Scared Monkeys Discussion Forum

 ::MonkeyCool:: ::MonkeyDance::

The website of Diario shows today's date, but the articles are 1 1/2 months old!

 ::MonkeyConfused::

Seems I remember this happening a while back when 'breaking news' or an important Nat story was about to be published. I forget when...but it was this year.

Let's pray that this is the thread that gives us some answers, and some resolution and peace to the Holloway family.

Due to past work experience, I still suspect that today's version was not put into production correctly and that's perhaps why all articles are not refreshed or changed.  I see articles with today's date, but Jossy's editorial was from August. 

Maybe Destiny will get some info. 

I think paul vd sloot will stop the publication of the story .
He also visit forums and RG and Julia in the rehab also .
He can go to the court and ask the judges (in a short-relief-Kort geding  ) for
a publication ban.
Or is Our Ben involved again ?  ::MonkeyConfused::
His friend Bob Wit ?  ::MonkeyConfused::

(http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh25/johan555/BenVockingkopie.jpg?t=1221494504)

LOL...it's Aruba, remember ?    ::MonkeyHaHa::

That is not Ben Vocking..that is a priest that has been mistaken for some time to be him.

oh really ? ::MonkeyHaHa::

O/T - I just started a thread for this.  There are people in Texas that need assistance per TES


There are 2 ten story buildings in Houston that are housing the elderly with no electrity, food or water. These buildings have people with  all types of medical problems so medical attention is also needed.

They have asked US to do what we can to help these people.  

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=3391.0

Yes, we went through this same scenario in Shango long time ago...give me a minute and I will the pull the info and post it here...if I can find it.  Mum is much better at this than me, but she's having internet problems today and can't get online.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=203.0

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub4/BenVocking.jpg)

The gentleman in the red sweater is a Dominican priest.  I can't find his name at this time.  He was mistaken often for Ben Vocking and even identified as Ben King by some people on Aruba that obviously did not know him at the time.  It was posted in the Aruban Who's Who incorrectly at one time...corrected by *******.

Snipped this from Mum's work on the index to Shango 3:



Lively Case Discussion #625 5/20-5/22/2007
« Reply #136 on: May 21, 2007, 10:15:28 AM »

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote from: "klaasend"
Posted by Also_Dutch at RU:

Also_Dutch Posted: Mon May 21, 2007 1:29 am   


Quote
Quote:

Wednesday June 15th 2005
Later I hear from my parents that they searched the house today. Suddenly a horde of police, plain clothes detectives and press stand in front of our door.

Ben King, a good friend of my father's is visiting us with his wife. We know him for 15 years and my mothers is best friends with his wife. I also attended middle school together with their eldest daughter. He took two weeks off from work to avoid work and private to mix up. He works as policy-assistant at the Openbaar Ministerie, but as a non-jurist he is working on completely different cases, than the Holloway case.

 

The above quote is taken from page 165 of Joran's book. This cleares the matter of Judges at the Van der Sloot residence. Ben King is a civil servant and not a lawyer, judge or (A)DA.

I think I don't ahve to explain further



So it seems Ben King took time off his Aruban government ministry job immediately after Natalee disappeared and his sole intent was to derail the case, and was staying at the Van der Sloot house.

It is obvious, Klaas. This was a cover-up assisted by the government.

One more thing. The judge refused to a full search of the Van der Sloot  house FOR A SECOND TIME when PAULUS WAS ARRESTED.

From: Peter.Schouten@endemol.nl
To: FoxHillDsn@aol.com
Sent: 2/23/2008 5:06:23 PM Eastern Standard Time
Subj: RE: ? For Peter De Vries..Sure he already has info on this


Thanks for your input. We will not follow this lead. Greetings. Peter


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: FoxHillDsn@aol.com [mailto:FoxHillDsn@aol.com]
Sent: Fri 2/22/2008 1:01 PM
To: Peter Schouten
Subject: ? For Peter De Vries..Sure he already has info on this


Re:  NATALEE HOLLOWAY CASE

What’s the connection between Jacobs and Vocking? Vocking has to be the one that instructed Jacobs to get rid of Joran’s initial interrogation. Vocking is the cover-up master since he changed the most crucial evidence seeking activity of the investigation. He got his friend judge to refrain ALE form accessing the main v/d Sloot house.

Vocking is the KEY to uncovering the police cover-up and the worst thing is that he and the role he played, seem to be forgotten by the prosecution authorities.


This is an email I sent to Peter Schouten...the producer for Peter DeVries show when the interviews hit the news.....there you can see the response for yourself.   Interesting.......

working again >>http://diario-aruba.com/

(http://diario-aruba.com/images/wbadvert/1.jpg)

Hi Monkeys!   ::MonkeyDance::

Lost electricity again yesterday at about 1:45pm...just now got to check in.  Internet is down at work also! ::MonkeyWaa::  I'm on my lunch break so I'm going to try to speed read and catch up.  I feel like I've been cut-off from the world.  Only good thing is the estimated time for power restoration was Friday the 19th at 8pm  ::MonkeyShocked::
I thought I was going to have a heart attack.  But thank goodness I'm back in business for now.  Hubby has been trying to find a generator all morning...he said for the refrigerator but I bet if he'd been able to find one the TV and satellite would have been hooked up to it for the Cowboys kickoff tonight.  ::MonkeyHaHa::

 Hopefully we won't have to worry about that now.

amigo's still showing the l3th too,  both papers are slow posting sometimes. 
dennisintn

(http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn82/texasmom_55/BenKing.jpg)

Pretty sure this is him at a Masonic Lodge gathering, IIRC a BBQ.   ::MonkeyWink::

(http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn82/texasmom_55/KingJVDS.jpg)
I've got the color one of this too, but this is the one I found first.

What is the litigation situation [ if any ] with Beth & Bram Moskovitz ?  Did Moskovitz file suit on Beth's behalf ?  Thanks.

any one know the religion of natalee....very important..

Her mother was Methodist (Loving Natalee book)
Natalee attended Mountain Brook Community Church which is non-denominational.

 Mi a hanja bo falta hopi Caps

Natalee was doing bible study at this church - it is non-denominational:

http://www.mbcc.us/

Mountain Brook Community Church is a non-denominational church in Birmingham, Alabama that exists to develop fully devoted followers of Jesus Christ.  We hope to do this by celebrating God's presence, demonstrating His love, educating His people for maturity, motivating His people for ministry, and penetrating His world.  Because this is our goal, everything we do as a church revolves around this core mission.

Who are we?

We are a community of Christians devoted to serving Christ and serving one another.  The Bible is our foundation and our source of authority.  We are marked by a commitment to:
- The Bible as our authority for faith and practice.
- Systematic and relevant teaching of God’s Word.
- Releasing lay people for ministry.
- Growth by conversion versus transfer.
- World evangelism and community impact.
- Cooperate with other churches and ministries that share our core values and beliefs.
- Exuberant, participatory, and relevant worship of God in Spirit and in Truth. 

 Tur cos ta bon cu bo?

We don't know

Ata bo sa con ta papia papiamento....

the streeetlights 

(http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh25/johan555/POND_5copy.jpg?t=1221498023)

(http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh25/johan555/pond_6copy.jpg?t=1221498120)

that sums it up...Perfect...we know where to look and we just need to confirm her religion...

Caps - Beth Holloway Twitty was Methodist

I have allowed myself to get very hopeful and excited again.
I think CAPS is really, really cool.

Thanks Klass !

this is an ichi question but all the stones are decorative and all has a meaning....what decorative design would they have used to decorate it.

Magnolia...I have always been hopeful but not excited lately until OUR MAN CAPS came along.....YOU BET HE'S COOL!   

    Mi ta pensa henter dia riba bo ,caps  ::MonkeyHaHa::

I don't know, searching now

A simple Christian cross with maybe perhaps IHS on it.

To decorate what please?...

Capslock - not sure where you're going with this but I did a google search of Methodist Gravestone:

http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&rls=com.microsoft:en-us&resnum=1&q=methodist%20gravestone&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi

Cross and flame, I thought.

I think a simple cross or a lily.  My first thought was the lily.

I just need to have a second guess...but knowing the place....check these out and mostly are from alabama....vrijmetselaarij....Het grootste oosten....

http://magnolia.cyriv.com/DynamicTree/Cemetery/Search/DocLst.asp?FK=10&OB=1

it is written down....Shango...

vrijmetselaarij >>you mean the lions club ?

Hey TM...Glad You got the electricity back.....I knew that was probably the problem when You weren't on the forum.....My Sons live near Houston and it may be up to 3 weeks before their power is back on.....One good thing about it is that My Grandson is here with Me until it comes back on......Its Great having Him here  He is so Precious.....  ::MonkeyWink:: 

In Hoc Signos  [ Vinces ]:

http://www.cokesbury.com/forms/ProductDetail.aspx?pid=324373

Wrong type domination....it has to blend whith the surroundings.

(http://www.cresourcei.org/images/chrismons/chrismon38_small.jpg)

The Cross represents Christ and the flame is a reminder of Pentecost when diverse witnesses were unified by the power of the Holy Spirit. The Cross and Flame is the official symbol of the United Methodist Church.

Klaassend, here it is always Cross and Flame, look at phonebook.

            Thank you Pita!!!!

You're welcome!   ::MonkeyWink::

What about a Fluere de Lis Cross?....combination of cross and lily.
Spear like ends on the cross.

Johan....Work your way around this site...

http://www.stelling.nl/vrijmetselarij/ovoregel.html

research it...the top master is here...

I grew up in the Methodist church and have been Episcopalian since 1956.  I have always seen the cross in both curches with IHS inscribed on the [ brass ] cross.

Perhaps the flame insignia has been added at a later date, but IHS stands for Christ, in both Greek and Latin.

See:  http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_does_IHS_on_a_Christian_cross_mean

oeps this caps :   een web van regelgeving, die de Orde ook liever intern wil houden

That is the French version of the Christian cross, ie: Roman Catholic.  As in New Orleans' insignia as New Orleans was founded by the Roman Catholic French.

John Wesley was an Anglican priest sent to Savannah to found an Anglican church.  He dies an Anglican priest.  It wasn't until after his death, did his followers begin to break away from the Anglican church and found the Methodist denomination.  The Episcopalian [ Anglican ] and Methodist churches are very much the same in doctrine.  The Methodist Church does not use the Book of Common Prayer, as do the Episcopalians.

http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.vrijmetselarij.nl%2FOrganisatie%2Ftabid%2F59%2FDefault.aspx&sl=nl&tl=en&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

http://www.vrijmetselarij.nl/Organisatie/tabid/59/Default.aspx

dan bestudeert maar...en zie voor je zelf dat van hier breiden ze uit in 2 secties op Aruba...allemaal weken in de wetgeven sectie....

But we are talking about an island that is predominately Catholic.
They would not know from Methodist crosses or symbols.

Caps do you think that there is a loge on Aruba ?  or a Grootloge ?

vrijmetselarij loge ?

I would be very surprised if her body was laid to rest with an ounce of respect...
As gruesome as it sounds, I feel her body was disrespected like a sack of potatoes...

ja ja dat zag ik het is een soort apparte sekte en hebben zelfs banden met de maffia

Johann- maybe Lodge El Sol Naciente

Free Mason Lodges in Aruba....

 

Aruba

Lodge King Solomon (Grand East of the Netherlands)

http://www.ksl-aruba.com/

Lodge El Sol Naciente (Grand East of the Netherlands)

http://www.vrijmetselarij.nl/el_sol_naciente/

http://www.freemasonry.fm/By-Countries.html

sttt pita  ::MonkeyHaHa::

http://www.mementomori.com/

(http://www.mementomori.com/membottom.gif)

who is Chris Gideon  ?  Ponchatoula Louisiana USA

de groote ooste splits in 2 in aruba , the sol naciente and the king salomon.

both are in aruba. but the key question is who control them and who give them orders...

Directors provincial grootloge
Provinciaal Grootmeester Provincial Grandmaster  Th.A.Beaujon  ?
 prov-grootmr.carib-gebied@vrijmetselarij.nl prov-grootmr.carib area @ vrijmetselarij.nl 
Gedeputeerd.Provinciaal Grootmeester Gedeputeerd.Provinciaal Grandmaster  KAArndell 
 plvprov-grootmr.carib-gebied@vrijmetselarij.nl plvprov-grootmr.carib area @ vrijmetselarij.nl 
1e Provinciaal Grootopziener 1st Provincial Grootopziener  DEPanneflek 
 
2e Provinciaal Grootopziener 2nd Provincial Grootopziener  HATh.Cruden 
 2eprov-grootopz.carib-gebied@vrijmetselarij.nl 2eprov-grootopz.carib area @ vrijmetselarij.nl 
Provinciaal Grootredenaar Provincial Grootredenaar  DJvan Bekkum DJvan Bekkum 
 prov-grootred.carib-gebied@vrijmetselarij.nl prov-grootred.carib area @ vrijmetselarij.nl 
Provinciaal Grootsecretaris Provincial Grootsecretaris  H.Schotte H. Schotte 
 prov-grootsecr.carib-gebied@vrijmetselarij.nl prov-grootsecr.carib area @ vrijmetselarij.nl 
Provinciaal Grootthesaurier Provincial Grootthesaurier  HAParisius 
 prov-grootthes.caribisch-gebied@vrijmetselarij.nl prov-grootthes.caribisch area @ vrijmetselarij.nl 
Provinciaal Grootdekker Provincial Grootdekker  R.Th.Branding 
 
Provinciaal Grootceremoniemeester Provincial Grootceremoniemeester  HGGenaro 
 prov-grootceremmr.carib-gebied@vrijmetselarij.nl prov-grootceremmr.carib area @ vrijmetselarij.nl 

So the article part 2 did not run today?

Hello brothers,My name is Chris Gideon,a brother mason from Louisiana.I am a former law enforcement detective who specializes in missing persons cases including land and water search and recovery.I am considering coming to Aruba to volunteer on a non bias basis and not interfere with local police.I am not seeking any publicity,I just want to help.
I am writing first to compliment your site.It is the kinda of sight that makes me even more proud to be a member of the fraternity.Secondly,I am asking for a brother mason to contact me before I go any futher so that I can ask a few questions.
Thanks again in advance my brothers.My email is chrisgideon@charterinternet.com
Please email me with a phone number and the best time to call.

23-6-2005
Hello brothers,

My name is Chris Gideon,a brother mason from Louisiana.I am a former law enforcement detective who specializes in missing persons cases including land and water search and recovery.I am considering coming to Aruba to volunteer on a non bias basis and not interfere with local police.I am not seeking any publicity,I just want to help.
I am writing first to compliment your site.It is the kinda of sight that makes me even more proud to be a member of the fraternity.Secondly,I am asking for a brother mason to contact me before I go any futher so that I can ask a few questions.
Thanks again in advance my brothers.My email is chrisgideon@charterinternet.com
Please email me with a phone number and the best time to call.

vrijmetselarij =  fraternity

Caps, I would think this order controls Aruba.....

Orde van Vrijmetselaren onder het Grootoosten der Nederlanden
 

The largest masonic order in the Netherlands is the Order of Freemasons under the Grand Orient of the Netherlands. Under this order work 165 lodges. Besides the 148 lodges in the Netherlands, there are lodges in the Netherlands Antilles (3), Aruba (2), Surinam (3), South Africa (1) and Zimbabwe (7). The number of members was on january 1st 2003 6,241. 5,669 of them have joined Dutch lodges.


http://www.stichtingargus.nl/vrijmetselarij/ovo_en.html

this is a worldwide network

Was it Wonder Woman or that Miz something that got so upset
when the Masonic Lodge was mentioned early on?

Yes, and there are 165 lodges that work under them, including Aruba.

Even all the secret rituals of Freemasonry are now on the Internet.

Zelfs alle geheime rituelen van de Vrijmetselarij staan tegenwoordig op het internet.

binnen de muren van het gebouw eigenlijk vrijwel alles kan, veel meer dan in de maatschappij.

Behind the walls of their building is everything  allowed, more than in the normal world (society)

http://www.vrijmetselarij.net/el_sol_naciente/index1.htm#history

Freemasonry in Aruba

Freemasonry came to the Island of Aruba with the discovery of gold in the beginning of the 20th century.
Today Aruba has 3 regular Lodges. Lodge "El Sol Naciente" # 113, Lodge "King Solomon" # 160, both chartered under the Gr.: E.: of the Netherlands and Lodge "Hiram" # 102 chartered under the Gr.: L.: of Venezuela

THE HISTORY OF:
LODGE EL SOL NACIENTE No. 113

The turn of the century was an important era for freemasonry in Aruba.
During this Period, 1900, the Gold Mining Co. was still very active and in the hands of English engineering supervision.
Due to this fact, many English Masons were stationed on the island which led to the founding of a so-called "Masonic Club". However, this did not progress much further.
In 1911 there was already a group of Arubans who had become members of "Igualdad Lodge No 653"in Curacao. They took over the Masonic Club in 1912,.
This group attempted to acquire a charter from the Grand Lodge of England through the aid of their mother Lodge Igualdad.
These members were, Bro.: Cornelis Hendrik Eman, Harmen Jan Schreuder, Horacio Irausquin Lampe, Leonardo Macabeus Henriquez and Jan Hendrik Albert Eman.
The name given to the Masonic Club was: El Sol Naciente.
It happened that the request for the charter was not granted. The Grand Lodge of England ruled that since there was no District Grand Lodge in the area to exercise supervision, the request was not entertained.
This group however' was rather persistent.
Once more a petition was filed with the Grand Lodge of England where upon this Grand Lodge decided to refer the matter to the Grand East of the Netherlands.
The result was that to obtain the requested charter for Aruba, seven of the members of "Igualdad Lodge" residing in Aruba had to travel by schooner to Curacao to get their membership from the "Lodge de Vergenoeging".
On August 13, 1920 the following Breth:. traveled to Curacao for this purpose; Bro.: L.J.M. Henriquez, H.J. Schreuder, H. Yrausquin Lampe, H.L. Scholten, C.H. Eman, S.A.A. Henriquez and J.G. Veeris.
Three months later, on November 15, 1920 the Grand Loge of Holland granted the charter to El Sol Naciente.
The Lodge was installed by Br.: Quast, Lt. Gov. of Aruba, who was appointed by Bo.: delegate Winkel who was unable to be present. The W.:M.:, after thanking Br.: Quast and the installation committee, talked about there goal first being reached after twelve years of hard work as a "Masonic Club".
According to the register of members, the following were the first candidates to be initiated: Edgar Raul Henriquez, and Idelgo Iden Frigerio, on June 24, 1922, and August Bernhart Kuiperi, on December 25 1924.
During these early years "El Sol Naciente" operated in the Spanish language with rituals received from "Lodge Igualdad" which at that time also operated in Spanish.
In 1927 the Pan Am Oil Co. LTD. started operations on the east side of the island under the name of "Lago Oil & Transport Co. Ltd".
This brought with it a new swing to freemasonry in Aruba.
The American Masons who came to the island as employees of the Pan Am requested affiliation with "El Sol Naciente".
They being the overwhelming majority and not able to speak Spanish, obtained English rituals from the Grand Lodges in the USA.
It was not until later years, after the end of World War 2, that Dutch translated rituals were introduced.
During the twenties "El Sol Naciente" labored in a small building in the "Wilhelminastraat", east of the old Protestant Church.
In the latter part of the twenties our lodge moved to the wooden two stories building in the "Klipstraat". This building was demolished not long ago.
The lodge operated on the upper floor while the ground floor was rented to the Government as Post Office.
On January 6, 1941 the Lodge had to resume its activities in the Lago Community School, however, under blackout conditions because of the World War II.
All the attributes and paraphernalia had to be brought from Oranjestad in the evening. The cars had to drive with a one-inch square portion of the headlights visible. The remainder of the headlamp was painted blue.
After Lodge meeting all was dismantled again and taken back to Oranjestad.
On April 30, 1941 the W.: M.: announced that he resieved word that the Gr.: M.: of Holland died in a concentration camp in Germany and that all Lodges should be in mourning.

During this war the Germans raided all lodge buildings in Holland, took possession of name lists, picked up all the members and sent them to concentration camps.
Many masons went into hiding.
On July 6, 1944 proposals for a location for the new Lodge building were discussed.
On January 17, 1946 a tentative date was set for laying the cornerstone for the building in "Longfellowstraat".
During this period El Sol Naciente had Approx. 167 members.
October 31, 1946, The new Lodgebuilding at "Longfellowstraat" was consecrated.
Altogether there were 47 members and 48 visitors present.
A total of 200 invitations were sent out.
The visitors came from the U.S.A., Curacao, London, Scotland, Trinidad, Peru, Ireland, British Guyana, Hawaii and South Africa.
The records of 1962-1963 show that from the 167 members in 1946,membership dropped to 134.
This was the beginning of the exodus of the Americans, when lago started with the tremendous lay-off program.
By July 1968 our lodge remained with only 26 members of which 8 attended meetings. All three Lodges on the island were experiencing the same situation.
During extraordinary meetings, members of our sister Lodge and the visiting Lodge had to fill in some of the stations in order to perform ceremonies.
During this same period, on July 4, 1968 a motion was presented and carried to sell the building in the Longfellowstraat.
Our Lodge worked during this period in the building of our sister Lodge "King Salomon" in Savaneta
During this meeting we were informed that we finally got the key of the building in J.G. Emanstraat 39 and that the building would be vacant within 10 days.
On September 3, 1975 the covering of the top floor started.
On February 14, 1976 was set to move our paraphernalia from the old building to the new one. Our first meeting was held in the new building in the banquet hall on March 17, 1976.
By now El Sol Naciente has 80 members and is located in a new building at cumana 26.
The remainder of the years not mentioned in this resume, It will be the task of the younger breth:.
To see to it that all records are maintained in perfect order and to update this report for posterity.

Note: This is a compilation of the history given in a lecture by W.: Br.: Jacky Beaujon(PM)†Past Masters

58.
W.: M.: Stephen  Daal  6006-6007
57.
 Karel Wever 6004-06  56.
 Marrug G.
 6002-04
55
 Bowen, S.
 6000-02
 
 
 
 

CAPS, are you thinking they would actually mark her grave with a symbol from her Church????  If so, do you have pictures of those graves, maybe we could pick it out for you.

So the thinking is that they put her in her OWN crypt??? That would mean  complicity by a whole organization  -- I highly doubt it! JMO

Magnolia - the Freemasons are a branch of the original Knights Templar.  I am a direct descendant of Sir William St. Clair of Roslyn, Scotland, who was the founder of the Masonic order.  All of my grandfathers and great grandfathers going way back were very high degree Masons.  I am not at all upset by what is happening.  If those jerks on Aruba are Masons and they buried Natalee in the Masonic Cemetery, then we need to go in there and get her out.  If they were following the true Masonic codes on Aruba, Natalee would still be alive and we wouldn't have a need to be looking for her in their cemetery.

I was a Rainbow Girl myself.  My favorite cousin just died and had a Masonic
Funeral complete with Masonic Rites.
One cannot judge normal people by what transpires on Aruba.

I am sneaking a peek at work but just wanted to confirm Magnolia's memory... SOMEONE went ballistic whenever this topic came up... I am thinking it was not Wonder Woman.. but the crazy gal from the south (US) who's avatar was of a little stick figure of a woman with a purse and she argued with Bondia alot.  She always threatened to leave and then she'd always come back and beetch some more.  God I can't remember her name.  Klaas and crew will remember based on my description I bet.  LOL

http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=B9GAZxTLyNQ

I wish CAPS would come back.  I wonder if they buried her in someone else's crypt but actually put a little marker of her Church on the crypt as well.  I wish we could see pictures....

Hey Frijole....was it Macramae?

That's true....also, the Roman Catholic cross always has the crucifix.   CAPS was asking what religion Natalee was.

Darleen of Alabama?  Stick figure with a purse and a crown.

I agree.....but suppose they hid her within a cemetery which had certain symbols...I think that's what CAPS might be getting at, or something like that.  It sounds like CAPS is trying to identify her particular spot ?  I dunno....am confused.        LOL.   ::MonkeyConfused::

My grandfather was a 32nd degree Knights Templar and I agree, Natalee would still be alive.  So many fine and famous people throughout History have been Masons,  Geo. Washington, George S. Patton,  Douglas Mac Arthur, etc. etc. etc.

Most people don't realize that many of our founding fathers were Masons - George Washington, Benjamin Franklin, etc.  The back of our one dollar bill has a pyramid and an eye.  These are Masonic symbols.

I concur. 

Maybe so...it's been so long.   I had angst at first, as the Masons are wonderful.

 Very true....

Some people think that Masons is a cult.....hubby and his uncles are Masons...I don't think the "normal" mason is a cult...

CAPS are you saying NH was buried with another person but maybe they put her Church symbol as well on the tomb????  Do you have a picture??   Some of the more modern Churchs here use a modern flame with a dot in it////

You're right...It's not a cult~!

Y'all,  I gotta go run to the bank - don't post 'til I get back!  LOL.    ::MonkeyCool::

DarleenofAlabama  - yep, she's the one  ::MonkeyHaHa::

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub4/darleenblue.jpg)

Nope, she was from Bama and she was the one that always talked about her husband getting her a set of pearls.

Ok, let's not get into this Mason's/Freemason's are good/are bad discussion again.

It has nothing to do with the Mason's in general and everything to do with Aruba and a corrupt few.

WE HAVE A WINNER!

caps > http://www.wereldgeheimen.nl/vrijmetselarij.htm

  an occult and mysterious organization

"Those who are admitted as a member of Loge need good and honest men, vrijgeborenen and mature and discreet age, no serfs, no women, no offensive or immoral men, but of good name".
an occult and mysterious organization that strives to be a secret to influence political events, on society, the civil authority.

http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kanaal-13.nl%2Fmystery-zone%2Fde-verborgen-geschiedenis%2Fde-moord-op-gods-bankier.html&hl=nl&ie=UTF-8&sl=nl&tl=en

Right...that's why I said "normal" masons...

I think that the ones that have their hands on Joran are in Thailand...they have a sect there.

How do they have their hands on Joran there?..

 do you think they protect him there caps ?

Caps the symbol on the grave is a lamb.  Shango - Mary/Lamb

caps dit is over rituele moorden en vrijmetselarij

http://www.gebladerte.nl/20065g21.htm

http://www.thaifreemason.com/thailodges.htm

shango god of thunder and lightning

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shango

The Masons are not a sect and they are not a cult.  They are a fraternal organization.  Part of the group are the Shriners who build hospitals for children.  The Masons are civic and community oriented.  Just like any organization, I am quite sure that there are bad apples in the group.  The Boy Scouts have some problem people, but that doesn't mean that the organization is bad.  Obviously there are some low-lifes in the Aruban Masons.  There are no women in the Masons.  The women belong to a group called the Eastern Star.  The Freemasons do not rape and abuse children as Johan's article states.

Johan - I read your article.  Those people might call themselves Freemasons, but that is not what the Freemasons are about.

LOL, We wont go there.  I got kicked off because of bringing it up.  Hope things will stay on the up and up with Caps, and not let the same thing happen to him.  Lets let him do the work, and see where it gets us.  I understand there are Masons here, and the like.  We have to remember, not all are bad, not all are good.  The Masons can go very deep, it all depends on what the situation is.  Remeber too, we are talking Aruba.  

Caps - is Natalee in her own crypt or is she sharing one with someone else? The Grand Master for Aruba in 2005 was Karel Wever.  Is this connected to Jalitza Wever who was buried on June 6th?  Is Natalee in a Wever crypt?  Is this why the Wever and Oduber headstones were damaged in the other cemetery?  Was it retaliation by someone who knew what had happened?

I just thought of something.  If I recall, the Sloots are Roman Catholic.  Historically, Roman Catholics are not part of the Masons, although I understand that this is changing.  About 900 years ago, one of the Popes ordered the death of all Knights Templars in France.  For centuries, there was animosity between the two groups.  If Urine is Catholic, those protecting him might not be the Masons.

yep...a brother in trouble...is a mason sorrow.

ss it is very simple there are good Freemasons and bad Freemasons ::MonkeyHaHa::
i think we are talking about the bad Freemasons
some Freemasons are related to the mafia etc .

Loge Erasmus, No. 297 -- (English speaking) Founded in 2006, Loge Erasmus is a Dutch lodge working continental Masonry in English.
www.thaifreemason.com/thailodges.htm  (http://www.thaifreemason.com/thailodges.htm)

caps do you think Shango is a Freemasons ?

Correct. My avatar is there to confirm

I asked the same thing the other day.  CAPS didn't respond.....perhaps he doesn't know the answer.  It was a question discussed back when the crypts were vandalized, here at SM.

i think the freemasons are the higer power on Aruba

Translated:

On St.Eustasius already existed from 1755, a Dutch lodge under the name 'La Parfaite Union. "

In 1757 followed the creation of the "Loge St. Peter and St. John the Evangelist" on the same island. In 1757 it was on Curacao Loge "The Friendship". In 1777, the Dutch Grand Groomeester a National Executive to appoint, since on the various islands of the Dutch Antilles were already 10 Loges, however, different Constitution. The Netherlands had then only 23 Loges. At the same time, there was also a Deputy Provincial Grandmaster British constitution drawn to the Windward Islands.

Currently there are six lounges in this area working under the Grand Orient of the Netherlands. Three in Curacao, one in St.Martin, both falling within provincale grootloge for the Caribbean, and two lounges in Aruba.
Directors provincial grootloge

Provincial Grandmaster

Th.A.Beaujon
 

prov-grootmr.carib area @ vrijmetselarij.nl
Gedeputeerd.Provinciaal Grandmaster

K. A. Arndell
 

plvprov-grootmr.carib area @ vrijmetselarij.nl
1st Provincial Grootopziener

D. E. Panneflek

2nd Provincial Grootopziener

H.A.Th.Cruden
 

2eprov-grootopz.carib area @ vrijmetselarij.nl
Provincial Grootredenaar

D.J.van Bekkum
 

prov-grootred.carib area @ vrijmetselarij.nl
Provincial Grootsecretaris

H. Schotte
 

prov-grootsecr.carib area @ vrijmetselarij.nl
Provincial Grootthesaurier

H. A. Parisius
 

prov-grootthes.caribisch area @ vrijmetselarij.nl
Provincial Grootdekker

R.Th.Branding

Provincial Grootceremoniemeester

H. G. Genaro
 

prov-grootceremmr.carib area @ vrijmetselarij.nl

 
Under these grootloge resorteren four loges:

 

 
The Vergenoeging nr.22

Willemstad Curacao

P. O. Box 3417
Email: @ secretaris.loge022 vrijmetselarij.nl
Dutch
 
http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.vrijmetselarij.nl%2FOrganisatie%2Ftabid%2F59%2FDefault.aspx&sl=nl&tl=en&hl=en&ie=UTF-8
      

Caps - are DTKM and Voking Masons?

e war

A singing war will be a lost war.....can answer now...carefull here....to much info is bad for the war

You are probably right. Are they also the Babylonians?

They all belong to this order of Law Making and yes they are.

yes be carefull caps

there are 16 Guests  ::MonkeyHaHa::

If we aren't careful we are going to get booted into the Shango thread. LOL  There are those that think Shango has nothing to do with what happened to Natalee.  ::MonkeyWink::

The Masonic groups, worldwide, have very, very deep pockets.  Lots of money.

Freemasons

Its Roots & Links to the Occult
When Masons first join a lodge, they worship G.A.O.T.U, which they are told is the god of their own religion. When they have progressed, they are told that G.A.O.T.U. stands for the Grand Architect of the Universe. Then they search for the true name of God, which they are told was lost. In the process, they are taught that the God of the Bible is the same as the old pagan gods:
“The masonic doctrine of the unity of God teaches that: (1) The names of the different nature gods (Brahma, Baal, Om, On, Dagon, Osiris, Allah, Molech, and Shango), along with Jehovah, all denote the generative (reproductive) principle in nature. (2) All religions are essentially the same in their ideas of the divine. (3) It is for this express purpose that the simple Mason is instructed to look upon every man’s religion as his own.” (C. F. McQuaig and James D. Shaw, “The Masonic Report,” page

You're right....the Masons historically are Protestant only.

nono
Not only is Freemasonry a religion, its highest authorities claim that it is superior to Christianity. Freemasonry is considered to be the highest and purest form of religion

In other words :   "Loose lips sink ships."

I was raised Catholic and my father always warned me to stay away from the Masonic Temple and any Masons.  He claimed it wasn't safe and they hated Catholics.   :smt102

I'm not sure how "catholic" the Sloots were/are.  Paulus quoted existentialism and Anita was into Buddhism.

O/T
Please send this to TV and Radio stations:

There are 2 ten story buildings in Houston that are housing the elderly with no electrity, food or water. These buildings have people with  all types of medical problems so medical attention is also needed.

They have asked US to do what we can to help these people.  

Contact TES:


http://www.texasequusearch.org/

Texas EquuSearch Office

4013 FM 517, Suite B Dickinson, Texas 77539
P. O. Box 395, Dickinson, Texas 77539

Office: (281) 309-9500
Fax : (281) 534-6719
Toll Free: (877) 270-9500

nothing ? huh ?

I will say yes or was part of the organiszation and probably still is but wrote it for the world to solve. he can not talk but wrote it in a way that we have to puzzel it out.

or knew alot about the organization, to the point where he knew we could follow shango with free masonry

That's the animosity that lasted for centuries.  After the Crusades, the Knights Templar started the first banking system in Europe.  They were a tremendously wealthy group.  Some feel that a lot of the gold, etc. was brought back from the Temples in Jerusalem when they returned from the Crusades.  The Templars and the Pope got into a power struggle.  Most of the Templars were living in France, and the Pope ordered all of them killed on the same day. If I recall it was a Friday the 13th which started that superstition.  Those who managed to survive headed for Scotland which is where the Masons were started in Roslyn.  Some of this was brought out in the DaVinci Code book.

 Yes he mislead those who it deserve

This is the crypt of Sir William St. Clair (Sinclair) at Roslyn Chapel in Roslyn, Scotland.  He is my 16th great grandfather and the founder of the Freemasons.  He was a Knights Templar.

I don't believe that Masons think their religion is higher than God's....if that's what you are saying....

Does anyone know if Beth's father or Dave Holloway are Masons?  If so, this could have been the motivation for the higher powers in Aruba to bury Natalee in a Masonic Cemetery.

Is there any proof at all to this "Natalee being buried in a Masonic Cemetary?...please post it if there is....

You're kidding right?

I guess I am..."loose lips sink ships"...right?

The speculation comes from good sources.  We have 15 "guests".

I see....   ::MonkeyConfused::

Here is a terrific site regarding all aspects of Freemasonry:

http://www.freemasons-freemasonry.com/mackeyfr.html

My grandfather was in the Scottish Rite :

From Masonic funerals the line that I always remember is:

"And the melancholy truth is the moment we are born we begin to die."

I love the melancholy truth part.

I know...

As far as the official religious affiliations of the parents Sloot,  that's always been a mystery to me.   There certainly is an apparent lack of morals which seems to permeate their lives, in my opinion, so  either they have cast aside any early Christian childhood training, [ if there was any], or they are just basically opportunistic pragmatic heathens. 

 ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyHaHa::

That is fantsatic, SS.  I applaud your love of History and of family legacy. [ I am a fellow Scot. ]   That is a treasure.

 ::MonkeyLaugh::

Bless her heart  ::MonkeyDance::

The Knights Templars were tortured and killed in France on Friday, October 13, 1307 by King Philip IV and Pope Boniface VIII.

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub4/dancingmonkeyff81tiara.gif)

Now THAT is funny. ::MonkeyEek:: ::MonkeyConfused:: ::MonkeyHaHa::
She drove me BONKERS.

At this point, I'm a little watered down.  My father's paternal side were the Scots.  I'm only about 25%.

Been cruising around back on some old info...

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 5:51 pm
Remember when they were pumping the pond by the Marriott? That is what they need to do in Montaña Noord.

AllyinMiami Says: June 27th, 2005 at 12:38 pm
From Montana to Moko there is not much to walk.

A little off topic, but may lighten the load a bit...

Started reading Shango thread...which led me to google something...which led me to a RWV page, from very on the case...Neat to read stuff from way back when. Given the knowledge gained over the past few years, some statements/info stood out...

...Most likely scenario is she overdosed (unknowingly) and Joran is taking the fall for the drug supplier/rave host.

...For some reason, I believe in a few years time, Joran will become a drug addict (due to the psychological pressures). We might read a blip about him dying tragicly or committing suicide somewhere. (Posted by: Dead | Friday, July 01, 2005 at 03:05 PM)

...17 year old boy in prison for almost 2 months. That is a lifetime for someone his age. He would talk if he were not SCARED to talk.
...I think the boat that was seized had to do with an email address in Deepak's pocket when he was arrested. (Posted by: letsbefair | Saturday, July 30, 2005 at 06:10 PM)

...I think Shango was trying to say that he was sending up smoke signals. And that the other posters were the "strong wind". Arawaks were the original Indian tribe on Aruba - I found that out - Google...(Posted by: letsbefair | Saturday, July 30, 2005 at 06:21 PM)

... There may also prove to be some sexual assault issues covered up with pay-offs in the past of at least one individual ultimately connected to this case, or any subsequent cover up. But I am not hearing that directly about GVC, only a possible video angle involving him, possibly video with what someone called "shocking" scenes.

...It's possible that the time line as presented by the elder vd Sloot does not fit with other knowable facts in the case.

...My mind goes to the possibility of vomiting as a result of fluids found in the car that were not blood and have now fallen into the black hole of information represented by the Dutch justice system - which I am not judging here, by the way. So, what starts out as either playful partying, or the crime of drugging to take advantage turns into, in effect, a murder.

...If the boys washed their hands of this at this time - say by driving back toward town and making an arrangement with another party to dispose of the body - it could explain why they are not "breaking." They might actually not have been in the loop as far as a potential concealing of the body goes. It would be a sequence of events difficult to follow through the establishment of evidence, or interrogation.
...Remember when there was a confession and Natalee was said to be dead? The authorities might have known what happened up to here, but as they could not complete the second part of the puzzle, what happened to Natalee, there would be good reason for them not wanting that, or anything disclosed. Keep in mind, if that were the case, any defendant might walk at trial, hurting Aruba's image even more.

But in a previous statement, we also know that Deputy Police Chief Jan Van der Straten said this: "there is additional evidence beyond statements from the three teenagers that implicates John and Jones, but he would not elaborate."

What evidence? More importantly, what happened to it? Or was the media simply lied to?

Thursday, June 16, 2005 at 02:18 AM (RWV)

CAPS I'm sorry if I aked questions that would put you in jeopardy.  I always think of the monkeys being friendly, I forget about the outsiders.  Sorry, stay safe!!!

It was said at one time that items belonging of the MB students were found in
Jones and Johns possession.  That was not true according to the students.

Deputy Police Chief Jan Van der Straten...Just pointing out that it was clear as day who ran the show, from an investigative standpoint...Good 'ole Jan(Godfather of Joran, BFF of Paulus)

They were trying to frame the security guards...No doubt abiut it...

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:58 pm
Halls of the house of babylon may suddenly twist to accomodate cowboys walking in the maze...Better twisted hallways than fallen houses.


Corrupt officials would rather look corrupt to the world than to reveal their most sacred secret(of the island)...some type of money making illegal activity.

Remember not all has the wisdom to what is gained from this scandal.....e.g. the famous aruba FBI man, know it all, is in deep financial trouble....can not pay his worker but he is still dreaming that the candi man will continue to support him.

He got paid to shut up and then went to holland and then to return working for him self as a security specialist that seems to know all about terrorism an look at him today.....almost in chapter 11. and Now he wants his old job back.

LOL....

Just dropping in to say hello.... I have been out here..just been to busy to post..
I hope all is well with everyone.. and although I have not been here to chat.. I have been here in spirit...

Klaas.... I am off for the night.. Will be back soon.. Let Angie know I said hello and anyone else out here...
I shall return....
Miss you all... but our goal has never changed...
Lnichols....
Prayers for Natalee

Dompig?   ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyHaHa::

Lnichols - good to see you!  Angie just dropped by yesterday for a bit.  I'll tell her you said hi to her and everyone. 

Great to see all of you.. I will be back... promise... take care..

Testigo clave mustrando loke a pasa 4:05 a.m. pabao di Monserat!.....Tanto Paulus y Joran van der Sloot buscando "algo" banda di caminda
DIARIO:  TUESDAY, 16 SEPTEMBER 2008 00:00 LOCAL
http://tinyurl.com/5urlp5 (http://tinyurl.com/5urlp5)
ORANJESTAD (AAN): Siman pasa, DIARIO a bin cu e informe relaciona cu un testigo clave, cu na final di 2007 a dicidi na bin dilanti pa asina revela tur loke el a mira na Mei 2005 na su cas, cu ta keda den area pabao di Veld di Nacional, cerca di Dam di Monserat.E testigo clave sinembargo tabatin miedo di revela tur cos cerca Polis y Fiscal di Aruba, pasobra den pueblo tabatin e pensamento cu nepotismo den Ministerio Publico ta bibo y creciendo.El a duna declaracion na Ministerio Publico si, pero te na cierto punto. Algo importante el a laga atras, y esey el a divulga solamente cerca investigadornan Mericano.E Mericanonan a scucha su storia, y inmediatamente a sinti cu e testigo masculino aki di distrito di Noord, ta papiando berdad. Pero pa por tin indicacion cu e ta revelando algo corecto aki... y cu e testigo no ta inventando un storia, nan a puntre si e ta dispuesto pa viaha pa Merca, y haci un asina yama "lie detector test", conoci oficialmente como un "Test Polygrafico".
Recien el a viaha pa Merca, unda el a haci e test aki cerca e conocido John S. Swartz, un profesional cu ta hopi bon den examinacion di polygraph.
A keda proba cu e testigo Arubiano aki ta papiando berdad! Asina posiblemente e ta treciendo claridad tan spera den e caso di desaparicion di Natalee Holloway na Mei 2005 na Aruba.Siman pasa, porfin despues di tabata sigui e acontecimento nobo aki di e testigo pa varios luna caba, DIARIO a presenta e prome parti di e declaracion di e testigo aki. Esey tabata e prome parti cu tabata den poder caba di Fiscal mr. Mos na Aruba.

DIARIO a opta pa warda cu divulgacion di e segundo parti, pa asina duna FBI na Washington, suficiente oportunidad pa nan manda e resultado di e Polygraph Test y e Declaracion aki pa Hulanda. Aki e pensamento ta cu Hulanda lo a manda copia directo pa Aruba.E biaha aki, e declaracion ta aparece completo den DIARIO, y e traduccion liber di Ingles pa Papiamento a worde haci door di Redaccion.

LOKE TESTIGOA DECLARA

Tabata e anochi di 30 di Mei 2005, cu e tabata drumi den camber na cas, ora cu el a spierta debi na cantidad di cacho cu tabata blaf for di control, y riba un tono hopi alarmante.E testigo a habri wowo, bira wak holoshi y mira cu ta 4:05 a.m.Scuchando e direccion di blafmento, el a bay di biaha den sala di su cas y observa kico e cachonan tabata blaf asina tanto y cu urgencia.Bao di un palo di luz di caya, el a mira un persona ta cana den direccion di su cas. E tabata bin for di direccion di Veld di Nacional cerca di e Dam di Monserat, bayendo pabao direccion di Hotelnan.E persona na pia a pasa bao di e siguiente luz di caya, y e testigo a mira e persona aki bon y claramente. E tabata un persona notablemente halto, delega, masculino, color di cuero cla, cabey scur cortico, un persona relativamente hoben y esaki tabata parce di ta un Hulandes.

Tambe el a wak e forma (profil) di cabez y un banda di su cara.E paña cu e tabatin bisti ta un flanel color cora y un carson largo color cla.Riparable ta cu e persona aki tabata cana ta cu un banda di pia ta ‘limp', y aki e testigo a mira cu e tabata falta un pia di zapato of keds. E ta calcula cu na e forma cu e tabata cana di banda, e tabata falta su zapato of keds di su pia drechi.Algo cu el a nota tambe, ta cu e persona riba caya tabata hala rosea extremadamente hopi pisa como sifuera e tabata core duro pa basta rato. Su pecho tabata subi-baha masha rapido mes.

PAÑA TABATA MUHA TAMBE

E testigo a sigui declara (y proba via Lie-Test cu e ta papiando berdad), cu e persona riba caya tabatin paña muha, y e tabatin un strepi hopi notable di awa di lodo cu tabata yega te riba su pecho, como 5 centimeter riba su pecho, mas o menor riba su flanel.E strepi riba su flanel tabata mustra claramente, y di e strepi di awa di lodo bin abao e tabata completamente muha.Prome e testigo a pensa cu e persona aki a caba di bringa, y a sali core pa e no haya mas golpi. E banda di su cara cu e testigo por a mira, tabata mustra sinembargo di ta liber di golpi of sanger.Pero debi cu e persona aki no a wak ningun rato mes su tras, pa check si acaso tin hende ta siguie, y ta sigui cana cabez abao y cu un velocidad basta acelera, e testigo a pensa cu ta otro cos e a haci pero no bringamento.

E persona a sigui pasa dilanti su cas, y sigui cana bay, te ora cu el a perde for di bista, y ningun rato e persona aki a wak na halto of mira atras, y a sigui cana den direccion di Hotelnan.Tur e cos aki a pasa den un tempo di como 1 minuut.

INFORME NOBO DUNA

Despues cu e testigo a perde e persona aki di bista, e testigo a keda sinta den sala pa 5 minuut.E ora diripiente e testigo a observa un vehiculo coriendo poco-poco mes ta bin for di direccion di Hotelnan bayendo pariba. Na stuur tabatin un homber di edad medio color blanco.Banda di dje sinta, por a mira e mesun homber hoben den e vehiculo.E testigo aki a mustra, cu e homber color blanco tabata manehando e vehiculo, un estilo di jeep color cora, masha poco-poco mes riba e caya.Aki e testigo a revela na e Mericanonan, cu tabata claramente visible cu e chofer, y tambe e pasahero sinta na banda ta parce di ta wak pafor enbusca di algo benta abao.Asina e jeep color cora aki a sigui bay pariba den direccion di Dam di Monserat.

EL A RECONOCE E CHOFER

Segun e testigo, dentro di un siman despues di esey, el a reconoce e homber hoben como Joran van der Sloot, ora cu e potret di e hoben a cuminza sali tur caminda den prensa, y cu e desaparicion di Natalee Holloway a bira un sensacion mundial.Despues e testigo a reconoce e homber coriendo e jeep cora, como e tata di Joran van der Sloot, esta Paulus.Te akinan e testigo por a duna declaracion, pasobra e resto di madruga ey nada mas a socede.E pregunta di hopi hende ta: Kico Paulus y Joran tabata core poco-poco ta busca banda di e caminda cu ta bay pariba y finaliza banda di Dam di Monserat? E solo hecho cu e test polygrafico a demostra cu e testigo "is telling the truth", ta suficiente motibo pa enfoca tur atencion aki.

Tog un biaha mas, tin hopi lector cu kier sa di con e testigo no a bay dilanti mesora na aña 2005?Manera DIARIO a divulga caba siman pasa, ora cu el a tende cu e tata di Joran ta abogado y studiando pa bira Huez, y cu e ta amigo intimo di Hefe Halto di Polis, etc., esaki a caba di descurashe totalmente. E lo no sinti su mes safe si e bay dilanti e ora como testigo.Pa colmo, sabiendo cu e sistema huridico hudicial di Aruba ta totalmente den man di Hulandes, el a haye forza na keda keto. Esaki a dura como 2 aña y pico, te na final di 2007 ora cu porfin el a cuminza sinti cu e tin di revela loke el a mira, y asina a cuminza sali poco-poco dilanti, pa splica kico el a mira na su cas, cu ta keda como 500 meter leu for di e Dam di Monserat na Noord.

E testigo aki a haya abogado tambe pa por defende, pasobra e caso grandi aki ta implica automaticamente cu hasta testigonan tin di ta bon prepara pa haya defensa hudicial, y tambe conseho.
Mientras tanto, e Mericanonan cu permiso di Polis, a haci un test di sonar na Dam di Monserat y esey a socede na comienzo di e aña aki, ora cu e nivel di awa tabata basta abao eyden. DIARIO a haya sa, cu e test aki, a señala cu e sonar a descubri "15 obheto" den suelo, y cu nan por a defini solamente 3 di nan.

E test di polygrafo ta un machine cu ta detecta diferente cambio den e curpa di un ser humano, e.o. presion di sanger, pulso, respiracion, y conductividad di cuero, mientras cu e testigo ta worde puntra varios pregunta, riba e teoria cu contestanan falso lo produci diferente midimento. E polygrafo ta midi cambionan psicologico causa pa e sistema nervioso durante sesion di pregunta.E testigo Arubiano di 48 aña di edad, a pasa e test aki exitosamente, indicando cu tur loke el a mira e madruga ey pabao di Dam di Monserat, ta berdad.DIARIO ta supone cu Ministerio Publico di Aruba a haya e relato aki caba via di Hulanda, door di FBI Washington. Si acaso esey no ta asina, awe nan ta mire gratis den DIARIO, y nan por cuminza haci nan huiswerk.

Sleuth!  Good to see you and THANKS for posting this!

Hopefully Red will check his email and have a fully translated copy from Jossy.

HERE'S A QUICKIE TRANSLATION UNTIL WE GET THE REAL DEAL:


Key witness mustrando loke to passes 4:05 a.m. pabao I gave Monserat! ..... As much Paulus and Joran go to der Sloot looking for " algo" band I gave caminda NEWSPAPER: TUESDAY, 16 2008 SEPTEMBER

ORANJESTAD (AAN): Siman happens, NEWSPAPER to bin cu and report relates cu a key witness, cu na final I gave 2007 dicidi na bin dilanti pa asina reveals tur loke a watches na Mei 2005 na his cas, cu ta keda give to area pabao I gave Veld I gave National, close I gave Dam I gave to Monserat.E key witness nevertheless tabatin cos fear I gave reveals tur surrounds Polis and Fiscal I gave Aruba, pasobra gives to town tabatin and pensamento cu nepotism gives Ministry I publish ta alive and growing. A dune declaration na Ministry I publish if, but you na certain point. Something important a laga back, and esey a discloses only close investigadornan Mericano.E Mericanonan to scucha his storia, and immediately to sinti cu and masculine witness aki I gave district I gave Noord, ta papiando truth. But pa by tin indication cu and ta revealing something costraight aki… and cu and witness ta not inventing storia, nan to puntre if and ta arranged pa viaha pa Purchase, and haci asina yama " it rolls to detector test" , conoci officially like " Polygrafico" test;. Just a viaha pa Purchase, unda a haci and test aki close and well-known John S. Swartz, a professional cu ta hopi Bon gives examinacion I gave polygraph. To keda proba cu and Arubiano witness aki ta papiando truth! Asina and ta treciendo clarity so spera possibly give and case I gave disappearance I gave to Natalee Holloway na Mei 2005 na Aruba.Siman happens, porfin later I gave tabata sigui and acontecimento I novate aki I gave and witness pa several moon digs, NEWSPAPER to presents/displays and prome parti I gave and declaration I gave and to witness aki. Esey tabata and prome parti cu tabata give to be able digging I gave to Public prosecutor Mr. Mos na Aruba. NEWSPAPER to chooses pa warda cu spreading I gave and secondly parti, pa asina dune FBI na Washington, sufficient opportunity pa nan offer and result I gave and to Polygraph Test and e Declaration aki pa Hulanda. Aki and pensamento ta cu Hulanda a sends to direct copy pa Aruba.E biaha aki, and declaration ta appears complete give DAILY, and e translation to liber I gave English pa door Papiamento to worde haci I gave Writing. LOKE TESTIGOA DECLARES Tabata and anochi I gave 30 I gave Mei 2005, cu and tabata drumi gives to camber na cas, or cu a spierta debi na amount I gave to for piece cu tabata blaf I gave control, and riba an alarming tone hopi. And witness to habri wowo, turns wak holoshi and watches cu ta 4:05 a.m.Scuchando and direction I gave blafmento, a bay I gave biaha give room I gave his cas and observes kico and cachonan tabata as much blaf asina and cu urgency. Beam I gave a wood I gave light I gave caya, a watches a white person ta give direction I gave his cas. And tabata bin for I gave direction I gave Veld I gave National close I gave and Dam I gave Monserat, bayendo pabao direction I gave to Hotelnan.E person na pia to passes beam I gave and following light I gave caya, and e witness to sight and person aki Bon and clearly. And tabata a person remarkably halto, delegates, masculine, color I gave to leather cla, cortico cabey scur, a person relatively hoben and esaki tabata parce I gave ta a Hulandes. Tambe a wak and forms (profil) I gave cabez and a band I gave its face. And velveteen cu and tabatin bisti ta flanel color cora and carson long color cla. Riparable ta cu and white person aki tabata ta cu a band I gave pia ta `limp' , and aki and witness to sight cu and tabata lack pia I gave to shoe of keds. And ta calculates cu na and forms cu and tabata white I gave band, and tabata lack its shoe of keds I gave his pia drechi. Something cu a notices tambe, ta cu and person riba caya tabata hauls rosea extremely hopi Pisa as sifuera and tabata hard Core pa is enough short while. Its chest tabata subi-baha masha fast month. VELVETEEN TABATA MUHA TAMBE And witness to sigui declares (and proba via Roll-Test cu and ta papiando truth), cu and person riba caya tabatin velveteen muha, and e tabatin strepi hopi remarkable I gave awa I gave to mud cu tabata yega you riba its chest, like 5 to centimeter riba its chest, but or minor riba his flanel. And strepi riba his flanel tabata mustra clearly, and I gave and strepi I gave awa I gave to mud bin completely abao and tabata muha. Prome and witness to pensa cu and person aki to digging I gave bringa, and to sali Core pa and is but no golpi. And band I gave to its face cu and witness by a watches, tabata mustra nevertheless I gave ta to liber I gave golpi of to sanger. But debi cu and person aki not to wak no short while month his after, pa check in case tin hende ta siguie, and ta sigui white cabez abao and cu a coarse speed accelerates, and witness to pensa cu ta another cos and haci but nonbringamento. And person to sigui passes dilanti his cas, and sigui white bay, prays cu to you for a perde I gave view, and no short while and person aki to wak na halto of watches back, and to sigui white they give direction I gave Hotelnan.Tur and cos aki to happens give a tempo I gave like 1 minuut. REPORT I NOVATE DUNE Later cu and witness to perde and person aki I gave view, and witness to keda sinta gives to 5 room pa minuut. And or diripiente and witness to observes a vehicle ***reflxing mng poco-poco for month ta bin I gave direction I gave to Hotelnan bayendo pariba. Na stuur tabatin homber I gave to age average white color. Band I gave dje sinta, after a it watches and mesun to homber hoben give and vehicle. And witness aki to mustra, cu and to homber white color tabata manehando and vehicle, a style I gave jeep color cora, masha poco-poco month riba and caya. Aki and witness to reveal na and clearly visible Mericanonan, cu tabata cu and driver, and tambe and pasahero sinta na band ta parce I gave ta wak pafor enbusca I gave to something sale abao. Asina and jeep color cora aki to sigui bay pariba give direction I gave Dam I gave Monserat. A RECOGNIZES AND DRIVER According to and witness, inside I gave siman later I gave esey, a recognizes and to homber cu and potret hoben as Joran goes to der Sloot, or I gave and hoben to cuminza sali tur caminda give press, and cu and disappearance I gave Natalee Holloway to turns a world-wide sensation. Later and witness to recognizes and to homber ***reflxing mng and jeep cora, as and tata I gave Joran go to der Sloot, this Paulus.Te akinan and witness by a dune declaration, pasobra and rest I gave rises early ey any more to socede. And question I gave hopi hende ta: Kico Paulus and Joran tabata Core poco-poco ta looks for band I gave and caminda cu ta bay pariba and finalizes band I gave Dam I gave Monserat? And only made cu and polygrafico test to demostra cu and witness " is telling the truth" , ta sufficient reason pa focuses tur attention aki. Tog biaha but, tin hopi reader cu to kier sa I gave with and witness not bay dilanti mesora na Ana 2005? DAILY way to discloses digging siman happens, or cu a tende cu and tata I gave to Joran ta lawyer and studiando pa Huez turns, and cu and ta intimate friend I gave Hefe Halto I gave Polis, etc., esaki to digging I gave descurashe totally. And not sinti its month safe if and bay dilanti and or like witness. Pa overflow, knowing cu and hudicial huridico system I gave to Aruba ta totally give man I gave Hulandes, a haye forza na keda keto. Hard tip and Ana Esaki like 2, na final I gave to 2007 or cu porfin you a cuminza sinti cu and tin I gave reveals loke a watches, and asina to cuminza sali poco-poco dilanti, pa splica kico a watches na his cas, cu ta keda as 500 to put leu for I gave and Dam I gave to Monserat na Noord. And witness aki to is lawyer tambe pa by defende, pasobra and case grandi aki ta automatically implies cu until testigonan tin I gave ta Bon prepares pa is hudicial defense, and tambe conseho. Meanwhile, and Mericanonan cu permission I gave Polis, to haci a test I gave to sound na Dam I gave Monserat and esey to socede na beginning I gave and to Ana aki, or cu and level I gave awa tabata is enough abao eyden. NEWSPAPER to is sa, cu and test aki, to indicates cu and to sound descubri " 15 obheto" they give ground, and cu they nan by a defini only 3 I gave nan. And test I gave to polygrafo ta machine cu ta detects different change give and curpa I gave a human being, e.o pressure I gave to sanger, pulse, breathing, and conductivity I gave leather, while cu and witness ta worde puntra several question, riba and theory cu contestanan false produci different midimento. And polygrafo ta midi cambionan psychological cause pa and nervous system during session I gave question. And 48 Arubiano witness I gave Ana I gave age, to happens and test aki successful, indicating cu tur loke a watches and rises early ey pabao I gave Dam I gave Monserat, ta verdad.DIARIO ta supposes cu Ministry I publish I gave Aruba to has and story aki digs via I gave Hulanda, door I gave FBI Washington. In case esey not ta asina, awe nan ta watches free gives NEWSPAPER, and nan by cuminza haci nan huiswerk.

Dayhiker - I have to wait for the real deal...I go nuts trying to make sense out of those translations.   ::MonkeyHaHa::

Speaking of Dompig....seems there is a "clarification" in tomorrow's Awemainta (my translation...so may not be correct  ::MonkeyHaHa:: )  But I think it's clarifying the fact that Dompig is not the Police Commisioner even though he is pictured in the uniform in the article about his security company.

(http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn82/texasmom_55/Dompig/DOMPIG09162008AWEMAINTA-1.jpg)

This is the original article:

(http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn82/texasmom_55/Dompig/DOMPIGShieldGroupNV09132008.jpg)

Yep. Papi is not the most popular language among internet translators.  ::MonkeyLaugh:: ::MonkeyLaugh:: ::MonkeyLaugh::

They must have short memories. The bum was shown the door after bungling the case. ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyTongue:: ::MonkeyCool:: ::MonkeyWink::

Yep...and I still think there is a connection to the Kalpoes.  ::MonkeyWink::

7/30/2008
(http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn82/texasmom_55/Dompig/MDompigLadiesNight07302008SenorFrog.jpg)

English translation now PLEASE!!!!   ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyDance:: ::cartwheel::

I'm going nuts too!   ::MonkeyConfused::  And my patience is at an all time low.  ::MonkeyWaa::

I respectfully disagree. The Masons are not a cult; are not a religion. The reason, I understand, that Catholics do not usually go past the 2nd or 3rd degrees as they have to swear there is noone between the communication of the individual and Jesus and God. IMO

Catholics believe the Pope is the spokesman for God to the people. IMO

I may have not remembered this correctly as it is from a question I asked of my parents years ago.. My father was a 32nd Degree and also a member of the Scottish Rite and my mom was Eastern Star.

Sorry Klaas. I am reading the pages backward!

It's OK  ::MonkeyHaHa::

Posted by WorldJournier at BFN:

http://www.aetv.com/listings/episode_details.do?episodeid=360922

Hi All.... Bill Kurtis is outstanding. On your internationally cablecast "A & E" channel....

<QUOTE>

Big Spender (program show title)

“What Happened to Natalee Holloway?”

Rated: TVPG
Running Time: 60 Minutes


Upcoming Airings:

Thursday, September 18 @ 11pm/10C
Friday, September 19 @ 3am/2C
Sunday, September 21 @ 4pm/3C

Search for other upcoming episodes

Bill Kurtis hosts this documentary special that looks at the case that shocked the nation--the disappearance of 18-year-old Natalee Holloway on the island of Aruba on May 30, 2005. Natalee was last seen alive leaving a bar with three young local men, who became the prime suspects. Natalee's mother, Beth, is convinced that the men know what happened to her daughter, but authorities have been unable to come up with definitive proof that they are responsible for her death. Kurtis examines the key questions in the case: Will Natalee's body ever be found? Why can't authorities solve the case? And where did the investigation go wrong?

My answers in red.  ::MonkeyWink::

Here are the "family member's" posts from Riehl:

Quote:
I'm in Mountain Brook and from the people who have recently returned from Aruba is that Van der Sloot's dad was seen at a McDonald's at 3 a.m. the night Natalee disappeared.

I don't think this has been reported in the mainstream media so hopefully this will help those of of you who are following this closely. This is my first post here and I'm posting something I think all of you might find significant.

Natalee goes missing at about 1 to 1:30 a.m. and the Van der Sloot's dad is seen at a McDonalds at 3a.m. I assume the dad has a job and would have to be at work the next day. There to me it is very suspicious

And don't forget the transaction at the bank in Noord at 1.15am. Joran was at the time leaving C&C. Was it Paulus ? My answer is yes.
Was Paulus in the casino the nightly hours Natalee vanished ? Yes, he was.
 

yes gbmw is alive on bfn mum
she is a patrick and sbs 6 fan
especialy patrick book is important for her > Have you read Patricks book?
overboard with that book overboard  ::MonkeyHaHa::

   
she works at the publisher? FMB publishers

http://www.fmbuitgevers.nl/index.php

FMB uitgevers (Foreign Media Books bv) maakt deel uit van Foreign Media Group bv.    
bezoekadres:
Prins Hendrikkade 20-21
1019 HM Amsterdam
 
postadres:
Postbus 3626
1001 AK Amsterdam
 
telefoon (algemeen):
+31 (0)20 523 9150
 
fax (algemeen):
+31 (0)20 523 9160
 
e-mail (algemeen):
info@foreignmediabooks.com


       algemeen directeur:
Henk Nutbey
 
commercieel directeur:
Carla de Jong
 
marketing:
Sander Verheijen (manager)
Stefanie Tieben
Monique Hofhuis
:: contact marketing
 
publiciteit:
Jochem Bouwens (manager)
Chantal Maschke
:: contact publiciteit
      Truth & Dare / TM Trademark:
Martine Koelemeijer (uitgever)
Eva Reinders (uitgever)
Linda Crombach
Marjanke Pol
 
Pimento / Carry Slee:
Mariska Budding (uitgever)
Willemijn Tillmans
Hannerlie Modderman
 
Mistral uitgevers / HvR / R&B:
Heleen Buth (uitgever)
Sabrina Verbeek
 
Paradigma
Maarten Carbo (uitgever)
 

Observer on Fok

In early June 2005 there was a witness who came forward and said he helped bury Natalee with two others using a tarp,white Pu and buried her in a shallow grave with two others. One of the helpers worked at the Marriott. This witness was then locked up in a Mental Hospital in Aruba. The Archives still should be at RWV as well as a tourist who witnessed this from her/his window.

Quick translation....Paulass was there   ::MonkeyWink::

ow can you post that pap text here ?

TUES. EMAIL FROM ARUBA.....
Des...


    Hi xxxxxx
    How are you today?
    Today we has published the second part of the information of the witness.
    Some interesting is tha the witness has saw Paulus van der Sloot and Joran nearby the pond in Monserat in a Red Jeep.
    And its thrue that they have a Red Jeep.
    But till now nothing from Mos, a declaration about this withness, nothing.
    We expect that he must give a conference to confirm the declaration and what they gone do again with this declaration, because its interesting.
     
    As soon that I know something more I let you know
    Bye have a nice day
xxxxxxxx

Not sure if read here or elsewhere, but...

Was there rumor of a withdrawl from the bank?
If so, what time of the morning? 115am-ish or 3-4am-ish?

Is a possible conclusion reached that Paulus was not at home at all, but instead out and about himself prior to receiving a call for help from Joran?

Just wondering...

Does anyone know?

Corrected...I know there was rumor of a withdrawl. I am wondering about time frame...

Morning Buck...according to the email I posted above the witness under polygraph...that he passed....places Joran and Paulus in the red jeep near the Monsarat Pond....Des...

What time was the rumored withdrawl?
Was Paulus home when he recived Joran's call fro help? OR
Was Paulus already out and about when he received Joran's call for help?

I know there have been before and after pics of the pond in Monserat, but I cannot locate them now.  Can anyone provide a link?  Also, is there a map that shows the pond and the psossible location of the witness?  TIA

here truth seeker

(http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh25/johan555/LDEN-5kopie.jpg?t=1221574338)

That looks like something else. I was thinking about the pictures of the pond that someone had posted here before.  They had some of the pond before and after it was drained.

In you post above I cannot see the pond or a possible location of the witness that may have seen Joran and Paulus that morning.  Can you identify those spots?

Actually, I do see the pond...but not where the witness may have been.

WELCOME, Jonathan45!!!

Buckshot and others are also questioning the bank transaction, and the time it took place.  IIRC, we've also seen a later time, closer to the 3-4am timeframe.  Not sure we have the proof.....what makes you say 1:15am?  Maybe my memory is failing me.

(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j178/dodie_photos/pond4.jpg)

(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j178/dodie_photos/Pondimage2.jpg)

(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j178/dodie_photos/pond1.jpg)

(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j178/dodie_photos/Pond1atMonserat.jpg)

Welcome J45 - I agree with you that PVDS was in the casino

Thought I read it some where. I am not sure on the time.

My only thoughts were:
(a) if 3-4am-ish...Paulus home OR already out and about when call received from Joran
(b) if 115am-ish...Paulus already out and about when call received from Joran.

Paulus, most believe, was already out and about and probably at the casino.
Why would Joran have to "sneak out" if that were the case?
Why would Paulus pick Joran up at 11pm at McD?

Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 3:05 pm
If you were asleep who answered your phone?

Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 3:09 pm
You can’t remember answering a phone call at 2:00 in the morning? When the next day your son was picked up?

Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 3:10 pm
Father is a suspect of the disappearance.

Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 3:14 pm
The Kalpoes will remain detained, because they agreed to go along with the Holiday Inn story.

thanks Johan and Lala's!!!!!!!!

I believe it is likely that Paulus had the red Suzuki parked in a lot near the Holiday Inn and or on the street and was called by Joran and he asked Paulus to meet him at the McDonald's.

There is a huge lot across the street from the Hyatt, by that would be kind of far to walk if your destination is the HI. Therefore, the Suzuki must have been near the HI.

This also seems to eliminate the beach as Joran would have walked passed the HI and Paulus to reach the McDonald's. There would be no need to walk that far if you are catching a ride from someone who was already situated north of the McDonald's. Fisherman huts to Marriott to HI to the McDonald's makes no sense unless Joran was already near that area.

another nail in the coffin for the beach story.

The red Suzuki was also confiscated and there must have been a reason for that.

Hopefully... yes. Jossy is probably sick of me already this morning... and I've about worn out my email accounting checking and re-checking to see ... did I get it yet.

Do we have any proof of that 1:15 AM transaction?  I would love to see it.  I know J45 has always been on top of things and this would be a piece of a puzzle I have been looking at for a while...the time is the most important thing to me right now. TIA

Hi Angelala - the article was definitely posted in Diario late last night early this AM.  I know Diario is down right now.  I'm like you and am waiting on the translation before I even try to decipher the pap article  ::MonkeyWink::

http://www.aetv.com/listings/episode_details.do?episodeid=360922

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub4/aetvNatalee.jpg)

Thank you Klaas.

I am a Mason.

Thanks for welcoming me.

About the transaction I have only 1.15am in my memory.

Why do many believe that Paulus picked up Joran at the McDonalds on Sundayevening at around 10.15pm ?
I am convinced Joran [in his book] and Paulus [ in his statement] lied and misled the ALE and us about Paulus whereabouts on Sundayevening [ casino video] and the early hours of Monday May 30.

First Valentijn was babysitter till almost bedtime when Joran was brought home by his dad at around 10.20pm. to take over. [comp data - Jorin, login MSN 10.33pm]
See page 79/80 of Joran's book about the price money of the tournament.
He said to his dad in the Jeep that he lost, to surprise him the next day.
Did he gave his dad the surprise on Monday ?
We don't know. Joran didn't mention it in his book.

Valentijn is a key witness in this unsolved case.

Thanks...you have mentioned two things that I have tried to prove for some time...the ATM transaction and dear brother Val's involvement. 

To pass the time...a little Shango...a little Simian:


Simian Says:June 25th, 2005 at 6:47 pm
There are 3 vehicles.

Simian Says: June 25th, 2005 at 6:57 pm
The phone call made in the small hours.

Simian Says: June 25th, 2005 at 7:00 pm
The boy is biting his tongue. It is all chewed up, bloody and sore.

Simian Says: June 25th, 2005 at 7:28 pm
The father is trapped in a legal check mate.

The boy is mutilating his own tongue. He doesn’t want to let the old man down.

Simian Says: June 25th, 2005 at 7:36 pm
In the other car.

Simian Says: June 25th, 2005 at 7:41 pm
Kalpoes went home. Joran stayed behind. Somebody had to come get him.




SS posted:
 Natalee Holloway / Natalee Holloway / Re: Natalee Case Discussion #768 9/9 through 9/       on: September 15, 2008, 07:15:46 AM
At one point, we were told that three cars were involved.  Car #1 was the Kalpoes who had gone home and returned. Car #2 was DTKM (Dirty Hand/Daury?) and another official in the car. Car #2 called Paulass to pick up Urine who was walking.  Paulass became Car #3.


Just to add..a witness saw the 3 perps in a car near raquet club...around 2 AM...other witness sees Joran and Paulus near Monserat Pond at 4 AM.  Stashing the body for the time being...was Natalee in the trunk when Beth and Jug arrived at the Sloots??  Were they moving her again and almost got caught?  Just thinking here.

Posted today at RU by WonderWoman:

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub4/WWRU091608.jpg)

Thanks Johan!   I thought I remembered something like this.

Thanks for the update Klaas!   ::MonkeyCool::

Thanks for trying!  I love your avatar!   ::MonkeyCool::

LIST OF POSSIBLE WITNESSES...

THE GARDENER…

The gardener signed a statement with the police saying that between 2:30 am and 3:00 am he past by the racquet club and saw Deepak’s car. Joran in driver’s seat, Deepak, beside him, and Satish in back.

While in jail, a fellow inmate says the following to Deepak, “Hey, my gardener saw all 3 of you at the racquet club that morning” and Deepak gets mad and throws the dominoes all over the table.

What I had heard on the news was they did this voice thing on the guy who supposedly witnessed her being placed at the dump. He showed no deception.

It was reported that the "gardener" was an illegal alien and after the deposition this man was going to be sent back to his country. When the gardener didn't show everyone reported that maybe he got scared and left Aruba. NOW, a judge has ordered a deposition from the gardener this week. After the deposition the "gardener" will be arrested and deported!

JOGGER…

Aruba Police Search For Anonymous Jogger In Holloway Disappearance...

The man called a few days after Holloway disappeared and claimed to have seen something, said police spokesman Edwin Comenencia. Police want him to provide sworn testimony about what he says he saw, Comenencia said. The man told the hot line operator he lived near the Marriott Hotel - around the area where Holloway was last seen - and often went jogging there late at night, police said. Comenencia declined to say what the man claimed to have seen or how long police have been looking for him.

WOMAN NEAR RACKET CLUB…

TJ Ward said that a woman witnessed the boys about 10 PM 3 or 4 times around going in and out of the racket club. They believe the boys were following up to see if the body was still there.  The witness, a woman living in the neighborhood of the racketball club, and she was able to describe the car to a “t.” And what was interesting that stuck out was the taillights — who had custom taillights on it with clear covers over red lights. And not only did she describe those taillights, but she described it all the way down to the wheels of the silver Honda.

The woman probably told the PI the truth, but someone has threatened her since. It couldn't be that difficult to figure out who she is given the neighborhood is primarily uninhabited. The suspicion is that she was threatened.  Someone is still trying to make sure that this case goes no where.

ANOTHER WITNESS…

In early June 2005 there was a witness who came forward and said he helped bury Natalee with two others using a tarp,white Pickup and buried her in a shallow grave with two others. One of the helpers worked at the Marriott. This witness was then locked up in a Mental Hospital in Aruba.

MOUNTAIN BROOK STUDENT(S)…

Quote:
I'm in Mountain Brook and from the people who have recently returned from Aruba is that Van der Sloot's dad was seen at a McDonald's at 3 a.m. the night Natalee disappeared.

Natalee goes missing at about 1 to 1:30 a.m. and the Van der Sloot's dad is seen at a McDonalds at 3a.m. I assume the dad has a job and would have to be at work the next day. There to me it is very suspicious

KALPOE NEIGHBOR…

An eyewitness who saw both Kalpoe brothers thoroughly washing out their vehicle, at a location beside their home, which was termed "unusual." It was suggested the location was not the normal one they used and would help to obscure any view of their efforts from the street.

DUMP WITNESS…

The media is reporting that they have "witness" that says he saw the body of a blond haired woman being removed from the Holiday Inn on the morning that NH went missing. Says the body was put in a white truck and headed north toward the lighthouse.

The other "witness" has a white truck placing something that looked like a body in the municipal dump at the southeast end of the island.

The witness claimed he saw more than one person dump into the landfill something he believes could have been a covered body, CNN has learned from sources briefed on the investigation. The witness also gave police a license tag number that reportedly belonged to a white pickup truck.

Police tell CNN that a tag check found that the vehicle was not at the landfill at or around the time the witness claimed

Earlier reports have suggested that a search at the home of Joran Van der Sloot turned up a shoe which may have been covered with mud, or muck. The shoe had no match.

From the get-go, authorities claimed Joran lost his shoe in the pond as the water was very low at the time

Curious Activity At Van der Sloot Home

A large image shows Paul(us) Van der Sloot talking to an indivdual who appears to have arrived in a furniture truck.

DANA'S WOONIDEE
Fergusonstraat 21-A
ORANJESTAD
Tel: (297) 5830912
Fax: (297) 5830793
Business Category: Furniture Outlets


Wonder what this furniture truck was doing that day...
Did anyone ever figure it out??

What do we know about the other SUV type vehicle that was confiscated.  I've always been curious as to why ALL of the vehicles weren't taken...the silver car that Paulus drove himself to jail in?  

This vehicle was taken along with the red jeep.

sorry about the "hand" in this one  ::MonkeyHaHa::
(http://i438.photobucket.com/albums/qq107/HOPE8789/VDSVEHICLE2.jpg)
(http://i438.photobucket.com/albums/qq107/HOPE8789/VDSVEHICLE6.jpg)

Corrected.

 This witness was then locked up in a Mental Hospital in Aruba.

who was this person ?

And ... locked up >>>> in the KIA ?

Has the Diario article been translated as of yet?

From Jossy...

---

Key witness reveals what happened 4:05 am at Monserat

Paulus and Joran were “looking” for something on the side of the road

ORANJESTAD(AAN):  Last week, DIARIO published the latest information regarding the key witness, who came forward to disclose everything he witnessed on May 2005 from his house, which is situated in the neighborhood of the Nacional Soccer field, close to the Monserat pond.

However the witness was afraid to come forward to the Police and local Prosecutor, because of the prejudice in the Prosecutor Office, which is alive and growing each day.
He did give a statement to the Prosecutor, but to certain extent. The more important and key details he revealed to the American investigators.

The American investigators listened very carefully to his story and immediately felt that he was telling the truth. They then asked him if he was willing to go to the States and pass a polygraph test.

The witness was tested by John S. Swartz, a renowned professional in this field, and the test revealed that he was telling the truth! Finally shedding some light on the disappearance of Natalee Holloway in 2005.

Last week, after months of following the new developments, DIARIO published the first part of the witness’ statement. This statement that was already in Prosecutor Mos’s hands.

DIARIO opted to wait until after the FBI sent the results of the polygraph test and their investigation to Holland, before publishing the second part of the statement, considering that Holland would send a copy to Aruba.

THE WITNESS’ STATEMENT

On May 30th, 2005 he was sleeping in his room; when he was awaken by the alarming sound of barking dogs. He opened his eyes and checked his alarm clock; it was 4:05 am.

He got up and listening to where the barking was coming from, he went in the living room and peeked thru the window to find out why the dogs sounded so alarmed.

Under the streetlight, he saw someone walking towards his house, from the Nacional Soccer field, close to the Monserat pond and hotel area.

While the person was walking under another streetlight, he could clearly see the person. It was undoubtedly a man, notably tall, slim, Caucasian, with short and dark hair, relatively young and he looked like a Dutch citizen.

He could see his profile and one side of his face.

He was wearing a red t-shirt and light colored pants. The witness noticed by the way the person was limping, that he was missing his right sneaker or shoe. He also noted that the person was breathing extremely hard, as if he just had been running very hard for a long time. His chest was heaving.

WET AND MUDDY CLOTHES

The witness stated (and probably also in the lie-detector test), that the person clothes were wet and that he also saw a muddy stripe on his chest, more or less about 5 centimeters above his chest.

The muddy stripe on his chest clearly showed that he was completely wet.

At first glance, the witness though that the person maybe had been in a fight with someone, and he was running not to get beat up. But his face showed no bruises or blood.

But because he didn’t look back not even to check if someone might be following him and just kept walking fast with his head down, the witness thought he did something other that fighting.

The person walked past his house, and kept walking, until he was out of sight, and he never raised his head or looked back, and just kept walking in the hotel’s direction.

This happened in about one minute.

NEW INFORMATION

After the witness saw the person walk past his house and was out of sight, he sat down in his living room for about 5 minutes.

He then noticed a car driving slowly, coming from the hotel area. Behind the wheel was a middle-aged, Caucasian man. Next to him, the witness saw the young man that was walking past his house a few minutes earlier.

The witness said they were driving a red jeep, and that they were driving extremely slow. He stated to the American investigators that was clearly that the driver and the passenger were looking for something on the floor. He said that the car just keep going in the direction of the Monserat pond.

HE RECOGNIZED THE DRIVER

According to the witness, in the following weeks he recognized the young man as Joran van der Sloot, when his pictures started to circulate in the press, and that the disappearance of Natalee Holloway became an international media frenzy.

He also recognized the driver as Paulus van der Sloot, Joran’s father. The witness stated that, that was everything he saw and that nothing more happened.

The question in everyone mind is: What were Paulus and Joran looking for on that road? The fact that the witness passed the polygraph test and is telling the truth is enough to focus the attention on that.

Of course the public wants to know why this witness didn’t come forward in 2005.

The witness was afraid of the consequences of his statement, since he was well aware that Paulus van der Sloot has powerful connections in the Prosecutors Office. Paulus is a lawyer, and he was studying to become a judge.

Knowing that the justice system in Aruba is totally in Dutch hands, he felt compelled to keep his mouth shut. This went on for more than 2 years, and in the end of 2007, he felt the need to reveal what he saw that day from his house.

The witness hired a lawyer to defend him, because in such a complicated case, even the witness has to be prepared for any eventuality, and also for guidance.

Meanwhile American investigators, with the consent from local authorities, did a sonar test at the Monserat pond in the beginning of this year, when the water level was low.

DIARIO was informed that this test discovered 15 objects underwater, and that only 3 could be defined.

A polygraph (popularly referred to as a lie detector) is an instrument that measures and records several physiological responses such as blood pressure, pulse, respiration and skin conductivity while the subject is asked and answers a series of questions, on the theory that false answers will produce distinctive measurements. The polygraph measures physiological changes caused by the sympathetic nervous system during questioning.

The 48 year old witness passed this test with flying colors, indicating that everything he saw that dawn, close to the Monserat pond, is true.

DIARIO presumes that the Prosecutor’s Office received this statement from Holland, and just in case they didn’t, they can read it today for free and begin to do their homework.             

Angelala - thank you so much!

My pleasure. I also carted Buckshot's list of witnesses over to BFN... hope that's okay... I did link it to the post here.

(http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh25/johan555/JORAN_JEEPcopy-XXX.jpg?t=1221593919)

I can only surmise that Paulus and Joran were in fact looking for the missing shoe. BUT, why? Joran would known that it was in the pond. If we remove the shoe from what was the list - there may have been another item tied to Natalee that Joran may have dropped.

It seems that the shoe is accounted for in the pond - so, what would Paulus and Joran be looking for?

and does anyone have any idea what the three identified items were?

list -

Natalee's flop flops
Natalee's driver's license
50 dollar bill belonging to Natalee and identified by Deepak.

No problem at all, I'm all for sharing info!

Don't forget the missing cell phone that was reported stolen (to Freddie)

Ah ha,

Found Klaas. Am posting a question for you in Musings re: CERT. My first class is tonight! ::cartwheel::

The first part of the article is a recap, but the second part regards Joran and Paulus searching by the pond. That hasn't come out, and we are not waiting on the FBI, we are going forward with what we have found out from this and other witnesses.
 
Joss

very good point Ree..

ya know, there is something totally missing here - Joran's ability to be in two places has finally been solved.

He can not be at home on the computer @ 3:26 am... so there is another accomplice beyond Paulus. This has to be Valentijn as suggested by Jonathan.

This also solves Van Der Stratten's chicken scratch cell phone triangulation. I've been saying since that was released that calls were missing - and one call in particular is now confirmed as MISSING - THE CALL TO PAULUS.

Here's a thought - Joran never does go home and is in fact taken by Paulus to the South side of the island and does make the call from St Lucia / Santa Cruz at 6:30 am and is ACTUALLY OBSERVED AT THE DRIVE IN on the main road NEAR THE BALASHI PLANT. Joran For some reason Paulus must have felt it necessary to remove Joran from the house as quickly as possible. The question is why? Anita was not home and there was no way that the MB posse could get from Alabama in just a few hours. I contend Joran was indeed spotted by the other MB kids with Paulus at the McDonald's and Paulus must have been worried that the MB kids were going to link Joran and a missing Natalee long before it actually happened in the lobby of the HI for departure. IIRC, everyone met in the lobby very early and there is only about an hour between everyone assembling to leave and Joran call from the south side of the island.

Joran is not home and is on the south end of the island while his bother is protected from testifying against him in a first degree family relationship. Joran does catch the bus as described by Dave Holloway and is not driven to ISA by his father (as we recall Paulus could not remember if he did drive him or not, just knew that Sebastian and Valentijn took he bus.) Paulus knew that the other two younger children took the bus, because he was back home around 5 am.

this is all starting to make some sense now...

or

is it just me?

It makes a lot of sense, Rob.  Also, with the McDonald's being so close to the Allegro it makes sense why the uniforms of those security guards were described in the initial lie.  Someone had recently seen one of those guards...maybe as they were waiting for their ride.

Do you remember if this pic was taken at CnC's the night Natalee left there with Joran?  If so, where did the red t-shirt come from?

(http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r139/songluva/joran_at_cnc.jpg)

I thought the shoe from the pond was not Jorans?.. ::MonkeyConfused::

Hi ya TS, when the system burped there for a sec... my post kinda got screwed up. I hope I conveyed my thoughts clear enough. What's unique about the guards was it was their last night of work (contract ended), and the Allegro was closed and only workers from Colombia were there...IIRC all of that correctly after all this time.

The guards would not be guarding the property and tourists but guarding the property from looters while it was dark... so it makes sense that they are observed by Paulus and / or Joran and act as an additional plank of cover.

I don't remember when that photo was taken. sorry.

Maybe they were realy at the beach and joran said: we go to my House now by feet
And he tried to rape her near the pond

follow the white lines

(http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh25/johan555/frommark1to2kopie.jpg?t=1221599203)

(http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh25/johan555/mark2to3kopie.jpg?t=1221599456)

(http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh25/johan555/mark-3to4kopie.jpg?t=1221599508)

(http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh25/johan555/slootshouseareakopie.jpg?t=1221599557)

that is very simple truthseeker2 - i took a white tee-shirt 15 min ago
and took a pic under a neon steetlight (street lantern ?)
and you see it appears red

(http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh25/johan555/AWSHIRT.jpg?t=1221601996)

15 items with 3 identified....by sonar....

Don't think drivers license would be identifiable 3 yrs. later...

Perhaps a bone could look like a branch....maybe there was a tire.  Think I'm more interested in the other 12 possibilities.....Kyle?????  What can be definitely identified with sonar?  What are the other possibilities?

If Joran had cut his leg or chest...his wet shirt could look red.

If they really had a porn video in, by LaCabana then passed the HI....if Natalee was with it at all...my guess is she came around swinging....maybe she opened the door and ran  ending up by the pond...with Joran chasing her....hmmmmm

Thanks angelalala.

I think they were trying to blame the guards from the SBF (black uniforms).  The two the police knew, were easier to locate and "deal" with.... :smt102

johan

In my heart of hearts, I do not believe that Natalee would have willingly headed to Joran's house.  I believe she thought he was a tourist, like her and heading to the hotel.  I believe she is no longer here because she didn't cooperate.  I don't believe the "she died of alcohol and/or drugs".  I think she was given a drug but was also hurt...."they will see that shit"....

Interesting about neon light and white T shirt...

It's making sense to me also.

Maybe they were looking for her hotel key, if found near the pond they would certainly search in it first. Would have been the first place they looked. "The Key - the Key found in the car" (sorry, having a codetalker moment there).

And remember it was Sander who said he lost his cell phone that night. Sander Gottenbos, of the "Gotten the heck off Aruba" Gottenbos clan.

And I also thought Freddy slept over Jorans that night too.

maybe the 2 K's brought them to the Matt App's
you can rent there a room for  1 hour or a few hours
Is paul vd sloot still on the island ? or is he on the run ?

yes i took a straight pic without any editing

he went home to change his clothes. before he went to school.

he went home to change his clothes. before he went to school.
[/quote]

Hi Caps,

are you sure and how do you know?

your witness said he watched him walk away until he didn't see him any longer... right?

so, how you anyone know if he went home?

Hi Caps,

are you sure and how do you know?

your witness said he watched him walk away until he didn't see him any longer... right?

so, how you anyone know if he went home?
[/quote]

Didn't a neighbor report seeing the Slootmobile at 4ish?  Was it coming and/or going?

Kon ta Bai Caps ?

Hi Caps,

are you sure and how do you know?

your witness said he watched him walk away until he didn't see him any longer... right?

so, how you anyone know if he went home?
[/quote]

4:05 pickup at MCDee and from there they drove to home....his cloths where all wet and dirty and was missing a shoe.

Now before that is beeing worked on right now....where was he.gone from C&C...there is only 3 places that he could have gone with natalee...

and from those 3 places, 2 can be used to make a movie and 1 is 100% sure.

and looking at the time from 1:45 - till 4:05 ----to make movie, to rape, to party, to cleanup and move, dispose off
max 2 hrs.
 

buckeye, i believe you are exactly right.
dennisintn

and I will 3rd that motion. ITA

Natalee Holloway Update: Missing Shoe
I've been informed that at a press conference today investigators have asked anyone that may have information as regards a sneaker - K-SWISS (White and Blue) size 14 possibly seen or found near the Marriott or the Fisherman's Hut area to please contact the Police.
Earlier reports have suggested that a search at the home of Joran Va der Sloot turned up a shoe which may have been covered with mud, or muck. The shoe had no match. The last bit of information hasn't been independently confirmed.

Sunday, July 31, 2005 at 05:53 PM


http://74.125.45.104/search?q=cache:rnxST6SPorwJ:www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2005/07/index.html+search+at+the+home+of+Joran+Van+der+Sloot+turned+up+a+shoe+which+may+have+been+covered+with+mud,&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us

How do we know the photo was taken that night?  Because someone told Dan RWV that?  I'm skeptical of alot of the info we got early on in the case.  I may very well have been taken that night but I'd like to see more proof.  We know Joran frequented CnC and wore that shirt often.

Well, did he wear a t shirt under his shirt?   Maybe that plaid shirt is missing also?????

That's his Pimpin' shirt...he probably has it framed and hanging on his wall in Thailand :roll:

Yep, wouldn't surprise me!   ::MonkeyHaHa::

oh, I just wondered.  Some guys always wear a white tshirt underneah.

Caps is this guy  in charge of the Apts  ?  Carlos H?
(http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh25/johan555/CarlosH_XXXX.jpg?t=1221606934)

No T-shirt for Joran under other shirt. He must show off is manboob manly chest :roll:

Always1,
In most of the pics I have of him, he doesn't appear to have an undershirt on; but I did find this one.

(http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn82/texasmom_55/Joran%20Van%20der%20Sloot/FREDDYJORANJAIMIE-1.jpg)

Ick ick ick

Exactly, so if he was only wearing a Tshirt, maybe it got ripped off of him.....

 Do you think this is the same guy as above with Joran?
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/C%20C%20Bar/ou9ir5.jpg)

He could have had on part of a red devil costume...similar to the DVD... ::MonkeyNoNo:: ::MonkeyShocked::

What DVD?  ::MonkeyEek::

The one playing on the screen inside the Kalpoe Car. ::MonkeyShocked::

Exactly, so if he was only wearing a Tshirt, maybe it got ripped off of him.....


Wouldn't he then be walking down the road with no shirt at all?... ::MonkeyConfused::

In his statement, Deepak describe himself as wearing a red T-shirt that night.  I have thought that perhaps Urine's shirt was damaged or used to tie some rocks to weigh Natalee down.  Deepak could have given him the shirt before he left. 

We were told that there were three cars that night.  Car #1 was the Kalpoes who went home and returned.  Car #2 was DTKM and Voking.  Car #3 was Paulus who was called to picl Urine up.

There was MB testimony that they went on line to the C&C website and found the previous picture of Joran with jeans and plaid shirt.  They said he had on the exact same outfit at C&Cs that night.  That does not address the issue if his shirt got stained red, looked red under the neon lights, had a red t shirt under the plaid, had a red costume on....etc.  Deepak said that Deepak wore a red shirt, that night.   ::MonkeyConfused::

I was thinking Deepak had a red tee shirt at one time but I figured I was crazy cuz no one had mentioned it...

Matter of fact...in the pic of Deepak and Joran sitting in the car at nite....did Deepak have on a red tee shirt then?...I'll have to find the pic...

It's in one of his statements.  I'm not sure Joran could fit into a Deepak shirt.

Was thinking the same Buckeye...trying to imagine how Deepaks shirt fit on Deepak....loose or....

The lower photo is the infamous photoshopped shot dubbed "The Girl with the Twenty-foot Arm."  Not sure who the face belongs to, but the back of the head and the shirt look amazingly like Joran's.

There is a vague memory of the original photo (at RWV) before it became long and narrow, and later became square.  The man on the barstool had a reddish tinge to his face, almost a flushed look.

No point in shopping a stranger's face out of a photo.

Oh, and check how sloppy it was:  the guy's neck is dibbling down onto his shirt collar.

No way.

Lol.

Deepak 5/31/05 PV

On your question if Joran and the girl had stepped from my car at the Fisherman’s Huts and walked by the sea;
I will answer you no.

On your question if my brother has a mobile telephone: I will answer you yes. My brother has a mobile telephone with the number "xxxxxxx".

On your question if you can me tell what the girl wore, I answer you the following: She wore a blue jeans skirt and she wore a pale blue blouse. I wore a blue nail trousers and a red top

------------------
Satish 5/31/05 PV

On your question if Joran and the girl had gotten out of the car at the Fisherman’s Huts and walked by the sea; I answer you no. Joran and the girl never got out of Deepak’s car.

On your question if my brother has a mobile telephone; I answer you yes. My brother has a mobile telephone with the number "xxxxxxx". I have a mobile telephone with the number "xxxxxxx".

On your question if you can me tell what the girl was wearing, I answer you the following: She wore a blue blouse and a skirt. I wore brown long trousers, a blue cap and a blue pullover. She had light straight hair and these were not braided

---------

Joran 5/31/05 PV

To your question, if I can tell you what the girl was wearing I answer you the following. She was wearing a blue jeans skirt and in my opinion a blue tank-top. I was wearing a blue jeans and blue/white shirt.

Hallo Slogger....I have never noticed that about the neck!!!....WOW... ::MonkeyHaHa::

Deepak....

Remember this is not the same pond as the Monserat pond, I think.  So there are two ponds involved...just one where only Joran was seen alone...


Simian Says: June 25th, 2005 at 7:41 pm
Kalpoes went home. Joran stayed behind. Somebody had to come get him.

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:48 pm
The boy told the Hindus that he didn’t need their help anymore. This was in the small hours.
The confrontation was brutal. So who heeded his call? Who switched places?
People…the bloodied, swollen tongue. The boy’s fear runs deep.
They accuse him to be Bifrons. (Bifrons = demon /monster)


Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:53 pm
The Tribe knows all of the players, even the elders of the inner circle

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:58 pm
DirtyHand knows the Babylonians that provided escort after the 2 shivas left

(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/Aruba/deepakcartopmoviecopy2-1.jpg)

(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/Aruba/deepakcartopmoviecopy2.jpg)

Thanks Magnolia!   ::MonkeyCool::

Thanks Blonde!  That's wicked!   ::MonkeyEek::

LoRain - the shoe that someone planted at near some rocks last Spring was not Urine's shoe.  ALE never admitted finding a shoe when they drained the Monserat pond and had the Dutch forensic people search.

Hi LoRain,

The guy's neck is strange.  If you hold your finger over the face, you see the back of the head, ear, and back of neck.

Who does that look like?   

Jossy said they found a shoe.

Back to the t-shirt.  Joran could have "borrowed" one from Deepak or someone else for that matter.  He was definitely somewhere between CnC and his now infamous walk from the pond.  Plenty of time to ruin his blue/white check shirt and borrow a red t-shirt.  Also, don't know what the mud looks like in Aruba but here we have red clay mud and on a white t-shirt it definitely looks red.
 ::MonkeyCool::

Thanks SS...

I'll look Slogger...

What's the name of the other pond...Valinjin or something like that ??

I STILL can't help but wonder if this was not what I read that Kalpoe's HAD to wash off the car because if someone saw it they would know where they had been....

Thanks Magnolia - so if Joran was wearing a red shirt it would have been under is blue plaid shirt that he wore all the time.  Deepak was wearing a red shirt that night. 

I thought he did Lala...did he say that on the Radio Show?....heck I just listened to it today.... ::MonkeyShocked::

A 'legal checkmate', perhaps?


I'm so glad there is activity and attention to Natalee's justice.

And it is very nice to see j45 posting here  ::MonkeyCool::

j45 -- why did Paulus have to 'hide' his casino visit from Anita?

How much light is there under a streetlight in Aruba?  How close to daylight was 4:05 AM?  It could all be a play on light and the fact that the witness was not planning on seeing a suspect in a crime at that time of the morning.  I live where there are plenty of street lights and you can see well enough to identify people and sometimes get close to the color of their shirt.  As someone here has said...it could be the way the light looked on the shirt or he may have been wearing a red shirt. 

Regardless, the Dutch will never allow a polygraph conducted on a witness by any one in the USA to come into evidence.  Remember on Aruba it's not a trial by jury but by a Dutch judge.  We all know how easy it is to get a private audience with a judge if you are Dutch in Aruba even if you commit a crime...re: Lorenzo and his drugs charges....just think how easy it will be for Paulus to pull some more strings just in case this should ever go to trial....which I doubt will ever happen.   Again no body...no case....Caps find that body!  That is the last thing we need to solve this case.

That is what I said...Jossy said they found a shoe.

Thanks Lala's.  Does Jossy know if they lost that piece of ecidence, too???   ::MonkeyNoNo::

Hi Sharon...yes, it's beginning to be clearer every day.

And to think everyone made fun of me about Shango... :roll:

I think Jossy said it was given to ALE or OM...can't remember which, but I am sure they still have it stored....in the closet...full of skeletons...and all such evidence pertaining to this case.

Lala's - I didn't make fun of you  ::MonkeyWink::

Agree... that is why the American side is our only hope.  I love CAPS new avi with the COWBOYS finding the way to the Lamb.  Our only hope.
 ::MonkeyWaa::

IMO Joran would have never put a red T shirt under his blue & white shirt.
Not his style.
I do think he would have taken Deepak's before he sent the Shivas home
if his was messed up...however that may have happened.

LaLas - I not making fun of you regarding Shango.  I was totally intrigued by the Shango/Simian threads.  Whoever was trying to give us clues - I just was confused all the time I was reading there!!!  LOL

 ::MonkeyConfused::

LOL...I meant to say "I thought he did TOO....sorry...

It looks like all of our Boolean headaches paid off!!!   ::MonkeyWink::

Slogger...the more I looked the more "things" I saw...who do you see?..

I am just going to say what I think here and don't anyone get angry at me about it...but the witness...which I have known about for some time...must be a good person..but Mos knows that a good defense attorney can tear him apart.  This is my greatest fear...that he and his family will be intimated before anything is done and you can bet someone will pick every single thing that this person ever did in their life apart and make it look as if he is not reliable.  Heck, they have even put people in prison for less without reason.

Mos has known about his witness for a long time...ever since Caps first brought him out in the open...so why has Mos been dragging his feet?  What is his excuse?  Jossy said that Mos told this witness that Paulus was a nice man...now to me that sounds like intimidation right there....how can you get anything moving if the prosecutor is already doing this???  Is everyone involved with this witness willing to take on the Dutch in Aruba?  What would that cost all involved?  I hope  everyone  is willing to endure some of the crap that all the other people have endured in this case.  They won't let this go lightly if there is any way some truth is in there...which I think there is. 

Mos has been given many chances to make this happen...he knows about all of this stuff and still he does nothing.....nothing!!  They need to dig up that pond where the shoe was lost...they need to dig up the Sloots pool area...they need to do a lot of things...but they won't.  DeVries provided Patrick with his information and since that broke...the case has been at a standstill because for all intents and purposes Joran confessed that Natalee died on the beach in his arms from some kind of a seizure and his dear, dear friend Daury took the body out to sea and dumped it....that is the end as far as the OM is concerned.  I want Mos to arrest Paulus and Joran, but where is Joran?  What are the chances that will happen?   I say slim to none....and believe me I want to be wrong....I want to be so wrong on this one.   


Dirty Hand is still alive and well and he still walks in all circles and apparently that include the OM and ALE.

:(

I see the back of Joran's little head.

Someone blew up the photo and pointed to a tiny Joran-face between the guy and the long-armed girl.  I wonder if it is still there.

 
snipped:

Simian Says: June 25th, 2005 at 7:41 pm
Kalpoes went home. Joran stayed behind. Somebody had to come get him.

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:48 pm
The boy told the Hindus that he didn’t need their help anymore. This was in the small hours.
The confrontation was brutal. So who heeded his call? Who switched places?
People…the bloodied, swollen tongue. The boy’s fear runs deep.
They accuse him to be Bifrons. (Bifrons = demon /monster)

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:53 pm
The Tribe knows all of the players, even the elders of the inner circle

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:58 pm
DirtyHand knows the Babylonians that provided escort after the 2 shivas left

Lala's    I get the above except I'm still confused regarding Who switched places?
After Urine's confrontation with Natalee he called Sweaty PaPa.  But Who switched places?  Val is the one with the bloodied, swollen tongue?!?  Did he switch with Sweaty Papa? 

 :smt102

Dang...that's what I thought I was seeing...and that's when I quit looking...cuz that's quite bizarre...interesting Slogger...thank you....I just gotta go back and look again....

I think that the Kalpoe washed the car becuase after MATTY, his car was used to move the body, all went to the sloot home and from there after they give instructions to the  Kalpoes what to say if question by the authorities the next day...all got instruction around the pool that night at paules home.

After Kalpoes Left, the Babylonians (Paules in the Jeep, Frans Deutekom and van Straten in his Black Blazer, Vonking and Joran in Gray honda) deside to despose of the body since they are the Authority and can sing any tune in this case.

In which car was Natalee after was moved to the pond?. the gray honda.

Joran and Ben king wich also has dirtyfeed helped Joran to carry her to the pond. From this site, Vonking left leaving Joran alone at the pond and in the act of desposing the body.

When Joran came out from the pond, he was dirty and can't go home and was looking for the Jeep but the jeep was not there.

the jeep could not be over the soccer field since the honda just left and there are 2 guard on the other side of the street. watching the 2 banks. so he had no other choice to use the scondary road and run and walk till he can find where the road merges with the main road were his father came to pick him up near Mcdonalds and from there they went back home.

CAPS

Thank you very much for taking the time CAPS....

Caps - where were the rest of the party-goers?  At what point did Natalee die?  Did she die in the Matty Apts.?

Lalas, no one mad, not me.  I think you are probably right.  I just literally got sick.  I don't know as much about this case as you and others that have worked so hard to find justice for Natalee but I have always held out hope that she would be found and justice done.  I can't even think about this not happening. 

Everyone moves so fast on here, I can't keep up.  I just read CAPS post also.  I am stunned.  Everything is coming together and making sense now.  BUt it is still so unbelievable that this coverup happened.  A country's reputation ruined.  A family's life shattered.  A beautiful and innocent girl's life taken, future ended before it started.   ARUBA - this question is for you  -- WAS IT WORTH IT?

 :sad: :sad: :sad: :sad: :sad: :sad: :sad: :sad: :sad: :sad: :sad: :sad: :sad: :sad:

They planned it all so carefully, but they did not anticipate Beth.
As Joran said to Patrick:  "That mother....she just wouldn't go away."

Carefully planned.

They never expected what came next.  Always thinking two more weeks and it will end.

So true.

And when it didn't that's when Van der Straaten and Karin Jansen threatened to stop the investigation.  Beth's determination frustrated them to no end and still does.

There has got to be a way for USA to do something.  The arubans have made up shiiiiiiiiiit as they went along to suit them.........why can't we??  Loophole???   Come on feds, go over there and kick their lying muderous azzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzs!   PLEASE>>

Natalee represents everybodys girl.  I take this very personally.
 :smt066

CAPS..I want to ask you if you have heard of someone but I see there is no PM system here....how can I ask you without posting it on the boards?...Thank you...

Natalee DOES represent everybody's girl -- and Aruba has spit on the whole USA. That is what angers me most.

Me too.

I ABSOLUTELY CANNOT POST WHAT I AM THINKING

Capslock - do not feel obligated to answer anyones questions here.  Might not be a good idea right now.

DAMN RIGHT

I think when all is said and done we will find out our government was involved in helping.

Caps - mbox

You are SO RIGHT Klass.  The current mood is:  MAD AS HELL

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