Scared Monkeys Discussion Forum

Just for fun I started looking at some of Nativelingo's old front page posts from June 2005.  These aren't all of them but some that I found of interest:

Thanks, Klaas for those FP posts....I started to look at the LCD and was not very good at the search function.   I know I read some in archives, but we may not have what I was thinking about, earlier.

San, I got locked out still babbling about Widget.

Sorry about that.

San

My thoughts on the Valentijn and Sebastian topic ...

As far as I know ... there is no credible backup which disputes the contentions of Anita, Paulus and Joran that Valentijn and Sabastian were in Aruba on May 29/30, 2005.

I believe if Valentijn and Sabastian had been in the Netherlands with their mother it would absolve Valentijn of all suspicion.

It is Joran and Paulus statements and declarations that the young boys were in Aruba that has made Valentijn the topic of discussion in regards to possible participation to some extent in the events encompassing the morning when Natalee Holloway disappearance.

Think about it.  The implication of Valentign and Sebastian being in Holland with Anita is ... family member in Holland ... members of the Zeola family ... the bus driver ... the teaching staff ... the students ... have all been compensated ... intimidated or possess underlying motives to participate in the coverup that has denied Natalee Holloway justice?

Thoughts?

Janet

+++++++++++

VALENTIJN AND SEBASTIAN VAN DER SLOOT

Paulus Van der Sloot
Witness Statement
June 18, 2005

On May 29th 2005, at approximately 16.00 hours, I went with Joran to the “Free Carribean Stud Tournament” in the Holiday Inn. During the break, at approximately 18.30 hours, I went back home.  My youngest son Sebastian who was playing at a friends house  was due to be dropped off at home around that time. Joran, with my permission, took over my seat because he had been eliminated earlier.


Paulus van der Sloot
Suspect Statement
June 23, 2005

I woke up Valentijn and Sebastian and I also said to Joran that he
had to go to school even though he wasn't in the mood to go.


Paulus Van der Sloot
Witness Statement
June 18, 2005

On May 30th in the hours of the morning, I did not notice anything different/out of the ordinary with Joran. According to me he got onto the bus of the I.S.A. with his brothers Sebastian and Valentijn just like he always does. I am not absolutely sure about that because I didn't notice it and because Joran didn't have to be at school every day during that period. He was busy with his final exams and sometimes he stayed home.


Paulus van der Sloot
Suspect Statement
June 23, 2005

To your question whether Sebastian and Valentijn went to school that Monday, I can state the following. Yes, they got onto the bus and went to school  because in the period that Anita was away they took the bus every day.


Paulus van der Sloot
Witness Statement
June 18, 2005

At some point during the night I was awoken by the barking of the dogs. My son Valentijn came to me and asked me what was happening. There were a lot of people at the door and there was also a police-patrol.


Paulus van der Sloot
Suspect Statement
June 23, 2005

To your question how it then is possible that I had not seen Joran
get onto the bus, I can state the following. Of course I see the children get onto the bus  and that also is true for Joran. But unlike Valentijn and Sebastian who went with the bus everyday Joran didn't go with the bus once or twice during that period.


Paulus van der Sloot
Suspect Statement
June 25, 2005

We spoke last time about that Monday night when Joran was at the "Raquet Club", that I only took the bag with me. I am remembering that it was around 08:00pm when I took the bag to Joran at the “Raquet Club”, this was when Joran was walking in the direction of the Marriott and made the announcement that he was going to participate in the “Free Tournament” at the Wyndham that this came up. In my view I even grumbled (expressed concern) on Joran and then went on to pick up Sebastian at the ZEOLA family.


Joran van der Sloot
Suspect Statement
June 9, 2005

When it was half time of the game my father wanted to go home to go and babysit my ten year old brother.


Anita van der Sloot
On the Record w/ Greta
June 23, 2005

ANITA VAN DER SLOOT: He's very quiet. He's very shy. He doesn't like media coverage at all. And he's very much hurt by things that are happening. And as I look back — I mean, I came back from Holland Wednesday, and I was so surprised at seeing three young men — one kid, two men — involved, maybe, in the disappearance of a girl ...

Interesting post........so I wonder if the rock painting was one of these decoys?

NativeLingo wrote:

last night police had decoys pulling the press in all directions…..they will avoid a media orgy at all cost…..

Jun 11, 2:00 PM

According to the aru-bay site it was just the opposite.  The media was all in town for a press conference while ALE was at the rocks.

   
Monday, June 30th, 2008
Misinformatiion (Google Translation)

Not only Joran was good at providing misinformation during his interrogation and to judges, even some journalists give you.

Let us start with the hassle that appeared on various websites on the relationship between Patrick and Peter. The most important fact ontging everyone. The introduction of Peter is in their own book of Patrick, who ultimately decide what is in his book. The introduction tells exactly how that relationship was. No sweet bread baking, but simply the truth (to) tell. Patrick has no minute opposition to the inclusion of that introduction. He is not hypocritical. There are very few authors who have the balls to a story as honestly and without opsmuk to tell. Therefore, 'Discards' precisely such an interesting book and not egodocuments.

Peter R. de Vries in his introduction with very interesting observations about the double standards in assessing infiltration operations and confessions on tape and video. But that is rather ignored by the press, because it will be difficult to continue to defend the proposition that the confessions of Joran would be worthless. Patrick and Peter ever go to the substantive arguments. In the book are no less than 30000 words with confessions of Joran. A unique opportunity to make their own assessment of Joran with his new friend really is his heart to him just what skies or on the sleeve's too pins. The dumb mantra 'waarheidsserum' about smoking joints explains it against all substantive arguments and the own words of Joran.

The most oliedom seems to me, are people who want a say on the matter, with all kinds of allegations are untrue or half, draw conclusions without pure analysis, misinformation napraten of others, but then say that they do not want the book or will read . Often as an argument: I have them Patrick nothing to deserve that book. Well, read it in the library on my part! But if you want to say something to please all the facts are there, certainly as those from first-hand. Do not hold your own opinion because you're eigenwijs and everything supposedly know better, but because you've obtained your understanding is to inform.

Patrick was never in this book began - had never even thought of writing a book - if I did not time after time had advised and encouraged to write. In the book is read in detail why. Who can think a little do it yourself forward! Hoofdreden: if people so much nonsense about you and your work spreading, there is only one way to prevent this from talking: the whole story without telling opsmuk. Moreover, I think it bewonderingswaardig that Patrick has to make clean sweep with his past as jeugdcrimineel. It is fun and exciting to read if you're in crime and all backgrounds are interested. And whatever you may think of Patrick, how tough he talks sometimes, how on-Dutch it is to tell stories in which another man would rather not prijsgeeft about themselves, one thing is certain: all went jeugdcriminelen instead criminals , but agreed to concentrate on huisvaderschap and selling hydraulic slangetjes and cleanup of leaked oil. Then Netherlands would be a lot safer. Especially if they are in their later life is all still an infiltration action to do to bring light into a crime that seasoned investigators three years can not solve. What I am concerned it may be introduced as a sort of military service for ex-criminals.

Schofterig are all people who say that Patrick lied about this or that would have. I read in De Telegraaf: 'Whether Van der Eem this time the truth is unclear. Even at this newspaper he lied repeatedly. Where then? What then? Suppose than once clear: 'this or that is a lie, man. "Dan Patrick can defend itself. Moreover, if the liars who lie that Patrick is a liar, against Joran mean that he has lied, then he takes that on the sale. A pseudo-natural infiltrator lying about who he is and how he thinks. It is good to note how grumpy Joran as Patrick during the last round a bit more his own sizeable opinion is ventilate. Believe me, this is not a good prescription for an infiltration.

The 'problem' of Patrick is true that he is honest, he / she is vulnerable, and then burden of how the media gets an unfair twist is given to his often sensational statements. An important example: In the interview with the Volkskrant, Patrick said: "Joran did gesnoven agree with me. Not in the car. And even for the journeys. In the beginning I also once smoked crack on his nose. Joran then lifting, but it's nothing for him. "In the New Revu he says:" But I've never said here Joran sniffing. I had Joran to the crack may help to the heroin. Have I not done. "

It was then too bizarre for words to Aktueel.nl and also to make sure that Network was created: "The gelegenheidsundercoveragent Joran would also have offered coke. He would be accepted and used. "(Loc) and Patrick and Joran have together purchased coke and perhaps even used or likely." (Network).

What are you doing? What are you doing coke together bought? Where, then? Patrick says that then? Should you're only "carelessness" of those media? Had Patrick made this mistake, he was immediately 'lying' accused, but of the public broadcaster can not tell you that of course. In this respect still a nice detail for the insiders. In this programme Netwerk Saturday of the John Hill. I have one hour before the broadcast half hour phone talk with him. When John said also at a given moment 'offered' and I asked where it stands. He was referring to the interview in De Volkskrant. I knew that interview from my head and said so immediately that there is' a hoisting taken "and that what is different 'offered'. John van de Heuvel recognized that the call did. I gave the backdrop also is obvious that an infiltrator at the level of its' topic 'TO TRAVEL (Patrick did that by playing the gangster), Joran obviously not the joint out of his hands can sit store or an argument can Jelinek - if Joran himself a lifting of his crack would take. The book makes clear that Joran Patrick fully trusted and that was because the "gangster Patrick 'role played so well that even his own wife was worried that he returned to the crime had fallen. Anyway, when Network presenter viewers are so totally wrong information, said John van de Heuvel, which is just half hours talking with me was sitting, when this immediately in the broadcast? No. The picture had namely, that Patrick had offered Joran coke. The Pavlovian reaction of the media in this case is that there are holes in the confession of Joran should be shot. Because that's only news and if that news is there or not, but it must be made.

You can quote an old Dutch proverb: in the peat is not looking for a turfje. Patrick admits that he has used coke, so what makes the breeding than that error is that he also has offered to Joran. Or that they have bought together, which also never been claimed by Patrick (thus invented by Network). For two reasons, saying that this is not. Offering or address itself is a life difference. And secondly, I did this kind of errors, gedraai, and the assumption of erroneous messages, often against the media (see book for examples). And in addition to Patrick Good, the Bad and Patrick, Patrick Small can of course never defend against all this nonsense. He would no more time left over to slangetjes to sell.

Let me respond to the main allegations:

-- Patrick has coke used during the seven months of the infiltration action. That influences what Joran is not in sight. Although never investigated, other (crown) witnesses or pseudo / infiltrators in the civil court also sometimes make a statement while they are short or long coke used. That is in this case irrelevant anyway, because the cameras and microphones that the confessions of Joran determined not walk on coke or coke used Joran itself.

-- Patrick Joran has never offered coke or purchased along with him. In the sixth week of the nearly seven-month operation wanted Joran once a snuff and he has a lifting of the crack. That has happened once (Patrick used in the interview with De Volkskrant the words "sometimes") and Joran was apparently was not pleasant. On page 197 in the book is an extract from the voorbankgesprekken where Joran says that he once previously has used coke, more or less forced upon him by a girl who wanted to f*** with him! ". Patrick It is never clear whether that happened before or after the second arrest of Joran. This story of Joran clearly shows that no drug coke for him is that he more than once (or even every now and then).

-- That the coke-use under the direction of Patrick would have been by Peter R. de Vries is an accusation that is stupid for words. I refer to his own introduction to the book 'Discards' and the very detailed story in the book itself. If investigators make use of pseudo-infiltrators, which they suspect that they use coke or drug addict, that makes them no regissseurs of that drug use. Under many circumstances, their minutes just to the evidence involved. Weather applies to this operation that this does not matter. Patrick does not impose any statements, Joran submit statements made by a camera are included.

-- It is totally unimportant to the confessions of Joran that Patrick has a criminal history. A large part of the detainees in the Netherlands convicted by statements by people with criminal convictions. And once again is that in this case is not relevant, because the camara and microphones that the confessions of Joran determined have no criminal record.

-- Joran smokes many joints. He said that in his own book. It also appeared from the voorbankgesprekken in the Range Rover. We can do this as an established fact. Patrick has, as he describes in the book (100 grams of Q and the weed in the helicopter) - at the request of Joran twice brokered by Joran in contact with someone who could make weed. Both times, moreover, was fully involved in the initiative is Joran and Patrick has not imposed. It would be an impertinence to say that Patrick Joran to the weed has helped or kept. Joran was accustomed to the use of weed, he was not (or not always or always) 'stoned' as he did his confessions. The more you use, how difficult it is to get stoned. His confessions were multiple conversations and in many ways very consistent. And if you're stoned, and you can not really ga you all kinds of complicated calls on criminal affaires intelligent strategies and how misinformation can give a hearing room and judges (an extremely interesting element in the book incidentally). You also do not admit crimes that you never committed. Read the introduction of Peter R. de Vries and all confessions of Joran in the book to an intelligent debate to begin.

-- Patrick has an infiltration strategy chosen where he posing as a gangster. He acted a gangster. He did, I think better than Robert de Niro would have gekund. Joran was Patrick confidence because the path of the crime he claims (there are appalling examples in the book) and because only a counterpart of a police agent confidence Joran can win.

I have the complete development of the voorbankgesprekken read many times. The richness of what the book is printed ovetreft everything that was shown on television (logical, because otherwise the program had two full evenings filled). After reading hundreds of pages but I can come to a conclusion. Joran does not have confessions to a 'gangster' to whom he wants to make impression, but his best friend that he completely trusts. Joran doing 'in between' or 'for explanation' of something even many awards, which no man would do to another but what is on the sleeve to pins. One example: his story how he extended during his pre restrictions thanks to the help of his father knew how to get a phone. I note how this fact is ignored in the media. Understands than anyone how damaging it is for the investigation that Joran in his cell phone contact could freely with witnesses, friends, his parents and who knows more. In a secret phone restrictions have been PURE GOLD for a suspect. I believe that this is the main reason why the truth in this matter is totally frustrated.

All transcripts in the book have been printed by me personally selected. My basic it was the following. I'm studying rights with the ambition to be strafrechtadvocaat. Personally, I believe that it is important for ten guilty to run, than to condemn an innocent. That is precisely why I am extremely careful with edits or the omission of key texts (hence the 30000 words). Indeed, there is no text in the transcripts to find that a different light on the case can be thrown. For me, in any case, that what Joran in that car says sincere confessions. Therefore correct 'Discards' such an important book. Anyone can now assess for themselves how valuable that confessions were.

-- It does not matter to the case, but it is appalling to see how much there is a sport of media have made to the suggestion that they should Patrick, a gangster who acted still a gangster. I really do think that Patrick himself to contribute with all those rough language and tough stories of him, but there is a fundamental difference with what he himself says and what it by the media to call it or what his words will be made with the intent of the journalists to readers to believe that Patrick is still a gangster. Let me give two examples:

The Volkskrant interview, you seem to be able to read that Patrick during the time of the infiltration (and thus after his criminal life) a firearm with him would bear. There are two versions of this interview. The first version, which I have just read, and the version that has been printed. In the first version, there were words in the mouth of Patrick put (a question was his reply become). An uninhibited newspaper readers would never have suspected that a sound recording of the same conversation in two ways can be worked out. And if that was not the first time what's really on the band was, how sure is it that what is the second time in the interview is on the band stood. The first text is presented to me, the second text. I voted against the first text objected and the reporter acknowledged that when they are not as on tape appeared to stand (oops). I have also pointed to the specific setting of the interview, which I previously and later said that there is sometimes confusion as Patrick talking about his time as jeugdcrimineel and today. This happens especially when the questions about those two periods each other in rapid succession or regularly switch. I have exactly identified how this misunderstanding arose. However, the reporter does not want to change the essence or clarify if necessary. However, he made a second version which I believe is still too suggestive. If your question and answer looks good, you said immediately that something is wrong, because Patrick is talking about 'the environment' in which he is already 14 years is no longer active and not about his stay in the room of Patrick. But that makes big difference De Volkskrant apparently all from nothing. It is a wonderful passage is not it? The book is also a passage, which makes it clear that Patrick already 14 years no longer bear firearms as he and Joran in the Range Rover is detained by the police (page 283). That book, De Volkskrant previously read.

For all clarity: Patrick declares that he is already 14 years no longer has borne firearm. In his years as a criminal that he did and sometimes told that if he follows to De Volkskrant: "Yes, that I had often with me, do you? It is purely to show who you are. And to avoid problems in the environment? "The question is' you Saturday with a pistol at Joran room?" He must have wrongly understood or have not heard. I sat apart from a brief visit to the toilet and the parking meter in the interview. The tape of the entire interview with De Volkskrant can make things clearer. I will ask.

If there is a misunderstanding arises after printing an interview, that does not always mean that it has not been told what is printed. One example we find as Patrick in the interview he says that perhaps more later about his past will tell and then the joke is: "But I've still things that need to be extinguished." Patrick should learn that kind of course not to make jokes and understand that reporters with something to get going. Yet the interviewers should be clear that it was a joke, because otherwise they do doorgevraagd. Indeed, only a crime where more than 10 years in prison on state barred after 20 years and life imprisonment for crimes of which is never extinguished. That would again have a scoop! But of course not by asking the reporters after a dialogue between all four obvious joke. I think it is not to choose it as a serious answer in the interview. At the press conference the following day understood the reporters present that she had immediately called doorvragen as Patrick would really have claimed that he "maybe things would later tell who were still barred, 'which Patrick could immediately explain that he had made a joke. For all clarity: Patrick declares that his criminal past has committed no crimes that now should be extinguished.

These are but two examples from an interview. I should say a whole triad can mention all the other messages in magazines, newspapers and television. Is it because Patrick himself're still not good expresses or is it something else?

www.hartvannederland.nl/item/10041/Persconferentie_Van_der_Eem

At his press conference Patrick says very politely on the disputed points from us by the Volkskrant newspaper interview that he might not clear enough. The Nieuwe Revu interview by Patrick is not disputed, but if Panorama reporter Mylene de la Haye then an indiscernible and unclear question about claims, Patrick reiterates yet again politely "that he has not explained clearly enough ', with his head probably still at De Volkskrant. A reporter was still there even know that it is strange that Rahul apparently answers to the questions of two media has not properly explained. That in itself, as is the suggestion, saying it really enough about Patrick. Oh yes? Is that really true? He went in the first place only to the disputed points in not two, but a medium. A few hours later there plompverloren Network by the country ingeslingerd something that Patrick never said, nor at the press conference (where the point of coke bought together "not even at issue has been), nor elsewhere. And then zwamt Aktueel.nl that Patrick has offered Joran coke and that later reckless verbatim by the Reformatorisch Dagblad. At Patrick is not that this is nonsense preached. Apparently thinking that Patrick journalists quickly from his neck to talk about if there is incomprehensible passages in the media stream, because they themselves are always infallible. Right?

Could it possibly be that the press the adage of the French revolutionary Pierre de Beaumarchais's next? Vilify! Vilify! Some of it will always stick. (Belaster! Belaster! Something will always find someone to continue sticking.)

Personally I can understand why. What's more fun to watch shots in a scoop, even though the news that you must manufacture or suggest? And then there is also something like Whistleblowers Karma. Everyone wants the whistleblower or informant like to see covered in the same way all his' victim ', though one can hardly give the actual offender. Joran is downwards met. So now that Patrick must also be taken down. Only then there is a perfect circle. It is an irresistible 'apropos' for all people who themselves would never be a finger out to someone with serious problems - such as victims of crime - to help. There must be something that makes us feel a little better that we do not own head at risk. Most people find it not at all pleasant as another something good doing what they themselves never to start. Men prefer seizes the whistleblower, shaking him by each other and says: "Look, look, I said it, a little dirty eh…"

In many messages on the Internet includes the shrill sound of a number of Peter R. de Vries haters has taken hold. I can turn a ruling by Edgar Allan Poe quote: 'To vilify a great man is the readiest way in which a little man himself can attain greatness. "(A large man slander is the most obvious way in which a small man himself can achieve greatness).

Patrick himself said it is still the most philosophical after the press conference to me: 'Soon they still blame me that Joran has never been caught for what he has done with Natalee. "

Peter Schouten, spokesman Patrick van der Eem

http://patrickvandereem.nl/

   
Monday, June 30th, 2008
The verdict of the readers (Google Translation)

If you see what nonsense in the newspapers and on television is preached about my decisions and what is in my book, you need nothing more really believe what journalists write (see my earlier blog). You can still see how they do everything in their other messages imagine. You are very much crap to read in the official media. Oh, everyone knew that al

Also striking was how little journalists back to my press conference they had sent well-read book. Some - such as News - had even one week in advance and received blunderden than another slap in around by false information.

You almost think they do not want to read the book, because then they need to go deeper thinking about what they write.

I now make the raarste stuff, which say something about the intellect of some journalists. How do you find this example: a journalist with my book in his pocket asked my co-author EE Byars: I play and how your name?

It's remarkable was the reaction of another journalist who in the past probably could do a say on television about the case Joran. 'You know, Patrick, I have always believed that Joran could have done it not because of his innocent hondenogen! How would that interesting analysis about the whole matter in the past influences the news?

The two editors of De Volkskrant gave my book to the interview a figure: between 8 and 9 and the two editors of the New Revu both an 8. In the interviews was not. Hahahaha. They wanted me to establish favourable votes to get a good interview.

You see perhaps agree that books in their second edition various recommendations on the cover of the book itself what reviewers think. For example: Patrick may be a plebejer, but what he says is all true and provide a major insight into the thinking of the suspect.

Well I will tell you what the important thing for me is: what you think of my book. So I will stick to the publisher that they endeavour to any further pressure, even though those texts of my readers go. Send them to my website and I will certainly recommend the best as a second edition ever.

There have been a few days passed since the publication and I already have some reviews of ordinary readers inside. Here come the first:

Ben began last night and no longer stopped before I 'm uithad… So indeed reads like a train. Ben very glad that you've cooperated with this book, it gives a very clear picture of how it all went and how you stood it. The picture is now much more complete for me, really complements the show. It makes the admission by Joran only for me but valuable. Enormous good luck with your book and I am in any case very pleased with this additional insight into the kitchen… really great. Really… we salute you. Thank & greetings! Maarten

He Patrick. I have the book Saturday in Zwolle purchased. Ben now on page 70, find it really nice to read. Emiel

This book gives the razor drivers again this' businessman 'from Almelo. No, you go this Patrick might not be allowed, it is in no way an angel, but it gives you access to perhaps the most illustrious private undercover operation ever. The book reads delicious way, shows how much his heart wanted Joran skies with his new 'gangstervriend' Patrick. A story of over 7 months, with a wonderful introduction by crime reporter Peter R. de Vries. Reading this book, because only then can you really judge! Reader from Voorburg on bol.com book gives five stars

Last week bought your book and I think it is really a super book!. Pfff… what do you then agree that many months, And then you also have is your family agree on the game must continue to address these criminals, really super about how much respect you have this whole thing. Jeffrey

Have you read books; am really impressed. Thank you've done this. Joris

The story of the infiltration is so well put together that I have the idea that I've meebeleefd through you again. Unbelievable; anyone who has read this book will never again doubt the credibility of Joran confession… you've got a number of judges in Aruba also sent a copy? The book is honest, heartbreaking and the truth eventually comes slowly to top… Thank you for everything you've done, big compliment for your work, frankness, the sacrifices that you and your family have made & perseverance… and of course an oily plumes for the writer! Eliza.

So see you again. Internet may often roddelton, but it also gives everyone the chance to own their voices heard.

http://patrickvandereem.nl/

Monday, June 30th, 2008
Interwiew on BNN and NCRV Radio

Ga to www.101.tv for an interview with Patrick. You can just under his name 'search' typing to the call.

Today in an interview with Radio NCRV spokesman Peter Schouten

http://mmmagazine.ncrv.nl/ncrv?nav=dzdsuCsHtGATmKnJkaGnbG

Google Translation:

It would perhaps not directly say, but I'm even on holiday to Italy. The messages here, on Friday and Saturday, I've made progress Thursday, I'm now with the laptopje on a Tuscan terrace. First, as a response to the message about the seemingly not-too-warm relationship between Patrick van der Eem and Peter de Vries, as described on Thursday.

Peter de Vries mail: "You make it all too fur. Patrick I had already met Wednesday in Panama before he came into the room. He was made a long time (and hence not actually an hour late) and was later transformed into a other space-camera interviews with Hart of the Netherlands and Boulevard. I greeted him and spoken extensively, so that I need not start over again in the press room. Of course, we called each other a hand, more than that. Patrick brought also a huge bouquet of flowers along for me. I have no quarrel with him. I am less happy with certain statements made by him, but I'm professional enough to understand that this is all to hear. It comes with the package ... I'm not with him gone into the sea because he gives such good interviews or the ideal son, but because he Joran could get up and running. And that he has done. I will give him a hand always there is no animosity. " Duly noted.

Nataleeholloway2 In this context, our American meelezer presumes that the person who reacts to me under the name 'Piepeltje' none other than Renee Gielen, who Network correspondent in Aruba. Or I can not check whether the messages posted there Piepeltje indeed come from. I do not know whether I can see that, but frankly I can not much care. It seems to me very unlikely incidentally: Piepeltje Gielen and have the same warhoofdige way of thinking, but that does not say anything. You could say that those who so wish to have seated next to wisely keep their mouths were, but if they do not sign up someone else with an absurd theory. Let's briefly go through the Gielen-believers think that it is a serious journalist who had one point on her theory that Natalee somewhere in Venezuela was detained in a brothel and that they survive the evening on the beach even at different places on Aruba is seen and that they are only in one or other drugshol been.

Nataleedevries1Ik assume that this story now surely be considered as closed. Apart from what I call warhoofden ga I assume that everyone agrees on these facts: Joran Natalee has taken to the beach because she is deceased in his presence. That science is due to the undercoveractie with Patrick, there is what I am concerned nothing to desist things. You can discuss the way that went, but that is another story.

--



I also get many responses from people who want Piepeltje figures like I give a ban. There is this to say: before the Internet came as people he does not comply with the bucket. In newspapers and magazines were sent such letters almost linea recta thrown in the trash ( "O, that he is again, you do not have to read '). The problem is that if I'm the same selection criteria would persist, there is only very serious - but also as boring - response would be placed. You would want some people would deposit their onderbuikgevoelens at that spot with glasses and a doorspoelknop instead on their keyboards, but for me is the border at certain privacygegevens, unproven suspicions, profanity and schuttingtaal, I do not mind if someone me uitscheldt. Apparently life that feelings, I do not pull me too much care and ga assume most visitors do a few things on their own value.


http://misdaadjournalist.web-log.nl/

We are going by what 2 of the biggest liars in the world planned.  I believe the reason Paulus and Joran involved Valentign and Sebastian was because it helped Paulus and Joran with an alibi.  We all know Paulus was at the casino next to Natalee.  Why lie and say he went home to pick up his son.

I have always believed Widget on this issue.  A bus driver, teacher do not convince me because they are all part of the coverup.  A statement from Valentign might and I say might lightly sway me a little.  There is no statement from Valentign but there is a statement from Sander G. who was the same age as Valentign.  I believe if they made Val give a statement there would be proof that he was in fact not in Aruba and he would be in trouble.  This would end his dreams of coming to the U.S. and going to college.  Suspects can lie Witnesses can't.

There are two issues that I refuse to change my mind on and this is one of them.

Did I tell you I'm stubborn  ::MonkeyHaHa::

One more thing.  It is said that the young son was upset when he found out what Joran did.  When did he find out.  Wasn't he there that night.  He found out when he got home with Anita.

Hello Klaas....I lost my Avi  you gave me...boo hoo hoo...I can't find it anywhere...can you pet her back for me PLEASE...I feel so nekkid....Thank You...see what happens when I tried to add a sig line under my lost avi...I so dumb.....

Destiny...holding banana leaves in front of me.....  ::MonkeyWaa::

OK, give me a minute to find it  ::MonkeyHaHa::

Next to Tamikosmom ... you are a pussycat San.

 ::MonkeyHaHa::

Janet

San…...I am undecided…

There are no early statements from Paulis and Anita either, but there are from the Kalpoe mother and stepdad, as early as 6/2.

And why these questions if Val was not even in the country?

Satish 6/30 PV

On your question if I know the name of Joran’s second brother, I can only give you the following answers:
Joran has two (2) younger brothers but I don’t know their names.  I think that Joran’s brother is fifteen (15) years old.

On your question if the fifteen-year-old brother of Joran can drive a car, I cannot answer that question.

Carpe, cover your eyes, Destiny is nekid ::cartwheel:: ::cartwheel:: ::cartwheel::

I bow down to the almighty KLAAS....finder of lost avitars...and all things good.....THANKS...now I can toss these banana leaves aside....

Not no more....LOL...Klaas dressed me up again...HAH!

Because they had 10 days to make up their lies and coverup for Paulus.  The day of Satish's statment is the 30th.  He was released 4 days later.  They didn't really ask Satish a hard question.  Why didn't they ask Satish if they saw the brother when they went to pick up Joran.  A brother who was suppose to be up on the computer until 3:00 am that same evening.

O/T  - either this "personal text" in our profile is new or I completely missed it before.    ::MonkeyHaHa::

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/perstext.jpg)

Mum

Great catch!!

Why would the interrogators be question Deepak in regards to whether Val drives if it was not related to the the Natalee Holloway case.

As I stated in my post there are just too many witnesses who could come forward at some period in time and refute Paulus and Joran's contention that the younger boys were in Aruba.  I cannot comprehend Paulus taking the risk.  There are classmates ... teachers ... bus driver ... headmaster ... parents of friends ...

Janet

Destiny, I'll be right over with a bottle of champagne.  ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyHaHa::

Why would we assume that? Joran himself said that he didn't know whether she was alive or not?

Great...I'll be the one doing a fan dance with banana leaves  ::MonkeyWink::

Crossbow just posted the link to this pic on the front page of SM.  It's a nice photo of the new Senor Frogs but even better of the parking behind where CnC used to be. 

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3164/2498800161_6a9f6ed267.jpg)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mr_frankie/2498800161/

To make the story look like he was home.  It betters Paulus' alibi.  Satish was probably clueless as to why he was being asked that question.  They asked the stupid one which was Satish.  Why didn't they ask Deepak.

Even if it is 20 years from now not one of those students will come forward and make a statement.  They might say it in a conversation with someone but there will never be a statement.  What good would it do.  They don't even believe Joran's own confession in Aruba and they aren't prosecuting him for what he said on tape.

 ::MonkeyEek::

THIS RIGHT HERE, IS WHO IT'S ALL ABOUT!

DON'T EVER TAKE YOUR EYES OFF OF HER.


(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w214/iliketoN0KTEM/kjkjkjjkj.jpg)


(unless you are Rob Smith from the AHATA - Rob, don't ever take your good eye off of her.)

You go girl.  The hi-lighted part above says it all. That boy was not in Aruba when this happened.

You can discuss the way that went, but that is another story.



Yupppppp...

The other story, that's the one we want DICK HEAD! ::MonkeyTongue::


U GO BYE BYE NOW... you've had your 15 minutes. ::MonkeyRoll::

They keep talking and they hang themselves.

  This would end his dreams of coming to the U.S. and going to college.


If Valentijn sets foot on US soil, he is one dead Van der sloot. IMHO

I love that picture of Natalee, thanks Carpe...and you are sooooo right on sir!  She's what it's all about!

(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w214/iliketoN0KTEM/gffffffffffffff.jpg)

 ::MonkeyHaHa::

Nah, no one would do that and completely lower themselves to that. Now, should he be confronted? You bet!!

She's become our baby now too, huh texasmom?

I take what they did to her VERY PERSONALLY.


It was senseless. It was sick, and it will never drop until it has been accounted for.

There must be an accounting.

Carpe!
::MonkeyLaugh::  ::MonkeyLaugh:: ::MonkeyLaugh:: ::MonkeyLaugh::

Sweet Dreams San...

Bank on it. I beg to differ with you on that opinion, Wreck.

San ... I agree that it is suspicious that the two younger VDS were not interrogated.  I believe the "powers that be" who were protecting Joran and Paulus did not want to involve or implicate Valentijn or Sabastian.  I contend that this also the reason the interrogators avoided mentioning them ... except for one time ... when questioning Joran, Deepak and Satish.

I believe that Mum's find is the only declaration where interrogators mentioned either Valentijn or Sabastian.

Hey ... I am only speculating San.  Other than Joran and Paulus' contention that Valentijn and Sabastian were in Aruba and ... not with their Mother in Holland ... I do not think there is any credible backup either way.  Am I correct?

Janet

+++++++++

Beth Twitty
On the Record w/ Greta
November 03, 2005

VAN SUSTEREN: .... Beth, in this letter that all four of you have signed that went to the Aruban attorney general, in the very early part of the letter, it talks about Mr. Jacobs, Mr. Dennis Jacobs, the investigator, taking a statement from Joran Van Der Sloot. And the statements says, in part, that's reflected in this letter, it says, "I think Deepak" -- this is Joran speaking. It says, "I think that Deepak killed Natalee and bureid her body." And then there is the criticism in the letter that there were no follow-up questions, and even that the FBI got frustrated at this point and walked out.

TWITTY: Absolutely.

VAN SUSTEREN: What can you tell me about when this occurred and details about it?

TWITTY: Well, this would have been early on. It could have been as early as June 11, 12 or 13 because that's probably when the most incriminating statements were being given by these suspects. They were really implicating each other. They were not denying crimes, at that point. They were really into the finger pointing. And I think it was just so frustrating as to -- as it's stated in the letter, the follow-up questions. You know, what should have been asked after that? I mean, something should have been. You just don't leave an interrogation at, Oh, OK.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,174510,00.html


Date: November 1,2005
To: Theresa Croes Fernandez-Pedra
Attorney General Of Aruba
Havenstrat 2
Orangestad,Aruba

From  Arthur F. Wood
Dave and Robin Holloway
Beth and Jug Twitty

Dear Attorney General,

<snipped>

At one point, An FBI person was privy to one of the interviews conducted by Dennis Jacobs. The FBI agent became so frustrated with Jacobs methods and line of questioning that he/she walked out of the interview.

<snipped>

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=318.msg45696;topicseen#msg45696

Nite San! 
And by the way....nothing's convinced me the brothers were in Aruba either.  Until I see some evidence otherwise...I believe they were in Holland. JMO
 ::MonkeyCool::

Good Night San

Janet

There's always some of these in every case I guess!  ::MonkeyNoNo::

http://translate.google.com/translate?sourceid=navclient&hl=en&u=http%3a%2f%2fjorangroupies%2ehyves%2enl%2f

(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x58/rorothe/JVS.jpg)
 Remember this pic?? Joran is a flamer.

oops! Wrong "flamer" pic!

(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x58/rorothe/JVS1.jpg)

....and this one is always good too! ::cartwheel::

(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w214/iliketoN0KTEM/joranpic.jpg)

No doubt!!! Seals the deal doesn't it!!  ::MonkeyHaHa::

(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w214/iliketoN0KTEM/eferere.png)

(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x58/rorothe/drevil.jpg)

Carpe - do you know who these guys are with Urine?

Tamikosmom I know you were speculating.  I was just trying to explain why I thought the way I did.  I sound a little rough when I post when I really don't mean to.

OK well maybe sometimes I mean to but never to you  ::MonkeyHaHa::

I was just thinking Joran's face looks very similar in the photo above and the naked one below.  i wonder if the photos were taken around the same time?  The one above was taken in February I think.  OR WAS THE FACE ABOVE PHOTOSHOPPED INTO THE PHOTO BELOW?

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/Joran061108b.jpg)

 ::MonkeyLaugh:: ::MonkeyLaugh:: ::MonkeyLaugh::
(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w214/iliketoN0KTEM/02.png)

Hey SS!

No, I do not.

You may be onto something, Klaas.

Even the hair looks right.

Carpe - I was typing my post about how the photo MAY have been taken around the same time when I previewed it and thought, OH SHOOT, it could be photoshopped!

They were just two college guys that were partying with Joran that night. There was a few stories about them in Holland.

A few pics of Joran peaking through his window,those same two guys and what looks like a chores list with Joran and his 3 roommates.

   
February 1, 2008 - Alice Springs - Today at the home of Joran van der Sloot. Joran came today internationally in the news because he crime reporter Peter R. de Vries would have helped the body of Natalee Holloway to disappear. (Photo Rob Voss - www.robvoss.nl


http://tinyurl.com/5cz7yh

Thanks San

Lots to do in the next couple of days.  Getting ready for my trip.  DIL and daughter are taking me shopping for a couple outfits and ... a haircut/style at a salon that IS NOT named "magic cuts".  I can't wait to see the new me.  I know I could never compete with Destiny and his bananna leaf outfit but ...

Have a good sleep.

Janet
9:40

Nite Janet

I meant "her" not "his" in the above post.

I think it is time to hit the hay.

Good Night All.

Janet

Read it and said 'huh?' but now know we all have those moments...I'm turning in, too.  Night.

Nite 2NJ

Back for a minute..read my email and saw this:

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I think someone would have noticed if the two other Sloot children were not in school those last weeks in May.  Were they excused?  Surely they would have told friends they would be gone.  There is also the family in the Netherlands.  Did they see the younger brothers prior to Natalee disappearing?

A separate question - were they home the night Natalee disappeared?  Could they have been sent away for some activity?

Over time, even a few days, people forget or their memories become less clear.  Then, one day they move off the island.  jmho

I hope he lives a long life and one day communicates his story...the story of being the brother of JVDS.

There was something in the media a few years ago about the impact the Oklahoma City bombing had on the bomber's family members.  In some cases, the family hadn't seen or heard from the bombers in years.  I'm sure the family watched the media coverage, and people knew who they were.  I would not wish that on anyone.

I have to wonder why parents would put their son in a room so far away from parental oversight.    What was Joran thinking in his little hut when the rest of his family was enjoying time together in the evening?  Did he ever want to join in?  Was the door locked?

How many times did his mom say something like "Joran would never (fill in blank) he's a sporter."?

Did the parents ever wonder how JVDS and his reputation may have affected the younger children?  Do people avert their eyes when the see the younger brother?  I imagine that when they were younger, children probably aped and mocked their brother in front of them.  I wonder if Joran's exploits were legend on the island?

Did the parents know when their son arrived home?  Left in the night or in the morning?

If the ISA was moving, were the children dismissed early that spring?  Maybe they had special details to help pack and load boxes?

Were the students packing, taking tests, studying?  Was it quiet enough to take a test with packing and moving going on?

I remember PVDS I think in an interview or something lamenting that all of JVDS's teenage secrets had been made public.

Who will lament for the adults if Peter D. makes public some secrets?

(http://news.diario-aruba.com//images/stories/2008N/juli/1/car.jpg)

From DiarioAruba.com


(Maybe he wants to raise taxes?  Help fill the gaps in the budget?)

Do we have this?  Paul Brough, posted by resigned at RU.

(http://i9.tinypic.com/4v7m78m.jpg)

What amazes me that it is sooooooo simple to know if they were in Aruba or not. When I fly internationally and come back they have my whole history on a screen, where I have gone, when I went and when I came back. A COMPLETE HISTORY. Just pull there records and viola they were either there or not. Now speaking of Aruba thier logs probably are handwritten manuals written in pencil when it comes to the Sloots and u just know that so someone spilled coffee on them and smeared the lead.

Yes Buckeye - I had it and I think we posted it in the Paul Brough/Mr. Pink thread  ::MonkeyWink::

Thanks.  I don't remember seeing it....and....I wanted to see if I could post a picture... ::MonkeyHaHa::

You are an early bird....

 ::MonkeyCool::  Yes

OOHHH Dear were not sure if he had anything to do with this case but be stuck being Joran's brother

he might not know anything.IMO ::MonkeyNoNo::

test ::MonkeyHaHa::
(http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh25/johan555/SM-JOHAN.gif?t=1214915094)

Nice fonts Johan  ::MonkeyHaHa::

If you keep repeating the same lie often enough, some people believe it  ::MonkeyHaHa::

http://www.amigoe.com/artman/publish/artikel_43970.php

MEP: ‘2008 successful tourism year
30 Jun, 2008, 18:10 (GMT -04:00)

 Email dit artikel 
 Print dit artikel 
 
ORANJESTAD – All the institution with tourism expertise on the island say that 2008 is going to be another successful year for the tourist industry. This is thanks to the dynamic policy of the Oduber-cabinet and the huge efforts of Minister Edison Briesen of Tourism and Transport.

MEP indicates that the government has fastened upon the reinforcement of this industry. Premier Nelson Oduber laid the basis for this by seeing to it that the project Plan Sasaki was implemented near Eagle- and Palm Beach. The MEP AND especially Minister Briesen was praised for all the good things they did in the tourism industry. Thanks to Briesen, the tourism on the island increased from 691.000 tourists in 2001 to 754.000 in 2007.

AHATA, ATA, and Aruba Airport Authority (AAA) confirmed that this year is going to be another success.
 

:*(   I love this picture of sweet Natalee.

Good God.....that scared me half to death! ::MonkeyEek::
This image looks like it came from an interview I watched late one night back in 2005.Carpe,do you happen to know where it came from?I have been looking for that interview forever.

Hi Klaas, I think I told you where I went last night... well anyway, our friend Kim, who went to Aruba a few times with us was there also, she said that the doctor she works for got married three weeks ago and they had the honeymoon on Aruba - guess what - no one in sight - the place was empty.

I wish I could have spoken to that doctor before he went, but that was the first I heard about it.

This is what I have saved from a few discussions of the subject here at SM.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2804.msg377353

 Re: Natalee Case Discussion #749 4/24 -
« Reply #276 on: April 26, 2008, 11:09:58 AM » 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Flight discussion:

Quote from: "wreck"
Quote from: "WidgetTheMidget"
Quote from: "justinsmama"
Quote from: "WidgetTheMidget"
Quote from: "justinsmama"
Widget~ Hey! Can you clarify exactly what info you gleaned about Anita's flight back to Aruba in June 2005?


Hey Justins .......

3 Vander Sloots Landed In Aruba On June 1st .................

 Rolling Eyes
 You got actual confirmation that it was 3 vds?


Yes And I Also Heard It Was Passed On To The FBI

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1173.msg171129#msg171129

More on this from the archives:
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=251.820
 Natalee Holloway / LCD Archive / Lively Case Discussion #515 8/21 - 8/24/2006  on: August 23, 2006, 11:19:51 PM 
Quote from: "anidac"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "anidac"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "Carnut"
Just like Karr can be shown to be a lier if proof can be found he was home on Dec 25th, PVDS could be shown to be a lier if proof could be found that the munchkins were in Holland with momma.


Good point Carnut!


Just butting in to shore my 2 cents here....  Prior to 9/11 one could find passanger lists online.  Those days are gone.

Widget claims he was able to and that Anita and 2 other Sloots returned on June 2nd, or was it June 1st.  Anyway..that's what he said.


Now that you mention it I believe I had some luck finding partial information back when we where looking for flight schedules but if my memory serves me correctly I was only able to find ticket numbers without names.


Oops assigned seats where also included.

Yes, I got your email, sorry I didn't get a chance to respond.  Hope you had a great time last night!  So your friend says the beaches are empty huh?  No surprise there!  ::MonkeyWink::

Sorry Blonde..but I do think/feel that Val *knew* something of that night.....He had the bathtub bomb on his myspace.....I don't think that Val was with Anita on her trip....I'm not even sure if Anita was off Aruba at that time....

Yes, I heard very recently from someone there that communicates with many of the people that actually work in the hotels, and they all say it is very slow.  Although the Minister of Tourism and the newspapers claim differently, the workers tell the real story.

never a problem! I did have a great time! And he played Tattoo for me he he he!!! Played lots of Billy Joel, but that was to be expected. Some Jackson Browne, Beatles, even a Neil Diamond song for another friend of ours. LOL

Kim said that the doctor said - the place was empty. I assume that meant the beaches, the hotels, and the restaurants.

I think Val knows a lot. Right now, we simply don't have the evidence to totally blame him (and to wish his demise if he comes to the U.S.) That said, I ABSOLUTELY think Val needs to be "confronted" and made VERY uncomfortable here. Wishing/predicting his death in WAY out of line. IMO

G'morning KarmaRoundUp!

I snagged that pic from Michelle Says So BOYCOTT ARUBA BLOG.

I blew it up, that's why it looks like that. ::MonkeyWink::

Anita arrived back June 1st.


http://www.hollowaycase.com/archive/police_documents/pvds623.htm
PROCES VERBAAL

On June 23rd 2005, at approximately 14.30 hours, as a suspect, a man was interviewed who stated his name was: Paulus Antonius Petrus Johanna van der SLOOT, born in the Netherlands on February 15th 1952, judge (common court) and living at XXXXXXXX number XX on Aruba.


To your question when Anita left for the Netherlands, I can state the following. I cannot remember exactly but I think it was the Tuesday or Wednesday before that Monday the 30th of May that she departed for the Netherlands. Anita was in the Netherlands for seven or eight days.


Didn't someone confirm this from SM ::MonkeyConfused::

I've never been perfectly aligned Wreck, I'm a little bent. ::MonkeyConfused:: ::MonkeyWink::

...but it's all good.

Could there have been van der Sloot relatives on the plane, maybe not the brothers?

Maybe someone wanted to spend the summer on Aruba with the VDS?

The incident with JVDS interrupted their vacation?

JMO, but I think that if the seats were assigned to anyone other than the immediate family it would have been stated in the information above.

Thanks Carpe!
I'm sure you are not responsible for anita's blow up image ::MonkeyHaHa::

Hi Destiny

I see that Klaas finally gave you back your clothes.  This is a family friendly forum and you running around with nothing but that banana leaf  ....

 ::MonkeyNoNo::

Anyways ... IMO Anita was in Holland when all the happenings encompassing the disappearance of Natalee Holloway took place.

When I consider the joint interviews that Paulus and Anita have done in regards to the case ... it appeared to me that Anita did all the talking for her husband.

If Anita had been home on the morning of May 31, 2005 when the Twitty group arrived on her doorstep ... I think her presence would have been a given.  IMO.

Janet

++++++++


Anita van der Sloot
Pauw and Witteman
January 11, 2008    
 
(translated from Dutch)

Anita: ... Those doubts were there for a while, and I was in Holland by the way, for the birthday of my grandmother, she turned 90 years old.  I had gone to Holland for a few days, and Paul called me, like oh, something disturbing, there is a girl missing, and Joran seems to be the one who was last... seen with her, went out with her.  By the way, I was just at the point of leaving Holland, so I did not go back early.

http://www.hollowaycase.com/archive/media/jorandevries.htm

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?


Anita van der Sloot
On the Record w/ Greta
June 23, 2005

ANITA VAN DER SLOOT: He's very quiet. He's very shy. He doesn't like media coverage at all. And he's very much hurt by things that are happening. And as I look back — I mean, I came back from Holland Wednesday, and I was so surprised at seeing three young men — one kid, two men — involved, maybe, in the disappearance of a girl ...

I had gone to Holland for a few days, and Paul called me, like oh, something disturbing, there is a girl missing, and Joran seems to be the one who was last... seen with her, went out with her.  By the way, I was just at the point of leaving Holland, so I did not go back early.


Why even drop that line Anita Van der sloot, you DIRT-BAG? Always making

excuses aren't you? You KNOW they did it.


and I was so surprised at seeing three young men — one kid, two men — involved, maybe, in the disappearance of a girl ...


Hey, which one do you consider to be the kid? Lemme guess, Joran?

 ::MonkeyCool::

Anita Van der Sloot
On the Record w/ Greta
June 24, 2005

A. VAN DER SLOOT: You know when I asked him when I was in Holland that weekend or a week because of a family celebration and when I spoke to him the first time I was so angry, so angry with him.

"Why did you sneak out of the house?" He said, "Mom, if you would have been there, I wouldn't even have thought about it."

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,160562,00.html

IIRC, Joran has been described as an "innocent boy" by many posters.  Satish, and Natalee are just a bit older (IIRC) and often described by these same individuals in other terms. 

Maybe PVDS was expecting that the media would meet her at the airport.  Was there anything to to show that Anita was met at the airport?  Did she take a cab home?  Someone pick her up?

ANITA VAN DER SLOOT:

Paul called me, like oh, something disturbing, there is a girl missing, and Joran seems to be the one who was last... seen with her, went out with her.

snip



and I was so surprised at seeing three young men — one kid, two men — involved, maybe, in the disappearance of a girl


MAYBE? Anita uses the word MAYBE? As in MAY BE INVOLVED?

Anita, you don't even believe your beloved POS husband that told you he was

a judge, but turns out in the end, he was not? LOL


I don't blame ya, hun! I wouldn't believe a dang thing he said either!!!!!!


THE VAN DER SLOOT FAMILY IS SO CHOCK FULL OF SHITE,
AND VARIOUS OTHER UNSAVORIES.

Something akin to American July 4th ... Canadians celebrate Canada Day on July 1st.

Hubby and I will attempt to make two gatherings for BBQs today ... one on each side of the family.  We had to decline an invitation to a neighbourhood get together but will attempt to join everyone for fireworks this evening.

It should be a great day ... I do not have to host or cook.

 ::MonkeyHaHa::

Hey ... Americans and Canadians are so blessed.  Everything may not be perfect in our great nations but ... when the alternative is considered ...

GOD BLESS CANADA!!
GOD BLESS AMERICAN!!

Janet

++++++++++

Canada Day
Background

On June 20, 1868, a proclamation signed by the Governor General, Lord Monck, called upon all Her Majesty's loving subjects throughout Canada to join in the celebration of the anniversary of the formation of the union of the British North America provinces in a federation under the name of Canada on July 1st.

The July 1 holiday was established by statute in 1879, under the name Dominion Day.

<snipped>

More ...http://www.pch.gc.ca/PROGS/CPSC-CCSP/JFA-HA/canada_e.cfm

Anita claims to have come back from Holland on Wednesday, June 2nd, 2005.


...yet Satish claims they were all together in front of Joran's >>> PARENTS <<<

for a meeting on TUESDAY JUNE 1st, 2005.


ANITA, which is it?

 ::MonkeyEek::

 I had gone to Holland for a few days, and Paul called me, like oh, something disturbing, there is a girl missing, and Joran seems to be the one who was last... seen with her, went out with her.  By the way, I was just at the point of leaving Holland, so I did not go back early.

Why did Paulus call, concerned that Joran was the last one with Natalee??  Thought they all believed the Holiday Inn story...then he would not have been the last...

They all lie!!  She told the same story in a Dutch interview in June 2007.  She was called because Joran was in big trouble...and I am banking on the fact that Joran is the one that made the call... She was never naive...

Joran's book:

P 115-116
 
(the following contradicts Paul van der Sloot's account of when Anita returned from the Netherlands)
 
Wednesday June 1, 2005

At  the end of the lessons my mother comes into the classroom and tells me to instantly come to her class room, and to not get on the school bus. I look at her totally surprised, but go to her class room which is next to the History room.

My mother tells me that earlier that day an invasion of jeeps and cars drove up with Americans who all carried white posters.  It’s a poster with a picture of Natalee and the, partially hand-written, text reads: KIDNAPPED NATALEE HOLLOWAY BY JORAN VAN DER SLOOT. They were even putting up the posters in the school.

http://www.hollowaycase.com/archive/book/excerpts.htm


My guess is that the kids at school added the Joran part (to the posters).

GREAT CATCH BUCKEYE!!!

Obviously ... Paulus was aware that the Holiday Inn dropoff was a lie prior to Anita arriving home from Holland on June 1, 2005.

Janet

Wednesday was June 1st in 2005.....

"the family" might that also include Joran's younger brothers?  One or both?

Maybe an uncle?  Cousin?

Buckeye ... you are on a roll.

What I gather from Joran's words ... Anita must have come home from Holland on Wednesday July 1, 2005 and ... went directly to the work or ... did she make a special trip to the school?

 ::MonkeyConfused::

Janet

++++++++

Anita van der Sloot
On the Record w/ Greta
June 23, 2005

ANITA VAN DER SLOOT: He's very quiet. He's very shy. He doesn't like media coverage at all. And he's very much hurt by things that are happening. And as I look back — I mean, I came back from Holland Wednesday, and I was so surprised at seeing three young men — one kid, two men — involved, maybe, in the disappearance of a girl ...

Where was Joran?  Didn't he see the invasion first hand?  Didn't any of the other students see the invasion?  Were there other students in school that day?  No rumors?  Speculation?  Joran didn't notice these Americans prior to his mother (or someone else) telling him?

I was just about to post about this.....after a long flight from NL, she's in her classroom....she was there when Jug and/or his friends visited the school with the posters....mmmmmm

SUNDAY, MAY 29, 2005 - Natalee/Joran encounter at the Black Jack table.

MONDAY, MAY 30, 2005 - Natalee is reported missing.

TUESDAY, MAY 31, 2005 - Twitty group encounter at the VDS' residence.

WEDNESDAY, JUNE 1, 2005 - Anita returns to Aruba from Holland.

++++++

Klaas, please delete my previous post.  I messed up.

Thank you.

Janet

Why was she so surprised?  She says Paulus called her....oh maybe she didn't know that yet...or perhaps she says Paulus called her because it was Joran...maybe Joran had Anita's phone and they want to say Paulus made the call... ::MonkeyConfused::

Good catch!

Here's a graphic for all for future reference.

(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w214/iliketoN0KTEM/rttete.jpg)

all terrific points Monks. Ya know the real strategy here is to drag this thing out as long as possible in a sense. That SENSE is so no one will be able accurately remember anything. If this thing ever went to trial there would have to be a note pinned to the body of Natalee that said "JORAN DID IT" containing his DNA.

this is not a new strategy - just one guilty parties employ.

When called to testify, all of the Sloots and their enablers and supporters will claim they do not remember - and will not be subject to perjury. After-all how can anyone remember their exact movements from 3-5 or more years ago. And some stupid ass judge will be believe it all.

Drag it out as long as possible - it's a two pronged defense. Stall - then claim you don't remember.

woo hoo 'R00ba!

all10suspects  PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 9:40 am         

http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2008/07/automatic_prison_term_for_rape_1.php

Automatic prison term for rape: minister
Tuesday 01 July 2008

Convicted rapists and other serious sex offenders should always be given prison terms, justice minister Ernst Hirsch Ballin told judges on Tuesday.

The minister's statement cooincides with the case of an ex-policeman who was given 200 hours community service for abusing a 14-year-old girl last week.

Judges did not jail him, arguing he had lost his job and because police officers have a hard time in prison. The sentence, which was in line with the public prosecution department demand, created an outcry.

Hirsch Ballin told MPs on Tuesday that he will make it clear to prosecutors that community service is not appropriate for sex crimes. Other serious crimes, such as attempted murder, will also fall under the new guidelines.

Currently, community service is only supposed to be applied in exceptional circumstances, but research shows this is not the case, Hirsch Ballin said.

In 2006, community service was handed out to 54 people convicted of rape and to 225 people convicted of sexual assault, tv programme Zembla reported last year. In total, 883 people convicted of a sex crime were given community service. The Zembla investigation led MPs to demand Hirsch Ballin bring in tougher sentencing.

The minister said in his letter to MPs that the new rules would also apply to the sexual abuse of children on the internet.
---------------

So back in 2005 Joran would have only gotten community service if all he did was rape a passed out Natalee. So why did he get rid of Natalee
or made sure he was the last person to see Natalee alive?

here's another point.

ya'll remember that list of dead young people Grande put together a good while back? There were like 15+ dead kids on that list. I have speculated that those kids most likely got a hold of a very very bad batch of XTC. The X from Belgium and Holland can and will kill you. I'm pretty sure that the intent was not to kill their customers (after-all finding more customers is harder than keeping the ones you already have), but sometimes people make critical errors when mixing chemicals. It happens.

In this case I have never seen anyone prosecuted for distribution of narcotics resulting in the death of anyone here. So, let's just say Natalee died of an accidental overdose. Joran would not be looking at any jail time and doubtful for the supplier. People age 18 on Aruba are adults. Natalee was an adult. If she voluntarily ingested any drugs - that would be considered voluntary and since she would be deceased, there would be no one to refute that story. When Deepak mentions that Joran will get 15 years - he knows what happened to Natalee. He further implies that "they will see that shit". His statement implies that he has had coaching on the level of punishment should Natalee be found. Joran would have not received any jail time from an accidental drug over dose. And even if there was an accident that was not the direct result of the ingestion of drugs, Joran would have been looking at a max of 2-5 years. We had a case here that went to court where a guy age 19 sold a girl age 16 one X tablet and she died. He got 2 years, and we have the most stringent laws in the country concerning the distribution and accidental deaths of people involved with hard drugs.

So, in my opinion, Paulus told Deepak he was looking at 15 years and Deepak turned the tables on Joran in the polis car tapes. Paulus knew the level and sentence for such a crime. And only a person over the age of 18 would have received the max. Those person(s) were Deepak and Satish.

lol....I didn't know romance had a standard time zone   ::MonkeyWink::

 ::MonkeyHaHa::

Romance is nice no matter when.  Enjoy it while it lasts.

My hubby was so romantic on our last anniversary.  No flowers ... no jewlery ... no Purdy's Chocolates from this guy.  He presented me with a beautifully wrapped parcel that contained a money belt ... a money belt so I did not have to carry my purse everywhere.  It was a very nice money belt but ... A MONEY BELT!!

I guess that is as romantic as it gets after 42 years of marriage.

 ::MonkeyNoNo::

Janet

+++++++

PS ... I would not trade this guy for the world.

http://www.radionetherlands.nl/currentaffairs/region/southamerica/080630-curacao-finances-mc

Re: Carpe's Romance Standard Time (OT, really)

Janet,

My guy gave me a DustBuster for our 1st anniversary...his co-workers & friends ribbed him so much that it got better as the years went on....now, after 34 years, it doesn't matter if there's even a card.  He's a keeper, even though he weed whacks my flowers on occasion  ::MonkeyRoll::.

i forgot to highlight this:

 ::MonkeyDance::

Thank you for sharing 2NJSons.  I can relate 100%.

Have a good day Monkeys.

Janet
11:30 AM

caese, the Nederlands is going to have to get a grip on the Antilles while they still can. They need to decide if they want to keep the "corrupt hornet's nest" or turn it over to Chavez or Colombia. But they need to decide fast or this is going to spiral out of what little control there is. Allthat lip service is not addressing the problems in my opinion. Those problems are EFFECTING us in the States.

thank you as always for the updates.

That's a sweeeeeet gift....especially if it contained money lol

The face resembles a turtle to me, but . . . Lord forgive me - I mean no insult to Your turtles!

just a few thoughts on the international spectrum.

Last week North Korea imploded the ping pong reactor. That was step one. We had to get that huge threat taken care of first. We can not allow a mad man to drop even a one kilo ton nuke on Seoul. Mission partially accomplished. NKstill possesses 8 stand alone deployable nukes.  The good news is they won't be enriching any more plutonium or uranium at that plant again. The issue of the remaining nukes (if they really exist - some doubt this, but it's playing with, well, nuclear fire if you don't simply assume they exist) will need to be negotiated away. That was the plan here all along. As I said months ago, letting a few billion in counterfeit currency flow thru Cuba and Aruba was better than starting a war with a guy that had a nuke. Can't say I agree with every aspect of it, but it's better than gettin' it on with NK after-all. They're small potatoes and you fight your fights however you can.

Iran - it's almost go time. We are ramped up and now ready to strike. We have moved two navy battle groups into the region and they are off shore waiting for the orders to flow. Israel is also ready to go in the event the US backs out. We have moved the 4th fleet into position in the southern Caribbean and are seemingly there to prevent a counter-strike from Chavez.

As each of the events unfolds, it gets closer and closer to the day when the smaller potatoes are eventually dealt with. But, it's always the major priorities get addressed first. It also makes it easier to address the small potatoes when the rotten corrupt potatoes have already been dispatched.

it takes the patience of a more than a mere mortal.

Still looking for a Dutch poster that has a copy of Joran's book.  I need some info that is supposedly contained in the book.  Please if anyone has a copy and is willing to help me find the information email me.  TIA  cindoal@yahoo.com   

On the Yahoo page it says empty nesters are adopting monkeys to keep as children.  I will be waiting on the front porch with my suitcase.... ::MonkeyHaHa::

Something seems fishy to me.  A couple threads back, one of our Dutch posters, Johan - I think, made a post regarding Patrick and in it he referenced (forgive me if I don't have the details correct . . . I don't know how to search for a poster's posts) McDonald's and his father helping Jossy Mansur with opening one (or some) on Aruba?  That struck me as rather odd.  Almost as if Jossy talked Patrick into somehow 'working it' ala Peter to put this whole issue to rest so to speak.

Again, I am very sorry if my memory does not serve.  Usually someone posts what I am thinking, so I just sit at my desk and read y'all's conversations.  But, no one ever said anything about his post and I'm always way behind.

Janet,  Happy Canada Day!  And, don't jump on me for questioning whether Jossy has an ulterior motive!  You know what 'they' say - "keep your friends close and your enemies closer."  Besides, I don't have it out for anyone.  I certainly do not want this to cause anyone to veer off and defend/attack Jossy Mansur.  Personally, regarding Jossy, I stand neutral.

 ::MonkeyWink::

 ::MonkeyHaHa::

Come on Rob, I have  all  my shots!!

always 1
 
if I were you I would be choosee!

::MonkeyWink::

Why Rob????

WhiskeyGirl wrote;

Well if Joran were in school that day, my guess is he might be sleeping in the closet or nurses room or something. I am still not absolutely positive he went to school Monday. But Sunday night he was likely very late to bed (4 a.m.?) and Monday night following the arrival of the posse he was up very late after being out gambling(not likely IMO) and then he and Deepak going with the group etc. I do believe the portion of the conversation with Patrick when Joran tells him Daury told him to go to school the next day just as if nothing happened. Sounds like legal advice to me ::MonkeyShocked:: and I think it is likely he followed that advice.

I'm just saying not to take the first offer. Let a few come in and then you'll have your pick of a new home.  ::MonkeyHaHa::

(http://a.abcnews.com/images/Nightline/abc_monkids5_080626_ssv.jpg)

Thank you Bleachedblack, that is so funny.  Now can you make her whine........

Does anyone know if there is still an active investigation going on in Aruba at this time?

Mariloo, the last we heard from CAPS, someone from the "state" was supposed to be there. But Klassend can probably telll you more.

Thanks always, I haven't been here in a long time and I don;t get to blog nearly as much as I did previously.  I have to take care of my Mother.  I appreciate the response.  It is so much nicer here than before.  There used to be so much arguing back and forth all the time.

!Youre welcome

Klaas, have ya'll ever thought about putting the school bus on a t-shirt before?  I sure would like to see all the old farts together again.   ::MonkeyDance::

Why ,don't you think it's all full of lies anyway ::MonkeyConfused::

I think it was on a t-shirt back then.  I'll have to check.  ::MonkeyHaHa::

As far as active investigation in Aruba, they claim there still is one but who really knows for sure?

http://www.trouw.nl/laatstenieuws/laatstenieuws/article1027596.ece

I have it; but my father is reading it at the moment so I don't have the copy at home right now. What are you looking for? I'll ask my dad to look for it.

http://www.amigoe.com/artman/publish/artikel_43975.php

reason given for these riots:

http://www.radionetherlands.nl/currentaffairs/region/southamerica/080630-curacao-finances-mc

simular scenes could take place on Aruba of the Dutch would interfere there.
same ingredients for interference are in place.

Aruba is more affected by the economic slowdown due to their dependence on tourism.
and also on Aruba corruption, political favourtism got attention thanks to Nico Jörg (and Brinkman - and even Bijleveld).

Aruba brags about being the only island not needing financial aid anymore starting in 2009.
but this might change due to economic slow down / oil prices.

Aruba would be even more upset if the Dutch would interfere because of their 'status aparte' since 1986.
only look at how much fuss Aruba made about the Plant / Mariott complex sale.

>>>SNIP

Aruba is more affected by the economic slowdown due to their dependence on tourism.
and also on Aruba corruption, political favourtism got attention thanks to Nico Jörg (and Brinkman - and even Bijleveld).  ::MonkeyTongue::

Most likely, but I want to know about something very specific that only someone with the book can tell me.

Please email me if you are serious about helping me.  I am looking for something specific that is supposed to be mentioned in there.  I can't elaborate on the forum at this time. I promised I would not make it public. Thanks.

Lala..Email me what you are looking for..I know someone with the book who would probably like to help.

I think this part Patrick is asking was Daury there then then=when Natalee (presumably) died.

J: Yeah, I agree with you, but…
P: But was he there then? (GBMW: I have no idea what Patrick is talking about; can’t figure that out…if Daury disposed of Natalee…he should have been there right? Maybe this is about something else)
J: No, Patrick, of course not.
P: Oh.
J: Of course not, of course not. It all happened so quickly, so quickly.

Lie right her....hesitated regarding sail....makes no sense. No a sail boat IMO

J: Yeah, he’s got his own sail…licence…thing.
P: Sailevidence, yeah. That boy knows what he’s doing then, yeah. Has he made her heavier to make her sink?

Patrick said himself he is a good judge of Character and knows how to read people and is obviously street wise. But yet his questions are laughable and there is no mention of any of Jorans friends,his motive that night or his past experiences drugging girls,working as a male prostitute or anything that is relevent to what really happened. This is a enormously lame attempt as working as a infiltrater trying to get justice for Natalee,exposing why she died and who helped make her dissapear and who is protecting Joran. Patrick himself says he followed the case since the beginning,hung around Joran for 7 months and this is all he came up with?

I don't care what anyone says and I am entitled to my opinion. Patrick is a big time snake and this whole confession and infiltration is fake,rigged and conspired by at least Joran and Patrick. I can read people also and I will bet everything I have this was all a scam and Joran and Patrick are both in on it. What sucks is they are going to make enormous money and there is little to nothing we can do about it. Joran doesn't need to ever to return to Aruba or Holland after this book starts selling in big numbers.

We agree 100% on this *******.  I was never fooled by Patrick and you want to know why?  Because I'm a good judge of character too and I spotted it a mile away.

Just like I said don't trust MOS.  I was right about him also.

NEXT

Always watch the future, present, and past-tenses for improper usage... they are always full of good clues showing us if the li'l pooter ball is telling the truth or not...

....

Quotes about dad / family

Page 131 2nd ride 13-01


P: But what about your dad…when you got home, didn’t he notice something about you?

Congruent.

Pat asks a question in past-tense fashion. The night is in the past, and
Patrick is prying for the information as to what HAD transpired.

JORAN'S REPLY:

J: My father is sleeping….Patrick, it was about 03:00 am or something like that…04:00 am.

Joran is rarely congruent in his answers, and I frequently find the primary leading cause to be because the kid is as full of chit as a Christmas goose. ::MonkeyHaHa::

Rather than replying with: MY FATHER ----WAS---- SLEEPING. He places himself in
the Joran Land of Make Believe... MY FATHER ----IS----- SLEEPING. He is re-creating
the event in his head. He then switches back quickly to past-tense to finish off
his sentence. Brain sputter!


PAULUS WAS MOST LIKELY NOT SLEEPING.

I am sure what we see about Patrick in his questioning is just what Joran was drawn to in him....mainly, Joran thought he was smarter than Patrick. Just as the Kalpoes and probably many others Joran feels superior #1 Sociopath.

Who is William?


Joran has mentioned the name he said he would take to the grave by now (mentioned; I’m not skipping anything from the book here).

P: But I want to, I want to meet that guy, you have to call him & tomorrow all of us we’ll ride up there, man.
J: Ok.
P: We’ll take William with us, we’ll make it a nice day, you know. Then he’ll say, oh fun…fight, you know!
J: I can call him now.
P: Yeah…just call him, make an appointment with him for tomorrow, we’ll go there, man.
J: Ahhh, I don’t have his number in this phone, I’ve got it in the old phone.
P: Ok, all right. That’s no problem, right?
J: I’ll give him a call tonight.

That may be true but Patrick acts like he is smarter then everyone also and was in full command,even bragging how he has Joran wrapped around his fingers and the master at infiltration. Everything he says appears to be opposite of the truth. He even threatens Joran by shooting him if he found out he hurt Natalee. Hardly the way to get the truth from someone and almost assures they would never admit to doing bad things to Natalee. There is far more information then just Patricks character that lead me to believe this was all a scam.

Glad we agree San  ::MonkeyCool:: I suspect most everyone from SM who has followed this from the beginning and watched Patrick closely feels the same.

And they were.  It got changed to help Paulus with an alibi.  Let's not forget all these PV's that were given by Paulus and Joran were edited to help the Sloots.

Did they ever ask one of the Kalpoes in their PV's if the brothers were home on the night in question.  If they did what was the date.

Why would someone with a reputation to uphold such as Devries risk it on someone in a fake sting? I guess I am out numbered, but I think Patrick was for real. I'm ready flame me........ :2ukli:

I believe de Vries was for real also...but I think Patrick saw an opportunity and he and Joran cooked this up without de Vries' knowledge.

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Hasn't it been about this all along.

No flames bleached.  I'm entitled to the way I think.

San of course you are entitled to your opinion,
we all are  ::MonkeyWink::. You are absolutely right money is what drives many people. Having watched the interview, I just don't think either Patrick or Joran could have been as good a pair of actors to fool me and many others including a very large portion of  citizens of Netherlands. Kinda like the Skeeters tape in my opinion......even in that tape had the words spoken by Deepak been altered from "we didn't" to "we did " have sex with Natalee (I do not believe they were altered) one only needed to hear the intonation and disgust in Deepaks voice when he spoke the "she dressed like a slut" segment to know there was hate in his heart and no remorse for what he/they did , which no amount of acting or alteration could remove. I just don't think Joran and Patrick are academy award material.

Why would De Vries claim the case is solved and Beth is at peace? Are you kidding me? Are you telling me he actually thought the case was solved?  ::MonkeyNoNo:: I have a great deal of respect for his Investigative abilities and he has to be in on it,he may have found out at the end I do not know..But a million dollars can persuade people easily,even De Vries. People can be that sure of themselves and can go on a limb when they are backed by Governments and all that matter,he risked very little. If he is on the same side as the OM and everyone involved except the Family,who is going to expose him? No one was supposed to second guess and this was all supposed to be over,except anger towards Joran and Daury. Patrick and De Vries would make there millions,Case closed and Aruba would get back there precious tourism. The negative news coverage would be over and we would hear occasional rumors about Daury and what part of the world Joran was gallivanting. They would announce they are reopening the case so they do not have to hand over anything and in turn we would never hear anything again.

We were all supposed to fall hook line and sinker for this,of course hardly anyone follows the case like we do here at SM. So for the General public and casual observers this whole infiltration looked real,makes sense and is over except for catching Daury.

My guess is he sold out and was paid hamsomely for it. However,if things were to ever change,De Vries would be the first one that would love to crack this case. I bet he learned a lot after exposing KJ,Carlo,PVDS,Vocking,Wit and the corruption in his first report. Did he ever say anything more about the cover up and the obvious? No he didnt and I am sure he was told to back off just like Jossy and realized it was a no win situation. You can play along or not play at all. JMHO

I'm there with you for now BB...so you're not alone.  It's hard not to agree with so many monkeys that I truly respect and value their opinion.  My opinion on this is based for the most part on the reputation of Devries.  But the more I think about it I can't fathom the idea that Patrick, for any amount of money; would risk becoming an outcast in Holland as Joran is now.  If it is true that it was all a scam...and it's found out, I don't think he would have it any better than Joran did.  There would be too much at stake....Patrick has children.  If it is true, it would have had to be all about the money; I just don't believe he needed money that bad. 
(Putting on flame retardant housecoat before pressing the post button)  ::MonkeyWink::   

I asked flipper/donnie about this and he said he believed that William was a friend of Patrick's...and is also a freefighter, (whatever that is, lol).

What does Patrick have at stake if he is backed by the Aruban and Dutch Governments? He gets to become a millionaire and the only one who can ever expose him is the Pathological liar Joran,who wouldnt anyways because Patrick made him rich and got everyone off the hook. So he's a Millionare and a Patriot to his countries. This was a no brainer for Patrick.

BTW: He really has a lot of respect for his girlfriend and kids,snorting 2-3 lines of coke a day,screwing whores,gambling and carrying a gun. He is hardly a Family man and the picture we saw of his GF and two kids hardly tells us he is a good man. For me it's not just his character but his actions that have me convinced he is a fake and a liar. JMHO

Can we trust DeVries and not Patrick? That is where I am right now. Isn't DeVries working on the Aruban cover-up as we speak? I'm thinking DeVries may have fallen a little for Patrick, but is re-thinking parts of it.

I agree with you bleached black. 

I haven't seen one word from De Vries since his first report about the Cover up. It's like someone writing a great Mystery Novel pointing in one direction with new crucial facts that need top be followed up on,but then does a complete 180 and never speaks of it again. I haven't  heard anyone mention that he will bring it up again,only the reports that he is going after PVDS.

It reads like that hesitation moment was something he let slip out, and wanted to
reel back in.

WHO HAS A SAIL LICENSE?

Joran said on P & W he said something he shouldn't have... he's probably

right about that on many levels.

We just have to ferret it out! ::MonkeyWink::

A GOOD reporter will not tip his hand. Why would you let those you are investigating know what you are doing??? The Dutch posters here seem pretty  confident. I completely understand your skepticism though!

 :smt102

They aren't academy award material and for me it's more then obvious this was a cooked up shame. Supposedly they had 7 months together and all we saw was 20 minutes of footage in Dutch and what wasn't released Joran tells a completely different story in Patrick's book. The only thing that is worth anything is little slips by Joran and I would like this book a whole lot better if it was Fear and Loathing in Holland and not a ridiclous sham in regards to J4N.

We can agree to disagree..I still love you guys  ::MonkeyTongue::

http://patrickvandereem.nl/stories/misinformatie/

very long piece of text by Peter Schouten (spokesman for both Peter R. and Patrick).

mainly talking about how Patricks past and present is getting mixed up by some media.
and other untrue bits appearing in newspapers.
like that he carried a gun and that he offered JvdS cocaine.

i think ******* is right that Peter R. got stuck for a while when he saw how deep the cover-up went.
but when Patrick contacted him he couldn't let this opportunity pass.
i have no doubt Peter R. will get back on PvdS, the cover-up and everything he went through in his first broadcast.
maybe this autumn, maybe next year. there is no way Peter R. is going to leave it like this.

the Patrick infiltration was only an unexpected opportunity he couldn't let go.
the fact that it wasn't enough for Aruba to detain JvdS and start up the trial might be blessing in disguise.

because now Peter R. will have to continue investigating.
and i don't think he will be get the opportunity to get PvdS in a confession-car.
so he has to go all the way back to those first days in 2005.

like i set many times before.
he has had so many cases, taking dozens of broadcasts - spanning over more than 10 years.

i can't look in the future but maybe when all this is solved (not only in theory but in reality) this Patick episode is only going to be one chapter or just one page in the final book about the solving of this.

I'm thinking joran said this:J: Yeah, he’s got his own sail…licence…thing.
But was going to say this:
J:Yeah,he's got his own sail boat company.

Haha..I believe Joran is embellishing his lies..Although I suspect there are partial truths he said about Daury like him having a license to operate a sail or a boat. Tiny little truths in everything,like you have to go to school,I have known him since a kid,I would die for him,take his name to the grave and I have stuff on him too..Ok his name is Daury..Forget what I just said  ::MonkeyTongue::

Mr Pink

(http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa118/Observer00000007/PaulSailingbiz.jpg)

******* wrote;

I hear ya *******. I also agree it is hard not to blur the lines... as my sig line says. Is Patrick a good father/husband? if you were to ask most women I am sure most would say by all means NOT. Was he, having the characteristics and habits you mention a good choice for DeVries for the work he did? Joran would not have been friends or trusted to the extent needed to get the information if it had been another way.

I don't believe DeVries knew anything about this at all. But I will say I am suspicious of Patrick and Joran.  Joran is getting money to globe trot and I would hate to think that Patrick is where that money is coming from.  I have full trust for DeVries but am very worried that Patrick took him to the cleaners and put his reputation on the line.  JMO

I tried a few combinations of words - Daury + Atrako, Davin + Atrako, etc... to see if there was something archived somewhere and didn't really find anything.

A documented robbery is probably easier to find than his sailing license.

What about Steve Croes does he have a sailing license? ::MonkeyTongue::

I'm not sure you would need a sailing license unless you were operating a boat like the Fiesta, Bahia, Rumba, Octopus, etc. etc. etc.

someone just operating their own small pleasure craft probably does not need one - but just guessing.

Was there a picture early on that was of the Alabama kids on a sailboat?

He has all the charateristics for infiltrating Joran,unfortunately during the infiltration he became brain dead and lost all his instincts to ask the obvious questions that needed to be asked. Patrick is far smarter and much more knowledgeable then some are thinking that have followed this since the beginning. I do not think he is a idiot at all,quite the opposite as he knows all about Tourists last night in Aruba,Drugs,Pimps,Liars and criminal behavior in Aruba....Not to mention being a teenage hoodlum and other suspects in this case.. Very street smart and I seriously Doubt Joran fooled him this badly.

Anybody want to ride a banana?

Joran says they are very appealing!


(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w214/iliketoN0KTEM/TRRTRTYRY.png)

http://www.aruba-redsail.com/watersports.shtml

http://www.arubawatersportcenter.com/tuberides.htm

http://www.enjoyaruba.com/watersport/index.htm

I would think to operate any boat in Aruba you would definetly need a license. I bet most of Jorans rich friends had one. Most definetly the Gottenbo's,SGC,MD,GVC and LVR. Like driving a car you probably have to be 18 to obtain a license.

Make arrangements with one of the watersports centers along Palm Beach or by calling Caribbean Parasail (tel. 297/586-0505), Island Watersports (tel. 297/593-5436), Pelican Adventures (tel. 297/587-2302; www.pelican-aruba.com), or Red Sail Sports (tel. 877-RED-SAIL in the U.S. and Canada, or 297/586-1603 in Aruba; www.redsail.com).

Banana Boats

A ride on a banana boat is a fun way of enjoying Aruba's beautiful beaches. So, if you love horseback riding, well, you'll love this fun-filled way to ride the waves of Aruba. Come with your family or friends and have a great time on one of the most famous beach toys of the island. And please don't forget to bring your sun block. Make arrangements with one of the watersports centers along Palm Beach.


----

Funny how they have a big concentration of them right around the Palm Beach Marriott hotel, ain't it? ::MonkeyRoll::

Big Banana = Joran = Oxymoron ::MonkeyRoll::

(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w214/iliketoN0KTEM/TRYYRTTYYR.png)

::MonkeyCool::

 :smt023 :bigup:

MMMM, I love the smell of Play doh - but what does WILLIAM mean in Jorans language???

His "Willy"???

No,that cant be right!!!

I don't think William is one of his roommates in Arnhem. I believe there names are Alex,Mark and Chris. If the report was true,maybee he's that ritch kid that was housing Joran in Drachten Holland? I screen shot and posted that mercedes leaving that housing complex with a mob gathered to lynch Joran..lol

(http://img79.imageshack.us/img79/341/jsloot02sf2.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)

(Screens taken from Dutch TV of what appears to be Joran with a friend and his parents)
(http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/7703/duh3zz7.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
(http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/7565/duh2pd9.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)

The only William I can think of is the one Natalee was supposed to have callled on her cell phone.

And William Cremer, the attorney for Deepok and whats his name.....but who else is there???

One of our Dutch monkeys flipper/donnie has read Patrick's book.  I emailed him the text and asked "who is William"...He said that William was a friend of Patrick's that was also a freefighter...I'm not sure what that is.

Oo Friend of Patricks? Thanks..I was thinking friend of Jorans  ::MonkeyWink::

I think Freefighter is a fighting style in Holland like our Ultimate Fights where they can use feet,hands or wrestle when fighting.

Thank you Texasmom!!!! ::MonkeyCool::

Yes,  that is what I was thinking too.

Well, another day then....nite everyone.

You're welcome always 1, and good night!

Thanks flipper/donnie!   ::MonkeyCool::

Monkeys - Julia Renfro is the editor of BonDia which is owned by John Chemaly, Jr.  A certain monkey informed us that Renfro and Chemaly attended the event that night and were part of the video action.  The next day, Renfro put on her perfirmance when Beth arrived.  Julia owns one of the watersports companies that has those banana boats.  Our monkey friend also told us that John Chemaly, Sr. recommended Paulass for a job on Aruba.  The Sloots and the Chemalys must know each other to some degree if John, Sr. recommended Paulass for a job.  Chemaly, Jr. is gay.

John Chemaly Jr. age in mid 30s I guess was 34 at time of pic on My Space.  Handsome man.  Got a lot of girls.  His dad is the one who recommended Palus for his job

Who else in Julia Organization is a Photographer...A movie was made that night in question. She was there she also was part in the xxx movie. Now hwo else in her organization was there.

I wonder if hubby was there, maybe the hubby is just a front

she goes everywhere with the cam, but she was there becase she took the pictures and she was also IN the pictues XXX and now I need the Lion part of that XXX

she is involved to the theeth. she Was there at the tables that night.

Aruba Today and Bondia are the same.  Julia Renfro is their Editor.
The war is the between the Diario against these two and it seems that one of the news paper is in financial problem.

Yeah that must be it! Thanks.

Don't know about that...sometimes Joran has difficulty with words...it's his way of talking / slang. He was only trying to explain why Daury could have handled himself on the water.

De Vries has said he's working on the case; that has been in published interviews & he has said it on camera but we haven't aired that. Our reporter asked Peter about Paulus at the bookpresentation (because those rumours are going on) and he only gave a little smile...wouldn't reply to the question.

This is interesting SS
  Julia owns one of the watersports companies that has those banana boats.  Our monkey friend also told us that John Chemaly, Sr. recommended Paulass for a job on Aruba.  The Sloots and the Chemalys must know each other to some degree if John, Sr. recommended Paulass for a job.

She (Julia) has also something to do with sail/yachting regatta's (yachts and Cat races )

is this that John (left)?
"LEAIRRI"

Man
35 jaar oud
Oranjestad, AW
Aruba

(http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p257/jcaua/DSC00085.jpg)


 John Chemaly :Gegevens 
Status: Single
Hier voor: Netwerken, Vrienden
Woonplaats: Aruba / Miami, Florida
Lichaamsbouw: 182cm / Atletisch gebouwd
Etnische achtergrond: Blank
Sterrenbeeld: Kreeft
Roken / drinken: Nee / Ja
Kinderen: Ooit
Opleiding: WO
Beroep: Self employed
 

John Chemaly is part of the MySpace Group Telluride Gay Ski Week

ganadornan cu gerencia y staff di Bon Dia Aruba

(http://www.olympicaruba.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=213&g2_serialNumber=2&g2_GALLERYSID=8f4ba3db015f899f804ec0dd3032ac18)
(http://www.olympicaruba.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=209&g2_serialNumber)

interesting Johan. Thanks.

ha ha ha ha !!!

Lala's - you trickie girl!!!  ::MonkeyHaHa::

The connection ?

(http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh25/johan555/johnkopie.jpg?t=1215001557)

were was Shango's post from Rob

John Chemaly
Status: Single

Hier voor: Netwerken, Vrienden
Woonplaats: Aruba / Miami, Florida

Johan,
somewhere in that area. I don't have the exact address.

carpe, oh carpe of the short memory.  jvds doesn't have a banana, it's more like a sweet gherkin.
dennisintn

Comite olimpico  ::MonkeyHaHa::

(http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh25/johan555/Juliakopie.jpg?t=1215002235)

we wil find out Rob  ::MonkeyHaHa::

(http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/misc/nytlogo153x23.gif)
New york times 2008
A long-time Aruba restaurateur, John Chemaly, recently opened Valentino's at 43E Noord (telephone 33455), specializing in northern and southern Italian cuisine. Dinner for two runs about $75 to $100. Among appetizers is seafood crepes. The linguine pescatore entree is a combination of lobster, squid, jumbo shrimp, mussels and clams. At Heidelberg, 136 L. G. Smith Boulevard (26888 and 33020), now in its ninth year, the 15 entrees, at $12 to $15, include sauerbraten, schnitzel, roast goose and broiled catch-of-the-day. The wine list is entirely German. Accommodations

All room prices are for seven nights and meals are not included. The island's telephone code is 599-8.

(http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh25/johan555/Bondiakopie.jpg?t=1215003195)

yes we will!  ::MonkeyHaHa::

YES
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/Aruba/hunterdedeandwieny.jpg)

http://www.telluridegayskiweek.com/

(http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p149/Morgan2112_2006/BONDIA2.jpg)

SS Angela works with Julia
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/Aruba%20Reporters%20Lawyers/angelaM1.jpg)

VIANA
(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub4/viana.jpg)

(http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh25/johan555/john-juniorkopie.jpg?t=1215005423)

this is his " space "

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=85353641

(http://a177.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/128/m_eaff45137e638a988da941b2fda47700.jpg)

I have the idea that the chemaly's (dad& son) and Julia are involved in this case  .
I think they send Julia to beth to mislead her etc . are they also involved in a coverup?
There is also some bad blood between Jossy and the chemaly's!

and SS said in the S&S thread :
CAPS, I read through his MySpace this afternoon.  There are some very suggestive things in the four pages of his friends which indicate to me that he is gay.  I wondered if this might be his connection to Guido Wever and possibly the reason he was there that night.  Guido is also reported to be gay.
 

Carlos Viana Quick Facts
Main Areas: Acupuncture, Addiction, Bach Flower, Biocompatible Dental Support, Clinical Nutrition, Colon Therapy, Energy Healing, Heavy Metal & other Detoxification, Regeneration Therapy, TCM
Best Sellers: co-arthur, 101 Great Ways to Improve Your Health, SelfGrowth.com
Career Focus: Arthur, Speaker, Owner and Medical Driector, Viana Natural Healing Center
Affiliation: I.A.O.M.T, I.A.A.C.N., ICBR, Toxicology Board - World Health Products
http://www.selfgrowth.com/experts/carlos_viana.html

No doubt!

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub2/arubatodaystaff.jpg)

Precisely, Mr. Dennis!

It was an OXY-JORAN.

BIG BANANA - SMALL GHERKIN.[/b]

 ::MonkeyHaHa::

OXY-JORAN  ::MonkeyLaugh:: NOW THAT'S FUNNY!!

LMAO

Yup!!
 ::MonkeyLaugh:: ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::cartwheel:: ::MonkeyCool::

Moi?  Say it ain't so!  ::MonkeyCool::

Moi?  Say it ain't so!  ::MonkeyCool::
[/quote]

Lala's
I found the address you asked me to add to the map!!! and who it connects to. You're a trickee one!!!

 ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyHaHa::

Rob
Put these addresses in your map...thanks.

800 Calughton Island Drive
Miami, FL 33131


10771 188th St.
Miami, FL 33157


3971 Andra Avenue
Doral, FL  33178

Lala's
I found the address you asked me to add to the map!!! and who it connects to. You're a trickee one!!!

 ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyHaHa::
[/quote]


Just checking all leads...whether they make sense or not.  I have other monkeys to thank for the addresses.

Rob
Please make that Claughton...fingers are not quite awake yet. Sorry.

the bold address is not registering.

yellow circle is where 800 Calughton Island Drive
Miami, FL 33131 is located.

(http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p149/Morgan2112_2006/FLORIDACRIMINALMAP4.jpg)

(http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p149/Morgan2112_2006/FLORIDACRIMINALMAP6.jpg)

These Aruban do love their fancy places, don't they.  I found an old haunt of Ernesto's and I would love to have the income to live there.  It was a great location with a great view.

Oh yeah,I agree.I doubt all he told patrick was truth......joran just cannot help lying and in reading these excerpts from the book,I wonder why(when joran was really into his rows of lies)patrick kept interupting him.Greta did the same thing on some of her interviews.....ask a question then interupt the answer.

And wasn't it rumored that renskank has or was involved in one or more of the sailboat businesses?

Good morning monkeys!  This is OT but I need your help as I see some of you also post in the Missing Person thread.  Can anyone give me the names of some of the cases that involve internet preditors?  People that went missing becuase of their activities on the internet?  I have a 12 year old daughter and I just can't get my points across in her. I thought maybe I could "show" her the consequenses of bad actions.

If this post needs deleted or moved I understand.

Thanks.

IMO

The detention in Nov/Dec 2007 was all a sham.  It was a created opportunity for the Aruban "powers that be", Paulus, Peter, Patrick, Joran, Deepak and Satish to collaborate a simplie closure to the Natalee Holloway case by implicating "only" Joran ... a closure that would appease/ silence the family ... a closure that would allow a missing American citizen to become a distance memory ... a closure that would allow Aruba to once again become the "Happy Island".  Also, Paulus was given assurance that Joran would be provided with "protection" following the airing of the video recording.

The inconsistent inconsistent/incriminating declarations of the suspects would be non issues.  Paulus van der Sloot would be a non issue.  Deepak and Satish would be non issues.  The sons of the elite (pimps) would be non issues.  The witnesses and evidence would be non issues.  Those who aware of or participated in the corrupt Aruban investigation that has denied Natalee Holloway justice would be a non issue.

Also ... I believe the wine throwing incident was all staged.

IMO

Think about it.  Why was this video recording (crucial evidence) allowed to be aired?  Beth and Jug have been told by the Aruban "powers that be" since the getgo that thier role in publicly  revealing evidence in the case was "compromising" the investigation.

Also ... why is the OM giving Joran protection.  Is there nobody in that Aruban investigation advocating on the behalf of Natalee Holloway?

Janet

+++++++++

Arubans wary of fifth car trip in Holloway case
Monday 25 February 2008
 
Dutch tv crime reporter Peter R de Vries set up a fifth car trip to try and get Joran van der Sloot to confess to murdering US teenager Natalee Holloway after the Aruban public prosecution department said the original four recordings did not contain enough evidence, the Volkskrant reported on Saturday.
 
Aruban officials told De Vries and his team at a secret hotel meeting that the tapes did not contain enough new evidence, the paper says in a reconstruction of events surrounding the tv programme which claimed to solve the mystery of her disappearance.

Aruban public prosecutor Hans Mos told the paper he did not want to have anything to do with the extra car trip because he was afraid it could be construed as entrapment and blow the case.
 
The final car trip with Van der Sloot and his 'friend' Patrick van der Eem took place on January 29 in a borrowed car which had been hastily kitted out with recording equipment, the paper said. The original had already been sold.

During that trip, Van der Sloot said he was not sure if Natalee had been dead when a friend dumped her body at sea.  After the press release was issued claiming the case had been solved but without giving any further details, De Vries told the paper he hoped that Van der Sloot would again phone his 'friend'.
 
But website VKMag picked up a page on De Vries' website which identified Van der Sloot. The page had been prepared for release after the programme was aired on Sunday but had gone live by mistake.

http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2008/02/arubans_wary_of_fifth_car_trip.php


Joran Van der Sloot
Pauw & Witteman
Phone Interview prior to the airing of the video recording.
February 4, 2008

Question: you have contact with your dad, does your dad have contact with the OM?

Joran: I don't know, I think he had a conversation with Mr. Mos, but it's only about security.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2561.msg336476;topicseen#msg336476


AMIGOE
February 9, 2008

<snipped>

The OM has called on the media in a press release not to launch a witch hunt around the Holloway-case and to abstain from investigations of their own.  “The interest for this case seems to degenerate into a witch hunt, whereby several people are being menaced in an intimidated manner”, is the opinion of justice.  To the OM, these practices are ‘unacceptable’.  People are being marked as suspects without any confirmation and menaced as such with all its consequences.  Besides, other than causing big unrest, journalistic investigations harm the criminal investigation, said justice.    “Without wanting to harm the value of free press coverage, justice would like the media to be reserved, exactly for the above reasons.”   

“The cameras were all around his house”, informed district attorney Dop Kruimel.  “He had to take on a lawyer for the contact with us.”

If necessary, the OM will also protect the suspect Joran van der Sloot

The OM is also of the opinion that yesterday’s words of Justice-minister Rudy Croes were premature.  Croes wants to declare Joran van der Sloot persona non grate.

“The boy is not convicted yet; besides, there are a whole lot of judicial hurdles ahead, before he can be refused admission to Aruba. He is legally admitted anyway”, was the reaction of the OM

<snipped>

http://www.amigoe.com/english/

 ::MonkeyLaugh:: ::MonkeyLaugh:: ::MonkeyLaugh::


If necessary, the OM will also protect the suspect Joran van der Sloot


What do you mean IF NECESSARY, Hans Mos... you little puss.

THAT IS ALL THE OM (insert name here for whomever it may be today) HAS BEEN

DOING THROUGHOUT THE ENTIRE CASE! PROTECTING THE VANDER SLOOTS AND

THE KALPOES, PROTECTING THE CRIMINALS OF ARUBA.

 ::MonkeyTongue::

Strange there is all these openly gay people in Aruba when it was taboo in August 2005, according to Guisette Croes, who was not afraid and not related to the Government lawyer, Hendrick Croes… ::MonkeyWink::

www.365gay.com/newscon05/08/082105Aruba.htm

Kippy ... I am looking for a case where a girl was dropped off at a Target or K-Mart, a little while back. I will post it in the Musings thread if I find it.

Tamikosmom…I agree with you, again…LOL

The boy is not convicted yet. FEB. 2008 -HANS MOS


Joran is a man now Hans, only in age, not in mental status or penis size.


... but I think AT THIS TIME, you need to start calling that little evil

son of a bitch A MAN. IMHO

 ::MonkeyCool::

Carpe,
 ::MonkeyDance::

Thank you so much Mum, you have no idea how much this means to me. ~hugs~

 ::MonkeyDance::

two-step!!!!

::MonkeyWink::

Kippy

My "ten" year old grandson is begging his Mom to let him chat online with his friends from school.  My daughter believes it is just a stepping stone in a direction that may not be in his best interest.  For now ... my grandson is only allowed on the internet for school assignments and ... "family" researches ... on a "common" computer.  However ... my daughter realizes that she will not always be in a position to control what her son has access to "outside" the home.

You are so wise to be taking the time to educate your daughter through not only your words but also reasearch in regards to the dangers that internet connections/relationships could possibly pose.

Parents today have so much to be aware in terms of the dangers that are lurking out there in regards to children and teens.


Mum

Thank you.  Sometimes I feel alone in a crowd on this forum in regards to my "speculations".

 ::MonkeyHaHa::

Janet

Tamikosmom...LOL...I know the feeling...I feel am all alone with some of Freddy "speculations"... ::MonkeyHaHa::

i messed up that qoute again.
my response there is the one without the capitals.  ::MonkeyWink::

Janet, Thank you for your kind words.  Obviously I'm not a wise as I thought I was.  I thought I had a good grip on things until I found she emailed a picture of herself (school pic) to some stranger who professes his love for her.  We lecture, watch, snoop, pry, limit, question, nag....I am just so shocked.  This makes me sick.

Sorry for OT, I just knew you all were smart and could help me.  Thanks.

OT:Body believed to be Blake Stone is found

15 YO  Alabama boy missing since March body has been found at neighbors house in a freezer.

(http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/7228/freddysr7.png) (http://imageshack.us)


http://arubanboycott.blogspot.com/2007/08/friday-night-funny-new-nightmare.html

Nothing but a smokescreen to appease those who would not be satisfied unless Paulus was implicated!!!

If the Superior Court determined in its unfavorable ruling in regards to compensation for Paulus van der Sloot for wrongful detetion ... that Paulus did declare in front of witnesses on the morning of May 31, 2005 that he was in the area of McDonalds at 4:00 AM on the morning when Natalee Holloway went missing ... WHY WOULD PETER DEVRIES CONTEND THAT PAULUS IS ONLY GUILTY OF SMUGGLING A CELL PHONE TO HIS SON WHILE DETAINED?

Then there are all the inconsistencies in Paulus van der Sloot's declaractions.  It is said that lies are created to cover the truth.  What is the truth that Paulus van der Sloot is covering.

Peter Devries is the investigator ... he knows better.  Hey ... Beth, Jug and Dave as well as Monkeys had it figured out long ago that Paulus van der Sloot was involved from the getgo yet ... Peter and Patrick  BOTH distance him from participation other than smuggling a cell phone to Joran.

GMAB

Janet

+++++++


Dutch Crime Reporter Peter De Vries Goes Inside Joran van der Sloot's Explosive Tape
Friday, February 08, 2008

VAN SUSTEREN: Do you think -- a lot of viewers send me e-mails. I have a -- we have a blog here, Gretawire.com, and they send a lot of comments. They're very suspicious that Paulus Van Der Sloot has more of an involvement than simply just the father of the man who was caught on tape.  Do you have any information that in any way incriminates Paulus Van Der Sloot?

DE VRIES: Well, Joran told on tape that his father smuggled a mobile phone, a cell phone in the prison when he was the first time arrested. And he was a judge at that time, so that's -- that's a sin ...

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,329847,00.html


Monday, April 14th, 2008
The ongoing boycot Aruba saga

I am not going into any claims of possible corruption in Aruba from the moment Natalee disappeared because I do not have the knowledge, nor the evidence, that there has been any official government corruption in this case. God knows if the father of Joran has used personal contacts to try to influence the outcome of the case when he was a judge in training. If so, than I would not call it official corruption, but the act of a man who is not even Aruban. I believe that many people who want to follow this kind or requests do also not have first hand information about true facts of corruption, but as followers just base their opinion on the suggestion and speculation of others.

http://patrickvandereem.nl/uncategorized/the-ongoing-boycot-aruba-saga/

i am looking for the traffic lights in the C&C area ! ::MonkeyHaHa::
i see something near nr 3
(http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh25/johan555/CarlosCHARLIEkopie.jpg?t=1215022998)

here is the bus station area

(http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh25/johan555/2499635204_2f26bd756a_b.jpg?t=1215023316)

Here another shot of C&C

(http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh25/johan555/CarloscharliesXXXXXXXXXXXkopie.jpg?t=1215024455)

for the pic above > use the scrollbar

Thanks Johan! ::MonkeyCool::

ANOTHER C&C
use the scrollbar

(http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh25/johan555/CARLOScHARLIES-sfROGGSkopie.jpg?t=1215026413)

here a death man in front of C&C  4 dec 2006

(http://aruba.punt.nl/upload/mortofront.2.jpeg)


http://aruba.punt.nl/?a=2006-12

Peter R. is smart so he keeps his cards close to his chest.
he has said more things about Paulus. "for his father i have some special thoughts" - didn't he say that on Greta?
don't think he is only going for the phone smuggling. that's is only what Joran said on tape.
Peter will open the entire can of worms eventually.

have you seen the first broadcast of Peter R.? before the one with Patrick?
if you had you can't say Peter R. thinks Paulus is only guilty of phone smuggling.

it wouldn't hurt if some think Peter R. is part of a sham.
it would only make him more determined to get the entire ditch exposed.

don't know how long it will take.
maybe after Mos is gone next year.
or after the Aruban election in 2009. or after Dutch election in 2010 or sooner.
but if you would ask me i think he will come with a new broadcast this autumn.

young of 16 aÑa abusa sexualmente at POS CHIKITO

wednesday, 02 july 2008 oranjestad(aan): one young of 16 year cu owing to leave marduga for of his cas for bay at his grandmother owing to being abusa sexualmente close of pos diminutive. have one investigacion andando the momentonan here door of jeugd provided that zeden politie for so try place hand on the person responsible for her caso here. as cos is bayendo all cos is indica cu 2008 will become uno record for thing is abusonan sexual cometi on we island. kico is pasando is the question cu have. near of one business conoci where have much movecion of adictonan in oranan of marduga is caminda the caso of abuse sexual did take lugar. the boy of 16 year owing to being grab y not can owing to defende his self at hand of the violador sexual here. police owing to being notifica y at once owing to busca contacto cu the departamento concerni cu is on good caminda for cu the investigacion. the young here was have one telephone cellular cune cual also the abusador sexual owing to succeed descend at water cune. eybanda have enough child is actuate bay school y this can is one danger if in the district here have one abusador so is march rond buscando menornan indefenso for viola.

http://news.diario-aruba.com/content/view/3309/30/

how about just calling him a male subhuman biped?
dennisintn

witch translator is that ******* ? ::MonkeyHaHa::
did you install PS ?

http://papiamentu.donamaro.nl/

It doesn't work very good and the results aren't much better when I clean it up with a portuguese translator. :(

Haven't installed PS,but will soon :)

http://www.amigoe.com/artman/publish/artikel_44010.php

CNN BREAKING NEWS

Former Colombian Presidential Candidate Betancourt rescued from jungle by commandos along with 14 others. Not sure if the 3 CIA contractors are among the rescued.

CNN reports there are some American among the rescued.

plane has landed and the people rescued will be seeing their first freedom in years. 15 on board.

::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyDance::

She looks suprisingly well after having been captive for 6 years!

Certainly, if the new witness who now claims to have been raped and possibly drugged by Joran holds up, obviously that would begin an entire new investigation and likely a new arrest, even if there was a ruling to release him in the matter of Natalee Holloway's disappearance. But personally I'm going to wait and see if this witness has a little more credibility than some of the others Jossy Mansur has produced to date. And his claim of there being two unidentified and unidentifiable other girls potential charges against Joran Va der Sloot - girls who can not come forward and he cannot name ... amounts to little more than character assassination until they are produced, or disclosed.

Fox, MSNBC, or whomever is not really doing much for the tradition of good journalism by continuing with some of that charade. Also undisclosed, but apparently true in part - is that the Dutch Government did name two Mansur's as linked to gun and drug smugglers, as well as money laundering activities in a leaked, Top-Secret report - for which Mansur filed a Human Rights complaint.

    2.2 Under a Royal Decree of 22 October 1994 the Interim Head of Aruban Security Service, A. Koerten, was instructed to carry out an investigation into the security and integrity of Aruba. A report on this investigation was produced on 20 April 1995, entitled Security and Integrity of Aruba: Context and Perspective.

    2.3 The report was issued as top secret and was sent to a limited number of state officials and institutions, named in the report.

    2.4 The report draws a picture of security in Aruba and mentions that foreign services fighting crime in the region are (sic)Aalmost unanimous in their opinion that the predominant image of the Aruban business community is one of joint services towards (laundering specialists of) regional drug cartels. The report mentions the authors by name and portrays them as criminals who were associated with criminal organizations involved in drugs trafficking, gun trafficking and laundering money obtained from criminal activities.

    2.5 Despite the fact that the report was classified as top secret it was leaked to the press and its contents became public. It is not clear who leaked the report. An investigation of the leak was carried out by the Dutch Internal Security Service in which it was supposedly found that the leaked photocopy was not made from a copy in the hands of the Minister of Dutch-Antillean and Aruban Affairs or another Dutch official. The investigation report did not state of which copy the photocopy was made.

Lastly, it is believed that Paulus Van der Sloot participated on a panel which agreed to extradite two relatives of the Mansurs to the US under serious charges some years back. One cannot be fair and balanced without at least mentioning that your primary source of information in this case may well have an agenda against, not only the Dutch in a political sense, but also Paulus Van der Sloot directly.
--------------------------------------------
Dan Thnks,

I can see taht a lot of work went into this piece, somewhat more than usual.

Very Apreciated.

Joran will be exonerated with time... im sure even u can feel that too.

Posted by: P in SE Asia | Friday, August 26, 2005 at 03:48 PM
-------------------------------

An Aruban reporter leaked information a few weeks ago that the police know from cell phone records that none of the boys returned home until 4am, and that Deepak then left again.

Posted by: DennisAOK | Friday, August 26, 2005 at 09:14 AM

http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2005/08/just_a_few_item.html

Great News!   ::MonkeyDance::

Thanks Rob!  ::MonkeyCool::

O/t the body of Brook Bennet has been found (Vermont) on her uncles place - Channel 6 news  Tulsa Oklahoma

What does the credibility of Jossy Mansur have to do with the witnesses who came forward and ... gave declaractions regarding a sexual assault by Joran.  Beth believe that Dennis Jacobs put pressure on these girls to retract their statements.  It makes perfect sense when you consider that Dennis Jacobs attempt since the getgo to distance Paulus and Joran from implication in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway.

I cannot comprehend why Jossy Mansur is being undermind.

******* ... who is the author of the first paragraph of your post.

Thank you

Janet

++++++++


Beth Twitty
'The Abrams Report' for February 24
February 24, 2006

TWITTY: There were two—I know of two young girls. One was 16 and one was 14 years of age, and it was difficult for these girls to do, but they did come forward. They had to hire an attorney. They gave statements to the police. You know, these were real girls that were coming forward.

We don't know what happened or what transpired, why that never went any further than it did. We don't know if it had something to do with—I was told that Dennis Jacobs (ph) had strongly—had talked to the girls and was really putting the pressure on them to retract this, so you know, we just don't know how far that some individuals in that police department were going to go to put a stop to those girls coming forward. But they were real girls and they had been assaulted by Joran under the influence of drugs.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11590518/


Beth Twitty
HANNITY & COLMES
April 11, 2006

TWITTY: Well, those young girls...those are the girls, who came forward this summer.  I believe they came forward in August, and were giving statements to the police as to what Joran had done to them. And from what I am reading in the same papers that you are, that these young girls, obviously, will feel more comfortable coming forward in New York. I mean, they were really pressured by several different people and officials on the Island of Aruba to retract their statements. And it was difficult enough for them to come forward as it was.

Janet it is Dan Riehl.. I posted it for a few reasons but also because of that Troll P from S.E. Asia who posted about 5 times. I was disgusted with Dan Riehl about a month before this article as he got really weird and partial towards the Joran camp on occasions. They went after Beth and Jossy because they were the most outspoken advocats of Natalee getting Justice. Victims and Witnesses have been scared to come forward with good reason and because Jossy asked them to give statements or got involved,that must mean he fabricated every person who came forward  ::MonkeyRoll::

Dan is a complete Moron..He talked to a Adult Proffessional who knew Joran and specificly told Dan that Joran raped and drugged other girls in Aruba before NH. It may have been after this article..I forget.

IIRC

Dan Riehl was an advocate for Natalee Holloway and her family in the very beginning.  Dan was the first to reveal a photo of Joran van der Sloot.  Apparently ... Joran contacted him and requested the photo be removed from the site and ... Dan and Joran have been "thisclose" ever since.

Have I got it right.

Janet

Yes he was a advocate then he just got plain weird. Joran sent him a email asking him to remove his picture on the blog before he was arrested and Dan obliged..As far as I know,he asked Joran some questions and never heard from him again. He talked to melody on the phone a few times and I am confident she trusts him and that was her post on the forum not long ago about Joran.

Dan at first did some great reporting and bragged of his phone bill to prove it. He had many of the same trolls that we have today buzzing in his ears back then who were friends of his on the forum. Long before he came out with the died by orgasm theory where he lost a lot of credibility. Besides becoming very weird he got tired of policing the forum and often he threw temper tantrums,erased posts,picked on good posters and lock the forum. It was the first site I found when researching this case and I stayed there until Joran was released.

Dan Riehl, plain and simply listened to Julia Renfro and no one else. In fact, I think he had a crush on her ( :smt078). I (along with many others) tried to set him straight. How I didn't get banned is beyond me, because I called him out quite often!

He became friendly with Moonshadow also didnt he? As you know she(Beryl Coder) is the listed owner of FOB2(Private NH Hate Blog) along with Chris Keating. They run this business..

http://moonshadowsandrainforests.com/

Yes, but it was Julia Renfro who was the influence for both Reihl and Moonshadow. Hook, line and sinker. Just curious, but I don't see Moonshadow quoted here much anymore from FOB2. Does she still post much?

******* ... it was unbelieveable how quickly the trolls were disbursed to discredit Natalee Holloway and her mother and ... uphold Joran, Deepak and Satish.  I chanced upon the CTV forum within the first week of Natalee disappearance and ... the investigative skills of the ALE and the prosecutor were being upheld with the arrest of the security guards.

I was taken in ... I drank the koolaid. It never occurred to me that that a corrupt investigation was protecting the main suspects.

I actually felt guilty for rushing to judgement in regards to Joran, Deepak and Satish just because of published reports that Joran was a son of a "judge" and ... video-tape did not record the Holiday Inn drop off.

It took me two days to realize that the trolls had an agenda and ... I have never looked back.

My first impression ... gut feeling ... regarding a situation is usually right but not always.

To this day I feel terrible because I was so sure that Mark Lunsford or his father was involved in the disappearance of his precious daughter ... Jessica.

 ::MonkeyNoNo::

JUSTICE FOR NATALEE HOLLOWAY!!

BOYCOTT ARUBA!!

Janet 

Freedomofblog2.com has now been suspended.

It's probably just a coincidence Chris Keating is originally from Michigan and the same age as Paul Brough. Also a coincidence that the server for FOB2 was in lansing michigan. About 2 miles from a address listed to Paul Brough. This is all a fact,but linking any of these people to the suspects is another story.

http://whois.domaintools.com/freedomofblog2.com

Janet,they infiltrated every forum with the most hateful lies I have ever read on the internet and they did so in the very beginning. As you know from the smaller forums some of these posters used dozens of names. When I went to FOK (Dutch Forum)I was warned there were plants there from the beginning also.

First time I have seen Freddy at work  ::MonkeyEek::

Yes, that's from a webshot album that was uploaded November 2005.  So we know Freddy was working at Champions before November 2005 just don't know if he was working there May 2005.

Wreck, re our conversation last nite about the William mentioned in Patricks book, I asked Crossbow who the other William might be and he said William Von Cromviort.  Did he have a boat and was he a free fighter????

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub4/championscnc.jpg)

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub4/championscnccaption.jpg)

Sorry, I don't know! That was the first time I heard "William" mentioned. I was being facetious abot "William" being Joran's "Willy."  ::MonkeyRoll::

That guy had a huge house and boats,I even posted one with GVC the other day..But I doubt he is this Friend of Patrick's and a Free Fighter..I would guess this William was a friend of Patricks that Joran met,a tough guy that was a fighter who he would bring with to meet this Daury... If you google Free Fighter in Holland most of the images are fighters.

BTW Patrick: How did the dinner and meeting go with Daury in Rotterdam? It never happened did it? Because he is in Aruba and his name is not Daury! Or did you not even bother to say anything more about in the book?

Always 1

Who is William Von Cromvoirt?  Was he related to Geoffrey van Cromvoit ... a suspect in the Natalee Holloway case?

Janet

+++++++++++


DETENTION OF FORMAL SUSPECTS

Karin Janssen:

1.  Mickey John - first and second-degree murder and capital kidnapping. 06/2005

2.  Abraham Jones - first and second-degree murder and capital kidnapping. 06/2005

3.  Joran van der Sloot - Suspicion of murder and kidnapping as well as being an accessory to murder 06/2005
 
4. Deepak Kalpoe - Suspicion of murder and kidnapping as well as being an accessory to murder. 06/2005

5. Satish Kalpoe - Suspicion of murder and kidnapping as well as being an accessory to murder. 06/2005

6. Steve Croes - Suspicion of murder and kidnapping as well as being an accessory to murder. 06/2005
 
7. Paulus van der Sloot - complicity to pre-meditated murder, complicity to kidnapping and murder and kidnapping. 06/2005

8. Geoffrey van Cromvoirt - criminal offenses that may be related to the disappearance" of Natalee Holloway. 04/2006

9. Guido Weaver - Assisting in the murder, heavy battery and kidnapping" of the teen. 05/2006

Deepak Kalpoe and Satish Kalpoe - Suspected of the primary criminal act of together with other people committing premeditated murder, alternately together with other people murdering somebody, more alternately rob a person of her liberty with fatal consequences and even more alternately, raping somebody and new suspicions. 09/2005

Freddy Arambatzis - Suspicion of having unspecified "physical contact" with a female minor. (Unrelated to the Natalee Holloway case.) 09/2005


Hans Mos:

Joran Van der Sloot/Deepak Kalpoe/Satish Kalpoe -suspicion of involvement in voluntary manslaughter and causing serious bodily harm that resulted in the death of Holloway. 11/2007

Yes, he is his dad.

Van Cromvoirt Son of Former Policeman


    BREDA/WILLEMSTAD (19-04-06) - Geoffrey van Cromvoirt is the son of a former policeman. His father, Willem, was eighteen years policeman in the Dutch town Breda when he decided (end 1997) to start his own business, according to the Dutch newspaper BN/De Stem.

    On 1 January 1998 he started Video Camera Beveiliging (beveiliging means security), a firm which aimed at the security of companies with video systems. In 1999, his father decided to move to the Dutch Antilles. According to an ex-colleague, he started at first on Bonaire by the name VCB Security. Meanwhile the company operates at several places on the Antilles. On Aruba it's one of the larger security companies. The Holiday Inn is one of their customers, the hotel Natalee Holloway disappeared on 30 May 2005.

http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2006/04/van_cromvoirt_s.html

Thanks ******* and Always 1

The owner of the Tattoo!  Could he be the Willy referenced in Patrick's book?

Janet

+++++++++

Karl Penhaul - CNN correspondent
NANCY GRACE
June 17, 2005

PENHAUL: We don`t have that answer yet. We are looking into that to see what the boat`s movements were. We do know from the owner, Marcus Williams  (sic), that Steve Croes did have a key to the boat. But the owner also tells us that the boat has a special electronic security system on it and he doesn`t believe that Steve Croes would have been able to take the boat without his permission. And he has described Steve Croes as a model employee, Nancy.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0506/17/ng.01.html

OMG

Greta reports and confirms the CIA contractors have been rescued.

O/T

San, can you please change the word in the last sentence in the Brooke Bennett thread to painful (from panful) and in the same thread reply #70, the picture is not of Brooke Bennett, it was two days ago, can you please take the name of that beautiful child off of the picture of that sick f'er. 

TIA

sorry pages behind and possible total out of the loop but

What about that guy Jethro Gesterkamp with the sailboat Octopus.
I don't remember if it was fact or rumor that he left the day after Natalee was taken.
I don't for a minute discount pvds as responsible as jurin , but maybe they involved him and/or maybe that is the person Patrick talks about. Jethro is dutch and I don't think he was "interviewed" by the ale.

Atrako...Jethro?

I fixed it Bearly.

He's the blonde guy right? I have seen him around and I believe he is Scubajaps husband or something like that. I think the rumors were the Octopuss dissapeared after Natalee.



Octopus Sailing Charters - Aruba
LesMes -

Captain Jethro Gesterkamp and his First Mate Jeff have been initiating delighted visitors to snorkeling and the relaxation of multi-hull sailing for over 25 years, the last 18 with Jethro's 40 ft trimaran sailboat, The Octopus. ... sailing a charterboat in Aruba can surpass Jethro's record. Conveniently located on the beach between the Holiday Inn and the Playa Linda Beach Resort, The Octopus ...www.octopus-aruba.com/index.html

Was that the boat that docked at the Marriott (or HI?) for many years but "disappeared" for several weeks the day after Natalee went missing?

OCTOPUS 
 
Business address BORONCANA 12, NOORD 
Legal form  SOLE OWNERSHIP 
Name of the company  OCTOPUS 
Date of commencement  16 AUGUST 1994 
     
   
OWNERS/PARTNERS 
 
GESTERKAMP, TOM ADRIAAN; 
Residing in  BORANCANA 12, NOORD, ARUBA 
Born in  THE NETHERLANDS, DEN HAAG on 23 SEPTEMBER 1957 
Nationality  DUTCH 
Position  OWNER 
Effective  8 NOVEMBER 1994 
Authority  FULL 

 SoloFlyer 07-20-2005, 01:39 PM
Registered User
        
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: The deep south
Posts: 1,387
The Octopus
If you'd like to call Jethro of the Octopus Aruba his new phone number is reported to be (297) 993-3739
his new website is
http://www.octopusaruba.com/. Odd this one is registered to a Tom Gesterkamp not Jethro Getterskamp. Registered 11-Jul-2005.


His old website was http://www.octopus-aruba.com/ Funny his domain did not expire until 17-Jun 2006 but he put it on HOLD on 18- June-2005.

I did not verify the information myself as I do not live on Aruba. But it was verified by a poster at Dan's blog FWIW.
-------------------------------
candi  scandi is offline
Registered User
        
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: portland, Ore
Posts: 11,191
Reading Dan Riehl's site several weeks ago, I read about a cruise boat which I thought was the Octupus but evidently was named something else.

Dan said this cruise boat was known for those 'rave' parties { where they play the music very fast with a lot of beats}, and that this boat was suddenly nowhere to be found at the same time Natalee went missing. He thought it could have been off in the Carribean somewhere, and said he wished they could locate the boat and also intimated that if they found the boat they might also find Natalee!

Did anyone else read this? It was about the time that we started really reading Dan's site.

----------------------------------
Could this be the "rave" boat that Tim Miller is aluding to in this LKL interview...seems this boat is "missing"....

KING: Any searches going on, on surrounding islands?

MILLER: You know what, we're interested in a boat that left here and went to Venezuela that we can't locate. So, I'm not going to say that it's not an impossibility and another thing I must say, there are some detectives here that's working this case, private detectives, that maybe Natalee's father doesn't even know. I mean, we've been in contact with a lot of people here. There's a lot of interest here and nobody is forgetting about Natalee. We're coming up with a lot of good information, but were not coming up with Natalee.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIP...12/lkl.01.html
----------------------------------------
07-20-2005, 05:27 PM
Soloflyer:
Strange thing is I emailed this guy this morning and the email was returned
Remote host said: 554 delivery error: dd Sorry your message cannot be delivered. This account has been disabled or discontinued [#102].

One more thing, I emailed Island Hopper who has been out of town and just got back. He said that a relative of Jethro, probably a sister named Anna Lisa Gesterkamp works for Aruba Today the newspaper on Aruba that has been very supportive of the Vandersloots and the Aruban Police including the arrests of the security guards early on. Anna Lisa Gesterkamp also had her birthday party last year on the Tattoo Party Boat which Steve Croes worked as the DJ for. It must be a very small island. Island Hopper is too busy to post any information today on the Octopus but promises to post everything he has about the Octopus tomorrow or Friday.
---------------------------------------------

The Octopus is sailing as usual and has not left the island waters for any period of time during or before Natalee's dissapearance. The website is currently under construction and is changing servers. You can contact them directly at rosalie@witty.com.

Posted by: ArubaFactsOnly | Tuesday, July 05, 2005 at 09:06 PM


http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26543

Obs and Wreck,
I think he is the x-husband of scubacrap.

I think it was more the the boat that left.  i remember popel in US and aruba posting that they could not find/get in touch with jethro.  And yes he was blonde/blue but old and sickly looking.

I don't recall where the Octopus docked, but would guess at the big hotel area.

I think I'll pass on believing that post for ArubaFactsOnly=arubaMisInformationOnly ::MonkeyWink::

 ::MonkeyHaHa:: Scubacrap......Hi, NM...nice to see you.

Great to see you too 2NJ!