Scared Monkeys Discussion Forum

Natalee Holloway => Shango/Simian and other Codetalkers => Topic started by: klaasend on June 03, 2008, 04:43:49 PM



Title: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: klaasend on June 03, 2008, 04:43:49 PM
Link to the last page of #3 here


http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2787.1960


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 03, 2008, 07:32:52 PM
Thought I would bring over a convo we had today in NCD (NAH) thread today about Freddy and his brother Ernesto.  Some interesting things in there that may be related to Shango in some way.

Link to page: http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2879.440


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Kermit on June 03, 2008, 08:23:00 PM
old info from my files, don't know if it is of any use for ya'll


finngirl11
Monkey Junkey
Joined: 31 Jul 2005
Location: Northern Utah
PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2005 4:47 am    Post subject:    Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

http://www.planethuff.com/darkside/archives/cat_the_vanishing_of_natalee_holloway.html
Official Charges on Freddy:
Intentionally distribute and show sexual images of a minor
Intercourse with someone he knows is unconscious

finngirl11
Monkey Junkey
Joined: 31 Jul 2005
Location: Northern Utah
   
PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2005 4:47 am    Post subject:    Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

http://www.planethuff.com/darkside/archives/cat_the_vanishing_of_natalee_holloway.html


Geraldo: Tell me about the young woman

Helen: She is a minor, so I won’t say anything about her. She has been involved in whatever the young man is being accused of right now sexual harassment..assault, whatever you want to call it. She is not the only one, the news we are getting right now is there are sex films and they have been selling them. I think it is a little bigger than even we expect as far as information I am getting right now.

Geraldo: Helen, do you know whether the authorities have seized the DVDs?

Helen: I don’t know that, they do have something, otherwise they would not have made these charges
http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/2005/08/28/transcripts-from-geraldo-sat-night-official-charges-against-freddie/
http://www.exposetheleft.com/2005/08/28/helenvinda/

Here is a fox news story about Freddy Arambatzis, note that photos are mentioned and not video. the girl was a minor, and I heard several comments about a video tape being sold around their circle of friends of this girl. Tickle site is down, he was locoman pimp.
http://tinyurl.com/gb627
http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/2006/04/28/aruba-natalee-holloway-comment-post-26/#comments

Simian Says:
June 29th, 2005 at 4:18 pm
4:29 post
JVDS and Kalpoes are involved in prostitution/drugs ring themselves, not just getting dope from the dealers



Sillymonkey Freddy and Jaime were listed on Joran's sites as his "best friends." Jaime is the one who some of the MB kids emailed after. When they asked about Natalee, he unleased a bunch of vile garbage and said she got what she deserved. I think the kids then read him the riot act and passed his emails along to the FBI.

Jamie is Columbian
Freddy is Venezulean

Frederick Jacinthus Arends of DVD Land & CD is his father?

The picture of Freddy's house, I know the address for the pic is 39F
but that is his mom's address on the chamber list for 2004.
Her address on the list as of 05/06/05 is Montanja 62.

So where was he residing when Natalee went missing and where does he currently live?


Arambatzis
ARAMBATZIS-RODRIGUEZ ALBERT     LILIAN REGINA     MONTANJA     39-F
http://www.arubachamber.com/DISKKLEINBEDRIJF31JULI2004.htm


#39-F Montana (Montanja), Noord

Freddy’s house:
7A Catiri (apartment)

MOm's address is: 62 Montana is ARAMBATZIS-RODRIGUEZ address in NOORD

http://209.157.64.201/focus/f-backroom/1471591/posts

http://www.immob.biz/?p=alles&id=927&lang=NL
http://www.google.com/search?q=ARAMBATZIS+aruba&hl=en&lr=&rls=GGLG,GGLG:2005-33,GGLG:en&tab=nw&ie=UTF-8&sa=N

T. J. Ward stated that Freddy lives behind Joran.

Adres: Montana 39F en 39G
MONTANA, ARUBA (ARUBA) Vraagprijs: € 221.000






Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 03, 2008, 08:35:41 PM
old info from my files, don't know if it is of any use for ya'll


finngirl11
Monkey Junkey
Joined: 31 Jul 2005
Location: Northern Utah
PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2005 4:47 am    Post subject:    Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

http://www.planethuff.com/darkside/archives/cat_the_vanishing_of_natalee_holloway.html
Official Charges on Freddy:
Intentionally distribute and show sexual images of a minor
Intercourse with someone he knows is unconscious

finngirl11
Monkey Junkey
Joined: 31 Jul 2005
Location: Northern Utah
   
PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2005 4:47 am    Post subject:    Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

http://www.planethuff.com/darkside/archives/cat_the_vanishing_of_natalee_holloway.html


Geraldo: Tell me about the young woman

Helen: She is a minor, so I won’t say anything about her. She has been involved in whatever the young man is being accused of right now sexual harassment..assault, whatever you want to call it. She is not the only one, the news we are getting right now is there are sex films and they have been selling them. I think it is a little bigger than even we expect as far as information I am getting right now.

Geraldo: Helen, do you know whether the authorities have seized the DVDs?

Helen: I don’t know that, they do have something, otherwise they would not have made these charges
http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/2005/08/28/transcripts-from-geraldo-sat-night-official-charges-against-freddie/
http://www.exposetheleft.com/2005/08/28/helenvinda/

Here is a fox news story about Freddy Arambatzis, note that photos are mentioned and not video. the girl was a minor, and I heard several comments about a video tape being sold around their circle of friends of this girl. Tickle site is down, he was locoman pimp.
http://tinyurl.com/gb627
http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/2006/04/28/aruba-natalee-holloway-comment-post-26/#comments

Simian Says:
June 29th, 2005 at 4:18 pm
4:29 post
JVDS and Kalpoes are involved in prostitution/drugs ring themselves, not just getting dope from the dealers



Sillymonkey Freddy and Jaime were listed on Joran's sites as his "best friends." Jaime is the one who some of the MB kids emailed after. When they asked about Natalee, he unleased a bunch of vile garbage and said she got what she deserved. I think the kids then read him the riot act and passed his emails along to the FBI.

Jamie is Columbian
Freddy is Venezulean

Frederick Jacinthus Arends of DVD Land & CD is his father?[/b]

The picture of Freddy's house, I know the address for the pic is 39F
but that is his mom's address on the chamber list for 2004.
Her address on the list as of 05/06/05 is Montanja 62.

So where was he residing when Natalee went missing and where does he currently live?


Arambatzis
ARAMBATZIS-RODRIGUEZ ALBERT     LILIAN REGINA     MONTANJA     39-F
http://www.arubachamber.com/DISKKLEINBEDRIJF31JULI2004.htm


#39-F Montana (Montanja), Noord

Freddy’s house:
7A Catiri (apartment)

MOm's address is: 62 Montana is ARAMBATZIS-RODRIGUEZ address in NOORD

http://209.157.64.201/focus/f-backroom/1471591/posts

http://www.immob.biz/?p=alles&id=927&lang=NL
http://www.google.com/search?q=ARAMBATZIS+aruba&hl=en&lr=&rls=GGLG,GGLG:2005-33,GGLG:en&tab=nw&ie=UTF-8&sa=N

T. J. Ward stated that Freddy lives behind Joran.

Adres: Montana 39F en 39G
MONTANA, ARUBA (ARUBA) Vraagprijs: € 221.000







I recall reading that one of Jossy’s niece was married to an Arends…Is this the one???????????


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 03, 2008, 09:54:43 PM


Quote Kermit…
Sillymonkey Freddy and Jaime were listed on Joran's sites as his "best friends." Jaime is the one who some of the MB kids emailed after. When they asked about Natalee, he unleased a bunch of vile garbage and said she got what she deserved. I think the kids then read him the riot act and passed his emails along to the FBI.Jamie is ColumbianFreddy is VenezuleanFrederick Jacinthus Arends of DVD Land & CD is his father?[/b]

Quote Mum
I recall reading that one of Jossy’s niece was married to an Arends…Is this the one???????????

Nope, wrong one! ::MonkeyWink::

« Reply #644 on: February 12, 2008, 03:23:54 PM »   
 

Quote from: Anna on February 12, 2008, 02:49:07 PM
And which one of the Max's is the nephew of Jossy?

I have forgotten.

.Quote from: klaasend on February 12, 2008, 02:56:40 PM
I don't know if either one is.   Where did you hear that info?

Quote Anna
Very early and I can't recall now but the mother of one is the sister or niece of Jossy.  I think it is the one who went to college in Florida.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 04, 2008, 05:20:41 AM
Good Morning COLUMBO and all the Tangoers... ::MonkeyWink::

This is the time period that I have always thought that Freddy was a suspect.  Included all the statement data that I think pertains to Steve or Freddy….and the FP posts about Freddy from before Simian's first post. Notice that there are NO statements from Freddy while Steve is a suspect!

Connie on June 17th, 2005 12:18 pm
From looking at the back of this guy that was brought in this morning, his size and hair, I honestly think it was that freddy guy in the pics with Joran and the Kalpoe brothers.

Checkme on June 17th, 2005 1:23 pm
Connie,
The guy this morning is not Dutch. The guy they brought in last night is. However, it looks like the not-Dutch guy is JvdS’s friend and the Dutch guy is the Kalpoe’s


Connie on June 17th, 2005 1:29 pm
Oh, thanks Check, then it is possible that the guy I was this morning was “Freddy” from the pics. I know initials were given, but right off hand I can’t remember what they were. and I’m too lazy to scroll up to see what it was. (lol)

Name: Steve Croes
Date: 15 June 2005 / 16:25
Pages: 3
Writer/Initiator: Luigi Croes
Description: witness statement 

Name: Freddy Alexander Arambatzis
Date: 16 June 2005115:30
Pages: 8
Writer/Initiator: Dennis Jacobs & Marcelino Ras
Description: witness statement

Name: Freddy Zedan
Date:17 Juni 2005
Pages: 6
Writer/Initiator: Dennis Jacobs, Eric Soemers
Description: witness statement

Name: Steve Croes
Date: 17 June 2005 / 07:40
Pages: 4
Writer/Initiator. Dennis Jacobs/Luigi Croes
Description: suspect interrogation
Responsive to Request 41

Simian on June 17th, 2005 5:08 pm - first post

Name: Steve Croes
Date: 21 June 2005 / 13:00
Pages: 5
Writer/Initiato: Shaniro Kelly / Clyde Burke
Description: interrogation of a suspect

Name: John Charles Croes
Date: 22 June 2005
Pages: 2
Writer/Initiator DENNIS JACOBS/LUIGI CROES
Description: Chat traffic

Name:Maria De Figaroa
Date: 22 June 2005 / 18:05
Pages: 2
Writer/Initiator. Giovanni Heyliger
Description: witness statement by a friend of Steve Croes

Name: Karen Martina
Date: 23 June 2005113:55
Pages: 6
Writer/Initiator: Dennis Jacobs / Juan Boezem
Description: witness statement by a friend of Van der Sloot and Arrambatzis

Name: Karen Martina
Date: 24 June 2005 / 13:50
Pages: 5
Writer/Initiator. Dennis Jacobs / Marcelino Ras
Description: witness statement

Name: Freddy Alexander Zedan Arambatzis
Date:28 June 2005 / 14:25
Pages: 11
Writer/Initiator: Shaniro Kelly & Haydee Nadal
Description: witness statement

Name: Lorenzo Van Rijn
Date: 28 June 2005 / 17:00
Pages: 2
Writer/Initiator: Giovanni Heyliger
Description: witness statement

Name: Carmen Aurora Jacopucci
Date: 28 June 2005 / 15:55
Pages: 6
Writer/Initiator: Dennis Jacobs /Marcelino Ras
Description: witness statement by a fried of Van der Sloot and Araambatzis

Name: John Charles Croes
Date: 28 June 2005
Pages: 3
Writer/Initiator: Johny Erasmus / Zoraida De Cuba
Description: Chat traffic

Name: Annie Vicenta Todd
Date: 28 June 2005
Pages: 1
Writer/Initiator: Ghrizanti Tromp & Dennis Jacobs
Description: witness pointing out an area of interest

Name: Annie Vicenta Todd
Date: 28 June 2005
Pages: 3
Writer/Initiator: Ghrizanti Tromp & Dennis Jacobs
Description: witness statement about a gray Toyota

Name: Rafael Solognier
Date: 30 June 2005 / 16:45
Pages: 1
Writer/Initiator: Omar Kelly
Description: Car search

Name: Zuriel Yagaray
Date: 29 June 2005 / 15:20
Pages: 3
Writer/Initiator: Shaniro Baidrik / Luigi Croes
Description: witness statement

Name: Julia Refno
Date: 30 June 2005 / 13:45
Pages: 3
Writer) nitiaton Omar Kelly
Description: witness statement

Name: Z.A Yarzagaray
Date: 30 June 2005 / 22:00
Pages: 4
Writer/Initiator: Luigi Croes / Shaniro Baldrik
Description: witness statement

Name: Z.A Yarzagaray
Date: 30 June 2005 / 22:00
Pages: 4
Writer/Initiator: Luigi Croes / Shaniro Baldrik
Description: witness statement

+ Name: Z.A Yarzagaray
Date: 1 July 2005 / 11:20
Pages: 2
Writer/Initiator: Shaniro Baldrik / Roland Tromp
Description: Car description

Name: Freddy Zedan Arrambatzis
Date: 1 July 2005
Pages: 9
Writer/Initiator: Dennis Jacobs & Haydee Azucena
Description: witness statement

Baboon Posted Jul 1, 10:38 AM - last post by Simian until Merian

Steve Croes will not be sacrificed…for Freddy?

Who said the alibi played for the Sloots

The other car





Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 04, 2008, 05:34:36 AM
Poor old Steve was even questioned in August when Freddy was supposedly arrested…This was the time that his mother called an American news station and said she was worried he was to be arrested again!  Steve said he was going to pick something up and that he had been exonerated.  The two law enforcement that took his statement are Dutch, from what I can tell, and it appears they didn't think he was exonerated! LOL

Name: Steve Croes
Date: 29 August 2005 / 9:15
Pages: 6
Writer/Initiator: A.R De Ruiter/ CJM Burgwal
Description: interrogation of a suspect

Somehow it appears that Freddy was not even questioned once during his stay in jail! There are statements from a girl who filed a compaint and some other pimps, but not from Freddy!

No-one saw Freddy being released…is it a coincidence that this series of events went down on Labor Day weekend…and Natalee disappeared on Memorial Day weekend…Hmmmm!!




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on June 04, 2008, 05:43:24 PM
Good Morning COLUMBO and all the Tangoers... ::MonkeyWink::

This is the time period that I have always thought that Freddy was a suspect.  Included all the statement data that I think pertains to Steve or Freddy….and the FP posts about Freddy from before Simian's first post. Notice that there are NO statements from Freddy while Steve is a suspect!

Connie on June 17th, 2005 12:18 pm
From looking at the back of this guy that was brought in this morning, his size and hair, I honestly think it was that freddy guy in the pics with Joran and the Kalpoe brothers.

Checkme on June 17th, 2005 1:23 pm
Connie,
The guy this morning is not Dutch. The guy they brought in last night is. However, it looks like the not-Dutch guy is JvdS’s friend and the Dutch guy is the Kalpoe’s


Connie on June 17th, 2005 1:29 pm
Oh, thanks Check, then it is possible that the guy I was this morning was “Freddy” from the pics. I know initials were given, but right off hand I can’t remember what they were. and I’m too lazy to scroll up to see what it was. (lol)

Name: Steve Croes
Date: 15 June 2005 / 16:25
Pages: 3
Writer/Initiator: Luigi Croes
Description: witness statement 

Name: Freddy Alexander Arambatzis
Date: 16 June 2005115:30
Pages: 8
Writer/Initiator: Dennis Jacobs & Marcelino Ras
Description: witness statement

Name: Freddy Zedan
Date:17 Juni 2005
Pages: 6
Writer/Initiator: Dennis Jacobs, Eric Soemers
Description: witness statement

Name: Steve Croes
Date: 17 June 2005 / 07:40
Pages: 4
Writer/Initiator. Dennis Jacobs/Luigi Croes
Description: suspect interrogation
Responsive to Request 41

Simian on June 17th, 2005 5:08 pm - first post

Name: Steve Croes
Date: 21 June 2005 / 13:00
Pages: 5
Writer/Initiato: Shaniro Kelly / Clyde Burke
Description: interrogation of a suspect

Name: John Charles Croes
Date: 22 June 2005
Pages: 2
Writer/Initiator DENNIS JACOBS/LUIGI CROES
Description: Chat traffic

Name:Maria De Figaroa
Date: 22 June 2005 / 18:05
Pages: 2
Writer/Initiator. Giovanni Heyliger
Description: witness statement by a friend of Steve Croes

Name: Karen Martina
Date: 23 June 2005113:55
Pages: 6
Writer/Initiator: Dennis Jacobs / Juan Boezem
Description: witness statement by a friend of Van der Sloot and Arrambatzis

Name: Karen Martina
Date: 24 June 2005 / 13:50
Pages: 5
Writer/Initiator. Dennis Jacobs / Marcelino Ras
Description: witness statement

Name: Freddy Alexander Zedan Arambatzis
Date:28 June 2005 / 14:25
Pages: 11
Writer/Initiator: Shaniro Kelly & Haydee Nadal
Description: witness statement

Name: Lorenzo Van Rijn
Date: 28 June 2005 / 17:00
Pages: 2
Writer/Initiator: Giovanni Heyliger
Description: witness statement

Name: Carmen Aurora Jacopucci
Date: 28 June 2005 / 15:55
Pages: 6
Writer/Initiator: Dennis Jacobs /Marcelino Ras
Description: witness statement by a fried of Van der Sloot and Araambatzis

Name: John Charles Croes
Date: 28 June 2005
Pages: 3
Writer/Initiator: Johny Erasmus / Zoraida De Cuba
Description: Chat traffic

Name: Annie Vicenta Todd
Date: 28 June 2005
Pages: 1
Writer/Initiator: Ghrizanti Tromp & Dennis Jacobs
Description: witness pointing out an area of interest

Name: Annie Vicenta Todd
Date: 28 June 2005
Pages: 3
Writer/Initiator: Ghrizanti Tromp & Dennis Jacobs
Description: witness statement about a gray Toyota

Name: Rafael Solognier
Date: 30 June 2005 / 16:45
Pages: 1
Writer/Initiator: Omar Kelly
Description: Car search

Name: Zuriel Yagaray
Date: 29 June 2005 / 15:20
Pages: 3
Writer/Initiator: Shaniro Baidrik / Luigi Croes
Description: witness statement

Name: Julia Refno
Date: 30 June 2005 / 13:45
Pages: 3
Writer) nitiaton Omar Kelly
Description: witness statement

Name: Z.A Yarzagaray
Date: 30 June 2005 / 22:00
Pages: 4
Writer/Initiator: Luigi Croes / Shaniro Baldrik
Description: witness statement

Name: Z.A Yarzagaray
Date: 30 June 2005 / 22:00
Pages: 4
Writer/Initiator: Luigi Croes / Shaniro Baldrik
Description: witness statement

+ Name: Z.A Yarzagaray
Date: 1 July 2005 / 11:20
Pages: 2
Writer/Initiator: Shaniro Baldrik / Roland Tromp
Description: Car description

Name: Freddy Zedan Arrambatzis
Date: 1 July 2005
Pages: 9
Writer/Initiator: Dennis Jacobs & Haydee Azucena
Description: witness statement

Baboon Posted Jul 1, 10:38 AM - last post by Simian until Merian

Steve Croes will not be sacrificed…for Freddy?

Who said the alibi played for the Sloots

The other car







in Shango there are no hidden suspects
he goes on to say that DH and the elder may not be crucified
Simian never mentions PVDS prior to the fifth
Simian never mentions the fifth after mentioning PVDS


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on June 04, 2008, 05:45:14 PM
also-elder had one, or two, cards up his sleeve that were played......could that be describing the exchange that was posted earlier re: 2 folks brought in, 1 dutch, 1 not dutch?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on June 04, 2008, 05:46:54 PM
1 card was kept hidden......(assuming) the other was not


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Kermit on June 04, 2008, 06:46:58 PM
"I took the camera to Freddy’s house.
We delivered the camera to Freddy, and afterwards all four of us ate Chinese in the area of Freddy’s house. Freddy also lives in Montanja."
(Satish Kalpoe Suspect Statement June 24, 2005.)

Zedan Arambatzis – age 21 in 2005
Joran met Freddy Zedan Arambatzis when Freddy was 19, they met during a tournament at the racquetball club. (source:p. 1 Jorans book)
Freddy is a light colored latino from Venezuela that only spoke papi. (source: p. 1 Joran's book)
Freddy's English sucked (source p. 5 Joran's book)
I am the best friend and neighbor of Joran. We got to know each other about two years ago.(source: June 12 Freddy's statement as written in Joran's book)
Freddy lives behind Joran.( D-6/11)

19 Montanja Joran van der Sloot
232 Montanja Jaime Carrasquilla
7A Catiri Freddy Zedan Arambatziz


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Kermit on June 04, 2008, 08:47:44 PM
Five members of the Aruban Mansur Family, viz. Mr. Elias F. Mansur, Mrs. Damia M. de Cuba-Mansur, Mr. Luis E. Mansur, Mr. Miguel J. Mansur and Mrs. Sarah E. Arends-Mansur, have raised objections against general references in the following chapter to the Mansurs or the Mansur family. In their opinion these references may be understood as including them and thereby implicating them in alleged wrongdoing they have never committed.
The author is of the opinion that such references to a large family will not be misunderstood as including each and every member of the family. However, in case this opinion should prove incorrect, the author points out that he regrets such misunderstanding and that he did not intend said references to implicate all members of the family.
Posted by: iquitos | Oct 25, 2005 12:55:56 AM

Eric Mansure’s sister-in-law is Jan van der Straaten’s secretary. (p.153 Holloway).

 Eduardo Mansur, co-founder of the Aruba Search and Rescue Foundation

Max Arrends mother is Sarah E. Arends-Mansur (sister or niece of Jossy Mansur)
ARENDS-MANSURSARAH ELIANA ADRIAAN LACLE BLVD. 16
MANSUR    JOSSY MEHSEN    IERLANDSTRAAT    10    ORANJESTAD
MANSUR    LUIS EMILIO    MALMOKWEG    22    NOORD


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 04, 2008, 11:39:46 PM
Thanks Kermie..you always have the answers we need.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 05, 2008, 08:08:19 AM
Which Max Arends are we talking about here? The one that was Joran's classmate or Lorenzo's friend?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 05, 2008, 08:30:46 AM
Which Max Arends are we talking about here? The one that was Joran's classmate or Lorenzo's friend?


Good Morning...I believe young Max...Bibbi's? son...the one scuba spoke to in the movie theater in Florida...I am checking on Sarah now as I thought I read she was 60 and I think that might make her Grandma! Not sure because I don't understand the name connections...and my logic tells me that their kids would be Mansur if she is Jossy's sister!

I thought Vanessa was Momma from previous discussions and pics and Poppa is Maximilon,sp....they are so darn connected!!!!

There is a pic of Sarah I saw the other day, I just have to find it again!

There is a Madeline with the names reversed which I think would make their kids Arends!!! Confused...Welcome to the new Shango thread!!!   ::MonkeyHaHa::





Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 05, 2008, 08:49:05 AM
Here is a pic of a Sara...they can't spell over there so it may be Sarah! Scroll down th the bottom og the page! It is about La Cabanarom July 2001...makes me think she is not Max's Mom!

I think Madeline's name is the same way around!!!

Vms....Help!!!...Pita....Help!....Please... ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyHaHa::

http://www.visitaruba.com/facts/newsdesk/backissues/newsletter50.html


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 05, 2008, 09:41:52 AM
Poor old Steve was even questioned in August when Freddy was supposedly arrested…This was the time that his mother called an American news station and said she was worried he was to be arrested again!  Steve said he was going to pick something up and that he had been exonerated.  The two law enforcement that took his statement are Dutch, from what I can tell, and it appears they didn't think he was exonerated! LOL

Name: Steve Croes
Date: 29 August 2005 / 9:15
Pages: 6
Writer/Initiator: A.R De Ruiter/ CJM Burgwal
Description: interrogation of a suspect

Somehow it appears that Freddy was not even questioned once during his stay in jail! There are statements from a girl who filed a compaint and some other pimps, but not from Freddy!

No-one saw Freddy being released…is it a coincidence that this series of events went down on Labor Day weekend…and Natalee disappeared on Memorial Day weekend…Hmmmm!!




Are you saying it's possible that Simian was trying to deflect away from Steve when he mentioned the 5th suspect?  I was after Steve's arrest and it looked as if he would take a big hit as being involved.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 05, 2008, 09:43:33 AM
Which Max Arends are we talking about here? The one that was Joran's classmate or Lorenzo's friend?


Good Morning...I believe young Max...Bibbi's? son...the one scuba spoke to in the movie theater in Florida...I am checking on Sarah now as I thought I read she was 60 and I think that might make her Grandma! Not sure because I don't understand the name connections...and my logic tells me that their kids would be Mansur if she is Jossy's sister!

I thought Vanessa was Momma from previous discussions and pics and Poppa is Maximilon,sp....they are so darn connected!!!!

There is a pic of Sarah I saw the other day, I just have to find it again!

There is a Madeline with the names reversed which I think would make their kids Arends!!! Confused...Welcome to the new Shango thread!!!   ::MonkeyHaHa::





Vanessa?  As in the poster Vanessa?  I am confused for sure. LOL


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: jackb on June 05, 2008, 11:16:19 AM
Poor old Steve was even questioned in August when Freddy was supposedly arrested…This was the time that his mother called an American news station and said she was worried he was to be arrested again!  Steve said he was going to pick something up and that he had been exonerated.  The two law enforcement that took his statement are Dutch, from what I can tell, and it appears they didn't think he was exonerated! LOL

Name: Steve Croes
Date: 29 August 2005 / 9:15
Pages: 6
Writer/Initiator: A.R De Ruiter/ CJM Burgwal
Description: interrogation of a suspect

Somehow it appears that Freddy was not even questioned once during his stay in jail! There are statements from a girl who filed a compaint and some other pimps, but not from Freddy!

No-one saw Freddy being released…is it a coincidence that this series of events went down on Labor Day weekend…and Natalee disappeared on Memorial Day weekend…Hmmmm!!




What I could pick up from "who said the alibi played for the Sloots..."
is that Steve by alibing NH was dropped off at the hotel was to alibi someone else....This would probbly alibi a lot of people as well as himself if NH returned to the hotel including Freddy who may have been  in the other car.  Now since Steve and GCV were friends, perhaps he along with everyone else was mainly alibiing Geofrey Cromvroit and himself by making sure everyone knew she was back at her hotel and not out where any of them had prevented her return.   That is how I read this, even though the question mark makes the reading more difficult.  That was pretty slick.   Jack b


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: vms on June 05, 2008, 11:46:51 AM
Here is a pic of a Sara...they can't spell over there so it may be Sarah! Scroll down th the bottom og the page! It is about La Cabanarom July 2001...makes me think she is not Max's Mom!

I think Madeline's name is the same way around!!!

Vms....Help!!!...Pita....Help!....Please... ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyHaHa::

http://www.visitaruba.com/facts/newsdesk/backissues/newsletter50.html


Exactly, Mum. Vanessa is Bibi's wife.


ARENDS-MANSUR, SARAH ELIANA
Residing in  ADRIAAN LACLE BLVD. 16, ORANJESTAD, ARUBA 
Born in  ARUBA on 24 AUGUST 1937




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: vms on June 05, 2008, 12:05:13 PM
ARENDS MAXIMILIANO FRANCISCO PALMITASTRAAT 1

ARENDS-CROES VANESSA YOLANDA PALMITASTRAAT 1

http://www.arubachamber.com/DISKKLEINBEDRIJF31JULI2004.htm


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 05, 2008, 12:30:45 PM
ARENDS MAXIMILIANO FRANCISCO PALMITASTRAAT 1

ARENDS-CROES VANESSA YOLANDA PALMITASTRAAT 1

http://www.arubachamber.com/DISKKLEINBEDRIJF31JULI2004.htm

Vanessa ARENDS-CROES  ::MonkeyShocked::

Thanks vms...I wonder...does Vanessa have any brothers, even sisters could get interesting!

I wonder who Max's cousins are?

I think everyone who is not directly from Holland is related down there, all the Arubans...by marriage somehow!!!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 05, 2008, 02:48:03 PM
Now is Vanessa related to Freddy? Is Bibbi related to Freddy?  I think I have names confused again.

What is Ernesto's full name?  Would that include an Arends? 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on June 05, 2008, 04:40:17 PM
Poor old Steve was even questioned in August when Freddy was supposedly arrested…This was the time that his mother called an American news station and said she was worried he was to be arrested again!  Steve said he was going to pick something up and that he had been exonerated.  The two law enforcement that took his statement are Dutch, from what I can tell, and it appears they didn't think he was exonerated! LOL

Name: Steve Croes
Date: 29 August 2005 / 9:15
Pages: 6
Writer/Initiator: A.R De Ruiter/ CJM Burgwal
Description: interrogation of a suspect

Somehow it appears that Freddy was not even questioned once during his stay in jail! There are statements from a girl who filed a compaint and some other pimps, but not from Freddy!

No-one saw Freddy being released…is it a coincidence that this series of events went down on Labor Day weekend…and Natalee disappeared on Memorial Day weekend…Hmmmm!!




What I could pick up from "who said the alibi played for the Sloots..."
is that Steve by alibing NH was dropped off at the hotel was to alibi someone else....This would probbly alibi a lot of people as well as himself if NH returned to the hotel including Freddy who may have been  in the other car.  Now since Steve and GCV were friends, perhaps he along with everyone else was mainly alibiing Geofrey Cromvroit and himself by making sure everyone knew she was back at her hotel and not out where any of them had prevented her return.   That is how I read this, even though the question mark makes the reading more difficult.  That was pretty slick.   Jack b


The elder had one or two cards up his sleeve
They have been played and lost
Will one of the cards sing

The fallen judge and the singing card are of the same hand, but it is dangerous for the Arawaks to play it, because everyone would hear, including the cowboys

The Arawaks may not need to play the singing card
The cowboys won’t hear the music and the teepees will be safe

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:53 pm
DirtyHand is the key
He walks with the elders
He walks in all houses
And he walked with the fallen elder
he was the hidden card that was played
now if he sings, babylon will fall on the arawak nation


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on June 05, 2008, 04:45:51 PM
fyi:


Billionaire Drug Bust

Broadcom's co-founder charged in tawdry narcotics indictment

JUNE 5--A technology billionaire was a drug fiend who trafficked in cocaine, Ecstasy, and methamphetamine, spiked the drinks of business associates and employees, hired prostitutes for himself and others, and maintained several narcotics dens, including one in an underground lair at his Los Angeles mansion, prosecutors charge. In a remarkable federal indictment unsealed today in Los Angeles, Broadcom co-founder Henry T. Nicholas III is portrayed as an out-of-control wild man who scored drug caches for Super Bowl parties and rock festivals and had his dealer invoice him for these illicit purchases. A copy of the felony drug conspiracy indictment against Nicholas, who is reportedly worth about $2 billion, can be found below. The 48-year-old Nicholas, who was charged with securities fraud in a separate U.S. District Court case, allegedly "used threats of physical violence and death and payments of money to attempt to conceal his unlawful conduct," according to the indictment. Prosecutors allege that, in June 2002, Nicholas and Broadcom entered into a $1 million settlement agreement with an employee who was aware of the executive's "unlawful narcotics activity." The hefty payout, which Broadcom covered, contractually prevented the employee from speaking about Nicholas's drug abuse. The billionaire apparently did little to conceal his drug transactions. On one occasion, in the lobby of Broadcom's southern California headquarters, he directed an employee to provide cash to a courier "in exchange for an envelope containing controlled substances," the indictment charges. On a drug-fueled 2001 private plane flight--during which Nicholas allegedly used and distributed narcotics--the pilot was forced to don an oxygen mask due to the "marijuana smoke and fumes." According to a March 2008 Forbes story, Nicholas, with an estimated net worth of $1.8 billion, is ranked 677 on the list of the world's wealthiest individuals.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on June 05, 2008, 05:39:06 PM
come to think of it......he really fouled the air for all nearby-on that plane


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Silverfox on June 05, 2008, 09:37:49 PM
"Dirty Hand" in Context...

Ok.. so I take some heat for even trying to possibly connect the dots between the Shango reference to "Dirty Hand" and Jossy Mansur...

And I detect it did go above the heads of some... so sorry for that...

I really doubt that Shango was trying to "indict" Dirty Hand as being a bad guy... I never really felt that that assumption. But I do feel the argument does fit, hypothetically, of course...

Lala's -- i believe it is in the last Shango Thread that it was reported that the Mansur family owns over 50% of the entire island...

Jossy's position in his business as publisher of a newspaper puts him unique to learn all sorts of things -- some printable, some not.

it is easy to blame the US 4th estate (As Mas and others have done) for interfering in an investigation...

But what if a local 4th Estate in Aruba, for example, gets so close to things politically and economically that their hands become dirty just through association and "withheld information" and reporting. 

It happens all over the world.  But really, if one were to look over all that jossy's newspaper has been involved with since the beginning of this case -- it does make one wonder.

And what if Shango was in a position to know this.  To know that the Aruban 4th Estate had the information and knew all along about what went on behind the scenes (whether it be a political back room or a history of wild drugged up sex assaults by island elite) -- then wouldn't Shango possibly reference such activity as a dirty hand?

Dirty Hand is a Methaphor -- Shango spoke in all sorts of metaphors  ....

Clear back in 1840 Thomas Dequincy rote this:

Quote
DeQuincy marks for us, it should be noted, an important philosophical difference, one drawing on a Kantian vocabulary implicitly tuned to such concepts as subjectively- and objectively-defined pursuits — that is, those drawn between ordinary common sense on the one hand, and modern science on the other: wherein a topic like "dirty hands" is considered metaphorically stylish in literature, but methodologically not in science. Although I admit it is a helpful distinction, I would add, too, it is indifferently spelled, in either case, "dirty hands" — and so may model, explicitly, like my italicized words, a slipperier, still more important truth.

My point turns on DeQuincy's common, but I think too-simplistic assumption that

   
Quote
a man who has absolute facts to communicate from some branch of study external to himself . . . is careless of style; or at least he may be so . . . for what he has to communicate neither readily admits, nor much needs, any graces in the mode of communication; the matter transcends and oppresses the manner. The matter tells without any manner at all.  -- http://www.yougotstyle.org/archives/000013.html (http://www.yougotstyle.org/archives/000013.html) 

Could it be that Shango felt that Jossy (and others) was in a position to know eactly what went on and what was going on and by association with that knowledge alone made him an accessory (not in the sense of being criminal but in the ense of just knowing but choosing not to report it)?

I like Jossy -- but for me the jury is still out because of the immense power he and his family hold on this island of disinformation.  He fits the model well if you go back and start to substitute his name for Dirty Hand in the Shango references.... try it... maybe I'm wrong, but it is the hisotry of the past which builds the foundation of the present and from what i can see the foundation is very weak.  Too much bad stuff with the mansur family as a whole has been reported...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Silverfox on June 05, 2008, 09:50:55 PM

The elder had one or two cards up his sleeve
They have been played and lost
Will one of the cards sing

The fallen judge and the singing card are of the same hand, but it is dangerous for the Arawaks to play it, because everyone would hear, including the cowboys

The Arawaks may not need to play the singing card
The cowboys won’t hear the music and the teepees will be safe

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:53 pm
"Jossy" is the key
He walks with the elders (Newspaper publisher, reporter, political advisor)
He walks in all houses (newspapers are read by and influence all, rich and poor)
And he walked with the fallen elder (Croes -- because of his economic and political position had to have known him)
he was the hidden card that was played
now if he sings, babylon will fall on the arawak nation (If he publishes what he knows the world, as Aruba knows it will end)


Remember, the current economic situation in Aruba effects his pocketbook too...

Politically his hands may be tied because he still lacks the clout in their parliament to protect his interests if hell is unleashed in the form of public disclosure of all the corruption and cover-up.  If you are an insider like Shango aludes to be you might feel that the 4th estate really does have "Dirty Hands".

The population of Aruba and island size is way to small ... Everyone knows everyone else and has something on everyone else -- but few are in the position to really report the truth to the masses and the world...

Yes, if Jossy were to sing Aruba would be shut down...IMHO


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on June 05, 2008, 10:08:22 PM
come to think of it......he really fouled the air for all nearby-on that plane

Are you talking about Henry T. Nicholas III, Dirty Hand, the hidden card?????  (on that plane, literally had me thinking of the man on the MB plane)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 05, 2008, 10:11:42 PM
I see Silverfox has paid us another visit!
 
Jossy knows! Freddy knows!
 
It seems there are quite a few who know just how things are on Aruba!
It has been very enlightening trying to unravel the riddles!  ::MonkeyWink::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 05, 2008, 10:16:07 PM
come to think of it......he really fouled the air for all nearby-on that plane

Are you talking about Henry T. Nicholas III, Dirty Hand, the hidden card?????  (on that plane, literally had me thinking of the man on the MB plane)

Hi 2NJSons...Now I will never sleep! I was going to reread in the morning and respond!

Had forgotten all about that guy! I wonder where he was from and what happened to him!!!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Silverfox on June 05, 2008, 10:16:23 PM
I see Silverfox has paid us another visit!
 
Jossy knows! Freddy knows!
 
It seems there are quite a few who know just how things are on Aruba!
It has been very enlightening trying to unravel the riddles!  ::MonkeyWink::


LOL  I don't know anything about Freddy -- but really, there is enough history about Jossy and his family to make such a leap -- hypothetically, of course...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Silverfox on June 05, 2008, 10:22:43 PM
I see Silverfox has paid us another visit!
 
Jossy knows! Freddy knows!
 
It seems there are quite a few who know just how things are on Aruba!
It has been very enlightening trying to unravel the riddles!  ::MonkeyWink::

excellent little article here:

http://www.hyscience.com/archives/2005/10/harrytho_1017_e.php (http://www.hyscience.com/archives/2005/10/harrytho_1017_e.php)

Quote
The Interbank is owned by the Mansur Family. If anybody owns 60 per cent of the island, it is this powerful family.

Jossy Mansur is the owner and chief editor of the biggest newspaper on the island, "Diario". ""When I read an article in Diario, I know what will be the next action of the government","says Hendrik Croes, adding that the Mansurs create a climate of fear and intimidation on Aruba. Their newspapers force others off the market. Furthermore, ""their annual income is bigger than the yearly budget of the government.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 05, 2008, 10:30:33 PM
I see Silverfox has paid us another visit!
 
Jossy knows! Freddy knows!
 
It seems there are quite a few who know just how things are on Aruba!
It has been very enlightening trying to unravel the riddles!  ::MonkeyWink::

excellent little article here:

http://www.hyscience.com/archives/2005/10/harrytho_1017_e.php (http://www.hyscience.com/archives/2005/10/harrytho_1017_e.php)

Quote
The Interbank is owned by the Mansur Family. If anybody owns 60 per cent of the island, it is this powerful family.

Jossy Mansur is the owner and chief editor of the biggest newspaper on the island, "Diario". ""When I read an article in Diario, I know what will be the next action of the government","says Hendrik Croes, adding that the Mansurs create a climate of fear and intimidation on Aruba. Their newspapers force others off the market. Furthermore, ""their annual income is bigger than the yearly budget of the government.


I had to chuckle when I read that Oduber had people protesting with Boycott Diario signs in 1991, when he didn't like what Jossy was writing in his paper about him and his party!   ::MonkeyHaHa::

Goodnight!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Silverfox on June 05, 2008, 10:33:39 PM
And another tidbit:

Quote
In the way of background, on October 5, 2005, Jossy Mansur, the editor of the Diario newspaper, opined that the racial problems in investigation of missing Alabama teen, Natalee Holloway, were between the Dutch and the Arubans. See 1 -- "The principal suspect is Dutch, the lead investigator was Dutch, the prosecutor is Dutch and the five judges involved are Dutch. If you think about it, an attempted boycott against Aruba is unjust, because it is misdirected and won't achieve the desired results."

Jossy Mansur is considered the godfather of the Arubanese Volks Partij (AVP).

http://www.hyscience.com/archives/2005/10/harrytho_1023_n.php (http://www.hyscience.com/archives/2005/10/harrytho_1023_n.php)

All of you have heard this all before -- but really, just go back and look at the Dirty Hand references from Shango and visualize he is talking about Jossy and his family -- put into context the information which already exists...

from the same page:

Quote
Update [hat tip - George( comments below)] : For confirmation that the Mansur clan has dirty hands in drug trafficking, money laundering and worse, look at their connections to terrorism, such as with Hezbollah:

    (...) According to El Espectador, Mohamed Ali Farhad has been linked to a money laundering investigation that involved the Aruba-based Mansur clan of Eric and Alexander Mansur, who controlled cigarette smuggling in the 1990s through the Mansur Free Zone Trading Company N.V., with its main offices in the Netherlands Antilles. 120 The Mansurs inherited a smuggling and drug trafficking empire established in the islands by the Cosa Nostra's Cuntrera-Caruana clan, when it began to work in Venezuela with Cali Cartel organizations.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: vms on June 05, 2008, 11:17:55 PM
Ernesto Arambatzis

Nicola Siervo wants an affluent, New York style party populated by models, photographers and other members of the modeling industry for his Monday and Friday night parties at the Metro Kitchen and Bar in the Astor. Who do you hire to promote the party? Answer: someone who has experience in both the nightlife and production arenas: Ernesto Arambatzis.

Ernesto started his career under the wings of Chris Paciello, Ingrid Casareas, and Gerry Kelly, working as the “fashion director” for Bar Room and Shadow Lounge. Then he took a break and became a men’s model booker for Ford Model’s “new faces” section. 

Well, break’s over. Besides the Monday and Friday gig at Metro, he also promotes the already popular Sky Bar at the Shore Club on Saturdays and the newly opened restro-lounge Sabor on Thursdays. He also plans to promote the Pure Lounge above Joia—once its completed that is.

“I love the whole restaurant and lounge thing,” he says. “I have free dinners almost every night.”
http://www.miamisunpost.com/archives/2003/01-23-03/firststoryfrontpage.htm

********************

Unmade Man
Chris Paciello owned two of Miami's hottest clubs and hung out with Ingrid Casares, Jennifer Lopez, and Madonna. A murder charge scattered his A-list pals -- but his gangster vibe is part of what drew them in the first place.

By Robert Kolker & Ethan Brown Published Apr 10, 2000

<snipped>

On December 1, as the culmination of an organized-crime investigation that stretched back at least to 1997, Chris Paciello surrendered to a U.S. Marshal a week after being indicted for a 1993 murder in Staten Island. Since then, prosecutors have claimed in court -- but not yet formally charged -- that Paciello burned down his first Miami club for the insurance money, permitted drug-dealing at Liquid, and tried to intimidate and sabotage three of his competitors. (New York has also learned that he still employs Robert Gordon, described during Limelight owner Peter Gatien's drug trial as a major ecstasy dealer in the early nineties.)

Federal prosecutor James Walden has said in court that a Florida Department of Law Enforcement investigation into the clubs' finances revealed circumstantial evidence of money laundering -- reported profits that are grossly out of proportion with inventory purchases. And though Paciello told a friend last fall that the rumors about his mob connections were spread by people who were "f***ing jealous," his co-defendants in the indictment are all accused of having connections to the Bonanno crime family. The road to trial promises to be bumpy: Just last week, Walden revealed that security guards found marijuana and a partially empty box of .40 caliber bullets hidden in the Staten Island house where Paciello is, by court order, supposed to be monitored 24 hours a day.
http://nymag.com/nymetro/news/crimelaw/features/2758/

********************

Goon Over Miami, Part 3
If Chris Paciello returns to South Beach, he'll find his empire in shambles and local cops hungry to arrest him


By Tristram Korten
Published on March 30, 2000

Article mentions marketing manager Troy Parsons.
http://www.miaminewtimes.com/2000-03-30/news/goon-over-miami-part-3

********************

Ocean DriveMagazine
In association with Gerry Kelly and Noah Lazes Presents:
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The New Wednesday Night@Vivid
Hosted by Troy Parsons & Ernesto Arambatzis
Wednesday June 7th 2000 10PM
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RSVP For Complimentary <A HREF="http://www.clubplanet.com/guestlists/" TARGET="_blank">Guest List</A> 305.695.9299
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http://bbs.clubplanet.com/miami/3252-vivid-nightclub.html


Bar Room Owner Stays Behind Bars
http://www.ganglandnews.com/column157.htm

Club Owner Pleads Guilty in Mob Murder Case
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9806E5DF133FF937A25753C1A9669C8B63

http://blogs.herald.com/scene_in_the_tropics/miami_vice/index.html


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on June 05, 2008, 11:19:17 PM
come to think of it......he really fouled the air for all nearby-on that plane

Are you talking about Henry T. Nicholas III, Dirty Hand, the hidden card?????  (on that plane, literally had me thinking of the man on the MB plane)

Hi 2NJSons...Now I will never sleep! I was going to reread in the morning and respond!

Had forgotten all about that guy! I wonder where he was from and what happened to him!!!

I looked him up....he's from CA....he's still a billionaire, as far as I can tell.. ::MonkeyWink:: ::MonkeyConfused:: ::MonkeyTongue:: ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on June 06, 2008, 12:45:35 AM
come to think of it......he really fouled the air for all nearby-on that plane

Are you talking about Henry T. Nicholas III, Dirty Hand, the hidden card?????  (on that plane, literally had me thinking of the man on the MB plane)

Hi 2NJSons...Now I will never sleep! I was going to reread in the morning and respond!

Had forgotten all about that guy! I wonder where he was from and what happened to him!!!

I looked him up....he's from CA....he's still a billionaire, as far as I can tell.. ::MonkeyWink:: ::MonkeyConfused:: ::MonkeyTongue:: ::MonkeyHaHa::

oops, Mum....I was talking about Nicholas...not necessarily the man on the MB plane....but then, COLOMBO may have been speaking of another 'plane'....that's the rub...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 06, 2008, 06:01:20 AM
come to think of it......he really fouled the air for all nearby-on that plane

Are you talking about Henry T. Nicholas III, Dirty Hand, the hidden card?????  (on that plane, literally had me thinking of the man on the MB plane)

Hi 2NJSons...Now I will never sleep! I was going to reread in the morning and respond!

Had forgotten all about that guy! I wonder where he was from and what happened to him!!!

I looked him up....he's from CA....he's still a billionaire, as far as I can tell.. ::MonkeyWink:: ::MonkeyConfused:: ::MonkeyTongue:: ::MonkeyHaHa::

oops, Mum....I was talking about Nicholas...not necessarily the man on the MB plane....but then, COLOMBO may have been speaking of another 'plane'....that's the rub...

Good Morning!...It is going to take me all day just to get through these 2 pages! Hang on...all day to decipher COLUMBO'S posts!

And then the man from the plane. IIRC he sat next to Natalee on the way down and seems they couldn't locate him afterwards?

Vms ... ::MonkeyEek::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Rob on June 06, 2008, 08:08:19 AM
Johan - these are Jossy's two houses in Doral Florida
(http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p149/Morgan2112_2006/JOSSYMANSUR6.jpg)

notice the golf course. I think this is the Doral Golf Course and part of the PGA tour.

I remember that Simian says he has a handicap of twelve (12) - that means he shoots about 84 on a regular basis. He's a decent golfer.

California light house and Tierra Del Sol
(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n216/ja1me84/Aruba%20Ariba/DSCF0537.jpg)

Carpe's bucket
(http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g130/arubapictures1/dgfgd.png)

and then there are these - from Carpe -
(http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g130/arubapictures1/uuii.png)

cops at the Tierra Del Sol as filmed in Aru-Bay video
(http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g130/arubapictures1/gfgfgf.png)







Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: johan555 on June 06, 2008, 08:16:13 AM
Oh that is interesting Rob !

"I remember that Simian says he has a handicap of twelve (12) - that means he shoots about 84 on a regular basis. He's a decent golfer."

do you have the S&S  IP's  ?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Rob on June 06, 2008, 08:30:24 AM
do you have the S&S  IP's  ?


posters aren't supposed to have that type of info.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 06, 2008, 08:35:35 AM
I posted these in the other thread…hints on Shango and Simian.

Rob…are we going to give Gabe a hard time today , since we know he was in cahoots with Tamara Waldron as early as June 5th.?  Maybe some might like to see where he lives…LOL… Maybe I should check the phone book...what is he going to do...call LE...the FBI...paybacks are sweet!!!!

Reply #1924 on: May 31, 2008, 08:52:46 AM »Mum   
 
Simian hints – added to Blonde’s post from another thread, Thanks Blonde, hoping we can nail down who Armin was getting his info from.

Please feel free to add and edit…

« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2008, 04:52:21 PM »Blonde    
 
Simian hints
I am from Aruba
I have taken a tour of the facility
So have everybody in my gradutating class at Colegio Arubano who wanted to participate.

I am from a European family that migrated in the late 1700’s.
 
 Has a friend who is a owner of a restaurant The comments I posted was from a restaurant owner friend of mine.
 I have been to C&C
Have taken girls there myself, but in cars

.
PS it is 149. Ivy cualified The Simian has an IQ of 149 as measured by Gringos
The Simian belongs to an Aruban society much like “Skull & Bones” -The origin of the Skull & Bones Society, once known as The Brotherhood of Death, in the U.S. begins at Yale when a group of men established an organization for the purpose of drug smuggling.
The Simian doesn’t make predictions. Only gives the group information ahead of time he only reports ahead of time. The clues were solely to avoid implicating sources
The man on the inside will call soon
Joran and The Kalpoes are at the Main Police Office right now
Fxxx the poetry. The Simian is a frenchman. Blue blood if you should know. Today anyone can be called a blue blood if he or she is of noble birth, a member of hight society, and so on.
Knows Shango, knows Shock me, knows Checkme
Th Simian’s umbilical is buried close to the heart of the island
The Simian has a handicap of 12
We smoke Nederweed. Genetically enigineered
I am American too. Just a South American
The real Simian would never write like that
"Crack a book sometime........"
That is the information in the circles and in the press in Aruba
Ik ben rustig hoor, maar sommige dingen moeten gewoon gezegd worden –languages?Understands the law
Double posts
Posted from Aruba
Posted under other nics

My hints to Shango…Simian posts below may give us some insight as to Shango is? Again, please feel free to add and edit!

Posted from Florida
Posted under other nics
Disguised himself as a woman at times
Had a bone to pick

Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
Shango cannot understand PAPIAMENTO, otheriwse he would have already taken notice that he has been pinged.
If you really know more, you should spent the 8 days in jail eating peanut butter on stale bread with some cold tea. Just like Steve Croes

Shango, whenever you think you can get on the inside of the real Aruban society give me a sign, you probably were picking up the trash.
You have been pinged. Bai drumi! Ta laat caba.
Posted Jun 28, 2:53 AM







Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: johan555 on June 06, 2008, 08:42:03 AM
I know but who told you that this  is the shango  area ?
Iv heard shango lives in the usa and simmian in Aruba


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Rob on June 06, 2008, 08:45:16 AM
Knows Shango, knows Shock me, knows Checkme

Good Morning Mum, in my opinion this is part of the key.

He tells us he knows these posters, but maybe not intimately, knows their real identities.

Check me - 'roobagoogle translation - 'I get the marching orders, and disperse it' - so check with me first.

We could assume that Shango knows Check me, but we can not say for 100% because he does say that - at east that I'm aware.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Rob on June 06, 2008, 08:46:12 AM
I know but who told you that this  is the shango  area ?
Iv heard shango lives in the usa and simmian in Aruba

Grande says so.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 06, 2008, 08:54:03 AM
Knows Shango, knows Shock me, knows Checkme

Good Morning Mum, in my opinion this is part of the key.

He tells us he knows these posters, but maybe not intimately, knows their real identities.

Check me - 'roobagoogle translation - 'I get the marching orders, and disperse it' - so check with me first.

We could assume that Shango knows Check me, but we can not say for 100% because he does say that - at east that I'm aware.


Morning Rob...Shockthemonkey posting from Jacksonville IIRC...always uses 'we' as if in Aruba and a part of everything...morphed from another poster...I think some-one was feeding Shock posts!
Check me...your translation is interesting...sounds like feeding the press...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 06, 2008, 08:58:06 AM
Knows Shango, knows Shock me, knows Checkme

Good Morning Mum, in my opinion this is part of the key.

He tells us he knows these posters, but maybe not intimately, knows their real identities.

Check me - 'roobagoogle translation - 'I get the marching orders, and disperse it' - so check with me first.

We could assume that Shango knows Check me, but we can not say for 100% because he does say that - at east that I'm aware.


I am going to think a little more on your Check me...I am not familiar enough with the posts! ALE, Government or Press, anything else!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 06, 2008, 09:48:53 AM
Shango and Dirty Hand can not be the same person? 
Shango posted at what times?
Simian knew Shango and the others.
Simian was on Aruba and claims that he could get Shango put in prison?
Now think about that...

Good Morning monkeys.  ::MonkeyCool::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 06, 2008, 09:50:08 AM
Oh I forgot the most important part.....

CONTEXT!!!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 06, 2008, 10:06:50 AM
I know but who told you that this  is the shango  area ?
Iv heard shango lives in the usa and simmian in Aruba

Grande says so.


Rob......I put that around Highland Lakes. Remember NOT a mappie! Do you have any idea how Grande came to his conclusion? Have gone back and read some of posts, thought it might be quicker to ask you first!...TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Rob on June 06, 2008, 11:24:41 AM
I know but who told you that this  is the shango  area ?
Iv heard shango lives in the usa and simmian in Aruba

Grande says so.


Rob......I put that around Highland Lakes. Remember NOT a mappie! Do you have any idea how Grande came to his conclusion? Have gone back and read some of posts, thought it might be quicker to ask you first!...TIA

Mum, I guess he got it from the site meter when Shango and Simian were posting on the FP. When I get my laptop back - I'll send him and email and ask how he knew.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 06, 2008, 11:36:36 AM
Ernesto Arambatzis

Nicola Siervo wants an affluent, New York style party populated by models, photographers and other members of the modeling industry for his Monday and Friday night parties at the Metro Kitchen and Bar in the Astor. Who do you hire to promote the party? Answer: someone who has experience in both the nightlife and production arenas: Ernesto Arambatzis.

Ernesto started his career under the wings of Chris Paciello, Ingrid Casareas, and Gerry Kelly, working as the “fashion director” for Bar Room and Shadow Lounge. Then he took a break and became a men’s model booker for Ford Model’s “new faces” section. 

Well, break’s over. Besides the Monday and Friday gig at Metro, he also promotes the already popular Sky Bar at the Shore Club on Saturdays and the newly opened restro-lounge Sabor on Thursdays. He also plans to promote the Pure Lounge above Joia—once its completed that is.

“I love the whole restaurant and lounge thing,” he says. “I have free dinners almost every night.”
http://www.miamisunpost.com/archives/2003/01-23-03/firststoryfrontpage.htm

********************

Unmade Man
Chris Paciello owned two of Miami's hottest clubs and hung out with Ingrid Casares, Jennifer Lopez, and Madonna. A murder charge scattered his A-list pals -- but his gangster vibe is part of what drew them in the first place.

By Robert Kolker & Ethan Brown Published Apr 10, 2000

<snipped>

On December 1, as the culmination of an organized-crime investigation that stretched back at least to 1997, Chris Paciello surrendered to a U.S. Marshal a week after being indicted for a 1993 murder in Staten Island. Since then, prosecutors have claimed in court -- but not yet formally charged -- that Paciello burned down his first Miami club for the insurance money, permitted drug-dealing at Liquid, and tried to intimidate and sabotage three of his competitors. (New York has also learned that he still employs Robert Gordon, described during Limelight owner Peter Gatien's drug trial as a major ecstasy dealer in the early nineties.)

Federal prosecutor James Walden has said in court that a Florida Department of Law Enforcement investigation into the clubs' finances revealed circumstantial evidence of money laundering -- reported profits that are grossly out of proportion with inventory purchases. And though Paciello told a friend last fall that the rumors about his mob connections were spread by people who were "f***ing jealous," his co-defendants in the indictment are all accused of having connections to the Bonanno crime family. The road to trial promises to be bumpy: Just last week, Walden revealed that security guards found marijuana and a partially empty box of .40 caliber bullets hidden in the Staten Island house where Paciello is, by court order, supposed to be monitored 24 hours a day.
http://nymag.com/nymetro/news/crimelaw/features/2758/

********************

Goon Over Miami, Part 3
If Chris Paciello returns to South Beach, he'll find his empire in shambles and local cops hungry to arrest him


By Tristram Korten
Published on March 30, 2000

Article mentions marketing manager Troy Parsons.
http://www.miaminewtimes.com/2000-03-30/news/goon-over-miami-part-3

********************

Ocean DriveMagazine
In association with Gerry Kelly and Noah Lazes Presents:
ELEVATE
The New Wednesday Night@Vivid
Hosted by Troy Parsons & Ernesto Arambatzis
Wednesday June 7th 2000 10PM
Complimentary Bar 10-11pm
RSVP For Complimentary <A HREF="http://www.clubplanet.com/guestlists/" TARGET="_blank">Guest List</A> 305.695.9299
Vivid
743 Washington Avenue
Miami Beach, FL 33139
VIP Table Reservations 305.695.9033 www.vividnightclub.com
http://bbs.clubplanet.com/miami/3252-vivid-nightclub.html


Bar Room Owner Stays Behind Bars
http://www.ganglandnews.com/column157.htm

Club Owner Pleads Guilty in Mob Murder Case
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9806E5DF133FF937A25753C1A9669C8B63

http://blogs.herald.com/scene_in_the_tropics/miami_vice/index.html

Thanks for this info...what do we know about the whereabouts of this Chris guy now?  Also, wondering how Ernesto came to be in Miami?  Do they have places in Venezuela that would have given him the opportunity to expand a business or was it connections that brought him here? 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Rob on June 06, 2008, 11:41:15 AM
not yet sure if his is our girl... still looking

TAMARA WALDRON
1505 NW 91ST AVE
CORAL SPRINGS, FL 33071
(954) 752-4612


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Rob on June 06, 2008, 11:44:23 AM
not yet sure if his is our girl... still looking

TAMARA WALDRON
1505 NW 91ST AVE
CORAL SPRINGS, FL 33071
(954) 752-4612

slightly north of Fort Lauderdale. I'll add this to the google earth map later and if we can find out more about this person.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Rob on June 06, 2008, 11:47:17 AM
not yet sure if his is our girl... still looking

TAMARA WALDRON
1505 NW 91ST AVE
CORAL SPRINGS, FL 33071
(954) 752-4612

slightly north of Fort Lauderdale. I'll add this to the google earth map later and if we can find out more about this person.

I see there appears to be 17 sex offenders in the area (that doesn't really matter in this instance, but just mentioning it) and this person appears to be about 44 years old.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: vms on June 06, 2008, 12:02:33 PM
Ernesto Arambatzis

Nicola Siervo wants an affluent, New York style party populated by models, photographers and other members of the modeling industry for his Monday and Friday night parties at the Metro Kitchen and Bar in the Astor. Who do you hire to promote the party? Answer: someone who has experience in both the nightlife and production arenas: Ernesto Arambatzis.

Ernesto started his career under the wings of Chris Paciello, Ingrid Casareas, and Gerry Kelly, working as the “fashion director” for Bar Room and Shadow Lounge. Then he took a break and became a men’s model booker for Ford Model’s “new faces” section. 

Well, break’s over. Besides the Monday and Friday gig at Metro, he also promotes the already popular Sky Bar at the Shore Club on Saturdays and the newly opened restro-lounge Sabor on Thursdays. He also plans to promote the Pure Lounge above Joia—once its completed that is.

“I love the whole restaurant and lounge thing,” he says. “I have free dinners almost every night.”
http://www.miamisunpost.com/archives/2003/01-23-03/firststoryfrontpage.htm

********************

Unmade Man
Chris Paciello owned two of Miami's hottest clubs and hung out with Ingrid Casares, Jennifer Lopez, and Madonna. A murder charge scattered his A-list pals -- but his gangster vibe is part of what drew them in the first place.

By Robert Kolker & Ethan Brown Published Apr 10, 2000

<snipped>

On December 1, as the culmination of an organized-crime investigation that stretched back at least to 1997, Chris Paciello surrendered to a U.S. Marshal a week after being indicted for a 1993 murder in Staten Island. Since then, prosecutors have claimed in court -- but not yet formally charged -- that Paciello burned down his first Miami club for the insurance money, permitted drug-dealing at Liquid, and tried to intimidate and sabotage three of his competitors. (New York has also learned that he still employs Robert Gordon, described during Limelight owner Peter Gatien's drug trial as a major ecstasy dealer in the early nineties.)

Federal prosecutor James Walden has said in court that a Florida Department of Law Enforcement investigation into the clubs' finances revealed circumstantial evidence of money laundering -- reported profits that are grossly out of proportion with inventory purchases. And though Paciello told a friend last fall that the rumors about his mob connections were spread by people who were "f***ing jealous," his co-defendants in the indictment are all accused of having connections to the Bonanno crime family. The road to trial promises to be bumpy: Just last week, Walden revealed that security guards found marijuana and a partially empty box of .40 caliber bullets hidden in the Staten Island house where Paciello is, by court order, supposed to be monitored 24 hours a day.
http://nymag.com/nymetro/news/crimelaw/features/2758/

********************

Goon Over Miami, Part 3
If Chris Paciello returns to South Beach, he'll find his empire in shambles and local cops hungry to arrest him


By Tristram Korten
Published on March 30, 2000

Article mentions marketing manager Troy Parsons.
http://www.miaminewtimes.com/2000-03-30/news/goon-over-miami-part-3

********************

Ocean DriveMagazine
In association with Gerry Kelly and Noah Lazes Presents:
ELEVATE
The New Wednesday Night@Vivid
Hosted by Troy Parsons & Ernesto Arambatzis
Wednesday June 7th 2000 10PM
Complimentary Bar 10-11pm
RSVP For Complimentary <A HREF="http://www.clubplanet.com/guestlists/" TARGET="_blank">Guest List</A> 305.695.9299
Vivid
743 Washington Avenue
Miami Beach, FL 33139
VIP Table Reservations 305.695.9033 www.vividnightclub.com
http://bbs.clubplanet.com/miami/3252-vivid-nightclub.html


Bar Room Owner Stays Behind Bars
http://www.ganglandnews.com/column157.htm

Club Owner Pleads Guilty in Mob Murder Case
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9806E5DF133FF937A25753C1A9669C8B63

http://blogs.herald.com/scene_in_the_tropics/miami_vice/index.html

Ingrid Casares partner of Chris Paciello.



Three’s Company

Three South Beach Industry Veterans Team Up to Form Company

“Everyone is hitting on us and we love it.” – Tommy Pooch

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a398/vms58/IngridCasares.jpg)
Alan Roth, Ingrid Casares and Tommy Pooch meld their South Beach promoting talents to form TAI. Photo by Mitchell Zachs.

Link (http://www.mamma.com/PicInfo?query=TOMMY+POOCH&qtype=48&PAGE_URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.miamisunpost.com%2Farchives%2F2004%2F10-07-04%2Fthirteenthstoryfrontpage.htm&IMAGE_URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.miamisunpost.com%2Farchives%2F2004%2F10-07-04%2FIMAGE%2Fmain6.jpg&WIDTH=200&HEIGHT=123&FILESIZE=24&COLORS=15984&ANIM=0&COLOR=1&THUMB_URL=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.picsearch.com%2Fis%3FcUtoeIk137_g1ASWGgX_ezmDkwqh-wcBx8c2eclzKSQ&THUMB_WIDTH=128&THUMB_HEIGHT=78&start=)



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: hotping on June 06, 2008, 12:03:13 PM
not yet sure if his is our girl... still looking

TAMARA WALDRON
1505 NW 91ST AVE
CORAL SPRINGS, FL 33071
(954) 752-4612

slightly north of Fort Lauderdale. I'll add this to the google earth map later and if we can find out more about this person.

I see there appears to be 17 sex offenders in the area (that doesn't really matter in this instance, but just mentioning it) and this person appears to be about 44 years old.
Date of Birth for this one is May 17 1971 37 yrs old I will look and see what else I can find maybe previous addresses and possible relatives BRB


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: vms on June 06, 2008, 12:05:42 PM
not yet sure if his is our girl... still looking

TAMARA WALDRON
1505 NW 91ST AVE
CORAL SPRINGS, FL 33071
(954) 752-4612

Tamara Waldron-Roga now, I believe...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Rob on June 06, 2008, 12:15:41 PM
STA. CRUZ -- Nos ta hopi
orguyozo di por anuncia cu
Shiloh Albertsz di Imelda
Kleuterschool a wordo
scogi pa representa Aruba
na e Caribbean Children’s
Environmental
Poster
Competition, cu a tuma
lugar na Januari 2007,
según Sra. Tamara Roga-
Waldron Coordinadora di
e programa pa Ministerio
di Turismo & Transporte.
Ta asina cu studiantenan di
Aruba a ricibi un invitacion
di parti di Florida Caribbean
Cruise Association via
nos oficina pa participa
den e Foundation for the
Caribbean
Children’s
Environmental
Poster
Competition, cu lo tuma
lugar na Januari 2007.
Nos a informa Directora
di
Onderwijs
Zaken,
Sra. Oduber, y el’a percura
cu tur school na Aruba
a haya e información
necesario pa por a participa.
E aña aki e competencia su
meta tabatata pa promove
y stimula e concientizacion
di medio ambiente entre
studiantenan
Caríbense
door di educa e generacion
di hobennan aki riba e
importancia di proteccion
di nos medio ambiente.
Den e división di “junior”
pa muchanan di 12 aña y
menos, Shiloh Albertsz a
yega te na final y a ricibi un
premio di finalista for di Sra.
Tamara
Roga-Waldron.

Nos mester remarka cu
ambos studiante a entrega
un trabao excepcional y no a
keda ningun duda ariba ken
mester representa nos den
e competencia na Merca.
E ganadornan a wordo
scogi na Merca door
di FCCA su comité di
selección cu a determina
e prome, di dos y e di tres
lugar den ambos categoría
di e posternan ricibi for
di cada pais participante.
Riba
e
potretnan
adhunto
por
aprecia
Sra. Waldon, Shiloh, y
Sra. Pablo, Directora di
Imelda
Kleuterschool

cached page
http://tinyurl.com/6z6b3o

I think this might be her - it's from the original page
(http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p149/Morgan2112_2006/ScreenHunter_02Jun061205.gif)

(http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p149/Morgan2112_2006/ScreenHunter_03Jun061209.gif)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Rob on June 06, 2008, 12:21:41 PM
vms, just wondering of Waldron has a connection to FIU ???


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 06, 2008, 12:24:31 PM
not yet sure if his is our girl... still looking

TAMARA WALDRON
1505 NW 91ST AVE
CORAL SPRINGS, FL 33071
(954) 752-4612

Tamara Waldron-Roga now, I believe...


I have googled Coral Springs in the last week...no clue who I was looking at now!!!

Thanks for the info vms, Hotping and Rob! Sorry if I forgot anyone...catching up!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Rob on June 06, 2008, 12:24:45 PM
Lala'smom, Paciello is not in the federal inmate locator...odd since it seems he committed federal crimes.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Rob on June 06, 2008, 12:34:11 PM
face book

http://www.facebook.com/people/Tamara_Waldron-Roga/657890874


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 06, 2008, 12:34:44 PM
This looks like her..the other one doesn't have a Coral Springs address!

Tamara M Oyer  Tamara Waldron   37   St James City, FL Coral Springs, FL Cape Coral, FL Saint Louis, MO Honeoye Falls, NY Saint James City, FL


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Rob on June 06, 2008, 12:37:03 PM
face book

http://www.facebook.com/people/Tamara_Waldron-Roga/657890874

I notice she is friends with Paula Ochoa who lists her friends as Annalisa Gesterkamp and Nelson Oduber...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: vms on June 06, 2008, 12:46:03 PM
vms, just wondering of Waldron has a connection to FIU ???

Ohhhhhhh. Yeah, I wonder...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 06, 2008, 12:47:28 PM
face book

http://www.facebook.com/people/Tamara_Waldron-Roga/657890874

I notice she is friends with Paula Ochoa who lists her friends as Annalisa Gesterkamp and Nelson Oduber...

I saw that Rob...Nelson says he is in Florida...the Ochua name is familiar, can't remember why! Is it similar or the same as a drug bust guy?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Rob on June 06, 2008, 12:50:06 PM
face book

http://www.facebook.com/people/Tamara_Waldron-Roga/657890874

I notice she is friends with Paula Ochoa who lists her friends as Annalisa Gesterkamp and Nelson Oduber...

I saw that Rob...Nelson says he is in Florida...the Ochua name is familiar, can't remember why! Is it similar or the same as a drug bust guy?

that is the guy that was busted with Luis Mansur that ******* has been following closely and posting about from Awe Mainta and Sol Pueblo


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 06, 2008, 12:51:21 PM
Lala's...this puts Ernesto in Florida in 1994, and I have seen it posted he graduated that year. I am sure I went to the website and am looking for it now! Otherwise I will do the math!!!

http://www.miaminewtimes.com/2004-02-26/news/rope-tricks/


Published on February 26, 2004

But you clearly don't have the bod, the patter, or the attitude of Karen and her micro-mini'd ilk. All the usual suspects from the South Beach scene agree that most people living the high life without paying for it are the beautiful, traffickers in the beautiful, celebrities, or people from the nightlife, fashion, or music industries. "You're either well connected, or you wait in line and pay your money," says Ernesto Arambatzis, a promoter of events at the Delano and Mynt, who entered clubland a decade ago through the modeling pipeline.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 06, 2008, 12:56:34 PM
Lala's...this puts Ernesto in Florida in 1994, and I have seen it posted he graduated that year. I am sure I went to the website and am looking for it now! Otherwise I will do the math!!!

http://www.miaminewtimes.com/2004-02-26/news/rope-tricks/


Published on February 26, 2004

But you clearly don't have the bod, the patter, or the attitude of Karen and her micro-mini'd ilk. All the usual suspects from the South Beach scene agree that most people living the high life without paying for it are the beautiful, traffickers in the beautiful, celebrities, or people from the nightlife, fashion, or music industries. "You're either well connected, or you wait in line and pay your money," says Ernesto Arambatzis, a promoter of events at the Delano and Mynt, who entered clubland a decade ago through the modeling pipeline.

Thanks Kermit...Lala's doesn't look like a college??? Will take a closer look! Says Prep school and shows a young kid!

___________________________________________________________-
Ernesto       Arambatzis             1994       Porlamar       NE       Venezuela
http://tinyurl.com/hzjel





Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: vms on June 06, 2008, 01:00:25 PM
Lala'smom, Paciello is not in the federal inmate locator...odd since it seems he committed federal crimes.

Real Name: Christian Ludwigsen

I can't remember if I read where he served time. I know I read he was expected to be in witness protection upon release but he isn't.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2007/0710071paciello1.html


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 06, 2008, 01:00:53 PM
face book

http://www.facebook.com/people/Tamara_Waldron-Roga/657890874

I notice she is friends with Paula Ochoa who lists her friends as Annalisa Gesterkamp and Nelson Oduber...

I saw that Rob...Nelson says he is in Florida...the Ochua name is familiar, can't remember why! Is it similar or the same as a drug bust guy?

that is the guy that was busted with Luis Mansur that ******* has been following closely and posting about from Awe Mainta and Sol Pueblo


Thanks...that is what I thought!  Did you see that the Brown guy was actually Bruin! I think he was one of the rat-ees! May have been the bank guy!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 06, 2008, 01:08:06 PM
Lala'smom, Paciello is not in the federal inmate locator...odd since it seems he committed federal crimes.

Real Name: Christian Ludwigsen

I can't remember if I read where he served time. I know I read he was expected to be in witness protection upon release but he isn't.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2007/0710071paciello1.html

Odd...then that he is still alive...mob and all!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: vms on June 06, 2008, 01:13:51 PM
Lala'smom, Paciello is not in the federal inmate locator...odd since it seems he committed federal crimes.

Real Name: Christian Ludwigsen

I can't remember if I read where he served time. I know I read he was expected to be in witness protection upon release but he isn't.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2007/0710071paciello1.html

Odd...then that he is still alive...mob and all!

This one is interesting, Mum.
http://www.maximonline.com/articles/index.aspx?a_id=3339

Ernesto must be proud of starting his career under Paciello's guidance?
No one I know would flaunt that.  :lol:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 06, 2008, 01:19:16 PM
Lala'smom, Paciello is not in the federal inmate locator...odd since it seems he committed federal crimes.

Real Name: Christian Ludwigsen

I can't remember if I read where he served time. I know I read he was expected to be in witness protection upon release but he isn't.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2007/0710071paciello1.html

Odd...then that he is still alive...mob and all!

This one is interesting, Mum.
http://www.maximonline.com/articles/index.aspx?a_id=3339

Ernesto must be proud of starting his career under Paciello's guidance?
No one I know would flaunt that.  :lol:


So is this.... ::MonkeyShocked::

Welcome to Bradenton Preparatory Academy
"Home of the Patriots"
Bradenton Preparatory Academy is an accredited, private, co-educational college preparatory school for grades K through 12th in Bradenton, Florida. At Bradenton Preparatory Academy, we are extremely proud of our extraordinary college placement record, national and international. For more information, please take a few minutes and explore our website.

Nothing Succeeds Like Success!
-Dr. Murray Gerber

See I will have a lot to read when I get back!!!!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: hotping on June 06, 2008, 01:35:32 PM
I have had a minor emergency here at home but I will do some more research on Tamara as soon as I can......If needed!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 06, 2008, 01:45:41 PM
I have had a minor emergency here at home but I will do some more research on Tamara as soon as I can......If needed!

Hope everything is okay.  When you get a chance email me...cindoal@yahoo.com

I have a dumb question that I don't want to ask on here...not related to this stuff. TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 06, 2008, 01:50:52 PM
I messed up that post...my email is

cindoal@yahoo.com.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 06, 2008, 01:54:21 PM
I have had a minor emergency here at home but I will do some more research on Tamara as soon as I can......If needed!


Hope everything is OK Hotping, and it is only minor!!!

Yes! You are needed...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 06, 2008, 02:10:43 PM
Lala'smom, Paciello is not in the federal inmate locator...odd since it seems he committed federal crimes.

Real Name: Christian Ludwigsen

I can't remember if I read where he served time. I know I read he was expected to be in witness protection upon release but he isn't.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2007/0710071paciello1.html

Odd...then that he is still alive...mob and all!

This one is interesting, Mum.
http://www.maximonline.com/articles/index.aspx?a_id=3339

Ernesto must be proud of starting his career under Paciello's guidance?
No one I know would flaunt that.  :lol:


So is this.... ::MonkeyShocked::

Welcome to Bradenton Preparatory Academy
"Home of the Patriots"
Bradenton Preparatory Academy is an accredited, private, co-educational college preparatory school for grades K through 12th in Bradenton, Florida. At Bradenton Preparatory Academy, we are extremely proud of our extraordinary college placement record, national and international. For more information, please take a few minutes and explore our website.

Nothing Succeeds Like Success!
-Dr. Murray Gerber

See I will have a lot to read when I get back!!!!


Posting the link...all I can find out is that there are schools internationally, but I can't find any info on them! So Ernesto was around 18 in 1994...did the school help him get here?

http://www.bradentonacademy.com/index.jsp?rn=8905175




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Blonde on June 06, 2008, 02:49:11 PM
Thanks for the info vms


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on June 06, 2008, 04:00:48 PM

The elder had one or two cards up his sleeve
They have been played and lost
Will one of the cards sing

The fallen judge and the singing card are of the same hand, but it is dangerous for the Arawaks to play it, because everyone would hear, including the cowboys

The Arawaks may not need to play the singing card
The cowboys won’t hear the music and the teepees will be safe

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:53 pm
"Jossy" is the key
He walks with the elders (Newspaper publisher, reporter, political advisor)
He walks in all houses (newspapers are read by and influence all, rich and poor)
And he walked with the fallen elder (Croes -- because of his economic and political position had to have known him)
he was the hidden card that was played
now if he sings, babylon will fall on the arawak nation (If he publishes what he knows the world, as Aruba knows it will end)


Remember, the current economic situation in Aruba effects his pocketbook too...

Politically his hands may be tied because he still lacks the clout in their parliament to protect his interests if hell is unleashed in the form of public disclosure of all the corruption and cover-up.  If you are an insider like Shango aludes to be you might feel that the 4th estate really does have "Dirty Hands".

The population of Aruba and island size is way to small ... Everyone knows everyone else and has something on everyone else -- but few are in the position to really report the truth to the masses and the world...

Yes, if Jossy were to sing Aruba would be shut down...IMHO



I dunno about any of that fourth estate stuff or whatever......but DirtyHand's power rests with his ability to break the alibi

seems there's some confusion about the two cards played by PVDS....one is DirtyHand, who, per Shango, is not a suspect.......so it is not a suspect that is being kept hidden-rather, somebody who can topple the alibi story of the "partygoers" (the simple party at his house)

are the children of the elders there? or did they flee to babylon? DirtyHand (a babylonian) know-this is his power (sounds like they were at babylon)......but then where was NH? who needed an alibi?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Pita on June 06, 2008, 04:21:49 PM
Rush & Molloy


He's having a time - after doing time
Monday, July 16th 2007, 4:00 AM
       
(http://www.nydailynews.com/img/2007/07/16/amd_chrispaciello.jpg)

Chris Paciello

Former mobbed-up club-promoter Chris Paciello continues to rebuild his life in the fast lane.

The celeb-friendly Mafia figure is putting together restaurant deals in L.A. What's more, he and Victoria's Secret model Erin Naas are expecting a baby.

Never mind that Paciello served nine years for his roles in a $300,000 bank job and the murder of a 46-year-old Staten Island mother. The former Miami disco king has been hanging out with Brett Rattner, Kevin Connelly, Lindsay Lohan and Paris Hilton. He's also "back in contact" with former flame Madonna, a source tells us. "They saw each other about a month ago."

His criminal record prevents him from owning a liquor establishment, but "he's been investing in restaurants," according to a source, who didn't say where Paciello is getting the money.

The former playboy, 35, is also close to settling down with Naas, 24.

"Erin is three months' pregnant with his baby," says a source. "He did propose to her a while back, but she has put him off. Chris has really cleaned up his act. But she wants to know 100% that he knows what he's doing with his life."

Naas, who used to date rocker Tommy Lee, certainly is catnip to bad boys. A source close to the Maxim vixen confirms L.A. cops questioned her about a friendship with two ex-cons suspected in the burglary of "Girls Gone Wild" producer Joe Francis ' home in 2005. But Naas was never accused of any crime.

Paciello had been in a federal witness protection program after testifying against several Colombo family members. But apparently he's no longer afraid. "The guys he ratted out are in jail," says one former Staten Island associate. "Anyone could find him. But it seems like nobody cares now."

Having inspired the Nick Pileggi-scripted A&E TV movie "The Kings of South Beach," Paciello's story may also become a feature, "Un-Made Man," based on "Mob Over Miami," the exposé by former Daily News reporter Michele McPhee.

Mark Wahlberg is said to have turned down $10 million to play Paciello. Producer John Sherman says Paciello will earn zip from the project, adding: "I think it's creepy that all these stars are hanging out with him."

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://blogs.herald.com/scene_in_the_tropics/images/2007/07/10/0709_polaroid_beach_house.jpg&imgrefurl=http://blogs.herald.com/scene_in_the_tropics/2007/07/index.html&h=103&w=100&sz=13&hl=en&start=19&um=1&tbnid=q4_D3Ap8CxJoPM:&tbnh=83&tbnw=81&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dchris%2Bpaciello%2B2008%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26rlz%3D1T4GGIC_enUS209US212%26sa%3DN



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 06, 2008, 08:04:13 PM
Looking for Sharon!!  Email me, I need a favor, please...  cindoal@yahoo.com


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 06, 2008, 08:06:17 PM
Lala'smom, Paciello is not in the federal inmate locator...odd since it seems he committed federal crimes.

Wonder why not?  Do they just pick and choose who gets a listing there?  That is odd.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 06, 2008, 08:25:32 PM
Thanks to Rob, VMS, Pita, Hotping, Mum and anyone else I missed that supplied info today on Paciello....so I am assuming that Ernesto began his modeling career...if he was gay why did he get married...oh nevermind...so he was in the modeling scene before some of those on Aruba.  Wonder if Ronchi has connections to Paciello and Ernesto?  Does anyone remember the name of that modeling agency that Kawish was with?  Guido?  I am thinking out loud here...

Excellent work monkeys!!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: sirensong on June 06, 2008, 09:33:25 PM
Yes, excellent work!!  That Chris P guy sure didn't serve much time, did he?  I guess it was only a poor housewife he is responsible for murdering.  What does the 4th estate mean?  TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Pita on June 06, 2008, 10:11:07 PM
Thanks to Rob, VMS, Pita, Hotping, Mum and anyone else I missed that supplied info today on Paciello....so I am assuming that Ernesto began his modeling career...if he was gay why did he get married...oh nevermind...so he was in the modeling scene before some of those on Aruba.  Wonder if Ronchi has connections to Paciello and Ernesto?  Does anyone remember the name of that modeling agency that Kawish was with?  Guido?  I am thinking out loud here...

Excellent work monkeys!!

I think it was Knockout Model Agency.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Pita on June 06, 2008, 10:14:53 PM
KNOCK-OUT ORGANIZATION 
 
Business address CAYA G.F. (BETICO) CROES 168, ORANJESTAD OOST 
Legal form  SOLE OWNERSHIP 
Name of the company  KNOCK-OUT ORGANIZATION 
Date of commencement  8 DECEMBER 1989 
     
   
OWNERS/PARTNERS 
 
DE CUBA, RONALD OSWALD (JR); 
Residing in  ADRIAAN LACLE BLVD. 13, ORANJESTAD, ARUBA 
Born in  ARUBA on 9 FEBRUARY 1971 
Nationality  DUTCH 
Position  OWNER 
Effective  4 FEBRUARY 1993 
Authority  FULL 
   
OBJECTIVE(S) OF THE COMPANY 
 
"HET ORGANISEREN VAN JEUGDFEESTEN, CONCERTEN, MODE-SHOWS EN SCHOONHEIDSWESTRIJDEN" 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Pita on June 06, 2008, 10:19:24 PM
Aruban Designers Heat up the Beach with Cool Suits
Photography by Steve Keith
 
Local Aruban fashion designers Ronchi de Cuba and Heidi Munzenhoffer are making waves with their collection of originally designed swimsuits. Ronchi, a veteran to the Caribbean fashion design scene and owner of Knock Out Model Agency and clothing store TRASH BY RONCHI, launched his popular SOLO line of swimwear a few years back, while Heidi, a successful local model, just recently jumped into the pool to begin marketing her swimwear.

    Ronchi's SOLO swimwear line is based upon several standard styles and cuts—from practical one-pieces and sporty tankinis to suits with fashionable peekaboo cutouts and barely there bikinis. "I have found that different cuts and styles flatter different women. Over time, I have developed a foundation of popular styles that I try to stick with, and just change the fabrics from season to season," says the designer.

    Heidi custom designs and tailors her suits for each individual client, but has plans to develop and market her creations to the general public soon. The designer also runs couture shop Creations Aimee with her mother, Rosa. Heidi is currently working on a swimsuit calendar for 2004, combining both her talents as a designer and beauty as a model.

http://www.island-temptations.com/old/summer03/story4/


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: bleachedblack on June 06, 2008, 11:13:35 PM
Here Lalas :  http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2005/08/jossy_mansur_ta.html


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: vms on June 06, 2008, 11:50:22 PM
Rob,

Check this out:

Armin
http://www.facebook.com/friends/?id=503240047

Luisa Oduber?, Tamara, Ruben, Annalisa, as well as several other interesting friends...

I think you have to log in to see the list.
 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: hotping on June 07, 2008, 01:46:34 AM
Lala's...this puts Ernesto in Florida in 1994, and I have seen it posted he graduated that year. I am sure I went to the website and am looking for it now! Otherwise I will do the math!!!

http://www.miaminewtimes.com/2004-02-26/news/rope-tricks/


Published on February 26, 2004

But you clearly don't have the bod, the patter, or the attitude of Karen and her micro-mini'd ilk. All the usual suspects from the South Beach scene agree that most people living the high life without paying for it are the beautiful, traffickers in the beautiful, celebrities, or people from the nightlife, fashion, or music industries. "You're either well connected, or you wait in line and pay your money," says Ernesto Arambatzis, a promoter of events at the Delano and Mynt, who entered clubland a decade ago through the modeling pipeline.

Thanks Kermit...Lala's doesn't look like a college??? Will take a closer look! Says Prep school and shows a young kid!

___________________________________________________________-
Ernesto       Arambatzis             1994       Porlamar       NE       Venezuela
http://tinyurl.com/hzjel




Ernesto's original Fl Drivers license was issued 12/11/1995


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: hotping on June 07, 2008, 01:54:34 AM
PACIELLO,CHRISTIAN  DL Number
2025 BRICKELL AVE #1805 
City/State/ZIP Code
MIAMI ,01 33129 Race
W Type
CLASS E  FDLE County

none found
 
Gender
M Date of Birth
Jan 9 1970 Age
037 Height
600
Issue Type
 Address Changed Flag
 Name Changed Flag
 DOB Changed Flag
 
Sex Changed Flag
 Deceased Date
00000000 Attention
 Restriction 1

none found
 
Restriction 2

none found
 Restriction 3

none found
 Restriction 4

none found
 Restriction 5

none found
 
Issue Date
Sep 26 1996 Motorcycle
 Endorsement 1

none found
 Endorsement 2

none found
 
Endorsement 3

none found
 Endorsement 4

none found
 Endorsement 5

none found
 Expire Date
Jan 9 2003
Privacy Flag
T Original Issue Date
Sep 26 1996 Out of State Identifier
 




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: finngirl on June 07, 2008, 03:22:01 AM
... What does the 4th estate mean?  TIA

The term Fourth Estate refers to the press ... the term goes back at least to Thomas Carlyle in the first half of the 19th century ...

... Fourth Estate has referred to "the public press" since at least as far back as the early 1800s. More generally, it has also been used to refer to any group other than the clergy, nobility, or commons that wields political power ...

... Novelist Jeffrey Archer in his work The Fourth Estate made the observation: "In May 1789, Louis XVI summoned to Versailles a full meeting of the 'Estate General'. The First Estate consisted of three hundred clergy. The Second Estate, three hundred nobles. The Third Estate, six hundred commoners. Some years later, after the French Revolution, Edmund Burke, looking up at the Press Gallery of the House of Commons, said, 'Yonder sits the Fourth Estate, and they are more important than them all.'"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Estate



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Silverfox on June 07, 2008, 04:33:01 AM
... What does the 4th estate mean?  TIA

The term Fourth Estate refers to the press ... the term goes back at least to Thomas Carlyle in the first half of the 19th century ...

... Fourth Estate has referred to "the public press" since at least as far back as the early 1800s. More generally, it has also been used to refer to any group other than the clergy, nobility, or commons that wields political power ...

... Novelist Jeffrey Archer in his work The Fourth Estate made the observation: "In May 1789, Louis XVI summoned to Versailles a full meeting of the 'Estate General'. The First Estate consisted of three hundred clergy. The Second Estate, three hundred nobles. The Third Estate, six hundred commoners. Some years later, after the French Revolution, Edmund Burke, looking up at the Press Gallery of the House of Commons, said, 'Yonder sits the Fourth Estate, and they are more important than them all.'"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Estate



I would like to also remind everyone of the poster on RWV that says they have had enough 9some say is melody) when posting said something like "all it takes is one reporter" ...

What an interesting statement -- and i do not believe she/or he was referring to Peter.  I always felt it was a statement about Jossy.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 07, 2008, 11:01:45 AM
Thanks BB!  So Jossy was on island in June 2005.  He didn't have a reason to leave until August and that is when he had to obtain that visa to come to the US.  HMMMM.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: sirensong on June 07, 2008, 03:45:49 PM
Thanks Finngirl!  I find it interesting that things always trail back to Brickell Bay in Florida.  Too interesting.  I am probably the only one on here that NEVER trusted Jossy.  He is just too involved in island politics, and knows too many people to not know what happened.  I am sorry, but I do not trust him one bit.  He is too powerful to trust.  I was hoping he would do the right thing, but alas, he has too many friends and enemies in high positions.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Kermit on June 07, 2008, 06:28:28 PM
http://www.arubalions.org/Committees/Committee_2004-2005/ALC_Administrative_Committees_2004-2005.htm


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: sharon on June 07, 2008, 07:52:09 PM
Thanks to Rob, VMS, Pita, Hotping, Mum and anyone else I missed that supplied info today on Paciello....so I am assuming that Ernesto began his modeling career...if he was gay why did he get married...oh nevermind...so he was in the modeling scene before some of those on Aruba.  Wonder if Ronchi has connections to Paciello and Ernesto?  Does anyone remember the name of that modeling agency that Kawish was with?  Guido?  I am thinking out loud here...

Excellent work monkeys!!

Maybe so he could live in the US?? American wife?

I probably have way too much to catch up on. Sorry.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: sharon on June 07, 2008, 08:02:57 PM
Lala's...this puts Ernesto in Florida in 1994, and I have seen it posted he graduated that year. I am sure I went to the website and am looking for it now! Otherwise I will do the math!!!

http://www.miaminewtimes.com/2004-02-26/news/rope-tricks/


Published on February 26, 2004

But you clearly don't have the bod, the patter, or the attitude of Karen and her micro-mini'd ilk. All the usual suspects from the South Beach scene agree that most people living the high life without paying for it are the beautiful, traffickers in the beautiful, celebrities, or people from the nightlife, fashion, or music industries. "You're either well connected, or you wait in line and pay your money," says Ernesto Arambatzis, a promoter of events at the Delano and Mynt, who entered clubland a decade ago through the modeling pipeline.

Not sure if this helps -- but that would be Ernie's 'return' to Florida.

I have an article (somewhere) about a farewell party for him as he left South Beach for NYC in 1993 (iirc).

Maybe he didn't like the weather...but he seemed to return to S Florida in about a year.

Again -- apologies if I'm out of context.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: finngirl on June 08, 2008, 03:25:14 AM
Thanks Finngirl! I find it interesting that things always trail back to Brickell Bay in Florida. Too interesting. I am probably the only one on here that NEVER trusted Jossy.  He is just too involved in island politics, and knows too many people to not know what happened. I am sorry, but I do not trust him one bit. He is too powerful to trust. I was hoping he would do the right thing, but alas, he has too many friends and enemies in high positions.

YW  :cool:

I've never trusted Jossy, since Day One ...
neither did finbar

guess that makes three of us  :wink: :wink: :wink:



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Rob on June 08, 2008, 06:22:40 AM
Thanks Finngirl! I find it interesting that things always trail back to Brickell Bay in Florida. Too interesting. I am probably the only one on here that NEVER trusted Jossy.  He is just too involved in island politics, and knows too many people to not know what happened. I am sorry, but I do not trust him one bit. He is too powerful to trust. I was hoping he would do the right thing, but alas, he has too many friends and enemies in high positions.

YW  :cool:

I've never trusted Jossy, since Day One ...
neither did finbar

guess that makes three of us  :wink: :wink: :wink:



finngirl,
count me in . . . Jamie Skeeters didn't seem to trust him either.  ::MonkeyWink::

I used to speak to Jamie, before he died of course, and sometimes he would just start talking about other aspects of the case and the people involved - he had a lot to say about Jossy...
needless to say - I trusted Jamie a lot more than Jossy..

+++++++++++++

vms, I found that "Luis Oduber" a long time ago - but could never find anything more about him . . . he was my first serious guess as to who "Luis" really was. I'm not able to log in there - can you screen capture the pic???

if not, I'll open an account.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Blonde on June 08, 2008, 09:07:33 AM
Thanks Finngirl! I find it interesting that things always trail back to Brickell Bay in Florida. Too interesting. I am probably the only one on here that NEVER trusted Jossy.  He is just too involved in island politics, and knows too many people to not know what happened. I am sorry, but I do not trust him one bit. He is too powerful to trust. I was hoping he would do the right thing, but alas, he has too many friends and enemies in high positions.

YW  :cool:

I've never trusted Jossy, since Day One ...
neither did finbar

guess that makes three of us  :wink: :wink: :wink:


Five of us , I think Jossy know's way more then he's saying.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 08, 2008, 09:54:43 AM
Thanks Finngirl! I find it interesting that things always trail back to Brickell Bay in Florida. Too interesting. I am probably the only one on here that NEVER trusted Jossy.  He is just too involved in island politics, and knows too many people to not know what happened. I am sorry, but I do not trust him one bit. He is too powerful to trust. I was hoping he would do the right thing, but alas, he has too many friends and enemies in high positions.

YW  :cool:

I've never trusted Jossy, since Day One ...
neither did finbar

guess that makes three of us  :wink: :wink: :wink:



Only three ::MonkeyWink::

All is no as it appears...

Blonde...Thanks for the response on the computer records...

Sharon...anything on Ernesto in NY...TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: sharon on June 08, 2008, 10:41:43 AM
Mum

I'm looking but striking out. Most of the 'links' I saved -- many of them cached -- no longer work.

Sout out to vms....vms has a 'data center' wroth of stuff. I believe the frog has this stuff too ::MonkeyLaugh:: The article from the 'going away party' for Ernesto. He left Miami for New York. I think it was 2003.

Here's a link to a nother picture of Ernie. Not sure if you've seen this one. (some of my old links still work)


http://www.southbeach-usa.com/clubs/misc/stage/stage1.htm


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Silverfox on June 08, 2008, 12:43:08 PM
Thanks Finngirl! I find it interesting that things always trail back to Brickell Bay in Florida. Too interesting. I am probably the only one on here that NEVER trusted Jossy.  He is just too involved in island politics, and knows too many people to not know what happened. I am sorry, but I do not trust him one bit. He is too powerful to trust. I was hoping he would do the right thing, but alas, he has too many friends and enemies in high positions.

YW  :cool:

I've never trusted Jossy, since Day One ...
neither did finbar

guess that makes three of us  :wink: :wink: :wink:



finngirl,
count me in . . . Jamie Skeeters didn't seem to trust him either.  ::MonkeyWink::

I used to speak to Jamie, before he died of course, and sometimes he would just start talking about other aspects of the case and the people involved - he had a lot to say about Jossy...
needless to say - I trusted Jamie a lot more than Jossy..

Ditto me too -- since 2005


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 08, 2008, 12:44:11 PM
I don't think you are alone Finn...I have been trying to connect Jossy, Ernesto, Freddy and a few others.  The key here is Florida...the answers lie in something that happens in that state.  Too many coincidences. 

Jossy has a home there...his daughter owns a Hooters there, or did at some point. Ernesto is heavy into the South Beach scene...they all live within spitting distance of each other and Ft. Lauderdale.  Two years ago someone kept telling me that there is a lot of information in Ft. Lauderdale...I never understood that until recently.  We have people connected that live in Miami Beach, Miami, Doral, Ft. Lauderdale, Jacksonville,  Plantation, Stewart, and various other places in Florida.  I have had monkeys all over the place chasing things and they all go back to Florida...the place so many of our suspects and witnesses have been associated with.  I have become more suspicious as the days go by...the dots won't line up for me. I am hoping one of your other monkeys can do this...VMS, Mum, Finn, Sharon, Hotping, Rob, Grande, anybody at this point. 

I guess you can sense my frustrations...we have people changing names and address that don't go anywhere...this is more like a nightmare than reality.  I have never seen anything remotely like this story in the movies...they can't write this kind of stuff...nobody would believe it.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 08, 2008, 12:52:35 PM
http://www.arubalions.org/Committees/Committee_2004-2005/ALC_Administrative_Committees_2004-2005.htm

Now, unless I miss my guess here, Kermit never posts unless there is a reason...so I am looking at these names and I see some that are interesting...anyone notice anything too?

Maiky Croes?  Caps mentioned him too.
Andin Bikker?  Caps mentioned this guy also...heck I think Caps has mentionec most all of these people at one time or another.  Can't make the connections.  Lot's of Croes there and another name that rings a bell with me. HMMMMM.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: vms on June 08, 2008, 01:42:14 PM
This one, Sharon?


MOON OVER SKYBAR:
The Thursday night party at SkyBar has always had a large model following and often the party resembled a casting session with gorgeous young faces (and bodies) posed eternally on the beds around the pool. Since most of the models have grabbed their portfolios and made a fashionable exit along with the tourists I predicted an un-crowded party. WRONG! The place was packed and let me be the first to tell you…all the models haven’t left. Under an incredibly beautiful full moon, the beautiful and trendy partied and cuddled (on the beds). Many gathered to say goodbye (he’ll be back) to Ernesto Arambatzis who has moved to New York City. Some even danced to the sounds of DJ Nayib Esteban. SEEN: Jason Binn (he’s engaged), Jacquelynn D. Powers, Ernesto Arambatzis (who’s leaving us for NYC), Jose Ortiz (who’s leaving us for L.A.), Eddie Smith, promoters Erica Freshman and Zack Bush, stylish fashionistas Alicia & Dre, and photographer Seth Browarnik.   

http://www.miamisunpost.com/archives/2003/04-24-03/Nightlife.htm


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Rob on June 08, 2008, 03:03:43 PM
found this in an old file

(http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p149/Morgan2112_2006/deadoduber1.jpg)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Pita on June 08, 2008, 03:51:26 PM
Mum

I'm looking but striking out. Most of the 'links' I saved -- many of them cached -- no longer work.

Sout out to vms....vms has a 'data center' wroth of stuff. I believe the frog has this stuff too ::MonkeyLaugh:: The article from the 'going away party' for Ernesto. He left Miami for New York. I think it was 2003.

Here's a link to a nother picture of Ernie. Not sure if you've seen this one. (some of my old links still work)


http://www.southbeach-usa.com/clubs/misc/stage/stage1.htm


July 21, 2006

MOON OVER SKYBAR: The Thursday night party at SkyBar has always had a large model following and often the party resembled a casting session with gorgeous young faces (and bodies) posed eternally on the beds around the pool. Since most of the models have grabbed their portfolios and made a fashionable exit along with the tourists I predicted an un-crowded party. WRONG! The place was packed and let me be the first to tell you…all the models haven’t left. Under an incredibly beautiful full moon, the beautiful and trendy partied and cuddled (on the beds). Many gathered to say goodbye (he’ll be back) to Ernesto Arambatzis who has moved to New York City. Some even danced to the sounds of DJ Nayib Esteban. SEEN: Jason Binn (he’s engaged), Jacquelynn D. Powers, Ernesto Arambatzis (who’s leaving us for NYC), Jose Ortiz (who’s leaving us for L.A.), Eddie Smith, promoters Erica Freshman and Zack Bush, stylish fashionistas Alicia & Dre, and photographer Seth Browarnik.   

http://www.miamisunpost.com/archives/2003/04-24-03/Nightlife.htm



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on June 08, 2008, 04:41:06 PM
re: trusting Jossy.......The Simian wasn't entirely trusted either:

Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 2:59 am
The Simian Doppleganger is upset because the arawak nation is hiding the truth from the cowboys
DirtyHand knows
Simian knows
The Simian stated for 2 days, the key would come from the hague the next day
Shango said no two times
Is Simian a DirtyHand too
Has the Simian played with the lions
in the houses of ill-repute and poison notes
where the innocent flies are lured?
Has the Simian, primate that he is, fed with the other animals?
Back ye fetid mongrel, as the 46th are you; delegate of the 7th level of inferno,
not birthed, but spewed from the dark chasm of a nightmare!







Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 08, 2008, 05:18:42 PM
re: trusting Jossy.......The Simian wasn't entirely trusted either:

Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 2:59 am
The Simian Doppleganger is upset because the arawak nation is hiding the truth from the cowboys
DirtyHand knows
Simian knows
The Simian stated for 2 days, the key would come from the hague the next day
Shango said no two times
Is Simian a DirtyHand too
Has the Simian played with the lions
in the houses of ill-repute and poison notes
where the innocent flies are lured?

Has the Simian, primate that he is, fed with the other animals?
Back ye fetid mongrel, as the 46th are you; delegate of the 7th level of inferno,
not birthed, but spewed from the dark chasm of a nightmare!







Simian played?  Band?  Maybe poison notes is just that...musical notes.  Follow the music.  hmmmmm.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on June 08, 2008, 07:57:25 PM
Lala's:

Think maybe notes are loans (credit line anybody?)

What is "played" is "the game"

Follow the poison notes (money)

he will sing for his son: 'a poisonous siren in the halls of babylon'

why did the girl owe money

"but it was not a game"

http://www.ca11.uscourts.gov/opinions/ops/200214306.pdf
pg 4: "the game", "players", "honey laden notes"
pg 15: "forbidden fruits/secrets"
pg 18/22: "rules of the game"
pg 7/24: "Arawaks often go to play in small houses of babylon......", "not all lions leave their den"




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Kermit on June 08, 2008, 09:57:33 PM
MyntUltra Lounge
1921 Collins Ave.
MIAMI BEACH   FL   33139
Telephone: 786.276.6132
Fax: 786.276.6131
teamed with Mynt Lounge marketing director Ernesto Arambatzis
 http://www.bizbash.com/florida/newsletter/issue046.html

With or without the assistance of the moon this Wednesday night party, which Max co hosts with Ernesto Arambatzis,
http://www.miamisunpost.com/archives/2003/01-30-03/Nightlife.htm

Since I didn’t make an appearance at Skybar the previous week for Ernesto Arambatzis’ new party,
http://www.miamisunpost.com/archives/2003/03-06-03/Nightlife.htm


Creator Ernesto Arambatzis, president of Brainworks & Co.,
http://www.southbeach-usa.com/miami-beach-news/miami-beach-news-9.htm

(http://www.southbeach-usa.com/clubs/misc/stage/tony_ernesto_janet.jpg)


http://www.southbeach-usa.com/clubs/misc/stage/stage1.htm

Ernesto Arambatzis and friends at Level:


Ernesto is also on the team at the Rok bar.
http://www.cooljunkie.com/clubs/girl_about_town_0517_location_miami_1603.html

Open House Jan. 7, 2005
hosted by Ernesto Arambatzis
http://www.cooljunkie.com/miami/open_house_venue_cafeteria_miami_19720.html


The Marlin Hotel’s new owners are making quite a few changes with the historic hotel including transforming the lobby into a restaurant called REX.
On Tuesday night I joined a crowd of media types to sample the restaurants cuisine and check out the changes.
Ernesto Arambatzis
http://cubbywritesmiami.blogspot.com/

Ocean DriveMagazine
In association with Gerry Kelly and Noah Lazes Presents:
ELEVATE
The New Wednesday Night@Vivid
Hosted by Troy Parsons & Ernesto Arambatzis

Wednesday June 7th 2000 10PM
Complimentary Bar 10-11pm
RSVP For Complimentary <A HREF="http://www.clubplanet.com/guestlists/" TARGET="_blank">Guest List</A> 305.695.9299
Vivid
743 Washington Avenue
Miami Beach, FL 33139
VIP Table Reservations 305.695.9033 www.vividnightclub.com
http://bbs.clubplanet.com/miami/3252-vivid-nightclub.html
_______________________________________________________________________
"You're either well connected, or you wait in line and pay your money," says Ernesto Arambatzis, a promoter of events at the Delano and Mynt, who entered clubland a decade ago through the modeling pipeline.
http://www.miaminewtimes.com/Issues/2004-02-26/news/feature.html
FEb. 26, 2004

LALAMOM ASKED ABOUT THIS I THINK. SORRY I FORGOT TO POST IT AWHILE BACK FOR YA

Ernesto       Arambatzis             1994       Porlamar       NE       Venezuela
http://tinyurl.com/hzjel

(http://static.flickr.com/19/93972481_0885d65655.jpg)
Porlamar, Venezeula


LIVE WEB CAM (oops, don't scroll down if you are sensitive to natural booty) :D
from Isla Margarita, Portamar, Venezuela:
http://www.margaritainfo.com/webcam.htm

________________________________________________________________

From Grande's original post on SM, I traced back:


http://www.miami-dadeclerk.com/public-records/image.asp?page=1&cfn_master_id=17537889#image

http://www.miami-dadeclerk.com/civil/docketinfo.asp?pCase_Year=2005&pCase_Seq=9957&pCase_Code=FC&pCase_Loc=04&id=AAAA8tAAHAAAhW/AAb

There is a party promoter in Miami with the name, Ariel Stein, but I do not know if it is the same person.
http://www.cooljunkie.com/miami/automatic_slims_venue_automatic_slims_miami_8446.html
http://www.miaminewtimes.com/search/locations.php?oid=8112&locationSearch=1

The document shows Ernesto's date of birth as 8/18/76.
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(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b341/dkpen/ernestoaruba.gif)
Ernesto Arambatzis: On left


He is a model too!

so that makes:
Guido Wever
Kelvin Hally
and
Ernesto Armbatzis all models.

or in America we call them Porn Stars.












Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Rob on June 08, 2008, 10:16:16 PM
Lala's:

Think maybe notes are loans (credit line anybody?)

What is "played" is "the game"

Follow the poison notes (money)

he will sing for his son: 'a poisonous siren in the halls of babylon'

why did the girl owe money

"but it was not a game"

http://www.ca11.uscourts.gov/opinions/ops/200214306.pdf
pg 4: "the game", "players", "honey laden notes"
pg 15: "forbidden fruits/secrets"
pg 18/22: "rules of the game"
pg 7/24: "Arawaks often go to play in small houses of babylon......", "not all lions leave their den"




Follow the poison notes (money)

bogus bank loans - they set these up to money launder and a host of other criminal endeavors.

why did the girlowe money

maybe this girl is not Natalee... but the person with the bogus bank loans?? Anita?? Julie? any of those hens fit the bill.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 09, 2008, 12:31:37 AM
OK...OK...OK...I was just thinking out loud...I didn't mean I know anything about Shango.  Gosh!!   :roll:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 09, 2008, 04:30:41 PM
LaLa's - I know that Jossy has been a wonderful help to Beth and to Natalee's cause.  Everyone is grateful for what he has done......BUT, Jossy and his family have a dark and deep history of corruption. They are not clean.  The information that emerged from the BAT scandal was not pretty.  They own so much of that island.  In those BAT documents, I think I read that Jossy even maintains a Venezuelan citizenship which could be a connection to Freddy and Ernesto.  Are they related somehow, legitimately or illegitimately?  I just hate to disparage Jossy because of all that he has done and for what he continues to do, however, a man with his power on that small island knows exactly what happened that night.  I believe that he could break the entire case open.  I feel that he helps us only to a certain extent.  I also feel that the help that he has given may be political motivated because he has a few personal scores to settle. I have always felt that he could be Shango.  I also don't trust him.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 09, 2008, 05:50:27 PM
Mansur Citizenship
Aruban Connections
Five members of the Aruban Mansur Family, viz. Mr. Elias F. Mansur, Mrs. Damia M. de Cuba-Mansur, Mr. Luis E. Mansur, Mr. Miguel J. Mansur and Mrs. Sarah E. Arends-Mansur, have raised objections against general references in the following chapter to the Mansurs or the Mansur family. In their opinion these references may be understood as including them and thereby implicating them in alleged wrongdoing they have never committed.
The author is of the opinion that such references to a large family will not be misunderstood as including each and every member of the family. However, in case this opinion should prove incorrect, the author points out that he regrets such misunderstanding and that he did not intend said references to implicate all members of the family.
The Cuntrera-Caruana clan had links with another Aruban bank: the Interbank. The bank granted a credit to the Cuntrera company "Investeringen Tweehonderd en Tien" for 1.8 million Aruban guilders (approximately one million dollars). Why the Cuntreras who own several investment companies in Venezuela needed the loan is unknown.
One could speculate, however, this was a 'loan-back' operation to launder money. An amount of money is deposited cash at a bank and the bank lends the money back: now there is a clean and legitimate source of earnings. But there is no proof, no one ever looked really into the relations of the bank with the Sicilian mafiosi. The letter of credit was issued before the mafia connections of the clan became officially known on the island. This did not stop the bank from keeping the Cuntreras as clients. During Operation Wiseguy the undercover DEA agents were asked to wire money for a shipment of hashish on the account of Alfonso Cuntrera at the Interbank.
The Interbank is owned by the Mansur Family. If anybody owns 60 per cent of the island, it is this powerful family. The Mansurs made their fortune as cigarette manufacturers and in the import-export business. With a licence of Philip Morris, they are the major suppliers of Marlboros in the Caribbean basin. The Mansurs sponsor the best baseball team - Aruba's national sport - the Marlboro Red Tigers as well as the AVP party of Prime Minister Henny Eman. They own the biggest hotel and time-sharing complex, La Cabana, with its inevitable casino. And they have a couple of import-export businesses in the Free Trade Zone.
Jossy Mansur is the owner and chief editor of the biggest newspaper on the island, "Diario". ""When I read an article in Diario, I know what will be the next action of the government","says Hendrik Croes, adding that the Mansurs create a climate of fear and intimidation on Aruba. Their newspapers force others off the market. Furthermore, ""their annual income is bigger than the yearly budget of the government. And you may guess how they make that kind of money"."""Jossy Mansur is not impressed claiming that accusing people of drug trafficking and money laundering ""has become a political tool to discredit them"." (75) Jossy Mansur acts as the family's mouthpiece, Ruben and the elder Alex are the patriarchs, and Elias 'Don' Mansur is the family's whizz-kid. Elias graduated at Notre Dame University, and was Minister of Economic Affairs in Eman's first cabinet. As representative for the Free Trade Zone entrepreneurs in a mixed Dutch-Aruban commission he has to recommend measures to tighten regulations in the FTZ to prevent money laundering and contraband, together with Dutch government officials. (76)
More and more the name Mansur turns up in money laundering cases. Alex and Eric Mansur were indicted in Puerto Rico in August 1994. (77)
In Venezuela the Mansurs are implicated in money laundering with Santa Lopesierra, the Marlboro Man. Every month Santa 're-invests' 20 million dollar ""with the help of a well-known entrepreneur called Mansur"""." (78) Lopesierra is accused to have financed his election with the proceeds of drug trafficking and a car-theft ring. He is also reputed to be the man behind the Puerto Rico indictment. The activities of Mansur and Lopesierra, however, go well beyond this. They are accused of illegally funding the presidential campaign of Colombian president Ernesto Samper in 1994. Not only did Samper allegedly receive 6 million dollars from the Cali Cartel - an accusation he vehemently denies and ascribes to political machinations - it is said he also pocketed US$ 500,000 in cash offered by ""a group from Philip Morris and Interbank"." (79)
The Mansur Family seems to have all the right connections in its corner of the Caribbean. Some Mansur's still have Venezuelan nationality, and they have interests in Maracaibo and Caracas, as well as in Punto Fijo and Coro, where the originally Lebanese Mansur  Family had settled before moving to Aruba. Punto Fijo is situated on the Paraguaná peninsula in the North at the Golfo de Venezuela, which separates it from La Guajira. A ferry connects Punto Fijo to Aruba. Some 20 years ago, in 1974, a few Sicilians set up a fishing company in Punto Fijo called "Mediterranea Pesca". Among the shareholders: Leonardo and Giuseppe Caruana and Giuseppe Cuffaro. The company owned a sea-going vessel and Italian police suspected that ""in view of the background of the owners it is probably a cover for drug trafficking"." (80)
Most observers do agree on that supposition. Nothing moves on Aruba without the consent of the Mansur's: ""If you want to do business on the island, you have to deal with them
Let's repeat part this last paragraph. "Nothing moves on Aruba without the consent of the Mansur's: ""If you want to do business on the island, you have to deal with them."" I wonder how much has changed since this report was written!
So where's Natalee, and who should we be asking? And by the way, I also can't help but wonder why Fox and the other media interviewed the Mansurs and presented them as credible witnesses without discovering and disclosing these and other related matters.
http://www.hyscience.com/archives/2005/10/harrytho_1017_e.php
That past was controlled by the Arubanese Volks Partij (AVP) within which Jossy Mansur, editor of the Dairio newspaper and spokesperson for the Venezuelan-origin Mansur family, is the godfather. Many members of the Mansur family (Lebanese ancestry) maintain their Venezuelan passports. Conveniently, the Mansurs maintain economic activities in Puento Fijo, Coro, Caracas and Maracaibo Venezuela. These economic activities, despite their monopoly on many tradable commodities, center on the more clandestine forms of money laundering and drug trafficking. Exchanges between Aruba and Venezuela occur routinely with the use of fastboats, owned by the Mansur family.

In recent years, Aruba has shed the Mansur-controlled AVP in favor of Gilberto Francois Croes' (Betico Croes) Movemento Electoral di Pueblo (MEP). Upon the murder of Betico Croes (accredited to Jossy Mansur), Nelson Oduber assumed the reigns of the MEP. In cooperation with the United States' Drug Enforcement Agency (DEA), Nelson Oduber's MEP enacted strict banking codes in order to allow the central bank of Aruba (cba) to hamper money laundering activities in Aruba. Banking codes, similar to the American policies requiring suspicious activities reports (SARs), were required to be filed whenever suspicious banking transactions occurred within the Aruban financial institutions, specially, the Intercon Financial Bank (infamous trafficking bank) and the Interbank (owned by the Mansur family). Clearly, the actions of the MEP upon the Aruban financial industry were detrimental to the money laundering and drug trafficking activities of the criminal elements operating between Venezuela and Aruba.
Update [hat tip - George( comments below)] : For confirmation that the Mansur clan has dirty hands in drug trafficking, money laundering and worse, look at their connections to terrorism, such as with Hezbollah:
(...) According to El Espectador, Mohamed Ali Farhad has been linked to a money laundering investigation that involved the Aruba-based Mansur clan of Eric and Alexander Mansur, who controlled cigarette smuggling in the 1990s through the Mansur Free Zone Trading Company N.V., with its main offices in the Netherlands Antilles. 120 The Mansurs inherited a smuggling and drug trafficking empire established in the islands by the Cosa Nostra's Cuntrera-Caruana clan, when it began to work in Venezuela with Cali Cartel organizations.
(...) Until the U.S. indictment of the Mansur brothers for money laundering, Philip Morris' main (118 Vheadline.com (Venezuela), April 1, 2000. 119 Castillo. 120 Ibid. Library of Congress - Federal Research Division Narcotics-Funded Terrorist/Extremist Groups) distributor in Latin America was the Mansur Free Zone Trading Company, N.V.121 According to a lawsuit filed against Philip Morris in 2000 by the governors of 25 of Colombia's 32 departments, plus the capital district of Bogotá, the company sold tobacco to smugglers in exchange for narco dollars, in what is commonly referred to as the Black Market Peso Exchange (BMPE). "Instead of repatriating narco dollars from their U.S. sales points, money launderers simply use them to purchase goods, which are then exported to Colombia and other Latin American countries and sold for pesos," according to the lawsuit. "The pesos then flow into the Colombian bank accounts of the drug barons."Allegedly, much of the proceeds garnered by the Mansur brothers went to Hizballah. - End item.


Although the money laundering potential on Aruba is limited, the true explosive and rewarding market for drug proceeds is the United States of America where the monies can be integrated into a plethora of investment structures, and the Mansurs have been in a position to capitalize on it (as have been the terrorists via the Mansurs). Huge American financial institutions (billions of dollars in assets) can employ these funds into the startup phases of risky investments, such as urban development projects.

In order to exploit the potential of the American financial markets, Aruba's financial oversight needed to be relaxed in order to allow drug trafficking proceeds to flow unhampered by regulations. In a sense, the marriage between the MEP and the American DEA needed to be divorced. In the fall of 2005, Aruba would entertain a national election. Clearly, if the AVP could pick additional members of parliament sufficient to take control of the government (11 ministers required for control), they could oust the MEP and commence relaxing the oversight of the Aruban banking community. A plot to discredit the MEP could provide such avenue for success.

If we grant the commencement scenario that AmSouth Bank was involved with the Interbank of Aruba and the Banco de la Construccion of Venezuela, we have a motivated group with which to entertain a caper, designed to discredit and topple the MEP.
http://www.hyscience.com/archives/2005/10/harrytho_1023_n.php
There is much more to this post at the PP - it goes into the accusations Luis Emilio Mansur and Jossy Mehsen Mansur are accused of. They deny the claims (and say it violates their rights)
http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27039

Registery of Businesses
JOSSY MANSUR REAL ESTATE NV
Business address SASAKIWEG Z/N, NOORD
Legal form LIMITED LIABILITY COMPANY
Name of the company JOSSY MANSUR REAL ESTATE NV
Statutory seat ARUBA
Date of incorporation 15 MARCH 1995
Authorized capital ARUBAN FLORINS 50,000.00
Issued capital ARUBAN FLORINS 10,000.00
Paid up capital ARUBAN FLORINS 10,000.00
Fiscal year 01 JANUARY thru 31 DECEMBER
DIRECTORS - AUTHORIZED PERSONS AND CORPORATE BODIES - SUPERVISORY BOARD:
MANSUR, JOSSY MEHSEN;
Residing in IERLANDSTRAAT 10, ORANJESTAD, ARUBA
Born in ARUBA on 7 JUNE 1934
Nationality DUTCH  Possibly a dual citizenship if born on Aruba?
Position MANAGING DIRECTOR
Effective 15 MARCH 1995
Authority FULL

Decision on admissibility
1. The authors of the communication are Luis Emilio Mansur and Jossy Mehsen Mansur, Dutch citizens  ???  who are residents of Aruba. They claim to be victims of violations by the Kingdom of the Netherlands of their rights under articles 2 and 17 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights. The victims are represented by Dr. Jan M. Sjöcrona of The Hague, the Netherlands and Mr. John H. Van der Kuyp of Oranjestad, Aruba.
[2.1 The authors are members of the business community in Aruba. Among other enterprises Luis Emilio Mansur is co-owner of a shipping company and Jossy Mehren Mansur is owner and editor-in-chief of a newspaper and co-owner of a trading company.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 09, 2008, 05:55:37 PM
SS
No doubt he could indeed be Shango...that seems to be a popular guess..but it's only that at this point...a guess.  I and many other monkeys have been trying really hard to connect Freddy, Ernesto, and Jossy.  Still, you must remember this, Shango is speaking of the underbelly of Aruba and he distances the Kalpoes and Joran as much as possible.  Shango's postings do everything possible to convince the reader that the Kalpoes were not there when the deed happened and that Joran was just in the wrong place at the wrong time.  Shango places the blame on those that can't be touched...that is not a good place to stand if you are Jossy.  It would mean that you knew all this time what happened and did nothing about it.  JMO


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 09, 2008, 06:14:01 PM
Hmmm...

If Jossy was born on Aruba to Venezuelan parents, his citizenship is dual Venezuelan/Aruban.  If he later applies for Dutch citizenship, he becomes Dutch/Aruban and maybe or maybe not Venezuelan, anymore.  As Dutch/Aruban he gets a nice benefit.  The interesting question is how could he qualify for the Dutch citizenship if his parents were Lebanese from Venezuela and he was born on Aruba?  Wouldn't he be required to live in the Netherlands in order to go through the citizenship process?  He went to school in the US, but he did he ever have residency in Holland?  He does have a home in Florida. I wonder what country Jossy is actually a citizen of?

__________________________________

There is Federal Income Tax in Aruba, and no Dutch State Tax. The Dutch don't have to pay tax when they maintain their dual citizenship, Dutch Aruban. This is a public corruption hated by all the local Arubans.

http://arubanboycott.blogspot.com/2007/02/arubas-increase-in-taxes-killing.html



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 09, 2008, 06:19:59 PM
LaLa's,

Do Mansur interests in Maracaibo = Freddy and Ernesto?

Hmm


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 09, 2008, 06:22:27 PM
LaLa's,

Do Mansur interests in Maracaibo = Freddy and Ernesto?

Hmm

I think we have some monkeys working on just that subject...will let you know if they find anything of value.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 09, 2008, 06:39:11 PM
Dutch Citizenship

Birth in the Netherlands from non-Dutch parents (both being no Dutch subjects, or the mother being no Dutch subject if the father is unknown) confers Dutch citizenship only if:

the child and one of the parents are residents of the Netherlands, the Dutch Antilles or Aruba, and
at the time of birth of that parent, one of his or her parents was a resident of one of these countries.

The option procedure is a simpler and quicker way of acquiring Dutch citizenship compared to naturalisation. In effect, it is a form of simplified naturalisation.

In order to be eligible for the option procedure, it is necessary to hold a Dutch residence permit and belong to one of the following categories:

the person is of age, born in the Netherlands and has lived in the Netherlands, the Dutch Antilles or Aruba continuously since birth.  
born in the Netherlands, the Dutch Antilles or Aruba, and lived there for an uninterrupted period of at least three years and since birth the applicant has not had a nationality (i.e. the person is stateless).
the person is of age and has legally lived in the Netherlands, the Dutch Antilles or Aruba since age four.
the person is of age, a former Dutch citizen and has lived in the Netherlands, the Dutch Antilles or Aruba for at least one year on the basis of a permanent residence permit or a residence permit for a non-temporary residence objective.
married to a Dutch citizen for at least three years and has legally lived in the Netherlands, the Dutch Antilles or Aruba for an uninterrupted period of at least 15 years.
aged 65 or over and has legally lived in the Netherlands, the Dutch Antilles or Aruba for an uninterrupted period of at least 15 years.
a minor, are acknowledged by a Dutch citizen who has been cared for and brought up by this Dutch citizen for an uninterrupted period of at least three years.
a minor who, as a result of a Court decision or by law at the time of your birth, is under the joint custody of a non-Dutch father or mother and another person who is a Dutch citizen. Since the start of this custody the person has been cared for and brought up by this Dutch citizen for a period of at least three years and since then has also had a principal place of residence in the Netherlands.
Applicants for Dutch citizenship through the option procedure do not have to renounce any foreign citizenship they hold.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_nationality_law#Dual_citizenship
--------------

So, it looks like Jossy could actually claim tri-citizenship which would be Venezuela through one or both parents, Aruba by birth, and the Netherlands by birth on Aruba with continual residence, and he wouldn't have to renounce any former citizenship.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 09, 2008, 07:20:16 PM
SS…Hit and run…Sorry..
The only places I can put Ernesto are Bradenton and Miami Florida. I can’t find him in Porlamar Venezuela or New York, as of now. The link that Kermit has posted on the previous page is for Bradenton Prep. School that does have ties to overseas schools. I was unable to get very far with that.

But on people searches I find Bradenton as a previous place he has resided. Do you have any way to find out if this school actually has residences…ie some students live in? Any more info on him??

I believe Ernesto was in Florida as early as 1991, can’t prove it, but I can’t prove he was in Venezuela either!

Well maybe I can prove he was in  Florida in 1991….just not at his moment… ::MonkeyWink::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on June 09, 2008, 07:58:06 PM
LaLa's - I know that Jossy has been a wonderful help to Beth and to Natalee's cause.  Everyone is grateful for what he has done......BUT, Jossy and his family have a dark and deep history of corruption. They are not clean.  The information that emerged from the BAT scandal was not pretty.  They own so much of that island.  In those BAT documents, I think I read that Jossy even maintains a Venezuelan citizenship which could be a connection to Freddy and Ernesto.  Are they related somehow, legitimately or illegitimately?  I just hate to disparage Jossy because of all that he has done and for what he continues to do, however, a man with his power on that small island knows exactly what happened that night.  I believe that he could break the entire case open.  I feel that he helps us only to a certain extent.  I also feel that the help that he has given may be political motivated because he has a few personal scores to settle. I have always felt that he could be Shango.  I also don't trust him.




Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 11:31 am
I am from Aruba…and it is tragically funny to read how most of you speculate with information you read or see an CNN and Fox News.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 11:56 am
Who said that they all had sex with her? Nobody did as far as I know.
We have seen exclusive footage here in Aruba from our local news that CNN and Fox News did not have. According to our local reporters the Americans were asleep at the hotel.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 2:15 pm
To: jon Says:
June 22nd, 2005 at 1:33 pm

I did not say anything. You people wanted to know what is going down? Well, that is what is going down. That is the information in the circles and in the press in Aruba. Which for some reason is being send out through CNN and Fox News.  For the umpteenth time…the FBI is in Aruba and is involved with the case.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 4:23 pm
The news in Aruba has reported that Joran has shut down.

Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 11:17 am
Waiting for a call…

Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 2:23 pm
The older Van Der Sloot has been taken in again by Aruban Police.
Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 2:27 pm
Can’t confirm that he is detained. He has been taken in again by the authorities.
Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 2:46 pm
Confirmed. He has been detained

Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 2:53 pm
Has Greta not learned yet that we don’t charge our people until trial???

Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 2:58 pm
One of the Kalpoes might be let go. Can’t confirm.

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 3:31 pm
The father was confronted with evidence. Can’t confirm if it’s from the cars of the house. They needed this to make him talk.

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 3:54 pm
I can confirm they are there. The 3 of them. Remember the Kalpoes know nothing they were informed aournd the pool deck by Joran.

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 4:20 pm
TexasBelle, he is the owner and publisher of the largest newspaper in Aruba. A well-respected man. He just painted scenarios. Just like the 24-hour news media has painted out of proportion scenarios about the island itself.

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 5:36 pm
TexasBelle you American Imperialist mind is wrapped around it’s own greatness. Now if the Houston Chronicle were as big as Le Monde than I would be impressed.

I also hope that Natalee will be found and returned to the US togther with the blood-thristy, a- life-for-ratings media that is so loved.

No battle. The man on the inside will call soon. The confrontation will last all night. The boy’s arrogance will be his downfall.

AllyinMiami Says: June 27th, 2005 at 12:11 pm
he said to keep watching the news, and that he apologizes for the confusion , but he is tired of people trying to impersonate him

Simian Says: June 28th, 2005 at 2:09 am
The Simian is disapointed. The Simian repeats himself seldom, but like to say the he only reports ahead of time. The clues were solely to avoid implicating sources. Never to hurt the feeling of the readers.
Seeing how this has been used to foul, the Simian will again say that he will retire.


Simian Says: June 28th, 2005 at 2:21 am
The Simian doesn’t make predictions. Only gives the group information ahead of time. Predictions are for fools. This is the Simian.

Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 2:45 am
Shango finds it very humorous (and quite fitting) that a frenchman would assume the monniker of a Primate

Simian Says: June 28th, 2005 at 2:50 am
As opposed to? Crack a book some time…




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 09, 2008, 08:07:42 PM
SS…Hit and run…Sorry..
The only places I can put Ernesto are Bradenton and Miami Florida. I can’t find him in Porlamar Venezuela or New York, as of now. The link that Kermit has posted on the previous page is for Bradenton Prep. School that does have ties to overseas schools. I was unable to get very far with that.

But on people searches I find Bradenton as a previous place he has resided. Do you have any way to find out if this school actually has residences…ie some students live in? Any more info on him??

I believe Ernesto was in Florida as early as 1991, can’t prove it, but I can’t prove he was in Venezuela either!

Well maybe I can prove he was in  Florida in 1991….just not at his moment… ::MonkeyWink::



Hi Mum,

I did read the post about Bradenton.  Most of my databases are for post-secondary/college level because I don't have a lot of activity involving kids transferring to other secondary, private, or prep level schools, especially between where I am located and Florida.  Tomorrow, when I get to my office computer, I will see what I can come up with.  Some prep schools do include a "Junior College" component which is the equivalent of the first two years of college or an Associate of Arts degree.  Military schools often do this.  These "Junior College" or "Prep" programs are usually for kids who aren't socially or academically prepared for a regular four year college program.  I don't recall that Kermit's post indicated whether Ernesto had completed a high school/secondary level or the two year post-secondary level.  I'll see what I can dig up.

I am now thinking of a Maracaibo connection in terms of a Mansur relative or possibly someone who is a loyal employee of the Mansurs in Maracaibo.  Have we ever been able to determine who Freddy's father is and whether Freddy and Ernesto have the same father?  Ernesto doesn't seem to use the name Zedan.  Is Rodriquez the mother's maiden name?  Those multiple names make me crazy.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Observer on June 09, 2008, 08:43:27 PM
I see 5 addresses in Miami for Ernesto Arambatzis since July 2001

Also there is there is 6 addresses for Jossy Mansur in Miami. One of them has two Jossy Mansurs listed at same address. Could me a mistake.

JOSSY M MANSUR Born  Jun 1934
JOSSY E MANSUR Born  Jun 1962 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 09, 2008, 09:00:43 PM
Bradenton Prep

This is just a K-12 private school.  There are students who are boarders as well as local students.  They have an international focus, probably for financial growth.  They are actually opening a campus in Dubai.  The school has all of the current buzz words on their website that do little more than blow a lot of smoke in the direction of one's posterior.  They have also established a very comprehensive use of computer classes.  This is a technique which allows a small school to increase curriculum offerings without paying for additional teachers.  The kids take online classes.  In other words, it's big business.  The school does have an accreditation.

I found something very interesting.  They were cited for some pretty big athletic violations.  Most K-12 schools don't get involved in this kind of nonsense.  This is stuff that we usually hear about involving colleges and the NCAA.  The administration sounds pretty sleazy based on this report.

Hillsborough County:
 

 

Prep School Issued Record Breaking Fine
Posted By Nick Williams at Jun 09, 2008 at 03:34 PM
Updated Jun 09, 2008 at 05:08 PM


Bradenton Preparatory, a small private school in Manatee County, has been fined $38,000 and placed on probation by the Florida High School Athletic Association for violating 19 FHSAA regulations, mainly recruiting violations in its football, boys’ tennis and basketball programs. The fine is the largest ever assessed by the FHSAA and is the largest number of allegations against one member school, FHSAA spokesperson Cristina Alvarez said.

According to a release issued by the FHSAA, the investigation began last November when the organization received information from several member schools, as well as a member of the FHSAA Board of Directors.

Alvarez said the school was initially fined over $60,000, but because the administration cooperated, the fines were decreased. Bradenton went as far as terminating two athletic directors, two basketball coaches and changing its admission form to appease the FHSAA.

“They are doing whatever it takes to get back under good standings,” Alvarez said.

Alvarez said the school can present its case before the Infractions Appeals Committee in July, but if Bradenton rejects the committee’s decision, it will have to wait until September to appeal its case to the Board of Directors.

Bradenton Prep was closed when reached for comment.

Here is a summary of the investigation:

• Seven student-athletes were improperly contacted by a parent, outside agents and/or college recruiters;
• Three student-athletes lived with a representative of the school’s athletic interest;
• Bradenton Prep violated FHSAA Policy 9 (the falsification of the FHSAA Financial Report Form for a Preseason Spring Classic Football Game);
• Three student-athletes violated FHSAA Bylaw 11.4.10 (transferring while under disciplinary sanctions at his/her former school); and
• Five student-athletes violated FHSAA Policy 38, Section 6.0 (financial assistance).

Bradenton Prep took the following proactive measures, including proposed consequences, for the violation of FHSAA regulations:
• Two Athletic Directors employed by the school are no longer employed;
• Two basketball coaches at the time of the incidents are no longer employed by the school;
• The school will hold a meeting with the entire coaching staff each semester to discuss the FHSAA rules including those related to recruiting;
• The school will require all students interested in financial assistance to complete all necessary TADS forms;
• The school will require all coaches to sign a contract stating that they understand and agree that they are prohibited from communicating with any recruiters, parents who may be acting a recruiter, or recruiting agencies in any manner;
• The school will change its application for admission form to specifically ask if the applicant has “ever been suspended, expelled or withdrawn from any school for any reason”; and
• The school will pay a fine deemed appropriate by the FHSAA.

Considering the cooperation and proactive measures taken by the school balanced with the significance of the violations, the following penalties were imposed in this case:

1. Reprimand.

2. Bradenton Prep’s basketball, football and boys’ tennis programs are placed on restrictive probation for a period of three years beginning with the 2008-09 school year and ending at the conclusion of the 2010-11 school year. For the three-year period, the following restrictions are imposed:
• The school cannot participate in the state series competition for the aforementioned sports;
• The school can only participate in regular contests. The school is not allowed to participate in any pre-season or post-season classics/jamborees;
• The school cannot participate against out-of-state teams, with the exception of participation against out-of-state teams during regular season tournaments; and
• The school cannot participate in home game broadcasts on television or radio.

3. The school is fined an accumulated $38,000.

http://www.tboblogs.com/index.php/sports/story/bradenton-prep-fined-38000-by-fhsaa/


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 09, 2008, 09:23:31 PM
Mum,

I have found some basic information about Bradenton Prep, but I will keep looking.  A few things jumped out at me from their website.

- They are showing a very diverse group of students, which means that they are probably pushing for international applicants.  International students = money, because many wealthy foreign parents want their kids educated in the US.

- There are very few photographs of the campus and nothing is available about residential dormatories.  The front of a building which was shown looks new and very nice.

- I have been unable to find any information about their tuition or resdiential fees.  This tells me that it is probably expensive and I wonder who paid Ernesto's tuition bill?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 09, 2008, 10:34:32 PM
SS…Thanks…This is the only Arambatzis that came up in Venezuela…JE found it a while back. There is a Robby in Aruba. A young pitcher, as in kid I believe, vms found this and we have Lillian Regina Arambatzis Rodriguez Albert = supposedly Freddy’s mom??

Caps said Zedan=0   Arambatzis=2…Did ‘Freddy' leave??

Robby - Aruba
http://solodipueblo.com/index.php?option=com_docman&task=doc_view&gid=102

Feb 25, 2008 ... ARAMBATZIS PEREZ ROBBY GERARDUS from JE’s Link From Dr Phil docs… Name: Luis Guillermo Rodriguez Date:22 July 2005 Pages: 5 ...
scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1952.2620 - 137k - Cached - Similar pages


REP de Diciembre de 2007.
6 066 613   ARAMBATZIS PEREZ ROBBY GERARDUS   ♂   52


http://www.esdata.info/centro/38162/electores/1

Working on Ernesto’s mom…….

Anyone know who owns that newspaper?...TIA







         



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 09, 2008, 11:10:30 PM
Everyone..thanks for your responses on Ernesto...been trying to catch up ... still way behind and heaps of links of open...again thanks!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: hotping on June 10, 2008, 01:00:35 AM
Mum I sent You some info on Ernesto through Lala's....I hope it helps.... ::MonkeyCool::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 10, 2008, 01:12:47 AM
Can someone explain how these last names work for the women?  With the name Lillian Regina Arambatzis Rodriguez Albert, which name is the maiden name and which name(s) are married names?  Where does Zedan come in here?  If Arambatzis is a maiden name, maybe Ernesto was born before she was married.  Is there possibly a paternity obligation to educate a son in an expensive school?   Did Freddy go to the local high school?   Hmmm


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: vms on June 10, 2008, 01:16:57 AM
DJ Johnny the Boy

MANAGEMENT:
ERNESTO ARAMBATZIS
management@johnnytheboy.com

http://www.johnnytheboy.com/

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a398/vms58/Ernesto6.jpg)

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a398/vms58/Ernesto5.jpg)


********************


Florida Limited Liability Company 
ERNESTO ARAMBATZIS CONSULTING GROUP, LLC
Filing Information
Document Number L08000009286
FEI Number NONE
Date Filed 01/25/2008
State FL
Status ACTIVE
Effective Date 01/25/2008
 
Principal Address
7934 WEST DRIVE
LOFT 1001
NORTH BAY VILLAGE FL 33141 US
Mailing Address
7934 WEST DRIVE
LOFT 1001
NORTH BAY VILLAGE FL 33141 US
Registered Agent Name & Address
ARAMBATZIS, ERNESTO
7934 WEST DRIVE
LOFT 1001
NORTH BAY VILLAGE FL 33141 US
Manager/Member Detail
Name & Address
Title MGRM
ARAMBATZIS, ERNESTO
7934 WEST DRIVE, LOFT 1001
NORTHBAY VILLAGE FL 33141 US

Link (http://www.sunbiz.org/scripts/cordet.exe?action=DETFIL&inq_doc_number=L08000009286&inq_came_from=OFFFWD&cor_web_names_seq_number=0001&names_name_ind=P&ret_names_cor_number=&ret_cor_web_names_seq_number=&ret_names_name_ind=&ret_names_comp_name=&ret_names_filing_type=&ret_cor_web_princ_seq=&ret_princ_comp_name=ARAMBATZIS&ret_princ_type=)

http://www.sunbiz.org/COR/2008/0128/60110396.tif


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: hotping on June 10, 2008, 01:32:36 AM

VMS Great Find!  ::MonkeyCool:: ::MonkeyWink::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: hotping on June 10, 2008, 01:35:45 AM
VMS...That's really weird about His address on the consulting firm....He also listed it in Jan 2006 as his home address on His DL ..hmmmm


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: vms on June 10, 2008, 01:38:10 AM
VMS...That's really weird about His address on the consulting firm....He also listed it in Jan 2006 as his home address on His DL ..hmmmm

Is this it, Hotping?

7934 West Drive Unit 1001 Miami FL 33137

SPACE 01 Unit 1001 New York Style Lofts with panoramic water views of Biscayne Bay and the Miami Skyline. 2 bedrooms, 2 baths, 1919 sq ft. 11.6" ceiling heights and floor to ceiling windows. Italian design kitchen. 2 covered car garage and security entrance system. Heated lap pool and spa at roof top level Modern Fitness Center overlooking the Bay. Designer fixtures in bathrooms. Decorator ready floors. Condo Maintenance Fee: $270.32/mth. Currently listed for $709,000

http://www.proxibid.com/asp/LotDetail.asp?ahid=1509&aid=5265&lid=1673407&aiid=1


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: hotping on June 10, 2008, 02:15:10 AM
VMS...That's really weird about His address on the consulting firm....He also listed it in Jan 2006 as his home address on His DL ..hmmmm

Is this it, Hotping?

7934 West Drive Unit 1001 Miami FL 33137

SPACE 01 Unit 1001 New York Style Lofts with panoramic water views of Biscayne Bay and the Miami Skyline. 2 bedrooms, 2 baths, 1919 sq ft. 11.6" ceiling heights and floor to ceiling windows. Italian design kitchen. 2 covered car garage and security entrance system. Heated lap pool and spa at roof top level Modern Fitness Center overlooking the Bay. Designer fixtures in bathrooms. Decorator ready floors. Condo Maintenance Fee: $270.32/mth. Currently listed for $709,000

http://www.proxibid.com/asp/LotDetail.asp?ahid=1509&aid=5265&lid=1673407&aiid=1
Yes.....One in the Same!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: finngirl on June 10, 2008, 02:55:30 AM

the show of hands re Jossy was interesting

thanks to everyone who weighed in  :wink:



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: vms on June 10, 2008, 09:47:48 AM
Welcome to North Bay Village Florida
Shop, Dine, Travel & Explore North Bay Village Florida. Think Global. Live Local. Go Green.

Welcome to the North Bay Village Florida Vacation Guide and Local Directory.  The Beach Life North Bay Village is an online directory that connects businesses with customers without cutting down a single tree. Save money, save time, save the environment ... start your search online!  Our mission is to create community in a global world and we have been doing just that since 2001!

Updated 04/28/2008

<snipped>

ERNESTO ARAMBATZIS CONSULTING GROUP, LLC North Bay Village Florida 33141

http://www.tblife.com/northbayvillage/


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 10, 2008, 03:22:27 PM
Mum - I have found nothing more on Bradenton Prep, not even a tuition amount,  They probably aren't publishing the tuition and it may be only available through direct admissions inquiries.


I have a question.  I recall reading in one of Urine's many fairy tale statements that he went to Freddy's house and waited until Freddy came home.  I recall something about Urine talking to Freddy's sister.  Am I confused with someone else or does Freddy have a sister?  Does anyone know what her last name is?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 10, 2008, 03:55:37 PM
Mum - I have found nothing more on Bradenton Prep, not even a tuition amount,  They probably aren't publishing the tuition and it may be only available through direct admissions inquiries.


I have a question.  I recall reading in one of Urine's many fairy tale statements that he went to Freddy's house and waited until Freddy came home.  I recall something about Urine talking to Freddy's sister.  Am I confused with someone else or does Freddy have a sister?  Does anyone know what her last name is?


Thanks SS...sister Ghis/sp...vms posted the birthday pic, from that newspaper that posted the tennis pic...who owns that darn thing???only one I came up with at the time was Arends?? Got that from a Betico Croes Run results, have found 2 since and one is a pretty close match to the tennis pic...will have to search my notes find the links!

I found the last two by following Facebook friends and have a last name on one nothing like any we have heard associated with Freddy!

I am suspicious of that paper, as numerous searches on numerous peeps has taken me to the edition with the 2004 tennis article on Freddy and Joran. This is how Freddy was identified in August of 2005. I tried to follow that article back...and I was satisfied at the time as I found an article not connected to the case on an independant website. Now I am not so sure...I will have to find my post and the independanr website again!!!!

Also Sasha Rodriguez...there are some pics of her already posted...one at Moombas and one at her 15th. birthday party! With Ernesto, Freddy and an older man...unidentified! This puts Ernesto in Aruba in March of 2005 IIRC.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 10, 2008, 04:02:32 PM
Mum - I have found nothing more on Bradenton Prep, not even a tuition amount,  They probably aren't publishing the tuition and it may be only available through direct admissions inquiries.


I have a question.  I recall reading in one of Urine's many fairy tale statements that he went to Freddy's house and waited until Freddy came home.  I recall something about Urine talking to Freddy's sister.  Am I confused with someone else or does Freddy have a sister?  Does anyone know what her last name is?


Thanks SS...sister Ghis/sp...vms posted the birthday pic, from that newspaper that posted the tennis pic...who owns that darn thing???only one I came up with at the time was Arends?? Got that from a Betico Croes Run results, have found 2 since and one is a pretty close match to the tennis pic...will have to search my notes find the links!

I found the last two by following Facebook friends and have a last name on one nothing like any we have heard associated with Freddy!

I am suspicious of that paper, as numerous searches on numerous peeps has taken me to the edition with the 2004 tennis article on Freddy and Joran. This is how Freddy was identified in August of 2005. I tried to follow that article back...and I was satisfied at the time as I found an article not connected to the case on an independant website. Now I am not so sure...I will have to find my post and the independanr website again!!!!

Also Sasha Rodriguez...there are some pics of her already posted...one at Moombas and one at her 15th. birthday party! With Ernesto, Freddy and an older man...unidentified! This puts Ernesto in Aruba in March of 2005 IIRC.



SS and Finn...the facebook I followed had the initials D.M....Interesting friends! ::MonkeyWink::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 10, 2008, 04:10:05 PM
Mum - I have found nothing more on Bradenton Prep, not even a tuition amount,  They probably aren't publishing the tuition and it may be only available through direct admissions inquiries.


I have a question.  I recall reading in one of Urine's many fairy tale statements that he went to Freddy's house and waited until Freddy came home.  I recall something about Urine talking to Freddy's sister.  Am I confused with someone else or does Freddy have a sister?  Does anyone know what her last name is?


Thanks SS...sister Ghis/sp...vms posted the birthday pic, from that newspaper that posted the tennis pic...who owns that darn thing???only one I came up with at the time was Arends?? Got that from a Betico Croes Run results, have found 2 since and one is a pretty close match to the tennis pic...will have to search my notes find the links!

I found the last two by following Facebook friends and have a last name on one nothing like any we have heard associated with Freddy!

I am suspicious of that paper, as numerous searches on numerous peeps has taken me to the edition with the 2004 tennis article on Freddy and Joran. This is how Freddy was identified in August of 2005. I tried to follow that article back...and I was satisfied at the time as I found an article not connected to the case on an independant website. Now I am not so sure...I will have to find my post and the independanr website again!!!!

Also Sasha Rodriguez...there are some pics of her already posted...one at Moombas and one at her 15th. birthday party! With Ernesto, Freddy and an older man...unidentified! This puts Ernesto in Aruba in March of 2005 IIRC.




All of her kids seem to have different last names.  Freddy's mother must have been breeding like a rabbit.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: sharon on June 10, 2008, 09:14:11 PM
This one, Sharon?


MOON OVER SKYBAR:
The Thursday night party at SkyBar has always had a large model following and often the party resembled a casting session with gorgeous young faces (and bodies) posed eternally on the beds around the pool. Since most of the models have grabbed their portfolios and made a fashionable exit along with the tourists I predicted an un-crowded party. WRONG! The place was packed and let me be the first to tell you…all the models haven’t left. Under an incredibly beautiful full moon, the beautiful and trendy partied and cuddled (on the beds). Many gathered to say goodbye (he’ll be back) to Ernesto Arambatzis who has moved to New York City. Some even danced to the sounds of DJ Nayib Esteban. SEEN: Jason Binn (he’s engaged), Jacquelynn D. Powers, Ernesto Arambatzis (who’s leaving us for NYC), Jose Ortiz (who’s leaving us for L.A.), Eddie Smith, promoters Erica Freshman and Zack Bush, stylish fashionistas Alicia & Dre, and photographer Seth Browarnik.   

http://www.miamisunpost.com/archives/2003/04-24-03/Nightlife.htm

 ::MonkeyHaHa::

Yes. That one.  ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: sharon on June 10, 2008, 09:16:49 PM
Mum

I'm looking but striking out. Most of the 'links' I saved -- many of them cached -- no longer work.

Sout out to vms....vms has a 'data center' wroth of stuff. I believe the frog has this stuff too ::MonkeyLaugh:: The article from the 'going away party' for Ernesto. He left Miami for New York. I think it was 2003.

Here's a link to a nother picture of Ernie. Not sure if you've seen this one. (some of my old links still work)


http://www.southbeach-usa.com/clubs/misc/stage/stage1.htm


July 21, 2006

MOON OVER SKYBAR: The Thursday night party at SkyBar has always had a large model following and often the party resembled a casting session with gorgeous young faces (and bodies) posed eternally on the beds around the pool. Since most of the models have grabbed their portfolios and made a fashionable exit along with the tourists I predicted an un-crowded party. WRONG! The place was packed and let me be the first to tell you…all the models haven’t left. Under an incredibly beautiful full moon, the beautiful and trendy partied and cuddled (on the beds). Many gathered to say goodbye (he’ll be back) to Ernesto Arambatzis who has moved to New York City. Some even danced to the sounds of DJ Nayib Esteban. SEEN: Jason Binn (he’s engaged), Jacquelynn D. Powers, Ernesto Arambatzis (who’s leaving us for NYC), Jose Ortiz (who’s leaving us for L.A.), Eddie Smith, promoters Erica Freshman and Zack Bush, stylish fashionistas Alicia & Dre, and photographer Seth Browarnik.   

http://www.miamisunpost.com/archives/2003/04-24-03/Nightlife.htm



 ::MonkeyLaugh::

Applause, again!

Thanks Pita!

All I have is a memory  ::MonkeyLaugh:: And it's not always so good anymore after 3 years  ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Rob on June 10, 2008, 11:02:18 PM
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/6cf24bd2-2349-11dd-b214-000077b07658,s01=1.html?nclick_check=1

Conman who stole $224m but fell foul of Castro

By Phil Davison

Published: May 16 2008 19:27 | Last updated: May 16 2008 19:27

Of all the adjectives used to describe him, Robert Vesco – who has died at 72 – was happiest with “financier”. For the son of an Italian immigrant carworker in Detroit, the word had an exotic ring and he did not like to be called a crook, conman, fugitive, mobster, swindler or international drug dealer.

At his peak in the 1970s, he was worth several hundred million pounds (the equivalent of a few billion today), sailed the Caribbean in a Roman Abramovich-style yacht and flew around the world in a private Boeing 707 complete with discotheque, sauna and stewardesses who were particularly attentive to his needs. He named the aircraft the Silver Phyllis although it was not silver and he had no relatives called Phyllis. Apparently, the fact that it sounded like a venereal disease amused him.

Vesco was a self-made man who, as a young entrepreneur, liked to tell strangers he was chief executive of LPI. To the brave who dared ask, he would reply with a grin: Looting and Plundering Incorporated. He first came to world prominence when he took over Bernie Cornfeld’s flagging, Geneva-based Investment Overseas Services in 1970. Billed at the time as a “white knight,” he liked that phrase so much that he rode off into the sunset with, according to US authorities, most of the investors’ money – $224m to be exact. That allowed him to buy the yacht and the plane, which “made Air Force One [the US president’s aircraft] look like a no-frills airline”, according to a friend. The rare photographs of him, craggy-faced, with dark wavy hair, sideburns and designer shades, gave him something of a rock star image.

When he got rumbled by the Feds, he allegedly paid $200,000 (handed over in cash) to a staffer of Maurice Stans, then US commerce secretary and chief fund-raiser for Richard Nixon’s 1972 re-election campaign, to persuade Nixon to halt the US Securities and Exchange Commission investigation against him over the IOS swindle. The alleged bribe did not, in fact, turn the heat off him but it did, according to US court records, help finance the famous Watergate burglary that would eventually bring Nixon down.

Vesco thought owning his own country might help him out of a tight spot, and he could create his own passport, pay no tax and exempt himself from extradition. With the help of an influential political family in Antigua, he tried to establish what he called the Principality of the Sovereign Order of New Aragon, covering part of Antigua’s sister island of Barbuda, which he planned to turn into a “little Monaco in the Caribbean”. After that plan fell through, his attempt to broker the sale of US military aircraft to Colonel Muammer Gaddafi in Libya also ran into problems.

Thereafter, Vesco settled in Cuba and confined himself to simpler pursuits – helping run cocaine to the US via Nicaragua and Cuba, according to a US court deposition – and announcing he had found a citronella-based “miracle drug” called Trioxidal, or TX, that could cure cancer, Aids, arthritis, herpes, you name it, and allow each of us to live for several hundred years by boosting our immune system.

As it turned out, he was jailed in Cuba for fraud before the drug saw the light of day. Fidel Castro, the president, saw through the scam, put Vesco on trial as “a conspirator and agent of foreign secret services”, and had him locked away for 10 years.

True to his lifestyle, the world did not even know until last week that Vesco had died last November 23, or that the unmarked grave outside Havana, Cuba, was his. True to his lifestyle, there are some who wonder if he faked his own death to con the world one last time.

Robert Lee Vesco was born in Detroit on December 4 1935, the son of an Italian father and a Slovenian mother. He made a few bucks by opening bingo halls, bought a machine-parts company which he renamed, revealing the extent of his ambition, the International Controls Corporation, and was a dollar millionaire before he was 30. In 1970, he read about Cornfeld, a fellow American who had used Switzerland’s tax loopholes to run International Investment Services, a hall-of-mirrors corporation aimed at getting credulous people to invest in . . . well, as it turned out, Cornfeld himself. When Vesco came along as a “white knight”, investors were relieved – of the rest of their money.

With the SEC on his tail, Vesco drifted between countries where he could not legally be touched by American authorities: Costa Rica, Nicaragua under the Sandinistas, the Bahamas and finally Cuba, where Mr Castro accepted him as “a persecuted deer” until he fell foul of the Cuban leader.

Vesco, by then with a Canadian passport in the name of Tom Adams, became noted for his wild parties on his 137-foot yacht, for which the Cubans dredged a special berth in the city’s Hemingway Marina. He would pop up on Havana’s only golf course, where locals noted that he always had four caddies, each with a gun-butt protruding from under his guayabera. He liked a few mojitos in what was called the 19th Hole Bar even though it was only a nine-hole course.

When cohorts of Carlos Lehder. the Medellin cocaine baron now jailed in the US, told American investigators Vesco had arranged free passage over Cuba for Mr Lehder’s drugs aircraft to the US, Mr Castro was not pleased. But in the end it was the “miracle drug” scheme that put Vesco into a Cuban jail, from 1995 until 2005.

In 1995, I went to Havana to try to interview Vesco in jail. I failed, but found his partner in the pharmaceutical enterprise, Donald M. Nixon, widely known as Don Don, who happened to be a nephew of the former US president.

Proudly showing me a custom-made Havana cigar in the shape of a large penis, complete with testicles, Don Don told me: “Bob [Vesco] is the most brilliant man I’ve ever met”. Speaking of the drug TX, which got Vesco jailed, Mr Nixon insisted it would have been “the biggest story ever, the biggest breakthrough in the history of man, changing the total social and economic structure of the world . . . worth $10m a month net”.

Robert Lee Vesco is survived by his second wife, Lidia Alonso, and four children.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: finngirl on June 10, 2008, 11:17:13 PM
SS and Finn...the facebook I followed had the initials D.M....Interesting friends! ::MonkeyWink::

throw me a bone, eh?  :wink:

DM = ?



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 10, 2008, 11:47:01 PM
SS and Finn...the facebook I followed had the initials D.M....Interesting friends! ::MonkeyWink::

throw me a bone, eh?  :wink:

DM = ?




LOL...Finn...Who have we been talking about the last few pages? Female relative in Fl with interesting friends...found a Ghis,who didn't look like the Ghis I wanted, but who knows, this is the internet!

Put your name in there Finn, so that SS would read your last post and I wouldn't have to spell it out... ::MonkeyHaHa::



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: CapsLockWizard on June 13, 2008, 04:58:12 AM
Hi monkeys,

Reading and trying to catchup with all the past post..

Got help from the state....

will report later on what is going on after meeting.

CAPS


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Buckeye on June 13, 2008, 05:59:22 AM
Interesting post by sindalle at BFN:

I have always thought that the Freddy telling the true story was just a scapegoat. Because Paulus needed a way to explain why he suddenly knew the truth, when really he knew it all along. He needed to fabricate a way that the truth was delivered to him. So they pretended that Joran spilled his guts to Freddy and Freddy in turn grew a conscience and spilled it all to the parents.

And if, in fact, Freddy was the scapegoat, he was it voluntarily. Which means he knew the truth all along too.

Am I making sense? Say I saw my brother Matt steal five dollars from my mom. And my older brother, Bob,  saw it too, but Bob was supposed to be at school when the theft happened. So, he can't admit he saw Matt take the money, because to do so would be admitting he was where he wasn't supposed to be. So, a few says later he tells my mom that I came to him and confessed what Matt did. He needed a story, someone to pretend told him the truth afterwards. And in turn, I would have to play along and pretend that I told Bobby about Matt taking the money.

Am I making sense at all?

I think Paulus knew what happened to Natalee, but to admit he knew would be admitting wrong doing on his own part. So he made up this story about Freddy coming to his senses and telling him the truth, as Joran told it to him (Freddy). But in order for Paulus to tell that lie, Freddy would have to agree to pretend that he was the one that told Paulus the truth.

In short, I believe that both Freddy and Paulus knew the truth all along.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Helen Back on June 13, 2008, 10:02:40 AM
Hi monkeys,

Reading and trying to catchup with all the past post..

Got help from the state....

will report later on what is going on after meeting.

CAPS

Good to see you here, CAPS.  Sorry I can't stay up late enough to chat with you.......

Keep us posted, OK?

Helen Back


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: truthseeker2 on June 13, 2008, 11:32:50 AM
Interesting post by sindalle at BFN:

I have always thought that the Freddy telling the true story was just a scapegoat. Because Paulus needed a way to explain why he suddenly knew the truth, when really he knew it all along. He needed to fabricate a way that the truth was delivered to him. So they pretended that Joran spilled his guts to Freddy and Freddy in turn grew a conscience and spilled it all to the parents.

And if, in fact, Freddy was the scapegoat, he was it voluntarily. Which means he knew the truth all along too.

Am I making sense? Say I saw my brother Matt steal five dollars from my mom. And my older brother, Bob,  saw it too, but Bob was supposed to be at school when the theft happened. So, he can't admit he saw Matt take the money, because to do so would be admitting he was where he wasn't supposed to be. So, a few says later he tells my mom that I came to him and confessed what Matt did. He needed a story, someone to pretend told him the truth afterwards. And in turn, I would have to play along and pretend that I told Bobby about Matt taking the money.

Am I making sense at all?

I think Paulus knew what happened to Natalee, but to admit he knew would be admitting wrong doing on his own part. So he made up this story about Freddy coming to his senses and telling him the truth, as Joran told it to him (Freddy). But in order for Paulus to tell that lie, Freddy would have to agree to pretend that he was the one that told Paulus the truth.

In short, I believe that both Freddy and Paulus knew the truth all along.


Makes a lot of sense to me.  It would not surprise me if Freddy and Paulus were both there when Natalee met her fate.  The 'meeting' at the Sloots with Freddy could very well have cemented the "you tell them that you told me" scenario.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 13, 2008, 02:28:25 PM
This leads us back to Freddy as the 5th once again...of course.   ::MonkeyWink::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: truthseeker2 on June 13, 2008, 02:51:16 PM
This leads us back to Freddy as the 5th once again...of course.   ::MonkeyWink::

Very likely.  My top two for the 5th suspect have been Freddy and Paulus for a while now.  If Simian meant Lorenzo, I have to remind myself that Simian was passing along info from the ALE.  I have a hard time setting what the ALE says in stone.  Could ALE have been feeding Simian disinformation to deflect for the Sloots guilt??????


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Hotshot on June 14, 2008, 12:59:49 AM
Hi monkeys,

Reading and trying to catchup with all the past post..

Got help from the state....

will report later on what is going on after meeting.

CAPS

Hey caps, say Hi to all for me please.  I am praying is goes well.  Talk soon, email me if you get some time.
Kath


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Silverfox on June 14, 2008, 03:05:07 AM
Interesting post by sindalle at BFN:

I have always thought that the Freddy telling the true story was just a scapegoat. Because Paulus needed a way to explain why he suddenly knew the truth, when really he knew it all along. He needed to fabricate a way that the truth was delivered to him. So they pretended that Joran spilled his guts to Freddy and Freddy in turn grew a conscience and spilled it all to the parents.

And if, in fact, Freddy was the scapegoat, he was it voluntarily. Which means he knew the truth all along too.

Am I making sense? Say I saw my brother Matt steal five dollars from my mom. And my older brother, Bob,  saw it too, but Bob was supposed to be at school when the theft happened. So, he can't admit he saw Matt take the money, because to do so would be admitting he was where he wasn't supposed to be. So, a few says later he tells my mom that I came to him and confessed what Matt did. He needed a story, someone to pretend told him the truth afterwards. And in turn, I would have to play along and pretend that I told Bobby about Matt taking the money.

Am I making sense at all?

I think Paulus knew what happened to Natalee, but to admit he knew would be admitting wrong doing on his own part. So he made up this story about Freddy coming to his senses and telling him the truth, as Joran told it to him (Freddy). But in order for Paulus to tell that lie, Freddy would have to agree to pretend that he was the one that told Paulus the truth.

In short, I believe that both Freddy and Paulus knew the truth all along.


LOL.. thats because the probably both present at the time -- visa vis the white vehicle following Deepak as they left C  C


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 14, 2008, 09:18:37 AM
Silverfox is correct.  Freddy was questioned too many times not to have information ALE wanted.  It may have been a fishing expedition on their part, but they were gnawing at something they thought had meat.

The first statement we can substantiate is on June 12.  Then again on June 13. So was he in custody from June 11?  Seems they began his interview at 11 that morning...I guess Jacobs had finished his corn flakes by then and decided to question Freddy.  They speak to Satish the day before and first thing they do the next day is talk to Freddy....Freddy needs to tell the truth. Then they release the security guards.  Then question Freddy again..does that make anyone else go hmmmm? 

The more you look at that timeline of questioning the more interesting it becomes. Let's not forget that Meneses fellow  they spoke to over and over again...something there in that smoking gun...I wish I could determine what that was.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Silverfox on June 16, 2008, 05:14:50 AM
Lala's

Natalee was taken to an "event"

It all makes sense...

All those names who were floated out there and interrogated were interrogated because they were in attendance at the "event" ... No other explanation really fits...  The reason J2K become the primaries is because they were the last ones seen with her by the general public -- but the insiders?  Well, That entire ordeal....

Remember, "too many people would be hurt if the truth comes out?" Remember that?  That is because too many people were in attendance and actually know what happened.... from the very beginning -- which is why this cover-up is so widespread... too many fingers in the pie, relatives, connections -- from the Oduber boy to the Dompig boy etc., etc....

The reason all of us are spinning around from name to name is because all of us were correct in one form or another -- all these guys were involved and the 'adults" -- the parents had to be the ones to cover it up -- or they all fall, child/parent, child/parent.... etc...etc....

This is MUCH BIGGER than we ever imagined....


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 16, 2008, 06:41:38 AM
Lala's

Natalee was taken to an "event"

It all makes sense...

All those names who were floated out there and interrogated were interrogated because they were in attendance at the "event" ... No other explanation really fits...  The reason J2K become the primaries is because they were the last ones seen with her by the general public -- but the insiders?  Well, That entire ordeal....

Remember, "too many people would be hurt if the truth comes out?" Remember that?  That is because too many people were in attendance and actually know what happened.... from the very beginning -- which is why this cover-up is so widespread... too many fingers in the pie, relatives, connections -- from the Oduber boy to the Dompig boy etc., etc....

The reason all of us are spinning around from name to name is because all of us were correct in one form or another -- all these guys were involved and the 'adults" -- the parents had to be the ones to cover it up -- or they all fall, child/parent, child/parent.... etc...etc....

This is MUCH BIGGER than we ever imagined....


I agree Silverfox…and they had 10 days to put it all in place….and this is why I think Joran is untouchable...mispelt names, mixed up names, initials, addresses, addresses that don’t exist, buildings that weren’t built, maybe even fake pictures and tickle sites….from Aruba to Florida…what a tangled web!!!

I was going to post this when I saw your post….Take some Tylenol Lala’s….remembering a post that Caps made a while back about Freddy Alexander Zedan-Arambatzis Arends….

Freddy – Frederick Arends or Martina, guy in Kia on some sort of porn/video charges

Alexander – Gottenbos

Zedan – ? -still working on it?

Arambatzis – Ernesto

Arends – Max or Frederick




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 16, 2008, 06:48:27 PM
Lala’s….Could this have been how Rudy kept his position even though he didn’t have enough votes?  The Governor had input in the formation of the cabinet?  Is Rudy powerful enough to keep the position or did some-one more powerful make sure he ‘kept’ the position of Minister of Justice?

And if it was the Governor, would he be His Lordship or the Arawak King?

From Wiki…

The Governor of Aruba is the representative on Aruba of the Dutch head of state (Queen Beatrix). The governors duties are twofold: he represents and guards the general interests of the Kingdom and is head of the Aruban Government. He is accountable to the Government of the Kingdom of the Netherlands. As the head of the Government, the Governor is immune….

This under powers at the Governor’s site

The Governor also represents the Queen in Aruba and, consequently, is the head of the Government of Aruba. The Governor is immune and exercises his powers under the responsibility of the ministers, who, in turn, have to report on their actions to Parliament.

And one of my favorites…the Orange Regal Visage…

"Companian" in the Order of Orange Nassau and five "Member" in the Order of Orange Nassau. Mostly, the decorated persons were decorated because of their social or charitable merits in the fields of sports, culture, religion, welfare and education.
 
http://www.kabga.aw/en/index.php?page=de_gouverneur







Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 16, 2008, 07:31:21 PM
Lala's

Natalee was taken to an "event"

It all makes sense...

All those names who were floated out there and interrogated were interrogated because they were in attendance at the "event" ... No other explanation really fits...  The reason J2K become the primaries is because they were the last ones seen with her by the general public -- but the insiders?  Well, That entire ordeal....

Remember, "too many people would be hurt if the truth comes out?" Remember that?  That is because too many people were in attendance and actually know what happened.... from the very beginning -- which is why this cover-up is so widespread... too many fingers in the pie, relatives, connections -- from the Oduber boy to the Dompig boy etc., etc....

The reason all of us are spinning around from name to name is because all of us were correct in one form or another -- all these guys were involved and the 'adults" -- the parents had to be the ones to cover it up -- or they all fall, child/parent, child/parent.... etc...etc....

This is MUCH BIGGER than we ever imagined....
[/quote




You are so correct, Silverfox.  It was a cast of thousands that could have been the extras for the film Road Warrior.  The good news about a lot of people being involved is that eventually someone is going to slip up and talk... if they haven't already done so.  Someone will get angry at one of the others and start singing.  I just wish we could find the right button to push that will speed up the process.  I am hoping that pressure will be put on the Kalpoes.  They are really pretty stupid, Urine has stepped on their toes, their law suit is rapidly going down the hopper, and they could be the ones who will break first.  Let's hope.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Silverfox on June 16, 2008, 08:35:19 PM
Bird on the Wire - By Leonard Cohen

Quote
Like a bird on the wire,
like a drunk in a midnight choir
I have tried in my way to be free.
Like a worm on a hook,
like a knight from some old fashioned book
I have saved all my ribbons for thee.
If I, if I have been unkind,
I hope that you can just let it go by.
If I, if I have been untrue
I hope you know it was never to you.
Like a baby, stillborn,
like a beast with his horn
I have torn everyone who reached out for me.
But I swear by this song
and by all that I have done wrong
I will make it all up to thee.
I saw a beggar leaning on his wooden crutch,
he said to me, "You must not ask for so much."
And a pretty woman leaning in her darkened door,
she cried to me, "Hey, why not ask for more?"

Oh like a bird on the wire,
like a drunk in a midnight choir
I have tried in my way to be free.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 17, 2008, 09:39:16 AM
Oh...Lala's...Thanks vms... ::MonkeyDance::

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 5:36 pm
TexasBelle you American Imperialist mind is wrapped around it’s own greatness. Now if the Houston Chronicle  were as big as Le Monde than I would be impressed.

If you in North America think it’s silly that she might have travelled back to the US. It also seems silly to us in Aruba that she was sold into slavery.

 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 17, 2008, 09:56:43 AM
Texas Monkeys...Help!  How would Simian know about the Houston Chronicle?  Is it a big paper? I have never heard of it, heck I haven't heard of most here in Ohio! Just the really big ones, Columbus, Akron, Cleveland and the local ones!  TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: always 1 on June 17, 2008, 01:14:14 PM
It is the largest paper in Houston, owned by Hearst.  Probably available at Dallas Airport


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: always 1 on June 17, 2008, 01:25:33 PM
Sorry, I should I said, it is the largest paper in Texas..


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 17, 2008, 03:28:23 PM
Texas Monkeys...Help!  How would Simian know about the Houston Chronicle?  Is it a big paper? I have never heard of it, heck I haven't heard of most here in Ohio! Just the really big ones, Columbus, Akron, Cleveland and the local ones!  TIA

Google? LOL  I have my thoughts as to how Simian would know this. It would be the person he knew that told him this...if Simian is who we think...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: truthseeker2 on June 17, 2008, 04:08:12 PM
Texas Monkeys...Help!  How would Simian know about the Houston Chronicle?  Is it a big paper? I have never heard of it, heck I haven't heard of most here in Ohio! Just the really big ones, Columbus, Akron, Cleveland and the local ones!  TIA

Google? LOL  I have my thoughts as to how Simian would know this. It would be the person he knew that told him this...if Simian is who we think...

In the context of the original post, seems I remember that TexasBelle was relaying information she had read in the Houstin Chronicle.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 17, 2008, 04:14:31 PM
Texas Monkeys...Help!  How would Simian know about the Houston Chronicle?  Is it a big paper? I have never heard of it, heck I haven't heard of most here in Ohio! Just the really big ones, Columbus, Akron, Cleveland and the local ones!  TIA

Google? LOL  I have my thoughts as to how Simian would know this. It would be the person he knew that told him this...if Simian is who we think...


Thanks Lala's and always1 for your responses....Does Houston have a big Customs presence at their airport...Stupid question?  Course it does, probably a big International Airport!

SS...today is one of those days that I am convinced this case is way bigger than J2K and their little pimp friends. Way too big for there to ever be Justice for Natalee, and way too big for the truth ever to come out! May be way bigger than even Silverfox imagines!

Why does Joran think he is untouchable?  Why would Val even consider coming to the US to go to school?  Why would his parents even allow it?  Why would INS even give him a student visa? They certainly can deny one to whomever they please, for absolutely no reason...maybe they will! But I bet the Sloots will still vaction in the US... and I bet I have a harder time going through INS than they ever do?? Something Stinks!!!



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: truthseeker2 on June 17, 2008, 04:14:47 PM

And if it was the Governor, would he be His Lordship or the Arawak King?







I'm not Lalasmom but I have posted many times that I believe His Lordship is Fredis J. Refunjol and the Arawak King is Rudy Croes.  I could be wrong, but that is the way I look at the Shango posts when I go back nad read them.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 17, 2008, 08:15:37 PM
Texas Monkeys...Help!  How would Simian know about the Houston Chronicle?  Is it a big paper? I have never heard of it, heck I haven't heard of most here in Ohio! Just the really big ones, Columbus, Akron, Cleveland and the local ones!  TIA

Google? LOL  I have my thoughts as to how Simian would know this. It would be the person he knew that told him this...if Simian is who we think...

In the context of the original post, seems I remember that TexasBelle was relaying information she had read in the Houstin Chronicle.

I think you are correct.  Le Monde is a French daily that has a huge subscription list.  I think it was a comparison to numbers.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 17, 2008, 09:11:25 PM
Texas Monkeys...Help!  How would Simian know about the Houston Chronicle?  Is it a big paper? I have never heard of it, heck I haven't heard of most here in Ohio! Just the really big ones, Columbus, Akron, Cleveland and the local ones!  TIA

Google? LOL  I have my thoughts as to how Simian would know this. It would be the person he knew that told him this...if Simian is who we think...

In the context of the original post, seems I remember that TexasBelle was relaying information she had read in the Houstin Chronicle.

I think you are correct.  Le Monde is a French daily that has a huge subscription list.  I think it was a comparison to numbers.


Thanks Truthseeker and Lala's...point taken...in context...I am reading it now...LOL


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Silverfox on June 18, 2008, 09:31:11 AM
hmmmm....

a Mansur/PVDS connection through Leito?  ******* saying PVDS and Mansur may be part of the same cartel?

Does this start to sound like deja vu?

Or is this too long of a reach..???


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 18, 2008, 10:52:11 AM
hmmmm....

a Mansur/PVDS connection through Leito?  ******* saying PVDS and Mansur may be part of the same cartel?

Does this start to sound like deja vu?

Or is this too long of a reach..???

Good Afternoon to you Silverfox...not too long of a reach....can you tie in a Florida connection....or is that too long of a reach? LOL

Though I did read a post that said that PVDS was instumental in some Mansurs being extradicted. I thought that explained Jossy's disdain for both Joran and Paulus! Have not seen anything else other than that one post, and only did a quick search on it, and don't recall who the poster was. Will see if I can find it, and info on the relatives that were extradicted.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Rob on June 18, 2008, 12:16:57 PM
hmmmm....

a Mansur/PVDS connection through Leito?  ******* saying PVDS and Mansur may be part of the same cartel?

Does this start to sound like deja vu?

Or is this too long of a reach..???

I'm pretty sure they are both in a cartel, I'm just not sure it's the same cartel. I believe PVDS is linked to the Norte Valle Cartel (this cartel has been pretty well busted up over the last year or so) and Mansur is his own cartel.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 18, 2008, 06:15:58 PM
hmmmm....

a Mansur/PVDS connection through Leito?  ******* saying PVDS and Mansur may be part of the same cartel?

Does this start to sound like deja vu?

Or is this too long of a reach..???

You are only reaching across the room in here...several monkeys have information that implicates various people in this cartel.  It certainly makes you wonder, doesn't it?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Rob on June 18, 2008, 06:45:04 PM
say you were part of a cartel and needed a base to operate. You need an area that removes you from the locale. In a sense you are in one place and the cartel's base is located somewhere else. So, you have autonomy in the areas you live and have other legitimate businesses. Follow me so far?

now who lives on Aruba and in Florida? and who owns three islands?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Silverfox on June 19, 2008, 07:33:45 AM
Rob if you are suggesting a "mansur" connection -- to include it's spokesman (Jossy) then you and I are on the same page...

I like Jossy for what he has tried to do -- but to me is is "Dirty Hand" because he has always been in a position to break this case wide open (but somehow falls short) -- including the latest "shoe" debate...

This entire thing is all about power and control.

It is not the first time that a Mansur has been connected to drugs and money laundering -- right?

and the political parties... the elections...

and the children on the elite -- what do they do for entertainment on such a small island with such a small population where the economy is run my the mob...????

Nat was in the wrong place at the wrong time and the cartels are involved and covered it up -- or thought they did, anyway...

PVDS was at that casino... The supreme court also placed him with two contacts direct with Nat... come on folks, do we need a road map here?  PVDS was more involved than what people might think and I still feel he was there... right there when "something bad happened" -- as were a lot of rich kids -- and maybe some rich dads as well ---

but the connections here are like a spider web --- tag one strand and the entire network ripples alerting the spider...

There is bad politics there and drug and money laundering cartels -- and all the bad and evil things that the mob can generate in an area that is volatile to national security... The crime bosses are playing both ends against the middle --- that is why bodies are washing ashore and why one body -- Nats is in never never land --

All it takes is one person -- maybe Melody? to have ethics, feelings, a conscience?

Jossy ? Well he is the reporter that could break this all open.  He knew and walked along side of Beticoe... He knows all houses and he works them all... but his family has a history and this makes his hands dirty cuz he could fix things if he really wants -- he is the 4th estate... he knows the rich, the poor and the faithful... he has the power of the pen... he only needs to let it fry those who need fried...

but, if it is his own cartel that is in trouble (remember, the cartels compete -- in a war against each other...) then his loyalties are splayed... he is torn... power depends on who controls what... then Nat is really nothing to him except his own conscience... He knows about the shoe... He knows about PVDS... the judges... Rudy...

And he has relatives who are part of the "younger" generation -- the kids... the friends of Joran and Oduber and Croes... it is all in the blood -- and blood is thicker than water...

the entire house of cards needs to be taken down...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 19, 2008, 08:46:02 AM
Good Afternoon …You forgot something Silverfox…the meeting in Washington between the Aruban delegates and  US officials! Why was the family not permitted to attend this meeting? Why was Jean Akers at Joran’s release festivities? Why does everything lead us back to Florida?

Why did Shango and Simian post? Why did some of these others posters, that we have found out about post?  Why when we follow these names and addresses around the internet do we keep coming to dead ends and garbage information. Why do some of these peeps only exist on the internet??? Why do some of us feel we are being watched? Are the Arubans really clever enough to put a cover-up of this magnitude together on their own?

Why are the Kalpoes and Joran so cocky? Where is all the money coming from to support Joran’s lifestyle and the Kalpoes court case?  Why has the court case in California not been dismissed?

JMO…Nobody in Aruba is going to talk. The house of cards in Aruba is not going to fall. We will never know the truth, though I hope and pray that Natalee’s family does or will.  There won’t be any books or movies exposing the corruption in Aruba concerning this case. I doubt that any of the original FBI documents will ever see the light of day. And sadly there will never be Justice for Natalee!









Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Helen Back on June 19, 2008, 11:19:16 AM
Good Afternoon …You forgot something Silverfox…the meeting in Washington between the Aruban delegates and  US officials! Why was the family not permitted to attend this meeting? Why was Jean Akers at Joran’s release festivities? Why does everything lead us back to Florida?

Why did Shango and Simian post? Why did some of these others posters, that we have found out about post?  Why when we follow these names and addresses around the internet do we keep coming to dead ends and garbage information. Why do some of these peeps only exist on the internet??? Why do some of us feel we are being watched? Are the Arubans really clever enough to put a cover-up of this magnitude together on their own?

Why are the Kalpoes and Joran so cocky? Where is all the money coming from to support Joran’s lifestyle and the Kalpoes court case?  Why has the court case in California not been dismissed?

JMO…Nobody in Aruba is going to talk. The house of cards in Aruba is not going to fall. We will never know the truth, though I hope and pray that Natalee’s family does or will.  There won’t be any books or movies exposing the corruption in Aruba concerning this case. I doubt that any of the original FBI documents will ever see the light of day. And sadly there will never be Justice for Natalee!









Sorry, Mum.  I must respectfully disagree.  Many nasty, tangled webs such as this one have been untangled, and I believe this one will be as well.  If I didn't believe that, I wouldn't be here. 

There will be Justice for Natalee, and the others who are missing.  I believe it's all related.  All my opinion.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on June 19, 2008, 01:04:49 PM
Texas Monkeys...Help!  How would Simian know about the Houston Chronicle?  Is it a big paper? I have never heard of it, heck I haven't heard of most here in Ohio! Just the really big ones, Columbus, Akron, Cleveland and the local ones!  TIA

Google? LOL  I have my thoughts as to how Simian would know this. It would be the person he knew that told him this...if Simian is who we think...



maybe the Simian is in the news business? he scrutinizes media outlets.....but sings the praises of one......in Aruba


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: CapsLockWizard on June 19, 2008, 01:35:05 PM
Lala's

Natalee was taken to an "event"

It all makes sense...

All those names who were floated out there and interrogated were interrogated because they were in attendance at the "event" ... No other explanation really fits...  The reason J2K become the primaries is because they were the last ones seen with her by the general public -- but the insiders?  Well, That entire ordeal....

Remember, "too many people would be hurt if the truth comes out?" Remember that?  That is because too many people were in attendance and actually know what happened.... from the very beginning -- which is why this cover-up is so widespread... too many fingers in the pie, relatives, connections -- from the Oduber boy to the Dompig boy etc., etc....

The reason all of us are spinning around from name to name is because all of us were correct in one form or another -- all these guys were involved and the 'adults" -- the parents had to be the ones to cover it up -- or they all fall, child/parent, child/parent.... etc...etc....

This is MUCH BIGGER than we ever imagined....


I agree Silverfox…and they had 10 days to put it all in place….and this is why I think Joran is untouchable...mispelt names, mixed up names, initials, addresses, addresses that don’t exist, buildings that weren’t built, maybe even fake pictures and tickle sites….from Aruba to Florida…what a tangled web!!!

I was going to post this when I saw your post….Take some Tylenol Lala’s….remembering a post that Caps made a while back about Freddy Alexander Zedan-Arambatzis Arends….

Freddy – Frederick Arends or Martina, guy in Kia on some sort of porn/video charges

Alexander – Gottenbos

Zedan – ? -still working on it?

Arambatzis – Ernesto

Arends – Max or Frederick





The order that I have is as follows

Freddy Martina, guy in Kia on some sort of porn/video charges[/color]

Alexander Gottenbos

Zedan ?

Arambatzis Ernesto

Max Arends 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 19, 2008, 01:51:24 PM
LaLa's - So, does this mean that Freddy's real name is Freddy Martina? 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 19, 2008, 02:13:47 PM
Thanks Caps for your response....Zedan is still a question mark?

IIRC, 'Freddy' only started to use this name in late August. Maybe some of the veteran Monkeys can recall when! TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 19, 2008, 02:19:12 PM
Texas Monkeys...Help!  How would Simian know about the Houston Chronicle?  Is it a big paper? I have never heard of it, heck I haven't heard of most here in Ohio! Just the really big ones, Columbus, Akron, Cleveland and the local ones!  TIA

Google? LOL  I have my thoughts as to how Simian would know this. It would be the person he knew that told him this...if Simian is who we think...



maybe the Simian is in the news business? he scrutinizes media outlets.....but sings the praises of one......in Aruba


Hi COLUMBO...nice to see you! So you don't think that Armin is Simian? Or do you think as I do that Simian and some other poster's were being 'fed' posts, via IM or email? TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 19, 2008, 02:30:25 PM
Lala's

Natalee was taken to an "event"

It all makes sense...

All those names who were floated out there and interrogated were interrogated because they were in attendance at the "event" ... No other explanation really fits...  The reason J2K become the primaries is because they were the last ones seen with her by the general public -- but the insiders?  Well, That entire ordeal....

Remember, "too many people would be hurt if the truth comes out?" Remember that?  That is because too many people were in attendance and actually know what happened.... from the very beginning -- which is why this cover-up is so widespread... too many fingers in the pie, relatives, connections -- from the Oduber boy to the Dompig boy etc., etc....

The reason all of us are spinning around from name to name is because all of us were correct in one form or another -- all these guys were involved and the 'adults" -- the parents had to be the ones to cover it up -- or they all fall, child/parent, child/parent.... etc...etc....

This is MUCH BIGGER than we ever imagined....


I agree Silverfox…and they had 10 days to put it all in place….and this is why I think Joran is untouchable...mispelt names, mixed up names, initials, addresses, addresses that don’t exist, buildings that weren’t built, maybe even fake pictures and tickle sites….from Aruba to Florida…what a tangled web!!!

I was going to post this when I saw your post….Take some Tylenol Lala’s….remembering a post that Caps made a while back about Freddy Alexander Zedan-Arambatzis Arends….

Freddy – Frederick Arends or Martina, guy in Kia on some sort of porn/video charges

Alexander – Gottenbos

Zedan – ? -still working on it?

Arambatzis – Ernesto

Arends – Max or Frederick





The order that I have is as follows

Freddy Martina, guy in Kia on some sort of porn/video charges[/color]

Alexander Gottenbos

Zedan ?

Arambatzis Ernesto

Max Arends 

Thanks my friend, take care.  ::MonkeyWink::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 19, 2008, 02:39:51 PM
LaLa's - So, does this mean that Freddy's real name is Freddy Martina? 

According to that beach tennis tournament that Joran and Freddy participated in last year or so...Freddy insisted they refer to him as Freddy Zedan.  In the PVs he is referred to as Zedan...even though the name Abrambatsiz was used by the media and ALE at one time.  Ernesto uses that last name and if Freddy was not a Zedan until he was told to stop using his brother/step-brother's name then there is a reason. Caps told Mum and myself there was no Zedans in Aruba.  Well that opened a whole new can of worms for us and we began digging.  Mum along with some our most intelligent monkeys have done really outstanding work tracking this stuff down.  They deserve kudos for all this work. My point is Ernesto is involved in all manner of shady dealings in Miami/North Bay Village.  Remember that place...North Bay Village?  That is the location of an address of Ernesto's as provided to us by Hotping that has since been found to not have been Ernesto's address but the future location of a set of expensive apartments.  As I understand it (please correct me monkeys if I have this wrong)  was not built when Ernesto used that address.  It's just more of the things that make you go hmmmmmm.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 19, 2008, 02:59:19 PM
The only Armatbatzis we have come up with in Aruba are Lilian Regina and Robby.  The only one in Venezuela is Robby, aged 51.

Only other connection to Venezuela is a Mayra Smalley – Arambatzis-Prada-Ribeiro, probably forgot a couple! She is tied to a Nicholas and Editha Arambatzis from Florida. She spent 12 or 25 years in Venezuela, depending on which article you read. She has a Greek father and a Dutch mother. Also has a son named Victor, 10 years old!

This is the only person I can connect to Ernesto as being his mother, from all the digging that has been done by the Monkeys on this. Ernesto is also associated with Nicholas and Editha and has a former address in Bradenton Fl.

This is the short version…heaps of stuff on this! Vms?…Hotping?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 19, 2008, 03:02:49 PM
The only Armatbatzis we have come up with in Aruba are Lilian Regina and Robby.  The only one in Venezuela is Robby, aged 51.

Only other connection to Venezuela is a Mayra Smalley – Arambatzis-Prada-Ribeiro, probably forgot a couple! She is tied to a Nicholas and Editha Arambatzis from Florida. She spent 12 or 25 years in Venezuela, depending on which article you read. She has a Greek father and a Dutch mother. Also has a son named Victor, 10 years old!

This is the only person I can connect to Ernesto as being his mother, from all the digging that has been done by the Monkeys on this. Ernesto is also associated with Nicholas and Editha and has a former address in Bradenton Fl.

This is the short version…heaps of stuff on this! Vms?…Hotping?



Oops!...Victor is 19...Here is the bio on Mayra and Victor.

http://letsmakeupwithmayra.com/Biographies.html




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 19, 2008, 03:11:42 PM
It all leads back to the U.S. and Florida...I can't help but think this cartel stuff is all related to our Florida connections.  When was Paulus in Miami?  That is the big question to me...if he was there and he was there at a particular time...then we may be connecting some dots as to who in Florida helped Paulus in Aruba.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Rob on June 19, 2008, 03:19:55 PM
Rob if you are suggesting a "mansur" connection -- to include it's spokesman (Jossy) then you and I are on the same page...

He's not the spokesman, but the president.

I like Jossy for what he has tried to do -- but to me is is "Dirty Hand" because he has always been in a position to break this case wide open (but somehow falls short) -- including the latest "shoe" debate...

I like what Jossy seems to have done also. But what has he really done? Translated some articles and buddied up with some posters... maybe to see what others are looking at??? Where is his expose` on the subject? and his paper investigates crime and drug trafficking. How could he NOT know what his brother was doing? answer - he knew - cause he must be part of it, but only much better insulated and smarter.

This entire thing is all about power and control.

This is totally right... it's not the Mansur's turn right now to be totally corrupt...the AVP is out of power. It's currently Oduber's time and Rudy's cronies to operate with impunity. The Mansurs had their run at the protected game. They want another shot - so silence it the order of the day.

It is not the first time that a Mansur has been connected to drugs and money laundering -- right?

Is there a Mansur not connected to illegal activities?

and the political parties... the elections...

They wait for their next turn when Eman or whoever gives them the control again. They're currently sitting ducks.

and the children on the elite -- what do they do for entertainment on such a small island with such a small population where the economy is run my the mob...????

They have their issues too. When your parents and their friends are not in power and you commit a crime - you go to jail as political pay back. When your group is in power you roll. This island is steeped in political power plays. That's why Oduber's paycheck does not matter to him... it's the POWER and the freebies and muscle that come with the job.

Nat was in the wrong place at the wrong time and the cartels are involved and covered it up -- or thought they did, anyway...

YES she was!! and yes they are. They have had to move to other areas under less scrutiny. They can't be happy.

PVDS was at that casino... The supreme court also placed him with two contacts direct with Nat... come on folks, do we need a road map here?  PVDS was more involved than what people might think and I still feel he was there... right there when "something bad happened" -- as were a lot of rich kids -- and maybe some rich dads as well ---

PVDS was in the casino and that is him on the video. No doubt. That alone should have had him in jail for life. He lied about his "contacts" with Natalee. Why lie if you have nothing to hide? He must have committed the crime of premeditated murder or he would not have been initially charged with that crime. That looks like the correct charge.

but the connections here are like a spider web --- tag one strand and the entire network ripples alerting the spider...

best analogy I have heard yet. Kudos to you SF. Good one.

There is bad politics there and drug and money laundering cartels -- and all the bad and evil things that the mob can generate in an area that is volatile to national security... The crime bosses are playing both ends against the middle --- that is why bodies are washing ashore and why one body -- Nats is in never never land --

what can I say to that - you're right!

All it takes is one person -- maybe Melody? to have ethics, feelings, a conscience?

you and I will be long dead before one decent person comes forward. It's sad that it's left up to internet posters to try to find anything / something. You know the FBI / DFI / NFI are not doing anything... or they would have already done it. And the fact that the corrupt investigation has not even been examined tells me that this is how they would like it to end. Aruba moves on and finds new tourists in 2010 (the five year plan) where no one remembers the crap they pulled. Remember there is always someone incredibly stoopid that will not research or take the time to find out about their destination. Aruba counts on that stupidity.

Jossy ? Well he is the reporter that could break this all open.  He knew and walked along side of Beticoe... He knows all houses and he works them all... but his family has a history and this makes his hands dirty cuz he could fix things if he really wants -- he is the 4th estate... he knows the rich, the poor and the faithful... he has the power of the pen... he only needs to let it fry those who need fried...

I would hope that with Jossy's health concerns, he has written it all down to be released upon his death. Otherwise, I doubt he will make known what he knows. He has held back too many aspects for me to believe he is going to all of a sudden tell all. He has had every opportunity to tell what he knows and remains silent. Let me ask you - has remaining silent helped Natalee (God Rest Her Soul)? All of those that have their secrets - has remaining silent and protecting the info helped? I don't think so, but that's just my opinion.

but, if it is his own cartel that is in trouble (remember, the cartels compete -- in a war against each other...) then his loyalties are splayed... he is torn... power depends on who controls what... then Nat is really nothing to him except his own conscience... He knows about the shoe... He knows about PVDS... the judges... Rudy...

exposure is what all cartels fear most. They need to operate in the dark. Shining the light on the cartel makes your other legitimate businesses go up in smoke. No one wants to do legitimate business with seemingly corrupt people. I imagine he knows more than we do, but what - I can not tell, because I do not know what he knows.

And he has relatives who are part of the "younger" generation -- the kids... the friends of Joran and Oduber and Croes... it is all in the blood -- and blood is thicker than water...

Natalee is not their relative. She is an outsider and a threat even in death. Indians circle the wagons

the entire house of cards needs to be taken down...

the question is - HOW? and WHO?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 19, 2008, 03:32:57 PM
Anyone recall why Jossy was denied a visa and then I recall they issued one later for health reasons? he has family, a home and businesses in Florida and it seems strange that they would reject his visa application! Must have come and go plenty of times, what made this time different?

Great post Rob.. ::MonkeyDance::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 19, 2008, 03:41:46 PM
At this point for the house of cards to fall someone will have to make the ultimate sacrifice and risk their life to tell what they know.  Hard to do when a natural instinct is survival. Survival of you and your family. Joran has a 'get out of jail free' card and he is using it every day. We can only hope there is an expiration date on it and it's coming soon. Until they no longer want to protect Joran this will never be solved.  Paulus has control and he doesn't seem to be worried about his own family's welfare.  That tells me he most likely doesn't have to because of what he knows. The Sloots are the cause of all Aruba's misery...they continue to tolerate it for reasons that baffle the mind.  In the grand scheme of drug cartels and such, the Sloots should be a liability not an asset.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 19, 2008, 03:59:34 PM
At this point for the house of cards to fall someone will have to make the ultimate sacrifice and risk their life to tell what they know.  Hard to do when a natural instinct is survival. Survival of you and your family. Joran has a 'get out of jail free' card and he is using it every day. We can only hope there is an expiration date on it and it's coming soon. Until they no longer want to protect Joran this will never be solved.  Paulus has control and he doesn't seem to be worried about his own family's welfare.  That tells me he most likely doesn't have to because of what he knows. The Sloots are the cause of all Aruba's misery...they continue to tolerate it for reasons that baffle the mind.  In the grand scheme of drug cartels and such, the Sloots should be a liability not an asset.


Right again, Lala's! Joran does what he does, because he can and he is untouchable...

Going back to Cap’s post…A combination of peeps that know what happened to Natalee – Freddy, the video guy, just not whom we thought.  Ernesto, he was there? Alexander, Gottenbos – which one, the elder or Koen or Sander. Arends, Max – is he related to Jossy?  And we are left with the mysterious Zedan….that was adopted by 'Freddy' in august 2005!

So who is Zedan...an American, Dutch or Aruban, Elder or a child of an elder, friend of Ernesto's, Max or the Gottenbos?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: always 1 on June 19, 2008, 11:50:01 PM
That was reallly interesting Rob.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 20, 2008, 04:27:15 AM
Hi Finn...nice to see you...Do you recall anything about Paulus' trip to Florida, early in the case?

And do you recall anything about a poster anbennett?

Thanks in advance....


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: finngirl on June 20, 2008, 04:58:11 AM

this post is a clusterf***
but so was the summer of 2005

we were being fed BS by
uber creepy Arlene Schipper
Ruben rubberlegs Trappenberg
Tito didshenotaskforit Lacle
and ... that skank Julia Renfro

info was coming from numerous sources ...
and we each get to decide for ourselves
which sources were BS/which were honestly mistaken

Tito came off w/ Lorenzo Wever at SM
when he was asked about Lorenzo van Rijn
and then Guido Wever surfaced as well ...

the name thang on one shitty eiland
is like playing wheel of fortune

some reporters had trouble w/ exotic/foreign names:
there was one broadcast where Arambatzis
was pronounced on-air as Aaron Batsis

the name Arandashi/Arendashi posted below was another
(mis)interpretation of Arambatzis
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

info was also circulated by phone
and (mis)hearing could result in (mis)information ...
which is why I still wonder if FA was heard as SA

SHOCKtheMONKEY Says:
June 23rd, 2005 at 11:39 am
the boys are innocent. only witness. co and sa are key.

was sK's question re SA prompted by that?

or ... does co = colombia/sa = south america?
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

why was the last name Arends associated
w/ Freddy at one time?

early FP posts (checkme or aia?) mentioned that
LvR/Maxito Arendsz were brothers ...
perhaps too many well-meaning cooks
were stirring the broth

but then there's the fact that Maxito's BFF,
Andry Lopez aka "grumpy", webmaster of the boostunit site
from the Aruba Speed Shop owned by Maxito Arendsz,
came to SM posting as Peeps ...
denying that he/Maxito knew Lorenzo ...
altho he did happen to bring us the LvR/van photo

a little while later, sandraK, while defending LvR ...
said that he "runs w/ Maxito Arendsz and Orlando Bello
from Aruba Speed Shop"

when confronted w/ the denial above from Peeps
and asked how she "knew" what she knew ...
she said (referring to Andry Lopez/Peeps):

WE PM  :wink:
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ 

was there a 4th arrest that friday/that weekend?

some of the detail sounds like it relates to NH
and some sounds like it relates to the
underage girl gang-bang video/previous date rapes

does Freddy-it-has-something-to-do-with-a-car
relate to NH or to the other cases?

DNA from the Sloot residence? WTF?

Natalee's uncle/Paul (quoted below) sounds confused
and I know I am
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

the 6:14pm post below clearly shows that
he was listed in the Buki Di as
Freddy Arambatzis in august 2005
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

Fri Aug 26, 2005

4:49 pm Sooz:
If Geraldo was right about the videos, then this could eventually lead to Mr. Pink and all that smut about internet videos, right?

4:55 pm sunmoonstars:
This press release came down from the prosecutors. This is the email from the prosecutor to MSNBC

They are in custody based on the same suspicions as before.
They are suspected of the primary criminal act of together with other people committing premeditated murder.
Alternately, together with other people murdering somebody.
More alternately, rob a person of her liberty with fatal consequences.
Even more alternately, raping somebody.

Aside from these suspicions against these two brothers, there are new suspicions which at this point the prosecutor is not commenting on. To arrest the Kalpoe brothers, there had to be new facts and circumstances, that is the case!

4:59 pm AZLady:
Who are the other two in custody, besides the Kalpoes? Freddy and someone else?

5:05 pm AZLady:
Arubagirl, were the Kalpoes and two others arrested? Or the Kalpoes and one other guy? I can't find accurate info.

5:06 pm klaasend:
No...only Freddy. Not sure if there's more, I'm thinking not.

5:06 pm sunmoonstars:
Catherine Crier Fri

Based on the same suspicions as before. There are new suspicions, or they couldn't re arrest the K brothers.

Art Wood: We have known for a long time that the LE have statements from these boys. They know where Natalee is.
 
Freddy Arandashi?? Uses the name Freddy Arends, he is a close friend and neighbor of Jorans.

5:07 pm arubagirl:
AZlady, on the radio said that four new arrests were made, but then I heard it was only three.

Anyway, I heard the name of one guy, but I don't know if it's right or not.

5:08 pm sunmoonstars:
AG: Art Wood is saying Freddy Arandashi?? also says he goes by Freddy Arends.

5:09 pm  arubagirl:
I think it's not Arends. I'll check it out on Monday.

5:10 pm DT:
The ex-girlfriend of Joran, Melody or whatever, is saying on RWV that the guy's name is Freddy Zedan.

5:12 pm sunmoonstars:
AG: They said a neighbor and friend of Jorans. Does that help?

5:14 pm arubagirl:
Well, if he is a neighbour and lives in the same neighbourhood (montanja), then I can check, hold on.

5:14 pm barbiegirl23:
This Freddy is listed as a doubles tennis partner of Joran in the Aruban paper of Sept 2004...

5:15 pm arubagirl:
There is an Arends that lives at Montanja... Check the other last names.

5:16 pm arubagirl:
No person named Zedan in the phone book, not that it means that he doesn't exist, just not in the phone book.

5:17 pm arubagirl:
Nor Arandashi / Arendashi.

5:17 pm klaasend:
I'm thinking it's Freddy Arends: Blue shirt on left - middle with cap on right.
 
(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/klaasend/freddycopy.jpg)

5:19 pm arubagirl:
Yes that's who I thought it was as well. Why don't these things happen on a Friday? Now I have to wait a whole weekend to find out more. BLECH!

5:22 pm DT:
Jossy: We don't know that he was arrested in relation to this case, though he was questioned about it at the beginning. We have heard that he had alibi that said he was with Joran that night.

Dan Riehl said earlier that the Freddy guy is the same person who was staying at Joran's apartment that night.

5:22 pm whodunit:
Does HE  live at Aruba Racquet Club?

5:24 pm fluffy monkey:
Geraldo said that this guy was a fake alibi and faked that he stayed with Joran that night.

5:24 pm nancy drew:
http://www.aeromodelers.sr.org/david/am28sep04.pdf  28 sept 2004
B-Doubles team Freddy Zedan/Joran van der Sloot beat Peter Villevoix/Lex Burgman in a surprise sweep

5:25 pm arubagirl:
No, owner of the place told me the homes are only used as vacation homes by wealthy tourists.

5:26 pm fluffy monkey:
Wonder if "someone" has a key to one of them....

5:28 pm whodunit:
Hmmm...maybe it could at least explain what the boys were doing late that night (3am) near the ARC. Maybe meeting his tennis partner.......hmmmmm

5:32 pm odds on:
Who - For what it's worth, the AM Digitel article (link posted above)about the September 2004 tennis tounament that jvds and Freddy Z won took place at the Aruba Racquet Club. Coincidences abound.

5:42 pm HannieC:
if there is a 4th person arrested then i think it`s significant that nobody seems to know who that person is nor his initials or name...Makes me wonder who that is.....(and then i`m not thinking of Paulus). BTW...

5:44 pm bondia/Julia Renfro:
Freddy Z.

Freddy's middle name is Alexander and it is customary to never use somebody’s last name in Aruba until they have been charged.

The rules were obviously broken in Natalee's case as it has been a free for all of accusations since the Beginning.

6:00 pm Port Valerie:
New Greta Wire emailed at 5:41 PM:

What has caught my attention most is the timeline we have pieced together. From Satish's lawyer the other night on the show, we learned that someone was on the Internet at the Kalpoe residence from 2 a.m. to 3 a.m. Why did that person get off the Internet at 3 a.m.? Note that 3 a.m. is the exact time that Joran van der Sloot's second call went to Deepak's cell phone (the first was 2:40 a.m.)

Stay tuned. We will have more tonight.

6:01 pm sunmoonstars:
Catherine Crier/Friday

Crier: Can you tell me anything about this Freddy?

Jossy: We hear 2 versions: The official press release that the prosecution put out did not mention him at all. People are under the impression that his arrest may be related to another case. He was arrested in the beginning with relation to this same case. There is no mention from the police in regards to this third man. Third man is a friend of them, partied with them, many pics with him. He was questioned in the beginning in regards to the Natalee case.

Crier: Do you have any info as to his whereabouts the night Natalee disappeared?

Jossy: I hear his alibi is that he was with Joran

6:02 pm WonderWoman:
ARAMBATZIS-RODRIGUEZ ALBERT, LILIAN REGINA, MONTANJA 39-F

6:02 pm AZLady:
I found an ARAMBATZIS-RODRIGUEZ, ALBERT and LILIAN REGINA who live in MONTANJA.
http://www.arubachamber.com/LC%20KLEIN%2005-06-2005.htm

6:07 pm klaasend:
So why is Bondia saying the last name starts with a Z ?

6:08 pm arubagirl:
I have no idea. I'm guessing that Bon Dia is checking back with the group.

6:09 pm Shell:
Maybe the stop at the other bar that was mentioned was to pick up Freddy? Just thinking

6:14 pm RobertJ:
BINGO! Directory listing: Arambatzis, Freddy. Aruba. I've got his e-mail and his TICKLE site too: Freddy Locoman Pimp

6:16 pm NativeLingo:
ARAMBATZIS-RODRIGUEZ ALBERT, LILIAN REGINA, MONTANJA 39-F

could be either Venezuelan or Colombian....only they use 2 last names here...

6:19 pm DT:
Jossy says: Freddy arrested on charges of taking and selling pictures of young naked girls. He was questioned initially in the NH case.

6:21 pm WidgetTheMidget:
Dont Be Surprised If What Happened To Natalee Was Recorded ........

6:21 pm bondia/Julia Renfro:
As we have already told RED, SM usually knows what it going on before MSM and 99% of Aruba. Based on the Tennis match from AM Digital and the initials givin by the police F.A. (and usually most people in Aruba have at least 3 if not 4 initials in thier name) We were told that Joran has a friend named Freddy Alexander.

Since Jossy was the one who found the girls with the rape accusations, we are sure that he has the right Name since it is his find.

ARAMBATZIS in Montana sounds like a winner! Thanks for the Good work Monkeys.

6:25 pm DT:
Aruban attorney: I doubt that it is a coincidence this guy was arrested at the same time and lived near Joran.

6:28 pm DT:
Aruban Attorney: It is possible that the Kalpoes stated Joran sexually assaulted Natalee, and were still released.

6:31 pm NativeLingo:
DT, it wasn't a coincidence...

6:32 pm nancy drew:
They said it on Abrams...the part about Freddy knowing about the disposal of the body...

6:42 pm sandraK:
Freddy Cuz..Lissette' ...lives..in Usa.... her Mom maybe is... Rebeca Zedan (Female, 52) Location: Venezuela. his aunty?? or something?

6:43 pm tcumom:
Does anyone remember Geraldo's comments looooong time ago about porn stuff and pics? Think I'm remembering correctly.....just a comment.

6:45 pm DT:
Yeah I brought this up earlier, it would be insane if Geraldo turned out to be right. I can't think of one person who believed him when said this.

6:46 pm cancon:
indeed I remember it clear as day, what was puzzling that Geraldo never mentioned it again, not to my recollection, until perhaps today, maybe the Aruban LE contacted him and asked him to hush up? and for once one of Geraldo's wild statements could be coming true.........

6:51 pm writenow:
If Freddy has been brought in and Freddy, Joran & Jaime Carrasquilla were all best friends, is Jaime next to be arrested? BTW Satish is now calling himself the King of bling bling on his tickle site. Good grief. Maybe he's getting the bling bling from selling pics of naked girls.

7:17 pm friend of monkey:
but Vanderstraten does have a son jorans age? or not known?

7:18 pm HannieC:
I believe his youngest son is 24 and the oldest 33 or 34

7:31 pm sandrak:
Rebeca Zedan (Female, 52) Location: Venezuela. Aunty ??

7:33 pm bondia/Julia Renfro:
WRITENOW said earlier that Jaime would be arrested! Are you part of the ALE or a clairvoyant of a Monkey PI. Who can spell his last name right?

7:37 pm sandrak:
Jaime Carrasquilla

7:38 pm the big hammer:
1. The 2:40am call is the link w/ video to k residence to download. Call may have linked to assault live? Depends on duration of call.

2. 3:10 am is the voice call to say: "something's wrong -- come get me."

3. From k2 residence, numerous 3rd parties could link in to view the 2:40am "show."

7:39 pm Shell:
Tito was listed on that tickle site of Freddy. When I looked at it when RobertJ first posted, Ruben Trapenberg was on there also, then when I went back a while later, his photo (RT) was gone. Maybe I don't understand how tickle sites work.

7:39 pm bondia/Julia Renfro:
Good Try SANDRA K, but I have another spelling, but I have been wrong before. Rumors are strong that he will be picked up tomorrow.

7:43 pm bondia/Julia Renfro:
The Rumor on Aruba was that four were arrested today, but the police confirmed only 3, possibly another tomorrow. We spoke to Jaime and he thinks it is about some pictures that were taken in April, but they were deleted after the girl asked them to. He said they weren't illicit, but she didn't like them. They have all continued a friendship relationship since and he is surprised that she would be complaining now. Jaime also lives in Montana. To make it clear, he didn't even know that anyone has made a complaint, but that is the only thing he could think anyone could complain about. Since then, the girl has remained friends with all of them - even been to family parties at Joran's house.

7:53 pm sandraK:
bondia, Anyone with..."SA"..... as Nic?

7:55 pm  writenow:
You're funny bondia. Monkey ALE PI clairvoyant. My new title. I posed it as a question not a fact.
 
You tell me -- are they going to arrest Jaime? he's tight with Freddy and Joran. Makes sense he's in this, too.

7:55 pm cancon:
well I thought he said 2:30 am, could the assault have taken place before 2:40 am, 2:30 am they just transmitted the video file at 2:40 am under a pretence which would mean real premeditation if they had already worked out their alibis in advance here........

you can tape and save a video file on those phones too, may not have been live........

7:56 pm bondia/Julia Renfro:
Hi SANDRAK

It was spelled out for us as Carasquia, but since he made his own tickle site, I will give him credit that he knows how to spell his own name, although...

As for SA - we would need more details.

8:00 pm sandrak:
Time will tell ....

8:13 pm crazybabyborg:
Jossy: Freddy provided an alibi for Joran

8:14 pm crazybabyborg:
Jossy: my info from our sources in the LE is that 3 girls came forward with statements of being date drugged and raped

8:15 pm writenow:
Oh, one more thing.

Jaime lives on the same street as the van der Sloots. Jaime Carrasquilla/Carrasquilla, Acuna Omar/Montanja 232

8:19 pm suz3nscar:
Sometimes I think Nancy Grace is nuts....just came back on the air with Elvis' Jailhouse Rock playing

8:21 pm san:
On NG lawyer stated Freddy won't be able to have a lawyer for several days

8:22 pm sooz:
NG says CNN is trying to confirm the arrest of a 4th suspect. Did I miss something?

8:22 pm fluffy monkey:
Freddie takes pictures for the Pimp Gang" says the guy on NG

8:24 pm sooz:
OMG!! NG is going to tick off the Arubans again. She looked straight at the camera and said "Attention Aruban police. Separate cells!"

8:27 pm onesillymonkey:
NG - Kalpoe bros. not being questioned right away. Letting them sit, being informed that they will be prosecuted to the full extent of the law for the seriousness of crimes they are accused of - this is a method to induce fear into them in order to get them to more easily talk when the interrogations begin. They are being careful not to try and force information out of them that can later be thrown out due to a forced confession.

Fourth suspect IS in connection with NH case.

8:32 pm pj:
No one knows anything about a fourth suspect being arrested. I think someone said maybe tomorrow.

9:03 pm san:
from tv for those w/o the channel: Freddy's involvment in the case is with a car.

9:05 pm I hear shango:
Helen Lejuez said Freddy....physical evidence regarding the car......

9:06 pm nancydrew:
Hannity and Colmes....

Helen: says this is considered a gang rape...Freddy was brought in due to the car (which car???) .

Paul Reynolds: First time he's heard the term "gang rape"

H/C: Is this a homicide?

Paul Reynolds: Joran said Deepak raped, murdered Natalee

Helen: 60 Days now for the boys brought in today. The prosecutor told her this has to do with murder and rape. She has more info not from the prosecutor, and it is quite secure.

9:08 pm arubagirl:
So much for the gang-rape being 'secret', which my source told me it was.

9:10 pm justinsmama:
Is that what you were going to reveal around the 4th? Or part of it, anyway?

9:10 DT:
Do you know anything more about this?

9:11 pm arubagirl:
no, this I heard today.

9:11 pm little miss:
Secret from who?

9:12 pm arubagirl:
No, nothing more, only about the gang-rape taking place.

9:13 pm DT:
Does this involve all of the boys, or just the three?

9:14 pm friend of monkey:
freddy lives behind jorans apartment...on FOX

9:14 pm arubagirl:
All of them.

9:16 pm nancydrew:
Hannity and Colmes. Reporter/Aruba... It's a "commission based crime." Freddy lives in the neighborhood.

9:20 pm I hear shango:
jossy said there are a total of 6 girls who have come forward....not including Natalee.....

9:22 pm sooz:
Hmmm, another vote for a 4th new suspect in jail today.

Hannity and Colmes transcript: Friday August 27

Helen: Him (Freddie A) and another detainee in jail right now. Freddie is a friend of Jorans and has something to do with the car. According to my (Helen’s) sources, he is part of the “gang” and what we are getting is that he is involved in the rape case and it has to do with the car. I have other news that I haven’t yet confirmed, another young man who hasn’t yet been brought before the judge.

Uncle: That is the first time I have heard that phrase used (gang rape) We have heard sexual assault.

9:26 pm candygirl:
Maybe its freddy's place they went back to? I sure hope the LE is doing a search there!

9:32 pm fluffymonkey:
Larry King Live, Friday August 26, 2005

Dave Holloway : We were concerned about September 4 date coming up but now it looks like Joran is probably not going to be let go. FBI called and told us about Kalpoe brothers and Freddy. Prosecutor is very confident.

Steve Holloway (uncle): Very happy they arrested K2, maybe we can find out a little more.

Harris Faulkner (Current Affair): Polis said FBI made a difference and gave them confidence. The polis were very involved and busy in keeping up with K2.
 
Cardoza: Young women have come forward saying K2 were involved in using date rape drugs Now police can turn up the heat even though it didn’t have to do with NH case.

9:38 pm I hear shango:
polis chief was not overhead saying how can i do this to my best friend's son....he was on national tv saying it...I saw it with my own eyes.

9:41 pm peaches:
Vinda just said they collected DNA from the VDS property.

9:51pm margaritaville:
CNN just mentioned the Tickle sites!!!

9:55 pm peaches:
Harris Faulkner just said they keyed into the boys from the start and got their cell phone #s from their Tickle sites. Called 'em up.

9:56 pm fluffymonkey:
Harris: Current Affair pulled info from TICKLE!!!!! Three guys described themselves as having healthy sex lives (Joran, particularly) Thinks it is relevant to look at lifestyle, says tickle is explicit, AND THE WAY CURRENT AFFAIR GOT IN TOUCH WITH JORAN THE FIRST TIME WAS FROM HIS CELL PHONE NUMBER ON TICKLE

10:01 pm friend of monkey:
early on a gang bang tape w/ joran and a 14 yr old was mentioned here..

10:03 pm kackylacky:
yes by Geraldo...............and we all scoffed.

10:28 pm crazybabyborg
Anyone know what the nature of the alibi was that Freddy supplied for Joran?

10:30 pm DT:
From what I understand, he said he stayed at Joran's apartment that night, which is something he and other friends often do. He claimed Joran got home at a certain time, and that he said he had met an American girl, but that nothing sexual had taken place.

10:41 pm sleddogs:
"At the beginning of the show they were talking about Freddy being linked somehow due to the car. Not sure which car...but, they referred to the info from the gardener... "

If I remember right a while back when they first brought the gardener in wasn't there a problem with him not being able to identify one of the K2's? Maybe that was because the other person in the car that night was later identified as Freddy.

10:42 pm kackylacky:
Jossy said on Abrams this afternoon, that freddy told ALE he was "with" joran that night...........and that was all that was said about it. The usual comments about that not being too smart was what followed.......no further detail. But I am thinking freddy may have tried to alibi joran for the time after the HI drop off.............which begs the question.........why did they arrest steve for giving deepak an alibi, but did not arrest freddy for doing the same for joran. Interesting.............
 
10:48 pm pj:
Yet Joran went to school bragging about having sex, am I right?

10:49 pm kackylacky:
when in fact, both of them could have been with her at joran's or at freddy's......................Vinda said tonight that DNA was collected at joran's........I didn't hear if she said what kind or much more than it was collected.

If, according to Helen, freddy is also attached to this case because of a car............could freddy have provided joran with transportation (remember the walk with only one shoe line) or moving the body?



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 20, 2008, 05:12:24 AM
Finn...you are a gem!!!...Had it on my list to look for that aeromodeler's link this morning!!!!

That is where the name Zedan was found, after Melody's named him at RWV then input from SandraK and Bondia...and we have some beach tennis pics from 2004....beach tennis...Hmmmm...checkme...and used to make model aeroplanes....

Coincidence that Tommy Pooch and Ernesto Arambatzis were both in Aruba in May of 2005........



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on June 20, 2008, 05:48:32 PM
Texas Monkeys...Help!  How would Simian know about the Houston Chronicle?  Is it a big paper? I have never heard of it, heck I haven't heard of most here in Ohio! Just the really big ones, Columbus, Akron, Cleveland and the local ones!  TIA

Google? LOL  I have my thoughts as to how Simian would know this. It would be the person he knew that told him this...if Simian is who we think...



maybe the Simian is in the news business? he scrutinizes media outlets.....but sings the praises of one......in Aruba


Hi COLUMBO...nice to see you! So you don't think that Armin is Simian? Or do you think as I do that Simian and some other poster's were being 'fed' posts, via IM or email? TIA


"the man on the inside will call soon"

note: The Simian spends much of his time "confirming"

he anonymizes to protect "sources"


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 20, 2008, 10:10:13 PM
Texas Monkeys...Help!  How would Simian know about the Houston Chronicle?  Is it a big paper? I have never heard of it, heck I haven't heard of most here in Ohio! Just the really big ones, Columbus, Akron, Cleveland and the local ones!  TIA

Google? LOL  I have my thoughts as to how Simian would know this. It would be the person he knew that told him this...if Simian is who we think...



maybe the Simian is in the news business? he scrutinizes media outlets.....but sings the praises of one......in Aruba


Hi COLUMBO...nice to see you! So you don't think that Armin is Simian? Or do you think as I do that Simian and some other poster's were being 'fed' posts, via IM or email? TIA


"the man on the inside will call soon"

note: The Simian spends much of his time "confirming"

he anonymizes to protect "sources"


Phone…but who was calling? TIA

Lala’s…….


 ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyDance::


 ::cartwheel:: ::cartwheel:: ::cartwheel::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 21, 2008, 09:35:18 AM
I don't know if this is significant because I can't read Pap.  This is an obituary from a Curacao newspaper, dated December 14, 2006.  The name jumped out at me.

MARTINA
Crismo Cornelio
Mihó konosí komo Shonki
A laga atras su mayornan Felipe i Lucita Martina, kasá Eugenia Martina-Obispo, yunan Arlene i Oswin Martis, Sherneida i Rupert Minguel, Cedric Martina, Frederick Martina, Ericson Martina tur ku nan famia, rumannan Irma Hoyer, Cosme, Siegfried, Henry, Henky, Satulin, Donald, Idaline Martina, Mairis Martina i Franklyn Alexander. Akto di entiero ta djasabra 16 desèmber 4or for di El Señorial pa santana Sta. Rosa. Bishita 1or-3.30or. Promé ku entiero tin un respòns 3.30or na El Señorial.

http://laprensacur.com/content/node/5155


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 21, 2008, 10:02:51 AM
I think CAPS told us that Freddy Martina's parents were Wilfred and Nubia.  I found this Curacao obituary from September 29, 2006.

VEERKAMP
Petrus Eduard (repentino)
Mihó konosí komo Piet
A laga atras su kasá Norma Veerkamp-Louisa, rumannan Johan Veerkamp i Cornelia Veerkamp-Pieternella, Wilhelmina Veerkamp, Gerardus Kirindongo, Swinda Kirindongo, Vilma Otto, Elina Kirindongo i Wilfred Martina, Elio tur ku nan yunan i famia. Akto di entiero ta djasabra 30 sèptèmber for di El Señorial pa santana Roodeweg. Bishita 1or, siguí pa un s.s. di misa 3.30or na El Señorial.

http://laprensacur.com/content/taxonomy/term/7?from=270


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 21, 2008, 10:15:50 AM
I have no idea what this means, but the name Wilfred Martina is here again.


Sra. Isebia Seferina Molina-Winklaarmihó konosí komo Chichi di Tan

  añaSra. Isebia Seferina Molina-Winklaarmihó konosí komo Chichi di Tan Molinana nomber di su yunan: Vicenta (Nia) i Harold DammersAmbrosio (Broertje) i Marcela Molinanietunan: Gerard Dammers i Claudia Kingma (Hulanda), GeorgeDammers(Hulanda),Giovanni Dammers(Hulanda), Rhoda LisaMolina i Ingemar Martha (Kòrsou), Roderick Molina (Kòrsou) iIngemar MolinaBisanietunan: Dinzy Dammers, Fiona Ciciliarumannan: Pedro Winklaar i famia, Dorothea de Palm i famia(Kòrsou)Kuñanan i swa: Selma Winklaar, Kathryn St. Jago, Chepe dePalmSubrinanan: Leticia Mercelina i famia, Nonoi Chirino i famia,Bubuchi Thielman i famia (Kòrsou), Hose Winklaar i famia(Aruba), Bubu Winklaar i famia (Kòrsou), Gloria Maria i famia(Kòrsou), Egon Winklaar i famia (Kòrsou), Maritza Winklaar i famia(Kòrsou), Pablo Winklaar i famia, Maria Winklaar, Luis Winklaari famia, Felipe Winklaar i famia, Carlos Winklaar i famia, NildaWinklaar (Aruba), Carla Winklaar, Alfonso Winklaar i famia, IrenaWinklaar i famia, Buchi Winklaar i famia, Shorombo Jacobs ifamia (Aruba), Ireno (Yuchi) Jacobs i famia (Aruba), EliataWinklaar, Rudy Winklaar, Baby Winklaar, Wilfred Martina i famia(Aruba), Wilson Martina i famia (Kòrsou), Frenklin Winklaar(Kòrsou), Papi Grandviel i famia (Ulanda)amiga: Merce Molina i famia, prima-primunan, komader- ikompadernan, ihánan i demas amiga- i amigunan, Aura i DoeiFinies, Flora i George Klaassen, besiñanan, grupo di SagradoKurason.Demas famia i konosínan: Winklaar, Molina, Dammers,Hoek, Maria, Martina, Grandviel, de Palm, Chirino, Mercelina,Thielman, Martis, Nicolaas, Thomas, Goeloe, Soliana, Evertsz,Frans, Mercera, St. Jago, Wanga, Janga, Cicilia, Albertus, Piar,Pourier, Paulina, Diaz, Boezem i Semeleer.Akto di entiero ta tuma lugá djahuebs 10 di yanuari saliendofor di misa San Bernardo na Playa pa santana katóliko. Tarisibí bishita di kondolensia for di 2’or na misa. Promé kuentiero tin un santu sakrifisio di misa.Despues di entiero NO por risibi bishita di kondolensia nakas.

http://72.14.205.104/search?q=cache:vG3Vzr-Uk8EJ:www.extrabon.com/edishon/edishon2002/extra2002-01-08.pdf+%22wilfred+martina%22+aruba&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=us


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 21, 2008, 10:32:09 AM
Could Karen be related to Freddy?  The nose is sure similar.  ::MonkeyHaHa::

MARTINA, Karen Theresa Paulina – Allegedly was in porn video taped by Freddy. Joran admits to having sex with her multiple times. Was named by JQK as a date rape victim of Joran, but Tacopina claims she has said it was consensual.

http://forum.fok.nl/topic/1124801



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 21, 2008, 11:45:58 AM
Could Karen be related to Freddy?  The nose is sure similar.  ::MonkeyHaHa::

MARTINA, Karen Theresa Paulina – Allegedly was in porn video taped by Freddy. Joran admits to having sex with her multiple times. Was named by JQK as a date rape victim of Joran, but Tacopina claims she has said it was consensual.

http://forum.fok.nl/topic/1124801




Hi SS...IIRC Caps couldn't find Karen.  I will check on Caps post, but remember him naming 2 friends, one he said was Rodriguez and corrected to something like Dominguez...not sure on spelling of the last one, but am positive on the Rodriguez....LOL...  I don't recall the parents, except I think Caps said the Dad was an ex-cop! I will find the post and repost.

Thanks Buckeye, Pita and vms on the Freddy pic...no name...go figure!!!!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 21, 2008, 12:42:24 PM
Is this the post that you're looking for?



 Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #2
« Reply #142 on: March 26, 2008, 04:57:38 AM » 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote from: MumInOhio on March 26, 2008, 04:27:34 AM
Quote from: CapsLockWizard on March 26, 2008, 03:46:22 AM
Quote from: CapsLockWizard on March 26, 2008, 03:43:53 AM
Hi all,

There was a freddy that was arrested in 2004 for making/ preparing the porn movie of a Teen Girl, He was in KIA for something else, I do think he supose to get a work with selimar and his father worked for Blue Team. His father is a High Ranking Official in the blue Team. I do remeber that he was in for leaving the stove on and trying  to burn the Girlreinds house. The Judge at that time, knowing his father give him house arrest but he break the house arrest and went out to party. The Girlfriend call the cops becuase he was out with other girls in Bahia and C&C. He was wearing a wig that night but the girlfriend did recognise him and call the cops.

He was sent to KIA and then let go.

will check, He was a friend of David Lung and Dominquez Reyes and Fred they were the friend of that Baseball Pitcher Ponson who slap a Judge in Aruba on the beach.

All these are beach bums with only thing in their head is to score.

DL, DR and FRED are heavely in XTC and trafficing.
 


correct the last name of Dominquez.



Thanks Caps...America's favorite passtime!

Does this 'Freddy' have a last name? Is he about 24 years old?....TIA


Now About freddy

Martina   Fred A        8/5/1980               Aruba
Martina   Wilfred E        6/12/1945              Bonaire

Fred Martina was the one that did make the porn film in Aruba. His Father is a big wig in the ALE. Both live Hooiberg 94F

Fred A , The A can be the lat name that the cops has given him and not to use his real last name to protect the father position
This is the family structure

These are the people living at the Address

Kock   Johannes J                 1/30/1972   Aruba               Hooiberg 94F
Kock, geb. Martina   Sandra                11/11/1970   Cali                Hooiberg 94FLaaf   Ashwin A                             6/1/1974                Aruba               Hooiberg 94F
Martina   Fred A                             8/5/1980                Aruba               Hooiberg 94F
Martina   Wilfred E                             6/12/1945   Bonaire               Hooiberg 94F
Martina, geb. Gonzalez   Nubia F   10/7/1949   Mocoa                Hooiberg 94F[/color]Spanner   Arelis G                             2/20/1978   San Cristobal   Hooiberg 94F

The blue are a family

The back bold is fred family

Fred us the one that made the porn movie of a young girl teen in Aruba and he is part of the gang.

go to take some zzzz.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 21, 2008, 01:49:08 PM
Thanks SS…This is the link to the discussion  about Freddie and Karen Martina! …I recall googling the dad, but don’t remember the mom’s name! Didn't get to follow up as the convo changed to the Judges' list Deutekom!...LOL

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2733.120


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 21, 2008, 02:08:46 PM
This is how she was listed in 2005 on the Chamber list…MARTINA-GONZALEZ NUBIA FELISA, HOOIBERG 94-F…I didn’t see her listed after that, but could have missed it!…Nah…sanitized…no records exist on the Registry!!! Guess I was imagining what I just read and typed!    ::MonkeyHaHa::


http://www.arubachamber.com/DISKKLEINBEDRIJF31JULI2004.htm




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 21, 2008, 03:00:14 PM
This is how she was listed in 2005 on the Chamber list…MARTINA-GONZALEZ NUBIA FELISA, HOOIBERG 94-F…I didn’t see her listed after that, but could have missed it!…Nah…sanitized…no records exist on the Registry!!! Guess I was imagining what I just read and typed!    ::MonkeyHaHa::


http://www.arubachamber.com/DISKKLEINBEDRIJF31JULI2004.htm







Just a thought....  could it be that Ernesto uses his mother's maiden name and he might have been born before she was ever married, Wilfred Martina is the biological father of Freddy, Nubia is a step-mother, Mrs. Arambatzis-Rodriguez Albert is Freddy's biological mother who has remarried and lives near the Sloots, and Gish (sp) is either a sister or step-sister.  Freddy could then be staying with his mother sometimes and his father other times?  Just a thought and I have absolutely no basis for this except trying to put the puzzle together.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on June 21, 2008, 05:12:52 PM
Texas Monkeys...Help!  How would Simian know about the Houston Chronicle?  Is it a big paper? I have never heard of it, heck I haven't heard of most here in Ohio! Just the really big ones, Columbus, Akron, Cleveland and the local ones!  TIA

Google? LOL  I have my thoughts as to how Simian would know this. It would be the person he knew that told him this...if Simian is who we think...



maybe the Simian is in the news business? he scrutinizes media outlets.....but sings the praises of one......in Aruba


Hi COLUMBO...nice to see you! So you don't think that Armin is Simian? Or do you think as I do that Simian and some other poster's were being 'fed' posts, via IM or email? TIA


"the man on the inside will call soon"

note: The Simian spends much of his time "confirming"

he anonymizes to protect "sources"


Phone…but who was calling? TIA

Lala’s…….


 ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyDance::


 ::cartwheel:: ::cartwheel:: ::cartwheel::


working on Simian.......LE and media use each other


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on June 21, 2008, 05:19:44 PM
ConcernedUK Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:51 pm
Does Shango liaise with Simian?


interesting choice of words


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on June 21, 2008, 05:22:32 PM
Lala's:

Who protects sources?

Who confirms information?

Who has sources "on the inside?"

 ::MonkeyEek::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on June 21, 2008, 05:25:08 PM
i.e:
http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/07/06/reporters.contempt/




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on June 21, 2008, 07:12:29 PM
COLOMBO,

So, you think Simian is a reporter/newsperson & male?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 21, 2008, 07:40:38 PM
RODRIGUEZ TEJADA W/V WINTERDAL RAMONA DEL CARMEN MADIKI 58, A

http://www.arubachamber.com/DISKKLEINBEDRIJF31JULI2004.htm



This is the same Ramona who is now in the Hudson County jail.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 21, 2008, 08:00:24 PM
Mum - I couldn't find the Sloots on that Chamber list.  Do you know why they weren't listed?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on June 21, 2008, 11:27:29 PM
Hi - newbie poster here on SM but not to this case. Been following it since 2005 especially codetalkers.

I am curious - does anybody think this case might involve British or Dutch Royalty? Perhaps a Prince (and maybe his bro's) sowing some royal oats on Aruba who got caught up in something? Not saying Joran is innocent, but just don't get the cover up - why protect Joran - who is providing him, the Kalpoes and G. Wever with the best legal defense money can buy? Maybe this is one vicious triangle - if Joran talks, mob pounces to protect the "figure at this ball who is no prince charming", and this Prince spends a lot of $bucks at Aruba ca$inos, etc.   

In my opinion, most codetalkers make reference to a Prince:
---Simian talks about a 'whiskered rat" (implying Cinderella was taken to the ball, to meet the Prince, and the "whiskered rat' became a coachman with the most enormous moustache - who stopped to think (repose) then took the bribe $ (drank the cup of gravy).
---Alcazar's Revenge talks about  "Before the ides of 31 B.C. - 14 A.D. you will all see that it is the truth.". The ides of March is about Julius Caesar, and BEFORE JC was his adopted son 18 yr old "Augustus", who took over when his father Julius Caesar was murdered (August and July).
--- Merian Ernest talks about the son of a Jaguar. The Jaguar is known as "the KING" in South America, so the son of the king is a Prince.
---Grey Whisper says "The figure at this ball may turn lead to gold, but he's no PRINCE charming." Implied again that Natalee is Cinderella, taken to a Ball (party).  The carriage was Deepak's car, the Horsemen were the other partygoers who need to be pinched.  Cinderalla lost a shoe (er, Joran did hee hee).
--Simian and Shango talk many times about the Palace. Is this the Royal Palace per se? And the ORANGE one is for show - Reference to one of the many Princes of Orange perhaps?
---Alcazar's Revenge also talks about the "pilot of the Jupiter AM-13, he knows who is the saint with the mistaken name" (now the pilot of Jupiter AM-13 was a MONKEY, so a MONKEY knows the saint with the mistaken name - Peter ahem Pieter?? Is Pieter the 'saint' with the 'mistaken name'???  Janus is also the doorkeeper, as is Peter in Catholic tradition - or Pieter??

The blueblooded codetalker knows what happened...IMHO.... your thoughts?
 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: finngirl on June 22, 2008, 02:32:55 AM
Finn...you are a gem!!!...Had it on my list to look for that aeromodeler's link this morning!!!!

That is where the name Zedan was found, after Melody's named him at RWV then input from SandraK and Bondia...and we have some beach tennis pics from 2004....beach tennis...Hmmmm...checkme...and used to make model aeroplanes....

Coincidence that Tommy Pooch and Ernesto Arambatzis were both in Aruba in May of 2005........

YW  :cool:

poochy: dang! I'm impressed!

I always thought Rudy Croes
was the whiskered rat ...
but your interpretations are XLNT

saint w/ mistaken name ...
simian mentioned saint alibi/saint john ...
can't remember any others off hand
and no time to read back right now

anyway ... hope you will stay around
and continue to contribute

 :wink:



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: San on June 22, 2008, 10:05:16 AM
Hi - newbie poster here on SM but not to this case. Been following it since 2005 especially codetalkers.

I am curious - does anybody think this case might involve British or Dutch Royalty? Perhaps a Prince (and maybe his bro's) sowing some royal oats on Aruba who got caught up in something? Not saying Joran is innocent, but just don't get the cover up - why protect Joran - who is providing him, the Kalpoes and G. Wever with the best legal defense money can buy? Maybe this is one vicious triangle - if Joran talks, mob pounces to protect the "figure at this ball who is no prince charming", and this Prince spends a lot of $bucks at Aruba ca$inos, etc.   

In my opinion, most codetalkers make reference to a Prince:
---Simian talks about a 'whiskered rat" (implying Cinderella was taken to the ball, to meet the Prince, and the "whiskered rat' became a coachman with the most enormous moustache - who stopped to think (repose) then took the bribe $ (drank the cup of gravy).
---Alcazar's Revenge talks about  "Before the ides of 31 B.C. - 14 A.D. you will all see that it is the truth.". The ides of March is about Julius Caesar, and BEFORE JC was his adopted son 18 yr old "Augustus", who took over when his father Julius Caesar was murdered (August and July).
--- Merian Ernest talks about the son of a Jaguar. The Jaguar is known as "the KING" in South America, so the son of the king is a Prince.
---Grey Whisper says "The figure at this ball may turn lead to gold, but he's no PRINCE charming." Implied again that Natalee is Cinderella, taken to a Ball (party).  The carriage was Deepak's car, the Horsemen were the other partygoers who need to be pinched.  Cinderalla lost a shoe (er, Joran did hee hee).
--Simian and Shango talk many times about the Palace. Is this the Royal Palace per se? And the ORANGE one is for show - Reference to one of the many Princes of Orange perhaps?
---Alcazar's Revenge also talks about the "pilot of the Jupiter AM-13, he knows who is the saint with the mistaken name" (now the pilot of Jupiter AM-13 was a MONKEY, so a MONKEY knows the saint with the mistaken name - Peter ahem Pieter?? Is Pieter the 'saint' with the 'mistaken name'???  Janus is also the doorkeeper, as is Peter in Catholic tradition - or Pieter??

The blueblooded codetalker knows what happened...IMHO.... your thoughts?
 

Welcome to SM Poochy.  I'm sure one of our posters will answer your post.  I don't post in this thread but just wanted to welcome you.

(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d118/Sanddrops/Scared%20Monkeys/welcome4_hg_clr.gif)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 22, 2008, 10:26:57 AM
Mum - I couldn't find the Sloots on that Chamber list.  Do you know why they weren't listed?


SS...Only Chamber members are listed and not all bussiness peeps choose to be!

I will work on all the Ernest/Arambatzis stuff in the morning and post it all…vms and Hotping have the documents we have found, as I had to transfer stuff from my email, as they are messing with it again on Tuesday! I won’t be able to copy most of the documents!..Last time they did that, I lost stuff and received emails weeks later and some I sent either never arrived or did ages after, so chose to transfer!

Please go over it all, as I may have missed something or gone down a wrong path! A new set of eyes, so to speak…LOL…Or lots of them would be better... ::MonkeyHaHa::
 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 22, 2008, 10:32:52 AM
Hi - newbie poster here on SM but not to this case. Been following it since 2005 especially codetalkers.

I am curious - does anybody think this case might involve British or Dutch Royalty? Perhaps a Prince (and maybe his bro's) sowing some royal oats on Aruba who got caught up in something? Not saying Joran is innocent, but just don't get the cover up - why protect Joran - who is providing him, the Kalpoes and G. Wever with the best legal defense money can buy? Maybe this is one vicious triangle - if Joran talks, mob pounces to protect the "figure at this ball who is no prince charming", and this Prince spends a lot of $bucks at Aruba ca$inos, etc.   

In my opinion, most codetalkers make reference to a Prince:
---Simian talks about a 'whiskered rat" (implying Cinderella was taken to the ball, to meet the Prince, and the "whiskered rat' became a coachman with the most enormous moustache - who stopped to think (repose) then took the bribe $ (drank the cup of gravy).
---Alcazar's Revenge talks about  "Before the ides of 31 B.C. - 14 A.D. you will all see that it is the truth.". The ides of March is about Julius Caesar, and BEFORE JC was his adopted son 18 yr old "Augustus", who took over when his father Julius Caesar was murdered (August and July).
--- Merian Ernest talks about the son of a Jaguar. The Jaguar is known as "the KING" in South America, so the son of the king is a Prince.
---Grey Whisper says "The figure at this ball may turn lead to gold, but he's no PRINCE charming." Implied again that Natalee is Cinderella, taken to a Ball (party).  The carriage was Deepak's car, the Horsemen were the other partygoers who need to be pinched.  Cinderalla lost a shoe (er, Joran did hee hee).
--Simian and Shango talk many times about the Palace. Is this the Royal Palace per se? And the ORANGE one is for show - Reference to one of the many Princes of Orange perhaps?
---Alcazar's Revenge also talks about the "pilot of the Jupiter AM-13, he knows who is the saint with the mistaken name" (now the pilot of Jupiter AM-13 was a MONKEY, so a MONKEY knows the saint with the mistaken name - Peter ahem Pieter?? Is Pieter the 'saint' with the 'mistaken name'???  Janus is also the doorkeeper, as is Peter in Catholic tradition - or Pieter??

The blueblooded codetalker knows what happened...IMHO.... your thoughts?
 


Hi Poochy…Welcome…We had a Dutch poster JE, a while back that was interested in, and posted much of what you posted.  I will see if I can find some of those posts in the next couple of days.  I have looked at it briefly and the one that got me was ‘the noble son of the sun breaking through’ and who’s head is on the other side of the florin’!

Caesu has an avatar that looks like a sun breaking over a Dutch flag, and I did ask once what it meant, if anything, but he must have missed my post.  I searched it and didn’t come up with anything!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on June 22, 2008, 11:34:01 AM
Thanks for the warm welcome everybody! 

I thought the 'sun' references were about 'sol', a name with 'sol' in it, or the Aruba Lodge "El Sol Naciente", but could very well be a flag.

Here's some more stuff I've been checking out:
*************************************
DIRTY HAND = BLACK HAND

http://tinyurl.com/5dpucn

"...on the extortion letter was a dagger thru a heart, a revolver and a bottle marked 'POISON'..."

POISON NOTES....
the GAMBLERS STILL KNOW THE GIRL....
all the GAMBLERS KNeW WHAT WAS WRITTEN DOWN  (on the black hand letter).
Joran said she was from a wealthy family.
She had to win back her father's money... 
Is Freddy's purse tied to the black numbers? (Freddy's winnings tied to the black note amount?)

the grey whisper said...
is freddy's purse tied to the black numbers/////  (I think whisper meant to type in 5 question marks and not forward slashes)texan, the answer is in the numbers 01 06 05   (June 1, 2005)

who are the other guests at that charade?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Hand_(extortion)

"...Black Hand, or La Mano Nera in Italian, was a type of extortion racket. It was a method of extortion, not a criminal organization as such, though gangsters of Camorra and the Mafia practiced it.[1]..."

In popular culture
In Betty Smith's novel, A Tree Grows in Brooklyn, the Black Hand society is referenced in chapter 14 as Sicilians who kidnap small children and demand money for their return.

In Francis Ford Coppola's film The Godfather Part II, Fanucci, the local mafioso, is referred to as being "..with the Black Hand" by Genco Abbandando, a friend of the young Vito Corleone.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 22, 2008, 12:03:25 PM
Mum - I couldn't find the Sloots on that Chamber list.  Do you know why they weren't listed?


SS...Only Chamber members are listed and not all bussiness peeps choose to be!

I will work on all the Ernest/Arambatzis stuff in the morning and post it all…vms and Hotping have the documents we have found, as I had to transfer stuff from my email, as they are messing with it again on Tuesday! I won’t be able to copy most of the documents!..Last time they did that, I lost stuff and received emails weeks later and some I sent either never arrived or did ages after, so chose to transfer!

Please go over it all, as I may have missed something or gone down a wrong path! A new set of eyes, so to speak…LOL…Or lots of them would be better... ::MonkeyHaHa::
 




Mum - a while back I asked you how you knew that you have a visitor.  The reason was because I suspect that I have one, too.  About 6 weeks ago, I suddenly lost my entire email program - I lost everything, including a lot of valuable genealogy data.  Now, I backup like crazy on CDs.  Sometimes when I go to certain sites, my computer goes crazy.  Sometimes when I shut down from my Internet program, my modem continues to function and data continues to come in.  Yesterday, when I was cruising MySpace for Aruban names, Norton notified me that they had intercepted a virus called CometCursor.  Is this what you have experienced?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 22, 2008, 01:16:48 PM
Hello Poochy. Welcome to the most maligned forum in the world. If you like confusion you have arrived at the right place.  Jump in and give us your thoughts.

Motto for this place is:  Just because you think you understood it all last night...keep reading...today it won't make any sense.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on June 22, 2008, 02:10:27 PM
La la'sMom, Thanks for the warm welcome!  I do agree with you - Been going' round and round myself in one giant circle for years now like most of you.

I'm trying to post other avenues to research - to move away from the 'locals' - the little nobodies IMHO and dig deeper into why Sander 'lost' his cell phone that night, why Koen hides in fear inside his own home, why he cries and sleeps with mummy and pappy, and why that entire family up and FLED Aruba. Also wondering what would scare the bezeebers out of the other little nobodies and make them FLEE Aruba immediately after Natalee went missing. Nobody is afraid of Paulus, so it isn't him. All the codetalkers reference casinos, gamblers, card (SHARKS), loan (SHARKS), Freddy's purse, and the Palace.

Joran said Natalee wanted to see the SHARKS. Seeing his snide humor, perhaps he was no cafone (mob tattletale) and thought it funny to say she wanted to see a loan SHARK.

At 17 he was able to play in torney's in at least two casinos that we know about.

There's another Freddy who was at the Aruba 2005 UltimateBet.com. Freddy Deeb won the Aruba Poker Classic back in 2005...

UltimateBet would have covered Freddy's Purse (Deeb that is - Lebonese guy). The watchtower 'guards' were asleep (looking the  other way). Cards were up sleeves (cheating perhaps?) and were played...   

You're right, we can go round and round and round! Just trying to spin this in a new and fresh direction!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 22, 2008, 02:21:42 PM
La la'sMom, Thanks for the warm welcome!  I do agree with you - Been going' round and round myself in one giant circle for years now like most of you.

I'm trying to post other avenues to research - to move away from the 'locals' - the little nobodies IMHO and dig deeper into why Sander 'lost' his cell phone that night, why Koen hides in fear inside his own home, why he cries and sleeps with mummy and pappy, and why that entire family up and FLED Aruba. Also wondering what would scare the bezeebers out of the other little nobodies and make them FLEE Aruba immediately after Natalee went missing. Nobody is afraid of Paulus, so it isn't him. All the codetalkers reference casinos, gamblers, card (SHARKS), loan (SHARKS), Freddy's purse, and the Palace.

Joran said Natalee wanted to see the SHARKS. Seeing his snide humor, perhaps he was no cafone (mob tattletale) and thought it funny to say she wanted to see a loan SHARK.

At 17 he was able to play in torney's in at least two casinos that we know about.

There's another Freddy who was at the Aruba 2005 UltimateBet.com. Freddy Deeb won the Aruba Poker Classic back in 2005...

UltimateBet would have covered Freddy's Purse (Deeb that is - Lebonese guy). The watchtower 'guards' were asleep (looking the  other way). Cards were up sleeves (cheating perhaps?) and were played...   

You're right, we can go round and round and round! Just trying to spin this in a new and fresh direction!


Freddy Deeb...do you have any more info Poochy?  I remember checking out a long time ago. but my memory is failing me...too many names and too many paths..LOL...TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on June 22, 2008, 02:56:38 PM
Mum,

Just what's on the net for Kassem "Freddy" Deeb
http://www.homepokergames.com/deeb.php
pic is on the link.

Kassem Deeb was born in Beirut, Lebanon, but has since relocated to Las Vegas, Nevada. At the Bellagio, he is known as a regular high-stakes player – an activity he refers to as “investing”. Most people remember Deeb from his appearance on the World Poker Tour where he went all-in with As-Kd against Gus Hansen who called with (Qd-10s). The first card was an ace but it was followed by two queens and Deeb was gone. In a post-game interview Deeb said that he wished he could play against Hansen every day for the rest of his life - a not-so-veiled jab at Hansen's supposed inferior playing ability.


************
also want to fix the link in an earlier post - the right parenthesis was omitted when I made the link:

who are the other guests at that charade?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Hand_(extortion)  so use this one:  http://tinyurl.com/5tbumb
 
 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: bleachedblack on June 22, 2008, 03:06:00 PM
Arab maybe; English not likely JMHO


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: hotping on June 22, 2008, 03:15:04 PM
Could be Him

 
Associated Records For: DEEB, KASSEM
 
 
 Names associated / Aliases:
 
 
 Possible Relatives:
 
  DEEB, HANAN A
  DEEB, JEANINE


 Addresses:
 
   9753 Floweret Ave, Las Vegas NV 89117
 
 
 ::MonkeyCool::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: hotping on June 22, 2008, 03:17:16 PM
Could be Him

 
Associated Records For: DEEB, KASSEM
 
 
 Names associated / Aliases:
 
 
 Possible Relatives:
 
  DEEB, HANAN A
  DEEB, JEANINE


 Addresses:
 
   9753 Floweret Ave, Las Vegas NV 89117
 
 
 ::MonkeyCool::
OOPs..Here's More

DEEB, HANAN A (Age 35)

Associated names:

 DIB, HANAN A Floweret Ave , LAS VEGAS, NV 89117
Sorrento Dr , LONG BEACH, CA 90803
1st St , LONG BEACH, CA 90803   06/23/1972 838-8343
(702) 838-8343  Possible Relatives:

DEEB, SAMIR M (Age 48)
DEEB, KASSEM
DEEB, KASSEM I
DEEB, ABRAHAM K
DEEB, JEANINE
DEEB, SALEH I 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on June 22, 2008, 03:32:35 PM
http://tinyurl.com/5o2hvt

while googling Freddy D. I found this link that has the keywords:

LION TALES
CINDERELLA STORY
STAIRWAY TO HEAVEN

But I'm sure at this point, googling keywords lead down many, many paths...round and round and round!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Observer on June 22, 2008, 03:44:55 PM
Freddy Deeb is a very popular Proffessional Poker Player and I have watched him dozens and dozens of times. As far as I know he has no relations to anything in this case.MO


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 22, 2008, 03:47:58 PM
Somebody help me here...I have missed the Deeb story...or did I?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on June 22, 2008, 04:00:06 PM
Freddy Deeb is a very popular Proffessional Poker Player and I have watched him dozens and dozens of times. As far as I know he has no relations to anything in this case.MO

Grey whisper said Freddy's purse is tied to black numbers. This case is tied up in casinos, underage gambling kids, friends working in casinos, and this is the codetalker thread--all codetalkers alluded to gambling. 

5/16/06 7:16 AM  the grey whisper said...
is Freddy’s purse tied to the black numbers///// texan, the answer is in the numbers 01 06 05
who are the other guests at that charade?



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Blonde on June 22, 2008, 04:07:26 PM
POOCHY
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/Fun%20stuff/1asi048.gif)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Blonde on June 22, 2008, 04:12:49 PM
I lost all my 300 saved emails also hmmm


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Observer on June 22, 2008, 04:16:07 PM
Freddy Deeb is a very popular Proffessional Poker Player and I have watched him dozens and dozens of times. As far as I know he has no relations to anything in this case.MO

Grey whisper said Freddy's purse is tied to black numbers. This case is tied up in casinos, underage gambling kids, friends working in casinos, and this is the codetalker thread--all codetalkers alluded to gambling. 

5/16/06 7:16 AM  the grey whisper said...
is Freddy’s purse tied to the black numbers///// texan, the answer is in the numbers 01 06 05
who are the other guests at that charade?



Freddy is just a Poker Player who travels abroad in many poker tournaments. His winnings are from the pool of all the others that spent the money to enter the Tournament. He has nothing to do with the Raddison or any Casino in Aruba.

What should be looked into was the owners of the Excelsior before 1998 and the owner after 1998 and the now Judge SMid who investigated Money Laundering and part of the Task force in 1998. Black Hand is correct and there is a definite connection to that same fricken Mob that is connected to everyone in this case even the Mansurs,PVDS and Rudy Croes and the MEP.

BTW: Welcome to the cage!  ::MonkeyCool::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 22, 2008, 04:26:27 PM
I lost all my 300 saved emails also hmmm


Hi Blonde...same day that SS had problems...my email went wacky, didn't loose any, but I remember it was a Saturday morning and after that I got a couple more email accounts!

Poochy...House of Orange...which brother could it have been...are they gamblers..could they have been in Aruba...still think the 'noble son' fits with royalty more the the Mason's!TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: katiekatie2u on June 22, 2008, 04:49:32 PM
 :smt102 :smt100
lala's mom
and anyone with a comment please feel free .. help me here!!
I  dont come here much as time doesnt allow me... but I am curious to all and any comments on this  subject:
what is possibly and how deep is pauulus vandersloots  involvement in this .. we know he is  evil and we know that joran is spoiled and arrogant and just thinks he is above the law because of his dad.. how powerful is this man.. looking t his eyes I see such evil ...why is he so protected...
I may be a little naive or not realy naive mostly  uninformed .....
misskatie


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on June 22, 2008, 05:31:59 PM

Poochy...House of Orange...which brother could it have been...are they gamblers..could they have been in Aruba...still think the 'noble son' fits with royalty more the the Mason's!TIA

Got the following - not sure if they gamble, or if they were in Aruba, but Pieter was married in August 2005. If you google for his pic, the hairline of later pics does resemble the person sitting next to Natalee at the black jack table....(or so does 1/2 the German population of men with receding hairlines!)

Pieter-Christiaan Michiel Prins van Oranje-Nassau, van Vollenhoven; born 22 March 1972, is the third son of HRH Princess Margriet of the Netherlands and Prof. Pieter van Vollenhoven.

His godparents are his paternal grandfather, Pieter van Vollenhoven, Archduke Michael of Austria-Este, Jonkheer J. Reuchlin, Queen Beatrix of the Netherlands, and Mr. Drabbe.

Prince Pieter-Christiaan has three brothers: Prince Maurits, Prince Bernhard and Prince Floris.
He married Anita van Eijk in a civil ceremony on 25 August 2005 at the Het Loo Palace, Apeldoorn which was followed by a religious ceremony on 27 August 2005 at the Grote of St. Jeroenskerk in Noordwijk. Since he did not seek parliamentary approval for his marriage, due to the remote chance of his succession to the throne, Pieter-Christiaan lost his place in the succession to the Dutch throne when he married Anita. Pieter-Christiaan resides in Amsterdam where he currently works for the ICT company Shopservices.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 22, 2008, 05:35:21 PM
:smt102 :smt100
lala's mom
and anyone with a comment please feel free .. help me here!!
I  dont come here much as time doesnt allow me... but I am curious to all and any comments on this  subject:
what is possibly and how deep is pauulus vandersloots  involvement in this .. we know he is  evil and we know that joran is spoiled and arrogant and just thinks he is above the law because of his dad.. how powerful is this man.. looking t his eyes I see such evil ...why is he so protected...
I may be a little naive or not realy naive mostly  uninformed .....
misskatie

If you are asking strictly as to Shango's interpretation of who is involved...I would say Paulus is in deep and as Shango said...the elder and dirty hand are in this together.  If you are asking me personally, then I would say Paulus is involved in ways we haven't discovered yet.  Do you know of any other island that would allow a certain set of average citizens to run amok and get away with all that we have uncovered?  No way it's just Joran and his buddies out for a joy ride. Otherwise, it would all be over and Aruba would be business as usual.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on June 22, 2008, 05:36:23 PM
:smt102 :smt100
lala's mom
and anyone with a comment please feel free .. help me here!!
I  dont come here much as time doesnt allow me... but I am curious to all and any comments on this  subject:
what is possibly and how deep is pauulus vandersloots  involvement in this .. we know he is  evil and we know that joran is spoiled and arrogant and just thinks he is above the law because of his dad.. how powerful is this man.. looking t his eyes I see such evil ...why is he so protected...
I may be a little naive or not realy naive mostly  uninformed .....
misskatie


His one comment speaks tomes to me "I have to PROTECT my son".  Interesting word choice "PROTECT" - not "SUPPORT" but "PROTECT". PROTECT from whom or fomr what? That is what I believe is his involvement. He got the call at 4am to pick his son up. Another father got a call at 2am. One boy was late for school, the other boy was on time for school.

Two fathers, and two sons. And man, one of 'em is sweating bullets!



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on June 22, 2008, 06:02:05 PM
******* - thanks for the howdy!

katiekatie2u - Remember that one witness is no witness. Joran is one witness, and Paulus, who picked his son up at 4am is the other witness. BUT, Paulus exercised his right not to testify, so without a body, one witness is NO witness. That was the legal checkmate - Paulus, the fallen elder, knows the halls of the Palace all too well.  He broke one gate (gate = loophole) with exercising his right not to testify.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: katiekatie2u on June 22, 2008, 06:19:34 PM
*******
thanks it does make alot of sense.. I am not here much.. I catch bits and pieces here and there and try to make sense of some of it.
I gotta tell ya you  guys are pretty cool and well versed on the subject..
again I thank you for taking time to respond :: ::MonkeyRoll::
misskatie


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 22, 2008, 06:35:44 PM
LaLa's - In my head, I am trying to connect two things that we have all been discussing lately.  Here in S&S we have been touching on the possibility the J.M. is involved.  Over in NH, we have been discussing the possibility that Paulass's trip to Florida involved a video tape.  Do we know where J.M. was during the few weeks immediately following Natalee's disappearance?  Did Paulass possibly deliver a tape to J.M.?  Is J.M. the source of the Ditch's affluence?  "The News" has a key.  Dirty Hand can break the alibi.  Does the key = the video?  Are The News and Dirty Hand the same?   The News and Dirty Hand walk in all houses.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Blonde on June 22, 2008, 06:42:09 PM
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/Casino/ktrk_022206_holloway6.jpg)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: klaasend on June 22, 2008, 07:50:30 PM
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/Casino/ktrk_022206_holloway6.jpg)

I enlarged, brightened and adjusted the contrast so we could see the other people in this screen capture better:

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/ktrk_022206_holloway6.jpg)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on June 22, 2008, 08:09:55 PM
La la'sMom, Thanks for the warm welcome!  I do agree with you - Been going' round and round myself in one giant circle for years now like most of you.

I'm trying to post other avenues to research - to move away from the 'locals' - the little nobodies IMHO and dig deeper into why Sander 'lost' his cell phone that night, why Koen hides in fear inside his own home, why he cries and sleeps with mummy and pappy, and why that entire family up and FLED Aruba. Also wondering what would scare the bezeebers out of the other little nobodies and make them FLEE Aruba immediately after Natalee went missing. Nobody is afraid of Paulus, so it isn't him. All the codetalkers reference casinos, gamblers, card (SHARKS), loan (SHARKS), Freddy's purse, and the Palace.

Joran said Natalee wanted to see the SHARKS. Seeing his snide humor, perhaps he was no cafone (mob tattletale) and thought it funny to say she wanted to see a loan SHARK.

At 17 he was able to play in torney's in at least two casinos that we know about.

There's another Freddy who was at the Aruba 2005 UltimateBet.com. Freddy Deeb won the Aruba Poker Classic back in 2005...

UltimateBet would have covered Freddy's Purse (Deeb that is - Lebonese guy). The watchtower 'guards' were asleep (looking the  other way). Cards were up sleeves (cheating perhaps?) and were played...   

You're right, we can go round and round and round! Just trying to spin this in a new and fresh direction!




poison note$ (loans)
why did the girl owe money

who knows what song the elder will sing
a poisonous siren in the halls of babylon
he will sing for his son.....


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on June 22, 2008, 08:10:29 PM
she spent her nights at their tables


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 22, 2008, 09:12:31 PM
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/Casino/ktrk_022206_holloway6.jpg)

I enlarged, brightened and adjusted the contrast so we could see the other people in this screen capture better:

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/ktrk_022206_holloway6.jpg)


Thanks Blonde and Klaas....


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 22, 2008, 09:47:06 PM
she spent her nights at their tables



Hi Colombo - at one point, CAPS threw out a suggestion to us.  He felt that Natalee was the wrong girl that night and that she was a substitute.  He thought that it was Virginia who owed money, but "the bird flew away".  Virginia left Aruba on her grandfather's private jet the day before.  Is this possible?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on June 22, 2008, 09:57:52 PM
she spent her nights at their tables



Hi Colombo - at one point, CAPS threw out a suggestion to us.  He felt that Natalee was the wrong girl that night and that she was a substitute.  He thought that it was Virginia who owed money, but "the bird flew away".  Virginia left Aruba on her grandfather's private jet the day before.  Is this possible?
Colombo - first off, I like the way you think!

SS - remember the gal who stayed in Nat's room a week prior, who's friend was buying drugs from the locals - and didn't pay up, so this Nat look-a-like was approached and scared big time to pay up - for her friend...yes, a case of mistaken identity.  Recalling also at the next hotel from the H.I. was a group of teens from Boston MA also celebrating their new found freedom...and I recall Nat and friends spent alot of time at that other hotel with the Bostonites.

And remember - Gretta said someone from Boston approached her, saying they had info on the case but would not solve the case ... didn't one of the two security guards initially picked up pre-joran and kalpoes - have a cute blonde Boston girlfriend???






Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 22, 2008, 10:46:34 PM
she spent her nights at their tables



Hi Colombo - at one point, CAPS threw out a suggestion to us.  He felt that Natalee was the wrong girl that night and that she was a substitute.  He thought that it was Virginia who owed money, but "the bird flew away".  Virginia left Aruba on her grandfather's private jet the day before.  Is this possible?
Colombo - first off, I like the way you think!

SS - remember the gal who stayed in Nat's room a week prior, who's friend was buying drugs from the locals - and didn't pay up, so this Nat look-a-like was approached and scared big time to pay up - for her friend...yes, a case of mistaken identity.  Recalling also at the next hotel from the H.I. was a group of teens from Boston MA also celebrating their new found freedom...and I recall Nat and friends spent alot of time at that other hotel with the Bostonites.

And remember - Gretta said someone from Boston approached her, saying they had info on the case but would not solve the case ... didn't one of the two security guards initially picked up pre-joran and kalpoes - have a cute blonde Boston girlfriend???








Is this the person that Greta met at the airport when she missed her flight to Boston?  Why didn't this information receive more coverage?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: finngirl on June 22, 2008, 11:33:13 PM

june 26/the night before the quarry search,
actually at 12:39am on june 27,
not long after midnight sim said:
"watch tomorrow but do not speak & it will all unfold before you"

the day of the search, june 27 at 12:08pm, sim says:
"They have found her. Watch your news stations for this one.
I said this was to happen. THEY FOUND HER BODY!!

3 minutes later sim says in spanish (& Ally translates)
"he said to keep watching the news,
and that he apologizes for the confusion,
but he is tired of people trying to impersonate him"

the search dogs "hit" in late morning/early afternoon.
until late night/midnight we were still waiting to hear official word
of what they may have found: nothing


Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 12:12 pm
Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon with his 12:30 AM posting.

If the cowboys do not find the loot today, it will not be found

finally, after midnight, when nothing was "admitted" to be found
and posters were seriously criticizing the codetalkers:


1:43am
623. The Simian has a handicap of 12

1:53am
635. The Simian says that The Simian only reports developments ahead of time. The Simian thinks what is going on is shameless. Playing with people's feelings.

1:54am
637. So Shango is schizophrenic and his other personality is Simian. That is priceless you sick freak.

then sim & shango have their big catfight, beginning at #648/2:01am.
sim is feeling insulted by all the criticism from the other posters


6:56am
725. See, this is kind of ridiculous. We've got folks who say they are on the inside or at least close enough to understand what is going [on], they are arguing back and forth and "calling each other out". The above seems to say that Simian can ping Shock/Check and they all know each other. Simian could make a call and get Shango taken in to jail?

What a joke folks, screw this, if you know something F*cking do something besides act like children as you fight over clue supremacy. Knowing something and doing nothing, or not ending something you could help to, serves only to build your ego folks.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

Babalú Says: June 27th, 2005 at 12:30 am
Concerned: No, I guess he is head of some local official corps. He is the guy that knows everything and that has been in the house of Babylonians NOT seeking pleasure for himself, so Shango says. So maybe he went to search for Natalee and he is the chief of Polis.

Shango on June 27th, 2005 12:28 pm
Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon with his
12:30 AM posting

Shango on June 27th, 2005 4:00 am
Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon with his 12:30 posting

Shango on June 27th, 2005 12:12 pm
Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon with his
12:30 AM posting

If the cowboys do not find the loot today, it will not be found

Shango on June 27th, 2005 12:26 pm
Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon with his
12:30 AM posting

Simian your Doppleganger is with us

Shango on June 27th, 2005 12:28 pm
Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon with his
12:30 AM posting

Shango on June 27th, 2005 9:44 pm
Babalu opened a window looking into babylon on his 12:31 A.M. post

DirtyHand is alive

Shango on June 27th, 2005 9:48 pm
Babalu knew who dirty hand was at half past 12

drax on June 27th, 2005 10:57 pm
DirtyHand has walked through the maze:…is DirtyHand Poppa VDS?

Shango on June 27th, 2005 11:01 pm
The Drax asks a question for which he already provided an answer.

Shango on June 27th, 2005 11:04 pm
Babalu opened a window looking onto Babylon with his 12:30 A.M. post

drax on June 27th, 2005 11:08 pm
Shango says: The Drax asks a question for which he already provided an answer.
I don’t understand, Shango.

Babalu on June 27th, 2005 11:10 pm
He’s talking about Dirty Hands identity, please refer to my post of yesterday 12:30 AM. He is JVDS, and not Joran.

Lucy on June 27th, 2005 10:56 pm
Someone said last night that Dirty Hand was somebody in the police.

Shango on June 27th, 2005 11:13 pm
Lucy spoke at 10:56
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

AFAIK this is when shango posted/approximate time/aruba clock:
june 26th: 7 AM to 3:12 PM
8 hours

june 27th: 8 PM to 4 AM
8 hours

june 28th
4 AM to 7 PM
double shift
15 hours

june 29th
OFF

june 30th
6 PM to 7 PM
1 hour

since you know when shango posted
you can look at the articles from the time frame
around those dates to find shango's comments


508 comments/june 24 @ 2:24pm - june 26 @ 1:36am
http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/2005/06/24/natalee-we-arent-there-in-aruba-but-theyre-here-in-our-prayers/#comments

393 comments/june 24 @ 3:33am - june 26 @ 1:14am
http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/2005/06/24/un-crisis-fuera-di-proporcion-a-crisis-out-of-proportion/#comments

242 comments/june 24 @ 5:44pm - october 14 @ 11:16am
http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/2005/06/24/natalee-holloway-afternoon-updates/#comments

504 comments/june 25 @ 11:52am - july 3 @ 11:06pm
http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/2005/06/25/natalee-holloway-saturday-june-25/#comments

98 comments/june 24 @ 11:56pm - august 4 @ 9:57pm
http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/2005/06/25/natalee-holloway-evening-updates/#comments

7:45am
22. What's the morning news Shock?

8:58am
42. Morning, all. Did the judge from Curacao make the flight to Aruba today?

9:11am
49. yes, judge is at courthouse I just heard. Satish's lawyer thinks Satish will be free today. Grrrrr

9:25am
56. Well it is morning so where is the news that Shock was talking about?

409 comments/june 26 @ 9:57am - august 24 @ 9:52pm
http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/2005/06/26/sunday-morning-update/#comments

1001 comments/june 26 @ 2:33pm - june 27 @ 1:44pm
http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/2005/06/26/natalee-holloway-breaking-aruba-news-croes-released/#comments

6:52am
71. bye for now folks...wish shocked monkey would come on...he/she had me so hopeful last night...that there would be answers...seems their theory is seriously challenged now

some shango posts: 128-129-168-169-173-175-177
some simian posts: 170-203-219


10:03pm
219. The alibi needs to be broken. The dogs have pouches on their feet. They are checking the dirty waters in Noord.

The Babylonians knew what the girl did earlier in the week. Therein lies the motive. The third act will [be] played soon, but the boy is not Ajax. He is too afraid to pull off such a feat.

11:23pm
361. Maybe last night's poster was given wrong information that the package from the Hague would be arriving this morning. Maybe it's arriving tomorrow instead. Perhaps the judge who "missed the plane" on Saturday was trying to delay the hearing until he or she could review this package. But it never came, and time required the hearing be held today without it.

221 comments/june 27 @ 11:56am - june 27 @ 1:54pm
http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/2005/06/27/mountain-brook-community-turns-out-for-natalee-holloway/#comments

12:28pm
26. Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon with his 12:30 AM posting

743 comments/june 27 @ 1:56pm - june 28 @ 10:29am
http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/2005/06/27/riehl-world-has-interesting-news/#comments

9:41pm
68. One straight path
to the house of Rave,
while of gold bricks
the road is not paved,
answers mysterious lie within
magical letter which spell
XTC DNA

601 comments/june 27 @ 11:20pm - october 10 @ 9:10am
http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/2005/06/27/natalee-holloway-evening-update/#comments

95 comments/june 28 @ 11:11am - june 28 @ 12:17pm
http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/2005/06/28/natalee-holloway-june-28-2005/#comments

926 comments/june 28 @ 12:20pm - june 28 @ 10:03pm
http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/2005/06/28/aruba-wil-hulp-van-nederlandaruba-wants-aid-of-the-netherlands/#comments

616 comments/june 28 @ 10:05pm - june 29 @ 10:37am
http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/2005/06/28/friend-of-monkey-talks-to-mickey-john/#comments

424 comments/june 29 @ 10:12am - june 29 @ 9:06pm
http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/2005/06/29/natalee-holloway-june-29-morning-update/#comments

306 comments/june 29 @ 3:01pm - june 29 @ 9:51pm
http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/2005/06/29/letter-writing-campaign/#comments

1010 comments/june 29 @ 9:38pm - july 1 @ 8:33am
http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/2005/06/29/msnbc/#comments

261 comments/june 30 @ 12:04pm - june 30 @ 2:29pm
http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/2005/06/30/natalee-holloway-june-30-2005/#comments

804 comments/june 30 @ 12:53pm - june 30 @ 9:57pm
http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/2005/06/30/kalpoe-family-denied-texas-equeesearch-from-searching-around-their-house/#comments

387 comments/june 30 @ 5:35pm - july 1 @ 1:16am
http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/2005/06/30/natalee-holloway-afternoon-update/#comments



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 23, 2008, 12:06:00 AM
Oh Finngirl, thank you so much.  You're an angel.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 23, 2008, 02:02:12 AM
she spent her nights at their tables



Hi Colombo - at one point, CAPS threw out a suggestion to us.  He felt that Natalee was the wrong girl that night and that she was a substitute.  He thought that it was Virginia who owed money, but "the bird flew away".  Virginia left Aruba on her grandfather's private jet the day before.  Is this possible?
Colombo - first off, I like the way you think!

SS - remember the gal who stayed in Nat's room a week prior, who's friend was buying drugs from the locals - and didn't pay up, so this Nat look-a-like was approached and scared big time to pay up - for her friend...yes, a case of mistaken identity.  Recalling also at the next hotel from the H.I. was a group of teens from Boston MA also celebrating their new found freedom...and I recall Nat and friends spent alot of time at that other hotel with the Bostonites.

And remember - Gretta said someone from Boston approached her, saying they had info on the case but would not solve the case ... didn't one of the two security guards initially picked up pre-joran and kalpoes - have a cute blonde Boston girlfriend???







Poochy…lots of ‘stuff’ in your posts to date! Would you mind please posting some references.  Example…the MB group spending time at another hotel, and the SG’s blonde girlfriend. I for one don't have time to google anymore than I am working on right now, and don't recall any reference to the GF being blonde.  TIA

I was thinking Prince Willem-Alexander…not sure how your Prince Pieter fits with your earlier reference to the Freemasons.

Do you have an opinion on ‘Freddy’ as the 5th suspect? Or maybe his internet proclaimed brother Ernesto?…Any on the Florida connections posted about recently? Again…TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on June 23, 2008, 09:30:20 AM
Finngirl - thanks for posting all of that. Two things you point out are quite interesting:

a) That they found her body, and codetalkers were so sure it would be in the news...but her fate was determined by a dirty cop - a poison siren. The copy who slammed the trunk down while Dave looked on perhaps?

b) Who could DirtyHand be?  - He is someone in the 'house of Babylon", he is known as papa VDS (van der stratan, vinnie da snitch (lol), etc), he is known to be dead, but Shango tells us DirtyHand is Alive - some don't come out of their den...remains hidden...So is this VDS someone who took exile to Aruba or is in a witness protection plan, ergo why all the FBI agents miraculously showed up for a missing teen, and why the F16 flyby?

c) What the heck is the House of Babylon? House of orange? Royal House? and is DirtyHand someone who is on the security staff?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on June 23, 2008, 09:32:51 AM

SS - At one time I had a "Boston" folder before my computer crashed a while ago. I will have to google sometime today but this is my recollection:

a) Husband died, so young blonde girl and her guy friend went to Aruba the week before Nat did, stayed in her room. Her guy friend was copping dope from a local and said the girl would be footing his drug tab. Local approached the girl, telling her to pay up or else, and scared her so much she fled off that island. I will try to find internet info.

b) Kids at hotel next door to H.I. were from Boston also celebrating their H.S. grad. Read Nat and friends hung out there alot because the music was better.

c) There was a Boston girl who was reported missing - was in all the news - said she was going to the movies - but they found her car in the airport then found her in Aruba. She didn't tell anybody, just flew and was reported missing by her family. I will find her name for you. I recall her name was the same name as a main character in an online game ...for whatever that piece of info is worth!

d) One of the security guards initially detained in the case said he had a girlfriend from Boston who would fly down to visit him.

I work full time, will try to find the related info for you-may not be able to get it all today but it is what I recall from my file on Boston.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 23, 2008, 10:00:57 AM
SS...Have a time-out from my dish company, but will try and get the Arambatzis stuff finished...maybe you can see a way to fit Lilian, Freddy and 2 Robbys into all of it! Hopefully I can post it later on...that is if they don't extend my time-out as daughter is doing home-work...LOL...DD pleaded with the fellow from India last night...but he didn't fall for my sweet blonde girl's pleas...said it was all auromated, he would if he could!...LOL

SS...sorry to respond to the main thread here, but I am really loading slow!  Do you think Jossy might fit His Lordship? TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 23, 2008, 10:07:43 AM
SS...Have a time-out from my dish company, but will try and get the Arambatzis stuff finished...maybe you can see a way to fit Lilian, Freddy and 2 Robbys into all of it! Hopefully I can post it later on...that is if they don't extend my time-out as daughter is doing home-work...LOL...DD pleaded with the fellow from India last night...but he didn't fall for my sweet blonde girl's pleas...said it was all auromated, he would if he could!...LOL

SS...sorry to respond to the main thread here, but I am really loading slow!  Do you think Jossy might fit His Lordship? TIA

I just hate it when I can't understand a word they are saying.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: WhiskeyGirl on June 23, 2008, 10:44:42 AM
I don't post much in the Shango/Simian thread because it is too scary   ::MonkeyShocked:: ::MonkeyNoNo::

I may read and try to follow along at times.

Simply put..."The House of Orange" = Dutch Royal Family

Quote
The House of Orange-Nassau (in Dutch: Huis van Oranje-Nassau), a branch of the German House of Nassau, has played a central role in the political life of the Netherlands — and at times in Europe — since William I of Orange (also known as "William the Silent" and "Father of the Fatherland") organized the Dutch revolt against Spanish rule, which after the Eighty Years' War led to an independent Dutch state.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Orange-Nassau

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_monarchy

(I always thought Anita looked like the Queen, mo)

http://www.geerts.com/holland/orange-house.htm

http://www.friesian.com/ross/orange.htm



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: WhiskeyGirl on June 23, 2008, 10:53:29 AM
The Prince of Orange

Quote
Willem-Alexander, The Prince of Orange (in Dutch: Z.K.H. de Prins van Oranje). (Dutch given name: Willem-Alexander Claus George Ferdinand; born April 27, 1967) is the eldest son of Queen Beatrix of the Netherlands and the heir apparent to the Dutch throne.

Willem-Alexander Claus George Ferdinand, Prince of Orange, Crown Prince of the Netherlands, Prince of Orange-Nassau, Jonkheer van Amsberg, is the eldest son of Queen Beatrix of the Netherlands and her late husband, Prince Claus of the Netherlands, Jonkheer van Amsberg. The Prince was born in Utrecht. His godparents are Prince Bernhard of the Netherlands (his grandfather), Prince Ferdinand von Bismarck, former Dutch Prime Minister Dr. Jelle Zijlstra, Gosta van Amsberg, Queen Margrethe II of Denmark (at the time Crown Princess of Denmark), and Renee Smith.  ...

Quote
Using the name "van Buren", one of the less well-known surnames of the House of Orange-Nassau, he has participated in the New York City Marathon, where his aunt, Princess Christina, and several cousins live. In the Netherlands, he was a participant in the Frisian Eleven Cities ice skating marathon.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willem-Alexander%2C_Prince_of_Orange

more here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Dutch_royalty


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on June 23, 2008, 11:31:28 AM

SS - At one time I had a "Boston" folder before my computer crashed a while ago. I will have to google sometime today but this is my recollection:

a) Husband died, so young blonde girl and her guy friend went to Aruba the week before Nat did, stayed in her room. Her guy friend was copping dope from a local and said the girl would be footing his drug tab. Local approached the girl, telling her to pay up or else, and scared her so much she fled off that island. I will try to find internet info.

b) Kids at hotel next door to H.I. were from Boston also celebrating their H.S. grad. Read Nat and friends hung out there alot because the music was better.

c) There was a Boston girl who was reported missing - was in all the news - said she was going to the movies - but they found her car in the airport then found her in Aruba. She didn't tell anybody, just flew and was reported missing by her family. I will find her name for you. I recall her name was the same name as a main character in an online game ...for whatever that piece of info is worth!

d) One of the security guards initially detained in the case said he had a girlfriend from Boston who would fly down to visit him.

I work full time, will try to find the related info for you-may not be able to get it all today but it is what I recall from my file on Boston.


SS - found all but one:

a).  http://www.scrux.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=180
Story from Diario January 20th 2006  Few days before the disappearance of Natalee Holloway a YOUNG AMERICAN WHO RESEMBLES NATALEE WAS THREATENED BY ONE FO THE SUSPECTED SECURITY GUARDS IN THIS CASE, ON THE WAY TO HER ROOM. Was staying in a room in front of Natalee Holloway - she looked like Natalee. Read entire story at link.

b).  Still checking.

c). ADRIENNE DELANEY - http://tinyurl.com/6mew4u

d). http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=345.0

6/5/2005 - Antonios Mickey John "On your question what I did there, I will answer you the following: I have a girlfriend who comes to Aruba from Boston. We met last year at the Allegro Hotel. Now that the Allegro Hotel is close, she stays somewhere in an apartment."



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 23, 2008, 11:39:43 AM
Surely, all of you know who this girlfriend is by now.   ::MonkeyCool::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on June 23, 2008, 11:41:30 AM
Anybody know if Mickey John at LION PAW PRODUCTIONS is the same Mickey John security guard? Mickey John sang on one of the Aru-bay Videos (the song was something like 'what does every boy want ahh um, ahh um !) ... and Mickey John also talked on another Aru-bay Video (a recording of his interview was played over the video).



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on June 23, 2008, 11:42:56 AM
Surely, all of you know who this girlfriend is by now.   ::MonkeyCool::

 ::MonkeyConfused::  I have no clue!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 23, 2008, 11:55:45 AM
Surely, all of you know who this girlfriend is by now.   ::MonkeyCool::



LaLa's - I feel like an idiot, but I don't know   ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 23, 2008, 11:58:24 AM
Poochy
Are you saying MJ was the voice on the Aru Bay videos?  How is that possible? Interesting.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 23, 2008, 11:59:31 AM
Surely, all of you know who this girlfriend is by now.   ::MonkeyCool::



LaLa's - I feel like an idiot, but I don't know   ::MonkeyHaHa::

YOu haven't been here long enough to know this.  You get a pass.  But I am not telling...I can't.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 23, 2008, 12:04:15 PM
SS...Have a time-out from my dish company, but will try and get the Arambatzis stuff finished...maybe you can see a way to fit Lilian, Freddy and 2 Robbys into all of it! Hopefully I can post it later on...that is if they don't extend my time-out as daughter is doing home-work...LOL...DD pleaded with the fellow from India last night...but he didn't fall for my sweet blonde girl's pleas...said it was all auromated, he would if he could!...LOL

SS...sorry to respond to the main thread here, but I am really loading slow!  Do you think Jossy might fit His Lordship? TIA

I just hate it when I can't understand a word they are saying.



O/T, but I have to share this.  A few weeks ago, I called Fedex for a package pickup.  Fedex was located less than 1/2 mile from my location.  I could barely understand the voice on the other end that was telling me it would be impossible for Fedex to pickup my package that day.  I asked where he was located and he told me El Salvador.  I delivered the package to Fedex in person.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 23, 2008, 12:24:10 PM
SS...Have a time-out from my dish company, but will try and get the Arambatzis stuff finished...maybe you can see a way to fit Lilian, Freddy and 2 Robbys into all of it! Hopefully I can post it later on...that is if they don't extend my time-out as daughter is doing home-work...LOL...DD pleaded with the fellow from India last night...but he didn't fall for my sweet blonde girl's pleas...said it was all auromated, he would if he could!...LOL

SS...sorry to respond to the main thread here, but I am really loading slow!  Do you think Jossy might fit His Lordship? TIA



It's certainly possible that JM could be His Lordship.  I originally thought that Rudy was Dirty Hand, but JM seems to have more power and the ability to reach into more parts of that island than Rudy does.  Dirty Hand seems to have a lot of power.  Shango also said that Dirty Hand doesn't take part in the Raves and we heard that Rudy imports girls from Venezuela.  I kind of eliminated Rudy based on the girls.  I am now wondering if Rudy is the Arawak King because of his brother Betico's high esteem and importance.  I went back and read the posts from June 27th, 2005 and I don't think that Dirty Hand is van der Stratten.  Shango made several statements in that post about someone of power helping with the search and then he also mentioned the chief of police.  I don't know if Shango meant that Babalu had all parts of the clue correct or if he had hit on part of it at 12:30.  I don't think van der Straten has that much power, but I could be completely off base.  It's typical Shango - yesterday I thought Rudy was Dirty Hand, and today I think it's JM.  ::MonkeyConfused::

Freddy is really getting under my skin and I want to know who he is.  Somebody, somewhere knows who he is.  Is the name Zedan a possible first name and Freddy just a nickname?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on June 23, 2008, 12:41:53 PM
Poochy
Are you saying MJ was the voice on the Aru Bay videos?  How is that possible? Interesting.

yup. There were many clues on those videos IMHO. Here's the interview where MJ says he was at soul beach.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_X1QfGcQfU     

And there's one where he sang the song 'what do every boy want". 

Did you know Sinbad, the commedian who ran the Soul Beach Music Festival on Aruba in 2005 - the name of his production company is called David and Goliath, because his real name is DAVID ADKINS. One of Aru-bay video's was entitled 'David and Goliath" - the one where the cruise ship is facing one way, a little boat facing the other, and the video pauses as if to make a trade...

I always wondered Sinbad was DirtyHand - because there was rumor that he was dead, and alot of hits on him being Alive as in 'Dirty hand is ALIVE like this one: -->

Who's Alive and Who's Dead: Sinbad (David Adkins)Who's Alive and Who's Dead: Sinbad (David Adkins) is ALIVE. This reference site helps you find out which famous people are alive and which are dead.
www.wa-wd.com/n/sinbad.htm - 9k - Cached - Similar pages  
 



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 23, 2008, 01:22:21 PM
Thanks Poochy. You have confirmed something I have thought for some time now...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 23, 2008, 01:23:48 PM
Surely, all of you know who this girlfriend is by now.   ::MonkeyCool::



LaLa's - I feel like an idiot, but I don't know   ::MonkeyHaHa::

YOu haven't been here long enough to know this.  You get a pass.  But I am not telling...I can't.



Pass it to me in a future post.   ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 23, 2008, 01:27:18 PM
Poochy,
I had heard that one before...I am confused now.  I always thought that was dubbed over that video from an interview.  I knew the video was made in an attempt to clear the SG.  I have often wondered about the person with the camera...a few dots I have left on that one that I will never be able to connect.  Do you know if that is part of the video or added to it at a later time?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on June 23, 2008, 01:38:27 PM
Poochy,
I had heard that one before...I am confused now.  I always thought that was dubbed over that video from an interview.  I knew the video was made in an attempt to clear the SG.  I have often wondered about the person with the camera...a few dots I have left on that one that I will never be able to connect.  Do you know if that is part of the video or added to it at a later time?

i should clarify - I don't think MJ cruned into the vid camera as it was being filmed. I think it was dubbed in after the film was shot.

i dont' think the video was made to clear anybody. I think it was made to document what might have happened to Natalee. If you listen to some of the music - at times it sounds 'woozy' as in drunk. I know that sounds funny, but I think everybody is afraid of someone on that island, and whether writing cryptically or filming clues - they want the truth to be told somehow.

As to your other q about if it was added at a later time, I can tell you I grabbed those videos about a day or two after the main one was taken down (unfortunately). On another computer that crashed they were not titled 'arub-bay #x" but had actual titles on the webpage, that's no longer around. But yes, the videos as poster Chicago510 pulled them down also are the original ones - nothing had been changed.

If you're familiar w/them, on one of the ones taken of the tattoo boat - early in the beginning of the first video the camera guy zooms into a young guy w/dark hair sitting at the bar... then the tattoo was immediately sold.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 23, 2008, 01:50:21 PM
Thanks Poochy.  Then I am not as confused as I thought.  That is always a good thing with a dummy like myself.  Yes, I remember that part on the Tattoo.  You have cleared it up for me.

Now, let's talk about Dirty Hand.  I have spent countless hours on the Shango riddles and one thing I do know is nothing is concrete so when you think you have dirty hand it can change with the latest known info. LOL 

Let's say JM is indeed the person.  How does that fit with what we know?  Yes, he would walk in all places...yes, he would know who provided escort that night after K2 left. Both vander Straaten and JM fit this scenario.  Then again Shango says he walked with the fallen elder...that does not fit.  So you have things that fit and things that don't.  Oh let's not forget there are many dirty hands and one that is Arawak Dirty Hand which I think is  Rudy Croes. JMO. I base that on info given by Tylergal many moons ago.  She was convinced he was Dirty Hand and she had a very reasonable argument to support it.   So many great minds thinking here. I just love this thread....but then again, I think everyone knows that by now.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Observer on June 23, 2008, 01:58:43 PM
The video was obviously dubbed and edited and I suspect that was done by Chris Hodge..AKA Pietjezz


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 23, 2008, 02:21:20 PM
The video was obviously dubbed and edited and I suspect that was done by Chris Hodge..AKA Pietjezz

Yes, Obs and who had an office near the Race Junkies in Aruba?  The dead reporter with her hand in her pocket.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on June 23, 2008, 02:24:38 PM
Lala'sMom,

I can't grasp JM as DirtyHand. But I do see JM always ignoring what the codetalkers have to say, and always pointing a finger at Joran. If Joran was the 'delivery boy", then in that respect JM would be protecting someone else who took over after Joran delivered his little package. JM always found witnesses that spotted Joran and Kalpoes. He is like Beth not wanting to look elsewhere. Maybe they are right, and we and codetalkers are wrong ?

Here all the 'DirtyHand' posts I have:  (regardless how you spell it upper/lower case DdHh): w/my added comments in RED CAPS BELOW.

a.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:42 pm
Arawaks hold singing card from Babylon.  There is also a trio. One Babylonian. 2 Shivas. Arawaks can’t let babylonian Card sing because hand holding it dirty too. Many teepees fall. No Wampum. Cowboys eat Sacrifice. Arawaks eat sacrifice. Dirty hand stays hidden, but all are well-fed. Cowboys happy, but unrest in the halls of the palace. Babylon owes the Arawaks!
(IMHO THERE WAS A "BABYLONIAN CARD" BEING HELD AT ANOTHER JAIL FACILITY - AND THEY CAN'T LET HIM 'SING' BECAUSE THE ONES HOLDING HIM ARE DIRTY ALSO. I BELIEVE THIS WAS THE 5TH SUSPECT - THE ONE WE NEVER HEARD ABOUT - THE SECRET ONE - NOT PAULUS OR LORENZO BUT A MYSTERY GUY).

b.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:50 pm
If Babylonian Card sings, all will fall. Teepees and the house of Babylon. We must have a sacrifice. Hide dirty hand. Light the fires!
(AND IF THIS BABYLONIAN CARD SINGS, ALL WILL FALL - SO GET JORAN AS THE SACRIFICE, AND HIDE DIRTY HAND)

c.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:53 pm
If Babylonian card sings ALL will fall. Teepees and the house of Babylon. If cowboys stay, after the sacrifice, everyone see dirty hand. No Wampum, Many Moons. Light the fires.

d.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:55 pm
If cowboys see dirty hand, many teepees fall. House of Babylon falls. we must have a sacrifice to feed the cowboys. they go back to the fort with no loot.
(IF COWBOYS SEE DIRTY HAND, NOTE, NOT IF THEY 'HEAR DIRTY HAND'... ) SO WHO IS THIS BEING HELD?  

e.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:32 m
The sacrifice is the correct food to appease the gods, arawaks, and cowboys but the foundations of the house of babylon will shake even harder if Arawak Dirty Hand is revealed.
[AGAIN, SHANGO REITERATES THAT THE CORRECT FOOD TO APPEASE EVERYBODY IS JORAN, THE SACRIFICE. THEY CANNOT REVEAL DIRTY HAND]

f.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:39 pm
Every tribe has bad Indians.  Every fort has bad cowboys.  If sirens sing a poison song, all will get sick.  [IF COPS TELL ABOUT THIS DIRTYHAND THEY ARE SECRETLY HOLDING - NOT GOOD] Arawaks and cowboys working well.  Arawaks fear wrath of cowboys for DirtyHand.  But babylonians live in teepees too.  If the house of babylon is to remain erect, it must protect the babylonians who have lived in teepees, among the arawaks, for a long time. babylon will agree to a sacrifice of newer teepee dwellers to prevent the story of dirtyhand being made public.  [NOBODY MUST KNOW ABOUT THE STORY OF DIRTYHAND - CANNOT BE MADE PUBLIC BUT MUST BE HIDDEN]  Dirtyhand scares arawaks too.  the sacrifice will be the correct sacrifice to appease the gods and cowboys.  cowboys will leave without loot.

g.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:54 pm
The Arawaks are not going to sacrifice a scapegoat. Babylon needs to allow one sacrifice to keep DirtyHand hidden. [JORAN THE SACRIFICE WILL KEEP DIRTYHAND HIDDEN]  Babylon scared of DirtyHand. Arawaks scared of DirtyHand. If sacrifice is made, teepees are safe, villagers and cowboys happy. If DirtyHand discovered, House of Babylon falls, Teepees crushed under great house [AGAIN, DIRTYHAND CANNOT BE DISCOVERED]

h.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:58 pm
Arawaks want to make cowboys happy. Babylonians want to maintain integrity of Great House.
Gods of the cowboys know there was a game in the great house, and so DirtyHand was discovered.[GODS OF COWBOYS = USA GOVT = CONDI RICE POSING W/BETH AND ALL THE FBI AGENTS ON ARUBA]  But the sacrifice will be offered before dirty hand sings. He will return to babylon, broken but anonymous. [DIRTYHAND WILL NOT SING, JORAN WILL BE THE OFFERED SACRIFICE, AND DIRTYHAND WILL RETURN BACK TO BABYLON]

i.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 6:02 pm
The babylonians are to blame. The arawaks were worried about teepees and the cowboys. They did not bring DirtyHand into the Tribe! He will go back to babylon broken, after the sacrifice is eaten [NOBODY INVITED DIRTYHAND TO COME ONTO ARUBA]

j.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 6:04 pm
If DirtyHand sings, sacrifice will still be eaten. [EVEN IF DIRTYHAND TALKS, JORAN WILL BE SACRIFICED] But there will be many more people at the feast, and the cowboys would resent the Arawaks for Babylons interference.

k.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 6:13 pm
His lordship did not bring the key, it does not exist. doors to eden remain closed. The arawaks hold the singing cards. They have the babylonian and 2 shivas. But the other card is dirty. Even if you play cards in the house of babylon as an arawak, you still have DirtyHand. If DirtyHand comes out of hiding, Babylon will fall and the cowboys will circle the wagons. DirtyHand can destroy the Arawaks and Babylon. Better to prepare the sacrifice quickly so the cowboys go home ….without the loot

l.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 6:19 pm
There are many DirtyHands among the Arawak, and so it has been for centuries.

m.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 6:28 pm
All preceding stated is verifiable.  DirtyHand is well known.  there will be a sacrifice.  the gods have been talking. the fires have been lit. the cowboys will go back to the fort without the loot that is why they are preparing the sacrifice All fear DirtyHand. Arawaks and Babylon. I must go feed the messengers

n.   Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 8:04 pm
The young Lamb der Sloot shall be the sacrifice for the Arawaks and the cowboys. All will sit around the fire and feast on scapegoat. The gods are talking. DirtyHand is alive and well. [SO WHO IS THIS DIRTYHAND WHO WAS TO BE PRESUMED SICK AND THEN DEAD, BUT IS ALIVE AND WELL?]

o.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 8:25 pm
The Arawaks want the truth to come out. As long as DirtyHand is not found. Aruba is preserved and Babylon will pay the price. the gods know that the blame lies on Babylon. the cowboys will go back to the fort without the loot

p.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:19 pm
DirtyHand is not an Arawak. [NOT A NATIVE TO ARUBA]  The singing card can not be played. The cowboys would circle the wagons. The arawaks are preparing the sacrifice. light the fires. the gods are talking.

q.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:32 pm
His lordship is there to preserve Babylon. not the elder. remember dirtyhand.

r.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:35 pm
DirtyHand is not an Arawak. Many pioneers have settled with the tribe.

s.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:48 pm
The card of babylon was already played. if it sings, DirtyHand will bring down the Royal House on top of the Arawak Nation. [DIRTYHAND IS THE BABYLON CARD. IF DIRTYHAND TALKS THE ROYAL HOUSE WILL COME DOWN HARD ON ARUBA]  the gods have handed down a pipe of peace, but a sacrifice will be made. Some elders of the game, not just of babylon walk in older circles. cowboys hear the singing, but the words are not understood. The gods and the babylonians are worried about the cowboys response.

t.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 8:27 pm
DirtyHand and the fallen judge may not be crucified. the gods are talking. [THE FALLEN JUDGE IS PAULUS? WAS PAULUS A JUDGE WHEN SHANGO WROTE THIS? OR IS THE JUDGE DE WITT?]

u.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:55 pm
DirtyHand walks with the elders. Babylon knows.

v.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:58 pm
DirtyHand knows the Babylonians that provided escort after the 2 shivas left. [THIS IS WHAT DIRTYHAND KNOWS - AND CAN SING - THE NAMES OF THE BABYLONIANS (PLURAL) WHO ESCORTED NATALEE WHEN KALPOES LEFT]

w.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:04 pm
Are the children of the elders there, or did they flee to Babylon? [THIS EXPLAINS WHO THE ELDERS ARE - FATHERS OF THE KIDS WHO FLED ARUBA]  DirtyHand knows, this is his Power. there will be 46 sacrifices. [46 HOTELS WERE ON ARUBA AT THE TIME SHANGO WROTE THIS]

x.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:16 pm
Mary was not a Virgin. The Arawaks know. The cowboys know. DirtyHand can break the Alibi, he walks all circles. The Simian knows this

y.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:18 pm
If the Alibi is broken by DirtyHand the walls of Babylon will shake.

z.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:30 pm
You always find forbidden desires in the small houses of Babylon. the girl knew this. Find DirtyHand! He too walked in this house of Babylon. But not to satiate desire.  [DIRTYHAND WAS PRESENT WHEN ALL THIS WENT DOWN AND IS AN EYE WITNESS]

aa.   Shango Says:June 26th, 2005 at 10:48 pm
Coverups begin with elders [CROMVORT SECURITY, ETC]  and the founders of the houses of Babylon. [INTERESTING - FOUNDERS OF THE HOUSES OF BABYLON] Not the minions. DirtyHand knows this.

bb.   Shango Says:June 26th, 2005 at 10:53 pm
DirtyHand is the key. He walks with the elders. He walks in all houses. And he walked with the fallen elder. he was the hidden card that was played. now if he sings, babylon will fall on the arawak nation

cc.   Shango Says:June 26th, 2005 at 11:05 pm
DirtyHand has worked for the elders  for a long time. [DIRTYHAND IS UNDER THE ELDERS - HAS WORKED FOR THEM]

dd.   Shango Says:June 27th , 2005 at 9:44 pm
Babalu opened a window looking into babylon on his 12:31 A.M. Post  DirtyHand is alive.

ee.   Shango Says:June 27th , 2005 at 9:48 pm
Babalu knew who dirty hand was at half past 12

ff.   Shango Says:June 27th , 2005 at 9:51 pm
DirtyHand walks with the Babylons, the Arawaks and is consort to the fallen elder
The gods are talking

gg.   Shango Says:June 27th , 2005 at 9:59 pm
DirtyHand can bring down all houses. DirtyHand is the key. His reach is long. He walks in all circles. consort to all, except for the gods. He knows the sacrifice is not responsible

hh.   Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:05 pm
The dice throwers know the maze of the rave and the fly that entered the trap. DirtyHand is the key. He walks in many circles.

ii.   Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:09 pm
Young Babylonians and Shivas do not build sand castles. DirtyHand knows this. Children of the Elders play in the maze, but DirtyHand is afraid to rave

jj.   Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:49 pm
The maze offers many hidden desires deflowerings of forbidden fruits. DirtyHand knows. So does the elder. The lamb is a scapegoat.

kk.   Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:52 pm
DirtyHand has walked through the maze. He knows of the forbidden fruit and the gardeners.

ll.   Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:18 pm
DirtyHand does not play with the lions. but he has entered the maze. the lamb is a scapegoat. DirtyHand knows. So does the Elder.

mm.   Shango Says:June 27th, 2005 at 11:26 pm
The Arawaks will not enter the maze unless the cowboys refuse the peace pipe. Follow the music, the lions are not tame. DirtyHand knows, so does the elder.

nn.   Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:43 pm
Mary rolled into the maze to play with lions but it was not a game. the lamb ran bleating afraid to walk through the maze. why don’t the arawaks ambush the lions? The cowboys don’t know.
DirtyHand knows, but is afraid of the Arawak Nation. The gods are talking

oo.   Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 12:39 am
The threadsurfers are opening the door to Babylon. be careful of the lions. DirtyHand does not have them tamed but he can enter the den. tell the cowboys.

pp.   Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 2:59 am
The Simian Doppleganger is upset because the arawak nation is hiding the truth from the cowboys. DirtyHand knows. Simian knows. The Simian stated for 2 days, the key would come from the hague the next day. Shango said no two times. Is Simian a DirtyHand too. Has the Simian played with the lions in the houses of ill-repute and poison notes where the innocent flies are lured? Has the Simian, primate that he is, fed with the other animals? Back ye fetid mongrel, as the 46th are you; delegate of the 7th level of inferno, not birthed, but spewed from the dark chasm of a nightmare!

qq.   Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:13 pm
1. Lucy spoke at 10:56 # Lucy Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:56 pm
Someone said last night that Dirty Hand was somebody in the police.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Observer on June 23, 2008, 02:34:04 PM
The video was obviously dubbed and edited and I suspect that was done by Chris Hodge..AKA Pietjezz

Yes, Obs and who had an office near the Race Junkies in Aruba?  The dead reporter with her hand in her pocket.
I am not aware of a office,but I am aware of what this man has said in private and his relations with Ed Smith who filmed the video. Also,I am in contact with that reporters family,it was not her that hung herself with one hand in her pocket but it was her camera man Camilo. Her picture was the one with a bed spread over her on top of the wall. I have them all saved and have done as much research as I can without getting on the phone and calling people.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on June 23, 2008, 02:47:55 PM
The video was obviously dubbed and edited and I suspect that was done by Chris Hodge..AKA Pietjezz

Yes, Obs and who had an office near the Race Junkies in Aruba?  The dead reporter with her hand in her pocket.
I am not aware of a office,but I am aware of what this man has said in private and his relations with Ed Smith who filmed the video. Also,I am in contact with that reporters family,it was not her that hung herself with one hand in her pocket but it was her camera man Camilo. Her picture was the one with a bed spread over her on top of the wall. I have them all saved and have done as much research as I can without getting on the phone and calling people.

I know I pulled them off of the website www.aru-bay.com (see the archive http://www.archive.org/index.php ) when we were all informed they were there. There were many other aru-bay videos posted that were non-Natalee related. I grabbed them around the end of August 05. Mickey John's voice was there, so was his musical recording overlayed on the tape. I also heard about some folks contacting the site owner, but I don't know what became of it, nor know them personally. I was asked to do an in-depth analysis of each tape, which I did and handed over to a family member. A poster Chicago510 pulled them off also, which is why they were also know as the 'Chicago510 videos'.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 23, 2008, 02:52:14 PM
FYI...Mum is fighting with her internet provider at the moment and can't answer or post her info. LOL  Seems living in the boonies has it's drawbacks.  She will be here as soon as she can to post the info as promised.




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 23, 2008, 02:53:24 PM
Well I am aware of an office...reliable source of info.  Lives there. Works in building next door.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on June 23, 2008, 02:57:02 PM
Can't find the aru-bay video with MJ's song, but here's the song being played on the coffeepotghost!

http://www.coffeepotghost.com/NATALEE_HOLLOWAY_CASE_index.html



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Observer on June 23, 2008, 02:59:55 PM
Well I am aware of an office...reliable source of info.  Lives there. Works in building next door.
Who? Ed Smith?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on June 23, 2008, 03:45:03 PM
This is in reference to if Paulus was in fact a 'judge' when Shango wrote his prose, making him a 'fallen judge".
The article was dated Monday, June 27, 2005

http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2005/06/paul_van_der_sl_1.html

"...Two years ago Van der Sloot Ditch got the opportunity to become a judge. With his background that meant that he had follow a training course of three years. During that training period, he was appointed as a substitute judge in the Antillean court. Van der Sloot completed the training period of a year in the Netherlands recently but he has not conducted a court(hearing) yet. "


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 23, 2008, 03:50:17 PM
Poochy - I have two questions for you...

1.  Is your beautiful dog a Bearded Collie?  I had the regular Collies for years.

2.  Where have you been all this time?  We can certainly use your help.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 23, 2008, 03:53:05 PM
This is in reference to if Paulus was in fact a 'judge' when Shango wrote his prose, making him a 'fallen judge".
The article was dated Monday, June 27, 2005

http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2005/06/paul_van_der_sl_1.html

"...Two years ago Van der Sloot Ditch got the opportunity to become a judge. With his background that meant that he had follow a training course of three years. During that training period, he was appointed as a substitute judge in the Antillean court. Van der Sloot completed the training period of a year in the Netherlands recently but he has not conducted a court(hearing) yet. "




I had read that he went to Holland for three months to study for the exam, but in March, prior to Natalee's disappearance, he failed the exam.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 23, 2008, 03:54:00 PM
Well I am aware of an office...reliable source of info.  Lives there. Works in building next door.
Who? Ed Smith?

Don't know Ed Smith...know of him, but not personally.  I also read about this office way back when...of course I couldn't find it now if my life depended on it. LOL  That is why I asked my source.  You know how sources are...some good...some bad.  Doesn't matter anyway.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on June 23, 2008, 04:08:27 PM
Poochy - I have two questions for you...

1.  Is your beautiful dog a Bearded Collie?  I had the regular Collies for years.

2.  Where have you been all this time?  We can certainly use your help.

SS - She's a Coton de Tulear, a cousin of the Bichon Frise. This is just a pic I got off the net. My baby is almost a year old and I'll upload a pic when I get a chance. The Coton's hair is just that - like one giant cotton ball and you have to keep up with it. In 3 years the cotton fur turns to real hair, a bit more manageable. Coton's are not akc registered here -- too afraid the puppy mills will get a hold of the breed as their hair doesn't shed, just like a Bichon. 

Where have I been? I've been trying to get into the cage,  that's where I've been LOL! Thanks to the help of some posters I can finally chat w/ya. Been reading and enjoying your posts for quite a while! It's so nice to chat and contribute all this "useless codetalker knowledge" I have compiled about this case w/regard to codetalkers.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 23, 2008, 04:13:25 PM
Lala'sMom,

I can't grasp JM as DirtyHand. But I do see JM always ignoring what the codetalkers have to say, and always pointing a finger at Joran. If Joran was the 'delivery boy", then in that respect JM would be protecting someone else who took over after Joran delivered his little package. JM always found witnesses that spotted Joran and Kalpoes. He is like Beth not wanting to look elsewhere. Maybe they are right, and we and codetalkers are wrong ?

Here all the 'DirtyHand' posts I have:  (regardless how you spell it upper/lower case DdHh): w/my added comments in RED CAPS BELOW.

a.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:42 pm
Arawaks hold singing card from Babylon.  There is also a trio. One Babylonian. 2 Shivas. Arawaks can’t let babylonian Card sing because hand holding it dirty too. Many teepees fall. No Wampum. Cowboys eat Sacrifice. Arawaks eat sacrifice. Dirty hand stays hidden, but all are well-fed. Cowboys happy, but unrest in the halls of the palace. Babylon owes the Arawaks!
(IMHO THERE WAS A "BABYLONIAN CARD" BEING HELD AT ANOTHER JAIL FACILITY - AND THEY CAN'T LET HIM 'SING' BECAUSE THE ONES HOLDING HIM ARE DIRTY ALSO. I BELIEVE THIS WAS THE 5TH SUSPECT - THE ONE WE NEVER HEARD ABOUT - THE SECRET ONE - NOT PAULUS OR LORENZO BUT A MYSTERY GUY). This would be Freddy, IMO.  He was arrested early on, several posters in Aruba stated that as fact and they were not just Julia and the likes. It was also on the radio and such. He was held somewhere and kept quiet.  Several think it is Steve Croes, but he wasn't arrested by then.  Only Freddy's name keeps popping up at this point with various sources and posters at that time.

b.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:50 pm
If Babylonian Card sings, all will fall. Teepees and the house of Babylon. We must have a sacrifice. Hide dirty hand. Light the fires!
(AND IF THIS BABYLONIAN CARD SINGS, ALL WILL FALL - SO GET JORAN AS THE SACRIFICE, AND HIDE DIRTY HAND) My contention is this person knew what happened that night because they were there...remember the alibi worked NOT for the Sloots.  "Who said the alibi worked for the Sloots?"

c.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:53 pm
If Babylonian card sings ALL will fall. Teepees and the house of Babylon. If cowboys stay, after the sacrifice, everyone see dirty hand. No Wampum, Many Moons. Light the fires.

d.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:55 pm
If cowboys see dirty hand, many teepees fall. House of Babylon falls. we must have a sacrifice to feed the cowboys. they go back to the fort with no loot.
(IF COWBOYS SEE DIRTY HAND, NOTE, NOT IF THEY 'HEAR DIRTY HAND'... ) SO WHO IS THIS BEING HELD?  Are you saying that this person being held is a dirty hand?  I have often thought that and I think Colombo thinks that as well.

e.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:32 m
The sacrifice is the correct food to appease the gods, arawaks, and cowboys but the foundations of the house of babylon will shake even harder if Arawak Dirty Hand is revealed.
[AGAIN, SHANGO REITERATES THAT THE CORRECT FOOD TO APPEASE EVERYBODY IS JORAN, THE SACRIFICE. THEY CANNOT REVEAL DIRTY HAND] Shango says that Joran is who they need to punish in order to make everyone happy.  He does not say he is the killer, he says he is a scapegoat.  That does not indicate pointing the finger at Joran as guilty. In fact, it tells me the opposite.  Shango did not think J2K were guilty of anything except delivering the girl.

f.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:39 pm
Every tribe has bad Indians.  Every fort has bad cowboys.  If sirens sing a poison song, all will get sick.  [IF COPS TELL ABOUT THIS DIRTYHAND THEY ARE SECRETLY HOLDING - NOT GOOD] Arawaks and cowboys working well.  Arawaks fear wrath of cowboys for DirtyHand.  But babylonians live in teepees too.  If the house of babylon is to remain erect, it must protect the babylonians who have lived in teepees, among the arawaks, for a long time. babylon will agree to a sacrifice of newer teepee dwellers to prevent the story of dirtyhand being made public.  [NOBODY MUST KNOW ABOUT THE STORY OF DIRTYHAND - CANNOT BE MADE PUBLIC BUT MUST BE HIDDEN]  Dirtyhand scares arawaks too.  the sacrifice will be the correct sacrifice to appease the gods and cowboys.  cowboys will leave without loot. DH would have to be someone we all know and it would blow the lid off everything.  Well, the corruption is being peeled away layer by layer now. Still thinking vander Straten, at the time of Shango posting, would have been the likley choice.

g.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:54 pm
The Arawaks are not going to sacrifice a scapegoat. Babylon needs to allow one sacrifice to keep DirtyHand hidden. [JORAN THE SACRIFICE WILL KEEP DIRTYHAND HIDDEN]  Babylon scared of DirtyHand. Arawaks scared of DirtyHand. If sacrifice is made, teepees are safe, villagers and cowboys happy. If DirtyHand discovered, House of Babylon falls, Teepees crushed under great house [AGAIN, DIRTYHAND CANNOT BE DISCOVERED] Who ever is dirty hand would have to have had the ability to help Joran get a lighter sentence or time served in some way so as to prevent his being revealed.  Paulus could arrange that knowing who dirty hand was.

h.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:58 pm
Arawaks want to make cowboys happy. Babylonians want to maintain integrity of Great House.
Gods of the cowboys know there was a game in the great house, and so DirtyHand was discovered.[GODS OF COWBOYS = USA GOVT = CONDI RICE POSING W/BETH AND ALL THE FBI AGENTS ON ARUBA]  But the sacrifice will be offered before dirty hand sings. He will return to babylon, broken but anonymous. [DIRTYHAND WILL NOT SING, JORAN WILL BE THE OFFERED SACRIFICE, AND DIRTYHAND WILL RETURN BACK TO BABYLON]

i.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 6:02 pm
The babylonians are to blame. The arawaks were worried about teepees and the cowboys. They did not bring DirtyHand into the Tribe! He will go back to babylon broken, after the sacrifice is eaten [NOBODY INVITED DIRTYHAND TO COME ONTO ARUBA]

j.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 6:04 pm
If DirtyHand sings, sacrifice will still be eaten. [EVEN IF DIRTYHAND TALKS, JORAN WILL BE SACRIFICED] But there will be many more people at the feast, and the cowboys would resent the Arawaks for Babylons interference.  This tells me that Shango had an inkling that dirty hand might be found out and have to talk.  It would not matter by this time on June 26 because Joran would still pay the price.  That always gives me pause, because Shango sounds almost sorry that Joran would be punished.

k.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 6:13 pm
His lordship did not bring the key, it does not exist. doors to eden remain closed. The arawaks hold the singing cards. They have the babylonian and 2 shivas. But the other card is dirty. Even if you play cards in the house of babylon as an arawak, you still have DirtyHand. If DirtyHand comes out of hiding, Babylon will fall and the cowboys will circle the wagons. DirtyHand can destroy the Arawaks and Babylon. Better to prepare the sacrifice quickly so the cowboys go home ….without the loot

l.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 6:19 pm
There are many DirtyHands among the Arawak, and so it has been for centuries. These are the corrupt officials that have held Aruba in its grip for so long...that includes mafia connections also.

m.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 6:28 pm
All preceding stated is verifiable.  DirtyHand is well known.  there will be a sacrifice.  the gods have been talking. the fires have been lit. the cowboys will go back to the fort without the loot that is why they are preparing the sacrifice All fear DirtyHand. Arawaks and Babylon. I must go feed the messengers Shango says that all we need to do is check it out...it's all there to find out. We never looked in the right directions at the time.  Seemed too far fetched,now it's too late to retrieve some of this info from back then.

n.   Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 8:04 pm
The young Lamb der Sloot shall be the sacrifice for the Arawaks and the cowboys. All will sit around the fire and feast on scapegoat. The gods are talking. DirtyHand is alive and well. [SO WHO IS THIS DIRTYHAND WHO WAS TO BE PRESUMED SICK AND THEN DEAD, BUT IS ALIVE AND WELL?] Who said they thought Dirty Hand was sick?  I never have seen that in the posts in context.  I must have missed it.

o.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 8:25 pm
The Arawaks want the truth to come out. As long as DirtyHand is not found. Aruba is preserved and Babylon will pay the price. the gods know that the blame lies on Babylon. the cowboys will go back to the fort without the loot

p.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:19 pm
DirtyHand is not an Arawak. [NOT A NATIVE TO ARUBA]  The singing card can not be played. The cowboys would circle the wagons. The arawaks are preparing the sacrifice. light the fires. the gods are talking.

q.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:32 pm
His lordship is there to preserve Babylon. not the elder. remember dirtyhand.

r.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:35 pm
DirtyHand is not an Arawak. Many pioneers have settled with the tribe.

s.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:48 pm
The card of babylon was already played. if it sings, DirtyHand will bring down the Royal House on top of the Arawak Nation. [DIRTYHAND IS THE BABYLON CARD. IF DIRTYHAND TALKS THE ROYAL HOUSE WILL COME DOWN HARD ON ARUBA]  the gods have handed down a pipe of peace, but a sacrifice will be made. Some elders of the game, not just of babylon walk in older circles. cowboys hear the singing, but the words are not understood. The gods and the babylonians are worried about the cowboys response.

t.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 8:27 pm
DirtyHand and the fallen judge may not be crucified. the gods are talking. [THE FALLEN JUDGE IS PAULUS? WAS PAULUS A JUDGE WHEN SHANGO WROTE THIS? OR IS THE JUDGE DE WITT?] Paulus would be the fallen judge as well as the fallen elder.  I think Shango interchanged his terms here.  Actually, it could have been someone else that posted as Shango at the time and didn't use the same terminology as the first Shango or knew him as a judge and subliminally let it slip.

u.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:55 pm
DirtyHand walks with the elders. Babylon knows.

v.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:58 pm
DirtyHand knows the Babylonians that provided escort after the 2 shivas left. [THIS IS WHAT DIRTYHAND KNOWS - AND CAN SING - THE NAMES OF THE BABYLONIANS (PLURAL) WHO ESCORTED NATALEE WHEN KALPOES LEFT]

w.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:04 pm
Are the children of the elders there, or did they flee to Babylon? [THIS EXPLAINS WHO THE ELDERS ARE - FATHERS OF THE KIDS WHO FLED ARUBA]  DirtyHand knows, this is his Power. there will be 46 sacrifices. [46 HOTELS WERE ON ARUBA AT THE TIME SHANGO WROTE THIS]

x.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:16 pm
Mary was not a Virgin. The Arawaks know. The cowboys know. DirtyHand can break the Alibi, he walks all circles. The Simian knows this

y.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:18 pm
If the Alibi is broken by DirtyHand the walls of Babylon will shake.

z.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:30 pm
You always find forbidden desires in the small houses of Babylon. the girl knew this. Find DirtyHand! He too walked in this house of Babylon. But not to satiate desire.  [DIRTYHAND WAS PRESENT WHEN ALL THIS WENT DOWN AND IS AN EYE WITNESS]

aa.   Shango Says:June 26th, 2005 at 10:48 pm
Coverups begin with elders [CROMVORT SECURITY, ETC]  and the founders of the houses of Babylon. [INTERESTING - FOUNDERS OF THE HOUSES OF BABYLON] Not the minions. DirtyHand knows this.

bb.   Shango Says:June 26th, 2005 at 10:53 pm
DirtyHand is the key. He walks with the elders. He walks in all houses. And he walked with the fallen elder. he was the hidden card that was played. now if he sings, babylon will fall on the arawak nation

cc.   Shango Says:June 26th, 2005 at 11:05 pm
DirtyHand has worked for the elders  for a long time. [DIRTYHAND IS UNDER THE ELDERS - HAS WORKED FOR THEM]

dd.   Shango Says:June 27th , 2005 at 9:44 pm
Babalu opened a window looking into babylon on his 12:31 A.M. Post  DirtyHand is alive.

ee.   Shango Says:June 27th , 2005 at 9:48 pm
Babalu knew who dirty hand was at half past 12

ff.   Shango Says:June 27th , 2005 at 9:51 pm
DirtyHand walks with the Babylons, the Arawaks and is consort to the fallen elder
The gods are talking

gg.   Shango Says:June 27th , 2005 at 9:59 pm
DirtyHand can bring down all houses. DirtyHand is the key. His reach is long. He walks in all circles. consort to all, except for the gods. He knows the sacrifice is not responsible

hh.   Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:05 pm
The dice throwers know the maze of the rave and the fly that entered the trap. DirtyHand is the key. He walks in many circles.

ii.   Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:09 pm
Young Babylonians and Shivas do not build sand castles. DirtyHand knows this. Children of the Elders play in the maze, but DirtyHand is afraid to rave

jj.   Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:49 pm
The maze offers many hidden desires deflowerings of forbidden fruits. DirtyHand knows. So does the elder. The lamb is a scapegoat.

kk.   Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:52 pm
DirtyHand has walked through the maze. He knows of the forbidden fruit and the gardeners.

ll.   Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:18 pm
DirtyHand does not play with the lions. but he has entered the maze. the lamb is a scapegoat. DirtyHand knows. So does the Elder.

mm.   Shango Says:June 27th, 2005 at 11:26 pm
The Arawaks will not enter the maze unless the cowboys refuse the peace pipe. Follow the music, the lions are not tame. DirtyHand knows, so does the elder.

nn.   Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:43 pm
Mary rolled into the maze to play with lions but it was not a game. the lamb ran bleating afraid to walk through the maze. why don’t the arawaks ambush the lions? The cowboys don’t know.
DirtyHand knows, but is afraid of the Arawak Nation. The gods are talking

oo.   Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 12:39 am
The threadsurfers are opening the door to Babylon. be careful of the lions. DirtyHand does not have them tamed but he can enter the den. tell the cowboys.

pp.   Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 2:59 am
The Simian Doppleganger is upset because the arawak nation is hiding the truth from the cowboys. DirtyHand knows. Simian knows. The Simian stated for 2 days, the key would come from the hague the next day. Shango said no two times. Is Simian a DirtyHand too. Has the Simian played with the lions in the houses of ill-repute and poison notes where the innocent flies are lured? Has the Simian, primate that he is, fed with the other animals? Back ye fetid mongrel, as the 46th are you; delegate of the 7th level of inferno, not birthed, but spewed from the dark chasm of a nightmare!

qq.   Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:13 pm
1. Lucy spoke at 10:56 # Lucy Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:56 pm
Someone said last night that Dirty Hand was somebody in the police.


Not to sound snooty here, but I have seen this version before.  I bet it was your work then too. You would have to be a Codetalker to be able to jump right in like this.  I am glad you are here. Where have you been? LOL I do however have a few things I don't agree with, but overall goes with what I know to be reasonably accurate.  I wrote my answers in blue.  Thanks for the discussion...it's been a while in here that we took it piece by piece.  Now, have you read Caps interpretation?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on June 23, 2008, 04:28:01 PM
Lala'sMom,

I compiled the original 122 page word document 'Categorized Codetalkers' - It was from that word doc I cut and pasted DirtyHand. If you want a copy of that word doc IM me w/your email address (can we do that on this board??).
I put that together for the Holloways a while back.
 
I like your input (in blue). It all makes for a great discussion. I know you took it apart cuz I've been reading all about it on this thread! And no, I don't think I saw CapsLW's interpretation. Got a link?

The 'Dan in Tx' version that unfortunately Dave H. quoted in his book always bothered me and it's nice to see others thinking outside of the box.

So Freddy is the 5th suspect. But wasn't the 5th supposed to be the b'friend from earlier in the week?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on June 23, 2008, 04:34:20 PM
Lala'sMom -

regarding this :

n.   Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 8:04 pm
The young Lamb der Sloot shall be the sacrifice for the Arawaks and the cowboys. All will sit around the fire and feast on scapegoat. The gods are talking. DirtyHand is alive and well. [SO WHO IS THIS DIRTYHAND WHO WAS TO BE PRESUMED SICK AND THEN DEAD, BUT IS ALIVE AND WELL?]  Who said they thought Dirty Hand was sick?  I never have seen that in the posts in context.  I must have missed it.

I felt that when Shango wrote "DirtyHand is alive and well." it meant that Dirtyhand is not sick and then presumed to be dead, but is well (not sick) and quite alive (not dead). Like F. Castro - we were told he was sick and then dying on the news... maybe someone in the news like that, but is very much well, very much alive and hiding out (some Lions don't leave their den).
 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on June 23, 2008, 04:46:56 PM
Lala'sMom -

regarding this :

n.   Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 8:04 pm
The young Lamb der Sloot shall be the sacrifice for the Arawaks and the cowboys. All will sit around the fire and feast on scapegoat. The gods are talking. DirtyHand is alive and well. [SO WHO IS THIS DIRTYHAND WHO WAS TO BE PRESUMED SICK AND THEN DEAD, BUT IS ALIVE AND WELL?]  Who said they thought Dirty Hand was sick?  I never have seen that in the posts in context.  I must have missed it.

I felt that when Shango wrote "DirtyHand is alive and well." it meant that Dirtyhand is not sick and then presumed to be dead, but is well (not sick) and quite alive (not dead). Like F. Castro - we were told he was sick and then dying on the news... maybe someone in the news like that, but is very much well, very much alive and hiding out (some Lions don't leave their den).
 


Here's some DH info I cannot take credit for that I want to add to this thread. I was on a private site a while ago when this was posted. It goes to show you we can play with these word puzzles until we are blue in the face!


DirtyHand = Bin Laden - as in Honey LADEN notes.
The Gods of the cowboys (white house) know a game was played
Bin L. smuggling arms into Aruba for Colombia  (all the Gamblers were up in ARMS)...
Hidden in Plainview (shipped out in Aloe product containers-Posnr owns Plainview Aloe, right?)
What is the real export of the island? ARMS. Gamblers are up in ARMS.
DirtyHand cannot be known, must remain hidden. Cripes who would vacation on Aruba!
Condi Rice is now involved...the pic of her and Beth was meant to warn someone!
Babylonian Card knows cronies of DirtyHand Bin L.
Nobody invited DirtyHand to come to Aruba
.

Now somebody like Bin L. would make me flee off of Aruba!


 




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 23, 2008, 05:36:32 PM
Would someone please tell George Bush that we're looking in the wrong place?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Blonde on June 23, 2008, 05:54:06 PM
she spent her nights at their tables



Hi Colombo - at one point, CAPS threw out a suggestion to us.  He felt that Natalee was the wrong girl that night and that she was a substitute.  He thought that it was Virginia who owed money, but "the bird flew away".  Virginia left Aruba on her grandfather's private jet the day before.  Is this possible?

They do look alike SS

(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/MBrook/sy5jx0.jpg)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: hotping on June 23, 2008, 06:02:02 PM
she spent her nights at their tables



Hi Colombo - at one point, CAPS threw out a suggestion to us.  He felt that Natalee was the wrong girl that night and that she was a substitute.  He thought that it was Virginia who owed money, but "the bird flew away".  Virginia left Aruba on her grandfather's private jet the day before.  Is this possible?

They do look alike SS

(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/MBrook/sy5jx0.jpg)
SS..I believe its very possible....Blonde Thanks for posting the Pic...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 23, 2008, 06:08:08 PM
d.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:55 pm
If cowboys see dirty hand, many teepees fall. House of Babylon falls. we must have a sacrifice to feed the cowboys. they go back to the fort with no loot.
(IF COWBOYS SEE DIRTY HAND, NOTE, NOT IF THEY 'HEAR DIRTY HAND'... ) SO WHO IS THIS BEING HELD? Are you saying that this person being held is a dirty hand?  I have often thought that and I think Colombo thinks that as well.



I did a cut and paste so I wouldn't have to bring the entire post over to this page.  Poochy, if Dirty Hand was being held, does this mean that he could also be the 5th suspect?  Is this someone other than Freddy or Lorenzo?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 23, 2008, 06:14:43 PM
she spent her nights at their tables



Hi Colombo - at one point, CAPS threw out a suggestion to us.  He felt that Natalee was the wrong girl that night and that she was a substitute.  He thought that it was Virginia who owed money, but "the bird flew away".  Virginia left Aruba on her grandfather's private jet the day before.  Is this possible?

They do look alike SS

(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/MBrook/sy5jx0.jpg)
SS..I believe its very possible....Blonde Thanks for posting the Pic...



Wow, they really do look alike.  I wonder if Urine was sent to get Virginia, not knowing that she had already left, and then took Natalee because he knew that the event was planned and the participants were waiting for the girl.  If I recall, CAPS also mentioned something about two parties and two girls, but he never explained anything further.  Have any of the other MB girls ever mentioned anything about going to a party?  Poochy, did the girls from Boston go to a party or did any of them have problems with the locals?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on June 23, 2008, 06:52:54 PM
d.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:55 pm
If cowboys see dirty hand, many teepees fall. House of Babylon falls. we must have a sacrifice to feed the cowboys. they go back to the fort with no loot.
(IF COWBOYS SEE DIRTY HAND, NOTE, NOT IF THEY 'HEAR DIRTY HAND'... ) SO WHO IS THIS BEING HELD? Are you saying that this person being held is a dirty hand?  I have often thought that and I think Colombo thinks that as well.


I did a cut and paste so I wouldn't have to bring the entire post over to this page.  Poochy, if Dirty Hand was being held, does this mean that he could also be the 5th suspect?  Is this someone other than Freddy or Lorenzo?

SS - I'm not sure if was DirtyHand who was being held, or if it was the 'Babylonian card' who can identify DirtyHand who was being held. 

Then I read somewhere that someone from MB flew down a few days earlier than the MB kids, and then left two days later. Said it was in the Aruba papers, but I never read it here in the states.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on June 23, 2008, 06:57:02 PM
she spent her nights at their tables



Hi Colombo - at one point, CAPS threw out a suggestion to us.  He felt that Natalee was the wrong girl that night and that she was a substitute.  He thought that it was Virginia who owed money, but "the bird flew away".  Virginia left Aruba on her grandfather's private jet the day before.  Is this possible?

They do look alike SS

(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/MBrook/sy5jx0.jpg)
SS..I believe its very possible....Blonde Thanks for posting the Pic...



Wow, they really do look alike.  I wonder if Urine was sent to get Virginia, not knowing that she had already left, and then took Natalee because he knew that the event was planned and the participants were waiting for the girl.  If I recall, CAPS also mentioned something about two parties and two girls, but he never explained anything further.  Have any of the other MB girls ever mentioned anything about going to a party?  Poochy, did the girls from Boston go to a party or did any of them have problems with the locals?

I have no idea about the Boston girls. I don't have contacts like most of you here that post - I just recall what I've read that there were a group of Boston H.S. kids celebrating their freedom in the 'hotel next door from the H.I." whatever hotel that may be. And that Natalee and MB friends went to that hotel because the music was better.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 23, 2008, 07:04:38 PM
Poochy
Email me cindoal@yahoo.com

Don't worry everybody and Shango has that email...I am known by it. LOL


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 23, 2008, 07:07:08 PM
Supposedly there was an MB student named Haleigh (sp?) who's parents owned a condo on Aruba.  She and her mother remained there and helped search for Natalee.  Supposedly, Haleigh knew some of the locals from her previous times on the island.  I think that some of us saw this as a possible connection to Lorenzo.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Observer on June 23, 2008, 07:09:59 PM
Supposedly there was an MB student named Haleigh (sp?) who's parents owned a condo on Aruba.  She and her mother remained there and helped search for Natalee.  Supposedly, Haleigh knew some of the locals from her previous times on the island.  I think that some of us saw this as a possible connection to Lorenzo.
Here ya go...Notice who's photobucket this is  ::MonkeyRoll::

http://tinyurl.com/677fw9


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Blonde on June 23, 2008, 07:15:13 PM
Supposedly there was an MB student named Haleigh (sp?) who's parents owned a condo on Aruba.  She and her mother remained there and helped search for Natalee.  Supposedly, Haleigh knew some of the locals from her previous times on the island.  I think that some of us saw this as a possible connection to Lorenzo.

 <Snip>SCARBOROUGH

Also going to be talking to Marjanne Havelaar.  She is the editor of the largest Dutch newspaper.  I am going to talk about—to her—about the family of this Dutch judge‘s son who has been arrested and, obviously, from what we‘re hearing tonight, was intimate with Natalee.  We are also going to be talking Haleigh Uncapher.  She is a friend of Natalee‘s who was with her the night she disappeared and is now helping in the search.

All that, plus the Jackson case, Tom Cruise, Scientology.

A lot ahead.  SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY is just getting started.  Stick around.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCARBOROUGH:  We‘re going to be right back.

And when we return, we are going to be talking to people on the island of Aruba, also going to be talking to a friend of Natalee‘s who was with her the night that she disappeared and searching for her.

And, also, we are going to go out to California and get the very latest in the Michael Jackson case.  The circus act continues, except Michael Jackson may be going to jail soon.  That is what a lot of experts are claiming.  We‘ll talk to our experts out in L.A., when SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY returns.

But, first, here is the latest news that you and your family need to know.

(NEWS BREAK)

SCARBOROUGH:  With the arrest of three more suspects and also the search for Natalee Holloway entering the 11th day and counting, the question remains, what could have happened to this beautiful, intelligent, attractive young girl from Mountain Brook, Alabama?

With me now to talk about it is Marjanne Havelaar.  She is the editor of “The Amigoe,” which is, from what I understand, Marjanne, the largest Dutch-language newspaper on the island.

Thank you for being with us tonight.

Your island is such a safe island.  I know this has to be a shock to everybody down there.  How often do you have tourists from America or any other country end up missing like this?

MARJANNE HAVELAAR, EDITOR, “THE AMIGOE”:  As far as I can remember, it never happens.  I work as an editor for five years now on this island.  I live here for 15 years.  And something like this, it‘s really the first time.

SCARBOROUGH:  It just doesn‘t happen.

Now, let me ask you something.  You know the family of the Dutch teen.  Obviously, they‘re a very well respected family there.  What can you tell us about them tonight?

HAVELAAR:  Yes.  You‘re right.  It‘s a very respected family.  As we know, the father is a local judge.  The mother is a teacher.  I mean, they have three kids.  They‘ve never been in trouble.  It‘s a normal, decent family, nothing extraordinary about them.  So, this came really as a shock that their son was named as one of the suspects.

SCARBOROUGH:  Yes.  I‘m sure a lot of people are shocked by that.

Let me ask you something.  Last night, we had an FBI profiler come on this show.  And they said, you know, one of the things that happens, not only in Aruba, but happens—I mean, it happens in Miami.  It happens all across America, all across the world, is, sometimes, you have date rape drugs that are slipped into drinks.  It happens on college campuses.  A lot of speculation that that may have happened in this case.

Has that ever happened in Aruba before?  Have police or newspapers ever felt the need to issue warnings to tourists because this happens?

HAVELAAR:  Yes.  It‘s something that happens on Aruba.  It happened a few times last—over the last few years.

And, sometimes, in our paper, we issue a warning, not only for the tourists, but also for the local teens.  Once in a while, we hear information about this kind of thing.  .

SCARBOROUGH:  All right, thank you for being with us, Marjanne.  Obviously, we are all going to continue to focus on this story, just like you are.  We greatly appreciate you being with us tonight.

Let‘s go back now to Tom Parker.  He‘s a former FBI agent.

Tom, you know, a lot of people are talking about possibly Natalee being killed, murdered on the island.  They‘re searching for her.  But there is a possibility, because of Aruba‘s geographic location, that she could have possibly been taken off the island.  Talk about that.

PARKER:  Well, obviously, anything is possible as to where she has ended up as a result of this situation.

And it really comes back to, what was the motivation of whoever took her?  If there was a need to conceal her or to get her removed from any opportunity of somebody finding her, then to take her to another remote island would be very, very logical.  This is why a very important part of this investigation, which I can assure you is under way, they will be dissecting from A to Z all of the activities, the background, where they‘ve been, what they‘ve been doing this past weekend as it relates to these five suspects that are now in custody.

(CROSSTALK)

SCARBOROUGH:  I‘m sorry.  I was just going to say, let‘s put that map back up for—that shows how close Aruba is to Venezuela.

You had the attorney general coming out earlier today talking about—and there‘s the map—talking about how this search has expanded beyond their borders.  Does the FBI—I mean, have you heard of cases before where somebody got kidnapped from an island and taken to the mainland?  And, of course, the speculation is—and it‘s all speculation—that could have been sold into prostitution or slavery.  Does that ever happen?

PARKER:  Absolutely.  It‘s happening all over the world.

And, certainly, that‘s one of the possibilities that the investigators down there are looking at.  And it‘s also logical to start looking beyond Aruba, when we are 10 and 11 days into this and no trace of her has been found, at least as far as we know.  You do start expanding your search.  So, I‘m presuming that it was a natural forward movement for them to expand the search.  But I‘m also guessing that they have developed some information which would indicate that this other island, this remote island, is perhaps somehow involved in this.

SCARBOROUGH:  All right, Tom, thanks a lot for being with us.  We greatly appreciate it.

PARKER:  My pleasure.

SCARBOROUGH:  And, obviously, I‘ll tell you what.  A lot of people In Mountain Brook, Alabama, very concerned about what‘s going on tonight, concerned about the fact that Natalee, obviously worst-case scenario, that she is on the island and something terrible happened to her there, but also that she may have been taken off the island.  And, again, this investigation now has expanded beyond Aruba.

Now let‘s bring in Haleigh Uncapher.  Haleigh is a friend that was with Natalee the night that she disappeared.  And, also, she continues with the valiant search for her friend from Mountain Brook, Alabama.

Haleigh, thanks a lot for being with us tonight.

HALEIGH UNCAPHER, FRIEND OF NATALEE HOLLOWAY:  Thank you.

SCARBOROUGH:  Talk about the emotions of today, now in the 11th day.  Are people starting to think that this story just may not have a happy ending?

UNCAPHER:  I think people are still hopeful.  And they‘re trying not to focus on whether it is going to be a happy ending or not.  I think we‘re really just trying to find Natalee and get some closure to this case.

SCARBOROUGH:  You know, today, we got a lot of information on the Dutch man.  You spoke last night—Well, I say man.  He‘s 17 years old, the 17-year-old son, a judge‘s son who is a Dutch guy.

You talked about the fact that they met the night before she disappeared.  But we‘re hearing now that they met in the casino.  Can you set the stage for those of us in the United States that want to know what the hotel was like where you were staying?  There was a casino nearby.  There were bars nearby.  Talk about the casino where they met.
UNCAPHER:  OK.

Well, the casino and lobby and all that is kind of separate from the sleeping quarters or whatever.  But you have to walk from where your room is, across the way, and then there is a bar on your right.  And then, as you keep walking straight, it comes right into the hotel, the main hotel, where the lobby is and the casino and everything is just right there.  And so, the main hotel kind of...

SCARBOROUGH:  Yes.  And...

UNCAPHER:  Go ahead.

SCARBOROUGH:  Keep going.

UNCAPHER:  Oh, I was just going to say, the hotel surrounds the pool and the bar, kind of.

SCARBOROUGH:  OK.  We‘re hearing also obviously that what Natalee did, meeting this young Dutch man, was not out of the ordinary, that, actually, you had a lot of locals coming into the casino, a lot of locals coming into these bars trying to pick up tourists, which, of course, happens in the Caribbean and also in other vacation resorts.  Is that correct?

UNCAPHER:  Well, yes.

I mean, locals are everywhere you go, because they‘re just like you, trying to enjoy themselves as—just as much so.  They were—you know, were pretty much wherever we were, not necessarily only where we were.  But everywhere we went, you know, were locals.

SCARBOROUGH:  Yes.

Now, Natalee—we‘re hearing from these reports that Natalee was intimate with this young man.  Had Natalee talked to you, had she talked to anybody else from Mountain Brook High School that was down there with her on this senior trip about this young man that she had obviously met the night before?

UNCAPHER:  She had never talked to me about it.  I have not talked to any of her friends.  And from what I know of, they didn‘t know.  They only knew him from Sunday night when—at Carlos ‘n Charlie‘s.

SCARBOROUGH:  Oh, OK.  So, they don‘t know the backstory to it, how—what we‘re hearing today, again, from the statements that were released.

Talk about the search today.  It looks like you‘ve been out in the sun for the better part of the day looking for Natalee.  It‘s been 11 days now.  This island, as we said last night, is no bigger than Topeka, Kansas.

There are 700 people that have been out searching.  The FBI is out there.  There are divers out there.  There are search dogs out there, still no—searching for Natalee.

Where did you all go today?  What—what‘s left to search on the island of Aruba?

UNCAPHER:  Well, normally, they‘ve been searching from the lighthouse to the Alta Vista, which is a church which they think that Natalee may be.  And then this area, there is just a lot of brush and just a lot of ground to cover and also little homes that we may think that, you know, people don‘t have cable or—we can‘t imagine people not knowing about this, but we are just trying to go out there just to see if, you know, people haven‘t heard about it.

SCARBOROUGH:  Can you talk about talk about your friends, fellow people from Mountain Brook?  What are their thoughts tonight?

UNCAPHER:  I just think we‘re all just really worried now.

You know, it‘s our 11th day.  And we‘re all just anxious to find out more news.  And, yes, that‘s about—just really worried.

SCARBOROUGH:  All right, Haleigh.  All right, Haleigh, thanks a lot.

We appreciate you being with us tonight.

UNCAPHER:  Thank you.

SCARBOROUGH:  Again, good luck on the search.  Our thoughts and prayers are with you and Natalee‘s friends and, obviously, everybody that‘s searching for this young 18-year-old woman.



http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8170905


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 23, 2008, 07:38:58 PM
Thanks Blonde, she's the one.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on June 23, 2008, 07:41:18 PM
Thanks Blonde!

Here's something from Harry Tho. I hate to bring the twins into this mix, but all roads lead back to gambling. (Was it rumor or fact that the twins lawyered up on the plane ride home?)

http://www.hyscience.com/archives/2005/10/post.php

"...In my opinion, there was a concern about the Twitty brothers (early on). One blog reported that a scuffle erupted between Joran and one of the Twitty brothers at C&C when Natalee left the brothers' company to dance with Joran. There was even a report of a punch being thrown by one of the brothers. The brothers were close friends with Natalee's former boyfriend who spent the prior afternoon on the beach with Natalee ... some guy named Sean McVae (sp?)..."



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on June 23, 2008, 07:59:08 PM
While googling about the boyfriend who was said to have arrived 2 days early and changed his flight for 2 days after all the MBers left Aruba, I found this post - Never saw it before - thought I'd share because this says Natalee called her b'friend IN ALABAMA at 4am... and I thought there was someone on the island who arrived on different flights than the group...

I OMITTED some of the post out of respect for Nat's family...

http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2007/12/natalee-hollowa.html

listen folks, i studied this case from the inside out! a whole year documenting and emailing everyone involved and the world. every single day i recorded the ...(omitted).

first of all joran v/d sloot is 'innocent'! why? because there is PROOF that natalee called her boyfriend in ALABAMA around 4 in the morning from aruba. (way after joran left her on the beach!) he was asleep so his answering machine recorded her saying that she did not want to return home, that she was depressed about having to return! and she kept rambling on and clearly a little out of it, also there was loud music in the back ground! this was told to me by the mother of joran, and that is why they had to realease him!! it took so long because the fbi had confiscated the tape and had it analized!

that call was made from the 'rented' phone she from digicell a local phone company! when they traced the call it resulted to the answering machine of her boyfriend! now.. how did the phone result back in her room the same morning, for her room mates to hand over to the chapparone that stayed back to see about her whereabouts??? rarara?? could that be perhaps before or after she took her room key at the front desk??? well accompanied??

moreover, peter de vries told in an interview on a local station in aruba that his investigative team has 'a seccion of surveillance tape' from the holiday inn, where natalee is clearly seen in the lobby at the front desk, where she went to pick-up her room key! she was accompanied by a man but the tape does not give a clear view of that man! also hours after joran left her on the beach! so peter de vries is a lier and a manipulator too!
'cause if you have proof, and you declare the truth on the air, and afterwards FOR THE LOVE OF MONEY OR VENGENCE, you turn around and betray a whole community...then your just the same old bastard as (OMITTED).
furthermore, the first day 24 hours she was on the island, she sent a signal to natalee that i'm here #@#@#??? we have to talk!!??
well she came like the angel of darkness convinced her daughter was DEAD, and now..we have to talk??

stay tuned aaalllllot more to come! i have details even the procecutors are afraid to release!!!
indira martin


Posted by: INDIRA MARTIN | Friday, February 08, 2008 at 11:44 PM



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 23, 2008, 08:11:50 PM
I was reading on one of the other blogs, and I came across a list of Urine's friends and their pictures.  There was a picture of a kid named Alexsander Ziewinger.  I am not familiar with this kid as one of Urine's friends, but the name Alexsander and the last name starting with a Z sure jumped out at me.  Does anyone know anything about this kid?  The picture didn't look like Freddy, but I wonder if his name has been merged with Freddy's name.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: WhiskeyGirl on June 23, 2008, 08:22:23 PM
From all these things, I wonder if Ben Vocking could be tied to "Dirty Hand"? 

He seems to be a part of this case, and rarely seen.  What were his movements in June? 

Is he related to any suspect or witnesses? 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on June 23, 2008, 08:29:02 PM
From all these things, I wonder if Ben Vocking could be tied to "Dirty Hand"? 

He seems to be a part of this case, and rarely seen.  What were his movements in June? 

Is he related to any suspect or witnesses? 

Yeah, he changed his name to Ben King.  Is he an Arawak or an Arawak King? Why would he change his name at his age? Did he think the pronounciation of his last name sounded like one of George Carlin's 7 words you can't say on the air? (May God rest George's Carlin's soul).


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 23, 2008, 08:29:26 PM
From all these things, I wonder if Ben Vocking could be tied to "Dirty Hand"? 

He seems to be a part of this case, and rarely seen.  What were his movements in June? 

Is he related to any suspect or witnesses? 



We talked about him a while back.  He's tight with Paulass and I think he goes by the name Ben King now.  We also talked about a Judge named Dueterkom (sp?) who never has his picture taken.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 23, 2008, 08:36:41 PM
If I recall, there was a lot of confusion about what Ben King looks like.  There was a picture of Ben King leaving, I think, the police station and a picture of a Ben King who is a minister.  Mum and/or LaLa's have the correct picture.  I don't know if we ever found a picture of Judge Deuterkom or how ever it's spelled.  I think this guy was an Enoz Regnad.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: klaasend on June 23, 2008, 09:01:40 PM
While googling about the boyfriend who was said to have arrived 2 days early and changed his flight for 2 days after all the MBers left Aruba, I found this post - Never saw it before - thought I'd share because this says Natalee called her b'friend IN ALABAMA at 4am... and I thought there was someone on the island who arrived on different flights than the group...

I OMITTED some of the post out of respect for Nat's family...

http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2007/12/natalee-hollowa.html

listen folks, i studied this case from the inside out! a whole year documenting and emailing everyone involved and the world. every single day i recorded the ...(omitted).

first of all joran v/d sloot is 'innocent'! why? because there is PROOF that natalee called her boyfriend in ALABAMA around 4 in the morning from aruba. (way after joran left her on the beach!) he was asleep so his answering machine recorded her saying that she did not want to return home, that she was depressed about having to return! and she kept rambling on and clearly a little out of it, also there was loud music in the back ground! this was told to me by the mother of joran, and that is why they had to realease him!! it took so long because the fbi had confiscated the tape and had it analized!

that call was made from the 'rented' phone she from digicell a local phone company! when they traced the call it resulted to the answering machine of her boyfriend! now.. how did the phone result back in her room the same morning, for her room mates to hand over to the chapparone that stayed back to see about her whereabouts??? rarara?? could that be perhaps before or after she took her room key at the front desk??? well accompanied??

moreover, peter de vries told in an interview on a local station in aruba that his investigative team has 'a seccion of surveillance tape' from the holiday inn, where natalee is clearly seen in the lobby at the front desk, where she went to pick-up her room key! she was accompanied by a man but the tape does not give a clear view of that man! also hours after joran left her on the beach! so peter de vries is a lier and a manipulator too!
'cause if you have proof, and you declare the truth on the air, and afterwards FOR THE LOVE OF MONEY OR VENGENCE, you turn around and betray a whole community...then your just the same old bastard as (OMITTED).
furthermore, the first day 24 hours she was on the island, she sent a signal to natalee that i'm here #@#@#??? we have to talk!!??
well she came like the angel of darkness convinced her daughter was DEAD, and now..we have to talk??

stay tuned aaalllllot more to come! i have details even the procecutors are afraid to release!!!
indira martin


Posted by: INDIRA MARTIN | Friday, February 08, 2008 at 11:44 PM



This is pure Renee Gielen BS, nothing more and exactly what those people want is happening.  They post it on one message board and it gets posted elsewhere until before you know it people believe it.

THIS IS BS


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 23, 2008, 09:08:11 PM
I was reading on one of the other blogs, and I came across a list of Urine's friends and their pictures.  There was a picture of a kid named Alexsander Ziewinger.  I am not familiar with this kid as one of Urine's friends, but the name Alexsander and the last name starting with a Z sure jumped out at me.  Does anyone know anything about this kid?  The picture didn't look like Freddy, but I wonder if his name has been merged with Freddy's name.


SS…I spent a morning checking him out a while back and came up empty!

ZIEVINGER, Alexsander…from Chicago outfit photobucket

Duke Duke 7-17 male en Geiledaphne Geiledaphne female sebastian ...
... freddy freddy papi male Glembert Glembert Alexander male sexy sexy sexy ..... male Alexsander G Alexsander G Zievinger male Angeloh Angeloh Moneytalks ...api.hi5.com/rest/profile/foaf/874358 - 407k - Cached -

Vocking - the right pic is in the Aruban Who's Who, I think...LOL


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 23, 2008, 09:55:03 PM
Alexsander Ziewinger is on the top left


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 23, 2008, 10:02:20 PM
This is the source for the pictures.
http://arubadirtypolice.blogspot.com/2006_08_01_archive.html

I also noticed that the name is written as Freddy Zedan Arambatzis instead of Arambatzis Zedan.

Who is Alexsander Ziewinger?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: klaasend on June 23, 2008, 10:12:18 PM
Alexsander Ziewinger is on the top left

Those photos are of Joran's character witnesses from the NY civil case:

ZIEVINGER, Alexsander – character witness as listed on pg 33 Tacopina’s filing in NY civil suit.
(http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h291/SunFreak2/CharacterWitness-AlexanderZievin-1.jpg)

So he's one of Joran's friends - either school or tennis would be my guess.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 23, 2008, 10:29:13 PM
Alexsander Ziewinger is on the top left

Boy!  That's a great group to use as character witnesses. Several of them have been suspects...really good to have them on your side.  :roll:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: always 1 on June 23, 2008, 11:05:42 PM
she spent her nights at their tables



Hi Colombo - at one point, CAPS threw out a suggestion to us.  He felt that Natalee was the wrong girl that night and that she was a substitute.  He thought that it was Virginia who owed money, but "the bird flew away".  Virginia left Aruba on her grandfather's private jet the day before.  Is this possible?

They do look alike SS

(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/MBrook/sy5jx0.jpg)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: always 1 on June 23, 2008, 11:08:01 PM
Oops, I did that wrong, are these part of the girls that were with Natalee???? Gosh, Frannie looks just like me.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 23, 2008, 11:10:02 PM
Alexsander Ziewinger is on the top left

Boy!  That's a great group to use as character witnesses. Several of them have been suspects...really good to have them on your side.  :roll:



LaLa's, I think I found Regnad.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: texasmom on June 23, 2008, 11:33:36 PM
Supposedly there was an MB student named Haleigh (sp?) who's parents owned a condo on Aruba.  She and her mother remained there and helped search for Natalee.  Supposedly, Haleigh knew some of the locals from her previous times on the island.  I think that some of us saw this as a possible connection to Lorenzo.
Here ya go...Notice who's photobucket this is  ::MonkeyRoll::

http://tinyurl.com/677fw9
Haleigh from facebook:
(http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn82/texasmom_55/QMPD97235/zhaleighuncapherfacebook.jpg)
Her older sister Kathryn (from facebook) who was also in Aruba from my understanding...
(http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn82/texasmom_55/QMPD97235/zkathrynuncapherfacebook.jpg)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on June 23, 2008, 11:37:42 PM
Supposedly there was an MB student named Haleigh (sp?) who's parents owned a condo on Aruba.  She and her mother remained there and helped search for Natalee.  Supposedly, Haleigh knew some of the locals from her previous times on the island.  I think that some of us saw this as a possible connection to Lorenzo.
Here ya go...Notice who's photobucket this is  ::MonkeyRoll::

http://tinyurl.com/677fw9
Haleigh from facebook:
(http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn82/texasmom_55/QMPD97235/zhaleighuncapherfacebook.jpg)
Her older sister Kathryn (from facebook) who was also in Aruba from my understanding...
(http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn82/texasmom_55/QMPD97235/zkathrynuncapherfacebook.jpg)

To me, the group picture has Kathryn & Haleigh marked in reverse...maybe it's just me...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on June 23, 2008, 11:41:07 PM
OOPS....confusing Lee with Katherine and Haleigh with Virginia....will have to take a break. ::MonkeyConfused::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: texasmom on June 23, 2008, 11:51:24 PM
OOPS....confusing Lee with Katherine and Haleigh with Virginia....will have to take a break. ::MonkeyConfused::

I don't think either of the Uncapher sister's are in the group picture.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 24, 2008, 05:47:40 AM
This is the source for the pictures.
http://arubadirtypolice.blogspot.com/2006_08_01_archive.html

I also noticed that the name is written as Freddy Zedan Arambatzis instead of Arambatzis Zedan.

Who is Alexsander Ziewinger?


SS...I spent a morning trying to track him a while back, went through multiple pics trying to find him, and the only thing I came up with was the hi5 site I posted on the previous page.

Then I changed letters in the name...an l instead of the w, and still nothing! There is a list to do with the character witnesses and spelling corrections, and I don't recall his name being on it. I believe it is in the documents on Jonathon's site.

Lala's...re my internet provider...yesterday they did not provide any internet, or very little....today they are not providing any email ...thought I out-smarted them and copied many things in case they disappeared never to be seen again, or were in limbo for weeks, well I forgot to copy my address book!

Did I miss were MJ's girlfriend from Boston was a blonde?....pretty sure from what I have read she is not dumb!

Back to working on Ernesto and his family? Will try and get it done this morning...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 24, 2008, 06:07:46 AM
On the Mansur family….I have two areas of interest that I have started to follow…The Miami jet-set, Damilice and her known connection to Miguel Jr and Austin Mansur. Both these guys live the good life. Porsches, cigarette boats, parties etc. Pretty sure they would know the Miami nightlife as well…maybe Tommy Pooch, Alan Roth, Ernesto?  Now where did those discussions lead?  Both Tommy Pooch and Ernesto in Aruba in May 2005? The last addresses I have seen for Ernesto and Damilice their apartment buildings appear to be next door to each other…

The other is the parents’ of Austin and Miguel Jr and their families. This involves their companies, both in Chicago and Florida, and checking their business associates…

Have just scratched the surface on both of these…


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 24, 2008, 07:59:45 AM
Finngirl posted some posts the other day about the discussion when 'Freddy' was identified...started with Arends and moved onto, in a roundabout way, to Arambatzis and Zedan, with confirmation from Melody at RWV. The info came from US TV sources, (wonder who their info came from? IIRC there were not a lot of US press on the ground in Aruba at that time), and some dubious posters here at SM. Bondia applauded jossy and the Monkeys for nailing down the identity of 'Freddy'. SandraK posted about a cousin Lissette,sp, here in the States and an aunt Rebeca in Venezuela...still trying to track these down...LOL...Misinformation maybe?....Ernesto's ex-wife was Rebecca...of course no links were posted....

Do any of the veteran poster's remember the connection of Ernesto to 'Freddy'? When this may have been and which forum? I recall anna telling me to look at RWV for early misinformation by Scubajap on "Freddy'. I would love to read those posts! TIA

SS...Did you find Deutekom?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 24, 2008, 08:42:48 AM
Mum - I have both Facebook and MySpace accounts because in my business it's a good way to keep track of "things that are going on".  I can't tell you how many faces I have poured through trying to identify Freddy.  I have found absolutely nothing.  I have found nothing on Deutekom.  And, now this Alexsander kid is another puzzle.  He and Freddy must be real people or TacoJoe couldn't have used them as sources in the NY documents.  I found it interesting that Freddy's last name on that list was Arambatzis and Zedan preceeded it.  Didn't ALE list him as Arambatzis, also?  Maybe the name Zedan isn't real.  I have no idea where Martina would fit in here, but CAPS seemed pretty sure that this was the person who was arrested for the porn pictures.  I am wondering if Martina is an entirely different person.  We've also seemed to have lost Karen Martina.  I have also searched through the MySpace pages for her.

A new thought has come into my head - which can be dangerous.   ::MonkeyHaHa::  Yesterday, LaLa's and Poochy were discussing Dirty Hand and how they could not let him be seen, but one of the suspects (the 5th? Freddy?) could identify him.   Do we know for sure that Ernesto was on in the island in May of 2005?  Could Ernesto be Dirty Hand who could reveal the details of the porn video business that was going on between Aruba and Florida?  Could Ernesto be the one who could name the names and bring down the Babylonians if he had really big names?

I'm sorry about your Internet problems.  I get so frustrated when I have those problems.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 24, 2008, 08:52:48 AM
Another thought.  ::MonkeyHaHa::

A few months ago, we were talking about Deutekom and initially we had a picture of a man who we thought was Deutekom, but it wasn't him.  It was a fair haired guy in a sport coat with sunglasses.  The picture was black and white.  This person was identified as another judge, but one source said that he had died.  There was a discussion yesterday with Poochy and LaLa's about the section of Shango where they were debating whether Dirty Hand was still alive.  Shango said, "Dirty Hand is alive and well".  Could there be a connection?  Just a thought.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Rob on June 24, 2008, 08:54:57 AM
n.   Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 8:04 pm
The young Lamb der Sloot shall be the sacrifice for the Arawaks and the cowboys. All will sit around the fire and feast on scapegoat. The gods are talking. DirtyHand is alive and well. [SO WHO IS THIS DIRTYHAND WHO WAS TO BE PRESUMED SICK AND THEN DEAD, BUT IS ALIVE AND WELL?]

I noticed this one particular excerpt from Poochy (welcome by the way) and could only think of one thing. Dirty Hand faked his death. On Aruba this could be accomplished quite easily. We all know that autopsy are hardly reliable. Dirty Hand was considered dead before Natalee went to Aruba.

He was dead and discovered to be alive. Was arrested and the ALE / Prosecutor's office decided it was better he REMAINS DEAD. Shango tells us that this particular Dirty Hand is not dead. A heads up if you will.

There have been many Dirty Hands - this one bowed out before he was caught and possibly sent to jail. He never stopped doing what it is he does, but was not considered a suspect because others thought he had met his demise.

- jmo -


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Blonde on June 24, 2008, 09:01:29 AM
From all these things, I wonder if Ben Vocking could be tied to "Dirty Hand"? 

He seems to be a part of this case, and rarely seen.  What were his movements in June? 

Is he related to any suspect or witnesses? 



We talked about him a while back.  He's tight with Paulass and I think he goes by the name Ben King now.  We also talked about a Judge named Dueterkom (sp?) who never has his picture taken.

(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/Aruba%20Law%20E/KINGBenVocking.jpg)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 24, 2008, 09:03:34 AM
Mum - I have both Facebook and MySpace accounts because in my business it's a good way to keep track of "things that are going on".  I can't tell you how many faces I have poured through trying to identify Freddy.  I have found absolutely nothing.  I have found nothing on Deutekom.  And, now this Alexsander kid is another puzzle.  He and Freddy must be real people or TacoJoe couldn't have used them as sources in the NY documents.  I found it interesting that Freddy's last name on that list was Arambatzis and Zedan preceeded it.  Didn't ALE list him as Arambatzis, also?  Maybe the name Zedan isn't real.  I have no idea where Martina would fit in here, but CAPS seemed pretty sure that this was the person who was arrested for the porn pictures.  I am wondering if Martina is an entirely different person.  We've also seemed to have lost Karen Martina.  I have also searched through the MySpace pages for her.

A new thought has come into my head - which can be dangerous.   ::MonkeyHaHa::  Yesterday, LaLa's and Poochy were discussing Dirty Hand and how they could not let him be seen, but one of the suspects (the 5th? Freddy?) could identify him.   Do we know for sure that Ernesto was on in the island in May of 2005?  Could Ernesto be Dirty Hand who could reveal the details of the porn video business that was going on between Aruba and Florida?  Could Ernesto be the one who could name the names and bring down the Babylonians if he had really big names?

I'm sorry about your Internet problems.  I get so frustrated when I have those problems.

ALE listed him as Zedan and And Zedan-Arambatzis, as for Taco...none of those character witnesses were ever going to NY, so Freddy Zedan statements could have been written by anyone! I don't believe 'Freddy' is who he was supposed to be. How come no-one ever saw him in relation to the statements and his August arrest. All the family heard was a name...Maybe Freddy is a figment of the internet...

Ernesto was there for Sasha's birthday party, early May, I think was posted last week...if you can trust your eyes and the pics...Where was he until January 2008...moving around a lot, multiple 'addresses'. Maybe it was him or one of his Miami buddies that changed their travel plans, a day here and there....

Unless you can find Ernesto's father, I can't place him as DH. Depends on what company both he and his friend's keep in Miami, maybe?

Just a thought...maybe Alexsander is Alex and Sander!

TM...nice to see you back, know you have been busy, hope it was fun!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 24, 2008, 09:10:01 AM
n.   Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 8:04 pm
The young Lamb der Sloot shall be the sacrifice for the Arawaks and the cowboys. All will sit around the fire and feast on scapegoat. The gods are talking. DirtyHand is alive and well. [SO WHO IS THIS DIRTYHAND WHO WAS TO BE PRESUMED SICK AND THEN DEAD, BUT IS ALIVE AND WELL?]

I noticed this one particular excerpt from Poochy (welcome by the way) and could only think of one thing. Dirty Hand faked his death. On Aruba this could be accomplished quite easily. We all know that autopsy are hardly reliable. Dirty Hand was considered dead before Natalee went to Aruba.

He was dead and discovered to be alive. Was arrested and the ALE / Prosecutor's office decided it was better he REMAINS DEAD. Shango tells us that this particular Dirty Hand is not dead. A heads up if you will.

There have been many Dirty Hands - this one bowed out before he was caught and possibly sent to jail. He never stopped doing what it is he does, but was not considered a suspect because others thought he had met his demise.

- jmo -


Hi Rob...This reminds me of Judge Kuiperdal. I checked for an obit and couldn't find one.

Also at the Mementori,sp, site, I couldn't access in June or July 2005, anything on a Henrique that had died. Opened every other one on that page, but that one gave me a warning, like not authorized or something! Strange!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 24, 2008, 09:14:27 AM
From all these things, I wonder if Ben Vocking could be tied to "Dirty Hand"? 

He seems to be a part of this case, and rarely seen.  What were his movements in June? 

Is he related to any suspect or witnesses? 



We talked about him a while back.  He's tight with Paulass and I think he goes by the name Ben King now.  We also talked about a Judge named Dueterkom (sp?) who never has his picture taken.

(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/Aruba%20Law%20E/KINGBenVocking.jpg)


Thanks Blonde...I believe that ******* has corrected the Aruban Who's Who with this pic....I would hate to go back and reread both those discussions again to make sure we had the right guy! LOL


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 24, 2008, 09:36:51 AM
Ben King...again.  King fits the description that Shango gave of Dirty Hand walking with the fallen elder.  He is the only one besides Straten that was actually seen with Paulus.  I don't think Shango was as cryptic as some think...anyone that has read my posts already knows this...Shango was talking to people that knew who he was and some that didn't, but he was either misdirecting or giving information which is debatable. I think if Shango says he walked with the elder he means he was there with Paulus.  If Shango says he walks in all houses then he would be the person able to know everything that goes on in Aruba.  Yes, I believe Shango was cryptic to some degree, but I think everyone, myself included, tends to over analyze the details.  How can you tell a tale and no one understand what you mean and still get your point across to those reading?  Why make it so hard to understand that you are never recognized for what you have accomplished.  Shango had an ego...that is important.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Rob on June 24, 2008, 09:40:10 AM
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/Aruba%20Law%20E/KINGBenVocking.jpg)


Thanks Blonde...I believe that ******* has corrected the Aruban Who's Who with this pic....I would hate to go back and reread both those discussions again to make sure we had the right guy! LOL
[/quote]

Hi Mum, yes! this is the correct picture. That is my screen shot from the DeVries Crime show. That is Ben Voc / King.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 24, 2008, 09:49:48 AM
Ben King...again.  King fits the description that Shango gave of Dirty Hand walking with the fallen elder.  He is the only one besides Straten that was actually seen with Paulus.  I don't think Shango was as cryptic as some think...anyone that has read my posts already knows this...Shango was talking to people that knew who he was and some that didn't, but he was either misdirecting or giving information which is debatable. I think if Shango says he walked with the elder he means he was there with Paulus.  If Shango says he walks in all houses then he would be the person able to know everything that goes on in Aruba.  Yes, I believe Shango was cryptic to some degree, but I think everyone, myself included, tends to over analyze the details.  How can you tell a tale and no one understand what you mean and still get your point across to those reading?  Why make it so hard to understand that you are never recognized for what you have accomplished.  Shango had an ego...that is important.


Walks in all houses...courthouse, jailhouse, Sloot's house, I believe Caps mentioned whorehouses...only other one I can think of is The House of the Lord...and that would take us back to the other Ben Vocking...LOL


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on June 24, 2008, 09:50:48 AM
n.   Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 8:04 pm
The young Lamb der Sloot shall be the sacrifice for the Arawaks and the cowboys. All will sit around the fire and feast on scapegoat. The gods are talking. DirtyHand is alive and well. [SO WHO IS THIS DIRTYHAND WHO WAS TO BE PRESUMED SICK AND THEN DEAD, BUT IS ALIVE AND WELL?]

I noticed this one particular excerpt from Poochy (welcome by the way) and could only think of one thing. Dirty Hand faked his death. On Aruba this could be accomplished quite easily. We all know that autopsy are hardly reliable. Dirty Hand was considered dead before Natalee went to Aruba.

He was dead and discovered to be alive. Was arrested and the ALE / Prosecutor's office decided it was better he REMAINS DEAD. Shango tells us that this particular Dirty Hand is not dead. A heads up if you will.

There have been many Dirty Hands - this one bowed out before he was caught and possibly sent to jail. He never stopped doing what it is he does, but was not considered a suspect because others thought he had met his demise.

- jmo -

Rob, hey thanks for the welcome! Let me toss this one out...could the references of Babylon actually refer to the modern country that it is today? Since Aruba is a trampoline island for drugs, could it also be for arms to VZ, CO or MX (gamblers are up in arms)? FBI was crawling all over Aruba, so were Dutch F-16 fighter jets on July 3 and their infra-red cameras. But as we saw FBI has no jurisdiction in Aruba, per se. Arawaks (Aruba natives) afraid of DirtyHand. Babylonians afraid of DirtyHand...and DirtyHand returned to Babylon, broken, but annonymous.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 24, 2008, 09:53:42 AM
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/Aruba%20Law%20E/KINGBenVocking.jpg)


Thanks Blonde...I believe that ******* has corrected the Aruban Who's Who with this pic....I would hate to go back and reread both those discussions again to make sure we had the right guy! LOL

Hi Mum, yes! this is the correct picture. That is my screen shot from the DeVries Crime show. That is Ben Voc / King.
[/quote]


Thanks Rob...that was the one thing that made it the right one for me when we were discussing this a couple of months back...that De Vries must have named the right guy! I believe vms made that point, and most agreed.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Silverfox on June 24, 2008, 09:59:06 AM
Ben King...again.  King fits the description that Shango gave of Dirty Hand walking with the fallen elder.  He is the only one besides Straten that was actually seen with Paulus.  I don't think Shango was as cryptic as some think...anyone that has read my posts already knows this...Shango was talking to people that knew who he was and some that didn't, but he was either misdirecting or giving information which is debatable. I think if Shango says he walked with the elder he means he was there with Paulus.  If Shango says he walks in all houses then he would be the person able to know everything that goes on in Aruba.  Yes, I believe Shango was cryptic to some degree, but I think everyone, myself included, tends to over analyze the details.  How can you tell a tale and no one understand what you mean and still get your point across to those reading?  Why make it so hard to understand that you are never recognized for what you have accomplished.  Shango had an ego...that is important.

Why does everyone assume that the fallen elder is paulus ???-- He doesn't look very "fallen" to me -- lucrative law practice, money, privs, etc....

I have always felt that the fallen elder was Beticoe Croes -- the leader -- "fallen" in many clultures means "dead" -- "elder" in many cultures means "respected older one" ---

I have always felt that Shango was talking about someone who knew and possibly worked -- most certainly associated with "the elder" Beticoe Croes...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 24, 2008, 10:14:27 AM
Ben King...again.  King fits the description that Shango gave of Dirty Hand walking with the fallen elder.  He is the only one besides Straten that was actually seen with Paulus.  I don't think Shango was as cryptic as some think...anyone that has read my posts already knows this...Shango was talking to people that knew who he was and some that didn't, but he was either misdirecting or giving information which is debatable. I think if Shango says he walked with the elder he means he was there with Paulus.  If Shango says he walks in all houses then he would be the person able to know everything that goes on in Aruba.  Yes, I believe Shango was cryptic to some degree, but I think everyone, myself included, tends to over analyze the details.  How can you tell a tale and no one understand what you mean and still get your point across to those reading?  Why make it so hard to understand that you are never recognized for what you have accomplished.  Shango had an ego...that is important.

Why does everyone assume that the fallen elder is paulus ???-- He doesn't look very "fallen" to me -- lucrative law practice, money, privs, etc....

I have always felt that the fallen elder was Beticoe Croes -- the leader -- "fallen" in many clultures means "dead" -- "elder" in many cultures means "respected older one" ---

I have always felt that Shango was talking about someone who knew and possibly worked -- most certainly associated with "the elder" Beticoe Croes...

Hi Silverfox....we would have to go back a while for info on that...Do you have any thoughts on his so called accident. IIRC another car was seen leaving the scene. I have seen Hendrick's name associated with this...I think he is worse than Rudy....seems to stay under the radar, around here at least!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on June 24, 2008, 10:21:11 AM
n.   Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 8:04 pm
The young Lamb der Sloot shall be the sacrifice for the Arawaks and the cowboys. All will sit around the fire and feast on scapegoat. The gods are talking. DirtyHand is alive and well. [SO WHO IS THIS DIRTYHAND WHO WAS TO BE PRESUMED SICK AND THEN DEAD, BUT IS ALIVE AND WELL?]

I noticed this one particular excerpt from Poochy (welcome by the way) and could only think of one thing. Dirty Hand faked his death. On Aruba this could be accomplished quite easily. We all know that autopsy are hardly reliable. Dirty Hand was considered dead before Natalee went to Aruba.

He was dead and discovered to be alive. Was arrested and the ALE / Prosecutor's office decided it was better he REMAINS DEAD. Shango tells us that this particular Dirty Hand is not dead. A heads up if you will.

There have been many Dirty Hands - this one bowed out before he was caught and possibly sent to jail. He never stopped doing what it is he does, but was not considered a suspect because others thought he had met his demise.

- jmo -

Rob, hey thanks for the welcome! Let me toss this one out...could the references of Babylon actually refer to the modern country that it is today? Since Aruba is a trampoline island for drugs, could it also be for arms to VZ, CO or MX (gamblers are up in arms)? FBI was crawling all over Aruba, so were Dutch F-16 fighter jets on July 3 and their infra-red cameras. But as we saw FBI has no jurisdiction in Aruba, per se. Arawaks (Aruba natives) afraid of DirtyHand. Babylonians afraid of DirtyHand...and DirtyHand returned to Babylon, broken, but annonymous.


DirtyHand, IMHO, is someone ruthless, untouchable, and scares the heck out of everyone- someone who either writes Black Notes and/or is a practicing Muslim who's left hand is referred to as 'dirty hand'

This post was written in references to SHussain holding the Koran "...how can he hold such a Precious Holy Book in his dirty hand! and his left hand too! arggg ".   (ref found at http://www.shiachat.com/forum/lofiversion/index.php/t234915869.html )

There are many who think SHussain is still 'alive and well' because he had many imposters.  http://stargods.org/SaddamsImposter.htm  I for one don't know what to beleive anymore.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:58 pm
Arawaks want to make cowboys happy. Babylonians want to maintain integrity of Great House. Gods of the cowboys know there was a game in the great house, and so DirtyHand was discovered. But the sacrifice will be offered before dirty hand sings. He will return to babylon, broken but anonymous.
 



Hey - like I said earlier - just tossin' it out there for interesting discussion!


 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Silverfox on June 24, 2008, 10:22:26 AM
Mum, I remember reading clear back in '05 -- I think in in RWV, that the BC accident was really an assassination... but who knows?

But in this context if This is what Shango was telling us -- Dirty hand would be older, and perhaps under the radar, but someone who knew and worked with Beticoe, perhaps on the sovereignty issue -- high enough and respected enough to be instantly recognized as a respected public figure (maybe even retired) on the island -- but not necessarily of the the island.  perhaps someone with good research skills could run an association investigation into the associates of Beticoe when he was the "elder" and alive and see if any of the names match up with what we now know?

The reason I don't believe it was paulus was this was much too early (June 25) in the investigation to consider him "fallen" because of the arrest --- too premature for someone to consider him yet fallen, and, the evidence seems to reveal he is not "fallen" but perhaps even more powerful than before....

I believe that Dirty Hand, who ever he might be -- was either there at the scene or his son, or grandson -- or blood relative was there and this is enough for everyone to scamper around whimpering ...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Silverfox on June 24, 2008, 10:32:50 AM
Maybe this?

Quote
Hendrik Croes - a brother of the island's legendary leader, the late Betico Croes who guided Aruba to its semi-independent status in the Dutch realm - is one of the leading political figures on the island. He led several election campaigns for the MEP, now in the opposition. The Croes Family has been accused of ties with Cuntrera-Caruana. The Sicilian mafiosi payed for a trip of another brother, Rudy Croes (who succeeded Hendrik as Minister of Justice in a previous MEP government) as party secretary to a meeting of the Socialist International in Turkey. This has not been denied.

http://www.hyscience.com/archives/2005/10/harrytho_1017_e.php (http://www.hyscience.com/archives/2005/10/harrytho_1017_e.php)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on June 24, 2008, 10:36:17 AM
Shango Says:June 27th , 2005 at 9:51 pm
DirtyHand walks with the Babylons, the Arawaks and is consort to the fallen elder. The gods are talking.

Back to Royalty again:

CONSORT =

con·sort (knsôrt)
n.
1. A husband or wife, especially the spouse of a monarch.
2. A companion or partner.
3. A ship accompanying another in travel.
4. Partnership; association: governed in consort with her advisers.
5. A group; a company: a consort of fellow diplomats.
6. Music
a. An instrumental ensemble.
b. An ensemble using instruments of the same family.
v. (kn-sôrt) con·sort·ed, con·sort·ing, con·sorts
v.intr.
1. To keep company; associate: a politician known to consort with gangsters.
2. To be in accord or agreement.
v.tr.
1. To unite in company; associate.
2. Obsolete
a. To escort; accompany.
b. To espouse.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[Middle English, colleague, from Old French, from Latin cnsors, cnsort- : com-, com- + sors, fate; see ser-2 in Indo-European roots.]

The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition copyright ©2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Updated in 2003. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
consort
Verb
consort with to keep company with
Noun
1. a husband or wife of a reigning monarch
2. a small group of voices or instruments [Latin consors partner]
Collins Essential English Dictionary 2nd Edition 2006 © HarperCollins Publishers 2004, 2006
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Consort a number of people consorting together or in a company; a company or set of musicians; an assembly; a divan or consultation—Johnson, 1755.
Examples: consort of authors, 1654; of bird calls, 1711; of birds, 1712; of fiddlers, 1656; of knavery, 1598; of musical instruments; of musicians, 1616; of parasites, 1702; of plaudits, 1667; of praise, 1705; of ships [sailing together], 1591; of viols, 1883; of virgins, 1604.
Dictionary of Collective Nouns and Group Terms. Copyright 2008 The Gale Group, Inc. All rights reserved.
ThesaurusLegend:  Synonyms Related Words Antonyms
Noun 1. consort - the husband or wife of a reigning monarch
prince consort - a prince who is the husband of a reigning female sovereign
better half, married person, partner, spouse, mate - a person's partner in marriage
 2. consort - a family of similar musical instrument playing together choir
set - a group of things of the same kind that belong together and are so used; "a set of books"; "a set of golf clubs"; "a set of teeth"
Verb 1. consort - keep company with; hang out with; "He associates with strange people"; "She affiliates with her colleagues"
affiliate, assort, associate
interact - act together or towards others or with others; "He should interact more with his colleagues"
ally - become an ally or associate, as by a treaty or marriage; "He allied himself with the Communists"
go steady, date, go out, see - date regularly; have a steady relationship with; "Did you know that she is seeing an older man?"; "He is dating his former wife again!"
companion, company, keep company, accompany - be a companion to somebody
 2. consort - go together; "The colors don't harmonize"; "Their ideas concorded"
concord, fit in, harmonise, harmonize, accord, agree
correspond, gibe, jibe, match, tally, agree, fit, check - be compatible, similar or consistent; coincide in their characteristics; "The two stories don't agree in many details"; "The handwriting checks with the signature on the check"; "The suspect's fingerprints don't match those on the gun"
correspond, gibe, jibe, match, tally, agree, fit, check - be compatible, similar or consistent; coincide in their characteristics; "The two stories don't agree in many details"; "The handwriting checks with the signature on the check"; "The suspect's fingerprints don't match those on the gun"
blend in, blend, go - blend or harmonize; "This flavor will blend with those in your dish"; "This sofa won't go with the chairs"
 3. consort - keep company; "the heifers run with the bulls to produce offspring"
run
 








Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 24, 2008, 10:47:49 AM
Fine!  The fallen elder is not Paulus...Merian referred to him as the same...so I guess I am mistaken. To me, it is the only thing that fits at this point.  In context he was referenced as a failed judge, so when Shango said elder, at that point in time, which would be in June...Paulus was the person everyone was talking about on the FP comments.  Merian used the term also...so again...I am using the plain and simple version because Shango was speaking to posters from all over the world on the FP.  Remember Shango is the one that mentions the elders and how they run things on the island.  Simian began to use Shango's terms such as the difference between Sumerians and Arawaks. Obviously I am mistaken here but that is my opinion and I'm sticking to it for the time being.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:29 pm
There will be sacrifice
Tribal elders worried
Bad wampum, many moons
Light the fires


Shango Says:June 26th, 2005 at 10:48 pm
Coverups begin with elders and the founders of the houses of Babylon
Not the minions
DirtyHand knows this

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:53 pm
DirtyHand is the key
He walks with the elders
He walks in all houses
And he walked with the fallen elder
he was the hidden card that was played
now if he sings, babylon will fall on the arawak nation

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 11:05 pm
DirtyHand has worked for the elders for a long time


Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 9:51 pm
DirtyHand walks with the Babylons, the Arawaks and is consort to the fallen elder
The gods are talking [/i]


Merian Ernest Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 4:30 pm Post subject: Tuesdays have no character
All along the guards cried. The checkmate was a joke. The boy is a foul mouthed fool.

The elder drags his feet on the pavement. A shadow of his former self. The keys to the
palace have been taken from him, yet he still remembers the passage ways.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Silverfox on June 24, 2008, 10:52:12 AM
Maybe this?

Quote
Hendrik Croes - a brother of the island's legendary leader, the late Betico Croes who guided Aruba to its semi-independent status in the Dutch realm - is one of the leading political figures on the island. He led several election campaigns for the MEP, now in the opposition. The Croes Family has been accused of ties with Cuntrera-Caruana. The Sicilian mafiosi payed for a trip of another brother, Rudy Croes (who succeeded Hendrik as Minister of Justice in a previous MEP government) as party secretary to a meeting of the Socialist International in Turkey. This has not been denied.

http://www.hyscience.com/archives/2005/10/harrytho_1017_e.php (http://www.hyscience.com/archives/2005/10/harrytho_1017_e.php)


Perhaps this is Dirty Hand.... Notice the Thailand Connection?  Notice he is still at large? (Unless someone has an update)

Quote
The 52-year old Alfonso Caruana is the living example of the international ramifications, elusiveness and continuity of the family's activities. Although a fugitive, he remains one of the top level Family bosses. The fact he is married to Giuseppina Caruana, the daughter of Family patriarch Giuseppe Caruana (brother of Alfonso's father Carmelo Caruana) the eldest of the foregoing generation, is an indication to be taken seriously in the archaic conventions which rule the internal dynamics of the clan. (86)

In 1968 he arrived in Canada with 100 dollar in his pocket pretending to be an electrician. Ten years later he was stopped at the international airport of Zürich in Switzerland with 600,000 dollar in a suitcase. He was released after paying a fee. At the beginning of the 1980s Alfonso established himself near Lugano in a luxurious villa, supervising the laundering of dollar-deposits at Canadian banks channelled through Swiss accounts. Two years later he moved to the stockbrokers belt near London. From his £450,000 mansion, driving around in his BMW 732i or Mercedes 500 SEL, he supervised a heroin pipeline from Thailand, through England, to Canada. He went to Thailand to set up the route. When the pipeline was dismantled in England, he managed to escape arrest, moving to a Montreal suburb where he opened a pizzeria. Alfonso prepared the pizzas while his wife tended the pay-desk.

At the time Alfonso Caruana was already high on the most-wanted list because, according a high-placed Italian police official, "he was the one who knew most about Mafia finances." (87) When the Canadian tax-man moved in (alerted by the police who were unable to indict him) he left for Caracas, ignoring the 827,962 Canadian dollars the tax collector had seized. Law enforcement lost his traces. He is still at large, despite his conviction to 20 years' imprisonment by the Palermo Court.

Although he is subject to an international arrest warrant, Italian police in 1996 did not have his snap-shot and did not know if he was still alive. According to some he is moving around in Venezuela or Colombia; according to others he is in Aruba or Curaçao

He sure fits the Shango description, does he not?  His connections are also tied to the Holiday Inn...and also a Canadian connection (remember the cartoon?)

http://www.s1on1.com/main/index.cgi/000000A/http/www.tni.org/detail_page.phtml?page=archives_tblick_aruba (http://www.s1on1.com/main/index.cgi/000000A/http/www.tni.org/detail_page.phtml?page=archives_tblick_aruba)

(http://www.s1on1.com/main/index.cgi/000000A/http/www.tni.org/images/pubs/acaruana.jpg)



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Rob on June 24, 2008, 11:07:59 AM
I too believe Betico was assassinated. I wrote about it on my blog, so I'm aware of what took place. The info I gathered is the usual run of the mill stuff that most have also read. That's what is available in English.

So, let's just speculate that Betico was indeed assassinated. Who would be motivated? That's the first question. Who benefits when Betico is gone? Oduber does. We know that, but that's the public end. Who benefits on the underworld end?

Removing Betico from the public scene could help the Cuntera's or other mob related interests. Do we know whether there was anything that put Betico and the Mob at odds? I'm not sure I have seen anything, and one other thing makes me wonder...-> why would the mob kill Betico when he removes Holland from the picture in a lot of areas? He makes it easier to move drugs and launder money. So, if that's true, maybe it's not the mob that kills Betico, but someone in the opposition that wanted him dead for REMOVING HOLLAND. Maybe the Babylonians killed Betico?

 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 24, 2008, 11:14:06 AM
According to Caps, Dirty Hand is the guy whose name I will never spell correctly...Deutkom or whatever.  I don't know enough about him to explain his reasoning...in fact...I doubt the FP posters had ever heard of him when Shango was posting...so once again...context is everything...but only in my book.   :roll:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 24, 2008, 11:19:56 AM
Rob - there was a rumor that a certain family was involved in the accident.

Mum and LaLa's - who knows, maybe Julia Renfro could even be Dirty Hand.  ::MonkeyHaHa::  Just like JM, her newspaper goes to all houses.  Who has been a consort to the fallen elder?   ::MonkeyRoll::  Check the party-goers.  Oh, and Regnad is here.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 24, 2008, 11:33:49 AM
Rob - there was a rumor that a certain family was involved in the accident.

Mum and LaLa's - who knows, maybe Julia Renfro could even be Dirty Hand.  ::MonkeyHaHa::  Just like JM, her newspaper goes to all houses.  Who has been a consort to the fallen elder?   ::MonkeyRoll::  Check the party-goers.  Oh, and Regnad is here.

That darn Regnad!  He really should move on. :roll:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 24, 2008, 11:37:55 AM
And lest I stir another controversy?  There are other newspapers that go in all houses and are read by the locals.  Didn't call any names, but Regnad beware!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 24, 2008, 11:52:56 AM
And lest I stir another controversy?  There are other newspapers that go in all houses and are read by the locals.  Didn't call any names, but Regnad beware!


LOL

SS...my notes that I found while checking out Damilice Mansur...not her's...too much to post right now...Some-one on Damilices friend's list has Jc Jr as a friend and can't find it in my notes...here are some interesting connections...as Lala's said ... they all know each other...

Lalo Croes

Lalo Croes | FacebookNizana Solognier · Damilice Mansur Damilice Mansur
· Desiree Coronel Desiree Coronel · Dana Ber Dana Ber · Armin E.
Solognier Armin E. Solognier ...
www.facebook.com/people/Lalo_Croes/608906702 - 17k - Cached - Similar
pages

Well Lalo Croes is married to Michael Saladin, an American living in
Aruba, not sure if he is jail! And Lalo's sister Guisette and Michael 
Saladin are the vocalists in the Mi Dushi Band!!!



Betico's daughter????


Aruba's official Holiday to remember him has been marked on January
25, his birth date.

Caya G. F. Betico Croes is named for him and is the main shopping
street in Oranjestad, Aruba.

Has 2 sons, Glenbert and Junior Croes and 2 daughters Lalo Saladin-
Croes and Guisette Croes.

MySpace.com - Dushi Band of Aruba - Oranjestad, Caribbean - Techno ...
Band Members, Hildward Croes (Director / Keyboards / Vocals), Guisette Croes (Vocals), Michael Saladin (Vocals), Melvin Garcia (Vocals), ...profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=27529601 - 193k - Cached - Similar pages
Gay News From 365Gay.com
Aug 21, 2005 ... "Being gay is still taboo in Aruba," said Guisette Croes, 41, a lesbian who owns a music store in the capital, Oranjestad, ...www.365gay.com/newscon05/08/082105Aruba.htm - 28k -






Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 24, 2008, 12:27:34 PM
And lest I stir another controversy?  There are other newspapers that go in all houses and are read by the locals.  Didn't call any names, but Regnad beware!


LOL

SS...my notes that I found while checking out Damilice Mansur...not her's...too much to post right now...Some-one on Damilices friend's list has Jc Jr as a friend and can't find it in my notes...here are some interesting connections...as Lala's said ... they all know each other...

Lalo Croes

Lalo Croes | FacebookNizana Solognier · Damilice Mansur Damilice Mansur
· Desiree Coronel Desiree Coronel · Dana Ber Dana Ber · Armin E.
Solognier Armin E. Solognier ...
www.facebook.com/people/Lalo_Croes/608906702 - 17k - Cached - Similar
pages

Well Lalo Croes is married to Michael Saladin, an American living in
Aruba, not sure if he is jail! And Lalo's sister Guisette and Michael 
Saladin are the vocalists in the Mi Dushi Band!!!



Betico's daughter????


Aruba's official Holiday to remember him has been marked on January
25, his birth date.

Caya G. F. Betico Croes is named for him and is the main shopping
street in Oranjestad, Aruba.

Has 2 sons, Glenbert and Junior Croes and 2 daughters Lalo Saladin-
Croes and Guisette Croes.

MySpace.com - Dushi Band of Aruba - Oranjestad, Caribbean - Techno ...
Band Members, Hildward Croes (Director / Keyboards / Vocals), Guisette Croes (Vocals), Michael Saladin (Vocals), Melvin Garcia (Vocals), ...profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=27529601 - 193k - Cached - Similar pages
Gay News From 365Gay.com
Aug 21, 2005 ... "Being gay is still taboo in Aruba," said Guisette Croes, 41, a lesbian who owns a music store in the capital, Oranjestad, ...www.365gay.com/newscon05/08/082105Aruba.htm - 28k -






Wow! The plot thickens!



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 24, 2008, 12:39:21 PM
Hey SS!
This one's for you.  ::MonkeyWink::

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8rZWw9HE7o&feature=related


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on June 24, 2008, 01:17:38 PM
A Casino is also called a Gambling HOUSE. So if we look at HOUSE as a Casino, a simple party at his 'house' would be a party at HIS (the owners') casino. Then the 'cars of the house' could be taxi's or limos that bring the high rollers from the airport to the hotel/casino. 

Maybe "THE GAME" is all the cheating and money laundering taking place inside the casinos as the watchtower centries are sleeping.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 6:04 pm
Lucy you are wrong. It was just a simple party at his house. He was [there] “the whole time.”

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 3:31 pm
The father was confronted with evidence. Can’t confirm if it’s from the cars of the house. They needed this to make him talk. [Maybe this was not Paulus, but the 'other father'-the casino owner?]

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:18 pm
Shock means well. He understands the Babylonians, but they don’t hold the hammer nor the block [the judge] The alibi needs to be broken. The party-go-ers need to be pressured. They have seen from the corners of their eyes. The house was dusted.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:58 pm
Halls of the house of babylon may suddenly twist to accomodate cowboys walking in the maze. No loot, but many answers. Better twisted hallways than fallen houses. Many invisible spirits around Arawak Fires. Many gods watching. we must have a sacrifice. Light the fires!

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:54 pm
The Arawaks are not going to sacrifice a scapegoat. Babylon needs to allow one sacrifice to keep DirtyHand hidden. Babylon scared of DirtyHand. Arawaks scared of DirtyHand. If sacrifice is made, teepees are safe, villagers and cowboys happy. If DirtyHand discovered, House of Babylon falls, Teepees crushed under great house

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:58 pm
Arawaks want to make cowboys happy. Babylonians want to maintain integrity of Great House. Gods of the cowboys know there was a game in the great house, and so DirtyHand was discovered. But the sacrifice will be offered before dirty hand sings. He will return to babylon, broken but anonymous.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 6:13 pm
His lordship did not bring the key, it does not exist. doors to eden remain closed. The arawaks hold the singing cards. They have the babylonian and 2 shivas. But the other card is dirty. Even if you play cards in the house of babylon as an arawak, you still have DirtyHand. If DirtyHand comes out of hiding, Babylon will fall and the cowboys will circle the wagons. DirtyHand can destroy the Arawaks and Babylon. Better to prepare the sacrifice quickly so the cowboys go home ….without the loot

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 8:11 pm
One straight path to the house of Rave, while of gold bricks the road is not paved, answers mysterious lie within magical letters which spell sin XTC DNA .

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:48 pm
The card of babylon was already played. if it sings, DirtyHand will bring down the Royal House on top of the Arawak Nation. the gods have handed down a pipe of peace, but a sacrifice will be made. Some elders of the game, not just of babylon walk in older circles. cowboys hear the singing, but the words are not understood. The gods and the babylonians are worried about the cowboys response.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:01 pm
Arawaks often go to play in small houses of Babylon with the offspring of the Elders.

Shango Says:June 26th, 2005 at 10:13 pm
DirtyHand walks in ALL houses.  houses of the Arawaks, and houses of Rave.  He can break the alibi.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:30 pm
You always find forbidden desires in the small houses of Babylon. the girl knew this. Find DirtyHand! He too walked in this house of Babylon. But not to satiate desire.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:41 pm
even after a daughter gives birth to a grandchild, the father of the new mother will still claim his daughter is a virgin. All who enter the damned corridors of the houses of Babylon know the dangers that await. But the knowledge that they are forbidden is what makes them so pleasurable.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:45 pm
All who enter the damned corridors of the houses of Babylon know the dangers that await.

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:41 pm
Mary ROLLED through the Maze. There is more than one house of music. the Lamb is a scapegoat.

Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 2:39 am
The arawaks must hunt the lions in the place of darkness house of secrets

Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 2:59 am
The Simian Doppleganger is upset because the arawak nation is hiding the truth from the cowboys. DirtyHand knows. Simian knows. The Simian stated for 2 days, the key would come from the hague the next day. Shango said no two times. Is Simian a DirtyHand too. Has the Simian played with the lions in the houses of ill-repute and poison notes where the innocent flies are lured? Has the Simian, primate that he is, fed with the other animals? Back ye fetid mongrel, as the 46th are you; delegate of the 7th level of inferno, not birthed, but spewed from the dark chasm of a nightmare!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 24, 2008, 01:39:49 PM
Thanks Poochy...Jaime's dad worked at the Wyndham, it is in his PV about picking his Dad up at 11PM...also the one with the mispelt name, according to some FP posters, and Julia said she had spoken to him around the time of the August arrests.

Thanks for the gambling house...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 24, 2008, 01:49:50 PM
Hey SS!
This one's for you.  ::MonkeyWink::

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8rZWw9HE7o&feature=related




 ::MonkeyWink::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on June 24, 2008, 02:48:16 PM
Thanks Poochy...Jaime's dad worked at the Wyndham, it is in his PV about picking his Dad up at 11PM...also the one with the mispelt name, according to some FP posters, and Julia said she had spoken to him around the time of the August arrests.

Thanks for the gambling house...


Mum - Thanks - totally forgot Jaime's dad worked at the Wyndham.

Follow the star (stellaris)- see the star logo on the link at their website http://www.stellariscasino.com/
Aruba Marriott Resort, Palm Beach, Aruba
This 'house' seems to be the 'largest' casino on Aruba. 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 24, 2008, 03:25:29 PM
Thanks Poochy...Jaime's dad worked at the Wyndham, it is in his PV about picking his Dad up at 11PM...also the one with the mispelt name, according to some FP posters, and Julia said she had spoken to him around the time of the August arrests.

Thanks for the gambling house...


Mum - Thanks - totally forgot Jaime's dad worked at the Wyndham.

Follow the star (stellaris)- see the star logo on the link at their website http://www.stellariscasino.com/
Aruba Marriott Resort, Palm Beach, Aruba
This 'house' seems to be the 'largest' casino on Aruba. 

Ah!...But is it the Star where the deadends meet?

Thought COLUMBO would have popped in by now!  ::MonkeyHaHa::

Link to the Arambatzis thread....

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2973.new#new



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on June 24, 2008, 03:35:35 PM
Wizard of Oz....follow the Yellow Brick Road... (of gold bricks the road is not paved (BRICKell ?))

2:31 PM
the grey whisper said...the talisman in his hand is running out of charms. the broomsticks are enchanted, but their master may regret the dance now that it has been set in motion.

Talisman "A talisman is a magical object you usually wear on a chain around your neck [bling bling]. The talisman's magic, unlike the amulet's, is not only warding off (repelling), but also proactive (performing magic), such as healing, alerting, spellsending, cursing etc. The magic is in the object and therefore never expires."

http://tinyurl.com/6blfv8

"... Could it be that our current methods of seeking the Good are based on a deceptive view of the Good, and even some times a deliberately deceptive view of the Good? Dorothy was sent to achieve a certain goal—having been assured by the expert Wizard of Oz that once she obtained the witch’s broomstick she would win her trip home.This was a deception: the quest for the broomstick had nothing to do with her ability to gain the Good she sought, to gain her goal of a return to Kansas. Dorothy was lucky—she won her freedom—but only after she discovered the Wizard’s deception, only after she recognized that neither the Wizard nor the broomstick was a magic talisman with the power to grant her wish. She was amazed to find that she had always had the ability to achieve her goal. Her friends—the Lion, the Scarecrow, and the Tin Man—found that they had always been capable of what they had searched for all along—it just took some recognition by their own minds and hearts of their own capacities. The search for the broomstick had shown them all that they had hidden strengths and skills. (In this, I have always enjoyed this movie.) The author had deliberately written it that way. Dorothy went after the broomstick without any guarantee that it would work to get her home. There is nothing intrinsic about a broomstick—even a witch’s broomstick, which in fairy tales has all sorts of powers—nothing that made it obvious that it had the power to do what she wanted. She trusted the word of the “expert” Wizard. How much of the information we are given by “experts” is designed to induce behavior for motives we aren’t aware of. How many “broomsticks” are we all chasing? It turned out that Dorothy’s actions freed a lot of people from a tyranny—but there was nothing intrinsic in the story that could have given her that belief before she did it. Moreover, the only reason it ended that way was because the author, Baum, wrote it that way. It could just as easily ended that the broomstick itself gave the Wizard the power to enslave a lot of people, instead..."



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 24, 2008, 03:49:27 PM
Those danged Florida connections...there they are again. ::MonkeyCool::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 24, 2008, 04:06:08 PM
Fine!  The fallen elder is not Paulus...Merian referred to him as the same...so I guess I am mistaken. To me, it is the only thing that fits at this point.  In context he was referenced as a failed judge, so when Shango said elder, at that point in time, which would be in June...Paulus was the person everyone was talking about on the FP comments.  Merian used the term also...so again...I am using the plain and simple version because Shango was speaking to posters from all over the world on the FP.  Remember Shango is the one that mentions the elders and how they run things on the island.  Simian began to use Shango's terms such as the difference between Sumerians and Arawaks. Obviously I am mistaken here but that is my opinion and I'm sticking to it for the time being.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:29 pm
There will be sacrifice
Tribal elders worried
Bad wampum, many moons
Light the fires


Shango Says:June 26th, 2005 at 10:48 pm
Coverups begin with elders and the founders of the houses of Babylon
Not the minions
DirtyHand knows this

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:53 pm
DirtyHand is the key
He walks with the elders
He walks in all houses
And he walked with the fallen elder
he was the hidden card that was played
now if he sings, babylon will fall on the arawak nation

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 11:05 pm
DirtyHand has worked for the elders for a long time


Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 9:51 pm
DirtyHand walks with the Babylons, the Arawaks and is consort to the fallen elder
The gods are talking [/i]


Merian Ernest Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 4:30 pm Post subject: Tuesdays have no character
All along the guards cried. The checkmate was a joke. The boy is a foul mouthed fool.

The elder drags his feet on the pavement. A shadow of his former self. The keys to the
palace have been taken from him, yet he still remembers the passage ways.





I'm with Mum on Paulass as the fallen elder.  He had been denied his judgeship.  Many threads ago, someone was working on Deutekom as Dirty Hand because everyone was afraid of him and he was powerful as a prosecuter.  The question that I have about "can't spell his name" is how he would have walked in all houses if we can't even get a picture of the dude?  If he walks in all houses, wouldn't he be known and recognized by a lot of people?

Poochy - have you run across this guy Deutekom in any of your research?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 24, 2008, 04:20:49 PM
Fine!  The fallen elder is not Paulus...Merian referred to him as the same...so I guess I am mistaken. To me, it is the only thing that fits at this point.  In context he was referenced as a failed judge, so when Shango said elder, at that point in time, which would be in June...Paulus was the person everyone was talking about on the FP comments.  Merian used the term also...so again...I am using the plain and simple version because Shango was speaking to posters from all over the world on the FP.  Remember Shango is the one that mentions the elders and how they run things on the island.  Simian began to use Shango's terms such as the difference between Sumerians and Arawaks. Obviously I am mistaken here but that is my opinion and I'm sticking to it for the time being.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:29 pm
There will be sacrifice
Tribal elders worried
Bad wampum, many moons
Light the fires


Shango Says:June 26th, 2005 at 10:48 pm
Coverups begin with elders and the founders of the houses of Babylon
Not the minions
DirtyHand knows this

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:53 pm
DirtyHand is the key
He walks with the elders
He walks in all houses
And he walked with the fallen elder
he was the hidden card that was played
now if he sings, babylon will fall on the arawak nation

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 11:05 pm
DirtyHand has worked for the elders for a long time


Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 9:51 pm
DirtyHand walks with the Babylons, the Arawaks and is consort to the fallen elder
The gods are talking [/i]


Merian Ernest Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 4:30 pm Post subject: Tuesdays have no character
All along the guards cried. The checkmate was a joke. The boy is a foul mouthed fool.

The elder drags his feet on the pavement. A shadow of his former self. The keys to the
palace have been taken from him, yet he still remembers the passage ways.





I'm with Mum on Paulass as the fallen elder.  He had been denied his judgeship.  Many threads ago, someone was working on Deutekom as Dirty Hand because everyone was afraid of him and he was powerful as a prosecuter.  The question that I have about "can't spell his name" is how he would have walked in all houses if we can't even get a picture of the dude?  If he walks in all houses, wouldn't he be known and recognized by a lot of people?

Poochy - have you run across this guy Deutekom in any of your research?

SS...not sure on Paulus...I am not very good at Shango...or Simian...or Mirian!

I am not surprised we haven't seen a pic of Deutekom, we may have been looking straight at him! We have heaps of pics from Aruba without names.

We only recently realised that there were two Ben Vockings...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 24, 2008, 04:21:37 PM
Poochy - we have three pieces of the Shango tale that we seem to keep going around and around with.  We seem to be stuck on Shango, the 5th suspect, and Dirty Hand.  After all of your research, who do you think these are?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on June 24, 2008, 05:02:09 PM

I'm with Mum on Paulass as the fallen elder.  He had been denied his judgeship.  Many threads ago, someone was working on Deutekom as Dirty Hand because everyone was afraid of him and he was powerful as a prosecuter.  The question that I have about "can't spell his name" is how he would have walked in all houses if we can't even get a picture of the dude?  If he walks in all houses, wouldn't he be known and recognized by a lot of people?

Poochy - have you run across this guy Deutekom in any of your research?

Sorry SS, first time I've heard of "Deutekom" is today.

If Houses = Casinos, who controls or oversees them on Aruba? A gaming or gambling commissioner who 'walks in all HOUSES'? 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 24, 2008, 05:24:36 PM

I'm with Mum on Paulass as the fallen elder.  He had been denied his judgeship.  Many threads ago, someone was working on Deutekom as Dirty Hand because everyone was afraid of him and he was powerful as a prosecuter.  The question that I have about "can't spell his name" is how he would have walked in all houses if we can't even get a picture of the dude?  If he walks in all houses, wouldn't he be known and recognized by a lot of people?

Poochy - have you run across this guy Deutekom in any of your research?

Sorry SS, first time I've heard of "Deutekom" is today.

If Houses = Casinos, who controls or oversees them on Aruba? A gaming or gambling commissioner who 'walks in all HOUSES'? 


I can't remember which one it is...either Judge Smid or Witt...and it will lead you back to the Halls of Justice...Which path?... ::MonkeyHaHa::





Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on June 24, 2008, 05:40:08 PM
Poochy - we have three pieces of the Shango tale that we seem to keep going around and around with.  We seem to be stuck on Shango, the 5th suspect, and Dirty Hand.  After all of your research, who do you think these are?


Dunno. My guess is as good as yours. Each codetalker hid their own agenda in their prose.

Who is Shango? If this was the 'ivy league, blue blooded, handicap of 12 codetalker', then my guess is it's Jossy's son who heard an earful about this case at the Mansur dinner table.   

Who is this 5th suspect? Someone we don't know, a hidden card. A gambler seen that week in the casino.  A "b'friend" from earlier in the week. The guy with Nat on the jewelry store cam. Someone with clout or parents have clout, international amnesty. A Prince, a US Senator's or governer's son as FBI and Condi Rice immediately let their presence be known, someone of that stature. Maybe someone who flew back to the US on the private jet.

Who is DirtyHand? Someone in the mob or a terrorist.  Someone we all thought was deceased now alive and well, hiding on a small island in a house 'by the haystack' and comes from Santa Marta. Well, now he's a broken man, and went back to Babylon. Is Babylon Iraq or is it Netherlands? 

Why hasn't a codetalker posted in all these months? They see us struggling. Did they get what they wanted? Chewed up tongue (and his little willie) bouncing around on the beach? 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 24, 2008, 06:01:05 PM
You guys are reading way too much into these cryptic messages.  The people they were talking to were plain and simple FP posters that knew things in varying degrees. Simian/Merian wanted that 5th suspect to be known, but for reasons I don't exactly know would never say the name.  It could have been because of fear. 

Shango clearly knew dirty hand and did not want to say who it was.  That is the way of a coward considering dirty hand could have solved this case and put the guilty in jail.  Shango showed up shortly after Simian  began implicating this other person 5th suspect.  What does that tell you?  It tells me that Shango knew this 5th person too and was trying to deflect blame from him/her. Why the need to do that?  The fussing between Simian and Shango is apparent and it's just as it is now...factions on Aruba vying for control of the island. Both of these posters were cowards if they knew all this stuff and spent all their time posting on an internet forum instead of going to the FBI with this info. 



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 24, 2008, 06:19:06 PM
Poochy - we have three pieces of the Shango tale that we seem to keep going around and around with.  We seem to be stuck on Shango, the 5th suspect, and Dirty Hand.  After all of your research, who do you think these are?


Dunno. My guess is as good as yours. Each codetalker hid their own agenda in their prose.

Who is Shango? If this was the 'ivy league, blue blooded, handicap of 12 codetalker', then my guess is it's Jossy's son who heard an earful about this case at the Mansur dinner table.   

Who is this 5th suspect? Someone we don't know, a hidden card. A gambler seen that week in the casino.  A "b'friend" from earlier in the week. The guy with Nat on the jewelry store cam. Someone with clout or parents have clout, international amnesty. A Prince, a US Senator's or governer's son as FBI and Condi Rice immediately let their presence be known, someone of that stature. Maybe someone who flew back to the US on the private jet.

Who is DirtyHand? Someone in the mob or a terrorist.  Someone we all thought was deceased now alive and well, hiding on a small island in a house 'by the haystack' and comes from Santa Marta. Well, now he's a broken man, and went back to Babylon. Is Babylon Iraq or is it Netherlands? 

Why hasn't a codetalker posted in all these months? They see us struggling. Did they get what they wanted? Chewed up tongue (and his little willie) bouncing around on the beach? 



Thanks Poochy.  I've never been to Aruba, have you?  Where is Santa Marta?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 24, 2008, 06:32:59 PM
What if Babylon is casinos?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Silverfox on June 24, 2008, 07:57:05 PM
What if Babylon is casinos?


Actually not all that far fetched. 

And actually you all may have cracked the code. 

if Babylon = Casinos

Study Revelations 18:

Lament Over Fallen Babylon

 
Quote
  1 After this I saw another angel coming down from heaven. He had great authority, and the earth was illuminated by his splendor. 2 With a mighty voice he shouted:
       " 'Fallen! Fallen is Babylon the Great!' [a]
       She has become a dwelling for demons
       and a haunt for every evil spirit,
       a haunt for every unclean bird,
       a haunt for every unclean and detestable animal.

    3 For all the nations have drunk
       the maddening wine of her adulteries.
       The kings of the earth committed adultery with her,
       and the merchants of the earth grew rich from her excessive luxuries."

http://www.ibs.org/bible/verse/?q=Revelation%2018 (http://www.ibs.org/bible/verse/?q=Revelation%2018)

Casino Culture is a counter culture (sub).  Paulus and Joran (a judge and a spoiled minor) were given free access.  The Sicilian Mafia previously owned HI --- Posner was operating at the time -- but all the other casinos on the island would also be connected.  The hidden man may very well be Mafioso.  The ties to the top leaders of the country would be indesputable for if he were arrested and made to testify he would bring them all down --

So, start thinking of Babylon not as Holland -- but as the Casino world.  It fits pretty dramatically IMO....


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on June 24, 2008, 08:21:57 PM
What if Babylon is casinos?



never thought of that........



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on June 24, 2008, 08:33:04 PM
A Casino is also called a Gambling HOUSE. So if we look at HOUSE as a Casino, a simple party at his 'house' would be a party at HIS (the owners') casino. Then the 'cars of the house' could be taxi's or limos that bring the high rollers from the airport to the hotel/casino. 

Maybe "THE GAME" is all the cheating and money laundering taking place inside the casinos as the watchtower centries are sleeping.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 6:04 pm
Lucy you are wrong. It was just a simple party at his house. He was [there] “the whole time.”

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 3:31 pm
The father was confronted with evidence. Can’t confirm if it’s from the cars of the house. They needed this to make him talk. [Maybe this was not Paulus, but the 'other father'-the casino owner?]

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:18 pm
Shock means well. He understands the Babylonians, but they don’t hold the hammer nor the block [the judge] The alibi needs to be broken. The party-go-ers need to be pressured. They have seen from the corners of their eyes. The house was dusted.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:58 pm
Halls of the house of babylon may suddenly twist to accomodate cowboys walking in the maze. No loot, but many answers. Better twisted hallways than fallen houses. Many invisible spirits around Arawak Fires. Many gods watching. we must have a sacrifice. Light the fires!

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:54 pm
The Arawaks are not going to sacrifice a scapegoat. Babylon needs to allow one sacrifice to keep DirtyHand hidden. Babylon scared of DirtyHand. Arawaks scared of DirtyHand. If sacrifice is made, teepees are safe, villagers and cowboys happy. If DirtyHand discovered, House of Babylon falls, Teepees crushed under great house

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:58 pm
Arawaks want to make cowboys happy. Babylonians want to maintain integrity of Great House. Gods of the cowboys know there was a game in the great house, and so DirtyHand was discovered. But the sacrifice will be offered before dirty hand sings. He will return to babylon, broken but anonymous.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 6:13 pm
His lordship did not bring the key, it does not exist. doors to eden remain closed. The arawaks hold the singing cards. They have the babylonian and 2 shivas. But the other card is dirty. Even if you play cards in the house of babylon as an arawak, you still have DirtyHand. If DirtyHand comes out of hiding, Babylon will fall and the cowboys will circle the wagons. DirtyHand can destroy the Arawaks and Babylon. Better to prepare the sacrifice quickly so the cowboys go home ….without the loot

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 8:11 pm
One straight path to the house of Rave, while of gold bricks the road is not paved, answers mysterious lie within magical letters which spell sin XTC DNA .

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:48 pm
The card of babylon was already played. if it sings, DirtyHand will bring down the Royal House on top of the Arawak Nation. the gods have handed down a pipe of peace, but a sacrifice will be made. Some elders of the game, not just of babylon walk in older circles. cowboys hear the singing, but the words are not understood. The gods and the babylonians are worried about the cowboys response.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:01 pm
Arawaks often go to play in small houses of Babylon with the offspring of the Elders.

Shango Says:June 26th, 2005 at 10:13 pm
DirtyHand walks in ALL houses.  houses of the Arawaks, and houses of Rave.  He can break the alibi.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:30 pm
You always find forbidden desires in the small houses of Babylon. the girl knew this. Find DirtyHand! He too walked in this house of Babylon. But not to satiate desire.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:41 pm
even after a daughter gives birth to a grandchild, the father of the new mother will still claim his daughter is a virgin. All who enter the damned corridors of the houses of Babylon know the dangers that await. But the knowledge that they are forbidden is what makes them so pleasurable.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:45 pm
All who enter the damned corridors of the houses of Babylon know the dangers that await.

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:41 pm
Mary ROLLED through the Maze. There is more than one house of music. the Lamb is a scapegoat.

Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 2:39 am
The arawaks must hunt the lions in the place of darkness house of secrets

Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 2:59 am
The Simian Doppleganger is upset because the arawak nation is hiding the truth from the cowboys. DirtyHand knows. Simian knows. The Simian stated for 2 days, the key would come from the hague the next day. Shango said no two times. Is Simian a DirtyHand too. Has the Simian played with the lions in the houses of ill-repute and poison notes where the innocent flies are lured? Has the Simian, primate that he is, fed with the other animals? Back ye fetid mongrel, as the 46th are you; delegate of the 7th level of inferno, not birthed, but spewed from the dark chasm of a nightmare!


poison notes.....credit limits?


play cards in the house of babylon as an arawak....note the reference to playing cards! not a card game:
-the arawaks (cops) hold the singing card
-there is also a trio

play/game:
http://www.ca11.uscourts.gov/opinions/ops/200214306.pdf
p.4  Both pimps and prostitutes generally referred to their activities as “the game.”



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 24, 2008, 08:38:52 PM
What if Babylon is casinos?



never thought of that........




and I guess you missed my post about the Wyndham,  too?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on June 24, 2008, 08:41:47 PM
http://www.ipsn.org/lolli1.html

Acting through his underboss, Rocco Ernest Infelise, head of one of the largest "street crews" in Chicago, Ferriola directed Jahoda to lure 51-year-old Robert Heyden Plummer to the outfit's elegantly appointed "Murder Mansion" in northern Libertyville Township. The secluded Lake County mansion in the woods once belonged to a local millionaire, Bruce Rouse, and his wife, Darlene, until they were brutally murdered in 1980. Their case was never solved. The mob bought up acreage and spent $50,000 converting the former residence into a high stakes casino that employed eighteen full-time people (all "well-fed") to accommodate the gambling high rollers (ROLLERS) and fun- loving clientele who parked their cars in the rear. (lions which "play") Reportedly, the outfit raked in $400,000 for just fifteen nights of casino gambling (gold bricks). According to Jahoda, political protection was supplied by former Lake County Sheriff Tom Brown (dirty hand), whose elected term spanned 1978 - 1982.

The Murder Mansion was an appropriate setting for what Rocky Infelise had in mind. He told the skittish Jahoda a few short hours before a well-planned murder to lead the unsuspecting Bobby Plummer up the flight of stairs to the second-floor casino and "just keep going." Plummer was a "revenue collector" for Ferriola, and a gambler of long standing in the northern suburbs. He also operated the Front Runner Messenger Service, a horse-betting parlor in Highwood belonging to Michael Posner, a protégé of Ferriola and a kingpin in Lake County mob vice operations. Plummer, of north suburban Lake Forest, was attacked on the stairway and savagely beaten to death. His body was found in the trunk of his wife's Lincoln Continental in a Mundelein Holiday Inn parking lot.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Silverfox on June 24, 2008, 08:46:51 PM
According to the lore Babylon was the sinful city: drugs, prostitution, drinking and drugs and gambling.

Shango skillfully separated cultures.  Arawaks (the locals) Cowboys (Americans or other westerners) Babylonians (Casino culture), etc., etc.

If you take the riddles and read them with that understanding then a different, albeit more sinister, meaning starts to unfold.

All roads lead back to the casinos.

1. private party
2. mules are sent to retrieve a package -- probably for the pleasure of an elder or group of elders
3. package is delivered (may possibly be 'wrong package' - but delivered all the same
4. party went on and something bad happened
5. the mules (including the father as part of the selection committee) have to come up with alibi as they were last to be seen with the package
6. the Babylonians have to dispose of the 'evidence' and seeing as though they already are very skilled in that vocational endeavor they do so
7. alibis are hurriedly put together
8. unbeknownst to those players enforcement and intelligent agencies were monitoring what was going on -- this complicated things
9. Babylonians are hiding and trying to protect one or more 'persons of interest'

All the pieces start to fit together then.  Judges who suddenly reverse their rulings as soon as they leave the island.  Proscutors and ALE suddenly lose evidence (conveniently) including interrogations, etc.

Payoffs...intimidations...and combinations of the two

Now from a historical look back....

The Sicilian Mafia with the likes of Scarface assisted US forces during WWII --- It is said the American-Sicilian Mafia intervened and assisted in Bay of Pigs and other Cuban infiltration efforts during the 60's.  It is said that the famous 'Fruit' company issues of South American during the 50s, 60s, 70s et al were all tied, somehow to the same group.  Assasinations tooks place, governments were overthrown, etc., etc.

I believe Shango was telling us that Babylonia was the City of Casinos and this is why he became angered at Simian when he accused him of basically being tainted by same corruptive forces.

It would make sense that Shango would make some Biblical references -- And while most folks were concentrating on making Holland, Babylon it was right there the whole time including other terms like sacrificial lamb, mary, etc....

Babylon = casinos = city of sin and evil


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Silverfox on June 24, 2008, 09:27:02 PM
What if Babylon is casinos?



never thought of that........




and I guess you missed my post about the Wyndham,  too?

They are all tied and linked together.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on June 24, 2008, 09:31:41 PM
Ca$ino:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2tNAUUh0Dw&feature=related


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Rob on June 24, 2008, 09:32:11 PM
What if Babylon is casinos?


Actually not all that far fetched. 

And actually you all may have cracked the code. 

if Babylon = Casinos

Study Revelations 18:

Lament Over Fallen Babylon

 
Quote
  1 After this I saw another angel coming down from heaven. He had great authority, and the earth was illuminated by his splendor. 2 With a mighty voice he shouted:
       " 'Fallen! Fallen is Babylon the Great!' [a]
       She has become a dwelling for demons
       and a haunt for every evil spirit,
       a haunt for every unclean bird,
       a haunt for every unclean and detestable animal.

    3 For all the nations have drunk
       the maddening wine of her adulteries.
       The kings of the earth committed adultery with her,
       and the merchants of the earth grew rich from her excessive luxuries."

http://www.ibs.org/bible/verse/?q=Revelation%2018 (http://www.ibs.org/bible/verse/?q=Revelation%2018)

Casino Culture is a counter culture (sub).  Paulus and Joran (a judge and a spoiled minor) were given free access.  The Sicilian Mafia previously owned HI --- Posner was operating at the time -- but all the other casinos on the island would also be connected.  The hidden man may very well be Mafioso.  The ties to the top leaders of the country would be indesputable for if he were arrested and made to testify he would bring them all down --

So, start thinking of Babylon not as Holland -- but as the Casino world.  It fits pretty dramatically IMO....

casinos connect to CMB


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on June 24, 2008, 09:35:47 PM
native Arubans=Indians

arawaks hold the singing card
there is also a trio
arawaks can't let babylonian card sing
because hand holding it dirty too

dirty hand

a sacrifice will be made to spare the polis
to spare the teepees


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Rob on June 24, 2008, 09:37:59 PM

Who is DirtyHand? Someone in the mob or a terrorist.  Someone we all thought was deceased now alive and well, hiding on a small island in a house 'by the haystack' and comes from Santa Marta. Well, now he's a broken man, and went back to Babylon. Is Babylon Iraq or is it Netherlands? 

Poochy, we really need to know if Carlos Ledher is alive or dead.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Observer on June 24, 2008, 09:41:59 PM
It makes perfect sense..Prostitution,The Mob,Money,Laundering and Drugs..All affiliated with the casino's and the people involved in this case.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 24, 2008, 10:00:08 PM
"I took the camera to Freddy’s house.
We delivered the camera to Freddy, and afterwards all four of us ate Chinese in the area of Freddy’s house. Freddy also lives in Montanja."
(Satish Kalpoe Suspect Statement June 24, 2005.)

Zedan Arambatzis – age 21 in 2005
Joran met Freddy Zedan Arambatzis when Freddy was 19, they met during a tournament at the racquetball club. (source:p. 1 Jorans book)
Freddy is a light colored latino from Venezuela that only spoke papi. (source: p. 1 Joran's book)
Freddy's English sucked (source p. 5 Joran's book)
I am the best friend and neighbor of Joran. We got to know each other about two years ago.(source: June 12 Freddy's statement as written in Joran's book)
Freddy lives behind Joran.( D-6/11)

19 Montanja Joran van der Sloot
232 Montanja Jaime Carrasquilla
7A Catiri Freddy Zedan Arambatziz


I have been thinking about Freddy, the light skinned Latino, from Venezuela, that only spoke Pap, while working on the Arambatzis post!

If Joran is speaking the truth, for once, his 'Freddy' is probably Aruban. But if Freddy Zedan was Venezuela he probably didn't speak Pap!

The Language
Spanish is the main language of Venezuela. However, Venezuelan Spanish differs in pronounciation from the Spanish spoken in Spain. There are also some variations in vocabulary. Venezuelans call their language castellano.

Arubagirl couldn't find 'Freddy's' house when he was arrested in August of 2005, Caps couldn't find 'Freddy's' house in 2008.





Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 24, 2008, 10:05:06 PM
http://www.ipsn.org/lolli1.html

Acting through his underboss, Rocco Ernest Infelise, head of one of the largest "street crews" in Chicago, Ferriola directed Jahoda to lure 51-year-old Robert Heyden Plummer to the outfit's elegantly appointed "Murder Mansion" in northern Libertyville Township. The secluded Lake County mansion in the woods once belonged to a local millionaire, Bruce Rouse, and his wife, Darlene, until they were brutally murdered in 1980. Their case was never solved. The mob bought up acreage and spent $50,000 converting the former residence into a high stakes casino that employed eighteen full-time people (all "well-fed") to accommodate the gambling high rollers (ROLLERS) and fun- loving clientele who parked their cars in the rear. (lions which "play") Reportedly, the outfit raked in $400,000 for just fifteen nights of casino gambling (gold bricks). According to Jahoda, political protection was supplied by former Lake County Sheriff Tom Brown (dirty hand), whose elected term spanned 1978 - 1982.

The Murder Mansion was an appropriate setting for what Rocky Infelise had in mind. He told the skittish Jahoda a few short hours before a well-planned murder to lead the unsuspecting Bobby Plummer up the flight of stairs to the second-floor casino and "just keep going." Plummer was a "revenue collector" for Ferriola, and a gambler of long standing in the northern suburbs. He also operated the Front Runner Messenger Service, a horse-betting parlor in Highwood belonging to Michael Posner, a protégé of Ferriola and a kingpin in Lake County mob vice operations. Plummer, of north suburban Lake Forest, was attacked on the stairway and savagely beaten to death. His body was found in the trunk of his wife's Lincoln Continental in a Mundelein Holiday Inn parking lot.



COLUMBO...Do you have Michael Posner's full name and aliases? If I need a break from Florida, I would like to visit Chicago. TIA   ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on June 24, 2008, 10:12:57 PM

Thanks Poochy.  I've never been to Aruba, have you?  Where is Santa Marta?

Merian Ernest   7/13/05 5:51 pm
Find Aruba. Find the Haystack [HOOIBERG]. Find Santa Marta [SEE BELOW]. Trace with your finger what the Antenna has spoken about. Unleash the dogs. Inch by inch…grid by grid.

Merian Ernest 7/26/05 3:51pm
The Multi fractions spell democracy to the Simian. The tyranny of duality does not live in the conuco. Yes or no are not the only answers.  Pick up the pieces and make an island. Only the one who chopped it down understands. Sell your convictions to try and understand. Start anew, a new man. Who says the one who broke is the one who knows? Look by the haystack [HOOIBERG] in the small hours. They live in the conuco, but they are the only ones who can open the palace doors. The federales should be careful not to grease the palace floors. The robed ones will squeeze an escape through passageways used once before.  The checkmate is the same the tables might have turned. There are no donkeys or mules in chess only horses.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Marta_%28disambiguation%29

Real-world Communities
Colombia
Santa Marta, Magdalena department
Sierra Nevada de Santa Marta

Mexico
Santa Marta, Baja California Sur
Santa Marta, Sonora
Metro Santa Marta, a station on the Mexico City Metro

Portugal
Santa Marta de Penaguião
Santa Marta de Portuzelo

Spain
Santa Marta, Badajoz
Santa Marta del Cerro, Segovia
Santa Marta de Tormes, Salamanca
Santa Marta de Magasca, Cáceres province
Cubillas de Santa Marta, Valladolid province

United States
Santa Marta, Florida: former name of Key Biscayne

Fictional Communities
United States
Santa Marta (comics): a fictional city in the DC Comics fictional universe
   **here's our DC comic reference again!***



Simian Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:14 am
The road from the boy’s home leads to the dirty water. Look for Noord and look for Moko.
The cowboys feet are wet. They are not quickdraws, they will creep by the inch. It’s deep and wide. The Babylonians need this, before time runs out.  

Simian Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:33 am
Find Aruba. Look for Noord. Look for Montaña. Look for Moko. Let your fingers connect the dots.
The cowboys feet are deeper in the dirty water. The vultures are hanging around and are ready to pounce. Hang on to your tubes. The Simian doesn’t want to be right.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on June 24, 2008, 10:24:46 PM
native Arubans=Indians

arawaks hold the singing card
there is also a trio
arawaks can't let babylonian card sing
because hand holding it dirty too

dirty hand

a sacrifice will be made to spare the polis
to spare the teepees

YUP -
Native Aruban = Arawak.
Babylonian singing card = Casino owner/worker
Trio = 1 Joran + 2 Kalpoes
Aruban Hand Holding Him = Cop, or mob thug

Native Arubans HOLD the Casino owner/worker.
There is ALSO the trio of Joran and 2 Kalpoes.

Native Arubans can't let casino owner/worker talk because the COP/Mob thug holding him is dirty too.

So, Joran, the sacrifice, will be made to spare the dirty ARUBAN COP/Mob thug , who is in turn holding the Casino owner/worker. 

(Nice to meet you Colombo!)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on June 24, 2008, 10:31:18 PM
http://www.ipsn.org/lolli1.html
<snippet>
"...The Murder Mansion was an appropriate setting for what Rocky Infelise had in mind. He told the skittish Jahoda a few short hours before a well-planned murder to lead the unsuspecting Bobby Plummer up the flight of stairs to the second-floor casino and "just keep going." Plummer was a "revenue collector" for Ferriola, and a gambler of long standing in the northern suburbs. He also operated the Front Runner Messenger Service, a horse-betting parlor in Highwood belonging to Michael Posner, a protégé of Ferriola and a kingpin in Lake County mob vice operations. Plummer, of north suburban Lake Forest, was attacked on the stairway and savagely beaten to death. His body was found in the trunk of his wife's Lincoln Continental in a Mundelein Holiday Inn parking lot.

Colombo - when I read this I got a few things from it. 1) The answer lies on the 'whispering wind' which we all know is the STAIRWAY, 2) trunk of a car  3) Holiday Inn parking lot, 4) a King could be a KINGPIN and 5) There was a Bobby Plummer chaperone on the MB Aruba trip --what a small world).


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on June 24, 2008, 10:42:04 PM
Ca$ino:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2tNAUUh0Dw&feature=related

YUP again. Bingo!

Check this out:

http://tinyurl.com/573cyw
Frederick H. Dulles   (a few of his many 'accomplishments'):
• Completed the acquisition of a Russian hotel-casino project for American investors, including due diligence investigations with provincial government officials in Sakhalin and arranging for the sellers to acquire shares in a U.S. public company.
• Established a casino joint venture in Suriname, set up an Aruba joint venture company, prepared and negotiated the joint venture and casino management agreements.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Silverfox on June 24, 2008, 11:46:10 PM
"Eye in the Sky" is referenced in that Casino movie -- part 3.

"Eye in the Sky" = Casino Camera (control room)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: finngirl on June 25, 2008, 06:29:26 AM
You guys are reading way too much into these cryptic messages.  The people they were talking to were plain and simple FP posters that knew things in varying degrees. Simian/Merian wanted that 5th suspect to be known, but for reasons I don't exactly know would never say the name.  It could have been because of fear. 

Shango clearly knew dirty hand and did not want to say who it was.  That is the way of a coward considering dirty hand could have solved this case and put the guilty in jail.  Shango showed up shortly after Simian  began implicating this other person 5th suspect.  What does that tell you?  It tells me that Shango knew this 5th person too and was trying to deflect blame from him/her. Why the need to do that?  The fussing between Simian and Shango is apparent and it's just as it is now...factions on Aruba vying for control of the island. Both of these posters were cowards if they knew all this stuff and spent all their time posting on an internet forum instead of going to the FBI with this info. 

whose 5th suspect: ALE's or the prosecutor's?

an official/detained suspect reported in the media
or simply someone who set off the hinkymeter?

I doubt that we'll ever know

IMO, sim's predictions re the quarry search
also played a part in shango's first appearance
(as shango, anyway)

also IMO, the context of events
fuels the context of the posts

some of what simian said was obviously misleading ...
both in terms of logic and what we now know
and that may have been of his/her own free will

"Who said they all had sex with her. Nobody did as far as I know" ...
sounded iffy but believable on June 22

sex is a major motive in missing/murdered females cases ...
perhaps the intent was: we will not play up the sex angle here,
no telling where it may lead

the final sim/shango conversations revolve around
sim predicting and shango saying "slow down" ...
ending up w/ sim being wrong/shango saying "told you so"

Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 3:17 pm
Steve Croes is singing.

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 10:35 am 
Anybody want a blessing from Saint Alibi?


if sim was somehow tied to Steve Croes,
perhaps posts were used to slant suspicion away from him
and suggest that he was dragged into something

sim very/very seldom mentions Steve
and appears sympathetic when mention is made ...
while beating fairly hard/steady on the Lorenzo/? drum

the back beat is the alibi, the alibi, break the alibi

sim's source, whether ALE or prosecutor's office,
knew some/not all of the truth
and was blind to the depth of the cover-up

simian was led to believe that he/she was an "insider"
and that was true, to a degree ...
sim's postings served someone's purpose
or they would have been stopped or discredited

#1 the plan was to have the body recovered
in the waters of the quarry
but for whatever reasons that changed:
too much violence done to the body
or just plain wanting to stonewall,
insisting it can/will blow over eventually:
no body no case

or

#2 recovering the body in the quarry
was never really the plan:
a good way to find a leak is to plant false info
and then see who runs w/ it

Sat June 25
7:59 pm simian:
The fires burned high and bright. Even Saint John denied he knew. The smoke will clear soon. The elder can’t deny. The son can’t talk.


names morph thru cultures/languages.
Jan van der Straaten: Jan = Johannes = John

when the codetalkers say something
is as important as what they say:
shango's first post comes the day before the quarry search,
the day of the double cross

Sun June 26
Paulus is released & goes home.
Steve Croes' release is ordered
but he doesn't walk out until the next morning

2:58 pm simian:
The music man’s song was not on the bill
=
Steve Croes stepping forward w/ alibi was a rogue move,
unanticipated by those in charge

3:09 pm shango:
Simian, who else plays in the orchestra? A Babylonian….
=
"I'm here and I know as much as you do, perhaps more ...
please enlighten our readers"

3:18 pm simian:
The alibi needs to be broken. The party-go-ers need to be pressured. They have seen from the corners of their eyes. The house was dusted.

3:18 pm shango:
Simian, why was the key from the Babylons Palace not used to open the Sumerians Door?

3:26 pm shango:
Simian, his lordship did not bring the expected key, the door never existed.

3:30 pm shango:
Simian, his lordship did not bring the key for the Arawaks.

3:33 pm shango:
Simian, His Lordship did not bring the key found in the car, it did not exist.

3:40 pm shango:
The key does not exist .


the message is that the plan has changed,
something did not happen as anticipated,
which simian refuses to believe

4:04 pm simian:
The wire has been shaken. The bird has left.


Paulus is released, a fact not announced to the media for 2 more hours
and then simian is silent for hours
 
shango lays out that Joran will take the fall, in that,
even w/o a body as proof of murder,
he will forever be known as the one last seen w/ Natalee

4:12 pm shango:
The key to edens door did not exist. The refrain has already begun.

4:50 pm shango:
We must have a sacrifice. Hide dirty hand. Light the fires!

4:55 pm shango:
If cowboys see dirty hand, many teepees fall. House of Babylon falls. We must have a sacrifice to feed the cowboys. They go back to the fort with no loot.

4:58 pm shango:
Halls of the house of babylon may suddenly twist to accomodate cowboys walking in the maze.

No loot, but many answers. Better twisted hallways than fallen houses.

5:02 pm shango:
Do not listen to cowgirls who cast shadows on the walls of doubt…. There will be a sacrifice. The cowboys will be happy. The house of Babylon won’t fall and crush the teepees. There will be a sacrifice. Soon many will see smoke signals. Cowboys will go back to fort. But first we need the sacrifice.

5:04 pm shango:
Prepare the fires. We need a sacrifice A babylonian beast. Young Lamb der Sloot.
 
5:51 pm ConcernedUK:
Does Shango liaise with Simian?
 
6:30 pm shango:
Shango is not a Simian Doppleganger and has his own messengers.

8:04 pm shango:
The young Lamb der Sloot shall be the sacrifice for the Arawaks and the cowboys. All will sit around the fire and feast on scapegoat. The gods are talking. DirtyHand is alive and well.


hours later, sim returns, referring to Paulus/saying "I was right" ...
what has simian been told?

there is no loss of confidence, simian is insistent.
sim/shango continue to disagree over tomorrow's outcome

they respond quickly to each other, nearly ignoring the other posters.
any gaps between their back/forth are filled w/ shango's posts,
one after another

9:27 pm simian:
The elder had to come clean. He knows what damage he had caused.

The Simian said to not shake the wire, 'cause the bird would fly away. The Simian would never pose.

Go back and read what the Simian wrote. The Babylonians knows what happened, but they are up in arms. The gamblers knew the girl.

9:30 pm shango:
Who knows what song the elder will sing.

9:32 pm shango:
His lordship is there to preserve babylon, not the elder. Remember dirtyhand!

9:34 pm shango:
The struggle between the babylonians and the arawaks still remains hidden. The arawaks awaited the key.

His lordship said no. The door to eden remains closed. They are preparing the fire.

9:36 pm simian:
All that the gamblers knew was written down. They knew the girl. She spent her nights at their tables.

9:43 pm shango:
Did the babylonians like to make movies? From the tears, a new river will spring forth….

9:48 pm simian:
The boy told the Hindus that he didn’t need their help anymore. This was in the small hours. The confrontation was brutal. So who heeded his call? Who switched places? People…the bloodied, swollen tongue. The boy’s fear runs deep. They accuse him to be Bifrons.

10:24 pm simian:
The boy is no Ajax. He is too afraid of the consequences. He doesn’t want to be made a cafone.

The third act needs to be played and the cowboys will be heroes. This is all a “lugubrious game” to them.

They were all at the party and all of them are turning their heads. One of them needs to be pinched.

10:26 pm simian:
The Simian only speaks for himself.

10:56 pm shango:
The Simian knows his Lordship did not have a key to open the door to eden.

10:59 pm simian:
The package is still due.

11:01 pm simian:
If the door to eden is to be opened with that key, it will be tomorrow or forever remained closed.

11:05 pm shango:
DirtyHand has worked for the elders for a long time

11:09 pm simian:
The whisperer is on the line. The Babylonians know what happened, but their hands are tied.

They do not own the hammer nor the block. The owner of the hammer and the block will never carry the package from the Hague. The trias works infallibly.

The party-go-ers need to be pinched, but no one wants to be the cafone. Including the boy. Too much is at stake and he is no Ajax.

He is biting his tongue so he won’t be able to speak. So afraid he is.


simian's source is the whisperer ...
sim is saying the info is recent/reliable

11:12 pm shango:
Even Flying Birds Sing. If the key does not arrive tomorrow, that door to Eden will remain closed.
 
11:19 pm simian:
The Simian asks that his words not be confused with anyone else’s.

11:23 pm simian:
Who took the boy to the party? Who took him home? Therein lies the third act. Look up the Simian’s posts from days ago.


obviously not Steve Croes ... hmmm, or was it?
simian never points in his direction:
deflection or honest defense?

11:37 pm simian:
How can so many gamblers be wrong about the girl? This is unbelievable. The Babylonians need to pinch the ravers. That will need to happen tomorrow. The Simian is leaving.

12:39 am simian:
Watch tomorrow, but do not speak, and it will all unfold before you.


still confident that the source is correct
and the body will be recovered tomorrow

12:54 am simian:
I am leaving. I am done.


Mon June 27 the day of the quarry search
there was much discussion of the DirtyHand clues
and casino ownership/arabs were brought up.
ConcernedUK became confused & posted:

Very disjointed.
Dirty Hand is casino link to crimes involving, but bigger than, Natalee missing.
Arabs are related to this Island????
Is the kasino owned by Arabs?? Anyone??
Arabs do not equal terrorists. I understand that.
Is Dirty Hand an Arab?

 
Babalu answered and it seems pretty cut/dried IMO:
Babalu says chief of polis/Lucy's later post says polis.
shango repeatedly gives both posts a
LOOK AT THIS, THREADSURFERS

12:30 am Babalu:
ConcernedUK, no, I guess he is head of some local official corps. He is the guy that knows everything and that has been in the house of Babylonians NOT seeking pleasure for himself, so Shango says.So maybe he went to search for Natalee and he is the chief of Polis.

4:00 am shango:
Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon with his 12:30 posting.


there are late-morning reports that 2 search dogs have "hit"

5 hour break: no sim/no shango ...
then genuine sim interspersed w/ poser sim:

9:13 am simian:
Lack of evidence is not proof of innocence. The cowboys are looking everywhere, but the land and waters hold many secrets. The Babylonians need to keep an eye on the cowboys. The process muct be protected. The ravers need to be pinched.

10:51 am simian:
The Babylonians and the cowboys have swarmed the dirty waters. The dead dogs are stinking.

10:59 am simian:
The cowboys’ steel and wires are screaming. The dirty water is large, deep and too wide, but they are sure there is light on their screen. The Babylonians will be proven right. All along they were right. The story given by the gamblers might check out after all.

11:14 am simian:
The road from the boy’s home leads to the dirty water. Look for Noord and look for Moko. The cowboys feet are wet. They are not quickdraws, they will creep by the inch. It’s deep and wide. The Babylonians need this, before time runs out

11:33 am simian:
Find Aruba. Look for Noord. Look for Montaña. Look for Moko. Let your fingers connect the dots.

The cowboys feet are deeper in the dirty water. The vultures are hanging around and are ready to pounce. Hang on to your tubes. The Simian doesn’t want to be right.

11:37 am simian:
Her decapitated body to be found. Her head to wash up on shore later.

11:39 am simian:
Why does anyone want to be the Simian’s doppelganger. The Simian finds that to be counter productive.

11:46 am simian:
I have not left. I do not want to be copied however and would like to stay and speak.

11:58 am simian:
They have found her. Watch your news stations for this one. I said this was to happen. You can praise The Simian later.

12:08 pm simian: 
THEY FOUND HER BODY!!


simian then makes a few posts in spanish,
similar in meaning/translation of one is:

12:11 pm
he said to keep watching the news, and that he apologizes for the confusion, but he is tired of people trying to impersonate him


shango has been silent all morning
until simian/or doppelganger announces the body is found, then:

12:12 pm shango:
Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon with his 12:30 AM posting.
 
If the cowboys do not find the loot today, it will not be found

12:26 pm shango:
Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon with his 12:30 AM posting.

Simian your Doppleganger is with us

12:28 pm shango:
Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon with his 12:30 AM posting


shango knows the body will not be found,
simian is unaware of this ...
shango repeatedly refers to Babalu's DH/polis post

we watch tv, waiting for results of the search,
nothing comes ... simian/shango are silent for 8 hours until:

9:41 pm shango:
One straight path
to the house of Rave,
while of gold bricks
the road is not paved,
answers mysterious lie within
magical letters which spell sin
XTC DNA

9:44 pm shango:
Babalu opened a window looking into babylon on his 12:30 A.M. Post. DirtyHand is alive

9:46 pm shango:
Shango said the key to the Hague did not exist
that door to eden remains closed
until the house with the path
But not of gold
is entered

9:48 pm shango:
Babalu knew who dirty hand was at half past 12

10:30 pm drax:
Young Babylonians and Shivas do not build sand castles= they weren’t on the beach?

10:32 pm shango:
THE DRAX SCORES

10:45 pm shango:
Windows looking onto Babylon are being opened by the ThreadSurfers.
 
10:56 pm Lucy:
Someone said last night that Dirty Hand was somebody in the police.

10:57 pm drax:
DirtyHand has walked through the maze:…is DirtyHand Poppa VDS?

11:01 pm shango:
The Drax asks a question for which he already provided an answer

11:04 pm shango:
Babalu opened a window looking onto Babylon with his 12:30 A.M. post.

11:13 pm shango:
Lucy spoke at 10:56.

11:48 pm shango:
The Simian was incorrect about the package from the Hague. I told the Simian, but the Simian would not listen.

The simian is not a simian, but an austrolopithecus
 
11:52 pm shango:
Threadsurfers on other beaches are oblivious to the Maze and the lions. Without exposure, the arawaks will deceive the cowboys, they will leave without loot.


we haven't heard from simian for 12 hours ...
no body recovered/no posts from simian
until finally, well after midnight:

12:04 am shango:
The gods of Babylon have orchested the refrain for the Arawak choir
the music which holds the answers lies within the maze
the cowboys will smile sweetly as the chorus sings
backs turned to the maze
never hearing a single note
from the poison song

12:09 am subdude:
Raves as in XTC parties.

12:11 am shango:
All the Arawaks know the Maze which plays the poison songs.
 
12:14 am shango:
How those innocent young flies enter the trap with honey laden notes.
 
12:14 am Yliana:
And of course you have what we call the mobile pharmacies.

12:18 am Big Pappy:
Yliana, Can you name some places immediately associated with music and young people on the island other than the bars?

12:22 am Yliana:
pappy - we don’t have many places like that - kids usually hang out on the streets or in clubs because there are no other places to hang out. Oh, I forgot a big one - Moomba beach - (near Holiday Inn) - oooh a big one!

12:23 am shango:
Follow the notes
to the poison house
where the children of the babylonians
and the arawak nation
meet, under cover of delusion.
In the maze
the lions which play
shall be found.
The gamblers also took note.
Tell the cowboys!

12:23 am subdude:
Yliana: Why a big one?

12:26 am Yliana:
Subdude - Moomba beach is near the beach under the dark skies and it’s known that bartenders serve more than drinks. Especially when it’s full moon party night.
 
12:28 am shango:
Not all lions leave their den.

12:30 am Yliana:
Most of the cafes are Dutch owned. The Paddock and the Black Hog Saloon are two wild places where the Dutch frequent - not much of a young crowd though. Clubs in hotels come to mind too.

12:34 am Yliana:
There are many ‘country’ houses where parties are held. And these houses are not really mazes but have different rooms where things can happen.
 
12:34 am subdude:
Babylonians are Dutch because Dutch legal system in Aruba, I believe.Arawaks are Arubans. Children of Babylonians could be Dutch kids meeting with Arubans “under cover of delusion” — thinking they are not noticed. I am struggling — just spit balling.
 
12:35 am Yliana:
But I seriously doubt there would have been a party on a school night in a country house. It was after all Tuesday!


she's half-right: it was a school night but not a tuesday

12:37 am shango:
Yliana and Subdude have both opened windows which look into the heart of babylon

do not stray from your paths

you hold the key in hand

12:39 am shango:
The threadsurfers are opening the door to babylon
be careful of the lions
DirtyHand does not have them tamed
but he can enter the den
tell the cowboys

1:05 am subdude:
Yliana, Shango mentioned we had opened windows to the heart of Babylon just after our exchange regarding countryhouses. Dutch kids and Arubans meeting out in the country thinking no one noticed. Country house of the dealers which the police chief has been in.

Shango?
 
1:11 am shango:
See Subdude / Iliana 12:34

1:19 am jetline:
Shango, Do you know all of this because you were at the rave and witnessed what happened to Natalee or did someone else at the rave witness what happened and confide in you? Either way you need to report this to the appropriate authorities. If your story happens to be true and you knew it all along, you could be facing serious criminal charges. Otherwise, I think it is safe to assume that you are playing some kind of sick game and leading all readers on a wild goose chase. If the latter is true, I think your IP should be blocked.

1:32 am shango:
For the doubters: You do not need to see a grain of sand in your eye to know it is there.
 
1:43 am simian: 
The Simian has a handicap of 12.

1:52 am simian:
The Simian says that The Simian only reports developments ahead of time. The Simian thinks was is going on is shameless. Playing with feelings.
 
The Simian’s umbilical is buried close to the heart of the island. NOBODY EVER try to put us down. The Simian hates what he has been reading.

All things must pass.

1:55 am shango:
Find the music. Only David left the den alive

2:01 am simian:
The Simian is getting out. Knows Shango, knows Shock me, knows Checkme. Do not underestimate the power of the ping. Shango is a dumb copycat. Maybe the Simian should place a call on you. Get you 8 days with a hole to take a dump in. Complementary peanut butter on stale bread for you, you fool. The Simian is angry. Over and out.


8 days = Steve Croes' incarceration, give/take a day

2:09 am simian:
The Simian is disappointed. The Simian repeats himself seldom, but likes to say he only reports ahead of time. The clues were solely to avoid implicating sources. Never to hurt the feeling of the readers.

Seeing how this has been used to foul, the Simian will again say that he will retire.


obviously, you can only report ahead of time
if you know what is supposed to happen.
"seeing how this has been used to foul"
refers to being misled/lied to/used

2:13 am Robalo33:
someone wrote earlier the simeon was an austrolopithecus, which is an early man, not a monkey.

But simian. more of the stuff this shango says seems more real than your predictions.
Your predictions about the hague two days ago were wrong.

u were also wrong about the searchers finding natalee

2:15 am: Robalo33:
also that simeon never typed anything when he was upset. i believe that is a simeon poser

2:16 am Robalo33:
what has simeon said that came out true?

2:18 am simian:
f*** the poetry. The Simian is a frenchman. Blue blood if you should know.

2:21 am simian:
The Simian doesn’t make predictions. Only gives the group information ahead of time. Predictions are for fools. This is the Simian.

No me hagan mofa. Estoy molesto por las bobedades de Shango y Shock y Checkme. Se creen, pero no son.

 
translation: I will not be mocked. I am bothered by the bobedades (?) of Shango and Shock and Checkme.  They [are] believe[d], but should not [be].

2:21 am Robalo33:
J’aime mieux passer les temps avec un femme comme vous Simian.

 
translation: I would rather spend time with a woman like you Simian.

2:23 am Robalo33:
Simian tu no hablo nada de veridad todavia, ‘ta siempre la misma vaina con usted cabron?

 
translation: Simian you still do not speak anything true, is it always the same with you, bitch?

2:23 am shango:
?

2:24 am shango:
This Simian is not the Simian. It is a Doppleganger.

2:27 am shango:
Crypticism leads to tributaries of thought which would not usually leave the MainStream.
 
2:28 am simian:
Cabron seras tu, pendejo. Yo trato de pasar la informacion antes de tiempo, pero Uds. no entienden y creen que todo se soluciona por ser gringo. No hago predicciones y tampoco nunca dije que sabía que paso esa noche.
 
Je ne compris pas quesque tu dire. Que je suis une femme? La vie n’est pas comment tu pense.


translation: You're the bitch, asshole.  I try to pass the information ahead of time, but you do not understand and think that everything is solved, being a foreigner.  I do not make predictions and I never knew what happened that night.

I don't understand what you're saying. You think I'm a woman? Life is not what you think it is.

2:32 am simian:
Shango, you have been pinged. No pone bo mes na liña. E cosnan cu bo a papia awe por haci’bo dolor mañan. Cera bo boca y no papia di loke bo no sa. Bai drumi, paso ta laat.

Hopi hende ta lesa loke bo ta skibi. Nan lanta na porta di bo cas mañan, no spanta.


translation: Shango, get real, do not place yourself at the center. The things you say today can cause sorrow tomorrow. Close your mouth and do not talk of things you know nothing about. Go to sleep, it is late.

Many people are reading the things you are writing. They arrive/appear at the door of your house tomorrow, not spanta.

2:38 am Chimes:
The Simian and authentic others speak the language of Idiom:

A speech form or an expression of a given language that is peculiar to itself grammatically or cannot be understood from the individual meanings of its elements, as in keep tabs on.

2:45 am shango:
Shango finds it very humorous (and quite fitting) that a frenchman would assume the monniker of a Primate.

2:50 am simian:
As opposed to? Crack a book some time…

2:50 am shango:
The babylonian and the shivas did not build castles in the sand
they lost to the lions
dirty hand knows
the elder knows
and so do the arawaks
the cowboys are far from the house of babylon
the maze shall remain dark to all but the arawak nation and the elders

2:53 am simian:
Shango, whenever you think you can get on the inside of the real Aruban society give me a sign, you probably were picking up the trash.

You have been pinged. Bai drumi! Ta laat caba.


translation: Go to sleep! It is late.

2:59 am shango:
The Simian Doppleganger is upset because the arawak nation is hiding the truth from the cowboys

DirtyHand knows
Simian knows
The Simian stated for 2 days, the key would come from the hague the next day
Shango said no two times
Is Simian a DirtyHand too
Has the Simian played with the lions
in the houses of ill-repute and poison notes
where the innocent flies are lured?
Has the Simian, primate that he is, fed with the other animals?
Back ye fetid mongrel, as the 46th are you; delegate of the 7th level of inferno,
not birthed, but spewed from the dark chasm of a nightmare!

3:02 am simian:
Yo solo trato de pasar informacion antes de que se presente en las noticias. Primero, porque no se dicen las como se deben en Fox News o en CNN.

Sinembargo me encuentro ahora con un idiota que se cree hacer predicciones de cosas que no sabe. Alavez, claramente yo tampoco por no haber estado alli. Una vez mas yo solo paso informacion que tengo de gente que estan conectados en la sociedad Arubana.

Estoy muy disgustado hoy de leer como esta idiota que se hace llamar Shango esta jugando con los sentimientos de estos gringos y alavez Nancy Grace hablar de situaciones que ella ni siquiera entiende.


translation: I just try to pass information before it is presented in the news. First, because they do not say as they must in Fox News or Cnn. [more like: Mainly, because they do not report it as they should on Fox/CNN]

However now I encounter an idiot/am seen as an idiot to make/be making predictions of things we do not know. At the same time, clearly, I don't know, not having been there. Once again I only pass information I have from people who are connected in Aruban society.

I am very upset to read today as this idiot calling itself Shango is playing with the feelings of these gringos and at the same time Nancy Grace talks about situations that she does not even understand.

3:06 am shango:
Information the Simian left for 2 days was incorrect

His lordship brought nothing from the Hague

the simian listens to whisperings of the arawak tongue foolishly thinking he is an insider.

3:10 am simian:
Shango cannot understand PAPIAMENTO, otheriwse he would have already taken notice that he has been pinged.
 
If you really know more, you should spent the 8 days in jail eating peanut butter on stale bread with some cold tea. Just like Steve Croes.

3:37 am Chimes:
if indeed you receive and you transmit info before that arrives at the news, she can make all the predictions that she wants, but the intelligent people who believe in facts and nonmisticismo, do not put much attention to him (although she entertains.) Papiamento 101.


Tues June 28 the day following the quarry search.
posters kept asking each other "where is sim, where is shango?"

8:02 am jacqueline:
Did anyone see interview Greta did with the fellow who is helping with the search in the quarry? He too, had lost a child and authorities did not find her body until a year later. Anyway he commented something to the effect that yes, they may have hit something big and need to do more searching. This is the closest affirmation I have heard on news that they may indeed have found NH or perhaps someone else.

10:17 am simian:
hello news from the seas will rise today


has simian now been told that the body is in the ocean?

11:14 am Lucy:
*******
According to what has been said, he is not Colombian, he is from Aruba, but has connections with the Colombians. He is supposed to be filmed on the Holiday Inn’s video of the kaseeno. But, he supposedly has an “air tight alibi”, because a group of friends stated that he was at home with them.

This guy is from an area called Savaneta and is called Lorenzo.

12:00 pm Concerned:
What happened to the Diario correspondent who was following a vessel trying to remove a “group” from Aruba to the mainland? He called into Fox live. His name was Hubert, I believe. His name is on the Diario’s website.

12:11 pm Concerned:
As I was saying @ 1195-
What happened to the Diario correspondent who was following a vessel trying to remove a “group” from Aruba to the mainland? He called into Fox live. His name was Hubert, I believe. His name is on the Diario’s website.

Any ideas??

12:31 pm Concerned:
Does anyone know what is going on with the Diario reporter (Hubert?) who was following a group trying to get off Aruba to S. America? He called into FOX live last week? After that live phone call, nothing was mentioned again. I checked Diario’s site and his name was credible.

1:16 pm big pappy:
Last night Shango talked of finding natalee only if the cowboys refuse the peace pipe. Some of us took this to mean “refuse to just accept the body” when it’s found and stay to continue probing to get to the bottom of who actually did it. I’m wondering now if it does not mean some type of deal or plea bargain or something. Also mention that the “cowboys would smile” with their “backs to the maze” where all the crazy stuff went down. Makes it seem that the team will find what they are looking for, but if they don’t stay and push, we won’t ever know where the crime happened or what happened.

1:20 pm big pappy:
Larry, could be, but I thought both were mentioned in the post. I wanted to take all of Shangos stuff and get it in one document to review but needed to sleep!

1:31 pm simian:
Tides are high

1:33 pm kris:
Simian–
What’s going on?

1:34 pm checkme:
gttg. ltr.

1:34 pm Lucy:
Simian
Eres tu de verdad?

1:35 pm checkme
Hey, Lucy, on my way out. You OK?

1:37 pm kris:
I’m outa here guys–Talk to ya later

Thanks for the bud light MOM.

Be kind

1:38 pm Lucy:
Yes, and you? See you tonight or later.

1:39 pm Larry:
Papa—
The Arawaks will not enter the maze unless the cowboys refuse the peace pipe
Follow the music,
the lions are not tame
DirtyHand knows,
so does the elder

1:41 pm checkme:
Lucy, we will talk tonite.

Good to read you Kristin. I am happy the local system showed not to cover anything up.

1:42 pm kristen:
checkme,
why did simian say they found her body?

1:44 pm checkme:
Simian does not always say the Truth. The double makes it harder to read him sometimes.

1:48 pm MOMfromMO:
Checkme:
I find most everything Sim says, hard to swallow. I respect that many on here, thinks he preaches the ‘gospel’, but I’m not a very naive person. Open-minded, yes.

But you’re right. The “double” makes it more difficult.

1:51 pm Lucy:
Simian also gets a little paranoid, about his identity being compromised. But the Simian now here is not the real one, because Simian #1 knows Spanish and this one doesn’t.

2:17 pm KatCAll:
Where is Yliana, Simian and Checkme? We need you!

2:19 pm Lucy:
Yliana is probably sleeping. She was on until the early hours and then on again in the morning.

Simian is protecting his identity.

Checkme checked-in a while back, Said goodbye until tonight.

9:23 pm AnnaMaria:
Thanks, Lucy, re: Simian and faux-Simian. But it wasn’t him, actually. It was someone who posted on the SM forum about Lorenzo when he was questioned and released— said Lorenzo hosted many parties afterhours because one of his houses was off the beaten path where the cops usually couldn’t hear the music from the road. . .

You know, Ruben T. is in one of those pictures at the Aruban after party at the rave site. Maybe that’s nomal Aruba stuff - but if it was any official in the US, he’d be splashed all over the Enquirer the following week.

10:36 pm dcburgh:
that aruban lawyer was pretty hot

10:37 pm scaredshitless:
That Arlene lawyer from Aruba is strikingly beautiful. But that Marianne Croes person is a nerdy yuck……

10:38 pm checkme:
People, I must leave you… Still have to do some things in the house… very sorry. Hope to cu tmrw. Amor i Luz

10:39 pm checkme:
Arlene is cool. Maintain respect, I know her very well.

10:41 pm newgirl:
Oh no, Checkme, don’t go! I’m sad. I wanted to ask more about what you meant by this: There are few people who fall outside a family-social-control circle here in Aruba. LvR is one of them.

10:48 pm checkme:
new girl, you know, small society, extended families, no secrets, family knows everything. this guy has a bad profile, father into drugs, himself dealing, driving expensive cars, crashing them, not working, father killing himself because of a drug/alcohol induced depression. in short, no solid upbringing, wrong connections, careless, living above the law. somehow not getting caught. Bad boy waiting on the wall to hit him?
That’s what I meant.

10:50 pm new girl:
Wow, checkme. The guy sounds like trouble. Where’s LvR’s mother? Is she out of the picture?

10:52 pm checkme:
His mom is totally out of it.




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: finngirl on June 25, 2008, 06:48:34 AM
"I took the camera to Freddy’s house.
We delivered the camera to Freddy, and afterwards all four of us ate Chinese in the area of Freddy’s house. Freddy also lives in Montanja."
(Satish Kalpoe Suspect Statement June 24, 2005.)

Zedan Arambatzis – age 21 in 2005
Joran met Freddy Zedan Arambatzis when Freddy was 19, they met during a tournament at the racquetball club. (source:p. 1 Jorans book)
Freddy is a light colored latino from Venezuela that only spoke papi. (source: p. 1 Joran's book)
Freddy's English sucked (source p. 5 Joran's book)
I am the best friend and neighbor of Joran. We got to know each other about two years ago.(source: June 12 Freddy's statement as written in Joran's book)
Freddy lives behind Joran. (D-6/11)

19 Montanja Joran van der Sloot
232 Montanja Jaime Carrasquilla
7A Catiri Freddy Zedan Arambatziz

I have been thinking about Freddy, the light skinned Latino, from Venezuela, that only spoke Pap, while working on the Arambatzis post!

If Joran is speaking the truth, for once, his 'Freddy' is probably Aruban. But if Freddy Zedan was Venezuela he probably didn't speak Pap!

The Language
Spanish is the main language of Venezuela. However, Venezuelan Spanish differs in pronounciation from the Spanish spoken in Spain. There are also some variations in vocabulary. Venezuelans call their language castellano.

Arubagirl couldn't find 'Freddy's' house when he was arrested in August of 2005, Caps couldn't find 'Freddy's' house in 2008.

so what happened to Freddy's Montanja 39-F addy ...
listed in the buki di during august 2005?

sometimes I feel like someone has re-arranged the furniture
while I was sleeping and I wake up/head for the light switch
and stumble into something that wasn't in the way last night

we had real estate/for sale photos at one time
showing the Montanja townhouses numbered 39A thru G or H

couldn't find/didn't want to find: two different things

 :roll:



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 25, 2008, 07:21:58 AM
Finn...

Quote Finn….
if sim was somehow tied to Steve Croes,
perhaps posts were used to slant suspicion away from him
and suggest that he was dragged into something

sim very/very seldom mentions Steve
and appears sympathetic when mention is made ...
while beating fairly hard/steady on the Lorenzo/? Drum



I believe they were cousins…

Simian/Mirian pointed to Freddy to protect Steve



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 25, 2008, 07:38:31 AM
Freddy, Freddy, Freddy...I think the Montanja address was more his mother's address than his.  Kermit keeps leading us to the Catiri address anytime we venture to the Montanja address.  I may not have very good instincts about Shango but Kermit is usually right on target when he says something.  Freddy was supposed to be at Joran's that night.  The only reason he would have been there was to make a video.  Freddy was way too old to be having a sleepover with Joran...unless sleeping with someone was involved. JMO

Right Mum!

Simian protects Steve.
Shango protects Freddy.
Now put it together and you have your answers. Albeit, that involves a whole host of other people down the line.  :roll:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 25, 2008, 08:06:40 AM
"I took the camera to Freddy’s house.
We delivered the camera to Freddy, and afterwards all four of us ate Chinese in the area of Freddy’s house. Freddy also lives in Montanja."
(Satish Kalpoe Suspect Statement June 24, 2005.)

Zedan Arambatzis – age 21 in 2005
Joran met Freddy Zedan Arambatzis when Freddy was 19, they met during a tournament at the racquetball club. (source:p. 1 Jorans book)
Freddy is a light colored latino from Venezuela that only spoke papi. (source: p. 1 Joran's book)
Freddy's English sucked (source p. 5 Joran's book)
I am the best friend and neighbor of Joran. We got to know each other about two years ago.(source: June 12 Freddy's statement as written in Joran's book)
Freddy lives behind Joran. (D-6/11)

19 Montanja Joran van der Sloot
232 Montanja Jaime Carrasquilla
7A Catiri Freddy Zedan Arambatziz

I have been thinking about Freddy, the light skinned Latino, from Venezuela, that only spoke Pap, while working on the Arambatzis post!

If Joran is speaking the truth, for once, his 'Freddy' is probably Aruban. But if Freddy Zedan was Venezuela he probably didn't speak Pap!

The Language
Spanish is the main language of Venezuela. However, Venezuelan Spanish differs in pronounciation from the Spanish spoken in Spain. There are also some variations in vocabulary. Venezuelans call their language castellano.

Arubagirl couldn't find 'Freddy's' house when he was arrested in August of 2005, Caps couldn't find 'Freddy's' house in 2008.

so what happened to Freddy's Montanja 39-F addy ...
listed in the buki di during august 2005?

sometimes I feel like someone has re-arranged the furniture
while I was sleeping and I wake up/head for the light switch
and stumble into something that wasn't in the way last night

we had real estate/for sale photos at one time
showing the Montanja townhouses numbered 39A thru G or H

couldn't find/didn't want to find: two different things

 :roll:




Hi Finn….Any info on the address would be appreciated….TIA

Freddy Alexander Zedan-Arambatzis  aka Arends

For Lilian to have retained the Arambatzis once she married Mr Rodriguez, I would think it was her maiden name. She was listed as Dutch in the Chamber records for 2004 – this means she was either born in Holland or is Aruban, thus considered Dutch.

From research, the only Arambatzis found connected to Venezuela – Robby and Mayra Smalley. From Aruba – Lilian and Robby. (doing some more checking on this Robby to see if he is possibly the Robby from Venezuela). Caps’ database from Aruba, Zedan=0…Arambatzis=2

It appears the Arambatzis is a Greek name, and Mayra lived in Venezuela, daughter of a Greek father and a Dutch mother. Mayra is listed as white, and if in fact she is Ernesto’s mother, he may have been born out of wedlock in Venezuela, thus his being listed as Hispanic/Latino…Unless we can come up with another Arambatzis family in Venezuela, or a connection through the names below, neither Lilian or Freddy ‘fit’! (Minor point…I have not found that Pap is spoken in Venezuela, therefore the statement that Freddy is a light skinned Latino that only speaks Pap, is not possible if he is from Venezuela. Spanish is spoken there.)

Possible connections remaining between Freddy and Ernesto…IMO

ARAMBATZIS-RODRIGUEZ ALBERT, LILIAN REGINA

ARAMBATZIS PEREZ ROBBY GERARDUS – 51 years old-Venezuela

Arambatzis,Perez Bradenton, FL ... This is a listed address for Ernesto

Lilian Zedan – Los Angeles

Zedan – Florida

Rodriguez – through Sasha

Ramirez – may have a Venezuelan link to Ernesto

Prada...still looking


Link to research on the Arambatzis name…I would love for some-one to tie Freddy in with Ernesto, but with the info we had, weren't able to connect those dots!

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2973.0



       




         


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 25, 2008, 08:07:33 AM
Bablyon and casinos go together.  If you operate from the premise that Shango is mainly written to expose the entire gambling, drugs, porn situation on Aruba and how it connects to this case, the pieces will fall into place.  Shango was a response to Simian's information.  Simian and Checkme and even Shockthemonkey were giving out info that only leaks or those close to the investigation could have known.  As Finn girl has so astutely pointed out in context. The conversations of Shango were to get the FP posters attention away from the Simian/Checkme posts.  It is interesting when you read them to see that inkling of jealousy between them. 

For example:

Simian is hearing that J2k is implicating Steve Croes as being involved in this and Steve is part of your family...do you sit by and let it happen or do you try to tell someone that they shouldn't just look at your relatives but they should take a look at a person that was involved and has done this for a long time? So Simian says, "Hey, there is another person here and it is not my cousin/friend/family.  This is the person that can tell you what happened. He was at Joran's that night...he makes all the videos on the island or he makes the videos for another big player in this game.  I won't tolerate the PTB placing all the blame on my family/friend/cousin this time."

Then Shango watches this for a while and thinks, "Oops!  They are going to hang this on my brother/cousin/family now, because this Simian guy is telling them about what the ALE is thinking."  Shango knows there is a bigger picture and he wants the FP posters to see it too.  So Shango drops in and begins his diatribe on elders and Babylon.  He tells us about how this group has a scheme going that involves the casinos and powerful people on the island.  All the FP posters get intriqued and begin asking for Shango to update them and not Simian...voila!  No one is thinking about that 5th suspect any longer, they are chasing their tails trying figure out who dirty hand is.

Mission accomplished....everyone is confused and all are happy...for a while.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 25, 2008, 08:13:29 AM
Freddy, Freddy, Freddy...I think the Montanja address was more his mother's address than his.  Kermit keeps leading us to the Catiri address anytime we venture to the Montanja address.  I may not have very good instincts about Shango but Kermit is usually right on target when he says something.  Freddy was supposed to be at Joran's that night.  The only reason he would have been there was to make a video.  Freddy was way too old to be having a sleepover with Joran...unless sleeping with someone was involved. JMO

Right Mum!

Simian protects Steve.
Shango protects Freddy.
Now put it together and you have your answers. Albeit, that involves a whole host of other people down the line.  :roll:


Good Morning! I agree, I don't think the riddle could be as complicated as it is being made out to be....they were posting on the FP....

Just because I am a Shango dummy, doesn't mean everyone else is...LOL

So Armin is protecting cousin Steve...who would want to protect Freddy?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 25, 2008, 08:14:10 AM
Mum
Email me! LOL  I don't know which one works for you today.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 25, 2008, 08:23:26 AM
Freddy, Freddy, Freddy...I think the Montanja address was more his mother's address than his.  Kermit keeps leading us to the Catiri address anytime we venture to the Montanja address.  I may not have very good instincts about Shango but Kermit is usually right on target when he says something.  Freddy was supposed to be at Joran's that night.  The only reason he would have been there was to make a video.  Freddy was way too old to be having a sleepover with Joran...unless sleeping with someone was involved. JMO

Right Mum!

Simian protects Steve.
Shango protects Freddy.
Now put it together and you have your answers. Albeit, that involves a whole host of other people down the line.  :roll:


Good Morning! I agree, I don't think the riddle could be as complicated as it is being made out to be....they were posting on the FP....

Just because I am a Shango dummy, doesn't mean everyone else is...LOL

So Armin is protecting cousin Steve...who would want to protect Freddy?

If Freddy was this 5th suspect, then I would say it could be a family member.  If Shango wanted to show Simian that he isn't going to hang this on Freddy, he might tell just enough that Simian would realize that this Shango knows the details and that coming out  could jeopardize more than just Steve.  Maybe Shango was a warning that if you implicate this 5th person I will take everyone down because I know what happened and I know who is involved.  Now, this does not necessarily mean that Shango was related to the 5th suspect, he just looked at the possibilities and didn't like what he saw.  Another, possibility is Shango was relating what he was being told by someone and all Shango did was post it and did not write it.  That would mean Shango had no idea what the details were, just posted what he was told.  That opens a whole other can of worms.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 25, 2008, 08:24:37 AM
Thanks Finn for your post...I haven't read it all...but will get back to it later...

Still looking for the revelation that Ernesto was Freddy's brother...

SandraK...cuz - Lissette in the US...aunt, Rebeca in Venezeula

LOL...Obviously not the one that I tried to send when I saw you were up!!!



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on June 25, 2008, 08:28:24 AM
ARAWAK (ARUBA) AND BABYLONIAN (CASINO) INVOLVEMENT:  Arawaks don't like Babylonian involvement...

8:28 AM the grey whisper said...
Simian and Koko are just as their handles imply- low level primates making noise to distract... the real players at this masquerade ball are smarter, but less deft of foot than they may believe.  Are the sentries really asleep at the watchtower? The figure at this ball may turn lead to gold, but he's no prince charming



Google DUTCHCO ARUBA . It is an investment company OWNED BY THE GOVERNMENT OF ARUBA.
Google GLOBAL CASINOS INC. (GLOBAL ENTERTAINMENT IND?) Find directors, board members, etc.
Google Aruba Suriname Casino and Colombia Casino.

DUTCHCO:
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_hb6634/is_200310/ai_n26492715
Carlson buys resort.(ARUBA)(Carlson Hotels Worldwide)(Radisson Aruba Resort & Casino)(Brief Article)
Caribbean Update,  October, 2003

Carlson Hotels Worldwide, parent company of Radisson Hotels & Resorts, on Aug. 18 announced it has acquired full ownership of the company-managed Radisson Aruba Resort & Casino from its investment partner Dutchco, a company owned by the Government of Aruba. Together, the partners completed a two-year US$55 million transformation of the island's ...http://www.allbusiness.com/travel-hospitality-tourism/destinations/6919704-1.html

Global Casinos Inc. Announces Major Casino Expansionin the Radisson Hotel in Aruba.
Publication: Business Wire
Date: Monday, April 27 1998

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COLORADO SPRINGS, Colo.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--April 27, 1998--Global Casinos, Inc. (NASDAQ: GBCS) announced today that it has reached an agreement with representatives of the government of Aruba and Dutchco, the hotel's owner, for a new 20 year casino lease in the Radisson Hotel in Aruba.



http://www.secinfo.com/duRaw.69.htm


   (a)  On December 23, 1998, Global Casinos, Inc. (the "Company") completed
the disposition of two separate business operations.                           
      Effective December 23, 1998, the Company completed the disposition
of its discontinued casino operations on the island of Aruba. The Company had  previously announced that the Casino Masquerade  located in the Radisson Aruba Carribean Hotel on the island of Aruba had been closed effective February 28,  1998 in order to undergo renovations. Due to protracted delays in completing   the renovations and other adverse business circumstances, the Company was able  to negotiate an early termination of the remaining term on its casino lease.   
     Under the terms of the Settlement Agreement with Dutchco N.V., an Aruban limited liability company, and Aruba Carribean Hotel Limited Partnership, as landlord, the Company agreed to terminate the lease in consideration of a cash payment in the amount of $400,000 and the issuance to the Company of trade credits having an aggregate face value of $600,000.
   The trade credits can be used at the Aruba Carribean Hotel (the "Hotel") for a six year period beginning January 1, 2000 and ending December 31, 2005, usable at the rate of $100,000 per year.  The Hotel credits can be used against room rates as well as food and beverage charges, subject to certain limitations.                                                           


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 25, 2008, 08:57:34 AM
Found this in the Natalee thread and saw so many possibilities in it I brought it over.  Simian's 5th suspect....Colombo's choice...Paulus.  This would be the alibi, so tight, so tight.  If you are on video as being in the casino until 4 in the morning, you can not possibly be out killing and disappearing Natalee.  The important thing would be to know how many times Paulus had to answer his cell phone while sitting there  in the casino and if his other two kids were indeed at home, who was looking out for them?  If the ALE knew this alibi was Paulus' and it concerned the casino, why even arrest Paulus?  With an alibi like that an arrest is futile.  It opens more questions with little answers but is interesting anyway.

Buckeye
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #760 6/22
« Reply #625 on: Today at 06:00:53 AM »
   Reply with quoteQuote
Have to go, but this was posted by Jonathan45 at BFN, yesterday.

For me this Guido scenario belongs to the greyzone of Joran's beachlie. It is an important scenario which Fierljepper introduced here. Was Guido Joran's helping hand the night Natalee vanished ?
In my own bike scenario I dislike to enter the greyzone, but I had to and have to because of the possible connections in making this case a no body no case one.
I reject Guido's role as Joran's  helping hand in disposing off Natalees body. Why would Joran behave like he does now for more than 3 years when they both know that her body never can be found ?
For me Guido is in this case involved because of Paulus alibi that night. Paulus wasn't asleep, but playing in the casino till around 4.00am that night, when a neigbour [witness] saw his car coming home. Did Paulus payed Guido to silence his lips about Paulus' where abouts that night ? And did Joran knows about this deal between Guido and his dad ? Yes he does from day 1. Joran can blackmail his dad and he did make Guido a suspect.
Paulus is also a great liar. Does Anita knows about Paulus nightly [for the first time] casino visit ?
Guido knows it, that's for sure and Anita wasn't on the island when it all occured.


Does anyone remember this?  I do remember something about the car returning.  Back later.  TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 25, 2008, 09:13:53 AM
Found this in the Natalee thread and saw so many possibilities in it I brought it over.  Simian's 5th suspect....Colombo's choice...Paulus.  This would be the alibi, so tight, so tight.  If you are on video as being in the casino until 4 in the morning, you can not possibly be out killing and disappearing Natalee.  The important thing would be to know how many times Paulus had to answer his cell phone while sitting there  in the casino and if his other two kids were indeed at home, who was looking out for them?  If the ALE knew this alibi was Paulus' and it concerned the casino, why even arrest Paulus?  With an alibi like that an arrest is futile.  It opens more questions with little answers but is interesting anyway.

Buckeye
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #760 6/22
« Reply #625 on: Today at 06:00:53 AM »
   Reply with quoteQuote
Have to go, but this was posted by Jonathan45 at BFN, yesterday.

For me this Guido scenario belongs to the greyzone of Joran's beachlie. It is an important scenario which Fierljepper introduced here. Was Guido Joran's helping hand the night Natalee vanished ?
In my own bike scenario I dislike to enter the greyzone, but I had to and have to because of the possible connections in making this case a no body no case one.
I reject Guido's role as Joran's  helping hand in disposing off Natalees body. Why would Joran behave like he does now for more than 3 years when they both know that her body never can be found ?
For me Guido is in this case involved because of Paulus alibi that night. Paulus wasn't asleep, but playing in the casino till around 4.00am that night, when a neigbour [witness] saw his car coming home. Did Paulus payed Guido to silence his lips about Paulus' where abouts that night ? And did Joran knows about this deal between Guido and his dad ? Yes he does from day 1. Joran can blackmail his dad and he did make Guido a suspect.
Paulus is also a great liar. Does Anita knows about Paulus nightly [for the first time] casino visit ?
Guido knows it, that's for sure and Anita wasn't on the island when it all occured.


Does anyone remember this?  I do remember something about the car returning.  Back later.  TIA



IIRC it was reported that Paulus was arrested to make Joran spill everything. I think this came from Rudy Croes! Well Joran refused to talk on 6/24 and came back later with all about his sex life that ALE was interested in...what could have happened to lead to those conversations from ALE?

And what about...'Who said the alibi played for the Sloots?' How does that fit? And 'If you were sleeping, who answered your phone at 2 in the morning?' Does this have anything to do with Paulus having Anita's phone? Did Paulus loose his that night? Was it the one found at the lighthouse, that Anita said was Val's. If Val was in the Netherlands, did some-one else have Val's phone?  Sorry the phones are like the shoes at times...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Blonde on June 25, 2008, 10:04:09 AM

Who is DirtyHand? Someone in the mob or a terrorist.  Someone we all thought was deceased now alive and well, hiding on a small island in a house 'by the haystack' and comes from Santa Marta. Well, now he's a broken man, and went back to Babylon. Is Babylon Iraq or is it Netherlands? 

Poochy, we really need to know if Carlos Ledher is alive or dead.

Rob this guy  Carlos Lehder - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Blonde on June 25, 2008, 10:05:46 AM
Sorry here's the link  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlos_Lehder


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Pita on June 25, 2008, 10:17:25 AM
Carlos Lehder Myspace

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=203777444


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 25, 2008, 10:23:42 AM

Who is DirtyHand? Someone in the mob or a terrorist.  Someone we all thought was deceased now alive and well, hiding on a small island in a house 'by the haystack' and comes from Santa Marta. Well, now he's a broken man, and went back to Babylon. Is Babylon Iraq or is it Netherlands? 

Poochy, we really need to know if Carlos Ledher is alive or dead.

Rob this guy  Carlos Lehder - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Not sure that I agree with the interpretation of once dead...now alive, but if I did, I again think of Judge Kuiperdal, he was a Judge on Aruba, and for some reason the Judges were brought in from Curacao. We know it wasn't for impartiality...maybe Judge Kuiperdal would have been exposed if it stayed with the Aruban judges.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 25, 2008, 05:27:49 PM

Who is DirtyHand? Someone in the mob or a terrorist.  Someone we all thought was deceased now alive and well, hiding on a small island in a house 'by the haystack' and comes from Santa Marta. Well, now he's a broken man, and went back to Babylon. Is Babylon Iraq or is it Netherlands? 

Poochy, we really need to know if Carlos Ledher is alive or dead.

Rob this guy  Carlos Lehder - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Not sure that I agree with the interpretation of once dead...now alive, but if I did, I again think of Judge Kuiperdal, he was a Judge on Aruba, and for some reason the Judges were brought in from Curacao. We know it wasn't for impartiality...maybe Judge Kuiperdal would have been exposed if it stayed with the Aruban judges.



Is Judge Kuiperdal the one with the light hair in the sunglasses and sport coat?  I like your thoughts about Freddy speaking Pap and not being from Venezuela.  I have mentioned several times the posssiblity of Arambatzis being a maiden name.  Freddy and Ernesto don't look very much alike and they could easily have different fathers, neither of whom their mother was married to.  I considered this when we talked about the expense of Ernesto's private school education in Florida and Freddy's education in the local high school.  Who paid for Ernesto's education?  Was it a paternity obligation?  Ernesto's MySpace also says that he's a college graduate.  Where?  Who are the fathers of these two?  This could throw a very important piece into the coverup motivations and the obvious protection of Freddy.  Do we have a connection on the island who could check the high school yearbooks for Freddy's picture and the name that he was using at that time?  Freddy looks more like Karen Martina than he looks like Ernesto, and we can't find Karen either.  Does anyone have a picture of Freddy's "sister"?  There are several grils named Gish on MySpace and I don't know which one she is.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: vms on June 25, 2008, 05:45:34 PM
Karen:

http://www.myspace.com/karenmartina


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 25, 2008, 05:49:09 PM
This afternoon, I was playing with the June 26th and 27th Shango/Simian posts and I broke them down into very plain English with some of the information that we have.  Feel free to add to it any thoughts that anyone might have.  When it's all broken down, it really isn't very cryptic or difficult to understand.  I don't know who His Lordship is.

Sat June 25
7:59 pm simian:
The media flashed the news. Even Jan van der Straaten denied he knew. The smoke will clear soon. Paulus can’t deny. Joran can’t talk.

2:58 pm simian:
Steve Croes’  statement was not part of the plan 
3:09 pm shango:
Armin, who else plays in the orchestra? A Babylonian…. =
"I'm here and I know as much as you do, perhaps more ...
please enlighten our readers" (this sounds like someone in the news or broadcast business)
3:18 pm simian:
The alibi needs to be broken. Chemaly, Renfro, Arendz, Briezen, Joran, Satish, Deepak, Guido, Steve Croes, Freddy, Paulus, LVR, etc.   need to be pressured. They have seen from the corners of their eyes. Matty Apts. was dusted.
3:18 pm shango:
Armin, why was the video from the Matty Apts. not used to open the Sumerians Door?
3:26 pm shango:
Armin, his lordship did not bring the expected video, the door never existed.
3:30 pm shango:
Armin, his lordship did not bring the video for the Arubans.
3:33 pm shango:
Armin, His Lordship did not bring the video/DNA found in the car, it did not exist.
3:40 pm shango:
The video/DNA does not exist .
4:04 pm simian:
The wire has been shaken. The potential singing tattle-tale (Paulus) has left.
4:12 pm shango:
The video of truth did not exist. The response has already begun.
4:50 pm shango:
We must have a sacrifice - Joran. Hide Deutekom. Spread some infromation!
4:55 pm shango:
If the Americans see Deutekom, many homes/families will fall. Casinos will fall. We must have a sacrifice to feed the Americans. They will go back to the USA without Natalee.
4:58 pm shango:
Halls of the casinos may suddenly twist to accomodate Americans walking in the web of deceit.
No Natalee, but many answers. Better twisted hallways than fallen houses.
5:02 pm shango:
Do not listen to American women (Greta, Grace?) who cast shadows on the walls of doubt…. There will be a sacrifice. The Americans will be happy. The casino businesses won’t fall and destroy the Aruban families. There will be a sacrifice. Soon many will see false information. Americans will go back to the USA. But first we need the sacrifice.
5:04 pm shango:
Prepare the news flashes. We need a sacrifice. A well-to-do casino-related person. Young Joran van der Sloot.
6:30 pm shango:
Shango is not a Simian Doppleganger and has his own messengers.
8:04 pm shango:
Joran van der Sloot shall be the sacrifice for the Arubans and the Americans. All will sit around the news broadcasts and feast on Joran van der Sloot. The powers that be are talking. Dueterkom is alive and well.
9:27 pm simian:
Paulus had to come clean. He knows what damage he had caused.
Armin said to not shake the wire, 'cause the bird would fly away. Armin  would never pose. 
9:30 pm shango:
Who knows what story Paulus will tell.
9:32 pm shango:
His lordship is there to preserve the Casino culture, not Paulus. Remember Deutekom
9:34 pm shango:
The struggle between the casino culture and the Arubans still remains hidden. The Arubans awaited the video/DNA.
His lordship said no. The door to truth remains closed. They are preparing the news flashes.
9:36 pm simian:
Everything the gamblers knew was also on the casino surveillance videos. They knew the girl. She spent her nights playing at their tables.
9:43 pm shango:
Did the casino people like to make movies? From the tears, a new river will spring forth…. 
9:48 pm simian:
Joran told the Kalpoes that he didn’t need their help anymore. This was very early in the morning. The confrontation was brutal. So who came when he called on the phone? Who switched placesand sent him home? (Paulus or LVR?) People…He bit his tongue instead of talking. The boy’s fear runs deep. They accuse him to be Bifrons.
10:24 pm simian:
The boy is not strong. He is too afraid of the consequences. He doesn’t want to be made a cafone.
The third act needs to be played and the Americans will be heroes. This is all a “lugubrious game” to them.
They were all at the Matty Apts. and all of them are turning their heads. One of them needs to be pinched/pressured.
10:26 pm simian:
Armin only speaks for himself.
10:56 pm shango:
Armin knows his Lordship did not have a video/DNA to open the door to truth.
10:59 pm simian:
The package is still due.
11:01 pm simian:
If the door to truth is to be opened with that video or evidence, it will be tomorrow or forever remained closed.
11:05 pm shango:
Deutekom has worked for the powerful people for a long time
11:09 pm simian:
Mito Croes is on the line. The casino people know what happened, but their hands are tied.
They do not run the legal system. Van der Straaten will never bring the evidence from the Hague. The trias works infallibly.
The party goers (above) need to be pinched, but no one wants to be the cafone. Including Joran. Too much is at stake and he is not strong.
He is biting his tongue so he won’t be able to speak. So afraid he is. 
11:12 pm shango:
Even released suspects talk. If the video or DNA evidence does not arrive tomorrow, that door to truth will remain closed.
11:19 pm simian:
The Simian asks that his words not be confused with anyone else’s.
11:23 pm simian:
Who took Joran to the party? Who took him home? Therein lies the third act. Look up the Simian’s posts from days ago. 
11:37 pm simian:
How can so many gamblers be wrong about the girl? This is unbelievable. The casino owners need to pinch the participants. That will need to happen tomorrow. The Simian is leaving.
12:39 am simian:
Watch tomorrow, but do not speak, and it will all unfold before you.
12:54 am simian:
I am leaving. I am done.
12:30 am Babalu:
ConcernedUK, no, I guess he is head of some local official corps. He is the guy that knows everything and that has been in the house of Babylonians NOT seeking pleasure for himself, so Shango says.So maybe he went to search for Natalee and he is the chief of Polis.     (The last part of this statement looks like a hypothetical phrase.  I think Shango later refers to the beginning of this sentence)
4:00 am shango:
Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon with his 12:30 posting.
9:13 am simian:
Lack of evidence is not proof of innocence. The Americans are looking everywhere, but the land and waters are hard to search. The casino owners need to keep an eye on the Americans. The process must be protected. The partiers need to be pinched.
10:51 am simian:
The casino people and the Americans have swarmed the ponds. The dead dogs are stinking.
10:59 am simian:
The American’ steel and wires are screaming. The pond is large, deep and too wide, but they are sure there is something on their computer/scan screen. The casino people will be proven right. All along they were right. The story given by the gamblers might check out after all.
11:14 am simian:
The road from the boy’s home leads to the Manserat Pond. Look for Noord and look for Moko. The Americans are close. They are not real fast, they will creep by the inch. It’s deep and wide. The powerful casino owners need this, before time runs out
11:33 am simian:
Find Aruba. Look for Noord. Look for Montaña. Look for Moko. Let your fingers connect the dots.
The Americans are deeper into the water recovery. The vultures are hanging around and are ready to eat what the Americans will find. Hang on to your TVs. The Simian doesn’t want to be right because this will be awful.
11:37 am simian:
Her decapitated body to be found. Her head to wash up on shore later.
11:39 am simian:
Why does anyone want to be the Simian’s double. The Simian finds that to be counter productive.
11:46 am simian:
I have not left. I do not want to be copied however and would like to stay and speak.
11:58 am simian:
They have found her. Watch your news stations for this one. I said this was to happen. You can praise The Simian later.
12:08 pm simian: 
THEY FOUND HER BODY!!
12:11 pm
he said to keep watching the news, and that he apologizes for the confusion, but he is tired of people trying to impersonate him
 12:12 pm shango:
Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon with his 12:30 AM posting.
If the cowboys do not find Natalee today, it will not be found
12:26 pm shango:
Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon with his 12:30 AM posting.
Simian your immitation is with us
12:28 pm shango:
Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon with his 12:30 AM posting
9:41 pm shango:
 Location of the Matty Apts
One straight path
to the house of Rave,
while of gold bricks
the road is not paved,
answers mysterious lie within
magical letters which spell sin
XTC DNA   
9:44 pm shango:
Babalu opened a window looking into the casino world on his 12:30 A.M. Post. Deutekom is alive
9:46 pm shango:
Shango said the video/DNA/evidence sent to the Hague did not exist
that door to truth remains closed
unless they enter the Matty Apartments
9:48 pm shango:
Babalu knew who dirty hand was at half past 12
10:30 pm drax:
Joran and the Kalpoes weren’t on the beach?
10:32 pm shango:
THE DRAX SCORES
10:45 pm shango:
Windows looking onto the casino world are being opened by the ThreadSurfers. SM?
11:04 pm shango:
Babalu opened a window looking onto Babylon with his 12:30 A.M. post.
11:13 pm shango:
 11:48 pm shango:
The Simian was incorrect about the evidence from the Hague. I told the Simian, but the Simian would not listen.
The simian is not a simian, but a pre-historic man (Neanderthal?)
11:52 pm shango:
Foreign bloggers are oblivious to the underworld parties and the participants. Without exposure, the Arubans will deceive the Americans, they will leave without Natalee.
12:04 am shango:
The heads of the casino culture have told the story for the Aruban press.
The story which holds the answers lies within the underworld parties
the Americans will smile sweetly as the news tells the false story
backs turned to the underworld parties
never hearing a single clue
from the evil reality
12:11 am shango:
All the Arubans know the underworld party where the evil/ecstacy is..
12:14 am shango:
How those innocent young women enter the trap with sweet propositions.
12:23 am shango:
Follow the clues
to the evil place
where the children of the casino culture
and the Arubans
meet secretly.
In the party.
The perpetrators
shall be exposed.
The casinos have video surveillance tapes.
Tell the Americans! 
12:28 am shango:
Not all perpetrators leave their homes.
12:37 am shango:
Yliana and Subdude have both opened windows which look into the heart of babylon
do not stray from your paths
you hold the key in hand  - talking about kids going to wild  parties and raves
12:39 am shango:
The bloggers are opening the door to the casino underworld
be careful of the people there
Deuterkom does not have them under control
but he can enter their turf
tell the Amricans
1:32 am shango:
For the doubters: You do not need to see a grain of sand in your eye to know it is there.  Do you need to see the graft and corruption to know that it is there?
1:43 am simian: 
The Simian has a handicap of 12.
1:52 am simian:
The Simian says that The Simian only reports developments ahead of time. The Simian thinks what is going on is shameless. Playing with feelings.
The Simian’s umbilical is buried close to the heart of the island. NOBODY EVER try to put us down. The Simian hates what he has been reading.
All things must pass.  (Armin is an Aruban. Do not put Aruba down)
1:55 am shango:
Find the music. Only David left the den alive
2:01 am simian:
The Simian is getting out. Knows Shango, knows Shock me, knows Checkme. Do not underestimate the power of the ping (insult?). Shango is a dumb copycat. Maybe the Simian should place a call on you. (call the police) Get you 8 days with a hole to take a dump in. (Jail?) Complementary peanut butter on stale bread for you, you fool. The Simian is angry. Over and out. (sympathy for Steve Cores)
2:09 am simian:
The Simian is disappointed. The Simian repeats himself seldom, but likes to say he only reports ahead of time. The clues were solely to avoid implicating sources. Never to hurt the feeling of the readers.
Seeing how this has been used to mislead people, Armin will again say that he will retire.
2:18 am simian:
f*** the poetry. Armin Solognier is a frenchman. Blue blood if you should know.
2:21 am simian:
The Simian doesn’t make predictions. Only gives the group information ahead of time. Predictions are for fools. This is the Simian.
No me hagan mofa. Estoy molesto por las bobedades de Shango y Shock y Checkme. Se creen, pero no son.
translation: I will not be mocked. I am bothered by the bobedades (?) of Shango and Shock and Checkme.  They [are] believe[d], but should not [be].
2:23 am shango:
?
2:24 am shango:
This Simian is not the Simian. It is a Doppleganger.
2:27 am shango:
Crypticism leads to tributaries of thought  which would not usually leave the MainStream.
2:28 am simian:
Cabron seras tu, pendejo. Yo trato de pasar la informacion antes de tiempo, pero Uds. no entienden y creen que todo se soluciona por ser gringo. No hago predicciones y tampoco nunca dije que sabía que paso esa noche.
Je ne compris pas quesque tu dire. Que je suis une femme? La vie n’est pas comment tu pense.
translation: You're the bitch, asshole.  I try to pass the information ahead of time, but you do not understand and think that everything is solved, being a foreigner.  I do not make predictions and I never knew what happened that night.
I don't understand what you're saying. You think I'm a woman? Life is not what you think it is.
2:32 am simian:
Shango, you have been pinged. No pone bo mes na liña. E cosnan cu bo a papia awe por haci’bo dolor mañan. Cera bo boca y no papia di loke bo no sa. Bai drumi, paso ta laat.
Hopi hende ta lesa loke bo ta skibi. Nan lanta na porta di bo cas mañan, no spanta.
translation: Shango, get real, do not place yourself at the center. The things you say today can cause sorrow tomorrow. Close your mouth and do not talk of things you know nothing about. Go to sleep, it is late.
Many people are reading the things you are writing. They arrive/appear at the door of your house tomorrow, not spanta.
2:45 am shango:
Shango finds it very humorous (and quite fitting) that a frenchman would assume the monniker of a monkey.
2:50 am simian:
As opposed to? Crack a book some time…
2:50 am shango:
Joran and the Kalpoes did not build castles in the sand
they lost to the adults
Deutekom knows
Paulus knows
and so do the Arubans
the Americans are far from the casino culture
the party scene shall remain hidden to all but the Arubans and the adult men
2:53 am simian:
Shango, whenever you think you can get on the inside of the real Aruban society give me a sign, you probably were picking up the trash.
You have been pinged. Bai drumi! Ta laat caba.
translation: Go to sleep! It is late.
2:59 am shango:
The Simian Doppleganger is upset because the Arubans are hiding the truth from the Americans
Deutekom knows
Simian knows
The Simian stated for 2 days, the video/evidence would come from the hague the next day
Shango said no two times
Is Simian a DirtyHand too
Has the Simian played with the adult males
in the houses of prostitution and drugs
where the innocent women are lured?
Has the Simian, primate that he is, fed with the other animals?
Back ye fetid mongrel, as the 46th are you; delegate of the 7th level of inferno,
not birthed, but spewed from the dark chasm of a nightmare!
3:02 am simian:
Yo solo trato de pasar informacion antes de que se presente en las noticias. Primero, porque no se dicen las como se deben en Fox News o en CNN.
Sinembargo me encuentro ahora con un idiota que se cree hacer predicciones de cosas que no sabe. Alavez, claramente yo tampoco por no haber estado alli. Una vez mas yo solo paso informacion que tengo de gente que estan conectados en la sociedad Arubana.
Estoy muy disgustado hoy de leer como esta idiota que se hace llamar Shango esta jugando con los sentimientos de estos gringos y alavez Nancy Grace hablar de situaciones que ella ni siquiera entiende.
translation: I just try to pass information before it is presented in the news. First, because they do not say as they must in Fox News or Cnn. [more like: Mainly, because they do not report it as they should on Fox/CNN]
However now I encounter an idiot/am seen as an idiot to make/be making predictions of things we do not know. At the same time, clearly, I don't know, not having been there. Once again I only pass information I have from people who are connected in Aruban society.
I am very upset to read today as this idiot calling itself Shango is playing with the feelings of these gringos and at the same time Nancy Grace talks about situations that she does not even understand.
3:06 am shango:
Information the Simian left for 2 days was incorrect
His lordship brought nothing from the Hague
the simian listens to whisperings of the Arubans foolishly thinking he is an insider.
3:10 am simian:
Shango cannot understand PAPIAMENTO, otheriwse he would have already taken notice that he has been insulted.
If you really know more, you should spent the 8 days in jail eating peanut butter on stale bread with some cold tea. Just like Steve Croes.
10:17 am simian:
hello news from the seas will rise today
1:31 pm simian:
Tides are high
Simian–
What’s going on?




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: vms on June 25, 2008, 06:25:29 PM
Sorry, SS, I had to reboot...

I think Mum found a "Ghis" that she thought might be the same one.
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a398/vms58/Freddy.jpg)



Sasha in pink.
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a398/vms58/FreddywithSasha.jpg)



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on June 25, 2008, 06:36:47 PM
http://www.ipsn.org/lolli1.html

Acting through his underboss, Rocco Ernest Infelise, head of one of the largest "street crews" in Chicago, Ferriola directed Jahoda to lure 51-year-old Robert Heyden Plummer to the outfit's elegantly appointed "Murder Mansion" in northern Libertyville Township. The secluded Lake County mansion in the woods once belonged to a local millionaire, Bruce Rouse, and his wife, Darlene, until they were brutally murdered in 1980. Their case was never solved. The mob bought up acreage and spent $50,000 converting the former residence into a high stakes casino that employed eighteen full-time people (all "well-fed") to accommodate the gambling high rollers (ROLLERS) and fun- loving clientele who parked their cars in the rear. (lions which "play") Reportedly, the outfit raked in $400,000 for just fifteen nights of casino gambling (gold bricks). According to Jahoda, political protection was supplied by former Lake County Sheriff Tom Brown (dirty hand), whose elected term spanned 1978 - 1982.

The Murder Mansion was an appropriate setting for what Rocky Infelise had in mind. He told the skittish Jahoda a few short hours before a well-planned murder to lead the unsuspecting Bobby Plummer up the flight of stairs to the second-floor casino and "just keep going." Plummer was a "revenue collector" for Ferriola, and a gambler of long standing in the northern suburbs. He also operated the Front Runner Messenger Service, a horse-betting parlor in Highwood belonging to Michael Posner, a protégé of Ferriola and a kingpin in Lake County mob vice operations. Plummer, of north suburban Lake Forest, was attacked on the stairway and savagely beaten to death. His body was found in the trunk of his wife's Lincoln Continental in a Mundelein Holiday Inn parking lot.



COLUMBO...Do you have Michael Posner's full name and aliases? If I need a break from Florida, I would like to visit Chicago. TIA   ::MonkeyHaHa::


Herb Goldstein (or something like that)
House with the Path
But not of Gold


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Rob on June 25, 2008, 06:53:27 PM
Carlos Lehder Myspace

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=203777444

Thanks Pita and Blonde,

I thought he died in a airplane wreck during a prison transfer.

btw - a drug lord with a myspace?!!?!?! Now I've seen it all.  ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Helen Back on June 25, 2008, 07:00:24 PM
http://www.ipsn.org/lolli1.html

Acting through his underboss, Rocco Ernest Infelise, head of one of the largest "street crews" in Chicago, Ferriola directed Jahoda to lure 51-year-old Robert Heyden Plummer to the outfit's elegantly appointed "Murder Mansion" in northern Libertyville Township. The secluded Lake County mansion in the woods once belonged to a local millionaire, Bruce Rouse, and his wife, Darlene, until they were brutally murdered in 1980. Their case was never solved. The mob bought up acreage and spent $50,000 converting the former residence into a high stakes casino that employed eighteen full-time people (all "well-fed") to accommodate the gambling high rollers (ROLLERS) and fun- loving clientele who parked their cars in the rear. (lions which "play") Reportedly, the outfit raked in $400,000 for just fifteen nights of casino gambling (gold bricks). According to Jahoda, political protection was supplied by former Lake County Sheriff Tom Brown (dirty hand), whose elected term spanned 1978 - 1982.

The Murder Mansion was an appropriate setting for what Rocky Infelise had in mind. He told the skittish Jahoda a few short hours before a well-planned murder to lead the unsuspecting Bobby Plummer up the flight of stairs to the second-floor casino and "just keep going." Plummer was a "revenue collector" for Ferriola, and a gambler of long standing in the northern suburbs. He also operated the Front Runner Messenger Service, a horse-betting parlor in Highwood belonging to Michael Posner, a protégé of Ferriola and a kingpin in Lake County mob vice operations. Plummer, of north suburban Lake Forest, was attacked on the stairway and savagely beaten to death. His body was found in the trunk of his wife's Lincoln Continental in a Mundelein Holiday Inn parking lot.



COLUMBO...Do you have Michael Posner's full name and aliases? If I need a break from Florida, I would like to visit Chicago. TIA   ::MonkeyHaHa::


Herb Goldstein (or something like that)
House with the Path
But not of Gold

I think it's Michael Posner aka Michael Rubins and Irving Goldstein. ::MonkeyWink::



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 25, 2008, 07:44:52 PM
Thanks VMS!  Karen Martina is now on MySpace as Paulina in Curacao.  Curacao would make sense.  I found all of those obituaries last week from Curacao that named Wilfred Martina who is the man that we learned was the father of Freddy Martina.  There were a few of the regular Arubans, but many of the faces were new.  Valentijn is one of her friends.

http://www.myspace.com/karenmartina


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 25, 2008, 08:07:38 PM
OK LaLa's get your pencils ready.

Let's just assume that Freddy and Ernesto are half brothers, both born out of wedlock with the name Arambatzis.  Could I even dare to suggest that Ernesto, with his expensive private education, might be the illegitimate son of a wealthy Aruban citizen and that may be why he also has a link to the Florida neighborhood?  Shango could be protecting Freddy because he's Ernesto's sibling.


I'm sorry LaLa's, I'm not trying to give you palpatations.  It's just a thought.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on June 25, 2008, 10:16:02 PM
http://www.ipsn.org/lolli1.html

Acting through his underboss, Rocco Ernest Infelise, head of one of the largest "street crews" in Chicago, Ferriola directed Jahoda to lure 51-year-old Robert Heyden Plummer to the outfit's elegantly appointed "Murder Mansion" in northern Libertyville Township. The secluded Lake County mansion in the woods once belonged to a local millionaire, Bruce Rouse, and his wife, Darlene, until they were brutally murdered in 1980. Their case was never solved. The mob bought up acreage and spent $50,000 converting the former residence into a high stakes casino that employed eighteen full-time people (all "well-fed") to accommodate the gambling high rollers (ROLLERS) and fun- loving clientele who parked their cars in the rear. (lions which "play") Reportedly, the outfit raked in $400,000 for just fifteen nights of casino gambling (gold bricks). According to Jahoda, political protection was supplied by former Lake County Sheriff Tom Brown (dirty hand), whose elected term spanned 1978 - 1982.

The Murder Mansion was an appropriate setting for what Rocky Infelise had in mind. He told the skittish Jahoda a few short hours before a well-planned murder to lead the unsuspecting Bobby Plummer up the flight of stairs to the second-floor casino and "just keep going." Plummer was a "revenue collector" for Ferriola, and a gambler of long standing in the northern suburbs. He also operated the Front Runner Messenger Service, a horse-betting parlor in Highwood belonging to Michael Posner, a protégé of Ferriola and a kingpin in Lake County mob vice operations. Plummer, of north suburban Lake Forest, was attacked on the stairway and savagely beaten to death. His body was found in the trunk of his wife's Lincoln Continental in a Mundelein Holiday Inn parking lot.


Hey Colombo - rehasing and revising an old theory based on your above post - please provide comments TIA!

Deepak takes a 'bath' and arrives at C&C 30 min before closing. Does nothing but get a 'yard' drink, and then goes to the car and sits in it with the door open. Why clean up to play cab driver? Joran is an addicted gambler. He leaves one casino, goes home to do some school work at 11pm, then sneaks out to go to just C&C? He's at C&C to get 'lucky', then has plans to gamble. Before C&C that night he called several of his other gambler buddies (Jaime, Guido, etc) to hitch a ride to C&C and then to one of the 'smaller casino's, like the one you mention in the article above. Maybe some met him there at this place, but just didn't give him a ride there (they need to be pinched - they all saw out of the corners of their eyes). Maybe there is also horse betting at this makeshift casino ("...There are no donkeys or mules [IMPLYING NO DRUGS OR DRUG RUNNERS] in chess only horses..." )

Codetalkers say Natalee enjoyed sitting at the casino tables ("...She was in the casino most of the days..) Joran takes her to a small casino out by Hooiberg. I don't know the map of Aruba well, while tons have been posted here, but the lighthouse story could be made up because in one of the Kalpoe statements he mentions seeing two vehicles - two that could have easily identified where he was at a particular time that night. They take a road from the lighthouse to this house ("until the house with the path but not of gold is entered"). This house could be a converted casino/rave joint. A place where the sons of elders (Guido, GVC, Koen, Sander, Joran, Dompig's son, etc) and the arawaks gamble together. Who owns this gambling house? A CASINO OWNER BABYLONIAN OR THE SON OF ONE. THE CARD THAT WAS BEING HELD. Kalpoes leave Joran and Natalee at this gambling house - most likely they are bored of playing cheuffer. Other gamblers can give Joran a ride back (or is this casino near Jorans house?)  But then something bad happens - the LIONS (could this be the bloods/crips on Aruba?) arrive at this house/rave/casino. They see a pretty young tipsy blonde and tell Joran to scram. Maybe taking his sneaker (or two). The answer lies on the stairway. Hooiberg has a stairway. "Look by the haystack (Hooiberg) in the small hours. They live in the conuco, but they are the only ones who can open the palace doors". Could the ones who live in the conuco be the arawaks that the elders kids play with? But the Arawaks are afraid of Dirtyhand. The arawaks who were also at the gambling house. They can crack open the case (palace = legal system) but are afraid. Gamblers are afraid of DirtyHand, Arawaks scared of Dirtyhand. Chewed up tongue doesn't want to be a cafone (snitch). He knows the consequences.  Paulus picks up Joran at 4am.  Casino house owner calls his dad. One was late for school, the other was on time for school. Two fathers, two sons. and a Dirtyhand gang leader they are all afraid of. Joran also afraid of Babylon father and son (mob perhaps). "It was a simple party at his house. He was there the whole time".

Could dirtyhand be a crips/blood gang leader? Was a call traced from Hooiberg to Santa Marta? Are we dealing with Colombian gangs?

Merian Ernest   7/13/05 5:51 pm
Find Aruba. Find the Haystack. Find Santa Marta. Trace with your finger what the Antenna has spoken about. Unleash the dogs. Inch by inch…grid by grid.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on June 25, 2008, 10:35:43 PM
Who was this person in 2003?

http://www.streetgangs.com/billboard/viewtopic.php?f=281&t=739
Bulgaria gangs
by Ice on Sun Sep 21, 2003 11:38 am

..its gettin crazier every year, one of big dawgs got shot in Aruba (a tiny island far away from home), word is he stole heroin worth bout 500 mil from colombians and moved there with a fake identity but they still got him, shot him in front of his wife....restaurants get blown up every week, peeps get shot over that war for territory shit, but street gangs are on a different level back home, not a neighborhood level, its just you roll with whoever's close to u and whoever can help u make some $$$...thats about it, peace
****************************************

06-26-2007, 10:34 AM
Gang war downtown Oranjestad, Aruba
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I saw on another Aruba board about the gang war down by the Royal Plaza Mall last Saturday. Many arrested and they even made trouble at the hospital. A police car was hijacked and burnt too. Anyone have more info on this riot? I guess it says 100 or more hoodlums were involved.
****************************************
http://www.b92.net/eng/insight/tvshows.php?nav_id=51236
Glenny: You had first of all this huge area of post communism, and of states which were in transition, and which were failing or disintegrating states. Then you have other people looking for markets. And the most striking example of the coming together of the new organized crime groups in Eastern Europe, and more established organized crime groups, was the meetings arranged by the couple of Italian lawyers, on the island of Aruba in the Caribbean, between the biggest gang in Moscow and the two largest drug cartels in Colombia.  
But what happened in the early 1990s was that Colombians were selling as much drugs as they could into America, but America had reached its saturation point. Five percent of the world's population in America – forty percent of the world's cocaine consumption. And so the Columbians wanted to expand their markets in Europe. So they met with the Russians in Aruba, and devised the opening up of the new markets and new transit routes. One of those new transit routes was via Bulgaria, Albania and Croatia. The Bulgarian one, which was the most important was coming from South America to Varna, from Varna to Sofia, and then from Sofia to Belgrade. And this is one of the things the Zemun Clan was heavily involved with - the transit of cocaine from South America, to Belgrade and into the European Union. And, so, what you saw was, you first had the collapse of communism, and then you have globalization. The increased trade flows, the increased capital flows, the increased migratory flows; and those two things together were responsible for what you referred to earlier as the boom.
**********************************************
http://earthops.org/rus_mafia_carib.html
U.S. and European intelligence officials said they have reports of recent meetings between Russian organized crime figures and representatives of the Cali cocaine cartel on the islands of Aruba, St. Vincent and Antigua. The officials said the meetings appeared to be aimed at laying a foundation for long-term deals to supply weapons to the Colombians in exchange for cocaine to supply the rapidly growing market in Russia and the rest of the former Soviet Bloc nations.

In the past three months, the officials said, several Russian vessels have entered the northern Colombian port of Turbo and are believed to have unloaded shipments of AK-47 assault rifles and rocket-propelled grenades in exchange for drugs. It is perhaps a measure of the general level of violence in Colombia that authorities do not know whether the weapons went to Marxist guerrillas, right-wing paramilitary organizations or the Cali drug cartel.





Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on June 25, 2008, 10:46:22 PM
CHECKMATE - GAME OF CHESS -

http://cocaine.org/colombia/cali.html

24 November 2004
"...In a few days, Gilberto Rodríguez Orejuela, known as "The Chess Player" for his shrewdness in building Colombia's Cali cartel into the world's dominant cocaine supplier, will step off a Drug Enforcement Administration plane in Miami to face U.S. justice. Younger brother Miguel Rodríguez Orejuela, known as "El Señor," is likely to follow soon. So will begin one of the biggest drug and money-laundering cases ever prosecuted in Miami's federal courts.

"..."It's hard to believe," said Tom Cash, who ran the DEA's Miami office during the cartel's heyday. "These people were the untouchables in Cali." Cash credited the cartel's long run to its low profile and business acumen. "It's one of those proof positives that these cocaine traffickers were far from cowboys, much more like Wall Street businessmen who used their stealth and their brains and were extremely successful for a very long time," he said.
Now the Cali cartel has been replaced by smaller, more dangerous "baby cartels." Experts estimate as many as 300 mini cartels operate in Colombia.

"...Gilberto Rodríguez Orejuela is a banker by trade, with a taste for soccer, Colombian poets, and friends in high places. Miguel Rodríguez Orejuela holds a law degree from a prestigious university and has been described as a Type-A workaholic.
Together they built a sophisticated, $7 billion-a-year empire that by the mid-1990s supplied 80 percent of the world's cocaine, according to the DEA. They came up with creative ways of hiding cocaine in cement pillars and frozen broccoli and pioneered sophisticated methods to launder drug cash through businesses that appeared legitimate. Chief among them, a chain of discount pharmacies called Drogas la Rebaja, which the Colombian government seized.

"...U.S. authorities say, the brothers were restructuring the family business, turning the day-to-day operations over to Miguel Rodríguez Orejuela 's lawyer son, William Rodríguez Abadia, 40. He is a fugitive.

William Rodriguez Abadia  (He bleeped on the screen all the way to Bill’s lodgings?)




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 25, 2008, 11:15:06 PM
Does anyone know Freddy's birthday from the ALE reports and whether he is a Virgo?  Yes, I know this sounds strange!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: vms on June 26, 2008, 12:58:47 AM
I am at 100% on Simian now.


Go to:
http://www.hi5.com/friend/displaySearch.do

Enter the email address known to have been used by Simian and Merian and see who comes up.

The name says Michel Clermont but the pic is Armin.  :roll:

Picture to compare:  Link (http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a398/vms58/manosalmono9.jpg)



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 26, 2008, 05:01:15 AM
OK LaLa's get your pencils ready.

Let's just assume that Freddy and Ernesto are half brothers, both born out of wedlock with the name Arambatzis.  Could I even dare to suggest that Ernesto, with his expensive private education, might be the illegitimate son of a wealthy Aruban citizen and that may be why he also has a link to the Florida neighborhood?  Shango could be protecting Freddy because he's Ernesto's sibling.


I'm sorry LaLa's, I'm not trying to give you palpatations.  It's just a thought.

SS...Not Lala's but....Sorry can't assume they are half-brothers. Can't even work out how Lilian is even associated with the name. The Chamber records said she was Dutch, which means just that, or Aruban, therefore Dutch. Unless of course those records are wrong. The Aruba and Arambatzis is what I am having a hard time fitting...and the Zedan of course!

From our research Ernesto's mother has a Dutch mother and Greek father...I think...probably born out of wedlock, in Venuezuela. Good possibility he remained there after his mother came to the US. Could explain why we have a connection to the grandparents and not one to Mayra.

JMO.... Armin-Simian/Mirian pointed to Freddy to protect his cousin, Steve....Shango told how it was to protect 'Freddy'


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: vms on June 26, 2008, 07:41:34 AM
Freddy's Multiply Site
http://freddyzedan.multiply.com/photos

Another small pic of Sasha there...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on June 26, 2008, 08:40:25 AM
I am at 100% on Simian now.


Go to:
http://www.hi5.com/friend/displaySearch.do

Enter the email address known to have been used by Simian and Merian and see who comes up.

The name says Michel Clermont but the pic is Armin.  :roll:

Picture to compare:  Link (http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a398/vms58/manosalmono9.jpg)




http://www.garageband.com/song?%7Cpe1%7CS8LTM0LdsaSlYFa3YGg


Band: Drive-by Messiah
Genre: Latin (Rock)
Recorded at The Bontemental Ward, Oranjestad ARUBA.
Music by Armin Solognier & Drive-by Messiah.
Words by Michel Clermont.
Produced by Maurice Janssen & Drive-by Messiah.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 26, 2008, 09:06:40 AM
I am at 100% on Simian now.


Go to:
http://www.hi5.com/friend/displaySearch.do

Enter the email address known to have been used by Simian and Merian and see who comes up.

The name says Michel Clermont but the pic is Armin.  :roll:

Picture to compare:  Link (http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a398/vms58/manosalmono9.jpg)



Yes. No doubt.  Good work!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 26, 2008, 09:08:49 AM
OK LaLa's get your pencils ready.

Let's just assume that Freddy and Ernesto are half brothers, both born out of wedlock with the name Arambatzis.  Could I even dare to suggest that Ernesto, with his expensive private education, might be the illegitimate son of a wealthy Aruban citizen and that may be why he also has a link to the Florida neighborhood?  Shango could be protecting Freddy because he's Ernesto's sibling.


I'm sorry LaLa's, I'm not trying to give you palpatations.  It's just a thought.

You can suggest...this is the speculation thread. LOL   Where did I miss the "expensive private education" part in your info?  Show me again, please. TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Blonde on June 26, 2008, 09:31:40 AM
OK LaLa's get your pencils ready.

Let's just assume that Freddy and Ernesto are half brothers, both born out of wedlock with the name Arambatzis.  Could I even dare to suggest that Ernesto, with his expensive private education, might be the illegitimate son of a wealthy Aruban citizen and that may be why he also has a link to the Florida neighborhood?  Shango could be protecting Freddy because he's Ernesto's sibling.


I'm sorry LaLa's, I'm not trying to give you palpatations.  It's just a thought.


Let's just assume that Freddy and Ernesto are half brothers I would say yes on this Ernesto looks nothing like Freddy ,Ernesto has a pretty face Freddy does not.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Rob on June 26, 2008, 09:44:49 AM
I am at 100% on Simian now.


Go to:
http://www.hi5.com/friend/displaySearch.do

Enter the email address known to have been used by Simian and Merian and see who comes up.

The name says Michel Clermont but the pic is Armin.  :roll:

Picture to compare:  Link (http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a398/vms58/manosalmono9.jpg)




http://www.garageband.com/song?%7Cpe1%7CS8LTM0LdsaSlYFa3YGg


Band: Drive-by Messiah
Genre: Latin (Rock)
Recorded at The Bontemental Ward, Oranjestad ARUBA.
Music by Armin Solognier & Drive-by Messiah.
Words by Michel Clermont.
Produced by Maurice Janssen & Drive-by Messiah.


Some people messed with a lot of people's minds and posted a lot of crap using each other's nicknames on the original Scared Monkeys site. I guess just for fun. I was also a victim of someone posting using my nickname and was harassing me with aliases of my e-mails too. (I know it was someone on Aruba.) I have no part in that, so don't ask me about "codetalking" and that BS.


yeaaaahhh!!! rigggght  ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Rob on June 26, 2008, 09:51:09 AM
Hey SS, nice job on the "translation" on the last page - looks about right to me and the most accurate interpretation yet.

again, nice job.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 26, 2008, 10:13:37 AM
OK LaLa's get your pencils ready.

Let's just assume that Freddy and Ernesto are half brothers, both born out of wedlock with the name Arambatzis.  Could I even dare to suggest that Ernesto, with his expensive private education, might be the illegitimate son of a wealthy Aruban citizen and that may be why he also has a link to the Florida neighborhood?  Shango could be protecting Freddy because he's Ernesto's sibling.


I'm sorry LaLa's, I'm not trying to give you palpatations.  It's just a thought.


Let's just assume that Freddy and Ernesto are half brothers I would say yes on this Ernesto looks nothing like Freddy ,Ernesto has a pretty face Freddy does not.


Would some-one please show me something, anything, as to these two being half-brothers or step-brothers! I can't even find the first post that ties them together! All I see is a pic of them with an unknown man, that I can't tie to both of them. Thanks!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 26, 2008, 10:50:00 AM
Caps said there are no Zedans...so why does Freddy insist on that last name?  OK, it might really be his name and he is using it to distance himself from his possible half brother. Too many unknowns at this point.  I would love to figure out how we came to the conclusion that Freddy and Ernesto are brothers.  Boy!  Would I really love to make that connection...if so things might just get interesting around here.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 26, 2008, 11:06:30 AM
Caps said there are no Zedans...so why does Freddy insist on that last name?  OK, it might really be his name and he is using it to distance himself from his possible half brother. Too many unknowns at this point.  I would love to figure out how we came to the conclusion that Freddy and Ernesto are brothers.  Boy!  Would I really love to make that connection...if so things might just get interesting around here.


Morning Lala's...Caps said Zedan=0, Arambatzis=2

Lilian Regina, Robby and Freddy = 3

 I am pretty sure that Arambatzis is Lilian's maiden name, otherwise would she have kept it after she married Mr Rodriguez? I have no idea where the Albert fits either, posters even commented about her having 3 names!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 26, 2008, 11:10:29 AM
I am working on TP today.  Been thinking more and more that it's possible....just possible.

If Caps had said, Zedan=1  Abrambatzis=2   I would say bingo! 

Where is Caps when you need him? LOL


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: vms on June 26, 2008, 11:16:11 AM
Appearing in the Foundation Register of the Chamber of Commerce and Industry in ARUBA since 8 MARCH 2007 under serial number S898 is the foundation with the trade name:
 
 
STICHTING "FUNDACION CUIDAMI Y SIÑAMI" 
 
Business address MONTANJA 62, NOORD 
Legal form  FOUNDATION 
Name of the STICHTING "FUNDACION CUIDAMI Y SIÑAMI" 
company/foundation/association:
Statutory seat  ARUBA 
Date of 6 MARCH 2007 
incorporation/commencement:
     
   
BOARD MEMBERS/AUTHORIZED PERSONS 
 
ARAMBATZIS-RODRIGUEZ ALBERT, LILIAN REGINA
Residing in  MONTANJA 62, NOORD, ARUBA 
Born in  ARUBA on 7 SEPTEMBER 1953 
Nationality  DUTCH 
Position  PRESIDENT 
Effective  6 MARCH 2007 
Authority  RESTRICTED 

<snipped>

http://www.arubachamber.com/registry/registry_result.afp?KeyValue=37260


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: vms on June 26, 2008, 11:27:38 AM
Lilian Rodriguez Arambatzis
solodipueblo.com/index.php?option=com_docman&task=doc_view&gid=530


(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a398/vms58/Lilian.jpg)
solodipueblo.com/index.php?option=com_docman&task=doc_view&gid=73


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 26, 2008, 11:48:38 AM
Thanks vms...found this and it appears to be a school located at #62. She appears to be Lilian Rodriguez. So is the Arambatzis her maiden name? Born in Aruba...where does Freddy being from Venezuela come in to play? Thanks!

I wonder how Luis and Sasha fit?

Yes, where is Caps!

http://www.checkpointaruba.com/Fundacion%20Cuidami%20y%20Si%c3%b1ami/index.html


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: vms on June 26, 2008, 11:55:39 AM
Thanks vms...found this and it appears to be a school located at #62. She appears to be Lilian Rodriguez. So is the Arambatzis her maiden name? Born in Aruba...where does Freddy being from Venezuela come in to play? Thanks!

I wonder how Luis and Sasha fit?

Yes, where is Caps!

http://www.checkpointaruba.com/Fundacion%20Cuidami%20y%20Si%c3%b1ami/index.html


Yes, I think that is Lilian in that group. Didn't know about posting that one because of the children...

Luis?

IMO, Sasha is definitely related to Freddy. I just don't know if she is a half or step.

IIRC, AG told us that in Aruba the maiden name comes after the married name.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 26, 2008, 12:08:12 PM
Thanks vms...found this and it appears to be a school located at #62. She appears to be Lilian Rodriguez. So is the Arambatzis her maiden name? Born in Aruba...where does Freddy being from Venezuela come in to play? Thanks!

I wonder how Luis and Sasha fit?

Yes, where is Caps!

http://www.checkpointaruba.com/Fundacion%20Cuidami%20y%20Si%c3%b1ami/index.html


Yes, I think that is Lilian in that group. Didn't know about posting that one because of the children...

Luis?

IMO, Sasha is definitely related to Freddy. I just don't know if she is a half or step.

IIRC, AG told us that in Aruba the maiden name comes after the married name.

Luis...ISA...questioned 3 times! Will find the info! I will have to look at the names again! Which do you think is her maiden name? And what about Ghis? TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 26, 2008, 12:50:01 PM
Sorry..it was Leonardo that was quizzed from ISA....going to take a long look at some things on the Log!!!

Maybe by the time I am done I will have worked ou the names! LOL


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on June 26, 2008, 01:15:49 PM
Sorry..it was Leonardo that was quizzed from ISA....going to take a long look at some things on the Log!!!

Maybe by the time I am done I will have worked ou the names! LOL

Mum, iirc, Luis was someone Rob met & mentioned along the way.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 26, 2008, 01:27:55 PM
Sorry..it was Leonardo that was quizzed from ISA....going to take a long look at some things on the Log!!!

Maybe by the time I am done I will have worked ou the names! LOL

Mum, iirc, Luis was someone Rob met & mentioned along the way.


Thanks 2NJSons...I wonder if it was Luis Rodriguez?

Rob...can you help?  TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Rob on June 26, 2008, 02:08:51 PM
Sorry..it was Leonardo that was quizzed from ISA....going to take a long look at some things on the Log!!!

Maybe by the time I am done I will have worked ou the names! LOL

Mum, iirc, Luis was someone Rob met & mentioned along the way.


Thanks 2NJSons...I wonder if it was Luis Rodriguez?

Rob...can you help?  TIA

do you have a picture Mum?

This guy was older - like mid to late 30's. Early 40's.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 26, 2008, 02:32:41 PM
Sorry..it was Leonardo that was quizzed from ISA....going to take a long look at some things on the Log!!!

Maybe by the time I am done I will have worked ou the names! LOL

Mum, iirc, Luis was someone Rob met & mentioned along the way.


Thanks 2NJSons...I wonder if it was Luis Rodriguez?

Rob...can you help?  TIA

do you have a picture Mum?

This guy was older - like mid to late 30's. Early 40's.


Hi Rob....Are we talking about the Luis you were trying to track down as a friend of Armin's? I think maybe that is maybe whom 2NJSons is thinking of.

I was asking about a Luis Rodriguez, from the Dr Phil log, trying to work out if he is connected to Freddy's mom, Lilian Rodriguez.

And about now I am totally confused...Ramirez/Rodriguez/Rivera!

Rob...can you be of any help with these two names, please? Which would be the mother's name?  TIA

Lilian Regina ARAMBATZIS-RODRIGUEZ ALBERT

Robby Gerardhus ARAMBATZIS PEREZ

Could these two have been married? Again thanks in advance!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 26, 2008, 03:50:57 PM
LaLa's - Mum found that Ernesto had graduated from a prep school in Florida.  It's a boarding school in Bradenton. I looked all through my education materials and I can't find a tuition.  It looks/sounds like one of the expensive small prep schools.  Who paid for this tuition?  Even the cheaper baording schools aren't inexpensive.  Why didn't Freddy get the same education?

I have a question and it's a gruesome topic, but it's leading me to something else.  At 11:33, there was a Shango/Simian discussion about the Americans who were searching in the pond.  Simian always claimed that he was posting information that was about to happen.  Suddenly, at 11:37, Simian posted... Her decapitated body to be found.  Her head to wash up on shore later. Shango didn't responded to this statement about Natalee's body being mutilated.

1.  How did Simian know about a decapitated body?  He had to have a direct connection to someone at the very heart of the interrogations or he had direct information from someone who had been there at the end of the event. Daury (SC?)
2.  If you look carefully at what he said, he is telling us that her decapitated body will be found and since it is in context with the pond discussion, he is probably saying that she was in the pond. (That pond or another pond?)
3.  His second sentence says that her head would wash up on shore later.  "On shore later" tells me that her head would wash up on the shore of the ocean and that her head wouldn't be found in the pond.  Things don't usually wash up on the shore of a pond.  The perps must have mutilated her and disposed of her in various places. Was just her head placed in the fish trap?
4.  Is this what was meant when the statement was made by ALE (I think, Rudy) that he thought that she had been in three places?
5.  Did the perps dispose of the body in a number of places on the island and the ocean?  Is this why there was a "hit" at the dump, a "hit" in the shallow grave, something on the American's screen in the pond, and the missing crab cage? Is there more than one Daury who each had a body part to dispose of?

How would Simian have had this information if it wasn't directly from a perp?  Why didn't Shango respond to the statement? When Urine claims that she will never be found, is it because he knows that she has placed all over crappy island?  When he claims that he left her on the beach, perhaps he is referring to part of her on the beach.  Is this why the knife was missing from the huts?  There's a picture of a similar knife that was identified by the fisherman on Dr. Hodge's website.  Simian might have known that part of her was in pond and part of her was in the ocean.  He might even have had the ponds confused if he was told the information second hand.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 26, 2008, 04:30:47 PM
Q: Joran told more. The guy who made Natalee dissapear worked on a touristboat with a banana behind it.


Did Simian have the ponds confused because his contact had actually been assigned to ocean portion of the operation and maybe wasn't involved with the pond?


Are all of these statements that Patrick is making somehow linked to the reporter's statement that could ruin Melody's family?  Is she mad at Urine for making stateents to Patrick?  Who is the father of Melody's baby?  A perp?  A relative of a perp?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: vms on June 26, 2008, 04:44:00 PM
Thanks vms...found this and it appears to be a school located at #62. She appears to be Lilian Rodriguez. So is the Arambatzis her maiden name? Born in Aruba...where does Freddy being from Venezuela come in to play? Thanks!

I wonder how Luis and Sasha fit?

Yes, where is Caps!

http://www.checkpointaruba.com/Fundacion%20Cuidami%20y%20Si%c3%b1ami/index.html


Yes, I think that is Lilian in that group. Didn't know about posting that one because of the children...

Luis?

IMO, Sasha is definitely related to Freddy. I just don't know if she is a half or step.

IIRC, AG told us that in Aruba the maiden name comes after the married name.

Luis...ISA...questioned 3 times! Will find the info! I will have to look at the names again! Which do you think is her maiden name? And what about Ghis? TIA

I wish I had the answers to both questions, Mum.



SS,
I believe that post was from the Simian doppleganger.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 26, 2008, 04:44:20 PM
SS
Some of the Simian posts are considered to be written by the doppleganger...thus they are called fake Simian posts.  The one about the head and body is one of those posts.  I will post the fake ones as soon as I can for you to see.  I am not saying that is the truth, we were told they originated from a separate location and used a different IP address is all. 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 26, 2008, 04:48:49 PM
Some of the fake Simian posts...don't know if I found all of them.  There is a link here somewhere.


June 27, 2005
Her decapitated body to be found.

Her head to wash up on shore later

June 27, 2005
I have not left. I do not want to be copied however and would like to stay and speak.

June 27, 2005
I leave now. The island is stiring.

June 27, 2005
They have found her. Watch your news stations for this one. I said this was to happen. You can praise The Simian later

June 27, 2005
Ally ellos han encontrado su cuerpo. Mire las noticias para más información en esto



More SIMIAN fakes:

The other Simian that appears to also be a fake/troll is this one. Posted under the names Simian and crs:

All on June 24th:

As Simian:
BREAKING NEWS: Charges have been made against Joran. MURDER by Drug. Father tried to cover up and will be charged soon.
This is huge

As Simian
Im serious - im down her in aruba right now

As crs
Scratch that, it is the real Simian. He confirmed it.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Rob on June 26, 2008, 05:09:44 PM
Sorry..it was Leonardo that was quizzed from ISA....going to take a long look at some things on the Log!!!

Maybe by the time I am done I will have worked ou the names! LOL

Mum, iirc, Luis was someone Rob met & mentioned along the way.


Thanks 2NJSons...I wonder if it was Luis Rodriguez?

Rob...can you help?  TIA

do you have a picture Mum?

This guy was older - like mid to late 30's. Early 40's.


Hi Rob....Are we talking about the Luis you were trying to track down as a friend of Armin's? I think maybe that is maybe whom 2NJSons is thinking of.

I was asking about a Luis Rodriguez, from the Dr Phil log, trying to work out if he is connected to Freddy's mom, Lilian Rodriguez.

And about now I am totally confused...Ramirez/Rodriguez/Rivera!

Rob...can you be of any help with these two names, please? Which would be the mother's name?  TIA

Lilian Regina ARAMBATZIS-RODRIGUEZ ALBERT

Robby Gerardhus ARAMBATZIS PEREZ

Could these two have been married? Again thanks in advance!

Mum, I'm sorry, I just don't know much, if anything, about those folks.

My personal belief is Freddy and Ernesto might not even be related. At best, I feel they are step siblings. I believe that two people with children already born were married and that is as close as Freddy and Ernesto are. There is also a very good chance they are not even remotely related. I just don't know.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 26, 2008, 05:30:37 PM
SS
Some of the Simian posts are considered to be written by the doppleganger...thus they are called fake Simian posts.  The one about the head and body is one of those posts.  I will post the fake ones as soon as I can for you to see.  I am not saying that is the truth, we were told they originated from a separate location and used a different IP address is all. 



Thanks for the info LaLa's.  I didn't realize that this was one of the fakes.  Something still bothers me though.  Did the doppleganger also know what was going on?  The news flash that they found her was also being acted on by Renfro.  Did Renfro plant the information with the doppleganger?  Did the doppleganger plant the information with Renfro?  Is it possible that they did, God forbid, mutilate her and spread her all over the island and the ocean?  It would be easier than moving a woman's body that could be noticed and much easier to dispose of her.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Blonde on June 26, 2008, 05:56:26 PM
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/The%20pimps/ernestoaruba.gif)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on June 26, 2008, 07:05:01 PM
SS
Some of the Simian posts are considered to be written by the doppleganger...thus they are called fake Simian posts.  The one about the head and body is one of those posts.  I will post the fake ones as soon as I can for you to see.  I am not saying that is the truth, we were told they originated from a separate location and used a different IP address is all. 



Thanks for the info LaLa's.  I didn't realize that this was one of the fakes.  Something still bothers me though.  Did the doppleganger also know what was going on?  The news flash that they found her was also being acted on by Renfro.  Did Renfro plant the information with the doppleganger?  Did the doppleganger plant the information with Renfro?  Is it possible that they did, God forbid, mutilate her and spread her all over the island and the ocean?  It would be easier than moving a woman's body that could be noticed and much easier to dispose of her.



Merian Ernest   7/13/05 5:30pm
Some Tetes [HEADS] will roll in the weeks ahead. Tetes I believe means heads. [TETE IS FRENCH WORD FOR "HEAD"]

Merian Ernest 7/14/05 12:12 pm
Third act is set to play. The rotten package from The Hague is screaming to be heard. Do not sell your hard earned opinions. It might be time to eat your words. (screaming to be heard could imply a head/mouth.).

Simian Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:37 am (fake simian)
Her decapitated body to be found. Her head to wash up on shore later

Joran "...If they find the girl, they will see the sh*t....

Joran (June 13th 2005 Proces verbaal findings by Jan vdStraten) "...To my question where the girl was buried then, he answered: I think that IT was buried then next to the wall of the Fisherman's Hut., for the rest I would not know either.  During the conversation Joran showed differing emotions. Sometimes he cried, sometimes he was direct in his answers"


Merian 7/14/05 11:24 pm
The Simian called out names like bifrons. Nobody else. Listen closely today. The Babylonians are grinning after a long while. The phones have been hacked. Dots on a dish. The rotten package from The Hague. Choose sides now to avoid embarrassment. The checkmate is set again.

Merian Ernest 7/13/05 4:56pm
Swinging from a building ain’t easy. Merian has many Babylonian friends. Primates are not indigenous to the land, but make no mistake still a cousin to the great Cacique macuarima.  Look tomorrow for the Palace will rumble. Eyes burning in the xenon. Rotten packages from The Hague will make or break the losers. The palace servants have to choose sides now to avoid embarrassment.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 26, 2008, 07:29:46 PM
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=224515962

Meet Davin.  He is 32 years old.  He says he's from Amsterdam and currently living in New Zealand.  His site has many familiar Aruban faces including a "very special" friend of JC.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 26, 2008, 08:07:15 PM
The common denominator.




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 26, 2008, 08:17:33 PM
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=149845187

Meet Jonathan.  31 years old from Amsterdam.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 26, 2008, 08:26:15 PM
SS
Some of the Simian posts are considered to be written by the doppleganger...thus they are called fake Simian posts.  The one about the head and body is one of those posts.  I will post the fake ones as soon as I can for you to see.  I am not saying that is the truth, we were told they originated from a separate location and used a different IP address is all. 



Thanks for the info LaLa's.  I didn't realize that this was one of the fakes.  Something still bothers me though.  Did the doppleganger also know what was going on?  The news flash that they found her was also being acted on by Renfro.  Did Renfro plant the information with the doppleganger?  Did the doppleganger plant the information with Renfro?  Is it possible that they did, God forbid, mutilate her and spread her all over the island and the ocean?  It would be easier than moving a woman's body that could be noticed and much easier to dispose of her.



SS…I was reading a forum, a while back, about the day that happened. I am not sure where it was now, but when it was posted that Natalee’s body had been found, Julia was gone, no more posts! I think it was RWV, and I remember coming into the Forum and asking about RWV and Julia’s nic!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 26, 2008, 08:29:46 PM
Jonathan graduated from Emerson College.   ::cartwheel:: ::MonkeyDance:: ::cartwheel::




I wonder where Ernesto went to college?  Hmmmm


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 26, 2008, 08:36:03 PM
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/The%20pimps/ernestoaruba.gif)


Blonde…that is the pic with the unknown guy! Thanks…I don’t supposes you have any idea of his name and how all three are tied together do you? Thanks in Advance!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Blonde on June 26, 2008, 08:48:08 PM
All I know they were at Sasha's 15th Birthday party.

(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/The%20pimps/Sasha_s15thB-DayPartyPart2024.jpg)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: vms on June 26, 2008, 08:53:36 PM
Jonathan graduated from Emerson College.   ::cartwheel:: ::MonkeyDance:: ::cartwheel::




I wonder where Ernesto went to college?  Hmmmm

FIU


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 26, 2008, 09:14:52 PM
All I know they were at Sasha's 15th Birthday party.

(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/The%20pimps/Sasha_s15thB-DayPartyPart2024.jpg)


Thanks Blonde...any more pics, pretty please?  ::MonkeyCool::

Vms...Thanks!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Pita on June 26, 2008, 11:04:31 PM
Joran and Sasha

(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m153/CMPM/SashaJoran.jpg)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: klaasend on June 26, 2008, 11:32:51 PM
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/The%20pimps/ernestoaruba.gif)


Blonde…that is the pic with the unknown guy! Thanks…I don’t supposes you have any idea of his name and how all three are tied together do you? Thanks in Advance!

Which unknown? 

From the left:  Ernesto, Freddy then I'd guess Sasha's dad


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Silverfox on June 27, 2008, 05:39:15 AM
Does anyone here track any trails to Jacksonville, Florida?  If so let me know.  Thanks


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 27, 2008, 07:15:02 AM
Does anyone here track any trails to Jacksonville, Florida?  If so let me know.  Thanks

Now who can I think of that may have ties to Jacksonville...A couple of FO posters... ::MonkeyHaHa::

Thanks in Advance...Silverfox!

Thanks Pita...and Klaas...Rodriguez, Sasha....Lilian?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 27, 2008, 07:47:22 AM
Does anyone here track any trails to Jacksonville, Florida?  If so let me know.  Thanks

Now who can I think of that may have ties to Jacksonville...A couple of FO posters... ::MonkeyHaHa::

Thanks in Advance...Silverfox!

Thanks Pita...and Klaas...Rodriguez, Sasha....Lilian?


Sorry...FP...Front page

Connection to the Rodriguez family and the van der Sloot family?

Who is the blonde guy in the pic with Jaime and Koen? TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Blonde on June 27, 2008, 08:23:46 AM
Same night

(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/Aruba/nh079.jpg)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: vms on June 27, 2008, 08:51:27 AM
Does anyone here track any trails to Jacksonville, Florida?  If so let me know.  Thanks

I was looking in that direction at one point.
I am definitely interested.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Observer on June 27, 2008, 08:56:41 AM
Does anyone here track any trails to Jacksonville, Florida?  If so let me know.  Thanks

I was looking in that direction at one point.
I am definitely interested.
Yes,The owner of FOB2 lived there and now Clermont. The oldest address I could find on him was Michigan of all places. The other registered owner of that blog lives in Indian Rocks Beach.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 27, 2008, 09:01:36 AM
Does anyone here track any trails to Jacksonville, Florida?  If so let me know.  Thanks

I was looking in that direction at one point.
I am definitely interested.


Good Morning vms...All roads lead to Florida!  LOL


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: vms on June 27, 2008, 09:05:24 AM
Does anyone here track any trails to Jacksonville, Florida?  If so let me know.  Thanks

I was looking in that direction at one point.
I am definitely interested.
Yes,The owner of FOB2 lived there and now Clermont. The oldest address I could find on him was Michigan of all places. The other registered owner of that blog lives in Indian Rocks Beach.

Ok, I was on a different trail that led directly to Jacksonville.  :lol:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 27, 2008, 09:08:02 AM
Silverfox
Many roads lead to Jacksonville!  Want to share?  I am sure VMS and I would be most imterested. 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: vms on June 27, 2008, 09:08:20 AM
Does anyone here track any trails to Jacksonville, Florida?  If so let me know.  Thanks

I was looking in that direction at one point.
I am definitely interested.


Good Morning vms...All roads lead to Florida!  LOL

Morning, Mum.

So true, we've traveled all over Florida!  ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 27, 2008, 09:16:33 AM
Maybe we need to pursue another direction for a change in hopes it leads us back to our original ideas?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 27, 2008, 09:18:31 AM
Does anyone here track any trails to Jacksonville, Florida?  If so let me know.  Thanks

I was looking in that direction at one point.
I am definitely interested.
Yes,The owner of FOB2 lived there and now Clermont. The oldest address I could find on him was Michigan of all places. The other registered owner of that blog lives in Indian Rocks Beach.

Did you say Michigan?   Weren't the fake Simian posts from there as well? Hmmmmm.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Observer on June 27, 2008, 09:22:47 AM
Does anyone here track any trails to Jacksonville, Florida?  If so let me know.  Thanks

I was looking in that direction at one point.
I am definitely interested.
Yes,The owner of FOB2 lived there and now Clermont. The oldest address I could find on him was Michigan of all places. The other registered owner of that blog lives in Indian Rocks Beach.

Did you say Michigan?   Weren't the fake Simian posts from there as well? Hmmmmm.
Yes I did,Howell Michigan..He's the same age as Paul Brough and the FOB2 server is out of Lansing Michigan about two miles from a address registered to him. It doesn't mean PB is definetly tied to FOB2 because that is just where the server host is located,but I have my suspicions. Plus a little birdy told me PB'S partner lives in FLA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 27, 2008, 09:35:21 AM
Maybe we need to pursue another direction for a change in hopes it leads us back to our original ideas?



Good Morning...I am on a short trip to Aruba this morning...business...not pleasure!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 27, 2008, 09:48:08 AM
Maybe we need to pursue another direction for a change in hopes it leads us back to our original ideas?



Good Morning...I am on a short trip to Aruba this morning...business...not pleasure!

Oh goody!!!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 27, 2008, 09:56:16 AM
Obs
The first time I learned the origin of the fake posts were in Michigan I thought about Medley, since I knew she was there.  I had a good laugh at the time about it, but always had it in the back of my mind as being someone she knew. 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Silverfox on June 27, 2008, 11:30:57 AM
Silverfox
Many roads lead to Jacksonville!  Want to share?  I am sure VMS and I would be most imterested. 

OK...Klass should have my email addie -- Klass please give it to Lala ... I got a strange message earlier today and probably means nothing except when I traced the IP it took me to Jacksonville, Florida...So I thought I would share the IP to see if there might be a match...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 27, 2008, 12:21:30 PM
Silverfox

Here is my email...

cindoal@yahoo.com


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 27, 2008, 12:45:10 PM
OK, How is the fake Simian in Michigan connected to JR?  Both acted on the news flash that a body had been or was about to be found.  Fake Simian posted the news flash and JR did her theatrical performance.  Knowing what we now know, that performance was no mistake because JR KNOWS. Everything that she did during that period of time was a performance.  This had to be a big diversion from something that was going on that they needed to hide, because the searchers didn't even find a body in the pond.  Was someone else brought in for questioning that morning and they needed to keep the media away?  The pond was being searched, but was anything else happening at that same time?  Simian protected Steve and Shango protected Freddy.  Who in Michigan was protecting JR?  Am I off base?  JR also led them to the wrong police station.  Was this the plan?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 27, 2008, 12:59:47 PM
Don't know that they are connected.  There was a poster or maybe two that claimed to be from Michigan.  I carried on for months about Simian's posts until someone told me they were fake...meaning they were written by Simian's doppleganger.  That is the accepted idea anyway, does not mean that to be true...just speculation based on somewhat reliable info.  One of us asked about the decapitated head post and that is how I found out it was fake because it did not originated from the same IP or maybe it was the same email address as the first Siman posts. 

Since that time, I have found out so much more and tend to lean toward all these Simian's being connected in some way.  So when Obs said Michigan, well it got my attention.  I am always going hmmmmm over something.  Anytime I do that it means I have made another connection with a dot in the case.  Doesn't mean I know a darn thing about what I am talking. LOL 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 27, 2008, 01:03:57 PM
One more thing SS

I would say that Simian/Merian was trying to protect Steve, but it is pure speculation that Shango was trying to protect Freddy at this point.  The connection to Steve and Simian is there...but the connection to Shango and Freddy is still awaiting moderation. LOL   


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 27, 2008, 01:16:26 PM
One more thing SS

I would say that Simian/Merian was trying to protect Steve, but it is pure speculation that Shango was trying to protect Freddy at this point.  The connection to Steve and Simian is there...but the connection to Shango and Freddy is still awaiting moderation. LOL   



I personally think that the frantic car chase with Natalee being swept away to South America was also staged as a cover.  Thiel was probably set up.  This could have been set up by the Shango team as a cover or Simian, or JR.  Who was being questioned that morning who would have been so important that a diversion that big had to be staged?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 27, 2008, 01:19:52 PM
OK, How is the fake Simian in Michigan connected to JR?  Both acted on the news flash that a body had been or was about to be found.  Fake Simian posted the news flash and JR did her theatrical performance.  Knowing what we now know, that performance was no mistake because JR KNOWS. Everything that she did during that period of time was a performance.  This had to be a big diversion from something that was going on that they needed to hide, because the searchers didn't even find a body in the pond.  Was someone else brought in for questioning that morning and they needed to keep the media away?  The pond was being searched, but was anything else happening at that same time?  Simian protected Steve and Shango protected Freddy.  Who in Michigan was protecting JR?  Am I off base?  JR also led them to the wrong police station.  Was this the plan?




A whole drama played out that morning on the forums, from what I have read.  There was an arrest reported by AP and another US news source, the after a few hours...POOF!...no more.  I have posted the articles in Shango a couple of times, along with the sequence of events. Lala's just posted one about the same day, IIRC, and a 6th. person's house.

I believe this to be Freddy, as he was questioned the next day, and if you count Guido, who Simian would have known about, and needed permission to go to The Netherlands, this makes Freddy the Fifth.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 27, 2008, 01:24:44 PM
Don't know that they are connected.  There was a poster or maybe two that claimed to be from Michigan.  I carried on for months about Simian's posts until someone told me they were fake...meaning they were written by Simian's doppleganger.  That is the accepted idea anyway, does not mean that to be true...just speculation based on somewhat reliable info.  One of us asked about the decapitated head post and that is how I found out it was fake because it did not originated from the same IP or maybe it was the same email address as the first Siman posts. 

Since that time, I have found out so much more and tend to lean toward all these Simian's being connected in some way.  So when Obs said Michigan, well it got my attention.  I am always going hmmmmm over something.  Anytime I do that it means I have made another connection with a dot in the case.  Doesn't mean I know a darn thing about what I am talking. LOL 


Zedans are in Michigan...same area as Paul Brough!  Another coincidence! Just can't find any in Aruba! And now both Freddy and Lilian are not using Arambatzis either. Go figure!!! Not surprising to me in the very least...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 27, 2008, 01:29:14 PM
One more thing SS

I would say that Simian/Merian was trying to protect Steve, but it is pure speculation that Shango was trying to protect Freddy at this point.  The connection to Steve and Simian is there...but the connection to Shango and Freddy is still awaiting moderation. LOL   



I personally think that the frantic car chase with Natalee being swept away to South America was also staged as a cover.  Thiel was probably set up.  This could have been set up by the Shango team as a cover or Simian, or JR.  Who was being questioned that morning who would have been so important that a diversion that big had to be staged?

Mirian said 'the noble son of the sun breaking through!'


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 27, 2008, 02:07:58 PM
OK, How is the fake Simian in Michigan connected to JR?  Both acted on the news flash that a body had been or was about to be found.  Fake Simian posted the news flash and JR did her theatrical performance.  Knowing what we now know, that performance was no mistake because JR KNOWS. Everything that she did during that period of time was a performance.  This had to be a big diversion from something that was going on that they needed to hide, because the searchers didn't even find a body in the pond.  Was someone else brought in for questioning that morning and they needed to keep the media away?  The pond was being searched, but was anything else happening at that same time?  Simian protected Steve and Shango protected Freddy.  Who in Michigan was protecting JR?  Am I off base?  JR also led them to the wrong police station.  Was this the plan?




A whole drama played out that morning on the forums, from what I have read.  There was an arrest reported by AP and another US news source, the after a few hours...POOF!...no more.  I have posted the articles in Shango a couple of times, along with the sequence of events. Lala's just posted one about the same day, IIRC, and a 6th. person's house.

I believe this to be Freddy, as he was questioned the next day, and if you count Guido, who Simian would have known about, and needed permission to go to The Netherlands, this makes Freddy the Fifth.

And this was before Paulus arrest.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 27, 2008, 02:24:52 PM
OK, How is the fake Simian in Michigan connected to JR?  Both acted on the news flash that a body had been or was about to be found.  Fake Simian posted the news flash and JR did her theatrical performance.  Knowing what we now know, that performance was no mistake because JR KNOWS. Everything that she did during that period of time was a performance.  This had to be a big diversion from something that was going on that they needed to hide, because the searchers didn't even find a body in the pond.  Was someone else brought in for questioning that morning and they needed to keep the media away?  The pond was being searched, but was anything else happening at that same time?  Simian protected Steve and Shango protected Freddy.  Who in Michigan was protecting JR?  Am I off base?  JR also led them to the wrong police station.  Was this the plan?




A whole drama played out that morning on the forums, from what I have read.  There was an arrest reported by AP and another US news source, the after a few hours...POOF!...no more.  I have posted the articles in Shango a couple of times, along with the sequence of events. Lala's just posted one about the same day, IIRC, and a 6th. person's house.

I believe this to be Freddy, as he was questioned the next day, and if you count Guido, who Simian would have known about, and needed permission to go to The Netherlands, this makes Freddy the Fifth.

And this was before Paulus arrest.


This was on 6/11/2005...I will see if I can find the entire series of events, as I don't believe I saved it once I posted it.

There were 2 press reports, then it was denied and I believe the last news article out of Curacao, said totally unrelated to the case...please don't quote me, I will find it...LOL...I found it right after I started posting and didn't know how to save a link and post it, so I don't remember if I was reading the FP or at RWV that day!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 27, 2008, 02:49:09 PM
LOL...I have posted it three times...and each time I want it I have to search...going to save the links to my posts!... ::MonkeyHaHa::

the link is no longer available.

www.nbc4i.com/news/4593143/detail.html

Another Arrest Made In Case Of Missing Ala. Teen
POSTED: 9:38 am EDT June 10, 2005
UPDATED: 9:34 am EDT June 11, 2005

ORANJESTAD, Aruba -- Police in Aruba investigating the disappearance of an Alabama teenager made another arrest early Saturday. It comes just hours after police said one of three men recently arrested admitted "something bad had happened" to Natalee Holloway.

Police aren't commenting on the latest arrest, which was the sixth since Holloway went missing May 30.

Late Friday, one of three young men who took Holloway to the beach during her class trip to Aruba said "something bad happened" to her, police said.

The three men arrested by Aruban police early Thursday morning had been designated "persons of interest" in the case and were detained soon after Natalee Holloway's disappearance. Police officials questioned the trio, and then released them back to their families.

And more…..

This one from the AP about the same arrest:
By MICHAEL NORTON, Associated Press Writer

ORANJESTAD, Aruba - Police investigating the disappearance of an Alabama honors student in Aruba arrested a man at dawn Saturday, hours after one of three young men already in custody admitted "something bad happened" to the woman after they took her to the beach.

It was unclear if the 6 a.m. arrest was related to the admission. The same team of officers who arrested five others in the case during the past week went to a home just outside Oranjestad, the capital, and came out with a handcuffed man who looked to be in his 20s.

And then I posted:
OK....I just read that the arrest I posted above was NOT related to Natalee!

Next I posted:
Same arrest....now it didn't happen!

by Norman 'Gus' Thomas
Caribbean Net News Senior Regional Correspondent
E-mail: rc@caribbeannetnews.com
Saturday, June 11, 2005ORANJESTAD, Aruba:

Law enforcement officials in Aruba are calling recent reports coming out of the USA in relation to the disappearance of an Alabama teenager as "untrue and misleading." 18-year-old Natalee Holloway vanished May 29 after leaving an Oranjestad nightclub.

According to US reports, police in Aruba arrested a man on Saturday morning, after one of a trio that was previously held reportedly told police "something bad happened to her".

CNN's 2:00 pm report on Saturday stated that a senior police officer had told them that one of the three men arrested had confessed to killing Halloway.

Aruba police told Caribbean Net News Saturday that they have been engaged in an unsuccessful island-wide search for Holloway, who had come to the island with 124 other students from the USA to celebrate their graduation from Mountain Brook High School.

Caribbean Net News contacted CNN Headline News in Atlanta who said that they have reporters on the ground in Aruba and were adamant that they are sticking by their story.

However, officials in Aruba maintain that no confession was made and there has been no other arrest apart from the five made earlier.

According to one US report, police this morning visited a home on the outskirts of the capital city of Oranjestad and were later seen coming from the house with a young man wearing handcuffs, but the Aruba police have also denied this.

However, police did confirm to Caribbean Net News that, of the arrested trio, two are brothers and hail from Suriname while the other is a 17-year-old Dutchman who is the son of a top member of Aruba's legal circle.









Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on June 27, 2008, 05:08:31 PM
One more thing SS

I would say that Simian/Merian was trying to protect Steve, but it is pure speculation that Shango was trying to protect Freddy at this point.  The connection to Steve and Simian is there...but the connection to Shango and Freddy is still awaiting moderation. LOL   

I personally think that the frantic car chase with Natalee being swept away to South America was also staged as a cover.  Thiel was probably set up.  This could have been set up by the Shango team as a cover or Simian, or JR.  Who was being questioned that morning who would have been so important that a diversion that big had to be staged?

Mirian said 'the noble son of the sun breaking through!'

Mum,

sol naciente = "rising sun" when translated from Spanish to English.
 (sun breaking thru? jaguar rising?)

http://www.vrijmetselarij.net/el_sol_naciente/ 
LODGE EL SOL NACIENTE
Webmaster J.R. Laclé
Chartered under the Grand East of the Netherlands 
(Band Master Dennis Wever)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 28, 2008, 02:26:15 AM
One more thing SS

I would say that Simian/Merian was trying to protect Steve, but it is pure speculation that Shango was trying to protect Freddy at this point.  The connection to Steve and Simian is there...but the connection to Shango and Freddy is still awaiting moderation. LOL   



I personally think that the frantic car chase with Natalee being swept away to South America was also staged as a cover.  Thiel was probably set up.  This could have been set up by the Shango team as a cover or Simian, or JR.  Who was being questioned that morning who would have been so important that a diversion that big had to be staged?

Mirian said 'the noble son of the sun breaking through!'



Didn't we find that this was the flag of Anitgua (I think) that had the sun rising?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 28, 2008, 02:43:52 AM
Who was born on Antigua and Babruda?



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Silverfox on June 28, 2008, 08:01:06 AM
Lala's -- You've got mail  ::MonkeyCool::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: sharon on June 28, 2008, 08:06:46 AM
I am at 100% on Simian now.


Go to:
http://www.hi5.com/friend/displaySearch.do

Enter the email address known to have been used by Simian and Merian and see who comes up.

The name says Michel Clermont but the pic is Armin.  :roll:

Picture to compare:  Link (http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a398/vms58/manosalmono9.jpg)



fyi -- Casa Tua is (was?) a restaurant on Miami Beach.

But you all probaly knew that.  ::MonkeyLaugh::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 28, 2008, 08:07:22 AM
Lala's -- You've got mail  ::MonkeyCool::

Thanks.  Working on it as we speak. Will let you know.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: sharon on June 28, 2008, 08:12:02 AM
Jonathan graduated from Emerson College.   ::cartwheel:: ::MonkeyDance:: ::cartwheel::




I wonder where Ernesto went to college?  Hmmmm

FIU

??

I thought Ernie went to college in Venezuela?? I thought the Frog posted that way back in 2005??


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 28, 2008, 08:16:07 AM
Jonathan graduated from Emerson College.   ::cartwheel:: ::MonkeyDance:: ::cartwheel::




I wonder where Ernesto went to college?  Hmmmm

FIU

??

I thought Ernie went to college in Venezuela?? I thought the Frog posted that way back in 2005??
.

You could be right there...I hope Kermit will repost that info so we can be sure. I think some other monkeys have discovered he attended a school in Bradenton or it was called Bradenton.  I can't remember the details, but I am sure Mum will post when she drops in later.  I was kind of surprised too. Always thought the same as you until just the other day. Thanks for reminding where we heard it.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: sharon on June 28, 2008, 08:29:19 AM
One more thing SS

I would say that Simian/Merian was trying to protect Steve, but it is pure speculation that Shango was trying to protect Freddy at this point.  The connection to Steve and Simian is there...but the connection to Shango and Freddy is still awaiting moderation. LOL   

Lala's!

You are bringing up a great point that has perplexed me for some time.....

As I read the threads (and of course reminiscing to the days and nights that I watched the Simian and Shango postings 'live' as they were occuring on Scared Monkeys)......

You (we) have all spent 3 years 'deciphering' the code.....I have read over 100 interpretations for every line of Simian and Shango -- and well over 100 diffferent people named for each speculation....and countless interpretations of locations and events and people from all around the world (although you do spend a great deal of time in Florida  ::MonkeyLaugh:: ::MonkeyLaugh::).....

So someone please explain to me -- how did Simian and Shango IMMEDIATELY know what the other was talking about???

Sorry. I have been cursed with logical mind  ::MonkeyCool::



And btw...IMO -- the obscure comment about the 'rat and whiskers and drippings' -- refers to the DOPPLEGANGER who liked to use '.....' in their posts, where Simian did NOT use '...'.


One more thing -- I checked out a few of the addresses you were all posting last week as several were actually in my zip code  ::MonkeyLaugh::....and well -- we've been in a construction boom for quite awhile and many of the places from 13 years ago are gone  ::MonkeyHaHa:: But I haven't completed my survey yet

Hve a great day fellow Monkeys. I'm OFF to brave another day on the dangerous streets of South Florida  ::MonkeyLaugh:: ::MonkeyLaugh::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 28, 2008, 08:39:27 AM
Jonathan graduated from Emerson College.   ::cartwheel:: ::MonkeyDance:: ::cartwheel::




I wonder where Ernesto went to college?  Hmmmm

FIU

??

I thought Ernie went to college in Venezuela?? I thought the Frog posted that way back in 2005??


Hi Sharon...most of the Floridians have been very hospitable... ::MonkeyWink::



Ernesto    Arambatzis       

Graduation Year:   1994
City:   Porlamar
State:   NE
Country:   Venezuela


http://www.bradentonacademy.com/apps/directory/directory_item.jsp?REC_ID=131590&rn=1129278


This is the link, it goes to Bradenton Prep. School in Florida…It is not a college. The earliest we have placed him in Florida, so far is 1995, so he may have been in Venezuela.

We have also found him associated with an address in Bradenton, Florida….

Thanks for the info, once again...Have a great day!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: sharon on June 28, 2008, 09:10:10 AM


Hi Sharon...most of the Floridians have been very hospitable... ::MonkeyWink::



Ernesto    Arambatzis       

Graduation Year:   1994
City:   Porlamar
State:   NE
Country:   Venezuela


http://www.bradentonacademy.com/apps/directory/directory_item.jsp?REC_ID=131590&rn=1129278


This is the link, it goes to Bradenton Prep. School in Florida…It is not a college. The earliest we have placed him in Florida, so far is 1995, so he may have been in Venezuela.

We have also found him associated with an address in Bradenton, Florida….

Thanks for the info, once again...Have a great day!


Morning Mum! (just checking in one more time b4 I leave)

The 'Bradenton' aspect has also intrigued me but I've not had the chance to follow up yet.

Bradenton is a 'suburb' of Sarasota -- which in itself is funny because Sarasota is no 'cit'  ::MonkeyLaugh::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: sharon on June 28, 2008, 09:16:32 AM


Hi Sharon...most of the Floridians have been very hospitable... ::MonkeyWink::



Ernesto    Arambatzis       

Graduation Year:   1994
City:   Porlamar
State:   NE
Country:   Venezuela


http://www.bradentonacademy.com/apps/directory/directory_item.jsp?REC_ID=131590&rn=1129278


This is the link, it goes to Bradenton Prep. School in Florida…It is not a college. The earliest we have placed him in Florida, so far is 1995, so he may have been in Venezuela.

We have also found him associated with an address in Bradenton, Florida….

Thanks for the info, once again...Have a great day!


Morning Mum! (just checking in one more time b4 I leave)

The 'Bradenton' aspect has also intrigued me but I've not had the chance to follow up yet.

Bradenton is a 'suburb' of Sarasota -- which in itself is funny because Sarasota is no 'cit'  ::MonkeyLaugh::

(sorry -- I didn't think I hit 'post' but must have)

Anywhoo -- in 1995 the Sarasota/Bradenton area was in the throes of early development. Caters primarily to 'wealthy' retirees -- or 'wealthy' second home owners -- who were not interested in the multi-ethnicity of Florida's south east coast.

Lot's of 'banks' to handle 'trusts' -- if you get my drift.

Back in 1987 -- the Sarasota Bradenton airport resembled a beach shack  ::MonkeyLaugh::

Sarasota has tried to grow into an 'arsty fartsy' and cultural retirement image -- a 'mini 'Santa Fe' on Florida's south west coast.

I'm curious as to what (or who) brought Ernesto there at that time



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: vms on June 28, 2008, 09:51:10 AM
Brandenton Academy Search
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a398/vms58/Ernesto-BrandentonAcademy.jpg)

http://www.facebook.com/srch.php?hs=33568045&hr=&nm=ernesto+arambatzis



FIU Search
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a398/vms58/Ernesto-FIU.jpg)

http://www.facebook.com/srch.php?n=16777404&yr=&nm=ernesto+arambatzis


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 28, 2008, 10:48:04 AM
And my nagging question is..... Who paid for Ernesto's education?

My parents retired to the Sarasota area for about 20 years and I went to visit often.  There is a lot of "old money" in that town including the St. Armends area, old Sarasota, and Siesta Key.

Last March, Finbar popped in with some information.  I have no idea where Finbar got his information, but he gave us some clues that did pan out.  He told us that we would find the 5th suspect in the Solognier/Croes family tree.  Through this, we discovered that Rufo Solognier was Steve Croes' uncle/neighbor` and that Steve Croes was in that family tree. Are Freddy and Ernesto also in that family tree some place?  Finbar never told us that Steve was actually the 5th.  Is Freddy's biological father in that tree?  At that time, we hadn't linked Armin Solognier to Simian.

Finbar also gave us these clues....

"...Frenchman...."  Solognier
"Blue blood...."     Armin Solognier's claim that Simian was a blue blood
"Cousins"  Armin, Steve, anyone else?
"Crows"   
"South American"  Venezuela?
"Curacao"
"grandmother"  I think this is Steve's grandmother and Rufo Solognier's mother-in-law
"Insurance"
"Blogs"
"ALE"  Rufo is the retired ALE Chief and probably an information source for Armin
"Ex-monkey"  Aruba Girl
Fin3/19/08
Not Shango.

Search: Solaganier + genaruba


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 28, 2008, 10:53:23 AM
LOL...I have posted it three times...and each time I want it I have to search...going to save the links to my posts!... ::MonkeyHaHa::

the link is no longer available.

www.nbc4i.com/news/4593143/detail.html

Another Arrest Made In Case Of Missing Ala. Teen
POSTED: 9:38 am EDT June 10, 2005
UPDATED: 9:34 am EDT June 11, 2005

ORANJESTAD, Aruba -- Police in Aruba investigating the disappearance of an Alabama teenager made another arrest early Saturday. It comes just hours after police said one of three men recently arrested admitted "something bad had happened" to Natalee Holloway.

Police aren't commenting on the latest arrest, which was the sixth since Holloway went missing May 30.

Late Friday, one of three young men who took Holloway to the beach during her class trip to Aruba said "something bad happened" to her, police said.

The three men arrested by Aruban police early Thursday morning had been designated "persons of interest" in the case and were detained soon after Natalee Holloway's disappearance. Police officials questioned the trio, and then released them back to their families.

And more…..

This one from the AP about the same arrest:
By MICHAEL NORTON, Associated Press Writer

ORANJESTAD, Aruba - Police investigating the disappearance of an Alabama honors student in Aruba arrested a man at dawn Saturday, hours after one of three young men already in custody admitted "something bad happened" to the woman after they took her to the beach.

It was unclear if the 6 a.m. arrest was related to the admission. The same team of officers who arrested five others in the case during the past week went to a home just outside Oranjestad, the capital, and came out with a handcuffed man who looked to be in his 20s.

And then I posted:
OK....I just read that the arrest I posted above was NOT related to Natalee!

Next I posted:
Same arrest....now it didn't happen!

by Norman 'Gus' Thomas
Caribbean Net News Senior Regional Correspondent
E-mail: rc@caribbeannetnews.com
Saturday, June 11, 2005ORANJESTAD, Aruba:

Law enforcement officials in Aruba are calling recent reports coming out of the USA in relation to the disappearance of an Alabama teenager as "untrue and misleading." 18-year-old Natalee Holloway vanished May 29 after leaving an Oranjestad nightclub.

According to US reports, police in Aruba arrested a man on Saturday morning, after one of a trio that was previously held reportedly told police "something bad happened to her".

CNN's 2:00 pm report on Saturday stated that a senior police officer had told them that one of the three men arrested had confessed to killing Halloway.

Aruba police told Caribbean Net News Saturday that they have been engaged in an unsuccessful island-wide search for Holloway, who had come to the island with 124 other students from the USA to celebrate their graduation from Mountain Brook High School.

Caribbean Net News contacted CNN Headline News in Atlanta who said that they have reporters on the ground in Aruba and were adamant that they are sticking by their story.

However, officials in Aruba maintain that no confession was made and there has been no other arrest apart from the five made earlier.

According to one US report, police this morning visited a home on the outskirts of the capital city of Oranjestad and were later seen coming from the house with a young man wearing handcuffs, but the Aruba police have also denied this.

However, police did confirm to Caribbean Net News that, of the arrested trio, two are brothers and hail from Suriname while the other is a 17-year-old Dutchman who is the son of a top member of Aruba's legal circle.













The drama of the car chase was no doubt orchestrated to divert the media attention away from the 5th suspect who was brought in for questioning.  Who was protecting the 5th suspect?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 28, 2008, 11:45:09 AM
Here are the last names from the specific family tree that Finbar sent us to.  Remember, these are not the current one or two generations, because those names are not made public in most family trees.  This is what is making it so difficult to trace current cousins.  Who else is a cousin besides Steve Croes?

Croes (lots of them), van der Westen, van der Biest, van der Woestijne, Poppe, Specht, Solangier, Solognier, Castro, Ravine, Tromp, Lampe, xxxxxx, Henriques.  Imolda Satitia Saliana is the mother of Steve Croes.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 28, 2008, 11:59:00 AM
Are these names Familiar?  Gerald Oduber (19), Joe Oduber (23), Gos Oduber (46), Orson Oduber (20)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Kermit on June 28, 2008, 02:04:27 PM
Ernesto       Arambatzis             1994       Porlamar       NE       Venezuela
http://tinyurl.com/hzjel

(http://static.flickr.com/19/93972481_0885d65655.jpg)
Porlamar, Venezeula
(http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/9068/ernestoarambatzisev9.jpg)



LIVE WEB CAM (oops, don't scroll down if you are sensitive to natural booty) :D
from Isla Margarita, Portamar, Venezuela:
http://www.margaritainfo.com/webcam.htm


I posted the information on this thread here:
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1952.msg355376


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: finngirl on June 28, 2008, 03:56:46 PM
my responses in blue

Last March, Finbar popped in with some information.  I have no idea where Finbar got his information, but he gave us some clues that did pan out.  He told us that we would find the 5th suspect in the Solognier/Croes family tree.  Through this, we discovered that Rufo Solognier was Steve Croes' uncle/neighbor` and that Steve Croes was in that family tree. Are Freddy and Ernesto also in that family tree some place?  Finbar never told us that Steve was actually the 5th.  Is Freddy's biological father in that tree?  At that time, we hadn't linked Armin Solognier to Simian.

Finbar also gave us these clues....

"...Frenchman...." Solognier yes

"Blue blood...." Armin Solognier's claim that Simian was a blue blood
yes, altho fin would disagree that sim = Armin

"Cousins"  Armin, Steve, anyone else? AG

"Crows" finspeak for Croes ... AG/Steve Croes = cousins
 
"South American"  Venezuela? grandmother

"Curacao" grandmother

"grandmother"  I think this is Steve's grandmother and Rufo Solognier's mother-in-law
and related to AG as well

"Insurance" AG worked in gov't insurance bureau

"Blogs" AG was most prolific aruban blogger/summer '05
in terms of total posts/forum memberships

"ALE"  Rufo is the retired ALE Chief and probably an information source for Armin
and AG

"Ex-monkey"  Aruba Girl yes

Fin 3/19/08 um ... what's this? date of fin's post?

Not Shango. when fin's AG/sim theory hit the forums
AG denied being shango ... fin was like WTF?

Search: Solaganier + genaruba

FWIW:
fin's early conclusions/about 18 months ago
were reinforced when he worked AG's geneaology
in more depth recently

fin is one of the most logical/dogged thinkers
I've ever encountered
so I still agree w/ his theory that AG = sim

I did start this post w/ FWIW ... LOL ...
since I know that AG = sim  = unpopular

sim posing as male = plausible deniability ...
said deniability being one component of fin's theory ...
going underground = change important details

June 28 2005 2:21 am Robalo33:
J’aime mieux passer les temps avec un femme comme vous Simian 
translation: I would rather spend time with a woman like you Simian.

AG said that her female cuz was ALE
and also said: all 4 cops that I know worked the case

perhaps the same could be said re ALE cuz:
(fe)male cuz = plausible deniability

everyone did a great job w/ fin's clues
but just barely missed his true intention

he also thought one of the doppelgangers
may have been AG's mom, since they live together
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

... In politics and espionage, deniability refers to the ability of a "powerful player" or actor to avoid "blowback" by secretly arranging for an action to be taken on their behalf by a third party—ostensibly unconnected with the major player ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plausible_deniability



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 28, 2008, 04:07:37 PM
So, Ernesto went to school in Bradenton, but listed his hometown as Porlamar, Venezuela.  Maybe he didn't spend much time on Aruba.  Freddy might have only been on Aruba for a few years, himself.  If Urine said that Freddy spoke terrible English and didn't undertand Pap, then that means Freddy speaks Spanish.  Mum is right.  Would that also mean that Ernesto most likely speaks Spanish and he probably wouldn't realize it if someone insulted him in Pap?  Who paid for Ernesto's tuition at Bradenton and why didn't Freddy get the same deal?  I wonder if Ernesto and/or Freddy are related to the Mansurs who also have interests in that part of Venezuela. Could Lillian be a cousin or the mother of one or two of their illegitimate kids? 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 28, 2008, 04:18:32 PM
my responses in blue

Last March, Finbar popped in with some information.  I have no idea where Finbar got his information, but he gave us some clues that did pan out.  He told us that we would find the 5th suspect in the Solognier/Croes family tree.  Through this, we discovered that Rufo Solognier was Steve Croes' uncle/neighbor` and that Steve Croes was in that family tree. Are Freddy and Ernesto also in that family tree some place?  Finbar never told us that Steve was actually the 5th.  Is Freddy's biological father in that tree?  At that time, we hadn't linked Armin Solognier to Simian.

Finbar also gave us these clues....

"...Frenchman...." Solognier yes

"Blue blood...." Armin Solognier's claim that Simian was a blue blood
yes, altho fin would disagree that sim = Armin

"Cousins"  Armin, Steve, anyone else? AG

"Crows" finspeak for Croes ... AG/Steve Croes = cousins
 
"South American"  Venezuela? grandmother

"Curacao" grandmother

"grandmother"  I think this is Steve's grandmother and Rufo Solognier's mother-in-law
and related to AG as well

"Insurance" AG worked in gov't insurance bureau

"Blogs" AG was most prolific aruban blogger/summer '05
in terms of total posts/forum memberships

"ALE"  Rufo is the retired ALE Chief and probably an information source for Armin
and AG

"Ex-monkey"  Aruba Girl yes

Fin 3/19/08 um ... what's this? date of fin's post?

Not Shango. when fin's AG/sim theory hit the forums
AG denied being shango ... fin was like WTF?

Search: Solaganier + genaruba

FWIW:
fin's early conclusions/about 18 months ago
were reinforced when he worked AG's geneaology
in more depth recently

fin is one of the most logical/dogged thinkers
I've ever encountered
so I still agree w/ his theory that AG = sim

I did start this post w/ FWIW ... LOL ...
since I know that AG = sim  = unpopular

sim posing as male = plausible deniability ...
said deniability being one component of fin's theory ...
going underground = change important details

June 28 2005 2:21 am Robalo33:
J’aime mieux passer les temps avec un femme comme vous Simian 
translation: I would rather spend time with a woman like you Simian.

AG said that her female cuz was ALE
and also said: all 4 cops that I know worked the case

perhaps the same could be said re ALE cuz:
(fe)male cuz = plausible deniability

everyone did a great job w/ fin's clues
but just barely missed his true intention

he also thought one of the doppelgangers
may have been AG's mom, since they live together
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

... In politics and espionage, deniability refers to the ability of a "powerful player" or actor to avoid "blowback" by secretly arranging for an action to be taken on their behalf by a third party—ostensibly unconnected with the major player ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plausible_deniability





Finngirl - thanks for the explanation.  Since that time, some of us have come up with the theory that another cousin, Armin, is Simian and not AG.  Is there possibly a fourth cousin in that group who Finbar wanted us to look at?  Is there anyone else involved with Natalee's disappearance that could be part of that family tree and someone that Simian would want to protect?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 28, 2008, 04:25:24 PM
my responses in blue

Last March, Finbar popped in with some information.  I have no idea where Finbar got his information, but he gave us some clues that did pan out.  He told us that we would find the 5th suspect in the Solognier/Croes family tree.  Through this, we discovered that Rufo Solognier was Steve Croes' uncle/neighbor` and that Steve Croes was in that family tree. Are Freddy and Ernesto also in that family tree some place?  Finbar never told us that Steve was actually the 5th.  Is Freddy's biological father in that tree?  At that time, we hadn't linked Armin Solognier to Simian.

Finbar also gave us these clues....

"...Frenchman...." Solognier yes

"Blue blood...." Armin Solognier's claim that Simian was a blue blood
yes, altho fin would disagree that sim = Armin

"Cousins"  Armin, Steve, anyone else? AG

"Crows" finspeak for Croes ... AG/Steve Croes = cousins
 
"South American"  Venezuela? grandmother

"Curacao" grandmother

"grandmother"  I think this is Steve's grandmother and Rufo Solognier's mother-in-law
and related to AG as well

"Insurance" AG worked in gov't insurance bureau

"Blogs" AG was most prolific aruban blogger/summer '05
in terms of total posts/forum memberships

"ALE"  Rufo is the retired ALE Chief and probably an information source for Armin
and AG

"Ex-monkey"  Aruba Girl yes

Fin 3/19/08 um ... what's this? date of fin's post?

Not Shango. when fin's AG/sim theory hit the forums
AG denied being shango ... fin was like WTF?

Search: Solaganier + genaruba

FWIW:
fin's early conclusions/about 18 months ago
were reinforced when he worked AG's geneaology
in more depth recently

fin is one of the most logical/dogged thinkers
I've ever encountered
so I still agree w/ his theory that AG = sim

I did start this post w/ FWIW ... LOL ...
since I know that AG = sim  = unpopular

sim posing as male = plausible deniability ...
said deniability being one component of fin's theory ...
going underground = change important details

June 28 2005 2:21 am Robalo33:
J’aime mieux passer les temps avec un femme comme vous Simian 
translation: I would rather spend time with a woman like you Simian.

AG said that her female cuz was ALE
and also said: all 4 cops that I know worked the case

perhaps the same could be said re ALE cuz:
(fe)male cuz = plausible deniability

everyone did a great job w/ fin's clues
but just barely missed his true intention

he also thought one of the doppelgangers
may have been AG's mom, since they live together
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

... In politics and espionage, deniability refers to the ability of a "powerful player" or actor to avoid "blowback" by secretly arranging for an action to be taken on their behalf by a third party—ostensibly unconnected with the major player ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plausible_deniability






Finngirl - I guess this means that Finbar does feel that Steve Croes is the 5th suspect.  Do you know why he feels that Steve was the fifth one arrested?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: finngirl on June 28, 2008, 04:55:43 PM
Finngirl - I guess this means that Finbar does feel that Steve Croes is the 5th suspect.  Do you know why he feels that Steve was the fifth one arrested?

I think I can safely say that fin was
definitely looking in Steve's direction

but I think fin left just as the 5th suspect angle
was coming into its current heavy rotation,
so to speak

ie: fin was focused on Steve ...
but Steve's spot in the lineup wasn't the biggest factor

fin, do you agree?

hellllllooooo?




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: finngirl on June 28, 2008, 04:59:57 PM

a few days ago I posted re the quarry search
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

Mon June 27, 2005
4:00 am shango:
Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon with his 12:30 posting.


there are late-morning reports that 2 search dogs have "hit"

5 hour break: no sim/no shango ...
then genuine sim interspersed w/ poser sim:

9:13 am simian:
Lack of evidence is not proof of innocence. The cowboys are looking everywhere, but the land and waters hold many secrets. The Babylonians need to keep an eye on the cowboys. The process muct be protected. The ravers need to be pinched.


etc/etc ...
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

what I meant to do/neglected to do
was to highlight the "sim poser" posts,
altho ... today I can't find the list

also, one labeled as fake makes much sense
in the context of the conversation ...
ie: sim is being impersonated, yet this one is fake?

June 27, 2005
I have not left. I do not want to be copied however and would like to stay and speak.


also, I've seen conversation in the last few pages
re fake posts from the time of the retracted confession/june 10
and the fakes I posted are from about three weeks later

does anyone have the "fake list" or know where it is?
TIA



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: finngirl on June 28, 2008, 05:16:07 PM
Finngirl - thanks for the explanation.  Since that time, some of us have come up with the theory that another cousin, Armin, is Simian and not AG.  Is there possibly a fourth cousin in that group who Finbar wanted us to look at?  Is there anyone else involved with Natalee's disappearance that could be part of that family tree and someone that Simian would want to protect?

no, because fin's focus was on AG ...
which is why he used her geneaology links

altho he was also fond of saying that
one could not sling a Yoruban priest w/o hitting a Croes ...
Teresa/Mariaine/Rudy/etc ... ?

 :wink:



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Blonde on June 28, 2008, 05:47:49 PM
fin is one of the most logical/dogged thinkers
I've ever encountered...

Me too


Some people have huge amounts of information because they have a type of photographic memory. ... Einstein said most people can be a genius if they are willing, and they have a large enought head and ears to hold all of this info. I think Finbar does.
 
Finbar is  also very funny he gave me this picture of himself he said he was the better looking one, the one with out the drawl.


(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/Fun%20stuff/huh.jpg)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Blonde on June 28, 2008, 05:52:27 PM
Finbar I miss your brain. ::MonkeyCool::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: vms on June 28, 2008, 05:53:04 PM
GUILTY PLEASURES LAUNCH PARTY AT AERO BAR

Information
Event Info Host: JOSHUA MENENDEZ, PICO, ERICA FRESHMEN, ERNESTO ARAMBATZIS, RICK SARILE AND 
Type: Party - Club Party
Time and Place Start Time: Thursday, July 3, 2008 at 10:00pm
End Time: Friday, July 4, 2008 at 5:00am
Location: AERO BAR
Street: 247 23RD ST
City/Town: Miami Beach, FL

http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=17461908655


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 28, 2008, 07:37:28 PM
So, Ernesto went to school in Bradenton, but listed his hometown as Porlamar, Venezuela.  Maybe he didn't spend much time on Aruba.  Freddy might have only been on Aruba for a few years, himself.  If Urine said that Freddy spoke terrible English and didn't undertand Pap, then that means Freddy speaks Spanish.  Mum is right.  Would that also mean that Ernesto most likely speaks Spanish and he probably wouldn't realize it if someone insulted him in Pap?  Who paid for Ernesto's tuition at Bradenton and why didn't Freddy get the same deal?  I wonder if Ernesto and/or Freddy are related to the Mansurs who also have interests in that part of Venezuela. Could Lillian be a cousin or the mother of one or two of their illegitimate kids? 

SS…Joran said that Freddy ONLY spoke Pap. Spanish is the language of Venezuela, no Pap anywhere that I could find! Dutch is taught in Aruban schools, as is English…so what nationality would that make Freddy, Joran’s light skinned Latino friend?

I would assume that Ernesto speaks English and Spanish. If he did in fact do courses through Bradenton Prep,he could have learnt English. I came up empty on the accredited schools in Venezuela tied to Bradenton Prep. I would think this would still be expensive, but really do not know. I don’t know if Ernesto is from Porlamar, or if he just went to school there. It is on Isla Margarita.

Lilian was born in Aruba, according to the Chamber records that vms posted the other day. All the Arambatzis, that were found were listed in the Arambatzis thread. It is a Greek name, and that had a lot to do with my connections.

I can’t make a connection between Ernesto and Freddy, and it becomes even more confusing when you add the Zedan and Rodriguez. I would love for some-one to find another path or something that was overlooked...maybe then the pieces would fit! Will keep plodding away at it though!

Freddy stated that he was from Maracaibo, on a site that vms posted with the pic of Ghis. The Mansur family have ties to Maracaibo, Caracus and 2 other places in Venezuela. These places and Porlamar are not close to each other.

Thanks for the links Kermit to Porlamar and Bradenton Prep., and for all informative posts today everyone…


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: vms on June 28, 2008, 08:08:38 PM
FWIW

Caracas is listed as his hometown on facebook...


(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a398/vms58/Ernesto-Caracas.jpg)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 28, 2008, 08:11:26 PM
SS…I like your thoughts on the events of the day of the reported arrest. A diversion! So who could be that important? IIRC it was reported to be outside the capital, and I thought I recalled a poster saying it looked like the same house that Joran was arrested from on the 6/9.  So who has a similar looking house, or who could have been at Joran’s house?

Finngirl…Since you have a great memory and seem to be able to locate the posts relevant to dates, do you recall what was happening in the days prior to July 15th.?  I have been reading Mirian’s posts and they seem to be pointing directly at Freddy.

I am wondering why some-one like Tommy Pooch would insert himself into the case! Is it a coincidence that Ernesto Arambatzis was inserted later on?

Again, Thanks for bringing FP posts over, I seem to be stuck on one thread and haven’t got past it…Any info you can share on Checkme, Anbennett, Vanessa or any others FP posters would be appreciated…TIA

Vms...Thanks on Caracus...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 28, 2008, 09:30:53 PM
So, Ernesto went to school in Bradenton, but listed his hometown as Porlamar, Venezuela.  Maybe he didn't spend much time on Aruba.  Freddy might have only been on Aruba for a few years, himself.  If Urine said that Freddy spoke terrible English and didn't undertand Pap, then that means Freddy speaks Spanish.  Mum is right.  Would that also mean that Ernesto most likely speaks Spanish and he probably wouldn't realize it if someone insulted him in Pap?  Who paid for Ernesto's tuition at Bradenton and why didn't Freddy get the same deal?  I wonder if Ernesto and/or Freddy are related to the Mansurs who also have interests in that part of Venezuela. Could Lillian be a cousin or the mother of one or two of their illegitimate kids? 

SS…Joran said that Freddy ONLY spoke Pap. Spanish is the language of Venezuela, no Pap anywhere that I could find! Dutch is taught in Aruban schools, as is English…so what nationality would that make Freddy, Joran’s light skinned Latino friend?

I would assume that Ernesto speaks English and Spanish. If he did in fact do courses through Bradenton Prep,he could have learnt English. I came up empty on the accredited schools in Venezuela tied to Bradenton Prep. I would think this would still be expensive, but really do not know. I don’t know if Ernesto is from Porlamar, or if he just went to school there. It is on Isla Margarita.

Lilian was born in Aruba, according to the Chamber records that vms posted the other day. All the Arambatzis, that were found were listed in the Arambatzis thread. It is a Greek name, and that had a lot to do with my connections.

I can’t make a connection between Ernesto and Freddy, and it becomes even more confusing when you add the Zedan and Rodriguez. I would love for some-one to find another path or something that was overlooked...maybe then the pieces would fit! Will keep plodding away at it though!

Freddy stated that he was from Maracaibo, on a site that vms posted with the pic of Ghis. The Mansur family have ties to Maracaibo, Caracus and 2 other places in Venezuela. These places and Porlamar are not close to each other.

Thanks for the links Kermit to Porlamar and Bradenton Prep., and for all informative posts today everyone…




Mum - we need to have Kermit explain his post with the pictures.  I understood the post as Ernesto graduated from Bradenton and his hometown was Porlamar.  I don't know if Bradenton is tied to Venezuela, but I don't think so.  Their website said something about expanding to the Middle East somewhere, but I don't recall anything about Venezuela.  We need to grab Kermit for an explanation.  I think Ernesto was a boarding student in Bradenton.  From what I read on the website, the internet classes are for the kids enrolled at the school.  These schools pay a fee and courses can be available from other schools.  It's cheaper than hiring more teachers.  I didn't see anything about students from other locations being able to access classes at Bradenton.

So, I had it backwards.  Freddy only speaks Pap so that would put him in Aruba or Curacao, not in Venezuela.  If his mother was from Venezuela wouldn't he have learned some Spanish at home?  I can't understand no Dutch or English, especially if his mother is Dutch.  Who is Freddy and where is he from?

Your Freddy thread is great.  Nice work.

Does anyone know the names and ages of Jossy Mansur's children?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 28, 2008, 09:56:31 PM
Silverfox
Sending you email. 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 28, 2008, 11:20:38 PM
LaLa's sharpen your pencils because this one is out of the box.

The 5th suspect has an alibi so string. It has everybody baffled.  The 5th was a boyfriend from earlier in the week.  The party-goers said the 5th one was with them.  He was the host.  How could he have left.  A jealous boyfriend was at home with some friends.  He couldn’t have done it.  Sometimes friends will cover for each other.  He had to be let go.  I did not say an ex.  Girl goes out with cool and crazy guy in casino.  After a couple of days girl meets another boy in casino.  This makes first guy really mad.  So he confronts second boy.  However, the first guy has an airtight alibi.   Some friends say that they were at  home with him. Until morning.  He has an alibi. So tight. So tight.  The first guy has the motive.  The seond guy is scared sh*tless in a cell.  It was a simple party at his house.  He was “the whole time”.

In light of what we now know about Joran’s sexual activities and considering that we identified JR and JC as party-goers several months ago, this story might not be about jealousy over a girl.  What if it is jealousy between two guys?   The first guy almost has to be older and has his own house.  We originally thought LVR, but LVR wouldn’t be having a romance with his half brother.  What young kid could have a party on a school night where his friends stayed until morning?  What if Natalee just hung out with a guy she met in the casino for some fun and then a few days later met up with Joran.  Guy number one is attracted to Joran and gets mad because Joran was with Natalee when he arrived at the Matty Apts. - so something bad happened to Natalee.  He was jealous of Natalee.  Who besides Guido might have had a romance with Joran? Guido didn’t have his own house – he was still in school.  Joran’s friends didn’t live in Oranjestadt.   Who had a house where friends could party and stay all night?  One of JC’s friends is Davin.  JC had his own house and his gay friends would cover for him and say they stayed all night.  JR could even say that she was at his party because they’re friends and he’s her boss.  Who’s going to doubt the madame when she offers a tight alibi for him?  This guy didn’t stay in jail at all because his alibi was so tight.  They had to let him go.  Who said the alibi played for the Sloots?  Was JC the 5th?  Did JR set up the car chase that morning as a diversion because her sources told her that ALE was coming to arrest JC and she had to protect him from the media?  It wasn’t a BonDia reporter that looked like an idiot in the end.  Davin is JC's friend who helped his buddy dispose of Natalee.  JR owns the tourist boat with the banana boat behind it.  Davin could easily have left for Holland the next morning and he has recently moved to New Zealand.  Didn’t Patrick say that he had left Holland?  When the suspect was arrested on the 11th, he was described as being in his 20s - not a 17 year old kid.  JC is now 34.  The 5th was a boyfriend from earlier in the week, but not a boyfriend of Natalee - a boyfriend of Joran.  Natalee met a guy and then a boy.  The first one was not a boy like Joran.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on June 29, 2008, 12:15:03 AM
FWIW

Caracas is listed as his hometown on facebook...


(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a398/vms58/Ernesto-Caracas.jpg)

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8324495619079239444&q=source:008846888706825669709&hl=en

 at 15 seconds.

Is this the same person?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Observer on June 29, 2008, 12:31:16 AM

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8324495619079239444&q=source:008846888706825669709&hl=en

 at 15 seconds.

Is this the same person?

I do not think that is Ernesto..But he does resemble Michael Dompig.MO

(http://img380.imageshack.us/img380/7399/blonde1br6.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: finngirl on June 29, 2008, 02:42:34 AM

Mum: not sure what you're looking for ...
grabbed some highlights from worldjournier timeline
http://members.aol.com/worldJOURNIER/NATALEE/NATALEEtimeline.html

On 7-6 CNN reported:
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: … Developments in the Natalee Holloway investigation. Can eyewitnesses link a car owned by the van der Sloot family to the beach where Natalee disappeared? Reaction ahead from Natalee's mother and stepfather.
(CNN did not report further on NATALEE during that segment)
_ _ _

On 7-6 Senator SHELBY stated that the Dutch Ambassador to the U.S. has suggested that SHELBY get the U.S. Navy deep diving team involved in the search. SHELBY said he has written the U.S. Secretary of the Navy for that help.
_ _ _

On 7-6 FOX News GRETA VAN SUSTEREN reported that she spoke with DEEPAK in his bedroom and he claimed to her that he and JORAN are no longer friends because JORAN has made 14 different written and signed statements implicating DEEPAK. GRETA reported that she saw no computer in his bedroom, and he told her that the ARUBAN Police still have it. GRETA reported that DEEPAK  claimed to her that while he was in jail he was shown Prime JORAN's written and signed statements by interrogators and he told GRETA that “he‘s trying to put me into it“. GRETA did not interview SATISH.
_ _ _

On 7-6 MSNBC reported:
JOE SCARBOROUGH, HOST: Tonight's top headline: outrage in Aruba, as protesters target Natalee Holloway's mother.
_ _ _

On 7-7 it was reported that the Hixon, Tennessee-based, “Tennessee Search and Rescue Dog Association” team of 3 divers, a search dog and her handler were requested by Aruban officials to help in the search.

The Chattanooga-based search team is expected to assist in the Holloway investigation for six days. Divers Dale Hicks and John Scruggs are experts in collecting evidence during dives. Lisa Canfield said authorities in Aruba contacted them because they believe the team's nationally certified canine could help.
_ _ _

On July 8-12, 2005, VideoRay was invited by the Florida State University Underwater Crime Scene Investigation team to assist them in the search for Natalee Holloway in Aruba in underwater areas that have been otherwise inaccessible to search teams that were already there. These locations included a shoreline cave, a lagoon and a quarry. Texas EquuSearch is the organization that is leading the search effort.
_ _ _

On 7-8 BETH HOLLOWAY-TWITTY gave an apology to the ARUBANs via the media.
_ _ _
 
On 7-8 it was announced that 3 judges will hold appeal hearings on 7-12 to either free or retain JORAN, and to take back into custody DEEPAK and SATISH.
_ _ _

On 7-8 “Holiday Inn” security guard SOLVERT RENESKA gave statement to ALE.
_ _ _

On 7-8 the “National Enquirer” reported:
DESPERATE LAST CRY FOR HELP THAT COULD TRAP ARUBA KILLERS
A desperate last phone call from missing Natalee Holloway could provide police with a vital link to the killers in the Aruba murder case. The National Enquirer has discovered what may have been a last cry for help by the 18-year-old honors student.

Shortly after she was last seen alive, she left a message on a close friend's cell phone. Chillingly, a sinister male voice is heard in the background asking Natalee: "Are you calling home?"

An insider in the investigation said: "Her friend believes it could have been the last call from Natalee, who was in trouble and desperate for help."
_ _ _

In a stunning development on July 4, two of the three suspects in the case — brothers Deepak Kalpoe, 21, and Katish Kalpoe, 18 — were released from custody. The prime suspect, Joran van der Sloot, 17, was ordered to be detained for 60 more days for continued interrogation.

On 7-9 PAT HURLEY wrote:
The Heart Of The Natalee Holloway Case: Joran's Timeline And Lies

At the heart of this mystery lies two facts that are intriguing....

First, Joran van der Sloot has continually changed his story since leaving the Carlos and Charlie's with Natalee Holloway. Secondly, it is documented that the Kalpoe brothers dropped he and Natalee off at 1:30 a.m. He text messaged them at 2:15 a.m. asking for a ride home. Forty minutes later he texts them again and tells them he is home. Since he has lied constantly about his story, there is reason to believe he is lying to them when he sends the message that he is "home." If he indeed IS home, then he either handed Natalee off to someone else or she met her fate after he left making him the unluckiest schmuck on the planet. There was no time for a teenage boy to kill a human being by himself and get rid of her body on a beach near the Marriott in...forty minutes.

If he was not at home then, he sent the text message to cover his timeline. This would have given him and whoever picked him up TIME to dispose of Natalee's body. In that case, the mystery shifts to...who would Joran call if he was in big trouble? The answer is, either his friends or his dad.
_ _ _

On 7-11 DUTCH news-sourced “Expatica” reported:
Dutch Air Force ends Holloway search
AMSTERDAM — Three F-16 fighter jets are to return to base in the Netherlands after being withdrawn from the increasingly-frustrating search for missing US teen Natalee Holloway.
_ _ _

From her detailed journal, BETH stated that on 7-11 BETH had a meeting with ARUBA Prosecutor KARIN JANSSEN where JANSSEN said that ARUBAN Police have documented records that JORAN made a cellular phone call and text-messaged a message to DEEPAK's computer at his home at 3:30 AM on 5-30. JORAN’s 3:30 AM text-message simply was “Thanks. I’m home.” JANSSEN also told BETH that there was an 8-and-a-half minute call between JORAN's cel phone DEEPAK's cel phone--the longest call ever recorded between the two boys' phones.
_ _ _

On 7-11 the ST. MAARTEN “Daily Herald” reported:
Court hears appeals in missing girl probe
ARUBA--The Court heard five appeals on Tuesday against decisions of the examining judge in the disappearance of US teenager Natalee Holloway in Aruba, with the rulings scheduled for Thursday afternoon.

The appeals include four from the prosecution, of which two are against the release of the Kalpoe bothers. The other two are against lifting restrictions for the only suspect still detained, Joran, including admitting his lawyers to interrogation sessions.

Van der Sloot in turn is appealing the decision to prolong his detention. He admits he was left alone with the girl at Fishermen’s Hut by the two brothers before she vanished, but says he left her there when one of the brothers picked him up later, something they both deny doing.
_ _ _

On 7-11 FOX News reported:
GRETA VAN SUSTEREN: Some explosive new details are emerging about the night Natalee Holloway disappeared. The Aruban newspaper Diario broke the news on their front page on Monday. Joining us live from Aruba with the inside scoop is Diario's managing editor, Jossy Mansur.

VAN SUSTEREN: Jossy, let me get straight to the main thing that struck everybody reading that article today, that Joran van der Sloot claimed to the police to have buried Natalee. Is that right?

JOSSY MANSUR, DIARIO MANAGING EDITOR: That's correct, Greta. That happened on the second day of interrogations.

VAN SUSTEREN: Do you know when he supposedly made that statement to the police? Was it early on in his detention, or even before his detention or later?

MANSUR: No, it was when they had let them free. And when he came back, they (INAUDIBLE) him in as a suspect. On the second day of that detention, he broke down completely. He cried, and he admitted to the police, he confessed to the police that, we buried Natalee.

VAN SUSTEREN: Did he say where he'd buried Natalee?

MANSUR: He gave them indications. They put him in a police car. They brought him over here to the north of the Marriott Hotel, and he pointed towards some indistinct area by the fishermen's huts. Those are huts that the fishermen use them to guard their equipment, their nets, their knives, whatever they use in fishing.
_ _ _

On 7-12 PAUL REYNOLDS told MSNBC, “I know that my sister had a meeting with the FBI June 10, Friday. And from that meeting, she became convinced that Natalee was no longer alive. She called her mother and told her that. And our family was—was—began the grieving process. You know, we were told the report would come out the next day. Later that night, we saw the reports that confessions had been made, that something bad had happened. Shortly thereafter, it was retracted. The next morning, there was a report that said Natalee was confirmed dead. And these reports came from the deputy commissioner. They came from the spokesperson from the Ministry of Justice. And then, all of a sudden, these statements and these confessions just disappeared.” “I am not aware of any follow-up information. You know, this seemed to disappear from sight, these confessions did. At the time, we thought that because the investigation is kept secret, we thought it was ongoing, and maybe they just didn't want to release it officially at that time. But, as we see that the appeals, the hearings are showing there's no evidence, but yet we have these confessions, it doesn't make any sense. It's as if they are being hidden or taken away.”
_ _ _

On 7-12 Prosecutor KARIN JANSSEN also presented evidence to the judge from prosecutors, seeking to overturn an order allowing van der SLOOT's father to visit his son while he's in custody (this was reported to be the fourth appeal by the prosecutors to block PAULUS from interacting with JORAN ).
_ _ _

On 7-12 MSNBC reported:
SCARBOROUGH: You are looking at pictures of Joran van der Sloot. He's in the back seat of a Police car with his head down, leaving the Aruban courthouse. Obviously, Aruba and America focused on this young man, the key suspect in the case.

ANITA VAN DER SLOOT: Joran is a 17-year-old teenager. He is a fantastic tall guy. He's a sporter. He plays tennis on the island, soccer, volley ball, softball. He is a boy who will come out of his bed and give his mom a hug. And, hi mom. How are you? Have a nice day. He is a very warm young boy.

SCARBOROUGH: What has he told you about Natalee?

VAN DER SLOOT: He hasn't told me anything, because, on the Monday, he went to school, like any normal boy. And he wasn't aware of—he was totally surprised when the Police asked him to come to the—or picked him up for interrogation. He was totally surprised. He really thought that the girl would be safe in the hotel and there was no reason to talk about her at all.

SCARBOROUGH: You know, there are a lot of parents, obviously, that obviously would never want to be in this sort of situation. But if you are in this sort of situation, what do you, what do your husband tell your son to get him through these difficult times?

VAN DER SLOOT: You know, we have three children, two in teenage ages.

And we always tell the kids to tell the truth, to—and Joran is not a—he is a good child, but he is, of course, not a model child, because he has his mistakes. And he cheated, and he kicks his brothers, and he does things any ordinary 17-year-old teenager would do, but we always try to talk.

We are a very close family. We spend a lot of time talking about problems in the world. We look at news. We see things happen that are evil and that are wrong, and we warn the kids about drugs, about alcohol, the consequences that are there. Throughout the education at the international school, a lot of time is spent there, too, to make the kids conscious about all kind of risks they can take or not—they cannot take, and about responsibility, about respect for others.

We are living on a multicultural island, and we always try to raise the kids with—see what's in the heart of people. Don't focus on the outside. Listen to people. Be respectful.

SCARBOROUGH: Right.

VAN DER SLOOT: If they go out, be careful. Don't go out alone.

Always go with friends. Be aware that things can happen.
_ _ _

On 7-12 “Riehl World View” blog identity “Lago girl” reported:
I am very frustrated that the FSU forensic divers never searched Boca Mahos...they could have found evidence of Natalee Holloway there...I am certain of it.

Now who will do that job? My childhood friends who used to skin dive and spearfish in there are way beyond the task, now.

So difficult to be so far away and a voice in the wilderness...no one has answered my emails to Greta, Texas Equusearch, MSNBC, Aruba Today.
I know that area of sea has to be the place they tossed the lifeless body of Natalee Holloway...or it has to be ruled out.

Someone in Aruba, please contact the Texas Equusearch Mr. Miller about the probability that a dead body would most likely be tossed over the cliff at Boca Mahos...the old garbage dump into the sea where the sharks were fed.
I was born in the Lago Hospital of the American oil refinery in Aruba and lived in the company town, Lago Colony (Seroe Colorado) all of my childhood and youth, until leaving for college in the States.

All of my Lago friends who grew up in Aruba, including the boys who loved nothing more than skin diving and spearfishing, swam all of those waters with only flippers, snorkle and mask and their trusty spearguns.
All of my Lago friends who grew up in Aruba, including the boys who loved nothing more than skin diving and spearfishing, swam all of those waters with only flippers, snorkle and mask and their trusty spearguns.

They all agree that by far, the fastest and easiest and surest way to dispose of a dead body would be to run over to Boca Mahos from Noord, drive up to the edge of the cliff and toss the body out into the crashing waves over the shear drop of the undercut cliff.

Look at Boca Mahos and the boys I grew up with jumping into the sea as teenagers...

This boca, cove, if you will, MUST be searched by the Navy Seals and the Florida State University forensic divers...or they will have missed the MOST LIKELY PLACE to dump a dead body to hide it forever.

If they dive and search that boca, they will find some traces of Natalee...I am sure...very very very sure.

All of my Aruba friends who know the island as well as I do, and beter, agree...dive in Boca Mahos...and you will find something...

…So, it is imperative that the modern day boys of the Navy and FSU go diving to see what they can find in Boca Mahos...the boys of Lago Colony would go, again, taking only photos, and leaving only bubbles...for they loved being in the sea more than anything in the life of a teenage lad lucky enough to be born and grow up in Aruba...nothing in our lives will ever be better than the childhoods we were granted by Fate...that our American and Dutch and British parents worked for Lago Oil and we lived in Aruba.

Please search Boca Mahos...that is the only place that makes any sense...

Sue Gravendijk
daughter of Arie Gravendijk, head cashier, Lago Oil and Transport Co., Ltd, Aruba “
Posted by: Lago girl | Tuesday, July 12, 2005 at 07:36 PM
_ _ _

On 7-12 the "Texas EquuSearch" team received an in-person tip from an ARUBAN man who gave them a specific location that needed to be searched on the north side of the island within “Arikok National Park” VERY CLOSE TO THE SHARK-INFESTED “BACO MAHOS” GARBAGE DUMP SITE. When the team got there, about 100’ from the road they found an open 4’ deep and 6’ long hole that TIM MILLER stated, “certainly looks like a grave site that was possibly dug up.” TIM MILLER also said something “definitely was buried,” the hole was “manmade, remote, had easy access yet hard to see. Perfect.”
_ _ _

On 7-13 TITO LACLE reported to FOX News that he learned from one of the suspect's attorneys that there is evidence consisting of text-messages sent after 5-31 between one of the KALPOEs to friends (not JORAN) in the form of an Internet chat. LACLE reported that some of the F-16 flyover evidence is in. (there is a rumor that the F-16s found suspicious tire tracks at a remote location). LACLE also said that JORAN has 3 lawyers. LACLE reported that van der SLOOT’s lawyers are communicating with one or both of the KALPOE attorneys.
_ _ _

On 7-13 ARLENE ELLIS-SCHIPPER, member of the ARUBA “STRATEGIC COMMUNICATIONS TASK FORCE,” claimed to FOX News that the evidence against Prime Murder Suspect JORAN VAN DER SLOOT was, “thin, thin, thin” and he may be freed.
_ _ _

“East Texas Canine Search and Rescue” left ARUBA on 7-13.
_ _ _

On 7-13 FOX News GRETA VAN SUSTEREN wrote in her “Gretawire“ blog, “Feeling a bit "land-locked" Tuesday [7-12], I made a bunch of phone calls to Aruba to get more information. I spoke briefly — very briefly – with Police commissioner Jan van der Straten. He was not very "chatty" when I identified myself as part of the media, but he was polite... very polite. Getting information out of the Police commissioner is a bit like "pulling teeth," but when I confronted him about the report in the Aruban paper (that Joran allegedly said in an interrogation that he buried Natalee), he said, "I don't recognize it." I replied, "Does that mean it did not happen?" He responded, "I don't recognize it." Thinking he had not heard me, I tried again and he again said, "I don't recognize it." I then said, "Would you know if it had happened that way? Would you know if Joran said in an interrogation that he buried Natalee?" He then responded, "Yes." Our conversation ended there. So... I report what I hear, but leave it to you to decide how much weight to give the newspaper article and the commissioner's remarks. The Aruban paper claims to have good sources. Tuesday night the managing editor of the paper was on our show and he insists his information is good. I also reached the chief prosecutor on the phone yesterday. She tried to get me off the phone as fast as she could (I would not describe her as "chatty.") I asked her a series of questions about procedure — and learned that she did not argue the case yesterday since it is an appeal. Her senior handles appeals. The judges who will decide the detention issues for all three are from a neighboring island —- and there are three judges, not one, who make this decision.”
_ _ _

On 7-14 FOX News GRETA VAN SUSTEREN responded to an emailer and wrote in her “Gretawire” blog:
E-mail No. 2
Is there any truth to the article in The National Enquirer about Natalee calling a friend on her cell phone that last night?
Virginia Van Delist

ANSWER: Here is what I know about a phone call: Apparently a friend of Natalee's received a call to his voice mail/answering machine. There was background noise and then someone said something like, "Are you calling home?" As far as I know the phones were then disconnected and nothing else was recorded. I do not know if that call was from Natalee or from her cell phone or one she may have used.

Incidentally, not all USA cell phone service works in Aruba. My AT&T cell phone works there, but my Verizon cell phone does not. And yes — I know — what kind of person has two cell phones? It is a bit nutty but I have two cell phones with different service. Why? For the very reason that some times I am in areas where service is limited.

One other thing about the phone call — it is not clear when it was received by the person receiving the message.
_ _ _

On 7-14 the 3 appeals judges agreed that JORAN should remain in custody until his next hearing on 9-2. (Sometime before 7-12 the charges were changed to “serious suspicion of murder, manslaughter or intentional containment with the death as consequence” of NATALEE, and DEEPAK and SATISH KALPOE should remain free. After the 3 judges appeals rulings on 7-14, WERNET read a prepared statement and stated in part, “…there is ‘serious suspicion’to keep Joran van der S. in custody” …and…

"He was in her company and gave varying statements about what happened then and afterwards" The ruling also said that JORAN had recently changed his account of the night of HOLLOWAY's disappearance and authorities need time to investigate the new version.
_ _ _

TITO LACLE reported to FOX News on July 19, 2005 that on July 14, 2005 the prosecutors requested saliva from JORAN VAN DER SLOOT, DEEPAK and SATISH but all they refused to provide their sample.
_ _ _

On 7-14 DILMA ARENDS reported that evidence in the form of cellular phone tracking records of JORAN pinpoint that he did make a 4:00 AM cellular phone call. ARENDS also alluded that the forensics may have pinpointed precisely from where JORAN placed the cellular phone call. ARENDS also said that at 4:00 AM DEEPAK was home, but after receiving the cellular phone call he left his home and then went to the Marriott Hotel location.
_ _ _

On 7-14 SATISH's lawyer said that there was “new evidence” presented 7-12 by the prosecutor, but that “new evidence” was not relevant to SATISH and the “new evidence” was “probably not” relevant to JORAN.
_ _ _

On 7-14 ELLIS-SCHIPPER, member of the ARUBA “STRATEGIC COMMUNICATIONS TASK FORCE,” stated to FOX News that apparently the judges agree that the actions by JORAN are “evidently deceitful” and because JORAN was retained under arrest that the judges think there “has to be a crime that has occurred against NATALEE.”
_ _ _

On 7-14 FOX News GERALDO RIVERA reported that “the fishermen witnesses near the Marriott Hotel say the kids were nowhere near the beach” in the morning hours of 5-30. RIVERA mentioned that van der STRATEN will be retiring in August 2005.
_ _ _

On 7-14 TITO LACLE reported to FOX News that his investigation, which included he and his colleagues speaking with JORAN's classmates about JORAN’s character, reveals that JORAN is a “different person” by day than he is at night. LACLE claims that JORAN has “different attitudes, depending on who he is with,” that JORAN is “short-tempered,” and that on 5-30 JORAN had a noticeably blackened eye when he went to school--with JORAN claiming that he received the blackened eye in a fight with his friends while he was at "Carlos 'n Charlie's" after midnight on 5-29.
_ _ _

On 7-15 FOX News GRETA VAN SUSTEREN reported that she had spoken to the mother of a school student male witness about JORAN showing up at school the morning of 5-30 with a very noticeable bruise on his cheek.
_ _ _

On 7-15 BETH HOLLOWAY-TWITTY stated that an Aruban woman had called her said she just wanted to make sure that BETH knew that JORAN had a bruise on his face the morning of 5-30 at school.
_ _ _

On 7-15 TITO LACLE reported to FOX News that a colleague reporter had gone to JORAN ’s school on 6-9. When LACLE’s colleague asked about JORAN to a person at the school he was told, “Oh, you mean that boy with the bruise.”
_ _ _

On 7-15 FOX News GRETA VAN SUSTEREN stated that when she spoke to a Police official that day that “he gave me a wink and a nod“ that GRETA interpreted as the Police do not have enough evidence to prosecute a case.
_ _ _

On 7-15 CNN reported that the FBI has asked on more than one occasion to take a close look at what's been gathered so far, for example, statements made, interviews conducted, evidence collected, etc to try to give a fresh perspective to things. The FBI has been turned down on more than one occasion to get a look at this information. The FBI profile of NATALEE was provided ARUBAN investigators on one occasion. A Dutch profiler who has also been provided in on this case has offered advice, for example, on techniques in interviewing JORAN, and that advice has not been used, apparently.

ARUBAN government spokespeople and a spokesperson for the prosecutor's office were asked about not using FBI Experienced suggestions for interrogation. According to one ARUBAN source, the local rules don't allow the FBI, which is actively not participating but observing and assisting, to look at this information. According to the government spokesperson and the prosecutor's office, "They're assisting us. We're thinking about it. We're allowing them to do certain things, and not allowing them to do others."
_ _ _

BETH also stated that she found out 7-15 that the ARUBAN Police Investigators have never asked the DEA agent for a statement on what he witnessed and heard during the 5-31 early morning encounters between the TWITTYs and SLOOTs.
_ _ _

On 7-15 NADIRA RAMIREZ told FOX News she thinks NATALEE is still alive. She also said that the brothers are not “sporters,” so they “just drive around” when they go out driving NADIRA RAMIREZ “only on the weekends.”
_ _ _

On 7-15 ERIC SOEMERS took over as ARUBAN Police commissioner when van der STRATEN went on a pre-retirement “vacation.”
_ _ _

On 7-15 the “National Enquirer” reported:
HOW NATALEE WAS KILLED
Dutch teenager Joran van der Sloot confessed to his father that he dumped Natalee Holloway's body in shark-infested waters after she accidentally hit her head and drowned in a drug-induced stupor on an Aruban beach.

Dooley said the clerk at the clothing store told him that she and her husband are very good friends with Joran's dad, Paulus van der Sloot, and his wife, Anita. Her own son had attended school with Joran on the island and was a close pal.

The clerk told Dooley: "Joran told his father that he and Natalee had all been drinking and taking drugs at the nightclub. The father specifically mentioned they took Ecstasy. Joran told his father that when they left the club, they went to a beach on the island. Natalee was very ill and threw up several times.

"Then she fell and hit her head on something. Joran checked her and realized she was dead.

"Joran and others discussed an appropriate place to dump Natalee's body, a specific place where someone would disappear forever... a spot on the island where the waters are shark-infested."

Arubaans know the shark-feeding spot very well and directed a National Enquirer reporter to its location on the rugged north coast of the island, where the ocean pounds the rocks and few people live.

The water there is deep and murky and sits beneath a high cliff, far away from the beautiful beaches and posh hotel casinos on the island's southern side.
_ _ _

On 7-16 the Police took JORAN (and one of his attorneys) back to the stretch of beach near the Marriott Hotel, including the fishermen’s huts, as on 6-11 JORAN was reported to have confessed to Police interrogators that is where “WE buried NATALEE.” ARUBAN Police commissioner VAN DER STRATEN declined to provide further details, saying only that it was "part of the investigation." As JORAN returned to the polis car, he was filmed in handcuffs pounding the engine hood of the polis car. It was reported that the Police also took JORAN to the suspicious 6’ long and 4’ deep dug out hole excavated by “Texas EquuSearch” and 2 Aruban Policemen on 7-12, possibly to see his reaction to viewing the hole. Walking suspects through the reconstruction of a scene is common practice in Aruba, according to the prosecutor's office.
_ _ _

Despite the previously arranged appointment being cancelled, on 7-16 DAVE went to the prison to try and meet wth JORAN. When DAVE got there, PAULUS and his wife were also there waiting to go see JORAN. DAVE stated, "I had two pictures with me, one of Natalee and one of my 7-year-old daughter. I told him, 'I have two daughters. I know where one of them is, but not the other and I am coming to you and your son to try and find out some answers." DAVE asked PAULUS to ask JORAN if he wanted to speak with DAVE about NATALEE “eye to eye” and tell him about NATALEE and the night of 5-29/30. "I told him, 'I'm here and I want to meet him. If he says he's innocent, he can tell me that to my face,"' DAVE stated he and PAULUS spoke for several minutes. DAVE asked PAULUS if DAVE could meet with JORAN. PAULUS told DAVE, “It’s not possible. It’s too late for that.“ At the end of the brief, initial prison meeting DAVE gave to PAULUS 3 books (a Bible, The Purpose Driven Life by Rick Warren and Living in the Moment by Mary Ann Morgan) to give to JORAN.

After about an hour, PAULUS and ANITA re-emerged from the prison and PAULUS and DAVE were filmed shaking hands and they then spoke. (In DAVE’s book, he wrote that he held VAN DER SLOOT’s handshake continuously for at least 30 minutes). JORAN, according to PAULUS, claimed he did want to meet with DAVE, but PAULUS stated to DAVE: “that will not happen until the investigation is over.” ANITA indicated that she thought JORAN should speak to DAVE.

DAVE stated that PAULUS kept referring to JORAN as the “child,” and he told DAVE he would do anything for his child. DAVE stated that ANITA told him she thinks the alcohol consumption age in ARUBA is 16.

Despite PAULUS' dodging questions, DAVE stated, he may have hit on something vital near the end of their conversation. "I told him, 'I am a forgiving person. If he is innocent, he needs to profess his innocence to me. If an accident happened on this, I can live with that. And about that time, his eyes watered and his voice quivered and he said, 'I've got to do everything I can to protect my son."'



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: finngirl on June 29, 2008, 02:47:56 AM
Some people have huge amounts of information because they have a type of photographic memory. ... Einstein said most people can be a genius if they are willing, and they have a large enough head and ears to hold all of this info. I think Finbar does.
 
Finbar is also very funny he gave me this picture of himself, he said he was the better looking one, the one without the drawl.


(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/Fun%20stuff/huh.jpg)

omigod, I remember that, ROFL

maybe it's the lighting ...
but they're both hotties, IMO

 :wink:



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Rob on June 29, 2008, 09:21:22 AM
Name: John Charles Croes
Date: 28 June 2005
Pages: 3
Writer/Initiator: Johny Erasmus / Zoraida De Cuba
Description: Chat traffic

(http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p149/Morgan2112_2006/ZoraidadeCubaoduber2.jpg)

Possible myspace - *I'm not sure this is right*
http://us.profile.myspace.cn/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=227987194




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Rob on June 29, 2008, 09:21:58 AM
More "Music"

(http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p149/Morgan2112_2006/RUDYCROESPLAYSTHEACCORDING1.jpg)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 29, 2008, 09:26:51 AM
Good Morning!

Thanks Finn…heaps of info here, will need a month of Sundays to get through it all…From the Dr. Phil log…witness statements on cars between June 28th and July 6th.…two different ones…ah…the gray Toyota! One indication of an area by the Fisherman’s huts….and most of the rest are statements by Holiday Inn Security staff and a HI guest!  Sounds more like the vicinity of the Holiday Inn than the Fisherman’s Huts!

On 7-6 CNN reported:quoted by Finngirl
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: … Developments in the Natalee Holloway investigation. Can eyewitnesses link a car owned by the van der Sloot family to the beach where Natalee disappeared? Reaction ahead from Natalee's mother and stepfather.
(CNN did not report further on NATALEE during that segment)
_ _ _


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Rob on June 29, 2008, 09:33:34 AM
More "Music"

(http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p149/Morgan2112_2006/HYROODUBER-GLORIAESTEBAN2.jpg)

http://www.gloriaestefan-italia.com/uk/englista.asp


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 29, 2008, 09:41:22 AM
Joran tells who Freddy's father is in his book...anyone have a copy?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 29, 2008, 09:41:25 AM
Does anyone remember a discussion that we all had back around March?  It involved the initials of the 5th suspect.  We thought it was SC involving Steve Cores, but there were some other letters included.  We were told that normally ALe only releases the first two initials in someone's name.  Does anyone remember that conversation and what the letters were?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 29, 2008, 09:48:13 AM
Does anyone remember a discussion that we all had back around March?  It involved the initials of the 5th suspect.  We thought it was SC involving Steve Cores, but there were some other letters included.  We were told that normally ALe only releases the first two initials in someone's name.  Does anyone remember that conversation and what the letters were?

I think that was a Caps discussion. We never really settled on anything with that one. LOL

The 5th suspect has to have a home that allows a party or get together on a Sunday night.  I don't think that would be Steve since he was supposed to be working guarding the Tattoo and he lived with gramma.  Jaime had to get up early next day and his parents were there too. Guido was in the casino until about 2 that morning.  So you are left with someone that has a house and had friends over...Paulus or Lorenzo...if Paulus was indeed gambling until 4 in the morning that leaves Lorenzo...unless there are others that we don't have details on whereabout yet.  Then again, Simian may have used the term "house" and "party" as metaphors for something else.  Just my thoughts. 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 29, 2008, 09:54:27 AM
Does anyone remember a discussion that we all had back around March?  It involved the initials of the 5th suspect.  We thought it was SC involving Steve Cores, but there were some other letters included.  We were told that normally ALe only releases the first two initials in someone's name.  Does anyone remember that conversation and what the letters were?

I think that was a Caps discussion. We never really settled on anything with that one. LOL

The 5th suspect has to have a home that allows a party or get together on a Sunday night.  I don't think that would be Steve since he was supposed to be working guarding the Tattoo and he lived with gramma.  Jaime had to get up early next day and his parents were there too. Guido was in the casino until about 2 that morning.  So you are left with someone that has a house and had friends over...Paulus or Lorenzo...if Paulus was indeed gambling until 4 in the morning that leaves Lorenzo...unless there are others that we don't have details on whereabout yet.  Then again, Simian may have used the term "house" and "party" as metaphors for something else.  Just my thoughts. 



JC has his own house and I think a J and a C were part of the letters in that discussion.  Was there also an A?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Rob on June 29, 2008, 09:54:58 AM
Mate/Deckhand

Education, Experience & Location
      
   
Resume ID:    106890
Location:    USA FL north miami beach
   
Education:    High school
Experience:    3 Years
        

View contact information
 
Resume
   
   Objective
working in mega yacth or large ship as security officer

Work Experience
Oscar Viqueira Canales


North Miami Beach, Florida 33160
canalisbodyguard@gmail.com


License CC 2006405
License G 2503924
License D 2512735


2007 Loss prevention officer for Tropical Supermarket#11 and # 4
2007 on call protective driver and bodyguard for the Mexican singer Paulina Rubio ,for the Cuban singer Albita Rodriguez, David Bisbal, the reggeton singer Miguelito, Lony and Tune, Alexander Pyres, Ana Carolina de Fonseca (ex miss Brazil).Personal bodyguard for Jorge Reynoso and the puertorican singer Noelia. June 19 to 25 2007 protective driver for the Mexican group RBD
2005,2006,2007, over 300 hours training with Mr. John Gardner, NRA Law Enforcement Instructor #136119411(Tactical Firearms Academy).
2005-2006 working for Star Guard Security .In this company I was supervisor, and Investigator.

2001-2004 working in Lagoon Tiki Bar and Marina in Sunny Isles beach, in this place I was on charge of the fuel dock, snack bar and grill, I have 4 employers under my responsibility. what happened here that he works at a snack bar?

1999 to 2001 self employers, working in different private Boat in Key West different assignment and freelance photographer, receive assignment from diferent's company's and private person's.

1998 receive 40 hours training from Dade County Medical Examiner
In Forensic Photography/Secret surveillance/Bomb Car Evidence Photography/Traffic Homicide

1997-1998 working in the south commander headquarter in miami, as cable tec intaler, in this position the job was the installations of all fiber-optic system and voice and data.

1996- 1997Security officer with GLOBLE SECURITY, in Key West international Airport .assigned to X-ray screen machine
Same time working for ELITE SECURITY KEY WEST, in different post, the Electric Power Plant and deferent’s commercial and residential locations around Key West

1994 to 1995 working for JOINT TASK FORCE 140
Guantamo Naval Base, Operation SEA SIGNAl.

Experience
Photojournalist for the J-3 M.I.S.T. (military information support team)
In Guantánamo naval base, Cuba 1994/1995.
Freelance Photographer for the Spain journalist: Jose Antonio Tamargo, agency EFE.
Frelance/assisten for the Japanese fashion Photographer KIbota Taczuma
Conference photographer for the Center of Security Policy of the
William B. Casey Institute of Washingon, DC
Publications in the Miami Herald. Photographer for diferent's companies in Florida.
Personal photographer for the Prime Minister of Aruba, Mr Nelson O. Oduber. (Whent travel in private to USA)



Education High School graduate 1983 in Havana, Cuba.
4 months CSI School Kaplan University
Languages Spanish, Italian and English
Computer skill: Microsoft office word, Adobe Photoshop
Digital Photography

More references upon request.

http://www.maritimejobs.com/ResumeShow.aspx?ResumeShow=106890


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 29, 2008, 09:55:54 AM
Jaime would need to be explored further.  I would love to know more details...have looked and we have very little to go with him.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Rob on June 29, 2008, 09:58:15 AM
<snip>

It was in this last period of government – in September 1999 – that the cabinet Eman II came forward with an audacious project that would bring new life into San Nicolas, a district to which traditionally many promises were made in election time while seldom anything came out of it. The project amounted to the construction of a super-modern racetrack at Seroe Colorado at the north coast. Businessman Carlo Mansur had invited the American Ralph Sanchez, owner of a racetrack in Florida, to design a similar racetrack for Aruba. The government supported this project with – again – a government guarantee. The project would attract world class motor races and would bring thousands of race fans as tourists to Aruba.

<snip>

http://www.historiadiaruba.aw/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=26&Itemid=40&lang=en


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 29, 2008, 10:07:59 AM
Jaime would need to be explored further.  I would love to know more details...have looked and we have very little to go with him.




Jaime and the Pimps were all in the process of being arrested or questioned.  They couldn't have provided an alibi so tight for him that they would have to let him go.  The alibi had to play for someone else and it had to be a powerful alibi.  John C's friends could alibi him because they weren't under suspicion.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Rob on June 29, 2008, 10:08:54 AM
<snipped>
That collaboration between bus companies, resorts and restaurants is what makes Aruba so perfect for incentive groups and conventions. Wichita is naturally very pleased about the signing of the first-ever Tax Information Exchange Agreement (TIEA) with the U.S.A. The documents were signed by the U.S. Treasury Secretary John Snow and the Prime Minister of Aruba Nelson Oduber. TIEA was designed to ensure an exchange of information regarding taxes, and it will help develop a close and cooperative relationship between Aruba and the United States as the pact also offers tax deductions to the group & meeting/incentives market doing business here. Headquartered in Florida where she also owns and operates a franchise of PRA Destination Management, Wichita reports she cross-promotes Aruba to many of her groups visiting her territory, from the Florida Keys to Orlando. Her daughter Maureen is at the helm at PRA, proudly walking in her mom's footsteps.

Incidentally, among Wichita's most notable accomplishments this year was the ISES, International Special Events Society convention. Members convened for a seminar at the Radisson Aruba Resort & Casino determined to improve their knowledge and skills. The educational program was put together by Wichita under the auspices of the Aruba Convention Bureau. Joining in for the duration of the seminar Executive Editor, Shari Lynn Rothstein, of BizBashFla, Florida's source for fresh news, ideas and resources for special events, meetings and business entertaining. Wichita extended a special invitation to the magazine to come to Aruba. Among the busy diva's future plans? She has new tricks up her sleeve. Wichita is developing special new products to entertain large groups, responding to the latest trends in the market. Stay tuned, her "Lounging In Aruba" party organized for her next client will be a first, a never before, a real guest-pleaser!

Story submitted by Rona Coster

cached page
http://tinyurl.com/3w2azr


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Rob on June 29, 2008, 10:14:45 AM
Does anyone remember a discussion that we all had back around March?  It involved the initials of the 5th suspect.  We thought it was SC involving Steve Cores, but there were some other letters included.  We were told that normally ALe only releases the first two initials in someone's name.  Does anyone remember that conversation and what the letters were?

I think that was a Caps discussion. We never really settled on anything with that one. LOL

The 5th suspect has to have a home that allows a party or get together on a Sunday night.  I don't think that would be Steve since he was supposed to be working guarding the Tattoo and he lived with gramma.  Jaime had to get up early next day and his parents were there too. Guido was in the casino until about 2 that morning.  So you are left with someone that has a house and had friends over...Paulus or Lorenzo...if Paulus was indeed gambling until 4 in the morning that leaves Lorenzo...unless there are others that we don't have details on whereabout yet.  Then again, Simian may have used the term "house" and "party" as metaphors for something else.  Just my thoughts. 

If it's Paulus (and I suspect it is) then the eye of God sees him at the table and establishes an alibi - however that same alibi is somewhat compromised when it is revealed that he is sitting next to the missing person and engaging her in conversation.

interesting that the one piece of video tape is somewhat obscured. As to mean - that piece of tape only establishes one point and not an overall alibi. What would the purpose be to only release a piece that throws more scrutiny in a person that has nothing to do with it? If he is there all nite (say until 4 am) then he is also in the vicinity of the area his son has placed himself and the missing person, Natalee.

catch 22


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Blonde on June 29, 2008, 10:17:45 AM
Does anyone remember a discussion that we all had back around March?  It involved the initials of the 5th suspect.  We thought it was SC involving Steve Cores, but there were some other letters included.  We were told that normally ALe only releases the first two initials in someone's name.  Does anyone remember that conversation and what the letters were?

This one
Filomena Garrido Croes (Mitchi as callname) uses her born last name on the son.

Son Name was Steve Garrido Croes Junior.

There is also Edward Croes who is the brother of Steve.

There is Evelin Croes who is married to a Wever.

Do you have a birthdate on S. G. C. J. in your research? The reason I was inclined to believe that Steve was related to Hendrik was because of the name given in MSM Seferino Gregory Croes. Did you come across that name in your research?
The mother and father's birthdates in your research indicate to me that they could also possibly be the grandparents of S. G. C. J. Young parents, young grandparents but possible.... To my knowledge the Steve Croes that we know as a suspect has never been identified as a "jr". Is it common to name someone Jr. when the father and the son's names are different?

Is there another Steve Garrido Croes that we don't know about? Maybe in jail?

I believe an extreme effort is being made to hide the name....WHY?

How did the media come up with Seferino Gregory Croes?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 29, 2008, 10:19:51 AM
Does anyone remember a discussion that we all had back around March?  It involved the initials of the 5th suspect.  We thought it was SC involving Steve Cores, but there were some other letters included.  We were told that normally ALe only releases the first two initials in someone's name.  Does anyone remember that conversation and what the letters were?

I think that was a Caps discussion. We never really settled on anything with that one. LOL

The 5th suspect has to have a home that allows a party or get together on a Sunday night.  I don't think that would be Steve since he was supposed to be working guarding the Tattoo and he lived with gramma.  Jaime had to get up early next day and his parents were there too. Guido was in the casino until about 2 that morning.  So you are left with someone that has a house and had friends over...Paulus or Lorenzo...if Paulus was indeed gambling until 4 in the morning that leaves Lorenzo...unless there are others that we don't have details on whereabout yet.  Then again, Simian may have used the term "house" and "party" as metaphors for something else.  Just my thoughts. 

If it's Paulus (and I suspect it is) then the eye of God sees him at the table and establishes an alibi - however that same alibi is somewhat compromised when it is revealed that he is sitting next to the missing person and engaging her in conversation.

interesting that the one piece of video tape is somewhat obscured. As to mean - that piece of tape only establishes one point and not an overall alibi. What would the purpose be to only release a piece that throws more scrutiny in a person that has nothing to do with it? If he is there all nite (say until 4 am) then he is also in the vicinity of the area his son has placed himself and the missing person, Natalee.

catch 22



I'm looking at Chemaly as Joran's boyfriend and the one who worked with Daury Davin.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 29, 2008, 10:29:31 AM
Does anyone remember a discussion that we all had back around March?  It involved the initials of the 5th suspect.  We thought it was SC involving Steve Cores, but there were some other letters included.  We were told that normally ALe only releases the first two initials in someone's name.  Does anyone remember that conversation and what the letters were?

This one
Filomena Garrido Croes (Mitchi as callname) uses her born last name on the son.

Son Name was Steve Garrido Croes Junior.

There is also Edward Croes who is the brother of Steve.

There is Evelin Croes who is married to a Wever.

Do you have a birthdate on S. G. C. J. in your research? The reason I was inclined to believe that Steve was related to Hendrik was because of the name given in MSM Seferino Gregory Croes. Did you come across that name in your research?
The mother and father's birthdates in your research indicate to me that they could also possibly be the grandparents of S. G. C. J. Young parents, young grandparents but possible.... To my knowledge the Steve Croes that we know as a suspect has never been identified as a "jr". Is it common to name someone Jr. when the father and the son's names are different?

Is there another Steve Garrido Croes that we don't know about? Maybe in jail?

I believe an extreme effort is being made to hide the name....WHY?

How did the media come up with Seferino Gregory Croes?




Could it have been JAC, Jr.  Where is CAPS when we need him?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 29, 2008, 10:37:28 AM
Does anyone remember a discussion that we all had back around March?  It involved the initials of the 5th suspect.  We thought it was SC involving Steve Cores, but there were some other letters included.  We were told that normally ALe only releases the first two initials in someone's name.  Does anyone remember that conversation and what the letters were?

I think that was a Caps discussion. We never really settled on anything with that one. LOL

The 5th suspect has to have a home that allows a party or get together on a Sunday night.  I don't think that would be Steve since he was supposed to be working guarding the Tattoo and he lived with gramma.  Jaime had to get up early next day and his parents were there too. Guido was in the casino until about 2 that morning.  So you are left with someone that has a house and had friends over...Paulus or Lorenzo...if Paulus was indeed gambling until 4 in the morning that leaves Lorenzo...unless there are others that we don't have details on whereabout yet.  Then again, Simian may have used the term "house" and "party" as metaphors for something else.  Just my thoughts. 

If it's Paulus (and I suspect it is) then the eye of God sees him at the table and establishes an alibi - however that same alibi is somewhat compromised when it is revealed that he is sitting next to the missing person and engaging her in conversation.

interesting that the one piece of video tape is somewhat obscured. As to mean - that piece of tape only establishes one point and not an overall alibi. What would the purpose be to only release a piece that throws more scrutiny in a person that has nothing to do with it? If he is there all nite (say until 4 am) then he is also in the vicinity of the area his son has placed himself and the missing person, Natalee.

catch 22



I'm looking at Chemaly as Joran's boyfriend and the one who worked with Daury Davin.



That didn't come out the way I wanted it to.  It should have said, worked on disposing of the body with Duary Daven.

Rob - remember the party-goers - Chemaly, Renfro, Arendsz, Briezen.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Blonde on June 29, 2008, 11:35:08 AM
SS do a search on Caps posts here at SM


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on June 29, 2008, 12:06:08 PM
LaLa's sharpen your pencils because this one is out of the box.

The 5th suspect has an alibi so string. It has everybody baffled.  The 5th was a boyfriend from earlier in the week.  The party-goers said the 5th one was with them.  He was the host.  How could he have left.  A jealous boyfriend was at home with some friends.  He couldn’t have done it.  Sometimes friends will cover for each other.  He had to be let go.  I did not say an ex.  Girl goes out with cool and crazy guy in casino.  After a couple of days girl meets another boy in casino.  This makes first guy really mad.  So he confronts second boy.  However, the first guy has an airtight alibi.   Some friends say that they were at  home with him. Until morning.  He has an alibi. So tight. So tight.  The first guy has the motive.  The seond guy is scared sh*tless in a cell.  It was a simple party at his house.  He was “the whole time”.

In light of what we now know about Joran’s sexual activities and considering that we identified JR and JC as party-goers several months ago, this story might not be about jealousy over a girl.  What if it is jealousy between two guys?   The first guy almost has to be older and has his own house.  We originally thought LVR, but LVR wouldn’t be having a romance with his half brother.  What young kid could have a party on a school night where his friends stayed until morning?  What if Natalee just hung out with a guy she met in the casino for some fun and then a few days later met up with Joran.  Guy number one is attracted to Joran and gets mad because Joran was with Natalee when he arrived at the Matty Apts. - so something bad happened to Natalee.  He was jealous of Natalee.  Who besides Guido might have had a romance with Joran? Guido didn’t have his own house – he was still in school.  Joran’s friends didn’t live in Oranjestadt.   Who had a house where friends could party and stay all night?  One of JC’s friends is Davin.  JC had his own house and his gay friends would cover for him and say they stayed all night.  JR could even say that she was at his party because they’re friends and he’s her boss.  Who’s going to doubt the madame when she offers a tight alibi for him?  This guy didn’t stay in jail at all because his alibi was so tight.  They had to let him go.  Who said the alibi played for the Sloots?  Was JC the 5th?  Did JR set up the car chase that morning as a diversion because her sources told her that ALE was coming to arrest JC and she had to protect him from the media?  It wasn’t a BonDia reporter that looked like an idiot in the end.  Davin is JC's friend who helped his buddy dispose of Natalee.  JR owns the tourist boat with the banana boat behind it.  Davin could easily have left for Holland the next morning and he has recently moved to New Zealand.  Didn’t Patrick say that he had left Holland?  When the suspect was arrested on the 11th, he was described as being in his 20s - not a 17 year old kid.  JC is now 34.  The 5th was a boyfriend from earlier in the week, but not a boyfriend of Natalee - a boyfriend of Joran.  Natalee met a guy and then a boy.  The first one was not a boy like Joran.




Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:26 pm
The alibi story is the almost the latest.
The latest is that there’s a gap in the time-line for the boys.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:09 pm
A scorned lover needs a motive? Drives some people to some crazy deeds.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:13 pm
A jealous boyfriend was at home with some friends. He couldn’t have done it. Sometimes friends will cover for each other.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:16 pm
He (jealous boyfriend) had to be let go

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:29 pm
I did not say an ex. Do you people read? I not into repeating myself.

[repeating himself] Girl comes to Aruba. Meets cool and crazy guy in C@$ino. Goes out with him. He declares that to be the case. Can’t deny it. It’s on tape.  Everybody in the C@$ino knows the group of teens, they have been drinking in there for free the whole week. After a couple of days girl meets another boy in the same C@$ino. Goes out with him.
Simian: This makes first guy really mad. So mad he confronts second boy.
First guy never denies the affair. He knows they know he was with her. However, he has an airtight alibi. Some friends say they were at home with him. Until the morning.
How can this ever be solved?

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:55 pm
He has an alibi. So tight. So tight.

Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 2:30 pm
Paulus (He) has been picked up.

Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 2:23 pm
The older Van Der Sloot (he) has been taken in again by Aruban Police.




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on June 29, 2008, 12:11:34 PM
He knows they know he was with her.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 29, 2008, 01:16:56 PM
For all who are interested in the Croes initials, we seem to have overlooked a couple of guys. An interesting thing…It appears that a lot in Aruba are named after an uncle, that is how they become junior…same name as the uncle, not the father. Not to say it is always the case and have no idea what the Junior here really stands for!

JMO, but a son of Betico being involved, would explain a lot. Even though he was AVP, I doubt anyone in Aruba would be in a hurry to tarnish the name of Betico Croes. BTW, he and Jossy were around the same age (Just thinking about a post that Silverfox made a little while back!)


Betico Croes

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Gilberto François "Betico" Croes (b. 1938 d. 1986) was an Aruban political activist who was a proponent of Aruba's separation from the rest of the Netherlands Antilles. This eventually occurred, but Croes lapsed into a coma after an accident on 31 December 1985 (the night of status aparte) and was never conscious to see his accomplishment. He's called the father of the Aruban nation.

The accident he suffered was questioned by many for years since a car was seen leaving the area after the accident. This conspiracy theory was never proven.

He was the leader of the political party M.E.P. (Movimiento Electoral di Pueblo) and was the person responsible for the Seal, Flag and Hymn of the island of Aruba. The hymn was co-written by renowned Padu Del Caribe (Padu Lampe), and Rufo Wever who also composed the anthem.
In the 1980s he also said that Aruba should target the tourism in order the diversify the economy since it depended mainly on the refinery.
He also was responsible for major projects for the people of Aruba like F.C.C.A., Arubus, Sasaki Plan (he envisioned the area destined for hotels) and many many more.

Aruba's official Holiday to remember him has been marked on January 25, his birth date.

Caya G. F. Betico Croes is named for him and is the main shopping street in Oranjestad, Aruba.

Has 2 sons, Glenbert and Junior Croes and 2 daughters Lalo Saladin-Croes and Guisette Croes.

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betico_Croes"



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: finngirl on June 29, 2008, 01:18:32 PM
Does anyone remember a discussion that we all had back around March?  It involved the initials of the 5th suspect.  We thought it was SC involving Steve Croes, but there were some other letters included.  We were told that normally ALE only releases the first two initials in someone's name.  Does anyone remember that conversation and what the letters were?

IIRC the initials SGJC were used
on the day Steve was detained

IIRC only one media source used SGJC ...
the others used SGC

IIRC there's a FP article that day,
will look for that

don't recall hearing first 2 initials only as the norm ...
Geoffrey was referred to as GvC

wasn't Lorenzo referred to as LvR ... ?
(after his pot farm bust)



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 29, 2008, 01:28:41 PM
Does anyone remember a discussion that we all had back around March?  It involved the initials of the 5th suspect.  We thought it was SC involving Steve Croes, but there were some other letters included.  We were told that normally ALE only releases the first two initials in someone's name.  Does anyone remember that conversation and what the letters were?

IIRC the initials SGJC were used
on the day Steve was detained

IIRC only one media source used SGJC ...
the others used SGC

IIRC there's a FP article that day,
will look for that

don't recall hearing first 2 initials only as the norm ...
Geoffrey was referred to as GvC

wasn't Lorenzo referred to as LvR ... ?
(after his pot farm bust)




Hi Finn...the first two initials thingy is in your forgot/remember thread... ::MonkeyHaHa::

Courtesy of one of the misinformants....bondia or the like, said it didn't happen in this case as the case was too high profile! It was in reference to the F.A.

Strange that when I see anything on the Luis Mansur case, he is listed as L.E.M.  ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Rob on June 29, 2008, 01:32:38 PM
Poochy, Colombo, SF and all,

Something just hit me. I remember I was watching a show of a channel like Discovery, and it was about gambling and slot machines. How the machines could be beaten and compromised. There was experts from Bally's and people who had actually cheated the machines.

In the program they revealed a very interesting fact. All slot machines play the same three notes. It might have been like A-C-G. I'm not totally sure what the notes were, I forget. Anyway, these notes in a specific combination, are apparently pleasing to the human ear.

wonder if this could be the poison notes and follow the music?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 29, 2008, 01:33:31 PM
Rob...does Armin play golf? Have an IQ of 149? TIA

I have a whole lot on Wichita, if you are interested....I think I may even be able to find it!...LOL


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: finngirl on June 29, 2008, 01:39:04 PM

ah, BS from bondia/Julia Renfro ...

"thanks for the memories"

I better check that thread
and see what else I forgot, LOL



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 29, 2008, 01:45:12 PM

ah, BS from bondia/Julia Renfro ...

"thanks for the memories"

I better check that thread
and see what else I forgot, LOL



 ::MonkeyHaHa::

I go there often...Thanks!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: finngirl on June 29, 2008, 01:45:40 PM

a kicker re initials

USA Today 6/18/2005
Steve Gregory Croes, 26, whom authorities earlier identified only by the initials S.G.C., said he was contacted by police Thursday night and voluntarily gave a statement, said his employer, Marcus Wiggins.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2005-06-17-aruba-arrest_x.htm

FOX News Friday, June 17, 2005
According to sources, the new man detained is a 26-year-old friend of Joran van der Sloot , the Dutch teenager who is said to have been with Holloway the night she disappeared.

The Aruban attorney general's office initially identified him only by the initials "S.G.C.," but Holloway's mother told an interviewer that his name was "Steve." FOX News later confirmed that the man's name was Steve Gregory Croes.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,159862,00.html

(CBS/AP) June 18, 2005
Aruban authorities broadened their investigation into the case of a missing U.S. teen Saturday after arresting a party boat disc jockey.

The Aruban attorney general's office released a statement announcing the arrest, but identified Croes only by his initials, "S.G.C."
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/06/17/world/main702601.shtml
_ _ _

OK, the source for most media outlets is AP/Associated Press ...
if AP says SGC then most media outlets will use what AP provided

so, this from the FP is interesting:
UPDATE: Initials S.C. born 21 -07-1978 –> Has only one hit in national health system: Steve Gregg C. J. Croes
http://scaredmonkeys.com/2005/06/17/

provided by arubagirl via her employee database ...
hmmmm

I knew I'd seen it on the FP but had forgotten the "source"



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Rob on June 29, 2008, 01:53:37 PM
Rob...does Armin play golf? Have an IQ of 149? TIA

I have a whole lot on Wichita, if you are interested....I think I may even be able to find it!...LOL

I don't know if he plays. I play. Have you ever met a banker that doesn't?  ::MonkeyHaHa::

I would say his IQ is easily 149 or higher.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 29, 2008, 02:10:59 PM
Rob...does Armin play golf? Have an IQ of 149? TIA

I have a whole lot on Wichita, if you are interested....I think I may even be able to find it!...LOL

I don't know if he plays. I play. Have you ever met a banker that doesn't?  ::MonkeyHaHa::

I would say his IQ is easily 149 or higher.

Thanks Rob for the info! I have been meaning to ask you these questions forever!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 29, 2008, 02:41:58 PM
We are back to square one again...was Steve the 4th or 5th person arrested?  It's debatable and we have argued this point through 4 Shango threads.  The person that is the 5th suspect has to meet certain facts as laid out by Simian. 

Had a party at his house.
Was a boyfriend from earlier in the week. (Who's BF?)
Those at his party was his alibi.
The alibi did not play out for the Sloots
Left said party to go help Joran.

Paulus fits.  Lorenzo fits. Steve fits. Freddy fits....everyone fits one or more of these things.  That is the problem.  I love it when we start over...just confuses the heck out of me. LOL


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on June 29, 2008, 03:30:18 PM
We are back to square one again...was Steve the 4th or 5th person arrested?  It's debatable and we have argued this point through 4 Shango threads.  The person that is the 5th suspect has to meet certain facts as laid out by Simian. 

Had a party at his house.
Was a boyfriend from earlier in the week. (Who's BF?)
Those at his party was his alibi.
The alibi did not play out for the Sloots
Left said party to go help Joran.

Paulus fits.  Lorenzo fits. Steve fits. Freddy fits....everyone fits one or more of these things.  That is the problem.  I love it when we start over...just confuses the heck out of me. LOL


or there was not a party at his house and some friends covered and said there was
the partygoers would then be able to be pinched-for perjury



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on June 29, 2008, 03:38:34 PM
Poochy, Colombo, SF and all,

Something just hit me. I remember I was watching a show of a channel like Discovery, and it was about gambling and slot machines. How the machines could be beaten and compromised. There was experts from Bally's and people who had actually cheated the machines.

In the program they revealed a very interesting fact. All slot machines play the same three notes. It might have been like A-C-G. I'm not totally sure what the notes were, I forget. Anyway, these notes in a specific combination, are apparently pleasing to the human ear.

wonder if this could be the poison notes and follow the music?

interesting.....

had thought that perhaps the reference was in regards to the credit limits, follow the money (note=loan)

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:30 pm
Who knows what song the elder will sing
 
[which song?]
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:31 pm
The shivas knew the girl
the arawaks new the girl
and the babylonians still know the girl

[know=be owed?]
Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:36 pm
All that the gamblers knew was written down. They knew the girl. She spent her nights at their tables.

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:53 pm
The Simain thinks that Babalú is clueless about who the Babylonians are. The Simian thinks that is really funny.
The Simian will make an exception and answer: The gamblers knew the girl.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:33 pm
Why did the girl owe money?

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:37 pm
DirtyHand is not a child of Babylon
He holds the real key

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:49 pm
 The fallen judge and the singing card (DirtyHand) are of the same hand, but it is dangerous for the Arawaks to play it, because everyone would hear, including the cowboys

Babalú Says: June 27th, 2005 at 12:30 am
Concerned: No, I guess he is head of some local official corps. He is the guy that knows everything and that has been in the house of Babylonians NOT seeking pleasure for himself, so Shango says. So maybe he went to search for Natalee and he is the chief of Polis.




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on June 29, 2008, 04:40:33 PM
Poochy, Colombo, SF and all,

Something just hit me. I remember I was watching a show of a channel like Discovery, and it was about gambling and slot machines. How the machines could be beaten and compromised. There was experts from Bally's and people who had actually cheated the machines.

In the program they revealed a very interesting fact. All slot machines play the same three notes. It might have been like A-C-G. I'm not totally sure what the notes were, I forget. Anyway, these notes in a specific combination, are apparently pleasing to the human ear.

wonder if this could be the poison notes and follow the music?

Rob, interesting... I do believe all this is tied to Joran's gambling habit, poison notes and maybe a locked doorway beyond the slot machine area where parties take place inside the casinos.

Check out GvCromvoirt.

Patrick said it's someone who worked on a "tourist boat". The Tattoo boat went immediately up for sale which could imply SCroes the DJ, but "the music man's song was not on the bill" so I'm ruling him out. Working on a toursit boat could also be someone pimping themselves out for $. GvCromvoirt's daddy could be the elder who provided security for the founders of babylon (casinos) and could also be the 'elder' that walks in all places, not seeking pleasure for himself. GvCromvoirt also fled Aruba. Heard on blogs he had a white pickup truck and immediately sold it. What was his alibi the night she went missing? Was GVCromvoirt at C&C that night? GvCromvoirt and MDompig both worked for the security firm, then left. GVCromvoirt was not working for it when Natalee went missing. We all heard he was a 'beach bum' and had contact with Natalee.

Patrick said the guy is from Rotterdam, and they need the body to connect it to 'the guy'. Is the DNA from the VCB shirt?

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/20/ng.01.html
MORET: Well -- well, before we get there, you heard Beth Twitty talk about a shirt. And what she was talking about is in June of 2005, there was a shirt with a logo, VCB logo, on it, and that was found on the south side of the island with blood on it. It was originally not believed to be involved in this particular case. However, we were told by Mr. Tacopina, the attorney representing Joran Van Der Sloot, that Van Cromvoirt was detained because recovered his T-shirt with forensic evidence pertinent to this case on the south side of the island. It`s not known whether it`s the same T-shirt, but VCB is the security company that Geoffrey Van Cromvoirt works for now. And according to the statement released by his family, he did not have access to those T-shirts at the time of Natalee`s disappearance, did not own those T-shirts at the time of Natalee`s disappearance.
****************
Per Patrick,

Q: In the Range Rover Joran mentions a name: Daury Ravens. This guy is supposed to have dumped the body of Natalee. Does Daury Ravens exist?
P: No. The one I suspect lives in Rotterdam.
Q: Who is this person?
P: I have mentioned two names with the ALE. And they were VERY impressed by it.
Q: How can it that this guy from Rotterdam  hasn't been arrested yet?
P: Because they're not talking. The only thing the police need is DNA. That's what they want. They need the body, man. The body. Then they can connect it with that guy.Q: Joran told more. The guy who made Natalee dissapear worked on a touristboat with a banana behind it.
P: He wanted those banana's in his butt, that guy...that's something else!...Oh, I'm not allowed to say that.
Q: Who told you that?
P: Adolph Richardson told me that. He won't be happy about this, but I'm being honest. I like Richardson but this is taking too long.
Q: Joran as a male prostitute. Is that relevant for this case?
P: I think so. Some people did things for Joran, one could think: why would they do that?


Hmmmm...why WOULD they do things for Joran? Sporter has a big mouth?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on June 29, 2008, 05:23:34 PM

The members of the Visibility Team are recruited from the ranks of the Police AND from Rodana Security  Aha! Here lies our poison siren!

5/16/06 8:28 AM the grey whisper said "...Are the sentries really asleep at the watchtower?"

Sentries=hired security who saw on cameras what happened - but said they fell asleep in the week hours of the morning Nat went missing. So where ever the security cameras were situated could imply they filmed the crime scene. But the tape was wiped clean, or evidence was tampered, so to cover that up the 'sentries' said they fell asleep and forgot to record, film, etc.

http://tinyurl.com/5jdtqw

VCB Security has a direct public/private relationship with the Visibility Police on Aruba. What are some of the other projects for VCB Security? Mambo Jambo Nightclub Aruba and the Marriott Resort & Casino Aruba. The very resort that Joran Van der Sloot claims he and Natalee were dropped off at by Deepak Kalpoe?

The idea came about three years ago and the private sector, the hotels, banded together to fund raise for a better Police and security system. As a result of public resources and private funding coming together, Aruba today has a professionally trained and fully equipped Visibility Team patrolling the high rise area of Palm Beach, the low rise area of Eagle Beach, the downtown Mecca of shopping, Oranjestad and now also San Nicolas. It was an instant success from the get go as it brought about an exodus of troublemakers from Aruba’s premium spots.


"They have a security firm that has a “consulting” relationship with the “Visibility Team.”

The Visibility Team is as Aruba.com states:

The members of the Visibility Team are recruited from the ranks of the Police and from Rodana Security, they are all well trained and nicely equipped for the job.”


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on June 29, 2008, 05:35:28 PM
I just read something very interesting on http://www.vcbsecurity.com

Live casino images can be viewed by livestreaming via xDSL AND cellphone/PDA via internet access. So the watchtower centries can film poker hands and send directly to a PDA within the casino who can give signals?

Didn't a tourist get upset with Joran, saying he was cheating or something?
 
"...This is a complete view of all the camera systems we can offer you or your company. These can both be wired or wireless with all the options you can imagine.

You or your company can view the live images at an observation center in both your or our company this is all to your liking. Observation can be done by a observation center in your company it self or you as company executive can view live images and recorded images in the comfort of your own house. This is possible by livestreaming via xDSL and is possible everywhere where there is a xDSL connection. Also there is mobile observation possible by cellphone or by PDA. (this is possible where you have internet acces with your cellphone or PDA).


Then again, based on this, Sander's cell phone went missing right? Was security hooked up in an off hours casino that night and broadcast to a few of the missing cel phones?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 29, 2008, 07:08:38 PM
Thanks for reminding me Colombo. I had forgotten that possibility.

One more thought...now everyone sit down...what if Simian was just trying to distract us from the real truth...whatever that is and neither Simian or Shango are even players in this case?  What if Shango was one of the other posters that came to SM as a paid shill to simply send us on a wild goose chase and nothing Simian, Shango, Merian, or any of the others mean anything at all?  That means I have wasted all my time working on this damn riddle!   :roll:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 29, 2008, 08:02:24 PM
The guy who made Natalee dissapear worked on a touristboat with a banana behind it.

Hi Poochy -

Julia Renfron is the editor of BonDia which is owned by John A. Chemaly, Jr.  We were told that these two were involved in the event.  Julia also owns a watersports company that has larger boats that pull banana boats.  I posted a picture a few days ago.  Tattoo doesn't pull a banana boat.  I have been able to link a person named Davin to Chemaly.  Davin left Holland around Christmas time or before.  He is in New Zealand.  This would also fit that Patrick wasn't able to meet with Davin because he had left the country.  Joar said that this person went back and forth to Aruba on business.  This would eliminate the 17 year old friends.  Chemaly is gay and could be a link to Joran.

We were also told that two of Rudy's sons were involved.  I don't know if they were legitimate or illegitimate sons because apparantly he has both.  We were also looking at sons of Oduber and Dompig.  Michael Dompig reportedly worked for the black team and Julia Renfro's watersports company.  I posted pictures of Michael with the watersports company boats several months ago.  They are back in the threads somewhere.

I have been working on an assumption that the car chase and the decapitated body were diversions set up by Renfro to coverup things that were occuring simultaneously.  On July 11th, someone unidentified and in his 20s was arrested at his home in Oranjestadt.  On July 11th Tiel from Diario was involved in the car chase.  I am looking at this as Tiel being setup to keep the media away from the arrest.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 29, 2008, 09:18:00 PM
Rob - I am responding to your post on the NH thread.  Do we know for sure that Michael Dompig is gay?  If so, that would open another can of worms.  He could be the 5th.  He could have met Natalee earlier in the week and then had the confrontation with Joran at the Matty Apts.  He's older than the Pimps and might easily have had his own apt. or house where he could have used the "party at home" alibi.  Michael did work for the Black Team and he did work for the watersports company, thus having access to the banana boat.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 29, 2008, 09:24:14 PM
JUNE 10TH. AND 11TH.

On 7-12 PAUL REYNOLDS told MSNBC, “I know that my sister had a meeting with the FBI June 10, Friday. And from that meeting, she became convinced that Natalee was no longer alive. She called her mother and told her that. And our family was—was—began the grieving process. You know, we were told the report would come out the next day. Later that night, we saw the reports that confessions had been made, that something bad had happened. Shortly thereafter, it was retracted. The next morning, there was a report that said Natalee was confirmed dead. And these reports came from the deputy commissioner. They came from the spokesperson from the Ministry of Justice. And then, all of a sudden, these statements and these confessions just disappeared.” “I am not aware of any follow-up information. You know, this seemed to disappear from sight, these confessions did. At the time, we thought that because the investigation is kept secret, we thought it was ongoing, and maybe they just didn't want to release it officially at that time. But, as we see that the appeals, the hearings are showing there's no evidence, but yet we have these confessions, it doesn't make any sense. It's as if they are being hidden or taken away.”

And possibly the Aruba-bay videos…….


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on June 29, 2008, 09:34:58 PM
The guy who made Natalee dissapear worked on a touristboat with a banana behind it.

Hi Poochy -

Julia Renfron is the editor of BonDia which is owned by John A. Chemaly, Jr.  We were told that these two were involved in the event.  Julia also owns a watersports company that has larger boats that pull banana boats.  I posted a picture a few days ago.  Tattoo doesn't pull a banana boat.  I have been able to link a person named Davin to Chemaly.  Davin left Holland around Christmas time or before.  He is in New Zealand.  This would also fit that Patrick wasn't able to meet with Davin because he had left the country.  Joar said that this person went back and forth to Aruba on business.  This would eliminate the 17 year old friends.  Chemaly is gay and could be a link to Joran.

We were also told that two of Rudy's sons were involved.  I don't know if they were legitimate or illegitimate sons because apparantly he has both.  We were also looking at sons of Oduber and Dompig.  Michael Dompig reportedly worked for the black team and Julia Renfro's watersports company.  I posted pictures of Michael with the watersports company boats several months ago.  They are back in the threads somewhere.

I have been working on an assumption that the car chase and the decapitated body were diversions set up by Renfro to coverup things that were occuring simultaneously.  On July 11th, someone unidentified and in his 20s was arrested at his home in Oranjestadt.  On July 11th Tiel from Diario was involved in the car chase.  I am looking at this as Tiel being setup to keep the media away from the arrest.



Thanks for the recap SS.  This is the first I'm hearing about two of Rudy's sons being involved. I'll google around for you. I did hear MDompig worked for the 'black team' when GvCromvoirt worked there also, and both were fired.

Interesting assumption you have about the car chase. Is this car chase tied with the helicoptor landing on a front lawn, and Natalee was whisked away? During my research back then I discovered that 'they' use helicoptors to dump bodies into the ocean. (Didn't the whiskered rat Oduber take out a helicoptor and get reprimanded for it?)

Back to the decapitated body and all the tete's rolling and washing up on shore, while codetalkers could have been planting a diversion, what do you get out of Joran's statement (see below)? I get that her head (IT) is by the FHuts, and the rest (her body) he has no clue. I always thought this was the news that Beth received in that pic of her slunk down in the arms of those two ALE guys with that anguished look on her face. I also got that the head was the package that was 'screaming to be heard', the rumor floating around the island.  The decision was made that it was safer to let Natalee appear missing for eternity than to produce one part of her. After all, who would visit Aruba any more? Inquests into DirtyHand would no doubt be warranted if that let out. Based on what they did to that Choose-A-Name bouncer, someone down there has no soul. But the package is ever so late, and the package it was decided will never arrive.

Joran (June 13th 2005 Proces verbaal findings by Jan vdStraten) "...To my question where the girl was buried then, he answered:
      I think that IT was buried then next to the wall of the Fisherman's Hut., for the rest I would not know either.

 During the conversation Joran showed differing emotions. Sometimes he cried, sometimes he was direct in his answers"



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 29, 2008, 10:39:12 PM
This is information that we received a few months ago.

there was a prty but the party was a Casino Party, Big Shots, Big Weel,

The part goe-ers are not the kids but BUT the BIG GUNS...at the palace

How can you pinch big guns if it they are shielded from RC.

there is a way...but after we solve this.

No the 5th is Rudy croes son

THe person that provided the escord when the 2 shivas left are the black team, Rudy croes children are working for the black team and they where there, they new the girl,

The Young Babylonians are the sons of Rudy Croes.

100% shure... need name. or will skip check with other source.

Check this for all of us

Where are the Children of Rudy Croes.

Find the children...BTW Rudy Croes like making movies

Find the Children

Back to decoding

Remember also that Dompig is from Surinam.  He is related to the Kalpoes.  In this quote, the palace is a location known as Matty Apts.  It is across the street from the Monserat Pond that was recently drained and searched.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 30, 2008, 06:48:52 AM
SS and Poochy...I think you are confusing the Black Team with the Visability Team. According to Simian the Black Team is highly trained and armed to the hilt. IIRC there is a pic in the Imprtant Document thread. I recall asking Caps if these were one and the same and he said 'No'!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 30, 2008, 06:59:49 AM
Thanks for reminding me Colombo. I had forgotten that possibility.

One more thought...now everyone sit down...what if Simian was just trying to distract us from the real truth...whatever that is and neither Simian or Shango are even players in this case?  What if Shango was one of the other posters that came to SM as a paid shill to simply send us on a wild goose chase and nothing Simian, Shango, Merian, or any of the others mean anything at all?  That means I have wasted all my time working on this damn riddle!   :roll:




Been doing some homework on ‘Was Simian trying to distract us from the real truth?’ –  he  pointed at the Fifth suspect, and reinforced the Steve Croes’ story of creating an alibi. ‘The music man’s song was not on the bill.’ He then came back as Mirian and pointed at Freddy in the famous pic.

Is it a coincidence that he made his first posts, on 6/17, under this FP heading
…“BREAKING NEWS: 4th Person Arrested in Natalee Holloway case (CORRECTION NO 5th PERSON)”?

He returns on Wednesday,6/22 around 11AM, beginning with the insurance fraud and ending at 6PM with ‘a simple party at his house’. He goes from 3 posts on 6/17 about Chandra Levy, to a barrage of them on 6/22, defending Aruba, criticizing the US and finally introducing the 5th. Suspect.

Thursday,6/23, he begins posting around 10.30, ‘He is too afraid to confess’ and quits shortly after 3PM.with ‘Steve Croes is singing’.

Friday, 6/24, ‘Anybody want a blessing from Saint Alibi’, again around 10.30 and ends around 6.15 with a post to Ally in Pap, about an imposter.

Saturday, 6/25, At 6.47PM, ‘There are 3 vehicles’. He continues unti around 10.30 ending with impersonators, doppelgangers and no more clues.

Sunday,6/26, At 2.58PM, ‘The music man’s song was not on the bill’. He continues through 11.37PM and ‘how can the gamblers be wrong about the girl?’

Monday, 6/27, At 9.13AM, back to work…starting slow and then finishing up at 12.20 with three consecutive posts in Pap.

Tuesday, 6/28. 1.42 AM., ‘The Simian has a handicap of 12.’ Continues until 3.10AM, spatting with Shango. Returns at 5PM and again posts about an imposter, leaves and returns at 8.15PM, with ‘They will all take a tumble soon.’ Another post about the silence in the brook and them being liars too.

Wednesday, 6/29. 11.45AM, posts about the boys from the neighourhood. Three posts about this and tickets being changed, in around 15 minutes, and leaves. He returns at 2.18Pm, with ‘They have too much on the boy.’ Reposts the same post a minute later and ends shortly after with ‘on her way to Panama with the help of the Carib.’

Thursday, 6/30, 10.18AM, a post about the ex-boyfriend. Ends with ‘The music man would lose to a lettuce at a spelling bee….’at 4.24PM. This is the end of Simian. Returns as Mono at 6.20 and makes three posts in Pap.

Friday, 7/1. 10.30AM. two posts as Baboon…

It appears that Simian may have been a paid shill…he spent a lot of his workday posting on the FP of SM! Hmmm…reinforces my thoughts on ‘Freddy’!

Now where would that leave us with Shango?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Pita on June 30, 2008, 08:40:18 AM

The members of the Visibility Team are recruited from the ranks of the Police AND from Rodana Security  Aha! Here lies our poison siren!

5/16/06 8:28 AM the grey whisper said "...Are the sentries really asleep at the watchtower?"

Sentries=hired security who saw on cameras what happened - but said they fell asleep in the week hours of the morning Nat went missing. So where ever the security cameras were situated could imply they filmed the crime scene. But the tape was wiped clean, or evidence was tampered, so to cover that up the 'sentries' said they fell asleep and forgot to record, film, etc.

http://tinyurl.com/5jdtqw

VCB Security has a direct public/private relationship with the Visibility Police on Aruba. What are some of the other projects for VCB Security? Mambo Jambo Nightclub Aruba and the Marriott Resort & Casino Aruba. The very resort that Joran Van der Sloot claims he and Natalee were dropped off at by Deepak Kalpoe?

The idea came about three years ago and the private sector, the hotels, banded together to fund raise for a better Police and security system. As a result of public resources and private funding coming together, Aruba today has a professionally trained and fully equipped Visibility Team patrolling the high rise area of Palm Beach, the low rise area of Eagle Beach, the downtown Mecca of shopping, Oranjestad and now also San Nicolas. It was an instant success from the get go as it brought about an exodus of troublemakers from Aruba’s premium spots.


"They have a security firm that has a “consulting” relationship with the “Visibility Team.”

The Visibility Team is as Aruba.com states:

The members of the Visibility Team are recruited from the ranks of the Police and from Rodana Security, they are all well trained and nicely equipped for the job.”


RHODHANA SECURITY CONSULTANCY & SERVICES 
 
Business address FRANKLINSTRAAT Z/N, ORANJESTAD WEST 
Legal form  LIMITED LIABILITY COMPANY 
Name of the company  RHODHANA N.V. 
Statutory seat  ARUBA 
Date of incorporation  22 OCTOBER 1990 
         
DIRECTORS - AUTHORIZED PERSONS AND CORPORATE BODIES - SUPERVISORY BOARD: 
 
ANTERSIJN, SIMON ROBERT JOSEPH
Residing in  POS CHIQUITO 13-G, SAVANETA, ARUBA 
Born in  COLOMBIA, BOGOTA on 1 MAY 1963 
Nationality  DUTCH 
Position  MANAGING DIRECTOR 
Effective  1 OCTOBER 1993 
Authority  FULL 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 30, 2008, 09:04:54 AM
What does "young Babylonians" mean?  That would depend on your definition of Babylonian. 

Babylonians= Dutch=young Dutch kids
Babylonians= Gamblers=kids that gamble in casinos
Babylonians= PTB on Aruba=Rudy Croes relatives

The term "young" is what matters...I think it means the children of Babylonians as in their kids.  Changes the post and it's meaning depending on what you think is correct.  Those that use Caps interpretation of Shango must remember he changed his ideas as he went along and what meant something at the beginning did not end up that way when he finished. In other words, he changed his mind as much as we do trying to make it fit.  He indicted Steve Croes was the 5th suspect in the beginning and then changed that thought several times over the course of his theory due to additional information he learned. I have forgotten who he finally settled on in the end...it seems he was making a full circle to the same conclusions many monkeys had already made.  Which would validate much the work done in Shango in the end. Just some thoughts to consider.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on June 30, 2008, 09:46:44 AM
What does "young Babylonians" mean?  That would depend on your definition of Babylonian. 

Babylonians= Dutch=young Dutch kids
Babylonians= Gamblers=kids that gamble in casinos
Babylonians= PTB on Aruba=Rudy Croes relatives

The term "young" is what matters...I think it means the children of Babylonians as in their kids.  Changes the post and it's meaning depending on what you think is correct.  Those that use Caps interpretation of Shango must remember he changed his ideas as he went along and what meant something at the beginning did not end up that way when he finished. In other words, he changed his mind as much as we do trying to make it fit.  He indicted Steve Croes was the 5th suspect in the beginning and then changed that thought several times over the course of his theory due to additional information he learned. I have forgotten who he finally settled on in the end...it seems he was making a full circle to the same conclusions many monkeys had already made.  Which would validate much the work done in Shango in the end. Just some thoughts to consider.

I agree.

However this is what we know for sure based on codetalkers themselves:

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:31 pm
The shivas knew the girl. the arawaks new the girl. and the babylonians still know the girl.

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:53 pm
The Simain thinks that Babalú is clueless about who the Babylonians are. The Simian thinks that is really funny. The Simian will make an exception and answer: The gamblers knew the  girl.

Babylonians = Gamblers. Parents - older gamblers like Paulus, Jaime's father, the ones with their sons at the casino.


Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:01 pm
Of whom is the young Babylonian afraid? Why won’t he talk?

Based on Shango, chewed up tongue = young Babylonian = young gambler = Joran.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 30, 2008, 09:57:42 AM
So that would eliminate Rudy's kids?  OR does it?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on June 30, 2008, 10:04:12 AM
Cont'd from prev. post...Babylonians are Gamblers, and the Elders are the founding families - Solignier, Croes, Wever, Odueber. Children of the elders, Rudy's sons is who you said you were looking for.


Question - does anybody know who 'G" is?  I thought it was GvCromvoirt, but not so sure now after reading a recap of Joran's book posted on SM:

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1097.0

P 250
According to ABC, Geoffrey got connected to the case after a taxi driver had declared that he had Natalee in his car in an intoxicated state. In the car she was dialing with a cell phone and spoke about a “Dutch boy” with whom she’d fallen in love. That was confirmed by Natalee's friends in Alabama. They also provided the police with a matching description of GVC, and the initial of his first name.

Natalee indeed had met a "G" in CnCs, however this one came from Amsterdam. Beside the fact that Geoffrey didn’t come from Amsterdam, he also wasn’t at Aruba before the summer, like "G" had told Natalee and her friends.

Around 10.45, the girls are starting to give bodyshots. Natalee is the first one of the group who let them took a bodyshot. Fellow student Beau Barron is the first who took a bodyshot of her belly....

Excerpt;  The man out of the bus and an unknown white guy with brown hair are watching Natalee while she is giving bodyshots....Natalee didn`t talk to either one of them. Ruth and Natalee are getting a conversation with a guy from Amsterdam who calls himself  "G"..... He tells Ruth and Natalee that he`s on Aruba for the summer and has an apartment here Jeremy Brown, the ex bf of Natalee is also dancing for awhile on the stage with Natalee....

HannieC  Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 10:04 pm       
Excerpt;Natalee doesn`t play blackjack, she walks around between her gf`s and is constantly calling with a cell phone. At 8.40 she takes a mix drink with vodka... At the blackjack table are sitting two men, one of them is white, about 45 years of age and has dark hair. Madison had seen this guy two days before already in the Holiday Inn Casino. Some people thought they recognized Joran`s father, but Paul was already gone. The other one, is a quiet white young guy. He has said, he came from the Netherlands and that he was 19 years old.... li'l Shango's MommyJoined: 23 Mar 2006Posts: 8448Location: The Hague, The Netherlands


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 30, 2008, 10:17:45 AM
Cont'd from prev. post...Babylonians are Gamblers, and the Elders are the founding families - Solignier, Croes, Wever, Odueber. Children of the elders, Rudy's sons is who you said you were looking for.


Question - does anybody know who 'G" is?  I thought it was GvCromvoirt, but not so sure now after reading a recap of Joran's book posted on SM:

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1097.0

P 250
According to ABC, Geoffrey got connected to the case after a taxi driver had declared that he had Natalee in his car in an intoxicated state. In the car she was dialing with a cell phone and spoke about a “Dutch boy” with whom she’d fallen in love. That was confirmed by Natalee's friends in Alabama. They also provided the police with a matching description of GVC, and the initial of his first name.

Natalee indeed had met a "G" in CnCs, however this one came from Amsterdam. Beside the fact that Geoffrey didn’t come from Amsterdam, he also wasn’t at Aruba before the summer, like "G" had told Natalee and her friends.

Around 10.45, the girls are starting to give bodyshots. Natalee is the first one of the group who let them took a bodyshot. Fellow student Beau Barron is the first who took a bodyshot of her belly....

Excerpt;  The man out of the bus and an unknown white guy with brown hair are watching Natalee while she is giving bodyshots....Natalee didn`t talk to either one of them. Ruth and Natalee are getting a conversation with a guy from Amsterdam who calls himself  "G"..... He tells Ruth and Natalee that he`s on Aruba for the summer and has an apartment here Jeremy Brown, the ex bf of Natalee is also dancing for awhile on the stage with Natalee....

HannieC  Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 10:04 pm       
Excerpt;Natalee doesn`t play blackjack, she walks around between her gf`s and is constantly calling with a cell phone. At 8.40 she takes a mix drink with vodka... At the blackjack table are sitting two men, one of them is white, about 45 years of age and has dark hair. Madison had seen this guy two days before already in the Holiday Inn Casino. Some people thought they recognized Joran`s father, but Paul was already gone. The other one, is a quiet white young guy. He has said, he came from the Netherlands and that he was 19 years old.... li'l Shango's MommyJoined: 23 Mar 2006Posts: 8448Location: The Hague, The Netherlands


I have looked at Geoffrey Wever as "G'. He works for Croes Wever and Cheung law firm, Hendrick's and could have been in Aruba for the summer, had his own apartment and working at the casino. Even tracked Geoffrey to Amsterdam University, IIRC. There is a woman Croes-Wever works there as well. Caps said it couldn't be him as it needed to be a Croes, but I am not so sure. Not sure that Geoffrey is not a Croes...LOL

I believe the quiet young white guy, 19, is how Joran presented himself...This is how I always read it...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on June 30, 2008, 10:17:55 AM