Scared Monkeys Discussion Forum

YOU ALL KNOW THE RULES

(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/klaasend/w3.gif)(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/klaasend/wtc2.gif)(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/klaasend/w3.gif)

Yep, more than anyones I would like to see what LORENZO had to say.   :wink:

Very nice photo Klaas.

Klaas we only have his first name right?  Would you be surprised to hear his full name?

Me too Klaas, but I want to know why on earth they would even question Lorenzo, unless someone brought up his name.

They have to know something Shell.

No we have his full name.  Lorenzo Van Rijn

Edit:  I can see San slapping her head right now, lol  :lol:

I know! He is older than those boys, and was having a party as I recall, and was an alibi for someone, or the other way around? I forgot now :oops:

How did you know.  Can you see me :lol:   Do you have special powers.

This lady needs her rest now. Cya tomorrow you all. :)

Don't feel bad I forget all the time.  Just look at my above post :lol:

Nite Shell.

Did ya know GrannyToad has L_____O pics? Won't post em(which i kinda agree with).

I asked her if he looked like any former or current suspects and she said...

"What, like Joran or Paulus? You could say that. Or to put it another way...he would qualify for government work."

Nite Shell

GOODNIGHT EVERYONE

Thanks Klaas for all your hard work.

And how do we know the pictures she has are really him?  I have some photos that could be him but I'm not positive.  Why all this protection for Lorenzo???

Nite San - you're welcome!  See you tomorrow!

I think she will not post them because that was not the intention of the person who gave them to her. I don't know if they really are Lorenzo, but GT seems to think they are. And she is not a "i have a secret" or "i can't say right now" poster.

I also have a similar photo that was sent to me months ago that is supposed to be Lorenzo.  It was posted a couple months ago at the RU site and posted at SM as well.  For the same reason of GT I'm not going to repost it.  I would much rather read a witness statement than see a photo of Lorenzo anyway.

Me three.....

Night klaas, I have been lurking and reading off and on all night and now that I am caught up am going to call it a night myself. Night everyone.

Revisiting the Fishermen's Huts:

1) Woman attacked at Hadacurari Beach fisherman's huts week prior to Natalee's disappearance

2) J2K lied many times, first about the HI drop off, then about the Mariott dropoff, & how Joran got home from the huts

3) ALE involved in cover-up - perhaps helped by providing info about the previous attack as place to claim she disappeared from

4) Partial truth found in the lies

5) Deepak's urination spot in Malmok - huts right there at beach.
   Lighthouse, sand dunes, and rocks close-by

6) ALE doesn't think J2K at Marriott/Hadacurari Huts.

7) Fisherman saw no one, but later saw a light colored car or SUV

8) Comment about Satish running over a girl

9) How did Joran ger behind the wheel at the pond?

HUTS AT MALMOK BEACH BELOW THE LIGHTHOUSE AS SEEN FROM THE OCEAN
(http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h291/SunFreak2/Lighthousesteps.jpg)

ARIAL VIEW FROM OCEAN OF HUTS, BEACH, LIGHTHOUSE
(http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h291/SunFreak2/Ariallighthousepavementhuts-caption.jpg)


SO, if Natalee is sitting behind Deepak in the car, when Deepak gets out to urinate, Natalee could jump out right after him.  Natalee takes off running. Joran jumps out to chase her.  Satish slides into driver's seat & follows in car.  Between Joran & Deepak chasing her, Natalee was probably running scared for her life. She's drugged so she's not functioning well cognitively or with physical coordination.  She either falls on her own, is pushed (tackled) by Joran, or hit by the car and goes flying into the rocks.  She's bleeding profusely from a head wound and most likely other laceratons from the rocks.  They grab her, throw her in the backseat, getting blood on the seat covers and head liner.  Deepak & Satish are freaking out so Joran the level headed psychopath drives.  They pull over at the pond to wash the blood off, check on Natalee and figure out what to do next.  Now, I think they take Natalee to Joran's, and the Kalpoes go home.

Natalee makes her calls in here....
Is this where Joran involves Guido, Koen, Sander or Freddy or does he go to Paulus?

I'm turning out the lights's  as no udder munkey but me is here rattlin roun this cage tonight.

Shhhh....... don't wake Nemo.

I tried to read the last thread, but it's getting late and I couldn't finish.  If I had stopped reading 15 minutes earlier and come here, SunFreak wouldn't have been all alone.   :(   But I learned a few things reading tonight - let me know if I missed anything important.   Many of you like grits; I have never tasted them.  Waffle House - ain't none around here that I know of; we have IHOP (International House of Pancakes).  Klaas rocks and wants to see Lorenzo's statement.  We all hope Larry is correct and we'll get some answers.  We all feel for Dave, who said his tape off of Skeeter's hard drive is very clear and Dana is the bestest.  Deepak is in Aruba, not Florida and his 5/31/05 statement is up.  Don't know if I'm all caught up but SunFreak took all the snacks with her when she left.  


Never doubt that a small group of concerned citizens can change the world.  Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has.  Margaret Mead

Morning, Monkeys.  Lots of theories and speculation going on and so much of it seems so plausible.  I think the truth would have put all the theories to rest, but I think SunFreak might be onto something.  Is this not when they were "driving fast?"  I think that was when they had a very seriously injured or dead Natalee on their hands.

CALL OUT TO MRS. RED:  There must be Waffle House's in the Northeast.  I saw the website of John Kerry's girlfriend and the theme song was by John Kerry, and he was singing, "I get my women at the waffle house."

Great theory.  This is what I think happened.  This is where Paulus made the decision not to help her.  He knows Joran is in deep sh!t and he won't help Natalee because she got the phone call off from his home.  They are all going down if they do.

GOODMORNING EVERYONE


Hi Tyler :D

Hi, everyone! I see that Klaas was finally able to break away. I had a great evening last night.

Good morning Tyler, San, & Justins!  Cant' wait to see the new statements this morning.

http://www.wafflehouse.com/

Good morning monkeys.

I really like SunFreaks's theory. It ties together a lot of the loose ends, IMO.

Any theory that has all 3 suspects present when she was seriously injured or killed is not realistic.  It's totally inconsistent with the timing of Deepaks' computer activity, the text mesages between Joran and Deepak, and the secretly recorded polis conversation, which prove beyond a reasonable doubt that least one memeber of the trio does not know what happened to her.

In addition to Natalee's initiating contact with Joran and flirting with him at the bar, after ignoring him at the casino, the comments by Deepak in his 5/31 statement, that she told Deepak to drive around, and called out some boy's name from the car, are support for my theory that she left with Joran in part based on some sort of typical teenage agenda: Trying to make another boy jealous, or impress her friends, or something like that.  It certainly looks as tho she wanted to be seen leaving with Joran.  

Of course I understand why her parents prefer to believe that she was drugged and that despite being drunk and naive, she would not have gotten in a car with strangers.  However in truth it does a disservice to the family, for those of us who are more emotionally removed and objective, to ignore the strong circumstantial evidence pointing away from that scenario, and towards an impulsive crime of opportunity, date rape gone wrong.   Even if Joran is guilty, which I have no doubt he is, getting locked into the idea that she was drugged, as part of planned abduction and rape by all three suspects, takes you down the wrong path when it comes to such things as determining the most likely crime scene and cause of death.  It has I think even prevented the family from most effectively countering the attacks on Natalee... I suspect that the reason her family has never mentioned the incident of Natalee objecting to the nudity in the DVD that Satish put on, even tho it shows how Joran has been intentionally omitting details that don't fit the nutty/slutty image of Natalee he has been trying to portray, is that it also doesn't fit the idea that Natalee was a helpless prisoner or that she thought she was in a cab.  And furthermore if she was drugged, that leaves open the theoretical possibility that she would have consented to sex with Joran alone.  I've seen many comments by people who believe that Joran is guilty or are on the fence, to the effect of  "maybe she did want Joran, but not 2K as well..."  OTOH, if the truth is that 2K were just the drivers who dropped Joran and Natalee off at the beach together,  and then Natalee died fighting against Joran alone (which is what I have concluded is the scenario most consistent with the evidence), that proves that Beth was basically right about who her daughter was, even with inhibitions lowered by intoxication, Natalee would not have consented to sex with a stranger.  So ironically the dogmatic belief on the part of most family supporters that this must have been a planned drugging/abduction/gang rape may actually be depriving Natalee of the moral credit she deserves.

Apparently in Aruba, investigators are not allowed to ask questions.

Shizaru

I believe there was and probably still is an island passtime of hooking up with young American tourists the night before they are to leave.  I think the locals know that most have one last celebration and that it is a good time to take advantage. I do not believe Natalee had her eyes on Joran to play any silly game.  Deepak says after asking him to dance, she joined a group of her friends.  I can envision Natalee asking everyone to come on and dance (to celebrate their last night). I don't think she set out for him or she would have been hanging on him at the casino. She was not playing some teenage girl game.  She was played .  Nothing this bad might have happened before...but the game was well established.  I am not sure if you are aware that you are coming across as implying that Natalee asked for trouble.  I don't believe this and I am somewhat offended that what happened is being related to a female character flaw or lack of character.  Trusting young (naive) women don't see danger in friendliness...there are dangerous and ugly people in all age groups.  Please don't imply Natalee had anything to do with what happened.  She never saw the plan or knew she was the game. JMO

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Snipped from Shiaru's post :
In addition to Natalee's initiating contact with Joran and flirting with him at the bar, after ignoring him at the casino, the comments by Deepak in his 5/31 statement, that she told Deepak to drive around, and called out some boy's name from the car, are support for my theory that she left with Joran in part based on some sort of typical teenage agenda: Trying to make another boy jealous, or impress her friends, or something like that. It certainly looks as tho she wanted to be seen leaving with Joran.
a.) Ignoring him at the casino... based on one still shot.. the others were playing cards.. she was not... Joran was more interested in the other girl.
b.) Wanted to be seen leaving with Joran ?  No one saw her " with " him.
It was all very casual. My thinking is that they went to C & C's looking for one or any of those girls. They knew it was their last night in Aruba, some of them had met Joran. He was a friendly face by the Sunday night. The object of this game Joran plays 20 x before is to get one right at closing time. Get her into the car ( parked in the back ). There are no witnesses as to who the " girl" left with, there had not been a whole lot of contact with Joran in C & C's. Therefore, if a girl was to complain to the police the next day, there would be very little to figure out who she left with. And no witnesses to help her out.
That is my opinion.

Kat

I'm with you.

Ok, here I go making mountains out of molehills and splitting hairs... In my last post..

It doesn't matter WHY she got into the car. She did, and hasn't been seen since.
OR who I agree or disagree with, it is just my opinion. I have no more to go on than anyone else.

Buckeye, yes, she was played. And then they continued on.. those boys played the police and the prosecutors and worst of all, the family.

Shizaru,

I know you believe in your theory and I think that's great because you have devoted a lot of time to it.  But I disagree with it.  I do feel that Natalee was drugged, kidnapped and gang raped by all three.  Joran was in a rush to get to CnC's that night and only a half hour before closing.  My question is why even bother to go.  Does Joran think he is that irresistible that he would score with Natalee in that time frame?  He went there with a plan (20 times before) and he followed through with it.  She could have voluntarily gotten in the car with them thinking she was getting into a cab and going back to her hotel.  Once they made that first wrong turn it becomes a kidnapping thus all the excuses he makes about her wanting to drive around and seeing the lighthouse.  Van der Straaten also knows it was a kidnapping and this is why he made the family take the signs down and say "Missing".  He is trying to eliminate those charges against Joran in case they either found Natalee or found out what happened to her.  In my eyes Natalee isn't deprived of anything because of what I believe in.  JMO.

Shizaru has spent more time than I have on these statements.
Heart and soul has been put into this by Shizaru. Probably like the rest of us, some sleep lost. Tears shed. Anger outbursts.
We are all really on the same path... to find Justice for Natalee.
I am going to make the effort ( again ) to not be critical.

Smish....bare bumski is missing ...

I was looking at Dave's book and on page 150, bottom, he talks about Paulus:
" a on-time-judge-in-training who flunked out and went back to Holland with his tail between his legs. As of right now, this man can no longer do anyone any favors, at least where the court system is concerned.  A person who sits on the bench has alot of power to wield. But now he has been dethroned. "
.
Well, I hope so. And I also hope that the Dutch Team has no friends or family on Aruba.

San, I agree with you and I think they do not want to be involved with "drugs" or "kidnapping" although they know that is what they did.  I do believe this was a PIMPS game, and I think Satish and Joran are more involved perhaps than Deepak, but he knows what happened, although he might not be aware of where her body was taken in the end.  She died because three lower-than-scum-sucking predators took her in a car where she met her demise.  It's just as simple as 1-2-3 + Paulus makes 4.

Exactly.

I put Google Earth on my computer the other day, and last night I was looking at Aruba. From the air, that whole place looks like a Gosh-forsaken heck hole.

Except for that one strip of hotels, it all looks like a vast wasteland. Could someone tell me again why the place is supposed to be an island paradise?

Because Aruba is saying it is :roll:

Well, we already know big people lie.  :lol:

Seriously, if you look at a green island like Bermuda, and then compare it to Aruba, the difference is very striking. Aruba looks like it got bombed and never recovered.

BT, I thought the same thing when I went there.  It was for sale cheap and those wanting to turn it into predator/smuggling island, named "it paradise," because it is a paradise for thugs.

I like your discription BT.

Gee I like this description also :lol:

That whole tourist beach area is man made.
There wasn't any industry on Aruba pre tourists... there was the oil refinery ... and aloe.
There isn't the lush foliage that you associate with tropical.
Hardly rains.

I certainly was not suggesting that Natalee was in any way to blame.  The reason it matters why she got in the car, whether she was willing or drugged, is that her condition and state of mind is relevant to what occured after that, where they took her and how she died.  I think that she got in the car willingly, because her judgement was seriously impaired by alcohol.  I don't think she knew what kind of effect a 151 shot would have on someone her size.  I think she knew she was getting into a private vehicle, not likely she'd mistake a car parked behind the building for a cab.  However I don't think she expected anything more when she got in the car, than a ride back to her hotel with maybe some making out on the way.  Maybe she thought Joran was cute and wanted a little romance on her last night on the island, maybe she was trying to make some MBer jealous, maybe it was both.  Either way I think she was a good girl who trusted the wrong person and paid for it with her life.  I don't think this was a planned crime tho.  If that is the case why were 2K Joran's third choice?  Are Andre and Florencia part of the rape gang too?  And why were 2K giving away that they weren't cab drivers by coming in and drinking with Joran?  Frankly this "20 times before quote" is being used dishonestly.  Joran was not saying they had committed rape 20 times before, just that they had picked up tourist girls 20 times before.  I think the plan that night was the same as the other 20 times,  find some drunk tourist girls, have Joran get them even drunker by buying them some 151 shots, then offer them a ride back to their hotel and see what happened.  Maybe I'm wrong but I think there is far too much uniformity of opinion on the pro-family boards that this was a premediated abduction by a well-organized pimp squad, the alternative that it was a crime of opportunity doesn't even get 5% as much attention.  Which is unfortunate because there is certainly plenty of circumstantial evidence pointing to the latter, and which sort of crime it was makes a difference as to which scenarios are more plausable when trying to determine what ultimately happened to her.

Karin Janssen herself was the one who brought premeditation into the picture.

Hey San - I like your sig line.  :lol:

I probably should know this, but who decided to make Aruba be a tourist mecca and when?

hi Monkeys... going to read back... brb

Hiya Monkeys

Sunfreak - I have decided that they ran over her... it makes, in my mind, the most sense for a lot of things.

Tyler, I promise I have never, ever seen one.... and Red and I drive all over the place.... LOL.  Kerry is just trying to "play" to the South...  :lol:

Hi Yapperz. Did you see I'm famous now? San is quoting me.  :P

BT, I saw that   :shock:

 




morning monkeys and Mrs Red  

Giario has put up the diario forum which has natalee holloway topics funny that it was started last yr yet no one knew of it till now   will past it below

 
 
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Angelalala



Joined: 23 Aug 2006
Posts: 12

 Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 1:13 pm    Post subject: NATALEE HOLLOWAY  
 
 
 
I give up. I didn't mean to incite so much hate. I'm sorry.

Last edited by Angelalala on Mon Sep 04, 2006 12:21 am; edited 1 time in total
 
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Guest






 Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 6:26 pm    Post subject: Natalee Ann Holloway  
 
 
 
I find it strange that this forum was "formed" in July 2005. 1 month after Natalee went "missing" and yet, no one has used this forum except for 1 or 2 people and this forum is from Aruba. Thank you Diario for furnishing this forum and making it available for everyone to use.

For the last 15 months it could have been utilized to help in finding the truth of what happened to Natalee. SOMEONE in Aruba knows what happened but for reasons beyond our knowledge or imagination, that person or people, have withheld this information. WHY? Doesn't the family of Natalee deserve to know what and where their daughter is? Doesn't the good people of Aruba deserve to know?

If it were your daughter, sister, mother or another family member or friend, wouldn't you want these answers? It is not humane for a person to not let Natalee's fate be known. If you know the answers, is this something that you want to live with the rest of your life?

It would be more honorable to reveal what you know to these parents than to keep this information to yourselves. Remember, there is reward money to the person that helps this family. It will be done confidentially. You don't have to give your name. You can work with someone as a mediator. It can be done in the strictest confidence.

Remove this burden from your life, if you do know what happened. Be a hero! Be a silent hero, if you must. Give yourself some peace of mind but please, just give this family of Natalee Ann Holloway some closure of where she is or what has happened.

This whole situation could have been avoided if the truth had been told in the beginning. Too many people have been hurt because of this. The good people of Aruba have been hurt also, not just Natalee and her family. Did we, the USA want this for them? No! Everything was fine between these 2 great countries before this. What happened? Who caused this? Not the USA, but the people or person who caused harm to Natalee. As a result, you will find bitterness between some people, which was not there before. Bitterness and hateful remarks are becoming more and more obvious in blogs on the internet and in our own neighborhoods and countries.

I am sad to say, that the relationship between these 2 countries will never be the same again until these questions are answered. Sure, Aruba will still have some visitors come from the USA but then again, there will not be as many. There is no official boycott of Aruba. Just individual ones, that some people in support of Natalee and her family have chosen to take, until Natalee is either found or some honest person comes forward and tells the truth of what really did happen.

This case of Natalee Holloway will not go away for some of us here in the USA. Never!! The good hard working, deserving citizens of Aruba, will be the ones to suffer for it. I am sad to say this. It isn't fair to Natalee's family or for these people in Aruba either. Life will not be the same as it was before Natalee went missing. One person CAN make the difference. Are YOU, reading this, that ONE person? Or with what you may know, can you live with the knowledge of what happened, the rest of your life? Are you willing to live with this cancer that will eat at your heart, the rest of your life?

I personally never had the privilege of meeting Natalee but it seems now, that I have known her all of her life. Her life, has now become a part of so many other people's lives. She will never be forgotten, nor will the quest to find her, by so many people end. This is one missing person case, that will never be forgotten.

The people who have stayed faithful in this quest with her family, will not let Natalee be forgotten. There are too many people behind them and we will always be searching for the answers in Aruba. That is where the answers lie. One small Island with so much to offer. One small Island and someone knows where and what those answers are. One small Island with a thorn in it's side, now.  

Are YOU that someone that has the answers?? Do the right thing...

Sincerely, Jamie
Alabama, USA
 
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Jamie



Joined: 23 Aug 2006
Posts: 13
Location: USA
 Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 6:33 pm    Post subject: Natalee Ann Holloway  
 
 
 
The above message was posted by myself, Jamie. It was not meant to have "guest" applied, as to confuse anyone. I take sole responsibility for it's contents.

Jamie
_________________
findnatalee@juno.com INFORMATION OR KNOW WHERE NATALEE IS
$1,000,000 FOR INFORMATION LEADING TO HER SAFE RETURN
$250,000 FOR INFORMATION THAT ULTIMATELY HELPS SOLVE THIS MISSING PERSON CASE.

http://www.allpointsbulletin.org/Natalee_Holloway.html
 
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kescah
Guest





 Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 7:40 pm    Post subject: This Forum  
 
 
 
How nice to find this forum here. We want to have a voice in Aruba to speak and hear more about the Natalee Holloway case and anything connected to it. Thank you, Diario, for this opportunity.

Please keep us informed. Most of us do not read Papamiento or Dutch, so we miss a lot of what is said.

Again, thanks.
 
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flash



Joined: 23 Aug 2006
Posts: 1

 Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 10:57 pm    Post subject:    
 
 
 
Very nice to see Jossy has a forum to go with his paper. Seems like he is the only one out there that actually cares what is happening. I say horray for Diario, and keep the information coming. Would love to hear some kind of news soon, it has been very quiet.  
 
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Stefani
Guest





 Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 12:07 am    Post subject: Go Jossy Go  
 
 
 
The truth lies in Aruba. We can only hope that Jossy and the Dario can help bring the truth forward for the family. Jossy's dedication to Natalee's story is encouraging and appreciated. Keep digging.  
 
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Jamie



Joined: 23 Aug 2006
Posts: 13
Location: USA
 Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 1:33 am    Post subject:    
 
 
 
I wanted to thank all of you for finding your way and coming here today. I found this forum by chance today and have tried to spread the word of it's existence. This forum had been started last July 2005 but no one had used it. Hopefully someone may offer some help in finding the truth about Natalee.

Lets please don't make this a bashing forum against anyone. This is NOT my blog or forum and I am not an administrator. Diario provided it and I only helped it come alive. Let's see where it goes from here.

Jamie
_________________
findnatalee@juno.com INFORMATION OR KNOW WHERE NATALEE IS
$1,000,000 FOR INFORMATION LEADING TO HER SAFE RETURN
$250,000 FOR INFORMATION THAT ULTIMATELY HELPS SOLVE THIS MISSING PERSON CASE.

http://www.allpointsbulletin.org/Natalee_Holloway.html

Last edited by Jamie on Thu Aug 31, 2006 2:47 am; edited 1 time in total
 
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ICDucks



Joined: 24 Aug 2006
Posts: 1

 Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 1:38 pm    Post subject:    
 
 
 
Thanks to Jossy for providing this forum.

To the people of Aruba:
It is evident that your island is suffering because of this case. In my heart I feel bad for the working people of your island who have family to support. Please help bring this case to a conclusion. Natalee's family deserves to have truthful answers and we want to see justice in this case.
I urge you to post any information concerning the Holloway case. People talk, you may have heard something over the past year that may seem like nothing, or gossip, but you never know what little bit of truth might be included. If you know or have heard anything that may be important, please post. Thank you.
 
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SunBear
Guest





 Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 4:07 pm    Post subject: Holloway  
 
 
 
I do hope that Jossy and the honest people of Aruba will find their way through the maze of lies so the family of Natalee Holloway will know the truth and justice will be served. Thank you Jossy, for this forum (and thanks to the friend who pointed me here), and may God bless you and yours.
 
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Aristotle
Guest





 Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 4:59 pm    Post subject: Tips and Info needed  
 
 
 
For anyone with information who does not know, the reward money $$$$$ is still available. $250,000.00 US for information leading to Natalee's whereabouts, and $1,000,000.00 US for her safe return. If you have information and would like to confidentially provide it to the family, please let me know and I can put you in contact. Thanks in advance.
 
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LindaK
Guest





 Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 6:46 pm    Post subject:    
 
 
 
We will ALL remain voices for Natalee. We will ALL search until Justice is served.

Please, it only takes ONE TRUTH. Natalee's family deserves that TRUTH, they deserve to know what happened.
 
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Mr. Justice
Guest





 Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 9:10 pm    Post subject:    
 
 
 
Support Natalee, her family and justice!

http://www.petitiononline.com/justnat/petition.html
 
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Jamie



Joined: 23 Aug 2006
Posts: 13
Location: USA
 Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 12:13 am    Post subject:    
 
 
 
I am posting a special and separate e-mail address here, for anyone who has any information as to where Natalee is, or what may have happened to her. This is a secure, private home e-mail address of mine, that I have set up today and will not be used for my personal use except to correspond with you, if you have any information. Your identity WILL remain confidential. I am assuring you of this. Any information concerning the disappearance of Natalee Ann Holloway that you have to offer, WILL also be kept in the strictest confidence. I am not in the law enforcement or of any other government official status. I am a mother, sister, grandmother, just an average person, like so many others around this world, that this young lady's disappearance has effected so deeply. It has touched our hearts, souls and lives since the day she went missing. Those of us that care so much for Natalee and her entire family will never give up the Hope For Natalee.

Someone in Aruba OR the USA knows exactly what happened to this beautiful young lady. It could very well be that YOU are scared and at this point, don't know WHO to trust with what you may know. I understand this. I am offering to be a mediator between YOU and the PROPER authority. Please, rest assure that your information and identity WILL be protected. The only thing that will change is that YOU will have cleared your conscience and Natalee's family will have the answers they need. This family has gone through enough, for too long and we only want them to finally have peace. I pray that Natalee is still alive and that maybe someone is holding her against her will, and that whoever has her, will let her go home. But, if this is not true, then they especially need closure. This is breaking their hearts, of not knowing what has happened to their daughter. I don't know how they get through each day. I have never lost a child but to lose one and then not even know where she is, has to be the worst thing in your life to endure. I can not even imagine what all they are going through and I can't even pretend to know. I don't know how the people or persons responsible for Natalee's disappearance can even live with their self each day, knowing what they have done to this child.

The e-mail address that I have given is only for information that someone may have. It is NOT being seen or used by anyone other than myself. This is a direct link between YOU and myself ONLY. I am very sincere and honest! I want YOU to know that YOU will NEVER be identified to the public at anytime and no one will ever know that YOU had the courage to provide the information and answers that Natalee's dear family so desperately needs. The only connection between myself and Natalee is that we both live in the state of Alabama and I have a child her same age. And the fact that I care so deeply for this family and for them to know what happened to their daughter. Like so many others, there is not a day that goes by that I don't think of Natalee.

To anyone who may try to play games with me, at this e-mail address and send me things out of hate or spite, be aware now that your return address will be blocked. I will NOT tolerate your selfish and cruel behavior that I have seen or heard about from some of the blogs and forums out there. This is a real person's life we are talking about. Please have the human decency and give Natalee's family this respect. You would not want someone to do that to you, if your child was missing. Please really think about that.

Please come forward...Let's end this now. It has gone on for too long and so many innocent people are being hurt. It will not stop until YOU do what you know is RIGHT, in your heart. It is speaking to you now. The search for Natalee will continue until she is either found OR until those responsible have been found and the truth is known. The person and the name, Natalee Ann Holloway will forever be associated with ALL involved in her disappearance IF the truth is never told. She may not ever be found but we will never let her be forgotten.

I, and many others are pleading with YOU to find it in your heart to come forward now.

Sincerely,
Jamie

findnatalee@juno.com
_________________
findnatalee@juno.com INFORMATION OR KNOW WHERE NATALEE IS
$1,000,000 FOR INFORMATION LEADING TO HER SAFE RETURN
$250,000 FOR INFORMATION THAT ULTIMATELY HELPS SOLVE THIS MISSING PERSON CASE.

http://www.allpointsbulletin.org/Natalee_Holloway.html
 
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Boots



Joined: 23 Aug 2006
Posts: 1

 Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 8:08 am    Post subject:    
 
 
 
Thank you Jossy! Your hard work is appreciated. We will find Natalee and bring her home. Thank's for all that you do.

Boots
 
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Jamie



Joined: 23 Aug 2006
Posts: 13
Location: USA
 Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 3:06 pm    Post subject: One child DOES make a difference  
 
 
 
 




By Elisa Waldron
Aug 24 2006 05:06PM

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/53120/the_worth_of_a_child_missing_children.html


Below are only parts of a story that Elisa Waldron wrote. Please take the time to read the entire letter at the link above. This letter has come straight from this ladies heart. Not only does it tell of Natalee Holloway but of others that have been murdered or missing. Please read the story below and ask yourself. Can just ONE child make the difference? What if it was YOUR child?


Natalee Holloway was an 18 year old honor student with a scholarship to the University of Alabama waiting for her when she disappeared on May 30, 2005. She was enjoying the paradise that is Aruba with her senior class when she walked out of a bar one night and into international headlines.
I have been watching this mystery through the eyes of a parent; I have two teenagers. I am easily able to feel a sense of horror, loss, fear and disbelief at that thought of a missing child. We like to believe that we can protect our children from harm. We have to believe that once our children leave our care the teachers, the other parents, the bus drivers, the religious leaders, the law enforcement officials…EVERYBODY is looking out for them. To be able to let our children grow up, to be able to confidently wave goodbye and maybe even tell our children “it will be okay”, we have to let go of our own fears and trust in God and all the other people on the planet.

The sad truth is that all the other people on the planet are not trustworthy. They do not all have the same goals or the same ideas of honesty and they certainly do not all love our children the way we do. I admire Beth Twitty so much. I really do. As Natalee’s mother it was she who kept her face and Natalee’s name in the news, in the headlines, at the water cooler. It was she who kept pressing the Aruba officials to, for God’s sake, do something. She was forced to trust what was being done, that it was being done correctly and that because a judge was involved that it wasn’t “Oh, it’s you, Judge…so sorry to have bothered you. Please, have a donut. You can go.”

Not only did she rush to the site of her daughter’s disappearance thousands of miles away, she remained firm and steadfast and able to lead the crusade into the details, the reconstruction of that night. She has said she is aware of sexual abuse against her daughter on that night. I am not sure how well I would handle hearing my baby was raped before she disappeared and where I would find the composure to keep standing in front of the cameras to do interviews and to keep telling the world my daughter is a person, please don’t forget her, please don’t let the bad people in the world know that one child will not matter.

I saw her on television explaining that young girls go missing on Aruba and are sold as sex slaves. I was wondering where she got her composure and understanding her hope that Natalee was still alive somewhere – anywhere—and hoping she would just be found and could go home again.

What I find interesting is that, in fact, one child does indeed matter.

What I would like to see are more people giving more time and effort into doing what they can to help others like themselves. Others who also work to provide for their family’s needs and who are faltering in the worst moment of their lives. The moment they realize their child is missing…the moment policemen knock on their doors to tell them their child is dead. What I would like us all to remember is that it could be us. It could be me tomorrow. It could be you. In your worst moment, wouldn’t you like to be able to look around and realize one child makes a difference? My child matters.


 


YES, one child does matter!!

Give Beth Holloway Twitty back her child, please!
_________________
findnatalee@juno.com INFORMATION OR KNOW WHERE NATALEE IS
$1,000,000 FOR INFORMATION LEADING TO HER SAFE RETURN
$250,000 FOR INFORMATION THAT ULTIMATELY HELPS SOLVE THIS MISSING PERSON CASE.

http://www.allpointsbulletin.org/Natalee_Holloway.html

Last edited by Jamie on Wed Aug 30, 2006 1:24 am; edited 1 time in total
 
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Who knew?  :wink:

Other than Joran and Deepak's statements - where have we ever heard that Natalee flirted with Joran?  I have seen pictures posted that show she was already dancing with another boy...Joran is NOT a delicious anything... so why would she even acknowledge him at CnC's if she hadn't at the casino? Also, by Joran's own admission he was after another MB girl.... I think they drugged Natalee because she was there at the moment of opportunity....

As for the disagreement regarding Natalee being drugged, even Jossy says quite plainly for $20 the bartenders will drug the drinks. Joran said that he paid $20 for the drinks, that could just be semantics.... I paid $20 for the drinks could also mean  - I paid $20 for each drink....

Waffle House - you can pick your state and it will tell you how many stores.

http://www.wafflehouse.com/default.asp

Hi All!

Thank you, Sandy Leiva

She is legally correct, if you arrive at a bar thirty minutes before closing, buy a girl the equivalent of six drinks in thirty minutes, offer to drive her back to the hotel, she never gets there, and is never seen again, the subsequent crime is never considered accidental, it is legally a premeditated action. The crime is no longer a crime of opportunity, it is considered premeditated. Thus the suspicion of premeditated murder. The purpose of the liquor was the same as a narcotic: remove the girls ability to consent.

Mrs Red.. I agree. Natalee showed no interest (to our knowledge) in JVDS. IMO he went to CnC's with an agenda. He knew exactly what to do, when to do it & how to do it.

Exactly.

The premeditation charge was against Paulus.

I saw that... ME, CT, MA, RI, NH, NJ and NY are not even listed.... those are all my driving distance places.... and Red hates Waffle House... :shock:  he is all about Cracker Barrell... :lol:

Wolf Hunting Tactics

Wolves are primarily nocturnal animals that avoid the heat of day. They generally commence hunting at dusk.

Wolves detect prey by three primary means, sent (most common), tracking, and chance encounters.

After prey is detected, wolves may split up to search through brush, travel on ridge tops searching for the prey below, or test herds looking for signs of weakness.

It has long been recognized that wolves often take advantage of weak members of the herd. In 1804, Captain Clark of the famed Lewis and Clark expedition wrote that prairie wolves followed buffalo and fed "on those that are killed by accident or those that are too pore or fat to keep up with the ganges."

Just thought this was an interresting comparison  :wink:

and again I respectfully disagree with Shiz's assessement of the statement  about the 20 x before....

No wafflehouse around here :lol:

your very welcome monkey friends

I can't wait to see Joran's 5/31 witness statement. I have a feeling he mentioned a walk on the beach by the fisherman's huts.

SunFreak - In your post on this thread, page 1, you say:



For the Murder & Crime thread - Is this the Tracy Allen incident? Because we have that one at Fisherman's Huts, and my assumption is the "Marriott" huts (because she had a time share at Marriott).

So is this a separate incident - at Hadacurari Beach? (Which I'm afraid is a whole new place name for me.)

Thank you. If it's a separate incident, maybe you could pop on over to the Murder & Crime thread and add it. (See my sig line.)

Monkeys - Please read the Murder & Crime thread and add any other incidents, or details to the ones we have.

ALSO - Anna and I are wondering if the newspapers on Aruba might be stifling these kinds of stories (online versions, at least) as a result of this thread. Wonder if anyone could pursue that?

That thread is a very powerful collection of information. Thanks to every monkey who has contributed!

After reading The two Kalpoes "witness" statements, I can say they must have rehersed that security guard alibi story many times. Almost infinite details about the attire and description of the guard. Most people believe the "dry run" was made Monday evening when the suspects met poolside with Paulus to prepare the story. This is also the time Paulus is believed to have said "no corpse- no crime".

Remember Joran said ( for some reason this stuck out to me like a sore thumb because it had a rare ring of truth ) : "I do what my family TELLS me to do"...( in other words, my dad can get me out of any legal problem and my mom directs the PR followup ). I still have questions regarding exactly when Paulus became involved in that evening's plans for Natalee...?? Targeting her was so pre-meditated, in my opinion...more than several hours.

Yes Thank You So Much Sandy...

Deepak stated:

I can tell you the following:
- he is approximately 1.85 meters tall;
- he has a heavy set body;
- he has close-cropped hair;
- he wore a black t-shirt;
- he wore a black cotton long trousers which most of the keepers use and
- he kept walkie talkie in its hands and according to me he spoke by means of the walkie talkie.

Satish stated:

I will answer you the following:

- he is approximately 1.70 meters tall;
- he has a strong build;
- he has close-cropped black hair;
- he wore a black t-shirt;
- he wore black cotton long trousers which most of the guards wear and
- he held a walkie talkie in his hands

 :lol:

Jacquie:  If you ever prepare grits for yourself, remember to treat them as you would mashed potatoes...must always add salt & pepper, and butter...and make certain they are NOT runny but of the same consistency of mashed potatoes!  (Once, in Dallas of all places,  I was served runny grits and liked-ta-died!  :lol: )

From Satish statement:

Joran started to dance hereafter with white girl with blonde hair. I only walked around then.  According to me my brother with Joran lagged behind. I walked around in the bldg. of Carlos & Charlies but I did not run to (?). After I had walked around, I met Deepak and Joran at the dancing floor/stage. Then the three of us agreed that it was too boring at Carlos & Charlies and that we would go to the house (home?). I saw that Joran was talking with the white girl. On Monday, May 30, 2005, around 01:15, we walked with our guest to Deepak’s car.

Did Joran ever say he danced with Natalee?  And here Satish has Deepak remaining inside the bar the whole time with them?

In my opinion, you perhaps may be placing too much confidence in the authenticity/legitimacy of Deepak's computer, etc. activity...I am sceptical of the accuracy thereof. Some of this could easily be well-placed/timed red herring swimming after the fact.

Pages 2 and 3 of Satish's Witness statement do not enlarge when clicked.

Not that I am aware of...In fact, what I recall is Joran emphatically states he did NOT dance with her.....

 which is why I said what I did earlier to you...  we never hear from anyone other than Joran and Deepak that Natalee was calling them over to her to go dance...  did we?

Oops...meant "skeptical"..sorry.

Try now, I think Red fixed it.  Also it is posted in the Important Case Documents thread.

And amazingly where is the part of the story as per Joran's interview with Greta, that he resisted Natalee's advances asking him to dance????

Wasn't it Dompig who broadcast to the world that they had new information late last summer that Natalee may have been using drugs too????

What will it take for some to see that this sham of an investigation has been nothing but lies, lies, and more lies.

Natalee Ann Holloway was not an honor student on a girl gone wild trip, she didn't ask for this to happen to her, and I hope some can get the Renfro/Dompig/SCohen/CCroes/RU smear campaign out of their head now.

The time of the statement is missing from the English version.  It is 7:20 PM according to the original.

All three of us walked to the bar and my brother Deepak bought a whisky coke for me and also a drink for himself. Joran also bought an alcoholic drink for himself.

the above quoted from Satish's statement...


 This is what I meant by Joran's semantics in my assessment based on what Jossy said about drinks costing $20 if they were drugged... Joran in an interview said the drinks cost $20... and here we have k2 buying their own drinks....

Sorry, Shiz... I don't mean to seem like I am hammering your thoughts, just my opinion is the polar opposite and everything that you say seems like it is totally opposite of what I think....

Frankly you theory is wrong. Buying the girl the equivalent of five drinks in thirty minutes at closing time is premeditation. Also, the Kalpoes are far more than "just drivers". The Kalpoes agreed to the security guard alibi to protect themselves, not just Joran.  Paulus would not have found the need to hire each Kalpoe boy two attornies each if they were simply drivers. I also find it revealing that Deepak sent an email stating "the girl had put her hands down his pants and grasped his penis"

First reference i have seen that has Joran dancing.

Also has the 4 of them walking together to the car. Deepak does not.

Thanks Leslie - have no idea how I missed that.  I've added it to the English version in the forum.  Not sure if it really makes enough difference to correct the front page one.

Deepak's 5/31/05 Statement:

All three of us walked to the bar and Joran bought three glasses of "whisky coke".  After Joran paid for this we walked around.

They can remember every little detail but can't remember who paid for what drink.

I am going to have to read and compare all three of there statements together beofre I can make a judgement of any sort. As far as times and other things we all see things a little differently meaning it is a proven fact that you can have a dozen folks in a room and what they see will all be different.

Off topic, I had an email from Darleen of Alabama today. I did not notice when it was sent but go the feeling she was home again. Has she been in yet?

Good question...for one thing, it was constantly being 'sold' as the safest place in the Caribbean.  Also, I think the thrill of "flying off to an island" is appealing? Little did anyone dream of just how many pirates still roam the landscape there and just how dangerous Aruba really is.

I was copied on a mass email that she replied to... I think she might be home... I haven't seen her in the cage though...

We are talking about 3 guys here, who were not drunk, being asked to recall a 20/25 min period at C&Cs on a boring, otherwise uneventful Sunday night. Should not be hard.

I need to run out for a while... but o/t .. if any one who is interested in the Black Dahalia case hasn't seen it... the thread in the Unsolved Crimes has some cool pictures that LV took of one of the places that is thought to be involved in the murder... be sure and check that out!!

Keep the faith monkeys.... I do think Justice will prevail!!

San,

I think you may need a bigger gun now  :lol:

yes and even with tutoring from Paulus, they could not keep it straight or maybe we can call some of this freudian slips?

Random thoughts:
The Kalpoe's buy their own booze according to this statement.  
Satish was wearing a blue cap?
Why does the 15 minutes spent at Joran's apt. (printing out homework) between the Kalpoe's arrival and the departure for C&C's always get mentioned? I wonder if the trip into the room in the main house, where the family computer is, was also a visit to the VDS's well stocked bar.
Why do they never get asked what was discussed in the car on the way to C&C's?  None of them have ever said what the topic of conversation was and it is important.

I need to get some "real" work done now, will be lurking and not posting for a while. :wink:

The description of the black security guard seems to be missing an important detail - his approximate age. That might narrow the field a little.  I guess Paul forgot to cover every detail in this piece of fiction.

Their answer will be we were watching a movie.

Satish was sitting in the front, passenger seat yet he noticed that Joran was "fingering" Natalee.  I can imagine the Deepak, the driver watching the backseat activities in his rearview mirror but Satish would have had to turn around to see that.  I doubt if Natalee would allow that.

Minor discrepancies like who paid for drinks aren't important, but so far we've seen two fairly large discrepancies in the accounts of events at CnCs.  In Deepak's 6/14 statement he has Satish temporarily leaving the bar to bring him the keys after recieving his missed call, while Satish appears to agree with Joran that he was with Joran the entire time.  And now we have Satish saying in his 5/31 statement that Deepak and Joran remained together  inside CnCs while he walked around inside, vs.  Deepak and Joran consistently saying that Satish and Joran remained together inside CnCs while Deepak went out to the car.  And while it isn't explicitly stated, Satish's 5/31 statement also implies that the 4 walked out together, vs. Deepak and Joran consistently saying that Deepak waited for them in the car.

I didn't take your original post to mean you thought Natalee was in any way responsible for her own demise.  I do think this was planned in that some of the island boys have a routine that gets them the tourist girls.  Joran getting to C&C's so late and lying about the fact that he planned to go there long before he played blackjack with Natalee's friends, the kalpoes going along with the late arrival and driving just for one drink, tells me this was a routine scenario where they expected more than a drink.  20 times before: show up late looking for some girls you've seen around, met, get them to come with you.   I think Natalee may have gone with Joran willingly as he was known to the MB kids casually.  I think she may have wanted to see the lighthouse and sharks and she got separated from her friends before she could tell them she was going with Joran and they couldn't talk her out of it.  Getting separated from her friends after drinking a shot of 151 and it was "so simple that night":  she was trusting and naive, so giving her a ride, getting her in the car, was easy.  I think she expected to see the lighthouse and sharks and go back to her hotel.  The falling asleep and waking up makes me think she was drugged.  But if she was, I doubt there was a 3 am phone call from her.  Also, Joran at first said she was drinking and maybe doing drugs:  he was covering for putting something in her drink perhaps.  I think at some point she did tell Joran to "just put me down".  But it wasn't because she didn't want to go to her hotel.  She was conscious and didn't want to go where he was taking her.  This is also where she hit her head, scraped her knee or whatever that Joran's initial story tried to cover.

:oops:

It was meant to be a joke.  Remember Bush saying Kerry waffled all the time?  Well, he did have several mistresses and they put together a webite called "Hedgefund mistresses" and the used that song from FloraBama "I get my women at the waffle house" as a play on words. :oops:

Do you not think those statements were all 'prefab' statements meant to "stick to the same story" as coached by Paulus VanderSlaughter.

I've wondered the same thing regarding the time spent inside Joran's apartment...I think there's a reason why they have to pretend that whatever it was that they were doing there, it was as innocent as schoolwork.  I don't believe it.

DEEPAK'S 5/31/05 STATEMENT:

On Monday, May 30, 2005, around 00.00, I went to pick up Joran at this house.  I went together with mt brother named Satish Sharma KALPIE to pick up Joran at his house.  Satish and I remained approximately 15 minutes at Joran's house.  I must note that Joran lives in an apartment beside the dwelling that his parents live.  Around 00.25, Satish, Joran and I left for "Carlos & Charlies".  I must note that we arrived at Carlos & Charlies at around 00.40.

SATISH'S 5/31/05 STATEMENT:

After Joran was ready, all three of us left for Carlos& Charlies.  Around 11:45 we stepped into the bldg.

Well, it never happened. Deepak phoned Satish and told him what to say. Then, when he saw Satish, he went over it with him. That is likely why Satish said that he wasn't going to say any more.
With the difference in these details, why did they arrest the guards ?

Tyler, I am such a dork.... NOW, I get it!!! :oops:

.
Good Afternoon, Monkeys,

I read Satish's statement that Joran printed the homework in his apartment.  This would indicate the presence of yet another computer than the one in the main house we have been led to believe was the only one for the entire family.  Satish does not say he and Deepak waited alone in the apartment while Joran went to the main house to print the alleged homework.  I do believe we are missing one entire computer by the time ALE moseys over ten days later.

Not that it would matter.  The computer analysis is the sorriest piece of work I have ever seen by alleged professionals with its disclaimer that they could not read anything that had been deleted and is a joke anyway.  It certainly does not take an expert to read what is left on a hard drive which is all that report even claims to do.

But is there statement to the fact that Joran left the two Kelpoes alone in his apartment and went to the Big House for printing of the homework anywhere?  I mean early in the reports and not after they did away with Joran's computer from his apartment.  Allegedly.

I do not believe a reasonable answer to this question exists.

The "beautiful beaches" are for the most part manmade and developed primarily by the resorts which are mostly American franchises.  They are NOT naturally occurring beaches at all.  I wonder if they have to be maintained or if they would revert to the way the rest of the island is if not maintained by off-shore dredging, etc. should the big hotels cut back or even decide to leave because of lack of business.  

That is why the rest of the island looks as it does, that is how it was before "development" created the resort area.  More of the desert isle than any tropical paradise for sure.  Even the vegetation is stunted, warped by the wind and of the semi-arid variety.  I have been told that the soil is even very poor in many areas with high salt content.  Basically a big block of salt onto which some soil has accumulated over time.  Aruba owes a lot to tourism, that's for sure.   :roll:

We don't have Waffle Houses here in the North. It is cold here today. Winter on its way.
So, my SIL house's is the Waffle House. Big Round Belgian
Homemade waffles, fruit. warmed REAL MAPLE SYRUP from Quebec trees. Sometimes, ice cream on top.
Or Hot Maple Syrup poured on hard packed snow, then use a stick to wrap it up. Straight sugar...

Just read Satish's 5-31 statement.  Interesting that he says Joran danced with Natalee, says they went to the lighthouse; both of which Joran denies.   Satish does not mention Deepak going out to the car first, as Deepak has told us, does not mention Deepak being separated from him and Joran.  He also says they left C&C at 1:15, went to the lighthouse, and drove back to the Holiday Inn by 1:45 a.m.   They drove Joran home and were at home by 2:45.  Doesn't add up.

SO When Does Satish Arrive at C&C's?

San writes: "...SATISH'S 5/31/05 STATEMENT: After Joran was ready, all three of us left for Carlos& Charlies. Around 11:45 we stepped into the bldg..."

YES!

I have also noted same from Satish's later statement.  This is the SECOND time he provides arrival timing at C&C that is nearly an hour earlier than what both deepak and jvds give...

Do we believe that Satish, therefore, makes the same error in his story TWICE -- during two separate polis interrogations?

This first time I read Satish's later statement, I posted question re: their arrivals.  Note too that deepak puts Satish as the driver to sloot house to pick up jvds, and then to C&C's.  Why?  Joran clearly states that deepak was the driver to C&C's...

It looks to me that deepak and jvds may also be covering for Satish --

-- it is not clear that all 3 arrived together and at the same time: Satish may have been at C&C's earlier.

Good afternoon Monkeys! I just finished reading Satish's statement. Thank-you for posting it and all the others. Does anyone here think that
INTERPOL is going to be going to Aruba to arrest whomever it was that the 3 amigoes handed Natalee over to after they finished driving her around in the car? Maybe then whenl she was unconscious due to the drugs they gave her, they handed her over to MP?

It could also be that Satish picked up Deepak from work, they picked up Joran from the casino and did ????? until about 12:30.  No homework, no dinner at the Kalpoes, no Paulus pickup from McDonalds AND at least one of the MB guys says they saw Joran in the Kalpoe's car that evening, before C&C.  Melody's posts from last summer say she saw Joran before 12:00 a.m., but she didn't say if it was or wasn't near McDonalds.

here's a scenario that follows the same general outine of what I believe ocurred but has greater involvement by 2K:

They head for lighthouse but never get there (explaining why guard didn't see them) because Natalee passes out in the car first.  They stop at deserted spot on Arashi where Deepak says he took a leak, there Natalee gets molested by all 3.  They then head back to her hotel and Joran tells 2K to stop north of Marriott so he can have sex with Natalee on the beach there, he carries her from car to beach and 2K drive off.  One thing I do find suspicious about the trio's statements regarding the beach dropoff, is that none of the three mention Natalee saying a word at that point, no "Why are we stopping here", "Woohoo, the beach!", nothing.  Nor do they mention Joran giving her any reason why they are stopping there, they just describe her getting out of the car and walking off with him.  I think at a minimum 2K are probably lying about her condition when they reached the beach, and if she was conscious she was extremely intoxicated, disoriented and unable to walk without support.

Was Satish the one scoping out CnC's to see who would be the best target.  When Joran and Deepak arrive he tells them who would be the best target.  Was Satish really at CnC's with Koen first.

Shizaru your post fits with my recent thoughts......the reason nothing is mentioned is because she was unconscious by this time.

It is unbelievable to think that none of the three TALKED while jailed and interrogated. I believe, if not in the first couple of months, then at some point since....one of the three have spilled the can of worms. hence the comments about carrying guns, and the completion of the case in a few weeks . The Netherlands knows they are going in after the big boys. Oraganized crime/cartel boys.......

Proof Kalpoes did not pick JVDS up at his home?

1. Saturday 5-28-05: Melody went to a party. (Made notation on her calendar)
2. Sunday 5-29-05: Melody went to the movies with her new BF. (noted on calendar because it was when she & new BF shared their 1st kiss)
3. Says she saw JVDS leaning against a pillar very near Seaport Casino (turn corner & cross the road from theater?)
4. JVDS saw her with new BF & his face turned into a "hurt" face.
5. Says she knows the time was b4 12am (midnight)
6. Checked the current schedule for Seaport Cinema: Wednesday thru Tuesday earliest show is at 4:10pm, late shows are 10:10pm & 10:20pm
7. Deepak works @ Cyberzone Internet Cafe, Seaport Mall. (Sunday hours: 2pm - 10pm)
8. **On 8-3 BETH stated to "CNN” that while she was in Alabama BETH learned from a “Mountain Brook High School” male 2005 graduate that on 5-29 at 11:00 PM Prime Suspect J. SLOOT was already with Current Suspect D. KALPOE (he was not leaving the “Holiday Inn,” he was not walking towards or at the “McDonald’s” as he claimed, and he was not with Current Suspect P. SLOOT) and Prime Suspect J. SLOOT offered another “Mountain Brook High School” male a ride back to the “Holiday Inn.”
(from World Journier timeline)
 
So, if JVDS was already with Kalpoe by 11pm, where did they go b4 Carlos n Charlies? Sounds like PVDS changed the time he picked JVDS up @ McDonald's to again cover for the lying sporter

 :shock:  :shock:  :shock:
yes....and i hear it is getting worse....desperate really....
i will never go back

Friend of Monkeys:  How tall are Mickey John and Abraham Jones?

Good day you all.
 :)

The 3 boys describe the (one)security guard in their statements.  Yet 2 security guards are arrested. I would think the 3 boys would have to identify the security guard after he was arrested. Surely that is grounds for filing some major charges against the boys. That alone could have had grave consequenses for those 2 guards. False information by the 3, fingering 2 innocent men.

Shizaru,

I agree with you that the case is simplier than many are amking it out to be.  The cover-up of the case though reaches farther implications and involves many more.  The cover-up deals with a corrupt island that covers up more than the NH case and is controled by a minority of those who see themselves as the elite if the island.

-Joran is an out of control teen who is promiscious, gambles, drin ks heavily,and possibly does drugs.  He has his mother and father wrapped around his finger and has for many years.  EWither that or they are afraid of him.

-Joran uses people whether they be for rides a convenient friendship, or women for the use of partying and sex.

-Joran has picked up tourist women at least 20 times for his own pleasure and/or possibly his close circle of friends.  he takes advantage or a drunk tourist or possibly helps this along with the use of more drugs/alcohol.  If he can get "lucky" and get the girl without alcohol, so be it.  His activities may range from heavy petting, intercourse, date rape, and possibly videotaping/photographing.  He truthfully thinks nothing of this because in his eyes he sees himself irresistable and never sees the women again so doesn't have to face the reality of what he did.  I imagine he treats gfs much the same way.  He is manipulative and comes off as charming when all women ( tourist and island girls) first meet him.  The tourist girls go home he goes for the next conquest.

-The boys pick up Natalee with no other plan than the above.  She is a nice girl who unfortunately uses poor judgement under the influence of drugs(GHB)/alcohol and at the time thinks she will shortly be returning to her hotel or being intoxicated is thinking of nothing but the moment.

-I doubt Nat welcomed the contact the boys describe in the car.  I do not see Natalee ( from what we know of her) b3ehaving that way with two other males in the car.  Maybe some kissing, but that is about it.  She was either unaware of her surrounding, semi-unconscious, or resisting.

-Somewhere along the line Natalee either had a bad reaction from the drugs/alcohol, or she tried to get away and was injured.  Those with her at the time did not see medical attention for her she died quickly.  I assume there was more unwanted sexual contact with Joran and possibly the Deepak/Satish.

-At sometime I feel Nat was at the sloots.  She may have already been dead or in a bad physical condition ( very intoxicated/injured.)

-Paulus was called in to assist Joran and or the boys and the disposal and cover-up begins.  In order to protect Joran, Paulus threatens the Kalpoes because they were either directly involved or by association.  He tells them he will assist them with an alibi and lawyer fees.  They get in over their head.  They see Joran getting off, so they have no reason to come forward with the truth.

-The island polis department and politicains are corrupt. Many favors are paid, many threaten to uncover past deeds and favors.  Lower level politicains and poils want to keep their jobs, all keep quiet.  A few know exactly what happened, many probably have a pretty accurate idea of what happened, but again. to keep the island happy, one must stay quiet.

I, Dennis Dominico JACOBS, head agent at the Korps Police force Aruba and at the Atraco team classified, explain the following.

On Tuesday, May 31, 2005, at 19:20, I interrogated and took a witness statement from the man named:

Satish Sharma KALPOE

born in Surinam on July 30 1986, without profession student at (H4I Colegio Arubano) and residing in Hooiberg number 91-B on Aruba.

Are in Dutch taken off declaration by me, JACOBS, in Dutch it was translated, were put on record and sound as follows:

This doesn't sound like Dennis Jacobs interrogated Satish to me.Does anyone know what the bolded part above means?

I don't blame you at all FOM...it's also just a little too close to the communist Chavez and he's got his eye on Aruba..

Hey FOM... can you check your email?

mickey is like 6'...i never met the other guard

Amazing details from 2 "people" (possible all 3) of such a minor detail while you are pulling away!

Hi Spock and all Monkeys!

Excellent tidbit, San!
I've never heard or thought of that.

Thanks.  We see Deepak saying the phantom security guard was 6 ft tall and Satish saying 5 ft 5 inches.

not that I am as far North, but it is cold... BRRRRRRRRR

not in aruba...not if your daddy is paulus and he already got a big favor from vanderstratten.....placing the blame on anyone besides his son...

JA and Shirazu...i agree...this is simplier in the beginning....the cover up is what complicates it all...

when MJ worked at the allegro his uniform was grey pants and a white guard shirt....this was in Dec 04

He did.  The only thing that is confusing is why would he need to translate into Dutch a statement that was already taken in Dutch.  It could be an error in the Dutch statement.  Maybe the statement was taken in Papiamento, like Deepak's was then translated by Jacobs to Dutch.  All statement must be translated for submission to Dutch.

]

So to put it simply, there are some Americans with a lot to lose if a boycott of Aruba is successful. That might explain the motivation of some people who are so opposed to Natalee's family and the boycott itself.

Shizaru,

I appreciate all the hard work you have put into your timeline complete with statements inserted at the proper points and all the rest.

Certainly, I have considered the above but must respectfully say it is not in keeping with what we know of Natalee's personality, what I see with my own eyes as far as Joran and the fact that I just do not find him nearly as believable as you seem to find him.  In fact, I think he is the consummate pathological liar and much of your theory rests on the validity of statements made only by him or him in concert with his PIMPle friends and contrary to logic even in many instances by my own reasoning.  While I can see where you are coming from and agree to a certain extent it was a crime of opportunity, they laid a trap and it worked.  Had it not worked so well, yes, they might have had to return home empty handed.  But they had ample time to refine their technique over time and this was only Natalee's third day on that island.  No time to build the defenses to counter the trap.

But we can agree to disagree and still share information and work together which is the nice thing about a friendly forum which this one is, at least on occasion.   8)

I do know young men having reared a few of them myself and I just smell a rat with Joran's every word.  This is a game the locals played on the tourist girls and it is ugly and predatory and mean and very very dangerous.  As for Florie being involved, why not?  Loco Stephie surely was.  Drugged with Roofies or drugged with excessive alcohol, same thing in my book, he knew what 151 would do from his past experimentation with girls.  And if he admits to twenty times, I would guess it is more like forty.  They have been playing this game for a while it would appear.  Not just these three but many of the locals.

I think the reason Joran couldn't make up his mind as to whether or not to say Natalee was drunk or not is that he could not wrap his brain around it being illegal to have sex with a girl passed out from alcohol for after all she drank it herself so anything goes after that, right?  Wrong, but he didn't understand that being the chauvinist piglet that he is.  

If she drank it, it was her fault whatever happened while she might be passed out from booze was his thinking and that of, sadly, many men in this old world.  Raping somebody while they are passed out from ANY reason is the same, wrong, just as robbing them or beating them or committing any other crime against them would be but Joran didn't really believe that and so he kept changing her state in the beginning until somebody, likely Paulus, straightened him out on that detail.  

Paulus may have had to look that one up himself as it seems to be the prevailing attitude on that island that if you can get the booze/drugs down the girl's throat, it is a license to do as one pleases after that.

If the girls are drinking, they leave themselves open to any kind of attack these predators care to execute seems to be the prevailing attitude and that is just so wrong especially in a resort area but also universally.

With criminal law for his hobby, I think Joran had been thinking of alternatives all along and just what he would do when.  He even admitted I believe mid June that he and Deepak agreed to lots of chatter to make for an alibi.  Very little of this was spontaneous, it was a replay of the past and improvised as they gained experience.

All, in my most humble of opinions as always and I do respect yours as well.  I see where you are coming from but don't follow.  For example, if Natalee wanted to make some boy jealous, her friends would have been all over that even if she did not tell them so.  Girls just pick up on that like anything and even seem to imagine it at times.  And they would tell for sure, too.  Just the sort of thing they would tell, in fact.

Excellent point Shell.... I don't ever focus on the security guard story, because we all know it's bunk... but as you point this out... just goes to show how sloppy they all were...

i gotta go...see u monkeys later

I have no clue why ONLY Dennis Jacobs took Satish's statement.  I wondered about that as well.

Bye FOM.. check your email...pls.

I believe most of the development took place in the 1980's but sure, there would be plenty of US$$ involved not only in that but in the Timeshares there which I think is what we may see more of on internet forums.

Interestingly, state retirement plans often in the past had been sort of hawking timeshares and even in Aruba.  Little mentioned fact that the state retirement plans of both Alabama and Georgia to name two had at least exposed retirees to the possibility of investing in timeshares there.  Guess that is an off the record kind of thing and not sanctioned by the State Governments but I do know it happened.   :roll: Sort of like investing in private IRA with that being a way to make your retirement grow, etc.  Not necessarily buying an actual time share but investing in the holding companies that own them, etc.

So lots of money invested then and now and in lots of ways one would not think of or that are not readily apparent at first glance.  Sure hope not many went that route.

Now TWO Perjury/False Witness Prosecutions Are Available

As both 5/31/05 kalpoe statements are defined as "WITNESS" statements, they are both liable and open to perjury, obstruction of justice and contempt of court charges.

In fact -- they are openly exposed and vulnerable to these charges.

How Karen Jannsen fails to prosecute one of them for these obvious crimes -- and now proven in their own "WITNESS" statements, is shameful and a disaster for Aruba, and the Aruban judiciary.

This is an outright sham.  One cannot give an INTENTIONALLY FALSE statement as witness in a capital crime case and completely escape penalty.  And in many cases, those penalties would be severe, and would include years in jail and heavy fines.

Unbelievable that Jannsen has sat on these available prosecutions for 15+ months.

Oh, there was some coaching in there by Paulus so that Joran
would not be the last one to be seen with her. Way sooner than I thought earlier. The night that he takes the bag to Joran... whch Joran never mentions. He mentions everything else, the big clock at the Wyndham,,,, yadda yadda yadda. And it seems as if they never asked anything further. If Joran had been detained on " suspicion " sooner than June 9, 2005, then he might have lost his year ? Do you think ?

.
HAMMER,
If Arlene is to be believed at all, the Witnesses status later being elevated to SUSPECTS supersedes the witness element of their statement.  In other words, it would seem to give them permission to not only lie but obstruct justice in any manner they please and even extends to members of their immediate family.

I noted Spock and others yesterday saying this is total BS and while I agree it is totally illogical and I have never encountered anything like it, that is what she said and how she explained it.  I can't help it or do anything about it but that is just how she explained it in one of her "You don't understand our system" lectures.


Later, we learn from that same source also that much is LOCAL POLICY and not actually Dutch law at all.  So I wonder just who sets this so-called Local Policy and if this, too, falls under that rather than the letter of the law.  Lots of things seem to fall through that crack and must be the size of the Grand Canyon.  And at the time we did not realize Arlene was the cousin of Guido, fellow PIMP or whatever of Joran.

So we are also dealing with the concept of Local Policy.

In order to bring charges or prosecute, Karin Jaanssen would have to WANT to do so.  Obviously, she doesn't.  How any judge could read this and release all is also something to think about as well.

Shizaru
I, for one, respect and appreciate your very logical posts and try to "listen" carefully when you post. It takes some courage to go against the flow, but I think you have made a great point above. I did not take any offense to your theory and in no way thought you were blaming the victim. I also think it is very important that we have different opinions on the board. As I have said before, everyone has different strengths and talents. If we were all the same, or thought the same way, we would all fall into the same pit (make the same mistakes). Thanks for your persistance in getting your balancing thoughts on the board.


Now...and this is not a "BUT" :lol: ....

If I entertain your theory, I don't know what to do with the Kalpoes. If Natalee was alone with Joran when she died; if it was not a premeditated pimp event; if Natalee went willing and was not deceived or drugged, wouldn't that make the Kalpoes innocent of any wrongdoing? What would keep them from publicly proclaiming their innocence? Your thoughts?

Anna, I was there in early 1982 and everything was booming.  Construction everywhere.  I went back a few years later.  I think early 1990 and was amazed at how the island had taken shape, and how poorly it appeared the locals were living.  The squallor in which the locals live had gotten worse by the time I returned, and the high rose motels and other things were in full swing.  There were two worlds and they had not met except on the drug circuit and drugs were pushed at everyone, everywhere and yet the locals still lived in worse conditions than the noticeably poverty stricken areas of New Orleans as you enter from the Interstate.  In fact, New Orleans at its worse was better than the conditions many Arubans lived in and yet, there was the other side of the island, the other side of the story.  So much poverty and yet so much wealth.  The development and the money was wasted on those who had who could use even more without paying a decent wage to those who had not.

The only thing I disagree with here is I do believe that Joran actually hurt Natalee.  We've heard of his temper from Anita (as reported by Greta and Beth), the Warden of the Kia, and various rumors about encounters with tourists (girl - knife, boy - window of Dunkin Donuts - one of the MB boys).  Joran has expressed animosity towards Americans, his parents not only don't say "no", but they enable him to feel entitled and narcissistic.  I think Natalee, if she was conscious, said no, screamed or resisted and he "shut her up" (like Rudy Croes said he wanted to do to Beth).  I don't think he intended to kill her, but I do think she died at the hands of Joran vdSloot.

.
LilPuma,

I tend to agree that SOMETHING had to have happened to create the need for the professional cover-up.  Hard to believe this would have been done over an overdose for they would have just said Natalee took the drugs or drank the alcohol or whatever herself.

But as MsMarple's sig line asks, why disappear the remains if they had nothing to hide.  Why lie if they did nothing wrong?  Why cover up at all unless they had a very good reason to do so.

.

I very much respect Shizaru and appreciate all the hard work but I do believe Natalee was set up.  It is not coincidental that we see the Casino vidoes with a dealer seemingly giving a high sign to what appears to be Paulus.  It is not coincidental that immediately Joran's plan goes into action.  It is not coincidental that his arrival at C&Cs was very near closing time.  It is not coincidental that they all lied saying about the guards, about the timing, about drivers and I am not sure this same incident has played about 20 times before, but I think something similar, minus the death of a girl who rebuffed the advances of the sporter son of the wannta-be-judge and his wanna-be-miss-socialite with the see-thru-blouse.  It is not coincidental that they all want to blame the "white-haired," "white girl," 'niece of Hitler" who wanted "to see sharks," "who wanted to remain in Aruba."  These are all lies meant to prop up their lies, as Joran had done so many times with his superiors and parents, the enablers.

.
My, those Kelpoe boys are certainly into the fabric fiber content to both comment that the pants were cotton.  Nothing but natural fibers for those guards, huh?   :roll:

Thank you for this info, Spock.

 :shock:  Good comparison.  :lol:

Don't believe for a minute that Janssen cant charge and prosecute the "witnesses" for signing false declarations. There is no truth to the "supercede" theory or any other BS you might hear. They lied, it led to the false arrest of others, it took the heat off of them for awhile, and now its time to prosecute. Charges please.

That's what I think too...in fact, it's way past time to prosecute.

I'm think the first meeting to begin 'getting the stories straight' was right before Beth landed on Aruba...at the Racquet Club. I don't believe Paulus' bag excuse for going to the club.  That's the first Fabrication Meeting began, in my opinion.

I agree Anna.

In my opinion Karin Janssen did not do her job.  I am beginning to wonder if KJ is related to one of the suspects or someone involved in what happened that we don't know about.

I agree.

What kid would say he had cotton pants on.  Right there we know someone is helping them write these statements.  If you ask a kid what kind of pants he had on they would say he had black pants on.  Were they that good in giving details that they could even read the label on the pants.  I wonder if they knew what temperature they should wash them on or what size they were :roll:

Nancy Grace had a Dutch law professor on the show last fall and he clarified three points: (1) if there are false witness statements they can and should be charged for obstruction, (2) making false declarations is a serious crime resulting in jail time (3) plea bargaining is allowed at the discretion of the prosecutor, the judge, and the defense attorney.

I agree.  Forget the murder rap let's go with the lesser charge.

No, boys this age and even older NEVER read the label!!  I find the labels say things like hand wash, dry flat on little T Shirts sometimes like they are going to do that?  

Most I would venture could not name five different types of fabric either.  Not if still living at home as these were doing.  So odd they both said "cotton pants" instead of long pants or just pants or solid-colored pants, etc.

.

.
I was once chewed out and royally for misspelling supersede so just to be sure we are all on the same page with this, it is tricky being the only sede word in the English language but it is indeed supersede:

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.0.1) - Cite This Source new!
su‧per‧sede  /ˌsupərˈsid/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[soo-per-seed] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation

–verb (used with object), -sed‧ed, -sed‧ing. 1. to replace in power, authority, effectiveness, acceptance, use, etc., as by another person or thing.  
2. to set aside or cause to be set aside as void, useless, or obsolete, usually in favor of something mentioned; make obsolete: They superseded the old statute with a new one.  
3. to succeed to the position, function, office, etc., of; supplant.  


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Origin: 1485–95; < L supersedēre to sit above or upon, forbear, equiv. to super- super- + sedēre to sit1]

—Related forms
su‧per‧sed‧a‧ble, adjective
su‧per‧sed‧er, noun


—Synonyms 1. See replace. 2. void, overrule, annul, revoke, rescind.
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.0.1)
Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.
American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source new! su·per·sede (spr-sd)  Pronunciation Key    
tr.v. su·per·sed·ed, su·per·sed·ing, su·per·sedes
To take the place of; replace.
To cause to be set aside, especially to displace as inferior or antiquated. See Synonyms at replace.


[Middle English superceden, to postpone, from Old French superceder, from Latin supersedre, to refrain from  : super-, super- + sedre, to sit; see sed- in Indo-European Roots.]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
super·seder n.
super·session (-sshn) n.

(Download Now or Buy the Book) The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
Merriam-Webster's Dictionary of Law - Cite This Source new!
Main Entry: su·per·sede
Pronunciation: "sü-p&r-'sEd
Function: transitive verb
Inflected Forms: -sed·ed; -sed·ing
1 : to subject to postponement or suspension; especially : to suspend the operation of (a judgment or order) by means of a supersedeas
2 : to take the place of in authority : PREEMPT, OVERRIDE
3 : to take the place of and render null or ineffective

Merriam-Webster's Dictionary of Law, © 1996 Merriam-Webster, Inc.
WordNet - Cite This Source new!
supersede

v : take the place or move into the position of; "Smith replaced Miller as CEO after Miller left"; "the computer has supplanted the slide rule"; "Mary replaced Susan as the team's captain and the highest-ranked player in the school" [syn: supplant, replace, supervene upon]

WordNet ® 2.0, © 2003 Princeton University

Again, I do understand what you are saying and what you heard.  I do not understand how any judiciary or law enforcement agency could even begin to conduct an investigation with permitting false statements to be made with complete impunity.  But in order to prosecute, KJ has to see it as such and also as worthwhile for we know in this country many times perjury is overlooked in the prosecution of a greater crime.

I suppose KJ would say she did not do so as the case is still open and she is hoping to bring greater charges eventually.  And there is that Local Policy deal which seems to mean they will bend, twist or whatever the law to suit their immediate purpose and need.  Yes, I think she COULD do it but do I think she will?  In a word, no.  This is a woman who actually wrote to our Justice Department and asked if Beth Twitty could be related to Hitler so much does she buy into her friend's son's stories.


Does anyone else ever wonder if ALE is miffed about the Dutch coming in and are leaking these statements for some nefarious purpose?  Maybe they can't be used in court if leaked or they are trying to prove they really did question the suspects and don't realize how bad these statements make them look?  So far looks to me as though these statements could have all been taken if a very few days.  How long could it take for that one of Satish for example?  Half an hour tops maybe?

As Easy would sing,
~All Alone Am I. . .. . ~

BBL maybe when there are more here.

 8)

You are not alone Anna I just am running back and forth to my computer between chores.

Oddly enough, if one believes what the former poster Daniel shared, it appears that kidnapping carries a greater probability for a longer sentence under Dutch and Aruban law, than murder does? Something related to pleas as he detailed it...

I don't know if anyone remembers that thread but he explained this in detail once upon a time.

 :shock:  I haven't ruled such a scenario out and it certainly fits with Holland bringing their guns. Also fits with Joran beating his chest, "What do you want me to do about it?"

Humm, I are hooked on phonics.

I agree 1000%....The person responsible for Natalee's disappearance COULD be a Dutch citizen and why Interpol was called in. So...WHAT'S TAKING SO LONG?

That Monday morning two surf shop employees also "disappeared"

And the daily charter "Octopus" Trimaran went out & came back...
2 weeks later.

I'm not sure about the surf shop employees.  The only person I've seen tell that story is SandraK and I don't put much creedance into her tales.

That's what I think.  Once the 3 Pimps were arrested, Paulus and Croes were arrested and the media was in a frenzy, I think they would have come clean if they could pull off a "voluntary drug/alcohol induced overdose" or an accident of any kind.  There had to have been evidence of a crime - the car, the bloodstream, bruising, her clothes, somewhere, something.  It's clear that one of the main objectives in Aruba was to make sure that Joran finished high school (arrested after finals) and was able to start college on time (Judge did an about-face and let him leave for the Netherlands).   His punishment for being stupid and hurting a tourist was 3 months in jail - (really, Joran, even the druggies are told not to hurt the tourists).  So a slap on the wrist for obstruction, lying and hurting a tourist was 3 months in jail, even if that tourist was never seen again.  If not for folks like the Monkeys, that's the ONLY price he would have paid.  As it is, he's in something of a self-made prison and he's inspired a lot of influencial people to pursue this case.  When I hear and see the determination of people like Jossy, Dana, Klaas, Larry, Joe Mammana, Red and the Mrs., I start to believe that the van der Sloots and others in Aruba will, in fact, have to face the music.

Unlike our FBI, I doubt the average cold case investigator in Holland is expected to be ready to pack up and ship out for a few months at a moment's notice.  They may have other cases that they need to close out or turn over to someone else.  I also suspect there are documents that have to be signed by Aruba and The Netherlands to ensure that the Dutch police have full police power and authority; it seems that was what Aruba had to agree to in order to get this help.   It sounded to me like the Dutch didn't want to be helpers, observers or consultants.  If they want Holland to do it, they need to really turn the power over to these investigators and that would require some kind of legal agreement.  :::shrug:::  Just my take on the situation.

I hope the place where the Dutch team will be staying is always guarded.  I would bet anything that Aruba has the rooms, phones bugged.

It's like the claims that anything leaked to the press or public cannot be used in a court of law in Aruba.   I find this very hard to believe, but people have repeated over and over that Beth talking to the media is what side-tracked this case.  I think I read on Aruba.com that the Prosecutor typically does not talk to the media.  That's a long haul from can't be used in court if it gets out to the media.

I think they should ask the FBI to help them guard any statements, evidence and sweep the premises every day.  They could also help keep an eye on witnesses to make sure that after talking to the Dutch, they don't get a surprise visit from Jacobs or anyone else.

Well then they should have shut Gerald Dompig, Steve Cohen, and Julia Renfro up because they are the biggest offenders.

Hi Tyler! Did those video clips show a dealer making some kind of a sign? I musta missed that. Anyone? Do we have any stills?

Did KatzHome comment on it?

Hi everyone!  Whats the status of rumors, new Dutch Team arriving, new suspects and anything on the news about the case?

Satish's 5/31/05 Witness Statement is posted on the front page.

 :lol:  :lol:
Definately odd details both to remember!

The statements by 2K about what the guards are wearing are too similar to not have been rehearsed.  Also, what were the guards wearing that night?  If they weren't working that night at the Allegro or anywhere else, they wouldn't have had walkie talkies.   Sounds like Jacobs knew these guys, didn't like them, and figured he had a couple of scapegoats to show the Cowboys until the family and media left the island.

Thanks I guess I will read the statements that were given..  Everyone have a good night..

Jacobs seems to be everywhere?  Is he sleeping with Julia Renfro?

No comment :lol:

I have been saying the boat Natalee and her friends took to go scuba/ snorkeling was the Calypso. Could I be wrong? Could it have been the Octapus? Does anyone know?

I know I went to the website for it back early on but then it was gone. No longer existed. Help.....

Oh, please don't make me think about either of them naked.  :(  :x

...for both to remember.  :wink:

Hi monks!

Hey Monkey friends!  What's up?

(http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h291/SunFreak2/WhosThere.gif)

Think it's becoming quite obvious that all the statements, interviews and tell all's have been fully scripted and rehearsed from the start and the ALE was complicit in keeping them that way.

I'm having trouble getting to Dana's show tonight.  Doesn't it start at 9pm?

Hey Klaas, i see that BFN Debbie is saying that Joran's 5/31 statement is not available for transcription. Do you think that is correct? I am starting to think that Jacobs tore it up and threw it in the garbage.

Hi SunFreak!

 :D What cute friends you have.


Carnut, YEP!

I don't think it's available right now, not sure if it will be available in the future or not.

I must run out for about an hour.

:?   ummmm....not that anyone would notice whether I was here or not, obviously.....

I'll be back anyway, though!  :D

Not true!  Hurry back!

Thats one of the pre-arrest statements Art Wood said was pulled from the files. Art said none of Jorans declarations prior to about June 9 could be accounted for. I hope they turn up.

Hey Memphis,
I was too busy stealing your little Sheltie icon for my dog collection.  At least I think it is a Sheltie but might be full sized collie.

That's what I do. . . . just come back anyway and talk to myself some more, lol.   :D

How about Paulus and Karin Janssen?  Her behavior just makes me wonder.   :roll:

HELLO....

Isn't Dana doing a show tonight starting at 9pm?  Is anybody else having trouble getting it to come in?

OK I'll comment.  Makes me wonder also.

Weren't there rumors to about that in the beginning of the case?

Well if it was a rumor it must be true.

Who pulled it and where did it go?  Could the answer be Dennis Jacobs and onto his desk in itty bitty pieces?  He TOLD those boys to say Fisherman's Hut ten times!!  How long did it take Joran at least to pick up his cue?  Are the Kelpoes just too dense to take a hint or what?

Ah, but the videos still exist, don't you bet??   :roll:  :evil:

Thanks for sharing that adorable monkey pic...too cute!

Yes, some rumors speculated that activity to be one of the causes of PVDS returning early from Holland without AVDS.

Will someone please answer me about Dana's show?

Thank you?

.
Why didn't you search the entire van der Sloot property?

Paulus wouldn't let us!  Paulus wouldn't let us!!   :?

We couldn't go in like cowboys!!   :roll:

.

Sorry I don't know.

Hi everyone, I haven't been here for ages.

Good Evening Monkeys!  As always, interesting conversation going on right now.  

Anna used my favorite word to describe this entire mess...nefarious.  I just love that word.  :wink:

Hi there, Louise.  Good to see you.

Hi LaLas, Carnut and Sunfreak

Hi Monkeys...
I was going to try & listen to Dana Tongiht... Have had problems   but just got it to work

http://st106.startlogic.com/~cbandtal/net.html

Just so ya know....

SeeYa

Anna, Shell and San, OldFart

This is what I am wondering Anna.  What happens if they don't produce the videos?

Klaas, may I ask? Is there any hope of finding justice for Natalee or are we just going over the new "facts" as they come out and trying to analyze them?

Hi to Louise and Lalas.

Haven't seen you guys for a while.

BT!  Kisses.

Hi BT, have you been a good little girl lately?

Hi Louise how are you.

You just haven't been frequenting the rest of the forums on the site.

I've been butting heads with Louise almost continuously.

Thanks OldFart.  It's working for me now too.

Thanks CarNut, for answering me.

Hi Mama Louise!  How are you?!!!

HI Louise and who ever is hanging around

Louise
I can not speak for any other Monkey   but there always is HOPE for JUSTICE.  New facts or new lies ?? coming out are being discussed.

Read my sig. line..  
It may take longer than we want  but Justice does have a way of handed out...  JMO

Out the door for FOOD...
SeeeYaByeeeeee all

There is hope for justice... I totally believe that.

Is anyone else watching the 911 movie on ABC?

Not me, I think I kinda kept up with most of what really happened thru those years.

Hope that's not too much ego on my part to think so.

Hi SunFreak, how's my girl?

I've been hanging out on the "lower" threads. You must read my post with pics in the Black Dahlia thread.

Honey hush, I always notice you!!!  I just run in and out a lot and sometimes have to read what is being said instead of talking myself....

No

Yeah, that Dahlia adventure is definitely a must read.

Sun yes he is ... and I am coming in too late for an answer, I am sorry :oops:

Carnut is twisting the truth. We have not been butting heads, we have just been commenting. Carnut makes me smile.

Mrs. Red, yes I plan to watch the ABC movie. I hope I can stay awake for the whole thing. I've been known to fall asleep sitting up on my sofa with my dinner plate in my lap, and then wake up at 3 a.m. only to find my meal scattered, eaten and played with by the cats.

San, it's really good.  It is not "too" doctored but it will make anyone angry about all the lost chances to nip this terrorism in the bud when we could have... the waffling and stupidity... grrr...


and yes, y'all have to check out LV's photos...

LV, I am glad to hear that you plan to watch it... I can't wait to discuss it with you in our thread....

It's a deal, Mrs. Red.

waving at SunFreak - I wish I knew - I can't get the link to work either?

Maybe we have the wrong night?

K... sorry for the o/t y'all I am going to go and finish watching the movie... I just wanted to pop in and say that it is worth watching... I don't care which side of the political fence you may be on... it's just so informative.

Dana was going to have a show tonight.... I had planned on listening to the podcast later...

ok thanks Mrs Red, it looks like I skipped over some posts answering the question anyway  :oops:

I have to stay in and talk to y'all ... this movie is just so hard to watch...

That period of time was part of what caused so much political polarization in the country. Just observing those events in real time was what put so many conservatives so vehemently against the 'clintons'.

I am confused, are Joran's pre-arrest statements in the translation pipeline, or are they missing from the files as Art Wood said??

I think the consensus is that there are no pre-arrest statements from JVDS.

I'll be back. Have to go cook.

I'm not sure.

I'm feeling quite frustrated, I can only imagine how the family must feel.

I guess I am on ignore. I have asked the same sort of question for the last few days. It turns out I was wrong on the name of the boat. It was not Calypso. It was Octopus.

This supposedly was the one that Natalee and her friends went snorkeling/ scuba on. Klaas is going to shoot me because I do not know how to do the tiny urls. I think this one should be small enough to not blow the margins. This is the boat Florida mentioned leaving Aruba the day after Natalee disappeared. Monday am. It was said it was a planned vacation.

When I saw this website before I thought it had a picture of Captain Jethro where you could see his eyes and they were blue. This picture he has on sunglasses.

According to this site there are no Sunday cruises listed. From my memory it was supposed to have been a cruise they were on before going to the Excelsior.

Just idle speculation on my part but I have often wondered if the cab drivers story was true and Nat said she was in love with a blue eyed Dutch boy if she could have been kidding about Jethro. Much to old for her but cute. Ok heres the site.

http://www.octopusaruba.com/index.html

Hi there Sam...I see you...the hall monitor sees all. :wink:

Hi Sam you are not on ignore.

Captain Jethro looks like a crackhead.

Thank you Lala'sMom. By the way I had a brief email from Darleen this morning. I think she may be home now. Hope she comes in to see us before long. Oh she will be upset when she has to learn to do her avatar and Tiara again. I still have not figured it out. LOL

When the SGs were in jail their attorney Chris Lejuez was given access to the Kalpoes statements, but not Joran's. So this issue goes way back.

San , I am not sure what a crackhead looks like. LOL

I thought he was kinda cute. Had a friendly looking smile. JMHO

Sorry about the delay in getting back to you.  

I'll go read your post - it sounds like it'll be interesting.   :D

The Tiara Queen is back? :shock:

Sorry if I ignored some people who spoke to me a while back.  :oops:

I left to go address a book to my friend Lalas. :D

Sunfreak
Thanks for remembering Nemo last night.  It was sweet of you.

Not ignoring you I just don't believe the story. So what happened?  Natalee ran away with Jethro?  Jethro found Natalee on the beach and killed her?  Jethro found Natalee on the beach and sold her as a sex slave?  Seems very unlikely.  Why would Natalee be targeted in such a way?

How sweet.  :wink:

Klaas ,

 again just speculation, but what do we really know about Jethro Gesterkamp other than he does these cruises? Does he know the vander Sloots? Since he was leaving on this planned vacation cruise anyway. The radar that doesn't work would have paid no attention to him leaving. He could be a good source for a body disposal.

Well, ya know, I AM the sweet one.  :P  8)

Interesting.  If he's been doing this gig for 25 years, that would make him somewhere in his 40's.  He's a far sight better that Paulus, but still old enough to be Natalee's father.  Somehow, I don't see an 18 yo girl like Natalee, interested in a man that age.  

If that taxi story is true, perhaps it was during the ride back from CnC's that Friday nite after the alleged groping by GVC.  Maybe it was all facetious remarks, and the cabbie didn't quite understand it all.

I'm sure there were many boats leaving Aruba that weekend.  It was an American holiday weekend and also the Soul Beach music festival.

I'm sold on J2K & P's culpability in this tragedy.  Too many lies and too much cover-up for it to be anyone else, as far as I am concerened.

I see that over the last couple of days we have been given a few tidbits to chew on for a while... the Satish statement (he actually SPEAKS! Wonder of wonders!) the posts by Florida, the whereabouts of Joran's pre-detention statements, etc.

Some of this stuff has NEVER come out before- that Joran's first statements may have been destroyed, and that people went missing he following day.

I am just hoping that "details" which could turn the case even now, have not fallen victim to time and /or a shredder or bonfire.

OOPs! the radar was for the planes. But i do remember Dompig saying they knew all the boats that left the harbors.

Also, this is the first time I have heard that JVDS and Deepak were at CC's the night before and offered a MB guy a ride back to the hotel.

DRY RUN

SMOKESCREEN

BUILD TRUST

That is more than "Hey, let's pick up some girls tonight". (JVDS said that was the object of the "spontaneous" run to CC's on Sun. evening)

Ooooooh, aruba was just mentioned on the 1970 movie 'Lovers and Other Strangers'.

Someone went on their honeymoon to aruba back then.

I vote for the bonfire.  :roll:

Appearing in the Trade Register of the Chamber of Commerce and Industry in ARUBA since 8 NOVEMBER 1994 under serial number 17922.0 is the company with the trade name:
 
 
OCTOPUS
 
Business address BORANCANA 12, NOORD  
Legal form  SOLE OWNERSHIP  
Name of the company  OCTOPUS  
Date of commencement  16 AUGUST 1994  
     
   
OWNERS/PARTNERS  
 
GESTERKAMP, TOM ADRIAAN;  
Residing in  BORANCANA 12, NOORD, ARUBA  
Born in  THE NETHERLANDS, DEN HAAG on 23 SEPTEMBER 1957  
Nationality  DUTCH  
Position  OWNER  
Effective  8 NOVEMBER 1994  
Authority  FULL  
   
OBJECTIVE(S) OF THE COMPANY  
 
TO OPERATE A WATERSPORT COMPANY

It's really hard to formulate a good lie when you have done this 20 times before.

CHRIS LEJUEZ, ATTORNEY FOR ABRAHAM JONES: Nancy, i have seen only the statements of two of the three men. The evidence that i got, the documentation, the files that i recieved from the prosecuter's office contained only two of the statements.

My colleague has asked the prosecuter why only the two, not the one of the Dutch boy? She was told by the prosecuter, at least by the prosecuter's office, that the statement would not be relevant to the case of her suspect, her client.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0506/09/ng.01.html

 :arrow: Was Joran's 5/31 statement "not relevant" to the case against the SGs because...he did not include them in his statement? Did Joran abandon the HI lie on 5/31?

Sunfreak,
I hope you read my reply to Klaas. No I do not seriously think Natalee would have truly been interested in a man over twice her age but it has happened.

I am just thinking if he had been doing these cruises for that long of a period of time he would have got to know a lot of the locals. Again a good source for a body disposal. I also think the real culprit is Joran. I am still not sure on the Kalpoes. It is possible though.

Anyone else pondering why Joran's pre-arrest statements would be destroyed, while Deepak and Satish would be left intact. They probably had the same info, since all came from the same place (Paulus' imagination and deviant brain) Why deep-six Joran's ONLY?

Destroyed because they were  :arrow:  not the same. The prosecuter's office stated that Joran did not implicate the SGs, IMO.

Well, from reading those statements you can clearly see a contrived story in the making. Maybe Joran  decided to blame the K2 and something went wrong.

Why?  Because Joran is GUILTY.  The Kalpoe's are peripheral, and there's were probably saved to pin the whole thing on them.

The truth , the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

I suspect everyone.

More insight on the missing 5/31 statement, thank you

Klaas, thank you for doing the research on Gesterkamp. So since 1994 on his ownership.

Also noticed he was born in 1957. That is the year I was married so 49 years.

To me, this could be a hint that the Kalpoes saw a different ending sequence, or an earlier one, than Joran did. Maybe Joran saw "other people" AND KNEW THEIR SIGNIFICANCE and deliberately left them out of his version (to diminish their importance), whereas the Kalpoes never actually saw 2 men, but were told to mention the 2 men in a certain way, to "cover" for anyone having seen Natalee being led off by 2 men immediately after being handed over by Joran.

The fabrication out of THIN AIR of 2 Security Guards has always seemed suspect to me and has NEVER made sense. Alibis and excuses almost ALWAYS begin with a kernel of truth that gets embellished and redone in the telling.

Did Joran transact an encounter with 2 men and deliberately not mention them, while telling the Kalpoes to describe them the way he wanted, to fit the cover story he and Paulus contrived?

Spock
The ALE knew or at the least suspected that the SG story was a lie early on.  I would bet almost before KJ charged in like cowboys and took them away.  It was just show on their part.  They were stalling for time to help the Sloots and the K2 got in the way.

OK, I'm somewhat confused.  I thought she met GVC when snorkeling or was that watersking?  If she hadn't met GVC prior to Friday nite, what would possess him to target Natalee to grope?

Good question.

Maybe someone was watching him to see how she reacts.

GVC works for Pelican Water Sports.  You see photos of him near the inner tubes and the parasailing.  I don't think he has anything to do with the Octopus which takes you on some of the snorkleing trips.

I wish we knew who it was with her at the Wyndham argueing with her over buying a piece of jewelry.  Has anyone ever confirmed that story and the video or is that just an internet rumor from RU?

That would have MAJOR implications.

Joran deliberately strayed away from the script given to the Kalpoes.

I believe he did so partly out of fear. Of the guys who would be angry at his having mentioned them. The Kalpoes, unknowingly, were set up to mention the 2 guys and become canaries (and we know what the bad guys do those who sing).

In other words, Paulus instructed the Kalpoes in the cover story in order  to have them make targets out of themselves for retribution.

Unconfirmed

I recall Beth said she was in a police meeting on about June 1-2 when it was acknowledged the SG story was a lie. Art Wood said (on Dana's show)it was clear to everyone in law enforcement that the SGs were innocent at the time of their arrest a few days later.

You're welcome SPOCK. Seeing this Lejuez interview was shocking to me. The prosecuter is saying that Joran does not implicate the SGs on 5/31. That much is clear to me. It's starting to look like Jacobs is trying to get them all on the same page. And Janssen.

Joran's June 9th suspect statement:


We drove back to the Holiday Inn Hotel to drop Natalee off there. When we arrived there Deepak parked on the left lane and not on the right lane that lies in front of the Lobby. Natalee got out the back door on the right side and she fell to the floor. I got out of the same car door and helped her get up. After I did that Natalee said to me not to touch her and she walked into the direction/towards the lobby. I saw that she touched a pillar. We did not kiss and I got back into the car. Then we drove home. Later, when we just found out she had gone missing Deepak and Satish told me that they had seen a guard dressed in black when we were driving off. According to them the guard also had a walkie talkie in his hands. Deepak and Satish said that the guard walked towards/in the direction of Natalee. (with Natalee is meant the missing woman named "Natalee Ann HOLLOWAY"; comment Jacobs).

I thought Deepak said he was responsible for that part of the lie.  He embellished the story that first night with the Twittys.  He admitted and apologized to the SGs.

This is interesting. Following what SB is saying, here Joran is seperating himself from the SG story.

I just find the whole 2 SG's matter to be suspicious.

There was no pre-existing vendetta against AJ and MJ where anyone would want to set them up. Why randomly pick out 2 guys for no good reason? Why not have the cover story just say, we left her by herself at the HI driveway entrance? That is the easiest and smoothest story to tell.

For some reason, the Kalpoes were told to say that 2 guys were there.

Why?

 :lol: Sounds like something The Fab Five would say..LOL!

Can someone please direct me to a discussion about Larry Garrison and his supposed new lead?
I am completely lost here with all that has been discussed of late.
TIA.

It could be a figment of Julia's imagination...did I say that?  Yes, I did.  :lol:

Thanks Klaas, odd that we can't review the 5/31 Joran statement to see if he discussed a walk on the beach by the fisherman huts. Jacobs had a reason (tip) for asking that question of D and S.

 :shock:  :lol: What a 'visual' !

"MISSING" jvds Witness Statement

sb writes: "...The Kalpoes, unknowingly, were set up to mention the 2 guys and become canaries (and we know what the bad guys do those who sing)..."

IMO, the most direct and simple reason for jvds "witness" statement to be missing, especially at time of K2 attorney press story which is dated June 9, 2005 would be that it doesn't exist (or that it has been destroyed).

IMO, wholly possible that jvds never gave an "Official" witness statement, though he may have said many things to polis and others.

And now if you were Paulus, and looking for some insurance, or even looking for a way to set up k2 and get the goon child off free and clear, do you think you would consider witholding a "witness statement" made by son, and allowing INTENTIONALLY FALSE witness statements to be signed by k2 -- thereby exposing k2 to perjury/false witness, obstruction and contempt charges?

I sure do.

With those false witness statements signed, submitted and on file, who do you think looks "more guilty."  That would be k2.

Yes. In the backseat tapes Deepak admits the SG story was his baby. Joran alternately has blamed it on himself and Deepak together and just Deepak.

That's what I always thought it was, along with the cabbie blue eyed dutch marine story.

The plan was to implicate the K2 all along.  Deepak was telling the truth when he said they all had sex with her and Joran knew he needed another alibi and so he was planning to let the K2s take the fall...then Beth happened.  They never expected a mother with such determination.

Yes, now looking at the statements, that appears to be what was happening.

My understanding of this was that they could charge the K Bros with making false statements as witnesses, but then they could not up the charges. This leaves the question: What do they do with Joran ?
He didn't point the finger at the guards, it was the Kalpoes.
There were no charges against Steve Croes either .

Hi there, it's good to see you.  I am sorry, I don't know where that discussion is...I missed it as well.

Sounds more like a nightmare to me.  :lol:

You are assuming we don't have or aren't going to be able to review Joran's 5/31 statement.  I don't know that's the case.  I say let's wait and see if it becomes available...I really don't know if it is but I'm not ready to say it's not.

I agree Hammer.  Didn't Joran say that he called Deepak in the middle of giving his own statement to ask Deepak what Natalee had been wearing?  I've never heard of any police allowing someone to call someone else to ask them for details while giving a statement.  Didn't he also warn Deepak that he & Satish would have to give a statements later that day? Somethink is hinky with this whole deal of witness statements given on 5/31.  Why would the polis pickup Deepak & Satish for their statements, yet Paulus was allowed to go get Joran and deliver him to the poliz?  And why at the Bubali precint & not at Noord?  How many precints are there in Aruba? When Dave arrived in Aruba he says he had to go to 3 different precints to find someone who knew about NAtalee's case.  I wonder if he stopped at the Bubali precint?

There really wasn't much said.  It was pretty vague:

GMA....9/7

Larry Garrison was on talking about the case in Aruba...also plugging his book.....he said, right now that someone has come forward in this case, and is telling everything they know. He of course wouldn't elaborate.

I think I am calling it a night.  See you monkeys later.  Has anyone seen CP405 lately?  Hugs to Nemo.   :wink:

I agree w/ Hammer that PVDS may have set them up THAT way.

What I am trying to derive is the methodology whereby the K2 decided to tell a story of 2 SG's that didn't exist. We KNOW the HI scenario is fiction with-or without- the 2 guys anyway. What prompted them to fit the 2 guys in there? Either:

1. Paulus told them to say it, or

2. They came up with the idea as an embellishment of what Paulus told them to say.

All right, in the K2's shoes for a second (ugh)... Paulus is the Master of All Things, the Benefactor, the Hope of exoneration, the Big Wheel who will get them OFF THE HOOK. He gives them a story. What would you do with the story if in their spot?

In their spot, they hew to the Party Line, CHAPTER, VERSE, VERBATIM, down to the last jot and tittle. NO editorializing, NO embellishments. Stick to the script, boys, and all will be well.

Besides, I don't think either of them is smart enough to think up an additional detail like that.

I believe for some esoteric reason, Paulus included the SG sequence as part of the cover story. Now why?

Nite Lala's - no I haven't seen CP405.

Oh..I remember this now...This statement most likely nailed Joran on something...

1.  Because Joran leaving an obviously drunk girl to fend for herself would seem better if Joran left her in the hands of a security guard?

2.  Because PVDS knew that some of the SG's sold drugs to the tourists and would be easy targets?

3.  Paulus didn't expect Beth, Jug and Dave to show up and ruin his plans otherwise the SG and HI story would have worked?

Had the 4 girls reported the attempted break-in while they were taking their nap? They said they saw what was a the backside of someone dressed in black rounding the corner just as they got to the sliding door.   Paulus must have thrown the SG guard in b/c of this report, and then Jacobs, the narcotics officer, got Boeti to say it was Johns & Jones.

I agree Klaas.

I vote that it's an internet rumor.

I saw CP405 in the Monkey Lounge last week.

I'm now wondering if Jacobs came up with the security guard story and the Fisherman's Huts story.  Joran's missing statement tells me he said things that Paulus & Friends didn't want on the record, some of which Jug and friends heard.  Before issuing another statement, they had to get their ducks in a row so that Joran's statement wouldn't incriminate him.  Unfortunately, Charles Croes, Jug and his friends, the DEA agent, and Anita van der Sloot all repeated some of the things he said before vdStraaten, Jacobs and Paulus could cover all their bases.

ALL 3 Could Be true... Taking all 3 in order, my questions would be:

1. Doesn't this work better if Joran HIMSELF says it? "I left her with 2 SGs". This would play into the angle of Anita's "There were adults there" statement. Joran seems to have failed to stick up for himself in this manner.

2. This may be the most plausible reason of the 3, for Paulus to put 2 layers of separation into the mix instead of just 1. Instead of trying to pin it on K2, he lets them pin it on other unknown persons.

3. The story was so transparently full of holes, it likely would have fallen apart even if the HT family had been delayed a month getting down there. If I recall, Beth was far more concerned with searches than in proving or disproving the veracity of anyone's story. She only went proactive in calling for the SG's release when it was obvious to HER that they were a rabbit trail and a dead end that was erroneously being run down, that confused the investigation and put roadblocks in the way of finding Natalee. Her immediate influence in disproving the story was not so great at first. In other words, she didn't oppose the story and interfere, until more or less after the fact.

I agree.  Joran said something wrong or mentioned someone she should not have.

:::::waving back at LilPuma:::::

Good point.  Jossy seems to believe it vdSTraaten being an honest cop.  Oduber & vdSTraaten were at odds.  It doesn't make sense that the top cop & the PM would be at odds if they were both corrupt.  So if we consider vd Straaten to be good cop, and Jacobs the dirty cop, how would this change the scenario of the cover-up?

Deepak: Off the Reservation on 6/11

Deepak comes out w/ the beach drop-off story on 6/11 in his "suspect statement" -- breaking the party line on the HI story and "officially" goes off the reservation...

WHY?

After all, he has lied as a "witness" in a capital crime case, he has perjured himself and is open to numerous additional charges.  His attorney learns that there is no "relevant" jvds "witness" statement on 6/9. (And this TRUE, whether a jvds witness statement exists or not.) And within 48 hours, deepak is singing a completely different tune.

I believe deepak and his attorneys correctly surmised and deduced they were being set up.  And this would be wholly keeping w/ Paulus method of having a "plan B" if the arrest of the guards failed to produce desired outcome.  The longer k2 sticks with HI lie, the worse the perjury gets, the worse the potential obstruction charges get.

To protect himself and his brother, he goes off the reservation.  He tells the "truth" on 6/11 -- directly implicating jvds as last person w/ Natalee.  He does so because he is threatened and exposed.

The stated "IRRELEVANCE" of the jvd witness statement by k2 attorney is clear signal, during 6/9-6/11 w/ security guard/HI story collapsing, the sloots will try to pin k2, and their own FALSE WITNESS statements are Exhibit 1.

So if there was a 6/10 confession, we can assume it wasn't Deepak's if he changes his story on 6/11 to distance himself from the HI lies.  Or maybe it is to back Joran's 2nd set of lies about the FH's to keep the heat away from the real site of the crime.

I've always thought that the insertion of the 2 Security Guards was due to a key missing word: 2 BLACK Security guards. My impression is that racism is alive and well on Aruba, and particularly in the VDS mind. I remember the insertion of Natalee's ALLEDGED slave comments re: K2. There seems to be a mindset that inserting race can help them solve something or distract blame away from them.


HI GUYS!

2 other deep, mysterious tidbits from that night still haunt me to this day, and they have IMO never been adequately discussed. Anyone remember the following 2 facts/rumors/opinions?

1. The report of 2 men dragging a hysterical female into a car in the N part of the hotel strip area.

2. The forum post where someone addressed Joran and asked about his "3:45 AM boat ride".

We are digging deep into the fateful night... why don't we bring these up as well?

Let's not forget about the CONFESSION/RETRACTION!

#2 - I was actually posting in the TripAdvisor forum when that post about the 3:45 am boat ride was posted.  They deleted it soon after it was posted claiming it was a troll/hoax.  I'm not so sure now.

But on that note... the dreaded "eyelid" rule is coming into play... I am starting to fall asleep at the keyboard.

I'm going to sign off but I think we should go through this and re-examine ALL of the movements on Aruba that night. There simply HAS to be an answer beneath all the garbage (I'm not primarily referring to the landfill).

See y'all tomorrow!

sb, I remember your points, but have forgotten the source of the hysterical female report. Do you recall where that came from? TIA

This was supposedly a maid at the Marriott Resort who heard a female screaming and looked out a window and saw this.  Yet did she report it to anyone at the time?  I think it's another rumor just like the HI dumpster story.

.
Is it not a single security guard the Kelpoes claim to have seen with Natalee instead of two?  I read both their statements as speaking of a solitary, sole guard, not two guards.

Remember Anita first said there were "adults" where Joran left Natalee, too. so there again, who does she mean?  People at the HI?  

But is it not a single guard they report seeing approaching Natalee?  True, he does have the walkie talkie and appears to be using it.  That would require a second person I would assume but as far as their false story, doesn't it just speak of the one guard?  

And yet two were arrested.   :shock:

Uh boy, I need to process these new possibilities.  I always thought that vdStraaten, who didn't want to do this to his friend's son, was the guy who assigned Jacobs to the case and orchestrated the coverup.  I even thought that Oduber and Rudy Croes were complicit, perhaps to keep their own "indiscretions" secret.  Oduber supposedly had vdStraaten's office searched before he left - vdStraaten was very angry.  vdStraaten was seen with Jacobs after leaving Aruba and he wasn't supposed to be there.  Oduber twice asked for FBI involvement.  Sure doesn't look to me like vdStraaten is the honest cop.  Now we have reason to suspect that Jacobs came up with the idea of the FH dropoff.  He's always been our suspect for hand-picking the two guards to arrest.   :?  I have to process this.   :(

lol, looks like a crackhead to me too, old beyond his years, but the sun will do that to a person too

Now I have to back read, just getting here again, good to see you Louise

SB,
Wasn't the source of Item #1 Steve Croes?  Was he the only one who claimed to have heard this hysterical woman?  I seem to remember Sleuth stating that he could not have heard it from his vantage onboard the Tattoo that night, is that correct?  If no one heard it except SCroes, I just can't believe anything he says or any of the PIMP crew really.

The second Item I have not heard before I don't think.


.

Yep Anna, 2 arrested, one mentioned in the witness statements.   Did Joran actually say that about getting her safely back to adults first or was  that Anita, and then Joran followed suit in his Current Affair interview?

IIRC, the source of #1 was a maid at the Marriott who heard a female scream, looked out a window and saw it happening.  My question is if this happened did she report it to the poice or the hotel security or anyone at the time it occurred?

.
OK, just wanting to keep that straight that the Kelpoes claimed only ONE guard and yet TWO arrested.  That seems to mean something to me in some obscure way.

I heard Anita say that about Joran leaving Natalee with adults but then she would likely count the Kelpoes as adults compared to her deilcious baby sporter.  Not sure if Joran claimed that himself or not.  

I need to process this as Li'lPuma said.  If they did not like Joran's statement of 5/31, why didn't they just make up one as vdStraaten did later?  Something about that I need to think about as well.

.

I would love to stay and discuss this further, but gotta get to bed.

Nite all!

Anna - check your email - I sent it again.  :D

.
Now I remember it as SCroes claimed he heard that and even Sleuth saying how unlikely he could see or hear anything there as he claimed from his vantage aboard the Tattoo.

Klaas, do you remember or not?  I wonder where Sleuth is for I am sure she would recall saying that.  I don't remember a maid seeing it but remember one witnessing the loading of the contents of a room at HI and taking to the dump.  Odd since they have their own at the hotels, incinerators too.  Incinerators, hum. . ..

Sunfreak, you may be right on the maid instead of croes as my brain is sort of fried right now with too much info and other stuff so will have to get confirmation if possible.

I want to catch the 911 coverage on CNN Pipeline beginning at 8:30am. They are carrying a replay of the day in real time as it happened from 8:30 - midnight. So.......I'm going to turn in. Have a nice nite, monkeys!

I remember the story but I don't remember if it came from S Croes.  I'll see if I can dig anything up on it.

.
Goodnight Sunfreak2 and Crazybabyborg,

I am going soon, too, and will try to watch the CNN special in the morning if it is not too upsetting.   :(

Am really tired and so having a hard time really concentrating on the ramifications of these new statements but tomorrow is another day.. . .

.

The name of one of the guards came from the Holiday Inn staff.
And now , without going way back, to almost the very start, I can't remember which alibi was which.
a.) He was at the Soul Fest with his wife. His whereabouts was accounted for all evening.
b.) The other one was at the Holiday Inn that night "visiting " but left at midnight. His Mum was unsure of what time he came home, as he was a grown man and she didn't monitor his comings and goings.
That info was on CNN right at the beginning and it came from their lawyers who were on CNN. ( Must have been N. Grace, because that was the channel I was following this one ) .
These two had worked at the Allego and one got dragged in because he knew the other from there.
There are CNN transcripts available from the early days.

Hello everyone!!  Hope all had a good weekend...

I pick door number 3.   :wink:

"Betty" on FP

klaas --

Wasn't deepak's e-mail, originally posted by poster WonderWoman, addressed to "Betty"?  To Chicago, I thought.

This "Betty" is posting under the deepak witness statement thread on FP.

.

Yep, and that's who I think she is.  The Deepak alibi email was addressed to a woman by the name of Betty.  According to WW Betty befriended Deepak at the Cyberzone, just as THIS Betty did.

Betty posted on FP as early as June 17, 2005:
I believe that Natalie is still alive and hiding somewhere on the island. I pray this is true for the respect of her parents and the three young men that they are holding.
I happen to know the driver of the car, and he would not hurt a fly.
I wish all of you would have more positive thoughts, and do alot more praying instead of slinging mud at everone..Maybe she don’t want to be found! Or she has gone to another island. It’s food for thought.

.
Has Betty admitted being the one to whom the original Deepak email/game plan was sent?  I see someone has posted and asked her just that so we will see what she says.  I thought the email Betty was supposed to be a very elderly lady something like 72 years old that WW elaborated on.

Anyone else remember that age?  Well, that email has now been refuted even by Deepak so I don't see why she says he is a gentleman and all the rest when it is so obvious he is a stone cold liar from her email.

.

.
After all the time I have spent on this tragedy, it just today dawned on me that Joran says DEEPAK said there was a security guard.  I thought Joran claimed to have seen him and probably closer than the other two since he actually got out of the car.

Anyone know from memory, assuming anyone is still here, if Joran says ANYWHERE that he also saw this security guard?

This is a new spin to me.  I must have missed that important point along the way.

.

Plus Joran said that it was Deepak that made up the SG story on the way to the VDS home when Beth and the gang arrived and went to the home looking for him, remember?  So, Joran is completely placing the blame of the SG guard story on Deepak.

I did actually mean to post something...

I do remember WW talking about this woman "Betty".  She stated she was, in fact, an elderly woman, although I don't exactly remember her age...

Just letting you know what I remembered...

Plus Joran said that it was Deepak that made up the SG story on the way to the VDS home when Beth and the gang arrived and went to the home looking for him, remember?  So, Joran is completely placing the blame of the SG guard story on Deepak.[/quote]

Klaas,
That part I got but the fact that Joran did not physically SEE the SG I must have just totally missed some how.  That blows my mind, too.  Doesn't take much some days,  :?

ThirdStrike,
Thanks, yes she did seem to discuss this Betty and email excessively and I think now we know why.   :?

.

Hi guys, couldn't sleep so I thought I would go look at some sites.  I came across this.  Gottenbos house for sale, its the 3rd one down.  Look at the price!!!  I honestly don't think they want to sell it, just put it up to make things look like that.

http://www.arubarealestate.com/search/real.mv?next

Actually Anna, I may be the only one that don't know why here... :oops:

I've been pretty busy this weekend, and haven't been able to cacth up.  What are you guys referring to here?  Any info you could provide would be appreciated...

.
HotShot,
I can't gauge the price of the houses because the market is so much higher than in my area but I see some that seem just as expensive so not sure if theirs is out of line or not.  Maybe if they are not really planning to sell it, they plan to return at some point in time?  So I wonder why they would be in the US if that rumor is true?  And temporarily at that?  Odd.

.
Third,
Klaas has reason to suspect that WW posted under a variety of nics and may personally be responsible for starting some of the early rumors.  Not sure if this Betty is one of them or not but seems she claimed quite a few things as facts very early on that were not and they became part of the internet lore and came to be taken as almost facts.  Like FBI reports of Natalee running away in Costa Rica when I think her parents said she had never been there or certainly did not run away ever.

This Betty on the front page sings much that song about Natalee being somewhere in hiding.

.

.

My eyes are closing so will call if a day and head for the Monkey Bunkey.  I do hope there are more statements for we have a very odd picture from these last two of a frame up of Kelpoes with their being the only ones to see the SG.  

Every little tiny piece of the puzzle is one more step toward finding out the truth of what happened to Natalee.  

Goodnight. . . will read tomorrow any additional comments.


.

Could Betty be WWs mom?  Or WW?

Yeah, I now remember some of the WW revelations of late...especially the one where she may have been the originator of the Costa Rican runaway rumor.  And, I do very much remember the early posts of defense of (mainly) Deepak, as she was doing so under the blanket of their alleged "mutual friend" now known as "Betty".  What was most disappointing to me was that I considered WW a "friend" of mine on these boards.  We often quarelled...mostly because of her defending the K2's (again, mainyl Deepak).  But, we emailed each other on a regular basis...mostly to say "Hello" and talk about things outside of this case (small talk mainly).  Funny how things evolve, eh  :roll:

Anna - the writing style of Betty doesn't look the same as WW.  I think it is the Betty who Deepak sent that email to and that Betty is not WW.  WW did post under other nicknames and she was the one who started the runaway rumor.

With that it's time for me to call it a night.  See you all tomorrow.

Let me help out.  there were 15 pages of houses, and they went from low to high, theirs was on the last page..

Hello Hotshot!!  Long time, no write...;)

Hey third how ya doing?

Doin' ok. Wish this thing would get resolved though... :roll:

I hear you there.  I am kind of waiting for the dutch to get there, and maybe make a difference.  You never know what they may come up with.  Lets get the show on the road already.

Yup!!  Bring in the Dutch...English...Hell, bring in a few Iraqis if it'll make a difference!  Just get the thing done already...DAMN!!  This family's been waiting long enough...

You got it!!  Well I think I am going to try to get to sleep now.  will see you tomorrow.

HELLO, YA'LL!!!!!!!!!!!  I've just read the last few posts here, and I've something to contribute:  I doubt that Wonderwoman is a real Republican.  I don't know where she is, but she probably isn't really out fund-raising for the Republican Party.  :D   I did not see her in Europe, either.   :D  (Which doesn't mean she wasn't there.)

I'll see ya'll the next time I have anything to contribute.   :lol:   Wishing everyone well!

And, where the hell is my tiara?!!  HA HA HA, Klaasend; just testing to see if any cussing, other than Southern cussing, is allowed around here.  But, seriously, somebody get security in case I have to pry it off nonesasha's head. :D

Anna, I've always liked you're sig quote, but now that you've added the cutest little Bijon (sp?), I couldn't help but tell you.

Diario
http://www.diarioaruba.com/
Amigoe
http://www.amigoe.com/english/
BonDia
http://www.cspnv.com/
Solo di Pueblo
http://www.solodipueblo.com/
Translator:
http://papiamentu.donamaro.nl

GMA message board.
http://forums.go.com/abcnews/GMA/forum?start=0&forumID=7

HAPPY BIRTHDAY
                                              IBE

                     Hope you have a great birthday

{{{ Darleen }}} And WW doesn't even know how to spell Darleen  :lol:

We were just talking about you this weekend. There's a whole passel of stuff you need to read. Statements made by J2K and others (although not all of the statements are included - yet). Klaas has been translating from Dutch for us; has practically learned to speak the language.
 

And then there's the Murder & Crime in Aruba thread (see my sig line). It's a must read. You might can help us figure out what to do with this.

And - How was your trip? I am pea green with envy ...

Avatars - There's something different about how to post them now, and I'm sorry I don't recall the instruction.

Ohhhh Ohhhh  another overdose, but thats all I can tell.
(http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h294/gummy_2006/overdose.jpg)

Good morning!

Just a reminder for anyone interested: CNN pipeline is replaying coverage of 911 in real time as it happened 5 years ago. It's free today from 8:30am - midnight. You can access it through the link on cnn.com.

Interesting.....curious....what's the truth about this man?

http://www.amigoe.com/english/

Chief of police Bonaire pleads for point of support coastguard

BONAIRE – Chief of police in Bonaire, Jan van der Straten, pleads for a point of support of the coastguard in Bonaire, same as the case in Curacao, Aruba, and St. Maarten.  He says that he has sufficient indications that the island is becoming an alternative for the import and export of drugs.

He didn’t want to say what the alternatives are, because he didn’t want to help the underworld to get more ideas.  “But I observe that there are a lot of drugs on the island.”  Van der Straten travels to the Netherlands next week to talk to the department of Home Affairs.  He expects to also talk about his plea for a coastguard support point on the island.  

When minister Johan Remkes (Home Affairs, VVD) visited the island last week, Van der Straten didn’t get a chance to mention this to him.  He considers a point of support with fast boats that can chase the go-fasts with drugs, firearms, and illegal persons to be essential.  “We cannot be emphasizing on just the controls at the airport, when we do not have sufficient control on other points of entrance of the drugs.”

A radar is going to be installed in Bonaire that can follow all suspicious movements, so a point of support is actually indispensable and possible, even though this depends on whether financing was arranged for this.  “But the minister himself has agreed to expand the border patrol.”

Van der Straten is of the opinion that the civil servants that are currently in charge of controlling the criminality and the borders must get more authority, because these are too limited now.  He didn’t want to say what these limitations are.  All he had to say was that “it is too bureaucratic.”

It won't let us go to this site.

I got in...Initially you get a message saying you are not allowed access but if you hit main page link then houses you can get in....

Good morning monkeys.  Good to see you all this a.m.

This is a sad day.  My prayers for all on this anniversary.  Everyone was affected in some way.  WE WILL NEVER FORGET

Hi Jac,

I did get to the site I just wasn't sure which house was the Gottenbos or how much it was selling for.

Good morning Monkeys...

yes, it is a very sad day.... I hope we don't forget just how horrible that day was... and that it strengthens the resolved to win the war against terrorism...

Mrs Red,

We will never forget!  Just like we also will never forget Natalee and her family.

Missin Nat

Good morning, all.  We were away for a few days at the shore, and I have some reading to catch up on here.  

Always remembering those lost on this date, several from our town and surrounding neighborhoods, as well as Natalee, who brought us together here.

Good Morning Everybody!!   :D

Happy Birthday IBE.  Today is also my sons 17th Birthday.

God Bless Everyone who lost loved ones and friends on this sad day that war was declared on this great Nation.  

God Bless America.  

God Bless the men and women who stand on the wall everyday for our freedom and to keep us safe.  Soldiers, Firefighters, all law enforcement officials, the men/women who hold elected offices, and our Allies.  The everyday citizen like you and I who keep our nose to the grindstone and keep watch over our neighbors.

We must not waiver.  We must not fail.

God Bless us all.

We will never forget...

God Bless the USA

GOODMORNING ALL!


Glenda is posting at RU some hate mail she is implying SHE received today.  She is also posting the headers of those emails.  In one of the emails she neglected to remove who the email was addressed to:

(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/klaasend/glendahatemail2.jpg)

So, does GLENDA/BONDIA/JULIA work for ATA?  Guess that answers alot of questions!  :wink:

By the way, these types of emails serve absolutely no purpose. I'm sure if they are traceable, the sender will be located.

I CAUGHT THAT...I was watching this morning. Veddddddyyyyyy intedessssssting, indeed.

:shock:  weird....my post got caught up into another...SORRY ALL.

I fixed it  :wink:

Cool....thanks  :wink: jeeeezeeeeeee.....lol

This woman is an idiot.

Hey Klaas-

Wanna share the content of the email?  :wink:

Not really, it's pretty rough, definately not PG-13 :wink:

oh shoot!

I don't read there, fear the cooties attacking me  :lol:

I'll email you  :lol:

Me either, not only that but I don't really care what lies they wish to spread today....  :lol:

I appreciate those who can... but I am just too squemish.... (sp??)

O/T

If I click on the Amazon site on the front page to order something, will SM get credit?

Glenda Glenda Glenda.......so HER email was addressed to ata huh?  Will wonders ever cease?  ppppfftttt don't get me started on dat woman.

Hello everyone!!  I hope everyone's hanging in there on such a difficult day for not just Americans, but to all mankind...

Much love and respect to you all!!

Just wanted to stop in to check on family.  What's the word?

It is nasty.....better off not seeing it.
(http://bestsmileys.com/scared/8.gif)

Listen, I have a question for those of you who seems to be the most knowledgable about this case.  And, that is...realistcally...is the investigation dead?  Are we to have any faith in Dutch to resolve it?  Or is this simply another case of "smoke & mirrors"??

O/T

I forgot to tell ya'll.  I had a wonderful afternoon Saturday!!  Finally got to meet SunnyinTX and Lisa.  Really cool ladies!

Good for you Snoop!  Was that your first time meeting someone in here?  I've yet to, but I've often wondered who has...

Anyone else?

Yes Snoopy, thank you for asking that!   I just got an email that my Larry garrison book will be arriving anyday now....

Per Glenda:

"September 11th -- what an odd day to send hatemail to Aruba"

Like that traitor really cares what day it is in America.

Did she care about the other days that Aruba ruled in favor of the murdering rapists like the Van der Sloots and Kalpoes.

Message to Julia don't worry about what day it is here in America we don't need your sympathy.  Make sure you stay on that POS island and celebrate with the rapists, murderers and druggies that you are so happy to defend.

Yep, San that just about says it all.....

and that is giving her alot of credit !

Yep!!  They both are very funny outgoing people.  Sunny is exactly the same person here as she is in person.  Too cool!!

Lisa is great too!!

Those 2 could prolly get into some trouble together!!   :lol:
Of course I'm the quiet shy one. 8)

I'm hoping you get to meet me soon too Snoop!  :D

Thank you mrs.  I need to go order Quickbooks Pro now.  TTYL

Hi everyone.. Sad day today is indeed. Klass I have managed to mess up the 911 thread. Maybe you can delete some of my posts..LOL  :)
  I have been working alot and reading up when I can.  THANKS!!!

When is it that you are coming to St. Louis?  I forgot :oops:

That will be great!!

Excellent post by Mortella on the front page yesterday:

According to Deepak and Satish, absolutely nothing happened and they should have arrived back at the HI in very short order, perhaps even close to the time of the returning MB students. All this could have happened in no time at all with the island being so small.

Speaking of leading the witness, again the injection of the Fisherman’s Huts by Jacobs. Are we pretty safe in assuming that Jacobs would therefore be a part of the “professional cover-up” as he seems adamant that the huts be involved regardless of what his witnesses are saying.

Prior knowledge of the woman being accosted there makes it a desirable place to have left Natalee where there is a known predator. Did ALE not have any kind of a stakeout to look for this known predator? Were there not extra beach patrols in place to see if they could apprehend this person? Would these patrols not have seen Joran and Natalee if they were in fact on the beach that night? Why did the men fishing just off shore not see them if in fact they were there as Joran finally picked up his cue to say?

Jacobs might as well say, “Are you sure you didn’t leave her at the fisherman’s huts because you know there is a prior incident of a woman being accosted there so you could blame the person who accosted her?” Oops! We don’t know if he said that or not and we certainly don’t know if he or Paulus best friend van der Straaten told that to Paulus but I would have to think that he did with that later becoming the preferred version by prime suspect Joran.

It certainly helps to have friends in high places to let you know where the best alibi can be found and to lead you in making statements and revisions to the story.

So what was Joran doing for the next two hours, Satish? And did he really have a computer complete with printer in his apartment and if so, what happened to it? Why did Anita insist there was only one and it was in the main residence? So many details to create when manufacturing a story from out of thin air. No way all three of you got it right the first time, huh?

What on earth is in this for you and your brother to lie for Joran like this? He will pin the entire thing on you two in a heartbeat. Better tell the truth and put the blame where it belongs before it is too late and you and Deepak end up taking the fall for the Dutchie.

Klaasend, do you think Glenda is one of the AHTA staffmembers?   Just a thought...not that it matters........

Hey girl!!  I been thinkin about you.  Thanks for everything you did on that day.

Bravo San!!  Bravo!!

Thanks for bringing that in Klaasend, it is one of the same things I think... about the reason the beach story evolved...

I don't know.  I actually doubt the hate mail was actually sent to Glenda as she is implying.  I think ATA probably gets alot of hate mail and they forwarded those to Glenda.  I'm sure Glenda/Julia does whatever ATA asks her to do.  :wink:

It will be toward the end of October.  :D

 Snoop Dawg!!  :)  I didnt do anything but pray with someonw aboard Flight 93. :(  Talk about feeling helpless.

Hi Strike ~ and good morning everyone...

Just walked in the door...  Been 5 years now...  and every year after the first, I think I'm fine with it now...  But every September 11th I still cry...  I went to Mass this morning to commerate this day, like I've done the past 5 years...  each year I think I'm not going to go...  yet each year I'm drawn...

I remembered your friend, SunFreak, and the cousin she lost 5 years ago on this day...  and remembered all who gave their lives...

Father Kevin's homily tied the Gospel of Jesus healing a man's withered hand on the Sabbath, and His active, agressive, ministry of making right what is wrong, in spite of the ire of the Scribes with things that we are seeing today...

He said some people think being a Christian should make us passive and accepting...  But, that he thinks that they are wrong in thinking this...  That there is plenty of evil in the world...  And that we are called to do what we can to right the wrong that we see...

It wasn't until I was driving home that I thought of Aruba...  And yeah, we're doing the right thing...  each doing what we can to bring about justice there...  And yeah, even without what happened to Natalee and her family ~ there's plenty of wrong going down there ~ and we're seeing  repercussions from that wrong being brought to light...

Strike ~ I don't know if we'll ever see justive from Aruba and Holland for those involved in Natalee's death and disappearance ~ but, I don't think it's time to give up now.  I have to believe that the things that we don't know about, the things going on behind the scenes, will bring them all to justice.  And I can't see giving up hope now.

Hi Katz.. I agree. no time to give up. I hope and pray a resolution to this case is coming near.

Hey Katz,
Yesterday's Church service was about September 11th here too...

Angie, I saw a 9-11 movie where they protrayed you... (and you had on a suit...)  but I knew it was you... God bless you for helping that man find the strength to do what had to be done....

and Strike, Yes I do think in my deepest of heart that there will be justice for Natalee...

KLASS.. THANK you. I see you are fixing my screw ups..lol  HUGS to you!
SAN gave me a quick crash course over the phone after I managed to mess up so bad.LOL  TY SAN!    TY Klassend!

Oh Ang...  how brain dead of me... to not add your name into my post...  yeah ~ I thought of you too...

Good morning sweetheart...

Man...I didn't know that Ang!  You were on the line with someone aboard that plane?  Must have been tough for you.  As many have expressed to you (i'm sure)...I wanted to also add my thanks for your efforts!  Seems we've all had some connection to 9/11...directly or otherwise...

Love to you!

K.  Sounds great!

  Ty Mrs Red.. my butt wanted nothing to do with media. Other were involved. I wanted out of it. Too freaking emotional for me.

 and I agree.  I feel there wil be justice for Natalee as well. may not be tonight or tomorrow.. but I do think that day will come!  and SOON!

Yeah Angie...  I know...  I know what you did that day...  and I thought of you a lot this morning...

Don't sell yourself short Angie.  I know you gave them  great comfort in their time of need, and gave them courage to do what needed to be done.

Let's Roll.

I left the duplicates.  Just fixed the ones that didn't show up the first time, lol.  No big deal!

Yeah, I agree with Snoop, Ang....  Thank you for all that you did...  thank you....

  Thanks KATZ and THANKS  Third!!  I wrote some of my story in the 911 thread that Justinsmama started.  Yes Third,, I took a call form a man on Flight 93. :( :( :( I can stil l.. hear that mans voice 5 years later.  I wasnt into the media hype then.. didnt want any parts of it. I did meet this mans wife.. she came into our center.. me and 2 others had the blessing to speak to her.  had to tell her her husbands last words. :( I was glad to be able to tel her he made sure he told me to tel his wife he loved her and asked me to recite the Lords prayer with him. I guess I had served my purpose.  Sorry.. this is Natalees thread.. dont mean to be OT..

BBL Ya'll.  Gotta get some work done.  :shock:

mrs.  I placed my order through Amazon from the front page.  Hope that helps.

Snoop, Klass, Katx  TY.. I am off today.. which I am glad!
Klass.. Im still learning..LOL   :) :)  ha ha!!

Damn, that's heavy Ang!  I have to get over to that thread and read.  I'm proud of you...;)

I thought they did a nice job of the movie.....

Thanks Snoopy...

I gotta run