Scared Monkeys Discussion Forum

Natalee Holloway => Shango/Simian and other Codetalkers => Topic started by: klaasend on June 03, 2008, 04:43:49 PM



Title: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: klaasend on June 03, 2008, 04:43:49 PM
Link to the last page of #3 here


http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2787.1960


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 03, 2008, 07:32:52 PM
Thought I would bring over a convo we had today in NCD (NAH) thread today about Freddy and his brother Ernesto.  Some interesting things in there that may be related to Shango in some way.

Link to page: http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2879.440


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Kermit on June 03, 2008, 08:23:00 PM
old info from my files, don't know if it is of any use for ya'll


finngirl11
Monkey Junkey
Joined: 31 Jul 2005
Location: Northern Utah
PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2005 4:47 am    Post subject:    Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

http://www.planethuff.com/darkside/archives/cat_the_vanishing_of_natalee_holloway.html
Official Charges on Freddy:
Intentionally distribute and show sexual images of a minor
Intercourse with someone he knows is unconscious

finngirl11
Monkey Junkey
Joined: 31 Jul 2005
Location: Northern Utah
   
PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2005 4:47 am    Post subject:    Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

http://www.planethuff.com/darkside/archives/cat_the_vanishing_of_natalee_holloway.html


Geraldo: Tell me about the young woman

Helen: She is a minor, so I won’t say anything about her. She has been involved in whatever the young man is being accused of right now sexual harassment..assault, whatever you want to call it. She is not the only one, the news we are getting right now is there are sex films and they have been selling them. I think it is a little bigger than even we expect as far as information I am getting right now.

Geraldo: Helen, do you know whether the authorities have seized the DVDs?

Helen: I don’t know that, they do have something, otherwise they would not have made these charges
http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/2005/08/28/transcripts-from-geraldo-sat-night-official-charges-against-freddie/
http://www.exposetheleft.com/2005/08/28/helenvinda/

Here is a fox news story about Freddy Arambatzis, note that photos are mentioned and not video. the girl was a minor, and I heard several comments about a video tape being sold around their circle of friends of this girl. Tickle site is down, he was locoman pimp.
http://tinyurl.com/gb627
http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/2006/04/28/aruba-natalee-holloway-comment-post-26/#comments

Simian Says:
June 29th, 2005 at 4:18 pm
4:29 post
JVDS and Kalpoes are involved in prostitution/drugs ring themselves, not just getting dope from the dealers



Sillymonkey Freddy and Jaime were listed on Joran's sites as his "best friends." Jaime is the one who some of the MB kids emailed after. When they asked about Natalee, he unleased a bunch of vile garbage and said she got what she deserved. I think the kids then read him the riot act and passed his emails along to the FBI.

Jamie is Columbian
Freddy is Venezulean

Frederick Jacinthus Arends of DVD Land & CD is his father?

The picture of Freddy's house, I know the address for the pic is 39F
but that is his mom's address on the chamber list for 2004.
Her address on the list as of 05/06/05 is Montanja 62.

So where was he residing when Natalee went missing and where does he currently live?


Arambatzis
ARAMBATZIS-RODRIGUEZ ALBERT     LILIAN REGINA     MONTANJA     39-F
http://www.arubachamber.com/DISKKLEINBEDRIJF31JULI2004.htm


#39-F Montana (Montanja), Noord

Freddy’s house:
7A Catiri (apartment)

MOm's address is: 62 Montana is ARAMBATZIS-RODRIGUEZ address in NOORD

http://209.157.64.201/focus/f-backroom/1471591/posts

http://www.immob.biz/?p=alles&id=927&lang=NL
http://www.google.com/search?q=ARAMBATZIS+aruba&hl=en&lr=&rls=GGLG,GGLG:2005-33,GGLG:en&tab=nw&ie=UTF-8&sa=N

T. J. Ward stated that Freddy lives behind Joran.

Adres: Montana 39F en 39G
MONTANA, ARUBA (ARUBA) Vraagprijs: € 221.000






Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 03, 2008, 08:35:41 PM
old info from my files, don't know if it is of any use for ya'll


finngirl11
Monkey Junkey
Joined: 31 Jul 2005
Location: Northern Utah
PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2005 4:47 am    Post subject:    Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

http://www.planethuff.com/darkside/archives/cat_the_vanishing_of_natalee_holloway.html
Official Charges on Freddy:
Intentionally distribute and show sexual images of a minor
Intercourse with someone he knows is unconscious

finngirl11
Monkey Junkey
Joined: 31 Jul 2005
Location: Northern Utah
   
PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2005 4:47 am    Post subject:    Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

http://www.planethuff.com/darkside/archives/cat_the_vanishing_of_natalee_holloway.html


Geraldo: Tell me about the young woman

Helen: She is a minor, so I won’t say anything about her. She has been involved in whatever the young man is being accused of right now sexual harassment..assault, whatever you want to call it. She is not the only one, the news we are getting right now is there are sex films and they have been selling them. I think it is a little bigger than even we expect as far as information I am getting right now.

Geraldo: Helen, do you know whether the authorities have seized the DVDs?

Helen: I don’t know that, they do have something, otherwise they would not have made these charges
http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/2005/08/28/transcripts-from-geraldo-sat-night-official-charges-against-freddie/
http://www.exposetheleft.com/2005/08/28/helenvinda/

Here is a fox news story about Freddy Arambatzis, note that photos are mentioned and not video. the girl was a minor, and I heard several comments about a video tape being sold around their circle of friends of this girl. Tickle site is down, he was locoman pimp.
http://tinyurl.com/gb627
http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/2006/04/28/aruba-natalee-holloway-comment-post-26/#comments

Simian Says:
June 29th, 2005 at 4:18 pm
4:29 post
JVDS and Kalpoes are involved in prostitution/drugs ring themselves, not just getting dope from the dealers



Sillymonkey Freddy and Jaime were listed on Joran's sites as his "best friends." Jaime is the one who some of the MB kids emailed after. When they asked about Natalee, he unleased a bunch of vile garbage and said she got what she deserved. I think the kids then read him the riot act and passed his emails along to the FBI.

Jamie is Columbian
Freddy is Venezulean

Frederick Jacinthus Arends of DVD Land & CD is his father?[/b]

The picture of Freddy's house, I know the address for the pic is 39F
but that is his mom's address on the chamber list for 2004.
Her address on the list as of 05/06/05 is Montanja 62.

So where was he residing when Natalee went missing and where does he currently live?


Arambatzis
ARAMBATZIS-RODRIGUEZ ALBERT     LILIAN REGINA     MONTANJA     39-F
http://www.arubachamber.com/DISKKLEINBEDRIJF31JULI2004.htm


#39-F Montana (Montanja), Noord

Freddy’s house:
7A Catiri (apartment)

MOm's address is: 62 Montana is ARAMBATZIS-RODRIGUEZ address in NOORD

http://209.157.64.201/focus/f-backroom/1471591/posts

http://www.immob.biz/?p=alles&id=927&lang=NL
http://www.google.com/search?q=ARAMBATZIS+aruba&hl=en&lr=&rls=GGLG,GGLG:2005-33,GGLG:en&tab=nw&ie=UTF-8&sa=N

T. J. Ward stated that Freddy lives behind Joran.

Adres: Montana 39F en 39G
MONTANA, ARUBA (ARUBA) Vraagprijs: € 221.000







I recall reading that one of Jossy’s niece was married to an Arends…Is this the one???????????


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 03, 2008, 09:54:43 PM


Quote Kermit…
Sillymonkey Freddy and Jaime were listed on Joran's sites as his "best friends." Jaime is the one who some of the MB kids emailed after. When they asked about Natalee, he unleased a bunch of vile garbage and said she got what she deserved. I think the kids then read him the riot act and passed his emails along to the FBI.Jamie is ColumbianFreddy is VenezuleanFrederick Jacinthus Arends of DVD Land & CD is his father?[/b]

Quote Mum
I recall reading that one of Jossy’s niece was married to an Arends…Is this the one???????????

Nope, wrong one! ::MonkeyWink::

« Reply #644 on: February 12, 2008, 03:23:54 PM »   
 

Quote from: Anna on February 12, 2008, 02:49:07 PM
And which one of the Max's is the nephew of Jossy?

I have forgotten.

.Quote from: klaasend on February 12, 2008, 02:56:40 PM
I don't know if either one is.   Where did you hear that info?

Quote Anna
Very early and I can't recall now but the mother of one is the sister or niece of Jossy.  I think it is the one who went to college in Florida.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 04, 2008, 05:20:41 AM
Good Morning COLUMBO and all the Tangoers... ::MonkeyWink::

This is the time period that I have always thought that Freddy was a suspect.  Included all the statement data that I think pertains to Steve or Freddy….and the FP posts about Freddy from before Simian's first post. Notice that there are NO statements from Freddy while Steve is a suspect!

Connie on June 17th, 2005 12:18 pm
From looking at the back of this guy that was brought in this morning, his size and hair, I honestly think it was that freddy guy in the pics with Joran and the Kalpoe brothers.

Checkme on June 17th, 2005 1:23 pm
Connie,
The guy this morning is not Dutch. The guy they brought in last night is. However, it looks like the not-Dutch guy is JvdS’s friend and the Dutch guy is the Kalpoe’s


Connie on June 17th, 2005 1:29 pm
Oh, thanks Check, then it is possible that the guy I was this morning was “Freddy” from the pics. I know initials were given, but right off hand I can’t remember what they were. and I’m too lazy to scroll up to see what it was. (lol)

Name: Steve Croes
Date: 15 June 2005 / 16:25
Pages: 3
Writer/Initiator: Luigi Croes
Description: witness statement 

Name: Freddy Alexander Arambatzis
Date: 16 June 2005115:30
Pages: 8
Writer/Initiator: Dennis Jacobs & Marcelino Ras
Description: witness statement

Name: Freddy Zedan
Date:17 Juni 2005
Pages: 6
Writer/Initiator: Dennis Jacobs, Eric Soemers
Description: witness statement

Name: Steve Croes
Date: 17 June 2005 / 07:40
Pages: 4
Writer/Initiator. Dennis Jacobs/Luigi Croes
Description: suspect interrogation
Responsive to Request 41

Simian on June 17th, 2005 5:08 pm - first post

Name: Steve Croes
Date: 21 June 2005 / 13:00
Pages: 5
Writer/Initiato: Shaniro Kelly / Clyde Burke
Description: interrogation of a suspect

Name: John Charles Croes
Date: 22 June 2005
Pages: 2
Writer/Initiator DENNIS JACOBS/LUIGI CROES
Description: Chat traffic

Name:Maria De Figaroa
Date: 22 June 2005 / 18:05
Pages: 2
Writer/Initiator. Giovanni Heyliger
Description: witness statement by a friend of Steve Croes

Name: Karen Martina
Date: 23 June 2005113:55
Pages: 6
Writer/Initiator: Dennis Jacobs / Juan Boezem
Description: witness statement by a friend of Van der Sloot and Arrambatzis

Name: Karen Martina
Date: 24 June 2005 / 13:50
Pages: 5
Writer/Initiator. Dennis Jacobs / Marcelino Ras
Description: witness statement

Name: Freddy Alexander Zedan Arambatzis
Date:28 June 2005 / 14:25
Pages: 11
Writer/Initiator: Shaniro Kelly & Haydee Nadal
Description: witness statement

Name: Lorenzo Van Rijn
Date: 28 June 2005 / 17:00
Pages: 2
Writer/Initiator: Giovanni Heyliger
Description: witness statement

Name: Carmen Aurora Jacopucci
Date: 28 June 2005 / 15:55
Pages: 6
Writer/Initiator: Dennis Jacobs /Marcelino Ras
Description: witness statement by a fried of Van der Sloot and Araambatzis

Name: John Charles Croes
Date: 28 June 2005
Pages: 3
Writer/Initiator: Johny Erasmus / Zoraida De Cuba
Description: Chat traffic

Name: Annie Vicenta Todd
Date: 28 June 2005
Pages: 1
Writer/Initiator: Ghrizanti Tromp & Dennis Jacobs
Description: witness pointing out an area of interest

Name: Annie Vicenta Todd
Date: 28 June 2005
Pages: 3
Writer/Initiator: Ghrizanti Tromp & Dennis Jacobs
Description: witness statement about a gray Toyota

Name: Rafael Solognier
Date: 30 June 2005 / 16:45
Pages: 1
Writer/Initiator: Omar Kelly
Description: Car search

Name: Zuriel Yagaray
Date: 29 June 2005 / 15:20
Pages: 3
Writer/Initiator: Shaniro Baidrik / Luigi Croes
Description: witness statement

Name: Julia Refno
Date: 30 June 2005 / 13:45
Pages: 3
Writer) nitiaton Omar Kelly
Description: witness statement

Name: Z.A Yarzagaray
Date: 30 June 2005 / 22:00
Pages: 4
Writer/Initiator: Luigi Croes / Shaniro Baldrik
Description: witness statement

Name: Z.A Yarzagaray
Date: 30 June 2005 / 22:00
Pages: 4
Writer/Initiator: Luigi Croes / Shaniro Baldrik
Description: witness statement

+ Name: Z.A Yarzagaray
Date: 1 July 2005 / 11:20
Pages: 2
Writer/Initiator: Shaniro Baldrik / Roland Tromp
Description: Car description

Name: Freddy Zedan Arrambatzis
Date: 1 July 2005
Pages: 9
Writer/Initiator: Dennis Jacobs & Haydee Azucena
Description: witness statement

Baboon Posted Jul 1, 10:38 AM - last post by Simian until Merian

Steve Croes will not be sacrificed…for Freddy?

Who said the alibi played for the Sloots

The other car





Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 04, 2008, 05:34:36 AM
Poor old Steve was even questioned in August when Freddy was supposedly arrested…This was the time that his mother called an American news station and said she was worried he was to be arrested again!  Steve said he was going to pick something up and that he had been exonerated.  The two law enforcement that took his statement are Dutch, from what I can tell, and it appears they didn't think he was exonerated! LOL

Name: Steve Croes
Date: 29 August 2005 / 9:15
Pages: 6
Writer/Initiator: A.R De Ruiter/ CJM Burgwal
Description: interrogation of a suspect

Somehow it appears that Freddy was not even questioned once during his stay in jail! There are statements from a girl who filed a compaint and some other pimps, but not from Freddy!

No-one saw Freddy being released…is it a coincidence that this series of events went down on Labor Day weekend…and Natalee disappeared on Memorial Day weekend…Hmmmm!!




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on June 04, 2008, 05:43:24 PM
Good Morning COLUMBO and all the Tangoers... ::MonkeyWink::

This is the time period that I have always thought that Freddy was a suspect.  Included all the statement data that I think pertains to Steve or Freddy….and the FP posts about Freddy from before Simian's first post. Notice that there are NO statements from Freddy while Steve is a suspect!

Connie on June 17th, 2005 12:18 pm
From looking at the back of this guy that was brought in this morning, his size and hair, I honestly think it was that freddy guy in the pics with Joran and the Kalpoe brothers.

Checkme on June 17th, 2005 1:23 pm
Connie,
The guy this morning is not Dutch. The guy they brought in last night is. However, it looks like the not-Dutch guy is JvdS’s friend and the Dutch guy is the Kalpoe’s


Connie on June 17th, 2005 1:29 pm
Oh, thanks Check, then it is possible that the guy I was this morning was “Freddy” from the pics. I know initials were given, but right off hand I can’t remember what they were. and I’m too lazy to scroll up to see what it was. (lol)

Name: Steve Croes
Date: 15 June 2005 / 16:25
Pages: 3
Writer/Initiator: Luigi Croes
Description: witness statement 

Name: Freddy Alexander Arambatzis
Date: 16 June 2005115:30
Pages: 8
Writer/Initiator: Dennis Jacobs & Marcelino Ras
Description: witness statement

Name: Freddy Zedan
Date:17 Juni 2005
Pages: 6
Writer/Initiator: Dennis Jacobs, Eric Soemers
Description: witness statement

Name: Steve Croes
Date: 17 June 2005 / 07:40
Pages: 4
Writer/Initiator. Dennis Jacobs/Luigi Croes
Description: suspect interrogation
Responsive to Request 41

Simian on June 17th, 2005 5:08 pm - first post

Name: Steve Croes
Date: 21 June 2005 / 13:00
Pages: 5
Writer/Initiato: Shaniro Kelly / Clyde Burke
Description: interrogation of a suspect

Name: John Charles Croes
Date: 22 June 2005
Pages: 2
Writer/Initiator DENNIS JACOBS/LUIGI CROES
Description: Chat traffic

Name:Maria De Figaroa
Date: 22 June 2005 / 18:05
Pages: 2
Writer/Initiator. Giovanni Heyliger
Description: witness statement by a friend of Steve Croes

Name: Karen Martina
Date: 23 June 2005113:55
Pages: 6
Writer/Initiator: Dennis Jacobs / Juan Boezem
Description: witness statement by a friend of Van der Sloot and Arrambatzis

Name: Karen Martina
Date: 24 June 2005 / 13:50
Pages: 5
Writer/Initiator. Dennis Jacobs / Marcelino Ras
Description: witness statement

Name: Freddy Alexander Zedan Arambatzis
Date:28 June 2005 / 14:25
Pages: 11
Writer/Initiator: Shaniro Kelly & Haydee Nadal
Description: witness statement

Name: Lorenzo Van Rijn
Date: 28 June 2005 / 17:00
Pages: 2
Writer/Initiator: Giovanni Heyliger
Description: witness statement

Name: Carmen Aurora Jacopucci
Date: 28 June 2005 / 15:55
Pages: 6
Writer/Initiator: Dennis Jacobs /Marcelino Ras
Description: witness statement by a fried of Van der Sloot and Araambatzis

Name: John Charles Croes
Date: 28 June 2005
Pages: 3
Writer/Initiator: Johny Erasmus / Zoraida De Cuba
Description: Chat traffic

Name: Annie Vicenta Todd
Date: 28 June 2005
Pages: 1
Writer/Initiator: Ghrizanti Tromp & Dennis Jacobs
Description: witness pointing out an area of interest

Name: Annie Vicenta Todd
Date: 28 June 2005
Pages: 3
Writer/Initiator: Ghrizanti Tromp & Dennis Jacobs
Description: witness statement about a gray Toyota

Name: Rafael Solognier
Date: 30 June 2005 / 16:45
Pages: 1
Writer/Initiator: Omar Kelly
Description: Car search

Name: Zuriel Yagaray
Date: 29 June 2005 / 15:20
Pages: 3
Writer/Initiator: Shaniro Baidrik / Luigi Croes
Description: witness statement

Name: Julia Refno
Date: 30 June 2005 / 13:45
Pages: 3
Writer) nitiaton Omar Kelly
Description: witness statement

Name: Z.A Yarzagaray
Date: 30 June 2005 / 22:00
Pages: 4
Writer/Initiator: Luigi Croes / Shaniro Baldrik
Description: witness statement

Name: Z.A Yarzagaray
Date: 30 June 2005 / 22:00
Pages: 4
Writer/Initiator: Luigi Croes / Shaniro Baldrik
Description: witness statement

+ Name: Z.A Yarzagaray
Date: 1 July 2005 / 11:20
Pages: 2
Writer/Initiator: Shaniro Baldrik / Roland Tromp
Description: Car description

Name: Freddy Zedan Arrambatzis
Date: 1 July 2005
Pages: 9
Writer/Initiator: Dennis Jacobs & Haydee Azucena
Description: witness statement

Baboon Posted Jul 1, 10:38 AM - last post by Simian until Merian

Steve Croes will not be sacrificed…for Freddy?

Who said the alibi played for the Sloots

The other car







in Shango there are no hidden suspects
he goes on to say that DH and the elder may not be crucified
Simian never mentions PVDS prior to the fifth
Simian never mentions the fifth after mentioning PVDS


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on June 04, 2008, 05:45:14 PM
also-elder had one, or two, cards up his sleeve that were played......could that be describing the exchange that was posted earlier re: 2 folks brought in, 1 dutch, 1 not dutch?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on June 04, 2008, 05:46:54 PM
1 card was kept hidden......(assuming) the other was not


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Kermit on June 04, 2008, 06:46:58 PM
"I took the camera to Freddy’s house.
We delivered the camera to Freddy, and afterwards all four of us ate Chinese in the area of Freddy’s house. Freddy also lives in Montanja."
(Satish Kalpoe Suspect Statement June 24, 2005.)

Zedan Arambatzis – age 21 in 2005
Joran met Freddy Zedan Arambatzis when Freddy was 19, they met during a tournament at the racquetball club. (source:p. 1 Jorans book)
Freddy is a light colored latino from Venezuela that only spoke papi. (source: p. 1 Joran's book)
Freddy's English sucked (source p. 5 Joran's book)
I am the best friend and neighbor of Joran. We got to know each other about two years ago.(source: June 12 Freddy's statement as written in Joran's book)
Freddy lives behind Joran.( D-6/11)

19 Montanja Joran van der Sloot
232 Montanja Jaime Carrasquilla
7A Catiri Freddy Zedan Arambatziz


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Kermit on June 04, 2008, 08:47:44 PM
Five members of the Aruban Mansur Family, viz. Mr. Elias F. Mansur, Mrs. Damia M. de Cuba-Mansur, Mr. Luis E. Mansur, Mr. Miguel J. Mansur and Mrs. Sarah E. Arends-Mansur, have raised objections against general references in the following chapter to the Mansurs or the Mansur family. In their opinion these references may be understood as including them and thereby implicating them in alleged wrongdoing they have never committed.
The author is of the opinion that such references to a large family will not be misunderstood as including each and every member of the family. However, in case this opinion should prove incorrect, the author points out that he regrets such misunderstanding and that he did not intend said references to implicate all members of the family.
Posted by: iquitos | Oct 25, 2005 12:55:56 AM

Eric Mansure’s sister-in-law is Jan van der Straaten’s secretary. (p.153 Holloway).

 Eduardo Mansur, co-founder of the Aruba Search and Rescue Foundation

Max Arrends mother is Sarah E. Arends-Mansur (sister or niece of Jossy Mansur)
ARENDS-MANSURSARAH ELIANA ADRIAAN LACLE BLVD. 16
MANSUR    JOSSY MEHSEN    IERLANDSTRAAT    10    ORANJESTAD
MANSUR    LUIS EMILIO    MALMOKWEG    22    NOORD


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 04, 2008, 11:39:46 PM
Thanks Kermie..you always have the answers we need.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 05, 2008, 08:08:19 AM
Which Max Arends are we talking about here? The one that was Joran's classmate or Lorenzo's friend?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 05, 2008, 08:30:46 AM
Which Max Arends are we talking about here? The one that was Joran's classmate or Lorenzo's friend?


Good Morning...I believe young Max...Bibbi's? son...the one scuba spoke to in the movie theater in Florida...I am checking on Sarah now as I thought I read she was 60 and I think that might make her Grandma! Not sure because I don't understand the name connections...and my logic tells me that their kids would be Mansur if she is Jossy's sister!

I thought Vanessa was Momma from previous discussions and pics and Poppa is Maximilon,sp....they are so darn connected!!!!

There is a pic of Sarah I saw the other day, I just have to find it again!

There is a Madeline with the names reversed which I think would make their kids Arends!!! Confused...Welcome to the new Shango thread!!!   ::MonkeyHaHa::





Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 05, 2008, 08:49:05 AM
Here is a pic of a Sara...they can't spell over there so it may be Sarah! Scroll down th the bottom og the page! It is about La Cabanarom July 2001...makes me think she is not Max's Mom!

I think Madeline's name is the same way around!!!

Vms....Help!!!...Pita....Help!....Please... ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyHaHa::

http://www.visitaruba.com/facts/newsdesk/backissues/newsletter50.html


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 05, 2008, 09:41:52 AM
Poor old Steve was even questioned in August when Freddy was supposedly arrested…This was the time that his mother called an American news station and said she was worried he was to be arrested again!  Steve said he was going to pick something up and that he had been exonerated.  The two law enforcement that took his statement are Dutch, from what I can tell, and it appears they didn't think he was exonerated! LOL

Name: Steve Croes
Date: 29 August 2005 / 9:15
Pages: 6
Writer/Initiator: A.R De Ruiter/ CJM Burgwal
Description: interrogation of a suspect

Somehow it appears that Freddy was not even questioned once during his stay in jail! There are statements from a girl who filed a compaint and some other pimps, but not from Freddy!

No-one saw Freddy being released…is it a coincidence that this series of events went down on Labor Day weekend…and Natalee disappeared on Memorial Day weekend…Hmmmm!!




Are you saying it's possible that Simian was trying to deflect away from Steve when he mentioned the 5th suspect?  I was after Steve's arrest and it looked as if he would take a big hit as being involved.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 05, 2008, 09:43:33 AM
Which Max Arends are we talking about here? The one that was Joran's classmate or Lorenzo's friend?


Good Morning...I believe young Max...Bibbi's? son...the one scuba spoke to in the movie theater in Florida...I am checking on Sarah now as I thought I read she was 60 and I think that might make her Grandma! Not sure because I don't understand the name connections...and my logic tells me that their kids would be Mansur if she is Jossy's sister!

I thought Vanessa was Momma from previous discussions and pics and Poppa is Maximilon,sp....they are so darn connected!!!!

There is a pic of Sarah I saw the other day, I just have to find it again!

There is a Madeline with the names reversed which I think would make their kids Arends!!! Confused...Welcome to the new Shango thread!!!   ::MonkeyHaHa::





Vanessa?  As in the poster Vanessa?  I am confused for sure. LOL


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: jackb on June 05, 2008, 11:16:19 AM
Poor old Steve was even questioned in August when Freddy was supposedly arrested…This was the time that his mother called an American news station and said she was worried he was to be arrested again!  Steve said he was going to pick something up and that he had been exonerated.  The two law enforcement that took his statement are Dutch, from what I can tell, and it appears they didn't think he was exonerated! LOL

Name: Steve Croes
Date: 29 August 2005 / 9:15
Pages: 6
Writer/Initiator: A.R De Ruiter/ CJM Burgwal
Description: interrogation of a suspect

Somehow it appears that Freddy was not even questioned once during his stay in jail! There are statements from a girl who filed a compaint and some other pimps, but not from Freddy!

No-one saw Freddy being released…is it a coincidence that this series of events went down on Labor Day weekend…and Natalee disappeared on Memorial Day weekend…Hmmmm!!




What I could pick up from "who said the alibi played for the Sloots..."
is that Steve by alibing NH was dropped off at the hotel was to alibi someone else....This would probbly alibi a lot of people as well as himself if NH returned to the hotel including Freddy who may have been  in the other car.  Now since Steve and GCV were friends, perhaps he along with everyone else was mainly alibiing Geofrey Cromvroit and himself by making sure everyone knew she was back at her hotel and not out where any of them had prevented her return.   That is how I read this, even though the question mark makes the reading more difficult.  That was pretty slick.   Jack b


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: vms on June 05, 2008, 11:46:51 AM
Here is a pic of a Sara...they can't spell over there so it may be Sarah! Scroll down th the bottom og the page! It is about La Cabanarom July 2001...makes me think she is not Max's Mom!

I think Madeline's name is the same way around!!!

Vms....Help!!!...Pita....Help!....Please... ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyHaHa::

http://www.visitaruba.com/facts/newsdesk/backissues/newsletter50.html


Exactly, Mum. Vanessa is Bibi's wife.


ARENDS-MANSUR, SARAH ELIANA
Residing in  ADRIAAN LACLE BLVD. 16, ORANJESTAD, ARUBA 
Born in  ARUBA on 24 AUGUST 1937




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: vms on June 05, 2008, 12:05:13 PM
ARENDS MAXIMILIANO FRANCISCO PALMITASTRAAT 1

ARENDS-CROES VANESSA YOLANDA PALMITASTRAAT 1

http://www.arubachamber.com/DISKKLEINBEDRIJF31JULI2004.htm


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 05, 2008, 12:30:45 PM
ARENDS MAXIMILIANO FRANCISCO PALMITASTRAAT 1

ARENDS-CROES VANESSA YOLANDA PALMITASTRAAT 1

http://www.arubachamber.com/DISKKLEINBEDRIJF31JULI2004.htm

Vanessa ARENDS-CROES  ::MonkeyShocked::

Thanks vms...I wonder...does Vanessa have any brothers, even sisters could get interesting!

I wonder who Max's cousins are?

I think everyone who is not directly from Holland is related down there, all the Arubans...by marriage somehow!!!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 05, 2008, 02:48:03 PM
Now is Vanessa related to Freddy? Is Bibbi related to Freddy?  I think I have names confused again.

What is Ernesto's full name?  Would that include an Arends? 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on June 05, 2008, 04:40:17 PM
Poor old Steve was even questioned in August when Freddy was supposedly arrested…This was the time that his mother called an American news station and said she was worried he was to be arrested again!  Steve said he was going to pick something up and that he had been exonerated.  The two law enforcement that took his statement are Dutch, from what I can tell, and it appears they didn't think he was exonerated! LOL

Name: Steve Croes
Date: 29 August 2005 / 9:15
Pages: 6
Writer/Initiator: A.R De Ruiter/ CJM Burgwal
Description: interrogation of a suspect

Somehow it appears that Freddy was not even questioned once during his stay in jail! There are statements from a girl who filed a compaint and some other pimps, but not from Freddy!

No-one saw Freddy being released…is it a coincidence that this series of events went down on Labor Day weekend…and Natalee disappeared on Memorial Day weekend…Hmmmm!!




What I could pick up from "who said the alibi played for the Sloots..."
is that Steve by alibing NH was dropped off at the hotel was to alibi someone else....This would probbly alibi a lot of people as well as himself if NH returned to the hotel including Freddy who may have been  in the other car.  Now since Steve and GCV were friends, perhaps he along with everyone else was mainly alibiing Geofrey Cromvroit and himself by making sure everyone knew she was back at her hotel and not out where any of them had prevented her return.   That is how I read this, even though the question mark makes the reading more difficult.  That was pretty slick.   Jack b


The elder had one or two cards up his sleeve
They have been played and lost
Will one of the cards sing

The fallen judge and the singing card are of the same hand, but it is dangerous for the Arawaks to play it, because everyone would hear, including the cowboys

The Arawaks may not need to play the singing card
The cowboys won’t hear the music and the teepees will be safe

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:53 pm
DirtyHand is the key
He walks with the elders
He walks in all houses
And he walked with the fallen elder
he was the hidden card that was played
now if he sings, babylon will fall on the arawak nation


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on June 05, 2008, 04:45:51 PM
fyi:


Billionaire Drug Bust

Broadcom's co-founder charged in tawdry narcotics indictment

JUNE 5--A technology billionaire was a drug fiend who trafficked in cocaine, Ecstasy, and methamphetamine, spiked the drinks of business associates and employees, hired prostitutes for himself and others, and maintained several narcotics dens, including one in an underground lair at his Los Angeles mansion, prosecutors charge. In a remarkable federal indictment unsealed today in Los Angeles, Broadcom co-founder Henry T. Nicholas III is portrayed as an out-of-control wild man who scored drug caches for Super Bowl parties and rock festivals and had his dealer invoice him for these illicit purchases. A copy of the felony drug conspiracy indictment against Nicholas, who is reportedly worth about $2 billion, can be found below. The 48-year-old Nicholas, who was charged with securities fraud in a separate U.S. District Court case, allegedly "used threats of physical violence and death and payments of money to attempt to conceal his unlawful conduct," according to the indictment. Prosecutors allege that, in June 2002, Nicholas and Broadcom entered into a $1 million settlement agreement with an employee who was aware of the executive's "unlawful narcotics activity." The hefty payout, which Broadcom covered, contractually prevented the employee from speaking about Nicholas's drug abuse. The billionaire apparently did little to conceal his drug transactions. On one occasion, in the lobby of Broadcom's southern California headquarters, he directed an employee to provide cash to a courier "in exchange for an envelope containing controlled substances," the indictment charges. On a drug-fueled 2001 private plane flight--during which Nicholas allegedly used and distributed narcotics--the pilot was forced to don an oxygen mask due to the "marijuana smoke and fumes." According to a March 2008 Forbes story, Nicholas, with an estimated net worth of $1.8 billion, is ranked 677 on the list of the world's wealthiest individuals.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on June 05, 2008, 05:39:06 PM
come to think of it......he really fouled the air for all nearby-on that plane


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Silverfox on June 05, 2008, 09:37:49 PM
"Dirty Hand" in Context...

Ok.. so I take some heat for even trying to possibly connect the dots between the Shango reference to "Dirty Hand" and Jossy Mansur...

And I detect it did go above the heads of some... so sorry for that...

I really doubt that Shango was trying to "indict" Dirty Hand as being a bad guy... I never really felt that that assumption. But I do feel the argument does fit, hypothetically, of course...

Lala's -- i believe it is in the last Shango Thread that it was reported that the Mansur family owns over 50% of the entire island...

Jossy's position in his business as publisher of a newspaper puts him unique to learn all sorts of things -- some printable, some not.

it is easy to blame the US 4th estate (As Mas and others have done) for interfering in an investigation...

But what if a local 4th Estate in Aruba, for example, gets so close to things politically and economically that their hands become dirty just through association and "withheld information" and reporting. 

It happens all over the world.  But really, if one were to look over all that jossy's newspaper has been involved with since the beginning of this case -- it does make one wonder.

And what if Shango was in a position to know this.  To know that the Aruban 4th Estate had the information and knew all along about what went on behind the scenes (whether it be a political back room or a history of wild drugged up sex assaults by island elite) -- then wouldn't Shango possibly reference such activity as a dirty hand?

Dirty Hand is a Methaphor -- Shango spoke in all sorts of metaphors  ....

Clear back in 1840 Thomas Dequincy rote this:

Quote
DeQuincy marks for us, it should be noted, an important philosophical difference, one drawing on a Kantian vocabulary implicitly tuned to such concepts as subjectively- and objectively-defined pursuits — that is, those drawn between ordinary common sense on the one hand, and modern science on the other: wherein a topic like "dirty hands" is considered metaphorically stylish in literature, but methodologically not in science. Although I admit it is a helpful distinction, I would add, too, it is indifferently spelled, in either case, "dirty hands" — and so may model, explicitly, like my italicized words, a slipperier, still more important truth.

My point turns on DeQuincy's common, but I think too-simplistic assumption that

   
Quote
a man who has absolute facts to communicate from some branch of study external to himself . . . is careless of style; or at least he may be so . . . for what he has to communicate neither readily admits, nor much needs, any graces in the mode of communication; the matter transcends and oppresses the manner. The matter tells without any manner at all.  -- http://www.yougotstyle.org/archives/000013.html (http://www.yougotstyle.org/archives/000013.html) 

Could it be that Shango felt that Jossy (and others) was in a position to know eactly what went on and what was going on and by association with that knowledge alone made him an accessory (not in the sense of being criminal but in the ense of just knowing but choosing not to report it)?

I like Jossy -- but for me the jury is still out because of the immense power he and his family hold on this island of disinformation.  He fits the model well if you go back and start to substitute his name for Dirty Hand in the Shango references.... try it... maybe I'm wrong, but it is the hisotry of the past which builds the foundation of the present and from what i can see the foundation is very weak.  Too much bad stuff with the mansur family as a whole has been reported...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Silverfox on June 05, 2008, 09:50:55 PM

The elder had one or two cards up his sleeve
They have been played and lost
Will one of the cards sing

The fallen judge and the singing card are of the same hand, but it is dangerous for the Arawaks to play it, because everyone would hear, including the cowboys

The Arawaks may not need to play the singing card
The cowboys won’t hear the music and the teepees will be safe

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:53 pm
"Jossy" is the key
He walks with the elders (Newspaper publisher, reporter, political advisor)
He walks in all houses (newspapers are read by and influence all, rich and poor)
And he walked with the fallen elder (Croes -- because of his economic and political position had to have known him)
he was the hidden card that was played
now if he sings, babylon will fall on the arawak nation (If he publishes what he knows the world, as Aruba knows it will end)


Remember, the current economic situation in Aruba effects his pocketbook too...

Politically his hands may be tied because he still lacks the clout in their parliament to protect his interests if hell is unleashed in the form of public disclosure of all the corruption and cover-up.  If you are an insider like Shango aludes to be you might feel that the 4th estate really does have "Dirty Hands".

The population of Aruba and island size is way to small ... Everyone knows everyone else and has something on everyone else -- but few are in the position to really report the truth to the masses and the world...

Yes, if Jossy were to sing Aruba would be shut down...IMHO


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on June 05, 2008, 10:08:22 PM
come to think of it......he really fouled the air for all nearby-on that plane

Are you talking about Henry T. Nicholas III, Dirty Hand, the hidden card?????  (on that plane, literally had me thinking of the man on the MB plane)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 05, 2008, 10:11:42 PM
I see Silverfox has paid us another visit!
 
Jossy knows! Freddy knows!
 
It seems there are quite a few who know just how things are on Aruba!
It has been very enlightening trying to unravel the riddles!  ::MonkeyWink::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 05, 2008, 10:16:07 PM
come to think of it......he really fouled the air for all nearby-on that plane

Are you talking about Henry T. Nicholas III, Dirty Hand, the hidden card?????  (on that plane, literally had me thinking of the man on the MB plane)

Hi 2NJSons...Now I will never sleep! I was going to reread in the morning and respond!

Had forgotten all about that guy! I wonder where he was from and what happened to him!!!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Silverfox on June 05, 2008, 10:16:23 PM
I see Silverfox has paid us another visit!
 
Jossy knows! Freddy knows!
 
It seems there are quite a few who know just how things are on Aruba!
It has been very enlightening trying to unravel the riddles!  ::MonkeyWink::


LOL  I don't know anything about Freddy -- but really, there is enough history about Jossy and his family to make such a leap -- hypothetically, of course...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Silverfox on June 05, 2008, 10:22:43 PM
I see Silverfox has paid us another visit!
 
Jossy knows! Freddy knows!
 
It seems there are quite a few who know just how things are on Aruba!
It has been very enlightening trying to unravel the riddles!  ::MonkeyWink::

excellent little article here:

http://www.hyscience.com/archives/2005/10/harrytho_1017_e.php (http://www.hyscience.com/archives/2005/10/harrytho_1017_e.php)

Quote
The Interbank is owned by the Mansur Family. If anybody owns 60 per cent of the island, it is this powerful family.

Jossy Mansur is the owner and chief editor of the biggest newspaper on the island, "Diario". ""When I read an article in Diario, I know what will be the next action of the government","says Hendrik Croes, adding that the Mansurs create a climate of fear and intimidation on Aruba. Their newspapers force others off the market. Furthermore, ""their annual income is bigger than the yearly budget of the government.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 05, 2008, 10:30:33 PM
I see Silverfox has paid us another visit!
 
Jossy knows! Freddy knows!
 
It seems there are quite a few who know just how things are on Aruba!
It has been very enlightening trying to unravel the riddles!  ::MonkeyWink::

excellent little article here:

http://www.hyscience.com/archives/2005/10/harrytho_1017_e.php (http://www.hyscience.com/archives/2005/10/harrytho_1017_e.php)

Quote
The Interbank is owned by the Mansur Family. If anybody owns 60 per cent of the island, it is this powerful family.

Jossy Mansur is the owner and chief editor of the biggest newspaper on the island, "Diario". ""When I read an article in Diario, I know what will be the next action of the government","says Hendrik Croes, adding that the Mansurs create a climate of fear and intimidation on Aruba. Their newspapers force others off the market. Furthermore, ""their annual income is bigger than the yearly budget of the government.


I had to chuckle when I read that Oduber had people protesting with Boycott Diario signs in 1991, when he didn't like what Jossy was writing in his paper about him and his party!   ::MonkeyHaHa::

Goodnight!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Silverfox on June 05, 2008, 10:33:39 PM
And another tidbit:

Quote
In the way of background, on October 5, 2005, Jossy Mansur, the editor of the Diario newspaper, opined that the racial problems in investigation of missing Alabama teen, Natalee Holloway, were between the Dutch and the Arubans. See 1 -- "The principal suspect is Dutch, the lead investigator was Dutch, the prosecutor is Dutch and the five judges involved are Dutch. If you think about it, an attempted boycott against Aruba is unjust, because it is misdirected and won't achieve the desired results."

Jossy Mansur is considered the godfather of the Arubanese Volks Partij (AVP).

http://www.hyscience.com/archives/2005/10/harrytho_1023_n.php (http://www.hyscience.com/archives/2005/10/harrytho_1023_n.php)

All of you have heard this all before -- but really, just go back and look at the Dirty Hand references from Shango and visualize he is talking about Jossy and his family -- put into context the information which already exists...

from the same page:

Quote
Update [hat tip - George( comments below)] : For confirmation that the Mansur clan has dirty hands in drug trafficking, money laundering and worse, look at their connections to terrorism, such as with Hezbollah:

    (...) According to El Espectador, Mohamed Ali Farhad has been linked to a money laundering investigation that involved the Aruba-based Mansur clan of Eric and Alexander Mansur, who controlled cigarette smuggling in the 1990s through the Mansur Free Zone Trading Company N.V., with its main offices in the Netherlands Antilles. 120 The Mansurs inherited a smuggling and drug trafficking empire established in the islands by the Cosa Nostra's Cuntrera-Caruana clan, when it began to work in Venezuela with Cali Cartel organizations.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: vms on June 05, 2008, 11:17:55 PM
Ernesto Arambatzis

Nicola Siervo wants an affluent, New York style party populated by models, photographers and other members of the modeling industry for his Monday and Friday night parties at the Metro Kitchen and Bar in the Astor. Who do you hire to promote the party? Answer: someone who has experience in both the nightlife and production arenas: Ernesto Arambatzis.

Ernesto started his career under the wings of Chris Paciello, Ingrid Casareas, and Gerry Kelly, working as the “fashion director” for Bar Room and Shadow Lounge. Then he took a break and became a men’s model booker for Ford Model’s “new faces” section. 

Well, break’s over. Besides the Monday and Friday gig at Metro, he also promotes the already popular Sky Bar at the Shore Club on Saturdays and the newly opened restro-lounge Sabor on Thursdays. He also plans to promote the Pure Lounge above Joia—once its completed that is.

“I love the whole restaurant and lounge thing,” he says. “I have free dinners almost every night.”
http://www.miamisunpost.com/archives/2003/01-23-03/firststoryfrontpage.htm

********************

Unmade Man
Chris Paciello owned two of Miami's hottest clubs and hung out with Ingrid Casares, Jennifer Lopez, and Madonna. A murder charge scattered his A-list pals -- but his gangster vibe is part of what drew them in the first place.

By Robert Kolker & Ethan Brown Published Apr 10, 2000

<snipped>

On December 1, as the culmination of an organized-crime investigation that stretched back at least to 1997, Chris Paciello surrendered to a U.S. Marshal a week after being indicted for a 1993 murder in Staten Island. Since then, prosecutors have claimed in court -- but not yet formally charged -- that Paciello burned down his first Miami club for the insurance money, permitted drug-dealing at Liquid, and tried to intimidate and sabotage three of his competitors. (New York has also learned that he still employs Robert Gordon, described during Limelight owner Peter Gatien's drug trial as a major ecstasy dealer in the early nineties.)

Federal prosecutor James Walden has said in court that a Florida Department of Law Enforcement investigation into the clubs' finances revealed circumstantial evidence of money laundering -- reported profits that are grossly out of proportion with inventory purchases. And though Paciello told a friend last fall that the rumors about his mob connections were spread by people who were "f***ing jealous," his co-defendants in the indictment are all accused of having connections to the Bonanno crime family. The road to trial promises to be bumpy: Just last week, Walden revealed that security guards found marijuana and a partially empty box of .40 caliber bullets hidden in the Staten Island house where Paciello is, by court order, supposed to be monitored 24 hours a day.
http://nymag.com/nymetro/news/crimelaw/features/2758/

********************

Goon Over Miami, Part 3
If Chris Paciello returns to South Beach, he'll find his empire in shambles and local cops hungry to arrest him


By Tristram Korten
Published on March 30, 2000

Article mentions marketing manager Troy Parsons.
http://www.miaminewtimes.com/2000-03-30/news/goon-over-miami-part-3

********************

Ocean DriveMagazine
In association with Gerry Kelly and Noah Lazes Presents:
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The New Wednesday Night@Vivid
Hosted by Troy Parsons & Ernesto Arambatzis
Wednesday June 7th 2000 10PM
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RSVP For Complimentary <A HREF="http://www.clubplanet.com/guestlists/" TARGET="_blank">Guest List</A> 305.695.9299
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http://bbs.clubplanet.com/miami/3252-vivid-nightclub.html


Bar Room Owner Stays Behind Bars
http://www.ganglandnews.com/column157.htm

Club Owner Pleads Guilty in Mob Murder Case
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9806E5DF133FF937A25753C1A9669C8B63

http://blogs.herald.com/scene_in_the_tropics/miami_vice/index.html


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on June 05, 2008, 11:19:17 PM
come to think of it......he really fouled the air for all nearby-on that plane

Are you talking about Henry T. Nicholas III, Dirty Hand, the hidden card?????  (on that plane, literally had me thinking of the man on the MB plane)

Hi 2NJSons...Now I will never sleep! I was going to reread in the morning and respond!

Had forgotten all about that guy! I wonder where he was from and what happened to him!!!

I looked him up....he's from CA....he's still a billionaire, as far as I can tell.. ::MonkeyWink:: ::MonkeyConfused:: ::MonkeyTongue:: ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on June 06, 2008, 12:45:35 AM
come to think of it......he really fouled the air for all nearby-on that plane

Are you talking about Henry T. Nicholas III, Dirty Hand, the hidden card?????  (on that plane, literally had me thinking of the man on the MB plane)

Hi 2NJSons...Now I will never sleep! I was going to reread in the morning and respond!

Had forgotten all about that guy! I wonder where he was from and what happened to him!!!

I looked him up....he's from CA....he's still a billionaire, as far as I can tell.. ::MonkeyWink:: ::MonkeyConfused:: ::MonkeyTongue:: ::MonkeyHaHa::

oops, Mum....I was talking about Nicholas...not necessarily the man on the MB plane....but then, COLOMBO may have been speaking of another 'plane'....that's the rub...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 06, 2008, 06:01:20 AM
come to think of it......he really fouled the air for all nearby-on that plane

Are you talking about Henry T. Nicholas III, Dirty Hand, the hidden card?????  (on that plane, literally had me thinking of the man on the MB plane)

Hi 2NJSons...Now I will never sleep! I was going to reread in the morning and respond!

Had forgotten all about that guy! I wonder where he was from and what happened to him!!!

I looked him up....he's from CA....he's still a billionaire, as far as I can tell.. ::MonkeyWink:: ::MonkeyConfused:: ::MonkeyTongue:: ::MonkeyHaHa::

oops, Mum....I was talking about Nicholas...not necessarily the man on the MB plane....but then, COLOMBO may have been speaking of another 'plane'....that's the rub...

Good Morning!...It is going to take me all day just to get through these 2 pages! Hang on...all day to decipher COLUMBO'S posts!

And then the man from the plane. IIRC he sat next to Natalee on the way down and seems they couldn't locate him afterwards?

Vms ... ::MonkeyEek::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Rob on June 06, 2008, 08:08:19 AM
Johan - these are Jossy's two houses in Doral Florida
(http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p149/Morgan2112_2006/JOSSYMANSUR6.jpg)

notice the golf course. I think this is the Doral Golf Course and part of the PGA tour.

I remember that Simian says he has a handicap of twelve (12) - that means he shoots about 84 on a regular basis. He's a decent golfer.

California light house and Tierra Del Sol
(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n216/ja1me84/Aruba%20Ariba/DSCF0537.jpg)

Carpe's bucket
(http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g130/arubapictures1/dgfgd.png)

and then there are these - from Carpe -
(http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g130/arubapictures1/uuii.png)

cops at the Tierra Del Sol as filmed in Aru-Bay video
(http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g130/arubapictures1/gfgfgf.png)







Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: johan555 on June 06, 2008, 08:16:13 AM
Oh that is interesting Rob !

"I remember that Simian says he has a handicap of twelve (12) - that means he shoots about 84 on a regular basis. He's a decent golfer."

do you have the S&S  IP's  ?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Rob on June 06, 2008, 08:30:24 AM
do you have the S&S  IP's  ?


posters aren't supposed to have that type of info.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 06, 2008, 08:35:35 AM
I posted these in the other thread…hints on Shango and Simian.

Rob…are we going to give Gabe a hard time today , since we know he was in cahoots with Tamara Waldron as early as June 5th.?  Maybe some might like to see where he lives…LOL… Maybe I should check the phone book...what is he going to do...call LE...the FBI...paybacks are sweet!!!!

Reply #1924 on: May 31, 2008, 08:52:46 AM »Mum   
 
Simian hints – added to Blonde’s post from another thread, Thanks Blonde, hoping we can nail down who Armin was getting his info from.

Please feel free to add and edit…

« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2008, 04:52:21 PM »Blonde    
 
Simian hints
I am from Aruba
I have taken a tour of the facility
So have everybody in my gradutating class at Colegio Arubano who wanted to participate.

I am from a European family that migrated in the late 1700’s.
 
 Has a friend who is a owner of a restaurant The comments I posted was from a restaurant owner friend of mine.
 I have been to C&C
Have taken girls there myself, but in cars

.
PS it is 149. Ivy cualified The Simian has an IQ of 149 as measured by Gringos
The Simian belongs to an Aruban society much like “Skull & Bones” -The origin of the Skull & Bones Society, once known as The Brotherhood of Death, in the U.S. begins at Yale when a group of men established an organization for the purpose of drug smuggling.
The Simian doesn’t make predictions. Only gives the group information ahead of time he only reports ahead of time. The clues were solely to avoid implicating sources
The man on the inside will call soon
Joran and The Kalpoes are at the Main Police Office right now
Fxxx the poetry. The Simian is a frenchman. Blue blood if you should know. Today anyone can be called a blue blood if he or she is of noble birth, a member of hight society, and so on.
Knows Shango, knows Shock me, knows Checkme
Th Simian’s umbilical is buried close to the heart of the island
The Simian has a handicap of 12
We smoke Nederweed. Genetically enigineered
I am American too. Just a South American
The real Simian would never write like that
"Crack a book sometime........"
That is the information in the circles and in the press in Aruba
Ik ben rustig hoor, maar sommige dingen moeten gewoon gezegd worden –languages?Understands the law
Double posts
Posted from Aruba
Posted under other nics

My hints to Shango…Simian posts below may give us some insight as to Shango is? Again, please feel free to add and edit!

Posted from Florida
Posted under other nics
Disguised himself as a woman at times
Had a bone to pick

Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
Shango cannot understand PAPIAMENTO, otheriwse he would have already taken notice that he has been pinged.
If you really know more, you should spent the 8 days in jail eating peanut butter on stale bread with some cold tea. Just like Steve Croes

Shango, whenever you think you can get on the inside of the real Aruban society give me a sign, you probably were picking up the trash.
You have been pinged. Bai drumi! Ta laat caba.
Posted Jun 28, 2:53 AM







Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: johan555 on June 06, 2008, 08:42:03 AM
I know but who told you that this  is the shango  area ?
Iv heard shango lives in the usa and simmian in Aruba


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Rob on June 06, 2008, 08:45:16 AM
Knows Shango, knows Shock me, knows Checkme

Good Morning Mum, in my opinion this is part of the key.

He tells us he knows these posters, but maybe not intimately, knows their real identities.

Check me - 'roobagoogle translation - 'I get the marching orders, and disperse it' - so check with me first.

We could assume that Shango knows Check me, but we can not say for 100% because he does say that - at east that I'm aware.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Rob on June 06, 2008, 08:46:12 AM
I know but who told you that this  is the shango  area ?
Iv heard shango lives in the usa and simmian in Aruba

Grande says so.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 06, 2008, 08:54:03 AM
Knows Shango, knows Shock me, knows Checkme

Good Morning Mum, in my opinion this is part of the key.

He tells us he knows these posters, but maybe not intimately, knows their real identities.

Check me - 'roobagoogle translation - 'I get the marching orders, and disperse it' - so check with me first.

We could assume that Shango knows Check me, but we can not say for 100% because he does say that - at east that I'm aware.


Morning Rob...Shockthemonkey posting from Jacksonville IIRC...always uses 'we' as if in Aruba and a part of everything...morphed from another poster...I think some-one was feeding Shock posts!
Check me...your translation is interesting...sounds like feeding the press...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 06, 2008, 08:58:06 AM
Knows Shango, knows Shock me, knows Checkme

Good Morning Mum, in my opinion this is part of the key.

He tells us he knows these posters, but maybe not intimately, knows their real identities.

Check me - 'roobagoogle translation - 'I get the marching orders, and disperse it' - so check with me first.

We could assume that Shango knows Check me, but we can not say for 100% because he does say that - at east that I'm aware.


I am going to think a little more on your Check me...I am not familiar enough with the posts! ALE, Government or Press, anything else!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 06, 2008, 09:48:53 AM
Shango and Dirty Hand can not be the same person? 
Shango posted at what times?
Simian knew Shango and the others.
Simian was on Aruba and claims that he could get Shango put in prison?
Now think about that...

Good Morning monkeys.  ::MonkeyCool::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 06, 2008, 09:50:08 AM
Oh I forgot the most important part.....

CONTEXT!!!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 06, 2008, 10:06:50 AM
I know but who told you that this  is the shango  area ?
Iv heard shango lives in the usa and simmian in Aruba

Grande says so.


Rob......I put that around Highland Lakes. Remember NOT a mappie! Do you have any idea how Grande came to his conclusion? Have gone back and read some of posts, thought it might be quicker to ask you first!...TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Rob on June 06, 2008, 11:24:41 AM
I know but who told you that this  is the shango  area ?
Iv heard shango lives in the usa and simmian in Aruba

Grande says so.


Rob......I put that around Highland Lakes. Remember NOT a mappie! Do you have any idea how Grande came to his conclusion? Have gone back and read some of posts, thought it might be quicker to ask you first!...TIA

Mum, I guess he got it from the site meter when Shango and Simian were posting on the FP. When I get my laptop back - I'll send him and email and ask how he knew.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 06, 2008, 11:36:36 AM
Ernesto Arambatzis

Nicola Siervo wants an affluent, New York style party populated by models, photographers and other members of the modeling industry for his Monday and Friday night parties at the Metro Kitchen and Bar in the Astor. Who do you hire to promote the party? Answer: someone who has experience in both the nightlife and production arenas: Ernesto Arambatzis.

Ernesto started his career under the wings of Chris Paciello, Ingrid Casareas, and Gerry Kelly, working as the “fashion director” for Bar Room and Shadow Lounge. Then he took a break and became a men’s model booker for Ford Model’s “new faces” section. 

Well, break’s over. Besides the Monday and Friday gig at Metro, he also promotes the already popular Sky Bar at the Shore Club on Saturdays and the newly opened restro-lounge Sabor on Thursdays. He also plans to promote the Pure Lounge above Joia—once its completed that is.

“I love the whole restaurant and lounge thing,” he says. “I have free dinners almost every night.”
http://www.miamisunpost.com/archives/2003/01-23-03/firststoryfrontpage.htm

********************

Unmade Man
Chris Paciello owned two of Miami's hottest clubs and hung out with Ingrid Casares, Jennifer Lopez, and Madonna. A murder charge scattered his A-list pals -- but his gangster vibe is part of what drew them in the first place.

By Robert Kolker & Ethan Brown Published Apr 10, 2000

<snipped>

On December 1, as the culmination of an organized-crime investigation that stretched back at least to 1997, Chris Paciello surrendered to a U.S. Marshal a week after being indicted for a 1993 murder in Staten Island. Since then, prosecutors have claimed in court -- but not yet formally charged -- that Paciello burned down his first Miami club for the insurance money, permitted drug-dealing at Liquid, and tried to intimidate and sabotage three of his competitors. (New York has also learned that he still employs Robert Gordon, described during Limelight owner Peter Gatien's drug trial as a major ecstasy dealer in the early nineties.)

Federal prosecutor James Walden has said in court that a Florida Department of Law Enforcement investigation into the clubs' finances revealed circumstantial evidence of money laundering -- reported profits that are grossly out of proportion with inventory purchases. And though Paciello told a friend last fall that the rumors about his mob connections were spread by people who were "f***ing jealous," his co-defendants in the indictment are all accused of having connections to the Bonanno crime family. The road to trial promises to be bumpy: Just last week, Walden revealed that security guards found marijuana and a partially empty box of .40 caliber bullets hidden in the Staten Island house where Paciello is, by court order, supposed to be monitored 24 hours a day.
http://nymag.com/nymetro/news/crimelaw/features/2758/

********************

Goon Over Miami, Part 3
If Chris Paciello returns to South Beach, he'll find his empire in shambles and local cops hungry to arrest him


By Tristram Korten
Published on March 30, 2000

Article mentions marketing manager Troy Parsons.
http://www.miaminewtimes.com/2000-03-30/news/goon-over-miami-part-3

********************

Ocean DriveMagazine
In association with Gerry Kelly and Noah Lazes Presents:
ELEVATE
The New Wednesday Night@Vivid
Hosted by Troy Parsons & Ernesto Arambatzis
Wednesday June 7th 2000 10PM
Complimentary Bar 10-11pm
RSVP For Complimentary <A HREF="http://www.clubplanet.com/guestlists/" TARGET="_blank">Guest List</A> 305.695.9299
Vivid
743 Washington Avenue
Miami Beach, FL 33139
VIP Table Reservations 305.695.9033 www.vividnightclub.com
http://bbs.clubplanet.com/miami/3252-vivid-nightclub.html


Bar Room Owner Stays Behind Bars
http://www.ganglandnews.com/column157.htm

Club Owner Pleads Guilty in Mob Murder Case
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9806E5DF133FF937A25753C1A9669C8B63

http://blogs.herald.com/scene_in_the_tropics/miami_vice/index.html

Thanks for this info...what do we know about the whereabouts of this Chris guy now?  Also, wondering how Ernesto came to be in Miami?  Do they have places in Venezuela that would have given him the opportunity to expand a business or was it connections that brought him here? 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Rob on June 06, 2008, 11:41:15 AM
not yet sure if his is our girl... still looking

TAMARA WALDRON
1505 NW 91ST AVE
CORAL SPRINGS, FL 33071
(954) 752-4612


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Rob on June 06, 2008, 11:44:23 AM
not yet sure if his is our girl... still looking

TAMARA WALDRON
1505 NW 91ST AVE
CORAL SPRINGS, FL 33071
(954) 752-4612

slightly north of Fort Lauderdale. I'll add this to the google earth map later and if we can find out more about this person.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Rob on June 06, 2008, 11:47:17 AM
not yet sure if his is our girl... still looking

TAMARA WALDRON
1505 NW 91ST AVE
CORAL SPRINGS, FL 33071
(954) 752-4612

slightly north of Fort Lauderdale. I'll add this to the google earth map later and if we can find out more about this person.

I see there appears to be 17 sex offenders in the area (that doesn't really matter in this instance, but just mentioning it) and this person appears to be about 44 years old.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: vms on June 06, 2008, 12:02:33 PM
Ernesto Arambatzis

Nicola Siervo wants an affluent, New York style party populated by models, photographers and other members of the modeling industry for his Monday and Friday night parties at the Metro Kitchen and Bar in the Astor. Who do you hire to promote the party? Answer: someone who has experience in both the nightlife and production arenas: Ernesto Arambatzis.

Ernesto started his career under the wings of Chris Paciello, Ingrid Casareas, and Gerry Kelly, working as the “fashion director” for Bar Room and Shadow Lounge. Then he took a break and became a men’s model booker for Ford Model’s “new faces” section. 

Well, break’s over. Besides the Monday and Friday gig at Metro, he also promotes the already popular Sky Bar at the Shore Club on Saturdays and the newly opened restro-lounge Sabor on Thursdays. He also plans to promote the Pure Lounge above Joia—once its completed that is.

“I love the whole restaurant and lounge thing,” he says. “I have free dinners almost every night.”
http://www.miamisunpost.com/archives/2003/01-23-03/firststoryfrontpage.htm

********************

Unmade Man
Chris Paciello owned two of Miami's hottest clubs and hung out with Ingrid Casares, Jennifer Lopez, and Madonna. A murder charge scattered his A-list pals -- but his gangster vibe is part of what drew them in the first place.

By Robert Kolker & Ethan Brown Published Apr 10, 2000

<snipped>

On December 1, as the culmination of an organized-crime investigation that stretched back at least to 1997, Chris Paciello surrendered to a U.S. Marshal a week after being indicted for a 1993 murder in Staten Island. Since then, prosecutors have claimed in court -- but not yet formally charged -- that Paciello burned down his first Miami club for the insurance money, permitted drug-dealing at Liquid, and tried to intimidate and sabotage three of his competitors. (New York has also learned that he still employs Robert Gordon, described during Limelight owner Peter Gatien's drug trial as a major ecstasy dealer in the early nineties.)

Federal prosecutor James Walden has said in court that a Florida Department of Law Enforcement investigation into the clubs' finances revealed circumstantial evidence of money laundering -- reported profits that are grossly out of proportion with inventory purchases. And though Paciello told a friend last fall that the rumors about his mob connections were spread by people who were "f***ing jealous," his co-defendants in the indictment are all accused of having connections to the Bonanno crime family. The road to trial promises to be bumpy: Just last week, Walden revealed that security guards found marijuana and a partially empty box of .40 caliber bullets hidden in the Staten Island house where Paciello is, by court order, supposed to be monitored 24 hours a day.
http://nymag.com/nymetro/news/crimelaw/features/2758/

********************

Goon Over Miami, Part 3
If Chris Paciello returns to South Beach, he'll find his empire in shambles and local cops hungry to arrest him


By Tristram Korten
Published on March 30, 2000

Article mentions marketing manager Troy Parsons.
http://www.miaminewtimes.com/2000-03-30/news/goon-over-miami-part-3

********************

Ocean DriveMagazine
In association with Gerry Kelly and Noah Lazes Presents:
ELEVATE
The New Wednesday Night@Vivid
Hosted by Troy Parsons & Ernesto Arambatzis
Wednesday June 7th 2000 10PM
Complimentary Bar 10-11pm
RSVP For Complimentary <A HREF="http://www.clubplanet.com/guestlists/" TARGET="_blank">Guest List</A> 305.695.9299
Vivid
743 Washington Avenue
Miami Beach, FL 33139
VIP Table Reservations 305.695.9033 www.vividnightclub.com
http://bbs.clubplanet.com/miami/3252-vivid-nightclub.html


Bar Room Owner Stays Behind Bars
http://www.ganglandnews.com/column157.htm

Club Owner Pleads Guilty in Mob Murder Case
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9806E5DF133FF937A25753C1A9669C8B63

http://blogs.herald.com/scene_in_the_tropics/miami_vice/index.html

Ingrid Casares partner of Chris Paciello.



Three’s Company

Three South Beach Industry Veterans Team Up to Form Company

“Everyone is hitting on us and we love it.” – Tommy Pooch

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a398/vms58/IngridCasares.jpg)
Alan Roth, Ingrid Casares and Tommy Pooch meld their South Beach promoting talents to form TAI. Photo by Mitchell Zachs.

Link (http://www.mamma.com/PicInfo?query=TOMMY+POOCH&qtype=48&PAGE_URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.miamisunpost.com%2Farchives%2F2004%2F10-07-04%2Fthirteenthstoryfrontpage.htm&IMAGE_URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.miamisunpost.com%2Farchives%2F2004%2F10-07-04%2FIMAGE%2Fmain6.jpg&WIDTH=200&HEIGHT=123&FILESIZE=24&COLORS=15984&ANIM=0&COLOR=1&THUMB_URL=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.picsearch.com%2Fis%3FcUtoeIk137_g1ASWGgX_ezmDkwqh-wcBx8c2eclzKSQ&THUMB_WIDTH=128&THUMB_HEIGHT=78&start=)



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: hotping on June 06, 2008, 12:03:13 PM
not yet sure if his is our girl... still looking

TAMARA WALDRON
1505 NW 91ST AVE
CORAL SPRINGS, FL 33071
(954) 752-4612

slightly north of Fort Lauderdale. I'll add this to the google earth map later and if we can find out more about this person.

I see there appears to be 17 sex offenders in the area (that doesn't really matter in this instance, but just mentioning it) and this person appears to be about 44 years old.
Date of Birth for this one is May 17 1971 37 yrs old I will look and see what else I can find maybe previous addresses and possible relatives BRB


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: vms on June 06, 2008, 12:05:42 PM
not yet sure if his is our girl... still looking

TAMARA WALDRON
1505 NW 91ST AVE
CORAL SPRINGS, FL 33071
(954) 752-4612

Tamara Waldron-Roga now, I believe...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Rob on June 06, 2008, 12:15:41 PM
STA. CRUZ -- Nos ta hopi
orguyozo di por anuncia cu
Shiloh Albertsz di Imelda
Kleuterschool a wordo
scogi pa representa Aruba
na e Caribbean Children’s
Environmental
Poster
Competition, cu a tuma
lugar na Januari 2007,
según Sra. Tamara Roga-
Waldron Coordinadora di
e programa pa Ministerio
di Turismo & Transporte.
Ta asina cu studiantenan di
Aruba a ricibi un invitacion
di parti di Florida Caribbean
Cruise Association via
nos oficina pa participa
den e Foundation for the
Caribbean
Children’s
Environmental
Poster
Competition, cu lo tuma
lugar na Januari 2007.
Nos a informa Directora
di
Onderwijs
Zaken,
Sra. Oduber, y el’a percura
cu tur school na Aruba
a haya e información
necesario pa por a participa.
E aña aki e competencia su
meta tabatata pa promove
y stimula e concientizacion
di medio ambiente entre
studiantenan
Caríbense
door di educa e generacion
di hobennan aki riba e
importancia di proteccion
di nos medio ambiente.
Den e división di “junior”
pa muchanan di 12 aña y
menos, Shiloh Albertsz a
yega te na final y a ricibi un
premio di finalista for di Sra.
Tamara
Roga-Waldron.

Nos mester remarka cu
ambos studiante a entrega
un trabao excepcional y no a
keda ningun duda ariba ken
mester representa nos den
e competencia na Merca.
E ganadornan a wordo
scogi na Merca door
di FCCA su comité di
selección cu a determina
e prome, di dos y e di tres
lugar den ambos categoría
di e posternan ricibi for
di cada pais participante.
Riba
e
potretnan
adhunto
por
aprecia
Sra. Waldon, Shiloh, y
Sra. Pablo, Directora di
Imelda
Kleuterschool

cached page
http://tinyurl.com/6z6b3o

I think this might be her - it's from the original page
(http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p149/Morgan2112_2006/ScreenHunter_02Jun061205.gif)

(http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p149/Morgan2112_2006/ScreenHunter_03Jun061209.gif)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Rob on June 06, 2008, 12:21:41 PM
vms, just wondering of Waldron has a connection to FIU ???


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 06, 2008, 12:24:31 PM
not yet sure if his is our girl... still looking

TAMARA WALDRON
1505 NW 91ST AVE
CORAL SPRINGS, FL 33071
(954) 752-4612

Tamara Waldron-Roga now, I believe...


I have googled Coral Springs in the last week...no clue who I was looking at now!!!

Thanks for the info vms, Hotping and Rob! Sorry if I forgot anyone...catching up!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Rob on June 06, 2008, 12:24:45 PM
Lala'smom, Paciello is not in the federal inmate locator...odd since it seems he committed federal crimes.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Rob on June 06, 2008, 12:34:11 PM
face book

http://www.facebook.com/people/Tamara_Waldron-Roga/657890874


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 06, 2008, 12:34:44 PM
This looks like her..the other one doesn't have a Coral Springs address!

Tamara M Oyer  Tamara Waldron   37   St James City, FL Coral Springs, FL Cape Coral, FL Saint Louis, MO Honeoye Falls, NY Saint James City, FL


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Rob on June 06, 2008, 12:37:03 PM
face book

http://www.facebook.com/people/Tamara_Waldron-Roga/657890874

I notice she is friends with Paula Ochoa who lists her friends as Annalisa Gesterkamp and Nelson Oduber...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: vms on June 06, 2008, 12:46:03 PM
vms, just wondering of Waldron has a connection to FIU ???

Ohhhhhhh. Yeah, I wonder...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 06, 2008, 12:47:28 PM
face book

http://www.facebook.com/people/Tamara_Waldron-Roga/657890874

I notice she is friends with Paula Ochoa who lists her friends as Annalisa Gesterkamp and Nelson Oduber...

I saw that Rob...Nelson says he is in Florida...the Ochua name is familiar, can't remember why! Is it similar or the same as a drug bust guy?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Rob on June 06, 2008, 12:50:06 PM
face book

http://www.facebook.com/people/Tamara_Waldron-Roga/657890874

I notice she is friends with Paula Ochoa who lists her friends as Annalisa Gesterkamp and Nelson Oduber...

I saw that Rob...Nelson says he is in Florida...the Ochua name is familiar, can't remember why! Is it similar or the same as a drug bust guy?

that is the guy that was busted with Luis Mansur that ******* has been following closely and posting about from Awe Mainta and Sol Pueblo


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 06, 2008, 12:51:21 PM
Lala's...this puts Ernesto in Florida in 1994, and I have seen it posted he graduated that year. I am sure I went to the website and am looking for it now! Otherwise I will do the math!!!

http://www.miaminewtimes.com/2004-02-26/news/rope-tricks/


Published on February 26, 2004

But you clearly don't have the bod, the patter, or the attitude of Karen and her micro-mini'd ilk. All the usual suspects from the South Beach scene agree that most people living the high life without paying for it are the beautiful, traffickers in the beautiful, celebrities, or people from the nightlife, fashion, or music industries. "You're either well connected, or you wait in line and pay your money," says Ernesto Arambatzis, a promoter of events at the Delano and Mynt, who entered clubland a decade ago through the modeling pipeline.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 06, 2008, 12:56:34 PM
Lala's...this puts Ernesto in Florida in 1994, and I have seen it posted he graduated that year. I am sure I went to the website and am looking for it now! Otherwise I will do the math!!!

http://www.miaminewtimes.com/2004-02-26/news/rope-tricks/


Published on February 26, 2004

But you clearly don't have the bod, the patter, or the attitude of Karen and her micro-mini'd ilk. All the usual suspects from the South Beach scene agree that most people living the high life without paying for it are the beautiful, traffickers in the beautiful, celebrities, or people from the nightlife, fashion, or music industries. "You're either well connected, or you wait in line and pay your money," says Ernesto Arambatzis, a promoter of events at the Delano and Mynt, who entered clubland a decade ago through the modeling pipeline.

Thanks Kermit...Lala's doesn't look like a college??? Will take a closer look! Says Prep school and shows a young kid!

___________________________________________________________-
Ernesto       Arambatzis             1994       Porlamar       NE       Venezuela
http://tinyurl.com/hzjel





Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: vms on June 06, 2008, 01:00:25 PM
Lala'smom, Paciello is not in the federal inmate locator...odd since it seems he committed federal crimes.

Real Name: Christian Ludwigsen

I can't remember if I read where he served time. I know I read he was expected to be in witness protection upon release but he isn't.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2007/0710071paciello1.html


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 06, 2008, 01:00:53 PM
face book

http://www.facebook.com/people/Tamara_Waldron-Roga/657890874

I notice she is friends with Paula Ochoa who lists her friends as Annalisa Gesterkamp and Nelson Oduber...

I saw that Rob...Nelson says he is in Florida...the Ochua name is familiar, can't remember why! Is it similar or the same as a drug bust guy?

that is the guy that was busted with Luis Mansur that ******* has been following closely and posting about from Awe Mainta and Sol Pueblo


Thanks...that is what I thought!  Did you see that the Brown guy was actually Bruin! I think he was one of the rat-ees! May have been the bank guy!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 06, 2008, 01:08:06 PM
Lala'smom, Paciello is not in the federal inmate locator...odd since it seems he committed federal crimes.

Real Name: Christian Ludwigsen

I can't remember if I read where he served time. I know I read he was expected to be in witness protection upon release but he isn't.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2007/0710071paciello1.html

Odd...then that he is still alive...mob and all!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: vms on June 06, 2008, 01:13:51 PM
Lala'smom, Paciello is not in the federal inmate locator...odd since it seems he committed federal crimes.

Real Name: Christian Ludwigsen

I can't remember if I read where he served time. I know I read he was expected to be in witness protection upon release but he isn't.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2007/0710071paciello1.html

Odd...then that he is still alive...mob and all!

This one is interesting, Mum.
http://www.maximonline.com/articles/index.aspx?a_id=3339

Ernesto must be proud of starting his career under Paciello's guidance?
No one I know would flaunt that.  :lol:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 06, 2008, 01:19:16 PM
Lala'smom, Paciello is not in the federal inmate locator...odd since it seems he committed federal crimes.

Real Name: Christian Ludwigsen

I can't remember if I read where he served time. I know I read he was expected to be in witness protection upon release but he isn't.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2007/0710071paciello1.html

Odd...then that he is still alive...mob and all!

This one is interesting, Mum.
http://www.maximonline.com/articles/index.aspx?a_id=3339

Ernesto must be proud of starting his career under Paciello's guidance?
No one I know would flaunt that.  :lol:


So is this.... ::MonkeyShocked::

Welcome to Bradenton Preparatory Academy
"Home of the Patriots"
Bradenton Preparatory Academy is an accredited, private, co-educational college preparatory school for grades K through 12th in Bradenton, Florida. At Bradenton Preparatory Academy, we are extremely proud of our extraordinary college placement record, national and international. For more information, please take a few minutes and explore our website.

Nothing Succeeds Like Success!
-Dr. Murray Gerber

See I will have a lot to read when I get back!!!!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: hotping on June 06, 2008, 01:35:32 PM
I have had a minor emergency here at home but I will do some more research on Tamara as soon as I can......If needed!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 06, 2008, 01:45:41 PM
I have had a minor emergency here at home but I will do some more research on Tamara as soon as I can......If needed!

Hope everything is okay.  When you get a chance email me...cindoal@yahoo.com

I have a dumb question that I don't want to ask on here...not related to this stuff. TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 06, 2008, 01:50:52 PM
I messed up that post...my email is

cindoal@yahoo.com.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 06, 2008, 01:54:21 PM
I have had a minor emergency here at home but I will do some more research on Tamara as soon as I can......If needed!


Hope everything is OK Hotping, and it is only minor!!!

Yes! You are needed...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 06, 2008, 02:10:43 PM
Lala'smom, Paciello is not in the federal inmate locator...odd since it seems he committed federal crimes.

Real Name: Christian Ludwigsen

I can't remember if I read where he served time. I know I read he was expected to be in witness protection upon release but he isn't.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2007/0710071paciello1.html

Odd...then that he is still alive...mob and all!

This one is interesting, Mum.
http://www.maximonline.com/articles/index.aspx?a_id=3339

Ernesto must be proud of starting his career under Paciello's guidance?
No one I know would flaunt that.  :lol:


So is this.... ::MonkeyShocked::

Welcome to Bradenton Preparatory Academy
"Home of the Patriots"
Bradenton Preparatory Academy is an accredited, private, co-educational college preparatory school for grades K through 12th in Bradenton, Florida. At Bradenton Preparatory Academy, we are extremely proud of our extraordinary college placement record, national and international. For more information, please take a few minutes and explore our website.

Nothing Succeeds Like Success!
-Dr. Murray Gerber

See I will have a lot to read when I get back!!!!


Posting the link...all I can find out is that there are schools internationally, but I can't find any info on them! So Ernesto was around 18 in 1994...did the school help him get here?

http://www.bradentonacademy.com/index.jsp?rn=8905175




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Blonde on June 06, 2008, 02:49:11 PM
Thanks for the info vms


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on June 06, 2008, 04:00:48 PM

The elder had one or two cards up his sleeve
They have been played and lost
Will one of the cards sing

The fallen judge and the singing card are of the same hand, but it is dangerous for the Arawaks to play it, because everyone would hear, including the cowboys

The Arawaks may not need to play the singing card
The cowboys won’t hear the music and the teepees will be safe

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:53 pm
"Jossy" is the key
He walks with the elders (Newspaper publisher, reporter, political advisor)
He walks in all houses (newspapers are read by and influence all, rich and poor)
And he walked with the fallen elder (Croes -- because of his economic and political position had to have known him)
he was the hidden card that was played
now if he sings, babylon will fall on the arawak nation (If he publishes what he knows the world, as Aruba knows it will end)


Remember, the current economic situation in Aruba effects his pocketbook too...

Politically his hands may be tied because he still lacks the clout in their parliament to protect his interests if hell is unleashed in the form of public disclosure of all the corruption and cover-up.  If you are an insider like Shango aludes to be you might feel that the 4th estate really does have "Dirty Hands".

The population of Aruba and island size is way to small ... Everyone knows everyone else and has something on everyone else -- but few are in the position to really report the truth to the masses and the world...

Yes, if Jossy were to sing Aruba would be shut down...IMHO



I dunno about any of that fourth estate stuff or whatever......but DirtyHand's power rests with his ability to break the alibi

seems there's some confusion about the two cards played by PVDS....one is DirtyHand, who, per Shango, is not a suspect.......so it is not a suspect that is being kept hidden-rather, somebody who can topple the alibi story of the "partygoers" (the simple party at his house)

are the children of the elders there? or did they flee to babylon? DirtyHand (a babylonian) know-this is his power (sounds like they were at babylon)......but then where was NH? who needed an alibi?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Pita on June 06, 2008, 04:21:49 PM
Rush & Molloy


He's having a time - after doing time
Monday, July 16th 2007, 4:00 AM
       
(http://www.nydailynews.com/img/2007/07/16/amd_chrispaciello.jpg)

Chris Paciello

Former mobbed-up club-promoter Chris Paciello continues to rebuild his life in the fast lane.

The celeb-friendly Mafia figure is putting together restaurant deals in L.A. What's more, he and Victoria's Secret model Erin Naas are expecting a baby.

Never mind that Paciello served nine years for his roles in a $300,000 bank job and the murder of a 46-year-old Staten Island mother. The former Miami disco king has been hanging out with Brett Rattner, Kevin Connelly, Lindsay Lohan and Paris Hilton. He's also "back in contact" with former flame Madonna, a source tells us. "They saw each other about a month ago."

His criminal record prevents him from owning a liquor establishment, but "he's been investing in restaurants," according to a source, who didn't say where Paciello is getting the money.

The former playboy, 35, is also close to settling down with Naas, 24.

"Erin is three months' pregnant with his baby," says a source. "He did propose to her a while back, but she has put him off. Chris has really cleaned up his act. But she wants to know 100% that he knows what he's doing with his life."

Naas, who used to date rocker Tommy Lee, certainly is catnip to bad boys. A source close to the Maxim vixen confirms L.A. cops questioned her about a friendship with two ex-cons suspected in the burglary of "Girls Gone Wild" producer Joe Francis ' home in 2005. But Naas was never accused of any crime.

Paciello had been in a federal witness protection program after testifying against several Colombo family members. But apparently he's no longer afraid. "The guys he ratted out are in jail," says one former Staten Island associate. "Anyone could find him. But it seems like nobody cares now."

Having inspired the Nick Pileggi-scripted A&E TV movie "The Kings of South Beach," Paciello's story may also become a feature, "Un-Made Man," based on "Mob Over Miami," the exposé by former Daily News reporter Michele McPhee.

Mark Wahlberg is said to have turned down $10 million to play Paciello. Producer John Sherman says Paciello will earn zip from the project, adding: "I think it's creepy that all these stars are hanging out with him."

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://blogs.herald.com/scene_in_the_tropics/images/2007/07/10/0709_polaroid_beach_house.jpg&imgrefurl=http://blogs.herald.com/scene_in_the_tropics/2007/07/index.html&h=103&w=100&sz=13&hl=en&start=19&um=1&tbnid=q4_D3Ap8CxJoPM:&tbnh=83&tbnw=81&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dchris%2Bpaciello%2B2008%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26rlz%3D1T4GGIC_enUS209US212%26sa%3DN



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 06, 2008, 08:04:13 PM
Looking for Sharon!!  Email me, I need a favor, please...  cindoal@yahoo.com


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 06, 2008, 08:06:17 PM
Lala'smom, Paciello is not in the federal inmate locator...odd since it seems he committed federal crimes.

Wonder why not?  Do they just pick and choose who gets a listing there?  That is odd.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 06, 2008, 08:25:32 PM
Thanks to Rob, VMS, Pita, Hotping, Mum and anyone else I missed that supplied info today on Paciello....so I am assuming that Ernesto began his modeling career...if he was gay why did he get married...oh nevermind...so he was in the modeling scene before some of those on Aruba.  Wonder if Ronchi has connections to Paciello and Ernesto?  Does anyone remember the name of that modeling agency that Kawish was with?  Guido?  I am thinking out loud here...

Excellent work monkeys!!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: sirensong on June 06, 2008, 09:33:25 PM
Yes, excellent work!!  That Chris P guy sure didn't serve much time, did he?  I guess it was only a poor housewife he is responsible for murdering.  What does the 4th estate mean?  TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Pita on June 06, 2008, 10:11:07 PM
Thanks to Rob, VMS, Pita, Hotping, Mum and anyone else I missed that supplied info today on Paciello....so I am assuming that Ernesto began his modeling career...if he was gay why did he get married...oh nevermind...so he was in the modeling scene before some of those on Aruba.  Wonder if Ronchi has connections to Paciello and Ernesto?  Does anyone remember the name of that modeling agency that Kawish was with?  Guido?  I am thinking out loud here...

Excellent work monkeys!!

I think it was Knockout Model Agency.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Pita on June 06, 2008, 10:14:53 PM
KNOCK-OUT ORGANIZATION 
 
Business address CAYA G.F. (BETICO) CROES 168, ORANJESTAD OOST 
Legal form  SOLE OWNERSHIP 
Name of the company  KNOCK-OUT ORGANIZATION 
Date of commencement  8 DECEMBER 1989 
     
   
OWNERS/PARTNERS 
 
DE CUBA, RONALD OSWALD (JR); 
Residing in  ADRIAAN LACLE BLVD. 13, ORANJESTAD, ARUBA 
Born in  ARUBA on 9 FEBRUARY 1971 
Nationality  DUTCH 
Position  OWNER 
Effective  4 FEBRUARY 1993 
Authority  FULL 
   
OBJECTIVE(S) OF THE COMPANY 
 
"HET ORGANISEREN VAN JEUGDFEESTEN, CONCERTEN, MODE-SHOWS EN SCHOONHEIDSWESTRIJDEN" 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Pita on June 06, 2008, 10:19:24 PM
Aruban Designers Heat up the Beach with Cool Suits
Photography by Steve Keith
 
Local Aruban fashion designers Ronchi de Cuba and Heidi Munzenhoffer are making waves with their collection of originally designed swimsuits. Ronchi, a veteran to the Caribbean fashion design scene and owner of Knock Out Model Agency and clothing store TRASH BY RONCHI, launched his popular SOLO line of swimwear a few years back, while Heidi, a successful local model, just recently jumped into the pool to begin marketing her swimwear.

    Ronchi's SOLO swimwear line is based upon several standard styles and cuts—from practical one-pieces and sporty tankinis to suits with fashionable peekaboo cutouts and barely there bikinis. "I have found that different cuts and styles flatter different women. Over time, I have developed a foundation of popular styles that I try to stick with, and just change the fabrics from season to season," says the designer.

    Heidi custom designs and tailors her suits for each individual client, but has plans to develop and market her creations to the general public soon. The designer also runs couture shop Creations Aimee with her mother, Rosa. Heidi is currently working on a swimsuit calendar for 2004, combining both her talents as a designer and beauty as a model.

http://www.island-temptations.com/old/summer03/story4/


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: bleachedblack on June 06, 2008, 11:13:35 PM
Here Lalas :  http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2005/08/jossy_mansur_ta.html


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: vms on June 06, 2008, 11:50:22 PM
Rob,

Check this out:

Armin
http://www.facebook.com/friends/?id=503240047

Luisa Oduber?, Tamara, Ruben, Annalisa, as well as several other interesting friends...

I think you have to log in to see the list.
 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: hotping on June 07, 2008, 01:46:34 AM
Lala's...this puts Ernesto in Florida in 1994, and I have seen it posted he graduated that year. I am sure I went to the website and am looking for it now! Otherwise I will do the math!!!

http://www.miaminewtimes.com/2004-02-26/news/rope-tricks/


Published on February 26, 2004

But you clearly don't have the bod, the patter, or the attitude of Karen and her micro-mini'd ilk. All the usual suspects from the South Beach scene agree that most people living the high life without paying for it are the beautiful, traffickers in the beautiful, celebrities, or people from the nightlife, fashion, or music industries. "You're either well connected, or you wait in line and pay your money," says Ernesto Arambatzis, a promoter of events at the Delano and Mynt, who entered clubland a decade ago through the modeling pipeline.

Thanks Kermit...Lala's doesn't look like a college??? Will take a closer look! Says Prep school and shows a young kid!

___________________________________________________________-
Ernesto       Arambatzis             1994       Porlamar       NE       Venezuela
http://tinyurl.com/hzjel




Ernesto's original Fl Drivers license was issued 12/11/1995


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: hotping on June 07, 2008, 01:54:34 AM
PACIELLO,CHRISTIAN  DL Number
2025 BRICKELL AVE #1805 
City/State/ZIP Code
MIAMI ,01 33129 Race
W Type
CLASS E  FDLE County

none found
 
Gender
M Date of Birth
Jan 9 1970 Age
037 Height
600
Issue Type
 Address Changed Flag
 Name Changed Flag
 DOB Changed Flag
 
Sex Changed Flag
 Deceased Date
00000000 Attention
 Restriction 1

none found
 
Restriction 2

none found
 Restriction 3

none found
 Restriction 4

none found
 Restriction 5

none found
 
Issue Date
Sep 26 1996 Motorcycle
 Endorsement 1

none found
 Endorsement 2

none found
 
Endorsement 3

none found
 Endorsement 4

none found
 Endorsement 5

none found
 Expire Date
Jan 9 2003
Privacy Flag
T Original Issue Date
Sep 26 1996 Out of State Identifier
 




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: finngirl on June 07, 2008, 03:22:01 AM
... What does the 4th estate mean?  TIA

The term Fourth Estate refers to the press ... the term goes back at least to Thomas Carlyle in the first half of the 19th century ...

... Fourth Estate has referred to "the public press" since at least as far back as the early 1800s. More generally, it has also been used to refer to any group other than the clergy, nobility, or commons that wields political power ...

... Novelist Jeffrey Archer in his work The Fourth Estate made the observation: "In May 1789, Louis XVI summoned to Versailles a full meeting of the 'Estate General'. The First Estate consisted of three hundred clergy. The Second Estate, three hundred nobles. The Third Estate, six hundred commoners. Some years later, after the French Revolution, Edmund Burke, looking up at the Press Gallery of the House of Commons, said, 'Yonder sits the Fourth Estate, and they are more important than them all.'"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Estate



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Silverfox on June 07, 2008, 04:33:01 AM
... What does the 4th estate mean?  TIA

The term Fourth Estate refers to the press ... the term goes back at least to Thomas Carlyle in the first half of the 19th century ...

... Fourth Estate has referred to "the public press" since at least as far back as the early 1800s. More generally, it has also been used to refer to any group other than the clergy, nobility, or commons that wields political power ...

... Novelist Jeffrey Archer in his work The Fourth Estate made the observation: "In May 1789, Louis XVI summoned to Versailles a full meeting of the 'Estate General'. The First Estate consisted of three hundred clergy. The Second Estate, three hundred nobles. The Third Estate, six hundred commoners. Some years later, after the French Revolution, Edmund Burke, looking up at the Press Gallery of the House of Commons, said, 'Yonder sits the Fourth Estate, and they are more important than them all.'"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Estate



I would like to also remind everyone of the poster on RWV that says they have had enough 9some say is melody) when posting said something like "all it takes is one reporter" ...

What an interesting statement -- and i do not believe she/or he was referring to Peter.  I always felt it was a statement about Jossy.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 07, 2008, 11:01:45 AM
Thanks BB!  So Jossy was on island in June 2005.  He didn't have a reason to leave until August and that is when he had to obtain that visa to come to the US.  HMMMM.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: sirensong on June 07, 2008, 03:45:49 PM
Thanks Finngirl!  I find it interesting that things always trail back to Brickell Bay in Florida.  Too interesting.  I am probably the only one on here that NEVER trusted Jossy.  He is just too involved in island politics, and knows too many people to not know what happened.  I am sorry, but I do not trust him one bit.  He is too powerful to trust.  I was hoping he would do the right thing, but alas, he has too many friends and enemies in high positions.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Kermit on June 07, 2008, 06:28:28 PM
http://www.arubalions.org/Committees/Committee_2004-2005/ALC_Administrative_Committees_2004-2005.htm


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: sharon on June 07, 2008, 07:52:09 PM
Thanks to Rob, VMS, Pita, Hotping, Mum and anyone else I missed that supplied info today on Paciello....so I am assuming that Ernesto began his modeling career...if he was gay why did he get married...oh nevermind...so he was in the modeling scene before some of those on Aruba.  Wonder if Ronchi has connections to Paciello and Ernesto?  Does anyone remember the name of that modeling agency that Kawish was with?  Guido?  I am thinking out loud here...

Excellent work monkeys!!

Maybe so he could live in the US?? American wife?

I probably have way too much to catch up on. Sorry.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: sharon on June 07, 2008, 08:02:57 PM
Lala's...this puts Ernesto in Florida in 1994, and I have seen it posted he graduated that year. I am sure I went to the website and am looking for it now! Otherwise I will do the math!!!

http://www.miaminewtimes.com/2004-02-26/news/rope-tricks/


Published on February 26, 2004

But you clearly don't have the bod, the patter, or the attitude of Karen and her micro-mini'd ilk. All the usual suspects from the South Beach scene agree that most people living the high life without paying for it are the beautiful, traffickers in the beautiful, celebrities, or people from the nightlife, fashion, or music industries. "You're either well connected, or you wait in line and pay your money," says Ernesto Arambatzis, a promoter of events at the Delano and Mynt, who entered clubland a decade ago through the modeling pipeline.

Not sure if this helps -- but that would be Ernie's 'return' to Florida.

I have an article (somewhere) about a farewell party for him as he left South Beach for NYC in 1993 (iirc).

Maybe he didn't like the weather...but he seemed to return to S Florida in about a year.

Again -- apologies if I'm out of context.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: finngirl on June 08, 2008, 03:25:14 AM
Thanks Finngirl! I find it interesting that things always trail back to Brickell Bay in Florida. Too interesting. I am probably the only one on here that NEVER trusted Jossy.  He is just too involved in island politics, and knows too many people to not know what happened. I am sorry, but I do not trust him one bit. He is too powerful to trust. I was hoping he would do the right thing, but alas, he has too many friends and enemies in high positions.

YW  :cool:

I've never trusted Jossy, since Day One ...
neither did finbar

guess that makes three of us  :wink: :wink: :wink:



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Rob on June 08, 2008, 06:22:40 AM
Thanks Finngirl! I find it interesting that things always trail back to Brickell Bay in Florida. Too interesting. I am probably the only one on here that NEVER trusted Jossy.  He is just too involved in island politics, and knows too many people to not know what happened. I am sorry, but I do not trust him one bit. He is too powerful to trust. I was hoping he would do the right thing, but alas, he has too many friends and enemies in high positions.

YW  :cool:

I've never trusted Jossy, since Day One ...
neither did finbar

guess that makes three of us  :wink: :wink: :wink:



finngirl,
count me in . . . Jamie Skeeters didn't seem to trust him either.  ::MonkeyWink::

I used to speak to Jamie, before he died of course, and sometimes he would just start talking about other aspects of the case and the people involved - he had a lot to say about Jossy...
needless to say - I trusted Jamie a lot more than Jossy..

+++++++++++++

vms, I found that "Luis Oduber" a long time ago - but could never find anything more about him . . . he was my first serious guess as to who "Luis" really was. I'm not able to log in there - can you screen capture the pic???

if not, I'll open an account.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Blonde on June 08, 2008, 09:07:33 AM
Thanks Finngirl! I find it interesting that things always trail back to Brickell Bay in Florida. Too interesting. I am probably the only one on here that NEVER trusted Jossy.  He is just too involved in island politics, and knows too many people to not know what happened. I am sorry, but I do not trust him one bit. He is too powerful to trust. I was hoping he would do the right thing, but alas, he has too many friends and enemies in high positions.

YW  :cool:

I've never trusted Jossy, since Day One ...
neither did finbar

guess that makes three of us  :wink: :wink: :wink:


Five of us , I think Jossy know's way more then he's saying.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 08, 2008, 09:54:43 AM
Thanks Finngirl! I find it interesting that things always trail back to Brickell Bay in Florida. Too interesting. I am probably the only one on here that NEVER trusted Jossy.  He is just too involved in island politics, and knows too many people to not know what happened. I am sorry, but I do not trust him one bit. He is too powerful to trust. I was hoping he would do the right thing, but alas, he has too many friends and enemies in high positions.

YW  :cool:

I've never trusted Jossy, since Day One ...
neither did finbar

guess that makes three of us  :wink: :wink: :wink:



Only three ::MonkeyWink::

All is no as it appears...

Blonde...Thanks for the response on the computer records...

Sharon...anything on Ernesto in NY...TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: sharon on June 08, 2008, 10:41:43 AM
Mum

I'm looking but striking out. Most of the 'links' I saved -- many of them cached -- no longer work.

Sout out to vms....vms has a 'data center' wroth of stuff. I believe the frog has this stuff too ::MonkeyLaugh:: The article from the 'going away party' for Ernesto. He left Miami for New York. I think it was 2003.

Here's a link to a nother picture of Ernie. Not sure if you've seen this one. (some of my old links still work)


http://www.southbeach-usa.com/clubs/misc/stage/stage1.htm


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Silverfox on June 08, 2008, 12:43:08 PM
Thanks Finngirl! I find it interesting that things always trail back to Brickell Bay in Florida. Too interesting. I am probably the only one on here that NEVER trusted Jossy.  He is just too involved in island politics, and knows too many people to not know what happened. I am sorry, but I do not trust him one bit. He is too powerful to trust. I was hoping he would do the right thing, but alas, he has too many friends and enemies in high positions.

YW  :cool:

I've never trusted Jossy, since Day One ...
neither did finbar

guess that makes three of us  :wink: :wink: :wink:



finngirl,
count me in . . . Jamie Skeeters didn't seem to trust him either.  ::MonkeyWink::

I used to speak to Jamie, before he died of course, and sometimes he would just start talking about other aspects of the case and the people involved - he had a lot to say about Jossy...
needless to say - I trusted Jamie a lot more than Jossy..

Ditto me too -- since 2005


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 08, 2008, 12:44:11 PM
I don't think you are alone Finn...I have been trying to connect Jossy, Ernesto, Freddy and a few others.  The key here is Florida...the answers lie in something that happens in that state.  Too many coincidences. 

Jossy has a home there...his daughter owns a Hooters there, or did at some point. Ernesto is heavy into the South Beach scene...they all live within spitting distance of each other and Ft. Lauderdale.  Two years ago someone kept telling me that there is a lot of information in Ft. Lauderdale...I never understood that until recently.  We have people connected that live in Miami Beach, Miami, Doral, Ft. Lauderdale, Jacksonville,  Plantation, Stewart, and various other places in Florida.  I have had monkeys all over the place chasing things and they all go back to Florida...the place so many of our suspects and witnesses have been associated with.  I have become more suspicious as the days go by...the dots won't line up for me. I am hoping one of your other monkeys can do this...VMS, Mum, Finn, Sharon, Hotping, Rob, Grande, anybody at this point. 

I guess you can sense my frustrations...we have people changing names and address that don't go anywhere...this is more like a nightmare than reality.  I have never seen anything remotely like this story in the movies...they can't write this kind of stuff...nobody would believe it.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 08, 2008, 12:52:35 PM
http://www.arubalions.org/Committees/Committee_2004-2005/ALC_Administrative_Committees_2004-2005.htm

Now, unless I miss my guess here, Kermit never posts unless there is a reason...so I am looking at these names and I see some that are interesting...anyone notice anything too?

Maiky Croes?  Caps mentioned him too.
Andin Bikker?  Caps mentioned this guy also...heck I think Caps has mentionec most all of these people at one time or another.  Can't make the connections.  Lot's of Croes there and another name that rings a bell with me. HMMMMM.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: vms on June 08, 2008, 01:42:14 PM
This one, Sharon?


MOON OVER SKYBAR:
The Thursday night party at SkyBar has always had a large model following and often the party resembled a casting session with gorgeous young faces (and bodies) posed eternally on the beds around the pool. Since most of the models have grabbed their portfolios and made a fashionable exit along with the tourists I predicted an un-crowded party. WRONG! The place was packed and let me be the first to tell you…all the models haven’t left. Under an incredibly beautiful full moon, the beautiful and trendy partied and cuddled (on the beds). Many gathered to say goodbye (he’ll be back) to Ernesto Arambatzis who has moved to New York City. Some even danced to the sounds of DJ Nayib Esteban. SEEN: Jason Binn (he’s engaged), Jacquelynn D. Powers, Ernesto Arambatzis (who’s leaving us for NYC), Jose Ortiz (who’s leaving us for L.A.), Eddie Smith, promoters Erica Freshman and Zack Bush, stylish fashionistas Alicia & Dre, and photographer Seth Browarnik.   

http://www.miamisunpost.com/archives/2003/04-24-03/Nightlife.htm


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Rob on June 08, 2008, 03:03:43 PM
found this in an old file

(http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p149/Morgan2112_2006/deadoduber1.jpg)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Pita on June 08, 2008, 03:51:26 PM
Mum

I'm looking but striking out. Most of the 'links' I saved -- many of them cached -- no longer work.

Sout out to vms....vms has a 'data center' wroth of stuff. I believe the frog has this stuff too ::MonkeyLaugh:: The article from the 'going away party' for Ernesto. He left Miami for New York. I think it was 2003.

Here's a link to a nother picture of Ernie. Not sure if you've seen this one. (some of my old links still work)


http://www.southbeach-usa.com/clubs/misc/stage/stage1.htm


July 21, 2006

MOON OVER SKYBAR: The Thursday night party at SkyBar has always had a large model following and often the party resembled a casting session with gorgeous young faces (and bodies) posed eternally on the beds around the pool. Since most of the models have grabbed their portfolios and made a fashionable exit along with the tourists I predicted an un-crowded party. WRONG! The place was packed and let me be the first to tell you…all the models haven’t left. Under an incredibly beautiful full moon, the beautiful and trendy partied and cuddled (on the beds). Many gathered to say goodbye (he’ll be back) to Ernesto Arambatzis who has moved to New York City. Some even danced to the sounds of DJ Nayib Esteban. SEEN: Jason Binn (he’s engaged), Jacquelynn D. Powers, Ernesto Arambatzis (who’s leaving us for NYC), Jose Ortiz (who’s leaving us for L.A.), Eddie Smith, promoters Erica Freshman and Zack Bush, stylish fashionistas Alicia & Dre, and photographer Seth Browarnik.   

http://www.miamisunpost.com/archives/2003/04-24-03/Nightlife.htm



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on June 08, 2008, 04:41:06 PM
re: trusting Jossy.......The Simian wasn't entirely trusted either:

Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 2:59 am
The Simian Doppleganger is upset because the arawak nation is hiding the truth from the cowboys
DirtyHand knows
Simian knows
The Simian stated for 2 days, the key would come from the hague the next day
Shango said no two times
Is Simian a DirtyHand too
Has the Simian played with the lions
in the houses of ill-repute and poison notes
where the innocent flies are lured?
Has the Simian, primate that he is, fed with the other animals?
Back ye fetid mongrel, as the 46th are you; delegate of the 7th level of inferno,
not birthed, but spewed from the dark chasm of a nightmare!







Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 08, 2008, 05:18:42 PM
re: trusting Jossy.......The Simian wasn't entirely trusted either:

Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 2:59 am
The Simian Doppleganger is upset because the arawak nation is hiding the truth from the cowboys
DirtyHand knows
Simian knows
The Simian stated for 2 days, the key would come from the hague the next day
Shango said no two times
Is Simian a DirtyHand too
Has the Simian played with the lions
in the houses of ill-repute and poison notes
where the innocent flies are lured?

Has the Simian, primate that he is, fed with the other animals?
Back ye fetid mongrel, as the 46th are you; delegate of the 7th level of inferno,
not birthed, but spewed from the dark chasm of a nightmare!







Simian played?  Band?  Maybe poison notes is just that...musical notes.  Follow the music.  hmmmmm.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on June 08, 2008, 07:57:25 PM
Lala's:

Think maybe notes are loans (credit line anybody?)

What is "played" is "the game"

Follow the poison notes (money)

he will sing for his son: 'a poisonous siren in the halls of babylon'

why did the girl owe money

"but it was not a game"

http://www.ca11.uscourts.gov/opinions/ops/200214306.pdf
pg 4: "the game", "players", "honey laden notes"
pg 15: "forbidden fruits/secrets"
pg 18/22: "rules of the game"
pg 7/24: "Arawaks often go to play in small houses of babylon......", "not all lions leave their den"




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Kermit on June 08, 2008, 09:57:33 PM
MyntUltra Lounge
1921 Collins Ave.
MIAMI BEACH   FL   33139
Telephone: 786.276.6132
Fax: 786.276.6131
teamed with Mynt Lounge marketing director Ernesto Arambatzis
 http://www.bizbash.com/florida/newsletter/issue046.html

With or without the assistance of the moon this Wednesday night party, which Max co hosts with Ernesto Arambatzis,
http://www.miamisunpost.com/archives/2003/01-30-03/Nightlife.htm

Since I didn’t make an appearance at Skybar the previous week for Ernesto Arambatzis’ new party,
http://www.miamisunpost.com/archives/2003/03-06-03/Nightlife.htm


Creator Ernesto Arambatzis, president of Brainworks & Co.,
http://www.southbeach-usa.com/miami-beach-news/miami-beach-news-9.htm

(http://www.southbeach-usa.com/clubs/misc/stage/tony_ernesto_janet.jpg)


http://www.southbeach-usa.com/clubs/misc/stage/stage1.htm

Ernesto Arambatzis and friends at Level:


Ernesto is also on the team at the Rok bar.
http://www.cooljunkie.com/clubs/girl_about_town_0517_location_miami_1603.html

Open House Jan. 7, 2005
hosted by Ernesto Arambatzis
http://www.cooljunkie.com/miami/open_house_venue_cafeteria_miami_19720.html


The Marlin Hotel’s new owners are making quite a few changes with the historic hotel including transforming the lobby into a restaurant called REX.
On Tuesday night I joined a crowd of media types to sample the restaurants cuisine and check out the changes.
Ernesto Arambatzis
http://cubbywritesmiami.blogspot.com/

Ocean DriveMagazine
In association with Gerry Kelly and Noah Lazes Presents:
ELEVATE
The New Wednesday Night@Vivid
Hosted by Troy Parsons & Ernesto Arambatzis

Wednesday June 7th 2000 10PM
Complimentary Bar 10-11pm
RSVP For Complimentary <A HREF="http://www.clubplanet.com/guestlists/" TARGET="_blank">Guest List</A> 305.695.9299
Vivid
743 Washington Avenue
Miami Beach, FL 33139
VIP Table Reservations 305.695.9033 www.vividnightclub.com
http://bbs.clubplanet.com/miami/3252-vivid-nightclub.html
_______________________________________________________________________
"You're either well connected, or you wait in line and pay your money," says Ernesto Arambatzis, a promoter of events at the Delano and Mynt, who entered clubland a decade ago through the modeling pipeline.
http://www.miaminewtimes.com/Issues/2004-02-26/news/feature.html
FEb. 26, 2004

LALAMOM ASKED ABOUT THIS I THINK. SORRY I FORGOT TO POST IT AWHILE BACK FOR YA

Ernesto       Arambatzis             1994       Porlamar       NE       Venezuela
http://tinyurl.com/hzjel

(http://static.flickr.com/19/93972481_0885d65655.jpg)
Porlamar, Venezeula


LIVE WEB CAM (oops, don't scroll down if you are sensitive to natural booty) :D
from Isla Margarita, Portamar, Venezuela:
http://www.margaritainfo.com/webcam.htm

________________________________________________________________

From Grande's original post on SM, I traced back:


http://www.miami-dadeclerk.com/public-records/image.asp?page=1&cfn_master_id=17537889#image

http://www.miami-dadeclerk.com/civil/docketinfo.asp?pCase_Year=2005&pCase_Seq=9957&pCase_Code=FC&pCase_Loc=04&id=AAAA8tAAHAAAhW/AAb

There is a party promoter in Miami with the name, Ariel Stein, but I do not know if it is the same person.
http://www.cooljunkie.com/miami/automatic_slims_venue_automatic_slims_miami_8446.html
http://www.miaminewtimes.com/search/locations.php?oid=8112&locationSearch=1

The document shows Ernesto's date of birth as 8/18/76.
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(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b341/dkpen/ernestoaruba.gif)
Ernesto Arambatzis: On left


He is a model too!

so that makes:
Guido Wever
Kelvin Hally
and
Ernesto Armbatzis all models.

or in America we call them Porn Stars.












Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Rob on June 08, 2008, 10:16:16 PM
Lala's:

Think maybe notes are loans (credit line anybody?)

What is "played" is "the game"

Follow the poison notes (money)

he will sing for his son: 'a poisonous siren in the halls of babylon'

why did the girl owe money

"but it was not a game"

http://www.ca11.uscourts.gov/opinions/ops/200214306.pdf
pg 4: "the game", "players", "honey laden notes"
pg 15: "forbidden fruits/secrets"
pg 18/22: "rules of the game"
pg 7/24: "Arawaks often go to play in small houses of babylon......", "not all lions leave their den"




Follow the poison notes (money)

bogus bank loans - they set these up to money launder and a host of other criminal endeavors.

why did the girlowe money

maybe this girl is not Natalee... but the person with the bogus bank loans?? Anita?? Julie? any of those hens fit the bill.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 09, 2008, 12:31:37 AM
OK...OK...OK...I was just thinking out loud...I didn't mean I know anything about Shango.  Gosh!!   :roll:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 09, 2008, 04:30:41 PM
LaLa's - I know that Jossy has been a wonderful help to Beth and to Natalee's cause.  Everyone is grateful for what he has done......BUT, Jossy and his family have a dark and deep history of corruption. They are not clean.  The information that emerged from the BAT scandal was not pretty.  They own so much of that island.  In those BAT documents, I think I read that Jossy even maintains a Venezuelan citizenship which could be a connection to Freddy and Ernesto.  Are they related somehow, legitimately or illegitimately?  I just hate to disparage Jossy because of all that he has done and for what he continues to do, however, a man with his power on that small island knows exactly what happened that night.  I believe that he could break the entire case open.  I feel that he helps us only to a certain extent.  I also feel that the help that he has given may be political motivated because he has a few personal scores to settle. I have always felt that he could be Shango.  I also don't trust him.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 09, 2008, 05:50:27 PM
Mansur Citizenship
Aruban Connections
Five members of the Aruban Mansur Family, viz. Mr. Elias F. Mansur, Mrs. Damia M. de Cuba-Mansur, Mr. Luis E. Mansur, Mr. Miguel J. Mansur and Mrs. Sarah E. Arends-Mansur, have raised objections against general references in the following chapter to the Mansurs or the Mansur family. In their opinion these references may be understood as including them and thereby implicating them in alleged wrongdoing they have never committed.
The author is of the opinion that such references to a large family will not be misunderstood as including each and every member of the family. However, in case this opinion should prove incorrect, the author points out that he regrets such misunderstanding and that he did not intend said references to implicate all members of the family.
The Cuntrera-Caruana clan had links with another Aruban bank: the Interbank. The bank granted a credit to the Cuntrera company "Investeringen Tweehonderd en Tien" for 1.8 million Aruban guilders (approximately one million dollars). Why the Cuntreras who own several investment companies in Venezuela needed the loan is unknown.
One could speculate, however, this was a 'loan-back' operation to launder money. An amount of money is deposited cash at a bank and the bank lends the money back: now there is a clean and legitimate source of earnings. But there is no proof, no one ever looked really into the relations of the bank with the Sicilian mafiosi. The letter of credit was issued before the mafia connections of the clan became officially known on the island. This did not stop the bank from keeping the Cuntreras as clients. During Operation Wiseguy the undercover DEA agents were asked to wire money for a shipment of hashish on the account of Alfonso Cuntrera at the Interbank.
The Interbank is owned by the Mansur Family. If anybody owns 60 per cent of the island, it is this powerful family. The Mansurs made their fortune as cigarette manufacturers and in the import-export business. With a licence of Philip Morris, they are the major suppliers of Marlboros in the Caribbean basin. The Mansurs sponsor the best baseball team - Aruba's national sport - the Marlboro Red Tigers as well as the AVP party of Prime Minister Henny Eman. They own the biggest hotel and time-sharing complex, La Cabana, with its inevitable casino. And they have a couple of import-export businesses in the Free Trade Zone.
Jossy Mansur is the owner and chief editor of the biggest newspaper on the island, "Diario". ""When I read an article in Diario, I know what will be the next action of the government","says Hendrik Croes, adding that the Mansurs create a climate of fear and intimidation on Aruba. Their newspapers force others off the market. Furthermore, ""their annual income is bigger than the yearly budget of the government. And you may guess how they make that kind of money"."""Jossy Mansur is not impressed claiming that accusing people of drug trafficking and money laundering ""has become a political tool to discredit them"." (75) Jossy Mansur acts as the family's mouthpiece, Ruben and the elder Alex are the patriarchs, and Elias 'Don' Mansur is the family's whizz-kid. Elias graduated at Notre Dame University, and was Minister of Economic Affairs in Eman's first cabinet. As representative for the Free Trade Zone entrepreneurs in a mixed Dutch-Aruban commission he has to recommend measures to tighten regulations in the FTZ to prevent money laundering and contraband, together with Dutch government officials. (76)
More and more the name Mansur turns up in money laundering cases. Alex and Eric Mansur were indicted in Puerto Rico in August 1994. (77)
In Venezuela the Mansurs are implicated in money laundering with Santa Lopesierra, the Marlboro Man. Every month Santa 're-invests' 20 million dollar ""with the help of a well-known entrepreneur called Mansur"""." (78) Lopesierra is accused to have financed his election with the proceeds of drug trafficking and a car-theft ring. He is also reputed to be the man behind the Puerto Rico indictment. The activities of Mansur and Lopesierra, however, go well beyond this. They are accused of illegally funding the presidential campaign of Colombian president Ernesto Samper in 1994. Not only did Samper allegedly receive 6 million dollars from the Cali Cartel - an accusation he vehemently denies and ascribes to political machinations - it is said he also pocketed US$ 500,000 in cash offered by ""a group from Philip Morris and Interbank"." (79)
The Mansur Family seems to have all the right connections in its corner of the Caribbean. Some Mansur's still have Venezuelan nationality, and they have interests in Maracaibo and Caracas, as well as in Punto Fijo and Coro, where the originally Lebanese Mansur  Family had settled before moving to Aruba. Punto Fijo is situated on the Paraguaná peninsula in the North at the Golfo de Venezuela, which separates it from La Guajira. A ferry connects Punto Fijo to Aruba. Some 20 years ago, in 1974, a few Sicilians set up a fishing company in Punto Fijo called "Mediterranea Pesca". Among the shareholders: Leonardo and Giuseppe Caruana and Giuseppe Cuffaro. The company owned a sea-going vessel and Italian police suspected that ""in view of the background of the owners it is probably a cover for drug trafficking"." (80)
Most observers do agree on that supposition. Nothing moves on Aruba without the consent of the Mansur's: ""If you want to do business on the island, you have to deal with them
Let's repeat part this last paragraph. "Nothing moves on Aruba without the consent of the Mansur's: ""If you want to do business on the island, you have to deal with them."" I wonder how much has changed since this report was written!
So where's Natalee, and who should we be asking? And by the way, I also can't help but wonder why Fox and the other media interviewed the Mansurs and presented them as credible witnesses without discovering and disclosing these and other related matters.
http://www.hyscience.com/archives/2005/10/harrytho_1017_e.php
That past was controlled by the Arubanese Volks Partij (AVP) within which Jossy Mansur, editor of the Dairio newspaper and spokesperson for the Venezuelan-origin Mansur family, is the godfather. Many members of the Mansur family (Lebanese ancestry) maintain their Venezuelan passports. Conveniently, the Mansurs maintain economic activities in Puento Fijo, Coro, Caracas and Maracaibo Venezuela. These economic activities, despite their monopoly on many tradable commodities, center on the more clandestine forms of money laundering and drug trafficking. Exchanges between Aruba and Venezuela occur routinely with the use of fastboats, owned by the Mansur family.

In recent years, Aruba has shed the Mansur-controlled AVP in favor of Gilberto Francois Croes' (Betico Croes) Movemento Electoral di Pueblo (MEP). Upon the murder of Betico Croes (accredited to Jossy Mansur), Nelson Oduber assumed the reigns of the MEP. In cooperation with the United States' Drug Enforcement Agency (DEA), Nelson Oduber's MEP enacted strict banking codes in order to allow the central bank of Aruba (cba) to hamper money laundering activities in Aruba. Banking codes, similar to the American policies requiring suspicious activities reports (SARs), were required to be filed whenever suspicious banking transactions occurred within the Aruban financial institutions, specially, the Intercon Financial Bank (infamous trafficking bank) and the Interbank (owned by the Mansur family). Clearly, the actions of the MEP upon the Aruban financial industry were detrimental to the money laundering and drug trafficking activities of the criminal elements operating between Venezuela and Aruba.
Update [hat tip - George( comments below)] : For confirmation that the Mansur clan has dirty hands in drug trafficking, money laundering and worse, look at their connections to terrorism, such as with Hezbollah:
(...) According to El Espectador, Mohamed Ali Farhad has been linked to a money laundering investigation that involved the Aruba-based Mansur clan of Eric and Alexander Mansur, who controlled cigarette smuggling in the 1990s through the Mansur Free Zone Trading Company N.V., with its main offices in the Netherlands Antilles. 120 The Mansurs inherited a smuggling and drug trafficking empire established in the islands by the Cosa Nostra's Cuntrera-Caruana clan, when it began to work in Venezuela with Cali Cartel organizations.
(...) Until the U.S. indictment of the Mansur brothers for money laundering, Philip Morris' main (118 Vheadline.com (Venezuela), April 1, 2000. 119 Castillo. 120 Ibid. Library of Congress - Federal Research Division Narcotics-Funded Terrorist/Extremist Groups) distributor in Latin America was the Mansur Free Zone Trading Company, N.V.121 According to a lawsuit filed against Philip Morris in 2000 by the governors of 25 of Colombia's 32 departments, plus the capital district of Bogotá, the company sold tobacco to smugglers in exchange for narco dollars, in what is commonly referred to as the Black Market Peso Exchange (BMPE). "Instead of repatriating narco dollars from their U.S. sales points, money launderers simply use them to purchase goods, which are then exported to Colombia and other Latin American countries and sold for pesos," according to the lawsuit. "The pesos then flow into the Colombian bank accounts of the drug barons."Allegedly, much of the proceeds garnered by the Mansur brothers went to Hizballah. - End item.


Although the money laundering potential on Aruba is limited, the true explosive and rewarding market for drug proceeds is the United States of America where the monies can be integrated into a plethora of investment structures, and the Mansurs have been in a position to capitalize on it (as have been the terrorists via the Mansurs). Huge American financial institutions (billions of dollars in assets) can employ these funds into the startup phases of risky investments, such as urban development projects.

In order to exploit the potential of the American financial markets, Aruba's financial oversight needed to be relaxed in order to allow drug trafficking proceeds to flow unhampered by regulations. In a sense, the marriage between the MEP and the American DEA needed to be divorced. In the fall of 2005, Aruba would entertain a national election. Clearly, if the AVP could pick additional members of parliament sufficient to take control of the government (11 ministers required for control), they could oust the MEP and commence relaxing the oversight of the Aruban banking community. A plot to discredit the MEP could provide such avenue for success.

If we grant the commencement scenario that AmSouth Bank was involved with the Interbank of Aruba and the Banco de la Construccion of Venezuela, we have a motivated group with which to entertain a caper, designed to discredit and topple the MEP.
http://www.hyscience.com/archives/2005/10/harrytho_1023_n.php
There is much more to this post at the PP - it goes into the accusations Luis Emilio Mansur and Jossy Mehsen Mansur are accused of. They deny the claims (and say it violates their rights)
http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27039

Registery of Businesses
JOSSY MANSUR REAL ESTATE NV
Business address SASAKIWEG Z/N, NOORD
Legal form LIMITED LIABILITY COMPANY
Name of the company JOSSY MANSUR REAL ESTATE NV
Statutory seat ARUBA
Date of incorporation 15 MARCH 1995
Authorized capital ARUBAN FLORINS 50,000.00
Issued capital ARUBAN FLORINS 10,000.00
Paid up capital ARUBAN FLORINS 10,000.00
Fiscal year 01 JANUARY thru 31 DECEMBER
DIRECTORS - AUTHORIZED PERSONS AND CORPORATE BODIES - SUPERVISORY BOARD:
MANSUR, JOSSY MEHSEN;
Residing in IERLANDSTRAAT 10, ORANJESTAD, ARUBA
Born in ARUBA on 7 JUNE 1934
Nationality DUTCH  Possibly a dual citizenship if born on Aruba?
Position MANAGING DIRECTOR
Effective 15 MARCH 1995
Authority FULL

Decision on admissibility
1. The authors of the communication are Luis Emilio Mansur and Jossy Mehsen Mansur, Dutch citizens  ???  who are residents of Aruba. They claim to be victims of violations by the Kingdom of the Netherlands of their rights under articles 2 and 17 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights. The victims are represented by Dr. Jan M. Sjöcrona of The Hague, the Netherlands and Mr. John H. Van der Kuyp of Oranjestad, Aruba.
[2.1 The authors are members of the business community in Aruba. Among other enterprises Luis Emilio Mansur is co-owner of a shipping company and Jossy Mehren Mansur is owner and editor-in-chief of a newspaper and co-owner of a trading company.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 09, 2008, 05:55:37 PM
SS
No doubt he could indeed be Shango...that seems to be a popular guess..but it's only that at this point...a guess.  I and many other monkeys have been trying really hard to connect Freddy, Ernesto, and Jossy.  Still, you must remember this, Shango is speaking of the underbelly of Aruba and he distances the Kalpoes and Joran as much as possible.  Shango's postings do everything possible to convince the reader that the Kalpoes were not there when the deed happened and that Joran was just in the wrong place at the wrong time.  Shango places the blame on those that can't be touched...that is not a good place to stand if you are Jossy.  It would mean that you knew all this time what happened and did nothing about it.  JMO


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 09, 2008, 06:14:01 PM
Hmmm...

If Jossy was born on Aruba to Venezuelan parents, his citizenship is dual Venezuelan/Aruban.  If he later applies for Dutch citizenship, he becomes Dutch/Aruban and maybe or maybe not Venezuelan, anymore.  As Dutch/Aruban he gets a nice benefit.  The interesting question is how could he qualify for the Dutch citizenship if his parents were Lebanese from Venezuela and he was born on Aruba?  Wouldn't he be required to live in the Netherlands in order to go through the citizenship process?  He went to school in the US, but he did he ever have residency in Holland?  He does have a home in Florida. I wonder what country Jossy is actually a citizen of?

__________________________________

There is Federal Income Tax in Aruba, and no Dutch State Tax. The Dutch don't have to pay tax when they maintain their dual citizenship, Dutch Aruban. This is a public corruption hated by all the local Arubans.

http://arubanboycott.blogspot.com/2007/02/arubas-increase-in-taxes-killing.html



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 09, 2008, 06:19:59 PM
LaLa's,

Do Mansur interests in Maracaibo = Freddy and Ernesto?

Hmm


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 09, 2008, 06:22:27 PM
LaLa's,

Do Mansur interests in Maracaibo = Freddy and Ernesto?

Hmm

I think we have some monkeys working on just that subject...will let you know if they find anything of value.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 09, 2008, 06:39:11 PM
Dutch Citizenship

Birth in the Netherlands from non-Dutch parents (both being no Dutch subjects, or the mother being no Dutch subject if the father is unknown) confers Dutch citizenship only if:

the child and one of the parents are residents of the Netherlands, the Dutch Antilles or Aruba, and
at the time of birth of that parent, one of his or her parents was a resident of one of these countries.

The option procedure is a simpler and quicker way of acquiring Dutch citizenship compared to naturalisation. In effect, it is a form of simplified naturalisation.

In order to be eligible for the option procedure, it is necessary to hold a Dutch residence permit and belong to one of the following categories:

the person is of age, born in the Netherlands and has lived in the Netherlands, the Dutch Antilles or Aruba continuously since birth.  
born in the Netherlands, the Dutch Antilles or Aruba, and lived there for an uninterrupted period of at least three years and since birth the applicant has not had a nationality (i.e. the person is stateless).
the person is of age and has legally lived in the Netherlands, the Dutch Antilles or Aruba since age four.
the person is of age, a former Dutch citizen and has lived in the Netherlands, the Dutch Antilles or Aruba for at least one year on the basis of a permanent residence permit or a residence permit for a non-temporary residence objective.
married to a Dutch citizen for at least three years and has legally lived in the Netherlands, the Dutch Antilles or Aruba for an uninterrupted period of at least 15 years.
aged 65 or over and has legally lived in the Netherlands, the Dutch Antilles or Aruba for an uninterrupted period of at least 15 years.
a minor, are acknowledged by a Dutch citizen who has been cared for and brought up by this Dutch citizen for an uninterrupted period of at least three years.
a minor who, as a result of a Court decision or by law at the time of your birth, is under the joint custody of a non-Dutch father or mother and another person who is a Dutch citizen. Since the start of this custody the person has been cared for and brought up by this Dutch citizen for a period of at least three years and since then has also had a principal place of residence in the Netherlands.
Applicants for Dutch citizenship through the option procedure do not have to renounce any foreign citizenship they hold.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_nationality_law#Dual_citizenship
--------------

So, it looks like Jossy could actually claim tri-citizenship which would be Venezuela through one or both parents, Aruba by birth, and the Netherlands by birth on Aruba with continual residence, and he wouldn't have to renounce any former citizenship.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 09, 2008, 07:20:16 PM
SS…Hit and run…Sorry..
The only places I can put Ernesto are Bradenton and Miami Florida. I can’t find him in Porlamar Venezuela or New York, as of now. The link that Kermit has posted on the previous page is for Bradenton Prep. School that does have ties to overseas schools. I was unable to get very far with that.

But on people searches I find Bradenton as a previous place he has resided. Do you have any way to find out if this school actually has residences…ie some students live in? Any more info on him??

I believe Ernesto was in Florida as early as 1991, can’t prove it, but I can’t prove he was in Venezuela either!

Well maybe I can prove he was in  Florida in 1991….just not at his moment… ::MonkeyWink::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on June 09, 2008, 07:58:06 PM
LaLa's - I know that Jossy has been a wonderful help to Beth and to Natalee's cause.  Everyone is grateful for what he has done......BUT, Jossy and his family have a dark and deep history of corruption. They are not clean.  The information that emerged from the BAT scandal was not pretty.  They own so much of that island.  In those BAT documents, I think I read that Jossy even maintains a Venezuelan citizenship which could be a connection to Freddy and Ernesto.  Are they related somehow, legitimately or illegitimately?  I just hate to disparage Jossy because of all that he has done and for what he continues to do, however, a man with his power on that small island knows exactly what happened that night.  I believe that he could break the entire case open.  I feel that he helps us only to a certain extent.  I also feel that the help that he has given may be political motivated because he has a few personal scores to settle. I have always felt that he could be Shango.  I also don't trust him.




Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 11:31 am
I am from Aruba…and it is tragically funny to read how most of you speculate with information you read or see an CNN and Fox News.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 11:56 am
Who said that they all had sex with her? Nobody did as far as I know.
We have seen exclusive footage here in Aruba from our local news that CNN and Fox News did not have. According to our local reporters the Americans were asleep at the hotel.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 2:15 pm
To: jon Says:
June 22nd, 2005 at 1:33 pm

I did not say anything. You people wanted to know what is going down? Well, that is what is going down. That is the information in the circles and in the press in Aruba. Which for some reason is being send out through CNN and Fox News.  For the umpteenth time…the FBI is in Aruba and is involved with the case.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 4:23 pm
The news in Aruba has reported that Joran has shut down.

Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 11:17 am
Waiting for a call…

Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 2:23 pm
The older Van Der Sloot has been taken in again by Aruban Police.
Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 2:27 pm
Can’t confirm that he is detained. He has been taken in again by the authorities.
Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 2:46 pm
Confirmed. He has been detained

Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 2:53 pm
Has Greta not learned yet that we don’t charge our people until trial???

Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 2:58 pm
One of the Kalpoes might be let go. Can’t confirm.

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 3:31 pm
The father was confronted with evidence. Can’t confirm if it’s from the cars of the house. They needed this to make him talk.

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 3:54 pm
I can confirm they are there. The 3 of them. Remember the Kalpoes know nothing they were informed aournd the pool deck by Joran.

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 4:20 pm
TexasBelle, he is the owner and publisher of the largest newspaper in Aruba. A well-respected man. He just painted scenarios. Just like the 24-hour news media has painted out of proportion scenarios about the island itself.

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 5:36 pm
TexasBelle you American Imperialist mind is wrapped around it’s own greatness. Now if the Houston Chronicle were as big as Le Monde than I would be impressed.

I also hope that Natalee will be found and returned to the US togther with the blood-thristy, a- life-for-ratings media that is so loved.

No battle. The man on the inside will call soon. The confrontation will last all night. The boy’s arrogance will be his downfall.

AllyinMiami Says: June 27th, 2005 at 12:11 pm
he said to keep watching the news, and that he apologizes for the confusion , but he is tired of people trying to impersonate him

Simian Says: June 28th, 2005 at 2:09 am
The Simian is disapointed. The Simian repeats himself seldom, but like to say the he only reports ahead of time. The clues were solely to avoid implicating sources. Never to hurt the feeling of the readers.
Seeing how this has been used to foul, the Simian will again say that he will retire.


Simian Says: June 28th, 2005 at 2:21 am
The Simian doesn’t make predictions. Only gives the group information ahead of time. Predictions are for fools. This is the Simian.

Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 2:45 am
Shango finds it very humorous (and quite fitting) that a frenchman would assume the monniker of a Primate

Simian Says: June 28th, 2005 at 2:50 am
As opposed to? Crack a book some time…




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 09, 2008, 08:07:42 PM
SS…Hit and run…Sorry..
The only places I can put Ernesto are Bradenton and Miami Florida. I can’t find him in Porlamar Venezuela or New York, as of now. The link that Kermit has posted on the previous page is for Bradenton Prep. School that does have ties to overseas schools. I was unable to get very far with that.

But on people searches I find Bradenton as a previous place he has resided. Do you have any way to find out if this school actually has residences…ie some students live in? Any more info on him??

I believe Ernesto was in Florida as early as 1991, can’t prove it, but I can’t prove he was in Venezuela either!

Well maybe I can prove he was in  Florida in 1991….just not at his moment… ::MonkeyWink::



Hi Mum,

I did read the post about Bradenton.  Most of my databases are for post-secondary/college level because I don't have a lot of activity involving kids transferring to other secondary, private, or prep level schools, especially between where I am located and Florida.  Tomorrow, when I get to my office computer, I will see what I can come up with.  Some prep schools do include a "Junior College" component which is the equivalent of the first two years of college or an Associate of Arts degree.  Military schools often do this.  These "Junior College" or "Prep" programs are usually for kids who aren't socially or academically prepared for a regular four year college program.  I don't recall that Kermit's post indicated whether Ernesto had completed a high school/secondary level or the two year post-secondary level.  I'll see what I can dig up.

I am now thinking of a Maracaibo connection in terms of a Mansur relative or possibly someone who is a loyal employee of the Mansurs in Maracaibo.  Have we ever been able to determine who Freddy's father is and whether Freddy and Ernesto have the same father?  Ernesto doesn't seem to use the name Zedan.  Is Rodriquez the mother's maiden name?  Those multiple names make me crazy.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Observer on June 09, 2008, 08:43:27 PM
I see 5 addresses in Miami for Ernesto Arambatzis since July 2001

Also there is there is 6 addresses for Jossy Mansur in Miami. One of them has two Jossy Mansurs listed at same address. Could me a mistake.

JOSSY M MANSUR Born  Jun 1934
JOSSY E MANSUR Born  Jun 1962 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 09, 2008, 09:00:43 PM
Bradenton Prep

This is just a K-12 private school.  There are students who are boarders as well as local students.  They have an international focus, probably for financial growth.  They are actually opening a campus in Dubai.  The school has all of the current buzz words on their website that do little more than blow a lot of smoke in the direction of one's posterior.  They have also established a very comprehensive use of computer classes.  This is a technique which allows a small school to increase curriculum offerings without paying for additional teachers.  The kids take online classes.  In other words, it's big business.  The school does have an accreditation.

I found something very interesting.  They were cited for some pretty big athletic violations.  Most K-12 schools don't get involved in this kind of nonsense.  This is stuff that we usually hear about involving colleges and the NCAA.  The administration sounds pretty sleazy based on this report.

Hillsborough County:
 

 

Prep School Issued Record Breaking Fine
Posted By Nick Williams at Jun 09, 2008 at 03:34 PM
Updated Jun 09, 2008 at 05:08 PM


Bradenton Preparatory, a small private school in Manatee County, has been fined $38,000 and placed on probation by the Florida High School Athletic Association for violating 19 FHSAA regulations, mainly recruiting violations in its football, boys’ tennis and basketball programs. The fine is the largest ever assessed by the FHSAA and is the largest number of allegations against one member school, FHSAA spokesperson Cristina Alvarez said.

According to a release issued by the FHSAA, the investigation began last November when the organization received information from several member schools, as well as a member of the FHSAA Board of Directors.

Alvarez said the school was initially fined over $60,000, but because the administration cooperated, the fines were decreased. Bradenton went as far as terminating two athletic directors, two basketball coaches and changing its admission form to appease the FHSAA.

“They are doing whatever it takes to get back under good standings,” Alvarez said.

Alvarez said the school can present its case before the Infractions Appeals Committee in July, but if Bradenton rejects the committee’s decision, it will have to wait until September to appeal its case to the Board of Directors.

Bradenton Prep was closed when reached for comment.

Here is a summary of the investigation:

• Seven student-athletes were improperly contacted by a parent, outside agents and/or college recruiters;
• Three student-athletes lived with a representative of the school’s athletic interest;
• Bradenton Prep violated FHSAA Policy 9 (the falsification of the FHSAA Financial Report Form for a Preseason Spring Classic Football Game);
• Three student-athletes violated FHSAA Bylaw 11.4.10 (transferring while under disciplinary sanctions at his/her former school); and
• Five student-athletes violated FHSAA Policy 38, Section 6.0 (financial assistance).

Bradenton Prep took the following proactive measures, including proposed consequences, for the violation of FHSAA regulations:
• Two Athletic Directors employed by the school are no longer employed;
• Two basketball coaches at the time of the incidents are no longer employed by the school;
• The school will hold a meeting with the entire coaching staff each semester to discuss the FHSAA rules including those related to recruiting;
• The school will require all students interested in financial assistance to complete all necessary TADS forms;
• The school will require all coaches to sign a contract stating that they understand and agree that they are prohibited from communicating with any recruiters, parents who may be acting a recruiter, or recruiting agencies in any manner;
• The school will change its application for admission form to specifically ask if the applicant has “ever been suspended, expelled or withdrawn from any school for any reason”; and
• The school will pay a fine deemed appropriate by the FHSAA.

Considering the cooperation and proactive measures taken by the school balanced with the significance of the violations, the following penalties were imposed in this case:

1. Reprimand.

2. Bradenton Prep’s basketball, football and boys’ tennis programs are placed on restrictive probation for a period of three years beginning with the 2008-09 school year and ending at the conclusion of the 2010-11 school year. For the three-year period, the following restrictions are imposed:
• The school cannot participate in the state series competition for the aforementioned sports;
• The school can only participate in regular contests. The school is not allowed to participate in any pre-season or post-season classics/jamborees;
• The school cannot participate against out-of-state teams, with the exception of participation against out-of-state teams during regular season tournaments; and
• The school cannot participate in home game broadcasts on television or radio.

3. The school is fined an accumulated $38,000.

http://www.tboblogs.com/index.php/sports/story/bradenton-prep-fined-38000-by-fhsaa/


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 09, 2008, 09:23:31 PM
Mum,

I have found some basic information about Bradenton Prep, but I will keep looking.  A few things jumped out at me from their website.

- They are showing a very diverse group of students, which means that they are probably pushing for international applicants.  International students = money, because many wealthy foreign parents want their kids educated in the US.

- There are very few photographs of the campus and nothing is available about residential dormatories.  The front of a building which was shown looks new and very nice.

- I have been unable to find any information about their tuition or resdiential fees.  This tells me that it is probably expensive and I wonder who paid Ernesto's tuition bill?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 09, 2008, 10:34:32 PM
SS…Thanks…This is the only Arambatzis that came up in Venezuela…JE found it a while back. There is a Robby in Aruba. A young pitcher, as in kid I believe, vms found this and we have Lillian Regina Arambatzis Rodriguez Albert = supposedly Freddy’s mom??

Caps said Zedan=0   Arambatzis=2…Did ‘Freddy' leave??

Robby - Aruba
http://solodipueblo.com/index.php?option=com_docman&task=doc_view&gid=102

Feb 25, 2008 ... ARAMBATZIS PEREZ ROBBY GERARDUS from JE’s Link From Dr Phil docs… Name: Luis Guillermo Rodriguez Date:22 July 2005 Pages: 5 ...
scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1952.2620 - 137k - Cached - Similar pages


REP de Diciembre de 2007.
6 066 613   ARAMBATZIS PEREZ ROBBY GERARDUS   ♂   52


http://www.esdata.info/centro/38162/electores/1

Working on Ernesto’s mom…….

Anyone know who owns that newspaper?...TIA







         



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 09, 2008, 11:10:30 PM
Everyone..thanks for your responses on Ernesto...been trying to catch up ... still way behind and heaps of links of open...again thanks!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: hotping on June 10, 2008, 01:00:35 AM
Mum I sent You some info on Ernesto through Lala's....I hope it helps.... ::MonkeyCool::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 10, 2008, 01:12:47 AM
Can someone explain how these last names work for the women?  With the name Lillian Regina Arambatzis Rodriguez Albert, which name is the maiden name and which name(s) are married names?  Where does Zedan come in here?  If Arambatzis is a maiden name, maybe Ernesto was born before she was married.  Is there possibly a paternity obligation to educate a son in an expensive school?   Did Freddy go to the local high school?   Hmmm


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: vms on June 10, 2008, 01:16:57 AM
DJ Johnny the Boy

MANAGEMENT:
ERNESTO ARAMBATZIS
management@johnnytheboy.com

http://www.johnnytheboy.com/

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a398/vms58/Ernesto6.jpg)

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a398/vms58/Ernesto5.jpg)


********************


Florida Limited Liability Company 
ERNESTO ARAMBATZIS CONSULTING GROUP, LLC
Filing Information
Document Number L08000009286
FEI Number NONE
Date Filed 01/25/2008
State FL
Status ACTIVE
Effective Date 01/25/2008
 
Principal Address
7934 WEST DRIVE
LOFT 1001
NORTH BAY VILLAGE FL 33141 US
Mailing Address
7934 WEST DRIVE
LOFT 1001
NORTH BAY VILLAGE FL 33141 US
Registered Agent Name & Address
ARAMBATZIS, ERNESTO
7934 WEST DRIVE
LOFT 1001
NORTH BAY VILLAGE FL 33141 US
Manager/Member Detail
Name & Address
Title MGRM
ARAMBATZIS, ERNESTO
7934 WEST DRIVE, LOFT 1001
NORTHBAY VILLAGE FL 33141 US

Link (http://www.sunbiz.org/scripts/cordet.exe?action=DETFIL&inq_doc_number=L08000009286&inq_came_from=OFFFWD&cor_web_names_seq_number=0001&names_name_ind=P&ret_names_cor_number=&ret_cor_web_names_seq_number=&ret_names_name_ind=&ret_names_comp_name=&ret_names_filing_type=&ret_cor_web_princ_seq=&ret_princ_comp_name=ARAMBATZIS&ret_princ_type=)

http://www.sunbiz.org/COR/2008/0128/60110396.tif


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: hotping on June 10, 2008, 01:32:36 AM

VMS Great Find!  ::MonkeyCool:: ::MonkeyWink::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: hotping on June 10, 2008, 01:35:45 AM
VMS...That's really weird about His address on the consulting firm....He also listed it in Jan 2006 as his home address on His DL ..hmmmm


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: vms on June 10, 2008, 01:38:10 AM
VMS...That's really weird about His address on the consulting firm....He also listed it in Jan 2006 as his home address on His DL ..hmmmm

Is this it, Hotping?

7934 West Drive Unit 1001 Miami FL 33137

SPACE 01 Unit 1001 New York Style Lofts with panoramic water views of Biscayne Bay and the Miami Skyline. 2 bedrooms, 2 baths, 1919 sq ft. 11.6" ceiling heights and floor to ceiling windows. Italian design kitchen. 2 covered car garage and security entrance system. Heated lap pool and spa at roof top level Modern Fitness Center overlooking the Bay. Designer fixtures in bathrooms. Decorator ready floors. Condo Maintenance Fee: $270.32/mth. Currently listed for $709,000

http://www.proxibid.com/asp/LotDetail.asp?ahid=1509&aid=5265&lid=1673407&aiid=1


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: hotping on June 10, 2008, 02:15:10 AM
VMS...That's really weird about His address on the consulting firm....He also listed it in Jan 2006 as his home address on His DL ..hmmmm

Is this it, Hotping?

7934 West Drive Unit 1001 Miami FL 33137

SPACE 01 Unit 1001 New York Style Lofts with panoramic water views of Biscayne Bay and the Miami Skyline. 2 bedrooms, 2 baths, 1919 sq ft. 11.6" ceiling heights and floor to ceiling windows. Italian design kitchen. 2 covered car garage and security entrance system. Heated lap pool and spa at roof top level Modern Fitness Center overlooking the Bay. Designer fixtures in bathrooms. Decorator ready floors. Condo Maintenance Fee: $270.32/mth. Currently listed for $709,000

http://www.proxibid.com/asp/LotDetail.asp?ahid=1509&aid=5265&lid=1673407&aiid=1
Yes.....One in the Same!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: finngirl on June 10, 2008, 02:55:30 AM

the show of hands re Jossy was interesting

thanks to everyone who weighed in  :wink:



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: vms on June 10, 2008, 09:47:48 AM
Welcome to North Bay Village Florida
Shop, Dine, Travel & Explore North Bay Village Florida. Think Global. Live Local. Go Green.

Welcome to the North Bay Village Florida Vacation Guide and Local Directory.  The Beach Life North Bay Village is an online directory that connects businesses with customers without cutting down a single tree. Save money, save time, save the environment ... start your search online!  Our mission is to create community in a global world and we have been doing just that since 2001!

Updated 04/28/2008

<snipped>

ERNESTO ARAMBATZIS CONSULTING GROUP, LLC North Bay Village Florida 33141

http://www.tblife.com/northbayvillage/


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 10, 2008, 03:22:27 PM
Mum - I have found nothing more on Bradenton Prep, not even a tuition amount,  They probably aren't publishing the tuition and it may be only available through direct admissions inquiries.


I have a question.  I recall reading in one of Urine's many fairy tale statements that he went to Freddy's house and waited until Freddy came home.  I recall something about Urine talking to Freddy's sister.  Am I confused with someone else or does Freddy have a sister?  Does anyone know what her last name is?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 10, 2008, 03:55:37 PM
Mum - I have found nothing more on Bradenton Prep, not even a tuition amount,  They probably aren't publishing the tuition and it may be only available through direct admissions inquiries.


I have a question.  I recall reading in one of Urine's many fairy tale statements that he went to Freddy's house and waited until Freddy came home.  I recall something about Urine talking to Freddy's sister.  Am I confused with someone else or does Freddy have a sister?  Does anyone know what her last name is?


Thanks SS...sister Ghis/sp...vms posted the birthday pic, from that newspaper that posted the tennis pic...who owns that darn thing???only one I came up with at the time was Arends?? Got that from a Betico Croes Run results, have found 2 since and one is a pretty close match to the tennis pic...will have to search my notes find the links!

I found the last two by following Facebook friends and have a last name on one nothing like any we have heard associated with Freddy!

I am suspicious of that paper, as numerous searches on numerous peeps has taken me to the edition with the 2004 tennis article on Freddy and Joran. This is how Freddy was identified in August of 2005. I tried to follow that article back...and I was satisfied at the time as I found an article not connected to the case on an independant website. Now I am not so sure...I will have to find my post and the independanr website again!!!!

Also Sasha Rodriguez...there are some pics of her already posted...one at Moombas and one at her 15th. birthday party! With Ernesto, Freddy and an older man...unidentified! This puts Ernesto in Aruba in March of 2005 IIRC.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 10, 2008, 04:02:32 PM
Mum - I have found nothing more on Bradenton Prep, not even a tuition amount,  They probably aren't publishing the tuition and it may be only available through direct admissions inquiries.


I have a question.  I recall reading in one of Urine's many fairy tale statements that he went to Freddy's house and waited until Freddy came home.  I recall something about Urine talking to Freddy's sister.  Am I confused with someone else or does Freddy have a sister?  Does anyone know what her last name is?


Thanks SS...sister Ghis/sp...vms posted the birthday pic, from that newspaper that posted the tennis pic...who owns that darn thing???only one I came up with at the time was Arends?? Got that from a Betico Croes Run results, have found 2 since and one is a pretty close match to the tennis pic...will have to search my notes find the links!

I found the last two by following Facebook friends and have a last name on one nothing like any we have heard associated with Freddy!

I am suspicious of that paper, as numerous searches on numerous peeps has taken me to the edition with the 2004 tennis article on Freddy and Joran. This is how Freddy was identified in August of 2005. I tried to follow that article back...and I was satisfied at the time as I found an article not connected to the case on an independant website. Now I am not so sure...I will have to find my post and the independanr website again!!!!

Also Sasha Rodriguez...there are some pics of her already posted...one at Moombas and one at her 15th. birthday party! With Ernesto, Freddy and an older man...unidentified! This puts Ernesto in Aruba in March of 2005 IIRC.



SS and Finn...the facebook I followed had the initials D.M....Interesting friends! ::MonkeyWink::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 10, 2008, 04:10:05 PM
Mum - I have found nothing more on Bradenton Prep, not even a tuition amount,  They probably aren't publishing the tuition and it may be only available through direct admissions inquiries.


I have a question.  I recall reading in one of Urine's many fairy tale statements that he went to Freddy's house and waited until Freddy came home.  I recall something about Urine talking to Freddy's sister.  Am I confused with someone else or does Freddy have a sister?  Does anyone know what her last name is?


Thanks SS...sister Ghis/sp...vms posted the birthday pic, from that newspaper that posted the tennis pic...who owns that darn thing???only one I came up with at the time was Arends?? Got that from a Betico Croes Run results, have found 2 since and one is a pretty close match to the tennis pic...will have to search my notes find the links!

I found the last two by following Facebook friends and have a last name on one nothing like any we have heard associated with Freddy!

I am suspicious of that paper, as numerous searches on numerous peeps has taken me to the edition with the 2004 tennis article on Freddy and Joran. This is how Freddy was identified in August of 2005. I tried to follow that article back...and I was satisfied at the time as I found an article not connected to the case on an independant website. Now I am not so sure...I will have to find my post and the independanr website again!!!!

Also Sasha Rodriguez...there are some pics of her already posted...one at Moombas and one at her 15th. birthday party! With Ernesto, Freddy and an older man...unidentified! This puts Ernesto in Aruba in March of 2005 IIRC.




All of her kids seem to have different last names.  Freddy's mother must have been breeding like a rabbit.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: sharon on June 10, 2008, 09:14:11 PM
This one, Sharon?


MOON OVER SKYBAR:
The Thursday night party at SkyBar has always had a large model following and often the party resembled a casting session with gorgeous young faces (and bodies) posed eternally on the beds around the pool. Since most of the models have grabbed their portfolios and made a fashionable exit along with the tourists I predicted an un-crowded party. WRONG! The place was packed and let me be the first to tell you…all the models haven’t left. Under an incredibly beautiful full moon, the beautiful and trendy partied and cuddled (on the beds). Many gathered to say goodbye (he’ll be back) to Ernesto Arambatzis who has moved to New York City. Some even danced to the sounds of DJ Nayib Esteban. SEEN: Jason Binn (he’s engaged), Jacquelynn D. Powers, Ernesto Arambatzis (who’s leaving us for NYC), Jose Ortiz (who’s leaving us for L.A.), Eddie Smith, promoters Erica Freshman and Zack Bush, stylish fashionistas Alicia & Dre, and photographer Seth Browarnik.   

http://www.miamisunpost.com/archives/2003/04-24-03/Nightlife.htm

 ::MonkeyHaHa::

Yes. That one.  ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: sharon on June 10, 2008, 09:16:49 PM
Mum

I'm looking but striking out. Most of the 'links' I saved -- many of them cached -- no longer work.

Sout out to vms....vms has a 'data center' wroth of stuff. I believe the frog has this stuff too ::MonkeyLaugh:: The article from the 'going away party' for Ernesto. He left Miami for New York. I think it was 2003.

Here's a link to a nother picture of Ernie. Not sure if you've seen this one. (some of my old links still work)


http://www.southbeach-usa.com/clubs/misc/stage/stage1.htm


July 21, 2006

MOON OVER SKYBAR: The Thursday night party at SkyBar has always had a large model following and often the party resembled a casting session with gorgeous young faces (and bodies) posed eternally on the beds around the pool. Since most of the models have grabbed their portfolios and made a fashionable exit along with the tourists I predicted an un-crowded party. WRONG! The place was packed and let me be the first to tell you…all the models haven’t left. Under an incredibly beautiful full moon, the beautiful and trendy partied and cuddled (on the beds). Many gathered to say goodbye (he’ll be back) to Ernesto Arambatzis who has moved to New York City. Some even danced to the sounds of DJ Nayib Esteban. SEEN: Jason Binn (he’s engaged), Jacquelynn D. Powers, Ernesto Arambatzis (who’s leaving us for NYC), Jose Ortiz (who’s leaving us for L.A.), Eddie Smith, promoters Erica Freshman and Zack Bush, stylish fashionistas Alicia & Dre, and photographer Seth Browarnik.   

http://www.miamisunpost.com/archives/2003/04-24-03/Nightlife.htm



 ::MonkeyLaugh::

Applause, again!

Thanks Pita!

All I have is a memory  ::MonkeyLaugh:: And it's not always so good anymore after 3 years  ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Rob on June 10, 2008, 11:02:18 PM
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/6cf24bd2-2349-11dd-b214-000077b07658,s01=1.html?nclick_check=1

Conman who stole $224m but fell foul of Castro

By Phil Davison

Published: May 16 2008 19:27 | Last updated: May 16 2008 19:27

Of all the adjectives used to describe him, Robert Vesco – who has died at 72 – was happiest with “financier”. For the son of an Italian immigrant carworker in Detroit, the word had an exotic ring and he did not like to be called a crook, conman, fugitive, mobster, swindler or international drug dealer.

At his peak in the 1970s, he was worth several hundred million pounds (the equivalent of a few billion today), sailed the Caribbean in a Roman Abramovich-style yacht and flew around the world in a private Boeing 707 complete with discotheque, sauna and stewardesses who were particularly attentive to his needs. He named the aircraft the Silver Phyllis although it was not silver and he had no relatives called Phyllis. Apparently, the fact that it sounded like a venereal disease amused him.

Vesco was a self-made man who, as a young entrepreneur, liked to tell strangers he was chief executive of LPI. To the brave who dared ask, he would reply with a grin: Looting and Plundering Incorporated. He first came to world prominence when he took over Bernie Cornfeld’s flagging, Geneva-based Investment Overseas Services in 1970. Billed at the time as a “white knight,” he liked that phrase so much that he rode off into the sunset with, according to US authorities, most of the investors’ money – $224m to be exact. That allowed him to buy the yacht and the plane, which “made Air Force One [the US president’s aircraft] look like a no-frills airline”, according to a friend. The rare photographs of him, craggy-faced, with dark wavy hair, sideburns and designer shades, gave him something of a rock star image.

When he got rumbled by the Feds, he allegedly paid $200,000 (handed over in cash) to a staffer of Maurice Stans, then US commerce secretary and chief fund-raiser for Richard Nixon’s 1972 re-election campaign, to persuade Nixon to halt the US Securities and Exchange Commission investigation against him over the IOS swindle. The alleged bribe did not, in fact, turn the heat off him but it did, according to US court records, help finance the famous Watergate burglary that would eventually bring Nixon down.

Vesco thought owning his own country might help him out of a tight spot, and he could create his own passport, pay no tax and exempt himself from extradition. With the help of an influential political family in Antigua, he tried to establish what he called the Principality of the Sovereign Order of New Aragon, covering part of Antigua’s sister island of Barbuda, which he planned to turn into a “little Monaco in the Caribbean”. After that plan fell through, his attempt to broker the sale of US military aircraft to Colonel Muammer Gaddafi in Libya also ran into problems.

Thereafter, Vesco settled in Cuba and confined himself to simpler pursuits – helping run cocaine to the US via Nicaragua and Cuba, according to a US court deposition – and announcing he had found a citronella-based “miracle drug” called Trioxidal, or TX, that could cure cancer, Aids, arthritis, herpes, you name it, and allow each of us to live for several hundred years by boosting our immune system.

As it turned out, he was jailed in Cuba for fraud before the drug saw the light of day. Fidel Castro, the president, saw through the scam, put Vesco on trial as “a conspirator and agent of foreign secret services”, and had him locked away for 10 years.

True to his lifestyle, the world did not even know until last week that Vesco had died last November 23, or that the unmarked grave outside Havana, Cuba, was his. True to his lifestyle, there are some who wonder if he faked his own death to con the world one last time.

Robert Lee Vesco was born in Detroit on December 4 1935, the son of an Italian father and a Slovenian mother. He made a few bucks by opening bingo halls, bought a machine-parts company which he renamed, revealing the extent of his ambition, the International Controls Corporation, and was a dollar millionaire before he was 30. In 1970, he read about Cornfeld, a fellow American who had used Switzerland’s tax loopholes to run International Investment Services, a hall-of-mirrors corporation aimed at getting credulous people to invest in . . . well, as it turned out, Cornfeld himself. When Vesco came along as a “white knight”, investors were relieved – of the rest of their money.

With the SEC on his tail, Vesco drifted between countries where he could not legally be touched by American authorities: Costa Rica, Nicaragua under the Sandinistas, the Bahamas and finally Cuba, where Mr Castro accepted him as “a persecuted deer” until he fell foul of the Cuban leader.

Vesco, by then with a Canadian passport in the name of Tom Adams, became noted for his wild parties on his 137-foot yacht, for which the Cubans dredged a special berth in the city’s Hemingway Marina. He would pop up on Havana’s only golf course, where locals noted that he always had four caddies, each with a gun-butt protruding from under his guayabera. He liked a few mojitos in what was called the 19th Hole Bar even though it was only a nine-hole course.

When cohorts of Carlos Lehder. the Medellin cocaine baron now jailed in the US, told American investigators Vesco had arranged free passage over Cuba for Mr Lehder’s drugs aircraft to the US, Mr Castro was not pleased. But in the end it was the “miracle drug” scheme that put Vesco into a Cuban jail, from 1995 until 2005.

In 1995, I went to Havana to try to interview Vesco in jail. I failed, but found his partner in the pharmaceutical enterprise, Donald M. Nixon, widely known as Don Don, who happened to be a nephew of the former US president.

Proudly showing me a custom-made Havana cigar in the shape of a large penis, complete with testicles, Don Don told me: “Bob [Vesco] is the most brilliant man I’ve ever met”. Speaking of the drug TX, which got Vesco jailed, Mr Nixon insisted it would have been “the biggest story ever, the biggest breakthrough in the history of man, changing the total social and economic structure of the world . . . worth $10m a month net”.

Robert Lee Vesco is survived by his second wife, Lidia Alonso, and four children.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: finngirl on June 10, 2008, 11:17:13 PM
SS and Finn...the facebook I followed had the initials D.M....Interesting friends! ::MonkeyWink::

throw me a bone, eh?  :wink:

DM = ?



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 10, 2008, 11:47:01 PM
SS and Finn...the facebook I followed had the initials D.M....Interesting friends! ::MonkeyWink::

throw me a bone, eh?  :wink:

DM = ?




LOL...Finn...Who have we been talking about the last few pages? Female relative in Fl with interesting friends...found a Ghis,who didn't look like the Ghis I wanted, but who knows, this is the internet!

Put your name in there Finn, so that SS would read your last post and I wouldn't have to spell it out... ::MonkeyHaHa::



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: CapsLockWizard on June 13, 2008, 04:58:12 AM
Hi monkeys,

Reading and trying to catchup with all the past post..

Got help from the state....

will report later on what is going on after meeting.

CAPS


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Buckeye on June 13, 2008, 05:59:22 AM
Interesting post by sindalle at BFN:

I have always thought that the Freddy telling the true story was just a scapegoat. Because Paulus needed a way to explain why he suddenly knew the truth, when really he knew it all along. He needed to fabricate a way that the truth was delivered to him. So they pretended that Joran spilled his guts to Freddy and Freddy in turn grew a conscience and spilled it all to the parents.

And if, in fact, Freddy was the scapegoat, he was it voluntarily. Which means he knew the truth all along too.

Am I making sense? Say I saw my brother Matt steal five dollars from my mom. And my older brother, Bob,  saw it too, but Bob was supposed to be at school when the theft happened. So, he can't admit he saw Matt take the money, because to do so would be admitting he was where he wasn't supposed to be. So, a few says later he tells my mom that I came to him and confessed what Matt did. He needed a story, someone to pretend told him the truth afterwards. And in turn, I would have to play along and pretend that I told Bobby about Matt taking the money.

Am I making sense at all?

I think Paulus knew what happened to Natalee, but to admit he knew would be admitting wrong doing on his own part. So he made up this story about Freddy coming to his senses and telling him the truth, as Joran told it to him (Freddy). But in order for Paulus to tell that lie, Freddy would have to agree to pretend that he was the one that told Paulus the truth.

In short, I believe that both Freddy and Paulus knew the truth all along.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Helen Back on June 13, 2008, 10:02:40 AM
Hi monkeys,

Reading and trying to catchup with all the past post..

Got help from the state....

will report later on what is going on after meeting.

CAPS

Good to see you here, CAPS.  Sorry I can't stay up late enough to chat with you.......

Keep us posted, OK?

Helen Back


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: truthseeker2 on June 13, 2008, 11:32:50 AM
Interesting post by sindalle at BFN:

I have always thought that the Freddy telling the true story was just a scapegoat. Because Paulus needed a way to explain why he suddenly knew the truth, when really he knew it all along. He needed to fabricate a way that the truth was delivered to him. So they pretended that Joran spilled his guts to Freddy and Freddy in turn grew a conscience and spilled it all to the parents.

And if, in fact, Freddy was the scapegoat, he was it voluntarily. Which means he knew the truth all along too.

Am I making sense? Say I saw my brother Matt steal five dollars from my mom. And my older brother, Bob,  saw it too, but Bob was supposed to be at school when the theft happened. So, he can't admit he saw Matt take the money, because to do so would be admitting he was where he wasn't supposed to be. So, a few says later he tells my mom that I came to him and confessed what Matt did. He needed a story, someone to pretend told him the truth afterwards. And in turn, I would have to play along and pretend that I told Bobby about Matt taking the money.

Am I making sense at all?

I think Paulus knew what happened to Natalee, but to admit he knew would be admitting wrong doing on his own part. So he made up this story about Freddy coming to his senses and telling him the truth, as Joran told it to him (Freddy). But in order for Paulus to tell that lie, Freddy would have to agree to pretend that he was the one that told Paulus the truth.

In short, I believe that both Freddy and Paulus knew the truth all along.


Makes a lot of sense to me.  It would not surprise me if Freddy and Paulus were both there when Natalee met her fate.  The 'meeting' at the Sloots with Freddy could very well have cemented the "you tell them that you told me" scenario.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 13, 2008, 02:28:25 PM
This leads us back to Freddy as the 5th once again...of course.   ::MonkeyWink::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: truthseeker2 on June 13, 2008, 02:51:16 PM
This leads us back to Freddy as the 5th once again...of course.   ::MonkeyWink::

Very likely.  My top two for the 5th suspect have been Freddy and Paulus for a while now.  If Simian meant Lorenzo, I have to remind myself that Simian was passing along info from the ALE.  I have a hard time setting what the ALE says in stone.  Could ALE have been feeding Simian disinformation to deflect for the Sloots guilt??????


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Hotshot on June 14, 2008, 12:59:49 AM
Hi monkeys,

Reading and trying to catchup with all the past post..

Got help from the state....

will report later on what is going on after meeting.

CAPS

Hey caps, say Hi to all for me please.  I am praying is goes well.  Talk soon, email me if you get some time.
Kath


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Silverfox on June 14, 2008, 03:05:07 AM
Interesting post by sindalle at BFN:

I have always thought that the Freddy telling the true story was just a scapegoat. Because Paulus needed a way to explain why he suddenly knew the truth, when really he knew it all along. He needed to fabricate a way that the truth was delivered to him. So they pretended that Joran spilled his guts to Freddy and Freddy in turn grew a conscience and spilled it all to the parents.

And if, in fact, Freddy was the scapegoat, he was it voluntarily. Which means he knew the truth all along too.

Am I making sense? Say I saw my brother Matt steal five dollars from my mom. And my older brother, Bob,  saw it too, but Bob was supposed to be at school when the theft happened. So, he can't admit he saw Matt take the money, because to do so would be admitting he was where he wasn't supposed to be. So, a few says later he tells my mom that I came to him and confessed what Matt did. He needed a story, someone to pretend told him the truth afterwards. And in turn, I would have to play along and pretend that I told Bobby about Matt taking the money.

Am I making sense at all?

I think Paulus knew what happened to Natalee, but to admit he knew would be admitting wrong doing on his own part. So he made up this story about Freddy coming to his senses and telling him the truth, as Joran told it to him (Freddy). But in order for Paulus to tell that lie, Freddy would have to agree to pretend that he was the one that told Paulus the truth.

In short, I believe that both Freddy and Paulus knew the truth all along.


LOL.. thats because the probably both present at the time -- visa vis the white vehicle following Deepak as they left C  C


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 14, 2008, 09:18:37 AM
Silverfox is correct.  Freddy was questioned too many times not to have information ALE wanted.  It may have been a fishing expedition on their part, but they were gnawing at something they thought had meat.

The first statement we can substantiate is on June 12.  Then again on June 13. So was he in custody from June 11?  Seems they began his interview at 11 that morning...I guess Jacobs had finished his corn flakes by then and decided to question Freddy.  They speak to Satish the day before and first thing they do the next day is talk to Freddy....Freddy needs to tell the truth. Then they release the security guards.  Then question Freddy again..does that make anyone else go hmmmm? 

The more you look at that timeline of questioning the more interesting it becomes. Let's not forget that Meneses fellow  they spoke to over and over again...something there in that smoking gun...I wish I could determine what that was.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Silverfox on June 16, 2008, 05:14:50 AM
Lala's

Natalee was taken to an "event"

It all makes sense...

All those names who were floated out there and interrogated were interrogated because they were in attendance at the "event" ... No other explanation really fits...  The reason J2K become the primaries is because they were the last ones seen with her by the general public -- but the insiders?  Well, That entire ordeal....

Remember, "too many people would be hurt if the truth comes out?" Remember that?  That is because too many people were in attendance and actually know what happened.... from the very beginning -- which is why this cover-up is so widespread... too many fingers in the pie, relatives, connections -- from the Oduber boy to the Dompig boy etc., etc....

The reason all of us are spinning around from name to name is because all of us were correct in one form or another -- all these guys were involved and the 'adults" -- the parents had to be the ones to cover it up -- or they all fall, child/parent, child/parent.... etc...etc....

This is MUCH BIGGER than we ever imagined....


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 16, 2008, 06:41:38 AM
Lala's

Natalee was taken to an "event"

It all makes sense...

All those names who were floated out there and interrogated were interrogated because they were in attendance at the "event" ... No other explanation really fits...  The reason J2K become the primaries is because they were the last ones seen with her by the general public -- but the insiders?  Well, That entire ordeal....

Remember, "too many people would be hurt if the truth comes out?" Remember that?  That is because too many people were in attendance and actually know what happened.... from the very beginning -- which is why this cover-up is so widespread... too many fingers in the pie, relatives, connections -- from the Oduber boy to the Dompig boy etc., etc....

The reason all of us are spinning around from name to name is because all of us were correct in one form or another -- all these guys were involved and the 'adults" -- the parents had to be the ones to cover it up -- or they all fall, child/parent, child/parent.... etc...etc....

This is MUCH BIGGER than we ever imagined....


I agree Silverfox…and they had 10 days to put it all in place….and this is why I think Joran is untouchable...mispelt names, mixed up names, initials, addresses, addresses that don’t exist, buildings that weren’t built, maybe even fake pictures and tickle sites….from Aruba to Florida…what a tangled web!!!

I was going to post this when I saw your post….Take some Tylenol Lala’s….remembering a post that Caps made a while back about Freddy Alexander Zedan-Arambatzis Arends….

Freddy – Frederick Arends or Martina, guy in Kia on some sort of porn/video charges

Alexander – Gottenbos

Zedan – ? -still working on it?

Arambatzis – Ernesto

Arends – Max or Frederick




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 16, 2008, 06:48:27 PM
Lala’s….Could this have been how Rudy kept his position even though he didn’t have enough votes?  The Governor had input in the formation of the cabinet?  Is Rudy powerful enough to keep the position or did some-one more powerful make sure he ‘kept’ the position of Minister of Justice?

And if it was the Governor, would he be His Lordship or the Arawak King?

From Wiki…

The Governor of Aruba is the representative on Aruba of the Dutch head of state (Queen Beatrix). The governors duties are twofold: he represents and guards the general interests of the Kingdom and is head of the Aruban Government. He is accountable to the Government of the Kingdom of the Netherlands. As the head of the Government, the Governor is immune….

This under powers at the Governor’s site

The Governor also represents the Queen in Aruba and, consequently, is the head of the Government of Aruba. The Governor is immune and exercises his powers under the responsibility of the ministers, who, in turn, have to report on their actions to Parliament.

And one of my favorites…the Orange Regal Visage…

"Companian" in the Order of Orange Nassau and five "Member" in the Order of Orange Nassau. Mostly, the decorated persons were decorated because of their social or charitable merits in the fields of sports, culture, religion, welfare and education.
 
http://www.kabga.aw/en/index.php?page=de_gouverneur







Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 16, 2008, 07:31:21 PM
Lala's

Natalee was taken to an "event"

It all makes sense...

All those names who were floated out there and interrogated were interrogated because they were in attendance at the "event" ... No other explanation really fits...  The reason J2K become the primaries is because they were the last ones seen with her by the general public -- but the insiders?  Well, That entire ordeal....

Remember, "too many people would be hurt if the truth comes out?" Remember that?  That is because too many people were in attendance and actually know what happened.... from the very beginning -- which is why this cover-up is so widespread... too many fingers in the pie, relatives, connections -- from the Oduber boy to the Dompig boy etc., etc....

The reason all of us are spinning around from name to name is because all of us were correct in one form or another -- all these guys were involved and the 'adults" -- the parents had to be the ones to cover it up -- or they all fall, child/parent, child/parent.... etc...etc....

This is MUCH BIGGER than we ever imagined....
[/quote




You are so correct, Silverfox.  It was a cast of thousands that could have been the extras for the film Road Warrior.  The good news about a lot of people being involved is that eventually someone is going to slip up and talk... if they haven't already done so.  Someone will get angry at one of the others and start singing.  I just wish we could find the right button to push that will speed up the process.  I am hoping that pressure will be put on the Kalpoes.  They are really pretty stupid, Urine has stepped on their toes, their law suit is rapidly going down the hopper, and they could be the ones who will break first.  Let's hope.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Silverfox on June 16, 2008, 08:35:19 PM
Bird on the Wire - By Leonard Cohen

Quote
Like a bird on the wire,
like a drunk in a midnight choir
I have tried in my way to be free.
Like a worm on a hook,
like a knight from some old fashioned book
I have saved all my ribbons for thee.
If I, if I have been unkind,
I hope that you can just let it go by.
If I, if I have been untrue
I hope you know it was never to you.
Like a baby, stillborn,
like a beast with his horn
I have torn everyone who reached out for me.
But I swear by this song
and by all that I have done wrong
I will make it all up to thee.
I saw a beggar leaning on his wooden crutch,
he said to me, "You must not ask for so much."
And a pretty woman leaning in her darkened door,
she cried to me, "Hey, why not ask for more?"

Oh like a bird on the wire,
like a drunk in a midnight choir
I have tried in my way to be free.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 17, 2008, 09:39:16 AM
Oh...Lala's...Thanks vms... ::MonkeyDance::

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 5:36 pm
TexasBelle you American Imperialist mind is wrapped around it’s own greatness. Now if the Houston Chronicle  were as big as Le Monde than I would be impressed.

If you in North America think it’s silly that she might have travelled back to the US. It also seems silly to us in Aruba that she was sold into slavery.

 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 17, 2008, 09:56:43 AM
Texas Monkeys...Help!  How would Simian know about the Houston Chronicle?  Is it a big paper? I have never heard of it, heck I haven't heard of most here in Ohio! Just the really big ones, Columbus, Akron, Cleveland and the local ones!  TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: always 1 on June 17, 2008, 01:14:14 PM
It is the largest paper in Houston, owned by Hearst.  Probably available at Dallas Airport


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: always 1 on June 17, 2008, 01:25:33 PM
Sorry, I should I said, it is the largest paper in Texas..


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 17, 2008, 03:28:23 PM
Texas Monkeys...Help!  How would Simian know about the Houston Chronicle?  Is it a big paper? I have never heard of it, heck I haven't heard of most here in Ohio! Just the really big ones, Columbus, Akron, Cleveland and the local ones!  TIA

Google? LOL  I have my thoughts as to how Simian would know this. It would be the person he knew that told him this...if Simian is who we think...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: truthseeker2 on June 17, 2008, 04:08:12 PM
Texas Monkeys...Help!  How would Simian know about the Houston Chronicle?  Is it a big paper? I have never heard of it, heck I haven't heard of most here in Ohio! Just the really big ones, Columbus, Akron, Cleveland and the local ones!  TIA

Google? LOL  I have my thoughts as to how Simian would know this. It would be the person he knew that told him this...if Simian is who we think...

In the context of the original post, seems I remember that TexasBelle was relaying information she had read in the Houstin Chronicle.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 17, 2008, 04:14:31 PM
Texas Monkeys...Help!  How would Simian know about the Houston Chronicle?  Is it a big paper? I have never heard of it, heck I haven't heard of most here in Ohio! Just the really big ones, Columbus, Akron, Cleveland and the local ones!  TIA

Google? LOL  I have my thoughts as to how Simian would know this. It would be the person he knew that told him this...if Simian is who we think...


Thanks Lala's and always1 for your responses....Does Houston have a big Customs presence at their airport...Stupid question?  Course it does, probably a big International Airport!

SS...today is one of those days that I am convinced this case is way bigger than J2K and their little pimp friends. Way too big for there to ever be Justice for Natalee, and way too big for the truth ever to come out! May be way bigger than even Silverfox imagines!

Why does Joran think he is untouchable?  Why would Val even consider coming to the US to go to school?  Why would his parents even allow it?  Why would INS even give him a student visa? They certainly can deny one to whomever they please, for absolutely no reason...maybe they will! But I bet the Sloots will still vaction in the US... and I bet I have a harder time going through INS than they ever do?? Something Stinks!!!



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: truthseeker2 on June 17, 2008, 04:14:47 PM

And if it was the Governor, would he be His Lordship or the Arawak King?







I'm not Lalasmom but I have posted many times that I believe His Lordship is Fredis J. Refunjol and the Arawak King is Rudy Croes.  I could be wrong, but that is the way I look at the Shango posts when I go back nad read them.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 17, 2008, 08:15:37 PM
Texas Monkeys...Help!  How would Simian know about the Houston Chronicle?  Is it a big paper? I have never heard of it, heck I haven't heard of most here in Ohio! Just the really big ones, Columbus, Akron, Cleveland and the local ones!  TIA

Google? LOL  I have my thoughts as to how Simian would know this. It would be the person he knew that told him this...if Simian is who we think...

In the context of the original post, seems I remember that TexasBelle was relaying information she had read in the Houstin Chronicle.

I think you are correct.  Le Monde is a French daily that has a huge subscription list.  I think it was a comparison to numbers.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 17, 2008, 09:11:25 PM
Texas Monkeys...Help!  How would Simian know about the Houston Chronicle?  Is it a big paper? I have never heard of it, heck I haven't heard of most here in Ohio! Just the really big ones, Columbus, Akron, Cleveland and the local ones!  TIA

Google? LOL  I have my thoughts as to how Simian would know this. It would be the person he knew that told him this...if Simian is who we think...

In the context of the original post, seems I remember that TexasBelle was relaying information she had read in the Houstin Chronicle.

I think you are correct.  Le Monde is a French daily that has a huge subscription list.  I think it was a comparison to numbers.


Thanks Truthseeker and Lala's...point taken...in context...I am reading it now...LOL


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Silverfox on June 18, 2008, 09:31:11 AM
hmmmm....

a Mansur/PVDS connection through Leito?  ******* saying PVDS and Mansur may be part of the same cartel?

Does this start to sound like deja vu?

Or is this too long of a reach..???


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 18, 2008, 10:52:11 AM
hmmmm....

a Mansur/PVDS connection through Leito?  ******* saying PVDS and Mansur may be part of the same cartel?

Does this start to sound like deja vu?

Or is this too long of a reach..???

Good Afternoon to you Silverfox...not too long of a reach....can you tie in a Florida connection....or is that too long of a reach? LOL

Though I did read a post that said that PVDS was instumental in some Mansurs being extradicted. I thought that explained Jossy's disdain for both Joran and Paulus! Have not seen anything else other than that one post, and only did a quick search on it, and don't recall who the poster was. Will see if I can find it, and info on the relatives that were extradicted.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Rob on June 18, 2008, 12:16:57 PM
hmmmm....

a Mansur/PVDS connection through Leito?  ******* saying PVDS and Mansur may be part of the same cartel?

Does this start to sound like deja vu?

Or is this too long of a reach..???

I'm pretty sure they are both in a cartel, I'm just not sure it's the same cartel. I believe PVDS is linked to the Norte Valle Cartel (this cartel has been pretty well busted up over the last year or so) and Mansur is his own cartel.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 18, 2008, 06:15:58 PM
hmmmm....

a Mansur/PVDS connection through Leito?  ******* saying PVDS and Mansur may be part of the same cartel?

Does this start to sound like deja vu?

Or is this too long of a reach..???

You are only reaching across the room in here...several monkeys have information that implicates various people in this cartel.  It certainly makes you wonder, doesn't it?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Rob on June 18, 2008, 06:45:04 PM
say you were part of a cartel and needed a base to operate. You need an area that removes you from the locale. In a sense you are in one place and the cartel's base is located somewhere else. So, you have autonomy in the areas you live and have other legitimate businesses. Follow me so far?

now who lives on Aruba and in Florida? and who owns three islands?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Silverfox on June 19, 2008, 07:33:45 AM
Rob if you are suggesting a "mansur" connection -- to include it's spokesman (Jossy) then you and I are on the same page...

I like Jossy for what he has tried to do -- but to me is is "Dirty Hand" because he has always been in a position to break this case wide open (but somehow falls short) -- including the latest "shoe" debate...

This entire thing is all about power and control.

It is not the first time that a Mansur has been connected to drugs and money laundering -- right?

and the political parties... the elections...

and the children on the elite -- what do they do for entertainment on such a small island with such a small population where the economy is run my the mob...????

Nat was in the wrong place at the wrong time and the cartels are involved and covered it up -- or thought they did, anyway...

PVDS was at that casino... The supreme court also placed him with two contacts direct with Nat... come on folks, do we need a road map here?  PVDS was more involved than what people might think and I still feel he was there... right there when "something bad happened" -- as were a lot of rich kids -- and maybe some rich dads as well ---

but the connections here are like a spider web --- tag one strand and the entire network ripples alerting the spider...

There is bad politics there and drug and money laundering cartels -- and all the bad and evil things that the mob can generate in an area that is volatile to national security... The crime bosses are playing both ends against the middle --- that is why bodies are washing ashore and why one body -- Nats is in never never land --

All it takes is one person -- maybe Melody? to have ethics, feelings, a conscience?

Jossy ? Well he is the reporter that could break this all open.  He knew and walked along side of Beticoe... He knows all houses and he works them all... but his family has a history and this makes his hands dirty cuz he could fix things if he really wants -- he is the 4th estate... he knows the rich, the poor and the faithful... he has the power of the pen... he only needs to let it fry those who need fried...

but, if it is his own cartel that is in trouble (remember, the cartels compete -- in a war against each other...) then his loyalties are splayed... he is torn... power depends on who controls what... then Nat is really nothing to him except his own conscience... He knows about the shoe... He knows about PVDS... the judges... Rudy...

And he has relatives who are part of the "younger" generation -- the kids... the friends of Joran and Oduber and Croes... it is all in the blood -- and blood is thicker than water...

the entire house of cards needs to be taken down...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 19, 2008, 08:46:02 AM
Good Afternoon …You forgot something Silverfox…the meeting in Washington between the Aruban delegates and  US officials! Why was the family not permitted to attend this meeting? Why was Jean Akers at Joran’s release festivities? Why does everything lead us back to Florida?

Why did Shango and Simian post? Why did some of these others posters, that we have found out about post?  Why when we follow these names and addresses around the internet do we keep coming to dead ends and garbage information. Why do some of these peeps only exist on the internet??? Why do some of us feel we are being watched? Are the Arubans really clever enough to put a cover-up of this magnitude together on their own?

Why are the Kalpoes and Joran so cocky? Where is all the money coming from to support Joran’s lifestyle and the Kalpoes court case?  Why has the court case in California not been dismissed?

JMO…Nobody in Aruba is going to talk. The house of cards in Aruba is not going to fall. We will never know the truth, though I hope and pray that Natalee’s family does or will.  There won’t be any books or movies exposing the corruption in Aruba concerning this case. I doubt that any of the original FBI documents will ever see the light of day. And sadly there will never be Justice for Natalee!









Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Helen Back on June 19, 2008, 11:19:16 AM
Good Afternoon …You forgot something Silverfox…the meeting in Washington between the Aruban delegates and  US officials! Why was the family not permitted to attend this meeting? Why was Jean Akers at Joran’s release festivities? Why does everything lead us back to Florida?

Why did Shango and Simian post? Why did some of these others posters, that we have found out about post?  Why when we follow these names and addresses around the internet do we keep coming to dead ends and garbage information. Why do some of these peeps only exist on the internet??? Why do some of us feel we are being watched? Are the Arubans really clever enough to put a cover-up of this magnitude together on their own?

Why are the Kalpoes and Joran so cocky? Where is all the money coming from to support Joran’s lifestyle and the Kalpoes court case?  Why has the court case in California not been dismissed?

JMO…Nobody in Aruba is going to talk. The house of cards in Aruba is not going to fall. We will never know the truth, though I hope and pray that Natalee’s family does or will.  There won’t be any books or movies exposing the corruption in Aruba concerning this case. I doubt that any of the original FBI documents will ever see the light of day. And sadly there will never be Justice for Natalee!









Sorry, Mum.  I must respectfully disagree.  Many nasty, tangled webs such as this one have been untangled, and I believe this one will be as well.  If I didn't believe that, I wouldn't be here. 

There will be Justice for Natalee, and the others who are missing.  I believe it's all related.  All my opinion.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on June 19, 2008, 01:04:49 PM
Texas Monkeys...Help!  How would Simian know about the Houston Chronicle?  Is it a big paper? I have never heard of it, heck I haven't heard of most here in Ohio! Just the really big ones, Columbus, Akron, Cleveland and the local ones!  TIA

Google? LOL  I have my thoughts as to how Simian would know this. It would be the person he knew that told him this...if Simian is who we think...



maybe the Simian is in the news business? he scrutinizes media outlets.....but sings the praises of one......in Aruba


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: CapsLockWizard on June 19, 2008, 01:35:05 PM
Lala's

Natalee was taken to an "event"

It all makes sense...

All those names who were floated out there and interrogated were interrogated because they were in attendance at the "event" ... No other explanation really fits...  The reason J2K become the primaries is because they were the last ones seen with her by the general public -- but the insiders?  Well, That entire ordeal....

Remember, "too many people would be hurt if the truth comes out?" Remember that?  That is because too many people were in attendance and actually know what happened.... from the very beginning -- which is why this cover-up is so widespread... too many fingers in the pie, relatives, connections -- from the Oduber boy to the Dompig boy etc., etc....

The reason all of us are spinning around from name to name is because all of us were correct in one form or another -- all these guys were involved and the 'adults" -- the parents had to be the ones to cover it up -- or they all fall, child/parent, child/parent.... etc...etc....

This is MUCH BIGGER than we ever imagined....


I agree Silverfox…and they had 10 days to put it all in place….and this is why I think Joran is untouchable...mispelt names, mixed up names, initials, addresses, addresses that don’t exist, buildings that weren’t built, maybe even fake pictures and tickle sites….from Aruba to Florida…what a tangled web!!!

I was going to post this when I saw your post….Take some Tylenol Lala’s….remembering a post that Caps made a while back about Freddy Alexander Zedan-Arambatzis Arends….

Freddy – Frederick Arends or Martina, guy in Kia on some sort of porn/video charges

Alexander – Gottenbos

Zedan – ? -still working on it?

Arambatzis – Ernesto

Arends – Max or Frederick





The order that I have is as follows

Freddy Martina, guy in Kia on some sort of porn/video charges[/color]

Alexander Gottenbos

Zedan ?

Arambatzis Ernesto

Max Arends 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 19, 2008, 01:51:24 PM
LaLa's - So, does this mean that Freddy's real name is Freddy Martina? 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 19, 2008, 02:13:47 PM
Thanks Caps for your response....Zedan is still a question mark?

IIRC, 'Freddy' only started to use this name in late August. Maybe some of the veteran Monkeys can recall when! TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 19, 2008, 02:19:12 PM
Texas Monkeys...Help!  How would Simian know about the Houston Chronicle?  Is it a big paper? I have never heard of it, heck I haven't heard of most here in Ohio! Just the really big ones, Columbus, Akron, Cleveland and the local ones!  TIA

Google? LOL  I have my thoughts as to how Simian would know this. It would be the person he knew that told him this...if Simian is who we think...



maybe the Simian is in the news business? he scrutinizes media outlets.....but sings the praises of one......in Aruba


Hi COLUMBO...nice to see you! So you don't think that Armin is Simian? Or do you think as I do that Simian and some other poster's were being 'fed' posts, via IM or email? TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 19, 2008, 02:30:25 PM
Lala's

Natalee was taken to an "event"

It all makes sense...

All those names who were floated out there and interrogated were interrogated because they were in attendance at the "event" ... No other explanation really fits...  The reason J2K become the primaries is because they were the last ones seen with her by the general public -- but the insiders?  Well, That entire ordeal....

Remember, "too many people would be hurt if the truth comes out?" Remember that?  That is because too many people were in attendance and actually know what happened.... from the very beginning -- which is why this cover-up is so widespread... too many fingers in the pie, relatives, connections -- from the Oduber boy to the Dompig boy etc., etc....

The reason all of us are spinning around from name to name is because all of us were correct in one form or another -- all these guys were involved and the 'adults" -- the parents had to be the ones to cover it up -- or they all fall, child/parent, child/parent.... etc...etc....

This is MUCH BIGGER than we ever imagined....


I agree Silverfox…and they had 10 days to put it all in place….and this is why I think Joran is untouchable...mispelt names, mixed up names, initials, addresses, addresses that don’t exist, buildings that weren’t built, maybe even fake pictures and tickle sites….from Aruba to Florida…what a tangled web!!!

I was going to post this when I saw your post….Take some Tylenol Lala’s….remembering a post that Caps made a while back about Freddy Alexander Zedan-Arambatzis Arends….

Freddy – Frederick Arends or Martina, guy in Kia on some sort of porn/video charges

Alexander – Gottenbos

Zedan – ? -still working on it?

Arambatzis – Ernesto

Arends – Max or Frederick





The order that I have is as follows

Freddy Martina, guy in Kia on some sort of porn/video charges[/color]

Alexander Gottenbos

Zedan ?

Arambatzis Ernesto

Max Arends 

Thanks my friend, take care.  ::MonkeyWink::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 19, 2008, 02:39:51 PM
LaLa's - So, does this mean that Freddy's real name is Freddy Martina? 

According to that beach tennis tournament that Joran and Freddy participated in last year or so...Freddy insisted they refer to him as Freddy Zedan.  In the PVs he is referred to as Zedan...even though the name Abrambatsiz was used by the media and ALE at one time.  Ernesto uses that last name and if Freddy was not a Zedan until he was told to stop using his brother/step-brother's name then there is a reason. Caps told Mum and myself there was no Zedans in Aruba.  Well that opened a whole new can of worms for us and we began digging.  Mum along with some our most intelligent monkeys have done really outstanding work tracking this stuff down.  They deserve kudos for all this work. My point is Ernesto is involved in all manner of shady dealings in Miami/North Bay Village.  Remember that place...North Bay Village?  That is the location of an address of Ernesto's as provided to us by Hotping that has since been found to not have been Ernesto's address but the future location of a set of expensive apartments.  As I understand it (please correct me monkeys if I have this wrong)  was not built when Ernesto used that address.  It's just more of the things that make you go hmmmmmm.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 19, 2008, 02:59:19 PM
The only Armatbatzis we have come up with in Aruba are Lilian Regina and Robby.  The only one in Venezuela is Robby, aged 51.

Only other connection to Venezuela is a Mayra Smalley – Arambatzis-Prada-Ribeiro, probably forgot a couple! She is tied to a Nicholas and Editha Arambatzis from Florida. She spent 12 or 25 years in Venezuela, depending on which article you read. She has a Greek father and a Dutch mother. Also has a son named Victor, 10 years old!

This is the only person I can connect to Ernesto as being his mother, from all the digging that has been done by the Monkeys on this. Ernesto is also associated with Nicholas and Editha and has a former address in Bradenton Fl.

This is the short version…heaps of stuff on this! Vms?…Hotping?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 19, 2008, 03:02:49 PM
The only Armatbatzis we have come up with in Aruba are Lilian Regina and Robby.  The only one in Venezuela is Robby, aged 51.

Only other connection to Venezuela is a Mayra Smalley – Arambatzis-Prada-Ribeiro, probably forgot a couple! She is tied to a Nicholas and Editha Arambatzis from Florida. She spent 12 or 25 years in Venezuela, depending on which article you read. She has a Greek father and a Dutch mother. Also has a son named Victor, 10 years old!

This is the only person I can connect to Ernesto as being his mother, from all the digging that has been done by the Monkeys on this. Ernesto is also associated with Nicholas and Editha and has a former address in Bradenton Fl.

This is the short version…heaps of stuff on this! Vms?…Hotping?



Oops!...Victor is 19...Here is the bio on Mayra and Victor.

http://letsmakeupwithmayra.com/Biographies.html




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 19, 2008, 03:11:42 PM
It all leads back to the U.S. and Florida...I can't help but think this cartel stuff is all related to our Florida connections.  When was Paulus in Miami?  That is the big question to me...if he was there and he was there at a particular time...then we may be connecting some dots as to who in Florida helped Paulus in Aruba.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Rob on June 19, 2008, 03:19:55 PM
Rob if you are suggesting a "mansur" connection -- to include it's spokesman (Jossy) then you and I are on the same page...

He's not the spokesman, but the president.

I like Jossy for what he has tried to do -- but to me is is "Dirty Hand" because he has always been in a position to break this case wide open (but somehow falls short) -- including the latest "shoe" debate...

I like what Jossy seems to have done also. But what has he really done? Translated some articles and buddied up with some posters... maybe to see what others are looking at??? Where is his expose` on the subject? and his paper investigates crime and drug trafficking. How could he NOT know what his brother was doing? answer - he knew - cause he must be part of it, but only much better insulated and smarter.

This entire thing is all about power and control.

This is totally right... it's not the Mansur's turn right now to be totally corrupt...the AVP is out of power. It's currently Oduber's time and Rudy's cronies to operate with impunity. The Mansurs had their run at the protected game. They want another shot - so silence it the order of the day.

It is not the first time that a Mansur has been connected to drugs and money laundering -- right?

Is there a Mansur not connected to illegal activities?

and the political parties... the elections...

They wait for their next turn when Eman or whoever gives them the control again. They're currently sitting ducks.

and the children on the elite -- what do they do for entertainment on such a small island with such a small population where the economy is run my the mob...????

They have their issues too. When your parents and their friends are not in power and you commit a crime - you go to jail as political pay back. When your group is in power you roll. This island is steeped in political power plays. That's why Oduber's paycheck does not matter to him... it's the POWER and the freebies and muscle that come with the job.

Nat was in the wrong place at the wrong time and the cartels are involved and covered it up -- or thought they did, anyway...

YES she was!! and yes they are. They have had to move to other areas under less scrutiny. They can't be happy.

PVDS was at that casino... The supreme court also placed him with two contacts direct with Nat... come on folks, do we need a road map here?  PVDS was more involved than what people might think and I still feel he was there... right there when "something bad happened" -- as were a lot of rich kids -- and maybe some rich dads as well ---

PVDS was in the casino and that is him on the video. No doubt. That alone should have had him in jail for life. He lied about his "contacts" with Natalee. Why lie if you have nothing to hide? He must have committed the crime of premeditated murder or he would not have been initially charged with that crime. That looks like the correct charge.

but the connections here are like a spider web --- tag one strand and the entire network ripples alerting the spider...

best analogy I have heard yet. Kudos to you SF. Good one.

There is bad politics there and drug and money laundering cartels -- and all the bad and evil things that the mob can generate in an area that is volatile to national security... The crime bosses are playing both ends against the middle --- that is why bodies are washing ashore and why one body -- Nats is in never never land --

what can I say to that - you're right!

All it takes is one person -- maybe Melody? to have ethics, feelings, a conscience?

you and I will be long dead before one decent person comes forward. It's sad that it's left up to internet posters to try to find anything / something. You know the FBI / DFI / NFI are not doing anything... or they would have already done it. And the fact that the corrupt investigation has not even been examined tells me that this is how they would like it to end. Aruba moves on and finds new tourists in 2010 (the five year plan) where no one remembers the crap they pulled. Remember there is always someone incredibly stoopid that will not research or take the time to find out about their destination. Aruba counts on that stupidity.

Jossy ? Well he is the reporter that could break this all open.  He knew and walked along side of Beticoe... He knows all houses and he works them all... but his family has a history and this makes his hands dirty cuz he could fix things if he really wants -- he is the 4th estate... he knows the rich, the poor and the faithful... he has the power of the pen... he only needs to let it fry those who need fried...

I would hope that with Jossy's health concerns, he has written it all down to be released upon his death. Otherwise, I doubt he will make known what he knows. He has held back too many aspects for me to believe he is going to all of a sudden tell all. He has had every opportunity to tell what he knows and remains silent. Let me ask you - has remaining silent helped Natalee (God Rest Her Soul)? All of those that have their secrets - has remaining silent and protecting the info helped? I don't think so, but that's just my opinion.

but, if it is his own cartel that is in trouble (remember, the cartels compete -- in a war against each other...) then his loyalties are splayed... he is torn... power depends on who controls what... then Nat is really nothing to him except his own conscience... He knows about the shoe... He knows about PVDS... the judges... Rudy...

exposure is what all cartels fear most. They need to operate in the dark. Shining the light on the cartel makes your other legitimate businesses go up in smoke. No one wants to do legitimate business with seemingly corrupt people. I imagine he knows more than we do, but what - I can not tell, because I do not know what he knows.

And he has relatives who are part of the "younger" generation -- the kids... the friends of Joran and Oduber and Croes... it is all in the blood -- and blood is thicker than water...

Natalee is not their relative. She is an outsider and a threat even in death. Indians circle the wagons

the entire house of cards needs to be taken down...

the question is - HOW? and WHO?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 19, 2008, 03:32:57 PM
Anyone recall why Jossy was denied a visa and then I recall they issued one later for health reasons? he has family, a home and businesses in Florida and it seems strange that they would reject his visa application! Must have come and go plenty of times, what made this time different?

Great post Rob.. ::MonkeyDance::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 19, 2008, 03:41:46 PM
At this point for the house of cards to fall someone will have to make the ultimate sacrifice and risk their life to tell what they know.  Hard to do when a natural instinct is survival. Survival of you and your family. Joran has a 'get out of jail free' card and he is using it every day. We can only hope there is an expiration date on it and it's coming soon. Until they no longer want to protect Joran this will never be solved.  Paulus has control and he doesn't seem to be worried about his own family's welfare.  That tells me he most likely doesn't have to because of what he knows. The Sloots are the cause of all Aruba's misery...they continue to tolerate it for reasons that baffle the mind.  In the grand scheme of drug cartels and such, the Sloots should be a liability not an asset.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 19, 2008, 03:59:34 PM
At this point for the house of cards to fall someone will have to make the ultimate sacrifice and risk their life to tell what they know.  Hard to do when a natural instinct is survival. Survival of you and your family. Joran has a 'get out of jail free' card and he is using it every day. We can only hope there is an expiration date on it and it's coming soon. Until they no longer want to protect Joran this will never be solved.  Paulus has control and he doesn't seem to be worried about his own family's welfare.  That tells me he most likely doesn't have to because of what he knows. The Sloots are the cause of all Aruba's misery...they continue to tolerate it for reasons that baffle the mind.  In the grand scheme of drug cartels and such, the Sloots should be a liability not an asset.


Right again, Lala's! Joran does what he does, because he can and he is untouchable...

Going back to Cap’s post…A combination of peeps that know what happened to Natalee – Freddy, the video guy, just not whom we thought.  Ernesto, he was there? Alexander, Gottenbos – which one, the elder or Koen or Sander. Arends, Max – is he related to Jossy?  And we are left with the mysterious Zedan….that was adopted by 'Freddy' in august 2005!

So who is Zedan...an American, Dutch or Aruban, Elder or a child of an elder, friend of Ernesto's, Max or the Gottenbos?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: always 1 on June 19, 2008, 11:50:01 PM
That was reallly interesting Rob.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 20, 2008, 04:27:15 AM
Hi Finn...nice to see you...Do you recall anything about Paulus' trip to Florida, early in the case?

And do you recall anything about a poster anbennett?

Thanks in advance....


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: finngirl on June 20, 2008, 04:58:11 AM

this post is a clusterf***
but so was the summer of 2005

we were being fed BS by
uber creepy Arlene Schipper
Ruben rubberlegs Trappenberg
Tito didshenotaskforit Lacle
and ... that skank Julia Renfro

info was coming from numerous sources ...
and we each get to decide for ourselves
which sources were BS/which were honestly mistaken

Tito came off w/ Lorenzo Wever at SM
when he was asked about Lorenzo van Rijn
and then Guido Wever surfaced as well ...

the name thang on one shitty eiland
is like playing wheel of fortune

some reporters had trouble w/ exotic/foreign names:
there was one broadcast where Arambatzis
was pronounced on-air as Aaron Batsis

the name Arandashi/Arendashi posted below was another
(mis)interpretation of Arambatzis
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

info was also circulated by phone
and (mis)hearing could result in (mis)information ...
which is why I still wonder if FA was heard as SA

SHOCKtheMONKEY Says:
June 23rd, 2005 at 11:39 am
the boys are innocent. only witness. co and sa are key.

was sK's question re SA prompted by that?

or ... does co = colombia/sa = south america?
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

why was the last name Arends associated
w/ Freddy at one time?

early FP posts (checkme or aia?) mentioned that
LvR/Maxito Arendsz were brothers ...
perhaps too many well-meaning cooks
were stirring the broth

but then there's the fact that Maxito's BFF,
Andry Lopez aka "grumpy", webmaster of the boostunit site
from the Aruba Speed Shop owned by Maxito Arendsz,
came to SM posting as Peeps ...
denying that he/Maxito knew Lorenzo ...
altho he did happen to bring us the LvR/van photo

a little while later, sandraK, while defending LvR ...
said that he "runs w/ Maxito Arendsz and Orlando Bello
from Aruba Speed Shop"

when confronted w/ the denial above from Peeps
and asked how she "knew" what she knew ...
she said (referring to Andry Lopez/Peeps):

WE PM  :wink:
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ 

was there a 4th arrest that friday/that weekend?

some of the detail sounds like it relates to NH
and some sounds like it relates to the
underage girl gang-bang video/previous date rapes

does Freddy-it-has-something-to-do-with-a-car
relate to NH or to the other cases?

DNA from the Sloot residence? WTF?

Natalee's uncle/Paul (quoted below) sounds confused
and I know I am
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

the 6:14pm post below clearly shows that
he was listed in the Buki Di as
Freddy Arambatzis in august 2005
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

Fri Aug 26, 2005

4:49 pm Sooz:
If Geraldo was right about the videos, then this could eventually lead to Mr. Pink and all that smut about internet videos, right?

4:55 pm sunmoonstars:
This press release came down from the prosecutors. This is the email from the prosecutor to MSNBC

They are in custody based on the same suspicions as before.
They are suspected of the primary criminal act of together with other people committing premeditated murder.
Alternately, together with other people murdering somebody.
More alternately, rob a person of her liberty with fatal consequences.
Even more alternately, raping somebody.

Aside from these suspicions against these two brothers, there are new suspicions which at this point the prosecutor is not commenting on. To arrest the Kalpoe brothers, there had to be new facts and circumstances, that is the case!

4:59 pm AZLady:
Who are the other two in custody, besides the Kalpoes? Freddy and someone else?

5:05 pm AZLady:
Arubagirl, were the Kalpoes and two others arrested? Or the Kalpoes and one other guy? I can't find accurate info.

5:06 pm klaasend:
No...only Freddy. Not sure if there's more, I'm thinking not.

5:06 pm sunmoonstars:
Catherine Crier Fri

Based on the same suspicions as before. There are new suspicions, or they couldn't re arrest the K brothers.

Art Wood: We have known for a long time that the LE have statements from these boys. They know where Natalee is.
 
Freddy Arandashi?? Uses the name Freddy Arends, he is a close friend and neighbor of Jorans.

5:07 pm arubagirl:
AZlady, on the radio said that four new arrests were made, but then I heard it was only three.

Anyway, I heard the name of one guy, but I don't know if it's right or not.

5:08 pm sunmoonstars:
AG: Art Wood is saying Freddy Arandashi?? also says he goes by Freddy Arends.

5:09 pm  arubagirl:
I think it's not Arends. I'll check it out on Monday.

5:10 pm DT:
The ex-girlfriend of Joran, Melody or whatever, is saying on RWV that the guy's name is Freddy Zedan.

5:12 pm sunmoonstars:
AG: They said a neighbor and friend of Jorans. Does that help?

5:14 pm arubagirl:
Well, if he is a neighbour and lives in the same neighbourhood (montanja), then I can check, hold on.

5:14 pm barbiegirl23:
This Freddy is listed as a doubles tennis partner of Joran in the Aruban paper of Sept 2004...

5:15 pm arubagirl:
There is an Arends that lives at Montanja... Check the other last names.

5:16 pm arubagirl:
No person named Zedan in the phone book, not that it means that he doesn't exist, just not in the phone book.

5:17 pm arubagirl:
Nor Arandashi / Arendashi.

5:17 pm klaasend:
I'm thinking it's Freddy Arends: Blue shirt on left - middle with cap on right.
 
(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/klaasend/freddycopy.jpg)

5:19 pm arubagirl:
Yes that's who I thought it was as well. Why don't these things happen on a Friday? Now I have to wait a whole weekend to find out more. BLECH!

5:22 pm DT:
Jossy: We don't know that he was arrested in relation to this case, though he was questioned about it at the beginning. We have heard that he had alibi that said he was with Joran that night.

Dan Riehl said earlier that the Freddy guy is the same person who was staying at Joran's apartment that night.

5:22 pm whodunit:
Does HE  live at Aruba Racquet Club?

5:24 pm fluffy monkey:
Geraldo said that this guy was a fake alibi and faked that he stayed with Joran that night.

5:24 pm nancy drew:
http://www.aeromodelers.sr.org/david/am28sep04.pdf  28 sept 2004
B-Doubles team Freddy Zedan/Joran van der Sloot beat Peter Villevoix/Lex Burgman in a surprise sweep

5:25 pm arubagirl:
No, owner of the place told me the homes are only used as vacation homes by wealthy tourists.

5:26 pm fluffy monkey:
Wonder if "someone" has a key to one of them....

5:28 pm whodunit:
Hmmm...maybe it could at least explain what the boys were doing late that night (3am) near the ARC. Maybe meeting his tennis partner.......hmmmmm

5:32 pm odds on:
Who - For what it's worth, the AM Digitel article (link posted above)about the September 2004 tennis tounament that jvds and Freddy Z won took place at the Aruba Racquet Club. Coincidences abound.

5:42 pm HannieC:
if there is a 4th person arrested then i think it`s significant that nobody seems to know who that person is nor his initials or name...Makes me wonder who that is.....(and then i`m not thinking of Paulus). BTW...

5:44 pm bondia/Julia Renfro:
Freddy Z.

Freddy's middle name is Alexander and it is customary to never use somebody’s last name in Aruba until they have been charged.

The rules were obviously broken in Natalee's case as it has been a free for all of accusations since the Beginning.

6:00 pm Port Valerie:
New Greta Wire emailed at 5:41 PM:

What has caught my attention most is the timeline we have pieced together. From Satish's lawyer the other night on the show, we learned that someone was on the Internet at the Kalpoe residence from 2 a.m. to 3 a.m. Why did that person get off the Internet at 3 a.m.? Note that 3 a.m. is the exact time that Joran van der Sloot's second call went to Deepak's cell phone (the first was 2:40 a.m.)

Stay tuned. We will have more tonight.

6:01 pm sunmoonstars:
Catherine Crier/Friday

Crier: Can you tell me anything about this Freddy?

Jossy: We hear 2 versions: The official press release that the prosecution put out did not mention him at all. People are under the impression that his arrest may be related to another case. He was arrested in the beginning with relation to this same case. There is no mention from the police in regards to this third man. Third man is a friend of them, partied with them, many pics with him. He was questioned in the beginning in regards to the Natalee case.

Crier: Do you have any info as to his whereabouts the night Natalee disappeared?

Jossy: I hear his alibi is that he was with Joran

6:02 pm WonderWoman:
ARAMBATZIS-RODRIGUEZ ALBERT, LILIAN REGINA, MONTANJA 39-F

6:02 pm AZLady:
I found an ARAMBATZIS-RODRIGUEZ, ALBERT and LILIAN REGINA who live in MONTANJA.
http://www.arubachamber.com/LC%20KLEIN%2005-06-2005.htm

6:07 pm klaasend:
So why is Bondia saying the last name starts with a Z ?

6:08 pm arubagirl:
I have no idea. I'm guessing that Bon Dia is checking back with the group.

6:09 pm Shell:
Maybe the stop at the other bar that was mentioned was to pick up Freddy? Just thinking

6:14 pm RobertJ:
BINGO! Directory listing: Arambatzis, Freddy. Aruba. I've got his e-mail and his TICKLE site too: Freddy Locoman Pimp

6:16 pm NativeLingo:
ARAMBATZIS-RODRIGUEZ ALBERT, LILIAN REGINA, MONTANJA 39-F

could be either Venezuelan or Colombian....only they use 2 last names here...

6:19 pm DT:
Jossy says: Freddy arrested on charges of taking and selling pictures of young naked girls. He was questioned initially in the NH case.

6:21 pm WidgetTheMidget:
Dont Be Surprised If What Happened To Natalee Was Recorded ........

6:21 pm bondia/Julia Renfro:
As we have already told RED, SM usually knows what it going on before MSM and 99% of Aruba. Based on the Tennis match from AM Digital and the initials givin by the police F.A. (and usually most people in Aruba have at least 3 if not 4 initials in thier name) We were told that Joran has a friend named Freddy Alexander.

Since Jossy was the one who found the girls with the rape accusations, we are sure that he has the right Name since it is his find.

ARAMBATZIS in Montana sounds like a winner! Thanks for the Good work Monkeys.

6:25 pm DT:
Aruban attorney: I doubt that it is a coincidence this guy was arrested at the same time and lived near Joran.

6:28 pm DT:
Aruban Attorney: It is possible that the Kalpoes stated Joran sexually assaulted Natalee, and were still released.

6:31 pm NativeLingo:
DT, it wasn't a coincidence...

6:32 pm nancy drew:
They said it on Abrams...the part about Freddy knowing about the disposal of the body...

6:42 pm sandraK:
Freddy Cuz..Lissette' ...lives..in Usa.... her Mom maybe is... Rebeca Zedan (Female, 52) Location: Venezuela. his aunty?? or something?

6:43 pm tcumom:
Does anyone remember Geraldo's comments looooong time ago about porn stuff and pics? Think I'm remembering correctly.....just a comment.

6:45 pm DT:
Yeah I brought this up earlier, it would be insane if Geraldo turned out to be right. I can't think of one person who believed him when said this.

6:46 pm cancon:
indeed I remember it clear as day, what was puzzling that Geraldo never mentioned it again, not to my recollection, until perhaps today, maybe the Aruban LE contacted him and asked him to hush up? and for once one of Geraldo's wild statements could be coming true.........

6:51 pm writenow:
If Freddy has been brought in and Freddy, Joran & Jaime Carrasquilla were all best friends, is Jaime next to be arrested? BTW Satish is now calling himself the King of bling bling on his tickle site. Good grief. Maybe he's getting the bling bling from selling pics of naked girls.

7:17 pm friend of monkey:
but Vanderstraten does have a son jorans age? or not known?

7:18 pm HannieC:
I believe his youngest son is 24 and the oldest 33 or 34

7:31 pm sandrak:
Rebeca Zedan (Female, 52) Location: Venezuela. Aunty ??

7:33 pm bondia/Julia Renfro:
WRITENOW said earlier that Jaime would be arrested! Are you part of the ALE or a clairvoyant of a Monkey PI. Who can spell his last name right?

7:37 pm sandrak:
Jaime Carrasquilla

7:38 pm the big hammer:
1. The 2:40am call is the link w/ video to k residence to download. Call may have linked to assault live? Depends on duration of call.

2. 3:10 am is the voice call to say: "something's wrong -- come get me."

3. From k2 residence, numerous 3rd parties could link in to view the 2:40am "show."

7:39 pm Shell:
Tito was listed on that tickle site of Freddy. When I looked at it when RobertJ first posted, Ruben Trapenberg was on there also, then when I went back a while later, his photo (RT) was gone. Maybe I don't understand how tickle sites work.

7:39 pm bondia/Julia Renfro:
Good Try SANDRA K, but I have another spelling, but I have been wrong before. Rumors are strong that he will be picked up tomorrow.

7:43 pm bondia/Julia Renfro:
The Rumor on Aruba was that four were arrested today, but the police confirmed only 3, possibly another tomorrow. We spoke to Jaime and he thinks it is about some pictures that were taken in April, but they were deleted after the girl asked them to. He said they weren't illicit, but she didn't like them. They have all continued a friendship relationship since and he is surprised that she would be complaining now. Jaime also lives in Montana. To make it clear, he didn't even know that anyone has made a complaint, but that is the only thing he could think anyone could complain about. Since then, the girl has remained friends with all of them - even been to family parties at Joran's house.

7:53 pm sandraK:
bondia, Anyone with..."SA"..... as Nic?

7:55 pm  writenow:
You're funny bondia. Monkey ALE PI clairvoyant. My new title. I posed it as a question not a fact.
 
You tell me -- are they going to arrest Jaime? he's tight with Freddy and Joran. Makes sense he's in this, too.

7:55 pm cancon:
well I thought he said 2:30 am, could the assault have taken place before 2:40 am, 2:30 am they just transmitted the video file at 2:40 am under a pretence which would mean real premeditation if they had already worked out their alibis in advance here........

you can tape and save a video file on those phones too, may not have been live........

7:56 pm bondia/Julia Renfro:
Hi SANDRAK

It was spelled out for us as Carasquia, but since he made his own tickle site, I will give him credit that he knows how to spell his own name, although...

As for SA - we would need more details.

8:00 pm sandrak:
Time will tell ....

8:13 pm crazybabyborg:
Jossy: Freddy provided an alibi for Joran

8:14 pm crazybabyborg:
Jossy: my info from our sources in the LE is that 3 girls came forward with statements of being date drugged and raped

8:15 pm writenow:
Oh, one more thing.

Jaime lives on the same street as the van der Sloots. Jaime Carrasquilla/Carrasquilla, Acuna Omar/Montanja 232

8:19 pm suz3nscar:
Sometimes I think Nancy Grace is nuts....just came back on the air with Elvis' Jailhouse Rock playing

8:21 pm san:
On NG lawyer stated Freddy won't be able to have a lawyer for several days

8:22 pm sooz:
NG says CNN is trying to confirm the arrest of a 4th suspect. Did I miss something?

8:22 pm fluffy monkey:
Freddie takes pictures for the Pimp Gang" says the guy on NG

8:24 pm sooz:
OMG!! NG is going to tick off the Arubans again. She looked straight at the camera and said "Attention Aruban police. Separate cells!"

8:27 pm onesillymonkey:
NG - Kalpoe bros. not being questioned right away. Letting them sit, being informed that they will be prosecuted to the full extent of the law for the seriousness of crimes they are accused of - this is a method to induce fear into them in order to get them to more easily talk when the interrogations begin. They are being careful not to try and force information out of them that can later be thrown out due to a forced confession.

Fourth suspect IS in connection with NH case.

8:32 pm pj:
No one knows anything about a fourth suspect being arrested. I think someone said maybe tomorrow.

9:03 pm san:
from tv for those w/o the channel: Freddy's involvment in the case is with a car.

9:05 pm I hear shango:
Helen Lejuez said Freddy....physical evidence regarding the car......

9:06 pm nancydrew:
Hannity and Colmes....

Helen: says this is considered a gang rape...Freddy was brought in due to the car (which car???) .

Paul Reynolds: First time he's heard the term "gang rape"

H/C: Is this a homicide?

Paul Reynolds: Joran said Deepak raped, murdered Natalee

Helen: 60 Days now for the boys brought in today. The prosecutor told her this has to do with murder and rape. She has more info not from the prosecutor, and it is quite secure.

9:08 pm arubagirl:
So much for the gang-rape being 'secret', which my source told me it was.

9:10 pm justinsmama:
Is that what you were going to reveal around the 4th? Or part of it, anyway?

9:10 DT:
Do you know anything more about this?

9:11 pm arubagirl:
no, this I heard today.

9:11 pm little miss:
Secret from who?

9:12 pm arubagirl:
No, nothing more, only about the gang-rape taking place.

9:13 pm DT:
Does this involve all of the boys, or just the three?

9:14 pm friend of monkey:
freddy lives behind jorans apartment...on FOX

9:14 pm arubagirl:
All of them.

9:16 pm nancydrew:
Hannity and Colmes. Reporter/Aruba... It's a "commission based crime." Freddy lives in the neighborhood.

9:20 pm I hear shango:
jossy said there are a total of 6 girls who have come forward....not including Natalee.....

9:22 pm sooz:
Hmmm, another vote for a 4th new suspect in jail today.

Hannity and Colmes transcript: Friday August 27

Helen: Him (Freddie A) and another detainee in jail right now. Freddie is a friend of Jorans and has something to do with the car. According to my (Helen’s) sources, he is part of the “gang” and what we are getting is that he is involved in the rape case and it has to do with the car. I have other news that I haven’t yet confirmed, another young man who hasn’t yet been brought before the judge.

Uncle: That is the first time I have heard that phrase used (gang rape) We have heard sexual assault.

9:26 pm candygirl:
Maybe its freddy's place they went back to? I sure hope the LE is doing a search there!

9:32 pm fluffymonkey:
Larry King Live, Friday August 26, 2005

Dave Holloway : We were concerned about September 4 date coming up but now it looks like Joran is probably not going to be let go. FBI called and told us about Kalpoe brothers and Freddy. Prosecutor is very confident.

Steve Holloway (uncle): Very happy they arrested K2, maybe we can find out a little more.

Harris Faulkner (Current Affair): Polis said FBI made a difference and gave them confidence. The polis were very involved and busy in keeping up with K2.
 
Cardoza: Young women have come forward saying K2 were involved in using date rape drugs Now police can turn up the heat even though it didn’t have to do with NH case.

9:38 pm I hear shango:
polis chief was not overhead saying how can i do this to my best friend's son....he was on national tv saying it...I saw it with my own eyes.

9:41 pm peaches:
Vinda just said they collected DNA from the VDS property.

9:51pm margaritaville:
CNN just mentioned the Tickle sites!!!

9:55 pm peaches:
Harris Faulkner just said they keyed into the boys from the start and got their cell phone #s from their Tickle sites. Called 'em up.

9:56 pm fluffymonkey:
Harris: Current Affair pulled info from TICKLE!!!!! Three guys described themselves as having healthy sex lives (Joran, particularly) Thinks it is relevant to look at lifestyle, says tickle is explicit, AND THE WAY CURRENT AFFAIR GOT IN TOUCH WITH JORAN THE FIRST TIME WAS FROM HIS CELL PHONE NUMBER ON TICKLE

10:01 pm friend of monkey:
early on a gang bang tape w/ joran and a 14 yr old was mentioned here..

10:03 pm kackylacky:
yes by Geraldo...............and we all scoffed.

10:28 pm crazybabyborg
Anyone know what the nature of the alibi was that Freddy supplied for Joran?

10:30 pm DT:
From what I understand, he said he stayed at Joran's apartment that night, which is something he and other friends often do. He claimed Joran got home at a certain time, and that he said he had met an American girl, but that nothing sexual had taken place.

10:41 pm sleddogs:
"At the beginning of the show they were talking about Freddy being linked somehow due to the car. Not sure which car...but, they referred to the info from the gardener... "

If I remember right a while back when they first brought the gardener in wasn't there a problem with him not being able to identify one of the K2's? Maybe that was because the other person in the car that night was later identified as Freddy.

10:42 pm kackylacky:
Jossy said on Abrams this afternoon, that freddy told ALE he was "with" joran that night...........and that was all that was said about it. The usual comments about that not being too smart was what followed.......no further detail. But I am thinking freddy may have tried to alibi joran for the time after the HI drop off.............which begs the question.........why did they arrest steve for giving deepak an alibi, but did not arrest freddy for doing the same for joran. Interesting.............
 
10:48 pm pj:
Yet Joran went to school bragging about having sex, am I right?

10:49 pm kackylacky:
when in fact, both of them could have been with her at joran's or at freddy's......................Vinda said tonight that DNA was collected at joran's........I didn't hear if she said what kind or much more than it was collected.

If, according to Helen, freddy is also attached to this case because of a car............could freddy have provided joran with transportation (remember the walk with only one shoe line) or moving the body?



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 20, 2008, 05:12:24 AM
Finn...you are a gem!!!...Had it on my list to look for that aeromodeler's link this morning!!!!

That is where the name Zedan was found, after Melody's named him at RWV then input from SandraK and Bondia...and we have some beach tennis pics from 2004....beach tennis...Hmmmm...checkme...and used to make model aeroplanes....

Coincidence that Tommy Pooch and Ernesto Arambatzis were both in Aruba in May of 2005........



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on June 20, 2008, 05:48:32 PM
Texas Monkeys...Help!  How would Simian know about the Houston Chronicle?  Is it a big paper? I have never heard of it, heck I haven't heard of most here in Ohio! Just the really big ones, Columbus, Akron, Cleveland and the local ones!  TIA

Google? LOL  I have my thoughts as to how Simian would know this. It would be the person he knew that told him this...if Simian is who we think...



maybe the Simian is in the news business? he scrutinizes media outlets.....but sings the praises of one......in Aruba


Hi COLUMBO...nice to see you! So you don't think that Armin is Simian? Or do you think as I do that Simian and some other poster's were being 'fed' posts, via IM or email? TIA


"the man on the inside will call soon"

note: The Simian spends much of his time "confirming"

he anonymizes to protect "sources"


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 20, 2008, 10:10:13 PM
Texas Monkeys...Help!  How would Simian know about the Houston Chronicle?  Is it a big paper? I have never heard of it, heck I haven't heard of most here in Ohio! Just the really big ones, Columbus, Akron, Cleveland and the local ones!  TIA

Google? LOL  I have my thoughts as to how Simian would know this. It would be the person he knew that told him this...if Simian is who we think...



maybe the Simian is in the news business? he scrutinizes media outlets.....but sings the praises of one......in Aruba


Hi COLUMBO...nice to see you! So you don't think that Armin is Simian? Or do you think as I do that Simian and some other poster's were being 'fed' posts, via IM or email? TIA


"the man on the inside will call soon"

note: The Simian spends much of his time "confirming"

he anonymizes to protect "sources"


Phone…but who was calling? TIA

Lala’s…….


 ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyDance::


 ::cartwheel:: ::cartwheel:: ::cartwheel::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 21, 2008, 09:35:18 AM
I don't know if this is significant because I can't read Pap.  This is an obituary from a Curacao newspaper, dated December 14, 2006.  The name jumped out at me.

MARTINA
Crismo Cornelio
Mihó konosí komo Shonki
A laga atras su mayornan Felipe i Lucita Martina, kasá Eugenia Martina-Obispo, yunan Arlene i Oswin Martis, Sherneida i Rupert Minguel, Cedric Martina, Frederick Martina, Ericson Martina tur ku nan famia, rumannan Irma Hoyer, Cosme, Siegfried, Henry, Henky, Satulin, Donald, Idaline Martina, Mairis Martina i Franklyn Alexander. Akto di entiero ta djasabra 16 desèmber 4or for di El Señorial pa santana Sta. Rosa. Bishita 1or-3.30or. Promé ku entiero tin un respòns 3.30or na El Señorial.

http://laprensacur.com/content/node/5155


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 21, 2008, 10:02:51 AM
I think CAPS told us that Freddy Martina's parents were Wilfred and Nubia.  I found this Curacao obituary from September 29, 2006.

VEERKAMP
Petrus Eduard (repentino)
Mihó konosí komo Piet
A laga atras su kasá Norma Veerkamp-Louisa, rumannan Johan Veerkamp i Cornelia Veerkamp-Pieternella, Wilhelmina Veerkamp, Gerardus Kirindongo, Swinda Kirindongo, Vilma Otto, Elina Kirindongo i Wilfred Martina, Elio tur ku nan yunan i famia. Akto di entiero ta djasabra 30 sèptèmber for di El Señorial pa santana Roodeweg. Bishita 1or, siguí pa un s.s. di misa 3.30or na El Señorial.

http://laprensacur.com/content/taxonomy/term/7?from=270


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 21, 2008, 10:15:50 AM
I have no idea what this means, but the name Wilfred Martina is here again.


Sra. Isebia Seferina Molina-Winklaarmihó konosí komo Chichi di Tan

  añaSra. Isebia Seferina Molina-Winklaarmihó konosí komo Chichi di Tan Molinana nomber di su yunan: Vicenta (Nia) i Harold DammersAmbrosio (Broertje) i Marcela Molinanietunan: Gerard Dammers i Claudia Kingma (Hulanda), GeorgeDammers(Hulanda),Giovanni Dammers(Hulanda), Rhoda LisaMolina i Ingemar Martha (Kòrsou), Roderick Molina (Kòrsou) iIngemar MolinaBisanietunan: Dinzy Dammers, Fiona Ciciliarumannan: Pedro Winklaar i famia, Dorothea de Palm i famia(Kòrsou)Kuñanan i swa: Selma Winklaar, Kathryn St. Jago, Chepe dePalmSubrinanan: Leticia Mercelina i famia, Nonoi Chirino i famia,Bubuchi Thielman i famia (Kòrsou), Hose Winklaar i famia(Aruba), Bubu Winklaar i famia (Kòrsou), Gloria Maria i famia(Kòrsou), Egon Winklaar i famia (Kòrsou), Maritza Winklaar i famia(Kòrsou), Pablo Winklaar i famia, Maria Winklaar, Luis Winklaari famia, Felipe Winklaar i famia, Carlos Winklaar i famia, NildaWinklaar (Aruba), Carla Winklaar, Alfonso Winklaar i famia, IrenaWinklaar i famia, Buchi Winklaar i famia, Shorombo Jacobs ifamia (Aruba), Ireno (Yuchi) Jacobs i famia (Aruba), EliataWinklaar, Rudy Winklaar, Baby Winklaar, Wilfred Martina i famia(Aruba), Wilson Martina i famia (Kòrsou), Frenklin Winklaar(Kòrsou), Papi Grandviel i famia (Ulanda)amiga: Merce Molina i famia, prima-primunan, komader- ikompadernan, ihánan i demas amiga- i amigunan, Aura i DoeiFinies, Flora i George Klaassen, besiñanan, grupo di SagradoKurason.Demas famia i konosínan: Winklaar, Molina, Dammers,Hoek, Maria, Martina, Grandviel, de Palm, Chirino, Mercelina,Thielman, Martis, Nicolaas, Thomas, Goeloe, Soliana, Evertsz,Frans, Mercera, St. Jago, Wanga, Janga, Cicilia, Albertus, Piar,Pourier, Paulina, Diaz, Boezem i Semeleer.Akto di entiero ta tuma lugá djahuebs 10 di yanuari saliendofor di misa San Bernardo na Playa pa santana katóliko. Tarisibí bishita di kondolensia for di 2’or na misa. Promé kuentiero tin un santu sakrifisio di misa.Despues di entiero NO por risibi bishita di kondolensia nakas.

http://72.14.205.104/search?q=cache:vG3Vzr-Uk8EJ:www.extrabon.com/edishon/edishon2002/extra2002-01-08.pdf+%22wilfred+martina%22+aruba&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=us


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 21, 2008, 10:32:09 AM
Could Karen be related to Freddy?  The nose is sure similar.  ::MonkeyHaHa::

MARTINA, Karen Theresa Paulina – Allegedly was in porn video taped by Freddy. Joran admits to having sex with her multiple times. Was named by JQK as a date rape victim of Joran, but Tacopina claims she has said it was consensual.

http://forum.fok.nl/topic/1124801



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 21, 2008, 11:45:58 AM
Could Karen be related to Freddy?  The nose is sure similar.  ::MonkeyHaHa::

MARTINA, Karen Theresa Paulina – Allegedly was in porn video taped by Freddy. Joran admits to having sex with her multiple times. Was named by JQK as a date rape victim of Joran, but Tacopina claims she has said it was consensual.

http://forum.fok.nl/topic/1124801




Hi SS...IIRC Caps couldn't find Karen.  I will check on Caps post, but remember him naming 2 friends, one he said was Rodriguez and corrected to something like Dominguez...not sure on spelling of the last one, but am positive on the Rodriguez....LOL...  I don't recall the parents, except I think Caps said the Dad was an ex-cop! I will find the post and repost.

Thanks Buckeye, Pita and vms on the Freddy pic...no name...go figure!!!!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 21, 2008, 12:42:24 PM
Is this the post that you're looking for?



 Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #2
« Reply #142 on: March 26, 2008, 04:57:38 AM » 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote from: MumInOhio on March 26, 2008, 04:27:34 AM
Quote from: CapsLockWizard on March 26, 2008, 03:46:22 AM
Quote from: CapsLockWizard on March 26, 2008, 03:43:53 AM
Hi all,

There was a freddy that was arrested in 2004 for making/ preparing the porn movie of a Teen Girl, He was in KIA for something else, I do think he supose to get a work with selimar and his father worked for Blue Team. His father is a High Ranking Official in the blue Team. I do remeber that he was in for leaving the stove on and trying  to burn the Girlreinds house. The Judge at that time, knowing his father give him house arrest but he break the house arrest and went out to party. The Girlfriend call the cops becuase he was out with other girls in Bahia and C&C. He was wearing a wig that night but the girlfriend did recognise him and call the cops.

He was sent to KIA and then let go.

will check, He was a friend of David Lung and Dominquez Reyes and Fred they were the friend of that Baseball Pitcher Ponson who slap a Judge in Aruba on the beach.

All these are beach bums with only thing in their head is to score.

DL, DR and FRED are heavely in XTC and trafficing.
 


correct the last name of Dominquez.



Thanks Caps...America's favorite passtime!

Does this 'Freddy' have a last name? Is he about 24 years old?....TIA


Now About freddy

Martina   Fred A        8/5/1980               Aruba
Martina   Wilfred E        6/12/1945              Bonaire

Fred Martina was the one that did make the porn film in Aruba. His Father is a big wig in the ALE. Both live Hooiberg 94F

Fred A , The A can be the lat name that the cops has given him and not to use his real last name to protect the father position
This is the family structure

These are the people living at the Address

Kock   Johannes J                 1/30/1972   Aruba               Hooiberg 94F
Kock, geb. Martina   Sandra                11/11/1970   Cali                Hooiberg 94FLaaf   Ashwin A                             6/1/1974                Aruba               Hooiberg 94F
Martina   Fred A                             8/5/1980                Aruba               Hooiberg 94F
Martina   Wilfred E                             6/12/1945   Bonaire               Hooiberg 94F
Martina, geb. Gonzalez   Nubia F   10/7/1949   Mocoa                Hooiberg 94F[/color]Spanner   Arelis G                             2/20/1978   San Cristobal   Hooiberg 94F

The blue are a family

The back bold is fred family

Fred us the one that made the porn movie of a young girl teen in Aruba and he is part of the gang.

go to take some zzzz.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 21, 2008, 01:49:08 PM
Thanks SS…This is the link to the discussion  about Freddie and Karen Martina! …I recall googling the dad, but don’t remember the mom’s name! Didn't get to follow up as the convo changed to the Judges' list Deutekom!...LOL

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2733.120


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 21, 2008, 02:08:46 PM
This is how she was listed in 2005 on the Chamber list…MARTINA-GONZALEZ NUBIA FELISA, HOOIBERG 94-F…I didn’t see her listed after that, but could have missed it!…Nah…sanitized…no records exist on the Registry!!! Guess I was imagining what I just read and typed!    ::MonkeyHaHa::


http://www.arubachamber.com/DISKKLEINBEDRIJF31JULI2004.htm




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 21, 2008, 03:00:14 PM
This is how she was listed in 2005 on the Chamber list…MARTINA-GONZALEZ NUBIA FELISA, HOOIBERG 94-F…I didn’t see her listed after that, but could have missed it!…Nah…sanitized…no records exist on the Registry!!! Guess I was imagining what I just read and typed!    ::MonkeyHaHa::


http://www.arubachamber.com/DISKKLEINBEDRIJF31JULI2004.htm







Just a thought....  could it be that Ernesto uses his mother's maiden name and he might have been born before she was ever married, Wilfred Martina is the biological father of Freddy, Nubia is a step-mother, Mrs. Arambatzis-Rodriguez Albert is Freddy's biological mother who has remarried and lives near the Sloots, and Gish (sp) is either a sister or step-sister.  Freddy could then be staying with his mother sometimes and his father other times?  Just a thought and I have absolutely no basis for this except trying to put the puzzle together.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on June 21, 2008, 05:12:52 PM
Texas Monkeys...Help!  How would Simian know about the Houston Chronicle?  Is it a big paper? I have never heard of it, heck I haven't heard of most here in Ohio! Just the really big ones, Columbus, Akron, Cleveland and the local ones!  TIA

Google? LOL  I have my thoughts as to how Simian would know this. It would be the person he knew that told him this...if Simian is who we think...



maybe the Simian is in the news business? he scrutinizes media outlets.....but sings the praises of one......in Aruba


Hi COLUMBO...nice to see you! So you don't think that Armin is Simian? Or do you think as I do that Simian and some other poster's were being 'fed' posts, via IM or email? TIA


"the man on the inside will call soon"

note: The Simian spends much of his time "confirming"

he anonymizes to protect "sources"


Phone…but who was calling? TIA

Lala’s…….


 ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyDance::


 ::cartwheel:: ::cartwheel:: ::cartwheel::


working on Simian.......LE and media use each other


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on June 21, 2008, 05:19:44 PM
ConcernedUK Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:51 pm
Does Shango liaise with Simian?


interesting choice of words


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on June 21, 2008, 05:22:32 PM
Lala's:

Who protects sources?

Who confirms information?

Who has sources "on the inside?"

 ::MonkeyEek::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on June 21, 2008, 05:25:08 PM
i.e:
http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/07/06/reporters.contempt/




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on June 21, 2008, 07:12:29 PM
COLOMBO,

So, you think Simian is a reporter/newsperson & male?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 21, 2008, 07:40:38 PM
RODRIGUEZ TEJADA W/V WINTERDAL RAMONA DEL CARMEN MADIKI 58, A

http://www.arubachamber.com/DISKKLEINBEDRIJF31JULI2004.htm



This is the same Ramona who is now in the Hudson County jail.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 21, 2008, 08:00:24 PM
Mum - I couldn't find the Sloots on that Chamber list.  Do you know why they weren't listed?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on June 21, 2008, 11:27:29 PM
Hi - newbie poster here on SM but not to this case. Been following it since 2005 especially codetalkers.

I am curious - does anybody think this case might involve British or Dutch Royalty? Perhaps a Prince (and maybe his bro's) sowing some royal oats on Aruba who got caught up in something? Not saying Joran is innocent, but just don't get the cover up - why protect Joran - who is providing him, the Kalpoes and G. Wever with the best legal defense money can buy? Maybe this is one vicious triangle - if Joran talks, mob pounces to protect the "figure at this ball who is no prince charming", and this Prince spends a lot of $bucks at Aruba ca$inos, etc.   

In my opinion, most codetalkers make reference to a Prince:
---Simian talks about a 'whiskered rat" (implying Cinderella was taken to the ball, to meet the Prince, and the "whiskered rat' became a coachman with the most enormous moustache - who stopped to think (repose) then took the bribe $ (drank the cup of gravy).
---Alcazar's Revenge talks about  "Before the ides of 31 B.C. - 14 A.D. you will all see that it is the truth.". The ides of March is about Julius Caesar, and BEFORE JC was his adopted son 18 yr old "Augustus", who took over when his father Julius Caesar was murdered (August and July).
--- Merian Ernest talks about the son of a Jaguar. The Jaguar is known as "the KING" in South America, so the son of the king is a Prince.
---Grey Whisper says "The figure at this ball may turn lead to gold, but he's no PRINCE charming." Implied again that Natalee is Cinderella, taken to a Ball (party).  The carriage was Deepak's car, the Horsemen were the other partygoers who need to be pinched.  Cinderalla lost a shoe (er, Joran did hee hee).
--Simian and Shango talk many times about the Palace. Is this the Royal Palace per se? And the ORANGE one is for show - Reference to one of the many Princes of Orange perhaps?
---Alcazar's Revenge also talks about the "pilot of the Jupiter AM-13, he knows who is the saint with the mistaken name" (now the pilot of Jupiter AM-13 was a MONKEY, so a MONKEY knows the saint with the mistaken name - Peter ahem Pieter?? Is Pieter the 'saint' with the 'mistaken name'???  Janus is also the doorkeeper, as is Peter in Catholic tradition - or Pieter??

The blueblooded codetalker knows what happened...IMHO.... your thoughts?
 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: finngirl on June 22, 2008, 02:32:55 AM
Finn...you are a gem!!!...Had it on my list to look for that aeromodeler's link this morning!!!!

That is where the name Zedan was found, after Melody's named him at RWV then input from SandraK and Bondia...and we have some beach tennis pics from 2004....beach tennis...Hmmmm...checkme...and used to make model aeroplanes....

Coincidence that Tommy Pooch and Ernesto Arambatzis were both in Aruba in May of 2005........

YW  :cool:

poochy: dang! I'm impressed!

I always thought Rudy Croes
was the whiskered rat ...
but your interpretations are XLNT

saint w/ mistaken name ...
simian mentioned saint alibi/saint john ...
can't remember any others off hand
and no time to read back right now

anyway ... hope you will stay around
and continue to contribute

 :wink:



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: San on June 22, 2008, 10:05:16 AM
Hi - newbie poster here on SM but not to this case. Been following it since 2005 especially codetalkers.

I am curious - does anybody think this case might involve British or Dutch Royalty? Perhaps a Prince (and maybe his bro's) sowing some royal oats on Aruba who got caught up in something? Not saying Joran is innocent, but just don't get the cover up - why protect Joran - who is providing him, the Kalpoes and G. Wever with the best legal defense money can buy? Maybe this is one vicious triangle - if Joran talks, mob pounces to protect the "figure at this ball who is no prince charming", and this Prince spends a lot of $bucks at Aruba ca$inos, etc.   

In my opinion, most codetalkers make reference to a Prince:
---Simian talks about a 'whiskered rat" (implying Cinderella was taken to the ball, to meet the Prince, and the "whiskered rat' became a coachman with the most enormous moustache - who stopped to think (repose) then took the bribe $ (drank the cup of gravy).
---Alcazar's Revenge talks about  "Before the ides of 31 B.C. - 14 A.D. you will all see that it is the truth.". The ides of March is about Julius Caesar, and BEFORE JC was his adopted son 18 yr old "Augustus", who took over when his father Julius Caesar was murdered (August and July).
--- Merian Ernest talks about the son of a Jaguar. The Jaguar is known as "the KING" in South America, so the son of the king is a Prince.
---Grey Whisper says "The figure at this ball may turn lead to gold, but he's no PRINCE charming." Implied again that Natalee is Cinderella, taken to a Ball (party).  The carriage was Deepak's car, the Horsemen were the other partygoers who need to be pinched.  Cinderalla lost a shoe (er, Joran did hee hee).
--Simian and Shango talk many times about the Palace. Is this the Royal Palace per se? And the ORANGE one is for show - Reference to one of the many Princes of Orange perhaps?
---Alcazar's Revenge also talks about the "pilot of the Jupiter AM-13, he knows who is the saint with the mistaken name" (now the pilot of Jupiter AM-13 was a MONKEY, so a MONKEY knows the saint with the mistaken name - Peter ahem Pieter?? Is Pieter the 'saint' with the 'mistaken name'???  Janus is also the doorkeeper, as is Peter in Catholic tradition - or Pieter??

The blueblooded codetalker knows what happened...IMHO.... your thoughts?
 

Welcome to SM Poochy.  I'm sure one of our posters will answer your post.  I don't post in this thread but just wanted to welcome you.

(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d118/Sanddrops/Scared%20Monkeys/welcome4_hg_clr.gif)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 22, 2008, 10:26:57 AM
Mum - I couldn't find the Sloots on that Chamber list.  Do you know why they weren't listed?


SS...Only Chamber members are listed and not all bussiness peeps choose to be!

I will work on all the Ernest/Arambatzis stuff in the morning and post it all…vms and Hotping have the documents we have found, as I had to transfer stuff from my email, as they are messing with it again on Tuesday! I won’t be able to copy most of the documents!..Last time they did that, I lost stuff and received emails weeks later and some I sent either never arrived or did ages after, so chose to transfer!

Please go over it all, as I may have missed something or gone down a wrong path! A new set of eyes, so to speak…LOL…Or lots of them would be better... ::MonkeyHaHa::
 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 22, 2008, 10:32:52 AM
Hi - newbie poster here on SM but not to this case. Been following it since 2005 especially codetalkers.

I am curious - does anybody think this case might involve British or Dutch Royalty? Perhaps a Prince (and maybe his bro's) sowing some royal oats on Aruba who got caught up in something? Not saying Joran is innocent, but just don't get the cover up - why protect Joran - who is providing him, the Kalpoes and G. Wever with the best legal defense money can buy? Maybe this is one vicious triangle - if Joran talks, mob pounces to protect the "figure at this ball who is no prince charming", and this Prince spends a lot of $bucks at Aruba ca$inos, etc.   

In my opinion, most codetalkers make reference to a Prince:
---Simian talks about a 'whiskered rat" (implying Cinderella was taken to the ball, to meet the Prince, and the "whiskered rat' became a coachman with the most enormous moustache - who stopped to think (repose) then took the bribe $ (drank the cup of gravy).
---Alcazar's Revenge talks about  "Before the ides of 31 B.C. - 14 A.D. you will all see that it is the truth.". The ides of March is about Julius Caesar, and BEFORE JC was his adopted son 18 yr old "Augustus", who took over when his father Julius Caesar was murdered (August and July).
--- Merian Ernest talks about the son of a Jaguar. The Jaguar is known as "the KING" in South America, so the son of the king is a Prince.
---Grey Whisper says "The figure at this ball may turn lead to gold, but he's no PRINCE charming." Implied again that Natalee is Cinderella, taken to a Ball (party).  The carriage was Deepak's car, the Horsemen were the other partygoers who need to be pinched.  Cinderalla lost a shoe (er, Joran did hee hee).
--Simian and Shango talk many times about the Palace. Is this the Royal Palace per se? And the ORANGE one is for show - Reference to one of the many Princes of Orange perhaps?
---Alcazar's Revenge also talks about the "pilot of the Jupiter AM-13, he knows who is the saint with the mistaken name" (now the pilot of Jupiter AM-13 was a MONKEY, so a MONKEY knows the saint with the mistaken name - Peter ahem Pieter?? Is Pieter the 'saint' with the 'mistaken name'???  Janus is also the doorkeeper, as is Peter in Catholic tradition - or Pieter??

The blueblooded codetalker knows what happened...IMHO.... your thoughts?
 


Hi Poochy…Welcome…We had a Dutch poster JE, a while back that was interested in, and posted much of what you posted.  I will see if I can find some of those posts in the next couple of days.  I have looked at it briefly and the one that got me was ‘the noble son of the sun breaking through’ and who’s head is on the other side of the florin’!

Caesu has an avatar that looks like a sun breaking over a Dutch flag, and I did ask once what it meant, if anything, but he must have missed my post.  I searched it and didn’t come up with anything!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on June 22, 2008, 11:34:01 AM
Thanks for the warm welcome everybody! 

I thought the 'sun' references were about 'sol', a name with 'sol' in it, or the Aruba Lodge "El Sol Naciente", but could very well be a flag.

Here's some more stuff I've been checking out:
*************************************
DIRTY HAND = BLACK HAND

http://tinyurl.com/5dpucn

"...on the extortion letter was a dagger thru a heart, a revolver and a bottle marked 'POISON'..."

POISON NOTES....
the GAMBLERS STILL KNOW THE GIRL....
all the GAMBLERS KNeW WHAT WAS WRITTEN DOWN  (on the black hand letter).
Joran said she was from a wealthy family.
She had to win back her father's money... 
Is Freddy's purse tied to the black numbers? (Freddy's winnings tied to the black note amount?)

the grey whisper said...
is freddy's purse tied to the black numbers/////  (I think whisper meant to type in 5 question marks and not forward slashes)texan, the answer is in the numbers 01 06 05   (June 1, 2005)

who are the other guests at that charade?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Hand_(extortion)

"...Black Hand, or La Mano Nera in Italian, was a type of extortion racket. It was a method of extortion, not a criminal organization as such, though gangsters of Camorra and the Mafia practiced it.[1]..."

In popular culture
In Betty Smith's novel, A Tree Grows in Brooklyn, the Black Hand society is referenced in chapter 14 as Sicilians who kidnap small children and demand money for their return.

In Francis Ford Coppola's film The Godfather Part II, Fanucci, the local mafioso, is referred to as being "..with the Black Hand" by Genco Abbandando, a friend of the young Vito Corleone.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 22, 2008, 12:03:25 PM
Mum - I couldn't find the Sloots on that Chamber list.  Do you know why they weren't listed?


SS...Only Chamber members are listed and not all bussiness peeps choose to be!

I will work on all the Ernest/Arambatzis stuff in the morning and post it all…vms and Hotping have the documents we have found, as I had to transfer stuff from my email, as they are messing with it again on Tuesday! I won’t be able to copy most of the documents!..Last time they did that, I lost stuff and received emails weeks later and some I sent either never arrived or did ages after, so chose to transfer!

Please go over it all, as I may have missed something or gone down a wrong path! A new set of eyes, so to speak…LOL…Or lots of them would be better... ::MonkeyHaHa::
 




Mum - a while back I asked you how you knew that you have a visitor.  The reason was because I suspect that I have one, too.  About 6 weeks ago, I suddenly lost my entire email program - I lost everything, including a lot of valuable genealogy data.  Now, I backup like crazy on CDs.  Sometimes when I go to certain sites, my computer goes crazy.  Sometimes when I shut down from my Internet program, my modem continues to function and data continues to come in.  Yesterday, when I was cruising MySpace for Aruban names, Norton notified me that they had intercepted a virus called CometCursor.  Is this what you have experienced?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 22, 2008, 01:16:48 PM
Hello Poochy. Welcome to the most maligned forum in the world. If you like confusion you have arrived at the right place.  Jump in and give us your thoughts.

Motto for this place is:  Just because you think you understood it all last night...keep reading...today it won't make any sense.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on June 22, 2008, 02:10:27 PM
La la'sMom, Thanks for the warm welcome!  I do agree with you - Been going' round and round myself in one giant circle for years now like most of you.

I'm trying to post other avenues to research - to move away from the 'locals' - the little nobodies IMHO and dig deeper into why Sander 'lost' his cell phone that night, why Koen hides in fear inside his own home, why he cries and sleeps with mummy and pappy, and why that entire family up and FLED Aruba. Also wondering what would scare the bezeebers out of the other little nobodies and make them FLEE Aruba immediately after Natalee went missing. Nobody is afraid of Paulus, so it isn't him. All the codetalkers reference casinos, gamblers, card (SHARKS), loan (SHARKS), Freddy's purse, and the Palace.

Joran said Natalee wanted to see the SHARKS. Seeing his snide humor, perhaps he was no cafone (mob tattletale) and thought it funny to say she wanted to see a loan SHARK.

At 17 he was able to play in torney's in at least two casinos that we know about.

There's another Freddy who was at the Aruba 2005 UltimateBet.com. Freddy Deeb won the Aruba Poker Classic back in 2005...

UltimateBet would have covered Freddy's Purse (Deeb that is - Lebonese guy). The watchtower 'guards' were asleep (looking the  other way). Cards were up sleeves (cheating perhaps?) and were played...   

You're right, we can go round and round and round! Just trying to spin this in a new and fresh direction!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 22, 2008, 02:21:42 PM
La la'sMom, Thanks for the warm welcome!  I do agree with you - Been going' round and round myself in one giant circle for years now like most of you.

I'm trying to post other avenues to research - to move away from the 'locals' - the little nobodies IMHO and dig deeper into why Sander 'lost' his cell phone that night, why Koen hides in fear inside his own home, why he cries and sleeps with mummy and pappy, and why that entire family up and FLED Aruba. Also wondering what would scare the bezeebers out of the other little nobodies and make them FLEE Aruba immediately after Natalee went missing. Nobody is afraid of Paulus, so it isn't him. All the codetalkers reference casinos, gamblers, card (SHARKS), loan (SHARKS), Freddy's purse, and the Palace.

Joran said Natalee wanted to see the SHARKS. Seeing his snide humor, perhaps he was no cafone (mob tattletale) and thought it funny to say she wanted to see a loan SHARK.

At 17 he was able to play in torney's in at least two casinos that we know about.

There's another Freddy who was at the Aruba 2005 UltimateBet.com. Freddy Deeb won the Aruba Poker Classic back in 2005...

UltimateBet would have covered Freddy's Purse (Deeb that is - Lebonese guy). The watchtower 'guards' were asleep (looking the  other way). Cards were up sleeves (cheating perhaps?) and were played...   

You're right, we can go round and round and round! Just trying to spin this in a new and fresh direction!


Freddy Deeb...do you have any more info Poochy?  I remember checking out a long time ago. but my memory is failing me...too many names and too many paths..LOL...TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on June 22, 2008, 02:56:38 PM
Mum,

Just what's on the net for Kassem "Freddy" Deeb
http://www.homepokergames.com/deeb.php
pic is on the link.

Kassem Deeb was born in Beirut, Lebanon, but has since relocated to Las Vegas, Nevada. At the Bellagio, he is known as a regular high-stakes player – an activity he refers to as “investing”. Most people remember Deeb from his appearance on the World Poker Tour where he went all-in with As-Kd against Gus Hansen who called with (Qd-10s). The first card was an ace but it was followed by two queens and Deeb was gone. In a post-game interview Deeb said that he wished he could play against Hansen every day for the rest of his life - a not-so-veiled jab at Hansen's supposed inferior playing ability.


************
also want to fix the link in an earlier post - the right parenthesis was omitted when I made the link:

who are the other guests at that charade?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Hand_(extortion)  so use this one:  http://tinyurl.com/5tbumb
 
 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: bleachedblack on June 22, 2008, 03:06:00 PM
Arab maybe; English not likely JMHO


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: hotping on June 22, 2008, 03:15:04 PM
Could be Him

 
Associated Records For: DEEB, KASSEM
 
 
 Names associated / Aliases:
 
 
 Possible Relatives:
 
  DEEB, HANAN A
  DEEB, JEANINE


 Addresses:
 
   9753 Floweret Ave, Las Vegas NV 89117
 
 
 ::MonkeyCool::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: hotping on June 22, 2008, 03:17:16 PM
Could be Him

 
Associated Records For: DEEB, KASSEM
 
 
 Names associated / Aliases:
 
 
 Possible Relatives:
 
  DEEB, HANAN A
  DEEB, JEANINE


 Addresses:
 
   9753 Floweret Ave, Las Vegas NV 89117
 
 
 ::MonkeyCool::
OOPs..Here's More

DEEB, HANAN A (Age 35)

Associated names:

 DIB, HANAN A Floweret Ave , LAS VEGAS, NV 89117
Sorrento Dr , LONG BEACH, CA 90803
1st St , LONG BEACH, CA 90803   06/23/1972 838-8343
(702) 838-8343  Possible Relatives:

DEEB, SAMIR M (Age 48)
DEEB, KASSEM
DEEB, KASSEM I
DEEB, ABRAHAM K
DEEB, JEANINE
DEEB, SALEH I 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on June 22, 2008, 03:32:35 PM
http://tinyurl.com/5o2hvt

while googling Freddy D. I found this link that has the keywords:

LION TALES
CINDERELLA STORY
STAIRWAY TO HEAVEN

But I'm sure at this point, googling keywords lead down many, many paths...round and round and round!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Observer on June 22, 2008, 03:44:55 PM
Freddy Deeb is a very popular Proffessional Poker Player and I have watched him dozens and dozens of times. As far as I know he has no relations to anything in this case.MO


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 22, 2008, 03:47:58 PM
Somebody help me here...I have missed the Deeb story...or did I?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on June 22, 2008, 04:00:06 PM
Freddy Deeb is a very popular Proffessional Poker Player and I have watched him dozens and dozens of times. As far as I know he has no relations to anything in this case.MO

Grey whisper said Freddy's purse is tied to black numbers. This case is tied up in casinos, underage gambling kids, friends working in casinos, and this is the codetalker thread--all codetalkers alluded to gambling. 

5/16/06 7:16 AM  the grey whisper said...
is Freddy’s purse tied to the black numbers///// texan, the answer is in the numbers 01 06 05
who are the other guests at that charade?



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Blonde on June 22, 2008, 04:07:26 PM
POOCHY
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/Fun%20stuff/1asi048.gif)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Blonde on June 22, 2008, 04:12:49 PM
I lost all my 300 saved emails also hmmm


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Observer on June 22, 2008, 04:16:07 PM
Freddy Deeb is a very popular Proffessional Poker Player and I have watched him dozens and dozens of times. As far as I know he has no relations to anything in this case.MO

Grey whisper said Freddy's purse is tied to black numbers. This case is tied up in casinos, underage gambling kids, friends working in casinos, and this is the codetalker thread--all codetalkers alluded to gambling. 

5/16/06 7:16 AM  the grey whisper said...
is Freddy’s purse tied to the black numbers///// texan, the answer is in the numbers 01 06 05
who are the other guests at that charade?



Freddy is just a Poker Player who travels abroad in many poker tournaments. His winnings are from the pool of all the others that spent the money to enter the Tournament. He has nothing to do with the Raddison or any Casino in Aruba.

What should be looked into was the owners of the Excelsior before 1998 and the owner after 1998 and the now Judge SMid who investigated Money Laundering and part of the Task force in 1998. Black Hand is correct and there is a definite connection to that same fricken Mob that is connected to everyone in this case even the Mansurs,PVDS and Rudy Croes and the MEP.

BTW: Welcome to the cage!  ::MonkeyCool::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 22, 2008, 04:26:27 PM
I lost all my 300 saved emails also hmmm


Hi Blonde...same day that SS had problems...my email went wacky, didn't loose any, but I remember it was a Saturday morning and after that I got a couple more email accounts!

Poochy...House of Orange...which brother could it have been...are they gamblers..could they have been in Aruba...still think the 'noble son' fits with royalty more the the Mason's!TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: katiekatie2u on June 22, 2008, 04:49:32 PM
 :smt102 :smt100
lala's mom
and anyone with a comment please feel free .. help me here!!
I  dont come here much as time doesnt allow me... but I am curious to all and any comments on this  subject:
what is possibly and how deep is pauulus vandersloots  involvement in this .. we know he is  evil and we know that joran is spoiled and arrogant and just thinks he is above the law because of his dad.. how powerful is this man.. looking t his eyes I see such evil ...why is he so protected...
I may be a little naive or not realy naive mostly  uninformed .....
misskatie


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on June 22, 2008, 05:31:59 PM

Poochy...House of Orange...which brother could it have been...are they gamblers..could they have been in Aruba...still think the 'noble son' fits with royalty more the the Mason's!TIA

Got the following - not sure if they gamble, or if they were in Aruba, but Pieter was married in August 2005. If you google for his pic, the hairline of later pics does resemble the person sitting next to Natalee at the black jack table....(or so does 1/2 the German population of men with receding hairlines!)

Pieter-Christiaan Michiel Prins van Oranje-Nassau, van Vollenhoven; born 22 March 1972, is the third son of HRH Princess Margriet of the Netherlands and Prof. Pieter van Vollenhoven.

His godparents are his paternal grandfather, Pieter van Vollenhoven, Archduke Michael of Austria-Este, Jonkheer J. Reuchlin, Queen Beatrix of the Netherlands, and Mr. Drabbe.

Prince Pieter-Christiaan has three brothers: Prince Maurits, Prince Bernhard and Prince Floris.
He married Anita van Eijk in a civil ceremony on 25 August 2005 at the Het Loo Palace, Apeldoorn which was followed by a religious ceremony on 27 August 2005 at the Grote of St. Jeroenskerk in Noordwijk. Since he did not seek parliamentary approval for his marriage, due to the remote chance of his succession to the throne, Pieter-Christiaan lost his place in the succession to the Dutch throne when he married Anita. Pieter-Christiaan resides in Amsterdam where he currently works for the ICT company Shopservices.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 22, 2008, 05:35:21 PM
:smt102 :smt100
lala's mom
and anyone with a comment please feel free .. help me here!!
I  dont come here much as time doesnt allow me... but I am curious to all and any comments on this  subject:
what is possibly and how deep is pauulus vandersloots  involvement in this .. we know he is  evil and we know that joran is spoiled and arrogant and just thinks he is above the law because of his dad.. how powerful is this man.. looking t his eyes I see such evil ...why is he so protected...
I may be a little naive or not realy naive mostly  uninformed .....
misskatie

If you are asking strictly as to Shango's interpretation of who is involved...I would say Paulus is in deep and as Shango said...the elder and dirty hand are in this together.  If you are asking me personally, then I would say Paulus is involved in ways we haven't discovered yet.  Do you know of any other island that would allow a certain set of average citizens to run amok and get away with all that we have uncovered?  No way it's just Joran and his buddies out for a joy ride. Otherwise, it would all be over and Aruba would be business as usual.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on June 22, 2008, 05:36:23 PM
:smt102 :smt100
lala's mom
and anyone with a comment please feel free .. help me here!!
I  dont come here much as time doesnt allow me... but I am curious to all and any comments on this  subject:
what is possibly and how deep is pauulus vandersloots  involvement in this .. we know he is  evil and we know that joran is spoiled and arrogant and just thinks he is above the law because of his dad.. how powerful is this man.. looking t his eyes I see such evil ...why is he so protected...
I may be a little naive or not realy naive mostly  uninformed .....
misskatie


His one comment speaks tomes to me "I have to PROTECT my son".  Interesting word choice "PROTECT" - not "SUPPORT" but "PROTECT". PROTECT from whom or fomr what? That is what I believe is his involvement. He got the call at 4am to pick his son up. Another father got a call at 2am. One boy was late for school, the other boy was on time for school.

Two fathers, and two sons. And man, one of 'em is sweating bullets!



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on June 22, 2008, 06:02:05 PM
******* - thanks for the howdy!

katiekatie2u - Remember that one witness is no witness. Joran is one witness, and Paulus, who picked his son up at 4am is the other witness. BUT, Paulus exercised his right not to testify, so without a body, one witness is NO witness. That was the legal checkmate - Paulus, the fallen elder, knows the halls of the Palace all too well.  He broke one gate (gate = loophole) with exercising his right not to testify.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: katiekatie2u on June 22, 2008, 06:19:34 PM
*******
thanks it does make alot of sense.. I am not here much.. I catch bits and pieces here and there and try to make sense of some of it.
I gotta tell ya you  guys are pretty cool and well versed on the subject..
again I thank you for taking time to respond :: ::MonkeyRoll::
misskatie


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 22, 2008, 06:35:44 PM
LaLa's - In my head, I am trying to connect two things that we have all been discussing lately.  Here in S&S we have been touching on the possibility the J.M. is involved.  Over in NH, we have been discussing the possibility that Paulass's trip to Florida involved a video tape.  Do we know where J.M. was during the few weeks immediately following Natalee's disappearance?  Did Paulass possibly deliver a tape to J.M.?  Is J.M. the source of the Ditch's affluence?  "The News" has a key.  Dirty Hand can break the alibi.  Does the key = the video?  Are The News and Dirty Hand the same?   The News and Dirty Hand walk in all houses.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Blonde on June 22, 2008, 06:42:09 PM
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/Casino/ktrk_022206_holloway6.jpg)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: klaasend on June 22, 2008, 07:50:30 PM
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/Casino/ktrk_022206_holloway6.jpg)

I enlarged, brightened and adjusted the contrast so we could see the other people in this screen capture better:

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/ktrk_022206_holloway6.jpg)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on June 22, 2008, 08:09:55 PM
La la'sMom, Thanks for the warm welcome!  I do agree with you - Been going' round and round myself in one giant circle for years now like most of you.

I'm trying to post other avenues to research - to move away from the 'locals' - the little nobodies IMHO and dig deeper into why Sander 'lost' his cell phone that night, why Koen hides in fear inside his own home, why he cries and sleeps with mummy and pappy, and why that entire family up and FLED Aruba. Also wondering what would scare the bezeebers out of the other little nobodies and make them FLEE Aruba immediately after Natalee went missing. Nobody is afraid of Paulus, so it isn't him. All the codetalkers reference casinos, gamblers, card (SHARKS), loan (SHARKS), Freddy's purse, and the Palace.

Joran said Natalee wanted to see the SHARKS. Seeing his snide humor, perhaps he was no cafone (mob tattletale) and thought it funny to say she wanted to see a loan SHARK.

At 17 he was able to play in torney's in at least two casinos that we know about.

There's another Freddy who was at the Aruba 2005 UltimateBet.com. Freddy Deeb won the Aruba Poker Classic back in 2005...

UltimateBet would have covered Freddy's Purse (Deeb that is - Lebonese guy). The watchtower 'guards' were asleep (looking the  other way). Cards were up sleeves (cheating perhaps?) and were played...   

You're right, we can go round and round and round! Just trying to spin this in a new and fresh direction!




poison note$ (loans)
why did the girl owe money

who knows what song the elder will sing
a poisonous siren in the halls of babylon
he will sing for his son.....


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on June 22, 2008, 08:10:29 PM
she spent her nights at their tables


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 22, 2008, 09:12:31 PM
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/Casino/ktrk_022206_holloway6.jpg)

I enlarged, brightened and adjusted the contrast so we could see the other people in this screen capture better:

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/ktrk_022206_holloway6.jpg)


Thanks Blonde and Klaas....


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 22, 2008, 09:47:06 PM
she spent her nights at their tables



Hi Colombo - at one point, CAPS threw out a suggestion to us.  He felt that Natalee was the wrong girl that night and that she was a substitute.  He thought that it was Virginia who owed money, but "the bird flew away".  Virginia left Aruba on her grandfather's private jet the day before.  Is this possible?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on June 22, 2008, 09:57:52 PM
she spent her nights at their tables



Hi Colombo - at one point, CAPS threw out a suggestion to us.  He felt that Natalee was the wrong girl that night and that she was a substitute.  He thought that it was Virginia who owed money, but "the bird flew away".  Virginia left Aruba on her grandfather's private jet the day before.  Is this possible?
Colombo - first off, I like the way you think!

SS - remember the gal who stayed in Nat's room a week prior, who's friend was buying drugs from the locals - and didn't pay up, so this Nat look-a-like was approached and scared big time to pay up - for her friend...yes, a case of mistaken identity.  Recalling also at the next hotel from the H.I. was a group of teens from Boston MA also celebrating their new found freedom...and I recall Nat and friends spent alot of time at that other hotel with the Bostonites.

And remember - Gretta said someone from Boston approached her, saying they had info on the case but would not solve the case ... didn't one of the two security guards initially picked up pre-joran and kalpoes - have a cute blonde Boston girlfriend???






Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 22, 2008, 10:46:34 PM
she spent her nights at their tables



Hi Colombo - at one point, CAPS threw out a suggestion to us.  He felt that Natalee was the wrong girl that night and that she was a substitute.  He thought that it was Virginia who owed money, but "the bird flew away".  Virginia left Aruba on her grandfather's private jet the day before.  Is this possible?
Colombo - first off, I like the way you think!

SS - remember the gal who stayed in Nat's room a week prior, who's friend was buying drugs from the locals - and didn't pay up, so this Nat look-a-like was approached and scared big time to pay up - for her friend...yes, a case of mistaken identity.  Recalling also at the next hotel from the H.I. was a group of teens from Boston MA also celebrating their new found freedom...and I recall Nat and friends spent alot of time at that other hotel with the Bostonites.

And remember - Gretta said someone from Boston approached her, saying they had info on the case but would not solve the case ... didn't one of the two security guards initially picked up pre-joran and kalpoes - have a cute blonde Boston girlfriend???








Is this the person that Greta met at the airport when she missed her flight to Boston?  Why didn't this information receive more coverage?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: finngirl on June 22, 2008, 11:33:13 PM

june 26/the night before the quarry search,
actually at 12:39am on june 27,
not long after midnight sim said:
"watch tomorrow but do not speak & it will all unfold before you"

the day of the search, june 27 at 12:08pm, sim says:
"They have found her. Watch your news stations for this one.
I said this was to happen. THEY FOUND HER BODY!!

3 minutes later sim says in spanish (& Ally translates)
"he said to keep watching the news,
and that he apologizes for the confusion,
but he is tired of people trying to impersonate him"

the search dogs "hit" in late morning/early afternoon.
until late night/midnight we were still waiting to hear official word
of what they may have found: nothing


Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 12:12 pm
Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon with his 12:30 AM posting.

If the cowboys do not find the loot today, it will not be found

finally, after midnight, when nothing was "admitted" to be found
and posters were seriously criticizing the codetalkers:


1:43am
623. The Simian has a handicap of 12

1:53am
635. The Simian says that The Simian only reports developments ahead of time. The Simian thinks what is going on is shameless. Playing with people's feelings.

1:54am
637. So Shango is schizophrenic and his other personality is Simian. That is priceless you sick freak.

then sim & shango have their big catfight, beginning at #648/2:01am.
sim is feeling insulted by all the criticism from the other posters


6:56am
725. See, this is kind of ridiculous. We've got folks who say they are on the inside or at least close enough to understand what is going [on], they are arguing back and forth and "calling each other out". The above seems to say that Simian can ping Shock/Check and they all know each other. Simian could make a call and get Shango taken in to jail?

What a joke folks, screw this, if you know something F*cking do something besides act like children as you fight over clue supremacy. Knowing something and doing nothing, or not ending something you could help to, serves only to build your ego folks.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

Babalú Says: June 27th, 2005 at 12:30 am
Concerned: No, I guess he is head of some local official corps. He is the guy that knows everything and that has been in the house of Babylonians NOT seeking pleasure for himself, so Shango says. So maybe he went to search for Natalee and he is the chief of Polis.

Shango on June 27th, 2005 12:28 pm
Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon with his
12:30 AM posting

Shango on June 27th, 2005 4:00 am
Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon with his 12:30 posting

Shango on June 27th, 2005 12:12 pm
Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon with his
12:30 AM posting

If the cowboys do not find the loot today, it will not be found

Shango on June 27th, 2005 12:26 pm
Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon with his
12:30 AM posting

Simian your Doppleganger is with us

Shango on June 27th, 2005 12:28 pm
Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon with his
12:30 AM posting

Shango on June 27th, 2005 9:44 pm
Babalu opened a window looking into babylon on his 12:31 A.M. post

DirtyHand is alive

Shango on June 27th, 2005 9:48 pm
Babalu knew who dirty hand was at half past 12

drax on June 27th, 2005 10:57 pm
DirtyHand has walked through the maze:…is DirtyHand Poppa VDS?

Shango on June 27th, 2005 11:01 pm
The Drax asks a question for which he already provided an answer.

Shango on June 27th, 2005 11:04 pm
Babalu opened a window looking onto Babylon with his 12:30 A.M. post

drax on June 27th, 2005 11:08 pm
Shango says: The Drax asks a question for which he already provided an answer.
I don’t understand, Shango.

Babalu on June 27th, 2005 11:10 pm
He’s talking about Dirty Hands identity, please refer to my post of yesterday 12:30 AM. He is JVDS, and not Joran.

Lucy on June 27th, 2005 10:56 pm
Someone said last night that Dirty Hand was somebody in the police.

Shango on June 27th, 2005 11:13 pm
Lucy spoke at 10:56
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

AFAIK this is when shango posted/approximate time/aruba clock:
june 26th: 7 AM to 3:12 PM
8 hours

june 27th: 8 PM to 4 AM
8 hours

june 28th
4 AM to 7 PM
double shift
15 hours

june 29th
OFF

june 30th
6 PM to 7 PM
1 hour

since you know when shango posted
you can look at the articles from the time frame
around those dates to find shango's comments


508 comments/june 24 @ 2:24pm - june 26 @ 1:36am
http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/2005/06/24/natalee-we-arent-there-in-aruba-but-theyre-here-in-our-prayers/#comments

393 comments/june 24 @ 3:33am - june 26 @ 1:14am
http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/2005/06/24/un-crisis-fuera-di-proporcion-a-crisis-out-of-proportion/#comments

242 comments/june 24 @ 5:44pm - october 14 @ 11:16am
http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/2005/06/24/natalee-holloway-afternoon-updates/#comments

504 comments/june 25 @ 11:52am - july 3 @ 11:06pm
http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/2005/06/25/natalee-holloway-saturday-june-25/#comments

98 comments/june 24 @ 11:56pm - august 4 @ 9:57pm
http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/2005/06/25/natalee-holloway-evening-updates/#comments

7:45am
22. What's the morning news Shock?

8:58am
42. Morning, all. Did the judge from Curacao make the flight to Aruba today?

9:11am
49. yes, judge is at courthouse I just heard. Satish's lawyer thinks Satish will be free today. Grrrrr

9:25am
56. Well it is morning so where is the news that Shock was talking about?

409 comments/june 26 @ 9:57am - august 24 @ 9:52pm
http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/2005/06/26/sunday-morning-update/#comments

1001 comments/june 26 @ 2:33pm - june 27 @ 1:44pm
http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/2005/06/26/natalee-holloway-breaking-aruba-news-croes-released/#comments

6:52am
71. bye for now folks...wish shocked monkey would come on...he/she had me so hopeful last night...that there would be answers...seems their theory is seriously challenged now

some shango posts: 128-129-168-169-173-175-177
some simian posts: 170-203-219


10:03pm
219. The alibi needs to be broken. The dogs have pouches on their feet. They are checking the dirty waters in Noord.

The Babylonians knew what the girl did earlier in the week. Therein lies the motive. The third act will [be] played soon, but the boy is not Ajax. He is too afraid to pull off such a feat.

11:23pm
361. Maybe last night's poster was given wrong information that the package from the Hague would be arriving this morning. Maybe it's arriving tomorrow instead. Perhaps the judge who "missed the plane" on Saturday was trying to delay the hearing until he or she could review this package. But it never came, and time required the hearing be held today without it.

221 comments/june 27 @ 11:56am - june 27 @ 1:54pm
http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/2005/06/27/mountain-brook-community-turns-out-for-natalee-holloway/#comments

12:28pm
26. Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon with his 12:30 AM posting

743 comments/june 27 @ 1:56pm - june 28 @ 10:29am
http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/2005/06/27/riehl-world-has-interesting-news/#comments

9:41pm
68. One straight path
to the house of Rave,
while of gold bricks
the road is not paved,
answers mysterious lie within
magical letter which spell
XTC DNA

601 comments/june 27 @ 11:20pm - october 10 @ 9:10am
http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/2005/06/27/natalee-holloway-evening-update/#comments

95 comments/june 28 @ 11:11am - june 28 @ 12:17pm
http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/2005/06/28/natalee-holloway-june-28-2005/#comments

926 comments/june 28 @ 12:20pm - june 28 @ 10:03pm
http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/2005/06/28/aruba-wil-hulp-van-nederlandaruba-wants-aid-of-the-netherlands/#comments

616 comments/june 28 @ 10:05pm - june 29 @ 10:37am
http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/2005/06/28/friend-of-monkey-talks-to-mickey-john/#comments

424 comments/june 29 @ 10:12am - june 29 @ 9:06pm
http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/2005/06/29/natalee-holloway-june-29-morning-update/#comments

306 comments/june 29 @ 3:01pm - june 29 @ 9:51pm
http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/2005/06/29/letter-writing-campaign/#comments

1010 comments/june 29 @ 9:38pm - july 1 @ 8:33am
http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/2005/06/29/msnbc/#comments

261 comments/june 30 @ 12:04pm - june 30 @ 2:29pm
http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/2005/06/30/natalee-holloway-june-30-2005/#comments

804 comments/june 30 @ 12:53pm - june 30 @ 9:57pm
http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/2005/06/30/kalpoe-family-denied-texas-equeesearch-from-searching-around-their-house/#comments

387 comments/june 30 @ 5:35pm - july 1 @ 1:16am
http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/2005/06/30/natalee-holloway-afternoon-update/#comments



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 23, 2008, 12:06:00 AM
Oh Finngirl, thank you so much.  You're an angel.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 23, 2008, 02:02:12 AM
she spent her nights at their tables



Hi Colombo - at one point, CAPS threw out a suggestion to us.  He felt that Natalee was the wrong girl that night and that she was a substitute.  He thought that it was Virginia who owed money, but "the bird flew away".  Virginia left Aruba on her grandfather's private jet the day before.  Is this possible?
Colombo - first off, I like the way you think!

SS - remember the gal who stayed in Nat's room a week prior, who's friend was buying drugs from the locals - and didn't pay up, so this Nat look-a-like was approached and scared big time to pay up - for her friend...yes, a case of mistaken identity.  Recalling also at the next hotel from the H.I. was a group of teens from Boston MA also celebrating their new found freedom...and I recall Nat and friends spent alot of time at that other hotel with the Bostonites.

And remember - Gretta said someone from Boston approached her, saying they had info on the case but would not solve the case ... didn't one of the two security guards initially picked up pre-joran and kalpoes - have a cute blonde Boston girlfriend???







Poochy…lots of ‘stuff’ in your posts to date! Would you mind please posting some references.  Example…the MB group spending time at another hotel, and the SG’s blonde girlfriend. I for one don't have time to google anymore than I am working on right now, and don't recall any reference to the GF being blonde.  TIA

I was thinking Prince Willem-Alexander…not sure how your Prince Pieter fits with your earlier reference to the Freemasons.

Do you have an opinion on ‘Freddy’ as the 5th suspect? Or maybe his internet proclaimed brother Ernesto?…Any on the Florida connections posted about recently? Again…TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on June 23, 2008, 09:30:20 AM
Finngirl - thanks for posting all of that. Two things you point out are quite interesting:

a) That they found her body, and codetalkers were so sure it would be in the news...but her fate was determined by a dirty cop - a poison siren. The copy who slammed the trunk down while Dave looked on perhaps?

b) Who could DirtyHand be?  - He is someone in the 'house of Babylon", he is known as papa VDS (van der stratan, vinnie da snitch (lol), etc), he is known to be dead, but Shango tells us DirtyHand is Alive - some don't come out of their den...remains hidden...So is this VDS someone who took exile to Aruba or is in a witness protection plan, ergo why all the FBI agents miraculously showed up for a missing teen, and why the F16 flyby?

c) What the heck is the House of Babylon? House of orange? Royal House? and is DirtyHand someone who is on the security staff?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on June 23, 2008, 09:32:51 AM

SS - At one time I had a "Boston" folder before my computer crashed a while ago. I will have to google sometime today but this is my recollection:

a) Husband died, so young blonde girl and her guy friend went to Aruba the week before Nat did, stayed in her room. Her guy friend was copping dope from a local and said the girl would be footing his drug tab. Local approached the girl, telling her to pay up or else, and scared her so much she fled off that island. I will try to find internet info.

b) Kids at hotel next door to H.I. were from Boston also celebrating their H.S. grad. Read Nat and friends hung out there alot because the music was better.

c) There was a Boston girl who was reported missing - was in all the news - said she was going to the movies - but they found her car in the airport then found her in Aruba. She didn't tell anybody, just flew and was reported missing by her family. I will find her name for you. I recall her name was the same name as a main character in an online game ...for whatever that piece of info is worth!

d) One of the security guards initially detained in the case said he had a girlfriend from Boston who would fly down to visit him.

I work full time, will try to find the related info for you-may not be able to get it all today but it is what I recall from my file on Boston.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 23, 2008, 10:00:57 AM
SS...Have a time-out from my dish company, but will try and get the Arambatzis stuff finished...maybe you can see a way to fit Lilian, Freddy and 2 Robbys into all of it! Hopefully I can post it later on...that is if they don't extend my time-out as daughter is doing home-work...LOL...DD pleaded with the fellow from India last night...but he didn't fall for my sweet blonde girl's pleas...said it was all auromated, he would if he could!...LOL

SS...sorry to respond to the main thread here, but I am really loading slow!  Do you think Jossy might fit His Lordship? TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 23, 2008, 10:07:43 AM
SS...Have a time-out from my dish company, but will try and get the Arambatzis stuff finished...maybe you can see a way to fit Lilian, Freddy and 2 Robbys into all of it! Hopefully I can post it later on...that is if they don't extend my time-out as daughter is doing home-work...LOL...DD pleaded with the fellow from India last night...but he didn't fall for my sweet blonde girl's pleas...said it was all auromated, he would if he could!...LOL

SS...sorry to respond to the main thread here, but I am really loading slow!  Do you think Jossy might fit His Lordship? TIA

I just hate it when I can't understand a word they are saying.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: WhiskeyGirl on June 23, 2008, 10:44:42 AM
I don't post much in the Shango/Simian thread because it is too scary   ::MonkeyShocked:: ::MonkeyNoNo::

I may read and try to follow along at times.

Simply put..."The House of Orange" = Dutch Royal Family

Quote
The House of Orange-Nassau (in Dutch: Huis van Oranje-Nassau), a branch of the German House of Nassau, has played a central role in the political life of the Netherlands — and at times in Europe — since William I of Orange (also known as "William the Silent" and "Father of the Fatherland") organized the Dutch revolt against Spanish rule, which after the Eighty Years' War led to an independent Dutch state.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Orange-Nassau

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_monarchy

(I always thought Anita looked like the Queen, mo)

http://www.geerts.com/holland/orange-house.htm

http://www.friesian.com/ross/orange.htm



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: WhiskeyGirl on June 23, 2008, 10:53:29 AM
The Prince of Orange

Quote
Willem-Alexander, The Prince of Orange (in Dutch: Z.K.H. de Prins van Oranje). (Dutch given name: Willem-Alexander Claus George Ferdinand; born April 27, 1967) is the eldest son of Queen Beatrix of the Netherlands and the heir apparent to the Dutch throne.

Willem-Alexander Claus George Ferdinand, Prince of Orange, Crown Prince of the Netherlands, Prince of Orange-Nassau, Jonkheer van Amsberg, is the eldest son of Queen Beatrix of the Netherlands and her late husband, Prince Claus of the Netherlands, Jonkheer van Amsberg. The Prince was born in Utrecht. His godparents are Prince Bernhard of the Netherlands (his grandfather), Prince Ferdinand von Bismarck, former Dutch Prime Minister Dr. Jelle Zijlstra, Gosta van Amsberg, Queen Margrethe II of Denmark (at the time Crown Princess of Denmark), and Renee Smith.  ...

Quote
Using the name "van Buren", one of the less well-known surnames of the House of Orange-Nassau, he has participated in the New York City Marathon, where his aunt, Princess Christina, and several cousins live. In the Netherlands, he was a participant in the Frisian Eleven Cities ice skating marathon.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willem-Alexander%2C_Prince_of_Orange

more here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Dutch_royalty


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on June 23, 2008, 11:31:28 AM

SS - At one time I had a "Boston" folder before my computer crashed a while ago. I will have to google sometime today but this is my recollection:

a) Husband died, so young blonde girl and her guy friend went to Aruba the week before Nat did, stayed in her room. Her guy friend was copping dope from a local and said the girl would be footing his drug tab. Local approached the girl, telling her to pay up or else, and scared her so much she fled off that island. I will try to find internet info.

b) Kids at hotel next door to H.I. were from Boston also celebrating their H.S. grad. Read Nat and friends hung out there alot because the music was better.

c) There was a Boston girl who was reported missing - was in all the news - said she was going to the movies - but they found her car in the airport then found her in Aruba. She didn't tell anybody, just flew and was reported missing by her family. I will find her name for you. I recall her name was the same name as a main character in an online game ...for whatever that piece of info is worth!

d) One of the security guards initially detained in the case said he had a girlfriend from Boston who would fly down to visit him.

I work full time, will try to find the related info for you-may not be able to get it all today but it is what I recall from my file on Boston.


SS - found all but one:

a).  http://www.scrux.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=180
Story from Diario January 20th 2006  Few days before the disappearance of Natalee Holloway a YOUNG AMERICAN WHO RESEMBLES NATALEE WAS THREATENED BY ONE FO THE SUSPECTED SECURITY GUARDS IN THIS CASE, ON THE WAY TO HER ROOM. Was staying in a room in front of Natalee Holloway - she looked like Natalee. Read entire story at link.

b).  Still checking.

c). ADRIENNE DELANEY - http://tinyurl.com/6mew4u

d). http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=345.0

6/5/2005 - Antonios Mickey John "On your question what I did there, I will answer you the following: I have a girlfriend who comes to Aruba from Boston. We met last year at the Allegro Hotel. Now that the Allegro Hotel is close, she stays somewhere in an apartment."



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 23, 2008, 11:39:43 AM
Surely, all of you know who this girlfriend is by now.   ::MonkeyCool::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on June 23, 2008, 11:41:30 AM
Anybody know if Mickey John at LION PAW PRODUCTIONS is the same Mickey John security guard? Mickey John sang on one of the Aru-bay Videos (the song was something like 'what does every boy want ahh um, ahh um !) ... and Mickey John also talked on another Aru-bay Video (a recording of his interview was played over the video).



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on June 23, 2008, 11:42:56 AM
Surely, all of you know who this girlfriend is by now.   ::MonkeyCool::

 ::MonkeyConfused::  I have no clue!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 23, 2008, 11:55:45 AM
Surely, all of you know who this girlfriend is by now.   ::MonkeyCool::



LaLa's - I feel like an idiot, but I don't know   ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 23, 2008, 11:58:24 AM
Poochy
Are you saying MJ was the voice on the Aru Bay videos?  How is that possible? Interesting.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 23, 2008, 11:59:31 AM
Surely, all of you know who this girlfriend is by now.   ::MonkeyCool::



LaLa's - I feel like an idiot, but I don't know   ::MonkeyHaHa::

YOu haven't been here long enough to know this.  You get a pass.  But I am not telling...I can't.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 23, 2008, 12:04:15 PM
SS...Have a time-out from my dish company, but will try and get the Arambatzis stuff finished...maybe you can see a way to fit Lilian, Freddy and 2 Robbys into all of it! Hopefully I can post it later on...that is if they don't extend my time-out as daughter is doing home-work...LOL...DD pleaded with the fellow from India last night...but he didn't fall for my sweet blonde girl's pleas...said it was all auromated, he would if he could!...LOL

SS...sorry to respond to the main thread here, but I am really loading slow!  Do you think Jossy might fit His Lordship? TIA

I just hate it when I can't understand a word they are saying.



O/T, but I have to share this.  A few weeks ago, I called Fedex for a package pickup.  Fedex was located less than 1/2 mile from my location.  I could barely understand the voice on the other end that was telling me it would be impossible for Fedex to pickup my package that day.  I asked where he was located and he told me El Salvador.  I delivered the package to Fedex in person.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 23, 2008, 12:24:10 PM
SS...Have a time-out from my dish company, but will try and get the Arambatzis stuff finished...maybe you can see a way to fit Lilian, Freddy and 2 Robbys into all of it! Hopefully I can post it later on...that is if they don't extend my time-out as daughter is doing home-work...LOL...DD pleaded with the fellow from India last night...but he didn't fall for my sweet blonde girl's pleas...said it was all auromated, he would if he could!...LOL

SS...sorry to respond to the main thread here, but I am really loading slow!  Do you think Jossy might fit His Lordship? TIA



It's certainly possible that JM could be His Lordship.  I originally thought that Rudy was Dirty Hand, but JM seems to have more power and the ability to reach into more parts of that island than Rudy does.  Dirty Hand seems to have a lot of power.  Shango also said that Dirty Hand doesn't take part in the Raves and we heard that Rudy imports girls from Venezuela.  I kind of eliminated Rudy based on the girls.  I am now wondering if Rudy is the Arawak King because of his brother Betico's high esteem and importance.  I went back and read the posts from June 27th, 2005 and I don't think that Dirty Hand is van der Stratten.  Shango made several statements in that post about someone of power helping with the search and then he also mentioned the chief of police.  I don't know if Shango meant that Babalu had all parts of the clue correct or if he had hit on part of it at 12:30.  I don't think van der Straten has that much power, but I could be completely off base.  It's typical Shango - yesterday I thought Rudy was Dirty Hand, and today I think it's JM.  ::MonkeyConfused::

Freddy is really getting under my skin and I want to know who he is.  Somebody, somewhere knows who he is.  Is the name Zedan a possible first name and Freddy just a nickname?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on June 23, 2008, 12:41:53 PM
Poochy
Are you saying MJ was the voice on the Aru Bay videos?  How is that possible? Interesting.

yup. There were many clues on those videos IMHO. Here's the interview where MJ says he was at soul beach.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_X1QfGcQfU     

And there's one where he sang the song 'what do every boy want". 

Did you know Sinbad, the commedian who ran the Soul Beach Music Festival on Aruba in 2005 - the name of his production company is called David and Goliath, because his real name is DAVID ADKINS. One of Aru-bay video's was entitled 'David and Goliath" - the one where the cruise ship is facing one way, a little boat facing the other, and the video pauses as if to make a trade...

I always wondered Sinbad was DirtyHand - because there was rumor that he was dead, and alot of hits on him being Alive as in 'Dirty hand is ALIVE like this one: -->

Who's Alive and Who's Dead: Sinbad (David Adkins)Who's Alive and Who's Dead: Sinbad (David Adkins) is ALIVE. This reference site helps you find out which famous people are alive and which are dead.
www.wa-wd.com/n/sinbad.htm - 9k - Cached - Similar pages  
 



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 23, 2008, 01:22:21 PM
Thanks Poochy. You have confirmed something I have thought for some time now...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 23, 2008, 01:23:48 PM
Surely, all of you know who this girlfriend is by now.   ::MonkeyCool::



LaLa's - I feel like an idiot, but I don't know   ::MonkeyHaHa::

YOu haven't been here long enough to know this.  You get a pass.  But I am not telling...I can't.



Pass it to me in a future post.   ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 23, 2008, 01:27:18 PM
Poochy,
I had heard that one before...I am confused now.  I always thought that was dubbed over that video from an interview.  I knew the video was made in an attempt to clear the SG.  I have often wondered about the person with the camera...a few dots I have left on that one that I will never be able to connect.  Do you know if that is part of the video or added to it at a later time?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on June 23, 2008, 01:38:27 PM
Poochy,
I had heard that one before...I am confused now.  I always thought that was dubbed over that video from an interview.  I knew the video was made in an attempt to clear the SG.  I have often wondered about the person with the camera...a few dots I have left on that one that I will never be able to connect.  Do you know if that is part of the video or added to it at a later time?

i should clarify - I don't think MJ cruned into the vid camera as it was being filmed. I think it was dubbed in after the film was shot.

i dont' think the video was made to clear anybody. I think it was made to document what might have happened to Natalee. If you listen to some of the music - at times it sounds 'woozy' as in drunk. I know that sounds funny, but I think everybody is afraid of someone on that island, and whether writing cryptically or filming clues - they want the truth to be told somehow.

As to your other q about if it was added at a later time, I can tell you I grabbed those videos about a day or two after the main one was taken down (unfortunately). On another computer that crashed they were not titled 'arub-bay #x" but had actual titles on the webpage, that's no longer around. But yes, the videos as poster Chicago510 pulled them down also are the original ones - nothing had been changed.

If you're familiar w/them, on one of the ones taken of the tattoo boat - early in the beginning of the first video the camera guy zooms into a young guy w/dark hair sitting at the bar... then the tattoo was immediately sold.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 23, 2008, 01:50:21 PM
Thanks Poochy.  Then I am not as confused as I thought.  That is always a good thing with a dummy like myself.  Yes, I remember that part on the Tattoo.  You have cleared it up for me.

Now, let's talk about Dirty Hand.  I have spent countless hours on the Shango riddles and one thing I do know is nothing is concrete so when you think you have dirty hand it can change with the latest known info. LOL 

Let's say JM is indeed the person.  How does that fit with what we know?  Yes, he would walk in all places...yes, he would know who provided escort that night after K2 left. Both vander Straaten and JM fit this scenario.  Then again Shango says he walked with the fallen elder...that does not fit.  So you have things that fit and things that don't.  Oh let's not forget there are many dirty hands and one that is Arawak Dirty Hand which I think is  Rudy Croes. JMO. I base that on info given by Tylergal many moons ago.  She was convinced he was Dirty Hand and she had a very reasonable argument to support it.   So many great minds thinking here. I just love this thread....but then again, I think everyone knows that by now.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Observer on June 23, 2008, 01:58:43 PM
The video was obviously dubbed and edited and I suspect that was done by Chris Hodge..AKA Pietjezz


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 23, 2008, 02:21:20 PM
The video was obviously dubbed and edited and I suspect that was done by Chris Hodge..AKA Pietjezz

Yes, Obs and who had an office near the Race Junkies in Aruba?  The dead reporter with her hand in her pocket.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on June 23, 2008, 02:24:38 PM
Lala'sMom,

I can't grasp JM as DirtyHand. But I do see JM always ignoring what the codetalkers have to say, and always pointing a finger at Joran. If Joran was the 'delivery boy", then in that respect JM would be protecting someone else who took over after Joran delivered his little package. JM always found witnesses that spotted Joran and Kalpoes. He is like Beth not wanting to look elsewhere. Maybe they are right, and we and codetalkers are wrong ?

Here all the 'DirtyHand' posts I have:  (regardless how you spell it upper/lower case DdHh): w/my added comments in RED CAPS BELOW.

a.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:42 pm
Arawaks hold singing card from Babylon.  There is also a trio. One Babylonian. 2 Shivas. Arawaks can’t let babylonian Card sing because hand holding it dirty too. Many teepees fall. No Wampum. Cowboys eat Sacrifice. Arawaks eat sacrifice. Dirty hand stays hidden, but all are well-fed. Cowboys happy, but unrest in the halls of the palace. Babylon owes the Arawaks!
(IMHO THERE WAS A "BABYLONIAN CARD" BEING HELD AT ANOTHER JAIL FACILITY - AND THEY CAN'T LET HIM 'SING' BECAUSE THE ONES HOLDING HIM ARE DIRTY ALSO. I BELIEVE THIS WAS THE 5TH SUSPECT - THE ONE WE NEVER HEARD ABOUT - THE SECRET ONE - NOT PAULUS OR LORENZO BUT A MYSTERY GUY).

b.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:50 pm
If Babylonian Card sings, all will fall. Teepees and the house of Babylon. We must have a sacrifice. Hide dirty hand. Light the fires!
(AND IF THIS BABYLONIAN CARD SINGS, ALL WILL FALL - SO GET JORAN AS THE SACRIFICE, AND HIDE DIRTY HAND)

c.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:53 pm
If Babylonian card sings ALL will fall. Teepees and the house of Babylon. If cowboys stay, after the sacrifice, everyone see dirty hand. No Wampum, Many Moons. Light the fires.

d.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:55 pm
If cowboys see dirty hand, many teepees fall. House of Babylon falls. we must have a sacrifice to feed the cowboys. they go back to the fort with no loot.
(IF COWBOYS SEE DIRTY HAND, NOTE, NOT IF THEY 'HEAR DIRTY HAND'... ) SO WHO IS THIS BEING HELD?  

e.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:32 m
The sacrifice is the correct food to appease the gods, arawaks, and cowboys but the foundations of the house of babylon will shake even harder if Arawak Dirty Hand is revealed.
[AGAIN, SHANGO REITERATES THAT THE CORRECT FOOD TO APPEASE EVERYBODY IS JORAN, THE SACRIFICE. THEY CANNOT REVEAL DIRTY HAND]

f.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:39 pm
Every tribe has bad Indians.  Every fort has bad cowboys.  If sirens sing a poison song, all will get sick.  [IF COPS TELL ABOUT THIS DIRTYHAND THEY ARE SECRETLY HOLDING - NOT GOOD] Arawaks and cowboys working well.  Arawaks fear wrath of cowboys for DirtyHand.  But babylonians live in teepees too.  If the house of babylon is to remain erect, it must protect the babylonians who have lived in teepees, among the arawaks, for a long time. babylon will agree to a sacrifice of newer teepee dwellers to prevent the story of dirtyhand being made public.  [NOBODY MUST KNOW ABOUT THE STORY OF DIRTYHAND - CANNOT BE MADE PUBLIC BUT MUST BE HIDDEN]  Dirtyhand scares arawaks too.  the sacrifice will be the correct sacrifice to appease the gods and cowboys.  cowboys will leave without loot.

g.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:54 pm
The Arawaks are not going to sacrifice a scapegoat. Babylon needs to allow one sacrifice to keep DirtyHand hidden. [JORAN THE SACRIFICE WILL KEEP DIRTYHAND HIDDEN]  Babylon scared of DirtyHand. Arawaks scared of DirtyHand. If sacrifice is made, teepees are safe, villagers and cowboys happy. If DirtyHand discovered, House of Babylon falls, Teepees crushed under great house [AGAIN, DIRTYHAND CANNOT BE DISCOVERED]

h.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:58 pm
Arawaks want to make cowboys happy. Babylonians want to maintain integrity of Great House.
Gods of the cowboys know there was a game in the great house, and so DirtyHand was discovered.[GODS OF COWBOYS = USA GOVT = CONDI RICE POSING W/BETH AND ALL THE FBI AGENTS ON ARUBA]  But the sacrifice will be offered before dirty hand sings. He will return to babylon, broken but anonymous. [DIRTYHAND WILL NOT SING, JORAN WILL BE THE OFFERED SACRIFICE, AND DIRTYHAND WILL RETURN BACK TO BABYLON]

i.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 6:02 pm
The babylonians are to blame. The arawaks were worried about teepees and the cowboys. They did not bring DirtyHand into the Tribe! He will go back to babylon broken, after the sacrifice is eaten [NOBODY INVITED DIRTYHAND TO COME ONTO ARUBA]

j.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 6:04 pm
If DirtyHand sings, sacrifice will still be eaten. [EVEN IF DIRTYHAND TALKS, JORAN WILL BE SACRIFICED] But there will be many more people at the feast, and the cowboys would resent the Arawaks for Babylons interference.

k.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 6:13 pm
His lordship did not bring the key, it does not exist. doors to eden remain closed. The arawaks hold the singing cards. They have the babylonian and 2 shivas. But the other card is dirty. Even if you play cards in the house of babylon as an arawak, you still have DirtyHand. If DirtyHand comes out of hiding, Babylon will fall and the cowboys will circle the wagons. DirtyHand can destroy the Arawaks and Babylon. Better to prepare the sacrifice quickly so the cowboys go home ….without the loot

l.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 6:19 pm
There are many DirtyHands among the Arawak, and so it has been for centuries.

m.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 6:28 pm
All preceding stated is verifiable.  DirtyHand is well known.  there will be a sacrifice.  the gods have been talking. the fires have been lit. the cowboys will go back to the fort without the loot that is why they are preparing the sacrifice All fear DirtyHand. Arawaks and Babylon. I must go feed the messengers

n.   Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 8:04 pm
The young Lamb der Sloot shall be the sacrifice for the Arawaks and the cowboys. All will sit around the fire and feast on scapegoat. The gods are talking. DirtyHand is alive and well. [SO WHO IS THIS DIRTYHAND WHO WAS TO BE PRESUMED SICK AND THEN DEAD, BUT IS ALIVE AND WELL?]

o.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 8:25 pm
The Arawaks want the truth to come out. As long as DirtyHand is not found. Aruba is preserved and Babylon will pay the price. the gods know that the blame lies on Babylon. the cowboys will go back to the fort without the loot

p.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:19 pm
DirtyHand is not an Arawak. [NOT A NATIVE TO ARUBA]  The singing card can not be played. The cowboys would circle the wagons. The arawaks are preparing the sacrifice. light the fires. the gods are talking.

q.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:32 pm
His lordship is there to preserve Babylon. not the elder. remember dirtyhand.

r.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:35 pm
DirtyHand is not an Arawak. Many pioneers have settled with the tribe.

s.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:48 pm
The card of babylon was already played. if it sings, DirtyHand will bring down the Royal House on top of the Arawak Nation. [DIRTYHAND IS THE BABYLON CARD. IF DIRTYHAND TALKS THE ROYAL HOUSE WILL COME DOWN HARD ON ARUBA]  the gods have handed down a pipe of peace, but a sacrifice will be made. Some elders of the game, not just of babylon walk in older circles. cowboys hear the singing, but the words are not understood. The gods and the babylonians are worried about the cowboys response.

t.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 8:27 pm
DirtyHand and the fallen judge may not be crucified. the gods are talking. [THE FALLEN JUDGE IS PAULUS? WAS PAULUS A JUDGE WHEN SHANGO WROTE THIS? OR IS THE JUDGE DE WITT?]

u.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:55 pm
DirtyHand walks with the elders. Babylon knows.

v.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:58 pm
DirtyHand knows the Babylonians that provided escort after the 2 shivas left. [THIS IS WHAT DIRTYHAND KNOWS - AND CAN SING - THE NAMES OF THE BABYLONIANS (PLURAL) WHO ESCORTED NATALEE WHEN KALPOES LEFT]

w.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:04 pm
Are the children of the elders there, or did they flee to Babylon? [THIS EXPLAINS WHO THE ELDERS ARE - FATHERS OF THE KIDS WHO FLED ARUBA]  DirtyHand knows, this is his Power. there will be 46 sacrifices. [46 HOTELS WERE ON ARUBA AT THE TIME SHANGO WROTE THIS]

x.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:16 pm
Mary was not a Virgin. The Arawaks know. The cowboys know. DirtyHand can break the Alibi, he walks all circles. The Simian knows this

y.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:18 pm
If the Alibi is broken by DirtyHand the walls of Babylon will shake.

z.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:30 pm
You always find forbidden desires in the small houses of Babylon. the girl knew this. Find DirtyHand! He too walked in this house of Babylon. But not to satiate desire.  [DIRTYHAND WAS PRESENT WHEN ALL THIS WENT DOWN AND IS AN EYE WITNESS]

aa.   Shango Says:June 26th, 2005 at 10:48 pm
Coverups begin with elders [CROMVORT SECURITY, ETC]  and the founders of the houses of Babylon. [INTERESTING - FOUNDERS OF THE HOUSES OF BABYLON] Not the minions. DirtyHand knows this.

bb.   Shango Says:June 26th, 2005 at 10:53 pm
DirtyHand is the key. He walks with the elders. He walks in all houses. And he walked with the fallen elder. he was the hidden card that was played. now if he sings, babylon will fall on the arawak nation

cc.   Shango Says:June 26th, 2005 at 11:05 pm
DirtyHand has worked for the elders  for a long time. [DIRTYHAND IS UNDER THE ELDERS - HAS WORKED FOR THEM]

dd.   Shango Says:June 27th , 2005 at 9:44 pm
Babalu opened a window looking into babylon on his 12:31 A.M. Post  DirtyHand is alive.

ee.   Shango Says:June 27th , 2005 at 9:48 pm
Babalu knew who dirty hand was at half past 12

ff.   Shango Says:June 27th , 2005 at 9:51 pm
DirtyHand walks with the Babylons, the Arawaks and is consort to the fallen elder
The gods are talking

gg.   Shango Says:June 27th , 2005 at 9:59 pm
DirtyHand can bring down all houses. DirtyHand is the key. His reach is long. He walks in all circles. consort to all, except for the gods. He knows the sacrifice is not responsible

hh.   Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:05 pm
The dice throwers know the maze of the rave and the fly that entered the trap. DirtyHand is the key. He walks in many circles.

ii.   Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:09 pm
Young Babylonians and Shivas do not build sand castles. DirtyHand knows this. Children of the Elders play in the maze, but DirtyHand is afraid to rave

jj.   Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:49 pm
The maze offers many hidden desires deflowerings of forbidden fruits. DirtyHand knows. So does the elder. The lamb is a scapegoat.

kk.   Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:52 pm
DirtyHand has walked through the maze. He knows of the forbidden fruit and the gardeners.

ll.   Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:18 pm
DirtyHand does not play with the lions. but he has entered the maze. the lamb is a scapegoat. DirtyHand knows. So does the Elder.

mm.   Shango Says:June 27th, 2005 at 11:26 pm
The Arawaks will not enter the maze unless the cowboys refuse the peace pipe. Follow the music, the lions are not tame. DirtyHand knows, so does the elder.

nn.   Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:43 pm
Mary rolled into the maze to play with lions but it was not a game. the lamb ran bleating afraid to walk through the maze. why don’t the arawaks ambush the lions? The cowboys don’t know.
DirtyHand knows, but is afraid of the Arawak Nation. The gods are talking

oo.   Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 12:39 am
The threadsurfers are opening the door to Babylon. be careful of the lions. DirtyHand does not have them tamed but he can enter the den. tell the cowboys.

pp.   Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 2:59 am
The Simian Doppleganger is upset because the arawak nation is hiding the truth from the cowboys. DirtyHand knows. Simian knows. The Simian stated for 2 days, the key would come from the hague the next day. Shango said no two times. Is Simian a DirtyHand too. Has the Simian played with the lions in the houses of ill-repute and poison notes where the innocent flies are lured? Has the Simian, primate that he is, fed with the other animals? Back ye fetid mongrel, as the 46th are you; delegate of the 7th level of inferno, not birthed, but spewed from the dark chasm of a nightmare!

qq.   Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:13 pm
1. Lucy spoke at 10:56 # Lucy Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:56 pm
Someone said last night that Dirty Hand was somebody in the police.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Observer on June 23, 2008, 02:34:04 PM
The video was obviously dubbed and edited and I suspect that was done by Chris Hodge..AKA Pietjezz

Yes, Obs and who had an office near the Race Junkies in Aruba?  The dead reporter with her hand in her pocket.
I am not aware of a office,but I am aware of what this man has said in private and his relations with Ed Smith who filmed the video. Also,I am in contact with that reporters family,it was not her that hung herself with one hand in her pocket but it was her camera man Camilo. Her picture was the one with a bed spread over her on top of the wall. I have them all saved and have done as much research as I can without getting on the phone and calling people.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on June 23, 2008, 02:47:55 PM
The video was obviously dubbed and edited and I suspect that was done by Chris Hodge..AKA Pietjezz

Yes, Obs and who had an office near the Race Junkies in Aruba?  The dead reporter with her hand in her pocket.
I am not aware of a office,but I am aware of what this man has said in private and his relations with Ed Smith who filmed the video. Also,I am in contact with that reporters family,it was not her that hung herself with one hand in her pocket but it was her camera man Camilo. Her picture was the one with a bed spread over her on top of the wall. I have them all saved and have done as much research as I can without getting on the phone and calling people.

I know I pulled them off of the website www.aru-bay.com (see the archive http://www.archive.org/index.php ) when we were all informed they were there. There were many other aru-bay videos posted that were non-Natalee related. I grabbed them around the end of August 05. Mickey John's voice was there, so was his musical recording overlayed on the tape. I also heard about some folks contacting the site owner, but I don't know what became of it, nor know them personally. I was asked to do an in-depth analysis of each tape, which I did and handed over to a family member. A poster Chicago510 pulled them off also, which is why they were also know as the 'Chicago510 videos'.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 23, 2008, 02:52:14 PM
FYI...Mum is fighting with her internet provider at the moment and can't answer or post her info. LOL  Seems living in the boonies has it's drawbacks.  She will be here as soon as she can to post the info as promised.




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 23, 2008, 02:53:24 PM
Well I am aware of an office...reliable source of info.  Lives there. Works in building next door.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on June 23, 2008, 02:57:02 PM
Can't find the aru-bay video with MJ's song, but here's the song being played on the coffeepotghost!

http://www.coffeepotghost.com/NATALEE_HOLLOWAY_CASE_index.html



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Observer on June 23, 2008, 02:59:55 PM
Well I am aware of an office...reliable source of info.  Lives there. Works in building next door.
Who? Ed Smith?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on June 23, 2008, 03:45:03 PM
This is in reference to if Paulus was in fact a 'judge' when Shango wrote his prose, making him a 'fallen judge".
The article was dated Monday, June 27, 2005

http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2005/06/paul_van_der_sl_1.html

"...Two years ago Van der Sloot Ditch got the opportunity to become a judge. With his background that meant that he had follow a training course of three years. During that training period, he was appointed as a substitute judge in the Antillean court. Van der Sloot completed the training period of a year in the Netherlands recently but he has not conducted a court(hearing) yet. "


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 23, 2008, 03:50:17 PM
Poochy - I have two questions for you...

1.  Is your beautiful dog a Bearded Collie?  I had the regular Collies for years.

2.  Where have you been all this time?  We can certainly use your help.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 23, 2008, 03:53:05 PM
This is in reference to if Paulus was in fact a 'judge' when Shango wrote his prose, making him a 'fallen judge".
The article was dated Monday, June 27, 2005

http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2005/06/paul_van_der_sl_1.html

"...Two years ago Van der Sloot Ditch got the opportunity to become a judge. With his background that meant that he had follow a training course of three years. During that training period, he was appointed as a substitute judge in the Antillean court. Van der Sloot completed the training period of a year in the Netherlands recently but he has not conducted a court(hearing) yet. "




I had read that he went to Holland for three months to study for the exam, but in March, prior to Natalee's disappearance, he failed the exam.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 23, 2008, 03:54:00 PM
Well I am aware of an office...reliable source of info.  Lives there. Works in building next door.
Who? Ed Smith?

Don't know Ed Smith...know of him, but not personally.  I also read about this office way back when...of course I couldn't find it now if my life depended on it. LOL  That is why I asked my source.  You know how sources are...some good...some bad.  Doesn't matter anyway.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on June 23, 2008, 04:08:27 PM
Poochy - I have two questions for you...

1.  Is your beautiful dog a Bearded Collie?  I had the regular Collies for years.

2.  Where have you been all this time?  We can certainly use your help.

SS - She's a Coton de Tulear, a cousin of the Bichon Frise. This is just a pic I got off the net. My baby is almost a year old and I'll upload a pic when I get a chance. The Coton's hair is just that - like one giant cotton ball and you have to keep up with it. In 3 years the cotton fur turns to real hair, a bit more manageable. Coton's are not akc registered here -- too afraid the puppy mills will get a hold of the breed as their hair doesn't shed, just like a Bichon. 

Where have I been? I've been trying to get into the cage,  that's where I've been LOL! Thanks to the help of some posters I can finally chat w/ya. Been reading and enjoying your posts for quite a while! It's so nice to chat and contribute all this "useless codetalker knowledge" I have compiled about this case w/regard to codetalkers.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 23, 2008, 04:13:25 PM
Lala'sMom,

I can't grasp JM as DirtyHand. But I do see JM always ignoring what the codetalkers have to say, and always pointing a finger at Joran. If Joran was the 'delivery boy", then in that respect JM would be protecting someone else who took over after Joran delivered his little package. JM always found witnesses that spotted Joran and Kalpoes. He is like Beth not wanting to look elsewhere. Maybe they are right, and we and codetalkers are wrong ?

Here all the 'DirtyHand' posts I have:  (regardless how you spell it upper/lower case DdHh): w/my added comments in RED CAPS BELOW.

a.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:42 pm
Arawaks hold singing card from Babylon.  There is also a trio. One Babylonian. 2 Shivas. Arawaks can’t let babylonian Card sing because hand holding it dirty too. Many teepees fall. No Wampum. Cowboys eat Sacrifice. Arawaks eat sacrifice. Dirty hand stays hidden, but all are well-fed. Cowboys happy, but unrest in the halls of the palace. Babylon owes the Arawaks!
(IMHO THERE WAS A "BABYLONIAN CARD" BEING HELD AT ANOTHER JAIL FACILITY - AND THEY CAN'T LET HIM 'SING' BECAUSE THE ONES HOLDING HIM ARE DIRTY ALSO. I BELIEVE THIS WAS THE 5TH SUSPECT - THE ONE WE NEVER HEARD ABOUT - THE SECRET ONE - NOT PAULUS OR LORENZO BUT A MYSTERY GUY). This would be Freddy, IMO.  He was arrested early on, several posters in Aruba stated that as fact and they were not just Julia and the likes. It was also on the radio and such. He was held somewhere and kept quiet.  Several think it is Steve Croes, but he wasn't arrested by then.  Only Freddy's name keeps popping up at this point with various sources and posters at that time.

b.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:50 pm
If Babylonian Card sings, all will fall. Teepees and the house of Babylon. We must have a sacrifice. Hide dirty hand. Light the fires!
(AND IF THIS BABYLONIAN CARD SINGS, ALL WILL FALL - SO GET JORAN AS THE SACRIFICE, AND HIDE DIRTY HAND) My contention is this person knew what happened that night because they were there...remember the alibi worked NOT for the Sloots.  "Who said the alibi worked for the Sloots?"

c.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:53 pm
If Babylonian card sings ALL will fall. Teepees and the house of Babylon. If cowboys stay, after the sacrifice, everyone see dirty hand. No Wampum, Many Moons. Light the fires.

d.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:55 pm
If cowboys see dirty hand, many teepees fall. House of Babylon falls. we must have a sacrifice to feed the cowboys. they go back to the fort with no loot.
(IF COWBOYS SEE DIRTY HAND, NOTE, NOT IF THEY 'HEAR DIRTY HAND'... ) SO WHO IS THIS BEING HELD?  Are you saying that this person being held is a dirty hand?  I have often thought that and I think Colombo thinks that as well.

e.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:32 m
The sacrifice is the correct food to appease the gods, arawaks, and cowboys but the foundations of the house of babylon will shake even harder if Arawak Dirty Hand is revealed.
[AGAIN, SHANGO REITERATES THAT THE CORRECT FOOD TO APPEASE EVERYBODY IS JORAN, THE SACRIFICE. THEY CANNOT REVEAL DIRTY HAND] Shango says that Joran is who they need to punish in order to make everyone happy.  He does not say he is the killer, he says he is a scapegoat.  That does not indicate pointing the finger at Joran as guilty. In fact, it tells me the opposite.  Shango did not think J2K were guilty of anything except delivering the girl.

f.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:39 pm
Every tribe has bad Indians.  Every fort has bad cowboys.  If sirens sing a poison song, all will get sick.  [IF COPS TELL ABOUT THIS DIRTYHAND THEY ARE SECRETLY HOLDING - NOT GOOD] Arawaks and cowboys working well.  Arawaks fear wrath of cowboys for DirtyHand.  But babylonians live in teepees too.  If the house of babylon is to remain erect, it must protect the babylonians who have lived in teepees, among the arawaks, for a long time. babylon will agree to a sacrifice of newer teepee dwellers to prevent the story of dirtyhand being made public.  [NOBODY MUST KNOW ABOUT THE STORY OF DIRTYHAND - CANNOT BE MADE PUBLIC BUT MUST BE HIDDEN]  Dirtyhand scares arawaks too.  the sacrifice will be the correct sacrifice to appease the gods and cowboys.  cowboys will leave without loot. DH would have to be someone we all know and it would blow the lid off everything.  Well, the corruption is being peeled away layer by layer now. Still thinking vander Straten, at the time of Shango posting, would have been the likley choice.

g.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:54 pm
The Arawaks are not going to sacrifice a scapegoat. Babylon needs to allow one sacrifice to keep DirtyHand hidden. [JORAN THE SACRIFICE WILL KEEP DIRTYHAND HIDDEN]  Babylon scared of DirtyHand. Arawaks scared of DirtyHand. If sacrifice is made, teepees are safe, villagers and cowboys happy. If DirtyHand discovered, House of Babylon falls, Teepees crushed under great house [AGAIN, DIRTYHAND CANNOT BE DISCOVERED] Who ever is dirty hand would have to have had the ability to help Joran get a lighter sentence or time served in some way so as to prevent his being revealed.  Paulus could arrange that knowing who dirty hand was.

h.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:58 pm
Arawaks want to make cowboys happy. Babylonians want to maintain integrity of Great House.
Gods of the cowboys know there was a game in the great house, and so DirtyHand was discovered.[GODS OF COWBOYS = USA GOVT = CONDI RICE POSING W/BETH AND ALL THE FBI AGENTS ON ARUBA]  But the sacrifice will be offered before dirty hand sings. He will return to babylon, broken but anonymous. [DIRTYHAND WILL NOT SING, JORAN WILL BE THE OFFERED SACRIFICE, AND DIRTYHAND WILL RETURN BACK TO BABYLON]

i.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 6:02 pm
The babylonians are to blame. The arawaks were worried about teepees and the cowboys. They did not bring DirtyHand into the Tribe! He will go back to babylon broken, after the sacrifice is eaten [NOBODY INVITED DIRTYHAND TO COME ONTO ARUBA]

j.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 6:04 pm
If DirtyHand sings, sacrifice will still be eaten. [EVEN IF DIRTYHAND TALKS, JORAN WILL BE SACRIFICED] But there will be many more people at the feast, and the cowboys would resent the Arawaks for Babylons interference.  This tells me that Shango had an inkling that dirty hand might be found out and have to talk.  It would not matter by this time on June 26 because Joran would still pay the price.  That always gives me pause, because Shango sounds almost sorry that Joran would be punished.

k.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 6:13 pm
His lordship did not bring the key, it does not exist. doors to eden remain closed. The arawaks hold the singing cards. They have the babylonian and 2 shivas. But the other card is dirty. Even if you play cards in the house of babylon as an arawak, you still have DirtyHand. If DirtyHand comes out of hiding, Babylon will fall and the cowboys will circle the wagons. DirtyHand can destroy the Arawaks and Babylon. Better to prepare the sacrifice quickly so the cowboys go home ….without the loot

l.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 6:19 pm
There are many DirtyHands among the Arawak, and so it has been for centuries. These are the corrupt officials that have held Aruba in its grip for so long...that includes mafia connections also.

m.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 6:28 pm
All preceding stated is verifiable.  DirtyHand is well known.  there will be a sacrifice.  the gods have been talking. the fires have been lit. the cowboys will go back to the fort without the loot that is why they are preparing the sacrifice All fear DirtyHand. Arawaks and Babylon. I must go feed the messengers Shango says that all we need to do is check it out...it's all there to find out. We never looked in the right directions at the time.  Seemed too far fetched,now it's too late to retrieve some of this info from back then.

n.   Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 8:04 pm
The young Lamb der Sloot shall be the sacrifice for the Arawaks and the cowboys. All will sit around the fire and feast on scapegoat. The gods are talking. DirtyHand is alive and well. [SO WHO IS THIS DIRTYHAND WHO WAS TO BE PRESUMED SICK AND THEN DEAD, BUT IS ALIVE AND WELL?] Who said they thought Dirty Hand was sick?  I never have seen that in the posts in context.  I must have missed it.

o.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 8:25 pm
The Arawaks want the truth to come out. As long as DirtyHand is not found. Aruba is preserved and Babylon will pay the price. the gods know that the blame lies on Babylon. the cowboys will go back to the fort without the loot

p.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:19 pm
DirtyHand is not an Arawak. [NOT A NATIVE TO ARUBA]  The singing card can not be played. The cowboys would circle the wagons. The arawaks are preparing the sacrifice. light the fires. the gods are talking.

q.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:32 pm
His lordship is there to preserve Babylon. not the elder. remember dirtyhand.

r.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:35 pm
DirtyHand is not an Arawak. Many pioneers have settled with the tribe.

s.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:48 pm
The card of babylon was already played. if it sings, DirtyHand will bring down the Royal House on top of the Arawak Nation. [DIRTYHAND IS THE BABYLON CARD. IF DIRTYHAND TALKS THE ROYAL HOUSE WILL COME DOWN HARD ON ARUBA]  the gods have handed down a pipe of peace, but a sacrifice will be made. Some elders of the game, not just of babylon walk in older circles. cowboys hear the singing, but the words are not understood. The gods and the babylonians are worried about the cowboys response.

t.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 8:27 pm
DirtyHand and the fallen judge may not be crucified. the gods are talking. [THE FALLEN JUDGE IS PAULUS? WAS PAULUS A JUDGE WHEN SHANGO WROTE THIS? OR IS THE JUDGE DE WITT?] Paulus would be the fallen judge as well as the fallen elder.  I think Shango interchanged his terms here.  Actually, it could have been someone else that posted as Shango at the time and didn't use the same terminology as the first Shango or knew him as a judge and subliminally let it slip.

u.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:55 pm
DirtyHand walks with the elders. Babylon knows.

v.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:58 pm
DirtyHand knows the Babylonians that provided escort after the 2 shivas left. [THIS IS WHAT DIRTYHAND KNOWS - AND CAN SING - THE NAMES OF THE BABYLONIANS (PLURAL) WHO ESCORTED NATALEE WHEN KALPOES LEFT]

w.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:04 pm
Are the children of the elders there, or did they flee to Babylon? [THIS EXPLAINS WHO THE ELDERS ARE - FATHERS OF THE KIDS WHO FLED ARUBA]  DirtyHand knows, this is his Power. there will be 46 sacrifices. [46 HOTELS WERE ON ARUBA AT THE TIME SHANGO WROTE THIS]

x.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:16 pm
Mary was not a Virgin. The Arawaks know. The cowboys know. DirtyHand can break the Alibi, he walks all circles. The Simian knows this

y.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:18 pm
If the Alibi is broken by DirtyHand the walls of Babylon will shake.

z.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:30 pm
You always find forbidden desires in the small houses of Babylon. the girl knew this. Find DirtyHand! He too walked in this house of Babylon. But not to satiate desire.  [DIRTYHAND WAS PRESENT WHEN ALL THIS WENT DOWN AND IS AN EYE WITNESS]

aa.   Shango Says:June 26th, 2005 at 10:48 pm
Coverups begin with elders [CROMVORT SECURITY, ETC]  and the founders of the houses of Babylon. [INTERESTING - FOUNDERS OF THE HOUSES OF BABYLON] Not the minions. DirtyHand knows this.

bb.   Shango Says:June 26th, 2005 at 10:53 pm
DirtyHand is the key. He walks with the elders. He walks in all houses. And he walked with the fallen elder. he was the hidden card that was played. now if he sings, babylon will fall on the arawak nation

cc.   Shango Says:June 26th, 2005 at 11:05 pm
DirtyHand has worked for the elders  for a long time. [DIRTYHAND IS UNDER THE ELDERS - HAS WORKED FOR THEM]

dd.   Shango Says:June 27th , 2005 at 9:44 pm
Babalu opened a window looking into babylon on his 12:31 A.M. Post  DirtyHand is alive.

ee.   Shango Says:June 27th , 2005 at 9:48 pm
Babalu knew who dirty hand was at half past 12

ff.   Shango Says:June 27th , 2005 at 9:51 pm
DirtyHand walks with the Babylons, the Arawaks and is consort to the fallen elder
The gods are talking

gg.   Shango Says:June 27th , 2005 at 9:59 pm
DirtyHand can bring down all houses. DirtyHand is the key. His reach is long. He walks in all circles. consort to all, except for the gods. He knows the sacrifice is not responsible

hh.   Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:05 pm
The dice throwers know the maze of the rave and the fly that entered the trap. DirtyHand is the key. He walks in many circles.

ii.   Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:09 pm
Young Babylonians and Shivas do not build sand castles. DirtyHand knows this. Children of the Elders play in the maze, but DirtyHand is afraid to rave

jj.   Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:49 pm
The maze offers many hidden desires deflowerings of forbidden fruits. DirtyHand knows. So does the elder. The lamb is a scapegoat.

kk.   Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:52 pm
DirtyHand has walked through the maze. He knows of the forbidden fruit and the gardeners.

ll.   Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:18 pm
DirtyHand does not play with the lions. but he has entered the maze. the lamb is a scapegoat. DirtyHand knows. So does the Elder.

mm.   Shango Says:June 27th, 2005 at 11:26 pm
The Arawaks will not enter the maze unless the cowboys refuse the peace pipe. Follow the music, the lions are not tame. DirtyHand knows, so does the elder.

nn.   Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:43 pm
Mary rolled into the maze to play with lions but it was not a game. the lamb ran bleating afraid to walk through the maze. why don’t the arawaks ambush the lions? The cowboys don’t know.
DirtyHand knows, but is afraid of the Arawak Nation. The gods are talking

oo.   Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 12:39 am
The threadsurfers are opening the door to Babylon. be careful of the lions. DirtyHand does not have them tamed but he can enter the den. tell the cowboys.

pp.   Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 2:59 am
The Simian Doppleganger is upset because the arawak nation is hiding the truth from the cowboys. DirtyHand knows. Simian knows. The Simian stated for 2 days, the key would come from the hague the next day. Shango said no two times. Is Simian a DirtyHand too. Has the Simian played with the lions in the houses of ill-repute and poison notes where the innocent flies are lured? Has the Simian, primate that he is, fed with the other animals? Back ye fetid mongrel, as the 46th are you; delegate of the 7th level of inferno, not birthed, but spewed from the dark chasm of a nightmare!

qq.   Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:13 pm
1. Lucy spoke at 10:56 # Lucy Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:56 pm
Someone said last night that Dirty Hand was somebody in the police.


Not to sound snooty here, but I have seen this version before.  I bet it was your work then too. You would have to be a Codetalker to be able to jump right in like this.  I am glad you are here. Where have you been? LOL I do however have a few things I don't agree with, but overall goes with what I know to be reasonably accurate.  I wrote my answers in blue.  Thanks for the discussion...it's been a while in here that we took it piece by piece.  Now, have you read Caps interpretation?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on June 23, 2008, 04:28:01 PM
Lala'sMom,

I compiled the original 122 page word document 'Categorized Codetalkers' - It was from that word doc I cut and pasted DirtyHand. If you want a copy of that word doc IM me w/your email address (can we do that on this board??).
I put that together for the Holloways a while back.
 
I like your input (in blue). It all makes for a great discussion. I know you took it apart cuz I've been reading all about it on this thread! And no, I don't think I saw CapsLW's interpretation. Got a link?

The 'Dan in Tx' version that unfortunately Dave H. quoted in his book always bothered me and it's nice to see others thinking outside of the box.

So Freddy is the 5th suspect. But wasn't the 5th supposed to be the b'friend from earlier in the week?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on June 23, 2008, 04:34:20 PM
Lala'sMom -

regarding this :

n.   Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 8:04 pm
The young Lamb der Sloot shall be the sacrifice for the Arawaks and the cowboys. All will sit around the fire and feast on scapegoat. The gods are talking. DirtyHand is alive and well. [SO WHO IS THIS DIRTYHAND WHO WAS TO BE PRESUMED SICK AND THEN DEAD, BUT IS ALIVE AND WELL?]  Who said they thought Dirty Hand was sick?  I never have seen that in the posts in context.  I must have missed it.

I felt that when Shango wrote "DirtyHand is alive and well." it meant that Dirtyhand is not sick and then presumed to be dead, but is well (not sick) and quite alive (not dead). Like F. Castro - we were told he was sick and then dying on the news... maybe someone in the news like that, but is very much well, very much alive and hiding out (some Lions don't leave their den).
 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on June 23, 2008, 04:46:56 PM
Lala'sMom -

regarding this :

n.   Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 8:04 pm
The young Lamb der Sloot shall be the sacrifice for the Arawaks and the cowboys. All will sit around the fire and feast on scapegoat. The gods are talking. DirtyHand is alive and well. [SO WHO IS THIS DIRTYHAND WHO WAS TO BE PRESUMED SICK AND THEN DEAD, BUT IS ALIVE AND WELL?]  Who said they thought Dirty Hand was sick?  I never have seen that in the posts in context.  I must have missed it.

I felt that when Shango wrote "DirtyHand is alive and well." it meant that Dirtyhand is not sick and then presumed to be dead, but is well (not sick) and quite alive (not dead). Like F. Castro - we were told he was sick and then dying on the news... maybe someone in the news like that, but is very much well, very much alive and hiding out (some Lions don't leave their den).
 


Here's some DH info I cannot take credit for that I want to add to this thread. I was on a private site a while ago when this was posted. It goes to show you we can play with these word puzzles until we are blue in the face!


DirtyHand = Bin Laden - as in Honey LADEN notes.
The Gods of the cowboys (white house) know a game was played
Bin L. smuggling arms into Aruba for Colombia  (all the Gamblers were up in ARMS)...
Hidden in Plainview (shipped out in Aloe product containers-Posnr owns Plainview Aloe, right?)
What is the real export of the island? ARMS. Gamblers are up in ARMS.
DirtyHand cannot be known, must remain hidden. Cripes who would vacation on Aruba!
Condi Rice is now involved...the pic of her and Beth was meant to warn someone!
Babylonian Card knows cronies of DirtyHand Bin L.
Nobody invited DirtyHand to come to Aruba
.

Now somebody like Bin L. would make me flee off of Aruba!


 




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 23, 2008, 05:36:32 PM
Would someone please tell George Bush that we're looking in the wrong place?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Blonde on June 23, 2008, 05:54:06 PM
she spent her nights at their tables



Hi Colombo - at one point, CAPS threw out a suggestion to us.  He felt that Natalee was the wrong girl that night and that she was a substitute.  He thought that it was Virginia who owed money, but "the bird flew away".  Virginia left Aruba on her grandfather's private jet the day before.  Is this possible?

They do look alike SS

(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/MBrook/sy5jx0.jpg)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: hotping on June 23, 2008, 06:02:02 PM
she spent her nights at their tables



Hi Colombo - at one point, CAPS threw out a suggestion to us.  He felt that Natalee was the wrong girl that night and that she was a substitute.  He thought that it was Virginia who owed money, but "the bird flew away".  Virginia left Aruba on her grandfather's private jet the day before.  Is this possible?

They do look alike SS

(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/MBrook/sy5jx0.jpg)
SS..I believe its very possible....Blonde Thanks for posting the Pic...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 23, 2008, 06:08:08 PM
d.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:55 pm
If cowboys see dirty hand, many teepees fall. House of Babylon falls. we must have a sacrifice to feed the cowboys. they go back to the fort with no loot.
(IF COWBOYS SEE DIRTY HAND, NOTE, NOT IF THEY 'HEAR DIRTY HAND'... ) SO WHO IS THIS BEING HELD? Are you saying that this person being held is a dirty hand?  I have often thought that and I think Colombo thinks that as well.



I did a cut and paste so I wouldn't have to bring the entire post over to this page.  Poochy, if Dirty Hand was being held, does this mean that he could also be the 5th suspect?  Is this someone other than Freddy or Lorenzo?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 23, 2008, 06:14:43 PM
she spent her nights at their tables



Hi Colombo - at one point, CAPS threw out a suggestion to us.  He felt that Natalee was the wrong girl that night and that she was a substitute.  He thought that it was Virginia who owed money, but "the bird flew away".  Virginia left Aruba on her grandfather's private jet the day before.  Is this possible?

They do look alike SS

(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/MBrook/sy5jx0.jpg)
SS..I believe its very possible....Blonde Thanks for posting the Pic...



Wow, they really do look alike.  I wonder if Urine was sent to get Virginia, not knowing that she had already left, and then took Natalee because he knew that the event was planned and the participants were waiting for the girl.  If I recall, CAPS also mentioned something about two parties and two girls, but he never explained anything further.  Have any of the other MB girls ever mentioned anything about going to a party?  Poochy, did the girls from Boston go to a party or did any of them have problems with the locals?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on June 23, 2008, 06:52:54 PM
d.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:55 pm
If cowboys see dirty hand, many teepees fall. House of Babylon falls. we must have a sacrifice to feed the cowboys. they go back to the fort with no loot.
(IF COWBOYS SEE DIRTY HAND, NOTE, NOT IF THEY 'HEAR DIRTY HAND'... ) SO WHO IS THIS BEING HELD? Are you saying that this person being held is a dirty hand?  I have often thought that and I think Colombo thinks that as well.


I did a cut and paste so I wouldn't have to bring the entire post over to this page.  Poochy, if Dirty Hand was being held, does this mean that he could also be the 5th suspect?  Is this someone other than Freddy or Lorenzo?

SS - I'm not sure if was DirtyHand who was being held, or if it was the 'Babylonian card' who can identify DirtyHand who was being held. 

Then I read somewhere that someone from MB flew down a few days earlier than the MB kids, and then left two days later. Said it was in the Aruba papers, but I never read it here in the states.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on June 23, 2008, 06:57:02 PM
she spent her nights at their tables



Hi Colombo - at one point, CAPS threw out a suggestion to us.  He felt that Natalee was the wrong girl that night and that she was a substitute.  He thought that it was Virginia who owed money, but "the bird flew away".  Virginia left Aruba on her grandfather's private jet the day before.  Is this possible?

They do look alike SS

(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/MBrook/sy5jx0.jpg)
SS..I believe its very possible....Blonde Thanks for posting the Pic...



Wow, they really do look alike.  I wonder if Urine was sent to get Virginia, not knowing that she had already left, and then took Natalee because he knew that the event was planned and the participants were waiting for the girl.  If I recall, CAPS also mentioned something about two parties and two girls, but he never explained anything further.  Have any of the other MB girls ever mentioned anything about going to a party?  Poochy, did the girls from Boston go to a party or did any of them have problems with the locals?

I have no idea about the Boston girls. I don't have contacts like most of you here that post - I just recall what I've read that there were a group of Boston H.S. kids celebrating their freedom in the 'hotel next door from the H.I." whatever hotel that may be. And that Natalee and MB friends went to that hotel because the music was better.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 23, 2008, 07:04:38 PM
Poochy
Email me cindoal@yahoo.com

Don't worry everybody and Shango has that email...I am known by it. LOL


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 23, 2008, 07:07:08 PM
Supposedly there was an MB student named Haleigh (sp?) who's parents owned a condo on Aruba.  She and her mother remained there and helped search for Natalee.  Supposedly, Haleigh knew some of the locals from her previous times on the island.  I think that some of us saw this as a possible connection to Lorenzo.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Observer on June 23, 2008, 07:09:59 PM
Supposedly there was an MB student named Haleigh (sp?) who's parents owned a condo on Aruba.  She and her mother remained there and helped search for Natalee.  Supposedly, Haleigh knew some of the locals from her previous times on the island.  I think that some of us saw this as a possible connection to Lorenzo.
Here ya go...Notice who's photobucket this is  ::MonkeyRoll::

http://tinyurl.com/677fw9


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Blonde on June 23, 2008, 07:15:13 PM
Supposedly there was an MB student named Haleigh (sp?) who's parents owned a condo on Aruba.  She and her mother remained there and helped search for Natalee.  Supposedly, Haleigh knew some of the locals from her previous times on the island.  I think that some of us saw this as a possible connection to Lorenzo.

 <Snip>SCARBOROUGH

Also going to be talking to Marjanne Havelaar.  She is the editor of the largest Dutch newspaper.  I am going to talk about—to her—about the family of this Dutch judge‘s son who has been arrested and, obviously, from what we‘re hearing tonight, was intimate with Natalee.  We are also going to be talking Haleigh Uncapher.  She is a friend of Natalee‘s who was with her the night she disappeared and is now helping in the search.

All that, plus the Jackson case, Tom Cruise, Scientology.

A lot ahead.  SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY is just getting started.  Stick around.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCARBOROUGH:  We‘re going to be right back.

And when we return, we are going to be talking to people on the island of Aruba, also going to be talking to a friend of Natalee‘s who was with her the night that she disappeared and searching for her.

And, also, we are going to go out to California and get the very latest in the Michael Jackson case.  The circus act continues, except Michael Jackson may be going to jail soon.  That is what a lot of experts are claiming.  We‘ll talk to our experts out in L.A., when SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY returns.

But, first, here is the latest news that you and your family need to know.

(NEWS BREAK)

SCARBOROUGH:  With the arrest of three more suspects and also the search for Natalee Holloway entering the 11th day and counting, the question remains, what could have happened to this beautiful, intelligent, attractive young girl from Mountain Brook, Alabama?

With me now to talk about it is Marjanne Havelaar.  She is the editor of “The Amigoe,” which is, from what I understand, Marjanne, the largest Dutch-language newspaper on the island.

Thank you for being with us tonight.

Your island is such a safe island.  I know this has to be a shock to everybody down there.  How often do you have tourists from America or any other country end up missing like this?

MARJANNE HAVELAAR, EDITOR, “THE AMIGOE”:  As far as I can remember, it never happens.  I work as an editor for five years now on this island.  I live here for 15 years.  And something like this, it‘s really the first time.

SCARBOROUGH:  It just doesn‘t happen.

Now, let me ask you something.  You know the family of the Dutch teen.  Obviously, they‘re a very well respected family there.  What can you tell us about them tonight?

HAVELAAR:  Yes.  You‘re right.  It‘s a very respected family.  As we know, the father is a local judge.  The mother is a teacher.  I mean, they have three kids.  They‘ve never been in trouble.  It‘s a normal, decent family, nothing extraordinary about them.  So, this came really as a shock that their son was named as one of the suspects.

SCARBOROUGH:  Yes.  I‘m sure a lot of people are shocked by that.

Let me ask you something.  Last night, we had an FBI profiler come on this show.  And they said, you know, one of the things that happens, not only in Aruba, but happens—I mean, it happens in Miami.  It happens all across America, all across the world, is, sometimes, you have date rape drugs that are slipped into drinks.  It happens on college campuses.  A lot of speculation that that may have happened in this case.

Has that ever happened in Aruba before?  Have police or newspapers ever felt the need to issue warnings to tourists because this happens?

HAVELAAR:  Yes.  It‘s something that happens on Aruba.  It happened a few times last—over the last few years.

And, sometimes, in our paper, we issue a warning, not only for the tourists, but also for the local teens.  Once in a while, we hear information about this kind of thing.  .

SCARBOROUGH:  All right, thank you for being with us, Marjanne.  Obviously, we are all going to continue to focus on this story, just like you are.  We greatly appreciate you being with us tonight.

Let‘s go back now to Tom Parker.  He‘s a former FBI agent.

Tom, you know, a lot of people are talking about possibly Natalee being killed, murdered on the island.  They‘re searching for her.  But there is a possibility, because of Aruba‘s geographic location, that she could have possibly been taken off the island.  Talk about that.

PARKER:  Well, obviously, anything is possible as to where she has ended up as a result of this situation.

And it really comes back to, what was the motivation of whoever took her?  If there was a need to conceal her or to get her removed from any opportunity of somebody finding her, then to take her to another remote island would be very, very logical.  This is why a very important part of this investigation, which I can assure you is under way, they will be dissecting from A to Z all of the activities, the background, where they‘ve been, what they‘ve been doing this past weekend as it relates to these five suspects that are now in custody.

(CROSSTALK)

SCARBOROUGH:  I‘m sorry.  I was just going to say, let‘s put that map back up for—that shows how close Aruba is to Venezuela.

You had the attorney general coming out earlier today talking about—and there‘s the map—talking about how this search has expanded beyond their borders.  Does the FBI—I mean, have you heard of cases before where somebody got kidnapped from an island and taken to the mainland?  And, of course, the speculation is—and it‘s all speculation—that could have been sold into prostitution or slavery.  Does that ever happen?

PARKER:  Absolutely.  It‘s happening all over the world.

And, certainly, that‘s one of the possibilities that the investigators down there are looking at.  And it‘s also logical to start looking beyond Aruba, when we are 10 and 11 days into this and no trace of her has been found, at least as far as we know.  You do start expanding your search.  So, I‘m presuming that it was a natural forward movement for them to expand the search.  But I‘m also guessing that they have developed some information which would indicate that this other island, this remote island, is perhaps somehow involved in this.

SCARBOROUGH:  All right, Tom, thanks a lot for being with us.  We greatly appreciate it.

PARKER:  My pleasure.

SCARBOROUGH:  And, obviously, I‘ll tell you what.  A lot of people In Mountain Brook, Alabama, very concerned about what‘s going on tonight, concerned about the fact that Natalee, obviously worst-case scenario, that she is on the island and something terrible happened to her there, but also that she may have been taken off the island.  And, again, this investigation now has expanded beyond Aruba.

Now let‘s bring in Haleigh Uncapher.  Haleigh is a friend that was with Natalee the night that she disappeared.  And, also, she continues with the valiant search for her friend from Mountain Brook, Alabama.

Haleigh, thanks a lot for being with us tonight.

HALEIGH UNCAPHER, FRIEND OF NATALEE HOLLOWAY:  Thank you.

SCARBOROUGH:  Talk about the emotions of today, now in the 11th day.  Are people starting to think that this story just may not have a happy ending?

UNCAPHER:  I think people are still hopeful.  And they‘re trying not to focus on whether it is going to be a happy ending or not.  I think we‘re really just trying to find Natalee and get some closure to this case.

SCARBOROUGH:  You know, today, we got a lot of information on the Dutch man.  You spoke last night—Well, I say man.  He‘s 17 years old, the 17-year-old son, a judge‘s son who is a Dutch guy.

You talked about the fact that they met the night before she disappeared.  But we‘re hearing now that they met in the casino.  Can you set the stage for those of us in the United States that want to know what the hotel was like where you were staying?  There was a casino nearby.  There were bars nearby.  Talk about the casino where they met.
UNCAPHER:  OK.

Well, the casino and lobby and all that is kind of separate from the sleeping quarters or whatever.  But you have to walk from where your room is, across the way, and then there is a bar on your right.  And then, as you keep walking straight, it comes right into the hotel, the main hotel, where the lobby is and the casino and everything is just right there.  And so, the main hotel kind of...

SCARBOROUGH:  Yes.  And...

UNCAPHER:  Go ahead.

SCARBOROUGH:  Keep going.

UNCAPHER:  Oh, I was just going to say, the hotel surrounds the pool and the bar, kind of.

SCARBOROUGH:  OK.  We‘re hearing also obviously that what Natalee did, meeting this young Dutch man, was not out of the ordinary, that, actually, you had a lot of locals coming into the casino, a lot of locals coming into these bars trying to pick up tourists, which, of course, happens in the Caribbean and also in other vacation resorts.  Is that correct?

UNCAPHER:  Well, yes.

I mean, locals are everywhere you go, because they‘re just like you, trying to enjoy themselves as—just as much so.  They were—you know, were pretty much wherever we were, not necessarily only where we were.  But everywhere we went, you know, were locals.

SCARBOROUGH:  Yes.

Now, Natalee—we‘re hearing from these reports that Natalee was intimate with this young man.  Had Natalee talked to you, had she talked to anybody else from Mountain Brook High School that was down there with her on this senior trip about this young man that she had obviously met the night before?

UNCAPHER:  She had never talked to me about it.  I have not talked to any of her friends.  And from what I know of, they didn‘t know.  They only knew him from Sunday night when—at Carlos ‘n Charlie‘s.

SCARBOROUGH:  Oh, OK.  So, they don‘t know the backstory to it, how—what we‘re hearing today, again, from the statements that were released.

Talk about the search today.  It looks like you‘ve been out in the sun for the better part of the day looking for Natalee.  It‘s been 11 days now.  This island, as we said last night, is no bigger than Topeka, Kansas.

There are 700 people that have been out searching.  The FBI is out there.  There are divers out there.  There are search dogs out there, still no—searching for Natalee.

Where did you all go today?  What—what‘s left to search on the island of Aruba?

UNCAPHER:  Well, normally, they‘ve been searching from the lighthouse to the Alta Vista, which is a church which they think that Natalee may be.  And then this area, there is just a lot of brush and just a lot of ground to cover and also little homes that we may think that, you know, people don‘t have cable or—we can‘t imagine people not knowing about this, but we are just trying to go out there just to see if, you know, people haven‘t heard about it.

SCARBOROUGH:  Can you talk about talk about your friends, fellow people from Mountain Brook?  What are their thoughts tonight?

UNCAPHER:  I just think we‘re all just really worried now.

You know, it‘s our 11th day.  And we‘re all just anxious to find out more news.  And, yes, that‘s about—just really worried.

SCARBOROUGH:  All right, Haleigh.  All right, Haleigh, thanks a lot.

We appreciate you being with us tonight.

UNCAPHER:  Thank you.

SCARBOROUGH:  Again, good luck on the search.  Our thoughts and prayers are with you and Natalee‘s friends and, obviously, everybody that‘s searching for this young 18-year-old woman.



http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8170905


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 23, 2008, 07:38:58 PM
Thanks Blonde, she's the one.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on June 23, 2008, 07:41:18 PM
Thanks Blonde!

Here's something from Harry Tho. I hate to bring the twins into this mix, but all roads lead back to gambling. (Was it rumor or fact that the twins lawyered up on the plane ride home?)

http://www.hyscience.com/archives/2005/10/post.php

"...In my opinion, there was a concern about the Twitty brothers (early on). One blog reported that a scuffle erupted between Joran and one of the Twitty brothers at C&C when Natalee left the brothers' company to dance with Joran. There was even a report of a punch being thrown by one of the brothers. The brothers were close friends with Natalee's former boyfriend who spent the prior afternoon on the beach with Natalee ... some guy named Sean McVae (sp?)..."



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on June 23, 2008, 07:59:08 PM
While googling about the boyfriend who was said to have arrived 2 days early and changed his flight for 2 days after all the MBers left Aruba, I found this post - Never saw it before - thought I'd share because this says Natalee called her b'friend IN ALABAMA at 4am... and I thought there was someone on the island who arrived on different flights than the group...

I OMITTED some of the post out of respect for Nat's family...

http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2007/12/natalee-hollowa.html

listen folks, i studied this case from the inside out! a whole year documenting and emailing everyone involved and the world. every single day i recorded the ...(omitted).

first of all joran v/d sloot is 'innocent'! why? because there is PROOF that natalee called her boyfriend in ALABAMA around 4 in the morning from aruba. (way after joran left her on the beach!) he was asleep so his answering machine recorded her saying that she did not want to return home, that she was depressed about having to return! and she kept rambling on and clearly a little out of it, also there was loud music in the back ground! this was told to me by the mother of joran, and that is why they had to realease him!! it took so long because the fbi had confiscated the tape and had it analized!

that call was made from the 'rented' phone she from digicell a local phone company! when they traced the call it resulted to the answering machine of her boyfriend! now.. how did the phone result back in her room the same morning, for her room mates to hand over to the chapparone that stayed back to see about her whereabouts??? rarara?? could that be perhaps before or after she took her room key at the front desk??? well accompanied??

moreover, peter de vries told in an interview on a local station in aruba that his investigative team has 'a seccion of surveillance tape' from the holiday inn, where natalee is clearly seen in the lobby at the front desk, where she went to pick-up her room key! she was accompanied by a man but the tape does not give a clear view of that man! also hours after joran left her on the beach! so peter de vries is a lier and a manipulator too!
'cause if you have proof, and you declare the truth on the air, and afterwards FOR THE LOVE OF MONEY OR VENGENCE, you turn around and betray a whole community...then your just the same old bastard as (OMITTED).
furthermore, the first day 24 hours she was on the island, she sent a signal to natalee that i'm here #@#@#??? we have to talk!!??
well she came like the angel of darkness convinced her daughter was DEAD, and now..we have to talk??

stay tuned aaalllllot more to come! i have details even the procecutors are afraid to release!!!
indira martin


Posted by: INDIRA MARTIN | Friday, February 08, 2008 at 11:44 PM



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 23, 2008, 08:11:50 PM
I was reading on one of the other blogs, and I came across a list of Urine's friends and their pictures.  There was a picture of a kid named Alexsander Ziewinger.  I am not familiar with this kid as one of Urine's friends, but the name Alexsander and the last name starting with a Z sure jumped out at me.  Does anyone know anything about this kid?  The picture didn't look like Freddy, but I wonder if his name has been merged with Freddy's name.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: WhiskeyGirl on June 23, 2008, 08:22:23 PM
From all these things, I wonder if Ben Vocking could be tied to "Dirty Hand"? 

He seems to be a part of this case, and rarely seen.  What were his movements in June? 

Is he related to any suspect or witnesses? 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on June 23, 2008, 08:29:02 PM
From all these things, I wonder if Ben Vocking could be tied to "Dirty Hand"? 

He seems to be a part of this case, and rarely seen.  What were his movements in June? 

Is he related to any suspect or witnesses? 

Yeah, he changed his name to Ben King.  Is he an Arawak or an Arawak King? Why would he change his name at his age? Did he think the pronounciation of his last name sounded like one of George Carlin's 7 words you can't say on the air? (May God rest George's Carlin's soul).


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 23, 2008, 08:29:26 PM
From all these things, I wonder if Ben Vocking could be tied to "Dirty Hand"? 

He seems to be a part of this case, and rarely seen.  What were his movements in June? 

Is he related to any suspect or witnesses? 



We talked about him a while back.  He's tight with Paulass and I think he goes by the name Ben King now.  We also talked about a Judge named Dueterkom (sp?) who never has his picture taken.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 23, 2008, 08:36:41 PM
If I recall, there was a lot of confusion about what Ben King looks like.  There was a picture of Ben King leaving, I think, the police station and a picture of a Ben King who is a minister.  Mum and/or LaLa's have the correct picture.  I don't know if we ever found a picture of Judge Deuterkom or how ever it's spelled.  I think this guy was an Enoz Regnad.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: klaasend on June 23, 2008, 09:01:40 PM
While googling about the boyfriend who was said to have arrived 2 days early and changed his flight for 2 days after all the MBers left Aruba, I found this post - Never saw it before - thought I'd share because this says Natalee called her b'friend IN ALABAMA at 4am... and I thought there was someone on the island who arrived on different flights than the group...

I OMITTED some of the post out of respect for Nat's family...

http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2007/12/natalee-hollowa.html

listen folks, i studied this case from the inside out! a whole year documenting and emailing everyone involved and the world. every single day i recorded the ...(omitted).

first of all joran v/d sloot is 'innocent'! why? because there is PROOF that natalee called her boyfriend in ALABAMA around 4 in the morning from aruba. (way after joran left her on the beach!) he was asleep so his answering machine recorded her saying that she did not want to return home, that she was depressed about having to return! and she kept rambling on and clearly a little out of it, also there was loud music in the back ground! this was told to me by the mother of joran, and that is why they had to realease him!! it took so long because the fbi had confiscated the tape and had it analized!

that call was made from the 'rented' phone she from digicell a local phone company! when they traced the call it resulted to the answering machine of her boyfriend! now.. how did the phone result back in her room the same morning, for her room mates to hand over to the chapparone that stayed back to see about her whereabouts??? rarara?? could that be perhaps before or after she took her room key at the front desk??? well accompanied??

moreover, peter de vries told in an interview on a local station in aruba that his investigative team has 'a seccion of surveillance tape' from the holiday inn, where natalee is clearly seen in the lobby at the front desk, where she went to pick-up her room key! she was accompanied by a man but the tape does not give a clear view of that man! also hours after joran left her on the beach! so peter de vries is a lier and a manipulator too!
'cause if you have proof, and you declare the truth on the air, and afterwards FOR THE LOVE OF MONEY OR VENGENCE, you turn around and betray a whole community...then your just the same old bastard as (OMITTED).
furthermore, the first day 24 hours she was on the island, she sent a signal to natalee that i'm here #@#@#??? we have to talk!!??
well she came like the angel of darkness convinced her daughter was DEAD, and now..we have to talk??

stay tuned aaalllllot more to come! i have details even the procecutors are afraid to release!!!
indira martin


Posted by: INDIRA MARTIN | Friday, February 08, 2008 at 11:44 PM



This is pure Renee Gielen BS, nothing more and exactly what those people want is happening.  They post it on one message board and it gets posted elsewhere until before you know it people believe it.

THIS IS BS


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 23, 2008, 09:08:11 PM
I was reading on one of the other blogs, and I came across a list of Urine's friends and their pictures.  There was a picture of a kid named Alexsander Ziewinger.  I am not familiar with this kid as one of Urine's friends, but the name Alexsander and the last name starting with a Z sure jumped out at me.  Does anyone know anything about this kid?  The picture didn't look like Freddy, but I wonder if his name has been merged with Freddy's name.


SS…I spent a morning checking him out a while back and came up empty!

ZIEVINGER, Alexsander…from Chicago outfit photobucket

Duke Duke 7-17 male en Geiledaphne Geiledaphne female sebastian ...
... freddy freddy papi male Glembert Glembert Alexander male sexy sexy sexy ..... male Alexsander G Alexsander G Zievinger male Angeloh Angeloh Moneytalks ...api.hi5.com/rest/profile/foaf/874358 - 407k - Cached -

Vocking - the right pic is in the Aruban Who's Who, I think...LOL


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 23, 2008, 09:55:03 PM
Alexsander Ziewinger is on the top left


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 23, 2008, 10:02:20 PM
This is the source for the pictures.
http://arubadirtypolice.blogspot.com/2006_08_01_archive.html

I also noticed that the name is written as Freddy Zedan Arambatzis instead of Arambatzis Zedan.

Who is Alexsander Ziewinger?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: klaasend on June 23, 2008, 10:12:18 PM
Alexsander Ziewinger is on the top left

Those photos are of Joran's character witnesses from the NY civil case:

ZIEVINGER, Alexsander – character witness as listed on pg 33 Tacopina’s filing in NY civil suit.
(http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h291/SunFreak2/CharacterWitness-AlexanderZievin-1.jpg)

So he's one of Joran's friends - either school or tennis would be my guess.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 23, 2008, 10:29:13 PM
Alexsander Ziewinger is on the top left

Boy!  That's a great group to use as character witnesses. Several of them have been suspects...really good to have them on your side.  :roll:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: always 1 on June 23, 2008, 11:05:42 PM
she spent her nights at their tables



Hi Colombo - at one point, CAPS threw out a suggestion to us.  He felt that Natalee was the wrong girl that night and that she was a substitute.  He thought that it was Virginia who owed money, but "the bird flew away".  Virginia left Aruba on her grandfather's private jet the day before.  Is this possible?

They do look alike SS

(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/MBrook/sy5jx0.jpg)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: always 1 on June 23, 2008, 11:08:01 PM
Oops, I did that wrong, are these part of the girls that were with Natalee???? Gosh, Frannie looks just like me.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 23, 2008, 11:10:02 PM
Alexsander Ziewinger is on the top left

Boy!  That's a great group to use as character witnesses. Several of them have been suspects...really good to have them on your side.  :roll:



LaLa's, I think I found Regnad.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: texasmom on June 23, 2008, 11:33:36 PM
Supposedly there was an MB student named Haleigh (sp?) who's parents owned a condo on Aruba.  She and her mother remained there and helped search for Natalee.  Supposedly, Haleigh knew some of the locals from her previous times on the island.  I think that some of us saw this as a possible connection to Lorenzo.
Here ya go...Notice who's photobucket this is  ::MonkeyRoll::

http://tinyurl.com/677fw9
Haleigh from facebook:
(http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn82/texasmom_55/QMPD97235/zhaleighuncapherfacebook.jpg)
Her older sister Kathryn (from facebook) who was also in Aruba from my understanding...
(http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn82/texasmom_55/QMPD97235/zkathrynuncapherfacebook.jpg)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on June 23, 2008, 11:37:42 PM
Supposedly there was an MB student named Haleigh (sp?) who's parents owned a condo on Aruba.  She and her mother remained there and helped search for Natalee.  Supposedly, Haleigh knew some of the locals from her previous times on the island.  I think that some of us saw this as a possible connection to Lorenzo.
Here ya go...Notice who's photobucket this is  ::MonkeyRoll::

http://tinyurl.com/677fw9
Haleigh from facebook:
(http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn82/texasmom_55/QMPD97235/zhaleighuncapherfacebook.jpg)
Her older sister Kathryn (from facebook) who was also in Aruba from my understanding...
(http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn82/texasmom_55/QMPD97235/zkathrynuncapherfacebook.jpg)

To me, the group picture has Kathryn & Haleigh marked in reverse...maybe it's just me...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on June 23, 2008, 11:41:07 PM
OOPS....confusing Lee with Katherine and Haleigh with Virginia....will have to take a break. ::MonkeyConfused::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: texasmom on June 23, 2008, 11:51:24 PM
OOPS....confusing Lee with Katherine and Haleigh with Virginia....will have to take a break. ::MonkeyConfused::

I don't think either of the Uncapher sister's are in the group picture.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 24, 2008, 05:47:40 AM
This is the source for the pictures.
http://arubadirtypolice.blogspot.com/2006_08_01_archive.html

I also noticed that the name is written as Freddy Zedan Arambatzis instead of Arambatzis Zedan.

Who is Alexsander Ziewinger?


SS...I spent a morning trying to track him a while back, went through multiple pics trying to find him, and the only thing I came up with was the hi5 site I posted on the previous page.

Then I changed letters in the name...an l instead of the w, and still nothing! There is a list to do with the character witnesses and spelling corrections, and I don't recall his name being on it. I believe it is in the documents on Jonathon's site.

Lala's...re my internet provider...yesterday they did not provide any internet, or very little....today they are not providing any email ...thought I out-smarted them and copied many things in case they disappeared never to be seen again, or were in limbo for weeks, well I forgot to copy my address book!

Did I miss were MJ's girlfriend from Boston was a blonde?....pretty sure from what I have read she is not dumb!

Back to working on Ernesto and his family? Will try and get it done this morning...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 24, 2008, 06:07:46 AM
On the Mansur family….I have two areas of interest that I have started to follow…The Miami jet-set, Damilice and her known connection to Miguel Jr and Austin Mansur. Both these guys live the good life. Porsches, cigarette boats, parties etc. Pretty sure they would know the Miami nightlife as well…maybe Tommy Pooch, Alan Roth, Ernesto?  Now where did those discussions lead?  Both Tommy Pooch and Ernesto in Aruba in May 2005? The last addresses I have seen for Ernesto and Damilice their apartment buildings appear to be next door to each other…

The other is the parents’ of Austin and Miguel Jr and their families. This involves their companies, both in Chicago and Florida, and checking their business associates…

Have just scratched the surface on both of these…


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 24, 2008, 07:59:45 AM
Finngirl posted some posts the other day about the discussion when 'Freddy' was identified...started with Arends and moved onto, in a roundabout way, to Arambatzis and Zedan, with confirmation from Melody at RWV. The info came from US TV sources, (wonder who their info came from? IIRC there were not a lot of US press on the ground in Aruba at that time), and some dubious posters here at SM. Bondia applauded jossy and the Monkeys for nailing down the identity of 'Freddy'. SandraK posted about a cousin Lissette,sp, here in the States and an aunt Rebeca in Venezuela...still trying to track these down...LOL...Misinformation maybe?....Ernesto's ex-wife was Rebecca...of course no links were posted....

Do any of the veteran poster's remember the connection of Ernesto to 'Freddy'? When this may have been and which forum? I recall anna telling me to look at RWV for early misinformation by Scubajap on "Freddy'. I would love to read those posts! TIA

SS...Did you find Deutekom?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 24, 2008, 08:42:48 AM
Mum - I have both Facebook and MySpace accounts because in my business it's a good way to keep track of "things that are going on".  I can't tell you how many faces I have poured through trying to identify Freddy.  I have found absolutely nothing.  I have found nothing on Deutekom.  And, now this Alexsander kid is another puzzle.  He and Freddy must be real people or TacoJoe couldn't have used them as sources in the NY documents.  I found it interesting that Freddy's last name on that list was Arambatzis and Zedan preceeded it.  Didn't ALE list him as Arambatzis, also?  Maybe the name Zedan isn't real.  I have no idea where Martina would fit in here, but CAPS seemed pretty sure that this was the person who was arrested for the porn pictures.  I am wondering if Martina is an entirely different person.  We've also seemed to have lost Karen Martina.  I have also searched through the MySpace pages for her.

A new thought has come into my head - which can be dangerous.   ::MonkeyHaHa::  Yesterday, LaLa's and Poochy were discussing Dirty Hand and how they could not let him be seen, but one of the suspects (the 5th? Freddy?) could identify him.   Do we know for sure that Ernesto was on in the island in May of 2005?  Could Ernesto be Dirty Hand who could reveal the details of the porn video business that was going on between Aruba and Florida?  Could Ernesto be the one who could name the names and bring down the Babylonians if he had really big names?

I'm sorry about your Internet problems.  I get so frustrated when I have those problems.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 24, 2008, 08:52:48 AM
Another thought.  ::MonkeyHaHa::

A few months ago, we were talking about Deutekom and initially we had a picture of a man who we thought was Deutekom, but it wasn't him.  It was a fair haired guy in a sport coat with sunglasses.  The picture was black and white.  This person was identified as another judge, but one source said that he had died.  There was a discussion yesterday with Poochy and LaLa's about the section of Shango where they were debating whether Dirty Hand was still alive.  Shango said, "Dirty Hand is alive and well".  Could there be a connection?  Just a thought.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Rob on June 24, 2008, 08:54:57 AM
n.   Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 8:04 pm
The young Lamb der Sloot shall be the sacrifice for the Arawaks and the cowboys. All will sit around the fire and feast on scapegoat. The gods are talking. DirtyHand is alive and well. [SO WHO IS THIS DIRTYHAND WHO WAS TO BE PRESUMED SICK AND THEN DEAD, BUT IS ALIVE AND WELL?]

I noticed this one particular excerpt from Poochy (welcome by the way) and could only think of one thing. Dirty Hand faked his death. On Aruba this could be accomplished quite easily. We all know that autopsy are hardly reliable. Dirty Hand was considered dead before Natalee went to Aruba.

He was dead and discovered to be alive. Was arrested and the ALE / Prosecutor's office decided it was better he REMAINS DEAD. Shango tells us that this particular Dirty Hand is not dead. A heads up if you will.

There have been many Dirty Hands - this one bowed out before he was caught and possibly sent to jail. He never stopped doing what it is he does, but was not considered a suspect because others thought he had met his demise.

- jmo -


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Blonde on June 24, 2008, 09:01:29 AM
From all these things, I wonder if Ben Vocking could be tied to "Dirty Hand"? 

He seems to be a part of this case, and rarely seen.  What were his movements in June? 

Is he related to any suspect or witnesses? 



We talked about him a while back.  He's tight with Paulass and I think he goes by the name Ben King now.  We also talked about a Judge named Dueterkom (sp?) who never has his picture taken.

(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/Aruba%20Law%20E/KINGBenVocking.jpg)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 24, 2008, 09:03:34 AM
Mum - I have both Facebook and MySpace accounts because in my business it's a good way to keep track of "things that are going on".  I can't tell you how many faces I have poured through trying to identify Freddy.  I have found absolutely nothing.  I have found nothing on Deutekom.  And, now this Alexsander kid is another puzzle.  He and Freddy must be real people or TacoJoe couldn't have used them as sources in the NY documents.  I found it interesting that Freddy's last name on that list was Arambatzis and Zedan preceeded it.  Didn't ALE list him as Arambatzis, also?  Maybe the name Zedan isn't real.  I have no idea where Martina would fit in here, but CAPS seemed pretty sure that this was the person who was arrested for the porn pictures.  I am wondering if Martina is an entirely different person.  We've also seemed to have lost Karen Martina.  I have also searched through the MySpace pages for her.

A new thought has come into my head - which can be dangerous.   ::MonkeyHaHa::  Yesterday, LaLa's and Poochy were discussing Dirty Hand and how they could not let him be seen, but one of the suspects (the 5th? Freddy?) could identify him.   Do we know for sure that Ernesto was on in the island in May of 2005?  Could Ernesto be Dirty Hand who could reveal the details of the porn video business that was going on between Aruba and Florida?  Could Ernesto be the one who could name the names and bring down the Babylonians if he had really big names?

I'm sorry about your Internet problems.  I get so frustrated when I have those problems.

ALE listed him as Zedan and And Zedan-Arambatzis, as for Taco...none of those character witnesses were ever going to NY, so Freddy Zedan statements could have been written by anyone! I don't believe 'Freddy' is who he was supposed to be. How come no-one ever saw him in relation to the statements and his August arrest. All the family heard was a name...Maybe Freddy is a figment of the internet...

Ernesto was there for Sasha's birthday party, early May, I think was posted last week...if you can trust your eyes and the pics...Where was he until January 2008...moving around a lot, multiple 'addresses'. Maybe it was him or one of his Miami buddies that changed their travel plans, a day here and there....

Unless you can find Ernesto's father, I can't place him as DH. Depends on what company both he and his friend's keep in Miami, maybe?

Just a thought...maybe Alexsander is Alex and Sander!

TM...nice to see you back, know you have been busy, hope it was fun!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 24, 2008, 09:10:01 AM
n.   Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 8:04 pm
The young Lamb der Sloot shall be the sacrifice for the Arawaks and the cowboys. All will sit around the fire and feast on scapegoat. The gods are talking. DirtyHand is alive and well. [SO WHO IS THIS DIRTYHAND WHO WAS TO BE PRESUMED SICK AND THEN DEAD, BUT IS ALIVE AND WELL?]

I noticed this one particular excerpt from Poochy (welcome by the way) and could only think of one thing. Dirty Hand faked his death. On Aruba this could be accomplished quite easily. We all know that autopsy are hardly reliable. Dirty Hand was considered dead before Natalee went to Aruba.

He was dead and discovered to be alive. Was arrested and the ALE / Prosecutor's office decided it was better he REMAINS DEAD. Shango tells us that this particular Dirty Hand is not dead. A heads up if you will.

There have been many Dirty Hands - this one bowed out before he was caught and possibly sent to jail. He never stopped doing what it is he does, but was not considered a suspect because others thought he had met his demise.

- jmo -


Hi Rob...This reminds me of Judge Kuiperdal. I checked for an obit and couldn't find one.

Also at the Mementori,sp, site, I couldn't access in June or July 2005, anything on a Henrique that had died. Opened every other one on that page, but that one gave me a warning, like not authorized or something! Strange!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 24, 2008, 09:14:27 AM
From all these things, I wonder if Ben Vocking could be tied to "Dirty Hand"? 

He seems to be a part of this case, and rarely seen.  What were his movements in June? 

Is he related to any suspect or witnesses? 



We talked about him a while back.  He's tight with Paulass and I think he goes by the name Ben King now.  We also talked about a Judge named Dueterkom (sp?) who never has his picture taken.

(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/Aruba%20Law%20E/KINGBenVocking.jpg)


Thanks Blonde...I believe that ******* has corrected the Aruban Who's Who with this pic....I would hate to go back and reread both those discussions again to make sure we had the right guy! LOL


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 24, 2008, 09:36:51 AM
Ben King...again.  King fits the description that Shango gave of Dirty Hand walking with the fallen elder.  He is the only one besides Straten that was actually seen with Paulus.  I don't think Shango was as cryptic as some think...anyone that has read my posts already knows this...Shango was talking to people that knew who he was and some that didn't, but he was either misdirecting or giving information which is debatable. I think if Shango says he walked with the elder he means he was there with Paulus.  If Shango says he walks in all houses then he would be the person able to know everything that goes on in Aruba.  Yes, I believe Shango was cryptic to some degree, but I think everyone, myself included, tends to over analyze the details.  How can you tell a tale and no one understand what you mean and still get your point across to those reading?  Why make it so hard to understand that you are never recognized for what you have accomplished.  Shango had an ego...that is important.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Rob on June 24, 2008, 09:40:10 AM
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/Aruba%20Law%20E/KINGBenVocking.jpg)


Thanks Blonde...I believe that ******* has corrected the Aruban Who's Who with this pic....I would hate to go back and reread both those discussions again to make sure we had the right guy! LOL
[/quote]

Hi Mum, yes! this is the correct picture. That is my screen shot from the DeVries Crime show. That is Ben Voc / King.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 24, 2008, 09:49:48 AM
Ben King...again.  King fits the description that Shango gave of Dirty Hand walking with the fallen elder.  He is the only one besides Straten that was actually seen with Paulus.  I don't think Shango was as cryptic as some think...anyone that has read my posts already knows this...Shango was talking to people that knew who he was and some that didn't, but he was either misdirecting or giving information which is debatable. I think if Shango says he walked with the elder he means he was there with Paulus.  If Shango says he walks in all houses then he would be the person able to know everything that goes on in Aruba.  Yes, I believe Shango was cryptic to some degree, but I think everyone, myself included, tends to over analyze the details.  How can you tell a tale and no one understand what you mean and still get your point across to those reading?  Why make it so hard to understand that you are never recognized for what you have accomplished.  Shango had an ego...that is important.


Walks in all houses...courthouse, jailhouse, Sloot's house, I believe Caps mentioned whorehouses...only other one I can think of is The House of the Lord...and that would take us back to the other Ben Vocking...LOL


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on June 24, 2008, 09:50:48 AM
n.   Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 8:04 pm
The young Lamb der Sloot shall be the sacrifice for the Arawaks and the cowboys. All will sit around the fire and feast on scapegoat. The gods are talking. DirtyHand is alive and well. [SO WHO IS THIS DIRTYHAND WHO WAS TO BE PRESUMED SICK AND THEN DEAD, BUT IS ALIVE AND WELL?]

I noticed this one particular excerpt from Poochy (welcome by the way) and could only think of one thing. Dirty Hand faked his death. On Aruba this could be accomplished quite easily. We all know that autopsy are hardly reliable. Dirty Hand was considered dead before Natalee went to Aruba.

He was dead and discovered to be alive. Was arrested and the ALE / Prosecutor's office decided it was better he REMAINS DEAD. Shango tells us that this particular Dirty Hand is not dead. A heads up if you will.

There have been many Dirty Hands - this one bowed out before he was caught and possibly sent to jail. He never stopped doing what it is he does, but was not considered a suspect because others thought he had met his demise.

- jmo -

Rob, hey thanks for the welcome! Let me toss this one out...could the references of Babylon actually refer to the modern country that it is today? Since Aruba is a trampoline island for drugs, could it also be for arms to VZ, CO or MX (gamblers are up in arms)? FBI was crawling all over Aruba, so were Dutch F-16 fighter jets on July 3 and their infra-red cameras. But as we saw FBI has no jurisdiction in Aruba, per se. Arawaks (Aruba natives) afraid of DirtyHand. Babylonians afraid of DirtyHand...and DirtyHand returned to Babylon, broken, but annonymous.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 24, 2008, 09:53:42 AM
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/Aruba%20Law%20E/KINGBenVocking.jpg)


Thanks Blonde...I believe that ******* has corrected the Aruban Who's Who with this pic....I would hate to go back and reread both those discussions again to make sure we had the right guy! LOL

Hi Mum, yes! this is the correct picture. That is my screen shot from the DeVries Crime show. That is Ben Voc / King.
[/quote]


Thanks Rob...that was the one thing that made it the right one for me when we were discussing this a couple of months back...that De Vries must have named the right guy! I believe vms made that point, and most agreed.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Silverfox on June 24, 2008, 09:59:06 AM
Ben King...again.  King fits the description that Shango gave of Dirty Hand walking with the fallen elder.  He is the only one besides Straten that was actually seen with Paulus.  I don't think Shango was as cryptic as some think...anyone that has read my posts already knows this...Shango was talking to people that knew who he was and some that didn't, but he was either misdirecting or giving information which is debatable. I think if Shango says he walked with the elder he means he was there with Paulus.  If Shango says he walks in all houses then he would be the person able to know everything that goes on in Aruba.  Yes, I believe Shango was cryptic to some degree, but I think everyone, myself included, tends to over analyze the details.  How can you tell a tale and no one understand what you mean and still get your point across to those reading?  Why make it so hard to understand that you are never recognized for what you have accomplished.  Shango had an ego...that is important.

Why does everyone assume that the fallen elder is paulus ???-- He doesn't look very "fallen" to me -- lucrative law practice, money, privs, etc....

I have always felt that the fallen elder was Beticoe Croes -- the leader -- "fallen" in many clultures means "dead" -- "elder" in many cultures means "respected older one" ---

I have always felt that Shango was talking about someone who knew and possibly worked -- most certainly associated with "the elder" Beticoe Croes...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 24, 2008, 10:14:27 AM
Ben King...again.  King fits the description that Shango gave of Dirty Hand walking with the fallen elder.  He is the only one besides Straten that was actually seen with Paulus.  I don't think Shango was as cryptic as some think...anyone that has read my posts already knows this...Shango was talking to people that knew who he was and some that didn't, but he was either misdirecting or giving information which is debatable. I think if Shango says he walked with the elder he means he was there with Paulus.  If Shango says he walks in all houses then he would be the person able to know everything that goes on in Aruba.  Yes, I believe Shango was cryptic to some degree, but I think everyone, myself included, tends to over analyze the details.  How can you tell a tale and no one understand what you mean and still get your point across to those reading?  Why make it so hard to understand that you are never recognized for what you have accomplished.  Shango had an ego...that is important.

Why does everyone assume that the fallen elder is paulus ???-- He doesn't look very "fallen" to me -- lucrative law practice, money, privs, etc....

I have always felt that the fallen elder was Beticoe Croes -- the leader -- "fallen" in many clultures means "dead" -- "elder" in many cultures means "respected older one" ---

I have always felt that Shango was talking about someone who knew and possibly worked -- most certainly associated with "the elder" Beticoe Croes...

Hi Silverfox....we would have to go back a while for info on that...Do you have any thoughts on his so called accident. IIRC another car was seen leaving the scene. I have seen Hendrick's name associated with this...I think he is worse than Rudy....seems to stay under the radar, around here at least!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on June 24, 2008, 10:21:11 AM
n.   Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 8:04 pm
The young Lamb der Sloot shall be the sacrifice for the Arawaks and the cowboys. All will sit around the fire and feast on scapegoat. The gods are talking. DirtyHand is alive and well. [SO WHO IS THIS DIRTYHAND WHO WAS TO BE PRESUMED SICK AND THEN DEAD, BUT IS ALIVE AND WELL?]

I noticed this one particular excerpt from Poochy (welcome by the way) and could only think of one thing. Dirty Hand faked his death. On Aruba this could be accomplished quite easily. We all know that autopsy are hardly reliable. Dirty Hand was considered dead before Natalee went to Aruba.

He was dead and discovered to be alive. Was arrested and the ALE / Prosecutor's office decided it was better he REMAINS DEAD. Shango tells us that this particular Dirty Hand is not dead. A heads up if you will.

There have been many Dirty Hands - this one bowed out before he was caught and possibly sent to jail. He never stopped doing what it is he does, but was not considered a suspect because others thought he had met his demise.

- jmo -

Rob, hey thanks for the welcome! Let me toss this one out...could the references of Babylon actually refer to the modern country that it is today? Since Aruba is a trampoline island for drugs, could it also be for arms to VZ, CO or MX (gamblers are up in arms)? FBI was crawling all over Aruba, so were Dutch F-16 fighter jets on July 3 and their infra-red cameras. But as we saw FBI has no jurisdiction in Aruba, per se. Arawaks (Aruba natives) afraid of DirtyHand. Babylonians afraid of DirtyHand...and DirtyHand returned to Babylon, broken, but annonymous.


DirtyHand, IMHO, is someone ruthless, untouchable, and scares the heck out of everyone- someone who either writes Black Notes and/or is a practicing Muslim who's left hand is referred to as 'dirty hand'

This post was written in references to SHussain holding the Koran "...how can he hold such a Precious Holy Book in his dirty hand! and his left hand too! arggg ".   (ref found at http://www.shiachat.com/forum/lofiversion/index.php/t234915869.html )

There are many who think SHussain is still 'alive and well' because he had many imposters.  http://stargods.org/SaddamsImposter.htm  I for one don't know what to beleive anymore.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:58 pm
Arawaks want to make cowboys happy. Babylonians want to maintain integrity of Great House. Gods of the cowboys know there was a game in the great house, and so DirtyHand was discovered. But the sacrifice will be offered before dirty hand sings. He will return to babylon, broken but anonymous.
 



Hey - like I said earlier - just tossin' it out there for interesting discussion!


 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Silverfox on June 24, 2008, 10:22:26 AM
Mum, I remember reading clear back in '05 -- I think in in RWV, that the BC accident was really an assassination... but who knows?

But in this context if This is what Shango was telling us -- Dirty hand would be older, and perhaps under the radar, but someone who knew and worked with Beticoe, perhaps on the sovereignty issue -- high enough and respected enough to be instantly recognized as a respected public figure (maybe even retired) on the island -- but not necessarily of the the island.  perhaps someone with good research skills could run an association investigation into the associates of Beticoe when he was the "elder" and alive and see if any of the names match up with what we now know?

The reason I don't believe it was paulus was this was much too early (June 25) in the investigation to consider him "fallen" because of the arrest --- too premature for someone to consider him yet fallen, and, the evidence seems to reveal he is not "fallen" but perhaps even more powerful than before....

I believe that Dirty Hand, who ever he might be -- was either there at the scene or his son, or grandson -- or blood relative was there and this is enough for everyone to scamper around whimpering ...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Silverfox on June 24, 2008, 10:32:50 AM
Maybe this?

Quote
Hendrik Croes - a brother of the island's legendary leader, the late Betico Croes who guided Aruba to its semi-independent status in the Dutch realm - is one of the leading political figures on the island. He led several election campaigns for the MEP, now in the opposition. The Croes Family has been accused of ties with Cuntrera-Caruana. The Sicilian mafiosi payed for a trip of another brother, Rudy Croes (who succeeded Hendrik as Minister of Justice in a previous MEP government) as party secretary to a meeting of the Socialist International in Turkey. This has not been denied.

http://www.hyscience.com/archives/2005/10/harrytho_1017_e.php (http://www.hyscience.com/archives/2005/10/harrytho_1017_e.php)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on June 24, 2008, 10:36:17 AM
Shango Says:June 27th , 2005 at 9:51 pm
DirtyHand walks with the Babylons, the Arawaks and is consort to the fallen elder. The gods are talking.

Back to Royalty again:

CONSORT =

con·sort (knsôrt)
n.
1. A husband or wife, especially the spouse of a monarch.
2. A companion or partner.
3. A ship accompanying another in travel.
4. Partnership; association: governed in consort with her advisers.
5. A group; a company: a consort of fellow diplomats.
6. Music
a. An instrumental ensemble.
b. An ensemble using instruments of the same family.
v. (kn-sôrt) con·sort·ed, con·sort·ing, con·sorts
v.intr.
1. To keep company; associate: a politician known to consort with gangsters.
2. To be in accord or agreement.
v.tr.
1. To unite in company; associate.
2. Obsolete
a. To escort; accompany.
b. To espouse.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[Middle English, colleague, from Old French, from Latin cnsors, cnsort- : com-, com- + sors, fate; see ser-2 in Indo-European roots.]

The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition copyright ©2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Updated in 2003. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
consort
Verb
consort with to keep company with
Noun
1. a husband or wife of a reigning monarch
2. a small group of voices or instruments [Latin consors partner]
Collins Essential English Dictionary 2nd Edition 2006 © HarperCollins Publishers 2004, 2006
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Consort a number of people consorting together or in a company; a company or set of musicians; an assembly; a divan or consultation—Johnson, 1755.
Examples: consort of authors, 1654; of bird calls, 1711; of birds, 1712; of fiddlers, 1656; of knavery, 1598; of musical instruments; of musicians, 1616; of parasites, 1702; of plaudits, 1667; of praise, 1705; of ships [sailing together], 1591; of viols, 1883; of virgins, 1604.
Dictionary of Collective Nouns and Group Terms. Copyright 2008 The Gale Group, Inc. All rights reserved.
ThesaurusLegend:  Synonyms Related Words Antonyms
Noun 1. consort - the husband or wife of a reigning monarch
prince consort - a prince who is the husband of a reigning female sovereign
better half, married person, partner, spouse, mate - a person's partner in marriage
 2. consort - a family of similar musical instrument playing together choir
set - a group of things of the same kind that belong together and are so used; "a set of books"; "a set of golf clubs"; "a set of teeth"
Verb 1. consort - keep company with; hang out with; "He associates with strange people"; "She affiliates with her colleagues"
affiliate, assort, associate
interact - act together or towards others or with others; "He should interact more with his colleagues"
ally - become an ally or associate, as by a treaty or marriage; "He allied himself with the Communists"
go steady, date, go out, see - date regularly; have a steady relationship with; "Did you know that she is seeing an older man?"; "He is dating his former wife again!"
companion, company, keep company, accompany - be a companion to somebody
 2. consort - go together; "The colors don't harmonize"; "Their ideas concorded"
concord, fit in, harmonise, harmonize, accord, agree
correspond, gibe, jibe, match, tally, agree, fit, check - be compatible, similar or consistent; coincide in their characteristics; "The two stories don't agree in many details"; "The handwriting checks with the signature on the check"; "The suspect's fingerprints don't match those on the gun"
correspond, gibe, jibe, match, tally, agree, fit, check - be compatible, similar or consistent; coincide in their characteristics; "The two stories don't agree in many details"; "The handwriting checks with the signature on the check"; "The suspect's fingerprints don't match those on the gun"
blend in, blend, go - blend or harmonize; "This flavor will blend with those in your dish"; "This sofa won't go with the chairs"
 3. consort - keep company; "the heifers run with the bulls to produce offspring"
run
 








Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 24, 2008, 10:47:49 AM
Fine!  The fallen elder is not Paulus...Merian referred to him as the same...so I guess I am mistaken. To me, it is the only thing that fits at this point.  In context he was referenced as a failed judge, so when Shango said elder, at that point in time, which would be in June...Paulus was the person everyone was talking about on the FP comments.  Merian used the term also...so again...I am using the plain and simple version because Shango was speaking to posters from all over the world on the FP.  Remember Shango is the one that mentions the elders and how they run things on the island.  Simian began to use Shango's terms such as the difference between Sumerians and Arawaks. Obviously I am mistaken here but that is my opinion and I'm sticking to it for the time being.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:29 pm
There will be sacrifice
Tribal elders worried
Bad wampum, many moons
Light the fires


Shango Says:June 26th, 2005 at 10:48 pm
Coverups begin with elders and the founders of the houses of Babylon
Not the minions
DirtyHand knows this

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:53 pm
DirtyHand is the key
He walks with the elders
He walks in all houses
And he walked with the fallen elder
he was the hidden card that was played
now if he sings, babylon will fall on the arawak nation

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 11:05 pm
DirtyHand has worked for the elders for a long time


Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 9:51 pm
DirtyHand walks with the Babylons, the Arawaks and is consort to the fallen elder
The gods are talking [/i]


Merian Ernest Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 4:30 pm Post subject: Tuesdays have no character
All along the guards cried. The checkmate was a joke. The boy is a foul mouthed fool.

The elder drags his feet on the pavement. A shadow of his former self. The keys to the
palace have been taken from him, yet he still remembers the passage ways.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Silverfox on June 24, 2008, 10:52:12 AM
Maybe this?

Quote
Hendrik Croes - a brother of the island's legendary leader, the late Betico Croes who guided Aruba to its semi-independent status in the Dutch realm - is one of the leading political figures on the island. He led several election campaigns for the MEP, now in the opposition. The Croes Family has been accused of ties with Cuntrera-Caruana. The Sicilian mafiosi payed for a trip of another brother, Rudy Croes (who succeeded Hendrik as Minister of Justice in a previous MEP government) as party secretary to a meeting of the Socialist International in Turkey. This has not been denied.

http://www.hyscience.com/archives/2005/10/harrytho_1017_e.php (http://www.hyscience.com/archives/2005/10/harrytho_1017_e.php)


Perhaps this is Dirty Hand.... Notice the Thailand Connection?  Notice he is still at large? (Unless someone has an update)

Quote
The 52-year old Alfonso Caruana is the living example of the international ramifications, elusiveness and continuity of the family's activities. Although a fugitive, he remains one of the top level Family bosses. The fact he is married to Giuseppina Caruana, the daughter of Family patriarch Giuseppe Caruana (brother of Alfonso's father Carmelo Caruana) the eldest of the foregoing generation, is an indication to be taken seriously in the archaic conventions which rule the internal dynamics of the clan. (86)

In 1968 he arrived in Canada with 100 dollar in his pocket pretending to be an electrician. Ten years later he was stopped at the international airport of Zürich in Switzerland with 600,000 dollar in a suitcase. He was released after paying a fee. At the beginning of the 1980s Alfonso established himself near Lugano in a luxurious villa, supervising the laundering of dollar-deposits at Canadian banks channelled through Swiss accounts. Two years later he moved to the stockbrokers belt near London. From his £450,000 mansion, driving around in his BMW 732i or Mercedes 500 SEL, he supervised a heroin pipeline from Thailand, through England, to Canada. He went to Thailand to set up the route. When the pipeline was dismantled in England, he managed to escape arrest, moving to a Montreal suburb where he opened a pizzeria. Alfonso prepared the pizzas while his wife tended the pay-desk.

At the time Alfonso Caruana was already high on the most-wanted list because, according a high-placed Italian police official, "he was the one who knew most about Mafia finances." (87) When the Canadian tax-man moved in (alerted by the police who were unable to indict him) he left for Caracas, ignoring the 827,962 Canadian dollars the tax collector had seized. Law enforcement lost his traces. He is still at large, despite his conviction to 20 years' imprisonment by the Palermo Court.

Although he is subject to an international arrest warrant, Italian police in 1996 did not have his snap-shot and did not know if he was still alive. According to some he is moving around in Venezuela or Colombia; according to others he is in Aruba or Curaçao

He sure fits the Shango description, does he not?  His connections are also tied to the Holiday Inn...and also a Canadian connection (remember the cartoon?)

http://www.s1on1.com/main/index.cgi/000000A/http/www.tni.org/detail_page.phtml?page=archives_tblick_aruba (http://www.s1on1.com/main/index.cgi/000000A/http/www.tni.org/detail_page.phtml?page=archives_tblick_aruba)

(http://www.s1on1.com/main/index.cgi/000000A/http/www.tni.org/images/pubs/acaruana.jpg)



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Rob on June 24, 2008, 11:07:59 AM
I too believe Betico was assassinated. I wrote about it on my blog, so I'm aware of what took place. The info I gathered is the usual run of the mill stuff that most have also read. That's what is available in English.

So, let's just speculate that Betico was indeed assassinated. Who would be motivated? That's the first question. Who benefits when Betico is gone? Oduber does. We know that, but that's the public end. Who benefits on the underworld end?

Removing Betico from the public scene could help the Cuntera's or other mob related interests. Do we know whether there was anything that put Betico and the Mob at odds? I'm not sure I have seen anything, and one other thing makes me wonder...-> why would the mob kill Betico when he removes Holland from the picture in a lot of areas? He makes it easier to move drugs and launder money. So, if that's true, maybe it's not the mob that kills Betico, but someone in the opposition that wanted him dead for REMOVING HOLLAND. Maybe the Babylonians killed Betico?

 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 24, 2008, 11:14:06 AM
According to Caps, Dirty Hand is the guy whose name I will never spell correctly...Deutkom or whatever.  I don't know enough about him to explain his reasoning...in fact...I doubt the FP posters had ever heard of him when Shango was posting...so once again...context is everything...but only in my book.   :roll:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 24, 2008, 11:19:56 AM
Rob - there was a rumor that a certain family was involved in the accident.

Mum and LaLa's - who knows, maybe Julia Renfro could even be Dirty Hand.  ::MonkeyHaHa::  Just like JM, her newspaper goes to all houses.  Who has been a consort to the fallen elder?   ::MonkeyRoll::  Check the party-goers.  Oh, and Regnad is here.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 24, 2008, 11:33:49 AM
Rob - there was a rumor that a certain family was involved in the accident.

Mum and LaLa's - who knows, maybe Julia Renfro could even be Dirty Hand.  ::MonkeyHaHa::  Just like JM, her newspaper goes to all houses.  Who has been a consort to the fallen elder?   ::MonkeyRoll::  Check the party-goers.  Oh, and Regnad is here.

That darn Regnad!  He really should move on. :roll:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 24, 2008, 11:37:55 AM
And lest I stir another controversy?  There are other newspapers that go in all houses and are read by the locals.  Didn't call any names, but Regnad beware!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 24, 2008, 11:52:56 AM
And lest I stir another controversy?  There are other newspapers that go in all houses and are read by the locals.  Didn't call any names, but Regnad beware!


LOL

SS...my notes that I found while checking out Damilice Mansur...not her's...too much to post right now...Some-one on Damilices friend's list has Jc Jr as a friend and can't find it in my notes...here are some interesting connections...as Lala's said ... they all know each other...

Lalo Croes

Lalo Croes | FacebookNizana Solognier · Damilice Mansur Damilice Mansur
· Desiree Coronel Desiree Coronel · Dana Ber Dana Ber · Armin E.
Solognier Armin E. Solognier ...
www.facebook.com/people/Lalo_Croes/608906702 - 17k - Cached - Similar
pages

Well Lalo Croes is married to Michael Saladin, an American living in
Aruba, not sure if he is jail! And Lalo's sister Guisette and Michael 
Saladin are the vocalists in the Mi Dushi Band!!!



Betico's daughter????


Aruba's official Holiday to remember him has been marked on January
25, his birth date.

Caya G. F. Betico Croes is named for him and is the main shopping
street in Oranjestad, Aruba.

Has 2 sons, Glenbert and Junior Croes and 2 daughters Lalo Saladin-
Croes and Guisette Croes.

MySpace.com - Dushi Band of Aruba - Oranjestad, Caribbean - Techno ...
Band Members, Hildward Croes (Director / Keyboards / Vocals), Guisette Croes (Vocals), Michael Saladin (Vocals), Melvin Garcia (Vocals), ...profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=27529601 - 193k - Cached - Similar pages
Gay News From 365Gay.com
Aug 21, 2005 ... "Being gay is still taboo in Aruba," said Guisette Croes, 41, a lesbian who owns a music store in the capital, Oranjestad, ...www.365gay.com/newscon05/08/082105Aruba.htm - 28k -






Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 24, 2008, 12:27:34 PM
And lest I stir another controversy?  There are other newspapers that go in all houses and are read by the locals.  Didn't call any names, but Regnad beware!


LOL

SS...my notes that I found while checking out Damilice Mansur...not her's...too much to post right now...Some-one on Damilices friend's list has Jc Jr as a friend and can't find it in my notes...here are some interesting connections...as Lala's said ... they all know each other...

Lalo Croes

Lalo Croes | FacebookNizana Solognier · Damilice Mansur Damilice Mansur
· Desiree Coronel Desiree Coronel · Dana Ber Dana Ber · Armin E.
Solognier Armin E. Solognier ...
www.facebook.com/people/Lalo_Croes/608906702 - 17k - Cached - Similar
pages

Well Lalo Croes is married to Michael Saladin, an American living in
Aruba, not sure if he is jail! And Lalo's sister Guisette and Michael 
Saladin are the vocalists in the Mi Dushi Band!!!



Betico's daughter????


Aruba's official Holiday to remember him has been marked on January
25, his birth date.

Caya G. F. Betico Croes is named for him and is the main shopping
street in Oranjestad, Aruba.

Has 2 sons, Glenbert and Junior Croes and 2 daughters Lalo Saladin-
Croes and Guisette Croes.

MySpace.com - Dushi Band of Aruba - Oranjestad, Caribbean - Techno ...
Band Members, Hildward Croes (Director / Keyboards / Vocals), Guisette Croes (Vocals), Michael Saladin (Vocals), Melvin Garcia (Vocals), ...profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=27529601 - 193k - Cached - Similar pages
Gay News From 365Gay.com
Aug 21, 2005 ... "Being gay is still taboo in Aruba," said Guisette Croes, 41, a lesbian who owns a music store in the capital, Oranjestad, ...www.365gay.com/newscon05/08/082105Aruba.htm - 28k -






Wow! The plot thickens!



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 24, 2008, 12:39:21 PM
Hey SS!
This one's for you.  ::MonkeyWink::

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8rZWw9HE7o&feature=related


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on June 24, 2008, 01:17:38 PM
A Casino is also called a Gambling HOUSE. So if we look at HOUSE as a Casino, a simple party at his 'house' would be a party at HIS (the owners') casino. Then the 'cars of the house' could be taxi's or limos that bring the high rollers from the airport to the hotel/casino. 

Maybe "THE GAME" is all the cheating and money laundering taking place inside the casinos as the watchtower centries are sleeping.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 6:04 pm
Lucy you are wrong. It was just a simple party at his house. He was [there] “the whole time.”

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 3:31 pm
The father was confronted with evidence. Can’t confirm if it’s from the cars of the house. They needed this to make him talk. [Maybe this was not Paulus, but the 'other father'-the casino owner?]

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:18 pm
Shock means well. He understands the Babylonians, but they don’t hold the hammer nor the block [the judge] The alibi needs to be broken. The party-go-ers need to be pressured. They have seen from the corners of their eyes. The house was dusted.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:58 pm
Halls of the house of babylon may suddenly twist to accomodate cowboys walking in the maze. No loot, but many answers. Better twisted hallways than fallen houses. Many invisible spirits around Arawak Fires. Many gods watching. we must have a sacrifice. Light the fires!

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:54 pm
The Arawaks are not going to sacrifice a scapegoat. Babylon needs to allow one sacrifice to keep DirtyHand hidden. Babylon scared of DirtyHand. Arawaks scared of DirtyHand. If sacrifice is made, teepees are safe, villagers and cowboys happy. If DirtyHand discovered, House of Babylon falls, Teepees crushed under great house

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:58 pm
Arawaks want to make cowboys happy. Babylonians want to maintain integrity of Great House. Gods of the cowboys know there was a game in the great house, and so DirtyHand was discovered. But the sacrifice will be offered before dirty hand sings. He will return to babylon, broken but anonymous.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 6:13 pm
His lordship did not bring the key, it does not exist. doors to eden remain closed. The arawaks hold the singing cards. They have the babylonian and 2 shivas. But the other card is dirty. Even if you play cards in the house of babylon as an arawak, you still have DirtyHand. If DirtyHand comes out of hiding, Babylon will fall and the cowboys will circle the wagons. DirtyHand can destroy the Arawaks and Babylon. Better to prepare the sacrifice quickly so the cowboys go home ….without the loot

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 8:11 pm
One straight path to the house of Rave, while of gold bricks the road is not paved, answers mysterious lie within magical letters which spell sin XTC DNA .

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:48 pm
The card of babylon was already played. if it sings, DirtyHand will bring down the Royal House on top of the Arawak Nation. the gods have handed down a pipe of peace, but a sacrifice will be made. Some elders of the game, not just of babylon walk in older circles. cowboys hear the singing, but the words are not understood. The gods and the babylonians are worried about the cowboys response.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:01 pm
Arawaks often go to play in small houses of Babylon with the offspring of the Elders.

Shango Says:June 26th, 2005 at 10:13 pm
DirtyHand walks in ALL houses.  houses of the Arawaks, and houses of Rave.  He can break the alibi.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:30 pm
You always find forbidden desires in the small houses of Babylon. the girl knew this. Find DirtyHand! He too walked in this house of Babylon. But not to satiate desire.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:41 pm
even after a daughter gives birth to a grandchild, the father of the new mother will still claim his daughter is a virgin. All who enter the damned corridors of the houses of Babylon know the dangers that await. But the knowledge that they are forbidden is what makes them so pleasurable.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:45 pm
All who enter the damned corridors of the houses of Babylon know the dangers that await.

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:41 pm
Mary ROLLED through the Maze. There is more than one house of music. the Lamb is a scapegoat.

Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 2:39 am
The arawaks must hunt the lions in the place of darkness house of secrets

Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 2:59 am
The Simian Doppleganger is upset because the arawak nation is hiding the truth from the cowboys. DirtyHand knows. Simian knows. The Simian stated for 2 days, the key would come from the hague the next day. Shango said no two times. Is Simian a DirtyHand too. Has the Simian played with the lions in the houses of ill-repute and poison notes where the innocent flies are lured? Has the Simian, primate that he is, fed with the other animals? Back ye fetid mongrel, as the 46th are you; delegate of the 7th level of inferno, not birthed, but spewed from the dark chasm of a nightmare!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 24, 2008, 01:39:49 PM
Thanks Poochy...Jaime's dad worked at the Wyndham, it is in his PV about picking his Dad up at 11PM...also the one with the mispelt name, according to some FP posters, and Julia said she had spoken to him around the time of the August arrests.

Thanks for the gambling house...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 24, 2008, 01:49:50 PM
Hey SS!
This one's for you.  ::MonkeyWink::

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8rZWw9HE7o&feature=related




 ::MonkeyWink::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on June 24, 2008, 02:48:16 PM
Thanks Poochy...Jaime's dad worked at the Wyndham, it is in his PV about picking his Dad up at 11PM...also the one with the mispelt name, according to some FP posters, and Julia said she had spoken to him around the time of the August arrests.

Thanks for the gambling house...


Mum - Thanks - totally forgot Jaime's dad worked at the Wyndham.

Follow the star (stellaris)- see the star logo on the link at their website http://www.stellariscasino.com/
Aruba Marriott Resort, Palm Beach, Aruba
This 'house' seems to be the 'largest' casino on Aruba. 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 24, 2008, 03:25:29 PM
Thanks Poochy...Jaime's dad worked at the Wyndham, it is in his PV about picking his Dad up at 11PM...also the one with the mispelt name, according to some FP posters, and Julia said she had spoken to him around the time of the August arrests.

Thanks for the gambling house...


Mum - Thanks - totally forgot Jaime's dad worked at the Wyndham.

Follow the star (stellaris)- see the star logo on the link at their website http://www.stellariscasino.com/
Aruba Marriott Resort, Palm Beach, Aruba
This 'house' seems to be the 'largest' casino on Aruba. 

Ah!...But is it the Star where the deadends meet?

Thought COLUMBO would have popped in by now!  ::MonkeyHaHa::

Link to the Arambatzis thread....

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2973.new#new



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on June 24, 2008, 03:35:35 PM
Wizard of Oz....follow the Yellow Brick Road... (of gold bricks the road is not paved (BRICKell ?))

2:31 PM
the grey whisper said...the talisman in his hand is running out of charms. the broomsticks are enchanted, but their master may regret the dance now that it has been set in motion.

Talisman "A talisman is a magical object you usually wear on a chain around your neck [bling bling]. The talisman's magic, unlike the amulet's, is not only warding off (repelling), but also proactive (performing magic), such as healing, alerting, spellsending, cursing etc. The magic is in the object and therefore never expires."

http://tinyurl.com/6blfv8

"... Could it be that our current methods of seeking the Good are based on a deceptive view of the Good, and even some times a deliberately deceptive view of the Good? Dorothy was sent to achieve a certain goal—having been assured by the expert Wizard of Oz that once she obtained the witch’s broomstick she would win her trip home.This was a deception: the quest for the broomstick had nothing to do with her ability to gain the Good she sought, to gain her goal of a return to Kansas. Dorothy was lucky—she won her freedom—but only after she discovered the Wizard’s deception, only after she recognized that neither the Wizard nor the broomstick was a magic talisman with the power to grant her wish. She was amazed to find that she had always had the ability to achieve her goal. Her friends—the Lion, the Scarecrow, and the Tin Man—found that they had always been capable of what they had searched for all along—it just took some recognition by their own minds and hearts of their own capacities. The search for the broomstick had shown them all that they had hidden strengths and skills. (In this, I have always enjoyed this movie.) The author had deliberately written it that way. Dorothy went after the broomstick without any guarantee that it would work to get her home. There is nothing intrinsic about a broomstick—even a witch’s broomstick, which in fairy tales has all sorts of powers—nothing that made it obvious that it had the power to do what she wanted. She trusted the word of the “expert” Wizard. How much of the information we are given by “experts” is designed to induce behavior for motives we aren’t aware of. How many “broomsticks” are we all chasing? It turned out that Dorothy’s actions freed a lot of people from a tyranny—but there was nothing intrinsic in the story that could have given her that belief before she did it. Moreover, the only reason it ended that way was because the author, Baum, wrote it that way. It could just as easily ended that the broomstick itself gave the Wizard the power to enslave a lot of people, instead..."



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 24, 2008, 03:49:27 PM
Those danged Florida connections...there they are again. ::MonkeyCool::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 24, 2008, 04:06:08 PM
Fine!  The fallen elder is not Paulus...Merian referred to him as the same...so I guess I am mistaken. To me, it is the only thing that fits at this point.  In context he was referenced as a failed judge, so when Shango said elder, at that point in time, which would be in June...Paulus was the person everyone was talking about on the FP comments.  Merian used the term also...so again...I am using the plain and simple version because Shango was speaking to posters from all over the world on the FP.  Remember Shango is the one that mentions the elders and how they run things on the island.  Simian began to use Shango's terms such as the difference between Sumerians and Arawaks. Obviously I am mistaken here but that is my opinion and I'm sticking to it for the time being.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:29 pm
There will be sacrifice
Tribal elders worried
Bad wampum, many moons
Light the fires


Shango Says:June 26th, 2005 at 10:48 pm
Coverups begin with elders and the founders of the houses of Babylon
Not the minions
DirtyHand knows this

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:53 pm
DirtyHand is the key
He walks with the elders
He walks in all houses
And he walked with the fallen elder
he was the hidden card that was played
now if he sings, babylon will fall on the arawak nation

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 11:05 pm
DirtyHand has worked for the elders for a long time


Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 9:51 pm
DirtyHand walks with the Babylons, the Arawaks and is consort to the fallen elder
The gods are talking [/i]


Merian Ernest Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 4:30 pm Post subject: Tuesdays have no character
All along the guards cried. The checkmate was a joke. The boy is a foul mouthed fool.

The elder drags his feet on the pavement. A shadow of his former self. The keys to the
palace have been taken from him, yet he still remembers the passage ways.





I'm with Mum on Paulass as the fallen elder.  He had been denied his judgeship.  Many threads ago, someone was working on Deutekom as Dirty Hand because everyone was afraid of him and he was powerful as a prosecuter.  The question that I have about "can't spell his name" is how he would have walked in all houses if we can't even get a picture of the dude?  If he walks in all houses, wouldn't he be known and recognized by a lot of people?

Poochy - have you run across this guy Deutekom in any of your research?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 24, 2008, 04:20:49 PM
Fine!  The fallen elder is not Paulus...Merian referred to him as the same...so I guess I am mistaken. To me, it is the only thing that fits at this point.  In context he was referenced as a failed judge, so when Shango said elder, at that point in time, which would be in June...Paulus was the person everyone was talking about on the FP comments.  Merian used the term also...so again...I am using the plain and simple version because Shango was speaking to posters from all over the world on the FP.  Remember Shango is the one that mentions the elders and how they run things on the island.  Simian began to use Shango's terms such as the difference between Sumerians and Arawaks. Obviously I am mistaken here but that is my opinion and I'm sticking to it for the time being.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:29 pm
There will be sacrifice
Tribal elders worried
Bad wampum, many moons
Light the fires


Shango Says:June 26th, 2005 at 10:48 pm
Coverups begin with elders and the founders of the houses of Babylon
Not the minions
DirtyHand knows this

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:53 pm
DirtyHand is the key
He walks with the elders
He walks in all houses
And he walked with the fallen elder
he was the hidden card that was played
now if he sings, babylon will fall on the arawak nation

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 11:05 pm
DirtyHand has worked for the elders for a long time


Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 9:51 pm
DirtyHand walks with the Babylons, the Arawaks and is consort to the fallen elder
The gods are talking [/i]


Merian Ernest Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 4:30 pm Post subject: Tuesdays have no character
All along the guards cried. The checkmate was a joke. The boy is a foul mouthed fool.

The elder drags his feet on the pavement. A shadow of his former self. The keys to the
palace have been taken from him, yet he still remembers the passage ways.





I'm with Mum on Paulass as the fallen elder.  He had been denied his judgeship.  Many threads ago, someone was working on Deutekom as Dirty Hand because everyone was afraid of him and he was powerful as a prosecuter.  The question that I have about "can't spell his name" is how he would have walked in all houses if we can't even get a picture of the dude?  If he walks in all houses, wouldn't he be known and recognized by a lot of people?

Poochy - have you run across this guy Deutekom in any of your research?

SS...not sure on Paulus...I am not very good at Shango...or Simian...or Mirian!

I am not surprised we haven't seen a pic of Deutekom, we may have been looking straight at him! We have heaps of pics from Aruba without names.

We only recently realised that there were two Ben Vockings...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 24, 2008, 04:21:37 PM
Poochy - we have three pieces of the Shango tale that we seem to keep going around and around with.  We seem to be stuck on Shango, the 5th suspect, and Dirty Hand.  After all of your research, who do you think these are?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on June 24, 2008, 05:02:09 PM

I'm with Mum on Paulass as the fallen elder.  He had been denied his judgeship.  Many threads ago, someone was working on Deutekom as Dirty Hand because everyone was afraid of him and he was powerful as a prosecuter.  The question that I have about "can't spell his name" is how he would have walked in all houses if we can't even get a picture of the dude?  If he walks in all houses, wouldn't he be known and recognized by a lot of people?

Poochy - have you run across this guy Deutekom in any of your research?

Sorry SS, first time I've heard of "Deutekom" is today.

If Houses = Casinos, who controls or oversees them on Aruba? A gaming or gambling commissioner who 'walks in all HOUSES'? 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 24, 2008, 05:24:36 PM

I'm with Mum on Paulass as the fallen elder.  He had been denied his judgeship.  Many threads ago, someone was working on Deutekom as Dirty Hand because everyone was afraid of him and he was powerful as a prosecuter.  The question that I have about "can't spell his name" is how he would have walked in all houses if we can't even get a picture of the dude?  If he walks in all houses, wouldn't he be known and recognized by a lot of people?

Poochy - have you run across this guy Deutekom in any of your research?

Sorry SS, first time I've heard of "Deutekom" is today.

If Houses = Casinos, who controls or oversees them on Aruba? A gaming or gambling commissioner who 'walks in all HOUSES'? 


I can't remember which one it is...either Judge Smid or Witt...and it will lead you back to the Halls of Justice...Which path?... ::MonkeyHaHa::





Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on June 24, 2008, 05:40:08 PM
Poochy - we have three pieces of the Shango tale that we seem to keep going around and around with.  We seem to be stuck on Shango, the 5th suspect, and Dirty Hand.  After all of your research, who do you think these are?


Dunno. My guess is as good as yours. Each codetalker hid their own agenda in their prose.

Who is Shango? If this was the 'ivy league, blue blooded, handicap of 12 codetalker', then my guess is it's Jossy's son who heard an earful about this case at the Mansur dinner table.   

Who is this 5th suspect? Someone we don't know, a hidden card. A gambler seen that week in the casino.  A "b'friend" from earlier in the week. The guy with Nat on the jewelry store cam. Someone with clout or parents have clout, international amnesty. A Prince, a US Senator's or governer's son as FBI and Condi Rice immediately let their presence be known, someone of that stature. Maybe someone who flew back to the US on the private jet.

Who is DirtyHand? Someone in the mob or a terrorist.  Someone we all thought was deceased now alive and well, hiding on a small island in a house 'by the haystack' and comes from Santa Marta. Well, now he's a broken man, and went back to Babylon. Is Babylon Iraq or is it Netherlands? 

Why hasn't a codetalker posted in all these months? They see us struggling. Did they get what they wanted? Chewed up tongue (and his little willie) bouncing around on the beach? 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 24, 2008, 06:01:05 PM
You guys are reading way too much into these cryptic messages.  The people they were talking to were plain and simple FP posters that knew things in varying degrees. Simian/Merian wanted that 5th suspect to be known, but for reasons I don't exactly know would never say the name.  It could have been because of fear. 

Shango clearly knew dirty hand and did not want to say who it was.  That is the way of a coward considering dirty hand could have solved this case and put the guilty in jail.  Shango showed up shortly after Simian  began implicating this other person 5th suspect.  What does that tell you?  It tells me that Shango knew this 5th person too and was trying to deflect blame from him/her. Why the need to do that?  The fussing between Simian and Shango is apparent and it's just as it is now...factions on Aruba vying for control of the island. Both of these posters were cowards if they knew all this stuff and spent all their time posting on an internet forum instead of going to the FBI with this info. 



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 24, 2008, 06:19:06 PM
Poochy - we have three pieces of the Shango tale that we seem to keep going around and around with.  We seem to be stuck on Shango, the 5th suspect, and Dirty Hand.  After all of your research, who do you think these are?


Dunno. My guess is as good as yours. Each codetalker hid their own agenda in their prose.

Who is Shango? If this was the 'ivy league, blue blooded, handicap of 12 codetalker', then my guess is it's Jossy's son who heard an earful about this case at the Mansur dinner table.   

Who is this 5th suspect? Someone we don't know, a hidden card. A gambler seen that week in the casino.  A "b'friend" from earlier in the week. The guy with Nat on the jewelry store cam. Someone with clout or parents have clout, international amnesty. A Prince, a US Senator's or governer's son as FBI and Condi Rice immediately let their presence be known, someone of that stature. Maybe someone who flew back to the US on the private jet.

Who is DirtyHand? Someone in the mob or a terrorist.  Someone we all thought was deceased now alive and well, hiding on a small island in a house 'by the haystack' and comes from Santa Marta. Well, now he's a broken man, and went back to Babylon. Is Babylon Iraq or is it Netherlands? 

Why hasn't a codetalker posted in all these months? They see us struggling. Did they get what they wanted? Chewed up tongue (and his little willie) bouncing around on the beach? 



Thanks Poochy.  I've never been to Aruba, have you?  Where is Santa Marta?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 24, 2008, 06:32:59 PM
What if Babylon is casinos?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Silverfox on June 24, 2008, 07:57:05 PM
What if Babylon is casinos?


Actually not all that far fetched. 

And actually you all may have cracked the code. 

if Babylon = Casinos

Study Revelations 18:

Lament Over Fallen Babylon

 
Quote
  1 After this I saw another angel coming down from heaven. He had great authority, and the earth was illuminated by his splendor. 2 With a mighty voice he shouted:
       " 'Fallen! Fallen is Babylon the Great!' [a]
       She has become a dwelling for demons
       and a haunt for every evil spirit,
       a haunt for every unclean bird,
       a haunt for every unclean and detestable animal.

    3 For all the nations have drunk
       the maddening wine of her adulteries.
       The kings of the earth committed adultery with her,
       and the merchants of the earth grew rich from her excessive luxuries."

http://www.ibs.org/bible/verse/?q=Revelation%2018 (http://www.ibs.org/bible/verse/?q=Revelation%2018)

Casino Culture is a counter culture (sub).  Paulus and Joran (a judge and a spoiled minor) were given free access.  The Sicilian Mafia previously owned HI --- Posner was operating at the time -- but all the other casinos on the island would also be connected.  The hidden man may very well be Mafioso.  The ties to the top leaders of the country would be indesputable for if he were arrested and made to testify he would bring them all down --

So, start thinking of Babylon not as Holland -- but as the Casino world.  It fits pretty dramatically IMO....


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on June 24, 2008, 08:21:57 PM
What if Babylon is casinos?



never thought of that........



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on June 24, 2008, 08:33:04 PM
A Casino is also called a Gambling HOUSE. So if we look at HOUSE as a Casino, a simple party at his 'house' would be a party at HIS (the owners') casino. Then the 'cars of the house' could be taxi's or limos that bring the high rollers from the airport to the hotel/casino. 

Maybe "THE GAME" is all the cheating and money laundering taking place inside the casinos as the watchtower centries are sleeping.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 6:04 pm
Lucy you are wrong. It was just a simple party at his house. He was [there] “the whole time.”

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 3:31 pm
The father was confronted with evidence. Can’t confirm if it’s from the cars of the house. They needed this to make him talk. [Maybe this was not Paulus, but the 'other father'-the casino owner?]

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:18 pm
Shock means well. He understands the Babylonians, but they don’t hold the hammer nor the block [the judge] The alibi needs to be broken. The party-go-ers need to be pressured. They have seen from the corners of their eyes. The house was dusted.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:58 pm
Halls of the house of babylon may suddenly twist to accomodate cowboys walking in the maze. No loot, but many answers. Better twisted hallways than fallen houses. Many invisible spirits around Arawak Fires. Many gods watching. we must have a sacrifice. Light the fires!

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:54 pm
The Arawaks are not going to sacrifice a scapegoat. Babylon needs to allow one sacrifice to keep DirtyHand hidden. Babylon scared of DirtyHand. Arawaks scared of DirtyHand. If sacrifice is made, teepees are safe, villagers and cowboys happy. If DirtyHand discovered, House of Babylon falls, Teepees crushed under great house

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:58 pm
Arawaks want to make cowboys happy. Babylonians want to maintain integrity of Great House. Gods of the cowboys know there was a game in the great house, and so DirtyHand was discovered. But the sacrifice will be offered before dirty hand sings. He will return to babylon, broken but anonymous.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 6:13 pm
His lordship did not bring the key, it does not exist. doors to eden remain closed. The arawaks hold the singing cards. They have the babylonian and 2 shivas. But the other card is dirty. Even if you play cards in the house of babylon as an arawak, you still have DirtyHand. If DirtyHand comes out of hiding, Babylon will fall and the cowboys will circle the wagons. DirtyHand can destroy the Arawaks and Babylon. Better to prepare the sacrifice quickly so the cowboys go home ….without the loot

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 8:11 pm
One straight path to the house of Rave, while of gold bricks the road is not paved, answers mysterious lie within magical letters which spell sin XTC DNA .

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:48 pm
The card of babylon was already played. if it sings, DirtyHand will bring down the Royal House on top of the Arawak Nation. the gods have handed down a pipe of peace, but a sacrifice will be made. Some elders of the game, not just of babylon walk in older circles. cowboys hear the singing, but the words are not understood. The gods and the babylonians are worried about the cowboys response.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:01 pm
Arawaks often go to play in small houses of Babylon with the offspring of the Elders.

Shango Says:June 26th, 2005 at 10:13 pm
DirtyHand walks in ALL houses.  houses of the Arawaks, and houses of Rave.  He can break the alibi.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:30 pm
You always find forbidden desires in the small houses of Babylon. the girl knew this. Find DirtyHand! He too walked in this house of Babylon. But not to satiate desire.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:41 pm
even after a daughter gives birth to a grandchild, the father of the new mother will still claim his daughter is a virgin. All who enter the damned corridors of the houses of Babylon know the dangers that await. But the knowledge that they are forbidden is what makes them so pleasurable.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:45 pm
All who enter the damned corridors of the houses of Babylon know the dangers that await.

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:41 pm
Mary ROLLED through the Maze. There is more than one house of music. the Lamb is a scapegoat.

Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 2:39 am
The arawaks must hunt the lions in the place of darkness house of secrets

Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 2:59 am
The Simian Doppleganger is upset because the arawak nation is hiding the truth from the cowboys. DirtyHand knows. Simian knows. The Simian stated for 2 days, the key would come from the hague the next day. Shango said no two times. Is Simian a DirtyHand too. Has the Simian played with the lions in the houses of ill-repute and poison notes where the innocent flies are lured? Has the Simian, primate that he is, fed with the other animals? Back ye fetid mongrel, as the 46th are you; delegate of the 7th level of inferno, not birthed, but spewed from the dark chasm of a nightmare!


poison notes.....credit limits?


play cards in the house of babylon as an arawak....note the reference to playing cards! not a card game:
-the arawaks (cops) hold the singing card
-there is also a trio

play/game:
http://www.ca11.uscourts.gov/opinions/ops/200214306.pdf
p.4  Both pimps and prostitutes generally referred to their activities as “the game.”



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 24, 2008, 08:38:52 PM
What if Babylon is casinos?



never thought of that........




and I guess you missed my post about the Wyndham,  too?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on June 24, 2008, 08:41:47 PM
http://www.ipsn.org/lolli1.html

Acting through his underboss, Rocco Ernest Infelise, head of one of the largest "street crews" in Chicago, Ferriola directed Jahoda to lure 51-year-old Robert Heyden Plummer to the outfit's elegantly appointed "Murder Mansion" in northern Libertyville Township. The secluded Lake County mansion in the woods once belonged to a local millionaire, Bruce Rouse, and his wife, Darlene, until they were brutally murdered in 1980. Their case was never solved. The mob bought up acreage and spent $50,000 converting the former residence into a high stakes casino that employed eighteen full-time people (all "well-fed") to accommodate the gambling high rollers (ROLLERS) and fun- loving clientele who parked their cars in the rear. (lions which "play") Reportedly, the outfit raked in $400,000 for just fifteen nights of casino gambling (gold bricks). According to Jahoda, political protection was supplied by former Lake County Sheriff Tom Brown (dirty hand), whose elected term spanned 1978 - 1982.

The Murder Mansion was an appropriate setting for what Rocky Infelise had in mind. He told the skittish Jahoda a few short hours before a well-planned murder to lead the unsuspecting Bobby Plummer up the flight of stairs to the second-floor casino and "just keep going." Plummer was a "revenue collector" for Ferriola, and a gambler of long standing in the northern suburbs. He also operated the Front Runner Messenger Service, a horse-betting parlor in Highwood belonging to Michael Posner, a protégé of Ferriola and a kingpin in Lake County mob vice operations. Plummer, of north suburban Lake Forest, was attacked on the stairway and savagely beaten to death. His body was found in the trunk of his wife's Lincoln Continental in a Mundelein Holiday Inn parking lot.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Silverfox on June 24, 2008, 08:46:51 PM
According to the lore Babylon was the sinful city: drugs, prostitution, drinking and drugs and gambling.

Shango skillfully separated cultures.  Arawaks (the locals) Cowboys (Americans or other westerners) Babylonians (Casino culture), etc., etc.

If you take the riddles and read them with that understanding then a different, albeit more sinister, meaning starts to unfold.

All roads lead back to the casinos.

1. private party
2. mules are sent to retrieve a package -- probably for the pleasure of an elder or group of elders
3. package is delivered (may possibly be 'wrong package' - but delivered all the same
4. party went on and something bad happened
5. the mules (including the father as part of the selection committee) have to come up with alibi as they were last to be seen with the package
6. the Babylonians have to dispose of the 'evidence' and seeing as though they already are very skilled in that vocational endeavor they do so
7. alibis are hurriedly put together
8. unbeknownst to those players enforcement and intelligent agencies were monitoring what was going on -- this complicated things
9. Babylonians are hiding and trying to protect one or more 'persons of interest'

All the pieces start to fit together then.  Judges who suddenly reverse their rulings as soon as they leave the island.  Proscutors and ALE suddenly lose evidence (conveniently) including interrogations, etc.

Payoffs...intimidations...and combinations of the two

Now from a historical look back....

The Sicilian Mafia with the likes of Scarface assisted US forces during WWII --- It is said the American-Sicilian Mafia intervened and assisted in Bay of Pigs and other Cuban infiltration efforts during the 60's.  It is said that the famous 'Fruit' company issues of South American during the 50s, 60s, 70s et al were all tied, somehow to the same group.  Assasinations tooks place, governments were overthrown, etc., etc.

I believe Shango was telling us that Babylonia was the City of Casinos and this is why he became angered at Simian when he accused him of basically being tainted by same corruptive forces.

It would make sense that Shango would make some Biblical references -- And while most folks were concentrating on making Holland, Babylon it was right there the whole time including other terms like sacrificial lamb, mary, etc....

Babylon = casinos = city of sin and evil


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Silverfox on June 24, 2008, 09:27:02 PM
What if Babylon is casinos?



never thought of that........




and I guess you missed my post about the Wyndham,  too?

They are all tied and linked together.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on June 24, 2008, 09:31:41 PM
Ca$ino:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2tNAUUh0Dw&feature=related


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Rob on June 24, 2008, 09:32:11 PM
What if Babylon is casinos?


Actually not all that far fetched. 

And actually you all may have cracked the code. 

if Babylon = Casinos

Study Revelations 18:

Lament Over Fallen Babylon

 
Quote
  1 After this I saw another angel coming down from heaven. He had great authority, and the earth was illuminated by his splendor. 2 With a mighty voice he shouted:
       " 'Fallen! Fallen is Babylon the Great!' [a]
       She has become a dwelling for demons
       and a haunt for every evil spirit,
       a haunt for every unclean bird,
       a haunt for every unclean and detestable animal.

    3 For all the nations have drunk
       the maddening wine of her adulteries.
       The kings of the earth committed adultery with her,
       and the merchants of the earth grew rich from her excessive luxuries."

http://www.ibs.org/bible/verse/?q=Revelation%2018 (http://www.ibs.org/bible/verse/?q=Revelation%2018)

Casino Culture is a counter culture (sub).  Paulus and Joran (a judge and a spoiled minor) were given free access.  The Sicilian Mafia previously owned HI --- Posner was operating at the time -- but all the other casinos on the island would also be connected.  The hidden man may very well be Mafioso.  The ties to the top leaders of the country would be indesputable for if he were arrested and made to testify he would bring them all down --

So, start thinking of Babylon not as Holland -- but as the Casino world.  It fits pretty dramatically IMO....

casinos connect to CMB


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on June 24, 2008, 09:35:47 PM
native Arubans=Indians

arawaks hold the singing card
there is also a trio
arawaks can't let babylonian card sing
because hand holding it dirty too

dirty hand

a sacrifice will be made to spare the polis
to spare the teepees


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Rob on June 24, 2008, 09:37:59 PM

Who is DirtyHand? Someone in the mob or a terrorist.  Someone we all thought was deceased now alive and well, hiding on a small island in a house 'by the haystack' and comes from Santa Marta. Well, now he's a broken man, and went back to Babylon. Is Babylon Iraq or is it Netherlands? 

Poochy, we really need to know if Carlos Ledher is alive or dead.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Observer on June 24, 2008, 09:41:59 PM
It makes perfect sense..Prostitution,The Mob,Money,Laundering and Drugs..All affiliated with the casino's and the people involved in this case.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 24, 2008, 10:00:08 PM
"I took the camera to Freddy’s house.
We delivered the camera to Freddy, and afterwards all four of us ate Chinese in the area of Freddy’s house. Freddy also lives in Montanja."
(Satish Kalpoe Suspect Statement June 24, 2005.)

Zedan Arambatzis – age 21 in 2005
Joran met Freddy Zedan Arambatzis when Freddy was 19, they met during a tournament at the racquetball club. (source:p. 1 Jorans book)
Freddy is a light colored latino from Venezuela that only spoke papi. (source: p. 1 Joran's book)
Freddy's English sucked (source p. 5 Joran's book)
I am the best friend and neighbor of Joran. We got to know each other about two years ago.(source: June 12 Freddy's statement as written in Joran's book)
Freddy lives behind Joran.( D-6/11)

19 Montanja Joran van der Sloot
232 Montanja Jaime Carrasquilla
7A Catiri Freddy Zedan Arambatziz


I have been thinking about Freddy, the light skinned Latino, from Venezuela, that only spoke Pap, while working on the Arambatzis post!

If Joran is speaking the truth, for once, his 'Freddy' is probably Aruban. But if Freddy Zedan was Venezuela he probably didn't speak Pap!

The Language
Spanish is the main language of Venezuela. However, Venezuelan Spanish differs in pronounciation from the Spanish spoken in Spain. There are also some variations in vocabulary. Venezuelans call their language castellano.

Arubagirl couldn't find 'Freddy's' house when he was arrested in August of 2005, Caps couldn't find 'Freddy's' house in 2008.





Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 24, 2008, 10:05:06 PM
http://www.ipsn.org/lolli1.html

Acting through his underboss, Rocco Ernest Infelise, head of one of the largest "street crews" in Chicago, Ferriola directed Jahoda to lure 51-year-old Robert Heyden Plummer to the outfit's elegantly appointed "Murder Mansion" in northern Libertyville Township. The secluded Lake County mansion in the woods once belonged to a local millionaire, Bruce Rouse, and his wife, Darlene, until they were brutally murdered in 1980. Their case was never solved. The mob bought up acreage and spent $50,000 converting the former residence into a high stakes casino that employed eighteen full-time people (all "well-fed") to accommodate the gambling high rollers (ROLLERS) and fun- loving clientele who parked their cars in the rear. (lions which "play") Reportedly, the outfit raked in $400,000 for just fifteen nights of casino gambling (gold bricks). According to Jahoda, political protection was supplied by former Lake County Sheriff Tom Brown (dirty hand), whose elected term spanned 1978 - 1982.

The Murder Mansion was an appropriate setting for what Rocky Infelise had in mind. He told the skittish Jahoda a few short hours before a well-planned murder to lead the unsuspecting Bobby Plummer up the flight of stairs to the second-floor casino and "just keep going." Plummer was a "revenue collector" for Ferriola, and a gambler of long standing in the northern suburbs. He also operated the Front Runner Messenger Service, a horse-betting parlor in Highwood belonging to Michael Posner, a protégé of Ferriola and a kingpin in Lake County mob vice operations. Plummer, of north suburban Lake Forest, was attacked on the stairway and savagely beaten to death. His body was found in the trunk of his wife's Lincoln Continental in a Mundelein Holiday Inn parking lot.



COLUMBO...Do you have Michael Posner's full name and aliases? If I need a break from Florida, I would like to visit Chicago. TIA   ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on June 24, 2008, 10:12:57 PM

Thanks Poochy.  I've never been to Aruba, have you?  Where is Santa Marta?

Merian Ernest   7/13/05 5:51 pm
Find Aruba. Find the Haystack [HOOIBERG]. Find Santa Marta [SEE BELOW]. Trace with your finger what the Antenna has spoken about. Unleash the dogs. Inch by inch…grid by grid.

Merian Ernest 7/26/05 3:51pm
The Multi fractions spell democracy to the Simian. The tyranny of duality does not live in the conuco. Yes or no are not the only answers.  Pick up the pieces and make an island. Only the one who chopped it down understands. Sell your convictions to try and understand. Start anew, a new man. Who says the one who broke is the one who knows? Look by the haystack [HOOIBERG] in the small hours. They live in the conuco, but they are the only ones who can open the palace doors. The federales should be careful not to grease the palace floors. The robed ones will squeeze an escape through passageways used once before.  The checkmate is the same the tables might have turned. There are no donkeys or mules in chess only horses.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Marta_%28disambiguation%29

Real-world Communities
Colombia
Santa Marta, Magdalena department
Sierra Nevada de Santa Marta

Mexico
Santa Marta, Baja California Sur
Santa Marta, Sonora
Metro Santa Marta, a station on the Mexico City Metro

Portugal
Santa Marta de Penaguião
Santa Marta de Portuzelo

Spain
Santa Marta, Badajoz
Santa Marta del Cerro, Segovia
Santa Marta de Tormes, Salamanca
Santa Marta de Magasca, Cáceres province
Cubillas de Santa Marta, Valladolid province

United States
Santa Marta, Florida: former name of Key Biscayne

Fictional Communities
United States
Santa Marta (comics): a fictional city in the DC Comics fictional universe
   **here's our DC comic reference again!***



Simian Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:14 am
The road from the boy’s home leads to the dirty water. Look for Noord and look for Moko.
The cowboys feet are wet. They are not quickdraws, they will creep by the inch. It’s deep and wide. The Babylonians need this, before time runs out.  

Simian Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:33 am
Find Aruba. Look for Noord. Look for Montaña. Look for Moko. Let your fingers connect the dots.
The cowboys feet are deeper in the dirty water. The vultures are hanging around and are ready to pounce. Hang on to your tubes. The Simian doesn’t want to be right.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on June 24, 2008, 10:24:46 PM
native Arubans=Indians

arawaks hold the singing card
there is also a trio
arawaks can't let babylonian card sing
because hand holding it dirty too

dirty hand

a sacrifice will be made to spare the polis
to spare the teepees

YUP -
Native Aruban = Arawak.
Babylonian singing card = Casino owner/worker
Trio = 1 Joran + 2 Kalpoes
Aruban Hand Holding Him = Cop, or mob thug

Native Arubans HOLD the Casino owner/worker.
There is ALSO the trio of Joran and 2 Kalpoes.

Native Arubans can't let casino owner/worker talk because the COP/Mob thug holding him is dirty too.

So, Joran, the sacrifice, will be made to spare the dirty ARUBAN COP/Mob thug , who is in turn holding the Casino owner/worker. 

(Nice to meet you Colombo!)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on June 24, 2008, 10:31:18 PM
http://www.ipsn.org/lolli1.html
<snippet>
"...The Murder Mansion was an appropriate setting for what Rocky Infelise had in mind. He told the skittish Jahoda a few short hours before a well-planned murder to lead the unsuspecting Bobby Plummer up the flight of stairs to the second-floor casino and "just keep going." Plummer was a "revenue collector" for Ferriola, and a gambler of long standing in the northern suburbs. He also operated the Front Runner Messenger Service, a horse-betting parlor in Highwood belonging to Michael Posner, a protégé of Ferriola and a kingpin in Lake County mob vice operations. Plummer, of north suburban Lake Forest, was attacked on the stairway and savagely beaten to death. His body was found in the trunk of his wife's Lincoln Continental in a Mundelein Holiday Inn parking lot.

Colombo - when I read this I got a few things from it. 1) The answer lies on the 'whispering wind' which we all know is the STAIRWAY, 2) trunk of a car  3) Holiday Inn parking lot, 4) a King could be a KINGPIN and 5) There was a Bobby Plummer chaperone on the MB Aruba trip --what a small world).


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on June 24, 2008, 10:42:04 PM
Ca$ino:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2tNAUUh0Dw&feature=related

YUP again. Bingo!

Check this out:

http://tinyurl.com/573cyw
Frederick H. Dulles   (a few of his many 'accomplishments'):
• Completed the acquisition of a Russian hotel-casino project for American investors, including due diligence investigations with provincial government officials in Sakhalin and arranging for the sellers to acquire shares in a U.S. public company.
• Established a casino joint venture in Suriname, set up an Aruba joint venture company, prepared and negotiated the joint venture and casino management agreements.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Silverfox on June 24, 2008, 11:46:10 PM
"Eye in the Sky" is referenced in that Casino movie -- part 3.

"Eye in the Sky" = Casino Camera (control room)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: finngirl on June 25, 2008, 06:29:26 AM
You guys are reading way too much into these cryptic messages.  The people they were talking to were plain and simple FP posters that knew things in varying degrees. Simian/Merian wanted that 5th suspect to be known, but for reasons I don't exactly know would never say the name.  It could have been because of fear. 

Shango clearly knew dirty hand and did not want to say who it was.  That is the way of a coward considering dirty hand could have solved this case and put the guilty in jail.  Shango showed up shortly after Simian  began implicating this other person 5th suspect.  What does that tell you?  It tells me that Shango knew this 5th person too and was trying to deflect blame from him/her. Why the need to do that?  The fussing between Simian and Shango is apparent and it's just as it is now...factions on Aruba vying for control of the island. Both of these posters were cowards if they knew all this stuff and spent all their time posting on an internet forum instead of going to the FBI with this info. 

whose 5th suspect: ALE's or the prosecutor's?

an official/detained suspect reported in the media
or simply someone who set off the hinkymeter?

I doubt that we'll ever know

IMO, sim's predictions re the quarry search
also played a part in shango's first appearance
(as shango, anyway)

also IMO, the context of events
fuels the context of the posts

some of what simian said was obviously misleading ...
both in terms of logic and what we now know
and that may have been of his/her own free will

"Who said they all had sex with her. Nobody did as far as I know" ...
sounded iffy but believable on June 22

sex is a major motive in missing/murdered females cases ...
perhaps the intent was: we will not play up the sex angle here,
no telling where it may lead

the final sim/shango conversations revolve around
sim predicting and shango saying "slow down" ...
ending up w/ sim being wrong/shango saying "told you so"

Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 3:17 pm
Steve Croes is singing.

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 10:35 am 
Anybody want a blessing from Saint Alibi?


if sim was somehow tied to Steve Croes,
perhaps posts were used to slant suspicion away from him
and suggest that he was dragged into something

sim very/very seldom mentions Steve
and appears sympathetic when mention is made ...
while beating fairly hard/steady on the Lorenzo/? drum

the back beat is the alibi, the alibi, break the alibi

sim's source, whether ALE or prosecutor's office,
knew some/not all of the truth
and was blind to the depth of the cover-up

simian was led to believe that he/she was an "insider"
and that was true, to a degree ...
sim's postings served someone's purpose
or they would have been stopped or discredited

#1 the plan was to have the body recovered
in the waters of the quarry
but for whatever reasons that changed:
too much violence done to the body
or just plain wanting to stonewall,
insisting it can/will blow over eventually:
no body no case

or

#2 recovering the body in the quarry
was never really the plan:
a good way to find a leak is to plant false info
and then see who runs w/ it

Sat June 25
7:59 pm simian:
The fires burned high and bright. Even Saint John denied he knew. The smoke will clear soon. The elder can’t deny. The son can’t talk.


names morph thru cultures/languages.
Jan van der Straaten: Jan = Johannes = John

when the codetalkers say something
is as important as what they say:
shango's first post comes the day before the quarry search,
the day of the double cross

Sun June 26
Paulus is released & goes home.
Steve Croes' release is ordered
but he doesn't walk out until the next morning

2:58 pm simian:
The music man’s song was not on the bill
=
Steve Croes stepping forward w/ alibi was a rogue move,
unanticipated by those in charge

3:09 pm shango:
Simian, who else plays in the orchestra? A Babylonian….
=
"I'm here and I know as much as you do, perhaps more ...
please enlighten our readers"

3:18 pm simian:
The alibi needs to be broken. The party-go-ers need to be pressured. They have seen from the corners of their eyes. The house was dusted.

3:18 pm shango:
Simian, why was the key from the Babylons Palace not used to open the Sumerians Door?

3:26 pm shango:
Simian, his lordship did not bring the expected key, the door never existed.

3:30 pm shango:
Simian, his lordship did not bring the key for the Arawaks.

3:33 pm shango:
Simian, His Lordship did not bring the key found in the car, it did not exist.

3:40 pm shango:
The key does not exist .


the message is that the plan has changed,
something did not happen as anticipated,
which simian refuses to believe

4:04 pm simian:
The wire has been shaken. The bird has left.


Paulus is released, a fact not announced to the media for 2 more hours
and then simian is silent for hours
 
shango lays out that Joran will take the fall, in that,
even w/o a body as proof of murder,
he will forever be known as the one last seen w/ Natalee

4:12 pm shango:
The key to edens door did not exist. The refrain has already begun.

4:50 pm shango:
We must have a sacrifice. Hide dirty hand. Light the fires!

4:55 pm shango:
If cowboys see dirty hand, many teepees fall. House of Babylon falls. We must have a sacrifice to feed the cowboys. They go back to the fort with no loot.

4:58 pm shango:
Halls of the house of babylon may suddenly twist to accomodate cowboys walking in the maze.

No loot, but many answers. Better twisted hallways than fallen houses.

5:02 pm shango:
Do not listen to cowgirls who cast shadows on the walls of doubt…. There will be a sacrifice. The cowboys will be happy. The house of Babylon won’t fall and crush the teepees. There will be a sacrifice. Soon many will see smoke signals. Cowboys will go back to fort. But first we need the sacrifice.

5:04 pm shango:
Prepare the fires. We need a sacrifice A babylonian beast. Young Lamb der Sloot.
 
5:51 pm ConcernedUK:
Does Shango liaise with Simian?
 
6:30 pm shango:
Shango is not a Simian Doppleganger and has his own messengers.

8:04 pm shango:
The young Lamb der Sloot shall be the sacrifice for the Arawaks and the cowboys. All will sit around the fire and feast on scapegoat. The gods are talking. DirtyHand is alive and well.


hours later, sim returns, referring to Paulus/saying "I was right" ...
what has simian been told?

there is no loss of confidence, simian is insistent.
sim/shango continue to disagree over tomorrow's outcome

they respond quickly to each other, nearly ignoring the other posters.
any gaps between their back/forth are filled w/ shango's posts,
one after another

9:27 pm simian:
The elder had to come clean. He knows what damage he had caused.

The Simian said to not shake the wire, 'cause the bird would fly away. The Simian would never pose.

Go back and read what the Simian wrote. The Babylonians knows what happened, but they are up in arms. The gamblers knew the girl.

9:30 pm shango:
Who knows what song the elder will sing.

9:32 pm shango:
His lordship is there to preserve babylon, not the elder. Remember dirtyhand!

9:34 pm shango:
The struggle between the babylonians and the arawaks still remains hidden. The arawaks awaited the key.

His lordship said no. The door to eden remains closed. They are preparing the fire.

9:36 pm simian:
All that the gamblers knew was written down. They knew the girl. She spent her nights at their tables.

9:43 pm shango:
Did the babylonians like to make movies? From the tears, a new river will spring forth….

9:48 pm simian:
The boy told the Hindus that he didn’t need their help anymore. This was in the small hours. The confrontation was brutal. So who heeded his call? Who switched places? People…the bloodied, swollen tongue. The boy’s fear runs deep. They accuse him to be Bifrons.

10:24 pm simian:
The boy is no Ajax. He is too afraid of the consequences. He doesn’t want to be made a cafone.

The third act needs to be played and the cowboys will be heroes. This is all a “lugubrious game” to them.

They were all at the party and all of them are turning their heads. One of them needs to be pinched.

10:26 pm simian:
The Simian only speaks for himself.

10:56 pm shango:
The Simian knows his Lordship did not have a key to open the door to eden.

10:59 pm simian:
The package is still due.

11:01 pm simian:
If the door to eden is to be opened with that key, it will be tomorrow or forever remained closed.

11:05 pm shango:
DirtyHand has worked for the elders for a long time

11:09 pm simian:
The whisperer is on the line. The Babylonians know what happened, but their hands are tied.

They do not own the hammer nor the block. The owner of the hammer and the block will never carry the package from the Hague. The trias works infallibly.

The party-go-ers need to be pinched, but no one wants to be the cafone. Including the boy. Too much is at stake and he is no Ajax.

He is biting his tongue so he won’t be able to speak. So afraid he is.


simian's source is the whisperer ...
sim is saying the info is recent/reliable

11:12 pm shango:
Even Flying Birds Sing. If the key does not arrive tomorrow, that door to Eden will remain closed.
 
11:19 pm simian:
The Simian asks that his words not be confused with anyone else’s.

11:23 pm simian:
Who took the boy to the party? Who took him home? Therein lies the third act. Look up the Simian’s posts from days ago.


obviously not Steve Croes ... hmmm, or was it?
simian never points in his direction:
deflection or honest defense?

11:37 pm simian:
How can so many gamblers be wrong about the girl? This is unbelievable. The Babylonians need to pinch the ravers. That will need to happen tomorrow. The Simian is leaving.

12:39 am simian:
Watch tomorrow, but do not speak, and it will all unfold before you.


still confident that the source is correct
and the body will be recovered tomorrow

12:54 am simian:
I am leaving. I am done.


Mon June 27 the day of the quarry search
there was much discussion of the DirtyHand clues
and casino ownership/arabs were brought up.
ConcernedUK became confused & posted:

Very disjointed.
Dirty Hand is casino link to crimes involving, but bigger than, Natalee missing.
Arabs are related to this Island????
Is the kasino owned by Arabs?? Anyone??
Arabs do not equal terrorists. I understand that.
Is Dirty Hand an Arab?

 
Babalu answered and it seems pretty cut/dried IMO:
Babalu says chief of polis/Lucy's later post says polis.
shango repeatedly gives both posts a
LOOK AT THIS, THREADSURFERS

12:30 am Babalu:
ConcernedUK, no, I guess he is head of some local official corps. He is the guy that knows everything and that has been in the house of Babylonians NOT seeking pleasure for himself, so Shango says.So maybe he went to search for Natalee and he is the chief of Polis.

4:00 am shango:
Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon with his 12:30 posting.


there are late-morning reports that 2 search dogs have "hit"

5 hour break: no sim/no shango ...
then genuine sim interspersed w/ poser sim:

9:13 am simian:
Lack of evidence is not proof of innocence. The cowboys are looking everywhere, but the land and waters hold many secrets. The Babylonians need to keep an eye on the cowboys. The process muct be protected. The ravers need to be pinched.

10:51 am simian:
The Babylonians and the cowboys have swarmed the dirty waters. The dead dogs are stinking.

10:59 am simian:
The cowboys’ steel and wires are screaming. The dirty water is large, deep and too wide, but they are sure there is light on their screen. The Babylonians will be proven right. All along they were right. The story given by the gamblers might check out after all.

11:14 am simian:
The road from the boy’s home leads to the dirty water. Look for Noord and look for Moko. The cowboys feet are wet. They are not quickdraws, they will creep by the inch. It’s deep and wide. The Babylonians need this, before time runs out

11:33 am simian:
Find Aruba. Look for Noord. Look for Montaña. Look for Moko. Let your fingers connect the dots.

The cowboys feet are deeper in the dirty water. The vultures are hanging around and are ready to pounce. Hang on to your tubes. The Simian doesn’t want to be right.

11:37 am simian:
Her decapitated body to be found. Her head to wash up on shore later.

11:39 am simian:
Why does anyone want to be the Simian’s doppelganger. The Simian finds that to be counter productive.

11:46 am simian:
I have not left. I do not want to be copied however and would like to stay and speak.

11:58 am simian:
They have found her. Watch your news stations for this one. I said this was to happen. You can praise The Simian later.

12:08 pm simian: 
THEY FOUND HER BODY!!


simian then makes a few posts in spanish,
similar in meaning/translation of one is:

12:11 pm
he said to keep watching the news, and that he apologizes for the confusion, but he is tired of people trying to impersonate him


shango has been silent all morning
until simian/or doppelganger announces the body is found, then:

12:12 pm shango:
Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon with his 12:30 AM posting.
 
If the cowboys do not find the loot today, it will not be found

12:26 pm shango:
Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon with his 12:30 AM posting.

Simian your Doppleganger is with us

12:28 pm shango:
Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon with his 12:30 AM posting


shango knows the body will not be found,
simian is unaware of this ...
shango repeatedly refers to Babalu's DH/polis post

we watch tv, waiting for results of the search,
nothing comes ... simian/shango are silent for 8 hours until:

9:41 pm shango:
One straight path
to the house of Rave,
while of gold bricks
the road is not paved,
answers mysterious lie within
magical letters which spell sin
XTC DNA

9:44 pm shango:
Babalu opened a window looking into babylon on his 12:30 A.M. Post. DirtyHand is alive

9:46 pm shango:
Shango said the key to the Hague did not exist
that door to eden remains closed
until the house with the path
But not of gold
is entered

9:48 pm shango:
Babalu knew who dirty hand was at half past 12

10:30 pm drax:
Young Babylonians and Shivas do not build sand castles= they weren’t on the beach?

10:32 pm shango:
THE DRAX SCORES

10:45 pm shango:
Windows looking onto Babylon are being opened by the ThreadSurfers.
 
10:56 pm Lucy:
Someone said last night that Dirty Hand was somebody in the police.

10:57 pm drax:
DirtyHand has walked through the maze:…is DirtyHand Poppa VDS?

11:01 pm shango:
The Drax asks a question for which he already provided an answer

11:04 pm shango:
Babalu opened a window looking onto Babylon with his 12:30 A.M. post.

11:13 pm shango:
Lucy spoke at 10:56.

11:48 pm shango:
The Simian was incorrect about the package from the Hague. I told the Simian, but the Simian would not listen.

The simian is not a simian, but an austrolopithecus
 
11:52 pm shango:
Threadsurfers on other beaches are oblivious to the Maze and the lions. Without exposure, the arawaks will deceive the cowboys, they will leave without loot.


we haven't heard from simian for 12 hours ...
no body recovered/no posts from simian
until finally, well after midnight:

12:04 am shango:
The gods of Babylon have orchested the refrain for the Arawak choir
the music which holds the answers lies within the maze
the cowboys will smile sweetly as the chorus sings
backs turned to the maze
never hearing a single note
from the poison song

12:09 am subdude:
Raves as in XTC parties.

12:11 am shango:
All the Arawaks know the Maze which plays the poison songs.
 
12:14 am shango:
How those innocent young flies enter the trap with honey laden notes.
 
12:14 am Yliana:
And of course you have what we call the mobile pharmacies.

12:18 am Big Pappy:
Yliana, Can you name some places immediately associated with music and young people on the island other than the bars?

12:22 am Yliana:
pappy - we don’t have many places like that - kids usually hang out on the streets or in clubs because there are no other places to hang out. Oh, I forgot a big one - Moomba beach - (near Holiday Inn) - oooh a big one!

12:23 am shango:
Follow the notes
to the poison house
where the children of the babylonians
and the arawak nation
meet, under cover of delusion.
In the maze
the lions which play
shall be found.
The gamblers also took note.
Tell the cowboys!

12:23 am subdude:
Yliana: Why a big one?

12:26 am Yliana:
Subdude - Moomba beach is near the beach under the dark skies and it’s known that bartenders serve more than drinks. Especially when it’s full moon party night.
 
12:28 am shango:
Not all lions leave their den.

12:30 am Yliana:
Most of the cafes are Dutch owned. The Paddock and the Black Hog Saloon are two wild places where the Dutch frequent - not much of a young crowd though. Clubs in hotels come to mind too.

12:34 am Yliana:
There are many ‘country’ houses where parties are held. And these houses are not really mazes but have different rooms where things can happen.
 
12:34 am subdude:
Babylonians are Dutch because Dutch legal system in Aruba, I believe.Arawaks are Arubans. Children of Babylonians could be Dutch kids meeting with Arubans “under cover of delusion” — thinking they are not noticed. I am struggling — just spit balling.
 
12:35 am Yliana:
But I seriously doubt there would have been a party on a school night in a country house. It was after all Tuesday!


she's half-right: it was a school night but not a tuesday

12:37 am shango:
Yliana and Subdude have both opened windows which look into the heart of babylon

do not stray from your paths

you hold the key in hand

12:39 am shango:
The threadsurfers are opening the door to babylon
be careful of the lions
DirtyHand does not have them tamed
but he can enter the den
tell the cowboys

1:05 am subdude:
Yliana, Shango mentioned we had opened windows to the heart of Babylon just after our exchange regarding countryhouses. Dutch kids and Arubans meeting out in the country thinking no one noticed. Country house of the dealers which the police chief has been in.

Shango?
 
1:11 am shango:
See Subdude / Iliana 12:34

1:19 am jetline:
Shango, Do you know all of this because you were at the rave and witnessed what happened to Natalee or did someone else at the rave witness what happened and confide in you? Either way you need to report this to the appropriate authorities. If your story happens to be true and you knew it all along, you could be facing serious criminal charges. Otherwise, I think it is safe to assume that you are playing some kind of sick game and leading all readers on a wild goose chase. If the latter is true, I think your IP should be blocked.

1:32 am shango:
For the doubters: You do not need to see a grain of sand in your eye to know it is there.
 
1:43 am simian: 
The Simian has a handicap of 12.

1:52 am simian:
The Simian says that The Simian only reports developments ahead of time. The Simian thinks was is going on is shameless. Playing with feelings.
 
The Simian’s umbilical is buried close to the heart of the island. NOBODY EVER try to put us down. The Simian hates what he has been reading.

All things must pass.

1:55 am shango:
Find the music. Only David left the den alive

2:01 am simian:
The Simian is getting out. Knows Shango, knows Shock me, knows Checkme. Do not underestimate the power of the ping. Shango is a dumb copycat. Maybe the Simian should place a call on you. Get you 8 days with a hole to take a dump in. Complementary peanut butter on stale bread for you, you fool. The Simian is angry. Over and out.


8 days = Steve Croes' incarceration, give/take a day

2:09 am simian:
The Simian is disappointed. The Simian repeats himself seldom, but likes to say he only reports ahead of time. The clues were solely to avoid implicating sources. Never to hurt the feeling of the readers.

Seeing how this has been used to foul, the Simian will again say that he will retire.


obviously, you can only report ahead of time
if you know what is supposed to happen.
"seeing how this has been used to foul"
refers to being misled/lied to/used

2:13 am Robalo33:
someone wrote earlier the simeon was an austrolopithecus, which is an early man, not a monkey.

But simian. more of the stuff this shango says seems more real than your predictions.
Your predictions about the hague two days ago were wrong.

u were also wrong about the searchers finding natalee

2:15 am: Robalo33:
also that simeon never typed anything when he was upset. i believe that is a simeon poser

2:16 am Robalo33:
what has simeon said that came out true?

2:18 am simian:
f*** the poetry. The Simian is a frenchman. Blue blood if you should know.

2:21 am simian:
The Simian doesn’t make predictions. Only gives the group information ahead of time. Predictions are for fools. This is the Simian.

No me hagan mofa. Estoy molesto por las bobedades de Shango y Shock y Checkme. Se creen, pero no son.

 
translation: I will not be mocked. I am bothered by the bobedades (?) of Shango and Shock and Checkme.  They [are] believe[d], but should not [be].

2:21 am Robalo33:
J’aime mieux passer les temps avec un femme comme vous Simian.

 
translation: I would rather spend time with a woman like you Simian.

2:23 am Robalo33:
Simian tu no hablo nada de veridad todavia, ‘ta siempre la misma vaina con usted cabron?

 
translation: Simian you still do not speak anything true, is it always the same with you, bitch?

2:23 am shango:
?

2:24 am shango:
This Simian is not the Simian. It is a Doppleganger.

2:27 am shango:
Crypticism leads to tributaries of thought which would not usually leave the MainStream.
 
2:28 am simian:
Cabron seras tu, pendejo. Yo trato de pasar la informacion antes de tiempo, pero Uds. no entienden y creen que todo se soluciona por ser gringo. No hago predicciones y tampoco nunca dije que sabía que paso esa noche.
 
Je ne compris pas quesque tu dire. Que je suis une femme? La vie n’est pas comment tu pense.


translation: You're the bitch, asshole.  I try to pass the information ahead of time, but you do not understand and think that everything is solved, being a foreigner.  I do not make predictions and I never knew what happened that night.

I don't understand what you're saying. You think I'm a woman? Life is not what you think it is.

2:32 am simian:
Shango, you have been pinged. No pone bo mes na liña. E cosnan cu bo a papia awe por haci’bo dolor mañan. Cera bo boca y no papia di loke bo no sa. Bai drumi, paso ta laat.

Hopi hende ta lesa loke bo ta skibi. Nan lanta na porta di bo cas mañan, no spanta.


translation: Shango, get real, do not place yourself at the center. The things you say today can cause sorrow tomorrow. Close your mouth and do not talk of things you know nothing about. Go to sleep, it is late.

Many people are reading the things you are writing. They arrive/appear at the door of your house tomorrow, not spanta.

2:38 am Chimes:
The Simian and authentic others speak the language of Idiom:

A speech form or an expression of a given language that is peculiar to itself grammatically or cannot be understood from the individual meanings of its elements, as in keep tabs on.

2:45 am shango:
Shango finds it very humorous (and quite fitting) that a frenchman would assume the monniker of a Primate.

2:50 am simian:
As opposed to? Crack a book some time…

2:50 am shango:
The babylonian and the shivas did not build castles in the sand
they lost to the lions
dirty hand knows
the elder knows
and so do the arawaks
the cowboys are far from the house of babylon
the maze shall remain dark to all but the arawak nation and the elders

2:53 am simian:
Shango, whenever you think you can get on the inside of the real Aruban society give me a sign, you probably were picking up the trash.

You have been pinged. Bai drumi! Ta laat caba.


translation: Go to sleep! It is late.

2:59 am shango:
The Simian Doppleganger is upset because the arawak nation is hiding the truth from the cowboys

DirtyHand knows
Simian knows
The Simian stated for 2 days, the key would come from the hague the next day
Shango said no two times
Is Simian a DirtyHand too
Has the Simian played with the lions
in the houses of ill-repute and poison notes
where the innocent flies are lured?
Has the Simian, primate that he is, fed with the other animals?
Back ye fetid mongrel, as the 46th are you; delegate of the 7th level of inferno,
not birthed, but spewed from the dark chasm of a nightmare!

3:02 am simian:
Yo solo trato de pasar informacion antes de que se presente en las noticias. Primero, porque no se dicen las como se deben en Fox News o en CNN.

Sinembargo me encuentro ahora con un idiota que se cree hacer predicciones de cosas que no sabe. Alavez, claramente yo tampoco por no haber estado alli. Una vez mas yo solo paso informacion que tengo de gente que estan conectados en la sociedad Arubana.

Estoy muy disgustado hoy de leer como esta idiota que se hace llamar Shango esta jugando con los sentimientos de estos gringos y alavez Nancy Grace hablar de situaciones que ella ni siquiera entiende.


translation: I just try to pass information before it is presented in the news. First, because they do not say as they must in Fox News or Cnn. [more like: Mainly, because they do not report it as they should on Fox/CNN]

However now I encounter an idiot/am seen as an idiot to make/be making predictions of things we do not know. At the same time, clearly, I don't know, not having been there. Once again I only pass information I have from people who are connected in Aruban society.

I am very upset to read today as this idiot calling itself Shango is playing with the feelings of these gringos and at the same time Nancy Grace talks about situations that she does not even understand.

3:06 am shango:
Information the Simian left for 2 days was incorrect

His lordship brought nothing from the Hague

the simian listens to whisperings of the arawak tongue foolishly thinking he is an insider.

3:10 am simian:
Shango cannot understand PAPIAMENTO, otheriwse he would have already taken notice that he has been pinged.
 
If you really know more, you should spent the 8 days in jail eating peanut butter on stale bread with some cold tea. Just like Steve Croes.

3:37 am Chimes:
if indeed you receive and you transmit info before that arrives at the news, she can make all the predictions that she wants, but the intelligent people who believe in facts and nonmisticismo, do not put much attention to him (although she entertains.) Papiamento 101.


Tues June 28 the day following the quarry search.
posters kept asking each other "where is sim, where is shango?"

8:02 am jacqueline:
Did anyone see interview Greta did with the fellow who is helping with the search in the quarry? He too, had lost a child and authorities did not find her body until a year later. Anyway he commented something to the effect that yes, they may have hit something big and need to do more searching. This is the closest affirmation I have heard on news that they may indeed have found NH or perhaps someone else.

10:17 am simian:
hello news from the seas will rise today


has simian now been told that the body is in the ocean?

11:14 am Lucy:
*******
According to what has been said, he is not Colombian, he is from Aruba, but has connections with the Colombians. He is supposed to be filmed on the Holiday Inn’s video of the kaseeno. But, he supposedly has an “air tight alibi”, because a group of friends stated that he was at home with them.

This guy is from an area called Savaneta and is called Lorenzo.

12:00 pm Concerned:
What happened to the Diario correspondent who was following a vessel trying to remove a “group” from Aruba to the mainland? He called into Fox live. His name was Hubert, I believe. His name is on the Diario’s website.

12:11 pm Concerned:
As I was saying @ 1195-
What happened to the Diario correspondent who was following a vessel trying to remove a “group” from Aruba to the mainland? He called into Fox live. His name was Hubert, I believe. His name is on the Diario’s website.

Any ideas??

12:31 pm Concerned:
Does anyone know what is going on with the Diario reporter (Hubert?) who was following a group trying to get off Aruba to S. America? He called into FOX live last week? After that live phone call, nothing was mentioned again. I checked Diario’s site and his name was credible.

1:16 pm big pappy:
Last night Shango talked of finding natalee only if the cowboys refuse the peace pipe. Some of us took this to mean “refuse to just accept the body” when it’s found and stay to continue probing to get to the bottom of who actually did it. I’m wondering now if it does not mean some type of deal or plea bargain or something. Also mention that the “cowboys would smile” with their “backs to the maze” where all the crazy stuff went down. Makes it seem that the team will find what they are looking for, but if they don’t stay and push, we won’t ever know where the crime happened or what happened.

1:20 pm big pappy:
Larry, could be, but I thought both were mentioned in the post. I wanted to take all of Shangos stuff and get it in one document to review but needed to sleep!

1:31 pm simian:
Tides are high

1:33 pm kris:
Simian–
What’s going on?

1:34 pm checkme:
gttg. ltr.

1:34 pm Lucy:
Simian
Eres tu de verdad?

1:35 pm checkme
Hey, Lucy, on my way out. You OK?

1:37 pm kris:
I’m outa here guys–Talk to ya later

Thanks for the bud light MOM.

Be kind

1:38 pm Lucy:
Yes, and you? See you tonight or later.

1:39 pm Larry:
Papa—
The Arawaks will not enter the maze unless the cowboys refuse the peace pipe
Follow the music,
the lions are not tame
DirtyHand knows,
so does the elder

1:41 pm checkme:
Lucy, we will talk tonite.

Good to read you Kristin. I am happy the local system showed not to cover anything up.

1:42 pm kristen:
checkme,
why did simian say they found her body?

1:44 pm checkme:
Simian does not always say the Truth. The double makes it harder to read him sometimes.

1:48 pm MOMfromMO:
Checkme:
I find most everything Sim says, hard to swallow. I respect that many on here, thinks he preaches the ‘gospel’, but I’m not a very naive person. Open-minded, yes.

But you’re right. The “double” makes it more difficult.

1:51 pm Lucy:
Simian also gets a little paranoid, about his identity being compromised. But the Simian now here is not the real one, because Simian #1 knows Spanish and this one doesn’t.

2:17 pm KatCAll:
Where is Yliana, Simian and Checkme? We need you!

2:19 pm Lucy:
Yliana is probably sleeping. She was on until the early hours and then on again in the morning.

Simian is protecting his identity.

Checkme checked-in a while back, Said goodbye until tonight.

9:23 pm AnnaMaria:
Thanks, Lucy, re: Simian and faux-Simian. But it wasn’t him, actually. It was someone who posted on the SM forum about Lorenzo when he was questioned and released— said Lorenzo hosted many parties afterhours because one of his houses was off the beaten path where the cops usually couldn’t hear the music from the road. . .

You know, Ruben T. is in one of those pictures at the Aruban after party at the rave site. Maybe that’s nomal Aruba stuff - but if it was any official in the US, he’d be splashed all over the Enquirer the following week.

10:36 pm dcburgh:
that aruban lawyer was pretty hot

10:37 pm scaredshitless:
That Arlene lawyer from Aruba is strikingly beautiful. But that Marianne Croes person is a nerdy yuck……

10:38 pm checkme:
People, I must leave you… Still have to do some things in the house… very sorry. Hope to cu tmrw. Amor i Luz

10:39 pm checkme:
Arlene is cool. Maintain respect, I know her very well.

10:41 pm newgirl:
Oh no, Checkme, don’t go! I’m sad. I wanted to ask more about what you meant by this: There are few people who fall outside a family-social-control circle here in Aruba. LvR is one of them.

10:48 pm checkme:
new girl, you know, small society, extended families, no secrets, family knows everything. this guy has a bad profile, father into drugs, himself dealing, driving expensive cars, crashing them, not working, father killing himself because of a drug/alcohol induced depression. in short, no solid upbringing, wrong connections, careless, living above the law. somehow not getting caught. Bad boy waiting on the wall to hit him?
That’s what I meant.

10:50 pm new girl:
Wow, checkme. The guy sounds like trouble. Where’s LvR’s mother? Is she out of the picture?

10:52 pm checkme:
His mom is totally out of it.




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: finngirl on June 25, 2008, 06:48:34 AM
"I took the camera to Freddy’s house.
We delivered the camera to Freddy, and afterwards all four of us ate Chinese in the area of Freddy’s house. Freddy also lives in Montanja."
(Satish Kalpoe Suspect Statement June 24, 2005.)

Zedan Arambatzis – age 21 in 2005
Joran met Freddy Zedan Arambatzis when Freddy was 19, they met during a tournament at the racquetball club. (source:p. 1 Jorans book)
Freddy is a light colored latino from Venezuela that only spoke papi. (source: p. 1 Joran's book)
Freddy's English sucked (source p. 5 Joran's book)
I am the best friend and neighbor of Joran. We got to know each other about two years ago.(source: June 12 Freddy's statement as written in Joran's book)
Freddy lives behind Joran. (D-6/11)

19 Montanja Joran van der Sloot
232 Montanja Jaime Carrasquilla
7A Catiri Freddy Zedan Arambatziz

I have been thinking about Freddy, the light skinned Latino, from Venezuela, that only spoke Pap, while working on the Arambatzis post!

If Joran is speaking the truth, for once, his 'Freddy' is probably Aruban. But if Freddy Zedan was Venezuela he probably didn't speak Pap!

The Language
Spanish is the main language of Venezuela. However, Venezuelan Spanish differs in pronounciation from the Spanish spoken in Spain. There are also some variations in vocabulary. Venezuelans call their language castellano.

Arubagirl couldn't find 'Freddy's' house when he was arrested in August of 2005, Caps couldn't find 'Freddy's' house in 2008.

so what happened to Freddy's Montanja 39-F addy ...
listed in the buki di during august 2005?

sometimes I feel like someone has re-arranged the furniture
while I was sleeping and I wake up/head for the light switch
and stumble into something that wasn't in the way last night

we had real estate/for sale photos at one time
showing the Montanja townhouses numbered 39A thru G or H

couldn't find/didn't want to find: two different things

 :roll:



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 25, 2008, 07:21:58 AM
Finn...

Quote Finn….
if sim was somehow tied to Steve Croes,
perhaps posts were used to slant suspicion away from him
and suggest that he was dragged into something

sim very/very seldom mentions Steve
and appears sympathetic when mention is made ...
while beating fairly hard/steady on the Lorenzo/? Drum



I believe they were cousins…

Simian/Mirian pointed to Freddy to protect Steve



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 25, 2008, 07:38:31 AM
Freddy, Freddy, Freddy...I think the Montanja address was more his mother's address than his.  Kermit keeps leading us to the Catiri address anytime we venture to the Montanja address.  I may not have very good instincts about Shango but Kermit is usually right on target when he says something.  Freddy was supposed to be at Joran's that night.  The only reason he would have been there was to make a video.  Freddy was way too old to be having a sleepover with Joran...unless sleeping with someone was involved. JMO

Right Mum!

Simian protects Steve.
Shango protects Freddy.
Now put it together and you have your answers. Albeit, that involves a whole host of other people down the line.  :roll:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 25, 2008, 08:06:40 AM
"I took the camera to Freddy’s house.
We delivered the camera to Freddy, and afterwards all four of us ate Chinese in the area of Freddy’s house. Freddy also lives in Montanja."
(Satish Kalpoe Suspect Statement June 24, 2005.)

Zedan Arambatzis – age 21 in 2005
Joran met Freddy Zedan Arambatzis when Freddy was 19, they met during a tournament at the racquetball club. (source:p. 1 Jorans book)
Freddy is a light colored latino from Venezuela that only spoke papi. (source: p. 1 Joran's book)
Freddy's English sucked (source p. 5 Joran's book)
I am the best friend and neighbor of Joran. We got to know each other about two years ago.(source: June 12 Freddy's statement as written in Joran's book)
Freddy lives behind Joran. (D-6/11)

19 Montanja Joran van der Sloot
232 Montanja Jaime Carrasquilla
7A Catiri Freddy Zedan Arambatziz

I have been thinking about Freddy, the light skinned Latino, from Venezuela, that only spoke Pap, while working on the Arambatzis post!

If Joran is speaking the truth, for once, his 'Freddy' is probably Aruban. But if Freddy Zedan was Venezuela he probably didn't speak Pap!

The Language
Spanish is the main language of Venezuela. However, Venezuelan Spanish differs in pronounciation from the Spanish spoken in Spain. There are also some variations in vocabulary. Venezuelans call their language castellano.

Arubagirl couldn't find 'Freddy's' house when he was arrested in August of 2005, Caps couldn't find 'Freddy's' house in 2008.

so what happened to Freddy's Montanja 39-F addy ...
listed in the buki di during august 2005?

sometimes I feel like someone has re-arranged the furniture
while I was sleeping and I wake up/head for the light switch
and stumble into something that wasn't in the way last night

we had real estate/for sale photos at one time
showing the Montanja townhouses numbered 39A thru G or H

couldn't find/didn't want to find: two different things

 :roll:




Hi Finn….Any info on the address would be appreciated….TIA

Freddy Alexander Zedan-Arambatzis  aka Arends

For Lilian to have retained the Arambatzis once she married Mr Rodriguez, I would think it was her maiden name. She was listed as Dutch in the Chamber records for 2004 – this means she was either born in Holland or is Aruban, thus considered Dutch.

From research, the only Arambatzis found connected to Venezuela – Robby and Mayra Smalley. From Aruba – Lilian and Robby. (doing some more checking on this Robby to see if he is possibly the Robby from Venezuela). Caps’ database from Aruba, Zedan=0…Arambatzis=2

It appears the Arambatzis is a Greek name, and Mayra lived in Venezuela, daughter of a Greek father and a Dutch mother. Mayra is listed as white, and if in fact she is Ernesto’s mother, he may have been born out of wedlock in Venezuela, thus his being listed as Hispanic/Latino…Unless we can come up with another Arambatzis family in Venezuela, or a connection through the names below, neither Lilian or Freddy ‘fit’! (Minor point…I have not found that Pap is spoken in Venezuela, therefore the statement that Freddy is a light skinned Latino that only speaks Pap, is not possible if he is from Venezuela. Spanish is spoken there.)

Possible connections remaining between Freddy and Ernesto…IMO

ARAMBATZIS-RODRIGUEZ ALBERT, LILIAN REGINA

ARAMBATZIS PEREZ ROBBY GERARDUS – 51 years old-Venezuela

Arambatzis,Perez Bradenton, FL ... This is a listed address for Ernesto

Lilian Zedan – Los Angeles

Zedan – Florida

Rodriguez – through Sasha

Ramirez – may have a Venezuelan link to Ernesto

Prada...still looking


Link to research on the Arambatzis name…I would love for some-one to tie Freddy in with Ernesto, but with the info we had, weren't able to connect those dots!

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2973.0



       




         


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 25, 2008, 08:07:33 AM
Bablyon and casinos go together.  If you operate from the premise that Shango is mainly written to expose the entire gambling, drugs, porn situation on Aruba and how it connects to this case, the pieces will fall into place.  Shango was a response to Simian's information.  Simian and Checkme and even Shockthemonkey were giving out info that only leaks or those close to the investigation could have known.  As Finn girl has so astutely pointed out in context. The conversations of Shango were to get the FP posters attention away from the Simian/Checkme posts.  It is interesting when you read them to see that inkling of jealousy between them. 

For example:

Simian is hearing that J2k is implicating Steve Croes as being involved in this and Steve is part of your family...do you sit by and let it happen or do you try to tell someone that they shouldn't just look at your relatives but they should take a look at a person that was involved and has done this for a long time? So Simian says, "Hey, there is another person here and it is not my cousin/friend/family.  This is the person that can tell you what happened. He was at Joran's that night...he makes all the videos on the island or he makes the videos for another big player in this game.  I won't tolerate the PTB placing all the blame on my family/friend/cousin this time."

Then Shango watches this for a while and thinks, "Oops!  They are going to hang this on my brother/cousin/family now, because this Simian guy is telling them about what the ALE is thinking."  Shango knows there is a bigger picture and he wants the FP posters to see it too.  So Shango drops in and begins his diatribe on elders and Babylon.  He tells us about how this group has a scheme going that involves the casinos and powerful people on the island.  All the FP posters get intriqued and begin asking for Shango to update them and not Simian...voila!  No one is thinking about that 5th suspect any longer, they are chasing their tails trying figure out who dirty hand is.

Mission accomplished....everyone is confused and all are happy...for a while.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 25, 2008, 08:13:29 AM
Freddy, Freddy, Freddy...I think the Montanja address was more his mother's address than his.  Kermit keeps leading us to the Catiri address anytime we venture to the Montanja address.  I may not have very good instincts about Shango but Kermit is usually right on target when he says something.  Freddy was supposed to be at Joran's that night.  The only reason he would have been there was to make a video.  Freddy was way too old to be having a sleepover with Joran...unless sleeping with someone was involved. JMO

Right Mum!

Simian protects Steve.
Shango protects Freddy.
Now put it together and you have your answers. Albeit, that involves a whole host of other people down the line.  :roll:


Good Morning! I agree, I don't think the riddle could be as complicated as it is being made out to be....they were posting on the FP....

Just because I am a Shango dummy, doesn't mean everyone else is...LOL

So Armin is protecting cousin Steve...who would want to protect Freddy?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 25, 2008, 08:14:10 AM
Mum
Email me! LOL  I don't know which one works for you today.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 25, 2008, 08:23:26 AM
Freddy, Freddy, Freddy...I think the Montanja address was more his mother's address than his.  Kermit keeps leading us to the Catiri address anytime we venture to the Montanja address.  I may not have very good instincts about Shango but Kermit is usually right on target when he says something.  Freddy was supposed to be at Joran's that night.  The only reason he would have been there was to make a video.  Freddy was way too old to be having a sleepover with Joran...unless sleeping with someone was involved. JMO

Right Mum!

Simian protects Steve.
Shango protects Freddy.
Now put it together and you have your answers. Albeit, that involves a whole host of other people down the line.  :roll:


Good Morning! I agree, I don't think the riddle could be as complicated as it is being made out to be....they were posting on the FP....

Just because I am a Shango dummy, doesn't mean everyone else is...LOL

So Armin is protecting cousin Steve...who would want to protect Freddy?

If Freddy was this 5th suspect, then I would say it could be a family member.  If Shango wanted to show Simian that he isn't going to hang this on Freddy, he might tell just enough that Simian would realize that this Shango knows the details and that coming out  could jeopardize more than just Steve.  Maybe Shango was a warning that if you implicate this 5th person I will take everyone down because I know what happened and I know who is involved.  Now, this does not necessarily mean that Shango was related to the 5th suspect, he just looked at the possibilities and didn't like what he saw.  Another, possibility is Shango was relating what he was being told by someone and all Shango did was post it and did not write it.  That would mean Shango had no idea what the details were, just posted what he was told.  That opens a whole other can of worms.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 25, 2008, 08:24:37 AM
Thanks Finn for your post...I haven't read it all...but will get back to it later...

Still looking for the revelation that Ernesto was Freddy's brother...

SandraK...cuz - Lissette in the US...aunt, Rebeca in Venezeula

LOL...Obviously not the one that I tried to send when I saw you were up!!!



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on June 25, 2008, 08:28:24 AM
ARAWAK (ARUBA) AND BABYLONIAN (CASINO) INVOLVEMENT:  Arawaks don't like Babylonian involvement...

8:28 AM the grey whisper said...
Simian and Koko are just as their handles imply- low level primates making noise to distract... the real players at this masquerade ball are smarter, but less deft of foot than they may believe.  Are the sentries really asleep at the watchtower? The figure at this ball may turn lead to gold, but he's no prince charming



Google DUTCHCO ARUBA . It is an investment company OWNED BY THE GOVERNMENT OF ARUBA.
Google GLOBAL CASINOS INC. (GLOBAL ENTERTAINMENT IND?) Find directors, board members, etc.
Google Aruba Suriname Casino and Colombia Casino.

DUTCHCO:
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_hb6634/is_200310/ai_n26492715
Carlson buys resort.(ARUBA)(Carlson Hotels Worldwide)(Radisson Aruba Resort & Casino)(Brief Article)
Caribbean Update,  October, 2003

Carlson Hotels Worldwide, parent company of Radisson Hotels & Resorts, on Aug. 18 announced it has acquired full ownership of the company-managed Radisson Aruba Resort & Casino from its investment partner Dutchco, a company owned by the Government of Aruba. Together, the partners completed a two-year US$55 million transformation of the island's ...http://www.allbusiness.com/travel-hospitality-tourism/destinations/6919704-1.html

Global Casinos Inc. Announces Major Casino Expansionin the Radisson Hotel in Aruba.
Publication: Business Wire
Date: Monday, April 27 1998

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COLORADO SPRINGS, Colo.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--April 27, 1998--Global Casinos, Inc. (NASDAQ: GBCS) announced today that it has reached an agreement with representatives of the government of Aruba and Dutchco, the hotel's owner, for a new 20 year casino lease in the Radisson Hotel in Aruba.



http://www.secinfo.com/duRaw.69.htm


   (a)  On December 23, 1998, Global Casinos, Inc. (the "Company") completed
the disposition of two separate business operations.                           
      Effective December 23, 1998, the Company completed the disposition
of its discontinued casino operations on the island of Aruba. The Company had  previously announced that the Casino Masquerade  located in the Radisson Aruba Carribean Hotel on the island of Aruba had been closed effective February 28,  1998 in order to undergo renovations. Due to protracted delays in completing   the renovations and other adverse business circumstances, the Company was able  to negotiate an early termination of the remaining term on its casino lease.   
     Under the terms of the Settlement Agreement with Dutchco N.V., an Aruban limited liability company, and Aruba Carribean Hotel Limited Partnership, as landlord, the Company agreed to terminate the lease in consideration of a cash payment in the amount of $400,000 and the issuance to the Company of trade credits having an aggregate face value of $600,000.
   The trade credits can be used at the Aruba Carribean Hotel (the "Hotel") for a six year period beginning January 1, 2000 and ending December 31, 2005, usable at the rate of $100,000 per year.  The Hotel credits can be used against room rates as well as food and beverage charges, subject to certain limitations.                                                           


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 25, 2008, 08:57:34 AM
Found this in the Natalee thread and saw so many possibilities in it I brought it over.  Simian's 5th suspect....Colombo's choice...Paulus.  This would be the alibi, so tight, so tight.  If you are on video as being in the casino until 4 in the morning, you can not possibly be out killing and disappearing Natalee.  The important thing would be to know how many times Paulus had to answer his cell phone while sitting there  in the casino and if his other two kids were indeed at home, who was looking out for them?  If the ALE knew this alibi was Paulus' and it concerned the casino, why even arrest Paulus?  With an alibi like that an arrest is futile.  It opens more questions with little answers but is interesting anyway.

Buckeye
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #760 6/22
« Reply #625 on: Today at 06:00:53 AM »
   Reply with quoteQuote
Have to go, but this was posted by Jonathan45 at BFN, yesterday.

For me this Guido scenario belongs to the greyzone of Joran's beachlie. It is an important scenario which Fierljepper introduced here. Was Guido Joran's helping hand the night Natalee vanished ?
In my own bike scenario I dislike to enter the greyzone, but I had to and have to because of the possible connections in making this case a no body no case one.
I reject Guido's role as Joran's  helping hand in disposing off Natalees body. Why would Joran behave like he does now for more than 3 years when they both know that her body never can be found ?
For me Guido is in this case involved because of Paulus alibi that night. Paulus wasn't asleep, but playing in the casino till around 4.00am that night, when a neigbour [witness] saw his car coming home. Did Paulus payed Guido to silence his lips about Paulus' where abouts that night ? And did Joran knows about this deal between Guido and his dad ? Yes he does from day 1. Joran can blackmail his dad and he did make Guido a suspect.
Paulus is also a great liar. Does Anita knows about Paulus nightly [for the first time] casino visit ?
Guido knows it, that's for sure and Anita wasn't on the island when it all occured.


Does anyone remember this?  I do remember something about the car returning.  Back later.  TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 25, 2008, 09:13:53 AM
Found this in the Natalee thread and saw so many possibilities in it I brought it over.  Simian's 5th suspect....Colombo's choice...Paulus.  This would be the alibi, so tight, so tight.  If you are on video as being in the casino until 4 in the morning, you can not possibly be out killing and disappearing Natalee.  The important thing would be to know how many times Paulus had to answer his cell phone while sitting there  in the casino and if his other two kids were indeed at home, who was looking out for them?  If the ALE knew this alibi was Paulus' and it concerned the casino, why even arrest Paulus?  With an alibi like that an arrest is futile.  It opens more questions with little answers but is interesting anyway.

Buckeye
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #760 6/22
« Reply #625 on: Today at 06:00:53 AM »
   Reply with quoteQuote
Have to go, but this was posted by Jonathan45 at BFN, yesterday.

For me this Guido scenario belongs to the greyzone of Joran's beachlie. It is an important scenario which Fierljepper introduced here. Was Guido Joran's helping hand the night Natalee vanished ?
In my own bike scenario I dislike to enter the greyzone, but I had to and have to because of the possible connections in making this case a no body no case one.
I reject Guido's role as Joran's  helping hand in disposing off Natalees body. Why would Joran behave like he does now for more than 3 years when they both know that her body never can be found ?
For me Guido is in this case involved because of Paulus alibi that night. Paulus wasn't asleep, but playing in the casino till around 4.00am that night, when a neigbour [witness] saw his car coming home. Did Paulus payed Guido to silence his lips about Paulus' where abouts that night ? And did Joran knows about this deal between Guido and his dad ? Yes he does from day 1. Joran can blackmail his dad and he did make Guido a suspect.
Paulus is also a great liar. Does Anita knows about Paulus nightly [for the first time] casino visit ?
Guido knows it, that's for sure and Anita wasn't on the island when it all occured.


Does anyone remember this?  I do remember something about the car returning.  Back later.  TIA



IIRC it was reported that Paulus was arrested to make Joran spill everything. I think this came from Rudy Croes! Well Joran refused to talk on 6/24 and came back later with all about his sex life that ALE was interested in...what could have happened to lead to those conversations from ALE?

And what about...'Who said the alibi played for the Sloots?' How does that fit? And 'If you were sleeping, who answered your phone at 2 in the morning?' Does this have anything to do with Paulus having Anita's phone? Did Paulus loose his that night? Was it the one found at the lighthouse, that Anita said was Val's. If Val was in the Netherlands, did some-one else have Val's phone?  Sorry the phones are like the shoes at times...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Blonde on June 25, 2008, 10:04:09 AM

Who is DirtyHand? Someone in the mob or a terrorist.  Someone we all thought was deceased now alive and well, hiding on a small island in a house 'by the haystack' and comes from Santa Marta. Well, now he's a broken man, and went back to Babylon. Is Babylon Iraq or is it Netherlands? 

Poochy, we really need to know if Carlos Ledher is alive or dead.

Rob this guy  Carlos Lehder - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Blonde on June 25, 2008, 10:05:46 AM
Sorry here's the link  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlos_Lehder


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Pita on June 25, 2008, 10:17:25 AM
Carlos Lehder Myspace

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=203777444


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 25, 2008, 10:23:42 AM

Who is DirtyHand? Someone in the mob or a terrorist.  Someone we all thought was deceased now alive and well, hiding on a small island in a house 'by the haystack' and comes from Santa Marta. Well, now he's a broken man, and went back to Babylon. Is Babylon Iraq or is it Netherlands? 

Poochy, we really need to know if Carlos Ledher is alive or dead.

Rob this guy  Carlos Lehder - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Not sure that I agree with the interpretation of once dead...now alive, but if I did, I again think of Judge Kuiperdal, he was a Judge on Aruba, and for some reason the Judges were brought in from Curacao. We know it wasn't for impartiality...maybe Judge Kuiperdal would have been exposed if it stayed with the Aruban judges.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 25, 2008, 05:27:49 PM

Who is DirtyHand? Someone in the mob or a terrorist.  Someone we all thought was deceased now alive and well, hiding on a small island in a house 'by the haystack' and comes from Santa Marta. Well, now he's a broken man, and went back to Babylon. Is Babylon Iraq or is it Netherlands? 

Poochy, we really need to know if Carlos Ledher is alive or dead.

Rob this guy  Carlos Lehder - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Not sure that I agree with the interpretation of once dead...now alive, but if I did, I again think of Judge Kuiperdal, he was a Judge on Aruba, and for some reason the Judges were brought in from Curacao. We know it wasn't for impartiality...maybe Judge Kuiperdal would have been exposed if it stayed with the Aruban judges.



Is Judge Kuiperdal the one with the light hair in the sunglasses and sport coat?  I like your thoughts about Freddy speaking Pap and not being from Venezuela.  I have mentioned several times the posssiblity of Arambatzis being a maiden name.  Freddy and Ernesto don't look very much alike and they could easily have different fathers, neither of whom their mother was married to.  I considered this when we talked about the expense of Ernesto's private school education in Florida and Freddy's education in the local high school.  Who paid for Ernesto's education?  Was it a paternity obligation?  Ernesto's MySpace also says that he's a college graduate.  Where?  Who are the fathers of these two?  This could throw a very important piece into the coverup motivations and the obvious protection of Freddy.  Do we have a connection on the island who could check the high school yearbooks for Freddy's picture and the name that he was using at that time?  Freddy looks more like Karen Martina than he looks like Ernesto, and we can't find Karen either.  Does anyone have a picture of Freddy's "sister"?  There are several grils named Gish on MySpace and I don't know which one she is.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: vms on June 25, 2008, 05:45:34 PM
Karen:

http://www.myspace.com/karenmartina


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 25, 2008, 05:49:09 PM
This afternoon, I was playing with the June 26th and 27th Shango/Simian posts and I broke them down into very plain English with some of the information that we have.  Feel free to add to it any thoughts that anyone might have.  When it's all broken down, it really isn't very cryptic or difficult to understand.  I don't know who His Lordship is.

Sat June 25
7:59 pm simian:
The media flashed the news. Even Jan van der Straaten denied he knew. The smoke will clear soon. Paulus can’t deny. Joran can’t talk.

2:58 pm simian:
Steve Croes’  statement was not part of the plan 
3:09 pm shango:
Armin, who else plays in the orchestra? A Babylonian…. =
"I'm here and I know as much as you do, perhaps more ...
please enlighten our readers" (this sounds like someone in the news or broadcast business)
3:18 pm simian:
The alibi needs to be broken. Chemaly, Renfro, Arendz, Briezen, Joran, Satish, Deepak, Guido, Steve Croes, Freddy, Paulus, LVR, etc.   need to be pressured. They have seen from the corners of their eyes. Matty Apts. was dusted.
3:18 pm shango:
Armin, why was the video from the Matty Apts. not used to open the Sumerians Door?
3:26 pm shango:
Armin, his lordship did not bring the expected video, the door never existed.
3:30 pm shango:
Armin, his lordship did not bring the video for the Arubans.
3:33 pm shango:
Armin, His Lordship did not bring the video/DNA found in the car, it did not exist.
3:40 pm shango:
The video/DNA does not exist .
4:04 pm simian:
The wire has been shaken. The potential singing tattle-tale (Paulus) has left.
4:12 pm shango:
The video of truth did not exist. The response has already begun.
4:50 pm shango:
We must have a sacrifice - Joran. Hide Deutekom. Spread some infromation!
4:55 pm shango:
If the Americans see Deutekom, many homes/families will fall. Casinos will fall. We must have a sacrifice to feed the Americans. They will go back to the USA without Natalee.
4:58 pm shango:
Halls of the casinos may suddenly twist to accomodate Americans walking in the web of deceit.
No Natalee, but many answers. Better twisted hallways than fallen houses.
5:02 pm shango:
Do not listen to American women (Greta, Grace?) who cast shadows on the walls of doubt…. There will be a sacrifice. The Americans will be happy. The casino businesses won’t fall and destroy the Aruban families. There will be a sacrifice. Soon many will see false information. Americans will go back to the USA. But first we need the sacrifice.
5:04 pm shango:
Prepare the news flashes. We need a sacrifice. A well-to-do casino-related person. Young Joran van der Sloot.
6:30 pm shango:
Shango is not a Simian Doppleganger and has his own messengers.
8:04 pm shango:
Joran van der Sloot shall be the sacrifice for the Arubans and the Americans. All will sit around the news broadcasts and feast on Joran van der Sloot. The powers that be are talking. Dueterkom is alive and well.
9:27 pm simian:
Paulus had to come clean. He knows what damage he had caused.
Armin said to not shake the wire, 'cause the bird would fly away. Armin  would never pose. 
9:30 pm shango:
Who knows what story Paulus will tell.
9:32 pm shango:
His lordship is there to preserve the Casino culture, not Paulus. Remember Deutekom
9:34 pm shango:
The struggle between the casino culture and the Arubans still remains hidden. The Arubans awaited the video/DNA.
His lordship said no. The door to truth remains closed. They are preparing the news flashes.
9:36 pm simian:
Everything the gamblers knew was also on the casino surveillance videos. They knew the girl. She spent her nights playing at their tables.
9:43 pm shango:
Did the casino people like to make movies? From the tears, a new river will spring forth…. 
9:48 pm simian:
Joran told the Kalpoes that he didn’t need their help anymore. This was very early in the morning. The confrontation was brutal. So who came when he called on the phone? Who switched placesand sent him home? (Paulus or LVR?) People…He bit his tongue instead of talking. The boy’s fear runs deep. They accuse him to be Bifrons.
10:24 pm simian:
The boy is not strong. He is too afraid of the consequences. He doesn’t want to be made a cafone.
The third act needs to be played and the Americans will be heroes. This is all a “lugubrious game” to them.
They were all at the Matty Apts. and all of them are turning their heads. One of them needs to be pinched/pressured.
10:26 pm simian:
Armin only speaks for himself.
10:56 pm shango:
Armin knows his Lordship did not have a video/DNA to open the door to truth.
10:59 pm simian:
The package is still due.
11:01 pm simian:
If the door to truth is to be opened with that video or evidence, it will be tomorrow or forever remained closed.
11:05 pm shango:
Deutekom has worked for the powerful people for a long time
11:09 pm simian:
Mito Croes is on the line. The casino people know what happened, but their hands are tied.
They do not run the legal system. Van der Straaten will never bring the evidence from the Hague. The trias works infallibly.
The party goers (above) need to be pinched, but no one wants to be the cafone. Including Joran. Too much is at stake and he is not strong.
He is biting his tongue so he won’t be able to speak. So afraid he is. 
11:12 pm shango:
Even released suspects talk. If the video or DNA evidence does not arrive tomorrow, that door to truth will remain closed.
11:19 pm simian:
The Simian asks that his words not be confused with anyone else’s.
11:23 pm simian:
Who took Joran to the party? Who took him home? Therein lies the third act. Look up the Simian’s posts from days ago. 
11:37 pm simian:
How can so many gamblers be wrong about the girl? This is unbelievable. The casino owners need to pinch the participants. That will need to happen tomorrow. The Simian is leaving.
12:39 am simian:
Watch tomorrow, but do not speak, and it will all unfold before you.
12:54 am simian:
I am leaving. I am done.
12:30 am Babalu:
ConcernedUK, no, I guess he is head of some local official corps. He is the guy that knows everything and that has been in the house of Babylonians NOT seeking pleasure for himself, so Shango says.So maybe he went to search for Natalee and he is the chief of Polis.     (The last part of this statement looks like a hypothetical phrase.  I think Shango later refers to the beginning of this sentence)
4:00 am shango:
Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon with his 12:30 posting.
9:13 am simian:
Lack of evidence is not proof of innocence. The Americans are looking everywhere, but the land and waters are hard to search. The casino owners need to keep an eye on the Americans. The process must be protected. The partiers need to be pinched.
10:51 am simian:
The casino people and the Americans have swarmed the ponds. The dead dogs are stinking.
10:59 am simian:
The American’ steel and wires are screaming. The pond is large, deep and too wide, but they are sure there is something on their computer/scan screen. The casino people will be proven right. All along they were right. The story given by the gamblers might check out after all.
11:14 am simian:
The road from the boy’s home leads to the Manserat Pond. Look for Noord and look for Moko. The Americans are close. They are not real fast, they will creep by the inch. It’s deep and wide. The powerful casino owners need this, before time runs out
11:33 am simian:
Find Aruba. Look for Noord. Look for Montaña. Look for Moko. Let your fingers connect the dots.
The Americans are deeper into the water recovery. The vultures are hanging around and are ready to eat what the Americans will find. Hang on to your TVs. The Simian doesn’t want to be right because this will be awful.
11:37 am simian:
Her decapitated body to be found. Her head to wash up on shore later.
11:39 am simian:
Why does anyone want to be the Simian’s double. The Simian finds that to be counter productive.
11:46 am simian:
I have not left. I do not want to be copied however and would like to stay and speak.
11:58 am simian:
They have found her. Watch your news stations for this one. I said this was to happen. You can praise The Simian later.
12:08 pm simian: 
THEY FOUND HER BODY!!
12:11 pm
he said to keep watching the news, and that he apologizes for the confusion, but he is tired of people trying to impersonate him
 12:12 pm shango:
Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon with his 12:30 AM posting.
If the cowboys do not find Natalee today, it will not be found
12:26 pm shango:
Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon with his 12:30 AM posting.
Simian your immitation is with us
12:28 pm shango:
Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon with his 12:30 AM posting
9:41 pm shango:
 Location of the Matty Apts
One straight path
to the house of Rave,
while of gold bricks
the road is not paved,
answers mysterious lie within
magical letters which spell sin
XTC DNA   
9:44 pm shango:
Babalu opened a window looking into the casino world on his 12:30 A.M. Post. Deutekom is alive
9:46 pm shango:
Shango said the video/DNA/evidence sent to the Hague did not exist
that door to truth remains closed
unless they enter the Matty Apartments
9:48 pm shango:
Babalu knew who dirty hand was at half past 12
10:30 pm drax:
Joran and the Kalpoes weren’t on the beach?
10:32 pm shango:
THE DRAX SCORES
10:45 pm shango:
Windows looking onto the casino world are being opened by the ThreadSurfers. SM?
11:04 pm shango:
Babalu opened a window looking onto Babylon with his 12:30 A.M. post.
11:13 pm shango:
 11:48 pm shango:
The Simian was incorrect about the evidence from the Hague. I told the Simian, but the Simian would not listen.
The simian is not a simian, but a pre-historic man (Neanderthal?)
11:52 pm shango:
Foreign bloggers are oblivious to the underworld parties and the participants. Without exposure, the Arubans will deceive the Americans, they will leave without Natalee.
12:04 am shango:
The heads of the casino culture have told the story for the Aruban press.
The story which holds the answers lies within the underworld parties
the Americans will smile sweetly as the news tells the false story
backs turned to the underworld parties
never hearing a single clue
from the evil reality
12:11 am shango:
All the Arubans know the underworld party where the evil/ecstacy is..
12:14 am shango:
How those innocent young women enter the trap with sweet propositions.
12:23 am shango:
Follow the clues
to the evil place
where the children of the casino culture
and the Arubans
meet secretly.
In the party.
The perpetrators
shall be exposed.
The casinos have video surveillance tapes.
Tell the Americans! 
12:28 am shango:
Not all perpetrators leave their homes.
12:37 am shango:
Yliana and Subdude have both opened windows which look into the heart of babylon
do not stray from your paths
you hold the key in hand  - talking about kids going to wild  parties and raves
12:39 am shango:
The bloggers are opening the door to the casino underworld
be careful of the people there
Deuterkom does not have them under control
but he can enter their turf
tell the Amricans
1:32 am shango:
For the doubters: You do not need to see a grain of sand in your eye to know it is there.  Do you need to see the graft and corruption to know that it is there?
1:43 am simian: 
The Simian has a handicap of 12.
1:52 am simian:
The Simian says that The Simian only reports developments ahead of time. The Simian thinks what is going on is shameless. Playing with feelings.
The Simian’s umbilical is buried close to the heart of the island. NOBODY EVER try to put us down. The Simian hates what he has been reading.
All things must pass.  (Armin is an Aruban. Do not put Aruba down)
1:55 am shango:
Find the music. Only David left the den alive
2:01 am simian:
The Simian is getting out. Knows Shango, knows Shock me, knows Checkme. Do not underestimate the power of the ping (insult?). Shango is a dumb copycat. Maybe the Simian should place a call on you. (call the police) Get you 8 days with a hole to take a dump in. (Jail?) Complementary peanut butter on stale bread for you, you fool. The Simian is angry. Over and out. (sympathy for Steve Cores)
2:09 am simian:
The Simian is disappointed. The Simian repeats himself seldom, but likes to say he only reports ahead of time. The clues were solely to avoid implicating sources. Never to hurt the feeling of the readers.
Seeing how this has been used to mislead people, Armin will again say that he will retire.
2:18 am simian:
f*** the poetry. Armin Solognier is a frenchman. Blue blood if you should know.
2:21 am simian:
The Simian doesn’t make predictions. Only gives the group information ahead of time. Predictions are for fools. This is the Simian.
No me hagan mofa. Estoy molesto por las bobedades de Shango y Shock y Checkme. Se creen, pero no son.
translation: I will not be mocked. I am bothered by the bobedades (?) of Shango and Shock and Checkme.  They [are] believe[d], but should not [be].
2:23 am shango:
?
2:24 am shango:
This Simian is not the Simian. It is a Doppleganger.
2:27 am shango:
Crypticism leads to tributaries of thought  which would not usually leave the MainStream.
2:28 am simian:
Cabron seras tu, pendejo. Yo trato de pasar la informacion antes de tiempo, pero Uds. no entienden y creen que todo se soluciona por ser gringo. No hago predicciones y tampoco nunca dije que sabía que paso esa noche.
Je ne compris pas quesque tu dire. Que je suis une femme? La vie n’est pas comment tu pense.
translation: You're the bitch, asshole.  I try to pass the information ahead of time, but you do not understand and think that everything is solved, being a foreigner.  I do not make predictions and I never knew what happened that night.
I don't understand what you're saying. You think I'm a woman? Life is not what you think it is.
2:32 am simian:
Shango, you have been pinged. No pone bo mes na liña. E cosnan cu bo a papia awe por haci’bo dolor mañan. Cera bo boca y no papia di loke bo no sa. Bai drumi, paso ta laat.
Hopi hende ta lesa loke bo ta skibi. Nan lanta na porta di bo cas mañan, no spanta.
translation: Shango, get real, do not place yourself at the center. The things you say today can cause sorrow tomorrow. Close your mouth and do not talk of things you know nothing about. Go to sleep, it is late.
Many people are reading the things you are writing. They arrive/appear at the door of your house tomorrow, not spanta.
2:45 am shango:
Shango finds it very humorous (and quite fitting) that a frenchman would assume the monniker of a monkey.
2:50 am simian:
As opposed to? Crack a book some time…
2:50 am shango:
Joran and the Kalpoes did not build castles in the sand
they lost to the adults
Deutekom knows
Paulus knows
and so do the Arubans
the Americans are far from the casino culture
the party scene shall remain hidden to all but the Arubans and the adult men
2:53 am simian:
Shango, whenever you think you can get on the inside of the real Aruban society give me a sign, you probably were picking up the trash.
You have been pinged. Bai drumi! Ta laat caba.
translation: Go to sleep! It is late.
2:59 am shango:
The Simian Doppleganger is upset because the Arubans are hiding the truth from the Americans
Deutekom knows
Simian knows
The Simian stated for 2 days, the video/evidence would come from the hague the next day
Shango said no two times
Is Simian a DirtyHand too
Has the Simian played with the adult males
in the houses of prostitution and drugs
where the innocent women are lured?
Has the Simian, primate that he is, fed with the other animals?
Back ye fetid mongrel, as the 46th are you; delegate of the 7th level of inferno,
not birthed, but spewed from the dark chasm of a nightmare!
3:02 am simian:
Yo solo trato de pasar informacion antes de que se presente en las noticias. Primero, porque no se dicen las como se deben en Fox News o en CNN.
Sinembargo me encuentro ahora con un idiota que se cree hacer predicciones de cosas que no sabe. Alavez, claramente yo tampoco por no haber estado alli. Una vez mas yo solo paso informacion que tengo de gente que estan conectados en la sociedad Arubana.
Estoy muy disgustado hoy de leer como esta idiota que se hace llamar Shango esta jugando con los sentimientos de estos gringos y alavez Nancy Grace hablar de situaciones que ella ni siquiera entiende.
translation: I just try to pass information before it is presented in the news. First, because they do not say as they must in Fox News or Cnn. [more like: Mainly, because they do not report it as they should on Fox/CNN]
However now I encounter an idiot/am seen as an idiot to make/be making predictions of things we do not know. At the same time, clearly, I don't know, not having been there. Once again I only pass information I have from people who are connected in Aruban society.
I am very upset to read today as this idiot calling itself Shango is playing with the feelings of these gringos and at the same time Nancy Grace talks about situations that she does not even understand.
3:06 am shango:
Information the Simian left for 2 days was incorrect
His lordship brought nothing from the Hague
the simian listens to whisperings of the Arubans foolishly thinking he is an insider.
3:10 am simian:
Shango cannot understand PAPIAMENTO, otheriwse he would have already taken notice that he has been insulted.
If you really know more, you should spent the 8 days in jail eating peanut butter on stale bread with some cold tea. Just like Steve Croes.
10:17 am simian:
hello news from the seas will rise today
1:31 pm simian:
Tides are high
Simian–
What’s going on?




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: vms on June 25, 2008, 06:25:29 PM
Sorry, SS, I had to reboot...

I think Mum found a "Ghis" that she thought might be the same one.
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a398/vms58/Freddy.jpg)



Sasha in pink.
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a398/vms58/FreddywithSasha.jpg)



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on June 25, 2008, 06:36:47 PM
http://www.ipsn.org/lolli1.html

Acting through his underboss, Rocco Ernest Infelise, head of one of the largest "street crews" in Chicago, Ferriola directed Jahoda to lure 51-year-old Robert Heyden Plummer to the outfit's elegantly appointed "Murder Mansion" in northern Libertyville Township. The secluded Lake County mansion in the woods once belonged to a local millionaire, Bruce Rouse, and his wife, Darlene, until they were brutally murdered in 1980. Their case was never solved. The mob bought up acreage and spent $50,000 converting the former residence into a high stakes casino that employed eighteen full-time people (all "well-fed") to accommodate the gambling high rollers (ROLLERS) and fun- loving clientele who parked their cars in the rear. (lions which "play") Reportedly, the outfit raked in $400,000 for just fifteen nights of casino gambling (gold bricks). According to Jahoda, political protection was supplied by former Lake County Sheriff Tom Brown (dirty hand), whose elected term spanned 1978 - 1982.

The Murder Mansion was an appropriate setting for what Rocky Infelise had in mind. He told the skittish Jahoda a few short hours before a well-planned murder to lead the unsuspecting Bobby Plummer up the flight of stairs to the second-floor casino and "just keep going." Plummer was a "revenue collector" for Ferriola, and a gambler of long standing in the northern suburbs. He also operated the Front Runner Messenger Service, a horse-betting parlor in Highwood belonging to Michael Posner, a protégé of Ferriola and a kingpin in Lake County mob vice operations. Plummer, of north suburban Lake Forest, was attacked on the stairway and savagely beaten to death. His body was found in the trunk of his wife's Lincoln Continental in a Mundelein Holiday Inn parking lot.



COLUMBO...Do you have Michael Posner's full name and aliases? If I need a break from Florida, I would like to visit Chicago. TIA   ::MonkeyHaHa::


Herb Goldstein (or something like that)
House with the Path
But not of Gold


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Rob on June 25, 2008, 06:53:27 PM
Carlos Lehder Myspace

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=203777444

Thanks Pita and Blonde,

I thought he died in a airplane wreck during a prison transfer.

btw - a drug lord with a myspace?!!?!?! Now I've seen it all.  ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Helen Back on June 25, 2008, 07:00:24 PM
http://www.ipsn.org/lolli1.html

Acting through his underboss, Rocco Ernest Infelise, head of one of the largest "street crews" in Chicago, Ferriola directed Jahoda to lure 51-year-old Robert Heyden Plummer to the outfit's elegantly appointed "Murder Mansion" in northern Libertyville Township. The secluded Lake County mansion in the woods once belonged to a local millionaire, Bruce Rouse, and his wife, Darlene, until they were brutally murdered in 1980. Their case was never solved. The mob bought up acreage and spent $50,000 converting the former residence into a high stakes casino that employed eighteen full-time people (all "well-fed") to accommodate the gambling high rollers (ROLLERS) and fun- loving clientele who parked their cars in the rear. (lions which "play") Reportedly, the outfit raked in $400,000 for just fifteen nights of casino gambling (gold bricks). According to Jahoda, political protection was supplied by former Lake County Sheriff Tom Brown (dirty hand), whose elected term spanned 1978 - 1982.

The Murder Mansion was an appropriate setting for what Rocky Infelise had in mind. He told the skittish Jahoda a few short hours before a well-planned murder to lead the unsuspecting Bobby Plummer up the flight of stairs to the second-floor casino and "just keep going." Plummer was a "revenue collector" for Ferriola, and a gambler of long standing in the northern suburbs. He also operated the Front Runner Messenger Service, a horse-betting parlor in Highwood belonging to Michael Posner, a protégé of Ferriola and a kingpin in Lake County mob vice operations. Plummer, of north suburban Lake Forest, was attacked on the stairway and savagely beaten to death. His body was found in the trunk of his wife's Lincoln Continental in a Mundelein Holiday Inn parking lot.



COLUMBO...Do you have Michael Posner's full name and aliases? If I need a break from Florida, I would like to visit Chicago. TIA   ::MonkeyHaHa::


Herb Goldstein (or something like that)
House with the Path
But not of Gold

I think it's Michael Posner aka Michael Rubins and Irving Goldstein. ::MonkeyWink::



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 25, 2008, 07:44:52 PM
Thanks VMS!  Karen Martina is now on MySpace as Paulina in Curacao.  Curacao would make sense.  I found all of those obituaries last week from Curacao that named Wilfred Martina who is the man that we learned was the father of Freddy Martina.  There were a few of the regular Arubans, but many of the faces were new.  Valentijn is one of her friends.

http://www.myspace.com/karenmartina


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 25, 2008, 08:07:38 PM
OK LaLa's get your pencils ready.

Let's just assume that Freddy and Ernesto are half brothers, both born out of wedlock with the name Arambatzis.  Could I even dare to suggest that Ernesto, with his expensive private education, might be the illegitimate son of a wealthy Aruban citizen and that may be why he also has a link to the Florida neighborhood?  Shango could be protecting Freddy because he's Ernesto's sibling.


I'm sorry LaLa's, I'm not trying to give you palpatations.  It's just a thought.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on June 25, 2008, 10:16:02 PM
http://www.ipsn.org/lolli1.html

Acting through his underboss, Rocco Ernest Infelise, head of one of the largest "street crews" in Chicago, Ferriola directed Jahoda to lure 51-year-old Robert Heyden Plummer to the outfit's elegantly appointed "Murder Mansion" in northern Libertyville Township. The secluded Lake County mansion in the woods once belonged to a local millionaire, Bruce Rouse, and his wife, Darlene, until they were brutally murdered in 1980. Their case was never solved. The mob bought up acreage and spent $50,000 converting the former residence into a high stakes casino that employed eighteen full-time people (all "well-fed") to accommodate the gambling high rollers (ROLLERS) and fun- loving clientele who parked their cars in the rear. (lions which "play") Reportedly, the outfit raked in $400,000 for just fifteen nights of casino gambling (gold bricks). According to Jahoda, political protection was supplied by former Lake County Sheriff Tom Brown (dirty hand), whose elected term spanned 1978 - 1982.

The Murder Mansion was an appropriate setting for what Rocky Infelise had in mind. He told the skittish Jahoda a few short hours before a well-planned murder to lead the unsuspecting Bobby Plummer up the flight of stairs to the second-floor casino and "just keep going." Plummer was a "revenue collector" for Ferriola, and a gambler of long standing in the northern suburbs. He also operated the Front Runner Messenger Service, a horse-betting parlor in Highwood belonging to Michael Posner, a protégé of Ferriola and a kingpin in Lake County mob vice operations. Plummer, of north suburban Lake Forest, was attacked on the stairway and savagely beaten to death. His body was found in the trunk of his wife's Lincoln Continental in a Mundelein Holiday Inn parking lot.


Hey Colombo - rehasing and revising an old theory based on your above post - please provide comments TIA!

Deepak takes a 'bath' and arrives at C&C 30 min before closing. Does nothing but get a 'yard' drink, and then goes to the car and sits in it with the door open. Why clean up to play cab driver? Joran is an addicted gambler. He leaves one casino, goes home to do some school work at 11pm, then sneaks out to go to just C&C? He's at C&C to get 'lucky', then has plans to gamble. Before C&C that night he called several of his other gambler buddies (Jaime, Guido, etc) to hitch a ride to C&C and then to one of the 'smaller casino's, like the one you mention in the article above. Maybe some met him there at this place, but just didn't give him a ride there (they need to be pinched - they all saw out of the corners of their eyes). Maybe there is also horse betting at this makeshift casino ("...There are no donkeys or mules [IMPLYING NO DRUGS OR DRUG RUNNERS] in chess only horses..." )

Codetalkers say Natalee enjoyed sitting at the casino tables ("...She was in the casino most of the days..) Joran takes her to a small casino out by Hooiberg. I don't know the map of Aruba well, while tons have been posted here, but the lighthouse story could be made up because in one of the Kalpoe statements he mentions seeing two vehicles - two that could have easily identified where he was at a particular time that night. They take a road from the lighthouse to this house ("until the house with the path but not of gold is entered"). This house could be a converted casino/rave joint. A place where the sons of elders (Guido, GVC, Koen, Sander, Joran, Dompig's son, etc) and the arawaks gamble together. Who owns this gambling house? A CASINO OWNER BABYLONIAN OR THE SON OF ONE. THE CARD THAT WAS BEING HELD. Kalpoes leave Joran and Natalee at this gambling house - most likely they are bored of playing cheuffer. Other gamblers can give Joran a ride back (or is this casino near Jorans house?)  But then something bad happens - the LIONS (could this be the bloods/crips on Aruba?) arrive at this house/rave/casino. They see a pretty young tipsy blonde and tell Joran to scram. Maybe taking his sneaker (or two). The answer lies on the stairway. Hooiberg has a stairway. "Look by the haystack (Hooiberg) in the small hours. They live in the conuco, but they are the only ones who can open the palace doors". Could the ones who live in the conuco be the arawaks that the elders kids play with? But the Arawaks are afraid of Dirtyhand. The arawaks who were also at the gambling house. They can crack open the case (palace = legal system) but are afraid. Gamblers are afraid of DirtyHand, Arawaks scared of Dirtyhand. Chewed up tongue doesn't want to be a cafone (snitch). He knows the consequences.  Paulus picks up Joran at 4am.  Casino house owner calls his dad. One was late for school, the other was on time for school. Two fathers, two sons. and a Dirtyhand gang leader they are all afraid of. Joran also afraid of Babylon father and son (mob perhaps). "It was a simple party at his house. He was there the whole time".

Could dirtyhand be a crips/blood gang leader? Was a call traced from Hooiberg to Santa Marta? Are we dealing with Colombian gangs?

Merian Ernest   7/13/05 5:51 pm
Find Aruba. Find the Haystack. Find Santa Marta. Trace with your finger what the Antenna has spoken about. Unleash the dogs. Inch by inch…grid by grid.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on June 25, 2008, 10:35:43 PM
Who was this person in 2003?

http://www.streetgangs.com/billboard/viewtopic.php?f=281&t=739
Bulgaria gangs
by Ice on Sun Sep 21, 2003 11:38 am

..its gettin crazier every year, one of big dawgs got shot in Aruba (a tiny island far away from home), word is he stole heroin worth bout 500 mil from colombians and moved there with a fake identity but they still got him, shot him in front of his wife....restaurants get blown up every week, peeps get shot over that war for territory shit, but street gangs are on a different level back home, not a neighborhood level, its just you roll with whoever's close to u and whoever can help u make some $$$...thats about it, peace
****************************************

06-26-2007, 10:34 AM
Gang war downtown Oranjestad, Aruba
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I saw on another Aruba board about the gang war down by the Royal Plaza Mall last Saturday. Many arrested and they even made trouble at the hospital. A police car was hijacked and burnt too. Anyone have more info on this riot? I guess it says 100 or more hoodlums were involved.
****************************************
http://www.b92.net/eng/insight/tvshows.php?nav_id=51236
Glenny: You had first of all this huge area of post communism, and of states which were in transition, and which were failing or disintegrating states. Then you have other people looking for markets. And the most striking example of the coming together of the new organized crime groups in Eastern Europe, and more established organized crime groups, was the meetings arranged by the couple of Italian lawyers, on the island of Aruba in the Caribbean, between the biggest gang in Moscow and the two largest drug cartels in Colombia.  
But what happened in the early 1990s was that Colombians were selling as much drugs as they could into America, but America had reached its saturation point. Five percent of the world's population in America – forty percent of the world's cocaine consumption. And so the Columbians wanted to expand their markets in Europe. So they met with the Russians in Aruba, and devised the opening up of the new markets and new transit routes. One of those new transit routes was via Bulgaria, Albania and Croatia. The Bulgarian one, which was the most important was coming from South America to Varna, from Varna to Sofia, and then from Sofia to Belgrade. And this is one of the things the Zemun Clan was heavily involved with - the transit of cocaine from South America, to Belgrade and into the European Union. And, so, what you saw was, you first had the collapse of communism, and then you have globalization. The increased trade flows, the increased capital flows, the increased migratory flows; and those two things together were responsible for what you referred to earlier as the boom.
**********************************************
http://earthops.org/rus_mafia_carib.html
U.S. and European intelligence officials said they have reports of recent meetings between Russian organized crime figures and representatives of the Cali cocaine cartel on the islands of Aruba, St. Vincent and Antigua. The officials said the meetings appeared to be aimed at laying a foundation for long-term deals to supply weapons to the Colombians in exchange for cocaine to supply the rapidly growing market in Russia and the rest of the former Soviet Bloc nations.

In the past three months, the officials said, several Russian vessels have entered the northern Colombian port of Turbo and are believed to have unloaded shipments of AK-47 assault rifles and rocket-propelled grenades in exchange for drugs. It is perhaps a measure of the general level of violence in Colombia that authorities do not know whether the weapons went to Marxist guerrillas, right-wing paramilitary organizations or the Cali drug cartel.





Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on June 25, 2008, 10:46:22 PM
CHECKMATE - GAME OF CHESS -

http://cocaine.org/colombia/cali.html

24 November 2004
"...In a few days, Gilberto Rodríguez Orejuela, known as "The Chess Player" for his shrewdness in building Colombia's Cali cartel into the world's dominant cocaine supplier, will step off a Drug Enforcement Administration plane in Miami to face U.S. justice. Younger brother Miguel Rodríguez Orejuela, known as "El Señor," is likely to follow soon. So will begin one of the biggest drug and money-laundering cases ever prosecuted in Miami's federal courts.

"..."It's hard to believe," said Tom Cash, who ran the DEA's Miami office during the cartel's heyday. "These people were the untouchables in Cali." Cash credited the cartel's long run to its low profile and business acumen. "It's one of those proof positives that these cocaine traffickers were far from cowboys, much more like Wall Street businessmen who used their stealth and their brains and were extremely successful for a very long time," he said.
Now the Cali cartel has been replaced by smaller, more dangerous "baby cartels." Experts estimate as many as 300 mini cartels operate in Colombia.

"...Gilberto Rodríguez Orejuela is a banker by trade, with a taste for soccer, Colombian poets, and friends in high places. Miguel Rodríguez Orejuela holds a law degree from a prestigious university and has been described as a Type-A workaholic.
Together they built a sophisticated, $7 billion-a-year empire that by the mid-1990s supplied 80 percent of the world's cocaine, according to the DEA. They came up with creative ways of hiding cocaine in cement pillars and frozen broccoli and pioneered sophisticated methods to launder drug cash through businesses that appeared legitimate. Chief among them, a chain of discount pharmacies called Drogas la Rebaja, which the Colombian government seized.

"...U.S. authorities say, the brothers were restructuring the family business, turning the day-to-day operations over to Miguel Rodríguez Orejuela 's lawyer son, William Rodríguez Abadia, 40. He is a fugitive.

William Rodriguez Abadia  (He bleeped on the screen all the way to Bill’s lodgings?)




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 25, 2008, 11:15:06 PM
Does anyone know Freddy's birthday from the ALE reports and whether he is a Virgo?  Yes, I know this sounds strange!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: vms on June 26, 2008, 12:58:47 AM
I am at 100% on Simian now.


Go to:
http://www.hi5.com/friend/displaySearch.do

Enter the email address known to have been used by Simian and Merian and see who comes up.

The name says Michel Clermont but the pic is Armin.  :roll:

Picture to compare:  Link (http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a398/vms58/manosalmono9.jpg)



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 26, 2008, 05:01:15 AM
OK LaLa's get your pencils ready.

Let's just assume that Freddy and Ernesto are half brothers, both born out of wedlock with the name Arambatzis.  Could I even dare to suggest that Ernesto, with his expensive private education, might be the illegitimate son of a wealthy Aruban citizen and that may be why he also has a link to the Florida neighborhood?  Shango could be protecting Freddy because he's Ernesto's sibling.


I'm sorry LaLa's, I'm not trying to give you palpatations.  It's just a thought.

SS...Not Lala's but....Sorry can't assume they are half-brothers. Can't even work out how Lilian is even associated with the name. The Chamber records said she was Dutch, which means just that, or Aruban, therefore Dutch. Unless of course those records are wrong. The Aruba and Arambatzis is what I am having a hard time fitting...and the Zedan of course!

From our research Ernesto's mother has a Dutch mother and Greek father...I think...probably born out of wedlock, in Venuezuela. Good possibility he remained there after his mother came to the US. Could explain why we have a connection to the grandparents and not one to Mayra.

JMO.... Armin-Simian/Mirian pointed to Freddy to protect his cousin, Steve....Shango told how it was to protect 'Freddy'


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: vms on June 26, 2008, 07:41:34 AM
Freddy's Multiply Site
http://freddyzedan.multiply.com/photos

Another small pic of Sasha there...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on June 26, 2008, 08:40:25 AM
I am at 100% on Simian now.


Go to:
http://www.hi5.com/friend/displaySearch.do

Enter the email address known to have been used by Simian and Merian and see who comes up.

The name says Michel Clermont but the pic is Armin.  :roll:

Picture to compare:  Link (http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a398/vms58/manosalmono9.jpg)




http://www.garageband.com/song?%7Cpe1%7CS8LTM0LdsaSlYFa3YGg


Band: Drive-by Messiah
Genre: Latin (Rock)
Recorded at The Bontemental Ward, Oranjestad ARUBA.
Music by Armin Solognier & Drive-by Messiah.
Words by Michel Clermont.
Produced by Maurice Janssen & Drive-by Messiah.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 26, 2008, 09:06:40 AM
I am at 100% on Simian now.


Go to:
http://www.hi5.com/friend/displaySearch.do

Enter the email address known to have been used by Simian and Merian and see who comes up.

The name says Michel Clermont but the pic is Armin.  :roll:

Picture to compare:  Link (http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a398/vms58/manosalmono9.jpg)



Yes. No doubt.  Good work!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 26, 2008, 09:08:49 AM
OK LaLa's get your pencils ready.

Let's just assume that Freddy and Ernesto are half brothers, both born out of wedlock with the name Arambatzis.  Could I even dare to suggest that Ernesto, with his expensive private education, might be the illegitimate son of a wealthy Aruban citizen and that may be why he also has a link to the Florida neighborhood?  Shango could be protecting Freddy because he's Ernesto's sibling.


I'm sorry LaLa's, I'm not trying to give you palpatations.  It's just a thought.

You can suggest...this is the speculation thread. LOL   Where did I miss the "expensive private education" part in your info?  Show me again, please. TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Blonde on June 26, 2008, 09:31:40 AM
OK LaLa's get your pencils ready.

Let's just assume that Freddy and Ernesto are half brothers, both born out of wedlock with the name Arambatzis.  Could I even dare to suggest that Ernesto, with his expensive private education, might be the illegitimate son of a wealthy Aruban citizen and that may be why he also has a link to the Florida neighborhood?  Shango could be protecting Freddy because he's Ernesto's sibling.


I'm sorry LaLa's, I'm not trying to give you palpatations.  It's just a thought.


Let's just assume that Freddy and Ernesto are half brothers I would say yes on this Ernesto looks nothing like Freddy ,Ernesto has a pretty face Freddy does not.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Rob on June 26, 2008, 09:44:49 AM
I am at 100% on Simian now.


Go to:
http://www.hi5.com/friend/displaySearch.do

Enter the email address known to have been used by Simian and Merian and see who comes up.

The name says Michel Clermont but the pic is Armin.  :roll:

Picture to compare:  Link (http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a398/vms58/manosalmono9.jpg)




http://www.garageband.com/song?%7Cpe1%7CS8LTM0LdsaSlYFa3YGg


Band: Drive-by Messiah
Genre: Latin (Rock)
Recorded at The Bontemental Ward, Oranjestad ARUBA.
Music by Armin Solognier & Drive-by Messiah.
Words by Michel Clermont.
Produced by Maurice Janssen & Drive-by Messiah.


Some people messed with a lot of people's minds and posted a lot of crap using each other's nicknames on the original Scared Monkeys site. I guess just for fun. I was also a victim of someone posting using my nickname and was harassing me with aliases of my e-mails too. (I know it was someone on Aruba.) I have no part in that, so don't ask me about "codetalking" and that BS.


yeaaaahhh!!! rigggght  ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Rob on June 26, 2008, 09:51:09 AM
Hey SS, nice job on the "translation" on the last page - looks about right to me and the most accurate interpretation yet.

again, nice job.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 26, 2008, 10:13:37 AM
OK LaLa's get your pencils ready.

Let's just assume that Freddy and Ernesto are half brothers, both born out of wedlock with the name Arambatzis.  Could I even dare to suggest that Ernesto, with his expensive private education, might be the illegitimate son of a wealthy Aruban citizen and that may be why he also has a link to the Florida neighborhood?  Shango could be protecting Freddy because he's Ernesto's sibling.


I'm sorry LaLa's, I'm not trying to give you palpatations.  It's just a thought.


Let's just assume that Freddy and Ernesto are half brothers I would say yes on this Ernesto looks nothing like Freddy ,Ernesto has a pretty face Freddy does not.


Would some-one please show me something, anything, as to these two being half-brothers or step-brothers! I can't even find the first post that ties them together! All I see is a pic of them with an unknown man, that I can't tie to both of them. Thanks!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 26, 2008, 10:50:00 AM
Caps said there are no Zedans...so why does Freddy insist on that last name?  OK, it might really be his name and he is using it to distance himself from his possible half brother. Too many unknowns at this point.  I would love to figure out how we came to the conclusion that Freddy and Ernesto are brothers.  Boy!  Would I really love to make that connection...if so things might just get interesting around here.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 26, 2008, 11:06:30 AM
Caps said there are no Zedans...so why does Freddy insist on that last name?  OK, it might really be his name and he is using it to distance himself from his possible half brother. Too many unknowns at this point.  I would love to figure out how we came to the conclusion that Freddy and Ernesto are brothers.  Boy!  Would I really love to make that connection...if so things might just get interesting around here.


Morning Lala's...Caps said Zedan=0, Arambatzis=2

Lilian Regina, Robby and Freddy = 3

 I am pretty sure that Arambatzis is Lilian's maiden name, otherwise would she have kept it after she married Mr Rodriguez? I have no idea where the Albert fits either, posters even commented about her having 3 names!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 26, 2008, 11:10:29 AM
I am working on TP today.  Been thinking more and more that it's possible....just possible.

If Caps had said, Zedan=1  Abrambatzis=2   I would say bingo! 

Where is Caps when you need him? LOL


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: vms on June 26, 2008, 11:16:11 AM
Appearing in the Foundation Register of the Chamber of Commerce and Industry in ARUBA since 8 MARCH 2007 under serial number S898 is the foundation with the trade name:
 
 
STICHTING "FUNDACION CUIDAMI Y SIÑAMI" 
 
Business address MONTANJA 62, NOORD 
Legal form  FOUNDATION 
Name of the STICHTING "FUNDACION CUIDAMI Y SIÑAMI" 
company/foundation/association:
Statutory seat  ARUBA 
Date of 6 MARCH 2007 
incorporation/commencement:
     
   
BOARD MEMBERS/AUTHORIZED PERSONS 
 
ARAMBATZIS-RODRIGUEZ ALBERT, LILIAN REGINA
Residing in  MONTANJA 62, NOORD, ARUBA 
Born in  ARUBA on 7 SEPTEMBER 1953 
Nationality  DUTCH 
Position  PRESIDENT 
Effective  6 MARCH 2007 
Authority  RESTRICTED 

<snipped>

http://www.arubachamber.com/registry/registry_result.afp?KeyValue=37260


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: vms on June 26, 2008, 11:27:38 AM
Lilian Rodriguez Arambatzis
solodipueblo.com/index.php?option=com_docman&task=doc_view&gid=530


(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a398/vms58/Lilian.jpg)
solodipueblo.com/index.php?option=com_docman&task=doc_view&gid=73


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 26, 2008, 11:48:38 AM
Thanks vms...found this and it appears to be a school located at #62. She appears to be Lilian Rodriguez. So is the Arambatzis her maiden name? Born in Aruba...where does Freddy being from Venezuela come in to play? Thanks!

I wonder how Luis and Sasha fit?

Yes, where is Caps!

http://www.checkpointaruba.com/Fundacion%20Cuidami%20y%20Si%c3%b1ami/index.html


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: vms on June 26, 2008, 11:55:39 AM
Thanks vms...found this and it appears to be a school located at #62. She appears to be Lilian Rodriguez. So is the Arambatzis her maiden name? Born in Aruba...where does Freddy being from Venezuela come in to play? Thanks!

I wonder how Luis and Sasha fit?

Yes, where is Caps!

http://www.checkpointaruba.com/Fundacion%20Cuidami%20y%20Si%c3%b1ami/index.html


Yes, I think that is Lilian in that group. Didn't know about posting that one because of the children...

Luis?

IMO, Sasha is definitely related to Freddy. I just don't know if she is a half or step.

IIRC, AG told us that in Aruba the maiden name comes after the married name.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 26, 2008, 12:08:12 PM
Thanks vms...found this and it appears to be a school located at #62. She appears to be Lilian Rodriguez. So is the Arambatzis her maiden name? Born in Aruba...where does Freddy being from Venezuela come in to play? Thanks!

I wonder how Luis and Sasha fit?

Yes, where is Caps!

http://www.checkpointaruba.com/Fundacion%20Cuidami%20y%20Si%c3%b1ami/index.html


Yes, I think that is Lilian in that group. Didn't know about posting that one because of the children...

Luis?

IMO, Sasha is definitely related to Freddy. I just don't know if she is a half or step.

IIRC, AG told us that in Aruba the maiden name comes after the married name.

Luis...ISA...questioned 3 times! Will find the info! I will have to look at the names again! Which do you think is her maiden name? And what about Ghis? TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 26, 2008, 12:50:01 PM
Sorry..it was Leonardo that was quizzed from ISA....going to take a long look at some things on the Log!!!

Maybe by the time I am done I will have worked ou the names! LOL


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on June 26, 2008, 01:15:49 PM
Sorry..it was Leonardo that was quizzed from ISA....going to take a long look at some things on the Log!!!

Maybe by the time I am done I will have worked ou the names! LOL

Mum, iirc, Luis was someone Rob met & mentioned along the way.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 26, 2008, 01:27:55 PM
Sorry..it was Leonardo that was quizzed from ISA....going to take a long look at some things on the Log!!!

Maybe by the time I am done I will have worked ou the names! LOL

Mum, iirc, Luis was someone Rob met & mentioned along the way.


Thanks 2NJSons...I wonder if it was Luis Rodriguez?

Rob...can you help?  TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Rob on June 26, 2008, 02:08:51 PM
Sorry..it was Leonardo that was quizzed from ISA....going to take a long look at some things on the Log!!!

Maybe by the time I am done I will have worked ou the names! LOL

Mum, iirc, Luis was someone Rob met & mentioned along the way.


Thanks 2NJSons...I wonder if it was Luis Rodriguez?

Rob...can you help?  TIA

do you have a picture Mum?

This guy was older - like mid to late 30's. Early 40's.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 26, 2008, 02:32:41 PM
Sorry..it was Leonardo that was quizzed from ISA....going to take a long look at some things on the Log!!!

Maybe by the time I am done I will have worked ou the names! LOL

Mum, iirc, Luis was someone Rob met & mentioned along the way.


Thanks 2NJSons...I wonder if it was Luis Rodriguez?

Rob...can you help?  TIA

do you have a picture Mum?

This guy was older - like mid to late 30's. Early 40's.


Hi Rob....Are we talking about the Luis you were trying to track down as a friend of Armin's? I think maybe that is maybe whom 2NJSons is thinking of.

I was asking about a Luis Rodriguez, from the Dr Phil log, trying to work out if he is connected to Freddy's mom, Lilian Rodriguez.

And about now I am totally confused...Ramirez/Rodriguez/Rivera!

Rob...can you be of any help with these two names, please? Which would be the mother's name?  TIA

Lilian Regina ARAMBATZIS-RODRIGUEZ ALBERT

Robby Gerardhus ARAMBATZIS PEREZ

Could these two have been married? Again thanks in advance!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 26, 2008, 03:50:57 PM
LaLa's - Mum found that Ernesto had graduated from a prep school in Florida.  It's a boarding school in Bradenton. I looked all through my education materials and I can't find a tuition.  It looks/sounds like one of the expensive small prep schools.  Who paid for this tuition?  Even the cheaper baording schools aren't inexpensive.  Why didn't Freddy get the same education?

I have a question and it's a gruesome topic, but it's leading me to something else.  At 11:33, there was a Shango/Simian discussion about the Americans who were searching in the pond.  Simian always claimed that he was posting information that was about to happen.  Suddenly, at 11:37, Simian posted... Her decapitated body to be found.  Her head to wash up on shore later. Shango didn't responded to this statement about Natalee's body being mutilated.

1.  How did Simian know about a decapitated body?  He had to have a direct connection to someone at the very heart of the interrogations or he had direct information from someone who had been there at the end of the event. Daury (SC?)
2.  If you look carefully at what he said, he is telling us that her decapitated body will be found and since it is in context with the pond discussion, he is probably saying that she was in the pond. (That pond or another pond?)
3.  His second sentence says that her head would wash up on shore later.  "On shore later" tells me that her head would wash up on the shore of the ocean and that her head wouldn't be found in the pond.  Things don't usually wash up on the shore of a pond.  The perps must have mutilated her and disposed of her in various places. Was just her head placed in the fish trap?
4.  Is this what was meant when the statement was made by ALE (I think, Rudy) that he thought that she had been in three places?
5.  Did the perps dispose of the body in a number of places on the island and the ocean?  Is this why there was a "hit" at the dump, a "hit" in the shallow grave, something on the American's screen in the pond, and the missing crab cage? Is there more than one Daury who each had a body part to dispose of?

How would Simian have had this information if it wasn't directly from a perp?  Why didn't Shango respond to the statement? When Urine claims that she will never be found, is it because he knows that she has placed all over crappy island?  When he claims that he left her on the beach, perhaps he is referring to part of her on the beach.  Is this why the knife was missing from the huts?  There's a picture of a similar knife that was identified by the fisherman on Dr. Hodge's website.  Simian might have known that part of her was in pond and part of her was in the ocean.  He might even have had the ponds confused if he was told the information second hand.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 26, 2008, 04:30:47 PM
Q: Joran told more. The guy who made Natalee dissapear worked on a touristboat with a banana behind it.


Did Simian have the ponds confused because his contact had actually been assigned to ocean portion of the operation and maybe wasn't involved with the pond?


Are all of these statements that Patrick is making somehow linked to the reporter's statement that could ruin Melody's family?  Is she mad at Urine for making stateents to Patrick?  Who is the father of Melody's baby?  A perp?  A relative of a perp?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: vms on June 26, 2008, 04:44:00 PM
Thanks vms...found this and it appears to be a school located at #62. She appears to be Lilian Rodriguez. So is the Arambatzis her maiden name? Born in Aruba...where does Freddy being from Venezuela come in to play? Thanks!

I wonder how Luis and Sasha fit?

Yes, where is Caps!

http://www.checkpointaruba.com/Fundacion%20Cuidami%20y%20Si%c3%b1ami/index.html


Yes, I think that is Lilian in that group. Didn't know about posting that one because of the children...

Luis?

IMO, Sasha is definitely related to Freddy. I just don't know if she is a half or step.

IIRC, AG told us that in Aruba the maiden name comes after the married name.

Luis...ISA...questioned 3 times! Will find the info! I will have to look at the names again! Which do you think is her maiden name? And what about Ghis? TIA

I wish I had the answers to both questions, Mum.



SS,
I believe that post was from the Simian doppleganger.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 26, 2008, 04:44:20 PM
SS
Some of the Simian posts are considered to be written by the doppleganger...thus they are called fake Simian posts.  The one about the head and body is one of those posts.  I will post the fake ones as soon as I can for you to see.  I am not saying that is the truth, we were told they originated from a separate location and used a different IP address is all. 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 26, 2008, 04:48:49 PM
Some of the fake Simian posts...don't know if I found all of them.  There is a link here somewhere.


June 27, 2005
Her decapitated body to be found.

Her head to wash up on shore later

June 27, 2005
I have not left. I do not want to be copied however and would like to stay and speak.

June 27, 2005
I leave now. The island is stiring.

June 27, 2005
They have found her. Watch your news stations for this one. I said this was to happen. You can praise The Simian later

June 27, 2005
Ally ellos han encontrado su cuerpo. Mire las noticias para más información en esto



More SIMIAN fakes:

The other Simian that appears to also be a fake/troll is this one. Posted under the names Simian and crs:

All on June 24th:

As Simian:
BREAKING NEWS: Charges have been made against Joran. MURDER by Drug. Father tried to cover up and will be charged soon.
This is huge

As Simian
Im serious - im down her in aruba right now

As crs
Scratch that, it is the real Simian. He confirmed it.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Rob on June 26, 2008, 05:09:44 PM
Sorry..it was Leonardo that was quizzed from ISA....going to take a long look at some things on the Log!!!

Maybe by the time I am done I will have worked ou the names! LOL

Mum, iirc, Luis was someone Rob met & mentioned along the way.


Thanks 2NJSons...I wonder if it was Luis Rodriguez?

Rob...can you help?  TIA

do you have a picture Mum?

This guy was older - like mid to late 30's. Early 40's.


Hi Rob....Are we talking about the Luis you were trying to track down as a friend of Armin's? I think maybe that is maybe whom 2NJSons is thinking of.

I was asking about a Luis Rodriguez, from the Dr Phil log, trying to work out if he is connected to Freddy's mom, Lilian Rodriguez.

And about now I am totally confused...Ramirez/Rodriguez/Rivera!

Rob...can you be of any help with these two names, please? Which would be the mother's name?  TIA

Lilian Regina ARAMBATZIS-RODRIGUEZ ALBERT

Robby Gerardhus ARAMBATZIS PEREZ

Could these two have been married? Again thanks in advance!

Mum, I'm sorry, I just don't know much, if anything, about those folks.

My personal belief is Freddy and Ernesto might not even be related. At best, I feel they are step siblings. I believe that two people with children already born were married and that is as close as Freddy and Ernesto are. There is also a very good chance they are not even remotely related. I just don't know.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 26, 2008, 05:30:37 PM
SS
Some of the Simian posts are considered to be written by the doppleganger...thus they are called fake Simian posts.  The one about the head and body is one of those posts.  I will post the fake ones as soon as I can for you to see.  I am not saying that is the truth, we were told they originated from a separate location and used a different IP address is all. 



Thanks for the info LaLa's.  I didn't realize that this was one of the fakes.  Something still bothers me though.  Did the doppleganger also know what was going on?  The news flash that they found her was also being acted on by Renfro.  Did Renfro plant the information with the doppleganger?  Did the doppleganger plant the information with Renfro?  Is it possible that they did, God forbid, mutilate her and spread her all over the island and the ocean?  It would be easier than moving a woman's body that could be noticed and much easier to dispose of her.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Blonde on June 26, 2008, 05:56:26 PM
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/The%20pimps/ernestoaruba.gif)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on June 26, 2008, 07:05:01 PM
SS
Some of the Simian posts are considered to be written by the doppleganger...thus they are called fake Simian posts.  The one about the head and body is one of those posts.  I will post the fake ones as soon as I can for you to see.  I am not saying that is the truth, we were told they originated from a separate location and used a different IP address is all. 



Thanks for the info LaLa's.  I didn't realize that this was one of the fakes.  Something still bothers me though.  Did the doppleganger also know what was going on?  The news flash that they found her was also being acted on by Renfro.  Did Renfro plant the information with the doppleganger?  Did the doppleganger plant the information with Renfro?  Is it possible that they did, God forbid, mutilate her and spread her all over the island and the ocean?  It would be easier than moving a woman's body that could be noticed and much easier to dispose of her.



Merian Ernest   7/13/05 5:30pm
Some Tetes [HEADS] will roll in the weeks ahead. Tetes I believe means heads. [TETE IS FRENCH WORD FOR "HEAD"]

Merian Ernest 7/14/05 12:12 pm
Third act is set to play. The rotten package from The Hague is screaming to be heard. Do not sell your hard earned opinions. It might be time to eat your words. (screaming to be heard could imply a head/mouth.).

Simian Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:37 am (fake simian)
Her decapitated body to be found. Her head to wash up on shore later

Joran "...If they find the girl, they will see the sh*t....

Joran (June 13th 2005 Proces verbaal findings by Jan vdStraten) "...To my question where the girl was buried then, he answered: I think that IT was buried then next to the wall of the Fisherman's Hut., for the rest I would not know either.  During the conversation Joran showed differing emotions. Sometimes he cried, sometimes he was direct in his answers"


Merian 7/14/05 11:24 pm
The Simian called out names like bifrons. Nobody else. Listen closely today. The Babylonians are grinning after a long while. The phones have been hacked. Dots on a dish. The rotten package from The Hague. Choose sides now to avoid embarrassment. The checkmate is set again.

Merian Ernest 7/13/05 4:56pm
Swinging from a building ain’t easy. Merian has many Babylonian friends. Primates are not indigenous to the land, but make no mistake still a cousin to the great Cacique macuarima.  Look tomorrow for the Palace will rumble. Eyes burning in the xenon. Rotten packages from The Hague will make or break the losers. The palace servants have to choose sides now to avoid embarrassment.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 26, 2008, 07:29:46 PM
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=224515962

Meet Davin.  He is 32 years old.  He says he's from Amsterdam and currently living in New Zealand.  His site has many familiar Aruban faces including a "very special" friend of JC.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 26, 2008, 08:07:15 PM
The common denominator.




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 26, 2008, 08:17:33 PM
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=149845187

Meet Jonathan.  31 years old from Amsterdam.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 26, 2008, 08:26:15 PM
SS
Some of the Simian posts are considered to be written by the doppleganger...thus they are called fake Simian posts.  The one about the head and body is one of those posts.  I will post the fake ones as soon as I can for you to see.  I am not saying that is the truth, we were told they originated from a separate location and used a different IP address is all. 



Thanks for the info LaLa's.  I didn't realize that this was one of the fakes.  Something still bothers me though.  Did the doppleganger also know what was going on?  The news flash that they found her was also being acted on by Renfro.  Did Renfro plant the information with the doppleganger?  Did the doppleganger plant the information with Renfro?  Is it possible that they did, God forbid, mutilate her and spread her all over the island and the ocean?  It would be easier than moving a woman's body that could be noticed and much easier to dispose of her.



SS…I was reading a forum, a while back, about the day that happened. I am not sure where it was now, but when it was posted that Natalee’s body had been found, Julia was gone, no more posts! I think it was RWV, and I remember coming into the Forum and asking about RWV and Julia’s nic!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 26, 2008, 08:29:46 PM
Jonathan graduated from Emerson College.   ::cartwheel:: ::MonkeyDance:: ::cartwheel::




I wonder where Ernesto went to college?  Hmmmm


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 26, 2008, 08:36:03 PM
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/The%20pimps/ernestoaruba.gif)


Blonde…that is the pic with the unknown guy! Thanks…I don’t supposes you have any idea of his name and how all three are tied together do you? Thanks in Advance!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Blonde on June 26, 2008, 08:48:08 PM
All I know they were at Sasha's 15th Birthday party.

(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/The%20pimps/Sasha_s15thB-DayPartyPart2024.jpg)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: vms on June 26, 2008, 08:53:36 PM
Jonathan graduated from Emerson College.   ::cartwheel:: ::MonkeyDance:: ::cartwheel::




I wonder where Ernesto went to college?  Hmmmm

FIU


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 26, 2008, 09:14:52 PM
All I know they were at Sasha's 15th Birthday party.

(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/The%20pimps/Sasha_s15thB-DayPartyPart2024.jpg)


Thanks Blonde...any more pics, pretty please?  ::MonkeyCool::

Vms...Thanks!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Pita on June 26, 2008, 11:04:31 PM
Joran and Sasha

(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m153/CMPM/SashaJoran.jpg)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: klaasend on June 26, 2008, 11:32:51 PM
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/The%20pimps/ernestoaruba.gif)


Blonde…that is the pic with the unknown guy! Thanks…I don’t supposes you have any idea of his name and how all three are tied together do you? Thanks in Advance!

Which unknown? 

From the left:  Ernesto, Freddy then I'd guess Sasha's dad


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Silverfox on June 27, 2008, 05:39:15 AM
Does anyone here track any trails to Jacksonville, Florida?  If so let me know.  Thanks


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 27, 2008, 07:15:02 AM
Does anyone here track any trails to Jacksonville, Florida?  If so let me know.  Thanks

Now who can I think of that may have ties to Jacksonville...A couple of FO posters... ::MonkeyHaHa::

Thanks in Advance...Silverfox!

Thanks Pita...and Klaas...Rodriguez, Sasha....Lilian?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 27, 2008, 07:47:22 AM
Does anyone here track any trails to Jacksonville, Florida?  If so let me know.  Thanks

Now who can I think of that may have ties to Jacksonville...A couple of FO posters... ::MonkeyHaHa::

Thanks in Advance...Silverfox!

Thanks Pita...and Klaas...Rodriguez, Sasha....Lilian?


Sorry...FP...Front page

Connection to the Rodriguez family and the van der Sloot family?

Who is the blonde guy in the pic with Jaime and Koen? TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Blonde on June 27, 2008, 08:23:46 AM
Same night

(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/Aruba/nh079.jpg)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: vms on June 27, 2008, 08:51:27 AM
Does anyone here track any trails to Jacksonville, Florida?  If so let me know.  Thanks

I was looking in that direction at one point.
I am definitely interested.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Observer on June 27, 2008, 08:56:41 AM
Does anyone here track any trails to Jacksonville, Florida?  If so let me know.  Thanks

I was looking in that direction at one point.
I am definitely interested.
Yes,The owner of FOB2 lived there and now Clermont. The oldest address I could find on him was Michigan of all places. The other registered owner of that blog lives in Indian Rocks Beach.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 27, 2008, 09:01:36 AM
Does anyone here track any trails to Jacksonville, Florida?  If so let me know.  Thanks

I was looking in that direction at one point.
I am definitely interested.


Good Morning vms...All roads lead to Florida!  LOL


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: vms on June 27, 2008, 09:05:24 AM
Does anyone here track any trails to Jacksonville, Florida?  If so let me know.  Thanks

I was looking in that direction at one point.
I am definitely interested.
Yes,The owner of FOB2 lived there and now Clermont. The oldest address I could find on him was Michigan of all places. The other registered owner of that blog lives in Indian Rocks Beach.

Ok, I was on a different trail that led directly to Jacksonville.  :lol:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 27, 2008, 09:08:02 AM
Silverfox
Many roads lead to Jacksonville!  Want to share?  I am sure VMS and I would be most imterested. 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: vms on June 27, 2008, 09:08:20 AM
Does anyone here track any trails to Jacksonville, Florida?  If so let me know.  Thanks

I was looking in that direction at one point.
I am definitely interested.


Good Morning vms...All roads lead to Florida!  LOL

Morning, Mum.

So true, we've traveled all over Florida!  ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 27, 2008, 09:16:33 AM
Maybe we need to pursue another direction for a change in hopes it leads us back to our original ideas?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 27, 2008, 09:18:31 AM
Does anyone here track any trails to Jacksonville, Florida?  If so let me know.  Thanks

I was looking in that direction at one point.
I am definitely interested.
Yes,The owner of FOB2 lived there and now Clermont. The oldest address I could find on him was Michigan of all places. The other registered owner of that blog lives in Indian Rocks Beach.

Did you say Michigan?   Weren't the fake Simian posts from there as well? Hmmmmm.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Observer on June 27, 2008, 09:22:47 AM
Does anyone here track any trails to Jacksonville, Florida?  If so let me know.  Thanks

I was looking in that direction at one point.
I am definitely interested.
Yes,The owner of FOB2 lived there and now Clermont. The oldest address I could find on him was Michigan of all places. The other registered owner of that blog lives in Indian Rocks Beach.

Did you say Michigan?   Weren't the fake Simian posts from there as well? Hmmmmm.
Yes I did,Howell Michigan..He's the same age as Paul Brough and the FOB2 server is out of Lansing Michigan about two miles from a address registered to him. It doesn't mean PB is definetly tied to FOB2 because that is just where the server host is located,but I have my suspicions. Plus a little birdy told me PB'S partner lives in FLA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 27, 2008, 09:35:21 AM
Maybe we need to pursue another direction for a change in hopes it leads us back to our original ideas?



Good Morning...I am on a short trip to Aruba this morning...business...not pleasure!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 27, 2008, 09:48:08 AM
Maybe we need to pursue another direction for a change in hopes it leads us back to our original ideas?



Good Morning...I am on a short trip to Aruba this morning...business...not pleasure!

Oh goody!!!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 27, 2008, 09:56:16 AM
Obs
The first time I learned the origin of the fake posts were in Michigan I thought about Medley, since I knew she was there.  I had a good laugh at the time about it, but always had it in the back of my mind as being someone she knew. 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Silverfox on June 27, 2008, 11:30:57 AM
Silverfox
Many roads lead to Jacksonville!  Want to share?  I am sure VMS and I would be most imterested. 

OK...Klass should have my email addie -- Klass please give it to Lala ... I got a strange message earlier today and probably means nothing except when I traced the IP it took me to Jacksonville, Florida...So I thought I would share the IP to see if there might be a match...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 27, 2008, 12:21:30 PM
Silverfox

Here is my email...

cindoal@yahoo.com


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 27, 2008, 12:45:10 PM
OK, How is the fake Simian in Michigan connected to JR?  Both acted on the news flash that a body had been or was about to be found.  Fake Simian posted the news flash and JR did her theatrical performance.  Knowing what we now know, that performance was no mistake because JR KNOWS. Everything that she did during that period of time was a performance.  This had to be a big diversion from something that was going on that they needed to hide, because the searchers didn't even find a body in the pond.  Was someone else brought in for questioning that morning and they needed to keep the media away?  The pond was being searched, but was anything else happening at that same time?  Simian protected Steve and Shango protected Freddy.  Who in Michigan was protecting JR?  Am I off base?  JR also led them to the wrong police station.  Was this the plan?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 27, 2008, 12:59:47 PM
Don't know that they are connected.  There was a poster or maybe two that claimed to be from Michigan.  I carried on for months about Simian's posts until someone told me they were fake...meaning they were written by Simian's doppleganger.  That is the accepted idea anyway, does not mean that to be true...just speculation based on somewhat reliable info.  One of us asked about the decapitated head post and that is how I found out it was fake because it did not originated from the same IP or maybe it was the same email address as the first Siman posts. 

Since that time, I have found out so much more and tend to lean toward all these Simian's being connected in some way.  So when Obs said Michigan, well it got my attention.  I am always going hmmmmm over something.  Anytime I do that it means I have made another connection with a dot in the case.  Doesn't mean I know a darn thing about what I am talking. LOL 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 27, 2008, 01:03:57 PM
One more thing SS

I would say that Simian/Merian was trying to protect Steve, but it is pure speculation that Shango was trying to protect Freddy at this point.  The connection to Steve and Simian is there...but the connection to Shango and Freddy is still awaiting moderation. LOL   


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 27, 2008, 01:16:26 PM
One more thing SS

I would say that Simian/Merian was trying to protect Steve, but it is pure speculation that Shango was trying to protect Freddy at this point.  The connection to Steve and Simian is there...but the connection to Shango and Freddy is still awaiting moderation. LOL   



I personally think that the frantic car chase with Natalee being swept away to South America was also staged as a cover.  Thiel was probably set up.  This could have been set up by the Shango team as a cover or Simian, or JR.  Who was being questioned that morning who would have been so important that a diversion that big had to be staged?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 27, 2008, 01:19:52 PM
OK, How is the fake Simian in Michigan connected to JR?  Both acted on the news flash that a body had been or was about to be found.  Fake Simian posted the news flash and JR did her theatrical performance.  Knowing what we now know, that performance was no mistake because JR KNOWS. Everything that she did during that period of time was a performance.  This had to be a big diversion from something that was going on that they needed to hide, because the searchers didn't even find a body in the pond.  Was someone else brought in for questioning that morning and they needed to keep the media away?  The pond was being searched, but was anything else happening at that same time?  Simian protected Steve and Shango protected Freddy.  Who in Michigan was protecting JR?  Am I off base?  JR also led them to the wrong police station.  Was this the plan?




A whole drama played out that morning on the forums, from what I have read.  There was an arrest reported by AP and another US news source, the after a few hours...POOF!...no more.  I have posted the articles in Shango a couple of times, along with the sequence of events. Lala's just posted one about the same day, IIRC, and a 6th. person's house.

I believe this to be Freddy, as he was questioned the next day, and if you count Guido, who Simian would have known about, and needed permission to go to The Netherlands, this makes Freddy the Fifth.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 27, 2008, 01:24:44 PM
Don't know that they are connected.  There was a poster or maybe two that claimed to be from Michigan.  I carried on for months about Simian's posts until someone told me they were fake...meaning they were written by Simian's doppleganger.  That is the accepted idea anyway, does not mean that to be true...just speculation based on somewhat reliable info.  One of us asked about the decapitated head post and that is how I found out it was fake because it did not originated from the same IP or maybe it was the same email address as the first Siman posts. 

Since that time, I have found out so much more and tend to lean toward all these Simian's being connected in some way.  So when Obs said Michigan, well it got my attention.  I am always going hmmmmm over something.  Anytime I do that it means I have made another connection with a dot in the case.  Doesn't mean I know a darn thing about what I am talking. LOL 


Zedans are in Michigan...same area as Paul Brough!  Another coincidence! Just can't find any in Aruba! And now both Freddy and Lilian are not using Arambatzis either. Go figure!!! Not surprising to me in the very least...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 27, 2008, 01:29:14 PM
One more thing SS

I would say that Simian/Merian was trying to protect Steve, but it is pure speculation that Shango was trying to protect Freddy at this point.  The connection to Steve and Simian is there...but the connection to Shango and Freddy is still awaiting moderation. LOL   



I personally think that the frantic car chase with Natalee being swept away to South America was also staged as a cover.  Thiel was probably set up.  This could have been set up by the Shango team as a cover or Simian, or JR.  Who was being questioned that morning who would have been so important that a diversion that big had to be staged?

Mirian said 'the noble son of the sun breaking through!'


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 27, 2008, 02:07:58 PM
OK, How is the fake Simian in Michigan connected to JR?  Both acted on the news flash that a body had been or was about to be found.  Fake Simian posted the news flash and JR did her theatrical performance.  Knowing what we now know, that performance was no mistake because JR KNOWS. Everything that she did during that period of time was a performance.  This had to be a big diversion from something that was going on that they needed to hide, because the searchers didn't even find a body in the pond.  Was someone else brought in for questioning that morning and they needed to keep the media away?  The pond was being searched, but was anything else happening at that same time?  Simian protected Steve and Shango protected Freddy.  Who in Michigan was protecting JR?  Am I off base?  JR also led them to the wrong police station.  Was this the plan?




A whole drama played out that morning on the forums, from what I have read.  There was an arrest reported by AP and another US news source, the after a few hours...POOF!...no more.  I have posted the articles in Shango a couple of times, along with the sequence of events. Lala's just posted one about the same day, IIRC, and a 6th. person's house.

I believe this to be Freddy, as he was questioned the next day, and if you count Guido, who Simian would have known about, and needed permission to go to The Netherlands, this makes Freddy the Fifth.

And this was before Paulus arrest.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 27, 2008, 02:24:52 PM
OK, How is the fake Simian in Michigan connected to JR?  Both acted on the news flash that a body had been or was about to be found.  Fake Simian posted the news flash and JR did her theatrical performance.  Knowing what we now know, that performance was no mistake because JR KNOWS. Everything that she did during that period of time was a performance.  This had to be a big diversion from something that was going on that they needed to hide, because the searchers didn't even find a body in the pond.  Was someone else brought in for questioning that morning and they needed to keep the media away?  The pond was being searched, but was anything else happening at that same time?  Simian protected Steve and Shango protected Freddy.  Who in Michigan was protecting JR?  Am I off base?  JR also led them to the wrong police station.  Was this the plan?




A whole drama played out that morning on the forums, from what I have read.  There was an arrest reported by AP and another US news source, the after a few hours...POOF!...no more.  I have posted the articles in Shango a couple of times, along with the sequence of events. Lala's just posted one about the same day, IIRC, and a 6th. person's house.

I believe this to be Freddy, as he was questioned the next day, and if you count Guido, who Simian would have known about, and needed permission to go to The Netherlands, this makes Freddy the Fifth.

And this was before Paulus arrest.


This was on 6/11/2005...I will see if I can find the entire series of events, as I don't believe I saved it once I posted it.

There were 2 press reports, then it was denied and I believe the last news article out of Curacao, said totally unrelated to the case...please don't quote me, I will find it...LOL...I found it right after I started posting and didn't know how to save a link and post it, so I don't remember if I was reading the FP or at RWV that day!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 27, 2008, 02:49:09 PM
LOL...I have posted it three times...and each time I want it I have to search...going to save the links to my posts!... ::MonkeyHaHa::

the link is no longer available.

www.nbc4i.com/news/4593143/detail.html

Another Arrest Made In Case Of Missing Ala. Teen
POSTED: 9:38 am EDT June 10, 2005
UPDATED: 9:34 am EDT June 11, 2005

ORANJESTAD, Aruba -- Police in Aruba investigating the disappearance of an Alabama teenager made another arrest early Saturday. It comes just hours after police said one of three men recently arrested admitted "something bad had happened" to Natalee Holloway.

Police aren't commenting on the latest arrest, which was the sixth since Holloway went missing May 30.

Late Friday, one of three young men who took Holloway to the beach during her class trip to Aruba said "something bad happened" to her, police said.

The three men arrested by Aruban police early Thursday morning had been designated "persons of interest" in the case and were detained soon after Natalee Holloway's disappearance. Police officials questioned the trio, and then released them back to their families.

And more…..

This one from the AP about the same arrest:
By MICHAEL NORTON, Associated Press Writer

ORANJESTAD, Aruba - Police investigating the disappearance of an Alabama honors student in Aruba arrested a man at dawn Saturday, hours after one of three young men already in custody admitted "something bad happened" to the woman after they took her to the beach.

It was unclear if the 6 a.m. arrest was related to the admission. The same team of officers who arrested five others in the case during the past week went to a home just outside Oranjestad, the capital, and came out with a handcuffed man who looked to be in his 20s.

And then I posted:
OK....I just read that the arrest I posted above was NOT related to Natalee!

Next I posted:
Same arrest....now it didn't happen!

by Norman 'Gus' Thomas
Caribbean Net News Senior Regional Correspondent
E-mail: rc@caribbeannetnews.com
Saturday, June 11, 2005ORANJESTAD, Aruba:

Law enforcement officials in Aruba are calling recent reports coming out of the USA in relation to the disappearance of an Alabama teenager as "untrue and misleading." 18-year-old Natalee Holloway vanished May 29 after leaving an Oranjestad nightclub.

According to US reports, police in Aruba arrested a man on Saturday morning, after one of a trio that was previously held reportedly told police "something bad happened to her".

CNN's 2:00 pm report on Saturday stated that a senior police officer had told them that one of the three men arrested had confessed to killing Halloway.

Aruba police told Caribbean Net News Saturday that they have been engaged in an unsuccessful island-wide search for Holloway, who had come to the island with 124 other students from the USA to celebrate their graduation from Mountain Brook High School.

Caribbean Net News contacted CNN Headline News in Atlanta who said that they have reporters on the ground in Aruba and were adamant that they are sticking by their story.

However, officials in Aruba maintain that no confession was made and there has been no other arrest apart from the five made earlier.

According to one US report, police this morning visited a home on the outskirts of the capital city of Oranjestad and were later seen coming from the house with a young man wearing handcuffs, but the Aruba police have also denied this.

However, police did confirm to Caribbean Net News that, of the arrested trio, two are brothers and hail from Suriname while the other is a 17-year-old Dutchman who is the son of a top member of Aruba's legal circle.









Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on June 27, 2008, 05:08:31 PM
One more thing SS

I would say that Simian/Merian was trying to protect Steve, but it is pure speculation that Shango was trying to protect Freddy at this point.  The connection to Steve and Simian is there...but the connection to Shango and Freddy is still awaiting moderation. LOL   

I personally think that the frantic car chase with Natalee being swept away to South America was also staged as a cover.  Thiel was probably set up.  This could have been set up by the Shango team as a cover or Simian, or JR.  Who was being questioned that morning who would have been so important that a diversion that big had to be staged?

Mirian said 'the noble son of the sun breaking through!'

Mum,

sol naciente = "rising sun" when translated from Spanish to English.
 (sun breaking thru? jaguar rising?)

http://www.vrijmetselarij.net/el_sol_naciente/ 
LODGE EL SOL NACIENTE
Webmaster J.R. Laclé
Chartered under the Grand East of the Netherlands 
(Band Master Dennis Wever)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 28, 2008, 02:26:15 AM
One more thing SS

I would say that Simian/Merian was trying to protect Steve, but it is pure speculation that Shango was trying to protect Freddy at this point.  The connection to Steve and Simian is there...but the connection to Shango and Freddy is still awaiting moderation. LOL   



I personally think that the frantic car chase with Natalee being swept away to South America was also staged as a cover.  Thiel was probably set up.  This could have been set up by the Shango team as a cover or Simian, or JR.  Who was being questioned that morning who would have been so important that a diversion that big had to be staged?

Mirian said 'the noble son of the sun breaking through!'



Didn't we find that this was the flag of Anitgua (I think) that had the sun rising?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 28, 2008, 02:43:52 AM
Who was born on Antigua and Babruda?



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Silverfox on June 28, 2008, 08:01:06 AM
Lala's -- You've got mail  ::MonkeyCool::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: sharon on June 28, 2008, 08:06:46 AM
I am at 100% on Simian now.


Go to:
http://www.hi5.com/friend/displaySearch.do

Enter the email address known to have been used by Simian and Merian and see who comes up.

The name says Michel Clermont but the pic is Armin.  :roll:

Picture to compare:  Link (http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a398/vms58/manosalmono9.jpg)



fyi -- Casa Tua is (was?) a restaurant on Miami Beach.

But you all probaly knew that.  ::MonkeyLaugh::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 28, 2008, 08:07:22 AM
Lala's -- You've got mail  ::MonkeyCool::

Thanks.  Working on it as we speak. Will let you know.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: sharon on June 28, 2008, 08:12:02 AM
Jonathan graduated from Emerson College.   ::cartwheel:: ::MonkeyDance:: ::cartwheel::




I wonder where Ernesto went to college?  Hmmmm

FIU

??

I thought Ernie went to college in Venezuela?? I thought the Frog posted that way back in 2005??


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 28, 2008, 08:16:07 AM
Jonathan graduated from Emerson College.   ::cartwheel:: ::MonkeyDance:: ::cartwheel::




I wonder where Ernesto went to college?  Hmmmm

FIU

??

I thought Ernie went to college in Venezuela?? I thought the Frog posted that way back in 2005??
.

You could be right there...I hope Kermit will repost that info so we can be sure. I think some other monkeys have discovered he attended a school in Bradenton or it was called Bradenton.  I can't remember the details, but I am sure Mum will post when she drops in later.  I was kind of surprised too. Always thought the same as you until just the other day. Thanks for reminding where we heard it.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: sharon on June 28, 2008, 08:29:19 AM
One more thing SS

I would say that Simian/Merian was trying to protect Steve, but it is pure speculation that Shango was trying to protect Freddy at this point.  The connection to Steve and Simian is there...but the connection to Shango and Freddy is still awaiting moderation. LOL   

Lala's!

You are bringing up a great point that has perplexed me for some time.....

As I read the threads (and of course reminiscing to the days and nights that I watched the Simian and Shango postings 'live' as they were occuring on Scared Monkeys)......

You (we) have all spent 3 years 'deciphering' the code.....I have read over 100 interpretations for every line of Simian and Shango -- and well over 100 diffferent people named for each speculation....and countless interpretations of locations and events and people from all around the world (although you do spend a great deal of time in Florida  ::MonkeyLaugh:: ::MonkeyLaugh::).....

So someone please explain to me -- how did Simian and Shango IMMEDIATELY know what the other was talking about???

Sorry. I have been cursed with logical mind  ::MonkeyCool::



And btw...IMO -- the obscure comment about the 'rat and whiskers and drippings' -- refers to the DOPPLEGANGER who liked to use '.....' in their posts, where Simian did NOT use '...'.


One more thing -- I checked out a few of the addresses you were all posting last week as several were actually in my zip code  ::MonkeyLaugh::....and well -- we've been in a construction boom for quite awhile and many of the places from 13 years ago are gone  ::MonkeyHaHa:: But I haven't completed my survey yet

Hve a great day fellow Monkeys. I'm OFF to brave another day on the dangerous streets of South Florida  ::MonkeyLaugh:: ::MonkeyLaugh::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 28, 2008, 08:39:27 AM
Jonathan graduated from Emerson College.   ::cartwheel:: ::MonkeyDance:: ::cartwheel::




I wonder where Ernesto went to college?  Hmmmm

FIU

??

I thought Ernie went to college in Venezuela?? I thought the Frog posted that way back in 2005??


Hi Sharon...most of the Floridians have been very hospitable... ::MonkeyWink::



Ernesto    Arambatzis       

Graduation Year:   1994
City:   Porlamar
State:   NE
Country:   Venezuela


http://www.bradentonacademy.com/apps/directory/directory_item.jsp?REC_ID=131590&rn=1129278


This is the link, it goes to Bradenton Prep. School in Florida…It is not a college. The earliest we have placed him in Florida, so far is 1995, so he may have been in Venezuela.

We have also found him associated with an address in Bradenton, Florida….

Thanks for the info, once again...Have a great day!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: sharon on June 28, 2008, 09:10:10 AM


Hi Sharon...most of the Floridians have been very hospitable... ::MonkeyWink::



Ernesto    Arambatzis       

Graduation Year:   1994
City:   Porlamar
State:   NE
Country:   Venezuela


http://www.bradentonacademy.com/apps/directory/directory_item.jsp?REC_ID=131590&rn=1129278


This is the link, it goes to Bradenton Prep. School in Florida…It is not a college. The earliest we have placed him in Florida, so far is 1995, so he may have been in Venezuela.

We have also found him associated with an address in Bradenton, Florida….

Thanks for the info, once again...Have a great day!


Morning Mum! (just checking in one more time b4 I leave)

The 'Bradenton' aspect has also intrigued me but I've not had the chance to follow up yet.

Bradenton is a 'suburb' of Sarasota -- which in itself is funny because Sarasota is no 'cit'  ::MonkeyLaugh::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: sharon on June 28, 2008, 09:16:32 AM


Hi Sharon...most of the Floridians have been very hospitable... ::MonkeyWink::



Ernesto    Arambatzis       

Graduation Year:   1994
City:   Porlamar
State:   NE
Country:   Venezuela


http://www.bradentonacademy.com/apps/directory/directory_item.jsp?REC_ID=131590&rn=1129278


This is the link, it goes to Bradenton Prep. School in Florida…It is not a college. The earliest we have placed him in Florida, so far is 1995, so he may have been in Venezuela.

We have also found him associated with an address in Bradenton, Florida….

Thanks for the info, once again...Have a great day!


Morning Mum! (just checking in one more time b4 I leave)

The 'Bradenton' aspect has also intrigued me but I've not had the chance to follow up yet.

Bradenton is a 'suburb' of Sarasota -- which in itself is funny because Sarasota is no 'cit'  ::MonkeyLaugh::

(sorry -- I didn't think I hit 'post' but must have)

Anywhoo -- in 1995 the Sarasota/Bradenton area was in the throes of early development. Caters primarily to 'wealthy' retirees -- or 'wealthy' second home owners -- who were not interested in the multi-ethnicity of Florida's south east coast.

Lot's of 'banks' to handle 'trusts' -- if you get my drift.

Back in 1987 -- the Sarasota Bradenton airport resembled a beach shack  ::MonkeyLaugh::

Sarasota has tried to grow into an 'arsty fartsy' and cultural retirement image -- a 'mini 'Santa Fe' on Florida's south west coast.

I'm curious as to what (or who) brought Ernesto there at that time



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: vms on June 28, 2008, 09:51:10 AM
Brandenton Academy Search
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a398/vms58/Ernesto-BrandentonAcademy.jpg)

http://www.facebook.com/srch.php?hs=33568045&hr=&nm=ernesto+arambatzis



FIU Search
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a398/vms58/Ernesto-FIU.jpg)

http://www.facebook.com/srch.php?n=16777404&yr=&nm=ernesto+arambatzis


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 28, 2008, 10:48:04 AM
And my nagging question is..... Who paid for Ernesto's education?

My parents retired to the Sarasota area for about 20 years and I went to visit often.  There is a lot of "old money" in that town including the St. Armends area, old Sarasota, and Siesta Key.

Last March, Finbar popped in with some information.  I have no idea where Finbar got his information, but he gave us some clues that did pan out.  He told us that we would find the 5th suspect in the Solognier/Croes family tree.  Through this, we discovered that Rufo Solognier was Steve Croes' uncle/neighbor` and that Steve Croes was in that family tree. Are Freddy and Ernesto also in that family tree some place?  Finbar never told us that Steve was actually the 5th.  Is Freddy's biological father in that tree?  At that time, we hadn't linked Armin Solognier to Simian.

Finbar also gave us these clues....

"...Frenchman...."  Solognier
"Blue blood...."     Armin Solognier's claim that Simian was a blue blood
"Cousins"  Armin, Steve, anyone else?
"Crows"   
"South American"  Venezuela?
"Curacao"
"grandmother"  I think this is Steve's grandmother and Rufo Solognier's mother-in-law
"Insurance"
"Blogs"
"ALE"  Rufo is the retired ALE Chief and probably an information source for Armin
"Ex-monkey"  Aruba Girl
Fin3/19/08
Not Shango.

Search: Solaganier + genaruba


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 28, 2008, 10:53:23 AM
LOL...I have posted it three times...and each time I want it I have to search...going to save the links to my posts!... ::MonkeyHaHa::

the link is no longer available.

www.nbc4i.com/news/4593143/detail.html

Another Arrest Made In Case Of Missing Ala. Teen
POSTED: 9:38 am EDT June 10, 2005
UPDATED: 9:34 am EDT June 11, 2005

ORANJESTAD, Aruba -- Police in Aruba investigating the disappearance of an Alabama teenager made another arrest early Saturday. It comes just hours after police said one of three men recently arrested admitted "something bad had happened" to Natalee Holloway.

Police aren't commenting on the latest arrest, which was the sixth since Holloway went missing May 30.

Late Friday, one of three young men who took Holloway to the beach during her class trip to Aruba said "something bad happened" to her, police said.

The three men arrested by Aruban police early Thursday morning had been designated "persons of interest" in the case and were detained soon after Natalee Holloway's disappearance. Police officials questioned the trio, and then released them back to their families.

And more…..

This one from the AP about the same arrest:
By MICHAEL NORTON, Associated Press Writer

ORANJESTAD, Aruba - Police investigating the disappearance of an Alabama honors student in Aruba arrested a man at dawn Saturday, hours after one of three young men already in custody admitted "something bad happened" to the woman after they took her to the beach.

It was unclear if the 6 a.m. arrest was related to the admission. The same team of officers who arrested five others in the case during the past week went to a home just outside Oranjestad, the capital, and came out with a handcuffed man who looked to be in his 20s.

And then I posted:
OK....I just read that the arrest I posted above was NOT related to Natalee!

Next I posted:
Same arrest....now it didn't happen!

by Norman 'Gus' Thomas
Caribbean Net News Senior Regional Correspondent
E-mail: rc@caribbeannetnews.com
Saturday, June 11, 2005ORANJESTAD, Aruba:

Law enforcement officials in Aruba are calling recent reports coming out of the USA in relation to the disappearance of an Alabama teenager as "untrue and misleading." 18-year-old Natalee Holloway vanished May 29 after leaving an Oranjestad nightclub.

According to US reports, police in Aruba arrested a man on Saturday morning, after one of a trio that was previously held reportedly told police "something bad happened to her".

CNN's 2:00 pm report on Saturday stated that a senior police officer had told them that one of the three men arrested had confessed to killing Halloway.

Aruba police told Caribbean Net News Saturday that they have been engaged in an unsuccessful island-wide search for Holloway, who had come to the island with 124 other students from the USA to celebrate their graduation from Mountain Brook High School.

Caribbean Net News contacted CNN Headline News in Atlanta who said that they have reporters on the ground in Aruba and were adamant that they are sticking by their story.

However, officials in Aruba maintain that no confession was made and there has been no other arrest apart from the five made earlier.

According to one US report, police this morning visited a home on the outskirts of the capital city of Oranjestad and were later seen coming from the house with a young man wearing handcuffs, but the Aruba police have also denied this.

However, police did confirm to Caribbean Net News that, of the arrested trio, two are brothers and hail from Suriname while the other is a 17-year-old Dutchman who is the son of a top member of Aruba's legal circle.













The drama of the car chase was no doubt orchestrated to divert the media attention away from the 5th suspect who was brought in for questioning.  Who was protecting the 5th suspect?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 28, 2008, 11:45:09 AM
Here are the last names from the specific family tree that Finbar sent us to.  Remember, these are not the current one or two generations, because those names are not made public in most family trees.  This is what is making it so difficult to trace current cousins.  Who else is a cousin besides Steve Croes?

Croes (lots of them), van der Westen, van der Biest, van der Woestijne, Poppe, Specht, Solangier, Solognier, Castro, Ravine, Tromp, Lampe, xxxxxx, Henriques.  Imolda Satitia Saliana is the mother of Steve Croes.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 28, 2008, 11:59:00 AM
Are these names Familiar?  Gerald Oduber (19), Joe Oduber (23), Gos Oduber (46), Orson Oduber (20)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Kermit on June 28, 2008, 02:04:27 PM
Ernesto       Arambatzis             1994       Porlamar       NE       Venezuela
http://tinyurl.com/hzjel

(http://static.flickr.com/19/93972481_0885d65655.jpg)
Porlamar, Venezeula
(http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/9068/ernestoarambatzisev9.jpg)



LIVE WEB CAM (oops, don't scroll down if you are sensitive to natural booty) :D
from Isla Margarita, Portamar, Venezuela:
http://www.margaritainfo.com/webcam.htm


I posted the information on this thread here:
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1952.msg355376


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: finngirl on June 28, 2008, 03:56:46 PM
my responses in blue

Last March, Finbar popped in with some information.  I have no idea where Finbar got his information, but he gave us some clues that did pan out.  He told us that we would find the 5th suspect in the Solognier/Croes family tree.  Through this, we discovered that Rufo Solognier was Steve Croes' uncle/neighbor` and that Steve Croes was in that family tree. Are Freddy and Ernesto also in that family tree some place?  Finbar never told us that Steve was actually the 5th.  Is Freddy's biological father in that tree?  At that time, we hadn't linked Armin Solognier to Simian.

Finbar also gave us these clues....

"...Frenchman...." Solognier yes

"Blue blood...." Armin Solognier's claim that Simian was a blue blood
yes, altho fin would disagree that sim = Armin

"Cousins"  Armin, Steve, anyone else? AG

"Crows" finspeak for Croes ... AG/Steve Croes = cousins
 
"South American"  Venezuela? grandmother

"Curacao" grandmother

"grandmother"  I think this is Steve's grandmother and Rufo Solognier's mother-in-law
and related to AG as well

"Insurance" AG worked in gov't insurance bureau

"Blogs" AG was most prolific aruban blogger/summer '05
in terms of total posts/forum memberships

"ALE"  Rufo is the retired ALE Chief and probably an information source for Armin
and AG

"Ex-monkey"  Aruba Girl yes

Fin 3/19/08 um ... what's this? date of fin's post?

Not Shango. when fin's AG/sim theory hit the forums
AG denied being shango ... fin was like WTF?

Search: Solaganier + genaruba

FWIW:
fin's early conclusions/about 18 months ago
were reinforced when he worked AG's geneaology
in more depth recently

fin is one of the most logical/dogged thinkers
I've ever encountered
so I still agree w/ his theory that AG = sim

I did start this post w/ FWIW ... LOL ...
since I know that AG = sim  = unpopular

sim posing as male = plausible deniability ...
said deniability being one component of fin's theory ...
going underground = change important details

June 28 2005 2:21 am Robalo33:
J’aime mieux passer les temps avec un femme comme vous Simian 
translation: I would rather spend time with a woman like you Simian.

AG said that her female cuz was ALE
and also said: all 4 cops that I know worked the case

perhaps the same could be said re ALE cuz:
(fe)male cuz = plausible deniability

everyone did a great job w/ fin's clues
but just barely missed his true intention

he also thought one of the doppelgangers
may have been AG's mom, since they live together
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

... In politics and espionage, deniability refers to the ability of a "powerful player" or actor to avoid "blowback" by secretly arranging for an action to be taken on their behalf by a third party—ostensibly unconnected with the major player ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plausible_deniability



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 28, 2008, 04:07:37 PM
So, Ernesto went to school in Bradenton, but listed his hometown as Porlamar, Venezuela.  Maybe he didn't spend much time on Aruba.  Freddy might have only been on Aruba for a few years, himself.  If Urine said that Freddy spoke terrible English and didn't undertand Pap, then that means Freddy speaks Spanish.  Mum is right.  Would that also mean that Ernesto most likely speaks Spanish and he probably wouldn't realize it if someone insulted him in Pap?  Who paid for Ernesto's tuition at Bradenton and why didn't Freddy get the same deal?  I wonder if Ernesto and/or Freddy are related to the Mansurs who also have interests in that part of Venezuela. Could Lillian be a cousin or the mother of one or two of their illegitimate kids? 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 28, 2008, 04:18:32 PM
my responses in blue

Last March, Finbar popped in with some information.  I have no idea where Finbar got his information, but he gave us some clues that did pan out.  He told us that we would find the 5th suspect in the Solognier/Croes family tree.  Through this, we discovered that Rufo Solognier was Steve Croes' uncle/neighbor` and that Steve Croes was in that family tree. Are Freddy and Ernesto also in that family tree some place?  Finbar never told us that Steve was actually the 5th.  Is Freddy's biological father in that tree?  At that time, we hadn't linked Armin Solognier to Simian.

Finbar also gave us these clues....

"...Frenchman...." Solognier yes

"Blue blood...." Armin Solognier's claim that Simian was a blue blood
yes, altho fin would disagree that sim = Armin

"Cousins"  Armin, Steve, anyone else? AG

"Crows" finspeak for Croes ... AG/Steve Croes = cousins
 
"South American"  Venezuela? grandmother

"Curacao" grandmother

"grandmother"  I think this is Steve's grandmother and Rufo Solognier's mother-in-law
and related to AG as well

"Insurance" AG worked in gov't insurance bureau

"Blogs" AG was most prolific aruban blogger/summer '05
in terms of total posts/forum memberships

"ALE"  Rufo is the retired ALE Chief and probably an information source for Armin
and AG

"Ex-monkey"  Aruba Girl yes

Fin 3/19/08 um ... what's this? date of fin's post?

Not Shango. when fin's AG/sim theory hit the forums
AG denied being shango ... fin was like WTF?

Search: Solaganier + genaruba

FWIW:
fin's early conclusions/about 18 months ago
were reinforced when he worked AG's geneaology
in more depth recently

fin is one of the most logical/dogged thinkers
I've ever encountered
so I still agree w/ his theory that AG = sim

I did start this post w/ FWIW ... LOL ...
since I know that AG = sim  = unpopular

sim posing as male = plausible deniability ...
said deniability being one component of fin's theory ...
going underground = change important details

June 28 2005 2:21 am Robalo33:
J’aime mieux passer les temps avec un femme comme vous Simian 
translation: I would rather spend time with a woman like you Simian.

AG said that her female cuz was ALE
and also said: all 4 cops that I know worked the case

perhaps the same could be said re ALE cuz:
(fe)male cuz = plausible deniability

everyone did a great job w/ fin's clues
but just barely missed his true intention

he also thought one of the doppelgangers
may have been AG's mom, since they live together
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

... In politics and espionage, deniability refers to the ability of a "powerful player" or actor to avoid "blowback" by secretly arranging for an action to be taken on their behalf by a third party—ostensibly unconnected with the major player ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plausible_deniability





Finngirl - thanks for the explanation.  Since that time, some of us have come up with the theory that another cousin, Armin, is Simian and not AG.  Is there possibly a fourth cousin in that group who Finbar wanted us to look at?  Is there anyone else involved with Natalee's disappearance that could be part of that family tree and someone that Simian would want to protect?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 28, 2008, 04:25:24 PM
my responses in blue

Last March, Finbar popped in with some information.  I have no idea where Finbar got his information, but he gave us some clues that did pan out.  He told us that we would find the 5th suspect in the Solognier/Croes family tree.  Through this, we discovered that Rufo Solognier was Steve Croes' uncle/neighbor` and that Steve Croes was in that family tree. Are Freddy and Ernesto also in that family tree some place?  Finbar never told us that Steve was actually the 5th.  Is Freddy's biological father in that tree?  At that time, we hadn't linked Armin Solognier to Simian.

Finbar also gave us these clues....

"...Frenchman...." Solognier yes

"Blue blood...." Armin Solognier's claim that Simian was a blue blood
yes, altho fin would disagree that sim = Armin

"Cousins"  Armin, Steve, anyone else? AG

"Crows" finspeak for Croes ... AG/Steve Croes = cousins
 
"South American"  Venezuela? grandmother

"Curacao" grandmother

"grandmother"  I think this is Steve's grandmother and Rufo Solognier's mother-in-law
and related to AG as well

"Insurance" AG worked in gov't insurance bureau

"Blogs" AG was most prolific aruban blogger/summer '05
in terms of total posts/forum memberships

"ALE"  Rufo is the retired ALE Chief and probably an information source for Armin
and AG

"Ex-monkey"  Aruba Girl yes

Fin 3/19/08 um ... what's this? date of fin's post?

Not Shango. when fin's AG/sim theory hit the forums
AG denied being shango ... fin was like WTF?

Search: Solaganier + genaruba

FWIW:
fin's early conclusions/about 18 months ago
were reinforced when he worked AG's geneaology
in more depth recently

fin is one of the most logical/dogged thinkers
I've ever encountered
so I still agree w/ his theory that AG = sim

I did start this post w/ FWIW ... LOL ...
since I know that AG = sim  = unpopular

sim posing as male = plausible deniability ...
said deniability being one component of fin's theory ...
going underground = change important details

June 28 2005 2:21 am Robalo33:
J’aime mieux passer les temps avec un femme comme vous Simian 
translation: I would rather spend time with a woman like you Simian.

AG said that her female cuz was ALE
and also said: all 4 cops that I know worked the case

perhaps the same could be said re ALE cuz:
(fe)male cuz = plausible deniability

everyone did a great job w/ fin's clues
but just barely missed his true intention

he also thought one of the doppelgangers
may have been AG's mom, since they live together
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

... In politics and espionage, deniability refers to the ability of a "powerful player" or actor to avoid "blowback" by secretly arranging for an action to be taken on their behalf by a third party—ostensibly unconnected with the major player ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plausible_deniability






Finngirl - I guess this means that Finbar does feel that Steve Croes is the 5th suspect.  Do you know why he feels that Steve was the fifth one arrested?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: finngirl on June 28, 2008, 04:55:43 PM
Finngirl - I guess this means that Finbar does feel that Steve Croes is the 5th suspect.  Do you know why he feels that Steve was the fifth one arrested?

I think I can safely say that fin was
definitely looking in Steve's direction

but I think fin left just as the 5th suspect angle
was coming into its current heavy rotation,
so to speak

ie: fin was focused on Steve ...
but Steve's spot in the lineup wasn't the biggest factor

fin, do you agree?

hellllllooooo?




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: finngirl on June 28, 2008, 04:59:57 PM

a few days ago I posted re the quarry search
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

Mon June 27, 2005
4:00 am shango:
Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon with his 12:30 posting.


there are late-morning reports that 2 search dogs have "hit"

5 hour break: no sim/no shango ...
then genuine sim interspersed w/ poser sim:

9:13 am simian:
Lack of evidence is not proof of innocence. The cowboys are looking everywhere, but the land and waters hold many secrets. The Babylonians need to keep an eye on the cowboys. The process muct be protected. The ravers need to be pinched.


etc/etc ...
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

what I meant to do/neglected to do
was to highlight the "sim poser" posts,
altho ... today I can't find the list

also, one labeled as fake makes much sense
in the context of the conversation ...
ie: sim is being impersonated, yet this one is fake?

June 27, 2005
I have not left. I do not want to be copied however and would like to stay and speak.


also, I've seen conversation in the last few pages
re fake posts from the time of the retracted confession/june 10
and the fakes I posted are from about three weeks later

does anyone have the "fake list" or know where it is?
TIA



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: finngirl on June 28, 2008, 05:16:07 PM
Finngirl - thanks for the explanation.  Since that time, some of us have come up with the theory that another cousin, Armin, is Simian and not AG.  Is there possibly a fourth cousin in that group who Finbar wanted us to look at?  Is there anyone else involved with Natalee's disappearance that could be part of that family tree and someone that Simian would want to protect?

no, because fin's focus was on AG ...
which is why he used her geneaology links

altho he was also fond of saying that
one could not sling a Yoruban priest w/o hitting a Croes ...
Teresa/Mariaine/Rudy/etc ... ?

 :wink:



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Blonde on June 28, 2008, 05:47:49 PM
fin is one of the most logical/dogged thinkers
I've ever encountered...

Me too


Some people have huge amounts of information because they have a type of photographic memory. ... Einstein said most people can be a genius if they are willing, and they have a large enought head and ears to hold all of this info. I think Finbar does.
 
Finbar is  also very funny he gave me this picture of himself he said he was the better looking one, the one with out the drawl.


(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/Fun%20stuff/huh.jpg)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Blonde on June 28, 2008, 05:52:27 PM
Finbar I miss your brain. ::MonkeyCool::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: vms on June 28, 2008, 05:53:04 PM
GUILTY PLEASURES LAUNCH PARTY AT AERO BAR

Information
Event Info Host: JOSHUA MENENDEZ, PICO, ERICA FRESHMEN, ERNESTO ARAMBATZIS, RICK SARILE AND 
Type: Party - Club Party
Time and Place Start Time: Thursday, July 3, 2008 at 10:00pm
End Time: Friday, July 4, 2008 at 5:00am
Location: AERO BAR
Street: 247 23RD ST
City/Town: Miami Beach, FL

http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=17461908655


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 28, 2008, 07:37:28 PM
So, Ernesto went to school in Bradenton, but listed his hometown as Porlamar, Venezuela.  Maybe he didn't spend much time on Aruba.  Freddy might have only been on Aruba for a few years, himself.  If Urine said that Freddy spoke terrible English and didn't undertand Pap, then that means Freddy speaks Spanish.  Mum is right.  Would that also mean that Ernesto most likely speaks Spanish and he probably wouldn't realize it if someone insulted him in Pap?  Who paid for Ernesto's tuition at Bradenton and why didn't Freddy get the same deal?  I wonder if Ernesto and/or Freddy are related to the Mansurs who also have interests in that part of Venezuela. Could Lillian be a cousin or the mother of one or two of their illegitimate kids? 

SS…Joran said that Freddy ONLY spoke Pap. Spanish is the language of Venezuela, no Pap anywhere that I could find! Dutch is taught in Aruban schools, as is English…so what nationality would that make Freddy, Joran’s light skinned Latino friend?

I would assume that Ernesto speaks English and Spanish. If he did in fact do courses through Bradenton Prep,he could have learnt English. I came up empty on the accredited schools in Venezuela tied to Bradenton Prep. I would think this would still be expensive, but really do not know. I don’t know if Ernesto is from Porlamar, or if he just went to school there. It is on Isla Margarita.

Lilian was born in Aruba, according to the Chamber records that vms posted the other day. All the Arambatzis, that were found were listed in the Arambatzis thread. It is a Greek name, and that had a lot to do with my connections.

I can’t make a connection between Ernesto and Freddy, and it becomes even more confusing when you add the Zedan and Rodriguez. I would love for some-one to find another path or something that was overlooked...maybe then the pieces would fit! Will keep plodding away at it though!

Freddy stated that he was from Maracaibo, on a site that vms posted with the pic of Ghis. The Mansur family have ties to Maracaibo, Caracus and 2 other places in Venezuela. These places and Porlamar are not close to each other.

Thanks for the links Kermit to Porlamar and Bradenton Prep., and for all informative posts today everyone…


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: vms on June 28, 2008, 08:08:38 PM
FWIW

Caracas is listed as his hometown on facebook...


(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a398/vms58/Ernesto-Caracas.jpg)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 28, 2008, 08:11:26 PM
SS…I like your thoughts on the events of the day of the reported arrest. A diversion! So who could be that important? IIRC it was reported to be outside the capital, and I thought I recalled a poster saying it looked like the same house that Joran was arrested from on the 6/9.  So who has a similar looking house, or who could have been at Joran’s house?

Finngirl…Since you have a great memory and seem to be able to locate the posts relevant to dates, do you recall what was happening in the days prior to July 15th.?  I have been reading Mirian’s posts and they seem to be pointing directly at Freddy.

I am wondering why some-one like Tommy Pooch would insert himself into the case! Is it a coincidence that Ernesto Arambatzis was inserted later on?

Again, Thanks for bringing FP posts over, I seem to be stuck on one thread and haven’t got past it…Any info you can share on Checkme, Anbennett, Vanessa or any others FP posters would be appreciated…TIA

Vms...Thanks on Caracus...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 28, 2008, 09:30:53 PM
So, Ernesto went to school in Bradenton, but listed his hometown as Porlamar, Venezuela.  Maybe he didn't spend much time on Aruba.  Freddy might have only been on Aruba for a few years, himself.  If Urine said that Freddy spoke terrible English and didn't undertand Pap, then that means Freddy speaks Spanish.  Mum is right.  Would that also mean that Ernesto most likely speaks Spanish and he probably wouldn't realize it if someone insulted him in Pap?  Who paid for Ernesto's tuition at Bradenton and why didn't Freddy get the same deal?  I wonder if Ernesto and/or Freddy are related to the Mansurs who also have interests in that part of Venezuela. Could Lillian be a cousin or the mother of one or two of their illegitimate kids? 

SS…Joran said that Freddy ONLY spoke Pap. Spanish is the language of Venezuela, no Pap anywhere that I could find! Dutch is taught in Aruban schools, as is English…so what nationality would that make Freddy, Joran’s light skinned Latino friend?

I would assume that Ernesto speaks English and Spanish. If he did in fact do courses through Bradenton Prep,he could have learnt English. I came up empty on the accredited schools in Venezuela tied to Bradenton Prep. I would think this would still be expensive, but really do not know. I don’t know if Ernesto is from Porlamar, or if he just went to school there. It is on Isla Margarita.

Lilian was born in Aruba, according to the Chamber records that vms posted the other day. All the Arambatzis, that were found were listed in the Arambatzis thread. It is a Greek name, and that had a lot to do with my connections.

I can’t make a connection between Ernesto and Freddy, and it becomes even more confusing when you add the Zedan and Rodriguez. I would love for some-one to find another path or something that was overlooked...maybe then the pieces would fit! Will keep plodding away at it though!

Freddy stated that he was from Maracaibo, on a site that vms posted with the pic of Ghis. The Mansur family have ties to Maracaibo, Caracus and 2 other places in Venezuela. These places and Porlamar are not close to each other.

Thanks for the links Kermit to Porlamar and Bradenton Prep., and for all informative posts today everyone…




Mum - we need to have Kermit explain his post with the pictures.  I understood the post as Ernesto graduated from Bradenton and his hometown was Porlamar.  I don't know if Bradenton is tied to Venezuela, but I don't think so.  Their website said something about expanding to the Middle East somewhere, but I don't recall anything about Venezuela.  We need to grab Kermit for an explanation.  I think Ernesto was a boarding student in Bradenton.  From what I read on the website, the internet classes are for the kids enrolled at the school.  These schools pay a fee and courses can be available from other schools.  It's cheaper than hiring more teachers.  I didn't see anything about students from other locations being able to access classes at Bradenton.

So, I had it backwards.  Freddy only speaks Pap so that would put him in Aruba or Curacao, not in Venezuela.  If his mother was from Venezuela wouldn't he have learned some Spanish at home?  I can't understand no Dutch or English, especially if his mother is Dutch.  Who is Freddy and where is he from?

Your Freddy thread is great.  Nice work.

Does anyone know the names and ages of Jossy Mansur's children?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 28, 2008, 09:56:31 PM
Silverfox
Sending you email. 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 28, 2008, 11:20:38 PM
LaLa's sharpen your pencils because this one is out of the box.

The 5th suspect has an alibi so string. It has everybody baffled.  The 5th was a boyfriend from earlier in the week.  The party-goers said the 5th one was with them.  He was the host.  How could he have left.  A jealous boyfriend was at home with some friends.  He couldn’t have done it.  Sometimes friends will cover for each other.  He had to be let go.  I did not say an ex.  Girl goes out with cool and crazy guy in casino.  After a couple of days girl meets another boy in casino.  This makes first guy really mad.  So he confronts second boy.  However, the first guy has an airtight alibi.   Some friends say that they were at  home with him. Until morning.  He has an alibi. So tight. So tight.  The first guy has the motive.  The seond guy is scared sh*tless in a cell.  It was a simple party at his house.  He was “the whole time”.

In light of what we now know about Joran’s sexual activities and considering that we identified JR and JC as party-goers several months ago, this story might not be about jealousy over a girl.  What if it is jealousy between two guys?   The first guy almost has to be older and has his own house.  We originally thought LVR, but LVR wouldn’t be having a romance with his half brother.  What young kid could have a party on a school night where his friends stayed until morning?  What if Natalee just hung out with a guy she met in the casino for some fun and then a few days later met up with Joran.  Guy number one is attracted to Joran and gets mad because Joran was with Natalee when he arrived at the Matty Apts. - so something bad happened to Natalee.  He was jealous of Natalee.  Who besides Guido might have had a romance with Joran? Guido didn’t have his own house – he was still in school.  Joran’s friends didn’t live in Oranjestadt.   Who had a house where friends could party and stay all night?  One of JC’s friends is Davin.  JC had his own house and his gay friends would cover for him and say they stayed all night.  JR could even say that she was at his party because they’re friends and he’s her boss.  Who’s going to doubt the madame when she offers a tight alibi for him?  This guy didn’t stay in jail at all because his alibi was so tight.  They had to let him go.  Who said the alibi played for the Sloots?  Was JC the 5th?  Did JR set up the car chase that morning as a diversion because her sources told her that ALE was coming to arrest JC and she had to protect him from the media?  It wasn’t a BonDia reporter that looked like an idiot in the end.  Davin is JC's friend who helped his buddy dispose of Natalee.  JR owns the tourist boat with the banana boat behind it.  Davin could easily have left for Holland the next morning and he has recently moved to New Zealand.  Didn’t Patrick say that he had left Holland?  When the suspect was arrested on the 11th, he was described as being in his 20s - not a 17 year old kid.  JC is now 34.  The 5th was a boyfriend from earlier in the week, but not a boyfriend of Natalee - a boyfriend of Joran.  Natalee met a guy and then a boy.  The first one was not a boy like Joran.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on June 29, 2008, 12:15:03 AM
FWIW

Caracas is listed as his hometown on facebook...


(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a398/vms58/Ernesto-Caracas.jpg)

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8324495619079239444&q=source:008846888706825669709&hl=en

 at 15 seconds.

Is this the same person?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Observer on June 29, 2008, 12:31:16 AM

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8324495619079239444&q=source:008846888706825669709&hl=en

 at 15 seconds.

Is this the same person?

I do not think that is Ernesto..But he does resemble Michael Dompig.MO

(http://img380.imageshack.us/img380/7399/blonde1br6.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: finngirl on June 29, 2008, 02:42:34 AM

Mum: not sure what you're looking for ...
grabbed some highlights from worldjournier timeline
http://members.aol.com/worldJOURNIER/NATALEE/NATALEEtimeline.html

On 7-6 CNN reported:
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: … Developments in the Natalee Holloway investigation. Can eyewitnesses link a car owned by the van der Sloot family to the beach where Natalee disappeared? Reaction ahead from Natalee's mother and stepfather.
(CNN did not report further on NATALEE during that segment)
_ _ _

On 7-6 Senator SHELBY stated that the Dutch Ambassador to the U.S. has suggested that SHELBY get the U.S. Navy deep diving team involved in the search. SHELBY said he has written the U.S. Secretary of the Navy for that help.
_ _ _

On 7-6 FOX News GRETA VAN SUSTEREN reported that she spoke with DEEPAK in his bedroom and he claimed to her that he and JORAN are no longer friends because JORAN has made 14 different written and signed statements implicating DEEPAK. GRETA reported that she saw no computer in his bedroom, and he told her that the ARUBAN Police still have it. GRETA reported that DEEPAK  claimed to her that while he was in jail he was shown Prime JORAN's written and signed statements by interrogators and he told GRETA that “he‘s trying to put me into it“. GRETA did not interview SATISH.
_ _ _

On 7-6 MSNBC reported:
JOE SCARBOROUGH, HOST: Tonight's top headline: outrage in Aruba, as protesters target Natalee Holloway's mother.
_ _ _

On 7-7 it was reported that the Hixon, Tennessee-based, “Tennessee Search and Rescue Dog Association” team of 3 divers, a search dog and her handler were requested by Aruban officials to help in the search.

The Chattanooga-based search team is expected to assist in the Holloway investigation for six days. Divers Dale Hicks and John Scruggs are experts in collecting evidence during dives. Lisa Canfield said authorities in Aruba contacted them because they believe the team's nationally certified canine could help.
_ _ _

On July 8-12, 2005, VideoRay was invited by the Florida State University Underwater Crime Scene Investigation team to assist them in the search for Natalee Holloway in Aruba in underwater areas that have been otherwise inaccessible to search teams that were already there. These locations included a shoreline cave, a lagoon and a quarry. Texas EquuSearch is the organization that is leading the search effort.
_ _ _

On 7-8 BETH HOLLOWAY-TWITTY gave an apology to the ARUBANs via the media.
_ _ _
 
On 7-8 it was announced that 3 judges will hold appeal hearings on 7-12 to either free or retain JORAN, and to take back into custody DEEPAK and SATISH.
_ _ _

On 7-8 “Holiday Inn” security guard SOLVERT RENESKA gave statement to ALE.
_ _ _

On 7-8 the “National Enquirer” reported:
DESPERATE LAST CRY FOR HELP THAT COULD TRAP ARUBA KILLERS
A desperate last phone call from missing Natalee Holloway could provide police with a vital link to the killers in the Aruba murder case. The National Enquirer has discovered what may have been a last cry for help by the 18-year-old honors student.

Shortly after she was last seen alive, she left a message on a close friend's cell phone. Chillingly, a sinister male voice is heard in the background asking Natalee: "Are you calling home?"

An insider in the investigation said: "Her friend believes it could have been the last call from Natalee, who was in trouble and desperate for help."
_ _ _

In a stunning development on July 4, two of the three suspects in the case — brothers Deepak Kalpoe, 21, and Katish Kalpoe, 18 — were released from custody. The prime suspect, Joran van der Sloot, 17, was ordered to be detained for 60 more days for continued interrogation.

On 7-9 PAT HURLEY wrote:
The Heart Of The Natalee Holloway Case: Joran's Timeline And Lies

At the heart of this mystery lies two facts that are intriguing....

First, Joran van der Sloot has continually changed his story since leaving the Carlos and Charlie's with Natalee Holloway. Secondly, it is documented that the Kalpoe brothers dropped he and Natalee off at 1:30 a.m. He text messaged them at 2:15 a.m. asking for a ride home. Forty minutes later he texts them again and tells them he is home. Since he has lied constantly about his story, there is reason to believe he is lying to them when he sends the message that he is "home." If he indeed IS home, then he either handed Natalee off to someone else or she met her fate after he left making him the unluckiest schmuck on the planet. There was no time for a teenage boy to kill a human being by himself and get rid of her body on a beach near the Marriott in...forty minutes.

If he was not at home then, he sent the text message to cover his timeline. This would have given him and whoever picked him up TIME to dispose of Natalee's body. In that case, the mystery shifts to...who would Joran call if he was in big trouble? The answer is, either his friends or his dad.
_ _ _

On 7-11 DUTCH news-sourced “Expatica” reported:
Dutch Air Force ends Holloway search
AMSTERDAM — Three F-16 fighter jets are to return to base in the Netherlands after being withdrawn from the increasingly-frustrating search for missing US teen Natalee Holloway.
_ _ _

From her detailed journal, BETH stated that on 7-11 BETH had a meeting with ARUBA Prosecutor KARIN JANSSEN where JANSSEN said that ARUBAN Police have documented records that JORAN made a cellular phone call and text-messaged a message to DEEPAK's computer at his home at 3:30 AM on 5-30. JORAN’s 3:30 AM text-message simply was “Thanks. I’m home.” JANSSEN also told BETH that there was an 8-and-a-half minute call between JORAN's cel phone DEEPAK's cel phone--the longest call ever recorded between the two boys' phones.
_ _ _

On 7-11 the ST. MAARTEN “Daily Herald” reported:
Court hears appeals in missing girl probe
ARUBA--The Court heard five appeals on Tuesday against decisions of the examining judge in the disappearance of US teenager Natalee Holloway in Aruba, with the rulings scheduled for Thursday afternoon.

The appeals include four from the prosecution, of which two are against the release of the Kalpoe bothers. The other two are against lifting restrictions for the only suspect still detained, Joran, including admitting his lawyers to interrogation sessions.

Van der Sloot in turn is appealing the decision to prolong his detention. He admits he was left alone with the girl at Fishermen’s Hut by the two brothers before she vanished, but says he left her there when one of the brothers picked him up later, something they both deny doing.
_ _ _

On 7-11 FOX News reported:
GRETA VAN SUSTEREN: Some explosive new details are emerging about the night Natalee Holloway disappeared. The Aruban newspaper Diario broke the news on their front page on Monday. Joining us live from Aruba with the inside scoop is Diario's managing editor, Jossy Mansur.

VAN SUSTEREN: Jossy, let me get straight to the main thing that struck everybody reading that article today, that Joran van der Sloot claimed to the police to have buried Natalee. Is that right?

JOSSY MANSUR, DIARIO MANAGING EDITOR: That's correct, Greta. That happened on the second day of interrogations.

VAN SUSTEREN: Do you know when he supposedly made that statement to the police? Was it early on in his detention, or even before his detention or later?

MANSUR: No, it was when they had let them free. And when he came back, they (INAUDIBLE) him in as a suspect. On the second day of that detention, he broke down completely. He cried, and he admitted to the police, he confessed to the police that, we buried Natalee.

VAN SUSTEREN: Did he say where he'd buried Natalee?

MANSUR: He gave them indications. They put him in a police car. They brought him over here to the north of the Marriott Hotel, and he pointed towards some indistinct area by the fishermen's huts. Those are huts that the fishermen use them to guard their equipment, their nets, their knives, whatever they use in fishing.
_ _ _

On 7-12 PAUL REYNOLDS told MSNBC, “I know that my sister had a meeting with the FBI June 10, Friday. And from that meeting, she became convinced that Natalee was no longer alive. She called her mother and told her that. And our family was—was—began the grieving process. You know, we were told the report would come out the next day. Later that night, we saw the reports that confessions had been made, that something bad had happened. Shortly thereafter, it was retracted. The next morning, there was a report that said Natalee was confirmed dead. And these reports came from the deputy commissioner. They came from the spokesperson from the Ministry of Justice. And then, all of a sudden, these statements and these confessions just disappeared.” “I am not aware of any follow-up information. You know, this seemed to disappear from sight, these confessions did. At the time, we thought that because the investigation is kept secret, we thought it was ongoing, and maybe they just didn't want to release it officially at that time. But, as we see that the appeals, the hearings are showing there's no evidence, but yet we have these confessions, it doesn't make any sense. It's as if they are being hidden or taken away.”
_ _ _

On 7-12 Prosecutor KARIN JANSSEN also presented evidence to the judge from prosecutors, seeking to overturn an order allowing van der SLOOT's father to visit his son while he's in custody (this was reported to be the fourth appeal by the prosecutors to block PAULUS from interacting with JORAN ).
_ _ _

On 7-12 MSNBC reported:
SCARBOROUGH: You are looking at pictures of Joran van der Sloot. He's in the back seat of a Police car with his head down, leaving the Aruban courthouse. Obviously, Aruba and America focused on this young man, the key suspect in the case.

ANITA VAN DER SLOOT: Joran is a 17-year-old teenager. He is a fantastic tall guy. He's a sporter. He plays tennis on the island, soccer, volley ball, softball. He is a boy who will come out of his bed and give his mom a hug. And, hi mom. How are you? Have a nice day. He is a very warm young boy.

SCARBOROUGH: What has he told you about Natalee?

VAN DER SLOOT: He hasn't told me anything, because, on the Monday, he went to school, like any normal boy. And he wasn't aware of—he was totally surprised when the Police asked him to come to the—or picked him up for interrogation. He was totally surprised. He really thought that the girl would be safe in the hotel and there was no reason to talk about her at all.

SCARBOROUGH: You know, there are a lot of parents, obviously, that obviously would never want to be in this sort of situation. But if you are in this sort of situation, what do you, what do your husband tell your son to get him through these difficult times?

VAN DER SLOOT: You know, we have three children, two in teenage ages.

And we always tell the kids to tell the truth, to—and Joran is not a—he is a good child, but he is, of course, not a model child, because he has his mistakes. And he cheated, and he kicks his brothers, and he does things any ordinary 17-year-old teenager would do, but we always try to talk.

We are a very close family. We spend a lot of time talking about problems in the world. We look at news. We see things happen that are evil and that are wrong, and we warn the kids about drugs, about alcohol, the consequences that are there. Throughout the education at the international school, a lot of time is spent there, too, to make the kids conscious about all kind of risks they can take or not—they cannot take, and about responsibility, about respect for others.

We are living on a multicultural island, and we always try to raise the kids with—see what's in the heart of people. Don't focus on the outside. Listen to people. Be respectful.

SCARBOROUGH: Right.

VAN DER SLOOT: If they go out, be careful. Don't go out alone.

Always go with friends. Be aware that things can happen.
_ _ _

On 7-12 “Riehl World View” blog identity “Lago girl” reported:
I am very frustrated that the FSU forensic divers never searched Boca Mahos...they could have found evidence of Natalee Holloway there...I am certain of it.

Now who will do that job? My childhood friends who used to skin dive and spearfish in there are way beyond the task, now.

So difficult to be so far away and a voice in the wilderness...no one has answered my emails to Greta, Texas Equusearch, MSNBC, Aruba Today.
I know that area of sea has to be the place they tossed the lifeless body of Natalee Holloway...or it has to be ruled out.

Someone in Aruba, please contact the Texas Equusearch Mr. Miller about the probability that a dead body would most likely be tossed over the cliff at Boca Mahos...the old garbage dump into the sea where the sharks were fed.
I was born in the Lago Hospital of the American oil refinery in Aruba and lived in the company town, Lago Colony (Seroe Colorado) all of my childhood and youth, until leaving for college in the States.

All of my Lago friends who grew up in Aruba, including the boys who loved nothing more than skin diving and spearfishing, swam all of those waters with only flippers, snorkle and mask and their trusty spearguns.
All of my Lago friends who grew up in Aruba, including the boys who loved nothing more than skin diving and spearfishing, swam all of those waters with only flippers, snorkle and mask and their trusty spearguns.

They all agree that by far, the fastest and easiest and surest way to dispose of a dead body would be to run over to Boca Mahos from Noord, drive up to the edge of the cliff and toss the body out into the crashing waves over the shear drop of the undercut cliff.

Look at Boca Mahos and the boys I grew up with jumping into the sea as teenagers...

This boca, cove, if you will, MUST be searched by the Navy Seals and the Florida State University forensic divers...or they will have missed the MOST LIKELY PLACE to dump a dead body to hide it forever.

If they dive and search that boca, they will find some traces of Natalee...I am sure...very very very sure.

All of my Aruba friends who know the island as well as I do, and beter, agree...dive in Boca Mahos...and you will find something...

…So, it is imperative that the modern day boys of the Navy and FSU go diving to see what they can find in Boca Mahos...the boys of Lago Colony would go, again, taking only photos, and leaving only bubbles...for they loved being in the sea more than anything in the life of a teenage lad lucky enough to be born and grow up in Aruba...nothing in our lives will ever be better than the childhoods we were granted by Fate...that our American and Dutch and British parents worked for Lago Oil and we lived in Aruba.

Please search Boca Mahos...that is the only place that makes any sense...

Sue Gravendijk
daughter of Arie Gravendijk, head cashier, Lago Oil and Transport Co., Ltd, Aruba “
Posted by: Lago girl | Tuesday, July 12, 2005 at 07:36 PM
_ _ _

On 7-12 the "Texas EquuSearch" team received an in-person tip from an ARUBAN man who gave them a specific location that needed to be searched on the north side of the island within “Arikok National Park” VERY CLOSE TO THE SHARK-INFESTED “BACO MAHOS” GARBAGE DUMP SITE. When the team got there, about 100’ from the road they found an open 4’ deep and 6’ long hole that TIM MILLER stated, “certainly looks like a grave site that was possibly dug up.” TIM MILLER also said something “definitely was buried,” the hole was “manmade, remote, had easy access yet hard to see. Perfect.”
_ _ _

On 7-13 TITO LACLE reported to FOX News that he learned from one of the suspect's attorneys that there is evidence consisting of text-messages sent after 5-31 between one of the KALPOEs to friends (not JORAN) in the form of an Internet chat. LACLE reported that some of the F-16 flyover evidence is in. (there is a rumor that the F-16s found suspicious tire tracks at a remote location). LACLE also said that JORAN has 3 lawyers. LACLE reported that van der SLOOT’s lawyers are communicating with one or both of the KALPOE attorneys.
_ _ _

On 7-13 ARLENE ELLIS-SCHIPPER, member of the ARUBA “STRATEGIC COMMUNICATIONS TASK FORCE,” claimed to FOX News that the evidence against Prime Murder Suspect JORAN VAN DER SLOOT was, “thin, thin, thin” and he may be freed.
_ _ _

“East Texas Canine Search and Rescue” left ARUBA on 7-13.
_ _ _

On 7-13 FOX News GRETA VAN SUSTEREN wrote in her “Gretawire“ blog, “Feeling a bit "land-locked" Tuesday [7-12], I made a bunch of phone calls to Aruba to get more information. I spoke briefly — very briefly – with Police commissioner Jan van der Straten. He was not very "chatty" when I identified myself as part of the media, but he was polite... very polite. Getting information out of the Police commissioner is a bit like "pulling teeth," but when I confronted him about the report in the Aruban paper (that Joran allegedly said in an interrogation that he buried Natalee), he said, "I don't recognize it." I replied, "Does that mean it did not happen?" He responded, "I don't recognize it." Thinking he had not heard me, I tried again and he again said, "I don't recognize it." I then said, "Would you know if it had happened that way? Would you know if Joran said in an interrogation that he buried Natalee?" He then responded, "Yes." Our conversation ended there. So... I report what I hear, but leave it to you to decide how much weight to give the newspaper article and the commissioner's remarks. The Aruban paper claims to have good sources. Tuesday night the managing editor of the paper was on our show and he insists his information is good. I also reached the chief prosecutor on the phone yesterday. She tried to get me off the phone as fast as she could (I would not describe her as "chatty.") I asked her a series of questions about procedure — and learned that she did not argue the case yesterday since it is an appeal. Her senior handles appeals. The judges who will decide the detention issues for all three are from a neighboring island —- and there are three judges, not one, who make this decision.”
_ _ _

On 7-14 FOX News GRETA VAN SUSTEREN responded to an emailer and wrote in her “Gretawire” blog:
E-mail No. 2
Is there any truth to the article in The National Enquirer about Natalee calling a friend on her cell phone that last night?
Virginia Van Delist

ANSWER: Here is what I know about a phone call: Apparently a friend of Natalee's received a call to his voice mail/answering machine. There was background noise and then someone said something like, "Are you calling home?" As far as I know the phones were then disconnected and nothing else was recorded. I do not know if that call was from Natalee or from her cell phone or one she may have used.

Incidentally, not all USA cell phone service works in Aruba. My AT&T cell phone works there, but my Verizon cell phone does not. And yes — I know — what kind of person has two cell phones? It is a bit nutty but I have two cell phones with different service. Why? For the very reason that some times I am in areas where service is limited.

One other thing about the phone call — it is not clear when it was received by the person receiving the message.
_ _ _

On 7-14 the 3 appeals judges agreed that JORAN should remain in custody until his next hearing on 9-2. (Sometime before 7-12 the charges were changed to “serious suspicion of murder, manslaughter or intentional containment with the death as consequence” of NATALEE, and DEEPAK and SATISH KALPOE should remain free. After the 3 judges appeals rulings on 7-14, WERNET read a prepared statement and stated in part, “…there is ‘serious suspicion’to keep Joran van der S. in custody” …and…

"He was in her company and gave varying statements about what happened then and afterwards" The ruling also said that JORAN had recently changed his account of the night of HOLLOWAY's disappearance and authorities need time to investigate the new version.
_ _ _

TITO LACLE reported to FOX News on July 19, 2005 that on July 14, 2005 the prosecutors requested saliva from JORAN VAN DER SLOOT, DEEPAK and SATISH but all they refused to provide their sample.
_ _ _

On 7-14 DILMA ARENDS reported that evidence in the form of cellular phone tracking records of JORAN pinpoint that he did make a 4:00 AM cellular phone call. ARENDS also alluded that the forensics may have pinpointed precisely from where JORAN placed the cellular phone call. ARENDS also said that at 4:00 AM DEEPAK was home, but after receiving the cellular phone call he left his home and then went to the Marriott Hotel location.
_ _ _

On 7-14 SATISH's lawyer said that there was “new evidence” presented 7-12 by the prosecutor, but that “new evidence” was not relevant to SATISH and the “new evidence” was “probably not” relevant to JORAN.
_ _ _

On 7-14 ELLIS-SCHIPPER, member of the ARUBA “STRATEGIC COMMUNICATIONS TASK FORCE,” stated to FOX News that apparently the judges agree that the actions by JORAN are “evidently deceitful” and because JORAN was retained under arrest that the judges think there “has to be a crime that has occurred against NATALEE.”
_ _ _

On 7-14 FOX News GERALDO RIVERA reported that “the fishermen witnesses near the Marriott Hotel say the kids were nowhere near the beach” in the morning hours of 5-30. RIVERA mentioned that van der STRATEN will be retiring in August 2005.
_ _ _

On 7-14 TITO LACLE reported to FOX News that his investigation, which included he and his colleagues speaking with JORAN's classmates about JORAN’s character, reveals that JORAN is a “different person” by day than he is at night. LACLE claims that JORAN has “different attitudes, depending on who he is with,” that JORAN is “short-tempered,” and that on 5-30 JORAN had a noticeably blackened eye when he went to school--with JORAN claiming that he received the blackened eye in a fight with his friends while he was at "Carlos 'n Charlie's" after midnight on 5-29.
_ _ _

On 7-15 FOX News GRETA VAN SUSTEREN reported that she had spoken to the mother of a school student male witness about JORAN showing up at school the morning of 5-30 with a very noticeable bruise on his cheek.
_ _ _

On 7-15 BETH HOLLOWAY-TWITTY stated that an Aruban woman had called her said she just wanted to make sure that BETH knew that JORAN had a bruise on his face the morning of 5-30 at school.
_ _ _

On 7-15 TITO LACLE reported to FOX News that a colleague reporter had gone to JORAN ’s school on 6-9. When LACLE’s colleague asked about JORAN to a person at the school he was told, “Oh, you mean that boy with the bruise.”
_ _ _

On 7-15 FOX News GRETA VAN SUSTEREN stated that when she spoke to a Police official that day that “he gave me a wink and a nod“ that GRETA interpreted as the Police do not have enough evidence to prosecute a case.
_ _ _

On 7-15 CNN reported that the FBI has asked on more than one occasion to take a close look at what's been gathered so far, for example, statements made, interviews conducted, evidence collected, etc to try to give a fresh perspective to things. The FBI has been turned down on more than one occasion to get a look at this information. The FBI profile of NATALEE was provided ARUBAN investigators on one occasion. A Dutch profiler who has also been provided in on this case has offered advice, for example, on techniques in interviewing JORAN, and that advice has not been used, apparently.

ARUBAN government spokespeople and a spokesperson for the prosecutor's office were asked about not using FBI Experienced suggestions for interrogation. According to one ARUBAN source, the local rules don't allow the FBI, which is actively not participating but observing and assisting, to look at this information. According to the government spokesperson and the prosecutor's office, "They're assisting us. We're thinking about it. We're allowing them to do certain things, and not allowing them to do others."
_ _ _

BETH also stated that she found out 7-15 that the ARUBAN Police Investigators have never asked the DEA agent for a statement on what he witnessed and heard during the 5-31 early morning encounters between the TWITTYs and SLOOTs.
_ _ _

On 7-15 NADIRA RAMIREZ told FOX News she thinks NATALEE is still alive. She also said that the brothers are not “sporters,” so they “just drive around” when they go out driving NADIRA RAMIREZ “only on the weekends.”
_ _ _

On 7-15 ERIC SOEMERS took over as ARUBAN Police commissioner when van der STRATEN went on a pre-retirement “vacation.”
_ _ _

On 7-15 the “National Enquirer” reported:
HOW NATALEE WAS KILLED
Dutch teenager Joran van der Sloot confessed to his father that he dumped Natalee Holloway's body in shark-infested waters after she accidentally hit her head and drowned in a drug-induced stupor on an Aruban beach.

Dooley said the clerk at the clothing store told him that she and her husband are very good friends with Joran's dad, Paulus van der Sloot, and his wife, Anita. Her own son had attended school with Joran on the island and was a close pal.

The clerk told Dooley: "Joran told his father that he and Natalee had all been drinking and taking drugs at the nightclub. The father specifically mentioned they took Ecstasy. Joran told his father that when they left the club, they went to a beach on the island. Natalee was very ill and threw up several times.

"Then she fell and hit her head on something. Joran checked her and realized she was dead.

"Joran and others discussed an appropriate place to dump Natalee's body, a specific place where someone would disappear forever... a spot on the island where the waters are shark-infested."

Arubaans know the shark-feeding spot very well and directed a National Enquirer reporter to its location on the rugged north coast of the island, where the ocean pounds the rocks and few people live.

The water there is deep and murky and sits beneath a high cliff, far away from the beautiful beaches and posh hotel casinos on the island's southern side.
_ _ _

On 7-16 the Police took JORAN (and one of his attorneys) back to the stretch of beach near the Marriott Hotel, including the fishermen’s huts, as on 6-11 JORAN was reported to have confessed to Police interrogators that is where “WE buried NATALEE.” ARUBAN Police commissioner VAN DER STRATEN declined to provide further details, saying only that it was "part of the investigation." As JORAN returned to the polis car, he was filmed in handcuffs pounding the engine hood of the polis car. It was reported that the Police also took JORAN to the suspicious 6’ long and 4’ deep dug out hole excavated by “Texas EquuSearch” and 2 Aruban Policemen on 7-12, possibly to see his reaction to viewing the hole. Walking suspects through the reconstruction of a scene is common practice in Aruba, according to the prosecutor's office.
_ _ _

Despite the previously arranged appointment being cancelled, on 7-16 DAVE went to the prison to try and meet wth JORAN. When DAVE got there, PAULUS and his wife were also there waiting to go see JORAN. DAVE stated, "I had two pictures with me, one of Natalee and one of my 7-year-old daughter. I told him, 'I have two daughters. I know where one of them is, but not the other and I am coming to you and your son to try and find out some answers." DAVE asked PAULUS to ask JORAN if he wanted to speak with DAVE about NATALEE “eye to eye” and tell him about NATALEE and the night of 5-29/30. "I told him, 'I'm here and I want to meet him. If he says he's innocent, he can tell me that to my face,"' DAVE stated he and PAULUS spoke for several minutes. DAVE asked PAULUS if DAVE could meet with JORAN. PAULUS told DAVE, “It’s not possible. It’s too late for that.“ At the end of the brief, initial prison meeting DAVE gave to PAULUS 3 books (a Bible, The Purpose Driven Life by Rick Warren and Living in the Moment by Mary Ann Morgan) to give to JORAN.

After about an hour, PAULUS and ANITA re-emerged from the prison and PAULUS and DAVE were filmed shaking hands and they then spoke. (In DAVE’s book, he wrote that he held VAN DER SLOOT’s handshake continuously for at least 30 minutes). JORAN, according to PAULUS, claimed he did want to meet with DAVE, but PAULUS stated to DAVE: “that will not happen until the investigation is over.” ANITA indicated that she thought JORAN should speak to DAVE.

DAVE stated that PAULUS kept referring to JORAN as the “child,” and he told DAVE he would do anything for his child. DAVE stated that ANITA told him she thinks the alcohol consumption age in ARUBA is 16.

Despite PAULUS' dodging questions, DAVE stated, he may have hit on something vital near the end of their conversation. "I told him, 'I am a forgiving person. If he is innocent, he needs to profess his innocence to me. If an accident happened on this, I can live with that. And about that time, his eyes watered and his voice quivered and he said, 'I've got to do everything I can to protect my son."'



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: finngirl on June 29, 2008, 02:47:56 AM
Some people have huge amounts of information because they have a type of photographic memory. ... Einstein said most people can be a genius if they are willing, and they have a large enough head and ears to hold all of this info. I think Finbar does.
 
Finbar is also very funny he gave me this picture of himself, he said he was the better looking one, the one without the drawl.


(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/Fun%20stuff/huh.jpg)

omigod, I remember that, ROFL

maybe it's the lighting ...
but they're both hotties, IMO

 :wink:



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Rob on June 29, 2008, 09:21:22 AM
Name: John Charles Croes
Date: 28 June 2005
Pages: 3
Writer/Initiator: Johny Erasmus / Zoraida De Cuba
Description: Chat traffic

(http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p149/Morgan2112_2006/ZoraidadeCubaoduber2.jpg)

Possible myspace - *I'm not sure this is right*
http://us.profile.myspace.cn/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=227987194




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Rob on June 29, 2008, 09:21:58 AM
More "Music"

(http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p149/Morgan2112_2006/RUDYCROESPLAYSTHEACCORDING1.jpg)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 29, 2008, 09:26:51 AM
Good Morning!

Thanks Finn…heaps of info here, will need a month of Sundays to get through it all…From the Dr. Phil log…witness statements on cars between June 28th and July 6th.…two different ones…ah…the gray Toyota! One indication of an area by the Fisherman’s huts….and most of the rest are statements by Holiday Inn Security staff and a HI guest!  Sounds more like the vicinity of the Holiday Inn than the Fisherman’s Huts!

On 7-6 CNN reported:quoted by Finngirl
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: … Developments in the Natalee Holloway investigation. Can eyewitnesses link a car owned by the van der Sloot family to the beach where Natalee disappeared? Reaction ahead from Natalee's mother and stepfather.
(CNN did not report further on NATALEE during that segment)
_ _ _


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Rob on June 29, 2008, 09:33:34 AM
More "Music"

(http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p149/Morgan2112_2006/HYROODUBER-GLORIAESTEBAN2.jpg)

http://www.gloriaestefan-italia.com/uk/englista.asp


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 29, 2008, 09:41:22 AM
Joran tells who Freddy's father is in his book...anyone have a copy?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 29, 2008, 09:41:25 AM
Does anyone remember a discussion that we all had back around March?  It involved the initials of the 5th suspect.  We thought it was SC involving Steve Cores, but there were some other letters included.  We were told that normally ALe only releases the first two initials in someone's name.  Does anyone remember that conversation and what the letters were?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 29, 2008, 09:48:13 AM
Does anyone remember a discussion that we all had back around March?  It involved the initials of the 5th suspect.  We thought it was SC involving Steve Cores, but there were some other letters included.  We were told that normally ALe only releases the first two initials in someone's name.  Does anyone remember that conversation and what the letters were?

I think that was a Caps discussion. We never really settled on anything with that one. LOL

The 5th suspect has to have a home that allows a party or get together on a Sunday night.  I don't think that would be Steve since he was supposed to be working guarding the Tattoo and he lived with gramma.  Jaime had to get up early next day and his parents were there too. Guido was in the casino until about 2 that morning.  So you are left with someone that has a house and had friends over...Paulus or Lorenzo...if Paulus was indeed gambling until 4 in the morning that leaves Lorenzo...unless there are others that we don't have details on whereabout yet.  Then again, Simian may have used the term "house" and "party" as metaphors for something else.  Just my thoughts. 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 29, 2008, 09:54:27 AM
Does anyone remember a discussion that we all had back around March?  It involved the initials of the 5th suspect.  We thought it was SC involving Steve Cores, but there were some other letters included.  We were told that normally ALe only releases the first two initials in someone's name.  Does anyone remember that conversation and what the letters were?

I think that was a Caps discussion. We never really settled on anything with that one. LOL

The 5th suspect has to have a home that allows a party or get together on a Sunday night.  I don't think that would be Steve since he was supposed to be working guarding the Tattoo and he lived with gramma.  Jaime had to get up early next day and his parents were there too. Guido was in the casino until about 2 that morning.  So you are left with someone that has a house and had friends over...Paulus or Lorenzo...if Paulus was indeed gambling until 4 in the morning that leaves Lorenzo...unless there are others that we don't have details on whereabout yet.  Then again, Simian may have used the term "house" and "party" as metaphors for something else.  Just my thoughts. 



JC has his own house and I think a J and a C were part of the letters in that discussion.  Was there also an A?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Rob on June 29, 2008, 09:54:58 AM
Mate/Deckhand

Education, Experience & Location
      
   
Resume ID:    106890
Location:    USA FL north miami beach
   
Education:    High school
Experience:    3 Years
        

View contact information
 
Resume
   
   Objective
working in mega yacth or large ship as security officer

Work Experience
Oscar Viqueira Canales


North Miami Beach, Florida 33160
canalisbodyguard@gmail.com


License CC 2006405
License G 2503924
License D 2512735


2007 Loss prevention officer for Tropical Supermarket#11 and # 4
2007 on call protective driver and bodyguard for the Mexican singer Paulina Rubio ,for the Cuban singer Albita Rodriguez, David Bisbal, the reggeton singer Miguelito, Lony and Tune, Alexander Pyres, Ana Carolina de Fonseca (ex miss Brazil).Personal bodyguard for Jorge Reynoso and the puertorican singer Noelia. June 19 to 25 2007 protective driver for the Mexican group RBD
2005,2006,2007, over 300 hours training with Mr. John Gardner, NRA Law Enforcement Instructor #136119411(Tactical Firearms Academy).
2005-2006 working for Star Guard Security .In this company I was supervisor, and Investigator.

2001-2004 working in Lagoon Tiki Bar and Marina in Sunny Isles beach, in this place I was on charge of the fuel dock, snack bar and grill, I have 4 employers under my responsibility. what happened here that he works at a snack bar?

1999 to 2001 self employers, working in different private Boat in Key West different assignment and freelance photographer, receive assignment from diferent's company's and private person's.

1998 receive 40 hours training from Dade County Medical Examiner
In Forensic Photography/Secret surveillance/Bomb Car Evidence Photography/Traffic Homicide

1997-1998 working in the south commander headquarter in miami, as cable tec intaler, in this position the job was the installations of all fiber-optic system and voice and data.

1996- 1997Security officer with GLOBLE SECURITY, in Key West international Airport .assigned to X-ray screen machine
Same time working for ELITE SECURITY KEY WEST, in different post, the Electric Power Plant and deferent’s commercial and residential locations around Key West

1994 to 1995 working for JOINT TASK FORCE 140
Guantamo Naval Base, Operation SEA SIGNAl.

Experience
Photojournalist for the J-3 M.I.S.T. (military information support team)
In Guantánamo naval base, Cuba 1994/1995.
Freelance Photographer for the Spain journalist: Jose Antonio Tamargo, agency EFE.
Frelance/assisten for the Japanese fashion Photographer KIbota Taczuma
Conference photographer for the Center of Security Policy of the
William B. Casey Institute of Washingon, DC
Publications in the Miami Herald. Photographer for diferent's companies in Florida.
Personal photographer for the Prime Minister of Aruba, Mr Nelson O. Oduber. (Whent travel in private to USA)



Education High School graduate 1983 in Havana, Cuba.
4 months CSI School Kaplan University
Languages Spanish, Italian and English
Computer skill: Microsoft office word, Adobe Photoshop
Digital Photography

More references upon request.

http://www.maritimejobs.com/ResumeShow.aspx?ResumeShow=106890


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 29, 2008, 09:55:54 AM
Jaime would need to be explored further.  I would love to know more details...have looked and we have very little to go with him.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Rob on June 29, 2008, 09:58:15 AM
<snip>

It was in this last period of government – in September 1999 – that the cabinet Eman II came forward with an audacious project that would bring new life into San Nicolas, a district to which traditionally many promises were made in election time while seldom anything came out of it. The project amounted to the construction of a super-modern racetrack at Seroe Colorado at the north coast. Businessman Carlo Mansur had invited the American Ralph Sanchez, owner of a racetrack in Florida, to design a similar racetrack for Aruba. The government supported this project with – again – a government guarantee. The project would attract world class motor races and would bring thousands of race fans as tourists to Aruba.

<snip>

http://www.historiadiaruba.aw/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=26&Itemid=40&lang=en


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 29, 2008, 10:07:59 AM
Jaime would need to be explored further.  I would love to know more details...have looked and we have very little to go with him.




Jaime and the Pimps were all in the process of being arrested or questioned.  They couldn't have provided an alibi so tight for him that they would have to let him go.  The alibi had to play for someone else and it had to be a powerful alibi.  John C's friends could alibi him because they weren't under suspicion.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Rob on June 29, 2008, 10:08:54 AM
<snipped>
That collaboration between bus companies, resorts and restaurants is what makes Aruba so perfect for incentive groups and conventions. Wichita is naturally very pleased about the signing of the first-ever Tax Information Exchange Agreement (TIEA) with the U.S.A. The documents were signed by the U.S. Treasury Secretary John Snow and the Prime Minister of Aruba Nelson Oduber. TIEA was designed to ensure an exchange of information regarding taxes, and it will help develop a close and cooperative relationship between Aruba and the United States as the pact also offers tax deductions to the group & meeting/incentives market doing business here. Headquartered in Florida where she also owns and operates a franchise of PRA Destination Management, Wichita reports she cross-promotes Aruba to many of her groups visiting her territory, from the Florida Keys to Orlando. Her daughter Maureen is at the helm at PRA, proudly walking in her mom's footsteps.

Incidentally, among Wichita's most notable accomplishments this year was the ISES, International Special Events Society convention. Members convened for a seminar at the Radisson Aruba Resort & Casino determined to improve their knowledge and skills. The educational program was put together by Wichita under the auspices of the Aruba Convention Bureau. Joining in for the duration of the seminar Executive Editor, Shari Lynn Rothstein, of BizBashFla, Florida's source for fresh news, ideas and resources for special events, meetings and business entertaining. Wichita extended a special invitation to the magazine to come to Aruba. Among the busy diva's future plans? She has new tricks up her sleeve. Wichita is developing special new products to entertain large groups, responding to the latest trends in the market. Stay tuned, her "Lounging In Aruba" party organized for her next client will be a first, a never before, a real guest-pleaser!

Story submitted by Rona Coster

cached page
http://tinyurl.com/3w2azr


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Rob on June 29, 2008, 10:14:45 AM
Does anyone remember a discussion that we all had back around March?  It involved the initials of the 5th suspect.  We thought it was SC involving Steve Cores, but there were some other letters included.  We were told that normally ALe only releases the first two initials in someone's name.  Does anyone remember that conversation and what the letters were?

I think that was a Caps discussion. We never really settled on anything with that one. LOL

The 5th suspect has to have a home that allows a party or get together on a Sunday night.  I don't think that would be Steve since he was supposed to be working guarding the Tattoo and he lived with gramma.  Jaime had to get up early next day and his parents were there too. Guido was in the casino until about 2 that morning.  So you are left with someone that has a house and had friends over...Paulus or Lorenzo...if Paulus was indeed gambling until 4 in the morning that leaves Lorenzo...unless there are others that we don't have details on whereabout yet.  Then again, Simian may have used the term "house" and "party" as metaphors for something else.  Just my thoughts. 

If it's Paulus (and I suspect it is) then the eye of God sees him at the table and establishes an alibi - however that same alibi is somewhat compromised when it is revealed that he is sitting next to the missing person and engaging her in conversation.

interesting that the one piece of video tape is somewhat obscured. As to mean - that piece of tape only establishes one point and not an overall alibi. What would the purpose be to only release a piece that throws more scrutiny in a person that has nothing to do with it? If he is there all nite (say until 4 am) then he is also in the vicinity of the area his son has placed himself and the missing person, Natalee.

catch 22


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Blonde on June 29, 2008, 10:17:45 AM
Does anyone remember a discussion that we all had back around March?  It involved the initials of the 5th suspect.  We thought it was SC involving Steve Cores, but there were some other letters included.  We were told that normally ALe only releases the first two initials in someone's name.  Does anyone remember that conversation and what the letters were?

This one
Filomena Garrido Croes (Mitchi as callname) uses her born last name on the son.

Son Name was Steve Garrido Croes Junior.

There is also Edward Croes who is the brother of Steve.

There is Evelin Croes who is married to a Wever.

Do you have a birthdate on S. G. C. J. in your research? The reason I was inclined to believe that Steve was related to Hendrik was because of the name given in MSM Seferino Gregory Croes. Did you come across that name in your research?
The mother and father's birthdates in your research indicate to me that they could also possibly be the grandparents of S. G. C. J. Young parents, young grandparents but possible.... To my knowledge the Steve Croes that we know as a suspect has never been identified as a "jr". Is it common to name someone Jr. when the father and the son's names are different?

Is there another Steve Garrido Croes that we don't know about? Maybe in jail?

I believe an extreme effort is being made to hide the name....WHY?

How did the media come up with Seferino Gregory Croes?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 29, 2008, 10:19:51 AM
Does anyone remember a discussion that we all had back around March?  It involved the initials of the 5th suspect.  We thought it was SC involving Steve Cores, but there were some other letters included.  We were told that normally ALe only releases the first two initials in someone's name.  Does anyone remember that conversation and what the letters were?

I think that was a Caps discussion. We never really settled on anything with that one. LOL

The 5th suspect has to have a home that allows a party or get together on a Sunday night.  I don't think that would be Steve since he was supposed to be working guarding the Tattoo and he lived with gramma.  Jaime had to get up early next day and his parents were there too. Guido was in the casino until about 2 that morning.  So you are left with someone that has a house and had friends over...Paulus or Lorenzo...if Paulus was indeed gambling until 4 in the morning that leaves Lorenzo...unless there are others that we don't have details on whereabout yet.  Then again, Simian may have used the term "house" and "party" as metaphors for something else.  Just my thoughts. 

If it's Paulus (and I suspect it is) then the eye of God sees him at the table and establishes an alibi - however that same alibi is somewhat compromised when it is revealed that he is sitting next to the missing person and engaging her in conversation.

interesting that the one piece of video tape is somewhat obscured. As to mean - that piece of tape only establishes one point and not an overall alibi. What would the purpose be to only release a piece that throws more scrutiny in a person that has nothing to do with it? If he is there all nite (say until 4 am) then he is also in the vicinity of the area his son has placed himself and the missing person, Natalee.

catch 22



I'm looking at Chemaly as Joran's boyfriend and the one who worked with Daury Davin.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 29, 2008, 10:29:31 AM
Does anyone remember a discussion that we all had back around March?  It involved the initials of the 5th suspect.  We thought it was SC involving Steve Cores, but there were some other letters included.  We were told that normally ALe only releases the first two initials in someone's name.  Does anyone remember that conversation and what the letters were?

This one
Filomena Garrido Croes (Mitchi as callname) uses her born last name on the son.

Son Name was Steve Garrido Croes Junior.

There is also Edward Croes who is the brother of Steve.

There is Evelin Croes who is married to a Wever.

Do you have a birthdate on S. G. C. J. in your research? The reason I was inclined to believe that Steve was related to Hendrik was because of the name given in MSM Seferino Gregory Croes. Did you come across that name in your research?
The mother and father's birthdates in your research indicate to me that they could also possibly be the grandparents of S. G. C. J. Young parents, young grandparents but possible.... To my knowledge the Steve Croes that we know as a suspect has never been identified as a "jr". Is it common to name someone Jr. when the father and the son's names are different?

Is there another Steve Garrido Croes that we don't know about? Maybe in jail?

I believe an extreme effort is being made to hide the name....WHY?

How did the media come up with Seferino Gregory Croes?




Could it have been JAC, Jr.  Where is CAPS when we need him?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 29, 2008, 10:37:28 AM
Does anyone remember a discussion that we all had back around March?  It involved the initials of the 5th suspect.  We thought it was SC involving Steve Cores, but there were some other letters included.  We were told that normally ALe only releases the first two initials in someone's name.  Does anyone remember that conversation and what the letters were?

I think that was a Caps discussion. We never really settled on anything with that one. LOL

The 5th suspect has to have a home that allows a party or get together on a Sunday night.  I don't think that would be Steve since he was supposed to be working guarding the Tattoo and he lived with gramma.  Jaime had to get up early next day and his parents were there too. Guido was in the casino until about 2 that morning.  So you are left with someone that has a house and had friends over...Paulus or Lorenzo...if Paulus was indeed gambling until 4 in the morning that leaves Lorenzo...unless there are others that we don't have details on whereabout yet.  Then again, Simian may have used the term "house" and "party" as metaphors for something else.  Just my thoughts. 

If it's Paulus (and I suspect it is) then the eye of God sees him at the table and establishes an alibi - however that same alibi is somewhat compromised when it is revealed that he is sitting next to the missing person and engaging her in conversation.

interesting that the one piece of video tape is somewhat obscured. As to mean - that piece of tape only establishes one point and not an overall alibi. What would the purpose be to only release a piece that throws more scrutiny in a person that has nothing to do with it? If he is there all nite (say until 4 am) then he is also in the vicinity of the area his son has placed himself and the missing person, Natalee.

catch 22



I'm looking at Chemaly as Joran's boyfriend and the one who worked with Daury Davin.



That didn't come out the way I wanted it to.  It should have said, worked on disposing of the body with Duary Daven.

Rob - remember the party-goers - Chemaly, Renfro, Arendsz, Briezen.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Blonde on June 29, 2008, 11:35:08 AM
SS do a search on Caps posts here at SM


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on June 29, 2008, 12:06:08 PM
LaLa's sharpen your pencils because this one is out of the box.

The 5th suspect has an alibi so string. It has everybody baffled.  The 5th was a boyfriend from earlier in the week.  The party-goers said the 5th one was with them.  He was the host.  How could he have left.  A jealous boyfriend was at home with some friends.  He couldn’t have done it.  Sometimes friends will cover for each other.  He had to be let go.  I did not say an ex.  Girl goes out with cool and crazy guy in casino.  After a couple of days girl meets another boy in casino.  This makes first guy really mad.  So he confronts second boy.  However, the first guy has an airtight alibi.   Some friends say that they were at  home with him. Until morning.  He has an alibi. So tight. So tight.  The first guy has the motive.  The seond guy is scared sh*tless in a cell.  It was a simple party at his house.  He was “the whole time”.

In light of what we now know about Joran’s sexual activities and considering that we identified JR and JC as party-goers several months ago, this story might not be about jealousy over a girl.  What if it is jealousy between two guys?   The first guy almost has to be older and has his own house.  We originally thought LVR, but LVR wouldn’t be having a romance with his half brother.  What young kid could have a party on a school night where his friends stayed until morning?  What if Natalee just hung out with a guy she met in the casino for some fun and then a few days later met up with Joran.  Guy number one is attracted to Joran and gets mad because Joran was with Natalee when he arrived at the Matty Apts. - so something bad happened to Natalee.  He was jealous of Natalee.  Who besides Guido might have had a romance with Joran? Guido didn’t have his own house – he was still in school.  Joran’s friends didn’t live in Oranjestadt.   Who had a house where friends could party and stay all night?  One of JC’s friends is Davin.  JC had his own house and his gay friends would cover for him and say they stayed all night.  JR could even say that she was at his party because they’re friends and he’s her boss.  Who’s going to doubt the madame when she offers a tight alibi for him?  This guy didn’t stay in jail at all because his alibi was so tight.  They had to let him go.  Who said the alibi played for the Sloots?  Was JC the 5th?  Did JR set up the car chase that morning as a diversion because her sources told her that ALE was coming to arrest JC and she had to protect him from the media?  It wasn’t a BonDia reporter that looked like an idiot in the end.  Davin is JC's friend who helped his buddy dispose of Natalee.  JR owns the tourist boat with the banana boat behind it.  Davin could easily have left for Holland the next morning and he has recently moved to New Zealand.  Didn’t Patrick say that he had left Holland?  When the suspect was arrested on the 11th, he was described as being in his 20s - not a 17 year old kid.  JC is now 34.  The 5th was a boyfriend from earlier in the week, but not a boyfriend of Natalee - a boyfriend of Joran.  Natalee met a guy and then a boy.  The first one was not a boy like Joran.




Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:26 pm
The alibi story is the almost the latest.
The latest is that there’s a gap in the time-line for the boys.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:09 pm
A scorned lover needs a motive? Drives some people to some crazy deeds.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:13 pm
A jealous boyfriend was at home with some friends. He couldn’t have done it. Sometimes friends will cover for each other.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:16 pm
He (jealous boyfriend) had to be let go

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:29 pm
I did not say an ex. Do you people read? I not into repeating myself.

[repeating himself] Girl comes to Aruba. Meets cool and crazy guy in C@$ino. Goes out with him. He declares that to be the case. Can’t deny it. It’s on tape.  Everybody in the C@$ino knows the group of teens, they have been drinking in there for free the whole week. After a couple of days girl meets another boy in the same C@$ino. Goes out with him.
Simian: This makes first guy really mad. So mad he confronts second boy.
First guy never denies the affair. He knows they know he was with her. However, he has an airtight alibi. Some friends say they were at home with him. Until the morning.
How can this ever be solved?

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:55 pm
He has an alibi. So tight. So tight.

Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 2:30 pm
Paulus (He) has been picked up.

Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 2:23 pm
The older Van Der Sloot (he) has been taken in again by Aruban Police.




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on June 29, 2008, 12:11:34 PM
He knows they know he was with her.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 29, 2008, 01:16:56 PM
For all who are interested in the Croes initials, we seem to have overlooked a couple of guys. An interesting thing…It appears that a lot in Aruba are named after an uncle, that is how they become junior…same name as the uncle, not the father. Not to say it is always the case and have no idea what the Junior here really stands for!

JMO, but a son of Betico being involved, would explain a lot. Even though he was AVP, I doubt anyone in Aruba would be in a hurry to tarnish the name of Betico Croes. BTW, he and Jossy were around the same age (Just thinking about a post that Silverfox made a little while back!)


Betico Croes

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Gilberto François "Betico" Croes (b. 1938 d. 1986) was an Aruban political activist who was a proponent of Aruba's separation from the rest of the Netherlands Antilles. This eventually occurred, but Croes lapsed into a coma after an accident on 31 December 1985 (the night of status aparte) and was never conscious to see his accomplishment. He's called the father of the Aruban nation.

The accident he suffered was questioned by many for years since a car was seen leaving the area after the accident. This conspiracy theory was never proven.

He was the leader of the political party M.E.P. (Movimiento Electoral di Pueblo) and was the person responsible for the Seal, Flag and Hymn of the island of Aruba. The hymn was co-written by renowned Padu Del Caribe (Padu Lampe), and Rufo Wever who also composed the anthem.
In the 1980s he also said that Aruba should target the tourism in order the diversify the economy since it depended mainly on the refinery.
He also was responsible for major projects for the people of Aruba like F.C.C.A., Arubus, Sasaki Plan (he envisioned the area destined for hotels) and many many more.

Aruba's official Holiday to remember him has been marked on January 25, his birth date.

Caya G. F. Betico Croes is named for him and is the main shopping street in Oranjestad, Aruba.

Has 2 sons, Glenbert and Junior Croes and 2 daughters Lalo Saladin-Croes and Guisette Croes.

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betico_Croes"



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: finngirl on June 29, 2008, 01:18:32 PM
Does anyone remember a discussion that we all had back around March?  It involved the initials of the 5th suspect.  We thought it was SC involving Steve Croes, but there were some other letters included.  We were told that normally ALE only releases the first two initials in someone's name.  Does anyone remember that conversation and what the letters were?

IIRC the initials SGJC were used
on the day Steve was detained

IIRC only one media source used SGJC ...
the others used SGC

IIRC there's a FP article that day,
will look for that

don't recall hearing first 2 initials only as the norm ...
Geoffrey was referred to as GvC

wasn't Lorenzo referred to as LvR ... ?
(after his pot farm bust)



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 29, 2008, 01:28:41 PM
Does anyone remember a discussion that we all had back around March?  It involved the initials of the 5th suspect.  We thought it was SC involving Steve Croes, but there were some other letters included.  We were told that normally ALE only releases the first two initials in someone's name.  Does anyone remember that conversation and what the letters were?

IIRC the initials SGJC were used
on the day Steve was detained

IIRC only one media source used SGJC ...
the others used SGC

IIRC there's a FP article that day,
will look for that

don't recall hearing first 2 initials only as the norm ...
Geoffrey was referred to as GvC

wasn't Lorenzo referred to as LvR ... ?
(after his pot farm bust)




Hi Finn...the first two initials thingy is in your forgot/remember thread... ::MonkeyHaHa::

Courtesy of one of the misinformants....bondia or the like, said it didn't happen in this case as the case was too high profile! It was in reference to the F.A.

Strange that when I see anything on the Luis Mansur case, he is listed as L.E.M.  ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Rob on June 29, 2008, 01:32:38 PM
Poochy, Colombo, SF and all,

Something just hit me. I remember I was watching a show of a channel like Discovery, and it was about gambling and slot machines. How the machines could be beaten and compromised. There was experts from Bally's and people who had actually cheated the machines.

In the program they revealed a very interesting fact. All slot machines play the same three notes. It might have been like A-C-G. I'm not totally sure what the notes were, I forget. Anyway, these notes in a specific combination, are apparently pleasing to the human ear.

wonder if this could be the poison notes and follow the music?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 29, 2008, 01:33:31 PM
Rob...does Armin play golf? Have an IQ of 149? TIA

I have a whole lot on Wichita, if you are interested....I think I may even be able to find it!...LOL


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: finngirl on June 29, 2008, 01:39:04 PM

ah, BS from bondia/Julia Renfro ...

"thanks for the memories"

I better check that thread
and see what else I forgot, LOL



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 29, 2008, 01:45:12 PM

ah, BS from bondia/Julia Renfro ...

"thanks for the memories"

I better check that thread
and see what else I forgot, LOL



 ::MonkeyHaHa::

I go there often...Thanks!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: finngirl on June 29, 2008, 01:45:40 PM

a kicker re initials

USA Today 6/18/2005
Steve Gregory Croes, 26, whom authorities earlier identified only by the initials S.G.C., said he was contacted by police Thursday night and voluntarily gave a statement, said his employer, Marcus Wiggins.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2005-06-17-aruba-arrest_x.htm

FOX News Friday, June 17, 2005
According to sources, the new man detained is a 26-year-old friend of Joran van der Sloot , the Dutch teenager who is said to have been with Holloway the night she disappeared.

The Aruban attorney general's office initially identified him only by the initials "S.G.C.," but Holloway's mother told an interviewer that his name was "Steve." FOX News later confirmed that the man's name was Steve Gregory Croes.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,159862,00.html

(CBS/AP) June 18, 2005
Aruban authorities broadened their investigation into the case of a missing U.S. teen Saturday after arresting a party boat disc jockey.

The Aruban attorney general's office released a statement announcing the arrest, but identified Croes only by his initials, "S.G.C."
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/06/17/world/main702601.shtml
_ _ _

OK, the source for most media outlets is AP/Associated Press ...
if AP says SGC then most media outlets will use what AP provided

so, this from the FP is interesting:
UPDATE: Initials S.C. born 21 -07-1978 –> Has only one hit in national health system: Steve Gregg C. J. Croes
http://scaredmonkeys.com/2005/06/17/

provided by arubagirl via her employee database ...
hmmmm

I knew I'd seen it on the FP but had forgotten the "source"



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Rob on June 29, 2008, 01:53:37 PM
Rob...does Armin play golf? Have an IQ of 149? TIA

I have a whole lot on Wichita, if you are interested....I think I may even be able to find it!...LOL

I don't know if he plays. I play. Have you ever met a banker that doesn't?  ::MonkeyHaHa::

I would say his IQ is easily 149 or higher.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 29, 2008, 02:10:59 PM
Rob...does Armin play golf? Have an IQ of 149? TIA

I have a whole lot on Wichita, if you are interested....I think I may even be able to find it!...LOL

I don't know if he plays. I play. Have you ever met a banker that doesn't?  ::MonkeyHaHa::

I would say his IQ is easily 149 or higher.

Thanks Rob for the info! I have been meaning to ask you these questions forever!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 29, 2008, 02:41:58 PM
We are back to square one again...was Steve the 4th or 5th person arrested?  It's debatable and we have argued this point through 4 Shango threads.  The person that is the 5th suspect has to meet certain facts as laid out by Simian. 

Had a party at his house.
Was a boyfriend from earlier in the week. (Who's BF?)
Those at his party was his alibi.
The alibi did not play out for the Sloots
Left said party to go help Joran.

Paulus fits.  Lorenzo fits. Steve fits. Freddy fits....everyone fits one or more of these things.  That is the problem.  I love it when we start over...just confuses the heck out of me. LOL


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on June 29, 2008, 03:30:18 PM
We are back to square one again...was Steve the 4th or 5th person arrested?  It's debatable and we have argued this point through 4 Shango threads.  The person that is the 5th suspect has to meet certain facts as laid out by Simian. 

Had a party at his house.
Was a boyfriend from earlier in the week. (Who's BF?)
Those at his party was his alibi.
The alibi did not play out for the Sloots
Left said party to go help Joran.

Paulus fits.  Lorenzo fits. Steve fits. Freddy fits....everyone fits one or more of these things.  That is the problem.  I love it when we start over...just confuses the heck out of me. LOL


or there was not a party at his house and some friends covered and said there was
the partygoers would then be able to be pinched-for perjury



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on June 29, 2008, 03:38:34 PM
Poochy, Colombo, SF and all,

Something just hit me. I remember I was watching a show of a channel like Discovery, and it was about gambling and slot machines. How the machines could be beaten and compromised. There was experts from Bally's and people who had actually cheated the machines.

In the program they revealed a very interesting fact. All slot machines play the same three notes. It might have been like A-C-G. I'm not totally sure what the notes were, I forget. Anyway, these notes in a specific combination, are apparently pleasing to the human ear.

wonder if this could be the poison notes and follow the music?

interesting.....

had thought that perhaps the reference was in regards to the credit limits, follow the money (note=loan)

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:30 pm
Who knows what song the elder will sing
 
[which song?]
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:31 pm
The shivas knew the girl
the arawaks new the girl
and the babylonians still know the girl

[know=be owed?]
Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:36 pm
All that the gamblers knew was written down. They knew the girl. She spent her nights at their tables.

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:53 pm
The Simain thinks that Babalú is clueless about who the Babylonians are. The Simian thinks that is really funny.
The Simian will make an exception and answer: The gamblers knew the girl.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:33 pm
Why did the girl owe money?

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:37 pm
DirtyHand is not a child of Babylon
He holds the real key

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:49 pm
 The fallen judge and the singing card (DirtyHand) are of the same hand, but it is dangerous for the Arawaks to play it, because everyone would hear, including the cowboys

Babalú Says: June 27th, 2005 at 12:30 am
Concerned: No, I guess he is head of some local official corps. He is the guy that knows everything and that has been in the house of Babylonians NOT seeking pleasure for himself, so Shango says. So maybe he went to search for Natalee and he is the chief of Polis.




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on June 29, 2008, 04:40:33 PM
Poochy, Colombo, SF and all,

Something just hit me. I remember I was watching a show of a channel like Discovery, and it was about gambling and slot machines. How the machines could be beaten and compromised. There was experts from Bally's and people who had actually cheated the machines.

In the program they revealed a very interesting fact. All slot machines play the same three notes. It might have been like A-C-G. I'm not totally sure what the notes were, I forget. Anyway, these notes in a specific combination, are apparently pleasing to the human ear.

wonder if this could be the poison notes and follow the music?

Rob, interesting... I do believe all this is tied to Joran's gambling habit, poison notes and maybe a locked doorway beyond the slot machine area where parties take place inside the casinos.

Check out GvCromvoirt.

Patrick said it's someone who worked on a "tourist boat". The Tattoo boat went immediately up for sale which could imply SCroes the DJ, but "the music man's song was not on the bill" so I'm ruling him out. Working on a toursit boat could also be someone pimping themselves out for $. GvCromvoirt's daddy could be the elder who provided security for the founders of babylon (casinos) and could also be the 'elder' that walks in all places, not seeking pleasure for himself. GvCromvoirt also fled Aruba. Heard on blogs he had a white pickup truck and immediately sold it. What was his alibi the night she went missing? Was GVCromvoirt at C&C that night? GvCromvoirt and MDompig both worked for the security firm, then left. GVCromvoirt was not working for it when Natalee went missing. We all heard he was a 'beach bum' and had contact with Natalee.

Patrick said the guy is from Rotterdam, and they need the body to connect it to 'the guy'. Is the DNA from the VCB shirt?

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/20/ng.01.html
MORET: Well -- well, before we get there, you heard Beth Twitty talk about a shirt. And what she was talking about is in June of 2005, there was a shirt with a logo, VCB logo, on it, and that was found on the south side of the island with blood on it. It was originally not believed to be involved in this particular case. However, we were told by Mr. Tacopina, the attorney representing Joran Van Der Sloot, that Van Cromvoirt was detained because recovered his T-shirt with forensic evidence pertinent to this case on the south side of the island. It`s not known whether it`s the same T-shirt, but VCB is the security company that Geoffrey Van Cromvoirt works for now. And according to the statement released by his family, he did not have access to those T-shirts at the time of Natalee`s disappearance, did not own those T-shirts at the time of Natalee`s disappearance.
****************
Per Patrick,

Q: In the Range Rover Joran mentions a name: Daury Ravens. This guy is supposed to have dumped the body of Natalee. Does Daury Ravens exist?
P: No. The one I suspect lives in Rotterdam.
Q: Who is this person?
P: I have mentioned two names with the ALE. And they were VERY impressed by it.
Q: How can it that this guy from Rotterdam  hasn't been arrested yet?
P: Because they're not talking. The only thing the police need is DNA. That's what they want. They need the body, man. The body. Then they can connect it with that guy.Q: Joran told more. The guy who made Natalee dissapear worked on a touristboat with a banana behind it.
P: He wanted those banana's in his butt, that guy...that's something else!...Oh, I'm not allowed to say that.
Q: Who told you that?
P: Adolph Richardson told me that. He won't be happy about this, but I'm being honest. I like Richardson but this is taking too long.
Q: Joran as a male prostitute. Is that relevant for this case?
P: I think so. Some people did things for Joran, one could think: why would they do that?


Hmmmm...why WOULD they do things for Joran? Sporter has a big mouth?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on June 29, 2008, 05:23:34 PM

The members of the Visibility Team are recruited from the ranks of the Police AND from Rodana Security  Aha! Here lies our poison siren!

5/16/06 8:28 AM the grey whisper said "...Are the sentries really asleep at the watchtower?"

Sentries=hired security who saw on cameras what happened - but said they fell asleep in the week hours of the morning Nat went missing. So where ever the security cameras were situated could imply they filmed the crime scene. But the tape was wiped clean, or evidence was tampered, so to cover that up the 'sentries' said they fell asleep and forgot to record, film, etc.

http://tinyurl.com/5jdtqw

VCB Security has a direct public/private relationship with the Visibility Police on Aruba. What are some of the other projects for VCB Security? Mambo Jambo Nightclub Aruba and the Marriott Resort & Casino Aruba. The very resort that Joran Van der Sloot claims he and Natalee were dropped off at by Deepak Kalpoe?

The idea came about three years ago and the private sector, the hotels, banded together to fund raise for a better Police and security system. As a result of public resources and private funding coming together, Aruba today has a professionally trained and fully equipped Visibility Team patrolling the high rise area of Palm Beach, the low rise area of Eagle Beach, the downtown Mecca of shopping, Oranjestad and now also San Nicolas. It was an instant success from the get go as it brought about an exodus of troublemakers from Aruba’s premium spots.


"They have a security firm that has a “consulting” relationship with the “Visibility Team.”

The Visibility Team is as Aruba.com states:

The members of the Visibility Team are recruited from the ranks of the Police and from Rodana Security, they are all well trained and nicely equipped for the job.”


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on June 29, 2008, 05:35:28 PM
I just read something very interesting on http://www.vcbsecurity.com

Live casino images can be viewed by livestreaming via xDSL AND cellphone/PDA via internet access. So the watchtower centries can film poker hands and send directly to a PDA within the casino who can give signals?

Didn't a tourist get upset with Joran, saying he was cheating or something?
 
"...This is a complete view of all the camera systems we can offer you or your company. These can both be wired or wireless with all the options you can imagine.

You or your company can view the live images at an observation center in both your or our company this is all to your liking. Observation can be done by a observation center in your company it self or you as company executive can view live images and recorded images in the comfort of your own house. This is possible by livestreaming via xDSL and is possible everywhere where there is a xDSL connection. Also there is mobile observation possible by cellphone or by PDA. (this is possible where you have internet acces with your cellphone or PDA).


Then again, based on this, Sander's cell phone went missing right? Was security hooked up in an off hours casino that night and broadcast to a few of the missing cel phones?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 29, 2008, 07:08:38 PM
Thanks for reminding me Colombo. I had forgotten that possibility.

One more thought...now everyone sit down...what if Simian was just trying to distract us from the real truth...whatever that is and neither Simian or Shango are even players in this case?  What if Shango was one of the other posters that came to SM as a paid shill to simply send us on a wild goose chase and nothing Simian, Shango, Merian, or any of the others mean anything at all?  That means I have wasted all my time working on this damn riddle!   :roll:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 29, 2008, 08:02:24 PM
The guy who made Natalee dissapear worked on a touristboat with a banana behind it.

Hi Poochy -

Julia Renfron is the editor of BonDia which is owned by John A. Chemaly, Jr.  We were told that these two were involved in the event.  Julia also owns a watersports company that has larger boats that pull banana boats.  I posted a picture a few days ago.  Tattoo doesn't pull a banana boat.  I have been able to link a person named Davin to Chemaly.  Davin left Holland around Christmas time or before.  He is in New Zealand.  This would also fit that Patrick wasn't able to meet with Davin because he had left the country.  Joar said that this person went back and forth to Aruba on business.  This would eliminate the 17 year old friends.  Chemaly is gay and could be a link to Joran.

We were also told that two of Rudy's sons were involved.  I don't know if they were legitimate or illegitimate sons because apparantly he has both.  We were also looking at sons of Oduber and Dompig.  Michael Dompig reportedly worked for the black team and Julia Renfro's watersports company.  I posted pictures of Michael with the watersports company boats several months ago.  They are back in the threads somewhere.

I have been working on an assumption that the car chase and the decapitated body were diversions set up by Renfro to coverup things that were occuring simultaneously.  On July 11th, someone unidentified and in his 20s was arrested at his home in Oranjestadt.  On July 11th Tiel from Diario was involved in the car chase.  I am looking at this as Tiel being setup to keep the media away from the arrest.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 29, 2008, 09:18:00 PM
Rob - I am responding to your post on the NH thread.  Do we know for sure that Michael Dompig is gay?  If so, that would open another can of worms.  He could be the 5th.  He could have met Natalee earlier in the week and then had the confrontation with Joran at the Matty Apts.  He's older than the Pimps and might easily have had his own apt. or house where he could have used the "party at home" alibi.  Michael did work for the Black Team and he did work for the watersports company, thus having access to the banana boat.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 29, 2008, 09:24:14 PM
JUNE 10TH. AND 11TH.

On 7-12 PAUL REYNOLDS told MSNBC, “I know that my sister had a meeting with the FBI June 10, Friday. And from that meeting, she became convinced that Natalee was no longer alive. She called her mother and told her that. And our family was—was—began the grieving process. You know, we were told the report would come out the next day. Later that night, we saw the reports that confessions had been made, that something bad had happened. Shortly thereafter, it was retracted. The next morning, there was a report that said Natalee was confirmed dead. And these reports came from the deputy commissioner. They came from the spokesperson from the Ministry of Justice. And then, all of a sudden, these statements and these confessions just disappeared.” “I am not aware of any follow-up information. You know, this seemed to disappear from sight, these confessions did. At the time, we thought that because the investigation is kept secret, we thought it was ongoing, and maybe they just didn't want to release it officially at that time. But, as we see that the appeals, the hearings are showing there's no evidence, but yet we have these confessions, it doesn't make any sense. It's as if they are being hidden or taken away.”

And possibly the Aruba-bay videos…….


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on June 29, 2008, 09:34:58 PM
The guy who made Natalee dissapear worked on a touristboat with a banana behind it.

Hi Poochy -

Julia Renfron is the editor of BonDia which is owned by John A. Chemaly, Jr.  We were told that these two were involved in the event.  Julia also owns a watersports company that has larger boats that pull banana boats.  I posted a picture a few days ago.  Tattoo doesn't pull a banana boat.  I have been able to link a person named Davin to Chemaly.  Davin left Holland around Christmas time or before.  He is in New Zealand.  This would also fit that Patrick wasn't able to meet with Davin because he had left the country.  Joar said that this person went back and forth to Aruba on business.  This would eliminate the 17 year old friends.  Chemaly is gay and could be a link to Joran.

We were also told that two of Rudy's sons were involved.  I don't know if they were legitimate or illegitimate sons because apparantly he has both.  We were also looking at sons of Oduber and Dompig.  Michael Dompig reportedly worked for the black team and Julia Renfro's watersports company.  I posted pictures of Michael with the watersports company boats several months ago.  They are back in the threads somewhere.

I have been working on an assumption that the car chase and the decapitated body were diversions set up by Renfro to coverup things that were occuring simultaneously.  On July 11th, someone unidentified and in his 20s was arrested at his home in Oranjestadt.  On July 11th Tiel from Diario was involved in the car chase.  I am looking at this as Tiel being setup to keep the media away from the arrest.



Thanks for the recap SS.  This is the first I'm hearing about two of Rudy's sons being involved. I'll google around for you. I did hear MDompig worked for the 'black team' when GvCromvoirt worked there also, and both were fired.

Interesting assumption you have about the car chase. Is this car chase tied with the helicoptor landing on a front lawn, and Natalee was whisked away? During my research back then I discovered that 'they' use helicoptors to dump bodies into the ocean. (Didn't the whiskered rat Oduber take out a helicoptor and get reprimanded for it?)

Back to the decapitated body and all the tete's rolling and washing up on shore, while codetalkers could have been planting a diversion, what do you get out of Joran's statement (see below)? I get that her head (IT) is by the FHuts, and the rest (her body) he has no clue. I always thought this was the news that Beth received in that pic of her slunk down in the arms of those two ALE guys with that anguished look on her face. I also got that the head was the package that was 'screaming to be heard', the rumor floating around the island.  The decision was made that it was safer to let Natalee appear missing for eternity than to produce one part of her. After all, who would visit Aruba any more? Inquests into DirtyHand would no doubt be warranted if that let out. Based on what they did to that Choose-A-Name bouncer, someone down there has no soul. But the package is ever so late, and the package it was decided will never arrive.

Joran (June 13th 2005 Proces verbaal findings by Jan vdStraten) "...To my question where the girl was buried then, he answered:
      I think that IT was buried then next to the wall of the Fisherman's Hut., for the rest I would not know either.

 During the conversation Joran showed differing emotions. Sometimes he cried, sometimes he was direct in his answers"



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 29, 2008, 10:39:12 PM
This is information that we received a few months ago.

there was a prty but the party was a Casino Party, Big Shots, Big Weel,

The part goe-ers are not the kids but BUT the BIG GUNS...at the palace

How can you pinch big guns if it they are shielded from RC.

there is a way...but after we solve this.

No the 5th is Rudy croes son

THe person that provided the escord when the 2 shivas left are the black team, Rudy croes children are working for the black team and they where there, they new the girl,

The Young Babylonians are the sons of Rudy Croes.

100% shure... need name. or will skip check with other source.

Check this for all of us

Where are the Children of Rudy Croes.

Find the children...BTW Rudy Croes like making movies

Find the Children

Back to decoding

Remember also that Dompig is from Surinam.  He is related to the Kalpoes.  In this quote, the palace is a location known as Matty Apts.  It is across the street from the Monserat Pond that was recently drained and searched.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 30, 2008, 06:48:52 AM
SS and Poochy...I think you are confusing the Black Team with the Visability Team. According to Simian the Black Team is highly trained and armed to the hilt. IIRC there is a pic in the Imprtant Document thread. I recall asking Caps if these were one and the same and he said 'No'!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 30, 2008, 06:59:49 AM
Thanks for reminding me Colombo. I had forgotten that possibility.

One more thought...now everyone sit down...what if Simian was just trying to distract us from the real truth...whatever that is and neither Simian or Shango are even players in this case?  What if Shango was one of the other posters that came to SM as a paid shill to simply send us on a wild goose chase and nothing Simian, Shango, Merian, or any of the others mean anything at all?  That means I have wasted all my time working on this damn riddle!   :roll:




Been doing some homework on ‘Was Simian trying to distract us from the real truth?’ –  he  pointed at the Fifth suspect, and reinforced the Steve Croes’ story of creating an alibi. ‘The music man’s song was not on the bill.’ He then came back as Mirian and pointed at Freddy in the famous pic.

Is it a coincidence that he made his first posts, on 6/17, under this FP heading
…“BREAKING NEWS: 4th Person Arrested in Natalee Holloway case (CORRECTION NO 5th PERSON)”?

He returns on Wednesday,6/22 around 11AM, beginning with the insurance fraud and ending at 6PM with ‘a simple party at his house’. He goes from 3 posts on 6/17 about Chandra Levy, to a barrage of them on 6/22, defending Aruba, criticizing the US and finally introducing the 5th. Suspect.

Thursday,6/23, he begins posting around 10.30, ‘He is too afraid to confess’ and quits shortly after 3PM.with ‘Steve Croes is singing’.

Friday, 6/24, ‘Anybody want a blessing from Saint Alibi’, again around 10.30 and ends around 6.15 with a post to Ally in Pap, about an imposter.

Saturday, 6/25, At 6.47PM, ‘There are 3 vehicles’. He continues unti around 10.30 ending with impersonators, doppelgangers and no more clues.

Sunday,6/26, At 2.58PM, ‘The music man’s song was not on the bill’. He continues through 11.37PM and ‘how can the gamblers be wrong about the girl?’

Monday, 6/27, At 9.13AM, back to work…starting slow and then finishing up at 12.20 with three consecutive posts in Pap.

Tuesday, 6/28. 1.42 AM., ‘The Simian has a handicap of 12.’ Continues until 3.10AM, spatting with Shango. Returns at 5PM and again posts about an imposter, leaves and returns at 8.15PM, with ‘They will all take a tumble soon.’ Another post about the silence in the brook and them being liars too.

Wednesday, 6/29. 11.45AM, posts about the boys from the neighourhood. Three posts about this and tickets being changed, in around 15 minutes, and leaves. He returns at 2.18Pm, with ‘They have too much on the boy.’ Reposts the same post a minute later and ends shortly after with ‘on her way to Panama with the help of the Carib.’

Thursday, 6/30, 10.18AM, a post about the ex-boyfriend. Ends with ‘The music man would lose to a lettuce at a spelling bee….’at 4.24PM. This is the end of Simian. Returns as Mono at 6.20 and makes three posts in Pap.

Friday, 7/1. 10.30AM. two posts as Baboon…

It appears that Simian may have been a paid shill…he spent a lot of his workday posting on the FP of SM! Hmmm…reinforces my thoughts on ‘Freddy’!

Now where would that leave us with Shango?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Pita on June 30, 2008, 08:40:18 AM

The members of the Visibility Team are recruited from the ranks of the Police AND from Rodana Security  Aha! Here lies our poison siren!

5/16/06 8:28 AM the grey whisper said "...Are the sentries really asleep at the watchtower?"

Sentries=hired security who saw on cameras what happened - but said they fell asleep in the week hours of the morning Nat went missing. So where ever the security cameras were situated could imply they filmed the crime scene. But the tape was wiped clean, or evidence was tampered, so to cover that up the 'sentries' said they fell asleep and forgot to record, film, etc.

http://tinyurl.com/5jdtqw

VCB Security has a direct public/private relationship with the Visibility Police on Aruba. What are some of the other projects for VCB Security? Mambo Jambo Nightclub Aruba and the Marriott Resort & Casino Aruba. The very resort that Joran Van der Sloot claims he and Natalee were dropped off at by Deepak Kalpoe?

The idea came about three years ago and the private sector, the hotels, banded together to fund raise for a better Police and security system. As a result of public resources and private funding coming together, Aruba today has a professionally trained and fully equipped Visibility Team patrolling the high rise area of Palm Beach, the low rise area of Eagle Beach, the downtown Mecca of shopping, Oranjestad and now also San Nicolas. It was an instant success from the get go as it brought about an exodus of troublemakers from Aruba’s premium spots.


"They have a security firm that has a “consulting” relationship with the “Visibility Team.”

The Visibility Team is as Aruba.com states:

The members of the Visibility Team are recruited from the ranks of the Police and from Rodana Security, they are all well trained and nicely equipped for the job.”


RHODHANA SECURITY CONSULTANCY & SERVICES 
 
Business address FRANKLINSTRAAT Z/N, ORANJESTAD WEST 
Legal form  LIMITED LIABILITY COMPANY 
Name of the company  RHODHANA N.V. 
Statutory seat  ARUBA 
Date of incorporation  22 OCTOBER 1990 
         
DIRECTORS - AUTHORIZED PERSONS AND CORPORATE BODIES - SUPERVISORY BOARD: 
 
ANTERSIJN, SIMON ROBERT JOSEPH
Residing in  POS CHIQUITO 13-G, SAVANETA, ARUBA 
Born in  COLOMBIA, BOGOTA on 1 MAY 1963 
Nationality  DUTCH 
Position  MANAGING DIRECTOR 
Effective  1 OCTOBER 1993 
Authority  FULL 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 30, 2008, 09:04:54 AM
What does "young Babylonians" mean?  That would depend on your definition of Babylonian. 

Babylonians= Dutch=young Dutch kids
Babylonians= Gamblers=kids that gamble in casinos
Babylonians= PTB on Aruba=Rudy Croes relatives

The term "young" is what matters...I think it means the children of Babylonians as in their kids.  Changes the post and it's meaning depending on what you think is correct.  Those that use Caps interpretation of Shango must remember he changed his ideas as he went along and what meant something at the beginning did not end up that way when he finished. In other words, he changed his mind as much as we do trying to make it fit.  He indicted Steve Croes was the 5th suspect in the beginning and then changed that thought several times over the course of his theory due to additional information he learned. I have forgotten who he finally settled on in the end...it seems he was making a full circle to the same conclusions many monkeys had already made.  Which would validate much the work done in Shango in the end. Just some thoughts to consider.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on June 30, 2008, 09:46:44 AM
What does "young Babylonians" mean?  That would depend on your definition of Babylonian. 

Babylonians= Dutch=young Dutch kids
Babylonians= Gamblers=kids that gamble in casinos
Babylonians= PTB on Aruba=Rudy Croes relatives

The term "young" is what matters...I think it means the children of Babylonians as in their kids.  Changes the post and it's meaning depending on what you think is correct.  Those that use Caps interpretation of Shango must remember he changed his ideas as he went along and what meant something at the beginning did not end up that way when he finished. In other words, he changed his mind as much as we do trying to make it fit.  He indicted Steve Croes was the 5th suspect in the beginning and then changed that thought several times over the course of his theory due to additional information he learned. I have forgotten who he finally settled on in the end...it seems he was making a full circle to the same conclusions many monkeys had already made.  Which would validate much the work done in Shango in the end. Just some thoughts to consider.

I agree.

However this is what we know for sure based on codetalkers themselves:

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:31 pm
The shivas knew the girl. the arawaks new the girl. and the babylonians still know the girl.

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:53 pm
The Simain thinks that Babalú is clueless about who the Babylonians are. The Simian thinks that is really funny. The Simian will make an exception and answer: The gamblers knew the  girl.

Babylonians = Gamblers. Parents - older gamblers like Paulus, Jaime's father, the ones with their sons at the casino.


Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:01 pm
Of whom is the young Babylonian afraid? Why won’t he talk?

Based on Shango, chewed up tongue = young Babylonian = young gambler = Joran.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 30, 2008, 09:57:42 AM
So that would eliminate Rudy's kids?  OR does it?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on June 30, 2008, 10:04:12 AM
Cont'd from prev. post...Babylonians are Gamblers, and the Elders are the founding families - Solignier, Croes, Wever, Odueber. Children of the elders, Rudy's sons is who you said you were looking for.


Question - does anybody know who 'G" is?  I thought it was GvCromvoirt, but not so sure now after reading a recap of Joran's book posted on SM:

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1097.0

P 250
According to ABC, Geoffrey got connected to the case after a taxi driver had declared that he had Natalee in his car in an intoxicated state. In the car she was dialing with a cell phone and spoke about a “Dutch boy” with whom she’d fallen in love. That was confirmed by Natalee's friends in Alabama. They also provided the police with a matching description of GVC, and the initial of his first name.

Natalee indeed had met a "G" in CnCs, however this one came from Amsterdam. Beside the fact that Geoffrey didn’t come from Amsterdam, he also wasn’t at Aruba before the summer, like "G" had told Natalee and her friends.

Around 10.45, the girls are starting to give bodyshots. Natalee is the first one of the group who let them took a bodyshot. Fellow student Beau Barron is the first who took a bodyshot of her belly....

Excerpt;  The man out of the bus and an unknown white guy with brown hair are watching Natalee while she is giving bodyshots....Natalee didn`t talk to either one of them. Ruth and Natalee are getting a conversation with a guy from Amsterdam who calls himself  "G"..... He tells Ruth and Natalee that he`s on Aruba for the summer and has an apartment here Jeremy Brown, the ex bf of Natalee is also dancing for awhile on the stage with Natalee....

HannieC  Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 10:04 pm       
Excerpt;Natalee doesn`t play blackjack, she walks around between her gf`s and is constantly calling with a cell phone. At 8.40 she takes a mix drink with vodka... At the blackjack table are sitting two men, one of them is white, about 45 years of age and has dark hair. Madison had seen this guy two days before already in the Holiday Inn Casino. Some people thought they recognized Joran`s father, but Paul was already gone. The other one, is a quiet white young guy. He has said, he came from the Netherlands and that he was 19 years old.... li'l Shango's MommyJoined: 23 Mar 2006Posts: 8448Location: The Hague, The Netherlands


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 30, 2008, 10:17:45 AM
Cont'd from prev. post...Babylonians are Gamblers, and the Elders are the founding families - Solignier, Croes, Wever, Odueber. Children of the elders, Rudy's sons is who you said you were looking for.


Question - does anybody know who 'G" is?  I thought it was GvCromvoirt, but not so sure now after reading a recap of Joran's book posted on SM:

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1097.0

P 250
According to ABC, Geoffrey got connected to the case after a taxi driver had declared that he had Natalee in his car in an intoxicated state. In the car she was dialing with a cell phone and spoke about a “Dutch boy” with whom she’d fallen in love. That was confirmed by Natalee's friends in Alabama. They also provided the police with a matching description of GVC, and the initial of his first name.

Natalee indeed had met a "G" in CnCs, however this one came from Amsterdam. Beside the fact that Geoffrey didn’t come from Amsterdam, he also wasn’t at Aruba before the summer, like "G" had told Natalee and her friends.

Around 10.45, the girls are starting to give bodyshots. Natalee is the first one of the group who let them took a bodyshot. Fellow student Beau Barron is the first who took a bodyshot of her belly....

Excerpt;  The man out of the bus and an unknown white guy with brown hair are watching Natalee while she is giving bodyshots....Natalee didn`t talk to either one of them. Ruth and Natalee are getting a conversation with a guy from Amsterdam who calls himself  "G"..... He tells Ruth and Natalee that he`s on Aruba for the summer and has an apartment here Jeremy Brown, the ex bf of Natalee is also dancing for awhile on the stage with Natalee....

HannieC  Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 10:04 pm       
Excerpt;Natalee doesn`t play blackjack, she walks around between her gf`s and is constantly calling with a cell phone. At 8.40 she takes a mix drink with vodka... At the blackjack table are sitting two men, one of them is white, about 45 years of age and has dark hair. Madison had seen this guy two days before already in the Holiday Inn Casino. Some people thought they recognized Joran`s father, but Paul was already gone. The other one, is a quiet white young guy. He has said, he came from the Netherlands and that he was 19 years old.... li'l Shango's MommyJoined: 23 Mar 2006Posts: 8448Location: The Hague, The Netherlands


I have looked at Geoffrey Wever as "G'. He works for Croes Wever and Cheung law firm, Hendrick's and could have been in Aruba for the summer, had his own apartment and working at the casino. Even tracked Geoffrey to Amsterdam University, IIRC. There is a woman Croes-Wever works there as well. Caps said it couldn't be him as it needed to be a Croes, but I am not so sure. Not sure that Geoffrey is not a Croes...LOL

I believe the quiet young white guy, 19, is how Joran presented himself...This is how I always read it...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on June 30, 2008, 10:17:55 AM
So that would eliminate Rudy's kids?  OR does it?

No, it doesn't eliminate Rudy's kids because Rudy is an Elder. His kid is the 'offspring of the elder, the children of the elder. The fallen elder is not Paulus - Paulus is the fallen judge.

(The 46th - In summer of 2005 there was a list of 46 hotels in aruba. I believe the 46th was the Wyndham. )

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:01 pm
Arawaks often go to play in small houses of Babylon with the offspring of the Elders.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:04 pm
Are the children of the elders there, or did they flee to Babylon? DirtyHand knows, this is his Power. there will be 46 sacrifices.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:08 pm
The 46th will pay for the children of the Elders.

(The 46th - In summer of 2005 there was a list of 46 hotels in aruba. I think it was the Wyndham that was listed as #46)

Shango Says:June 26th, 2005 at 10:48 pm
Coverups begin with elders and the founders of the houses of Babylon. Not the minions. DirtyHand knows this

Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:52 pm
The elder agreed to speak, but he he loves the boy too much. he knows the passages of the palace too well. So the Babylonians must make sure the check mate is iron-clad. Something rotten from The Hague will have to make the third act play out.

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:09 pm
Young Babylonians and Shivas do not build sand castles. DirtyHand knows this. Children of the Elders play in the maze, but DirtyHand is afraid to rave.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on June 30, 2008, 10:36:42 AM
Cont'd from prev. post...Babylonians are Gamblers, and the Elders are the founding families - Solignier, Croes, Wever, Odueber. Children of the elders, Rudy's sons is who you said you were looking for.


Question - does anybody know who 'G" is?  I thought it was GvCromvoirt, but not so sure now after reading a recap of Joran's book posted on SM:

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1097.0

P 250
According to ABC, Geoffrey got connected to the case after a taxi driver had declared that he had Natalee in his car in an intoxicated state. In the car she was dialing with a cell phone and spoke about a “Dutch boy” with whom she’d fallen in love. That was confirmed by Natalee's friends in Alabama. They also provided the police with a matching description of GVC, and the initial of his first name.

Natalee indeed had met a "G" in CnCs, however this one came from Amsterdam. Beside the fact that Geoffrey didn’t come from Amsterdam, he also wasn’t at Aruba before the summer, like "G" had told Natalee and her friends.

Around 10.45, the girls are starting to give bodyshots. Natalee is the first one of the group who let them took a bodyshot. Fellow student Beau Barron is the first who took a bodyshot of her belly....

Excerpt;  The man out of the bus and an unknown white guy with brown hair are watching Natalee while she is giving bodyshots....Natalee didn`t talk to either one of them. Ruth and Natalee are getting a conversation with a guy from Amsterdam who calls himself  "G"..... He tells Ruth and Natalee that he`s on Aruba for the summer and has an apartment here Jeremy Brown, the ex bf of Natalee is also dancing for awhile on the stage with Natalee....

HannieC  Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 10:04 pm       
Excerpt;Natalee doesn`t play blackjack, she walks around between her gf`s and is constantly calling with a cell phone. At 8.40 she takes a mix drink with vodka... At the blackjack table are sitting two men, one of them is white, about 45 years of age and has dark hair. Madison had seen this guy two days before already in the Holiday Inn Casino. Some people thought they recognized Joran`s father, but Paul was already gone. The other one, is a quiet white young guy. He has said, he came from the Netherlands and that he was 19 years old.... li'l Shango's MommyJoined: 23 Mar 2006Posts: 8448Location: The Hague, The Netherlands


I have looked at Geoffrey Wever as "G'. He works for Croes Wever and Cheung law firm, Hendrick's and could have been in Aruba for the summer, had his own apartment and working at the casino. Even tracked Geoffrey to Amsterdam University, IIRC. There is a woman Croes-Wever works there as well. Caps said it couldn't be him as it needed to be a Croes, but I am not so sure. Not sure that Geoffrey is not a Croes...LOL

I believe the quiet young white guy, 19, is how Joran presented himself...This is how I always read it...

Thanks Mum!

Geoffrey Wever - reminds me of the slip up of names "LORENZO WEVER' Charles Croes blurted out!  Maybe Lorenzo and G are buddies.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 30, 2008, 10:52:08 AM
Cont'd from prev. post...Babylonians are Gamblers, and the Elders are the founding families - Solignier, Croes, Wever, Odueber. Children of the elders, Rudy's sons is who you said you were looking for.


Question - does anybody know who 'G" is?  I thought it was GvCromvoirt, but not so sure now after reading a recap of Joran's book posted on SM:

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1097.0

P 250
According to ABC, Geoffrey got connected to the case after a taxi driver had declared that he had Natalee in his car in an intoxicated state. In the car she was dialing with a cell phone and spoke about a “Dutch boy” with whom she’d fallen in love. That was confirmed by Natalee's friends in Alabama. They also provided the police with a matching description of GVC, and the initial of his first name.

Natalee indeed had met a "G" in CnCs, however this one came from Amsterdam. Beside the fact that Geoffrey didn’t come from Amsterdam, he also wasn’t at Aruba before the summer, like "G" had told Natalee and her friends.

Around 10.45, the girls are starting to give bodyshots. Natalee is the first one of the group who let them took a bodyshot. Fellow student Beau Barron is the first who took a bodyshot of her belly....

Excerpt;  The man out of the bus and an unknown white guy with brown hair are watching Natalee while she is giving bodyshots....Natalee didn`t talk to either one of them. Ruth and Natalee are getting a conversation with a guy from Amsterdam who calls himself  "G"..... He tells Ruth and Natalee that he`s on Aruba for the summer and has an apartment here Jeremy Brown, the ex bf of Natalee is also dancing for awhile on the stage with Natalee....

HannieC  Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 10:04 pm       
Excerpt;Natalee doesn`t play blackjack, she walks around between her gf`s and is constantly calling with a cell phone. At 8.40 she takes a mix drink with vodka... At the blackjack table are sitting two men, one of them is white, about 45 years of age and has dark hair. Madison had seen this guy two days before already in the Holiday Inn Casino. Some people thought they recognized Joran`s father, but Paul was already gone. The other one, is a quiet white young guy. He has said, he came from the Netherlands and that he was 19 years old.... li'l Shango's MommyJoined: 23 Mar 2006Posts: 8448Location: The Hague, The Netherlands


I have looked at Geoffrey Wever as "G'. He works for Croes Wever and Cheung law firm, Hendrick's and could have been in Aruba for the summer, had his own apartment and working at the casino. Even tracked Geoffrey to Amsterdam University, IIRC. There is a woman Croes-Wever works there as well. Caps said it couldn't be him as it needed to be a Croes, but I am not so sure. Not sure that Geoffrey is not a Croes...LOL

I believe the quiet young white guy, 19, is how Joran presented himself...This is how I always read it...

Thanks Mum!

Geoffrey Wever - reminds me of the slip up of names "LORENZO WEVER' Charles Croes blurted out!  Maybe Lorenzo and G are buddies.


You are Welcome...I thought that was Tito...are the Lacles and Wever's related? Darn...they are all related, except Freddy!!!

I looked at Geoffrey because of the mix up with names and the difference in ages given for the Wever working at the HI...Geoffrey fit the 24 year old in '05 and Guido didn't! Still can't picture Guido, the Racquet Club intern working at the casino, at 19 years of age!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 30, 2008, 11:04:32 AM
Thanks for reminding me Colombo. I had forgotten that possibility.

One more thought...now everyone sit down...what if Simian was just trying to distract us from the real truth...whatever that is and neither Simian or Shango are even players in this case?  What if Shango was one of the other posters that came to SM as a paid shill to simply send us on a wild goose chase and nothing Simian, Shango, Merian, or any of the others mean anything at all?  That means I have wasted all my time working on this damn riddle!   :roll:




Been doing some homework on ‘Was Simian trying to distract us from the real truth?’ –  he  pointed at the Fifth suspect, and reinforced the Steve Croes’ story of creating an alibi. ‘The music man’s song was not on the bill.’ He then came back as Mirian and pointed at Freddy in the famous pic.

Is it a coincidence that he made his first posts, on 6/17, under this FP heading
…“BREAKING NEWS: 4th Person Arrested in Natalee Holloway case (CORRECTION NO 5th PERSON)”?

He returns on Wednesday,6/22 around 11AM, beginning with the insurance fraud and ending at 6PM with ‘a simple party at his house’. He goes from 3 posts on 6/17 about Chandra Levy, to a barrage of them on 6/22, defending Aruba, criticizing the US and finally introducing the 5th. Suspect.

Thursday,6/23, he begins posting around 10.30, ‘He is too afraid to confess’ and quits shortly after 3PM.with ‘Steve Croes is singing’.

Friday, 6/24, ‘Anybody want a blessing from Saint Alibi’, again around 10.30 and ends around 6.15 with a post to Ally in Pap, about an imposter.

Saturday, 6/25, At 6.47PM, ‘There are 3 vehicles’. He continues unti around 10.30 ending with impersonators, doppelgangers and no more clues.

Sunday,6/26, At 2.58PM, ‘The music man’s song was not on the bill’. He continues through 11.37PM and ‘how can the gamblers be wrong about the girl?’

Monday, 6/27, At 9.13AM, back to work…starting slow and then finishing up at 12.20 with three consecutive posts in Pap.

Tuesday, 6/28. 1.42 AM., ‘The Simian has a handicap of 12.’ Continues until 3.10AM, spatting with Shango. Returns at 5PM and again posts about an imposter, leaves and returns at 8.15PM, with ‘They will all take a tumble soon.’ Another post about the silence in the brook and them being liars too.

Wednesday, 6/29. 11.45AM, posts about the boys from the neighourhood. Three posts about this and tickets being changed, in around 15 minutes, and leaves. He returns at 2.18Pm, with ‘They have too much on the boy.’ Reposts the same post a minute later and ends shortly after with ‘on her way to Panama with the help of the Carib.’

Thursday, 6/30, 10.18AM, a post about the ex-boyfriend. Ends with ‘The music man would lose to a lettuce at a spelling bee….’at 4.24PM. This is the end of Simian. Returns as Mono at 6.20 and makes three posts in Pap.

Friday, 7/1. 10.30AM. two posts as Baboon…

It appears that Simian may have been a paid shill…he spent a lot of his workday posting on the FP of SM! Hmmm…reinforces my thoughts on ‘Freddy’!

Now where would that leave us with Shango?





Mum - you could be absolutely correct.  Simian was protecting cousin Steve, but he also may have had another agenda.  Do you remember this conversation about Armin's father Rufio......



VMS....I have no problem with declaring Armin as Simian and Merian. The connections are very likley reliable... now to the 5th suspect. 

LALA He Knows but he can not talk. It is his Father that went with the Black Team to do the cleanup that night.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 30, 2008, 11:16:32 AM
Cont'd from prev. post...Babylonians are Gamblers, and the Elders are the founding families - Solignier, Croes, Wever, Odueber. Children of the elders, Rudy's sons is who you said you were looking for.


Question - does anybody know who 'G" is?  I thought it was GvCromvoirt, but not so sure now after reading a recap of Joran's book posted on SM:

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1097.0

P 250
According to ABC, Geoffrey got connected to the case after a taxi driver had declared that he had Natalee in his car in an intoxicated state. In the car she was dialing with a cell phone and spoke about a “Dutch boy” with whom she’d fallen in love. That was confirmed by Natalee's friends in Alabama. They also provided the police with a matching description of GVC, and the initial of his first name.

Natalee indeed had met a "G" in CnCs, however this one came from Amsterdam. Beside the fact that Geoffrey didn’t come from Amsterdam, he also wasn’t at Aruba before the summer, like "G" had told Natalee and her friends.

Around 10.45, the girls are starting to give bodyshots. Natalee is the first one of the group who let them took a bodyshot. Fellow student Beau Barron is the first who took a bodyshot of her belly....

Excerpt;  The man out of the bus and an unknown white guy with brown hair are watching Natalee while she is giving bodyshots....Natalee didn`t talk to either one of them. Ruth and Natalee are getting a conversation with a guy from Amsterdam who calls himself  "G"..... He tells Ruth and Natalee that he`s on Aruba for the summer and has an apartment here Jeremy Brown, the ex bf of Natalee is also dancing for awhile on the stage with Natalee....

HannieC  Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 10:04 pm       
Excerpt;Natalee doesn`t play blackjack, she walks around between her gf`s and is constantly calling with a cell phone. At 8.40 she takes a mix drink with vodka... At the blackjack table are sitting two men, one of them is white, about 45 years of age and has dark hair. Madison had seen this guy two days before already in the Holiday Inn Casino. Some people thought they recognized Joran`s father, but Paul was already gone. The other one, is a quiet white young guy. He has said, he came from the Netherlands and that he was 19 years old.... li'l Shango's MommyJoined: 23 Mar 2006Posts: 8448Location: The Hague, The Netherlands


I have looked at Geoffrey Wever as "G'. He works for Croes Wever and Cheung law firm, Hendrick's and could have been in Aruba for the summer, had his own apartment and working at the casino. Even tracked Geoffrey to Amsterdam University, IIRC. There is a woman Croes-Wever works there as well. Caps said it couldn't be him as it needed to be a Croes, but I am not so sure. Not sure that Geoffrey is not a Croes...LOL

I believe the quiet young white guy, 19, is how Joran presented himself...This is how I always read it...



Mum - I think we pretty much decided that Steve Gregeroy Croes is not the Croes son of Hendrick.  There are probably two people named Steve Croes, but does this breakdown of Hendrick's family help with anything?

S.G.C Biological Father =  Croes Hendrik S.   DOB=1/8/1942 GOV. LAWYER , RUNS over POLICE, runs the MEP party
S.G.C Mother = Croes, Born. Garrido - Filomena M.  DOB=10/7/1943

PAPA & MAMA Address Aruba, Seroe Pita 22

Filomena Garrido Croes (Mitchi as callname) uses her born last name on the son.

Son Name was Steve Garrido Croes Junior.

There is also Edward Croes who is the brother of Steve.

There is Evelin Croes who is married to a Wever


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on June 30, 2008, 11:37:20 AM
Here is the info on Hendrick Croes law firm...my computer does not want to load anything with Croes in it!

Ss..I recall what Caps posted about Armin's father, just don't think I agree with it. Armin may have had another motive, but I just don't think it was that.

The Evelin croes conversation is around the same time that Caps and I discussed Geoffrey. IIRC. I still maintain that if his mother is a Croes, then he is still a Croes even though he is called Wever...JMO...BBL


Croes Wever Tchong
Hendrik S. Croes · Rudolf M. Wever † · P. John Tchong. Associates. Iris R. Giesen-Wever · David M. Passchier · Evelyn C. Wever-Croes · Anthony A. Ruiz ...
www.lawyersaruba.com/modules/sections/index.php?op=viewarticle&artid=4 - 14k - Cached - Similar pages - Note this

Croes Wever TchongWelcome to the website of CROES WEVER TCHONG – your trusted lawyers. On this site you can find detailed information about: ...
www.lawyersaruba.com/ - 14k -


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on June 30, 2008, 12:49:07 PM
Here is the info on Hendrick Croes law firm...my computer does not want to load anything with Croes in it!

Ss..I recall what Caps posted about Armin's father, just don't think I agree with it. Armin may have had another motive, but I just don't think it was that.

The Evelin croes conversation is around the same time that Caps and I discussed Geoffrey. IIRC. I still maintain that if his mother is a Croes, then he is still a Croes even though he is called Wever...JMO...BBL


Croes Wever Tchong
Hendrik S. Croes · Rudolf M. Wever † · P. John Tchong. Associates. Iris R. Giesen-Wever · David M. Passchier · Evelyn C. Wever-Croes · Anthony A. Ruiz ...
www.lawyersaruba.com/modules/sections/index.php?op=viewarticle&artid=4 - 14k - Cached - Similar pages - Note this

Croes Wever TchongWelcome to the website of CROES WEVER TCHONG – your trusted lawyers. On this site you can find detailed information about: ...
www.lawyersaruba.com/ - 14k -


All so very interesting - great sleuting!

And while reading it, I was ever so reminded about all the codetalkers little birdies.

Bird=crow=croes. And now I think that Yellowbird is NOT natalee (Yellowhammer might be but not Yellowbird), but a blond haired dutch Birdy Croes.

Merian Ernest 7/27/05 11:58am
Sorry, John Neely, if the Yellowbird is found all will be known.  The hours are winding down. As Emily is sent to the sea, clearing the path for the Babylonians.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 11:12 pm
Even Flying Birds Sing. If the key does not arrive tomorrow, that door to Eden will remain closed I must feed the messengers.

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:27 pm
The elder had to come clean. He knows what damaged he had caused. The Simian said to not shake the wire, ‘cause the bird would fly away. The Simian would never pose. Go back and read what the Simian wrote. The Babylonians knows what happened, but they are up in arms. The gamblers knew the girl.

What else was discussed around june 26th to make the little birdie go bye bye?



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: truthseeker2 on June 30, 2008, 01:19:59 PM

All so very interesting - great sleuting!

And while reading it, I was ever so reminded about all the codetalkers little birdies.

Bird=crow=croes. And now I think that Yellowbird is NOT natalee (Yellowhammer might be but not Yellowbird), but a blond haired dutch Birdy Croes.

Merian Ernest 7/27/05 11:58am
Sorry, John Neely, if the Yellowbird is found all will be known.  The hours are winding down. As Emily is sent to the sea, clearing the path for the Babylonians.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 11:12 pm
Even Flying Birds Sing. If the key does not arrive tomorrow, that door to Eden will remain closed I must feed the messengers.

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:27 pm
The elder had to come clean. He knows what damaged he had caused. The Simian said to not shake the wire, ‘cause the bird would fly away. The Simian would never pose. Go back and read what the Simian wrote. The Babylonians knows what happened, but they are up in arms. The gamblers knew the girl.

What else was discussed around june 26th to make the little birdie go bye bye?


It was decided that Paulus and Steve Croes would be released and the search of the quarry in Moko was to begin the next day - June 27.


Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:56 pm
The Simian knows his Lordship did not have a key to open the door to eden
the answer lies with the Arawak Nation

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 11:01 pm
If the door to eden is to be opened with that key, it will be tomorrow
or forever remained closed

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 11:05 pm
DirtyHand has worked for the elders for a long time

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 11:12 pm
Even Flying Birds Sing
If the key does not arrive tomorrow, that door to Eden will remain closed
I must feed the messengers



Shango then returns for one post at 4:00 am:

Shango Says:June 27th, 2005 at 4:00 am
Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon with his 12:30 posting



He returns four hours later:

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 8:04 pm
The young Lamb der Sloot shall be the sacrifice for the Arawaks and the cowboys.
All will sit around the fire and feast on scapegoat.
The gods are talking
DirtyHand is alive and well

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 8:06 pm
Babalu opened a window looking into Babylon on his 12:31 A.M. post


Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 8:11 pm
One straight path
to the house of Rave,
while of gold bricks
the road is not paved,
answers mysterious lie within
magical letters which spell sin
XTC DNA



He doesn't post again until after Tim Miller visits Greta that night and says he has discontinued the search of the quarry:

Shango on June 27th, 2005 9:46 pm
Shango said the key to the Hague did not exist
that door to eden remains closed
until the house with the path
But not of gold is entered










Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Observer on June 30, 2008, 01:29:34 PM
Hyacintho Rudy Croes has 2 young boys,unless he has others I doubt any of them are involved.

CROES HYACINTHO RUDOLFO SANTA CRUZ 124

(http://img74.imageshack.us/img74/5079/rudycroesfamilyoj2.png) (http://imageshack.us)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 30, 2008, 03:44:15 PM
Poochy - I think it was the 26th or 27th when Simian suddenly posted that they had found a decapitated body and Julia Renfron went through that performance of driving everyone to the police station that was no longer being used. I feel that this was another orchestrated diversion to keep the press away from something else.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on June 30, 2008, 05:33:41 PM
Poochy - I think it was the 26th or 27th when Simian suddenly posted that they had found a decapitated body and Julia Renfro went through that performance of driving everyone to the police station that was no longer being used. I feel that this was another orchestrated diversion to keep the press away from something else.

 It would need to be determined who the fake Simian was in order to substantiate this idea.  It would certainly be interesting to know who posted those fake posts since they originated in the USA and from an area where several posters were pro Sloot.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: sharon on June 30, 2008, 06:49:55 PM


Been doing some homework on ‘Was Simian trying to distract us from the real truth?’ –  he  pointed at the Fifth suspect, and reinforced the Steve Croes’ story of creating an alibi. ‘The music man’s song was not on the bill.’ He then came back as Mirian and pointed at Freddy in the famous pic.

Is it a coincidence that he made his first posts, on 6/17, under this FP heading
…“BREAKING NEWS: 4th Person Arrested in Natalee Holloway case (CORRECTION NO 5th PERSON)”?

He returns on Wednesday,6/22 around 11AM, beginning with the insurance fraud and ending at 6PM with ‘a simple party at his house’. He goes from 3 posts on 6/17 about Chandra Levy, to a barrage of them on 6/22, defending Aruba, criticizing the US and finally introducing the 5th. Suspect.

Thursday,6/23, he begins posting around 10.30, ‘He is too afraid to confess’ and quits shortly after 3PM.with ‘Steve Croes is singing’.

Friday, 6/24, ‘Anybody want a blessing from Saint Alibi’, again around 10.30 and ends around 6.15 with a post to Ally in Pap, about an imposter.

Saturday, 6/25, At 6.47PM, ‘There are 3 vehicles’. He continues unti around 10.30 ending with impersonators, doppelgangers and no more clues.

Sunday,6/26, At 2.58PM, ‘The music man’s song was not on the bill’. He continues through 11.37PM and ‘how can the gamblers be wrong about the girl?’

Monday, 6/27, At 9.13AM, back to work…starting slow and then finishing up at 12.20 with three consecutive posts in Pap.

Tuesday, 6/28. 1.42 AM., ‘The Simian has a handicap of 12.’ Continues until 3.10AM, spatting with Shango. Returns at 5PM and again posts about an imposter, leaves and returns at 8.15PM, with ‘They will all take a tumble soon.’ Another post about the silence in the brook and them being liars too.

Wednesday, 6/29. 11.45AM, posts about the boys from the neighourhood. Three posts about this and tickets being changed, in around 15 minutes, and leaves. He returns at 2.18Pm, with ‘They have too much on the boy.’ Reposts the same post a minute later and ends shortly after with ‘on her way to Panama with the help of the Carib.’

Thursday, 6/30, 10.18AM, a post about the ex-boyfriend. Ends with ‘The music man would lose to a lettuce at a spelling bee….’at 4.24PM. This is the end of Simian. Returns as Mono at 6.20 and makes three posts in Pap.

Friday, 7/1. 10.30AM. two posts as Baboon…

It appears that Simian may have been a paid shill…he spent a lot of his workday posting on the FP of SM! Hmmm…reinforces my thoughts on ‘Freddy’!

Now where would that leave us with Shango?



Excellent Mum  ::MonkeyDance::

How come on Sunday the 26th Simian starts posting in a riddle? "The music man's song was not on the bill?" He seems to be pretty 'direct' up until that point.

And Shango KNEW what he meant. Because he replied about the other babylonian playing in the orchestra  ::MonkeyHaHa::

I asked this the other day...How did they KNOW what the other was talking about? It's been 3 years and we still don't. But they did.

And continued to.

Anyone with any thoughts or explanations?


Lala's

I know what you mean  ::MonkeyWaa::

But if it was intended as a 'distraction' it really backfired -- because Shango and Simian ALWAYS gave us plenty of fodder when times were slow. And we're still here.

Standing with the girl.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 30, 2008, 07:03:59 PM
Poochy - I think it was the 26th or 27th when Simian suddenly posted that they had found a decapitated body and Julia Renfro went through that performance of driving everyone to the police station that was no longer being used. I feel that this was another orchestrated diversion to keep the press away from something else.

 It would need to be determined who the fake Simian was in order to substantiate this idea.  It would certainly be interesting to know who posted those fake posts since they originated in the USA and from an area where several posters were pro Sloot.




Hi LaLa's - I love your new outfit.  I'm really stuck with these possible diversions.  I suspect Renfro was involved, however, I need some more evidence.  We need to know who was being arrested on those days other than just a man in his 20s from Oranjestadt.  If we can identify the motive then we can probably link the culprit.  Fake Simian announced the decapitated body, so we'd need to know who he/she was.  Did he inform Renfro or was it the other way around?  Where did Tiel get the info on the car chase on the 11th?  Any ideas for hunting these people down?  I've been trying to follow the pro Sloot angle and I'm not getting anywhere.

It amazes me how masterful these Arubans have been at hiding details about people and getting incorrect information into the media.  At this point, how much accurate information do we even have about this case and the perps?  What this island has gotten away with is frightening.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: ospainter on June 30, 2008, 08:43:43 PM
More "Music"

(http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p149/Morgan2112_2006/HYROODUBER-GLORIAESTEBAN2.jpg)

http://www.gloriaestefan-italia.com/uk/englista.asp

Hi Everyone,

Rob

Hyro Oduber made posts on this forum: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/natalee/msearch?query=hyro+oduber&pos=0&cnt=10 back in 05.

Also, see his name here: http://www.arubaaviation.com/

OS


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Silverfox on June 30, 2008, 09:11:30 PM
btw - fwiw

"Bird on a Wire"

Also a Movie starring Mel Gibson, Goldie Hawn and David Carradine

A movie about the a man in the Witness Protection Program (Gibson) running from a member of a drug cartel (Carradine).


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on June 30, 2008, 09:40:16 PM
btw - fwiw

"Bird on a Wire"

Also a Movie starring Mel Gibson, Goldie Hawn and David Carradine

A movie about the a man in the Witness Protection Program (Gibson) running from a member of a drug cartel (Carradine).

Now that would totally explain the immediate presence of FBI and the Elder's kiddies fleeing One Happy Island. (I always loved Goldie ) :)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on June 30, 2008, 09:48:26 PM
More "Music"

(http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p149/Morgan2112_2006/HYROODUBER-GLORIAESTEBAN2.jpg)

http://www.gloriaestefan-italia.com/uk/englista.asp

Hi Everyone,

Rob

Hyro Oduber made posts on this forum: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/natalee/msearch?query=hyro+oduber&pos=0&cnt=10 back in 05.

Also, see his name here: http://www.arubaaviation.com/

OS

Gonna digress here for a wee bit cuz of the private airplane mention... Unfortunately all the 'dreams and visions' posts have gone kaput but I got some saved on my pooter. I recall one dream posted of Natalee being drugged, dizzy, thinking she was in a car and complaining she was heading the wrong way away from her hotel. And she looked out the window she noticed there was no way to make a u-turn' to go back the other way. Off to her left was the Hooiberg hill, but it was bright red in color and then the person who had the dream said Natalee passed out while sitting on the left side of the 'vehicle' (aka airplane) with her head leaning on the window. The dreamer said they googled Hooiberg and immediately recognized the airport runway as the 'road' Natalee was being "driven" aka flown down with the Hooiberg off to the left. They felt natalee thought she was in a car, but was actually going down a runway.
 
Ok, done digressin'. Carry on!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on June 30, 2008, 10:20:28 PM
Hi Everyone,

Rob

Hyro Oduber made posts on this forum: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/natalee/msearch?query=hyro+oduber&pos=0&cnt=10 back in 05.

Also, see his name here: http://www.arubaaviation.com/

OS


OS,

What 2 bros are on the other side of Joran, the Gottenbos family who have "Gotten da bos" out of Aruba?

From the link you posted above:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/natalee/message/498

> --- In natalee@yahoogroups.com, "Steve" <phoenics4peace@b...> wrote:
> > Oh hell. Thanks for the confirmation. Not good news, but news...
> >
> >
> > --- In natalee@yahoogroups.com, lauransteve@a... wrote:
> > > yes its been comfirmed there has been a hit early this afternoon by
> > the dogs in a quarry behind VDS house on one side and the 2 brothers house
> > on the other side.
CNN and Scared Monkyes are the sourse and that there
> > was evidence flags going up



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 30, 2008, 10:59:47 PM
Mum - I've been thinking about your idea that Simian was a shill.  It does make sense.  Now, who paid him - ALE or Julia?  We were told that his father was part of the clean up detail and Steve is his cousin.  Why would he be giving the world any information about this crime if he had two family members involved?  For the right price, he might have been very willing to confuse the investigation.  He could easily have been a planned part of the diversions with the decapitated body and the car chase.  This would mean that a lot of the information that we have is absolutely useless.


LaLa's - Rudy's sons are so young, but are there others?  Did I read once that he has been married more than once?  Is the information below accurate or way off base?  Is Rudy the biological father of one of the ones that we are looking at?  Let's assume for a moment that the information below is correct.  We could start to eliminate possiblities based on whether we can identify the father.  That would leave Freddy, Guido?, Steve Croes, or an unknown that we aren't aware of.  I think we're back to square one.  ::MonkeyConfused::

No the 5th is Rudy croes son
Where are the Children of Rudy Croes.
Find the children...BTW Rudy Croes like making movies
Find the Children
Rudy has sons out of wetlock. will check it out
E.G. Rudy Croes likes to go to Montana Aprt 101, not to far from Joran house and hide his USV behinde the building and so to spend the night with this Colombian Girls. He do forget sometimes how many permit does he give to these chineese business people who hire only colombians bar mate in exchange for cases of Heineken and sexual favors. There is so dirt that even after presure wash it still will not come off.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on June 30, 2008, 11:16:41 PM
NativeLingo wrote:

last night police had decoys pulling the press in all directions…..they will avoid a media orgy at all cost…..

Jun 11, 2:00 PM  

Klaas posted this on the NH thread.  Check the date.  Could Simian be one of the decoys?  Somebody orchestrated that car chase.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: finngirl on July 01, 2008, 12:10:48 AM
OS

What 2 bros are on the other side of Joran, the Gottenbos family who have "Gotten da bos" out of Aruba?

From the link you posted above:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/natalee/message/498

> --- In natalee@yahoogroups.com, "Steve" <phoenics4peace@b...> wrote:
> > Oh hell. Thanks for the confirmation. Not good news, but news...
> >
> >
> > --- In natalee@yahoogroups.com, lauransteve@a... wrote:
> > > yes its been comfirmed there has been a hit early this afternoon by
> > the dogs in a quarry behind VDS house on one side and the 2 brothers house
> > on the other side.
CNN and Scared Monkyes are the sourse and that there
> > was evidence flags going up

not OS ... but IIRC the street Montanja wraps around ...
so the vdS home #19 and Freddy's townhouse #39-F
have back yards/back lots in common

someone posted long ago that you could
hop the vdS back fence/go thru the empty lot behind
and head diagonally a few doors down
to the back of the townhouses where Freddy lived

there was a google map at one time IIRC

we're fairly sure that Freddy has one brother/Ernesto
and altho he hasn't lived at the family home for awhile
that does make "two brothers"

no idea whether or not there's another step/half bro
who may have lived in the townhouse when Freddy did

also, Jaime Carrasquilla lived at 232 Montanja ...
no idea where that house is in relation to vdS home,
no idea whether or not Jaime has a bro

yes, the search dogs reportedly "hit" in the water
at the Moko quarry which is near that neighborhood ...
and shango had begun posting the previous night



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: finngirl on July 01, 2008, 12:29:48 AM

If you’re going to live like a bird on a wire, you must know of many wires on which to roost, so when the hunter approaches to draw a bead on you, he won’t be able to find you.
http://tinyurl.com/4yykbn
_ _ _ _ _

(jail)bird on the wire = jailhouse informant




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: finngirl on July 01, 2008, 12:32:25 AM

which car chase are we discussing?

the Hubert Tiel/Diario chase
or the Julia-led-everyone-to-the-courthouse chase?



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on July 01, 2008, 08:00:40 AM
OS

What 2 bros are on the other side of Joran, the Gottenbos family who have "Gotten da bos" out of Aruba?

From the link you posted above:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/natalee/message/498

> --- In natalee@yahoogroups.com, "Steve" <phoenics4peace@b...> wrote:
> > Oh hell. Thanks for the confirmation. Not good news, but news...
> >
> >
> > --- In natalee@yahoogroups.com, lauransteve@a... wrote:
> > > yes its been comfirmed there has been a hit early this afternoon by
> > the dogs in a quarry behind VDS house on one side and the 2 brothers house
> > on the other side.
CNN and Scared Monkyes are the sourse and that there
> > was evidence flags going up

not OS ... but IIRC the street Montanja wraps around ...
so the vdS home #19 and Freddy's townhouse #39-F
have back yards/back lots in common...There is a map somewhere in the first thread from Caps, and I will find it, but IIRC, neither 39f or 62 Montanja have back yards in common...

someone posted long ago that you could
hop the vdS back fence/go thru the empty lot behind
and head diagonally a few doors down
to the back of the townhouses where Freddy lived...checking on this...found the link to the place that was for sale in August 2005, more questions...

there was a google map at one time IIRC

we're fairly sure that Freddy has one brother/Ernesto
and altho he hasn't lived at the family home for awhile
that does make "two brothers"...Can't find a connection to Freddy and Ernesto, or anything that even puts Ernesto anywhere near Aruba other than Sasha's birthday pic, put on the web on 6/13/2005...looking into the the defunct site that it was posted on...more questions?

no idea whether or not there's another step/half bro
who may have lived in the townhouse when Freddy did

also, Jaime Carrasquilla lived at 232 Montanja ...
no idea where that house is in relation to vdS home,
no idea whether or not Jaime has a bro...IIRC he has a brother and a sister...will check that map for #232

yes, the search dogs reportedly "hit" in the water
at the Moko quarry which is near that neighborhood ...
and shango had begun posting the previous night




Quick answers on this Finn...I am still working on it...Lots of questions, no answers...

One stickler for me is a Venezuelan, Freddy, that only speaks Pap, when documents show his mother was born in Aruba. If he only spoke one language it should be Spanish!!!

To be continued... ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on July 01, 2008, 08:32:49 AM
Let me remind everyone...the conversations between Simian and Shango and others was just that a conversation between FP posters at the time.  It must be read and understood in the context in which it was written.  It may mean absolutely nothing in the long run except people talking to each other about the case. 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on July 01, 2008, 08:50:47 AM

which car chase are we discussing?

the Hubert Tiel/Diario chase
or the Julia-led-everyone-to-the-courthouse chase?





Good Morning Finngirl - the car chase was the one inolving Tiel.  I think it was the
11th.  Finding the decapitated body and the race to the closed police station were the 26th or 27th when "fake Simian" appeared.  I suspect that both were fronts.  The car chase occured at the same time that an unidentified man in his 20s was arrested.

I recall reading somewhere that Rudy was married at one point to Jossy's niece.  I think that I have also read that he was divorced and remarried.  If this is true, he could have older children, as well as illegitimate children.  Does anyone have any idea how we could find out if this is true?  We really need to locate the fathers of Freddy and Guido.  Guido has returned to my radar again because he did have the most serious charges filed against him.  He also had a relationship with Urine that could have led to the jealousy issue over Natalee.  Natalee would have met Guido while he was working in the casino.  Chemaly is still on my radar, but not as a 5th - it's too much of a stretch.  I do think that he was involved in the disposal with Davin and Julia's boat.  Who had the alibi?

If the dogs did in fact get a hit at the first pond and if ALE may have found something in the recently drained pond, these are two very different locations.  Were they placing evidence all over the island during that initial 10 day period?  There is also the shallow grave in the dunes and GVCs shirt in still another location.  I have been wondering if Chemaly and friends could have actually disposed of Natalee, but special members of the black team were later assigned to take care of the evidence by scattering it everywhere.  The former police chief would certainly know how to handle evidence and effectively plant it.  Was this to protect nephew Steve or another relative?  Was Rufo also in charge of "dusting" the apts.?  17 year olds didn't do all of this by themsleves.  Who is paying for all of their lawyers?  Was Armin a shill?  This coverup is so deep.  Was Destiny's sneaker placed there recently by someone who wants to create publicity and headaches for ALE because maybe they did find Urine's sneaker in the drained pond?

LALA He Knows but he can not talk. It is his Father that went with the Black Team to do the cleanup that night.  

We need a wealthy benefactor who could buy the Matty Apts. and have a forensics team go through every crevice.  The next step will probably be for the apts. to suddenly be demolished.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Blonde on July 01, 2008, 09:53:35 AM
Poochy - I think it was the 26th or 27th when Simian suddenly posted that they had found a decapitated body and Julia Renfro went through that performance of driving everyone to the police station that was no longer being used. I feel that this was another orchestrated diversion to keep the press away from something else.

 It would need to be determined who the fake Simian was in order to substantiate this idea.  It would certainly be interesting to know who posted those fake posts since they originated in the USA and from an area where several posters were pro Sloot.




Hi LaLa's - I love your new outfit.  I'm really stuck with these possible diversions.  I suspect Renfro was involved, however, I need some more evidence.  We need to know who was being arrested on those days other than just a man in his 20s from Oranjestadt.  If we can identify the motive then we can probably link the culprit.  Fake Simian announced the decapitated body, so we'd need to know who he/she was.  Did he inform Renfro or was it the other way around?  Where did Tiel get the info on the car chase on the 11th?  Any ideas for hunting these people down?  I've been trying to follow the pro Sloot angle and I'm not getting anywhere.

It amazes me how masterful these Arubans have been at hiding details about people and getting incorrect information into the media.  At this point, how much accurate information do we even have about this case and the perps?  What this island has gotten away with is frightening.

SS why don't you email Jossy and ask for Tiel's email address and ask him.
 You never know he might tell you.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: ospainter on July 01, 2008, 11:14:40 AM


OS,

What 2 bros are on the other side of Joran, the Gottenbos family who have "Gotten da bos" out of Aruba?

From the link you posted above:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/natalee/message/498

> --- In natalee@yahoogroups.com, "Steve" <phoenics4peace@b...> wrote:
> > Oh hell. Thanks for the confirmation. Not good news, but news...
> >
> >
> > --- In natalee@yahoogroups.com, lauransteve@a... wrote:
> > > yes its been comfirmed there has been a hit early this afternoon by
> > the dogs in a quarry behind VDS house on one side and the 2 brothers house
> > on the other side.
CNN and Scared Monkyes are the sourse and that there
> > was evidence flags going up



Hi,

Sorry I have no idea, was just posting because Rob mentioned Hyro Oduber. But it's an interesting question.

OS



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on July 01, 2008, 01:02:03 PM


OS,

What 2 bros are on the other side of Joran, the Gottenbos family who have "Gotten da bos" out of Aruba?

From the link you posted above:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/natalee/message/498

> --- In natalee@yahoogroups.com, "Steve" <phoenics4peace@b...> wrote:
> > Oh hell. Thanks for the confirmation. Not good news, but news...
> >
> >
> > --- In natalee@yahoogroups.com, lauransteve@a... wrote:
> > > yes its been comfirmed there has been a hit early this afternoon by
> > the dogs in a quarry behind VDS house on one side and the 2 brothers house
> > on the other side.
CNN and Scared Monkyes are the sourse and that there
> > was evidence flags going up



Hi,

Sorry I have no idea, was just posting because Rob mentioned Hyro Oduber. But it's an interesting question.

OS




I think they are talking about the Kalpoes on the other side of the island. 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on July 01, 2008, 11:44:20 PM
I guess this is a bit of off topic from the codetalkers, but today I received an email with this link:

http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/51692

I read this a while ago, and the article assumes Natalee is not dead, but is very much alive (was she sold in exchange for a gambling debt?) The article assumes Natalee is wondering why nobody is looking for her--it is because everybody is looking for her dead body in the landfill, ponds, ocean.  Maybe that was the diversion discussed a few posts up - she is alive and not dead.

Well today another friend sent me this article.
http://www.americanfreepress.net/html/pows_still_in_laos_142.html

My friend's dad is also a POW from the Viet Nam war. Please keep both men in prayer (and also Natalee) and that one day soon they will be reunited with their families after all these years. I post because I know how corrupt governments can be, including the USA govt.

A NYC couple was just sentenced for slavery. Is this the new thing? Are there slave owners living around the world buying and selling slaves and nobody is doing anything about it?  I also remember Amy Bradley-lured off a cruise ship to go to C&C and then poof - gone. Is that what these perps are so afraid of?  Working the rest of their lives as a slave in one of these horror slave camps if the talk? 
 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on July 02, 2008, 06:24:49 AM
From Finngirl…From page 11 of this thread…Finn…this has the F.A. quote in it…Thanks...lots of info in these posts...

Interesting where all the ?information as to Freddy’s identity and initials came from….Where was Art Wood getting his info from? Was he in Aruba? Is Jossy saying that Freddy was arrested early in regards to the video tapings? Is Jamie being implicated here?…And where is/are the statements that even bondia said, in another post was questioned as were all the ISA students? Where are all the ISA students statements, or mentions of them in the log?…On a partial list of ISA students, I think at RWV, there wasn’t a M. Arends, only a A.Arends! Who or what group was bondia checking with???

If Freddy was arrested early in regards to the video tapings, why are all his statements in the Dr. Phil Log, but not the ones for the August arrest…Lots of questions as to who is named, or misnamed on that Log????…Seems some-one was very selective as to what info was given to Deepak’s attorney….



4:59 pm AZLady:
Who are the other two in custody, besides the Kalpoes? Freddy and someone else?

5:05 pm AZLady:
Arubagirl, were the Kalpoes and two others arrested? Or the Kalpoes and one other guy? I can't find accurate info.

5:06 pm klaasend:
No...only Freddy. Not sure if there's more, I'm thinking not.

5:06 pm sunmoonstars:
Catherine Crier Fri

Based on the same suspicions as before. There are new suspicions, or they couldn't re arrest the K brothers.

Art Wood: We have known for a long time that the LE have statements from these boys. They know where Natalee is.
 
Freddy Arandashi?? Uses the name Freddy Arends, he is a close friend and neighbor of Jorans.

5:07 pm arubagirl:
AZlady, on the radio said that four new arrests were made, but then I heard it was only three.

Anyway, I heard the name of one guy, but I don't know if it's right or not.

5:08 pm sunmoonstars:
AG: Art Wood is saying Freddy Arandashi?? also says he goes by Freddy Arends.

5:09 pm  arubagirl:
I think it's not Arends. I'll check it out on Monday.

5:10 pm DT:
The ex-girlfriend of Joran, Melody or whatever, is saying on RWV that the guy's name is Freddy Zedan.

5:12 pm sunmoonstars:
AG: They said a neighbor and friend of Jorans. Does that help?

5:14 pm arubagirl:
Well, if he is a neighbour and lives in the same neighbourhood (montanja), then I can check, hold on.

5:14 pm barbiegirl23:
This Freddy is listed as a doubles tennis partner of Joran in the Aruban paper of Sept 2004...

5:15 pm arubagirl:
There is an Arends that lives at Montanja... Check the other last names.

5:16 pm arubagirl:
No person named Zedan in the phone book, not that it means that he doesn't exist, just not in the phone book.

5:17 pm arubagirl:
Nor Arandashi / Arendashi.

5:17 pm klaasend:
I'm thinking it's Freddy Arends: Blue shirt on left - middle with cap on right.
 
5:19 pm arubagirl:
Yes that's who I thought it was as well. Why don't these things happen on a Friday? Now I have to wait a whole weekend to find out more. BLECH!

5:22 pm DT:
Jossy: We don't know that he was arrested in relation to this case, though he was questioned about it at the beginning. We have heard that he had alibi that said he was with Joran that night.  

Dan Riehl said earlier that the Freddy guy is the same person who was staying at Joran's apartment that night.

5:22 pm whodunit:
Does HE  live at Aruba Racquet Club?

5:24 pm fluffy monkey:
Geraldo said that this guy was a fake alibi and faked that he stayed with Joran that night.

5:24 pm nancy drew:
http://www.aeromodelers.sr.org/david/am28sep04.pdf  28 sept 2004
B-Doubles team Freddy Zedan/Joran van der Sloot beat Peter Villevoix/Lex Burgman in a surprise sweep


5:25 pm arubagirl:
No, owner of the place told me the homes are only used as vacation homes by wealthy tourists.

5:26 pm fluffy monkey:
Wonder if "someone" has a key to one of them....

5:28 pm whodunit:
Hmmm...maybe it could at least explain what the boys were doing late that night (3am) near the ARC. Maybe meeting his tennis partner.......hmmmmm

5:32 pm odds on:
Who - For what it's worth, the AM Digitel article (link posted above)about the September 2004 tennis tounament that jvds and Freddy Z won took place at the Aruba Racquet Club. Coincidences abound.

5:42 pm HannieC:
if there is a 4th person arrested then i think it`s significant that nobody seems to know who that person is nor his initials or name...Makes me wonder who that is.....(and then i`m not thinking of Paulus). BTW...

5:44 pm bondia/Julia Renfro:
Freddy Z.

Freddy's middle name is Alexander and it is customary to never use somebody’s last name in Aruba until they have been charged.

The rules were obviously broken in Natalee's case as it has been a free for all of accusations since the Beginning.


6:01 pm sunmoonstars:
Catherine Crier/Friday

Crier: Can you tell me anything about this Freddy?

Jossy: We hear 2 versions: The official press release that the prosecution put out did not mention him at all. People are under the impression that his arrest may be related to another case. He was arrested in the beginning with relation to this same case. There is no mention from the police in regards to this third man. Third man is a friend of them, partied with them, many pics with him. He was questioned in the beginning in regards to the Natalee case.

Crier: Do you have any info as to his whereabouts the night Natalee disappeared?

Jossy: I hear his alibi is that he was with Joran


6:02 pm WonderWoman:
ARAMBATZIS-RODRIGUEZ ALBERT, LILIAN REGINA, MONTANJA 39-F


6:02 pm AZLady:
I found an ARAMBATZIS-RODRIGUEZ, ALBERT and LILIAN REGINA who live in MONTANJA.
http://www.arubachamber.com/LC%20KLEIN%2005-06-2005.htm

6:07 pm klaasend:
So why is Bondia saying the last name starts with a Z ?
6:08 pm

arubagirl:
I have no idea. I'm guessing that Bon Dia is checking back with the group.

6:09 pm Shell:
Maybe the stop at the other bar that was mentioned was to pick up Freddy? Just thinking

6:14 pm RobertJ:
BINGO! Directory listing: Arambatzis, Freddy. Aruba. I've got his e-mail and his TICKLE site too: Freddy Locoman Pimp

6:16 pm NativeLingo:
ARAMBATZIS-RODRIGUEZ ALBERT, LILIAN REGINA, MONTANJA 39-F

could be either Venezuelan or Colombian....only they use 2 last names here...


6:19 pm DT:
Jossy says: Freddy arrested on charges of taking and selling pictures of young naked girls. He was questioned initially in the NH case.


6:21 pm WidgetTheMidget:
Dont Be Surprised If What Happened To Natalee Was Recorded ........

6:21 pm bondia/Julia Renfro:
As we have already told RED, SM usually knows what it going on before MSM and 99% of Aruba. Based on the Tennis match from AM Digital and the initials givin by the police F.A. (and usually most people in Aruba have at least 3 if not 4 initials in thier name) We were told that Joran has a friend named Freddy Alexander.

Since Jossy was the one who found the girls with the rape accusations, we are sure that he has the right Name since it is his find.
 

ARAMBATZIS in Montana sounds like a winner! Thanks for the Good work Monkeys.

6:25 pm DT: Aruban attorney: I doubt that it is a coincidence this guy was arrested at the same time and lived near Joran.

6:28 pm DT: Aruban Attorney: It is possible that the Kalpoes stated Joran sexually assaulted Natalee, and were still released.

6:31 pm NativeLingo: DT, it wasn't a coincidence...

6:32 pm nancy drew: They said it on Abrams...the part about Freddy knowing about the disposal of the body...

6:42 pm sandraK: Freddy Cuz..Lissette' ...lives..in Usa.... her Mom maybe is... Rebeca Zedan (Female, 52) Location: Venezuela. his aunty?? or something?

6:43 pm tcumom: Does anyone remember Geraldo's comments looooong time ago about porn stuff and pics? Think I'm remembering correctly.....just a comment.

6:45 pm DT: Yeah I brought this up earlier, it would be insane if Geraldo turned out to be right. I can't think of one person who believed him when said this.

6:46 pm cancon: indeed I remember it clear as day, what was puzzling that Geraldo never mentioned it again, not to my recollection, until perhaps today, maybe the Aruban LE contacted him and asked him to hush up? and for once one of Geraldo's wild statements could be coming true.........

6:51 pm writenow: If Freddy has been brought in and Freddy, Joran & Jaime Carrasquilla were all best friends, is Jaime next to be arrested? BTW Satish is now calling himself the King of bling bling on his tickle site. Good grief. Maybe he's getting the bling bling from selling pics of naked girls.

7:17 pm friend of monkey: but Vanderstraten does have a son jorans age? or not known?

7:18 pm HannieC: I believe his youngest son is 24 and the oldest 33 or 34

7:31 pm sandrak: Rebeca Zedan (Female, 52) Location: Venezuela. Aunty ??

7:33 pm bondia/Julia Renfro: WRITENOW said earlier that Jaime would be arrested! Are you part of the ALE or a clairvoyant of a Monkey PI. Who can spell his last name right?

7:37 pm sandrak: Jaime Carrasquilla7:38 pm the big hammer: 1. The 2:40am call is the link w/ video to k residence to download. Call may have linked to assault live? Depends on duration of call. 2. 3:10 am is the voice call to say: "something's wrong -- come get me." 3. From k2 residence, numerous 3rd parties could link in to view the 2:40am "show."7:39 pm Shell: Tito was listed on that tickle site of Freddy. When I looked at it when RobertJ first posted, Ruben Trapenberg was on there also, then when I went back a while later, his photo (RT) was gone. Maybe I don't understand how tickle sites work.

7:39 pm bondia/Julia Renfro:Good Try SANDRA K, but I have another spelling, but I have been wrong before. Rumors are strong that he will be picked up tomorrow.

7:43 pm bondia/Julia Renfro: The Rumor on Aruba was that four were arrested today, but the police confirmed only 3, possibly another tomorrow. We spoke to Jaime and he thinks it is about some pictures that were taken in April, but they were deleted after the girl asked them to. He said they weren't illicit, but she didn't like them. They have all continued a friendship relationship since and he is surprised that she would be complaining now. Jaime also lives in Montana. To make it clear, he didn't even know that anyone has made a complaint, but that is the only thing he could think anyone could complain about. Since then, the girl has remained friends with all of them - even been to family parties at Joran's house.

7:53 pm sandraK: bondia, Anyone with..."SA"..... as Nic?

7:55 pm  writenow: You're funny bondia. Monkey ALE PI clairvoyant. My new title. I posed it as a question not a fact. You tell me -- are they going to arrest Jaime? he's tight with Freddy and Joran. Makes sense he's in this, too.7:55 pm cancon: well I thought he said 2:30 am, could the assault have taken place before 2:40 am, 2:30 am they just transmitted the video file at 2:40 am under a pretence which would mean real premeditation if they had already worked out their alibis in advance here........ you can tape and save a video file on those phones too, may not have been live........

7:56 pm bondia/Julia Renfro: Hi SANDRAK It was spelled out for us as Carasquia, but since he made his own tickle site, I will give him credit that he knows how to spell his own name, although... As for SA - we would need more details.

8:00 pm sandrak: Time will tell ....

8:13 pm crazybabyborg: Jossy: Freddy provided an alibi for Joran

8:14 pm crazybabyborg: Jossy: my info from our sources in the LE is that 3 girls came forward with statements of being date drugged and raped

8:15 pm writenow: Oh, one more thing. Jaime lives on the same street as the van der Sloots. Jaime Carrasquilla/Carrasquilla, Acuna Omar/Montanja 232

8:19 pm suz3nscar: Sometimes I think Nancy Grace is nuts....just came back on the air with Elvis' Jailhouse Rock playing 8:21 pm san: On NG lawyer stated Freddy won't be able to have a lawyer for several days

8:22 pm sooz: NG says CNN is trying to confirm the arrest of a 4th suspect. Did I miss something?8:22 pm fluffy monkey: Freddie takes pictures for the Pimp Gang" says the guy on NG8:24 pm sooz: OMG!! NG is going to tick off the Arubans again. She looked straight at the camera and said "Attention Aruban police. Separate cells!"8:27 pm onesillymonkey: NG - Kalpoe bros. not being questioned right away. Letting them sit, being informed that they will be prosecuted to the full extent of the law for the seriousness of crimes they are accused of - this is a method to induce fear into them in order to get them to more easily talk when the interrogations begin. They are being careful not to try and force information out of them that can later be thrown out due to a forced confession. Fourth suspect IS in connection with NH case.

8:32 pm pj: No one knows anything about a fourth suspect being arrested. I think someone said maybe tomorrow.

9:03 pm san: from tv for those w/o the channel: Freddy's involvment in the case is with a car.

9:05 pm I hear shango: Helen Lejuez said Freddy....physical evidence regarding the car......

9:06 pm nancydrew: Hannity and Colmes.... Helen: says this is considered a gang rape...Freddy was brought in due to the car (which car???) .

Paul Reynolds: First time he's heard the term "gang rape"

H/C: Is this a homicide?

Paul Reynolds: Joran said Deepak raped, murdered Natalee

Helen: 60 Days now for the boys brought in today. The prosecutor told her this has to do with murder and rape. She has more info not from the prosecutor, and it is quite secure.

9:08 pm arubagirl: So much for the gang-rape being 'secret', which my source told me it was.

9:10 pm justinsmama: Is that what you were going to reveal around the 4th? Or part of it, anyway?

9:10 DT:Do you know anything more about this?9:11 pm arubagirl:no, this I heard today.

9:11 pm little miss: Secret from who?

9:12 pm arubagirl: No, nothing more, only about the gang-rape taking place.

9:13 pm DT: Does this involve all of the boys, or just the three?

9:14 pm friend of monkey: freddy lives behind jorans apartment...on FOX

9:14 pm arubagirl: All of them.

9:16 pm nancydrew: Hannity and Colmes. Reporter/Aruba... It's a "commission based crime." Freddy lives in the neighborhood.

9:20 pm I hear shango: jossy said there are a total of 6 girls who have come forward....not including Natalee.....

9:22 pm sooz: Hmmm, another vote for a 4th new suspect in jail today.

Hannity and Colmes transcript: Friday August 27

Helen: Him (Freddie A) and another detainee in jail right now. Freddie is a friend of Jorans and has something to do with the car. According to my (Helen’s) sources, he is part of the “gang” and what we are getting is that he is involved in the rape case and it has to do with the car. I have other news that I haven’t yet confirmed, another young man who hasn’t yet been brought before the judge.

Uncle: That is the first time I have heard that phrase used (gang rape) We have heard sexual assault.


9:26 pm candygirl: Maybe its freddy's place they went back to? I sure hope the LE is doing a search there!

9:32 pm fluffymonkey: Larry King Live, Friday August 26, 2005

Dave Holloway : We were concerned about September 4 date coming up but now it looks like Joran is probably not going to be let go. FBI called and told us about Kalpoe brothers and Freddy. Prosecutor is very confident.

 Steve Holloway (uncle): Very happy they arrested K2, maybe we can find out a little more.

Harris Faulkner (Current Affair): Polis said FBI made a difference and gave them confidence. The polis were very involved and busy in keeping up with K2.

Cardoza: Young women have come forward saying K2 were involved in using date rape drugs Now police can turn up the heat even though it didn’t have to do with NH case.

9:38 pm I hear shango: polis chief was not overhead saying how can i do this to my best friend's son....he was on national tv saying it...I saw it with my own eyes.

9:41 pm peaches: Vinda just said they collected DNA from the VDS property.

9:51pm margaritaville: CNN just mentioned the Tickle sites!!!

9:55 pm peaches: Harris Faulkner just said they keyed into the boys from the start and got their cell phone #s from their Tickle sites. Called 'em up.

9:56 pm fluffymonkey: Harris: Current Affair pulled info from TICKLE!!!!! Three guys described themselves as having healthy sex lives (Joran, particularly) Thinks it is relevant to look at lifestyle, says tickle is explicit, AND THE WAY CURRENT AFFAIR GOT IN TOUCH WITH JORAN THE FIRST TIME WAS FROM HIS CELL PHONE NUMBER ON TICKLE

10:01 pm friend of monkey: early on a gang bang tape w/ joran and a 14 yr old was mentioned here..

10:03 pm kackylacky: yes by Geraldo...............and we all scoffed.10:28 pm crazybabyborg:  Anyone know what the nature of the alibi was that Freddy supplied for Joran?

10:30 pm DT: From what I understand, he said he stayed at Joran's apartment that night, which is something he and other friends often do. He claimed Joran got home at a certain time, and that he said he had met an American girl, but that nothing sexual had taken place.

10:41 pm sleddogs: "At the beginning of the show they were talking about Freddy being linked somehow due to the car. Not sure which car...but, they referred to the info from the gardener... "

If I remember right a while back when they first brought the gardener in wasn't there a problem with him not being able to identify one of the K2's? Maybe that was because the other person in the car that night was later identified as Freddy.

10:42 pm kackylacky: Jossy said on Abrams this afternoon, that freddy told ALE he was "with" joran that night...........and that was all that was said about it. The usual comments about that not being too smart was what followed.......no further detail. But I am thinking freddy may have tried to alibi joran for the time after the HI drop off.............which begs the question.........why did they arrest steve for giving deepak an alibi, but did not arrest freddy for doing the same for joran. Interesting.............

10:48 pm pj: Yet Joran went to school bragging about having sex, am I right?

10:49 pm kackylacky: when in fact, both of them could have been with her at joran's or at freddy's......................Vinda said tonight that DNA was collected at joran's........I didn't hear if she said what kind or much more than it was collected.

If, according to Helen, freddy is also attached to this case because of a car............could freddy have provided joran with transportation (remember the walk with only one shoe line) or moving the body?





Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Observer on July 02, 2008, 02:03:14 PM
Is this Freddys sister Sasha? The birthdate doesnt appears to be right but she says she lives in noord and about the same age.

    sasha rodriguez
Date of birth
    08/05/1990
Location
    noord
    Aruba

http://en.netlog.com/sasha_v


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on July 02, 2008, 03:22:19 PM
Is this Freddys sister Sasha? The birthdate doesnt appears to be right but she says she lives in noord and about the same age.

    sasha rodriguez
Date of birth
    08/05/1990
Location
    noord
    Aruba

http://en.netlog.com/sasha_v


Hi *******, I can't tell, sorry!  She looks a lot skinnier if that is her, though. What do you think is wrong with the birthdate? TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Observer on July 02, 2008, 03:32:56 PM
Is this Freddys sister Sasha? The birthdate doesnt appears to be right but she says she lives in noord and about the same age.

    sasha rodriguez
Date of birth
    08/05/1990
Location
    noord
    Aruba

http://en.netlog.com/sasha_v


Hi *******, I can't tell, sorry!  She looks a lot skinnier if that is her, though. What do you think is wrong with the birthdate? TIA

Maybe her birthday is May 8th instead of July 5th? I assumed her birthday party was just before Natalee arrived in Aruba and not in July..What I did notice is they threw out some money for her 15th and the entire Van Der Sloot Family was there. The two Family's must be pretty close..MO


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: vms on July 02, 2008, 03:52:29 PM
Is this Freddys sister Sasha? The birthdate doesnt appears to be right but she says she lives in noord and about the same age.

    sasha rodriguez
Date of birth
    08/05/1990
Location
    noord
    Aruba

http://en.netlog.com/sasha_v

Would that not be correct for European date format?


Seh awe dia 8 di may E CHICK STUDIANTE di EPI a haci 88 aña srry 18 aña  haha o0o0ps esta Sasha Rodriguez e ta haya pabien di tur su klas  anto di su famia henter bms awo si bo por sali haci tur cos hahaha    bo ta haya hp pabien di  di.... bms sa ta ken :p  anw spera bo pasa bon cu bo dia anto wak bo triet

http://news.diario-aruba.com/content/view/2320/


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on July 02, 2008, 03:54:58 PM
Is this Freddys sister Sasha? The birthdate doesnt appears to be right but she says she lives in noord and about the same age.

    sasha rodriguez
Date of birth
    08/05/1990
Location
    noord
    Aruba

http://en.netlog.com/sasha_v


Hi *******, I can't tell, sorry!  She looks a lot skinnier if that is her, though. What do you think is wrong with the birthdate? TIA

Maybe her birthday is May 8th instead of July 5th? I assumed her birthday party was just before Natalee arrived in Aruba and not in July..What I did notice is they threw out some money for her 15th and the entire Van Der Sloot Family was there. The two Family's must be pretty close..MO


I thought I read somewhere a while back soething about it being March, but checking around the other day I found it was posted about and the payecante,sp, link was posted on forums on June 13th. along with the pimps sites they were posted on. That was where Anita wore the see thru top! Oh my!

That whole family party thing is a little weird, can't make the connection! Along with the van der Sloot family being at Sasha's party, with Koen, Jaime, know I missed some-one!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: vms on July 02, 2008, 03:56:08 PM
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a398/vms58/sasha.jpg)


About me:
Well we are the class B-22 of E.P.I Unit Sciencia y Technologia. Our class consist of 19 students who are: Jo-anne Albertz, Daniel Bermudez, Patrick Blom a.k.a Blom, Paulo Boekhoudt a.k.a Palomita-Paloma ding ding ding enz, Andrew Chacon a.k.a Chacon, Edgar Cornet (Member of Buchi Connection),Derrick Croes, Aimee Flanegien, Carlos Iguaran, Tamara Ras a.k.a Rastamara, Sasha Rodriguez a.k.a Sesh, Raul Solano, Raghir Tromp (Member of Buchi Connection), Amanda Vrolijk a.k.a A-Man-Duh, Suelaine Vrolijk, Theodoor Vrolijk (Member of Buchi Connection), Calvin Wegereef y Javier Zambrano. We are studying to become future architects. Our mentor is Mr. Enrico Giel. He one of the best teachers in the school, very friendly and he understand us allot. We are a very friendly, funny, outgoing and close class. We have different talents in our class as you can see such as filming and photographing. If you want to know more about us, feel

http://www.myspace.com/b12b42class2007

More pics at the link. Her space is private: http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=171913814


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Observer on July 02, 2008, 04:09:09 PM
(http://img365.imageshack.us/img365/8894/kffipbzz5tgqkezhwzdr15nci1.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)


I think Sasha looks like Freddy but lighter skinned and she may dye her hair. They have very similar eyes and mouth. Obviously her Fathers last name is Rodriguez and he is probably the one in the photo's at the party. The Mother probably has had children through 3 different men which explains Arambatiz,Zedan and Rodriguez..My question...Is there a relation to Daury Rodriguez?

Freddy could not have been a Bartender at Champions if he barely spoke english,he was mostly likely a Barback..I definetly think there is a connection with Freddy and the activities of May 30th around the Marriott..The Fransisco witness,The Marriott employee and that white PU.MO


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on July 02, 2008, 04:14:59 PM
*******,

I agree with everything you just posted, except Freddy not being able to be a bartender with limited language skills.  We've been to other islands where bartenders spoke very limited English (some close to none).....just saying....but I do understand what you mean. 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Observer on July 02, 2008, 04:50:06 PM
Here's another Sasha who has Joran listed as Family.

http://photos.zorpia.com/tuffgirl6999/photo/12019403.e59734/ctg


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on July 02, 2008, 04:54:36 PM
Darn...lost my post...Been looking for a Rodriguez tie to Freddy since way before Daury, every DEA newsletter, etc...LOL

It is strange that Lilian has three names, if she is remarried you wouldn't think she would have kept a former married name. Not sure that I have seen any others on the Chamber list like that.

******* can you please check out the Arambatzis thread and see if something has been overlooked. I think Ernesto looks like Mayra and Victor, but I am not a photo person.     TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Observer on July 02, 2008, 05:18:39 PM
Darn...lost my post...Been looking for a Rodriguez tie to Freddy since way before Daury, every DEA newsletter, etc...LOL

It is strange that Lilian has three names, if she is remarried you wouldn't think she would have kept a former married name. Not sure that I have seen any others on the Chamber list like that.

******* can you please check out the Arambatzis thread and see if something has been overlooked. I think Ernesto looks like Mayra and Victor, but I am not a photo person.     TIA

I have never researched this group at all..I suppose because there was so little out there..All I know is he is probably even more involved then the Kalpoes and probably should have been in the KIA with them in 2005,also Guido. I did a bunch of looking today and came up with nothing,I do not think Freddy is a social butterfly but I do not think he has given up his passion for Photography and Porn since 2005 either.

I have no clue if Ernesto is involved,what I do know is they have distanced Freddy,Guido and GVC and kept the focus on the last 3 seen with NH. My gut tells me that Guido and Freddy were with Joran after 3am,then he was dropped off at Lorenzo's. I believe Deepak and Satish went home with Deepak returning to help. I would love to know who was on the computer on the porn sites and the x-plane site as I do not believe that was Joran. I suppose it's possible it was Val then Freddy.

What were Freddy,Guido,Joran,Paulus,Lorenzo and Deepak doing at 4AM on May 30th 2005?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Blonde on July 02, 2008, 07:22:19 PM
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/Arrests%20in%20the%20case/freddybartender.jpg)

(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/Arrests%20in%20the%20case/freddyaruba.jpg)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: vms on July 02, 2008, 07:32:37 PM
sasha_v_r

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a398/vms58/Sasha-1.jpg)

Naam
sasha rodriguez

Geboortedatum
08/05/1990

Woonplaats
Aruba

Moedertaal
Nederlands

http://nl.netlog.com/sasha_v_r

********************

sasha_v_r
Oranjestad, Aruba
http://eventful.com/users/sasha_v_r
http://eventful.com/demand/D0-001-000730008-7

********************

Lots of pictures of Sasha here:
http://www.myspace.com/drew_012 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: bleachedblack on July 02, 2008, 07:47:03 PM
sasha_v_r

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a398/vms58/Sasha-1.jpg)

Naam
sasha rodriguez

Geboortedatum
08/05/1990

Woonplaats
Aruba

Moedertaal
Nederlands

http://nl.netlog.com/sasha_v_r

********************

sasha_v_r
Oranjestad, Aruba
http://eventful.com/users/sasha_v_r
http://eventful.com/demand/D0-001-000730008-7

********************

Lots of pictures of Sasha here:
http://www.myspace.com/drew_012 

Sasha pictured top here looks different to me. The one above has dark eyes and the original one had blue eyes as i recall.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: vms on July 02, 2008, 08:05:39 PM
sasha_v_r

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a398/vms58/Sasha-1.jpg)

Naam
sasha rodriguez

Geboortedatum
08/05/1990

Woonplaats
Aruba

Moedertaal
Nederlands

http://nl.netlog.com/sasha_v_r

********************

sasha_v_r
Oranjestad, Aruba
http://eventful.com/users/sasha_v_r
http://eventful.com/demand/D0-001-000730008-7

********************

Lots of pictures of Sasha here:
http://www.myspace.com/drew_012 

Sasha pictured top here looks different to me. The one above has dark eyes and the original one had blue eyes as i recall.

What are the odds that two Sashas in Aruba would both use sasha_v_r ?

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a398/vms58/sasha_v_r.jpg)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: vms on July 02, 2008, 08:12:02 PM
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a398/vms58/sasha_v_r2.jpg)


(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a398/vms58/Sasha-Hi5.jpg)
http://hi5.com/friend/222368456--Sasha%2BVirginia--Profile-html


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Observer on July 02, 2008, 08:18:29 PM
Your a great sleuth VMS  ::MonkeyWink::

It's the same girl..MO..Same birthday and they look alike,I think she died her hair blonde and wears colored contacts. That or she has a twin with the same name  ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: vms on July 02, 2008, 08:20:35 PM
Your a great sleuth VMS  ::MonkeyWink::

It's the same girl..MO..Same birthday and they look alike,I think she died her hair blonde and wears colored contacts. That or she has a twin with the same name  ::MonkeyHaHa::

 ::MonkeyHaHa::

Yeah, I'm sure its her. She does look like a different girl in some pics though, huh?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: sharon on July 02, 2008, 08:25:51 PM
Interesting.

She resembles Freddy in the Glamourous shot. And she resembles Ernie in the shot with the big white shades.

imo.

You never cease to amaze me vms  ::MonkeyCool:: Also imo.  ::MonkeyHaHa::



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: vms on July 02, 2008, 08:30:48 PM
Interesting.

She resembles Freddy in the Glamourous shot. And she resembles Ernie in the shot with the big white shades.

imo.

You never cease to amaze me vms  ::MonkeyCool:: Also imo.  ::MonkeyHaHa::



 ::MonkeyHaHa::

I can't wait for Mum to see that last name.  :shock:

That is the first time I have ever been able to attach the name to her even though we have thought forever she was Freddy's sister...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Observer on July 02, 2008, 08:34:51 PM
Your a great sleuth VMS  ::MonkeyWink::

It's the same girl..MO..Same birthday and they look alike,I think she died her hair blonde and wears colored contacts. That or she has a twin with the same name  ::MonkeyHaHa::

 ::MonkeyHaHa::

Yeah, I'm sure its her. She does look like a different girl in some pics though, huh?

Yup,hair color and eye color make a big difference,she seems to pose for more pictures as a blonde.

 I wonder what her father does for work? They either went all out for her 15th or are just loaded and treat her like a princess. The Mom doesn't seem to work either as she is a part of her own charitable group for kids. Things would get interesting if we found out Daury was directly related to this Family.

(http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/2994/sashazq6.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: vms on July 02, 2008, 08:41:49 PM
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a398/vms58/Sasha-facebook.jpg)

http://www.facebook.com/friends/?id=1310574381



Mum,
Check out the Zedan friends.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on July 02, 2008, 08:42:37 PM
Interesting.

She resembles Freddy in the Glamourous shot. And she resembles Ernie in the shot with the big white shades.

imo.

You never cease to amaze me vms  ::MonkeyCool:: Also imo.  ::MonkeyHaHa::



 ::MonkeyHaHa::

I can't wait for Mum to see that last name.  :shock:

That is the first time I have ever been able to attach the name to her even though we have thought forever she was Freddy's sister...

 ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyHaHa::

I have been popping in...thanks vms!!!!

Some are dropping it and some are picking it up!  The Arambatzis that is...

Some-one is going to have to lay it all out for me, name connections, Mothers, fathers, heck I may even need the grandparent's names, dob, country of birth!

That is the only way I am buying it....pics on the internet are just not going to do it... ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyHaHa::

Sharon...keep an eye on the concert thread the next couple of days.. ::MonkeyWink::




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Observer on July 02, 2008, 08:43:07 PM
So Ernesto,Sasha and Freddy all use the name Arambatzis. But Freddy uses Zedan,Sasha uses Rodriguez and Ernesto uses Arambatzis  ::MonkeyConfused::

Is that the mothers maiden name and her kids are tagged with the name also?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Rob on July 02, 2008, 08:43:21 PM
Your a great sleuth VMS 

yeah she is!!! you don't know the half of it  ::MonkeyHaHa::

HI *******! :cyclops:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: vms on July 02, 2008, 08:46:51 PM
Your a great sleuth VMS 

yeah she is!!! you don't know the half of it  ::MonkeyHaHa::

HI *******! :cyclops:

Well, thank you, Rob.  ::MonkeyHaHa::


Mum,
What do we need to convince you that they are all related?  ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Observer on July 02, 2008, 08:49:37 PM
Your a great sleuth VMS

yeah she is!!! you don't know the half of it  ::MonkeyHaHa::

HI *******! :cyclops:
Hi :) WHat do you think of the vandersloots at MSU on Facebook? I use to see a avid reader of our forum from MSU.

I would hate to have her researching me,although I suspect she already has  ::MonkeyHaHa:: j/k


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Rob on July 02, 2008, 08:53:09 PM
Your a great sleuth VMS

yeah she is!!! you don't know the half of it  ::MonkeyHaHa::

HI *******! :cyclops:
Hi :) WHat do you think of the vandersloots at MSU on Facebook? I use to see a avid reader of our forum from MSU.

I would hate to have her researching me,although I suspect she already has  ::MonkeyHaHa:: j/k

I'm a Michigan fan  ::MonkeyHaHa:: GO BIG BLUE  ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on July 02, 2008, 08:56:16 PM
So Ernesto,Sasha and Freddy all use the name Arambatzis. But Freddy uses Zedan,Sasha uses Rodriguez and Ernesto uses Arambatzis  ::MonkeyConfused::

Is that the mothers maiden name and her kids are tagged with the name also?


Lilian is now Lilian Rodriguez, so maybe the two Arambatzis, according to Capsdatabase=2, are Sasha and Freddy! Wonder who Robbie is now? Zedan!

Vms, birth certificates, marriages licenses, or an official statement from the FBI! ::MonkeyHaHa::



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: vms on July 02, 2008, 09:04:10 PM
So Ernesto,Sasha and Freddy all use the name Arambatzis. But Freddy uses Zedan,Sasha uses Rodriguez and Ernesto uses Arambatzis  ::MonkeyConfused::

Is that the mothers maiden name and her kids are tagged with the name also?


Lilian is now Lilian Rodriguez, so maybe the two Arambatzis, according to Capsdatabase=2, are Sasha and Freddy! Wonder who Robbie is now? Zedan!

Vms, birth certificates, marriages licenses, or an official statement from the FBI! ::MonkeyHaHa::



I don't think I can swing that. ROFL.  ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on July 02, 2008, 09:04:19 PM
Vms...I can't see anything on the facebook...tells me to log in...

Only 24 views on the profile on the other site...must be new...



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on July 02, 2008, 09:09:06 PM
So Ernesto,Sasha and Freddy all use the name Arambatzis. But Freddy uses Zedan,Sasha uses Rodriguez and Ernesto uses Arambatzis  ::MonkeyConfused::

Is that the mothers maiden name and her kids are tagged with the name also?


Lilian is now Lilian Rodriguez, so maybe the two Arambatzis, according to Capsdatabase=2, are Sasha and Freddy! Wonder who Robbie is now? Zedan!

Vms, birth certificates, marriages licenses, or an official statement from the FBI! ::MonkeyHaHa::



I don't think I can swing that. ROFL.  ::MonkeyHaHa::

 ::MonkeyHaHa::

But if I could post a pic and was a little clever with a computer, I could post a pic of 'me' and my beautiful friends, on Scarborough Beach, W.A., and people would have a hard time proving it wasn't me... ::MonkeyWink::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on July 02, 2008, 09:14:01 PM
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,375561,00.html

excerpt:
But in an affidavit unsealed earlier in U.S. District Court in Burlington, the FBI said an unidentified teenager told investigators she was present on June 25 when Jacques, 42, tricked Brooke into thinking she was going to a party and took her to his Randolph home to be initiated into a sex ring.

Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 12:14 am
How those innocent young flies enter the trap with honey laden notes


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: vms on July 02, 2008, 09:35:15 PM
Vms...I can't see anything on the facebook...tells me to log in...

Only 24 views on the profile on the other site...must be new...



Oops, Sorry.

Zedan friends:

Natasha Zedan

Johnny Enrique Zedan

Virginia A. Rahn Zedán
Venezuela
 
Silvia Zedán


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on July 02, 2008, 09:45:29 PM
Vms...I can't see anything on the facebook...tells me to log in...

Only 24 views on the profile on the other site...must be new...



Oops, Sorry.

Zedan friends:

Natasha Zedan

Johnny Enrique Zedan

Virginia A. Rahn Zedán
Venezuela
 
Silvia Zedán


Thanks vms...No Rebeca? SandraK said there was a Rebeca...LOL...and a Lissette in the US.

I wonder are they the Florida or Michigan Zedans...will check...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: vms on July 02, 2008, 09:57:25 PM
Vms...I can't see anything on the facebook...tells me to log in...

Only 24 views on the profile on the other site...must be new...



Oops, Sorry.

Zedan friends:

Natasha Zedan

Johnny Enrique Zedan

Virginia A. Rahn Zedán
Venezuela
 
Silvia Zedán


Thanks vms...No Rebeca? SandraK said there was a Rebeca...LOL...and a Lissette in the US.

I wonder are they the Florida or Michigan Zedans...will check...

No, but Rebeca Zedan is a friend of Johnny Enrique Zedan,  Virginia A. Rahn Zedán, & Silvia Zedán, who are all friends of Sasha.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on July 02, 2008, 10:03:41 PM
Vms...I can't see anything on the facebook...tells me to log in...

Only 24 views on the profile on the other site...must be new...



Oops, Sorry.

Zedan friends:

Natasha Zedan

Johnny Enrique Zedan

Virginia A. Rahn Zedán
Venezuela
 
Silvia Zedán


Thanks vms...No Rebeca? SandraK said there was a Rebeca...LOL...and a Lissette in the US.

I wonder are they the Florida or Michigan Zedans...will check...

No, but Rebeca Zedan is a friend of Johnny Enrique Zedan,  Virginia A. Rahn Zedán, & Silvia Zedán, who are all friends of Sasha.


Must all be in Venezuela, quick search didn't turn up any of those here. Wonder if they only speak Pap...LOL...Good Night!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on July 02, 2008, 10:44:37 PM
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,375561,00.html

excerpt:
But in an affidavit unsealed earlier in U.S. District Court in Burlington, the FBI said an unidentified teenager told investigators she was present on June 25 when Jacques, 42, tricked Brooke into thinking she was going to a party and took her to his Randolph home to be initiated into a sex ring.

Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 12:14 am
How those innocent young flies enter the trap with honey laden notes


Colombo, there is always a possibility Natalee was taken off that island in a drugged/drunken state thus the diversions. Maybe the honey laden notes was the party invitation. All the gamblers knew what was written down--they got the same party invite.

I found something interesting today - that a cave in Aruba has been closed since 1998 because a person went missing. (Amy Lynn Bradley went missing on March 24, 1998). Did the 'robed ones' escape thru passageways used 'ONCE BEFORE' (perhaps in 1998? ). Some websites state that Huliba Cave is the same cave as the Tunnel of Love cave; other websites list them as two separate caves. There's also a Shark Cave (she wanted to see sharks). Did Joran say 'sharks'  to divert everybody away from the real cave of the Rave, thinking that other party goers might talk?

cRave = Rave within a cave

I once read the H.I. was built on ontop of many tunnels. Sounds odd as they bury their dead above ground, but who knows. If there was a rave party in a cave, the H.I. tunnels could connect 'Babylon' (casino) with the 'maze of tunnels' under Aruba. So Babylon and Arawaks both are involved in whatever gets moved in and out of the tunnel system.

PLUS, remember laughing when someone posted that Natalee was DRIVEN to VZ? Who's to say there isn't a secret underground tunnel from Aruba to VZ? Heck, think of the Lincoln Tunnel connecting NJ and NY. And the Seikan tunnel in Japan is 53.85km (33 miles) long, with a 23.3km (14.6) mile section underwater. The Channel Tunnel, by comparison, is 31 miles long, 23 miles of which are underwater. VZ is only 15 mi from Aruba. Was this the great game played in the 'palace'? Smuggling drugs and arms into trampoline country, and why subs and F16s surrounded Aruba?

Choose-a name bouncer found tortured outside of a cave. Were drug lords ticked off cuz he gave Natalee the poison wine of Bacchus which in turn caused everybody to close in on their operation? Choose-a-Name bar burned down several times (not just this one time) and each time it was rebuilt in a DIFFERENT location. Didn't the J2K stop off at Choose-a-Name after they left C&C? What is being built where Choose-A-Name used to be in all these locations?

http://www.wysiwicked.com/encyclopedia/?title=Caves_Aruba

The Huliba Cave Closed since 1998 after one person went missing inside the cave never to be found[/size][/i]Merian Ernest 7/26/05 3:51pm...The federales should be careful not to grease the palace floors. The robed ones will squeeze an escape through passageways used once before.[/b] 

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:27 pm ...There are many secrets, but the Arawaks are helping. The palace is open to all, but the palace is a maze to most.
 
http://www.showcaves.com/english/car/showcaves/Huliba.html
Huliba Grot (Huliba Cave) is a so called show cave, Aruban style. A staircase was built to access the cave, but the cave is not lighted and not closed. You may visit it on your own, some shops at the entrance offer torches and guides if you want. Helmets and flashlights can be rented for $6 at the entrance. The staircase leads down into a vast room, illuminated in part by daylight. From here a corridor leads to a small terminal chamber some 35m (approx 165 feet) lower down. Huliba Cave is also known as the tunnel of love. (or is it?)

- Answer lies on the whispering wind (stairway).
- The "palace" is a maze.
- Children of elders play in the maze.
- DirtyHand walked thru the maze.
- Dicethrowers know the maze of the rave.
- Dicemen go to music and entered the same maze
- Mary rolled into the maze.
- The lamb was afraid to go into the maze.
- Arawaks hide the path of the rave for the babylonians (casino owners)
- All the Arawaks know the Maze which plays the poison songs
- Why do they leave the Maze open? Why hasn’t an Arawak probed it’s fetid depths. Tell the Cowboys! --- The Arawaks are hiding the path to the Maze for the Babylonians.
- All know of the music beckoning lost souls to enter the seven levels of inferno. Who gave Mary the poison wine of Bacchus?  Enter the Maze.

Merian Ernest 7/19/05 3:04pm
The Orange one is for show. Those that live below the sea are good people


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Pita on July 02, 2008, 10:55:26 PM
These caves are also interesting, the Caves in Seroe Colorado, located down by the Valero Refinery.

http://www.lago-colony.com/CAVES_OF_SEROE_COLORADO_IN_2006/SEROE_COLORADO_CAVES_IN_2006.htm


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: finngirl on July 03, 2008, 12:05:22 AM
Maybe her birthday is May 8th instead of July 5th? I assumed her birthday party was just before Natalee arrived in Aruba and not in July..What I did notice is they threw out some money for her 15th and the entire Van Der Sloot Family was there. The two Family's must be pretty close..MO

That whole family party thing is a little weird, can't make the connection! Along with the van der Sloot family being at Sasha's party, with Koen, Jaime, know I missed some-one!

I wonder what her father does for work? They either went all out for her 15th or are just loaded and treat her like a princess. The Mom doesn't seem to work either as she is a part of her own charitable group for kids. Things would get interesting if we found out Daury was directly related to this Family.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quincea%C3%B1era

The Quinceañera or Quince años is, in some Spanish-speaking regions of the Americas, a young woman's celebration of her fifteenth birthday, which is commemorated in a unique and different way from her other birthdays. It is sometimes represented XV Años, meaning "15 years." Only a few countries call the actual party "quinceañera."

Besides referring to the actual festivities, the word is also used to refer to the young woman whose 15th birthday is being celebrated (analogous to the word cumpleañera for "birthday girl"). The closest equivalents to the quinceañera in the English-speaking world are the sweet sixteen; Bar or Bat Mitzvah for Jewish children turning 13; cotillion; or, in more affluent communities, the debutante ball for those who turn 18.

http://www.decidio.com/local-businesses/invitations-aruba-florida-s47.html
These local professionals can also be found listed under: Aruba wedding invitations, Aruba party invitations, Aruba announcements, Aruba Invitations, Aruba Invitation, Aruba announcement, Aruba wedding invitation, Aruba wedding announcement, Aruba invitation printing, Aruba invitation printer, Aruba printing service, Aruba printing services, Aruba anniversary invitation, Aruba birthday invitation, Aruba party invitation, Aruba calligraphy, Aruba calligrapher, Aruba caligraphers, Aruba event invitations, Aruba calligraphy services, Aruba calligraphy service, Aruba hand calligraphy, Aruba laser calligraphy, Aruba custom printing, Aruba printer, Aruba anniversary, Aruba baby shower, Aruba baptism, Aruba bar mitzvah, Aruba bat mitzvah, Aruba birthday, Aruba bridal shower, Aruba christmas invitation, Aruba christmas party invitation, Aruba corporate event, Aruba engagement, Aruba quinceanera, Aruba reunion, Aruba prom, Aruba sweet sixteen, Aruba party, Aruba cheap wedding invitation, Aruba custom printing, Aruba wedding invitation wording



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on July 03, 2008, 12:16:32 AM
These caves are also interesting, the Caves in Seroe Colorado, located down by the Valero Refinery.

http://www.lago-colony.com/CAVES_OF_SEROE_COLORADO_IN_2006/SEROE_COLORADO_CAVES_IN_2006.htm

PITA - GREAT PICS ON THAT LINK!  This one is entitled "the ladder down into the hole".

Could this pic be the "answer that lies on the whispering wind'?

(http://i315.photobucket.com/albums/ll472/SleepingPooch/Natalee/PICT1051.jpg)

Check this link out about sacrificing virgins:

http://www.weather.com/outlook/travel/vacationplanner/destination/attractions-aruba?from=vac_stateoverview

Indian Caves

Fontein Caves are inscribed with what guides tell you are Amerindian drawings, but it's also said that the markings were created for a much more recent movie filming. Guides also say that the natural caves were once used by Arawaks for shelter and sacrificing virgins. Guadirikiri and Huliba caves are less synthetic tourist attractions. The Indian Caves are found near Aruba's northeast coast.


Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:16 pm
Mary was not a Virgin. The Arawaks know. The cowboys know. DirtyHand can break the Alibi, he walks all circles.
The Simian knows this.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:41 pm
even after a daughter gives birth to a grandchild, the father of the new mother will still claim his daughter is a virgin. All who enter the damned corridors of the houses of Babylon know the dangers that await. But the knowledge that they are forbidden is what makes them so pleasurable.

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:29 pm 
Babylonians and Shivas do not play with sandcastles. Follow the music!  Mary who was not a Virgin entered the maze to discover it’s secrets. The lamb is scared. The fires are lit. But now the lamb is a goat.

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:37 pm
The DiceMen must be questioned.  They to go to the Music and enter the same Maze. Mary who was not a virgin entered. The DiceMen ROLLED. Mary ROLLED.






Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on July 03, 2008, 12:22:34 AM
Maybe her birthday is May 8th instead of July 5th? I assumed her birthday party was just before Natalee arrived in Aruba and not in July..What I did notice is they threw out some money for her 15th and the entire Van Der Sloot Family was there. The two Family's must be pretty close..MO

That whole family party thing is a little weird, can't make the connection! Along with the van der Sloot family being at Sasha's party, with Koen, Jaime, know I missed some-one!

I wonder what her father does for work? They either went all out for her 15th or are just loaded and treat her like a princess. The Mom doesn't seem to work either as she is a part of her own charitable group for kids. Things would get interesting if we found out Daury was directly related to this Family.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quincea%C3%B1era

The Quinceañera or Quince años is, in some Spanish-speaking regions of the Americas, a young woman's celebration of her fifteenth birthday, which is commemorated in a unique and different way from her other birthdays. It is sometimes represented XV Años, meaning "15 years." Only a few countries call the actual party "quinceañera."

Besides referring to the actual festivities, the word is also used to refer to the young woman whose 15th birthday is being celebrated (analogous to the word cumpleañera for "birthday girl"). The closest equivalents to the quinceañera in the English-speaking world are the sweet sixteen; Bar or Bat Mitzvah for Jewish children turning 13; cotillion; or, in more affluent communities, the debutante ball for those who turn 18.

http://www.decidio.com/local-businesses/invitations-aruba-florida-s47.html
These local professionals can also be found listed under: Aruba wedding invitations, Aruba party invitations, Aruba announcements, Aruba Invitations, Aruba Invitation, Aruba announcement, Aruba wedding invitation, Aruba wedding announcement, Aruba invitation printing, Aruba invitation printer, Aruba printing service, Aruba printing services, Aruba anniversary invitation, Aruba birthday invitation, Aruba party invitation, Aruba calligraphy, Aruba calligrapher, Aruba caligraphers, Aruba event invitations, Aruba calligraphy services, Aruba calligraphy service, Aruba hand calligraphy, Aruba laser calligraphy, Aruba custom printing, Aruba printer, Aruba anniversary, Aruba baby shower, Aruba baptism, Aruba bar mitzvah, Aruba bat mitzvah, Aruba birthday, Aruba bridal shower, Aruba christmas invitation, Aruba christmas party invitation, Aruba corporate event, Aruba engagement, Aruba quinceanera, Aruba reunion, Aruba prom, Aruba sweet sixteen, Aruba party, Aruba cheap wedding invitation, Aruba custom printing, Aruba wedding invitation wording









Thanks Finn...had checked that out a while ago to make sure there even was such a thing...LOL

I am wondering about the van der Sloot's relationship or connection to Sasha Rodriguez, now to include Arambatzis, that Anita and her see thru blouse would have even been invited!

Vms...not buying it even more than I was a couple of hours ago! Recently Sasha adds some pages, including the name Arambatzis.... ::MonkeyNoNo::

The Zedans are multiplying and it is all happening in front of our very eyes on the internet!

I think somebody is watching, and it may not be big brother.... ::MonkeyHaHa::



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on July 03, 2008, 12:24:28 AM
These caves are also interesting, the Caves in Seroe Colorado, located down by the Valero Refinery.

http://www.lago-colony.com/CAVES_OF_SEROE_COLORADO_IN_2006/SEROE_COLORADO_CAVES_IN_2006.htm

Wow again Pita - Here's a cut and paste from this link off of the one you provided:
http://www.lago-colony.com/TOURIST_INDUSTRY/CAVES_AS_A_TOURIST_ATTRACTION.htm

When I got the news that Natural Bridge in Aruba had fallen down I was surprised, hurt and felt that not only had a natural wonder changed, as all natural wonders do, but Aruba had lost a great tourist attraction.
Tourist attractions are funny things.  They really do not have to be that impressive, however I must say Natural Bridge was impressive, they just need to be unique.  Natural Bridge was unique.  It really is just someplace for persons on vacation to go and see something they will not find at home, kill a little time and spend a little money. 
 
Being the tourist attraction that Natural Bridge was I got to thinking, what could replace it, and the answer is really, nothing.  There are I believe four other natural bridges on the island, one is at Colorado Point, on the North side of the red hill, but is not as impressive or large as the Natural Bridge that fell and it is hard to get to.  There is one next to the one that fell but it to is not as impressive.  The other I can not tell you where it is but I am sure it to is hard to get to and not that pretty, not like the one that is no longer.

Then I got to thinking about what could be the next tourist attraction on Aruba.  By that I should say, Natural Tourist Attraction, and then it hit me, maybe I had the answer.

My thought was this.  What I knew as "BURSON'S CAVES", "THE COLONY CAVES", "THE NEW HOUSE CAVES", whatever the name, that is not important, what is important is they are unique and they are impressive.  They are in Seroe Colorado and I think would make a wonderful tourist attraction.

They are below ground, that is to say, they are in a hole, and when I was last in Aruba, the hole was still fenced with cyclone fencingAs a boy I got to the caves through a hole in the fence, cut I am sure by one of the other boys, climbed down a tree growing out of the hole and then, from the bottom of the hole you could enter the cave.  I spent a lot of time exploring those caves, they were exciting, unique as well as impressive. If you doubt me, look at the photos at the top of this page, they are from those same caves.

With a little ingenuity and really very little expense these caves could be made accessible to the public and would make a wonderful Natural Tourist Attraction.  They are just like the Fountain Caves, but instead of climbing up stairs, as kids we climbed the cliff, you go down in the hole to get  the Seroe Colorado Caves.  They are larger, much larger, then the Fountain Caves and have many passageways  to explore.  Although not like the other caves at in the Arikok National Park, they do not have Indian writing on the walls, they do have things of interest and as I said before, they are unique, beautiful and impressive, just the requirements needed for a good Natural Tourist Attraction.

A hydraulic elevator could take tourist to the bottom of the hole, a drop of about 12 feet.  The caves could be electrified, to provide lighting for the tourist to get around and the old wells in the caves, dug they say, by the men who mined phosphate on that end of the island, could be railed off and protected to prevent persons from filling into the open wells.
Such a Natural Tourist Attraction would I believe be something for the government and some enterprising Aruban to think about and look into.  It would give the tourist another place to visit, they now have only Baby Beach and Coco Beach, while visiting that end of the island.

By drawing the tourist out of Oranjstead and into the other parts of the island you cause him or her to spread their money throughout the island.  Sitting here in Austin, Texas and thinking about my up coming trip to Aruba; THE NATURAL CAVES OF SEROE COLORADO, it just seemed like a good idea to me and I wanted to put it out there for others in Aruba to consider.  Aruba, you may even put Carlsbad Cavern to shame.  Your comments are welcome.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on July 03, 2008, 12:26:34 AM
Pita, more from the link:

CAUTION - NOTE ABOUT SAFETY
If these caves are to become a tourist attraction they will need to be cleaned of trash, rubbish, garbage and other debris that has been left behind over the years. 

When my son went down in the caves there was signs that persons may have been living down there.  There are illegal aliens on the island, so use extreme caution if you intend to visit the caves and certainly do not do so alone.  


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Observer on July 03, 2008, 12:33:58 AM
 ::MonkeyEek:: Mum is still awake..It's a cajun monkey miracle  ::MonkeyWink::

The two Family's lived by each other so I bet Freddy was always over and Sasha sometimes as well,it's possible freddy's mom and anita became close as well?  We know the sloots were pretty snooty even to there other neghbors,but they treated this Family like one of there own. Freddy is a few years older then Joran but apparently they were the best of friends and probably the tie between these two Familys.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on July 03, 2008, 12:42:48 AM
::MonkeyEek:: Mum is still awake..It's a cajun monkey miracle  ::MonkeyWink::

The two Family's lived by each other so I bet Freddy was always over and Sasha sometimes as well,it's possible freddy's mom and anita became close as well?  We know the sloots were pretty snooty even to there other neghbors,but they treated this Family like one of there own. Freddy is a few years older then Joran but apparently they were the best of friends and probably the tie between these two Familys.


LOL...I can't sleep and it is almost time to get up!!!

And we forgot about the tennis!

I will look for the house map pf Montanja that Caps posted tomorrow!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on July 03, 2008, 12:49:06 AM
I can't sleep either...everyone has been busy, I see.  Carry on!   This place would be nothing with all of you...thanks for all the hard work. 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on July 03, 2008, 12:50:20 AM
Well, I meant with out all of you...darn I can't eve type a compliment without messing it up these days.  Sorry.  You guys are the best at this stuff.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on July 03, 2008, 12:53:47 AM
Well, I meant with out all of you...darn I can't eve type a compliment without messing it up these days.  Sorry.  You guys are the best at this stuff.


And I can't type without typos!...Going to bed...one more time...Goodnight all!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: hotping on July 03, 2008, 12:59:40 AM
OK I'm going to try to explain how I came Up with this name.....On page 30 of this thread I saw the name Antersijn and I looked it up in one of My databases and found one in Florida and it was associated with the name Dueri....My question is for SS or any other Monkey....Has anyone ever seen this name in any of there lookups in the Aruba Chamber or elsewhere......To Me it could be pronounced something like Daury......Well that's just MO of Course....Just thought I would mention it and see if it leads anywhere..... ::MonkeyConfused::   


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on July 03, 2008, 01:21:01 AM
Mum - there is also a Jo-Anne Alberts on Sasha's Facebook page.

HotPing - I've never come across the name Dueri.


I agree with Mum about this clan suddenly popping up with the Arambatzis and Zedan names everywhere.  What is happening all of a sudden?  Are we being played?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on July 03, 2008, 07:56:25 AM
Here is the link to the maps that Klaas posted for Caps...Neither Freddy 2004 or 2005 Chamber address back up to Joran's house...Can't find Jaime's #232 or the Arends that lives at #10 either...

Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
« Reply #2699 on: February 25, 2008, 10:03:10 PM

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1952.2680



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on July 03, 2008, 08:19:07 AM
From Caps database…

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1952.2600


Reply #2602 on: February 25, 2008, 01:10:36 PM »   
 
wel look at this

Lima                             Montanja 39C
Lima                             Montanja 39C
Lima                             Montanja 39C
Paramaribo                Montanja 39C
Aruba                             Montanja 39C
distrikt Commewijne   Montanja 39C
Aruba                            Montanja 39E
Los Taques               Montanja 39G
Punta Cardon               Montanja 39G
Eindhoven              Montanja 39G
Utrecht                           Montanja 39G



Where is the F adress ????

this is a current database


« Reply #2605 on: February 25, 2008, 01:21:30 PM »   
 
Canlas   Teoderico   7/1/1951   Angeles City   Montanja 62
Lacle   Mateo   9/21/1923   Aruba   Montanja 62A
Cratsz   Philip S   9/28/1971   Curacao   Montanja 62C
Cratsz, geb. Ras   Rita E   2/8/1965   Aruba   Montanja 62C
Jansen   Irenaeus PT   7/6/1960   Rotterdam   Montanja 62D
Jansen, geb. Bouwman   Vendetta XC   11/22/1955   Aruba   Montanja 62D
Wu   Huan Z   7/10/1949   Guangdong   Montanja 62E
Wu   Wen G   4/14/1976   Guangdong   Montanja 62E
Wu   Wen Y   11/8/1973   Guangdong   Montanja 62E
Wu, geb. Liu   Yue Y   11/2/1949   Guangdong   Montanja 62E



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Pita on July 03, 2008, 08:42:13 AM
Pita, more from the link:

CAUTION - NOTE ABOUT SAFETY
If these caves are to become a tourist attraction they will need to be cleaned of trash, rubbish, garbage and other debris that has been left behind over the years. 

When my son went down in the caves there was signs that persons may have been living down there.  There are illegal aliens on the island, so use extreme caution if you intend to visit the caves and certainly do not do so alone.  

I think these caves are quite interesting and wonder if they were ever searched in regard to Natalee's case.  Here's a couple of links to a few maps of the area:

Older map showing caves in the center of homes above them. (page down)
http://www.lago-colony.com/TOURIST_INDUSTRY/map_showing_location_of_caves.htm

http://www.lago-colony.com/NEW_HOUS_MAP.htm

http://www.lago-colony.com/MAP_MASTER.htm


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on July 03, 2008, 08:51:11 AM

Not sure why Caps picked this as his example…except we were asking about a Jorge Porras Sanches….I tried to follow it back, but it is Cap’s post!

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1952.2940

Posted by Caps:Reply #2952 on: February 29, 2008, 02:21:39 PM »

about the spanish Names:

Father: First NAME: Mario Luis
 
Last Name: Rodriquez Sanches

women before married : Carment Maria Sarmieneto Gonzales

women get maried to father new name : Carmen Maria Rodriquez Sarmiennto

women get a child but married to the Father

first Name : Jose Luis
Last name : Rodriquez Sanches.

women get a child but not married to the father

First Name: Jose Luis
Last Name: Rodriquez Sarmiento

Posted by Anna:« Reply #2953 on: February 29, 2008, 02:21:48 PM »   
 
Mum,

I only know the correct form that is to be used.  My children are Hispanic.  Like you, it seems evident that Freddie likes to scramble his collection of last names.

I would share your conclusion that this is deliberate.  He can have only one legal father at a time.  Or could his last names be scrambled in an attempt to protect his identity for the same reason of the curious use of initials many times in press releases?

In any event, his name should be his father's last name followed by the last name of his mother, her maiden name only.  It is not possible that he doesn't know his own name so the conclusion that this is a deliberate attempt to obscure his identity would seem the most logical one.

In the event a child is illegitimate, the names would reflect that of the mother only, normally.  Her maiden names, meaning that of her father followed by that of her mother's maiden name.  Otherwise, it would not relflect the correct geneology, etc.

I don't know who does it, the individual or those taking the statements but would have to say that this seems to be a systemic problem with the duel names.  Add in the various nicknames and we might as well refer to them as component "X" at times.  Good luck sorting it out.  All I know is how it SHOULD be.

Apologies…not sure who posted this…

From Websleuths...VBulletin site 2005:

08-28-2005, 11:28 PM
rollerbladr123 rollerbladr123
Registered User
   
Arambatziz-Zedan
Confusion over Freddy's last name is said to result from naming conventions which can be difficult for some to interpret. Apparently the name of both parents or their family names are taken at birth and Zedan may be Freddy's Mother's maiden name.

Anyone want to take a shot at this now??

ARAMBATZIS-RODRIGUEZ ALBERT              LILIAN REGINA.
ARAMBATZIS PEREZ                                ROBBY GERARDUS
ZEDAN ARAMBATZIS                               FREDDY ALEXANDER aka ARENDS
ARAMBATZIS-ZEDAN                               FREDDY ALEXANDER aka ARENDS
RODRIGUEZ ARAMBATZIS                         SASHA VICTORIA
ARAMBATZIS                                         ERNESTO
                                                          GHIS?

   
 
Quote from: Blonde on February 26, 2008, 06:33:12 PM

Must say that TigerGirl & Shango seem to be the
ones offering the goods, so far.
p.s. 'Seedy' was female.

OK-where did they get that information. Just cause someone posted it, doesn't always make it true-I can attest to that plenty.
Seedy never gave anything away to indicate his/her sex-I wonder how this could be found out.

Everyone assumed I was male until I corrected them. This is what I am talking about-a lot of the things you present here as fact are only assumptions that people have picked up from here and there on the internet. They have no back up and that doesn't make them fact.
Posted by: scubajap | Thursday, August 18, 2005 at 09:03 AM








Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on July 03, 2008, 08:57:28 AM
One more, from Caps about Freddy living near the Sloot's...


http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1952.2580

« Reply #2594 on: February 25, 2008, 12:39:45 PM »   
 
LALA

I am check the name: I need his address if anyone has it

Need it to cross referance.

Freddy Arambatzis-Zedan

Zedan=0
Arambatzis=2

« Reply #2598 on: February 25, 2008, 12:53:21 PM »   
 
LALA:

Only Freddy living near the sloot is

Bordes   Freddy   8/12/1958   Utrecht   Montanja 34

older man DUTCH. I am wondering that these names are all made up as a smokescreen




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on July 03, 2008, 09:33:42 AM
Mum
Did you ever get a bead on the Ghis?  I was lost with that name.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on July 03, 2008, 10:31:46 AM
Mum
Did you ever get a bead on the Ghis?  I was lost with that name.


Not yet Lala's...found a few things, none of the names were Zedan, Arambatzis or Rodriguez, and another turned up on some of Damilice's friend's sites, but looked nothing like the birthday pic! Found one Arends, go figure...I think it may be Ghislaine....not sure


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: vms on July 03, 2008, 11:19:12 AM
Mum - there is also a Jo-Anne Alberts on Sasha's Facebook page.

HotPing - I've never come across the name Dueri.


I agree with Mum about this clan suddenly popping up with the Arambatzis and Zedan names everywhere.  What is happening all of a sudden?  Are we being played?

Really?

I didn't find it that simple to find Sasha listed with that name.

 :smt102


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Kermit on July 03, 2008, 01:05:09 PM
Rosalie Klein aka scubajap speaks with forked-tongue, but I am putting it here for ya'll to disseminate.

and Freddy is related to who?

Posted by: ustt | Oct 7, 2005 12:50:49 PM
_____________________________________________________________________
He has an Arubian mother and family-his father is in Venezuela -in the hospital, on his deathbed at the moment, if not gone already
And he has an alibi according to the police.

Posted by: scubajap | Oct 7, 2005 12:53:54 P



The VIP is owned by a Dutchman who has lived on the island for 3 months.
the Indo is owned by a Surinamese Man,
and there were a few hanging out there-I think there is probably a fair number of people from Surinam living in Aruba-Gerald Dompig is from Surinam, also
Posted by: scubajap | Oct 10, 2005 10:08:30 PM


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: texasmom on July 03, 2008, 04:26:02 PM
Vms...I can't see anything on the facebook...tells me to log in...

Only 24 views on the profile on the other site...must be new...



Oops, Sorry.

Zedan friends:

Natasha Zedan

Johnny Enrique Zedan

Virginia A. Rahn Zedán
Venezuela
 
Silvia Zedán


Thanks vms...No Rebeca? SandraK said there was a Rebeca...LOL...and a Lissette in the US.

I wonder are they the Florida or Michigan Zedans...will check...

No, but Rebeca Zedan is a friend of Johnny Enrique Zedan,  Virginia A. Rahn Zedán, & Silvia Zedán, who are all friends of Sasha.

http://pl.facebook.com/people/Rebeca_Zedan/668840680


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: finngirl on July 03, 2008, 05:26:33 PM
Here is the link to the maps that Klaas posted for Caps...Neither Freddy 2004 or 2005 Chamber address back up to Joran's house...Can't find Jaime's #232 or the Arends that lives at #10 either...

Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
« Reply #2699 on: February 25, 2008, 10:03:10 PM

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1952.2680

thanks for posting the link, Mum

TOTALLY different from what was posted in 2005/2006
re the two homes having fairly close backyard access

back to square one for me ... again ... LOL



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on July 03, 2008, 05:48:20 PM
Rosalie Klein aka scubajap speaks with forked-tongue, but I am putting it here for ya'll to disseminate.

and Freddy is related to who?

Posted by: ustt | Oct 7, 2005 12:50:49 PM
_____________________________________________________________________
He has an Arubian mother and family-his father is in Venezuela -in the hospital, on his deathbed at the moment, if not gone already
And he has an alibi according to the police.

Posted by: scubajap | Oct 7, 2005 12:53:54 P



The VIP is owned by a Dutchman who has lived on the island for 3 months.
the Indo is owned by a Surinamese Man,
and there were a few hanging out there-I think there is probably a fair number of people from Surinam living in Aruba-Gerald Dompig is from Surinam, also
Posted by: scubajap | Oct 10, 2005 10:08:30 PM


Well, I am confused as usual. LOL  So are we to believe that Freddy's father is dead?  In Venezuela?  How does this VIP and INDO ownership fit with what Caps told us?  Or is it all a lie by Scuba?  Yep, still confused.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on July 03, 2008, 06:24:48 PM
Vms...I can't see anything on the facebook...tells me to log in...

Only 24 views on the profile on the other site...must be new...



Oops, Sorry.

Zedan friends:

Natasha Zedan

Johnny Enrique Zedan

Virginia A. Rahn Zedán
Venezuela
 
Silvia Zedán


Thanks vms...No Rebeca? SandraK said there was a Rebeca...LOL...and a Lissette in the US.

I wonder are they the Florida or Michigan Zedans...will check...

No, but Rebeca Zedan is a friend of Johnny Enrique Zedan,  Virginia A. Rahn Zedán, & Silvia Zedán, who are all friends of Sasha.

http://pl.facebook.com/people/Rebeca_Zedan/668840680


Thanks TM…I guess it is true…anyone can join facebook!

I am way behind the times….

Anyone see Lizette yet?

And more importantly, for me anyways, is anyone going to have a shot at connecting all those names?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on July 03, 2008, 06:29:58 PM
Rosalie Klein aka scubajap speaks with forked-tongue, but I am putting it here for ya'll to disseminate.

and Freddy is related to who?

Posted by: ustt | Oct 7, 2005 12:50:49 PM
_____________________________________________________________________
He has an Arubian mother and family-his father is in Venezuela -in the hospital, on his deathbed at the moment, if not gone already
And he has an alibi according to the police.

Posted by: scubajap | Oct 7, 2005 12:53:54 P



The VIP is owned by a Dutchman who has lived on the island for 3 months.
the Indo is owned by a Surinamese Man,
and there were a few hanging out there-I think there is probably a fair number of people from Surinam living in Aruba-Gerald Dompig is from Surinam, also
Posted by: scubajap | Oct 10, 2005 10:08:30 PM


Well, I am confused as usual. LOL  So are we to believe that Freddy's father is dead?  In Venezuela?  How does this VIP and INDO ownership fit with what Caps told us?  Or is it all a lie by Scuba?  Yep, still confused.

Only if we believe scuba and Melody, not sure what date it was that Melody posted he was on his deathbed, but I think around September 3rd.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on July 03, 2008, 06:33:53 PM
Here is the link to the maps that Klaas posted for Caps...Neither Freddy 2004 or 2005 Chamber address back up to Joran's house...Can't find Jaime's #232 or the Arends that lives at #10 either...

Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
« Reply #2699 on: February 25, 2008, 10:03:10 PM

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1952.2680

thanks for posting the link, Mum

TOTALLY different from what was posted in 2005/2006
re the two homes having fairly close backyard access

back to square one for me ... again ... LOL




YW Finn...I was hoping Blonde would pop in and post them here... ::MonkeyWink::

I am having a hard time putting Caps maps with the pics we have seen of the van der Sloot's house. I thought the neighbors were much closer? May just be that it is a drawing.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: vms on July 03, 2008, 07:12:33 PM
Vms...I can't see anything on the facebook...tells me to log in...

Only 24 views on the profile on the other site...must be new...



Oops, Sorry.

Zedan friends:

Natasha Zedan

Johnny Enrique Zedan

Virginia A. Rahn Zedán
Venezuela
 
Silvia Zedán


Thanks vms...No Rebeca? SandraK said there was a Rebeca...LOL...and a Lissette in the US.

I wonder are they the Florida or Michigan Zedans...will check...

No, but Rebeca Zedan is a friend of Johnny Enrique Zedan,  Virginia A. Rahn Zedán, & Silvia Zedán, who are all friends of Sasha.

http://pl.facebook.com/people/Rebeca_Zedan/668840680


Thanks TM…I guess it is true…anyone can join facebook!

I am way behind the times….

Anyone see Lizette yet?

And more importantly, for me anyways, is anyone going to have a shot at connecting all those names?


There is a Lissette Clermont, friend of Rebeca's.

Maybe she married Michel.  ::MonkeyConfused:: ::MonkeyHaHa::

If the info came from SandraK...well...  ::MonkeyNoNo::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on July 03, 2008, 07:17:25 PM
Thanks vms...Two more that popped up since the last time I googled Zedan+Venezuela...Or did we have these already...weren't there a couple of weeks back...guess I need to check every day... ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyHaHa::

Guillermo Zedan | Facebook
This is Guillermo Zedan's public search listing on Facebook. Guillermo's friends can view photos, ... Name: Guillermo Zedan; Network: Venezuela ...www.facebook.com/people/Guillermo_Zedan/649138668 - 20k - Cached - Similar pages

Jorge Zedan | Facebook
This is Jorge Zedan's public search listing on Facebook. ... Name: Jorge Zedan; Network: Venezuela. Here are some of Jorge's friends on Facebook. ...www.facebook.com/people/Jorge_Zedan/696465962 -




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on July 03, 2008, 07:19:46 PM
Vms...I can't see anything on the facebook...tells me to log in...

Only 24 views on the profile on the other site...must be new...



Oops, Sorry.

Zedan friends:

Natasha Zedan

Johnny Enrique Zedan

Virginia A. Rahn Zedán
Venezuela
 
Silvia Zedán


Thanks vms...No Rebeca? SandraK said there was a Rebeca...LOL...and a Lissette in the US.

I wonder are they the Florida or Michigan Zedans...will check...

No, but Rebeca Zedan is a friend of Johnny Enrique Zedan,  Virginia A. Rahn Zedán, & Silvia Zedán, who are all friends of Sasha.

http://pl.facebook.com/people/Rebeca_Zedan/668840680


Thanks TM…I guess it is true…anyone can join facebook!

I am way behind the times….

Anyone see Lizette yet?

And more importantly, for me anyways, is anyone going to have a shot at connecting all those names?


There is a Lissette Clermont, friend of Rebeca's.

Maybe she married Michel.  ::MonkeyConfused:: ::MonkeyHaHa::

If the info came from SandraK...well...  ::MonkeyNoNo::


Didn't get this while I was doing my post.... ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: WhiskeyGirl on July 03, 2008, 09:26:35 PM
Pita, more from the link:

CAUTION - NOTE ABOUT SAFETY
If these caves are to become a tourist attraction they will need to be cleaned of trash, rubbish, garbage and other debris that has been left behind over the years. 

When my son went down in the caves there was signs that persons may have been living down there.  There are illegal aliens on the island, so use extreme caution if you intend to visit the caves and certainly do not do so alone.  

I wonder if any of these caves are by Lorenzo VR's place?  Was there any rumor or speculation about tunnels and his home?  The basement?

Back in the cobwebs of my memory, I seem to remember something about the Lago plant having many things left over from WWII that some speculated about...dumps, storage areas, etc.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Blonde on July 04, 2008, 10:55:28 AM
Rosalie Klein aka scubajap speaks with forked-tongue, but I am putting it here for ya'll to disseminate.

and Freddy is related to who?

Posted by: ustt | Oct 7, 2005 12:50:49 PM
_____________________________________________________________________
He has an Arubian mother and family-his father is in Venezuela -in the hospital, on his deathbed at the moment, if not gone already
And he has an alibi according to the police.

Posted by: scubajap | Oct 7, 2005 12:53:54 P



The VIP is owned by a Dutchman who has lived on the island for 3 months.
the Indo is owned by a Surinamese Man,
and there were a few hanging out there-I think there is probably a fair number of people from Surinam living in Aruba-Gerald Dompig is from Surinam, also
Posted by: scubajap | Oct 10, 2005 10:08:30 PM




MIP6-who is that? I have absolutely no idea who or what you are talking about-All I know is I have been to the VIP club twice now, and any of you can go there too if you are in Aruba, I ate at the Indo with my son, so-so nothing to jump up and down about-too much MSG,
and I spoke to the lady that lives in the house next door-the one in the picture that is the so called "Lion's Den" and she didn't like be bothered very much, either.

I find it very interesting that the Kalpoes cousin would be so hell bent on putting them back in jail, wouldn't you?

Who are these people??

Posted by: scubajap | Saturday, October 15, 2005 at 01:34 PM


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Blonde on July 04, 2008, 11:01:56 AM
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/The%20VDS%20Home/slootlargemarked.jpg)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Blonde on July 04, 2008, 11:04:17 AM
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/maps/FreddytoMontanaParkapartments.jpg)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Blonde on July 04, 2008, 11:05:39 AM
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/maps/pondview.jpg)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Blonde on July 04, 2008, 11:06:51 AM
Rob can you get a map with Joran and Freddy house together TY


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on July 04, 2008, 12:54:21 PM
LaLa's - the following Mansurs are friends on Chemaley's Facebook - Natessa, Elysha, Damilice, Miguel, Fernando, Davina, Izaira.


Does anyone have the names and ages of Jossy's children?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on July 04, 2008, 01:10:23 PM
Mum - I thought you might be interested in the Maricaibo connection.

Ingrid Suzette Moncada Chemaly
Boca Raton, Florida, United States

Ingrid Adele Chemaly Abudei
Boca Raton, Florida, United States

Ilse Caroline Chemaly Abudei
Maracaibo, Zulia, Venezuela

se Caroline Chemaly Abudei
Maracaibo, Zulia, Venezuela

http://www.geni.com/last-name/chemaly





Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on July 04, 2008, 02:15:07 PM
More for Mum.  I hope something here will help you.

http://www.geni.com/last-name/zedan

Sara Lidia Zedan
Coral Gables, Florida, United States


Frank Arambatzis
Business development manager at Bankwest
Current: Business development manager, Bankwest

Peter Arambatzis
United States: Greater Milwaukee Area
financial services 
CFO HFS North America at GE Inc.
Current: CFO HFS North America, GE Inc.

Wassi Arambatzis
Independent Individual & Family Services Professional
• Germany
• outsourcing/offshoring

http://www.linkedin.com/find/a/a44/a44_25.html


El Tribunal Supremo du Justicia, Venezuela

Vista la solicitud interpuesta por el ciudadano MOISES AID ZEDAN VELAZCO, titular de la Cédula de Identidad Nº 10.412.154, residenciado en esta ciudad de Maracaibo del Estado Zulia, donde requiere la entrega del vehículo MARCA CHEVROLET, PLACAS 804AFA, SERIAL DE CARROCERIA CCD14AV213424, SERIAL DEL MOTOR T0401CEJ, MODELO C-10, AÑO 1.980, COLOR ROJO, este Tribunal para Decidir observa:


- Delegación Maracaibo, y que por el Ministerio de Transporte y Comunicaciones registra a nombre del ciudadano ZEDAN VELAZCO JOSE, titular de la cedula de identidad N° 10.412.154.
http://lara.tsj.gov.ve/decisiones/2005/agosto/546-10-S3C-109-05-1.193-05.html


Jorge Alberto Zedan Abudei

8vo. Director Suplente

Licenciando en Ciencias y Artes Militares A.M. V. Año 1973, Ingeniero en Sistema Escuela Superior. Argentina Año 1980, Programa Avanzado de Gerencia IESA Año 1983, Se desempeño como Director de la Academia Militar de Venezuela Durante los años 1996-1997 y 1997-1998, y fue Presidente del Instituto de Previsión Local de las Fuerzas Armadas Nacionales.
http://www.abamc.com/content/page.aspx?ID=19


Reinhard Rahn Cosimi

"Reini" "Reini"

(QEPD) (Qepd)
Sus hijos: Guillermo, Ada y Chichia Rahn Lara, Gloria, Helen y Reini Rahn Machado; hijos políticos: Rebeca Zedan de Rahn, Carlos Rodríguez Gómez y Nino Donzelli; sus nietos: Rahn Zedan, Briceño Rahn, Rodríguez Rahn, Rahn Pashen y Donzelli Rahn; sus cuñadas, sobrinos demás familiares y amigos. His sons: William, Ada and Chichi Rahn Lara, Gloria, Helen and Reini Rahn Machado; political children: Rebecca Zedan of Rahn, Carlos Rodriguez and Gomez Nino Donzelli; their grandchildren: Rahn Zedan, Briceño Rahn, Rodriguez Rahn, Rahn Pasha and Donzelli Rahn; their sisters, nephews other relatives and friends.
Hecho acaecido en la ciudad de Maracaibo, el día 26 de septiembre de 2003. Done occurred in Maracaibo, on September 26, 2003.
Se efectuará una misa por su eterno descanso el martes 30 de septiembre, a las 6:30 pm, en la Capilla Santa Ana, Av. There will be a Mass for his eternal rest on Tuesday, September 30, at 6:30 pm in the Chapel Santa Ana, Av. Principal de La Lagunita, con calle P3-3 El Portal. Principal of La Lagunita, with street P3-3 El Portal.
Paz a sus restos Peace be with his remains
Caracas, 28 de septiembre de 2003 Caracas, September 28, 2003
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=es&u=http://universo.eluniversal.com/2003/09/28/nec_art_28N7695565.shtml&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=19&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dzedan%2Bmaracaibo%26num%3D50%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DG



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Observer on July 04, 2008, 03:40:20 PM
LaLa's - the following Mansurs are friends on Chemaley's Facebook - Natessa, Elysha, Damilice, Miguel, Fernando, Davina, Izaira.


Does anyone have the names and ages of Jossy's children?
Jossy's daughter just got married a few weeks ago..There was pictures and a full write up I believe at Arubatoday. I went back to copy it but couldn't access the archives.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: vms on July 04, 2008, 05:44:31 PM
Gijs Vant proves if you "Aint Dutch, you Aint Much"    
Friday, 04 July 2008 

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a398/vms58/winners.jpg)

 PALM BEACH - Recently, the most popular bartenders on the island went head to head in a super hot competition against one another for the coolest cocktail on the island. Last Friday night, thousands of spectators participated in a taste contest for the best island cocktail at Paseo Herencia Mall across from the Holiday Inn Sunspree Resort. Some absolutely marvelous cocktail concoctions were created by some of the finest bartenders on the island.   
  Hands down the most popular drink of the night was the "Aint Dutch, Aint Much" cocktail by Gijs Vant of MooMba Beach Bar and Restaurant. A close runner up was the popular bartender Natasha Zedan from Marriott Hotels with her "Aruba Pink Passion".

Bartender Lee Croes of Mr. Jazz came in third place with his delicacy "Rose Fall" closely followed by Bartender Gregory Rasminj of Mr. Conga with his namesake "Mr. Conga".
Bartender Victor Calmes of Mathew's Restaurant finished in 5th place with his popular "Bull Kiss".
Photos by Julia Renfro
 
http://www.arubatoday.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=284&Itemid=1


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on July 04, 2008, 05:52:26 PM
Gijs Vant proves if you "Aint Dutch, you Aint Much"    
Friday, 04 July 2008 

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a398/vms58/winners.jpg)

 PALM BEACH - Recently, the most popular bartenders on the island went head to head in a super hot competition against one another for the coolest cocktail on the island. Last Friday night, thousands of spectators participated in a taste contest for the best island cocktail at Paseo Herencia Mall across from the Holiday Inn Sunspree Resort. Some absolutely marvelous cocktail concoctions were created by some of the finest bartenders on the island.   
  Hands down the most popular drink of the night was the "Aint Dutch, Aint Much" cocktail by Gijs Vant of MooMba Beach Bar and Restaurant. A close runner up was the popular bartender Natasha Zedan from Marriott Hotels with her "Aruba Pink Passion".

Bartender Lee Croes of Mr. Jazz came in third place with his delicacy "Rose Fall" closely followed by Bartender Gregory Rasminj of Mr. Conga with his namesake "Mr. Conga".
Bartender Victor Calmes of Mathew's Restaurant finished in 5th place with his popular "Bull Kiss".
Photos by Julia Renfro
 
http://www.arubatoday.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=284&Itemid=1

But...but...Caps said Zedans=0?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: vms on July 04, 2008, 06:11:55 PM
Gijs Vant proves if you "Aint Dutch, you Aint Much"    
Friday, 04 July 2008 

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a398/vms58/winners.jpg)

 PALM BEACH - Recently, the most popular bartenders on the island went head to head in a super hot competition against one another for the coolest cocktail on the island. Last Friday night, thousands of spectators participated in a taste contest for the best island cocktail at Paseo Herencia Mall across from the Holiday Inn Sunspree Resort. Some absolutely marvelous cocktail concoctions were created by some of the finest bartenders on the island.   
  Hands down the most popular drink of the night was the "Aint Dutch, Aint Much" cocktail by Gijs Vant of MooMba Beach Bar and Restaurant. A close runner up was the popular bartender Natasha Zedan from Marriott Hotels with her "Aruba Pink Passion".

Bartender Lee Croes of Mr. Jazz came in third place with his delicacy "Rose Fall" closely followed by Bartender Gregory Rasminj of Mr. Conga with his namesake "Mr. Conga".
Bartender Victor Calmes of Mathew's Restaurant finished in 5th place with his popular "Bull Kiss".
Photos by Julia Renfro
 
http://www.arubatoday.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=284&Itemid=1

But...but...Caps said Zedans=0?

Yes, that's why I posted it. That and the fact that she is also listed as Sasha's friend on facebook, or at least someone with the same exact name.

Maybe Caps needs to check the database again.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: vms on July 04, 2008, 06:17:05 PM
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a398/vms58/Sasha-myyearbook.jpg)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: vms on July 04, 2008, 06:22:37 PM
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a398/vms58/Sasha-Flixter.jpg)

http://www.flixster.com/user/sashavr


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: vms on July 04, 2008, 06:59:31 PM
Scubajap's Myspace:

About me:
I am originally from the States, but relocated to Aruba years ago as a certified PADI Open Water SCUBA Instructor. After a long career in the Watersports Industry I began writing for the English Newspapers and several magazines, and am known for my nature photography and silk painting. I have a very positive attitude towards life, as for me personally, I find every day an adventure. In my work, and in my life, something new and exciting happens nearly every day. 

Who I'd like to meet:
I am happy to advise anyone coming to Aruba about interesting things to see and do, and what I think are some of the best restaurants and deals. If you are coming to Aruba and need some advice, I am happy to help. Hadn't really thought about MySpace as a way to "meet" people, but I welcome penpals. 

http://profile.myspace.com/212638426



Flixter:
http://www.flixster.com/user/rosalie3


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on July 04, 2008, 09:17:18 PM
Scubajap's Myspace:

About me:
I am originally from the States, but relocated to Aruba years ago as a certified PADI Open Water SCUBA Instructor. After a long career in the Watersports Industry I began writing for the English Newspapers and several magazines, and am known for my nature photography and silk painting. I have a very positive attitude towards life, as for me personally, I find every day an adventure. In my work, and in my life, something new and exciting happens nearly every day. 

Who I'd like to meet:
I am happy to advise anyone coming to Aruba about interesting things to see and do, and what I think are some of the best restaurants and deals. If you are coming to Aruba and need some advice, I am happy to help. Hadn't really thought about MySpace as a way to "meet" people, but I welcome penpals. 

http://profile.myspace.com/212638426



Flixter:
http://www.flixster.com/user/rosalie3



Well, maybe we could all start sending her MySpace messages asking if she can tell us where Natalee is.  ::MonkeyRoll::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Observer on July 04, 2008, 09:31:37 PM
Scubajap's Myspace:

About me:
I am originally from the States, but relocated to Aruba years ago as a certified PADI Open Water SCUBA Instructor. After a long career in the Watersports Industry I began writing for the English Newspapers and several magazines, and am known for my nature photography and silk painting. I have a very positive attitude towards life, as for me personally, I find every day an adventure. In my work, and in my life, something new and exciting happens nearly every day. 

Who I'd like to meet:
I am happy to advise anyone coming to Aruba about interesting things to see and do, and what I think are some of the best restaurants and deals. If you are coming to Aruba and need some advice, I am happy to help. Hadn't really thought about MySpace as a way to "meet" people, but I welcome penpals. 

http://profile.myspace.com/212638426



Flixter:
http://www.flixster.com/user/rosalie3



Well, maybe we could all start sending her MySpace messages asking if she can tell us where Natalee is.  ::MonkeyRoll::

Just tell her that her moment moment is up and you want to know why Lorenzo was never questioned like Joran.. WTF? It bothers all of us just not her,but if the bitch is holding back information she should let it be known,no matter how complicated.
===================================
Has his own boat, I had mentioned him previously.
But, they did bring him in twice, searched his boat, his house, his car and no forensics.
This is a little more complicated than I can fully explain here, let's just say it has always bothered me why they didn't question him like they questioned Joran, and leave it at that for the moment, OK?
Posted by: scubajap | Oct 16, 2005 10:07:43 PM


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on July 04, 2008, 10:48:14 PM
Gijs Vant proves if you "Aint Dutch, you Aint Much"    
Friday, 04 July 2008 

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a398/vms58/winners.jpg)

 PALM BEACH - Recently, the most popular bartenders on the island went head to head in a super hot competition against one another for the coolest cocktail on the island. Last Friday night, thousands of spectators participated in a taste contest for the best island cocktail at Paseo Herencia Mall across from the Holiday Inn Sunspree Resort. Some absolutely marvelous cocktail concoctions were created by some of the finest bartenders on the island.   
  Hands down the most popular drink of the night was the "Aint Dutch, Aint Much" cocktail by Gijs Vant of MooMba Beach Bar and Restaurant. A close runner up was the popular bartender Natasha Zedan from Marriott Hotels with her "Aruba Pink Passion".

Bartender Lee Croes of Mr. Jazz came in third place with his delicacy "Rose Fall" closely followed by Bartender Gregory Rasminj of Mr. Conga with his namesake "Mr. Conga".
Bartender Victor Calmes of Mathew's Restaurant finished in 5th place with his popular "Bull Kiss".
Photos by Julia Renfro
 
http://www.arubatoday.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=284&Itemid=1

JR on duty, I see....


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on July 04, 2008, 10:54:02 PM
Arambatziz-Zedan
Confusion over Freddy's last name is said to result from naming conventions which can be difficult for some to interpret. Apparently the name of both parents or their family names are taken at birth and Zedan may be Freddy's Mother's maiden name.

Anyone want to take a shot at this now??

ARAMBATZIS-RODRIGUEZ ALBERT              LILIAN REGINA.
ARAMBATZIS PEREZ                                ROBBY GERARDUS
ZEDAN ARAMBATZIS                               FREDDY ALEXANDER aka ARENDS
ARAMBATZIS-ZEDAN                               FREDDY ALEXANDER aka ARENDS
RODRIGUEZ ARAMBATZIS                         SASHA VICTORIA
ARAMBATZIS                                         ERNESTO
                                                          GHIS?

____________________________


OK Mum, I'm going to take wild shot at the name game......

Lilian was born Lilian Regina Rodriguez Albert.  Her father (Rodriguez) must be Hispanic and her mother (Albert) was probably Dutch.  She is married to her second husband.  The last name of Husband #2 is Arambatzis.  Her name should be Lilian Regina Arambatzis Rodriguez, but for some reason she has held on to Albert, her mother's maiden name.  So, she incorrectly calls herself Lilian Regina Arambatzis Rodriguez Albert.

Ernesto was born Ernesto Zedan Rodriguez Albert, if husband #1 was his Zedan father.  Otherwise, he would be Ernesto Rodriguez Albert, if he was illegitimate.  When Lilian married for the second time, Arambatzis adopted Ernesto, which does tell me that he probably was illegitimate.  So, he is either Ernesto Arambatzis Zedan Rodriguez or Ernesto Arambatzis Rodriguez (+/- Albert).  Ernesto is a model and into the night life. He came to the US to school.  He probably dropped all of the names except the adopted name of Ernesto Arambatzis.  He was probably illegitimate and some wealthy man did his paternity obligation by paying his tuitions.  Ernesto goes by his adopted last name and it is probably less embarrassing than using his mother's maiden name which tells the world that he was illegitimate.

Freddy's biological father is Zedan and Freddy's correct name is Freddy Alexander Zedan Rodriguez (+/- Albert).  His father was Lilian's first husband.  Lilian's second husband has also adopted him or he is just incorrectly using his mother's second married name. so he now goes by Freddy Alexander Zedan Arambatzis or Freddy Alexander Arambatzis Zedan (+/- Rodriguez Albert), depending if there is a special order of last names with adoptions.

Sasha Victoria Arambatzis Rodriguez (+/- Albert) is Sasha's correct name.  Current husband, Arambatzis, is probably her biological father because Zedan isn't in her name at all.

Ghis isn't a real sister and was only fooling around in the newspaper because she and Freddy are good friends and she feels like a little sister to him.

Arends is complete nonsense.  The name was probably mixed up with Max in the beginning and the newspapers just rolled with it.

Robby Gerardus Arambatzis Perez is either Lilian's husband (his mother's name is Perez), a brother-in-law of Lilian, or a cousin of Lilian's husband.

Does this make sense? ::MonkeyConfused::  I have no clue if this is correct.  It's just a guess.  ::MonkeyRoll::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: vms on July 04, 2008, 10:56:23 PM
06-08-2008, 11:47 PM    post #1 (permalink)   
dksk
Junior Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 5   Wedding Photographer - Julia Renfro

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Julia Renfro photographed our wedding in Aruba on May 20, 2008. Our pictures are beautiful! Julia does wonderful work. She was also so much fun to spend time with. Julia went out of her way to make sure we had our pictures before we left Aruba.
We couldn't have asked for a better photographer!! We would highly recommend her to anyone.
Deborah & Scott Kacur
     
http://www.aruba.com/forum/f13/wedding-photographer-julia-renfro-31606/


 :roll:  :roll:  :roll:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on July 05, 2008, 04:58:45 AM
LaLa's - the following Mansurs are friends on Chemaley's Facebook - Natessa, Elysha, Damilice, Miguel, Fernando, Davina, Izaira.


Does anyone have the names and ages of Jossy's children?

SS…Not sure which belong to Jossy.  Pretty sure on Damilice, lives in Aruba and Miami. Jossy is 73 and has grand children in the US. Not sure who Fernando, 28, belongs to?

Luis M. Mansur
Jossy E. Mansur -42
Eduardo Mansur
Damilice Mansur –37

Thanks Blonde…not making any sense of Caps’ drawing now! ::MonkeyConfused::

Hotping ...sorry ...nothing!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on July 05, 2008, 05:06:57 AM
Gijs Vant proves if you "Aint Dutch, you Aint Much"    
Friday, 04 July 2008 

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a398/vms58/winners.jpg)

 PALM BEACH - Recently, the most popular bartenders on the island went head to head in a super hot competition against one another for the coolest cocktail on the island. Last Friday night, thousands of spectators participated in a taste contest for the best island cocktail at Paseo Herencia Mall across from the Holiday Inn Sunspree Resort. Some absolutely marvelous cocktail concoctions were created by some of the finest bartenders on the island.   
  Hands down the most popular drink of the night was the "Aint Dutch, Aint Much" cocktail by Gijs Vant of MooMba Beach Bar and Restaurant. A close runner up was the popular bartender Natasha Zedan from Marriott Hotels with her "Aruba Pink Passion".

Bartender Lee Croes of Mr. Jazz came in third place with his delicacy "Rose Fall" closely followed by Bartender Gregory Rasminj of Mr. Conga with his namesake "Mr. Conga".
Bartender Victor Calmes of Mathew's Restaurant finished in 5th place with his popular "Bull Kiss".
Photos by Julia Renfro
 
http://www.arubatoday.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=284&Itemid=1

But...but...Caps said Zedans=0?

Yes, that's why I posted it. That and the fact that she is also listed as Sasha's friend on facebook, or at least someone with the same exact name.

Maybe Caps needs to check the database again.


But…but, Caps never posted any database info on Arambatzis or Arends, IIRC….and said there were no Zedans to post about!


Notice anything? ::MonkeyWink::

http://www.hollowaycase.com/archive/police_documents/joran69.htm

To your question with whom I regularly go to Carlos & Charlies, I answer you that I regularly go there with "Freddy ZEDAN" and "Jaime CARASQUIA". Freddy is a Venezuelan and Jaime is a Columbian. The boy named "Koen GOTENBOS" also regularly goes out with us. The names of my three friends are in the memory of my mobile phone. Freddy is under the name "Fefi" and Koen under the name "Cul".

http://www.hollowaycase.com/archive/police_documents/deepak610.htm

To your question whether these are local girls or tourists, I can state the following. They are tourists.
To your question as to who is the one who makes the first move towards the girls we are going to pick up, I can state the following. It usually is Joran or another friend with the name Freddy Zedan.

http://www.hollowaycase.com/archive/police_documents/deepak611.htm

To your question whether I know if Joran told the story to someone else, than I can say the following. I know Joran told his story to his friend named Freddy ZEDAN. Freddy lives behind Joran. His mobile phone number is in my mobile phone.






Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on July 05, 2008, 06:09:01 AM
Arambatziz-Zedan
Confusion over Freddy's last name is said to result from naming conventions which can be difficult for some to interpret. Apparently the name of both parents or their family names are taken at birth and Zedan may be Freddy's Mother's maiden name.

Anyone want to take a shot at this now??

ARAMBATZIS-RODRIGUEZ ALBERT              LILIAN REGINA.
ARAMBATZIS PEREZ                                ROBBY GERARDUS
ZEDAN ARAMBATZIS                               FREDDY ALEXANDER aka ARENDS
ARAMBATZIS-ZEDAN                               FREDDY ALEXANDER aka ARENDS
RODRIGUEZ ARAMBATZIS                         SASHA VICTORIA
ARAMBATZIS                                         ERNESTO
                                                          GHIS?

____________________________


OK Mum, I'm going to take wild shot at the name game......

Lilian was born Lilian Regina Rodriguez Albert.  Her father (Rodriguez) must be Hispanic and her mother (Albert) was probably Dutch.  She is married to her second husband.  The last name of Husband #2 is Arambatzis.  Her name should be Lilian Regina Arambatzis Rodriguez, but for some reason she has held on to Albert, her mother's maiden name.  So, she incorrectly calls herself Lilian Regina Arambatzis Rodriguez Albert.

Ernesto was born Ernesto Zedan Rodriguez Albert, if husband #1 was his Zedan father.  Otherwise, he would be Ernesto Rodriguez Albert, if he was illegitimate.  When Lilian married for the second time, Arambatzis adopted Ernesto, which does tell me that he probably was illegitimate.  So, he is either Ernesto Arambatzis Zedan Rodriguez or Ernesto Arambatzis Rodriguez (+/- Albert).  Ernesto is a model and into the night life. He came to the US to school.  He probably dropped all of the names except the adopted name of Ernesto Arambatzis.  He was probably illegitimate and some wealthy man did his paternity obligation by paying his tuitions.  Ernesto goes by his adopted last name and it is probably less embarrassing than using his mother's maiden name which tells the world that he was illegitimate.

Freddy's biological father is Zedan and Freddy's correct name is Freddy Alexander Zedan Rodriguez (+/- Albert).  His father was Lilian's first husband.  Lilian's second husband has also adopted him or he is just incorrectly using his mother's second married name. so he now goes by Freddy Alexander Zedan Arambatzis or Freddy Alexander Arambatzis Zedan (+/- Rodriguez Albert), depending if there is a special order of last names with adoptions.

Sasha Victoria Arambatzis Rodriguez (+/- Albert) is Sasha's correct name.  Current husband, Arambatzis, is probably her biological father because Zedan isn't in her name at all.

Ghis isn't a real sister and was only fooling around in the newspaper because she and Freddy are good friends and she feels like a little sister to him.

Arends is complete nonsense.  The name was probably mixed up with Max in the beginning and the newspapers just rolled with it.

Robby Gerardus Arambatzis Perez is either Lilian's husband (his mother's name is Perez), a brother-in-law of Lilian, or a cousin of Lilian's husband.

Does this make sense? ::MonkeyConfused::  I have no clue if this is correct.  It's just a guess.  ::MonkeyRoll::

Will have to spend some time on this…SS…Thanks!

IIRC…Arends came from Freddy’s own sites as an aka, will need to check.

Also need to check, but I thought the Ghis, Freddy birthday pic was in Diario…

Have had my eye on the Rodriguez name since I first heard of Sasha...

Perez,Arambatzis connection...Bradenton Florida...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on July 05, 2008, 08:39:04 AM
More Scuba...

No ISA students on the Log for around this time or for a month earlier. In fact neither Max Arends or Max Arendz appears on the Log at all!

IIRC, this is around the time the alibi and the video stories started.


Scuba From RWV:

As I said before what about Freddy ? he's always with Joran an Deepak at the bar's an get togethers an his name hasnt come up yet ?

Posted by: NorthAla | Thursday, August 11, 2005 at 08:38 PM



Possibly - this is Max Arends? - I remember this name early on as someone that came in for questioning by the LE.



Don't think it is Max-I know his father very well, and he told me he is not that close to Joran, and this was a month ago, and all the classmates were brought in for questioning-not only Max

Posted by: scubajap | Thursday, August 11, 2005 at 09:07 PM

Don't think it is Max-I know his father very well, and he told me he is not that close to Joran, and this was a month ago, and all the classmates were brought in for questioning-not only Max

Posted by: scubajap | August 11, 2005 09:07 PM

Is this the Max that is Lorenzo's alibi or is there another Max?

Posted by: (((AG))) | Thursday, August 11, 2005 at 09:08 PM

Just got off the phone with Bibi (Max,sr) Arends, Max's father. They are sitting in a movie theatre in Orlando, Florida at this very moment, because Max is going to school there. So I doubt he is giving a statement in Aruba. Bibi informs me Max has never stayed over in Joran's house.

Posted by: scubajap | Thursday, August 11, 2005 at 09:13 PM


Name; OSMAN FAROUK OSMAN
Date: 06 August 2005
Pages: 2
Writer /Initiator: DENNIS JACOBS / ERIC SOEMERS
Description: witness statement by an Automotive Center employee

 Name: Carlos Penata Ramos
Date: 11 August 2005
Pages: 1 (6 attachments of boat crew list)
Writer/Initiator: Dennis Jacobs/ Eric Soemers
Description: witness statement

Name: Margaritha Dijkhoff (van der Sloot maid) (third statement)
Date: 11 August 2005
Pages: 3
Writer/Initiator Dennis Jacobs /Eric Soemers
Description: witness statement





Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Silverfox on July 05, 2008, 09:02:37 AM
Arambatziz-Zedan
Confusion over Freddy's last name is said to result from naming conventions which can be difficult for some to interpret. Apparently the name of both parents or their family names are taken at birth and Zedan may be Freddy's Mother's maiden name.

Anyone want to take a shot at this now??

ARAMBATZIS-RODRIGUEZ ALBERT              LILIAN REGINA.
ARAMBATZIS PEREZ                                ROBBY GERARDUS
ZEDAN ARAMBATZIS                               FREDDY ALEXANDER aka ARENDS
ARAMBATZIS-ZEDAN                               FREDDY ALEXANDER aka ARENDS
RODRIGUEZ ARAMBATZIS                         SASHA VICTORIA
ARAMBATZIS                                         ERNESTO
                                                          GHIS?

____________________________


OK Mum, I'm going to take wild shot at the name game......

Lilian was born Lilian Regina Rodriguez Albert.  Her father (Rodriguez) must be Hispanic and her mother (Albert) was probably Dutch.  She is married to her second husband.  The last name of Husband #2 is Arambatzis.  Her name should be Lilian Regina Arambatzis Rodriguez, but for some reason she has held on to Albert, her mother's maiden name.  So, she incorrectly calls herself Lilian Regina Arambatzis Rodriguez Albert.

Ernesto was born Ernesto Zedan Rodriguez Albert, if husband #1 was his Zedan father.  Otherwise, he would be Ernesto Rodriguez Albert, if he was illegitimate.  When Lilian married for the second time, Arambatzis adopted Ernesto, which does tell me that he probably was illegitimate.  So, he is either Ernesto Arambatzis Zedan Rodriguez or Ernesto Arambatzis Rodriguez (+/- Albert).  Ernesto is a model and into the night life. He came to the US to school.  He probably dropped all of the names except the adopted name of Ernesto Arambatzis.  He was probably illegitimate and some wealthy man did his paternity obligation by paying his tuitions.  Ernesto goes by his adopted last name and it is probably less embarrassing than using his mother's maiden name which tells the world that he was illegitimate.

Freddy's biological father is Zedan and Freddy's correct name is Freddy Alexander Zedan Rodriguez (+/- Albert).  His father was Lilian's first husband.  Lilian's second husband has also adopted him or he is just incorrectly using his mother's second married name. so he now goes by Freddy Alexander Zedan Arambatzis or Freddy Alexander Arambatzis Zedan (+/- Rodriguez Albert), depending if there is a special order of last names with adoptions.

Sasha Victoria Arambatzis Rodriguez (+/- Albert) is Sasha's correct name.  Current husband, Arambatzis, is probably her biological father because Zedan isn't in her name at all.

Ghis isn't a real sister and was only fooling around in the newspaper because she and Freddy are good friends and she feels like a little sister to him.

Arends is complete nonsense.  The name was probably mixed up with Max in the beginning and the newspapers just rolled with it.

Robby Gerardus Arambatzis Perez is either Lilian's husband (his mother's name is Perez), a brother-in-law of Lilian, or a cousin of Lilian's husband.

Does this make sense? ::MonkeyConfused::  I have no clue if this is correct.  It's just a guess.  ::MonkeyRoll::

It is possible that the culture there could be similar as it is here, in the Philippines.

A matriarchal society rather than patriarchal.

Meaning, that unless married with formal proof of certified and validated marriage certificate the baby always assumes the mother's maiden name -- even if the father is in "residence".

Meaning, that the chld, if parents are legally married, always assumes the middle name (not hypenated) of the mother's maiden name.

Which might explain why Anita has so much "family power" while on Aruba.

And also why the names are all screwed up.

his is the way it is here in the Philippines.  The father never ever assumes the last name unles a valid and certified brith certificate is provided to the registrar of births -- and then if that happens the middle name is always the mother's maiden name.

just try8ing to put some perspective here (and also why it is nearly impossible to have a tu\rue "Junior" here -- and possibly there)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Silverfox on July 05, 2008, 09:04:35 AM
Please excuse the typos as I am always writing to you from the future...LOL


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on July 05, 2008, 10:45:11 AM
Mum - I thought of another possiblity with the name game.

Ernesto Arambatzis-(mother's maiden name) could be the legitimate son of Robby Arambatzis.  His parents could be divorced or his mother could be dead.  When his father married Lilian, his name didn't change.  He could be Lilian's step-son, a step-brother to Freddy, and a half-brother to Sasha.  Ernesto could have other siblings or relatives named Arambatzis in Florida, that wouldn't be relatives of Freddy - only Sasha.  Ernesto could have been in Bradenton because of his biological mother or aunts and uncles.  If his mother is still alive, she could have a new name in Florida.  Have you found him living anywhere with someone?  His paternal grandparents are probably Arambatzis and Perez.

I do think that Freddy and Sasha have similar features.  Ernesto doesn't look like either of them.

IIRC, Ernesto at one point told Freddy to stop using Arambatzis?  Maybe this was because Arambatzis isn't Freddy's name at all and he just uses it because everyone else in the family uses Arambatzis.  It might be unlikely that Robby Arambatzis-Perez adopted Freddy if his Zedan father was still alive in Venezuela.  Unless he was adopted by Robby Arambatzis, his real name should be Freddy Alexander Zedan-Rodriguez (+/- Albert).Arends could be his paternal grandmother's name.  His father could likely have been Father Zedan-Arends.  Put it all together and you get Freddy Alexander Zedan Arends Rodrigues Albert, and Arambtazis is not offical at all and only used around the neighborhood to identify him with his family that uses the Arambatzis name.  His correct name is probably Freddy Alexander Zedan just as it says in the police statements.

I do think that Robby is probably Lilian's husband.  If Ernesto is Robby's biological son, this might be why Ernesto got the fancy education that Freddy and Sasha didn't get.  The Florida connection is Arambatzis and Perez, not Zedan or Rodriguez.  Ernesto is probably only related to Freddy through marriage, but he's Sasha's half-brother.

This is making me crazy. ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on July 05, 2008, 11:34:14 AM
Mum - this is just a guess, but these are probably the most logical connections.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on July 05, 2008, 11:53:50 AM
Mum - this is a correction to the first chart, because my program isn't set up to handle multiple last names.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on July 05, 2008, 12:10:55 PM
Mum - I have just had a very firm talk with one of my genealogy programs.  It now accepts multiple last names.  ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on July 05, 2008, 12:45:28 PM
Mum - this is just a guess, but these are probably the most logical connections.

According to this...Freddy is not related at all to Sasha is he?  Or do I mean Ernesto?  So why did Ernesto attend Sasha's big bash?  Can anyone see my eyes rolling back in my head?  ::MonkeyConfused::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on July 05, 2008, 01:05:31 PM
Mum - this is just a guess, but these are probably the most logical connections.

According to this...Freddy is not related at all to Sasha is he?  Or do I mean Ernesto?  So why did Ernesto attend Sasha's big bash?  Can anyone see my eyes rolling back in my head?  ::MonkeyConfused::



If the chart is correct, Freddy and Ernesto are step-brothers.  They are only related to each other through the marriage of Freddy's mother and Ernesto's father.

Sasha is a half-sister to both Freddy and Ernesto.  Freddy and Sasha share a mother.  Ernesto and Sasha share a father.  For Lilian and Robby, it's mine, yours, and ours - a blended family.

I don't believe that Arambatzis is Freddy's legal name, unless Lilian's husband adopted him. That's most likely why he stopped using it and stayed with Zedan.  According to the police records which say that his name is Freddy Alexander Zedan, this chart would be correct.  But, it's Aruba and who knows.  This configuration would eliminate all of the illegitimate child guesses.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on July 05, 2008, 01:06:51 PM
Mum - this is just a guess, but these are probably the most logical connections.

According to this...Freddy is not related at all to Sasha is he?  Or do I mean Ernesto?  So why did Ernesto attend Sasha's big bash?  Can anyone see my eyes rolling back in my head?  ::MonkeyConfused::


LOL...Not sure Lala's...No good at this stuff!...Thanks SS....more questions...going to take a good look at it later....Weeds are screaming at me....

SS...Did you see the possibles on Mansur?

I agree 2NJ_Sons...Julia is still getting paid I guess, not sure it is money...Wonder what her other names are, the barmaid, not Renfro? And she even works at the Marriott...Maybe she is Ghis' sister!

Do any veteran posters recall if this was the first mention of a surname other than Zedan for Freddy? And if Art Wood was still in Aruba? TIA

Fri Aug 26, 2005

5:06 pm
sunmoonstars: Catherine Crier Fri

Based on the same suspicions as before. There are new suspicions, or they couldn't re arrest the K brothers.

Art Wood: We have known for a long time that the LE have statements from these boys. They Know where Natalee is.

Freddy Arandashi?? Uses the name Freddy Arends, he is a close friend and neighbor of Jorans.

5:07 pm
AZlady: On the radio said that four new arrests were made, but then I heard it was only three. Anyway, I heard the name of one guy, but I don't know if it's right or not.

5:08 pm
sunmoonstars: AG: Art Wood is saying Freddy Arandashi?? also says he goes by Freddy Arends.

5:09 pm
arubagirl: I think it's not Arends. I'll check it out on Monday.

5:10 pm
DT: The ex-girlfriend of Joran, Melody or whatever, is saying on RWV that the guy's name is Freddy Zedan.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on July 05, 2008, 01:14:29 PM
SS...I am hoping some of our posters have long memories and can recall if the Arambatzis was new when Freddy was arrested or not.

Otherwise I have a lot of reading to do... ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on July 05, 2008, 01:22:42 PM
And still we do not know who Freddy's father is... ::MonkeyNoNo::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on July 05, 2008, 01:34:59 PM
SS...I am hoping some of our posters have long memories and can recall if the Arambatzis was new when Freddy was arrested or not.

Otherwise I have a lot of reading to do... ::MonkeyHaHa::




Mum - I put Freddy's father's mother as Arends(?) because Freddy had claimed to be aka Arends.  It could actually be Arandashi as Art Woods stated.   If we can figure this out, I'll change it on the chart.  I have no idea where Ghis would fit in here, if at all.  We need to know more about her, including her age and last name.  Depending on her age and full name, she could be Freddy's biological sister through Lilian and Zedan.  She could be the daughter of Lilian and Robby.  She could be Ernesto's biological sister through Robby and Ernesto's mother.  She could also be the daughter of Zedan and a second wife or the daughter of Ernesto's mother and a second husband.  Ghis could be Freddy's sister, half-sister, step-sister, or nothing at all.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on July 05, 2008, 01:44:56 PM
Mum - this is just a guess, but these are probably the most logical connections.

According to this...Freddy is not related at all to Sasha is he?  Or do I mean Ernesto?  So why did Ernesto attend Sasha's big bash?  Can anyone see my eyes rolling back in my head?  ::MonkeyConfused::



If the chart is correct, Freddy and Ernesto are step-brothers.  They are only related to each other through the marriage of Freddy's mother and Ernesto's father.

Sasha is a half-sister to both Freddy and Ernesto.  Freddy and Sasha share a mother.  Ernesto and Sasha share a father.  For Lilian and Robby, it's mine, yours, and ours - a blended family.

I don't believe that Arambatzis is Freddy's legal name, unless Lilian's husband adopted him. That's most likely why he stopped using it and stayed with Zedan.  According to the police records which say that his name is Freddy Alexander Zedan, this chart would be correct.  But, it's Aruba and who knows.  This configuration would eliminate all of the illegitimate child guesses.



Mum and LaLa's - If we can figure out the name of Ernesto's mother (plus any possible additional marriages for her) and any other possible siblings through Robby's first marriage to Ernesto's mother, it might just throw open some big Florida doors.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on July 05, 2008, 02:43:49 PM
If Freddy's genealogy chart is correct, it would certainly explain why he claims to have been born in Maricaibo and Ernesto claimed to be from in a different location in Venezuela, when he was at Bradenton Prep.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on July 05, 2008, 06:56:54 PM
Mum - I have been digging and I think that I can link all of our Arambatzis information together.

Mayra Arambatzis Ribiero Smalley (11/24/56) is the mother of Ernesto, according to what you found.  Her picture is below.  I don't have a maiden name.  It's possible that it's Prada.  She is connected to Nicholas and Editha because they are her former in-laws.  She was most likely Robby's first wife.

Nicholas and Editha (Perez?) are probably the parents of Robby and Julio Caesar (12/13/58).  It looks like Julio has been married twice - Tania M. Cordoza and Sandra Smith.  I don't know who D. Arambatzis is unless maybe another sibling of Robby.

If Victor Arambatzis is Mayra's son and vms has the proof, then he is also Robby's son and the full brother of Ernesto. Victor Manuel Arambatzis is married to Maria T.  I will make an Arambatzis chart.  ::MonkeyHaHa::

I have also found a Claudia Arambatzis and a Cristina Arambatzis.  Cristina lives in Paris.  These two are most likely full sisters or cousins of Ernesto.

I have found some Zedan connections in Venezuela.  I have found Natasha Zedan, Johnny Enrique Zedan, Virginia A. Rahn Zedan, Silvia Zedan, Jorge Zedan, and Guillermo Zedan.  These Zedans look like they are Freddy's cousins, but it is possible that one or more could be a sibling of Freddy, a child of Lilian.  I also found possible cousins with the last names Auvert and Adudei.  These likely cousins are in Venezuela and there are also Adudeis in Florida.

I have found a Pedro Rodriguez and there is a possibility that he could be Lilian's sibling.  I also found a Rebecca Zedan who could be Freddy's paternal grandmother.

I'm off to make a chart.  ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on July 05, 2008, 07:05:04 PM
Victor Smalley, half-brother of Ernesto.


Makeup trainer for Let's Makeup!
Dancer & part owner of Stars Dance Studio
Young Entrepenour 19 years oldNatural borned Makeup Artist
Mary Kay Independant Beauty Consultant
Victor brings out the Trend of Fashion in colorful fun  fresh new look.
He would create a Dream look for you so Makeup your Mind is the class for you!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on July 05, 2008, 07:07:19 PM
Victor Smalley




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on July 05, 2008, 07:49:44 PM
The information from Mum and vms have been added, and Freddy's chart is getting bigger.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: vms on July 05, 2008, 08:37:54 PM
FWIW

In the mp3 recorded in April of 2004, Mayra said she came here 27 years ago, is a single mother, and that she has one child - fifteen. That would be Victor, IMO. She must be related to Ernesto as she is listed as his friend on his facebook, but I am not so sure she is his mother...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: vms on July 05, 2008, 08:48:18 PM
Cristina Arambatzsis
Message|View Friends
France
Networks: France
Details: Ernesto is in Cristina's extended family.


Also, notice the spelling of the last name for Christina and Claudia.
 
 



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on July 05, 2008, 09:00:17 PM
vms and Mum - do you have the dates and details for the Victor Manuel Arambatzis and Maria T. marriage?  I'm having trouble figuring out where on the chart they belong.  One of them is probably a sibling of Robby.  I also need some help with Tina, Peter, and D., if you have any details.  Can you two also help me with where and when everyone in this clan was born?  This might help us figure out some more answers.  Thanks!



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on July 05, 2008, 09:05:07 PM
FWIW

In the mp3 recorded in April of 2004, Mayra said she came here 27 years ago, is a single mother, and that she has one child - fifteen. That would be Victor, IMO. She must be related to Ernesto as she is listed as his friend on his facebook, but I am not so sure she is his mother...



You could be right!  I was going on the information that you and Mum had identified her as Ernesto's mother.  She could very easily be Robby's sister, daughter of Nicholas and Editha.  What is the information that someone had saying she is Ernesto's mother?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: vms on July 05, 2008, 09:27:17 PM
FWIW

In the mp3 recorded in April of 2004, Mayra said she came here 27 years ago, is a single mother, and that she has one child - fifteen. That would be Victor, IMO. She must be related to Ernesto as she is listed as his friend on his facebook, but I am not so sure she is his mother...



You could be right!  I was going on the information that you and Mum had identified her as Ernesto's mother.  She could very easily be Robby's sister, daughter of Nicholas and Editha.  What is the information that someone had saying she is Ernesto's mother?

I don't know. You'll have to ask Mum. She knows I am not convinced that Mayra is Ernesto's mother.   ::MonkeyHaHa::

********************
Groom Name:
VICTOR MANUEL ARAMBATZIS
   
Bride Name:
MARIA TERESA IRIZARRY  Birth Date:

Marriage Date:
SEP-27-1983  


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on July 05, 2008, 09:51:43 PM
vms - I changed the configuration so that Myra M. and Victor Manuel are now siblings of Robby.  This actually makes more sense because Myra says in the article that she only has one child which would be Victor.  She would now be Ernesto's aunt.  It also makes more sense because Myra's son could be named Victor for her brother, Victor.  See if this configuration better matches all of the information that we have.  Ernesto's mother is still unknown.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: vms on July 05, 2008, 10:06:04 PM
SS,

I don't know if this helps at all, other than connecting the Tennessee Arambatzis' to the Miami family. Mum is keeping all these records straight.
I am 
::MonkeyConfused::



Name of Deceased: Dorris Wayne Clinard
Age at Death: 57 
Birth Date: abt 1950
Death Date: 27 Jul 2007
Newspaper Title: Leaf-Chronicle, The 
Newspaper Location: Clarksville, TN, Us
Obituary Publication Date: 29 Jul 2007


Dorris Clinard

Dorris Wayne Clinard, 57, Clarksville, died Friday, July 27, 2007, at his residence.

The funeral will be held at 3 p.m. today at Bethel Cumberland Presbyterian Church with the Rev. Tom Wilkins officiating.

Burial will be in Sango Cemetery. Visitation will be from 1-3 p.m. today at Bethel Cumberland Presbyterian Church.

Sykes Funeral Home is in charge of arrangements.

He was known by his family and friends as a loving Christian husband, father and grandfather.

He graduated from Clarksville High School in 1968. He served in the U.S. National Guard for six years. Mr. Clinard was employed at Level Valley Creamery in LaVergne, Tenn., for 25 years. He was an elder at Bethel Cumberland Presbyterian Church. He was also a Sunday School teacher and choir member.

He was preceded in death by his father, Thomas Clinard. He is survived by his loving Christian wife of 38 years, Connie Clinard; son Chris Clinard and his wife Jemina and a granddaughter, Carson. He is also survived by his mother, Mary Irizarry and her husband Damaso Irizarry; two brothers James Clinard (Vicki) and Gordon Clinard (LaDonna); five step-sisters: Maria Arambatzis, Carmen (Randy) Grissom, Elisa (Scott) Graham, Sylvia Kelly, Elizabeth (Theran) Doll, and several nieces and nephews.

Pallbearers will be James Clinard, Gordon Clinard, Rex Clinard, Matthew Sundstrom, Matthew Wallace, Jonathan Davidson. Honorary pallbearers will be members of the Adult Sunday School Class II.

 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on July 05, 2008, 10:17:30 PM
vms - I am also thinking that Myra isn't Ernesto's mother.  When he was at Bradenton Prep, he listed his hometown as Porlamar and on one of his Facebkk or MySpace pages, he listed his hometown as Caracas.  This is probably where his mother is.  If Myra were his mother, he would have listed his home as Florida, because she was already living in Florida when she married Clarence Smalley in 1987.  I even wonder if Ernesto has actually ever lived with Lilian and Robby.  He doesn't seem to have many people from Aruba on his MySpace and Facebook sites.  Most of his friends seem to be from Florida or Venezuela.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: vms on July 05, 2008, 10:27:32 PM
vms - I am also thinking that Myra isn't Ernesto's mother.  When he was at Bradenton Prep, he listed his hometown as Porlamar and on one of his Facebkk or MySpace pages, he listed his hometown as Caracas.  This is probably where his mother is.  If Myra were his mother, he would have listed his home as Florida, because she was already living in Florida when she married Clarence Smalley in 1987.  I even wonder if Ernesto has actually ever lived with Lilian and Robby.  He doesn't seem to have many people from Aruba on his MySpace and Facebook sites.  Most of his friends seem to be from Florida or Venezuela.

Yeah, the absence of friends from Aruba on his facebook does make me wonder.

I have seen two other references to "playa el agua" and "margarita" indicating he was there when he was young...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on July 06, 2008, 07:59:41 AM
Great work! ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyDance::

Have thought of Mayra as Aunt Mayra, just didn't get any further with it!

Hopefully I copied it all to the ARAMBATZIS thread, except SS's charts.

Ss...could you please post them over there...same format...only visible when logged in...Thanks in Advance!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on July 06, 2008, 08:35:10 AM

From the main thread..

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2989.680

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2989.700


« Reply #699 on: July 05, 2008, 09:39:51 PM »Caps   
 
Good evening Monky's

As I promissed before......here it is .....The DirtyHand in The Natalee Case.

I was betting that they will let the Lawyer go that was in Jail in the case of Mansur and he is out.

ALso Hendrik Croes with all the proef and still they will not convict.

So let look which prosecuter handled the case....Mr DirtyHand of the OM

Who was the Prosecuter that Handle tha Natalee Case.... Mr. DirtyHand.

This is the real deal....one in a while he will stick is neck out in the Publick....never seen alway behind the scene.

This is the writer of the Playdoy (the defender case) for mr Hendrick Croes

This is the man in a special case in a wire transfer in 2004 to a Hong Kong bank where from the Casino of the Holiday inn a sum in 500.000.00 was transfer and till today no one is arrested and till today it did not hit the paper. but someone did pay for it.

thnks body at www.24ora.com for the pic.

CAPS


« Reply #703 on: July 05, 2008, 09:49:28 PM »Caps

Hi Red and Klaasend

I just posed on page 35 some info for your files...This is the DirtyHand


« Reply #704 on: July 05, 2008, 09:50:03 PM »wreck

Frans Duetekom?

« Reply #709 on: July 05, 2008, 09:55:39 PM »klaasend

Caps - is his name Ruiz?

Abogado mr. Ruiz ta para riba denuncia falso        Friday, 04 July 2008 - 13:00  Ayera merdia Fiscal a bisa Hues cu e no ta haya legalmente proba intento di causa maltrato severo y tampoco cu mr. Hendrik Croes realmente a dal e agente di Polis E.V.Maduro cu auto. Esei ta nifica cu a keda un acusacion so esta pone trafico den peliger y bay cu auto riba un persona. Fiscal a exigi castigo condicional y un multa.  E acusacionnan contra mr. Hendrik Croes ta: cu e intension di causa danjo fisico pisa na un persona, a intencionalmente core bay cu su auto riba e persona ey dia 16 di Maart 2008. Click read more pa mas detayes y imagen. - Mr. Croes tambe ta wordo acusa di como chofer di e auto, a sigui core bay despues di a causa un accidente caminda un persona (den e caso aki e agente di Polis, Maduro) a sufri lesion. Tur esaki sin cu por a debidamente determina identificacion di mr. Croes. - Ministerio Publico tambe ta acusa mr. Croes di a comporta su mes di tal manera riba caminda cu el a stroba libertad di trafico y/of pone trafico na peliger.Ministerio Publico ta describi e comportacion ey cu ora cu e agente di Polis, Maduro, tabata regla trafico riba caminda a duna mr. Croes un senjal pa stop pero mr. Croes a core bay riba Maduro y a dal’e.Hues a repasa kico lo a sosode dia 16 di Maart 2008 na e retondo di Paradera, caminda el a mustra cu Maduro a declara cu a duna mr. Hendrik Croes dos senjal pa para pero mr. Croes a sigui core y e mester a bula un banda caminda e lo a lora riba e capa di motor. Hues a mustra cu tin otro testigonan cu ta declara cu loke Maduro a declara no ta asina o en todo caso nan no a mira Maduro lora riba e capa di motor.Hues a mustra tambe cu for di e investigacion di TOD por conclui cu e auto a dal e agente di Polis.Fiscal a mustra cu e caso a haya hopi atencion y e ta aplaudi e tremendo trabou di Landsrecheche cu den un forma hopi rapido a logra haya testigonan pa asina trece claridad den e caso. Fiscal no ta haya legalmente proba intento di maltrato severo cu auto. El a mustra cu tabatin testigonan cu a declara cu nan a mira mr. Croes baha velocidad. Tambe tin dos agente di Polis cu a declara cu e auto tabata core poco poco. Esei ta mustra cu e auto no tabata bay directamente riba Maduro cu intension di causa herida severo.Tampoco Fiscal ta haya proba cu a causa herida severo. E ta conclui cu a base di declaracion di e testigonan, no por conclui cu tabatin un accidente. Pues no por papia di cu mr. Croes a sigui core bay.Fiscal si ta haya proba cu Croes a pone trafico na peliger dor di no sigui instruccionnan cu a wordo duna door di Maduro. Segun Fiscal, tabatin patruya di Polis para riba e retondo cu serena sendi. E no ta kere e declaracion di mr. Croes cu e no a mira Polis. Fiscal ta haya cu Maduro mester a hala un banda pa auto no pasa riba dje. E ta haya cu no por ta asina cu mr. Croes ta sigui core bay.E ta haya cu loke mr. Croes a haci ta algo serio y a exigi 1 siman di prison condicional cu un tempo di prueba di 2 anja y un multa di 750 florin y si no paga esaki e lo mester bay 15 dia sera.Abogado mr. Ruiz a cuestiona e hecho cu a base di denuncia falso, Ministerio Publico a bay detene mr. Croes. E ta haya cu Ministerio Publico a actua robez. Mr. Ruiz no ta haya na su lugar cu mr. Croes mester presenta den Corte pa un caso penal contra su persona y awor Fiscal ta hala dos di e acusacionnan aden. Segun mr. Ruiz, ora cu e persona a dal man riba capa di motor di e auto y despues a habri e porta di e auto, mr. Croes no a pensa cu tabata trata aki di un Polis. Ta pesei el a aumenta velosidad y a core bay. El a sigui bisa cu dokter no a constata nada na e agente Maduro. Pa loke ta trata e acusacion di pone trafico na peliger, mr. Ruiz a remarca cu no ta mr. Croes sino e agente di Polis Maduro a pone trafico den peliger. El a conclui cu ta parce cu Ministerio Publico kier haci tur posibel pa toch castiga mr. Croes. E ta haya cu mester declara mr. Croes liber. Hues a keda di studia e caso y dia 17 di Juli e lo dicta sentencia.

« Reply #710 on: July 05, 2008, 09:58:43 PM »Caps

All what you have is what they wanted you to have and read...

The real man behind all special cases is this man....

No one will ever seen him or remember him....

since he the behavior specialist...

hidden in the OM of Aruba...

Seek yee DirtyHand because he is the week link in all the Natalee case...


« Reply #713 on: July 05, 2008, 10:04:32 PM »klaasend

Am I missing the name Frans Deutekom in this article?  Is his name Deutekom or Ruiz?«

Reply #714 on: July 05, 2008, 10:13:37 PM »Lala’s
   
 CapsI can't find Deutekom mentioned in that article...is it because English is my only language? Help!«

Reply #715 on: July 05, 2008, 10:16:10 PM »Klaasend

I'm thinking this person goes by more than one name. «

Reply #716 on: July 05, 2008, 10:16:53 PM »caesu

wouldn't that be Frans van Deutekom?he is public prosecutor on Aruba.«

Reply #718 on: July 05, 2008, 10:21:49 PM »Caps

Like I said before:

1. he will never put down his name.

2. he will not pose for pictures

3. he is behind the scene.

This was a favor....carefull here..we are stepping onto rice papers....

From Left to Right in the Article.In the Picture we have Frans Deutekom, Police Madura and President of the Police Union and last is Maduro








Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on July 06, 2008, 08:52:27 AM
Continued…

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2989.720

« Reply #720 on: July 05, 2008, 10:24:12 PM »Caps

This is the Hidden one...
Trust me on this...I know since 2004 what was going on....


« Reply #727 on: July 05, 2008, 10:36:52 PM »Caps

100 % sure...Frans Deutekom....the behavior specialist...he will make the most guilty looks like angels...

1000% manipulator of the truth


« Reply #731 on: July 05, 2008, 10:44:12 PM »Rob   
 
Caps, is there any chance this guy is involved in the case of Alex Mathews? or Max DeVries? or any of the other missing people (turistas) on Aruba?


« Reply #733 on: July 05, 2008, 10:52:24 PM »caesu

they report to Mos.
and Mos reports to the PG (Pieterz, formerly Jörg
)and the PG reports to Rudy Croes.
but there shouldn't be interference from high up to the prosecution.
to keep the seperation of powers in place.
but on Aruba this is non-existent.

Rudy Croes can order through the PG an prosecution or stop a prosecution or move a prosecution in a certain direction.
but if he does that. he needs to let the parliament know. which he never does.
but his party, the MEP has the majority anyway in the parliament.
this enables the political prosecution and corruption.
or better said: preventing of prosecution of political allies.

very few Dutchies know that on Aruba the MEP has the absolute majority.
here in the Netherlands there are always coalition government.
so we are used to some checks and balances and oversight even from within the government parties.

Arubans know this. that's why they are so outraged to see Hendrik Croes getting this special treatment.

but Mos keeps saying:
it is not a political prosecution because we are not giving in to the demands from the AVP the prosecute Hendrik Croes (charge him with attempted murder).
Jörg said kind of the same thing while has was PG.
but in his last interview he acknowledged that there are many political influenced prosecutions.
of course the Hendrik Croes-case is a text book example of this.
i think Hendrik Croes, brother or Rudy, former minister of justice, shouldn't have been attorney for the government in the court cases during the state workers strike in the first places. that was asking for trouble.«

Reply #735 on: July 05, 2008, 10:56:13 PM »Caps

I can explain that...in December 2004 discovert in a case dealing the Holliday inn...very in the news.
In 2005 he is the one that handle the Natalee case. all the other's that where in the media where just fronts for the OM

in 2004 he proscuted a case where the man was sentance for 2 year, but since the case would show the government week side and incompetent, the case was manipulated and so a innocent man went to jail.

his work is to protect the system at all cost.

Puales and Vonking knows this man very well and are buddies and so are Teresa and Marian.











Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on July 06, 2008, 09:22:06 AM
« Reply #742 on: July 05, 2008, 11:24:10 PM »Carpe   
 
he judge understood the request of the lawyers. He confirmed that the relevant minutes in november 2004 was completed, but only last week filed with the Registrar, a few days before the zittingsdatum. "It is a recurring problem that records verbal arrive too late. Sin, because that means unnecessary waste of time for all concerned and it is a waste of time and space for today in the courtroom was reserved. This time, we can use for another case. "Van den Noort honoured the request for postponement and said the cocaïnezaak two months will persist. "Are we then in time a new call?" Asked lawyer Lejuez. Public Prosecutor Frans van Deutekom promised within a week a new date to publish. The seven suspects in this case, five men and two women, are suspected to them in the period from 1 september 2003 and July 19, 2004 in association were in possession of cocaine and hemp and that they have imported, transported and sold.

http://tinyurl.com/6cnq7o


« Reply #743 on: July 05, 2008, 11:26:16 PM »Carpe   
 
The above came from a page off of http://www.korps-politie-suriname.com  originally.


« Reply #744 on: July 05, 2008, 11:29:45 PM »Carpe   
 
He is also looking to get in touch with old school chums!

http://tinyurl.com/5bsqws


« Reply #746 on: July 05, 2008, 11:36:50 PM »TM   
 
 Here are some links I had saved re: Deutekom

Some may have already been posted!   
Sorry about the length of some of them, I don't know how to do the tinyurl thingies.. 

http://www.justitie.nl/images/voorkoming%20van%20folteringen%20of%20bestraffingen%20CPT%20van%20het%20vierde%20reguliere%20bezoek%20Koninkrijk.doc_9530_tcm34-100232.pdf 

http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:3ktwo68NGLsJ:www.ejcl.org/64/art64-27.html+deutekom+frans+public+prosecutor&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=5&gl=us&client=firefox-a 

http://www.korps-politie-suriname.com/nieuws/nieuwsbronnen%20internationaal/archief%20nieuwsbronnen%20internationaal/2005/2005-01-nieuwsbronnen-internationaal/2005-01-nieuwsbronnen-internationaal.htm

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=nl&u=http://www.korps-politie-suriname.com/nieuws/nieuwsbronnen%2520internationaal/archief%2520nieuwsbronnen%2520internationaal/2005/2005-01-nieuwsbronnen-internationaal/2005-01-nieuwsbronnen-internationaal.htm&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=5&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3D%2522Frans%2Bvan%2BDeutekom%2522%26hl%3Den%26ie%3DUTF-8

http://www.minbuza.nl/en/news/speeches_and_articles,2007/05/Introductory-Statement.html «

Reply #748 on: July 05, 2008, 11:38:23 PM »always1
   
 CAPS does that mean he was there when the boys were let go and does that mean it is written in stone (so to speak) can the charges be levied against them or not???«

Reply #749 on: July 05, 2008, 11:40:49 PM »Carpe
    
 dialuna 11 Juni, 2007 solo di pueblo reference

Mr. Frans van Deutekom (Officier van Justitie) 7.00 – 8.30 p.m

http://tinyurl.com/5t98mp«

Reply #750 on: July 05, 2008, 11:44:21 PM »always1

    
 And I wonder, does that mean he knows where Natalee is now????«


Reply #751 on: July 05, 2008, 11:46:22 PM »Carpe
   
 Some type of school alumni association.Frans

http://tinyurl.com/5n8yxt«

Reply #752 on: July 05, 2008, 11:53:09 PM »SS

Hi always1 - from what we were told, DTKM knows all and decides all.«

Reply #753 on: July 05, 2008, 11:56:08 PM »Carpe

Some other type of school assoc. with an email channel.

http://tinyurl.com/66h3yy«

Reply #754 on: July 05, 2008, 11:57:16 PM »always1

   
 Thanks SS, but does that mean if he makes the final descision, can Joran and the others be brought back in or not????«

Reply #755 on: July 05, 2008, 11:59:25 PM »Helen Back

Thanks CAPS!  Good to see you here.  First thing I thought of when Caesu brought the news of Hendrik Croes case.........wonder if this was fixed by the Super Dirty Hand?  How else could an outcome like this happen?

These people are just blatant with their corruption and favoritism.....unbelievable.«

Reply #756 on: Today at 12:00:12 AM »Caps

Yes, He is the weakest link...since he thinks he was not involved, but he was there....I can say for sure 100%...he was there that night... he is the one that will call the shots.

like any move there is a script, in the case of Natalee time was essential to write a perfect script.

Compare simple case of Maduro vs Hendrick.... he twisted the stories eventhough there are all proef.

Now to establish the proedf he needed 2 witness to go against Maduro (he took 2 Dutch cops) not arubians cops.

The Technical department investigators report show conclusive that he hit Maduro with the car but he argue that he has witness statement that the casr was slowing down and so he could not hit maduro that hard....LOL

but the Judge follows the TEchnical investigators report and so is this story like a movie that Madura is the one that is lying.

in he case of Natalee the time was needed to cover all corners with simple finding a withness that say that they look like the person he saw bu he is not sure. Now to make things go is way, there should be a fall guy and for how long. Well the rotten apple from holland did his home work and manipulated the system to protect someone in the same line of work, The Government, and the system at all Cost.

« Reply #757 on: Today at 12:02:53 AM »klaasend


So how do we get to the truth? «

Reply #758 on: Today at 12:05:31 AM »Carpe
   
 Frans
Donderdag 13 maart 2008

ochtend     middag   

MCB NEDERLAND

http://tinyurl.com/6y5hs9   
 





Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on July 06, 2008, 09:24:05 AM
Thanks Mum!  You do that so well.  Look how neat and tidy everything is.  Wow!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on July 06, 2008, 09:30:20 AM
CAPS,

If 'DirtyHand' is Deutekom, is there another dirtyhand? Could that be HANs Moss?  Codetalkers wrote upper and lower case DirtyHand/dirtyhand.

Are the names the codetalkers use actually part of their real names? As in the Arawak KING could be Ben vocKING?

Then who would be the Lordship?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on July 06, 2008, 09:39:28 AM
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2989.760


« Reply #760 on: Today at 12:12:18 AM »SS

I don't know.  I'm sure it would be possible if enough new evidence were to be presented.  We can only hope so.  DTKM is the one who supposedly knows all of the details of what went on and he's the one who fixed the coverup.  We were told that he is very powerful and everyone is afraid of him.  He calls all of the shots.


« Reply #762 on: Today at 12:17:19 AM »Destiny


Quote from email from Aruba last week...Destiny

Hi xxxxxxx;

In Joran's book he write about Freddy, who he is and who are the parents. But I don't have the book anymore because I have lent somebody the book and he doesn't return it to me yet.

THe man Deutekom is a important person in the justice of Aruba (a fiscal) but I don't know if we have picture of him. If I find one I will send it to you. I keep looking at other names. I let you know.

 

Bye


« Reply #764 on: Today at 12:19:30 AM »Helen   
 
So Julia is tangled up with Deutekom?


« Reply #766 on: Today at 12:27:05 AM »Carpe


It is the Gov't and the System he wanted to protect AT ALL COST, right?

Well, then we need to make it AT ALL COST.

We should keep blasting, and blasting, and blasting, and blasting...

Hopefully, Peter R. De Vries will keep blasting, and blasting, and blasting...

until they can't take it one more day. AT ALL COST

Brute force is the only thing these people understand.

We need to help them with that. Whatever it takes!



« Reply #768 on: Today at 12:28:54 AM »klaasend   
 
Capslock - Let me ask your personal opinion.  Could Karen Janssen and Jan van der Straten have wanted to do the RIGHT thing but could they have been stopped by Deutekom?  Were their hands tied by Deutekom?


« Reply #770 on: Today at 12:30:31 AM »caesu


this should show for everyone how corrupt this OM actually is.

OM asked 1 week sentence for Croes.
OM asked 4 months for Maduro AND 160 hours community service.

both conditional, so they won't have to serve time if they don't make another offense.for Croes 2 years probation, for Maduro 3.

every Aruban can now fear for his live.
the Croes brothers can go on rampage through the island.
and anyone who files a complaint doesn't get justice but gets a prison term requested for them by the OM.

if Maduro has to go to prison i doubt the police force and the other Arubans are going accept that without protest.

but then if Maduro won't get a prison term Croes will file a lawsuit against him.

you do want to read the translation of this article tomorrow:

http://www.amigoe.com/artman/publish/artikel_44138.php

this was the reaction by Croes, published already yesterday:

http://www.amigoe.com/artman/publish/artikel_44111.php (in english)



« Reply #773 on: Today at 12:42:06 AM »Destiny

Klaas...I'm thinking along the same lines with you....BTW can you, or anyone else tell me how to pronounce his name...Deutekom...correctly?   TIA..

Destiny...phonetically would work just fine...















Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on July 06, 2008, 09:54:21 AM
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2989.780

« Reply #785 on: Today at 12:57:24 AM »Caps

KAren and van der Straten wanted the case to come out, but Deutekom had them already under his control....in the OM notting get done without the aproval of duetekom...He is the one that tells Mariam what to say and when to say it.

and then there is Rudy Croes which is the minister of Justice, has the title but no power...he is like Hans Mos. The power is in Hendrick Croes who is the brother of Betico Croes which is the uncle of Rudy Croes.

Hendrick Croes is the back-office (where things are beeing run from) but with no title. In the last election, Rudy croes could not be Minister of Justice and so they made a deal where he will be the front (Puppy say all guy) and Hendrick the real Minster Of Justice. in the eyes of the true MEPS party supportes, they believe that Rudy is running the show but he is not).

Teresa was placed there by Hendrick Croes and so was Marian. both hands where tied down since this guy Duetekom was send protect the blunders that Rudy Croes was commiting... This guy hands are in all the mayor organisation including the UN.

For the case in 2004 we Read what he presented to the court and it was all a fabrication based on what he knows about you.
e.g. if you are an expert in some thing, he will use that knowlage to potraay that since you know about something, that means that the possibility is that you have done it. (So how can you proed that you can not have done it).

In the case of Natalee, Joran boost but he did not do it, but since he boost, he wanted the game to continue and so they stoped him right in there. He will not boost any more.

If I had to call some one to question, I will start with Duetekom and Rudy Croes and the prime Minster and Hendrick Croes.
Steve Garido Croes Jr.


http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2989.800


« Reply #806 on: Today at 03:04:32 AM »wreck   
 
Frans Deutekom = Dirty Hand .............. so what do we do now??? 


« Reply #807 on: Today at 04:01:30 AM »TM

Exposing him has to be a start....we've got to keep on trying to peel back the layers!


« Reply #810 on: Today at 07:46:17 AM »Mrskub   
 
I found an interesting "Secret" document (or so it's labeled) from the CPT regarding a visit to Aruba jail/prison system in June 2007. I certainly wouldn't want to be held in these facilities!

http://www.justitie.nl/images/voorkoming%20van%20folteringen%20of%20bestraffingen%20CPT%20van%20het%20vierde%20reguliere%20bezoek%20Koninkrijk.doc_9530_tcm34-100232.pdf


Reply #813 on: Today at 08:06:52 AM »Mum

Still catching up, but TM, Lala's, vms, or another Tangoer, but I thought that Caps told us that Deutekom was German. Can anyone recall, as it may affect how his name is pronounced.


« Reply #814 on: Today at 08:12:01 AM »   
 
Help from some of our Dutch posters, please!

Caps posted that Rudy and Hendrick are not brothers. He has posted this twice before in Shango and I have checked on it and found articles referencing them as brothers....LOL...He didn't answer my questions on it either!

Can we please find out for sure, one way or the other?


« Reply #815 on: Today at 08:50:37 AM »Lala’s

I know Caps is not here right now, but hopefully he will drop in and explain this for me.  I am going to assume that Caps meant boast instead of boost.  Are you saying that Joran did not do anything to Natalee? That his bragging is what got him into trouble and complicated things so much that we are where we are now?  I must go back into the Shango archives and find where Caps first mentioned Deutekom. We have been waiting for this info for a while now.  Caps has had a bead on this guy for some time.  I will try to find it an post it in a few.  I guess I need to move it to Shango too for future reference.



« Reply #820 on: Today at 09:41:41 AM »Karma

I have questions.
How long has Duetekom been in office and how long are they(whatever his title is)supposed to be in office?
Does anyone know if Beth and Dave ever met Duetekom or ever had dealings with him?



I couldn't paste the pic if it can be bought over...and I think there was a post or two of Carpe's I couldn't copy...TIA on the pic!












Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Rob on July 06, 2008, 10:29:05 AM
I have a question.

How does Shango know Deutekom?

Shango = Florida.

Deutekom = backroom on Aruba and hidden.

How did Shango find out it was Deutekom? This seems like a very very tricky area. How does this relationship work?

anyone have any ideas?

++++++++++

Another thought - Deutekom is a behavioral specialist. Van Der Straaten was wire tapped speaking to Paulus. Did Van Der Straaten get the "mental institution" idea (in Joran's book) from Deutekom?

Seems to me you need an expert like Deutekom to make a decision like that. So, did Deutekom actually meet with Joran and observe his behavior? How could someone suggest that Joran be placed in a mental institution without observation? That seems like a violation of ethics.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on July 06, 2008, 10:47:37 AM
I have a question.

How does Shango know Deutekom?

Shango = Florida.

Deutekom = backroom on Aruba and hidden.

How did Shango find out it was Deutekom? This seems like a very very tricky area. How does this relationship work?


anyone have any ideas?

++++++++++

Another thought - Deutekom is a behavioral specialist. Van Der Straaten was wire tapped speaking to Paulus. Did Van Der Straaten get the "mental institution" idea (in Joran's book) from Deutekom?

Seems to me you need an expert like Deutekom to make a decision like that. So, did Deutekom actually meet with Joran and observe his behavior? How could someone suggest that Joran be placed in a mental institution without observation? That seems like a violation of ethics.


Great question Rob...one I don't know the answer to...LOL, but definately one to think about...Thanks...


Can anyone can please shed some light on whether Betico, Rudy and Hendrick are really brothers it would be greatly appreciated.

Caps and, IIRC Private Eye, have posted that Rudy is a nephew. As I posted earlier Caps has posted this 3 times at least now, and would like to get to the bottom of it once and for all.

All I have found are posts and blog references, though did find Rudy’s date of birth once, and omitted to save it!

This could make a difference in how we look at Steve Croes, and maybe our friend Simian…LOL…

Thanks in Advance…


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: vms on July 06, 2008, 11:28:19 AM
FRANK CROES ELECTRO/AUTO PARTS & HARDWARE
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a398/vms58/RudyCroes.jpg)
http://www.arubachamber.com/registry/registry_result.afp?KeyValue=19631


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: beachwego on July 06, 2008, 11:29:14 AM
According to what Caps posted on page 40 of NH thread....he is saying Hendricks & Betico are brothers...and Rudy is nephew of Betico


Quote from: CapsLockWizard on Today at 11:57:24 AM
Quote from: klaasend on Today at 11:28:54 AM
Capslock - Let me ask your personal opinion.  Could Karen Janssen and Jan van der Straten have wanted to do the RIGHT thing but could they have been stopped by Deutekom?  Were their hands tied by Deutekom?

KAren and van der Straten wanted the case to come out, but Deutekom had them already under his control....in the OM notting get done without the aproval of duetekom...He is the one that tells Mariam what to say and when to say it.

and then there is Rudy Croes which is the minister of Justice, has the title but no power...he is like Hans Mos. The power is in Hendrick Croes who is the brother of Betico Croes which is the uncle of Rudy Croes.

Hendrick Croes is the back-office (where things are beeing run from) but with no title. In the last election, Rudy croes could not be Minister of Justice and so they made a deal where he will be the front (Puppy say all guy) and Hendrick the real Minster Of Justice. in the eyes of the true MEPS party supportes, they believe that Rudy is running the show but he is not).

Teresa was placed there by Hendrick Croes and so was Marian. both hands where tied down since this guy Duetekom was send protect the blunders that Rudy Croes was commiting... This guy hands are in all the mayor organisation including the UN.

For the case in 2004 we Read what he presented to the court and it was all a fabrication based on what he knows about you.
e.g. if you are an expert in some thing, he will use that knowlage to potraay that since you know about something, that means that the possibility is that you have done it. (So how can you proed that you can not have done it).

In the case of Natalee, Joran boost but he did not do it, but since he boost, he wanted the game to continue and so they stoped him right in there. He will not boost any more.

If I had to call some one to question, I will start with Duetekom and Rudy Croes and the prime Minster and Hendrick Croes.
Steve Garido Croes Jr.






Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on July 06, 2008, 11:37:36 AM
Thanks…vms and beachwego...This is why I thought they were brothers…the dates of birth…there would have to be a much older brother for Rudy to be Betico’s nephew, I think!!!

Betico Croes

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Jump to: navigation, search

Gilberto François "Betico" Croes (b. 1938 d. 1986) was an Aruban political activist who was a proponent of Aruba's separation from the rest of the Netherlands Antilles. This eventually occurred, but Croes lapsed into a coma after an accident on 31 December 1985 (the night of status aparte) and was never conscious to see his accomplishment. He's called the father of the Aruban nation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betico_Croes



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: texasmom on July 06, 2008, 01:03:32 PM
I have a question.

How does Shango know Deutekom?

Shango = Florida.

Deutekom = backroom on Aruba and hidden.

How did Shango find out it was Deutekom? This seems like a very very tricky area. How does this relationship work?

anyone have any ideas?

++++++++++

Another thought - Deutekom is a behavioral specialist. Van Der Straaten was wire tapped speaking to Paulus. Did Van Der Straaten get the "mental institution" idea (in Joran's book) from Deutekom?
Seems to me you need an expert like Deutekom to make a decision like that. So, did Deutekom actually meet with Joran and observe his behavior? How could someone suggest that Joran be placed in a mental institution without observation? That seems like a violation of ethics.

I have wondered the same thing!   ::MonkeyWink::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on July 06, 2008, 01:40:33 PM
I have a question.

How does Shango know Deutekom?

Shango = Florida.

Deutekom = backroom on Aruba and hidden.

How did Shango find out it was Deutekom? This seems like a very very tricky area. How does this relationship work?

anyone have any ideas?

++++++++++

Another thought - Deutekom is a behavioral specialist. Van Der Straaten was wire tapped speaking to Paulus. Did Van Der Straaten get the "mental institution" idea (in Joran's book) from Deutekom?

Seems to me you need an expert like Deutekom to make a decision like that. So, did Deutekom actually meet with Joran and observe his behavior? How could someone suggest that Joran be placed in a mental institution without observation? That seems like a violation of ethics.

I think to answer your question would be to assume someone was feeding Shango this information at the time and they were on Aruba. I have long thought that the real Shango was not the person posting the info...but that is just my opinion for the moment...subject to change at a moments notice.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on July 06, 2008, 02:22:35 PM
Frans Duetekom


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on July 06, 2008, 02:56:57 PM
Caps
When you are here the next time will you please check out the Zedans in Aruba for me.  Still trying to fit Freddy in there since we think that is his real last name, but I know you said it wasn't.  I am wondering why he chose that last name instead of Abrambatzis. Could he be trying to distance himself from his half brother Ernesto who lives in Miami?  Or do you think Ernesto told Freddy to stop using the family name because he was into something he shouldn't be?  Could it have been a diversion?  Why would Simian want to blame Freddy?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on July 06, 2008, 05:50:42 PM
Continued..

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2989.840

« Reply #841 on: Today at 10:50:10 AM »Lala’s   
 
I see some of you are beginning to understand why I asked the question. AG has told me they were brothers.  (Thanks Klaas) but Caps claims they are not.  It can only be one way or the other.  I am thinking we just have it confused between all of us in some way.  Many of us have spent hours trying to determine for certain.  It goes back to Steve Croes and his role in all this.  Of course, it also involves that 5th suspect of Simian's but I will try not to go there right now.  Thanks for everyone's help.  It would be interesting to know how our illustrious Deutekom helped Steve waltz away as Simian would say. I am going to post the first time  I think Caps mentioned Deutekom to us in Shango for everyone's curiosity. (Don't hold me to that being the first, but I am pretty sure it was around this time.)

« Reply #842 on: Today at 10:51:00 AM »Lala’s   

 CapsLockWizard   
Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #2«
Reply #171 on: March 26, 2008, 12:30:32 PM »   
Quote from: MumInOhio on March 26, 2008, 07:06:13 AM

Lala's...NO Judge Williams on Kermit's list of Judges that I can see! Did I miss it?

« Reply #3049 on: March 03, 2008, 11:47:30 PM »
 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------From Kermit's post in the other thread:
"The justices on the Aruban bench:
mw. mr. E. Angela august 1st 2000
mw. mr. P. de Bruin august 1st 2000
mr. J.S. Kuiperdalxmr. P.A.H. Lemaire august 1st 2002
mr. C. Slothouber august 1st 2001
## mr. F.J.F. Gerard march 1st 2005
## mr. H.E. de Boer august 1st 2005
## mr. J.A. van Voorthuizen august 1st 2005
The justices on the Curacao bench
mw. mr. M.K. Asscheman-Versluis (since august 1st 1999)
mr. J. de Boer august 1st 1998
@ mr. R.A. Th. M. Dekkers after 2004 because at that time he was judge in The Haguexmr. W. Foppen (since august 1st 1999)
mr. L. van Gijn august 1st 2000
@ mr. L. Groefsema after 2004 because mr. L. Groefsema was a judge in Assen in 2004
@ mw. mr. L.C. Hoefdraad after 2004 because mw. mr. L.C. Hoefdraad at that time was a judge in the Hague
@ mr. S.M. Lieshout after 2004 because mr. S.M. Lieshout was a judge in Utrechtxmr. B.M. Mezas
@ mr. R.F.B. van Zutphen after 2004 because mr. R.F.B. van Zutphen was a judge in Amsterdam
mr. M.W. Zandbergen since may 1st 2000
@ mr. J.Th. Wit after 2004 because in 2004 he was DA in Dordrecht
mr. P. Wagemakers august 1st 2000
@ mr. R.W.J. van Veen after 2004 because in 2004 he was still a judge in Breda
mw. mr. M.M.M. Tillema september 1st 2000
@ mr. J.R. Sijmonsma after 2004
mw. mr. E.A. Saleh since august 1st 1999
mr. G.E.M. Polkamp november 1st 2000
@ mw. mr. M.H.H.A. Moes 2004 or later because in 2004 she was a judge in Almelo
mr. M.L.A. Angela since march 1st 2000
mr. A.N.G.N.E. Mijnssen since 1996, from november 2000 onwards part-time judge
mr. F.P. Wiel re-appointed for 3 more years on august 1st 1999
@ mr. H.A.C. Smid (since march 1st 2005)x## mr. J.M.P. Drijkoningen (since august 1st 2005)
## mw. mr. A.M.P. Geelhoed (since august 1st 2005)
## mr. K.J. Haarhuis (since august 1st 2005)
## mw. mr. L. de Kerpel-van de Poel (since august 1st 2005)
## mw. mr. A.S. Gratama (since august 1st 2005)
## mr. H.L. Wattel (since september 1st 2005)
Mr. P. W. van Schendel re-appointed for 3 more years on august 1st 2005
## mr. E.M. van der Bunt february 1st 2005
## mr. dr. J.P. de Haan february 1st 2005
@ mr. J.H. Bosch august 1st 2004
@ mr. E.P. van Unen august 1st 2004
@ mr. drs. G.C.C. Lewin august 1st 2004
@ mr W.J. Noordhuizen august 1st 2004
@ mr J.Th. Drop september 1st 2004

From the 45 justices working for the Court of Aruba and the Antilles:

11 started working there after Paul van der Sloot became a suspect

15 started working there much later than Paul van der Sloot

Only 19 might be friends of Paul van der Sloot and of them 14 were Curacao justices."
=============

46 sacrifices.

The judges serve three year contracts. Three years from 2005 would be now. A new(?) group of judges rotated in(unless they may serve more than once).
The 47th would break the cycle of conspiracy.
The conspiracy will then fall.

Judges....
The crooks, on Aruba or even in the United States, cannot flourish without corrupt lawyers and judges.

Look at all those businesses that people own there. They are washing machines.xMaybe PVDS is a lawyer for the dark side.
While I do not think drug trafficking is the answer that we seek, it is a piece of the puzzle. There are many pieces. All important.
We must shine a light on those that rule the night.
Why do the cowboys turn their heads? Me thinks the ABC's get their clothes washed there too. Easier than on the Hill.
Finx


I think from the list above we forgot one of those S.O.B's Mr. F.A.P.M van Duetekom.
Check what info you have on this man... good friend of Paules.. He is a Prosecuter. But he is not on the list.

CAPS

« Reply #844 on: Today at 10:54:10 AM »Lala’s   

 Oops!  I forgot the link.   

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2733.160

« Reply #848 on: Today at 10:57:46 AM »Lala’s   

 vms
Scared Monkeyx
     Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #2

« Reply #176 on: March 26, 2008, 01:23:34 PM »

Report to the authorities of the Kingdom of the Netherlands on the visits carried out to the Kingdom in Europe, Aruba, and the Netherlands Antilles by the European Committee for the Prevention of Torture and Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment (CPT) in June 2007
This report was made public by the Netherlands Government on 30 January 2008

.Strasbourg, 5 February 2008

<snipped>
LIST OF THE AUTHORITIES AND OTHER PERSONS
WITH WHOM THE CPT’S DELEGATION HELD CONSULTATIONS
 A.        Aruban authorities
  -           Mr H.R. (Rudy) CROES     Minister of Justice
-           Mr Rolando BERNADINA     Adviser, Minister of Justice
-           Mr Peter de WITTE     Chief of Police
-           Mr Lambertus KROZENDIJK     Police Commissioner
-           Ms Jeannette RICHARDSON-BAARS     Police Inspector
-           Ms Golda CANDELARIA     Police Inspector, Head of the Internal Investigation Bureau
-           Mr Emilio GEERMAN     Interim Director, Aruba Correctional Institute
-           Mr Laurence PASKEL     Director of Government Security (Cuerpo Especial Arubano)
-           Mr Roy LACLÉ     Acting Head of Section, Border Guard Authority (Warda Nos Costa (IASA))
-           Ms Angélique PETERSON     Adviser, Department of Foreign Affairs, CPT liaison officer
-           Mr Ezzard CILIÉ     Head of the PAAZ (Psychiatric ward of the General Hospital)
-           Mr Hendrikus van GALEN     Psychiatristx-           Mr Nico JÖRG     Solicitor General
-           Mr Hans MOS     Chief Public Prosecutor
-           Mr Frans van DEUTEKOM     Public Prosecutor
-           Mr Marcel MADURO     Director of the Public Service Investigation Agency (Landsrecherche)
-           Mr Ferdinand GERARD    Judge, Chairman of the Prison Supervisory Board
  B.        Persons active in the CPT’s fields of interest
 -           Mr Chris LEJUEZ     Lawyer
-           Ms Eline LOTTER-HOMAN     Lawyer
-           Mr Rudi OOMEN     Lawyer

http://www.cpt.coe.int/documents/nld/2008-02-inf-eng.htm

« Reply #854 on: Today at 11:16:05 AM »Lala’s   


 Caps
Please drop in and tell us more about Deutekom.  You know I have tons of questions...does he have influence over the judges also?  As in Judge Witt?  Who are his friends?  Why is he so behind the scenes?  I have wanted to know forever about this particular Shango post concerning Dirty Hand.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:58 pm

Arawaks want to make cowboys happy
Babylonians want to maintain integrity of Great House
Gods of the cowboys know there was a game in the great house,
and so DirtyHand was discovered
But the sacrifice will be offered before dirty hand sings
He will return to babylon, broken but anonymous












Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on July 06, 2008, 05:52:25 PM
CAPS,

If 'DirtyHand' is Deutekom, is there another dirtyhand? Could that be HANs Moss?  Codetalkers wrote upper and lower case DirtyHand/dirtyhand.

Are the names the codetalkers use actually part of their real names? As in the Arawak KING could be Ben vocKING?

Then who would be the Lordship?

Sorry Poochy…buried you!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on July 06, 2008, 05:53:54 PM
Caps
When you are here the next time will you please check out the Zedans in Aruba for me.  Still trying to fit Freddy in there since we think that is his real last name, but I know you said it wasn't.  I am wondering why he chose that last name instead of Abrambatzis. Could he be trying to distance himself from his half brother Ernesto who lives in Miami?  Or do you think Ernesto told Freddy to stop using the family name because he was into something he shouldn't be?  Could it have been a diversion?  Why would Simian want to blame Freddy?

Sorry Lala's...buried you too!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: vms on July 07, 2008, 01:32:52 AM
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a398/vms58/Sasha-myspacepic.jpg)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: hotping on July 07, 2008, 01:36:16 AM
VMS
I believe Freddy looks like Mayra...What's Your thoughts?  I which someone would put their pics side by side.......TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on July 07, 2008, 07:25:20 AM
CAPS,

If 'DirtyHand' is Deutekom, is there another dirtyhand? Could that be HANs Moss?  Codetalkers wrote upper and lower case DirtyHand/dirtyhand.

Are the names the codetalkers use actually part of their real names? As in the Arawak KING could be Ben vocKING?

Then who would be the Lordship?


Sorry Poochy…buried you!


Thanks!  ::MonkeyCool::

http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/67407

A Piece of the Puzzle?
by Dale Netherton

July 06, 2008
 After writing and thinking about the Natalee Holloway disappearance there has been one thing that has bothered me about the progress of the investigation and the approach. The theory of why Natalee disappeared and how I have outlined in other articles on American Chronicle over time but there is one facet of the theory that was a real puzzle. To explain that part of the investigation required another look at what motive would prevent people from pursuing a person instead of a body. This is what I have come up with.

Suppose after Natalee disappeared, her mother was approached and told , "If you want to ever see your daughter alive again , do not operate under the assumption she is alive." They knew a search for a body would turn up nothing. You notice that most mothers find it very difficult to give up on the life they gave birth to. Only two things could account for that to be accepted fairly soon in the investigation. First of all it could be that Beth just couldn´t stand the thought of Natalee not at peace in some form. On the other hand if she were told that any encouragement of looking for Natalee as a captive would result in Natalee´s death that could be motivation also.

When you look at the criminal mind and the threats that they live by such a scenario is not out of the realm of possibilities. Recognizing that if Natalee was alive and captive and found that the crooks could be caught and their whole lucrative operation threatened or destroyed and the government of Aruba implicated, a simple threat is not something they would be above doing. This would also explain the reluctance of many of the press to pursue the search for a live person. Beth could have told Greta for instance that she would only be interviewed with the premise that Natalee was dead. Greta may have inquired and simply have been told that these are the conditions of an interview take it or leave it. Or she may have divulged the reason with the understanding that it would not be made public. The intriguing facet of this scenario is that no matter what Beth says to negate or admit the theory we cannot be sure there is nothing to it. For if it is true that she received a threat then making it public would be a betrayal to the crooks and Natalee could be killed. On the other hand if she denies there is anything to this approach, that too is playing into the crooks´ hands. She is avoiding the possibility that they will kill Natalee because she is still operating under the crooks´ threat to Natalees´s life.

This of course brings up another concern. What if a search for Natalee alive is rejuvenated by the acceptance of this theory by those investigating her disappearance. Would not that endanger Natalee´s life? This was bothering at first. But then I realized that if I were in a captive position would I not want some chance of discovery and escape and/or release? Knowing that once someone in the underworld is under suspicion and may be discovered, like rats they scurry and will squeal to save their skin. A promise of leniency for coming forward and leading to the recovery of Natalee safe and sound might sink into some thumbnail brain that doesn´t want to go to prison or under the needle. That may be the impetus for a person involved in Natalee´s disappearance to come forward and salvage their life. In every mob there´s a person who will rat the others out instead of going down with the ship. This is the first chance for that person to see the writing on the wall and get their reprieve before someone else beats them to the punch. There is too much silence and nonsense for there not to be someone in the know about his case.

This part of the puzzle would explain why Joran is willing to talk of a dead Natalee although he gives different stories of how she died. The same is true of the Aruba "authorities" and their searches and theories that added up to nothing. It would explain how Joran was able to gamble underage in a public casino without any fear the authorities would crack down. Review the article " An Evaded Natalee Holloway Theory" under my other articles and see if it doesn´t fit all the facets outlined.  
The burden is now on those who know that in order for Natalee to be found alive will require an understanding of how solutions are derived and that if a crime has a part that doesn´t make sense it cannot be ignored if a solution is to be found. The burden is not on Beth for if the theory is true she is helpless to either support or deny it. So it falls on those who see the best theory is the one that explains the situation with the least amount of assumptions that are plausible. There are too many implausible "explanations" associated with a dead Natalee theory. That three teenage boys could kill a girl with not a trace of evidence of a body is a pretty far stretch to begin with. All the subsequent events and investigations and searches that added up to nothing only requires some alternative approach. One has not emerged that has had all the components explained until now. Of course the theory may be proven wrong but at this point unless a body washes up on the beach ( which it won´t ) the search for Natalee should go on knowing that the possibility of her being alive is higher than being dead. A motive for her death cannot be established for three teenage boys. Rape is not very plausible and the focus of looking for a body that there was no fear of finding says that something far more sinister is afoot.

All the inconsistencies and evasions by the authorities of Aruba needs to be cataloged and presented to the public. The pressure belongs on their backs and from that pressure will come the voice that will see that the jig is up and they could very will be implicated for having what they perceive to be a minor part of this crime. The alternative is to sit still and simply accept what cannot be explained. This is not how most Americans treat their fellow citizens. American soldiers look after their own and so should al those Americans that see that an injustice is being perpetuated by what appears to be a coverup by the authorities of Aruba. With Justice for All, doesn´t exclude a girl from Alabama.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: vms on July 07, 2008, 07:54:59 AM
VMS
I believe Freddy looks like Mayra...What's Your thoughts?  I which someone would put their pics side by side.......TIA

In your MBOX.  :lol:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Blonde on July 07, 2008, 08:14:32 AM
SS...I am hoping some of our posters have long memories and can recall if the Arambatzis was new when Freddy was arrested or not.

Otherwise I have a lot of reading to do... ::MonkeyHaHa::

According to his lawyer, 21-year-old Freddy Arambatzis was suspected of taking photographs of and having physical contact with an underage girl, an incident which allegedly occurred before the Holloway disappearance and in which Arambatzis's friends Van der Sloot and the Kalpoe brothers were supposedly involved. Van der Sloot's mother, Anita van der Sloot, stated, "It's a desperate attempt to get the boys to talk. But there is nothing to talk about".[64] While no public explanation was then made for the Kalpoe rearrests, Dompig later said that it was an unsuccessful attempt to pressure the Kalpoe brothers into confessing.[27]




From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on July 07, 2008, 08:50:42 AM
SS...I am hoping some of our posters have long memories and can recall if the Arambatzis was new when Freddy was arrested or not.

Otherwise I have a lot of reading to do... ::MonkeyHaHa::

According to his lawyer, 21-year-old Freddy Arambatzis was suspected of taking photographs of and having physical contact with an underage girl, an incident which allegedly occurred before the Holloway disappearance and in which Arambatzis's friends Van der Sloot and the Kalpoe brothers were supposedly involved. Van der Sloot's mother, Anita van der Sloot, stated, "It's a desperate attempt to get the boys to talk. But there is nothing to talk about".[64] While no public explanation was then made for the Kalpoe rearrests, Dompig later said that it was an unsuccessful attempt to pressure the Kalpoe brothers into confessing.[27]




From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Blonde-Thanks...again...August 25th. to 28th.or thereabouts of 2005...


Caps….Would you mind please checking the latest database for Zedans and Arambatzis.  They appear to be multiplying like rabbits, both on Aruba and in Venezuela…Some are adding the name, Arambatzis, and others are dropping it! … Rodriguez appears to be the common denominator…Surprise…Surprise!

If you could post the latest database, it would be greatly appreciated…Thanks in Advance!



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on July 07, 2008, 09:27:21 AM
I say bring S.Croes back into the mix.

  - He had an inflatable boat docked just outside the HI for the tattoo boat.
  - Tattoo boat immediately went up for sale in 2005.
  - He has an "Uncle Rufo"...!
  - As a DJ, he could have spun the 'poison notes'
  - One of the THREE 'jailed youths' named him in the case
  - For some reason I recall his name tied to the Amy Bradley disappearance
  - AND, the Music Man's song was NOT on the bill.

And since his song was NOT on the bill, nobody paid for him to sing his BS, so we can conclude that all the other 'songs' that were sung by the others WERE on the bill prior to SCroes arrest. They got on the bill in the first 10 days after Natalee went missing.
 
http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/06/18/missing.teen/

ORANJESTA
D, Aruba (CNN) -- Nearly three weeks after Alabama teenager Natalee Holloway disappeared in Aruba, police there questioned a local judge whose son is a suspect in the case, a law enforcement source close to the investigation said.

Authorities talked to Judge Paul Van Der Sloot on Saturday night, the source said. The jurist is the father of 17-year-old Joran Van Der Sloot, one of four people held in the case  -- none of whom have been charged.

The source said the judge was interviewed as a witness.

On Friday, Judge Bob Wit ruled that Paul Van Der Sloot cannot visit his son in jail, but that the boy's mother may. Wit's reasoning wasn't made public. Anita Van Der Sloot visited her son late Friday.

Defense attorneys for Joran Van Der Sloot and two others in custody have said their clients maintain they are innocent.

Also jailed are Deepak Kalpoe, 21, and his brother Satish, 18, and a man identified by a family member as Steve Croes, 26, a disc jockey for a popular party boat, who was arrested Friday.

Police Commissioner Jan Van Der Straten said the arrest came after one of the three jailed youths named a fourth person in the case. Joran Van Der Sloot and the Kalpoe brothers were last seen with Holloway leaving a nightclub about 1:30 a.m. on May 30, police said.

The party boat that employs Croes docks near the Holiday Inn where Holloway was staying.

Croes' uncle Rufo Solognier, a retired police officer, described his nephew as a quiet divorced man with a 2-year-old son. Solognier said he did not know of any connection between Croes and the three others.




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on July 07, 2008, 10:09:58 AM
Poochy...I have questions about Steve's boss and the Tattoo! Just recently we read that it is back in business and that Steve is back on board...a little worse for wear, I might add. Wiggins did have some AHATA ties IIRC, and that in itself make me suspicious.

The Soul Beach after-party on the Saturday night shifted to the Tattoo, and I have wondered about any sort of party on the Sunday night on that boat.

Steve also told reporters in August that he was exonerated, but was questioned again - as a suspect, and apparently his own mother thought he was one as well!  She notified the press concerned he was to be arrested again! 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on July 07, 2008, 10:25:23 AM
Poochy...I have questions about Steve's boss and the Tattoo! Just recently we read that it is back in business and that Steve is back on board...a little worse for wear, I might add. Wiggins did have some AHATA ties IIRC, and that in itself make me suspicious.

The Soul Beach after-party on the Saturday night shifted to the Tattoo, and I have wondered about any sort of party on the Sunday night on that boat.

Steve also told reporters in August that he was exonerated, but was questioned again - as a suspect, and apparently his own mother thought he was one as well!  She notified the press concerned he was to be arrested again! 

Mum, that explains all the new Tattoo webpages I am seeing! I wonder who used to own the boat, and who owns it now.

'The DJ was the vessel".

And yes, never forget the SBMFestival going on that night.  I read they were so ticked off with all the boats in the waters just off the beach that didn't pay the SBMF entry fee. I doubt the boats left immediately after the music ended after a few days of partying -they would want to extend it more. I doubt SCroes was sound asleep in his little boat at that time unless he was passed out :)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on July 07, 2008, 11:18:07 AM
Mum,

Here's another point to ponder - do you think Steve and his boat gets involved in these watersport disappearances? Is Steve the 'music' we should find? Is David Stacey Sr the David that got out alive? Is the 'den' the mob?

Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 1:55 am
Find the music. Only David left the den alive.

David Stacey Sr. is the 56 yr old who also stayed at the HI and befriended the 14 yr old Max and his mother also staying at the HI in Aruba. David begged Max's mom to let him go jetskiing with him, and only David got out of the ocean alive. Finding this guy is hard on the internet, but there's a case with a guy from the SAME NAME where he 'squeezed' 2 motorcycles between his rig and another truck. Interesting....wrongful death suit.... But if the same guy, he's from Michigan - Paul Brough land. 

Background -
- A 14 yr old boy Max just lost his father.
- Max and his mom went to Aruba HI to mourn, to relax.
- Along comes fellow American David Stacey Sr., age 56.
- Stranger David is also staying at the HI
- David wants Max to go jet skiing
- David and Max wind up 4 miles from the beach in broken down jet skiis.
- Only David comes back alive on the watersports private boat.
- David gives conflicting stories about MAX's disappearance.
- Arubans do their dog and pony, smoke and mirrors acts with searching, helicoptors, etc.
- The mom and some Arubans give Max a floral funeral send off at sea.
- Now a mom has lost her son too, and goes back QUIETLY to the USA alone.
- Mom doesn't understand why Aruba police, who won't return her calls, and why the case is closed so fast.
- It was said that Max was spotted in Brazil.
- It was also said that this was an insurance fraud.
- To me I don't care. A 56 yr old man at a HI begged a 14 yr old to go on a jet ski.
- And whatever happened David and the boat driver who picked up David knows.

-----------------------
-- There was an older man, construction worker, who also went missing from Aruba.
-- He was last seen at a watersports rental shed.
-- Got into an arguement and was not seen anymore.
-------------------------
---It was stated somewhere that Natalee went to a watersports rental shed to buy drugs.
---Whether she did or did not is not my business. Finding Natalee is my business.

-the wrongful death suit---
 http://cases.justia.com/us-court-of-appeals/F3/115/208/
The current litigation arose out of a tragic accident that occurred at the Breezewood Interchange of the Pennsylvania Turnpike on June 17, 1990. A tractor-trailer owned by Ralph Meyers Trucking, Inc. ("Meyers Trucking") and operated
by David A. Stacey "rear-ended" a motorcycle operated by Brian Kent Adams, on which Elizabeth Naomi Bromwell was a passenger, and then "rear-ended" a second motorcycle operated by John Darrow, Jr. Stacey's truck pushed the two motorcycles into the rear of another tractor-trailer, driven by Pete L. Wurm. The three motorcyclists, Adams, Bromwell, and Darrow, were killed in  the collision and Wurm suffered serious physical and psychological injuries.

Representatives of the estates of the three deceased motorcyclists individually brought actions against Meyers Trucking and Stacey for wrongful death and negligence; Wurm brought an action against Meyers Trucking and Stacey for negligence. These actions were filed in the United  States District Court for the Western District of Pennsylvania and were consolidated into a single case, with jurisdiction premised on diversity grounds pursuant to 28 U.S.C. § 1332. Both Meyers Trucking and Stacey are citizens of Michigan, Wurm is a citizen of Missouri, and the three decedents were citizens of Maryland.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on July 07, 2008, 12:12:40 PM
More Max deVries - geesh, are all these folks connected or something? LOL  ::MonkeyHaHa::

Based on Max's disappearance, I truly believe that Joran played the part of "David Stacey JR". DirtyHand played the part of "David Stacey SR". DirtyHand then hands them over to the Lions.

Do the island casino thugs get "orders" from ruthless drug/arms smuggling 'lions' druglords (his 'lordship) every so often so both sides stay out of each other's hair? Is that the coverup? Casino thugs call in their backup troops from Chicago to make the human trade and then quietly fly back while Aruba police let them shower off all evidence? Arawaks afraid of Lions and DirtyHand, but want all to be known?

(Translated to English from http://forum.fok.nl:) (I thought they stayed at the HI, this poster says LaCabana...)

Duikkie - Tuesday, 1 april 2008 @ 13:16  [PM] [Profiel] [Edit] [PM] [Profile] [Edit] 
quote: quote:
Op dinsdag 1 april 2008 09:12 schreef johan555 het volgende: On Tuesday, 1 april 2008 09:12 wrote johan555 the following:
Another lost person in Aruba. Another person lost in Aruba. spring 2004 Spring 2004

This young man was lost in Aruba in the spring of 2004. The mother still has no clear answer as to what happened to Max.  No death certificate, no police report, and no help from the U.S. or Aruban government. He went out on a jet ski with someone from the hotel that they were at, and never came back. Lost at Sea.
 
*************
Johan555 - Tuesday, 1 april 2008 @ 13:39  [PM] [Profiel] [Edit] [PM] [Profile] [Edit] 
hai hai
 Hier verteld rob iets meer over de verdwijning van MAX Here told rob something more about the disappearance of MAX
Here's what I know and it comes from Max's Mom Yvonne and my own research. 

Prior to the trip to Aruba in 2004, Max's Father George died.This occurred 18 months before the trip. Yvonne had two children with George. Max and Dominique. These are Yvonne's only children. Max was the older and about Dominique few years younger. Dominique was born a premature baby and has had some challenges related to that. 

After the death of George the family began to heal and celebrate that they were still a family and a strong one at that. They decided to take the trip to Aruba to celebrate they were all together and still going strong. Losing the Father had to be a big blow to young small children.

When they arrived on Aruba they were booked at La Cabana and were having a terrific time. A few days into the trip a man named David Stacey Sr. (age 52 approximately) and his adopted son David Stacey Jr (Age 31 approximately) indicated that they had been watching the kids on a pool slide and in the rec room. Yvonne found out that David Stacey had recently adopted David Stacey Jr. I'm not sure when she discovered he adopted Mr. She thought it was odd that an older man was adopting a fully grown man. I do not know David Stacey Junior's given name. 

The Staceys inserted themselves in the daily activities of the DeVries. David Stacey Jr. asked Max to play pool in the rec room and Yvonne said that would be ok. Yvonne indicated that she felt later (looking back) that they were stalked by the two. Perhaps the Staceys thought Max might be an easy mark as there were no older men around - no father.

Yvonne budgeted the trip and felt that doing each water sport activity would be sufficient. She did not plan on two or three adventures on each of the activities. Some of these can be rather expensive. Jet-Skiing is about 35 dollars for a half an hour.

Max had already done the majority of the water activities when David Stacey Jr asked Max to go Jet Skiing. Yvonne said no He had already gone and she didn't want to pay. DS Jr said he would pay. Yvonne reluctantly agreed. When Max returned from the Jet Skiing he told his mom that they had broken the rules of the Jet Ski company and had gone beyond a sand bar. Yvonne was disappointed that Max had broken the rules but glad he had told her the truth. Max always told the truth according to Yvonne and she was glad to know he had that character.

A few days later (could be even the following day) David Stacey SR. asked Max to once again to go Jet Skiing. Max said he could not. He had already been twice and he said no way would his mother allow it after he had broken the rules and she would never pay for it. 

David Stacey Sr said he would ask Yvonne and he would pay for it. Yvonne was approached by David Stacey Sr. and she reluctantly agreed to keep from disappointing Max. She did not want Max to go again, but did agree.

Max promised that they would not go beyond the allotted time or distance. David Stacey Sr and Max departed. 

Approximately 45 minutes later Yvonne was starting to worry as they should have been back a few minutes prior. They did not return. Yvonne alerted Beach Patrol and they started to inquire where the two were. I guess they radioed around to find them and no luck. The Jet Ski company then started to also look.  They knew they should have been back by then. The Jet Ski company knew were missing first as the time had expired on their session. Yvonne was getting very worried as Max had said he would not break the rules. 

The Jet Ski company gave instructions prior to departure about what to do in case of a stalled Jet Ski. They were to tie the skis together front to back. 

David Stacey Sr was found in possession of both Jet Skis roughly six miles out and off shore and six miles down from La Cabana. This would be off the southern coast of Aruba in the area of Savenata. The Jet Skis were not tied in the proper fashion. 

When David Stacey Sr. was found he had scratches all over his body and a few bruises. Yvonne was told that ONE person was found. Yvonne immediately knew it was not Max or they would have told her Max had been found to relieve her worry. Yvonne and Dominique were taken to the Polis station. I'm not sure which one, most likely Bubali as that was the closest station to La Cabana.

When she arrived at the station David Stacey Sr. was not around. was not around. Yvonne asked where Mr. Stacey was and a polis officer told her he was in the shower. She asked why he was allowed to take a shower and was told he was cold and they allowed it. She immediately knew all evidence was most likely gone. This is when she discovered the scratches and bruises on David Stacey Sr. 

David Stacey Jr. is not indicated to be at the polis station at this time. David Stacey Sr said that Max has fallen off of his jet ski and went under the water and did not re-surface. 

Yvonne gave a statement and David Stacey Sr also gave his version of the events. The "loss" of Max is considered an accident. There was no desire to investigate David Stacey Sr or David Stacey Jr. by the police investigators. It was all over lickity split.  Yvonne decided it was time to leave. She did not wish to stay on Aruba. While at the airport she saw the Stacey leaving also. David Stacey Sr only had a small bag and no other luggage. David Stacey Sr. only had a small bag and no other luggage. She wondered how someone could be on a trip for a week or ten days and have no luggage.

To date, almost 4 years, Yvonne has received no official documents from anyone on Aruba. Max is not classified as dead and there is no death certificate. Again, NO DOCUMENTS. Yvonne has indicated to me she is wrought with worry that Max is / was a sex slave, and could be a drug mule.

After returning to the States and Michigan, Yvonne started the Max to the Millions foundation in Max's name.

http://www.maxtothemillions.com/


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: vms on July 07, 2008, 02:04:37 PM
Poochy...I have questions about Steve's boss and the Tattoo! Just recently we read that it is back in business and that Steve is back on board...a little worse for wear, I might add. Wiggins did have some AHATA ties IIRC, and that in itself make me suspicious.

The Soul Beach after-party on the Saturday night shifted to the Tattoo, and I have wondered about any sort of party on the Sunday night on that boat.

Steve also told reporters in August that he was exonerated, but was questioned again - as a suspect, and apparently his own mother thought he was one as well!  She notified the press concerned he was to be arrested again! 

Mum, that explains all the new Tattoo webpages I am seeing! I wonder who used to own the boat, and who owns it now.

'The DJ was the vessel".

And yes, never forget the SBMFestival going on that night.  I read they were so ticked off with all the boats in the waters just off the beach that didn't pay the SBMF entry fee. I doubt the boats left immediately after the music ended after a few days of partying -they would want to extend it more. I doubt SCroes was sound asleep in his little boat at that time unless he was passed out :)


Marcus Wiggins still owns it AFAIK. It was reported that he sold it but I don't know if the sale fell through or he bought it back...


Tattoo celebrates 5 pm somewhere
March 17th, 2008
http://batibleki.visitaruba.com/2008/03/17/tattoo-celebrates-5-pm-somewhere/


July & August 2005 Watersports Update
September 6th, 2005
Tattoo Party Boat has a new owner
http://www.aruba.com/news/entertainment/july-august-2005-watersports-update/


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: vms on July 07, 2008, 02:17:16 PM
Same Dolfi? If so, he is married to Jeannette, police inspector? Same address...
 
STICHTING CARIBBEAN MELODIES PROMOTIONS 
http://www.arubachamber.com/registry/registry_result.afp?KeyValue=26976


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on July 07, 2008, 04:34:53 PM
Hey Monkeys,

If anyone has any photographs or important Zedan/Arambatzis information please post it over on the new Arambatzis thread.  We're trying to consolidate everything.  Thanks. ::MonkeyWink::

Is anyone else having problems loading the SM pages?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Blonde on July 07, 2008, 07:50:30 PM
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/Places%20of%20Intrest/TaTTOO-1.jpg)


http://www.arubaadventures.com/tattoo


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on July 07, 2008, 09:02:27 PM
CAPS - would you please look around in the records and see if you see anyone who fits with this group?  As always, thanks so much for your help.

Descendants of Zedan - Maracaibo, Venezuela


Generation No. 1
             ZEDAN-1  He married ARENDS(?). 
   
Child of ZEDAN and ARENDS(?) is:
   ZEDAN-ARENDS


Generation No. 2

ZEDAN-ARENDS (ZEDAN-1).  He married LILIAN REGINA RODRIGUEZ-ALBERT, daughter of RODRIGUEZ and ALBERT.  She was born in Aruba.
   
Child of ZEDAN-ARENDS and LILIAN RODRIGUEZ-ALBERT is:
   FREDDY ALEXANDER ZEDAN-ARENDS-RODRIGUEZ, b. 27 Sep 1984, Maracaibo,   
             Venezuela



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on July 08, 2008, 02:34:09 AM
DIRTYHAND DOES NOT HAVE THE LIONS TAMED!

Are these the 'lions' Koen was so afraid of? One goes by the nic 'David' as in "only DAVID got out alive" ::MonkeyShocked::
Note - the Hofstadgroup (Hofstadt being another name for The Hague

http://www.cot.nl/ttsrl/tekst/publications/Hofstadgroep.pdf

Jason Theodore James Walters, a.k.a. Abu Mujahied Amrik; a.k.a. Abdullah; a.k.a. David (born 6.3.1985 in Amersfoort, The Netherlands). Son of an American father and a Dutch mother. Walters was arrested 10 November 2004 after a 14-hour siege in The Hague. He was sentenced to 15 years of imprisonment for membership in a terrorist organization and
five murder attempts. 
http://www.frontpagemag.com/articles/Printable.aspx?GUID={8424448C-9238-4A5E-8069-9D9D9DF4B49A}
FrontPageMagazine.com | 12/12/2005

"...They approve of beheadings and their heroes are Osama bin Laden (honey LADEN notes?)  Ayman al-Zawahiri and Abu Musab al-Zarqawi. They call themselves “polder-mujahideen” and lions of tawheed” (unity). They are the 14 Dutch jihadists currently on trial in Amsterdam.

In September 2003, the Dutch Security and Intelligence Service (AIVD) coined the term “Hofstadgroup.” It refers to a group of young radical Muslims, most of whom were first or second generation Moroccan immigrants, who held regular meetings in the house of Mohammed Bouyeri in Amsterdam. This is the same Bouyeri who on November 2, 2004, killed Dutch filmmaker and columnist Theo van Gogh.  (AS IN "WHO LIKED TO MAKE MOVIES??)  

This summer, a Dutch court in Amsterdam sentenced Bouyeri, who once called the 9/11 terrorists “martyrs,” to life for murdering Van Gogh. Now he is on trial again for his leading role in the Hofstadgroup.

Another leader of the Hofstadgroup was a failed asylum seeker from Syria named Redouan al-Issa. He appears to have known of Bouyeri’s plan to kill Theo van Gogh, because a few days before Van Gogh’s murder he booked a ticket and left for Istanbul on the very morning Theo van Gogh was killed. His whereabouts are unknown, but there are rumors that the Syrian intelligence service arrested him after he returned to Syria.

In its early stages, the trial has centered on the Hofstadgroup’s fascination with decapitation. On the stand on the first day of the trial in Amsterdam, Rudolf Peters, a Dutch professor of Islamic Law, confirmed that beheadings were customary in the time of the prophet Mohammed and that a Muslim can behead someone today and then claim that in doing he followed the Prophet’s example. This explained why members of the Hofstadgroup watched videos and film footage showing beheadings in Iraq and Chechnya. For them, these beheadings were part of a holy religious ritual.

But some members of the group were more fanatical than others. Especially dangerous were the hard-core believers closest to Mohammed Bouyeri, the inner circle of about 5 to 6 young men. Mohammed el Morabit, a Moroccan member of the Hofstadgroup, who was not among the fanatics, told his Dutch interrogators that Mohammed Bouyeri became virtually ecstatic when he watched horrifying films. In Bouyeri’s house, a CD-ROM was found with films showing images  like the public amputation of a penis and sex with a dead female body.
[/b] 

Perhaps under the influence of his viewing habits, Bouyeri also tried to decapitate Theo van Gogh with a big knife, at which point he discovered that it was not so easy. In the months or weeks before the murder, he had tried to perfect his decapitation technique on one or more stolen sheep. A book on Zarqawi was also found in Bouyeri’s house, the notorious Jordanian al-Qaeda terrorist who introduced the terror cult of decapitation to Iraq.

Beheadings became an obsession for the Hofstadtgroup (. Nouredine el Fatmi, another prominent member of the Hofstadgroup and also on trial in Amsterdam, told his 16-year old girlfriend Malika Shabi: “If you behead someone, you must do it slowly and cut the throat first, but not entirely. This is more painful and it will prolong the suffering of your victim.”

El Fatmi was close with Bouyeri. In the summer of 2004, he and Shabi went to Bouyeri’s house in Amsterdam in order to be married according to the Islamic tradition. (Such “marriages” are quite common among radical Muslims; the woman in question has no rights whatsoever and the man can “divorce” her anytime and find another mate. These ‘Islamic marriages’ are not recognized by the laws of Western secular states.) Bouyeri himself led the wedding ceremony, and the newlyweds spent the night in Bouyeri’s small and highly uncomfortable place looking at violent film footage about the jihad and the killing of infidels.

In June 2005, El Fatmi was arrested in Amsterdam. In his backpack the police found a loaded machinegun. He was accompanied by Soumaya, one of his many girlfriends. With Soumaya’s help he planned to assassinate a Dutch politician whom he considered an enemy of Islam, but his timely arrest prevented him from carrying out his plan. After El Fatmi’s arrest, his so-called wife, Shabi, gave the Dutch police a detailed description of what was really going on inside the Hofstadgroup. Shabi confessed that she fell in with the group because El Fatmi looked handsome and he was charming. He was also convincing: He and his friends showed her film footage about the suffering of Muslims, a female suicide bomber, and Osama bin Laden. She further told the police that El Fatmi—“Fouad” as she called him—wanted her to become a “martyr.” He had shown her knives and explained how to decapitate somebody. He had also told her that one day they would drive a car loaded with explosives into a shopping center. “At that time I was impressed by all of this,” Shabi told the police. She also told the police that El Fatmi had approvingly referred to Mohammed Atta, the operational leader behind 9/11, as “a good boy.”

Shabi’s statement was summarized in an official police document. The prosecution wanted her to testify at the Hofstadgroup trial. But then she and members of her family began to receive serious threats. A letter addressed to her arrived in the mailbox of her parents, who hated Nouredine el Fatmi and his friends. The letter ordered Shabi to change or withdraw her statement to the police. “It is not allowed for Muslims to collaborate with unbelievers, especially if it is directed against Muslims,” the letter said. “Don’t you fear the curse of Allah? May Allah lead you or break your back.” Shabi, now only 17 years old, and her family were terrified. Although she denied it, it was a clear death threat. In court, Shabi did not want to look at the other defendants, keeping silent all the time and refusing even to answer introductory questions by the judge such as: “Is your name Malika Shabi?”

It was not the first time that people who provided the police or the judiciary with information about the Hofstadgroup or similar terror networks received serious threats. The group operates like the Italian mafia: Those who do not honor the oath of silence – the Islamist Omerta – will be liquidated.

Not on trial in Amsterdam is Samir Azzouz, a close friend of Mohammed Bouyeri and Jason Walters, an Islamist who will stand trial for attempting kill police officers with a hand grenade when they attempted to arrest him. Recruited into the Hofstadgroup by Walters, Azzouz is one of the most dangerous members of the Hofstadgroup, belonging to its inner circle. There was a separate trial this year dealing with charges not directly related to his membership in the Hofstadgroup, like his possible involvement in the robbery of a supermarket and suspicions that he planned a terrorist attack on his own. But he was acquitted both by the court and the appeals court for lack of evidence. It was a highly controversial court decision and it was not the first time that a Dutch court acquitted a dangerous terrorist suspect. (There is, for example, the case of Murat Ofkeli who was linked to an extremely dangerous Algerian terrorist group, he was released in 2003 by the Rotterdam court and after his release he simply continued to recruit people for the jihad.)

Likewise, Samir Azzouz, once released planned new terrorist attacks and he was arrested again in October 2005. The main reason for his arrest was the discovery of a so-called video-testament in which Azzouz announced that he was willing to die as a martyr. He praised “Sheikh Osama bin Laden” (“May Allah protect him”), “Sheikh Mujahid Ayman al-Zawahiri” and “our beloved Sheikh Abu Musab al-Zarqawi” (“May Allah protect him”) all of whom “warned you (the Dutch people) repeatedly.” Azzous was candid about his agenda: “We will revenge every Muslim who died while defending the Unity of Allah,” he claimed. And to the Dutch people he said: “It is allowed to kill you and confiscate your property.”

Azzouz, in common with the Islamist gang of 14 who went on trial this week, is an incurable fanatic and as such extremely dangerous. All of them believe in the glory of suicide. They admire Zarqawi and Bin Laden and their evil ideology of death and destruction. Nor is prison the worst of all possible outcomes for the members of the Hofstadgroup. As they see it, it is just another recruiting ground for their extremist cause.

Emerson Vermaat studied law at the Univeristy of Leiden, the Netherlands, and he is the author of a Dutch book on the Hofstadgroup: ‘De Hofstadgroep, Portret van een radicaal-islamitisch netwerk’ (Aspekt Publishers, Soesterberg, The Netherlands, Ocrober 2005).


http://emersonvermaat.com/
"...so, who liked to make movies"? Why Theo van Gogh of course! After Bouyeri killed Dutch filmmaker and columnist Theo van Gogh on November 2, 2004...and Bouyeri was a high ranking member of the "Hofstadbgroep"...

http://www.cot.nl/ttsrl/tekst/publications/Hofstadgroep.pdf
The Hofstadgroep is an Islamist terrorist organization of nine young Muslims in the Netherlands. The name "Hofstad" was originally the codename the Dutch General Intelligence and Security Service (Algemene Inlichtingen en Veiligheidsdienst, hereafter: AIVD) used for the group, which leaked to the media in 2003. The name refers to a popular name for the city of The Hague, where some members had been active. The group was influenced by the ideology of Takfir wal Hijra, a violent Islamist organization.

http://www.cot.nl/ttsrl/tekst/publications/Hofstadgroep.pdf



***** http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/front/special/cron.html *****



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on July 08, 2008, 07:40:06 AM
THE LIONS:

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:42 pm
The Lamb returned to the fold. Mary Rolled.

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:18 pm
DirtyHand does not play with the lions. but he has entered the maze. the lamb is a scapegoat. DirtyHand knows. So does the Elder.

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:23 pm
Follow the music into the maze. the lions know they are being stalked. the gamblers and other Rollers talk. tell the cowboys

Shango Says:June 27th, 2005 at 11:26 pm
The Arawaks will not enter the maze unless the cowboys refuse the peace pipe. Follow the music, the lions are not tame. DirtyHand knows, so does the elder.

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:43 pm
Mary rolled into the maze to play with lions but it was not a game. the lamb ran bleating afraid to walk through the maze. why don’t the arawaks ambush the lions? The cowboys don’t know. DirtyHand knows, but is afraid of the Arawak Nation. The gods are talking.

Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 12:28 am
Not all lions leave their den.

Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 12:39 am
The threadsurfers are opening the door to Babylon. Be careful of the lions. DirtyHand does not have them tamed but he can enter the den. Tell the cowboys.

Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 2:29 am
Babylon is Falling. The Arawak teepees will be crushed. will they sacrifice the Lamb or the Lion  to make the cowboys smile.

Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 2:39 am
The arawaks must hunt the lions in the place of darkness. house of secrets

Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 2:50 am
The babylonian and the shivas did not build castles in the sand. they lost to the lions. dirty hand knows. the elder knows. and so do the Arawaks. the cowboys are far from the house of Babylon.  the maze shall remain dark to all but the arawak nation and the elders.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Rob on July 08, 2008, 08:18:00 AM
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E07E3DE113EF933A15753C1A9679C8B63

A NATION CHALLENGED: THE HONEY TRADE; Two Men Held in Money-Smuggling Attempt

By WILLIAM K. RASHBAUM
Published: October 20, 2001

 Four days after federal officials moved to freeze the assets of several honey businesses in Yemen, saying they were tied to Osama bin Laden, two men were arrested at Kennedy Airport on charges that they tried to smuggle more than $100,000 in cash to Yemen in boxes of honey.

Federal authorities said yesterday that they have uncovered no evidence linking the two men, who were arrested on Tuesday by the United States Customs Service, to Mr. bin Laden. But a law enforcement official said the F.B.I. was investigating whether they have ties to a web of honey shops throughout the Middle East that federal officials say Mr. bin Laden uses to generate funds and mask the movement of cash, weapons, drugs and operatives throughout his Al Qaeda network.

The men arrested at the airport, Ali Alfatimi and Basam Nahshal, were arraigned on Wednesday on charges that they conspired to smuggle cash out of the United States, and they were both held without bail, one official said. Their lawyers could not be reached for comment last night.

Mr. Nahshal was arrested after he tried to pass through a security checkpoint in the Delta Airlines Terminal at Kennedy Airport and a search uncovered more than $140,000 in cash and checks, most of it hidden in cardboard boxes containing jars of honey, according to a criminal complaint by Donald Hughes, a Customs Service special agent.

The complaint, filed in Brooklyn federal court by prosecutors from the office of acting United States Attorney Alan Vinegrad, said Mr. Nahshal had planned to board Royal Jordanian Airlines Flight 262 to Amman, Jordan, and had a ticket for a connecting flight to Sana, Yemen.

After the cash was found in at least three of seven boxes Mr. Nahshal had with him, airport security guards called customs service inspectors, who questioned Mr. Nahshal, the complaint said. He produced $26,413 in cash, and a search revealed an additional $4,200 in negotiable checks in his pocket and another $10,000 in travelers checks in his suitcase.

While customs inspectors were questioning Mr. Nahshal, Mr. Alfatimi arrived at the Delta terminal and told the inspectors that Mr. Nahshal had contacted him after he was searched and that the money in the boxes was his, according to the complaint. Mr. Nahshal said Mr. Alfatimi had given him the boxes and asked him to deliver them to a man in Yemen. Mr. Alfatimi told Special Agent Hughes that for the last 18 months, as part of his travel agency business, he had been sending cash or checks to Yemen, using airline passengers as couriers and charging customers a two percent fee for each transaction.

The arrests come after United States Treasury officials, as part of the government's efforts to cut off funds to the Al Qaeda network, ordered financial institutions to freeze the assets of 39 additional people and organizations, including three honey-related shops in Yemen.

+++++++++++

http://www.iol.co.za/general/newsview.php?art_id=qw100339848123B221&click_id=3&set_id=1

Bitter uses of honey in Bin Laden's network

October 18 2001 at 09:50AM

New York - Along winding alleyways lined by ancient stone buildings, honey shops in Yemen display jars upon jars of sweet amber goo, beloved since biblical times here as a dessert and home remedy.

But behind storefronts adorned with painted beehives and giant replicas of honeycombs, less savory activities were taking place, American officials say.

The US Treasury has identified three honey-related businesses - all in San'a, the Yemeni capital - accused of being fronts to secretly move money for Osama bin Laden and his terrorist network, al-Qaeda.

The use of honey underscores the inventiveness of Bin Laden, the main suspect behind the September 11 suicide jet attacks in the United States.
<snipped>

++++++++++

there are many more references to Honey and smuggled terrorism money.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Blonde on July 08, 2008, 09:35:09 AM
VMS
I believe Freddy looks like Mayra...What's Your thoughts?  I which someone would put their pics side by side.......TIA

(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/Arrests%20in%20the%20case/fredmom.jpg)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on July 08, 2008, 09:59:09 AM

<snippet from your post above>

there are many more references to Honey and smuggled terrorism money.


ROB - you can say that again! GREAT FIND!  ::MonkeyDance:: Could explain all those "HONEY" references that 'came thru' for Natalee and Amy on the coffeepotghost site! ::MonkeyCool::

From the book "Global Financial Crime: Terrorism, Money Laudering and Off shore Centres:
"...the smell and consistency of honey makes it easy to hide weapons and drugs in the shipments. Thus using a normal export/import business might be a quite efficient way to steer financial flows to terorist cells...money starts off clean, then it becomes dirty.  DIRTYHAND.

5/16/06 the grey whisper said...
we all know the export is not the drugs, texan. find the real export in the middle of the island  and you will find the answers you seek

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:27 pm
The elder had to come clean. He knows what damaged he had caused. The Simian said to not shake the wire, ‘cause the bird would fly away. The Simian would never pose. Go back and read what the Simian wrote. The Babylonians knows what happened, but they are up in arms. The gamblers knew the girl.

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 9:57 pm
If the head of the beast is in plain view   it is folly to attack protected flanks.

Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 2:59 am
The Simian Doppleganger is upset because the arawak nation is hiding the truth from the cowboys. DirtyHand knows. Simian knows. The Simian stated for 2 days, the key would come from the hague the next day. Shango said no two times. Is Simian a DirtyHand too. Has the Simian played with the lions in the houses of ill-repute and poison notes where the innocent flies are lured? Has the Simian, primate that he is, fed with the other animals? Back ye fetid mongrel, as the 46th are you; delegate of the 7th level of inferno, not birthed, but spewed from the dark chasm of a nightmare!

(see #73 & #77  on this link)
http://scaredmonkeys.com/2007/12/04/natalee-holloway-investigation-beth-and-dave-holloway-in-conversation-with-aruban-om-for-hours/


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Rob on July 08, 2008, 12:03:17 PM
Poochy - JACKPOT

http://www.jamestown.org/terrorism/news/article.php?articleid=2369844

Radical Islam in Latin America

By Chris Zambelis


(December 2, 2005)

In the wake of the September 11 attacks, the possibility of al-Qaeda infiltrating Latin America became a priority for U.S. intelligence and law enforcement officials. However, the most publicized incidents of radical Islamist activity in Latin America have not been linked to al-Qaeda but instead to the Lebanese Shi’ite Hezbollah, which is ideologically and politically close to Iran. These include the March 1992 bombing of the Israeli Embassy in Buenos Aires, Argentina and the July 1994 attack against the Argentine-Israeli Mutual Association (AIMA), also in the Argentine capital, allegedly in retaliation for Israel’s assassination of former Hezbollah leader Sheikh Abbas al-Musawi and his family in February 1992.

Hezbollah officially denies responsibility for these attacks and remains emphatic that it only operates in the Israel-Lebanon theatre, in what it declares to be the defense of Lebanese soil and sovereignty against Israeli threats and occupation. Many questions still surround the attacks in Argentina. Some observers suggest that the attacks were in fact out of character for Hezbollah, and instead point to al-Qaeda’s possible involvement. This controversial theory throws into question the date of al-Qaeda’s earliest attack, which is generally believed to be the failed December 1992 attack against U.S. servicemen en route to Somalia in a hotel in Aden, Yemen that killed two Austrian tourists instead. It also raises the possibility of a link between the attacks in Latin America and the first World Trade Center bombing in February 1993.

Many observers believe the evidence implicating Iran and Hezbollah in these incidents is scant and, at best, circumstantial. Yet this did not prevent opponents of Argentine President Carlos Menem from exploiting the attacks in an effort to discredit him. Menem’s tenure in office was mired by corruption charges, which included allegations that he accepted a USD10 million bribe from Iranian intelligence to cover up Tehran’s alleged role in directing the attacks through Hezbollah. Some even pointed to Menem’s Syrian Christian origins as evidence of his alleged pro-Hezbollah leanings. These reports stem from the testimony of a former Iranian intelligence agent known by his alias, Abolghasem Mesbahi, who defected in 1996 and whose credibility has been the subject of intense speculation [1].

Subsequent legal action against Iran for its alleged role in the attacks led to the brief detainment of Iranian officials, including former Iranian Ambassador to Argentina, Hadi Soleimanpour, who was apprehended in the United Kingdom in 2003. However, a London court rejected the evidence provided by Argentine officials against the Ambassador and his colleagues.

The Nexus between Terrorism and Organized Crime

In June 2005, Ecuadorian security officials uncovered a drug smuggling ring led by a Quito-based restaurateur of Lebanese descent identified as Rady Zaiter. Under the auspices of “Operacion Damasco,” local security forces disrupted his syndicate, which stretched to the U.S., Europe, and the Middle East. Although little evidence has emerged confirming that Zaiter was anything other than a prolific drug dealer, Ecuadorian sources are emphatic that Zaiter had ties to Hezbollah and was in fact laundering money for the group [2]. This seems to fit a pattern in Latin America, as more countries attempt to curry favor with Washington by claiming solidarity in the war on terrorism by linking narcotics traffickers to terrorism.

Zaiter was also known by his aliases David Assi Alvarez and Almawla Fares. He is accused of cocaine trafficking and money laundering through a network of local drug smugglers and contacts in the sizable Arab and Muslim immigrant communities of Maicao, a free-trade zone in northeastern Colombia, as well as the capital Bogota. Like Zaiter, the majority of Maicao’s Arab Muslim population is of Lebanese descent. Others trace their origins to Syria and, to a lesser extent, Palestine [3].

Margarita Island, Venezuela, another free-trade zone that is home to a sizeable Arab Muslim (and Arab Christian) community, is also cited as a potential terrorist base. The alleged threat emanating from Margarita Island is receiving far more attention in Washington, but is as much a product of the simmering tensions between the Bush Administration and Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez.

Both Maicao and Margarita Island, along with the banking centers on the island of Curacao and elsewhere in the Netherlands Antilles, Colon, Panama, the Cayman Islands, and the rest of the Caribbean Basin, are part of a multifaceted network that facilitates the transfer of illicit funds from drug and weapons sales, as well as counterfeiting, piracy, and human smuggling. The warring factions in Colombia’s civil war also have a lucrative stake in this system.

The Tri-Border Area (TBA) that binds Puerto Iguazu, Argentina; Ciudad del Este, Paraguay; and Foz do Iguacu, Brazil, is another center of lawlessness and lucrative criminal activity in South America that includes Russian and Asian gangs, in addition to South American criminal syndicates. Hezbollah is reported to operate extensive operations involving fundraising and money laundering amidst the region’s sizeable Arab community in the TBA.

The Black Market Peso Exchange (BMPE), the largest and most sophisticated system of laundering money in the Western Hemisphere, along with other Alternative Remittance Systems (ARS), including hawala, an Islamic form of money transfer traditionally used by Muslims that facilitates the movement of funds through informal and anonymous channels, are endemic to Latin America and a central feature of organized crime and the drug trade in the region [4].

Despite a lack of hard evidence demonstrating collaboration between Hezbollah and al-Qaeda in Latin America and elsewhere for that matter, many observers worry that al-Qaeda may be using the same networks exploited by Hezbollah and other organizations to generate funds. Members of the Egyptian Gammat al-Islamiyya, including Al-Sayid Hassan Mukhlis, who is tied to the 1997 attack against tourists in Luxor, Egypt, have been linked to the TBA, allegedly as a local fundraiser for the group. Mukhlis was arrested in El Chui, Uruguay in January 1999 and eventually extradited to Egypt in 2003 [5]. Gammat al-Islamiyya is known to have links to al-Qaeda.

Islam in Latin America

Latin America is home to a sizeable and diverse Muslim population with deep roots throughout the region. Most Muslims are of Arab descent, typically of Lebanese, Syrian, and Palestinian origin, although Christian Arabs from the Levant far outnumber their Muslim kin. There are also sizeable South and Southeast Asian Muslim communities with roots in India, Pakistan, Afghanistan, and Indonesia in Suriname, Guyana, Trinidad and Tobago and elsewhere in the Caribbean Basin. The region is also experiencing a steady stream of migration from the Middle East and South Asia in recent years, especially in vibrant free-trade zones such as Iquique, Chile and Colon, Panama.

As a result of intermarriage and conversion, Islam is becoming one of the fastest growing religions in Latin America. There is evidence to suggest that Muslim missionaries based in Spain and their regional affiliates are making inroads into disenfranchised and underserved indigenous communities that were once the target of evangelical Christian sects for conversion [6]. The competition between Muslim and Christian missionaries for prospective converts has even led to confrontation and violent clashes in the Mexican state of Chiapas.

Spain’s al-Murabitun (The Almoravids, after the African Muslim dynasty that ruled North Africa and Spain in 11th and 12th century) is believed to be the most prolific missionary movement operating in Latin America [7]. The group is an international Sufi order founded in the 1970s by Sheikh Abdel Qader as-Sufi al-Murabit, a controversial Scottish Muslim convert born Ian Dallas. Although no hard evidence has surfaced tying the group to international terrorism, let alone al-Qaeda, Dallas has been accused of harboring extremist leanings. Aurelino Perez heads the Murabitun’s campaign in Chiapas, where he competes with Omar Weston, a British-born Muslim convert who resides in Mexico City and heads the Centro Cultural Islamico de Mexico (CCIM), for adherents in Chiapas and the rest of Mexico. Known locally as Muhammed Nafia, Perez is a Spanish convert to Islam who hails from the southern Spanish city of Granada in Andalusia.

The Murabitun’s ambitious efforts to gain adherents in Mexico include an unsuccessful attempt to forge an alliance with Subcommandante Marcos and his Zapatista Army of National Liberation (EZLN), following the group’s armed rebellion in Chiapas in 1994 [8]. The Murabitun are comprised predominantly of Spanish and European converts to Islam. There are also reports that Muslim missionaries are finding adherents among indigenous peoples in Bolivia and elsewhere in Latin America [9].

In an effort to win over converts in Latin America, the Murabtiun emphasize the cultural links between the Arab world and Latin America through Spain’s Moorish heritage. In doing so, the Murabitun and like-minded movements advocate a collective reversion to Islam, which in their view signifies a return to the region’s true heritage, as opposed to what many see as conversion to the Muslim faith. In this sense, Islam not only represents an alternative to the colonial traditions imposed on the indigenous and mestizo peoples of Latin America, namely the Roman Catholic Church, but is also a nativist tradition that has been suppressed. The Murabitun also claim that Islam is not tainted by European and Western colonialism and imperialism, but instead serves as a remedy for the oppression and destruction brought about by the Spanish conquest.

Given al-Qaeda’s documented successes in recruiting Muslim converts in Europe and the U.S. to its cause, many observers worry that Muslim converts in Latin America provide fertile ground for new recruits due to their perceived ability to circumvent travel restrictions and blend into Western cities more effectively.

There is no evidence to suggest that the recent trend toward conversion to Islam in Latin America stems from a turn to political and religious radicalism. On the contrary, most Muslim converts see Islam as a vehicle for reasserting their identity. They also see conversion as a form of social and political protest in societies where they are marginalized and experience discrimination [10]. In this context, it is no surprise that groups such as the Murabitun, with their message of social, political, and cultural empowerment, are making inroads into disenfranchised and impoverished indigenous communities. The group also supports local education, social welfare, and other projects that include Arabic language instruction and the publication of the Qur’an in Spanish and other local languages. I call bullshit!

Conclusion

Although the evidence pointing to an alleged al-Qaeda presence in the region is often overshadowed and/or confused with the reported activities of Hezbollah and other groups, it is important for policymakers to consider each of these organizations separately and not fall into the trap of linking them as part of a unified network with a common agenda. At the same time, the diverse array of criminal organizations active in the region—from local drug gangs to radical Islamists—demonstrates that weak institutions, political instability, corruption, and poverty provide ample opportunities for groups such as al-Qaeda and others to share the spoils.

++++++++++

my first bold at the very top in reference to Argentina is this -

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1058/is_n22_v111/ai_15699986
Jewish center bombed in Argentina
Christian Century,  July 27, 1994 


What has been described as the heart of the Argentine Jewish community was destroyed July 18 when a massive bomb blast ripped through a building in Buenos Aires. The religious center housed the Delegation of Argentine Israeli Associations, Argentina's primary Jewish communal leadership group, and the Argentine Israelite Mutual Association, the community's social service arm. The bombing left at least 37 confirmed dead and 157 injured. Three days after the incident some 60 others were still unaccounted for. Historic archives were also destroyed.

 Israel blamed the attack on Islamic extremists aligned with Iran and seeking revenge for a June Israeli attack on a pro-Iranian Hezbollah militia camp in Lebanon that left 50 guerrillas dead. Iran has denied any involvement. Argentine President Carlos Menem said the attack was planned "from abroad and helped by people [in Argentina]." The blast followed by little more than two years a car bomb attack on the Israeli Embassy in Buenos Aires that killed 28 and injured more than 200. No arrests have been made in that case, which Israel also blamed on Muslim extremists. While not discounting a possible Middle East link, Argentine Jews and others interviewed suggested an alternative motive for the latest bomb attack.

Among the projects housed at the building was a review of previously secret government files that reportedly reveal how scores of Nazis entered Argentina. following World War II with the help of Argentine officials. Review of the files has gone on for two years but was believed to be far from complete. Speculation centered on the possibility that former Argentine govemment and military officials, fearful of exposure, were responsible for the bomb attack, most likely in tandem with Middle East extremists.

"Blaming Muslims fits Israel's worldview, and blaming outsiders is convenient for Argentine officials who would prefer not to deal with an explosive domestic problem," said Carlos Waisman, an Argentine Jew who teaches political sociology at the University of California - San Diego. Moreover, said Waisman, Argentine Jews generally maintain a cordial if distant relationship with the country's estimated 500,000 Muslims of Arab descent. Menem himself was a Muslim but converted to Roman Catholicism in order to satisfy Argentine constitutional requirements for becoming president.

Rabbi Abraham Cooper, associate director of the Nazi-hunting Simon Wiesenthal Center in Los Angeles, suggested that these same cashiered govemment and military figures may also have sought to embarrass the Menem govemment because of its decision to release the files and its ties with Israel and the Argentine Jewish community. "Anti-Semitism is endemic in Argentina," added Jacobo Kovadloff, consultant on Latin American affairs for the New York-based American Jewish Committee. Earlier this year, Kovadloff noted, Argentina's chief rabbi was assaulted while walking to synagogue by youths who pushed him to the ground and shouted anti-Semitic curses. That attack followed by one day the painting of Nazi slogans on the chief rabbi's synagogue. Argentina hosts the largest Jewish community - estimates put the figure at upwards of 250,000 - in Latin America.

++++++

Iran found guilty of bombing synagogue years later.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Rob on July 08, 2008, 12:05:42 PM
Poochy, In my above post I highlighted the word Russian, I did that on purpose. Years ago, on the forum I was posting and someone asked me if I had ever seen any Russians on the island. I replied no. This person seem to imply that they were indeed there. That was about the extent of the exchange.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Rob on July 08, 2008, 12:21:07 PM
Poochy, In my above post I highlighted the word Russian, I did that on purpose. Years ago, on the forum I was posting and someone asked me if I had ever seen any Russians on the island. I replied no. This person seem to imply that they were indeed there. That was about the extent of the exchange.

Poochy I could literally go on and on here -

from above - It also raises the possibility of a link between the attacks in Latin America and the first World Trade Center bombing in February 1993.

We have now discovered that Ramzi Yousef (who was also the uncle of Khalid Shiek Mohammed) was the relation of Mohammed Atta.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on July 08, 2008, 01:29:15 PM
Poochy, In my above post I highlighted the word Russian, I did that on purpose. Years ago, on the forum I was posting and someone asked me if I had ever seen any Russians on the island. I replied no. This person seem to imply that they were indeed there. That was about the extent of the exchange.


Darn Rob...a name would have been nice...Need to check the Chamber lists....Though these guys probably aren't on it....wonder if they have listed phone numbers?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on July 08, 2008, 01:29:49 PM
Poochy - JACKPOT

http://www.jamestown.org/terrorism/news/article.php?articleid=2369844

Radical Islam in Latin America

By Chris Zambelis


(December 2, 2005)
<SNIPPET FROM YOUR POST>

The Nexus between Terrorism and Organized Crime

In June 2005, Ecuadorian security officials uncovered a drug smuggling ring led by a Quito-based restaurateur of Lebanese descent identified as Rady Zaiter. Under the auspices of “Operacion Damasco,” local security forces disrupted his syndicate, which stretched to the U.S., Europe, and the Middle East. Although little evidence has emerged confirming that Zaiter was anything other than a prolific drug dealer, Ecuadorian sources are emphatic that Zaiter had ties to Hezbollah and was in fact laundering money for the group [2]. This seems to fit a pattern in Latin America, as more countries attempt to curry favor with Washington by claiming solidarity in the war on terrorism by linking narcotics traffickers to terrorism.

Zaiter was also known by his aliases David Assi Alvarez and Almawla Fares. He is accused of cocaine trafficking and money laundering through a network of local drug smugglers and contacts in the sizable Arab and Muslim immigrant communities of Maicao, a free-trade zone in northeastern Colombia, as well as the capital Bogota. Like Zaiter, the majority of Maicao’s Arab Muslim population is of Lebanese descent. Others trace their origins to Syria and, to a lesser extent, Palestine [3].

Margarita Island, Venezuela, another free-trade zone that is home to a sizeable Arab Muslim (and Arab Christian) community, is also cited as a potential terrorist base. The alleged threat emanating from Margarita Island is receiving far more attention in Washington, but is as much a product of the simmering tensions between the Bush Administration and Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez.

Both Maicao and Margarita Island, along with the banking centers on the island of Curacao and elsewhere in the Netherlands Antilles, Colon, Panama, the Cayman Islands, and the rest of the Caribbean Basin, are part of a multifaceted network that facilitates the transfer of illicit funds from drug and weapons sales, as well as counterfeiting, piracy, and human smuggling. The warring factions in Colombia’s civil war also have a lucrative stake in this system.
...
Conclusion

Although the evidence pointing to an alleged al-Qaeda presence in the region is often overshadowed and/or confused with the reported activities of Hezbollah and other groups, it is important for policymakers to consider each of these organizations separately and not fall into the trap of linking them as part of a unified network with a common agenda. At the same time, the diverse array of criminal organizations active in the region—from local drug gangs to radical Islamists—demonstrates that weak institutions, political instability, corruption, and poverty provide ample opportunities for groups such as al-Qaeda and others to share the spoils.
+++++++++

ROB - YUP. JACKPOT IS RIGHT!  Now you're talkin'.

THAT would scare the beezeebers out of the Gottenbos family. THAT would give out those neckties. THAT would have rattled the coffins in the cemetary. THAT would cause Joran to chew on his bloody tongue and say 'one day I will tell my story' (well, er he sorta did), THAT would cause the Kalpoes to continue to STFU, and THAT is why Beth said the world would be shocked. If we only knew what was on those islands we'd never vacation on them. They are ALL TERRIFIED. Aruba knows what happened, but they are terrified. Choose-a-name bouncer was a sign to Aruba as his chopped up body burned outside a tourist cave.

So Sumerians don't like the Casino intrusion. No wonder the RitzC changed it's mind. Untamed lions...

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:14 pm
Simian, The Sumerians do not like the Babylonian intrusion.
The Babylonian card may be tossed from the table and crushed under Sumerian feet


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

POTTERY = JUG/JAR TWITTY (never forget AmSouth-)  Was Natalee was stalked before or during her trip like Max deVries and all the others? The pack did panic. They left Beth all alone.

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 6:16 pm
The pottery need not break and yet the pack still may panic. I am leaving. I am done.
 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on July 08, 2008, 02:00:48 PM
Poochy, In my above post I highlighted the word Russian, I did that on purpose. Years ago, on the forum I was posting and someone asked me if I had ever seen any Russians on the island. I replied no. This person seem to imply that they were indeed there. That was about the extent of the exchange.


Darn Rob...a name would have been nice...Need to check the Chamber lists....Though these guys probably aren't on it....wonder if they have listed phone numbers?


Rob, Mum,

Is this the Russian to whom you refer?
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=abramovich+aruba

The richest man on the planet?
http://www.silobreaker.com/DocumentReader.aspx?Item=5_877142538


I also read the boat was in Aruba at the time it was to be 'christened'. Not sure if rumor or not.  http://community.webshots.com/album/137248985MPhMGO/0



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Rob on July 08, 2008, 02:34:13 PM
Poochy, Mr. Abramovich is a cause for concern, but probably not DIRECTLY linked to Aruba. I say DIRECTLY. He could be linked in a roundabout way, but why use Aruba when he had Putin and Russia. Not much reason I can see. Yes, the Ecstasea was on sea trials during the time Natalee disappeared. However, no one has ever even put him close to Aruba. The closest I ever got personally was when I discovered that the manager of the Chelsea Football Club used the boat then. He used it as a gift from Roman.

I just don't see how Roman fits into all of this. I don't think these are the Russians that the anon poster was referring to. There could have been other Russians on board and likely were, and they could work for Roman, but again, I'm not at all sure how Roman fits in. Maybe just googling Roman Abramovich and 5-30-2005 might shed some light of his schedule. He seems pretty easy to find due to his high profile. He is not hiding as far as I have seen and his very public divorce is all over the net.

As for the Sumerians - I almost for got about that. Boy, that fits right in and could be a reason everyone is scared to death.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on July 08, 2008, 02:52:59 PM
Poochy, In my above post I highlighted the word Russian, I did that on purpose. Years ago, on the forum I was posting and someone asked me if I had ever seen any Russians on the island. I replied no. This person seem to imply that they were indeed there. That was about the extent of the exchange.


Darn Rob...a name would have been nice...Need to check the Chamber lists....Though these guys probably aren't on it....wonder if they have listed phone numbers?


Rob, Mum,

Is this the Russian to whom you refer?
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=abramovich+aruba

The richest man on the planet?
http://www.silobreaker.com/DocumentReader.aspx?Item=5_877142538


I also read the boat was in Aruba at the time it was to be 'christened'. Not sure if rumor or not.  http://community.webshots.com/album/137248985MPhMGO/0




No...ran across one a few weeks back that owns a certain property in Florida that we have been looking at...saved the records, as I didn't find anything, but my interest peeked when Rob mentioned Russians in Aruba.

Probably nothing more than them being a landlord.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: vms on July 08, 2008, 05:49:56 PM
Mum,

Sasha added some friends today, I see. I think we have a connection to the two at last...

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a398/vms58/SashaErnesto.jpg)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: vms on July 08, 2008, 05:59:44 PM
Mum,

Sasha added some friends today, I see. I think we have a connection to the two at last...

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a398/vms58/SashaErnesto.jpg)

Also another Arambatzis added and Mayra Smalley...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Rob on July 08, 2008, 07:16:52 PM
Poochy, something just hit me - I remember a while back, during the very height of the Al-Qaida disclosures, the CIA / NSA / FBI said explicitly that Al-Qaida was in 60 countries. I believe there were only 191 countries total at that time. I think a few more have been added since then. That is 1/3 of the total countries on the planet and makes the possibility that they are in Latin America a very very very real possibility. (We have seen enough cached docs to prove that).

I also remember something from my own personal investigations of countries that I was thinking of traveling - Granada (Not Grenada) was a Muslim country and even possessing a single joint could land your tush in the hottest water you could imagine. I asked my friend, who used to guard Al Gore during the Clinton years, if that was true - his words - stay the F outta there! This same guy used to guard the Treasury Sec (in the Bush Admin) who was from my area and he has now been reassigned to the counterfeiting division. Secret Service, as you are well aware, is a division of the Treasury.

I asked him if this was truly a Muslim country and he also indicated - not on top - but below. This could be a hot bed of activity and maybe we should look into this a little bit.

Every terrorism group I have ever seen needs a base of operation away from the areas where the deeds are carried out.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on July 08, 2008, 10:34:43 PM
Poochy, something just hit me - I remember a while back, during the very height of the Al-Qaida disclosures, the CIA / NSA / FBI said explicitly that Al-Qaida was in 60 countries. I believe there were only 191 countries total at that time. I think a few more have been added since then. That is 1/3 of the total countries on the planet and makes the possibility that they are in Latin America a very very very real possibility. (We have seen enough cached docs to prove that).

I also remember something from my own personal investigations of countries that I was thinking of traveling - Granada (Not Grenada) was a Muslim country and even possessing a single joint could land your tush in the hottest water you could imagine. I asked my friend, who used to guard Al Gore during the Clinton years, if that was true - his words - stay the F outta there! This same guy used to guard the Treasury Sec (in the Bush Admin) who was from my area and he has now been reassigned to the counterfeiting division. Secret Service, as you are well aware, is a division of the Treasury.

I asked him if this was truly a Muslim country and he also indicated - not on top - but below. This could be a hot bed of activity and maybe we should look into this a little bit.

Every terrorism group I have ever seen needs a base of operation away from the areas where the deeds are carried out.

Rob, scarey statistics! And yeah, know all about Granada. Your buddy is spot on ::MonkeyCool::

The 'gods' of each country know all about the infiltration of the lions, sitting back as they get stronger. Not sure what that's about. Why would Aruba put up with the Sloots after what their son did to all of them? How could they continue to teach and practice law and have art shows, and act as if nothing happened while their son literally destroyed a country single handed? It's because ALL OF THEM know what's going - the Arawaks, Babylonians, Elders, Dutch, Syrians, poison siren cops, dirty hands, gamblers, all of 'em.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Rob on July 08, 2008, 10:50:45 PM
poochy -

zoltanzion@hotmail.com

I would like to share something with you.

Everyone else - it's nothing important. Really it's not. It's just gibber jabber.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: always 1 on July 08, 2008, 11:38:46 PM
Rob, I just have to say, I really admire you.  You know a lot about a lot of things...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on July 08, 2008, 11:41:36 PM
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=76034452

John Chemaly, Damalice


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on July 09, 2008, 12:05:05 AM
Check your inbox Rob. Meanwhile, I thought this was interesting.

http://www.brazzilmag.com/content/view/9539/1/

Written by Newsroom     
Saturday, 05 July 2008 
 The Brazilian government launched the process to buy at least 36 fighter jets as part of a broader plan to modernize its Air Force and in keeping with neighbors like Venezuela, Chile and Peru, which are also in the process of overhauling their fleets.

According to Brasília sources, Brazil wants to buy and build equipment to defend offshore oil assets and the porous Amazon border threatened by armed drug-traffickers, smugglers and foreign guerrillas.

In February, Colombia ordered 24 Kfir bomber jets from Israel, while Venezuela acquired Russian Sukhoi jets and last month revealed it is considering buying more. Chile bought new Boeing F-16s and Peru decided to upgrade its jets. Argentina has also announced plans to upgrade its air force.

Upon taking office in January 2003, President Lula da Silva scrapped plans to replace aging Mirage jets, saying he would use the money to feed the poor.

Now, the Air Force wants a multi-role fighter to replace its entire fleet of fighter jets over the next 15 years. That could increase the size of the order to more than 100 aircraft.

Six manufacturers figure in the possible list of procurement from which he Brazilian Air Force requested information according to the service press department. They are Boeing's F-18 Super Hornet; Lockheed Martin's F-35 Lightning II; Dassault's Rafale; Sukhoi's SU-35, Saab's Gripen and Eurofighter's Typhoon.

Brazil is seeking a generous technology transfer package, possibly including local assembly, to help develop its own aviation industry and perform maintenance of the aircraft.

Brazil has been leading an effort to create a South American Defense Council to help coordinate arms purchases. Though many of its neighbors have recently renewed their fleets, some manufactures still see Brazil as a possible regional defense hub.
 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on July 09, 2008, 08:07:24 AM
Mum,

Sasha added some friends today, I see. I think we have a connection to the two at last...

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a398/vms58/SashaErnesto.jpg)

Also another Arambatzis added and Mayra Smalley...



vms...Thanks!...I am so glad that Sasha has a friend...and that they all seem to have reconnected.

I am still a little worried that none of sasha's schoolmates's have signed her guestbook, this poor girl must not be very popular with her peers. But she does have her family! ::MonkeyCool::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on July 09, 2008, 08:11:32 AM
And I thought it was only where I come from that needed a rabbit proof fence... ::MonkeyHaHa::

Good Morning Aruba, Venezuela and Southern Florida! ::MonkeyWink::



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on July 09, 2008, 08:18:53 AM
Rob......IIRC one of the SGs was from Granada! ::MonkeyConfused::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on July 09, 2008, 08:39:39 AM
Mum,

Sasha added some friends today, I see. I think we have a connection to the two at last...

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a398/vms58/SashaErnesto.jpg)

Also another Arambatzis added and Mayra Smalley...



vms...Thanks!...I am so glad that Sasha has a friend...and that they all seem to have reconnected.

I am still a little worried that none of sasha's schoolmates's have signed her guestbook, this poor girl must not be very popular with her peers. But she does have her family! ::MonkeyCool::




I think they just want to be included in the genealogy tree.  ::MonkeyWink::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on July 09, 2008, 08:52:00 AM
I wonder why Mayra still uses the name Smalley.  She has been married at least twice since she was divorced from Clarence Smalley.  ::MonkeyConfused::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on July 09, 2008, 08:52:25 AM
Mum,

Sasha added some friends today, I see. I think we have a connection to the two at last...

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a398/vms58/SashaErnesto.jpg)

Also another Arambatzis added and Mayra Smalley...



vms...Thanks!...I am so glad that Sasha has a friend...and that they all seem to have reconnected.

I am still a little worried that none of sasha's schoolmates's have signed her guestbook, this poor girl must not be very popular with her peers. But she does have her family! ::MonkeyCool::




I think they just want to be included in the genealogy tree.  ::MonkeyWink::



 ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyHaHa::


But, but, but...don't they have have to be logged in to see it ::MonkeyEek::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on July 09, 2008, 08:58:53 AM
I wonder why Mayra still uses the name Smalley.  She has been married at least twice since she was divorced from Clarence Smalley.  ::MonkeyConfused::

I don't believe she does... ::MonkeyHaHa::



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on July 09, 2008, 09:08:56 AM
Shouldn't someone be asking why all of a sudden there IS the connection to Ernesto that we have searched high and low for?  I must be the only person seeing this red flag here.  I think if Ernesto wanted a connection he would have made it long before now...I suspect we are being played. JMO of course.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on July 09, 2008, 09:15:12 AM
Shouldn't someone be asking why all of a sudden there IS the connection to Ernesto that we have searched high and low for?  I must be the only person seeing this red flag here.  I think if Ernesto wanted a connection he would have made it long before now...I suspect we are being played. JMO of course.



::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyDance::

Two can play that game... ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyHaHa::




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: vms on July 09, 2008, 09:25:15 AM
Seems to me they'd run in the other direction but who knows?
Nothing would surprise me...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on July 09, 2008, 09:52:19 AM
Freddy's House


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on July 09, 2008, 10:14:52 AM
Thanks SS...I am posting the link to Rob's map from yesterday...Thanks Rob!

Finngirl or any of our other veteran posters...does any of this make any sense to you, or what you recall from 2005?  TIA


http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=3029.400


Re: Natalee Case Discussion #763 7/6
« Reply #413 on: July 08, 2008, 06:11:17 PM »


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: truthseeker2 on July 09, 2008, 10:16:49 AM
Shouldn't someone be asking why all of a sudden there IS the connection to Ernesto that we have searched high and low for?  I must be the only person seeing this red flag here.  I think if Ernesto wanted a connection he would have made it long before now...I suspect we are being played. JMO of course.

LOL.  No, you are not the only one.  I'm with ya on this.  Too coincidently for my liking.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on July 09, 2008, 11:09:48 AM
Shouldn't someone be asking why all of a sudden there IS the connection to Ernesto that we have searched high and low for?  I must be the only person seeing this red flag here.  I think if Ernesto wanted a connection he would have made it long before now...I suspect we are being played. JMO of course.

LOL.  No, you are not the only one.  I'm with ya on this.  Too coincidently for my liking.



Aruba....the land of coincidence.... ::MonkeyWink::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on July 09, 2008, 12:21:59 PM
Sorry to interrupt your thought flow, but can somebody tell me if there was an Egungun masquerade going on in Aruba when Natalee went missing? I found these posts and one codetalker does mention a prince at the masquerade.

Thanks!


http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1403.msg243512#msg243512

Quote from: "gagirl"
I just wanted to post that I don't believe I'm physic or anything like that. But.. when I woke up that morning and read Shango's post I started crying.
It was completly out of character and I still don't know where it came from.
But something is telling me Shango is a key.
So that's why I went in the direction that I went with the search.

There is one thing that I found concerning this time frame and their festival.
These festivals are known to continue late in to the night sometime up until 4 in the morning.
 EGUNGUN FESTIVAL
MAY 25th - JUNE 2nd
Celebration of the great ancestors; pageants featuring
annual Royal Customs and the Oba's sacrifice to the ancestors.


Among the Oyo-Yoruba (who trace their political power back to Shango) the senior Elder Egungun masquerade is always Egungun Oya--the goddess in the form of cloth-segments.

Egungun is (almost exclusively, except for a few titled women) a male cult. Women are not allowed to come out during the ceremonies when Egunguns such as 'Oro' comes out to perform. It is believed that if a woman sees the masquerade, she would die very soon.

Wow - KV123 - are you reading this? (we were PM'ing eachother a few days ago about something very similar to this)...PMs are not allowed now otherwise I will share with you all - will do so shortly...The Snork


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on July 09, 2008, 01:43:44 PM
Poochy
I would think we need to ask someone that was on Aruba during that time for sure.  I would not be the least surprised since there are those that are into the Santeria stuff and those other pagan customs.  This entire case has been a voo doo nightmare actually.  Of course, there are those that think cannibals took Natalee too.  :roll:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: vms on July 09, 2008, 02:21:05 PM
FWIW...

Spanish Naming Conventions

Basic Practice

In Spanish-speaking cultures, when a woman marries a man, she does not lose her maiden surname. Additionally, her family name is carried by her children just as her husband's family name is carried forward.

According to Spanish custom, when a child is born, he/she receives the first surname from the father. The second surname is the first surname of the mother. (Portuguese speaking countries also use two family names, but for them the mother's surname comes first.)

To illustrate, a father named Pablo Guerra Recio, married to Refugia Alfrido Garcia, may wish to name their son Pablo, after himself. Their son's name will then be: Pablo Guerra Alfrido.

As you can see, "middle" names are not middle names as we know them in English-speaking cultures, but are, instead, a surname derived from the parents' surnames. (In fact, the two surnames of the child are those of his paternal grandfather and his maternal grandfather, in that order.)

The first surname is primary, and the second sub-ordinate -- exactly the reverse of the middle and last names of non-Spanish speaking cultures (non-Hispanics). To a Hispanic, therefore, "Ornelas, Miguel Ledesma," would denote Miguel Ornelas Ledesma rather than, as a non-Hispanic would expect, Miguel Ledesma Ornelas.

The main thing to remember is the child takes as its first surname (primary) the first surname of the father, and as its second surname (secondary) the first surname of its mother.

You can readily see how this custom, once you become accustomed to the practice, can be extremely beneficial in identifying the parents and grandparents of ancestors. It is much more difficult to "lose" a female ancestor in the records of Spanish-speaking cultures than in English-speaking cultures.

Even though Maria Cantu Villarreal is married, her death certificate will list a her as Maria Cantu Villarreal, probably adding the comment that she was the wife of Andres Trevino Hinojosa. This custom eliminates the problem frequently encountered in American or British research of trying to find the mother's maiden name.

Some irregularities require further explanation.

More here:  Link (http://www.tarver-genealogy.net/aids/spanish/sp_naming_conv.html#surnames)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on July 09, 2008, 02:31:47 PM
FWIW...

Spanish Naming Conventions

Basic Practice

In Spanish-speaking cultures, when a woman marries a man, she does not lose her maiden surname. Additionally, her family name is carried by her children just as her husband's family name is carried forward.

According to Spanish custom, when a child is born, he/she receives the first surname from the father. The second surname is the first surname of the mother. (Portuguese speaking countries also use two family names, but for them the mother's surname comes first.)

To illustrate, a father named Pablo Guerra Recio, married to Refugia Alfrido Garcia, may wish to name their son Pablo, after himself. Their son's name will then be: Pablo Guerra Alfrido.

As you can see, "middle" names are not middle names as we know them in English-speaking cultures, but are, instead, a surname derived from the parents' surnames. (In fact, the two surnames of the child are those of his paternal grandfather and his maternal grandfather, in that order.)

The first surname is primary, and the second sub-ordinate -- exactly the reverse of the middle and last names of non-Spanish speaking cultures (non-Hispanics). To a Hispanic, therefore, "Ornelas, Miguel Ledesma," would denote Miguel Ornelas Ledesma rather than, as a non-Hispanic would expect, Miguel Ledesma Ornelas.

The main thing to remember is the child takes as its first surname (primary) the first surname of the father, and as its second surname (secondary) the first surname of its mother.

You can readily see how this custom, once you become accustomed to the practice, can be extremely beneficial in identifying the parents and grandparents of ancestors. It is much more difficult to "lose" a female ancestor in the records of Spanish-speaking cultures than in English-speaking cultures.

Even though Maria Cantu Villarreal is married, her death certificate will list a her as Maria Cantu Villarreal, probably adding the comment that she was the wife of Andres Trevino Hinojosa. This custom eliminates the problem frequently encountered in American or British research of trying to find the mother's maiden name.

Some irregularities require further explanation.

More here:  Link (http://www.tarver-genealogy.net/aids/spanish/sp_naming_conv.html#surnames)


Still   ::MonkeyConfused::

But then I am still trying to work out if Montanja 39F or 62 back on to Joran's house...and more importantly who lives there...maybe the Chamber will put out their 2008 list and we will have a bit more clarity....or maybe not!

Thanks vms...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on July 09, 2008, 02:39:16 PM
7A Catiri.  ::MonkeyCool::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: vms on July 09, 2008, 02:56:30 PM
From Catiri 7-A, I believe...
http://www.news.diario-aruba.com/content/view/779/111/


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on July 09, 2008, 03:34:21 PM
Poochy
I would think we need to ask someone that was on Aruba during that time for sure.  I would not be the least surprised since there are those that are into the Santeria stuff and those other pagan customs.  This entire case has been a voo doo nightmare actually.  Of course, there are those that think cannibals took Natalee too.  :roll:

Yes Lala'sMom, a voodoo nightmare it has been.

About your last sentence, I rolled my eyes too until I was told to googled the words "long pig". Humans got that nic cuz we are supposed to taste like porky pig but much better (barf). Well, my brain can't go there let alone even consider that happening to Natalee but if you decide to google, make sure you don't do it around meal time. There's this whole other world out there that many don't know exists-- (double barf).


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: yapperz1 on July 09, 2008, 04:52:08 PM
Here is a pic of Freddy's house that I have had for a looong time.  Not sure it can help identify the addy but may be of some help.
(http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l286/yapperz1/Freddyshouse.jpg)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Blonde on July 09, 2008, 06:58:19 PM
Shouldn't someone be asking why all of a sudden there IS the connection to Ernesto that we have searched high and low for?  I must be the only person seeing this red flag here.  I think if Ernesto wanted a connection he would have made it long before now...I suspect we are being played. JMO of course.
  Maybe after three long years they are now feeling safe ::MonkeyConfused::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on July 09, 2008, 11:18:15 PM
Here is a pic of Freddy's house that I have had for a looong time.  Not sure it can help identify the addy but may be of some help.
(http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l286/yapperz1/Freddyshouse.jpg)

Thanks Yapp.  Kermit gave us the Catiri address...everything froggy does has a reason behind it.  I am sure there is a reason.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: finngirl on July 10, 2008, 04:16:42 AM
Finngirl or any of our other veteran posters...does any of this make any sense to you, or what you recall from 2005?  TIA

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=3029.400

Re: Natalee Case Discussion #763 7/6
« Reply #413 on: July 08, 2008, 06:11:17 PM »

Mum: post #413 contains the neighborhood map ...
here are my random thoughts re that/other recent topics
here/in NCD thread:

"freddy's house was near vdS house" =
cannot recall who said it/who provided the so-called map
but it was mid-summer 2005/before freddy's arrest ...
for sure it was in the forum/not the FP
and the poster/whoever it was seemed legit:

the two houses were diagonal from each other
thru the backyards plus a couple/few empty lots ...
they said it was a short walk/just a few minutes

the recently posted google map and hand-drawn map
show that the houses are diagonal from each other
and appear to be w/in a few minutes walking distance ...

but there are a couple streets to be traveled
(width-wise rather than length-wise)
in getting from one house to the other ...
which is the main difference from the original info:
the two properties (#19/#39F)
aren't linked thru backyards + empty lots

my teenage friends and I quite often got away w/
out the bedroom window/thru the back gate/over the fence
when we wanted to pull off our version of "up to no good" ...
which BTW was nothing major
and didn't include death/disappearance

if mountain girls could fool the parents so could island boys
especially if the parents/PvdS/elders didn't need to be fooled

:::shrugs:::
_ _ _ _ _

"freddy was staying at vdS house on the night in question" =
I never heard that until freddy was arrested in august.
if it came out before then I totally missed it ...
I remember thinking WTF? that night

then again, maybe that's why the proximity of the two houses
had been discussed a month or so earlier

what's up w/ the conflicting stories re freddy's overnighter?
after the august arrests jossy(?)/MSM reported that freddy said:
freddy stayed at vdS home/didn't go out that night ...
JvdS came home/said he'd met an american girl/no sex/yawn

but in the JvdS book version and/or freddy's PV
freddy said JvdS told him about the american girl the next day

so it appears that freddy had originally alibi-ed JvdS
on the night in question ... yes/no ... ?

GMAFB: freddy stayed home at Sloot dump/JvdS partied at CnC's:
I'm not as think as they dumb I am, LOL

I've never read the FP in depth re freddy's arrest/just the forum:
august 26/2005 FP posts now on my reading list
_ _ _ _ _

"TV reporting vs print/website reporting" =
american MSM felt like they were burned/purposely misled
during the confession/no confession weekend in june

there were some FP posts re that situation, IIRC ...
someone/checkme(?) said to expect that talking heads
would be saying things/reporting developments
that would not appear in print/on news outlet websites

which is another reason why those w/ TV access
would post what was being reported for those w/o TV access:
perhaps it would not be available elsewhere later on

that's why the old posts are invaluable:
some links don't work anymore and/or they never contained
what was being said on-air

hmmmm ... wondering now if there are posts referring to
"the" Charles Croes interview ...
which so many say was heavily edited/revised ... ?
_ _ _ _ _

"JvdS 'aced' his exam the next day" =
from anita's mouth to bondia's/Renfro's ear ...
a spelling test maybe/there weren't any exams the next day

the may/june newsletter which provided the schedule
of the various AP/SAT exams was available at the ISA site
for quite awhile/a long while ...
 
none were listed the first week after Natalee disappeared

all the major exams took place the following week ...
no doubt a big reason why JvdS wasn't arrested until june 9:
he missed graduation but was available for his exams

I posted at a now-defunct site late winter/early spring 2006
where a dutchy was yammering re the "aced his exams" thingy
and so I posted the ISA schedule ... backatcha!

kept asking him/her for a response re the exam schedule
and got nothing but ignored ...
would respond re other subjects but nada/zip/zero re the exams
_ _ _ _ _

I lost a huge document awhile back/32,000+ KB ...
the first few inches of text were intact
but the rest of the doc looked like this: /////////////////

tried to restore it/asked lotsa people about it ...
a tech-savvy friend said the doc was virus-corrupted
and that's why the text disappeared

I'm so frustrated/I could bite someone ...
I lost TONS of posts/links/etc re the topics above/much more ...
bummer, going by memory alone

 :cry:



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on July 10, 2008, 08:00:39 AM
Shouldn't someone be asking why all of a sudden there IS the connection to Ernesto that we have searched high and low for?  I must be the only person seeing this red flag here.  I think if Ernesto wanted a connection he would have made it long before now...I suspect we are being played. JMO of course.
  Maybe after three long years they are now feeling safe ::MonkeyConfused::


Blonde...Could be....but I tend to think that 'they' think they are much smarter than we are...IQ of 149, Ivy league qualified and all... ::MonkeyHaHa::

Finngirl.......thanks for the yard update....still wondering where the 2008 Chamber list is, how Lilian was connected to the Bubali S.C. in 2004, and now has her very own Foundation/School....Oh...and about the fellow from the Phillipines that lives at Montanja 62....


Yapperz...Thanks...nice to see you




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Rob on July 10, 2008, 08:54:13 AM
Mum, in 1988 or 1989 there was an earthquake in the Philippines. Some of the service workers on Aruba worked for companies that also had locations in the Philippines. When the Hyatt collapsed during the earthquake, many of those workers went to Aruba and began working at the Hyatt.

This seems to be how many Filipinos arrived on Aruba.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Rob on July 10, 2008, 09:04:17 AM
Mum, in 1988 or 1989 there was an earthquake in the Philippines. Some of the service workers on Aruba worked for companies that also had locations in the Philippines. When the Hyatt collapsed during the earthquake, many of those workers went to Aruba and began working at the Hyatt.

This seems to be how many Filipinos arrived on Aruba.

*correction*

it seem to have occurred in 1990
1990 Luzon Earthquake (Philippines)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gndFql5_i78

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1990_Luzon_earthquake
Baguio City, Benguet

Baguio City, a popular tourist destination, was one of the hardest hit with the number of deaths estimated at around 1000. Several private and public buildings were severely damaged or destroyed, many of which were hotels. One of the buildings destroyed was a five-star Hyatt Hotel; its 12 story section collapsed over the lobby area killing about 50 people. Nevada Hotel, another five-star hotel, was damaged beyond repair when the lower level collapsed, killing about 40 people.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C0CE7D71638F934A25754C0A966958260
<snipped>
Many Trapped in Hotels

In Baguio, a mountain resort city 120 miles north of Manila, at least 117 people were killed. About 1,000 people were reported trapped in the rubble of four luxury hotels, factories, a university building and several Government offices in the city. Many of those trapped were in the central wing of the Hyatt Terraces Hotel and at the Nevada Inn. Hundreds of workers were reported trapped in factories at the Baguio export-processing zone on the outskirts of the city.
<snipped>


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on July 10, 2008, 09:07:23 AM
Mum, in 1988 or 1989 there was an earthquake in the Philippines. Some of the service workers on Aruba worked for companies that also had locations in the Philippines. When the Hyatt collapsed during the earthquake, many of those workers went to Aruba and began working at the Hyatt.

This seems to be how many Filipinos arrived on Aruba.


Rob...Good Morning and Thanks for the info. But our friend's database has a lone one living at Montanja 62....Chamber list has Lilian there from 2005 through 2007...And that is the address of her Foundation/School....



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on July 10, 2008, 09:41:49 AM
Good Morning Monkeys,

I need help from lots of smart monkeys!  Last night, I discovered names of four Zedans from Venezuela on John Chemaly's Facebook.  Two hours later, they were gone.  The names were Rebeca Zedan, Jorge Zedan, Johnny Enrique Zedan, and Virginia A. Rahn Zedan.  These are similar to the four Zedan's on Sasha's Facebook - Natasha Zedan, Johnny Enrique Zedan, Vriginia A. Rahn Zedan, and Silvia Zedan.  Chemaly, Sasha, and John's mother (Glenda) are on the Facebooks of the Chemaly, Abudei, and Zedan families in Maracaibo.  They are connected to each other and we need to find out how.  Rebeca Zedan, Ilse Caroline Chemaly Abudei, Maribel Chemaly du Maratoya, and Virginia A. Rahn Zedan are big connections.  Somehow, Freddy Zedan appears to be related to John Chemaly.

http://www.facebook.com/s.php?q=ilse+caroline+chemaly+abudei&init=q
http://www.facebook.com/friends/?id=668840680
http://www.facebook.com/friends/?id=623976171
http://www.facebook.com/friends/?id=696465962
http://www.facebook.com/friends/?id=742645320
http://www.facebook.com/friends/?id=670011150
http://www.facebook.com/friends/?id=595530000
http://www.facebook.com/friends/?id=1310574381
http://www.facebook.com/friends/?id=724325175
http://www.facebook.com/s.php?q=erika+chemaly&init=q




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: vms on July 10, 2008, 10:02:37 AM
SS,

Take screen shots of anything you think might be interesting as soon as you see it, before you close the page. I learned the hard way. Ask Mum, I do it on everything now. I'm sure she's sick of it.  ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: klaasend on July 10, 2008, 10:17:50 AM
Good Morning Monkeys,

I need help from lots of smart monkeys!  Last night, I discovered names of four Zedans from Venezuela on John Chemaly's Facebook.  Two hours later, they were gone.  The names were Rebeca Zedan, Jorge Zedan, Johnny Enrique Zedan, and Virginia A. Rahn Zedan.  These are similar to the four Zedan's on Sasha's Facebook - Natasha Zedan, Johnny Enrique Zedan, Vriginia A. Rahn Zedan, and Silvia Zedan.  Chemaly, Sasha, and John's mother (Glenda) are on the Facebooks of the Chemaly, Abudei, and Zedan families in Maracaibo.  They are connected to each other and we need to find out how.  Rebeca Zedan, Ilse Caroline Chemaly Abudei, Maribel Chemaly du Maratoya, and Virginia A. Rahn Zedan are big connections.  Somehow, Freddy Zedan appears to be related to John Chemaly.

http://www.facebook.com/s.php?q=ilse+caroline+chemaly+abudei&init=q
http://www.facebook.com/friends/?id=668840680
http://www.facebook.com/friends/?id=623976171
http://www.facebook.com/friends/?id=696465962
http://www.facebook.com/friends/?id=742645320
http://www.facebook.com/friends/?id=670011150
http://www.facebook.com/friends/?id=595530000
http://www.facebook.com/friends/?id=1310574381
http://www.facebook.com/friends/?id=724325175
http://www.facebook.com/s.php?q=erika+chemaly&init=q


SS - from your first link:

Ilse Caroline Chemaly Abudei


(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub4/ChemalyChemaly1.jpg)

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub4/ChemalyChemaly2.jpg)

Zedan's listed as friends:

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub4/ChemalyZedan1.jpg)

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub4/ChemalyZedan2.jpg)

Johnny Zedan's friends:

SASHA
(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub4/JohnnySasha.jpg)

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub4/JohnnyZedanZedan.jpg)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: BUCKSHOT on July 10, 2008, 05:25:06 PM
Posted back near page 22 of this thread:

I am at 100% on Simian now.

Michel Clermon / Armin Solognier

_____________________________

Anyway to speak to these people (if still alive...)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on July 10, 2008, 07:20:28 PM
Good Morning Monkeys,

I need help from lots of smart monkeys!  Last night, I discovered names of four Zedans from Venezuela on John Chemaly's Facebook.  Two hours later, they were gone.  The names were Rebeca Zedan, Jorge Zedan, Johnny Enrique Zedan, and Virginia A. Rahn Zedan.  These are similar to the four Zedan's on Sasha's Facebook - Natasha Zedan, Johnny Enrique Zedan, Vriginia A. Rahn Zedan, and Silvia Zedan.  Chemaly, Sasha, and John's mother (Glenda) are on the Facebooks of the Chemaly, Abudei, and Zedan families in Maracaibo.  They are connected to each other and we need to find out how.  Rebeca Zedan, Ilse Caroline Chemaly Abudei, Maribel Chemaly du Maratoya, and Virginia A. Rahn Zedan are big connections.  Somehow, Freddy Zedan appears to be related to John Chemaly.

http://www.facebook.com/s.php?q=ilse+caroline+chemaly+abudei&init=q
http://www.facebook.com/friends/?id=668840680
http://www.facebook.com/friends/?id=623976171
http://www.facebook.com/friends/?id=696465962
http://www.facebook.com/friends/?id=742645320
http://www.facebook.com/friends/?id=670011150
http://www.facebook.com/friends/?id=595530000
http://www.facebook.com/friends/?id=1310574381
http://www.facebook.com/friends/?id=724325175
http://www.facebook.com/s.php?q=erika+chemaly&init=q


SS - from your first link:

Ilse Caroline Chemaly Abudei


(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub4/ChemalyChemaly1.jpg)

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub4/ChemalyChemaly2.jpg)

Zedan's listed as friends:

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub4/ChemalyZedan1.jpg)

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub4/ChemalyZedan2.jpg)

Johnny Zedan's friends:

SASHA
(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub4/JohnnySasha.jpg)

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub4/JohnnyZedanZedan.jpg)



Thanks for the help, Klaas.  I don't know how to do screen shots or even if my computer can do it.  I did do a lot of copy and paste into a Word file when I realized what was happening.  It's not easy to follow though.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: finngirl on July 10, 2008, 08:19:32 PM

as for reading FP posts re freddy's arrest:
scratch that ... they don't exist

were they removed?

there are about 7 robo posts
and the notice: "comments closed"

WTF?




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: vms on July 10, 2008, 09:30:31 PM
Found these. Not sure that they even matter though since it was 2004...

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a398/vms58/Freddyshouse.jpg)

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a398/vms58/freddyshouse2.jpg)

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a398/vms58/freddyshouse3.jpg)

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a398/vms58/freddyshouse4.jpg)

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a398/vms58/Freddyshouse5.jpg)

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a398/vms58/Freddyshouse6.jpg)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on July 10, 2008, 10:12:53 PM
Zedan/Chemaly


My map of friends and their friends: 
  Ilse Chemaly  Ilse Caroline Chemaly Abudei
   Humberto Amado
    Tico
   Jane Morillo
    Tico
   Milton Chaves
    Tico
   Richard Cooper
    Tico
   Vicky Alvaradao
   Juan Carlos Abudei
   Nayibe Cohen
   America Beck
   Virginia Baldini
   Scott Marsh
   William Ancker
   Andres De Castro
   Alfonso Ibañes
   Rebeca Zedan  possible Freddy aunt or grandmother
   Veronica de Chemaly
   Veronica Chemaly
   Erika Chemaly  Erika Cristina Chemaly from Aruba   
   Glenda Chemaly  mother of John Chemaly
   Isabella Moncada
   Ingrid Moncada
   Astrid Chemaly
   Maribel Chemaly   Maribel Chemaly de Maratoya
   Majdi Bushnaq
   Joseph Moussa
   Leonardo De Castro
   Evelyn Melendez
   Ivette Machado
   Bertila Fonseca
   Pat Chemaly
   Carla Chemaly

Ilse Caroline Chemaly - Mother of a 16 year old beautifil boy. Married to a good man, an artist. Live in Venezuela, eager to visit my roots Lebanon and Palestine. Daughter of Rosa Abudei and Francois Nagib Chemaly. I have a brother and three sisters, the youngest passed away in 1998 in Atlanta, Georgia. A beautiful family.
Cevaz
Maracaibo, Zulia, Venezuela
Batroun - 1958
Record Created on September 11th, 2007

http://www.leb.org/v3/display/52316/venezuela/ilse-chemaly/


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on July 10, 2008, 10:15:57 PM
http://www.geni.com/profile/index/4122113739590025569

Guillermo Zedan (deceased)
Death:   (Date and location unknown)
Immediate Family:    Husband of BlancaFather of Guillermo, Ana, Norma, Rebeca and Jorge
Added by:   Ilse Chemaly Abudei on October 13, 2007


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: vms on July 10, 2008, 10:34:07 PM
:lol:

Bubali Sport Club (http://bubalisportclub.wetpaint.com/page/Old+Pictures)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on July 10, 2008, 11:18:58 PM
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=3029.720

On the thread above, Rob posted (today) two pics of Deepak's car with different rims, different wheels and different mirrors!  Great find ROB! 

Also discussed was the swapping out of Deepak's car, the blood vs. chocolate, ants in the car, and Automotive Enterprises
http://scaredmonkeys.com/2006/08/24/natalee-holloway-investigation-of-osman-august-6-2005-statement/ (osman =owner of AE). 

I brought this info over to this CODETALKER thread because maybe 'the other car' and the 'keys to the car' have something to do with this car swapping. Who picked sporter up (IN A CAR) for the party, and then who brought the sporter home, (IN A CAR) therein lies the 3rd act. Two cars. And how many Sloot cars were investigated?

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 11:23 pm
Who took the boy to the party? Who took him home? Therein lies the third act. Look up the Simian’s posts from days ago.

WAS THIS PROSE ABOUT THE CAR THAT WAS SWAPPED? THAT THE CAR DOOR NEVER EXISTED???
AND WHO THE HECK IS 'HIS LORDSHIP'???

WAS THE 'KEY FOUND IN THE CAR' THE ACTUAL CAR KEY, OR THE BLOOD EVIDENCE THAT WAS SWAPPED OUT WITH CHOCOLATE?

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:33 pm
Simian, His Lordship did not bring the key found in the car, it did not exist. The arawaks can’t open the door . Hope lies with the cowboys, but the posse was too late. Eden is still distant.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:26 pm
Simian, his lordship did not bring the expected key. thedoor never existed. Eden is distant

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:40 pm
The key does not exist. The Arawaks knew Babylonian involvement would prove futile. That is why the cowboys left the fort and are searching with the Indians.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:30 pm
Simian, his lordship did not bring the key for the Arawaks. So it will remain “cowboys and indians”. The posse was too late.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:18 pm
Simian, why was the key from the Babylons Palace not used to open the Sumerians Door ? They have become famished and Eden is beckoning….

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:12 pm
Cowboys must behave in Indian territory. The arawaks need pemmican, they have been without wampum, 1 Moon. The Arawaks keep the singing card. One singing Babylonian and two Hindu chanters are enough. His lordships presence guarantees a trio. The key to edens door did not exist. The refrain has already begun.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 6:13 pm
His lordship did not bring the key, it does not exist. doors to eden remain closed. The arawaks hold the singing cards. They have the babylonian and 2 shivas. But the other card is dirty. Even if you play cards in the house of babylon as an arawak, you still have DirtyHand. If DirtyHand comes out of hiding, Babylon will fall and the cowboys will circle the wagons. DirtyHand can destroy the Arawaks and Babylon. Better to prepare the sacrifice quickly so the cowboys go home ….without the loot

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:34 pm
the struggle between the babylonians and the arawaks still remains hidden. the arawaks awaited the key. his lordship said no. the door to eden remains closed. they are preparing the fire.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:37 pm
DirtyHand is not a child of Babylon. He holds the real key. The Arawaks fear his exposure. The house of babylon would tumble down on the teepees of the Arawaks. DirtyHand knows the cowboys will leave lootless. He can break the alibi.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:56 pm
The Simian knows his Lordship did not have a key to open the door to eden. The answer lies with the Arawak Nation.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 11:01 pm
If the door to eden is to be opened with that key, it will be tomorrow or forever remained closed

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 11:12 pm
Even Flying Birds Sing. If the key does not arrive tomorrow, that door to Eden will remain closed I must feed the messengers.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on July 10, 2008, 11:30:26 PM
Just dawned on me ...  LOL

The Noble Son of the Sun Breaking Through...

http://www.bondia.com/



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on July 10, 2008, 11:39:04 PM
Just dawned on me ...  LOL

The Noble Son of the Sun Breaking Through...

http://www.bondia.com/






Mum, you are brilliant.  Bon Dia = John Chemaly, Jr.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on July 10, 2008, 11:42:09 PM
Just dawned on me ...  LOL

The Noble Son of the Sun Breaking Through...

http://www.bondia.com/




Did you see the Logo!!!!

 ::MonkeyDance::




Mum, you are brilliant.  Bon Dia = John Chemaly, Jr.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: klaasend on July 11, 2008, 01:00:11 AM

as for reading FP posts re freddy's arrest:
scratch that ... they don't exist

were they removed?

there are about 7 robo posts
and the notice: "comments closed"

WTF?




The front page comments weren't removed but were lost in a software upgrade that was done about 2 years ago.  It was an upgrade to the spam software that ended up overwriting everything.  Long story and Dugga wasn't around at the time although Dugga did try to fix the problem once it was realized, to no avail.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on July 11, 2008, 01:05:23 AM

as for reading FP posts re freddy's arrest:
scratch that ... they don't exist

were they removed?

there are about 7 robo posts
and the notice: "comments closed"

WTF?


Finn...These were the ones that were lost!  We will have to go to RWV and read!  If I can find the right page I will post the link!

Thanks klaas!





Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: finngirl on July 11, 2008, 02:50:25 AM

klaas: thanks for the response
but jeez, what a bummer

Mum: found this link/reading now

http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2005/08/page/5/

same comments we've made lately
re difficulty w/ how the names work/etc

re bon dia = chemaly ...
is that in reference to newspaper or posting nic?

I'm lost again, obviously  :roll:



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Rob on July 11, 2008, 07:48:13 AM
Just dawned on me ...  LOL

The Noble Son of the Sun Breaking Through...

http://www.bondia.com/



Good One Mum... that is it fer sure.

Bon Dia - Good Day / Morning - said in the morning. This could be said at any point of the day, but it usually only said in the morning as other terms are applied to the rest of the day.

Bon Tardi - Good Afternoon - said after mid day.

Bon Nochi - Good Night - said after dinner, dark or before bed.

Breaking Sun = Morning Sun.

Noble Son of Breaking Sun = John Chemaly Jr.

Good job Mum, that is definitely it. I'm convinced you are right.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on July 11, 2008, 08:29:10 AM

klaas: thanks for the response
but jeez, what a bummer

Mum: found this link/reading now

http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2005/08/page/5/

same comments we've made lately
re difficulty w/ how the names work/etc

re bon dia = chemaly ...
is that in reference to newspaper or posting nic?

I'm lost again, obviously  :roll:




Finn...Thanks...So this is all we have left from the FP?...Thanks for saving it! Thanks for the link...will look around at some other Forums...looking for the Aruban agenda...


http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2768.0

Re: We Forgot We Knew « Reply #7 on: April 03, 2008, 07:29:49 AM »   
 
Fri Aug 26, 2005



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on July 11, 2008, 08:31:07 AM
Just dawned on me ...  LOL

The Noble Son of the Sun Breaking Through...

http://www.bondia.com/



Good One Mum... that is it fer sure.

Bon Dia - Good Day / Morning - said in the morning. This could be said at any point of the day, but it usually only said in the morning as other terms are applied to the rest of the day.

Bon Tardi - Good Afternoon - said after mid day.

Bon Nochi - Good Night - said after dinner, dark or before bed.

Breaking Sun = Morning Sun.

Noble Son of Breaking Sun = John Chemaly Jr.

Good job Mum, that is definitely it. I'm convinced you are right.




Thanks Rob and Good Morning...Lala's keeps telling us it is not that difficult.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on July 11, 2008, 08:37:28 AM
Posted back near page 22 of this thread:

I am at 100% on Simian now.

Michel Clermon / Armin Solognier

_____________________________

Anyway to speak to these people (if still alive...)


Hi Buckshot...nice to see you here...

Armin/Simian/Merian/Michel is still alive and kicking...LOL

Here is where the conversation started in thread 3, where he was discovered...LOL...I think there are posts about through page 41.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2787.440


Reply #442 on: April 21, 2008, 08:39:55 AM »


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: can on July 11, 2008, 09:13:16 AM
Just dawned on me ...  LOL

The Noble Son of the Sun Breaking Through...

http://www.bondia.com/


Morning Monkeys!
I'm not up on shango but, the first thing that came to my mind with the above phrase is:

The Noble Son of the Sun Breaking through =
The Noble Son of the Don (dawn)

Not sure if this makes any sense or fits in any way.  May be too simplistic.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: vms on July 11, 2008, 10:26:05 AM
Hi can & Buckshot. Glad to see you both over here. :)




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: vms on July 11, 2008, 10:31:38 AM
Noticed these while looking around the chamber...

Mrs. Dompig
CHITA'S LOTERY
http://www.arubachamber.com/registry/registry_result.afp?KeyValue=35098


Boeti
NAAR WATERSPORTS

http://www.arubachamber.com/registry/registry_result.afp?KeyValue=6130


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on July 11, 2008, 10:31:44 AM
Hi can & Buckshot. Glad to see you both over here. :)





Hi can...nice to see you!

Up early for being here late last night...vms


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: vms on July 11, 2008, 10:37:16 AM
Hi can & Buckshot. Glad to see you both over here. :)





Hi can...nice to see you!

Up early for being here late last night...vms

Yes we are!  ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: can on July 11, 2008, 10:57:12 AM
Hi can & Buckshot. Glad to see you both over here. :)





Hi can...nice to see you!

Up early for being here late last night...vms

Yes we are!  ::MonkeyHaHa::
Hi back to you vms and MuminO!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Helen Back on July 11, 2008, 01:44:49 PM
Just dawned on me ...  LOL

The Noble Son of the Sun Breaking Through...

http://www.bondia.com/



Good One Mum... that is it fer sure.

Bon Dia - Good Day / Morning - said in the morning. This could be said at any point of the day, but it usually only said in the morning as other terms are applied to the rest of the day.

Bon Tardi - Good Afternoon - said after mid day.

Bon Nochi - Good Night - said after dinner, dark or before bed.

Breaking Sun = Morning Sun.

Noble Son of Breaking Sun = John Chemaly Jr.

Good job Mum, that is definitely it. I'm convinced you are right.

[/color]


Thanks Rob and Good Morning...Lala's keeps telling us it is not that difficult.

Good job, Mum.  I'm convinced as well that you are dead on.  It's so funny every time I would read that passage, Noble Son of Sun breaking through....and we discussed flags etc.  I kept thinking "Ive seen a Sun somewhere" ..........Can't believe it was on that RAG Bon Dia.  But it was, that's where I saw it!

Good job, MUM!

 ::MonkeyWink::





Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Rob on July 11, 2008, 02:42:25 PM
Mum, let's not forget (not that you did) but this place is called Caribbean Palm Beach (IIRC), and partially owned by the Chemaly's. That was found by Pita or vms.

(http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p149/Morgan2112_2006/CARIBBEANPALMBEACH3.jpg)

(http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p149/Morgan2112_2006/CARIBBEANPALMBEACH4.jpg)

(http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p149/Morgan2112_2006/CARIBBEANPALMBEACH6.jpg)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Rob on July 11, 2008, 02:53:55 PM
if you would all please re-look at the maps above - you will certainly see that this scenario points directly to the Gottenbos. As you can see the suspects have left the Matty Apartments or the Caribbean Palm Beach and have departed for the racquet club and have been spotted by the gardener @ 2:30 - 3 am.I believe it would be 3 am and not 2:30am.

The suspects are awaiting Koen or Alexander Gottenbos to arrive with the boat or the keys to the boat. Most likely just the keys as described by the guy that that wrote the book about Deepak (Mind-Hunter). They can not quite yet take the risk of moving Natalee down to the beach yet, due to the observation of the fisherman or others who might see them. I now believe based on this scenario (only) that Natalee was deceased by 3 am and disposed of shortly there after. Natalee was most likely in the backseat of the car or in the truck where blood turned into rust from a barrel.

As the suspects are awaiting Koen, he will be arriving from the North in Malmok. His drive to this area is roughly 8-12 minutes max. More likely 8. Koen then meets the suspects - at the beach area somewhere in the vicinity north of the fisherman's huts. It could be that he went and got the boat docked at the Marriott and then departed north to the area where the suspects where waiting. This could even include Deepak's peeing comment at Arashi.

- jmo -

but something to think about.
 



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Rob on July 11, 2008, 03:08:01 PM
so, how did Satish get home?

he used Freddy's car or the car that Freddy used to get to the Matty Apartments or the Caribbean Palm Beach. Not everyone could fit in Deepak's Honda with Joran and Natalee in the back seat. Freddy, Deepak and Joran were in the Honda when spotted by the gardener. Satish began the alibi at 2:20 am or so, and that is more likely 3:20 am as the clocks were tampered with. The clock was changed to allow Satish an alibi. He could not have been at the Matty Apartment or the Caribbean Palm Beach and at home at the same time.

Deepak upon arrival home discovered that and changed the clock. Deepak then used SMS to Chat up John Charles Croes and to establish an alibi for himself.

So, to summarize. The suspects and Natalee did stop at the Sloots @ 1:40 am (that is true), and they could have gone in but did not stay there long (as possibly described by Beth - she said she knew Natalee was there, but never said that was where the assault took place) and they proceeded to the Matty Apartments or the Caribbean Palm Beach.

again, this is all just my opinion based on the sighting of the gardener and the fact the the suspect travel north.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on July 11, 2008, 03:25:02 PM
Rob - did you catch the Zedan/Chemaly family link?  Go back a few pages.  I think Freddy and John are cousins.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on July 11, 2008, 03:28:28 PM
Rob....Thanks...I will take a good look at it all. What about Sander, you don't think it could have been him? I am recalling an additional arrest in the Netherlands when Guido was taken it and the comments a little while back, by one of our Dutch posters that he was kicked of the soccer team, because of this?   TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Rob on July 11, 2008, 04:47:11 PM
Rob - did you catch the Zedan/Chemaly family link?  Go back a few pages.  I think Freddy and John are cousins.

yes ma'am I did catch it... believe it or not - it actually made sense to me  ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Rob on July 11, 2008, 04:51:55 PM
Rob....Thanks...I will take a good look at it all. What about Sander, you don't think it could have been him? I am recalling an additional arrest in the Netherlands when Guido was taken it and the comments a little while back, by one of our Dutch posters that he was kicked of the soccer team, because of this?   TIA

Mum, he fits in somewhere - eventually we'll find out where. 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on July 11, 2008, 06:02:41 PM
Rob....Thanks...I will take a good look at it all. What about Sander, you don't think it could have been him? I am recalling an additional arrest in the Netherlands when Guido was taken it and the comments a little while back, by one of our Dutch posters that he was kicked of the soccer team, because of this?   TIA

Mum, he fits in somewhere - eventually we'll find out where. 

Was Sander, Koens bro, the kid in the pic with the belt around his neck and Joran holding the other belt end like a 'slave'? That pic was taken at a room inside the Marriott in Aruba. The infamous belt with the rectangular notches - the same one Joran had around his waste in a VZ pic, and the same one found on the beach but discarded just like the duct tape (I would love to see that surfer get that duct tape out of his long wet straggly hair one of these days - imho after doing it a few times he'd have no hair left on his head!)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on July 11, 2008, 06:06:55 PM
  For Mum.....


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on July 11, 2008, 06:30:37 PM
Now doesn't this look like such a nice family......

Missing Teen
In this photo released by the Web site Pancayente.com, Paul van der Sloot, left, his wife Anita, center, and son Joran pose in this undated 2005 picture. Paul was detained for three days in connection with Holloway's disappearance.
(www.pancayente.com/AP Photo)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on July 11, 2008, 06:35:33 PM
This belongs with the previous post.

http://a.abcnews.com/GMA/LegalCenter/popup?id=837031&contentIndex=1&page=10&start=false


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on July 11, 2008, 06:49:32 PM
Rob....Thanks...I will take a good look at it all. What about Sander, you don't think it could have been him? I am recalling an additional arrest in the Netherlands when Guido was taken it and the comments a little while back, by one of our Dutch posters that he was kicked of the soccer team, because of this?   TIA

Mum, he fits in somewhere - eventually we'll find out where. 

Was Sander, Koens bro, the kid in the pic with the belt around his neck and Joran holding the other belt end like a 'slave'? That pic was taken at a room inside the Marriott in Aruba. The infamous belt with the rectangular notches - the same one Joran had around his waste in a VZ pic, and the same one found on the beach but discarded just like the duct tape (I would love to see that surfer get that duct tape out of his long wet straggly hair one of these days - imho after doing it a few times he'd have no hair left on his head!)

Some pics of Koen and Joran and what I think is Sander w/Joran's belt around his neck:

(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b37/roirogers/aru-baymovies/graypants.jpg)

(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b37/roirogers/aru-baymovies/joran_comparison.jpg)

Why are all their clothes draped on the chair?

(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b37/roirogers/aru-baymovies/boywithbeltaroundneck0ya.jpg)
 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: sirensong on July 11, 2008, 07:45:40 PM
Hi everyone!  I was looking around and found Rudy Croes band site.  Have you seen this before?  If so, sorry to post it again.  Just thought it was interesting.......poison notes, follow the music etc.

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=283019688


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Blonde on July 11, 2008, 08:31:37 PM
I was always led to believe it was Sander
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/The%20pimps/jorancomparison11sr-1.jpg)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: vms on July 11, 2008, 08:33:00 PM
Poochy,

IIRC, Michael is the name of the kid with the belt around his neck.


sirensong,

I saw that some time ago but didn't save it, so thanks.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Blonde on July 11, 2008, 08:35:18 PM
Was Sander, Koens bro, yes

Klaas just posted Joran and Michael:
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/The%20pimps/25839767_e4d5579a4b.jpg)
Daddy in the  back seat.
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/Koen/61169380_0ddd95e173_m.jpg)

{{edit to add right name}}


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Blonde on July 11, 2008, 08:37:01 PM
Poochy,

IIRC, Michael is the name of the kid with the belt around his neck.


sirensong,

I saw that some time ago but didn't save it, so thanks.

SSOO it not Sander it's Michael ??? do you know his last name VMS


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: vms on July 11, 2008, 08:44:55 PM
Poochy,

IIRC, Michael is the name of the kid with the belt around his neck.


sirensong,

I saw that some time ago but didn't save it, so thanks.

SSOO it not Sander it's Michael ??? do you know his last name VMS

Trying to think, Blonde. Maybe my brain will kick in eventually.  ::MonkeyConfused::
I believe your first pic above is also Michael.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: vms on July 11, 2008, 08:57:14 PM
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a398/vms58/beltpic.jpg)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Blonde on July 11, 2008, 08:57:50 PM
Yes ,I fixed it.   ::MonkeyCool::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on July 11, 2008, 09:10:57 PM
Who is Michael and who is Sander? Anybody know?


(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b37/roirogers/13194477P7367598026.jpg) (http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b37/roirogers/38478704_1ccaaddfe8_m.jpg) (http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b37/roirogers/75282067_1f90f575d8_m.jpg)

In this pic below I recognize: Koen, Joran, his lil bro, Freddie, Jaime. Who are the others?

(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b37/roirogers/the_entire_2crew.jpg)

If Koen is in the light blue shirt in the above pic, is this the same guy Koen in the pic below? With Sander?

(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b37/roirogers/gottenbospic.jpg)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: vms on July 11, 2008, 09:19:27 PM
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a398/vms58/MichaelPochettino.jpg)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: vms on July 11, 2008, 09:30:43 PM
Poochy,

Sander is the one in the red shirt in the first pic and with the red shirt around his neck in the next two.

Yes to Koen in the blue shirt and with Sander on the airplane. Sander is also in the very back in the pic with Koen in blue, IIRC.

Can't see that well, not on my regular computer.  :ncool:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: klaasend on July 11, 2008, 09:47:46 PM
(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/klaasend/AndreSantos2.jpg)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Blonde on July 11, 2008, 09:53:03 PM
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/Koen/61169380_0ddd95e173_m.jpg)

This is Koen, Sanders ,and Dad in the back seat


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Kermit on July 11, 2008, 10:40:39 PM
boy with belt around his neck is Sander Gottenbro - he wears K-Swiss tennis shoes.

(http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/7977/1351/1600/Joran%20choking%20kid2.0.jpg)
(http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/7204/sandersblackbelt9hd.jpg)

Joran wears a black belt
(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d110/Southern_belle1960/belt.jpg)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Kermit on July 11, 2008, 10:42:30 PM
boy with belt around his neck is Sander Gottenbro - he wears K-Swiss tennis shoes.


(http://img78.imageshack.us/img78/3816/image498zr2.jpg)

(http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/7204/sandersblackbelt9hd.jpg)

Joran wears a black belt
(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d110/Southern_belle1960/belt.jpg)



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Kermit on July 11, 2008, 10:45:54 PM
(http://img78.imageshack.us/img78/3816/image498zr2.jpg)

Michael and drunk I think it's Larrissa, same girl Joran took to Amazonia Restaurant next to McDonalds



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Kermit on July 11, 2008, 10:48:09 PM
(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b37/roirogers/13194477P7367598026.jpg)

Michael, Larissa and Joran



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Kermit on July 11, 2008, 10:48:39 PM
(http://img78.imageshack.us/img78/3816/image498zr2.jpg)

Michael and drunk I think it's Larrissa, same girl Joran took to Amazonia Restaurant next to McDonalds



Sorry wrong pic got inserted here.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Kermit on July 11, 2008, 10:49:43 PM
Sorry about the mess up with the pictures.
Hope it helps ya'll.





Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: finngirl on July 11, 2008, 11:43:54 PM

(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/The%20pimps/25839767_e4d5579a4b.jpg) (http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a398/vms58/MichaelPochettino.jpg)

(http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/7204/sandersblackbelt9hd.jpg)
mike on left in blue checked shirt

(http://img78.imageshack.us/img78/3816/image498zr2.jpg)
mike w/ belt


_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _



these pix all from the same night:

(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/klaasend/AndreSantos2.jpg)
all names correct

(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b37/roirogers/75282067_1f90f575d8_m.jpg)
nearly the same lineup in this photo

(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b37/roirogers/13194477P7367598026.jpg)
sander/larissa/joran



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Pita on July 11, 2008, 11:53:48 PM

(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/The%20pimps/25839767_e4d5579a4b.jpg) (http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a398/vms58/MichaelPochettino.jpg)

(http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/7204/sandersblackbelt9hd.jpg)
mike on left in blue checked shirt

(http://img78.imageshack.us/img78/3816/image498zr2.jpg)
mike w/ belt


_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _



these pix all from the same night:

(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/klaasend/AndreSantos2.jpg)
all names correct

(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b37/roirogers/75282067_1f90f575d8_m.jpg)
nearly the same lineup in this photo

(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b37/roirogers/13194477P7367598026.jpg)
sander/larissa/joran



These pictures are labeled correctly.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: finngirl on July 12, 2008, 01:47:09 AM

re poofed FP around time of freddy's arrest:
pretty slim pickings over at RWV ...
but I copied a few posts in the
"things we forgot we knew" thread



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: sirensong on July 12, 2008, 02:40:09 AM

(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/The%20pimps/25839767_e4d5579a4b.jpg) (http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a398/vms58/MichaelPochettino.jpg)

(http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/7204/sandersblackbelt9hd.jpg)
mike on left in blue checked shirt

(http://img78.imageshack.us/img78/3816/image498zr2.jpg)
mike w/ belt


_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _



these pix all from the same night:

(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/klaasend/AndreSantos2.jpg)
all names correct

(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b37/roirogers/75282067_1f90f575d8_m.jpg)
nearly the same lineup in this photo

(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b37/roirogers/13194477P7367598026.jpg)
sander/larissa/joran



The pic with the Marlboro sign in the back shows Saunder wearing that brown belt and rectangle holes.  Who is that guy with the black hair and wiskers in the back?  Kinda looks like Renfros husband/boyfriend.  He looks too much older than all the others.







Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Buckeye on July 12, 2008, 05:17:25 AM
Somewhere, there is a night shot of two guys, standing in front of a white pickup, labeled bangbuss.  I think the guy on the right might be Michael.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on July 12, 2008, 07:51:14 AM
Does anyone know the name of Renfro's boyfriend and if he was the boyfriend that she would have had back in 2005 or 2003?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: vms on July 12, 2008, 08:49:22 AM
Does anyone know the name of Renfro's boyfriend and if he was the boyfriend that she would have had back in 2005 or 2003?
I believe the name is Patrick Boset. I remember hearing that the relationship ended. I don't know who her current boyfriend is or if she has one...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: vms on July 12, 2008, 08:51:17 AM
Sander


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on July 12, 2008, 09:19:23 AM

(http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/7204/sandersblackbelt9hd.jpg)
mike on left in blue checked shirt


The pic with the Marlboro sign in the back shows Saunder wearing that brown belt and rectangle holes.  Who is that guy with the black hair and wiskers in the back?  Kinda looks like Renfros husband/boyfriend.  He looks too much older than all the others.


I always thought that was MR PINK, Paul Braugh. And that the pic was taken in VZ.

How come this is the first I've heard of the name "Michael Pochettino" ??  Where the heck have I been!

Who's the dude on the very right?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on July 12, 2008, 09:29:39 AM
Somewhere, there is a night shot of two guys, standing in front of a white pickup, labeled bangbuss.  I think the guy on the right might be Michael.

I can't believe it - never heard of this guy Michael Pochettino who appears to share Joran's love of playing "master-slave" as in the belt pic. Anybody know anything about him? If his belt was found on the beach (then unfortunately discarded by ALE because they said it was not evidence --too old of a belt' (what idiotz)) , then why the focus on Koen and Sander and not this guy? 

Whenever I see that pic of Joran and Michael and the belt around his neck I get the chills. It reminds me of the preppy murderer Robert Chambers twisting the head off of the doll in a private video, simulating his murder 'accident'. They both had that glaring, possessed look in their eyes. Like a reinactment of what they did to Natalee. Sickening.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: vms on July 12, 2008, 09:40:19 AM

(http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/7204/sandersblackbelt9hd.jpg)
mike on left in blue checked shirt


The pic with the Marlboro sign in the back shows Saunder wearing that brown belt and rectangle holes.  Who is that guy with the black hair and wiskers in the back?  Kinda looks like Renfros husband/boyfriend.  He looks too much older than all the others.


I always thought that was MR PINK, Paul Braugh. And that the pic was taken in VZ.

How come this is the first I've heard of the name "Michael Pochettino" ??  Where the heck have I been!

Who's the dude on the very right?

The pic was taken in Venezuela when the ISA students participated in the Model United Nations program. I don't know how it got started that the guy in the back was Paul Brough. Looks nothing like him, IMO. I don't know who the guy on the right is. Sorry...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on July 12, 2008, 09:42:02 AM
From the archives...

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2083.msg274368#msg274368


Reply #644 on: August 29, 2007, 06:24:41 PM » Kermit

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote from: Pita on August 29, 2007, 05:26:18 PM
ABC TODAY   
 
Business address SALINA CERCA 39-H, NOORD 
Legal form  LIMITED LIABILITY COMPANY 
Name of the company  MEDIAMAX ARUBA N.V. 
Statutory seat  ARUBA 
Date of incorporation  14 MAY 2002 
     
Main branch: MEDIAMAX ARUBA N.V. registered under number 28973
located at CAYA G.F. (BETICO) CROES 9, ORANJESTAD OOST 
NOT IN POSSESION OF A BUSINESS ESTABLISHMENT LICENCE 
   
DIRECTORS - AUTHORIZED PERSONS AND CORPORATE BODIES - SUPERVISORY BOARD: 
 
BOSET, PATRICK JOHN; 
Residing in  PARADERA 35, PARADERA, ARUBA 
Born in  THE NETHERLANDS, GOIRLE on 28 DECEMBER 1967 
Nationality  DUTCH 
Position  MANAGING DIRECTOR 
Effective  14 MAY 2002 
Authority  FULL 
   
RENFRO, JULIA CHRISTINE; 
Residing in  SALINA CERCA 39-H, NOORD, ARUBA 
Born in  U.S.A., CALIFORNIE on 30 AUGUST 1966 
Nationality  AMERICAN 
Position  PROXY A W/T "ASST. MANAGER" 
Effective  27 JUNE 2007 
Authority  FULL 




Mediamax Aruba N.V. Director Patrick J. Boset Editor Felix J. Schoonbeek Layout & Design Linda van der Windt Sales Marlene Purcell Felix J. Schoonbeek ...
www.leconcierge.mediamaxaruba.com/www/news.htm
(link removed)
MediaMax Aruba inaugurates the first information kiosk!
The very first interactive digital information kiosk is placed at the Marriott
MediaMax Aruba recently inaugurated the first information kiosk in the lobby of the Aruba Marriott Resort & Stellaris Casino, right next to the front desk, where it can't be missed.
Go have a look and try the kiosk to familiarize yourself with Aruba's fastest, easiest and coolest way to acquire information about the hotel, the island of Aruba, and the various companies providing their services such as: car rentals, real estate, recreational activities, restaurants & bars, nightlife and much more.
Using high quality pictures and streaming video, the system will provide you with valuable information about the listed companies.
Some companies even provide discount coupons, which can be printed out.
The printout can also serve as a reference to make your reservation; the coupon will have the name and telephone number of the selected company, which can be used to make a reservation.
Stay tuned for the next locations!!
http://tinyurl.com/3bvmdu


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Establishment Aruba Hilton Hotel Casablanca Resort www pattty patty patty .... media Net I changed from medianet unlimited to mediamax and mail Signup www. ...
26cpartypokercom.blogspot.com/

This blog is now dedicated to correcting the mis- information being distributed by Dan Riehl. IMHO and research, Dan is fed his information from Julia Renfro of Aruba-Today a special friend of the VanDerSloot family. It is no surprise that they are trying to turn public opinion into believing that Joran is innocent and Natalee is at least partially to blame for her own demise with the old SODDI defense. Julia and her staff contacted many blogs and forum owners immediately to be an inside source.
http://ihoppers.blogspot.com/
 
 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on July 12, 2008, 10:01:11 AM

Who is the guy between Andre and Joran?  I always thought it was Koen but it looks like an older Michael. Anybody know? 

(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b37/roirogers/75282067_1f90f575d8_m.jpg) (http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a398/vms58/MichaelPochettino.jpg) (http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/Koen/61169380_0ddd95e173_m.jpg)
 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: vms on July 12, 2008, 10:16:18 AM
ARUBA WEEKLY/LE CONCIERGE
http://www.arubachamber.com/registry/registry_result.afp?KeyValue=29706

DELTA REAL ESTATE N.V.
http://www.arubachamber.com/registry/registry_result.afp?KeyValue=22605

BOSET-SANROMA BEHEER N.V.
http://www.arubachamber.com/registry/registry_result.afp?KeyValue=25616

CALA ROMANA N.V.
http://www.arubachamber.com/registry/registry_result.afp?KeyValue=26029


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: vms on July 12, 2008, 10:17:33 AM

Who is the guy between Andre and Joran?  I always thought it was Koen but it looks like an older Michael. Anybody know? 

(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b37/roirogers/75282067_1f90f575d8_m.jpg) (http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a398/vms58/MichaelPochettino.jpg) (http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/Koen/61169380_0ddd95e173_m.jpg)
 

You were right. It is Koen.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on July 12, 2008, 11:11:19 AM
Does anyone know who the girl in the front is, wearing the blue dress?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: vms on July 12, 2008, 11:51:31 AM
Does anyone know who the girl in the front is, wearing the blue dress?
Larissa Bermudez


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Blonde on July 12, 2008, 01:40:14 PM
Does anyone know the name of Renfro's boyfriend and if he was the boyfriend that she would have had back in 2005 or 2003?
I believe the name is Patrick Boset. I remember hearing that the relationship ended. I don't know who her current boyfriend is or if she has one...

He's very nice looking.

(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/Aruba%20Reporters%20Lawyers/Julia4.jpg)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on July 12, 2008, 05:48:35 PM
 ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Blonde on July 12, 2008, 07:20:15 PM
Poochy
This is Mr Pink
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/People%20of%20Intrest/MrPink.jpg)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Kermit on July 12, 2008, 07:27:43 PM
(http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/8993/joranandlarissayn5.jpg)

(http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/141/joranandlarissa2zn9.jpg)

(http://img353.imageshack.us/img353/7749/sander5fy1.jpg)
Sander

(http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/4466/michaelgw4.jpg)
MICHAEL


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Pita on July 12, 2008, 08:47:36 PM
Somewhere, there is a night shot of two guys, standing in front of a white pickup, labeled bangbuss.  I think the guy on the right might be Michael.

(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m153/CMPM/DavidWeverBangBus.jpg)

David Wever on right


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Pita on July 12, 2008, 08:58:27 PM
Somewhere, there is a night shot of two guys, standing in front of a white pickup, labeled bangbuss.  I think the guy on the right might be Michael.

(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m153/CMPM/DavidWeverBangBus.jpg)

David Wever on right

This caption goes with the picture: Bruce on left, David Wever on right

bruce y ami ,chill dilanti royal plaza cu mi Bang Buss





Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: sharon on July 13, 2008, 08:54:24 AM
Just a quick drive by from me  ::MonkeyHaHa::

I've tried to see what I can come up with for Chemaly in Miami -- and other than the 'myspace' stuff -- this is it  ::MonkeyWaa::

I don't even know if this is the correct Chemaly family -- but I KNOW we have super detectives here.....

Any of the 'subscriptions' I have online are for 'public companies' and strangely -- this one is a private company.  ::MonkeyConfused::

ANYONE???? (sorry if already discussed)



Company Profile
Updated: 08-JUL-08

Chemaly and Sons Inc.
Private Company, Headquarters Location
268 NE 68th St., Miami, FL, United States
(305)751-3353,

Primary SIC: Bottled & Canned Soft Drinks, Primary NAICS: Soft Drink Manufacturing
Description: Manufacturing: Bottled & Canned Soft Drinks




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: klaasend on July 13, 2008, 12:02:14 PM
(http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/8993/joranandlarissayn5.jpg)

(http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/141/joranandlarissa2zn9.jpg)

(http://img353.imageshack.us/img353/7749/sander5fy1.jpg)
Sander

(http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/4466/michaelgw4.jpg)
MICHAEL

Kermit - I think that might be a different Michael than the one with the belt around his neck.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Kermit on July 13, 2008, 01:13:04 PM
Ms. Klassend,

Michael pic - agree with you.
A different Michael. I think he is in other pics with the guys.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Kermit on July 13, 2008, 11:02:05 PM
In Nov. of 2004, 6 members of Joran's school (ISA) attended the "South American Model United Nations" in Caracas, Venezuela. (SAMUN)

The students were: Joran and Valentijn van der Sloot, Susana de la Oliva, Larissa Bermudez (one of the pretty girls that Joran had pictured on his webpage before it was removed), Michael Pochettino, and Hiram Vrolijk
//websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=684526&postcount=243
(I broke the link because I wasn't sure if it was okay to post a link to another site)

 ::MonkeyCool::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Buckeye on July 14, 2008, 06:40:58 AM
Somewhere, there is a night shot of two guys, standing in front of a white pickup, labeled bangbuss.  I think the guy on the right might be Michael.

(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m153/CMPM/DavidWeverBangBus.jpg)

David Wever on right

Thanks again, Pita.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on July 14, 2008, 08:54:55 AM
Posted by Poochy….

JORAN TELLS HIS TWO FRIENDS HE'LL BE AT C&C LATER THAT NIGHT  

JORAN 6/9/05 STATEMENT:

"...After that the group of girls walked to the Sportsbar. In the Sportsbar I also saw to two acquaintances who were watching baseball. I greeted my two acquaintances and told them that I was doing fine too and that I would be going to "Carlos & Charlies" that night. My two acquaintances are named "Luis" and "Joshua". I regularly meet them at Carlos & Charlies. The last name of Luis is "BETANCOURT". I do not know the last name of Joshua. Luis BETANCOURT is a Venezuelan and according to me Joshua is Colombian but I don't know that for sure. After that I walked next to the group of girls and they said to me that I should not forget to go to Carlos & Charlies.
 

Posted this before…I believe this is Freddy, Venezuelan, and Jaime, Columbian. There is just no way that Joran went to C&Cs two nights in a row, without his 2 buddies that he hung around the hotels and C&Cs with ALL the time.

Lots in Joran’s book and in the PVs about Joran’s good buddy Freddy, how they hang out at the beach and the hotels, try to chat up the tourists, and frequent Carlos and Charlies. Jaime said Joran called him at one time and Joran another, was this to meet at the Holiday Inn, not Carlos and Charlies?


http://www.hollowaycase.com/archive/police_documents/caceres617.htm

Jaime’s 6/17 PV

"My friends and acquaintances call me "Beto". I have known Joran since August 2004. Through the man named "Freddy Zedan" I met with Joran. One day I went to Joran's house with Freddy and since then we kept in contact. Usually Joran, Freddy, Koen, Sander and me go out together. Joran's nickname is "Jojo", Freddy's nickname is "Fefi", Koen's nickname is "Cul" and Sander's nickname is "Nepi". The places we usually go out to are "Carlos & Charlies", "Bahia", Tandra", "Cinema" and the beach near the big hotels. A place we regularly visit is "Carlos & Charlies".

To your question whether I drive a car, my answer to you is yes. I drive a green Honda Civic, made in 1997 or 1998. I cannot remember the plate-number right now but it is registered to my big brother named "Miguel Angel CARRASQUILIA CACERES".

Snipped

On May 29th 2005, between the hours of 16.00 and 19.00, I was called by Joran on my mobile phone with the phone number "*******".



.










Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on July 14, 2008, 08:58:03 AM
For Finngirl…. ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyHaHa::

Deepak’s 6/11 PV

To your question whether I know if Joran told the story to someone else, than I can say the following. I know Joran told his story to his friend named Freddy ZEDAN. Freddy lives behind Joran. His mobile phone number is in my mobile phone.

http://www.hollowaycase.com/archive/police_documents/deepak611.htm





Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: truthseeker2 on July 14, 2008, 12:00:23 PM
From the archives...

<snip>


just me - Party Poker Com ... exit to eden movie download, las ...
Establishment Aruba Hilton Hotel Casablanca Resort www pattty patty patty .... media Net I changed from medianet unlimited to mediamax and mail Signup www. ...
26cpartypokercom.blogspot.com/

<snip>

Mum,

Do we know what this information refers too?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on July 14, 2008, 03:32:51 PM
From the archives...

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2083.msg274368#msg274368


Reply #644 on: August 29, 2007, 06:24:41 PM » Kermit

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote from: Pita on August 29, 2007, 05:26:18 PM
ABC TODAY   
 
Business address SALINA CERCA 39-H, NOORD 
Legal form  LIMITED LIABILITY COMPANY 
Name of the company  MEDIAMAX ARUBA N.V. 
Statutory seat  ARUBA 
Date of incorporation  14 MAY 2002 
     
Main branch: MEDIAMAX ARUBA N.V. registered under number 28973
located at CAYA G.F. (BETICO) CROES 9, ORANJESTAD OOST 
NOT IN POSSESION OF A BUSINESS ESTABLISHMENT LICENCE 
   
DIRECTORS - AUTHORIZED PERSONS AND CORPORATE BODIES - SUPERVISORY BOARD: 
 
BOSET, PATRICK JOHN; 
Residing in  PARADERA 35, PARADERA, ARUBA 
Born in  THE NETHERLANDS, GOIRLE on 28 DECEMBER 1967 
Nationality  DUTCH 
Position  MANAGING DIRECTOR 
Effective  14 MAY 2002 
Authority  FULL 
   
RENFRO, JULIA CHRISTINE; 
Residing in  SALINA CERCA 39-H, NOORD, ARUBA 
Born in  U.S.A., CALIFORNIE on 30 AUGUST 1966 
Nationality  AMERICAN 
Position  PROXY A W/T "ASST. MANAGER" 
Effective  27 JUNE 2007 
Authority  FULL 




Mediamax Aruba N.V. Director Patrick J. Boset Editor Felix J. Schoonbeek Layout & Design Linda van der Windt Sales Marlene Purcell Felix J. Schoonbeek ...
www.leconcierge.mediamaxaruba.com/www/news.htm
(link removed)
MediaMax Aruba inaugurates the first information kiosk!
The very first interactive digital information kiosk is placed at the Marriott
MediaMax Aruba recently inaugurated the first information kiosk in the lobby of the Aruba Marriott Resort & Stellaris Casino, right next to the front desk, where it can't be missed.
Go have a look and try the kiosk to familiarize yourself with Aruba's fastest, easiest and coolest way to acquire information about the hotel, the island of Aruba, and the various companies providing their services such as: car rentals, real estate, recreational activities, restaurants & bars, nightlife and much more.
Using high quality pictures and streaming video, the system will provide you with valuable information about the listed companies.
Some companies even provide discount coupons, which can be printed out.
The printout can also serve as a reference to make your reservation; the coupon will have the name and telephone number of the selected company, which can be used to make a reservation.
Stay tuned for the next locations!!
http://tinyurl.com/3bvmdu


just me - Party Poker Com ... exit to eden movie download, las ...
Establishment Aruba Hilton Hotel Casablanca Resort www pattty patty patty .... media Net I changed from medianet unlimited to mediamax and mail Signup www. ...
26cpartypokercom.blogspot.com/

This blog is now dedicated to correcting the mis- information being distributed by Dan Riehl. IMHO and research, Dan is fed his information from Julia Renfro of Aruba-Today a special friend of the VanDerSloot family. It is no surprise that they are trying to turn public opinion into believing that Joran is innocent and Natalee is at least partially to blame for her own demise with the old SODDI defense. Julia and her staff contacted many blogs and forum owners immediately to be an inside source.
http://ihoppers.blogspot.com/
 
 



Bringing this forward in hopes that Kermit will see it and help us out...TIA...Kermit

From the archives...

<snip>


just me - Party Poker Com ... exit to eden movie download, las ...
Establishment Aruba Hilton Hotel Casablanca Resort www pattty patty patty .... media Net I changed from medianet unlimited to mediamax and mail Signup www. ...
26cpartypokercom.blogspot.com/

<snip>


Quote Truthseeker….

Mum,

Do we know what this information refers too?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on July 14, 2008, 11:00:33 PM
I was looking at the 'fake' Simian's posts again in light of what was discovered about the swapped Kalpoe automobile. One thing that always bothered me was the CONSTANT reference that the Kalpoe's KNEW NOTHING, and the many mentions about how ludicrious it is to even think Natalee was taken for sex slavery.

I beleive Kalpoes are very guilty, otherwise they would be talking defending their innocense.  I grouped some info together for what it's worth. Sorry for a lengthy post, but it's late and I'm signing off soon. BTW, does anybody know who the 'fake Simian' poster was? (mama kalpoe perhaps?)

KALPOES NO NOTHING:
Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 3:54 pm
I can confirm they are there. The 3 of them. Remember the Kalpoes know nothing they were informed aournd the pool deck by Joran.

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 4:02 pm
The Kalpoes have nothing to spill. They don’t what the father did. Only Joran knows why he called his Dad in the middle of the night.

Simian Says: June 25th, 2005 at 7:41 pm
Kalpoes went home. Joran stayed behind. Somebody had to come get him.

Simian Says: June 25th, 2005 at 7:50 pm
Only one piece is missing. Around the pool the Hindus were told what to say. They did not know why. They were asked to protect the boy. The father was not there, but he knew what to do. The Hindus thought the girl would reappear.

Simian Says: June 25th, 2005 at 8:21 pm
The Simian knows the Babylonians. They need to plan the legal checkmate perfectly. They know that the elder knows his way around the palace. All gates need to be shut. The Hindus don’t know that the elder knows what happened. The though they did the boy a favor by protecting him. The Hindus don’t know what happened.

SEX SLAVERY:

Simian Says: June 17th, 2005 at 5:08 pm
Why would anybody take this girl for the purpose of Sex Slavery? If you look up where Aruba is you will notice our proximity to South America. A lot of pretty girls and a lot of poverty. Why take an North American girl and sell her in Colombia?


Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 2:40 pm
Prostitution is not legal. The brothels we have are “tolerated” within certain parameters of the law. Such parameters include that the girls have to be checked for health before they come to Aruba and once a week once they are on Aruba. We do not take any women fron anywhere. They are here on their own and can leave whenever they want to during the three months. Besides that what economic sense does it make to take an American girl, while there are thousands of girls on the South American main land willing to COME to Aruba. People don’t just dissappear. And if Amy Bradley was the last girl to dissappear in Aruba and Natalee after 7 years, I would say that these human traffickers really suck. By the way This thing will be solved. Maybe after this all the North Americans bashing Aruba here should focus on Chondra Levy. Nobody knows what happened to her and it’s been awhile. Maybe you can start a “Boycott Central Park” on-line petition.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 2:50 pm
I don’t think the sex slave trade is anything at all possible. If Aruba were to be part of a sex-slave ring…we really DO SUCK at that. I mean the last person to disappear was a junkie in 1998

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 5:36 pm
TexasBelle you American Imperialist mind is wrapped around it’s own greatness. Now if the Houston Chronicle were as big as Le Monde than I would be impressed. If you in North America think it’s silly that she might have travelled back to the US. It also seems silly to us in Aruba that she was sold into slavery.

************
TWO FATHERS, TWO BOYS - 2AM/4PM PHONE CALL - ONE ON TIME FOR SCHOOL, THE OTHER ONE LATE FOR SCHOOL:

crs Says: June 24th, 2005 at 3:17 pm
Sim - when you speak of this boy I think everyone thinks you are talking about Joran but your not are you - you are talking about this other individual.

Big Pappy Says: June 24th, 2005 at 3:22 pm
Simian, you’re freaking me out now, alot of us think the boy ain’t right but what are you saying? So much stuff on him? History we don’t know about?

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 3:31 pm
The father was confronted with evidence. Can’t confirm if it’s from the cars of the house. They needed this to make him talk.

Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 3:05 pm
If you were asleep who answered your phone?

Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 3:09 pm
You can’t remember answering a phone call at 2:00 in the morning? When the next day your son was picked up?

Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 3:10 pm
Father is a suspect of the disappearance.

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 5:49 pm
The phone call to the father was made at 4:00 in the morning. No wonder he was late for school.

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 6:06 pm
I ponder the evidence of sex and drugs with the father. It was to hard for her and she could not handle the pressure. I am done. I am leaving now…..

AllyinMiami Says: June 27th, 2005 at 12:38 pm
The cowboys have their feet deep in the dirty water. They are confident in their equipment. Babylonians are there to pick up when necessary. From Montana to Moko there is not much to walk  [SO WHO LIVES IN MOKO?]

THREE VEHICLES:

Simian Says:June 25th, 2005 at 6:47 pm
There are 3  vehicles.

Simian Says: June 25th, 2005 at 7:36 pm
In the other car.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:33 pm
Simian, His Lordship did not bring the key found in the car, it did not exist The arawaks can’t open the door Hope lies with the cowbous, but the posse was too late Eden is still distant


Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:18 pm
Simian, why was the key from the Babylons Palace not used to open the Sumerians Door   ? They have become famished and Eden is beckoning…. [COULD THIS BE A SUMERIAN CAR DOOR?]

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:26 pm
Simian, his lordship did not bring the expected key the door never existed. Eden is distant


Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 6:13 pm
His lordship did not bring the key, it does not exist. doors to eden remain closed.
The arawaks hold the singing cards. They have the babylonian and 2 shivas. But the other card is dirty.

ABC News:
BLOOD WAS FOUND IN THE TRUNK OF THE CAR.

Diario Newspaper
human blood sample found in a car at the residence of one of the teens in custody

FBI and Several Aruban Police officers
FBI: Told the Family there was Blood was all over the Kalpoe car.
Art Wood, a retired Secret Service agent helping the Holloway family investigate the case, said: "That blood was sent to Holland and it came back as being cleaning fluid and chocolate. That's what the test results show. But an Aruban police officer who worked on the investigation told me there was definitely blood in that car. I think the wrong sample was deliberately sent to Holland.








Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on July 15, 2008, 08:21:15 AM
"DJ" = Dennis Jacobs (and not DJ Steve Croes?)
Younger VDS = Younger Van der Straten?
 

ShocktheMonkey on June 25th, 2005 9:08 pm
To my faithful believers:

This may be my last post. But I’ll tell you what’s going on. The younger VDS did it. No admission of guilt yet, but witnesses to prove. Awaiting DNA results to confirm will be soon. Two more possible arrests. DJ was the “Vessel”. Sorry for cryptic message, but my job is on the line. Still I remain true to you bloggers and the truth shall set us free. A mystery is only as mysterious as the mind allows it to be. Sometimes the truth is right in front of your face



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: vms on July 15, 2008, 12:53:01 PM
WAZZUP EVENTS 
 
Business address RUBY 72, NOORD 
Legal form  SOLE OWNERSHIP 
Name of the company  WAZZUP EVENTS 
Date of commencement  1 JANUARY 2008 
       
OWNERS/PARTNERS 
PONSON, GIOVANNI REGINALDO
Residing in  RUBY 72, NOORD, ARUBA 
Born in  ARUBA on 13 DECEMBER 1964 
Nationality  DUTCH 
Position  OWNER 
Effective  5 NOVEMBER 2007 
Authority  FULL 
   
PONSON-REPPAS, ANGELINA
Residing in  RUBY 72, NOORD, ARUBA 
Born in  THE NETHERLANDS, NIJMEGEN on 23 APRIL 1976 
Nationality  DUTCH 
Position  PROXY 
Effective  5 NOVEMBER 2007 
Authority  FULL 
   
OBJECTIVE(S) OF THE COMPANY 
 
1. HET VERLENEN VAN SERVICE EN DIENSTEN ZOALS HET ORGANISEREN EN PROMOVEREN VAN FEESTEN, EVENEMENTEN EN ANDERE BIJEENKOMSTEN.
2. HET UITOEFENEN VAN EEN FOTOGRAFISCH BEDRIJF.
3. HET TER BESCHIKKING STELLEN VAN PERSONEEL (PARTTIME) OP HET GEBIED VAN HORECA, FEESTEN, EVENEMENTEN EN DERGELIJKE. 
   
http://www.arubachamber.com/registry/registry_result.afp?KeyValue=38178


********************


Sunday, March 2nd, 2008, 12:48 PM
Wazzup Events 
Junior Member   Join Date: March 2nd, 2008
Posts: 1
 
 
 Re: kildaire's irish pub

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

For the ones that are going to be in Aruba March 17th.
We will be celebrating St Patricksday at Kildares the Irish Pub( There name will change to The Irish Pub co soon)
The party is going to be fun.
We will be having two live bands(Lotus band 70/80's band and Wildfire a rock band)
Outside (balcony)there will be a DJ lounge.
You can win dinners that night,the beer will be green and a lot of fun giveaways at the entrance,And free "patty shots" for everybody.
The tickets are already for sale at Kildares for Afl 10.
At the door the tickets will be $10.
If you need more info on this party or for ticket reservations just send me a message.
Hope to see you all there!

Angelina
 
http://bb.visitaruba.com/showthread.php?t=8304


********************


Wazzup night 
 Date: June 28th, 2008
Time: From 10PM
Location: Mambo Jambo
Entrance: Afl. 10,-
Performances:

Live Balashi band SEARCH
Dj Diablo
Wazzup Photomarketing FREE pictures with Miss Wazzup
Wazzup Absolut Shot girls - FREE shots
Wazzup Dancers Male & Female
Prices:

2 Digicel cellulars
Gift certificates
By the makers of Singles Night
 
Link (http://66.102.9.104/search?q=cache:IwKj7h-mHvwJ:arubabynight.com/index.php/Latest/Wazzup-bnight/b.html+WAZZUP+EVENTS+aruba&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=5&gl=us&ie=UTF-8)


********************


Event: 'Wazzup Night @ Mambo Jambo'
 
  Party

Party in Aruba
 Date: Saturday, June 28, 2008 At 22:00


The Premiere Party of Wazzup Night, June 28 at Mambo Jambo, with the live band SEARCH and DJ Diablo! Also FREE Wazzup shotgirls, FREE pictures, dancers and many prices from Digicel and Custom Style!!
Entrance Afl 10

http://www.coolaruba.com/component/option,com_extcalendar/Itemid,6/extmode,view/extid,1127/


********************


Event: 'Wazzup" Colombian" Night @ Mambo Jambo'
 
  Party

Party in Aruba
 Date: Saturday, July 19, 2008 At 22:00


Wazzup celebrates Dia de la independecia de Colombia @ Mambo Jambo.
Live on stage Oreo,Dj Diablo   and sexy Colombian Dancers.
Best dressed Colombian outfit wins Trip to Bogota!
Free aguardiente Shots and lots of Colombian giveaways.
Entrance Afl 12.50

http://www.coolaruba.com/component/option,com_extcalendar/Itemid,6/extmode,view/extid,1144/


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on July 15, 2008, 04:53:18 PM
I found this one post interesting. Note the comment date is 2/15/08, however "Rhonda" says this happened when it was first reported that Natalee went missing back in 2005.

http://tinyurl.com/6bhbs9

Comment by Rhonda
February 15th, 2008 at 11:34 pm
I want to comment on something that has been bothering me since the moment it was reported that Natalie Holloway was missing. The evening that the story came on Fox News - and I’m almost positive that it was on Greta’s show, during the talk of the commentator, I was reading the words that are printed at the bottom of the screen (I don’t know what you call it but it’s the news that flashes across the screen 24/7).. During the broadcast, it was printed on the bottom of the screen something to the effect that Joran Vandersloot confessed to her death by accident. I read it and then read it again and then it changed…

Let me explain…. The news that flashes at the bottom of the screen will go through a cycle. Once however many news headings appear, the cycle begins again. In the case with the disappearance of Natalee Holloway, if I remember correctly, her ‘accident’ statement flashed by maybe twice - meaning two cycles. After that, the next reports at the bottom of the screen had to do with her disappearance again and that was the last time that it mentioned Joran’s confession of her accident.

My first thought was that someone within the Aruban government spoke too soon and was told to shut up. Then it was as though he/she never said anything and it never happened. I sent an e-mail around that time to Fox to question it but never received an answer. Unfortunately, that was nearly 3 years ago and I can’t recall the exact language or the exact number of times it cycled. Having said that, I will never forget the meaning because I’ve thought about it repeatedly for nearly 3 years.
Another consideration that I’ve had and while I hate to use a stereotypical description, I wasn’t completely surprised to see this happen, that is, the announcement and then the disappearance of the announcement as though it never happened. Several years ago I worked for a Dutch company and someone within the company made a press/customer release regarding a part of the business that was sold. The employee was not supposed to make the release at the time and it was removed and treated as though it never happened. It absolutely disappeared. If a customer called to inquire about what they read they were told that it didn’t exist. It was just as bizarre only a young girl’s life wasn’t at stake and a family wasn’t tortured.

After Natalee’s father’s book was published a year or so ago, I sent a letter to him with these same concerns but never heard a response. Now when Joran is video taped discussing of how he watched her collapse, have a seizure and possible die, I felt compelled to bring this up again. I don’t know if anyone else recalls seeing the first reports and if so, if they ever wondered why within less than around 5 minutes the news completely changed and disappeared. I’ve also wondered if there were ever any tapes saved of the print that cycled that evening.

Furthermore, it makes more and more sense now when Joran talks about Natalee having seizures, given the fact that her family was questioned about her health and her potential for seizures. The story never changed since the first hour - it was only erased.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on July 15, 2008, 05:22:40 PM
WAZZUP EVENTS 
 
Business address RUBY 72, NOORD 
Legal form  SOLE OWNERSHIP 
Name of the company  WAZZUP EVENTS 
Date of commencement  1 JANUARY 2008 
       
OWNERS/PARTNERS 
PONSON, GIOVANNI REGINALDO
Residing in  RUBY 72, NOORD, ARUBA 
Born in  ARUBA on 13 DECEMBER 1964 
Nationality  DUTCH 
Position  OWNER 
Effective  5 NOVEMBER 2007 
Authority  FULL 
   
PONSON-REPPAS, ANGELINA
Residing in  RUBY 72, NOORD, ARUBA 
Born in  THE NETHERLANDS, NIJMEGEN on 23 APRIL 1976 
Nationality  DUTCH 
Position  PROXY 
Effective  5 NOVEMBER 2007 
Authority  FULL 
   
OBJECTIVE(S) OF THE COMPANY 
 
1. HET VERLENEN VAN SERVICE EN DIENSTEN ZOALS HET ORGANISEREN EN PROMOVEREN VAN FEESTEN, EVENEMENTEN EN ANDERE BIJEENKOMSTEN.
2. HET UITOEFENEN VAN EEN FOTOGRAFISCH BEDRIJF.
3. HET TER BESCHIKKING STELLEN VAN PERSONEEL (PARTTIME) OP HET GEBIED VAN HORECA, FEESTEN, EVENEMENTEN EN DERGELIJKE. 
   
http://www.arubachamber.com/registry/registry_result.afp?KeyValue=38178


********************


Sunday, March 2nd, 2008, 12:48 PM
Wazzup Events 
Junior Member   Join Date: March 2nd, 2008
Posts: 1
 
 
 Re: kildaire's irish pub

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

For the ones that are going to be in Aruba March 17th.
We will be celebrating St Patricksday at Kildares the Irish Pub( There name will change to The Irish Pub co soon)
The party is going to be fun.
We will be having two live bands(Lotus band 70/80's band and Wildfire a rock band)
Outside (balcony)there will be a DJ lounge.
You can win dinners that night,the beer will be green and a lot of fun giveaways at the entrance,And free "patty shots" for everybody.
The tickets are already for sale at Kildares for Afl 10.
At the door the tickets will be $10.
If you need more info on this party or for ticket reservations just send me a message.
Hope to see you all there!

Angelina
 
http://bb.visitaruba.com/showthread.php?t=8304


********************


Wazzup night 
 Date: June 28th, 2008
Time: From 10PM
Location: Mambo Jambo
Entrance: Afl. 10,-
Performances:

Live Balashi band SEARCH
Dj Diablo
Wazzup Photomarketing FREE pictures with Miss Wazzup
Wazzup Absolut Shot girls - FREE shots
Wazzup Dancers Male & Female
Prices:

2 Digicel cellulars
Gift certificates
By the makers of Singles Night
 
Link (http://66.102.9.104/search?q=cache:IwKj7h-mHvwJ:arubabynight.com/index.php/Latest/Wazzup-bnight/b.html+WAZZUP+EVENTS+aruba&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=5&gl=us&ie=UTF-8)


********************


Event: 'Wazzup Night @ Mambo Jambo'
 
  Party

Party in Aruba
 Date: Saturday, June 28, 2008 At 22:00


The Premiere Party of Wazzup Night, June 28 at Mambo Jambo, with the live band SEARCH and DJ Diablo! Also FREE Wazzup shotgirls, FREE pictures, dancers and many prices from Digicel and Custom Style!!
Entrance Afl 10

http://www.coolaruba.com/component/option,com_extcalendar/Itemid,6/extmode,view/extid,1127/


********************


Event: 'Wazzup" Colombian" Night @ Mambo Jambo'
 
  Party

Party in Aruba
 Date: Saturday, July 19, 2008 At 22:00


Wazzup celebrates Dia de la independecia de Colombia @ Mambo Jambo.
Live on stage Oreo,Dj Diablo   and sexy Colombian Dancers.
Best dressed Colombian outfit wins Trip to Bogota!
Free aguardiente Shots and lots of Colombian giveaways.
Entrance Afl 12.50


http://www.coolaruba.com/component/option,com_extcalendar/Itemid,6/extmode,view/extid,1144/

From SM front page http://tinyurl.com/5jnah8

Joran Van der Sloot and Steve Croes Statements of June 18, 2005 (Face to Face Meeting)
"...The following are the statements from Joran Van der Sloot and Steven Croes’ face to face meeting. Is it really possible that Joran Van der Sloot did not know Steve Croes?
How many times had Joran gone to Carlos N’ Chalies?
He does not know who DJ Diablo/Steve Croes is
? "


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on July 15, 2008, 07:02:10 PM
VMS,  was DJ Diablo hired to 'spin' at a parivate party that night?  Did he also bring his rented xenon LED lights? I'd love to see Cool Pro Entertainment's May 2005 bookings!


Merian 7/14/05 3:18 pm 
What is wrong? The brothers had to be separated. The Babylonians have layed it thick and hard, but couldn’t get what they asked for. Tricked out cars and pc’s. One decided to stay home and the other went to help. The Babylonians knew he was a bifrons. He bleeped on the screen all the way to Bill’s lodgings.

Merian Ernest 7/13/05 4:56pm
Swinging from a building ain’t easy. Merian has many Babylonian friends. Primates are not indigenous to the land, but make no mistake still a cousin to the great Cacique macuarima.  Look tomorrow for the Palace will rumble. Eyes burning in the xenon. Rotten packages from The Hague will make or break the losers. The palace servants have to choose sides now to avoid embarrassment.

*******
The SM Post below was by Klaasend in October 07 
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2229.msg290597#msg290597

Cool Pro DJ's Aruba:

http://www.coolaruba.com/content/category/3/5/11/

The company started out as The Cool PRO DJS. A professional DEEJAY service featuring the best dj's on the island. Today we have expanded into COOL PRO ENTERTAINMENT. Not only when you're looking for a professional D.J but also for all your sound, lights and other event needs we are your reliable partner. We service private parties, public parties and corporate events. We have qualified technicians on board as well as experienced entertainers. Now it is also possible to have one of the best DJ's perform at your private parties. The dj team has performed in many countries for example : Aruba, Curacao, Venezuela, U.S.A, Antigua and The Netherlands. When hiring Cool Pro Dj's, you have the option in just hiring the dj's with or without a complete sound and lightning package. For special requests you can contact the bookings department for enquieries.

Now Cool Pro Entertainment has 6 extraordinary lights to impresse everyone at your party or event. These are called LED Lights and can set to display only one color or to display multiple colors. Use them behind your dj/band, color up a complete wall, light effect for the dancefloor, at a product presentation and many other functions.

For more information e-mail
localmotion@hotmail.com or markbenson@coolaruba.com

or call @ 732-6275 / 593-0144

These are our Dj's & Mc's
 
DJ DIABLO (Steve Croes)
DJ VIRUS 
DJ 101 
DJ YEIMY 
DJ EDSON 
DJ DWATJE 
DJ MARK V 
DJ MARK BENSON 
DJ KRISH 
DJ BIGRIG (myspace.com/djbigrig989) 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: vms on July 15, 2008, 07:51:12 PM
Hi Poochy,

Interesting interpretation for the xenon lights. One I've never thought of.
I'd love to see that list too. DJ Mark is a really busy guy. I believe he also owns 24 Ora.

So now Angelina's new company has booked Armin's band and Steve for events.
No one knows anyone else there though.  :P


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Pita on July 15, 2008, 07:52:41 PM
Wazzup with Dj Diablo & amp

(http://www.coolaruba.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=426181&g2_serialNumber=3&g2_GALLERYSID=cf05d3647ce3d01021b8688e3ac3a980)

http://www.coolaruba.com/component/option,com_gallery2/Itemid,28/?g2_itemId=426179


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Pita on July 15, 2008, 08:00:16 PM
COOLPRO ENTERTAINMENT

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=281802853


STEVE CROES

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=20567795


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on July 16, 2008, 12:03:10 AM
Hi Poochy,

Interesting interpretation for the xenon lights. One I've never thought of.
I'd love to see that list too. DJ Mark is a really busy guy. I believe he also owns 24 Ora.

So now Angelina's new company has booked Armin's band and Steve for events.
No one knows anyone else there though.  :P

Based on the codetalkers there was a party, and the host did not leave the party and that was his alibi- that he was the host. So who the heck is this HOST? Did the host have a party at the hotel as a last night in Aruba bash? did the Host throw a private party for some special guests? Is this HOST DirtyHand?

I know posters on SM talk about the Matty apts, however I think this party started at the Holiday Inn, because:
--- Natalee told her friends she would see them 'back at the hotel'.
--- FEB said 'let's just say we saw her there and leave it at that'.
--- Natalee was seen at the front desk at the HI
--- Natalee's HI room key was used a few times in the early hours
--- Joran immediately blabbed they dropped her off at the HI and she tumbled to the floor (not ground but floor!)
--- Kalpoes said the same story, and that they left her w/security guards.
--- Steve Croes says he heard shouting on the beach outside the HI
--- I think someone then told Joran to cut out the HI story as it was bad for casino business, so he moved his party down one door to the Marriott, and then the Fishermans huts even further away from the hotels.
--- Codetalkers mention 'twisted halls' - which reminded me of a hotel floor, that maybe sheetrocked walls were quickly nailed over room doors so evidence in hotel rooms could not be accessed.

I still don't know how all the cars fit in though. Codetalkers say 3 of them. Deepak, maybe Satish' car, and then sloot vehicles.

I also re-read the 'real simian' posts. Simian mentions the 'boyfriend from earlier in the week' being a MBer, a sporter also, who didn't fly down with the MB group, and left two days after the MB group left. So who was this guy? Did he stay at the HI, or another hotel, or a timeshare or private home? Is this who Natalee was on the phone with in the casino? Who is this mystery person - anybody know? "Real Simian" says the USA didn't hear any of this on the news like they did in Aruba. I find that interesting. While I don't think this mystery person would threaten the lives of the kids who fled Aruba, I do find it interesting that there is no mention at all other than her cousins fighting with Joran. A high roller?



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: vms on July 16, 2008, 09:58:25 AM
Wazzup with Dj Diablo & amp

(http://www.coolaruba.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=426181&g2_serialNumber=3&g2_GALLERYSID=cf05d3647ce3d01021b8688e3ac3a980)

http://www.coolaruba.com/component/option,com_gallery2/Itemid,28/?g2_itemId=426179

Thanks, Pita. I see Angelina is in the same group of photos.

http://www.coolaruba.com/component/option,com_gallery2/Itemid,28/?g2_itemId=426120


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: vms on July 16, 2008, 10:35:18 AM
Could just be coincidence.  :smt102


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on July 16, 2008, 07:02:58 PM
Hi Poochy,

Interesting interpretation for the xenon lights. One I've never thought of.
I'd love to see that list too. DJ Mark is a really busy guy. I believe he also owns 24 Ora.

So now Angelina's new company has booked Armin's band and Steve for events.
No one knows anyone else there though.  :P

Based on the codetalkers there was a party, and the host did not leave the party and that was his alibi- that he was the host. So who the heck is this HOST? Did the host have a party at the hotel as a last night in Aruba bash? did the Host throw a private party for some special guests? Is this HOST DirtyHand?

I know posters on SM talk about the Matty apts, however I think this party started at the Holiday Inn, because:
--- Natalee told her friends she would see them 'back at the hotel'.
--- FEB said 'let's just say we saw her there and leave it at that'.
--- Natalee was seen at the front desk at the HI
--- Natalee's HI room key was used a few times in the early hours
--- Joran immediately blabbed they dropped her off at the HI and she tumbled to the floor (not ground but floor!)
--- Kalpoes said the same story, and that they left her w/security guards.
--- Steve Croes says he heard shouting on the beach outside the HI
--- I think someone then told Joran to cut out the HI story as it was bad for casino business, so he moved his party down one door to the Marriott, and then the Fishermans huts even further away from the hotels.
--- Codetalkers mention 'twisted halls' - which reminded me of a hotel floor, that maybe sheetrocked walls were quickly nailed over room doors so evidence in hotel rooms could not be accessed.

I still don't know how all the cars fit in though. Codetalkers say 3 of them. Deepak, maybe Satish' car, and then sloot vehicles.

I also re-read the 'real simian' posts. Simian mentions the 'boyfriend from earlier in the week' being a MBer, a sporter also, who didn't fly down with the MB group, and left two days after the MB group left. So who was this guy? Did he stay at the HI, or another hotel, or a timeshare or private home? Is this who Natalee was on the phone with in the casino? Who is this mystery person - anybody know? "Real Simian" says the USA didn't hear any of this on the news like they did in Aruba. I find that interesting. While I don't think this mystery person would threaten the lives of the kids who fled Aruba, I do find it interesting that there is no mention at all other than her cousins fighting with Joran. A high roller?

Slickster from Fugees (on 7/4/08) posted something BamaRN posted on 10/28/05 about Beth refusing to accept the fact that at leats 4 of natalee's classmates saw her return to the hotel AFTER shw was with Joran on the beach, and that there was evidence in Nat's room that she did return back to the room after being w/Joran. 

Longshot, but does anybody know much of the Twit twins or Nat's step bro? Was it just rumor that one of them laywered up on the plane ride home? Could there have been a romance the Twits didn't approve of? Again, just tossin' it out here.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on July 16, 2008, 07:50:03 PM
no party at his house.......sometimes friends cover for each other......he could have left if he was never there in the first place

DirtyHand knows where he really was-he can break the alibi.......DirtyHand=babylonian.......he walked in this house of babylon.........windows "overlooking" babylon have been opened


http://www.restaurantsaruba.com/view_review.html?REST_ID=188

he walks in many circles


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on July 16, 2008, 08:07:23 PM
Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 4:50 pm
Some people on the other side of the pond know more than what they are saying. There testimony, there’s security footage, there are witnesses.
http://scaredmonkeys.com/2006/02/25/michael-posner-upset-over-excelsior-casino-security-tapes-to-abc/


Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 4:56 pm
The 5th suspect has an alibi so strong that he has everybody baffled.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:00 pm
The 5th suspect was the boyfriend from earlier in the week.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:03 pm
The party-goers said the 5th one was with them. He was the host. How could he have left?

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:09 pm
A scorned lover needs a motive? Drives some people to some crazy deeds.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:13 pm
A jealous boyfriend was at home with some friends. He couldn’t have done it. Sometimes friends will cover for each other.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:16 pm
He had to be let go

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:22 pm
This is not my theory. This is for real.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:26 pm
The alibi story is the almost the latest.
The latest is that there’s a gap in the time-line for the boys.
It is true that one of them tried to off himself.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:29 pm
I did not say an ex. Do you people read? I not into repeating myself.


June 22nd, 2005 at 5:38 pm
Checkme…check this…and please recheck:   [repeats himself anyways]

Girl comes to Aruba. Meets cool and crazy guy in C@$ino. Goes out with him. He declares that to be the case. Can’t deny it. It’s on tape.  Everybody in the C@$ino knows the group of teens, they have been drinking in there for free the whole week. After a couple of days girl meets another boy in the same C@$ino. Goes out with him.
Simian: This makes first guy really mad. So mad he confronts second boy.
First guy never denies the affair. He knows they know he was with her. However, he has an airtight alibi. Some friends say they were at home with him. Until the morning.

Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 2:30 pm
Paulus has been picked up.
Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 2:23 pm
The older Van Der Sloot has been taken in again by Aruban Police.
Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 2:27 pm
Can’t confirm that he is detained. He has been taken in again by the authorities.
Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 2:46 pm
Confirmed. He has been detained


CNN:
http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/06/23/aruba.holloway/index.html
Fifth suspect in custody after U.S. teen's disappearance
Thursday, June 23, 2005; Posted: 10:01 p.m. EDT (02:01 GMT)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on July 16, 2008, 08:51:59 PM
no party at his house.......sometimes friends cover for each other......he could have left if he was never there in the first place

DirtyHand knows where he really was-he can break the alibi.......DirtyHand=babylonian.......he walked in this house of babylon.........windows "overlooking" babylon have been opened


http://www.restaurantsaruba.com/view_review.html?REST_ID=188

he walks in many circles


Colombo, I hear ya, but I still think DirtyHand was hosting a private party. that's why Deepak took a bath and hung out at C&C for the 30 min while Joran picked up a date for this party. I also think some MBers were also invited to this party. And all the Aruba kids that fled Aruba were also at this party. The partygoers must be pinched' and all saw out of the corner of their eyes. The host left the party to do what he wanted to do with Natalee. I think that is the alibi - that he was hosting the party and didn't leave. All the kids said he was the host and they were at the party and he didn't leave. That's the alibi IMHO.
Unfortunately that's the curse of codetalkers. Their prose can be taken so many ways...If they were wrapping up a Texas Hold'em tourney, would the casino owner perhaps throw a private party for the $1M winner and runner ups? Were the croupier and other pimps invited to this private party? Dunno...Was Steve Croes DJ Diablo hired for this private party? Dunno... but gotta say love all your research so far!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: vms on July 16, 2008, 09:18:26 PM
no party at his house.......sometimes friends cover for each other......he could have left if he was never there in the first place

DirtyHand knows where he really was-he can break the alibi.......DirtyHand=babylonian.......he walked in this house of babylon.........windows "overlooking" babylon have been opened


http://www.restaurantsaruba.com/view_review.html?REST_ID=188

he walks in many circles


:?:

Opened April 14, 2007.
www.diviresorts.com/press-releases/pdf/aruba-fine-dining-golf.pdf


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Sam on July 16, 2008, 09:18:31 PM
VMS,  was DJ Diablo hired to 'spin' at a parivate party that night?  Did he also bring his rented xenon LED lights? I'd love to see Cool Pro Entertainment's May 2005 bookings!


Merian 7/14/05 3:18 pm 
What is wrong? The brothers had to be separated. The Babylonians have layed it thick and hard, but couldn’t get what they asked for. Tricked out cars and pc’s. One decided to stay home and the other went to help. The Babylonians knew he was a bifrons. He bleeped on the screen all the way to Bill’s lodgings.

Merian Ernest 7/13/05 4:56pm
Swinging from a building ain’t easy. Merian has many Babylonian friends. Primates are not indigenous to the land, but make no mistake still a cousin to the great Cacique macuarima.  Look tomorrow for the Palace will rumble. Eyes burning in the xenon. Rotten packages from The Hague will make or break the losers. The palace servants have to choose sides now to avoid embarrassment.

*******
The SM Post below was by Klaasend in October 07 
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2229.msg290597#msg290597

Cool Pro DJ's Aruba:

http://www.coolaruba.com/content/category/3/5/11/

The company started out as The Cool PRO DJS. A professional DEEJAY service featuring the best dj's on the island. Today we have expanded into COOL PRO ENTERTAINMENT. Not only when you're looking for a professional D.J but also for all your sound, lights and other event needs we are your reliable partner. We service private parties, public parties and corporate events. We have qualified technicians on board as well as experienced entertainers. Now it is also possible to have one of the best DJ's perform at your private parties. The dj team has performed in many countries for example : Aruba, Curacao, Venezuela, U.S.A, Antigua and The Netherlands. When hiring Cool Pro Dj's, you have the option in just hiring the dj's with or without a complete sound and lightning package. For special requests you can contact the bookings department for enquieries.

Now Cool Pro Entertainment has 6 extraordinary lights to impresse everyone at your party or event. These are called LED Lights and can set to display only one color or to display multiple colors. Use them behind your dj/band, color up a complete wall, light effect for the dancefloor, at a product presentation and many other functions.

For more information e-mail
localmotion@hotmail.com or markbenson@coolaruba.com

or call @ 732-6275 / 593-0144

These are our Dj's & Mc's
 
DJ DIABLO (Steve Croes)
DJ VIRUS 
DJ 101 
DJ YEIMY 
DJ EDSON 
DJ DWATJE 
DJ MARK V 
DJ MARK BENSON 
DJ KRISH 
DJ BIGRIG (myspace.com/djbigrig989) 


I know this is crazy but saw it today and it made me think of the lights and Shango and the rave. I think this stuff will make you crazy. For some reason I remember a quote that Natalee was the party. Another thing I thought of was the SB Festival. And the dj's song was not on the bill.

Ravers Blinded By Laser Light Show Outside Moscow

by Will Safer, posted Jul 15th 2008 at 1:58PM


Attendees at a July 5 music festival outside Moscow received more than a dose of sound as more than 30 people suffered injuries to their eyes from a laser show.

The festival (really a rave) was an outdoor event with DJ music and a laser light show. Due to poor weather, a canopy was erected over the dance floor, and the laser show, which should have pointed the lights up into the sky, instead was directed horizontally across the dance area and into the ravers' eyes. A recipe for disaster?

About 20 people are in treatment now due to significant loss of sight. And the treatment, according to a spokeswoman from Moscow Ophthalmological Hospital 'involves a lot of needles.' (Yikes.)

But just how does a laser damage eyesight? Can one of those pocket laser pointers really ruin your retina? Apparently, pocket lasers are set to only one-tenth the damage threshold, but can cause temporary 'flash blindness.' More powerful lasers (Class 4 and above) can cause damage, sometimes without a person even realizing it at the time. It is unclear what types of lasers were in use at the rave, but we wouldn't be surprised if they were just a bit more powerful than average normal pen-mounted laser.

Ravers at the event reportedly tried to capture video on their cell phones, but even that didn't work when the laser light overwhelmed the phones' cameras. No word on if the eyesight damage is permanent or how long it will last. [Source: CNN]
Click Here for the World's Most Evil Gadgets

http://www.switched.com/2008/07/15/ravers-blinded-by-laser-light-show-outside-moscow/?icid=100214839x1205881219x1200272993


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: vms on July 16, 2008, 09:24:24 PM
Thanks for the article, Sam.
That's awful.  :shock:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on July 16, 2008, 10:00:12 PM
no party at his house.......sometimes friends cover for each other......he could have left if he was never there in the first place

DirtyHand knows where he really was-he can break the alibi.......DirtyHand=babylonian.......he walked in this house of babylon.........windows "overlooking" babylon have been opened


http://www.restaurantsaruba.com/view_review.html?REST_ID=188

he walks in many circles


:?:

Opened April 14, 2007.
www.diviresorts.com/press-releases/pdf/aruba-fine-dining-golf.pdf


St Maarten, too????
http://missionviejodispatch.com/2008/05/23/st-martin-case-of-missing-leda-cordes-still-cold/





Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on July 16, 2008, 10:41:47 PM
no party at his house.......sometimes friends cover for each other......he could have left if he was never there in the first place

DirtyHand knows where he really was-he can break the alibi.......DirtyHand=babylonian.......he walked in this house of babylon.........windows "overlooking" babylon have been opened


http://www.restaurantsaruba.com/view_review.html?REST_ID=188

he walks in many circles


:?:

Opened April 14, 2007.
www.diviresorts.com/press-releases/pdf/aruba-fine-dining-golf.pdf


St Maarten, too????
http://missionviejodispatch.com/2008/05/23/st-martin-case-of-missing-leda-cordes-still-cold/







John Chemaly, Jr. owns several restaurants and a Kenticky Fried Chicken.  Does he have a business interest in Windows on Aruba?  We were told that he was one of the party-goers.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on July 16, 2008, 11:07:35 PM
no party at his house.......sometimes friends cover for each other......he could have left if he was never there in the first place

DirtyHand knows where he really was-he can break the alibi.......DirtyHand=babylonian.......he walked in this house of babylon.........windows "overlooking" babylon have been opened


http://www.restaurantsaruba.com/view_review.html?REST_ID=188

he walks in many circles


:?:

Opened April 14, 2007.
www.diviresorts.com/press-releases/pdf/aruba-fine-dining-golf.pdf

St Maarten, too????
http://missionviejodispatch.com/2008/05/23/st-martin-case-of-missing-leda-cordes-still-cold/

John Chemaly, Jr. owns several restaurants and a Kenticky Fried Chicken.  Does he have a business interest in Windows on Aruba?  We were told that he was one of the party-goers.

Windows Restaurant in Aruba opened April 14, 2007

How can you tie this restaurant that opened in 2007 with Natalee's 2005 disappearance?

It goes to show how you can google things that had no relevance in 2005.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: vms on July 16, 2008, 11:17:24 PM
no party at his house.......sometimes friends cover for each other......he could have left if he was never there in the first place

DirtyHand knows where he really was-he can break the alibi.......DirtyHand=babylonian.......he walked in this house of babylon.........windows "overlooking" babylon have been opened


http://www.restaurantsaruba.com/view_review.html?REST_ID=188

he walks in many circles


:?:

Opened April 14, 2007.
www.diviresorts.com/press-releases/pdf/aruba-fine-dining-golf.pdf


St Maarten, too????
http://missionviejodispatch.com/2008/05/23/st-martin-case-of-missing-leda-cordes-still-cold/







John Chemaly, Jr. owns several restaurants and a Kenticky Fried Chicken.  Does he have a business interest in Windows on Aruba?  We were told that he was one of the party-goers.

No Chemalys listed.
http://www.arubachamber.com/registry/registry_result.afp?KeyValue=30484


FWIW. The Chemaly KFC record is some type of foundation. No Chemalys listed on the actual KFC restaurant chamber records.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: vms on July 16, 2008, 11:23:48 PM
no party at his house.......sometimes friends cover for each other......he could have left if he was never there in the first place

DirtyHand knows where he really was-he can break the alibi.......DirtyHand=babylonian.......he walked in this house of babylon.........windows "overlooking" babylon have been opened


http://www.restaurantsaruba.com/view_review.html?REST_ID=188

he walks in many circles


:?:

Opened April 14, 2007.
www.diviresorts.com/press-releases/pdf/aruba-fine-dining-golf.pdf

St Maarten, too????
http://missionviejodispatch.com/2008/05/23/st-martin-case-of-missing-leda-cordes-still-cold/

John Chemaly, Jr. owns several restaurants and a Kenticky Fried Chicken.  Does he have a business interest in Windows on Aruba?  We were told that he was one of the party-goers.

Windows Restaurant in Aruba opened April 14, 2007

How can you tie this restaurant that opened in 2007 with Natalee's 2005 disappearance?

It goes to show how you can google things that had no relevance in 2005.

Yeah, I'm lost on where COLOMBO is going on this one.

Not unusual for me to be lost though. :lol:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: finngirl on July 17, 2008, 03:07:12 AM

if you read the CONTEXT of the conversation
your questions re who "he" is will be answered:
not MB boyfriend
not dirtyhand/DirtyHand
etc ...

analyze the competition between sim/checkme ...
keeping in mind how sim blew up at
shango/shock/checkme a couple days later:
"knows shango, knows shock, knows checkme"
"they are believed but should not be"
"maybe I should make a call on you/get you 8 days in the hole"
etc ...
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

simultaneously, at 4:48/4:49 sim/checkme post:
"can't say what I want" and "gotta go" ... hmmmm
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

crs on June 22nd, 2005 2:49 pm
Yesterday, it was said that Joran was seen with wires hooked up to him implying he was taking a lie detector - did anyone ever hear anything else on that?

VANESSA on June 22nd, 2005 2:56 pm
I’m worried about checkme; has anyone heard from him today?

crs on June 22nd, 2005 2:59 pm
Checkme was on very early this morning and has not shown up since - I think he had some new news so hopefully he shows up.

Simian on June 22nd, 2005 2:59 pm
There’s not even a trace of her. At this point I am inclined to believe in a theory that has been going around on the island, but that I find difficult to post here.

crs on June 22nd, 2005 3:01 pm
POPY was insane. he is back in his padded room today - i saw it on the news last night - Greta showed up with Beth at his moms house.

scaredshitless on June 22nd, 2005 3:01 pm
Simian: and what is that?

crs on June 22nd, 2005 3:02 pm
Simian - just tell us - don’t offer us pudding and then eat it yourself.

Jake on June 22nd, 2005 3:03 pm
Simien:
How can you possibly find it hard to post anything here! Pls. tell me/us what is going around on the island!

DFW Guy on June 22nd, 2005 3:04 pm
Simian, come on. What is the rumor on the island?

pktbk on June 22nd, 2005 3:05 pm
crs-lol

his dad was hiding in the azalea bushes with his feet showing. the mom heard him invite them in and scurried around to clean the house. taking the pictures of popy out of the trash and putting them back on the mantlepiece. we love our popy, she exclaims!

MOMfromMO on June 22nd, 2005 3:10 pm
To crs: In answer to your question, regarding Joran being wired (and whatever), I am also curious to know if anyone heard more on that.

And I understand that Joran is AGAIN changing his story? Must be AFTER his supposed lie detector test??

Hmmmmm…….

crs on June 22nd, 2005 3:11 pm
Simien - We’re waiting……….we don’t have all day!

Jake on June 22nd, 2005 3:14 pm
Okay Simen - PRETTY PLEASE tell us what is being said on the island!!!!!

DFW Guy on June 22nd, 2005 3:17 pm
Simian, can’t you at least tell us what the rumor is? It’s not like you started it. Come on.

Lucy on June 22nd, 2005 3:18 pm
MOMfromMO
Yesterday at the SMonkeys discussion forum, it was mentioned that he was being checked (EKG????) and was going to be put on a suicide watch. When I read it I assumed that an scenario that would permit Joran to be transfered to a more confortable environment (private clinic???) was being set up.

crs on June 22nd, 2005 3:21 pm
I guess Simian’s mom put him down for a nap finally.

crs on June 22nd, 2005 4:17 pm
I am listening to Sean Hannity right now and he says Joran’s story is changing again.

pktbk on June 22nd, 2005 4:19 pm
crs-changing from this morning’s changed story, or is this the same changed story? and do they say what it was changed too?

crs on June 22nd, 2005 4:21 pm
I am waiting - Hannity is on commercial - I will update as soon as he gives the scoop.

Simian on June 22nd, 2005 4:23 pm
The news in Aruba has reported that Joran has shut down.

ladyJA on June 22nd, 2005 4:25 pm
Simian what does that mean??

crs on June 22nd, 2005 4:27 pm
Stopped talking.

Simian on June 22nd, 2005 4:27 pm
He has gone in a sort of downer mood. Is not saying anything anymore.

crs on June 22nd, 2005 4:28 pm
Sim - are you going telling us your info or not from earlier?

VANESSA on June 22nd, 2005 4:28 pm
Shut down as in not talking anymore….possibly about to crack.

crs on June 22nd, 2005 4:29 pm
Sim - Right now we hear Joran has changed his story again - what do your hear?

crs on June 22nd, 2005 4:30 pm
Vanessa - either that or he has told all he knows.

Jake on June 22nd, 2005 4:32 pm
You mean he has been talking for the past 3 weeks, and NOW he decides to shut up? What a jerk. Obviously since Nat has not been found, he hasn’t given much concrete info to begin with. Why shut up now Joran. I mean have you even given authorities a clue on where Nat might be? Why stop talking now.

give me a break!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Checkme on June 22nd, 2005 4:36 pm
We have to know that “Montana” (house where Joran and family lives) is really part of “Noord”. I reported yesterday that there was something going on. It was the parents finally meeting each other. Aruba is working.

crs on June 22nd, 2005 4:37 pm
Checkme - any new tidbits you can provide today? Do you still think what we talked about yesterday to be true?

Checkme on June 22nd, 2005 4:43 pm
June 16, 2005 08:26 AM on RiehlWorldView:
“I have always loved Aruba for it’s multi cultural society. Even to see how under extreme stress we can still see each others humanity gives me hope. On this island the distances are very short so you cannot remain distant and judge coldly.  “

ladyJA on June 22nd, 2005 4:43 pm
Is Simian gone??

pktbk on June 22nd, 2005 4:44 pm
do you think it odd that not only do we mainly hear about joran, not the brothers. but also that steve croes is a friend of the brothers, not so much joran. i think there is something going on in regards to the brothers. there is no spotlight on them right now.

Jake on June 22nd, 2005 4:46 pm
Do you guys believe that Simien tried to send us a message and got placed in a “moderator”????? Do you think he’s for real? Or are his walls padded? Or maybe he needs a nap?

Checkme on June 22nd, 2005 4:47 pm
You got it pktbk.

CRS, all still stands dude.

crs on June 22nd, 2005 4:47 pm
what was up with Checkme’s last post. Checkme, give me something today - you are always right on.

Simian on June 22nd, 2005 4:48 pm
I am here. Can’t say the things I want…

Checkme on June 22nd, 2005 4:49 pm
Sorry CRS, gotta go.

Simian on June 22nd, 2005 4:50 pm
Some people on the other side of the pond know more than what they are saying. There's testimony, there's security footage, there are witnesses.

Trisher on June 22nd, 2005 4:52 pm
WO!

crs on June 22nd, 2005 4:53 pm
Sim can you elaborate anymore than that? Is this your opinion or based on something mre concrete?

pktbk on June 22nd, 2005 4:53 pm
wow…..we’ve made more progress in the last five minutes than all week!!

crs on June 22nd, 2005 4:54 pm
pktbk - sim is contradicting what checkme says. Thoughts?

Trisher on June 22nd, 2005 4:55 pm
What did CheckMe say?

Simian on June 22nd, 2005 4:56 pm
The 5th suspect has an alibi so strong that he has everybody baffled.

ladyJA on June 22nd, 2005 4:58 pm
what alibi does the 5th suspect have??

Jake on June 22nd, 2005 4:59 pm
Who is the 5th suspect? There are now 4. Who is the 5th?

Simian on June 22nd, 2005 5:00 pm
The 5th suspect was the boyfriend from earlier in the week.

ladyJA on June 22nd, 2005 5:02 pm
whose boyfriend earlier in the week??????

Trisher on June 22nd, 2005 5:02 pm
Huh Simian?

crs on June 22nd, 2005 5:02 pm
What boyfriend? Whose? I am confused Sim.

Jake on June 22nd, 2005 5:03 pm
This is getting really bizarre. Who’s boyfriend from earlier in the week?

Simian on June 22nd, 2005 5:03 pm
The party-goers said the 5th one was with them. He was the host. How could he have left?

MOMfromMO on June 22nd, 2005 5:03 pm
Simian:
Boyfriend from earlier? Can you elaborate??

Lucy on June 22nd, 2005 5:04 pm
Simian -
Is #5 Van Rijn????????

rem05 on June 22nd, 2005 5:06 pm
I think he is saying NH had an earlier aquaintance during the first couple of days of the trip — I think.

Lucy on June 22nd, 2005 5:06 pm
crs
I think you blew the cover.

crs on June 22nd, 2005 5:07 pm
rem - you may be right.

Simian on June 22nd, 2005 5:09 pm
A scorned lover needs a motive? Drives some people to some crazy deeds.

Lucy on June 22nd, 2005 5:11 pm
Was the lover on the trip??

rem05 on June 22nd, 2005 5:12 pm
Sim -Surely your not saying a local MT brook boyfriend would be involved in this, would you.

Simian on June 22nd, 2005 5:13 pm
A jealous boyfriend was at home with some friends. He couldn’t have done it. Sometimes friends will cover for each other.

rem05 on June 22nd, 2005 5:14 pm
Sim -I think your reaching

Jake on June 22nd, 2005 5:15 pm
How could a local MT boyfriend be involved. The FBI would have cracked this case already through phone records and the internet. I don’t believe this. This is yet ANOTHER rumor!

Simian on June 22nd, 2005 5:16 pm
He had to be let go.

crs on June 22nd, 2005 5:16 pm
Does seem a little far fetched.

crs on June 22nd, 2005 5:18 pm
Sim - again is this your theory or something more concrete?

Simian on June 22nd, 2005 5:22 pm
This is not my theory. This is for real.

crs on June 22nd, 2005 5:23 pm
Sim - I will give you your props if it proves correct.

crs on June 22nd, 2005 5:25 pm
Sim - let me get this right - seriously - you are saying NH’s ex killed her on the trip and the friends are covering up that he did this? Hence giving him an airtight alibi as you say.

Lucy on June 22nd, 2005 5:25 pm
I do not know if it is true, but about 12 days ago it was reported that the roomates had not worried because she had only slept in the room the first night. Did not say if she had slept at other friends’ or elsewhere.

Simian on June 22nd, 2005 5:26 pm
The alibi story is the almost the latest.

The latest is that there’s a gap in the time-line for the boys.

It is true that one of them tried to off himself.

Checkme on June 22nd, 2005 5:28 pm
Simian is late with facts and wrong with his speculations.

Simian on June 22nd, 2005 5:29 pm
I did not say an ex. Do you people read? I not into repeating myself.

crs on June 22nd, 2005 5:29 pm
Sim - your not making any sense- on the one hand you seem to be saying an ex killed NH and on the other hand you are back talking about the boys - why would one of the boys try and kill himself if he is being framed?

rem05 on June 22nd, 2005 5:29 pm
elaborate Checkme

Jake on June 22nd, 2005 5:30 pm
But who is the ex-boyfriend? Is he someone from the US, or did Natalee meet him in Aruba? Who is Van Rijn?

Rob on June 22nd, 2005 5:30 pm
Sim,
Was this #5 perhaps someone Joran was having a confrontation with in C&C’s?

Trisher on June 22nd, 2005 5:30 pm
He said the ex was at “home.” He said the 5th had an alibi - that is not necessarily the ex.

crs on June 22nd, 2005 5:30 pm
Checkme- that is what i figured as you have by far been the most accurate and I am with you on your theory.

Lucy on June 22nd, 2005 5:31 pm
Checkme
Please put us up-to-date.

rem05 on June 22nd, 2005 5:31 pm
Sim is saying that her ex’s friends had something to do with this, her ex was back in alabama, right Sim

Lucy on June 22nd, 2005 5:33 pm
Checkme and Simian
This is it for you guys. You need to deliver something, since you have created all this expectation

crs on June 22nd, 2005 5:36 pm
Lucy - i think Sim is a long shot, this is the first day i have seen him on the boards and he has not been right so far but i would stick with Checkme.

Trisher on June 22nd, 2005 5:36 pm
I think it’s Checkme’s turn to deliver.

rem05 on June 22nd, 2005 5:37 pm
I agree with CRS. Checkme, where do we stand?

Lucy on June 22nd, 2005 5:37 pm
crs
Will follow your advice. For a while I thought he was a java duplicate.

Trisher on June 22nd, 2005 5:39 pm
lucy - what’s a java duplicate?
crs - what is checkme’s theory?
Sim - what?

rem05 on June 22nd, 2005 5:39 pm
I think I scared he/she off with the last comment directed toward friends of NH’s ex.

crs on June 22nd, 2005 5:41 pm
Checkme believes NH is part of a kidnapping and has been moved most likely to Columbia - he believes Joran is totally innocent - he believes the brothers and Croes to be involved.

Checkme on June 22nd, 2005 5:41 pm
What you do with what I say is up to you Lucy. I give a finger, you “expect” a body.

Simian, a motive from Joran we do not have.

Twitty will let Joran free soon.

CRS, good hearing you again, proly because you followed my trail. I think that’s because you have read and felt what I have and tie it all together to the seemingly most likely scenario. Like Simian, I hate repeating myself.

Simian on June 22nd, 2005 5:41 pm
Simian Says: Your comment is awaiting moderation.
June 22nd, 2005 at 5:40 pm
Simian Says: Your comment is awaiting moderation.
June 22nd, 2005 at 5:38 pm
Checkme…check this…and please recheck:

Girl comes to Aruba. Meets cool and crazy guy in C@$ino. Goes out with him. He declares that to be the case. Can’t deny it. It’s on tape. Everybody in the C@$ino knows the group of teens, they have been drinking in there for free the whole week.

After a couple of days girl meets another boy in the same C@$ino. Goes out with him. This makes first guy really mad. So mad he confronts second boy.

First guy never denies the affair. He knows they know he was with her. However, he has an airtight alibi. Some friends say they were at home with him. Until the morning.

How can this ever be solved?

crs on June 22nd, 2005 5:42 pm
I think Lucy thought sim and checkme were the same person.

crs on June 22nd, 2005 5:44 pm
Checkme - you have not been wrong so far and I think what we have talked about to be very possible.

Snippy on June 22nd, 2005 5:45 pm
Sim..I get you now..THANKS…you could be right..I “See” you mentioned that dreaded C word like I did and had your post deleted…

Lucy on June 22nd, 2005 5:45 pm
Trisher
I guess I have started to really believe that I was one more of the detectives on this case. Around 4:48 CRS asked Chjeckme if he was around. Simian said, a few lines afterwards something like I am here but can’t say everything. Out of the blues, I decided that Simian and Checkme perhaps were the same person. In computer languages, I think they call Simian a code that identifies a duplicate.

crs on June 22nd, 2005 5:47 pm
Can someone explain to me in Sim’s theory who is guy 1 and guy 2, which is Joran?

Lucy on June 22nd, 2005 5:49 pm
Checkme
I don’t expect a body. Perhaps a short summary of your latest discovery. Did not mean to be pushy, but just like everyone, just want your info updates to keep coming. My apologies.

Rob on June 22nd, 2005 5:51 pm
Simian,
Hence the confrontation with Joran that the other students reported seeing at C&C’s?

sunny71 on June 22nd, 2005 5:52 pm
so NH only slept in the assigned room with her roommates on the first night of their vacation? Is that correct?

If so, I’m really starting to wonder about this girl. Where did she sleep all the other nights? Did she have her bags packed the whole week, ready to leave at a moments notice?

Simian on June 22nd, 2005 5:55 pm
He has an alibi. So tight. So tight.

Lucy on June 22nd, 2005 5:57 pm
Sunny 71
She may have slept at other classmates room. If they hung around together, came to the hotel, and slept in somebody elses’s room.

cancon on June 22nd, 2005 5:57 pm
ah wait a minute, wait a minute, having experienced this somewhat myself……

the rumour de jour is that Natalee only slept in her room one night, could it be Natalee did not get along with her specific roomates which would explain why they seemed so clueless last night on Fox, had there been some big blowout so Natalee was bunking with others????

Checkme on June 22nd, 2005 5:57 pm
Lucy, CRS did an excellent recap for us all. Please don’t confuse me anymore with Simian. Just like van Sijn and van Rijn…

One thing I do want to repeat. It is so easy to throw mud at our authorities. Please don’t. We are all doing our best every day to have NH reunited with her family. We are not very good at the media show which is why I am also happy our system is closed while the investigative process is taking place.

I am not part of “the Aruban Authority”. Just a Human Being living in Aruba (duhhh…)

crs on June 22nd, 2005 5:57 pm
Sim - i am going to have to think about this tonight and i will have some questions tomorrow morning.

cancon on June 22nd, 2005 5:59 pm
or Natalee was having a feud with one or two of the girls and thusly purposely avoiding them, only spending the min time in the room……..

Simian on June 22nd, 2005 6:01 pm
The first guy she met has all the motive. The second guy is scared shitless in a cell.
I have heard from Americans living in Aruba and and they think something completely different.

Checkme on June 22nd, 2005 6:03 pm
Take care, CU tmrw. Over and out.

Simian on June 22nd, 2005 6:04 pm
Lucy you are wrong. It was just a simple party at his house. He was [there] “the whole time”.

Kristin on June 22nd, 2005 6:06 pm
OK so if all this is true, why did Natalee leave with Joran? Why didn’t she just go back to her hotel with her friends? AND, who’s alibi is airtight?

Checkme on June 22nd, 2005 6:11 pm
Kristin,
Go back to the hotel? Last nite out? Party on dudes…

Donny on June 22nd, 2005 6:18 pm
@Sim:
Is that 5th suspect with a tight aliby whose father recently committed suicide and who has had serious mental issues since?

jon on June 22nd, 2005 6:28 pm
simian you make up more bull another lover, it seems you are just trying to start more rumors. you have no FACTS to say so you make stuff up. TO all the others, she had no boyfriend back home. the other side of the pond, please anyone thats interested dont listen to this guy. He has no idea what he is talking about.

Checkme on June 22nd, 2005 6:31 pm
Jon,
Read Simian better. he did not write what you said.

Checkme on June 22nd, 2005 6:50 pm
the silence before the storm…

Kristin on June 22nd, 2005 6:59 pm
why cant you type in the word ca$in0

Kristin on June 22nd, 2005 6:59 pm
if you try to type it, it says your post is awating moderation…WHY

Kristin on June 22nd, 2005 7:01 pm
WHERE DID EVERYONE GO
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

Snippy on June 23rd, 2005 2:42 pm
FOX NEWS ALERT…DAD SLOOT HAS JUST BEEN TAKEN INTO CUSTODY
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

end of thread

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2005/06/21/beth-twitty-and-the-van-der-sloots-meet/#comments



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: finngirl on July 17, 2008, 03:19:13 AM

re:
crs on June 22nd, 2005 5:36 pm
Lucy - i think Sim is a long shot, this is the first day i have seen him on the boards and he has not been right so far but i would stick with Checkme.

sim started posting june 17, IIRC



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on July 17, 2008, 08:47:31 AM

re:
crs on June 22nd, 2005 5:36 pm
Lucy - i think Sim is a long shot, this is the first day i have seen him on the boards and he has not been right so far but i would stick with Checkme.

sim started posting june 17, IIRC



Finngirl, Sorry, I still don't get it.

If the 5th is Paulus, and with Anita off the island, that would explain the 'affair'. But how could anybody be so afraid of him?

If the 5th is Posner, then it would explain his disappearance for a few weeks after Natalee went missing. Maybe he was picked up and held in a different jail cell and then the "gods that be" let him go and sacrificed Joran. Everybody would be afraid of him, right?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on July 17, 2008, 09:02:06 AM

re:
crs on June 22nd, 2005 5:36 pm
Lucy - i think Sim is a long shot, this is the first day i have seen him on the boards and he has not been right so far but i would stick with Checkme.

sim started posting june 17, IIRC


Finngirl, Sorry, I still don't get it.

If the 5th is Paulus, and with Anita off the island, that would explain the 'affair'. But how could anybody be so afraid of him?

If the 5th is Posner, then it would explain his disappearance for a few weeks after Natalee went missing. Maybe he was picked up and held in a different jail cell and then the "gods that be" let him go and sacrificed Joran. Everybody would be afraid of him, right?

Finngirl, I think i get it now   

http://www.hyscience.com/archives/2005/09/harrytho_on_the.php



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on July 17, 2008, 09:05:28 AM

re:
crs on June 22nd, 2005 5:36 pm
Lucy - i think Sim is a long shot, this is the first day i have seen him on the boards and he has not been right so far but i would stick with Checkme.

sim started posting june 17, IIRC



Finngirl, Sorry, I still don't get it.

If the 5th is Paulus, and with Anita off the island, that would explain the 'affair'. But how could anybody be so afraid of him?

If the 5th is Posner, then it would explain his disappearance for a few weeks after Natalee went missing. Maybe he was picked up and held in a different jail cell and then the "gods that be" let him go and sacrificed Joran. Everybody would be afraid of him, right?

IIRC, Posner's "well-known Chicago lawyer" stated that he was not even on the island the night that Natalee disappeared...I will have to find the statement he made to the media to check. The only other thing I recall connected to Posner was that he was upset with ABC for releasing the casino video, not sure when that was either.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on July 17, 2008, 09:11:51 AM
Returned the following day...Maybe he was visiting his "family" in chicago over the Memorial Day holiday weekend... ::MonkeyHaHa::

Casino boss Michael Posner denies that he knows van der Sloot and denies ever extending him casino credit. Posner’s lawyer Allan Ackerman says Posner was in Chicago when Holloway vanished and returned to Aruba the day after.

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2006/02/25/michael-posner-upset-over-excelsior-casino-security-tapes-to-abc/



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on July 17, 2008, 09:20:37 AM
Saw this in reference to the Xenon...posted by always1


http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2867.480

Reply #497 on: May 30, 2008, 02:07:05 PM »always1   
 
The mines are just on the other side of the tower, not in that picture.  Remember when Marian said "look tomorrow for the palace will rumble.  Eyes burning in the Xenon. Well, I thought maybe Xenon gas came out from the mines, but now i remember Xenon lights are on most military vechicles.. And when they talk about the bird on the wire.  when I worked in communications at AA, we referred to a bird on the wire when the communication was garbled.  When Marian talks about the owner of the block and hammer, I thought she may have been talking about the owner of a very exclusive Jewelry store in Aruba not a blacksmith.  And when they said yellow jacket, I thought maybe Dirty Hand could belong to the Lions of The Netherlands, thus America would be so reluctant to make waves....Well, I could go on and on but make make lunch for mum....ttyl






Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on July 17, 2008, 11:22:16 AM

re:
crs on June 22nd, 2005 5:36 pm
Lucy - i think Sim is a long shot, this is the first day i have seen him on the boards and he has not been right so far but i would stick with Checkme.

sim started posting june 17, IIRC



Finngirl, Sorry, I still don't get it.

If the 5th is Paulus, and with Anita off the island, that would explain the 'affair'. But how could anybody be so afraid of him?

If the 5th is Posner, then it would explain his disappearance for a few weeks after Natalee went missing. Maybe he was picked up and held in a different jail cell and then the "gods that be" let him go and sacrificed Joran. Everybody would be afraid of him, right?

IIRC, Posner's "well-known Chicago lawyer" stated that he was not even on the island the night that Natalee disappeared...I will have to find the statement he made to the media to check. The only other thing I recall connected to Posner was that he was upset with ABC for releasing the casino video, not sure when that was either.

Anybody could make a statement. It doesn't necessarily mean it is the truth! Show me an airline tix stub then maybe I'll believe that he wasn't on Aruba.  Too coincidental for me to thinbk otherwise.

I thought hammer and block was the judge. Yellowbird/hammer is Alabama state bird. Bird on wire... goldie hawn film! :)

Many, many different prose translations. Maybe we should start a thread about them.




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on July 17, 2008, 11:44:52 AM

re:
crs on June 22nd, 2005 5:36 pm
Lucy - i think Sim is a long shot, this is the first day i have seen him on the boards and he has not been right so far but i would stick with Checkme.

sim started posting june 17, IIRC



Finngirl, Sorry, I still don't get it.

If the 5th is Paulus, and with Anita off the island, that would explain the 'affair'. But how could anybody be so afraid of him?

If the 5th is Posner, then it would explain his disappearance for a few weeks after Natalee went missing. Maybe he was picked up and held in a different jail cell and then the "gods that be" let him go and sacrificed Joran. Everybody would be afraid of him, right?

IIRC, Posner's "well-known Chicago lawyer" stated that he was not even on the island the night that Natalee disappeared...I will have to find the statement he made to the media to check. The only other thing I recall connected to Posner was that he was upset with ABC for releasing the casino video, not sure when that was either.

Anybody could make a statement. It doesn't necessarily mean it is the truth! Show me an airline tix stub then maybe I'll believe that he wasn't on Aruba.  Too coincidental for me to thinbk otherwise.

I thought hammer and block was the judge. Yellowbird/hammer is Alabama state bird. Bird on wire... goldie hawn film! :)

Many, many different prose translations. Maybe we should start a thread about them.





Poochy...I was not saying I believed Posner's lawyer, just what has been put out in statements.

I take everything out of aruba with OldFart's bag of salt. How can one pick a paragraph from a PV and accept it as truth, and then say the next paragraph is lies! Are we to just accept what we were told as truth, when we know about all the posters on forums who have ties to the Press in Aruba and the van der Sloot family. We have Paulus saying that he had to pick up Sebastian from the Zeolla's, friends from IFA, and American.  That statement was leaked, with pieces missing right where IFA is referenced...Why? Is there a reason certain statements were released as opposed to others? Two of Paulus'...why not the other?

The ones we have seen are so contradictary it is a joke! Just adds to the confusion!

Clever Aruba....Empty beaches...less and less tourists...less planes planes...less cruise ships=Less Money.... ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyHaHa::



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Sam on July 17, 2008, 12:12:11 PM
Returned the following day...Maybe he was visiting his "family" in chicago over the Memorial Day holiday weekend... ::MonkeyHaHa::

Casino boss Michael Posner denies that he knows van der Sloot and denies ever extending him casino credit. Posner’s lawyer Allan Ackerman says Posner was in Chicago when Holloway vanished and returned to Aruba the day after.

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2006/02/25/michael-posner-upset-over-excelsior-casino-security-tapes-to-abc/




I no longer have links but do remember Michael Posner returning to Aruba the day after Natalee disappeared. Now I do not know if that meant Monday or Tuesday.

The story also at the time was he( Posner) called in ? Lorenzo? Never could decide if it was Lorenzo Van Rijn or Lorenzo Wever. Supposed to have been one of the dealers.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on July 17, 2008, 12:50:40 PM

re:
crs on June 22nd, 2005 5:36 pm
Lucy - i think Sim is a long shot, this is the first day i have seen him on the boards and he has not been right so far but i would stick with Checkme.

sim started posting june 17, IIRC



Finngirl, Sorry, I still don't get it.

If the 5th is Paulus, and with Anita off the island, that would explain the 'affair'. But how could anybody be so afraid of him?

If the 5th is Posner, then it would explain his disappearance for a few weeks after Natalee went missing. Maybe he was picked up and held in a different jail cell and then the "gods that be" let him go and sacrificed Joran. Everybody would be afraid of him, right?

IIRC, Posner's "well-known Chicago lawyer" stated that he was not even on the island the night that Natalee disappeared...I will have to find the statement he made to the media to check. The only other thing I recall connected to Posner was that he was upset with ABC for releasing the casino video, not sure when that was either.

Anybody could make a statement. It doesn't necessarily mean it is the truth! Show me an airline tix stub then maybe I'll believe that he wasn't on Aruba.  Too coincidental for me to thinbk otherwise.

I thought hammer and block was the judge. Yellowbird/hammer is Alabama state bird. Bird on wire... goldie hawn film! :)

Many, many different prose translations. Maybe we should start a thread about them.





Poochy...I was not saying I believed Posner's lawyer, just what has been put out in statements.

I take everything out of aruba with OldFart's bag of salt. How can one pick a paragraph from a PV and accept it as truth, and then say the next paragraph is lies! Are we to just accept what we were told as truth, when we know about all the posters on forums who have ties to the Press in Aruba and the van der Sloot family. We have Paulus saying that he had to pick up Sebastian from the Zeolla's, friends from IFA, and American.  That statement was leaked, with pieces missing right where IFA is referenced...Why? Is there a reason certain statements were released as opposed to others? Two of Paulus'...why not the other?

The ones we have seen are so contradictary it is a joke! Just adds to the confusion!

Clever Aruba....Empty beaches...less and less tourists...less planes planes...less cruise ships=Less Money.... ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyHaHa::



Gotcha Mum!

For all these years I was trying to figure out who those kids were so afraid of to springboard off of Aruba, including entire families like the Gottenbos clan. Now I understand totally. The terms 'cafone' (any Brooklynite would pronounce it GAVONE!) is what gave it away for me. Lives are threatened here. Totally makes sense to me!

But now I'm wondering if maybe all these codetalkers were trying to throw us off the scent of J2K. Maybe the only connection to Psner was for a buddy to help Joran out. Maybe a dirty cop, a poison siren. Dunno.

Do you know who owned the white vehicle?

On May 30, 2005 the Marriot fisherman observed a white pickup vehicle
The witness at the Holiday Inn observed a white pickup vehicle (said a body was put in the back of the pickup)
On June 1, 2005 Junior observed a white pickup vehicle at the landfill


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: truthseeker2 on July 17, 2008, 01:17:18 PM
Saw this in reference to the Xenon...posted by always1


http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2867.480

Reply #497 on: May 30, 2008, 02:07:05 PM »always1   
 
The mines are just on the other side of the tower, not in that picture.  Remember when Marian said "look tomorrow for the palace will rumble.  Eyes burning in the Xenon. Well, I thought maybe Xenon gas came out from the mines, but now i remember Xenon lights are on most military vechicles.. And when they talk about the bird on the wire.  when I worked in communications at AA, we referred to a bird on the wire when the communication was garbled.  When Marian talks about the owner of the block and hammer, I thought she may have been talking about the owner of a very exclusive Jewelry store in Aruba not a blacksmith.  And when they said yellow jacket, I thought maybe Dirty Hand could belong to the Lions of The Netherlands, thus America would be so reluctant to make waves....Well, I could go on and on but make make lunch for mum....ttyl






I think Xenon is also used for camera lights and flash bulbs.  That is what I always thought Merian was talking about.  I could be wrong.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on July 17, 2008, 01:25:30 PM

re:
crs on June 22nd, 2005 5:36 pm
Lucy - i think Sim is a long shot, this is the first day i have seen him on the boards and he has not been right so far but i would stick with Checkme.

sim started posting june 17, IIRC



Finngirl, Sorry, I still don't get it.

If the 5th is Paulus, and with Anita off the island, that would explain the 'affair'. But how could anybody be so afraid of him?

If the 5th is Posner, then it would explain his disappearance for a few weeks after Natalee went missing. Maybe he was picked up and held in a different jail cell and then the "gods that be" let him go and sacrificed Joran. Everybody would be afraid of him, right?

IIRC, Posner's "well-known Chicago lawyer" stated that he was not even on the island the night that Natalee disappeared...I will have to find the statement he made to the media to check. The only other thing I recall connected to Posner was that he was upset with ABC for releasing the casino video, not sure when that was either.

Anybody could make a statement. It doesn't necessarily mean it is the truth! Show me an airline tix stub then maybe I'll believe that he wasn't on Aruba.  Too coincidental for me to thinbk otherwise.

I thought hammer and block was the judge. Yellowbird/hammer is Alabama state bird. Bird on wire... goldie hawn film! :)

Many, many different prose translations. Maybe we should start a thread about them.





Poochy...I was not saying I believed Posner's lawyer, just what has been put out in statements.

I take everything out of aruba with OldFart's bag of salt. How can one pick a paragraph from a PV and accept it as truth, and then say the next paragraph is lies! Are we to just accept what we were told as truth, when we know about all the posters on forums who have ties to the Press in Aruba and the van der Sloot family. We have Paulus saying that he had to pick up Sebastian from the Zeolla's, friends from IFA, and American.  That statement was leaked, with pieces missing right where IFA is referenced...Why? Is there a reason certain statements were released as opposed to others? Two of Paulus'...why not the other?

The ones we have seen are so contradictary it is a joke! Just adds to the confusion!

Clever Aruba....Empty beaches...less and less tourists...less planes planes...less cruise ships=Less Money.... ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyHaHa::



Gotcha Mum!

For all these years I was trying to figure out who those kids were so afraid of to springboard off of Aruba, including entire families like the Gottenbos clan. Now I understand totally. The terms 'cafone' (any Brooklynite would pronounce it GAVONE!) is what gave it away for me. Lives are threatened here. Totally makes sense to me!

But now I'm wondering if maybe all these codetalkers were trying to throw us off the scent of J2K. Maybe the only connection to Psner was for a buddy to help Joran out. Maybe a dirty cop, a poison siren. Dunno.

Do you know who owned the white vehicle?

On May 30, 2005 the Marriot fisherman observed a white pickup vehicle
The witness at the Holiday Inn observed a white pickup vehicle (said a body was put in the back of the pickup)
On June 1, 2005 Junior observed a white pickup vehicle at the landfill


I recall some discussion a while back about white trucks and at first I thought the vehicle that David Wever and Michael were leaning on a few pages back was a white truck. IIRC it was decided that this was in fact a car? Sorry on the memory on that one!

I read that GVC was arrested because a white car was spotted at his house just after the Dutch re-enactment. This went along with one of the suspect's white car following them....

Just like Sam's post about David/Lorenzo Wever/van Rijn, opens up more confusion....and I can show you 3 green vehicles, and the peeps connected to them have all been questioned! Oh...forgot the grey/silver cars...LOL

Not trying to be difficult, Poochy, but wondering if we really know what 'car' we are even looking at.

To be sure there was a white truck, we have to be absolutely certain of those two witness statements. Can we find enough to be sure of the white truck? Trying to remember about Junior...he contacted some-one, maybe ALE and they didn't act, later he contacted either ALE, Jossy or some-one connected to the family.

I know Lala's showed an interest in a white truck a while back...thought we may have even looked for VCB or ALE vehicles. I am picturing one from a newspaper report about the boy that drowned shortly after Natalee disappeared. Maybe Lala's can remember.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on July 17, 2008, 01:28:53 PM
Saw this in reference to the Xenon...posted by always1


http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2867.480

Reply #497 on: May 30, 2008, 02:07:05 PM »always1   
 
The mines are just on the other side of the tower, not in that picture.  Remember when Marian said "look tomorrow for the palace will rumble.  Eyes burning in the Xenon. Well, I thought maybe Xenon gas came out from the mines, but now i remember Xenon lights are on most military vechicles.. And when they talk about the bird on the wire.  when I worked in communications at AA, we referred to a bird on the wire when the communication was garbled.  When Marian talks about the owner of the block and hammer, I thought she may have been talking about the owner of a very exclusive Jewelry store in Aruba not a blacksmith.  And when they said yellow jacket, I thought maybe Dirty Hand could belong to the Lions of The Netherlands, thus America would be so reluctant to make waves....Well, I could go on and on but make make lunch for mum....ttyl






I think Xenon is also used for camera lights and flash bulbs.  That is what I always thought Merian was talking about.  I could be wrong.

Thanks TruthSeeker...makes perfect sense, well to me anyway!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on July 17, 2008, 01:34:02 PM
Saw this in reference to the Xenon...posted by always1


http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2867.480

Reply #497 on: May 30, 2008, 02:07:05 PM »always1   
 
The mines are just on the other side of the tower, not in that picture.  Remember when Marian said "look tomorrow for the palace will rumble.  Eyes burning in the Xenon. Well, I thought maybe Xenon gas came out from the mines, but now i remember Xenon lights are on most military vechicles.. And when they talk about the bird on the wire.  when I worked in communications at AA, we referred to a bird on the wire when the communication was garbled.  When Marian talks about the owner of the block and hammer, I thought she may have been talking about the owner of a very exclusive Jewelry store in Aruba not a blacksmith.  And when they said yellow jacket, I thought maybe Dirty Hand could belong to the Lions of The Netherlands, thus America would be so reluctant to make waves....Well, I could go on and on but make make lunch for mum....ttyl






I think Xenon is also used for camera lights and flash bulbs.  That is what I always thought Merian was talking about.  I could be wrong.

Thanks TruthSeeker...makes perfect sense, well to me anyway!


This makes sense as well...

Car Xenon Headlights Kit | Lights | Bulbs | Ballast | HID ...
Xenon Headlights for all vehicles, motorcycle - Bulbs, Ballast, in best quality, free 2 days delivery. In all collors 5000k,6000k,8000k, 10000k, types H1, ...www.xenoncar.com/ - 15k


http://www.xenoncar.com/

Poochy
...did you start that thread.... ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on July 17, 2008, 02:04:20 PM
Caps...Can you please check database for Zedans and Arambatzis - they seem to multiplying like little bunnies... ::MonkeyHaHa::....

Is it correct that only those over 18 are listed in the database or are minors included as well?

One more...Montanja 62...Who and how many at this address, please....

Sorry...more than one question!  thanks In Advance... ::MonkeyCool::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on July 17, 2008, 02:08:44 PM
Saw this in reference to the Xenon...posted by always1


http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2867.480

Reply #497 on: May 30, 2008, 02:07:05 PM »always1   
 
The mines are just on the other side of the tower, not in that picture.  Remember when Marian said "look tomorrow for the palace will rumble.  Eyes burning in the Xenon. Well, I thought maybe Xenon gas came out from the mines, but now i remember Xenon lights are on most military vechicles.. And when they talk about the bird on the wire.  when I worked in communications at AA, we referred to a bird on the wire when the communication was garbled.  When Marian talks about the owner of the block and hammer, I thought she may have been talking about the owner of a very exclusive Jewelry store in Aruba not a blacksmith.  And when they said yellow jacket, I thought maybe Dirty Hand could belong to the Lions of The Netherlands, thus America would be so reluctant to make waves....Well, I could go on and on but make make lunch for mum....ttyl






I think Xenon is also used for camera lights and flash bulbs.  That is what I always thought Merian was talking about.  I could be wrong.

Thanks TruthSeeker...makes perfect sense, well to me anyway!


This makes sense as well...

Car Xenon Headlights Kit | Lights | Bulbs | Ballast | HID ...
Xenon Headlights for all vehicles, motorcycle - Bulbs, Ballast, in best quality, free 2 days delivery. In all collors 5000k,6000k,8000k, 10000k, types H1, ...www.xenoncar.com/ - 15k


http://www.xenoncar.com/

Poochy
...did you start that thread.... ::MonkeyHaHa::
Mum, no, but I think it would be a good idea! Stick all the variations thru a computer program and see all the resulting possibilities!The butler, with the candlestick, in the library; Joran, with his belt, at the lighthouse; Joran, with his sneaker, at the beach; Deepak, with his yard drink, in the back seat of his car, yada yada.

The Xenon car lights info/link is VERY interesting. Did they need all the car headlights turned on in a secluded spot (Lighthouse or rock painting party locale OR THE SPOT WHERE DEEPAK SAID HE TOOK A WIZZ EVEN THO HE JUST PISSED EARLIERAT C&C) to make a bangbus movie? Where her eyes burning from crying as their car headlights shone on her? Did he 'touch the girl' with his car and thus having to bring it in to the Automotive Enterprises?

Merian Ernest 7/13/05 4:56pm
Swinging from a building ain’t easy. Merian has many Babylonian friends. Primates are not indigenous to the land, but make no mistake still a cousin to the great Cacique macuarima.  Look tomorrow for the Palace will rumble. Eyes burning in the xenon. Rotten packages from The Hague will make or break the losers. The palace servants have to choose sides now to avoid embarrassment.

Merian Ernest 7/14/05 4:45pm
A new line has been set. The clock re-arranged. Ha! Antennas that talk about what they saw. They know he went back, but what did he do? The voulchers with their xenons don’t even understand this. Dutch bugs zooming by fast. So fast they don’t make a sound. The head Babylonian likes the old cowboy and tells him secrets so he can ride longer. Do remember that the cowboys don’t have badges. They should not trespass. Silent witnesses can be thrown out of the courtroom.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on July 17, 2008, 02:18:55 PM
no party at his house.......sometimes friends cover for each other......he could have left if he was never there in the first place

DirtyHand knows where he really was-he can break the alibi.......DirtyHand=babylonian.......he walked in this house of babylon.........windows "overlooking" babylon have been opened


http://www.restaurantsaruba.com/view_review.html?REST_ID=188

he walks in many circles


:?:

Opened April 14, 2007.
www.diviresorts.com/press-releases/pdf/aruba-fine-dining-golf.pdf

St Maarten, too????
http://missionviejodispatch.com/2008/05/23/st-martin-case-of-missing-leda-cordes-still-cold/

John Chemaly, Jr. owns several restaurants and a Kenticky Fried Chicken.  Does he have a business interest in Windows on Aruba?  We were told that he was one of the party-goers.

Windows Restaurant in Aruba opened April 14, 2007

How can you tie this restaurant that opened in 2007 with Natalee's 2005 disappearance?

It goes to show how you can google things that had no relevance in 2005.

Yeah, I'm lost on where COLOMBO is going on this one.

Not unusual for me to be lost though. :lol:


and the Wyndham is now Westin


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on July 17, 2008, 02:20:35 PM
Poochy...Can you start the thread, please? But no....computer program...simple logic works for me, sometimes. ::MonkeyHaHa::

The second reference appears to be the Dutch Marines helicopters and their lights. Dutch bugs zooming....voulchers...
 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on July 17, 2008, 02:26:02 PM
no party at his house.......sometimes friends cover for each other......he could have left if he was never there in the first place

DirtyHand knows where he really was-he can break the alibi.......DirtyHand=babylonian.......he walked in this house of babylon.........windows "overlooking" babylon have been opened


http://www.restaurantsaruba.com/view_review.html?REST_ID=188

he walks in many circles


:?:

Opened April 14, 2007.
www.diviresorts.com/press-releases/pdf/aruba-fine-dining-golf.pdf

St Maarten, too????
http://missionviejodispatch.com/2008/05/23/st-martin-case-of-missing-leda-cordes-still-cold/

John Chemaly, Jr. owns several restaurants and a Kenticky Fried Chicken.  Does he have a business interest in Windows on Aruba?  We were told that he was one of the party-goers.

Windows Restaurant in Aruba opened April 14, 2007

How can you tie this restaurant that opened in 2007 with Natalee's 2005 disappearance?

It goes to show how you can google things that had no relevance in 2005.

Yeah, I'm lost on where COLOMBO is going on this one.

Not unusual for me to be lost though. :lol:


and the Wyndham is now Westin



Hi COLOMBO...And there is a Westin in St. Maarten.  Leda was last seen there....or was she? 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on July 17, 2008, 03:06:28 PM
Poochy...Can you start the thread, please? But no....computer program...simple logic works for me, sometimes. ::MonkeyHaHa::

The second reference appears to be the Dutch Marines helicopters and their lights. Dutch bugs zooming....voulchers...
 

Let's think about this thread for a sec-- we need a place to park all the different things we get hits on when googling codetalker prose, correct? Like Xenon = lights, but could mean headlights, DJ rented party lights, etc? So one topic is XENON, another is MOKO, etc like that?

How can we keep track of each piece of info? If on ONE GIANT THREAD it will get lost! 

Blonde, can you assist?  ::MonkeyCool::



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on July 17, 2008, 03:26:22 PM
Poochy...Can you start the thread, please? But no....computer program...simple logic works for me, sometimes. ::MonkeyHaHa::

The second reference appears to be the Dutch Marines helicopters and their lights. Dutch bugs zooming....voulchers...
 

Let's think about this thread for a sec-- we need a place to park all the different things we get hits on when googling codetalker prose, correct? Like Xenon = lights, but could mean headlights, DJ rented party lights, etc? So one topic is XENON, another is MOKO, etc like that?

How can we keep track of each piece of info? If on ONE GIANT THREAD it will get lost! 

Blonde, can you assist?  ::MonkeyCool::



Not Blonde...I think more chance of finding it in a separate thread, maybe a summary post with page numbers every five, 10 pages or so.

Only thing that worries me is that it has been quiet and would hate to see the posts taken away from this thread.

Lala's and I have been trying to keep an Index of the Shango threads, and I am about 20 pages behind...LOL....but then I would have the page number listed to find the posts...only thing is once the pages get older and if I don't revisit it, it is hard to remember when the posts were made to know where to even start looking in the Index.

Maybe some thoughts from some other Tangoers....


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on July 17, 2008, 03:45:27 PM
Poochy...had some more thoughts on this...LOL

I really think that the intepretations and discussion about them belong here...We are trying to work out in this thread, who these posters were and what they knew, if anything.  Picking apart their posts is part of that. Anything that comes under that has been discussed in here...the other car, the 5th. suspect, Dirty Hand and so on.

If we have 5 definitions, we won't all agree, we will all form our own opinion of which one works for us and follow that path. JMO


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on July 17, 2008, 04:09:06 PM
Poochy...had some more thoughts on this...LOL

I really think that the intepretations and discussion about them belong here...We are trying to work out in this thread, who these posters were and what they knew, if anything.  Picking apart their posts is part of that. Anything that comes under that has been discussed in here...the other car, the 5th. suspect, Dirty Hand and so on.

If we have 5 definitions, we won't all agree, we will all form our own opinion of which one works for us and follow that path. JMO

Would a word document or an excel file work?  Was just thinking that each person with determinations on code meanings could create one and post in the separate thread....if updated, that could be noted, as well.  Of course, this may not work, but I wanted to throw the suggestion out there.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on July 17, 2008, 04:18:51 PM
Poochy...had some more thoughts on this...LOL

I really think that the intepretations and discussion about them belong here...We are trying to work out in this thread, who these posters were and what they knew, if anything.  Picking apart their posts is part of that. Anything that comes under that has been discussed in here...the other car, the 5th. suspect, Dirty Hand and so on.

If we have 5 definitions, we won't all agree, we will all form our own opinion of which one works for us and follow that path. JMO

Would a word document or an excel file work?  Was just thinking that each person with determinations on code meanings could create one and post in the separate thread....if updated, that could be noted, as well.  Of course, this may not work, but I wanted to throw the suggestion out there.

Yup. Ya read my mind. I did a categorized codetalker word doc a while ago and it comes in handy. I guess we can all do our own and compare it one of these days.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on July 17, 2008, 04:26:36 PM
Poochy...had some more thoughts on this...LOL

I really think that the intepretations and discussion about them belong here...We are trying to work out in this thread, who these posters were and what they knew, if anything.  Picking apart their posts is part of that. Anything that comes under that has been discussed in here...the other car, the 5th. suspect, Dirty Hand and so on.

If we have 5 definitions, we won't all agree, we will all form our own opinion of which one works for us and follow that path. JMO

Would a word document or an excel file work?  Was just thinking that each person with determinations on code meanings could create one and post in the separate thread....if updated, that could be noted, as well.  Of course, this may not work, but I wanted to throw the suggestion out there.

Yup. Ya read my mind. I did a categorized codetalker word doc a while ago and it comes in handy. I guess we can all do our own and compare it one of these days.


Sounds like a good idea to me. That way the discussion continue here. Now if I could only work out 'across the pond'.  Then I would have more than one to contribute...LOL

Maybe COLOMBO will kick it off! ::MonkeyWink::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on July 17, 2008, 06:38:15 PM
Poochy...had some more thoughts on this...LOL

I really think that the intepretations and discussion about them belong here...We are trying to work out in this thread, who these posters were and what they knew, if anything.  Picking apart their posts is part of that. Anything that comes under that has been discussed in here...the other car, the 5th. suspect, Dirty Hand and so on.

If we have 5 definitions, we won't all agree, we will all form our own opinion of which one works for us and follow that path. JMO

Would a word document or an excel file work?  Was just thinking that each person with determinations on code meanings could create one and post in the separate thread....if updated, that could be noted, as well.  Of course, this may not work, but I wanted to throw the suggestion out there.

Yup. Ya read my mind. I did a categorized codetalker word doc a while ago and it comes in handy. I guess we can all do our own and compare it one of these days.


Sounds like a good idea to me. That way the discussion continue here. Now if I could only work out 'across the pond'.  Then I would have more than one to contribute...LOL

Maybe COLOMBO will kick it off! ::MonkeyWink::

Across the pond = On the other side of the Atlantic Ocean, used to refer to the US or the UK depending on the speaker's location.

Across the pond = across from the pond near Joran's house...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on July 17, 2008, 06:48:17 PM
Poochy...had some more thoughts on this...LOL

I really think that the intepretations and discussion about them belong here...We are trying to work out in this thread, who these posters were and what they knew, if anything.  Picking apart their posts is part of that. Anything that comes under that has been discussed in here...the other car, the 5th. suspect, Dirty Hand and so on.

If we have 5 definitions, we won't all agree, we will all form our own opinion of which one works for us and follow that path. JMO

Would a word document or an excel file work?  Was just thinking that each person with determinations on code meanings could create one and post in the separate thread....if updated, that could be noted, as well.  Of course, this may not work, but I wanted to throw the suggestion out there.

Yup. Ya read my mind. I did a categorized codetalker word doc a while ago and it comes in handy. I guess we can all do our own and compare it one of these days.


Sounds like a good idea to me. That way the discussion continue here. Now if I could only work out 'across the pond'.  Then I would have more than one to contribute...LOL

Maybe COLOMBO will kick it off! ::MonkeyWink::

Across the pond = On the other side of the Atlantic Ocean, used to refer to the US or the UK depending on the speaker's location.

Across the pond = across from the pond near Joran's house...



Across the Atlantic is what I always thought...till I saw it posted by a person in Aruba, or I thought they were...was this person Dutch, Aruban or possibly American.

Does it even matter? Would it change where they are referring to? Or should I be looking at who the posts were directed at? Mainly Americans on the SM front page.  ::MonkeyConfused::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: hotping on July 18, 2008, 01:55:30 PM
Poochy...had some more thoughts on this...LOL

I really think that the intepretations and discussion about them belong here...We are trying to work out in this thread, who these posters were and what they knew, if anything.  Picking apart their posts is part of that. Anything that comes under that has been discussed in here...the other car, the 5th. suspect, Dirty Hand and so on.

If we have 5 definitions, we won't all agree, we will all form our own opinion of which one works for us and follow that path. JMO

Would a word document or an excel file work?  Was just thinking that each person with determinations on code meanings could create one and post in the separate thread....if updated, that could be noted, as well.  Of course, this may not work, but I wanted to throw the suggestion out there.

Yup. Ya read my mind. I did a categorized codetalker word doc a while ago and it comes in handy. I guess we can all do our own and compare it one of these days.


Sounds like a good idea to me. That way the discussion continue here. Now if I could only work out 'across the pond'.  Then I would have more than one to contribute...LOL

Maybe COLOMBO will kick it off! ::MonkeyWink::

Across the pond = On the other side of the Atlantic Ocean, used to refer to the US or the UK depending on the speaker's location.

Across the pond = across from the pond near Joran's house...



Across the Atlantic is what I always thought...till I saw it posted by a person in Aruba, or I thought they were...was this person Dutch, Aruban or possibly American.

Does it even matter? Would it change where they are referring to? Or should I be looking at who the posts were directed at? Mainly Americans on the SM front page.  ::MonkeyConfused::
Hi Mum....Try googling "Across the pond" it brings up some interesting stuff


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on July 18, 2008, 04:33:57 PM
Poochy...had some more thoughts on this...LOL

I really think that the intepretations and discussion about them belong here...We are trying to work out in this thread, who these posters were and what they knew, if anything.  Picking apart their posts is part of that. Anything that comes under that has been discussed in here...the other car, the 5th. suspect, Dirty Hand and so on.

If we have 5 definitions, we won't all agree, we will all form our own opinion of which one works for us and follow that path. JMO

Would a word document or an excel file work?  Was just thinking that each person with determinations on code meanings could create one and post in the separate thread....if updated, that could be noted, as well.  Of course, this may not work, but I wanted to throw the suggestion out there.

Yup. Ya read my mind. I did a categorized codetalker word doc a while ago and it comes in handy. I guess we can all do our own and compare it one of these days.


Sounds like a good idea to me. That way the discussion continue here. Now if I could only work out 'across the pond'.  Then I would have more than one to contribute...LOL

Maybe COLOMBO will kick it off! ::MonkeyWink::

Across the pond = On the other side of the Atlantic Ocean, used to refer to the US or the UK depending on the speaker's location.

Across the pond = across from the pond near Joran's house...



Across the Atlantic is what I always thought...till I saw it posted by a person in Aruba, or I thought they were...was this person Dutch, Aruban or possibly American.

Does it even matter? Would it change where they are referring to? Or should I be looking at who the posts were directed at? Mainly Americans on the SM front page.  ::MonkeyConfused::
Hi Mum....Try googling "Across the pond" it brings up some interesting stuff

I did that earlier today and forgot to post!!!  Lots of comic, Marvel stuff was where I left off.  ~Keep going around in circles~.... ::MonkeyConfused::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Blonde on July 19, 2008, 08:38:41 PM
Another side issue surfaced from a notorious poster, Proudredneck, claimed that the Twitty-Holloway phone at the Holiday Inn was wiretapped. Though no one proved or disproved the revelation, it did come across as possible. The wiretapper was said to be a PI working for Michael Posner. After Natalee went missing, the poster, Proudredneck, claimed the PI worked for the van der Sloot

http://209.85.215.104/search?q=cache:4w51QRYi1kYJ:www.hyscience.com/archives/2005/10/harrytho_1014_n.php+Michael+Posner+returning+to+Aruba+the+day+after+Natalee+disappeared.&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=4&gl=us


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on July 19, 2008, 11:38:59 PM
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Louis+Posner+Aruba

"...When consumers visit our web site they understand that Island Remedy is something special,” said Aruba Aloe’s Louis Posner..."

5/16/06 the grey whisper said...
We all know the export is not the drugs, texan. Fnd the real export in the middle of the island and you will find the answers you seek.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Altruist on July 20, 2008, 12:51:37 AM
It wouldn't be surprising to learn that one of the exports of Devils Island is illegal immigrants originating from South American countries who end up in sex slavery situations in Holland & other countries throughout the world who tend to host the sexual deviants who obviously can not bond with normal human beings & have wonderful relationships so they settle for perversion of the vulnerable.  They care for nobody & are all about pleasuring themselves by abusing others & justify their perverted state by paying money, like there is any amount of money that would be enough except to those who have been kidnapped, have no way out alive & think they are protecting their loved ones.  They are SICKOS to prey on human beings in this manner to say the least.

It is my understanding that the regular prostitute in the windows area of Holland is being shut down & they have set up outside the city limits a drive in of sorts with stalls for cars.  The PERVERTS drive around a circle with these poor unfortunate young women standing on the curb & choose which one they will pay some meager amount of cash to for a 15 minute perverted pleasuring in the car parked in the stall.  These poor unfortunate women have a quota to satisfy their jailers.  Just disgusting.

But let me say that I DO NOT BELIEVE THIS ACTIVITY BEING BROUGHT TO LIGHT HAS ANYTHING TO DO WITH THE LOVELY NATALEE HOLLOWAY, IT IS A DISTRACTION BY THE ARUBAN PERVERTS WHO PREY ON THE TOURISTS.

MAY THEY ROT IN HELL WHEN THE TIME FINALLY ARRIVES.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on July 20, 2008, 10:59:31 AM
http://arubadirtypolice.blogspot.com/2006_04_01_archive.html

Sunday, April 30, 2006
Joran's Favorite Porn Site: Bangbus

Joran's alibi, Freddie Z, who has been a friend for life and lived close to Joran has connections to South Florida. He was Joran's alibi, one of many that turned out to be lies.

The porn site bangbus.com has this mission statement:

Yes boys and girls you have reached the one, the only, bangbus.com. For 2 years we have gone out in our van with camcorder in hand, in search for every girl's inner slut. We have driven all over the country, and over the past year, all over the world. We have returned with footage that your brain will not want to accept, but will have to. It is undeniable. It is debauchery. It is human behavior brought to freightening lows...it is the bangbus, and the bus rides on...

The theme of the site is local guys driving around looking for tourist girls mostly who they can get into their cars and have sex with them. They all consider themselves pimps and the misogny is extreme.

The moments of truth and noted goals are marked with screen breaks:

Getting her in: Which is to get her in the car
Dropping her: The scenarios end with the "pimps" dropping the girls somewhere deserted.

This site is mentioned multiple times in the Aruba "pimps" tickle sites and elsewhere.

It's clear where the behaviour is fed and no doubt you will find this site in Joran's "favorites."

The men are always different in these sites. Some even look like Satish Kalpoe.


Anita and Paulus, where were you this whole time?

posted by Deetch at 1:55 PM


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on July 20, 2008, 03:32:59 PM
Thanks Hotping and 2NJSons...going to read the FP again...Take a good look at  Simian/Merian/Armin in context...

It appears our friend Armin had some sort of identity crisis going on here…Maybe that is why he was given weekends off as Merian, all workday daytime posts, or maybe he found his true form and was able to relax as Merian…. ::MonkeyHaHa::

Wonder if he was under the care of a professional at all...jumped right into a new nic rather quickly...twice.... ::MonkeyEek::

As well as it appears he lies...


Simian Posted: Jun 30, 4:24 PM

Mono Posted: Jun 30, 6:10 PM

Mono Posted: Jun 30, 6:20 PM

Mono Posted: Jun 30, 6:37 PM

Baboon Posted: Jul 1, 10:29 AM

Baboon Posted: Jul 1, 10:38 AM

Merian Ernest Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2005 11:30 am


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on July 20, 2008, 07:34:52 PM
Thanks Hotping and 2NJSons...going to read the FP again...Take a good look at  Simian/Merian/Armin in context...

It appears our friend Armin had some sort of identity crisis going on here…Maybe that is why he was given weekends off as Merian, all workday daytime posts, or maybe he found his true form and was able to relax as Merian…. ::MonkeyHaHa::

Wonder if he was under the care of a professional at all...jumped right into a new nic rather quickly...twice.... ::MonkeyEek::

As well as it appears he lies...


Simian Posted: Jun 30, 4:24 PM

Mono Posted: Jun 30, 6:10 PM

Mono Posted: Jun 30, 6:20 PM

Mono Posted: Jun 30, 6:37 PM

Baboon Posted: Jul 1, 10:29 AM

Baboon Posted: Jul 1, 10:38 AM

Merian Ernest Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2005 11:30 am


Truthfully, when you look really close to what was being said and in the context of the FP it appears that Simian and his various personalties are simply part of the cover up and confusion.  Given a few things I know to be true, I would say he was not as informed as some of us would like to think.  More like he was paid to confuse and continue the conversation in the direction it was desired to go at the time. Take the heat off someone that could easily be implicated and turn it toward another person. A person that may have known much more than they said. But these are only my random thoughts and certainly nothing more.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on July 20, 2008, 07:58:30 PM
Thanks Hotping and 2NJSons...going to read the FP again...Take a good look at  Simian/Merian/Armin in context...

It appears our friend Armin had some sort of identity crisis going on here…Maybe that is why he was given weekends off as Merian, all workday daytime posts, or maybe he found his true form and was able to relax as Merian…. ::MonkeyHaHa::

Wonder if he was under the care of a professional at all...jumped right into a new nic rather quickly...twice.... ::MonkeyEek::

As well as it appears he lies...


Simian Posted: Jun 30, 4:24 PM

Mono Posted: Jun 30, 6:10 PM

Mono Posted: Jun 30, 6:20 PM

Mono Posted: Jun 30, 6:37 PM

Baboon Posted: Jul 1, 10:29 AM

Baboon Posted: Jul 1, 10:38 AM

Merian Ernest Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2005 11:30 am


Truthfully, when you look really close to what was being said and in the context of the FP it appears that Simian and his various personalties are simply part of the cover up and confusion.  Given a few things I know to be true, I would say he was not as informed as some of us would like to think.  More like he was paid to confuse and continue the conversation in the direction it was desired to go at the time. Take the heat off someone that could easily be implicated and turn it toward another person. A person that may have known much more than they said. But these are only my random thoughts and certainly nothing more.


 ::MonkeyHaHa:: Check MBOX....


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on July 20, 2008, 09:13:56 PM
Just finished reading 950 odd FP posts and totally agree with Lala’s…Armin was paid to post, confuse, misinform and discredit the US networks.

He says Natalee’s parents were being interviewed by the FBI, the night before, but Aruban posted he just heard they were being interviewed right then. In fact they both gave statements the next day. Maybe this is where Simian got his “reports ahead of time” from. Only thing, Aruban heard it too.

He posts on a theory he heard, but doesn’t want to share and doesn’t answer the poster’s pleas for a response…“Across the pond”…never answered any posters…just let them speculate…for a while the boyfriend was from MB…more confusion…In later postings he will use this interpretation of “across the pond”.

Posters were posting that Fox and CNN had been saying Joran was changing his story again…Simian said: Joran has shut down.

Quote Lala’s

Take the heat off someone that could easily be implicated and turn it toward another person. A person that may have known much more than they said.

As Merian he pointed directly towards Freddy as the 5th suspect with the famous pic, but he led us away from another person.

So was it Paulus?


And, JMO, after seeing all the pics of Freddy posing, Freddy was paid well, as well!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on July 23, 2008, 08:36:03 AM
More on Simian’s posts…From the FP on June 22nd. 2005

“Your post is awaiting moderation”
“Your post is awaiting moderation”
“Can’t say what I want”…

LOL…So intelligent he needed another poster to point out that he couldn’t post the word “casino”… ::MonkeyHaHa::

Hmmmm…I wonder why he waited so long to answer other posters about the “theory” going around the island.

Anyone have any ideas on whom Aruban was?  Pro Sloot or just a poster?  TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on July 25, 2008, 10:05:10 AM

Took this from the “Questions for Art Wood thread”…Tyler’s transcript…

The gardener witness. Did he ever take a lie detector test. Is he deemed to be credible. Was it because he could not identify Satish. Could it have been Freddy? Absolutely. Gardener is credible. This is the original Carlos the gardener, young man, early 20s. Art found him very honest and sincere. I believed him. I am very sure this guy was honest. He was afraid to come forward because he is a gardener. This Carlos the gardener told Art (Art found him) through an interpreter. YOu could tell he was sincere. "I saw them searching by the fisherman's huts, they had a big search party, police and everybody and I was driving to work and I wanted to tell them "No, go over here." He told his employer. Carlos was not interviewed until August and he told his employer about this in June. Employer backed this up. He works for a family on the island and I think he would be an excellent witness. He could not identify Satish but could identify Baby Huey and Deepak. He said whoever was in the back seat, got down. It turns out it could be Freddy and I Have seen interviews in which it talks about the fact Paulus got attorneys for these kids the first week in June before they were arrested. Paulus got Freddy an attorney in June and Freddy was not arrested until September. That tells you a lot. Art believes Freddy is one of the five. Carlos the Gardener is a valuable witness.

More that makes Freddy #5…

Steve Croes arrested early morning of June 17th. (#4)  Freddy questioned June 17th. and not again until June 28th. ALE does not appear to question Freddy while he is under their care. But on 6/23 at 13.55, the “description” states that Karen is a friend of Van der Sloot and Arambatzis. The time for Paulus shows 14.30. Freddy #5, Paulus #6.

Name: Karen Martina
Date: 23 June 200513:55
Pages: 6
Writer/Initiator: Dennis Jacobs / Juan Boezem
Description: witness statement by a friend of Van der Sloot and Arrambatzis

Name: Paulus van der Sloot
Date: 23 June 2005 / 14:30
Pages: 13
Writer/Initiator: Roland Tromp
Description: transcript of interrogation
Responsive to Request 41


Or does it?
 ::MonkeyConfused::
If there was in fact an arrest on June 11th….and if we also look at why the same type descriptions also apply to Koen, Sander’s statement of 6/16, and Guido, Urban Croes – 6/21 statement…






Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on July 25, 2008, 08:05:00 PM
LOL  That darn 5th suspect again. LOL

Simian points to a 5th suspect that had an alibi, so tight, so tight...and Merian points to Freddy (whose hand on the shoulder).  So does Baboon or Mono ever point to anyone? 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on July 25, 2008, 08:25:09 PM
LOL  That darn 5th suspect again. LOL

Simian points to a 5th suspect that had an alibi, so tight, so tight...and Merian points to Freddy (whose hand on the shoulder).  So does Baboon or Mono ever point to anyone? 

Mono doesn't speak English...this is far as I got with the translations a while back... ::MonkeyHaHa::

Mono was only 2 hours after his last Simian post...

Baboon just sounds like Simian! More on the Dutch Marines, I wonder why Merian misled us on that?


 Name: Mono | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
El Mono no hace predicciones. Solo pasa informacion. Chica Nueva, no pongas tus pantaletas en un nudo.
Posted Jun 30, 6:10 PM

 Name Mono | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
Claro que lo de tus pataletas era en broma. No hay vaqueros en la costa. Se dice que se estan acostando muy tempranos. Este cuenta va a tomar una vuelta inesperada muy pronto.
Posted Jun 30, 6:20 PM |

Clear que will de tus temper tantrums almost provided that gag. Not hay cowboys provided that la abdomen/belly/dermatology.(could be skin) Se dice que se estan acostando muy tempranos. Always calculate va owing to take una about face sudden likely soon.


Name: Mono | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
El Mono se canso. De impostores y de imitadores.
Posted Jun 30, 6:37 PM

Name: Baboon | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
Nurse:
Transporting Aruban marines? Would you mean Dutch Marines?
The US Coast Guard, FOL, Dutch Marines and the Aruban Coast Guard work together to counter drug-trafficking. Why would that be funny?
Posted Jul 1, 10:29 AM

 Name: Baboon | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
The FBI was with a group in Aruba. Some left, some stayed.
There is no plea barganing in Aruba or the Dutch Kingdom. What they do is reduced sentences for the for the lesser crimes.
The case where the gentleman was “beheaded” was solved. The girl was picked up and she is awaiting for her charges and subsequent trial.
A case of a drive-by shooting was also solved and the involved have been arrested. Nobody was killed they just shot in the air. One is the son of really, really rich and influential people in Aruba. Not like Joran, which by Aruban standards is just the son of a judicial employee.
Some have to start coming to grips that maybe something else happened to the girl.
Posted Jul 1, 10:38 AM 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: finngirl on July 25, 2008, 11:59:47 PM

my mono translation, FWIW  :wink:

Name: Mono | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
El Mono no hace predicciones. Solo pasa informacion. Chica Nueva, no pongas tus pantaletas en un nudo.
Posted Jun 30, 6:10 PM

the monkey doesn't make predictions. only passes information. new girl, don't get your panties in a wad


Name Mono | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
Claro que lo de tus pataletas era en broma. No hay vaqueros en la costa. Se dice que se estan acostando muy tempranos. Este cuenta va a tomar una vuelta inesperada muy pronto.
Posted Jun 30, 6:20 PM |

clearly that business about your tantrums was a joke. there aren't cattlemen/cattle tenders (cowboys) on the coast/seashore. it is said/one says that they are laying down/going to bed (quitting) early. this account/story is going to take a very unexpected (re)turn very soon


Name: Mono | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
El Mono se canso. De impostores y de imitadores.
Posted Jun 30, 6:37 PM

the monkey is tired. of imposters and imitators



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on July 26, 2008, 09:59:59 AM
Hi Finngirl...You are welcome to have a shot at these as well... ::MonkeyHaHa::

Just skimmed the part up to where Simian posts, but did not see anything in reference to “the music man” or a lettuce for that matter…LOL

There was a lot of garbage going on through this thread, trolls, and I did find out that one "Aruban" was a troll.

Simian was being ignored. Only a few posters acknowledged his posts. Then it was suggested he would return under a new nic…and he did…Mono…
 ::MonkeyHaHa::

BTW...all Simian's posts on that thread were verified as "real Simian posts". After this thread he became Baboon.

Simian on June 30th, 2005 4:24 pm
The music man will lose to a lettuce at a spelling bee. Do not accuse the man of being special.

Jake on June 30th, 2005 5:16 pm
Rach-what’s up with Sim? I don’t think anyone pays much attention to him anymore like before! right?

Rachael on June 30th, 2005 5:18 pm
Jake, I don’t think anyone takes Simian serious anymore because there have been so many imposters of him

concerned4natalee on June 30th, 2005 5:23 pm
rachel- i agree

new girl on June 30th, 2005 5:40 pm
Greetings folks…
This new Simian is not the “real” Simian. This new Simian’s verbiage is littered with Americanisms. I doubt Arubans use the abbreviation “i.e.” which was used by a Simian poster today. Also, he’s made two Yale/Ivy League references (”Skull & Bones-like secret society”, “Ivy intelligence”), a reference to the state bird of Alabama, and he now seems to be suggesting that people turn their focus in the EXACT OPPOSITE direction than the original Simian.
Furthermore, today’s Simian refused to respond to questions in Spanish, unlike original Simian, and ignored 2 questions about where the searchers were today, which is precisely the type of info that original Simian had access to.
I think Simian got pissed about the imposters and is gone. If he comes back, I think it will be under a different name.

Mono on June 30th, 2005 6:10 pm
El Mono no hace predicciones. Solo pasa informacion. Chica Nueva, no pongas tus pantaletas en un nudo.

new girl on June 30th, 2005 6:16 pm
Wow, mono - that was rude! Don’t worry about my panties, eh? You are the one who sounds bothered.
New Girl “solo pasa informacion” tambien.

Mono on June 30th, 2005 6:20 pm
Claro que lo de tus pataletas era en broma. No hay vaqueros en la costa. Se dice que se estan acostando muy tempranos. Este cuenta va a tomar una vuelta inesperada muy pronto.

new girl on June 30th, 2005 6:25 pm
Mono, it has been many years since I spoke Spanish, but I can try:
Quiero aprender la verdad. Si usted puede proporcionarlo, soy agradecido.

new girl on June 30th, 2005 6:29 pm
Mono, si usted es el Simian, estoy alegre usted he vuelto.
Okay, I admit I am using a translator to help me out here, pero soy una muchacha americana perezosa -  ¿quà © puede usted esperar?
: )

new girl on June 30th, 2005 6:34 pm
 ¿Mono, donde esta?  ¿Leyà ³ los mensajes a partir del ayer por la noche?

Mono on June 30th, 2005 6:37 pm
El Mono se canso. De impostores y de imitadores.

new girl on June 30th, 2005 6:42 pm
Comprendo su frustracià ³n. Pero deseamos que usted permanecerà a con nosotros. Por favor…
(I am guessing “permanecerà a” might be the wrong verb, but I hope it is close enough)

AnnaMaria on June 30th, 2005 6:49 pm

 ¿Nuevo y mono, usted realiza que la gente puede seguir el gist de su conversacià ³n cueste lo que cueste, a la derecha? BTW, convengo. El deseo mono permanecerà a con nosotros.

new girl on June 30th, 2005 7:17 pm
Anna y “el Mono”-
Creo que he encontrado la discusià ³n que usted ha mencionado. Le buscarà © ambos en ese lugar.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on July 26, 2008, 02:01:10 PM
Simian Says: June 28th, 2005 at 1:52 am
The Simian says that The Simian only reports developments ahead of time. The Simian thinks was is going on is shameless. Playing with feelings.
Th Simian’s umbilical is buried close to the heart of the island. NOBODY EVER try to put us down. The Simian hates what he has been reading.
All things must pass.


Finngirl translation:
Name: Mono | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
El Mono no hace predicciones. Solo pasa informacion. Chica Nueva, no pongas tus pantaletas en un nudo.
Posted Jun 30, 6:10 PM

the monkey doesn't make predictions. only passes information. new girl, don't get your panties in a wad



Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 3:51 pm
There is no plea bargaining in the Aruban legal system.

Name: Baboon | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
The FBI was with a group in Aruba. Some left, some stayed.
There is no plea barganing in Aruba or the Dutch Kingdom. What they do is reduced sentences for the for the lesser crimes.






Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on July 26, 2008, 02:16:48 PM
Hi Lala’s…found the thread after Mono…New girl and AnnaMarie were the only ones asking about Mono, one or two posts about not the real Simian, which it was in the previous thread.

All the talk was about Shango…no wonder Simian never came back as Simian.

new girl on June 30th, 2005 7:49 pm
Anna? Mono?  ¿Dà ³nde estan? Le busquà © ambos, pero no puedo encontrarle.

AnnaMaria on June 30th, 2005 8:32 pm
New Girl: I’m here. I was looking through some “party” pics from G2G 5 that was held on May 27, 05. Three pics are completely missing from the order of things, which is weird. Also, did you notice at those rave sites that it’s often the same people, esp. the same DJ’s and radio station

new girl on June 30th, 2005 10:36 pm
AnnaMaria, what happened to our new friend Mono? Did you find a discussion thread? I tried to look there, but there are so many strangers - any not much Spanish..

AnnaMaria on June 30th, 2005 10:47 pm
Hiya Newgirl -nothing from Mono. Silencio.
Chimes - are you going to share the link/info or just with subdude? Not to be nosy. Just have to give up the pc at 11 tonight and don’t want to miss info if it’s coming.
Subdude - a few more media contacts and Greta’s next story will be all about these bloggy people now roomin’ in padded cells. : )

AnnaMaria on June 30th, 2005 11:11 pm
And where have our whispering monkey natives disappeared to, anyway? All of them are gone, unless you guys know better and they just have new names. That wasn’t Simian, today — the new Sim is pointing the finger towards Alabama, instead. Did they all just get fed up with the trolls?
BTW, I’ve been hoodwinked into forfeiting the computer. Off to bed. Good luck and I hope Tom and Red leave this board through tomorrow.




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on July 26, 2008, 02:19:40 PM
Why did Mono refuse to speak English?  We know he can speak several languages.  Another means to confuse the situation.  These multiple personalities makes me wonder what other names Shango posted under?  If he/she didn't I wonder why?  It was so easy to do on the FP.  They were monitored, but I doubt they were held to account for their multiple nicknames.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on July 26, 2008, 02:22:00 PM
AnnaMaria on June 30th, 2005 11:11 pm
And where have our whispering monkey natives disappeared to, anyway? All of them are gone, unless you guys know better and they just have new names. That wasn’t Simian, today — the new Sim is pointing the finger towards Alabama, instead. Did they all just get fed up with the trolls?
BTW, I’ve been hoodwinked into forfeiting the computer. Off to bed. Good luck and I hope Tom and Red leave this board through tomorrow.



It appears that AnnaMaria thought this new Simian was not the right one, which post is she saying was not Simian?  Do you know? TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on July 26, 2008, 02:41:30 PM
AnnaMaria on June 30th, 2005 11:11 pm
And where have our whispering monkey natives disappeared to, anyway? All of them are gone, unless you guys know better and they just have new names. That wasn’t Simian, today — the new Sim is pointing the finger towards Alabama, instead. Did they all just get fed up with the trolls?
BTW, I’ve been hoodwinked into forfeiting the computer. Off to bed. Good luck and I hope Tom and Red leave this board through tomorrow.



It appears that AnnaMaria thought this new Simian was not the right one, which post is she saying was not Simian?  Do you know? TIA



YEP!   Ivy League qualified...IQ 149 references ::MonkeyHaHa::



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on July 26, 2008, 02:42:38 PM
Simian Says: June 28th, 2005 at 1:43 am
The Simian has a handicap of 12.


Merian Ernest Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 5:43 pm Post subject: Ingrown nails and bruised
toes hiding under black togas....
Look for counsels tomorrow getting off on tainted stories and rotten reputations.

Phones hacked by the babylonian hand. 112 pieces of the puzzle that don't fit.

The well is full of technicalities. Do not be surprised. Merian has been right before.

Hmmmm. Likes to use numbers too. LOL


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on July 26, 2008, 02:44:33 PM
Merian Ernest Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:33 pm Post subject: Not true...
Sorry miamiMD. That is not true. Unlike other parts of the world we do not put victims
on trial in the Aruba/Dutch system.

The only question that must be asked is: was there a crime?

That is it. The calls made between the Kalpoes and Joran only substantiate the brothers'
claims. They just gave Joran and his girlfriend a ride. The two were necking in the
backseat and the older Kalpoe said he didn't find that cool.

Joran has testified that he did have sex with Natalee on the beach and that he left her
there. He walked home and got there in 40 minutes. Which also coincides with his logging
on his computer and the distance it takes to get to his house.

This has all been reported in the news in Aruba.

For some reason the mother claims the girl is/was a virgin. and she didn't drink either.
All other accounts state the opposite.

What is wrong?


When were the phone records released? Anyone?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on July 26, 2008, 02:46:15 PM
AnnaMaria on June 30th, 2005 11:11 pm
And where have our whispering monkey natives disappeared to, anyway? All of them are gone, unless you guys know better and they just have new names. That wasn’t Simian, today — the new Sim is pointing the finger towards Alabama, instead. Did they all just get fed up with the trolls?
BTW, I’ve been hoodwinked into forfeiting the computer. Off to bed. Good luck and I hope Tom and Red leave this board through tomorrow.



It appears that AnnaMaria thought this new Simian was not the right one, which post is she saying was not Simian?  Do you know? TIA



YEP!   Ivy League qualified...IQ 149 references ::MonkeyHaHa::



Reason I asked was because we know they were Simian posts, so that tells me that Newgirl and Annamaria didn't know too much about the real Simian as they have claimed.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on July 26, 2008, 02:49:19 PM
AnnaMaria on June 30th, 2005 11:11 pm
And where have our whispering monkey natives disappeared to, anyway? All of them are gone, unless you guys know better and they just have new names. That wasn’t Simian, today — the new Sim is pointing the finger towards Alabama, instead. Did they all just get fed up with the trolls?
BTW, I’ve been hoodwinked into forfeiting the computer. Off to bed. Good luck and I hope Tom and Red leave this board through tomorrow.



It appears that AnnaMaria thought this new Simian was not the right one, which post is she saying was not Simian?  Do you know? TIA



YEP!   Ivy League qualified...IQ 149 references ::MonkeyHaHa::



Lala's she said it twice...It was June 30th...last posts before Mono...do you need the link?  I think that was the IQ one...will check....Darn I hope I can find the other one...no Simian or Shango posts on that one...which is the one you posted on AnnaMarie...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on July 26, 2008, 02:49:26 PM
Simian Says: June 28th, 2005 at 2:01 am
The Simian is getting out. Knows Shango, knows Shock me, knows Checkme. Do not underestimate the power of the ping.


Sounds like a threat to me.  HMMMMM.

Now, who is Shock and Chekme? Ideas?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on July 26, 2008, 02:51:33 PM
AnnaMaria on June 30th, 2005 11:11 pm
And where have our whispering monkey natives disappeared to, anyway? All of them are gone, unless you guys know better and they just have new names. That wasn’t Simian, today — the new Sim is pointing the finger towards Alabama, instead. Did they all just get fed up with the trolls?
BTW, I’ve been hoodwinked into forfeiting the computer. Off to bed. Good luck and I hope Tom and Red leave this board through tomorrow.



It appears that AnnaMaria thought this new Simian was not the right one, which post is she saying was not Simian?  Do you know? TIA



YEP!   Ivy League qualified...IQ 149 references ::MonkeyHaHa::



Reason I asked was because we know they were Simian posts, so that tells me that Newgirl and Annamaria didn't know too much about the real Simian as they have claimed.


But they were the only posters that took any notice of Mono...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on July 26, 2008, 02:51:49 PM
If I say Simian and mean Mono then I guess I really mean Baboon or Merian. LMAO!  They should have more psychiatrists than lawyers in Aruba with all these personalities running around.  :roll:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on July 26, 2008, 02:54:00 PM
AnnaMaria on June 30th, 2005 11:11 pm
And where have our whispering monkey natives disappeared to, anyway? All of them are gone, unless you guys know better and they just have new names. That wasn’t Simian, today — the new Sim is pointing the finger towards Alabama, instead. Did they all just get fed up with the trolls?
BTW, I’ve been hoodwinked into forfeiting the computer. Off to bed. Good luck and I hope Tom and Red leave this board through tomorrow.



It appears that AnnaMaria thought this new Simian was not the right one, which post is she saying was not Simian?  Do you know? TIA



YEP!   Ivy League qualified...IQ 149 references ::MonkeyHaHa::



Reason I asked was because we know they were Simian posts, so that tells me that Newgirl and Annamaria didn't know too much about the real Simian as they have claimed.


But they were the only posters that took any notice of Mono...

That's right!  Mono had not said very much of interest at this point so did they know who he was and was trying to help him out and get the interest away from Shango OR did they have no clue and were just curious.  What did Mono say that would make his posts of any value compared to Shango?  I think one of those two knew who he was because he told them.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on July 26, 2008, 03:02:10 PM
Simian Says: June 28th, 2005 at 2:01 am
The Simian is getting out. Knows Shango, knows Shock me, knows Checkme. Do not underestimate the power of the ping.


Sounds like a threat to me.  HMMMMM.

Now, who is Shock and Chekme? Ideas?

Checkme...friend of Paulus...connection - beach tennis, they know each other, probably AHATA - Zeolla or Purcell...my guess Mark Purcell.(Only because I think there may be a florida connection...Jacksonville)

I remember I concluded not Aruban or Dutch...left me with an American.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on July 26, 2008, 03:06:27 PM
AnnaMaria on June 30th, 2005 11:11 pm
And where have our whispering monkey natives disappeared to, anyway? All of them are gone, unless you guys know better and they just have new names. That wasn’t Simian, today — the new Sim is pointing the finger towards Alabama, instead. Did they all just get fed up with the trolls?
BTW, I’ve been hoodwinked into forfeiting the computer. Off to bed. Good luck and I hope Tom and Red leave this board through tomorrow.



It appears that AnnaMaria thought this new Simian was not the right one, which post is she saying was not Simian?  Do you know? TIA



YEP!   Ivy League qualified...IQ 149 references ::MonkeyHaHa::



Reason I asked was because we know they were Simian posts, so that tells me that Newgirl and Annamaria didn't know too much about the real Simian as they have claimed.


But they were the only posters that took any notice of Mono...

That's right!  Mono had not said very much of interest at this point so did they know who he was and was trying to help him out and get the interest away from Shango OR did they have no clue and were just curious.  What did Mono say that would make his posts of any value compared to Shango?  I think one of those two knew who he was because he told them.

Mono only posted those 3 posts...which Finngirl translated...were they Pap? New girl responded in whatever language they were...LOL...If pap, she had to be Aruban!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on July 26, 2008, 03:10:35 PM
OK..This is why AnnaMarie thought it was not the real Simian:  she asked what happened to Simian's email routine and this is Simian's response.

Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
Annamaria, the Simian really does not understand the e-mail routine. The Simian has been in a fox-hole for a couple of days. The doppelganger was very fastidious.
The Simian is for real. The Simian doesn’t have much respect for Shango.
Listen to the Simian when he says that the federales are looking at the many forked tongues that live where the Yellowhammer calls home.
PS it is 149. Ivy cualified.
Posted Jun 30, 3:36 PM | Edit Comment | Delete Comment | Edit Post “Kalpoe Family Denied Texas EquuSearch From Searching Around Their House” | View Post


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on July 26, 2008, 03:15:14 PM
And that brings me to ask...who was she?  This one should be easy for all the Shangoheads. LOL


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on July 26, 2008, 03:22:38 PM
Baboon Posts...Appears Baboon was wrong with his first post...

Second post is only explaining no plea bargaining, in response to other posters.

nursebeeme on July 1st, 2005 10:18 am

Kris,
hahaha…..it is 1600 here in Germany. I need my second round of coffee or my first round of happy hour. Since it is friday I think I will opt on the second. Did you guys hear about the boat that had a ton of cocaine on it that was seized by US? Funny thing, it also was transporting the Aruban marines!

nursebeeme on July 1st, 2005 10:26 am
hope, I think someone from aruba blogged it in because it was in kilograms and she translated the amount into about a ton.
Hi Gagirl! I really liked the stuff you put up on the code

Baboon on July 1st, 2005 10:29 am
Nurse:
Transporting Aruban marines? Would you mean Dutch Marines?
The US Coast Guard, FOL, Dutch Marines and the Aruban Coast Guard work together to counter drug-trafficking. Why would that be funny?

nursebeeme on July 1st, 2005 10:32 am
Baboon,
there was supposedly cocaine seized on board the ship that was transporting the dutch marines (per newsupdate from someone in aruba on other message board). it hadn’t been seized previously….it was seized.. (just passing on new news from the other message board)



Baboon on July 1st, 2005 10:38 am
The FBI was with a group in Aruba. Some left, some stayed.
There is no plea barganing in Aruba or the Dutch Kingdom. What they do is reduced sentences for the for the lesser crimes.
The case where the gentleman was “beheaded” was solved. The girl was picked up and she is awaiting for her charges and subsequent trial.
A case of a drive-by shooting was also solved and the involved have been arrested. Nobody was killed they just shot in the air. One is the son of really, really rich and influential people in Aruba. Not like Joran, which by Aruban standards is just the son of a judicial employee.
Some have to start coming to grips that maybe something else happened to the girl.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on July 26, 2008, 03:26:05 PM
And that brings me to ask...who was she?  This one should be easy for all the Shangoheads. LOL

LOL...Not fair...you gave a pre-schooler a first grade question! ::MonkeyConfused::

Give me a bit...I might have a lightbulb moment!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on July 26, 2008, 03:29:58 PM
And that brings me to ask...who was she?  This one should be easy for all the Shangoheads. LOL

Lala's are you saying that Simian and AnnaMarie had email contact before Simian would post? This time Simian didn't do it, so AnnaMarie thought he was a fake?  TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on July 26, 2008, 03:36:39 PM
Hi Finngirl...You are welcome to have a shot at these as well... ::MonkeyHaHa::

Just skimmed the part up to where Simian posts, but did not see anything in reference to “the music man” or a lettuce for that matter…LOL

There was a lot of garbage going on through this thread, trolls, and I did find out that one "Aruban" was a troll.

Simian was being ignored. Only a few posters acknowledged his posts. Then it was suggested he would return under a new nic…and he did…Mono…
 ::MonkeyHaHa::

BTW...all Simian's posts on that thread were verified as "real Simian posts". After this thread he became Baboon.

Simian on June 30th, 2005 4:24 pm
The music man will lose to a lettuce at a spelling bee. Do not accuse the man of being special.

Jake on June 30th, 2005 5:16 pm
Rach-what’s up with Sim? I don’t think anyone pays much attention to him anymore like before! right?

Rachael on June 30th, 2005 5:18 pm
Jake, I don’t think anyone takes Simian serious anymore because there have been so many imposters of him

concerned4natalee on June 30th, 2005 5:23 pm
rachel- i agree

new girl on June 30th, 2005 5:40 pm
Greetings folks…
This new Simian is not the “real” Simian. This new Simian’s verbiage is littered with Americanisms. I doubt Arubans use the abbreviation “i.e.” which was used by a Simian poster today. Also, he’s made two Yale/Ivy League references (”Skull & Bones-like secret society”, “Ivy intelligence”), a reference to the state bird of Alabama, and he now seems to be suggesting that people turn their focus in the EXACT OPPOSITE direction than the original Simian.
Furthermore, today’s Simian refused to respond to questions in Spanish, unlike original Simian, and ignored 2 questions about where the searchers were today, which is precisely the type of info that original Simian had access to.
I think Simian got pissed about the imposters and is gone. If he comes back, I think it will be under a different name.

Mono on June 30th, 2005 6:10 pm

El Mono no hace predicciones. Solo pasa informacion. Chica Nueva, no pongas tus pantaletas en un nudo.

new girl on June 30th, 2005 6:16 pm
Wow, mono - that was rude! Don’t worry about my panties, eh? You are the one who sounds bothered.
New Girl “solo pasa informacion” tambien.

Mono on June 30th, 2005 6:20 pm
Claro que lo de tus pataletas era en broma. No hay vaqueros en la costa. Se dice que se estan acostando muy tempranos. Este cuenta va a tomar una vuelta inesperada muy pronto.

new girl on June 30th, 2005 6:25 pm
Mono, it has been many years since I spoke Spanish, but I can try:
Quiero aprender la verdad. Si usted puede proporcionarlo, soy agradecido.

new girl on June 30th, 2005 6:29 pm
Mono, si usted es el Simian, estoy alegre usted he vuelto.
Okay, I admit I am using a translator to help me out here, pero soy una muchacha americana perezosa -  ¿quà © puede usted esperar?
: )

new girl on June 30th, 2005 6:34 pm
 ¿Mono, donde esta?  ¿Leyà ³ los mensajes a partir del ayer por la noche?

Mono on June 30th, 2005 6:37 pm
El Mono se canso. De impostores y de imitadores.

new girl on June 30th, 2005 6:42 pm
Comprendo su frustracià ³n. Pero deseamos que usted permanecerà a con nosotros. Por favor…
(I am guessing “permanecerà a” might be the wrong verb, but I hope it is close enough)

AnnaMaria on June 30th, 2005 6:49 pm

 ¿Nuevo y mono, usted realiza que la gente puede seguir el gist de su conversacià ³n cueste lo que cueste, a la derecha? BTW, convengo. El deseo mono permanecerà a con nosotros.

new girl on June 30th, 2005 7:17 pm
Anna y “el Mono”-
Creo que he encontrado la discusià ³n que usted ha mencionado. Le buscarà © ambos en ese lugar.



From the last page...new girl said as well that it was not the real Simian, said he would come back with a new name, and then both she and AnnaMarie converse with Mono...I am convinced that Simian wanted the posters to believe there was more dopplegangers than there really was...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on July 26, 2008, 03:44:49 PM
And that brings me to ask...who was she?  This one should be easy for all the Shangoheads. LOL

Lala's are you saying that Simian and AnnaMarie had email contact before Simian would post? This time Simian didn't do it, so AnnaMarie thought he was a fake?  TIA

Yep, that's what I'm saying.  You know this answer...let's see if anyone else does.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on July 26, 2008, 03:54:03 PM
Why did Mono refuse to speak English?  We know he can speak several languages.  Another means to confuse the situation.  These multiple personalities makes me wonder what other names Shango posted under?  If he/she didn't I wonder why?  It was so easy to do on the FP.  They were monitored, but I doubt they were held to account for their multiple nicknames.



Lala's...I have often wondered what other names both Simian and Shango posted under. Simian from 6/17 to 6/22.  Simian changed his name as no-one was taking any notice.  Why not English as Mono? New girl replies in Spanish? Need to run all that through a translator.

Could new girl have been Shock?  Pretty sure she just didn't disappear either...LOL


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on July 26, 2008, 04:15:49 PM
Lala's...saved these for you while I was reading...

Some on van der Straten from the FP…a little insight into the relationship between the Arubans and Dutch, the American hotel chains, and powerful families.  Does it change who we think Dirty hand is?

Maybe this is a ploy to keep van der Straten “hidden”?


subdude on June 30th, 2005 10:59 pm
Hope: It is the Polis Chief retiring unless asked to stay on, per Checkme.
Checkme: Who asks Chief to stay on? Prime Minister? Minister of Justice?

Checkme on June 30th, 2005 11:01 pm
Dude, if they ask him. But since he is of the wrong color and was an appointee of the previous (different) party he is gone. With elections coming soon, they want their guys in asap.

Checkme on June 30th, 2005 11:02 pm
but min of justice would have to ask.

Checkme on June 30th, 2005 11:05 pm
Hope you are absolutely correct. But on TV he was mentioning his pension… So I guess his contrac t was up to his pension age. But I will double check this tomorrow. The only difference this factor makes is that now this case will become an even larger political game. Bad for the investigation, exactly the same pattern as in many things here…

Checkme on June 30th, 2005 11:10 pm
new girl, the only way the Dutch benefit is keeping the Arubans happy in their own land. They would emigrate by the thousands to Holland in one month if things go sour here. But the true beneficiaries here are the American travel corporations/hotels here, none of which are owned by Arubans. Only the secondary industry are for Arubans. The major political players are of course backed by some families here, who have total control over what goes. Small island, so thi is quicly apparent. it happens all over the world but here it’s just very apparent.

Checkme on June 30th, 2005 11:12 pm
dude, yeah, PM is doing a good job, he can stay. his group is not perfect of course, but at least they are not ripping off the islanders so criminally as the previous regime.

Lucy on June 30th, 2005 11:15 pm
Subdude
But many Arubans have Babylonian last names and have been in the island for over 300 years, so they don’t sound Babylonian to me. He may be a van der Straaten whose great, great great, great grand papa arrived when the Dutch acquired the island from the Spanish.

Yliana on June 30th, 2005 11:16 pm
subdude - the police commissioner is Dutch. He’s been here in Aruba for almost 10 yrs I think.







Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: finngirl on July 26, 2008, 04:36:55 PM

Simian was being ignored. Only a few posters acknowledged his posts. Then it was suggested he would return under a new nic…and he did…Mono…

BTW...all Simian's posts on that thread were verified as "real Simian posts". After this thread he became Baboon.

sim lost status following incorrect predictions:
body recovery/TES quarry search ...
which resulted in throwdown/cat fight w/ shango

I don't put a lot of weight into real vs fake sim ...
there were five posting as bondia, LOL
and there were also two shocks/two peeps

pretty easy to use two/more email addies
and/or post from two/more locations ...
plus, not even factoring in the use of proxies
so who can really say?

:::shrugs:::

some of the foreign language posts on the FP
acquired extra characters when they were archived ...
most likely a glitch in the program

quite often it happens w/ words ending in "cion"
and I noticed other patterns as well,
but I digress ... anyway, posting clean(er) versions:
_ _ _

Name: Mono | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
El Mono no hace predicciones. Solo pasa informacion. Chica Nueva, no pongas tus pantaletas en un nudo.
Posted Jun 30, 6:10 PM

the monkey doesn't make predictions. only passes information. new girl, don't get your panties in a wad
_ _ _

new girl on June 30th, 2005 6:16 pm
Wow, mono - that was rude! Don’t worry about my panties, eh? You are the one who sounds bothered. New Girl “solo pasa informacion” tambien.

new girl only passes information also
_ _ _

Name Mono | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
Claro que lo de tus pataletas era en broma. No hay vaqueros en la costa. Se dice que se estan acostando muy tempranos. Este cuenta va a tomar una vuelta inesperada muy pronto.
Posted Jun 30, 6:20 PM |

clearly that business about your tantrums was a joke. there aren't cattlemen/cattle tenders (cowboys) on the coast/seashore. it is said/one says that they are laying down/going to bed (quitting) early. this account/story is going to take a very unexpected (re)turn very soon
_ _ _

new girl on June 30th, 2005 6:25 pm
Mono, it has been many years since I spoke Spanish, but I can try:
Quiero aprender la verdad. Si usted puede proporcionarlo, soy agradecido.

I want to find the truth. if you can provide it, I am thanked (grateful)
_ _ _

new girl on June 30th, 2005 6:29 pm
Mono, si usted es el Simian, estoy alegre usted he vuelto.

Okay, I admit I am using a translator to help me out here, pero soy una muchacha americana perezosa - puede usted esperar?

monkey, if you are the simian, I'm glad you've returned.

Okay, I admit I am using a translator to help me out here but I am a lazy American girl - (what) can you expect?
_ _ _

new girl on June 30th, 2005 6:34 pm
¿Mono, donde esta? ¿Ley los mensajes a partir del ayer por la noche?

monkey, where are you? Law the messages as of yesterday at night? wrong verb/trying to say: did you read last night's posts?
_ _ _

Name: Mono | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
El Mono se canso. De impostores y de imitadores.
Posted Jun 30, 6:37 PM

the monkey is tired. of imposters and imitators
_ _ _

new girl on June 30th, 2005 6:42 pm
Comprendo su frustracion. Pero deseamos que usted permanecer a con nosotros. Por favor…
(I am guessing “permanecer” might be the wrong verb, but I hope it is close enough)

I understand your frustration. but we want you to stay with us. please ...
_ _ _

AnnaMaria on June 30th, 2005 6:49 pm
¿Nuevo y mono, usted realiza que la gente puede seguir el gist de su conversacion cueste lo que cueste, a la derecha? BTW, convengo. El deseo mono permanecer a con nosotros.

new and monkey, you realize that people can follow the gist of his conversation at any cost, right? BTW, I agree. desire monkey to remain with us
_ _ _

new girl on June 30th, 2005 7:17 pm
Anna y “el Mono”-
Creo que he encontrado la discusion que usted ha mencionado. Le buscar ambos en ese lugar.

anna and "the monkey" -
I think I found the discussion that you mentioned. we both look at that place/both look for him in that place
_ _ _

new girl on June 30th, 2005 7:49 pm
Anna? Mono? ¿Donde estan? Le busque/busca ambos, pero no puedo encontrarle

anna? monkey? where are you? we are finding both/both seeking him, but I can't find him
_ _ _

Mono only posted those 3 posts...which Finngirl translated...were they Pap? New girl responded in whatever language they were...LOL...If pap, she had to be Aruban!

mono's posts were in spanish, which I can handle ...
finngirl has NO patience for papi, LOL



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: finngirl on July 26, 2008, 04:46:26 PM

mono: Chica Nueva, no pongas tus pantaletas en un nudo/new girl, don't get your panties in a wad

mono: Claro que lo de tus pataletas era en broma/clearly that business about your tantrums was a joke

duuuuuuuh, caught the typo 3 years later:
pantaletas vs pataletas

should be: clearly that business about your panties was a joke

 :roll:





Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on July 26, 2008, 05:33:40 PM

Simian was being ignored. Only a few posters acknowledged his posts. Then it was suggested he would return under a new nic…and he did…Mono…

BTW...all Simian's posts on that thread were verified as "real Simian posts". After this thread he became Baboon.

sim lost status following incorrect predictions:
body recovery/TES quarry search ...
which resulted in throwdown/cat fight w/ shango

I don't put a lot of weight into real vs fake sim ...
there were five posting as bondia, LOL
and there were also two shocks/two peeps

pretty easy to use two/more email addies
and/or post from two/more locations ...
plus, not even factoring in the use of proxies
so who can really say?

:::shrugs:::

some of the foreign language posts on the FP
acquired extra characters when they were archived ...
most likely a glitch in the program

quite often it happens w/ words ending in "cion"
and I noticed other patterns as well,
but I digress ... anyway, posting clean(er) versions:
_ _ _

Name: Mono | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
El Mono no hace predicciones. Solo pasa informacion. Chica Nueva, no pongas tus pantaletas en un nudo.
Posted Jun 30, 6:10 PM

the monkey doesn't make predictions. only passes information. new girl, don't get your panties in a wad
_ _ _

new girl on June 30th, 2005 6:16 pm
Wow, mono - that was rude! Don’t worry about my panties, eh? You are the one who sounds bothered. New Girl “solo pasa informacion” tambien.

new girl only passes information also
_ _ _

Name Mono | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
Claro que lo de tus pataletas era en broma. No hay vaqueros en la costa. Se dice que se estan acostando muy tempranos. Este cuenta va a tomar una vuelta inesperada muy pronto.
Posted Jun 30, 6:20 PM |

clearly that business about your tantrums was a joke. there aren't cattlemen/cattle tenders (cowboys) on the coast/seashore. it is said/one says that they are laying down/going to bed (quitting) early. this account/story is going to take a very unexpected (re)turn very soon
_ _ _

new girl on June 30th, 2005 6:25 pm
Mono, it has been many years since I spoke Spanish, but I can try:
Quiero aprender la verdad. Si usted puede proporcionarlo, soy agradecido.

I want to find the truth. if you can provide it, I am thanked (grateful)
_ _ _

new girl on June 30th, 2005 6:29 pm
Mono, si usted es el Simian, estoy alegre usted he vuelto.

Okay, I admit I am using a translator to help me out here, pero soy una muchacha americana perezosa - puede usted esperar?

monkey, if you are the simian, I'm glad you've returned.

Okay, I admit I am using a translator to help me out here but I am a lazy American girl - (what) can you expect?
_ _ _

new girl on June 30th, 2005 6:34 pm
¿Mono, donde esta? ¿Ley los mensajes a partir del ayer por la noche?

monkey, where are you? Law the messages as of yesterday at night? wrong verb/trying to say: did you read last night's posts?
_ _ _

Name: Mono | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
El Mono se canso. De impostores y de imitadores.
Posted Jun 30, 6:37 PM

the monkey is tired. of imposters and imitators
_ _ _

new girl on June 30th, 2005 6:42 pm
Comprendo su frustracion. Pero deseamos que usted permanecer a con nosotros. Por favor…
(I am guessing “permanecer” might be the wrong verb, but I hope it is close enough)

I understand your frustration. but we want you to stay with us. please ...
_ _ _

AnnaMaria on June 30th, 2005 6:49 pm
¿Nuevo y mono, usted realiza que la gente puede seguir el gist de su conversacion cueste lo que cueste, a la derecha? BTW, convengo. El deseo mono permanecer a con nosotros.

new and monkey, you realize that people can follow the gist of his conversation at any cost, right? BTW, I agree. desire monkey to remain with us
_ _ _

new girl on June 30th, 2005 7:17 pm
Anna y “el Mono”-
Creo que he encontrado la discusion que usted ha mencionado. Le buscar ambos en ese lugar.

anna and "the monkey" -
I think I found the discussion that you mentioned. we both look at that place/both look for him in that place
_ _ _

new girl on June 30th, 2005 7:49 pm
Anna? Mono? ¿Donde estan? Le busque/busca ambos, pero no puedo encontrarle

anna? monkey? where are you? we are finding both/both seeking him, but I can't find him
_ _ _

Mono only posted those 3 posts...which Finngirl translated...were they Pap? New girl responded in whatever language they were...LOL...If pap, she had to be Aruban!

mono's posts were in spanish, which I can handle ...
finngirl has NO patience for papi, LOL




Thanks Finn...much appreciated....


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on July 26, 2008, 06:54:04 PM
Lala's...saved these for you while I was reading...

Some on van der Straten from the FP…a little insight into the relationship between the Arubans and Dutch, the American hotel chains, and powerful families.  Does it change who we think Dirty hand is?

Maybe this is a ploy to keep van der Straten “hidden”?


subdude on June 30th, 2005 10:59 pm
Hope: It is the Polis Chief retiring unless asked to stay on, per Checkme.
Checkme: Who asks Chief to stay on? Prime Minister? Minister of Justice?

Checkme on June 30th, 2005 11:01 pm
Dude, if they ask him. But since he is of the wrong color and was an appointee of the previous (different) party he is gone. With elections coming soon, they want their guys in asap.

Checkme on June 30th, 2005 11:02 pm
but min of justice would have to ask.

Checkme on June 30th, 2005 11:05 pm
Hope you are absolutely correct. But on TV he was mentioning his pension… So I guess his contrac t was up to his pension age. But I will double check this tomorrow. The only difference this factor makes is that now this case will become an even larger political game. Bad for the investigation, exactly the same pattern as in many things here…

Checkme on June 30th, 2005 11:10 pm
new girl, the only way the Dutch benefit is keeping the Arubans happy in their own land. They would emigrate by the thousands to Holland in one month if things go sour here. But the true beneficiaries here are the American travel corporations/hotels here, none of which are owned by Arubans. Only the secondary industry are for Arubans. The major political players are of course backed by some families here, who have total control over what goes. Small island, so thi is quicly apparent. it happens all over the world but here it’s just very apparent.

Checkme on June 30th, 2005 11:12 pm
dude, yeah, PM is doing a good job, he can stay. his group is not perfect of course, but at least they are not ripping off the islanders so criminally as the previous regime.

Lucy on June 30th, 2005 11:15 pm
Subdude
But many Arubans have Babylonian last names and have been in the island for over 300 years, so they don’t sound Babylonian to me. He may be a van der Straaten whose great, great great, great grand papa arrived when the Dutch acquired the island from the Spanish.

Yliana on June 30th, 2005 11:16 pm
subdude - the police commissioner is Dutch. He’s been here in Aruba for almost 10 yrs I think.







Don't know who you think is Dirty Hand.  So I can't say there.  I really have not changed my thoughts on this since the beginning, but then what do I know?

One thing to notice would be that Checkme is obviously supportive of the MEP.  Thought they were "less corrupt" than the previous regime.  Now what does that tell you? Who was the previous regime?  Who would that be? 

I have discovered that each of these posters, this would probably apply to everyone one of us here too, give away clues as to who they are.  It's human nature when you are conversing to tell or indicate things that could lead an astute investigator to reliable speculation on the identity of each person.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on July 26, 2008, 06:55:35 PM

Simian was being ignored. Only a few posters acknowledged his posts. Then it was suggested he would return under a new nic…and he did…Mono…

BTW...all Simian's posts on that thread were verified as "real Simian posts". After this thread he became Baboon.

sim lost status following incorrect predictions:
body recovery/TES quarry search ...
which resulted in throwdown/cat fight w/ shango

I don't put a lot of weight into real vs fake sim ...
there were five posting as bondia, LOL
and there were also two shocks/two peeps

pretty easy to use two/more email addies
and/or post from two/more locations ...
plus, not even factoring in the use of proxies
so who can really say?

:::shrugs:::

some of the foreign language posts on the FP
acquired extra characters when they were archived ...
most likely a glitch in the program

quite often it happens w/ words ending in "cion"
and I noticed other patterns as well,
but I digress ... anyway, posting clean(er) versions:
_ _ _

Name: Mono | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
El Mono no hace predicciones. Solo pasa informacion. Chica Nueva, no pongas tus pantaletas en un nudo.
Posted Jun 30, 6:10 PM

the monkey doesn't make predictions. only passes information. new girl, don't get your panties in a wad
_ _ _

new girl on June 30th, 2005 6:16 pm
Wow, mono - that was rude! Don’t worry about my panties, eh? You are the one who sounds bothered. New Girl “solo pasa informacion” tambien.

new girl only passes information also
_ _ _

Name Mono | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
Claro que lo de tus pataletas era en broma. No hay vaqueros en la costa. Se dice que se estan acostando muy tempranos. Este cuenta va a tomar una vuelta inesperada muy pronto.
Posted Jun 30, 6:20 PM |

clearly that business about your tantrums was a joke. there aren't cattlemen/cattle tenders (cowboys) on the coast/seashore. it is said/one says that they are laying down/going to bed (quitting) early. this account/story is going to take a very unexpected (re)turn very soon
_ _ _

new girl on June 30th, 2005 6:25 pm
Mono, it has been many years since I spoke Spanish, but I can try:
Quiero aprender la verdad. Si usted puede proporcionarlo, soy agradecido.

I want to find the truth. if you can provide it, I am thanked (grateful)
_ _ _

new girl on June 30th, 2005 6:29 pm
Mono, si usted es el Simian, estoy alegre usted he vuelto.

Okay, I admit I am using a translator to help me out here, pero soy una muchacha americana perezosa - puede usted esperar?

monkey, if you are the simian, I'm glad you've returned.

Okay, I admit I am using a translator to help me out here but I am a lazy American girl - (what) can you expect?
_ _ _

new girl on June 30th, 2005 6:34 pm
¿Mono, donde esta? ¿Ley los mensajes a partir del ayer por la noche?

monkey, where are you? Law the messages as of yesterday at night? wrong verb/trying to say: did you read last night's posts?
_ _ _

Name: Mono | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
El Mono se canso. De impostores y de imitadores.
Posted Jun 30, 6:37 PM

the monkey is tired. of imposters and imitators
_ _ _

new girl on June 30th, 2005 6:42 pm
Comprendo su frustracion. Pero deseamos que usted permanecer a con nosotros. Por favor…
(I am guessing “permanecer” might be the wrong verb, but I hope it is close enough)

I understand your frustration. but we want you to stay with us. please ...
_ _ _

AnnaMaria on June 30th, 2005 6:49 pm
¿Nuevo y mono, usted realiza que la gente puede seguir el gist de su conversacion cueste lo que cueste, a la derecha? BTW, convengo. El deseo mono permanecer a con nosotros.

new and monkey, you realize that people can follow the gist of his conversation at any cost, right? BTW, I agree. desire monkey to remain with us
_ _ _

new girl on June 30th, 2005 7:17 pm
Anna y “el Mono”-
Creo que he encontrado la discusion que usted ha mencionado. Le buscar ambos en ese lugar.

anna and "the monkey" -
I think I found the discussion that you mentioned. we both look at that place/both look for him in that place
_ _ _

new girl on June 30th, 2005 7:49 pm
Anna? Mono? ¿Donde estan? Le busque/busca ambos, pero no puedo encontrarle

anna? monkey? where are you? we are finding both/both seeking him, but I can't find him
_ _ _

Mono only posted those 3 posts...which Finngirl translated...were they Pap? New girl responded in whatever language they were...LOL...If pap, she had to be Aruban!

mono's posts were in spanish, which I can handle ...
finngirl has NO patience for papi, LOL



So essentially, Mono told everyone that he was Simian in a round about way.  That is very interesting indeed.  Hmmmmm.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on July 26, 2008, 07:06:38 PM
Ah....But he only made those 3 posts as Mono....for 27 minutes he was Mono. Then he came back the next day as Baboon...He told and ran...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on July 26, 2008, 07:08:58 PM
Just for clarification for this old sow here that does not speak any thing but English. Who spoke Papi and who spoke Spanish? TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on July 26, 2008, 07:12:05 PM
Ah....But he only made those 3 posts as Mono....for 27 minutes he was Mono. Then he came back the next day as Baboon...He told and ran...

And didn't stay long as Baboon until he morphed into Merian. LOL  Way to go Sim! 



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on July 26, 2008, 07:20:45 PM
Checkme is referring to AVP, and also referred to Jossy - a family behind each of the main political parties - who have total control over what goes on.


These are two of the posts that led me to believe that Checkme was neither Dutch or Aruban. (Posts very well in English)...Anyone else read anything from these? TIA


Checkme on June 30th, 2005 11:10 pm
new girl, the only way the Dutch benefit is keeping the Arubans happy in their own land. They would emigrate by the thousands to Holland in one month if things go sour here. But the true beneficiaries here are the American travel corporations/hotels here, none of which are owned by Arubans. Only the secondary industry are for Arubans. The major political players are of course backed by some families here, who have total control over what goes. Small island, so thi is quicly apparent. it happens all over the world but here it’s just very apparent.

From RWV
I agree with Julia Renfro, editor in chief for Aruba today newpaper, Dutch are a minority in Aruba who are looked at very critically. Their presence is tolorated and respected up to a certain point. If any member of them misbehaves he/she will be hung out to dry, together with many other Dutch. Meddling of Holland in this case (as in other cases) will not be tolerated. Aruba is on it's own here. They are getting support, but on their call. Most Dutch here know each other, especially if they work in the same branch of society. But this will never influence any judicial process. There is too much at stake here. We do have a split between the government and the judicial system. Thank God.
Posted by: Checkme | Wednesday, June 15, 2005 at 12:46 PM



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on July 26, 2008, 07:27:35 PM
Ah....But he only made those 3 posts as Mono....for 27 minutes he was Mono. Then he came back the next day as Baboon...He told and ran...

And didn't stay long as Baboon until he morphed into Merian. LOL  Way to go Sim! 




6 minutes as Baboon - Identity crisis...or he need to see a professional ::MonkeyHaHa::

Finngirl said new girl spoke Spanish, I presumed Simian posted in Pap, need to check...LOL...I don't know Spanish either! How would I know? (I did recognize the French he posted, barely...)



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on July 26, 2008, 07:37:20 PM
Lala's...New girl said Simian always responded in Spanish and Mono also posted and  responded in Spanish. Through google translator...definately Spanish.

El Mono no hace predicciones. Solo pasa informacion. Chica Nueva, no pongas tus pantaletas en un nudo.

The Mono makes no predictions. Only passing information. New Girl, do not put your pantaletas in a knot.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: sharon on July 27, 2008, 09:26:49 AM
Lala's...New girl said Simian always responded in Spanish and Mono also posted and  responded in Spanish. Through google translator...definately Spanish.

El Mono no hace predicciones. Solo pasa informacion. Chica Nueva, no pongas tus pantaletas en un nudo.

The Mono makes no predictions. Only passing information. New Girl, do not put your pantaletas in a knot.


'One' of the Simian's definitely posted in Spanish -- when he thought he was being impersonated  ::MonkeyTongue:: He communicated in Spanish with 'Allyinmiami'. This may have been via email as well as posting as Ally refers to Simian 'communicating' to her????

'One' of the Simians also mentioned that he was from South America -- something like 'I'm American, too. South American' -- so the Spanish is not surprising.

But then again -- I thought that 'one' of the Simian's also mentioned being of European ancestry  ::MonkeyConfused::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: vms on July 28, 2008, 11:02:32 AM
FWIW.

New girl was a member of the forum and was a really good researcher. IIRC, she said she was an attorney and from the midwest. IL or MI? Not sure, my memory is fading...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on July 30, 2008, 08:58:05 PM
I'm catching up on my reading and came across this post by CapsLockWiz over on the main thread. I'm bringing it here due to Caps reference of the Arawaks "BEN KING AND LAWYER CARLO" :

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=3128.560

 Re: Natalee Case Discussion #766 7/22
« Reply #578 on: Today at 12:34:44 PM » Quote 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote from: Lala'sMom on Today at 07:46:46 AM
Caps
Are you talking about the you tube videos that have been in circulation on the internet for a while now or is this something completely different?  I have seen several that were sent to me before that had these same things in them.  I am wondering if this is a new set or the same ones as before? TIA

BTW glad you are doing well in the bat cave. 
[/quote]

[Quote from CAPS]
You see, these videos are the real thing before what has been cut to show the world. Things that de Vries never shared to the world. these DVD are 2 hrs lonf and contain the whole process of the undercover operation, what joran said and where he show Hans Mos he eveidance and where Hans MOS aware of this conffesion.

Joran sate that he met natalee that night, he know the girl for about 3 hours and that she died on her and where he has caled his friend to despose of it. It is all in Dutch.

How did I got my hand on....don't ask...

But I have some question but it also let me have a clear inside who the Arawak is.  The Lawyer Carlo and Ben King.

Ben King work for the Chief Prosecuter and Live with Paules Van der Sloot. Mantana 19, that is why I can not find an adress for him in any registry.


I will see if I can load them up...but will check...these are the videos where the things were cut out that no one have seem

The on on you tube is just an extract and not the video it self.

The on called "Het Geheim van Aruba" is 2 hours long very good work. Tranlation "The Secret of Aruba"

This movie I have not see on the Internet. Will have to put my streaming server on

and the one from where Joran confess that Pater show was just a bit and not the whole thing.

CAPS.
[/quote]


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on July 30, 2008, 09:31:52 PM
Thanks Poochy…here is the link to a previous discussion on Caps’ friend Ben Vocking. Seems to be some confusion…still…

 ::MonkeyConfused::

Through page 46…

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2787.760


    Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #3 « Reply #763 on: April 24, 2008, 03:41:57 AM »
 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: texasmom on July 31, 2008, 02:11:22 AM
Thanks Poochy…here is the link to a previous discussion on Caps’ friend Ben Vocking. Seems to be some confusion…still…

 ::MonkeyConfused::

Through page 46…

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2787.760


    Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #3 « Reply #763 on: April 24, 2008, 03:41:57 AM »
 


  ::MonkeyRoll::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on July 31, 2008, 05:25:16 AM
Thanks Poochy…here is the link to a previous discussion on Caps’ friend Ben Vocking. Seems to be some confusion…still…

 ::MonkeyConfused::

Through page 46…

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2787.760


    Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #3 « Reply #763 on: April 24, 2008, 03:41:57 AM »
 


  ::MonkeyRoll::

Poochy…I am sure Texasmom can explain this post of Caps’, because after reading all the previous discussions by Caps on Vocking something is not right with this post… ::MonkeyNoNo::


Well, I will say that I know the FACE of the man since 2002-2004 where he was driving arround in his small VW in the area where they are selling prostitution. I my research on The Man came from a person that know The Man very well and when I was posting the info's, he provided me with all the Info add that time from the Pictures I have showed to Him.

Now at 3:30 am I said What I said because my eyes and my brain was very tired but he came to mind the more I read the riddle. Now The Man had many diffrent name and one of it is Jaguar = Hunter, Benny, Benancio, King, The Man, etc. and for that reason I said "what ever his name is" becuase the more you search about this man one will find all kinds of stories and which part of these volumes of stories do we need.


http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2787.900

Have to help my daughter today and will be back later tonight, and I am sure this will be cleared up, finally, once and for all!  ::MonkeyRoll:: ::MonkeyRoll::

 ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyHaHa::




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: texasmom on July 31, 2008, 06:13:50 PM
Thanks Poochy…here is the link to a previous discussion on Caps’ friend Ben Vocking. Seems to be some confusion…still…
 ::MonkeyConfused::
Through page 46…
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2787.760
    Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #3 « Reply #763 on: April 24, 2008, 03:41:57 AM »
  ::MonkeyRoll::
Poochy…I am sure Texasmom can explain this post of Caps’, because after reading all the previous discussions by Caps on Vocking something is not right with this post… ::MonkeyNoNo::
If I truly thought anything I said would suffice, I would attempt it with the hope that it would put a stop to this nonsense.  However, I'm sure that Caps knows more when it comes to Ben (Vocking) King, than I do.  My sources are very limited, and he has access to many more.  If mum has factual knowledge that she's not shared on this subject I challenge her to share it, if not I hope she will consider refraining from her criticism of Caps by nit-picking every post he's made regarding almost anything.  It's not beneficial to finding answers...and in my opinion seems very childish.  I would hope at this point that we're all here for the same reason, we all have opinions, and hopefully we have all realized that everything we've read or been told may not have been correct.  Time spent debating these things is wasted in my opinion.  If mum thinks she knows more than Caps about any subject I encourage her to post HER thoughts or findings on the subject and leave it to the readers to decide who they choose to believe.

That's all I have to say about that.... ::MonkeyWink::   


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on July 31, 2008, 07:17:26 PM
So what is Ben King's role?  Did he hide the body of Natlaee Holloway for Paulus?  Is he Dirty Hand or is that Deutekom?  I would like to see some evidence that supports some of the facts everyone seems to want to toss around in here.  I know this is speculation, but I too would like to know exactly what King did.  I want to know which it is...Carlo or King...or both.  I want to know why Simian spent lots of his time trying to lead us away from things.  Knowing what I know now about Simian/Merian/Mono/Baboon I can no longer think he knew much more than what he read in the newspapers and obtained from his relatives. Which was not the most reliable source available.  Shango is the same, he was telling a tale to lead us in another direction.  Which direction is it?  To others that were responsible and not Joran?   Does that ultimately lead us to give the Kalpoes and Joran a pass as to the final resting place of Natalee and what happened to her?  If you believe that Antonio Carlo and Ben King were there along with Deutekom you have to release Joran of anything but the fact he was stupid. Caps said in the Natalee thread that Ben King was there that night...that should be huge, huge...why isn't it?  Where are those videos that proves this? We want to see them is all.  I take nothing at face value in this case and I want clarification just as Mum does.  And everyone knows that I am on Caps side so don't anyone start bashing me on this...the two of us would like to see the videos and figure out if it is really true that Antonio Carlo and Ben King were the people that helped dispose of Natalee that night.  Just because we ask does not mean we don't believe it, it's just a matter of holding ones feet to the fire in order to get at the truth.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:58 pm
DirtyHand knows the Babylonians that provided escort after the 2 shivas left



Dirty Hand=Deutekom
Escorts=Carlo and King
Shivas=Kalpoes (Keep in mind that Caps does not say the shivas are the Kalpoes, that is my interpretation)

Now that actually fits, doesn't it? 

Lalas says:
Deutekom knows that Carlo and King provided escort after the Kalpoes left.


Would you put yourself in a position to tell Karen Jansen that you knew Joran was responsible for what happened to Natalee and then be the person that got rid of the body for him?   :roll:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on July 31, 2008, 08:02:10 PM

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:16 pm
Mary was not a Virgin
The Arawaks know
The cowboys know
DirtyHand can break the Alibi, he walks all circles
The Simian knows this


Let's talk about this alibi.  Why is it in capital letters?  Is it significant or was it a typo?  If Deutekom is Dirty Hand that means he had to be there to know how to break the alibi.  Apparently, Shango is acknowledging that Simian knows who dirty hand is and that the alibi is easily broken...but only by....Deutekom?  Hmmmm.

Back to who are the Arawaks?  Who are the cowboys?  I need to go back and see what Caps said about those two terms.  I can't remember, but I will find it eventually.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: texasmom on July 31, 2008, 08:23:32 PM

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:16 pm
Mary was not a Virgin
The Arawaks know
The cowboys know
DirtyHand can break the Alibi, he walks all circles
The Simian knows this


Let's talk about this alibi.  Why is it in capital letters?  Is it significant or was it a typo?  If Deutekom is Dirty Hand that means he had to be there to know how to break the alibi.  Apparently, Shango is acknowledging that Simian knows who dirty hand is and that the alibi is easily broken...but only by....Deutekom?   Hmmmm.

Back to who are the Arawaks?  Who are the cowboys?  I need to go back and see what Caps said about those two terms.  I can't remember, but I will find it eventually.
Quote
Knowing what I know now about Simian/Merian/Mono/Baboon I can no longer think he knew much more than what he read in the newspapers and obtained from his relatives. Which was not the most reliable source available.  Shango is the same, he was telling a tale to lead us in another direction.

 ::MonkeyConfused::



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: texasmom on July 31, 2008, 08:24:46 PM
(http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn82/texasmom_55/Smileys/goldrule.gif)  ::MonkeyWink::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on July 31, 2008, 09:18:10 PM
Why can't we ask questions in this thread?  Has there been some mandate that I am not aware of?  I don't get it.  That is why I have been away from here and not posted much.  No matter what I say it gets twisted into some bashing of another person and that is not the case.  I give up!

People ask me questions and I ask them questions.  How else are we suppose to get any clarification on anything anymore or is that not the point...just let everything fly and see what sticks?  Just don't ever question anyone?   :roll:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on July 31, 2008, 09:21:15 PM

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:16 pm
Mary was not a Virgin
The Arawaks know
The cowboys know
DirtyHand can break the Alibi, he walks all circles
The Simian knows this


Let's talk about this alibi.  Why is it in capital letters?  Is it significant or was it a typo?  If Deutekom is Dirty Hand that means he had to be there to know how to break the alibi.  Apparently, Shango is acknowledging that Simian knows who dirty hand is and that the alibi is easily broken...but only by....Deutekom?   Hmmmm.

Back to who are the Arawaks?  Who are the cowboys?  I need to go back and see what Caps said about those two terms.  I can't remember, but I will find it eventually.
Quote
Knowing what I know now about Simian/Merian/Mono/Baboon I can no longer think he knew much more than what he read in the newspapers and obtained from his relatives. Which was not the most reliable source available.  Shango is the same, he was telling a tale to lead us in another direction.

 ::MonkeyConfused::



That's right.  I know who Simian is and he was trying to get everyone to leave his relative alone.  That is why he pointed the finger at the 5th suspect.  He wanted us to leave his cousin out of it. MOO


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on July 31, 2008, 10:05:54 PM
Thanks Poochy…here is the link to a previous discussion on Caps’ friend Ben Vocking. Seems to be some confusion…still…
 ::MonkeyConfused::
Through page 46…
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2787.760
    Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #3 « Reply #763 on: April 24, 2008, 03:41:57 AM »
  ::MonkeyRoll::
Poochy…I am sure Texasmom can explain this post of Caps’, because after reading all the previous discussions by Caps on Vocking something is not right with this post… ::MonkeyNoNo::
If I truly thought anything I said would suffice, I would attempt it with the hope that it would put a stop to this nonsense.  However, I'm sure that Caps knows more when it comes to Ben (Vocking) King, than I do.  My sources are very limited, and he has access to many more.  If mum has factual knowledge that she's not shared on this subject I challenge her to share it, if not I hope she will consider refraining from her criticism of Caps by nit-picking every post he's made regarding almost anything.  It's not beneficial to finding answers...and in my opinion seems very childish.  I would hope at this point that we're all here for the same reason, we all have opinions, and hopefully we have all realized that everything we've read or been told may not have been correct.  Time spent debating these things is wasted in my opinion.  If mum thinks she knows more than Caps about any subject I encourage her to post HER thoughts or findings on the subject and leave it to the readers to decide who they choose to believe.

That's all I have to say about that.... ::MonkeyWink::   





The facts are in the link in my previous post…and in the previous discussions in the other Shango threads. This is the second time I have posted these links…and the information has already been shared…I CHALLENGE YOU, TEXASMOM, to do your homework, read ALL the posts and open all the links. Something is seriously wrong in those discussions. It may be important to the case and I have already attempted to bring it to light and been attacked for doing it.

This is the Shango thread, and I can be as cryptic as I please…That being said I, unlike some other posters have always shared my research and the majority of the time back them up with research and links. What is good for the goose is not good for the gander…LOL…Are you asking ME to back up my post…This in itself is a joke! This is all that has ever been asked of Caps, other than databank information on Freddy, which it appears, for some reason he does not respond to. Call me naive, but I am not just going to accept any poster’s opinion or post as proof.

What I call childish is your continued posting of rolling eyes, dancing monkeys, and an occasional post that mostly follows Caps’theories. You continue to attack and insult any poster who might questions your friends’ posts. I have seen posts of yours that I consider downright rude…Since April I can show you 3 of your posts where you have insulted 3 different posters…Maybe you should practice what you preach…

Quite frankly your opinion on what we spend our time debating isn’t worth anything, it isn’t worth squat. Your last sentence is one of the most ridiculous statements I have ever read! It should be obvious to even a 1st. grader that most of the time I speak and understand English way better than Caps does. So I would say at the very least English...would you like more?

BTW…If you don’t like the discussion, skip it…Back to what I have been doing since your last attack on me in April…. Texasmom is on Ignore, skipped over…and that is MY last word on the subject. But seeing you always have to have the last word, be right of course and seem to get enjoyment out of belittling other posters, I expect to see at least a rolling eyes Monkey.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on July 31, 2008, 11:10:40 PM
I was thinking the other day that we haven't seen Colombo lately.  I miss his discussions on the gambling and casino aspects of Shango. He always had me going in a thousand directions trying to understand what he meant. He always had a good argument about Paulus being the 5th suspect. I just could not wrap my mind around the thought that Natalee could possibly interested in Paulus for any reason.  She did not seem to recognize him in the casino that night and he was clearly talking to her.  It seems he was pointing to Joran and saying some thing about him...that is why I believe it was Paulus there beside her.  Hey, Colombo come back and get us back on track again. I miss you.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: texasmom on August 01, 2008, 12:31:25 AM
Thanks Poochy…here is the link to a previous discussion on Caps’ friend Ben Vocking. Seems to be some confusion…still…
 ::MonkeyConfused::
Through page 46…
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2787.760
    Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #3 « Reply #763 on: April 24, 2008, 03:41:57 AM »
  ::MonkeyRoll::
Poochy…I am sure Texasmom can explain this post of Caps’, because after reading all the previous discussions by Caps on Vocking something is not right with this post… ::MonkeyNoNo::
If I truly thought anything I said would suffice, I would attempt it with the hope that it would put a stop to this nonsense.  However, I'm sure that Caps knows more when it comes to Ben (Vocking) King, than I do.  My sources are very limited, and he has access to many more.  If mum has factual knowledge that she's not shared on this subject I challenge her to share it, if not I hope she will consider refraining from her criticism of Caps by nit-picking every post he's made regarding almost anything.  It's not beneficial to finding answers...and in my opinion seems very childish.  I would hope at this point that we're all here for the same reason, we all have opinions, and hopefully we have all realized that everything we've read or been told may not have been correct.  Time spent debating these things is wasted in my opinion.  If mum thinks she knows more than Caps about any subject I encourage her to post HER thoughts or findings on the subject and leave it to the readers to decide who they choose to believe.

That's all I have to say about that.... ::MonkeyWink::   
The facts are in the link in my previous post…and in the previous discussions in the other Shango threads. This is the second time I have posted these links…and the information has already been shared…I CHALLENGE YOU, TEXASMOM, to do your homework, read ALL the posts and open all the links. Something is seriously wrong in those discussions. It may be important to the case and I have already attempted to bring it to light and been attacked for doing it.

This is the Shango thread, and I can be as cryptic as I please…That being said I, unlike some other posters have always shared my research and the majority of the time back them up with research and links. What is good for the goose is not good for the gander…LOL…Are you asking ME to back up my post…This in itself is a joke! This is all that has ever been asked of Caps, other than databank information on Freddy, which it appears, for some reason he does not respond to. Call me naive, but I am not just going to accept any poster’s opinion or post as proof.

What I call childish is your continued posting of rolling eyes, dancing monkeys, and an occasional post that mostly follows Caps’theories. You continue to attack and insult any poster who might questions your friends’ posts. I have seen posts of yours that I consider downright rude…Since April I can show you 3 of your posts where you have insulted 3 different posters…Maybe you should practice what you preach…

Quite frankly your opinion on what we spend our time debating isn’t worth anything, it isn’t worth squat. Your last sentence is one of the most ridiculous statements I have ever read! It should be obvious to even a 1st. grader that most of the time I speak and understand English way better than Caps does. So I would say at the very least English...would you like more?

BTW…If you don’t like the discussion, skip it…Back to what I have been doing since your last attack on me in April…. Texasmom is on Ignore, skipped over  ::MonkeyWink:: …and that is MY last word on the subject. But seeing you always have to have the last word, be right of course and seem to get enjoyment out of belittling other posters, I expect to see at least a rolling eyes Monkey.

You have not been attacked by me, ever; and it won't happen. 
That's not what I'm here for.

It's all about Natalee.... (http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn82/texasmom_55/QMPD97235/Nataleefrmcarpe.jpg)
(Hat tip to Carpe for the pic)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on August 01, 2008, 08:02:46 AM
I was thinking the other day that we haven't seen Colombo lately.  I miss his discussions on the gambling and casino aspects of Shango. He always had me going in a thousand directions trying to understand what he meant. He always had a good argument about Paulus being the 5th suspect. I just could not wrap my mind around the thought that Natalee could possibly interested in Paulus for any reason.  She did not seem to recognize him in the casino that night and he was clearly talking to her.  It seems he was pointing to Joran and saying some thing about him...that is why I believe it was Paulus there beside her.  Hey, Colombo come back and get us back on track again. I miss you.

Wow…Lala’s…just like old times in the Shango thread for me. Thanks…I have responses and questions to all your posts…LOL…may take me a while…

Yourself and the veteran Tangoers have so much knowledge and insight to offer and even though COLOMBO’S posts still totally confuse me, I thoroughly enjoy reading his posts. There are some excellent posts in the early pages of the Shango threads. Unfortunately some of these posters don’t seem to be around much in the last few months. Some may never post again. Such a shame! Always appreciate it when some of them occasionally stop by…

Waiting patiently for COLOMBO'S glossary to help me understand his posts...guess he figures he did his homework and I need to do mine...




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on August 01, 2008, 08:16:05 AM

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:16 pm
Mary was not a Virgin
The Arawaks know
The cowboys know
DirtyHand can break the Alibi, he walks all circles
The Simian knows this


Let's talk about this alibi.  Why is it in capital letters?  Is it significant or was it a typo?  If Deutekom is Dirty Hand that means he had to be there to know how to break the alibi.  Apparently, Shango is acknowledging that Simian knows who dirty hand is and that the alibi is easily broken...but only by....Deutekom?   Hmmmm.

Back to who are the Arawaks?  Who are the cowboys?  I need to go back and see what Caps said about those two terms.  I can't remember, but I will find it eventually.
Quote
Knowing what I know now about Simian/Merian/Mono/Baboon I can no longer think he knew much more than what he read in the newspapers and obtained from his relatives. Which was not the most reliable source available.  Shango is the same, he was telling a tale to lead us in another direction.

 ::MonkeyConfused::



That's right.  I know who Simian is and he was trying to get everyone to leave his relative alone.  That is why he pointed the finger at the 5th suspect.  He wanted us to leave his cousin out of it. MOO


Lala’s…call the man. Maybe he is ready to tell us what he meant! It is worth a try, and it can’t hurt. If he was really offering factual information and not just a paid shill,  one would think he would be glad to oblige…

The famous pic, the Star, the other car, who the alibi played for, the orange regal visage and of course all about the boyfriend from earlier in the week. Oh My!

Not a phone person otherwise I would have called by now....His info is in the previous thread, but you know that…LOL


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on August 01, 2008, 09:01:40 AM
Why can't we ask questions in this thread?  Has there been some mandate that I am not aware of?  I don't get it.  That is why I have been away from here and not posted much.  No matter what I say it gets twisted into some bashing of another person and that is not the case.  I give up!

People ask me questions and I ask them questions.  How else are we suppose to get any clarification on anything anymore or is that not the point...just let everything fly and see what sticks?  Just don't ever question anyone?   :roll:

Lala’s…JMO, but this is an open forum for discussion. You have a right, as do I to question any posts by any posters. If information is posted and it appears to be inconclusive or erroneous, I for one will question it. And it would be nice if our questions were answered and not left “out here” for threads and threads.

Recent discussion in the NAH has raised more questions for me on Vocking, Deutekom, Judge Witt and now Antonio Carlo. I will continue to ask my questions and try to get to the bottom of Ben Vocking and this includes Caps previous posts on the subject. As I stated yesterday, this could be important to the case. Especially, IMO, if what Caps has posted is correct. Without Caps addressing the questions directed at him in Shango 3 about this, I am left to go with the documentation that has been posted in the discussions, which is contrary to what Caps posted.

BBL…With more questions…LOL


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 01, 2008, 09:24:57 AM
I would love to have a sit down with Simian/Merian/Mono/Baboon.  If he truly had any info obtained by reliable sources then he should have gone to the FBI.  But then again, he knew that ALE was in control and his cousin could not be blamed for something he didn't do.  It was clear that Steve was being implicated and what is even stranger is he did it to himself.  Did Steve's uncle ask Simian to help him get the heat off Steve?  Was Steve so inept at speaking for himself that he actually was dumb enough to admit he was there on the beach knowing full well that he would be implicated in her disappearance? We all know he did this and it was perfectly fine that no explanation was ever given for being stupid.  I suppose you don't need one in that case. LOL

As soon as I found out who Simian was it all became clear. He was trying to clear his cousin.  He had either been told to do that or he took it upon himself to do it after hearing the talk within his family.  Either way, Simian pointed to a 5th suspect and Merian wanted Freddy looked at more closely.  Once Simian/Merian's identity was discovered he faded into oblivion.  His job was done. And so it remains to this day.

BTW does anyone know how to say "Solognier" ?  I would so appreciate a phonetic version of that name, please. TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on August 01, 2008, 10:43:54 AM
My French background = 3 years in high school....

Solognier -- So lone yay (g is silent)  could also be sa lon yay (I'm forgetting the correct phonetics here)

Smarter monkeys can dispute this.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 01, 2008, 10:48:12 AM
My French background = 3 years in high school....

Solognier -- So lone yay (g is silent)  could also be sa lon yay (I'm forgetting the correct phonetics here)

Smarter monkeys can dispute this.


Thanks!!  I was thinking that also, but as I have been told I am limited to English and that gives me a disadvantage.  ::MonkeyWink::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 01, 2008, 10:56:18 AM
Simian Says: June 28th, 2005 at 2:18 am
YOU'RE BANNED the poetry. The Simian is a frenchman. Blue blood if you should know.


Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 2:59 am
The Simian Doppleganger is upset because the arawak nation is hiding the truth from the cowboys
DirtyHand knows
Simian knows
The Simian stated for 2 days, the key would come from the hague the next day
Shango said no two times
Is Simian a DirtyHand too
Has the Simian played with the lions
in the houses of ill-repute and poison notes
where the innocent flies are lured?
Has the Simian, primate that he is, fed with the other animals?
Back ye fetid mongrel, as the 46th are you; delegate of the 7th level of inferno,
not birthed, but spewed from the dark chasm of a nightmare!


This is beginning to be clearer all the time.  "played" as in music.   Frenchman as in the name.  Wowie! Zowie! Batman!!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on August 01, 2008, 12:38:31 PM
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:01 pm
Arawaks often go to play in small houses of Babylon with the offspring of the Elders

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:30 pm
You always find forbidden desires in the small houses of Babylon

The house of babylon would tumble down on the teepees of the Arawaks

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:45 pm
All who enter the damned corridors of the houses of Babylon know the dangers that await

http://www.newsobserver.com/politics/story/1160048.html
http://www.nationalenquirer.com/john_edwards_hush_money_to_mistress/celebrity/65226
http://www.newsobserver.com/politics/story/1161218.html







Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on August 01, 2008, 12:41:57 PM
I was thinking the other day that we haven't seen Colombo lately.  I miss his discussions on the gambling and casino aspects of Shango. He always had me going in a thousand directions trying to understand what he meant. He always had a good argument about Paulus being the 5th suspect. I just could not wrap my mind around the thought that Natalee could possibly interested in Paulus for any reason.  She did not seem to recognize him in the casino that night and he was clearly talking to her.  It seems he was pointing to Joran and saying some thing about him...that is why I believe it was Paulus there beside her.  Hey, Colombo come back and get us back on track again. I miss you.

Wow…Lala’s…just like old times in the Shango thread for me. Thanks…I have responses and questions to all your posts…LOL…may take me a while…

Yourself and the veteran Tangoers have so much knowledge and insight to offer and even though COLOMBO’S posts still totally confuse me, I thoroughly enjoy reading his posts. There are some excellent posts in the early pages of the Shango threads. Unfortunately some of these posters don’t seem to be around much in the last few months. Some may never post again. Such a shame! Always appreciate it when some of them occasionally stop by…

Waiting patiently for COLOMBO'S glossary to help me understand his posts...guess he figures he did his homework and I need to do mine...






context is needed......interest in PVDS irrelevant:
Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:49 pm
The maze offers many hidden desires
deflowerings of forbidden fruits

DirtyHand knows.
So does the elder.
The lamb is a scapegoat.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 01, 2008, 12:43:54 PM
These are the posts found on Ian's Blog some time later.  Given all the info that is known now about this case I find much of it extremely interesting.  This Shango sounds more like Merian to me. My comments in red.

posted 8-23-05

Shango Said:
11:22 am

The Lamb shall leave the pen in a fortnight Joran was clearly the Lamb and he didn't have much time left to spend in jail by August 23rd.

Shiva was seen at the Lion’s Den. He tried to camoflauge into the herd. Deepak was caught on camera by FOX trying to get into Carlos and Charlies again.

DirtyHand had still holds the Key, but has fled the Arawak Island. Jan van der Straten had left  Aruba for Bonaire. I think he was gone by now. Of course that blows the Deutekom theory if Dirty Hand really was Straten

The Cowboys are riding in circles but cannot find the truth. They are blinded by the lights
of the messengers. Too much reading of blogs causing much confusion as to what was evidence and what wasn't.

Non-Virgin Mary and her flock Rolled for many days, finding comfort in the Monkey Den.
Enjoying a Baccanalia Dance in the Ampitheatre for the Lion’s pleasure to be chosen later.  The kids partied the whole time they were there.  They didn't deny this...it is on record.

The False Messenger deceives the anguished Cowgirl with Osteo scraps.  I think this is a refernce to Jossy and Beth. MOO


Shango Said:
2:50 pm

Head CowGirl’s mind is poisoned by the Sumarian Messenger. Another reference to Jossy here. Again my opinion based on things I know now.

Dirty Hand is safe behind the Babylonian Fortress.

The Lamb does not bleat nor does he fear the Cowboys. Joran knows they can't touch him any longer and he will get away with this. Daddy took care of it all.

Mary is not on Arawak Nation. Natalee has been moved.

The Elder is confident of vindication and the slaying of a Lion. Paulus also knows that it is all over. They just have to wait it out. He knows too much and no one wants it told.

2 Shivas can not tell about Eden, if they have no knowledge of it. Kalpoes don't know where they finally put Natalee.  They should have said so and come clean. Their lives would be very different by now...maybe even better. Fools.

The Messengers spin webs.
 So much is being said and written about this case on the news and internet that it will be hard to sort out what is truth from specualtion.  Boy!  Is that ever the truth!

Gosh!  I wish Shango would hop back in here and tell me what I got wrong.  ::MonkeyCool::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 01, 2008, 12:47:47 PM
I was thinking the other day that we haven't seen Colombo lately.  I miss his discussions on the gambling and casino aspects of Shango. He always had me going in a thousand directions trying to understand what he meant. He always had a good argument about Paulus being the 5th suspect. I just could not wrap my mind around the thought that Natalee could possibly interested in Paulus for any reason.  She did not seem to recognize him in the casino that night and he was clearly talking to her.  It seems he was pointing to Joran and saying some thing about him...that is why I believe it was Paulus there beside her.  Hey, Colombo come back and get us back on track again. I miss you.

Wow…Lala’s…just like old times in the Shango thread for me. Thanks…I have responses and questions to all your posts…LOL…may take me a while…

Yourself and the veteran Tangoers have so much knowledge and insight to offer and even though COLOMBO’S posts still totally confuse me, I thoroughly enjoy reading his posts. There are some excellent posts in the early pages of the Shango threads. Unfortunately some of these posters don’t seem to be around much in the last few months. Some may never post again. Such a shame! Always appreciate it when some of them occasionally stop by…

Waiting patiently for COLOMBO'S glossary to help me understand his posts...guess he figures he did his homework and I need to do mine...






context is needed......interest in PVDS irrelevant:
Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:49 pm
The maze offers many hidden desires
deflowerings of forbidden fruits

DirtyHand knows.
So does the elder.
The lamb is a scapegoat.


Hey Colombo!!!  So good to see you. I need a refresher from you.  Who did you think was Dirty Hand?  Gosh, I have forgotten after all this time. I have to go back now and see if I can remember. Darn it.  I am so excited to see you that I have forgotten what I wanted to ask you. LOL 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on August 01, 2008, 12:54:10 PM
Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 2:50 pm
This is bad. Really bad…He (fifth) has a history of making himself be something he is not.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:01 pm
Arawaks often go to play (THE "GAME") in small houses of Babylon with the offspring of the Elders (who "play in the maze")


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on August 01, 2008, 12:59:08 PM
I was thinking the other day that we haven't seen Colombo lately.  I miss his discussions on the gambling and casino aspects of Shango. He always had me going in a thousand directions trying to understand what he meant. He always had a good argument about Paulus being the 5th suspect. I just could not wrap my mind around the thought that Natalee could possibly interested in Paulus for any reason.  She did not seem to recognize him in the casino that night and he was clearly talking to her.  It seems he was pointing to Joran and saying some thing about him...that is why I believe it was Paulus there beside her.  Hey, Colombo come back and get us back on track again. I miss you.

Wow…Lala’s…just like old times in the Shango thread for me. Thanks…I have responses and questions to all your posts…LOL…may take me a while…

Yourself and the veteran Tangoers have so much knowledge and insight to offer and even though COLOMBO’S posts still totally confuse me, I thoroughly enjoy reading his posts. There are some excellent posts in the early pages of the Shango threads. Unfortunately some of these posters don’t seem to be around much in the last few months. Some may never post again. Such a shame! Always appreciate it when some of them occasionally stop by…

Waiting patiently for COLOMBO'S glossary to help me understand his posts...guess he figures he did his homework and I need to do mine...






context is needed......interest in PVDS irrelevant:
Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:49 pm
The maze offers many hidden desires
deflowerings of forbidden fruits

DirtyHand knows.
So does the elder.
The lamb is a scapegoat.


Hey Colombo!!!  So good to see you. I need a refresher from you.  Who did you think was Dirty Hand?  Gosh, I have forgotten after all this time. I have to go back now and see if I can remember. Darn it.  I am so excited to see you that I have forgotten what I wanted to ask you. LOL 


Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 8:27 pm
DirtyHand and the fallen judge may not be crucified

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:43 pm
The fallen judge agreed to sing because he can hum any tune
He needs to sing for his son, or see the end of his babylonian offspring (are these 2 different people? is one DirtyHand?)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on August 01, 2008, 02:07:34 PM
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:01 pm
Arawaks often go to play in small houses of Babylon with the offspring of the Elders

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:30 pm
You always find forbidden desires in the small houses of Babylon

The house of babylon would tumble down on the teepees of the Arawaks

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:45 pm
All who enter the damned corridors of the houses of Babylon know the dangers that await

http://www.newsobserver.com/politics/story/1160048.html
http://www.nationalenquirer.com/john_edwards_hush_money_to_mistress/celebrity/65226
http://www.newsobserver.com/politics/story/1161218.html








Hey COLOMBO…Great to see you…I have been sidetracked today…no Shango/Tango time…LOL…Hopefully will be back a little later to respond to your posts…if I can…


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on August 01, 2008, 02:21:22 PM
Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 2:50 pm
This is bad. Really bad…He (fifth) has a history of making himself be something he is not.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:01 pm
Arawaks often go to play (THE "GAME") in small houses of Babylon with the offspring of the Elders (who "play in the maze")


Even if you play cards in the house of babylon as an arawak, you still have DirtyHand


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 01, 2008, 02:47:43 PM
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 8:27 pm
DirtyHand and the fallen judge may not be crucified

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:43 pm
The fallen judge agreed to sing because he can hum any tune
He needs to sing for his son, or see the end of his babylonian offspring (are these 2 different people? is one DirtyHand?)


Cololmbo
Are you saying that the "son" and the "babylonian offspring" are two different people?  As in  Lorenzo and Joran?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 01, 2008, 02:49:04 PM
Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 2:50 pm
This is bad. Really bad…He (fifth) has a history of making himself be something he is not.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:01 pm
Arawaks often go to play (THE "GAME") in small houses of Babylon with the offspring of the Elders (who "play in the maze")


Even if you play cards in the house of babylon as an arawak, you still have DirtyHand


That depends on who the "arawaks" are. LOL  Gamblers?  ALE?  Arubans? 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on August 01, 2008, 03:18:07 PM
Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 2:50 pm
This is bad. Really bad…He (fifth) has a history of making himself be something he is not.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:01 pm
Arawaks often go to play (THE "GAME") in small houses of Babylon with the offspring of the Elders (who "play in the maze")


Even if you play cards in the house of babylon as an arawak, you still have DirtyHand


That depends on who the "arawaks" are. LOL  Gamblers?  ALE?  Arubans? 


Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:42 pm
Arawaks hold singing card from babylon (they were in jail)
There is also a trio. One Babylonian. 2 Shivas.
Arawaks can’t let babylonian Card (DirtyHand) sing because hand holding it dirty too.
Many teepees fall. No Wampum.
(DirtyHand is kept hidden-a witness, not a suspect.....can break alibi)


Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:01 pm
Arawaks often go to play in small houses of Babylon with the offspring of the Elders (pimps, forbidden fruits)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on August 01, 2008, 03:18:47 PM
Arubans=Indians


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 01, 2008, 03:29:47 PM
Arubans=Indians

So you say the Arawaks are the Arubans?  That makes the most sense, of course, there are those that will disagree.  Sorry I am asking the same question over and over.  I just want to be certain I understand your thinking here.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Chata on August 01, 2008, 03:31:08 PM
Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 2:50 pm
This is bad. Really bad…He (fifth) has a history of making himself be something he is not.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:01 pm
Arawaks often go to play (THE "GAME") in small houses of Babylon with the offspring of the Elders (who "play in the maze")

Hi Colombo,

Then you don't agree with CAPS' explaination of the "Game" as being a funeral (I guess he meant a body switch game???)  and the maze where the Elders' offspring play as being the cemetery???  I am always confused after reading his posts , can't quite grasp everything he is trying to convey to us. 

I always felt there was a tie to the Casinos and everything connected to them.  I am probably way off ...

CHATA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 01, 2008, 04:08:45 PM
Shango knew the casino "games".  He gambled there himself. He didn't play with Simian and his bunch, but he knew the routine becasue he had seen it with his own eyes. MOO


Hi Chata...good to see you again.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on August 01, 2008, 07:26:25 PM
Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 2:50 pm
This is bad. Really bad…He (fifth) has a history of making himself be something he is not.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:01 pm
Arawaks often go to play (THE "GAME") in small houses of Babylon with the offspring of the Elders (who "play in the maze")

Hi Colombo,

Then you don't agree with CAPS' explaination of the "Game" as being a funeral (I guess he meant a body switch game???)  and the maze where the Elders' offspring play as being the cemetery???  I am always confused after reading his posts , can't quite grasp everything he is trying to convey to us. 

I always felt there was a tie to the Casinos and everything connected to them.  I am probably way off ...

CHATA



Hi Chata:

This doc was shared with me a few years back by somebody that posted here-but also in another forum.....I believe a comprehensive review reveals interesting insight relating to the game-particularly on pg 4: 

Both pimps and prostitutes generally referred to their activities as “the game.”
http://www.ca11.uscourts.gov/opinions/ops/200214306.pdf

the players
the lions which play
play in the maze

some reverse engineering could forward an interesting postulation as to the identity of Shango


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on August 01, 2008, 07:29:35 PM
Shango knew the casino "games".  He gambled there himself. He didn't play with Simian and his bunch, but he knew the routine becasue he had seen it with his own eyes. MOO


Hi Chata...good to see you again.

Shango has not danced with the lions, nor Arawaks,and does not keep their company
(sounds like "the game")
Eyes of god may look from afar with great acuity (keenness of hearing, sight, INTELLECT ::MonkeyEek::).


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on August 01, 2008, 07:30:50 PM
Arubans=Indians

So you say the Arawaks are the Arubans?  That makes the most sense, of course, there are those that will disagree.  Sorry I am asking the same question over and over.  I just want to be certain I understand your thinking here.

Indians=Arubans


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 01, 2008, 08:37:49 PM
Arubans=Indians

So you say the Arawaks are the Arubans?  That makes the most sense, of course, there are those that will disagree.  Sorry I am asking the same question over and over.  I just want to be certain I understand your thinking here.

Indians=Arubans

I think I can safely say you mean Arawaks are the Arubans are the Indians.  I didn't know how much I missed you until today.   ::MonkeyWink::

Now, one more question.  Do you think the term arawaks every changes in Shango's postings?  Is the term arawaks always, in your opinion, the same regardless of the context of the post? TIA


(Stop rolling your eyes at me...I have a reason for asking this.)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on August 01, 2008, 09:26:46 PM
Arubans=Indians

So you say the Arawaks are the Arubans?  That makes the most sense, of course, there are those that will disagree.  Sorry I am asking the same question over and over.  I just want to be certain I understand your thinking here.

Indians=Arubans

I think I can safely say you mean Arawaks are the Arubans are the Indians.  I didn't know how much I missed you until today.   ::MonkeyWink::

Now, one more question.  Do you think the term arawaks every changes in Shango's postings?  Is the term arawaks always, in your opinion, the same regardless of the context of the post? TIA


(Stop rolling your eyes at me...I have a reason for asking this.)

never said Arubans=Arawaks    or     Arawaks=Indians

did say Arubans=Indians

If Arawaks did = Arubans....who are the Indians???!!!



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Chata on August 02, 2008, 12:47:57 AM
I have been reading my notes/old posts and found some interesting things.  I will make several posts as it is lengthy.  I am not sure who/where I got this ... just saved it, never expecting to dig it out and post it.  Sorry about no reference.


The Players --
Simian= a hotel owner (a Mansur relative, not Jossy) remember "the gardener"?
He was one of the (false) "singing cards".

46 sacrifices=46 hotels in Aruba
(the hotels have freely allowed the Babylonians to use their facilities)

46th Spirit= (and a Babylonian God by association --Simian/Mansuer) this really pissed him off btw

46th sacrifice=Simian's hotel
re:Simian's handicap, (his Hotel is near golf course also has a tennis club can you say
"Le Cabana?")

Shango=FBI playing cat and mouse with Mansur

The 5th suspect=PVS

The 1st boyfriend (with the motive)=The 5th suspect (per Simian)
Both Paul (1st bf) and Joran (2nd bf) were together in Casino w/ Nat May 29
it's on tape. The 5th suspect did not deny the affair when questioned on June 17th.
Who has affairs? answer: it's a term for Married ppl. cheating
Paulus was "let go" from his duties on or about June 17th right after the first time he was picked up and questioned (Paulus with Natalee on a Casino security tape. Knowing her cannot be denied by Paulus) Paulus is the one with the "air tight alibi" but he's on tape and can't deny he'd met Natalee if the Package from the Hauge (EVIDENCE) was turned over....it wasn't.
They wanted Hotel security tapes to expose Paul, his lordship said: "no"
"Friends cover for friends" (per Simian)= Alabama friends know Paulus was with Natalee
as well as friends of Paulus having supplied his "air tight" alibi.
(Alibi known by Aruban LE to be false)

The Elders, The Babylonians (procurers), The Lions and the Arawaks.
It's really an "old boys club".

But now the sacrifice is a goat= yeah, an old goat!

Who else plays in the band? A bablylonian? =(Paulus is a "Babylonian Musician"with "Babylonian
offspring" he plays a brass horn) FOLLOW THE MUSIC
Paulus' friends need to be pinched (Jaime was one) Jaime knows the Wyndham pool man.

Natalee was handed off to two other Babylonians while the Lamb ran bleating.
(Joran left her in the Lion's Den)

Package from the Hague=Those security tapes, Tapes from TWO Casino Hotels.

Babylon=the palm beach hotel strip area and the seedy area behind the strip.

Babilonians=Joran and the "pimps" as well as some ELDERS who work and play in Babylon.
(Babylonian Gods pay well)

Babilonian Gods=Organized Crime

Small Houses of Babylon= individual ho houses behind the strip

(Native Flys, the willing South American visitors are working in those)
Great Houses of Babylon=Those High Rolling Lions prefer Virgin Marys to Used Marys.

One Straight path to the House of Rave=JE Irausquin Blvd is a straight path between
C 'N C's (the Fly trap) and the Hotel Strip (Babylon)
while of gold bricks the road is not paved= The back way into the LION'S DEN
IS AN ALLEY behind the Hotels. The Lion's den is at the other end of the MAZE.

The MAZE is figurative. The MAZE is not a place, it is a PROCESS. It is a pipeline.
Don't confuse "rave" with a party. Rave is defined "to rage or Roar": LIONS
Paulus' alibi is that others spent the night at his house (What did Jaime declare?)

Sumarians= The Security Guards were Paulus' 2 singing cards which were played
The Security guards know of and resent what goes on at the hotels, but they kept quiet about that and lied about what they heard in jail, so I guess they were paid off
before they could sing and lead THE COWBOYS to EDEN.

Babylon Palace=the Wyndham Has a special room for High Rolling Lions.
Think some locals may have their own KEY.
10/01/2005-------DirtyHand=see above

Arawaks=Aruban LE (They hold a "singing card", VDS, but their hands are dirty too)
Arawaks partake of Babylonian fruits themselves and therefore their own teepees could fall.

Indians= Regular ,helpful Aruban citizens who are unaware of Babylon activities

Fallen Elder=PVDS (all of the Elders are married males)

Sacrifice/Lambdersloot =Joran covering for Paulus

Will the Elder sing for Babylon or for his son?= (not implicate himself plus spill what he knows about the "pimps" and other Elder's activities) or will he admit to it to save his son. He can do either, but he chose to keep what he knew to himself. There was no reason to hold Joran to trial. All knew that he would be freed and Paulus to keep his secret. Do not rely on false confessions and audio tapes. All are covering for the Gods of Babylon of whom they are very afraid.

Elder friends cover for each other. All are married, many teepees will fall.

(Babylonia's Gods pay well). No, Deepak doesn't need any money.

His Lordship = Michael Posner

Arawak King =The King of Babylon Palace, I mean The Wyndham president.
He has Aruban LE (The Arawaks) by the gonads.
********************************
Wyndham recently sold BTW; I think Rivero is getting out of Dodge.)
Much of his info. (pictues at gatherings) )has been erased from the net.
Date of Jossy's article about an encounter with him and his Atlantis Hotel owner buddy
in an online archive of Diario WAS CHANGED. It was changed to reflect that meeting was
after the Atlantis search, when in fact it was before. FBI has their eye on Rivero,
friend and financer of Atlantis Hotel owner. WRONG HOTEL Searched by Crimson Monkey who
proceeded to gum up the works, though I'll admit that Atlantis is indeed an "old hotel".
Paulus is being protected because he has the goods on Elders great and small.
Many teepees would fall.
Babylon must be preserved!
Girls drugged at C'NC's and delivered to High Rolling Lions in the Greater Houses of Babylon=
Many American Corporates withdrawing their franchises=NO WAMPUM, MANY MOONS
Dirty Hand walked in the small houses of Babylon as well as all houses and with the Elder
.....and with all of the Elders. Dirty Hand knows that the girl walked with an Elder as well.
The first pushed domino in the chain would cause all the rest to crash down.
Girl knew the first domino and learned his activities the hard way. She could identify him.
She came to now and then, they said.
Dirty Hand keeps his eye on the ho houses but doesn't partake. He has caught Paulus with his
pants down in a house of Babylon in the past. Dirtyhand knows Paulus' extracurricular activities
and that of the other Elders and "the pimps". The teepees will surely fall when their wives find out OH YEAH!
Lots of crushed teepees! (Arawaks live in teepees too!) If Babylon Palace EVIDENCE
(married Elders and others on surveilance tapes) cause Babylon Palace to fall,
there will be a whole domino effect of crushed teepees!
Simian said:"I ponder THE EVIDENCE of sex and drugs with the father" repeat: EVIDENCE
Joran (literally) bit his tongue bloody to avoid testifying against Paul when Paul was brought in.
Joran refused to go to the court. (he ultimately was not made to go) that's online.
The dice throwers=Lions and other Players at the Casablanca (the "white house") Casino
Dicemen = The Casablanca Dealers They saw Natalee there, it's all written down
The fly=NH and others who venture into C 'N C's (the "fly trap with honey laden notes")
More than one house of music= C 'N C's; Wyndham as well. Wyndham has a "music house" too.
Shivas=they were the "Gods" of brothers (Kalpoes) They were following them to make sure that
they stuck to the lie and didn't sing. When released, they were "never alone".
The Elders=They play in the small houses of Babylon too.
The maze=the process that leads tourist girls from the Fly trap to a Lion's Den in Babylon
The lions=Partakers of Babylon's goods and services
Only David left the Lion's Den alive= Dave has unknowingly visited Babylon while searching Found animal carcus
ThreadSurfers = NH Forums addictees; Online researchers (Googlers)
Cowboys = Texas Equusearch, specifically. (Aruban LE won't open the maze for the Cowboys
unless the cowboys refuse the peace pipe) of course not, the Wyndham was one of their
sponsors, that was the "peace pipe". Equusearch was staying at the Wyndham.
(I'm sure that all the proffered rooms, not just Wyndham's, had "singing beetles")
Messengers = Paid informants from inside Babylon
Eden =Where Natalee was first hidden. Room adjacent to rear exit/entry of Lion's Den,
accessable by hole underground. There is still DNA in the Lion's Den.
The "stupid Cowboys with Arawak guides" were kept far from Eden.
The singing cards sang the right tunes and the key remained hidden.
She is still on the premises, now buried at the top of a mound near the pool locker.
The poolman knows this. It is a mound that was created by intallation of a utility
near the newer addition. Near the spa addition, I believe. Near Cafe' Baci (Roman
themed resturaunt) (see Roman money) These are all lobby level which is actually
below the first floor level.

The Gods are talking
and they say that
Paulus Van Der Sloot killed Natalee Holloway


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Chata on August 02, 2008, 12:56:40 AM
OK, here is the rest of it:

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 9:59 pm
DirtyHand can bring down all houses
(seedy little ho houses for his Arawak men and Hotel Casino perks for Lions)
He walks in all circles
consort to all, except for the gods
(He does not let on to the Hotel owners that he knows what goes on at their establishments)
He knows the sacrifice is not responsible
(He knows Joran handed Natalee off)
Joran's section of the maze [his work place] stops at the Lion's den.
The dice throwers know the maze of the rave
(do not confuse this RAVE with a party, formal def of rave=rage &roar= Lions)
and the fly that entered the trap
Virgin Marys for picky high rollers who don't want used ones are drugged
at CNC's fly trap which is the beginning of the maze.
DirtyHand is the key
************************************************
On 6-23 MARIAINE CROES said "There is a reasonable suspicion that (Paulus van der Sloot) knows something and is involved in the disappearance." In a statement, Croes called Paulus van der Sloot the fifth suspect in the disappearance of NATALEE.
Now read what Simian had to say about the 5th:
Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 4:56 pm
The 5th suspect has an alibi so strong that he has everybody baffled.
Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:00 pm
The 5th suspect was the boyfriend from earlier in the week.
Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:03 pm
The party-goers said the 5th one was with them. He was the host. How could he have left?
Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:09 pm
A scorned lover needs a motive? Drives some people to some crazy deeds.
Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:13 pm
A jealous boyfriend was at home with some friends. He couldn’t have done it. Sometimes friends will cover for each other.
Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:16 pm
He had to be let go
Paulus' duties were suspended on or about 6/17/05.
He had been brought in for questioning that day
Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:22 pm
This is not my theory. This is for real.
Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:26 pm
The alibi story is the almost the latest.
The latest is that there’s a gap in the time-line for the boys.
It is true that one of them tried to off himself.
Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:29 pm
I did not say an ex. Do you people read? I not into repeating myself.
Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:41 pm
Simian Says: Your comment is awaiting moderation.
June 22nd, 2005 at 5:40 pm
Simian Says: Your comment is awaiting moderation.
June 22nd, 2005 at 5:38 pm
Checkme…check this…and please recheck:
Girl comes to Aruba. Meets cool and crazy guy in C@$ino. Goes out with him. He declares that to be the case. Can’t deny it. It’s on tape. (Aug. 10, 2005)
*******************************************
Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 6:06 pm
I ponder the evidence of sex and drugs with the father. It was to hard for her and she could not handle the pressure. I am done. I am leaving now…..


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on August 02, 2008, 03:18:08 AM
Simian Says: June 28th, 2005 at 2:18 am
YOU'RE BANNED the poetry. The Simian is a frenchman. Blue blood if you should know.


Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 2:59 am
The Simian Doppleganger is upset because the arawak nation is hiding the truth from the cowboys
DirtyHand knows
Simian knows
The Simian stated for 2 days, the key would come from the hague the next day
Shango said no two times
Is Simian a DirtyHand too
Has the Simian played with the lions
in the houses of ill-repute and poison notes
where the innocent flies are lured?
Has the Simian, primate that he is, fed with the other animals?
Back ye fetid mongrel, as the 46th are you; delegate of the 7th level of inferno,
not birthed, but spewed from the dark chasm of a nightmare!


This is beginning to be clearer all the time.  "played" as in music.   Frenchman as in the name.  Wowie! Zowie! Batman!!


Thanks Lala's and 2NJSons...clearer to me as well....keep it simple, after all Shango and Simian were posting on the FP.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on August 02, 2008, 03:23:04 AM
Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 2:50 pm
This is bad. Really bad…He (fifth) has a history of making himself be something he is not.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:01 pm
Arawaks often go to play (THE "GAME") in small houses of Babylon with the offspring of the Elders (who "play in the maze")


Even if you play cards in the house of babylon as an arawak, you still have DirtyHand


That depends on who the "arawaks" are. LOL  Gamblers?  ALE?  Arubans? 


Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:42 pm
Arawaks hold singing card from babylon (they were in jail)
There is also a trio. One Babylonian. 2 Shivas.
Arawaks can’t let babylonian Card (DirtyHand) sing because hand holding it dirty too.
Many teepees fall. No Wampum.
(DirtyHand is kept hidden-a witness, not a suspect.....can break alibi)


Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:01 pm
Arawaks often go to play in small houses of Babylon with the offspring of the Elders (pimps, forbidden fruits)


Arawaks=ALE

Arawaks hold singing card from babylon (they were in jail)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on August 02, 2008, 03:31:09 AM
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 8:27 pm
DirtyHand and the fallen judge may not be crucified

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:43 pm
The fallen judge agreed to sing because he can hum any tune
He needs to sing for his son, or see the end of his babylonian offspring (are these 2 different people? is one DirtyHand?)


Cololmbo
Are you saying that the "son" and the "babylonian offspring" are two different people?  As in  Lorenzo and Joran?


Lala’s…one of the few times I have been right decoding COLUMBO it was about Lorenzo. I thought he was one of the singing cards?

Have often thought this was the legal checkmate – Paulus, Lorenzo and Joran – they don’t have to testify against each other.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on August 02, 2008, 03:42:35 AM
Hi Chata..Nice to see you again…Thanks for posting these.

Shango=FBI playing cat and mouse with Mansur


Ahhh!….This ties together some research and theories of different Monkeys! Can you say ‘witness protection program’, throw in a gambler or two and Florida. You know who you are and you also know my thoughts on this. Needless to say, I can’t elaborate any further! Probably said too much already… ::MonkeyWink::





Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on August 02, 2008, 07:03:23 AM
These are the posts found on Ian's Blog some time later.  Given all the info that is known now about this case I find much of it extremely interesting.  This Shango sounds more like Merian to me. My comments in red.

posted 8-23-05

Shango Said:
11:22 am

The Lamb shall leave the pen in a fortnight Joran was clearly the Lamb and he didn't have much time left to spend in jail by August 23rd.

Shiva was seen at the Lion’s Den. He tried to camoflauge into the herd. Deepak was caught on camera by FOX trying to get into Carlos and Charlies again.

DirtyHand had still holds the Key, but has fled the Arawak Island. Jan van der Straten had left  Aruba for Bonaire. I think he was gone by now. Of course that blows the Deutekom theory if Dirty Hand really was Straten

The Cowboys are riding in circles but cannot find the truth. They are blinded by the lights
of the messengers. Too much reading of blogs causing much confusion as to what was evidence and what wasn't.

Non-Virgin Mary and her flock Rolled for many days, finding comfort in the Monkey Den.
Enjoying a Baccanalia Dance in the Ampitheatre for the Lion’s pleasure to be chosen later.  The kids partied the whole time they were there.  They didn't deny this...it is on record.

The False Messenger deceives the anguished Cowgirl with Osteo scraps.  I think this is a refernce to Jossy and Beth. MOO


Shango Said:
2:50 pm

Head CowGirl’s mind is poisoned by the Sumarian Messenger. Another reference to Jossy here. Again my opinion based on things I know now.

Dirty Hand is safe behind the Babylonian Fortress.

The Lamb does not bleat nor does he fear the Cowboys. Joran knows they can't touch him any longer and he will get away with this. Daddy took care of it all.

Mary is not on Arawak Nation. Natalee has been moved.

The Elder is confident of vindication and the slaying of a Lion. Paulus also knows that it is all over. They just have to wait it out. He knows too much and no one wants it told.

2 Shivas can not tell about Eden, if they have no knowledge of it. Kalpoes don't know where they finally put Natalee.  They should have said so and come clean. Their lives would be very different by now...maybe even better. Fools.

The Messengers spin webs.
 So much is being said and written about this case on the news and internet that it will be hard to sort out what is truth from specualtion.  Boy!  Is that ever the truth!

Gosh!  I wish Shango would hop back in here and tell me what I got wrong.  ::MonkeyCool::


Still catching up…

Lala’s thanks for posting these and your interpretations. I have never seen these!

Not sure if you are aware of the term fortnight or not because of some of our mutual friends…It is a term I used for over 4 decades and now never use, just like “what is for tea”!

It may be a clue as to Shango’s identity? ::MonkeyEek::

Fortnight
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The fortnight is a unit of time equivalent to fourteen days. The word derives from the Old English feorwertyne niht, meaning "fourteen nights".[1][2]
Fortnight is a commonly used word in Britain, Ireland and many Commonwealth countries such as India and Australia where many wages, salaries and most social security benefits are paid on a fortnightly basis.[3] The word is rarely used in the United States, but is used regionally in Canada. Payroll systems may use the term biweekly in reference to pay periods every two weeks. The terms fortnightly and biweekly are often mistakenly conflated with semimonthly.

In many languages, there is no single word for a two-week period and the equivalents of "two weeks" or "fourteen days" have to be used. In Spanish, Italian, French and in Portuguese, there are the terms quincena, quindici giorni, quinzaine and quinzena, all meaning "fifteen days". Similarly, in Greek, the term dekapenthimero meaning "fifteen days" is also used. In Arabic the short term "أسبوعان" (two weeks) is commonly used and the longer term "خمسة عشر يوماً" (fifteen days) is used to a lesser extent. In Hebrew the term "שבועיים" (two weeks) is commonly used.
The fortnight is the base unit of time in the humorous FFF System of units.

FFF System

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
The Furlong/Firkin/Fortnight (FFF) system is a set of units that uses impractical and outdated measurements. It is a humorous system of units and is not used in practice. These units, notably the microfortnight, are mainly used jokingly in computer science.
Besides having the meaning of "any obscure unit", furlongs per fortnight have also served frequently in the classroom as an example on how to reduce a unit's fraction




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 02, 2008, 07:33:57 AM
Arubans=Indians

So you say the Arawaks are the Arubans?  That makes the most sense, of course, there are those that will disagree.  Sorry I am asking the same question over and over.  I just want to be certain I understand your thinking here.

Indians=Arubans

I think I can safely say you mean Arawaks are the Arubans are the Indians.  I didn't know how much I missed you until today.   ::MonkeyWink::

Now, one more question.  Do you think the term arawaks every changes in Shango's postings?  Is the term arawaks always, in your opinion, the same regardless of the context of the post? TIA


(Stop rolling your eyes at me...I have a reason for asking this.)

never said Arubans=Arawaks    or     Arawaks=Indians

did say Arubans=Indians

If Arawaks did = Arubans....who are the Indians???!!!



LOL   I knew what you meant, just teasing you a little.  Now, where were we?  OK, the Indians, such as, cowboys and indians with Indians being the Arubans....etc.  Now who are the arawaks again?    I have forgotten after all this time.   Let's go back to the 5th.  I think I have better luck.  ::MonkeyWink::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 02, 2008, 07:41:13 AM
Hi Chata..Nice to see you again…Thanks for posting these.

Shango=FBI playing cat and mouse with Mansur


Ahhh!….This ties together some research and theories of different Monkeys! Can you say ‘witness protection program’, throw in a gambler or two and Florida. You know who you are and you also know my thoughts on this. Needless to say, I can’t elaborate any further! Probably said too much already… ::MonkeyWink::


No you have not gone too far.  I want to talk about the gambler in Florida.  I think he has a role in all this.  Shango loved to reference gambling.   I just wish I could make a few more connections to him and we would be done.  Oh well...





Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 02, 2008, 07:44:01 AM
OK, need more coffee...messed up your quote Mum.  sorry.  Be right back.

Thanks for the info on fortnight...oh it does tell me something.  I just can't say those two posts are the original Shango.  Yet, it could have been given to another person to post by the original Shango.  Too early for my mind to be going there today.  I will get into trouble for sure.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 02, 2008, 08:02:20 AM
Let's examine those last two posts by Shango.  Keep in mind there is no way to know if it was the real Shango.  In fact, it is much more composed than most of his stuff, so I am thinking it was mainly written after watching a lot of television coverage.  There is nothing in there that was not known already at that time.  I am cautious about it being the real Shango for that reason.  The entire two posts are right in line with most of the news coverage on that date and a few weeks before.  Whoever composed it was or had been reading some works that used the term "fortnight" or it was a favorite of theirs.  I have terms that I like to use that are not up to date or often used.  That is coming from someone that could have been a writer in one of my other lives. LOL

Anyway, I am privy to some information that would lead me to that conclusion and which has nothing to do with Shango at all, but another poster that was cryptic also but got little attention.  One of the reasons I tend toward Shango being someone we all know well around here.  I know I don't make much sense, but that is what I think right now...subject to change after Colombo arrives to contradict me. LOL


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on August 02, 2008, 08:55:30 AM
Hi Chata..Nice to see you again…Thanks for posting these.

Shango=FBI playing cat and mouse with Mansur


Ahhh!….This ties together some research and theories of different Monkeys! Can you say ‘witness protection program’, throw in a gambler or two and Florida. You know who you are and you also know my thoughts on this. Needless to say, I can’t elaborate any further! Probably said too much already… ::MonkeyWink::






very interesting......and who assembled this document about "the game?????"
http://www.ca11.uscourts.gov/opinions/ops/200214306.pdf




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on August 02, 2008, 08:56:12 AM
Chata:

great stuff, btw!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on August 02, 2008, 09:07:10 AM
Hi Chata..Nice to see you again…Thanks for posting these.

Shango=FBI playing cat and mouse with Mansur


Ahhh!….This ties together some research and theories of different Monkeys! Can you say ‘witness protection program’, throw in a gambler or two and Florida. You know who you are and you also know my thoughts on this. Needless to say, I can’t elaborate any further! Probably said too much already… ::MonkeyWink::


No you have not gone too far.  I want to talk about the gambler in Florida.  I think he has a role in all this.  Shango loved to reference gambling.   I just wish I could make a few more connections to him and we would be done.  Oh well...




Good Morning Lala's and COLOMBO...LOL...I was talking about going to far on my theory about the FBI Roboposters...Big Brother is watching...LOL

Will be back in a little bit...I hope...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 02, 2008, 11:50:49 AM
Chata
Thanks for posting that stuff again.  It's in the first Shango thread and all throughout the other forum, but I am glad you put it together in one place.  Now if I can just remember where it is when i need it.  Too bad there is nothing else we can do with it but speculate. I do have a question for you....do you really think Paulus is the 5th suspect?  Do you think he was a boyfriend from earlier in the week?

Knowing Simian's identity I have since decided that Simian was leading us to another person.  Merian was indicating that Freddy was involved and that is why Mum and I keep going back to him as the 5th suspect.  I know all about what was being discussed at the time, but Simian knew his cousin was in deep trouble and he also knew that he wasn't the only person involved.  That is why I think Shango was trying to remove Freddy from the equation by going to the gambling information and game playing diversion.  Both of them were fighting each other and not really trying to help the posters.  They were each pointing to different people and circumstances.  Neither of which were beneficial. MOO


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: finngirl on August 02, 2008, 02:20:30 PM

did that august shango post originate at Ian's site
or was it reproduced there?

cuz two "shango" posts appeared at the CnC's website
and were removed by admins fairly quickly,
followed by the locking of the thread

someone (???) had been banned at SM
and on that same day a buncha posts w/ SM nics
but not made by SM posters
began appearing at the CnC's site

pretty much all the codetalkers
found the new shango's style contrived/awkward
and decided it was a scam/revenge thing
coming from the banned poster

ie: osteo scraps = bones/bone fragments

there were two other shango posts (in july?)
which were also truly awkward ...
containing references to the red monkey/etc ...
and those were judged to be bogus as well

there were two july posts/two august posts, yes?

not clear re which set of bogus posts
originated at CnC's website, but it did happen

anyone else remember this?   :roll:



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on August 02, 2008, 02:38:39 PM
Chata:

Would add to the section of your post posted underneath:

Judge arrested in Aruba case
Fifth suspect in custody after U.S. teen's disappearance

Thursday, June 23, 2005; Posted: 10:01 p.m. EDT (02:01 GMT)

Paul Van Der Sloot was arrested after being questioned by police as a witness over the weekend.

ORANJESTAD, Aruba (CNN) -- An Aruban judge, the father of a 17-year-old suspect in the disappearance of an Alabama teenager, also has been arrested in the case, the island's police commissioner said Thursday.
http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/06/23/aruba.holloway/index.html


************************************************
On 6-23 MARIAINE CROES said "There is a reasonable suspicion that (Paulus van der Sloot) knows something and is involved in the disappearance." In a statement, Croes called Paulus van der Sloot the fifth suspect in the disappearance of NATALEE.
Now read what Simian had to say about the 5th:
Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 4:56 pm
The 5th suspect has an alibi so strong that he has everybody baffled.
Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:00 pm
The 5th suspect was the boyfriend from earlier in the week.
Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:03 pm
The party-goers said the 5th one was with them. He was the host. How could he have left?
Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:09 pm
A scorned lover needs a motive? Drives some people to some crazy deeds.
Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:13 pm
A jealous boyfriend was at home with some friends. He couldn’t have done it. Sometimes friends will cover for each other.
Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:16 pm
He had to be let go
Paulus' duties were suspended on or about 6/17/05.
He had been brought in for questioning that day
Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:22 pm
This is not my theory. This is for real.
Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:26 pm
The alibi story is the almost the latest.
The latest is that there’s a gap in the time-line for the boys.
It is true that one of them tried to off himself.
Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:29 pm
I did not say an ex. Do you people read? I not into repeating myself.
Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:41 pm
Simian Says: Your comment is awaiting moderation.
June 22nd, 2005 at 5:40 pm
Simian Says: Your comment is awaiting moderation.
June 22nd, 2005 at 5:38 pm
Checkme…check this…and please recheck:
Girl comes to Aruba. Meets cool and crazy guy in C@$ino. Goes out with him. He declares that to be the case. Can’t deny it. It’s on tape. (Aug. 10, 2005)
*******************************************
Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 6:06 pm
I ponder the evidence of sex and drugs with the father. It was to hard for her and she could not handle the pressure. I am done. I am leaving now…..


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 02, 2008, 03:44:34 PM

did that august shango post originate at Ian's site
or was it reproduced there?

cuz two "shango" posts appeared at the CnC's website
and were removed by admins fairly quickly,
followed by the locking of the thread

someone (???) had been banned at SM
and on that same day a buncha posts w/ SM nics
but not made by SM posters
began appearing at the CnC's site

pretty much all the codetalkers
found the new shango's style contrived/awkward
and decided it was a scam/revenge thing
coming from the banned poster

ie: osteo scraps = bones/bone fragments

there were two other shango posts (in july?)
which were also truly awkward ...
containing references to the red monkey/etc ...
and those were judged to be bogus as well

there were two july posts/two august posts, yes?

not clear re which set of bogus posts
originated at CnC's website, but it did happen

anyone else remember this?   :roll:



From my understanding they did not originate here.  Now, if my source is not accurate then all bets are off.  Ian's blog is where they were managed to be captured.  That is why we can't compare email addys and IP locations. But then again the person who told me could easily be wrong.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 02, 2008, 03:48:57 PM
Well poop!  I hate it when I hit post before I am ready.  Sorry.  Yes there is another post or two that is not in the original stuff. I think you are correct about July.  Everything in those Ian posts were in the news a few days or weeks before.  That is why put that word of caution out about them.  They may be fake.  One thing is true, they fit with things that had already happened before they were posted. That does not mean they were not part of the distraction plan already in place at the time.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 02, 2008, 04:10:24 PM
i would love to write a book chronicling the evolution of the Shango posts.  The various interpretations and all the speculation and how it may or may not fit with the reality of the case.  So many people have done some outstanding work on this stuff. They should receive recognition for all the hard work.That would be interesting to actually have it all laid out in cohesive form to read. Alas, my dreams will remain day dreams and unfortunately knowing all we know about  Shango and Simian will serve little purpose any longer. Too much time has passed and nothing will come of it.  We will forever be guessing...that is unless......


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 02, 2008, 08:40:22 PM
When in the heck is everyone?? There is a party somewhere, isn't there and I wasn't invited?  ::MonkeyShocked::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: finngirl on August 03, 2008, 04:31:51 AM

sim's posts were conversational
and didn't contain much urgency

the june shango posts contained many imperatives:
this/that must happen or _ _ _ _ will not result
light the fires
tell the cowboys
follow the music
there must be a sacrifice
alibi must be broken
etc

the june shango posts were quite distinctive in terms of
style/rhythm/repetition/imagery/vocabulary

the july/august shango posts were not anywhere near
the previously displayed level of writing

Winston Churchill's famous remark about the Soviet Union:
"a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma"
comes to mind

still planning to name my next cat: shango

 :wink:



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on August 03, 2008, 07:58:16 AM
COLOMBO…Is this Alfonso Riveroll…addresses in Miami, as well as other Florida locations…TIA

Arawak King =The King of Babylon Palace, I mean The Wyndham president.
He has Aruban LE (The Arawaks) by the gonads.
********************************
Wyndham recently sold BTW; I think Rivero is getting out of Dodge.)
Much of his info. (pictues at gatherings) )has been erased from the net.
Date of Jossy's article about an encounter with him and his Atlantis Hotel owner buddy
in an online archive of Diario WAS CHANGED. It was changed to reflect that meeting was
after the Atlantis search, when in fact it was before. FBI has their eye on Rivero,
friend and financer of Atlantis Hotel owner. WRONG HOTEL Searched by Crimson Monkey who
proceeded to gum up the works, though I'll admit that Atlantis is indeed an "old hotel".


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on August 03, 2008, 09:01:53 AM
COLOMBO…Is this Alfonso Riveroll…addresses in Miami, as well as other Florida locations…TIA

Arawak King =The King of Babylon Palace, I mean The Wyndham president.
He has Aruban LE (The Arawaks) by the gonads.
********************************
Wyndham recently sold BTW; I think Rivero is getting out of Dodge.)
Much of his info. (pictues at gatherings) )has been erased from the net.
Date of Jossy's article about an encounter with him and his Atlantis Hotel owner buddy
in an online archive of Diario WAS CHANGED. It was changed to reflect that meeting was
after the Atlantis search, when in fact it was before. FBI has their eye on Rivero,
friend and financer of Atlantis Hotel owner. WRONG HOTEL Searched by Crimson Monkey who
proceeded to gum up the works, though I'll admit that Atlantis is indeed an "old hotel".


no info on this.......


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 03, 2008, 09:17:53 AM
COLOMBO…Is this Alfonso Riveroll…addresses in Miami, as well as other Florida locations…TIA

Arawak King =The King of Babylon Palace, I mean The Wyndham president.
He has Aruban LE (The Arawaks) by the gonads.
********************************
Wyndham recently sold BTW; I think Rivero is getting out of Dodge.)
Much of his info. (pictues at gatherings) )has been erased from the net.
Date of Jossy's article about an encounter with him and his Atlantis Hotel owner buddy
in an online archive of Diario WAS CHANGED. It was changed to reflect that meeting was
after the Atlantis search, when in fact it was before. FBI has their eye on Rivero,
friend and financer of Atlantis Hotel owner. WRONG HOTEL Searched by Crimson Monkey who
proceeded to gum up the works, though I'll admit that Atlantis is indeed an "old hotel".


Don't anyone throw anything at me...but a former monkey named Susan/Opus or whatever kept talking about this guy Riveroll.  Let me see what I can find that I may have on him.  I know some think she was a bit kooky, but I found some of her info to be interesting and even credible when checked out for details.   It's just another facet of Shango we may want to look at closer. 

OK, heading under the table...just in case someone tosses a banana at me. LOL


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on August 03, 2008, 09:34:22 AM
interesting notion, particularly in the context of the Loesge post...........and in the context of PVDS babylonian card-and how it could 'open a gate' (or a vice)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 03, 2008, 11:58:47 AM
So...which poster, Simian or Shango, do most Tangoers believe was trying to actually provide legitimate information or may have truly known what happened?  I have gone back and forth on this question.  I have my own interpretation of much of the Shango posts, and mine is somewhat different that what I see being posted here these days.  I won't start any "posting wars", if you will, over this.  I am simply interested in tyring to move this forward in any way possible.  Do most monkeys put more credence in Shango or Simian????


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on August 03, 2008, 12:26:40 PM
TS2:

Both knew what happened (Simian through his LE contacts), but Simian's business interests appear to be tied to Aruban tourism (he says as much)......so, naturally, there are details he'd prefer not to be out there......

on the other hand (not a pun)......

Shango knows this and calls Simian on it


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 03, 2008, 12:27:41 PM
So...which poster, Simian or Shango, do most Tangoers believe was trying to actually provide legitimate information or may have truly known what happened?  I have gone back and forth on this question.  I have my own interpretation of much of the Shango posts, and mine is somewhat different that what I see being posted here these days.  I won't start any "posting wars", if you will, over this.  I am simply interested in tyring to move this forward in any way possible.  Do most monkeys put more credence in Shango or Simian????

Please post some of them.  I promise there will be no wars. If we can handle some of the crazy posts over the last few months, we can handle yours.  I bet yours does not involve cannibals, does it?  I am still waiting to read that interpretation.  I would love to see what you think about this stuff.  As for credibility...well I think they each had their own agenda and that didn't help things.  Please, let us read it.  It's been really quiet in here, just be prepared to get some questions from me.  I promise I won't be ugly, but I will want you to explain things further.  That is all I have ever asked when someone makes a claim about Shango or Simian.  Just allow me and others to ask questions and then do your best to answer them or just say...that is what I feel about it and let it go.  You have always been a great poster...why stop now?  By now you should know I don't believe everything or any one person's version totally. I feel pretty sure if I were to actually say what I think I would start the war and not you.  ::MonkeyWink::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on August 03, 2008, 12:44:15 PM
Chata:

Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
There is whisperer on the line. The sword of Damocles will soon fall. I can’t say whose on the throne.
Did he think he could rule forever from his hideaway?
All along the gamblers knew who he was



sword of Damocles="walk a mile in my shoes"

As the 46th is the Simian!!!!!??? Hotel owner???!!!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 03, 2008, 12:59:36 PM
I don't mind questions at all.  My reasons for not posting much in this thread anymore have more to due with frustration than anything else.  I study the posts from Simian and Shango often and I have believed for a very long time that Simian was a mouthpiece for ALE from the very beginning.  I have been trying to determine what really made him switch to a cryptic style of posting.  Being a mouthpiece for ALE would provide him with some level of "protection", if you will, for posting in simple and concise language.  But he changed.  Why?

I have searched to old posts for that reason and can only guess that someone, maybe Shango using a different nic and IP posted something that caused this change.  If true, it leads me to believe Shango could spill the beans.  Why else would Simian need to "go cryptic"?  ALE wanted him out there posting about how hard they were working to solve this case.  They wanted Simian out there helping to mislead the Americans and divert the attention from the guilty parties.

My biggest frustration is that when I conclude that either of them DID know what happened, but did nothing to help the family it pizzes me off.

If Shango did know something and was indeed posting from Florida what would keep him from telling the world, or at least the family?  Well...when Shango refers to being able to "see from afar" I think of American law enforcement and satelite surveilance.  (too many questions would have to be answered by our government if that were the case)  I also consider an American with business interests in Aruba.  Someone who is active enough on Aruba that he knows the "game", but will not sacrifice his business interests. 

Either way, I would have to say that if I am going to continue with the Simain/Shango post study I will need to focus on Shango and not so much on Simian and his 5th suspect posts.  I think this was all a distraction.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on August 03, 2008, 01:20:49 PM
TS2:

Why would ALE want investigative details out there? Who could benefit from this?

"If YOU were asleep, who answered YOUR phone?"


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 03, 2008, 01:30:29 PM
TS2:

Why would ALE want investigative details out there? Who could benefit from this?

"If YOU were asleep, who answered YOUR phone?"

Because the FBI was observing.  ALE would not mind Simian posting what they knew could have been leaked by them.  ALE was not incompetent in their follow up questions, or lack thereof.  They were deliberate.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on August 03, 2008, 01:52:35 PM
exactly.......ALE was deliberate.......so now, who is the intended consumer of the information posted by Simian?

who did you say was observing?

who is Shango?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 03, 2008, 02:03:52 PM
exactly.......ALE was deliberate.......so now, who is the intended consumer of the information posted by Simian?  You and me and anyone who was paying attention to what Red and Tom were posting on Scare Monkeys

who did you say was observing? The FBI.  For instance, the post you selected about answering the phones...the FBI knew about that so what was the harm in posting about it?  It's what ALE did NOT ask because the FBI was there that is missing

who is Shango? I do not know.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 03, 2008, 03:09:09 PM
Truthseeker
You are correct in many of your assumptions.  Simian/Merian was hotlined to ALE. He just didn't know he was being set up at the time.   Simian, Checkme, and a few others were indeed trying to help and hurt at the same time.  I think at the beginning they wanted to help because they did not know how deep this cover was going to be.  Then they were let in on a little secret....from then on they changed their words and sometimes their nicknames. You are closer to the truth than you think. MOO


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 03, 2008, 03:12:26 PM
Lala's,

So to move the discussion along...Shango's first post was a challenge to Simian:

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:09 pm
Simian, who else plays in the orchestra? A Babylonian….


Simian and the posters are talking about Steve Croes.  Simian says the music man’s song was not on the bill.  Shango is trying to let everyone know that others are involved in “singing the wrong tune”.   This is not a “solo” performance.  There is an “orchestra”. When he writes ‘A Babylonian’ it is not a question.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 03, 2008, 03:22:38 PM
Lala's,

So to move the discussion along...Shango's first post was a challenge to Simian:

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:09 pm
Simian, who else plays in the orchestra? A Babylonian….


Simian and the posters are talking about Steve Croes.  Simian says the music man’s song was not on the bill.  Shango is trying to let everyone know that others are involved in “singing the wrong tune”.   This is not a “solo” performance.  There is an “orchestra”. When he writes ‘A Babylonian’ it is not a question.

Agreed.  Next....


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on August 03, 2008, 03:26:03 PM
Shango is calling Simian out for helping to keep DirtyHand hidden


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on August 03, 2008, 03:26:51 PM
and also dirty hand........bad luck for wampum many moons


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 03, 2008, 03:34:34 PM
Shango is calling Simian out for helping to keep DirtyHand hidden

Or...is Shango calling Simian out because Simian has begun to use more cryptic terms and Shango knows that Simian may or may not know anything other than what ALE allows him to know.  Therefore, enter Shango. 

Was Shango the doppleganger????


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 03, 2008, 03:36:25 PM
TS2:

Why would ALE want investigative details out there? Who could benefit from this?

"If YOU were asleep, who answered YOUR phone?"

What if those details were already out there per the Aruban media and the rest of the media just didn't know it yet?  It would not be a violation of protocol to say so, if it was well known on the island already, would it?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 03, 2008, 03:40:24 PM

Agreed.  Next....

Shango posted directly to Simian, yet Simian would not respond.  Simian ad responded to most all other posts...but not to Shango's.

Then:

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:10 pm
Simian, older PVDS had one ot two cards up his sleeve. They have been played, and lost.
Will one of the cards sing?


Shango let's Simian know that HE knows who that Babylonian is.  Shango later in the evening posts that Dirty Hand was one of the cards that was played...and lost.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:53 pm
DirtyHand is the key
He walks with the elders
He walks in all houses
And he walked with the fallen elder
he was the hidden card that was played
now if he sings, babylon will fall on the arawak nation


Someone high up found out what Dirty Hand (Van Der Straaten, imo, had done.  That is why Shango believes that card is lost.)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 03, 2008, 03:41:50 PM
TS2:

Why would ALE want investigative details out there? Who could benefit from this?

"If YOU were asleep, who answered YOUR phone?"

What if those details were already out there per the Aruban media and the rest of the media just didn't know it yet?  It would not be a violation of protocol to say so, if it was well known on the island already, would it?

Good point.  Simian may have only been parroting what he knew was already about to be reported.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 03, 2008, 03:43:45 PM
Shango is calling Simian out for helping to keep DirtyHand hidden

Or...is Shango calling Simian out because Simian has begun to use more cryptic terms and Shango knows that Simian may or may not know anything other than what ALE allows him to know.  Therefore, enter Shango. 

Was Shango the doppleganger????

That is a possibility, of course. Shango's IP was from Florida and the dopplegangers were from other areas of the USA.  If this is true, then Shango was a fake the entire time.  He knew nothing except to continue his distraction.  Shango showed up as soon as Simian began to finger the 5th suspect. I think if Simian had revealed that person's identity we would not be here today. Shango could see Simian was placing blame on someone other than Joran and the Kalpoes.  He was trying to prevent it.  Having said this...if you think Paulus is the 5th suspect..then you should also know that one of the doppleganger IP's originated from an area that had pro Sloot people at the time here in the USA. Shango did not want to blame J2K either, but he certainly didn't want his family/relatives/ friend implicated either. Just in case they were railroaded by the authorities in Aruba. Something else to ponder along the way. 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 03, 2008, 03:45:15 PM
TS2:

Why would ALE want investigative details out there? Who could benefit from this?

"If YOU were asleep, who answered YOUR phone?"

What if those details were already out there per the Aruban media and the rest of the media just didn't know it yet?  It would not be a violation of protocol to say so, if it was well known on the island already, would it?

Good point.  Simian may have only been parroting what he knew was already about to be reported.

I would say that is a very good possibility. Maybe at the 95% mark at this point. So that lends Simian less credibility in knowing anything of value. Does it not?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 03, 2008, 03:49:12 PM

Agreed.  Next....

Shango posted directly to Simian, yet Simian would not respond.  Simian ad responded to most all other posts...but not to Shango's.

Then:

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:10 pm
Simian, older PVDS had one ot two cards up his sleeve. They have been played, and lost.
Will one of the cards sing?


Shango let's Simian know that HE knows who that Babylonian is.  Shango later in the evening posts that Dirty Hand was one of the cards that was played...and lost.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:53 pm
DirtyHand is the key
He walks with the elders
He walks in all houses
And he walked with the fallen elder
he was the hidden card that was played
now if he sings, babylon will fall on the arawak nation


Someone high up found out what Dirty Hand (Van Der Straaten, imo, had done.  That is why Shango believes that card is lost.)

Oh you are getting to the touchy part here...not very many of us can agree on who Dirty Hand is.  Without some agreement there can be no movement forward.  That has been one of the stumbling blocks to this whole thing.  If you go with Straten, then so many other theories are trampled on and that is when the war starts....keep talking. We may need to take each view one at a time and see what fits with Dirty Hand. Remember, Shango tells us that Dirty Hand was discovered.  Every time  I mention that fact it's glossed over for some reason.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on August 03, 2008, 03:50:59 PM
If Simian makes his living on tourism in Aruba, then he could be as credible, but more likely to withold any details which would be damaging.......i.e. DirtyHand.......so, in the context posted earlier by somebody else:

quote:   "Shango=FBI playing cat and mouse with Mansur"

the scenerio makes alot of sense


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 03, 2008, 03:55:50 PM

That is a possibility, of course. Shango's IP was from Florida and the dopplegangers were from other areas of the USA.  If this is true, then Shango was a fake the entire time.  He knew nothing except to continue his distraction.  Shango showed up as soon as Simian began to finger the 5th suspect. I think if Simian had revealed that person's identity we would not be here today. Shango could see Simian was placing blame on someone other than Joran and the Kalpoes.  He was trying to prevent it.  Having said this...if you think Paulus is the 5th suspect..then you should also know that one of the doppleganger IP's originated from an area that had pro Sloot people at the time here in the USA. Shango did not want to blame J2K either, but he certainly didn't want his family/relatives/ friend implicated either. Just in case they were railroaded by the authorities in Aruba. Something else to ponder along the way. 

I had not thought of it that way.  I was looking at it as a possibility that Shango started impersonating Simian as a way to get into Simian's head.  To discredit him more than anything else.  It's just one of many thoughts I had about Shango.  haha



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on August 03, 2008, 03:56:09 PM
DirtyHand is not an arawak

The arawaks hold the singing cards
arawaks can't let babylonian card (DirtyHand=babylonian) sing
because hand holding it dirty too (polis=dirty hand)
(DirtyHand not polis)

Arawaks often play in the small houses of babylon with offspring of the elders (hands dirty)

Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 12:23 am
Follow the notes ($)
to the poison house
where the children of the babylonians (pimps)
and the arawak nation (Babalu's officials corps)
meet, under cover of delusion.
In the maze
the lions which play
shall be found.
The gamblers also took note.
Tell the cowboys!

DirtyHand is the link (between pimps and Babalu's official corps)
He holds the real key (to the poison house)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 03, 2008, 03:57:32 PM
I feel sure Simian makes his living on tourism and a few other ways too.  He can earn it playing his guitar of he can earn it working 9 to 5. Either way his umbilical is definitely close to the heart of Aruba. 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on August 03, 2008, 03:58:32 PM
DirtyHands power is that he can break the alibi

"Are the children of the elders THERE (poison house?) or did they flee to babylon"

DirtyHand knows
this is his power


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on August 03, 2008, 03:59:06 PM
Perhaps DirtyHand knows the Simian


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 03, 2008, 04:04:35 PM
DirtyHand is not an arawak

The arawaks hold the singing cards
arawaks can't let babylonian card (DirtyHand=babylonian) sing
because hand holding it dirty too (polis=dirty hand)
(DirtyHand not polis)

Arawaks often play in the small houses of babylon with offspring of the elders (hands dirty)

Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 12:23 am
Follow the notes ($)
to the poison house
where the children of the babylonians (pimps)
and the arawak nation (Babalu's officials corps)
meet, under cover of delusion.
In the maze
the lions which play
shall be found.
The gamblers also took note.
Tell the cowboys!

DirtyHand is the link (between pimps and Babalu's official corps)
He holds the real key (to the poison house)

Let's look at some of the theories of who is Dirty Hand:

van der Straten...yep he fits, he definitely left the island as was told. He was accused of calling Paulus on a regular basis in the early days.

Ben Vocking...he fits also, he was there at the house when they came to search it, he lived there at some point. He walked with Paulus.

Frans Duetekom...Caps insists that this is the guy that is dirty hand. He made a compelling argument.  My only caveat is that those he was talking to about dirty hand could not have been any posters outside of the Aruban culture because they would not know about this guy.  Would Shango being in Florida know this too? 

Rudy Croes...he would fit also and Tylergal believed it to him. She made a compelling argument also.  I think Rudy fits other characters in Shango, but that is just me.

There are others that would fit also, depending on the context of the post. Colombo feel free to jump in here and give us your ideas about who dirty hand is also.  I want to hear them all.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 03, 2008, 04:05:19 PM

Oh you are getting to the touchy part here...not very many of us can agree on who Dirty Hand is.  Without some agreement there can be no movement forward.  That has been one of the stumbling blocks to this whole thing.  If you go with Straten, then so many other theories are trampled on and that is when the war starts....keep talking. We may need to take each view one at a time and see what fits with Dirty Hand. Remember, Shango tells us that Dirty Hand was discovered.  Every time  I mention that fact it's glossed over for some reason.

Yes, I know.  But here is are the posts that clinch it for me:

Shango on June 27th, 2005 12:28 pm
Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon with his
12:30 AM posting

Shango on June 27th, 2005 4:00 am
Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon with his 12:30 posting

Shango on June 27th, 2005 12:12 pm
Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon with his
12:30 AM posting
If the cowboys do not find the loot today, it will not be found

Shango on June 27th, 2005 12:26 pm
Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon with his
12:30 AM posting
Simian your Doppleganger is with us

Shango on June 27th, 2005 12:28 pm
Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon with his
12:30 AM posting

Shango on June 27th, 2005 9:44 pm
Babalu opened a window looking into babylon on his 12:31 A.M. Post
DirtyHand is alive

Shango on June 27th, 2005 9:48 pm
Babalu knew who dirty hand was at half past 12

drax on June 27th, 2005 10:57 pm
DirtyHand has walked through the maze:…is DirtyHand Poppa VDS?

Shango on June 27th, 2005 11:01 pm
The Drax asks a question for which he already provided an answer.

Shango on June 27th, 2005 11:04 pm
Babalu opened a window looking onto Babylon with his 12:30 A.M. post

drax on June 27th, 2005 11:08 pm
Shango says: The Drax asks a question for which he already provided an answer.
I don’t understand, Shango.

Babalú on June 27th, 2005 11:10 pm
He’s talking about Dirty Hands identity, please refer to my post of yesterday 12:30 AM. He is JVDS, and not Joran.

Lucy on June 27th, 2005 10:56 pm
Someone said last night that Dirty Hand was somebody in the police.

Shango on June 27th, 2005 11:13 pm
Lucy spoke at 10:56

watcher on June 30th, 2005 2:29 am
I think Subdude is on the right track about the media putting pressure on WHY the polis chief is leaving.


Shango on June 30th, 2005 2:31 am
Watcher opened a window looking onto babylon at 2:29.
He holds the key to the ONLY door which opens the door to the lions den


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on August 03, 2008, 04:07:04 PM
Shango is calling Simian out for helping to keep DirtyHand hidden

Or...is Shango calling Simian out because Simian has begun to use more cryptic terms and Shango knows that Simian may or may not know anything other than what ALE allows him to know.  Therefore, enter Shango. 

Was Shango the doppleganger????

That is a possibility, of course. Shango's IP was from Florida and the dopplegangers were from other areas of the USA.  If this is true, then Shango was a fake the entire time.  He knew nothing except to continue his distraction.  Shango showed up as soon as Simian began to finger the 5th suspect. I think if Simian had revealed that person's identity we would not be here today. Shango could see Simian was placing blame on someone other than Joran and the Kalpoes.  He was trying to prevent it.  Having said this...if you think Paulus is the 5th suspect..then you should also know that one of the doppleganger IP's originated from an area that had pro Sloot people at the time here in the USA. Shango did not want to blame J2K either, but he certainly didn't want his family/relatives/ friend implicated either. Just in case they were railroaded by the authorities in Aruba. Something else to ponder along the way. 


Simian mentions the 5th suspect and then also 'the father'......but note that there's no overlap card that was played (by PVDS)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on August 03, 2008, 04:08:05 PM
DirtyHand is not an arawak

The arawaks hold the singing cards
arawaks can't let babylonian card (DirtyHand=babylonian) sing
because hand holding it dirty too (polis=dirty hand)
(DirtyHand not polis)

Arawaks often play in the small houses of babylon with offspring of the elders (hands dirty)

Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 12:23 am
Follow the notes ($)
to the poison house
where the children of the babylonians (pimps)
and the arawak nation (Babalu's officials corps)
meet, under cover of delusion.
In the maze
the lions which play
shall be found.
The gamblers also took note.
Tell the cowboys!

DirtyHand is the link (between pimps and Babalu's official corps)
He holds the real key (to the poison house)

Let's look at some of the theories of who is Dirty Hand:

van der Straten...yep he fits, he definitely left the island as was told. He was accused of calling Paulus on a regular basis in the early days.

Ben Vocking...he fits also, he was there at the house when they came to search it, he lived there at some point. He walked with Paulus.

Frans Duetekom...Caps insists that this is the guy that is dirty hand. He made a compelling argument.  My only caveat is that those he was talking to about dirty hand could not have been any posters outside of the Aruban culture because they would not know about this guy.  Would Shango being in Florida know this too? 

Rudy Croes...he would fit also and Tylergal believed it to him. She made a compelling argument also.  I think Rudy fits other characters in Shango, but that is just me.

There are others that would fit also, depending on the context of the post. Colombo feel free to jump in here and give us your ideas about who dirty hand is also.  I want to hear them all.


you mention all arawaks......see first sentence


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 03, 2008, 04:09:24 PM
Perhaps DirtyHand knows the Simian

Perhaps Simian knows Dirty Hand personally. Doesn't Shango accuse Simian of participating in all this stuff later on in his posts? 

Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 2:59 am
The Simian Doppleganger is upset because the arawak nation is hiding the truth from the cowboys
DirtyHand knows
Simian knows
The Simian stated for 2 days, the key would come from the hague the next day
Shango said no two times
Is Simian a DirtyHand too
Has the Simian played with the lions
in the houses of ill-repute and poison notes
where the innocent flies are lured?

Has the Simian, primate that he is, fed with the other animals?
Back ye fetid mongrel, as the 46th are you; delegate of the 7th level of inferno,
not birthed, but spewed from the dark chasm of a nightmare!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on August 03, 2008, 04:09:50 PM
Lala's:

see a post from a short time ago-re: DH/poison house

he's the link between the pimps and 'Babalu's officials' and he 'holds the real key'




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 03, 2008, 04:13:32 PM
DirtyHand is not an arawak

The arawaks hold the singing cards
arawaks can't let babylonian card (DirtyHand=babylonian) sing
because hand holding it dirty too (polis=dirty hand)
(DirtyHand not polis)

Arawaks often play in the small houses of babylon with offspring of the elders (hands dirty)

Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 12:23 am
Follow the notes ($)
to the poison house
where the children of the babylonians (pimps)
and the arawak nation (Babalu's officials corps)
meet, under cover of delusion.
In the maze
the lions which play
shall be found.
The gamblers also took note.
Tell the cowboys!

DirtyHand is the link (between pimps and Babalu's official corps)
He holds the real key (to the poison house)

Let's look at some of the theories of who is Dirty Hand:

van der Straten...yep he fits, he definitely left the island as was told. He was accused of calling Paulus on a regular basis in the early days.

Ben Vocking...he fits also, he was there at the house when they came to search it, he lived there at some point. He walked with Paulus.

Frans Duetekom...Caps insists that this is the guy that is dirty hand. He made a compelling argument.  My only caveat is that those he was talking to about dirty hand could not have been any posters outside of the Aruban culture because they would not know about this guy.  Would Shango being in Florida know this too? 

Rudy Croes...he would fit also and Tylergal believed it to him. She made a compelling argument also.  I think Rudy fits other characters in Shango, but that is just me.

There are others that would fit also, depending on the context of the post. Colombo feel free to jump in here and give us your ideas about who dirty hand is also.  I want to hear them all.


you mention all arawaks......see first sentence

I suppose that would depend on your definition of Arawak.  Mine must be different from yours.  I do not see Van Der Straaten as an Arawak.  I see him as a Babylonian.  Someone placed in that position to protect the Dutch on the island.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 03, 2008, 04:14:28 PM

Oh you are getting to the touchy part here...not very many of us can agree on who Dirty Hand is.  Without some agreement there can be no movement forward.  That has been one of the stumbling blocks to this whole thing.  If you go with Straten, then so many other theories are trampled on and that is when the war starts....keep talking. We may need to take each view one at a time and see what fits with Dirty Hand. Remember, Shango tells us that Dirty Hand was discovered.  Every time  I mention that fact it's glossed over for some reason.

Yes, I know.  But here is are the posts that clinch it for me:

Shango on June 27th, 2005 12:28 pm
Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon with his
12:30 AM posting

Shango on June 27th, 2005 4:00 am
Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon with his 12:30 posting

Shango on June 27th, 2005 12:12 pm
Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon with his
12:30 AM posting
If the cowboys do not find the loot today, it will not be found

Shango on June 27th, 2005 12:26 pm
Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon with his
12:30 AM posting
Simian your Doppleganger is with us

Shango on June 27th, 2005 12:28 pm
Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon with his
12:30 AM posting

Shango on June 27th, 2005 9:44 pm
Babalu opened a window looking into babylon on his 12:31 A.M. Post
DirtyHand is alive

Shango on June 27th, 2005 9:48 pm
Babalu knew who dirty hand was at half past 12

drax on June 27th, 2005 10:57 pm
DirtyHand has walked through the maze:…is DirtyHand Poppa VDS?

Shango on June 27th, 2005 11:01 pm
The Drax asks a question for which he already provided an answer.

Shango on June 27th, 2005 11:04 pm
Babalu opened a window looking onto Babylon with his 12:30 A.M. post

drax on June 27th, 2005 11:08 pm
Shango says: The Drax asks a question for which he already provided an answer.
I don’t understand, Shango.

Babalú on June 27th, 2005 11:10 pm
He’s talking about Dirty Hands identity, please refer to my post of yesterday 12:30 AM. He is JVDS, and not Joran.

Lucy on June 27th, 2005 10:56 pm
Someone said last night that Dirty Hand was somebody in the police.

Shango on June 27th, 2005 11:13 pm
Lucy spoke at 10:56

watcher on June 30th, 2005 2:29 am
I think Subdude is on the right track about the media putting pressure on WHY the polis chief is leaving.


Shango on June 30th, 2005 2:31 am
Watcher opened a window looking onto babylon at 2:29.
He holds the key to the ONLY door which opens the door to the lions den


I agree.  But Shango never comes out and says "Yes, Dirty Hand is Straten."  He only says that Babalu opened a window.  That could easily mean "You are getting warmer Babalu."   There are too many others that will dispute the fact that Babalu was merely trying to guess what Shango meant.  If Babalu had indeed told us who Dirty Hand was, why did Shango later say:

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:58 pm
Arawaks want to make cowboys happy
Babylonians want to maintain integrity of Great House
Gods of the cowboys know there was a game in the great house,
and so DirtyHand was discovered
But the sacrifice will be offered before dirty hand sings
He will return to babylon, broken but anonymous 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 03, 2008, 04:16:34 PM
Lala's:

see a post from a short time ago-re: DH/poison house

he's the link between the pimps and 'Babalu's officials' and he 'holds the real key'




You have lost me again. LOL  More details...simple language I am dumb. Thanks.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 03, 2008, 04:17:54 PM

Oh you are getting to the touchy part here...not very many of us can agree on who Dirty Hand is.  Without some agreement there can be no movement forward.  That has been one of the stumbling blocks to this whole thing.  If you go with Straten, then so many other theories are trampled on and that is when the war starts....keep talking. We may need to take each view one at a time and see what fits with Dirty Hand. Remember, Shango tells us that Dirty Hand was discovered.  Every time  I mention that fact it's glossed over for some reason.

Yes, I know.  But here is are the posts that clinch it for me:

Shango on June 27th, 2005 12:28 pm
Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon with his
12:30 AM posting

Shango on June 27th, 2005 4:00 am
Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon with his 12:30 posting

Shango on June 27th, 2005 12:12 pm
Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon with his
12:30 AM posting
If the cowboys do not find the loot today, it will not be found

Shango on June 27th, 2005 12:26 pm
Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon with his
12:30 AM posting
Simian your Doppleganger is with us

Shango on June 27th, 2005 12:28 pm
Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon with his
12:30 AM posting

Shango on June 27th, 2005 9:44 pm
Babalu opened a window looking into babylon on his 12:31 A.M. Post
DirtyHand is alive

Shango on June 27th, 2005 9:48 pm
Babalu knew who dirty hand was at half past 12

drax on June 27th, 2005 10:57 pm
DirtyHand has walked through the maze:…is DirtyHand Poppa VDS?

Shango on June 27th, 2005 11:01 pm
The Drax asks a question for which he already provided an answer.

Shango on June 27th, 2005 11:04 pm
Babalu opened a window looking onto Babylon with his 12:30 A.M. post

drax on June 27th, 2005 11:08 pm
Shango says: The Drax asks a question for which he already provided an answer.
I don’t understand, Shango.

Babalú on June 27th, 2005 11:10 pm
He’s talking about Dirty Hands identity, please refer to my post of yesterday 12:30 AM. He is JVDS, and not Joran.

Lucy on June 27th, 2005 10:56 pm
Someone said last night that Dirty Hand was somebody in the police.

Shango on June 27th, 2005 11:13 pm
Lucy spoke at 10:56

watcher on June 30th, 2005 2:29 am
I think Subdude is on the right track about the media putting pressure on WHY the polis chief is leaving.


Shango on June 30th, 2005 2:31 am
Watcher opened a window looking onto babylon at 2:29.
He holds the key to the ONLY door which opens the door to the lions den


I agree.  But Shango never comes out and says "Yes, Dirty Hand is Straten."  He only says that Babalu opened a window.  That could easily mean "You are getting warmer Babalu."   There are too many others that will dispute the fact that Babalu was merely trying to guess what Shango meant.  If Babalu had indeed told us who Dirty Hand was, why did Shango later say:

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:58 pm
Arawaks want to make cowboys happy
Babylonians want to maintain integrity of Great House
Gods of the cowboys know there was a game in the great house,
and so DirtyHand was discovered
But the sacrifice will be offered before dirty hand sings
He will return to babylon, broken but anonymous 


I see the confirmation here:

Shango on June 27th, 2005 11:01 pm
The Drax asks a question for which he already provided an answer.

Shango on June 27th, 2005 11:04 pm
Babalu opened a window looking onto Babylon with his 12:30 A.M. post



And here:

watcher on June 30th, 2005 2:29 am
I think Subdude is on the right track about the media putting pressure on WHY the polis chief is leaving.


Shango on June 30th, 2005 2:31 am
Watcher opened a window looking onto babylon at 2:29.
He holds the key to the ONLY door which opens the door to the lions den


Who else was reported to be leaving at this critical point in the investigation?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 03, 2008, 04:19:39 PM
It also depends on one's definition of Babylonian.

Babylonian=Dutch
Babylonian=Casino owners

Arawaks=ALE
Arawaks=Reporters (per Caps)
Arawaks=Arubans

It can get confusing.   ::MonkeyConfused::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on August 03, 2008, 04:21:35 PM
If Simian makes his living on tourism in Aruba, then he could be as credible, but more likely to withold any details which would be damaging.......i.e. DirtyHand.......so, in the context posted earlier by somebody else:

quote:   "Shango=FBI playing cat and mouse with Mansur"

the scenerio makes alot of sense

Don’t want to interrupt the great discussions but I wanted to bring these posts forward mainly in regard to the FBI. Both Paulus and Joran allude to the FBI in their PVs.

Great to see you Truthseeker…always enjoyed your posts…FWIW…I agree with van der Straten. I also believe it he is Joran’s godfather. That came from Fox and Fox got a lot of things right early in this case.

Carry on….


http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2733.340

Reply #351 on: March 28, 2008, 07:52:06 PM » JE
   
 Anyone have any ideas what the third act maybe?

59.   Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx

The elder agreed to speak, but he he loves the boy too much. The knows the passages of the palace too well. So the Babylonians must make sure the check mate is iron-clad.Something rotten from The Hague will have to make the third act play out.Posted Jun 26, 10:52 PM | Edit Comment | Delete Comment | Edit Post “Natalee Holloway; Breaking Aruba News .... Croes Released ... Now Paul Van der Sloot” | View Post

This is mentioned in both simians and merians posts at a time DNA evidence is being examined or results of DNA investigation are comming in.

In Siminans post he is refering to (I believe) Dna results coming back from the hague (from the june 15th sloot house search.

In Merians post:

Merian Ernest Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2005 2:53 pm Post subject: Phidippides

The question is if there will be end to the journey? Her fate is no worse than the secret contained in Richard Drew marvel.Third acts have no upside.

Also DNA results of the duct tape and the blond hairs (Richard Drew was a guy working for the 3M company and he invented adhesive tape)

Also: any ideas who the "her" as in "her fate is no worse than the secret .... etc" is? This is a weird statement as the DNA results could not have been known to anyone at that date.

From SM frontpage july 21:

For the Duct tape and possibly other evidence to reach as fast as possible to the State Laboratory, … it was decided that the sealed evidence will be transported by the Head Prosecutor Mrs. Karin Jansen who boarded the flight to the Netherlands

Third act suggests a play (could be Hamlet "something rotten in the state of Denmark" or maybe just a conviction?)TIA


Reply #352 on: March 28, 2008, 08:58:14 PM » Buckeye

Mum had mentioned something about duct tape and a witness (as told in Juron's book).  I posted a reply on pg. 13 of the Lively.  Iwill repost but it might get screwed up.  This is from a June 20. 2005 post on the amigoe forum??? Same time frame

Re: Natalee Case Discussion #745 3/25
« Reply #241 on: Today at 04:33:09 PM » 

Quote from: MumInOhio on Today at 09:45:35 AM
Rob...you reminded me of a post I made in the Shango thread yesterday. Do you recall anything about this? The protected witness, I mean?...TIA

Reply #158 on: March 26, 2008, 08:42:52 AM » Quote  

Find something new every time I read that book translation...

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1097.0

P332 Also, an FBI "protected witness", an American called "Mr X", meets Deepak in July 2005 in the Internet café wehre Deepak works. Deepak tells X: “I see what’s going on and I know much more. I’m certain that Natalee is no longer on the island.” He also says something that contradicts that: “When they find the duct-tape with Natalee’s hair on it, then I’ll go to jail", which is strange because they did find hair with duct tape but it wasn't Natalee's
Mum

I don't remember seeing that, in the book.  I did save a post from an old amigoe.com/forum.  Now I wonder if the duct tape did have evidence that got put in a "hidey hole".   

Posted by Carlton June 20, 2005

Beste mensen,

Van betrouwbare bronnen heb ik begrepen dat er op die tape de volgende dingen te vinden waren:

3 blonde haren (volgens DNA van Holloway)
7 zwarte haren(sluik haar, 2 verschillende eigenaren, eogenaren onbekend)
2 blonde haren (onbekend)
6 spermacellen (vooralsnog onbekend)
restanten van wat "lichaamsvocht" zou zijn geweest (bevestigd Holloway)
1 fragment roest (waarschijnlijk van een anker)
1 stukje vis
1 onderlegger met de text: "Ca....s & .har...s"
wat zand

Op basis hiervan denkt de politie de verdwijning spoedig te kunnen oplossen.

Google translation:

Dear people,

From reliable sources, I understand that in this tape the following things to be found were:

3 blonde hair (according DNA of Holloway)
7 black hair (sluik hair, 2 different owners, eogenaren unknown)
2 blonde hair (unknown)
6 sperm (currently unknown)
Remnants of what "body fluid" would have been (confirmed Holloway)
1 fragment rust (probably an anchor)
1 piece of fish
1 onderlegger with the text: "Ca .... s &. Har ... s"
What sand

On this basis the police believe the disappearance soon to be resolved.
http://www.amigoe.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=002050;p=29






Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 03, 2008, 04:23:08 PM

I agree.  But Shango never comes out and says "Yes, Dirty Hand is Straten."  He only says that Babalu opened a window.  That could easily mean "You are getting warmer Babalu."   There are too many others that will dispute the fact that Babalu was merely trying to guess what Shango meant.  If Babalu had indeed told us who Dirty Hand was, why did Shango later say:

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:58 pm
Arawaks want to make cowboys happy
Babylonians want to maintain integrity of Great House
Gods of the cowboys know there was a game in the great house,
and so DirtyHand was discovered
But the sacrifice will be offered before dirty hand sings
He will return to babylon, broken but anonymous 


I believe Dirty Hand was discovered by The Hague and maybe the FBI.  Not by ALE because they already knew what his role was.  That is why the integrity of the Great House must be maintained now.  This would refelct on them now, especially if the Govenor General (appointed by the Quessn) had been looking the other way all this time.  They are letting him go right in the middle of the investigation.  Dirty Hand covered for all the Dutch on Aruba.  That was part of his 'job'.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 03, 2008, 04:27:37 PM
Truth
There were several that left at a critical time.  We were just discussing that a few weeks ago in the main Natalee thread.  Mum will have those answers when she checks in.  She is a gold mine of reference for those like me.

I think even minor players left also...such as the bartender and Guido.  I agree that the person that Shango is talking about would have to be Straten.  He retired and went to wherever to continue his reign in law enforcement. There is just as much confirmation as there is contradiction here on this particular subject.  I won't argue with you, but there are many others that simply say it was not Straten.  It was Frans Deutekom.  I didn't know diddly about that guy until Caps arrived.  I think he said once that Deutekom was in the other car.  I know that there are many that are convinced that Ben Vocking fits this description because he left the island also. It is a matter of interpretation.  I will agree that Straten is confirmed by Shango for the time being.  Carry on, you are doing great.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 03, 2008, 04:33:40 PM

Don’t want to interrupt the great discussions but I wanted to bring these posts forward mainly in regard to the FBI. Both Paulus and Joran allude to the FBI in their PVs.

Great to see you Truthseeker…always enjoyed your posts…FWIW…I agree with van der Straten. I also believe it he is Joran’s godfather. That came from Fox and Fox got a lot of things right early in this case.

Carry on….


http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2733.340

Reply #351 on: March 28, 2008, 07:52:06 PM » JE
   
 Anyone have any ideas what the third act maybe?

59.   Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx

The elder agreed to speak, but he he loves the boy too much. The knows the passages of the palace too well. So the Babylonians must make sure the check mate is iron-clad.Something rotten from The Hague will have to make the third act play out.Posted Jun 26, 10:52 PM | Edit Comment | Delete Comment | Edit Post “Natalee Holloway; Breaking Aruba News .... Croes Released ... Now Paul Van der Sloot” | View Post





Thanks Mum.

The way I see this has to do with forming an overall opinion of Simian.  He made many references in his posts such as "lugubrious game" which refers to a painting by Dali and this painting used many sexual references to portray confusion.  Simian liked to present himself as "an educated individual".  So...with that in mind I liken his reference of the "third act" to have a slant toward the three steps (acts) of a magic act where a magician will make something disappear.  The third 'act' is to make the object reappear.  jmho.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 03, 2008, 04:38:25 PM
Truth
There were several that left at a critical time.  We were just discussing that a few weeks ago in the main Natalee thread.  Mum will have those answers when she checks in.  She is a gold mine of reference for those like me.

I think even minor players left also...such as the bartender and Guido.  I agree that the person that Shango is talking about would have to be Straten.  He retired and went to wherever to continue his reign in law enforcement. There is just as much confirmation as there is contradiction here on this particular subject.  I won't argue with you, but there are many others that simply say it was not Straten.  It was Frans Deutekom.  I didn't know diddly about that guy until Caps arrived.  I think he said once that Deutekom was in the other car.  I know that there are many that are convinced that Ben Vocking fits this description because he left the island also. It is a matter of interpretation.  I will agree that Straten is confirmed by Shango for the time being.  Carry on, you are doing great.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:42 pm
Arawaks hold singing card from babylon
There is also a trio. One Babylonian. 2 Shivas.
Arawaks can’t let babylonian Card sing because hand holding it dirty too.


Frans Deutekom???


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 03, 2008, 04:50:59 PM
Truth
There were several that left at a critical time.  We were just discussing that a few weeks ago in the main Natalee thread.  Mum will have those answers when she checks in.  She is a gold mine of reference for those like me.

I think even minor players left also...such as the bartender and Guido.  I agree that the person that Shango is talking about would have to be Straten.  He retired and went to wherever to continue his reign in law enforcement. There is just as much confirmation as there is contradiction here on this particular subject.  I won't argue with you, but there are many others that simply say it was not Straten.  It was Frans Deutekom.  I didn't know diddly about that guy until Caps arrived.  I think he said once that Deutekom was in the other car.  I know that there are many that are convinced that Ben Vocking fits this description because he left the island also. It is a matter of interpretation.  I will agree that Straten is confirmed by Shango for the time being.  Carry on, you are doing great.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:42 pm
Arawaks hold singing card from babylon
There is also a trio. One Babylonian. 2 Shivas.
Arawaks can’t let babylonian Card sing because hand holding it dirty too.


Frans Deutekom???

I am just relaying info...don't shoot the messenger. LOL



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on August 03, 2008, 04:54:37 PM
Truth
There were several that left at a critical time.  We were just discussing that a few weeks ago in the main Natalee thread.  Mum will have those answers when she checks in.  She is a gold mine of reference for those like me.

I think even minor players left also...such as the bartender and Guido.  I agree that the person that Shango is talking about would have to be Straten.  He retired and went to wherever to continue his reign in law enforcement. There is just as much confirmation as there is contradiction here on this particular subject.  I won't argue with you, but there are many others that simply say it was not Straten.  It was Frans Deutekom.  I didn't know diddly about that guy until Caps arrived.  I think he said once that Deutekom was in the other car.  I know that there are many that are convinced that Ben Vocking fits this description because he left the island also. It is a matter of interpretation.  I will agree that Straten is confirmed by Shango for the time being.  Carry on, you are doing great.

Sorry Lala's...sun got to me today and will need to read back on the discussions!....Will check on it tomorrow as I have to leave in a little while!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 03, 2008, 05:02:48 PM
Carrying on...

Simian does not yet respond to Shango.  Shango makes his next post:

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:14 pm
Simian, The Sumerians do not like the Babylonian intrusion.
The Babylonian card may be tossed from the table and crushed under Sumerian feet (or feat)….


No mention of Arawaks by either poster yet and I believe Shango uses Sumerians to refer to the native people on Aruba...basically the people that no longer have control of the island.  Simian has already used the term Babylonians.

Simian Says: June 25th, 2005 at 8:21 pm
The Simian knows the Babylonians. They need to plan the legal checkmate perfectly. They know
that the elder knows his way around the palace. All gates need to be shut.


Historically speaking the Babylonians conquered and ruled the Sumerians.  This is why I think the term Sumerians was used by Shango, but Simian never used that term at all.  Simian seemed to prefer the term Arawak as in the early indian tribes that settled on Aruba.  Either term would apply to those who were there first being overtaken, if you will, by another culture or group.

Around 1900 B.C. Semitic-speaking invaders from the Arabian Desert entered southern Mesopotamia and captured the city-state of Babylon. About 1790 B.C., led by their king, Hammurabi, they conquered the other city-states in the Tigris-Euphrates valley and formed the Babylonian Empire. The Babylonians adopted and built upon the prevailing Sumerian culture.

http://home.cfl.rr.com/crossland/AncientCivilizations/Middle_East_Civilizations/Babylonians/babylonians.html


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 03, 2008, 05:03:11 PM
Thanks Mum. I know you will find it all later.  I need to get off here for a bit too.  Keep going Truth, it has been a good day in here for a change.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 03, 2008, 05:04:16 PM
Truth
There were several that left at a critical time.  We were just discussing that a few weeks ago in the main Natalee thread.  Mum will have those answers when she checks in.  She is a gold mine of reference for those like me.

I think even minor players left also...such as the bartender and Guido.  I agree that the person that Shango is talking about would have to be Straten.  He retired and went to wherever to continue his reign in law enforcement. There is just as much confirmation as there is contradiction here on this particular subject.  I won't argue with you, but there are many others that simply say it was not Straten.  It was Frans Deutekom.  I didn't know diddly about that guy until Caps arrived.  I think he said once that Deutekom was in the other car.  I know that there are many that are convinced that Ben Vocking fits this description because he left the island also. It is a matter of interpretation.  I will agree that Straten is confirmed by Shango for the time being.  Carry on, you are doing great.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:42 pm
Arawaks hold singing card from babylon
There is also a trio. One Babylonian. 2 Shivas.
Arawaks can’t let babylonian Card sing because hand holding it dirty too.


Frans Deutekom???

I am just relaying info...don't shoot the messenger. LOL



haha.  Would never shoot the messenger.  I know it is a 'sensitive' topic and hope that no one gets too offended.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on August 03, 2008, 05:11:26 PM

Oh you are getting to the touchy part here...not very many of us can agree on who Dirty Hand is.  Without some agreement there can be no movement forward.  That has been one of the stumbling blocks to this whole thing.  If you go with Straten, then so many other theories are trampled on and that is when the war starts....keep talking. We may need to take each view one at a time and see what fits with Dirty Hand. Remember, Shango tells us that Dirty Hand was discovered.  Every time  I mention that fact it's glossed over for some reason.

Yes, I know.  But here is are the posts that clinch it for me:

Shango on June 27th, 2005 12:28 pm
Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon with his
12:30 AM posting

Shango on June 27th, 2005 4:00 am
Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon with his 12:30 posting

Shango on June 27th, 2005 12:12 pm
Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon with his
12:30 AM posting
If the cowboys do not find the loot today, it will not be found

Shango on June 27th, 2005 12:26 pm
Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon with his
12:30 AM posting
Simian your Doppleganger is with us

Shango on June 27th, 2005 12:28 pm
Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon with his
12:30 AM posting

Shango on June 27th, 2005 9:44 pm
Babalu opened a window looking into babylon on his 12:31 A.M. Post
DirtyHand is alive

Shango on June 27th, 2005 9:48 pm
Babalu knew who dirty hand was at half past 12

drax on June 27th, 2005 10:57 pm
DirtyHand has walked through the maze:…is DirtyHand Poppa VDS?

Shango on June 27th, 2005 11:01 pm
The Drax asks a question for which he already provided an answer.

Shango on June 27th, 2005 11:04 pm
Babalu opened a window looking onto Babylon with his 12:30 A.M. post

drax on June 27th, 2005 11:08 pm
Shango says: The Drax asks a question for which he already provided an answer.
I don’t understand, Shango.

Babalú on June 27th, 2005 11:10 pm
He’s talking about Dirty Hands identity, please refer to my post of yesterday 12:30 AM. He is JVDS, and not Joran.

Lucy on June 27th, 2005 10:56 pm
Someone said last night that Dirty Hand was somebody in the police.

Shango on June 27th, 2005 11:13 pm
Lucy spoke at 10:56

watcher on June 30th, 2005 2:29 am
I think Subdude is on the right track about the media putting pressure on WHY the polis chief is leaving.


Shango on June 30th, 2005 2:31 am
Watcher opened a window looking onto babylon at 2:29.
He holds the key to the ONLY door which opens the door to the lions den


I agree.  But Shango never comes out and says "Yes, Dirty Hand is Straten."  He only says that Babalu opened a window.  That could easily mean "You are getting warmer Babalu."   There are too many others that will dispute the fact that Babalu was merely trying to guess what Shango meant.  If Babalu had indeed told us who Dirty Hand was, why did Shango later say:

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:58 pm
Arawaks want to make cowboys happy
Babylonians want to maintain integrity of Great House
Gods of the cowboys know there was a game in the great house,
and so DirtyHand was discovered
But the sacrifice will be offered before dirty hand sings
He will return to babylon, broken but anonymous 



the game pg 4
http://www.ca11.uscourts.gov/opinions/ops/200214306.pdf
(by Gods of the Cowboys)

DirtyHand is link to polis-sacrifice needed to spare polis, teepees
Arawaks often go to play in the small houses of babylon with offspring of the elders

all in there: rules, polis, game, players, etc, etc


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 03, 2008, 05:12:09 PM
Shango has now made three posts directed at Simian, with no response.  His fourth post is a question:

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:18 pm
Simian, why was the key from the Babylons Palace not used to open the Sumerians Door ?
They have become famished and Eden is beckoning….


Simian has been posting about a package from the Hague.  Shango is baiting Simian because he seems to know that nothing will be revealed about evidence from the Hague.  He implies that this lack of information from the 'package' Simian tells everyone will come is now hurting the locals on Aruba.  I believe Shango uses Eden as a reference to the "Garden of Paradise"...One Happy Island.  This whole thing has been bad for the island and Simian is not helping matters.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on August 03, 2008, 05:13:24 PM
Truth
There were several that left at a critical time.  We were just discussing that a few weeks ago in the main Natalee thread.  Mum will have those answers when she checks in.  She is a gold mine of reference for those like me.

I think even minor players left also...such as the bartender and Guido.  I agree that the person that Shango is talking about would have to be Straten.  He retired and went to wherever to continue his reign in law enforcement. There is just as much confirmation as there is contradiction here on this particular subject.  I won't argue with you, but there are many others that simply say it was not Straten.  It was Frans Deutekom.  I didn't know diddly about that guy until Caps arrived.  I think he said once that Deutekom was in the other car.  I know that there are many that are convinced that Ben Vocking fits this description because he left the island also. It is a matter of interpretation.  I will agree that Straten is confirmed by Shango for the time being.  Carry on, you are doing great.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:42 pm
Arawaks hold singing card from babylon
There is also a trio. One Babylonian. 2 Shivas.
Arawaks can’t let babylonian Card sing because hand holding it dirty too.


Frans Deutekom???

I am just relaying info...don't shoot the messenger. LOL



haha.  Would never shoot the messenger.  I know it is a 'sensitive' topic and hope that no one gets too offended.


Arawaks often go to play in small houses of babylon with offspring of the elders
sacrifice needed to spare polis, teepees (marriages)
sacrifice will be made before DirtyHand sings



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on August 03, 2008, 05:19:01 PM
Arawaks often go to play in small houses of babylon with offspring of the elders=

dirty hand

Babalu's "official corps".......DirtyHand is link, has long reach.....to "long arm"


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 03, 2008, 05:19:09 PM
Shango has now made three posts directed at Simian, with no response.  His fourth post is a question:

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:18 pm
Simian, why was the key from the Babylons Palace not used to open the Sumerians Door ?
They have become famished and Eden is beckoning….


Simian has been posting about a package from the Hague.  Shango is baiting Simian because he seems to know that nothing will be revealed about evidence from the Hague.  He implies that this lack of information from the 'package' Simian tells everyone will come is now hurting the locals on Aruba.  I believe Shango uses Eden as a reference to the "Garden of Paradise"...One Happy Island.  This whole thing has been bad for the island and Simian is not helping matters.

Simian still has not taken the bait.  Shango keeps trying:

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:26 pm
Simian, his lordship did not bring the expected key
the door never existed
Eden is distant


Shango implies that there never was to be any information to be revealed from the Hague.  The return of "One Happy Island" was not about to happen. 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on August 03, 2008, 05:21:09 PM
Babalu knew who dirty hand was

DityHand????


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on August 03, 2008, 05:21:56 PM
DirtyHand=link between dirty hand and pimps


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 03, 2008, 05:31:13 PM
Simian begins to nibble:

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:27 pm
The cowboys have only so much gold.
The territory is rough.
There are many secrets, but the Arawaks are helping.
The palace is open to all, but the palace is a maze to most.


Simian now counters Sumerians with the term Arawaks and paints them in a good light.  They are helping the cowboys.  This is Simian at his most cryptic to date.  He mentions a palace and maze.  Now...does palace refer to The Hague?  Is The Hague really open to all?  I don't think it is even though it is the location of the "World Court" so to speak.  I think palace in this post refers to the court system of Aruba.  While the courts are available to all on Aruba, not everyone understands how the system works...especially foreigners.  This can be a disadvantage to the foreigners seeking justice using the confusing system (maze).

Shango tugs on the line a bit:

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:30 pm
Simian, his lordship did not bring the key for the Arawaks  So it will remain “cowboys and indians” The posse was too late


Shango is telling Simian that he was either dead wrong or he has been leading people on with his claim that evidence from The Hague will answer many questions.  Shango all but implies that Arawaks are the indians because Simian implies that the Arawaks are helping the cowboys.  But Shango seems to think it is too late.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 03, 2008, 05:39:56 PM
Simian backs away a bit.  His next post tries to separate the Babylonians from the judicial process.

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:31 pm
The Babylonians don’t hold the hammer nor the block.
They are running out of options.


Simian seems to imply that the Babylonians (which I believe refers to those who seem to run things on the island...the Dutch and the political party leaders along with the casino owners) cannot control the judicial system...which we all know is not true.  In fact, the Babylonians actully had all the options from the very beginning.  They did influence the judges as we all saw in the following months.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 03, 2008, 05:55:41 PM
Afer this Simian takes a break from posting for about half an hour.  He comes back with this post:

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:04 pm
The wire has been shaken. The bird has left.


While he was "away" Shango continued:

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:33 pm
Simian, His Lordship did not bring the key found in the car, it did not exist
The arawaks can’t open the door Hope lies with the cowbous,
but the posse was too late Eden is still distant

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:37 pm
Why don’t the Arawaks to play the Babylonian Card ?
The posse is far from the fort and the loot is gone
The indians can’t count on the cowboys
The arawaks need to audition the singing card

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:40 pm
The key does not exist
The Arawaks knew Babylonian involvement would prove futile
That is why the cowboys left the fort and a searching with the indians

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:43 pm
The fallen judge agreed to sing because he can hum any tune
He needs to sing for his son, or see the end of his babylonian offspring

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:45 pm
Shango is not limited to any location, orixas are his messengers

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:49 pm
Elder needs to sing to preserve his lineage
To agree to remain silent is to agree not to hum any tune
The Arawaks are desperate, they fear for the tribe, they do not want war with the cowboys
But the loot remains hidden
And the Arawaks keep their singing card hidden as well
The fallen judge and the singing card are of the same hand, but it is dangerous for the Arawaks to play it, because everyone would hear, including the cowboys

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:57 pm
The Arawaks may not need to play the singing card
The cowboys won’t hear the music and the teepees will be safe
Wampum is needed as the doors closed on Eden


Did Shango shake the wire?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 03, 2008, 06:25:38 PM
While Shango is composing this post:

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:12 pm
Cowboys must behave in Indian territory
The arawaks need pemmican, they have been without wampum, 1 Moon
The Arawaks keep the singing card
One singing Babylonian and two Hindu chanters are enough
His lordships presence guarantees a trio
The key to edens door did not exist
The refrain has already begun


Simian provides this defense of the system:

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:10 pm
The system is built so that innocent are always protected. One shred of doubt is enough to thrown a case out.

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:11 pm
The system is built so that the innocent are always protected. One shred of doubt is enough to thrown a case out.



Shango responds with:

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:14 pm
Simian your Dopple has resumed position
Bird on the wire


No one has posted as Simian during this time.  We have often thought Shango's reference to Dopple (short for doppleganger) meant someone else posting as Simian.  But...the actual definition is a ghostly double or counterpart of a living person.  I believe Shango was referring to whoever it was that was telling Simian what to say.

Simian does not post again until 9:27 pm.  For over five hours Shango holds the attention of audience for the early evening hours.  Could Simian be in a "strategy session" during this time?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 03, 2008, 08:01:41 PM
Arawaks often go to play in small houses of babylon with offspring of the elders=

dirty hand

Babalu's "official corps".......DirtyHand is link, has long reach.....to "long arm"

I understand now.  Now, how would Babalu, who is not in Aruba, know about this? 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 03, 2008, 08:11:46 PM
Research on Simian/Merian/Mono/Baboon's identity.  Thought there might be some that don't know this yet.

Rob

Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #3
« Reply #486 on: April 21, 2008, 03:28:16 PM »
   
Quote from: Lala'sMom on April 21, 2008, 03:25:17 PM
Quote from: Rob on April 21, 2008, 03:22:21 PM
omg - this could be me and Sandy. We were there on that date and that was our 9th trip....

Merian Ernest Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 3:29 pm Post subject: Be fair...
Spoke a to a confessed right-wing couple in Aruba. It was their ninth visit. They have no problem with the way the case has been handled and understand that as long as there is no proof you cannot hold somebody responsible.

Well, did anyone look like AG or Clyde? LOL

I saw Rufo Solongier's son the night before. 



http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2787.480


The good stuff starts right after this post.  I can't do a screen capture or I would bring VMS response here.  You will just have to go to that link and read it for yourself.  This is why I am certain about Simian.  It is several pages long and actually begins on page 23. 
   





Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 03, 2008, 08:30:37 PM
While Shango is composing this post:

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:12 pm
Cowboys must behave in Indian territory
The arawaks need pemmican, they have been without wampum, 1 Moon
The Arawaks keep the singing card
One singing Babylonian and two Hindu chanters are enough
His lordships presence guarantees a trio
The key to edens door did not exist
The refrain has already begun


Simian provides this defense of the system:

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:10 pm
The system is built so that innocent are always protected. One shred of doubt is enough to thrown a case out.

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:11 pm
The system is built so that the innocent are always protected. One shred of doubt is enough to thrown a case out.



Shango responds with:

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:14 pm
Simian your Dopple has resumed position
Bird on the wire


No one has posted as Simian during this time.  We have often thought Shango's reference to Dopple (short for doppleganger) meant someone else posting as Simian.  But...the actual definition is a ghostly double or counterpart of a living person.  I believe Shango was referring to whoever it was that was telling Simian what to say.

Simian does not post again until 9:27 pm.  For over five hours Shango holds the attention of audience for the early evening hours.  Could Simian be in a "strategy session" during this time?

I may not manage to effectively get my point across so bear with me here. This conversation was not exclusively between Shango and Simian, IMO.  When read in total context to the other posters, I get the impression that Simian was trying to out comment or one up Shango among the FP posters.  I know that is something I harp on all the time...context.  But to me it's important.  Let me see if I can explain this better.

During this FP posting session Shango is talking about the money and tourism business. What is going to be lost because of this mess all the while the other posters are talking about Paulus being released and who and how long they hold suspects. I get the feeling that Simian is speaking to another poster and not intended toward Shango at all.

#  edie on June 26th, 2005 4:01 pm

Fox news is talking about it. They said they have to wait until 8 tonight if they will hold papa or not


# Kristin-in-SC on June 26th, 2005 4:02 pm

There really was not enough time to dump her far enough out in the ocean if the timelines all play out as being reported so far.


# Simian on June 26th, 2005 4:04 pm

The wire has been shaken. The bird has left.


# Anne on June 26th, 2005 4:05 pm

So the cowboys in anger would storm the stage as soon as the song began, and the audience would be trampled unfairly? Will the music resume when the cowboy’s exit or does it depend on arrival of mutually agreeable wampum?


# Kristin-in-SC on June 26th, 2005 4:06 pm

This code is getting too weird.


# max on June 26th, 2005 4:06 pm

So now they say they will decide by 8 tonight whether or not to release paulus. This explains the ploy of giving up his right to testify against his son. I am still thinking he is guilty for sure. I dont know if I can ever shake that . It would certainly be hard to get a jury. But they dont use juries. Only one man decides the whole enchilada. I suspect they will find it hard to justify holding sr vds now. I dont like the way this is playing out. But if he is innocent then what? Hope they will find Natalee.


# kristin on June 26th, 2005 4:07 pm

i agree kristin, it’s not helpful, more like frustrating. goodbye.


# edie on June 26th, 2005 4:08 pm

I just hate to see them get off.
[/b]

# Simian on June 26th, 2005 4:10 pm

The system is built so that innocent are always protected. One shred of doubt is enough to thrown a case out.



# Simian on June 26th, 2005 4:11 pm

The system is built so that the innocent are always protected. One shred of doubt is enough to thrown a case out.

# edie on June 26th, 2005 4:12 pm

I don’t believe at all that the vds duo are innocent
[/b]


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 03, 2008, 08:40:36 PM
I know that conversation was not exclusively between Shango and Simian.  Simian was communicating with other posters and ignoring Shango.  Shango, on the other hand, was communicating with Simian only at this point.  He was trying to "draw him in".  I find that more interesting that just coming straight out and saying to everyone that Simian was wrong about The Hague and telling everyone on the site that Simian was a fraud..  He is addressing his posts to Simian...Simian wants no part of a conversation with Shango.  He communicates with others on the site...but not Shango.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 03, 2008, 08:46:09 PM
I know where you are coming from, Lala's.  And I agree.  Why would Simian blatantly ignore such direct confrontation from Shango?  He was quick to respond to others who disagreed, but not Shango.  My theory is that  Shango was "getting it right" and Simian was trying to get someone to "ping" him to find out who he was.  I'm not sure Simian could ping, but I think he was concerned about Shango.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on August 03, 2008, 09:09:00 PM
Arawaks often go to play in small houses of babylon with offspring of the elders=

dirty hand

Babalu's "official corps".......DirtyHand is link, has long reach.....to "long arm"

I understand now.  Now, how would Babalu, who is not in Aruba, know about this? 



he didn't - he was speculating based on Shango's posts......and got close


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 03, 2008, 09:09:26 PM
I know where you are coming from, Lala's.  And I agree.  Why would Simian blatantly ignore such direct confrontation from Shango?  He was quick to respond to others who disagreed, but not Shango.  My theory is that  Shango was "getting it right" and Simian was trying to get someone to "ping" him to find out who he was.  I'm not sure Simian could ping, but I think he was concerned about Shango.

I don't think Simian cared.  I think he already knew who Shango was. 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 03, 2008, 09:10:24 PM
Arawaks often go to play in small houses of babylon with offspring of the elders=

dirty hand

Babalu's "official corps".......DirtyHand is link, has long reach.....to "long arm"

I understand now.  Now, how would Babalu, who is not in Aruba, know about this? 



he didn't - he was speculating based on Shango's posts......and got close

Got "close" or actually got it "right"? 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on August 03, 2008, 09:11:04 PM
Babalú Says: June 27th, 2005 at 12:30 am
Concerned: No, I guess he is head of some local official corps. He is the guy that knows everything and that has been in the house of Babylonians NOT seeking pleasure for himself, so Shango says. So maybe he went to search for Natalee and he is the chief of Polis.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on August 03, 2008, 09:11:35 PM
Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 8:06 pm
Babalu opened a window looking into Babylon on his 12:31 A.M. post


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 03, 2008, 09:17:55 PM
I know where you are coming from, Lala's.  And I agree.  Why would Simian blatantly ignore such direct confrontation from Shango?  He was quick to respond to others who disagreed, but not Shango.  My theory is that  Shango was "getting it right" and Simian was trying to get someone to "ping" him to find out who he was.  I'm not sure Simian could ping, but I think he was concerned about Shango.

I don't think Simian cared.  I think he already knew who Shango was. 

Maybe.  One thing for sure...he cared later on when the two di get into a verbal sparing match.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on August 03, 2008, 09:18:27 PM
Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 9:48 pm
Babalu knew who dirty hand was at half past 12 (note: dirty hand)

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:42 pm
Arawaks hold singing card from babylon
There is also a trio. One Babylonian. 2 Shivas.
Arawaks can’t let babylonian Card (DirtyHand) sing because hand holding it dirty too.
Many teepees fall. No Wampum.

Shango Says:June 26th, 2005 at 9:19 pm
DirtyHand is not an Arawak

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:22 pm
The babylonians knew it was dangerous to trade among the arawaks

Babalú Says: June 27th, 2005 at 12:30 am
Concerned: No, I guess he is head of some local official corps. He is the guy that knows everything and that has been in the house of Babylonians NOT seeking pleasure for himself, so Shango says. So maybe he went to search for (see) Natalee and he is the chief of Polis.


Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:01 pm
Arawaks often go to play ("the game") in small houses of Babylon with the offspring of the Elders

DirtyHand is the link
He holds the real key


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on August 03, 2008, 09:28:43 PM
was DirtyHand held:

he will go back to babylon (from?), broken but anonymous

he walked with the fallen elder (6/26?)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on August 03, 2008, 09:40:07 PM
Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 4:50 pm
Some people on the other side of the pond know more than what they are saying. There testimony, there’s security footage, there are witnesses.

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:45 pm
Windows looking onto Babylon are being opened by the ThreadSurfers

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:29 pm
Some windows overlooking Babylon have been opened


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 03, 2008, 09:40:30 PM
Yes, it was a battle of egos for sure.  Simian was outmatched by Shango, though.  Simian's sources fizzled after that and he went back to his guitar playing.  I think he was more afraid of his relatives than Shango. Can't say I blame him either.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 03, 2008, 09:47:00 PM
Yes, it was a battle of egos for sure.  Simian was outmatched by Shango, though.  Simian's sources fizzled after that and he went back to his guitar playing.  I think he was more afraid of his relatives than Shango. Can't say I blame him either.

Maybe they both stopped posting because they knew the cover-up was complete and Natalee would never be found????


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 03, 2008, 09:57:45 PM
Yes, it was a battle of egos for sure.  Simian was outmatched by Shango, though.  Simian's sources fizzled after that and he went back to his guitar playing.  I think he was more afraid of his relatives than Shango. Can't say I blame him either.

Maybe they both stopped posting because they knew the cover-up was complete and Natalee would never be found????

Possibly.  Simian stopped posting as Simian and began his Merian/Mono/Baboon stage.  I think he just got tired of it all, because no one was listening to him and he quit OR he was told to knock it off because he was working with some of these people and it was detrimental to his own cousin's future.

Shango probably morphed into another poster OR went back to his education or work.  Shango and Simian both led us away from the Klapoes and also Joran.  Both wanted us to see it was someone else that was responsible for Natalee's disappearance.   Shango blamed the workings of the "game" for it and Simian blamed the 5th suspect.  The only game I can figure out was the one Shango and Simian and Checkme and Shockthemonkey were playing with the FP posters.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 03, 2008, 10:02:33 PM
You may be right about both of them playing a game with us.  What is intriguing to me is that they were angry with each other.  If both had the same objective, do you think it was really about egos?  Or, was Shango a little more open about the political and sociological issues on Aruba than Simian was.  If Simian was just a musician posting what he was told to post, what was Shango's motive??


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 03, 2008, 10:27:19 PM
You may be right about both of them playing a game with us.  What is intriguing to me is that they were angry with each other.  If both had the same objective, do you think it was really about egos?  Or, was Shango a little more open about the political and sociological issues on Aruba than Simian was.  If Simian was just a musician posting what he was told to post, what was Shango's motive??

I think Simian began posting because of all the attention he got from the posters that were here in the USA craving any tidbit of info from Aruba.  He was related to one of the many people questioned and he also was hearing talk from Rufo at the time.  He was clearly getting info and I think Checkme was wondering how he got his info.  Checkme was about as accurate as Simian was in his information too.  Everyone fell over themselves to speak to Checkme and I think Simian was jealous. Simian had a little knowledge that proved to be true. 

Shango saw this and knew who Simian was.  Shango was more into telling the story of how this mess would affect tourism and the economy on Aruba.  Shango knew that and he knew how the "game" worked.  High rollers talking advantage of young women and the like.  Shango tells us what the ugly side of Aruba is like.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 03, 2008, 10:51:02 PM
Gosh! I have been here all day.  This has been a good day of conversation and speculation in here.  Keep it going.  I have revisited all my old thoughts and theories again.  Ahhhh!  I felt really good.  See you guys later.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on August 04, 2008, 08:57:11 AM
While Shango is composing this post:

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:12 pm
Cowboys must behave in Indian territory
The arawaks need pemmican, they have been without wampum, 1 Moon
The Arawaks keep the singing card
One singing Babylonian and two Hindu chanters are enough
His lordships presence guarantees a trio
The key to edens door did not exist
The refrain has already begun


Simian provides this defense of the system:

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:10 pm
The system is built so that innocent are always protected. One shred of doubt is enough to thrown a case out.

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:11 pm
The system is built so that the innocent are always protected. One shred of doubt is enough to thrown a case out.



Shango responds with:

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:14 pm
Simian your Dopple has resumed position
Bird on the wire


No one has posted as Simian during this time.  We have often thought Shango's reference to Dopple (short for doppleganger) meant someone else posting as Simian.  But...the actual definition is a ghostly double or counterpart of a living person.  I believe Shango was referring to whoever it was that was telling Simian what to say.

Simian does not post again until 9:27 pm.  For over five hours Shango holds the attention of audience for the early evening hours.  Could Simian be in a "strategy session" during this time?


Truthseeker..what is your opinion of Simian’s double posts?…there are many…and he also posts similar posts under different topics. I have thought this was because he was being forwarded information, multi tasking and lost where he was at. Here he tried to post the word casino twice, it appears from reading the FP…this was in reference to his “boyfriend from earlier in the week…met at the same casino”. Was he trying to imply he knew more and could not say what he wanted? TIA

Reply #978 on: July 23, 2008, 07:36:03 AM » Mum   
 
More on Simian’s posts…From the FP on June 22nd. 2005

“Your post is awaiting moderation”
“Your post is awaiting moderation”
“Can’t say what I want”…

LOL…So intelligent he needed another poster to point out that he couldn’t post the word “casino”… 

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2886.msg401255#msg401255


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on August 04, 2008, 09:06:38 AM


Bringing these forward regarding van der Straten, Jossy and the AVP….

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2886.msg401855#msg401855

Reply #1007 on: July 26, 2008, 03:15:49 PM »   
 


subdude on June 30th, 2005 10:59 pm
Hope: It is the Polis Chief retiring unless asked to stay on, per Checkme.
Checkme: Who asks Chief to stay on? Prime Minister? Minister of Justice?

Checkme on June 30th, 2005 11:01 pm
Dude, if they ask him. But since he is of the wrong color and was an appointee of the previous (different) party he is gone. With elections coming soon, they want their guys in asap.
Checkme on June 30th, 2005 11:02 pm
but min of justice would have to ask.

Checkme on June 30th, 2005 11:05 pm
Hope you are absolutely correct. But on TV he was mentioning his pension… So I guess his contrac t was up to his pension age. But I will double check this tomorrow. The only difference this factor makes is that now this case will become an even larger political game. Bad for the investigation, exactly the same pattern as in many things here…

Checkme on June 30th, 2005 11:10 pm
new girl, the only way the Dutch benefit is keeping the Arubans happy in their own land. They would emigrate by the thousands to Holland in one month if things go sour here. But the true beneficiaries here are the American travel corporations/hotels here, none of which are owned by Arubans. Only the secondary industry are for Arubans. The major political players are of course backed by some families here, who have total control over what goes. Small island, so thi is quicly apparent. it happens all over the world but here it’s just very apparent.

Checkme on June 30th, 2005 11:12 pm
dude, yeah, PM is doing a good job, he can stay. his group is not perfect of course, but at least they are not ripping off the islanders so criminally as the previous regime.

Lucy on June 30th, 2005 11:15 pm
Subdude
But many Arubans have Babylonian last names and have been in the island for over 300 years, so they don’t sound Babylonian to me. He may be a van der Straaten whose great, great great, great grand papa arrived when the Dutch acquired the island from the Spanish.

Yliana on June 30th, 2005 11:16 pm
subdude - the police commissioner is Dutch. He’s been here in Aruba for almost 10 yrs I think.

From Silverfox…page 2 of this thread…

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2886.20


Remember, the current economic situation in Aruba effects his pocketbook too...

Politically his hands may be tied because he still lacks the clout in their parliament to protect his interests if hell is unleashed in the form of public disclosure of all the corruption and cover-up.  If you are an insider like Shango aludes to be you might feel that the 4th estate really does have "Dirty Hands".

The population of Aruba and island size is way to small ... Everyone knows everyone else and has something on everyone else -- but few are in the position to really report the truth to the masses and the world...

Yes, if Jossy were to sing Aruba would be shut down...IMHO

Quote
The Interbank is owned by the Mansur Family. If anybody owns 60 per cent of the island, it is this powerful family.

Jossy Mansur is the owner and chief editor of the biggest newspaper on the island, "Diario". ""When I read an article in Diario, I know what will be the next action of the government","says Hendrik Croes, adding that the Mansurs create a climate of fear and intimidation on Aruba. Their newspapers force others off the market. Furthermore, ""their annual income is bigger than the yearly budget of the government.

Quote
In the way of background, on October 5, 2005, Jossy Mansur, the editor of the Diario newspaper, opined that the racial problems in investigation of missing Alabama teen, Natalee Holloway, were between the Dutch and the Arubans. See 1 -- "The principal suspect is Dutch, the lead investigator was Dutch, the prosecutor is Dutch and the five judges involved are Dutch. If you think about it, an attempted boycott against Aruba is unjust, because it is misdirected and won't achieve the desired results."

Jossy Mansur is considered the godfather of the Arubanese Volks Partij (AVP).

Quote
Update [hat tip - George( comments below)] : For confirmation that the Mansur clan has dirty hands in drug trafficking, money laundering and worse, look at their connections to terrorism, such as with Hezbollah:

    (...) According to El Espectador, Mohamed Ali Farhad has been linked to a money laundering investigation that involved the Aruba-based Mansur clan of Eric and Alexander Mansur, who controlled cigarette smuggling in the 1990s through the Mansur Free Zone Trading Company N.V., with its main offices in the Netherlands Antilles. 120 The Mansurs inherited a smuggling and drug trafficking empire established in the islands by the Cosa Nostra's Cuntrera-Caruana clan, when it began to work in Venezuela with Cali Cartel organizations.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 04, 2008, 09:13:01 AM
While Shango is composing this post:

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:12 pm
Cowboys must behave in Indian territory
The arawaks need pemmican, they have been without wampum, 1 Moon
The Arawaks keep the singing card
One singing Babylonian and two Hindu chanters are enough
His lordships presence guarantees a trio
The key to edens door did not exist
The refrain has already begun


Simian provides this defense of the system:

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:10 pm
The system is built so that innocent are always protected. One shred of doubt is enough to thrown a case out.

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:11 pm
The system is built so that the innocent are always protected. One shred of doubt is enough to thrown a case out.



Shango responds with:

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:14 pm
Simian your Dopple has resumed position
Bird on the wire


No one has posted as Simian during this time.  We have often thought Shango's reference to Dopple (short for doppleganger) meant someone else posting as Simian.  But...the actual definition is a ghostly double or counterpart of a living person.  I believe Shango was referring to whoever it was that was telling Simian what to say.

Simian does not post again until 9:27 pm.  For over five hours Shango holds the attention of audience for the early evening hours.  Could Simian be in a "strategy session" during this time?


Truthseeker..what is your opinion of Simian’s double posts?…there are many…and he also posts similar posts under different topics. I have thought this was because he was being forwarded information, multi tasking and lost where he was at. Here he tried to post the word casino twice, it appears from reading the FP…this was in reference to his “boyfriend from earlier in the week…met at the same casino”. Was he trying to imply he knew more and could not say what he wanted? TIA

Reply #978 on: July 23, 2008, 07:36:03 AM » Mum   
 
More on Simian’s posts…From the FP on June 22nd. 2005

“Your post is awaiting moderation”
“Your post is awaiting moderation”
“Can’t say what I want”…

LOL…So intelligent he needed another poster to point out that he couldn’t post the word “casino”… 

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2886.msg401255#msg401255


I can't really tell if there was a specific motive behind the double posts.  Sometimes I think it may have been because of the slow reponse time of the sight and he may have thought his first one did not go through.  And, yes, sometimes I think he was viewing so many pages and posts that he would post a response on the wrong page and then go and post it on the page he originally meant to post on.  (hmmm....lol....I've done that before.  And no, I am not Simian.  lol)

Was casino a 'banned' word on the Front Page back then?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on August 04, 2008, 09:13:19 AM
Research on Simian/Merian/Mono/Baboon's identity.  Thought there might be some that don't know this yet.

Rob

Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #3
« Reply #486 on: April 21, 2008, 03:28:16 PM »
   
Quote from: Lala'sMom on April 21, 2008, 03:25:17 PM
Quote from: Rob on April 21, 2008, 03:22:21 PM
omg - this could be me and Sandy. We were there on that date and that was our 9th trip....

Merian Ernest Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 3:29 pm Post subject: Be fair...
Spoke a to a confessed right-wing couple in Aruba. It was their ninth visit. They have no problem with the way the case has been handled and understand that as long as there is no proof you cannot hold somebody responsible.

Well, did anyone look like AG or Clyde? LOL

I saw Rufo Solongier's son the night before. 



http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2787.480


The good stuff starts right after this post.  I can't do a screen capture or I would bring VMS response here.  You will just have to go to that link and read it for yourself.  This is why I am certain about Simian.  It is several pages long and actually begins on page 23. 
   






Thanks Lala's...somewhere in those pages Rob posts that Armin called Ronnie Bernadino "Uncle". not sure if he was a real uncle or not, but Ronnie was FBI trained...

Van der straten said he picked up 1 FBI agent at the airport on IIRC June 2nd...why do the Arubans and the van der Sloots insist that the FBI was on the case from Day 1??


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 04, 2008, 09:22:38 AM
Mum,

I remember those posts regarding the Mansurs.  Those posts do cause some raised eyebrows, especially when you dig into the possible motives of Shango.  Thanks for bringing them back out.  I don't think we can move forward too much without stuff like this being considered.

I have never crossed Jossy off of my list as a possible Shango author.  He is not the only one on my list, though.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 04, 2008, 11:41:10 AM
Mum,

I remember those posts regarding the Mansurs.  Those posts do cause some raised eyebrows, especially when you dig into the possible motives of Shango.  Thanks for bringing them back out.  I don't think we can move forward too much without stuff like this being considered.

I have never crossed Jossy off of my list as a possible Shango author.  He is not the only one on my list, though.

Such wise people we have on here.  Good decision.  Jossy is always on the list in one way or the other.  I still hold to the keep your enemies closer theory on most things concerning Aruba.  When it comes to political parties and Aruba those thoughts can never be far from the front. 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on August 04, 2008, 01:27:13 PM
While Shango is composing this post:

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:12 pm
Cowboys must behave in Indian territory
The arawaks need pemmican, they have been without wampum, 1 Moon
The Arawaks keep the singing card
One singing Babylonian and two Hindu chanters are enough
His lordships presence guarantees a trio
The key to edens door did not exist
The refrain has already begun


Simian provides this defense of the system:

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:10 pm
The system is built so that innocent are always protected. One shred of doubt is enough to thrown a case out.

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:11 pm
The system is built so that the innocent are always protected. One shred of doubt is enough to thrown a case out.



Shango responds with:

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:14 pm
Simian your Dopple has resumed position
Bird on the wire


No one has posted as Simian during this time.  We have often thought Shango's reference to Dopple (short for doppleganger) meant someone else posting as Simian.  But...the actual definition is a ghostly double or counterpart of a living person.  I believe Shango was referring to whoever it was that was telling Simian what to say.

Simian does not post again until 9:27 pm.  For over five hours Shango holds the attention of audience for the early evening hours.  Could Simian be in a "strategy session" during this time?


Truthseeker..what is your opinion of Simian’s double posts?…there are many…and he also posts similar posts under different topics. I have thought this was because he was being forwarded information, multi tasking and lost where he was at. Here he tried to post the word casino twice, it appears from reading the FP…this was in reference to his “boyfriend from earlier in the week…met at the same casino”. Was he trying to imply he knew more and could not say what he wanted? TIA

Reply #978 on: July 23, 2008, 07:36:03 AM » Mum   
 
More on Simian’s posts…From the FP on June 22nd. 2005

“Your post is awaiting moderation”
“Your post is awaiting moderation”
“Can’t say what I want”…

LOL…So intelligent he needed another poster to point out that he couldn’t post the word “casino”… 

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2886.msg401255#msg401255


I can't really tell if there was a specific motive behind the double posts.  Sometimes I think it may have been because of the slow reponse time of the sight and he may have thought his first one did not go through.  And, yes, sometimes I think he was viewing so many pages and posts that he would post a response on the wrong page and then go and post it on the page he originally meant to post on.  (hmmm....lol....I've done that before.  And no, I am not Simian.  lol)

Was casino a 'banned' word on the Front Page back then?



Truthseeker…That was the day…I had to check as I was not sure if it was Jake or Skippy…No-one was trying to stop Simian from saying what he wanted…he just kept trying to post “Casino”,IMO…I copied a few more posts to show what the posters thought of Simian on that day…LOL

Posts in blue are about 'casino and moderation'...

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2005/06/21/beth-twitty-and-the-van-der-sloots-meet/#comments


Snippy on June 22nd, 2005 1:31 pm  
What does it mean when it says my comment is waiting Moderation..Have I said something wrong?

Snippy on June 22nd, 2005 1:39 pm
OK, I ask a question about my post..now the post in question isn’t there….I didn’t swear I merely answered someones question about the night Natalee met Van Der Sloop..what could be wrong in that for crap sake…??

Snippy on June 22nd, 2005 1:44 pm
Can anyone answer why my poist had a comment after it that said..Post being Monitored and then it was later deleted..HELP…Maybe they think I’m on to something..LOL…Guess I won’t be answering my door today or the phone

Red on June 22nd, 2005 1:45 pm
Snippy - check your email.
Question for everyone here? You can send email to answer.
Is there a reason why you guys do not use the discussion forum?
The only reason why I ask (actually more than one) is that both comments & forums are bringing up interesting points and neither side is seeing them.
Just a quick email would be appreciated Just trying to get some feedback. Would like all of you to participate under the same umbrella.
Thanks.

Snippy on June 22nd, 2005 1:48 pm
pktblc..I don’t know..I’ve hardly posted anything that could be taken as vulgar or troublemaking…I’ll check my E-Mail

Simian on June 22nd, 2005 2:59 pm
There’s not even a trace of her. At this point I am inclined to believe in a theory that has been going around on the island, but that I find difficult to post here.

crs on June 22nd, 2005 3:02 pm
Simian - just tell us - don’t offer us pudding and then eat it yourself.

Jake on June 22nd, 2005 3:03 pm
Simien:
How can you possibly find it hard to post anything here! Pls. tell me/us what is going around on the island!

Simian on June 22nd, 2005 3:11 pm
What Countrymoon is saying is true. In Aruba we wonder how come WE do not get a chance to interrogate some chaperone or the group of kids that were swimming in front of the Holiday Inn until 6 in the morning.

crs on June 22nd, 2005 3:21 pm
I guess Simian’s mom put him down for a nap finally.

Red on June 22nd, 2005 3:50 pm
Folks
Comments have to be shut down for a bit because of too much traffic. Let us deal with some server issues.
When we turn them back on, the top post will be available for comments.
Tom & Red

Simian on June 22nd, 2005 4:23 pm
The news in Aruba has reported that Joran has shut down.

crs on June 22nd, 2005 4:29 pm
Sim - Right now we hear Joran has changed his story again - what do your hear?

Simian on June 22nd, 2005 4:31 pm
I tried to, but I got a message saying that my post would bo placed in through the moderator. I tried again and got the same message. Maybe I am not allowed to say what I know.

ladyJA on June 22nd, 2005 4:43 pm
Is Simian gone??

Simian on June 22nd, 2005 4:45 pm
I hope they find her. The gov’t and the private sector should give the whole island the day off to go wave her goodbye at the Airport.

Jake on June 22nd, 2005 4:46 pm
Do you guys believe that Simien tried to send us a message and got placed in a “moderator”????? Do you think he’s for real? Or are his walls padded? Or maybe he needs a nap?

Simian on June 22nd, 2005 4:48 pm
I am here. Can’t say the things I want…

crs on June 22nd, 2005 4:50 pm
Tom/Red - can you elaborate at all on Simian?

MOMfromMO on June 22nd, 2005 4:50 pm
Jake to Simian: Oopsey…I think Simian’s back. Maybe he could answer about the ‘padded walls’. :O

Simian on June 22nd, 2005 4:50 pm
Some people on the other side of the pond know more than what they are saying. There testimony, there’s security footage, there are witnesses.

crs on June 22nd, 2005 4:53 pm
Sim can you elaborate anymore than that? Is this your opinion or based on something mre concrete?

pktbk on June 22nd, 2005 4:53 pm
wow…..we’ve made more progress in the last five minutes than all week!!

crs on June 22nd, 2005 4:54 pm
pktbk - sim is contradicting what checkme says. Thoughts?

Simian on June 22nd, 2005 4:56 pm
The 5th suspect has an alibi so strong that he has everybody baffled.

Continued posts and questions on the alibi and boyfriend…

MOMfromMO on June 22nd, 2005 5:19 pm
Hey Sim?
Didn’t you mention earlier that when you were ‘awaiting moderation’, that it occurred when you typed (the word for a place to gamble)???

Snippy on June 22nd, 2005 5:37 pm
MOM, that was I that mentioned that gambling place called a C…just thought I’d peek in and see what the therories are now…so Sim thinks a kid on the trip did the deed? Can’t figure out for the life of me what he’s saying..SPIT IT OUT…instead of playing these word games for goodness sake.

Simian on June 22nd, 2005 5:41 pm
Simian Says: Your comment is awaiting moderation.

June 22nd, 2005 at 5:40 pm
Simian Says: Your comment is awaiting moderation.

June 22nd, 2005 at 5:38 pm
Checkme…check this…and please recheck:
Girl comes to Aruba. Meets cool and crazy guy in C@$ino. Goes out with him. He declares that to be the case. Can’t deny it. It’s on tape. Everybody in the C@$ino knows the group of teens, they have been drinking in there for free the whole week.
After a couple of days girl meets another boy in the same C@$ino. Goes out with him. This makes first guy really mad. So mad he confronts second boy.
First guy never denies the affair. He knows they know he was with her. However, he has an airtight alibi. Some friends say they were at home with him. Until the morning.
How can this ever be solved?

Snippy on June 22nd, 2005 5:45 pm
Sim..I get you now..THANKS…you could be right..I “See” you mentioned that dreaded C word like I did and had your post deleted…

Back to the boyfriend from earlier in the week…
































Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 04, 2008, 02:07:38 PM
Odd.  I can't imagine why the word casino would have been the problem.  Just coincidence that SM was have a server overload and two posters thought the reason their post never made it through was because of that word????

Maybe Klaas can answer that.


I have all of those posts saved myself, but have not spent as much time on the early Simian posts as I have on the ones Simian made after Shango made his appearance.  It's interesting to see the difference in Simian's posting style then vs later on after Shango appeared on the site.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 04, 2008, 06:23:08 PM
Odd.  I can't imagine why the word casino would have been the problem.  Just coincidence that SM was have a server overload and two posters thought the reason their post never made it through was because of that word????

Maybe Klaas can answer that.


I have all of those posts saved myself, but have not spent as much time on the early Simian posts as I have on the ones Simian made after Shango made his appearance.  It's interesting to see the difference in Simian's posting style then vs later on after Shango appeared on the site.


Simian was talking to the posters at the time.  In fact, it was Checkme, that brought up the sex slavery that prompted Simian's response.  Keep in mind that all posts were being reviewed before they were posted so there is some lag time between what Simian was reading and his responses being posted.  Those on Aruba were also hearing things on the local radio stations that the national media was not privy to.  I think Simian got much of his information from there instead of his relatives.  When he did start leaking info that his relatives were passing along things got nasty between him and Shango.  The police were keeping watch over the blogs too and they literally set him up.  Simian would never admit it but he got the shaft in the deal.  He came onboard as soon as Steve Croes was arrested and things began to look bad for him.  I think he was told to find out what they were saying about him and Simian got caught up in the attention he received from the other posters.   


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on August 04, 2008, 06:47:38 PM
Odd.  I can't imagine why the word casino would have been the problem.  Just coincidence that SM was have a server overload and two posters thought the reason their post never made it through was because of that word????

Maybe Klaas can answer that.


I have all of those posts saved myself, but have not spent as much time on the early Simian posts as I have on the ones Simian made after Shango made his appearance.  It's interesting to see the difference in Simian's posting style then vs later on after Shango appeared on the site.


Simian was talking to the posters at the time.  In fact, it was Checkme, that brought up the sex slavery that prompted Simian's response.  Keep in mind that all posts were being reviewed before they were posted so there is some lag time between what Simian was reading and his responses being posted.  Those on Aruba were also hearing things on the local radio stations that the national media was not privy to.  I think Simian got much of his information from there instead of his relatives.  When he did start leaking info that his relatives were passing along things got nasty between him and Shango.  The police were keeping watch over the blogs too and they literally set him up.  Simian would never admit it but he got the shaft in the deal.  He came onboard as soon as Steve Croes was arrested and things began to look bad for him.  I think he was told to find out what they were saying about him and Simian got caught up in the attention he received from the other posters.   


Lala’s…Are you saying that his posts awaiting moderation had nothing to do with the word casino? He did come back with C@$ino in the next posts.

What do you think about his double and triple, similar posts. The one about Paulus being picked up, he posted on one page, then came back on another and then returned to the first one..TIA

LOL...on 6/22, before Shango started posting they sure didn't sound very complimentary...there were more like I posted in the previous post....maybe his Mom put him down for a nap...LOL


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on August 04, 2008, 06:52:44 PM
Mum,

I remember those posts regarding the Mansurs.  Those posts do cause some raised eyebrows, especially when you dig into the possible motives of Shango.  Thanks for bringing them back out.  I don't think we can move forward too much without stuff like this being considered.

I have never crossed Jossy off of my list as a possible Shango author.  He is not the only one on my list, though.

Such wise people we have on here.  Good decision.  Jossy is always on the list in one way or the other.  I still hold to the keep your enemies closer theory on most things concerning Aruba.  When it comes to political parties and Aruba those thoughts can never be far from the front. 

So van der Straten was appointed by AVP, Jossy’s party, and Jossy said he did a great job. Lala’s do you recall what else he said about van der Straten? I thought he gave some comments on Scared Monkeys Radio one time? Just don't recall offhand exactly what he said. TIA

I would think that as Silverfox has alluded to previously he probably knew Betico Croes pretty well and there is a connection to Hendrick Croes’ legal firm and that Trust with the bank. Political connection to Betico, business connection to Hendrick. Still need to reread all that Mansur stuff…not enough hours….





Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 04, 2008, 07:21:24 PM
I do not think there is any significance in the double postings.  Simply hitting the submit button twice will do that.  I have no idea about the word casino, but it was happening days before that. Other bloggers mentioned it on the FP also, I think.

I would need to get confirmation from someone, but when the FP was busy they couldn't approve the posts fast enough and you get that response.  I have posted on the FP and received that same message.  Klaas reviews them all and I suspect that even back then they did  the same. 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 04, 2008, 07:23:58 PM
Mum,

I remember those posts regarding the Mansurs.  Those posts do cause some raised eyebrows, especially when you dig into the possible motives of Shango.  Thanks for bringing them back out.  I don't think we can move forward too much without stuff like this being considered.

I have never crossed Jossy off of my list as a possible Shango author.  He is not the only one on my list, though.

Such wise people we have on here.  Good decision.  Jossy is always on the list in one way or the other.  I still hold to the keep your enemies closer theory on most things concerning Aruba.  When it comes to political parties and Aruba those thoughts can never be far from the front. 

So van der Straten was appointed by AVP, Jossy’s party, and Jossy said he did a great job. Lala’s do you recall what else he said about van der Straten? I thought he gave some comments on Scared Monkeys Radio one time? Just don't recall offhand exactly what he said. TIA

I would think that as Silverfox has alluded to previously he probably knew Betico Croes pretty well and there is a connection to Hendrick Croes’ legal firm and that Trust with the bank. Political connection to Betico, business connection to Hendrick. Still need to reread all that Mansur stuff…not enough hours….





I do remember because one of Jossy's responses to a question was from me.  He said he still trusted van der Straten and had no reason to think he was not doing everything possible to find a resolution in the case.  As far as I can tell, Jossy has not changed his mind on that yet.  Then again, he said he had faith in Karen Jansen too.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 04, 2008, 07:38:02 PM
Truthseeker has me rereading the early posts of Simian again and I found something that Mum will find interesting...maybe...it kind of puts a kink in the "Paulus is the 5th" theory.  Just throwing it out there to show how confusing it all can be if you believe everything that was posted at that time.

It seems this poster nicknamed "blogger" was dropping hints just as Checkme and Simian were doing at the time.  He claimed to have a brother that worked in some capacity in LE that was similar to FBI.  Regardless, the posters were challenging him about his sources.

I have included only the posts relating to this particular person.  Checkme and Lucy were discussing Lorenzo off and on during this time also.  Steve Croes had been arrested that morning. 


#  blogger info on June 17th, 2005 5:45 pm

ok - so you know I am not FOS, here is what I can tell you. There will be yet another arrest possibly by this evening if not by tomorrow, which is another individual who is freinds with Croes.

Of course, if I am right, I will see you all here tomorrow with whatever else I can find out and to ensure that Marshall will be eating squid!


eagle on June 17th, 2005 5:50 pm

blogger - i am still unconvinced. what will be the initials of Croes’s friends name?


blogger info on June 17th, 2005 5:53 pm

Obviously I was not provided with that information - but dont you figure that if there is an arrest of someone affiliated with Croes in the next 24 hours that maybe I was enough on the mark to know something? Maybe - maybe not. You will have to trust me or not - your choice.


Lucy on June 17th, 2005 5:55 pm

Blogger
If you are for real, I think you are taking the risk of compromising somebody’s job without their knowledge.

Also, if you are for real, this guy will probably be the guy with the flashy truck.


eagle on June 17th, 2005 5:56 pm

i want to trust you blogger but i need one more piece of info. does the next person arrested come from aruba or some other country - such as adicora venezuela?


blogger info on June 17th, 2005 6:02 pm

Eagle - your answer is Aruba.

As to the compromising of someone’s job - the info I am getting and providing is not confidential or highly sensitive - just not being published. The info I shared is certainly not something that is part of any US led investigation - but that of Aruba’s. Simply relaying info learned from the Aruba govt sources. The wheels have already been in motion on the next arrest and probably wont be too much of a surprise for those in Aruba who have their ears to the ground on this case.


#  Checkme on June 17th, 2005 6:02 pm

Look for the blue (with grafiti) delivery truck getting impounded…
# Checkme on June 17th, 2005 6:03 pm

the justices are having a hard time holding on to the suspects without a body…


Checkme on June 17th, 2005 6:07 pm

Blogger,
Cool. So it’s out police giving the data… I feel better. Thanks.





http://scaredmonkeys.com/2005/06/17/breaking-news-4th-person-arrested-in-natalee-holloway-case/#comments


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on August 04, 2008, 08:25:01 PM
Truthseeker has me rereading the early posts of Simian again and I found something that Mum will find interesting...maybe...it kind of puts a kink in the "Paulus is the 5th" theory.  Just throwing it out there to show how confusing it all can be if you believe everything that was posted at that time.

It seems this poster nicknamed "blogger" was dropping hints just as Checkme and Simian were doing at the time.  He claimed to have a brother that worked in some capacity in LE that was similar to FBI.  Regardless, the posters were challenging him about his sources.

I have included only the posts relating to this particular person.  Checkme and Lucy were discussing Lorenzo off and on during this time also.  Steve Croes had been arrested that morning. 


#  blogger info on June 17th, 2005 5:45 pm

ok - so you know I am not FOS, here is what I can tell you. There will be yet another arrest possibly by this evening if not by tomorrow, which is another individual who is freinds with Croes.

Of course, if I am right, I will see you all here tomorrow with whatever else I can find out and to ensure that Marshall will be eating squid!


eagle on June 17th, 2005 5:50 pm

blogger - i am still unconvinced. what will be the initials of Croes’s friends name?


blogger info on June 17th, 2005 5:53 pm

Obviously I was not provided with that information - but dont you figure that if there is an arrest of someone affiliated with Croes in the next 24 hours that maybe I was enough on the mark to know something? Maybe - maybe not. You will have to trust me or not - your choice.


Lucy on June 17th, 2005 5:55 pm

Blogger
If you are for real, I think you are taking the risk of compromising somebody’s job without their knowledge.

Also, if you are for real, this guy will probably be the guy with the flashy truck.


eagle on June 17th, 2005 5:56 pm

i want to trust you blogger but i need one more piece of info. does the next person arrested come from aruba or some other country - such as adicora venezuela?


blogger info on June 17th, 2005 6:02 pm

Eagle - your answer is Aruba.

As to the compromising of someone’s job - the info I am getting and providing is not confidential or highly sensitive - just not being published. The info I shared is certainly not something that is part of any US led investigation - but that of Aruba’s. Simply relaying info learned from the Aruba govt sources. The wheels have already been in motion on the next arrest and probably wont be too much of a surprise for those in Aruba who have their ears to the ground on this case.


#  Checkme on June 17th, 2005 6:02 pm

Look for the blue (with grafiti) delivery truck getting impounded…
# Checkme on June 17th, 2005 6:03 pm

the justices are having a hard time holding on to the suspects without a body…


Checkme on June 17th, 2005 6:07 pm

Blogger,
Cool. So it’s out police giving the data… I feel better. Thanks.





http://scaredmonkeys.com/2005/06/17/breaking-news-4th-person-arrested-in-natalee-holloway-case/#comments


wasn't PVDS a suspect?
Wasn't DirtyHand kept hidden? Did Shango ever say DirtyHand was a suspect?
and the music man's song was not on the bill?
who said the alibi played for Van der Sloots?-then who else could it have played for? DirtyHand?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on August 04, 2008, 08:28:43 PM
when Lorenzo was arrested more recently......had pondered whether that had been his first time behind the wheel of the polis car.......the polis must have left the keys in their pants pocket


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 04, 2008, 08:47:29 PM
Colombo
We will continue to debate the 5th suspect due to the fact that all the media in Aruba were talking about someone that we don't know.  Mum has documented this to be true.  They did not say Paulus. It was someone else.  Problem is, we can't nail down when it was.  Before or after Steve Croes' arrest.  Remember Simian was reporting things that were being said on Aruba at the time.  Not necessarily what the American media was hearing.  They spent their time playing catch up because the Aruban media was not enamored with them.  Also, it would be interesting to ask Jossy who the person was that was arrested around the same time as Steve Croes...actually he may have been asked that in relation to a Lorenzo comment.  I can't really remember any more.  Jossy always sidestepped the Lorenzo discussion other than to say it was rumored to be.....etc. etc. 

If Simian was talking about a literal boyfriend I do not think it was Paulus.  If Simian was using the term metaphorically or even sarcastically it could have been Paulus.  That would mean that Simian knew about the casino video footage as early as June.  Now where did he hear that tidbit of information?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 04, 2008, 08:48:36 PM
when Lorenzo was arrested more recently......had pondered whether that had been his first time behind the wheel of the polis car.......the polis must have left the keys in their pants pocket

Considering his private meeting with the judge and his subsequent release with no consequences I wonder about a lot of things.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on August 04, 2008, 08:51:20 PM
Colombo
We will continue to debate the 5th suspect due to the fact that all the media in Aruba were talking about someone that we don't know.  Mum has documented this to be true.  They did not say Paulus. It was someone else.  Problem is, we can't nail down when it was.  Before or after Steve Croes' arrest.  Remember Simian was reporting things that were being said on Aruba at the time.  Not necessarily what the American media was hearing.  They spent their time playing catch up because the Aruban media was not enamored with them.  Also, it would be interesting to ask Jossy who the person was that was arrested around the same time as Steve Croes...actually he may have been asked that in relation to a Lorenzo comment.  I can't really remember any more.  Jossy always sidestepped the Lorenzo discussion other than to say it was rumored to be.....etc. etc. 

If Simian was talking about a literal boyfriend I do not think it was Paulus.  If Simian was using the term metaphorically or even sarcastically it could have been Paulus.  That would mean that Simian knew about the casino video footage as early as June.  Now where did he hear that tidbit of information?


PVDS had one or two cards up his sleeve, they have been played and lost
one's song was not on the bill
the other card has been kept hidden


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on August 04, 2008, 08:54:23 PM
Simian used the word boyfriend, Shango says something else

The maze offers many hidden desires
deflowerings of forbidden fruits
DirtyHand knows
So does the elder

DirtyHand was not seeking pleasure for himself

If it did happen, and NH was not even concious-do you think that Simian would have posted? remember-he's hiding DirtyHand


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on August 04, 2008, 09:42:51 PM
Colombo
We will continue to debate the 5th suspect due to the fact that all the media in Aruba were talking about someone that we don't know.  Mum has documented this to be true.  They did not say Paulus. It was someone else.  Problem is, we can't nail down when it was.  Before or after Steve Croes' arrest.  Remember Simian was reporting things that were being said on Aruba at the time.  Not necessarily what the American media was hearing.  They spent their time playing catch up because the Aruban media was not enamored with them.  Also, it would be interesting to ask Jossy who the person was that was arrested around the same time as Steve Croes...actually he may have been asked that in relation to a Lorenzo comment.  I can't really remember any more.  Jossy always sidestepped the Lorenzo discussion other than to say it was rumored to be.....etc. etc. 

If Simian was talking about a literal boyfriend I do not think it was Paulus.  If Simian was using the term metaphorically or even sarcastically it could have been Paulus.  That would mean that Simian knew about the casino video footage as early as June.  Now where did he hear that tidbit of information?


I'll sit out the debate:

from an earlier post:
"On 6-23 MARIAINE CROES said "There is a reasonable suspicion that (Paulus van der Sloot) knows something and is involved in the disappearance." In a statement, Croes called Paulus van der Sloot the fifth suspect in the disappearance of NATALEE. "

CNN
Judge arrested in Aruba case
Fifth suspect in custody after U.S. teen's disappearance
Thursday, June 23, 2005; Posted: 10:01 p.m. EDT (02:01 GMT)
http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/06/23/aruba.holloway/index.html

Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
Father is a suspect of the disappearance.
Posted Jun 23, 3:10 PM


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on August 04, 2008, 09:44:00 PM
when Lorenzo was arrested more recently......had pondered whether that had been his first time behind the wheel of the polis car.......the polis must have left the keys in their pants pocket

Considering his private meeting with the judge and his subsequent release with no consequences I wonder about a lot of things.


dirty hand


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on August 04, 2008, 09:45:03 PM
when Lorenzo was arrested more recently......had pondered whether that had been his first time behind the wheel of the polis car.......the polis must have left the keys in their pants pocket

Considering his private meeting with the judge and his subsequent release with no consequences I wonder about a lot of things.


dirty hand

DirtyHand     and        "hand holding it dirty too"   (dirty hand)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on August 04, 2008, 10:02:41 PM
when Lorenzo was arrested more recently......had pondered whether that had been his first time behind the wheel of the polis car.......the polis must have left the keys in their pants pocket

Considering his private meeting with the judge and his subsequent release with no consequences I wonder about a lot of things.


omg.......auditioning the singing card???!!!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on August 05, 2008, 07:00:32 AM

Reply #1108 on: August 03, 2008, 02:49:12 PM Lala’s

Oh you are getting to the touchy part here...not very many of us can agree on who Dirty Hand is.  Without some agreement there can be no movement forward.  That has been one of the stumbling blocks to this whole thing.  If you go with Straten, then so many other theories are trampled on and that is when the war starts....keep talking. We may need to take each view one at a time and see what fits with Dirty Hand. Remember, Shango tells us that Dirty Hand was discovered.  Every time  I mention that fact it's glossed over for some reason.

Reply #1115 on: August 03, 2008, 03:04:35 PM Lala’s

Let's look at some of the theories of who is Dirty Hand:

van der Straten...yep he fits, he definitely left the island as was told. He was accused of calling Paulus on a regular basis in the early days.

Ben Vocking...he fits also, he was there at the house when they came to search it, he lived there at some point. He walked with Paulus.

Frans Duetekom...Caps insists that this is the guy that is dirty hand. He made a compelling argument.  My only caveat is that those he was talking to about dirty hand could not have been any posters outside of the Aruban culture because they would not know about this guy.  Would Shango being in Florida know this too? 

Rudy Croes...he would fit also and Tylergal believed it to him. She made a compelling argument also.  I think Rudy fits other characters in Shango, but that is just me.

There are others that would fit also, depending on the context of the post. Colombo feel free to jump in here and give us your ideas about who dirty hand is also.  I want to hear them all.

Reply #1116 on: August 03, 2008, 03:05:19 PM truthseeker2

Yes, I know.  But here is are the posts that clinch it for me:

Shango on June 27th, 2005 12:28 pm
Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon with his12:30 AM posting


Shango on June 27th, 2005 4:00 am
Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon with his 12:30 posting


Shango on June 27th, 2005 12:12 pm
Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon with his12:30 AM posting
If the cowboys do not find the loot today, it will not be found


Shango on June 27th, 2005 12:26 pm
Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon with his12:30 AM posting Simian your Doppleganger is with us


Shango on June 27th, 2005 12:28 pm
Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon with his12:30 AM posting


Shango on June 27th, 2005 9:44 pm
Babalu opened a window looking into babylon on his 12:31 A.M. Post
DirtyHand is alive


Shango on June 27th, 2005 9:48 pm
Babalu knew who dirty hand was at half past 12


drax on June 27th, 2005 10:57 pm
DirtyHand has walked through the maze:…is DirtyHand Poppa VDS?


Shango on June 27th, 2005 11:01 pm
The Drax asks a question for which he already provided an answer.


Shango on June 27th, 2005 11:04 pm
Babalu opened a window looking onto Babylon with his 12:30 A.M. post


drax on June 27th, 2005 11:08 pm
Shango says: The Drax asks a question for which he already provided an answer. I don’t understand, Shango.


Babalú on June 27th, 2005 11:10 pm
He’s talking about Dirty Hands identity, please refer to my post of yesterday 12:30 AM. He is JVDS, and not Joran.


Lucy on June 27th, 2005 10:56 pm
Someone said last night that Dirty Hand was somebody in the police.


Shango on June 27th, 2005 11:13 pm
Lucy spoke at 10:56


watcher on June 30th, 2005 2:29 am
I think Subdude is on the right track about the media putting pressure on WHY the polis chief is leaving.


Shango on June 30th, 2005 2:31 am Watcher opened a window looking onto babylon at 2:29. He holds the key to the ONLY door which opens the door to the lions den


Reply #949 on: April 25, 2008, 02:59:29 PM » Rob

Caps there are 5 Dirty Hands
Dirty Hand
DirtyHand
Dirty hand
dirty hand
dirtyhand


Shango on June 27th, 2005 9:44 pm
Babalu opened a window looking into babylon on his 12:31 A.M. Post
DirtyHand is alive

Shango on June 27th, 2005 9:48 pm
Babalu knew who dirty hand was at half past 12



Help! I am a little confused, as usual with Shango and his posts. Isn’t he saying here that DirtyHand and dirty hand are the same person? I like Rob always thought there was 5...now I am not so sure.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on August 05, 2008, 07:28:32 AM

Oh you are getting to the touchy part here...not very many of us can agree on who Dirty Hand is.  Without some agreement there can be no movement forward.  That has been one of the stumbling blocks to this whole thing.  If you go with Straten, then so many other theories are trampled on and that is when the war starts....keep talking. We may need to take each view one at a time and see what fits with Dirty Hand. Remember, Shango tells us that Dirty Hand was discovered.  Every time  I mention that fact it's glossed over for some reason.

Yes, I know.  But here is are the posts that clinch it for me:

Shango on June 27th, 2005 12:28 pm
Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon with his
12:30 AM posting

Shango on June 27th, 2005 4:00 am
Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon with his 12:30 posting

Shango on June 27th, 2005 12:12 pm
Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon with his
12:30 AM posting
If the cowboys do not find the loot today, it will not be found

Shango on June 27th, 2005 12:26 pm
Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon with his
12:30 AM posting
Simian your Doppleganger is with us

Shango on June 27th, 2005 12:28 pm
Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon with his
12:30 AM posting

Shango on June 27th, 2005 9:44 pm
Babalu opened a window looking into babylon on his 12:31 A.M. Post
DirtyHand is alive

Shango on June 27th, 2005 9:48 pm
Babalu knew who dirty hand was at half past 12

drax on June 27th, 2005 10:57 pm
DirtyHand has walked through the maze:…is DirtyHand Poppa VDS?

Shango on June 27th, 2005 11:01 pm
The Drax asks a question for which he already provided an answer.

Shango on June 27th, 2005 11:04 pm
Babalu opened a window looking onto Babylon with his 12:30 A.M. post

drax on June 27th, 2005 11:08 pm
Shango says: The Drax asks a question for which he already provided an answer.
I don’t understand, Shango.

Babalú on June 27th, 2005 11:10 pm
He’s talking about Dirty Hands identity, please refer to my post of yesterday 12:30 AM. He is JVDS, and not Joran.

Lucy on June 27th, 2005 10:56 pm
Someone said last night that Dirty Hand was somebody in the police.

Shango on June 27th, 2005 11:13 pm
Lucy spoke at 10:56

watcher on June 30th, 2005 2:29 am
I think Subdude is on the right track about the media putting pressure on WHY the polis chief is leaving.


Shango on June 30th, 2005 2:31 am
Watcher opened a window looking onto babylon at 2:29.
He holds the key to the ONLY door which opens the door to the lions den


I agree.  But Shango never comes out and says "Yes, Dirty Hand is Straten."  He only says that Babalu opened a window.  That could easily mean "You are getting warmer Babalu."   There are too many others that will dispute the fact that Babalu was merely trying to guess what Shango meant.  If Babalu had indeed told us who Dirty Hand was, why did Shango later say:

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:58 pm
Arawaks want to make cowboys happy
Babylonians want to maintain integrity of Great House
Gods of the cowboys know there was a game in the great house,
and so DirtyHand was discovered
But the sacrifice will be offered before dirty hand sings
He will return to babylon, broken but anonymous 



If babylon is the casinos, this could be Posner. His lawyer reported he returned to Aruba the day after Natalee disappeared, IIRC.

If babylon is Holland, the only ones I can think of are these:

Van der Straten…IIRC, Dave said he was going to Holland for medical reasons
Ben Vocking… reportedly went to Holland
Rudy Croes…Gabe Leo posted he was in Columbia for a wedding that weekend

Why did Shango keep interchanging lower and upper case? Upper case Great House –integrity of- sounds like a different place than lower case great house, which to me sounds like a casino??




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on August 05, 2008, 07:41:24 AM
Truth
There were several that left at a critical time.  We were just discussing that a few weeks ago in the main Natalee thread.  Mum will have those answers when she checks in.  She is a gold mine of reference for those like me.

I think even minor players left also...such as the bartender and Guido.  I agree that the person that Shango is talking about would have to be Straten.  He retired and went to wherever to continue his reign in law enforcement. There is just as much confirmation as there is contradiction here on this particular subject.  I won't argue with you, but there are many others that simply say it was not Straten.  It was Frans Deutekom.  I didn't know diddly about that guy until Caps arrived.  I think he said once that Deutekom was in the other car.  I know that there are many that are convinced that Ben Vocking fits this description because he left the island also. It is a matter of interpretation.  I will agree that Straten is confirmed by Shango for the time being.  Carry on, you are doing great.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:42 pm
Arawaks hold singing card from babylon
There is also a trio. One Babylonian. 2 Shivas.
Arawaks can’t let babylonian Card sing because hand holding it dirty too.


Frans Deutekom???


Does he fit? Truthseeker thinks DirtyHand was discovered by the Hague.

He will return to babylon, broken but anonymous

He certainly remained anonymous...for a while at least. But where would babylon be in this post???



Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:58 pm
Arawaks want to make cowboys happy
Babylonians want to maintain integrity of Great House
Gods of the cowboys know there was a game in the great house,
and so DirtyHand was discovered
But the sacrifice will be offered before dirty hand sings
He will return to babylon, broken but anonymous


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on August 05, 2008, 08:13:39 AM
I know where you are coming from, Lala's.  And I agree.  Why would Simian blatantly ignore such direct confrontation from Shango?  He was quick to respond to others who disagreed, but not Shango.  My theory is that  Shango was "getting it right" and Simian was trying to get someone to "ping" him to find out who he was.  I'm not sure Simian could ping, but I think he was concerned about Shango.

I don't think Simian cared.  I think he already knew who Shango was. 

Maybe.  One thing for sure...he cared later on when the two di get into a verbal sparing match.

Can some-one point me to this, please. I am not sure if I am thinking of what is being referred to.  TIA

I am ready for that glossary from everyone now... ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on August 05, 2008, 09:15:26 AM
when Lorenzo was arrested more recently......had pondered whether that had been his first time behind the wheel of the polis car.......the polis must have left the keys in their pants pocket

Considering his private meeting with the judge and his subsequent release with no consequences I wonder about a lot of things.

Posnr. 

And the one who held him (in a different jail cell) was also dirty - a dirty cop.

Posnr magically disappeared when Natalee disappeared, and then a few weeks later reappeared. Where did he go? Anybody know? Any proof of wherever he went other than a lawyer saying so?  There was a big Texas hold'em going on inside HIS ca$ino - so he decides to leave all that behind? And go where?
 
I still say Posnr or a relative "skeered" is involved. Why is everybody looking outside of ca$inos when 75% of codetalkers mention gambling phrases?



DirtyHand     and        "hand holding it dirty too"   (dirty hand)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on August 05, 2008, 09:20:45 AM
when Lorenzo was arrested more recently......had pondered whether that had been his first time behind the wheel of the polis car.......the polis must have left the keys in their pants pocket

Considering his private meeting with the judge and his subsequent release with no consequences I wonder about a lot of things.


dirty hand

DirtyHand     and        "hand holding it dirty too"   (dirty hand)

IGNORE PREVIOUS POST- I SCREWED UP THE QUOTES - HERE'S WHAT I MEANT TO POST BUT IT GOT TANGLED UP IN LALA'S QUOTES BY MISTAKE (SORRY) :

Posnr. 

And the one who held him (in a different jail cell) was also dirty - a dirty cop.

Posnr magically disappeared when Natalee disappeared, and then a few weeks later reappeared. Where did he go? Anybody know? Any proof of wherever he went other than a lawyer saying so?  There was a big Texas hold'em going on inside HIS ca$ino - so he decides to leave all that behind? And go where?
 
I still say Posnr or a relative "skeered" is involved. Why is everybody looking outside of ca$inos when 75% of codetalkers mention gambling phrases?



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on August 05, 2008, 09:31:13 AM
Posnr was throwing the party - the Texas Hold'em party - in his (ca$ino) 'house'. He was the host. How could he have left? The party goers (gamblers) say he was with them....he was the host!

They were in the ca$inos drinking for free all week. There are witnesses. There's security footage.

The b'friend from earlier in the week. Does Posnr have a son Natalees age?

Those 'across the pond' (that fled?) know more than they are saying (cuz they were working that night inside the ca$inos?)

(sorry if I misquoted the codetalker prose - I haven't had my cup a java yet this morning )  ::MonkeyCool::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on August 05, 2008, 10:18:59 AM
Poochy…Posner’s son was 45 in 2005…This is how Posner “legally” managed to own a Casino.  Jossy must have known this before he did his article on Posner.

I can’t make everything “fit” with the casinos. Lol…I can’t make anything fit…

Not sure what you are referring to by 75% of Codetalkers.  Could you elaborate please?  TIA

EXCELSIOR CASINO N.V.
Business address J.E. IRAUSQUIN BLVD. 230, NOORD
Legal form LIMITED LIABILITY COMPANY
Name of the company EXCELSIOR CASINO N.V.
Statutory seat ARUBA
Date of incorporation 19 JUNE 1998
Authorized capital ARUBAN FLORINS 100,000.00
Issued capital ARUBAN FLORINS 20,000.00
Paid up capital ARUBAN FLORINS 20,000.00
Fiscal year 01 JANUARY thru 31 DECEMBER
DIRECTORS - AUTHORIZED PERSONS AND CORPORATE BODIES - SUPERVISORY BOARD:
POSNER, WALTER BRETT;
Residing in 9 BANOCKBURN COURT , BANOCKBURN III, U.S.A.
Born in U.S.A., CHICAGO, ILLINOIS on 21 MAY 1960
Nationality AMERICAN
Position MANAGING DIRECTOR
Effective 23 OCTOBER 1998
Authority FULL
OBJECTIVE(S) OF THE COMPANY
TO OPERATE A CASINO AT THE "HOLIDAY IN RESORT".




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on August 05, 2008, 11:00:10 AM
Poochy…Posner’s son was 45 in 2005…This is how Posner “legally” managed to own a Casino.  Jossy must have known this before he did his article on Posner.

I can’t make everything “fit” with the casinos. Lol…I can’t make anything fit…

Not sure what you are referring to by 75% of Codetalkers.  Could you elaborate please?  TIA

EXCELSIOR CASINO N.V.
Business address J.E. IRAUSQUIN BLVD. 230, NOORD
Legal form LIMITED LIABILITY COMPANY
Name of the company EXCELSIOR CASINO N.V.
Statutory seat ARUBA
Date of incorporation 19 JUNE 1998
Authorized capital ARUBAN FLORINS 100,000.00
Issued capital ARUBAN FLORINS 20,000.00
Paid up capital ARUBAN FLORINS 20,000.00
Fiscal year 01 JANUARY thru 31 DECEMBER
DIRECTORS - AUTHORIZED PERSONS AND CORPORATE BODIES - SUPERVISORY BOARD:
POSNER, WALTER BRETT;
Residing in 9 BANOCKBURN COURT , BANOCKBURN III, U.S.A.
Born in U.S.A., CHICAGO, ILLINOIS on 21 MAY 1960
Nationality AMERICAN
Position MANAGING DIRECTOR
Effective 23 OCTOBER 1998
Authority FULL
OBJECTIVE(S) OF THE COMPANY
TO OPERATE A CASINO AT THE "HOLIDAY IN RESORT".


So Posnr has a son age 45. The son age 45 could easily have a son age 17-25. Interesting.
 
PVDS had one or two cards up his sleeve, they have been played and lost:

#1) one's song was not on the bill = THIS WAS STEVE CROES THE SINGING CARD.  
#2) the other card has been kept hidden = THIS WAS THE BABYLONIAN CARD HELD BY 'HAND HOLDING IT IS DIRTY TOO'.

...SO IS THERE A 3RD PERSON=DirtyHand besides the 2 above? Is #2 above a witness held for his own protection and is the '5th' - the bfriend from earlier in the week?

Or is #2 DirtyHand? (this is all so confusing)  ::MonkeyConfused::

(MUM - 75% of the prose that is - mainly referencing casinos=via terms like gambling, cards, deck, hands, win, lost, cards up sleeve, etc. )


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: finngirl on August 05, 2008, 12:51:36 PM
I know where you are coming from, Lala's.  And I agree.  Why would Simian blatantly ignore such direct confrontation from Shango?  He was quick to respond to others who disagreed, but not Shango.  My theory is that  Shango was "getting it right" and Simian was trying to get someone to "ping" him to find out who he was.  I'm not sure Simian could ping, but I think he was concerned about Shango.

I don't think Simian cared.  I think he already knew who Shango was. 

Maybe.  One thing for sure...he cared later on when the two did get into a verbal sparring match.

Can some-one point me to this, please. I am not sure if I am thinking of what is being referred to.  TIA

three chock full o' nuggets threads/links below

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

mid afternoon june 26 thru early afternoon june 27
just prior to/during the start of TES Moko quarry search

sim ignoring shango/competition for posters' attention

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2005/06/26/natalee-holloway-breaking-aruba-news-croes-released/#comments

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

41. new girl on June 27th, 2005 12:34 pm
One post made yesterday by Simian was a confirmation for me that he’s got legit inside information. At 4:04 pm he posted:

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:04 pm
The wire has been shaken. The bird has left.

When news broke at around 6 pm that elder VDS had been ordered released by the judge and had been already released from custody, it seemed clear to me that Simian knew this at 4:04.


http://scaredmonkeys.com/2005/06/27/mountain-brook-community-turns-out-for-natalee-holloway/#comments

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

shango to sim: "I told you so": nothing found in quarry

422. Shango on June 27th, 2005 11:48 pm
The Simian was incorrect about the package from the Hague
I told the Simian, but the Simian would not listen
The simian is not a simian, but an austrolopithecus


sim out-ed as female/cat fight begins around 2am june 28

623. Simian on June 28th, 2005 1:43 am
The Simian has a handicap of 12.

648. Simian on June 28th, 2005 2:01 am
The Simian is getting out. Knows Shango, knows Shock, knows Checkme. Do not underestimate the power of the ping.

Shango is a dumb copycat. Maybe the Simian should place a call on you. Get you 8 days with a hole to take a dump in. Complementary peanut butter on stale bread for you, you fool.

The Simian is angry. Over and out.

669. Robalo33 on June 28th, 2005 2:21 am
J’aime mieux passer les temps avec un femme comme vous Simian.
[I like/enjoy spending time with a female/woman like you Simian.]

697. Simian on June 28th, 2005 2:53 am
Shango, whenever you think you can get on the inside of the real Aruban society give me a sign, you probably were picking up the trash.

You have been pinged. Bai drumi! Ta laat caba.
[Go to sleep! It is late.]

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2005/06/27/riehl-world-has-interesting-news/#comments



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 05, 2008, 01:46:14 PM
There is a Josh(ua) Posner listed as :

Owner at Aruba Aloe
Director of E-Commerce at Aruba Aloe

He attended The College of Wooster and graduated in 2006.  Just about Natalee's age.

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/4/a96/390

Seems he was also interested in magic.

http://www.wooster.edu/voice/20020920/features_magic.html



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 05, 2008, 01:50:20 PM
Yes, Finngirl, that is some of what I was referring to this weekend.  Shango had a few choice words for Simian as well:

Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 2:59 am
The Simian Doppleganger is upset because the arawak nation is hiding the truth from the cowboys
DirtyHand knows
Simian knows
The Simian stated for 2 days, the key would come from the hague the next day
Shango said no two times
Is Simian a DirtyHand too
Has the Simian played with the lions
in the houses of ill-repute and poison notes
where the innocent flies are lured?
Has the Simian, primate that he is, fed with the other animals?
Back ye fetid mongrel, as the 46th are you; delegate of the 7th level of inferno,
not birthed, but spewed from the dark chasm of a nightmare!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: finngirl on August 05, 2008, 02:29:34 PM
Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 2:59 am
The Simian Doppleganger is upset because the arawak nation
is hiding the truth from the cowboys

DirtyHand knows

Simian knows

The Simian stated for 2 days,
the key would come from the hague the next day

Shango said no two times
 
Is Simian a DirtyHand too

Has the Simian played with the lions
in the houses of ill-repute and poison notes
where the innocent flies are lured?

Has the Simian, primate that he is, fed with the other animals?

Back ye fetid mongrel, as the 46th are you;
delegate of the 7th level of inferno,
not birthed, but spewed from the dark chasm of a nightmare!


Dants'e Inferno/The Circles of Hell
Virgil guides Dante through the nine circles of Hell.

Seventh Circle
This circle houses the violent. Its entry is guarded by the Minotaur, and it is divided into three rings:

Outer ring, housing the violent against people and property, who are immersed in Phlegethon, a river of boiling blood, to a level commensurate with their sins.

Middle ring: In this ring are the suicides, who are transformed into gnarled thorny bushes and trees. They are torn at by the Harpies.

Inner ring: The violent against God (blasphemers), the violent against nature (sodomites), and the violent against order (usurers), all reside in a desert of flaming sand with fiery flakes raining from the sky.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Divine_Comedy


Level 7
Guarded by the Minotaur, who snarls in fury, and encircled within the river Phlegethon, filled with boiling blood, is the Seventh Level of Hell. The violent, the assassins, the tyrants, and the war-mongers lament their pitiless mischiefs in the river, while centaurs armed with bows and arrows shoot those who try to escape their punishment. The stench here is overpowering. This level is also home to the wood of the suicides- stunted and gnarled trees with twisting branches and poisoned fruit. At the time of final judgement, their bodies will hang from their branches. In those branches the Harpies, foul birdlike creatures with human faces, make their nests. Beyond the wood is scorching sand where those who committed violence against God and nature are showered with flakes of fire that rain down against their naked bodies. Blasphemers and sodomites writhe in pain, their tongues more loosed to lamentation, and out of their eyes gushes forth their woe. Usurers, who followed neither nature nor art, also share company in the Seventh Level.
http://www.4degreez.com/misc/dante-inferno-information.html


userer: One who lends money at interest,
especially at an exorbitant or unlawfully high rate:
loanshark



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 05, 2008, 02:32:48 PM
There is a Josh(ua) Posner listed as :

Owner at Aruba Aloe
Director of E-Commerce at Aruba Aloe

He attended The College of Wooster and graduated in 2006.  Just about Natalee's age.

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/4/a96/390

Seems he was also interested in magic.

http://www.wooster.edu/voice/20020920/features_magic.html



Hear Josh "read" his report on Aloe Vera:

http://jbreitenbuch.wooster.edu/~jonb/itredo/files/biology_of_tropics_npr/Josh_Posner.mp3


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: finngirl on August 05, 2008, 02:33:15 PM
Dants'e Inferno/The Circles of Hell

should be: Dante's Inferno/The Circles of Hell

 :roll:



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on August 05, 2008, 02:38:13 PM
There is a Josh(ua) Posner listed as :

Owner at Aruba Aloe
Director of E-Commerce at Aruba Aloe

He attended The College of Wooster and graduated in 2006.  Just about Natalee's age.

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/4/a96/390

Seems he was also interested in magic.

http://www.wooster.edu/voice/20020920/features_magic.html


Now that is interesting. Very interesting.

The young age, and the magic and the Aruba Aloe company that's "hidden in PLAIN VIEW".

Two boys. Two fathers.

One boy was late for school, the other boy was on time.

The reminder phone call ringing in the background during Papa sloot's sweating bullets interview in his home.

MAGIC:
the grey whisper said "...the talisman in his hand is running out of charms... the broomsticks are enchanted, but their master may regret the dance now that it has been set..."  Who is the 'master' - GRANDPA POSNR?

So who was calling Paulus on his home phone during his sweating bullets interview? GRANDPA?

Did Paulus go to FL to discuss not ending his babylonian offspring with GRANDPA?

Shango says: "The fallen judge agreed to sing because he can hum any tune. He needs to sing for his son, or see the end of his babylonian offspring." GRANDPA COULD DEFINITELY MAKE THAT HAPPEN!


PLAINVIEW FLORIDA, INC
701 BRICKELL AVE., SUITE 1600
MIAMI FL 33131

ARUBA ALOE OF AMERICA, INC
701 BRICKELL AVENUE., Suite 1400
MIAMI FL 33131


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on August 05, 2008, 02:39:17 PM
...and does he play cricket?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on August 05, 2008, 02:51:37 PM
There is a Josh(ua) Posner listed as :

Owner at Aruba Aloe
Director of E-Commerce at Aruba Aloe

He attended The College of Wooster and graduated in 2006.  Just about Natalee's age.

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/4/a96/390

Seems he was also interested in magic.

http://www.wooster.edu/voice/20020920/features_magic.html



Wonder if he played cricket...

http://www.wooster.edu/cricket/

8:41 PM the grey whisper said...
just came back from an out of country location where i could not use the internet without unwanted results. tell me, is the cricket ready to chirp?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 05, 2008, 03:09:45 PM
There is a Josh(ua) Posner listed as :

Owner at Aruba Aloe
Director of E-Commerce at Aruba Aloe

He attended The College of Wooster and graduated in 2006.  Just about Natalee's age.

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/4/a96/390

Seems he was also interested in magic.

http://www.wooster.edu/voice/20020920/features_magic.html


Now that is interesting. Very interesting.

The young age, and the magic and the Aruba Aloe company that's "hidden in PLAIN VIEW".

Two boys. Two fathers.

One boy was late for school, the other boy was on time.

The reminder phone call ringing in the background during Papa sloot's sweating bullets interview in his home.

MAGIC:
the grey whisper said "...the talisman in his hand is running out of charms... the broomsticks are enchanted, but their master may regret the dance now that it has been set..."  Who is the 'master' - GRANDPA POSNR?

So who was calling Paulus on his home phone during his sweating bullets interview? GRANDPA?

Did Paulus go to FL to discuss not ending his babylonian offspring with GRANDPA?

Shango says: "The fallen judge agreed to sing because he can hum any tune. He needs to sing for his son, or see the end of his babylonian offspring." GRANDPA COULD DEFINITELY MAKE THAT HAPPEN!


PLAINVIEW FLORIDA, INC
701 BRICKELL AVE., SUITE 1600
MIAMI FL 33131

ARUBA ALOE OF AMERICA, INC
701 BRICKELL AVENUE., Suite 1400
MIAMI FL 33131

The similarities are interesting, but be aware that Josh, in May 2005, would have just completed his junior year of college.  Older than Joran and would not be going to school on Monday.  I don't even know if Josh Posner was on the island at that time.  I just found this today while searching for Posner and Aruba at that same time.

I don't feel right about accusing this kid of anything just yet.  Don't know enough about him.  I am still looking for more info.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on August 05, 2008, 03:12:06 PM
Poochy…Posner’s son was 45 in 2005…This is how Posner “legally” managed to own a Casino.  Jossy must have known this before he did his article on Posner.

I can’t make everything “fit” with the casinos. Lol…I can’t make anything fit…

Not sure what you are referring to by 75% of Codetalkers.  Could you elaborate please?  TIA

EXCELSIOR CASINO N.V.
Business address J.E. IRAUSQUIN BLVD. 230, NOORD
Legal form LIMITED LIABILITY COMPANY
Name of the company EXCELSIOR CASINO N.V.
Statutory seat ARUBA
Date of incorporation 19 JUNE 1998
Authorized capital ARUBAN FLORINS 100,000.00
Issued capital ARUBAN FLORINS 20,000.00
Paid up capital ARUBAN FLORINS 20,000.00
Fiscal year 01 JANUARY thru 31 DECEMBER
DIRECTORS - AUTHORIZED PERSONS AND CORPORATE BODIES - SUPERVISORY BOARD:
POSNER, WALTER BRETT;
Residing in 9 BANOCKBURN COURT , BANOCKBURN III, U.S.A.
Born in U.S.A., CHICAGO, ILLINOIS on 21 MAY 1960
Nationality AMERICAN
Position MANAGING DIRECTOR
Effective 23 OCTOBER 1998
Authority FULL
OBJECTIVE(S) OF THE COMPANY
TO OPERATE A CASINO AT THE "HOLIDAY IN RESORT".


So Posnr has a son age 45. The son age 45 could easily have a son age 17-25. Interesting.
 
PVDS had one or two cards up his sleeve, they have been played and lost:

#1) one's song was not on the bill = THIS WAS STEVE CROES THE SINGING CARD.  
#2) the other card has been kept hidden = THIS WAS THE BABYLONIAN CARD HELD BY 'HAND HOLDING IT IS DIRTY TOO'.

...SO IS THERE A 3RD PERSON=DirtyHand besides the 2 above? Is #2 above a witness held for his own protection and is the '5th' - the bfriend from earlier in the week?

Or is #2 DirtyHand? (this is all so confusing)  ::MonkeyConfused::

(MUM - 75% of the prose that is - mainly referencing casinos=via terms like gambling, cards, deck, hands, win, lost, cards up sleeve, etc. )



who do we know was brought in, but Dennis Jacobs said that he was never a suspect? somebody that cannot be revealed because it would put teepees at risk (marriages, reputations)

This would be DirtyHand, one of two cards played by PVDS......the music man's song was not on the bill........who does that leave?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 05, 2008, 03:13:51 PM
Group pic which includes Josh Posner.  (last one on right in second row)

http://www.wooster.edu/philosophy/students/photomajors04-05.php



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on August 05, 2008, 03:55:10 PM
Group pic which includes Josh Posner.  (last one on right in second row)

http://www.wooster.edu/philosophy/students/photomajors04-05.php




"DirtyHand is not a child of Babylon"


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on August 05, 2008, 04:36:29 PM
Seek ye DirtyHand and the Fetid Arawak King who wishes to blame the babylonians for the behaviour of lowly minions.
 
Babylon holds the answers,

Why have all forgotten DirtyHand, who has aided son of SlanderFoot?

He holds the key!

DirtyHand holds the key to the secrets of the SlanderFoot Clan,

Shango Says:
June 30th, 2005 at 2:11 am
All Secrets are hidden in Plain View[/b]
Hidden in Plain View:   http://www.juvenilejusticefund.org/documents/childProstitution_summary.pdf

the game, pg 4:  http://www.ca11.uscourts.gov/opinions/ops/200214306.pdf
Both pimps and prostitutes generally referred to their activities as “the game.”






Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on August 05, 2008, 05:13:38 PM
would add from pg 7:

"............entertained members of a municipal police force at his home on at least one occasion,
where they engaged in sexual intercourse with his prostitutes."
http://www.ca11.uscourts.gov/opinions/ops/200214306.pdf



Arawaks play in the small houses of babylon with offspring of the elder
hand holding it dirty too (among other things)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on August 05, 2008, 05:14:20 PM
above is what Babalu was getting at-opening a window overlooking babylon


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 05, 2008, 05:18:08 PM
when Lorenzo was arrested more recently......had pondered whether that had been his first time behind the wheel of the polis car.......the polis must have left the keys in their pants pocket

Considering his private meeting with the judge and his subsequent release with no consequences I wonder about a lot of things.


omg.......auditioning the singing card???!!!

If you are serious, then you have to have the 5th suspect debate. LOL  Because Lorenzo could be the 5th suspect.  Interesting isn't it? 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 05, 2008, 05:19:27 PM
Simian used the word boyfriend, Shango says something else

The maze offers many hidden desires
deflowerings of forbidden fruits
DirtyHand knows
So does the elder

DirtyHand was not seeking pleasure for himself

If it did happen, and NH was not even concious-do you think that Simian would have posted? remember-he's hiding DirtyHand

Are you saying the 5th suspect was Dirty Hand?  Simian did not speak of dirty hand until Shango brought it up.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on August 05, 2008, 05:23:05 PM
PVDS=#5


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 05, 2008, 05:23:34 PM
There is a Josh(ua) Posner listed as :

Owner at Aruba Aloe
Director of E-Commerce at Aruba Aloe

He attended The College of Wooster and graduated in 2006.  Just about Natalee's age.

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/4/a96/390

Seems he was also interested in magic.

http://www.wooster.edu/voice/20020920/features_magic.html



Wonder if he played cricket...

http://www.wooster.edu/cricket/

8:41 PM the grey whisper said...
just came back from an out of country location where i could not use the internet without unwanted results. tell me, is the cricket ready to chirp?


I have always thought this meant was there someone that was about to tell all about what happened and where Natalee was.  I suppose I am wrong...again.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on August 05, 2008, 05:24:58 PM
DirtyHand walked in this house of babylon
he holds the real key (to the house)

where the arawaks meet the childern of the elders to play (the game) in the maze


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 05, 2008, 05:28:51 PM
PVDS=#5

Now, show me where Natalee would be interested in Paulus as a boyfriend.  Please.  Tell me when he had time to host a party?  Tell me who "the others" were. Thanks.

The news media kept saying Steve Croes was the 5th suspect and then changed it to 4th.  The posters on Aruba at that time were whispering about another person that was unnamed.

I feel certain that Mum will debate your ideas on Paulus being the 5th.  I still think Lorenzo was there somewhere, because he was the first person of interest talked about on the internet when everyone else could not get any info.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on August 05, 2008, 06:17:11 PM
PVDS=#5

Now, show me where Natalee would be interested in Paulus as a boyfriend.  Please.  Tell me when he had time to host a party?  Tell me who "the others" were. Thanks.

The news media kept saying Steve Croes was the 5th suspect and then changed it to 4th.  The posters on Aruba at that time were whispering about another person that was unnamed.

I feel certain that Mum will debate your ideas on Paulus being the 5th.  I still think Lorenzo was there somewhere, because he was the first person of interest talked about on the internet when everyone else could not get any info.




the boyfriend from earlier in the week-but whose? can you say whose? can you say whether or not the person was conscious?

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:49 pm
The maze offers many hidden desires
deflowerings of forbidden fruits
DirtyHand knows.
So does the elder.
The lamb is a scapegoat.



from an earlier post:
"On 6-23 MARIAINE CROES said "There is a reasonable suspicion that (Paulus van der Sloot) knows something and is involved in the disappearance." In a statement, Croes called Paulus van der Sloot the fifth suspect in the disappearance of NATALEE. "

CNN
Judge arrested in Aruba case
Fifth suspect in custody after U.S. teen's disappearance
Thursday, June 23, 2005; Posted: 10:01 p.m. EDT (02:01 GMT)
http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/06/23/aruba.holloway/index.html

Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
Father is a suspect of the disappearance.
Posted Jun 23, 3:10 PM


these don't say detained, arrested, or questioned....they say suspect


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on August 05, 2008, 06:18:06 PM
PVDS=#5

Now, show me where Natalee would be interested in Paulus as a boyfriend.  Please.  Tell me when he had time to host a party?  Tell me who "the others" were. Thanks.

The news media kept saying Steve Croes was the 5th suspect and then changed it to 4th.  The posters on Aruba at that time were whispering about another person that was unnamed.

I feel certain that Mum will debate your ideas on Paulus being the 5th.  I still think Lorenzo was there somewhere, because he was the first person of interest talked about on the internet when everyone else could not get any info.




who is DirtyHand?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on August 05, 2008, 06:23:14 PM
PVDS=#5

Now, show me where Natalee would be interested in Paulus as a boyfriend.  Please.  Tell me when he had time to host a party?  Tell me who "the others" were. Thanks.

The news media kept saying Steve Croes was the 5th suspect and then changed it to 4th.  The posters on Aruba at that time were whispering about another person that was unnamed.

I feel certain that Mum will debate your ideas on Paulus being the 5th.  I still think Lorenzo was there somewhere, because he was the first person of interest talked about on the internet when everyone else could not get any info.





almost like he was "kept hidden"

come to think of it, when Beth let his name slip out on Greta there were grumblings from Aruba......teepees swaying


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on August 05, 2008, 06:27:12 PM
so PVDS played two cards, one's song was not on the bill......other was kept hidden


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 05, 2008, 07:47:28 PM
so PVDS played two cards, one's song was not on the bill......other was kept hidden

I would think Steve Croes would be the one not on the bill instead of the hidden card.  I have forgotten more than I knew about this stuff.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on August 05, 2008, 09:32:28 PM
PVDS=#5

PVDS = #5 based on news we heard.

There could be another #5 we don't know about, making Paulus #6...

Maybe Lorenzo was the babylonian card that was played. and HE knows who the real DirtyHand is - who was discovered, and had to go back to Babylon anonymously.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Kermit on August 05, 2008, 09:34:25 PM
Remember that there was an organized cover-up to mis-lead and mis-direct on the blogs, therefore you must realize that some things were placed/said in order to send ya on a wild goose-chase.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 05, 2008, 09:35:18 PM
While Shango is composing this post:

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:12 pm
Cowboys must behave in Indian territory
The arawaks need pemmican, they have been without wampum, 1 Moon
The Arawaks keep the singing card
One singing Babylonian and two Hindu chanters are enough
His lordships presence guarantees a trio
The key to edens door did not exist
The refrain has already begun


Simian provides this defense of the system:

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:10 pm
The system is built so that innocent are always protected. One shred of doubt is enough to thrown a case out.

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:11 pm
The system is built so that the innocent are always protected. One shred of doubt is enough to thrown a case out.



Shango responds with:

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:14 pm
Simian your Dopple has resumed position
Bird on the wire


No one has posted as Simian during this time.  We have often thought Shango's reference to Dopple (short for doppleganger) meant someone else posting as Simian.  But...the actual definition is a ghostly double or counterpart of a living person.  I believe Shango was referring to whoever it was that was telling Simian what to say.

Simian does not post again until 9:27 pm.  For over five hours Shango holds the attention of audience for the early evening hours.  Could Simian be in a "strategy session" during this time?

When Simian does return he resumes posting with this:

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:27 pm
The elder had to come clean. He knows what damaged he had caused. The Simian said to not shake the wire, ‘cause the bird would fly away.
The Simian would never pose. Go back and read what the Simian wrote. The Babylonians knows what happened, but they are up in arms. The gamblers knew the girl.


Shango counters with this:

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:30 pm
Who knows what song the elder will sing

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:31 pm
The shivas knew the girl
the arawaks new the girl
and the babylonians still know the girl


Shango posts a few more times and then Simian comes back with:

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:36 pm
All that the gamblers knew was written down.
They knew the girl. She spent her nights at their tables.


Then Shango:

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:43 pm
Did the babylonians like to make movies?
From the tears, a new river will spring forth….


I believe these two were posting to each other in this sequence.  I know some have wondered what this last post from Shango meant.  The idea of porn videos has been discussed.  Given this possible exchange between Simian and Shango I believe this may have more to do with the casino security tapes.  Paulus had to come clean?  She spent her nights at their table?  Simian is holding a carrot on a stick.  Is Shango telling Simian that he knows what Simian is talking about?  Simian would not be able to say what the evidence was and Shango is letting him know that he knows what it is?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on August 05, 2008, 09:35:40 PM
so PVDS played two cards, one's song was not on the bill......other was kept hidden

I would think Steve Croes would be the one not on the bill instead of the hidden card.  I have forgotten more than I knew about this stuff.

I agree - SCroes is the 'music man' and his song was not on the bill. That means that all the other 'songs' were on the bill. Who's bill would that be? Who else plays the orchestra?

Hidden card is just that - hidden!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on August 05, 2008, 09:54:08 PM
PVDS=#5

PVDS = #5 based on news we heard.

There could be another #5 we don't know about, making Paulus #6...

Maybe Lorenzo was the babylonian card that was played. and HE knows who the real DirtyHand is - who was discovered, and had to go back to Babylon anonymously.


why can't he be DirtyHand?

dirty hand=Arawaks go to small houses of babylon to play (the "game") with offspring of the elders

Shango said his power is that he can break the alibi.......and that his testimony jeopardizes many arawak marriages


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 05, 2008, 10:59:03 PM
If Dirty Hand is not an Arawak or a child of Babylon...then what is he?  Where does Paulus fit?  As usual we have no definitive idea who or what is an Arawak or what is Babylon.  Without settling on a definition and agreeing on said definition of both Arawak and Babylonian/Babylon we can not move past this point.  They led us all on a wild goose chase.  That was the purpose of Simian. He had to get the heat of his cousin, Steve Croes.  He had to lead us past the 4th person, since that was Steve.  It was the only way to get the posters to stop talking about him.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: finngirl on August 06, 2008, 12:02:45 AM

I've hesitated to post this for the longest time
but cousins are currently under discussion, so:

part of the reason finbar drifted away
was disappointment that his research
re AG = simian was disregarded ...
even after he posted her geneaology links
which she herself had made public long ago

fin came to his conclusion re AG 2 years ago
w/o even considering the geneaology angle at that time

his more recent research into the family tree
appeared to show that AG/SGC = cousins ...
sharing a grandmother IIRC

he researched the links and found many familiar names:
Solognier/Solagnier
Oduber
Maduro
Lampe
and a Carlos Guillermo Bareno (et tu, Guillermo?)

fin shared some of this w/ one other poster here AFAIK

he posted the name Solognier/Solagnier
hoping that others here would use the links
and come to the same result he had found

but the tide of research turned toward this Armin (sp?) guy
and away from AG

there was one final name fin ran into ...
one of the most prominent names in this case ...
which I cannot post w/o violating his trust

perhaps fin will return someday
and take up the cause again



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on August 06, 2008, 12:34:05 AM
PVDS=#5

PVDS = #5 based on news we heard.

There could be another #5 we don't know about, making Paulus #6...

Maybe Lorenzo was the babylonian card that was played. and HE knows who the real DirtyHand is - who was discovered, and had to go back to Babylon anonymously.


why can't he be DirtyHand?

dirty hand=Arawaks go to small houses of babylon to play (the "game") with offspring of the elders

Shango said his power is that he can break the alibi.......and that his testimony jeopardizes many arawak marriages

Arawaks are scared of Dirty Hand. Babylon is scared of Dirty Hand. Paulus? Deutekom? I highly doubt it.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:54 pm
The Arawaks are not going to sacrifice a scapegoat. Babylon needs to allow one sacrifice to keep DirtyHand hidden. Babylon scared of DirtyHand. Arawaks scared of DirtyHand. If sacrifice is made, teepees are safe, villagers and cowboys happy. If DirtyHand discovered, House of Babylon falls, Teepees crushed under great house


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on August 06, 2008, 12:45:14 AM
If Dirty Hand is not an Arawak or a child of Babylon...then what is he?  Where does Paulus fit?  As usual we have no definitive idea who or what is an Arawak or what is Babylon.  Without settling on a definition and agreeing on said definition of both Arawak and Babylonian/Babylon we can not move past this point.  They led us all on a wild goose chase.  That was the purpose of Simian. He had to get the heat of his cousin, Steve Croes.  He had to lead us past the 4th person, since that was Steve.  It was the only way to get the posters to stop talking about him.
In my opinion, Paulus is just the father of a big fat liar. And a scared one at that. He's a harmless, nervous, sweaty wreck. Who in their right mind would be 'scared' of him enough to flee Aruba? C'mon now. That is ludicrous. 

Somebody scared the bejeebers out of those gamblers that fled Aruba. Watch who shows up to post whenever I mention this - I've posted this sentence so many times already I enjoy watching who flocks to the boards to insist Paulus is someone to be skeered of. Geesh already. A fallen Judge - with a son nobody would be proud of.

If you take the entire German population of men over 40, with the way their hairline recedes, and stick a pair of glasses on them, they would look exactly like the guy who everybody thinks is Paulus at the black jack table. The guy even looks like one of the Netherland 'Princes' we've also mentioned on this thread.

Paulus? Na, not afraid of him. He can sing any song... But a mob owning Ca$ino owner? Yeah, I'd be afraid of him if I were a Sloot. A gun weilding drug lord on Aruba to launder some drug $? Yeah, I'd be afraid of him too.
 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on August 06, 2008, 07:06:08 AM

I've hesitated to post this for the longest time
but cousins are currently under discussion, so:

part of the reason finbar drifted away
was disappointment that his research
re AG = simian was disregarded ...
even after he posted her geneaology links
which she herself had made public long ago

fin came to his conclusion re AG 2 years ago
w/o even considering the geneaology angle at that time

his more recent research into the family tree
appeared to show that AG/SGC = cousins ...
sharing a grandmother IIRC

he researched the links and found many familiar names:
Solognier/Solagnier
Oduber
Maduro
Lampe
and a Carlos Guillermo Bareno (et tu, Guillermo?)

fin shared some of this w/ one other poster here AFAIK

he posted the name Solognier/Solagnier
hoping that others here would use the links
and come to the same result he had found

but the tide of research turned toward this Armin (sp?) guy
and away from AG

there was one final name fin ran into ...
one of the most prominent names in this case ...
which I cannot post w/o violating his trust

perhaps fin will return someday
and take up the cause again




 Finbar’s posts…and the last one I quoted…Some interesting names on Finbar's list... ::MonkeyWink::

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?action=profile;u=3806;sa=showPosts


Reply #533 on: April 22, 2008, 12:17:33 AM »

Many vowels are placed upon my lips that never crossed.

I said, 'shake the tree and see who falls out. It may lead to the fifth.

Besides, I never laid claim that the Crows monkey would fall from it(but it might too). Maybe another related monkey.

Shake this...
http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/v/r/i/Georgina-F-Vrieswijk/index.html

Many Crows in that tree. AG. Maduro, Solagnier, de Wit, Arends, Dijkhoff, Eman, Gomez, Kelly, Koch, LACLE, Lampe, Tromp, ODUBER, and my fave...







VAN DER SLOOT.


Maybe the O name was dropped in confidence, but the last was not, I bet.

Maybe exposing personal and sensitive insurance search results leaves some in a dilemma of legalities. Not to mention what might fall from the family tree.

Small island. Closed community. Many inter-related.

Ever ponder the phrase, "Steve Croes will not be sacrificed"? Wonder why not?

The odds that they are not related is slim. No one on the planet can be more than a 52nd cousin, to another.

Most likely first or second cousins at the most.

On an island of 70,000 that is largely closed for a large period of time leaves - cousins.

Ok, now you are going to tell me that Sloot is a common name? LOL.

This group is a bunch of ANGELS! TEAM work like this will bring forth many answers.

We need a name. That's it! The ANGEL TEAM!


Fin






Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on August 06, 2008, 07:35:49 AM
PVDS=#5

PVDS = #5 based on news we heard.

There could be another #5 we don't know about, making Paulus #6...

Maybe Lorenzo was the babylonian card that was played. and HE knows who the real DirtyHand is - who was discovered, and had to go back to Babylon anonymously.


why can't he be DirtyHand?

dirty hand=Arawaks go to small houses of babylon to play (the "game") with offspring of the elders

Shango said his power is that he can break the alibi.......and that his testimony jeopardizes many arawak marriages

My path to Lorenzo van Gijn/Rijn...


From Kermit…
The justices on the Curacao bench

mw. mr. M.K. Asscheman-Versluis (since august 1st 1999)
mr. J. de Boer august 1st 1998
@ mr. R.A. Th. M. Dekkers after 2004 because at that time he was judge in The Hague
mr. W. Foppen (since august 1st 1999)
mr. L. van Gijn august 1st 2000


Reply #566 on: March 08, 2008, 10:35:52 PM » Caps

Lawyers should never ask a Nederlands grandma a question if they aren't prepared for the answer.

In a trial, Jorg the prosecuting attorney called his first witness, a grandmotherly, elderly woman to the stand. He approached her and asked, 'Mrs. Anita, do you know me?' She responded, 'Why, yes, I do know you, Mr. Jorg. I've known you since you we re a boy, and frankly, you've been a big disappointment to me. You lie, you cheat on your wife, and you manipulate people and talk about them behind their backs. You think you're a big shot when you haven't the brains to realize you'll never amount to anything more than a two-bit paper pusher. Yes, I know you.'

The the lawyer was stunned. Not knowing what else to do, he pointed across the room and asked, 'Mrs. Anita, do you know the defense attorney?'

She again replied, 'Why yes, I do. I've known Mr. Sloot since he was a
youngster, too. He's lazy, bigoted, and he has a drinking problem. He can't build a normal relationship with anyone, and his law practice is one of the worst in the entire Amsterdam Area. Not to mention he cheated on his wife with three different women. One of them was your wife. Yes, I know him.'

The defense attorney nearly died.

The judge asked both counselors to approach the bench and, in a very quiet voice, said, 'If either of you idiots asks her if she knows me, I'll send you both to the electric chair.'

Shango says Guess who the Judge is

LOL

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2680.msg363061#msg363061


Reply #793 on: March 09, 2008, 05:18:32 PM Finbar

Mr. L. van Gijin (August 1st 2000)

CAPS, is the above lawyer story true?


Fin

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2680.780

Reply #1205 on: April 05, 2008, 10:17:07 AM » Mum

Snipped…
SS – In response to your post yesterday on Lorenzo van Rijn/Gijn/Geijn…see post 1610 on the first link…americaninaruba called him Geijn, Jossy called him Gijn all the others papers called him Rijn  and we have Dutch owned apartments by van Dijk who Caps think is related to Paulus or Anita. Then we have a judge in Curacao called mr. L. van Gijn august 1st 2000, page 8 of this thread.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2733.msg371192#msg371192


Reply #3058 on: March 04, 2008, 04:23:26 AM » Mum   
 
"The justices on the Aruban bench:

mr. J.S. Kuiperdal ...deceased...info in the thread somewhere...judge in the security guards cases.

The justices on the Curacao bench

From  previous posts back on page 74...coincidence???

mr. L. van Gijn august 1st 2000

Judge sorry the translated page didn't copy
Rechter Leo van Gijn  wilde vooral van de bewindsman en het Departement van Luchtvaart horen waarom het eerste artikel van de verleende vergunning alle ruimte biedt aan de luchtvaartmaatschappij

Reply #1468 on: January 29, 2008, 01:53:32 PM »   Reply with quote
 
I knew I'd seen it...Jossy used Gijn...the other paper used Rijn...From what I've seen the Gijn family is influential and has a history in The Netherlands...

#471 on: June 21, 2007, 11:39:26 AM » Quote 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.diario-aruba.com/2007/6/21/


Quote
Cas yena cu camara, yen di cacho brabo y rondona cu prikkel draad…
LORENZO VAN GIJN DETENI PA PLANTACION GRANDI
DI MARIHUANA NA SAVANETA

ORANJESTAD(AAN):Lorenzo van Gijn  no ta un desconoci di polis. Den e bishitanan cu e Team Bijzondere Projecten a haci na diferente lugar, su cas no tabata un excepcion.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1952.3040


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on August 06, 2008, 07:55:04 AM

I've hesitated to post this for the longest time
but cousins are currently under discussion, so:

part of the reason finbar drifted away
was disappointment that his research
re AG = simian was disregarded ...
even after he posted her geneaology links
which she herself had made public long ago

fin came to his conclusion re AG 2 years ago
w/o even considering the geneaology angle at that time

his more recent research into the family tree
appeared to show that AG/SGC = cousins ...
sharing a grandmother IIRC

he researched the links and found many familiar names:
Solognier/Solagnier
Oduber
Maduro
Lampe
and a Carlos Guillermo Bareno (et tu, Guillermo?)

fin shared some of this w/ one other poster here AFAIK

he posted the name Solognier/Solagnier
hoping that others here would use the links
and come to the same result he had found

but the tide of research turned toward this Armin (sp?) guy
and away from AG

there was one final name fin ran into ...
one of the most prominent names in this case ...
which I cannot post w/o violating his trust

perhaps fin will return someday
and take up the cause again




Finngirl…I wish Finbar would come back and discuss the Simian/Ag connection.

I followed vms’ path to Armin and when I needed further explanation she explained. I went to RWV as she said and there it was. From vms’ posts and research I am positive Armin is Simian/Merian. Discussion begins on page 23 of thread 3.

Reply #539 on: April 22, 2008, 08:03:44 AM vms

Good morning, Mum.

I'm trying to connect dots.   



If you go here and click on Merian Ernest's name, you will see his email address.

Snipped…

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2787.520


You can no longer click on the name and get the email addy, but when this was posted you could. If something was overlooked…I would gladly reconsider....


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on August 06, 2008, 08:30:13 AM
Remember that there was an organized cover-up to mis-lead and mis-direct on the blogs, therefore you must realize that some things were placed/said in order to send ya on a wild goose-chase.



Hi Kermit…Nice to see you…My thoughts on this…And I am still deciding on a path.

1…There never was a 5th. Suspect…He was created to take us away from Joran. All misinformation from Simian/Merian.

2…Freddy is the 5th. Suspect…But the 5th. is really not Freddy Alexander Zedan Arambatzis?  My choices…

A…GVC…His father walked in all houses and they left Aruba immediately after his arrest. The family hails from Breda…Orange regal visage area. GVC had his own pillows in jail. Known contact with Natalee. Reported phone call on June 9th and his strange reaction. His father threaten to sue ALE around May 9th. Reported 2nd arrest when Guido was arrested a couple of weeks later never happened.

Now my controversial, out of the box one…

B…David Fisiitalia...ISA friend of Joran.  American, mother worked for US Customs. Appears to no longer be on Aruba. David is now a PO Box in Miami. Joran comes out and names this kid in his book. Why? Because Joran is arrogant or it is his trump card. Both Joran and Paulus make reference to the FBI in their PVs. Multiple posts about the FBI being on the case from day 1. Deepak’s “FBI protected witness”. This would also explain Simian’s about face. And some thoughts that Shango had ties to the FBI.

As I said...still deciding a path, but this is where I am at right now...subject to change...
::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on August 06, 2008, 08:38:55 AM
While Shango is composing this post:

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:12 pm
Cowboys must behave in Indian territory
The arawaks need pemmican, they have been without wampum, 1 Moon
The Arawaks keep the singing card
One singing Babylonian and two Hindu chanters are enough
His lordships presence guarantees a trio
The key to edens door did not exist
The refrain has already begun


Simian provides this defense of the system:

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:10 pm
The system is built so that innocent are always protected. One shred of doubt is enough to thrown a case out.

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:11 pm
The system is built so that the innocent are always protected. One shred of doubt is enough to thrown a case out.



Shango responds with:

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:14 pm
Simian your Dopple has resumed position
Bird on the wire


No one has posted as Simian during this time.  We have often thought Shango's reference to Dopple (short for doppleganger) meant someone else posting as Simian.  But...the actual definition is a ghostly double or counterpart of a living person.  I believe Shango was referring to whoever it was that was telling Simian what to say.

Simian does not post again until 9:27 pm.  For over five hours Shango holds the attention of audience for the early evening hours.  Could Simian be in a "strategy session" during this time?

When Simian does return he resumes posting with this:

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:27 pm
The elder had to come clean. He knows what damaged he had caused. The Simian said to not shake the wire, ‘cause the bird would fly away.
The Simian would never pose. Go back and read what the Simian wrote. The Babylonians knows what happened, but they are up in arms. The gamblers knew the girl.


Shango counters with this:

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:30 pm
Who knows what song the elder will sing

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:31 pm
The shivas knew the girl
the arawaks new the girl
and the babylonians still know the girl


Shango posts a few more times and then Simian comes back with:

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:36 pm
All that the gamblers knew was written down.
They knew the girl. She spent her nights at their tables.


Then Shango:

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:43 pm
Did the babylonians like to make movies?
From the tears, a new river will spring forth….


I believe these two were posting to each other in this sequence.  I know some have wondered what this last post from Shango meant.  The idea of porn videos has been discussed.  Given this possible exchange between Simian and Shango I believe this may have more to do with the casino security tapes.  Paulus had to come clean?  She spent her nights at their table?  Simian is holding a carrot on a stick.  Is Shango telling Simian that he knows what Simian is talking about?  Simian would not be able to say what the evidence was and Shango is letting him know that he knows what it is?


The Security tapes...GVC's Daddy was in charge of the Holiday Inn's.  Conflicting reports. He was and he wasn't. It was also posted that the senior van Cromvoirt was also questioned. Posner was angry that some footage was released to ABC. Surely this wasn't one of his employees? If it was GVC's Daddy, what purpose did it serve?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on August 06, 2008, 09:07:05 AM

Finngirl…I am still undecided on ag…one sticking point is van der Straten’s son from your “Remember/Forget” thread.

On June 6th. FP posts…according to many Arubans, Natalee was a wild run away. And then this…Similar posts followed…

John on June 7th, 2005 3:15 pm
I want to reply to all the messages that are too negative for Aruba. American Girls go to Aruba, because they see Aruba as a Spring Break Paradise. All the women are feeling attracted to the Arubian men. The American woman are really hot and will have allot of sex when they are on vacation. Nobody has seen Nathalee being forced to enter with those boys in the car. I think she’s having a big problem home with her family, and want to get a away. In her last year book she wrote something about discorvering the world. Maybe she too a boat to Venezuela. I hope it’s so and if it’s so, THE ARUBIAN POPULATION expect an official sorry from the news and the US. Or can it be that the Stepmother, Mother, Stepfather. Father are playing with the evidence to cash an Insurance check? Come on, they didn’t put a higher reward than the 10.000 Dollars? The family thinks that money can buy something, they are playing with the press and the name of Aruba. But the famiy should know that MONEY CAN’T BUY LOVE!




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 06, 2008, 09:25:54 AM

I've hesitated to post this for the longest time
but cousins are currently under discussion, so:

part of the reason finbar drifted away
was disappointment that his research
re AG = simian was disregarded ...
even after he posted her geneaology links
which she herself had made public long ago

fin came to his conclusion re AG 2 years ago
w/o even considering the geneaology angle at that time

his more recent research into the family tree
appeared to show that AG/SGC = cousins ...
sharing a grandmother IIRC

he researched the links and found many familiar names:
Solognier/Solagnier
Oduber
Maduro
Lampe
and a Carlos Guillermo Bareno (et tu, Guillermo?)

fin shared some of this w/ one other poster here AFAIK

he posted the name Solognier/Solagnier
hoping that others here would use the links
and come to the same result he had found

but the tide of research turned toward this Armin (sp?) guy
and away from AG

there was one final name fin ran into ...
one of the most prominent names in this case ...
which I cannot post w/o violating his trust

perhaps fin will return someday
and take up the cause again



You should tell Fin that his research was NOT disregarded at all.  It only seemed that way.  It was used to verify info on Armin.  I have looked at his genealogy of the Croes family by using his work quite often.  In fact, Fin led me to a significant fact that got me back in contact with AG again...so tell Fin all was not in vain there.

After Armin was discovered to be our Simian/Merian poster several of us tracked his relatives by using Fin's work to prove he was indeed related to Steve Croes. I didn't do all the work on this so I have to stop at that because all I did was get in touch with AG and ask about her age and how it related to her taking a tour of KIA at the time.  It would have made her only 11 years old and she was too young, but she told me who was old enough and who was related.  She did not lie to me, because I could use Fin's work to check it out.  She even told me that yes, they share grandmothers and that she never had dealings with that side of the family except through her grandmother.  I have gotten to know her much better since and I see where her loyalty is and why she was so upset with everyone.  I am not saying that I totally trust her answers but after talking to her and knowing who Simian really is and knowing the email address of Simian in relation to the IP addresses I can say with certainty that AG was not Simian.  She was however another poster, but I was not given permission to reveal that name and I won't betray that trust.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 06, 2008, 09:37:24 AM
I should also add that I would not say this if I were not sure of what I speak.  Armin was supposed to distract everyone away from Checkme's information.  That was the original reason he showed up.  His cousin, Steve Croes, was about to be roasted in this case because he was dumb enough or paid enough to insert himself into this mess.  Simian's was just dropping in to check on what was being said...you can see that by his first statements.   He was commenting on what the conversation  was talking place at the time.

He did not jump out and become cryptic until it appeared that everyone was ready to hang Steve Croes.  That is when he really began to get upset.  Notice his posting times and the days of the week. Think about where he works and his weekend job too.  You can see the pattern.  But then again, what do I know?  I could be completely wrong here, but I have done my homework...doesn't mean I will make an "A".



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 06, 2008, 10:38:26 AM
Uh oh!  Alone again.  ::MonkeyShocked::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on August 06, 2008, 11:28:03 AM
There is a Josh(ua) Posner listed as :

Owner at Aruba Aloe
Director of E-Commerce at Aruba Aloe

He attended The College of Wooster and graduated in 2006.  Just about Natalee's age.

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/4/a96/390

Seems he was also interested in magic.

http://www.wooster.edu/voice/20020920/features_magic.html



Hear Josh "read" his report on Aloe Vera:

http://jbreitenbuch.wooster.edu/~jonb/itredo/files/biology_of_tropics_npr/Josh_Posner.mp3




Joran's 9/6 PV:

"In the Sportsbar I also saw two acquaintances who were watching baseball. I greeted my two acquaitances, told them I was doing fine as well and that I would go to CnC's that night. My two acquaintances are named "Luis" and "Joshua". I frequently meet them at CnC's. The last name of Luis is "Betancourt". I don't know the last name of Joshua. Luis Betancourt is Venezualian and according to me Joshua is Colombian, but I'm not sure about that."  

So Joran has no clue what Joshua's last name is? Or what Nationality he is?

Highly doubt it.

Satish's PV states Deepak met a boy "I don't know his name"...

IMHO they are all protecting this witness. Joran and his big mouth gave the first name only. JOSHUA. Deepak and Satish were "somewhat" smart enough to not mention the name at all.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on August 06, 2008, 11:30:07 AM
Uh oh!  Alone again.  ::MonkeyShocked::

Mornin' Lala'sMom !  ::MonkeyWink::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 06, 2008, 11:44:51 AM
Hi Poochy!
Yes, Joran has a hard time remembering certain details. LOL  He must get that from Daddy-O.

So what is the significance of this Joshua guy?  Tell me what you think it means?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 06, 2008, 12:16:00 PM

I've hesitated to post this for the longest time
but cousins are currently under discussion, so:

part of the reason finbar drifted away
was disappointment that his research
re AG = simian was disregarded ...
even after he posted her geneaology links
which she herself had made public long ago

fin came to his conclusion re AG 2 years ago
w/o even considering the geneaology angle at that time

his more recent research into the family tree
appeared to show that AG/SGC = cousins ...
sharing a grandmother IIRC

he researched the links and found many familiar names:
Solognier/Solagnier
Oduber
Maduro
Lampe
and a Carlos Guillermo Bareno (et tu, Guillermo?)

fin shared some of this w/ one other poster here AFAIK

he posted the name Solognier/Solagnier
hoping that others here would use the links
and come to the same result he had found

but the tide of research turned toward this Armin (sp?) guy
and away from AG

there was one final name fin ran into ...
one of the most prominent names in this case ...
which I cannot post w/o violating his trust

perhaps fin will return someday
and take up the cause again



I missed many of the discussions about AG = simian during that time.  Any info you have on this that you can post, I would love to see.

Sorry finbar left.  We need all the brain power we can get if we are going to juice up these discussions again.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on August 06, 2008, 12:37:45 PM
Hi Poochy!
Yes, Joran has a hard time remembering certain details. LOL  He must get that from Daddy-O.

So what is the significance of this Joshua guy?  Tell me what you think it means?

Out of the horses mouth, Joran states that before he went to C&C that fateful night he ran into Joshua at the HI sports bar. There he tells Joshua he's going to C&C and some of the girls are going also. Joran says Joshua frequents C&C. The fact that Joshua was hanging around the sports bar, imho, means he must have run into the MBers on several occasions. Joshua would be young and rich enough to afford buying a nice piece of jewlery...So is this Joshua Posnr who was hanging out at grandpa's sports bar? If so, he'd know all the gamblers including Guido et al. Or is this another Joshua? Dunno.

In Satish's 05/31/2005 WITNESS Statement he says they (he, deepak, Joran) hung out all night together in C&C. In other statements Satish is asked several times if only the three of them left C&C (Satish, Joran, Natalee) to which he replied 'yes', only the 3 of us left. That implies to me Deepak was not with them when they 'left' - so why not? They arrive less than 30 min before closing and he is bored? Deepak says he was looking around for them, went to the rest room, then left and was waiting by his car because Satish had the keys. Why did Satish have the keys? Did Deepak give them to him as he grabbed a ride home with someone else? Deepak took another leak on the side of the road. All this sounds to me that Deepak was trying to make an alibi for wherever he was - it was clearly not inside C&C.

In Satish's 06/11/2005  statement he says " I saw that my brother was talking to a boy. The boy with whom my brother was talking I know by face only, I do not know his name. I had seen him in Carlos & Charlies before....My brother stayed behind because he was talking to this boy.

STAYED BEHIND -BEHIND WHERE? I THOUGHT DEEPAK WAS OUT BY HIS CAR WAITING FOR THE 3 TO ARRIVE... ??? (I'll save this for another discussion)

More from Satish 06/11/05 statement: "...According to me I [Satish] had stood alone for a while. "...Joran came over to me with the girl and told me that the bar had closed...We, Joran, the girl and myself, had walked over to another bar where we had earlier bought the Yard's. I had not seen my brother anymore. I saw that Joran and the girl were about to drink a shot. At that point I received a "missed call". I did not hear the phone but felt that I was being called, this was because I had set my mobile phone to vibrate."

But in Deepak's 06/11/2005 statement, Deepak says Joran talked to a mystery boy: "When we got inside we walked to the bar. At the bar Joran talked to a boy I know by face only. He had bought a drink for him and the boy."

Deepak also states he talked to a mystery friend:  "Then they [Joran and Natalee] stayed and talked to each other. I didn't hear the conversation, because at that moment a friend of mine came over to talk to me. I had turned around and talked to my friend. After a while I turned around and noticed that Satish, Joran and the girl Natalee were not there any more where I had last seen them standing."

So we have two mystery guys - one 'boy' talking to joran, and one 'friend' talking to Deepak, and Satish knows who neither one is or does he? Maybe he doesn't want to acknowledge who they were.  Deepak says he loses Joran/Satish/Natalee inside C&C. Satish says he loses his brother inside C&C. Interesting.

Back to this mystery guy...not sure if it was Steve Croes or Joshua Posnr or another person based on Satish 06/10/2005 statement "My brother [Deepak] has also told me that Steve was also in Carlos & Charlies that night. My brother also told me that Steve also had seen us coming out of Carlos & Charlies with the girl Natalee. [this was in the statement that was all about SCroes, providing rides back to the HI, then seeing Natalee fall out of the car, and then seeing them all on the beach.

My guess is Joshua was there at C&C that night. And Joran bought him a drink at C&C. And grandpa threatened anybody who even mentioned his presence there.

If Joran needed help calling anybody, it would be someone who does this for a 'living', a "money collector of sorts", who causes consequences if they don't pay up - get my drift? Who else but a grandson with grandpa connections? 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on August 06, 2008, 01:30:02 PM
Interesting thoughts on Joshua, Poochy.  I  have always thought that the Columbian and Venezuelan were Jaime and Freddy. Joran always hung around the Holiday Inn with them and always went to C&Cs with them. He went out with Deepak and Satish about once a week, he said. It would have been highly unusual for him to have gone out with them two nights in a row.

There is a statement out there somewhere, that Rob and I both remember, from Nadira saying that Satish never went out with them. We have both searched and have not found it.

Your thoughts on Joshua could fit into my theory on David Fisiitalia. Ernesto could even fit in. I just haven’t been able to work out why Joran would use a fictional name like David Fisiitalia in his book. Obviously not a common name…and it appears his mother’s maiden name is Weber. Hmmm! Does anyone else remember confusion over the name Wever and Weber early on. There is another David Fisiitalia, facebook or myspace and he doesn’t seem to fit either, not ISA age, young father IIRC??


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 06, 2008, 01:35:49 PM
Hi Poochy!
Yes, Joran has a hard time remembering certain details. LOL  He must get that from Daddy-O.

So what is the significance of this Joshua guy?  Tell me what you think it means?

Out of the horses mouth, Joran states that before he went to C&C that fateful night he ran into Joshua at the HI sports bar. There he tells Joshua he's going to C&C and some of the girls are going also. Joran says Joshua frequents C&C. The fact that Joshua was hanging around the sports bar, imho, means he must have run into the MBers on several occasions. Joshua would be young and rich enough to afford buying a nice piece of jewlery...So is this Joshua Posnr who was hanging out at grandpa's sports bar? If so, he'd know all the gamblers including Guido et al. Or is this another Joshua? Dunno.


Before this goes much further...I have no indication that Joshua Posner is related to Michael Posner.  From what I can find so far it appears that he is related to Louis/Luis Posner in some way.  If anyone knows if brothers Louis and Israel Posner are related to Michael Posner I would love to see where that connection is.  I have no idea if they are related.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 06, 2008, 02:25:59 PM
Apparently this is a Luis Posner, not a very old guy, who played in some type of Ping Pong event recently in Aruba.

http://www.sportsaruba.com/content/view/1326/42/


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on August 06, 2008, 02:45:10 PM
Interesting thoughts on Joshua, Poochy.  I  have always thought that the Columbian and Venezuelan were Jaime and Freddy. Joran always hung around the Holiday Inn with them and always went to C&Cs with them. He went out with Deepak and Satish about once a week, he said. It would have been highly unusual for him to have gone out with them two nights in a row.

There is a statement out there somewhere, that Rob and I both remember, from Nadira saying that Satish never went out with them. We have both searched and have not found it.

Your thoughts on Joshua could fit into my theory on David Fisiitalia. Ernesto could even fit in. I just haven’t been able to work out why Joran would use a fictional name like David Fisiitalia in his book. Obviously not a common name…and it appears his mother’s maiden name is Weber. Hmmm! Does anyone else remember confusion over the name Wever and Weber early on. There is another David Fisiitalia, facebook or myspace and he doesn’t seem to fit either, not ISA age, young father IIRC??


Jaime's statement puts him and his father at the HI on the night Joran and Natalee were at C&C. But so was 'Joshua' - sitting at the sports bar. Was it turning into a father and son gambling/drinking evening? Who knows. But other sons and fathers were there also, playing in the tournement.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on August 06, 2008, 03:22:38 PM
Apparently this is a Luis Posner, not a very old guy, who played in some type of Ping Pong event recently in Aruba.

http://www.sportsaruba.com/content/view/1326/42/



Truthseeker…SM search results for Louis Posner. There is a recent post, July with pics and many differing discussions. Sorry I can’t help you check it out more today. Confusion with Michael Florida connections, as Sharon posts there was a wealthy Victor Posner that died in 2002.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?action=search2




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on August 06, 2008, 03:25:18 PM
Interesting thoughts on Joshua, Poochy.  I  have always thought that the Columbian and Venezuelan were Jaime and Freddy. Joran always hung around the Holiday Inn with them and always went to C&Cs with them. He went out with Deepak and Satish about once a week, he said. It would have been highly unusual for him to have gone out with them two nights in a row.

There is a statement out there somewhere, that Rob and I both remember, from Nadira saying that Satish never went out with them. We have both searched and have not found it.

Your thoughts on Joshua could fit into my theory on David Fisiitalia. Ernesto could even fit in. I just haven’t been able to work out why Joran would use a fictional name like David Fisiitalia in his book. Obviously not a common name…and it appears his mother’s maiden name is Weber. Hmmm! Does anyone else remember confusion over the name Wever and Weber early on. There is another David Fisiitalia, facebook or myspace and he doesn’t seem to fit either, not ISA age, young father IIRC??


Jaime's statement puts him and his father at the HI on the night Joran and Natalee were at C&C. But so was 'Joshua' - sitting at the sports bar. Was it turning into a father and son gambling/drinking evening? Who knows. But other sons and fathers were there also, playing in the tournement.


Poochy…I think in his PV, Jaime said his Dad worked at the Wyndham, and he picks him up at 11PM…wonder what time he dropped him off? He said Joran called him at 4PM on 5/29.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 06, 2008, 03:28:07 PM
Why did it take until June 11 to begin the Joshua was in the house comments?  What had transpired at this time that was necessary for this Joshua person to be mentioned? A red herring perhaps?  Partial truth? 

Such as "Deepak came with 2 dawgs and buried her near the fisherman huts".  Totally made up and fictional happening based on the way Joran wanted the story to go. 

I can't make any connections on Michael Posner and Joshua either, but that does not mean it isn't so.  We should keep looking.

Truthseeker, I will look for the AG is Simian stuff if you really want to go there again. I will find it an post it if no one else does.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 06, 2008, 03:48:57 PM
I am going to post as much info as I can find from the last discussion of Arubagirl and Simian and the genealogy of it all.  It may take me several hours, please bear with me.  I have to search through a lot of posts and our on going index of Shango.  Gosh!  I am so behind on this stuff.  I will be glad when winter gets here so I can just sit and work on it and get it organized.   Here goes:

SS

Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
« Reply #3715 on: March 21, 2008, 09:16:41 PM »
   
This is the cryptic information that Fin gave us about the ancestral tree of the fifth suspect. The names in the genealogy tree seemed to point toward Steve Croes and his uncle/neighbor Rufo Solognier.  There are several words in the cryptic clues that still have no meaning, including ex-monkey. The genealogy data that was found is very old with many generations missing between the recorded data and present family members. There was also information found about the connection between Alex Salangier and Jossy Mansur regardling the illegal tobacco and drug smuggling.

http://www.publicintegrity.org/Report.aspx?aid=355
http://www.public-i.org/Content.aspx?src=search&context=article&id=579
http://duncan.gn.apc.org/bat/Health_Committee_Evidence_1.htm
http://duncan.gn.apc.org/bat/Health_Committee_Evidence_1.htm

3/17/08 Finbar
Yes, the Mormons have a great database. Info only good as those who submit lineage, or those two guys on the bikes have time to find. There are others.

Perhaps, to find more fruit, one might need to seek another family tree.

Maybe shake the tree of a retired ex-polis and see what kinda flavour falls out.

Who knows...it may lead to the fifth and a monkey.

3/18/08 Finbar
Flip tha coin again, sour mash gal.

There is more than one retired polis....

Maybe search: Solagnier + genaruba
=

"...Frenchman...."
"Blue blood...."
"Cousins"
"Crows"
"South American"
"Curacao"
"grandmother"
"Insurance"
"Blogs"
"ALE"
"Ex-monkey"

Fin3/19/08
Not Shango.

Search: Solaganier + genaruba

ah ... Tio Rufo, SGC's next door neighbor? Rufo... rings a bell. Is he a neighbour?
fin thinks SGC the 5th? Why would he lie? Any reasons? Any relations to an ex-monkey?
the monkey is ex/not current? Posts the cage no more.

RUFO SOLOGNIER
Retired ALE Police Chief

Now that rings a louder bell.

No typos in

Search: Solagnier + genaruba.

Do names through genealogy histories always stay the same?

The ex-monkey is not a Crows, but is related to Crows.

Steve Crows is not the ex-monkey, but maybe related to one.

Shake the Solagnier + genaruba and an ex-monkey will fall out of the tree.

Rufo cannot find a razor, think he could type?

Two words above to be searched with a "+" in between. Does the s-engine still work?


This is the search result for Solagnier + genaruba.

108.   Nicolaas Croes, born 1732 in Curaçao103.  He was the son of 216. Lourens Croes and 217. Susanna van der Westen.  He married 109. Maria Elizabeth van der Biest 01 november 1770103.
109.  Maria Elizabeth van der Biest  She was the daughter of 218. Harmen van der Biest and 219. Suzanna van der Woestijne.

Children of Nicolaas Croes and Maria Biest are:
  i. Hendrik Croes, born 15 oktober 1769104; died 09 oktober 1854 in Aruba104; married Anna Clara Poppe 16 augustus 1826 in Aruba105; born 25 februari 1773106; died 26 september 1841 in Aruba106.
  ii. Lourens Croes, born 08 januari 1777107; died 12 augustus 1850 in Aruba108; married Magdalena Specht 1801109; died Bef. 1850110.
  iii. Regina Jacomina Croes, born 14 oktober 1781111; died Bef. 1831111; married Michel Benoit Solagnier; born 09 juni 1754 in Marseille, France112; died 28 april 1831 in Aruba112.
54 iv. Jan van der Biest Croes, born 12 november 1783; died 20 juni 1859 in Aruba; married Maria Elizabeth Specht 27 augustus 1834 in Aruba.

27 in Aruba80; born 10 september 1798 in Aruba81; died 08 november 1881 in Aruba81.
  ii. Jan Pieter Croes, born 15 februari 1812 in Aruba82; died 28 december 1904 in Aruba82; married Sarah Zagaria Castro 11 november 1857 in Aruba83; born Abt. 1823 in Aruba84; died 01 november 1908 in Aruba84.
28 iii. Casper Theodorus Croes, born 17 mei 1825 in Aruba; died 13 juli 1889 in Aruba; married Regina Jacomina Ravine 11 augustus 1847 in Aruba.


58.  Paulus Ravine, born 06 april 1794 in Aruba85; died 13 juli 1841 in Aruba85.  He married 59. Maria Margaretha Solagnier 16 augustus 1826 in Aruba86.
59.  Maria Margaretha Solagnier, born 25 mei 180487; died 29 oktober 1861 in Aruba87.  She was the daughter of 118. Michel Benoit Solagnier and 119. Regina Jacomina Croes.

Child of Paulus Ravine and Maria Solagnier is:
29 i. Regina Jacomina Ravine, born Abt. 1824 in Aruba; died 18 oktober 1897 in Aruba; married Casper Theodorus Croes 11 augustus 1847 in Aruba.

http://www.geocities.com/genaruba/Page5_29.html

28.   Casper Theodorus Croes, born 17 mei 1825 in Aruba46; died 13 juli 1889 in Aruba46.  He was the son of 56. Frans Muller Croes and 57. Catharina Theresa Tromp.  He married 29. Regina Jacomina Ravine 11 augustus 1847 in Aruba47.
29.  Regina Jacomina Ravine, born Abt. 1824 in Aruba48; died 18 oktober 1897 in Aruba48.  She was the daughter of 58. Paulus Ravine and 59. Maria Margaretha Solagnier.

Children of Casper Croes and Regina Ravine are:
  i. Jan Croes, born 11 januari 1848 in Aruba49; died 02 januari 1918 in Aruba50; married Abeona Croes 23 juni 1869 in Aruba51; born 19 oktober 1851 in Aruba52; died 06 oktober 1926 in Aruba53.
14 ii. Johannes Nicolaas Croes, born 29 september 1863 in Aruba; died 23 maart 1947 in Aruba; married Theolinda Robustiana Lampe 24 september 1884 in Aruba.

http://www.geocities.com/genaruba/Page12_29.html

118.   Michel Benoit Solagnier, born 09 juni 1754 in Marseille, France112; died 28 april 1831 in Aruba112.  He married 119. Regina Jacomina Croes.
119.  Regina Jacomina Croes, born 14 oktober 1781113; died Bef. 1831113.  She was the daughter of 108. Nicolaas Croes and 109. Maria Elizabeth van der Biest.

Child of Michel Solagnier and Regina Croes is:
59 i. Maria Margaretha Solagnier, born 25 mei 1804; died 29 oktober 1861 in Aruba; married Paulus Ravine 16 augustus 1826 in Aruba.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 06, 2008, 03:51:42 PM
JE
Scared Monkey
   
Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
« Reply #3720 on: March 22, 2008, 07:40:16 AM »
   
Maybe this was brought up before, but anyway.....

If the general belief is that Simian and Merian Ernest are one and the same
then Alcazar's Revenge makes another good candidate for being simian

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?PHPSESSID=212df9d42a5568a77557dead318cc13b&topic=1186.0

He has some interesting posts:

Alcazar's Revenge

Joined: 03 Aug 2005 Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 10:05 am Post subject: Van Rijn
________________________________________
I do not understand the fixation on Van Rijn. The Police eliminated him as a suspect after extensive harassment. They even literally took his boat, cars and house apart.

He was brought in for questioning a couple of times, but somehow this was not brought in the limelight by the interviews on TV.

His father/family used to own the Volkswagen dealership. They might have sold part of it or completely. He known for off-the-wall behaviour.

Alcazar's Revenge

Joined: 03 Aug 2005 Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 10:24 am Post subject: Rape?
________________________________________
I hear Shango, You haven't seen one piece of legal document on anything. So in that regard you should keep your opinion to yourself.

Why you haven't seen his face on TV, because he was never pointed to by the Twitty's. That is why.

It is a public secret that the casino employees pointed to him as being involved with Natalee and the group during their stay in Aruba. Even alluding to a romantic involvement with Natalee.

At the same time Beth Twitty states that Joran raped her daughter, because she was a virgin. That even if the sex was consensual it was still rape to her.


The reason i think he could be simian/merian is the references in his posts to characters from the TinTin comic book series. For example Alcazar, picaros, tapioca, at one point he says "duizend bommen en granaten" which is a line often used in those comic books by one of the characters.

another post:

Alcazar's Revenge
Joined: 03 Aug 2005

Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 5:03 pm Post subject: Choose sides...

It's helpful to do so. It avoids embarrassment.

The Shivas will be pinched again. Reset your clocks as it may happen before the ides of August.

Do not underestimate the Babylonians. That has been your mistake all along. The words exchanged with the Yellowhammer will haunt Cain. The question is if he will be Abel to tell the truth.

Remember that the block and the hammer are not owned by the Babylonians. Et tu, De Wit?

The whisperer is back on the line. Weak,...but still hungry. Never broken. In the Nemean sense.

"Death to Tapioca!"


Now for the off the wall part.....

I googled Alczars revenge and this came up, off the wall like i said...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Bishop

Mary Bishop was a fictional character on the American soap opera General Hospital.

some quotes from the wiki page:

Mary discovered that the stranger Nikolas spoke to was Lorenzo Alcazar
They painted Emily as a scorned lover that couldn't let go of Connor.
Mary received her medication and went into cardiac arrest and later died. It was discovered that Mary had been given the wrong medication. Suspicion fell on Emily since she was alone with the medicine cart and threatened Mary. The mystery of her murder was never solved, although many believe she was killed by Lorenzo Alcazar

Probably nothing but some of the terms used jumped out

just a thought
   
SS

   
   
Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
« Reply #3721 on: March 22, 2008, 07:45:19 AM »
   

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?action=post;topic=2886.1240;num_replies=1257


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 06, 2008, 03:53:12 PM
As you can see SS was very interested in this subject...wonder where she is? 

SS

Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
« Reply #3725 on: March 22, 2008, 09:05:00 AM »
   
I'm not sure that we have identified all of the information that Fin was giving us.  These are the surnames that I found in the source which Fin gave.  The names are Croes, van der Westen, van der Biest, van der Woestijne, Poppe, Specht, Solagnier, Zagaria, Castro, Ravine, Tromp, and Lampe.

This is the list that Fin gave us.  We haven't figured out very much of it

Retired ex-polis - Rufo Solognier (uncle and neighbor of Steve Cores)
Blue Blood - ?
Cousins - ?
Crows - Steve Cores (?)
Curacao - ?
Grandmother - ?
Insurance - ?
Blogs - ?
ALE - ?
ex-monkey - no longer posts on SM

Fin wanted us to ask why SGC would lie, and what relations he has to an ex-monkey.
Who is Fin? He didn't join this forum until February.  Was he a former forum member?  How would he know this information about former posters?  I haven't seen Fin post since he gave these cryptic clues. I very quickly identified that Fin knows how genealogy data is gathered.  He knew how LDS gets their information, which might have gone over many monkey heads.  He knew about individuals submitting lineages and the "two on the bike".  Fin has done genealogy research. I think we ned to take a good look a Fin's clues again.

Yes, the Mormons have a great database. Info only good as those who submit lineage, or those two guys on the bikes have time to find. There are others.

Perhaps, to find more fruit, one might need to seek another family tree.

Maybe shake the tree of a retired ex-polis and see what kinda flavour falls out.

Who knows...it may lead to the fifth and a monkey.

Flip tha coin again, sour mash gal.

There is more than one retired polis....

Maybe search: Solagnier + genaruba

ah ... Tio Rufo, SGC's next door neighbor? Rufo... rings a bell. Is he a neighbour?
fin thinks SGC the 5th? Why would he lie? Any reasons? Any relations to an ex-monkey?

the monkey is ex/not current? Posts the cage no more.

RUFO SOLOGNIER
Retired ALE Police Chief

Now that rings a louder bell.

No typos in

Search: Solagnier + genaruba.

Do names through genealogy histories always stay the same?

The ex-monkey is not a Crows, but is related to Crows.

Steve Crows is not the ex-monkey, but maybe related to one.

Shake the Solagnier + genaruba and an ex-monkey will fall out of the tree.

Rufo cannot find a razor, think he could type?

Two words above to be searched with a "+" in between. Does the s-engine still work?

Fin


Am I sour mash girl?    I keep focusing on the changes in the Solagnier spelling.  The family that now spells it Solognier is Rufo.  The family that still spells it Solagnier is the one that was involved in smuggling with the Harms family and Jossy Mansur.  Rufo can't find a razor and typing is also of interest.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 06, 2008, 03:54:25 PM
LOL  I hope AG doesn't get mad again about all this stuff. LOL

SS

Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
« Reply #3727 on: March 22, 2008, 10:06:46 AM »
   
I found some research on descendants of Solangier family that was done by Diandre Alders. Do any of these names mean anything to anyone?

1 Michel Benoit SOLAGNIER b: 9 Jun 1754 d: 28 Apr 1831
  + Regina Jacomina CROES b: 14 Oct 1781 d: Bef 1831
    2 Maria Margaretha SOLAGNIER b: 25 May 1804 d: 29 Oct 1861
      + Paulus RAVINE b: 6 Apr 1790 d: 20 Oct 1824
        3 Regina Jacomina RAVINE b: Abt 1828 d: 18 Oct 1897
          + Casper Theodorus CROES b: 17 May 1825 d: 13 Jul 1889
            4 Jan CROES b: 11 Jan 1848 d: 2 Jan 1918
              + Abeona CROES b: 19 Oct 1851 d: 6 Oct 1926
                5 Jacobo CROES b: 18 Jan 1877 d: 9 Dec 1918
                  + Anna Elisabeth CROES b: 24 Sep 1879 d: 16 May 1924
                    6 Inovia Beltranda CROES b: 10 Oct 1904 d: 4 Aug 1979
                      + Constantino Remaclo ALDERS b: 13 Sep 1881 d: 15 Jun 1965
            4 Johannes Nicolaas CROES b: 29 Sep 1863 d: 23 Mar 1947
              + Theolinda Robustiana LAMPE b: 14 Mar 1864 d: 2 Oct 1931
                5 Maria Regina CROES b: 30 Dec 1906 d: 9 Aug 1991
                  + Ezau Albrecht HENRIQUEZ b: 13 Jan 1904 d: 14 Mar 1975
                    6 Living HENRIQUEZ
                      + Living ALDERS


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 06, 2008, 03:55:11 PM
More from SS:

This means that the daughter of Ezau and Marie Henriques married the son of Constantino and Inovia Alders.  Their names aren’t given because they are still alive.
Could Inovia Croes or Maria Cores be Fin’s grandmother?

·  ID: I49616985
·  Name: Living HENRIQUEZ
·  Sex: F

Father: Ezau Albrecht HENRIQUEZ b: 13 Jan 1904 in Aruba
Mother: Maria Regina CROES b: 30 Dec 1906 in Aruba

Marriage 1 Living ALDERS
Children
1.    Living ALDERS

·  ID: I49616984
·  Name: Living ALDERS
·  Sex: M

Father: Constantino Remaclo ALDERS b: 13 Sep 1881 in Kralendijk, Bonaire
Mother: Inovia Beltranda CROES b: 10 Oct 1904 in Aruba

Marriage 1 Living HENRIQUEZ
Children
1.    Living ALDERS


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 06, 2008, 03:58:55 PM
SS:

Re: Natalee Case Discussion #734 2/21 -
« Reply #712 on: February 23, 2008, 01:12:13 PM »

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote from: Magnolia on February 23, 2008, 12:04:24 PM
Quote from: bleachedblack on February 23, 2008, 11:32:54 AM
Quote from: Blonde on February 23, 2008, 09:46:02 AM
I have NO link saved of where I got this I'm not sure if it's right
Monday, May 30
12:15 am?.......Deepak, Satish & Joran arrive Carlos’nCharlies’
........................MB kids surprised to see Joran because he’d said @ casino Sunday nites slow & no one goes out
12:45 am.........Joran in another scuffle with MBHS kids outside Carlos’nCharlies’
........................Natalee & other MBHS kids believe Joran van der Sloot is a Dutch tourist visiting Aruba
........................Some locals later tell MBHS kids Joran van der Sloot is a local drug dealer
1:00 am...........Carlos’nCharlie’s closes, everyone starts leaving
1:30 am...........Joran walks next to Natalee outside Carlos’nCharlie’s, but two are not touching
........................MB kids say Natalee does not appear to be drunk & is walking OK
........................Natalee tells MB friends she’s going back to Holiday Inn with another group of MB kids
........................Natalee points to MB kids she’s going with, Kalpoe brothers & Deepak’s car nowhere in sight
........................MB kids see Natalee & Joran in Deepak’s car but think it’s a taxi (taxis not marked in Aruba)
........................Natalee & Joran leave Carlos’nCharlies’ in Deepak Kalpoe’s car with his brother Satish
........................MB kids go back to hotel pool and beach. Marriott beach visible. Moon at 59% illumination
1:40 am...........Kalpoe’s lawyer says Deepak briefly stops at a bar/restaurant a block from Carlos’nCharlies’
1:50 am...........Kalpoe’s lawyer says Deepak then drives away from Oranjestad to California Lighthouse
1:50 am...........Kalpoe’s lawyer says the brothers drop off Natalee & Joran (@ Marriott?)
2:00 am...........Mickey John says Deepak told him in jail that he & Satish went home and got on the computer
2:00 am...........Person sees Kalpoe brothers in Deepak’s car driving toward Montanja where van der Sloots live
2-3:00 am........Kalpoe’s neighbor sees brothers at home washing Deepak’s car
2:30 am...........Geraldo says Joran van der Sloot calls Deepak Kalpoe and asks for a ride
2:40 am...........Satish Kalpoe’s lawyer David **** says cellphone records show Joran called Deepak
........................Lawyer says Deepak told him Joran said he was walking home & left Natalee on beach
........................Mickey says Deepak told him Joran said he would go online in hour and tell him what happened
3:00 am...........?Someone makes withdrawl from Paulus’ account @ Aruba Bank ATM across from Mcdonalds?
3:00 am?.........Someone who sounds like Natalee leaves garbled message on cellphone voicemail of MB guy
....................... MB guy’s cell (his, not rented) is only MB cell which can make/receive calls locally in Aruba
........................Message on his voicemail is along the lines of “I don't know these people”
3:00 am...........?Natalee also leaves message on Twittys answering machine in MB calling from a cellphone?
........................Beth Twitty in Arkansas @ time. Where were Jug Twitty & Natalee’s 16 y.o. brother Matthew?
........................Cellphone may have belonged to or was rented by Joran or Paulus van der Sloot
........................Beth Twitty tells Fox H&C she believes Natalee was @ van der Sloots when she made the call
3:00 am...........Deepak tells Mickey Johns that Joran text messaged they “need to talk” as per People Mag
3:15 am..........Geraldo says Deepak gets text message saying “Nevermind. Got another ride.”
3:20 am..........Satish’s lawyer says Deepak said he got text message from Joran saying he was home
3:45 am..........?Someone makes 2nd withdrawl from Paulus’ account @ Aruba Bank ATM?
4:00 am..........Geraldo says Paulus picks up Joran (from where??) and drives him home
5:00 am..........50-100 MB kids @ beach, Holiday Inn pool & lobby start to go back to their rooms for sleep
6:30 am..........?Records show call from one of 3 amigo’s cellphones in Santa Lucia area of Aruba ?
.......................?Call is to another of the 3 amigos?
6:40 am..........Julia @ “Aruba Today” says Joran on school bus & “aced” his exam, but no exams scheduled
.......................Headmaster @ International School of Aruba says Joran was late this day & Paulus drove him
???? am..........Joran in school bragging about sex with Natalee -- also saying she drowned??
8:00 am..........Chaperones go to all the MB kids’ hotel rooms, make sure all awake.
.......................Chaperones take headcount and notice Natalee is missing.



Blonde I have seen this timeline also, but  don't recall where from. It interestingly contains the mention of the stop at the other bar by the perps, and the ATM stops, but
sadly not confirmed info on it though I recall it too .......often I think this early info true...out before it got cleaned up, sadly no way to prove it.

1:40 am...........Kalpoe’s lawyer says Deepak briefly stops at a bar/restaurant a block from Carlos’nCharlies’

3:00 am...........?Someone makes withdrawl from Paulus’ account @ Aruba Bank ATM across from Mcdonalds?

3:45 am..........?Someone makes 2nd withdrawl from Paulus’ account @ Aruba Bank ATM? [/b]


I think the timeline above may be the one Writenow did at the end of June o5,
I always thought that was important because information was new in the mind.


Nope.

That computer scrawl be mine.

I think I composed it from several sources. One was World Journier. One was from interviews. Me thinks Shizaru sounds familiar, but I do not remember those text messages that were actually sent.

It may seem they came from several sites because I mined all the net info I could find at the time. That page came from one place.

I was hoping it would be posted because that info was on an old computer that I no longer use.

It needs reworking and a badly needed format make over. lol.

Fin


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on August 06, 2008, 04:04:25 PM
Why did it take until June 11 to begin the Joshua was in the house comments?  What had transpired at this time that was necessary for this Joshua person to be mentioned? A red herring perhaps?  Partial truth? 

Such as "Deepak came with 2 dawgs and buried her near the fisherman huts".  Totally made up and fictional happening based on the way Joran wanted the story to go. 

I can't make any connections on Michael Posner and Joshua either, but that does not mean it isn't so.  We should keep looking.

Truthseeker, I will look for the AG is Simian stuff if you really want to go there again. I will find it an post it if no one else does.


6/11...arrest?
6/12...Freddy's first statement.

Wouldn't take this info to the bank...basic people search...

Walter B Posner

48
Previous Cities   
Deerfield, IL
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Buffalo Grove, IL
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Relatives
Florence Nmi Posner
Michael W Posner
Stephanie D Posner
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Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 06, 2008, 04:06:35 PM
My last post for awhile.  Let the discussion begin.

SS
Scared Monkey
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Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
« Reply #3781 on: March 22, 2008, 07:29:20 PM »
   
I have pulled some tidbits of converstaions with Finbar.

This one was on 3/14 and once again he is pointing a finger at a Cores.

There was a meeting on june 28th between Croes, Donner(dutch justice minister) and Pechtold(dutch minister of kingdom relations) in curacao. During this meeting croes asked the dutch ministers for assistance in rectifying the aruban image that was painted in the US media. The bad image was harming arubas tourist industry. (wampum)

jackb,

Do you have a link for this source?

Interesting. A Croes that was at the meeting. Still reaching to tie in SGC into the mix. Croes is as common as a Yoruba priest down there, but one has to be related. With small island inter relations - most likely, more than one.

So, one suspect names SGC and he was arrested. I read somewhere else that SGC mentions he was arrested because he over heard something stated by one of the suspects.

I think the island's close familial relationships are the nut that will not likely be cracked.

Fin


3/13/08
There is more that one dirty hand.

CAPS mentioned this. The different spellings of DH/dh seems to indicate this also.

His Lordship is not Oduber. He is the Prime Minister. He is there to preserve Aruba.

His Excellency Governor Refunjol is there to preserve Holland. He is the Head of State. No one higher unless we want to drag the Queen into it.

If we go Rasta - Babylon is the oppression of the Dutch laws, legal system, police, etc.. It is a foreign government forced upon the Arawak peoples from ages ago.

His Lordship Refunjol is there to preserve Babylon.

CAPS, do you own cats?

Fin

3/12/08
Something else odd. All these posters stating that a body thrown in the ocean would either wash back upon the shores or S.A..

Max never washed up.

Fin

3/11/08
Is Finbar aka AG aka Simian???
ag & simian were the two I remember posting about insurance scams.

Fin

3/09/08
17   Natalee Holloway / LCD Archive / Re: Natalee Case Discussion #741 3/7 -  on: March 09, 2008, 07:05:07 PM
Venezuela Nabs Suspected Colombian Cocaine Kingpin

http://www.reuters.com/article/latestCrisis/idUSN09398680


Maybe PVDS was a mob/cartel lawyer and got caught skimming money.

No casino will allow anyone to gamble beyond the means to pay the debt. Unless an equal amount is in a bank account.

South FLA is the drug capitol of the U.S.. Maybe that is the reason for the trip. Bidness. Drug bidness.

Was this the guy from Aruba that was in FLA and then fled? H. Gonzales?

Fin 

3/09/08
Quote from: Lala'sMom on March 09, 2008, 08:41:42 AM
Quote from: Finbar on March 09, 2008, 04:42:14 AM

How does ag have the "power of the ping"?


Only Mods and Admin can see other posters IP address.  I don't think I ever saw my own IP on the FP.

Yes, mistake on me part. Riddle was only posted on the FP.

Me thinks Mom answered Fin's rhetorical question.

Fin

3/9/08
CAPS,

Yes. This has been my contention for several years now. There are others that will verify that I came up with this idea several years ago. I even sent this info to Dave at that same time I figured this out.

The map link posted earlier in the thread is the same one from Buki Di Telefoon Aruba 2005 showing the Wi-Fi HotSpots.

2K would have to be aware of Wi-Fi. What - own an Internet Cafe and not have that option for customers? They prolly even sold the pre-paid cards for Wi-Fi at their Cafe.

Wi-Fi is often called "the hippie network." One could string a series of Wi-Fi HotSpots, covering a local area, and peeps could receive internet access for free.

It is a broadcast signal through the air waves. So, it could be hacked by someone with that skill. If one has their own personal Wi-Fi router, one can make it accessible only with a password. Got iPod Touch?

The other aspect is that is that Wi-Fi can be accessed via cell phone, pda's, computer, laptop, etc..

Me thinks the range is limited.

This is the aspect that most likely hindered the investigation. The suspects used Wi-Fi to make it appear that they were at a location, where they were not really located there.

Example: Use cell phone to call from the (insert any location here) and access home computer. Logon and send your friend a text message  email. When computer records and emails are investigated - it will make it appear that the person is at home, when they are not. Maybe this is what ALE meant by computer timeclock tampering.

I believe that some ALE on Aruba honestly tries to investigate, but the conflicting information(alibi/lies of Wi-Fi) proved to support the suspects. Then the coverup began.

Wi-Fi - It's the next best thing to being there....

Fin

3/9/08
I have used paintball markers and I do not believe it is possible to kill a dog with one - even point blank. Maybe torture one with it though. Most serial killers torture and kill animals as "practice" for their later deeds.

I have in me notes that clevfan spoke to the grandmother of SGC on Curacao.

SGC's friend is GVC.

GVC played soccer with JVDS.

I cannot decipher the numerous connections with words. I drew a picture. Take a piece of paper and place "Polis" at the center. Then add all the names in the case and arrows pointing to connections.

It is startling.

Round and round it goes.

Fin

3/9/08
So.

How does ag know Shango?

She is on Aruba and Shango is supposedly in FLA.

Shango would have to be from or lived on Aruba at one point in time.

How does ag have the "power of the ping"?

I would think that it would be extremely, extremely difficult for a poster to have the power to trace someone through an internet BB. A super hacker - maybe.

How can this be?

If one notices at the bottom right of each post, it states "Logged".
Click it and a window pops up -
"Your IP address is shown only to you and moderators. remember that this information is not identifying, and that most IPs change periodically.

You cannot see other member's IP addresses, and they cannot see yours."

So.

Did someone ever supply ag with the IP addy or location of Shango?

Shango knew when the Dopple was there because they had a common friend. Either a phone call, email or IM was sent when the mother came home. The mother was the Dopple. I do not believe that anyone was posting as a Dopple unless it was the mother. I believe that it was meant that the mother had simply arrived home.

So, how so, how the power of the ping?

I once knew a penguin that could ping.

Fin

3/07/08
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:37 pm

DirtyHand is not a child of Babylon

So, he is not Dutch & not Aruban. What nationality is he?

Literally one would think it means someone that is not from NL or Aruba.

Yet, child of Babylon infers - not a young person of Dutch decent. Could mean an older person that is Dutch.

Not Arawak meaning - not descended from the original islanders. Could be borne there, but I think locals mean one has to have been there for several generations to be considered Aruban(Arawak).

Could also be an elder person of Dutch and Aruban parents that are not considered Arawak.

Could be someone that was borne there and not of Dutch or Aruban heritage.

Could be someone that settled there from another country than NL or Aruba.

If we assume that Shango was trying to help and if what he stated is true, then we must find someone that fits one of these criteria of birth and origin.

I think these are things that only the locals may know.

Fin

3/08/08
So, why do the shoes appear to be orange?

Then I remembered my time spent on a clay tennis court. Leaves the shoes with clay dust.

I used Google Earth but could not find a clay court at the RC. But around the green ones there is a rectangular ring of - clay.

Odd. I have never seen a court surrounded by clay before.

That would explain why the tennis shoes look like boots. The clay colour.

Fin

03/05/08
Peaches,

Kinda, sorta, not really. That is Finbar for I have to go to work to feed the credit cards before Visa sends a hit man looking for me.

But a poo poo platter sounds kinda interesting.

Fin

3/05/08
Finbar is referring to a photograph of Steve Croes.

Is the second pic cropped? I would love to see more of the left part if it is.

Notice they both have that same deformed looking ear curl going inwards toward the ear canal - proper.

That is an inherited trait.

Maybe papa Crow has it too.

Follow the ear lobes....

Fin

P.S. Hey Faith

3/04/08
Yes. Misdirection away from the landfill.

How many of Aruba's investigators were at the dump helping Dave dig?

Didn't they make him get permits or something?

Covered up the holes that they had dug.

Maybe the witness did not see them burying a body, but digging it back up to be moved. I think CAPS posted that. Insightful.

The ocean makes sense, being on finite island land, but if willing conspirators kept moving and reburying the body - makes it difficult to find.

Dompig gave many conflicting opinions on the case. Related to Kalpoe?

Fin

3/04/04
Reference to the father of Steve Croes
I dunno. Maybe a dead end.

It is just odd to me that the judges in this case come from Curacao. Maybe it is the norm. SGC's father there. Supposed to be a ranking official. I read a member of the judiciary. Maybe that info was not correct. I am just trying to tie it together, if it goes together.

There is a pic of SGC & JVDS. Claims to not know them. Provides an alibi that was a lie.

Besides the obvious, it is odd that all of these surrounding people committed crimes of obstruction and perjury and none are prosecuted for it. Maybe this angle should be pushed for Aruba's officials to explain.

3/04/08
I dunno. Maybe a dead end.

It is just odd to me that the judges in this case come from Curacao. Maybe it is the norm. SGC's father there. Supposed to be a ranking official. I read a member of the judiciary. Maybe that info was not correct. I am just trying to tie it together, if it goes together.

There is a pic of SGC & JVDS. Claims to not know them. Provides an alibi that was a lie.

Besides the obvious, it is odd that all of these surrounding people committed crimes of obstruction and perjury and none are prosecuted for it. Maybe this angle should be pushed for Aruba's officials to explain.

03/04/08
I dunno. Maybe a dead end.

It is just odd to me that the judges in this case come from Curacao. Maybe it is the norm. SGC's father there. Supposed to be a ranking official. I read a member of the judiciary. Maybe that info was not correct. I am just trying to tie it together, if it goes together.

There is a pic of SGC & JVDS. Claims to not know them. Provides an alibi that was a lie.

Besides the obvious, it is odd that all of these surrounding people committed crimes of obstruction and perjury and none are prosecuted for it. Maybe this angle should be pushed for Aruba's officials to explain.

03/03/08
Finbar's response to a list of judges in Curcao and Aruba
I dunno. Maybe a dead end.

It is just odd to me that the judges in this case come from Curacao. Maybe it is the norm. SGC's father there. Supposed to be a ranking official. I read a member of the judiciary. Maybe that info was not correct. I am just trying to tie it together, if it goes together.

There is a pic of SGC & JVDS. Claims to not know them. Provides an alibi that was a lie.

Besides the obvious, it is odd that all of these surrounding people committed crimes of obstruction and perjury and none are prosecuted for it. Maybe this angle should be pushed for Aruba's officials to explain.


More later


http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?action=post;topic=2886.1260;num_replies=1262


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 06, 2008, 04:12:14 PM
Why did it take until June 11 to begin the Joshua was in the house comments?  What had transpired at this time that was necessary for this Joshua person to be mentioned? A red herring perhaps?  Partial truth? 

Such as "Deepak came with 2 dawgs and buried her near the fisherman huts".  Totally made up and fictional happening based on the way Joran wanted the story to go. 

I can't make any connections on Michael Posner and Joshua either, but that does not mean it isn't so.  We should keep looking.

Truthseeker, I will look for the AG is Simian stuff if you really want to go there again. I will find it an post it if no one else does.

I'm not sure why is was casually mentioned by Joran.  Who knows why Joran ever says anything.  he has to be one of the most untrustworth people on the planet.  But Joran's mention of a Joshua is not why I was looking at the Joshua Posner from Wooten.  I was looking for any connection to Michael Posner and Louis and Israel Posner.  What I see my be legit, maybe not.  The info I found showed Joshua listing himself as "owner" at Aruba Aloe and is also the "Director Of E-Commerce".  Given his course of study at Wooten I do not see that his education prepared him for that job, not to mention he graduated from Wooten in 2006 and is probably not more that 25 years old right now.  But...family business??

The school article that mentions his interest in magic (much of which he performs with cards) also mentions that he was born in Rhode Island, but moved to Aruba when he was two.  There is a connection to Rhode Island and that is with Israel Posner.  He graduated from the University of Rhode Island in 1978.  Israel lists that he held a job on Aruba in 1988.  If young Josh is Israel's son that would mean he would have been on Aruba around the age of 3-4, but still close.

As for the AG=Simian, I can do without it I suppose.  I am really more interested in the Shango influence right now. 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on August 06, 2008, 04:18:46 PM
Why did it take until June 11 to begin the Joshua was in the house comments?  What had transpired at this time that was necessary for this Joshua person to be mentioned? A red herring perhaps?  Partial truth? 

Such as "Deepak came with 2 dawgs and buried her near the fisherman huts".  Totally made up and fictional happening based on the way Joran wanted the story to go. 

I can't make any connections on Michael Posner and Joshua either, but that does not mean it isn't so.  We should keep looking.

Truthseeker, I will look for the AG is Simian stuff if you really want to go there again. I will find it an post it if no one else does.


6/11...arrest?
6/12...Freddy's first statement.

Wouldn't take this info to the bank...basic people search...

Walter B Posner

48
Previous Cities   
Deerfield, IL
Riverwoods, IL
Buffalo Grove, IL
Highland Park, IL
Skokie, IL

Relatives
Florence Nmi Posner
Michael W Posner
Stephanie D Posner
Elisa Hope Posner
Lisa Hope Posner
Wally Posner
Josh Posner
Jeremy Posner



Joshua is listed at 72 and Jeremy 85…

Louis Posner - Aloe

http://www.visitaruba.com/facts/newsdesk/backissues/newsletter61.html


SS was busy with her summer chores last I emailed her…house renovations…she is quite the handygirl… ::MonkeyCool::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 06, 2008, 05:27:56 PM
OK, let me throw another kink in the chain here.


What if Shango was a gambler that played the casinos and was paid to put this info out there in order to turn the attention away from Joran and the Kalpoes?  Remember, Shango insists that the Kalpoes knew nothing about the body or what happened and Joran is only a scapegoat...innocent of any wrongdoing.  It was the elders and Lions that did what they did to Natalee.  It was not Joran's fault.

Turthseeker, sorry, I didn't mean for you to think I was asking you about Joshua. That was a question to Poochy.  But you did give me a good answer.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Buckeye on August 06, 2008, 09:39:10 PM
OK, let me throw another kink in the chain here.


What if Shango was a gambler that played the casinos and was paid to put this info out there in order to turn the attention away from Joran and the Kalpoes?  Remember, Shango insists that the Kalpoes knew nothing about the body or what happened and Joran is only a scapegoat...innocent of any wrongdoing.  It was the elders and Lions that did what they did to Natalee.  It was not Joran's fault.

Turthseeker, sorry, I didn't mean for you to think I was asking you about Joshua. That was a question to Poochy.  But you did give me a good answer.

He could have also been testing the "MB boyfriend" theory....and the alibi outside by the HI pool "party"....as disinformation that was not picked up on.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 06, 2008, 11:51:06 PM
OK, let me throw another kink in the chain here.


What if Shango was a gambler that played the casinos and was paid to put this info out there in order to turn the attention away from Joran and the Kalpoes?  Remember, Shango insists that the Kalpoes knew nothing about the body or what happened and Joran is only a scapegoat...innocent of any wrongdoing.  It was the elders and Lions that did what they did to Natalee.  It was not Joran's fault.

Turthseeker, sorry, I didn't mean for you to think I was asking you about Joshua. That was a question to Poochy.  But you did give me a good answer.

He could have also been testing the "MB boyfriend" theory....and the alibi outside by the HI pool "party"....as disinformation that was not picked up on.

I might agree and say that is an idea I have never thought about except the "alibi" reference.  Even Shango discussed that alibi story with Simian.  Therefore, I give it some credence, but not sure in what context.  You just confused me...and I thought I had it all figured out. LOL :roll:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on August 07, 2008, 08:18:15 AM
COLOMBO...re YTD...though referring to tourism, it is used by other agencies...probably in marketing, maybe banking...

http://www.cbs.aw/cbs/home.do


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on August 07, 2008, 08:32:35 AM

More conflicting info on Ben Vocking…Wonder when he changed his name… ::MonkeyWink::


Ben King: Poor Judgement Or Cover-Up in Natalee Holloway Case
I was and still am a bit leary of this report on corruption in the Dutch justice system in Aruba: some facts appear to be incorrect. For instance, Paul(us) v d Sloot is not a "high-ranking official."
The habitual impartiality has been demonstrated in the past with several cases, one case in particular stands out. The case of Alexander Mathew against a Dutch government official, Ben Vocking whom now goes by the name of Ben King .
In this particular case documents disappeared, forensic reports were over looked and witnesses were denied, these documents were in the favor of Alexander Mathew. Paul van der Sloot is a high ranking official in the judicial system and is close friends with Ben King, whom now works at the prosecution office. King was reportedly seen visiting Paul van der Sloot at his home when the Arubian police were performing a search of the van der Sloot residence. Mathew's entire case was tampered with.
King said that his friend Paul van der Sloot helped him in the Mathew case. How many cases has and will Paul van der Sloot help cover up?
However, I do find it curious that an official so close to the PM would 1) change his name and 2) exercise such poor judgement in the Natalee Holloway case that it now appears he has taken a vacation and, from all appearances, will continue to be of assistance or support to the Van der Sloot's in some way.
An article I found in Dutch - scroll down to fifth article - looked curious, so I asked Begga from Hasibokos to translate.
Translation: The Public Ministry (Aruban prosecutor's office) affirmed that Ben King, head of the support division of the Attorney General, was present at the house of the Van der Sloot family when it was being searched Thursday last week.
Spokesperson Marianne Croes, of the prosecutor's office: “King was and is on holiday. He was indeed not present on behalf of the PM (during the search of the van der Sloot estate)” The spokesperson doesn’t want to comment on the various observations that find it strange that a member of the PM was present at the house of the suspects family while the search took place.
Sources within the PM affirm however that the PM as a whole is not happy at all with the actions of Ben King, because this may raise doubts with regard to the impartiality of the ministry. .
King himself says that he and his family have been good friends with the Van der Sloots for some years now. Paul van der Sloot also worked for the PM in the past. King: “A few years ago, when I was working at KIA (local prison), I was maltreated by a prisoner and went through a rough period during which the Van der Sloot family provided us with fantastic support. We want to do the same for them now. But I realize naturally that I cannot stand at both sides on the line.”
And because of this King took some time off from his job to be able to support his friends. King: “It is a small island where conclusions are drawn very fast.” Both Public Ministry and I realize that we have to remain cool-headed. At the same time I have my rights as private-citizen and I want to support my friends in this difficult period.” Ben King was formerly named Vocking, he changed his name a few months ago and his name is now officially King.
Sunday, July 03, 2005 at 04:42 PM in Natalee Holloway | Permalink

hello all.
Im surprised to read that people like Ben (voc)king are being named as ones that are responsible for cover-ups etc.
I know both families for a long time, for starters Ben is not a prosecuter as i have read in above reactions, the name changing has been done a long time before this case had even started and has nothing to do with any case what so ever.
A lot of reactions are based on information that isnt correct or even checked at all.
Actually i had a lot of laughs about most tv-reports and articals, i have lived on aruba for a couple of years as well, and everyone that has lived there knows that most of the stuff and "plots" that has been written cant even be true, because they mix-up locations and information all over the place..
In the function at work that Ben had at that time, it wouldnt even been possible for him to change stuff on that case... To prevent all the writing on anybody that showed up at the van der Sloot family he took vacation from work, so if even suspected he couldnt do anything... But still it was said he was covering stuff up ofcourse.
Im amazed that Americans all just only think about what is said in the media-circus that was started and paid for by the halloway family and dont start thinking for there self.
Imagine being said all the stuff that has been said about both families and nothing of it proven... imagine being a member of one of those families, especially if you are just a friend helping someone you have been very good friends with for over years.
jeroen.
Posted by: jeroen | Thursday, September 27, 2007 at 01:12 PM

http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2005/07/ben_king_poor_j.html


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 07, 2008, 04:44:53 PM
While Shango is composing this post:

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:12 pm
Cowboys must behave in Indian territory
The arawaks need pemmican, they have been without wampum, 1 Moon
The Arawaks keep the singing card
One singing Babylonian and two Hindu chanters are enough
His lordships presence guarantees a trio
The key to edens door did not exist
The refrain has already begun


Simian provides this defense of the system:

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:10 pm
The system is built so that innocent are always protected. One shred of doubt is enough to thrown a case out.

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:11 pm
The system is built so that the innocent are always protected. One shred of doubt is enough to thrown a case out.



Shango responds with:

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:14 pm
Simian your Dopple has resumed position
Bird on the wire


No one has posted as Simian during this time.  We have often thought Shango's reference to Dopple (short for doppleganger) meant someone else posting as Simian.  But...the actual definition is a ghostly double or counterpart of a living person.  I believe Shango was referring to whoever it was that was telling Simian what to say.

Simian does not post again until 9:27 pm.  For over five hours Shango holds the attention of audience for the early evening hours.  Could Simian be in a "strategy session" during this time?

When Simian does return he resumes posting with this:

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:27 pm
The elder had to come clean. He knows what damaged he had caused. The Simian said to not shake the wire, ‘cause the bird would fly away.
The Simian would never pose. Go back and read what the Simian wrote. The Babylonians knows what happened, but they are up in arms. The gamblers knew the girl.


Shango counters with this:

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:30 pm
Who knows what song the elder will sing

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:31 pm
The shivas knew the girl
the arawaks new the girl
and the babylonians still know the girl


Shango posts a few more times and then Simian comes back with:

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:36 pm
All that the gamblers knew was written down.
They knew the girl. She spent her nights at their tables.


Then Shango:

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:43 pm
Did the babylonians like to make movies?
From the tears, a new river will spring forth….


I believe these two were posting to each other in this sequence.  I know some have wondered what this last post from Shango meant.  The idea of porn videos has been discussed.  Given this possible exchange between Simian and Shango I believe this may have more to do with the casino security tapes.  Paulus had to come clean?  She spent her nights at their table?  Simian is holding a carrot on a stick.  Is Shango telling Simian that he knows what Simian is talking about?  Simian would not be able to say what the evidence was and Shango is letting him know that he knows what it is?


Over the next two days both Simian and Shango post their cryptic messages.  They take small jabs at each other, but nothing stands out as a post made in anger.

Then...on 06/28/05:

Simian Says: June 28th, 2005 at 1:52 am
The Simian says that The Simian only reports developments ahead of time. The Simian thinks was is going on is shameless. Playing with feelings.
Th Simian’s umbilical is buried close to the heart of the island. NOBODY EVER try to put us down. The Simian hates what he has been reading.
All things must pass.

Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 1:55 am
Find the music
Only David left the den alive

Simian Says: June 28th, 2005 at 2:01 am
The Simian is getting out. Knows Shango, knows Shock me, knows Checkme. Do not underestimate the power of the ping.
Shango is a dumb copycat. Maybe the Simian should place a call on you. Get you 8 days with a hole to take a dump in. Complementary peanut butter on stale bread for you, you fool.
The Simian is angry. Over and out.

Simian Says: June 28th, 2005 at 2:09 am
The Simian is disapointed. The Simian repeats himself seldom, but like to say the he only reports ahead of time. The clues were solely to avoid implicating sources. Never to hurt the feeling of the readers.
Seeing how this has been used to foul, the Simian will again say that he will retire.

Simian Says: June 28th, 2005 at 2:18 am
f*** the poetry. The Simian is a frenchman. Blue blood if you should know.

Simian Says: June 28th, 2005 at 2:21 am
The Simian doesn’t make predictions. Only gives the group information ahead of time. Predictions are for fools. This is the Simian.
No me hagan mofa. Estoy molesto por las bobedades de Shango y Shock y Checkme. Se creen, pero no son.


Seems Shango may have gone too far in Simian's opinion.  Was Shango's post about David revealing too much?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 07, 2008, 05:09:09 PM
Who is David?  That be the question.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 07, 2008, 05:25:28 PM
While Simian is ranting and telling everyone that they have been pinged, Shango slips into doppleganger mode himself: note-I saved these posts in reverse time order so it will make more sense if you read them from bottom to top.



Robalo33

Simian tu no hablo nada de veridad todavia, ‘ta siempre la misma vaina con usted cabron?

(best translation I can get: Simian your I do not speak to anything of veridad todavia ta always the same case with you cabron?)

Jun 28, 2:22 AM




Robalo33

J’aime mieux passer les temps avec un femme comme vous Simian

(translates: I like to better spend times with a woman like you Simian)
Jun 28, 2:21 AM  



Robalo33

what has simeon said that came out true?

Jun 28, 2:16 AM  



Robalo33

also that simeon never typed anything when he was upset. i believe that is a simeon poser

Jun 28, 2:15 AM  


Robalo33

someone wrote earlier the simeon was an austrolopithecus, which is an early man, not a monkey.

[At 11:48 on June 27 Shango uses the term austrolopithecus. (Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:48 pm - The Simian was incorrect about the package from the Hague  I told the Simian, but the Simian would not listen The simian is not a simian, but an austrolopithecus )
 At 02:10 am on June 28 Robalo33 uses that very same term, yet does not attribute it to Shango.  He immediately posts again at 02:13 am to attribute the use of this term to Shango.]


But simian. more of the stuff this shango says seems more real than your predictions.

Your predictions about the hague two days ago were wrong.
u were also wrong about the searchers finding natalee

Jun 28, 2:13 AM

Robalo33

The simian is wrong
The simian said the Hague was coming

The simian is an austrolopithecus

Jun 28, 2:10 AM  


Robalo33

I have been watching this post for a few days now. This Shango does not seem to waver in his basic themes, but it seems like he is detatched.

I think he is a remote viewer. Not connected, but with a special eye.

Psychics do exist you know

A lot of what has been said makes a lot of sense. And if if this people are speaking in riddles, they are still providinf info to the masses.

just a thought

Jun 28, 1:58 AM
[/i]


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 07, 2008, 05:39:19 PM
How would Robalo33 know anything personal about Simian?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on August 07, 2008, 06:03:03 PM
How would Robalo33 know anything personal about Simian?


Not sure,but here is what I had saved and my translations??? ::MonkeyHaHa::



Simian on June 28th, 2005 1:52 am
The Simian says that The Simian only reports developments ahead of time.
The Simian thinks was is going on is shameless. Playing with feelings.

Th Simian’s umbilical is buried close to the heart of the island. NOBODY EVER try to put us down. The Simian hates what he has been reading.
All things must pass.

Shango on June 28th, 2005 1:55 am
Find the music
Only David left the den alive

Robalo33 on June 28th, 2005 1:58 am
I have been watching this post for a few days now. This Shango does not seem to waver in his basic themes, but it seems like he is detatched.

I think he is a remote viewer. Not connected, but with a special eye.

Psychics do exist you know

A lot of what has been said makes a lot of sense. And if if this people are speaking in riddles, they are still providinf info to the masses.
just a thought 

Simian on June 28th, 2005 2:01 am
The Simian is getting out. Knows Shango, knows Shock me, knows Checkme. Do not underestimate the power of the ping.
 
Shango is a dumb copycat. Maybe the Simian should place a call on you. Get you 8 days with a hole to take a dump in. Complementary peanut butter on stale bread for you, you fool.

 The Simian is angry. Over and out.

Simian on June 28th, 2005 2:09 am
The Simian is disapointed. The Simian repeats himself seldom, but like to say the he only reports ahead of time. The clues were solely to avoid implicating sources. Never to hurt the feeling of the readers.
 
Seeing how this has been used to foul, the Simian will again say that he will retire.

Robalo33 on June 28th, 2005 2:10 am
The simian is wrong

The simian said the Hague was coming

The simian is an austrolopithecus

Robalo33 on June 28th, 2005 2:13 am
someone wrote earlier the simeon was an austrolopithecus, which is an early man, not a monkey.

But simian. more of the stuff this shango says seems more real than your predictions
.
Your predictions about the hague two days ago were wrong.
u were also wrong about the searchers finding natalee

Robalo33 on June 28th, 2005 2:15 am
also that simeon never typed anything when he was upset. i believe that is a simeon poser

Robalo33 on June 28th, 2005 2:16 am
what has simeon said that came out true?

Simian on June 28th, 2005 2:18 am
f*** the poetry. The Simian is a frenchman. Blue blood if you should know.

Simian on June 28th, 2005 2:21 am
The Simian doesn’t make predictions. Only gives the group information ahead of time. Predictions are for fools. This is the Simian.

No me hagan mofa. Estoy molesto por las bobedades de Shango y Shock y Checkme. Se creen, pero no son.
I do not make mockery. I am annoyed by the bobedades of Shango and Shock and Checkme. We believe, but they are not.

Robalo33 on June 28th, 2005 2:21 am
J’aime mieux passer les temps avec un femme comme vous Simian 
I like to spend more time with a woman like you Simian

Robalo33 on June 28th, 2005 2:22 am
Simian tu no hablo nada de veridad todavia, ‘ta siempre la misma vaina con usted cabron?
Simian you do not speak truthfully nothing yet, 't always the same pod with you cabron?

Shango on June 28th, 2005 2:23 am
?

Shango on June 28th, 2005 2:24 am
This Simian is not the Simian. It is a Doppleganger.

Shango on June 28th, 2005 2:27 am
Crypticism leads to tributaries of thought which would not usually leave the MainStream

Simian on June 28th, 2005 2:28 am
Cabron seras tu, pendejo. Yo trato de pasar la informacion antes de tiempo, pero Uds. no entienden y creen que todo se soluciona por ser gringo. No hago predicciones y tampoco nunca dije que sabà a que paso esa noche.
Je ne compris pas quesque tu dire. Que je suis une femme? La vie n’est pas comment tu pense.
Tu seras bastards, wanker. I try to pass the information ahead of time, but you. do not understand and believe that everything will be solved by gringo. I'm not predictions, nor never said that to step sabà that night.
I do not understand quesque you say. Whether I am a woman? Life is not how you think.

 
Shango on June 28th, 2005 2:29 am
Babylon is Falling

The Arawak teepees will be crushed

will they sacrifice the Lamb or the Lion

to make the cowboys smile


Simian on June 28th, 2005 2:32 am
Shango, you have been pinged. No pone bo mes na lià ±a. E cosnan cu bo a papia awe por haci’bo dolor maà ±an. Cera bo boca y no papia di loke bo no sa. Bai drumi, paso ta laat.

Hopi hende ta lesa loke bo ta skibi. Nan lanta na porta di bo cas maà ±an, no spanta.
shango, you have been pinged. not place do you self at lià ±a. the cosnan cu you have talk today can haci’bo dolor maà ±an. close do you mouth y not talk of thing do you not know. go sleep, pace is late. much person is read thing are you skibi. they arise at door of you cas maà ±an, not spanta. come across

Shango on June 28th, 2005 2:39 am
The arawaks must hunt the lions

in the place of darkness

house of secrets

Shango on June 28th, 2005 2:45 am
Shango finds it very humorous (and quite fitting) that a frenchman would assume the monniker of a Primate

Simian on June 28th, 2005 2:50 am
As opposed to? Crack a book some time…

Shango on June 28th, 2005 2:50 am
The babylonian and the shivas did not build castles in the sand

they lost to the lions

dirty hand knows

the elder knows

and so do the arawaks
the cowboys are far from the house of babylon

the maze shall remain dark to all but the arawak nation and the elders

Simian on June 28th, 2005 2:53 am
Shango, whenever you think you can get on the inside of the real Aruban society give me a sign, you probably were picking up the trash.
 
You have been pinged. Bai drumi! Ta laat caba.

Anacaona on June 28th, 2005 2:54 am
Simian, hablas espaà ±ol muy bien, et franà §ais pas aussi bien 
De verdad saben algo, o es solo jugando?
Simian, talking espaà ± ol very well, and franà § ais pas aussi bien
Really know something, or is just playing?

Shango on June 28th, 2005 2:59 am
The Simian Doppleganger is upset because the arawak nation is hiding the truth from the cowboys

DirtyHand knows

Simian knows

The Simian stated for 2 days, the key would come from the hague the next day

Shango said no two times


Is Simian a DirtyHand too

Has the Simian played with the lions

in the houses of ill-repute and poison notes

where the innocent flies are lured?

Has the Simian, primate that he is, fed with the other animals?

Back ye fetid mongrel, as the 46th are you; delegate of the 7th level of inferno,

not birthed, but spewed from the dark chasm of a nightmare!

Simian on June 28th, 2005 3:02 am
Yo solo trato de pasar informacià ³n antes de que se presente en las noticias. Primero, porque no se dicen las como se deben en Fox News o en CNN.
 
Sinembargo me encuentro ahora con un idiota que se cree hacer predicciones de cosas que no sabe. Alavez, claramente yo tampoco por no haber estado alli. Una vez mas yo solo paso informacion que tengo de gente que estan conectados en la sociedad Arubana.

Estoy muy disgustado hoy de leer como esta idiota que se hace llamar Shango esta jugando con los sentimientos de estos gringos y alavez de oà r a Nancy Grace hablar de situaciones que ella ni siquiera entiende.
I just try to pass informacià ³ before being present at the news. First, because not say as to be on Fox News or CNN.
However now I am an idiot que se cree make predictions of things we do not know. Alavéz, I clearly not for not having been there. Once again I only step that I have information from people who are connected in society Arubano.
I am very upset to read today as this idiot calling itself Shango is playing with the feelings of these gringos and alavez of oà ra Nancy Grace talk about situations that she does not even understand.

Shango on June 28th, 2005 3:06 am
Information the Simian left for 2 days was incorrect

His lordship brought nothing from the Hague

the simian listens to whisperings of the arawak tongue foolishly thinking he is an insider.

Anacaona on June 28th, 2005 3:09 am
1ro: gracias, si efectivamente recibes y transmites info antes the que llegue a las noticias.
2do: puede hacer toda las predicciones que quiera, pero la gente inteligente que cree en facts y no misticismo, no le pone mucha atencion (aunque entretiene)
3ro: Nancy Grace es una gringa histerica, no le hagas caso. La mayoria de la gente aca escucha fox.

Ultimamente, sigue contribuyendo…la gente que te ha leido desde un principio te tiene confianza y aprecian lo que haces : )
The 1st: thanks, if indeed receive and transmit the info before it reaches the news.
The 2nd can make any predictions you want, but intelligent people who cree on facts and not mysticism, not put a lot of attention (though entertaining)
The 3rd: Nancy Grace is a gringa hysterical, you do not. Most people here heard fox.
Lately, continues to contribute… people who have read the outset you have confidence and appreciate what you do:)


Good night everyone!

Simian on June 28th, 2005 3:10 am
Shango cannot understand PAPIAMENTO, otheriwse he would have already taken notice that he has been pinged.

If you really know more, you should spent the 8 days in jail eating peanut butter on stale bread with some cold tea. Just like Steve Croes.

Anacaona on June 28th, 2005 3:13 am
One more thing…I’ve been following the Shango saga for the past couple of days, and…I think Shango is the one who may be leading us astray. For those who think differently, take it all with a grain of salt…you may find yourself disappointed trying to decipher codes to non-existent people and places.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 07, 2008, 06:14:27 PM
How would Robalo33 know anything personal about Simian?

LOL.  If you ask how Shango knew anything about Simian you would be asking the same question.  We have all believed (at some point or the other) that Simian and Shango knew each other.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on August 07, 2008, 06:21:18 PM
How would Robalo33 know anything personal about Simian?

LOL.  If you ask how Shango knew anything about Simian you would be asking the same question.  We have all believed (at some point or the other) that Simian and Shango knew each other.


Shango on June 28th, 2005 1:55 am
Robalo33 on June 28th, 2005 1:58 am
Robalo33 on June 28th, 2005 2:10 am
Robalo33 on June 28th, 2005 2:13 am
Robalo33 on June 28th, 2005 2:15 am
Robalo33 on June 28th, 2005 2:16 am
Robalo33 on June 28th, 2005 2:21 am
Robalo33 on June 28th, 2005 2:22 am
Shango on June 28th, 2005 2:23 am
Shango on June 28th, 2005 2:24 am
Shango on June 28th, 2005 2:27 am
Shango on June 28th, 2005 2:29 am
Shango on June 28th, 2005 2:39 am
Shango on June 28th, 2005 2:45 am
Shango on June 28th, 2005 2:50 am
Shango on June 28th, 2005 2:59 am
Shango on June 28th, 2005 3:06 am


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 07, 2008, 06:25:51 PM
How would Robalo33 know anything personal about Simian?

LOL.  If you ask how Shango knew anything about Simian you would be asking the same question.  We have all believed (at some point or the other) that Simian and Shango knew each other.


Shango on June 28th, 2005 1:55 am
Robalo33 on June 28th, 2005 1:58 am
Robalo33 on June 28th, 2005 2:10 am
Robalo33 on June 28th, 2005 2:13 am
Robalo33 on June 28th, 2005 2:15 am
Robalo33 on June 28th, 2005 2:16 am
Robalo33 on June 28th, 2005 2:21 am
Robalo33 on June 28th, 2005 2:22 am
Shango on June 28th, 2005 2:23 am
Shango on June 28th, 2005 2:24 am
Shango on June 28th, 2005 2:27 am
Shango on June 28th, 2005 2:29 am
Shango on June 28th, 2005 2:39 am
Shango on June 28th, 2005 2:45 am
Shango on June 28th, 2005 2:50 am
Shango on June 28th, 2005 2:59 am
Shango on June 28th, 2005 3:06 am


They are the same person.  I have no doubt about that.

I believe Simian became very unnerved when Shango made the "Only David left the den alive" post.  If Shango truly knows something, then Simian is pizzed because that info should not be revealed.  If Shango does not know anything then he may have been fishing, using the name of someone he suspects.  Either way, my interpretation of this exchange is that post got an interesting reaction out of Simian.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 07, 2008, 11:14:16 PM
Who is David?  That be the question.

My upbringing teaches me that David was the second and greatest king of......Israel.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 07, 2008, 11:18:54 PM
Yes, Robalo and Shango used the same email address to submit their posts on the FP. 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: texasmom on August 08, 2008, 12:51:12 AM
Jeroen Westrate

http://www.peconicpuffin.com/the_peconic_puffin/2008/02/aruban-wrap-up.html

http://bulado.com/index.php?log_id=130&photo_id=469&related=

http://www.visitaruba.com/facts/newsdesk/backissues/newsletter25.html
snip:
"After Jeroen Westrate's retirement as a professional windsurfer this is the hope for Aruba, he is a potential winner."

MySpace.com - Dennis - 22 - Male - Santa Cruz - www...
Heroes, jeroen westrate and sarah offringa. Dennis's Details. Status: Single. Here for: Friends. Orientation: Straight...
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=99296957

http://windsurfingmag.com/article.jsp;jsessionid=72345F4A75131364CA7E0F60A867660A.pa12_windsurfingmag?ID=30917&typeID=100&categoryID=100
snip:
Baby Beach
This is the most recently "discovered" spot. Jeroen Westrate took me there for my first session, and I was glad I had the spot's most seasoned sailor to show me the way.


http://newsgroups.derkeiler.com/Archive/Rec/rec.windsurfing/2005-10/msg00059.html
 The best flatwater jumper I've ever heard of is Jeroen Westrate in
>> Aruba. I don't know if he sails there anymore (heard he moved to
>> Europe) but I've sailed behind him and seen him get 8 feet of air off

http://www.yy.co.za/need-love-X2f275c243Ja2t3zH3U2f2H3-south.htm

http://windsurfingmag.com/article.jsp?ID=30916&typeID=100&categoryID=100

April 7, 1999
Interview With Jeroen Westrate
By Dasher
Up-and-coming contenders for the international wave-sailing scene hail from places like Maui and California - domains where big water is king. How then can Aruba sailor Jeroen (pronounced ye-roon) Westrate - a man from a place where flat-water hero jibes are the main fare - be an incredibly talented wave sailor? The answer floats in the surf of Aruba's "other side" and lies deep in the belly of one very determined Arubian sailor. Westrate was quickly snapped up by Robby Naish as a Naish Sails team rider. He was featured in a flat-water loop photo sequence on the July 1995 cover of WindSurfing. His sponsors today include American Airlines and the Arubian government. We caught up with mild-mannered Westrate while he was on the losing side of a game of backgammon.

WindSurfing: Hey Jeroen, how's it goin'?
Westrate: I'm getting my butt kicked again.
Hey, it's just a game. So how can someone so bad at backgammon be so good at wave sailing?
Because backgammon is all about luck.
Were you lucky then to be born in Aruba?
Yeah, I was lucky to be born in Aruba, man, 'cause otherwise I'd probably be playing soccer or something.
How old were you when you started windsurfing?
Well, my dad taught me when I was 6. We sailed together for two years, but then he hurt his back and stopped. It took four years until I started windsurfing again.
Did you play soccer?
No, I was swimming and playing tennis.
Where on the island did you sail the most?
In front of my house.
Is that near Fisherman's Huts?
No, it's on the south side - flat water, sideshore wind. I didn't start wave sailing until I was 17 or 18, although I always jumped on the flat water. So I went to Boca Grandi a few times and I loved it! It's perfect to learn to wave-sail, especially to jump. That's how it started.
Is there a more challenging spot than Boca?
Westpoint and Baby Beach. On Westpoint, it rarely breaks bigger than logo-high, but when it does, it's perfect! When it's 10 to 12 feet, it's the ideal point break with cross-offshore winds. The best thing about it getting this size is you don't have to worry about the rocks anymore.
So what's Baby Beach like?
Very inconsistent. But when it works, it's awesome for big jumps because you can hit these waves head on at full speed. It's perfect for big back and front loops.
What's the ideal day for you wave sailing on Aruba?
My favorite spot is Westpoint, and anytime I can sail it when it's breaking over 4 feet and while I'm by myself - which still happens all the time - is perfect to me.
Does Westpoint get very crowded?
No, it doesn't, because all three spots are pretty inconsistent. So you have to know when to go. Also, Westpoint has rocks that you have to dodge while riding the waves, and that scares most people away.
How did wave sailing in Aruba prepare you for other spots around the world?
I learned all my basics in Aruba, even wave riding, which to me is the most important part of wave sailing and the most difficult. So, if you're able to do that before you go to a place like Maui, it helps incredibly.
And what's your secret to those clean loops off 2 inches of chop?
I make up an imaginary wave and then just simply jump it.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: finngirl on August 08, 2008, 01:07:43 AM
Who is David?  That be the question.

when did Dave Holloway meet w/ the buddhist psychic
at the VIP club/next door to the Lion's Den?

in his book, his recounting of that meeting
immediately follows his encounter
w/ a guy from TX on june 10
(pgs 45-54)

but it's not clear to me if both encounters
were on the same day

usually the timeline in his book is easy to follow:
the next morning/later that day/the following day/etc

sorta frustrating that I can't determine
when the Lion's Den meeting occurred
and june 10 is the last date mentioned
in those pages

anyone?



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: finngirl on August 08, 2008, 01:21:51 AM

something I was told by a guy who worked for a company
which lays submarine/undersea cable systems:
depending on the provider, aruban IPs may appear as
originating in FL (among other locations)

he's a techno-geek kinda guy
and swore up/down he knew this for a fact
before he ever heard of the Natalee Holloway case

I've looked at numerous submarine cable system maps
and seen the loops which exist between aruba/FL
but not sure how to verify which providers use which routes

http://www.kddi.com/english/business/oversea/pdf/kddi_gnm_en.pdf

http://www.iscpc.org/



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on August 08, 2008, 09:32:40 AM
Jeroen Westrate

http://www.peconicpuffin.com/the_peconic_puffin/2008/02/aruban-wrap-up.html

http://bulado.com/index.php?log_id=130&photo_id=469&related=

http://www.visitaruba.com/facts/newsdesk/backissues/newsletter25.html
snip:
"After Jeroen Westrate's retirement as a professional windsurfer this is the hope for Aruba, he is a potential winner."

MySpace.com - Dennis - 22 - Male - Santa Cruz - www...
Heroes, jeroen westrate and sarah offringa. Dennis's Details. Status: Single. Here for: Friends. Orientation: Straight...
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=99296957

http://windsurfingmag.com/article.jsp;jsessionid=72345F4A75131364CA7E0F60A867660A.pa12_windsurfingmag?ID=30917&typeID=100&categoryID=100
snip:
Baby Beach
This is the most recently "discovered" spot. Jeroen Westrate took me there for my first session, and I was glad I had the spot's most seasoned sailor to show me the way.


http://newsgroups.derkeiler.com/Archive/Rec/rec.windsurfing/2005-10/msg00059.html
 The best flatwater jumper I've ever heard of is Jeroen Westrate in
>> Aruba. I don't know if he sails there anymore (heard he moved to
>> Europe) but I've sailed behind him and seen him get 8 feet of air off

http://www.yy.co.za/need-love-X2f275c243Ja2t3zH3U2f2H3-south.htm

http://windsurfingmag.com/article.jsp?ID=30916&typeID=100&categoryID=100

April 7, 1999
Interview With Jeroen Westrate
By Dasher
Up-and-coming contenders for the international wave-sailing scene hail from places like Maui and California - domains where big water is king. How then can Aruba sailor Jeroen (pronounced ye-roon) Westrate - a man from a place where flat-water hero jibes are the main fare - be an incredibly talented wave sailor? The answer floats in the surf of Aruba's "other side" and lies deep in the belly of one very determined Arubian sailor. Westrate was quickly snapped up by Robby Naish as a Naish Sails team rider. He was featured in a flat-water loop photo sequence on the July 1995 cover of WindSurfing. His sponsors today include American Airlines and the Arubian government. We caught up with mild-mannered Westrate while he was on the losing side of a game of backgammon.

WindSurfing: Hey Jeroen, how's it goin'?
Westrate: I'm getting my butt kicked again.
Hey, it's just a game. So how can someone so bad at backgammon be so good at wave sailing?
Because backgammon is all about luck.
Were you lucky then to be born in Aruba?
Yeah, I was lucky to be born in Aruba, man, 'cause otherwise I'd probably be playing soccer or something.
How old were you when you started windsurfing?
Well, my dad taught me when I was 6. We sailed together for two years, but then he hurt his back and stopped. It took four years until I started windsurfing again.
Did you play soccer?
No, I was swimming and playing tennis.
Where on the island did you sail the most?
In front of my house.
Is that near Fisherman's Huts?
No, it's on the south side - flat water, sideshore wind. I didn't start wave sailing until I was 17 or 18, although I always jumped on the flat water. So I went to Boca Grandi a few times and I loved it! It's perfect to learn to wave-sail, especially to jump. That's how it started.
Is there a more challenging spot than Boca?
Westpoint and Baby Beach. On Westpoint, it rarely breaks bigger than logo-high, but when it does, it's perfect! When it's 10 to 12 feet, it's the ideal point break with cross-offshore winds. The best thing about it getting this size is you don't have to worry about the rocks anymore.
So what's Baby Beach like?
Very inconsistent. But when it works, it's awesome for big jumps because you can hit these waves head on at full speed. It's perfect for big back and front loops.
What's the ideal day for you wave sailing on Aruba?
My favorite spot is Westpoint, and anytime I can sail it when it's breaking over 4 feet and while I'm by myself - which still happens all the time - is perfect to me.
Does Westpoint get very crowded?
No, it doesn't, because all three spots are pretty inconsistent. So you have to know when to go. Also, Westpoint has rocks that you have to dodge while riding the waves, and that scares most people away.
How did wave sailing in Aruba prepare you for other spots around the world?
I learned all my basics in Aruba, even wave riding, which to me is the most important part of wave sailing and the most difficult. So, if you're able to do that before you go to a place like Maui, it helps incredibly.
And what's your secret to those clean loops off 2 inches of chop?
I make up an imaginary wave and then just simply jump it.




Jeroen…knew I had seen the name before…

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2733.msg370872#msg370872

« Reply #1033 on: April 04, 2008, 12:48:50 AM »jackb

From the Aruba News News Desk:

Good news for education

The minister of Education, Mary Wever met the press at the University of Aruba this week, Wednesday. Also in attendance Jeroen van Rijen the rector of that 12-year-old school. He gave an academic overview of the institution's activities and outlined its future vision. He then introduced the Director of Part-time Programs at the CHN Leewarden University, Ernest Jonker. The visitor gave a presentation of the local university's new phase of development, namely the introduction of a Part-time Bachelor's degree in hospitality, offered on Aruba to members of hospitality middle management aspiring to accelerate their careers and move into higher management functions.

Apparently, the two local Law and Business/Economics faculties have been doing very well graduating Aruban professionals who find it easy to secure employment once their diplomas are in hand.

During the press conference, the university announced its intention to expand and include hospitality. It partnered with an excellent Dutch learning source. Van Rijn called it the #1 Hotel & Management Training Institute within the Kingdom of the Netherlands. It is the University of Professional Education, CHN Leeuwarden, who was willing to develop within three years full time Bachelor and Master programs of hospitality management on the island.

That's really constitutes good news. Tourism is an economic pillar of our community and the ability to get educated right at home, saves cost and allows middle management, people already working in the field, an opportunity they never had before. Studies will be conducted in the classroom and via internet, and the admission criteria are quite high. There are academic requirements, language requirements and mostly the program doesn't come cheap, yet it is a fraction of the effort it takes to educate a tourism professional overseas.

School will start in October, and officials set their sight on 10 candidates, just to break even the first year. Having conquered tourism, the university will in the future also offer an additional academic curriculum, opening a Center of Financial Regulations Studies with short post-graduate courses given to professionals by professionals.

One last detail, the University of Aruba is located in town, adjacent to the San Francisco church, across the post-office. The colonial building is blessed with outstanding architecture, a gorgeous inner patio, and a tranquil fishpond. It is the Caribbean's answer to an old New England boarding school. A perfect learning environment.






Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on August 08, 2008, 09:38:06 AM
Who is David?  That be the question.

My upbringing teaches me that David was the second and greatest king of......Israel.

David Fisiitalia, mother's maiden name Weber and worked US Customs...David is all over Joran's book. Explains Ms Jean Akers...and a lot of other things... ::MonkeyWink::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 08, 2008, 10:33:44 AM
Who is David?  That be the question.

My upbringing teaches me that David was the second and greatest king of......Israel.

David Fisiitalia, mother's maiden name Weber and worked US Customs...David is all over Joran's book. Explains Ms Jean Akers...and a lot of other things... ::MonkeyWink::

So do you think Shango is implying that this David was involved, but never identified as a witness or suspect?  Maybe....The only problem I have right now with applying this David to Shango's David is that I have a lot of doubts about Wee Winky Van Der Sloot using the correct name of anyone who was truly involved if they had not already been spotlighted by either the media or ALE. 

When looking at the Shango post I feel that the use of 'David' may not be the actual name of the person he refers to...just because Shango was never that direct about anything.  I do, however, believe that his use of that name strongly points to a particular individual...you just have to know the connection.  I think Simian did and assumed that many that were reading the FP would know...even if those people were not posting. (FBI, Beth or Dave, etc.)  If Simian believed it was incriminating enough to 'hit back' sotospeak with an angry post, I can't help but believe that it can be figured out.

I ain't givin' up yet.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 08, 2008, 10:37:06 AM
Yes, Robalo and Shango used the same email address to submit their posts on the FP. 

Well, at the risk of stating the obvious, I assume someone along the way sent emails to that address and got no responses????


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 08, 2008, 11:44:21 AM
Yes, Robalo and Shango used the same email address to submit their posts on the FP. 

Well, at the risk of stating the obvious, I assume someone along the way sent emails to that address and got no responses????

Actually, I just read some old S/S posts and I think Klaas is saying that the posts originated from the same IP address, but different email addresses.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 08, 2008, 12:47:19 PM

something I was told by a guy who worked for a company
which lays submarine/undersea cable systems:
depending on the provider, aruban IPs may appear as
originating in FL (among other locations)

he's a techno-geek kinda guy
and swore up/down he knew this for a fact
before he ever heard of the Natalee Holloway case

I've looked at numerous submarine cable system maps
and seen the loops which exist between aruba/FL
but not sure how to verify which providers use which routes

http://www.kddi.com/english/business/oversea/pdf/kddi_gnm_en.pdf

http://www.iscpc.org/



Absolutely true!  If you know how to do this and it shows a proxy IP when it happens according to my computer geeky guy that would know because that is his job to do that stuff.  The best way to find out for sure is to call the provider and query them about the actual IP location. 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 08, 2008, 03:11:16 PM
Yes, Robalo and Shango used the same email address to submit their posts on the FP. 

Well, at the risk of stating the obvious, I assume someone along the way sent emails to that address and got no responses????

Actually, I just read some old S/S posts and I think Klaas is saying that the posts originated from the same IP address, but different email addresses.

You are correct.  Thanks for catching that.  I knew better than to post something when I am tired.  BTW I did email Robalo33...five times...no response...but it didn't bounce back to me...so it must still be a legit addy.  Anyway, I truly have the hardest time placing both Shango and Robalo as one and the same since they are in different cities.  But regardless, we will never know the truth for sure, but this is one reason I have my doubts that they served any purpose other than to distract us from the truth.  Nevertheless, they are a great way to pass time when bored.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 08, 2008, 03:25:29 PM
Why do you say they are in different cities?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on August 08, 2008, 05:17:04 PM
http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/sh-usn/usnsh-r/ss273.htm


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on August 08, 2008, 05:49:55 PM
http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/sh-usn/usnsh-r/ss273.htm

Ah!...Fremantle, one of my old stomping grounds!

This was a little before my time though...

Father and son...right?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 08, 2008, 06:07:37 PM
Why do you say they are in different cities?

Good question.  LOL I guess I should say I thought we were told they were in different cities. Maybe I read it in a convo between one of the FP posters, just like I learned some of the other stuff.  I really can't remember now that you asked me.   Dang!  Truthseeker. I have to be on my toes with you.   ::MonkeyHaHa::



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 08, 2008, 06:10:18 PM
As long as I am confusing the issue...let's remember that Caps thought Alex Mathews could have been Shango.  I think we established the fact that he was not in KIA at the time of the postings.  I would have to go back and find it if anyone is curious. 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on August 08, 2008, 06:11:14 PM
Who is David?  That be the question.

My upbringing teaches me that David was the second and greatest king of......Israel.

David Fisiitalia, mother's maiden name Weber and worked US Customs...David is all over Joran's book. Explains Ms Jean Akers...and a lot of other things... ::MonkeyWink::

David (Dave) Holloway
David Kock (Kalpoe atty)
David Wever (is it spelled Weijer in Nederlands?)
David Stacey (disappearance of Max Devires - 14 yr old staying at Aruba H.I)

My guess is the last one. He came back with scratches on his face (didn't Joran also have scratches?) , and ALE allowed him to take a shower before he met with Max's mom.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 08, 2008, 06:52:45 PM
Who is David?  That be the question.

My upbringing teaches me that David was the second and greatest king of......Israel.

David Fisiitalia, mother's maiden name Weber and worked US Customs...David is all over Joran's book. Explains Ms Jean Akers...and a lot of other things... ::MonkeyWink::

David (Dave) Holloway
David Kock (Kalpoe atty)
David Wever (is it spelled Weijer in Nederlands?)
David Stacey (disappearance of Max Devires - 14 yr old staying at Aruba H.I)

My guess is the last one. He came back with scratches on his face (didn't Joran also have scratches?) , and ALE allowed him to take a shower before he met with Max's mom.

What about David Shahriari...now former GM of the Marriott.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on August 08, 2008, 06:57:50 PM
Who is David?  That be the question.

My upbringing teaches me that David was the second and greatest king of......Israel.

David Fisiitalia, mother's maiden name Weber and worked US Customs...David is all over Joran's book. Explains Ms Jean Akers...and a lot of other things... ::MonkeyWink::

So do you think Shango is implying that this David was involved, but never identified as a witness or suspect?  Maybe....The only problem I have right now with applying this David to Shango's David is that I have a lot of doubts about Wee Winky Van Der Sloot using the correct name of anyone who was truly involved if they had not already been spotlighted by either the media or ALE. 

When looking at the Shango post I feel that the use of 'David' may not be the actual name of the person he refers to...just because Shango was never that direct about anything.  I do, however, believe that his use of that name strongly points to a particular individual...you just have to know the connection.  I think Simian did and assumed that many that were reading the FP would know...even if those people were not posting. (FBI, Beth or Dave, etc.)  If Simian believed it was incriminating enough to 'hit back' sotospeak with an angry post, I can't help but believe that it can be figured out.

I ain't givin' up yet.


Truthseeker…I keep going back and forth with David Fisiitalia? If he was the David, why use his real name? Unless, as I said before…Joran’ is arrogant! Both he and Paulus mentioned the FBI in their PVs in reference to Eric Williams. Joran also mentioned an Agent Smit,((sp) from the US Embassy. Some Embassies do have DEA attached to them, but I am not sure that there were any FBI on Curacao. They are not stationed there for the Caribbean.

Jean Akers is the one that makes me think American. Her being at Joran’s get out of jail party! Then that could be something else. She did her Masters at the University of Amersterdam. I think Geoffrey Wever who works at Croes Wever and Tchong may have been there at the same time. He fits the age that we were told for Guido Wever originally, around 24 at the time. Would have to check old posts on that one.

Poochy mentioned David Wever, supposedly Guido’s brother. All the confusion from Tito with Lorenzo Wever in the beginning. I believe this was deliberate, to hide some-one. Ss found 2 Guido Wevers.

We have lots of Florida connections to this case. A big red flag with me is why were the family or their lawyers were not permitted into the US/Aruba Washington meeting? Chata’s post with the FBI reference set me off all over again…LOL…Then it may be something as simple as political blackmail by Aruba…Forward Operating Posts, Venezuela, Columbia…but I would love to know exactly what Aruba told the US officials in that meeting…

Not giving up either...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on August 08, 2008, 07:32:53 PM
As long as I am confusing the issue...let's remember that Caps thought Alex Mathews could have been Shango.  I think we established the fact that he was not in KIA at the time of the postings.  I would have to go back and find it if anyone is curious. 


Lala's...Thanks for the reminder about Mathew. Need to go back and see whether his company that he says has an office in Aruba is in the phone book or on the Chamber list. Last I looked it wasn't.

Strange that he can go back and forth, deep sea fishing when he is there, but Carlos Severino Tromp can't go back to see his family. They had similar problems with Aruban officials, one goes back, one can not.

Hopefully I will have some time next week to revisit Alex and his ex-wife...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on August 08, 2008, 07:42:27 PM
Who is David?  That be the question.

My upbringing teaches me that David was the second and greatest king of......Israel.

David Fisiitalia, mother's maiden name Weber and worked US Customs...David is all over Joran's book. Explains Ms Jean Akers...and a lot of other things... ::MonkeyWink::

David (Dave) Holloway
David Kock (Kalpoe atty)
David Wever (is it spelled Weijer in Nederlands?)
David Stacey (disappearance of Max Devires - 14 yr old staying at Aruba H.I)

My guess is the last one. He came back with scratches on his face (didn't Joran also have scratches?) , and ALE allowed him to take a shower before he met with Max's mom.

What about David Shahriari...now former GM of the Marriott.

Not familiar with that one...guess I need to google!  ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on August 08, 2008, 07:58:30 PM
Who is David?  That be the question.

My upbringing teaches me that David was the second and greatest king of......Israel.

David Fisiitalia, mother's maiden name Weber and worked US Customs...David is all over Joran's book. Explains Ms Jean Akers...and a lot of other things... ::MonkeyWink::

So do you think Shango is implying that this David was involved, but never identified as a witness or suspect?  Maybe....The only problem I have right now with applying this David to Shango's David is that I have a lot of doubts about Wee Winky Van Der Sloot using the correct name of anyone who was truly involved if they had not already been spotlighted by either the media or ALE. 

When looking at the Shango post I feel that the use of 'David' may not be the actual name of the person he refers to...just because Shango was never that direct about anything.  I do, however, believe that his use of that name strongly points to a particular individual...you just have to know the connection.  I think Simian did and assumed that many that were reading the FP would know...even if those people were not posting. (FBI, Beth or Dave, etc.)  If Simian believed it was incriminating enough to 'hit back' sotospeak with an angry post, I can't help but believe that it can be figured out.

I ain't givin' up yet.


Truthseeker…I keep going back and forth with David Fisiitalia? If he was the David, why use his real name? Unless, as I said before…Joran’ is arrogant! Both he and Paulus mentioned the FBI in their PVs in reference to Eric Williams. Joran also mentioned an Agent Smit,((sp) from the US Embassy. Some Embassies do have DEA attached to them, but I am not sure that there were any FBI on Curacao. They are not stationed there for the Caribbean.

Jean Akers is the one that makes me think American. Her being at Joran’s get out of jail party! Then that could be something else. She did her Masters at the University of Amersterdam. I think Geoffrey Wever who works at Croes Wever and Tchong may have been there at the same time. He fits the age that we were told for Guido Wever originally, around 24 at the time. Would have to check old posts on that one.

Poochy mentioned David Wever, supposedly Guido’s brother. All the confusion from Tito with Lorenzo Wever in the beginning. I believe this was deliberate, to hide some-one. Ss found 2 Guido Wevers.

We have lots of Florida connections to this case. A big red flag with me is why were the family or their lawyers were not permitted into the US/Aruba Washington meeting? Chata’s post with the FBI reference set me off all over again…LOL…Then it may be something as simple as political blackmail by Aruba…Forward Operating Posts, Venezuela, Columbia…but I would love to know exactly what Aruba told the US officials in that meeting…

Not giving up either...


The last one is the only one that came out alive. He went with deVries and only David Stacey came back alive. There's a David Stacey who was a truck driver who literally smashed two motorcyclists into another truck - in the U.S. Max's mother said they stayed in Aruba a week, yet did not have much luggage at all. David was there with his 'adopted son' -in his 30's. Max's mom said looking back now at Natalee's disappearance, none of it makes any sense to her wrt her son's disappearance.

If it is David Stacey, Shango says (June 28, 2005 at 1:55am) "Find the music. ONly David left the den alive. " then the den has to be on a boat - if that is where David lured Max on Max's fateful day.

But then we this Shango quote (June 27, 2005 at 8:04 pm):
The gods are talking. DirtyHand is alive and well.

Do you think the reference to DirtyHand being ALIVE, and only David left the den ALIVE could be related? As in DirtyHand =David? DirtyHand, who is alive and well? (just tossin' it out there !)

And I truly agree - Lorenzo, Renzo, van Rijn (ahem can anybody say Rembrandt Harmenszoon van Rijn as in the famous painter?) and Wever and Weijer and however else you spell their names - yeah, I'd say we were being taken for a ride.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 08, 2008, 08:07:03 PM
I am wide open on who Shango may have be talking about.  You make a good argument with your post.  I still haven't settled on any one individual yet.

As for the "alive" connection, if DH and David are the same person, then none of the Davids seem like they could command the type of fear and concern that Shango describes.  Or, we don't really know enough about all of them.

I think Lorenzo was a red herring.  They tried to pin this on the two security guards and Beth saw right through that one.  They needed someone else to try and pin it on.  Lorenzo's rep on the island made him a good candidate.  imho


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 08, 2008, 08:30:33 PM
I am wide open on who Shango may have be talking about.  You make a good argument with your post.  I still haven't settled on any one individual yet.

As for the "alive" connection, if DH and David are the same person, then none of the Davids seem like they could command the type of fear and concern that Shango describes.  Or, we don't really know enough about all of them.

I think Lorenzo was a red herring.  They tried to pin this on the two security guards and Beth saw right through that one.  They needed someone else to try and pin it on.  Lorenzo's rep on the island made him a good candidate.  imho

Throwing another kink in here about Lorenzo.  As you know I would love for him to be part of all this, but the only reason I suspect him is because the very, very first person ever  mentioned was Lorenzo and his blue van. It was mentioned by Checkme, Americaninaruba, and several others.  That was at the very beginning before anyone had time to organize the cover up on a massive scale.  Having said that, it does not make him involved, just that he was on the radar at first and then was either dismissed as a suspect or was told to leave him out of it regardless.  He has some sort of influence because he literally walked off scot-free from drug charges later.  The others that were arrested are paying their dues and he is not.  MOO


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on August 08, 2008, 09:03:40 PM
I am wide open on who Shango may have be talking about.  You make a good argument with your post.  I still haven't settled on any one individual yet.

As for the "alive" connection, if DH and David are the same person, then none of the Davids seem like they could command the type of fear and concern that Shango describes.  Or, we don't really know enough about all of them.

I think Lorenzo was a red herring.  They tried to pin this on the two security guards and Beth saw right through that one.  They needed someone else to try and pin it on.  Lorenzo's rep on the island made him a good candidate.  imho

Throwing another kink in here about Lorenzo.  As you know I would love for him to be part of all this, but the only reason I suspect him is because the very, very first person ever  mentioned was Lorenzo and his blue van. It was mentioned by Checkme, Americaninaruba, and several others.  That was at the very beginning before anyone had time to organize the cover up on a massive scale.  Having said that, it does not make him involved, just that he was on the radar at first and then was either dismissed as a suspect or was told to leave him out of it regardless.  He has some sort of influence because he literally walked off scot-free from drug charges later.  The others that were arrested are paying their dues and he is not.  MOO

Lala’s…I think the cover-up was well and truly in place by June 10th…Freddy mentioned by a poster on June 9th…I haven’t seen Lorenzo yet…still on June 10th. Checkme and americaninaruba may have been posting in the Forum then...still on the FP…

Oh and Julia’s on TV…Natalee seen sick/drunk in the ladies’ room?

chantell on June 10th, 2005 2:21 pm

one of the accused, Satish, his site is still up… check it out
http://spaces.msn.com/members/thebestone10/

langosta on June 10th, 2005 2:27 pm

wow! You know what blows me away…through ALL this going on, he’s UPDATING his “spaces” page!!! the “Friends” were updated just TWO days ago and the “Aruba” section was updated on the 4th!! HELL-LLLOOOO…someone you DROPPED OFF AT A HOTEL IS MISSING and you were the last one to see her ALIVE!!!!! how ’bout helping in the freaking SEARCH!

Tom on June 10th, 2005 2:27 pm (talking about tickle sites)

Ashley
We tried to link to it yesterday but the account had already been shut down.
Tom

chantell on June 10th, 2005 2:28 pm

Joran’s msn profile…

http://members.msn.com/default.msnw?guids=6XKlWX0flEdSwxM0r*naQjOKK!*DVyALfe8Ib0t9s1yYCkjrShrDUzDDM7HBilK*qj



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on August 08, 2008, 09:20:39 PM
I am wide open on who Shango may have be talking about.  You make a good argument with your post.  I still haven't settled on any one individual yet.

As for the "alive" connection, if DH and David are the same person, then none of the Davids seem like they could command the type of fear and concern that Shango describes.  Or, we don't really know enough about all of them.

I think Lorenzo was a red herring.  They tried to pin this on the two security guards and Beth saw right through that one.  They needed someone else to try and pin it on.  Lorenzo's rep on the island made him a good candidate.  imho


Beth sure stirred up a hornets nest the night she said the word "Lorenzo" On The Record with Greta....for this reason I would tend to disagree

Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
The Babylonians hands are not dirty.

 Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
Nobody is a boob. The alibi needs to be destroyed. Daddy knows who was there. He has answers too.

Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
The Kalpoes know nothing. They will remain locked up for lying and obstructing the investigation.
Did I say something about a blue van? I don’t think so.
However, I feel CheckMe is jumping on my bandwagon. E ta OK swa…

re: DirtyHand
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:09 pm
Simian, who else plays in the orchestra? A Babylonian….

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:43 pm
Did the babylonians like to make movies?
From the tears, a new river will spring forth….


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 08, 2008, 09:27:19 PM
So...the discussion of Lorenzo began when Beth mentioned it on Greta?  If so, where did she get his name?  They were running Beth and Jug all over the place with misinformation.  Did someone drop Lorenzo's name to them?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on August 08, 2008, 09:28:58 PM

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 8:06 pm
Babalu opened a window looking into Babylon on his 12:31 A.M. post

Babalú Says: June 27th, 2005 at 12:30 am
Concerned: No, I guess he is head of some local official corps. He is the guy that knows everything and that has been in the house of Babylonians NOT seeking pleasure for himself, so Shango says. So maybe he went to search for (watch?) Natalee and he is the chief of Polis.


Babalú Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:26 pm
The kidnapper is not Aruban
Van Rijn can not be pressured
The FBI would close in on the whole operation
The Arubans are prepared to give somebody as a token culprit
They will not sacrifice Steve Croes (Freddie)

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 9:48 pm
Babalu knew who dirty hand was at half past 12

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:42 pm
Arawaks hold singing card from babylon
There is also a trio. One Babylonian. 2 Shivas.
Arawaks can’t let babylonian Card (DirtyHand) sing because hand holding it dirty too.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:01 pm
Arawaks often go to play in small houses of Babylon with the offspring of the Elders



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on August 08, 2008, 09:29:43 PM
So...the discussion of Lorenzo began when Beth mentioned it on Greta?  If so, where did she get his name?  They were running Beth and Jug all over the place with misinformation.  Did someone drop Lorenzo's name to them?


That is not what I said


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 08, 2008, 09:31:11 PM
So...the discussion of Lorenzo began when Beth mentioned it on Greta?  If so, where did she get his name?  They were running Beth and Jug all over the place with misinformation.  Did someone drop Lorenzo's name to them?


That is not what I said

Well...what did you say????????


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 08, 2008, 09:41:34 PM

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 8:06 pm
Babalu opened a window looking into Babylon on his 12:31 A.M. post

Babalú Says: June 27th, 2005 at 12:30 am
Concerned: No, I guess he is head of some local official corps. He is the guy that knows everything and that has been in the house of Babylonians NOT seeking pleasure for himself, so Shango says. So maybe he went to search for (watch?) Natalee and he is the chief of Polis.


Babalú Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:26 pm
The kidnapper is not Aruban
Van Rijn can not be pressured
The FBI would close in on the whole operation
The Arubans are prepared to give somebody as a token culprit
They will not sacrifice Steve Croes (Freddie)

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 9:48 pm
Babalu knew who dirty hand was at half past 12

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:42 pm
Arawaks hold singing card from babylon
There is also a trio. One Babylonian. 2 Shivas.
Arawaks can’t let babylonian Card (DirtyHand) sing because hand holding it dirty too.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:01 pm
Arawaks often go to play in small houses of Babylon with the offspring of the Elders



Not sure what you are trying to say hear either because the posts you chose here are not even in the order in which they were posted.  Not even on the same days.

Babalu's June 26th, 2005 at 9:26 pm post is a spitball interpretation of this:

Shango Says:June 26th, 2005 at 9:19 pm
DirtyHand is not an Arawak
The singing card can not be played
The cowboys would circle the wagons
The arawaks are preparing the sacrifice
light the fires
the gods are talking


Shango gives him no credit for getting anything right.

Shango DOES credit him for his June 27th, 2005 at 12:30 am post regarding Dirty Hand.  This was AFTER Babalu tried interpreting the post form the 26th.

So exactly what point were you trying to make?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on August 08, 2008, 09:45:33 PM
So...the discussion of Lorenzo began when Beth mentioned it on Greta?  If so, where did she get his name?  They were running Beth and Jug all over the place with misinformation.  Did someone drop Lorenzo's name to them?


That is not what I said

Do you believe that the first mention of Lorenzo was by Beth on Greta? Did I post that anywhere?
Well...what did you say????????


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on August 08, 2008, 09:47:03 PM
Ts2:

sorry 'bout that post-this was left out-

Do you believe that Beth was the first to mention Lorenzo on Greta? Is this your interpretation of my post?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 08, 2008, 10:00:09 PM
Ts2:

sorry 'bout that post-this was left out-

Do you believe that Beth was the first to mention Lorenzo on Greta? Is this your interpretation of my post?

My interpretation of your post is that you believe the discussions about Lorenzo moved into high gear after Beth mentioned him on Greta's show.  During that time Beth was receiving a lot of B/S information from people on Aruba.  By the time the posts from Simian and Shango hit the internet the cover up was in full swing with mis-informers posting rampantly all over the place. 

I just don't see anything linking Joran to Lorenzo other than a rumor that Lorenzo was Paulus illegit son.  As far as I know that has never been proven by anyone.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on August 09, 2008, 06:38:46 AM
Ts2:

sorry 'bout that post-this was left out-

Do you believe that Beth was the first to mention Lorenzo on Greta? Is this your interpretation of my post?

My interpretation of your post is that you believe the discussions about Lorenzo moved into high gear after Beth mentioned him on Greta's show.  During that time Beth was receiving a lot of B/S information from people on Aruba.  By the time the posts from Simian and Shango hit the internet the cover up was in full swing with mis-informers posting rampantly all over the place. 

I just don't see anything linking Joran to Lorenzo other than a rumor that Lorenzo was Paulus illegit son.  As far as I know that has never been proven by anyone.


your interpretation is not correct.......the statement was long after the discussion had begun, and the response from officials in Aruba was terse. After all of her statements using words like "drugged" and "raped" why officials in Aruba would make comments to the effect "she's hindering the investigation" when she used the word "Lorenzo" was quite strange-particularly given Dennis Jacobs remark that he had nothing to do with the investigation.

Do you find this at all peculiar???


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 09, 2008, 09:30:53 AM
OK. OK. Lorenzo was a red herring.  I won't even mention what Beth told me at a book signing concerning Lorenzo since she is the one that brought it up first.  I don't care what anyone thinks, Lorenzo was the first person mentioned in this mess.  He was on the locals radar from the beginning because of his reputation.  He had wild parties that involved drugs and porn videos.  He was known by that stuff.  That is why he was mentioned...he seemed likely to be the person that would "know" something or be in a position to help Joran.  He was rumored to be the "supplier" of all things on the island.  He used others to sell his wares and keep him out of the loop.  His place was a fortress.  He was not a celebrity so why did he need security guards and such?  Even Simian probably played a gig at some of his parties. Everyone thought Lorenzo was a bad guy. 

A few things we need to remember about Lorenzo and then I will let it go.

1. He lived in an area that it is reported that a phone call originated from Joran's cell phone the next morning around 6 AM.  Don't anyone ask me for the info, I have no idea how to find it...it's in the Natalee threads and not in Shango.

2. He has been rumored and widely so, to be Paulus relative. This was from several in Aruba. Not just Bondia/Glenda/Julia.

3. He was arrested for drug possession later on and was out in no time flat.  A little talk with the judge and it was over. 

4. He was questioned at least once on the Dr. Phils documents, but I have seen places where others have found him reported to have been questioned from the beginning.  Just because Jacobs says he's not involved does not make it so in my book.  Jacobs was as dirty a hand as you can get in all this.

That's all I am saying on Lorenzo any more.  Let's move on.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on August 09, 2008, 10:38:02 AM
So...the discussion of Lorenzo began when Beth mentioned it on Greta?  If so, where did she get his name?  They were running Beth and Jug all over the place with misinformation.  Did someone drop Lorenzo's name to them?

I've watched this case since day one - I truly recall a name tossed out 'LORENZO WEVER". I also remember reseraching the name, and found that WEVER is sometimes spelled WEIJER or WIEJER or even WIEDER in the Netherlands/Nederland.

I heard Lorenzo Wever mentioned once. From then on it became "David Wever". Then it turned into Guido Wever.

I have always felt there is a Lorenzo involved, just maybe not the "blue van" 'crazy guy' Lorenzo. JMHO. Not sure how involved, but early on one of them said his name, and that was the last we ever heard of that name again. It was then assumed it was confused with Lorenzo van Rijn (if a descendant of Rembrandt, how would it look to the Orange throne if he was involved)? Then I recall reading that a Lorenzo Wever/Weijer was an employee of the HI Ca$ino, also playing the tables and friends of Guido Wever.

So was the name Lorenzo Wever/Weijer confused with Guido Wever, who pranced off the island onto safer shores, and who's mummy apparently wore the pants in that family by threatening anybody who so much as said anything about her son on the internet?

If we get the full video footage of what was broadcast on TV from the inside of the HI ca$ino maybe we'll find out something. Remember there are those on the other side the pond who know more than what they are saying (Guido Wever, et al), and there is security footage..." Maybe that is why Posnr was ticked off the footage meant only for ALE was also shown on TV. Someone is shown on that full length footage we're not suppose to see.   

BLACK NUMBERS - IMPLIES ROULETTE OR CRAPS - two clues in this one - CRAPS and NATALEE's FATEFUL MISSING DATE:
5/16/06 7:16 AM  the grey whisper said... [Joran's friend Freddy or Freddy Deeb"]
is Freddy’s purse tied to the black numbers///// texan, the answer is in the numbers 01 06 05. who are the other guests at that charade?

THIS ONE IS VERY CLEAR:
5/16/06 the grey whisper said... texan [Dan in Tx], the answer lies at the roulette table.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on August 09, 2008, 01:01:22 PM
I’m not ready to give Lorenzo a free pass either…My path to Freddy made sense…Lala’s, Poochy and COLOMBO’s path to Lorenzo makes sense…

Guido was questioned on 6/3, or so they say. Also on 6/7 and 6/8. He went to Holland, but we have been told that some-one else left for Holland immediately after Natalee disappeared. I thought I read that Lorenzo went, anyone? Also David Wever and Max Arendz.

When were the first mentions of Lorenzo and his blue van? Was it SM or somewhere else?  FP or forum? TIA

Darn need to choose a path and stick with it???


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: finngirl on August 09, 2008, 02:01:06 PM
I’m not ready to give Lorenzo a free pass either…My path to Freddy made sense…Lala’s, Poochy and COLOMBO’s path to Lorenzo makes sense…

Guido was questioned on 6/3, or so they say. Also on 6/7 and 6/8. He went to Holland, but we have been told that some-one else left for Holland immediately after Natalee disappeared. I thought I read that Lorenzo went, anyone? Also David Wever and Max Arendz.
"a" Lorenzo, not "the" Lorenzo
if you believe Titodidshenotaskforit Lacle

he was doing a Q/A session at SM
and when asked about Lorenzo/meaning LvR
he came off w/ Lorenzo Wever

who, after some research, turned into Guido Wever
 :roll:

When were the first mentions of Lorenzo and his blue van? Was it SM or somewhere else?  FP or forum? TIA
SM was my only hangout

IIRC, mentioned in the FP before the forum
cuz the FP existed before forum was created:
blue van/crazy painted van

Darn need to choose a path and stick with it???
what? and make the rest of us look bad? LOL


also this, to GinoX from a poster
at the aruba speed shop forum/early june 2005
and translated from papi

aruba speed shop owner/Maxito Arendsz
speed shop forum webmaster/Andry Lopez aka Peeps
(who brought us LvR-in-crazy-painted-van photo)

I know you meant L and his deceased father of VW. I am straight to the point.
 
You mean the american chick that was seen holding hands with Lorenzo? Where did this come from?

Was it not the story that she went out and got into a car with a dutchboy and 2 surinamese?

Now I don't now if I am getting paranoid or crazy but the beginning of last week my neighbor told me they have detained Lorenzo and he was involved in the case. I was shocked when they said a dutch person was involved and this makes me think it is him.

Couple of days later they released the name of Joran then I thought oh, it is not Lorenzo who I thought initially.

What puzzled me was when I read a couple of days ago that they searched Joran's at his house.

But this house looks a lot like Lorenzo's house in Jaraweg/Sav.

Then I thought what is happening? Am I paranoid or what?

What is the connection of Lorenzo and Joran in this case?

And if it is so, why is Lorenzo's name not mentioned in the media?

And what made me put this post on GinoX?

Gino could you or someone else clear this thing up please!





Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 09, 2008, 09:19:25 PM
Ts2:

sorry 'bout that post-this was left out-

Do you believe that Beth was the first to mention Lorenzo on Greta? Is this your interpretation of my post?

My interpretation of your post is that you believe the discussions about Lorenzo moved into high gear after Beth mentioned him on Greta's show.  During that time Beth was receiving a lot of B/S information from people on Aruba.  By the time the posts from Simian and Shango hit the internet the cover up was in full swing with mis-informers posting rampantly all over the place. 

I just don't see anything linking Joran to Lorenzo other than a rumor that Lorenzo was Paulus illegit son.  As far as I know that has never been proven by anyone.


your interpretation is not correct.......the statement was long after the discussion had begun, and the response from officials in Aruba was terse. After all of her statements using words like "drugged" and "raped" why officials in Aruba would make comments to the effect "she's hindering the investigation" when she used the word "Lorenzo" was quite strange-particularly given Dennis Jacobs remark that he had nothing to do with the investigation.

Do you find this at all peculiar???

Whatever dude.  I won't waste my time chasing Lorenzo anymore.  Or reading disjointed posts.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on August 09, 2008, 10:40:01 PM
I found some old notes - and am posting them here for you all to read:

"... Do you know Lorenzo o's last name?  I knew about Claudia, and how the HI guy transfered from Jamaica to Aruba, then out of Aruba - wonder where he went next? I didn't know Claudia mentioned she wanted to see the "great house."

So there was a game in the great house - YA KNOW, I ALWAYS FELT SOME OF THOSE ONLINE GAMES WERE LITERALLY PLAYED IN REAL LIFE. MAYBE THERE WAS SOME SORT OF DUNGEONS AND DRAGONS GAME OR LIKE THAT IN TODAY'S TERMS (CANNIB.) THAT IS PLAYED IN THE GREAT HOUSE OR A HOUSE LIKE IT IN ARUBA. (just tossin' it out there!)   Here's also something interesting..for what it's worth! that dream i had the other night - after I dropped my kid off at the bus stop I detoured around to find that house - and it sits on a street called South Hill Road. The side street is Highland Avenue, but then the street turns into Washington Ave, which is parallel to Lincoln Ave, parallel to McKinley! (maybe I had masons prez's on my mind)  But the house next door where my hubby pulled into the driveway (in my dream) was the only house ont he block decorated with halloweenie stuff - front yard had tons of gravestones, ghosts flying all over (sheets) etc. found it ironic.... 

"xxxxx" wrote:
The Lorenzo whose last name began with "O"
worked in food service both in Jamaica and Aruba
Believe he was there when Claudia went missing.

Working in the area of The Great House near Kingston 
I believe that Claudia went to this place as she had mentioned wanting to.

The Great House was owned by notorious VooDoo Queen
Case is remarkably similar to Natalee's


"zzzz wrote"...
i woke up thinking jeffry dahmer may have had a 'david' who got out alive - but googled and that wasn't the case. interesting - perhasp this is the lorenzo - maybe all he got was a cut off hand...and was then moved off the island. i recall googling and this guy was in jamaica when the reporter went missing.  there was also a 'david' who befriended a woman and her young kid at the holiday inn - only he came back alive from a jet ski incident - they never found the boy....and they thruew wreaths into the water like they did to natalee - before ever searching for the kids body. always wondered if this was the kid they found in the dunes - his body parts.

"xxxx wrote xxx":
Lorenzo David Wever
only David left the den alive?

"zzz wrote"
found another 'lorenzo' - worth checking out. a while ago i recall googling this guy and found he was in jamaica - when that lady reporter went missing....(I think it was him.)  http://bfnbackup.16.forumer.com/a/hiram-vrolijk-friend-of-joran_post77-30.html  Scorpio38-I Sting- 05-27-2006
Guido Wever, is the punk kid arrested, and a blackjack dealer at the Excelsior Casino. Lorenzo David Wever, is the long gone Casino Manager, who departed Aruba within days of Natalee going missing, as did, Michael Posner, owner of the HI and the Excelsior Casino, and Paul "Mr. Pink" Brough, who allegedly is a brothel and porn operator in the Caribbean region.
 isn't this guy 'pantyboy'?   del sol - sunworship...'mansion' - interesting choice of words. WHERE IS Tierra Del Sol Mansion  IS IT A 'WHITE HOUSE'?? opus2- 05-28-2006Re: Hiram Vrolijk friend of Joran
does anyone know Hiram Vrolijk? he is pictured in the Venzeula picture with Joran...I found a Vrolijk that works at Setar (the place CCroes works)...also I found Hiram at his birthday party at "Tierra Del Sol Mansion"...does anyone know of this mansion? is it in Aruba? who owns it? http://www.guiafashion.com/fashion/internacional/11-06-05 happybirthhiram/index.htm http://www.consumer.att.com/global/english/consumer_information/ cc_aruba.html These links do not open for me...I'd be interested in a photo of HIRAM... Epecially at this BDay Party at a Tierra del Sol Mansion. TIA! Scorpio: Thanks for the info about Lorenzo David Wever/Casino Mgr.   who is Johan Stellingwerf??? Rammstein68- 05-28-2006
You Americans can better help find this Johan Stellingwerf, a real bad guy, instead of going crazy on an innocent boy. first of all, although Joran is innocent until proven other wise does not make him innocent. He has made himself look very suspicious by lying on numerous occasions. secondly, if the dutch police and dutch public aren't able to find Johan Stellingwerf (and yes, I know it is not usual for dutch suspects to be fully named and identified in the press but in this case that was done due to the dangerous nature of this individual and the need to find him ASAP) then the american public or police will be equally unable. let's get back to the topic please, and if either you want to discuss Johan Stellingwerf you can open a thread in the "Off Topic section".


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 09, 2008, 11:03:24 PM
Do you know if anyone was ever able to detemine if there was a Lorenzo David Wever?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: texasmom on August 09, 2008, 11:45:26 PM
Do you know if anyone was ever able to detemine if there was a Lorenzo David Wever?

I know I probably have some information saved about him, finding it is the problem....
this is a link where he was discussed before.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2733.1140


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on August 10, 2008, 07:08:57 AM
OK. OK. Lorenzo was a red herring.  I won't even mention what Beth told me at a book signing concerning Lorenzo since she is the one that brought it up first.  I don't care what anyone thinks, Lorenzo was the first person mentioned in this mess.  He was on the locals radar from the beginning because of his reputation.  He had wild parties that involved drugs and porn videos.  He was known by that stuff.  That is why he was mentioned...he seemed likely to be the person that would "know" something or be in a position to help Joran.  He was rumored to be the "supplier" of all things on the island.  He used others to sell his wares and keep him out of the loop.  His place was a fortress.  He was not a celebrity so why did he need security guards and such?  Even Simian probably played a gig at some of his parties. Everyone thought Lorenzo was a bad guy. 

A few things we need to remember about Lorenzo and then I will let it go.

1. He lived in an area that it is reported that a phone call originated from Joran's cell phone the next morning around 6 AM.  Don't anyone ask me for the info, I have no idea how to find it...it's in the Natalee threads and not in Shango.

2. He has been rumored and widely so, to be Paulus relative. This was from several in Aruba. Not just Bondia/Glenda/Julia.

3. He was arrested for drug possession later on and was out in no time flat.  A little talk with the judge and it was over. 

4. He was questioned at least once on the Dr. Phils documents, but I have seen places where others have found him reported to have been questioned from the beginning.  Just because Jacobs says he's not involved does not make it so in my book.  Jacobs was as dirty a hand as you can get in all this.

That's all I am saying on Lorenzo any more.  Let's move on.



I won't even mention what Beth told me at a book signing concerning Lorenzo since she is the one that brought it up first.  

Pretty Please Lala's...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on August 10, 2008, 07:11:10 AM
Do you know if anyone was ever able to detemine if there was a Lorenzo David Wever?


Truthseeker…I recall finding an obit for this guy…he died the day before Jacobs interviewed Audreyselda Wever?  There is further on him somewhere in Shango1…will see if I can find it later…

Quote…
 Jacobus Lorenzo ‘David’ Wever that died at age 69, jackb said he left for Holland, may have been the manager at the HI casino

Name: Audreyselda Wever
Date: 16 March 2006/11:10
Pages: 2
Writer/initiator: Dennis Jacobs
Description: witness statement


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on August 10, 2008, 08:03:37 AM
I’m not ready to give Lorenzo a free pass either…My path to Freddy made sense…Lala’s, Poochy and COLOMBO’s path to Lorenzo makes sense…

Guido was questioned on 6/3, or so they say. Also on 6/7 and 6/8. He went to Holland, but we have been told that some-one else left for Holland immediately after Natalee disappeared. I thought I read that Lorenzo went, anyone? Also David Wever and Max Arendz.
"a" Lorenzo, not "the" Lorenzo
if you believe Titodidshenotaskforit Lacle

he was doing a Q/A session at SM
and when asked about Lorenzo/meaning LvR
he came off w/ Lorenzo Wever

who, after some research, turned into Guido Wever
 :roll:

When were the first mentions of Lorenzo and his blue van? Was it SM or somewhere else?  FP or forum? TIA
SM was my only hangout

IIRC, mentioned in the FP before the forum
cuz the FP existed before forum was created:
blue van/crazy painted van

Darn need to choose a path and stick with it???
what? and make the rest of us look bad? LOL ::MonkeyLaugh::


also this, to GinoX from a poster
at the aruba speed shop forum/early june 2005
and translated from papi

aruba speed shop owner/Maxito Arendsz
speed shop forum webmaster/Andry Lopez aka Peeps
(who brought us LvR-in-crazy-painted-van photo)

I know you meant L and his deceased father of VW. I am straight to the point.
 
You mean the american chick that was seen holding hands with Lorenzo? Where did this come from?

Was it not the story that she went out and got into a car with a dutchboy and 2 surinamese?

Now I don't now if I am getting paranoid or crazy but the beginning of last week my neighbor told me they have detained Lorenzo and he was involved in the case. I was shocked when they said a dutch person was involved and this makes me think it is him.

Couple of days later they released the name of Joran then I thought oh, it is not Lorenzo who I thought initially.

What puzzled me was when I read a couple of days ago that they searched Joran's at his house.

But this house looks a lot like Lorenzo's house in Jaraweg/Sav.


Then I thought what is happening? Am I paranoid or what?

What is the connection of Lorenzo and Joran in this case?

And if it is so, why is Lorenzo's name not mentioned in the media?

And what made me put this post on GinoX?

Gino could you or someone else clear this thing up please!





Finngirl…

There is another post either on the FP or at RWV that says this same thing?  It is referring to the arrest/non arrest of June 11th. The poster said that it was the same house as one of the other suspects was arrested at.

I am reading 6/11 FP now and if I don’t see it there I will check at RWV. Remember the rumors that Joran was staying at Lorenzo’s?…picked up for school on the way to his house?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on August 10, 2008, 09:03:16 AM
I’m not ready to give Lorenzo a free pass either…My path to Freddy made sense…Lala’s, Poochy and COLOMBO’s path to Lorenzo makes sense…

Guido was questioned on 6/3, or so they say. Also on 6/7 and 6/8. He went to Holland, but we have been told that some-one else left for Holland immediately after Natalee disappeared. I thought I read that Lorenzo went, anyone? Also David Wever and Max Arendz.
"a" Lorenzo, not "the" Lorenzo
if you believe Titodidshenotaskforit Lacle

he was doing a Q/A session at SM
and when asked about Lorenzo/meaning LvR
he came off w/ Lorenzo Wever

who, after some research, turned into Guido Wever
 :roll:

When were the first mentions of Lorenzo and his blue van? Was it SM or somewhere else?  FP or forum? TIA
SM was my only hangout

IIRC, mentioned in the FP before the forum
cuz the FP existed before forum was created:
blue van/crazy painted van

Darn need to choose a path and stick with it???
what? and make the rest of us look bad? LOL ::MonkeyLaugh::


also this, to GinoX from a poster
at the aruba speed shop forum/early june 2005
and translated from papi

aruba speed shop owner/Maxito Arendsz
speed shop forum webmaster/Andry Lopez aka Peeps
(who brought us LvR-in-crazy-painted-van photo)

I know you meant L and his deceased father of VW. I am straight to the point.
 
You mean the american chick that was seen holding hands with Lorenzo? Where did this come from?

Was it not the story that she went out and got into a car with a dutchboy and 2 surinamese?

Now I don't now if I am getting paranoid or crazy but the beginning of last week my neighbor told me they have detained Lorenzo and he was involved in the case. I was shocked when they said a dutch person was involved and this makes me think it is him.

Couple of days later they released the name of Joran then I thought oh, it is not Lorenzo who I thought initially.

What puzzled me was when I read a couple of days ago that they searched Joran's at his house.

But this house looks a lot like Lorenzo's house in Jaraweg/Sav.


Then I thought what is happening? Am I paranoid or what?

What is the connection of Lorenzo and Joran in this case?

And if it is so, why is Lorenzo's name not mentioned in the media?

And what made me put this post on GinoX?

Gino could you or someone else clear this thing up please!





Finngirl…

There is another post either on the FP or at RWV that says this same thing?  It is referring to the arrest/non arrest of June 11th. The poster said that it was the same house as one of the other suspects was arrested at.

I am reading 6/11 FP now and if I don’t see it there I will check at RWV. Remember the rumors that Joran was staying at Lorenzo’s?…picked up for school on the way to his house?




Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:48 pm
The boy told the Hindus that he didn’t need their help anymore. This was in the small hours.
The confrontation was brutal.  So who heeded his call? Who switched places?
People…the bloodied, swollen tongue. The boy’s fear runs deep.
They accuse him to be Bifrons.


Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:04 pm
Are the children of the elders there, or did they flee to Babylon?
DirtyHand knows, this is his Power
there will be 46 sacrifices


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 10, 2008, 10:55:11 AM
OK. OK. Lorenzo was a red herring.  I won't even mention what Beth told me at a book signing concerning Lorenzo since she is the one that brought it up first.  I don't care what anyone thinks, Lorenzo was the first person mentioned in this mess.  He was on the locals radar from the beginning because of his reputation.  He had wild parties that involved drugs and porn videos.  He was known by that stuff.  That is why he was mentioned...he seemed likely to be the person that would "know" something or be in a position to help Joran.  He was rumored to be the "supplier" of all things on the island.  He used others to sell his wares and keep him out of the loop.  His place was a fortress.  He was not a celebrity so why did he need security guards and such?  Even Simian probably played a gig at some of his parties. Everyone thought Lorenzo was a bad guy. 

A few things we need to remember about Lorenzo and then I will let it go.

1. He lived in an area that it is reported that a phone call originated from Joran's cell phone the next morning around 6 AM.  Don't anyone ask me for the info, I have no idea how to find it...it's in the Natalee threads and not in Shango.

2. He has been rumored and widely so, to be Paulus relative. This was from several in Aruba. Not just Bondia/Glenda/Julia.

3. He was arrested for drug possession later on and was out in no time flat.  A little talk with the judge and it was over. 

4. He was questioned at least once on the Dr. Phils documents, but I have seen places where others have found him reported to have been questioned from the beginning.  Just because Jacobs says he's not involved does not make it so in my book.  Jacobs was as dirty a hand as you can get in all this.

That's all I am saying on Lorenzo any more.  Let's move on.



I won't even mention what Beth told me at a book signing concerning Lorenzo since she is the one that brought it up first.  

Pretty Please Lala's...

Let's just say he was on everyone's radar from the beginning...for supplying drugs to the other lower minions to sell or use for their pleasure.  He was the first person that was mentioned as the place that Joran would take someone to a party.  The FP posters were not the first persons to think about Lorenzo and his being involved...it was ALE.  That is all I am saying.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Kermit on August 10, 2008, 12:30:28 PM
"Rumors are that Paulus van der Sloot before he was married to
Anita, had an affair with Van Rijn's mother and the result
was Lorenzo van Rijjn.

Kermit's NOTE: THAT WAS CONFIRMED BY JOSSY


Another Aruban blogger from another site wrote that some of Natalee's
belongings were found at Van Rijn's house."
http://coffeepotghost.com/NATALEE_HOLLOWAY_CASE_LORENZO_LARRY_VAN_RIJN.html



Lorenezo Van Rijn was brought in for questioning and owns a van.
Source: http://www.majorwager.com/fusetalk/messageview.cfm?
catid=22&threadid=133972&FTVAR_MSGDBTABLE=&STARTPAGE=3



LORENZO van Riijn:
http://photo.tickle.com/image/2/4/6/P7/2462781P7063382009.jpg
http://photos17.flickr.com/19750689_d40429047b_0.jpg (it has been removed)



Van Rijn Lorenzo and Max Arendzs were detained and questioned on Friday
Max Arrends gave alibi for Lorenzo:
http://forums.go.com/abc/thread?threadID=454720&forumStart=0

Lorenzo Van Rijn's country house is in Seroe Alejandro
van Rijks(1981) fathers(r.i.p.) was the owner of VW dealership. he comitted suicide a couple of yrs ago.. Rumours say his wife killed him and pretended it was a suicide. God forgive me if I heard wrong info.
Huge house in Savaneta, on main road to San Nicolaas.
Jaraweg is in San Nicolaas area.


kermits NOTE: SAN NICOLAAS IS WHERE THE SECURITY GUARDS LIVED AND ALSO WHERE THE FIRST SEARCHES WERE DONE
BY JUDY HASSELL - ARUBA POLIS



Ge0rge
In the early hours of May 31 when Natalee's parents, friends, Charles C. and some police men went over to the VDS home at about 3 a.m.... would they have noticed this monkey? In the middle of the night? Making lots of noice? Or not?NO.
Was Lorenzo, Max.. seen on the tape of the surveillance camera of the casino at the Holiday Inn, talking to Natalee?Unconfirmed reports have it that she had a dinner with Lorenzo on May 27 or/and 29.
LovelyPigeon
Here's some of what BHT said to Greta, from transcript of show that aired June 15 http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,159779,00.html



Per AmericaninAruba:
The Lorenzo guy who was questioned yesterday is known for having
underground parties at one of his houses. The house is rather isolated
and surrounded by lots of brush & cactus.
Supposedly one of them was painted really crazy.



“Island Hopper
“Rumors have it that…Van Rijn’s mother had an affair with Paul Van Der Sloot (before he was married to his current wife) and the result was Lorenzo Van Rijn (23). - no I’m not making this up. Lorenzo is close friends with Joran (his half brother?) Natalee was being kept at Van Rijn’s house and is still alive. Police found some of Natalee’s belongings at Van Rijn’s house, but she has been moved to another house..” found on another site


Checkme wrote above: new girl, you know, small society, extended families, no secrets, family knows everything. this guy has a bad profile, father into drugs, himself dealing, driving expensive cars, crashing them, not working, father killing himself because of a drug/alcohol induced depression. in short, no solid upbringing, wrong connections, careless, living above the law. somehow not getting caught. Bad boy waiting on the wall to hit him?



new girl Says:
June 29th, 2005 at 12:23 am

I also think it is POSSIBLE that there was a setup of sorts and Lorenzo actually left his house to meet up with Joran at the beach somewhere, hence the lack of witnesses to whatever happened to Natalee. However, Shango was indicating that the XTC “maze” music thing was the atmosphere, hence his clue that “Babylonians don’t make sandcastles” i.e. they don’t mess around in the sand. Especially when they have privacy available and mean to cause harm to someone.


subdude Says:
June 29th, 2005 at 12:34 am

newgirl: Shango seemed to suggest that police chief had dirty hands and new about these raves and what went on.

Police chief complicit in drug trade is not much of a stretch. Aruba is small and a “trampoline” for drug trade. Would not be unusual for police to know the flow.

To be clear, I am not knocking Aruba — same thing goes on in US, right here in Miami. Not necessarily police chief, but small number of cops are dirty — that is reality.


A dirty cop would not point the finger at the dealer who could expose him. He would lead investigation away from rave at drug dealer’s house.

new girl Says:
June 29th, 2005 at 12:35 am
Subdude, back to Shango’s clues:

DirtyHand the polis chief has been to the maze and walks through all houses. INCLUDING this one. But he does not go there to seek pleasures.

So why does he go? To collect his $$ for allowing these raves to go on and on while everyone else’s are busted? Or is it more sinister? Does it involve drug trade or something sexually inappropriate?

Shango also suggested that the children of “Babylonian” government officials / important people hang out at these rave parties. Why don’t they come forward?

Maybe they are scared that if Lorenzo is crazy and murders dogs and gang-rapes and kills innocent tourists, he might hurt them too. Especially if the police are somehow complicit in this.

And what of their parents, the ruling Dutch officials? Are they also complicit in some way? Is this a house of cards the kids don’t want to bring down?


clevfan
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Posts: 8256
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06/23/2005 9:51 PM    
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It is widely suspected on the island that the girl was kidnapped, it is believed that others are involved in this, namely the son (Lorenzo Van Rijn) of a VW auto dealer that hung himself a couple yrs ago. Apparently the son is heavily into the drug trade and other things as well and is quite wealthy but kinda off his rocker, he's feared by many on the island due to the fact that so many find him so sinister. His home is one of the only homes on the island which has a basement and the rumors are flying that he connects to Natalee's disappearance.


clevfan
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Posts: 8256
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07/03/2005 0:30 AM    
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these are suspect sites:

www.mrpinkproductions.com

www.guide2paradise.com


both are run by a guy orginally from michigan by the name of paul brough. he is good friends with lorenzo van rijn

old sites are: www.getlegalhookers.com and www.metronightlife.com



arubagirl wrote:
I know that right now I'm being an information tease, but it's just ridiculous that I'm afraid that I'm going to be howled out of the message board.
Deep sigh Here goes:
According to neighbours of van Rijn's mom, this lady had an affair with v/d Sloot before he was married to his current wife, and the result was Lorenzo van Rijn. Natalee was held at Lorenzo's house (who lives alone), since he has a basement (not many houses here have a basement). Natalee has been moved from house to house belonging to those that are in the plan (don't know what plan that is). They are afraid to kill her what with everybody focusing on the case.
Look, I KNOW. I KNOW. It's sounds to utterly fantastic and ridiculous. Please don't kill me, troll me, flame me. Not for this. I WANT it to be true, that she is still alive.
An Aruban blogger from another site wrote that some of Natalee's belongings were found at Van Rijn's house...
I've also seen it posted by Claire on 6/19 3:28pm on RWV



omega
Scared Monkey
Joined: 31 Jul 2005

PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 9:02 pm    Post subject:    Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote
Riehl World View: Fourth Man
Lorenzo is the son of the deceased VW car dealer, seems to be very much related to ... Financial Bank on Aruba is represented by the law-firm Croes & Wever...
http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2005/06/fourth_man.html - 92k -


IamTito wrote:
Lorenzo Wever  was sent to Holland soon after the event.. he was a casino person.. his father currently leads a political party on the island..


erin_go_bragh:
Tito, are you aware of any Lorenzo’s involving the case? There is an alleged Lorenzo from Holland (now lives in Aruba) that might have eaten dinner with Natalee during her trip to Aruba. Allegedly, he's around 27 and might have something to do with drugs...

TITO: HE LEFT FOR HOLLAND.. IF HIS NAME IS WEVER, THAT IS..

As far as Lorenzo... dont have a picture

as far as the misleading theory.. hmmmm
IamTito




IamTito
Joined: 10 Aug 2005
Location: aruba
   
PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 9:17 pm    Post subject:    Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote
Lorenzo Wever was sent to Holland soon after the event.. he was a casino person.. his father currently leads a political party on the island..







It has been rumored that there is a cell phone record from 6:20AM the morning Natalee went missing from Steve Croes to Joran.


kermit NOTE: TITO SAID LORENZO WAS SENT to Holland
Kermit NOTE: that area Santa Lucia is where Steve Croes lives and ALSO DAIRO JARISON (not sure if that is the correct spelling and on on lazy sunday time.




Compananzi
Monkey Junkey
Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 1:04 am

Local Casino Dealer mysteriously skipped town to Holland...Interrogation also occurring in Holland in the Natalee case.

ORANJESTAD: Information has been circulating for a couple of days that a local Casino Dealer, male, who was working in the one of the Highrise Hotel Casino, right after the dissapearanc eof Natalee, skipped town and went to Holland.

After the Dealer went on his flight, rumors started that this young man also knows the 3 suspects, Joran van der Sloot and also know the bros. Deepak, and Satish Kalpoe.

This important detail, clearly has reached the ears of the local authorities, about the sudden trip of this Dealer, whose in Holland currently.


Sources indicate, and new information that Diario has made available points to the Dealer in question, whose trip went to Holland, was interrogated on more then 2 occasions by Aruban and Dutch authorities relating to the Natalee case.

It appears that the Dealer W confirms that he knows Joran, but we could not determine if during the interrogation if he brought forward that he knows the bros. Kapoes or not.

Up to now in this 2 months long Natalee case, information are still circulating that this Dealer in question might know something about this case

To prevent rumors, Diario has confirmation from the local authorities, whose during the interrogation also were mentioning the high tailing of this dealer., which they were able to get Dutch counterparts to interrogate this youth with Initials W, whilst he was in Holland. All details of this interrogation will be sent back to Aruba.
_________________
Various wever info:

Aliansa - (Aliansa Democratico Arubano)
Aruban Democratic Alliance

Party color: Purple Description and meaning of the Logo: - Ideology: Founded: May 19, 2001
Current data of the Party: Party leader - Wever; Robert F. Chairman - Wever; Ricardo R. Treasurer - Janga; Raymundo Secretary - Werleman; Eugenia I. Members of committee - - Angela; Karen - van de Linden; Olivia URL - http://www.aliansaaruba.org/ History & Other data: click here to see the statute. (Dutch) Further updates soon! Participation in Elections: Date of Election: September 23, 2005 Party leader - Wever; Robert Frederick
Date of Election: September 28, 2001 Party leader conducting campaign - Wever; Robert Frederick
Acquired seats in the Staten of Aruba - 0 Cabinet - Oduber III Period - 2001 - present
http://www.aliansaaruba.org/


6/16/05-----Lorenzo Van Rijn was brought in by Aruban police for questioning but was not held. According to Tito, he was considered a possible suspect at that time.
6/16/05-----Max Arendsz was brought in by Aruban police for questioning. It has been stated that he was the “alibi” for LVR.


Jun 29, 2005 1:09 PM

My little spunky monkey... yes, I concur, I too, had the bestest time with you at Warped! From jammin' out together with Brittnie, Dutch & Lorenzo, to seein' Sammy Haggar/Puck at Bennegins, to posin' like a Victoria's Secret model for you & Dutch, to my Touretts gettin' the best of me... all in a Tuesday's fun! Love ya girl! Talk to you later on!
http://www.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewProfile&friendID=7892828&Mytoken=20050203010636



*******, I personally know Lorenzo very well and since he (to my knowledge) isn't guilty or plays a part in the NH case I'd rather refrain from giving out personal info.

What is known (was in the papers), the police (way in the beginning) got an anonimous tip by phone, and went (without a searchwarrant and were allowed)to search his house and question him. Nothing was found, he also had an alibi and that settled it.
Him being PdvS son is a rumour that started during the NH case. I think because Lorenzo's dad's name was Paul too, they are both Dutch etc. that rumour started. But there is no truth to it.

More I can't tell you about him. Lorenzo is a guy who luckily does not hang out on the Internet (so he will not read some of the ludicrous things posted about him) and has no pictures online. Non of the pictures you've seen online claiming to be him, is him.

Posted by: Dolores | Aug 31, 2005 9:33:45 AM
http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2005/08/natalee_hollowa_75.html






Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on August 10, 2008, 12:59:38 PM
Thanks Kermit...According to Joran's book he was transferred from Noord to KIA on 6/20. Was Jacobs at Noord? Is this where most of the witnesses were questioned?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: texasmom on August 10, 2008, 02:11:23 PM
http://www.mementomori.net/06069.html
Jacobus Lorenzo Wever Obit

I thought he was part of the Croes Wever Tchong Law Office...if I saved that information I can't find it...and it's no longer on the website.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: texasmom on August 10, 2008, 02:23:18 PM
About Beth's Book signing...and the Lorenzo question.  I was looking for something else this morning and ended up there....

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2269.160


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on August 10, 2008, 04:02:10 PM
http://www.mementomori.net/06069.html
Jacobus Lorenzo Wever Obit

I thought he was part of the Croes Wever Tchong Law Office...if I saved that information I can't find it...and it's no longer on the website.

Thanks Texasmom for both links...It is still there...

Rudolf M. Wever
 
Aruba, * January 24, 1943 - † Aruba, February 7, 2007

http://www.lawyersaruba.com/modules/sections/index.php?op=viewarticle&artid=11

I don't have any more on the other one in my notes or I just can't find it either. Not sure where I got the day before from, but will try and find the original post on him, as I thought I posted before on him. I remember seeing the "David" in his name...need to keep everything I guess...call name as I think Caps refers to it.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Pita on August 10, 2008, 04:11:24 PM
http://www.mementomori.net/06069.html
Jacobus Lorenzo Wever Obit

I thought he was part of the Croes Wever Tchong Law Office...if I saved that information I can't find it...and it's no longer on the website.

STICHTING DERDENGELDEN CROES WEVER TCHONG 
 
Business address SEROE PITA 22, PARADERA 
Legal form  FOUNDATION 
Name of the STICHTING DERDENGELDEN CROES WEVER TCHONG 
company/foundation/association:
Statutory seat  ARUBA 
Date of 20 DECEMBER 2006 
incorporation/commencement:
     
   
BOARD MEMBERS/AUTHORIZED PERSONS  
 
CROES, HENDRIK SEFERINO
Residing in  SEROE PITA 22, PARADERA, ARUBA 
Born in  ARUBA on 8 JANUARY 1942 
Nationality  DUTCH 
Position  PRESIDENT 
Effective  20 DECEMBER 2006 
Authority  FULL 
   
WEVER, RUDOLF MARCOLINO
Residing in  SPAANS LAGOENWEG 21, SAVANETA, ARUBA 
Born in  ARUBA on 24 JANUARY 1943 
Nationality  DUTCH 
Position  SECRETARY 
Effective  20 DECEMBER 2006 
Authority  FULL 
   
TCHONG, PETRUS JOANNES
Residing in  BYRONSTRAAT 13, ORANJESTAD, ARUBA 
Born in  ARUBA on 26 DECEMBER 1944 
Nationality  DUTCH 
Position  TREASURER 
Effective  20 DECEMBER 2006 
Authority  FULL 
   


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 10, 2008, 05:01:18 PM
Since some have implied that I have changed my story about Lorenzo...please note that what I have said about Lorenzo being the drug dealer is the same as I said when this post was made.  This is something I have said all along.  Lorenzo was a curious character that is my favorite subject but brings out the wolves on any given day to defend him when he is accused of being the drug supplier and famous party guy. I have yet to understand that.  Also it would be wise to keep in mind that I was told several things at that book signing that I was asked to keep to myself.  One of which was about Natalee and my own daughter.  So for everyone that has told everyone else I have changed my story...thanks TM for posting that. I appreciate it. So, if everyone reads more into what I said and thinks whatever that is fine with me. Our one and only Bondia avoided the subject as well.  She did however jump at the chance to get a photo of Vadir van Loon...that is same person that Beth talks about in her book.  The one Jacobs didn't seem to want anything to do with. Everyone that could be named was dragged through the dirt in Aruba except Lorenzo. Yet, he was arrested for growing marijuana on his property and walks away free and clear.  What kind of leverage is that?  Was Lorenzo working undercover for someone?   Was that why Babalu said "he could not be touched"?  I will maintain from things I have been told by those close to this case that Lorenzo was the "pimps" big time dealer. 




Lala'sMom

Re: Natalee Case Discussion #687 10/22 -
« Reply #166 on: October 23, 2007, 10:57:24 AM »
   
Shortly after, Beth began signing books so everyone got in line to wait.  I was on a mission to get a book signed for a very special person.  So I walked to the back of the line and waited.  I did not see any monkeys, but I am sure SB was in the crowd.  I do remember several people that were in front of me that could have been SB. I saw Charlierat sitting in a chair near the front. I knew it was him immediately, but I just kept quiet, there were a lot of people there. I did take his photo as I was standing in line.  I waited patiently to get to the front and as I walked up to Beth I told her I was Lala'smom from Sacred Monkeys.  She smiled really big. I mentioned the name of the person I was getting the book for and she and I began talking. I told her I would like to ask her a question concerning a person mentioned many times on SM and that was Lorenzo.  Her eyes perked up and she said...Lorenzo was first mentioned to her by Karen Janssen in one of their meetings very early on as being the local ecstasy supplier on the island. That was all she ever really learned about him other than he was reported to be related to the Sloots.  She said the monkeys knew more about Lorenzo than she did.  KJ never told her any more than he was questioned and suspected as being the drug supplier or involved only peripherally as using his connections in some way to help the Sloots.  So we are no closer to learning anything there.


She was so amazed at how the monkeys seemed to have their finger on anything that relates to this case.  I then asked her about the PHONE CALL.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 10, 2008, 05:32:02 PM
Lala's

I have no issues with whatever your thoughts are regarding Lorenzo.  I have mine and others disagree.  No problem.

My interest in now on Shango.  Shango stopped posting on June 30th, as best I can tell.  Simian chose to take on other nicknames and continue his posting.  Do you know of any other nicknames Shango may have used after June 30th?  If so, do you know if the posts were saved anywhere?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: texasmom on August 10, 2008, 05:32:49 PM
I think I had my Wever's confused... ::MonkeyConfused::imagine that!

Sorry about that..... ::MonkeyCool::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on August 10, 2008, 07:37:18 PM
Texasmom...we are supposed to be confused...that was there plan...I wish I had saved that with the "David" in it...I wonder whose Grandfather he might have been?

Truthseeker...one reason I started rereading the FP posts is to see if any posters morphed into some-one else...not sure if I will be able to tell though... ::MonkeyHaHa::

Going to post some in Finngirl's Forget/Remember thread, hopefully tomorrow!  Now if I could only remember the name of that thread... ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on August 10, 2008, 07:42:43 PM
"Rumors are that Paulus van der Sloot before he was married to
Anita, had an affair with Van Rijn's mother and the result
was Lorenzo van Rijjn.

Kermit's NOTE: THAT WAS CONFIRMED BY JOSSY

Another Aruban blogger from another site wrote that some of Natalee's
belongings were found at Van Rijn's house."
http://coffeepotghost.com/NATALEE_HOLLOWAY_CASE_LORENZO_LARRY_VAN_RIJN.html


Lorenezo Van Rijn was brought in for questioning and owns a van.
Source: http://www.majorwager.com/fusetalk/messageview.cfm?
catid=22&threadid=133972&FTVAR_MSGDBTABLE=&STARTPAGE=3



LORENZO van Riijn:
http://photo.tickle.com/image/2/4/6/P7/2462781P7063382009.jpg
http://photos17.flickr.com/19750689_d40429047b_0.jpg (it has been removed)



Van Rijn Lorenzo and Max Arendzs were detained and questioned on Friday
Max Arrends gave alibi for Lorenzo:
http://forums.go.com/abc/thread?threadID=454720&forumStart=0

Lorenzo Van Rijn's country house is in Seroe Alejandro
van Rijks(1981) fathers(r.i.p.) was the owner of VW dealership. he comitted suicide a couple of yrs ago.. Rumours say his wife killed him and pretended it was a suicide. God forgive me if I heard wrong info.
Huge house in Savaneta, on main road to San Nicolaas.
Jaraweg is in San Nicolaas area.


kermits NOTE: SAN NICOLAAS IS WHERE THE SECURITY GUARDS LIVED AND ALSO WHERE THE FIRST SEARCHES WERE DONE
BY JUDY HASSELL - ARUBA POLIS



Ge0rge
In the early hours of May 31 when Natalee's parents, friends, Charles C. and some police men went over to the VDS home at about 3 a.m.... would they have noticed this monkey? In the middle of the night? Making lots of noice? Or not?NO.
Was Lorenzo, Max.. seen on the tape of the surveillance camera of the casino at the Holiday Inn, talking to Natalee?Unconfirmed reports have it that she had a dinner with Lorenzo on May 27 or/and 29.
LovelyPigeon
Here's some of what BHT said to Greta, from transcript of show that aired June 15 http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,159779,00.html



Per AmericaninAruba:
The Lorenzo guy who was questioned yesterday is known for having
underground parties at one of his houses. The house is rather isolated
and surrounded by lots of brush & cactus.
Supposedly one of them was painted really crazy.



“Island Hopper
“Rumors have it that…Van Rijn’s mother had an affair with Paul Van Der Sloot (before he was married to his current wife) and the result was Lorenzo Van Rijn (23). - no I’m not making this up. Lorenzo is close friends with Joran (his half brother?) Natalee was being kept at Van Rijn’s house and is still alive. Police found some of Natalee’s belongings at Van Rijn’s house, but she has been moved to another house..” found on another site


Checkme wrote above: new girl, you know, small society, extended families, no secrets, family knows everything. this guy has a bad profile, father into drugs, himself dealing, driving expensive cars, crashing them, not working, father killing himself because of a drug/alcohol induced depression. in short, no solid upbringing, wrong connections, careless, living above the law. somehow not getting caught. Bad boy waiting on the wall to hit him?



new girl Says:
June 29th, 2005 at 12:23 am

I also think it is POSSIBLE that there was a setup of sorts and Lorenzo actually left his house to meet up with Joran at the beach somewhere, hence the lack of witnesses to whatever happened to Natalee. However, Shango was indicating that the XTC “maze” music thing was the atmosphere, hence his clue that “Babylonians don’t make sandcastles” i.e. they don’t mess around in the sand. Especially when they have privacy available and mean to cause harm to someone.


subdude Says:
June 29th, 2005 at 12:34 am

newgirl: Shango seemed to suggest that police chief had dirty hands and new about these raves and what went on.

Police chief complicit in drug trade is not much of a stretch. Aruba is small and a “trampoline” for drug trade. Would not be unusual for police to know the flow.

To be clear, I am not knocking Aruba — same thing goes on in US, right here in Miami. Not necessarily police chief, but small number of cops are dirty — that is reality.


A dirty cop would not point the finger at the dealer who could expose him. He would lead investigation away from rave at drug dealer’s house.

new girl Says:
June 29th, 2005 at 12:35 am
Subdude, back to Shango’s clues:

DirtyHand the polis chief has been to the maze and walks through all houses. INCLUDING this one. But he does not go there to seek pleasures.

So why does he go? To collect his $$ for allowing these raves to go on and on while everyone else’s are busted? Or is it more sinister? Does it involve drug trade or something sexually inappropriate?

Shango also suggested that the children of “Babylonian” government officials / important people hang out at these rave parties. Why don’t they come forward?

Maybe they are scared that if Lorenzo is crazy and murders dogs and gang-rapes and kills innocent tourists, he might hurt them too. Especially if the police are somehow complicit in this.

And what of their parents, the ruling Dutch officials? Are they also complicit in some way? Is this a house of cards the kids don’t want to bring down?


clevfan
captain
Posts: 8256
Joined: Jul 2002
   
06/23/2005 9:51 PM    
User is offline View users profile

It is widely suspected on the island that the girl was kidnapped, it is believed that others are involved in this, namely the son (Lorenzo Van Rijn) of a VW auto dealer that hung himself a couple yrs ago. Apparently the son is heavily into the drug trade and other things as well and is quite wealthy but kinda off his rocker, he's feared by many on the island due to the fact that so many find him so sinister. His home is one of the only homes on the island which has a basement and the rumors are flying that he connects to Natalee's disappearance.


clevfan
captain
Posts: 8256
Joined: Jul 2002
07/03/2005 0:30 AM    
User is offline View users profile

these are suspect sites:

www.mrpinkproductions.com

www.guide2paradise.com


both are run by a guy orginally from michigan by the name of paul brough. he is good friends with lorenzo van rijn

old sites are: www.getlegalhookers.com and www.metronightlife.com



arubagirl wrote:
I know that right now I'm being an information tease, but it's just ridiculous that I'm afraid that I'm going to be howled out of the message board.
Deep sigh Here goes:
According to neighbours of van Rijn's mom, this lady had an affair with v/d Sloot before he was married to his current wife, and the result was Lorenzo van Rijn. Natalee was held at Lorenzo's house (who lives alone), since he has a basement (not many houses here have a basement). Natalee has been moved from house to house belonging to those that are in the plan (don't know what plan that is). They are afraid to kill her what with everybody focusing on the case.
Look, I KNOW. I KNOW. It's sounds to utterly fantastic and ridiculous. Please don't kill me, troll me, flame me. Not for this. I WANT it to be true, that she is still alive.
An Aruban blogger from another site wrote that some of Natalee's belongings were found at Van Rijn's house...
I've also seen it posted by Claire on 6/19 3:28pm on RWV



omega
Scared Monkey
Joined: 31 Jul 2005

PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 9:02 pm    Post subject:    Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote
Riehl World View: Fourth Man
Lorenzo is the son of the deceased VW car dealer, seems to be very much related to ... Financial Bank on Aruba is represented by the law-firm Croes & Wever...
http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2005/06/fourth_man.html - 92k -


IamTito wrote:
Lorenzo Wever  was sent to Holland soon after the event.. he was a casino person.. his father currently leads a political party on the island..


erin_go_bragh:
Tito, are you aware of any Lorenzo’s involving the case? There is an alleged Lorenzo from Holland (now lives in Aruba) that might have eaten dinner with Natalee during her trip to Aruba. Allegedly, he's around 27 and might have something to do with drugs...

TITO: HE LEFT FOR HOLLAND.. IF HIS NAME IS WEVER, THAT IS..

As far as Lorenzo... dont have a picture

as far as the misleading theory.. hmmmm
IamTito




IamTito
Joined: 10 Aug 2005
Location: aruba
   
PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 9:17 pm    Post subject:    Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote
Lorenzo Wever was sent to Holland soon after the event.. he was a casino person.. his father currently leads a political party on the island..







It has been rumored that there is a cell phone record from 6:20AM the morning Natalee went missing from Steve Croes to Joran.


kermit NOTE: TITO SAID LORENZO WAS SENT to Holland
Kermit NOTE: that area Santa Lucia is where Steve Croes lives and ALSO DAIRO JARISON (not sure if that is the correct spelling and on on lazy sunday time.

Compananzi
Monkey Junkey
Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 1:04 am

Local Casino Dealer mysteriously skipped town to Holland...Interrogation also occurring in Holland in the Natalee case.

ORANJESTAD: Information has been circulating for a couple of days that a local Casino Dealer, male, who was working in the one of the Highrise Hotel Casino, right after the dissapearanc eof Natalee, skipped town and went to Holland.

After the Dealer went on his flight, rumors started that this young man also knows the 3 suspects, Joran van der Sloot and also know the bros. Deepak, and Satish Kalpoe.

This important detail, clearly has reached the ears of the local authorities, about the sudden trip of this Dealer, whose in Holland currently.


Sources indicate, and new information that Diario has made available points to the Dealer in question, whose trip went to Holland, was interrogated on more then 2 occasions by Aruban and Dutch authorities relating to the Natalee case.

It appears that the Dealer W confirms that he knows Joran, but we could not determine if during the interrogation if he brought forward that he knows the bros. Kapoes or not.

Up to now in this 2 months long Natalee case, information are still circulating that this Dealer in question might know something about this case

To prevent rumors, Diario has confirmation from the local authorities, whose during the interrogation also were mentioning the high tailing of this dealer., which they were able to get Dutch counterparts to interrogate this youth with Initials W, whilst he was in Holland. All details of this interrogation will be sent back to Aruba.
_________________
Various wever info:

Aliansa - (Aliansa Democratico Arubano)
Aruban Democratic Alliance

Party color: Purple Description and meaning of the Logo: - Ideology: Founded: May 19, 2001
Current data of the Party: Party leader - Wever; Robert F. Chairman - Wever; Ricardo R. Treasurer - Janga; Raymundo Secretary - Werleman; Eugenia I. Members of committee - - Angela; Karen - van de Linden; Olivia URL - http://www.aliansaaruba.org/ History & Other data: click here to see the statute. (Dutch) Further updates soon! Participation in Elections: Date of Election: September 23, 2005 Party leader - Wever; Robert Frederick
Date of Election: September 28, 2001 Party leader conducting campaign - Wever; Robert Frederick
Acquired seats in the Staten of Aruba - 0 Cabinet - Oduber III Period - 2001 - present
http://www.aliansaaruba.org/


6/16/05-----Lorenzo Van Rijn was brought in by Aruban police for questioning but was not held. According to Tito, he was considered a possible suspect at that time.
6/16/05-----Max Arendsz was brought in by Aruban police for questioning. It has been stated that he was the “alibi” for LVR.


Jun 29, 2005 1:09 PM

My little spunky monkey... yes, I concur, I too, had the bestest time with you at Warped! From jammin' out together with Brittnie, Dutch & Lorenzo, to seein' Sammy Haggar/Puck at Bennegins, to posin' like a Victoria's Secret model for you & Dutch, to my Touretts gettin' the best of me... all in a Tuesday's fun! Love ya girl! Talk to you later on!
http://www.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewProfile&friendID=7892828&Mytoken=20050203010636



*******, I personally know Lorenzo very well and since he (to my knowledge) isn't guilty or plays a part in the NH case I'd rather refrain from giving out personal info.

What is known (was in the papers), the police (way in the beginning) got an anonimous tip by phone, and went (without a searchwarrant and were allowed)to search his house and question him. Nothing was found, he also had an alibi and that settled it.
Him being PdvS son is a rumour that started during the NH case. I think because Lorenzo's dad's name was Paul too, they are both Dutch etc. that rumour started. But there is no truth to it.

More I can't tell you about him. Lorenzo is a guy who luckily does not hang out on the Internet (so he will not read some of the ludicrous things posted about him) and has no pictures online. Non of the pictures you've seen online claiming to be him, is him.

Posted by: Dolores | Aug 31, 2005 9:33:45 AM
http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2005/08/natalee_hollowa_75.html



Thanks for posting all of this Kermit! I think I get it now. Let me know your thoughts on this 'theory' based on codetalker info- and also does anybody know where we can get the full video of Natalee sitting at the table inside the ca$ino? Posnr was ticked off that it was played on MSM... maybe there's a pic of DirtyHand walking in/out.

Perhaps the person/perp (DirtyHand) we are looking for was at the H.I. ca$ino tables during the week and/or that night, and sat specifically at "Wever's" table (Guido or Lorenzo or both). Guido was said to be a croupier so the table is either craps or roulette. Maybe Natalee and/or one of her friends (that look like her) was at the same table before moving over to the blackjack table. And then Joran who is now sitting at the same blackjack table as Natalee and girls, were told about how they owed someone $. Maybe it wasn't "daddy's" money but the person/perp from whom she borrowed earlier in the week.  Maybe the MB girls, naive to gambling and consequences, didn't take the amount of $ owed to this person/perp very seriously, but this person/perp did. Joran was hired to get the $ back.

Remember - ALL THE GAMBLERS KNEW WHAT WAS WRITTEN DOWN.

"W", a ca$ino worker, was 'SENT' to Netherlands. Guido Wever or this Lorenzo David Wever. (Larry is a nickname for Lorenzo). Basically was 'sent' but literally 'flee' off Aruba. This is DirtyHand's power. THEY SAW, AND WERE SENT AWAY TO SHUT THEM UP.
 
5/16/06 the grey whisper said...
texan, the answer lies at the roulette table.

5/16/06 the grey whisper said...
who's really to say, texan.. like your old amusing friend Koko, they are all really just someone's wind-up toy, aren't they? whose purse was covering the spread at the tables that night? you never win when your opponent has three black aces up his sleeve (IN RESPONSE TO DAN IN TX: So Shango and Simian don't know what they're talking about?)
 
Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:36 pm
All that the gamblers knew was written down. They knew the girl. She spent her nights at their tables.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:33 pm
Why did the girl owe money?

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:04 pm
Are the children of the elders there, or did they flee to Babylon?
DirtyHand knows, this is his Power. there will be 46 sacrifices


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on August 10, 2008, 08:38:30 PM
Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 12:23 am
Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:03 pm
The alibi needs to be broken.The dogs have pouches on their feet. They are checking the dirty waters in Noord.
The Babylonians know what the girl did earlier in the week. Therein lies the motive.The third act will played soon, but the boy is not Ajax. He is too afraid to pull off such a feat.
 

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:04 pm
Are the children of the elders there, or did they flee to Babylon?
DirtyHand knows, this is his Power (break alibi)
there will be 46 sacrifices

Follow the notes
to the poison house
where the children of the babylonians
and the arawak nation
meet
, under cover of delusion.
In the maze
the lions which play
shall be found.
The gamblers also took note.
Tell the cowboys!




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 10, 2008, 09:35:43 PM
Lala's

I have no issues with whatever your thoughts are regarding Lorenzo.  I have mine and others disagree.  No problem.

My interest in now on Shango.  Shango stopped posting on June 30th, as best I can tell.  Simian chose to take on other nicknames and continue his posting.  Do you know of any other nicknames Shango may have used after June 30th?  If so, do you know if the posts were saved anywhere?

grey whisper loved casino stories too.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 10, 2008, 10:28:40 PM
Lala's

I have no issues with whatever your thoughts are regarding Lorenzo.  I have mine and others disagree.  No problem.

My interest in now on Shango.  Shango stopped posting on June 30th, as best I can tell.  Simian chose to take on other nicknames and continue his posting.  Do you know of any other nicknames Shango may have used after June 30th?  If so, do you know if the posts were saved anywhere?

grey whisper loved casino stories too.

Confirmed???  Or a quess?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: finngirl on August 11, 2008, 12:09:01 AM

kermit: very nice LvR compilation, thank you

Since some have implied that I have changed my story about Lorenzo...please note that what I have said about Lorenzo being the drug dealer is the same as I said when this post was made.  This is something I have said all along.  Lorenzo was a curious character that is my favorite subject but brings out the wolves on any given day to defend him when he is accused of being the drug supplier and famous party guy. I have yet to understand that.  Also it would be wise to keep in mind that I was told several things at that book signing that I was asked to keep to myself.  One of which was about Natalee and my own daughter.  So for everyone that has told everyone else I have changed my story...thanks TM for posting that. I appreciate it. So, if everyone reads more into what I said and thinks whatever that is fine with me. Our one and only Bondia avoided the subject as well.  She did however jump at the chance to get a photo of Vadir van Loon...that is same person that Beth talks about in her book.  The one Jacobs didn't seem to want anything to do with. Everyone that could be named was dragged through the dirt in Aruba except Lorenzo. Yet, he was arrested for growing marijuana on his property and walks away free and clear.  What kind of leverage is that?  Was Lorenzo working undercover for someone?   Was that why Babalu said "he could not be touched"?  I will maintain from things I have been told by those close to this case that Lorenzo was the "pimps" big time dealer. 

boy, do I remember that night!

bondia/Julia "volunteered" to look for the painted rocks ...
not surprisingly, came back w/:
I couldn't find the rocks but I did see this person
(posted photo of Vadir) ...
fronted off like she didn't know who he was

said he took her photo while she was taking his  :roll:

didn't some research along the way indicate that
Julia/Vadir were friends and/or business associates ...
something to do w/ water sports rentals?

also this, to GinoX from a poster
at the aruba speed shop forum/early june 2005
and translated from papi

aruba speed shop owner/Maxito Arendsz
speed shop forum webmaster/Andry Lopez aka Peeps
(who brought us LvR-in-crazy-painted-van photo)

What puzzled me was when I read a couple of days ago that they searched Joran's at his house.

But this house looks a lot like Lorenzo's house in Jaraweg/Sav.


Finngirl…

There is another post either on the FP or at RWV that says this same thing?  It is referring to the arrest/non arrest of June 11th. The poster said that it was the same house as one of the other suspects was arrested at.

I am reading 6/11 FP now and if I don’t see it there I will check at RWV. Remember the rumors that Joran was staying at Lorenzo’s?…picked up for school on the way to his house?

very interesting ...
cuz the speed shop forum was under the radar
(as far as american posters being aware of it)
early in june when that JvdS/LvR post was made




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on August 11, 2008, 11:19:34 AM

kermit: very nice LvR compilation, thank you

Since some have implied that I have changed my story about Lorenzo...please note that what I have said about Lorenzo being the drug dealer is the same as I said when this post was made.  This is something I have said all along.  Lorenzo was a curious character that is my favorite subject but brings out the wolves on any given day to defend him when he is accused of being the drug supplier and famous party guy. I have yet to understand that.  Also it would be wise to keep in mind that I was told several things at that book signing that I was asked to keep to myself.  One of which was about Natalee and my own daughter.  So for everyone that has told everyone else I have changed my story...thanks TM for posting that. I appreciate it. So, if everyone reads more into what I said and thinks whatever that is fine with me. Our one and only Bondia avoided the subject as well.  She did however jump at the chance to get a photo of Vadir van Loon...that is same person that Beth talks about in her book.  The one Jacobs didn't seem to want anything to do with. Everyone that could be named was dragged through the dirt in Aruba except Lorenzo. Yet, he was arrested for growing marijuana on his property and walks away free and clear.  What kind of leverage is that?  Was Lorenzo working undercover for someone?   Was that why Babalu said "he could not be touched"?  I will maintain from things I have been told by those close to this case that Lorenzo was the "pimps" big time dealer. 

boy, do I remember that night!

bondia/Julia "volunteered" to look for the painted rocks ...
not surprisingly, came back w/:
I couldn't find the rocks but I did see this person
(posted photo of Vadir) ...
fronted off like she didn't know who he was

said he took her photo while she was taking his  :roll:

didn't some research along the way indicate that
Julia/Vadir were friends and/or business associates ...
something to do w/ water sports rentals?

also this, to GinoX from a poster
at the aruba speed shop forum/early june 2005
and translated from papi

aruba speed shop owner/Maxito Arendsz
speed shop forum webmaster/Andry Lopez aka Peeps
(who brought us LvR-in-crazy-painted-van photo)

What puzzled me was when I read a couple of days ago that they searched Joran's at his house.

But this house looks a lot like Lorenzo's house in Jaraweg/Sav.


Finngirl…

There is another post either on the FP or at RWV that says this same thing?  It is referring to the arrest/non arrest of June 11th. The poster said that it was the same house as one of the other suspects was arrested at.

I am reading 6/11 FP now and if I don’t see it there I will check at RWV. Remember the rumors that Joran was staying at Lorenzo’s?…picked up for school on the way to his house?

very interesting ...
cuz the speed shop forum was under the radar
(as far as american posters being aware of it)
early in june when that JvdS/LvR post was made




Finn...trying to read a FP post/comments every couple of days...if it is not on SM, I will try and find it at RWV.  I have an idea that may have been where I read it. Thanks for the info on the speed shop forum...

I have some thoughts on the "News" coming out of Aruba. Jairo told posters to watch MSNBC...said they were partners with ATV...who were good as investigative reporters. Geraldo left around 6/14 or 6/15...porn movie announcement was aired 6/14...not discussed again until August. Will have to check on the exact date, but CNN stopped covering Natalee's story around 6/25, when Bob Costas refused to do a show on it. Nancy still followed it. CNN was hanging onto the "Something Bad Happened' story on 6/11. Aruba has CNN and only has Fox if you have a dish. So most in Aruba saw CNN...I think CNN and Fox had better sources. Not like MSNBC who were given there stories by ATV. I don't mean sources like Julia, Tito and Jossy...I mean real information sources. The confidential type. No matter how big the cover-up there will always be leaks.  It was even commented on the FP that there were no leaks early on! That by one of the Aruban posters. Heck, you hear stuff in the hotel lobby!

Is this why so many Aruban posters were slamming CNN and Fox...to counter the "bits" of real info they found? The confession, Something Bad happened, the porn movie, the alibi -Max Arends.

IIRC the Strategic Group was formed early. Was this before CNN left...Why did CNN leave...maybe they would have lost their contract if they stayed.

The only thing I recall with MSNBC was the prison video of Joran which they were not allowed to show. Just started thinking about this since I started on the FP and need to check some dates...if the info is still out there...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 11, 2008, 11:40:08 AM
Lala's

I have no issues with whatever your thoughts are regarding Lorenzo.  I have mine and others disagree.  No problem.

My interest in now on Shango.  Shango stopped posting on June 30th, as best I can tell.  Simian chose to take on other nicknames and continue his posting.  Do you know of any other nicknames Shango may have used after June 30th?  If so, do you know if the posts were saved anywhere?

grey whisper loved casino stories too.

Confirmed???  Or a quess?

Very little in the Shango thread is confirmed.  That is why it's a speculation thread. LOL  I should have placed a question mark at the end of my post. LOL


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 11, 2008, 01:21:18 PM
Lala's

I have no issues with whatever your thoughts are regarding Lorenzo.  I have mine and others disagree.  No problem.

My interest in now on Shango.  Shango stopped posting on June 30th, as best I can tell.  Simian chose to take on other nicknames and continue his posting.  Do you know of any other nicknames Shango may have used after June 30th?  If so, do you know if the posts were saved anywhere?

grey whisper loved casino stories too.

Confirmed???  Or a quess?

Very little in the Shango thread is confirmed.  That is why it's a speculation thread. LOL  I should have placed a question mark at the end of my post. LOL

The reason I asked that is beacuse we were able to match Simian/Merian/Baboon, etc together.  I did not know if someone had been able to do that with Shango and the Grey Whisperer.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 11, 2008, 03:24:21 PM
Grey Whisper could have been anyone.  I don't think he was Simian/Merian. There are other cryptic posters such as Checkme, Shock, and various others from Aruba that could have been Grey Whisper.  I think his first post was a reference to gambling, wasn't it? Now, why is he talking  about FREDDY too? HMMMMMM.  Even Grey Whisper is agreeing with comments about the present government in his posts.  He seemed to be repeating things already known.  I am guessing again...nothing but speculation on my part.

the grey whisper said...
is freddy's purse tied to the black numbers/////

texan, the answer is in the numbers 01 06 05

who are the other guests at that charade?


the grey whisper said...
simian and koko are just as their handles imply- low level primates making noise to distract... the real players at this masquerade ball are smarter, but less deft of foot than they may believe.

Are the sentries really asleep at the watchtower? The figure at this ball may turn lead to gold, but he's no prince charming.


the grey whisper said...
He thrusts his fists into the posts but still insists he sees the ghosts.

Crickets always chirp eventually, don't they?


the grey whisper said...
the talisman in his hand is running out of charms. the broomsticks are enchanted, but their master may regret the dance now that it has been set in motion

the grey whisper said...
just came back from an out of country location where i could not use the internet without unwanted results. tell me, is the cricket ready to chirp?

the grey whisper said...
Touche, my old friend. I believe that you are an old spirit 'Lion Hunter' and as such understand well what it takes to fell one...

Others are not so in-tune, they've never realized that their 'answer lies on the whispering wind'. The question, for the love of God is will they ever listen to the truths before them?

the grey whisper said...
the calm sometimes belies the storm on the horizon. The watchmen keep their vigil.

the grey whisper said...
All may not be as quiet as it seems. The house band plays a merry tango, but who has space on their dance card?



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 11, 2008, 03:27:13 PM

kermit: very nice LvR compilation, thank you

Since some have implied that I have changed my story about Lorenzo...please note that what I have said about Lorenzo being the drug dealer is the same as I said when this post was made.  This is something I have said all along.  Lorenzo was a curious character that is my favorite subject but brings out the wolves on any given day to defend him when he is accused of being the drug supplier and famous party guy. I have yet to understand that.  Also it would be wise to keep in mind that I was told several things at that book signing that I was asked to keep to myself.  One of which was about Natalee and my own daughter.  So for everyone that has told everyone else I have changed my story...thanks TM for posting that. I appreciate it. So, if everyone reads more into what I said and thinks whatever that is fine with me. Our one and only Bondia avoided the subject as well.  She did however jump at the chance to get a photo of Vadir van Loon...that is same person that Beth talks about in her book.  The one Jacobs didn't seem to want anything to do with. Everyone that could be named was dragged through the dirt in Aruba except Lorenzo. Yet, he was arrested for growing marijuana on his property and walks away free and clear.  What kind of leverage is that?  Was Lorenzo working undercover for someone?   Was that why Babalu said "he could not be touched"?  I will maintain from things I have been told by those close to this case that Lorenzo was the "pimps" big time dealer. 

boy, do I remember that night!

bondia/Julia "volunteered" to look for the painted rocks ...
not surprisingly, came back w/:
I couldn't find the rocks but I did see this person
(posted photo of Vadir) ...
fronted off like she didn't know who he was

said he took her photo while she was taking his  :roll:

didn't some research along the way indicate that
Julia/Vadir were friends and/or business associates ...
something to do w/ water sports rentals?

also this, to GinoX from a poster
at the aruba speed shop forum/early june 2005
and translated from papi

aruba speed shop owner/Maxito Arendsz
speed shop forum webmaster/Andry Lopez aka Peeps
(who brought us LvR-in-crazy-painted-van photo)

What puzzled me was when I read a couple of days ago that they searched Joran's at his house.

But this house looks a lot like Lorenzo's house in Jaraweg/Sav.


Finngirl…

There is another post either on the FP or at RWV that says this same thing?  It is referring to the arrest/non arrest of June 11th. The poster said that it was the same house as one of the other suspects was arrested at.

I am reading 6/11 FP now and if I don’t see it there I will check at RWV. Remember the rumors that Joran was staying at Lorenzo’s?…picked up for school on the way to his house?

very interesting ...
cuz the speed shop forum was under the radar
(as far as american posters being aware of it)
early in june when that JvdS/LvR post was made




Yes, Finn.  You are right. Julia only talked about those that were easily vindicated as innocent should they have been accused.  She knew how to play it for sure. I hated those nights with her in the cage.  I became a barfdoll because of her and SandraK.  LOL 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Pita on August 11, 2008, 03:58:26 PM
Finn...trying to read a FP post/comments every couple of days...if it is not on SM, I will try and find it at RWV.  I have an idea that may have been where I read it. Thanks for the info on the speed shop forum...

I have some thoughts on the "News" coming out of Aruba. Jairo told posters to watch MSNBC...said they were partners with ATV...who were good as investigative reporters. Geraldo left around 6/14 or 6/15...porn movie announcement was aired 6/14...not discussed again until August. Will have to check on the exact date, but CNN stopped covering Natalee's story around 6/25, when Bob Costas refused to do a show on it. Nancy still followed it. CNN was hanging onto the "Something Bad Happened' story on 6/11. Aruba has CNN and only has Fox if you have a dish. So most in Aruba saw CNN...I think CNN and Fox had better sources. Not like MSNBC who were given there stories by ATV. I don't mean sources like Julia, Tito and Jossy...I mean real information sources. The confidential type. No matter how big the cover-up there will always be leaks.  It was even commented on the FP that there were no leaks early on! That by one of the Aruban posters. Heck, you hear stuff in the hotel lobby!

Is this why so many Aruban posters were slamming CNN and Fox...to counter the "bits" of real info they found? The confession, Something Bad happened, the porn movie, the alibi -Max Arends.

IIRC the Strategic Group was formed early. Was this before CNN left...Why did CNN leave...maybe they would have lost their contract if they stayed.

The only thing I recall with MSNBC was the prison video of Joran which they were not allowed to show. Just started thinking about this since I started on the FP and need to check some dates...if the info is still out there...

Mum, I had this part of an article from T4N saved regarding the Strategic Message Design Group.

In June of 2005, Robert DiLella and Stephen Cohen (SMDG) met with the Aruba Tourism Hotel Authority (ATHA) and the Aruban Tourism Authority (ATA) in order to create the Strategic Communications Task Force (SCTF). SCTF’s mission was to control the media coverage of the Natalee Holloway case. Members of the Steering Committee for this Task Force included many of the Island’s most influential people who were all heavily invested in Government or tourism. This fact goes a long way toward tying up loose ends in relevance to the dissemination of information in Natalee’s case and the attack on the media.

DiLella and Cohen went to work immediately taking action in their efforts to restrain the media wildfire that had besieged Aruba. First, they decided to drastically increase the fee charged to news organizations for using Aruba’s satellite uplink facilities. Secondly, a decision was made and acted upon to place stringent restrictions on the flow of media equipment coming into the island airport. The idea was to control all the electronic equipment belonging to foreign media representatives and journalists. In controlling the flow of electronic equipment, the operators would have less to work with, making it harder and in some cases impossible to report Natalee’s story. The plot to stop access to media equipment caused havoc and delay and resulted in success for SMDG. There was a noticeable decrease in journalists and media passing through the airport gates. After all, how could you report a story without your equipment? Journalists and media representatives were watched by ALE and others.  In hindsight, it is clear this plan was implemented to minimize the journalistic and media coverage of Natalee’s case. Crisis management was in full force and control on the Island of Aruba. The Natalee Holloway raging wildfire was soon to be reduced to a smolder.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 11, 2008, 06:10:03 PM
I wonder how much money they made in Aruba from the media wildfire?  I bet they would love to have that kind of money coming in right about now.  Be careful what you wish for!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Kermit on August 11, 2008, 06:36:25 PM
Thanks Kermit...According to Joran's book he was transferred from Noord to KIA on 6/20. Was Jacobs at Noord? Is this where most of the witnesses were questioned?

Dennis Jacobs had them at the Bulbai station. In fact, Dennis Jacobs was with Joran, got out of the car I believe when he was taken to do his DNA tests. Go through the videos again, don't blink, and you'll see Dennis Jacobs unmistakable figure several times. Paulus was taken to Noord I believe.




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on August 11, 2008, 06:47:38 PM
Lala's

I have no issues with whatever your thoughts are regarding Lorenzo.  I have mine and others disagree.  No problem.

My interest in now on Shango.  Shango stopped posting on June 30th, as best I can tell.  Simian chose to take on other nicknames and continue his posting.  Do you know of any other nicknames Shango may have used after June 30th?  If so, do you know if the posts were saved anywhere?

grey whisper loved casino stories too.

Confirmed???  Or a quess?

Very little in the Shango thread is confirmed.  That is why it's a speculation thread. LOL  I should have placed a question mark at the end of my post. LOL

The reason I asked that is beacuse we were able to match Simian/Merian/Baboon, etc together.  I did not know if someone had been able to do that with Shango and the Grey Whisperer.

Here's the complete dialogue of GreyWhisper on 'Dan in Tx" blogspot where Grey posted:

the grey whisper said...
we all know the export is not the drugs, texan. find the real export in the middle of the island and you will find the answers you seek
the grey whisper said...
texan, the answer lies at the roulette table.
3:45 PM

Dan in Tx said...
So Shango said, whisper.
"Ask the dicemen who roll" what happened to Mary. I shall have to look over all of Shango's posts again and see if my interpretation of him has changed since last June.
Shango also asked, "Do the Babylonians make movies?", which is interesting because I've heard several accusations that Freddy Arambatzis films these parties (one such accuser was Jossy Mansur), and that leads me to wonder why, in the leaked transcripts, why did K2 say that Freddy needed to come clean?
I wonder...who did Freddy work for? Wait a minute- doesn't Michael Posner have a rap sheet that includes prostitution charges in Chicago?
7:16 AM

the grey whisper said...
is freddy's purse tied to the black numbers/////
texan, the answer is in the numbers 01 06 05
who are the other guests at that charade?
3:20 PM

Dan in Tx said...
Whisper, your posts intrigue me quite a bit. My blog e-mail is xxxx@yahoo.com; by all means feel free to use it.
Remember, right now all we need is the name of who Natalee was with after Joran and the Kalpoes...we are certain they are not the end of the trail!
4:05 PM

Anonymous said...
Grey Whisper
Who was at the roulette table? and did Guido work that table?
6:33 PM

Anonymous said...
Grey Whisper:
Simian also spoke of the casino...care to interpret for me?
Girl comes to Aruba. Meets cool and crazy guy in C@$ino. Goes out with him. He declares that to be the case. Can’t deny it. It’s on tape. Everybody in the C@$ino knows the group of teens, they have been drinking in there for free the whole week.
After a couple of days girl meets another boy in the same C@$ino. Goes out with him. This makes first guy really mad. So mad he confronts second boy.
First guy never denies the affair. He knows they know he was with her. However, he has an airtight alibi. Some friends say they were at home with him. Until the morning.
6:36 PM

Anonymous said...
Grey Whisper:
Care to tell what happened on June 1, 2005 (01 06 05)?
Forgive me if I am wrong, but doesn't a croupier sweep the dice with the stick after they are rolled?
4:52 PM

the grey whisper said...
texan, never mind the monkeys- their dance is that of les innocents..
7:41 AM

Dan in Tx said...
So Shango and Simian don't know what they're talking about?
9:09 AM

the grey whisper said...
who's really to say, texan.. like your old amusing friend Koko, they are all really just someone's wind-up toy, aren't they?
whose purse was covering the spread at the tables that night? you never win when your opponent has three black aces up his sleeve
1:21 PM

Anonymous said...
are you merien or simian? http://fan.ashke.nu/innocents/ http://www.moviesunlimited.com/musite/product.asp?sku=D39571++
2:46 PM

Anonymous said...
grey whisper, would the real export be porn videos?
7:17 PM

Anonymous said...
Grey Whisper:
You said:
whose purse was covering the spread at the tables that night? you never win when your opponent has three black aces up his sleeve
There are only two black aces in a deck, could these be "black" people you speak of? First Roulette, then the croupier from craps and now cards....
you said it was freddy's purse....
7:27 PM

Dan in Tx said...
So Whisper is a Koko fan eh? Or does Koko have a doppelganger like Simian did? Koko isn't welcome here so let's hope not.
The real export is porn...or girls...or both.
So Whisper...DO the Babylonians make movies? Read Dave's book- he saw one of the places Freddy works.
6:21 AM

Anonymous said...
grey whisper, were the boys back in the casino on June 1? Did Freddy have alot of money to spend? Was he paid for a job he did? Filming perhaps? Was the roulette manager crooked and cheating? June 1st they boys were questioned by the police is this where the charade begins with the ALE?
8:28 AM

the grey whisper said...
simian and koko are just as their handles imply- low level primates making noise to distract... the real players at this masquerade ball are smarter, but less deft of foot than they may believe.
Are the sentries really asleep at the watchtower? The figure at this ball may turn lead to gold, but he's no prince charming.
3:40 PM

the croupier said...
I have a feeling that the whisper is about to start hollering and think that would be his own fool's errand.
4:49 PM

Anonymous said...
come on whisper holler if you want too. lead to gold eh? i believe i know who you are talking about.
3:48 PM

Anonymous said...
What is it croupier that you don't wish grey whisper to reveal? Are you afraid that he would expose the fetid underbelly of the island before it sinks?
4:11 PM

Anonymous said...
loaded dice(lead) means money(gold)sentries at the watchtower are the keepers of the casino video system? guido=prince charming
does gvcs dad over see those cameras?
did the little pimps have a thing going to win at the casino? freddys purse was covered by cheating.. guido covered it. was this it or was this a cover to make drug money earnings look like money won at the casino? croupier looks upset.
6:49 PM

Anonymous said...
is the real export laundered money?
6:50 PM

Anonymous said...
is croupier threatening to make grey whisper holler? holler hmmm sounds like a more southern term than one would use in aruba.
6:52 PM

Anonymous said...
is it possible nats cousing george discovered they were cheating and threatened to tell? they said she owed them money to make up for money maybe they lost. so they took her for this reason?
7:32 PM

the grey whisper said...
He thrusts his fists into the posts but still insists he sees the ghosts.
Crickets always chirp eventually, don't they?
8:33 AM

chauncy redding said...
grey whisper, ignore the croupier. once you come out with your words of wisdom i think he'll be the silent one!
12:37 PM

Anonymous said...
Are there crickets in Aruba? Or do they play cricket there, maybe??? Is there grass near Joran's house or is it on a beach?
Did Joran play cricket? If so, who are his team mates?
3:18 PM

Dan in Tx said...
I think crickets chirping means somebody will have to talk eventually. Care to shed some light on this, Whisper?
8:25 AM

REWEIGHS said...
FREDDY'S MONEY TURNED TO GOLD ON 060105. HE HAD ENOUGH MONEY TO COVER THE SPREAD ON THE ROULETTE TABLE KNOWING GUIDO'S "LEAD FOOT," WOULD ENSURE THE WINNINGS ON BLACK. THERE WAS TAPE BUT WHERE IS THE TAPE NOW?
2:31 PM

the grey whisper said...
the talisman in his hand is running out of charms. the broomsticks are enchanted, but their master may regret the dance now that it has been set in motion
3:15 PM

Anonymous said...
Satish is the one alleged to have seen ghosts...I thought Joran was the one who punched posts? Satish may have to talk soon....dutch forensics team has verified skeeter's tape of deepak's interview.
7:57 PM

Anonymous said...
Grey whisper, Is Satish the cricket who will chirp?

Another question whats up with David Wever 19, Is he the david that left the den alive? very interesting person and some interesting friends.
8:03 PM

Anonymous said...
who is the talisman, grey whisper? one of the suspects whos luck is running out? Joran, Freddy,Deepak, Satish? Are the broomsticks the supporters of corruption, the ALE? Jorans little pimp group? They set this little dance in motion and Papa aided. How can it be stopped?
8:41 PM

the grey whisper said...
just came back from an out of country location where i could not use the internet without unwanted results. tell me, is the cricket ready to chirp?
1:14 PM

Dan in Tx said...
No such luck, Whisper, but apparently Oduber is ready to thumb his nose on the Netherlands and become Hugo Chavez's new best friend.
That cricket won't chirp until someone catches him and pulls off his legs and makes him chirp. Not going to happen while lions control the government, Whisper. What I want to know is when will the Arawaks realize that even enough small spears will kill lions?
3:27 PM

the grey whisper said...
Touche, my old friend. I believe that you are an old spirit 'Lion Hunter' and as such understand well what it takes to fell one...
Others are not so in-tune, they've never realized that their 'answer lies on the whispering wind'. The question, for the love of God is will they ever listen to the truths before them?
1:45 AM

Anonymous said...
Crickets can't chirp if you pull their legs off, that is what produces the chirping sound, the male cricket rubbing his legs together. The real question is are they protecting an arawak or a dutchie?
5:46 AM

Dan in Tx said...
Whisper, the Arawak have THEIR wagons circled, and they just want the cowboys to forget about our lost, beloved Mary. They don't know that Mary is a household name among the cowboys- and I think the Babylonians want to keep THAT truth from them as well.
It is important that the Arubans realize that Oduber and the MEP are doing them no favors- but how do we tell them that the Americans are their allies and only want Natalee found- which will not happen until the government and ALE are purged of corruption by whatever means necessary? The Arubans will be much better off with Oduber and his lapdogs removed.
I think that is how you hunt lions- take away their protectors and let the lion-hunting cowboys take over.
3:23 PM

Anonymous said...
Here's a novel idea. Grey Whisper, why don't you just tell us in plain understable words what it is that we don't see, so we can put this to rest and Aruba can get on with its life, as can the rest of us?
You have to have patience to hunt lions, and mine disappeared at the year mark. There is something respectable about being forthright, don't you think?
3:52 PM

Anonymous said...
Koen is the cricket. He needs to stop crying in his parents' bed and to start chirping.
7:24 PM

Dan in Tx said...
Or maybe it is Joran or Freddy the child molester?
Whisper- is this cricket of a native species or imported from elsewhere?
8:07 AM

Dan in Tx said...
I'm going on vacation this week, Whisper. Don't get discouraged if I don't post your clues in that time.
4:33 PM

Anonymous said...
Aruba has a government? When did this happen? lol Blue
7:13 PM

[not sure if there is more dialogue - this info is from old notes]


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on August 11, 2008, 09:39:31 PM
Finn...trying to read a FP post/comments every couple of days...if it is not on SM, I will try and find it at RWV.  I have an idea that may have been where I read it. Thanks for the info on the speed shop forum...

I have some thoughts on the "News" coming out of Aruba. Jairo told posters to watch MSNBC...said they were partners with ATV...who were good as investigative reporters. Geraldo left around 6/14 or 6/15...porn movie announcement was aired 6/14...not discussed again until August. Will have to check on the exact date, but CNN stopped covering Natalee's story around 6/25, when Bob Costas refused to do a show on it. Nancy still followed it. CNN was hanging onto the "Something Bad Happened' story on 6/11. Aruba has CNN and only has Fox if you have a dish. So most in Aruba saw CNN...I think CNN and Fox had better sources. Not like MSNBC who were given there stories by ATV. I don't mean sources like Julia, Tito and Jossy...I mean real information sources. The confidential type. No matter how big the cover-up there will always be leaks.  It was even commented on the FP that there were no leaks early on! That by one of the Aruban posters. Heck, you hear stuff in the hotel lobby!

Is this why so many Aruban posters were slamming CNN and Fox...to counter the "bits" of real info they found? The confession, Something Bad happened, the porn movie, the alibi -Max Arends.

IIRC the Strategic Group was formed early. Was this before CNN left...Why did CNN leave...maybe they would have lost their contract if they stayed.

The only thing I recall with MSNBC was the prison video of Joran which they were not allowed to show. Just started thinking about this since I started on the FP and need to check some dates...if the info is still out there...

Mum, I had this part of an article from T4N saved regarding the Strategic Message Design Group.

In June of 2005, Robert DiLella and Stephen Cohen (SMDG) met with the Aruba Tourism Hotel Authority (ATHA) and the Aruban Tourism Authority (ATA) in order to create the Strategic Communications Task Force (SCTF). SCTF’s mission was to control the media coverage of the Natalee Holloway case. Members of the Steering Committee for this Task Force included many of the Island’s most influential people who were all heavily invested in Government or tourism. This fact goes a long way toward tying up loose ends in relevance to the dissemination of information in Natalee’s case and the attack on the media.

DiLella and Cohen went to work immediately taking action in their efforts to restrain the media wildfire that had besieged Aruba. First, they decided to drastically increase the fee charged to news organizations for using Aruba’s satellite uplink facilities. Secondly, a decision was made and acted upon to place stringent restrictions on the flow of media equipment coming into the island airport. The idea was to control all the electronic equipment belonging to foreign media representatives and journalists. In controlling the flow of electronic equipment, the operators would have less to work with, making it harder and in some cases impossible to report Natalee’s story. The plot to stop access to media equipment caused havoc and delay and resulted in success for SMDG. There was a noticeable decrease in journalists and media passing through the airport gates. After all, how could you report a story without your equipment? Journalists and media representatives were watched by ALE and others.  In hindsight, it is clear this plan was implemented to minimize the journalistic and media coverage of Natalee’s case. Crisis management was in full force and control on the Island of Aruba. The Natalee Holloway raging wildfire was soon to be reduced to a smolder.


Thanks Pita...Crisis Management???  They didn't want the truth to get out...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on August 11, 2008, 09:43:07 PM
Thanks Kermit...According to Joran's book he was transferred from Noord to KIA on 6/20. Was Jacobs at Noord? Is this where most of the witnesses were questioned?

Dennis Jacobs had them at the Bulbai station. In fact, Dennis Jacobs was with Joran, got out of the car I believe when he was taken to do his DNA tests. Go through the videos again, don't blink, and you'll see Dennis Jacobs unmistakable figure several times. Paulus was taken to Noord I believe.





Thanks Kermit...Jacobs again...Look hard at anyone and everyone he questioned....

 If Joran says up, it's down.... ::MonkeyNoNo::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Buckeye on August 12, 2008, 04:43:25 AM
Finn...trying to read a FP post/comments every couple of days...if it is not on SM, I will try and find it at RWV.  I have an idea that may have been where I read it. Thanks for the info on the speed shop forum...

I have some thoughts on the "News" coming out of Aruba. Jairo told posters to watch MSNBC...said they were partners with ATV...who were good as investigative reporters. Geraldo left around 6/14 or 6/15...porn movie announcement was aired 6/14...not discussed again until August. Will have to check on the exact date, but CNN stopped covering Natalee's story around 6/25, when Bob Costas refused to do a show on it. Nancy still followed it. CNN was hanging onto the "Something Bad Happened' story on 6/11. Aruba has CNN and only has Fox if you have a dish. So most in Aruba saw CNN...I think CNN and Fox had better sources. Not like MSNBC who were given there stories by ATV. I don't mean sources like Julia, Tito and Jossy...I mean real information sources. The confidential type. No matter how big the cover-up there will always be leaks.  It was even commented on the FP that there were no leaks early on! That by one of the Aruban posters. Heck, you hear stuff in the hotel lobby!

Is this why so many Aruban posters were slamming CNN and Fox...to counter the "bits" of real info they found? The confession, Something Bad happened, the porn movie, the alibi -Max Arends.

IIRC the Strategic Group was formed early. Was this before CNN left...Why did CNN leave...maybe they would have lost their contract if they stayed.

The only thing I recall with MSNBC was the prison video of Joran which they were not allowed to show. Just started thinking about this since I started on the FP and need to check some dates...if the info is still out there...

Mum, I had this part of an article from T4N saved regarding the Strategic Message Design Group.

In June of 2005, Robert DiLella and Stephen Cohen (SMDG) met with the Aruba Tourism Hotel Authority (ATHA) and the Aruban Tourism Authority (ATA) in order to create the Strategic Communications Task Force (SCTF). SCTF’s mission was to control the media coverage of the Natalee Holloway case. Members of the Steering Committee for this Task Force included many of the Island’s most influential people who were all heavily invested in Government or tourism. This fact goes a long way toward tying up loose ends in relevance to the dissemination of information in Natalee’s case and the attack on the media.

DiLella and Cohen went to work immediately taking action in their efforts to restrain the media wildfire that had besieged Aruba. First, they decided to drastically increase the fee charged to news organizations for using Aruba’s satellite uplink facilities. Secondly, a decision was made and acted upon to place stringent restrictions on the flow of media equipment coming into the island airport. The idea was to control all the electronic equipment belonging to foreign media representatives and journalists. In controlling the flow of electronic equipment, the operators would have less to work with, making it harder and in some cases impossible to report Natalee’s story. The plot to stop access to media equipment caused havoc and delay and resulted in success for SMDG. There was a noticeable decrease in journalists and media passing through the airport gates. After all, how could you report a story without your equipment? Journalists and media representatives were watched by ALE and others.  In hindsight, it is clear this plan was implemented to minimize the journalistic and media coverage of Natalee’s case. Crisis management was in full force and control on the Island of Aruba. The Natalee Holloway raging wildfire was soon to be reduced to a smolder.


Thanks Pita...Crisis Management???  They didn't want the truth to get out...

CNN ran the documentary about the choller houses and prostitution on June 10, 2005.  Previous to this, all the video of Aruba was beaches and sun.  IMO, this film was a turning point.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 12, 2008, 09:40:03 AM
Buckeye you are right!  It was all tumbling down at that point.  The media was beginning to shed the light on their little secret of drugs and addicts and prostitution. They didn't care if you knew about the gambling...that is why you were there...to gamble in the casinos. It was the seedy underbelly that when exposed told the true story of life on that rock.  It exposed the nature of the beast they had been trying to tame and when they increased all those fees the world knew there was something they didn't want told....too bad!  Now everyone knows.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on August 12, 2008, 09:54:19 AM
Hmmm!...What did Merian say about more people disappearing in this case?

Freddy...What did you do with your Mom...Where is Lilian Arambatzis-Rodriguez...on the Chamber list since 2004, now gone...

And this one is supposed to be in a US jail, but she can still run her business?

RODRIGUEZ TEJADA RAMONA DEL CARMEN

http://www.arubachamber.com/Voterslst/Website-KIEZERSLIJST%20KB%202008-2009.htm




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 12, 2008, 10:02:21 AM
A better question is why would you need to remove names at this point?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on August 12, 2008, 10:16:27 AM
A better question is why would you need to remove names at this point?


I have asked before how Lilian went from the Bubali S.C. to her School Foundation, at Montanja 62?? Would I love to see the records from before 2004/2005...and now we can't even see the new Chamber Board of directors...can't log in!!! A hidden Chamber of Commerce Board... ::MonkeyNoNo::

Things are not always as they appear...JMO


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on August 12, 2008, 10:47:26 AM
Finn...trying to read a FP post/comments every couple of days...if it is not on SM, I will try and find it at RWV.  I have an idea that may have been where I read it. Thanks for the info on the speed shop forum...

I have some thoughts on the "News" coming out of Aruba. Jairo told posters to watch MSNBC...said they were partners with ATV...who were good as investigative reporters. Geraldo left around 6/14 or 6/15...porn movie announcement was aired 6/14...not discussed again until August. Will have to check on the exact date, but CNN stopped covering Natalee's story around 6/25, when Bob Costas refused to do a show on it. Nancy still followed it. CNN was hanging onto the "Something Bad Happened' story on 6/11. Aruba has CNN and only has Fox if you have a dish. So most in Aruba saw CNN...I think CNN and Fox had better sources. Not like MSNBC who were given there stories by ATV. I don't mean sources like Julia, Tito and Jossy...I mean real information sources. The confidential type. No matter how big the cover-up there will always be leaks.  It was even commented on the FP that there were no leaks early on! That by one of the Aruban posters. Heck, you hear stuff in the hotel lobby!

Is this why so many Aruban posters were slamming CNN and Fox...to counter the "bits" of real info they found? The confession, Something Bad happened, the porn movie, the alibi -Max Arends.

IIRC the Strategic Group was formed early. Was this before CNN left...Why did CNN leave...maybe they would have lost their contract if they stayed.

The only thing I recall with MSNBC was the prison video of Joran which they were not allowed to show. Just started thinking about this since I started on the FP and need to check some dates...if the info is still out there...

Mum, I had this part of an article from T4N saved regarding the Strategic Message Design Group.

In June of 2005, Robert DiLella and Stephen Cohen (SMDG) met with the Aruba Tourism Hotel Authority (ATHA) and the Aruban Tourism Authority (ATA) in order to create the Strategic Communications Task Force (SCTF). SCTF’s mission was to control the media coverage of the Natalee Holloway case. Members of the Steering Committee for this Task Force included many of the Island’s most influential people who were all heavily invested in Government or tourism. This fact goes a long way toward tying up loose ends in relevance to the dissemination of information in Natalee’s case and the attack on the media.

DiLella and Cohen went to work immediately taking action in their efforts to restrain the media wildfire that had besieged Aruba. First, they decided to drastically increase the fee charged to news organizations for using Aruba’s satellite uplink facilities. Secondly, a decision was made and acted upon to place stringent restrictions on the flow of media equipment coming into the island airport. The idea was to control all the electronic equipment belonging to foreign media representatives and journalists. In controlling the flow of electronic equipment, the operators would have less to work with, making it harder and in some cases impossible to report Natalee’s story. The plot to stop access to media equipment caused havoc and delay and resulted in success for SMDG. There was a noticeable decrease in journalists and media passing through the airport gates. After all, how could you report a story without your equipment? Journalists and media representatives were watched by ALE and others.  In hindsight, it is clear this plan was implemented to minimize the journalistic and media coverage of Natalee’s case. Crisis management was in full force and control on the Island of Aruba. The Natalee Holloway raging wildfire was soon to be reduced to a smolder.


Thanks Pita...Crisis Management???  They didn't want the truth to get out...

CNN ran the documentary about the choller houses and prostitution on June 10, 2005.  Previous to this, all the video of Aruba was beaches and sun.  IMO, this film was a turning point.


From Sunfreak’s Aruban Who’s Who…Thanks Sunfreak…

DI LELLA, Robert – Owner of the Stategic Message Design Group out of California, USA, on scene as early as June 11, 2005 as PR advisor to the PM Nelson Oduber and the ATA, AHATA & Strategic Task Force  to rebuttal any negative aspersions cast upon Aruba by the Natalee Holloway disappearance.  Sister company is Cohen (Steve Cohen) DiLella Broadcast Group. DiLella was strategic in getting the MEP party and Oduber into power in the 1980’s

The posts I posted in Finngirl's "We Forgot we Knew" thread from June 11th now make a lot more sense...

June 10th. - 10.30PM...family was seen distraught at the hotel

June 11th. -reported confession, changed to something "bad happened", suspect leading them to a body, confession statements retracted.

CNN and Fox got this right! Oduber was bypassed, as were the local radio station which shut down that night.

Here is the link to the FP posts I posted yesterday...Post 43

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2768.40


Now what the heck did those ******** do with her????

Boycott Aruba!...Where is Sharon?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 12, 2008, 12:41:46 PM
Joran cracked that night.  He confessed that Natalee had been buried somewhere.  You can't lead someone to a body if it is in the ocean and you have no boat.  The PTB stopped it all because van der Straaten told them about the details.  The details of "see the chit".  The world was watching. Aruba did not have any control over the media.  June 11 is the date of the beginning of the cover up.  The all-out, full-fledged cover up.  Paulus had called in his favors and they were huge.  The bifrons were busy moving a body. 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 12, 2008, 12:55:50 PM
Let me throw a kink in this discussion for a minute. LOL

Satish was heavily questioned on June 10 and 11 as well as Deepak.  Then Joran gave the last statement the night of June 11 around 8:30 PM.  The rumors were out there in the early hours on Aruba...our media just didn't get wind of it until that afternoon and evening.

Kipster on June 11th, 2005 12:08 am

Confirmed by a senior police official:

“One of three young suspects arrested Thursday in the investigation into the disappearance of an Alabama teenager has confessed to her murder, a senior police official said late Friday.”

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/06/10/missing.teen/index.html



Gabriel Leo on June 11th, 2005 2:16 am

News going around on the island

Local media has contacted “live” on the air authorities, Prime Minister and other involved sources if the story, which again International media has published without the Aruba Media, Public even knows. Everyone with common sens knows that the first to find out are the local media. This left everyone on the island in shocked and therefor the local media started looking for confirmation which every top officials strongly denies. The Prime minister and Minister of Justice WHO ARE ALWAYS the first to receive any news said on the air ” Live” on the local media that the stories are not true and he has no information of any new developments.
Everyone denies that she is dead and that they are looking for her at this moment is not true.
The Ascioated press has started to change their news from found dead, or that they are looking for her remains to “bad things happening” or “bad things happened.

It’s 2 ‘o clock in the morning now and there will be no official statement until tomorrow. This is what’s going on now. Every top oficials on the island denies the story that has been published bij CNN and the AP.


#  arubagirl on June 11th, 2005 2:19 am

I respectfully disagree with Gabriel, what I heard was that no one confirmed the story, or that no one was able to confirm the story. This is as far as police officials go.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: finngirl on August 12, 2008, 03:17:42 PM
“One of three young suspects arrested Thursday in the investigation into the disappearance of an Alabama teenager has confessed to her murder, a senior police official said late Friday.”

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/06/10/missing.teen/index.html


Gabriel Leo on June 11th, 2005 2:16 am
News going around on the island

Local media has contacted “live” on the air authorities, Prime Minister and other involved sources if the story, which again International media has published without the Aruba Media, Public even knows. Everyone with common sens knows that the first to find out are the local media. This left everyone on the island in shocked and therefor the local media started looking for confirmation which every top officials strongly denies. The Prime minister and Minister of Justice WHO ARE ALWAYS the first to receive any news said on the air ” Live” on the local media that the stories are not true and he has no information of any new developments.
Everyone denies that she is dead and that they are looking for her at this moment is not true.
The Ascioated press has started to change their news from found dead, or that they are looking for her remains to “bad things happening” or “bad things happened.

It’s 2 ‘o clock in the morning now and there will be no official statement until tomorrow. This is what’s going on now. Every top oficials on the island denies the story that has been published bij CNN and the AP.


arubagirl on June 11th, 2005 2:19 am
I respectfully disagree with Gabriel, what I heard was that no one confirmed the story, or that no one was able to confirm the story. This is as far as police officials go.


from the RU 6 Degrees of Separation Thread ...
where posters listed how they were related to NH case:

Tue Feb 21, 2006 4:16 pm
arubagirl wrote:

Oh wow, let me count the ways
1) I live in Aruba
2) I worked for the Excelsior Casino
3) All four cops that I know worked on the case
4) Mariaine Croes was a classmate of mine
5) My dad knows Paul
(Paul worked for the Department of Justice, my dad worked for the then Minister of Justice NOT RUDY) etc...

there was a follow-up post that I saved/can't find
where AG added:
I know Native(Lingo) and she knows everyone else



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 14, 2008, 11:58:42 AM
What if we have already met Shango and didn't know it?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on August 14, 2008, 12:26:11 PM
What if we have already met Shango and didn't know it?


It's possible... ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on August 14, 2008, 12:43:53 PM
What if we have already met Shango and didn't know it?


It's possible... ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyHaHa::

 ::MonkeyHaHa:: 

BTW, BOYCOTT ARUBA  sharon may be on her way to Jacksonville for that anniversary celebration & another bruce fix... ::MonkeyWink::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 14, 2008, 01:15:15 PM
What if we have already met Shango and didn't know it?

it would not surprise me one bit.  i cannot imagine that someone posted all of that and then never came back.  even if they don't post they have probably checked in to see who is talking about that posts.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on August 14, 2008, 01:25:34 PM
What if we have already met Shango and didn't know it?

it would not surprise me one bit.  i cannot imagine that someone posted all of that and then never came back.  even if they don't post they have probably checked in to see who is talking about that posts.


Yep Truthseeker...Simian as well...Egos.... ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 14, 2008, 05:55:36 PM
What if we have already met Shango and didn't know it?


It's possible... ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyHaHa::

 ::MonkeyHaHa:: 

BTW, BOYCOTT ARUBA  sharon may be on her way to Jacksonville for that anniversary celebration & another bruce fix... ::MonkeyWink::

Stinker!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on August 14, 2008, 07:31:59 PM
What if we have already met Shango and didn't know it?


It's possible... ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyHaHa::

 ::MonkeyHaHa:: 

BTW, BOYCOTT ARUBA  sharon may be on her way to Jacksonville for that anniversary celebration & another bruce fix... ::MonkeyWink::

Stinker!


 ::MonkeyHaHa::

Had some addresses for her to check in Ft. L....she should have reminded us!

COLOMBO…Here we go again…Was Paulus a Judge?

And if he wasn’t, who could the Fallen Judge have been…

Which Judge’s plane was delayed? TIA

From the SM Front Page….
http://scaredmonkeys.com/2005/06/10/natalee-holloway-information-vii/#comments

arubagirl on June 10th, 2005 11:14 pm

Jerry,
There is also no one to confirm that they’re lying. That’s the problem. A friend of mine went to the HI, and the camera was just over the reception desk, so who knows how much it would have captured even if Natalee came in or not.

Don’t get me wrong, I want this case solved so badly, mostly because I’m tired of hearing people pose themseves as experts on this island when they’ve not even been here. Furthermore, as I understand it, v/d Sloot’s father is NOT a judge, he is jurist / lawyer at the office of Dutch-Aruban liaisons (KABNAA). So, while, yes, he’s probably a big-shot, I’m not too sure that the police actually knew this as they questioned them, since the employees of this departments aren’t well known to the people. Second, I’m not too sure of what goes on in the States, but in criminal cases we are not too concerned “who the daddy be”. It just makes it a bigger deal.
As for the cover-up theory..*sigh*. At this point feelings are running so high that the Crown Prince could have been involved in this, and he would be arrested it, just to get this over with. I really really really doubt that there is a cover-up going on, what with the FBI and whole damn world on their butts.
I personally think that she overdosed in some way, the boys panicked and they dumped her body into the sea. It’s just too evil to think about it, though.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1387.540

USE ME: RUMORS OF BREAKING NEWS 3
 
« Reply #543 on: June 14, 2005, 07:21:57 PM » Arubagirl     
van der Straaten, according to his son (who I'm friends with), isn't too fond of KABNAA (=place where v/d Sloot works) nowadays.

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2005/06/11/natalee-holloway-information-viii/#comments

arubagirl on June 11th, 2005 8:37 am
Okay, I have 5 hours of sleep.

Just FYI. Latest info: There is NONE. NOTHING. Everybody on the radio is playing (normal) music, the local tv stations are playing their American affiliates (CNN and NBC), it’s all quiet.

You know what I’d really really really like to know from Jim? Why are you so ready to believe that there will be a cover-up? I don’t think that the sentence will match what they would have gotten in the States, true, but I can assure that it’s not as if they’re going to forget this whole thing happened and give the guys community service.

Also, about van der Sloot’s father. From what I understand, he is a jurist / lawyer at the Dutch - Aruban - Netherlands Antilles Liaisons office. (KABNAA). He tried to be a judge, but didn’t make the cut. Promise to update as soon as something happens.

NativeLingo on June 11th, 2005 11:31 am

Ronald, He is not a “Judge”….YET and I don’t think he will ever be appointed after this….Maximum sentence is 20 to life…Leila on June 11th, 2005 11:33 am Many high profile people have children gone wrong, wont affect appointment necessarily

Leila on June 11th, 2005 11:36 am
Father works for KABNAA, not working in courthouse as a judge

Leila on June 11th, 2005 11:40 am
Father is an attorney, studying for judge which takes 8 years, long road . Father seems to be a very nice guy, soft spoken, very friedly and liked by locals. Son is somethng els of course

NativeLingo on June 11th, 2005 11:42 am
Leila, I agree, but looking at the MAGNITUDE and far-reaching implications of this case, I think it will affect the father…..





Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 14, 2008, 08:27:16 PM
The judge that had his plane delayed was the one that was supposed to come over from Curacao and he had to wait until the next day...was it Smid?  I have forgotten now, but it was all over the news then.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 14, 2008, 08:28:25 PM
What if we have already met Shango and didn't know it?


It's possible... ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyHaHa::

 ::MonkeyHaHa:: 

BTW, BOYCOTT ARUBA  sharon may be on her way to Jacksonville for that anniversary celebration & another bruce fix... ::MonkeyWink::

Stinker!


 ::MonkeyHaHa::

Had some addresses for her to check in Ft. L....she should have reminded us!

COLOMBO…Here we go again…Was Paulus a Judge?

And if he wasn’t, who could the Fallen Judge have been…

Which Judge’s plane was delayed? TIA

From the SM Front Page….
http://scaredmonkeys.com/2005/06/10/natalee-holloway-information-vii/#comments

arubagirl on June 10th, 2005 11:14 pm

Jerry,
There is also no one to confirm that they’re lying. That’s the problem. A friend of mine went to the HI, and the camera was just over the reception desk, so who knows how much it would have captured even if Natalee came in or not.

Don’t get me wrong, I want this case solved so badly, mostly because I’m tired of hearing people pose themseves as experts on this island when they’ve not even been here. Furthermore, as I understand it, v/d Sloot’s father is NOT a judge, he is jurist / lawyer at the office of Dutch-Aruban liaisons (KABNAA). So, while, yes, he’s probably a big-shot, I’m not too sure that the police actually knew this as they questioned them, since the employees of this departments aren’t well known to the people. Second, I’m not too sure of what goes on in the States, but in criminal cases we are not too concerned “who the daddy be”. It just makes it a bigger deal.
As for the cover-up theory..*sigh*. At this point feelings are running so high that the Crown Prince could have been involved in this, and he would be arrested it, just to get this over with. I really really really doubt that there is a cover-up going on, what with the FBI and whole damn world on their butts.
I personally think that she overdosed in some way, the boys panicked and they dumped her body into the sea. It’s just too evil to think about it, though.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1387.540

USE ME: RUMORS OF BREAKING NEWS 3
 
« Reply #543 on: June 14, 2005, 07:21:57 PM » Arubagirl     
van der Straaten, according to his son (who I'm friends with), isn't too fond of KABNAA (=place where v/d Sloot works) nowadays.

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2005/06/11/natalee-holloway-information-viii/#comments

arubagirl on June 11th, 2005 8:37 am
Okay, I have 5 hours of sleep.

Just FYI. Latest info: There is NONE. NOTHING. Everybody on the radio is playing (normal) music, the local tv stations are playing their American affiliates (CNN and NBC), it’s all quiet.

You know what I’d really really really like to know from Jim? Why are you so ready to believe that there will be a cover-up? I don’t think that the sentence will match what they would have gotten in the States, true, but I can assure that it’s not as if they’re going to forget this whole thing happened and give the guys community service.

Also, about van der Sloot’s father. From what I understand, he is a jurist / lawyer at the Dutch - Aruban - Netherlands Antilles Liaisons office. (KABNAA). He tried to be a judge, but didn’t make the cut. Promise to update as soon as something happens.

NativeLingo on June 11th, 2005 11:31 am

Ronald, He is not a “Judge”….YET and I don’t think he will ever be appointed after this….Maximum sentence is 20 to life…Leila on June 11th, 2005 11:33 am Many high profile people have children gone wrong, wont affect appointment necessarily

Leila on June 11th, 2005 11:36 am
Father works for KABNAA, not working in courthouse as a judge

Leila on June 11th, 2005 11:40 am
Father is an attorney, studying for judge which takes 8 years, long road . Father seems to be a very nice guy, soft spoken, very friedly and liked by locals. Son is somethng els of course

NativeLingo on June 11th, 2005 11:42 am
Leila, I agree, but looking at the MAGNITUDE and far-reaching implications of this case, I think it will affect the father…..





I read several Leila posts as you suggested...yep they do look familiar. LOL


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on August 14, 2008, 10:38:32 PM
Lala’s…Leila and AG…AUA - Another Useless Acronym ::MonkeyHaHa::

Clues on Nativelingo…   

NativeLingo on June 11th, 2005 4:54 pm
Natalee’s mother just spotted walking in the renaissance mall. Kid you NOT….

NativeLingo on June 11th, 2005 4:56 pm
She’s with a group of people, and looks rather “slow”….decoy?? I can’t imagine that..

NativeLingo on June 11th, 2005 4:58 pm
No Idea mwood, I own a store in the mall, and 3 other tenants have called me sofar with the same story…. WTH????

arubagirl on June 11th, 2005 5:00 pm
Oh, you do native? I was just there today.

NativeLingo on June 11th, 2005 5:02 pm
Been there for 7 years…….

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2005/06/11/natalee-holloway-comments-post-4/#comments

NativeLingo on June 11th, 2005 9:31 pm
Arubagirl….have you ever been to maui?

NativeLingo on June 11th, 2005 9:49 pm
Arubagirl…..true….I had the same experiences here and in the US

NativeLingo on June 11th, 2005 10:27 pm
Arubagirl…astrid is just 14 years old….. a smart 14 yr old

NativeLingo on June 11th, 2005 10:35 pm
Biggy….r u from aua?

Biggy on June 11th, 2005 10:36 pm
Yes but living across the atlantic for 2 years now










Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on August 14, 2008, 11:05:17 PM
What if we have already met Shango and didn't know it?


It's possible... ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyHaHa::

 ::MonkeyHaHa:: 

BTW, BOYCOTT ARUBA  sharon may be on her way to Jacksonville for that anniversary celebration & another bruce fix... ::MonkeyWink::

Stinker!


 ::MonkeyHaHa::

Had some addresses for her to check in Ft. L....she should have reminded us!

COLOMBO…Here we go again…Was Paulus a Judge?

And if he wasn’t, who could the Fallen Judge have been…

Which Judge’s plane was delayed? TIA

From the SM Front Page….
http://scaredmonkeys.com/2005/06/10/natalee-holloway-information-vii/#comments

arubagirl on June 10th, 2005 11:14 pm

Jerry,
There is also no one to confirm that they’re lying. That’s the problem. A friend of mine went to the HI, and the camera was just over the reception desk, so who knows how much it would have captured even if Natalee came in or not.

Don’t get me wrong, I want this case solved so badly, mostly because I’m tired of hearing people pose themseves as experts on this island when they’ve not even been here. Furthermore, as I understand it, v/d Sloot’s father is NOT a judge, he is jurist / lawyer at the office of Dutch-Aruban liaisons (KABNAA). So, while, yes, he’s probably a big-shot, I’m not too sure that the police actually knew this as they questioned them, since the employees of this departments aren’t well known to the people. Second, I’m not too sure of what goes on in the States, but in criminal cases we are not too concerned “who the daddy be”. It just makes it a bigger deal.
As for the cover-up theory..*sigh*. At this point feelings are running so high that the Crown Prince could have been involved in this, and he would be arrested it, just to get this over with. I really really really doubt that there is a cover-up going on, what with the FBI and whole damn world on their butts.
I personally think that she overdosed in some way, the boys panicked and they dumped her body into the sea. It’s just too evil to think about it, though.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1387.540

USE ME: RUMORS OF BREAKING NEWS 3
 
« Reply #543 on: June 14, 2005, 07:21:57 PM » Arubagirl     
van der Straaten, according to his son (who I'm friends with), isn't too fond of KABNAA (=place where v/d Sloot works) nowadays.

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2005/06/11/natalee-holloway-information-viii/#comments

arubagirl on June 11th, 2005 8:37 am
Okay, I have 5 hours of sleep.

Just FYI. Latest info: There is NONE. NOTHING. Everybody on the radio is playing (normal) music, the local tv stations are playing their American affiliates (CNN and NBC), it’s all quiet.

You know what I’d really really really like to know from Jim? Why are you so ready to believe that there will be a cover-up? I don’t think that the sentence will match what they would have gotten in the States, true, but I can assure that it’s not as if they’re going to forget this whole thing happened and give the guys community service.

Also, about van der Sloot’s father. From what I understand, he is a jurist / lawyer at the Dutch - Aruban - Netherlands Antilles Liaisons office. (KABNAA). He tried to be a judge, but didn’t make the cut. Promise to update as soon as something happens.

NativeLingo on June 11th, 2005 11:31 am

Ronald, He is not a “Judge”….YET and I don’t think he will ever be appointed after this….Maximum sentence is 20 to life…Leila on June 11th, 2005 11:33 am Many high profile people have children gone wrong, wont affect appointment necessarily

Leila on June 11th, 2005 11:36 am
Father works for KABNAA, not working in courthouse as a judge

Leila on June 11th, 2005 11:40 am
Father is an attorney, studying for judge which takes 8 years, long road . Father seems to be a very nice guy, soft spoken, very friedly and liked by locals. Son is somethng els of course

NativeLingo on June 11th, 2005 11:42 am
Leila, I agree, but looking at the MAGNITUDE and far-reaching implications of this case, I think it will affect the father…..





The Fallen Judge and the singing card (DirtyHand) are of the same hand

he walks in many (family) circles

http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/archive.cgi?read=73437



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on August 14, 2008, 11:08:46 PM
lots of Shango in that 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on August 14, 2008, 11:16:11 PM
lots of Shango in that 



Will save it for the morning...Goodnight COLOMBO!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 14, 2008, 11:59:08 PM
Why would the singing card and Dirty Hand be the same person?   ::MonkeyCool::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on August 15, 2008, 07:08:30 AM
lots of Shango in that 



Will save it for the morning...Goodnight COLOMBO!

Now I am convinced Paulus was never a Judge. So to me he can't be the Fallen Judge....Sorry COLOMBO...

If Lorenzo is our singing card, then I am still leaning towards Judge Leo van Gijn. This is all I can find on him other than one case on prostitution.

GIJN L. , born in August 1954 NLRM 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 NLRM 92
93 94 95 96 97 98
Ministry of Defence Gerechtsauditeur Board of Appeals Civil Service Tribunal Hague on December 20, 1991
Deputy Chairman of the Board of Appeals Civil Service Tribunal Hague on December 20, 1991
Gerechtsauditeur also deputy court Judge-Den Haag l July 1992
Judge Hague court on August 24, 1993
Judge Zutphen court on September 1, 1994
Kantonrechter-alternate Apeldoorn October 10, 1994
Kantonrechter-alternate Groenlo October 10, 1994
Kantonrechter-alternate Harderwijk October 10, 1994
Kantonrechter alternate Terborg-October 10, 1994
Kantonrechter-alternate Zutphen October 10, 1994
NOW NOW
Judge Zutphen Zutphen
Kantonrechter-Substitute Harderwijk Kantonrechter-alternate; active
Apeldoorn Kantonrechter-Substitute
Terborg Kantonrechter-Substitute
Groenlo Kantonrechter-Substitute
ALSO ALSO
Selecteur administrative rulings SDU - publishing Administrative Law Reports
The relationship is exercised in my hometown and is remunerated August 19, 1997

Anyone have the info on Paul van Rijn? Date of birth, place of birth, date of death, birth certificate, death certificate...TIA ::MonkeyHaHa::

If the info on Paulus being a Judge was garbage, it is possible that the VW daddy of Lorenzo was as well.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on August 15, 2008, 07:19:08 AM
Bringing this post of mine forward as I still need help... ::MonkeyHaHa::

Reply #949 on: April 25, 2008, 02:59:29 PM » Rob

Caps there are 5 Dirty Hands

Dirty Hand
DirtyHand
Dirty hand
dirty hand
dirtyhand

Shango on June 27th, 2005 9:44 pm
Babalu opened a window looking into babylon on his 12:31 A.M. Post
DirtyHand is alive


Shango on June 27th, 2005 9:48 pm
Babalu knew who dirty hand was at half past 12

Help! I am a little confused, as usual with Shango and his posts. Isn’t he saying here that DirtyHand and dirty hand are the same person? I like Rob always thought there was 5...now I am not so sure.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on August 15, 2008, 08:45:39 AM

COLUMBO'S link took me back to reading the tni.org document. Found this interesting and want to keep it all here for future reference. Plus the business connections bother me…

Hendrick Croes is directly tied to the Mansur families’ business dealings. He and Jossy appear to be the 2 leading political figures on the island, opposite parties. Hendrick’s brother Betico was a political leader of the same party as Jossy. Hendrick Croes is also the Lawyer for the government of Aruba.

A Smugglers' Paradise

The Intercon Financial Bank on Aruba is represented by the law-firm Croes & Wever. One of the partners is former Minister of Justice Hendrik Croes. The firm's trust-company Arulex was implicated in setting up the bank. "Yes, we are involved with that bank," says Croes. "We still handle all their legal affairs, but we don't know anything of their financial accounts." (70)

Hendrik Croes – a brother of the island's legendary leader, the late Betico Croes who guided Aruba to its semi-independent status in the Dutch realm – is one of the leading political figures on the island. He led several election campaigns for the MEP, now in the opposition. The Croes Family has been accused of ties with Cuntrera-Caruana. The Sicilian mafiosi payed for a trip of another brother, Rudy Croes (who succeeded Hendrik as Minister of Justice in a previous MEP government) as party secretary to a meeting of the Socialist International in Turkey. This has not been denied.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=3128.460

Reply #467 on: July 28, 2008, 04:58:29 PM » Quisp
   
 Another snip..."The Cuntrera-Caruana clan had links with another Aruban bank: the Interbank. The bank granted a credit to the Cuntrera company "Investeringen Tweehonderd en Tien" for 1.8 million Aruban guilders (approximately one million dollars). Why the Cuntreras who own several investment companies in Venezuela needed the loan is unknown.One could speculate, however, this was a 'loan-back' operation to launder money. An amount of money is deposited cash at a bank and the bank lends the money back: now there is a clean and legitimate source of earnings.                                         
****
The Interbank is owned by the Mansur Family. If anybody owns 60 per cent of the island, it is this powerful family.                                           
****
Jossy Mansur is the owner and chief editor of the biggest newspaper on the island, "Diario". "When I read an article in Diario, I know what will be the next action of the government,"says Hendrik Croes, adding that the Mansurs create a climate of fear and intimidation on Aruba."



Reply #474 on: July 28, 2008, 05:26:34 PM » Pita

I don't know how Hendrik Croes could make a statement about now knowing anything about financial accounts when Arulex, among others, is listed as a corporate body of Intercon Financial Bank. 
Hendrik Croes is a Managing Director of Arulex N.V.

INTERCON FINANCIAL BANK N.V.   
Business address PUNTA BRABO Z/N, ORANJESTAD WEST 
Legal form  LIMITED LIABILITY COMPANY 
Name of the company  INTERCON FINANCIAL BANK N.V. 
Statutory seat  ARUBA 
Date of incorporation  8 DECEMBER 1989   

DIRECTORS - AUTHORIZED PERSONS AND CORPORATE BODIES - SUPERVISORY BOARD:   

ARULEX N.V.   
Established at  ARULEX CENTER, PUNTA BRABO Z/N, ORANJESTAD, ARUBA 
Position  MANAGING DIRECTOR 
Since  8 DECEMBER 1989  ****************************************************************
ARULEX N.V.   

Business address PUNTA BRABO Z/N, ORANJESTAD WEST 
Legal form  LIMITED LIABILITY COMPANY 
Name of the company  ARULEX N.V. 
Statutory seat  ARUBA 
Date of incorporation  28 MARCH 1973 
Last amendment in the articles  20 JULY 1988       

DIRECTORS - AUTHORIZED PERSONS AND CORPORATE BODIES - SUPERVISORY BOARD:   

CROES, HENDRIK SEFERINO; 
Residing in  SEROE PITA 22, PARADERA, ARUBA 
Born in  ARUBA on 8 JANUARY 1942 
Nationality  DUTCH 
Position  MANAGING DIRECTOR 
Effective  19 SEPTEMBER 1975  Authority  FULL     

TCHONG, PETRUS JOANNES; 
Residing in  BYRONSTRAAT 13, ORANJESTAD, ARUBA 
Born in  ARUBA on 26 DECEMBER 1944 
Nationality  DUTCH  Position  MANAGING DIRECTOR 
Effective  26 OCTOBER 1995 
Authority  FULL     

WEVER, IRIS; 
Residing in  ESMERALDA 37, NOORD, ARUBA 
Born in  THE NETHERLANDS, NIJMEGEN on 8 FEBRUARY 1965 
Nationality  DUTCH 
Position  MANAGING DIRECTOR 
Effective  1 SEPTEMBER 1997 
Authority  FULL     

WEVER-CROES, EVELYN CHRISTINA; 
Residing in  SEROE BLANCO 245, ORANJESTAD, ARUBA 
Born in  ARUBA on 5 DECEMBER 1966 
Nationality  DUTCH 
Position  MANAGING DIRECTOR 
Effective  11 MARCH 2004 
Authority  FULL     

PASSCHIER, DAVID MARTIN; 
Residing in  SEROE BIENTO 15-A, SANTA CRUZ, ARUBA 
Born in  ARUBA on 14 OCTOBER 1973 
Nationality  DUTCH 
Position  MANAGING DIRECTOR  Effective  11 MARCH 2004 
Authority  FULL     


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on August 15, 2008, 09:11:09 AM
More background on Hendrick...

Hendrik S. Croes (Aruba 1942) Admitted to practice Aruba 1967, Netherlands Antilles 1967 and Supreme Court of the Kingdom of the Netherlands 1967. Educated at Leiden University LL.M. 1967.
Minister of Education and Constitutional Affairs 1973-76, Minister of Justice and Constitutional Affairs 1979-81, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Preparing Aruba for New Constitutional Status 1984-85 and Minister of Public Health Sept 1985 to Dec 1985 Netherlands Antilles. Minister of Justice Feb 1989 to March 1993 Aruba. Member Kingdom Committee to advise on all aspects of Aruba's independence 1982 and Member Kingdom Committee to advise on the relations with European Union 2004.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 15, 2008, 11:02:27 AM
Lala’s…Leila and AG…AUA - Another Useless Acronym ::MonkeyHaHa::

Clues on Nativelingo…   

NativeLingo on June 11th, 2005 4:54 pm
Natalee’s mother just spotted walking in the renaissance mall. Kid you NOT….

NativeLingo on June 11th, 2005 4:56 pm
She’s with a group of people, and looks rather “slow”….decoy?? I can’t imagine that..

NativeLingo on June 11th, 2005 4:58 pm
No Idea mwood, I own a store in the mall, and 3 other tenants have called me sofar with the same story…. WTH????

arubagirl on June 11th, 2005 5:00 pm
Oh, you do native? I was just there today.

NativeLingo on June 11th, 2005 5:02 pm
Been there for 7 years…….

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2005/06/11/natalee-holloway-comments-post-4/#comments

NativeLingo on June 11th, 2005 9:31 pm
Arubagirl….have you ever been to maui?

NativeLingo on June 11th, 2005 9:49 pm
Arubagirl…..true….I had the same experiences here and in the US

NativeLingo on June 11th, 2005 10:27 pm
Arubagirl…astrid is just 14 years old….. a smart 14 yr old

NativeLingo on June 11th, 2005 10:35 pm
Biggy….r u from aua?

Biggy on June 11th, 2005 10:36 pm
Yes but living across the atlantic for 2 years now










FYI...Red met Native Lingo and AG when he was on Aruba...he knows who they are.  NL last name at the time was Croes if I remember correctly and she owned a business on Aruba in the mall.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 15, 2008, 11:10:39 AM
Bringing this post of mine forward as I still need help... ::MonkeyHaHa::

Reply #949 on: April 25, 2008, 02:59:29 PM » Rob

Caps there are 5 Dirty Hands

Dirty Hand
DirtyHand
Dirty hand
dirty hand
dirtyhand

Shango on June 27th, 2005 9:44 pm
Babalu opened a window looking into babylon on his 12:31 A.M. Post
DirtyHand is alive


Shango on June 27th, 2005 9:48 pm
Babalu knew who dirty hand was at half past 12

Help! I am a little confused, as usual with Shango and his posts. Isn’t he saying here that DirtyHand and dirty hand are the same person? I like Rob always thought there was 5...now I am not so sure.



Shango says there are many dirty hands.  I take that to mean there is more than one...would that not fit what Shango said was a window also?  van der Straten, Duetekom...etc.  Shango meant one in particular in certain posts, but he called one an Arawak Dirty Hand and also said dirty hand is not an Arawak.  So by that, I am thinking there is more than one.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 6:19 pm
There are many DirtyHands among the Arawak, and so it has been for centuries…

Shango Says:June 26th, 2005 at 9:19 pm
DirtyHand is not an Arawak
The singing card can not be played
The cowboys would circle the wagons
The arawaks are preparing the sacrifice
light the fires
the gods are talking

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:32 pm
The sacrifice is the correct food to appease the gods, arawaks, and cowboys
but the foundations of the house of babylon will shake
even harder if Arawak Dirty Hand is revealed




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on August 15, 2008, 04:27:01 PM
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:42 pm
Arawaks hold singing card from babylon
There is also a trio. One Babylonian. 2 Shivas.
Arawaks can’t let babylonian Card (DirtyHand) sing because hand holding it dirty too.
Many teepees fall. No Wampum. (Arawaks worried about teepees)

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:01 pm
Arawaks often go to play in small houses of Babylon with the offspring of the Elders

------->
Babalú Says: June 27th, 2005 at 12:30 am
Concerned: No, I guess he is head of some local official corps (ARAWAK!). He is the guy that knows everything and that has been in the house of Babylonians NOT seeking pleasure for himself, so Shango says. So maybe he went to search for Natalee (TO PLAY!) and he is the chief of Polis.
 
The Arawaks want the truth to come out
As long as DirtyHand is not found

Gods of the cowboys know there was a game in the great house,
and so DirtyHand was discovered
http://www.ca11.uscourts.gov/opinions/ops/200214306.pdf
(pg 4: the "game")

DirtyHand is not a child of Babylon
He holds the real key (key to what? the car or the house? the third act?)
The Arawaks fear his exposure

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:43 pm
Mary rolled into the maze
to play with lions
but it was not a game
the lamb ran bleating (they "play" in the maze-but this was not a "game")

Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 12:23 am
Follow the notes
to the poison house (DirtyHand holds the real key)
where the children of the babylonians (who play in the maze)
and the arawak nation (Arawaks!)
meet, under cover of delusion. (DirtyHand is the link!)
In the maze
the lions which play
shall be found.
The gamblers also took note.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on August 15, 2008, 04:29:45 PM
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:42 pm
Arawaks hold singing card from babylon
There is also a trio. One Babylonian. 2 Shivas.
Arawaks can’t let babylonian Card (DirtyHand) sing because hand holding it dirty too.
Many teepees fall. No Wampum. (Arawaks worried about teepees)

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:01 pm
Arawaks often go to play in small houses of Babylon with the offspring of the Elders

------->
Babalú Says: June 27th, 2005 at 12:30 am
Concerned: No, I guess he is head of some local official corps (ARAWAK!). He is the guy that knows everything and that has been in the house of Babylonians NOT seeking pleasure for himself, so Shango says. So maybe he went to search for Natalee (TO PLAY!) and he is the chief of Polis.
 
The Arawaks want the truth to come out
As long as DirtyHand is not found

Gods of the cowboys know there was a game in the great house,
and so DirtyHand was discovered
http://www.ca11.uscourts.gov/opinions/ops/200214306.pdf
(pg 4: the "game")

DirtyHand is not a child of Babylon
He holds the real key (key to what? the car or the house? the third act?)
The Arawaks fear his exposure

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:43 pm
Mary rolled into the maze
to play with lions
but it was not a game
the lamb ran bleating (they "play" in the maze-but this was not a "game")

Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 12:23 am
Follow the notes
to the poison house (DirtyHand holds the real key)
where the children of the babylonians (who play in the maze)
and the arawak nation (Arawaks!)
meet, under cover of delusion. (DirtyHand is the link!)
In the maze
the lions which play
shall be found.
The gamblers also took note.




Arawak Dirty Hand=Arawaks "playing" in the maze

the fifth suspect has a history of making himself out to be something he is not.....an Arawak! (No wonder he played the babylonian card!)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 15, 2008, 04:41:24 PM
Dirty Hand=singing card=5th suspect???? 

Are they one and the same?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on August 15, 2008, 08:30:20 PM
Dirty Hand=singing card=5th suspect???? 

Are they one and the same?


DirtyHand=singing card (babylonian, not Arawak...links young babylonians & Arawaks)

Arawak Dirty Hand (<many> "Arawaks often go to play.....")

fifth suspect (a lowly minion) has a history of making himself something he's not-an Arawak! a 'fallen judge'


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on August 15, 2008, 10:12:09 PM
Why would the singing card and Dirty Hand be the same person?   ::MonkeyCool::



Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 2:58 pm
The music man’s song was not on the bill.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:09 pm
Simian, who else plays in the orchestra? A Babylonian….

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:10 pm
Simian, older PVDS had one ot two cards up his sleeve. They have been played, and lost. Will one of the cards sing?

And the Arawaks keep their singing card hidden as well
The fallen judge and the singing card are of the same hand, but it is dangerous for the Arawaks to play it, because everyone would hear, including the cowboys


Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:48 pm
The card of babylon was already played
if it sings, DirtyHand will bring down the Royal House on top of the Arawak Nation

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:53 pm
DirtyHand is the key
He walks with the elders
He walks in all houses
And he walked with the fallen elder
he was the hidden card that was played
now if he sings, babylon will fall on the arawak nation

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 6:13 pm
His lordship did not bring the key, it does not exist.
doors to eden remain closed.
The arawaks hold the singing cards. They have the babylonian and 2 shivas. But the other card is dirty.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on August 15, 2008, 10:16:16 PM
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:10 pm
Simian, older PVDS had one ot two cards up his sleeve. They have been played, and lost. Will one of the cards sing?

he (DirtyHand) was the hidden card (one of two) that was played (by PVDS)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on August 16, 2008, 09:09:47 AM
Bringing this post of mine forward as I still need help... ::MonkeyHaHa::

Reply #949 on: April 25, 2008, 02:59:29 PM » Rob

Caps there are 5 Dirty Hands

Dirty Hand
DirtyHand
Dirty hand
dirty hand
dirtyhand

Shango on June 27th, 2005 9:44 pm
Babalu opened a window looking into babylon on his 12:31 A.M. Post
DirtyHand is alive


Shango on June 27th, 2005 9:48 pm
Babalu knew who dirty hand was at half past 12

Help! I am a little confused, as usual with Shango and his posts. Isn’t he saying here that DirtyHand and dirty hand are the same person? I like Rob always thought there was 5...now I am not so sure.



Shango says there are many dirty hands.  I take that to mean there is more than one...would that not fit what Shango said was a window also?  van der Straten, Duetekom...etc.  Shango meant one in particular in certain posts, but he called one an Arawak Dirty Hand and also said dirty hand is not an Arawak.  So by that, I am thinking there is more than one.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 6:19 pm
There are many DirtyHands among the Arawak, and so it has been for centuries…

Shango Says:June 26th, 2005 at 9:19 pm
DirtyHand is not an Arawak
The singing card can not be played
The cowboys would circle the wagons
The arawaks are preparing the sacrifice
light the fires
the gods are talking

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:32 pm
The sacrifice is the correct food to appease the gods, arawaks, and cowboys
but the foundations of the house of babylon will shake
even harder if Arawak Dirty Hand is revealed







Babalú on June 27th, 2005 12:30 am
Concerned
No, I guess he is head of some local official corps. He is the guy that knows everything and that has been in the house of Babylonians NOT seeking pleasure for himself, so Shango says. So maybe he went to search for Natalee and he is the chief of Polis.

Shango on June 27th, 2005 9:44 pm
Babalu opened a window looking into babylon on his 12:31 A.M. Post
DirtyHand is alive


Shango on June 27th, 2005 9:48 pm
Babalu knew who dirty hand was at half past 12

Lala’s…Baby steps…So Babalu opened the window on DirtyHand and knew who dirty hand was in the same post? Thanks..


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on August 16, 2008, 11:06:36 AM
Lala’s…Leila and AG…AUA - Another Useless Acronym ::MonkeyHaHa::

Clues on Nativelingo…   

NativeLingo on June 11th, 2005 4:54 pm
Natalee’s mother just spotted walking in the renaissance mall. Kid you NOT….

NativeLingo on June 11th, 2005 4:56 pm
She’s with a group of people, and looks rather “slow”….decoy?? I can’t imagine that..

NativeLingo on June 11th, 2005 4:58 pm
No Idea mwood, I own a store in the mall, and 3 other tenants have called me sofar with the same story…. WTH????

arubagirl on June 11th, 2005 5:00 pm
Oh, you do native? I was just there today.

NativeLingo on June 11th, 2005 5:02 pm
Been there for 7 years…….

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2005/06/11/natalee-holloway-comments-post-4/#comments

NativeLingo on June 11th, 2005 9:31 pm
Arubagirl….have you ever been to maui?

NativeLingo on June 11th, 2005 9:49 pm
Arubagirl…..true….I had the same experiences here and in the US

NativeLingo on June 11th, 2005 10:27 pm
Arubagirl…astrid is just 14 years old….. a smart 14 yr old

NativeLingo on June 11th, 2005 10:35 pm
Biggy….r u from aua?

Biggy on June 11th, 2005 10:36 pm
Yes but living across the atlantic for 2 years now










FYI...Red met Native Lingo and AG when he was on Aruba...he knows who they are.  NL last name at the time was Croes if I remember correctly and she owned a business on Aruba in the mall.

When I read the following, it reminded me of Charles Croes' post on the aruba.com message board....I just don't have that handy, nor do I remember the date, but believe it was soon after Natalee's family & friends arrived.

NativeLingo on June 11th, 2005 11:42 am
Leila, I agree, but looking at the MAGNITUDE and far-reaching implications of this case, I think it will affect the father…..



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on August 16, 2008, 02:31:07 PM
Lala’s…Leila and AG…AUA - Another Useless Acronym ::MonkeyHaHa::

Clues on Nativelingo…   

NativeLingo on June 11th, 2005 4:54 pm
Natalee’s mother just spotted walking in the renaissance mall. Kid you NOT….

NativeLingo on June 11th, 2005 4:56 pm
She’s with a group of people, and looks rather “slow”….decoy?? I can’t imagine that..

NativeLingo on June 11th, 2005 4:58 pm
No Idea mwood, I own a store in the mall, and 3 other tenants have called me sofar with the same story…. WTH????

arubagirl on June 11th, 2005 5:00 pm
Oh, you do native? I was just there today.

NativeLingo on June 11th, 2005 5:02 pm
Been there for 7 years…….

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2005/06/11/natalee-holloway-comments-post-4/#comments

NativeLingo on June 11th, 2005 9:31 pm
Arubagirl….have you ever been to maui?

NativeLingo on June 11th, 2005 9:49 pm
Arubagirl…..true….I had the same experiences here and in the US

NativeLingo on June 11th, 2005 10:27 pm
Arubagirl…astrid is just 14 years old….. a smart 14 yr old

NativeLingo on June 11th, 2005 10:35 pm
Biggy….r u from aua?

Biggy on June 11th, 2005 10:36 pm
Yes but living across the atlantic for 2 years now










FYI...Red met Native Lingo and AG when he was on Aruba...he knows who they are.  NL last name at the time was Croes if I remember correctly and she owned a business on Aruba in the mall.

When I read the following, it reminded me of Charles Croes' post on the aruba.com message board....I just don't have that handy, nor do I remember the date, but believe it was soon after Natalee's family & friends arrived.

NativeLingo on June 11th, 2005 11:42 am
Leila, I agree, but looking at the MAGNITUDE and far-reaching implications of this case, I think it will affect the father…..




Just saw it yesterday, but of course couldn’t find it…Found it on Fok…Look at the date????

----------------------------------------------------------------------------CHARLES CROES - WHAT HAPPENED?

http://bb.visitaruba.com/showthread.php?p=18418          June 2, 2005

Author: Charles (—.setardsl.aw) Date: 06-02-05 09:01

There are issues in this case that can go beyond the obvious in their implications. It will take time for all the information regarding this lovely child to come out. Some of it will be hard to handle and some of it will be expected. With regards to the family of this missing child, my prayers are with you. I was with them on the first night they arrived to ARuba (looking for their daughter) from midnight until 5:30 AM and have kept in touch. In my opinion, this issue has far reaching implications for all those involved. I wish all of us strength

charles croes aruba
fastphones.com


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on August 16, 2008, 02:39:30 PM
Lala’s…Leila and AG…AUA - Another Useless Acronym ::MonkeyHaHa::

Clues on Nativelingo…   

NativeLingo on June 11th, 2005 4:54 pm
Natalee’s mother just spotted walking in the renaissance mall. Kid you NOT….

NativeLingo on June 11th, 2005 4:56 pm
She’s with a group of people, and looks rather “slow”….decoy?? I can’t imagine that..

NativeLingo on June 11th, 2005 4:58 pm
No Idea mwood, I own a store in the mall, and 3 other tenants have called me sofar with the same story…. WTH????

arubagirl on June 11th, 2005 5:00 pm
Oh, you do native? I was just there today.

NativeLingo on June 11th, 2005 5:02 pm
Been there for 7 years…….

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2005/06/11/natalee-holloway-comments-post-4/#comments

NativeLingo on June 11th, 2005 9:31 pm
Arubagirl….have you ever been to maui?

NativeLingo on June 11th, 2005 9:49 pm
Arubagirl…..true….I had the same experiences here and in the US

NativeLingo on June 11th, 2005 10:27 pm
Arubagirl…astrid is just 14 years old….. a smart 14 yr old

NativeLingo on June 11th, 2005 10:35 pm
Biggy….r u from aua?

Biggy on June 11th, 2005 10:36 pm
Yes but living across the atlantic for 2 years now










FYI...Red met Native Lingo and AG when he was on Aruba...he knows who they are.  NL last name at the time was Croes if I remember correctly and she owned a business on Aruba in the mall.

When I read the following, it reminded me of Charles Croes' post on the aruba.com message board....I just don't have that handy, nor do I remember the date, but believe it was soon after Natalee's family & friends arrived.

NativeLingo on June 11th, 2005 11:42 am
Leila, I agree, but looking at the MAGNITUDE and far-reaching implications of this case, I think it will affect the father…..




Just saw it yesterday, but of course couldn’t find it…Found it on Fok…Look at the date????

----------------------------------------------------------------------------CHARLES CROES - WHAT HAPPENED?

http://bb.visitaruba.com/showthread.php?p=18418       June 2, 2005

Author: Charles (—.setardsl.aw) Date: 06-02-05 09:01

There are issues in this case that can go beyond the obvious in their implications. It will take time for all the information regarding this lovely child to come out. Some of it will be hard to handle and some of it will be expected. With regards to the family of this missing child, my prayers are with you. I was with them on the first night they arrived to ARuba (looking for their daughter) from midnight until 5:30 AM and have kept in touch. In my opinion, this issue has far reaching implications for all those involved. I wish all of us strength

charles croes aruba
fastphones.com


Mrs. Charles Croes?  ::MonkeyShocked::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on August 16, 2008, 02:41:52 PM
Lala’s…Leila and AG…AUA - Another Useless Acronym ::MonkeyHaHa::

Clues on Nativelingo…   

NativeLingo on June 11th, 2005 4:54 pm
Natalee’s mother just spotted walking in the renaissance mall. Kid you NOT….

NativeLingo on June 11th, 2005 4:56 pm
She’s with a group of people, and looks rather “slow”….decoy?? I can’t imagine that..

NativeLingo on June 11th, 2005 4:58 pm
No Idea mwood, I own a store in the mall, and 3 other tenants have called me sofar with the same story…. WTH????

arubagirl on June 11th, 2005 5:00 pm
Oh, you do native? I was just there today.

NativeLingo on June 11th, 2005 5:02 pm
Been there for 7 years…….

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2005/06/11/natalee-holloway-comments-post-4/#comments

NativeLingo on June 11th, 2005 9:31 pm
Arubagirl….have you ever been to maui?

NativeLingo on June 11th, 2005 9:49 pm
Arubagirl…..true….I had the same experiences here and in the US

NativeLingo on June 11th, 2005 10:27 pm
Arubagirl…astrid is just 14 years old….. a smart 14 yr old

NativeLingo on June 11th, 2005 10:35 pm
Biggy….r u from aua?

Biggy on June 11th, 2005 10:36 pm
Yes but living across the atlantic for 2 years now










FYI...Red met Native Lingo and AG when he was on Aruba...he knows who they are.  NL last name at the time was Croes if I remember correctly and she owned a business on Aruba in the mall.

When I read the following, it reminded me of Charles Croes' post on the aruba.com message board....I just don't have that handy, nor do I remember the date, but believe it was soon after Natalee's family & friends arrived.

NativeLingo on June 11th, 2005 11:42 am
Leila, I agree, but looking at the MAGNITUDE and far-reaching implications of this case, I think it will affect the father…..




Just saw it yesterday, but of course couldn’t find it…Found it on Fok…Look at the date????

----------------------------------------------------------------------------CHARLES CROES - WHAT HAPPENED?

http://bb.visitaruba.com/showthread.php?p=18418      June 2, 2005

Author: Charles (—.setardsl.aw) Date: 06-02-05 09:01

There are issues in this case that can go beyond the obvious in their implications. It will take time for all the information regarding this lovely child to come out. Some of it will be hard to handle and some of it will be expected. With regards to the family of this missing child, my prayers are with you. I was with them on the first night they arrived to ARuba (looking for their daughter) from midnight until 5:30 AM and have kept in touch. In my opinion, this issue has far reaching implications for all those involved. I wish all of us strength

charles croes aruba
fastphones.com

Yes, having spent hours on RWV, message boards and especially here, I knew it was soon after Beth & company arrived on Aruba.  Thank you, Mum for spending the time to find it with the date.   Now, could NativeLingo be CC's young wife, or am I off the beaten path...which is okay....It's the S&S thread and I'm consistently lost.  ::MonkeyWink::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on August 16, 2008, 02:41:56 PM
Sorry messed up the link...didn't go there so I don't even know if it still works!

http://bb.visitaruba.com/showthread.php?p=18418


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on August 16, 2008, 02:44:08 PM
 ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyHaHa::  MUM!!!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on August 16, 2008, 02:47:25 PM
Sorry messed up the link...didn't go there so I don't even know if it still works!

http://bb.visitaruba.com/showthread.php?p=18418


Yes, it still works.  I didn't notice a messed up link...maybe I can fix it.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on August 16, 2008, 02:48:03 PM
Hi 2NJSons...Well Lala's posted that her name was Croes...She's been to the US and Maui...Owns a shop in the Renaissance Mall, which is pricey.

What else do we know about Charles Croes wife?

I am still wondering who the 14 year old Astrid is, some-one NativeLingo knows, as I didn't see Astrid post that herself!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on August 16, 2008, 02:53:00 PM
::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyHaHa::  MUM!!!


 ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyHaHa::

It has the date tied into the link where I first posted it...I think...

It is either Charles, his wife or they are posting from the same script.

Great catch 2NJS.. ::MonkeyCool::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on August 16, 2008, 02:57:49 PM
Hi 2NJSons...Well Lala's posted that her name was Croes...She's been to the US and Maui...Owns a shop in the Renaissance Mall, which is pricey.

What else do we know about Charles Croes wife?

I am still wondering who the 14 year old Astrid is, some-one NativeLingo knows, as I didn't see Astrid post that herself!

My mind is telling me we knew more about Mrs. C. Croes but my memory is not cooperating with the details.  I do remember she was younger...they have a young son, who CC has written about on the aruba travel boards....have no clue who Astrid is...

PS...I fixed the links.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on August 16, 2008, 03:02:11 PM
Hi 2NJSons...Well Lala's posted that her name was Croes...She's been to the US and Maui...Owns a shop in the Renaissance Mall, which is pricey.

What else do we know about Charles Croes wife?

I am still wondering who the 14 year old Astrid is, some-one NativeLingo knows, as I didn't see Astrid post that herself!

My mind is telling me we knew more about Mrs. C. Croes but my memory is not cooperating with the details.  I do remember she was younger...they have a young son, who CC has written about on the aruba travel boards....have no clue who Astrid is...

PS...I fixed the links.

Just saw something to go to RU or Scrux which I didn't follow that he had a son called Giovanni. Do you remember a post supposedly from his son about Charles?  IIRC it was not very flattering!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on August 16, 2008, 03:11:01 PM
Hi 2NJSons...Well Lala's posted that her name was Croes...She's been to the US and Maui...Owns a shop in the Renaissance Mall, which is pricey.

What else do we know about Charles Croes wife?

I am still wondering who the 14 year old Astrid is, some-one NativeLingo knows, as I didn't see Astrid post that herself!

My mind is telling me we knew more about Mrs. C. Croes but my memory is not cooperating with the details.  I do remember she was younger...they have a young son, who CC has written about on the aruba travel boards....have no clue who Astrid is...

PS...I fixed the links.

Just saw something to go to RU or Scrux which I didn't follow that he had a son called Giovanni. Do you remember a post supposedly from his son about Charles?  IIRC it was not very flattering!

I vaguely recall something.  I, too, had much saved on another computer....lost it all.  I guess this gives us something else to look for....Astrid & Giovanni???   If Giovanni truly was CC's son and not happy with him, it might be due to prior marriage history...just a guess...if he's not, then there's no point thinking about it.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on August 16, 2008, 03:21:38 PM
Hi 2NJSons...Well Lala's posted that her name was Croes...She's been to the US and Maui...Owns a shop in the Renaissance Mall, which is pricey.

What else do we know about Charles Croes wife?

I am still wondering who the 14 year old Astrid is, some-one NativeLingo knows, as I didn't see Astrid post that herself!

My mind is telling me we knew more about Mrs. C. Croes but my memory is not cooperating with the details.  I do remember she was younger...they have a young son, who CC has written about on the aruba travel boards....have no clue who Astrid is...

PS...I fixed the links.

Just saw something to go to RU or Scrux which I didn't follow that he had a son called Giovanni. Do you remember a post supposedly from his son about Charles?  IIRC it was not very flattering!

I vaguely recall something.  I, too, had much saved on another computer....lost it all.  I guess this gives us something else to look for....Astrid & Giovanni???   If Giovanni truly was CC's son and not happy with him, it might be due to prior marriage history...just a guess...if he's not, then there's no point thinking about it.

Just took a quick look and found a post at RWV from 2006 where Giovanni Croes rumored as son of Charles and the talk then was about GVC arrest.....interesting...then, found a PV where one of the officer's name is Giovanni Croes, but that was at RU....I didn't take the time yet to find it, here...(I may have to leave for a bit, soon)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on August 16, 2008, 03:41:04 PM
Mum, fwiw, I found an astrid croes, but she'd be in her 50s.  (just don't know who Astrid is, so I used that surname  ::MonkeyConfused:: )

http://members.virtualtourist.com/m/107b83/


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on August 16, 2008, 03:43:49 PM
Hi 2NJSons...Well Lala's posted that her name was Croes...She's been to the US and Maui...Owns a shop in the Renaissance Mall, which is pricey.

What else do we know about Charles Croes wife?

I am still wondering who the 14 year old Astrid is, some-one NativeLingo knows, as I didn't see Astrid post that herself!

My mind is telling me we knew more about Mrs. C. Croes but my memory is not cooperating with the details.  I do remember she was younger...they have a young son, who CC has written about on the aruba travel boards....have no clue who Astrid is...

PS...I fixed the links.

Just saw something to go to RU or Scrux which I didn't follow that he had a son called Giovanni. Do you remember a post supposedly from his son about Charles?  IIRC it was not very flattering!

I vaguely recall something.  I, too, had much saved on another computer....lost it all.  I guess this gives us something else to look for....Astrid & Giovanni???   If Giovanni truly was CC's son and not happy with him, it might be due to prior marriage history...just a guess...if he's not, then there's no point thinking about it.

Just took a quick look and found a post at RWV from 2006 where Giovanni Croes rumored as son of Charles and the talk then was about GVC arrest.....interesting...then, found a PV where one of the officer's name is Giovanni Croes, but that was at RU....I didn't take the time yet to find it, here...(I may have to leave for a bit, soon)


LOL...I was just there myself. That was it.

Got to get ready to leave myself.  Be back in the morning. Have a great evening!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: finngirl on August 16, 2008, 04:30:35 PM

#5 Nice comments!
First off, Charles Croes is my biological father(I know his cruelty well) ...

http://justrepublic.wordpress.com/2006/05/18/charles-croes-how-did-he-know/



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Pita on August 16, 2008, 04:31:43 PM
Hi 2NJSons...Well Lala's posted that her name was Croes...She's been to the US and Maui...Owns a shop in the Renaissance Mall, which is pricey.

What else do we know about Charles Croes wife?

I am still wondering who the 14 year old Astrid is, some-one NativeLingo knows, as I didn't see Astrid post that herself!

My mind is telling me we knew more about Mrs. C. Croes but my memory is not cooperating with the details.  I do remember she was younger...they have a young son, who CC has written about on the aruba travel boards....have no clue who Astrid is...

PS...I fixed the links.

Just saw something to go to RU or Scrux which I didn't follow that he had a son called Giovanni. Do you remember a post supposedly from his son about Charles?  IIRC it was not very flattering!

Post from Charles Croes son in response to his comment about far reaching implications......

Nice comments!

First off, Charles Croes is my biological father(I know his cruelty well)
-Moreover, he is a “famous liar” in circles that know him well. He thrives on any kind of perceived power or authority and will readily craft up ambiguous statements or manufacture situations which increase his influence. The sad part, is that although he excels in finding people to lead, he lacks the basic integrity to do them any good. I would say he lacks some very basic human elements as well. Compassion and honesty being only the tip of the iceberg.
In summary, one needs only poke around his shady and needfully obfuscated personal histories to understand that his comments are just hot air. Albeit super-heated at times.
In my opinion, Charles Croes is not the type of man to altruistically help Natalie Holloway, he is the kind of man who would stand on her dead body if the view was only slightly better.
Adam (ashamed of his last name) Croes

 Comment by Atomiczzz | February 4, 2008

http://justrepublic.wordpress.com/2006/05/18/charles-croes-how-did-he-know/#comments



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Pita on August 16, 2008, 04:38:17 PM
I wonder if this is Adam Croes...

Atomiczzz Myspace

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=1964477


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on August 16, 2008, 04:39:36 PM
Thanks, finngirl & Pita.   ::MonkeyCool::  It was a recent post, then....this year, that is, and Adam is the name.... 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: finngirl on August 16, 2008, 04:39:57 PM

Native posted that her young-ish daughter
was treated/counseled for something minor
at the same clinic as JvdS

which is how she knew the receptionist there
who told her/Native that, re anger management,
"_ _ _ _ _ is the least of his problems"

IIRC the blank was "killing dogs"

my apologies if that blank is incorrect ...
the exact quote is here somewhere





Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Pita on August 16, 2008, 04:51:13 PM
Inside the Black
637 N. Bronson, No. 304
Los Angeles, CA 90004
Phone: 323-406-3112
insidetheblack@hotmail.com
www.myspace.com/insidetheblack
www.insidetheblack.com

Fact Sheet
SHORT BIO


Formed in September, 2002 in Los Angeles, Inside The Black uses elements of blues, jazz and straight up rock and roll to create a familiar, yet new take on hard rock. Major influences include Led Zeppelin, Black Sabbath, AC/DC, Aerosmith and Alice in Chains. The band has performed throughout the Los Angeles area in such infamous venues as The Cat Club, The Garage, The Cobalt Café and Dragonfly.

Founding members include Shane Kuhn on vocals, Scott Hunter on guitar and Steve Buehler on drums, with Adam Croes playing bass since 2006. Inside The Black released their self-titled album digitally on July 24, 2006. The fully packagedCD was released on May 15, 2007. The CD was mastered by Ralph Rieckermann, former bassist for The Scorpions.

ALBUM DISTRIBUTION
Traditional
Super D
Online
Amazon.com
CDBaby.com
Digital
iTunes (Worldwide)
eMusic
Napster
Rhapsody
Sony Connect
Audio Lunchbox
Mobile
Verizon V-Cast

MEMBERS
Shane Kuhn: Vocals
Scott Hunter: Guitars
Steve Buehler: Drums
Adam Croes: Bass

ALBUM TRACK LISTING
1. Adult Movies (3:42)
2. Hell to Pay (3:40)
3. Inside the Black (3:33)
4. Fix (2:51)
5. Beautiful Liar (4:03)
6. Full Circle (2:56)
7. Ultraviolet (7:00)
8. Skin (4:04)
All songs written and arranged by Kuhn/Hunter/Buehler.

FILM PLACEMENT
– The song “Inside The Black” is placed in the film Drive-Thru, distributed by Lions Gate and
releasing in North America on DVD on May, 29, 2007.
– The lead actress performs a version of the song in the film.
– Inside The Black’s original version of the song plays during the end credits

http://www.insidetheblack.com/presskit/InsideTheBlack-FactSheet_Album.pdf


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 16, 2008, 06:45:40 PM
I have never been able to determine what native Lingo's first name was for sure.  I know she is not Marrianne Croes of the prosecutor's office so I guess we need to look further.  What about marriage records?  I don't know how to get those. 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 16, 2008, 06:56:19 PM
Well, let me try this again. LOL

I know that she gives her email out to AG or one of the Aruban posters in a comment on the FP.  OR it could be in the forum posts called Rumors of Breaking news.  Either way it's a lot to dig through.  I had it saved once, but can't find it now.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on August 16, 2008, 11:32:22 PM
Well, let me try this again. LOL

I know that she gives her email out to AG or one of the Aruban posters in a comment on the FP.  OR it could be in the forum posts called Rumors of Breaking news.  Either way it's a lot to dig through.  I had it saved once, but can't find it now.

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2005/06/10/natalee-holloway-information-vii/

138.  NativeLingo on June 11th, 2005 1:53 am
CancunMole, Look for me in one of the Renaissance Mall Stores….
m_croesm@yahoo.com
Bon Bini to aruba;)

Btw…..where did everybody from tripadvisor go?

Mum, same link:

134. NativeLingo on June 11th, 2005 1:32 am
Gajin…your feelings are totally understandible……I’m an Aruban…..and a mother of 3 girls……




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on August 17, 2008, 09:28:28 AM
Well, let me try this again. LOL

I know that she gives her email out to AG or one of the Aruban posters in a comment on the FP.  OR it could be in the forum posts called Rumors of Breaking news.  Either way it's a lot to dig through.  I had it saved once, but can't find it now.

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2005/06/10/natalee-holloway-information-vii/

138.  NativeLingo on June 11th, 2005 1:53 am
CancunMole, Look for me in one of the Renaissance Mall Stores….
m_croesm@yahoo.com
Bon Bini to aruba;)

Btw…..where did everybody from tripadvisor go?

Mum, same link:

134. NativeLingo on June 11th, 2005 1:32 am
Gajin…your feelings are totally understandible……I’m an Aruban…..and a mother of 3 girls……





Thanks...Guess I need to reread those pages...LOL...poor brain can only take so much info...Olympics and sleep pattern not helping!

Lots of M. Croes on the Chamber list, so that is no help. Doesn't seem like she is Charles' wife, unless Adam was not her son. Was Charles married twice. Can't find a complete Renaissance Mall store directory either.

Can't find the RWV posts for June 11th. Have they gone?



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on August 17, 2008, 09:39:12 AM
Pita and Finngirl...Thanks for the info...That was the post about Charles Croes I was thinking of Finn.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Buckeye on August 17, 2008, 09:41:04 AM
Hi 2NJSons...Well Lala's posted that her name was Croes...She's been to the US and Maui...Owns a shop in the Renaissance Mall, which is pricey.

What else do we know about Charles Croes wife?

I am still wondering who the 14 year old Astrid is, some-one NativeLingo knows, as I didn't see Astrid post that herself!

My mind is telling me we knew more about Mrs. C. Croes but my memory is not cooperating with the details.  I do remember she was younger...they have a young son, who CC has written about on the aruba travel boards....have no clue who Astrid is...

PS...I fixed the links.


There was an old picture from the ?vistaaruba online paper.  The second, young Mrs. Croes, was a dancer  IIRC.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 17, 2008, 10:17:49 AM
Bringing this post of mine forward as I still need help... ::MonkeyHaHa::

Reply #949 on: April 25, 2008, 02:59:29 PM » Rob

Caps there are 5 Dirty Hands

Dirty Hand
DirtyHand
Dirty hand
dirty hand
dirtyhand

Shango on June 27th, 2005 9:44 pm
Babalu opened a window looking into babylon on his 12:31 A.M. Post
DirtyHand is alive


Shango on June 27th, 2005 9:48 pm
Babalu knew who dirty hand was at half past 12

Help! I am a little confused, as usual with Shango and his posts. Isn’t he saying here that DirtyHand and dirty hand are the same person? I like Rob always thought there was 5...now I am not so sure.



Shango says there are many dirty hands.  I take that to mean there is more than one...would that not fit what Shango said was a window also?  van der Straten, Duetekom...etc.  Shango meant one in particular in certain posts, but he called one an Arawak Dirty Hand and also said dirty hand is not an Arawak.  So by that, I am thinking there is more than one.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 6:19 pm
There are many DirtyHands among the Arawak, and so it has been for centuries…

Shango Says:June 26th, 2005 at 9:19 pm
DirtyHand is not an Arawak
The singing card can not be played
The cowboys would circle the wagons
The arawaks are preparing the sacrifice
light the fires
the gods are talking

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:32 pm
The sacrifice is the correct food to appease the gods, arawaks, and cowboys
but the foundations of the house of babylon will shake
even harder if Arawak Dirty Hand is revealed







Babalú on June 27th, 2005 12:30 am
Concerned
No, I guess he is head of some local official corps. He is the guy that knows everything and that has been in the house of Babylonians NOT seeking pleasure for himself, so Shango says. So maybe he went to search for Natalee and he is the chief of Polis.

Shango on June 27th, 2005 9:44 pm
Babalu opened a window looking into babylon on his 12:31 A.M. Post
DirtyHand is alive


Shango on June 27th, 2005 9:48 pm
Babalu knew who dirty hand was at half past 12

Lala’s…Baby steps…So Babalu opened the window on DirtyHand and knew who dirty hand was in the same post? Thanks..


Not really.  Babalu was guessing.  Shango said he opened a window...now what could that mean?   Got a glimspe of what he was trying to say?  I don't think it means Babalu was dead on right.  Why?  Because Shango didn't say "Babalu scores!"  He did with Drax when Drax was correct with an answer.  So..."opening a window" could mean....Your are getting closer.  MOO


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 17, 2008, 10:20:49 AM
Well, let me try this again. LOL

I know that she gives her email out to AG or one of the Aruban posters in a comment on the FP.  OR it could be in the forum posts called Rumors of Breaking news.  Either way it's a lot to dig through.  I had it saved once, but can't find it now.

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2005/06/10/natalee-holloway-information-vii/

138.  NativeLingo on June 11th, 2005 1:53 am
CancunMole, Look for me in one of the Renaissance Mall Stores….
m_croesm@yahoo.com
Bon Bini to aruba;)

Btw…..where did everybody from tripadvisor go?

Mum, same link:

134. NativeLingo on June 11th, 2005 1:32 am
Gajin…your feelings are totally understandible……I’m an Aruban…..and a mother of 3 girls……




So what does the "M" stand for?  Margaret?  Marilyn?  Melissa?  Mildred? Michelle?  I could go on and on.  According to Mrs. Red it is not Marrianne.  I mean the Marrianne as in the OM office.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on August 17, 2008, 10:46:41 AM
Well, let me try this again. LOL

I know that she gives her email out to AG or one of the Aruban posters in a comment on the FP.  OR it could be in the forum posts called Rumors of Breaking news.  Either way it's a lot to dig through.  I had it saved once, but can't find it now.

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2005/06/10/natalee-holloway-information-vii/

138.  NativeLingo on June 11th, 2005 1:53 am
CancunMole, Look for me in one of the Renaissance Mall Stores….
m_croesm@yahoo.com
Bon Bini to aruba;)

Btw…..where did everybody from tripadvisor go?

Mum, same link:

134. NativeLingo on June 11th, 2005 1:32 am
Gajin…your feelings are totally understandible……I’m an Aruban…..and a mother of 3 girls……




So what does the "M" stand for?  Margaret?  Marilyn?  Melissa?  Mildred? Michelle?  I could go on and on.  According to Mrs. Red it is not Marrianne.  I mean the Marrianne as in the OM office.

You mentioned the email address and I found it for you...that's all....Mum & I were thinking since NativeLingo echoed Charles words in her post then maybe she was his 2nd wife, but I know they have a younger son, and the 3 girls post blew that for me.  Have no idea what Natives name could be, just threw the info out there and, personally, never thought she was Marianne.   Will do a little more searching to see what I can come up with.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on August 17, 2008, 12:50:04 PM
Well, let me try this again. LOL

I know that she gives her email out to AG or one of the Aruban posters in a comment on the FP.  OR it could be in the forum posts called Rumors of Breaking news.  Either way it's a lot to dig through.  I had it saved once, but can't find it now.

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2005/06/10/natalee-holloway-information-vii/

138.  NativeLingo on June 11th, 2005 1:53 am
CancunMole, Look for me in one of the Renaissance Mall Stores….
m_croesm@yahoo.com
Bon Bini to aruba;)

Btw…..where did everybody from tripadvisor go?

Mum, same link:

134. NativeLingo on June 11th, 2005 1:32 am
Gajin…your feelings are totally understandible……I’m an Aruban…..and a mother of 3 girls……




So what does the "M" stand for?  Margaret?  Marilyn?  Melissa?  Mildred? Michelle?  I could go on and on.  According to Mrs. Red it is not Marrianne.  I mean the Marrianne as in the OM office.

 ::MonkeyConfused::  I spent some time in the Chamber of Commerce search and had to take a break.....white pages has a load of M. Croes...not help.

http://arubayp.com/whitesearch.html?phone=&name=croes+m&page=1


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on August 17, 2008, 01:08:09 PM
The babylonians knew it was dangerous to trade among the arawaks

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:32 pm
The sacrifice is the correct food to appease the gods, arawaks, and cowboys
but the foundations of the house of babylon will shake
even harder if Arawak Dirty Hand is revealed

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 6:19 pm
There are many DirtyHands among the Arawak, and so it has been for centuries…

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 8:06 pm
Babalu opened a window looking into Babylon on his 12:31 A.M. post
 

Babalú Says: June 27th, 2005 at 12:30 am
Concerned: No, I guess he is head of some local official corps. He is the guy that knows everything and that has been in the house of Babylonians NOT seeking pleasure for himself, so Shango says. So maybe he went to search for Natalee and he is the chief of Polis.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:01 pm
Arawaks often go to play in small houses of Babylon with the offspring of the Elders

The arawaks hold the singing cards. They have the babylonian and 2 shivas. But the other card is dirty.

Arawaks hold singing card from babylon
There is also a trio. One Babylonian. 2 Shivas.
Arawaks can’t let babylonian Card sing because hand holding it dirty too.

http://www.geocities.com/northstarzone/PALFREY.html





Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on August 17, 2008, 01:10:24 PM
to spare the polis, spare the teepees:

excerpt from above:

"Palfrey’s note used a number of clichéd expressions, strangely including modern day lynching, a darkly ironic reference to her impending manner of death, and also apparently referring to the extremely selective enforcement - they tried to destroy her life, while sparing all of the politically powerful elite who used her services - that found her guilty in federal court of racketeering and money laundering in connection with her operation of an escort service that catered to Washington insiders."

hand holding it dirty too-indeed.......


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 17, 2008, 01:33:52 PM
Well, let me try this again. LOL

I know that she gives her email out to AG or one of the Aruban posters in a comment on the FP.  OR it could be in the forum posts called Rumors of Breaking news.  Either way it's a lot to dig through.  I had it saved once, but can't find it now.

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2005/06/10/natalee-holloway-information-vii/

138.  NativeLingo on June 11th, 2005 1:53 am
CancunMole, Look for me in one of the Renaissance Mall Stores….
m_croesm@yahoo.com
Bon Bini to aruba;)

Btw…..where did everybody from tripadvisor go?

Mum, same link:

134. NativeLingo on June 11th, 2005 1:32 am
Gajin…your feelings are totally understandible……I’m an Aruban…..and a mother of 3 girls……




So what does the "M" stand for?  Margaret?  Marilyn?  Melissa?  Mildred? Michelle?  I could go on and on.  According to Mrs. Red it is not Marrianne.  I mean the Marrianne as in the OM office.

You mentioned the email address and I found it for you...that's all....Mum & I were thinking since NativeLingo echoed Charles words in her post then maybe she was his 2nd wife, but I know they have a younger son, and the 3 girls post blew that for me.  Have no idea what Natives name could be, just threw the info out there and, personally, never thought she was Marianne.   Will do a little more searching to see what I can come up with.

Yes, Thanks for finding it.  I didn't mean to ask you in particular about the names.  I was thinking out loud and typing on the quote.  Sorry.  I knew if you knew who it was you would have said.  I was wondering what name we might look for in the records.  Actually, I don't think I ever really thought about it being CC wife. Hmmmmm.  I am slipping these days.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on August 17, 2008, 01:36:00 PM
Mum,

Went back to read some of CC's stories on bb.visitaruba and found one that mentions younger son (Junior) plus older daughter & son (Shauna & Adam), dated June 16, 2007. 

http://bb.visitaruba.com/showthread.php?t=7188

<Snipped>

True, I a lot about my youngest son “Junior” but a girl named Shauna and a handsome boy name Adam made me very much a Dad. Long ago, when I had not learned anything about being a father, or partner or anything else, I was (and still am) a Dad to them and for that I say thank you for making me a father then and forgive me, and so many of us other fathers, that just did not know how to be one when we ourselves were nothing more than “KIDS”.


An earlier story, dated 6/5/2007, mentions his son, Junior, turning five on 6/6/07...so he'd be 6, now.

http://bb.visitaruba.com/showthread.php?t=7099

<snipped>

JUNIOR
6/5/2007 11:10:32 PM

In a few moments, it will be tomorrow and you will be five. And as much as I would like to let you know how much happiness you have brought to my life, anything I say will be short from the mark
.

That's 3 kids, 2 older from previous marriage and Junior, imo.




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on August 17, 2008, 05:50:18 PM
The babylonians knew it was dangerous to trade among the arawaks

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:30 pm
You always find forbidden desires in the small houses of Babylon
the girl knew this
Find DirtyHand! He too walked in this house of Babylon.
But not to satiate desire.


Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:01 pm
Arawaks often go to play (the "game") in small houses of Babylon with the offspring of the Elders


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on August 18, 2008, 06:14:23 AM
Found this in the archives...BBL to catch up...



http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=381.msg54211#msg54211



Reply #553 on: September 28, 2006, 03:12:25 PM » klaasend
   
 Quote from: "Shizaru"
Klassaend... do you happen to have the Arubagirl post saved where she talks about Joran killing his dog... I am trying to find out the date that was posted

Shizaru - I don't have screen shots of posts.  What I did was write down several posts of NATIVELINGO from one night last summer.  If we ever get our archives back I can capture the actual posts.

Sat Aug 06, 2005 10:56 pm   
Nativelingo posted some interresting information about Joran early this morning:
1.  Joran has/had emotional problems and is a patient of a local pediatric/juvenile psychiatrist (fact).
2.  The incident where Joran killed his dog and blamed it on someone else is fact
3.  That bullying friends and the dog issue are the least of Joran's problems (according to reliable sources)
4.  His HOBBY is Criminal Law (fact)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: klaasend on August 19, 2008, 02:18:21 PM
Ernesto Arambatzis

Nicola Siervo wants an affluent, New York style party populated by models, photographers and other members of the modeling industry for his Monday and Friday night parties at the Metro Kitchen and Bar in the Astor. Who do you hire to promote the party? Answer: someone who has experience in both the nightlife and production arenas: Ernesto Arambatzis.

Ernesto started his career under the wings of Chris Paciello, Ingrid Casareas, and Gerry Kelly, working as the “fashion director” for Bar Room and Shadow Lounge. Then he took a break and became a men’s model booker for Ford Model’s “new faces” section. 

Well, break’s over. Besides the Monday and Friday gig at Metro, he also promotes the already popular Sky Bar at the Shore Club on Saturdays and the newly opened restro-lounge Sabor on Thursdays. He also plans to promote the Pure Lounge above Joia—once its completed that is.

“I love the whole restaurant and lounge thing,” he says. “I have free dinners almost every night.”
http://www.miamisunpost.com/archives/2003/01-23-03/firststoryfrontpage.htm

********************

Unmade Man
Chris Paciello owned two of Miami's hottest clubs and hung out with Ingrid Casares, Jennifer Lopez, and Madonna. A murder charge scattered his A-list pals -- but his gangster vibe is part of what drew them in the first place.

By Robert Kolker & Ethan Brown Published Apr 10, 2000

<snipped>

On December 1, as the culmination of an organized-crime investigation that stretched back at least to 1997, Chris Paciello surrendered to a U.S. Marshal a week after being indicted for a 1993 murder in Staten Island. Since then, prosecutors have claimed in court -- but not yet formally charged -- that Paciello burned down his first Miami club for the insurance money, permitted drug-dealing at Liquid, and tried to intimidate and sabotage three of his competitors. (New York has also learned that he still employs Robert Gordon, described during Limelight owner Peter Gatien's drug trial as a major ecstasy dealer in the early nineties.)

Federal prosecutor James Walden has said in court that a Florida Department of Law Enforcement investigation into the clubs' finances revealed circumstantial evidence of money laundering -- reported profits that are grossly out of proportion with inventory purchases. And though Paciello told a friend last fall that the rumors about his mob connections were spread by people who were "f***ing jealous," his co-defendants in the indictment are all accused of having connections to the Bonanno crime family. The road to trial promises to be bumpy: Just last week, Walden revealed that security guards found marijuana and a partially empty box of .40 caliber bullets hidden in the Staten Island house where Paciello is, by court order, supposed to be monitored 24 hours a day.
http://nymag.com/nymetro/news/crimelaw/features/2758/

********************

Goon Over Miami, Part 3
If Chris Paciello returns to South Beach, he'll find his empire in shambles and local cops hungry to arrest him


By Tristram Korten
Published on March 30, 2000

Article mentions marketing manager Troy Parsons.
http://www.miaminewtimes.com/2000-03-30/news/goon-over-miami-part-3

********************

Ocean DriveMagazine
In association with Gerry Kelly and Noah Lazes Presents:
ELEVATE
The New Wednesday Night@Vivid
Hosted by Troy Parsons & Ernesto Arambatzis
Wednesday June 7th 2000 10PM
Complimentary Bar 10-11pm
RSVP For Complimentary <A HREF="http://www.clubplanet.com/guestlists/" TARGET="_blank">Guest List</A> 305.695.9299
Vivid
743 Washington Avenue
Miami Beach, FL 33139
VIP Table Reservations 305.695.9033 www.vividnightclub.com
http://bbs.clubplanet.com/miami/3252-vivid-nightclub.html


Bar Room Owner Stays Behind Bars
http://www.ganglandnews.com/column157.htm

Club Owner Pleads Guilty in Mob Murder Case
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9806E5DF133FF937A25753C1A9669C8B63

http://blogs.herald.com/scene_in_the_tropics/miami_vice/index.html

Ingrid Casares partner of Chris Paciello.



Three’s Company

Three South Beach Industry Veterans Team Up to Form Company

“Everyone is hitting on us and we love it.” – Tommy Pooch

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a398/vms58/IngridCasares.jpg)
Alan Roth, Ingrid Casares and Tommy Pooch meld their South Beach promoting talents to form TAI. Photo by Mitchell Zachs.

Link (http://www.mamma.com/PicInfo?query=TOMMY+POOCH&qtype=48&PAGE_URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.miamisunpost.com%2Farchives%2F2004%2F10-07-04%2Fthirteenthstoryfrontpage.htm&IMAGE_URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.miamisunpost.com%2Farchives%2F2004%2F10-07-04%2FIMAGE%2Fmain6.jpg&WIDTH=200&HEIGHT=123&FILESIZE=24&COLORS=15984&ANIM=0&COLOR=1&THUMB_URL=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.picsearch.com%2Fis%3FcUtoeIk137_g1ASWGgX_ezmDkwqh-wcBx8c2eclzKSQ&THUMB_WIDTH=128&THUMB_HEIGHT=78&start=)



Again or still in the news (thanks to San for sending this to me):

http://www.nydailynews.com/gossip/2008/08/19/2008-08-19_no_madgeic_touch_on_bail_for_paciello.html

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub4/Paciello.jpg)



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on August 19, 2008, 04:46:35 PM
Hello Everyone,

I just wanted all of you to know that I am OK.  For the past month or so, I have been involved with family needs and a bunch of other things.  I'm a little overwhelmed at this point.  I have no idea what has been happening in Aruba.  As soon as my life settles down a little, I will be back.  I have missed all of you.

SS


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 19, 2008, 05:24:44 PM
Hello Everyone,

I just wanted all of you to know that I am OK.  For the past month or so, I have been involved with family needs and a bunch of other things.  I'm a little overwhelmed at this point.  I have no idea what has been happening in Aruba.  As soon as my life settles down a little, I will be back.  I have missed all of you.

SS


Hey there!  Glad you checked in.  Nothing is happening so you are not behind...we can get you caught up in Shango...now elsewhere may be another story.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 19, 2008, 05:26:15 PM
Ernesto Arambatzis

Nicola Siervo wants an affluent, New York style party populated by models, photographers and other members of the modeling industry for his Monday and Friday night parties at the Metro Kitchen and Bar in the Astor. Who do you hire to promote the party? Answer: someone who has experience in both the nightlife and production arenas: Ernesto Arambatzis.

Ernesto started his career under the wings of Chris Paciello, Ingrid Casareas, and Gerry Kelly, working as the “fashion director” for Bar Room and Shadow Lounge. Then he took a break and became a men’s model booker for Ford Model’s “new faces” section. 

Well, break’s over. Besides the Monday and Friday gig at Metro, he also promotes the already popular Sky Bar at the Shore Club on Saturdays and the newly opened restro-lounge Sabor on Thursdays. He also plans to promote the Pure Lounge above Joia—once its completed that is.

“I love the whole restaurant and lounge thing,” he says. “I have free dinners almost every night.”
http://www.miamisunpost.com/archives/2003/01-23-03/firststoryfrontpage.htm

********************

Unmade Man
Chris Paciello owned two of Miami's hottest clubs and hung out with Ingrid Casares, Jennifer Lopez, and Madonna. A murder charge scattered his A-list pals -- but his gangster vibe is part of what drew them in the first place.

By Robert Kolker & Ethan Brown Published Apr 10, 2000

<snipped>

On December 1, as the culmination of an organized-crime investigation that stretched back at least to 1997, Chris Paciello surrendered to a U.S. Marshal a week after being indicted for a 1993 murder in Staten Island. Since then, prosecutors have claimed in court -- but not yet formally charged -- that Paciello burned down his first Miami club for the insurance money, permitted drug-dealing at Liquid, and tried to intimidate and sabotage three of his competitors. (New York has also learned that he still employs Robert Gordon, described during Limelight owner Peter Gatien's drug trial as a major ecstasy dealer in the early nineties.)

Federal prosecutor James Walden has said in court that a Florida Department of Law Enforcement investigation into the clubs' finances revealed circumstantial evidence of money laundering -- reported profits that are grossly out of proportion with inventory purchases. And though Paciello told a friend last fall that the rumors about his mob connections were spread by people who were "f***ing jealous," his co-defendants in the indictment are all accused of having connections to the Bonanno crime family. The road to trial promises to be bumpy: Just last week, Walden revealed that security guards found marijuana and a partially empty box of .40 caliber bullets hidden in the Staten Island house where Paciello is, by court order, supposed to be monitored 24 hours a day.
http://nymag.com/nymetro/news/crimelaw/features/2758/

********************

Goon Over Miami, Part 3
If Chris Paciello returns to South Beach, he'll find his empire in shambles and local cops hungry to arrest him


By Tristram Korten
Published on March 30, 2000

Article mentions marketing manager Troy Parsons.
http://www.miaminewtimes.com/2000-03-30/news/goon-over-miami-part-3

********************

Ocean DriveMagazine
In association with Gerry Kelly and Noah Lazes Presents:
ELEVATE
The New Wednesday Night@Vivid
Hosted by Troy Parsons & Ernesto Arambatzis
Wednesday June 7th 2000 10PM
Complimentary Bar 10-11pm
RSVP For Complimentary <A HREF="http://www.clubplanet.com/guestlists/" TARGET="_blank">Guest List</A> 305.695.9299
Vivid
743 Washington Avenue
Miami Beach, FL 33139
VIP Table Reservations 305.695.9033 www.vividnightclub.com
http://bbs.clubplanet.com/miami/3252-vivid-nightclub.html


Bar Room Owner Stays Behind Bars
http://www.ganglandnews.com/column157.htm

Club Owner Pleads Guilty in Mob Murder Case
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9806E5DF133FF937A25753C1A9669C8B63

http://blogs.herald.com/scene_in_the_tropics/miami_vice/index.html

Ingrid Casares partner of Chris Paciello.



Three’s Company

Three South Beach Industry Veterans Team Up to Form Company

“Everyone is hitting on us and we love it.” – Tommy Pooch

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a398/vms58/IngridCasares.jpg)
Alan Roth, Ingrid Casares and Tommy Pooch meld their South Beach promoting talents to form TAI. Photo by Mitchell Zachs.

Link (http://www.mamma.com/PicInfo?query=TOMMY+POOCH&qtype=48&PAGE_URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.miamisunpost.com%2Farchives%2F2004%2F10-07-04%2Fthirteenthstoryfrontpage.htm&IMAGE_URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.miamisunpost.com%2Farchives%2F2004%2F10-07-04%2FIMAGE%2Fmain6.jpg&WIDTH=200&HEIGHT=123&FILESIZE=24&COLORS=15984&ANIM=0&COLOR=1&THUMB_URL=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.picsearch.com%2Fis%3FcUtoeIk137_g1ASWGgX_ezmDkwqh-wcBx8c2eclzKSQ&THUMB_WIDTH=128&THUMB_HEIGHT=78&start=)



Again or still in the news (thanks to San for sending this to me):

http://www.nydailynews.com/gossip/2008/08/19/2008-08-19_no_madgeic_touch_on_bail_for_paciello.html

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub4/Paciello.jpg)



There is Tommy Pooch...again...that lives in Florida...that claims he's in the casino with Joran...that knows a lot about gambling...and casinos...and most likely the mob...and such.  I'm just saying...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on August 19, 2008, 06:37:55 PM
Hello Everyone,

I just wanted all of you to know that I am OK.  For the past month or so, I have been involved with family needs and a bunch of other things.  I'm a little overwhelmed at this point.  I have no idea what has been happening in Aruba.  As soon as my life settles down a little, I will be back.  I have missed all of you.

SS


Hey there!  Glad you checked in.  Nothing is happening so you are not behind...we can get you caught up in Shango...now elsewhere may be another story.


Lalas,

I have done some real fast scans through the threads.  I was reading in one of them (maybe NH) that the Chamber lists have disappeared. A few months ago, Mum and I were doing some work with a current Chamber list.  They actually called it a tax list and it looks like only Aruban citizens registered to vote were included.  I downloaded the file.  It's in an XLS format which I can't open because I use Lotus for my spread sheets.  I'm not sure how big the file is and it's actually two files.  If Klaas can give us a place to put it, I can try to upload the file back to the SM system.  It won't give us information about 2005, but it will help us with anything current.  Did Chemaly or his Zedan cousins write in to say how much they missed me?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on August 19, 2008, 09:08:10 PM
I've been reading back through the thread in a frantic attempt to catch up before I am swept away again.  The discussions about Lorenzo are great and I learned something that now has my thoughts spinning.  I had always thought that Lorenzo's girlfriend was his alibi and she later retracted all or part of her story about being with him that night.  From the old posts from the Speedshop, they claimed that Max Arendz didn't know Lorenzo, yet the Speedshop guys were the ones that supplied the picture of Lorenzo in his obnoxious van.  Where did they get the picture if they didn't know him?  Now, I'm hearing that Max Arendz was an alibi for Lorenzo that night???  This would certainly fit Shango's report that the friends of the 5th were his alibi and they were with him all night.  This would explain Max's involvement in the case.  Is there anything to document that Natalee did have dinner with Lorenzo earlier in the week?  Is he the wild and crazy guy?  We have heard tidbits from lots of places saying that Urine was at Lorenzo's house early the next morning.  Could they have moved Natalee from the Matty Apts. to Lorenzo's house after the video party?  Is it possible that she was still alive at that point?  We have heard for a long time that a hair brush and other things belonging to Natalee were found at Lorenzo's.  If Paul Brough is a friend of Lorenzo, are these two the link to the video distribution in Miami?  Just some thoughts.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on August 19, 2008, 09:38:20 PM
after all the talk about a 5th suspect, Shango says "who else plays in the orchestra?"

the elder had one or two cards up his sleeve
they have been played and lost
will one of the cards sing?

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:42 pm
Arawaks hold singing card from babylon (DirtyHand)
There is also a trio. One Babylonian. 2 Shivas.
Arawaks can’t let babylonian Card sing because hand holding it dirty too.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:53 pm
DirtyHand is the key
He walks with the elders
He walks in all houses
And he walked with the fallen elder [released?]
he was the hidden card that was played   [DirtyHand]




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on August 19, 2008, 09:43:04 PM
SS:

about Urine:

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:48 pm
The boy told the Hindus that he didn’t need their help anymore. This was in the small hours.
The confrontation was brutal.  So who heeded his call? Who switched places?
People…the bloodied, swollen tongue. The boy’s fear runs deep.
They accuse him to be Bifrons.

Who switched places?  Somebody who would then definitely be able to break the alibi!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: finngirl on August 20, 2008, 03:18:42 AM
I've been reading back through the thread in a frantic attempt to catch up before I am swept away again.  The discussions about Lorenzo are great and I learned something that now has my thoughts spinning.  I had always thought that Lorenzo's girlfriend was his alibi and she later retracted all or part of her story about being with him that night.  From the old posts from the Speedshop, they claimed that Max Arendz didn't know Lorenzo, yet the Speedshop guys were the ones that supplied the picture of Lorenzo in his obnoxious van.  Where did they get the picture if they didn't know him?  Now, I'm hearing that Max Arendz was an alibi for Lorenzo that night???  This would certainly fit Shango's report that the friends of the 5th were his alibi and they were with him all night.  This would explain Max's involvement in the case.  Is there anything to document that Natalee did have dinner with Lorenzo earlier in the week?  Is he the wild and crazy guy?  We have heard tidbits from lots of places saying that Urine was at Lorenzo's house early the next morning.  Could they have moved Natalee from the Matty Apts. to Lorenzo's house after the video party?  Is it possible that she was still alive at that point?  We have heard for a long time that a hair brush and other things belonging to Natalee were found at Lorenzo's.  If Paul Brough is a friend of Lorenzo, are these two the link to the video distribution in Miami?  Just some thoughts.

hello! yes! thank you!

this always stood out to me
but never seemed to mean much to others

Andry Lopez/webmaster of the speed shop boostunit site
(and self-proclaimed best friend of Max/Maxito Arendsz)
was Peeps/the one who produced the photo.
actually, there were at least two posting as Peeps
so that's some extra effort there

re our attempts to find out what LvR looked like
Peeps said we'd never seen a photo of him/never would,
as LvR was not a club-type person.
and all of the early photos came from the clubs ...
or the tickle sites

then ... Peeps came off w/ the van photo,
saying this is the only photo of him you'll ever see:
LvR sitting in his van/parked on a side street,
looking into the camera ...
shadows of more persons than the one holding the camera
visible in the foreground

so WTF was all that about?

while tossing in: we've talked to the detectives in this case
to clear our names re this BS being floated at SM
_ _ _ _ _

also, there was more than one sandraK
and one of them just could not help herself ...
she was always itching to "tell" what she knew
and quite often got tangled up re her "knowledge"
while at the same time "accidentally" revealing something:
dumb like fox

[the reveal]
sandraK: Lorenzo's Dad had a VW Dealership.. He is dead.sadly..He runs with Max Arendsz & Orlando Bello. From the Aruba Speed Shop...A Kinda Strange Dude.. but harmless...  SM's think he has something to do with this.. Cops Been all over him.. He's not involved...

MisGivings: Is this the 'rave' guy? And, wasn't some of Natalee's clothing found in his basement?

sandraK: No clothes were found...!! Nothing

jozee: SandraK, So Lorenzo runs with the guys from the Speed Shop?? I thought Peeps said he only met him once??

sandraK: and ???

[oops/busted again]
jozee: ...and back at ya...if he met him once how does he run with them?

[uh ... play dumb before pitching a slider]
sandraK: I didn't know Peeps was Max Arendsz....I'm Sorry..  :oops:  :oops:

jozee: SandraK, I don't believe he is Max...if you are to believe what he says they are best friends...just do a search on Peeps posts and you can see for yourself. He came here after a bunch of Monkeys hit on the speed shop during research. I don't know if he posts anymore....

[the slider. re Peeps, w/ caps and a wink]
sandraK: WE  PM  :wink:
_ _ _ _ _

re anything concrete on NH dining/hanging w/ LvR:
next to nothing, except for
1. sim's cool/crazy guy in casino
2. the MB 302 which stated that NH talked w/ local guy
for about 30 minutes by the pool one day
3. the early june post in papi at the boostunit site forum:
"the (missing) girl that was holding hands w/ Lorenzo"

JvdS + Steve Croes + LvR + Maxito/Peeps + ? = shit storm



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on August 20, 2008, 06:10:15 AM
Well, let me try this again. LOL

I know that she gives her email out to AG or one of the Aruban posters in a comment on the FP.  OR it could be in the forum posts called Rumors of Breaking news.  Either way it's a lot to dig through.  I had it saved once, but can't find it now.

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2005/06/10/natalee-holloway-information-vii/

138.  NativeLingo on June 11th, 2005 1:53 am
CancunMole, Look for me in one of the Renaissance Mall Stores….
m_croesm@yahoo.com
Bon Bini to aruba;)

Btw…..where did everybody from tripadvisor go?

Mum, same link:

134. NativeLingo on June 11th, 2005 1:32 am
Gajin…your feelings are totally understandible……I’m an Aruban…..and a mother of 3 girls……




So what does the "M" stand for?  Margaret?  Marilyn?  Melissa?  Mildred? Michelle?  I could go on and on.  According to Mrs. Red it is not Marrianne.  I mean the Marrianne as in the OM office.

 ::MonkeyConfused::  I spent some time in the Chamber of Commerce search and had to take a break.....white pages has a load of M. Croes...not help.

http://arubayp.com/whitesearch.html?phone=&name=croes+m&page=1


Didn't find Nativelingo, but found this...Same address and is on the Fast Phone Services listing.

Charles Croes “young wife”?

Croes-Amaro Angulo, Iracema

Born in Cuba – August 14th 1978

http://www.arubachamber.com/registry/registry_search.afp

 
 2 matched records found:

The results corresponding to your searchrequest are listed below. Click on a companyname to open the company information page.
   
Trade name
Branch   
Dossier#
Establishment
FAST PHONE SERVICES- RENT YOUR PHONE   31202/000
FAST PHONE SERVICES-RENT YOUR PHONE N.V.   36375/000


For some reason I can’t copy the Registry info…It is the First one – effective 2006, if some-one would be kind enough to copy…for future reference!



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 20, 2008, 12:53:27 PM
I've been reading back through the thread in a frantic attempt to catch up before I am swept away again.  The discussions about Lorenzo are great and I learned something that now has my thoughts spinning.  I had always thought that Lorenzo's girlfriend was his alibi and she later retracted all or part of her story about being with him that night.  From the old posts from the Speedshop, they claimed that Max Arendz didn't know Lorenzo, yet the Speedshop guys were the ones that supplied the picture of Lorenzo in his obnoxious van.  Where did they get the picture if they didn't know him?  Now, I'm hearing that Max Arendz was an alibi for Lorenzo that night???  This would certainly fit Shango's report that the friends of the 5th were his alibi and they were with him all night.  This would explain Max's involvement in the case.  Is there anything to document that Natalee did have dinner with Lorenzo earlier in the week?  Is he the wild and crazy guy?  We have heard tidbits from lots of places saying that Urine was at Lorenzo's house early the next morning.  Could they have moved Natalee from the Matty Apts. to Lorenzo's house after the video party?  Is it possible that she was still alive at that point?  We have heard for a long time that a hair brush and other things belonging to Natalee were found at Lorenzo's.  If Paul Brough is a friend of Lorenzo, are these two the link to the video distribution in Miami?  Just some thoughts.

All good thoughts.  I do know that Paul Brough and Lorenzo were connected to that video distribution.  I can't remember where that info is...it is most likely buried in tons of NAH threads of yesteryear.  Most of the Lorenzo stuff is speculation after that.  The enigmatic poster Espionage alluded to some Lorenzo stuff.  It was only for the immediate time frame so don't get bogged down in his posts at this time.  Most think it was MIP6...I know different...don't ask me how.  Paul Brough was into the porn scene and it paints an intriguing picture to think of the possibilities and the underworld stuff but I really have never found substantial evidence to support it.  Not that I wouldn't like that....I would.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 20, 2008, 12:57:12 PM
I've been reading back through the thread in a frantic attempt to catch up before I am swept away again.  The discussions about Lorenzo are great and I learned something that now has my thoughts spinning.  I had always thought that Lorenzo's girlfriend was his alibi and she later retracted all or part of her story about being with him that night.  From the old posts from the Speedshop, they claimed that Max Arendz didn't know Lorenzo, yet the Speedshop guys were the ones that supplied the picture of Lorenzo in his obnoxious van.  Where did they get the picture if they didn't know him?  Now, I'm hearing that Max Arendz was an alibi for Lorenzo that night???  This would certainly fit Shango's report that the friends of the 5th were his alibi and they were with him all night.  This would explain Max's involvement in the case.  Is there anything to document that Natalee did have dinner with Lorenzo earlier in the week?  Is he the wild and crazy guy?  We have heard tidbits from lots of places saying that Urine was at Lorenzo's house early the next morning.  Could they have moved Natalee from the Matty Apts. to Lorenzo's house after the video party?  Is it possible that she was still alive at that point?  We have heard for a long time that a hair brush and other things belonging to Natalee were found at Lorenzo's.  If Paul Brough is a friend of Lorenzo, are these two the link to the video distribution in Miami?  Just some thoughts.

hello! yes! thank you!

this always stood out to me
but never seemed to mean much to others

Andry Lopez/webmaster of the speed shop boostunit site
(and self-proclaimed best friend of Max/Maxito Arendsz)
was Peeps/the one who produced the photo.
actually, there were at least two posting as Peeps
so that's some extra effort there

re our attempts to find out what LvR looked like
Peeps said we'd never seen a photo of him/never would,
as LvR was not a club-type person.
and all of the early photos came from the clubs ...
or the tickle sites

then ... Peeps came off w/ the van photo,
saying this is the only photo of him you'll ever see:
LvR sitting in his van/parked on a side street,
looking into the camera ...
shadows of more persons than the one holding the camera
visible in the foreground

so WTF was all that about?

while tossing in: we've talked to the detectives in this case
to clear our names re this BS being floated at SM
_ _ _ _ _

also, there was more than one sandraK
and one of them just could not help herself ...
she was always itching to "tell" what she knew
and quite often got tangled up re her "knowledge"
while at the same time "accidentally" revealing something:
dumb like fox

[the reveal]
sandraK: Lorenzo's Dad had a VW Dealership.. He is dead.sadly..He runs with Max Arendsz & Orlando Bello. From the Aruba Speed Shop...A Kinda Strange Dude.. but harmless...  SM's think he has something to do with this.. Cops Been all over him.. He's not involved...

MisGivings: Is this the 'rave' guy? And, wasn't some of Natalee's clothing found in his basement?

sandraK: No clothes were found...!! Nothing

jozee: SandraK, So Lorenzo runs with the guys from the Speed Shop?? I thought Peeps said he only met him once??

sandraK: and ???

[oops/busted again]
jozee: ...and back at ya...if he met him once how does he run with them?

[uh ... play dumb before pitching a slider]
sandraK: I didn't know Peeps was Max Arendsz....I'm Sorry..  :oops:  :oops:

jozee: SandraK, I don't believe he is Max...if you are to believe what he says they are best friends...just do a search on Peeps posts and you can see for yourself. He came here after a bunch of Monkeys hit on the speed shop during research. I don't know if he posts anymore....

[the slider. re Peeps, w/ caps and a wink]
sandraK: WE  PM  :wink:
_ _ _ _ _

re anything concrete on NH dining/hanging w/ LvR:
next to nothing, except for
1. sim's cool/crazy guy in casino
2. the MB 302 which stated that NH talked w/ local guy
for about 30 minutes by the pool one day
3. the early june post in papi at the boostunit site forum:
"the (missing) girl that was holding hands w/ Lorenzo"

JvdS + Steve Croes + LvR + Maxito/Peeps + ? = shit storm



And the other person that down played all this info and speculation was our dear Bondia/Glenda/Julia.  Does that make anyone go hmmmmm?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on August 20, 2008, 01:02:04 PM
Well, let me try this again. LOL

I know that she gives her email out to AG or one of the Aruban posters in a comment on the FP.  OR it could be in the forum posts called Rumors of Breaking news.  Either way it's a lot to dig through.  I had it saved once, but can't find it now.

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2005/06/10/natalee-holloway-information-vii/

138.  NativeLingo on June 11th, 2005 1:53 am
CancunMole, Look for me in one of the Renaissance Mall Stores….
m_croesm@yahoo.com
Bon Bini to aruba;)

Btw…..where did everybody from tripadvisor go?

Mum, same link:

134. NativeLingo on June 11th, 2005 1:32 am
Gajin…your feelings are totally understandible……I’m an Aruban…..and a mother of 3 girls……




So what does the "M" stand for?  Margaret?  Marilyn?  Melissa?  Mildred? Michelle?  I could go on and on.  According to Mrs. Red it is not Marrianne.  I mean the Marrianne as in the OM office.

 ::MonkeyConfused::  I spent some time in the Chamber of Commerce search and had to take a break.....white pages has a load of M. Croes...not help.

http://arubayp.com/whitesearch.html?phone=&name=croes+m&page=1


Didn't find Nativelingo, but found this...Same address and is on the Fast Phone Services listing.

Charles Croes “young wife”?

Croes-Amaro Angulo, Iracema

Born in Cuba – August 14th 1978

http://www.arubachamber.com/registry/registry_search.afp

 
 2 matched records found:

The results corresponding to your searchrequest are listed below. Click on a companyname to open the company information page.
   
Trade name
Branch   
Dossier#
Establishment
FAST PHONE SERVICES- RENT YOUR PHONE   31202/000
FAST PHONE SERVICES-RENT YOUR PHONE N.V.   36375/000


For some reason I can’t copy the Registry info…It is the First one – effective 2006, if some-one would be kind enough to copy…for future reference!



I wasn't able to copy the Registry info, either.  I did capture a screen print and put it on a word document.  I wanted to attach it, but realized (had forgotten) that it wasn't compatible with the forum....I'm sure someone will remind me of another method.  I'm just stymied, right now.  To top it off, I had typed a similar post and forgot to take the bad attachment out and caused an error.  Had to start all over, again.  ::MonkeyRoll::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on August 20, 2008, 11:15:37 PM
Lalas, Finngirl, and Colombo -

Thanks for jogging my memory and throwing in some other goodies.  If Julia says it doesn't matter, then to me it's of vital importance.  The Speedshop double talk is really in my head now.  Maybe we didn't pay much attention to this because of all the other information that was flying around all over the place.  If Eyebrows (Max) is a friend of Lorenzo, this might explain why he was questioned to begin with and then he provided the tight alibi.  If Lorenzo doesn't allow his picture to be taken, then how did they take it with him looking directly at the camera?  That picture was taken for our benefit.  If Freddy is also a friend of Lorenzo and both of them are into feature films, then it becomes even more plausible that they were all there for the event with the rest of the cast of Road Warriors.  If Natalee was injured from the confrontation or in bad shape from drugs or after the entire ordeal, it also becomes very possible that they moved her from Matty's to Lorenzo's fortress.  Her condition and the chit on her might have been too alarming to just dump her in front of the Holiday Inn, which seems to have been the fate of the twenty other American tourists.  Remember, they didn't build sandcastles, so I am not big on the beach.  Do we have any statements or descriptions of what was searched when ALE went through Lorenzo's home?  Does anyone still have a link to any of that information about finding the hair brush and the clothes?  We do have a picture somewhere of Armin playing his guitar in Lorenzo's basement, so Simian does have a direct knowledge of Lorenzo's party scene and Shango said something to him during their cat fight about walking in the maze himself.  To me, this Max/Lorenzo connection adds another possible dimension to the chain of events that night and it could fill in the gaps after the video party ended.  Does anyone know anything about a possible connection between Lorenzo and Chemaly or Ernesto?  Were Ernesto and Brough fencing the Freddy/Lorenzo/Julia videos in Miami?  The "powers" are definitely protecting Lorenzo which is really evident after his horticultural projects were discovered.  With this much protection, Lorenzo almost has to be a dirty hand.  Could it be that Urine and Paulass are protected because they are father and half-brother to Lorenzo, rather than because Paulass is a wanna-be judge?  Eyeborws went off to a community college in Florida, but from what I found, it looks like he didn't last long and he's back in Aruba now.  I visited him not too long ago.  He doesn't appear to run with Urine's old friends, so the connection to Lorenzo seems even more likely.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: texasmom on August 20, 2008, 11:41:16 PM
(http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn82/texasmom_55/Aruba%20Misc/FastPhoneServices.jpg)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: finngirl on August 21, 2008, 02:11:14 AM

SS: many good thoughts/questions in your post
but I'm pressed for time tonight, dammit

real quickly, just wanna make sure
that I'm reading something correctly:
wondering if your reference to Eyebrows =
Max Arends?

that particular Max was (is?) a friend of JvdS
and he was 20 years old in 2005 ...
he's the one who went to college in FL

the other Max/who allegedly provided LvR's alibi
is Maxito Arendsz/owner of the speed shop

he and Peeps were 26 years old in 2005
and they are the ones who ran w/ Lorenzo ...
whose age in 2005 was anywhere from 23-28
depending on who you believed among the posters back then

the names are nearly identical so it's easy to confuse them:
Max Arends
Max Arendsz/also goes by childhood nickname Maxito

someone/probably klaas must have a photo of the older Max.
he posted photos of himself/his racing buds on his tickle site
but I didn't save them to a photo account ...
and the old photo links don't work since tickle networking poofed

when you compare photos of the two Max(s)
it's obvious that one is a boy/Arends and one is a man/Arendsz
_ _ _ _ _

no official record re any search of Lorenzo's property ...
just what posters heard/saw via eiland media
plus gossip/rumor

some said his (cigarette) boat/house/vehicle
were gone over very thoroughly

there are copied posts in the race junkies thread
from around june 16/17 in 2005
where it sounds like eiland rumor is combining/confusing
Steve Croes and LvR:
saying that the latest/current person of interest
is the son of a prominent businessman

AFAIK it's never been established who Croes' father is,
which would seem easy enough if he's a prominent/wealthy man

whereas there were many posts saying that LvR
could afford his vida loca due to the proceeds he inherited
following his father's death ...
making it sound like HE was the son of a prominent man

I rec'd a PM that first summer/can't remember who the sender was
telling me that ALE wanted to search Lorenzo's mom's house
but that was denied
since her property was outside the scope of the investigation

sent that info to Dan in TX/he asked Peeps about it
and Peeps said: that's true ...
which was pretty much passed over/ignored

struck me as: Peeps says he doesn't know Lorenzo
but he knows about the denied search? hmmm
_ _ _ _ _

wish I had more time to respond/ask questions re your post



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on August 21, 2008, 05:05:31 AM
Hello Everyone,

I just wanted all of you to know that I am OK.  For the past month or so, I have been involved with family needs and a bunch of other things.  I'm a little overwhelmed at this point.  I have no idea what has been happening in Aruba.  As soon as my life settles down a little, I will be back.  I have missed all of you.

SS


Hey there!  Glad you checked in.  Nothing is happening so you are not behind...we can get you caught up in Shango...now elsewhere may be another story.


Lalas,

I have done some real fast scans through the threads.  I was reading in one of them (maybe NH) that the Chamber lists have disappeared. A few months ago, Mum and I were doing some work with a current Chamber list.  They actually called it a tax list and it looks like only Aruban citizens registered to vote were included.  I downloaded the file.  It's in an XLS format which I can't open because I use Lotus for my spread sheets.  I'm not sure how big the file is and it's actually two files.  If Klaas can give us a place to put it, I can try to upload the file back to the SM system.  It won't give us information about 2005, but it will help us with anything current.  Did Chemaly or his Zedan cousins write in to say how much they missed me?

 ::MonkeyHaHa::

Have something on this that I found last week...will get it all together, if I can find it LOL and see if you can make heads of tails of it...



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on August 21, 2008, 05:12:40 AM
Ernesto Arambatzis

Nicola Siervo wants an affluent, New York style party populated by models, photographers and other members of the modeling industry for his Monday and Friday night parties at the Metro Kitchen and Bar in the Astor. Who do you hire to promote the party? Answer: someone who has experience in both the nightlife and production arenas: Ernesto Arambatzis.

Ernesto started his career under the wings of Chris Paciello, Ingrid Casareas, and Gerry Kelly, working as the “fashion director” for Bar Room and Shadow Lounge. Then he took a break and became a men’s model booker for Ford Model’s “new faces” section. 

Well, break’s over. Besides the Monday and Friday gig at Metro, he also promotes the already popular Sky Bar at the Shore Club on Saturdays and the newly opened restro-lounge Sabor on Thursdays. He also plans to promote the Pure Lounge above Joia—once its completed that is.

“I love the whole restaurant and lounge thing,” he says. “I have free dinners almost every night.”
http://www.miamisunpost.com/archives/2003/01-23-03/firststoryfrontpage.htm

********************

Unmade Man
Chris Paciello owned two of Miami's hottest clubs and hung out with Ingrid Casares, Jennifer Lopez, and Madonna. A murder charge scattered his A-list pals -- but his gangster vibe is part of what drew them in the first place.

By Robert Kolker & Ethan Brown Published Apr 10, 2000

<snipped>

On December 1, as the culmination of an organized-crime investigation that stretched back at least to 1997, Chris Paciello surrendered to a U.S. Marshal a week after being indicted for a 1993 murder in Staten Island. Since then, prosecutors have claimed in court -- but not yet formally charged -- that Paciello burned down his first Miami club for the insurance money, permitted drug-dealing at Liquid, and tried to intimidate and sabotage three of his competitors. (New York has also learned that he still employs Robert Gordon, described during Limelight owner Peter Gatien's drug trial as a major ecstasy dealer in the early nineties.)

Federal prosecutor James Walden has said in court that a Florida Department of Law Enforcement investigation into the clubs' finances revealed circumstantial evidence of money laundering -- reported profits that are grossly out of proportion with inventory purchases. And though Paciello told a friend last fall that the rumors about his mob connections were spread by people who were "f***ing jealous," his co-defendants in the indictment are all accused of having connections to the Bonanno crime family. The road to trial promises to be bumpy: Just last week, Walden revealed that security guards found marijuana and a partially empty box of .40 caliber bullets hidden in the Staten Island house where Paciello is, by court order, supposed to be monitored 24 hours a day.
http://nymag.com/nymetro/news/crimelaw/features/2758/

********************

Goon Over Miami, Part 3
If Chris Paciello returns to South Beach, he'll find his empire in shambles and local cops hungry to arrest him


By Tristram Korten
Published on March 30, 2000

Article mentions marketing manager Troy Parsons.
http://www.miaminewtimes.com/2000-03-30/news/goon-over-miami-part-3

********************

Ocean DriveMagazine
In association with Gerry Kelly and Noah Lazes Presents:
ELEVATE
The New Wednesday Night@Vivid
Hosted by Troy Parsons & Ernesto Arambatzis
Wednesday June 7th 2000 10PM
Complimentary Bar 10-11pm
RSVP For Complimentary <A HREF="http://www.clubplanet.com/guestlists/" TARGET="_blank">Guest List</A> 305.695.9299
Vivid
743 Washington Avenue
Miami Beach, FL 33139
VIP Table Reservations 305.695.9033 www.vividnightclub.com
http://bbs.clubplanet.com/miami/3252-vivid-nightclub.html


Bar Room Owner Stays Behind Bars
http://www.ganglandnews.com/column157.htm

Club Owner Pleads Guilty in Mob Murder Case
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9806E5DF133FF937A25753C1A9669C8B63

http://blogs.herald.com/scene_in_the_tropics/miami_vice/index.html

Ingrid Casares partner of Chris Paciello.



Three’s Company

Three South Beach Industry Veterans Team Up to Form Company

“Everyone is hitting on us and we love it.” – Tommy Pooch

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a398/vms58/IngridCasares.jpg)
Alan Roth, Ingrid Casares and Tommy Pooch meld their South Beach promoting talents to form TAI. Photo by Mitchell Zachs.

Link (http://www.mamma.com/PicInfo?query=TOMMY+POOCH&qtype=48&PAGE_URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.miamisunpost.com%2Farchives%2F2004%2F10-07-04%2Fthirteenthstoryfrontpage.htm&IMAGE_URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.miamisunpost.com%2Farchives%2F2004%2F10-07-04%2FIMAGE%2Fmain6.jpg&WIDTH=200&HEIGHT=123&FILESIZE=24&COLORS=15984&ANIM=0&COLOR=1&THUMB_URL=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.picsearch.com%2Fis%3FcUtoeIk137_g1ASWGgX_ezmDkwqh-wcBx8c2eclzKSQ&THUMB_WIDTH=128&THUMB_HEIGHT=78&start=)



Again or still in the news (thanks to San for sending this to me):

http://www.nydailynews.com/gossip/2008/08/19/2008-08-19_no_madgeic_touch_on_bail_for_paciello.html

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub4/Paciello.jpg)



There is Tommy Pooch...again...that lives in Florida...that claims he's in the casino with Joran...that knows a lot about gambling...and casinos...and most likely the mob...and such.  I'm just saying...


Scrolling past the pic of Chris and he reminds me of the sketch of the suspect on the beach, the one everyone thinks looks like Jerry Strawberry... ::MonkeyEek::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on August 21, 2008, 05:47:40 AM
Lalas, Finngirl, and Colombo -

Thanks for jogging my memory and throwing in some other goodies.  If Julia says it doesn't matter, then to me it's of vital importance.  The Speedshop double talk is really in my head now.  Maybe we didn't pay much attention to this because of all the other information that was flying around all over the place.  If Eyebrows (Max) is a friend of Lorenzo, this might explain why he was questioned to begin with and then he provided the tight alibi.  If Lorenzo doesn't allow his picture to be taken, then how did they take it with him looking directly at the camera?  That picture was taken for our benefit.  If Freddy is also a friend of Lorenzo and both of them are into feature films, then it becomes even more plausible that they were all there for the event with the rest of the cast of Road Warriors.  If Natalee was injured from the confrontation or in bad shape from drugs or after the entire ordeal, it also becomes very possible that they moved her from Matty's to Lorenzo's fortress.  Her condition and the chit on her might have been too alarming to just dump her in front of the Holiday Inn, which seems to have been the fate of the twenty other American tourists.  Remember, they didn't build sandcastles, so I am not big on the beach.  Do we have any statements or descriptions of what was searched when ALE went through Lorenzo's home?  Does anyone still have a link to any of that information about finding the hair brush and the clothes?  We do have a picture somewhere of Armin playing his guitar in Lorenzo's basement, so Simian does have a direct knowledge of Lorenzo's party scene and Shango said something to him during their cat fight about walking in the maze himself.   To me, this Max/Lorenzo connection adds another possible dimension to the chain of events that night and it could fill in the gaps after the video party ended.  Does anyone know anything about a possible connection between Lorenzo and Chemaly or Ernesto?  Were Ernesto and Brough fencing the Freddy/Lorenzo/Julia videos in Miami?  The "powers" are definitely protecting Lorenzo which is really evident after his horticultural projects were discovered.  With this much protection, Lorenzo almost has to be a dirty hand.  Could it be that Urine and Paulass are protected because they are father and half-brother to Lorenzo, rather than because Paulass is a wanna-be judge?  Eyeborws went off to a community college in Florida, but from what I found, it looks like he didn't last long and he's back in Aruba now.  I visited him not too long ago.  He doesn't appear to run with Urine's old friends, so the connection to Lorenzo seems even more likely.


Lorenzo’s party pic…We really don't know if this is our Lorenzo...

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2787.500



   Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #3 « Reply #519 on: April 21, 2008, 10:32:24 PM »


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on August 21, 2008, 05:52:29 AM
Texasmom...Thanks for posting the info on Charle's wife...For some reason I can't copy Chamber info, I highlight and then when I try to copy it disappears...and for some reason my computer won't let me copy pics...I have followed Klaas' instructions over and over and it is a no go???

Heck, I don't want a new computer.... ::MonkeyWaa::



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on August 21, 2008, 06:22:06 AM
Lorenzo and the Race Junkies thread....

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1291.0



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 21, 2008, 10:16:10 AM
Lalas, Finngirl, and Colombo -

Thanks for jogging my memory and throwing in some other goodies.  If Julia says it doesn't matter, then to me it's of vital importance.  The Speedshop double talk is really in my head now.  Maybe we didn't pay much attention to this because of all the other information that was flying around all over the place.  If Eyebrows (Max) is a friend of Lorenzo, this might explain why he was questioned to begin with and then he provided the tight alibi.  If Lorenzo doesn't allow his picture to be taken, then how did they take it with him looking directly at the camera?  That picture was taken for our benefit.  If Freddy is also a friend of Lorenzo and both of them are into feature films, then it becomes even more plausible that they were all there for the event with the rest of the cast of Road Warriors.  If Natalee was injured from the confrontation or in bad shape from drugs or after the entire ordeal, it also becomes very possible that they moved her from Matty's to Lorenzo's fortress.  Her condition and the chit on her might have been too alarming to just dump her in front of the Holiday Inn, which seems to have been the fate of the twenty other American tourists.  Remember, they didn't build sandcastles, so I am not big on the beach.  Do we have any statements or descriptions of what was searched when ALE went through Lorenzo's home?  Does anyone still have a link to any of that information about finding the hair brush and the clothes?  We do have a picture somewhere of Armin playing his guitar in Lorenzo's basement, so Simian does have a direct knowledge of Lorenzo's party scene and Shango said something to him during their cat fight about walking in the maze himself.  To me, this Max/Lorenzo connection adds another possible dimension to the chain of events that night and it could fill in the gaps after the video party ended.  Does anyone know anything about a possible connection between Lorenzo and Chemaly or Ernesto?  Were Ernesto and Brough fencing the Freddy/Lorenzo/Julia videos in Miami?  The "powers" are definitely protecting Lorenzo which is really evident after his horticultural projects were discovered.  With this much protection, Lorenzo almost has to be a dirty hand.  Could it be that Urine and Paulass are protected because they are father and half-brother to Lorenzo, rather than because Paulass is a wanna-be judge?  Eyeborws went off to a community college in Florida, but from what I found, it looks like he didn't last long and he's back in Aruba now.  I visited him not too long ago.  He doesn't appear to run with Urine's old friends, so the connection to Lorenzo seems even more likely.

Your thoughts have been mine also for years now...unfortunately your theory means Lorenzo is the 5th suspect...with the tight alibi. LOL  That throws  kinks in all the other possibilities. LOL   It would be nice to know if Eyebrows was a friend of Gabe Leo.  Just exactly where did Max live in Florida?  Do you know?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 21, 2008, 10:18:00 AM
(http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn82/texasmom_55/Aruba%20Misc/FastPhoneServices.jpg)

Hey Mum!
Did you notice the address location?  Yep, that's interesting, isn't it? Hmmmmmm!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 21, 2008, 10:23:32 AM
Mum
I am sending you some info via email...just saying to make sure you get it in case my internet goes off again.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on August 21, 2008, 10:30:01 AM
Yep...Lala's...I did!

Found this the other day and I am not sure if Caps is confusing Steve and Charles here...LOL...Surprise!!!

I meant to go back and find the info from when we were talking about Armin as I think there mnay be an address back there for Rufo???? That might help if Steve did live next door to Rufo.

Will see if I can find it, as soon as I finishing emailing myself all the info that a very clever Monkey had saved and was sent to me....



http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1952.2620

 


Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
« Reply #2620 on: February 25, 2008, 02:18:56 PM » Caps

 

Yes, it only state a bussiness to a person.. if the Bussiness is closed, the database show it up as a non-active bussiness.

if the bussiness move, the address also is change. but I see several names that do not have a bussiness no more in the database......

the GDI is a new database of where every house is listed and the current address of a person is and so can locate the house.

in the case of Steve Croes, THe address he mention is where his Telepone calling businesss is register is Shiribana 3-I

In GDI when search, do not exist but the map show the house.

The map Show all the house location but the Shi3-I is not in the database....strange....but it does exist in real life. but you can not SQL it.

This make me believe that the land/house on the MAP is not link to anyone. all other land/house location is link to an Address. exept this one. it was the SHI-3I that cought my attention.

Strange.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 21, 2008, 10:35:31 AM
Thanks Mum, I knew you would recognize that address...it becomes even more interesting each day, doesn't it.  I am sure Caps knew who lived or worked at that address...but I can't say why just now.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on August 21, 2008, 12:21:34 PM
Thanks Mum, I knew you would recognize that address...it becomes even more interesting each day, doesn't it.  I am sure Caps knew who lived or worked at that address...but I can't say why just now.



Found this…I am again not sure what Caps was trying to say…and I have no idea where this address is, but it doesn’t appear to me to be next door to the Shiribani 3-I, so Caps must have meant Charles in that other post….Maybe… ::MonkeyHaHa::

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2787.660

Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #3 « Reply #662 on: April 23, 2008, 01:11:35 AM »   
 
Quote from: CapsLockWizard on April 23, 2008, 01:09:12 AM
Guess what Monkey

Solognier   Rachelle JM               4/26/1982   Aruba   Macuarina 165
Solognier   Rafael R                              7/8/1943   Aruba   Macuarina 165
Solognier   Rodney R                            4/18/1970   Curacao   Macuarina 165
Solognier   Ruzette JM                1/23/1978   Aruba   Macuarina 165
Solognier, geb. Croes   Rose M   3/27/1945   Aruba   Macuarina 165

These are the the people that live at the adresss above.

Well from the Obit, Rufo is married to Rose Mary which is Solognier Rafael R. they have been born in the same year.

the one from Curacao must be the the father if her mother is from Curacao. I can be wrong.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 21, 2008, 01:42:31 PM
Let's say Caps did have the name incorrect...innocent mistake with all the Croes running around on Aruba...how does that change all the other things we have concluded from that post?  Does it even make a difference other than the address is wrong?  Did we ever know the real address of Steve Croes? 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on August 21, 2008, 02:18:14 PM




http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1952.2620

 


Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
« Reply #2620 on: February 25, 2008, 02:18:56 PM » Caps

 

Yes, it only state a bussiness to a person.. if the Bussiness is closed, the database show it up as a non-active bussiness.

if the bussiness move, the address also is change. but I see several names that do not have a bussiness no more in the database......

the GDI is a new database of where every house is listed and the current address of a person is and so can locate the house.

in the case of Steve Croes, THe address he mention is where his Telepone calling businesss is register is Shiribana 3-I

In GDI when search, do not exist but the map show the house.

The map Show all the house location but the Shi3-I is not in the database....strange....but it does exist in real life. but you can not SQL it.

This make me believe that the land/house on the MAP is not link to anyone. all other land/house location is link to an Address. exept this one. it was the SHI-3I that cought my attention.

Strange.



OK...here is the post...I think he means Charles, and I haven't been able to find an address for Steve, unless he lives next to Rufo.

I think he says Charles is not in the new database, GDI? Well maybe he is in the map part. ::MonkeyHaHa::

Not sure why the Shiribana 3-I caught his attention... ::MonkeyConfused::


I swear I am going to start a thread..."Caps-What did he mean?" ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 21, 2008, 03:36:22 PM
I seem to remember Steve Croes' address posted somewhere.  So if he doesn't live where Caps said, then where does he live?  I think he meant CC as well.  But...would this address not be a business and does everyone on Aruba run a business from their home or what? 

I would love to see a layout of this place Shiribana.  I am wondering how the houses line up on the street.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on August 21, 2008, 06:34:31 PM
Finngirl - thanks for the clarification between Eyebrows and Max Arendzs.  Eyebrows is the one who went to Florida and was Urine's friend.  I do remember that confusion now.  I think there was confusion with their fathers in the Lion's Club Roster, too.

We have never been able to determine who the father of Steve Croes is.  CAPS was convinced that it was Hendrick, brother of Betico and Rudy.  There's even confusion about whether Rudy is Betico's brother.  At one point, CAPS did produce something from that central registry.  It listed Steve and his parents as coming from Curacao.  The father was listed as Hendrick, but that doesn't mean that he is "the Hendrick".  Steve did live next door to Rufo.  He was living with his grandmother who is also the mother of Steve's aunt -Rufo's wife.  I don't think that Steve had his own house in 2005.  If I recall, Rufo did an interview when Steve was being questioned by ALE and he was claiming that his nephew next door was a nice quiet guy with a young son.  Not long ago, I visited Steve.  His son is a little older now and there were pictures of Steve, the kid, and Steve's new girlfriend.

I don't think that I recall seeing a picture of the Max Arendzs who is Lorenzo's friend.  Does anyone have one?  Our friend also told us that Rufo is the retired Police Chief and that he was given the assignment of cleaning up the Matty Apartments the next day to get rid of all of the evidence.  I always felt that this was probably where Armin got his Simian information.

Has anyone heard anything from CAPS?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on August 21, 2008, 06:43:04 PM
Would Steve's address be on the statement he gave to ALE?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on August 21, 2008, 06:47:39 PM
Hi SS...You want me to try and find ALL that stuff...LOL

Somewhere there is definite documentation that Betico, Hendrick and Rudy are brothers. Not even sure if it was posted in Shango, but it was posted by either vms or Pita, I think and we finally got that straight. Their father and all the siblings were listed. Will look and see if I saved it. (Think I would have learnt by now!)

Hmmm...I got confused as to who Steve was supposed to be living with...his grandma. So I think that would be Rufo's MIL...a Croes.

Also don't remember the Matty Apartments and Rufo...sure I will run into it as I have been going over the old threads a lot lately.

Will check in the Important Documents for a pic of Max...not sure if there was one in the Race Junkies...Pretty sure some clever pic Monkey will have one for you.

No Caps...He hasn't been visiting us in Shango, but he hasn't been here for a few weeks now.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on August 21, 2008, 07:32:19 PM
SS...found some reading for you...LOL...At the bottom are the last 2 times Caps was here and I don't think you were, and the first one you were here.

I recall Pics of both Maxes and their Dads being posted in NAH, pretty sure Pita posted some, so I am hoping she can help you with Max Arendz pic.

Well here Caps is saying that they are not brothers but I think he has always said that…Also says that Hendrick is running the show…

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2989.msg396543#msg396543

785 on: July 06, 2008, 12:57:24 AM » Caps   
 
Quote from: klaasend on July 06, 2008, 12:28:54 AM
Capslock - Let me ask your personal opinion.  Could Karen Janssen and Jan van der Straten have wanted to do the RIGHT thing but could they have been stopped by Deutekom?  Were their hands tied by Deutekom?

KAren and van der Straten wanted the case to come out, but Deutekom had them already under his control....in the OM notting get done without the aproval of duetekom...He is the one that tells Mariam what to say and when to say it.

and then there is Rudy Croes which is the minister of Justice, has the title but no power...he is like Hans Mos. The power is in Hendrick Croes who is the brother of Betico Croes which is the uncle of Rudy Croes.

Hendrick Croes is the back-office (where things are beeing run from) but with no title. In the last election, Rudy croes could not be Minister of Justice and so they made a deal where he will be the front (Puppy say all guy) and Hendrick the real Minster Of Justice. in the eyes of the true MEPS party supportes, they believe that Rudy is running the show but he is not).

Teresa was placed there by Hendrick Croes and so was Marian. both hands where tied down since this guy Duetekom was send protect the blunders that Rudy Croes was commiting... This guy hands are in all the mayor organisation including the UN.

For the case in 2004 we Read what he presented to the court and it was all a fabrication based on what he knows about you.
e.g. if you are an expert in some thing, he will use that knowlage to potraay that since you know about something, that means that the possibility is that you have done it. (So how can you proed that you can not have done it).

In the case of Natalee, Joran boost but he did not do it, but since he boost, he wanted the game to continue and so they stoped him right in there. He will not boost any more.

If I had to call some one to question, I will start with Duetekom and Rudy Croes and the prime Minster and Hendrick Croes.
Steve Garido Croes Jr.



I think Caps made one more post about Steve Croes, not sure though, after this…

I think this was Caps first post on this page SS, and the post I copied is at the second link., may skip a page here and there.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=3077.100


http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=3077.140


« Reply #151 on: July 17, 2008, 06:36:51 PM »   Caps
 
Steve G. Croes is the son off who?

1. Hendrick Croes
2. Rudy Croes
3. Mitch Croes

Select the right candidate and be part of the friends and Famaly Group

Now for DirtyHand,

worked on the Permiso Gate,
worked on the Driver License Gate,
worked on the Minister Ramon Lee Sexual/rape Gate
worked on the Joran V/D Sloot Gate
Worked on the Hendrick Hit and Run Gate

all are MEP Government related case.

CAPS


SS…This is the last time Caps was here…Think it covered quite a few pages...First post

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=3128.msg402661#msg402661


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Pita on August 21, 2008, 11:12:05 PM
Lorenzo's friend, Maxito (Max) Arendsz (on the right.)

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/Max.jpg)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: finngirl on August 22, 2008, 04:08:49 AM

SS: your memory is the same as mine ...
re Steve/his son living w/ Steve's grandparents
next door to Tio Rufo/his wife

a thought re the address registry
and how accurate it really is/was:
someone could be registered at one place
but living somewhere else either long/short term,
yes?

people/families/couples disagree/argue ...
or their finances take a dive ...
and they stay at someone's place for awhile
or someone moves in to share expenses/etc
until the situation improves

any idea re how often the registry is updated
and what's required from individuals
in terms of reporting changes?

what kinda registry is it, anyway?

I'm familiar w/ sex offender registries
but have never come across something like this
where the gov't keeps track of who lives where
and how could they possibly update it often enough
to keep it accurate?
_ _ _ _ _

Pita: thanks for the photo of Maxito

at first glance he doesn't look familiar ...
I don't remember his hair being that dark/that straight
but it's been quite awhile
and I've not seen that particular photo before

the ones I recall he was leaning against the fender of his ride
and in group shots w/ his racing team/buds

but thank you for finding that one
_ _ _ _ _

I'm gonna be gone for about 10 days ...
no doubt all kinda stuff will break while I'm away!

keep up the good work/laters



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Pita on August 22, 2008, 05:31:28 AM
Finngirl, here's another of Maxito Arendsz (far right.)  Andry Lopez (Peeps) to the left of him.

(http://i32.tinypic.com/2qimsnl.jpg)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on August 22, 2008, 05:56:56 AM
Thanks Pita...Finngirl...you are going to have a lot of catching up to do...

From the Race Junkies thread....not sure of the post dates of the first ones, but some of Peeps posts have a familiar ring to them  ::MonkeyEek::

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1291.20


 Lorenzo - June 2005 information and RaceJunkies posts
« Reply #34 on: July 19, 2007, 06:08:53 AM » Quote 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts begin: (from SM)
 
Peeps: I am the owner of Boost Unit website and the webmaster of the speedshop. I don't know what your deal is with us or anything. We don't have nor want anything to do with some stupid teens, americans, dutch, surinam or any nationality whatsoever involved with this annoying case. We don't know that teen Joran nor his 3 chocolate factory buddies. They are not of our age bracket. We are some motorsports fans and that's all there is to it.

I request you to put your detective wannabee skills into something more productive. I am just helping you out here that you'll heading towards a dead end. Just trying to save you some time. Regards to everyone

omega: Hiya, Peeps! Welcome to the Scared Monkeys, Natalee Holloway THEORY & SPECULATION FORUM. I've often wondered why so few webmasters ever seem to notice when dozens of hits unexpected come to their websites from unexpected places. Hope you enjoy your visit here, I suppose you're right and that "The Butler Did It!!" will soon be proven. Can you please tell me to whom you refer when you wrote, "...Joran and his three chocolate factory buddies." Who are these 3 individuals? Thanks so much.

Peeps: knew about this site from the newspapers, plus its name is pretty "catchy". I got my monthly referrals report today (Aug 1) and what do I see? More than 50 referrals from the famous NH connected "scared monkeys". The purpose of this particular speculation forum is all good. I just don't want our names stickied on the internet,especially something that we have no part in. This is not the first time that somebody wants to connect us with the fatass dutchy. I did a typo, I meant 2 chocolate buddies.

karen: hi, peeps! no disrespect intended! just posting the trail that led to maxito, as we've been told he is lorenzo's, aka locoman's, alibi. could you share a little re lorenzo, just so we have everyone straight? maybe you can help us, & we can help you? thx!

Peeps: Maxito is one of my best friends. We go everywhere together. This rumor also spread on the street. Frankly we were pretty scared about this false accusation. Long story short, the detectives already know about this and have straightened out this false rumor. He doesn't know this guy Lorenzo. Locoman came once with his mom to the shop to get some quotations for parts for his Quad racer. that's it. We don't know locoman nor his following. Also we don't want to know anything about him. We stick to our motto "minding our own business."

omega: Thanks for the clarification, Peeps. I take it that, on Aruba, that perhaps Joran doesn't really have a large number of friends, that maybe the social/personals websites are exagerrating the popularity of, as you state, the fatass dutchy & his two chocolate factory buddies. Say, OUR BlogMaster, Red, is on your island, he's there with Texas Equusearch -- why dontcha track him down at the landfill, and have him interview ya?

Ms DarthVada: I thought he meant 3, meaning deepak, satish and freddy. haha

karen: thank you, peeps! just to be sure..we are talking about the maxito arendsz, who is in his 20's? i know there is also a max arends, could that be the one they meant? i REALLY appreciate you taking the time to answer.

Peeps: He's 26. The same as me. He's the same person. Maxito = Little Max in papiamento. A childhood name that got stuck till now. I just notified one of the detectives again about this piece, just in case some false accusations come up. Just taking precautions. If there are more questions I can answer them as far as I can. You can put a separate thread or something or email.

Peeps: I wouldn't know if Joran has a lot of friends or not. You have to take personal sites like Tickle, Hi5, Myspace with a tiny grain of salt. Everyone on that site are the best friends, the kindest people, the best personalities, the biggest pimps, the sharpest girls, a whole lotta hoopla. It's a big game of distraction and illusions.

new girl: Peeps, because you have been so kind in responding to questions here, I have deleted the post I had made that included Karen's links to your site. I have left up only 1 name - the Carib crew out of Florida.

Peeps: Thank you newgirl, I appreciate the cooperation. There's a lot to read on this site, I am busy doing that.

karen: hey peeps! do you know if locoman is known to hang out at casinos? also, is it true his dad committed suicide a coupla yrs ago?

Peeps: His dad owned the Volkswagen dealership here. He killed himself a couple of years ago, that's correct. The dealership is still there, but I don't know if they still have it or whatnot. locoman has a lot of money, but rumors have it that he's misusing the money. I think he doesn't even has to work for the rest of his life. locoman has 2 houses, and I got to know that he used to throw some heavy parties at his homes. That's how much I know. I have no clue if he frequents the casinos / hotels.

new girl: Peeps, is Lorenzo a different guy than locoman? Up until now, everyone said that Lorenzo was the son of the VW businessman who committed suicide and who has two houses and inherited $$.

Peeps: I thought Lorenzo = locoman from previous post. Excuse me if I had understood wrong. So basically it's just old news to you guys.

jozee: I thought Lorenzo and locoman were two different people. Lorenzo is someone who we don't have a pic of, although several people think it's the guy with the blonde dredlocks. Locoman is a dark island-looking person? Am I wrong? I'd like to know who is Alexxx the ax guy! And why does he carry around an ax?

Peeps: Ok. Locoman, no clue who he is. Lorenzo, saw him once. He's a tall Dutch looking fellow. You guys know more about him than me I see. You only need a pic of him.

I hear Shango: If Peeps is from aruba, and goes "everywhere" with Maxito...perhaps Peeps will tell us how the party was that night.

Peeps: We don't go to tourist places. As a matter of fact we haven't been to Carlos and Charlies this year even. We are over that type of party stage. You're beginning to sound like the dumb blonde Nancy Disgrace, simma downa.

I hear Shango: I didn't ask if you went to tourist places..I asked about the party...and before you call me dumb....you should think twice...I have just proven myself smarter than the entire LE....and many others in Aruba.

Peeps: Ok, Another smart comment in there but whatever floats your party boat is fine with me. Dunno what party, like all other questions you've asked me: Not Applicable. Another FYI, the Mansurs are one of the wealthiest families on the island, and also with many business related stories as you will find out sooner or later in your quest. Go fetch.

Peeps: Grasshopper sees the tip of the Iceberg and thinks deeply........"I think that's the whole Iceberg". Ok, enough busting I hear shango's balls. I really don't think the Mansur will connect you to NH case. They have extensive shady practices but I don't foresee any connection. Karen, you see what I mean. I am a native. I know as many other islanders about the M's. Alot of which are not on the web. Now I get an internet worm who just found last week what Aruba is, telling me he/she has everything. We are laughing so hard at this that we are having headaches.

karen: i hear ya, peeps, i get the headaches, too! won't you pleez tell us some lorenzo stories??

rockyroads: oh magic crystal ball - i see some arrests

I hear Shango: Peeps...I see the whole iceberg...better run....unless you are a VERY good swimmer...

Peeps: I hear Shango, My applogies to you for being rude. Sometimes it's needed to get the point across, and it's my favourite tool. No hard feelings.

rockyroads: hey peeps, are you a poker player? at the casinos much? i'm sorry to ask so many questions man i am just happy to talk to someone from the real island

Peeps: Yes I am a poker player. We play at home pretty much. We try to get out of the casinos as much as possible. There are quite a few stories about locals losing tons of money in casinos. From time to time we go casino sight seeing if you will call it and also the $50- $100.000 big Bingos at La Cabana and Renaissance Casino. Any more questions feel free, I will try to answer them. As for the smart a$$ comments, I'll try to give them the stick.

2 days later, discussion begins w/ TES/turtle eggs

Peeps: These turtles are endangered worldwide, and have been laying eggs at the eagle beach more than anyone can remember. From the eggs less than 1% will be able to be a grown up turtle. Do you see why your comparisson to a couple of dogs on the street make you look as dumb as a crumbled brick now. Get your a$$ over here and look instead of cooking your fat asses on that computer screen, looking at pix the whole day and making childlike judgements. I am done venting.

rockyroads: Peeps, get your fat a$$ out and help find Natalee and then we will go home!! Your turtle eggs do not compare to a human beings life. by the way it is your own dutch government that gave them permission to search there and let them come back to the island . sorry if i am privledged and i can sit on my fat a$$ all day on the computer thats way i live in america

Peeps: LOL. I don't have any responsibility in that, thank you. Swing and a miss.

rockyroads: Its ok if i swing and miss because the big hit is going to be to the islands pocket book

Dallas Also: Peeps, we are only speculating because we can't get straight answers from your citizenry. Someone tells us they saw a body in the landfill. We dig up the landfill. No body. We hear lighthouse. We go look around the lighthouse. We hear Holiday Inn. We go look. We hear Fisherman's Huts. We drain a pond. We look. We chase our tails. Has Natalee been seen on your island since the night of her disappearance? If she went to a party, who else saw her?

Peeps: Dallas, perfectly understood. I understand the tail chasing, but that's what you do if you want to get things solved, you look at everything, the minute they come before you. It's not like in the movies, or CSI Miami, where everything goes perfectly in sequence. I mean these detectives are not like they are un-trained. They frequently go to courses in Europe and even the FBI. Plus they have support from the FBI team. Your right that lots of mistakes were made by lack of training and knowledge of procedures., but we've got to strive forward. I was also one of the thousands who burned my butt in the sun, searching the beaches for NH. Losing my precious weekend time with my family and go searching for this girl.

Oxygenated Lady: Peeps - why are you so angry??

Peeps: Some people on this forum are sooooooooooo friggin Ignorant, it's unbelievable. It's like they don't know anything around the world. They have no clue about why certain things go the way they go over here and don't want to understand either. That's the main problem on this forum. Guys that's the way we do it over here. It's a different law system, understand it. Don't rebel against, accept it. I wonder if it's this type of arrogance and ignorance that so hated about some americans in the world. Expand your mind with real things instead of reading Shango BS that goes nowhere.

new girl: I understand your frustration, Peeps. But our frustration isn't much different than yours. We know we have no clue why things have gone the way they have over there. We are begging to understand.

eleye: let me tell you why...because a criminal element is present and puts big money into their economy...exposing that means ruining that island and that's why the aruban people are mad, scared or indifferent. this case exposes the belly of the beast and they are getting nervous that an island that runs on tourism and crime, will crumble.

Peeps: You are 15 years late. You know who the belly were?
Marlboro Company
Citi Bank
ABN AMRO Bank
Hotel Chains.
American / European bank
Mr. Pablo Escobar.
There were even some White Citations with bald eagle encriptions on them. Who can that be. Everybody gained from the small washing machine with white beaches. There is a reason why I tell you why there won't be any embargoes or economic restrictions.

I hear Shango: IMO the main trade that brings money to that island wouldn't be subject to sanctions or embargos....cause its illegal stuff and it is still there in full force.

I hear Shango: I try to expand my mind....but no one in Aruba will open up and tell us anything of use relative to this case....since you are so open and knowledgeable about the wildlife and other stuff there, would you be willing to give Beth a tour of the island? You know, show her where the underground begins? Show her the brothels and drug houses and where the private parties are held....show her where Natalee was REALLY taken that night....

Peeps: Willing to help, sure. But not with these unbased nonsense such as these. It's my nature to ignore these stupidities. No offense. Instead of playing in the casino with a baseball hat every night, she could have gone to the brothels. and see for herself. Or if she went, she can tell you what she saw. Private parties, well newsflash, they are private.

I hear Shango: Peeps....I will let Beth know you are on board for a tour... as for Beth at the casino....I assume you have been there and seen her every night? Did you ever stop to think that she may be in the casino doing surveillance of her own? I am sorry if you aren't invited to the parties...I didn't mean to offend.

Dallas Also: Peeps, was Natalee wearing a baseball cap when she was in the casinos each night? You know, someone has the opportunity to earn $100,000 to $1,000,000. And be a national hero to Aruba, I would predict.

Oxygenated Lady: Peeps, You are there...can you HELP us? Tell us about the baseball cap reference, please.

Peeps: I was thinking about the cameras in the casinos a few days back. Another reason why we have to thank the dutch legal system is that no info can be given to the public. The answer has to lie on the cameras. I know they have a 2 week history on those recorders. I also know that every corner gets surveilled by those cameras. I think that's what the FBI wants to go after now. They want to sift through evidence, documents. I have no problem with that. The FBI has more experience. The Aruban police should have made and agreement with the FBI from day one, instead of being that proud.

eleye: so, you think the fbi hasn't seen those yet? you think "that" is what the fbi wants to go after....that meaning the tapes? or that meaning the people on them?

Dallas Also: I stand by my question. How did Peeps know about her wearing, or not wearing, a baseball hat? Is he exaggerating when he says "every night?" Bottom line is: is Peeps in a position where he is able to observe things? In the mighty name of Jesus, will someone have the courage in Aruba to come forward?

new girl: Peeps, who do YOU think we should be focusing on here?

Peeps: She couldn't have been kidnapped. Not by plane. Not by boat. There are 2 surface radars, the Dutch marine coast guard. And nobody can leave without Customs clearance. Kidnapped in Aruba? That could be a posibility but why. She wanted to get free from her parents. Well by judging her last entry into her yearbook. That can also be a possibility. I firmly believe that she's been dumped into the sea on the west coast. Let her drift into the ocean. She would have been eaten by barracudas and other fishes, crabs in no time. Possibiliy to recover bones now, nil. I really want to see some change in sea currents caused by tropical storms, so that the sea can flush something back on shore. Then we would have something. This f***ing Joran is sly, and has a rarely seen strong character. There is a dutch team who specialize in interviewing suspects now with him. As I understand they are drilling him, and also filming him in order to look for any anormalities. The only way out I see, is to crack him. But without some evidence SOON it's difficult.

Dallas Also: Peeps, he turns 18 in just 3 more days. There is some thought that he can then be interrogated "as an adult". Surely the Aruban people can see that this kid is the one bringing problems on all of them.

Peeps: I would have to hit the books about that tomorrow. PVDS will also try all his tricks to prevent that. I'll have to see the possibilities. It would be better for all of us if he can be considered as an adult. More perks for the interviewers.

Peeps: I certainly got punched really good by you crazy monkeys tonight. Pleasant day tomorrow. Godspeed.

august 25

finngirl11 quotes arubagirl: They have questioned friends, such as Max Arendsz and Lorenzo van Rijn, and I believe one other guy was questioned for sure, as I believe a few girlfriends. DIARIO wants those pictures

Peeps: Alright guys, I just found out a little detail: There are 2 Max's on the island. But....the difference lies in the last name: Max Arends - @20 years old. And associated with Joran.Max Arendsz - 26 years old. Owner of the Speed Shop and has no clue who Joran and his posse is. Somehow, the names got mixed up and misleading info spread like wild fire. Anyhow, back on topic.

[actually, he had been asked about older Max/younger Max on aug 1]

Peeps:From my uber reliable source, the local detectives searched his house twice already, but what to do if you can't find anything.
The police know about the parties, etc etc. And they also agree that LVR is a little kwak kwak in the head.
Anyhow, I got this pic from a source of mine, which I think will be the only pic you'll be able to find of him.
This is from his van, and guess who's driving.
So there, I helped you guys a little. I hope I don't get shafted like many helpful Arubians have been misused / abused in the past by los americanos. http://img373.imageshack.us/img373/7466/piwannabee6fq.jpg
Don't ask me for more.
Don't ask me for higher resolution.
Don't ask me for bigger pictures.
I still stand by my opinion that you guys are losing your time with this fellow.
See you next time.

Dan in Tx: My Aruban contact tells me LVR's mom's house in Saveneta was NOT searched along with the other house and his boat and car, and furthermore has not been searched even to this day. This person tells me polis want very badly to search the Saveneta 'ranch house' that I believe belongs to his mom but aren't allowed near it as it is 'not in the scope of the search'. Can you verify or refute this please?

Peeps: That's right Dan. Other note: That's the best I can provide you guys. Use your photoshop skills to better the pic.

from another thread

sandraK: Lorenzo's Dad had a VW Dealership.. He is dead.sadly..He runs with Max Arendsz & Orlando Bello. From the Aruba Speed Shop...A Kinda Strange Dude.. but harmless... SM's think he has something to do with this.. Cops Been all over him.. He's not involved...

MisGivings: Is this the 'rave' guy? And, wasn't some of Natalee's clothing found in his basement?

sandraK: No clothes were found...!! Nothing

jozee: SandraK, So Lorenzo runs with the guys from the Speed Shop?? I thought Peeps said he only met him once??

sandraK: and ???

jozee: ...and back at ya...if he met him once how does he run with them?

sandraK: I didn't know Peeps was Max Arendsz....I'm Sorry.. 

jozee: SandraK, I don't believe he is Max...if you are to believe what he says they are best friends...just do a search on Peeps posts and you can see for yourself. He came here after a bunch of Monkeys hit on the speed shop during research. I don't know if he posts anymore....

sandraK: WE PM 

ARUBA SPEED SHOP

Business address DOMINICAWEG 11, ORANJESTAD OOST
Legal form SOLE OWNERSHIP
Name of the company ARUBA SPEED SHOP
Date of commencement 4 FEBRUARY 2003

OWNERS/PARTNERS
ARENDSZ, PEDRO MAXIMO (JR);
Residing in JANSZSTRAAT 4, ORANJESTAD, ARUBA
Born in ARUBA on 6 NOVEMBER 1978
Nationality DUTCH
Position OWNER
Effective 18 FEBRUARY 2003
Authority FULL

OBJECTIVE(S) OF THE COMPANY
1. TO OPERATE A GARAGE COMPANY.
2. TO IMPORT AND THE RETAIL TRADE IN AUTO PARTS AND -ACCESSORIES.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on August 22, 2008, 08:16:04 AM

More from the Race Junkies thread…

I have seen enough posts on this to convince me that Paulus was never a Judge…He was a high ranking official, a lawyer at that. Maybe he was the “fallen Judge” as he never was one.

No wonder Anita kept calling him a Judge. Was it better to refer to him as a Judge in training rather than working as a liason officer for the Dutch Government?

Who told us that Paulus was a Judge? Was this fed to us from Aruban press or did the government put this out there. Is this why they let Paulus drive himself, instead of being driven in a Police car?

BTW...A liason officer with the Dutch Goverment makes a lot more sense as to a US Vice-Consul being seen at his house...Hmmm....Consulates...State Department...Meetings in Fort Lauderdale as early as 6/8...No arrests until 6/9...

The Dutch and Arubans have the US over a barrel regarding the FOPs, Venezuela and Colombia.

Reply #97 on: April 19, 2008, 03:14:46 PM »   
     RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning

« Reply #334 on: June 24, 2005, 04:16:38 AM
»Quote from: "Itawamba"

What can you tell me about this Lorenzo... so I can do some research on him. All I know is that he suppose to a son to Paulus Van Der Sloot.

He's allegedly 26-27 years old.  IF the vdSloot part of his story is true, which I still doubt highly, he would most likely have been born in Holland, possibly Arnehm, where Paulus lived when he was married to Anita and they had Joran.

(I don't know that Arnehm is Paulus's hometown, but it's a known place to start.)  We've heard that Paul was a school teacher before he got into government service in Aruba 10 years ago and did whatever legal training he is supposed to have, whether he has a law degree or not. 

Paulus's job in Aruba for the past few years has been as one of the department of Liaison between The Netherlands and Aruba--and I believe, others of the Dutch Antilles.  That is KABNAA and he was appointed to a 3-year term ending in Jan 2006, except that he evidently has been let go since all this started.

So, who is Lorenzo's mother?  Could it be the Deborah vRijn in Oranjestad, perhaps a widow, or is that just too easy?

Lorenzo's "father" on Aruba is said to have been the Volkswagen dealer on the island and he committed suicide three years ago.  The VW dealership that is there now is:

R & S Automotive N.V.
Address: Barcadera 4
Phone: (297) 585-3004 / (297) 585-3008
Fax: (297) 585-9115 

Note that it's on Barcadera, not sure exactly where that address is, but one of the very earliest searches for Natalee was in the Barcadera area.  I suppose someone could call them and ask questions about the former (late) owner.  He was said to be well known, obviously, since he was a car dealer who needed to have his company name out in the public.

Lorenzo is said to have two homes on far opposite sides of the island--one a mansion and one brightly painted (may be the same one).  Other vague details are that he has a basement in one of these houses, which is rare on Aruba (if not non-existent, IMO); that he gives "underground" parties, meaning *raves*, which are unruly and unsupervised;  that he is "crazy" himself, or perhaps "touched in the head" since his father's death; that he owns a speedboat; and that he was called in for questioning in Nat's disappearance, just before SG Croes was, but he was not detained.

   






Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on August 22, 2008, 08:19:18 AM
One for Lala's...

ALLYINMIAMI on June 28th, 2005 11:14 pm

alcatl—that was pretty funny

Lucy u were right, those simians were imposters, the real simian e-mails me after his blobs to confirm it—he is legit—


http://scaredmonkeys.com/2005/06/28/friend-of-monkey-talks-to-mickey-john/


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on August 22, 2008, 09:03:50 AM


More Lorenzo…Not Joran in the video tape, but Lorenzo.  So who would Lorenzo’s buddies be connected to the case of the 14 year old? We are talking a whole different age group here! If this was so, no wonder no-one got charged with anything….every body walked. Did ALE deliberately lead us towards Joran’s Pimp friends and away from Lorenzo/Paul Brough?

First post talking about Lorenzo, questioned of the beginning of the week…Only person on the Dr. Phil Log is Guido Wever, 6/3, 6/7 and 6/8….Lorenzo Wever?

Reply #13 on: July 09, 2007, 05:20:11 PM »   
 
Hi Sharon,

Looks to me that Lorenzo was brought in the 16th of june in addition to being questioned at the end of the month. I have a feeling that he was questioned the first week after Natalee went missing as well. Pietjezz says this from the translation on 6-10-05:Now i dont know if im going paranoid or what, but at the beginning of the week my neighbor told me that the police arrested Lorenzo because he had something to do with the case!

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1291.20

arubagirl
Monkey Junkey


Joined: 13 Jun 2005

 Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2005 3:21 pm    Post subject:     

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Hi guys, thanks for the warm welcome.

I'm almost afraid to post this, because I really to want to spread around the wrong info, but hasn't another Dutch guy been arrested? With the initials L.v.R.? Any locals hearing this? I've heard this from 2 different sources last night, but not from the press.

arubagirl
Monkey Junkey


Joined: 13 Jun 2005

 Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2005 3:33 pm    Post subject:     

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Leslie, those are not the last names.

Oh, and he was only hauled in for one questioning, not detained. Sorry


http://scaredmonkeys.com/2005/06/28/friend-of-monkey-talks-to-mickey-john/

new girl on June 28th, 2005 10:38 pm
 
The hints from the tipsters and the early rumors about Lorenzo made it sound as though Lorenzo was psycho and potentially violent. Subsequent hints were that he has slaughtered dogs, that he was getting friendly attention from Natalee during the first 3 days of her vacation (because he seemed cool and crazy), and that he got pissed off and jealous when she began paying attention to Joran. I believe also that Lorenzo is 5 or 6 years older than Joran and rumors say he has buddies in the drug and police realms. Oh yeah, and it is rumored that LORENZO, and not Joran, is featured in the video of the gang rape of the 14 year old girl.
 
These things may explain why nobody is speaking. If I was a teenager in-the-know, I wouldn’t risk my neck going up against a corrupt police official and his psycho-dog-slaughtering-Natalee-raping-and-slaughtering-gang-rape video-making buddy. Especially if it also meant possibly busting my friends and also getting myself in trouble with the law / my parents for taking drugs or hanging out at illegal drug parties.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on August 22, 2008, 09:29:45 AM
FRANK CROES ELECTRO/AUTO PARTS & HARDWARE
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a398/vms58/RudyCroes.jpg)
http://www.arubachamber.com/registry/registry_result.afp?KeyValue=19631


SS....Found it...Thanks again for this vms...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 22, 2008, 11:16:07 AM
SS...found some reading for you...LOL...At the bottom are the last 2 times Caps was here and I don't think you were, and the first one you were here.

I recall Pics of both Maxes and their Dads being posted in NAH, pretty sure Pita posted some, so I am hoping she can help you with Max Arendz pic.

Well here Caps is saying that they are not brothers but I think he has always said that…Also says that Hendrick is running the show…

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2989.msg396543#msg396543

785 on: July 06, 2008, 12:57:24 AM » Caps   
 
Quote from: klaasend on July 06, 2008, 12:28:54 AM
Capslock - Let me ask your personal opinion.  Could Karen Janssen and Jan van der Straten have wanted to do the RIGHT thing but could they have been stopped by Deutekom?  Were their hands tied by Deutekom?

KAren and van der Straten wanted the case to come out, but Deutekom had them already under his control....in the OM notting get done without the aproval of duetekom...He is the one that tells Mariam what to say and when to say it.

and then there is Rudy Croes which is the minister of Justice, has the title but no power...he is like Hans Mos. The power is in Hendrick Croes who is the brother of Betico Croes which is the uncle of Rudy Croes.

Hendrick Croes is the back-office (where things are beeing run from) but with no title. In the last election, Rudy croes could not be Minister of Justice and so they made a deal where he will be the front (Puppy say all guy) and Hendrick the real Minster Of Justice. in the eyes of the true MEPS party supportes, they believe that Rudy is running the show but he is not).

Teresa was placed there by Hendrick Croes and so was Marian. both hands where tied down since this guy Duetekom was send protect the blunders that Rudy Croes was commiting... This guy hands are in all the mayor organisation including the UN.

For the case in 2004 we Read what he presented to the court and it was all a fabrication based on what he knows about you.
e.g. if you are an expert in some thing, he will use that knowlage to potraay that since you know about something, that means that the possibility is that you have done it. (So how can you proed that you can not have done it).

In the case of Natalee, Joran boost but he did not do it, but since he boost, he wanted the game to continue and so they stoped him right in there. He will not boost any more.

If I had to call some one to question, I will start with Duetekom and Rudy Croes and the prime Minster and Hendrick Croes.
Steve Garido Croes Jr.



I think Caps made one more post about Steve Croes, not sure though, after this…

I think this was Caps first post on this page SS, and the post I copied is at the second link., may skip a page here and there.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=3077.100


http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=3077.140


« Reply #151 on: July 17, 2008, 06:36:51 PM »   Caps
 
Steve G. Croes is the son off who?

1. Hendrick Croes
2. Rudy Croes
3. Mitch Croes

Select the right candidate and be part of the friends and Famaly Group

Now for DirtyHand,

worked on the Permiso Gate,
worked on the Driver License Gate,
worked on the Minister Ramon Lee Sexual/rape Gate
worked on the Joran V/D Sloot Gate
Worked on the Hendrick Hit and Run Gate

all are MEP Government related case.

CAPS


SS…This is the last time Caps was here…Think it covered quite a few pages...First post

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=3128.msg402661#msg402661


Keep in mind we still don't know Steve's father's name.  Rufo was his UNCLE.  That according to FOX news, I think.  Let me see if I can find my info too.  I think I do have something we would want to see, if I can locate it.  I have file upon file of stuff  about Steve.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 22, 2008, 11:25:20 AM
I have lots of info, but most is what SS has already posted.  I will repost if anyone wants to see the family tree again.  Does anyone remember Steve's grandmother that was also AG's grandmother too?  I have forgotten her name now.  Seems that Caps was indicating that Steve was related to Hendrick in that line of the family.  I still don't see that since Hendrick's family would not be living where Rufo's family lived...it's not fancy enough for the status he would need to maintain.  JMO


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on August 22, 2008, 04:03:06 PM


A Toyota Celica and Seroe Alejandro/Savaneta….Is this the other car?

BTW…GinoX is Gino Angela…email on the FP…gov.aruba?  ::MonkeyConfused::

Checkme Says:

June 17th, 2005 at 9:17 am

Savaneta is on the east side of Aruba. This morning’s local newpaper reports a person being detained at Saveneta. I have seen pics of this person’s house in savaneta on the net, on the day they arrested the three.

subdude on June 28th, 2005 11:30 pm

Lucy: Oowie, that stung a tad. Yust Yoking:)
Ya’ll gals are crazy, and I’m a little punchy. Two a.m. blogger last night.
HmmHmmHmm (clearing throat): APB: Where is Seroe Alejandro? What does seroe mean, lovely folks?

Lucy on June 28th, 2005 11:30 pm

Subdude
Yliana is your only hope now, but I’ll give it a try. I think it is in an area?town called Savaneta, east of Oranjestad. Yliana can confirm.


http://scaredmonkeys.com/2005/06/28/friend-of-monkey-talks-to-mickey-john/

subdude on June 28th, 2005 11:12 pm
Ally:
Glad to help where I can. And to think I was tired a few minutes ago. I really do enjoy the connection through this blog. Very democratic.

Lucy: Fred and Ethel doing the Mambo. The Gringo in me cringes at the thought:)
Yliana: Help with local info, please. Name of National Park? Dana’s repeated “blue water”s mean anything, especially regarding the country house of LvR reported to be off the beaten path in Seroe Alejandro?


http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1291.0


Reply #4 on: July 07, 2007, 08:13:34 PM »   
 
new girl: when I asked what kind of car lorenzo drove it was because of this post I’d found. Per checkme, he drives cool cars and crashes them, correct? Here’s the link, scroll down to GinoX’s post about a guy in Seroe Alejandro that has a Celica . It looks like we may have a way to get more info, at least see if it’s him. At the end, search the Gino X’s posts — he has a contact email. What do you think — could be something. Could be nothing….

http://forums.club4ag.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=87897
http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/?p=1198

Who owned the gray Toyota?

Name: Annie Vicenta Todd
Date: 28 June 2005
Pages: 1
Writer/Initiator: Ghrizanti Tromp & Dennis Jacobs
Description: witness pointing out an area of interest
 
Name: Annie Vicenta Todd
Date: 28 June 2005
Pages: 3
Writer/Initiator: Ghrizanti Tromp & Dennis Jacobs
Description: witness statement about a gray Toyota

One of these guys? Maybe Max Arendz?

Name: Luis Ramirez
Date: 28 June 2005 / 11:15
Pages: 3
Writer/Initiator: Johny Erasmus & Zoraida De Cuba
Description: witness statement by the Kalpoe's stepfather

Name: Freddy Alexander Zedan Arambatzis
Date:28 June 2005 / 14:25
Pages: 11
Writer/Initiator: Shaniro Kelly & Haydee Nadal
Description: witness statement

Name: Lorenzo Van Rijn
Date: 28 June 2005 / 17:00
Pages: 2
Writer/Initiator: Giovanni Heyliger
Description: witness statement


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on August 22, 2008, 06:24:29 PM
Thanks everyone for the Lorenzo information.  I was tuned into him long ago, but somehow he dropped off my radar screen.  He's definitely back up there again.  Has anyone read LVR's statement?  I wonder exactly what Max's alibi was for him. If the 5th was home all night with a tight alibi, there had to be more than just Maxito to support this.  It's interesting that AG had scoop on Lorenzo very early.  The ongoing references to him being with Natalee earlier in the week are driving me crazy, because this would follow the information about the wild and crazy guy who got into a confrontation with Urine.  These things are all pointing to LVR as the 5th.  The Brough/LVR video connection also bothers me.  Has anyone ever made a connection between Paul Brough and Ernesto other than both being in Miami?  If not, it gives me something else to think about and a possible motive to protect Freddy with Shango's help. Did LVR avoid being identified by the media when he was initially brought in because he might have been questioned at a different police station on the east side of the island?  If Maxito and Lorenzo are close in age, they know each other.  The island isn't that big.  How could he be his alibi, if he doesn't know him?  He knows him.  We need our friend to help us with possible additions to the guest list.  I would like to know who else supported the alibi that has made it "so tight".  I am wondering if some of the other party-goers also claimed that they were at Lorenzo's house, all night.  I'm starting to think that NH was taken there after the video production.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on August 22, 2008, 06:33:35 PM
Does anyone know who allyinmiami is or anything about her?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: sharon on August 22, 2008, 08:14:48 PM
Does anyone know who allyinmiami is or anything about her?

She mentioned her birthday. IIRC, she mentioned being part of a latin culture family. She may even have mentioned the country, but I don't recall.

I don't believe she ever really mentioned 'why' she was posting. Or what she did in Miami. I don't even remember her saying 'goodbye'  ::MonkeyHaHa::

I was always fascinated by the name because I did not read it like a gir's name -- ally. I read it as 'friend' or 'not enemy' -- ally in Miami.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on August 22, 2008, 08:27:05 PM
Thanks everyone for the Lorenzo information.  I was tuned into him long ago, but somehow he dropped off my radar screen.  He's definitely back up there again.  Has anyone read LVR's statement?  I wonder exactly what Max's alibi was for him. If the 5th was home all night with a tight alibi, there had to be more than just Maxito to support this.  It's interesting that AG had scoop on Lorenzo very early.  The ongoing references to him being with Natalee earlier in the week are driving me crazy, because this would follow the information about the wild and crazy guy who got into a confrontation with Urine.  These things are all pointing to LVR as the 5th.  The Brough/LVR video connection also bothers me.  Has anyone ever made a connection between Paul Brough and Ernesto other than both being in Miami?  If not, it gives me something else to think about and a possible motive to protect Freddy with Shango's help. Did LVR avoid being identified by the media when he was initially brought in because he might have been questioned at a different police station on the east side of the island?  If Maxito and Lorenzo are close in age, they know each other.  The island isn't that big.  How could he be his alibi, if he doesn't know him?  He knows him.  We need our friend to help us with possible additions to the guest list.  I would like to know who else supported the alibi that has made it "so tight".  I am wondering if some of the other party-goers also claimed that they were at Lorenzo's house, all night.  I'm starting to think that NH was taken there after the video production.


What are the Arawaks hiding? A suspect?.......

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 2:58 pm
The music man’s song was not on the bill.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:09 pm
Simian, who else plays in the orchestra? A Babylonian….

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:10 pm
Simian, older PVDS had one ot two cards up his sleeve. They have been played, and lost. Will one of the cards sing?

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:42 pm
Arawaks hold singing card from babylon
There is also a trio. One Babylonian. 2 Shivas.
Arawaks can’t let babylonian Card [DirtyHand] sing because hand holding it dirty too. [Arawaks]

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:53 pm
DirtyHand is the key
He walks with the elders
He walks in all houses
And he walked [was released] with the fallen elder
he was the hidden card that was played [played by PVDS]



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on August 22, 2008, 08:36:15 PM
A very helpful and clever monkey directed me to this website...
http://www.bastardly.com/archives/2005/07/23/what-really-happened-to-natalee-holloway

Supposedly, Allyinmiami knew Shango and conversed with Simian and Checkme.  She claims to have been copied on the FP of SM and as a result was banned.  ::MonkeyConfused::  Anyway these are posts made by allyinmiami on another website.  I find some of them very interesting.  She mentions some things that I don't think we weren't aware of in 2005.  Some of the dialogue between she and Stefani is very interesting.
_____________

106. Stefani (Uncertified Bastard)
"Shango Says" is a very interesting Riddle written using that username in June of 2005.Proof of a password to realizing if it is the true composer, "SHANGO" is Allyinmiami. There have been MANY Simian and Shango imposters on the net.
Varied skeptism as to "WHO" Shango really can be. Someone has taken on the username and posted this riddle to possibly tell about WHAT really happened to Natalee, perhaps they were there ? or perhaps they are clearing a conscience, and want to secretly EXPOSE the deep corruption existing on the island of Aruba. Hokey ? I do not think so, nor do MANY others. Interpret it, perhaps, but it would take a lot of work. Constantly rereading it and surfing to locate the meaning behind the hidden clues, fascinating. Do I believe the SHango author KNOWS what happened and WHAT goes on there on that island of Aruba ? Absolutely I do 110 % !!

Read and see. I firmly believe that the answers lie within SHango, don't u too, Columbo ? Give us more !!

http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/?p=1190#comment-25477

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-backroom/1454903/posts?page=181,31

Sunday, November 6th, 2005 @ 2:57pm


Is she referring to the Matty Apts. back in 2005?
118. Stefani (Uncertified Bastard)
10061909~Scubajap reported in a couple of the forums that the first link which shows buildings was NOT what we think. The restaurant there, interesting enough is owned by the stepfather of the K x's.These are located very close to the Sloot's property.These were discussed heavily at the Natalee forum that has shut down for approx. 3 weeks ? now. I do not know. I feel that she was taken to a private party at the home of the 1/2 bro, of Lorenzo Wever. He is under 30 as the psychic said. Under the influence of X would certainly do her in, especially if she was given too large of a dose !

488. ALLYINMIAMI (Uncertified Bastard)
http://members.aol.com/DRoberdeau/NATALEE/NATALEEtimeline.html

i am sure u all have already seen this, but it is a great source. Columbo=several connections. Brickell Bay Drive in MIAMI, is a huge real estate market; very lucrative. In addition to that "PIPKIN" (douglas) was one of the initial buyers when the area was first becoming developed. A (Posner) and Pipkin (nickname) Redbo, were in the Military together. Both placed bets at the track here in Miami, last Spring..on the same race. This seems to be at the approximate time that the VDS were here.
Wednesday, February 22nd, 2006 @ 11:12pm

788. ALLYINMIAMI (Uncertified Bastard)
Stefani that is okay...i understand...I didn't know that anyone was impersonating me...Therefore, i was caught off guard... Thanks for the welcoming...I actually have two questions (for right now) 1) Does this board always take sooo long to load...and is there anywhere else that we can post that in less time consuming.....2)Has anyone heard from checkme?.....Yes, i conversed with SIM too...however, check and i became close (friends)...and then as we commence conversing in greated depth...my e-mail was hacked and his account was closed at aol....I just have been concerned...

Tuesday, December 13th, 2005 @ 12:57pm

Is Ally saying that she was taken from the party location to Lorenzo's house or somewhere else?790. ALLYINMIAMI (Uncertified Bastard)
i think so, Columbo...through the maze......she entered and was taken out back to another High Roller destination or to a place where they would keep her until ready for the next transaction/destination...
Friday, January 13th, 2006 @ 7:29pm








Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on August 22, 2008, 08:45:17 PM
Arawak Dirty Hand:

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:32 pm
The sacrifice is the correct food to appease the gods, arawaks, and cowboys
but the foundations of the house of babylon will shake
even harder if Arawak Dirty Hand is revealed


Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:42 pm
Arawaks hold singing card from babylon
There is also a trio. One Babylonian. 2 Shivas.
Arawaks can’t let babylonian Card [DirtyHand] sing because hand holding it dirty too.

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 9:48 pm
Babalu knew who dirty hand was at half past 12

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:01 pm
Arawaks often go to play in small houses of Babylon with the offspring of the Elders

(the game, pg 4: http://www.ca11.uscourts.gov/opinions/ops/200214306.pdf )
 hand, rules of the game: pg 18
***pg 7-Arawak dirty hand***

what Babalu said:
Babalú Says: June 27th, 2005 at 12:30 am
Concerned: No, I guess he is head of some local official corps. He is the guy that knows everything and that has been in the house of Babylonians NOT seeking pleasure for himself, so Shango says. So maybe he went to search for Natalee and he is the chief of Polis.

Shango said that:
DirtyHand is the link
He holds the real key

Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 12:23 am
Follow the notes
to the poison house [DirtyHand's key?]
where the children of the babylonians
and the arawak nation [dirty hand]
meet
, under cover of delusion. [DirtyHand is the link-holds the key]
In the maze
the lions which play
shall be found.
The gamblers also took note.
Tell the cowboys!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on August 22, 2008, 09:19:32 PM
Thanks everyone for the Lorenzo information.  I was tuned into him long ago, but somehow he dropped off my radar screen.  He's definitely back up there again.  Has anyone read LVR's statement?  I wonder exactly what Max's alibi was for him. If the 5th was home all night with a tight alibi, there had to be more than just Maxito to support this.  It's interesting that AG had scoop on Lorenzo very early.  The ongoing references to him being with Natalee earlier in the week are driving me crazy, because this would follow the information about the wild and crazy guy who got into a confrontation with Urine.  These things are all pointing to LVR as the 5th.  The Brough/LVR video connection also bothers me.  Has anyone ever made a connection between Paul Brough and Ernesto other than both being in Miami?  If not, it gives me something else to think about and a possible motive to protect Freddy with Shango's help. Did LVR avoid being identified by the media when he was initially brought in because he might have been questioned at a different police station on the east side of the island?  If Maxito and Lorenzo are close in age, they know each other.  The island isn't that big.  How could he be his alibi, if he doesn't know him?  He knows him.  We need our friend to help us with possible additions to the guest list.  I would like to know who else supported the alibi that has made it "so tight".  I am wondering if some of the other party-goers also claimed that they were at Lorenzo's house, all night.  I'm starting to think that NH was taken there after the video production.


What are the Arawaks hiding? A suspect?....... they were hiding Lorenzo's involvement

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 2:58 pm
The music man’s song was not on the bill.  Steve Croes was not supposed to come forward

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:09 pm
Simian, who else plays in the orchestra? A Babylonian…. Lorenzo?

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:10 pm
Simian, older PVDS had one ot two cards up his sleeve. They have been played, and lost. Will one of the cards sing?  Are the cards his sons - Urine and Lorenzo?

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:42 pm
Arawaks hold singing card from babylon  Lorenzo?
There is also a trio. One Babylonian. 2 Shivas. Urine and the Kalpoes
Arawaks can’t let babylonian Card [DirtyHand] sing because hand holding it dirty too. [Arawaks]  They can't let Lorenzo sing because there are too many big people involved in his drugs and porn videos?

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:53 pm
DirtyHand is the key
He walks with the elders Lorenzo does business with too many important people in Aruba
He walks in all houses
And he walked [was released] with the fallen elder
he was the hidden card that was played [played by PVDS]

Paulass played the card (Lorenzo) because he knew that ALE couldn't expose Lorenzo and his illegal operations.  They would have to cover everything up.  DTKM is Dirty Hand #1, but Lorenzo must also be a dirty hand because he runs the drugs and porn on Aruba.





Colombo - I hear you.  I have added some comments in red above.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on August 22, 2008, 09:37:51 PM
Does this make sense....

Julia provides the photography equipment from her business
Urine and the Pimps provide the girls
Freddy and Julia film the productions
LVR fences the videos through Brough in Miami

LVR is in charge of the drugs and the porn.
LVR had a confrontation with his half-brother, Urine, because LVR was the wild and crazy Dutch guy who was holding hands with NH and had dinner with her earlier in the week.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on August 22, 2008, 10:11:17 PM
crs Says: June 24th, 2005 at 3:17 pm
Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 4:50 pm
Some people on the other side of the pond know more than what they are saying. There testimony, there’s security footage, there are witnesses.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 4:56 pm
The 5th suspect has an alibi so strong that he has everybody baffled.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:00 pm
The 5th suspect was the boyfriend from earlier in the week.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:03 pm
The party-goers said the 5th one was with them. He was the host. How could he have left?

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:09 pm
A scorned lover needs a motive? Drives some people to some crazy deeds.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:13 pm
A jealous boyfriend was at home with some friends. He couldn’t have done it. Sometimes friends will cover for each other.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:16 pm
He had to be let go

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:26 pm
The alibi story is the almost the latest.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:29 pm
I did not say an ex. Do you people read? I not into repeating myself.

[he repeats himself] Checkme…check this…and please recheck:

Girl comes to Aruba. Meets cool and crazy guy in C@$ino. Goes out with him. He declares that to be the case. Can’t deny it. It’s on tape.  Everybody in the C@$ino knows the group of teens, they have been drinking in there for free the whole week. After a couple of days girl meets another boy in the same C@$ino. Goes out with him.
Simian: This makes first guy really mad. So mad he confronts second boy.
First guy never denies the affair. He knows they know he was with her. However, he has an airtight alibi. Some friends say they were at home with him. Until the morning.
How can this ever be solved?

Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 2:30 pm
Paulus has been picked up.
Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 2:23 pm
The older Van Der Sloot has been taken in again by Aruban Police.


Sim - when you speak of this boy I think everyone thinks you are talking about Joran but your not are you - you are talking about this other individual.

Big Pappy Says: June 24th, 2005 at 3:22 pm
Simian, you’re freaking me out now, alot of us think the boy ain’t right but what are you saying? So much stuff on him? History we don’t know about?

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 3:31 pm
The father was confronted with evidence. Can’t confirm if it’s from the cars of the house. They needed this to make him talk.

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 2:50 pm
This is bad. Really bad…He has a history of making himself be something he is not. (An Arawak!)

He....is PVDS



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on August 23, 2008, 12:26:24 AM
crs Says: June 24th, 2005 at 3:17 pm
Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 4:50 pm
Some people on the other side of the pond know more than what they are saying. There testimony, there’s security footage, there are witnesses.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 4:56 pm
The 5th suspect has an alibi so strong that he has everybody baffled.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:00 pm
The 5th suspect was the boyfriend from earlier in the week.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:03 pm
The party-goers said the 5th one was with them. He was the host. How could he have left?

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:09 pm
A scorned lover needs a motive? Drives some people to some crazy deeds.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:13 pm
A jealous boyfriend was at home with some friends. He couldn’t have done it. Sometimes friends will cover for each other.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:16 pm
He had to be let go

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:26 pm
The alibi story is the almost the latest.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:29 pm
I did not say an ex. Do you people read? I not into repeating myself.

[he repeats himself] Checkme…check this…and please recheck:

Girl comes to Aruba. Meets cool and crazy guy in C@$ino. Goes out with him. He declares that to be the case. Can’t deny it. It’s on tape.  Everybody in the C@$ino knows the group of teens, they have been drinking in there for free the whole week. After a couple of days girl meets another boy in the same C@$ino. Goes out with him.
Simian: This makes first guy really mad. So mad he confronts second boy.
First guy never denies the affair. He knows they know he was with her. However, he has an airtight alibi. Some friends say they were at home with him. Until the morning.
How can this ever be solved?

Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 2:30 pm
Paulus has been picked up.
Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 2:23 pm
The older Van Der Sloot has been taken in again by Aruban Police.


Sim - when you speak of this boy I think everyone thinks you are talking about Joran but your not are you - you are talking about this other individual.

Big Pappy Says: June 24th, 2005 at 3:22 pm
Simian, you’re freaking me out now, alot of us think the boy ain’t right but what are you saying? So much stuff on him? History we don’t know about?

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 3:31 pm
The father was confronted with evidence. Can’t confirm if it’s from the cars of the house. They needed this to make him talk.

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 2:50 pm
This is bad. Really bad…He has a history of making himself be something he is not. (An Arawak!)

He....is PVDS


They all "fled" off Aruba and onto the Netherlands. Posner, Guido Wever, Gottenbos family, Greg V Cromvort, etc....in the beginning this was, all except Joran. Why?
Because IMHO Joran can identify someone who is 'alive (not dead) and healthy (not sick)...

Someone who doesn't leave his 'lair', 'den', 'home', whatever. Someone who is above Lorenzo, SCroes, but 'neath Jan van der Straten. Remember him? the godfather in all of this. Prolly hatinjg what has been put into action...and now he figures he may as well retire (hahahahaha - laughing as that is so a joke!!!)

If it was nothing, Joran would have confessed outside of that car camera. But it was SOMETHING, and he confessed in the car.

ALWAYS REMEMBER, DEEPCRACK TOOK A SHOWER BEFORE GOING TO JORAN'S HOUSE THAT NIGHT.... CUZ THEY WERE GOING TO GO SOMEWHERE AFTERWARDS C&C. HE TOOK A SHOWER TO HANG IN A BAR (C&C) FOR 30 MIN? NAAAA. HE TOOK A SHOWER TO APPEASE jORAN AND JORAN'S GOING AFTER NATALEE.... AND THEN THEY DROVE SOMEWHERE.

tO THIS RAVE AT LORENZO'S, OR BACK TO THE HOLIDAY INN....NOT SURE NOW.

BUT THEY DROVE IN DEEPCRACK'S CAR SOMEWHERE THAT NIGHT.

AS SHE WAS GOING IN AND OUT OF CONSCIOUSNESS.

WHAT A SIN.   WHAT A TRAVESTY.

SOMETHING AIN'T RIGHT. DEEPCRACK AND SADTUCHE KNOWS IT AIN'T RIGHT....

http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/terrorists/fugitives.htm

http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/terrorists/terbinladen.htm    ****honey LADEN notes *****

Aliases: Usama Bin Muhammad Bin Ladin, Shaykh Usama Bin Ladin, The Prince ***THE PRINCE AT THIS BALL IS NO PRINCE CHARMING ***
, The Emir, Abu Abdallah, Mujahid Shaykh, Hajj, The Director

'


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on August 23, 2008, 05:30:32 AM

SS: your memory is the same as mine ...
re Steve/his son living w/ Steve's grandparents
next door to Tio Rufo/his wife

a thought re the address registry
and how accurate it really is/was:
someone could be registered at one place
but living somewhere else either long/short term,
yes?

people/families/couples disagree/argue ...
or their finances take a dive ...
and they stay at someone's place for awhile
or someone moves in to share expenses/etc
until the situation improves

any idea re how often the registry is updated
and what's required from individuals
in terms of reporting changes?

what kinda registry is it, anyway?

I'm familiar w/ sex offender registries
but have never come across something like this
where the gov't keeps track of who lives where
and how could they possibly update it often enough
to keep it accurate?
_ _ _ _ _

Pita: thanks for the photo of Maxito

at first glance he doesn't look familiar ...
I don't remember his hair being that dark/that straight
but it's been quite awhile
and I've not seen that particular photo before

the ones I recall he was leaning against the fender of his ride
and in group shots w/ his racing team/buds

but thank you for finding that one
_ _ _ _ _

I'm gonna be gone for about 10 days ...
no doubt all kinda stuff will break while I'm away!

keep up the good work/laters





According to our "elusive friend", the government of Aruba maintains a registry of people who live in Aruba and move there.  I believe we were told that this registry is held in one of the government offices.  Basically, it gives the individual's names, parents, date of birth, and place of birth.  Steve Croes and his family were in this registry when they came to Aruba from Curacao.  It's not the same registry as the Chamber list.  The entry for Steve and his family is back in the Shango thread from last Spring - probably around March or April.  We need a CAPS thread.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on August 23, 2008, 05:48:14 AM

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:29 pm
I did not say an ex. Do you people read? I not into repeating myself.

[he repeats himself] Checkme…check this…and please recheck:Girl comes to Aruba. Meets cool and crazy guy in C@$ino. Goes out with him. He declares that to be the case. Can’t deny it. It’s on tape.   Everybody in the C@$ino knows the group of teens, they have been drinking in there for free the whole week. After a couple of days girl meets another boy in the same C@$ino. Goes out with him.
Simian: This makes first guy really mad. So mad he confronts second boy.
First guy never denies the affair. He knows they know he was with her. However, he has an airtight alibi. Some friends say they were at home with him. Until the morning.
How can this ever be solved?


crs Says: June 24th, 2005 at 3:17 pm
Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 4:50 pm
Some people on the other side of the pond know more than what they are saying. There testimony, there’s security footage, there are witnesses.

Is this why Posner was so angry that the security tape from the casino was released to the media?  Who, besides Urine and Paulass, are on that tape?  Is LVR on that tape or is there another security tape from a few days before that we haven't seen?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on August 23, 2008, 05:54:41 AM
Simian: This makes first guy really mad. So mad he confronts second boy.
First guy never denies the affair. He knows they know he was with her. However, he has an airtight alibi. Some friends say they were at home with him. Until the morning.
How can this ever be solved?

____________

If this is correct, more people than just Maxito Arendzs provided the alibi.  Would this be Julia, Chemaley, and the rest of the party-goers?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on August 23, 2008, 08:17:49 AM
This is Max Arends (Eyebrows), friend of Urine.  The event was his grandfather's 90th birthday.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on August 23, 2008, 08:25:16 AM
This is Anouk.  Does anyone know anything about her?  She may be a cousin of John Chemaly.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 23, 2008, 10:35:08 AM
Simian: This makes first guy really mad. So mad he confronts second boy.
First guy never denies the affair. He knows they know he was with her. However, he has an airtight alibi. Some friends say they were at home with him. Until the morning.
How can this ever be solved?

____________

If this is correct, more people than just Maxito Arendzs provided the alibi.  Would this be Julia, Chemaley, and the rest of the party-goers?


But..but...Colombo says the first guy was Paulus? 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on August 23, 2008, 08:00:05 PM
Simian: This makes first guy really mad. So mad he confronts second boy.
First guy never denies the affair. He knows they know he was with her. However, he has an airtight alibi. Some friends say they were at home with him. Until the morning.
How can this ever be solved?

____________

If this is correct, more people than just Maxito Arendzs provided the alibi.  Would this be Julia, Chemaley, and the rest of the party-goers?


But..but...Colombo says the first guy was Paulus? 

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 4:50 pm
Some people on the other side of the pond know more than what they are saying. There testimony, there’s security footage, there are witnesses.

June 22nd, 2005 at 5:38 pm
Checkme…check this…and please recheck:

Girl comes to Aruba. Meets cool and crazy guy in C@$ino. Goes out with him. He declares that to be the case. Can’t deny it. It’s on tape.  Everybody in the C@$ino knows the group of teens, they have been drinking in there for free the whole week. After a couple of days girl meets another boy in the same C@$ino. Goes out with him.
Simian: This makes first guy really mad. So mad he confronts second boy.
First guy never denies the affair. He knows they know he was with her. However, he has an airtight alibi. Some friends say they were at home with him. Until the morning.
How can this ever be solved?

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 3:31 pm
The father was confronted with evidence. Can’t confirm if it’s from the cars of the house. They needed this to make him talk.

Simian Says: June 25th, 2005 at 7:28 pm
The father is trapped in a legal check mate.

Simian Says: June 25th, 2005 at 7:59 pm
The fires burned high and bright. Even Saint John denied he knew. The smoke will clear soon.
The elder can’t deny. The son can’t talk. He is biting off his tongue. His sore and bloody tongue.

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:27 pm
The elder had to come clean. He knows what damage he had caused. The Simian said to not shake the wire, ‘cause the bird would fly away.
The Simian would never pose. Go back and read what the Simian wrote. The Babylonians knows what happened, but they are up in arms. The gamblers knew the girl.

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:29 pm
Some windows overlooking Babylon have been opened


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on August 24, 2008, 03:01:50 AM
Simian: This makes first guy really mad. So mad he confronts second boy.
First guy never denies the affair. He knows they know he was with her. However, he has an airtight alibi. Some friends say they were at home with him. Until the morning.
How can this ever be solved?

____________

If this is correct, more people than just Maxito Arendzs provided the alibi.  Would this be Julia, Chemaley, and the rest of the party-goers?


But..but...Colombo says the first guy was Paulus? 



I know Lala's.  I'm seeing the first guy as possibly Lorenzo.  I just can't get my head around Paulass as a wild and crazy guy.    ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on August 24, 2008, 08:09:27 AM
Simian: This makes first guy really mad. So mad he confronts second boy.
First guy never denies the affair. He knows they know he was with her. However, he has an airtight alibi. Some friends say they were at home with him. Until the morning.
How can this ever be solved?

____________

If this is correct, more people than just Maxito Arendzs provided the alibi.  Would this be Julia, Chemaley, and the rest of the party-goers?


But..but...Colombo says the first guy was Paulus? 



I know Lala's.  I'm seeing the first guy as possibly Lorenzo.  I just can't get my head around Paulass as a wild and crazy guy.    ::MonkeyHaHa::

Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 11:06 am
The important “others” are the ones that supported the alibi.

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 2:50 pm
This is bad. Really bad…He has a history of making himself be something he is not.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on August 24, 2008, 08:10:25 AM
sounds like a "rap".... ::MonkeyEek::

"honey laden notes"


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on August 24, 2008, 08:58:03 AM
Good Morning,

I have a few questions and I don't even know if anyone has the answers.

I am having trouble seeing Paulass as the 5th and the guy from earlier in the week.  I can't see Natalee or any other girl her age having any attraction to him.  We have to be missing something in Simian's message.  I think that I am stuck on Simian's statement that the cool and crazy guy could be Paulass because he is on the tape next to her in the casino.  The security tape from the casino does show Natalee sitting at the table with Paulass and Urine.  What if there are more security tapes that we haven't seen.  Those tapes hold weeks of casino images.  Were the tapes of Paulass released intentionally to confuse us and protect Lorenzo?  I also recall hearing about Natalee being on a security tape from a jewelry store.  What if this is the tape the ALE has and the tape Simian is referring to?  Could Lorenzo have been with Natalee on the jewelry store tapes?  Perhaps he bought her a gift.  Have we been looking at the wrong tape?  Do the images from this jewelry store tape exist anywhere?

We have heard many references that Lorenzo was the Dutch guy who was seen with Natalee earlier in the week.  They supposedly had dinner together and were seen holding hands.  Did we ever find any definite statements from MB students or HI employees that they identified Natalee with Lorenzo?  We have reports that Natalee was with Lorenzo, but there aren't any reports that Natalee was seen with Paulass anywhere but in that casino footage.  Her MB girlfriends have to know something about who she was with.  If Lorenzo has been identified as the cool and crazy Dutch guy from earlier in the week, then there has to be additional security tapes that we have not seen.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on August 24, 2008, 09:11:17 AM
Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:49 pm
The maze offers many hidden desires
deflowerings of forbidden fruits
DirtyHand knows.
So does the elder.
The lamb is a scapegoat.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on August 24, 2008, 09:16:32 AM
Good Morning,

I have a few questions and I don't even know if anyone has the answers.

I am having trouble seeing Paulass as the 5th and the guy from earlier in the week.  I can't see Natalee or any other girl her age having any attraction to him.  We have to be missing something in Simian's message.  I think that I am stuck on Simian's statement that the cool and crazy guy could be Paulass because he is on the tape next to her in the casino.  The security tape from the casino does show Natalee sitting at the table with Paulass and Urine.  What if there are more security tapes that we haven't seen.  Those tapes hold weeks of casino images.  Were the tapes of Paulass released intentionally to confuse us and protect Lorenzo?  I also recall hearing about Natalee being on a security tape from a jewelry store.  What if this is the tape the ALE has and the tape Simian is referring to?  Could Lorenzo have been with Natalee on the jewelry store tapes?  Perhaps he bought her a gift.  Have we been looking at the wrong tape?  Do the images from this jewelry store tape exist anywhere?

We have heard many references that Lorenzo was the Dutch guy who was seen with Natalee earlier in the week.  They supposedly had dinner together and were seen holding hands.  Did we ever find any definite statements from MB students or HI employees that they identified Natalee with Lorenzo?  We have reports that Natalee was with Lorenzo, but there aren't any reports that Natalee was seen with Paulass anywhere but in that casino footage.  Her MB girlfriends have to know something about who she was with.  If Lorenzo has been identified as the cool and crazy Dutch guy from earlier in the week, then there has to be additional security tapes that we have not seen.

remember-what was being kept hidden was one of two cards played by PVDS, not necessarily a suspect:

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:49 pm
The maze offers many hidden desires
deflowerings of forbidden fruits
DirtyHand knows.
So does the elder.
The lamb is a scapegoat.



from an earlier post:
"On 6-23 MARIAINE CROES said "There is a reasonable suspicion that (Paulus van der Sloot) knows something and is involved in the disappearance." In a statement, Croes called Paulus van der Sloot the fifth suspect in the disappearance of NATALEE. "

CNN
Judge arrested in Aruba case
Fifth suspect in custody after U.S. teen's disappearance
Thursday, June 23, 2005; Posted: 10:01 p.m. EDT (02:01 GMT)
http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/06/23/aruba.holloway/index.html

Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
Father is a suspect of the disappearance.
Posted Jun 23, 3:10 PM



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on August 24, 2008, 09:18:37 AM
Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 4:56 pm
The 5th suspect has an alibi so strong that he has everybody baffled.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:00 pm
The 5th suspect was the boyfriend from earlier in the week.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:03 pm
The party-goers said the 5th one was with them. He was the host. How could he have left?

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:09 pm
A scorned lover needs a motive? Drives some people to some crazy deeds.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:13 pm
A jealous boyfriend was at home with some friends. He couldn’t have done it. Sometimes friends will cover for each other.

re: 5th suspect
Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:16 pm
He had to be let go


Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 2:30 pm
Paulus has been picked up.
Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 2:23 pm
The older Van Der Sloot has been taken in again by Aruban Police.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on August 24, 2008, 11:53:16 AM
Colombo, everything that you are saying makes sense.  I just can't go with Paulass as Natalee's boyfriend from earlier in the week.  The thought is repulsive.  She probably didn't know that Paulass was Urine's father because he had given her the story about being a visiting soccer player from the Netherlands, but I just can't see her getting involved with a man his age and specifically with Paulass.  It does something to my sensibilities.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on August 24, 2008, 12:29:00 PM
SS:

Felt that way myself.......

His Lordship is there to preserve Babylon, not the elder
http://scaredmonkeys.com/2006/02/25/michael-posner-upset-over-excelsior-casino-security-tapes-to-abc/




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on August 24, 2008, 12:37:29 PM
Does anyone know who allyinmiami is or anything about her?

She mentioned her birthday. IIRC, she mentioned being part of a latin culture family. She may even have mentioned the country, but I don't recall.

I don't believe she ever really mentioned 'why' she was posting. Or what she did in Miami. I don't even remember her saying 'goodbye'  ::MonkeyHaHa::

I was always fascinated by the name because I did not read it like a gir's name -- ally. I read it as 'friend' or 'not enemy' -- ally in Miami.



Hi Sharon...How was Bruuuuuuuce? ::MonkeyHaHa::

I thought I read a post of hers that said she could have been born in Poland, but was born here...Interesting thought on Ally...

COLUMBO...Anything to add on Ally... ::MonkeyWink::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 24, 2008, 02:13:06 PM
Colombo, everything that you are saying makes sense.  I just can't go with Paulass as Natalee's boyfriend from earlier in the week.  The thought is repulsive.  She probably didn't know that Paulass was Urine's father because he had given her the story about being a visiting soccer player from the Netherlands, but I just can't see her getting involved with a man his age and specifically with Paulass.  It does something to my sensibilities.

Natalee was not interested in Paulus at any time. She was a 19 year old girl in what she thought was paradise....Paulus was not on her list.  I know everyone wants it to fit into the Simian verse...but if she had anything at all to do with Paulus...the MB teens would not be able to keep that hidden.  They would have identified him already.  No way Beth would have let that piece of info be hidden under any circumstances.  That one thing could easily have implicated Paulus from the beginning and he would never have been able to manipulate this case as has happened.  Until Beth tells me Paulus is the boyfriend I refuse to believe it.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on August 24, 2008, 04:32:30 PM
Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:49 pm
The maze offers many hidden desires
deflowerings of forbidden fruits
DirtyHand knows.
So does the elder.
The lamb is a scapegoat.

I have a question that I hope someone can answer for me.

The codetalker prose says there are TWO FATHERS and TWO SONS - one son was LATE for school and one son was ON TIME for school. JORAN=one son and the BOYFRIEND FROM EARLIER IN THE WEEK =perhaps the other son.

So we have 4/5 different people?

1) ELDER, who is now a FALLEN ELDER,  = ??  AN ELDER IS AN OLD FAMILY NAME ON ARUBA
2) JUDGE, who is now a FALLEN JUDGE  = PAULUS (BUT HE WAS NEVER REALLY A JUDGE...WAS HE?)
3) DIRTYHAND = ?? SOMEONE WHO WE THOUGHT WAS SICK/DEAD WHO IS NOW ALIVE AND WELL AND ALL ARE AFRAID OF THIS PERSON. SOMEONE WHO MADE THE ELDER'S KIDS FLEE ARUBA AS THIS WAS HIS 'POWER'.
4) SINGING CARD = STEVE CROES? or IS THIS DIRTYHAND?
5) ARAWAK SINGING CARD = THEY KEEP HIM HIDDEN SO WE DON'T KNOW WHO THIS IS...or IS THIS DIRTYHAND?
Sorry if this was discussed previously...

Shango below says the Arawaks keep their singing card hidden, and that the 'fallen judge' and the 'singing card' are of the same hand.  So Paulus and singing card=steve croes? are of the same hand?

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:49 pm
Elder needs to sing to preserve his lineage. To agree to remain silent is to agree not to hum any tune. The Arawaks are desperate, they fear for the tribe, they do not want war with the cowboys. But the loot remains hidden. And the Arawaks keep their singing card hidden as well. The fallen judge and the singing card are of the same hand, but it is dangerous for the Arawaks to play it, because everyone would hear, including the cowboys

Simian Says: June 25th, 2005 at 7:28 pm
The father is trapped in a legal check mate.

Simian Says: June 25th, 2005 at 7:59 pm
The fires burned high and bright. Even Saint John denied he knew. The smoke will clear soon.
The elder can’t deny. The son can’t talk. He is biting off his tongue. His sore and bloody tongue.

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:27 pm
The elder had to come clean. He knows what damage he  had caused.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:43 pm
The fallen judge agreed to sing because he can hum any tune. He needs to sing for his son, or see the end of his babylonian offspring.  (to save joran's life...!)

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 8:27 pm
DirtyHand and the fallen judge may not be crucified. the gods are talking.

Shango Says:June 26th, 2005 at 10:53 pm
DirtyHand is the key. He walks with the elders. He walks in all houses. And he walked with the fallen elder. he was the hidden card that was played. now if he sings, babylon will fall on the arawak nation

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 11:05 pm
DirtyHand has worked for the elders for a long time.

Shango Says:June 27th , 2005 at 9:51 pm
DirtyHand walks with the Babylons, the Arawaks and is consort to the fallen elder The gods are talking.


Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:18 pm
DirtyHand does not play with the lions. but he has entered the maze. the lamb is a scapegoat. DirtyHand knows. So does the Elder.

Shango Says:June 27th, 2005 at 11:26 pm
The Arawaks will not enter the maze unless the cowboys refuse the peace pipe. Follow the music, the lions are not tame. DirtyHand knows, so does the elder.


AND WAS THE 5TH THE SON OF THE ELDER?

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 4:56 pm
The 5th suspect has an alibi so strong that he has everybody baffled.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:00 pm
The 5th suspect was the boyfriend from earlier in the week.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:03 pm
The party-goers said the 5th one was with them. He was the host. How could he have left?



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on August 24, 2008, 05:17:52 PM
Colombo, everything that you are saying makes sense.  I just can't go with Paulass as Natalee's boyfriend from earlier in the week.  The thought is repulsive.  She probably didn't know that Paulass was Urine's father because he had given her the story about being a visiting soccer player from the Netherlands, but I just can't see her getting involved with a man his age and specifically with Paulass.  It does something to my sensibilities.

Natalee was not interested in Paulus at any time. She was a 19 year old girl in what she thought was paradise....Paulus was not on her list.  I know everyone wants it to fit into the Simian verse...but if she had anything at all to do with Paulus...the MB teens would not be able to keep that hidden.  They would have identified him already.  No way Beth would have let that piece of info be hidden under any circumstances.  That one thing could easily have implicated Paulus from the beginning and he would never have been able to manipulate this case as has happened.  Until Beth tells me Paulus is the boyfriend I refuse to believe it.

Based on Shango NH would not necessarily have had to have known

It fascinates me to a degree when focus is on Joran then date rape must be involved

On PVDS, no way NH would have been interested

so we have A+B and then B+C

what about A+C......who switched places!!??


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on August 24, 2008, 05:23:06 PM
Simian is relaying discussions relating to motive, etc......but Shango calls him out for not talking about "the game".....the real underlying motivations

the boyfriend thing may be in relation to actual evidence as opposed to the underlying motivations

I'm inclined to lean towards the Loesge post


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on August 24, 2008, 05:27:21 PM
re: "same hand"
"in their fold"
re-posting-

   (the game, pg 4:  http://www.ca11.uscourts.gov/opinions/ops/200214306.pdf  )
 hand, rules of the game: pg 18
***pg 7-Arawak dirty hand***

"but it was NOT A GAME"


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on August 24, 2008, 06:47:07 PM
Colombo, everything that you are saying makes sense.  I just can't go with Paulass as Natalee's boyfriend from earlier in the week.  The thought is repulsive.  She probably didn't know that Paulass was Urine's father because he had given her the story about being a visiting soccer player from the Netherlands, but I just can't see her getting involved with a man his age and specifically with Paulass.  It does something to my sensibilities.

Natalee was not interested in Paulus at any time. She was a 19 year old girl in what she thought was paradise....Paulus was not on her list.  I know everyone wants it to fit into the Simian verse...but if she had anything at all to do with Paulus...the MB teens would not be able to keep that hidden.  They would have identified him already.  No way Beth would have let that piece of info be hidden under any circumstances.  That one thing could easily have implicated Paulus from the beginning and he would never have been able to manipulate this case as has happened.  Until Beth tells me Paulus is the boyfriend I refuse to believe it.




Lalas you are right on the money.  There is no way that Paulass spent time with Natalee earlier in the week.  I am more convinced than ever that there are more security tapes other than than one that we have seen from the casino.  Armin has to be referring to tapes other than that one.  C&C had tapes, Holiday Inn had tapes, and the jewelry store had tapes.  If I recall, Beth was aware that Natalee was on the security tapes from the jewelry store because I think she went there.  What do you think our chances are of getting a hold of the jewelry store tape - I know, I know.  If she was hanging out with Lorenzo, they must have walked through the HI lobby at some point and were caught on their tapes, too.  I recall that Beth sat and personally looked through all of those tapes.  Somewhere, there was a picture of her sitting in the room watching the screens.  Does anyone have contact with any of the MB kids who could possibly verify that Natalee and Lorenzo were together?  I guess none of them became SM posters.  Where is CAPS when we need him?  Lorenzo has to be the one from earlier in the week and the one who confronted Urine.  I wonder if he confronted Urine because he was jealous or because maybe he was afraid that when Natalee came out from under the drugs the next day, she would be able to identify him (Lorenzo) as having been at the event.  Perhaps he was angry at Urine for bringing her there and possibly exposing him.  If he had been so hung up on her, he would have been with her on her last night in Aruba.


CAPS - if you are lurking, we need some information about Lorenzo being with Natalee.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on August 24, 2008, 08:03:52 PM
p.18      http://www.ca11.uscourts.gov/opinions/ops/200214306.pdf
catch hand
turn out hand

elders of "the game" (pg 4), not just of babylon (arawak!)

"he (5th) has a history of making himself something he's not (Arawak?)"
"a sacrifice will be made to spare the polis" (hand holding it dirty, too!)

the fallen judge and the singing card (DirtyHand) are of the same (catch) hand, but it is dangerous for the arawaks to play it

"DirtyHand knows the babylonians who provided escort after the shivas left (turn out hand)" (He is the link! he holds the real key!)

"why did the girl owe money?"


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on August 24, 2008, 08:04:36 PM
 ::MonkeyEek::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on August 24, 2008, 08:30:41 PM
http://www.ca11.uscourts.gov/opinions/ops/200214306.pdf

pg 5:   "entering the fold"


 Shango Says:
June 30th, 2005 at 2:04 am
DirtyHand is the the Keystone!  (hand holding it dirty, too!)
The lamb is in their fold, and the shivas ("Slanderfoot clan"-the catch hand???).


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on August 25, 2008, 06:35:17 AM

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:29 pm
I did not say an ex. Do you people read? I not into repeating myself.

[he repeats himself] Checkme…check this…and please recheck:Girl comes to Aruba. Meets cool and crazy guy in C@$ino. Goes out with him. He declares that to be the case. Can’t deny it. It’s on tape.   Everybody in the C@$ino knows the group of teens, they have been drinking in there for free the whole week. After a couple of days girl meets another boy in the same C@$ino. Goes out with him.
Simian: This makes first guy really mad. So mad he confronts second boy.
First guy never denies the affair. He knows they know he was with her. However, he has an airtight alibi. Some friends say they were at home with him. Until the morning.
How can this ever be solved?


crs Says: June 24th, 2005 at 3:17 pm
Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 4:50 pm
Some people on the other side of the pond know more than what they are saying. There testimony, there’s security footage, there are witnesses.

Is this why Posner was so angry that the security tape from the casino was released to the media?  Who, besides Urine and Paulass, are on that tape?  Is LVR on that tape or is there another security tape from a few days before that we haven't seen?


Maybe Posner was on the tape himself??  His lawyer said he was not even in Aruba that night. Did we ever get to the bottom of Joshua Posner?

Jossy had to know all about Posner wayyyyyyy before he did that article on him in Diario, so what was the purpose of the article?

In recent postings another Security Company came to light, other than GVC's Daddy's company.  Will have to check my notes.





Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on August 25, 2008, 07:11:51 AM
Colombo, everything that you are saying makes sense.  I just can't go with Paulass as Natalee's boyfriend from earlier in the week.  The thought is repulsive.  She probably didn't know that Paulass was Urine's father because he had given her the story about being a visiting soccer player from the Netherlands, but I just can't see her getting involved with a man his age and specifically with Paulass.  It does something to my sensibilities.

Natalee was not interested in Paulus at any time. She was a 19 year old girl in what she thought was paradise....Paulus was not on her list.  I know everyone wants it to fit into the Simian verse...but if she had anything at all to do with Paulus...the MB teens would not be able to keep that hidden.  They would have identified him already.  No way Beth would have let that piece of info be hidden under any circumstances.  That one thing could easily have implicated Paulus from the beginning and he would never have been able to manipulate this case as has happened.  Until Beth tells me Paulus is the boyfriend I refuse to believe it.




Lalas you are right on the money.  There is no way that Paulass spent time with Natalee earlier in the week.  I am more convinced than ever that there are more security tapes other than than one that we have seen from the casino.  Armin has to be referring to tapes other than that one.  C&C had tapes, Holiday Inn had tapes, and the jewelry store had tapes.  If I recall, Beth was aware that Natalee was on the security tapes from the jewelry store because I think she went there.  What do you think our chances are of getting a hold of the jewelry store tape - I know, I know.  If she was hanging out with Lorenzo, they must have walked through the HI lobby at some point and were caught on their tapes, too.  I recall that Beth sat and personally looked through all of those tapes.  Somewhere, there was a picture of her sitting in the room watching the screens.  Does anyone have contact with any of the MB kids who could possibly verify that Natalee and Lorenzo were together?  I guess none of them became SM posters.  Where is CAPS when we need him?  Lorenzo has to be the one from earlier in the week and the one who confronted Urine.  I wonder if he confronted Urine because he was jealous or because maybe he was afraid that when Natalee came out from under the drugs the next day, she would be able to identify him (Lorenzo) as having been at the event.  Perhaps he was angry at Urine for bringing her there and possibly exposing him.  If he had been so hung up on her, he would have been with her on her last night in Aruba.


CAPS - if you are lurking, we need some information about Lorenzo being with Natalee.


SS…Just checked and Caps has not logged in since the wee hours of August 4th. This is his last post. Not sure that I recall him not checking in for this long before.

Natalee Holloway / Natalee Holloway / Re: Natalee Case Discussion #766 7/22

on: July 31, 2008, 05:28:53 PM


The Answer lies inside these lines

Simian, why was the key (Money) from the Babylons Palace (Dutch Lodge) not used to open the Sumerians Door ?

In Aruba an undertaker can not never open a cemetary but there is a special cemetary that only those that belongs to the LIONS go and only a Grand Master can open it. That is the Lodge Cemetary in Aruba.

We do not need to look far....



Can’t put my hands on it right now, but I have a FP post from one of our Aruban posters, that said suspects were not normally questioned for the first 24 hours that they were detained. This does not jive with J2K or Steve Croes, does with Paulus and with Freddy if indeed he was arrested on 6/11. Those listed on the Log as being interrogated on 6/17…Koen, Sander and Freddy.

LOL…I told Finnfirl she wouldn’t catch up, and here I am still back where SS came back posting…and 38 pages behind in the Index…


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on August 25, 2008, 10:51:32 AM
re: "same hand"
"in their fold"
re-posting-

   (the game, pg 4:  http://www.ca11.uscourts.gov/opinions/ops/200214306.pdf  )
 hand, rules of the game: pg 18
***pg 7-Arawak dirty hand***

"but it was NOT A GAME"

Colombo - thanks for bringing that link back. ::MonkeyCool::

I read it several times this morning and I this is the right path to follow for many reasons:

Joran's and friends nic was 'pimp'.
Codetalkers referenced comics and the report contains 'Superman'.
Codetalker mentions Sir Thomas Moore and there is a Moore in the report.
Codetalker mentions 'the PIMPle is about to pop".

From Page 3:
Pimps perpetrated this myth with their own flamboyant dress, flashy jewelry, and exotic, expensive cars
[Deepak's car that Joran drove, "King of Bling"]

From Page 4:
Both pimps and prostitutes generally referred to their activities as “the game.”
[This is all a “lugubrious game” to them.]
To the pimps, an important component of the game was domination of their females
through endless promises and mentally sapping wordplay, physical violence, and
financial control. The pimps created a system in which their prostitutes were
incapable of supporting themselves or escaping their reliance on the pimp.
[Why did the girl owe money?]   A prostitute lived either in her pimp’s home or in a room at a motel or boarding house paid for by the pimp.Also, the pimp frequently used threats of violence to control his prostitutes, or rewarded his prostitutes with drugs for meeting monetary goals. [The medi-jet] Other times, a pimp dispensed drugs to a prostitute to ensure that she was able to function through the night and into the early morning hours. [which is when she went missing]

[Gods of the cowboys know there was a game in the great house, and so Dirty Hand was discovered]

so is DirtyHand the BIG BAD PIMP?
[The Babylonians know what the girl did earlier in the week. Therein lies the motive.]


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on August 25, 2008, 12:07:57 PM
Colombo,

Do you think that Natalee found a b'friend earlier in the week who was in fact a 'PIMP" and she didn't know it? He took her to the jewelry store to buy her a gift. And then this "PIMP" sees her with Joran (another 'lower on the food chain'  PIMP) and she was now in the middle of something of which she had no clue? Two boys, who happen to be PIMPS and she was clueless?

Are the children of the elders scared of the first PIMP? or of the first PIMP's daddy or pop-pop?

From Page 5:
Despite the pimps best efforts to subjugate their prostitutes, the rules allowed a prostitute to move from one pimp to another by “choosing.” [Did Natalee even know this blue eyed b'friend was a MAJOR PIMP?]  [The game was played in the GREAT HOUSE]

Prostitutes turned tricks in adult clubs, in parking lots, on mattresses behind local businesses, in cars, in motel rooms, or in rooming houses. A prostitute charged $30 to $80 for each trick, and was required to turn over all of this money to her pimp.

This was accomplishedby the prostitute making her intentions known to the new pimp, and then presenting the new pimp with money, a practice known as “breaking bread.” The new pimp would then “serve” the former pimp by notifying him that the prostitute had entered his fold. [The Lamb returned to the fold. Mary Rolled. And the lions played.]

From Page 6:
Choosing another pimp was not without risk for the prostitute. A prostitute could be punished for merely looking at another pimp; this was considered “reckless eyeballing.” Owner pimps apparently were afraid that if their prostitutes were sufficiently impressed with another pimp’s vehicle, clothes, and manner, she might choose a new pimp.

Other rules governed a prostitute’s conduct. She was required to surrender all of the money from her dates; if she did not, she would be guilty of “cuffing.” She was also required to unquestioningly obey her pimp and treat him with respect; if she did not, she was “out of pocket.” At the whim of her pimp, a prostitute was obligated to have sexual intercourse with him, another pimp, or even another prostitute. The pimps sometimes brutally enforced these rules.

Prostitutes endured beatings with belts [Joran's belt that was washed up on the shore],  baseball bats, or “pimp sticks” (two coat hangers wrapped together). The pimps also punished their prostitutes by kicking them ["she fell to the floor and hit her head"],  punching them, forcing them to lay naked on the floor and then have sex with another prostitute while others watched, or “trunking” them by locking them in the trunk of a car [DirtyCop that Dave saw slamming his trunk] to teach them a lesson.

From Page 7:
While all the pimps did not pool their profits from prostitution, some did. And the pimps generally aided each other. Pimps bailed each other’s prostitutes out of jail; mentored younger pimps; swapped prostitutes with each other to get a better
“fit;” warned other pimps and their prostitutes of the presence of police; provided condoms, rides, and rooms for each other’s prostitutes; jointly organized private prostitution parties; recruited juvenile prostitutes together; recruited juvenile prostitutes for each other; divided the track geographically to reduce competition; and traveled out of town together to prostitute females in other cities. 


If Dirty Hand falls, so does Babylon, but too, the Arawak Nation shall suffer.
IF as in 'future" - which means Dirty Hand did NOT fall -- SO DIRTY HAND IS NOT a "FALLEN DIRTY HAND" like the "FALLEN ELDER" and "FALLEN JUDGE".  DIRTY HAND IS STILL AROUND TODAY I GUESS!   (all paths lead back to Posnr?)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 25, 2008, 04:17:26 PM
p.18      http://www.ca11.uscourts.gov/opinions/ops/200214306.pdf
catch hand
turn out hand

elders of "the game" (pg 4), not just of babylon (arawak!)

"he (5th) has a history of making himself something he's not (Arawak?)"
"a sacrifice will be made to spare the polis" (hand holding it dirty, too!)

the fallen judge and the singing card (DirtyHand) are of the same (catch) hand, but it is dangerous for the arawaks to play it

"DirtyHand knows the babylonians who provided escort after the shivas left (turn out hand)" (He is the link! he holds the real key!)

"why did the girl owe money?"

Both Simian and Shango have several fallacies in their prose.  Natalee did not owe money...this thought led Caps to think it was another girl.  When in fact, Shango was only going by what was being reported...in the news.  The story of Natalee owing money and Joran winning it back for her lingered for some time in the media.  It took several interviews for both Beth and Dave to get that story straight. 




"he (5th) has a history of making himself something he's not (Arawak?)"



How did we come up with this being Arawak in this post?  I am confused on that one? What if Simian meant he thinks he's all that and wants to be the stud, but I have watched him and he's all show. I can't figure out the arawak reference.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on August 25, 2008, 05:13:02 PM
Poochy-find the right path     ;-)

[lighting cigar.....]


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on August 25, 2008, 06:43:23 PM
p.18      http://www.ca11.uscourts.gov/opinions/ops/200214306.pdf
catch hand
turn out hand

elders of "the game" (pg 4), not just of babylon (arawak!)

"he (5th) has a history of making himself something he's not (Arawak?)"
"a sacrifice will be made to spare the polis" (hand holding it dirty, too!)

the fallen judge and the singing card (DirtyHand) are of the same (catch) hand, but it is dangerous for the arawaks to play it

"DirtyHand knows the babylonians who provided escort after the shivas left (turn out hand)" (He is the link! he holds the real key!)

"why did the girl owe money?"

Both Simian and Shango have several fallacies in their prose.  Natalee did not owe money...this thought led Caps to think it was another girl.  When in fact, Shango was only going by what was being reported...in the news.  The story of Natalee owing money and Joran winning it back for her lingered for some time in the media.  It took several interviews for both Beth and Dave to get that story straight. 




"he (5th) has a history of making himself something he's not (Arawak?)"



How did we come up with this being Arawak in this post?  I am confused on that one? What if Simian meant he thinks he's all that and wants to be the stud, but I have watched him and he's all show. I can't figure out the arawak reference.


The fallen judge and the singing card are of the same hand




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on August 25, 2008, 06:45:24 PM
Colombo,

Do you think that Natalee found a b'friend earlier in the week who was in fact a 'PIMP" and she didn't know it? He took her to the jewelry store to buy her a gift. And then this "PIMP" sees her with Joran (another 'lower on the food chain'  PIMP) and she was now in the middle of something of which she had no clue? Two boys, who happen to be PIMPS and she was clueless?

Are the children of the elders scared of the first PIMP? or of the first PIMP's daddy or pop-pop?

From Page 5:
Despite the pimps best efforts to subjugate their prostitutes, the rules allowed a prostitute to move from one pimp to another by “choosing.” [Did Natalee even know this blue eyed b'friend was a MAJOR PIMP?]  [The game was played in the GREAT HOUSE]

Prostitutes turned tricks in adult clubs, in parking lots, on mattresses behind local businesses, in cars, in motel rooms, or in rooming houses. A prostitute charged $30 to $80 for each trick, and was required to turn over all of this money to her pimp.

This was accomplishedby the prostitute making her intentions known to the new pimp, and then presenting the new pimp with money, a practice known as “breaking bread.” The new pimp would then “serve” the former pimp by notifying him that the prostitute had entered his fold. [The Lamb returned to the fold. Mary Rolled. And the lions played.]

From Page 6:
Choosing another pimp was not without risk for the prostitute. A prostitute could be punished for merely looking at another pimp; this was considered “reckless eyeballing.” Owner pimps apparently were afraid that if their prostitutes were sufficiently impressed with another pimp’s vehicle, clothes, and manner, she might choose a new pimp.

Other rules governed a prostitute’s conduct. She was required to surrender all of the money from her dates; if she did not, she would be guilty of “cuffing.” She was also required to unquestioningly obey her pimp and treat him with respect; if she did not, she was “out of pocket.” At the whim of her pimp, a prostitute was obligated to have sexual intercourse with him, another pimp, or even another prostitute. The pimps sometimes brutally enforced these rules.

Prostitutes endured beatings with belts [Joran's belt that was washed up on the shore],  baseball bats, or “pimp sticks” (two coat hangers wrapped together). The pimps also punished their prostitutes by kicking them ["she fell to the floor and hit her head"],  punching them, forcing them to lay naked on the floor and then have sex with another prostitute while others watched, or “trunking” them by locking them in the trunk of a car [DirtyCop that Dave saw slamming his trunk] to teach them a lesson.

From Page 7:
While all the pimps did not pool their profits from prostitution, some did. And the pimps generally aided each other. Pimps bailed each other’s prostitutes out of jail; mentored younger pimps; swapped prostitutes with each other to get a better
“fit;” warned other pimps and their prostitutes of the presence of police; provided condoms, rides, and rooms for each other’s prostitutes; jointly organized private prostitution parties; recruited juvenile prostitutes together; recruited juvenile prostitutes for each other; divided the track geographically to reduce competition; and traveled out of town together to prostitute females in other cities. 


If Dirty Hand falls, so does Babylon, but too, the Arawak Nation shall suffer.
IF as in 'future" - which means Dirty Hand did NOT fall -- SO DIRTY HAND IS NOT a "FALLEN DIRTY HAND" like the "FALLEN ELDER" and "FALLEN JUDGE".  DIRTY HAND IS STILL AROUND TODAY I GUESS!   (all paths lead back to Posnr?)



back to babylon, broken but anonymous


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on August 25, 2008, 06:51:05 PM
Poochy:

Does the linked document create another avenue on who, or what, Shango may have been?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on August 25, 2008, 09:44:32 PM
I think it was Elizabeth Cain who said that she had seen Natalee at the Holiday Inn bar with someone earlier in the week and then didn't see her for a day or so.  There has to be something on the Holiday Inn security tapes.  No doubt Ale has those tapes and whoever is at that bar with Natalee is probably the 5th and the boyfirend from earlier in the week,  Does anyone know anything about Elizabeth Cain?  Did she talk to anyone else?  I think that Simian is talking about the Holiday Inn tapes and not the tapes from the casino.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on August 25, 2008, 10:25:55 PM
Poochy-find the right path     ;-)

[lighting cigar.....]

Colombo - Interesting how she so loved the Wiz of Oz, yet being driven down that 'yellow brick' road led to her disappearance. 

So the 'catch' and the 'turn out'....The pimp wannabe and the dirty hands...drugged and taken to the 'Great House' to be kept and with no way to get out. Disappearing down the maze. The Alpoe pimp wannabes wearing dirty bling bling (and don't forget that chicken bone) riding in that pimp mobile. Showering to hang at C&C for 30 minutes - geesh yeah, right...they 'caught' her for the lordship of the GREAT HOUSE. She wanted to see the head loan shark...they did this 20 times before without a problem...
 
Poochy:

Does the linked document create another avenue on who, or what, Shango may have been?
Is this a 'trick' question? Another avenue, meaning a street or an ally? Not quite tuning into your thoughts. Help me out a bit!  ::MonkeyCool::



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on August 25, 2008, 11:22:24 PM
Colombo,

I need to understand the "players".

Is this the "Lordship"? http://scaredmonkeys.com/2006/02/25/michael-posner-upset-over-excelsior-casino-security-tapes-to-abc/

Is the 'Fallen Elder" Jan Van der Straten?"

Is the "Fallen Judge" Bob de nitWit?

Is the 'Arawak King' Ben (voc) King?

Who is DIRTY HAND THEN??? (Jan Van der Straten or Jan the the 'Fallen Elder'?)

Based on Codetakers, Dirty hand:
- Stays hidden, but all are well-fed.
- He must be hidden.
- If cowboys stay, after the sacrifice, everyone see dirty hand.
- If cowboys see dirty hand, many teepees fall. House of Babylon falls. 
- Foundations of house of Babylon will shake harder if Arawak Dirty Hand is revealed.
- Arawaks fear wrath of cowboys for DirtyHand. 
- Babylon will agree to a sacrifice of newer teepee dwellers to prevent the story of dirtyhand being made public.
- Dirtyhand scares arawaks too.
- Babylon needs to allow one sacrifice to keep DirtyHand hidden.
- Babylon scared of DirtyHand.
- Arawaks scared of DirtyHand.
- If DirtyHand discovered, House of Babylon falls, Teepees crushed under great house
- Arawaks want to make cowboys happy. Babylonians want to maintain integrity of Great House. Gods of the cowboys know there was a game in the great house, and so DirtyHand was discovered.
- The sacrifice will be offered before dirty hand sings. He will return to babylon, broken but anonymous.
- The babylonians are to blame. They did not bring DirtyHand into the Tribe! He will go back to babylon broken, after the sacrifice is eaten.
- If DirtyHand sings, sacrifice will still be eaten. 
- Even if you play cards in the house of babylon as an arawak, you still have DirtyHand.
- If DirtyHand comes out of hiding, Babylon will fall and the cowboys will circle the wagons.
- DirtyHand can destroy the Arawaks and Babylon. 
- There are many DirtyHands among the Arawak, and so it has been for centuries.
- DirtyHand is well known
- DirtyHand is alive and well.
- The Arawaks want the truth to come out. As long as DirtyHand is not found.
- DirtyHand is not an Arawak. 
- His lordship is there to preserve Babylon. not the elder. remember dirtyhand.
- DirtyHand is not an Arawak. Many pioneers have settled with the tribe.  
- The card of babylon was already played. If it sings, DirtyHand will bring down the Royal House on top of the Arawak Nation.
- DirtyHand and the fallen judge may not be crucified. the gods are talking.
- DirtyHand walks with the elders. Babylon knows.
- DirtyHand knows the Babylonians that provided escort after the 2 shivas left.
- Are the children of the elders there, or did they flee to Babylon? DirtyHand knows, this is his Power. there will be 46 sacrifices.
- DirtyHand can break the Alibi, he walks all circles.
- If the Alibi is broken by DirtyHand the walls of Babylon will shake.
- You always find forbidden desires in the small houses of Babylon. the girl knew this. Find DirtyHand! He too walked in this house of Babylon. But not to satiate desire. 
- Coverups begin with elders and the founders of the houses of Babylon. Not the minions. DirtyHand knows this.
- DirtyHand is the key. He walks with the elders. He walks in all houses. And he walked with the fallen elder. he was the hidden card that was played. now if he sings, babylon will fall on the arawak nation
- DirtyHand has worked for the elders for a long time.
- Babalu opened a window looking into babylon on his 12:31 A.M. Post  DirtyHand is alive.
- Babalu knew who dirty hand was at half past 12
- DirtyHand walks with the Babylons, the Arawaks and is consort to the fallen elder . The gods are talking
- DirtyHand can bring down all houses. DirtyHand is the key. His reach is long. He walks in all circles. consort to all, except for the gods. He knows the sacrifice is not responsible.
- Thee dice throwers know the maze of the rave and the fly that entered the trap. DirtyHand is the key. He walks in many circles.
- Young Babylonians and Shivas do not build sand castles. DirtyHand knows this. Children of the Elders play in the maze, but DirtyHand is afraid to rave
- The maze offers many hidden desires deflowerings of forbidden fruits. DirtyHand knows. So does the elder. The lamb is a scapegoat.
- DirtyHand has walked through the maze. He knows of the forbidden fruit and the gardeners.
- DirtyHand does not play with the lions. but he has entered the maze. the lamb is a scapegoat. DirtyHand knows. So does the Elder.
- The Arawaks will not enter the maze unless the cowboys refuse the peace pipe. Follow the music, the lions are not tame. DirtyHand knows, so does the elder.
- Mary rolled into the maze to play with lions but it was not a game. the lamb ran bleating afraid to walk through the maze. why don’t the arawaks ambush the lions? The cowboys don’t know. DirtyHand knows, but is afraid of the Arawak Nation. The gods are talking
- Be careful of the lions. DirtyHand does not have them tamed but he can enter the den.
-  The Simian Doppleganger is upset because the arawak nation is hiding the truth from the cowboys. DirtyHand knows. 
-  Lucy spoke at 10:56 # Lucy Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:56 pm  Someone said last night that Dirty Hand was somebody in the police.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on August 25, 2008, 11:43:16 PM
Colombo,

Based on your 'link', do you think that the Babylonians (gambler Joran) traded Natalee to the Arawaks (to pay off a debt he had?)

Arawaks are afraid of being 'caught' with 'dirty hand'. 

His Lordship (Posnr??) will bestow the title (what title?) soon.



Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:22 pm
The babylonians knew it was dangerous to trade among the Arawaks. The way is clouded for the sacrifice. Rules have changed, so has the maze. the way is lost for the pioneers who went to live among the indians. The flames are growing. A sacrifice will be made to spare the police; to spare the teepees. Singing cards have lost their power. Arawaks worried about being caught with dirty hand. His lordship will bestow the title soon….They will save the teepees and the palace, but first The Sacrifice.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Altruist on August 26, 2008, 08:10:33 AM
I am certainly not Columbo but this really nice organization here of the Codetalkers for me represents that DirtyHand, Dirty Hand, dirty hand, dirtyhand all represent INSTITUTIONAL CORRUPTION that is administered by all of those individuals that you listed in their individual administrative positions & although Simiian & Shango posted that there would be a "sacrifice" WE ALL KNOW NOW there was no sacrifice, the predator/predator's would be protected in order to keep the "dirty secrets" on the "down low".

There is NO WAY that I personally can believe that the USA/It's Agencies are not COMPLETELY AWARE OF THIS INSTITUTIONAL CORRUPTION & the only dirty secrets that are indeed secrets only to the STUPID UNPROTECTED/NON-CONNECTED/NON-ELITE AMERICANS who are the actual known SACRIFICES who continue to be encouraged to travel to the PERVERTED DESTINATION of ARUBA.  For political gains it has been deemed as nothing but collaterol damage necessary to maintain the desired political gains that are dirty secrets from the American masses that become the carrots to the horse, per se.

IMO, our State Department takes the lead of the Agencies & the others go along by maintaining silence.  The most recent example that comes to mind is Abu Graib (spelling?), our FBI was fully aware, refused to participate but kept their bloody mouths shut.  State Department, Defense Department & Justice Department were fully well aware at the highest of levels.

WHY????????? = lack of public policy based on sound principles consisting of integrity & purpose sacrificed accordingly for political gains & manipulation by both of the political parties of our country that enable these 3rd world nations to prey on our masses while espousing their working so hard to carry on the business of the American People.  These types exist in every nation but the old adage holds true to persons with character, integrity & humane values that "2 wrongs DO NOT MAKE A RIGHT. WHAT IS WRONG IS WRONG & according to our constitution, which all of the persons employed by our country take an oath to uphold, very few uphold it as they also collect the financial rewards of casting those protections & duties aside out of misdirected loyalty & fear of personal repercussions, which IMO make them COWARDS, regardless of their nationalities.

Disgusting, as I all too often have expressed on these pages of this honorable group that make up Scared Monkeys, regardless of our political affiliations, we seek justice, fairness, character & decent treatment in our quest for the rights of VICTIMS of the opposite values of evil that turn a blinds eye.

IMHO, couldn't hold back this rant.  Thank you for your tolerance.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on August 26, 2008, 08:23:06 AM
I am certainly not Columbo but this really nice organization here of the Codetalkers for me represents that DirtyHand, Dirty Hand, dirty hand, dirtyhand all represent INSTITUTIONAL CORRUPTION that is administered by all of those individuals that you listed in their individual administrative positions & although Simiian & Shango posted that there would be a "sacrifice" WE ALL KNOW NOW there was no sacrifice, the predator/predator's would be protected in order to keep the "dirty secrets" on the "down low".

There is NO WAY that I personally can believe that the USA/It's Agencies are not COMPLETELY AWARE OF THIS INSTITUTIONAL CORRUPTION & the only dirty secrets that are indeed secrets only to the STUPID UNPROTECTED/NON-CONNECTED/NON-ELITE AMERICANS who are the actual known SACRIFICES who continue to be encouraged to travel to the PERVERTED DESTINATION of ARUBA.  For political gains it has been deemed as nothing but collaterol damage necessary to maintain the desired political gains that are dirty secrets from the American masses that become the carrots to the horse, per se.

IMO, our State Department takes the lead of the Agencies & the others go along by maintaining silence.  The most recent example that comes to mind is Abu Graib (spelling?), our FBI was fully aware, refused to participate but kept their bloody mouths shut.  State Department, Defense Department & Justice Department were fully well aware at the highest of levels.

WHY????????? = lack of public policy based on sound principles consisting of integrity & purpose sacrificed accordingly for political gains & manipulation by both of the political parties of our country that enable these 3rd world nations to prey on our masses while espousing their working so hard to carry on the business of the American People.  These types exist in every nation but the old adage holds true to persons with character, integrity & humane values that "2 wrongs DO NOT MAKE A RIGHT. WHAT IS WRONG IS WRONG & according to our constitution, which all of the persons employed by our country take an oath to uphold, very few uphold it as they also collect the financial rewards of casting those protections & duties aside out of misdirected loyalty & fear of personal repercussions, which IMO make them COWARDS, regardless of their nationalities.

Disgusting, as I all too often have expressed on these pages of this honorable group that make up Scared Monkeys, regardless of our political affiliations, we seek justice, fairness, character & decent treatment in our quest for the rights of VICTIMS of the opposite values of evil that turn a blinds eye.

IMHO, couldn't hold back this rant.  Thank you for your tolerance.

Good Morning Altruist!...Rant all you want...LOL

I am convinced that the Powers to be here in the US are fully aware...there are other priorities. This is why they have turned a blind eye. (I sure as heck hope that is the only reason they have done that!)

And this is also why Joran acts as he does...he knows he is untouchable.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Altruist on August 26, 2008, 08:26:27 AM
The Title bestowed = Modus Operandi.         The Show Must Go On.

All will remain as status quo on the Perverted Island of Aruba, the sacrifice was Natalee Holloway, who deserved the full protection of her country.  Natalee Holloway deserved SO MUCH MORE as another talented, needed  light was extinguished by the Dark Side that is allowed to thrive at all cost to what is right.  Aruba is NOT a SAFE DESTINATION for NON PERVERTS.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Altruist on August 26, 2008, 08:36:20 AM
Thanks Mum, well see that blinds eye is totally unjustified.  Whether there are other priorities should not hinder our government from taking the right position when injustice is delivered regarless if the injustice is delivered by our allies or our enemies.  2 Wrongs DO NOT make a Right & it brings upon us SHAME.  It is not an honorable reflection of our Country as a whole.

It plain Pizzes me off to no end.  I will never accept it, NEVER.  It is totally dishonorable.

Thanks for your understanding.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Altruist on August 26, 2008, 08:47:00 AM
Rant continues

& that waste of oxygen JVDS & all others involved in this travesty ARE GOING TO GET THEIRS, it's just a matter of time, if not on this earth than the here after but in ALL PROBABILITY it will be BOTH.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on August 26, 2008, 06:52:03 PM
Poochy:

re-posting-
 (the game, pg 4:  http://www.ca11.uscourts.gov/opinions/ops/200214306.pdf  )
 hand, rules of the game: pg 18
***pg 7-Arawak dirty hand***

dirty hand:
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:01 pm
Arawaks often go to play (the game) in small houses of Babylon with the offspring of the Elders

re-stated:

Babalú Says: June 27th, 2005 at 12:30 am
Concerned: No, I guess he is head of some local official corps. He is the guy that knows everything and that has been in the house of Babylonians NOT seeking pleasure for himself, so Shango says. So maybe he went to search for Natalee and he is the chief of Polis.

DirtyHand=the link, holds real key
Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 12:23 am
Follow the notes
to the poison house
where
the children of the babylonians
and the arawak nation (Arawaks!)
meet, under cover of delusion.
In the maze
the lions which play
shall be found.
The gamblers also took note.
Tell the cowboys!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on August 26, 2008, 06:56:05 PM
Poochy:

trade="play"


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on August 26, 2008, 08:29:36 PM
p.18      http://www.ca11.uscourts.gov/opinions/ops/200214306.pdf
catch hand
turn out hand

elders of "the game" (pg 4), not just of babylon (arawak!)

"he (5th) has a history of making himself something he's not (Arawak?)"
"a sacrifice will be made to spare the polis" (hand holding it dirty, too!)

the fallen judge and the singing card (DirtyHand) are of the same (catch) hand, but it is dangerous for the arawaks to play it

"DirtyHand knows the babylonians who provided escort after the shivas left (turn out hand)" (He is the link! he holds the real key!)

"why did the girl owe money?"

Both Simian and Shango have several fallacies in their prose.  Natalee did not owe money...this thought led Caps to think it was another girl.  When in fact, Shango was only going by what was being reported...in the news.  The story of Natalee owing money and Joran winning it back for her lingered for some time in the media.  It took several interviews for both Beth and Dave to get that story straight. 




"he (5th) has a history of making himself something he's not (Arawak?)"



How did we come up with this being Arawak in this post?  I am confused on that one? What if Simian meant he thinks he's all that and wants to be the stud, but I have watched him and he's all show. I can't figure out the arawak reference.



The arawaks hold the singing cards. They have the babylonian and 2 shivas. But the other card is dirty.
Even if you play cards in the house of babylon as an arawak, you still have DirtyHand. (the card that was played)

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:49 pm
The maze offers many hidden desires
deflowerings of forbidden fruits
DirtyHand knows.
So does the elder.

The lamb is a scapegoat.


Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:18 pm
DirtyHand does not play with the lions
but he has entered the maze
the lamb is a scapegoat
DirtyHand knows
So does the Elder
(doesn't say that elder doesn't play w/ lions)

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:52 pm
DirtyHand has walked through the maze
He knows of the forbidden fruit
and the gardeners (the catch hand)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: sharon on August 26, 2008, 08:30:27 PM
Rant continues

& that waste of oxygen JVDS & all others involved in this travesty ARE GOING TO GET THEIRS, it's just a matter of time, if not on this earth than the here after but in ALL PROBABILITY it will be BOTH.

{{{applause}}}

Thanks for all that.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on August 26, 2008, 09:49:24 PM
Poochy:

trade="play"
Got it --traded like a baseball card, the trade is the real export on this trampoline island. They all know this - arawaks, babylonians, all of them. And if we found this out, their island would go kaput.

5/16/06 the grey whisper said...
We all know the export is not the drugs, texan. Find the real export in the middle of the island and you will find the answers you seek.


Middle of the island = the Hooiberg/haystack. "Look by the haystack in the small hours. They live in the conuco, but they are the only ones who can open the palace doors." (Do the "gardners" live in the conuco)?
 
****
So Dirty Hand walks in all 'houses' and saw Natalee in one of those houses? He is the key? He can identify she was there (unknowingly and unwillingly due to being drugged) and in what house?   Or is he the owner of a house - and has the key to the house?

Deepak said to Joran "...your own father". Was Paulus with JVdStraten (fallen elder) in the same house (while Anita was away?)

Shango Says:June 26th, 2005 at 10:53 pm
DirtyHand is the key. He walks with the elders. He walks in all houses. And he walked with the fallen elder. He was the hidden card that was played. Now if he sings, babylon will fall on the arawak nation.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:58 pm
Arawaks want to make cowboys happy. Babylonians want to maintain integrity of Great House. Gods of the cowboys know there was a game in the great house, and so DirtyHand was discovered. But the sacrifice will be offered before dirty hand sings. He will return to babylon, broken but anonymous.


Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:01 pm
Arawaks often go to play in small houses of Babylon with the offspring of the Elders [THE ONES WHO FLED ARUBA - CROMVORT, WEVER, GOTTENBOS, ETC].  
 
***
So just when I thought the codetalkers reference to 'Babylonian' was gamblers/ca$ino owner I guess it means something else...

http://www.englishforums.com/English/SlangInMattafixSongs/bplvn/post.htm

Anonymous   #160476  Sat, 19 Nov 05 09:10 PM   
I had a look at the lyrics of the song "Big City life" by Mattafix. There are phrases which I can't understand or even if I know their meaning I don't their origin. Who uses them? In what situations?

"Big City Life,
Me try fi get by,
Pressure nah ease up no matter how hard me try.
Big City Life,
Here my heart have no base,
And right now Babylon de pon me case"
The unclear fragments are: me; fi, nah (I guess it means no); de pon me case.
Thanks for your help
 
"Babylon" in Jamaican English is more or less equivalent to the American expession "The Man". "Babylon" has a broad context in Rastafarian and Jamaican thought, that includes all parts of the current political and economic system that are corrupt and intent on fostering inequity and inequality. See: "Babylon System", by Bob Marley on the Survival Album. So in theory, if a Jamaican cop is bent on doing right by the people, he could theoretically not be "Babylon", but a kid who is wearing his trust fund dreadlocks, tooling around town listening to Busta Rhymes, but will be working in Advertising in six years, could be considered a latent "Babylonian". "And we can not let Babylon continue to play games with us" -- Haiku D'etat (Los Dangerous)


so codetalker "Babylon" is Jamaican for "DA MAN" - corruption in the political and economic system. JA BLESS!

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 6:05 pm
Don’t try and hack the Simian. We smoke Nederweed. Genetically enigineered. No battle. The man on the inside will call soon. The confrontation will last all night. The boy’s arrogance will be his downfall. I’m leaving now.

Simian Says: June 25th, 2005 at 7:28 pm
The father [PAULUS] is trapped in a legal check mate. The boy [JORAN] is mutilating his own tongue. He [JORAN] doesn’t want to let the old man [DA MAN] down.


DA MAN = DIRTY HAND?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on August 26, 2008, 10:00:06 PM
p.18      http://www.ca11.uscourts.gov/opinions/ops/200214306.pdf
catch hand
turn out hand

elders of "the game" (pg 4), not just of babylon (arawak!)

"he (5th) has a history of making himself something he's not (Arawak?)"
"a sacrifice will be made to spare the polis" (hand holding it dirty, too!)

the fallen judge and the singing card (DirtyHand) are of the same (catch) hand, but it is dangerous for the arawaks to play it

"DirtyHand knows the babylonians who provided escort after the shivas left (turn out hand)" (He is the link! he holds the real key!)

"why did the girl owe money?"

Both Simian and Shango have several fallacies in their prose.  Natalee did not owe money...this thought led Caps to think it was another girl.  When in fact, Shango was only going by what was being reported...in the news.  The story of Natalee owing money and Joran winning it back for her lingered for some time in the media.  It took several interviews for both Beth and Dave to get that story straight. 




"he (5th) has a history of making himself something he's not (Arawak?)"



How did we come up with this being Arawak in this post?  I am confused on that one? What if Simian meant he thinks he's all that and wants to be the stud, but I have watched him and he's all show. I can't figure out the arawak reference.



The arawaks hold the singing cards. They have the babylonian and 2 shivas. But the other card is dirty.
Even if you play cards in the house of babylon as an arawak, you still have DirtyHand. (the card that was played)

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:49 pm
The maze offers many hidden desires
deflowerings of forbidden fruits
DirtyHand knows.
So does the elder.

The lamb is a scapegoat.


Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:18 pm
DirtyHand does not play with the lions
but he has entered the maze
the lamb is a scapegoat
DirtyHand knows
So does the Elder
(doesn't say that elder doesn't play w/ lions)

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:52 pm
DirtyHand has walked through the maze
He knows of the forbidden fruit
and the gardeners (the catch hand)


Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:52 pm
DirtyHand has walked through the maze
He knows of the forbidden fruit
and the gardeners (the catch hand)


The forbidden fruit = Max Devries
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j32/carpehumor/Max11.png

...and the 8 yr old boy's body they recovered from the dunes...

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2007/03/26/protest-aruba-in-boston-a-summary-from-richard-we-the-people/
see post 121 Carpe Noctem on March 27th, 2007 1:15 pm

and read what the Bradley's think about the 'trade' :
http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/archive.cgi?read=73463



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on August 26, 2008, 10:24:30 PM
two different bars 'Charlie's Bar and Carlos and Charlies'. But while reading Charlie's Bar review it reminded me that there was an upstairs to Carlos & Charlies. Remember Deepak said he "lost" Joran and Natalee and Satish, and Satish said he got a 'missed call' from Deepak. Could they have been upstairs inside C&C? Read about Charlie's Bar... and remember Amy Bradley was 'downstairs' in a bar when she told the marine her name and asked for help --- and then she was told to get 'upstairs'...

ARE THESE BROTHELS UPSTAIRS IN THESE CLUBS? WHICH CLUB IS THE 'GREAT HOUSE'?

http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowUserReviews-g147251-d148238-r5042277-Charlie_s_Bar-Southeast_Coast_Aruba.html

“loved the shrimp but surprised to know we were in a brothel”Charlie's Bar
   
hairpro
md.May 8, 2006
8/10 found this review helpful

We were traveling to Baby beach to enjoy a day of snorkeling.All the way there we kept seeing signs for Charlies bar & grill. If you have ever driven to Myrtle Beach South Carolina you've seen the signs "Pedro says" visit South of the Border.well you know what a disaster that place is ----but you just have to stop and see it. same goes with Charlies signs every couple of miles it got our curiosity up so on the way back we stopped to get something to eat and a cold beer. It 's a small place but clean lots of memorabilia we're taking something to hang up when we go back.......then the owner asked if we would like to go upstairs I looked at him like why?????? He then informed us that it's a brothel We were with another couple and he only wanted the two women to go . the place gives you a lot to talk about when you return home but the owner is definitely a dirty old man. the food is good and the beer is cold

Charlie's Bar Address
Main Street | San Nicolas, Aruba
Tel: (297) 584-5086 Fax: (297) 584-1640


http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowUserReviews-g147248-d619396-r13934262-Carlos_n_Charlie_s-Oranjestad_Aruba.html

Reviews of Carlos 'n Charlie's( 1-3 of 3 )
“Don't Go!”
Carlos 'n Charlie's

Feb 29, 2008
3/3 found this review helpful
My family and I spend a lot of time in Aruba and we love it but I would not give Carlos 'n 'Charlies my business ever again. During a previous trip I mistakenly paid for 2 margaritas with a $100 dollar bill. The bartender was joking and laughing with me and ignored me each time I asked for my change. Finally I got angry and insisted that he give me my change and he said that I had given him a $10 and there was no change (he was laughing while he said this). The funny thing is that 2 of those tall margaritas cost more than $10 so he would not have accepted that amount. I spoke with a police officer who informed me that the staff at Carlos'n'Charlies regularly does this to visitors that they think are coming from the cruise ships because those visitors will not have enough time to argue for their $.

carlos and charlies
West Straat 3-A Oranjestad
Aruba
Tel: 297 582 0355
Fax: 297 582 0275



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 27, 2008, 10:36:39 AM
Rant continues

& that waste of oxygen JVDS & all others involved in this travesty ARE GOING TO GET THEIRS, it's just a matter of time, if not on this earth than the here after but in ALL PROBABILITY it will be BOTH.

Great job, Altruist!  You have nailed it.  The only consolation left in this whole thing is the understanding that everything comes back around.  Some things are on bigger wheels and may take a little longer to get back around...but, they will come back around.  Some way, Some how.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 27, 2008, 12:52:01 PM
I think it was Elizabeth Cain who said that she had seen Natalee at the Holiday Inn bar with someone earlier in the week and then didn't see her for a day or so.  There has to be something on the Holiday Inn security tapes.  No doubt Ale has those tapes and whoever is at that bar with Natalee is probably the 5th and the boyfirend from earlier in the week,  Does anyone know anything about Elizabeth Cain?  Did she talk to anyone else?  I think that Simian is talking about the Holiday Inn tapes and not the tapes from the casino.

They were only there for about 4 days...that includes the day they got there and then the day they left which Natalee was a part of by then...so how can she be with her friend FEB all that time and always with her according to her and be missing with someone else?  It had to be when the group of girls was flirting with Joran and gang on the beach...or was that Freddy and GVC?  I can't remember now..I have too many things on my mind...I need to slow down some.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on August 27, 2008, 08:57:31 PM
Elizabeth Cain


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on August 28, 2008, 01:08:23 AM
Elizabeth Cain


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on August 28, 2008, 01:13:34 AM
Kalpoe v. McGraw, et al.
Case Number: BC3 63401

The following documents are being withheld pursuant to Article 45 of the Code of Criminal Procedure Law of Aruba. Under Article 45, Plaintiffs' Aruban counsel may not produce the contents of this file. Cremer, Kopon, Shaughnessy & Spina, L LC does not have these documents.

This log describes all the documents contained within Aruban counsel's file. Aruban counsel does not have the entire criminal file. They do not have in their possession, custody, or control many of the documents pertaining to the arrest of the other suspects in this case, They also do not have all the documents pertaining to Deepak Kalpoe, as Deepak was originally represented by different counsel.


Name/Title/Description: Interview with Elizabeth Cain
Date: 03102/2006
Pages: 2
File #: 163a-bb-1426-853
Location: Tuscaloosa Offices
Writer/Initiator: Not Stated

http://www.hollowaycase.com/archive/civil_court_docs/arubancounselfile.htm


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on August 28, 2008, 01:16:52 AM
Name: Freddy Alexander Zedan Arambatzis
Date:28 June 2005 / 14:25
Pages: 11
Writer/Initiator: Shaniro Kelly & Haydee Nadal
Description: witness statement

Name: Lorenzo Van Rijn
Date: 28 June 2005 / 17:00
Pages: 2
Writer/Initiator: Giovanni Heyliger
Description: witness statement

http://www.hollowaycase.com/archive/civil_court_docs/arubancounselfile.htm


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on August 28, 2008, 05:24:35 AM
A very helpful and clever monkey directed me to this website...
http://www.bastardly.com/archives/2005/07/23/what-really-happened-to-natalee-holloway

Supposedly, Allyinmiami knew Shango and conversed with Simian and Checkme.  She claims to have been copied on the FP of SM and as a result was banned.  ::MonkeyConfused::  Anyway these are posts made by allyinmiami on another website.  I find some of them very interesting.  She mentions some things that I don't think we weren't aware of in 2005.  Some of the dialogue between she and Stefani is very interesting.
_____________

106. Stefani (Uncertified Bastard)
"Shango Says" is a very interesting Riddle written using that username in June of 2005.Proof of a password to realizing if it is the true composer, "SHANGO" is Allyinmiami. There have been MANY Simian and Shango imposters on the net.
Varied skeptism as to "WHO" Shango really can be. Someone has taken on the username and posted this riddle to possibly tell about WHAT really happened to Natalee, perhaps they were there ? or perhaps they are clearing a conscience, and want to secretly EXPOSE the deep corruption existing on the island of Aruba. Hokey ? I do not think so, nor do MANY others. Interpret it, perhaps, but it would take a lot of work. Constantly rereading it and surfing to locate the meaning behind the hidden clues, fascinating. Do I believe the SHango author KNOWS what happened and WHAT goes on there on that island of Aruba ? Absolutely I do 110 % !!

Read and see. I firmly believe that the answers lie within SHango, don't u too, Columbo ? Give us more !!

http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/?p=1190#comment-25477

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-backroom/1454903/posts?page=181,31

Sunday, November 6th, 2005 @ 2:57pm


Is she referring to the Matty Apts. back in 2005?
118. Stefani (Uncertified Bastard)
10061909~Scubajap reported in a couple of the forums that the first link which shows buildings was NOT what we think. The restaurant there, interesting enough is owned by the stepfather of the K x's.These are located very close to the Sloot's property.These were discussed heavily at the Natalee forum that has shut down for approx. 3 weeks ? now. I do not know. I feel that she was taken to a private party at the home of the 1/2 bro, of Lorenzo Wever. He is under 30 as the psychic said. Under the influence of X would certainly do her in, especially if she was given too large of a dose !

488. ALLYINMIAMI (Uncertified Bastard)
http://members.aol.com/DRoberdeau/NATALEE/NATALEEtimeline.html

i am sure u all have already seen this, but it is a great source. Columbo=several connections. Brickell Bay Drive in MIAMI, is a huge real estate market; very lucrative. In addition to that "PIPKIN" (douglas) was one of the initial buyers when the area was first becoming developed. A (Posner) and Pipkin (nickname) Redbo, were in the Military together. Both placed bets at the track here in Miami, last Spring..on the same race. This seems to be at the approximate time that the VDS were here.
Wednesday, February 22nd, 2006 @ 11:12pm

788. ALLYINMIAMI (Uncertified Bastard)
Stefani that is okay...i understand...I didn't know that anyone was impersonating me...Therefore, i was caught off guard... Thanks for the welcoming...I actually have two questions (for right now) 1) Does this board always take sooo long to load...and is there anywhere else that we can post that in less time consuming.....2)Has anyone heard from checkme?.....Yes, i conversed with SIM too...however, check and i became close (friends)...and then as we commence conversing in greated depth...my e-mail was hacked and his account was closed at aol....I just have been concerned...

Tuesday, December 13th, 2005 @ 12:57pm

Is Ally saying that she was taken from the party location to Lorenzo's house or somewhere else?790. ALLYINMIAMI (Uncertified Bastard)
i think so, Columbo...through the maze......she entered and was taken out back to another High Roller destination or to a place where they would keep her until ready for the next transaction/destination...
Friday, January 13th, 2006 @ 7:29pm










On the same blog post #300 was pretty interesting.......more "gardeners?"


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on August 28, 2008, 06:07:28 AM
Elizabeth Cain

SS...Questions???...

How does Cain know this is a local man?

Is this man the same person as the Hawaiian looking guy?

Who do we know hung around the beach and HI?



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on August 28, 2008, 09:38:27 AM
Elizabeth Cain

SS...Questions???...

How does Cain know this is a local man?

Is this man the same person as the Hawaiian looking guy?

Who do we know hung around the beach and HI?





I don't know Mum.  I think it is very strange that there is no description of the man.  I have dug and dug, but I can't find anything more that just Elizabeth's mention of this man.  This does make me think that he is probably on the Holiday Inn security tapes talking to Natalee, and perhaps these are the tapes that Simian is referring to instead of the casino tape with Paulass.  Elizabeth gave this statement to the FBI in Tuscaloosa.  I can't imagine that they didn't ask for more information or perhaps a composite drawing.  The FBI would have had these resources available in Alabama when she gave her statement.  I have to think that there is more to Elizabeth's statement.  I think that Elizabeth Cain is a very important key to who Natalee was with.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on August 28, 2008, 10:24:34 AM
A very helpful and clever monkey directed me to this website...
http://www.bastardly.com/archives/2005/07/23/what-really-happened-to-natalee-holloway

Supposedly, Allyinmiami knew Shango and conversed with Simian and Checkme.  She claims to have been copied on the FP of SM and as a result was banned.  ::MonkeyConfused::  Anyway these are posts made by allyinmiami on another website.  I find some of them very interesting.  She mentions some things that I don't think we weren't aware of in 2005.  Some of the dialogue between she and Stefani is very interesting.
_____________

106. Stefani (Uncertified Bastard)
"Shango Says" is a very interesting Riddle written using that username in June of 2005.Proof of a password to realizing if it is the true composer, "SHANGO" is Allyinmiami. There have been MANY Simian and Shango imposters on the net.
Varied skeptism as to "WHO" Shango really can be. Someone has taken on the username and posted this riddle to possibly tell about WHAT really happened to Natalee, perhaps they were there ? or perhaps they are clearing a conscience, and want to secretly EXPOSE the deep corruption existing on the island of Aruba. Hokey ? I do not think so, nor do MANY others. Interpret it, perhaps, but it would take a lot of work. Constantly rereading it and surfing to locate the meaning behind the hidden clues, fascinating. Do I believe the SHango author KNOWS what happened and WHAT goes on there on that island of Aruba ? Absolutely I do 110 % !!

Read and see. I firmly believe that the answers lie within SHango, don't u too, Columbo ? Give us more !!

http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/?p=1190#comment-25477

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-backroom/1454903/posts?page=181,31

Sunday, November 6th, 2005 @ 2:57pm


Is she referring to the Matty Apts. back in 2005?
118. Stefani (Uncertified Bastard)
10061909~Scubajap reported in a couple of the forums that the first link which shows buildings was NOT what we think. The restaurant there, interesting enough is owned by the stepfather of the K x's.These are located very close to the Sloot's property.These were discussed heavily at the Natalee forum that has shut down for approx. 3 weeks ? now. I do not know. I feel that she was taken to a private party at the home of the 1/2 bro, of Lorenzo Wever. He is under 30 as the psychic said. Under the influence of X would certainly do her in, especially if she was given too large of a dose !

488. ALLYINMIAMI (Uncertified Bastard)
http://members.aol.com/DRoberdeau/NATALEE/NATALEEtimeline.html

i am sure u all have already seen this, but it is a great source. Columbo=several connections. Brickell Bay Drive in MIAMI, is a huge real estate market; very lucrative. In addition to that "PIPKIN" (douglas) was one of the initial buyers when the area was first becoming developed. A (Posner) and Pipkin (nickname) Redbo, were in the Military together. Both placed bets at the track here in Miami, last Spring..on the same race. This seems to be at the approximate time that the VDS were here.
Wednesday, February 22nd, 2006 @ 11:12pm

788. ALLYINMIAMI (Uncertified Bastard)
Stefani that is okay...i understand...I didn't know that anyone was impersonating me...Therefore, i was caught off guard... Thanks for the welcoming...I actually have two questions (for right now) 1) Does this board always take sooo long to load...and is there anywhere else that we can post that in less time consuming.....2)Has anyone heard from checkme?.....Yes, i conversed with SIM too...however, check and i became close (friends)...and then as we commence conversing in greated depth...my e-mail was hacked and his account was closed at aol....I just have been concerned...

Tuesday, December 13th, 2005 @ 12:57pm

Is Ally saying that she was taken from the party location to Lorenzo's house or somewhere else?790. ALLYINMIAMI (Uncertified Bastard)
i think so, Columbo...through the maze......she entered and was taken out back to another High Roller destination or to a place where they would keep her until ready for the next transaction/destination...
Friday, January 13th, 2006 @ 7:29pm










On the same blog post #300 was pretty interesting.......more "gardeners?"


"how would they tell she was pregnant from DNA of cleaning fluid/chocolate?"

COLOMBO...Great question...just not sure how it fits with the gardeners...Lorenzo's gardeners? ::MonkeyConfused::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on August 28, 2008, 10:26:59 AM


Bringing this over from the Race Junkies thread….You all know how I can’t stand coincidences…take a look at the reported birth date and age for Lorenzo….Around what we have for Freddy, almost to the day IIRC….Some-one confusing Freddy and Lorenzo?

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1291.80


This could be all BS.. I dont know it's from a site called witheet.com..But we are all here to find out the truth so we should look at everything.. Certainly contradicts what we already know about him being arrested and detained for questioning on June 16th 2005 and Jossy telling us he is very close to Joran and has been seen with him often. As well as Jossy telling us it is more than rumor he is Joran's half brother and his reporters confirmed it. As well as Anita VDS telling us LVR is 5 years younger than what LVR really is. This is just a blog report that even contradicts what the DJ Mark Benson was reporting in the video.

Who is Lorenzo Van Rijn?

Within the international media is a true "hunt for the truth" fired on the person of helping Joran van der Sloot. Meanwhile, a new culprit emerged that Joran would have helped to make disappearance of Natalee. The 27 year old Lorenzo van Rijn or also known under the name Jaime Carrasquilla (??). Lorenzo would be an illegitimate son of the father of Joran, Paul van der Sloot. Lorenzo would be raised by a stepfather who had a VW dealership in Aruba. The house of the stepfather to the Jaraweg, anywhere Lorenzo resident, seems to have a basement where the police already clothing of Natalee has found. Lorenzo also appears to be owner of a so-called "cigarette boat". Lorenzo would also be the one that drugs would have preferred that Joran back doorspeelde to Natelee. The sum, this alleged halfbrother Joran have helped to Natalee in the sea to dump. Read further:

So much for the rumors. Sources report that a van Rijn Lorenzo is the son of Paul and one Astrid van Rijn. His parents were once the car Van Rijn Dieselservice BV in Haarlem, before they sold in 1983 and moved to Aruba. According to the Population Lorenzo was born on September 25, 1981 in the Dutch Haarlem. The conscious Lorenzo would by the suicide of his father Paul van Rijn danig be derailed. The public prosecutor in Aruba will not confirm that Lorenzo van Rijn in the Holloway record and prevents but would confirm that a man with a similar name for violations only of the Opiumwet in their file. The story of Natalee Holloway of clothing found in a house on Aruba, the spokesperson of the Aruban public prosecutor off as the biggest nonsense.

Despite these stiff jaws of the Public Ministry has Witheet the information provided (copy ugotovitve) adopted on June 28, 2005, Lorenzo van Rijn around 17:00 pm local time in the Holloway case has been interrogated by verbalisant GC Heijliger. In this statement to the police van Rijn Lorenzo suggests that he Joran van der Sloot and his two friends Hindoestanen do not know, has never seen or spoken with it. He also shows no science to talk about Natalee Holloway and was at the time of her disappearance home.

Peter R. De Vries also responded to the rumours about Lorenzo van Rijn: in order for him moverende reasons he is despite that the name and background of Lorenzo van Rijn had not gone further with this track. From the side of the family Van der Sloot, and especially Paul van der Sloot about his alleged paternity Lorenza van Rijn, to Witheet confirmed that Lorenzo not a child to him or someone else within the family Van der Sloot. With voorstaande seems to be ontzenuwd rumours.

http://witheet.com/misdaad/who-lorenzo-van-rijn
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote from: caesu on February 14, 2008, 01:21:14 AM
Quote from: caesu on February 14, 2008, 01:20:26 AM
From Caesu
*******, i can confirm without having read a word this is all BS.
Steve Brown writes this crap and he has had a long time feud with Peter R. de Vries.

in this clip Steve Brown is attacking Peter R. de Vries:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGxxBt5uZYY

more background, but i am not even spending time on it:
http://www.nrc.nl/W2/Nieuws/1997/10/02/Rtv/01.html


 really shouldn't spend time on witheet or steve brown.
it is al misinformation. he would love if dutchies start doubting peter r. de vries.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on August 28, 2008, 11:03:30 AM
Suppose I should explain where I was going with Lorenzo’s birth date, sorry didn’t mean to be cryptic…LOL

We have a 24 year old Lorenzo – in 2005.

In 2005 we had a 24 year old casino worker Lorenzo Wever, later to be changed to a 19 year old Guido Wever.

We have been told by Aruban poster’s that Lorenzo was questioned earlier in the week of June 10th. Only Guido shows up early on the log for that week before J2K were arrested.

We have been told that Lorenzo has a basement, that Lorenzo has Raves. Jacobs told Dave he had nothing to do with Natalee’s case. We have been told lots of things by these posters that fit Simian’s 5th. Suspect.

The flurry of activity around the Zedan/Arambatzis/Rodriguez names a while back, coincidently when we were posting about them, and all the posed pics of Freddy, not to mention the friends all being changed on tickle sites and new sites being made up before both the June 9th arrests and the August arrests, as well as the confusion as to where Freddy lived, his Dad dying in Venezuela and his mom’s activity on the Chamber records tells me Freddy is a non player in all this. Not forgetting either he was secretly released from jail, not 1 pic and not even a statement to show for his days in jail.

Even Jossy didn’t tell us about “Freddy”!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on August 28, 2008, 11:09:36 AM
A very helpful and clever monkey directed me to this website...
http://www.bastardly.com/archives/2005/07/23/what-really-happened-to-natalee-holloway

Supposedly, Allyinmiami knew Shango and conversed with Simian and Checkme.  She claims to have been copied on the FP of SM and as a result was banned.  ::MonkeyConfused::  Anyway these are posts made by allyinmiami on another website.  I find some of them very interesting.  She mentions some things that I don't think we weren't aware of in 2005.  Some of the dialogue between she and Stefani is very interesting.
_____________

106. Stefani (Uncertified Bastard)
"Shango Says" is a very interesting Riddle written using that username in June of 2005.Proof of a password to realizing if it is the true composer, "SHANGO" is Allyinmiami. There have been MANY Simian and Shango imposters on the net.
Varied skeptism as to "WHO" Shango really can be. Someone has taken on the username and posted this riddle to possibly tell about WHAT really happened to Natalee, perhaps they were there ? or perhaps they are clearing a conscience, and want to secretly EXPOSE the deep corruption existing on the island of Aruba. Hokey ? I do not think so, nor do MANY others. Interpret it, perhaps, but it would take a lot of work. Constantly rereading it and surfing to locate the meaning behind the hidden clues, fascinating. Do I believe the SHango author KNOWS what happened and WHAT goes on there on that island of Aruba ? Absolutely I do 110 % !!

Read and see. I firmly believe that the answers lie within SHango, don't u too, Columbo ? Give us more !!

http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/?p=1190#comment-25477

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-backroom/1454903/posts?page=181,31

Sunday, November 6th, 2005 @ 2:57pm


Is she referring to the Matty Apts. back in 2005?
118. Stefani (Uncertified Bastard)
10061909~Scubajap reported in a couple of the forums that the first link which shows buildings was NOT what we think. The restaurant there, interesting enough is owned by the stepfather of the K x's.These are located very close to the Sloot's property.These were discussed heavily at the Natalee forum that has shut down for approx. 3 weeks ? now. I do not know. I feel that she was taken to a private party at the home of the 1/2 bro, of Lorenzo Wever. He is under 30 as the psychic said. Under the influence of X would certainly do her in, especially if she was given too large of a dose !

488. ALLYINMIAMI (Uncertified Bastard)
http://members.aol.com/DRoberdeau/NATALEE/NATALEEtimeline.html

i am sure u all have already seen this, but it is a great source. Columbo=several connections. Brickell Bay Drive in MIAMI, is a huge real estate market; very lucrative. In addition to that "PIPKIN" (douglas) was one of the initial buyers when the area was first becoming developed. A (Posner) and Pipkin (nickname) Redbo, were in the Military together. Both placed bets at the track here in Miami, last Spring..on the same race. This seems to be at the approximate time that the VDS were here.
Wednesday, February 22nd, 2006 @ 11:12pm

788. ALLYINMIAMI (Uncertified Bastard)
Stefani that is okay...i understand...I didn't know that anyone was impersonating me...Therefore, i was caught off guard... Thanks for the welcoming...I actually have two questions (for right now) 1) Does this board always take sooo long to load...and is there anywhere else that we can post that in less time consuming.....2)Has anyone heard from checkme?.....Yes, i conversed with SIM too...however, check and i became close (friends)...and then as we commence conversing in greated depth...my e-mail was hacked and his account was closed at aol....I just have been concerned...

Tuesday, December 13th, 2005 @ 12:57pm

Is Ally saying that she was taken from the party location to Lorenzo's house or somewhere else?790. ALLYINMIAMI (Uncertified Bastard)
i think so, Columbo...through the maze......she entered and was taken out back to another High Roller destination or to a place where they would keep her until ready for the next transaction/destination...
Friday, January 13th, 2006 @ 7:29pm










On the same blog post #300 was pretty interesting.......more "gardeners?"


"how would they tell she was pregnant from DNA of cleaning fluid/chocolate?"

COLOMBO...Great question...just not sure how it fits with the gardeners...Lorenzo's gardeners? ::MonkeyConfused::


motive, premeditation......who did they garden for? when? how long has the maze been open?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on August 28, 2008, 11:10:43 AM
was that post # 300? I must have the wrong #.......was a different one I meant to reference, but I am not a registered user


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on August 28, 2008, 11:12:32 AM
Suppose I should explain where I was going with Lorenzo’s birth date, sorry didn’t mean to be cryptic…LOL

We have a 24 year old Lorenzo – in 2005.

In 2005 we had a 24 year old casino worker Lorenzo Wever, later to be changed to a 19 year old Guido Wever.

We have been told by Aruban poster’s that Lorenzo was questioned earlier in the week of June 10th. Only Guido shows up early on the log for that week before J2K were arrested.

We have been told that Lorenzo has a basement, that Lorenzo has Raves. Jacobs told Dave he had nothing to do with Natalee’s case. We have been told lots of things by these posters that fit Simian’s 5th. Suspect.

The flurry of activity around the Zedan/Arambatzis/Rodriguez names a while back, coincidently when we were posting about them, and all the posed pics of Freddy, not to mention the friends all being changed on tickle sites and new sites being made up before both the June 9th arrests and the August arrests, as well as the confusion as to where Freddy lived, his Dad dying in Venezuela and his mom’s activity on the Chamber records tells me Freddy is a non player in all this. Not forgetting either he was secretly released from jail, not 1 pic and not even a statement to show for his days in jail.

Even Jossy didn’t tell us about “Freddy”!



"the important others were the ones who supported the alibi"

"who's framing who?" (if he's done it in the past, he must have done it this time???)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on August 28, 2008, 11:17:28 AM
Suppose I should explain where I was going with Lorenzo’s birth date, sorry didn’t mean to be cryptic…LOL

We have a 24 year old Lorenzo – in 2005.

In 2005 we had a 24 year old casino worker Lorenzo Wever, later to be changed to a 19 year old Guido Wever.

We have been told by Aruban poster’s that Lorenzo was questioned earlier in the week of June 10th. Only Guido shows up early on the log for that week before J2K were arrested.

We have been told that Lorenzo has a basement, that Lorenzo has Raves. Jacobs told Dave he had nothing to do with Natalee’s case. We have been told lots of things by these posters that fit Simian’s 5th. Suspect.

The flurry of activity around the Zedan/Arambatzis/Rodriguez names a while back, coincidently when we were posting about them, and all the posed pics of Freddy, not to mention the friends all being changed on tickle sites and new sites being made up before both the June 9th arrests and the August arrests, as well as the confusion as to where Freddy lived, his Dad dying in Venezuela and his mom’s activity on the Chamber records tells me Freddy is a non player in all this. Not forgetting either he was secretly released from jail, not 1 pic and not even a statement to show for his days in jail.

Even Jossy didn’t tell us about “Freddy”!



After all posts relating to fifth suspect:

Shango: "Who else plays in the orchestra? A babylonian......"

Shango: "He [DirtyHand] was the hidden card that was played [by PVDS]"

Shango: "DirtyHand knows, so does the elder......"

Shango: "The fallen judge and the singing card are of the same hand......"

Shango: "hand holding it [singing card] dirty too"

Shango: He [DH] walked [released?] with the fallen elder"


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on August 28, 2008, 11:23:06 AM
Mum:

That post was #205, sorry.........


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on August 28, 2008, 08:54:02 PM
I am wondering why Elizabeth Cain described the local person as a "man" and not a guy who would maybe be close to Natalee's age.  I don't know many 18 year olds who describe other 18 year old males as "men".  The male that Natalee was with at the Holiday Inn was obviously older than Elizabeth.  Where are the Holiday Inn security tapes?????  Where is Elizabeth's description of this person?????


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 28, 2008, 11:03:58 PM
I am wondering why Elizabeth Cain described the local person as a "man" and not a guy who would maybe be close to Natalee's age.  I don't know many 18 year olds who describe other 18 year old males as "men".  The male that Natalee was with at the Holiday Inn was obviously older than Elizabeth.  Where are the Holiday Inn security tapes?????  Where is Elizabeth's description of this person?????

There isn't one...there is a reason for that....they know who it is already and they won't say...the FBI...I mean.  Lorenzo is an older looking man...and so is Freddy.  Elizabeth would be thinking in comparison to Joran who was around her age.  We will never know for sure.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on August 28, 2008, 11:13:19 PM
Elizabeth Cain, if you are out there please contact us.  We need your help.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on August 29, 2008, 06:16:05 AM
Kalpoe v. McGraw, et al.
Case Number: BC3 63401

The following documents are being withheld pursuant to Article 45 of the Code of Criminal Procedure Law of Aruba. Under Article 45, Plaintiffs' Aruban counsel may not produce the contents of this file. Cremer, Kopon, Shaughnessy & Spina, L LC does not have these documents.

This log describes all the documents contained within Aruban counsel's file. Aruban counsel does not have the entire criminal file. They do not have in their possession, custody, or control many of the documents pertaining to the arrest of the other suspects in this case, They also do not have all the documents pertaining to Deepak Kalpoe, as Deepak was originally represented by different counsel.


Name/Title/Description: Interview with Elizabeth Cain
Date: 03102/2006
Pages: 2
File #: 163a-bb-1426-853
Location: Tuscaloosa Offices
Writer/Initiator: Not Stated

http://www.hollowaycase.com/archive/civil_court_docs/arubancounselfile.htm


SS...School, maybe?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on August 29, 2008, 06:45:27 AM
Mum:

That post was #205, sorry.........




#205

205. Tom (Uncertified Bastard)
I've known the band Dicemen for a while (musically) and they do have a "dangerous" name around here. Wrecking hotels and backstages, stealing, fighting, drugs and alcohol abuse, etc.
Though I seriously doubt they got anything to do with this. As far as I know they never were in Aruba. But if you search a little, you could definately find a couple of newsarticles about this bands doings.
I remember also a missing girl in a town called Dordrecht after a show they played. According to a news article the Dicemen took her with them. I don't know how this story ends, there never was a follow up as far as I know...
Still, they DO rock! :-)
Friday, December 9th, 2005 @ 11:40am


COLOMBO…I recall reading waaayyyyyy back in the old LCDs discussions about the Dicemen.  Also recall I googled and googled and could not place them in Aruba. Did this again not too long back.

With that in mind…And your clue about the gardeners…Could the “Dicemen” have been just meant another band, maybe the one from the Holiday Inn? Or can you place the Dicemen in Aruba at that time…TIA

Hmmmmmmm…Would expect Simian to have heard of the actual band Dicemen…Shango????

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:37 pm
The DiceMen must be questioned.
They to go to the Music and enter the same Maze
Mary who was not a virgin entered
The DiceMen ROLLED
Mary ROLLED


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on August 29, 2008, 07:56:04 AM
doesn't mean involved directly in this (NH) case

enter the same maze......same players......different occasion....same or different location

why do the leave the maze open (20 times before)

establishes premeditation......remember, they have a suspect






Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on August 29, 2008, 07:56:55 AM
maybe the Dordrecht incident needs to be explored further


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on August 29, 2008, 07:58:28 AM
same maze?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on August 29, 2008, 08:10:37 AM
Suppose I should explain where I was going with Lorenzo’s birth date, sorry didn’t mean to be cryptic…LOL

We have a 24 year old Lorenzo – in 2005.

In 2005 we had a 24 year old casino worker Lorenzo Wever, later to be changed to a 19 year old Guido Wever.

We have been told by Aruban poster’s that Lorenzo was questioned earlier in the week of June 10th. Only Guido shows up early on the log for that week before J2K were arrested.

We have been told that Lorenzo has a basement, that Lorenzo has Raves. Jacobs told Dave he had nothing to do with Natalee’s case. We have been told lots of things by these posters that fit Simian’s 5th. Suspect.

The flurry of activity around the Zedan/Arambatzis/Rodriguez names a while back, coincidently when we were posting about them, and all the posed pics of Freddy, not to mention the friends all being changed on tickle sites and new sites being made up before both the June 9th arrests and the August arrests, as well as the confusion as to where Freddy lived, his Dad dying in Venezuela and his mom’s activity on the Chamber records tells me Freddy is a non player in all this. Not forgetting either he was secretly released from jail, not 1 pic and not even a statement to show for his days in jail.

Even Jossy didn’t tell us about “Freddy”!



"the important others were the ones who supported the alibi"

"who's framing who?" (if he's done it in the past, he must have done it this time???)

Merian Ernest Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 5:49 pm Post subject: Who framed who?
Take a close look at the famous picture.

Deepak, Joran and Satish at C&C. Whose hand is on Satish's shoulder? Take another look.
A really good look.

It can never be the hand of any of the three.

Merian Ernest Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 4:07 pm Post subject: The mysterious hand...
See the hand. On the infamous picture in C&C. The boy in the middle and the Hindus on each
side.

Whose hand is on the shoulder of the Hindu on he left? Somebody is missing on this picture.
Maybe somebody was placed on this picture?

It seems more people are vanishing in this case.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on August 29, 2008, 08:15:16 AM
Mum:

That post was #205, sorry.........




#205

205. Tom (Uncertified Bastard)
I've known the band Dicemen for a while (musically) and they do have a "dangerous" name around here. Wrecking hotels and backstages, stealing, fighting, drugs and alcohol abuse, etc.
Though I seriously doubt they got anything to do with this. As far as I know they never were in Aruba. But if you search a little, you could definately find a couple of newsarticles about this bands doings.
I remember also a missing girl in a town called Dordrecht after a show they played. According to a news article the Dicemen took her with them. I don't know how this story ends, there never was a follow up as far as I know...
Still, they DO rock! :-)
Friday, December 9th, 2005 @ 11:40am


COLOMBO…I recall reading waaayyyyyy back in the old LCDs discussions about the Dicemen.  Also recall I googled and googled and could not place them in Aruba. Did this again not too long back.

With that in mind…And your clue about the gardeners…Could the “Dicemen” have been just meant another band, maybe the one from the Holiday Inn? Or can you place the Dicemen in Aruba at that time…TIA

Hmmmmmmm…Would expect Simian to have heard of the actual band Dicemen…Shango????

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:37 pm
The DiceMen must be questioned.
They to go to the Music and enter the same Maze
Mary who was not a virgin entered
The DiceMen ROLLED
Mary ROLLED



ROLLED=high rolled? did the Dicemen owe somebody $? babylonians perhaps?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on August 29, 2008, 08:38:53 AM
 ::MonkeyHaHa::

I need lots of coffee...

The Dicemen owed money to a casino...

But are we really looking at the band called Dicemen or just a band? If it is different players why investigate the previous incident further...

Before that you say: same players...same maze, but doesn't mean directly involved in NH case...

See I can't even put my thoughts in order ::MonkeyConfused::

Did I ever post the post from Finn's thread that Freddy played in a band at the HI? ::MonkeyLaugh::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on August 29, 2008, 08:44:36 AM
Mum:

That post was #205, sorry.........


#205

205. Tom (Uncertified Bastard)
I've known the band Dicemen for a while (musically) and they do have a "dangerous" name around here. Wrecking hotels and backstages, stealing, fighting, drugs and alcohol abuse, etc.
Though I seriously doubt they got anything to do with this. As far as I know they never were in Aruba. But if you search a little, you could definately find a couple of newsarticles about this bands doings.
I remember also a missing girl in a town called Dordrecht after a show they played. According to a news article the Dicemen took her with them. I don't know how this story ends, there never was a follow up as far as I know...
Still, they DO rock! :-)
Friday, December 9th, 2005 @ 11:40am


COLOMBO…I recall reading waaayyyyyy back in the old LCDs discussions about the Dicemen.  Also recall I googled and googled and could not place them in Aruba. Did this again not too long back.

With that in mind…And your clue about the gardeners…Could the “Dicemen” have been just meant another band, maybe the one from the Holiday Inn? Or can you place the Dicemen in Aruba at that time…TIA

Hmmmmmmm…Would expect Simian to have heard of the actual band Dicemen…Shango????

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:37 pm
The DiceMen must be questioned.
They to go to the Music and enter the same Maze
Mary who was not a virgin entered
The DiceMen ROLLED
Mary ROLLED



ROLLED=high rolled? did the Dicemen owe somebody $? babylonians perhaps?

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:37 pm [/b]
The DiceMen must be questioned.
They to go to the Music and enter the same Maze
Mary who was not a virgin entered
The DiceMen ROLLED
Mary ROLLED


The "MUSIC" could be Soul Beach Music Festival.

There were so many boats in the water for the SBMF based on pic I saw of the event in Aruba in 2005. I also recall early posts stating how mad the organizers were because they could not charge those in the water in boats for attending SBMF.  Also with all these boats in the water, how could ALE say they moniter each and every boat?

The organizer of SBMF was "SINBAD" and SINBAD's real name is David Adkins (only "David" got out alive perhaps?).

The name of David Adkins (SINBAD) production studio is (drum roll) DAVID AND GOLIATH.

Remember, there was an Aru-Bay video entitled DAVID AND GOLIATH that showed a large cruise ship heading one way, and a very small boat going the opposite direction, and mid-movie the boats meet, as if a handoff is being made. That movie always reminded me of Amy Bradley's demise...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on August 29, 2008, 08:57:22 AM
::MonkeyHaHa::

I need lots of coffee...

The Dicemen owed money to a casino...

But are we really looking at the band called Dicemen or just a band? If it is different players why investigate the previous incident further...

Before that you say: same players...same maze, but doesn't mean directly involved in NH case...

See I can't even put my thoughts in order ::MonkeyConfused::

Did I ever post the post from Finn's thread that Freddy played in a band at the HI? ::MonkeyLaugh::

the maze has forbidden fruit and gardeners
other "rollers" talk  (rock 'n' rollers)

rock 'n' rollers = gardeners too
ref: Amy Bradley situation


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on August 29, 2008, 09:00:50 AM
"....twenty times before and nothing like this has ever happened...."

or has it.........?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on August 29, 2008, 09:02:43 AM
Mum:

That post was #205, sorry.........


#205

205. Tom (Uncertified Bastard)
I've known the band Dicemen for a while (musically) and they do have a "dangerous" name around here. Wrecking hotels and backstages, stealing, fighting, drugs and alcohol abuse, etc.
Though I seriously doubt they got anything to do with this. As far as I know they never were in Aruba. But if you search a little, you could definately find a couple of newsarticles about this bands doings.
I remember also a missing girl in a town called Dordrecht after a show they played. According to a news article the Dicemen took her with them. I don't know how this story ends, there never was a follow up as far as I know...
Still, they DO rock! :-)
Friday, December 9th, 2005 @ 11:40am


COLOMBO…I recall reading waaayyyyyy back in the old LCDs discussions about the Dicemen.  Also recall I googled and googled and could not place them in Aruba. Did this again not too long back.

With that in mind…And your clue about the gardeners…Could the “Dicemen” have been just meant another band, maybe the one from the Holiday Inn? Or can you place the Dicemen in Aruba at that time…TIA

Hmmmmmmm…Would expect Simian to have heard of the actual band Dicemen…Shango????

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:37 pm
The DiceMen must be questioned.
They to go to the Music and enter the same Maze
Mary who was not a virgin entered
The DiceMen ROLLED
Mary ROLLED



ROLLED=high rolled? did the Dicemen owe somebody $? babylonians perhaps?

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:37 pm [/b]
The DiceMen must be questioned.
They to go to the Music and enter the same Maze
Mary who was not a virgin entered
The DiceMen ROLLED
Mary ROLLED


The "MUSIC" could be Soul Beach Music Festival.

There were so many boats in the water for the SBMF based on pic I saw of the event in Aruba in 2005. I also recall early posts stating how mad the organizers were because they could not charge those in the water in boats for attending SBMF.  Also with all these boats in the water, how could ALE say they moniter each and every boat?

The organizer of SBMF was "SINBAD" and SINBAD's real name is David Adkins (only "David" got out alive perhaps?).

The name of David Adkins (SINBAD) production studio is (drum roll) DAVID AND GOLIATH.

Remember, there was an Aru-Bay video entitled DAVID AND GOLIATH that showed a large cruise ship heading one way, and a very small boat going the opposite direction, and mid-movie the boats meet, as if a handoff is being made. That movie always reminded me of Amy Bradley's demise...


Interesting Poochy...vaguely remember Sinbad productions and may have even googled it...do we have any more info on him?

Don't remember the Aru-bay vid, but have not watched them in forever...that thought sent shivers down my spine?

I have often wondered how many other's have "disappeared"...maybe didn't have close family contact and their families have no idea they even went out of the States. It's possible!

We have lost contact with my half-sister...not been seen for 5 years...she could be anywhere!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on August 29, 2008, 09:06:38 AM
and it seems if the crew isn't in the victims cabin (throwing him overboard), the victims are (passed out) near the officer's quarters


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on August 29, 2008, 09:19:22 AM
Suppose I should explain where I was going with Lorenzo’s birth date, sorry didn’t mean to be cryptic…LOL

We have a 24 year old Lorenzo – in 2005.

In 2005 we had a 24 year old casino worker Lorenzo Wever, later to be changed to a 19 year old Guido Wever.

We have been told by Aruban poster’s that Lorenzo was questioned earlier in the week of June 10th. Only Guido shows up early on the log for that week before J2K were arrested.

We have been told that Lorenzo has a basement, that Lorenzo has Raves. Jacobs told Dave he had nothing to do with Natalee’s case. We have been told lots of things by these posters that fit Simian’s 5th. Suspect.

The flurry of activity around the Zedan/Arambatzis/Rodriguez names a while back, coincidently when we were posting about them, and all the posed pics of Freddy, not to mention the friends all being changed on tickle sites and new sites being made up before both the June 9th arrests and the August arrests, as well as the confusion as to where Freddy lived, his Dad dying in Venezuela and his mom’s activity on the Chamber records tells me Freddy is a non player in all this. Not forgetting either he was secretly released from jail, not 1 pic and not even a statement to show for his days in jail.

Even Jossy didn’t tell us about “Freddy”!


Mum, there is yet another Lorenzo:

Jacobus Lorenzo "David" Wever/Weaver, the Ca$ino Manager (with Posner as Ca$ino owner)

See Obsevers post at http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2612.460
Lots of good info there. It should be brought over here.

And if IRC, this Lorenzo "Larry" David Weaver was working at the Holiday Inn sunspree resort in Jamaica when Claudia went missing  - I can't find the link now, but I believe he was the food and beverage manager there. I'll keep looking for the link.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/08/02/earlyshow/main713376.shtml
   "...(CBS) Natalee Holloway's story bears a striking
   similarity to the disappearance of another woman,
   29-year-old travel magazine editor Claudia Kirschhoch,
   who vanished in May 2000 in Negril, Jamaica.
   Claudia has never been found.


 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on August 29, 2008, 09:38:13 AM
Suppose I should explain where I was going with Lorenzo’s birth date, sorry didn’t mean to be cryptic…LOL

We have a 24 year old Lorenzo – in 2005.

In 2005 we had a 24 year old casino worker Lorenzo Wever, later to be changed to a 19 year old Guido Wever.

We have been told by Aruban poster’s that Lorenzo was questioned earlier in the week of June 10th. Only Guido shows up early on the log for that week before J2K were arrested.




We have been told that Lorenzo has a basement, that Lorenzo has Raves. Jacobs told Dave he had nothing to do with Natalee’s case. We have been told lots of things by these posters that fit Simian’s 5th. Suspect.

The flurry of activity around the Zedan/Arambatzis/Rodriguez names a while back, coincidently when we were posting about them, and all the posed pics of Freddy, not to mention the friends all being changed on tickle sites and new sites being made up before both the June 9th arrests and the August arrests, as well as the confusion as to where Freddy lived, his Dad dying in Venezuela and his mom’s activity on the Chamber records tells me Freddy is a non player in all this. Not forgetting either he was secretly released from jail, not 1 pic and not even a statement to show for his days in jail.

Even Jossy didn’t tell us about “Freddy”!


Mum, there is yet another Lorenzo:

Jacobus Lorenzo "David" Wever/Weaver, the Ca$ino Manager (with Posner as Ca$ino owner)

See Obsevers post at http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2612.460
Lots of good info there. It should be brought over here.

And if IRC, this Lorenzo "Larry" David Weaver was working at the Holiday Inn sunspree resort in Jamaica when Claudia went missing  - I can't find the link now, but I believe he was the food and beverage manager there. I'll keep looking for the link.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/08/02/earlyshow/main713376.shtml
   "...(CBS) Natalee Holloway's story bears a striking
   similarity to the disappearance of another woman,
   29-year-old travel magazine editor Claudia Kirschhoch,
   who vanished in May 2000 in Negril, Jamaica.
   Claudia has never been found.


 


Thanks Poochy...I was looking for that obit...we were discussing him a few weeks back...we have talked about him before nd I have some notes on him.

All the name confusion right there...Guido/Lorenzo/David Wever...IIRC Guido's brother is David Wever...so who is the 24 year old casino worker?

My money is NOT on Guido or Jacobus!

Posting for future reference...

Is this who you were talking about? Is this supposed to be the casino Manager at the Excelsior when Natalee dissapeared?
Jacobus Lorenzo Wever
08 Jan 1936 - 25 Mar 2006
http://www.mementomori.net/06069.html


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on August 29, 2008, 11:07:22 AM
Suppose I should explain where I was going with Lorenzo’s birth date, sorry didn’t mean to be cryptic…LOL

We have a 24 year old Lorenzo – in 2005.

In 2005 we had a 24 year old casino worker Lorenzo Wever, later to be changed to a 19 year old Guido Wever.

We have been told by Aruban poster’s that Lorenzo was questioned earlier in the week of June 10th. Only Guido shows up early on the log for that week before J2K were arrested.

We have been told that Lorenzo has a basement, that Lorenzo has Raves. Jacobs told Dave he had nothing to do with Natalee’s case. We have been told lots of things by these posters that fit Simian’s 5th. Suspect.

The flurry of activity around the Zedan/Arambatzis/Rodriguez names a while back, coincidently when we were posting about them, and all the posed pics of Freddy, not to mention the friends all being changed on tickle sites and new sites being made up before both the June 9th arrests and the August arrests, as well as the confusion as to where Freddy lived, his Dad dying in Venezuela and his mom’s activity on the Chamber records tells me Freddy is a non player in all this. Not forgetting either he was secretly released from jail, not 1 pic and not even a statement to show for his days in jail.

Even Jossy didn’t tell us about “Freddy”!


Mum, there is yet another Lorenzo:

Jacobus Lorenzo "David" Wever/Weaver, the Ca$ino Manager (with Posner as Ca$ino owner)

See Obsevers post at http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2612.460
Lots of good info there. It should be brought over here.

And if IRC, this Lorenzo "Larry" David Weaver was working at the Holiday Inn sunspree resort in Jamaica when Claudia went missing  - I can't find the link now, but I believe he was the food and beverage manager there. I'll keep looking for the link.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/08/02/earlyshow/main713376.shtml
   "...(CBS) Natalee Holloway's story bears a striking
   similarity to the disappearance of another woman,
   29-year-old travel magazine editor Claudia Kirschhoch,
   who vanished in May 2000 in Negril, Jamaica.
   Claudia has never been found.


 



Mum:

what I meant........same maze


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on August 29, 2008, 11:08:43 AM
was same maze in Dordrecht? same perps? speaks to premeditation, motive.......


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on August 29, 2008, 04:29:05 PM
Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:37 pm
The DiceMen must be questioned.
They to go to the Music and enter the same Maze
Mary who was not a virgin entered  
The DiceMen ROLLED
Mary ROLLED

We were told a few months ago that "Mary who was not a virgin" was actually Julia Renfro.

We were also told and several monkeys who were into photography agreed, that the picture from C&Cs had been photoshoped because of the perfect and unnatural alignment of the people in the picture.

I don't know what to think at this point except that Elizabeth Cain knows an important piece of information.  I agree with Lalas that the FBI has the answers.  Are any MB students here at SM who might be willing to encourage her to communicate with us?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on August 29, 2008, 05:09:28 PM
was same maze in Dordrecht? same perps? speaks to premeditation, motive.......

Amy Bradley's parents mentioned a band on the cruise ship also and the bar C&C.

Wonder what band was playing in Jamaica in 2000. Was there a music festival there?

Why the constant mention by codetalkers of the 'orchestra' as well as a 'band'.   ::MonkeyConfused::

An orchestra has strings (violins, etc) while a band does not. 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on August 29, 2008, 09:03:50 PM
::MonkeyHaHa::

I need lots of coffee...

The Dicemen owed money to a casino...

But are we really looking at the band called Dicemen or just a band? If it is different players why investigate the previous incident further...

Before that you say: same players...same maze, but doesn't mean directly involved in NH case...

See I can't even put my thoughts in order ::MonkeyConfused::

Did I ever post the post from Finn's thread that Freddy played in a band at the HI? ::MonkeyLaugh::

Mum, I think the DiceMen may have been on Aruba at that time. They are celebs, so is David Adkins (Sinbad) who ran the soul beach music fest. Anybody know if they wrapped up the festival with a private party? They like to party down there...this party would include the 'other things' such as the deflowering, and need I type up the rest.... Codetalker is saying the Dicemen were there, at the party, and they should be questioned. The partygoers that were at that private party also need to be pinched. But how did Joran know about this party? My guess is someone at the H.I. informed him of it. No doubt the Texas Hold'em poker champs were invited.
 
Now back to your post above - Wowzer, just learned something new today! Didn't know Freddy was a musician.... that is very interesting. Isn't his brother involved also w/music in FL?

Maybe SCroes is not the musicman after all, maybe it is Freddy?

"...A dance card (also known by its German-language name, Ballspende, plural Ballspenden) is used by a woman to record with whom she will dance each successive dance at a formal ball. 


5/16/06 the grey whisper said...
All may not be as quiet as it seems. The house band plays a merry tango, but who has space on their dance card?

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 2:58 pm
The music man’s song was not on the bill.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:09 pm
Simian, who else plays in the orchestra? A Babylonian….

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:33 pm
Arawaks do not like Babylonian musicians.  Everyone in camp hears poison music.  Many teepees fall.  New wars with Babylon.  No Wampum, many moons.  Light the Fires

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:29 pm 
Babylonians and Shivas do not play with sandcastles. Follow the music!  Mary who was not a Virgin entered the maze to discover it’s secrets. The lamb is scared. The fires are lit. But now the lamb is a goat.

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:33 pm
Follow the music.

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:37 pm
The DiceMen must be questioned.  They to go to the Music and enter the same Maze. Mary who was not a virgin entered. The DiceMen ROLLED. Mary ROLLED.

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:41 pm
Mary ROLLED through the Maze. There is more than one house of music. the Lamb is a scapegoat.

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:23 pm
Follow the music into the maze. the lions know they are being stalked. the gamblers and other Rollers talk. tell the cowboys.

Shango Says:June 27th, 2005 at 11:26 pm
The Arawaks will not enter the maze unless the cowboys refuse the peace pipe. Follow the music, the lions are not tame. DirtyHand knows, so does the elder.

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:59 pm
Only those who cRave music go into the Maze.

Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 12:04 am
The gods of Babylon have orchested the refrain for the Arawak choir. the music which holds the answers lies within the maze. the cowboys will smile sweetly as the chorus sings. backs turned to the maze. never hearing a single note from the poison song.

Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 1:55 am
Find the music. Only David left the den alive.


Also, yellowbird - could "yellow" be the 'yellow party' and 'bird' be the last name "Croes"? Yellowbird has flown. Maybe that isn't Natalee either...maybe it is Dirtyhand who left anonymous but broken...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on August 30, 2008, 12:08:36 AM
"....twenty times before and nothing like this has ever happened...."

or has it.........?



We have been told that Lorenzo and Paulass were involved in two filming parties around that same time period and both events were held at the Matty Apts.  Supposedly, Natalee was not the only young woman who died at the video parties.  Urine and the Pimps bragged about hustling twenty girls prior to Natalee.  But in the same breath, he and the Alpoes say that they only took her to the beach!!!   


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on August 30, 2008, 12:16:08 AM
The term Yellowbird is for someone from Alabama.  It goes back to the Civil War era when soldiers referred to themselves as Yellowbirds.  It could signify Natalee or any of the other MB students.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on August 30, 2008, 07:36:38 AM
The term Yellowbird is for someone from Alabama.  It goes back to the Civil War era when soldiers referred to themselves as Yellowbirds.  It could signify Natalee or any of the other MB students.

While that had always made sense (that codetalker "yellowbird" = Yellow bird/Alabama), unless we get the exact meaning directly from the codetalkers mouth, we can only guess at this time what any of the posts meant. 

There is a Yellow party, a Yellowbird party boat, Yellow Bird Tour group, Yellow Bird Show Club (dancers in yellow), "bird on a wire",  bird =croes or Frances Ellen Byrd...I was merely tossing out yet another explaination in case in the end it may fit, that's all  ::MonkeyWink::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on August 30, 2008, 07:58:35 AM
The term Yellowbird is for someone from Alabama.  It goes back to the Civil War era when soldiers referred to themselves as Yellowbirds.  It could signify Natalee or any of the other MB students.

While that had always made sense (that codetalker "yellowbird" = Yellow bird/Alabama), unless we get the exact meaning directly from the codetalkers mouth, we can only guess at this time what any of the posts meant. 

There is a Yellow party, a Yellowbird party boat, Yellow Bird Tour group, Yellow Bird Show Club (dancers in yellow), "bird on a wire",  bird =croes or Frances Ellen Byrd...I was merely tossing out yet another explaination in case in the end it may fit, that's all  ::MonkeyWink::


Interesting thoughts once again Poochy! Thanks!

The Croes idea is intriguing to say the least. seem to recall Caps calling the MEP the "Yellow Party", back in Shango1.

Frances Ellen Byrd...also we know Haleigh Uncalpher stayed behind, not sure how long she stayed for...

Help me out, please? Is there reference to a "Yellowbird" and a "Yellowhammer"? Would like the dates of those posts, if possible...sorry not much time and thought you might know exactly where to find them.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on August 30, 2008, 08:10:58 AM
My Mistake…Sorry...Glad I checked…It was C&Cs…..

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2768.0

Post 7….Between a third and half way down the page.

6:35 pm
klaasend: By the way, I have a pretty good source that tells me this Freddy is in a band that plays at CnC.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on August 30, 2008, 08:37:24 AM
"....twenty times before and nothing like this has ever happened...."

or has it.........?



We have been told that Lorenzo and Paulass were involved in two filming parties around that same time period and both events were held at the Matty Apts.  Supposedly, Natalee was not the only young woman who died at the video parties.  Urine and the Pimps bragged about hustling twenty girls prior to Natalee.  But in the same breath, he and the Alpoes say that they only took her to the beach!!!   

Shango is all about finding DirtyHand.....presumably the link between the gardeners and the lions

so, when "The Dicemen must be questioned".....is it about finding DirtyHand....where? By chance does Dordrecht have a ca$ino, too? Did they "garden?" Did they too "hit the jackpot?"

related case?
http://news.caribseek.com/set-up/exec/view.cgi?archive=150&num=61632



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on August 30, 2008, 08:43:13 AM
Article about Claudia Kirschhoch

http://findclaudia.homestead.com/files/Jamaica_Scotsman.htm


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on August 30, 2008, 09:08:02 AM
'Yellow Bird' is a Jamaican song that tells a story of twarted love. The little yellow bird's mate flew away.
http://deenotes.homestead.com/yellowbird.html

WISH THAT I WAS A YELLOW BIRD,
I'D FLY FAR AWAY WITH YOU.
BUT I AM NOT,
A YELLOW BIRD,
SO HERE I SIT WITH,
NOTHING ELSE TO DO.
YELLOW BIRD, UP HIGH IN BANANA TREE,
YELLOW BIRD, YOU SIT ALL ALONE LIKE ME.
BETTER FLY AWAY,
IN THE SKY AWAY.
PICKER COMING SOON,
PICK FROM NIGHT TO NOON.
BLACK AND YELLOW, YOU,
LIKE BANANA TOO,
THEY MAY PICK YOU SOME DAY.
I ALSO HAD A PRETTY GIRL,
SHE'S NOT WITH ME TODAY.
THEY'RE ALL THE SAME,
THE PRETTY GIRLS.
MAKE'EM THE NEST,
THEN THEY FLY AWAY.
YELLOW BIRD, UP HIGH IN BANANA TREE,
YELLOW BIRD, YOU SIT ALL ALONE LIKE ME.
DID YOUR LADY FRIEND,
LEAVE THE NEST AGAIN?
THAT IS VERY SAD,
MAKES ME FEEL SO BAD.
YOU CAN FLY AWAY,
IN THE SKY AWAY,
YOUR MORE LUCKY THAN ME.


Yellow Hammer
http://www.netstate.com/states/symb/birds/al_yellowhammer.htm

By an act of the Alabama Legislature, the yellow-hammer was approved as the official bird of Alabama on September 6, 1927.
"The members of the above-named legislative body officially selected this bird as the avian emblem of Alabama because the cavalrymen of the Confederate Army wore gray uniforms trimmed with yellow, the colors of the yellowhammer having suggested these gray and yellow uniforms."


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on August 30, 2008, 02:28:11 PM
The term Yellowbird is for someone from Alabama.  It goes back to the Civil War era when soldiers referred to themselves as Yellowbirds.  It could signify Natalee or any of the other MB students.

While that had always made sense (that codetalker "yellowbird" = Yellow bird/Alabama), unless we get the exact meaning directly from the codetalkers mouth, we can only guess at this time what any of the posts meant. 

There is a Yellow party, a Yellowbird party boat, Yellow Bird Tour group, Yellow Bird Show Club (dancers in yellow), "bird on a wire",  bird =croes or Frances Ellen Byrd...I was merely tossing out yet another explaination in case in the end it may fit, that's all  ::MonkeyWink::


Interesting thoughts once again Poochy! Thanks!

The Croes idea is intriguing to say the least. seem to recall Caps calling the MEP the "Yellow Party", back in Shango1.

Frances Ellen Byrd...also we know Haleigh Uncalpher stayed behind, not sure how long she stayed for...

Help me out, please? Is there reference to a "Yellowbird" and a "Yellowhammer"? Would like the dates of those posts, if possible...sorry not much time and thought you might know exactly where to find them.

Here's the posts I found about Yellowbird, Yellowhammer, birds, etc...

Merian Ernest 7/26/05 9:47am
See how the dead-ends meet? Like the Simian said. There is little to fear as the Babylonians are swinging the scepter still.  The Simian does not boast. Tread slowly as the Hindus were brutal during the confrontation. Who stuck to their story after all?  The Yellowhammer has flown, but the bifrons is not on the loose. The silent antennas have spoken, but they have forked tongues too. Who will sit in Damocles’ chair?
 
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 11:12 pm
Even Flying Birds Sing. If the key does not arrive tomorrow, that door to Eden will remain closed I must feed the messengers

AllyinMiami Says: June 27th, 2005 at 12:38 pm
The cowboys have their feet deep in the dirty water. They are confident in their equipment. Babylonians are there to pick up when necessary. From Montana to Moko there is not much to walk The monkey is connected to a microwave. The monsters have come to eat from the anguished. The birdie has come down from the cable. We have to wait a while until it becomes known to all why he leaves all his dogs dead there

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:04 pm
The wire has been shaken. The bird has left

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:27 pm
The elder had to come clean. He knows what damaged he had caused. The Simian said to not shake the wire, ‘cause the bird would fly away. The Simian would never pose. Go back and read what the Simian wrote. The Babylonians knows what happened, but they are up in arms. The gamblers knew the girl.

Merian Ernest 7/27/05 11:58am
Sorry, John Neely, if the Yellowbird is found all will be known.  The hours are winding down. As Emily is sent to the sea, clearing the path for the Babylonians.

Merian Ernest 7/27/05 1:23pm
Who dares to suggest the Simian knows the whereabouts of the Yellowbird? The trail started with Papi the Butterfly. The clock is now reset. A new time was proclaimed by the Simian yesterday. How feeble the ones who ran away to hide from their own inability to read between the lines. The Babylonians are very confident and grateful, but are very wary. They have been let down by the hammer and block. They need the Hindus, but they need more. More will unravel as the Jaguar leans into the sea. Merian wants to leave this form soon.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on August 30, 2008, 07:02:18 PM
I still feel that Ally is either Simian/Armin or a very good friend who knows what happened.  I found this post very interesting because she mentioned the dead dogs.  Wasn't there talk that Lorenzo killed dogs?


AllyinMiami Says: June 27th, 2005 at 12:38 pm
The cowboys have their feet deep in the dirty water. They are confident in their equipment. Babylonians are there to pick up when necessary. From Montana to Moko there is not much to walk The monkey is connected to a microwave. The monsters have come to eat from the anguished. The birdie has come down from the cable. We have to wait a while until it becomes known to all why he leaves all his dogs dead there  


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on August 30, 2008, 07:50:53 PM
This is from a post by Kermit on 8/10/2008.  Kermit, do you have any additional information about this?  Does anyone have any additional information?



new girl Says:
June 29th, 2005 at 12:35 am
Subdude, back to Shango’s clues:

DirtyHand the polis chief has been to the maze and walks through all houses. INCLUDING this one. But he does not go there to seek pleasures.

So why does he go? To collect his $$ for allowing these raves to go on and on while everyone else’s are busted? Or is it more sinister? Does it involve drug trade or something sexually inappropriate?

Shango also suggested that the children of “Babylonian” government officials / important people hang out at these rave parties. Why don’t they come forward?

Maybe they are scared that if Lorenzo is crazy and murders dogs  and gang-rapes and kills innocent tourists, he might hurt them too. Especially if the police are somehow complicit in this.

And what of their parents, the ruling Dutch officials? Are they also complicit in some way? Is this a house of cards the kids don’t want to bring down?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on August 30, 2008, 08:06:06 PM
AllyinMiami Says: June 27th, 2005 at 12:38 pm
The cowboys have their feet deep in the dirty water. They are confident in their equipment. Babylonians are there to pick up when necessary. From Montana to Moko there is not much to walk The monkey is connected to a microwave. The monsters have come to eat from the anguished. The birdie has come down from the cable. We have to wait a while until it becomes known to all why he leaves all his dogs dead there  


We have heard that Urine killed a dog, but Ally is talking about someone leaving "all his dogs dead there".  This looks like more than one dog.  Is Ally talking about Lorenzo in this post?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on August 30, 2008, 08:58:34 PM
AllyinMiami Says: June 27th, 2005 at 12:38 pm
The cowboys have their feet deep in the dirty water. They are confident in their equipment. Babylonians are there to pick up when necessary. From Montana to Moko there is not much to walk The monkey is connected to a microwave. The monsters have come to eat from the anguished. The birdie has come down from the cable. We have to wait a while until it becomes known to all why he leaves all his dogs dead there  


We have heard that Urine killed a dog, but Ally is talking about someone leaving "all his dogs dead there".  This looks like more than one dog.  Is Ally talking about Lorenzo in this post?

SS - I agree w/you about Joran leaving dead dog(s) 'there'. Plural - not dog but dogS - interesting....
I recall reading Joran blamed someone else for killing his dog, then came forward with the truth (for once in his life...). But interesting about more than one 'dogs'. Reminds me of Randy Jackson on American Idol 'DOGZ'... choose-a-name bouncer dogz perhaps???




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 30, 2008, 09:00:00 PM
Hmmmm.  More yellowhammer discussion. Interesting.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 30, 2008, 09:03:34 PM
Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:37 pm
The DiceMen must be questioned.
They to go to the Music and enter the same Maze
Mary who was not a virgin entered  
The DiceMen ROLLED
Mary ROLLED

We were told a few months ago that "Mary who was not a virgin" was actually Julia Renfro.

We were also told and several monkeys who were into photography agreed, that the picture from C&Cs had been photoshoped because of the perfect and unnatural alignment of the people in the picture.

I don't know what to think at this point except that Elizabeth Cain knows an important piece of information.  I agree with Lalas that the FBI has the answers.  Are any MB students here at SM who might be willing to encourage her to communicate with us?

Where is she in college? 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on August 30, 2008, 09:10:11 PM
I still feel that Ally is either Simian/Armin or a very good friend who knows what happened.  I found this post very interesting because she mentioned the dead dogs.  Wasn't there talk that Lorenzo killed dogs?


AllyinMiami Says: June 27th, 2005 at 12:38 pm
The cowboys have their feet deep in the dirty water. They are confident in their equipment. Babylonians are there to pick up when necessary. From Montana to Moko there is not much to walk The monkey is connected to a microwave. The monsters have come to eat from the anguished. The birdie has come down from the cable. We have to wait a while until it becomes known to all why he leaves all his dogs dead there  

http://www.fanhouse.com/2007/06/08/report-massive-k-9-grave-found-on-michael-vicks-property/





Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on August 30, 2008, 09:12:32 PM
the maze offers many forbidden desires
the girl knew his
find DirtyHand
he too walked in this house of babylon
but not to satiate desire

http://www.fanhouse.com/2007/06/08/report-massive-k-9-grave-found-on-michael-vicks-property/






Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on August 30, 2008, 09:13:22 PM
edit above:
'the girl knew this'


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on August 30, 2008, 10:12:03 PM
I still feel that Ally is either Simian/Armin or a very good friend who knows what happened.  I found this post very interesting because she mentioned the dead dogs.  Wasn't there talk that Lorenzo killed dogs?


AllyinMiami Says: June 27th, 2005 at 12:38 pm
The cowboys have their feet deep in the dirty water. They are confident in their equipment. Babylonians are there to pick up when necessary. From Montana to Moko there is not much to walk The monkey is connected to a microwave. The monsters have come to eat from the anguished. The birdie has come down from the cable. We have to wait a while until it becomes known to all why he leaves all his dogs dead there  

http://www.fanhouse.com/2007/06/08/report-massive-k-9-grave-found-on-michael-vicks-property/

C - interesting. Dead dogs leading to dog fighting like M Vics did....

The only thing I can say is that whomever was invovled w/Natalee had no heart.

Our family has worked with our local animal shelter (ahh yes, the name "poochy") for many  years for fostering dogs... mainly puppies cuz we got 2 of our own, and a fenced in yard and dogs are 'pack animals' yada yada.... But the dog fighting angle - interesting. All those )w/no regard to life (whether dogs or humans or Joran as he so coldly describes it to his "friend" ) -- they must be related to her disappearance.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on August 30, 2008, 10:14:09 PM
http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Halliburton_contractor_sued_for_human_trafficking_0828.html

HALIBURTON SUED FOR HUMAN TRAFFIKING???

http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Halliburton_contractor_sued_for_human_trafficking_0828.html

hM... THE 'GODS' ARE AWARE.

Condi Rice and Beth photo - Condi was warning somebody...."I know what you did last summer..."


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on August 30, 2008, 10:29:29 PM
I still feel that Ally is either Simian/Armin or a very good friend who knows what happened.  I found this post very interesting because she mentioned the dead dogs.  Wasn't there talk that Lorenzo killed dogs?


AllyinMiami Says: June 27th, 2005 at 12:38 pm
The cowboys have their feet deep in the dirty water. They are confident in their equipment. Babylonians are there to pick up when necessary. From Montana to Moko there is not much to walk The monkey is connected to a microwave. The monsters have come to eat from the anguished. The birdie has come down from the cable. We have to wait a while until it becomes known to all why he leaves all his dogs dead there  

http://www.fanhouse.com/2007/06/08/report-massive-k-9-grave-found-on-michael-vicks-property/

C - interesting. Dead dogs leading to dog fighting like M Vics did....

The only thing I can say is that whomever was invovled w/Natalee had no heart.

Our family has worked with our local animal shelter (ahh yes, the name "poochy") for many  years for fostering dogs... mainly puppies cuz we got 2 of our own, and a fenced in yard and dogs are 'pack animals' yada yada.... But the dog fighting angle - interesting. All those )w/no regard to life (whether dogs or humans or Joran as he so coldly describes it to his "friend" ) -- they must be related to her disappearance.




wait-gets better Pooch.......remember "Miraclist?" ("a local ecstasy substitute")

then, the pair of intuitives that went to the island to do an investigative show (channeling NH: "I wouldn't even know where to get this drug [that she was given]")

re: the dogs:
http://www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/newsroom/news_releases/archives/legacy/2002/82002/08152002_2.xml





Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on August 31, 2008, 11:15:43 AM
I still feel that Ally is either Simian/Armin or a very good friend who knows what happened.  I found this post very interesting because she mentioned the dead dogs.  Wasn't there talk that Lorenzo killed dogs?


AllyinMiami Says: June 27th, 2005 at 12:38 pm
The cowboys have their feet deep in the dirty water. They are confident in their equipment. Babylonians are there to pick up when necessary. From Montana to Moko there is not much to walk The monkey is connected to a microwave. The monsters have come to eat from the anguished. The birdie has come down from the cable. We have to wait a while until it becomes known to all why he leaves all his dogs dead there  

http://www.fanhouse.com/2007/06/08/report-massive-k-9-grave-found-on-michael-vicks-property/

C - interesting. Dead dogs leading to dog fighting like M Vics did....

The only thing I can say is that whomever was invovled w/Natalee had no heart.

Our family has worked with our local animal shelter (ahh yes, the name "poochy") for many  years for fostering dogs... mainly puppies cuz we got 2 of our own, and a fenced in yard and dogs are 'pack animals' yada yada.... But the dog fighting angle - interesting. All those )w/no regard to life (whether dogs or humans or Joran as he so coldly describes it to his "friend" ) -- they must be related to her disappearance.




wait-gets better Pooch.......remember "Miraclist?" ("a local ecstasy substitute")

then, the pair of intuitives that went to the island to do an investigative show (channeling NH: "I wouldn't even know where to get this drug [that she was given]")

re: the dogs:
http://www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/newsroom/news_releases/archives/legacy/2002/82002/08152002_2.xml

Sorry Colombo, I don't remember the 'Miraclist'. I'lll have to search around and learn more.

Gonna listen again to those two 'intuitives' on google again.

They should dig that up that pet cemetary in Aruba like they did MVics. Maybe they'd find something of interest.   

For 3 years I wondered what was meant by the 'path' that lead down the rabbit hole. "I ain't wonderin' no more"  ::MonkeyCool::

(got a house full of party folks comin' over in a few - ttyl)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on August 31, 2008, 11:20:58 AM
...but before I go...see the 2 sentences in red below:

AllyinMiami Says: June 27th, 2005 at 12:38 pm
The cowboys have their feet deep in the dirty water. They are confident in their equipment. Babylonians are there to pick up when necessary. From Montana to Moko there is not much to walk  The monkey is connected to a microwave. The monsters have come to eat from the anguished. The birdie has come down from the cable. We have to wait a while until it becomes known to all why he leaves all his dogs dead there  

From Montana to Moko there is not much to walk.

We have to wait a while (the timing is not right)

until it becomes known to all (if yellowbird is found all will be known)

why he leaves all his dogs dead THERE  (THERE is somewhere between Montana to Moko)


(also, as an fyi - and this could be something or nothing, but Joran and Lorenzo both had on PUMA t-shirts. Is PUMA a type of lion? I wondered if that was a signal to dirtyhand that they were not going to talk....again, probably nothing, but just found it odd that Joran goes from wearing those 'regular guy look' plaid cotton shirts to a PUMA T).


now I really got to get off this pooter and get ready for my party!





Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Kermit on August 31, 2008, 12:16:26 PM
This is from a post by Kermit on 8/10/2008.  Kermit, do you have any additional information about this?  Does anyone have any additional information?



new girl Says:
June 29th, 2005 at 12:35 am
Subdude, back to Shango’s clues:

DirtyHand the polis chief has been to the maze and walks through all houses. INCLUDING this one. But he does not go there to seek pleasures.

So why does he go? To collect his $$ for allowing these raves to go on and on while everyone else’s are busted? Or is it more sinister? Does it involve drug trade or something sexually inappropriate?

Shango also suggested that the children of “Babylonian” government officials / important people hang out at these rave parties. Why don’t they come forward?

Maybe they are scared that if Lorenzo is crazy and murders dogs  and gang-rapes and kills innocent tourists, he might hurt them too. Especially if the police are somehow complicit in this.

And what of their parents, the ruling Dutch officials? Are they also complicit in some way? Is this a house of cards the kids don’t want to bring down?


I don't really remember "new girl" as a poster
but I think I can tell you that there are people in the LE that are involved in the cover-up. So she is accurate in
her assessment of the case.

*remember Lorenzo was arrested and let go without a trial or anything
* remember the Polis Captain led tourists to after hour parties
* remember Polis were on these boards watching, people with Aruba gov't were posting false and mis-leading information right away.
* remember Joran confessed - Hans Mos did nothng
* remember Karin Jansseen waited 10 days to allow her fellow friend and former working buddy to sanitize everything
* remember Judge Bob Witt limited the search
* remember Ben King helped his friend and working buddy Paulus van der Sloot
* remember Judge Smid said, "they were guilty of body disposal"; yet he let them go free

The cover-up is massive.

Smid, Paulus, Antonio Carlos, Oduber all buddies






Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on August 31, 2008, 12:25:30 PM
I still feel that Ally is either Simian/Armin or a very good friend who knows what happened.  I found this post very interesting because she mentioned the dead dogs.  Wasn't there talk that Lorenzo killed dogs?


AllyinMiami Says: June 27th, 2005 at 12:38 pm
The cowboys have their feet deep in the dirty water. They are confident in their equipment. Babylonians are there to pick up when necessary. From Montana to Moko there is not much to walk The monkey is connected to a microwave. The monsters have come to eat from the anguished. The birdie has come down from the cable. We have to wait a while until it becomes known to all why he leaves all his dogs dead there  

http://www.fanhouse.com/2007/06/08/report-massive-k-9-grave-found-on-michael-vicks-property/

C - interesting. Dead dogs leading to dog fighting like M Vics did....

The only thing I can say is that whomever was invovled w/Natalee had no heart.

Our family has worked with our local animal shelter (ahh yes, the name "poochy") for many  years for fostering dogs... mainly puppies cuz we got 2 of our own, and a fenced in yard and dogs are 'pack animals' yada yada.... But the dog fighting angle - interesting. All those )w/no regard to life (whether dogs or humans or Joran as he so coldly describes it to his "friend" ) -- they must be related to her disappearance.




wait-gets better Pooch.......remember "Miraclist?" ("a local ecstasy substitute")

then, the pair of intuitives that went to the island to do an investigative show (channeling NH: "I wouldn't even know where to get this drug [that she was given]")

re: the dogs:
http://www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/newsroom/news_releases/archives/legacy/2002/82002/08152002_2.xml

Sorry Colombo, I don't remember the 'Miraclist'. I'lll have to search around and learn more.

Gonna listen again to those two 'intuitives' on google again.

They should dig that up that pet cemetary in Aruba like they did MVics. Maybe they'd find something of interest.   

For 3 years I wondered what was meant by the 'path' that lead down the rabbit hole. "I ain't wonderin' no more"  ::MonkeyCool::

(got a house full of party folks comin' over in a few - ttyl)


http://www.mythforlife.com/qtr_2nd_05.html


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on August 31, 2008, 10:40:44 PM
the maze offers many forbidden desires
the girl knew his
find DirtyHand
he too walked in this house of babylon
but not to satiate desire

http://www.fanhouse.com/2007/06/08/report-massive-k-9-grave-found-on-michael-vicks-property/







Colombo - you lost me.   ::MonkeyConfused::  Wasn't Michael Vick into fighting pitbulls?  Did Lorenzo also train pitbulls to fight?  I don't get the connection.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on August 31, 2008, 10:48:08 PM
...but before I go...see the 2 sentences in red below:

AllyinMiami Says: June 27th, 2005 at 12:38 pm
The cowboys have their feet deep in the dirty water. They are confident in their equipment. Babylonians are there to pick up when necessary. From Montana to Moko there is not much to walk  The monkey is connected to a microwave. The monsters have come to eat from the anguished. The birdie has come down from the cable. We have to wait a while until it becomes known to all why he leaves all his dogs dead there  

From Montana to Moko there is not much to walk.

We have to wait a while (the timing is not right)

until it becomes known to all (if yellowbird is found all will be known)

why he leaves all his dogs dead THERE  (THERE is somewhere between Montana to Moko)


(also, as an fyi - and this could be something or nothing, but Joran and Lorenzo both had on PUMA t-shirts. Is PUMA a type of lion? I wondered if that was a signal to dirtyhand that they were not going to talk....again, probably nothing, but just found it odd that Joran goes from wearing those 'regular guy look' plaid cotton shirts to a PUMA T).


now I really got to get off this pooter and get ready for my party!






Poochy - something is very confusing about these dead dogs.  There was a story the Urine killed one of his dogs and there the dog in the pond.  I don't know if we ever validated this story as factual.  There is also another story about Lorenzo killing dogs, but I don't know if that has ever been validated either.  Lorenzo's story relates to more than one dog.  Urine story is about one of his dogs.  Which person is allyinmiami talking about - Lorenzo or Urine?  She seeems to be referring to more than one dead dog.   ::MonkeyConfused::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on August 31, 2008, 11:10:48 PM
This is from a post by Kermit on 8/10/2008.  Kermit, do you have any additional information about this?  Does anyone have any additional information?



new girl Says:
June 29th, 2005 at 12:35 am
Subdude, back to Shango’s clues:

DirtyHand the polis chief has been to the maze and walks through all houses. INCLUDING this one. But he does not go there to seek pleasures.

So why does he go? To collect his $$ for allowing these raves to go on and on while everyone else’s are busted? Or is it more sinister? Does it involve drug trade or something sexually inappropriate?

Shango also suggested that the children of “Babylonian” government officials / important people hang out at these rave parties. Why don’t they come forward?

Maybe they are scared that if Lorenzo is crazy and murders dogs  and gang-rapes and kills innocent tourists, he might hurt them too. Especially if the police are somehow complicit in this.

And what of their parents, the ruling Dutch officials? Are they also complicit in some way? Is this a house of cards the kids don’t want to bring down?


I don't really remember "new girl" as a poster
but I think I can tell you that there are people in the LE that are involved in the cover-up. So she is accurate in
her assessment of the case.

*remember Lorenzo was arrested and let go without a trial or anything
* remember the Polis Captain led tourists to after hour parties
* remember Polis were on these boards watching, people with Aruba gov't were posting false and mis-leading information right away.
* remember Joran confessed - Hans Mos did nothng
* remember Karin Jansseen waited 10 days to allow her fellow friend and former working buddy to sanitize everything
* remember Judge Bob Witt limited the search
* remember Ben King helped his friend and working buddy Paulus van der Sloot
* remember Judge Smid said, "they were guilty of body disposal"; yet he let them go free

The cover-up is massive.

Smid, Paulus, Antonio Carlos, Oduber all buddies








We know that they are covering for someone and everyone, and we've figured out a lot of the "whys" which most likely include drugs and pornography, two very lucrative activites.  No doubt, some of our information is not accurate.  They've obviously been throwing nonsense at us since the beginning and we certainly have done a lot of tail chasing.  But, who actually killed Natalee?  Who is the 5th?  Kermit, if you can figure it out I'll give you a great big jar of those huge green horse flies.   ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on August 31, 2008, 11:31:53 PM
Hmmmm.  More yellowhammer discussion. Interesting.


I know Lalas, it just keeps going round and round.   ::MonkeyWaa::  I read the lyrics to the yellow bird song again.  It seems to be about a male bird in a banana tree who tried to make a nest for a female yellow bird, but she dumped him.  He's sitting there by himself feeling very jilted.  Did Natalee dump Lorenzo or the mystery man from earlier in the week?  Merian said that if yellow bird is found, all will be known.  Merian almost has to be referring to the yellow bird as the same person who is the cool and crazy guy from earlier in the week.  And, I still can't get my head around that being Paulass.  There's got to be a cool and crazy guy on the HI security videos with Natalee.  Where is Elizabeth Cain?

Yellowhammer has to refer to Natalee or someone else from Alabama.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on August 31, 2008, 11:38:12 PM
Kermit - do you know if Lorenzo or anyone else is involved with pitbulls (Staffordshire Terriers) or dog fighting?  Does anyone know what breed of dog Lorenzo uses to guard his perimeter with the Colombians?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on September 01, 2008, 12:04:29 AM
the maze offers many forbidden desires
the girl knew his
find DirtyHand
he too walked in this house of babylon
but not to satiate desire

http://www.fanhouse.com/2007/06/08/report-massive-k-9-grave-found-on-michael-vicks-property/







Colombo - you lost me.   ::MonkeyConfused::  Wasn't Michael Vick into fighting pitbulls?  Did Lorenzo also train pitbulls to fight?  I don't get the connection.

http://www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/newsroom/news_releases/archives/legacy/2002/82002/08152002_2.xml

the dogs, the drug......so much stuff on him


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on September 01, 2008, 12:29:58 AM
the maze offers many forbidden desires
the girl knew his
find DirtyHand
he too walked in this house of babylon
but not to satiate desire

http://www.fanhouse.com/2007/06/08/report-massive-k-9-grave-found-on-michael-vicks-property/







Colombo - you lost me.   ::MonkeyConfused::  Wasn't Michael Vick into fighting pitbulls?  Did Lorenzo also train pitbulls to fight?  I don't get the connection.

http://www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/newsroom/news_releases/archives/legacy/2002/82002/08152002_2.xml

the dogs, the drug......so much stuff on him




Colombo - do you think that the dead dogs reference is because they gave Natalee Special K, the animal anesthesia?  That still doesn't explain why he killed the dogs, unless allyinmiami was referring to additional murdered porn party victims as his dogs.


Lalas and Mum - just a little "Boulean headache" humor.....    ::MonkeyHaHa::

if cool and crazy guy = the 5th, and if yellow bird = the 5th, then cool and crazy guy = yellow bird.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: finngirl on September 01, 2008, 02:36:58 AM

you guys have been busy,
lots to catch up on

not sure if I was reading too fast
and I apologize if I missed something
and you already know this ...
but Ally's dog reference appeared
in her translation of a previous simian quote

so, sim was talking about dead dogs, not Ally

...but before I go...see the 2 sentences in red below:

AllyinMiami Says: June 27th, 2005 at 12:38 pm
The cowboys have their feet deep in the dirty water. They are confident in their equipment. Babylonians are there to pick up when necessary. From Montana to Moko there is not much to walk  The monkey is connected to a microwave. The monsters have come to eat from the anguished. The birdie has come down from the cable. We have to wait a while until it becomes known to all why he leaves all his dogs dead there  

From Montana to Moko there is not much to walk.

We have to wait a while (the timing is not right)

until it becomes known to all (if yellowbird is found all will be known)

why he leaves all his dogs dead THERE  (THERE is somewhere between Montana to Moko)

(also, as an fyi - and this could be something or nothing, but Joran and Lorenzo both had on PUMA t-shirts. Is PUMA a type of lion? I wondered if that was a signal to dirtyhand that they were not going to talk....again, probably nothing, but just found it odd that Joran goes from wearing those 'regular guy look' plaid cotton shirts to a PUMA T).

now I really got to get off this pooter and get ready for my party!

Poochy - something is very confusing about these dead dogs.  There was a story the Urine killed one of his dogs and there [was] the dog in the pond.  I don't know if we ever validated this story as factual.  There is also another story about Lorenzo killing dogs, but I don't know if that has ever been validated either.  Lorenzo's story relates to more than one dog.  Urine story is about one of his dogs.  Which person is allyinmiami talking about - Lorenzo or Urine?  She seeems to be referring to more than one dead dog.

Simian Says: June 27th, 2005 at 12:11 pm
Los vaqueros tienen los pies profudamente en esa agua sucia. Estan seguro de sus maquinas. Babylonicos estan allí para recojer si es necesario. Desde Montaña a Moko no es mucho caminar. Este mono esta contectado con las ondas de micro. Los buitres ya llegaron para comer de la angustía. Ya se bajo el pajarito del cable. Hay que esperar un poco para que se deje saber porque bota a sus perros muertos alli.

my translation:
The cowboys have their feet deep in the dirty water. They are confident in their equipment. Babylonians are there to make the recovery if necessary. It is not a long walk from Montana to Moko. The monkey is connected to a microwave. The vultures have come to eat from the anguished. The birdie has come down from the wire. We have to wait a while until it becomes known why he [leaves] his dead dogs there.

bota in spanish means boot,
which doesn't fit the context well
unless bota is a slang reference:
gives his dead dogs the boot there

I usually suspect a typo when that happens
and then substitute adjoining keyboard letters
and attempt to translate again ...
but nothing I came up w/ made better sense

I'm not happy w/ "microwave" ...
context/meaning is often muddied w/ literal translation
:::shrugs:::
_ _ _ _ _

puma/cougar/north american panther
are interchangable terms for mountain lion
_ _ _ _ _

really liked the Ally = ally:
friend
aide
colleague
assistant
helper
supporter

I thought Ally mentioned being Cuban?
some reference to family tradition/culture?



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on September 01, 2008, 07:47:53 AM
the maze offers many forbidden desires
the girl knew his
find DirtyHand
he too walked in this house of babylon
but not to satiate desire

http://www.fanhouse.com/2007/06/08/report-massive-k-9-grave-found-on-michael-vicks-property/







Colombo - you lost me.   ::MonkeyConfused::  Wasn't Michael Vick into fighting pitbulls?  Did Lorenzo also train pitbulls to fight?  I don't get the connection.

http://www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/newsroom/news_releases/archives/legacy/2002/82002/08152002_2.xml

the dogs, the drug......so much stuff on him




Colombo - do you think that the dead dogs reference is because they gave Natalee Special K, the animal anesthesia?  That still doesn't explain why he killed the dogs, unless allyinmiami was referring to additional murdered porn party victims as his dogs.


Lalas and Mum - just a little "Boulean headache" humor.....    ::MonkeyHaHa::

if cool and crazy guy = the 5th, and if yellow bird = the 5th, then cool and crazy guy = yellow bird.

may open a window overlooking the goodship lollipop.......not just of babylon (Vick)

the gamblers took note ($)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on September 01, 2008, 07:48:24 AM
find the right path

hint: it is a crooked one


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on September 01, 2008, 10:12:51 AM
where there's dogfighting you will find lots of Ketamine and dead dogs......and lots of igh rollers


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on September 01, 2008, 02:18:03 PM
where there's dogfighting you will find lots of Ketamine and dead dogs......and lots of igh rollers

Interesting...

When you add in the layer of pitbull dog fighting and reread codetalker verses again it comes together in a new light.

And don't forget -- the Choose-A-Name bouncer's nic was 'PITBULL'. That was a bar they were said to have stopped at for a few minutes. And we all know what happened to PITBULL. AND, this was the 2nd time Choose-A-Name burned down - they even moved locations when they built this last one that burned down. Hmmm... smells of the ashes of burned evidence to me...

Put the name PITBULL together with a cRave (rave in a cave) - and maybe, just maybe, his death (his name and location of death) was a warning message sent from resident drug lord/king pins to the island of Aruba to pack up this case cuz they're being closely watched and losing allot of 'merchandise' and 'revenue' due to the unsolved case.  I feel they did this when they destroyed certain graveyard tombs (Croes and Wever, right?)

04/05/2006 - Dinesh ‘Pitbull’ Djoegan, found on/in Guadirikiri cave. His body was mutilated, crucified, and set on fire. Death initially ruled a suicide and/or overdose. SM has photos. There were convictions in this case. Amigoe Posted 8/10/2006 at M&C by Anna; credit to SunFreak2. Update posted 8/19 by msmarple

Here's one Aruba webforum - "Man arrested on Pitbull"  (can't translate it...)
http://www.pitbullaruba.com/Forum/index.php?topic=324.0


"...The lamb shall run anew in virgin fields, cropping sweet grass which should remain untouched.  The Lamb has sins, but the lions have sharper teeth.  A new key must be found to open unknown doors."

Heres' an interesting discussion. One breath they discuss Joran, and in the next breath Michael Vic.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,290133,00.html


5/16/06 the grey whisper said...
He thrusts his fists into the posts (GOAL POSTS?) but still insists he sees the ghosts. Was Michael Vic in Aruba? Or one of his other team mates? Heavy gamblers need ca$ino's when they vacation, or dog fights to bet on.

Crickets always chirp eventually, don't they? (Cricket is played in Europe - there's even a team called the "Lions Team". Maybe this is not about a Cricket player, but someone who wanted us to find the name Lions".

Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
His ticket was changed. Needed to stay two more days on the island. Why don’t the others say that they saw him? He was with them!
The Babylonians know that the federales are on him. He needs to answer some questions. Can’t figure out which position he plays. America’s passtime.

Makes me wonder who else was at that 'party' - the football playin' Twitty twins who were rumored to have lawyered up?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on September 01, 2008, 02:36:48 PM
Poochy...pretty sure the "America's favorite passtime" refers to baseball...fielder or a slogger...some of us looked into Aruba's favorite baseball player and he wasn't playing that weekend, but was on the Thursday and IIRC the next Tuesday...not sure the big leagues would just let him leave for the weekend, but I couldn't find anything if he did.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on September 01, 2008, 02:50:03 PM
[Geraldo] RIVERA: But one of the dirty secrets [of the Slanderfoot clan] of Aruba was it [Babylon] made Vegas, what happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas, it made Vegas look tame. Aruba was a place where the older [circles of] people could go and have access to legal prostitutes [poiso house where young babylonians and arawak nation meet] and the younger kids could go and the reason the high school graduating classes all adored it, get whatever drugs they wanted [the girl knew this].


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on September 01, 2008, 05:23:29 PM
where there's dogfighting you will find lots of Ketamine and dead dogs......and lots of igh rollers

Interesting...

When you add in the layer of pitbull dog fighting and reread codetalker verses again it comes together in a new light.

And don't forget -- the Choose-A-Name bouncer's nic was 'PITBULL'. That was a bar they were said to have stopped at for a few minutes. And we all know what happened to PITBULL. AND, this was the 2nd time Choose-A-Name burned down - they even moved locations when they built this last one that burned down. Hmmm... smells of the ashes of burned evidence to me...

Put the name PITBULL together with a cRave (rave in a cave) - and maybe, just maybe, his death (his name and location of death) was a warning message sent from resident drug lord/king pins to the island of Aruba to pack up this case cuz they're being closely watched and losing allot of 'merchandise' and 'revenue' due to the unsolved case.  I feel they did this when they destroyed certain graveyard tombs (Croes and Wever, right?)

04/05/2006 - Dinesh ‘Pitbull’ Djoegan, found on/in Guadirikiri cave. His body was mutilated, crucified, and set on fire. Death initially ruled a suicide and/or overdose. SM has photos. There were convictions in this case. Amigoe Posted 8/10/2006 at M&C by Anna; credit to SunFreak2. Update posted 8/19 by msmarple

Here's one Aruba webforum - "Man arrested on Pitbull"  (can't translate it...)
http://www.pitbullaruba.com/Forum/index.php?topic=324.0


"...The lamb shall run anew in virgin fields, cropping sweet grass which should remain untouched.  The Lamb has sins, but the lions have sharper teeth.  A new key must be found to open unknown doors."

Heres' an interesting discussion. One breath they discuss Joran, and in the next breath Michael Vic.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,290133,00.html


5/16/06 the grey whisper said...
He thrusts his fists into the posts (GOAL POSTS?) but still insists he sees the ghosts. Was Michael Vic in Aruba? Or one of his other team mates? Heavy gamblers need ca$ino's when they vacation, or dog fights to bet on.
Crickets always chirp eventually, don't they? (Cricket is played in Europe - there's even a team called the "Lions Team". Maybe this is not about a Cricket player, but someone who wanted us to find the name Lions".

Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
His ticket was changed. Needed to stay two more days on the island. Why don’t the others say that they saw him? He was with them!
The Babylonians know that the federales are on him. He needs to answer some questions. Can’t figure out which position he plays. America’s passtime.

Makes me wonder who else was at that 'party' - the football playin' Twitty twins who were rumored to have lawyered up?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on September 01, 2008, 05:41:57 PM
There is definitely a pitbull or dog fighting operation here.  This is another very lucrative and sick gambling venture.  There is big, big money in dog fights.  It's interesting that Grey Whisperer knew about Michael Vic's activities long before the US authorities busted him.

Years ago, I purchased a home on several acres in NJ.  While walking my dog in the woods, I stumbled upon my new neighbor's pitbull business.  A large metal enclosure was where he held the fights and trained the pitbulls.  Many Pitbulls were on heavy chains throughout the woods.  It was a nightmare.  Aruba doesn't have a lot of wooded areas to hide something like this.  I wonder if it's literally underground where they keep and train the dogs.  Does LVR have more than one basement?  Could this be the cave for the rave?

I wonder if Michael Vic or one of his football friends was one of the party-goers.  How about the Detroit Lions?  Here we go Lala's and Mum - back to Michigan!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on September 01, 2008, 05:51:54 PM
There is definitely a pitbull or dog fighting operation here.  This is another very lucrative and sick gambling venture.  There is big, big money in dog fights.  It's interesting that Grey Whisperer knew about Michael Vic's activities long before the US authorities busted him.

Years ago, I purchased a home on several acres in NJ.  While walking my dog in the woods, I stumbled upon my new neighbor's pitbull business.  A large metal enclosure was where he held the fights and trained the pitbulls.  Many Pitbulls were on heavy chains throughout the woods.  It was a nightmare.  Aruba doesn't have a lot of wooded areas to hide something like this.  I wonder if it's literally underground where they keep and train the dogs.  Does LVR have more than one basement?  Could this be the cave for the rave?

I wonder if Michael Vic or one of his football friends was one of the party-goers.  How about the Detroit Lions?  Here we go Lala's and Mum - back to Michigan!


Hi SS...LOL...Zedans in Michigan...Paul Brough's neighbourhood...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on September 01, 2008, 05:57:11 PM
I guess we can figure out why LVR killed his dogs.   ::MonkeyNoNo::

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2986955
Updated: August 22, 2007, 9:58 PM ET
Comment
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 What is the Public's Opinion of Vick?RICHMOND, Va. -- More than 50 pit bulls seized from Michael Vick's property face a Thursday deadline to be claimed. If no one comes forward, they could be euthanized.

Federal prosecutors filed court documents last month to condemn 53 pit bulls seized in April as part of the investigation into dogfighting on the Vick's property. No one has claimed any of the dogs, which are being held at several unspecified shelters in eastern Virginia, the U.S. Attorney's office said Wednesday.

The civil complaint filed by federal prosecutors does not name the Atlanta Falcons quarterback and is separate from the criminal case against him. But it does state the pit bulls were part of the dogfighting operation known as "Bad Newz Kennels,"  which Vick and three cohorts  are accused of operating.

Also included in the document are detailed allegations about the nature of the animals' training regimen and the dogfights occurring at Vick's property at 1915 Moonlight Road in Surry County.

The government filed three public civil forfeiture notices in a Richmond newspaper to publicize the dogs' confiscation, and the deadline for claims is 30 days after the appearance of the final notice, filed July 24.

Federal prosecutors declined to comment Wednesday on the seized dogs. Typically, when confiscated property goes unclaimed, the government asks the court to have the items declared forfeited. In this case, U.S. District Judge Henry E. Hudson will make the final decision on the dogs' fate.

"There's no dispute over who owns the dogs," said Daphna Nachminovitch, a spokeswoman for People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals. "Obviously this is not going to be a process where someone steps forward and says, 'This is my dog, can I have her back, please?' "

Though Hudson, who also is handling Vick's criminal case, will determine what becomes of the pit bulls, Nachminovitch said that it's likely that they will be euthanized because they're not adoptable as pets.

"These dogs are a ticking time bomb," she said. "Rehabilitating fighting dogs is not in the cards. It's widely accepted that euthanasia is the most humane thing for them."

Vick, 27, said through a lawyer this week that he will plead guilty to a federal charge of conspiracy to travel in interstate commerce in aid of unlawful activities and conspiracy to sponsor a dog in an animal fighting venture. He is scheduled to enter his plea agreement Monday and could face up to five years in prison.

Three Vick associates have pleaded guilty to the conspiracy charge and agreed to testify against him if the case went to trial. They said Vick provided virtually all the gambling and operating funds for the Bad Newz Kennels enterprise. Two of them also said Vick participated in executing at least eight underperforming dogs by various means, including drowning and hanging.
The locations of the shelters holding the dogs haven't been disclosed out of concern that the animals could be stolen, Nachminovitch said.

"They are a hot commodity in the world of dogfighting," she said.

Copyright 2007 by The Associated Press





Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on September 01, 2008, 06:59:04 PM
Who played for both Detroit Lions and Atlanta Falcons, or Virginia Tech and the Detroit Lions?  Michael Vic also played for Virginia Tech. I'm not a football fan, so I don't know much about the players.  DeAngelo Hall sounds interesting because he has played for Virginia Tech, the Falcons, and the Lions.

Joey Harrington?
Harrington, the third overall pick in the 2002 draft, has previously played for the Lions, Dolphins, and Falcons.  Atlanta cut him over the weekend.
http://www.profootballtalk.com/category/rumor-mill/

2004 First Round Draft Picks
DeAngelo Hall from Virginia Tech to the Falcons
Kevin Jones from Virginia Tech to the Lions
Michael Vick from Virginia Tech to the Falcons
http://www.accessmylibrary.com/coms2/summary_0286-9080021_ITM

Joey Harrington
Detroit Lions 2002-2005 Miami Dolphns 2006 Atlanta Falcons 2007
http://209.85.215.104/search?q=cache:M2brF8-6_WsJ:en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joey_Harrington+player+falcons+lions+2005&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=7&gl=us

Virginia Tech players drafted by the Falcons
2004 - DeAngelo Hall
2002 - Kevin McCadam
2000 - Anthony Midget
1998 - Ken Oxendine
http://www.hokiesports.com/football/recaps/04252005aaa.html

Drafted Virginia Tech Players
1998 - Ken Oxendine - Atlanta
2000 - Anthony Midget - Atlanta
2001 - Michael Vick - Atlanta
2002 - Kevin MCadam - Atlanta
2004 - Kevin Jones - Detroit
2004 - DeAngelo Hall - Atlanta
2006 - Jimmy Williams - Detroit
http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:0CQkuSbdnhoJ:www.hokiesports.com/football/2006MG/pros.pdf+virginia+tech+drafted+football+player+detroit+lions&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on September 01, 2008, 07:36:41 PM
Was DeAngelo Hall one of the party-goers with Michael Vick?

DeAngelo Hall was not cited after his pit bulls attacked a Lawrenceville, Georgia man  while the man was walking his dogs. The attack happened after Hall left the dogs with his brother, Tyrone Hall, a former Chicago Bears back-up fullback. The victim and his dog were treated for injuries and released.[2]

In the Falcons 2007 game against the New Orleans Saints, Hall showed his support for fellow Falcon Michael Vick  by carrying a poster of Vick onto the field with him, and also wearing "MV7" written on the shade under his eyes. Earlier that day, Vick, who was also a Virginia Tech teammate of Hall's, was sentenced to 23 months in prison on dogfighting charges. [3] Hall was fined $10,000 by the league for his actions.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DeAngelo_Hall

ATLANTA -- Atlanta Falcons defensive back DeAngelo Hall will not be cited after his pit bulls attacked a man while walking his dog. That attack happened Monday night along Stoney Field Place in Lawrenceville, after Hall left the dogs with his brother.
http://www.wsbtv.com/news/9653722/detail.html

And what about Oscar Allen?
 Oscar Allen, who sold a champion pit bull to suspended NFL quarterback Michael Vick's dogfighting operation, pleaded guilty in Richmond, Va., to a federal dogfighting charge.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/seahawks/2003973357_nfl25.html


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on September 01, 2008, 07:50:47 PM
There is definitely a pitbull or dog fighting operation here.  This is another very lucrative and sick gambling venture.  There is big, big money in dog fights.  It's interesting that Grey Whisperer knew about Michael Vic's activities long before the US authorities busted him.

Years ago, I purchased a home on several acres in NJ.  While walking my dog in the woods, I stumbled upon my new neighbor's pitbull business.  A large metal enclosure was where he held the fights and trained the pitbulls.  Many Pitbulls were on heavy chains throughout the woods.  It was a nightmare.  Aruba doesn't have a lot of wooded areas to hide something like this.  I wonder if it's literally underground where they keep and train the dogs.  Does LVR have more than one basement?  Could this be the cave for the rave?

I wonder if Michael Vic or one of his football friends was one of the party-goers.  How about the Detroit Lions?  Here we go Lala's and Mum - back to Michigan!

See pics here:
http://scaredmonkeys.com/2007/01/22/natalee-holloway-aruba-search-rave-cave-seach-june-2005-remember-the-search/

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=cave%20rave
cave rave party
URBAN DICTIONARY rave in a cave
 
1.  cave rave  14 up, 2 down
 1) A party where the majority of attendees are female
 2) The opposite of a "Sausage Fest"
"Who's gonna be at the party tonight?"
"Tammy, Sarah, Laura, Monifa, Shaniqua..."
"Sounds like a real Cave Rave."
party female women sausage fest girls penis party
by JohnoD Sep 4, 2006 email it 0 comments 

2.  cave rave  1 up, 3 down
 a gathering of selected party members, whom refuse to go to bed when the clubs pour them out at silly o'clock.

Key items needed are..
1. Some Decks/tunes/Dj's
2. Some mad raving loons to dance in the dingy depths of the cave
3. Candy
4. Horses
"Yeah, so i got home at about 3 the next afternoon, fair messy, fair sleep deprived."
"Who was there?"
"Well ya know, just the usual horses, just horsing around"
"Aaaah ya gotta love the cave rave


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on September 01, 2008, 08:06:23 PM
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/2007-07-17-vick-indicted_N.htm

The indictment Tuesday of Atlanta Falcons quarterback Michael Vick on charges of running a dogfighting operation includes gruesome allegations of executing poor-performing animals by hanging and electrocution.
____

Vick was indicted with three others by a federal grand jury in Virginia. Vick, Purnell A. Peace, Quanis L. Phillips and Tony Taylor are accused of staging often-fatal dogfights since at least 2002 through their Bad Newz Kennels on Vick's property in Surry County, Va.
____

The Surry property, purchased by Vick in 2001, was raided in April by police, who said they found 55 American pit bull terriers and equipment associated with dogfighting.

____

The 19-page indictment cites eyewitness accounts from three confidential witnesses. It alleges that in April about eight pit bulls were executed by Vick, Peace and Phillips by methods that included "hanging, drowning and slamming one dog's body to the ground."

It also says in March 2003 that Peace consulted with Vick about a female pit bull's condition after losing a fight and that execution followed.

Purses for fights staged on Vick's property are alleged to have been as high as $26,000 and to have drawn kennels from at least seven states.

___





Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on September 01, 2008, 08:38:03 PM
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/2007-07-17-vick-indicted_N.htm

The indictment Tuesday of Atlanta Falcons quarterback Michael Vick on charges of running a dogfighting operation includes gruesome allegations of executing poor-performing animals by hanging and electrocution.
____

Vick was indicted with three others by a federal grand jury in Virginia. Vick, Purnell A. Peace, Quanis L. Phillips and Tony Taylor are accused of staging often-fatal dogfights since at least 2002 through their Bad Newz Kennels on Vick's property in Surry County, Va.
____

The Surry property, purchased by Vick in 2001, was raided in April by police, who said they found 55 American pit bull terriers and equipment associated with dogfighting.

____

The 19-page indictment cites eyewitness accounts from three confidential witnesses. It alleges that in April about eight pit bulls were executed by Vick, Peace and Phillips by methods that included "hanging, drowning and slamming one dog's body to the ground."

It also says in March 2003 that Peace consulted with Vick about a female pit bull's condition after losing a fight and that execution followed.

Purses for fights staged on Vick's property are alleged to have been as high as $26,000 and to have drawn kennels from at least seven states.
___


I never realized the extent of this horrific 'sport'...

http://www.google.com/search?q=dog+fight+crackdown&hl=en&sa=2



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on September 02, 2008, 09:15:01 AM
Under Cover of Delusion...

The loud RAVE music would most certainly cover up the sounds of fighting dogs in the middle of the night...
Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 12:23 am
Follow the notes to the poison house where the children of the babylonians and the arawak nation meet, under cover of delusion. In the maze the lions which play shall be found. The gamblers also took note. Tell the cowboys.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on September 02, 2008, 11:10:31 PM
SS
Caps thought yellowhammer was a reference to another person of whom I won't mention because she has nothing to do with this at all other than her family is very wealthy and was on the trip also.  That is my opinion and not that of others who think she was involved in mistaken identity.

However, Caps theory is not without merit at all...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on September 04, 2008, 05:59:10 PM
SS
Caps thought yellowhammer was a reference to another person of whom I won't mention because she has nothing to do with this at all other than her family is very wealthy and was on the trip also.  That is my opinion and not that of others who think she was involved in mistaken identity.

However, Caps theory is not without merit at all...



Thanks Lala's - I remember that.  His theory involved a kidnapping plot and Natalee was the wrong girl.  He also confused the Yellowhammer of Alabama with the state bird of Virginia.  On the Caylee thread, you did some research about the "wine of Bacchus."  Was there a Shango/Simian reference to the wine of Bacchus at one point?  It sounds very familiar.

Poochy - Could they be referring to LVR's basement as "the rave cave"?  I can't imagine a group of party-goers dancing in a cave without electricity or amenities.  Do you suppose that the basement is a known congregation point for late night parties?  This would tie into Urine and the Pimps taking Natalee to LVR's basement after the Matty Apts. party.  Perhaps it was here that she came to from the drugs and started to struggle.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on September 04, 2008, 06:46:23 PM

Poochy - Could they be referring to LVR's basement as "the rave cave"?  I can't imagine a group of party-goers dancing in a cave without electricity or amenities.  Do you suppose that the basement is a known congregation point for late night parties?  This would tie into Urine and the Pimps taking Natalee to LVR's basement after the Matty Apts. party.  Perhaps it was here that she came to from the drugs and started to struggle.

I recall the H.I. was built on an old Indian something or other, and there were tunnels underneath. Hearsay perhaps, but I recall someone informing me about that.

Anybody who has a basement on Aruba could probably connect eventually with one of the 'tourist' caves as they are both underground.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on September 04, 2008, 08:11:53 PM

Poochy - Could they be referring to LVR's basement as "the rave cave"?  I can't imagine a group of party-goers dancing in a cave without electricity or amenities.  Do you suppose that the basement is a known congregation point for late night parties?  This would tie into Urine and the Pimps taking Natalee to LVR's basement after the Matty Apts. party.  Perhaps it was here that she came to from the drugs and started to struggle.

I recall the H.I. was built on an old Indian something or other, and there were tunnels underneath. Hearsay perhaps, but I recall someone informing me about that.

Anybody who has a basement on Aruba could probably connect eventually with one of the 'tourist' caves as they are both underground.


"See how the dead-ends meet?"    = Could this be referring to a basement wall and a cave/tunnel wall? 

Merian Ernest 7/26/05 9:47am
See how the dead-ends meet? Like the Simian said. There is little to fear as the Babylonians are swinging the scepter still.  The Simian does not boast. Tread slowly as the Hindus were brutal during the confrontation. Who stuck to their story after all?  The Yellowhammer has flown, but the bifrons is not on the loose. The silent antennas have spoken, but they have forked tongues too. Who will sit in Damocles’ chair?

It is dark in a cave:
Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 2:50 am
The babylonian and the shivas did not build castles in the sand. they lost to the lions. dirty hand knows. the elder knows. and so do the Arawaks. the cowboys are far from the house of Babylon.  the maze shall remain dark to all but the arawak nation and the elders.

The Maze:
- It is open to all (as in a tourist cave?)
- Arawaks hide the path to it (for the Babylonians)
- May also be referred to as the 'damned corridors'
- it is difficult for supposed guilty, even if innocent (It is difficult for Joran)
- Halls/hallways may suddenly twist to accomodate cowboys walking in it  (cave walls that open/close to secret pathways?)
- A dirty cop (poison siren) was in the 'halls'.
- Alot of unrest going on in the 'halls' in the weeks after her disappearance.
- The ones who can open up the doors to it live in the conuco.
- the judges (robed ones) will squeeze an escape thru pasageways in it used once before
- the elder knows the passages in it
- it remains dark to all but the arawak nation and the elders


Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:55 pm
Why do they leave the Maze open? Why hasn’t an Arawak probed it’s fetid depths. Tell the Cowboys! The Arawaks are hiding the path to the Maze for the Babylonians.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:45 pm
All who enter the damned corridors of the houses of Babylon know the dangers that await.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:26 pm
The maze of Babylon is very difficult for the supposed guilty, even if innocent.  The Arawaks cannot reveal their singing card.  many teepees would be destroyed and the cowboys would get upset.  the singing card is bad luck for wampum for many moons.  So there must be some type of sacrifice.  The gods are hungry, the cowboys are hungry.  Great disruption in the halls of babylonian palace

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:58 pm
Halls of the house of babylon may suddenly twist to accomodate cowboys walking in the maze. No loot, but many answers. Better twisted hallways than fallen houses. Many invisible spirits around Arawak Fires. Many gods watching. we must have a sacrifice. Light the fires!

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:22 pm
Because the fallen judge agreed, he can sing any song he wants. A poisonous siren in the halls of Babylon. He will sing to keep doors open, much to the cowboys distress.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:42 pm
Arawaks hold singing card from Babylon.  There is also a trio. One Babylonian. 2 Shivas. Arawaks can’t let babylonian Card sing because hand holding it dirty too. Many teepees fall. No Wampum. Cowboys eat Sacrifice. Arawaks eat sacrifice. Dirty hand stays hidden, but all are well-fed. Cowboys happy, but unrest in the halls of the palace. Babylon owes the Arawaks!

Merian Ernest 7/26/05 3:51pm
The Multi fractions spell democracy to the Simian. The tyranny of duality does not live in the conuco. Yes or no are not the only answers.  Pick up the pieces and make an island. Only the one who chopped it down understands. Sell your convictions to try and understand. Start anew, a new man. Who says the one who broke is the one who knows? Look by the haystack in the small hours. They live in the conuco, but they are the only ones who can open the palace doors. The federales should be careful not to grease the palace floors. The robed ones will squeeze an escape through passageways used once before.  The checkmate is the same the tables might have turned. There are no donkeys or mules in chess only horses.

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:52 pm
The elder agreed to speak, but he loves the boy too much. he knows the passages of the palace too well. So the Babylonians must make sure the check mate is iron-clad. Something rotten from The Hague will have to make the third act play out.

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:10 pm
The last hope rests on the shoulders of the cowboys. Ten days, two down, eight to go. The elder knows the passages in the palace too well. The Babylonians are afraid they might not be able to stop him. Don’t shake the wire, ‘cause the bird will fy away.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on September 04, 2008, 08:55:03 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRK-CQVQevQ


Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:26 pm
The maze of Babylon is very difficult for the supposed guilty, even if innocent



Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:27 pm
The elder had to come clean. He knows what damage he had caused. The Simian said to not shake the wire, ‘cause the bird would fly away.
The Simian would never pose. Go back and read what the Simian wrote. The Babylonians knows what happened, but they are up in arms. The gamblers knew the girl.
 (they knew the girl, she spent her nights at their tables-all they knew was written down-the gamblers also "took note"....poison note$)

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:30 pm
Who knows what song the elder will sing
[note: which song?]
 
[to know: owe....who did she owe?]
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:31 pm
The shivas knew the girl                        (?)
the arawaks new the girl                        (?)
and the babylonians still know the girl      (?)

repeating for emphasis:
 Go back and read what the Simian wrote. The Babylonians knows what happened, but they are up in arms. The gamblers knew the girl.
 (they knew the girl, she spent her nights at their tables)

Shango: Why did the girl owe money?




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on September 04, 2008, 09:47:05 PM
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:22 pm
Because the fallen judge agreed, he can sing any song he wants. A poisonous siren [epilepsy?] in the halls of Babylon. He will sing to keep doors open, much to the cowboys distress.

if sirens sing a poison song all will get sick

who gave mary the poison wine of Bacchus?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on September 04, 2008, 09:48:00 PM
poison note$

a poisonous siren

why did the girl owe money?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on September 04, 2008, 11:42:38 PM
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:22 pm
Because the fallen judge agreed, he can sing any song he wants. A poisonous siren [epilepsy?] in the halls of Babylon. He will sing to keep doors open, much to the cowboys distress.

if sirens sing a poison song all will get sick

who gave mary the poison wine of Bacchus?

poison note$

a poisonous siren

why did the girl owe money?


Colombo -  Not sure if I agree that poison siren = epilepsy....but that is just my opinion.

I think a "siren" is either a woman who "lures" or a "siren" is a bad cop.

I think "poison" refers to excess alcohol, drugs or both.

Bacchus is the 'god of wine'.

So "poison wine of Bacchus" = drug laced drink (IMO).

SIREN = Noun 1. Siren - a sea nymph (part woman and part bird) supposed to lure sailors to destruction on the rocks where the nymphs lived; "Odysseus ordered his crew to plug their ears so they would not hear the Siren's fatal song"
sea nymph - (Greek mythology) a water nymph who was the daughter of Oceanus or Nereus or ENCHANTRESS?

POISON  = Noun
1. a substance that causes death or injury when swallowed or absorbed
2. something that destroys or corrupts: the poison of Nazism
Verb
1. to give poison to someone
2. to add poison to something

3. to have a harmful or evil effect on
4. (foll. by against)to turn (a person's mind) against: he poisoned her mind against me [Latin potio a drink, esp. a poisonous one] poisoner n

Ok, back to your quotes - so, POISON - siren (either cop or 'temptress').

"POISON NOTES" =gambling/pay up/ca$ino table debt promissary notes to be paid up NOW - before they (MBers) leave the island?

"...Why did she owe money"...but wasn't it RUTH, not NATALEE, who owed the money, and Joran helped get SOME of it back? So is this a case of mistaken identiy - Ruth vs Natalee?

Google Dionysus Aruba = interesting website:
http://www.hoteis-pousadas.com.br/travel-tourism/aruba_panama.htm



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on September 05, 2008, 04:29:39 AM
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:22 pm
Because the fallen judge agreed, he can sing any song he wants. A poisonous siren [epilepsy?] in the halls of Babylon. He will sing to keep doors open, much to the cowboys distress.

if sirens sing a poison song all will get sick

who gave mary the poison wine of Bacchus?

poison note$

a poisonous siren

why did the girl owe money?


Colombo -  Not sure if I agree that poison siren = epilepsy....but that is just my opinion.

I think a "siren" is either a woman who "lures" or a "siren" is a bad cop.

I think "poison" refers to excess alcohol, drugs or both.

Bacchus is the 'god of wine'.

So "poison wine of Bacchus" = drug laced drink (IMO).

SIREN = Noun 1. Siren - a sea nymph (part woman and part bird) supposed to lure sailors to destruction on the rocks where the nymphs lived; "Odysseus ordered his crew to plug their ears so they would not hear the Siren's fatal song"
sea nymph - (Greek mythology) a water nymph who was the daughter of Oceanus or Nereus or ENCHANTRESS?

POISON  = Noun
1. a substance that causes death or injury when swallowed or absorbed
2. something that destroys or corrupts: the poison of Nazism
Verb
1. to give poison to someone
2. to add poison to something

3. to have a harmful or evil effect on
4. (foll. by against)to turn (a person's mind) against: he poisoned her mind against me [Latin potio a drink, esp. a poisonous one] poisoner n

Ok, back to your quotes - so, POISON - siren (either cop or 'temptress').

"POISON NOTES" =gambling/pay up/ca$ino table debt promissary notes to be paid up NOW - before they (MBers) leave the island?

"...Why did she owe money"...but wasn't it RUTH, not NATALEE, who owed the money, and Joran helped get SOME of it back? So is this a case of mistaken identiy - Ruth vs Natalee?

Google Dionysus Aruba = interesting website:
http://www.hoteis-pousadas.com.br/travel-tourism/aruba_panama.htm



if sirens sing a poison song all will get sick.......not sure, but wasn't this in ref to Beth & Greta?

as far as owing money, I do not believe that this was the case as she was leaving C&C....we would need to know more about what ultimately happened......whether she was accused of that, or somehow manipulated into that situation......or was "supposedly guilty, even if innocent"........Shango doesn't place them at the beach


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on September 05, 2008, 04:32:10 AM
Poochy:

to one of your latter points:

poisonous siren
poison notes
poison house
ill repute and poison notes
why did the girl owe money?
poison song


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on September 05, 2008, 05:48:50 PM
At 9:00 tonight, the National Geographic station is doing a one hour special on Michael Vick's pitbulls and how dog trainers are attempting to rehabilitate them.  From what I saw on the promo, some of the dogs are pretty torn up physically.  Lots of scars and damage.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on September 05, 2008, 05:57:13 PM
who gave mary the poison wine of Bacchus?

Lala's - I think you have hit on something from the Caylee thread - chloroform used for rape.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on September 09, 2008, 12:33:57 PM
Posted by Johan in the NAH thread....regarding Paulus...

Re: Natalee Case Discussion #768 9/9 through 9/
« Reply #6 on: Today at 11:09:47 AM » Quote 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
He was "Lands Advocate" that means that he worked for the Aruban Government .
Normally they do the "dirty" work for the Government !
As a normal citizen it is not easy to fight with this kind of lawyers because they have "All" the time of the world and money.
dirty pittbull's
He was never  a real judge  but a judge in training  and for particular reasons they quit with him.
Now he is a simple lawyer in a very small office
In Holland he was a social lawyer  ,that means that a client don't have to pay him .

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=3332.msg443303#top




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on September 09, 2008, 06:26:11 PM
Posted by Johan in the NAH thread....regarding Paulus...

Re: Natalee Case Discussion #768 9/9 through 9/
« Reply #6 on: Today at 11:09:47 AM » Quote 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
He was "Lands Advocate" that means that he worked for the Aruban Government .
Normally they do the "dirty" work for the Government !
As a normal citizen it is not easy to fight with this kind of lawyers because they have "All" the time of the world and money.
dirty pittbull's
He was never  a real judge  but a judge in training  and for particular reasons they quit with him.
Now he is a simple lawyer in a very small office
In Holland he was a social lawyer  ,that means that a client don't have to pay him .

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=3332.msg443303#top





was he on time for school? wonder if his schoolmates would say that he has a history of making himself something he's not (a judge, maybe?)...........


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on September 09, 2008, 08:21:37 PM
Even if you play cards in the house of babylon as an arawak, you still have DirtyHand.






Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on September 09, 2008, 11:46:46 PM
who gave mary the poison wine of Bacchus?

Lala's - I think you have hit on something from the Caylee thread - chloroform used for rape.

I always thought it was something like a drug put in her drink...but it could have been something like chloroform after all the reading I have done on it...I kept seeing that term used....it really caught my attention. 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on September 10, 2008, 07:37:51 AM
Posted by Johan in the NAH thread....regarding Paulus...

Re: Natalee Case Discussion #768 9/9 through 9/
« Reply #6 on: Today at 11:09:47 AM » Quote 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
He was "Lands Advocate" that means that he worked for the Aruban Government .
Normally they do the "dirty" work for the Government !
As a normal citizen it is not easy to fight with this kind of lawyers because they have "All" the time of the world and money.
dirty pittbull's
He was never  a real judge  but a judge in training  and for particular reasons they quit with him.
Now he is a simple lawyer in a very small office
In Holland he was a social lawyer  ,that means that a client don't have to pay him .

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=3332.msg443303#top





was he on time for school? wonder if his schoolmates would say that he has a history of making himself something he's not (a judge, maybe?)...........



If I recall, we were told that the one who was not on time for school was Paulass.  I think he was teaching a class at the college.  We were all confused for a long time because we thought that it was Urine who was late for school.  I think it was Paulass who was late.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on September 10, 2008, 06:16:10 PM
Posted by Johan in the NAH thread....regarding Paulus...

Re: Natalee Case Discussion #768 9/9 through 9/
« Reply #6 on: Today at 11:09:47 AM » Quote 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
He was "Lands Advocate" that means that he worked for the Aruban Government .
Normally they do the "dirty" work for the Government !
As a normal citizen it is not easy to fight with this kind of lawyers because they have "All" the time of the world and money.
dirty pittbull's
He was never  a real judge  but a judge in training  and for particular reasons they quit with him.
Now he is a simple lawyer in a very small office
In Holland he was a social lawyer  ,that means that a client don't have to pay him .

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=3332.msg443303#top





was he on time for school? wonder if his schoolmates would say that he has a history of making himself something he's not (a judge, maybe?)...........



If I recall, we were told that the one who was not on time for school was Paulass.  I think he was teaching a class at the college.  We were all confused for a long time because we thought that it was Urine who was late for school.  I think it was Paulass who was late.


apparently you were not the only one.......

Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 10:36 am
The boy was picked up at 23:00 on Sunday at Mickey D’s. Sneaked out later. Was on time for school. Don’t mix things up.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on September 10, 2008, 10:26:06 PM
Posted by Johan in the NAH thread....regarding Paulus...

Re: Natalee Case Discussion #768 9/9 through 9/
« Reply #6 on: Today at 11:09:47 AM » Quote 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
He was "Lands Advocate" that means that he worked for the Aruban Government .
Normally they do the "dirty" work for the Government !
As a normal citizen it is not easy to fight with this kind of lawyers because they have "All" the time of the world and money.
dirty pittbull's
He was never  a real judge  but a judge in training  and for particular reasons they quit with him.
Now he is a simple lawyer in a very small office
In Holland he was a social lawyer  ,that means that a client don't have to pay him .

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=3332.msg443303#top





was he on time for school? wonder if his schoolmates would say that he has a history of making himself something he's not (a judge, maybe?)...........



If I recall, we were told that the one who was not on time for school was Paulass.  I think he was teaching a class at the college.  We were all confused for a long time because we thought that it was Urine who was late for school.  I think it was Paulass who was late.


apparently you were not the only one.......

Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 10:36 am
The boy was picked up at 23:00 on Sunday at Mickey D’s. Sneaked out later. Was on time for school. Don’t mix things up.

Deepak (to Joran) : Your own father, unbelievable.

"GUY" vs. "BOY":

June 22nd, 2005 at 5:38 pm
check me…check this…and please recheck:

Girl comes to Aruba.
Meets cool and crazy guy in C@$ino.
Goes out with him.
He declares that to be the case.
Can’t deny it. It’s on tape.
Everybody in the C@$ino knows the group of teens, they have been drinking in there for free the whole week.

After a couple of days girl meets another boy in the same C@$ino.
Goes out with him.
This makes first guy really mad.
So mad he  confronts second boy.

First guy never denies the affair.
He knows they know he was with her.
However, he has an airtight alibi.
Some friends say they were at home with him. Until the morning.
How can this ever be solved?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on September 11, 2008, 06:30:26 AM
lol pooch.....

who heeded his call.......who switched places?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on September 11, 2008, 11:21:50 AM
lol pooch.....

who heeded his call.......who switched places?

lol colombo....why don't YOU

SAY IT .... SAY IT.... SAY IT..... (sorry, a little "back to school" moment there ) hahaha



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on September 11, 2008, 06:01:00 PM
Posted by Johan in the NAH thread....regarding Paulus...

Re: Natalee Case Discussion #768 9/9 through 9/
« Reply #6 on: Today at 11:09:47 AM » Quote 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
He was "Lands Advocate" that means that he worked for the Aruban Government .
Normally they do the "dirty" work for the Government !
As a normal citizen it is not easy to fight with this kind of lawyers because they have "All" the time of the world and money.
dirty pittbull's
He was never  a real judge  but a judge in training  and for particular reasons they quit with him.
Now he is a simple lawyer in a very small office
In Holland he was a social lawyer  ,that means that a client don't have to pay him .

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=3332.msg443303#top





was he on time for school? wonder if his schoolmates would say that he has a history of making himself something he's not (a judge, maybe?)...........



If I recall, we were told that the one who was not on time for school was Paulass.  I think he was teaching a class at the college.  We were all confused for a long time because we thought that it was Urine who was late for school.  I think it was Paulass who was late.


apparently you were not the only one.......

Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 10:36 am
The boy was picked up at 23:00 on Sunday at Mickey D’s. Sneaked out later. Was on time for school. Don’t mix things up.

Deepak (to Joran) : Your own father, unbelievable.

"GUY" vs. "BOY":

June 22nd, 2005 at 5:38 pm
check me…check this…and please recheck:

Girl comes to Aruba.
Meets cool and crazy guy in C@$ino.
Goes out with him.
He declares that to be the case.
Can’t deny it. It’s on tape.
Everybody in the C@$ino knows the group of teens, they have been drinking in there for free the whole week.

After a couple of days girl meets another boy in the same C@$ino.
Goes out with him.
This makes first guy really mad.
So mad he  confronts second boy.

First guy never denies the affair.
He knows they know he was with her.
However, he has an airtight alibi.
Some friends say they were at home with him. Until the morning.
How can this ever be solved?




The guy vs. boy terminology has always been a red flag for me.  He seems to be implying that the cool and crazy guy was older than Urine and the boys.  Natalee was also described as being at the Holiday Inn bar with a local man, by Elizabeth Cain.  From Elizabeth's perspective, this must be someone older than Elizabeth and her peers.  This is one of the reasons why I have considered LVR, though I'm still not completely sure.  LVR was older than Urine and the Pimps.  This is why I feel that the video tapes that have been discussed are from the Holiday Inn and not the ones from the casino that we are familiar with.  There is no way that Natalee had an affair with Paulass.  I feel that Elizabeth saw the person who is the 5th suspect.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: finngirl on September 12, 2008, 12:25:28 AM
The guy vs. boy terminology has always been a red flag for me.  He seems to be implying that the cool and crazy guy was older than Urine and the boys.  Natalee was also described as being at the Holiday Inn bar with a local man, by Elizabeth Cain.  From Elizabeth's perspective, this must be someone older than Elizabeth and her peers.  This is one of the reasons why I have considered LVR, though I'm still not completely sure.  LVR was older than Urine and the Pimps.  This is why I feel that the video tapes that have been discussed are from the Holiday Inn and not the ones from the casino that we are familiar with.  There is no way that Natalee had an affair with Paulass.  I feel that Elizabeth saw the person who is the 5th suspect.

yes to all of the above, IMO



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on September 12, 2008, 08:22:54 AM
The guy vs. boy terminology has always been a red flag for me.  He seems to be implying that the cool and crazy guy was older than Urine and the boys.  Natalee was also described as being at the Holiday Inn bar with a local man, by Elizabeth Cain.  From Elizabeth's perspective, this must be someone older than Elizabeth and her peers.  This is one of the reasons why I have considered LVR, though I'm still not completely sure.  LVR was older than Urine and the Pimps.  This is why I feel that the video tapes that have been discussed are from the Holiday Inn and not the ones from the casino that we are familiar with.  There is no way that Natalee had an affair with Paulass.  I feel that Elizabeth saw the person who is the 5th suspect.

yes to all of the above, IMO




Paulass is always described as "the fallen judge", etc.  The use of "cool and crazy guy"  is so very different from "fallen judge".  This just screams to me that Paulass is not the same person as the guy from earlier in the week which means that he isn't the 5th.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on September 12, 2008, 08:30:44 AM
The guy vs. boy terminology has always been a red flag for me.  He seems to be implying that the cool and crazy guy was older than Urine and the boys.  Natalee was also described as being at the Holiday Inn bar with a local man, by Elizabeth Cain.  From Elizabeth's perspective, this must be someone older than Elizabeth and her peers.  This is one of the reasons why I have considered LVR, though I'm still not completely sure.  LVR was older than Urine and the Pimps.  This is why I feel that the video tapes that have been discussed are from the Holiday Inn and not the ones from the casino that we are familiar with.  There is no way that Natalee had an affair with Paulass.  I feel that Elizabeth saw the person who is the 5th suspect.

yes to all of the above, IMO




Paulass is always described as "the fallen judge", etc.  The use of "cool and crazy guy"  is so very different from "fallen judge".  This just screams to me that Paulass is not the same person as the guy from earlier in the week which means that he isn't the 5th.

I agree SS...Simian and Shango are two different stories...Simian has his 5th. and Shango the Dirty Hands.

I do think Paulus' hands are dirty!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on September 12, 2008, 08:34:31 AM
The guy vs. boy terminology has always been a red flag for me.  He seems to be implying that the cool and crazy guy was older than Urine and the boys.  Natalee was also described as being at the Holiday Inn bar with a local man, by Elizabeth Cain.  From Elizabeth's perspective, this must be someone older than Elizabeth and her peers.  This is one of the reasons why I have considered LVR, though I'm still not completely sure.  LVR was older than Urine and the Pimps.  This is why I feel that the video tapes that have been discussed are from the Holiday Inn and not the ones from the casino that we are familiar with.  There is no way that Natalee had an affair with Paulass.  I feel that Elizabeth saw the person who is the 5th suspect.

yes to all of the above, IMO




Paulass is always described as "the fallen judge", etc.  The use of "cool and crazy guy"  is so very different from "fallen judge".  This just screams to me that Paulass is not the same person as the guy from earlier in the week which means that he isn't the 5th.


Yup.
The kiddies were so scared they 'fled' Paradise. I doubt it was for fear of Paulas' sweatin' bullets.

Mystery man/guy. IMHO I believe someone else was also picked up - the '5th' - and held at a different prison. If you recall, several key folks disappeared for a while at the time Natalee went missing, then reappeared with alibi's no one on this board really had checked out - or could check out.  ::MonkeyCool::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on September 12, 2008, 10:05:29 PM
 Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
Nobody is a boob. The alibi needs to be destroyed. Daddy knows who was there. He has answers too. ("Daddy" was there......who switched places....who is the link?)

Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
Did you ever ask your buddies to cover for you? Would they? Did they ever? Would they do it if they really knew what went on?

Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
Was I the one who was speculative? My story was not about the boys. Don’t dismiss if you can’t remember. Are you asking for a refresher?




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on September 12, 2008, 10:54:24 PM
Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
Nobody is a boob. The alibi needs to be destroyed. Daddy knows who was there. He has answers too. ("Daddy" was there......who switched places....who is the link?)

Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
Did you ever ask your buddies to cover for you? Would they? Did they ever? Would they do it if they really knew what went on?

Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
Was I the one who was speculative? My story was not about the boys. Don’t dismiss if you can’t remember. Are you asking for a refresher?
http://www.hyscience.com/archives/2005/08/saturday_night_1.php
Curtoursy Harry Tho ....

Also, Tito Lacle in a Scared Monkeys' interview (also on Friday) revealed the missing Excelsior casino manager is a guy named Michael Posner. This is an interesting tidbit, because Posner and Joran were associates. If I am not mistaken, some of Natalee's girlfriends mentioned seeing Natalee talking with this guy in the Excelsior casino. Now, this guy went missing, or unavailable, at about the same time that Natalee was determined to be missing. Whether we can rely on this information or not is questionable, but according to Twitty-Holloway group, it is this casino manger that gave Joran open gambling credit lines at the Excelsior Casino. Tito Lacle only confirms that Joran frequented casinos. The fact that Posner and Natalee went missing during the same week is too much of a coincidence to overlook. Posner would have had all the connections at his disposal to scoop Natalee out of Aruba unnoticed.Yet, Posner's name never seems to surface in any news interview or blog post. Another acquaintance of Natalee's in Aruba is this mysterious guy named Lorenzo. Tito Lacle in a Scared Monkeys' interview revealed this Loranzo's name is Wever and that he had left for Holland. Lorenzo supposedly dined with Natalee a few days before her disappearance. Some posters on another blog contended that Loranzo had a drug connections. To my knowledge, police interviewed Lorenzo during the first month after Natalee's disappearance. I find this last name of Lorenzo - Wever, interesting, because in the early days of the investigation he was referred to as Lorenzo van Rihn or something like that.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on September 13, 2008, 10:54:49 PM
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:48 pm
The card of babylon was already played
if it sings, DirtyHand will bring down the Royal House on top of the Arawak Nation
the gods have handed down a pipe of peace, but a sacrifice will be made
Some elders of the game, not just of babylon walk in older circles
cowboys hear the singing, but the words are not understood
The gods and the babylonians are worried about the cowboys response
pg 4-"THE GAME:"     http://www.ca11.uscourts.gov/opinions/ops/200214306.pdf


[not just of babylon-all houses-houses of Arawaks, houses of rave (lions)]

Even if you play cards in the house of babylon as an arawak, you still have DirtyHand. (DirtyHand knows-so does the elder!)

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:01 pm
Arawaks often go to play in small houses of Babylon with the offspring of the Elders

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 2:50 pm
This is bad. Really bad…He has a history of making himself be something he is not.   [Arawak]




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on September 14, 2008, 11:31:24 AM
Just posted on the front page, for those who didn't read it:


Richard to Poochy (#37) … What I still fail to understand is … if this guy Simian really knew something definite (and in light of this new witness, these comments sound very interesting, though perhaps he made others that pointed elsewhere), and wanted to give clues …

Why in the world was he being so elliptical? Why not just send a message to the FBI or to Natalee’s parents saying, “Look here.”

Some people say he/she may have been afraid to come forth openly. Well, in that case, why do this cloak-and-dagger stuff at all?

It’s all part of the mystery that convinces me that something deeper is going on.

------------------------------------------------------------------
Poochy to Richard (#39),

I think ‘Simian’ is an ALE family member or friend who heard daily case details discussed and posted in a code which they thought was in fact very easy to understand. The FBI knows exactly what is going on. That picture in the news of Beth and Condi Rice was a stern warning to someone to get things resolved. They all heard what happened – there is a SETI satellite in Aruba (aka ‘dots on a dish’).

It was posted on many boards that heroin is the main export of Aruba and that Aruba is a ‘trampoline’ island. Joran was identified early on as a ‘big drug dealer’ . Maybe he can identify dealers and those who package, ship, sail, and fly it off the island. I laughed when I read Deepak stating that the floor boards of his car were glued down so tight “due to the speaker wires” (yeah right). Perhaps those significant others’ are offspring of the Elders, and maybe even some of the ones who fled off that island.

But one code talker ‘greywhisper’ posted “We all know the export IS NOT THE DRUGS, Texan. Find the real export in the middle of the island and you will find the answers you seek.” Based on the mysterious disappearance of Amy Bradley and Max DeVries, I’d say the export is not only heroin but human slavery.

So Richard, here are my thoughts on why this case cannot be solved yet. I think there are TWO major battles taking place within Aruba (and I’m sure many other battles like “Sumerian vs. Babylonian intrusion” but IMHO that battle does not contribute to this unsolved case).

BATTLE #1: This battle is between Joran, Paulus and the Elders and their offspring (maybe some of the ones who fled Aruba just after she went missing). If Joran goes down all the other Elder offspring go down with him. And that is why all the evidence against Joran continues to go missing.

BATTLE #2: This battle is between the drug lords and Aruba officials, basically Oduber. The drug lords are continuing to lose mucho $ with all eyes focusing on Arbua due to this case. The Oduber grave rattling was a warning from the drug lords to ‘the Elders’ to give it up already and end the case (IMO). But they can’t their hands are tied. If Joran goes down, they all go down.

Codetalkers mention ‘Dirty Hand’ - someone who is alive and well (as opposed to someone who we thought was dead or very ill). My guess is that’s who they are all afraid of. The island is very tiny. Any drug ring could easily take over 195 sq kilometers and stuff all the officials and LE in their pocket. It is so small everybody knows everybody.

This chess game is now against the ‘king’ but it is at a stalemate (the King is not under attack and a player has no legal moves and is not in check).


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on September 14, 2008, 08:30:25 PM
Simian Says: June 28th, 2005 at 2:09 am
The Simian is disapointed. The Simian repeats himself seldom, but like to say the he only reports ahead of time. The clues were solely to avoid implicating sources. Never to hurt the feeling of the readers.
Seeing how this has been used to foul, the Simian will again say that he will retire.

 # # # # # # # # # #

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:29 pm
I did not say an ex. Do you people read? I not into repeating myself.

[feels need to repeat himself]
Girl comes to Aruba. Meets cool and crazy guy in C@$ino. Goes out with him. He declares that to be the case. Can’t deny it. It’s on tape.  Everybody in the C@$ino knows the group of teens, they have been drinking in there for free the whole week. After a couple of days girl meets another boy in the same C@$ino. Goes out with him.
Simian: This makes first guy really mad. So mad he confronts second boy.
First guy never denies the affair. He knows they know he was with her. However, he has an airtight alibi. Some friends say they were at home with him. Until the morning.
How can this ever be solved?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on September 14, 2008, 08:31:30 PM
http://www.cat69.com/


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on September 14, 2008, 09:21:32 PM
http://www.cat69.com/
Colombo, why did you post this link? How relevant is it to Natalee's disappearance?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on September 14, 2008, 09:57:01 PM
while we're on the subject of Carribean 'exports'.........


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on September 15, 2008, 08:29:22 AM
while we're on the subject of Carribean 'exports'.........
Oh, ok then.

Do you think those 'exports' on those resorts are there against their will?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on September 15, 2008, 05:13:16 PM
while we're on the subject of Carribean 'exports'.........
Oh, ok then.

Do you think those 'exports' on those resorts are there against their will?


pg 4-"THE GAME:"     http://www.ca11.uscourts.gov/opinions/ops/200214306.pdf


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on September 15, 2008, 05:16:37 PM
re: NH

"but it was not a game
the lamb ran bleating
afraid to walk through the maze"

"the maze is difficult for the supposed guilty, even if innocent"
(ask a fallen judge)



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on September 18, 2008, 01:31:48 PM
Simian Says: June 28th, 2005 at 2:09 am
The Simian is disapointed. The Simian repeats himself seldom[/b], but like to say the he only reports ahead of time. The clues were solely to avoid implicating sources. Never to hurt the feeling of the readers.
Seeing how this has been used to foul, the Simian will again say that he will retire.

 # # # # # # # # # #

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:29 pm
I did not say an ex. Do you people read? I not into repeating myself.

[feels need to repeat himself]
Girl comes to Aruba. Meets cool and crazy guy in C@$ino. Goes out with him. He declares that to be the case. Can’t deny it. It’s on tape.  Everybody in the C@$ino knows the group of teens, they have been drinking in there for free the whole week. After a couple of days girl meets another boy in the same C@$ino. Goes out with him.
Simian: This makes first guy really mad. So mad he confronts second boy.
First guy never denies the affair. He knows they know he was with her. However, he has an airtight alibi. Some friends say they were at home with him. Until the morning.
How can this ever be solved?


Yeah.  When they began mimicking him he morphed into Merian and I am sure a few other people as well. 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on September 18, 2008, 01:34:04 PM
I am surprised no one has latched onto the Paulus as the 5th suspect yet again...things are beginning to point in his direction as the 5th. 

Left the party...came to pickup Joran..party goers were the alibi....how could he have left...it was a simple party at his house...etc.

Are you guys falling down on the job again...where are my pencils? :roll:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on September 18, 2008, 02:11:56 PM
I am surprised no one has latched onto the Paulus as the 5th suspect yet again...things are beginning to point in his direction as the 5th. 

Left the party...came to pickup Joran..party goers were the alibi....how could he have left...it was a simple party at his house...etc.

Are you guys falling down on the job again...where are my pencils? :roll:

Or the simple party was at or behind the matty apts, (Deepak to Joran "...your own father") and all the party goers turned the other way... the partygoers must be pinched!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Rob on September 18, 2008, 04:44:19 PM
I am surprised no one has latched onto the Paulus as the 5th suspect yet again...things are beginning to point in his direction as the 5th. 

Left the party...came to pickup Joran..party goers were the alibi....how could he have left...it was a simple party at his house...etc.

Are you guys falling down on the job again...where are my pencils? :roll:

Colombo and I have been saying forever that Paulus is the fifth.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on September 18, 2008, 05:34:37 PM
the alibi STORY is just the latest

sometimes friends cover for each other



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on September 18, 2008, 05:35:17 PM
"partygoers" pinched.........for perjury?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on September 18, 2008, 05:35:36 PM
that would break the alibi


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on September 18, 2008, 07:50:12 PM
I am surprised no one has latched onto the Paulus as the 5th suspect yet again...things are beginning to point in his direction as the 5th. 

Left the party...came to pickup Joran..party goers were the alibi....how could he have left...it was a simple party at his house...etc.

Are you guys falling down on the job again...where are my pencils? :roll:

Colombo and I have been saying forever that Paulus is the fifth.

Still don't think Paulus was ever Natalee's boyfriend...but by now it doesn't matter.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on September 18, 2008, 08:17:50 PM
Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
Nobody is a boob. The alibi needs to be destroyed. Daddy knows who was there. He has answers too. ("Daddy" was there......who switched places....who is the link?)

Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
Did you ever ask your buddies to cover for you? Would they? Did they ever? Would they do it if they really knew what went on?

Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
Was I the one who was speculative? My story was not about the boys. Don’t dismiss if you can’t remember. Are you asking for a refresher?
http://www.hyscience.com/archives/2005/08/saturday_night_1.php
Curtoursy Harry Tho ....

Also, Tito Lacle in a Scared Monkeys' interview (also on Friday) revealed the missing Excelsior casino manager is a guy named Michael Posner. This is an interesting tidbit, because Posner and Joran were associates. If I am not mistaken, some of Natalee's girlfriends mentioned seeing Natalee talking with this guy in the Excelsior casino. Now, this guy went missing, or unavailable, at about the same time that Natalee was determined to be missing. Whether we can rely on this information or not is questionable, but according to Twitty-Holloway group, it is this casino manger that gave Joran open gambling credit lines at the Excelsior Casino. Tito Lacle only confirms that Joran frequented casinos. The fact that Posner and Natalee went missing during the same week is too much of a coincidence to overlook. Posner would have had all the connections at his disposal to scoop Natalee out of Aruba unnoticed.Yet, Posner's name never seems to surface in any news interview or blog post. Another acquaintance of Natalee's in Aruba is this mysterious guy named Lorenzo. Tito Lacle in a Scared Monkeys' interview revealed this Loranzo's name is Wever and that he had left for Holland. Lorenzo supposedly dined with Natalee a few days before her disappearance. Some posters on another blog contended that Loranzo had a drug connections. To my knowledge, police interviewed Lorenzo during the first month after Natalee's disappearance. I find this last name of Lorenzo - Wever, interesting, because in the early days of the investigation he was referred to as Lorenzo van Rihn or something like that.



Lorenzo van Rijn is a crazy drug dealer who is also reported to be the illegitimate son of Paulass.  He and Urine are close.  Lorenzo has a lot of money and lives in his own fortified house.  He is older that Urine.  Guido Wever is the croupier from the casino who left for Holland.  Guido is reported to be gay.  Both of these two were supposedly involved in the video party with Natalee at the Matty Apts.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on September 18, 2008, 08:26:42 PM
I am surprised no one has latched onto the Paulus as the 5th suspect yet again...things are beginning to point in his direction as the 5th. 

Left the party...came to pickup Joran..party goers were the alibi....how could he have left...it was a simple party at his house...etc.

Are you guys falling down on the job again...where are my pencils? :roll:

Colombo and I have been saying forever that Paulus is the fifth.

My gut still tells me LVR.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on September 18, 2008, 08:42:17 PM
I am surprised no one has latched onto the Paulus as the 5th suspect yet again...things are beginning to point in his direction as the 5th. 

Left the party...came to pickup Joran..party goers were the alibi....how could he have left...it was a simple party at his house...etc.

Are you guys falling down on the job again...where are my pencils? :roll:

Colombo and I have been saying forever that Paulus is the fifth.

My gut still tells me LVR.


who is DirtyHand?




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on September 19, 2008, 05:41:40 AM
I am surprised no one has latched onto the Paulus as the 5th suspect yet again...things are beginning to point in his direction as the 5th. 

Left the party...came to pickup Joran..party goers were the alibi....how could he have left...it was a simple party at his house...etc.

Are you guys falling down on the job again...where are my pencils? :roll:

Colombo and I have been saying forever that Paulus is the fifth.

My gut still tells me LVR.


who is DirtyHand?





Good Morning COLUMBO...I happen to think that Paulus is a major Dirty Hand. Pretty sure he had something to do with a couple of high profile extraditions in the 1990s...Which leads me back to Shango. ::MonkeyWink::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on September 19, 2008, 05:46:45 AM
I am surprised no one has latched onto the Paulus as the 5th suspect yet again...things are beginning to point in his direction as the 5th. 

Left the party...came to pickup Joran..party goers were the alibi....how could he have left...it was a simple party at his house...etc.

Are you guys falling down on the job again...where are my pencils? :roll:

Colombo and I have been saying forever that Paulus is the fifth.

My gut still tells me LVR.


Good Morning SS...

Lorenzo van Gijn/Rijn…Jossy said Gijn…One a son of a Lawyer, Joran…one the son of a Judge, Lorenzo…2 Dutch brothers according to one of the Security guards mothers…Joran and Val…June 15th…Val came across the pond.  According to Anita the phone found by the Lighthouse was Val’s.  Satish was asked if Val could drive?  Why ask this if he was in the Netherlands…

The justices on the Curacao bench

From  previous posts back on page 74...coincidence???

mr. L. van Gijn august 1st 2000

Judge sorry the translated page didn't copy
Rechter Leo van Gijn wilde vooral van de bewindsman en het Departement van Luchtvaart horen waarom het eerste artikel van de verleende vergunning alle ruimte biedt aan de luchtvaartmaatschappij


Reply #1468 on: January 29, 2008, 01:53:32 PM »   Reply with quote



http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1952.3040
 
I knew I'd seen it...Jossy used Gijn...the other paper used Rijn...From what I've seen the Gijn family is influential and has a history in The netherlands...

#471 on: June 21, 2007, 11:39:26 AM » Quote 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.diario-aruba.com/2007/6/21/


Quote
Cas yena cu camara, yen di cacho brabo y rondona cu prikkel draad…
LORENZO VAN GIJN DETENI PA PLANTACION GRANDI
DI MARIHUANA NA SAVANETA

ORANJESTAD(AAN):Lorenzo van Gijn no ta un desconoci di polis. Den e bishitanan cu e Team Bijzondere Projecten a haci na diferente lugar, su cas no tabata un excepcion.



January 14, 2008, 02:37:37 PM
Do we know if Guido is Aruban or Dutch? I'm getting kinda stuck on someone else running off to the Netherlands...but that's because in the back of my mind I have one of the SG's mothers saying 'dutch brothers' from an influential family.

January 11, 2008, 11:00:53 AM
From June 5th 2005….8.34AM …Arbeej

http://bb.visitaruba.com/showthread.php?t=2244&page=6
Link no longer works

quote:
"* One of the 3 original "persons of interest" is the son of a Judge on the island of Aruba..."

This was actually confirmed for us by an Aruban news reporter. He confirmed that one is the son of a judge, the other the son of a lawyer. It was not, however, clarified as to whether their Dads and the rest of the families live and work on Aruba. The three boys, though born in other countries, are legal residents of Aruba. I do not Know long they have lived there, but they are indeed legal residents.                   


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on September 19, 2008, 08:31:55 AM
I am surprised no one has latched onto the Paulus as the 5th suspect yet again...things are beginning to point in his direction as the 5th. 

Left the party...came to pickup Joran..party goers were the alibi....how could he have left...it was a simple party at his house...etc.

Are you guys falling down on the job again...where are my pencils? :roll:

Colombo and I have been saying forever that Paulus is the fifth.

My gut still tells me LVR.


Good Morning SS...

Lorenzo van Gijn/Rijn…Jossy said Gijn…One a son of a Lawyer, Joran…one the son of a Judge, Lorenzo…2 Dutch brothers according to one of the Security guards mothers…Joran and Val…June 15th…Val came across the pond.  According to Anita the phone found by the Lighthouse was Val’s.  Satish was asked if Val could drive?  Why ask this if he was in the Netherlands…

The justices on the Curacao bench

From  previous posts back on page 74...coincidence???

mr. L. van Gijn august 1st 2000

Judge sorry the translated page didn't copy
Rechter Leo van Gijn wilde vooral van de bewindsman en het Departement van Luchtvaart horen waarom het eerste artikel van de verleende vergunning alle ruimte biedt aan de luchtvaartmaatschappij


Reply #1468 on: January 29, 2008, 01:53:32 PM »   Reply with quote



http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1952.3040
 
I knew I'd seen it...Jossy used Gijn...the other paper used Rijn...From what I've seen the Gijn family is influential and has a history in The netherlands...

#471 on: June 21, 2007, 11:39:26 AM » Quote 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.diario-aruba.com/2007/6/21/


Quote
Cas yena cu camara, yen di cacho brabo y rondona cu prikkel draad…
LORENZO VAN GIJN DETENI PA PLANTACION GRANDI
DI MARIHUANA NA SAVANETA

ORANJESTAD(AAN):Lorenzo van Gijn no ta un desconoci di polis. Den e bishitanan cu e Team Bijzondere Projecten a haci na diferente lugar, su cas no tabata un excepcion.



January 14, 2008, 02:37:37 PM
Do we know if Guido is Aruban or Dutch? I'm getting kinda stuck on someone else running off to the Netherlands...but that's because in the back of my mind I have one of the SG's mothers saying 'dutch brothers' from an influential family.

January 11, 2008, 11:00:53 AM
From June 5th 2005….8.34AM …Arbeej

http://bb.visitaruba.com/showthread.php?t=2244&page=6
Link no longer works

quote:
"* One of the 3 original "persons of interest" is the son of a Judge on the island of Aruba..."

This was actually confirmed for us by an Aruban news reporter. He confirmed that one is the son of a judge, the other the son of a lawyer. It was not, however, clarified as to whether their Dads and the rest of the families live and work on Aruba. The three boys, though born in other countries, are legal residents of Aruba. I do not Know long they have lived there, but they are indeed legal residents.                   


One 'BOY' and one "GUY.

So ONE was LATE for school, and ONE was ON TIME for school.

First I've ever heard of a Lorenzo van Gijn...I heard of Lorenzo van Rijn (of Rembrandt the painter fame) and a Lorenzo Wever, which I hear in Netherlands can also be spelled Weijer, but never a Gijn.... interesting, very very interesting... ::MonkeyCool::                   





Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on September 19, 2008, 07:28:17 PM
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:09 pm
Simian, who else plays in the orchestra? A Babylonian….

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:10 pm
Simian, older PVDS had one or two cards up his sleeve. They have been played, and lost. Will one of the cards sing?

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:43 pm
The fallen judge agreed to sing because he can hum any tune
He needs to sing for his son, or see the end of his babylonian offspring

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:53 pm
DirtyHand is the key (to open unknown doors)
He walks with the elders
He walks in all houses
And he walked with the fallen elder
he was the hidden card that was played
now if he sings, babylon will fall on the arawak nation

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:42 pm
Arawaks hold singing card from babylon (he walked with the fallen elder)
There is also a trio. One Babylonian. 2 Shivas.
Arawaks can’t let babylonian Card sing because hand holding it dirty too. (dirty hand)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on September 19, 2008, 07:31:30 PM
re: hand holding it dirty too

....but the foundations of the house of babylon will shake
even harder if Arawak Dirty Hand is revealed (Loesge post?)

DirtyHand is not an arawak


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on September 19, 2008, 07:33:07 PM
foundations of the house of babylon shake harder? (basement?)

Shango has not danced with the lions

5th suspect is waltzing away


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on September 19, 2008, 07:35:26 PM
DirtyHand is afraid to rave

Shango does not say this about the elder

"he has a history of making himself something he's not" (lion, arawak???)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on September 20, 2008, 10:10:27 AM
I am surprised no one has latched onto the Paulus as the 5th suspect yet again...things are beginning to point in his direction as the 5th. 

Left the party...came to pickup Joran..party goers were the alibi....how could he have left...it was a simple party at his house...etc.

Are you guys falling down on the job again...where are my pencils? :roll:

Colombo and I have been saying forever that Paulus is the fifth.

My gut still tells me LVR.


who is DirtyHand?

I think these people actually saw who DirtyHand is, apprehended him, called the cops, and the cops drove away and I presume let him back out on the streets to do his next dirty deed.  I left off the person's name, but it is around the net if you care to google.

And how many more we don't know about.... this one made it out alive...(wonder if the hubby's name was David...)

http://tinyurl.com/4msum7

A Tourist in 1996 (posting in 2005):

My heart aches for Natalee and her family. I've known from the minute Natalee was announced missing on the tv, exactly what happened to her. I have been in touch with the FBI, and they have my statement. I have been to Aruba 3 times, and the last time was HORRIBLE.

In 1996, I went with my husband and 4 friends. We stayed at the same hotel Natalee stayed at. My husband and I were both drugged, taken from the hotel casino. My husband was locked in a back room of the bar The Rio Grande, I was taken out to the desert, and didnt come out of the black out until the next morning. I had been raped and beaten. I was fortunate enough to talk my way out of the situation, promising I wouldnt go to the police. When I got back to my hotel, my husband and a friend did go to the police station..........it is just like you've seen on the tv for the Holloway-Twitty family. They did NOTHING to help us at all. Even with the police knowing, that the casino-workers and the Commishioner of the casino had a problem with the "man",  and were also willing to help my husband and I.

We switched hotels that day, and stayed in most of the time we were there. The night before we were to leave all 6 of us decided to go to the beach. That "man" showed up. My husband and cousin got a hold of him, we asked a hotel worker to call the police (they took almost an hour to get there). We told them what had happened and they simply put him in the back of the police jeep uncuffed, and drove away with him. I guess we were all in shock, my husband and I just glad to be leaving both alive.

They have never mentioned on the news the brothel out in the desert behind the Holiday Inn pass the light house, thats were I was taken to, a police-woman told me that it was a wh*re-House, no big deal??
I have tried to get in touch with the Beth Holloway, I think I could maybe help her or at least tell her that Natalee didnt feel any pain, as I said I was drugged and I dont remember anything until the next day. A lot of parents are now coming on tv again with the same situations of missing children from all islands, but none have gotten any justice or even an answer. It seems I am the only one to have survived. I pray for Natalee and her family every morning and every night, and badly wish there was a way to comfort her mom, who has been, and has had to be, a very strong woman. My husband had to only endure a couple hours of not knowing if I was alive or what happened. He said he cant imagine how they feel. So our hearts and prayers are with them daily. I hope this all ends soon for them, no mother should have to be put through this.

I havent been able to talk about what happened to me for 9 years, but I would do ANYTHING to help Natalee and her family

(see johan555 post here for yet another issue of a missing couple here http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=3363.920)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on September 20, 2008, 10:21:36 AM

The woman who posted her drugging in Aruba writes  "...the casino-workers and the Commishioner of the casino had a problem with the "man",  and were also willing to help my husband and I...." 

THE "MAN" = "DIRTYHAND (IMO). We know from Shango that DirtyHand was at the party (masquerade ball) , DirtyHand did not rave, does not have the Lions tame, and can break this alibi.

Did the Lions (a gang?) harm Natalee at this Rave party? DirtyHand was at this rave party, with the Elders and their kids, but DirtyHand doesn't do the drugs.

(I also now think the codetalker didn't get his/her Bible stories straight. Daniel was thrown in the Lions den...not David...as punishment for not bowing down to the King. Angels shut up the mouths of the Lions, who would have torn him to pieces...and only Daniel got out of the Lions Den alive...and we know that a Prince is a son of a King - and the Prince at that party (ball) was no Prince charming... I think this is the 'other son' also. One son late for school, the other son was on time...DirtyHand is the King, and it was his son who is a Lion...???) 

Here's the DdirtyHhand posts in one spot: 

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:18 pm
If the Alibi is broken by DirtyHand the walls of Babylon will shake.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:37 pm
DirtyHand is not a child of Babylon. He holds the real key. The Arawaks fear his exposure. The house of babylon would tumble down on the teepees of the Arawaks. DirtyHand knows the cowboys will leave lootless. He can break the alibi.


Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:42 pm
Arawaks hold singing card from Babylon.  There is also a trio. One Babylonian. 2 Shivas. Arawaks can’t let babylonian Card sing because hand holding it dirty too. Many teepees fall. No Wampum. Cowboys eat Sacrifice. Arawaks eat sacrifice. Dirty hand stays hidden, but all are well-fed. Cowboys happy, but unrest in the halls of the palace. Babylon owes the Arawaks!

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:50 pm
If Babylonian Card sings, all will fall. Teepees and the house of Babylon. We must have a sacrifice. Hide dirty hand. Light the fires!

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:53 pm
If Babylonian card sings ALL will fall. Teepees and the house of Babylon. If cowboys stay, after the sacrifice, everyone see dirty hand. No Wampum, Many Moons. Light the fires.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:55 pm
If cowboys see dirty hand, many teepees fall. House of Babylon falls. we must have a sacrifice to feed the cowboys. they go back to the fort with no loot.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:32 m
The sacrifice is the correct food to appease the gods, arawaks, and cowboys but the foundations of the house of babylon will shake even harder if Arawak Dirty Hand is revealed

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:39 pm
Every tribe has bad Indians.  Every fort has bad cowboys.  If sirens sing a poison song, all will get sick.  Arawaks and cowboys working well.  Arawaks fear wrath of cowboys for DirtyHand.  But babylonians live in teepees too.  If the house of babylon is to remain erect, it must protect the babylonians who have lived in teepees, among the arawaks, for a long time. babylon will agree to a sacrifice of newer teepee dwellers to prevent the story of dirtyhand being made public.  Dirtyhand scares arawaks too.  the sacrifice will be the correct sacrifice to appease the gods and cowboys.  cowboys will leave without loot.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:54 pm
The Arawaks are not going to sacrifice a scapegoat. Babylon needs to allow one sacrifice to keep DirtyHand hidden. Babylon scared of DirtyHand. Arawaks scared of DirtyHand. If sacrifice is made, teepees are safe, villagers and cowboys happy. If DirtyHand discovered, House of Babylon falls, Teepees crushed under great house

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:58 pm
Arawaks want to make cowboys happy. Babylonians want to maintain integrity of Great House.
Gods of the cowboys know there was a game in the great house, and so DirtyHand was discovered. But the sacrifice will be offered before dirty hand sings. He will return to babylon, broken but anonymous.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 6:02 pm
The babylonians are to blame. The arawaks were worried about teepees and the cowboys. They did not bring DirtyHand into the Tribe! He will go back to babylon broken, after the sacrifice is eaten

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 6:04 pm
If DirtyHand sings, sacrifice will still be eaten. But there will be many more people at the feast, and the cowboys would resent the Arawaks for Babylons interference.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 6:13 pm
His lordship did not bring the key, it does not exist. doors to eden remain closed. The arawaks hold the singing cards. They have the babylonian and 2 shivas. But the other card is dirty. Even if you play cards in the house of babylon as an arawak, you still have DirtyHand. If DirtyHand comes out of hiding, Babylon will fall and the cowboys will circle the wagons. DirtyHand can destroy the Arawaks and Babylon. Better to prepare the sacrifice quickly so the cowboys go home ….without the loot

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 6:19 pm
There are many DirtyHands among the Arawak, and so it has been for centuries.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 6:28 pm
All preceding stated is verifiable.  DirtyHand is well known.  there will be a sacrifice.  the gods have been talking. the fires have been lit. the cowboys will go back to the fort without the loot
that is why they are preparing the sacrifice All fear DirtyHand. Arawaks and Babylon. I must go feed the messengers

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 8:04 pm
The young Lamb der Sloot shall be the sacrifice for the Arawaks and the cowboys. All will sit around the fire and feast on scapegoat. The gods are talking. DirtyHand is alive and well.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 8:25 pm
The Arawaks want the truth to come out. As long as DirtyHand is not found. Aruba is preserved and Babylon will pay the price. the gods know that the blame lies on Babylon. the cowboys will go back to the fort without the loot

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:19 pm
DirtyHand is not an Arawak. The singing card can not be played. The cowboys would circle the wagons. The arawaks are preparing the sacrifice. light the fires. the gods are talking.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:32 pm
His lordship is there to preserve Babylon, not the elder. Remember dirtyhand.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:35 pm
DirtyHand is not an Arawak. Many pioneers have settled with the tribe.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:48 pm
The card of babylon was already played. if it sings, DirtyHand will bring down the Royal House on top of the Arawak Nation. the gods have handed down a pipe of peace, but a sacrifice will be made. Some elders of the game, not just of babylon walk in older circles. cowboys hear the singing, but the words are not understood. The gods and the babylonians are worried about the cowboys response.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 8:27 pm
DirtyHand and the fallen judge may not be crucified. The gods are talking.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:55 pm
DirtyHand walks with the elders. Babylon knows.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:58 pm
DirtyHand knows the Babylonians that provided escort after the 2 shivas left.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:04 pm
Are the children of the elders there, or did they flee to Babylon? DirtyHand knows, this is his Power. there will be 46 sacrifices.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:16 pm
Mary was not a Virgin. The Arawaks know. The cowboys know. DirtyHand can break the Alibi, he walks all circles. The Simian knows this

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:18 pm
If the Alibi is broken by DirtyHand the walls of Babylon will shake.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:30 pm
You always find forbidden desires in the small houses of Babylon. the girl knew this. Find DirtyHand! He too walked in this house of Babylon. But not to satiate desire. 

Shango Says:June 26th, 2005 at 10:48 pm
Coverups begin with elders and the founders of the houses of Babylon. Not the minions. DirtyHand knows this.

Shango Says:June 26th, 2005 at 10:53 pm
DirtyHand is the key. He walks with the elders. He walks in all houses. And he walked with the fallen elder. He was the hidden card that was played. now if he sings, babylon will fall on the arawak nation

Shango Says:June 26th, 2005 at 11:05 pm
DirtyHand has worked for the elders for a long time.

Shango Says:June 27th , 2005 at 9:44 pm
Babalu opened a window looking into babylon on his 12:31 A.M. Post  DirtyHand is alive.

Shango Says:June 27th , 2005 at 9:48 pm
Babalu knew who dirty hand was at half past 12


Shango Says:June 27th , 2005 at 9:51 pm
DirtyHand walks with the Babylons, the Arawaks and is consort to the fallen elder
The gods are talking.

Shango Says:June 27th , 2005 at 9:59 pm
DirtyHand can bring down all houses. DirtyHand is the key. His reach is long. He walks in all circles. consort to all, except for the gods. He knows the sacrifice is not responsible

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:05 pm
The dice throwers know the maze of the rave and the fly that entered the trap. DirtyHand is the key. He walks in many circles.

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:09 pm
Young Babylonians and Shivas do not build sand castles. DirtyHand knows this. Children of the Elders play in the maze, but DirtyHand is afraid to rave

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:49 pm
The maze offers many hidden desires deflowerings of forbidden fruits. DirtyHand knows. So does the elder. The lamb is a scapegoat.

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:52 pm
DirtyHand has walked through the maze. He knows of the forbidden fruit and the gardeners.

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:18 pm
DirtyHand does not play with the lions. but he has entered the maze. the lamb is a scapegoat. DirtyHand knows. So does the Elder.

Shango Says:June 27th, 2005 at 11:26 pm
The Arawaks will not enter the maze unless the cowboys refuse the peace pipe. Follow the music, the lions are not tame. DirtyHand knows, so does the elder.

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:43 pm
Mary rolled into the maze to play with lions but it was not a game. the lamb ran bleating afraid to walk through the maze. why don’t the arawaks ambush the lions? The cowboys don’t know. DirtyHand knows, but is afraid of the Arawak Nation. The gods are talking.

Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 12:39 am
The threadsurfers are opening the door to Babylon. Be careful of the lions. DirtyHand does not have them tamed but he can enter the den. Tell the cowboys.

Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 2:59 am
The Simian Doppleganger is upset because the arawak nation is hiding the truth from the cowboys. DirtyHand knows. Simian knows. The Simian stated for 2 days, the key would come from the hague the next day. Shango said no two times. Is Simian a DirtyHand too. Has the Simian played with the lions in the houses of ill-repute and poison notes where the innocent flies are lured? Has the Simian, primate that he is, fed with the other animals? Back ye fetid mongrel, as the 46th are you; delegate of the 7th level of inferno, not birthed, but spewed from the dark chasm of a nightmare!

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:13 pm
Lucy spoke at 10:56 # Lucy Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:56 pm
Someone said last night that Dirty Hand was somebody in the police.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on September 20, 2008, 12:53:43 PM
I am surprised no one has latched onto the Paulus as the 5th suspect yet again...things are beginning to point in his direction as the 5th. 

Left the party...came to pickup Joran..party goers were the alibi....how could he have left...it was a simple party at his house...etc.

Are you guys falling down on the job again...where are my pencils? :roll:

Or the simple party was at or behind the matty apts, (Deepak to Joran "...your own father") and all the party goers turned the other way... the partygoers must be pinched!


If you believe Simian...the party was at the 5th suspect's house. Simian doesn't mix up his words...Shango did enough of that for them both.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on September 20, 2008, 12:57:10 PM
Bringing this over from the NCD thread...

SS
Scared Monkey

Re: Natalee Case Discussion #770 9/20/08 through
« Reply #7 on: Today at 10:59:37 AM »
   Reply with quoteQuote
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 8:27 pm
DirtyHand and the fallen judge may not be crucified. The gods are talking.

Shango seems to be saying that Dirty Hand (DTKM?) and the fallen judge (Paulass) are not the same person.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:29 pm
I did not say an ex. Do you people read? I not into repeating myself.

[feels need to repeat himself]
Girl comes to Aruba. Meets cool and crazy guy in C@$ino. Goes out with him. He declares that to be the case. Can’t deny it. It’s on tape.  Everybody in the C@$ino knows the group of teens, they have been drinking in there for free the whole week. After a couple of days girl meets another boy in the same C@$ino. Goes out with him.
Simian: This makes first guy really mad. So mad he confronts second boy.
First guy never denies the affair. He knows they know he was with her. However, he has an airtight alibi. Some friends say they were at home with him. Until the morning. How can this ever be solved?


"Cool and crazy guy" could not be a description of Paulass.     It's on tape indicates to me that somewhere the 5th is on a tape with Natalee.  This is why I think that there are Holiday Inn tapes we haven't seen.  "After a couple of days girl meets another boy in the same casino" indicates to me that this is probably when she met up with Urine.

"He has an airtight alibi.  Some friends say they were at home with him.  Until the morning".  Nobody that I know of said that they were at home with Paulass all night.  Max Arendsz and a few others, however, did provide an alibi for Lorenzo and said that they were at his house.  Lorenzo's girlfriend also provided an alibi that she was with him all night.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on September 20, 2008, 03:29:45 PM
I am surprised no one has latched onto the Paulus as the 5th suspect yet again...things are beginning to point in his direction as the 5th. 

Left the party...came to pickup Joran..party goers were the alibi....how could he have left...it was a simple party at his house...etc.

Are you guys falling down on the job again...where are my pencils? :roll:

Or the simple party was at or behind the matty apts, (Deepak to Joran "...your own father") and all the party goers turned the other way... the partygoers must be pinched!


If you believe Simian...the party was at the 5th suspects house. Simian doesn't mix up his words...Shango did enough of that for them both.

If the party was at Joran's house, why would Joran need a ride back home to his own house?

He got a ride to the party from the Kalpoes, and now based on the new witness he got ride back home from Paulus.
 
Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 11:23 pm
Who took the boy to the party? Who took him home? Therein lies the third act. Look up the Simian’s posts from days ago.

The party was here:

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:01 pm
Arawaks often go to play in small houses of Babylon with the offspring of the Elders.

Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 2:59 am
The Simian Doppleganger is upset because the Arawak nation is hiding the truth from the cowboys. DirtyHand knows. Simian knows. The Simian stated for 2 days, the key would come from the Hague the next day. Shango said no two times. Is Simian a DirtyHand too. Has the Simian played with the lions in the houses of ill-repute and poison notes where the innocent flies are lured? Has the Simian, primate that he is, fed with the other animals? Back ye fetid mongrel, as the 46th are you; delegate of the 7th level of inferno, not birthed, but spewed from the dark chasm of a nightmare!

***********THE THIRD ACT********

Merian says one rested and the other went to the aid of 'the foul mouthed one'.

I presume Joran is the 'foul mouthed one'. If one rested and the other went to his aid, it could be either set: Deepak/Satish or Paulus/Val.

Merian 7/14/05 11:48 pm
Everywhere you go, your dot will be on the dish. The thing is that it came back to haunt you. Little altars built into their rooms. Only one rested, while the other one went to the aid of the foul mouthed one. Bite your tongue off now. The elder is half the man he used to be. Dragging his feet on the lonely streets.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on September 20, 2008, 03:42:42 PM
I am surprised no one has latched onto the Paulus as the 5th suspect yet again...things are beginning to point in his direction as the 5th. 

Left the party...came to pickup Joran..party goers were the alibi....how could he have left...it was a simple party at his house...etc.

Are you guys falling down on the job again...where are my pencils? :roll:

Or the simple party was at or behind the matty apts, (Deepak to Joran "...your own father") and all the party goers turned the other way... the partygoers must be pinched!


If you believe Simian...the party was at the 5th suspect's house. Simian doesn't mix up his words...Shango did enough of that for them both.

I think when Simian said

"...The party-goers said the 5th one was with them. He was the host. How could he have left?.." 

that meant the 5th was seen at the party where Natalee was taken to, but denied it by saying he had hosted his own party at his house that night.  THERE WAS NO PARTY AT HIS HOUSE. THE 5TH GOT OTHERS TO SAY THEY WERE WITH HIM AT THIS FAKE PARTY AT HIS HOUSE. THE IMPORTANT ONES SUPPORTING THIS FALSE ALIBI WERE ALSO WITH THE 5TH AT THE SAME PARTY WHERE NATALEE WAS TAKEN TO. THE PARTY GOERS (AT THE REAL 'PARTY', NOT FAKE PARTY MUST BE PINCHED)

So who was supposed to have a party at their home on the same fateful night? Lorenzo? Did Lorenzo sneak out and go to the Matty Apts? See the Simain quotes around "the whole time".

Simian Says "Lucy you are wrong. ..It was just a simple party at his house. He was [there] “the whole time.”



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on September 20, 2008, 04:26:59 PM
I am surprised no one has latched onto the Paulus as the 5th suspect yet again...things are beginning to point in his direction as the 5th. 

Left the party...came to pickup Joran..party goers were the alibi....how could he have left...it was a simple party at his house...etc.

Are you guys falling down on the job again...where are my pencils? :roll:

Or the simple party was at or behind the matty apts, (Deepak to Joran "...your own father") and all the party goers turned the other way... the partygoers must be pinched!


If you believe Simian...the party was at the 5th suspects house. Simian doesn't mix up his words...Shango did enough of that for them both.

If the party was at Joran's house, why would Joran need a ride back home to his own house?

He got a ride to the party from the Kalpoes, and now based on the new witness he got ride back home from Paulus.
 

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 11:23 pm
Who took the boy to the party? Who took him home? Therein lies the third act. Look up the Simian’s posts from days ago.

The party was here:

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:01 pm
Arawaks often go to play in small houses of Babylon with the offspring of the Elders.

Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 2:59 am
The Simian Doppleganger is upset because the Arawak nation is hiding the truth from the cowboys. DirtyHand knows. Simian knows. The Simian stated for 2 days, the key would come from the Hague the next day. Shango said no two times. Is Simian a DirtyHand too. Has the Simian played with the lions in the houses of ill-repute and poison notes where the innocent flies are lured? Has the Simian, primate that he is, fed with the other animals? Back ye fetid mongrel, as the 46th are you; delegate of the 7th level of inferno, not birthed, but spewed from the dark chasm of a nightmare!

***********THE THIRD ACT********

Merian says one rested and the other went to the aid of 'the foul mouthed one'.

I presume Joran is the 'foul mouthed one'. If one rested and the other went to his aid, it could be either set: Deepak/Satish or Paulus/Val.

Merian 7/14/05 11:48 pm
Everywhere you go, your dot will be on the dish. The thing is that it came back to haunt you. Little altars built into their rooms. Only one rested, while the other one went to the aid of the foul mouthed one. Bite your tongue off now. The elder is half the man he used to be. Dragging his feet on the lonely streets.

That means Joran is not the 5th suspect...he wasn't having a party at his house...he was with Natalee most of the night.  So you have to look elsewhere for the 5th suspect...back to Freddy... he could have had a party at his place...but then how do the apartments, so many believe were used, fit in?  Where does the house reference come in?  If you take Simian at his word you can eliminate certain people...it's all abut the context...as I have said for years now.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on September 20, 2008, 04:28:33 PM
I am surprised no one has latched onto the Paulus as the 5th suspect yet again...things are beginning to point in his direction as the 5th. 

Left the party...came to pickup Joran..party goers were the alibi....how could he have left...it was a simple party at his house...etc.

Are you guys falling down on the job again...where are my pencils? :roll:

Or the simple party was at or behind the matty apts, (Deepak to Joran "...your own father") and all the party goers turned the other way... the partygoers must be pinched!


If you believe Simian...the party was at the 5th suspect's house. Simian doesn't mix up his words...Shango did enough of that for them both.

I think when Simian said

"...The party-goers said the 5th one was with them. He was the host. How could he have left?.." 

that meant the 5th was seen at the party where Natalee was taken to, but denied it by saying he had hosted his own party at his house that night.  THERE WAS NO PARTY AT HIS HOUSE. THE 5TH GOT OTHERS TO SAY THEY WERE WITH HIM AT THIS FAKE PARTY AT HIS HOUSE. THE IMPORTANT ONES SUPPORTING THIS FALSE ALIBI WERE ALSO WITH THE 5TH AT THE SAME PARTY WHERE NATALEE WAS TAKEN TO. THE PARTY GOERS (AT THE REAL 'PARTY', NOT FAKE PARTY MUST BE PINCHED)

So who was supposed to have a party at their home on the same fateful night? Lorenzo? Did Lorenzo sneak out and go to the Matty Apts? See the Simain quotes around "the whole time".

Simian Says "Lucy you are wrong. ..It was just a simple party at his house. He was [there] “the whole time.”



Simian clearly says it was at his house...he was the host.  Speculation was the party goers included JR at one point...speculation mind you.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on September 20, 2008, 04:58:54 PM
Lala's...Do I need to go find the post about Freddy and his airtight alibi? ::MonkeyWink::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on September 20, 2008, 05:06:31 PM
Simian never conclusively says that there was a party

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:26 pm
The alibi story is the almost the latest.
The latest is that there’s a gap in the time-line for the boys.
It is true that one of them tried to off himself.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:55 pm
He has an alibi. So tight. So tight.

Girl comes to Aruba. Meets cool and crazy guy in C@$ino. Goes out with him. He declares that to be the case. Can’t deny it. It’s on tape.  Everybody in the C@$ino knows the group of teens, they have been drinking in there for free the whole week. After a couple of days girl meets another boy in the same C@$ino. Goes out with him.
Simian: This makes first guy really mad. So mad he confronts second boy.
First guy never denies the affair. He knows they know he was with her. However, he has an airtight alibi. Some friends say they were at home with him. Until the morning.
How can this ever be solved?

Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 11:06 am
The important “others” are the ones that supported the alibi.
No one has openly said there is no hope. Three cadaver dogs on the way. Sonar equipment to look for a body in as deep as 300 meters of water.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:13 pm
A jealous boyfriend was at home with some friends. He couldn’t have done it. Sometimes friends will cover for each other.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on September 20, 2008, 05:34:47 PM
PVDS could not have been at the house of ill repute and poison notes because he allegedly never left home (means/motive/opportunity.....how could he have done it)

quoting Poochy:

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 11:23 pm
Who took the boy to the party? Who took him home? Therein lies the third act. Look up the Simian’s posts from days ago.

The party was here:

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:01 pm
Arawaks often go to play in small houses of Babylon with the offspring of the Elders.

Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 2:59 am
The Simian Doppleganger is upset because the Arawak nation is hiding the truth from the cowboys. DirtyHand knows. Simian knows. The Simian stated for 2 days, the key would come from the Hague the next day. Shango said no two times. Is Simian a DirtyHand too. Has the Simian played with the lions in the houses of ill-repute and poison notes where the innocent flies are lured? Has the Simian, primate that he is, fed with the other animals? Back ye fetid mongrel, as the 46th are you; delegate of the 7th level of inferno, not birthed, but spewed from the dark chasm of a nightmare!

***********THE THIRD ACT********


back to Colombo now.......

who switched places!!!??? Joran stayed behind.........where?





Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on September 20, 2008, 07:46:30 PM
PVDS could not have been at the house of ill repute and poison notes because he allegedly never left home (means/motive/opportunity.....how could he have done it)

quoting Poochy:

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 11:23 pm
Who took the boy to the party? Who took him home? Therein lies the third act. Look up the Simian’s posts from days ago.

The party was here:

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:01 pm
Arawaks often go to play in small houses of Babylon with the offspring of the Elders.

Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 2:59 am
The Simian Doppleganger is upset because the Arawak nation is hiding the truth from the cowboys. DirtyHand knows. Simian knows. The Simian stated for 2 days, the key would come from the Hague the next day. Shango said no two times. Is Simian a DirtyHand too. Has the Simian played with the lions in the houses of ill-repute and poison notes where the innocent flies are lured? Has the Simian, primate that he is, fed with the other animals? Back ye fetid mongrel, as the 46th are you; delegate of the 7th level of inferno, not birthed, but spewed from the dark chasm of a nightmare!

***********THE THIRD ACT********


back to Colombo now.......

who switched places!!!??? Joran stayed behind.........where?

Colombo, maybe the answer lies in this verse

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:49 pm
The Elder needs to sing to preserve his lineage. To agree to remain silent is to agree not to hum any tune. The Arawaks are desperate, they fear for the tribe, they do not want war with the cowboys. But the loot remains hidden. And the Arawaks keep their singing card hidden as well. The fallen judge and the singing card are of the same hand, but it is dangerous for the Arawaks to play it, because everyone would hear, including the cowboys.

and it is one of these:

The Elder,                          ---> who is this?
The Arawak singing card,      ---> who is this that has been kept well hidden?
The loot                            ---> Is this Natalee or the sh*t as in "if they find the girl they will see the sh*t" ?
The fallen judge                  ---> Paulus
The singing card                 ---> who is this? Is this different from the Arawak singing card?
(and Dirtyhand)                  ---> who is this?
not in this verse
but had to add him/her)

*************************

Also, what does 'preserve his lineage' mean in this phrase "...The Elder needs to sing [TALK] to preserve his lineage   ???
That the Elder needs to talk or his SON (lineage) will die? More than one SON? Or can we infer that the Elder only has ONE son?
 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on September 20, 2008, 08:27:12 PM
The LAMB and the (sacrificial) GOAT:

1. The ELDER = ???                   and the ELDER's SON = ??    (or maybe he doesn't have a son)

2. The FALLEN JUDGE =PAULUS)  and the FALLEN JUDGE'S SON = GOAT (JORAN)

3. The ARAWAK KING = ??           and the ARAWAK KING's SON = LION?

The LION is the son of the Arawak KING they are all protecting??

KING's son is a PRINCE
"...the PRINCE at this ball is no PRINCE charming.."

"...Preserve the lineage - the lineage of his crown..."


Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 2:29 am
Babylon is Falling. The Arawak teepees will be crushed. will they sacrifice the Lamb or the Lion to make the cowboys smile.


btw, there's more shango posts here http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-backroom/1454903/posts  that are not included in the SM Simian/Shango thread - we need to figure out who the LIONS are...

Shango has not danced with the lions, nor Arawaks,and does not keep their company

Eyes of god may look from afar with great acuity.

The resolution to find Mary lies with the Arawak Nation

Dirty Hand has bound the Arawak Nation with Babylonian Rope

The Lamb and the two Shivas whisper in the dark,


while the lions pace silently in the bush.

Dirty Hand is the link!

The lamb, the shivas, the elder whispering, exiting like theives in the night, clothed with invisible armor

If Dirty Hand falls, so does Babylon, but too, the Arawak Nation shall suffer.

Threadsurfers listen!

The lamb shall run anew in virgin fields, cropping sweet grass which should remain untouched.

The Lamb has sins, but the lions have sharper teeth.

A new key must be found to open unknown doors.

The first concern of the Arawak nation is wampum.

But unseen tides pull babylonian seas through Arawak Moats, bittering the waters.

DirtyHand and the Lions must see the light of Arawak Day, or forever walk in plentiful fields.

The dead shall eternally sleep if a clamour is not made.

Lamb and the Elder are stepping stones into the fetid pool of deception.

The rule of the Arawak King is the Final word.  

DirtyHand has fouled the air for all nearby, but the Arawak Nation will claim Babylonian Authority prevents them from hunting Lions, and DirtyHand.

But the Arawak king controls destiny of all. The Arawak king has DirtyHands and DirtyFeet. If he is to reign anew, he cannot be soiled more.

The babylonians have ruled the Arawak Nation through deception and stealth, and their charges, the Arawaks, speak now with the same forked tongue, on behalf of their king.

The gift the cowboys ask of the king of the Arawak Nation is a mere trifle.

All ye who sing in the cyber-chorus lower your voices not!

It has been proven that the lamb, the shivas, and the elders are not the breach in Arawak Armour!

Let us hunt Lions, The King, and Dirty Hand.  

The lions pace silently in the bush, while the king seeks pleasures with his concubines.

Threadsurfers! What is sought is not hidden.

The Lamb and the elder are not the keystone in the Arch of Corruption.

Seek ye DirtyHand and the Fetid Arawak King who wishes to blame the babylonians for the behaviour of lowly minions.

If the head of the beast is in plain view it is folly to attack protected flanks.

Threadsurfers, DirtyHand is more vulnerable than the Arawak King and your lances should point in his direction.

He is the weak link, if he tumbles, all fall with him….. The lamb, the shivas, the elder

Shango looks from afar but speaks with truth. He does not converse with the Simian, or any other worldly sources, and attempts to bring direction to speculation

I must feed the messengers

The gods are talking


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on September 20, 2008, 08:59:13 PM
While googling around, I found an interesting article about "passageways used once before".

http://articles.latimes.com/2007/jan/30/local/me-tunnel30

"UNFILLED TUNNELS A WEAK LINK AT BORDER"

"...Seven of the largest tunnels discovered under the U.S.-Mexico border in recent years have yet to be filled in, authorities said, raising concerns because smugglers have tried to reuse such passages before.

Merian Ernest 7/26/05 3:51pm
The Multi fractions spell democracy to the Simian. The tyranny of duality does not live in the conuco. Yes or no are not the only answers.  Pick up the pieces and make an island. Only the one who chopped it down understands. Sell your convictions to try and understand. Start anew, a new man. Who says the one who broke is the one who knows? Look by the haystack in the small hours. They live in the conuco, but they are the only ones who can open the palace doors. The federales should be careful not to grease the palace floors. The robed ones will squeeze an escape through passageways used once before.   The checkmate is the same the tables might have turned. There are no donkeys or mules in chess only horses.

While I initially thought it meant "legal loopholes" and the robed ones were "judges", maybe passageways mean underwater tunnel systems, accessed by the several caves on Aruba. OK, don't laugh  ::MonkeyHaHa::

Codetalkers mention the cRAVE - the Rave in a cave, and who knows...there are many undersea tunnels over 17 mi. in length (distance to VZ)...and Choose-a-name was found outside of a cave.

...and we all laughed at the poster who said Natalee was driven to VZ.

Codetalkers also mentions Santa Marta, northern CO.  Interesting mention about the Haystack. Maybe there's an entranceway there? The answer lies on the whispering wind - the Haystack/Hooiberg stairway perhaps?

Merian Ernest   7/13/05 5:51 pm
Find Aruba. Find the Haystack. Find Santa Marta. Trace with your finger what the Antenna has spoken about. Unleash the dogs. Inch by inch…grid by grid.

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:29 pm
Some windows overlooking Babylon have been opened. The cowboys need to find the right path, but they can’t hear the music. [THE MUSIC PLAYS AT NIGHT IN THE WEE HOURS, NOT DURING THE DAY WHEN THEY ARE SEARCHING] The Arawaks know. Stupid Cowboys with Arawak Guides. Cowboys don’t read smoke signals, they must enter the maze! Shango needs to feed the messengers. The Gods are talking.

Simian Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:33 am
Find Aruba. Look for Noord. Look for Montaña. Look for Moko. Let your fingers connect the dots. The cowboys feet are deeper in the dirty water. The vultures are hanging around and are ready to pounce. Hang on to your tubes. The Simian doesn’t want to be right.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on September 20, 2008, 09:48:14 PM
I am surprised no one has latched onto the Paulus as the 5th suspect yet again...things are beginning to point in his direction as the 5th. 

Left the party...came to pickup Joran..party goers were the alibi....how could he have left...it was a simple party at his house...etc.

Are you guys falling down on the job again...where are my pencils? :roll:

Colombo and I have been saying forever that Paulus is the fifth.

My gut still tells me LVR.


who is DirtyHand?

I think these people actually saw who DirtyHand is, apprehended him, called the cops, and the cops drove away and I presume let him back out on the streets to do his next dirty deed.  I left off the person's name, but it is around the net if you care to google.

And how many more we don't know about.... this one made it out alive...(wonder if the hubby's name was David...)

http://tinyurl.com/4msum7

A Tourist in 1996 (posting in 2005):

My heart aches for Natalee and her family. I've known from the minute Natalee was announced missing on the tv, exactly what happened to her. I have been in touch with the FBI, and they have my statement. I have been to Aruba 3 times, and the last time was HORRIBLE.

In 1996, I went with my husband and 4 friends. We stayed at the same hotel Natalee stayed at. My husband and I were both drugged, taken from the hotel casino. My husband was locked in a back room of the bar The Rio Grande, I was taken out to the desert, and didnt come out of the black out until the next morning. I had been raped and beaten. I was fortunate enough to talk my way out of the situation, promising I wouldnt go to the police. When I got back to my hotel, my husband and a friend did go to the police station..........it is just like you've seen on the tv for the Holloway-Twitty family. They did NOTHING to help us at all. Even with the police knowing, that the casino-workers and the Commishioner of the casino had a problem with the "man",  and were also willing to help my husband and I.

We switched hotels that day, and stayed in most of the time we were there. The night before we were to leave all 6 of us decided to go to the beach. That "man" showed up. My husband and cousin got a hold of him, we asked a hotel worker to call the police (they took almost an hour to get there). We told them what had happened and they simply put him in the back of the police jeep uncuffed, and drove away with him. I guess we were all in shock, my husband and I just glad to be leaving both alive.

They have never mentioned on the news the brothel out in the desert behind the Holiday Inn pass the light house, thats were I was taken to, a police-woman told me that it was a wh*re-House, no big deal??
I have tried to get in touch with the Beth Holloway, I think I could maybe help her or at least tell her that Natalee didnt feel any pain, as I said I was drugged and I dont remember anything until the next day. A lot of parents are now coming on tv again with the same situations of missing children from all islands, but none have gotten any justice or even an answer. It seems I am the only one to have survived. I pray for Natalee and her family every morning and every night, and badly wish there was a way to comfort her mom, who has been, and has had to be, a very strong woman. My husband had to only endure a couple hours of not knowing if I was alive or what happened. He said he cant imagine how they feel. So our hearts and prayers are with them daily. I hope this all ends soon for them, no mother should have to be put through this.

I havent been able to talk about what happened to me for 9 years, but I would do ANYTHING to help Natalee and her family

(see johan555 post here for yet another issue of a missing couple here http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=3363.920)



reminds me of the cruise ship incident a few yrs back......security folks seen in the room, husband ends up overboard.....wife wakes up in the hallway near the captains quarters


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Tibrogargan on September 21, 2008, 04:00:12 AM
What did you say Lalas?  Something about context?

My first pick for 5th suspect has to be Lorenzo - he is crazy for sure - is well known for parties at his house and associated drug supply. Freddy is a close second. I have to add that I do not consider any of the young males on Aruba to be "cool" but maybe that is just my age.

Poochy/Colombo - many stories of security or law enforcement being involved in such cases and especially on cruise ships.  Had a friend who worked security on one of the biggest Pacific cruise lines - stories she told of what the ship's staff and especially the male security officers got up to exploiting the passengers were hair raising.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on September 21, 2008, 05:51:55 AM
From what we have learned there are two people named Max Arends(sz).

The first Max Arends is a friend of Urine and the Pimps.  He is the one I refer to as "eyebrows".  Following Natalee's disappearance he went to Valencia County College in Florida.  He has since returned and is currently living in Aruba.

The second Max (Maxito) Arendsz is the owner of the Aruba Speedshop.  At one point, he was posting and reported that he did not know Lorenzo, although he later provided the photograph of Lorenzo in his van.  It was later learned that this Max was interviewed by ALE and provided an alibi for Lorenzo, saying he was with himthe night Natalee disappeared.  He is reportedly a friend of Lorenzo.
___________________________

This is a recent photograph of Max Arends (Eyebrows) with his grandfather.  This Max Arends was one of the Pimps.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on September 21, 2008, 05:52:59 AM
From what we have learned there are two people named Max Arends(sz).

The first Max Arends is a friend of Urine and the Pimps.  He is the one I refer to as "eyebrows".  Following Natalee's disappearance he went to Valencia County College in Florida.  He has since returned and is currently living in Aruba.

The second Max (Maxito) Arendsz is the owner of the Aruba Speedshop.  At one point, he was posting and reported that he did not know Lorenzo, although he later provided the photograph of Lorenzo in his van.  It was later learned that this Max was interviewed by ALE and provided an alibi for Lorenzo, saying he was with himthe night Natalee disappeared.  He is reportedly a friend of Lorenzo.
___________________________

This is a recent photograph of Max Arends (Eyebrows) with his grandfather.  This Max Arends was one of the Pimps.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on September 21, 2008, 06:10:07 AM
Somewhere on one of these threads there is a photograph of Max (Maxito) Arendsz who is the friend of Lorenzo, but I can't find it.  Does anyone know where it is?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on September 21, 2008, 09:29:56 AM
From what we have learned there are two people named Max Arends(sz).

The first Max Arends is a friend of Urine and the Pimps.  He is the one I refer to as "eyebrows".  Following Natalee's disappearance he went to Valencia County College in Florida.  He has since returned and is currently living in Aruba.

The second Max (Maxito) Arendsz is the owner of the Aruba Speedshop.  At one point, he was posting and reported that he did not know Lorenzo, although he later provided the photograph of Lorenzo in his van.  It was later learned that this Max was interviewed by ALE and provided an alibi for Lorenzo, saying he was with himthe night Natalee disappeared.  He is reportedly a friend of Lorenzo.
___________________________

This is a recent photograph of Max Arends (Eyebrows) with his grandfather.  This Max Arends was one of the Pimps.

All roads now lead back to Lorenzo again LOL!!

Wild and crazy guy Lorenzo was said to have had rave parties. So maybe he did had a rave party that night. Natalee, Joran, Kalpoes went to the party under cover of delusion. Kalpoes took Joran to the party.

We know Deepak was bored inside C&C cuz he waited outside by the car for them and even called Satish looking for him. And we know Deepak was going somewhere other than C&C cuz he took a shower to only hang for 30 min before C&C closed? (NOT).

So now they followed the honey laden notes to a rave party at Lorenzos. In a drugged state she was moved to another location by ???  But Lorenzo was the host - how could he have left his own party? It was a simple party at his house...he was the host...how could he have LEFT?

So where did Lorenzo go with Joran from ?? - 4am?

And then we know Paulus took Joran home.


So the GUY is Lorenzo
So the BOY is Joran
FALLEN JUDGE is Paulus
ELDER/FALLEN ELDER = ??


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on September 21, 2008, 11:05:22 AM
Lorenzo van Rijn?

Lorenzo van Gijn – Son of a judge?

Joran van der Sloot – son of a lawyer?

Fallen Elder=Paulus?

Fallen Judge=Leo van Rijn?

Hmmm…Wonder why Jossy said his name was Lorenzo van Gijn, but didn’t tell us till way after the fact that Freddy had been detained early in the case.




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Rob on September 21, 2008, 11:18:12 AM
this is probably nothing - I just noticed some coincidences.

Diamars, 08 April 2008

FRODIGAL SON. Sergio Duarte is back on the island. Fifteen years ago when  Atlantis Hotel was conceived and built by the Duarte family Sergio lived here and had a good time, chasing chicks, waterskiing, night-clubbing. Later the project got into trouble, fell into a state of despair, and was quagmired in the courts. Over the years a number of personal and business losses – Sergio’s beautiful sister lost her life in a tragic car accident at the then dangerous airport junction – humbled and quieted the man. He is today happily married raising two beautiful boys and hoping to return to Aruba and revive Atlantis. The trouble, he says is over, the government has been paid and most issues settled. I bumped into Sergio at Lounge Rouge, Texas de Brazil, accompanying business man Alfonso Riverol and a pair of glamorous women. Some things don’t change . .

http://www.diarioaruba.com/diamars/batibleki/index.html

Diario Diamars, 12 Juli, 2005
(Jossy Mansuers Newspaper)
FRODIGAL SON. Sergio Duarte is back on the island. Fifteen years ago when ****Atlantis Hotel*** was conceived and built by the Duarte family Sergio lived here and had a good time, chasing chicks, waterskiing, night-clubbing. Later the project got into trouble, fell into a state of despair, and was quagmired in the courts. Over the years a number of personal and business losses – Sergio’s beautiful sister lost her life in a tragic car accident at the then dangerous airport junction – humbled and quieted the man. He is today happily married raising two beautiful boys and hoping to return to Aruba and revive Atlantis. The trouble, he says is over, the government has been paid and most issues settled. I bumped into Sergio at Lounge Rouge, Texas de Brazil, accompanying business man ****Alfonso Riverol**** and a pair of glamorous women. Some things don’t change . . .

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-backroom/1454903/posts

+++
frodical

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/FRODIGAL

No results found for FRODIGAL:

interesting use of a word that doesn't exist by a paid journalist. The letter "F" and the letter "P" are not close enough on the keyboard to make that mistake with a simple keystroke.

example;

frodigal was found in the article below.

Athens Messenger, The
Friday, November 10, 1967
Newspaper Text:
THE MESSENGER, Athens, Ohio Friday, Nov. Page 7 for on Frodigal Son Story Of Boy Who Found Himself BISHOP NOAH MOORE JR. Presiding Bishop, Southwestern Methodist Area Jesus loves people, though he often became the victim of char- acter assassins because he did. The Master had a high regard for human personality. He gave no titles to this parable, and it possibly should be called the Prodigal Brother and not the Prodigal Son. Really, both boys were lost. And perhaps the elder son was more of a prodigal, for there is no evidence of his re- pentance. In reality it is t...

http://www.newspaperarchive.com/LandingPage.aspx?type=glp&search=frodigal&img=\\na0004\6779332\35453423_clean.html

all references to FRODICAL SEEM TO BE RELIGIOUS and old testament.

which reminded me of this -

Merian Ernest Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 9:38 am Post subject: . .-.. .--. .- -.. .-. .
... --- --- ... .- -. . .-- - .-. ..- - .... .-- .. .-.. .-.. -... . ..- -. ...- . .-... . -.. .-.-.-


through Morse code translator - http://morsecode.scphillips.com/cgi-bin/morse.cgi

translated is:
"ELPADRESOOSANEWTRUTHWILLBEUNVEED."


THE FATHER SOON A NEW TRUTH WILL BE REVEALED(??) - UNVEILED(??)

A better term would be, of course, PRODIGAL.

PRODIGAL -

–adjective
1.   wastefully or recklessly extravagant: prodigal expenditure.
2.   giving or yielding profusely; lavish (usually fol. by of or with): prodigal of smiles; prodigal with money.
3.   lavishly abundant; profuse: nature's prodigal resources.
–noun
4.   a person who spends, or has spent, his or her money or substance with wasteful extravagance; spendthrift.
[Origin: 1500–10; back formation from prodigality]

++++++++

here's where it starts getting tricky, so try to follow me.

Mr Sergio Durante arrived back on the island - but from where? He lives somewhere with his wife and two sons.

the name Sérgio Duarte is just slightly different due to variant of the letter “e”.

This letter also appears in Catalan, French, Irish, Italian, Occitan, Portuguese, Spanish, and Vietnamese language.

PAPIAMENTU(O) is a combination of Portuguese, Dutch, Spanish, English and some words original to Aruba.

++++++++

next - I am not sure this is the same person.

http://saofranciscoxavier.net/spvjornal/2003/novembro/colunasocial.htm

Ricardo Vignini & Sergio Duarte in the show Sotaque Blues. The pair that is journeying, in shows in the Cultural Center of the Bank of Brazil, Bourbon Steet and Sesc passes for the Photozofia Cyber Coffee, in this Saturday day 15 of November. to 21h30. Sergio Duarte and Ricardo Vignini already work together in partnerships that last ten years more than. In this show " Sotaque Blues" , they develop its works with agility and complicity, hour the gaita migrando for fashion of viola, hour the viola falling in blues. A peculiar tunning enters the instruments of each one, renewing the fashion of viola… … inadiavelmente it is definitively and inadiavelmente marked for days 13,14 and 15 of November, in the Cabaret of the Arts, behind doRestaurante There Mouth, always from the 21:00 hs., the new Divine show of the Croquettes. the new spectacle brings many new features, also much new people stepping on for the first time in one palco. in day 13, it goes to be thus a species of general assay directed more toward the chiquense public and with ingressions the most popular prices: R$ 3,00. in the other days, the price will be of anticipated R$ 5,00 (until day 12) and R$ 8,00 in the door. therefore, it reserves already its for telephone 12 39261819, in the little store of Sitio Old Paineira or in the Affetto Coffee. you do not go to want to lose the show more caliente of the season? or he goes? … … Combo formed from July of 2001 with the main objective to work with good instrumental music, using diverse combinations of timbres, however conventional, however of experimental character, arriving at a final result that surprises for the clarity, simplicity and good taste of its arrangements. the group, represented for Clevinho de here Oliveira in saxofone and flute, Ricardo Pescara in the violão and Demétrius Chamber in the percussion, comes with the show of launching of its first Compact disc Point of Fusing, bringing musics of the national repertoire with suitable arrangements of the original formation of 12 musicians. the show standes out Brazilian composers of reputation in instrumental music and vocal, the songs take a walk for the rhythms that characterize culture of Brazil. Saturday 07/11 in the Photozofia Cybercafé & Kitchen, from the hs.info 21:30 rmações 12 39261406… … in the film " The Garden of the Finzi Contini" , of Vittorio de Sica (1970), a family of rich Jews closes the eyes for the growth of the Nazi-fascism, that is sending Jewish poor persons for the concentration camps, taking refuge itself in its beautiful e well well-taken care of garden. but the monster comes to beat in its gate and then it is late excessively. they already do not have to who to appeal. here, I and others " poor persons estrangeiros" we were victims of the vile violence that did not deserve attention of the chiquenses or joseenses authorities. they at least did not dignaram themselves to make an inquiry. I was white of chacotas and debauches " tem" is only stolen who;. but now it, the violence, beats in the gates of the Madre Saint, strong institution, there the dumb thing of figure. police agencies had been set in motion. I do not question the fact. but why I did not deserve similar treatment? why they had not been interested when the assault occurred in my house? or it will be that finally they had understood that all, without exception, can be the victims? I only wait that, as in the film, it is not late excessively… … " Either universal, it equally likes all the things - it never disdains the infinite diversity of the things and its formas" (Leonardo of the Vinci)… … night of the pizza in the Pizzaria of Andres, this friday, 07/11, from 20hs. you can only eat to will and paid R$ 8,00, this exactly, eight Reals. drunk to the part… … speaking of the cabeludos of Liverpool, in 1964, after the thundering world-wide success, them they arrive at the cinema for the hands of Richard Lester, then famous English director, reads "The Taste of Honey" , among others, in the comedy " The Hard Day´s Night" , in Brazil, " The Kings of the IE, IE, Iê". it is a phase where music is in second plain for the idolatria of the image of the youngsters… … you know somebody that she does not know to read or to write? the project Moves Brazil will be giving young gratuitous lessons for alfabetização of e adult. registrations in the School Seting of Oliveira Snake. up to 07 of November. the course, that will have the duration of 10 months, supplies certified of the Institute Pablo Freire…

HONEY LADEN NOTES?

 -TRANSLATION THROUGH BABEL FISH- PORTUGUESE TO ENGLISH

++++

Sergio Duarte's musical partner Ricardo Vignini performs "MASTER OF PUPPETS" BY METALLICA -

http://www.youtube.com/Ricardo Vigniniwatch?v=z4oslAryVdg

(http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p149/Morgan2112_2006/RicardoVignini.jpg)

ACES HIGH - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4UVk7I5m_Wc&feature=related

MYSPACE VIDEOS - RICARDO VIGNINI - HE IS LOCATED ON THE LEFT.

http://tinyurl.com/4y5cj8

WAYN PROFILE - SAN PAOLO BRAZIL

http://www.wayn.com/waynprofile.html?member_key=4271891

MYSPACE -

http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewPicture&friendID=150666819&albumId=0

connection to Armin and HARD ROCK / METAL?

Sergio Duarte

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dBQadPQ7rE

(http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p149/Morgan2112_2006/SERGIODUARTE.jpg)

(http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p149/Morgan2112_2006/SERGIODUARTE2.jpg)

Sérgio Duarte - Folk Blues - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuX_9yaP_tU&feature=related

MORE FROM SERGIO DUARTE

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=SERGIO+DUARTE&search_type=

ARMIN'S MYSPACE

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=50913824

I HAVEN'T FOUND ANY LINK TO EITHER RICARDO VIGNINI OR SERGIO DUARTE TO ARMIN

BUT THE COINCIDES ARE TOO MUCH TO LET SLIDE BY.

ALL I HAVE FOUND IS THAT A FRIEND OF ARMIN'S - ANTONIO BELLO - (WHO I ALSO KNOW) IS FROM VENEZUELA AND BOTH PLAY AT CAFE CHAOS. I did find that Duarte and Vignini have both played in Caracas.

ANTONIO BELLO - MYSPACE

http://us.profile.myspace.cn/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=150436718

ANTONIO BELLO DOT COM

http://www.antonio-bello.com/





Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on September 21, 2008, 02:02:41 PM
Lorenzo van Rijn?

Lorenzo van Gijn – Son of a judge?

Joran van der Sloot – son of a lawyer?

Fallen Elder=Paulus?

Fallen Judge=Leo van Rijn?

Hmmm…Wonder why Jossy said his name was Lorenzo van Gijn, but didn’t tell us till way after the fact that Freddy had been detained early in the case.


Because Freddy knows the truth...Freddy has always known the truth...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on September 21, 2008, 02:38:55 PM
Lorenzo van Rijn?

Lorenzo van Gijn – Son of a judge?

Joran van der Sloot – son of a lawyer?

Fallen Elder=Paulus?

Fallen Judge=Leo van Rijn?

Hmmm…Wonder why Jossy said his name was Lorenzo van Gijn, but didn’t tell us till way after the fact that Freddy had been detained early in the case.


I'd say you got the names right, but maybe --

Elder = Leo van Rijn   (Leo the Lion, King of the jungle. Is Leo this short for Leonardo?)
Fallen Judge=Paulus

--because the family name van Rijn/Gijn is a historical name like a Croes or Wever, and in 2005 I think we all thought Paulus was a judge...(now he is a fallen judge. )

Your thoughts?

*************

FYI to all - I also don't think we should get so hung up on the term 'affair' meaning someone dating a married person.

I think Joran says in his book that he had an 'affair' by cheating on his current girlfriend with another girl (I didn't read the book, I remember reading a post on his book about this 'affair').

I've also seen it used on myspace between young teens when they cheat on their current boy/girlfriend.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on September 21, 2008, 03:03:08 PM
Lorenzo van Rijn?

Lorenzo van Gijn – Son of a judge?

Joran van der Sloot – son of a lawyer?

Fallen Elder=Paulus?

Fallen Judge=Leo van Rijn?

Hmmm…Wonder why Jossy said his name was Lorenzo van Gijn, but didn’t tell us till way after the fact that Freddy had been detained early in the case.


Because Freddy knows the truth...Freddy has always known the truth...

and because of Satish Kalpoe's June 24, 2005 Statement (notice the use of the term "THE CAMERA", not once but twice-- the camera they used perhaps 20 X before as in Joran's "we've done this 20 times before and nothing like this ever happened before..."):

"...on your question if I can remember if during of the many conversations at Joran’s home that the father said “no corpse no case”, I can say it following: The father of Joran said it in other words. The father of Joran had said: “if there is no corpse it would be difficult to arrest us”.

The second time was when
 Joran, my brother and I took the camera  to Freddy’s house. We delivered the camera  to Freddy.




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: vms on September 21, 2008, 03:14:41 PM
Caps,

If you happen to check in, could you translate this please? TIA!

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a398/vms58/SashaFreddyemailcomment-1.jpg)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: finngirl on September 21, 2008, 03:23:21 PM

From what we have learned there are two people named Max Arends(sz).

The first Max Arends is a friend of Urine and the Pimps.  He is the one I refer to as "eyebrows".  Following Natalee's disappearance he went to Valencia County College in Florida.  He has since returned and is currently living in Aruba.

The second Max (Maxito) Arendsz is the owner of the Aruba Speedshop.  At one point, he was posting and reported that he did not know Lorenzo, although he later provided the photograph of Lorenzo in his van.  It was later learned that this Max was interviewed by ALE and provided an alibi for Lorenzo, saying he was with him the night Natalee disappeared.  He is reportedly a friend of Lorenzo.

very small correction:
Andry Lopez aka grumpy/best friend of Maxito = Peeps/the SM poster.
Peeps said he/Maxito didn't know/didn't want to know LvR ...
and then shortly thereafter Peeps provided the LvR/van photo
(which was a staged photo op)

Somewhere on one of these threads there is a photograph of Max (Maxito) Arendsz who is the friend of Lorenzo, but I can't find it.  Does anyone know where it is?

Finngirl, here's another of Maxito Arendsz (far right.)  Andry Lopez (Peeps) to the left of him.

(http://i32.tinypic.com/2qimsnl.jpg)

re Rob's Antonio Bello info ...
altho I'm sure we'll be told that Bello is an extremely common name:

sandraK: Lorenzo's Dad had a VW Dealership.. He is dead.sadly..He runs with Max Arendsz & Orlando Bello. From the Aruba Speed Shop...A Kinda Strange Dude.. but harmless... SM's think he has something to do with this.. Cops Been all over him.. He's not involved...



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on September 21, 2008, 03:25:13 PM
Simian never conclusively says that there was a party

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:26 pm
The alibi story is the almost the latest.
The latest is that there’s a gap in the time-line for the boys.
It is true that one of them tried to off himself.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:55 pm
He has an alibi. So tight. So tight.

Girl comes to Aruba. Meets cool and crazy guy in C@$ino. Goes out with him. He declares that to be the case. Can’t deny it. It’s on tape.  Everybody in the C@$ino knows the group of teens, they have been drinking in there for free the whole week. After a couple of days girl meets another boy in the same C@$ino. Goes out with him.
Simian: This makes first guy really mad. So mad he confronts second boy.
First guy never denies the affair. He knows they know he was with her. However, he has an airtight alibi. Some friends say they were at home with him. Until the morning.
How can this ever be solved?

Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 11:06 am
The important “others” are the ones that supported the alibi.
No one has openly said there is no hope. Three cadaver dogs on the way. Sonar equipment to look for a body in as deep as 300 meters of water.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:13 pm
A jealous boyfriend was at home with some friends. He couldn’t have done it. Sometimes friends will cover for each other.




bumping........re: affair

Simian (when asked to clarify) says he is not into repeating himself-then posts his "ca$ino" story (repeating himself), also suggesting that his story was not about the boys-this (IMO) lends even more weight to his use of the word affair......along with Shango's mentioning concern about "teepees"



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on September 21, 2008, 07:15:39 PM
From what we have learned there are two people named Max Arends(sz).

The first Max Arends is a friend of Urine and the Pimps.  He is the one I refer to as "eyebrows".  Following Natalee's disappearance he went to Valencia County College in Florida.  He has since returned and is currently living in Aruba.

The second Max (Maxito) Arendsz is the owner of the Aruba Speedshop.  At one point, he was posting and reported that he did not know Lorenzo, although he later provided the photograph of Lorenzo in his van.  It was later learned that this Max was interviewed by ALE and provided an alibi for Lorenzo, saying he was with himthe night Natalee disappeared.  He is reportedly a friend of Lorenzo.
___________________________

This is a recent photograph of Max Arends (Eyebrows) with his grandfather.  This Max Arends was one of the Pimps.

All roads now lead back to Lorenzo again LOL!!

Wild and crazy guy Lorenzo was said to have had rave parties. So maybe he did had a rave party that night. Natalee, Joran, Kalpoes went to the party under cover of delusion. Kalpoes took Joran to the party.

We know Deepak was bored inside C&C cuz he waited outside by the car for them and even called Satish looking for him. And we know Deepak was going somewhere other than C&C cuz he took a shower to only hang for 30 min before C&C closed? (NOT).

So now they followed the honey laden notes to a rave party at Lorenzos. In a drugged state she was moved to another location by ???  But Lorenzo was the host - how could he have left his own party? It was a simple party at his house...he was the host...how could he have LEFT?

So where did Lorenzo go with Joran from ?? - 4am?

And then we know Paulus took Joran home.


So the GUY is Lorenzo
So the BOY is Joran
FALLEN JUDGE is Paulus
ELDER/FALLEN ELDER = ??



The Elder = Ben Voking
Dirty Hand = DTKM


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on September 21, 2008, 08:44:39 PM
dirty hand

Arawaks hold singing card from babylon
There is also a trio. One Babylonian. 2 Shivas.
Arawaks can’t let babylonian Card sing because hand holding it dirty too.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:55 pm
If cowboys see dirty hand, many teepees fall. (not one teepee, many) House of Babylon falls.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:22 pm
The babylonians knew it was dangerous to trade among the arawaks
A sacrifice will be made to spare the police;
to spare the teepees
Arawaks (many teepees) worried about being caught with dirty hand

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:32 pm
The sacrifice is the correct food to appease the gods, arawaks, and cowboys
but the foundations of the house of babylon will shake
even harder if Arawak Dirty Hand is revealed

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:39 pm
Every tribe has bad Indians
Every fort has bad cowboys

Babalú Says: June 27th, 2005 at 12:30 am
Concerned: No, I guess he is head of some local official corps. He is the guy that knows everything and that has been in the house of Babylonians NOT seeking pleasure for himself (for somebody else?), so Shango says. So maybe he went to search for Natalee and he is the chief of Polis.

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 12:28 pm
Babalu finally opened a window (MS Windows?) with a view into the house of Babylon with his 12:30 AM posting

Find DirtyHand! He too (he is the link!) walked in this house of Babylon.
But not to satiate desire.

[above, restated]:
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:01 pm
Arawaks often go to play in small houses of Babylon with the offspring of the Elders
the game, pg 4:  http://www.ca11.uscourts.gov/opinions/ops/200214306.pdf
                  pg 7: Arawaks "probing fetid depths"


dirty hand:
Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:55 pm
Why do they leave the Maze open?
Why hasn’t an Arawak probed it’s fetid depths.
Tell the Cowboys!
The Arawaks are hiding the path to the Maze for the Babylonians.

Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 12:11 am
All the Arawaks know the Maze which plays the poison songs (they have "probed" the fetid depths!!!)

Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 12:23 am
Follow the notes
to the poison house
where the children of the babylonians (who play in the maze)
and the arawak nation (fetid depth-probing Arawaks)
meet (DirtyHand is the link, holds the real key, a minion), under cover of delusion.
In the maze
the lions which play
shall be found.
The gamblers also took note.
Tell the cowboys!



Goodship Lollipop:
http://www.ipsn.org/lolli1.html
excerpt:
According to Jahoda, political protection was supplied by former Lake County Sheriff Tom Brown, whose elected term spanned 1978 - 1982.

 The mob bought up acreage and spent $50,000 converting the former residence into a high stakes casino that employed eighteen full-time people to accommodate the gambling high rollers and fun- loving clientele who parked their cars in the rear.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on September 22, 2008, 09:45:58 AM
So...what does Freddy know?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on September 22, 2008, 12:36:32 PM
So...what does Freddy know?


I think "Freddy" knows everything...what happened that night, what happened the 20 times before, who what where...

I am just not convinced that "Freddy" is Freddy Arambatzis anymore! ::MonkeyConfused::



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: WhiskeyGirl on September 23, 2008, 11:26:21 AM
"The Lion's Den" - another Dutch version -

Quote
Much is revealed when she grips her father's hand when they enter "the lion's den," a famous restaurant taken over by the Nazis.


http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/experience-danger-chaos-world-war/story.aspx?guid=%7B844A5BB3-5D3D-44FE-A019-50ECB8CF145F%7D&dist=hppr (http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/experience-danger-chaos-world-war/story.aspx?guid=%7B844A5BB3-5D3D-44FE-A019-50ECB8CF145F%7D&dist=hppr)

Quote
At the time, Hotel Des Indes was the most luxurious and elegant hotel in The Hague. The name spelled already the colonial and oriental atmosphere: "Hotel of the Indies." It was a popular meeting place for visitors from the Far East, especially from Indonesia, or for ex-patriots returning home. Here you could find people with similar international life experience, who would talk longingly about the East, and taste favorite oriental dishes again. ...

http://www.vanderlaaken.com/exerpt.html


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on September 23, 2008, 04:36:37 PM
So...what does Freddy know?


I think "Freddy" knows everything...what happened that night, what happened the 20 times before, who what where...

I am just not convinced that "Freddy" is Freddy Arambatzis anymore! ::MonkeyConfused::





Freddy knows everything.  He's the one with the camera.  He is definitely not an Arambatzis.  I think he's a Zedan-Martina, and so is his sister, Natasha.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: CapsLockWizard on September 24, 2008, 01:01:00 AM
So...what does Freddy know?


I think "Freddy" knows everything...what happened that night, what happened the 20 times before, who what where...

I am just not convinced that "Freddy" is Freddy Arambatzis anymore! ::MonkeyConfused::





Freddy knows everything.  He's the one with the camera.  He is definitely not an Arambatzis.  I think he's a Zedan-Martina, and so is his sister, Natasha.


He is Freddy Martina and I said it since the begining. The only person capable to do that is Freddy Martina since he did it before where there was a porn movie circling on the Web and he is the one that did it.

He is the one that will process the DVD and sell it.

He was arrested and I know him.

Will get to the bottom of this.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on September 24, 2008, 05:12:48 AM
Posted by Lala's in NAH...Thanks Lala's

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=3390.200


Re: Natalee Case Discussion #770 9/20/08 through
« Reply #212 on: September 22, 2008, 10:03:04 AM » 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hey Magnolia!  LOL  Some think the key is based in Santeria religion...some think it is based in mythology...I am beginning to think it means nothing by now. Yes, I said that...Shango so wanted Joran and the Kalpoes to be innocent and someone else...dirty hand to have all the answers. 

So we have:

Masonic
Santeria
Mythology
Marvel Comics
Gambling


Shango can be interpreted in all theses different areas and quite successfully too. What if Shango had been reading a book that week and he/she used ideas from that particular book to get his message across....what if Shango didn't have a message outside of Simian's postings...what if they both were methods of deception...I could go on and on and I have at one time or the other...what if?  It all depends on who Shango is as to what they meant...just like Simian.
end quote...


He doesn't understand Pap either

What if Shango just liked to insert himself into situations. Likes to feel important. Be the center of attention...

Caps...I don't think he is in the Netherlands...I think he is closer to home!

JMO...of course!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on September 24, 2008, 05:24:14 AM
So...what does Freddy know?


I think "Freddy" knows everything...what happened that night, what happened the 20 times before, who what where...

I am just not convinced that "Freddy" is Freddy Arambatzis anymore! ::MonkeyConfused::





Freddy knows everything.  He's the one with the camera.  He is definitely not an Arambatzis.  I think he's a Zedan-Martina, and so is his sister, Natasha.


He is Freddy Martina and I said it since the begining. The only person capable to do that is Freddy Martina since he did it before where there was a porn movie circling on the Web and he is the one that did it.

He is the one that will process the DVD and sell it.

He was arrested and I know him.

Will get to the bottom of this.



Thanks Caps...It would save some of us a whole lot of time if you can...

Questions....LOL...a few for starters...

How many Arambatzis were in Aruba in May 2005?

How many Zedans were in Aruba in 2005?

Are the pics we keep seeing of Freddy Zedan/Arambatzis/Arends really who they say they are ie Freddy Arambatzis/Zedan/Arends?

Who lived at Montanja 62 from 2005 till 2008?

Who lived at Montanja 39F and G in 2005?

Where is Freddy Martina now?

Thanks in Advance Caps!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on September 24, 2008, 09:16:56 AM
Who is Freddy Martina?   I have asked that before.  I know about Karen Martina...I think we have names confused here.  Fredday Zedan is the Freddy of choice for Joran's friend and confidant.  Even Joran admits that one.   I would like to see all the info on this Martina guy that does the porn movies.  Somehow I have missed this budding film maker all this time. 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on September 24, 2008, 09:35:05 AM
Caps
I have seen so many references when digging for info that leads back to Florida.  Have you ever heard of any Florida connections or found any in your searching?  I have found many, especially in Ft. Lauderdale.  I can't figure that out.  Nothing much in Ft. Lauderdale, but I have found lots in the Miami area.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on September 24, 2008, 10:03:58 AM
Who is Freddy Martina?   I have asked that before.  I know about Karen Martina...I think we have names confused here.  Fredday Zedan is the Freddy of choice for Joran's friend and confidant.  Even Joran admits that one.   I would like to see all the info on this Martina guy that does the porn movies.  Somehow I have missed this budding film maker all this time. 


Lala's here for Freddy Martina

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2733.120


Post 132 through about 154...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on September 24, 2008, 10:52:55 AM
Is this the Freddy you are talking about?  I am beginning to remember now.  I thought we had decided that was Freddy Zedan?  Hmmm.  Something is not right here on this Freddy guy.


CapsLockWizard
Scared Monkey
   
Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #2
« Reply #132 on: March 26, 2008, 03:43:53 AM »
   
Hi all,

There was a freddy that was arrested in 2004 for making/ preparing the porn movie of a Teen Girl, He was in KIA for something else, I do think he supose to get a work with selimar and his father worked for Blue Team. His father is a High Ranking Official in the blue Team. I do remeber that he was in for leaving the stove on and trying  to burn the Girlreinds house. The Judge at that time, knowing his father give him house arrest but he break the house arrest and went out to party. The Girlfriend call the cops becuase he was out with other girls in Bahia and C&C. He was wearing a wig that night but the girlfriend did recognise him and call the cops.

He was sent to KIA and then let go.

will check, He was a friend of David Lung and Dominquez Rodriquez and Fred they were the friend of that Baseball Pitcher Ponson who slap a Judge in Aruba on the beach.

All these are beach bums with only thing in their head is to score.

DL, DR and FRED are heavely in XTC and trafficing.
 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on September 24, 2008, 10:56:24 AM
I think Mum and I chased this guy around for days and never made any connections.  Guess I didn't look close enough.  Need more proof before I will discount Joran's Freddy since he is the one Merian points to.  Will look around again.



CapsLockWizard
Scared Monkey

Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #2
« Reply #142 on: March 26, 2008, 04:57:38 AM »

Does this 'Freddy' have a last name? Is he about 24 years old?....TIA

Now About freddy

Martina   Fred A        8/5/1980               Aruba
Martina   Wilfred E        6/12/1945              Bonaire

Fred Martina was the one that did make the porn film in Aruba. His Father is a big wig in the ALE. Both live Hooiberg 94F

Fred A , The A can be the lat name that the cops has given him and not to use his real last name to protect the father position
This is the family structure

These are the people living at the Address

Kock   Johannes J                 1/30/1972   Aruba               Hooiberg 94F
Kock, geb. Martina   Sandra                11/11/1970   Cali                Hooiberg 94FLaaf   Ashwin A                             6/1/1974                Aruba               Hooiberg 94F
Martina   Fred A                             8/5/1980                Aruba               Hooiberg 94F
Martina   Wilfred E                             6/12/1945   Bonaire               Hooiberg 94F
Martina, geb. Gonzalez   Nubia F   10/7/1949   Mocoa                Hooiberg 94F[/color]Spanner   Arelis G                             2/20/1978   San Cristobal   Hooiberg 94F

The blue are a family

The back bold is fred family

Fred us the one that made the porn movie of a young girl teen in Aruba and he is part of the gang.

go to take some zzzz.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on September 24, 2008, 10:59:33 AM
Just reposting to make it easier to research so we don't have to keep referring to another thread.  Just ignore my housekeeping here for a bit.

CapsLockWizard
Scared Monkey

Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #2
« Reply #145 on: March 26, 2008, 05:27:21 AM »
   
Quote from: finngirl on March 26, 2008, 05:05:00 AM
Quote from: MumInOhio on March 25, 2008, 08:24:59 PM
Finngirl….Posted by Buckeye originally IIRC…Notice that Jossy thinks on 8/26 that Freddy is being held for a false alibi….

Mansur says this guy was held in the beginning of the investigation and obviously the media was not made aware of this. Jossy says he is probably being held because of a false alibi for Joran van der Sloot he initially gave police.

Page 152
[Chapter] 11 Breakthrough Due to Best Friend Freddy

The police even interrogates all my friends and acquaintances. On June 12 2005 they interrogate my best friend, Freddy Zedan.

Quote from: klaasend on May 30, 2007, 04:09:04 PM
Posted by Ade69 (a new poster at RU, and could be Joran for all I know, regarding the explanation in Joran's book about Freddy's statements:

The translation is alright, it is probably the source for the "going in and out of conscious"-myth.

Here are the two last paragraphs of chapter 11 with Joran's explanation:

Freddy has been put under enormous pressure by the police, he was even arrested. He was terrified and as a Venezuelan in Aruba very vulnerable due to fear of deportation. He became a string puppet for the police and he did everything to prevent being arrested again.

chapter 11 deals w/ june 2005 events involving Freddy

the Freddy/K2 arrest was in august 2005

"he was even arrested" ... "to prevent being arrested again"
refers to june, yes?




Well this show then that Freddy Zedan has notting to do with the case. it is the other protected Fred A. Every body calls Fred A. Freddy. So Fred Zedan is venezuelan and these are DUTCH... wonder ..


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on September 24, 2008, 11:02:02 AM
CapsLockWizard
Scared Monkey

Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #2
« Reply #147 on: March 26, 2008, 05:38:41 AM »
   
Quote from: MumInOhio on March 26, 2008, 05:28:28 AM
Caps......It may have been the same judge that gave Ponson community service, so as not to mess up his work visa in the US for baseball, that let Joran out to go to school in the Netherlands.

I believe it was the precedent used in Joran's case.

Yep it was the same Judge. From inside KIA, the only man that do films is F.A.M. he was 25 at the time.

Fits the profile. Check the father...see who he is..I think he is a Sub prosecuter...something like that.


CapsLockWizard
Scared Monkey

Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #2
« Reply #152 on: March 26, 2008, 05:56:57 AM »
   
Quote from: MumInOhio on March 26, 2008, 05:49:48 AM
Caps...There is a Karen Martina in the Dr. Phil documents listed as a friend of Freddy and Joran.  She was interviewed twice by Jacobs.

there is the missing link...it is a Martina.

Martina, Fred A = Martina, Fredy ARAMBATZIS

I will check the A initial from registry later.



CapsLockWizard
Scared Monkey
   
Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #2
« Reply #154 on: March 26, 2008, 06:14:06 AM »
   
Quote from: MumInOhio on March 26, 2008, 05:49:48 AM
Caps...There is a Karen Martina in the Dr. Phil documents listed as a friend of Freddy and Joran.  She was interviewed twice by Jacobs.


Now for Karen,

In my Database I have all the Martina but no Karen....Hmmmm

Do you have some info on this Karen.. DOB or age.

The only thing I think is that Kock Martina Sandra could have a use a false name or she must have another initials.

No Karen Martina in DATABASE.

Need to be checked out...

it now 7:15 , time for some kellogs honey weed & milk with omega-3 lol


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on September 24, 2008, 11:52:20 AM
Who does this sound like?

He thrives on any kind of perceived power or authority and will readily craft up ambiguous statements or manufacture situations which increase his influence. The sad part, is that although he excels in finding people to lead, he lacks the basic integrity to do them any good.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: finngirl on September 25, 2008, 04:09:02 AM
Who does this sound like?

He thrives on any kind of perceived power or authority and will readily craft up ambiguous statements or manufacture situations which increase his influence. The sad part, is that although he excels in finding people to lead, he lacks the basic integrity to do them any good.

my ex?  :wink:



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on September 25, 2008, 06:28:59 AM
Finn   ::MonkeyHaHa::

Why did the girl owe money?

Because that is the very first story Joran old.... ::MonkeyWink::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on September 25, 2008, 06:30:36 AM
Finn   ::MonkeyHaHa::

Why did the girl owe money?

Because that is the very first story Joran told.... ::MonkeyWink::

edit old to told....


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on September 25, 2008, 07:05:12 AM
Mary that was not a Virgin...Natalee

First story told...Natalee was a Lesbian...didn't want to go to the University of Alabama, she wanted to go elsewhere with her girlfriend???


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on September 25, 2008, 07:42:28 AM
Help Please...I can't find Shango's last post...I have looked in 4 FP threads and I don't see it at the time Finn gave back on Page 13...TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on September 25, 2008, 09:06:59 AM
Just reposting to make it easier to research so we don't have to keep referring to another thread.  Just ignore my housekeeping here for a bit.

CapsLockWizard
Scared Monkey

Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #2
« Reply #145 on: March 26, 2008, 05:27:21 AM »
   
Quote from: finngirl on March 26, 2008, 05:05:00 AM
Quote from: MumInOhio on March 25, 2008, 08:24:59 PM
Finngirl….Posted by Buckeye originally IIRC…Notice that Jossy thinks on 8/26 that Freddy is being held for a false alibi….

Mansur says this guy was held in the beginning of the investigation and obviously the media was not made aware of this. Jossy says he is probably being held because of a false alibi for Joran van der Sloot he initially gave police.

Page 152
[Chapter] 11 Breakthrough Due to Best Friend Freddy

The police even interrogates all my friends and acquaintances. On June 12 2005 they interrogate my best friend, Freddy Zedan.

Quote from: klaasend on May 30, 2007, 04:09:04 PM
Posted by Ade69 (a new poster at RU, and could be Joran for all I know, regarding the explanation in Joran's book about Freddy's statements:

The translation is alright, it is probably the source for the "going in and out of conscious"-myth.

Here are the two last paragraphs of chapter 11 with Joran's explanation:

Freddy has been put under enormous pressure by the police, he was even arrested. He was terrified and as a Venezuelan in Aruba very vulnerable due to fear of deportation. He became a string puppet for the police and he did everything to prevent being arrested again.

chapter 11 deals w/ june 2005 events involving Freddy

the Freddy/K2 arrest was in august 2005

"he was even arrested" ... "to prevent being arrested again"
refers to june, yes?




Well this show then that Freddy Zedan has notting to do with the case. it is the other protected Fred A. Every body calls Fred A. Freddy. So Fred Zedan is venezuelan and these are DUTCH... wonder ..









Jossy must have had a man on the inside


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on September 25, 2008, 09:07:58 AM
can't confirm........
 ::MonkeyCool::




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on September 25, 2008, 07:22:24 PM
I found Karen Martina on Curacao a few months ago.  She is going by the name Paulina.  This is probably why Caps couldn't find her in the registry.  There are a bunch of Martinas there.  I think her father's name is Wilfred.  If Freddy Alexander Zedan has a paternal grandmother with the last name Martina, then he could be Freddy Alexander Zedan-Martina.  When he was arrested for the porn video, ALE could have intentional listed him as Freddy A. Martina so we wouldn't find out. ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on September 25, 2008, 07:26:55 PM
Mary that was not a Virgin...Natalee

First story told...Natalee was a Lesbian...didn't want to go to the University of Alabama, she wanted to go elsewhere with her girlfriend???



I interpreted Mary that was not a virgin as our dear friend JR.  We were told that she was also in the video that night.  As our friend told us - she wasn't holding the camera the entire time!!!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: finngirl on September 26, 2008, 12:13:37 AM
Help Please...I can't find Shango's last post...I have looked in 4 FP threads and I don't see it at the time Finn gave back on Page 13...TIA

I'll look for it ... which post/what time?



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Magnolia on September 26, 2008, 12:27:29 AM
Could LAMB be an acronym?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on September 26, 2008, 04:27:50 AM
Help Please...I can't find Shango's last post...I have looked in 4 FP threads and I don't see it at the time Finn gave back on Page 13...TIA

I'll look for it ... which post/what time?




Thanks Finn...I found it...

Shango on June 30th, 2005 2:50 am
Always remember that what is unseen is greater than what is seen

All has been seen from afar

and whispered by olorum to an earthbound son

I must leave to feed the messengers

The gods are talking

Good Night



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on September 26, 2008, 06:49:33 AM
Eyes in the Sky...Solely for Counter narcotics...

http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/48722.pdf


Although the Consulate General nearly closed during the
mid-1990s, the U.S. presence has ramped up over the past
decade to provide a platform for multiple civilian and military
agencies, most of which are involved in the fight against
drug trafficking, illegal immigration, money laundering and
narco-terrorism. A glance at a map shows the strategic
importance of the Netherlands Antilles and Aruba to South
American narcotics smuggling operations targeting the
United States and Europe.

The DHS Immigration/Customs and Border Protection
preclearance facility at Reina Beatrix Airport in Aruba
processes several thousand passengers a day on their way to
the United States. Arrests of foreign and American drug
mules is a common occurrence; many are detained for several
months prior to extradition to the United States.
DEA agents share information and provide technical
assistance to local law enforcement officials, especially in
Curaçao, St. Maarten and Aruba. This coordination has led
to numerous prosecutions and extraditions of drug traffickers
and other organized crime figures operating in the
region.

The Air Force forward operating locations provide aerial
detection and surveillance on the high seas. They differ from
military bases in that they exist solely to provide logistical
support to multinational counter-narcotics air operations.
Aircrews rotate in for a few weeks or months, minimizing
the U.S. military footprint in the region. U.S. aircraft transmit
information to Dutch and other nations’ coast guard
and navy vessels so they can intercept traffickers traveling on
high-speed motorboats carrying 500–800 kilos of cocaine or
heroin.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on September 26, 2008, 07:57:46 AM
So, Big Brother is watching the Aruba coast?  I wonder if they have any information about activity around the fish trap.  There was speculation that it was a drug "post office".


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on September 26, 2008, 08:31:01 AM
So, Big Brother is watching the Aruba coast?  I wonder if they have any information about activity around the fish trap.  There was speculation that it was a drug "post office".


I bet they saw a whole lot...Electricity out on June 8th, IIRC...Was it around the Airport?  Radar was down for boats...Was the Airport Facility down as well????

Arrests the next day  ::MonkeyEek::

I wonder who Big Brother works with in Aruba to do their surveillance?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on September 26, 2008, 08:48:45 AM
Just reposting to make it easier to research so we don't have to keep referring to another thread.  Just ignore my housekeeping here for a bit.

CapsLockWizard
Scared Monkey

Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #2
« Reply #145 on: March 26, 2008, 05:27:21 AM »
   
Quote from: finngirl on March 26, 2008, 05:05:00 AM
Quote from: MumInOhio on March 25, 2008, 08:24:59 PM
Finngirl….Posted by Buckeye originally IIRC…Notice that Jossy thinks on 8/26 that Freddy is being held for a false alibi….

Mansur says this guy was held in the beginning of the investigation and obviously the media was not made aware of this. Jossy says he is probably being held because of a false alibi for Joran van der Sloot he initially gave police.

Page 152
[Chapter] 11 Breakthrough Due to Best Friend Freddy

The police even interrogates all my friends and acquaintances. On June 12 2005 they interrogate my best friend, Freddy Zedan.

Quote from: klaasend on May 30, 2007, 04:09:04 PM
Posted by Ade69 (a new poster at RU, and could be Joran for all I know, regarding the explanation in Joran's book about Freddy's statements:

The translation is alright, it is probably the source for the "going in and out of conscious"-myth.

Here are the two last paragraphs of chapter 11 with Joran's explanation:

Freddy has been put under enormous pressure by the police, he was even arrested. He was terrified and as a Venezuelan in Aruba very vulnerable due to fear of deportation. He became a string puppet for the police and he did everything to prevent being arrested again.

chapter 11 deals w/ june 2005 events involving Freddy

the Freddy/K2 arrest was in august 2005

"he was even arrested" ... "to prevent being arrested again"
refers to june, yes?




Well this show then that Freddy Zedan has notting to do with the case. it is the other protected Fred A. Every body calls Fred A. Freddy. So Fred Zedan is venezuelan and these are DUTCH... wonder ..









Jossy must have had a man on the inside

So what date was Freddy arrested the first time...June 11th...One of the FP posters said that suspects were not normally questioned until the day after their arrest...didn't find that true with J2K though!

Also questioned June 16 and 17...Only way to make Freddy the 5th is to count Guido and put Freddy at 6/11 or discount Guido and put Lorenzo in on June 16th and Freddy on June 17th? ::MonkeyConfused::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on September 26, 2008, 08:50:36 AM
Could LAMB be an acronym?


Magnolia...Do you have something in mind? TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on September 26, 2008, 08:52:29 AM
can't confirm........
 ::MonkeyCool::





COLUMBO...you are not buying Armin as Simian, are you?  ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Magnolia on September 26, 2008, 10:28:51 AM
Could LAMB be an acronym?


Magnolia...Do you have something in mind? TIA

Well no....not exactly, but the last two letters caught my eye.
I thought it might be Masonic Burial and thought it might be a clue as
to location.  I guess it could be anything or nothing.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on September 26, 2008, 05:18:33 PM
Eyes in the Sky...Solely for Counter narcotics...

http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/48722.pdf


Although the Consulate General nearly closed during the
mid-1990s, the U.S. presence has ramped up over the past
decade to provide a platform for multiple civilian and military
agencies, most of which are involved in the fight against
drug trafficking, illegal immigration, money laundering and
narco-terrorism. A glance at a map shows the strategic
importance of the Netherlands Antilles and Aruba to South
American narcotics smuggling operations targeting the
United States and Europe.

The DHS Immigration/Customs and Border Protection
preclearance facility at Reina Beatrix Airport in Aruba
processes several thousand passengers a day on their way to
the United States. Arrests of foreign and American drug
mules is a common occurrence; many are detained for several
months prior to extradition to the United States.
DEA agents share information and provide technical
assistance to local law enforcement officials, especially in
Curaçao, St. Maarten and Aruba. This coordination has led
to numerous prosecutions and extraditions of drug traffickers
and other organized crime figures operating in the
region.

The Air Force forward operating locations provide aerial
detection and surveillance on the high seas. They differ from
military bases in that they exist solely to provide logistical
support to multinational counter-narcotics air operations.
Aircrews rotate in for a few weeks or months, minimizing
the U.S. military footprint in the region. U.S. aircraft transmit
information to Dutch and other nations’ coast guard
and navy vessels so they can intercept traffickers traveling on
high-speed motorboats carrying 500–800 kilos of cocaine or
heroin.


Olorum:
http://fly.hiwaay.net/~pspoole/echelon.html




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on September 26, 2008, 05:19:34 PM
can't confirm........
 ::MonkeyCool::





COLUMBO...you are not buying Armin as Simian, are you?  ::MonkeyHaHa::

the answer to that question is in the post that preceded the one you quoted......


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on September 26, 2008, 05:33:45 PM
can't confirm........
 ::MonkeyCool::





COLUMBO...you are not buying Armin as Simian, are you?  ::MonkeyHaHa::

the answer to that question is in the post that preceded the one you quoted......


And I don't even have to look at that post to know who you mean... ::MonkeyWink::

So who is Shango? Any Hints?  ::MonkeyCool::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on September 26, 2008, 05:39:46 PM
can't confirm........
 ::MonkeyCool::





COLUMBO...you are not buying Armin as Simian, are you?  ::MonkeyHaHa::

the answer to that question is in the post that preceded the one you quoted......


And I don't even have to look at that post to know who you mean... ::MonkeyWink::

So who is Shango? Any Hints?  ::MonkeyCool::

the listener is not the SINNER

one straight path (opposite of crooked path)
the house with the path is entered
no loot many answers
magical letters which spell SIN (listens to sinners)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on September 26, 2008, 05:48:57 PM
looked from afar with great acuity (keeness of hearing, sight, intellect)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on September 26, 2008, 05:51:16 PM
excerpt:
“ ICE and the other federal agencies in Operation Caribbean Corridor--DEA, FBI and the U.S. Coast Guard--are working together, efficiently and intelligently to stop the transshipment of drugs and other contraband in the Caribbean Basin,” said LYDIA ST. JOHN-MELLADO, the Special Agent in Charge of ICE investigations in Puerto Rico. “ICE will continue using all its resources to fight and win the war against drugs in this part of the world.”

http://www.usdoj.gov/dea/pubs/states/newsrel/carib090505.html



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on September 26, 2008, 07:50:50 PM
can't confirm........
 ::MonkeyCool::





COLUMBO...you are not buying Armin as Simian, are you?  ::MonkeyHaHa::

the answer to that question is in the post that preceded the one you quoted......

I suppose even a confession won't convince you?  Oh well.... :roll:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on September 26, 2008, 10:20:27 PM
can't confirm........
 ::MonkeyCool::





COLUMBO...you are not buying Armin as Simian, are you?  ::MonkeyHaHa::

the answer to that question is in the post that preceded the one you quoted......

I suppose even a confession won't convince you?  Oh well.... :roll:

look at that......you posted my words.......the wonders of modern technology


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on September 27, 2008, 10:16:47 AM
can't confirm........
 ::MonkeyCool::





COLUMBO...you are not buying Armin as Simian, are you?  ::MonkeyHaHa::

the answer to that question is in the post that preceded the one you quoted......

I suppose even a confession won't convince you?  Oh well.... :roll:

look at that......you posted my words.......the wonders of modern technology

LOL


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on September 28, 2008, 05:47:00 PM
Does anyone know when Diario will publish Part 3?  I would love to know how the Sloots are responding to Parts 1 and 2.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Magnolia on September 28, 2008, 08:59:07 PM
SIN=Surveillance Inteligence Network?



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on September 28, 2008, 09:35:54 PM
quoting from earlier:

the listener is not the SINNER

one straight path (opposite of crooked path)
the house with the path is entered
no loot many answers
magical letters which spell SIN (listens to sinners)

question: who LISTENS to SINNERS with great ACUITY?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on September 29, 2008, 08:42:34 AM
quoting from earlier:

the listener is not the SINNER

one straight path (opposite of crooked path)
the house with the path is entered
no loot many answers
magical letters which spell SIN (listens to sinners)

question: who LISTENS to SINNERS with great ACUITY?


Well I can think of one person in Aruba right off the bat, but he is not whom you are referring to...LOL

So what was Williams, FBI or DEA, maybe HLS?  Was his name even Eric Williams?

How did he really hook up with Natalee's family? Paul Lilley or was it really Charles Croes? What was he doing there that weekend?

How is Williams tied to Julia Renfro?  Some-one remind me please how she got hooked up with Natalee's family?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on September 29, 2008, 08:56:26 AM
Some random thoughts from the weekend…

We heard that Lorenzo was questioned earlier in the week, that was posted around 6/10 or 6/11…and that he made a deal to co-operate….

Williams…Wonder if he left…We were told there were FBI agents on the case from day 1?

Vand der Straten told Greta, IIRC that he picked up 1 FBI agent on June 2nd or 3rd?

Deepak said he had a visit from a secret FBI informant!

Lorenzo keeps walking….and singing!


And some questions...

Guido Lorenzo Wever questioned June 3rd? Which part of that name is correct?

Did Lorenzo leave and go to the Netherlands?

Was Lorenzo's house seached?

If so how long was he in the Netherlands?

Did his friend Max Arendz go the Netherlands?

Didn't Condi meet with Oduber on June 7th. or 8th. and discuss Natalee's case?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on September 29, 2008, 10:26:30 AM
quoting from earlier:

the listener is not the SINNER

one straight path (opposite of crooked path)
the house with the path is entered
no loot many answers
magical letters which spell SIN (listens to sinners)

question: who LISTENS to SINNERS with great ACUITY?


Well I can think of one person in Aruba right off the bat, but he is not whom you are referring to...LOL

So what was Williams, FBI or DEA, maybe HLS?  Was his name even Eric Williams?

How did he really hook up with Natalee's family? Paul Lilley or was it really Charles Croes? What was he doing there that weekend?

How is Williams tied to Julia Renfro?  Some-one remind me please how she got hooked up with Natalee's family?

Very good question....very good...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Sam on September 30, 2008, 06:35:15 PM
quoting from earlier:

the listener is not the SINNER

one straight path (opposite of crooked path)
the house with the path is entered
no loot many answers
magical letters which spell SIN (listens to sinners)

question: who LISTENS to SINNERS with great ACUITY?

Columbo,

Does this mean a priest or minister?

straight path

house = church


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on September 30, 2008, 07:04:08 PM
quoting from earlier:

the listener is not the SINNER

one straight path (opposite of crooked path)
the house with the path is entered
no loot many answers
magical letters which spell SIN (listens to sinners)

question: who LISTENS to SINNERS with great ACUITY?

Columbo,

Does this mean a priest or minister?

straight path

house = church

Sam, or the "path" could also be one used by horses. A stable/barn.
 
Merian Ernest 7/26/05 3:51pm  "... There are no donkeys or mules in chess only horses..."

 



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on September 30, 2008, 07:14:05 PM
quoting from earlier:

the listener is not the SINNER

one straight path (opposite of crooked path)
the house with the path is entered
no loot many answers
magical letters which spell SIN (listens to sinners)

question: who LISTENS to SINNERS with great ACUITY?

Columbo,

Does this mean a priest or minister?

straight path

house = church

the house (of babylon) with the path (to the maze)
the maze is difficult for the supposed guilty, even if innocent
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-VgOgQjYUA
the lamb ran bleating afraid to walk through the maze
even if you play cards in the house of babylon as an arawak you still have DirtyHand
(DirtyHand knows, so does the elder)
the fallen judge and the singing card are of the same hand but it is dangerous for the arawaks to play it


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on September 30, 2008, 07:15:30 PM
quoting from earlier:

the listener is not the SINNER

one straight path (opposite of crooked path)
the house with the path is entered
no loot many answers
magical letters which spell SIN (listens to sinners)

question: who LISTENS to SINNERS with great ACUITY?

Columbo,

Does this mean a priest or minister?

straight path

house = church

Sam, or the "path" could also be one used by horses. A stable/barn.
 
Merian Ernest 7/26/05 3:51pm  "... There are no donkeys or mules in chess only horses..."

 




the father is caught in a legal check mate


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on September 30, 2008, 07:47:56 PM
quoting from earlier:

the listener is not the SINNER

one straight path (opposite of crooked path)
the house with the path is entered
no loot many answers
magical letters which spell SIN (listens to sinners)

question: who LISTENS to SINNERS with great ACUITY?

Columbo,

Does this mean a priest or minister?

straight path

house = church

Sam, or the "path" could also be one used by horses. A stable/barn.
 
Merian Ernest 7/26/05 3:51pm  "... There are no donkeys or mules in chess only horses..."

 




the father is caught in a legal check mate
Yep, the father did not testify against the son, and one witness (Joran) is no witness. That is the legal checkmate the father pulled off  - was caught up in. The father knows the halls of the legal system (palace) very, very well.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on September 30, 2008, 07:49:32 PM
Anybody think that the 'den' could refer to an "opium den"? (just tossin' it out there...Jonny Depp's character in the movie 'From Hell' frequented Opium Dens...) Could opium be the main export?

I'm trying to understand what "magical letters that spell SIN" means  I can't make a connection with anything on this site but maybe a site like this is what we need to decipher the letters that make 'SIN?

http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/2763/witchy/alphabets.html


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Magnolia on September 30, 2008, 08:29:01 PM
quoting from earlier:

the listener is not the SINNER

one straight path (opposite of crooked path)
the house with the path is entered
no loot many answers
magical letters which spell SIN (listens to sinners)

question: who LISTENS to SINNERS with great ACUITY?

Columbo,

Does this mean a priest or minister?

straight path

house = church

Sam, or the "path" could also be one used by horses. A stable/barn.
 
Merian Ernest 7/26/05 3:51pm  "... There are no donkeys or mules in chess only horses..."

 




the father is caught in a legal check mate
[/quote

Paulus is usually referred to as the elder.  Could the father be a priest.
as Sam suggested, and somebody confessed.  Father is in a checkmate
because he can't tell what was confessed.
Freddy would be the only one religious enough to confess.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on October 01, 2008, 01:36:05 AM
quoting from earlier:

the listener is not the SINNER

one straight path (opposite of crooked path)
the house with the path is entered
no loot many answers
magical letters which spell SIN (listens to sinners)

question: who LISTENS to SINNERS with great ACUITY?

Columbo,

Does this mean a priest or minister?

straight path

house = church

Sam, or the "path" could also be one used by horses. A stable/barn.
 
Merian Ernest 7/26/05 3:51pm  "... There are no donkeys or mules in chess only horses..."

 




the father is caught in a legal check mate
[/quote

Paulus is usually referred to as the elder.  Could the father be a priest.
as Sam suggested, and somebody confessed.  Father is in a checkmate
because he can't tell what was confessed.
Freddy would be the only one religious enough to confess.

Mag,
I think that 'Fallen Judge' fits Paulus better than "Elder" or "fallen Elder". Just my opinion once again.  Back when codetalkers were writing their 'prose' nobody knew Paulus was not a judge. It was told he was a 'judge in training'. So for a codetalker to write about a 'fallen judge' I think that appropriately confirms Paulus. Again just MHO.

But that goes back to me believing that there is a Judge/Fallen Judge and an Elder/Fallen Elder and one son was late for school, and one son was on time for school....Two fathers and Two sons.

I think Joran confessed. And Beth saw that confession torn in 1/2 as she waited to talk to someone at the Polis station. And I also think there was another son brought into a jail cell that was hidden - as all were skered of his daddy......


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on October 01, 2008, 09:28:00 AM
Anybody think that the 'den' could refer to an "opium den"? (just tossin' it out there...Jonny Depp's character in the movie 'From Hell' frequented Opium Dens...) Could opium be the main export?

I'm trying to understand what "magical letters that spell SIN" means  I can't make a connection with anything on this site but maybe a site like this is what we need to decipher the letters that make 'SIN?

http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/2763/witchy/alphabets.html


Hi Poochy...Found these here...a different path...Dutch Marine, FBI or Eyes in the Sky...

http://www.acronymattic.com/SIN.html

http://www.acronymfinder.com/SIN~2.html


Service Identification Number

Special Intelligence Network

Shipping Intelligence Network

Shipping Identification Number

Shipment Identification Number

Strategic Intelligence Network


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on October 01, 2008, 09:37:22 AM
quoting from earlier:

the listener is not the SINNER

one straight path (opposite of crooked path)
the house with the path is entered
no loot many answers
magical letters which spell SIN (listens to sinners)

question: who LISTENS to SINNERS with great ACUITY?

Columbo,

Does this mean a priest or minister?

straight path

house = church

Sam, or the "path" could also be one used by horses. A stable/barn.
 
Merian Ernest 7/26/05 3:51pm  "... There are no donkeys or mules in chess only horses..."

 




the father is caught in a legal check mate
[/quote

Paulus is usually referred to as the elder.  Could the father be a priest.
as Sam suggested, and somebody confessed.  Father is in a checkmate
because he can't tell what was confessed.
Freddy would be the only one religious enough to confess.


Sam and Magnolia... Interesting thoughts.

El Padre...soon a new truth will be unveiled

Freddy confessing also makes sense as to why he was questioned so many times. Do not take a lot of stock in all the police tapes as we know very early on that the Kalpoes were told they could expect to be taped.

Hmmmm...didn't Freddy even mention this?

We also know from the early FP posters that the pics on the personal sites were changed right before the arrests on June 9th. Also changed on Satish's and maybe Deepak's before the August arrests.

10 days to put a plan in place!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on October 01, 2008, 09:49:09 AM
Quote Poochy

Mag,
I think that 'Fallen Judge' fits Paulus better than "Elder" or "fallen Elder". Just my opinion once again.  Back when codetalkers were writing their 'prose' nobody knew Paulus was not a judge. It was told he was a 'judge in training'. So for a codetalker to write about a 'fallen judge' I think that appropriately confirms Paulus. Again just MHO.

But that goes back to me believing that there is a Judge/Fallen Judge and an Elder/Fallen Elder and one son was late for school, and one son was on time for school....Two fathers and Two sons.


I think Joran confessed. And Beth saw that confession torn in 1/2 as she waited to talk to someone at the Polis station. And I also think there was another son brought into a jail cell that was hidden - as all were skered of his daddy......

Poochy…I beg to differ on this. Around June 9th to 11th. on the FP some of the Aruban posters said that Paulus was a lawyer.  The Judge in training evolved after those posts. And I think Anita is still calling him a Judge!  ::MonkeyHaHa::


Two fathers and Two sons…One the son of a Lawyer…One the son of a Judge…

Stuck on  Joran/Paulus van der Sloot and Lorenzo/Leo van Gijn ::MonkeyWink::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on October 01, 2008, 10:31:45 AM
looked from afar with great acuity (keeness of hearing, sight, intellect)



<snippet>

I'm trying to understand what "magical letters that spell SIN" means  I can't make a connection with anything on this site but maybe a site like this is what we need to decipher the letters that make 'SIN?

http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/2763/witchy/alphabets.html


Hi Poochy...Found these here...a different path...Dutch Marine, FBI or Eyes in the Sky...

http://www.acronymattic.com/SIN.html

http://www.acronymfinder.com/SIN~2.html


Service Identification Number

Special Intelligence Network

Shipping Intelligence Network

Shipping Identification Number

Shipment Identification Number

Strategic Intelligence Network



Colombo - if you're hinting at INTEL, then Mum - you may be onto something!

S.I.N. = Special Intelligence Network   

Besides being the name of a movie
http://www.vod.com/video/123884/The-S.I.N.-Special-Intelligence-Network/?CLICK=85836&ct=5935

it's also a type of communications network designed for the ONI by VTMilcom corp:

http://www.vtmilcom.com/CorporateProfile.htm

"...Design and Installation of Special Intelligence Network (SIN) for Office of Naval Intelligence (ONI) at National Maritime Intelligence Center (NMIC), Suitland, MD..."

http://www.vtmilcom.com/NetworkSystems.htm

 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on October 01, 2008, 11:00:29 AM
Poochy...LOL...Look where that got me!  Googled Special Intelligence Network+Caribbean and came up with a Keystone!!!!

http://www.keystone-intelligence.com/billcv.htm





Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Magnolia on October 01, 2008, 11:54:56 AM
Quote Poochy

Mag,
I think that 'Fallen Judge' fits Paulus better than "Elder" or "fallen Elder". Just my opinion once again.  Back when codetalkers were writing their 'prose' nobody knew Paulus was not a judge. It was told he was a 'judge in training'. So for a codetalker to write about a 'fallen judge' I think that appropriately confirms Paulus. Again just MHO.

But that goes back to me believing that there is a Judge/Fallen Judge and an Elder/Fallen Elder and one son was late for school, and one son was on time for school....Two fathers and Two sons.


I think Joran confessed. And Beth saw that confession torn in 1/2 as she waited to talk to someone at the Polis station. And I also think there was another son brought into a jail cell that was hidden - as all were skered of his daddy......

Poochy…I beg to differ on this. Around June 9th to 11th. on the FP some of the Aruban posters said that Paulus was a lawyer.  The Judge in training evolved after those posts. And I think Anita is still calling him a Judge!  ::MonkeyHaHa::


Two fathers and Two sons…One the son of a Lawyer…One the son of a Judge…

Stuck on  Joran/Paulus van der Sloot and Lorenzo/Leo van Gijn ::MonkeyWink::


I think that several terms are used to refer to Paulus.
I think that there are two sons and one father; ie Paulus & Joran and Paulus & Lorenzo.
I think that when capital letters were used all in a row that it is an acronym for
something that we are left to figure out.
Remember the Priest that would not meet with Dave...probably a good man,
but knew he would have to lie to Dave and afraid that he would give away
the fact that he had heard Freddy's confession in the confessional.
That is a heavy burden to bear when one see's the troubles being caused
by the case.
I do think that Beth saw a written confession in the Polis Sta.
All just my oninions.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on October 01, 2008, 12:12:10 PM
Poochy...LOL...Look where that got me!  Googled Special Intelligence Network+Caribbean and came up with a Keystone!!!!

http://www.keystone-intelligence.com/billcv.htm

LOL Mum! Interesting item in the forefront of that website!

"....The Lamb and the elder are not the keystone in the Arch of Corruption..."





Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on October 01, 2008, 12:29:31 PM
Poochy...LOL...Look where that got me!  Googled Special Intelligence Network+Caribbean and came up with a Keystone!!!!

http://www.keystone-intelligence.com/billcv.htm

LOL Mum! Interesting item in the forefront of that website!

"....The Lamb and the elder are not the keystone in the Arch of Corruption..."






LOL...I had to go back as the picture didn't load the first time I was there.  Scrolled over it...no name...LOL

Quite a resume some of those fellows have...FBI, SAC...

Reminds me, is Hector PESQUERA related to Jorge, anyone know? TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on October 01, 2008, 12:32:39 PM
Magnolia...I think Beth saw a crumpled up statement on her first visit to the Police Station. Would have been 5/31, I think. This was too early for "The Confession".


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on October 01, 2008, 12:48:36 PM
Saw this on the FP last night and there is just no way to convince me that this arrest had nothing to do with Natalee's case!

http://scaredmonkeys.com/category/natalee-holloway/page/144/

Natalee Holloway; Saturday June 11

According to Fox News scroll and the AP; a fourth suspect has been arrested in Aruba in conjunction with the disappearance of Natalee Holloway.  The investigators are not discussing it at this time. Thanks to the Riehl World for the initial information. Looks as though the AP is now confirming it as well. Also, thanks to Chris Lupo for the tip this morning!
It was unclear if the 6 a.m. arrest was related to the admission. The same team of officers who arrested five others in the case during the past week went to a home just outside Oranjestad, the capital, and came out with a handcuffed man who looked to be in his 20s.

Saturday morning, police refused to comment on the arrest or say if they had discovered anything overnight that solved the mystery of what happened to Natalee Holloway, 18, who was last seen in the early hours of May 30.



So who was arrested on June 11th?

Where there arrests on June 16th?

Steve arrested AM of June 17th.  Nothing from Freddy from 6/17 until 6/28 when we see a statement by Lorenzo as well.

And don't forget Guido Lorenzo Wever!

Lorenzo "questioned" early in the first week, house searched!

Jossy said Freddy was detained early...

If Jossy has a man on the inside this doesn't get us to Paulus as the 5th. JMO...LOL



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on October 01, 2008, 01:59:54 PM
Saw this on the FP last night and there is just no way to convince me that this arrest had nothing to do with Natalee's case!

http://scaredmonkeys.com/category/natalee-holloway/page/144/

Natalee Holloway; Saturday June 11

According to Fox News scroll and the AP; a fourth suspect has been arrested in Aruba in conjunction with the disappearance of Natalee Holloway.  The investigators are not discussing it at this time. Thanks to the Riehl World for the initial information. Looks as though the AP is now confirming it as well. Also, thanks to Chris Lupo for the tip this morning!
It was unclear if the 6 a.m. arrest was related to the admission. The same team of officers who arrested five others in the case during the past week went to a home just outside Oranjestad, the capital, and came out with a handcuffed man who looked to be in his 20s.

Saturday morning, police refused to comment on the arrest or say if they had discovered anything overnight that solved the mystery of what happened to Natalee Holloway, 18, who was last seen in the early hours of May 30.



So who was arrested on June 11th?

Where there arrests on June 16th?

Steve arrested AM of June 17th.  Nothing from Freddy from 6/17 until 6/28 when we see a statement by Lorenzo as well.

And don't forget Guido Lorenzo Wever!

Lorenzo "questioned" early in the first week, house searched!

Jossy said Freddy was detained early...

If Jossy has a man on the inside this doesn't get us to Paulus as the 5th. JMO...LOL



the elder had one or two cards up his sleeve-they have been played and lost-will one of the cards (DirtyHand) sing?

the important others are the ones who supported the alibi

DirtyHand is the keystone in the arch of corruption (if he sings many teepees fall-including polis-his reach is long, the long arm)

he is the link to the children of the elders and the arawak nation......he holds the key to open unknown doors:

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 9:41 pm
One straight path
to the house of Rave,
while of gold bricks
the road is not paved,
answers mysterious lie within
magical letters which spell sin
XTC DNA

DirtyHand too has walked in this house of babylon, but not to satiate desire
(he holds the key-does he live there? or work there? he's worked for elders for a long time)

Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 12:23 am
Follow the notes
to the poison house
where the children of the babylonians
and the arawak nation
meet, under cover of delusion. (to trade: "play the game")
In the maze
the lions which play (the game!!!)
shall be found.
The gamblers also took note.
Tell the cowboys!

.....it was dangerous to tradeamong the arawaks


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on October 01, 2008, 02:02:58 PM
lions which play=certain members of arawak nation

lamb & elder stepping stone to fetid pool of deception

fetid arawak king

why hasn't an arawak probed its fetid depths

does the king have a pool?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on October 01, 2008, 02:40:35 PM
Magnolia...I think Beth saw a crumpled up statement on her first visit to the Police Station. Would have been 5/31, I think. This was too early for "The Confession".

I think I read it in Beth's book, that while sitting in the polis station she noticed a torn up confession of joran's.

If I were her, I would have knocked over his bowl of frosted flakes and while he was cleaning it up I would have grabbed it... or taken a pic of it w/my camera phone...   one day the truth will come forth... one day, it's what we're all praying for.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on October 01, 2008, 04:48:09 PM
Saw this on the FP last night and there is just no way to convince me that this arrest had nothing to do with Natalee's case!

http://scaredmonkeys.com/category/natalee-holloway/page/144/

Natalee Holloway; Saturday June 11

According to Fox News scroll and the AP; a fourth suspect has been arrested in Aruba in conjunction with the disappearance of Natalee Holloway.  The investigators are not discussing it at this time. Thanks to the Riehl World for the initial information. Looks as though the AP is now confirming it as well. Also, thanks to Chris Lupo for the tip this morning!
It was unclear if the 6 a.m. arrest was related to the admission. The same team of officers who arrested five others in the case during the past week went to a home just outside Oranjestad, the capital, and came out with a handcuffed man who looked to be in his 20s.

Saturday morning, police refused to comment on the arrest or say if they had discovered anything overnight that solved the mystery of what happened to Natalee Holloway, 18, who was last seen in the early hours of May 30.



So who was arrested on June 11th?

Where there arrests on June 16th?

Steve arrested AM of June 17th.  Nothing from Freddy from 6/17 until 6/28 when we see a statement by Lorenzo as well.

And don't forget Guido Lorenzo Wever!

Lorenzo "questioned" early in the first week, house searched!

Jossy said Freddy was detained early...

If Jossy has a man on the inside this doesn't get us to Paulus as the 5th. JMO...LOL



the elder had one or two cards up his sleeve-they have been played and lost-will one of the cards (DirtyHand) sing?

the important others are the ones who supported the alibi

DirtyHand is the keystone in the arch of corruption (if he sings many teepees fall-including polis-his reach is long, the long arm)

he is the link to the children of the elders and the arawak nation......he holds the key to open unknown doors:

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 9:41 pm
One straight path
to the house of Rave,
while of gold bricks
the road is not paved,
answers mysterious lie within
magical letters which spell sin
XTC DNA

DirtyHand too has walked in this house of babylon, but not to satiate desire
(he holds the key-does he live there? or work there? he's worked for elders for a long time)

Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 12:23 am
Follow the notes
to the poison house
where the children of the babylonians
and the arawak nation
meet, under cover of delusion. (to trade: "play the game")
In the maze
the lions which play (the game!!!)
shall be found.
The gamblers also took note.
Tell the cowboys!

.....it was dangerous to tradeamong the arawaks

Hey Colombo, Mum, put on your thinking caps and walk down this Babylonian trail w/me for a bit...   

Say that the term "Babylon" means "law enforcement" (well, so says a fellow Jamaican friend). I used to think it meant gamblers, but now I think it means police because the term Babylon and Gamblers are used differently, just like the Elder and fallen judge...


The term "Babylonians" would mean police.

A "House of Babylon" could mean "a prison/jail/police station".

A "poisonous siren" would mean a "bad, dirty cop".

The "poison house" might mean the 'bad cops' home'or a corrupt police station.

The "halls of Babylon" could be inside of the police station or the legal system.

The "maze of Babylon" could be the interaction between police and corruption (lions and drugs oh my!) like handing over people and things to these thugs in order to just stay alive themselves....or for $payoffs.

The maze of Babylon is very difficult for the supposed guilty (Natalee), even if innocent.

Assume that Natalee is the "supposed guilty". GUILTY of WHAT? Natalee was innocent. INNOCENT of WHAT?  

GUILTY OF THIS --> $ Why did the girl owe money?

Natalee didn't owe any money. It was her FRIEND who owed money and Joran helped her win some of it back. Joran said he was helping her win her 'FATHERS' money back...Nah, I say they owed some $ to an Arawak for another reason and were trying to get it back as it was their last night on the island.

One of the two arrested security guards had some of the MB'ers electronic gadgets (or so it was said). There was also a girl who was said to have stayed in Nat's room a week prior with a guy friend who bought drugs from the security guard, and was threatened by the security guard to pay up. The guy left early, so the sec. guard threatened her and she immediately fled Aruba. When this girl saw the news about Natalee's disappearance, she recognized the security guard as the one who threatened her.

MAYBE THEY HAD ONE OF THE RIGHT PERPS IN THE VERY BEGINNING...BUT A BAD COP LET HIM GO... The same guard was involved in the battery of Jan VDS and also 'walked' in the small house of babylon not to satiate desire (like the other bad cops/prisoners did) but was locked up then let go. Natalee talked to someone for 30 min. earlier that night. Was this person interested in getting paid the rest of his $?  Was the person she spoke with one of the security guards who got arrested? Joran said he handed her to the security guard. Is this what he was paid to do? Act as a collections thug?

The Babylonians (aka cops) "still know the girl". Was Natalee arrested at this 'party' by a dirty cop and taken into custody at a small jail, put into a jail cell until she could come up with the $ as a favor to someone who thought she owed money? 

So what happened to Natalee during Simian's countdown on June 26th? Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:10 pm "The last hope rests on the shoulders of the cowboys. Ten days, two down, eight to go. Is this how long she was held before being let go or transfered to another jail in another country? The maze?

The last hope rests on the shoulders of the cowboys - meaning their 'heads'. The last hope rests on the cowboy's heads. Say wha??? Why their heads - what hope is on their heads - to put their thinking caps on????

The elder knows the passages in the palace too well. The Babylonians are afraid they might not be able to stop him.
Why were the Police afraid they wouldn't be able to stop the elder/attorney? Were the Police pinning this all on Joran and Paulus knew it?  "I have to PROTECT my son"?

A sacrifice will be made to spare the police.
Why are the police being spared?   What did the POLICE DO? They did something to make them be spared. SPARED FROM WHAT?
 
The Babylonians knew it was dangerous to trade among the Arawaks. A sacrifice will be made to spare the police; to spare the teepees. Singing cards have lost their power. Arawaks worried about being caught with dirty hand.

The cops knew it was dangerous to trade among the Arawaks. WHAT DID THEY TRADE? DID THEY TRADE NATALEE FOR THE DIRTY COP or TRADE HER FOR ONE OF THE GUARDS WHO WAS IN PRISON?

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:42 pm "Arawaks hold singing card from Babylon.  There is also a trio. One Babylonian. 2 Shivas. Arawaks can’t let babylonian Card sing because hand holding it dirty too. Many teepees fall. No Wampum. Cowboys eat Sacrifice. Arawaks eat sacrifice. Dirty hand stays hidden, but all are well-fed. Cowboys happy, but unrest in the halls of the palace. Babylon owes the Arawaks!"

So here we have that the Arawaks are holding the 'talking cop'. AND THERE IS ALSO THE TRIO (the J2K). The Arawaks can't let the cop (babylonian card) talk because the person-ARAWAK holding the cop is dirty also. So was DIRTYHAND WAS HOLDING THE DIRTY COP? Cops (Babylonians) owe the Arawaks. But why? Because they are holding the singing card from telling the truth and for that the cops are grateful? Did they trade Natalee for the Dirty Cop? Or did they trade Natalee for something else? Who was it dangerous for - them or Natalee?

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:12 pm  Cowboys must behave in Indian territory. The arawaks need pemmican, they have been without wampum, 1 Moon. The Arawaks keep the singing card. One singing Babylonian and two Hindu chanters are enough. His lordships presence guarantees a trio. The key to edens door did not exist. The refrain has already begun.

The key to Eden's door - the key to the jail cell - the key to letting her go free - it never existed. As if she was not there ever. The refrain (ending) has already begun.

You always find forbidden desires in the small houses of Babylon. Natalee was the forbidden desire. She was held in the small jail cell in Aruba. The girl knew this. Of course Natalee knew this - because she experienced it.  Natalee who now was not a virgin knew this. She was the forbidden desire.

Find DirtyHand! He too walked in this house of Babylon.But not to satiate desire. WAS DIRTYHAND ALSO IN A JAIL CELL AT THE SAME TIME OR AT A PREVIOUS TIME? WAS HE HELD EARLY ON IN THE CASE AND THIS IS THE 5TH WE DON'T KNOW ABOUT? Did he see Natalee in this prison? Was he there not to have his way with prisoners? Is that why he can break the alibi?

Is the key the codetalkers refer to the key to the jail cell? She was hidden in plain view -- locked up in a jail cell? Maybe taken down the maze into a jail cell in another country?

The card that was traded.  The cops put something in motion. And now they are unable to come forward and explain what they did. 

Who were the cops in charge in the very beginning? During Simians 'countdown'? Who came and left?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on October 01, 2008, 07:42:32 PM
elders of the game, not just of babylon (arawak, too) walk in older circles
Arawaks often go to play in the small houses of babylon with the offspring of the elders

the game pg 4:     http://www.ca11.uscourts.gov/opinions/ops/200214306.pdf

You always find forbidden desires in the small houses of Babylon
pg 16

same hand:   pg 18

poochie pg 25     ::MonkeyDance::

rules of the game pg 28

dirty hand pg 7
maze offers many hidden desires    pg 7

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:42 pm
Arawaks hold singing card from babylon
There is also a trio. One Babylonian. 2 Shivas.
Arawaks can’t let babylonian Card sing because hand holding it dirty too.

Arawak dirty hand-

Arawaks often go to play in the small houses of babylon with the offspring of the elders

sacrifice will be made to spare the polis, spare the teepees (marriages)

DirtyHand is the link

arawaks want the truth to come out as long as DirtyHand is not found-he is the link, the card played by PVDS





Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on October 01, 2008, 08:49:43 PM
Poochy:

"-but it was NOT a game"


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on October 01, 2008, 10:53:00 PM
from pg 7 excerpt:
http://www.ca11.uscourts.gov/opinions/ops/200214306.pdf
 "Pipkins entertained members of a municipal police force at his home on at least one occasion, where they engaged in sexual intercourse with his prostitutes. "

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:04 pm
Babalu opened a window looking onto Babylon with his 12:30 A.M. post

Babalú Says: June 27th, 2005 at 12:30 am
Concerned: No, I guess he is head of some local official corps. He is the guy that knows everything and that has been in the house of Babylonians NOT seeking pleasure for himself, so Shango says. So maybe he went to search for Natalee and he is the chief of Polis.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:01 pm
Arawaks often go to play in small houses of Babylon with the offspring of the Elders


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on October 01, 2008, 10:58:35 PM
re: DirtyHand

-his reach is long (the long arm)
-the keystone (as in cops) in the arch of corruption
-he knows who provided escort after the shivas left
-a sacrifice will be made to spare the polis, to spare the teepees
-arawaks want the truth to come out, as long as DirtyHand is not found
-fires are lit, but now the lamb is a goat (light the fires=turn up the heat)
-lamb ran bleating afraid to walk through the maze (difficult for the supposed guilty, even if innocent)
-maze offers hidden desires, deflowerings of forbidden fruits

the "Catch hand"


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on October 01, 2008, 11:43:05 PM
elders of the game, not just of babylon (arawak, too) walk in older circles
Arawaks often go to play in the small houses of babylon with the offspring of the elders

the game pg 4:     http://www.ca11.uscourts.gov/opinions/ops/200214306.pdf

You always find forbidden desires in the small houses of Babylon
pg 16

same hand:   pg 18

poochie pg 25     ::MonkeyDance::

rules of the game pg 28

dirty hand pg 7
maze offers many hidden desires    pg 7

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:42 pm
Arawaks hold singing card from babylon
There is also a trio. One Babylonian. 2 Shivas.
Arawaks can’t let babylonian Card sing because hand holding it dirty too.

Arawak dirty hand-

Arawaks often go to play in the small houses of babylon with the offspring of the elders

sacrifice will be made to spare the polis, spare the teepees (marriages)

DirtyHand is the link

arawaks want the truth to come out as long as DirtyHand is not found-he is the link, the card played by PVDS


I hear ya Colombo, and that the "offspring of the elders" are the kids of the Wevers, Croes and every 'founder' last name. Got that.

Still debating on what "small houses of Babylonians" means. I know the article you cite well, and what you suggest the 'small houses' are,  but because codetalkers put the word 'babylon' in there, I'm not sure now.

Codetalkers mention the word "Arawak" which we know are natives of Aruba so can we infer that the word "babylonian" means natives of Iraq and that the word "Sumerians" could be none other than the Mansur family tree? (Sumer was considered 'lower Babylon in ancient times)

Dirty Hand has bound the Arawak Nation with Babylonian Rope. Did the cowboys recently bind someone with Babylonian Rope in a war crime? (er, who switched places??)  :MonkeyCool:: 

Dirty Hand is a muslim's left hand. Googling this stuff brings back some very interesting hits.  DirtyHand holds the real key. ...So the story of Dirtyhand might get out - YIKES!  ::MonkeyCool::  ::MonkeyNoNo::  ::MonkeyShocked::

Dirtyhand was hiding on that island an everybody on Aruba knew. It was the cowboys and the rest of the world who are clueless. Once Dirtyhand was found out, he left Aruba and went 'back to babylon' broken, but anonymous. Dirtyhand went back to the Jail/Police/Iraq, broken but anonymous. To go back means you were there once before. I pick door #3.

#1) was Dirtyhand arrested and went back to jail, or
#2) did Dirtyhand go back to the police force and remains till this day anonymous or
#3) did Dirtyhand, who was sick and dead now alive and well and had a couple of clones, and has now returned to Iraq, broken but anonymous, and perhaps he had a few young sons?  ::MonkeyCool::
 
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 8:25 pm  The Arawaks want the truth to come out. As long as DirtyHand is not found. Aruba is preserved and Babylon will pay the price. The gods know that the blame lies on Babylon. The cowboys will go back to the fort without the loot.

Ms. Rice - We all know photos in newspapers are there to warn others. So that pic w/you and Beth at the church - who were you warning as in "we know what you did last summer"? So many kids/adults go missing daily in the world. What sort of connections did "the pottery" [need not break]  (jug/jar) have to request your presence in record time? NONE - The only connection that made you jump on the scene was to ensure that Dirtyhand remained anonymous and to stop the story of the babylonian rope tied around the wrong dude's neck won't get out.

(Colombo - hahaha page 25 -  ::MonkeyHaHa::  I should have picked a different nic for this board DANG IT! That nic comes up twice for me now, once as poochie, and another as some dude pooch - but mine is named after one of my foster dogs and I spell mine with a "Y", not an "ie")  ::MonkeyCool::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on October 02, 2008, 12:30:06 AM
Hey Colombo,

Our mutual friend 'CHUCKIE of the POT" has a message from me to you. Hope you accept it.

- Poochy


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on October 02, 2008, 08:32:13 AM
if Arawaks are the natives in Aruba, then who are the Indians?

would Arawak dirty hand mean Aruban???    ::MonkeyConfused::
remember-'spare the polis'.....the 'hand holding it dirty too'



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on October 02, 2008, 08:32:47 AM
Hey Colombo,

Our mutual friend 'CHUCKIE of the POT" has a message from me to you. Hope you accept it.

- Poochy

how do I do that?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on October 02, 2008, 08:57:48 AM
Poochy…from your post yesterday

Van der Straten and Jacobs were in from day 1.

Van der Straten was due to retire mid July to the end of July. He moved to Bonaire as Police Chief and finished there in July 2008. IIRC was to have returned to Aruba?…


From Joran’s book translation…Not sure when this was…the later on

Oh, another "juicy" thingy, when Joran was arrested he was also brought to Noord later on, another policestation. Abraham Jones was there, a woman who worked at the American customs, and the cousin of ..........Jossy, who was in one of those cells for involvement in a shooting....( we knew about the cousin and the shooting, but I didn`t knew that guy was in a cell near Joran....

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1097.0


From Simian…more on numbers…

 Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
The new hammer and block could not island hop. The Babylonians can’t keep the gates
shut forever. The days are 116 and they each have a number.
The Babylonians can’t use the whip on the boy. A elder is playing mute. If he doesn’t know, why did he heed the call?
The music man is singing. His song is not on the bill. One witness is not a witness.
Posted Jun 25, 9:16 PM


May 30th.2005 to September 23rd.=116 days

From the day Natalee disappeared until the 2005 Elections in Aruba…


One more on Acronyms…

XTC   X-Band Transmitter

COLOMBO...any info as to how or where this intel would be analysed. In Aruba? TIA




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on October 02, 2008, 09:54:35 AM
Does anyone have any idea what Merian meant by "quisquella"?

I am coming up empty through the translators!

Carrasquella is what jumps out at me...

TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on October 02, 2008, 10:25:56 AM
Shango and Simian can not be interpreted unless it is in context of what is being said.  I give up trying to get that point across.  Neither of them were posting just to see themselves write something.  They were trying to communicate among the posters that were there at the time.  Both knew certain ones of the posters and each other.  It's all about context.  :2brickwall:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on October 02, 2008, 10:29:08 AM
Why would Simian care if there was a doppleganger? 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on October 02, 2008, 10:38:42 AM
Why would Simian care if there was a doppleganger? 

Was he worried some-one knew who he was?

Didn't like what the doppleganger was posting?

Did Merian have one as well?

Maybe it was his ego...LOL

Your thoughts Lala's!

Just thinking out loud...Caps said Merian was political, and that Simian and Merian didn't like each other! ::MonkeyEek::

2 Merians...2 Simians! ::MonkeyEek::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on October 02, 2008, 10:46:58 AM
Does anyone have any idea what Merian meant by "quisquella"?

I am coming up empty through the translators!

Carrasquella is what jumps out at me...

TIA

Merian is trying to tell us that the woman who was said to have killed her husband - that case was not related to Natalee's case. quisquella seems to be an area in the Dominican Republic, so maybe that is where she/he is from.

Merian Ernest 7/15/0512:21pm
The Sabana Basora case is over. The girl confessed to chomping away at her fears. The first cut is always the deepest. The question is if she is a bifrons too. And not alone either. That quisquella slaying had nothing to do with anything with the yellow hammer.
 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on October 02, 2008, 10:54:48 AM
Does anyone have any idea what Merian meant by "quisquella"?

I am coming up empty through the translators!

Carrasquella is what jumps out at me...

TIA

Merian is trying to tell us that the woman who was said to have killed her husband - that case was not related to Natalee's case. quisquella seems to be an area in the Dominican Republic, so maybe that is where she/he is from.

Merian Ernest 7/15/0512:21pm
The Sabana Basora case is over. The girl confessed to chomping away at her fears. The first cut is always the deepest. The question is if she is a bifrons too. And not alone either. That quisquella slaying had nothing to do with anything with the yellow hammer.
 


Thanks Poochy...I have Jaime on my mind lately...LOL


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on October 02, 2008, 10:54:49 AM
Why would Simian care if there was a doppleganger? 

Was he worried some-one knew who he was?

Didn't like what the doppleganger was posting?

Did Merian have one as well?

Maybe it was his ego...LOL

Your thoughts Lala's!

Just thinking out loud...Caps said Merian was political, and that Simian and Merian didn't like each other! ::MonkeyEek::

2 Merians...2 Simians! ::MonkeyEek::
And all this time I thought Simian = Merian!   ::MonkeyConfused::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on October 02, 2008, 11:12:34 AM
Why would Simian care if there was a doppleganger? 

Was he worried some-one knew who he was?

Didn't like what the doppleganger was posting?

Did Merian have one as well?

Maybe it was his ego...LOL

Your thoughts Lala's!

Just thinking out loud...Caps said Merian was political, and that Simian and Merian didn't like each other! ::MonkeyEek::

2 Merians...2 Simians! ::MonkeyEek::
And all this time I thought Simian = Merian!   ::MonkeyConfused::

LOL...Poochy...I know one Simian is Merian! Well sometimes...I think!

I am just not sure if there is only one Real Simian anymore!

Still reading Merian....and translating some Simian!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on October 02, 2008, 11:36:17 AM
Why would Simian care if there was a doppleganger? 

Was he worried some-one knew who he was?

Didn't like what the doppleganger was posting?

Did Merian have one as well?

Maybe it was his ego...LOL

Your thoughts Lala's!

Just thinking out loud...Caps said Merian was political, and that Simian and Merian didn't like each other! ::MonkeyEek::

2 Merians...2 Simians! ::MonkeyEek::
And all this time I thought Simian = Merian!   ::MonkeyConfused::

LOL...Poochy...I know one Simian is Merian! Well sometimes...I think!

I am just not sure if there is only one Real Simian anymore!

Still reading Merian....and translating some Simian!

Mum - Do you have a good link for Shango's verses? I see some quotes on this thread I had no clue existed - and I don't think the complete version is on this site.  TIA -


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on October 02, 2008, 11:53:45 AM
Poochy...On page 13 of this thread Finngirl posted a lot of links and times to the FP posts down near the bottom of the page. I think the 6/30 ones are here as I couldn't find them from Finn's post.  I think the last one is around 2.50AM

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2005/06/29/msnbc/#comments



Also the McHarvey site....Here


http://www.mcharvey.com/shango/shango.html


I had them all saved, but seem to have misplaced them in my computer and am starting again and only have Simian's done!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on October 02, 2008, 01:23:17 PM
Merian and Simian posted from the same location...or email...lol or I think we should just toss the dice in the air and see what comes down.

Don't get distracted from what we know to be true...that is the problem...stick with what you know to be true at this point.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on October 02, 2008, 01:25:13 PM
Poochy...On page 13 of this thread Finngirl posted a lot of links and times to the FP posts down near the bottom of the page. I think the 6/30 ones are here as I couldn't find them from Finn's post.  I think the last one is around 2.50AM

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2005/06/29/msnbc/#comments



Also the McHarvey site....Here


http://www.mcharvey.com/shango/shango.html


I had them all saved, but seem to have misplaced them in my computer and am starting again and only have Simian's done!


Keep in mind that some of those sites are not accurate.  Take everything with a grain of salt...the Shango posts here at SM are more reliable.  McHarvey had several things incorrect, but at the time it wasn't known. 

Remember this word....CONTEXT.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on October 02, 2008, 01:27:18 PM
THE KEY:

Here's a list of what the code means, as interpreted by myself and other scaredmonkey bloggers; together we agreed enough to come up with this. This is all interpretation and speculation--these aren't necessarily my opinions; I'm just interpreting what I think Shango is saying. Others may see things differently, or dismiss this as a hoax. I think this is all too real.


*Mary=Natalee
*The Lamb=Joran
*Shivas=Kalpoe brothers
*Dirty Hand=police commissioner Van Der Straaten
*The Elder=Paulus Van Der Sloot
*His Lordship=unknown; maybe the Aruban Prime Minister
*Sumerians= maybe American government officials or Jossy Mansur, head of Diario
*Babylonians=European (Dutch) influence on Aruba
*Arawaks=native Arubans
*Arawak King=Prime Minister, or possibly the boat with the same name from the mainland that frequents Aruba.
*Olorum=supreme being
*46th Spirit=a reference to Bifrons, a spirit with the swollen features of a rotting corpse; makes people around him aware of their own mortality. Not sure what the connection is hereÖ
*Teepees=dwelling of innocent people/carefree island culture was first suggested, but I think it really means the islandís businesses: casinos, hotels, etc. that would be hurt worst by a drop in tourism
*Roll=reference to doing the drug ecstasy; doing X is called ërollingí
*Keystone=Dirty Hand=the center of corruption, which will expose this crime and other corruption
*The Lions=the truly dangerous people involved in underworld; Nataleeís real killers (or those responsible for her death)
*The Maze=location of rave parties/ seedy underworld of the island
*Sacrifice=person or people who will take the fall if truth isn't exposed (The Lamb and shivas)
*Cowboys=Americans searching for Natalee; her family, EquuSearch, FBI, etc.

*Indians= arubans
*Loot=Natalee; some think this means hard evidence of any kind
*Wampum= money, income to Aruba; the economy
*Occam's Razor=medieval principle that one should not make more assumptions than the minimum needed
*Doppleganger=an invisible shadow-self possessed by every human
*Eden=truth

*cowboy gods=the real power in the U.S.: FBI, senators, et cetera



Unless Shango himself provided this key it can not be used as fact...possible or probable suggestions is all you can assume here.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on October 02, 2008, 01:35:43 PM
Merian and Simian posted from the same location...or email...lol or I think we should just toss the dice in the air and see what comes down.

Don't get distracted from what we know to be true...that is the problem...stick with what you know to be true at this point.


Klaas has verified the Real Simian posts. (Assuming IP and email addy.)

Vms found Armin, and Armin also posted as Merian.

There were obvious dopplegangers on the FP.

That is all I think I can say is true!

Oops...I assumed on Klaas and the IP and email addy ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on October 02, 2008, 01:38:55 PM
Poochy...On page 13 of this thread Finngirl posted a lot of links and times to the FP posts down near the bottom of the page. I think the 6/30 ones are here as I couldn't find them from Finn's post.  I think the last one is around 2.50AM

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2005/06/29/msnbc/#comments



Also the McHarvey site....Here


http://www.mcharvey.com/shango/shango.html


I had them all saved, but seem to have misplaced them in my computer and am starting again and only have Simian's done!

Thanks!

I created a 'categorized codetalker' word doc, but now realize I am missing many verses.

(If you would like a copy of it let me know and I'll email it to Blonde. )



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on October 02, 2008, 01:52:39 PM
Poochy...On page 13 of this thread Finngirl posted a lot of links and times to the FP posts down near the bottom of the page. I think the 6/30 ones are here as I couldn't find them from Finn's post.  I think the last one is around 2.50AM

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2005/06/29/msnbc/#comments



Also the McHarvey site....Here


http://www.mcharvey.com/shango/shango.html


I had them all saved, but seem to have misplaced them in my computer and am starting again and only have Simian's done!

Thanks!

I created a 'categorized codetalker' word doc, but now realize I am missing many verses.

(If you would like a copy of it let me know and I'll email it to Blonde. )




Thanks Poochy...I will have to have to get Blonde my email addy!



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on October 02, 2008, 05:18:05 PM
Shango and Simian can not be interpreted unless it is in context of what is being said.  I give up trying to get that point across.  Neither of them were posting just to see themselves write something.  They were trying to communicate among the posters that were there at the time.  Both knew certain ones of the posters and each other.  It's all about context.  :2brickwall:


context:



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on October 02, 2008, 05:18:34 PM
Shango:



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on October 02, 2008, 05:20:43 PM
Poochy…from your post yesterday

Van der Straten and Jacobs were in from day 1.

Van der Straten was due to retire mid July to the end of July. He moved to Bonaire as Police Chief and finished there in July 2008. IIRC was to have returned to Aruba?…


From Joran’s book translation…Not sure when this was…the later on

Oh, another "juicy" thingy, when Joran was arrested he was also brought to Noord later on, another policestation. Abraham Jones was there, a woman who worked at the American customs, and the cousin of ..........Jossy, who was in one of those cells for involvement in a shooting....( we knew about the cousin and the shooting, but I didn`t knew that guy was in a cell near Joran....

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1097.0


From Simian…more on numbers…

 Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
The new hammer and block could not island hop. The Babylonians can’t keep the gates
shut forever. The days are 116 and they each have a number.
The Babylonians can’t use the whip on the boy. A elder is playing mute. If he doesn’t know, why did he heed the call?
The music man is singing. His song is not on the bill. One witness is not a witness.
Posted Jun 25, 9:16 PM


May 30th.2005 to September 23rd.=116 days

From the day Natalee disappeared until the 2005 Elections in Aruba…


One more on Acronyms…

XTC   X-Band Transmitter

COLOMBO...any info as to how or where this intel would be analysed. In Aruba? TIA





dunno-one thing I do know is that it must be very challenging and time consuming FEEDing the translations onto the tapes


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on October 02, 2008, 08:12:38 PM

dunno-one thing I do know is that it must be very challenging and time consuming FEEDing the translations onto the tapes

Good one Colombo! Now we're cranking!

One straight path to the house of Rave, 
   There is one straight line to Colombia

while of gold bricks the road is not paved,
   While of gold bricks = yellow brick road, the road is not paved = water.
       WHERE DO YOU WIND UP WHEN YOU FOLLOW THE YELLOW BRICK ROAD?
       AT EMERALD CITY  OF COURSE. Colombia is famous for its emeralds and emerald mines.


answers mysterious lie within magical letters which spell sin XTC DNA

   Could the answers be words made up by shuffling around these letters?
       XTC = methylenedioxymethamphetamine = MDMA
       DNA = Deoxyribonucleic acid


Ya know, "Babylon" (my door #3) once had streets paved of gold bricks -- but now they are not even paved.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on October 02, 2008, 08:34:12 PM
The Wyndham Aruba Resort, Spa & Casino is the perfect island destination, offering the charm of the Dutch Caribbean, a magnificent beach, glittering casino and a host of outdoor pleasures.

Relax in a room (small house) at the Wyndham Aruba Resort that is full of delightful touches like satellite television, floor-to-ceiling windows and a private balcony with a spectacular view. Outside the resort, enjoy sailing, windsurfing, scuba diving, deep-sea fishing and golf. Take a refreshing swim in the ocean or just drift in our gorgeous seaside pool. Or relax with a refreshing massage, body wrap, facial or manicure at their new Intermezzo Day Spa.

Gaming Info

Open from midday until the early hours, the Casablanca Casino offers the excitement of your favorite traditional and classic table games, in a glamorous, glittering Arabic atmosphere.

They have 317 state-of-the-art slot machines, all with comfortable seats for extended play. Also, for your enjoyment, they offer complimentary beverage and cocktail service. The Casablanca's slot machines include a variety of models and coin denominations (5 cents to $25) which appeal to every player, including electronic video games and the newest technology, multi-game touch screens. They also have reelers, crisscrosses, multiples, progressive/specialty machines, and video poker.

Their table games include nine blackjack tables, one of the most popular and simple games, two craps tables, three double-zero roulette tables, one baccarat table plus one mini-baccarat table, and three Caribbean stud poker tables, Let It Ride and three-card poker.

They also feature a special high limit exclusive area (ROLL), with an additional roulette table, three blackjack tables, one baccarat table and a Caribbean stud poker table.

commentary:
.......gold bricks indeed, but the road is not paved......try the crooked path


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on October 02, 2008, 08:39:27 PM
THE KEY:

Here's a list of what the code means, as interpreted by myself and other scaredmonkey bloggers; together we agreed enough to come up with this. This is all interpretation and speculation--these aren't necessarily my opinions; I'm just interpreting what I think Shango is saying. Others may see things differently, or dismiss this as a hoax. I think this is all too real.


*Mary=Natalee
*The Lamb=Joran
*Shivas=Kalpoe brothers
*Dirty Hand=police commissioner Van Der Straaten
*The Elder=Paulus Van Der Sloot
*His Lordship=unknown; maybe the Aruban Prime Minister
*Sumerians= maybe American government officials or Jossy Mansur, head of Diario
*Babylonians=European (Dutch) influence on Aruba
*Arawaks=native Arubans
*Arawak King=Prime Minister, or possibly the boat with the same name from the mainland that frequents Aruba.
*Olorum=supreme being
*46th Spirit=a reference to Bifrons, a spirit with the swollen features of a rotting corpse; makes people around him aware of their own mortality. Not sure what the connection is hereÖ
*Teepees=dwelling of innocent people/carefree island culture was first suggested, but I think it really means the islandís businesses: casinos, hotels, etc. that would be hurt worst by a drop in tourism
*Roll=reference to doing the drug ecstasy; doing X is called ërollingí
*Keystone=Dirty Hand=the center of corruption, which will expose this crime and other corruption
*The Lions=the truly dangerous people involved in underworld; Nataleeís real killers (or those responsible for her death)
*The Maze=location of rave parties/ seedy underworld of the island
*Sacrifice=person or people who will take the fall if truth isn't exposed (The Lamb and shivas)
*Cowboys=Americans searching for Natalee; her family, EquuSearch, FBI, etc.

*Indians= arubans
*Loot=Natalee; some think this means hard evidence of any kind
*Wampum= money, income to Aruba; the economy
*Occam's Razor=medieval principle that one should not make more assumptions than the minimum needed
*Doppleganger=an invisible shadow-self possessed by every human
*Eden=truth

*cowboy gods=the real power in the U.S.: FBI, senators, et cetera



Unless Shango himself provided this key it can not be used as fact...possible or probable suggestions is all you can assume here.



so Indians and Arawaks are the same?

we have forbidden fruit, sin, and a guy with a key, so, naturally Eden is.....truth? ::MonkeyConfused::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on October 02, 2008, 09:28:29 PM
The Wyndham Aruba Resort, Spa & Casino is the perfect island destination, offering the charm of the Dutch Caribbean, a magnificent beach, glittering casino and a host of outdoor pleasures.

Relax in a room (small house) at the Wyndham Aruba Resort that is full of delightful touches like satellite television, floor-to-ceiling windows and a private balcony with a spectacular view. Outside the resort, enjoy sailing, windsurfing, scuba diving, deep-sea fishing and golf. Take a refreshing swim in the ocean or just drift in our gorgeous seaside pool. Or relax with a refreshing massage, body wrap, facial or manicure at their new Intermezzo Day Spa.

Gaming Info

Open from midday until the early hours, the Casablanca Casino offers the excitement of your favorite traditional and classic table games, in a glamorous, glittering Arabic atmosphere.

They have 317 state-of-the-art slot machines, all with comfortable seats for extended play. Also, for your enjoyment, they offer complimentary beverage and cocktail service. The Casablanca's slot machines include a variety of models and coin denominations (5 cents to $25) which appeal to every player, including electronic video games and the newest technology, multi-game touch screens. They also have reelers, crisscrosses, multiples, progressive/specialty machines, and video poker.

Their table games include nine blackjack tables, one of the most popular and simple games, two craps tables, three double-zero roulette tables, one baccarat table plus one mini-baccarat table, and three Caribbean stud poker tables, Let It Ride and three-card poker.

They also feature a special high limit exclusive area (ROLL), with an additional roulette table, three blackjack tables, one baccarat table and a Caribbean stud poker table.

commentary:
.......gold bricks indeed, but the road is not paved......try the crooked path
.......the yellow brick road leads to the emerald city. It is not really straight, nor crooked, but spirals around, like a winding staircase ::MonkeyHaHa::

You think this is why/where she owed $?

The Wyndham was listed as #46 on a list of Aruba hotels on an Aruba tourism website back in 2005. I'm sure a few recall that page, but now I cannot find it. Is that the hotel J&D went to the following night?

Back ye fetid mongrel, as the 46th are you; delegate of the 7th level of inferno, not birthed, but spewed from the dark chasm of a nightmare!

Old treaties between the Babylonians and the Arawaks were maintained until the gods heard. Babylon now fears reprisals. the fires are lit. There will be 46 sacrifices. (THE HOTELS)

Are the children of the elders there, or did they flee to Babylon? DirtyHand knows, this is his Power. There will be 46 sacrifices.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on October 02, 2008, 09:39:39 PM
Colombo,

"... is freddy's purse tied to the black numbers///// texan, the answer is in the numbers 01 06 05
who are the other guests at that charade?"

Based on the above codetalker verse, "Freddy" wouldn't be Jorans bff but would be a guy by the name of 'Freddy Deeb' the professional gambler who won $1,000,000 in the UltimateBet Aruba Poker in what I think was 2005 (4th season). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freddy_Deeb
Kassem "Freddy" Deeb (born November 27, 1955[1] in Beirut, Lebanon) is a professional poker player who emigrated from Lebanon to the United States at the age of 19.
 
Now the winner might throw a bash to celebrate his winnings in a private room, right?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on October 02, 2008, 09:43:26 PM
The Wyndham Aruba Resort, Spa & Casino is the perfect island destination, offering the charm of the Dutch Caribbean, a magnificent beach, glittering casino and a host of outdoor pleasures.

Relax in a room (small house) at the Wyndham Aruba Resort that is full of delightful touches like satellite television, floor-to-ceiling windows and a private balcony with a spectacular view. Outside the resort, enjoy sailing, windsurfing, scuba diving, deep-sea fishing and golf. Take a refreshing swim in the ocean or just drift in our gorgeous seaside pool. Or relax with a refreshing massage, body wrap, facial or manicure at their new Intermezzo Day Spa.

Gaming Info

Open from midday until the early hours, the Casablanca Casino offers the excitement of your favorite traditional and classic table games, in a glamorous, glittering Arabic atmosphere.

They have 317 state-of-the-art slot machines, all with comfortable seats for extended play. Also, for your enjoyment, they offer complimentary beverage and cocktail service. The Casablanca's slot machines include a variety of models and coin denominations (5 cents to $25) which appeal to every player, including electronic video games and the newest technology, multi-game touch screens. They also have reelers, crisscrosses, multiples, progressive/specialty machines, and video poker.

Their table games include nine blackjack tables, one of the most popular and simple games, two craps tables, three double-zero roulette tables, one baccarat table plus one mini-baccarat table, and three Caribbean stud poker tables, Let It Ride and three-card poker.

They also feature a special high limit exclusive area (ROLL), with an additional roulette table, three blackjack tables, one baccarat table and a Caribbean stud poker table.

commentary:
.......gold bricks indeed, but the road is not paved......try the crooked path
.......the yellow brick road leads to the emerald city. It is not really straight, nor crooked, but spirals around, like a winding staircase ::MonkeyHaHa::

You think this is why/where she owed $?

The Wyndham was listed as #46 on a list of Aruba hotels on an Aruba tourism website back in 2005. I'm sure a few recall that page, but now I cannot find it. Is that the hotel J&D went to the following night?

Back ye fetid mongrel, as the 46th are you; delegate of the 7th level of inferno, not birthed, but spewed from the dark chasm of a nightmare!

Old treaties between the Babylonians and the Arawaks were maintained until the gods heard. Babylon now fears reprisals. the fires are lit. There will be 46 sacrifices. (THE HOTELS)

Are the children of the elders there, or did they flee to Babylon? DirtyHand knows, this is his Power. There will be 46 sacrifices.



key to the case.......

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:09 pm
Simian, who else plays in the orchestra? A Babylonian….   [DirtyHand]

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:58 pm
DirtyHand knows the Babylonians that provided escort after the 2 shivas left
 

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:01 pm
Arawaks often go to play in small houses of Babylon with the offspring of the Elders [the game]

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:53 pm
The Simain thinks that Babalú is clueless about who the Babylonians are. The Simian thinks that is really funny.
The Simian will make an exception and answer: The gamblers knew the girl.

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:03 pm
The alibi needs to be broken.The dogs have pouches on their feet. They are checking the dirty waters in Noord.
The Babylonians know what the girl did earlier in the week. Therein lies the motive

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:04 pm
Are the children of the elders there, or did they flee to Babylon?
DirtyHand knows, this is his Power
there will be 46 sacrifices

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:18 pm
If the Alibi is broken by DirtyHand the walls of Babylon will shake

Find DirtyHand! He too walked in this house of Babylon.
But not to satiate desire.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:37 pm
DirtyHand is not a child of Babylon (Arawak?)

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:52 pm
DirtyHand has walked through the maze
He knows of the forbidden fruit
and the gardeners

Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 12:23 am
Follow the notes
to the poison house (of babylon-he holds the real key)
where the children of the babylonians
and the arawak nation
meet (he is the link!), under cover of delusion. (dangerous to trade)
In the maze
the lions which play
shall be found.
The gamblers also took note. (poison note$?)
Tell the cowboys!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on October 02, 2008, 10:17:10 PM
Colombo,

"... is freddy's purse tied to the black numbers///// texan, the answer is in the numbers 01 06 05
who are the other guests at that charade?"

Based on the above codetalker verse, "Freddy" wouldn't be Jorans bff but would be a guy by the name of 'Freddy Deeb' the professional gambler who won $1,000,000 in the UltimateBet Aruba Poker in what I think was 2005 (4th season). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freddy_Deeb
Kassem "Freddy" Deeb (born November 27, 1955[1] in Beirut, Lebanon) is a professional poker player who emigrated from Lebanon to the United States at the age of 19.
 
Now the winner might throw a bash to celebrate his winnings in a private room, right?

Freddy "D" is also into H.O.R.S.E. Poker:  He won in 2007

http://www.horsepoker.net/

The checkmate is the same the tables might have turned. There are no donkeys or mules [ASSES HAHA] in chess only horses.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on October 02, 2008, 10:23:53 PM
Shango Says:June 26th, 2005 at 10:48 pm
Coverups begin with elders and the founders of the houses of Babylon
Not the minions
DirtyHand knows this (minion)

Seek ye DirtyHand and the Fetid Arawak King who wishes to blame the (young) babylonians for the behaviour of lowly minions (DirtyHand, PVDS).

He holds the key to the ONLY door which opens to the lions den    (eDEN)
Castigate not the Arawak Tribe for the sins of the Elders
Why have all forgotten DirtyHand, who has aided son of SlanderFoot?
He holds the key! (the house with the path)
There are many circles, but each has a center
The DirtyHand holds the key.
DirtyHand and SlanderFoot know the Lamb and the Shivas did not build Sandcastles
DirtyHand holds the key to the secrets of the SlanderFoot Clan
Babylon holds the answers



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on October 02, 2008, 10:47:23 PM
Shango Says:June 26th, 2005 at 10:48 pm
Coverups begin with elders and the founders of the houses of Babylon
Not the minions
DirtyHand knows this (minion)

Seek ye DirtyHand and the Fetid Arawak King who wishes to blame the (young) babylonians for the behaviour of lowly minions (DirtyHand, PVDS).

He holds the key to the ONLY door which opens to the lions den    (eDEN)
Castigate not the Arawak Tribe for the sins of the Elders
Why have all forgotten DirtyHand, who has aided son of SlanderFoot?
He holds the key! (the house with the path)
There are many circles, but each has a center
The DirtyHand holds the key.
DirtyHand and SlanderFoot know the Lamb and the Shivas did not build Sandcastles
DirtyHand holds the key to the secrets of the SlanderFoot Clan
Babylon holds the answers



Arawak = Native Aruba folks
Sumerians = Native Sumerians (lower 'Babylon'/Iraq)
Babylonians = Native Iraqi folks  right? (a father w/2 sons....tied Aruba w/babylonian rope like his imposter was tied)

So why does Babylonians mean dutch? Not getting it. Jamaica me crazy friend says Babylon = law, cops, etc. But was the codetalker a Jamaican? Don't think so....

I thought at one time it meant gamblers, but codetalkers differentiate between gamblers and babylonians. Right?

We know the obvious kids that fled Aruba. But we really don't know ALL THE KIDS who fled, do we. We don't know what
BABYLONIAN KIDS FLED...
 
So why codetalkers mention EDEN?  Old Testament (Eden, etc) has nothing to do w/New Testament (Mary who was a virgin, the innocent LAMB (Jesus) that was slain, etc...) unless s/he is pointing out a location on a map. Middle east map that is...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on October 02, 2008, 10:50:55 PM
Open from midday until the early hours, the Casablanca Casino offers the excitement of your favorite traditional and classic table games, in a glamorous, glittering Arabic atmosphere.

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:36 pm
All that the gamblers knew was written down. They knew the girl. She spent her nights at their tables.

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:53 pm
The Simain thinks that Babalú is clueless about who the Babylonians are. The Simian thinks that is really funny.
The Simian will make an exception and answer: The gamblers knew the girl.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on October 02, 2008, 10:50:57 PM
Shango Says:June 26th, 2005 at 10:48 pm
Coverups begin with elders and the founders of the houses of Babylon
Not the minions
DirtyHand knows this (minion)

Seek ye DirtyHand and the Fetid Arawak King who wishes to blame the (young) babylonians for the behaviour of lowly minions (DirtyHand, PVDS).

He holds the key to the ONLY door which opens to the lions den    (eDEN)
Castigate not the Arawak Tribe for the sins of the Elders
Why have all forgotten DirtyHand, who has aided son of SlanderFoot?
He holds the key! (the house with the path)
There are many circles, but each has a center
The DirtyHand holds the key.
DirtyHand and SlanderFoot know the Lamb and the Shivas did not build Sandcastles
DirtyHand holds the key to the secrets of the SlanderFoot Clan
Babylon holds the answers


Forgot to tell you Colombo, we have a mutual friend:

Chuckie @ Java+Weed

Now go figure that one out, then give them a shout cuz they got something for you from me!

Nighty night all....


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on October 02, 2008, 10:53:50 PM
Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:49 pm
The maze offers many hidden desires
deflowerings of forbidden fruits
DirtyHand knows (but is afraid to rave).
So does the (married) elder.



spell sin?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on October 02, 2008, 10:56:10 PM
Open from midday until the early hours, the Casablanca Casino offers the excitement of your favorite traditional and classic table games, in a glamorous, glittering Arabic atmosphere.

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:36 pm
All that the gamblers knew was written down. They knew the girl. She spent her nights at their tables.

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:53 pm
The Simain thinks that Babalú is clueless about who the Babylonians are. The Simian thinks that is really funny.
The Simian will make an exception and answer: The gamblers knew the girl.


Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:53 pm
The Simain thinks that Babalú is clueless about who the Babylonians are. The Simian thinks that is really funny.
The Simian will make an exception and answer: The gamblers knew the girl.

Babylonians = gamblers, but perhaps the gamblers that come from Babylon (IRAQ) right?

Remember, Aruba is a 'trampoline' island. Close to Colombia, Iraq's buddy in all things anti-American.

Condi Rice involvement early on... that should speak tomes to ya!

Who owned the 'pair-a-dice' boat - native aruba or foreigner - anybody know?
 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on October 03, 2008, 07:15:48 AM
Interesting reading in the archives...Up intil 6/11 on the FP the car was referred to as Joran's...fast forward to the RBN's of 6/13 and it belongs to the older Kalpoe brother?

Per Amy Kappel, whom Red featured a lot on the FP early, none of the Kalpoes family ever owned a car rental business!

Seems some-one was confused. ::MonkeyWink::

COLUMBO...Do you think Merian and Simian were the same person posting? TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on October 03, 2008, 10:07:56 AM

Carlos Severino Tromp Reply »
|Report Abuse |Judge it! |#7 Saturday Sep 27
The Hague, 27th of September 2008

Dear readers of Shango,

I, Carlos Severino Tromp, wish to communicate to you that in the middle of October coming, maybe for a week I will appear in a television program in Spain and talk by satellite to the Dutch Queen on the subject of human rights and general corruption in Aruba, in the public prosecuting agency there, and how Nathalee Holloway did not receive justice by the Aruba police system. The program will also be translated in English.

With kindest personal regards,

Carlos Severino Tromp

www.koninginnlwatismensenrechten.com
www.arubainjustice.com
www.onrecht.com

You Tube: carlos13tromp & tromp13carlos

If you still want to know more:
Google: Carlos Severino Tromp 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Rob on October 03, 2008, 02:44:14 PM
Interesting reading in the archives...Up intil 6/11 on the FP the car was referred to as Joran's...fast forward to the RBN's of 6/13 and it belongs to the older Kalpoe brother?

Per Amy Kappel, whom Red featured a lot on the FP early, none of the Kalpoes family ever owned a car rental business!

Seems some-one was confused. ::MonkeyWink::

COLUMBO...Do you think Merian and Simian were the same person posting? TIA

not COLUMBO, but it is a fact that Merian and Simian are the same person. FACT. I know this to be one hundred percent true.

And simian is Armin. Fact. Peroid.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on October 03, 2008, 04:09:18 PM
Interesting reading in the archives...Up intil 6/11 on the FP the car was referred to as Joran's...fast forward to the RBN's of 6/13 and it belongs to the older Kalpoe brother?

Per Amy Kappel, whom Red featured a lot on the FP early, none of the Kalpoes family ever owned a car rental business!

Seems some-one was confused. ::MonkeyWink::

COLUMBO...Do you think Merian and Simian were the same person posting? TIA

not COLUMBO, but it is a fact that Merian and Simian are the same person. FACT. I know this to be one hundred percent true.

And simian is Armin. Fact. Peroid.


LOL...Rob...I am not the one that needs convincing! ::MonkeyWink::

Just wondering what and how COLUMBO sees differently?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on October 03, 2008, 06:34:11 PM
Interesting reading in the archives...Up intil 6/11 on the FP the car was referred to as Joran's...fast forward to the RBN's of 6/13 and it belongs to the older Kalpoe brother?

Per Amy Kappel, whom Red featured a lot on the FP early, none of the Kalpoes family ever owned a car rental business!

Seems some-one was confused. ::MonkeyWink::

COLUMBO...Do you think Merian and Simian were the same person posting? TIA

not COLUMBO, but it is a fact that Merian and Simian are the same person. FACT. I know this to be one hundred percent true.

And simian is Armin. Fact. Peroid.


LOL...Rob...I am not the one that needs convincing! ::MonkeyWink::

Just wondering what and how COLUMBO sees differently?


to be honest I've not paid the others much attention......but if you tell me that it's true and that its based on a shared IP address or email address, I probably would need more convincing......so I assume that Rob has something more?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on October 03, 2008, 08:21:26 PM
THE KEY:

Here's a list of what the code means, as interpreted by myself and other scaredmonkey bloggers; together we agreed enough to come up with this. This is all interpretation and speculation--these aren't necessarily my opinions; I'm just interpreting what I think Shango is saying. Others may see things differently, or dismiss this as a hoax. I think this is all too real.


*Mary=Natalee
*The Lamb=Joran
*Shivas=Kalpoe brothers
*Dirty Hand=police commissioner Van Der Straaten
*The Elder=Paulus Van Der Sloot
*His Lordship=unknown; maybe the Aruban Prime Minister
*Sumerians= maybe American government officials or Jossy Mansur, head of Diario
*Babylonians=European (Dutch) influence on Aruba
*Arawaks=native Arubans
*Arawak King=Prime Minister, or possibly the boat with the same name from the mainland that frequents Aruba.
*Olorum=supreme being
*46th Spirit=a reference to Bifrons, a spirit with the swollen features of a rotting corpse; makes people around him aware of their own mortality. Not sure what the connection is hereÖ
*Teepees=dwelling of innocent people/carefree island culture was first suggested, but I think it really means the islandís businesses: casinos, hotels, etc. that would be hurt worst by a drop in tourism
*Roll=reference to doing the drug ecstasy; doing X is called ërollingí
*Keystone=Dirty Hand=the center of corruption, which will expose this crime and other corruption
*The Lions=the truly dangerous people involved in underworld; Nataleeís real killers (or those responsible for her death)
*The Maze=location of rave parties/ seedy underworld of the island
*Sacrifice=person or people who will take the fall if truth isn't exposed (The Lamb and shivas)
*Cowboys=Americans searching for Natalee; her family, EquuSearch, FBI, etc.

*Indians= arubans
*Loot=Natalee; some think this means hard evidence of any kind
*Wampum= money, income to Aruba; the economy
*Occam's Razor=medieval principle that one should not make more assumptions than the minimum needed
*Doppleganger=an invisible shadow-self possessed by every human
*Eden=truth

*cowboy gods=the real power in the U.S.: FBI, senators, et cetera



Unless Shango himself provided this key it can not be used as fact...possible or probable suggestions is all you can assume here.



so Indians and Arawaks are the same?

we have forbidden fruit, sin, and a guy with a key, so, naturally Eden is.....truth? ::MonkeyConfused::

I said not all translations and keys are correct.  Many words...many meanings. LOL


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on October 03, 2008, 08:28:11 PM
Interesting reading in the archives...Up intil 6/11 on the FP the car was referred to as Joran's...fast forward to the RBN's of 6/13 and it belongs to the older Kalpoe brother?

Per Amy Kappel, whom Red featured a lot on the FP early, none of the Kalpoes family ever owned a car rental business!

Seems some-one was confused. ::MonkeyWink::

COLUMBO...Do you think Merian and Simian were the same person posting? TIA

not COLUMBO, but it is a fact that Merian and Simian are the same person. FACT. I know this to be one hundred percent true.

And simian is Armin. Fact. Peroid.


LOL...Rob...I am not the one that needs convincing! ::MonkeyWink::

Just wondering what and how COLUMBO sees differently?


to be honest I've not paid the others much attention......but if you tell me that it's true and that its based on a shared IP address or email address, I probably would need more convincing......so I assume that Rob has something more?

Armin Solognier as Simian/Merian has been settled for some time in this thread.  We had some very astute monkeys that found this to be true...in fact...as I asked the other day....not even a confession would convince you...I meant not even if Armin admitted it would you be convinced?  There is no debate as to Simian's identity any longer with me...but there are others that don't believe.  Once Simian's identity was verified it was easy to see how his posts fit the known facts...made it much easier to move on.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on October 03, 2008, 08:29:14 PM
I would really like to know who Checkme is.   ::MonkeyWink::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on October 03, 2008, 08:42:56 PM
I would really like to know who Checkme is.   ::MonkeyWink::


ally is still searching......


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on October 03, 2008, 08:52:07 PM
Interesting reading in the archives...Up intil 6/11 on the FP the car was referred to as Joran's...fast forward to the RBN's of 6/13 and it belongs to the older Kalpoe brother?

Per Amy Kappel, whom Red featured a lot on the FP early, none of the Kalpoes family ever owned a car rental business!

Seems some-one was confused. ::MonkeyWink::

COLUMBO...Do you think Merian and Simian were the same person posting? TIA

not COLUMBO, but it is a fact that Merian and Simian are the same person. FACT. I know this to be one hundred percent true.

And simian is Armin. Fact. Peroid.


LOL...Rob...I am not the one that needs convincing! ::MonkeyWink::

Just wondering what and how COLUMBO sees differently?


to be honest I've not paid the others much attention......but if you tell me that it's true and that its based on a shared IP address or email address, I probably would need more convincing......so I assume that Rob has something more?

Armin Solognier as Simian/Merian has been settled for some time in this thread.  We had some very astute monkeys that found this to be true...in fact...as I asked the other day....not even a confession would convince you...I meant not even if Armin admitted it would you be convinced?  There is no debate as to Simian's identity any longer with me...but there are others that don't believe.  Once Simian's identity was verified it was easy to see how his posts fit the known facts...made it much easier to move on.


and my response was to the effect that you were able to quote me in posts that you made


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: finngirl on October 04, 2008, 01:53:48 AM

Armin Solognier as Simian/Merian has been settled for some time in this thread.  We had some very astute monkeys that found this to be true...in fact...as I asked the other day....not even a confession would convince you...I meant not even if Armin admitted it would you be convinced?  There is no debate as to Simian's identity any longer with me...but there are others that don't believe.  Once Simian's identity was verified it was easy to see how his posts fit the known facts...made it much easier to move on.

re the "latest" verification:
was the motivation/agenda shared as well?

and what happened to the Gabe/Jairo angle?



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on October 04, 2008, 09:37:59 AM
Shango and Simian can not be interpreted unless it is in context of what is being said.  I give up trying to get that point across.  Neither of them were posting just to see themselves write something.  They were trying to communicate among the posters that were there at the time.  Both knew certain ones of the posters and each other.  It's all about context.  :2brickwall:



Yes, Lala's - context is everything.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on October 04, 2008, 09:40:20 AM
Colombo
I have given up trying to understand you.   ::MonkeyConfused:: ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on October 04, 2008, 09:42:33 AM
Interesting reading in the archives...Up intil 6/11 on the FP the car was referred to as Joran's...fast forward to the RBN's of 6/13 and it belongs to the older Kalpoe brother?

Per Amy Kappel, whom Red featured a lot on the FP early, none of the Kalpoes family ever owned a car rental business!

Seems some-one was confused. ::MonkeyWink::

COLUMBO...Do you think Merian and Simian were the same person posting? TIA

not COLUMBO, but it is a fact that Merian and Simian are the same person. FACT. I know this to be one hundred percent true.

And simian is Armin. Fact. Peroid.


LOL...Rob...I am not the one that needs convincing! ::MonkeyWink::

Just wondering what and how COLUMBO sees differently?


to be honest I've not paid the others much attention......but if you tell me that it's true and that its based on a shared IP address or email address, I probably would need more convincing......so I assume that Rob has something more?

Armin Solognier as Simian/Merian has been settled for some time in this thread.  We had some very astute monkeys that found this to be true...in fact...as I asked the other day....not even a confession would convince you...I meant not even if Armin admitted it would you be convinced?  There is no debate as to Simian's identity any longer with me...but there are others that don't believe.  Once Simian's identity was verified it was easy to see how his posts fit the known facts...made it much easier to move on.




Simian = Armin Solognier


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on October 04, 2008, 09:44:40 AM
I would really like to know who Checkme is.   ::MonkeyWink::


ally is still searching......



I have wondered if allyinmiami is Checkme.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on October 04, 2008, 09:48:36 AM

Armin Solognier as Simian/Merian has been settled for some time in this thread.  We had some very astute monkeys that found this to be true...in fact...as I asked the other day....not even a confession would convince you...I meant not even if Armin admitted it would you be convinced?  There is no debate as to Simian's identity any longer with me...but there are others that don't believe.  Once Simian's identity was verified it was easy to see how his posts fit the known facts...made it much easier to move on.

re the "latest" verification:
was the motivation/agenda shared as well?

and what happened to the Gabe/Jairo angle?



I didn't say anything about Shango...just Simian.   The Gabe angle was not mine.  I just follow the clues where they lead me from day to day.  Personally, I don't doubt that Gabe knew something...he was a Universal Air employee.  Whether he was Shango I highly doubt given what I now know as compared to what was known in the beginning. I have always said that both Simian and Shango had multiple personalities of sorts.  That means several people helped with the postings. Which could include all our favorite people.  ::MonkeyCool::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on October 04, 2008, 09:51:04 AM
I would really like to know who Checkme is.   ::MonkeyWink::


ally is still searching......



I have wondered if allyinmiami is Checkme.

Nope...not Checkme. Ally was not on Aruba...but she lived in Miami. ::MonkeyCool::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on October 04, 2008, 09:57:56 AM
I would really like to know who Checkme is.   ::MonkeyWink::


ally is still searching......



 ::MonkeyCool::



I have wondered if allyinmiami is Checkme.

Nope...not Checkme. Ally was not on Aruba...but she lived in Miami. ::MonkeyCool::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on October 04, 2008, 01:06:31 PM
Checkme…

Some posts from RWV…last one from the FP

Not Dutch…MO

Search on the 6th...Maybe IFA?


“I used to make models and knew a lot about military aircraft and their toys.” Male?

“There was a beach tennis tournament yesterday evening I had to attend to between the time of the blog outage”…..attend to…not attend


Dan,
The cops are now searching Joran's house...


Posted by: Checkme | Wednesday, June 15, 2005 at 12:36 PM


The house is close to a elementary school and right now the kids need to be picked up by their parents... nobody can get close to area of the school/house.

Posted by: Checkme | Wednesday, June 15, 2005 at 12:52 PM


The house is surrounded, school children are being picked up by their parents...

Posted by: Checkme | Wednesday, June 15, 2005 at 01:07 PM

 
Mrs Karin Jansen is leaving the house right now...
Posted by: Checkme | Wednesday, June 15, 2005 at 01:08 PM


They have the FBI agents and the dogs in the house
Posted by: Checkme | Wednesday, June 15, 2005 at 01:14 PM


There is one German shepherd used. Search is over.
Posted by: Checkme | Wednesday, June 15, 2005 at 01:20 PM


But the dog is Dutch, not FBI.
Posted by: Checkme | Wednesday, June 15, 2005 at 01:20 PM


they are digging in concrete at the house
Posted by: Checkme | Wednesday, June 15, 2005 at 01:21 PM


At this moment the police is searching the house of Joran
Posted by: Checkme | Wednesday, June 15, 2005 at 12:33 PM


I agree with Julia Renfro, editor in chief for Aruba today newpaper, Dutch are a minority in Aruba who are looked at very critically. Their presence is tolorated and respected up to a certain point. If any member of them misbehaves he/she will be hung out to dry, together with many other Dutch. Meddling of Holland in this case (as in other cases) will not be tolerated. Aruba is on it's own here. They are getting support, but on their call. Most Dutch here know each other, especially if they work in the same branch of society. But this will never influence any judicial process. There is too much at stake here. We do have a split between the government and the judicial system. Thank God.
Posted by: Checkme | Wednesday, June 15, 2005 at 12:46 PM


Could there be a family link between Bush and the parents? That is a rumor I have heard.
Posted by: Checkme | Wednesday, June 15, 2005 at 01:24 PM


Bon dia Dan,
No you did not thank me for the helicopter spot Saturday but there is so much flying over your head these days I am surprised at all you catched my words. But now I know what the strange protrusion from the right bottom part of the cockpit was. I hit myself on the forehead because I used to make models and knew a lot about military aircraft and their toys. Oh well, age... The ship at Malmok was it's platform.

Joran's family is extremely distraught as you can imagine. I have always loved Aruba for it's multi cultural society. Even to see how under extreme stress we can still see each others humanity gives me hope. On this island the distances are very short so you cannot remain distant and judge coldly. I think even all the reporters from the US here are experiencing this. Maybe that's whay CNN switched reporters? Was he getting to closely involved with the island and not reporting "coldly" anymore? His last report on the home coming queen must have done it.
Posted by: Checkme | Thursday, June 16, 2005 at 08:26 AM


Dan,
Btw, a Dutch Marine suggested to me, during a search on the 6th, that "better technology" may be used to find her. I felt he knew IR was going to be used soon. 3 days later the ship with heli was spotted in aruba waters. That means it was sent to AUA 3 to 5 days after NH went missing. Just for the timeline.

Posted by: Checkme | Thursday, June 16, 2005 at 08:35 AM
 

Checkme on June 24th, 2005 10:38 am
Hi Lucy,
You read me right again. I hope you have read my posts after also.
Good thing there was a beach tennis tournament yesterday evening I had to attend to between the time of the blog outage otherwise i would have gone crazy. Curious how we get so addicted to information sharing. Nothing ever happens on this island. I guess now I am catching up on the thirst I have had all along.


http://scaredmonkeys.com/2005/06/23/evening-breaking-news-natalee-holloway/#comments






Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: finngirl on October 04, 2008, 04:29:08 PM

it's been implied that Armin "confessed"

my question, again, is:
was his motive/agenda shared?







Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on October 04, 2008, 06:25:18 PM

it's been implied that Armin "confessed"

my question, again, is:
was his motive/agenda shared?








Who's agenda?  Simian's?  I am confused a little. Help me out. Thanks.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on October 04, 2008, 08:33:10 PM
Simian:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSiIwOBq65Q





Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on October 04, 2008, 08:37:26 PM

it's been implied that Armin "confessed"

my question, again, is:
was his motive/agenda shared?








Who's agenda?  Simian's?  I am confused a little. Help me out. Thanks.



lemme see if I can lend a hand:


"Armin Solognier as Simian/Merian has been settled for some time in this thread.  We had some very astute monkeys that found this to be true...in fact...as I asked the other day....not even a confession would convince you...I meant not even if Armin admitted it would you be convinced?  There is no debate as to Simian's identity any longer with me...but there are others that don't believe.  Once Simian's identity was verified it was easy to see how his posts fit the known facts...made it much easier to move on."




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: finngirl on October 04, 2008, 11:41:54 PM
it's been implied that Armin "confessed"

my question, again, is:
was his motive/agenda shared?

Who's agenda?  Simian's?  I am confused a little. Help me out. Thanks.

among other things, simian said:

a sexual motive did not figure into
Natalee's disappearance

ALE was competent/seeking truthful resolution

to successfully solve the case,
it would be necessary to ID the cool/crazy guy
and/or the 5th suspect w/ a false alibi

so ... did Armin's "admission"
include any elaboration as to why
he, as simian, chose to share the info above?

especially: why he was coy/not forthcoming
re the identity/identities of the cool/crazy guy and/or 5th suspect
while he was posting?

since that was a major component of his posts?

or did Armin's confimation simply consist of:
I posted using the nic simian.
period.
end of story.

?



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on October 05, 2008, 07:59:24 AM
it's been implied that Armin "confessed"

my question, again, is:
was his motive/agenda shared?

Who's agenda?  Simian's?  I am confused a little. Help me out. Thanks.

among other things, simian said:

a sexual motive did not figure into
Natalee's disappearance

ALE was competent/seeking truthful resolution

to successfully solve the case,
it would be necessary to ID the cool/crazy guy
and/or the 5th suspect w/ a false alibi

so ... did Armin's "admission"
include any elaboration as to why
he, as simian, chose to share the info above?

especially: why he was coy/not forthcoming
re the identity/identities of the cool/crazy guy and/or 5th suspect
while he was posting?

since that was a major component of his posts?

or did Armin's confirmation simply consist of:
I posted using the nic simian.
period.
end of story.

?





Has anyone tried to connect with him to get a clarification of things like the 5th and the "cool and crazy" guy?  I wonder if he would even communicate with us because of liability issues or fear of retaliation.  I would love to converse with him here in the S&S thread.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on October 05, 2008, 11:00:41 AM
Simian made for a good distraction...he wanted to be part of things.  He came on SM trying to see what was being said about his own relative...Steve. When he first arrived he was just reading to see what everyone was talking about...that is all he intended at first.  Read his first few posts.  He is discussing what the other FP pagers are talking about about...the sex slavery angle and such.  Those posts are very benign in lending information of any kind.  It was not until his own relative became entangled in this mess that he began to speak up.  Simian's angry tone developed as soon as Steve Croes made that stupid confession that he saw Deepak...etc...etc.  For reasons I still do not understand, Steve introduced himself into the mess of the century. It was an agenda for Simian the entire time...he wanted the focus shifted to our 5th suspect...the responsible person in all this. The "other" person...I think it was just as much a distraction as some of Shango's crap.  The personas of Simian and Shango were on the FP posting for all the same reasons we are here posting. 

Think about this.  If one of us learns a juicy tidbit concerning this case and we make a post to that effect all of us jump right on it trying to decipher what the hidden meaning is and how it may impact this case.  There was more than one person that posted as Simian.  Anyone can go to the FP make a post and if the moderator okays it...it goes through.  Only when you look at the details can you tell they are not all the same person...or are they?  The only thing you have to go on are email addresses and IP locations.  Neither of which are completely accurate in accessing locations unless you happen to be the FBI or some other agency with that power...such as CIA...NSA...well, you get my drift.

None of us have any way of knowing if Simian or Shango did not email or IM another person information to post. For example:  If the person that is the real Shango is talking to a friend by email and they want information they have to be told to others, they know are reading a particular forum, they can email the information to this other person(s) and in turn they can post the information from their computer or to the FP using the same email or a different one and still have the information posted. IP's can be hidden and emails can be made up on the spot.  Moderators on the FP don't go around checking email addresses...that only happens when you register and on the FP of SM you do not have to register and provide a password, as far as I know, to post a comment.  The anonymity is guaranteed until someone gets your IP or email addy and begins to search and dig and check things out.

All of the candidates for Simian and Shango had the capability to post all over the place.  I know this because I have done it myself and I people have helped me do it.  I have experimented in many ways trying to determine these things.  I have been able to post on various blogs as another name...from another location...using a person's email that is not mine...and I have asked other people to post things for me with my information.  It can be done...it can be done sitting right next to another person and posting as two different people.  Until the person you suspect confesses that was them (given you trust their word enough to believe them) you have no way of knowing who is whom. 

The most important thing to remember about our Simian and Shango is that neither one of them ever said that Joran or the Kalpoes were responsible for Natalee's disappearance...that tells more than anything about who they are and what their agendas were.  Shango calls him a scapegoat and says he was not there in the end...Kalpoes didn't know what happened after they left. They want the 5th suspect and Dirty Hand to be responsible and not the 3 people last seen with Natalee.

 The bottom line is that it does not matter now...at least not until they find Natalee and that is not going to happen without someone coming forward with key information.  It now appears that even that is not enough any longer...ask yourself this...what if this new witness had come forward in the very beginning...the very first night would Natalee have been found and would anyone be in jail now?  I fully understand the reasons it did not happen.  ALE wasn't listening by their own choosing and the fear factor is so great on Aruba if you are not Dutch.  It is hard to clean up a mess when you are the one that made the mess and don't want it cleaned up in the first place.


All of the above is only my opinion...which makes no difference anyway.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on October 05, 2008, 03:16:34 PM
Nice post, Lala's and a great explanation for those who don't understand how the IPs, email addresses, and open forum posting works.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on October 05, 2008, 07:02:39 PM
Sorry to interrupt... but today I was stuck on Shango's "Even Flying Birds Sing".

While "Bird" could be Frances Ellen Byrd or Steve Croes (crow), I wasn't sure what Shango meant by 'flying bird'.

Then it dawned on me that Loon is also a type of bird - Vladir van Loon/Loen.  And when Joran mentioned the banana boat...

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 11:12 pm
Even Flying Birds Sing. If the key does not arrive tomorrow, that door to Eden will remain closed I must feed the messengers.

I couldn't bring the quote over, but see Klass' post about van Loon here:
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1952.1560

On this page Texasmom quoted from Beth's book:

Loving Natalee page 84-85
snips
The tips are coming in steadily all day...One tip in particular keeps resurfacing---that Jeep...One caller says the driver is known as Theodore.  Another says his name is Vader.  A well-known drug runner on the island drives a bright yellow Jeep pulling a trailer with a small rubber boat on the back...In the little dinghy is an old oil barrrel.  This is the most difficult tip for me to listen to so far, as the callers are saying that the barrel in the boat on the back of this Jeep is where Natalee was put so she could be taken out to sea and dumped...

On the way to the print shop to have the new "KIDNAPPED" posters printed Beth spots the yellow Jeep with a small boat on a trailer  and a barrel in the dinghy.  It's parked at a pizza restaurant.  The cab driver confirms that "It's Vader's Jeep."  He very bad.  Very bad.....Beth has the driver pull up to the Jeep and rolls down her window.

Loving Natalee Page 86
"Before I can speak, he sees me and offers, "I'm sorry about Natalee."
   That's weird, and his statement takes me aback.  I haven't even introduced myself.  So I ask him if he knows where she is and explain that there are reports that she has been seen in his vehicle.
   He replies, "What about the gray Honda?  I thought they were looking into that."  And before I can answer he volunteers, "The Coast Guard has already searched my boat."


(http://i474.photobucket.com/albums/rr101/PoochyPics/vadirvanloon2.jpg)
(http://i474.photobucket.com/albums/rr101/PoochyPics/vadirvehicle.jpg)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on October 05, 2008, 08:06:19 PM
Sorry to interrupt... but today I was stuck on Shango's "Even Flying Birds Sing".

While "Bird" could be Frances Ellen Byrd or Steve Croes (crow), I wasn't sure what Shango meant by 'flying bird'.

Then it dawned on me that Loon is also a type of bird - Vladir van Loon/Loen.  And when Joran mentioned the banana boat...

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 11:12 pm
Even Flying Birds Sing. If the key does not arrive tomorrow, that door to Eden will remain closed I must feed the messengers.

I couldn't bring the quote over, but see Klass' post about van Loon here:
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1952.1560

On this page Texasmom quoted from Beth's book:

Loving Natalee page 84-85
snips
The tips are coming in steadily all day...One tip in particular keeps resurfacing---that Jeep...One caller says the driver is known as Theodore.  Another says his name is Vader.  A well-known drug runner on the island drives a bright yellow Jeep pulling a trailer with a small rubber boat on the back...In the little dinghy is an old oil barrrel.  This is the most difficult tip for me to listen to so far, as the callers are saying that the barrel in the boat on the back of this Jeep is where Natalee was put so she could be taken out to sea and dumped...

On the way to the print shop to have the new "KIDNAPPED" posters printed Beth spots the yellow Jeep with a small boat on a trailer  and a barrel in the dinghy.  It's parked at a pizza restaurant.  The cab driver confirms that "It's Vader's Jeep."  He very bad.  Very bad.....Beth has the driver pull up to the Jeep and rolls down her window.

Loving Natalee Page 86
"Before I can speak, he sees me and offers, "I'm sorry about Natalee."
   That's weird, and his statement takes me aback.  I haven't even introduced myself.  So I ask him if he knows where she is and explain that there are reports that she has been seen in his vehicle.
   He replies, "What about the gray Honda?  I thought they were looking into that."  And before I can answer he volunteers, "The Coast Guard has already searched my boat."


(http://i474.photobucket.com/albums/rr101/PoochyPics/vadirvanloon2.jpg)
(http://i474.photobucket.com/albums/rr101/PoochyPics/vadirvehicle.jpg)

Yes, that is Vadir van Loon.  He's a character for sure.  Just a reminder...Shango began posting in June...all the characters in the game were already in play...don't think Shango knew anything about Natalee's best friend FEB, but then again what would I know.  That is only my opinion.  One thing I will say is Beth felt the need to mention Loon for some reason...maybe because she too was led astray by those that had the opportunity.  Bondia was all to eager to give Loon up to us here...so I am thinking he's another red herring.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on October 05, 2008, 08:43:04 PM
Sorry to interrupt... but today I was stuck on Shango's "Even Flying Birds Sing".

While "Bird" could be Frances Ellen Byrd or Steve Croes (crow), I wasn't sure what Shango meant by 'flying bird'.

Then it dawned on me that Loon is also a type of bird - Vladir van Loon/Loen.  And when Joran mentioned the banana boat...

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 11:12 pm
Even Flying Birds Sing. If the key does not arrive tomorrow, that door to Eden will remain closed I must feed the messengers.

I couldn't bring the quote over, but see Klass' post about van Loon here:
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1952.1560

On this page Texasmom quoted from Beth's book:

Loving Natalee page 84-85
snips
The tips are coming in steadily all day...One tip in particular keeps resurfacing---that Jeep...One caller says the driver is known as Theodore.  Another says his name is Vader.  A well-known drug runner on the island drives a bright yellow Jeep pulling a trailer with a small rubber boat on the back...In the little dinghy is an old oil barrrel.  This is the most difficult tip for me to listen to so far, as the callers are saying that the barrel in the boat on the back of this Jeep is where Natalee was put so she could be taken out to sea and dumped...

On the way to the print shop to have the new "KIDNAPPED" posters printed Beth spots the yellow Jeep with a small boat on a trailer  and a barrel in the dinghy.  It's parked at a pizza restaurant.  The cab driver confirms that "It's Vader's Jeep."  He very bad.  Very bad.....Beth has the driver pull up to the Jeep and rolls down her window.

Loving Natalee Page 86
"Before I can speak, he sees me and offers, "I'm sorry about Natalee."
   That's weird, and his statement takes me aback.  I haven't even introduced myself.  So I ask him if he knows where she is and explain that there are reports that she has been seen in his vehicle.
   He replies, "What about the gray Honda?  I thought they were looking into that."  And before I can answer he volunteers, "The Coast Guard has already searched my boat."


(http://i474.photobucket.com/albums/rr101/PoochyPics/vadirvanloon2.jpg)
(http://i474.photobucket.com/albums/rr101/PoochyPics/vadirvehicle.jpg)

Yes, that is Vadir van Loon.  He's a character for sure.  Just a reminder...Shango began posting in June...all the characters in the game were already in play...don't think Shango knew anything about Natalee's best friend FEB, but then again what would I know.  That is only my opinion.  One thing I will say is Beth felt the need to mention Loon for some reason...maybe because she too was led astray by those that had the opportunity.  Bondia was all to eager to give Loon up to us here...so I am thinking he's another red herring.

Then years later Joran tells Patrick about a guy (Daury) who helped him with the 'body' who had a banana boat. That's why I thought of this guy cuz he got the "rubber boat".

Anybody know if this one is still on the island or 'fled' off of it mid-June '05?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on October 05, 2008, 10:09:31 PM
Borrowing this from Johan who just posted pics of Lorenzo's house via google earth on the Natalee main thread here:
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=3437.60

See the vertical 'path' in the upper top right side of this pic:

(http://i474.photobucket.com/albums/rr101/PoochyPics/Lorenzo-1.jpg)

Is this pic that same 'straight path' as the road in the above pic leading out from Lorenzo's house to the ocean (and then from the ocean (which is not paved as it is water), continuing in a straight path directly to Santa Marta, Colombia either by plane, seaplane, helicoptor or boat)?

(http://i474.photobucket.com/albums/rr101/PoochyPics/lorenzo_road-1.jpg)

Merian Ernest   7/13/05 5:51 pm  Find Aruba. Find the Haystack. Find Santa Marta (COLOMBIA).  Trace with your finger what the Antenna has spoken about. Unleash the dogs. Inch by inch…grid by grid.

Anybody know where this upaved path leads to? Lorenzo has a private club on his property. It was a small party and the host did not leave, or did he....!

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 8:11 pm
One straight path to the house of Rave, while of gold bricks the road is not paved, answers mysterious lie within magical letters which spell sin XTC DNA .

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 9:46 pm
Shango said the key to the Hague did not exist. That door to eden remains closed until the house with the path But not of gold is entered

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:03 pm
The party-goers said the 5th one was with them. He was the host. How could he have left?

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:18 pm
Shock means well. He understands the Babylonians, but they don’t hold the hammer nor the block. The alibi needs to be broken. The party-goers need to be pressured. They have seen from the corners of their eyes. The house was dusted.

The only house I recall being 'dusted' was Lorenzo's. The Sloot main house was not dusted. Joran's apartment (which is NOT a house) was dusted, or checked out, but the 'main Sloot house' was not. 

Anybody know of a house that was dusted other than Lorenzo's?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on October 05, 2008, 10:15:51 PM
Joran stayed behind

who switched places?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: finngirl on October 06, 2008, 03:05:21 AM
Lala's:

I'm glad that you verified what I told you last year
re how the posting system works on the FP
and other blogs which don't require registration:
how the system works/doesn't work
and how it can be manipulated

re IPs: the use of proxies must be considered
along w/ the accuracy of retrieval ...
since systems are what they are: not foolproof

interesting glitch that I've encountered (twice):
a previous poster's nic/email addy appearing
in the boxes I was required to fill in when posting =
my post appeared w/ their nic

I coulda continued posting w/ their info
for as long as I cared to

 :wink:

when I read your recent post re Armin-as-simian:
"I suppose even a confession wouldn't convince you" ...
I took that to mean that Armin had confessed/admitted
and couldn't figure out how I'd missed that little gem!

now I understand that Armin-as-simian
was not a confession/an admission
but rather a product of deductive reasoning

not that there's anything wrong w/ that, LOL

(altho I remain among the unconvinced)



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on October 06, 2008, 04:48:57 AM
Finn...not Lala's, but wanted to add my 2 cents worth...

I came to my conlusions regarding Simian and Merian from the discussions starting on page 25 of the previous thread. Most of the discussions were posted by vms, Rob and Lala’s.

When I asked for clarification, vms explained how she got to Armin as Merian. I went to RWV and clicked on the link which gave his email addy. You can no longer do this.

From what I have been told, Merian posted in the Forum, and would have needed to register and submit an email addy. For some-one else to post as Merian they would have needed his password and for RWV and the FP his email addy. I understand that glitches can occur, but it appears that the same info would have to show up repeatedly. Same with a proxy IP…the poster would have to always use the same proxy IP as Simian for Klaas to have confirmed the Fake and Real Simian posts. As I have no clue about this, I would like to know if this is possible.

Rob made a connection to Armin to one of Simian’s posts. I have no idea if Rob, has followed this up further. I was hoping he would pop back in and give his own explanation to his earlier post that Armin is Simian.

Anyone with Info on Proxy IPs to share, it would be greatly appreciated! ::MonkeyWink::






Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: finngirl on October 06, 2008, 05:51:10 AM

Mum:

ah ha, thanks for the info re merian's addy ...
never was clear on how that was determined

had forgotten/didn't think about merian
posting in the forum

were any other codetalkers registered?

pressed for time at this ungodly hour
but real quickly ...

re the glitch I came across:
since another poster's nic/addy
was "provided" to me/it appeared on my screen
I would need only to jot it down/memorize it
to use it/type it in the required boxes next time

the info wouldn't need to keep re-appearing
in order for me to keep using it ...
I would "own" it once I had seen it

re IP proxies, I was told this:
depending on the software/? being used
the IPs will constantly/randomly rotate w/ each log-on
and never repeat, or

you will be given a "set" of IPs
and they will rotate in sequence each time you log on
or ... rotate periodically during each log-on session

the first option "guarantees"
that you never post from the same location twice

the second option offers the certainty
that from time to time your current location will match
a previous session's location ...
depending on how long your sessions last
and how long someone is pinging you

depends on which program you've purchased/downloaded



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on October 06, 2008, 06:09:05 AM
You are Welcome Finn...Thanks for the info on the Proxies...

Still can't make things fit...LOL

One thing that has been bothering me regarding Simian and his real posts. If Klaas verified them by his email addy and IP, which is my assumption, then I would be wrong about him posting from his workplace. The posts with the confrontation were in the wee hours...not sure that there would be access to a bank at that time. Of course, he may have been on vacation and posting from home... ::MonkeyConfused::

I still think that Simian beginning to post on 6/17 had something to do with Steve Croes arrest. He resumes on 6/22 and just before 5PM starts with his 5th. suspect. Rumours were circulating around the islan on 6/22 that Steve Croes was the one that broke into the Fisherman's Huts...Coincidence?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on October 06, 2008, 10:22:56 AM
Lala's:

I'm glad that you verified what I told you last year
re how the posting system works on the FP
and other blogs which don't require registration:
how the system works/doesn't work
and how it can be manipulated

re IPs: the use of proxies must be considered
along w/ the accuracy of retrieval ...
since systems are what they are: not foolproof

interesting glitch that I've encountered (twice):
a previous poster's nic/email addy appearing
in the boxes I was required to fill in when posting =
my post appeared w/ their nic

I coulda continued posting w/ their info
for as long as I cared to

 :wink:

when I read your recent post re Armin-as-simian:
"I suppose even a confession wouldn't convince you" ...
I took that to mean that Armin had confessed/admitted
and couldn't figure out how I'd missed that little gem!

now I understand that Armin-as-simian
was not a confession/an admission
but rather a product of deductive reasoning

not that there's anything wrong w/ that, LOL

(altho I remain among the unconvinced)



LOL...he did admit it..but I am not the person that found him and contacted him and I will not betray that trust to prove it. The person that did all the work and spent hours working on it should get all the credit.  I have every confidence that this person is telling the truth to me.  In fact, I have verified this information independently of this person recently from a reliable source.  We will continue to be at a stalemate on Simian/Merian's identity...but I know what I know and I am certain that the Simian that is considered the REAL Simian (meaning the IP and/or email are consistent) was and still is A.S. Once, I found this out and could verify it many things I also knew made a lot of sense.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on October 06, 2008, 10:26:48 AM
I would also remind everyone a very reliable way to know who and where an IP is from would be to get the correct information from a legal agency...such as FBI, CIA, NSA, etc.  They can find out the truth where we can not. 

Maybe we should explore Shango's identity a little further?  I still want to know who Checkme is.  ::MonkeyCool::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on October 06, 2008, 10:29:41 AM
An FYI...on checking info on Proxy servers this morning, I found 2 that said that your IP would show up as theirs...I understood this to mean to consistently show up as theirs. And this would all be done anonymously, no inkling of a proxy!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on October 06, 2008, 10:37:15 AM
I would also remind everyone a very reliable way to know who and where an IP is from would be to get the correct information from a legal agency...such as FBI, CIA, NSA, etc.  They can find out the truth where we can not. 

Maybe we should explore Shango's identity a little further?  I still want to know who Checkme is.  ::MonkeyCool::


Shango...I am ready...LOL...Been rethinking and I am sure it is not as complicated to understand as we have made it! Just stuck on the Pinging and Pap!

Checkme...I am thinking on IFA or AHATA friend of Paulus or Anita. Need help though, I am still on 6/12 of the FP! Just hop forward a bit when I want to read something!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on October 06, 2008, 11:39:20 AM
Lala's...What have you got on Checkme!  ::MonkeyHaHa::


Shango...Knows the way things work on Aruba...Santeria...Knows Paulus...Good chance he has some sort of "Knowlege" of the case.

Motive...His Ego...Likes to insert himself into situations and be the center of attention!

Just for Starters...anyone Else?  ::MonkeyWink::





Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on October 06, 2008, 01:46:07 PM
Checkme was a friend of Simian.  Knew Simian's goings and comings and was most often on the opposite side of what Simian posted...as well as Shango.  I wish I had all of Checkme's posts in one location.  Why haven't I thought of that before?  Oh man!  I don't have time to do it today...maybe never. 


Shout out to a mod!!  Is there an easier way to obtain all of Checkme's posts than going one by one through all the FP posts?  Help!!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: vms on October 06, 2008, 02:31:28 PM
@ Mum:
Vanessa, mother of Max.
 
   
H.M. CROES & SONS FREEZONE N.V. 
 
Business address ORANJESTAD VRIJE ZONE Z/N, ORANJESTAD WEST 
Legal form  LIMITED LIABILITY COMPANY 
Name of the company  H.M. CROES & SONS FREEZONE N.V. 
Statutory seat  ARUBA 
Date of incorporation  9 OCTOBER 1989 
     
Authorized capital  ARUBAN FLORINS 100,000.00 
Issued capital  ARUBAN FLORINS 20,000.00 
Paid up capital  ARUBAN FLORINS 20,000.00 
Fiscal year  01 JANUARY thru 31 DECEMBER 
   
DIRECTORS - AUTHORIZED PERSONS AND CORPORATE BODIES - SUPERVISORY BOARD: 
 
CROES, HYACINTHO MARIO (JR)
Residing in  ALOËSTRAAT 4, ORANJESTAD, ARUBA 
Born in  ARUBA on 18 NOVEMBER 1942 
Nationality  DUTCH 
Position  MANAGING DIRECTOR 
Effective  9 OCTOBER 1989 
Authority  FULL 
   
ARENDS-CROES, VANESSA YOLANDA
Residing in  PALMITASTRAAT 1, ORANJESTAD, ARUBA 
Born in  ARUBA on 13 JANUARY 1951 
Nationality  DUTCH 
Position  MANAGING DIRECTOR 
Effective  9 OCTOBER 1989 
Authority  FULL 
   
OBJECTIVE(S) OF THE COMPANY 
 
VOORNOEMDE VENNOOTSCHAP HAAR BEDRIJF UITSLUITEND IN DE VRIJE ZONE ZAL UITOEFENEN EN HANDEL ZAL DRIJVEN IN: SCHOENEN, TEXTIELEN, MEDICIJNEN, LEVENSMIDDELEN, KOFFIE, SUIKER, ALCOHOLISCHE EN ALCOHOLVRIJE DRANKEN, SIGAREN, SIGARETTEN, COSMETICA, NAGELKNIPPERS, LEDERWAREN EN PLASTIC ARTIKELEN.   

http://www.arubachamber.com/registry/registry_result.afp?KeyValue=8841

http://www.arubachamber.com/registry/registry_result.afp?KeyValue=13059
http://www.arubachamber.com/registry/registry_result.afp?KeyValue=11111
http://www.arubachamber.com/registry/registry_result.afp?KeyValue=6385


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: finngirl on October 06, 2008, 03:45:18 PM
now I'm confused

I asked a couple days ago
if Armin had shared the reasoning
behind his sharing of info

ie: telling enough to draw interest
but not telling enough to accomplish anything

from the responses I rec'd
it appeared that there had not been
an actual confimation from Armin
(that he posted as simian)

but now it turns out that it was confirmed

back to my original questions:

it's been implied that Armin "confessed"

my question, again, is:
was his motive/agenda shared?

Who's agenda?  Simian's?  I am confused a little. Help me out. Thanks.

yes, simian's ...
since simian/Armin are the same person?

among other things, simian said:

a sexual motive did not figure into
Natalee's disappearance

ALE was competent/seeking truthful resolution

to successfully solve the case,
it would be necessary to ID the cool/crazy guy
and/or the 5th suspect w/ a false alibi

so ... did Armin's "admission"
include any elaboration as to why
he, as simian, chose to share the info above?

especially: why he was coy/not forthcoming
re the identity/identities of the cool/crazy guy and/or 5th suspect
while he was posting?

since that was a major component of his posts?

or did Armin's confimation simply consist of:
I posted using the nic simian.
period.
end of story.

?



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on October 06, 2008, 06:55:42 PM
Simian wrote more about the Kalpoes being innocent victims than anything else. So is Simian a Kalpoe friend or just telling the truth?  Then sometimes Simian uses 'code names' like Elder and Hindu, then other posts uses actual names (like Kalpoe, Joran, father...).


Simian Says: June 23th, 2005 at 3:14 pm
The Kalpoes will remain detained, because they agreed to go along with the Holiday Inn story
.

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 4:02 pm
The Kalpoes have nothing to spill. They don’t know what the father did. Only Joran knows why he called his Dad in the middle of the night.   

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 3:54 pm
I can confirm they are there. The 3 of them. Remember the Kalpoes know nothing they were informed around the pool deck by Joran. Based on my knowledge they will be confronted. A set up for the behaviour specialists

Simian Says: June 25th, 2005 at 7:56 pm
…the boys met around the pool in Montaña.

Simian Says: June 25th, 2005 at 7:41 pm
Kalpoes went home. Joran stayed behind. Somebody had to come get him.

Simian Says: June 25th, 2005 at 7:50 pm
Only one piece is missing. Around the pool the Hindus were told what to say. They did not know why. They were asked to protect the boy. The father was not there, but he knew what to do. The Hindus thought the girl would reappear.

Simian Says: June 25th, 2005 at 8:21 pm
The Simian knows the Babylonians. They need to plan the legal checkmate perfectly. They know that the elder knows his way around the palace. All gates need to be shut. The Hindus don’t know that the elder knows what happened. They thought they did the boy a favor by protecting him. The Hindus don’t know what happened. The cowboys gave themselves 10 days. One down.


Based on the above posts it appears that Paulus IS the ELDER and NOT the fallen judge...

---The father was not there, but he knew what to do.
---The Hindus don’t know that the elder knows what happened.
---They don’t know what the father did. Only Joran knows why he called his Dad in the middle of the night.

  K2Joran -- "...YOU'RE OWN FATHER..."



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on October 06, 2008, 07:21:46 PM
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?action=post;quote=484825;topic=3437.80;num_replies=158;sesc=e2034749a6edef70c56c7bcb4aad4eac

Hey Mum - had to bring this one over from the main NH thread:

SS...Do you know if the 2.26 Phone call is the one to Deepak for 8 minutes...the one asking for the ride home? TIA

Looking for the cell phone records?? Any idea where to find them? Again TIA

Mum, I found this.....

WorldJOURIER 8 MINUTE PHONE CALL

On 7-14 DILMA ARENDS reported that evidence in the form of cellular phone tracking records of Principal Suspect J. SLOOT pinpoint that he did make a 4:00 AM cellular phone call.  ARENDS also alluded that the forensics may have pinpointed precisely from where Principal Suspect J. SLOOT placed the cellular call from.  ARENDS also said that at 4:00 AM Current Suspect D. KALPOE was home but after receiving the cellular phone call from Principal Suspect J. SLOOT, he left his home and then went to the "Marriott Hotel" location.

http://members.aol.com/worldJOURNIER/NATALEE/NATALEEtimeline.html

Thanks Pita...all I have right now are some from Joran's book. I am not sure if they were ever released or not...

This tells me that Joran was not home on the computer at 4AM.

So it was Deepak who went back to help Joran while Satish rested-interesting...No wonder we haven't heard a peep from him in all these years.

So Deepak went to the Marriott - for what? So Paulus could park his car there blended in with the rest of the cars, then get into Deepaks noisy car to take care of the 'situation'? Or did Deepak park there and hop into Paulus' car? 


Merian 7/14/05 11:48 pm
Everywhere you go, your dot will be on the dish. The thing is that it came back to haunt you. Little altars built into their rooms. Only one rested, while the other one went to the aid of the foul mouthed one. Bite your tongue off now. The elder is half the man he used to be. Dragging his feet on the lonely streets.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on October 06, 2008, 07:37:01 PM
Simian wrote more about the Kalpoes being innocent victims than anything else. So is Simian a Kalpoe friend or just telling the truth?  Then sometimes Simian uses 'code names' like Elder and Hindu, then other posts uses actual names (like Kalpoe, Joran, father...).


Simian Says: June 23th, 2005 at 3:14 pm
The Kalpoes will remain detained, because they agreed to go along with the Holiday Inn story
.

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 4:02 pm
The Kalpoes have nothing to spill. They don’t know what the father did. Only Joran knows why he called his Dad in the middle of the night.   

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 3:54 pm
I can confirm they are there. The 3 of them. Remember the Kalpoes know nothing they were informed around the pool deck by Joran. Based on my knowledge they will be confronted. A set up for the behaviour specialists

Simian Says: June 25th, 2005 at 7:56 pm
…the boys met around the pool in Montaña.

Simian Says: June 25th, 2005 at 7:41 pm
Kalpoes went home. Joran stayed behind. Somebody had to come get him.

Simian Says: June 25th, 2005 at 7:50 pm
Only one piece is missing. Around the pool the Hindus were told what to say. They did not know why. They were asked to protect the boy. The father was not there, but he knew what to do. The Hindus thought the girl would reappear.

Simian Says: June 25th, 2005 at 8:21 pm
The Simian knows the Babylonians. They need to plan the legal checkmate perfectly. They know that the elder knows his way around the palace. All gates need to be shut. The Hindus don’t know that the elder knows what happened. They thought they did the boy a favor by protecting him. The Hindus don’t know what happened. The cowboys gave themselves 10 days. One down.


Based on the above posts it appears that Paulus IS the ELDER and NOT the fallen judge...

---The father was not there, but he knew what to do.
---The Hindus don’t know that the elder knows what happened.
---They don’t know what the father did. Only Joran knows why he called his Dad in the middle of the night.

  K2Joran -- "...YOU'RE OWN FATHER..."





unless being "a judge" was a part of "the catch hand" (see Atlanta vs Pipkins)

how many Shango verses included DirtyHand + elder

i.e.
DirtyHand knows
so does the elder


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on October 06, 2008, 07:49:18 PM
sorry: U.S. vs Pipkins

elders of the game not just of babylon (Arawak!) walk in older circles

he has a history of making himself something he's not (arawak?)




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on October 06, 2008, 08:49:20 PM
sorry: U.S. vs Pipkins

elders of the game not just of babylon (Arawak!) walk in older circles

he has a history of making himself something he's not (arawak?)


C - I knew what you meant.

I looked up what you meant about DirtyHand and elder appearing together in Shango's posts - very interesting!

Then I found the many posts that contain both 'Lordship' and DirtyHand!

What are your thoughts that perhaps the "KEY" is not something that opens a physical door, but a person? An well known person who left broken but anonymous, and went back to Babylon (the Hague?) The KEY is our one and only DirtyHand and his testimony of what he saw that night and how the alibi can be broken. The key that will crack the case wide open - and DirtyHand is the "rotton package from the Hague" who is just 'screaming to be heard'. 


- DirtyHand is the key.
- DirtyHand is the 'Rotton Package' (POS) from the Hague.
- Both Elder and DirtyHand know the lamb is a scapegoat.
- DirtyHand knows the Babylonians (plural) that provided escort AFTER the Kalpoes left.
- DirtyHands' power is that the elders' children fled to Babylon (babylon=netherlands?)
- DirtyHand is the key.
- DirtyHand stays hidden.
- DirtyHand was discovered by the Gods of Cowboys knowing there was a game in the great house
- If cowboys see dirty hand, many teepees fall (but gods saw DirtyHand and did nothing??)
- DirtyHand is consort to all except for the gods.
- DirtyHand walks (present tense) with the elders.
- DirtyHand walks (present tense) in all houses.
- DirtyHand walked (past tense) with the fallen elder.
- DirtyHand was a consort to the fallen elder
- DirtyHand knows the sacrifice is not responsible.
- DirtyHand is afraid to rave.
- DirtyHand has worked for the elders for a long time.
- DirtyHand walks in many circles.
- DirtyHand has entered the maze.
- DirtyHand has walked through the maze.
- DirtyHand does not play with the lions.
- Arawaks fear wrath of cowboys for DirtyHand.
- DirtyHand scared arawaks.
- DirtyHand scares babylonians
- if Arawak DirtyHand is revealed, foundations of house of babylon will shake even harder. (so this is the other one?)
- If Dirtyhand is discovered, House of Babylon falls, Teepees crushed under great house.
- Babylonians are to blame for bringing DirtyHand into the Tribe.
- If DirtyHand sings, sacrifice will still be eaten.
- You still have Dirtyhand even if you play cards in the house of babylon as an arawak.
- DirtyHand is in hiding.
- There are many DirtyHands among the Arawak, and so it has been for centuries.
- DirtyHand is well known.
- All fear DirtyHand.
- DirtyHand is alive and well.
- Dirtyhand is not an Arawak
- DirtyHand and the fallen judge may not be crucified. (is the fallen judge is the block and hammer who is owned by someone?)
- Babalu knew who dirty hand was at half past 12 (somebody in the police).
- DirtyHand is the key.

Posts about 'KEY':

WHY WASN'T DIRTYHAND FROM THE BABYLONS PALACE NOT BROUGHT OUT IN THE PUBLIC?
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:18 pm
Simian, why was the key from the Babylons Palace not used to open the Sumerians Door ? They have become famished and Eden is beckoning….

DIRTYHAND STAYS HIDDEN. HE NEVER EXISTED. THIS DOOR TO THE TRUTH NEVER EXISTED.
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:26 pm
Simian, his lordship did not bring the expected key. the door never existed. Eden is distant.

LORDSHIP DIDN'T BRING DIRTYHAND. DIRTYHAND LEFT BEFORE THE POSSE ARRIVED.
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:30 pm
Simian, his lordship did not bring the key for the Arawaks. So it will remain “cowboys and indians” . The posse was too late.

DIRTYHAND DOES NOT EXIST (BUT HE IS ALIVE AND WELL...)
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:40 pm
The key does not exist. The Arawaks knew Babylonian involvement would prove futile. That is why the cowboys left the fort and a searching with the Indians.

DIRTYHAND DOES NOT EXIST. HE CAN BREAK THE ALIBI, BUT HIS TESTIMONY CANNOT BE USED TO OPEN EDENS DOOR.
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:12 pm
Cowboys must behave in Indian territory. The arawaks need pemmican, they have been without wampum, 1 Moon. The Arawaks keep the singing card. One singing Babylonian and two Hindu chanters are enough. His lordships presence guarantees a trio. The key to edens door did not exist. The refrain has already begun.

LORDSHIP DOES NOT BRING DIRTYHAND. HE DOES NOT EXIST. AND NOW THERE IS ANOTHER DIRTY HAND? IS THIS THE ARAWAK DIRTYHAND? DIRTYHAND CANNOT COME OUT OF HIDING. HE IS THE KEY.
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 6:13 pm
His lordship did not bring the key, it does not exist. doors to eden remain closed. The arawaks hold the singing cards. They have the babylonian and 2 shivas. But the other card is dirty. Even if you play cards in the house of babylon as an arawak, you still have DirtyHand. If DirtyHand comes out of hiding, Babylon will fall and the cowboys will circle the wagons. DirtyHand can destroy the Arawaks and Babylon. Better to prepare the sacrifice quickly so the cowboys go home ….without the loot

ARAWAKS AWAITED DIRTYHAND BUT HIS LORDSHIP SAID NO.
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:34 pm
the struggle between the babylonians and the arawaks still remains hidden. The arawaks awaited the key. his lordship said no. the door to eden remains closed. they are preparing the fire.


DIRTYHAND HOLDS THE REAL KEY - THE KEY THAT HE CAN BREAK THE ALIBI. BUT ARAWAKS FEAR HIS EXPOSURE OF BEING ON THEIR ISLAND.
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:37 pm
DirtyHand is not a child of Babylon. He holds the real key. The Arawaks fear his exposure. The house of babylon would tumble down on the teepees of the Arawaks. DirtyHand knows the cowboys will leave lootless. He can break the alibi.

HIS LORDSHIP DOES NOT HAVE DIRTYHAND. ARUBA MUST FIND A WAY OUT OF THIS MESS WHILE KEEPING DIRTYHAND HIDDEN.
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:56 pm
The Simian knows his Lordship did not have a key to open the door to eden. The answer lies with the Arawak Nation.

APPARENTLY DIRTYHAND WAS 'LEAVING' TO GO BACK TO 'BABYLON' ON 6/27/05
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 11:01 pm
If the door to eden is to be opened with that key, it will be tomorrow or forever remained closed

IF DIRTYHAND OR HIS TESTIMONY OF BREAKING THE ALIBI DOESN'T ARRIVE 6/27/05 WE WILL NEVER GET AN ANSWER.
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 11:12 pm
Even Flying Birds Sing. If the key does not arrive tomorrow, that door to Eden will remain closed I must feed the messengers.

Shango Says:June 27th , 2005 at 9:59 pm
DirtyHand can bring down all houses. DirtyHand is the key. His reach is long. He walks in all circles. consort to all, except for the gods. He knows the sacrifice is not responsible

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:05 pm
The dice throwers know the maze of the rave and the fly that entered the trap. DirtyHand is the key. He walks in many circles.

 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on October 06, 2008, 09:09:30 PM
Poochy:

"You hold the key in your hand"
"Windows overlooking Babylon are being opened by threadsurfers"

MS Windows?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on October 06, 2008, 09:13:27 PM
re:
DirtyHand knows
so does the elder

Even if you (elder) play cards in the house of babylon as an arawak, you (elder) still have DirtyHand. (the hidden card that was played by PVDS)

what was the card game?

 The arawaks hold the singing cards. They have the babylonian and 2 shivas. But the other card is dirty.

(the cards were in jail)

elder of the game, not just of babylon (arawak)




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on October 06, 2008, 09:21:53 PM
Checkme was a friend of Simian.  Knew Simian's goings and comings and was most often on the opposite side of what Simian posted...as well as Shango.  I wish I had all of Checkme's posts in one location.  Why haven't I thought of that before?  Oh man!  I don't have time to do it today...maybe never. 


Shout out to a mod!!  Is there an easier way to obtain all of Checkme's posts than going one by one through all the FP posts?  Help!!

I'm not aware of an easier way.  I cannot even remember how Klaas said she pulled the Shango/Simian posts on the old board....not sure if it was a separate program, or what.  On my old job, I was able to pull data using statements, but I feel my hands are tied....wonder if Dugga has that power?  I'll see what I can find out....I've been away a few days and am behind in most threads.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on October 06, 2008, 09:28:21 PM
Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 12:23 am
Follow the note$
to the poison house                               (DirtyHand holds a key)
where the children of the babylonians     (knew it was dangerous......)
and the arawak nation                          (........to trade among the arawaks)
meet, under cover of delusion.      (DirtyHand is the link)
In the maze
the lions which play            (all the arawaks know the house.....)
shall be found.
The gamblers also took note.     (.......all they knew was written down)
Tell the cowboys!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on October 06, 2008, 10:48:21 PM
Checkme was a friend of Simian.  Knew Simian's goings and comings and was most often on the opposite side of what Simian posted...as well as Shango.  I wish I had all of Checkme's posts in one location.  Why haven't I thought of that before?  Oh man!  I don't have time to do it today...maybe never. 


Shout out to a mod!!  Is there an easier way to obtain all of Checkme's posts than going one by one through all the FP posts?  Help!!

I'm not aware of an easier way.  I cannot even remember how Klaas said she pulled the Shango/Simian posts on the old board....not sure if it was a separate program, or what.  On my old job, I was able to pull data using statements, but I feel my hands are tied....wonder if Dugga has that power?  I'll see what I can find out....I've been away a few days and am behind in most threads.

Klaas is working on pulling this info for you.  Since she moderates the FP, she has access to more functions.  I'm sure she'll post it when it's ready. ::MonkeyCool::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on October 07, 2008, 12:56:39 AM
now I'm confused

I asked a couple days ago
if Armin had shared the reasoning
behind his sharing of info

ie: telling enough to draw interest
but not telling enough to accomplish anything

from the responses I rec'd
it appeared that there had not been
an actual confimation from Armin
(that he posted as simian)

but now it turns out that it was confirmed

back to my original questions:

it's been implied that Armin "confessed"

my question, again, is:
was his motive/agenda shared?

Who's agenda?  Simian's?  I am confused a little. Help me out. Thanks.

yes, simian's ...
since simian/Armin are the same person?

among other things, simian said:

a sexual motive did not figure into
Natalee's disappearance

ALE was competent/seeking truthful resolution

to successfully solve the case,
it would be necessary to ID the cool/crazy guy
and/or the 5th suspect w/ a false alibi

so ... did Armin's "admission"
include any elaboration as to why
he, as simian, chose to share the info above?

especially: why he was coy/not forthcoming
re the identity/identities of the cool/crazy guy and/or 5th suspect
while he was posting?

since that was a major component of his posts?

or did Armin's confimation simply consist of:
I posted using the nic simian.
period.
end of story.

?



Sorry, I misunderstood your question before.  I think both Mum and I answered it without knowing it at the time.  This is my opinion since I can't divulge the name of the person that is responsible for the admission...Simian was trying to shift the focus off his cousin Steve Croes.  Thus him bringing another person into the case and calling him the 5th suspect. Apparently, this person, which could be Paulus or any number of other people, according to Simian is the person that was responsible for what happened to Natalee.  As I have said before, Simian was not trying to implicate Joran or the Kalpoes.  This 5th suspect is the person Simian must have thought was responsible. Simian tells us that the alibi did not work for the Sloots...if that is the case then this 5th suspect was someone else. The 5th suspect waltzed away...you know I am fuss budget about the context of a conversation. As soon as Steve Croes made his stupid decision to insert himself into this mess Simian began his story of the 5th suspect. The 5th suspect had the alibi. Depending on how you count suspects it can be several people..but I truly think that Simian was trying to protect his own family member when he decided to leak info about the 5th.  This may not be what you wanted to hear, but I have no other explanation at this time.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on October 07, 2008, 12:59:10 AM
Checkme was a friend of Simian.  Knew Simian's goings and comings and was most often on the opposite side of what Simian posted...as well as Shango.  I wish I had all of Checkme's posts in one location.  Why haven't I thought of that before?  Oh man!  I don't have time to do it today...maybe never. 


Shout out to a mod!!  Is there an easier way to obtain all of Checkme's posts than going one by one through all the FP posts?  Help!!

I'm not aware of an easier way.  I cannot even remember how Klaas said she pulled the Shango/Simian posts on the old board....not sure if it was a separate program, or what.  On my old job, I was able to pull data using statements, but I feel my hands are tied....wonder if Dugga has that power?  I'll see what I can find out....I've been away a few days and am behind in most threads.

Klaas is working on pulling this info for you.  Since she moderates the FP, she has access to more functions.  I'm sure she'll post it when it's ready. ::MonkeyCool::

Thank you, thank you, thank you!! 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: finngirl on October 07, 2008, 04:11:19 AM
Sorry, I misunderstood your question before.  I think both Mum and I answered it without knowing it at the time.  This is my opinion since I can't divulge the name of the person that is responsible for the admission...Simian was trying to shift the focus off his cousin Steve Croes.  Thus him bringing another person into the case and calling him the 5th suspect. Apparently, this person, which could be Paulus or any number of other people, according to Simian is the person that was responsible for what happened to Natalee.  As I have said before, Simian was not trying to implicate Joran or the Kalpoes.  This 5th suspect is the person Simian must have thought was responsible. Simian tells us that the alibi did not work for the Sloots...if that is the case then this 5th suspect was someone else. The 5th suspect waltzed away...you know I am fuss budget about the context of a conversation. As soon as Steve Croes made his stupid decision to insert himself into this mess Simian began his story of the 5th suspect. The 5th suspect had the alibi. Depending on how you count suspects it can be several people..but I truly think that Simian was trying to protect his own family member when he decided to leak info about the 5th.  This may not be what you wanted to hear, but I have no other explanation at this time.

not a matter of what I wanted to hear, LOL
as it is exactly what finbar and I thought ...

altho we had/have someone else in mind
(as simian)

same family tree/same motivation

still in the dark
as to whether this was confirmed by Armin
but I can see that I'll never get an answer to that, so ...

 :cool:

anyway, thank you for responding



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on October 07, 2008, 04:27:16 AM
From the NAH Thread

 Re: Natalee Case Discussion #771 « Reply #120 on: October 06, 2008, 02:09:43 PM » Quote  Frijole

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree that the Greta interview with Charles Croe was very strange.  Course this was before we knew how corrupt everyone is/was....

I remember thinking by his looks and his cryptic talk that he knew alot and that he had to be CIA or DEA.  Greta made sure we knew that the interview was heavily edited so as not to jeopardize the case.  REmember this is when we all still believed that anything said in the media would be excluded as evidence.  We thought Greta was being careful not to ruin the case.

I have many times shouted out for Greta to replay that entire interview so we could know what was said.  I think Joran said some incriminating things that night.  I think Croes was silenced by the Elders.

Good day all - back to work  here-


Re: Natalee Case Discussion #771
« Reply #128 on: October 06, 2008, 02:53:12 PM »Magnolia

I think that CC is a fussy old maid who wants to be a big frog in a little pond.
He owes somebody a lot for getting him the phone deal from Mathews.
Ben King and Paulus come to mind.  I think they called in their favors when
Natalee was killed and CC doesn't know how to get out of the situation.
Remember when they threw him in the pokey for 8 days?  I think that was
a warning when he started to grow a conscience.  He is a weak man IMO.


   Simian on June 28th, 2005 3:10 am
Shango cannot understand PAPIAMENTO, otheriwse he would have already taken notice that he has been pinged.
If you really know more, you should spent the 8 days in jail eating peanut butter on stale bread with some cold tea. Just like Steve Croes.




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on October 07, 2008, 09:03:33 AM
now I'm confused

I asked a couple days ago
if Armin had shared the reasoning
behind his sharing of info

ie: telling enough to draw interest
but not telling enough to accomplish anything

from the responses I rec'd
it appeared that there had not been
an actual confimation from Armin
(that he posted as simian)

but now it turns out that it was confirmed

back to my original questions:

it's been implied that Armin "confessed"

my question, again, is:
was his motive/agenda shared?

Who's agenda?  Simian's?  I am confused a little. Help me out. Thanks.

yes, simian's ...
since simian/Armin are the same person?

among other things, simian said:

a sexual motive did not figure into
Natalee's disappearance

ALE was competent/seeking truthful resolution

to successfully solve the case,
it would be necessary to ID the cool/crazy guy
and/or the 5th suspect w/ a false alibi

so ... did Armin's "admission"
include any elaboration as to why
he, as simian, chose to share the info above?

especially: why he was coy/not forthcoming
re the identity/identities of the cool/crazy guy and/or 5th suspect
while he was posting?

since that was a major component of his posts?

or did Armin's confimation simply consist of:
I posted using the nic simian.
period.
end of story.

?



Sorry, I misunderstood your question before.  I think both Mum and I answered it without knowing it at the time.  This is my opinion since I can't divulge the name of the person that is responsible for the admission...Simian was trying to shift the focus off his cousin Steve Croes.  Thus him bringing another person into the case and calling him the 5th suspect. Apparently, this person, which could be Paulus or any number of other people, according to Simian is the person that was responsible for what happened to Natalee.  As I have said before, Simian was not trying to implicate Joran or the Kalpoes.  This 5th suspect is the person Simian must have thought was responsible. Simian tells us that the alibi did not work for the Sloots...if that is the case then this 5th suspect was someone else. The 5th suspect waltzed away...you know I am fuss budget about the context of a conversation. As soon as Steve Croes made his stupid decision to insert himself into this mess Simian began his story of the 5th suspect. The 5th suspect had the alibi. Depending on how you count suspects it can be several people..but I truly think that Simian was trying to protect his own family member when he decided to leak info about the 5th.  This may not be what you wanted to hear, but I have no other explanation at this time.



Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 2:58 pm
The music man’s (1 card) song was not on the bill.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:09 pm
Simian, who else plays (card #2) in the orchestra? A Babylonian….
 

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:10 pm
Simian, older PVDS had one ot two cards up his sleeve. They have been played, and lost. Will one of the cards sing?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on October 07, 2008, 11:20:52 AM
Checkme was a friend of Simian.  Knew Simian's goings and comings and was most often on the opposite side of what Simian posted...as well as Shango.  I wish I had all of Checkme's posts in one location.  Why haven't I thought of that before?  Oh man!  I don't have time to do it today...maybe never. 


Shout out to a mod!!  Is there an easier way to obtain all of Checkme's posts than going one by one through all the FP posts?  Help!!





Is this supported by any posts?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on October 07, 2008, 11:26:29 AM
Finngirl...Not sure if this is the exact post about the house in Saveneta! Now why would there be pics of this house on the net on 6/9/2005?

Jun 17, 10:02 AM —       
810. Checkme   
Savaneta is on the east side of Aruba. This morning’s local newpaper reports a person being detained at Saveta. I have seen pics of this person’s house in savaneta on the net, on the day they arrested the three.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on October 07, 2008, 12:41:29 PM
Finn...Another one...dated 6/16...

Jun 16, 5:43 PM —       
817. Checkme   
There was a pic online showing a house in Savaneta, where Karin Jansen was at the door, and the guy who loves there is a known drug dealer. (He drives around in a souped-up grafiti truck (after he crashed his brand new audi TT 2 years ago). In the same scene as the Kalpoes. Where did they get the money to drive that grey car?) I hear a persistent mention of this fourth person on the local radio. Dealing drugs requires a network ring. Sources (savaneta), distributions (Kalpoes) and fronts (van der Sloot, with or without his knowing).


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: klaasend on October 07, 2008, 01:17:19 PM
Finn...Another one...dated 6/16...

Jun 16, 5:43 PM —       
817. Checkme   
There was a pic online showing a house in Savaneta, where Karin Jansen was at the door, and the guy who loves there is a known drug dealer. (He drives around in a souped-up grafiti truck (after he crashed his brand new audi TT 2 years ago). In the same scene as the Kalpoes. Where did they get the money to drive that grey car?) I hear a persistent mention of this fourth person on the local radio. Dealing drugs requires a network ring. Sources (savaneta), distributions (Kalpoes) and fronts (van der Sloot, with or without his knowing).

FYI - you guys are picking up the wrong date.  The date is at the end and the number(817) is at the beginning.  This is the correct date/time:

817. Checkme   
There was a pic online showing a house in Savaneta, where Karin Jansen was at the door, and the guy who loves there is a known drug dealer. (He drives around in a souped-up grafiti truck (after he crashed his brand new audi TT 2 years ago). In the same scene as the Kalpoes. Where did they get the money to drive that grey car?) I hear a persistent mention of this fourth person on the local radio. Dealing drugs requires a network ring. Sources (savaneta), distributions (Kalpoes) and fronts (van der Sloot, with or without his knowing).
Jun 16, 5:41 PM —


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on October 07, 2008, 01:22:03 PM
Finn...Another one...dated 6/16...

Jun 16, 5:43 PM —       
817. Checkme   
There was a pic online showing a house in Savaneta, where Karin Jansen was at the door, and the guy who loves there is a known drug dealer. (He drives around in a souped-up grafiti truck (after he crashed his brand new audi TT 2 years ago). In the same scene as the Kalpoes. Where did they get the money to drive that grey car?) I hear a persistent mention of this fourth person on the local radio. Dealing drugs requires a network ring. Sources (savaneta), distributions (Kalpoes) and fronts (van der Sloot, with or without his knowing).

FYI - you guys are picking up the wrong date.  The date is at the end and the number(817) is at the beginning.  This is the correct date/time:

817. Checkme   
There was a pic online showing a house in Savaneta, where Karin Jansen was at the door, and the guy who loves there is a known drug dealer. (He drives around in a souped-up grafiti truck (after he crashed his brand new audi TT 2 years ago). In the same scene as the Kalpoes. Where did they get the money to drive that grey car?) I hear a persistent mention of this fourth person on the local radio. Dealing drugs requires a network ring. Sources (savaneta), distributions (Kalpoes) and fronts (van der Sloot, with or without his knowing).
Jun 16, 5:41 PM —


Thanks Klaas....


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on October 07, 2008, 05:29:07 PM
a ring.......would that be the same as a circle?
 ::MonkeyRoll::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on October 07, 2008, 06:47:44 PM
a ring.......would that be the same as a circle?
 ::MonkeyRoll::


 ::MonkeyHaHa::    :smt045


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: finngirl on October 08, 2008, 03:24:33 AM

Friday, June 17, 2005
The Aruban attorney general's office initially identified him only by the initials "SGC," but Holloway's mother told an interviewer that his name was "Steve." FOX News later confirmed that the man's name was Steve Gregory Croes.

Meanwhile, police brought in yet another man for questioning Friday night, FOX News has learned. The man, Max Arends, who is also a friend of van der Sloot, is not a suspect in the case and has not been arrested.

In Alabama, a woman who helped organize the graduation trip, Jody Bearman, said the students did not go on the "Tattoo" as a group, although some of the teens could have taken a ride on the boat on their own without the knowledge of the seven adult chaperones.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,159862,00.html
_ _ _ _ _

June 18, 2005 5:45 pm
arubagirl: aia, van Rijn is the son of the late owner of the Volkswagen dealership. He is very close to van der Sloot, and he has been taken in for questioning.

June 18, 2005 5:49 pm
americaninaruba: they took him again??!!! IM sorry I know who he is but I was lost..I didnt know they have him again....I understood they interrogated him & released him later......wow ok I know who this guy is if you check my posts. I "described" him!
_ _ _ _ _

June 19, 2005

AG: here's a post from "Adella" from Aruba on websleuths yesterday i believe. It addresses the two max situation:

Hold your horses!!!!

I've been trying to keep up with the posts because I left off yesterday before part 6 was even closed....but when I got to post 101 I was shocked! And I started to quickly glance over everything to post an update already!!!

I have to say, YOU GUYS ARE FAST@! This Max Arends is my brother! He's at home, chillin' all freaked out because you already know him! He is actually Joran's class-mate and exactly the person I was mentioning in part 6 that CNBC is desperately trying to contact for a 'simple' interview. He didn't want to participate since they want to question him by himself and they want a positive side of Joran, I think as well as he think that they will EAT HIM ALIVE if he does that!

Anyhow, he's not the Max Arends that [is] being arrested, this is another Max Arends who I happen to know as well, his name is actually not Max Arends, but Maxito, and his last name is Arendsz. I'm not sure what's happening to him right now, but I already have someone trying to find that out.

Again, my brother is not arrested and has anything [nothing] to do with this.
_ _ _ _ _

Aug 1, 2005
Peeps: I am the owner of Boost Unit website and the webmaster of the speedshop.

Peeps: This is not the first time that somebody wants to connect us with the fatass dutchy.

Peeps: Maxito is one of my best friends. We go everywhere together. He doesn't know this guy Lorenzo. We don't know locoman nor his following. Also we don't want to know anything about him. We stick to our motto " minding our own business".
_ _ _ _ _

mid-August, 2005
sandraK: Lorenzo's Dad had a VW Dealership.. He is dead.sadly..He runs with Max Arendsz & Orlando Bello.  From the Aruba Speed Shop...A Kinda Strange Dude.. but harmless...  SM's think he has something to do with this.. Cops Been all over him.. He's not involved...
_ _ _ _ _

Mon Aug 22, 2005 3:35 pm
arubagirl: They have questioned friends, such as Max Arendsz and Lorenzo van Rijn, and I believe one other guy was questioned for sure, as I believe a few girlfriends.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: finngirl on October 08, 2008, 04:08:43 AM

from the FP

Leila on June 7th, 2005 10:51 pm
As a local from Aruba I am also very concerned about this situation. My prayers are with Natalee and her family and loved ones. I hope so much they’ll find her back alive, but of course everybody by now fears the worst. If they don’t find her alive or dead, they’ll have no case. The three boys are not off the hook, nor are the two security employees. In tonights local newsedition. Chris Lejuez said that most probably the 2 guards will not be formally charged with anything. For starters, the police arrested them unlawfully. Other technical mistakes have been concerning the arrest. Too many loose ends.

Yesterday I read some one was upset about Aruba being put in such negative light, cuz Aruba is, in his view, a safe and clean place. Hey, I’m glad! Carlos n Charlie is the worst place to go. Of course they wait for the girls that are spending their “last night in Aruba”- night. This date raping or gang raping is going on for a long time now. The local victims don’t even go to police, cuz they’re too embarassed about the situation. And NOBODY is going to believe there was no consent. Because you WERE drinking, you were dancing on the tables. And what happens here is soo tragic. The boys wait right outside on you, in this dark back alley location, to push you in their car for one more last stop.

Tourist will always come and go. But please girls, don’t mix and don’t do anything here what you wouldn’t do at home.

You cannot even trust yourself, so WHY trust another?? Be it in Aruba or elsewhere…


Tom on June 8th, 2005 4:20 pm
For What it is Worth,

the CnC concept is owned by the same group as Senor Frogs. Last year in the Bahamas my wife and went to Senor Frogs and I had 2 drinks and stumbled out of the restaurant. Now I am 6′4 and weigh 240 pounds, not 5′3 and 100 soaking wet. I had not been that drunk since college, and did not know what hit me. We had been at Club Med for the previous week and had no problems drinking all night.

The point I am making is that I can see how inhibitions can be lost and severe drunkenness occurs at this chain. They actively promote it, and make drinks that are surprisingly strong.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on October 08, 2008, 04:23:22 AM
One more post saying that Paulus was not a Judge...From the Race Junkies thread...

RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
« Reply #334 on: June 24, 2005, 04:16:38 AM »
Quote from: "Itawamba"
What can you tell me about this Lorenzo... so I can do some research on him. All I know is that he suppose to a son to Paulus Van Der Sloot.


He's allegedly 26-27 years old.  IF the vdSloot part of his story is true, which I still doubt highly, he would most likely have been born in Holland, possibly Arnehm, where Paulus lived when he was married to Anita and they had Joran.

(I don't know that Arnehm is Paulus's hometown, but it's a known place to start.)  We've heard that Paul was a school teacher before he got into government service in Aruba 10 years ago and did whatever legal training he is supposed to have, whether he has a law degree or not. 

Paulus's job in Aruba for the past few years has been as one of the department of Liaison between The Netherlands and Aruba--and I believe, others of the Dutch Antilles.  That is KABNAA and he was appointed to a 3-year term ending in Jan 2006, except that he evidently has been let go since all this started.

So, who is Lorenzo's mother?  Could it be the Deborah vRijn in Oranjestad, perhaps a widow, or is that just too easy?

Lorenzo's "father" on Aruba is said to have been the Volkswagen dealer on the island and he committed suicide three years ago.  The VW dealership that is there now is:

R & S Automotive N.V.
Address: Barcadera 4
Phone: (297) 585-3004 / (297) 585-3008
Fax: (297) 585-9115 

Note that it's on Barcadera, not sure exactly where that address is, but one of the very earliest searches for Natalee was in the Barcadera area.  I suppose someone could call them and ask questions about the former (late) owner.  He was said to be well known, obviously, since he was a car dealer who needed to have his company name out in the public.

Lorenzo is said to have two homes on far opposite sides of the island--one a mansion and one brightly painted (may be the same one).  Other vague details are that he has a basement in one of these houses, which is rare on Aruba (if not non-existent, IMO); that he gives "underground" parties, meaning *raves*, which are unruly and unsupervised;  that he is "crazy" himself, or perhaps "touched in the head" since his father's death; that he owns a speedboat; and that he was called in for questioning in Nat's disappearance, just before SG Croes was, but he was not detained.
 
 
 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on October 08, 2008, 04:28:16 AM
Operation Caribbean Corridor

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1190.msg176383#msg176383
 
Lively Case Discussion #635 6/5 - 6/6/2007 « Reply #692 on: June 06, 2007, 01:13:34 PM » 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
June 5, 2005, over two tons of cocaine seized.

Suspected foul-play involving American teenager Natalee Holloway isn't the only big crime story in Aruba these days. Known as a favorite transshipment for drug traffckers, the waters surrounding Aruba were the scene of a major drug interdiction operation by US officials.

United States federal agents seized 4,488 pounds of cocaine on board the Bolivian-flagged vessel M/V Sea Atlantic at approximately 150 nautical miles off the coast of Aruba. The seizure was part of Operation Caribbean Corridor, an investigative/law enforcement initiative by the Immigration and Customs Enforcement, the Federal Bureau of Investigation, and the US Coast Guard in the Caribbean Basin.


snipped...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on October 08, 2008, 10:40:11 AM
Read the Checkme posts...they are enlightening about Lorenzo and a few other things.  I always hint, but no one ever listens to me. LOL 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on October 08, 2008, 05:49:55 PM
Read the Checkme posts...they are enlightening about Lorenzo and a few other things.  I always hint, but no one ever listens to me. LOL 



766. Checkme   
Fox-news:
“FOX also learned that police may have questioned yet another young man, said to be of Dutch nationality, on Thursday night.”
This is the guy with the blue van… He is the key to the story.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on October 08, 2008, 07:15:15 PM
Klaas - thanks so much for the checkme thread.  It's great.

I've been going through the checkme posts.  He certainly does seem to be a Sloot fan with the Colombian kidnapping theory.  I did pull out some information...

allyinmiami is a corporate lawyer who's birthday is 7/25.

Checkme is certainly focused on LVR and the blue van with the speakers.  He doesn't think Simian tells the truth.

I found these things interesting ...

Jun 24, 9:22 PM —       
284. AllyinMiami   
Okay–thanks, Lucy subdude sounded a “little rough around the edges”…at our happy hour today, Lucy,—people were saying that I am looking too much into it. they believe that Joran killed her, father helped dispose of her, and relied on his friends/political collegues to assist him in making her body unidentifiable and untraceable..and the two brothers to provide Joran an alibi…none are talking b/c there is no body–My friends feel like they don’t need to talk (they are all lawyers, BTW).they think I am crazy…. I dont want to go out tonight…I want to watch Greta..Checkme, u need a sense of humor

ShocktheMonkey Says:
June 25th, 2005 at 9:40 pm
Yes, something bad did happened. But it was an accident, it wasn’t meant to happen … as it did not happen on the beach as assumed, rather, it was in a house.
The Hindus are not completely clean, but the Babylonians need them.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on October 08, 2008, 07:55:26 PM
will bump:



ARUBAN MAFIA SOLD NATALEE TO SEX SLAVE TRADERS

Note From Rayelan:
This arrived in an email. I have no idea who sent it. I am posting it because it has "the ring of truth"!

Aruba is controlled by the sicilian mafia -- all judges are bought -- the judge in training - the boy's father, is part of the Cuntrera family - the sicilian mafia top dogs -- they control all of aruba - they control judges, police - and all intelligence -

The Cuntrera-Caruana Mafia-clan that control Aruba have been called the 'Rothschilds of the Mafia' or 'the bankers of Cosa Nostra'.

You can read more about them on this page: http://www.tni.org/archives/tblick/aruba.htm
Aruba was supposed to go independent in the mid 90s, but it was held up by the CIA. The CIA didn't want give them independence because the Aruban mafia wouldn't play by the rules... ANY rules... Aruba would have become another haiti -- a rich haiti! A haiti that could buy anyone and control anything!

Natalee was sold - The kids probably got her to drink some stuff -- maybe even the date rape stuff. She was probably raped by all three -- the kids realized when she woke up they would be in trouble so they contacted their friend... the DJ. The DJ is the connection to the mafia -- the kids went to him to get rid of her -- He probably made money selling her. I will bet the boat the DJ works on is a Cuntrera nightclub.

Natalee's not on Aruba - She was probably taken to Venezuela - probably sold into sexual slavery there. Or sold to the saudis. She is exactly the kind the Saudis like... blonde, tall, slim and beautiful. If they ever find her she won't be herself.

The texas ranger unit that has been sent to Aruba is an intel operation -- Nothing will come of any of this if they continue to think they way they are thinking now. You can't dig up intel and come up with anything this time.

The people who run Aruba are some of the baddest people in the world. If anyone tries to expose them, they will come and kill your whole family... maybe even your whole town! It's NOT worth it... they are more powerful than God -- In fact they ARE God... meaning they are working with the vatican -

They are a power unto themselves... they are NOT part of the NWO. They have aligned, over the years, with Faction Two. Remember "Lucky" Luciano. The Sicilian Mafia understands the new world order... it's the real Jewish Mafia. The Aruban mafia is so powerful that even the NWO leaves them alone! They make the Muslim terrorists look like Keystone Cops.

The only way Natalee will ever be returned is if someone is sacrificed, and I don't mean in the Santarian way like that decapitated body they found in the graveyard. Someone has to take the fall and it will probably be the DJ. He's nobody. The other kids are connected to families that have a modicum of power already and therefore can be used in the future.

If the DJ agrees to take the fall, his family will be taken care of and eventually he will be "disappeared" and one day "reappeared" with a new face and new identity. At least this is what he will be promised.

The way I see it, the intel unit, disguised as Texas Rangers COULD broker the deal if they wake up and realize what they're dealing with. Maybe they won't get their REAL orders til they get there! Right now their orders are to go in and gather intel. This is a joke. Our government knows exactly what's happened. They just don't know where Natalee has been taken.

If she was taken to Costa Rica she could be found because the CIA has assets there and in most other South American countries. The only country where the CIA assets have fled or been killed is Venezuela. If Natalee was sold into one of the Venezuelan sex houses, then no one can find her... except the same people who sold her... the Aruban mafia.

If the heat gets hot enough on Aruba. If the Mafia connection starts popping up in the MSM, that will be bad for business. The US is powerful enough to broker a deal to get Natalee back. What does the Aruban mafia want that President Bush can give them? Since no one will ever know that any kind of deal has ever taken place, it doesn't matter what they want. The hero will be some Aruban detective that traces Natalee to the nightclub ship and to "sex slave traders". No one will ever know the Mafia participation in her sale AND in her recovery!

If she was taken to Saudi Arabia, it will be tricky to get her back, but it could be done. All that would be needed is something to trade something that the Saudis want. If I had my way, I'd give the Saudis whatever they wanted in trade for Natalee, and follow it up with a Nuke! The Saudis are NOT our friends. All Muslim terrorism throughout the world originates from Saudi Arabia. They are the puppets of the City of London. They were created by the City of London!

Have to go.

Here's a blogger that seems to be getting some accurate info.
http://hyscience.typepad.com/hyscience/2005/06/natalee_hollowa_7.html

If I hear anymore, I will be in contact.


 # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # #

Shango Says:
June 30th, 2005 at 2:36 am
Casanostra is standing at a window looking onto Babylon

casanostra Says:
June 30th, 2005 at 2:35 am
ìI picked the casanostra as a name after doing much research as to their relationship to the island of Aruba and the drug trade, as well as other things that go along with it. Do some googling and find out for yourself. I think that Natalee is alive and that there are people on the island, and those that pass through the island that no one wants to mess with. There lies the predicament. You have a criminal element more powerful than the authorities and a chess game is being played. I think Joran is being protected, but he is also guilty of something. Not murder, but leading Natalee into something very sinister. I apologize if my speculation is in any way disrespectful to she or her family, but I find this very intriguing and it goes much deeper than what is implied on television


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on October 08, 2008, 08:02:38 PM
Operation Caribbean Corridor

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1190.msg176383#msg176383
 
Lively Case Discussion #635 6/5 - 6/6/2007 « Reply #692 on: June 06, 2007, 01:13:34 PM » 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
June 5, 2005, over two tons of cocaine seized.

Suspected foul-play involving American teenager Natalee Holloway isn't the only big crime story in Aruba these days. Known as a favorite transshipment for drug traffckers, the waters surrounding Aruba were the scene of a major drug interdiction operation by US officials.

United States federal agents seized 4,488 pounds of cocaine on board the Bolivian-flagged vessel M/V Sea Atlantic at approximately 150 nautical miles off the coast of Aruba. The seizure was part of Operation Caribbean Corridor, an investigative/law enforcement initiative by the Immigration and Customs Enforcement, the Federal Bureau of Investigation, and the US Coast Guard in the Caribbean Basin.


snipped...


http://www.renewamerica.us/columns/kouri/051019

"ICE and the other federal agencies in Operation Caribbean Corridor — DEA, FBI and the US Coast Guard — are working together, efficiently and intelligently to stop the transshipment of drugs and other contraband in the Caribbean Basin," according to officials from ICE.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: finngirl on October 09, 2008, 01:36:05 AM

I picked the casanostra as a name after doing much research as to their relationship to the island of Aruba and the drug trade, as well as other things that go along with it ...

I well remember that post
and shango's quick response/one minute later:

Casanostra is standing at a window looking onto Babylon

typo: casanostra vs cosanostra (cosa nostra/mafia)
but the meaning is intact

cosa nostra roughly = "what is ours/our thing" in italian

shango's "window" posts re babalu/casanostra
provide confirmation of correct analysis/insight

june 27, 2005
12:30 am
babalu: Concerned, no, I guess he is head of some local official corps. He is the guy that knows everything and that has been in the house of Babylonians NOT seeking pleasure for himself, so Shango says. So maybe he went to search for Natalee and he is the chief of Polis.
 
4:00 am
shango: Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon with his 12:30 posting

12:12 pm
shango: Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon with his 12:30 AM posting.

If the cowboys do not find the loot today, it will not be found


12:26 pm
shango: Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon with his 12:30 AM posting.

Simian your Doppleganger is with us


12:28 pm
shango: Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon with his 12:30 AM posting

9:44 pm
shango: Babalu opened a window looking into Babylon on his 12:30 A.M. Post.

DirtyHand is alive


9:48 pm
shango: Babalu knew who dirty hand was at half past 12

10:45pm
shango: Windows looking onto Babylon are being opened by the ThreadSurfers

11:04 pm
shango: Babalu opened a window looking onto Babylon with his 12:30 A.M. post



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: finngirl on October 09, 2008, 02:03:13 AM
Jun 17, 10:02 AM —       
810. Checkme   
Savaneta is on the east side of Aruba. This morning’s local newpaper reports a person being detained at Saveta. I have seen pics of this person’s house in savaneta on the net, on the day they arrested the three.

Finngirl...Not sure if this is the exact post about the house in Saveneta! Now why would there be pics of this house on the net on 6/9/2005?

are you askin' me? LOL

my best guess would be a local media outlet:
TV or print (not radio)

and since none of us captured a screen print
now we can't see what has since "disappeared"

Finn...Another one...dated 6/16...

Jun 16, 5:43 PM —       
817. Checkme   
There was a pic online showing a house in Savaneta, where Karin Jansen was at the door, and the guy who loves [lives] there is a known drug dealer. (He drives around in a souped-up grafiti truck (after he crashed his brand new audi TT 2 years ago). In the same scene as the Kalpoes. Where did they get the money to drive that grey car?) I hear a persistent mention of this fourth person on the local radio. Dealing drugs requires a network ring. Sources (savaneta), distributions (Kalpoes) and fronts (van der Sloot, with or without his knowing).

boggles the mind to re-read
all the info we heard so long ago

I still say the earliest info was right on:
Lorenzo/Lorenzo/Lorenzo

they had no idea where it was heading,
how big it would get
and that the story wouldn't go away

also no comprehension that the group effort
re the later back-pedaling
would appear so ludicrous/so obvious

GMAFB  :roll:



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on October 09, 2008, 03:34:10 AM
googled Faction 2........... ::MonkeyEek::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on October 09, 2008, 04:31:03 AM
Interesting post by AG...Nazi Murders????

arubagirl on June 11th, 2005 2:57 am
Local, I’ve never heard anyone getting life here. I think Nazi murders and the like have gotten life. Of course, It’s 3 am, and my brain isn’t in its top condition.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on October 09, 2008, 04:33:39 AM
Jun 17, 10:02 AM —       
810. Checkme   
Savaneta is on the east side of Aruba. This morning’s local newpaper reports a person being detained at Saveta. I have seen pics of this person’s house in savaneta on the net, on the day they arrested the three.

Finngirl...Not sure if this is the exact post about the house in Saveneta! Now why would there be pics of this house on the net on 6/9/2005?

are you askin' me? LOL

my best guess would be a local media outlet:
TV or print (not radio)

and since none of us captured a screen print
now we can't see what has since "disappeared"


Finn...Another one...dated 6/16...

Jun 16, 5:43 PM —       
817. Checkme   
There was a pic online showing a house in Savaneta, where Karin Jansen was at the door, and the guy who loves [lives] there is a known drug dealer. (He drives around in a souped-up grafiti truck (after he crashed his brand new audi TT 2 years ago). In the same scene as the Kalpoes. Where did they get the money to drive that grey car?) I hear a persistent mention of this fourth person on the local radio. Dealing drugs requires a network ring. Sources (savaneta), distributions (Kalpoes) and fronts (van der Sloot, with or without his knowing).

boggles the mind to re-read
all the info we heard so long ago

I still say the earliest info was right on:
Lorenzo/Lorenzo/Lorenzo

they had no idea where it was heading,
how big it would get
and that the story wouldn't go away

also no comprehension that the group effort
re the later back-pedaling
would appear so ludicrous/so obvious

GMAFB  :roll:



Finn...not hard to "disappear' something that was never there in the first place! ::MonkeyWink::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on October 09, 2008, 04:40:32 AM
Read the Checkme posts...they are enlightening about Lorenzo and a few other things.  I always hint, but no one ever listens to me. LOL 

Quick read and out of context...

Sounds a lot like Simian...possibly cut from the same cloth!

Have never thought while reading Checkme's posts that "he" was a male...just the impression I got...now with dishes piled on the sink and reading the posts...I am more convinced than ever...Arlene?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on October 09, 2008, 04:55:06 AM
Operation Caribbean Corridor

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1190.msg176383#msg176383
 
Lively Case Discussion #635 6/5 - 6/6/2007 « Reply #692 on: June 06, 2007, 01:13:34 PM » 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
June 5, 2005, over two tons of cocaine seized.

Suspected foul-play involving American teenager Natalee Holloway isn't the only big crime story in Aruba these days. Known as a favorite transshipment for drug traffckers, the waters surrounding Aruba were the scene of a major drug interdiction operation by US officials.

United States federal agents seized 4,488 pounds of cocaine on board the Bolivian-flagged vessel M/V Sea Atlantic at approximately 150 nautical miles off the coast of Aruba. The seizure was part of Operation Caribbean Corridor, an investigative/law enforcement initiative by the Immigration and Customs Enforcement, the Federal Bureau of Investigation, and the US Coast Guard in the Caribbean Basin.


snipped...


http://www.renewamerica.us/columns/kouri/051019

"ICE and the other federal agencies in Operation Caribbean Corridor — DEA, FBI and the US Coast Guard — are working together, efficiently and intelligently to stop the transshipment of drugs and other contraband in the Caribbean Basin," according to officials from ICE.


Agents were on Aruba the night of 5/29...

Big bust on 6/5...Obviously this was already in the works! Were the SGs arrested to take the spotlight off of this joint venture and not J2K...so the dots would not be connected?

Would the operation have been jeopardized on 6/5 if the 'eyes in the sky' had told what they really saw?

The reason Joran is as cocky as he is...The big picture...

How did he get on a FBI Watch List anyway?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: finngirl on October 09, 2008, 06:23:46 AM
Finn...not hard to "disappear' something that was never there in the first place!

ah, I see (said the blind finn)

so ... Lorenzo was a red herring?

sim/checkme/all the early locals
were providing mis-information
when they started the Lorenzo angle?

arubagirl/native lingo/american in aruba/etc?

so then Peeps was telling the truth ...
and Karin Janssen musta been on the up and up
cuz checkme tried to link her to the "non-event"
at Lorenzo's

sheesh ... and I fell for every bit of it

I can't remember if/when I've misjudged a situation
this badly before



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on October 09, 2008, 06:42:22 AM
Finn...not hard to "disappear' something that was never there in the first place!

ah, I see (said the blind finn)

so ... Lorenzo was a red herring?

sim/checkme/all the early locals
were providing mis-information
when they started the Lorenzo angle?

arubagirl/native lingo/american in aruba/etc?

so then Peeps was telling the truth ...
and Karin Janssen musta been on the up and up
cuz checkme tried to link her to the "non-event"
at Lorenzo's

sheesh ... and I fell for every bit of it

I can't remember if/when I've misjudged a situation
this badly before


LOL...Finn...all I am saying is that we only have Checkme's word that there was a pic of the house on the internet on 6/9.








Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: vms on October 09, 2008, 07:49:38 AM
Mum,

IIRC, I hear Shango/I heard Shango also saw the scene Checkme described with Karin Jansen at the door. I think she told me they brought him out in handcuffs.

Also, check the date for the bust of the M/V Sea Atlantic: http://www.usdoj.gov/dea/pubs/states/newsrel/carib090505.html

I remember a lot of talk about the bust of the D'Mary but I think it was later in June also...
http://www.caribbeannetnews.com/2005/06/30/seizes.shtml

One more, lol.

The Chamber of Commerce board:
http://www.arubachamber.com/contactboardmembers.htm


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on October 09, 2008, 08:12:00 AM
Mum,

IIRC, I hear Shango/I heard Shango also saw the scene Checkme described with Karin Jansen at the door. I think she told me they brought him out in handcuffs.

Also, check the date for the bust of the M/V Sea Atlantic: http://www.usdoj.gov/dea/pubs/states/newsrel/carib090505.html

I remember a lot of talk about the bust of the D'Mary but I think it was later in June also...
http://www.caribbeannetnews.com/2005/06/30/seizes.shtml

One more, lol.

The Chamber of Commerce board:
http://www.arubachamber.com/contactboardmembers.htm


Thanks vms...Too many pain meds...LOL...Driving DH nuts as well!!!!

Wonder why the Chamber decided you didn't have to log in anymore?

Had a note to check on the Mary...remember that from way back...

LOL...on the dates...old habits die hard!



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on October 09, 2008, 08:18:58 AM
Operation Caribbean Corridor

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1190.msg176383#msg176383
 
Lively Case Discussion #635 6/5 - 6/6/2007 « Reply #692 on: June 06, 2007, 01:13:34 PM » 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
June 5, 2005, over two tons of cocaine seized.

Suspected foul-play involving American teenager Natalee Holloway isn't the only big crime story in Aruba these days. Known as a favorite transshipment for drug traffckers, the waters surrounding Aruba were the scene of a major drug interdiction operation by US officials.

United States federal agents seized 4,488 pounds of cocaine on board the Bolivian-flagged vessel M/V Sea Atlantic at approximately 150 nautical miles off the coast of Aruba. The seizure was part of Operation Caribbean Corridor, an investigative/law enforcement initiative by the Immigration and Customs Enforcement, the Federal Bureau of Investigation, and the US Coast Guard in the Caribbean Basin.


snipped...


http://www.renewamerica.us/columns/kouri/051019

"ICE and the other federal agencies in Operation Caribbean Corridor — DEA, FBI and the US Coast Guard — are working together, efficiently and intelligently to stop the transshipment of drugs and other contraband in the Caribbean Basin," according to officials from ICE.


Agents were on Aruba the night of 5/29...

Big bust on 6/5...Obviously this was already in the works! Were the SGs arrested to take the spotlight off of this joint venture and not J2K...so the dots would not be connected?

Would the operation have been jeopardized on 6/5 if the 'eyes in the sky' had told what they really saw?

The reason Joran is as cocky as he is...The big picture...

How did he get on a FBI Watch List anyway?



Eyes of God see from afar
If ye have truth, ask not how it was begotten

All of Shangoís information comes from the higher power, Olorum
Eyes of god may look from afar with great acuity (keeness of hearing, sight, intellect).
How can one hunt for lions with fishing gear?
Time is the enemy of the cowboys
and friend to the Arawaks, the Babylonians, and the hunted Jungle beasts

If a bird whispers an evil secret, the listener is not the sinner!
Not all messages come from a terrestrial origin.
Believe.
When olorum speaks, lesser gods listen
but do not ask how it is they hear


Shango Says:
June 30th, 2005 at 2:36 am
Casanostra is standing at a window looking onto Babylon

casanostra Says:
June 30th, 2005 at 2:35 am
I picked the casanostra as a name after doing much research as to their relationship to the island of Aruba and the drug trade, as well as other things that go along with it. Do some googling and find out for yourself. I think that Natalee is alive and that there are people on the island, and those that pass through the island that no one wants to mess with. There lies the predicament. You have a criminal element more powerful than the authorities and a chess game is being played. I think Joran is being protected, but he is also guilty of something. Not murder, but leading Natalee into something very sinister. I apologize if my speculation is in any way disrespectful to she or her family, but I find this very intriguing and it goes much deeper than what is implied on television.


Shango Says:
June 30th, 2005 at 2:35 am
How long does a cat hold a mouse before eating it? (interesting analogy)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on October 09, 2008, 08:27:06 AM
Operation Caribbean Corridor

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1190.msg176383#msg176383
 
Lively Case Discussion #635 6/5 - 6/6/2007 « Reply #692 on: June 06, 2007, 01:13:34 PM » 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
June 5, 2005, over two tons of cocaine seized.

Suspected foul-play involving American teenager Natalee Holloway isn't the only big crime story in Aruba these days. Known as a favorite transshipment for drug traffckers, the waters surrounding Aruba were the scene of a major drug interdiction operation by US officials.

United States federal agents seized 4,488 pounds of cocaine on board the Bolivian-flagged vessel M/V Sea Atlantic at approximately 150 nautical miles off the coast of Aruba. The seizure was part of Operation Caribbean Corridor, an investigative/law enforcement initiative by the Immigration and Customs Enforcement, the Federal Bureau of Investigation, and the US Coast Guard in the Caribbean Basin.


snipped...


http://www.renewamerica.us/columns/kouri/051019

"ICE and the other federal agencies in Operation Caribbean Corridor — DEA, FBI and the US Coast Guard — are working together, efficiently and intelligently to stop the transshipment of drugs and other contraband in the Caribbean Basin," according to officials from ICE.


Agents were on Aruba the night of 5/29...

Big bust on 6/5...Obviously this was already in the works! Were the SGs arrested to take the spotlight off of this joint venture and not J2K...so the dots would not be connected?

Would the operation have been jeopardized on 6/5 if the 'eyes in the sky' had told what they really saw?

The reason Joran is as cocky as he is...The big picture...

How did he get on a FBI Watch List anyway?

DirtyHand holds the key to the secrets of the SlanderFoot Clan
And who has the Elder SlanderFoot contacted in Babylon? (listening to elder)
Hidden whispers, plans for the future.
OMERTA    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omerta


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on October 09, 2008, 08:57:01 AM
COLOMBO...Do you know much about Norwin Meneses? Wonder if he is related to Andres...or maybe it is just a coincidence and Andres did take some pics he wasn't supposed to that night! TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on October 09, 2008, 09:13:39 AM
D'Mary...Same old press clip...no names? Has to be more on a bust that big! Will keep looking...


MIAMI - More than $126 million in cocaine will be offloaded from the Coast Guard Cutter Mohawk, at Coast Guard Sector Key West, Fla., and turned over to Immigration and Customs Enforcement and FBI officials, 2 p.m. today.

The drugs were seized in a joint effort between the Coast Guard, the Royal Netherlands Navy ship Van Speik and Joint Interagency Task Force South, June 25, 200 miles northwest of Santa Marta, Colombia.

Coast Guard Law Enforcement Detachment 105 and the crew of the Royal Netherlands Navy ship Van Speijk teamed up and seized almost two tons of cocaine that was hidden aboard the 200-foot cargo ship D’Mary. The San Diego-based Coast Guard team deployed aboard the Dutch naval ship found the contraband hidden in hidden compartments aboard D'Mary with assistance from a Royal Netherlands Navy Maritime Security Team.

The eight crewmembers of D’Mary and the 85 bales of contraband transferred to the Coast Guard cutter Mohawk will be turned over to Immigration and Customs Enforcement and FBI officials in Key West. The 85 bales of cocaine weighing almost 4,000 pounds have an import value of more than $126 million.

The cutter Mohawk is a 270-foot medium endurance cutter from Key West.

Editors Note: Media wanting to cover the event should contact the Seventh Coast Guard District Public Affairs office at 305-415-6683.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on October 09, 2008, 11:25:56 AM
  <...snippet...>


Shango Says:
June 30th, 2005 at 2:35 am
How long does a cat hold a mouse before eating it? (interesting analogy)

Cat is a type of lion. a mouse is a type of rat.

How long will a lion hold a whiskered rat before the rat pauses, thinks about it, then drinks a cup of gravy (takes the bribe).

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 6:12 pm
A whiskered rat will pause in repose, and then drink a cup of gravy.

So who's the whiskered rat, oduber or rudy cazootie?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on October 09, 2008, 11:48:05 AM
Read the Checkme posts...they are enlightening about Lorenzo and a few other things.  I always hint, but no one ever listens to me. LOL 

Quick read and out of context...

Sounds a lot like Simian...possibly cut from the same cloth!

Have never thought while reading Checkme's posts that "he" was a male...just the impression I got...now with dishes piled on the sink and reading the posts...I am more convinced than ever...Arlene?

I saw that I referred to Checkme as a "he", but I should have said he/she.  I agree with you. That also gives us so many choices as to who Checkme was. LOL


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on October 09, 2008, 11:51:15 AM
Finn...not hard to "disappear' something that was never there in the first place!

ah, I see (said the blind finn)

so ... Lorenzo was a red herring?

sim/checkme/all the early locals
were providing mis-information
when they started the Lorenzo angle?

arubagirl/native lingo/american in aruba/etc?

so then Peeps was telling the truth ...
and Karin Janssen musta been on the up and up
cuz checkme tried to link her to the "non-event"
at Lorenzo's

sheesh ... and I fell for every bit of it

I can't remember if/when I've misjudged a situation
this badly before



No, you didn't fall for anything...you are very astute.  If you notice there are some things that both Simian and Checkme said that were true.  It's like all the other stuff...a little truth here and a lot of BS mixed in. You have done just fine....better than me most days.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on October 09, 2008, 12:02:06 PM
Finn...not hard to "disappear' something that was never there in the first place!

ah, I see (said the blind finn)

so ... Lorenzo was a red herring?

sim/checkme/all the early locals
were providing mis-information
when they started the Lorenzo angle?

arubagirl/native lingo/american in aruba/etc?

so then Peeps was telling the truth ...
and Karin Janssen musta been on the up and up
cuz checkme tried to link her to the "non-event"
at Lorenzo's

sheesh ... and I fell for every bit of it

I can't remember if/when I've misjudged a situation
this badly before



No, you didn't fall for anything...you are very astute.  If you notice there are some things that both Simian and Checkme said that were true.  It's like all the other stuff...a little truth here and a lot of BS mixed in. You have done just fine....better than me most days.

Sim said many times that the Kalpoes don't know what happened...

Checkme said many times that Joran is innocent...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on October 09, 2008, 12:02:55 PM
DirtyHand holds the key to the secrets of the SlanderFoot Clan
And who has the Elder SlanderFoot contacted in Babylon? (listening to elder)
Hidden whispers, plans for the future.
OMERTA    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omerta

Let's try this:

Van der Straaten holds the key to the secrets of the van der Sloots.
And who has Paulus contacted in Holland?
Secret plans being made
Mafia connections.


Replace any name you want in there as Dirty Hand and see how it works.  Now, you have to ask yourself what did that poster know and how?  Interesting thoughts to say the least.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on October 09, 2008, 12:06:38 PM
Finn...not hard to "disappear' something that was never there in the first place!

ah, I see (said the blind finn)

so ... Lorenzo was a red herring?

sim/checkme/all the early locals
were providing mis-information
when they started the Lorenzo angle?

arubagirl/native lingo/american in aruba/etc?

so then Peeps was telling the truth ...
and Karin Janssen musta been on the up and up
cuz checkme tried to link her to the "non-event"
at Lorenzo's

sheesh ... and I fell for every bit of it

I can't remember if/when I've misjudged a situation
this badly before



No, you didn't fall for anything...you are very astute.  If you notice there are some things that both Simian and Checkme said that were true.  It's like all the other stuff...a little truth here and a lot of BS mixed in. You have done just fine....better than me most days.

Sim said many times that the Kalpoes don't know what happened...

Checkme said many times that Joran is innocent...


Have you noticed that all those cryptic posters made every effort to distance the 3 perps that were last seen with Natalee from the crime?  To believe they were all innocent you must believe that Natalee did indeed die as a result of an accident from too much alcohol and drugs of some kind.  You also have to believe that she was not given those drugs by any of the 3 perps.  In essence you must believe Joran's beach story. Yet...if it were only an accidental death by Natalee's own doing her body would be home now. 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on October 09, 2008, 02:09:34 PM
Finn...not hard to "disappear' something that was never there in the first place!

ah, I see (said the blind finn)

so ... Lorenzo was a red herring?

sim/checkme/all the early locals
were providing mis-information
when they started the Lorenzo angle?

arubagirl/native lingo/american in aruba/etc?

so then Peeps was telling the truth ...
and Karin Janssen musta been on the up and up
cuz checkme tried to link her to the "non-event"
at Lorenzo's

sheesh ... and I fell for every bit of it

I can't remember if/when I've misjudged a situation
this badly before



No, you didn't fall for anything...you are very astute.  If you notice there are some things that both Simian and Checkme said that were true.  It's like all the other stuff...a little truth here and a lot of BS mixed in. You have done just fine....better than me most days.

Sim said many times that the Kalpoes don't know what happened...

Checkme said many times that Joran is innocent...


Have you noticed that all those cryptic posters made every effort to distance the 3 perps that were last seen with Natalee from the crime?  To believe they were all innocent you must believe that Natalee did indeed die as a result of an accident from too much alcohol and drugs of some kind.  You also have to believe that she was not given those drugs by any of the 3 perps.  In essence you must believe Joran's beach story. Yet...if it were only an accidental death by Natalee's own doing her body would be home now. 

Yes. The three were last to be seen with Natalee.  Then something bad happened. Joran called his father at 2am. Joran lost a sneaker. Joran called his father at 4am. Then 10 days later they were questioned. Someone gave them all hush money. All but S. Croes that is, because the music man's song wasn't on the bill. And now they all walk free. 

So who footed the tab, and why? 

And why would S. Croes want to interject himself into the mix? I read he was at C&C that night. Also read he was asleep on his boat. Also read he drove some MBers back to the hotel from C&C. So what part is the truth?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on October 09, 2008, 06:49:29 PM
COLOMBO...Do you know much about Norwin Meneses? Wonder if he is related to Andres...or maybe it is just a coincidence and Andres did take some pics he wasn't supposed to that night! TIA



nothing on this......


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on October 09, 2008, 07:02:27 PM
DirtyHand holds the key to the secrets of the SlanderFoot Clan
And who has the Elder SlanderFoot contacted in Babylon? (listening to elder)
Hidden whispers, plans for the future.
OMERTA    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omerta

Let's try this:

Van der Straaten holds the key to the secrets of the van der Sloots.
And who has Paulus contacted in Holland?
Secret plans being made
Mafia connections.


Replace any name you want in there as Dirty Hand and see how it works.  Now, you have to ask yourself what did that poster know and how?  Interesting thoughts to say the least.


Shango Says:June 26th, 2005 at 9:19 pm
DirtyHand is not an Arawak

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:35 pm
DirtyHand is not an Arawak

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:42 pm
Arawaks hold singing card from babylon
There is also a trio. One Babylonian. 2 Shivas.
Arawaks can’t let babylonian Card sing because hand holding it dirty too. (Arawak dirty hand)

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:01 pm
Arawaks often go to play (the game) in small houses of Babylon with the offspring of the Elders

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:37 pm
DirtyHand is not a child of Babylon (child of Arawak?)

but the foundations of the house of babylon will shake
even harder if Arawak Dirty Hand is revealed (Babalu....DirtyHand=the link)

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:55 pm
Why do they leave the Maze open?
Why hasn’t an Arawak probed it’s fetid depths. (!!!???)

Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 12:11 am
All the Arawaks know the Maze which plays the poison songs (dirty Hand!)

Seek ye DirtyHand and the Fetid Arawak King who wishes to blame the babylonians (JVDS, K2) for the behaviour of lowly minions (elder, DirtyHand).




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Rob on October 10, 2008, 04:01:28 PM
Interesting post by AG...Nazi Murders????

arubagirl on June 11th, 2005 2:57 am
Local, I’ve never heard anyone getting life here. I think Nazi murders and the like have gotten life. Of course, It’s 3 am, and my brain isn’t in its top condition.


1940's... and the ship Antilla... among others.

The Nazis used Aruba as a point between Germany and Argentina... and points in between.

They could not use Deutsch Marks to pay for fuel for their ships, so they used gold taken from the teeth of concentration victims.

The Antilla was scuttled off the coat of Aruba.

Nazis were on Aruba.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on October 10, 2008, 06:52:18 PM
Read the Checkme posts...they are enlightening about Lorenzo and a few other things.  I always hint, but no one ever listens to me. LOL 

Quick read and out of context...

Sounds a lot like Simian...possibly cut from the same cloth!

Have never thought while reading Checkme's posts that "he" was a male...just the impression I got...now with dishes piled on the sink and reading the posts...I am more convinced than ever...Arlene?

I saw that I referred to Checkme as a "he", but I should have said he/she.  I agree with you. That also gives us so many choices as to who Checkme was. LOL



I don't know if he was male or female, but I did read the checkme thread the other day.  Checkme acted like a male and was hitting on allyinmiami.  Checkme spoke about how he/she had walked dates to their door after an evening.  He/she mentioned having several children and also having had a wild youth.  I initially thought that checkme was female, but by the end of the posts, I was convinced that he was male.  I could be wrong and checkme could have intentionally thrown us off.  Lala's - do you think that checkme is also our friend simian?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on October 10, 2008, 07:04:31 PM
Operation Caribbean Corridor

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1190.msg176383#msg176383
 
Lively Case Discussion #635 6/5 - 6/6/2007 « Reply #692 on: June 06, 2007, 01:13:34 PM » 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
June 5, 2005, over two tons of cocaine seized.

Suspected foul-play involving American teenager Natalee Holloway isn't the only big crime story in Aruba these days. Known as a favorite transshipment for drug traffckers, the waters surrounding Aruba were the scene of a major drug interdiction operation by US officials.

United States federal agents seized 4,488 pounds of cocaine on board the Bolivian-flagged vessel M/V Sea Atlantic at approximately 150 nautical miles off the coast of Aruba. The seizure was part of Operation Caribbean Corridor, an investigative/law enforcement initiative by the Immigration and Customs Enforcement, the Federal Bureau of Investigation, and the US Coast Guard in the Caribbean Basin.


snipped...


http://www.renewamerica.us/columns/kouri/051019

"ICE and the other federal agencies in Operation Caribbean Corridor — DEA, FBI and the US Coast Guard — are working together, efficiently and intelligently to stop the transshipment of drugs and other contraband in the Caribbean Basin," according to officials from ICE.


Agents were on Aruba the night of 5/29...

Big bust on 6/5...Obviously this was already in the works! Were the SGs arrested to take the spotlight off of this joint venture and not J2K...so the dots would not be connected?

Would the operation have been jeopardized on 6/5 if the 'eyes in the sky' had told what they really saw?

The reason Joran is as cocky as he is...The big picture...

How did he get on a FBI Watch List anyway?



Mum - about a month or so ago, our illusive friend was giving us information about the witness.  In one of his comments, he mentioned that there was some confusion about who had attended the porn party because there was also a drug bust going on.  Does anyone remember reading anything about an island drug bust the night that Natalee disappeared or was he possibly talking about the larger Caribbean Corridor drug bust that was about to take place?  I don't remember exactly where to find the post a month ago, but I think it was when we were first learning about Jossy's witness.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on October 10, 2008, 07:30:43 PM
Mum - you have been asking about the work history of Paulass.  I found this in some of my files.  I'm not sure if the link is the correct one.  I hope this helps.

On June 18th 2005 at approximately 18.30 hours, we interviewed as a witness the man who when asked for his name and details, stated to be, Paulus Antonius Petrus Johanna van der SLOOT born in the Netherlands on February 15th 1952, occupation judge (Joint Court) and living at ADDRESS REMOVED in Aruba for further information.

Boxtel

The lawyer Paul van der Sloot, that is detained in Aruba in the Natalee Holloway affair is here mostly known for his 20-year fight against the building of a motorway around Boxtel.

Boxtel

Paul van der Sloot is indeed member of a brass band and he goes all out during the carnival, but in Aruba he is mostly known as the serious lawyer for whom the principles of justice always and everywhere comes in first place. 

There was a huge disbelief in Aruba when he was arrested for his alleged involvement in disappearance of Natalee Holloway. Boxtel had experienced him as someone who would always persevere and had a thorough manner of working. 

Paul van der Sloot fought twenty years long (from 1973 until 1993) with local residents against the construction of a southern motorway, that had to be build partly over the estate of the Van der Sloot family. Paul van der Sloot stood his ground and fought civil servants and politicians that had proposed and produced the faulty plans for the new motorway in the Cousil of State. The motorway came eventually but it was not laid through the scenic valuable territory anymore but further away. 

In his birthplace Boxtel, van der Sloot was criticized a lot because while he was fighting the developments of the new motorway,  the dangerous traffic was still led trough Boxel and this was causing accidents and consequently was costing the lives of many people.  Van der Sloot was seen as a fault-finder that to prevent the motorway from being build on part of his land, was willing to sacrifice the lives of the youth who attended the schools in the vicinity of the local dangerous streets. Van der Sloot said later on that the criticism hurt him deeply.

Tilburg

Van der Sloot (53) got his legal education at the University of Tilburg in the seventies. He co-founded the Legal Faculty Association Tilburg and also the faculty newspaper ‘Nondejure'. After he finished his studies he did not went to work for the government, but assisted citizens that had conflicts with the government.  It was in that period in Arnhem, where he met a woman Anita (teacher of Artistic Formation) and it was also there were Joran and Valentijn, two of his three sons, were born.

New job

In 1991 Paul van der Sloot thought it was the time for a new job and he found one in Aruba where he was appointed for five year as a lawyer for the Aruban government. The ministers there were not impressed with his stance  „I always first try to find a compromise. By simply prosecuting nobody gets wiser.  If the authorities do something wrong I will always admit that. You must never interpret the facts differently then what they are.  I am convinced that on the long run this will give better results“, According to Van der Sloot in an interview ten years ago in the Brabants Dagblad. 

After a while Van der Sloot got a different assigment: the government wanted him to only set up contracts. Van der Sloot considered going back to The Netherlands, but he liked the small scale of Aruba and as it appeared he had enough possibilities to continue with his career.  He became cabinets leader for the public ministry and gave classes of Administrative Law at the local university. 

Judge

Two years ago Van der Sloot Ditch got the opportunity to become a judge.  With his background that meant that he had follow a training course of three years.  During that training period, he was appointed as a substitute judge in the Antillean court.  Van der Sloot completed the training period of a year in the Netherlands recently but he has not conducted a court(hearing) yet.


http://www.vandersloot.com/vandersloothistory/english/vandersloothistory9.htm


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on October 10, 2008, 07:37:34 PM
I found some information about the Cuntrera family and Aruba.

Aruban Connections
Five members of the Aruban Mansur Family, viz. Mr. Elias F. Mansur, Mrs. Damia M. de Cuba-Mansur, Mr. Luis E. Mansur, Mr. Miguel J. Mansur and Mrs. Sarah E. Arends-Mansur, have raised objections against general references in the following chapter to the Mansurs or the Mansur family. In their opinion these references may be understood as including them and thereby implicating them in alleged wrongdoing they have never committed.
The author is of the opinion that such references to a large family will not be misunderstood as including each and every member of the family. However, in case this opinion should prove incorrect, the author points out that he regrets such misunderstanding and that he did not intend said references to implicate all members of the family.
The Cuntrera-Caruana clan had links with another Aruban bank: the Interbank. The bank granted a credit to the Cuntrera company "Investeringen Tweehonderd en Tien" for 1.8 million Aruban guilders (approximately one million dollars). Why the Cuntreras who own several investment companies in Venezuela needed the loan is unknown.
One could speculate, however, this was a 'loan-back' operation to launder money. An amount of money is deposited cash at a bank and the bank lends the money back: now there is a clean and legitimate source of earnings. But there is no proof, no one ever looked really into the relations of the bank with the Sicilian mafiosi. The letter of credit was issued before the mafia connections of the clan became officially known on the island. This did not stop the bank from keeping the Cuntreras as clients. During Operation Wiseguy the undercover DEA agents were asked to wire money for a shipment of hashish on the account of Alfonso Cuntrera at the Interbank.
The Interbank is owned by the Mansur Family. If anybody owns 60 per cent of the island, it is this powerful family. The Mansurs made their fortune as cigarette manufacturers and in the import-export business. With a licence of Philip Morris, they are the major suppliers of Marlboros in the Caribbean basin. The Mansurs sponsor the best baseball team – Aruba's national sport – the Marlboro Red Tigers as well as the AVP party of Prime Minister Henny Eman. They own the biggest hotel and time-sharing complex, La Cabana, with its inevitable casino. And they have a couple of import-export businesses in the Free Trade Zone.
Jossy Mansur is the owner and chief editor of the biggest newspaper on the island, "Diario". "When I read an article in Diario, I know what will be the next action of the government,"says Hendrik Croes, adding that the Mansurs create a climate of fear and intimidation on Aruba. Their newspapers force others off the market. Furthermore, "their annual income is bigger than the yearly budget of the government. And you may guess how they make that kind of money”."Jossy Mansur is not impressed claiming that accusing people of drug trafficking and money laundering "has become a political tool to discredit them”." (75) Jossy Mansur acts as the family's mouthpiece, Ruben and the elder Alex are the patriarchs, and Elias 'Don' Mansur is the family's whizz-kid. Elias graduated at Notre Dame University, and was Minister of Economic Affairs in Eman's first cabinet. As representative for the Free Trade Zone entrepreneurs in a mixed Dutch-Aruban commission he has to recommend measures to tighten regulations in the FTZ to prevent money laundering and contraband, together with Dutch government officials. (76)
More and more the name Mansur turns up in money laundering cases. Alex and Eric Mansur were indicted in Puerto Rico in August 1994. (77) President Clinton specifically mentioned the Mansur's when he put Aruba on the list of Major Illicit Drug-transit Countries in December 1996. Although no member of the family was actually indicted in the La Costa case, the name Mansur is frequently is found in the files which were seized at Habibe's home on Aruba.
In Venezuela the Mansurs are implicated in money laundering with Santa Lopesierra, the Marlboro Man. Every month Santa 're-invests' 20 million dollar "with the help of a well-known entrepreneur called Mansur”." (78) Lopesierra is accused to have financed his election with the proceeds of drug trafficking and a car-theft ring. He is also reputed to be the man behind the Puerto Rico indictment. The activities of Mansur and Lopesierra, however, go well beyond this. They are accused of illegally funding the presidential campaign of Colombian president Ernesto Samper in 1994. Not only did Samper allegedly receive 6 million dollars from the Cali Cartel – an accusation he vehemently denies and ascribes to political machinations – it is said he also pocketed US$ 500,000 in cash offered by "a group from Philip Morris and Interbank”." (79)
The 'Philip Morris people' are Alex and Eric Mansur and a member of the Lopesierra Family (Santa Lopesierra belongs to the Samper faction in the Liberal Party). Samper tried to ease out of meeting the group, the story goes. He suggested that one of his campaign officials should pick up the cash and bring them to the office later for coffee. "No one gives that kind of money just for coffee. That's worth at least a breakfast," the campaign official replied.
The Mansur Family seems to have all the right connections in its corner of the Caribbean. Some Mansur's still have Venezuelan nationality, and they have interests in Maracaibo and Caracas, as well as in Punto Fijo and Coro, where the originally Lebanese Mansur Family had settled before moving to Aruba. Punto Fijo is situated on the Paraguaná peninsula in the North at the Golfo de Venezuela, which separates it from La Guajira. A ferry connects Punto Fijo to Aruba. Some 20 years ago, in 1974, a few Sicilians set up a fishing company in Punto Fijo called "Mediterranea Pesca". Among the shareholders: Leonardo and Giuseppe Caruana and Giuseppe Cuffaro. The company owned a sea-going vessel and Italian police suspected that "in view of the background of the owners it is probably a cover for drug trafficking”." (80)
Maybe the Mansurs and the Cuntrera-Caruana clan first met each other in this remote part of the world. Nobody knows. (81) But they certainly have met on Aruba, according to several insiders and law enforcement officers. Venezuelan police-officer Guillermo Jiménez states: "I know they are connected. I have sent files about bank transactions between the Mansur's and the Cuntrera's to Aruba. But documents about the Mansur's are kept secret over there." DEA-officer David Lorino is equally convinced and has connected the Cuntreras with Ruben Mansur. In his judgement, "Ruben Mansur is a major-league dope-peddler”." The DEA has the toll-records of the Cuntrera phones in Caracas. "They phoned Mansur's trading company and his place. They certainly talked to each other." What they said, Lorino doesn't know, since it is not permitted to tap phones in Venezuela.

http://www.tni.org/detail_page.phtml?page=archives_tblick_aruba


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on October 10, 2008, 07:42:40 PM
Hi SS...I will take a look for the post...I thought he mentioned a dirty FBI or was that DEA?

Have always thought something was going on and think it is weird that there is only a short blurb about the D'Mary which was a huge bust...Also the Mansur case dated back to 2005. Other activity in 2005 by ICE as well.

Williams was there on another matter according to what Private Eye was told and then we have an unidentified FBI? person, and from Joran's book an Embassy agent Smitt,sp?,...a US Customs lady at the jail??? Ms Akers at the van der Sloots!

Then we have Andres Meneses who could be related to Norwin Meneses from Costa Rica or who just liked to take pics of planes, both on the tarmac and in the air.

Joran was on a watch list...Daury Rodriguez?...An FBI protected witness...and lots of people inserting themselves into this case. Tommy Pooch for one, wasn't his buddy Chris supposed to be in the Witness Protection Program?

Then...We have all of COLOMBO'S 'eyes in the sky" "antenaes" and "birds on a wire"

Things that make you go Hmmmm!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on October 10, 2008, 07:47:13 PM
Mum - you have been asking about the work history of Paulass.  I found this in some of my files.  I'm not sure if the link is the correct one.  I hope this helps.

On June 18th 2005 at approximately 18.30 hours, we interviewed as a witness the man who when asked for his name and details, stated to be, Paulus Antonius Petrus Johanna van der SLOOT born in the Netherlands on February 15th 1952, occupation judge (Joint Court) and living at ADDRESS REMOVED in Aruba for further information.

Boxtel

The lawyer Paul van der Sloot, that is detained in Aruba in the Natalee Holloway affair is here mostly known for his 20-year fight against the building of a motorway around Boxtel.

Boxtel

Paul van der Sloot is indeed member of a brass band and he goes all out during the carnival, but in Aruba he is mostly known as the serious lawyer for whom the principles of justice always and everywhere comes in first place. 

There was a huge disbelief in Aruba when he was arrested for his alleged involvement in disappearance of Natalee Holloway. Boxtel had experienced him as someone who would always persevere and had a thorough manner of working. 

Paul van der Sloot fought twenty years long (from 1973 until 1993) with local residents against the construction of a southern motorway, that had to be build partly over the estate of the Van der Sloot family. Paul van der Sloot stood his ground and fought civil servants and politicians that had proposed and produced the faulty plans for the new motorway in the Cousil of State. The motorway came eventually but it was not laid through the scenic valuable territory anymore but further away. 

In his birthplace Boxtel, van der Sloot was criticized a lot because while he was fighting the developments of the new motorway,  the dangerous traffic was still led trough Boxel and this was causing accidents and consequently was costing the lives of many people.  Van der Sloot was seen as a fault-finder that to prevent the motorway from being build on part of his land, was willing to sacrifice the lives of the youth who attended the schools in the vicinity of the local dangerous streets. Van der Sloot said later on that the criticism hurt him deeply.

Tilburg

Van der Sloot (53) got his legal education at the University of Tilburg in the seventies. He co-founded the Legal Faculty Association Tilburg and also the faculty newspaper ‘Nondejure'. After he finished his studies he did not went to work for the government, but assisted citizens that had conflicts with the government.  It was in that period in Arnhem, where he met a woman Anita (teacher of Artistic Formation) and it was also there were Joran and Valentijn, two of his three sons, were born.

New job

In 1991 Paul van der Sloot thought it was the time for a new job and he found one in Aruba where he was appointed for five year as a lawyer for the Aruban government. The ministers there were not impressed with his stance  „I always first try to find a compromise. By simply prosecuting nobody gets wiser.  If the authorities do something wrong I will always admit that. You must never interpret the facts differently then what they are.  I am convinced that on the long run this will give better results“, According to Van der Sloot in an interview ten years ago in the Brabants Dagblad. 

After a while Van der Sloot got a different assigment: the government wanted him to only set up contracts. Van der Sloot considered going back to The Netherlands, but he liked the small scale of Aruba and as it appeared he had enough possibilities to continue with his career.  He became cabinets leader for the public ministry and gave classes of Administrative Law at the local university. 

Judge

Two years ago Van der Sloot Ditch got the opportunity to become a judge.  With his background that meant that he had follow a training course of three years.  During that training period, he was appointed as a substitute judge in the Antillean court.  Van der Sloot completed the training period of a year in the Netherlands recently but he has not conducted a court(hearing) yet.


http://www.vandersloot.com/vandersloothistory/english/vandersloothistory9.htm



LOL...Are you reading my mind...I logged on to ask Johan about Paulus "credentials".  that's the one that sounds like Anita could have written!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on October 10, 2008, 07:49:07 PM
SS...from what Johan and I went over a while back and some old posts I found, 1991 doesn't add up! Plus Anita said 1990 in the interview she did defending Lorenzo they don't know!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on October 10, 2008, 07:51:39 PM
Hi SS...I will take a look for the post...I thought he mentioned a dirty FBI or was that DEA?

Have always thought something was going on and think it is weird that there is only a short blurb about the D'Mary which was a huge bust...Also the Mansur case dated back to 2005. Other activity in 2005 by ICE as well.

Williams was there on another matter according to what Private Eye was told and then we have an unidentified FBI? person, and from Joran's book an Embassy agent Smitt,sp?,...a US Customs lady at the jail??? Ms Akers at the van der Sloots!

Then we have Andres Meneses who could be related to Norwin Meneses from Costa Rica or who just liked to take pics of planes, both on the tarmac and in the air.

Joran was on a watch list...Daury Rodriguez?...An FBI protected witness...and lots of people inserting themselves into this case. Tommy Pooch for one, wasn't his buddy Chris supposed to be in the Witness Protection Program?

Then...We have all of COLOMBO'S 'eyes in the sky" "antenaes" and "birds on a wire"

Things that make you go Hmmmm!





Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on October 10, 2008, 07:53:10 PM
SS...from what Johan and I went over a while back and some old posts I found, 1991 doesn't add up! Plus Anita said 1990 in the interview she did defending Lorenzo they don't know!


the Lorenzo that drove a polis car....at least on one occasion???? wonder whether they caught him carrying the keys


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on October 10, 2008, 07:58:02 PM
Interesting post by AG...Nazi Murders????

arubagirl on June 11th, 2005 2:57 am
Local, I’ve never heard anyone getting life here. I think Nazi murders and the like have gotten life. Of course, It’s 3 am, and my brain isn’t in its top condition.


1940's... and the ship Antilla... among others.

The Nazis used Aruba as a point between Germany and Argentina... and points in between.

They could not use Deutsch Marks to pay for fuel for their ships, so they used gold taken from the teeth of concentration victims.

The Antilla was scuttled off the coat of Aruba.

Nazis were on Aruba.

Thanks for the info, Rob.

Didn't know the Nazis were on Aruba.

So is that is where "Hitler's" sister came from? Hmmmm!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on October 10, 2008, 08:00:48 PM
A Smugglers' Paradise

The Intercon Financial Bank on Aruba is represented by the law-firm Croes & Wever. One of the partners is former Minister of Justice Hendrik Croes. The firm's trust-company Arulex was implicated in setting up the bank. ""Yes, we are involved with that bank"," says Croes. ""We still handle all their legal affairs, but we don't know anything of their financial accounts"." (70)

Hendrik Croes – a brother of the island's legendary leader, the late Betico Croes who guided Aruba to its semi-independent status in the Dutch realm – is one of the leading political figures on the island. He led several election campaigns for the MEP, now in the opposition. The Croes Family has been accused of ties with Cuntrera-Caruana. The Sicilian mafiosi payed for a trip of another brother, Rudy Croes (who succeeded Hendrik as Minister of Justice in a previous MEP government) as party secretary to a meeting of the Socialist International in Turkey. This has not been denied.
Paolo Cuntrera visited the island regularly despite his expulsion in 1988. The government opposed his legal actions for re-admittance. But Hendrik Croes has to admit the procedures were not stainless. A blundering government lawyer, an official who signed a residence permit 'by mistake', meant that "de facto" Paolo Cuntrera was able to circulate freely on the island.

According to Canadian police reports, in 1978, Pasquale Cuntrera owned the Holiday Inn Casino – although the registers indicated otherwise. ""At the start of 1980s the Cuntrera's were often at the Holiday Inn casino"," says a croupier. ""In 1989 they were there again, although they were ostensibly thrown of the island"."

DEA agent David Lorino, the case-officer in Operation Wiseguy, claims that ""when the Cuntrera's moved to Venezuela they carried some 15 to 30 million dollars with them, which were invested in hotels in Caracas, but also on Curaçao and Aruba"." 71 The DEA had used the Miami-based Italian-born Venezuelan business man Raffaele Bellizzi to contact Pasquale Cuntrera. Before 1983 Bellizzi owned a shipping-company, but that year it went bankrupt because of the debt-crises in Venezuela. ""He told us that his ships transported narcotics and money from Caracas to Aruba and Europe","says Lorino. As mentioned before Canadian investigations show that the clan used Aruba as a trampoline for cocaine to North America. (72)

According to Lorino, ""the names Cuntrera and Caruana were well known on the island"." Now nobody on Aruba wants to know that these gentle and well mannered Sicilians ever existed. ""Oh, but a lot of people knew them then","says Bianca de Mey, who set up the company "Investeringen Tweehonderd en Tien", which was the holding for a nightclub and pizzeria for the Cuntreras. The company now has nothing to do with them any more, she adds.

The Cuntrera's must have felt at home on Aruba. The island has been a smugglers' paradise, since colonial times, when it was used to evade the Spanish trade monopoly. Whatever disagreements Arubans may have – and they have a lot – this is something they readily admit. Even Prime Minister Eman acknowledges ""it is an island of smugglers ... For years Aruba was the most important coffee exporter, while there is no coffee-plant to be found on the island"." Aruba is also the biggest exporter of Philip Morris cigarettes and every imaginable kind of whisky. On Aruba it is all imported and exported according to the rules. What they do at the other side on the South American mainland is not the problem of the islanders. Legal trade or contraband, the difference is thin. ""A lot of families became very rich with this trade","says Eman.
http://riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2005/06/fourth_man.html


Colombo - If the mansurs are part of the Cuntrera group and the Croes family is part of the Cuntrera group, why are the Manusrs and the Cores in opposition to each other?  Wouldn't they be on the same team?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on October 10, 2008, 08:02:07 PM
Read the Checkme posts...they are enlightening about Lorenzo and a few other things.  I always hint, but no one ever listens to me. LOL 

Quick read and out of context...

Sounds a lot like Simian...possibly cut from the same cloth!

Have never thought while reading Checkme's posts that "he" was a male...just the impression I got...now with dishes piled on the sink and reading the posts...I am more convinced than ever...Arlene?

I saw that I referred to Checkme as a "he", but I should have said he/she.  I agree with you. That also gives us so many choices as to who Checkme was. LOL



I don't know if he was male or female, but I did read the checkme thread the other day.  Checkme acted like a male and was hitting on allyinmiami.  Checkme spoke about how he/she had walked dates to their door after an evening.  He/she mentioned having several children and also having had a wild youth.  I initially thought that checkme was female, but by the end of the posts, I was convinced that he was male.  I could be wrong and checkme could have intentionally thrown us off.  Lala's - do you think that checkme is also our friend simian?

Not Lala's and would love to hear what she thinks on this, also Finn!

I have always had to remind myself that Checkme was male, and after reading all the posts the other day, I was sure Checkme was female. ::MonkeyConfused::

 ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on October 10, 2008, 08:06:40 PM
SS...from what Johan and I went over a while back and some old posts I found, 1991 doesn't add up! Plus Anita said 1990 in the interview she did defending Lorenzo they don't know!


the Lorenzo that drove a polis car....at least on one occasion???? wonder whether they caught him carrying the keys

LOL COLOMBO,  I have read that there were 2 Lorenzo's, which is the one that drove the police car?

Please?....Thanks! ::MonkeyWaa::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on October 10, 2008, 08:12:33 PM
SS...from what Johan and I went over a while back and some old posts I found, 1991 doesn't add up! Plus Anita said 1990 in the interview she did defending Lorenzo they don't know!


the Lorenzo that drove a polis car....at least on one occasion???? wonder whether they caught him carrying the keys

LOL COLOMBO,  I have read that there were 2 Lorenzo's, which is the one that drove the police car?

Please?....Thanks! ::MonkeyWaa::

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2007/06/26/aruba-lorenzo-van-rijn-suspects-custody-extended-one-happy-drug-bust/#more-4392




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on October 10, 2008, 08:12:47 PM
I just found some interesting old posts.
http://riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2005/06/fourth_man.html

Lorenzo is the son of the deceased VW car dealer, seems to be very much related to drug use and possibly dealing. SGC, probably family name "Croes" (half of the island has that family name) is said to be "friends" with with JVDS. The 4th man is related to the Kalpoes.
Posted by: Checkme | Friday, June 17, 2005 at 01:09 PM

Lorenzo's dad is a member of the Aruban paramillitary, skilled at black ops, etc, during the unrest during the 1970s.
Posted by: Monty | Friday, June 17, 2005 at 01:32 PM

That must have been the Royal Marines then. They were the only ones trained for riot control at that time.
Posted by: Checkme | Friday, June 17, 2005 at 01:37 PM

I am a clerk at the station down here.. Steve Cruze's criminal file shows detailed history of assault/battery charges against women (and one unlawful touching) all of them dropped though with help of a clever Aruban lawyer, Barton Van Tripp. His family is very wealthy, owns the newspaper down here.. these three guys were 'runners' for Cruze so maybe that's why they aren't singing.
Posted by: Gill | Friday, June 17, 2005 at 01:55 PM

(I recently found some information that indicates the father of Steve Croes might be the owner of the newspaper on Curacao)

Steve Croes - has flight time with Air Aruba:
http://www.arubaaviation.com/fqpilots.html
Pilot#24
A prior poster noted the island has many Croes - so this could simply be a relative. Also note that the prosecutor spokesperson's last name is, guess what - CROES. Isn't that interesting.
Posted by: paul | Friday, June 17, 2005 at 02:05 PM

The think nobody understands about Aruba is that there are no secrets here. Everybody knows everything.
Posted by: Checkme | Friday, June 17, 2005 at 02:10 PM

I did a search on Steve Croes and found his pic posted here http://216.55.182.166/emanonsc. Also found a Steve Croes listed as a pilot in Aruba. Also found a Steve Croes who had taken Emergency Medical Technician (EMT)training. He certainly seems to have some skills which could be useful to a person involved in such scenarios as I can imagine the three arrested were involved in regarding Natalee.
Posted by: kudzu | Friday, June 17, 2005 at 02:12 PM









Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on October 10, 2008, 08:14:53 PM
Mum:

sorry-
http://scaredmonkeys.com/2007/06/25/aruba-why-arrest-lorenzo-van-rijn-now-is-there-a-greater-reason/#more-4387


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on October 10, 2008, 08:15:55 PM
A Smugglers' Paradise

The Intercon Financial Bank on Aruba is represented by the law-firm Croes & Wever. One of the partners is former Minister of Justice Hendrik Croes. The firm's trust-company Arulex was implicated in setting up the bank. ""Yes, we are involved with that bank"," says Croes. ""We still handle all their legal affairs, but we don't know anything of their financial accounts"." (70)

Hendrik Croes – a brother of the island's legendary leader, the late Betico Croes who guided Aruba to its semi-independent status in the Dutch realm – is one of the leading political figures on the island. He led several election campaigns for the MEP, now in the opposition. The Croes Family has been accused of ties with Cuntrera-Caruana. The Sicilian mafiosi payed for a trip of another brother, Rudy Croes (who succeeded Hendrik as Minister of Justice in a previous MEP government) as party secretary to a meeting of the Socialist International in Turkey. This has not been denied.
Paolo Cuntrera visited the island regularly despite his expulsion in 1988. The government opposed his legal actions for re-admittance. But Hendrik Croes has to admit the procedures were not stainless. A blundering government lawyer, an official who signed a residence permit 'by mistake', meant that "de facto" Paolo Cuntrera was able to circulate freely on the island.

According to Canadian police reports, in 1978, Pasquale Cuntrera owned the Holiday Inn Casino – although the registers indicated otherwise. ""At the start of 1980s the Cuntrera's were often at the Holiday Inn casino"," says a croupier. ""In 1989 they were there again, although they were ostensibly thrown of the island"."

DEA agent David Lorino, the case-officer in Operation Wiseguy, claims that ""when the Cuntrera's moved to Venezuela they carried some 15 to 30 million dollars with them, which were invested in hotels in Caracas, but also on Curaçao and Aruba"." 71 The DEA had used the Miami-based Italian-born Venezuelan business man Raffaele Bellizzi to contact Pasquale Cuntrera. Before 1983 Bellizzi owned a shipping-company, but that year it went bankrupt because of the debt-crises in Venezuela. ""He told us that his ships transported narcotics and money from Caracas to Aruba and Europe","says Lorino. As mentioned before Canadian investigations show that the clan used Aruba as a trampoline for cocaine to North America. (72)

According to Lorino, ""the names Cuntrera and Caruana were well known on the island"." Now nobody on Aruba wants to know that these gentle and well mannered Sicilians ever existed. ""Oh, but a lot of people knew them then","says Bianca de Mey, who set up the company "Investeringen Tweehonderd en Tien", which was the holding for a nightclub and pizzeria for the Cuntreras. The company now has nothing to do with them any more, she adds.

The Cuntrera's must have felt at home on Aruba. The island has been a smugglers' paradise, since colonial times, when it was used to evade the Spanish trade monopoly. Whatever disagreements Arubans may have – and they have a lot – this is something they readily admit. Even Prime Minister Eman acknowledges ""it is an island of smugglers ... For years Aruba was the most important coffee exporter, while there is no coffee-plant to be found on the island"." Aruba is also the biggest exporter of Philip Morris cigarettes and every imaginable kind of whisky. On Aruba it is all imported and exported according to the rules. What they do at the other side on the South American mainland is not the problem of the islanders. Legal trade or contraband, the difference is thin. ""A lot of families became very rich with this trade","says Eman.
http://riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2005/06/fourth_man.html


Colombo - If the mansurs are part of the Cuntrera group and the Croes family is part of the Cuntrera group, why are the Manusrs and the Cores in opposition to each other?  Wouldn't they be on the same team?


About your last 2 sentences to Colombo, perhaps I can answer:

Sumerians do NOT like Babylonian intrusion...that means less $profit for the Sumerians...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on October 10, 2008, 08:18:17 PM
Hi SS...I will take a look for the post...I thought he mentioned a dirty FBI or was that DEA?

Have always thought something was going on and think it is weird that there is only a short blurb about the D'Mary which was a huge bust...Also the Mansur case dated back to 2005. Other activity in 2005 by ICE as well.

Williams was there on another matter according to what Private Eye was told and then we have an unidentified FBI? person, and from Joran's book an Embassy agent Smitt,sp?,...a US Customs lady at the jail??? Ms Akers at the van der Sloots!

Then we have Andres Meneses who could be related to Norwin Meneses from Costa Rica or who just liked to take pics of planes, both on the tarmac and in the air.

Joran was on a watch list...Daury Rodriguez?...An FBI protected witness...and lots of people inserting themselves into this case. Tommy Pooch for one, wasn't his buddy Chris supposed to be in the Witness Protection Program?

Then...We have all of COLOMBO'S 'eyes in the sky" "antenaes" and "birds on a wire"

Things that make you go Hmmmm!









I'm confused.  ::MonkeyConfused::  Is this Kermit's dinner or a picture of the FBI guy?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on October 10, 2008, 08:19:16 PM
Hi SS...I will take a look for the post...I thought he mentioned a dirty FBI or was that DEA?

Have always thought something was going on and think it is weird that there is only a short blurb about the D'Mary which was a huge bust...Also the Mansur case dated back to 2005. Other activity in 2005 by ICE as well.

Williams was there on another matter according to what Private Eye was told and then we have an unidentified FBI? person, and from Joran's book an Embassy agent Smitt,sp?,...a US Customs lady at the jail??? Ms Akers at the van der Sloots!

Then we have Andres Meneses who could be related to Norwin Meneses from Costa Rica or who just liked to take pics of planes, both on the tarmac and in the air.

Joran was on a watch list...Daury Rodriguez?...An FBI protected witness...and lots of people inserting themselves into this case. Tommy Pooch for one, wasn't his buddy Chris supposed to be in the Witness Protection Program?

Then...We have all of COLOMBO'S 'eyes in the sky" "antenaes" and "birds on a wire"

Things that make you go Hmmmm!









I'm confused.  ::MonkeyConfused::  Is this Kermit's dinner or a picture of the FBI guy?


Miami Vice-the Bug Van
Zeto/Sweitek


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on October 10, 2008, 08:19:44 PM
needs to be bumped



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Poochy on October 10, 2008, 08:26:51 PM
DirtyHand holds the key to the secrets of the SlanderFoot Clan
And who has the Elder SlanderFoot contacted in Babylon? (listening to elder)
Hidden whispers, plans for the future.
OMERTA    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omerta

Let's try this:

Van der Straaten holds the key to the secrets of the van der Sloots.
And who has Paulus contacted in Holland?
Secret plans being made
Mafia connections.


Replace any name you want in there as Dirty Hand and see how it works.  Now, you have to ask yourself what did that poster know and how?  Interesting thoughts to say the least.


Shango Says:June 26th, 2005 at 9:19 pm
DirtyHand is not an Arawak

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:35 pm
DirtyHand is not an Arawak

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:42 pm
Arawaks hold singing card from babylon
There is also a trio. One Babylonian. 2 Shivas.
Arawaks can’t let babylonian Card sing because hand holding it dirty too. (Arawak dirty hand)

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:01 pm
Arawaks often go to play (the game) in small houses of Babylon with the offspring of the Elders

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:37 pm
DirtyHand is not a child of Babylon (child of Arawak?)

but the foundations of the house of babylon will shake
even harder if Arawak Dirty Hand is revealed (Babalu....DirtyHand=the link)

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:55 pm
Why do they leave the Maze open?
Why hasn’t an Arawak probed it’s fetid depths. (!!!???)

Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 12:11 am
All the Arawaks know the Maze which plays the poison songs (dirty Hand!)

Seek ye DirtyHand and the Fetid Arawak King who wishes to blame the babylonians (JVDS, K2) for the behaviour of lowly minions (elder, DirtyHand).

Colombo - definition of 'Fetid"

fetid
One entry found.

Main Entry: fet·id 
Pronunciation: \ˈfe-təd, especially British ˈfē-tid\
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English, from Latin foetidus, from foetēre to stink
Date: 15th century
: having a heavy offensive smell <a fetid swamp>

—Synonyms - malodorous, smelly, noisome.

...why he leaves all his dead dogs there...



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on October 10, 2008, 08:30:30 PM
SS...from what Johan and I went over a while back and some old posts I found, 1991 doesn't add up! Plus Anita said 1990 in the interview she did defending Lorenzo they don't know!


the Lorenzo that drove a polis car....at least on one occasion???? wonder whether they caught him carrying the keys

LOL COLOMBO,  I have read that there were 2 Lorenzo's, which is the one that drove the police car?

Please?....Thanks! ::MonkeyWaa::

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2007/06/26/aruba-lorenzo-van-rijn-suspects-custody-extended-one-happy-drug-bust/#more-4392




LOL...I am confused...do you think that was Lorenzo?



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on October 10, 2008, 08:37:07 PM
SS...Two Steve Croes...Of Course...

 ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyHaHa::

Somebody got paid big bucks to think all this out... ::MonkeyHaHa::



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: COLOMBO on October 10, 2008, 08:58:41 PM
SS...from what Johan and I went over a while back and some old posts I found, 1991 doesn't add up! Plus Anita said 1990 in the interview she did defending Lorenzo they don't know!


the Lorenzo that drove a polis car....at least on one occasion???? wonder whether they caught him carrying the keys

LOL COLOMBO,  I have read that there were 2 Lorenzo's, which is the one that drove the police car?

Please?....Thanks! ::MonkeyWaa::

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2007/06/26/aruba-lorenzo-van-rijn-suspects-custody-extended-one-happy-drug-bust/#more-4392




LOL...I am confused...do you think that was Lorenzo?



the one that drove the polis car


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on October 10, 2008, 09:10:29 PM
Checkme sounds like a male to me....

757. Checkme   
Should NH’s family face the fact that she may never be recoverd? Does she have info so that she knows she will be recovered? Or are we seeing the process of denial-anger-acceptance? I think the boyz did not do anything. I am happy I always dropped my dates off at their door and checked that they went in OK. Something like this could have happened to me the same. I do believe she was nabbed before she reached her hotel room. Swimming out of the question, current does not take you away at palm beach… But after she was nabbed by bad adults, possibly even people here for the soul festival, “disposed off” at the north coast. I can also believe that the boyz saw how NH was nabbed but left her anyhow, lied about it etc.

729. Checkme   
I consider myself pretty intelligent and so do those around me. But I have done some very stupid things that could have gotten me hurt or killed. I have just been very lucky. At 18, I felt nothing could hurt me. Especially not right after graduating from high school. I am not saying anything about NH. Just saying that this could have happened to me, having nothing to do with, or maybe because of, my (supposedly) intelligent brain.

699. Checkme   
Sorry for the delay.
Lucy, you did get the name right this time (van Rijn versus van Sijn). He is absoluteley not related to the vdSloots. I read this too some places and it made me lol.
I guess it’s the nature of people but the junk that gets thrown around in these rooms is incredible. The moderators are doing a fine job keeping it all in check (no pun intended)
Many people seem to think this has to do with sex, rape and slavery. I just don’t think so.
Have you checked back with “blogger info”? He talked about and agency called ICE and agents going through venezuela…

659. Checkme   
Vanessa, please, don’t act like that, how old are you? Why are you asking me if I am male/female? You have not been paying attention. Ask CRS, he/she will be able to tell you my gender. Where are you from? Do you really want to know about this area of the world? Why are you reading these blogs? How come you know you care for me?

652. Checkme   
Vanessa,
Backround info, it is scary, on one hand, that persons whom I do not know, get to know me while I am online, on the other hand I sense some distrust. Knowing that the topic we talk about involves a young woman and an entire nation with peoples there is no doubt in my mind that we have onlookers that have agendas. However, I cannot help but share what I hear, see and know so that the world may know the Truth. That’s all. I have shared a couple of times that what happened to Joran could have happened to me many times, adolescent innocence, in a grown up world.

568. Checkme   
I came here around the same time, 1969. Things have changed indeed.

570. Checkme   
Sigur cu si, playa a keda playa.
My first girlfriend (Colombiana) also went to school in Massachusetts… many moons ago.

Checkme Says:
June 24th, 2005 at 9:11 pm
Ally, don’t. I would not want my woman to talk like that to another man.

233. Checkme   
Ally, how was your bday? Sounds like you had a very fun time… 32 did you say?
Jun 27, 1:26 PM —

217. Checkme   
Checkme is a man, who does not want to teach Ally’s man anything. Ally should take a vacation to Aruba, alone. But considering the topic we are all talking about I think that is suggestion in vain. LOL…

169. Checkme   
Simian does not always say the Truth. The double makes it harder to read him sometimes.
Jun 28, 1:44 PM —

150. Checkme   
Hey you ally, read your posts. Missed you too. Now I have to worry every damn day you go to work???



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on October 10, 2008, 09:38:39 PM
Lala's - this is for you   ::MonkeyWink::  allyinmiami knew all of them.  I wonder if simian, merian ernest, and checkme were all Armin??? 

374. ydave   
Elaine said it all. Paul Van Der Sloot knows the aruban justice system, and believes he can beat it. The Kalpoes and Steve Croes believed in him, and son Joran continues to believe in him. Mother VDS believe her husband want to beat the system. Checkme and simian are Paul VDS spokepersons.


342. Checkme   
Simian,
I cannot agree yet that they have hard evidence against PvdS and that that is the reason for arresting him. There could very well be holes, conflicts, suspucions and accusations against him. It seems that the results are in from the Dutch forensics (why so very late). Possibly comparing DNA samples with NH parents. vdS could be covering something and the hard evidence could show this, but this will still not implicate a criminal act. It would have to be cells from NH in that case.
Did anybody notice that “all of a sudden” the MSM is using the words “kidnap” more often?
The joke about the arrest is not funny.

354. Simian   
The Kalpoes know nothing. They will remain locked up for lying and obstructing the investigation.
Did I say something about a blue van? I don’t think so.
However, I feel CheckMe is jumping on my bandwagon. E ta OK swa…

359. ydave   
Checkme and simian coordinated their story about blue van, and their arrival on this forum, to shift the focus on something else.
But Paul and Joran van der Sloot, and the Kalpoes know where Natalee is. And pressure will be exerted on them to tell the truth.

296. Checkme   
Lucy, could be, Simian’s posts have been strange lately… I have been lucky I have not been cloned

250. Babalú   
Regalee
Tomorrow the’ll let Steve go and nothing much will happen. But the day after tomorrow, they’ll bring again whom Simian calls suspect #5, which I think is the Lorenzo guy, which by the way, Checkme has been talking about him for a long time now. I think he is the guy in the blue van with the huge speakers on top. On Shango’s terms, I dont’t know if he ’s a Babylonian, an Arawak or a Sumerian. He’s probably a Fu__ing A– Hole.

Simian Says:
June 28th, 2005 at 2:01 am
The Simian is getting out. Knows Shango, knows Shock me, knows Checkme. Do not underestimate the power of the ping. Shango is a dumb copycat. Maybe the Simian should place a call on you. Get you 8 days with a hole to take a dump in. Complementary peanut butter on stale bread for you, you fool. The Simian is angry. Over and out.

190. Simian   
The Simian doesn’t make predictions. Only gives the group information ahead of time. Predictions are for fools. This is the Simian.
(I thought he told VMS that he just reported only what was already in the news!

169. Checkme   
Simian does not always say the Truth. The double makes it harder to read him sometimes.

260. ydave   
Gare du Nord is Checkme.

50. ydave   
New girl and Checkme are afraid of the truth, because it involves Paulus and Joran VDS.
They are part of the team sent to distract readers and true Monkeys.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Magnolia on October 10, 2008, 09:55:34 PM
Well, for what it's worth, I have always thought Checkme was
Charles Croes.
I know that Lalas will correct me, but his writing style and old
maidishness figure right into that thought process, as well as
his protecting Joran.
 ::MonkeyConfused::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on October 11, 2008, 06:12:32 AM
Weren’t they all protecting Joran?

Seems the cast is getting bigger…What about Shock, Gordo and Alcazar?

One knew Simian would come back in another form, which he did a couple of hours later as Mono. Shango saying "Goodbye" wasn't that final to me, but one poster sure read it that way!

Also seems to be confusion over whether a few of them were male or female? Simian, Checkme … and even Shango has been questioned here as being a bitchy female.

Then we have posters like Native Lingo mimicking Charles’s post of June 2nd, think there are one or two others as well that copied him.

Maybe one of the scriptwriters was female…or just old-maidish!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on October 12, 2008, 09:01:44 AM
Weren’t they all protecting Joran?

Seems the cast is getting bigger…What about Shock, Gordo and Alcazar?

One knew Simian would come back in another form, which he did a couple of hours later as Mono. Shango saying "Goodbye" wasn't that final to me, but one poster sure read it that way!

Also seems to be confusion over whether a few of them were male or female? Simian, Checkme … and even Shango has been questioned here as being a bitchy female.

Then we have posters like Native Lingo mimicking Charles’s post of June 2nd, think there are one or two others as well that copied him.

Maybe one of the scriptwriters was female…or just old-maidish!




 ::MonkeyCool::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: sharon on October 12, 2008, 10:26:36 AM
Lala's & Mum   as I was snooping around for Florida 'information sites' this one just caught my eye  ::MonkeyHaHa::  Something to do with the 'title'  ::MonkeyTongue::


https://www.searchsystems.net/link_login.php

Search United States Public Records by State / Florida Public Records
Attorneys - Elder Law
Description: Search the membership directory of the Academy of Florida Elder Law Attorneys by name, company, an/or city.

 ::MonkeyCool::

 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Lala'sMom on October 12, 2008, 07:58:54 PM
Lala's & Mum   as I was snooping around for Florida 'information sites' this one just caught my eye  ::MonkeyHaHa::  Something to do with the 'title'  ::MonkeyTongue::


https://www.searchsystems.net/link_login.php

Search United States Public Records by State / Florida Public Records
Attorneys - Elder Law
Description: Search the membership directory of the Academy of Florida Elder Law Attorneys by name, company, an/or city.

 ::MonkeyCool::

 


Interesting what you can find that rings a bell, isn't it?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: vms on October 14, 2008, 07:18:48 AM
Reviewing Freddy...again...

First one with Freddy and Deepak footage at C&C's. The other two after he was arrested.



New charges for Joran?
Aug. 23: Beth Holloway Twitty and former FBI Profiler Clint Van Zandt talk to Joe about the desperate search for answers about what happened the night Natalee Holloway disappeared. While prime suspect Joran Van der Sloot remains in jail several women have reportedly come forward claiming that they have been drugged and sexually assaulted by Joran in the past. Beth, Clint, and Joe tell you what this could mean to the Natalee investigation.
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a398/vms58/DeepakandFreddy.jpg) (http://video.msn.com/video.aspx?mkt=en-US&vid=8e4466db-ae38-4170-82f4-942a3beca002)


Aruba arrests
Aug. 26: MSNBC-TV's Lisa Daniels discusses the arrest of Deepak and Satish Kalpoe and a young man named Freddy A with a panel. The Kalpoes are brought in by the prosecutor on suspicion of rape and murder in connection with the disappearance of Natalee Holloway.
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a398/vms58/Freddy-1.jpg) (http://video.msn.com/video.aspx?mkt=en-US&vid=3da83b8b-697a-4bf0-9386-26cba307088a)



Aruba arrests
Aug. 26: Aruban authorities re-arrested Deepak and Satish Kalpoe on suspicion of rape and murder in the Holloway case. MSNBC-TV's Dan Abrams talks to Natalee's father, Aruban attorneys and journalists.

Link (http://video.msn.com/video.aspx?mkt=en-US&vid=f57ac3a9-cd46-4f1c-bd69-fa6909c39dec)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: vms on October 14, 2008, 07:48:30 AM
Another video discussing Freddy's arrest.

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a398/vms58/th_aug30k2squestionedagain.jpg) (http://s15.photobucket.com/albums/a398/vms58/?action=view&current=aug30k2squestionedagain.flv)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on October 14, 2008, 08:49:56 AM
VMS - do you think that the confusion about Freddy's name was because of media errors in the very beginning, or do you think that it was a concerted effort by the higher powers to protect him?  I do think that there is a Freddy Zedan with a sister named Natasha Zedan, but is he the person that we have been led to believe he is?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: vms on October 14, 2008, 08:53:00 AM
Steve Croes' Mother:

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a398/vms58/SteveCroesMother.jpg) (http://s15.photobucket.com/albums/a398/vms58/?action=view&current=2017june27geraldo-1.flv)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on October 14, 2008, 08:55:34 AM
This is Freddy Zedan and Natasha Zedan with the man who I believe is the mysterious Mr. Zedan before he "died".  Julia Renfro was part of the information about Freddy's father being ill and dying.  Was this part of her disinformation campaign?  From what we have learned Freddy was connected to Julia with the pornography videos.  Was Julia protecting him?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: vms on October 14, 2008, 08:59:31 AM
VMS - do you think that the confusion about Freddy's name was because of media errors in the very beginning, or do you think that it was a concerted effort by the higher powers to protect him?  I do think that there is a Freddy Zedan with a sister named Natasha Zedan, but is he the person that we have been led to believe he is?

Well IMO, the media made a lot of errors in the beginning in the push and/or competition to be the first to get the reports on air. I think Freddy is the same Freddy from the beginning but I also believe the Steve Croes shown and reported in the media was the one arrested and not someone else...if that makes sense...:lol:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on October 14, 2008, 09:04:15 AM
Steve Croes' Mother:

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a398/vms58/SteveCroesMother.jpg) (http://s15.photobucket.com/albums/a398/vms58/?action=view&current=2017june27geraldo-1.flv)



I can see a resemblance in the face. Do we have a picture of Steve's father?  Our elusive friend found some information in a government data base that said Steve's father was Hendrick Croes.  I think we have pretty much determined that this Hendrick Croes is not the brother of Rudy, but could be a relative.  We have also heard that Steve's father owns the newspaper on Curacao and/or is some kind of a government official or lawyer.  Do we have any information on this guy.  Steve has been a pretty high profile suspect for three and a half years, but his father is a mystery.  Why has he been protected from the media?  I think we also finally figured out that Rufo's wife is the sister of Steve's father, because Steve's grandparents also have the last name Croes.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: vms on October 14, 2008, 09:07:12 AM
This is Freddy Zedan and Natasha Zedan with the man who I believe is the mysterious Mr. Zedan before he "died".  Julia Renfro was part of the information about Freddy's father being ill and dying.  Was this part of her disinformation campaign?  From what we have learned Freddy was connected to Julia with the pornography videos.  Was Julia protecting him?

I dunno, SS. That was from the bartender contest in November of 2006. That guy could just be another bartender at the Marriott...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: SS on October 14, 2008, 09:16:17 AM
VMS - the batender photograph was different.  It was a group shot.  This photograph was found when I visited Natasha once.  The bartender photograph is below.

An additional thought - wasn't Steve Croes originally implicated as the DJ in Amy Bradley's disappearance?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: vms on October 14, 2008, 09:21:53 AM
VMS - the batender photograph was different.  It was a group shot.  This photograph was found when I visited Natasha once.  The bartender photograph is below.

An additional thought - wasn't Steve Croes originally implicated as the DJ in Amy Bradley's disappearance?

I am positive the photo you posted first with Freddy and Natasha is from the Bartender Contest at the Marriott Hotel, November 17, 2006. Pita found it at the time and posted it with the link which (of course  :roll:) no longer works...

There were rumors about Steve Croes and Amy Bradley. IIRC, Amy's mother discounted those rumors...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: MumInOhio on October 14, 2008, 09:38:24 AM
From Finn's Forgot we Knew thread...Info or misinfo...Arends was mentioned  before this...and this had nothing to do with Natalee's case ::MonkeyWink::

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2768.0


Re: We Forgot We Knew
« Reply #7 on: April 03, 2008, 07:29:49 AM »

5:44 pm
bondia: Freddy Z.

Freddy's middle name is Alexander and it is customary to never use somebody’s last name in Aruba until they have been charged.

The rules were obviously broken in Natalee's case as it has been a free for all of accusations since the Beginning


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: vms on October 14, 2008, 11:53:01 AM
From Finn's Forgot we Knew thread...Info or misinfo...Arends was mentioned  before this...and this had nothing to do with Natalee's case ::MonkeyWink::

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2768.0


Re: We Forgot We Knew
« Reply #7 on: April 03, 2008, 07:29:49 AM »

5:44 pm
bondia: Freddy Z.

Freddy's middle name is Alexander and it is customary to never use somebody’s last name in Aruba until they have been charged.

The rules were obviously broken in Natalee's case as it has been a free for all of accusations since the Beginning

Huh? You lost me... :lol:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Nut44x4 on October 14, 2008, 03:39:40 PM
(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub4/tink-lock100.gif)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Nut44x4 on October 14, 2008, 03:52:09 PM
Checkme sounds like a male to me....

757. Checkme   
Should NH’s family face the fact that she may never be recoverd? Does she have info so that she knows she will be recovered? Or are we seeing the process of denial-anger-acceptance? I think the boyz did not do anything. I am happy I always dropped my dates off at their door and checked that they went in OK. Something like this could have happened to me the same. I do believe she was nabbed before she reached her hotel room. Swimming out of the question, current does not take you away at palm beach… But after she was nabbed by bad adults, possibly even people here for the soul festival, “disposed off” at the north coast. I can also believe that the boyz saw how NH was nabbed but left her anyhow, lied about it etc.

729. Checkme   
I consider myself pretty intelligent and so do those around me. But I have done some very stupid things that could have gotten me hurt or killed. I have just been very lucky. At 18, I felt nothing could hurt me. Especially not right after graduating from high school. I am not saying anything about NH. Just saying that this could have happened to me, having nothing to do with, or maybe because of, my (supposedly) intelligent brain.

699. Checkme   
Sorry for the delay.
Lucy, you did get the name right this time (van Rijn versus van Sijn). He is absoluteley not related to the vdSloots. I read this too some places and it made me lol.
I guess it’s the nature of people but the junk that gets thrown around in these rooms is incredible. The moderators are doing a fine job keeping it all in check (no pun intended)
Many people seem to think this has to do with sex, rape and slavery. I just don’t think so.
Have you checked back with “blogger info”? He talked about and agency called ICE and agents going through venezuela…

659. Checkme   
Vanessa, please, don’t act like that, how old are you? Why are you asking me if I am male/female? You have not been paying attention. Ask CRS, he/she will be able to tell you my gender. Where are you from? Do you really want to know about this area of the world? Why are you reading these blogs? How come you know you care for me?

652. Checkme   
Vanessa,
Backround info, it is scary, on one hand, that persons whom I do not know, get to know me while I am online, on the other hand I sense some distrust. Knowing that the topic we talk about involves a young woman and an entire nation with peoples there is no doubt in my mind that we have onlookers that have agendas. However, I cannot help but share what I hear, see and know so that the world may know the Truth. That’s all. I have shared a couple of times that what happened to Joran could have happened to me many times, adolescent innocence, in a grown up world.

568. Checkme   
I came here around the same time, 1969. Things have changed indeed.

570. Checkme   
Sigur cu si, playa a keda playa.
My first girlfriend (Colombiana) also went to school in Massachusetts… many moons ago.

Checkme Says:
June 24th, 2005 at 9:11 pm
Ally, don’t. I would not want my woman to talk like that to another man.

233. Checkme   
Ally, how was your bday? Sounds like you had a very fun time… 32 did you say?
Jun 27, 1:26 PM —

217. Checkme   
Checkme is a man, who does not want to teach Ally’s man anything. Ally should take a vacation to Aruba, alone. But considering the topic we are all talking about I think that is suggestion in vain. LOL…

169. Checkme   
Simian does not always say the Truth. The double makes it harder to read him sometimes.
Jun 28, 1:44 PM —

150. Checkme   
Hey you ally, read your posts. Missed you too. Now I have to worry every damn day you go to work???



Me too SS, imo checkme is male.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
Post by: Nut44x4 on October 14, 2008, 04:39:05 PM
(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d118/Sanddrops/Scared%20Monkeys/LOCKED.gif)

Please move to Shango/Simian # 5
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=3697.msg499657#msg499657

DOING THIS EARLY......gonna be a busy night!!