Scared Monkeys Discussion Forum

Link to last page of # 4 here>
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2886.msg499734#top

 ::MonkeyCool::

 ::MonkeyTongue::  Been waiting for a few days to start a new thread, and it figures Nut would ride right in and get it done while I wasn't around.   ::MonkeyHaHa::

So where are the Codetalkers?.....They'll be back.  ::MonkeyWink::

I am here...Can't say what I want! ::MonkeyWink::

These boards are being watched... ::MonkeyHaHa::

Vms or Finn...do either of you happen to have all the dates and times of Peeps posts...saw some mentioned as "from another thread" in the Peeps posts thread. I have August 1-4, 2 days later, August 25 and the other thread...TIA

Sorry Mum, all I have is what finngirl saved...

didn't save the times

his first post was aug 1:
about 50 hits from SM at the speed shop site
where he was the webmaster caught his attention

"2 days later" falls w/in aug 1-4 ...
his major participation was during those 4 days

the "another thread" where he is discussed
by other posters in LCD/lively case discussion
(but doesn't post himself)
is from sept 2005

he posted in LCD a few times during that summer
but it was just general conversation
and I didn't save those

there definitely were at least two posting as Peeps

the sig line changed when the second one arrived
and there were differences in style/personality/spelling:
aruban vs arubian, for example

aug 25 is when he posted the LvR van photo,
which followed my stressing the LvR angle really hard
in theory/speculation for a few days:

finngirl11: I really really wonder about the circle of friends. Diario is poring over the club/radio photo galleries. Van Zandt said he knew last week that girls of many nationalitites from multiple countries had begun coming forward re unfavorable encounters w/ JvdS, whose face is publicized worldwide. Nearly 2 months into the investigation it leaks out that some guy spent that night at JvdS' apt, a local posts that it was Max, Max is part of Lorenzo's alibi. Perhaps LvR & friends have good reason to keep LvR's face from the public eye, perhaps wouldn't be good for girls to recognize him from a previous encounter. Then again, Peeps said Max was one of his good friends & they have nothing to do w/ JvdS/K2 at any time, ever.

Another thing: when some of us question the intertwining family trees/friendships re gov't reps, attys, reporters, etc we're told it's a small island, no big deal that all these people are related or know each other. But when it comes to this group of kids/young men all of a sudden people don't know each other. Sooooo many locals have posted that LvR's property/vehicle/boat were searched & we have ZERO proof of that. Nah, this gives off a very unpleasant odor.

Peeps: Alright guys, I just found out a little detail: There are 2 Max's on the island. But....the difference lies in the last name: Max Arends - @20 years old. And associated with Joran. Max Arendsz - 26 years old. Owner of the Speed Shop and has no clue who Joran and his posse is. Somehow, the names got mixed up and misleading info spread like wild fire. Anyhow, back on topic.

but ... three weeks earlier we were very specific
re the two Max(s):

karen: thank you, peeps! just to be sure..we are talking about the maxito arendsz, who is in his 20's? i know there is also a max arends, could that be the one they meant? i REALLY appreciate you taking the time to answer.

Peeps: He's 26. The same as me. He's the same person. Maxito = Little Max in papiamento. A childhood name that got stuck till now. I just notified one of the detectives again about this piece, just in case some false accusations come up. Just taking precautions. If there are more questions I can ask [answer] them as far as I can. You can put a separate thread or something or email.

But.... I wanted to post in the other thread once more time. LOL

Checkme was a male and that's all I am saying at this point.  ::MonkeyHaHa::

Mum,

I moved the Checkme posts to that thread.  If there are more, you can add them...it's not locked.   ::MonkeyWink::

Ran across this:

 
CITIBANK N.A. 
 
Business address PUNTA BRABO Z/N, ORANJESTAD WEST 
Legal form  FOREIGN FORMED CORPORATION 
Name of the CITIBANK N.A. 
company/foundation/association:
Statutory seat  U.S.A. 
Date of 25 NOVEMBER 1969 
incorporation/commencement:
     
   
BOARD MEMBERS/AUTHORIZED PERSONS 
 
CROES, HENDRIK SEFERINO; 
Residing in  SEROE PITA 22, PARADERA, ARUBA 
Born in  ARUBA on 8 JANUARY 1942 
Nationality  DUTCH 
Position  PROXY 
Effective  10 DECEMBER 1996 
Authority  FULL 
   
DIANOUS DE, JUAN; 
Residing in  EDIF. CITYBANK PISO 1, CARMELITAS , ALTAGRACIA, CARACAS, VENEZUELA 
Born in  REP. OF PANAMA, PANAMA on 17 AUGUST 1945 
Nationality  PANAMANIAN 
Position  MANAGING DIRECTOR 
Effective  15 MAY 1996 
Authority  FULL 
   
OBJECTIVE(S) OF THE COMPANY 
 
A. TO EFFECT FINANCIAL OPERATIONS OF WHICH NATURE WHATSOEVER;

B. TO CONDUCT EXCHANGE AND COMMISSION ACTIVITIES;

C. TO ACQUIRE, HOLD, ADMINISTER, AND DISPOSE OF STOCKS AND OTHER VALUABLE PROPERTIES, COMMERCIAL PAPERS THEREBY INCLUDED, BE IT FOR ITS OWN ACCOUNT OR FOR THE ACCOUNT OF THIRD PARTIES;

D. TO EXTEND COMSUMERS'CREDITS, INDUSTRIAL CREDITS AND CONSTRUCTION CREDITS, AS WELL AS TO FINANCE IN ANY OTHER MANNER THE CONSTRUCTION AND ACQUISITION OF IMMOVABLE PROPERTIES;

E. THE CONDUCTING OF A SAVINGSBANK. 
   

and plays a musical instrument too?

Thanks 2NJSons...Just assumed it was locked as klaas locked the other reference threads...LOL

Found some more and posted them.

I am positive the photo you posted first with Freddy and Natasha is from the Bartender Contest at the Marriott Hotel, November 17, 2006. Pita found it at the time and posted it with the link which (of course  ) no longer works...

There were rumors about Steve Croes and Amy Bradley. IIRC, Amy's mother discounted those rumors...

******************************

I found that photograph this summer when we were doing some cross referencing of MySpace and Facebook acounts for Zedans and Chemalys in Venezuela.  The group shot was the bartenders contest that was in the newspaper.  I have no idea who located that article.  They couldn't have been taken at the same time because Natasha is wearing different clothes.  I think the picture of Freddy, Natasha, and the mystery man is an older picture, which is why it could be the father before he died in 2005.  The bartender contest was in 2006.

The 2008 article with the photo below is posted here: http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2886.msg396123#msg396123

2008 Bartender Contest:
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a398/vms58/winners.jpg)


********************


Pita posted the photo below in November 2006 at BFN: http://blogsfornatalee.com/forum/index.php?topic=5149.msg174777#msg174777
It came from the Bartender Contest at the Marriott Hotel, November 17, 2006 section in Magic 96.5's photo gallery.   

2006 Bartender Contest:
(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m153/CMPM/Freddy5.jpg)

I wasn't aware that Pita had previously located the photograph.  I discovered it in MySpace this past summer and posted it in the Arambatzis thread.  It wasn't my intention to ruffle feathers.  I was attempting to contribute to our forum.

I appreciate your contributions, SS. I won't say I'm positive about something unless I am certain. I try not to make assumptions or jump to conclusions easily. I like to know how we get from A to Z...

And I'm positive that the photograph came from Natasha Zedan's MySpace.

SS, it most likely was put on MySpace after it was posted in the photo gallery of the Magic 96.5 radio site. I found it the day after it was originally posted back in November 2006.   Hope this helps clear things up.   

LoRain: in depth/in context explanation of:
one witness is no witness

but ... don't forget that PvdS later forfeited
his first-degree family member immunity
(re testifying against his son)

pop quiz:
what big news was revealed on june 26th
as referred to below (and elsewhere by simian)?


Peter on June 25th, 2005 6:44 pm
What is this about body fluids that you’re all talking about??
I thought that DNA testing came up negative for what was found in the car . . . .

Simian on June 25th, 2005 6:47 pm
There are 3 vehicles.

Checkme on June 25th, 2005 6:51 pm
It has always been strange to me that nobody realizes that there have been hundreds of men on the island, americans, partying, adults, all after some booty and NH wondering around on the beach… Who said JvdS was the last to see her? He is the last one we know of…

There is no evidence against the vdSs.

edie on June 25th, 2005 6:52 pm
I did not realize they found body fluids. I thought that had just been a rumor.

Checkme on June 25th, 2005 6:53 pm
fluids were found in the kalpoe’s honda

Checkme on June 25th, 2005 6:55 pm
1. Karpoes car
2. vdS Jeep
3. vdS family car

Simian on June 25th, 2005 6:57 pm
The phone call made in the small hours.

edie on June 25th, 2005 6:58 pm
Wow, I did not realize it was in 3 cars. Does anyone know who gave that psychic reading?

Simian on June 25th, 2005 7:00 pm
The boy is biting his tongue. It is all chewed up, bloody and sore.

Checkme on June 25th, 2005 7:14 pm
And then the blue van…

kristin on June 25th, 2005 7:24 pm
So who is biting his tounge Simian, and about that blue graffiti van….was she in it or something?

Simian on June 25th, 2005 7:28 pm
The father is trapped in a legal check mate.

The boy is mutilating his own tongue. He doesn’t want to let the old man down.

Peter on June 25th, 2005 7:28 pm
So, what kind of ‘body fluids’? Blood?

edie on June 25th, 2005 7:29 pm
Someone said her body fluids, but I think they have said it was not blood

Peter on June 25th, 2005 7:32 pm
Then, if it wasn’t blood then what was it?
And was it confirmed that the ‘body fluid’ is Natalee’s?

edie on June 25th, 2005 7:33 pm
I don’t know…
It could be vaginal fluid. I do not know if that is even factual

Peter on June 25th, 2005 7:34 pm
That would mean she was in the car, AND co-operative. We already know she was in the car. Doesn’t really help much, or am I missing something??

Simian on June 25th, 2005 7:36 pm
In the other car.

Peter on June 25th, 2005 7:41 pm
If there was that MUCH body fluid due to expiration, then that would be cause to criminally charge these clowns, I would think. But who knows in Aruba.

Simian on June 25th, 2005 7:41 pm
Kalpoes went home. Joran stayed behind. Somebody had to come get him.

kristin on June 25th, 2005 7:42 pm
dad came to get him right simian, and they had natalee’s body with them?

Simian on June 25th, 2005 7:44 pm
Not even a confession will help.

One witness is not a witness.

The body is needed.

subdude on June 25th, 2005 7:47 pm
Simian:
The “one witness” comment. Is that accurate statement of Aruban law or your opinion on the chance of convicting based on single witness statement?

Simian on June 25th, 2005 7:50 pm
Only one piece is missing.

Around the pool the Hindus were told what to say. They did not know why. They were asked to protect the boy. The father was not there, but he knew what to do.

The Hindus thought the girl would reappear.

subdude on June 25th, 2005 7:50 pm
Simian:
Whose pool?

Checkme on June 25th, 2005 7:51 pm
Dad is family, by law he cannot incriminate a family menber as a witness… complicated

Checkme on June 25th, 2005 7:53 pm
gttg… cu ltr.

Simian on June 25th, 2005 7:54 pm
…unless the package from The Hague says that he is implicated. The evidence has him in a legal checkmate. He cannot deny.

Simian on June 25th, 2005 7:56 pm
…the boys met around the pool in Montanja.

scaredshitless on June 25th, 2005 7:56 pm
in other words if the forensics come back positive from Holland (THE HAGUE), he is screwed

Simian on June 25th, 2005 7:57 pm
Just got info the plane has arrived they are going to the courts

kristin on June 25th, 2005 7:58 pm
simian, do you think that Nat is alive?

I-Yell-Chris-In-Hallways on June 25th, 2005 7:59 pm
BTW I say my wife is huge and fat but she is really a man who has had a sex change. His name is Pety but now that we are married I call her Ingrid. She is so hot and kinky………..love ya dildo gal

Simian on June 25th, 2005 7:59 pm
The fires burned high and bright. Even Saint John denied he knew. The smoke will clear soon. The elder can’t deny. The son can’t talk. He is biting off his tongue. His sore and bloody tongue.

The hope rests on the cowboys finding their own.

scaredshitless on June 25th, 2005 8:01 pm
someone’s impersonating CHRIS (Hallway guy). He is an older man, very polite, would NEVER say that!

Simian on June 25th, 2005 8:01 pm
The Simian is leaving. There’s a doppelganger.

kristin on June 25th, 2005 8:06 pm
simian, what do you think of lorenzo having SOMETHING to do with this?????

edie on June 25th, 2005 8:06 pm
Who is Lorenzo?

Rachael on June 25th, 2005 8:06 pm
Kristen who is Lorenzo?

kristin on June 25th, 2005 8:06 pm
simian knows who he is. see if he’ll say

edie on June 25th, 2005 8:07 pm
So Simian has the inside info. How interesting.

subdude on June 25th, 2005 8:09 pm
Lorenzo = some talk about a fifth (at the time), now 6th after the arrest of Dad, person involved and to be arrested. Nothing has come of it yet. If not mistaken, Lorenzo allegedly owned a crazy-painted van or house and thought was NH may have been at his house at some point.

Yolande on June 25th, 2005 8:10 pm
How come it seems that four people can lie very well. Are they innocent? Or did they already confess and are police just waiting to find the body to be 100% sure?

edie on June 25th, 2005 8:11 pm
I don’t think for one minute they confessed.

subdude on June 25th, 2005 8:12 pm
Yolande: If you mean same story, Simian is telling us that the 2 Kalpoes and 2 VDS met around a pool in Montana to get stories straight. Whose house in Montana? I can check past articles to find out, if no one knows off top of head.

edie on June 25th, 2005 8:13 pm
I don’t know but simian has been saying that for days

Maya99 on June 25th, 2005 8:18 pm
Thanks Edie. The Hague is the European court in the Netherlands, Simian means we have an imposter again.

Thanks also Subdude.

Court was cancelled today, The judge from Curacua missed his plane??

Simian, have the forensics, the fluids, come back from The Hague?

subdude on June 25th, 2005 8:19 pm
Simian doesn’t seem to be saying anyone confessed to the murder. Just that it has come out there was a meeting around the pool to get the stories straight and Kalpoes did not know why the story needed to be told, but went along. Seems very naive of them, but VDS were influential, as I understand it.

Neither VDS told Kalpoes why the story so they did not become witnesses to VDS’ confession who could testify against VDS’ later on. Could only say truthfully that they were asked to lie and did so.

Even if VDS’ admit to disposing of body, does not prove murder — just that she died. VDS’ could say they don’t know how, just died and they got rid of body.

Without body, can’t prove cause of death. This is probably the “only one piece of puzzle missing” Simian is referring to.

Simian on June 25th, 2005 8:21 pm
The Simian knows the Babylonians. They need to plan the legal checkmate perfectly.

They know that the elder knows his way around the palace. All gates need to be shut.

The Hindus don’t know that the elder knows what happened. The though they did the boy a favor by protecting him. The Hindus don’t know what happened.

The cowboys gave themselves 10 days. One down.

subdude on June 25th, 2005 8:24 pm
If Simian is accurate, this was a clever legal scheme to avoid prosecution by PVDS and protect his son from same. Does anyone know if Aruban law provides 100% inter-family testimonial immunity? In US, most states have similar inter-spousal immunity. Spouse can not be compelled to testify against spouse. However, spouse can chose to testify against spouse. This is probably why police are leanding hard on JVDS
PVDS would know all of this as a judge in training.

edie on June 25th, 2005 8:25 pm
Almost the perfect crime?

subdude on June 25th, 2005 8:26 pm
Edie: The “Hindus” are the Kalpoes from Surinam and practice Hindu religion, I believe. Mrs Kalpoe made reference to Hindu altar in her home on Greta interview.

Aruban police are trying to get around PVDS mastermind scheme to avoid prosecution and have son do same by hiding behind the privilege of not being able to be compelled to testify against another family member.

But, per Simian, there is a wrinkle.

Simian on June 25th, 2005 8:37 pm
What does the music man know? He was seen. He was mentioned by the boy.

subdude on June 25th, 2005 8:37 pm
Simian: Last clue re: Babylonians was your best so far. Babylonian culture is known for Hammurabi, among other things. He was the sixth king of this dynasty was Hammurabi (1792-1750 BC) who made Babylon the capital of a vast empire and is best remembered for his code of laws. (Ask Jeeves)

Simian’s Babylonians (sounds nice, huh?) are the Aruban authorities. PVDS knows his way “around the palace” of law, so the Aruban police have to set him up to get around the freedom from testifying between JVDS and PVDS.

Well done, Simiam. Had to look up the Babylonian reference.

Simian on June 25th, 2005 8:41 pm
The boy is biting off his own tongue. The Babylonians are stunned. What possesses such a boy?

Most federales have left. The puzzle is nearly done. The one piece is missing. They need the cowboys help.

subdude on June 25th, 2005 8:44 pm
Simian: Music man = Croes, the D-jay. You are good.

Seems under Dutch law, a confession from extensive interrogation (10+ hours per day, sometimes) is admissible. In states, we would try to have kept out of evidence as involuntary. Could confession from interrogation only (no beating), from JVDS, for instance, be used against him and PVDS?

kristin on June 25th, 2005 8:45 pm
what posessed such a boy (a boy who has everything and can have anything he wants) to actually kill an innocent female????

kristin on June 25th, 2005 8:46 pm
the music man knows where her body is

edie on June 25th, 2005 8:46 pm
What does biting off his tongue mean? Wanting to talk, but trying to keep quiet

subdude on June 25th, 2005 8:49 pm
kristin:
I think he probably drugged and raped her, she came up out of the drug and threatened to turn him in. Kill her or face prosecution and disgrace family, ruin Dad’s chance of judgeship.

subdude on June 25th, 2005 8:51 pm
kristin:
Yes, maybe not off, but chomping on it to mutilate it.
BTW, I am being a board hog, so I’ll cool it.

edie on June 25th, 2005 8:53 pm
No, I like knowing what is going on. I would not know if it wasnt for simian and you subdude

subdude on June 25th, 2005 8:55 pm
Cowboys are the search team from Texas. For non US, Texas is famous state for cowboys. In fact, one of their pro football teams is named Cowboys. Simian’s good.

Simian on June 25th, 2005 8:57 pm
The Babylonians might release the Hindus.

The boy knows his father knows the way. He’s been inside the palace for many years. It has worked before. This time too much is at stake. This time there was someone there to hear the tree fall.

The music man is singing. The Simian can’t understand the words.

A bloody tongue is a bloody tongue. Swollen and thick. This boy is lost.

kristin on June 25th, 2005 9:00 pm
so this is the REAL reason as to why the texans were called in. because the know her body is in the ocean. they knew for a long time. beth knew, everyone knew.

ShocktheMonkey on June 25th, 2005 9:08 pm
To my faithful believers:
This may be my last post. But I’ll tell you what’s going on. The younger VDS did it. No admission of guilt yet, but witnesses to prove. Awaiting DNA results to confirm will be soon. Two more possible arrests. DJ was the “Vessel”. Sorry for cryptic message, but my job is on the line. Still I remain true to you bloggers and the truth shall set us free. A mystery is only as mysterious as the mind allows it to be. Sometimes the truth is right in front of your face …

DanMar on June 25th, 2005 9:09 pm
The ape who is a wolf is here to disinform.

subdude on June 25th, 2005 9:12 pm
Shock: Thanks . . . well, you know what I mean:) Same thing Simian seems to be saying.

edie on June 25th, 2005 9:12 pm
How long before the dna results are back?

edie on June 25th, 2005 9:13 pm
I wonder what the dna evidence is. Body fluids?

ShocktheMonkey on June 25th, 2005 9:14 pm
If you’ve seen the evidence and live here, you would draw the same conclusions …

Simian on June 25th, 2005 9:16 PM
The new hammer and block could not island hop. The Babylonians can’t keep the gates shut forever. The days are 116 and they each have a number.
 
The Babylonians can’t use the whip on the boy. A[n] elder is playing mute. If he doesn’t know, why did he heed the call?

The music man is singing. His song is not on the bill. One witness is not a witness.

ShocktheMonkey on June 25th, 2005 9:16 pm
could arrive with new judge… plane was delayed… may have been the reason … hand delivering the DNA results …

subdude on June 25th, 2005 9:19 pm
Simian: Can’t prove murder without a body unless you have two corroborating statements, right?

ShocktheMonkey on June 25th, 2005 9:19 pm
Sim, you working tonight?

DanMar on June 25th, 2005 9:22 pm
o what tangled webs we weave. a trojan horse has left smoke and mirrors.

kristin on June 25th, 2005 9:23 pm
i just heard a police cheif and friend of PVDS is involved and will be arrested? simian? shock?

ShocktheMonkey on June 25th, 2005 9:23 pm
who’s to say there was a trojan horse? There are other forms …

ShocktheMonkey on June 25th, 2005 9:24 pm
kristin .. i can not comment. But I told you two more arrests.

subdude on June 25th, 2005 9:24 pm
Edie:
Without two witnesses saying same thing, can’t prove murder unless have the body. “One witness is not a witness”. Not sure if this is accurate legal statement, but I think this is what “Monkeys” mean.

Simian on June 25th, 2005 9:26 pm
The Babylonians gave free reign to the cowboys for a reason.

ShocktheMonkey on June 25th, 2005 9:27 pm
The one with the longest legs begs …

kristin on June 25th, 2005 9:27 pm
do the birmingham parents know? do they know this shock?

DanMar on June 25th, 2005 9:28 pm
the scorned ones have won the prize. details at eleven.

edie on June 25th, 2005 9:29 pm
So a police officer is in on this.

DanMar on June 25th, 2005 9:29 pm
monkeys no

subdude on June 25th, 2005 9:29 pm
Guys, Croes has given it up and told he knows about the murder and body dump. One witness is not enough. The police need a second witness or the body. Lorenzo or police chief would be enough or the body. Body is always better and police don’t know if either of these new witnesses will confirm Croes. I think this is what is up.

ShocktheMonkey on June 25th, 2005 9:29 pm
have you noticed you haven’t seen Mrs. Twitty lately? The last time you did, did you notice her sorrow? That should answer your question Kristin.

edie on June 25th, 2005 9:29 pm
they are getting out @11?

Simian on June 25th, 2005 9:32 pm
The Babylonians hands are not dirty.

subdude on June 25th, 2005 9:33 pm
edie:
Details @ 11 means watch the news. JVDS confessed. The “scorned ones” are the Aruban authorities who have been so heavily criticized for the investigation. I’d be having fun if I weren’t so damn sad:(

subdude on June 25th, 2005 9:34 pm
DanMar: In Aruba?

DanMar on June 25th, 2005 9:35 pm
iowa, i just work in outer space

chimes on June 25th, 2005 9:36 pm
Those with the noses, you know who you are, thank you for all the translations. The recent OTR interviews with Mama VDS and Mama Kalpoe offered much insight. Remember, one of the Kalpoe brother’s stated “something bad happened.”

ShocktheMonkey on June 25th, 2005 9:40 pm
Yes, something bad did happened. But it was an accident, it wasn’t meant to happen … as it did not happen on the beach as assumed, rather, it was in a house.

Peter on June 25th, 2005 9:44 pm
ShocktheMonkey,
How do you know she died in a house??

My wife said the same thing to me last night, and she thinks it actually happened in Joran’s apartment off the side of the Van Der Sloot house.

Simian on June 25th, 2005 9:46 pm
The Hindus are not completely clean, but the Babylonians need them.

The are only so many halls in the palace. The gates are shutting down, but they need to be kept shut.

Checkmate is in place, but the game is not over yet.

Lily on June 25th, 2005 9:48 pm
???????????????????????????????????????????
Ok, anybody can claim to be psychic, I could claim to be psychic because I’m a very intuitive person. This is a really draining situation that needs to be solve. If I were Natalee’s family I would be digging the Aruban gov’t some holes for the simple fact, if they’ve known this all along, and tried to cover this up, it’s the perfect plan, I wonder how long it takes a body to completely decay?? Or do they know that the body was dumped in the ocean and are trying to give it time so it just can’t be found????????????

ShocktheMonkey on June 25th, 2005 9:48 pm
A substance was given to victim without knowledge. Substance served purpose … victim came to … suspect panics .. in an attempt to quiet victim, “something bad happens”

ShocktheMonkey on June 25th, 2005 9:52 pm
Lily we are working 24 hrs to bring this to a resolution.

kristin on June 25th, 2005 9:53 pm
this explains why greta went home for a few days, why nat’s mom hasn’t been seen (prob in hotel room balling her eyes out) and why rescue team is there.

one more thing, how was this pre-meditated? and did they plan this BEFORE nat even came to aruba…knowing she was from a rich family and all that, or no? shock?

Simian on June 25th, 2005 9:55 pm
Some alibis need to be broken.

ShocktheMonkey on June 25th, 2005 9:59 pm
No that’s not what it means Kristin. Premeditated requires planning. This was an accident perpetuated by a mallace act. It’s what happened after, that was premeditated …

subdude on June 25th, 2005 10:01 pm
DanMar: federales?

DanMar on June 25th, 2005 10:02 pm
monkees r monkees - no more

subdude on June 25th, 2005 10:03 pm
Capiche

subdude on June 25th, 2005 10:04 pm
Et tu, Mr. Mar

Simian on June 25th, 2005 10:06 pm
There is [a] whisperer on the line. The sword of Damocles will soon fall. I can’t say whose on the throne.

Did he think he could rule forever from his hideaway?

All along the gamblers knew who he was.

chimes on June 25th, 2005 10:11 pm
Damocles: Greek courtier to Dionysius the Elder, tyrant of Syracuse, who according to legend was forced to sit at a banquet table under a sword suspended by a single hair to demonstrate the precariousness of a king’s fortunes.

Simian on June 25th, 2005 10:14 pm
The Babylonians cared only for their gold and did not hear the Sumerians plot their demise. In the morning, at the point it was realized, it was too late.

edie on June 25th, 2005 10:16 pm
ok sub elaborate for us.

Simian on June 25th, 2005 10:16 pm
Again, the Simian has a doppelganger.

Can’t compromise the whisperer on the line.

Signing off.

Kristin-in-SC on June 25th, 2005 10:18 pm
Sounds like to me that Simian has someone feeding him/her live info. Is Simian a member of the LE there??

Lily on June 25th, 2005 10:19 pm
I believe it’s a tap on his computer, and with the information being given out he has to get off before they can track him.

DanMar on June 25th, 2005 10:22 pm
the primate is my reflection

edie on June 25th, 2005 10:26 pm
Does anyone know if we will still get the info @11

Simian on June 25th, 2005 10:28 pm
The Simian is sorry, but as long as there are impersonators there will be no more clues.

subdude on June 25th, 2005 10:33 pm
edie:
This one’s more difficult, but I think he means that the Aruban police chief (Babylonians) cared only for the possible effect the NH incident would have on tourism and local economy. Sword of Damocles reference is sense of impending doom in one with power, police chief perhaps.

Did he think he could rule forever from hideaway, all gamblers knew who he was — I’m thinking again police chief or even Prime Minister.

edie on June 25th, 2005 10:48 pm
I am still waiting to see if there will be new info @11 simian shock?

ShocktheMonkey on June 25th, 2005 11:01 pm
edie … it’s a rumor… no arrests at 11

ShocktheMonkey on June 25th, 2005 11:04 pm
New news comes to those who wait … Be patient!

ShocktheMonkey on June 25th, 2005 11:12 pm
Tomorrow, we’re searching the waters …

Ragalee on June 25th, 2005 11:14 pm
Ok, I know this is going to get on everyone’s nerves b/c I am sure it has been explained before. so sorry in advance…. Shock, who are you? Why do you know so much? What do you mean by “we” are searching the waters? What am I missing?

ShocktheMonkey on June 25th, 2005 11:18 pm
I am on the island and am involved in the matter (which I can not disclose how I am involved). I am blogging to keep you informed as this case has captured the world.

Ragalee on June 25th, 2005 11:23 pm
So….does everyone expect to hear new information say…on Monday? Or sooner?

ShocktheMonkey on June 25th, 2005 11:25 pm
You will wake up with news tomorrow morning … can’t elaborate, so please don’t ask.

T K on June 25th, 2005 11:26 pm
And if we wake up to no factual news tomorrow what will be your comments then “Shock”?

ShocktheMonkey on June 25th, 2005 11:27 pm
It won’t happen T K.

ShocktheMonkey on June 25th, 2005 11:32 pm
If you need clarification or confirmation, I was the one who told in crypt that “DADDY VDS” would be arrested by simply stating “the PIMPle is about to pop”…

ShocktheMonkey on June 25th, 2005 11:39 pm
Let me go prepare for your morning news ….. Good night all!

Ragalee on June 25th, 2005 11:40 pm
Shock, after it is all over, will you reveal your identity and position?

subdude on June 25th, 2005 11:40 pm
I think Shock is in the news biz and has confidential sources. “Just doing my job”

ShocktheMonkey on June 25th, 2005 11:44 pm
Ragalee:
No
Sub:
No

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2005/06/25/natalee-holloway-saturday-june-25/#comments

I just want to know, will her body EVER be found?

JMO...I don't believe so...People disappear for ever down there...

And I don't think anyone will ever be prosecuted or we will ever have answers as to what happened that night.

We all have theories...I sure hope I am wrong about all of the above...

ShocktheMonkey on June 25th, 2005 11:32 pm
If you need clarification or confirmation, I was the one who told in crypt that “DADDY VDS” would be arrested by simply stating “the PIMPle is about to pop”…

all here-in Shango:

Some elders of the game, not just of babylon (arawak, too!) walk in older circles

the game pg 4:     http://www.ca11.uscourts.gov/opinions/ops/200214306.pdf

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:53 pm
The Tribe knows all of the players, even the elders of the inner circle
(lions which play)

the catch hand, pg. 18
The fallen judge and the singing card are of the same hand, but it is dangerous for the Arawaks to play it, because everyone would hear, including the cowboys

pg 15: executives in a juvenile female prostitution enterprise
Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:49 pm
The maze offers many hidden desires (maze difficult for supposed guilty)
deflowerings of forbidden fruits
DirtyHand knows.
So does the elder. (fallen judge!)


pg 22: rules of "the game"

pg 7: dirty hand (Arawaks often go to play in the small houses of babylon with offspring of the elders):

Jossy Mansur always went on to say the following:

We think that the police moved in on him and others partially because they are mad for what happened to one of their cars that was taken by an anti-social and then burned somewhere near Santa Cruz. The culprit has since been arrested.




Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 2:37 pm
It’s horrible. He is a sociopath.

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 2:50 pm
This is bad. Really bad…He has a history of making himself be something he is not.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:01 pm
Arawaks often go to play in small houses of Babylon with the offspring of the Elders

Bringing this over from the main thread because there maybe similarities to Natalee's disappearance (or so says codetalkers):

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=3437.760



Simian Says: June 25th, 2005 at 7:44 pm
Not even a confession will help. One witness is not a witness. The body is needed.

Simian Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:37 am
Her decapitated body to be found. Her head to wash up on shore later.

Joran's June 13, 2005 PV: To my question where the girl was buried then, he answered:

“I think that it was buried then next to the wall of the Fisherman's Hut, for the rest I would not know either.”  During the conversation Joran showed differing emotions. Sometimes he cried, sometimes he was direct in his answers.

What is the "IT" Joran is referring to in his PV? The Head? What is the "THE REST" Joran is referring to in his PV? The Body?

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:48 pm
The boy told the Hindus that he didn’t need their help anymore. This was in the small hours. The confrontation was brutal. So who heeded his call? Who switched places? People…the bloodied, swollen tongue. The boy’s fear runs deep. They accuse him to be Bifrons.

Joran to Kalpoes: "If they find the girl, then they will see the sh*t".  So what is the sh*t they will see? The state that her body is in with missing parts? A give away of who may have done this crime?

Merian 7/14/05 12:12 pm
Third act is set to play. The rotten package from The Hague is screaming to be heard. Do not sell your hard earned opinions. It might be time to eat your words.

Rotton package could be a decapitated head. "Screaming to be heard" could imply a head/mouth which would be part of a body which could incriminate Joran. But the package was never brought back from the Hague. Is this the evidence K Jansen personally escorted over to the Hague?

Both cases reek of the same alien influence/invasion on both Aruab and Bonnaire IMHO. Beth wanted to speak with Marlies' parents.

Thank you hon for answering my question :) BUT I did find this,    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bl-nDgORN7A

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 8:27 pm
DirtyHand and the fallen judge may not be crucified
the gods are talking


Note to self: check to make sure that all Aruban traffic tickets are paid......

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 8:27 pm
DirtyHand and the fallen judge may not be crucified. 
The gods are talking  


So who are "The gods" who hold such high positions as to decide if DirtyHand and the fallen judge are to be crucified?

Hmmm!...J2Ps...Brandy...Sorry...I didn't buy all of that. They weren't on the beach, not how the video says, anyway! Holiday Inn, villa at the Racquet Club or possibly the van der Sloot's house...JMO

Poochy...Need to check back, but I thought we found that Karen Jansen never went to the Netherlands until 7/20 or 7/21.

The Gods are talking...

Shango is a God...Who is he talking to?

Shango Says:June 26th, 2005 at 10:48 pm
Coverups begin with elders and the founders of the houses of Babylon
Not the minions
DirtyHand (minion) knows this

Seek ye DirtyHand and the Fetid Arawak King who wishes to blame the babylonians (J2K) for the behaviour of lowly minions (PVDS, DH).

gods=surveillance

lesser gods listen

the listener is not the sinner (listens to sinners)

context :::sigh:::

the FP posters are bitching about spelling,
older generation vs younger generation ...
I'll skip all that

there are many "imposter" posts
that appear under various nics, not just sim's ...
but they're very vulgar
so I'm skipping over those as well

then simian directs the conversation:

Simian on June 24th, 2005 2:34 pm
It is very hectic around the water reservoirs in Noord.

Kris on June 24th, 2005 2:35 pm
Simian,
Is that where the Texas team is searching??

Simian on June 24th, 2005 2:36 pm
Not the Texas team.

Simian on June 24th, 2005 2:37 pm
It’s horrible. He is a sociopath.

Kris on June 24th, 2005 2:39 pm
Simian,
Who is searching there?? and who is a sociopath?

Jake on June 24th, 2005 2:39 pm
Sim-who is a sociopath?

crs on June 24th, 2005 2:40 pm
Sim - Paul is a sociopath or the fifth suspect you have spoken of?

Jake on June 24th, 2005 2:42 pm
Isn’t the fifth suspect the dad? You mean the 6th suspect. There are now 5 people in jail.

Simian on June 24th, 2005 2:44 pm
Killing his own dogs. Dumping them in the reservoir. Harrassing his schoolmates.

Hopefloats on June 24th, 2005 2:45 pm
Hey Sim…what did youmean earlier when you said “something rotten was found in the Hague?” or did I miss your answer when we changed pages? Did they find something with the forensics investigation?

pktbk on June 24th, 2005 2:46 pm
sim-*gasp* oh my goodness!!!!!!!!!! i can see that! oh my goodness!
they are going to find more there than just nat evidence.

Pam on June 24th, 2005 2:48 pm
You often hear of sociopaths that kill people having a history of killing animals first.

Dutch on Aruba on June 24th, 2005 2:49 pm
Yeah Simian, what was found in The Hague?

Simian on June 24th, 2005 2:50 pm
This is bad. Really bad…He has a history of making himself be something he is not.

Kris on June 24th, 2005 2:52 pm
Simian–Who is doing that to dogs, etc. What is going on and Who is searching? FBI, Arubian authorities?

Pam on June 24th, 2005 2:52 pm
Simian- something he is not? Like what?

pktbk on June 24th, 2005 2:54 pm
most serial killers have a history of killing and torturing animals. he’s been portraying himself to be this wholesome kid, but it turned in to pimp (that was on his website) king.

Kris on June 24th, 2005 3:01 pm
What happened to Meg and Simian and Shock and all of our “contacts” on the island??

Big Pappy on June 24th, 2005 3:03 pm
I’ll never live this Shock thing down, my only blog claim to fame, I ran one of the insiders out!!!!

******* on June 24th, 2005 3:06 pm
I’m sure all the women on here have plenty of good looks and brains. 30-Md area here too. Where in Md are you Heather?

pktbk on June 24th, 2005 3:08 pm
so the dogs are searching water resevoirs and they are going to find animal carcasses because one of the boys (i’m going to say joran) has a secret history of hurting animals and bullying kids at school. that’s deep.

Simian on June 24th, 2005 3:05 pm
Dutch the west coast is busy…however, that road between the bushes is very hidden. Have taken girls there myself, but in cars. If you are on foot it would be so easy to hide in the mangroves. The fishermen’s huts. There are no streetlights there.

How come the “Black Team” was not aware is beyond me. They are all over in that area. At least they used to be.

Kris on June 24th, 2005 3:06 pm
Simian,
WELCOME BACK!!! We’ve all been here drinking and waiting to hear from you. What is the Black Team?

pktbk on June 24th, 2005 3:08 pm
so the dogs are searching water resevoirs and they are going to find animal carcasses because one of the boys (i’m going to say joran) has a secret history of hurting animals and bullying kids at school. that’s deep.

Kris on June 24th, 2005 3:10 pm
PK–do you think that they will find anything else there? I am thinking back to checkme and our going over the blue van and the speaker still.

I really believe that NH is still alive and was transported, by SC in the van after a call from Daddy VDS

Simian on June 24th, 2005 3:12 pm
The Black Team is a special force in Aruba that patrols amongst others beaches. Fully armed to the teeth, in black, with black hoods, with black SUV’s and ATV’s.

Kris on June 24th, 2005 3:13 pm
Simian,
I thought you left us again. Are they the ones searching the resevoir?

Simian on June 24th, 2005 3:16 pm
The water reservoir in Noord is very busy. The boy is not right. There is so much stuff on him. I don’t know what I should relay to you people. I fear the worst.

The Texans don’t know where to start.

Kris on June 24th, 2005 3:17 pm
Simian,
Please just give us whatever you can.

Simian on June 24th, 2005 3:17 pm
All evidence collected was sent to the The Hague.

crs on June 24th, 2005 3:17 pm
Sim - when you speak of this boy I think everyone thinks you are talking about Joran but your not are you - you are talking about this other individual.

Jake on June 24th, 2005 3:17 pm
Sim-it sounds to me that now you think Joran is guilty! Is that what the little green people are telling you?

heatherey on June 24th, 2005 3:20 pm
Man! Can someone get SHOCK back here? Anyone hear from him?

pktbk on June 24th, 2005 3:20 pm
the guy with the van is the one that has a horrible past.

pktbk on June 24th, 2005 3:21 pm
heather-not since this morning….

Big Pappy on June 24th, 2005 3:22 pm
Simian, you’re freaking me out now, alot of us think the boy ain’t right but what are you saying? So much stuff on him? History we don’t know about?

Praying on June 24th, 2005 3:23 pm
Could someone please give a briefing on the guy with the van. I was trying to figure out what everyone was talking about on the last page, and never did “get the news” on this.

crs on June 24th, 2005 3:23 pm
pktbk - are you sure? Is this guy with the van Croes? i have gotten a little confused Kris started making martinis and i am drunk.

Pam on June 24th, 2005 3:25 pm
Sim - when you said the younger one, did you mean Joran, or someone else?

Kris on June 24th, 2005 3:25 pm
PK–isn’t that the DJ??

pktbk on June 24th, 2005 3:26 pm
i didn’t know exactly who owned the blue van that checkme would often refer to. but now we know it is lorenzo something or other. checkme would talk about the blue van with big speakers. you can hide stuff behind those speakers. like drug smuggling and the like. so maybe this guy is a serial killer that no one knew about obviously, and that’s the way he would transport his victims….possibly to the water where he dumped all the animals he killed.

crs on June 24th, 2005 3:27 pm
pktbk - thanks for clearing that up.

Kris on June 24th, 2005 3:27 pm
Sim–Please clarify for us who you are talking about

Kris on June 24th, 2005 3:29 pm
Thanks PK

Can someone clear up the rumor that Lorenzo is the 1/2 brother of Joran? Same dad different moms. Anyone?

Big Pappy on June 24th, 2005 3:29 pm
Arrrrrrrgggggggggg, this weight of what I’ve done to SHOCK is too much to bear!

Simian on June 24th, 2005 3:31 pm
The father was confronted with evidence. Can’t confirm if it’s from the cars or the house. They needed this to make him talk.

Simian on June 24th, 2005 3:36 pm
Joran and The Kalpoes are at the Main Police Office right now…Something is going down right now!!!

pktbk on June 24th, 2005 3:37 pm
so sim-the equu team doesn’t know where to start?

Kris on June 24th, 2005 3:38 pm
SIM- Why are they there? Are they being released?

pktbk on June 24th, 2005 3:39 pm
sim-for real?

vanessa-where are you?!

shock-where are you?

checkme-where are you?

what if they have all been hauled in with the kalpoe brothers?

Rachael on June 24th, 2005 3:39 pm
SIM, where did you get your info about Joran and the brothers?

Kerri on June 24th, 2005 3:42 pm
What is going on? Why are the at the police station? does anyone know?

Rachael on June 24th, 2005 3:42 pm
SIM FILL US IN PLEASE

VANESSA on June 24th, 2005 3:45 pm
could they possibly be getting the five together now, like they did with the three earlier in the week??? maybe VDS Sr. has given some info and now it’s time to get the truth out….or maybe daddy vds has plea bargained!!!!!!!!

pktbk on June 24th, 2005 3:48 pm
VANESSA- you could be on to something with the getting them together thing! who’s going to point that finger at him? they don’t have plea bargains there, so we are screwed.

Simian on June 24th, 2005 3:48 pm
They are in for more interrogation.

Simian on June 24th, 2005 3:51 pm
There is no plea bargaining in the Aruban legal system.

Simian on June 24th, 2005 3:54 pm
I can confirm they are there. The 3 of them. Remember the Kalpoes know nothing they were informed aournd the pool deck by Joran.

Based on my knowledge they will be confronted. A set up for the behaviour specialists?

Hopefloats on June 24th, 2005 3:54 pm
I was reading back over some the posts on the front page and this was there:
 
UPDATE: 12:15am EDT
Tonight on CNN’s Larry King, Prosecutors office spokesperson, Mariane Croes, said the following:

“Paulus Van der Sloot was arrested on the suspicion of premeditated murder”
All of the suspects in custody were arrested with the same charge.

Was this actually said on the news and was it confirmed? If so that means they had it planned all along and they new Natalee was the girl they were gonna kidnap and do whatever with? That means that dad picking up Jvds from McDonalds was all part of setting an alibi? If thats the case there could very well be more people involved and arrested because there’s no telling what they planned on doing with her. Not giving up the other people that were also going to be involved when they got her to said destination. And for thoughts …if they gave her a drug to make it easier to get her to go along with them.. too much was put in her drink and that is the “something bad that happened”

crs on June 24th, 2005 3:56 pm
Sim - I think the Kalpoes are involved or they would have spilled the beans three weeks ago.

Kerri on June 24th, 2005 3:59 pm
What is the pool deck thing? I’ve never heard of that before.

Jake on June 24th, 2005 3:59 pm
NEWS ALERT: Paulus was arrested under pre-meditated murder suspicion.

crs on June 24th, 2005 4:00 pm
There was a rumour that Joran and the Kalpoe boys met at Joran’s house by the pool and discussed NH.

Simian on June 24th, 2005 4:02 pm
The Kalpoes have nothing to spill. They don’t what the father did. Only Joran knows why he called his Dad in the middle of the night.

Simian on June 24th, 2005 4:03 pm
crs - You know that is not a rumour.

Hopefloats on June 24th, 2005 4:03 pm
So are the Kalpoes gonna walk even though they have lied from the beginning as well?

crs on June 24th, 2005 4:04 pm
Sim - that is where we disagree - i think the Kalpoes are at the heart of this. They would not have lied for Joran and why would they still be held at this point if they knew nothing. That does not make sense.

Kris on June 24th, 2005 4:05 pm
CNN is saying that the sonar and dogs from Texas will be there tonight, some are already there searching

Simian on June 24th, 2005 4:05 pm
I am leaving…the inside is turning out. Something will go down in a few minutes.

Kris on June 24th, 2005 4:06 pm
Simian, Don’t go. you are the only connection we have to what is going on down there.

edie on June 24th, 2005 4:07 pm
Hi everyone I'm back, any new news?

Kris on June 24th, 2005 4:08 pm
Edie,
Welcome back. No real news. Simian said that the 3 boys were back in the station–no idea why and then I think he left.

Jake on June 24th, 2005 4:11 pm
NEWS ALERT: Joran is being charged as accomplice of accesory to murder.

edie on June 24th, 2005 4:13 pm
Jake-
where did you see this?

Kris on June 24th, 2005 4:13 pm
Jake,
Where did you get that? And who actually murdered her? If that is the case

pktbk on June 24th, 2005 4:15 pm
where the heck have shock and checkme been all friggin’ day?

Kris on June 24th, 2005 4:17 pm
PK-so you still haven’t gotten an email from Shock?
It is weird that checkme hasn’t been around.
I wonder what is really going on down there?

Simian on June 24th, 2005 4:18 pm
BREAKING NEWS: Charges have been made against Joran. MURDER by Drug. Father tried to cover up and will be charged soon.

This is huge.

Jake on June 24th, 2005 4:19 pm
I saw it now on FOX NEWS. Paulus is being charged with pre-meditated murder, and Joran as an accomplice. That is what the news is saying. It doesn’t make sense to me, but maybe it’s a way of telling father and son that this is what they will be charged with unless they tell the truth!

edie on June 24th, 2005 4:19 pm
Simian are you serious?

jacqueline on June 24th, 2005 4:21 pm
Is this for real, Simian?

Kris on June 24th, 2005 4:21 pm
Simian–I knew you would be back. Thanks.

PK-Maybe they are not around because of the charges being filed, OMG!!

Simian on June 24th, 2005 4:21 pm
Yes!!!!!!!!

Simian on June 24th, 2005 4:22 pm
Im serious - im down here in aruba right now

crs on June 24th, 2005 4:22 pm
Kris - I am not sure that is the real simian.

Kris on June 24th, 2005 4:22 pm
Jake,
Are they saying anything about Joran being charged with murder?

Mike on June 24th, 2005 4:23 pm
The prosecutor said they were being held as suspect of premeditated murder, they have NOT been charged, please folks, get the facts straight!

jacqueline on June 24th, 2005 4:23 pm
Wow something major always seems to be announced this time of day.

Rachael on June 24th, 2005 4:23 pm
YEAH SIM YOU ARE BACK! WHERE ARE YOU GETTING YOUR INFO?

DFW Guy on June 24th, 2005 4:23 pm
Simian,
Why would the Father be charged with murder and Joran the accomplice? Shouldn’t it be the other way around?

crs on June 24th, 2005 4:24 pm
Scratch that, it is the real Simian. He confirmed it.

Rachael on June 24th, 2005 4:25 pm
SIM WHAT PART OF ARUBA ARE YOU IN?

Hopefloats on June 24th, 2005 4:25 pm
I didnt say anything about being charged for premaditated murder! I asked if they were taking in on suspicion of this then they had it planned all along if found guilty!! I got my facts straight! I was giving a scenario of how they could be guilty of this

Simian on June 24th, 2005 4:26 pm
Joran was charged with murder not father.

Kris on June 24th, 2005 4:26 pm
Simian,
Ok so Joran gave NH a drug it went bad, and then daddy helped cover it up. Do I have this right?

Jake on June 24th, 2005 4:27 pm
crs-we have some imposters messing around!

Simian on June 24th, 2005 4:27 pm
Joran raped and killed NH. Father helped bury her in their back yard.

Rachael on June 24th, 2005 4:27 pm
WHERE IS SHE AT IF SHE WAS MURDERED?

DFW Guy on June 24th, 2005 4:27 pm
Simian, what proof do they have. I hope they will take them to the body. Can they get a lesser sentence if they cooperate?

Kris on June 24th, 2005 4:29 pm
Simian–OMG!!! ARE YOU SERIOUS!!! Is that why the house was “confiscated”? Have they found her?

Rachael on June 24th, 2005 4:29 pm
I DON’T BELIEVE YOU SIMIAN GET OUT OF THIS CHAT IF YOU ARE GOING TO LIE,
TOM HELP!

DFW Guy on June 24th, 2005 4:29 pm
Simian, BACK YARD? Where did you get this info? Don't pull our leg on this please!

Simian on June 24th, 2005 4:29 pm
They confiscated the home earlier today and found her hand sticking up through some dirt. She was buried alive.

Simian on June 24th, 2005 4:30 pm
The real Simian would never write like that.

The waters are low. The carcasses are coming to the surface. The stench will be unbearable.

The boys are facing each other. Tonight is a night of fire on the island. Fire everywhere. The smoke will clear in the morning.

Rachael on June 24th, 2005 4:30 pm
DON’T BELIEVE SIMIAN UNTIL WE SEE IT FOR SURE!

Simian on June 24th, 2005 4:30 pm
Someone is now posting as me. I did not post that joran raped her or that they buried her. News out on the islands says they dumped her somewhere in the ocean. Will probably be really hard to find the body.

edie on June 24th, 2005 4:30 pm
I am watching fox news and there is no new alert.

Jake on June 24th, 2005 4:31 pm
I have not heard that the body was found..That is not true. The charges are being filed against the father and son like I stated before, NO BODY. I doubt they would bury her in their backyard.

AllyinMiami on June 24th, 2005 4:35 pm
Hello, everyone! CRS, anything new today.?..so i dont have to scroll through everything. Has anyone spoken to checkme?

Jake on June 24th, 2005 4:37 pm
Rachael: I agree. It’s hard when you have people impersonating you. The news I gave is what’s being said on the news. The father and son are being charged. NO BODY has been found. I don’t know if they confessed.

Hopefloats on June 24th, 2005 4:38 pm
what news station Jake?

******* on June 24th, 2005 4:39 pm
So if the news in Aruba is that they dumped her body in the water, regardless of which of the 5 in custody did it, one of them killed her and the others knew about it. Allright, case closed. What’s the next mystery to solve.

******* on June 24th, 2005 4:42 pm
THE FOLLOWING IS POSTED ON THE FOX WEBSITE: Those of you who thought the VDS family was innocent, or thought she was kidnapped and sent to South America, what’s your rebuttal?

“Joran van der Sloot and his friends Deepak and Satish Kalpoe are being held under suspicion of murder and kidnapping as well as being an accessory to murder. A fourth man, Steve Croes, is being held under the same conditions.

The fifth man, Paul van der Sloot — the father of 17-year-old Joran — was being held on suspicion of complicity to pre-meditated murder, complicity to kidnapping and murder and kidnapping. Under the Aruban system, complicity is a lesser charge.

None of the men have been charged with a crime. But all are in police custody."

Simian on June 24th, 2005 4:42 pm
The hour is getting late. There is a lot of unrest. No confession. The package from The Hague is the key.

AllyinMiami on June 24th, 2005 4:45 pm
TOM AND RED—PLEASE FIX THESE THREADS AND MONITOR THESE PEOPLE

Simian on June 24th, 2005 4:47 pm
I will now leave maybe you can get the inside from the impostor. I will no longer post.

AllyinMiami on June 24th, 2005 4:48 pm
SOMEONE is using our names and writing vulgar things….be careful what u read, if it is vulgar, we didn’t write it. There are imposters here….TOM AND RED

Hopefloats on June 24th, 2005 4:48 pm
I was reading into what Simian said…he said a package coming from the Hague was the key..that is where the forensics investigation on the case is being done

******* on June 24th, 2005 4:49 pm
Where have all the Aruban and VDS family lovers gone?

AllyinMiami on June 24th, 2005 4:50 pm
the real simian, do not let these people push u away…u r better than that

pktbk on June 24th, 2005 4:50 pm
this bites. where are the moderators?

Hopefloats on June 24th, 2005 4:50 pm
I am not trying to be a joker I have been here all day. What I have said was all meant with the best intentions. Simian has been giving insight on the things happening and in sort of riddles. But I think somone might have been using his name a couple times but not when anything was said about the case other than the couple posts he later came back and referred to

Simian on June 24th, 2005 4:55 pm
An Aruban would never say that he is “down here in Aruba”.

I won’t post anymore because I feel I have been compromised.

Before I go…they are looking between the two water reservoirs. A small one and a large one.

The Texans are everywhere. Their dogs will find the other dead dogs. What a shame.

edie on June 24th, 2005 4:56 pm
simian
dont go

heatherey on June 24th, 2005 4:57 pm
Simian, thanks for all the info, I hate to see you go, but understand completely.

edie on June 24th, 2005 4:58 pm
I just went to fox news site. It really did say they are thinking that they murdered her.
They are not saying why they believe this… There is no body!

AllyinMiami on June 24th, 2005 5:01 pm
Simian—please, please, please —don’t go….please

AllyinMiami on June 24th, 2005 5:03 pm
SIMIAN DON’T GO….. don’t castigate us, please, due to other lowlifes on this sight….we appreciate u and all the information u have given us

Rachael on June 24th, 2005 5:03 pm
Sim please dont go you have helped us with the news

edie on June 24th, 2005 5:04 pm
What do they mean about Paulus V d s premeditated murder? And why is that a lesser charge

Checkme on June 24th, 2005 5:21 pm
I am sorry to see what happened with Simian…

born 2 be wild on June 24th, 2005 5:23 pm
I did not send the last blog [post] credited to my name. It was the impostor.

All Tom and Red have to do is isolate the senders server (e-mail address) and block it.

They should also report it to the FCC.

scaredshitless on June 25th, 2005 4:48 pm
I just went on another forum in this scaredmonkeys site and two idiots are posting porno movies

A girl is missing and these apes do something like this!

Tom on June 25th, 2005 5:12 pm
Can you give me the Address?

[end of thread]

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2005/06/24/natalee-we-arent-there-in-aruba-but-theyre-here-in-our-prayers/#comments

interesting..........

So Shango is a lesser god...Wonder how often he fed his messengers...

Shango Says:
June 26th, 2005 at 6:30 pm
Shango is not a Simian Doppleganger and has his own messengers

What did Sim say...get you 8 days in jail...Wonder if he did?

esser god=terrestrial

Olorum:   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON

lesser gods:    http://www.seti-italia.cnr.it/Pagina%20Archivi/Page04.htm

who are they and what did they know?

simian
adjective: of or pertaining to an ape or monkey/noun: an ape or monkey

primate
noun: Any of various mammals of the order Primates, having a highly developed brain, eyes facing forward, a shortened nose and muzzle, and opposable thumbs. Primates usually live in groups with complex social systems, and their high intelligence allows them to adapt their behavior successfully to different environments. Lemurs, monkeys, apes, and humans are primates.
_ _ _ _ _

"Et tu, Brute?" ("You too, Brutus?", or "And you, Brutus?" or "Even you, Brutus?") is a Latin phrase often used poetically to represent the last words of Julius Caesar. The quotation is widely used in Western culture as an epitome of betrayal

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Et_tu,_Brute%3F
_ _ _ _ _

capiche
[italian] [slang translation] (kah peesh') : I see/I understand/gotcha
_ _ _ _ _

doppelganger
noun: counterpart/double ... reflection?
_ _ _ _ _

trojan horse
classical mythology: a gigantic hollow wooden horse left by the Greeks upon their pretended abandonment of the siege of Troy. The Trojans took the horse into Troy and Greek soldiers concealed inside opened the gates to the Greek army at night, whereupon the city was conquered

also:
an enemy in your midst
a person or thing intended to undermine or destroy from within
a subversive group or device placed within enemy ranks
a subversive group that supports the enemy
and engages in espionage or sabotage
_ _ _ _ _

Simian on June 25th, 2005 8:41 pm
The boy is biting off his own tongue. The Babylonians are stunned. What possesses such a boy?

Most federales have left. The puzzle is nearly done. The one piece is missing. They need the cowboys help.

DanMar on June 25th, 2005 9:09 pm
The ape who is a wolf [in sheep's clothing] is here to disinform.

ShocktheMonkey on June 25th, 2005 9:19 pm
Sim, you working tonight?

DanMar on June 25th, 2005 9:22 pm
o what tangled webs we weave. a trojan horse has left smoke and mirrors.

ShocktheMonkey on June 25th, 2005 9:23 pm
who’s to say there was a trojan horse? There are other forms …

subdude on June 25th, 2005 9:24 pm
Without two witnesses saying same thing, can’t prove murder unless have the body. “One witness is not a witness”. Not sure if this is [an] accurate legal statement, but I think this is what “Monkeys” mean.

DanMar on June 25th, 2005 9:28 pm
the scorned ones have won the prize. details at eleven.

DanMar on June 25th, 2005 9:29 pm
monkeys no

subdude on June 25th, 2005 9:34 pm
DanMar: In Aruba?

DanMar on June 25th, 2005 9:35 pm
iowa, i just work in outer space

subdude on June 25th, 2005 10:01 pm
DanMar: federales?

DanMar on June 25th, 2005 10:02 pm
monkees r monkees - no more

subdude on June 25th, 2005 10:03 pm
Capiche

subdude on June 25th, 2005 10:04 pm
Et tu, Mr. Mar

Simian on June 25th, 2005 10:06 pm
There is [a] whisperer on the line. The sword of Damocles will soon fall. I can’t say whose on the throne.

Did he think he could rule forever from his hideaway?

All along the gamblers knew who he was.

Simian on June 25th, 2005 10:16 pm
Again, the Simian has a doppelganger.

Can’t compromise the whisperer on the line.

Signing off.

Kristin-in-SC on June 25th, 2005 10:18 pm
Sounds like to me that Simian has someone feeding him/her live info. Is Simian a member of the LE there??

Lily on June 25th, 2005 10:19 pm
I believe it’s a tap on his computer, and with the information being given out he has to get off before they can track him.

DanMar on June 25th, 2005 10:22 pm
the primate is my reflection



subdude on June 26th, 2005 11:53 am
If info from Shock, Simian, DanMar and Checkme is accurate, and so far it has proven pretty reliable on those things that can be confirmed, the Aruban interrogators are exceptionally good ...

... Stay tuned for more from the “Monkeys”, checkme, DanMar. There information is very specific and appears consistent with Aruban law of proof, in my extremely limited knowledge. I am going to hunt around US law today on rules for proving murder without [a] body based on witness statements.

_ _ _ _ _

does anybody have all the DanMar posts?  :wink:

Hopefully, someone may have DanMar's posts and we can put them in a separate thread.  If not, I will gently ask if Klaas has time to pull them. 

Great Thinking 2NJSons.... ::MonkeyHaHa::


COLOMBO...Do you have an actual person behind the Shango posts, anyone you suspect, can put a name on...LOL

only suspicions

Don't think so.

Finngirl,

Klaas pulled the DanMar posts this afternoon and created a separate thread.  Not much more than what you posted today.  I don't think he was anyone 'special'.  JMHO

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=3774.0

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 12:12 pm
Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon with his
12:30 AM posting
If the cowboys do not find the loot today, it will not be found.

[anybody wikpedia "loot?"]

I'm intrigued now:
those few posts earned him a mention
along w/ shock/simian from subdude

that, and sub seemed to pick up on something
re DM's contribution/participation:
the capiche and the et tu

"I work in outer space" =
GPS/satellite reference, perhaps

PS: thanks, Klaas  :cool:

???

http://www.dan-mar.com/milspec.htm

lesser gods:
http://www.dan-mar.com/tele.htm
 ::MonkeyLaugh::

DanMar said he was in Iowa.  If he had any affiliation with Dan.Mar Corporation...whose phone # was NY area code, then maybe he was just a used part salesman.   ::MonkeyTongue::

He posted for maybe a week....

or a customer

Mob owned equipment, like those gum ball machines & video games?.....big brother personified??????

2 (or 3) different posters sharing the nic, IMO:

i wrote the c word out of curiousity and my comment is still awaiting moderation.
Jun 23

o what tangled webs we weave. a trojan horse has left smoke and mirrors.
Jun 25

the scorned ones have won the prize. details at eleven.
Jun 25

monkeys no
Jun 25

iowa, i just work in outer space
Jun 25

monkees r monkees - no more
Jun 25

the primate is my reflection
Jun 25

loose ends are about tied.
Jun 26

i resemble that remark
Jun 26

_ _ _ _ _

The ape who is a wolf is here to disinform.
Jun 25

Hey y’all. I’ve been lurking for the last week or so. I don’t ever have time to read all of the comments - but I do scroll down and catch the jist of what’s being said. Not to point the finger to or away from anyone - I just don’t see how some teenage kids could hide a body (if there is one) so well. They would definitely have to have help (I think)
Jun 30

not until you mentioned it

meaning ... the gaming angle ... ?

JMO but in the context of the conversation
finding NH/her body
(or figuring out what happened to her)
was the loot

noun: something taken by dishonesty/force/stealth

Will the real Simian please stand up ...

I feel a Klaas moment coming on for a major photoshop ... lol.

Oh, and I would like to add that IMO the 'real' Simian would never spell rumor - rumour

DanMar is probably just a shortened version of the persons real name.
Example>>> Dan Martin

Are you sure...didn't he say "fortnight"... ::MonkeyHaHa::

American? Aruban? Dutch?

Living in Aruba?

Male or Female?

Name?  ::MonkeyHaHa::

Simian said not to "underestimate the power of the ping".......

so too the power of the ping should not be overestimated
 ::MonkeyRoll::

Yes, but I am wondering if your pingee is the same as my pingee... ::MonkeyHaHa::

Neither of us is ready to say...LOL

does your pingee belong to a person or another entity (i.e. company, etc)

He is a person that belongs to an entity... LOL

he?

They...I am after the author! And Yes, I do have a female in the group!

oops, sorry.....

"intriguing......"

Couple of things that crossed my monitor this morning...

Palace Casino - Allegro

Royal Cabana - La Cabana

Are we ever going to throw all our suspicions out here?

Finn...Who do you think is Shango? Please?

it's quite a leap to go from an interpretation of what was posted to identifying the individual.........

a female w/ an agenda linked to her profession

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Au3iygbh-rc&feature=related

Just a longshot, but could DirtyHand= Jair Leuteria? He is 'still on the run'.  Could he have been at the soul beach music festival in Aruba in 2005 hiding out there? Anybody know when he escaped from the Bon Futuro prison???

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 8:04 pm
"...DirtyHand is alive and well. "

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 6:13 pm
"...If DirtyHand comes out of hiding...

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=3445.540
johan555
Scared Monkey
hay welkom here !!!

   Re: Marlies van der Kouwe , 24, kidnapped in Bonaire 9/21/08 -(BODY FOUND)
« Reply #550 on: Today at 03:47:31 PM » Quote 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The main suspect in the murder of Marlies van der Kouwe, Rayan Pieters, is now under heavy surveillance returned to Bonaire.

Pieters was since Sunday on a very heavily secured section of the Bon Futuro prison on Curaçao placed. Pieters was in prison by fellow prisoners seriously threatening. It proved not possible to the department where Pieters stayed hermetically be closed.

Rayan Pieters, according to fellow prisoners in the Bon Futuro designated someone else allegedly involved in the murder of Marlies van der Kouw.
He would have referred to Jair Leuteria.

Leuteria escaped from the Bon Futuro prison and is still on the run and would, according to rumors on Bonaire keep hiding. Leuteria was over 20 years in prison convicted of a double murder.

poochy....

pics? light the fires.......

More Jair Leuteria (24)

http://www.sxmislandtime.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=3210:prisoner-shot-dead-in-prison&catid=31:general&Itemid=76

Prisoner shot dead in prison       
Written by amigoe.com     
Wednesday, 24 September 2008 11:44  www.sxmislandtime.com
A hearse drives up the premises of the Bon Futuro-prison to pick up the body of Cornelis Walker.
WILLEMSTAD – The prisoner Cornelis Walker (39) was shot and killed in the passageway across the Vocational building of the Bon Futuro-prison around 09:50 on Tuesday. It’s not known yet who pulled the trigger, but whoever did it, put the 38 that he used to kill Walker with on the body of the victim, who was at that time still alive and the weapon slipped next to the body when the victim took his last breath.

Reanimation attempt by the personnel of Cems were in vain. It remained remarkably calm in the prison after the incident; there was no revolt. “The prisoners always remain strikingly calm after each murder”, said spokesperson of the Bon Futuro, Aldino Schoop. It seems like the co-prisoners are frightened.” The OM demanded life in prison against Walker earlier this month for his part in the so-called Basora-case.

Walker was charged with 10 counts, including thefts of expensive SUVs, two assaults, and one murder. All of the above happened with the use of a mini-Uzi on Seru Papaya. Walker is the 16th victim of a violent incident this year. Five prisoners died inside the prison walls since 2004. The weapons are always retrieved, but the perpetrator remains unknown most of the time , despite the investigations. There is an oath of secrecy within the prison.

Firearms remain a big source of concern in Bon Futuro, and the warders also feel unsafe due to this. Some of the firearms are intercepted in advance during inspections or after tips. But it happens often enough that firearms are smuggled in. The current infrastructure of the prison, with the many corridors and the shortage of warders, make it perfect for this. The motive of the shootings are mostly reckonings. Walker has obviously antagonized many people with his actions. He told the judge that he committed the crimes, because he would have died otherwise.

Last week Jair Leuteria (24) managed to escape from prison last with the use of an extension ladder that was probably given to him by third parties from the outside. Leuteria is still on the run. He was serving an 18-year sentence for a double murder. The prison management has been pleading for more supervisory cameras for years, so that all the areas can be watched. The cameras the prison has now must keep turning to watch certain areas at a time

Comments Add New Search RSS
 
 

Sorry C, don't get our question .. what pics are you questioning? What do you mean by "light the fires"?

MORE INTERNET NEWS:
Tuesday, September 16, 2008
Opsporing verzocht Investigation requested
De politie heeft een opsporingsbericht doen uitgaan voor de gevluchtte Jair Leuteria, bijgenaamd Ilo. The police investigation has a message issued for the Leuteria fled Jair, nicknamed Ilo. Ilo was een van de mannen die gisternacht uit de Bon Futuro gevangenis vluchtte en die het wel gelukt is te ontkomen. Ilo was one of the men who last night from the Bon Futuro prison and fled that it succeeded to escape. Hij zat een straf uit wegens moord. He was a sentence for murder.

De 24 jarige Leuteria zat in blok 7 A en wist gisterochtend vroeg te ontsnappen. The 24-year Leuteria was in block 7 A and knew early yesterday morning to escape. In de ochtendkranten staan ook foto’s van hem. In the morning papers are also photographs of him.[/b] Mocht u meer weten over de verblijfplaats van deze man, belt u dan de politie op een van de volgende telefoonnummers: 108, 911, of 8666-174. If you know more about the whereabouts of this man, please call the police on one of the following numbers: 108, 911, or 8666-174. Geplaatst door Richard Turner op 9/16/2008 11:15:00 AM Posted by Richard Turner on 9/16/2008 11:15:00 AM    Labels: Bon Futuro Tags: Bon Futuro

Last week Jair Leuteria (24) managed to escape from prison last with the use of an extension ladder that was probably given to him by third parties from the outside. Leuteria is still on the run. He was serving an 18-year sentence for a double murder.

what year was he jailed?

Sure is quiet in here...let's liven things up a bit with a question. Remember this...no answer is a wrong answer if you can justify your thoughts.  You can either show evidence supporting this or even tell why you lean in that direction without any evidence.  Just argue your case effectively.

Your only limitation is keep it civil and keep it in this thread.  We are allowed to speculate more freely here and it does not detract from the NCD thread where others may not wish to participate. I will play devil's advocate on this one so be ready.  Let's do it!


Question:  Who do you think is Shango and why?

LOL...Lala's...I was coming to respond to Finn and made a list of all those I have researched...Now you want me to explain why??? ::MonkeyWaa::

 

Be back in a bit... ::MonkeyHaHa::

Persons of interests for me, these are ones I have played around with…This may include a family member…or friends. Some of these are friends. They have all been discussed at length, so there is no worries about putting all this out there!

I firmly believe there was another FBI person on the Island that night. He may be retired FBI.

I believe we needed a Florida connection and have found one in most of these cases. All have the knowledge of Santeria and all know what goes on in Aruba and how things work.


DEA.
FBI
Jossy…daughter
Alex Mathew…his wife
Charles Croes…daughter
Eric Williams
Julia Renfro

As to the Why!…Depending if I look at Shango’s posts as some-one who was trying to let us know what was really going on or if he was trying to refute Simian’s 5th. suspect my reasons change. Or was it just misinformation. Or maybe he had a bone to pick…which would be Mathew and Jossy. Jossy would have political motives as well as with him I have considered that Simian’s 5th may have been a relative.

Letting us know…Again Jossy and Mathew…Also DEA, FBI. Perhaps Williams, maybe Charles Croes…

Misinformation…Julia, Charles Croes, possibly Eric Williams.

Then again, if Shango was some-one like Damilice Mansur then the reasons could be political, a bone to pick, or as with Jossy, possibly the 5th being a relative…

Charles fancies himself a writer...Julia is/was an editor, would assume she has some writing skills...

I am going to wait until I hear other thoughts before I address any of your possibilities.  I am sure you understand why I am saying this since we are pretty much on the same page with our thoughts.  I would like to have just one person that each person is willing to go out on a limb and convince me could be Shango.  I already know who I think it is and I have my reasons as you already know.  :roll:

 :smt102 :scratch:   

I know that what I think doesn't amount to a hill 'o beans,but I have
always thought this was Shango.  A reporter for Diario, who knew
the history of the workings of the island and had access to police
information as a reporter.  I am not sure if this is a real person or
a cover for one of the other staff.

 
  ::MonkeyHaHa::
 
 
 
Staff 
EDITOR

Agencia Arubano

di Noticia

 

DIRECTOR

Jossy M. Mansur

 

DIRECTOR ASISTENTE

Luis M. Mansur

Jossy E. Mansur

Eduardo Mansur

Damilice Mansur

 

HEFE DI REDACCION

Jossy M. Mansur

 

HEFE SUPLENTE

Jenny Cratz

 

REDACTOR COORDINATIVO

Aureen Werleman

 

REDACTOR EHECUTIVO

Hubert Naar

Nilton Laclé

Yorleny Oduber

 

REDACTOR

Mercedes Abdul-Hamid

Josefina del Rosario

Siomara Everon

Django Simoons

Giovanni Lane

Tania Cunha (International)

 
 
 
 

Amalin Flanegan ...
the asst prosecutor who was disgusted
w/ (non) events and resigned

at one time I had much research saved
re how the timing of her resignation
corresponded to the timing of shango's posts

can't recall now if it was the end or beginning
of shango that tied in

there's a timeline of shango posts here somewhere ...
8-hour shifts (?)

I interpreted "feeding the messengers"
as preparing press statements
for the prosecutor's spokesperson

the document which contains the research
is contaminated by a virus
and my protection system denies access to it

From thread 2 posted by TM... ::MonkeyEek::

Appearing in the Trade Register of the Chamber of Commerce and Industry in ARUBA since 14 AUGUST 2001 under serial number 27951.0 is the company with the trade name:
 
 
VCB VIDEO CAMERA BEVEILIGINGSSYSTEMEN & CONSULTANCY 
 
Business address PAPAYA 14-D, PARADERA 
Legal form  SOLE OWNERSHIP 
Name of the company  VCB VIDEO CAMERA BEVEILIGINGSSYSTEMEN & CONSULTANCY 
Date of commencement  14 AUGUST 2001 
     
THIS COMPANY HAS BEEN CANCELLED ON 18 OCTOBER 2004 
   
OWNERS/PARTNERS 
 
SIMOONS, ROBERTO FREDERICK IDAGARD; 
Residing in  PAGAAISTRAAT 10, ORANJESTAD, ARUBA 
Born in  ARUBA on 5 JULY 1978 
Nationality  DUTCH 
Position  OWNER 
Effective  14 AUGUST 2001 
Authority  FULL 
   
VAN CROMVOIRT, WILHELMUS BERNARDUS HENRIQUEZ PETRUS PAULUS; 
Residing in  PAPAYA 14-D, PARADERA, ARUBA 
Born in  THE NETHERLANDS, 'S-HERTOGENCOSCH on 29 JUNE 1959 
Nationality  DUTCH 
Position  PROXY 
Effective  2 DECEMBER 2002 
Authority  FULL 
   
OBJECTIVE(S) OF THE COMPANY 
 
HET BEVEILIGEN VAN BEDRIJVEN PARTICULIEREN.


Only valid if accordingly signed by the Chamber of Commerce & Industry Aruba - J.E. Irausquin Blvd.10, Oranjestad, Aruba.
 
 
 

Wow...Another good one...Timeline of Shango posts is on I believe page 13, of the previous thread...Your post, right Finn, with links?

My choice:

User WhytheGirl = Angel Pristess = shango.

Hi Caps...Interesting...Just saw a post of her's today!

Can you tell us why?  TIA

For Finn...

**Welcome To The World of Free Plain Vanilla Electronic Texts ...Nationality: noun: Aruban(s) adjective: Aruban Ethnic divisions: mixed ...... of mission: Principal Officer Alan H. FLANIGAN US Interests Section: USINT, ...
snowy.arsc.alaska.edu/gutenberg/etext93/world93.txt - Similar pages

I remember Whyte.  Puerto Rican roots, I think; lived in the Northeast;
loved Shakira and had a child and a kitten?  Is that the right one?

Good to see you CAPS.

becuase of a frase that was search on

"underestimate the power of the ping pong aruba"

The user us it shango "do not underestimate the power of the ping" ....... but left thes rest out

the only person that use that statment was user whythegirl

search no for whythegirl and it droped me to Angel Pristess who is in Puerto Rico who is was in 2005 in florida.

and has a link into Scaremonkey in her space.

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2007/01/06/carnival-destiny-says-to-aruba-hasta-la-vista-baby-aruba-tourism-take-another-hit/

and shango is a she and not a he...

correction the user

whytegirl and not whythegirl

I do not know if she is a membber of SM but she posted in the front page

Interesting....could you please explain a little more.  I was always under the impression you believed it was someone different.  Please tell me more.

Whytegirl posted in the LCD thread frequently in late 2005 and 2006 as
I remember.  I am not sure if she posted on the front page.

Let me see if I have this right...you feel that Shango was a member of the Diario staff and it could be this Simoons person. Is that right?  Would you mind expanding on those thoughts...all good ideas.  Wow!  This is interesting.

Good choice there!  Please give me more examples.  I like your thinking. 

For Caps...

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?action=profile;u=89;sa=showPosts;start=0

Well, like Finn, I thought it was somebody who worked an eight hour shift. I interpreted "feeding the messengers" as writing articles for the newspaper.
And the first time I looked at the staff of Diario the name just jumped out at me.
Working for Diario, one would have had access to an email address in Miami.
Absolutely nothing substantial.....just thoughts.

The problem with the memeber of the Diario Staff, they are no so intelectual in Yoruba or not so poetic in their form of writing,

Django in no way in that category and his level to understand the power of political ping pong.

If they were so good in the political ping pong arena, they could have seen the hidden secret of aruba where IMPAX and ICON and ARULEX are all the same which is the ARUBA government with fake transperancy at play.

Why do you say she = Shango, Caps?  I had had email contact with her back then...she described illness, her children, family.....I just found her website in an old email, so I know we are talking about the same poster.

not sold.......

My opinion only...

Whytegirl liked to talk (or post so to speak). I just can't see her sticking to that type of "script" in the role of Shango.

She just posted last month on the front page. She is the type that if she had a message, she would not hide behind another nic, IMO.

Flanegin and CC are both interesting candidates for me...

I always thought Shango was a practicing Santiera religious person from Nigeria or Brazil, living on Aruba, that messengers = cats, that 'feed the messengers' = to literally feed cats.

I also thought Shango had some friends who were there during the 'trade' that night, and told him/her what happened. But Shango being very religious used this religion terminology to share what had happened that night.   

Based on Shango's posts it is obvious that the native Arubans made money besides working in the tourist industry. We all know what the export is. That is why codetalkers constant mention about 'wampum' being scarce for many moons. It was with all the attention focused on Aruba early on. I think Shango is someone with a conscious - something rarely found on Aruba, because if there was at least one person with a conscious, Natalee would be home where she belongs.
 
www.pantheon.org/articles/s/shango.html

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:56 pm

Shango is the god of justice
alive in many forms
he who speaks through Oxum through lightning
and himself through thunder
father of the violent dance
diviner of secrets of the seven levels of inferno
bound to truth even as it burns
so that justice may be brought.

I was searching for her site or where she could have a site.

Can you answer my question why you think she is Shango?  I deliberately didn't post her site because I do not see it related to the discussion.  It's her family and a personal, daily blog.  What am I not getting here?...

From Erie PA...According to FP posts...

She does love cats though!

Yes, ....I just thought that if one had a Shango suspect they were to say 'why they thought so'.  Last I looked your name was MumInOhio.  ::MonkeyWink::

Caps, I may have sounded a little nasty....that was not my intent. 

Please let's not post anything personal as in family sites unless we have permission.  If it is a public site then we can access it on our own.  I know whytegirl personally...she used to post her personal info all the time and I even emailed with her...but I respect her privacy too.  Caps your explanation is good enough for me at this time.

Would a mod please delete that link to her site.  That way no one gets in trouble. Thanks.

Charles Croes...

June 30th. 2005 (times from memory)

Shango’s last FP post…2.50AM

Julia Renfro questioned by ALE…4.30

Charles Croes posts on FP re A Current Affair…9.50

Charles Croes appears on Greta…10.00

What if Shango was more than one person?

I remember Klaas and Red....I think that is right....said late one night that
Charles Croes was not Shango.  I believed them.

I just can't see Whyte posting the Shango stuff.  I think if she used the
"underestimate the power of the ping"  she was just repeating what she
had read in Shango's posts.

CAPS,

I missed your reason on the previous page....obvious to everyone else, but just found it, now.   Excuse me for that and my subsequent questions. 

Do you have a date that she referred to the 'ping' comment? 

I agree, and that's why I just asked when she used the term.

Caps can correct me if I am wrong but I think she referred to the ping-pong of politics.

I don't see how that relates to underestimate the power of the ping. I don't think the phrase she used is unusal but maybe I've missed something...

Let me throw some things out for consideration.

Shango's IP was from Florida. ( I know, doesn't mean a thing)
Shango played to the gambling angle of Aruba.
Shango was known to Simian and AllyinMiami.
Shango posted under other nicknames as well. (Don't ask, I don't have that list)
Shango never said that Joran was anything but a scapegoat and that the Kalpoes were not involved in what happened to Natalee. 
Shango knew who Dirty Hand was and wanted him discovered.
Shango did not get along with Simian...why?
Was Shango Dutch?
Was Shango Aruban?
Was Shango female?

I didn't find it at the FP link that Caps posted.


Magnolia...any more on when Red and klaas might have said that please, like to find it...TIA

I remember Klaas and Red....I think that is right....said late one night that
Charles Croes was not Shango.  I believed them.

I just can't see Whyte posting the Shango stuff.  I think if she used the
"underestimate the power of the ping"  she was just repeating what she
had read in Shango's posts.
[/quote]

I agree, and that's why I just asked when she used the term.
[/quote]


I didn't find it at the FP link that Caps posted.


Magnolia...any more on when Red and klaas might have said that please, like to find it...TIA
[/quote]

Lordy, I have no idea of the date.  It was about 10:00 at night.  There was a discussion
about CC and several people said that they thought he was Shango and it was stated
emphatically that he was not.  It was at least 2 to 2 1/2 years ago.

Good Night...this from Frijole...seeing I am not sure what COLOMBO is not buying! ::MonkeyHaHa::

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=3437.msg485053#msg485053


Re: Natalee Case Discussion #771
« Reply #120 on: October 06, 2008, 01:09:43 PM » 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree that the Greta interview with Charles Croe was very strange.  Course this was before we knew how corrupt everyone is/was....

I remember thinking by his looks and his cryptic talk that he knew alot and that he had to be CIA or DEA.  Greta made sure we knew that the interview was heavily edited so as not to jeopardize the case.  REmember this is when we all still believed that anything said in the media would be excluded as evidence.  We thought Greta was being careful not to ruin the case.

I have many times shouted out for Greta to replay that entire interview so we could know what was said.  I think Joran said some incriminating things that night.  I think Croes was silenced by the Elders.

Good day all - back to work  here-


Thanks Magnolia...

Do you still think it is Gabe Leo and the Aviation bunch?

Never understood LE requiring him to sign non-disclosure agreements either, as he claims.

I don't think they were the original Shango...but I do think they played a role in helping get the information out.  See, I don't think the real Shango actually posted those posts. He/she had help.

Oh well, at least the thoughts made things livelier in here for a change.  ::MonkeyCool::

I am with you in your line of thinking, Lala's.  I feel like there was a primary Shango person who had help from some others.


Is anyone else having trouble with the SM pages today?

I'm confused

shango didn't say:
do not underestimate the power of the ping

that was simian

toward the very end of their posting history
when sim was really/really P O'd

Well, of course you are right.  :smt045

I'm glad you knew where it was ...
wasn't sure if I'd posted it

and I now realize there is/was a problem

18 months/2 years ago when I did that timeline
I was looking at several compilations of posts
rather than the actual posts

checking real quickly again tonight
this is what I found so far

[original post]
AFAIK this is when shango posted/approximate time/aruba clock:
june 26th: 7 AM to 3:12 PM
8 hours

wrong: 3:09 PM to 11:12 PM
but still 8 hours

then one post at 4 AM on june 27

[original post]
june 27th: 8 PM to 4 AM
8 hours

wrong again: 12:12 PM to 11:59 PM
12 hours

still not sure that the complilations
I looked at just now are correct/complete ...
but I'm liking the "revised" shifts better:
they don't fall w/in traditional office hours

omigod, do I have to plow thru the FPs AGAIN?
(say it isn't so)

haven't yet checked the three dates below:

[original post]
june 28th
4 AM to 7 PM
double shift
15 hours

june 29th
OFF

june 30th
6 PM to 7 PM
1 hour

forgot to include this:

friday june 17 - SGC arrested/simian begins posting

thursday june 23 - PvdS arrested

friday june 24 - TES arrives

saturday june 25 - TES conducts ocean/ground/wetlands searches

sunday june 26 - TES continues searching;
judge orders that SGC is to be released the next day/monday;
hours later judge also releases PvdS, who is immediately freed

always wondered about that extra night
in custody for SGC ... but I digress ...

sunday june 26 - shango begins posting

paraphrasing three posters on june 26
... shango/simian/checkme ...
tomorrow (june 27) is the day

shango: the loot must be found tomorrow or forever be lost
simian: watch tomorrow and it will unfold before you
checkme: I leave now to prepare for your news tomorrow

another poster asked checkme:
what will you say if nothing is announced tomorrow?

checkme's reply: that will not happen

monday june 27 - TES attempts to conduct search w/ dogs
at Moko quarry pond near vdS residence;
two dogs "hit" but the search is interfered w/
by locals throwing rocks/debris into the water

nothing is announced that day/there is no news

shango posted june 26-june 30
which is the week that Ms Flanegin resigned from the case ...
altho in july she was part of the team which came to US 
to share evidence w/ FBI

since I can't open my corrupted document
I (again) need to find something concrete
re the date of her resignation: a link/a transcript
or even posts re that development

??? anyone?

I frequently have trouble w/ this site

I usually visit 10-12 sites every day
and this is the only one
I consistently have problems w/

just sayin' ...

also, when I google stuff
and SM is where I am directed ...
about 8 out of 10 times I get a warning

something like AccessWatch?

warning: this site may be dangerous

I can choose from:
always allow
allow this time
never allow

then if I click to allow the re-direction
I usually get a msg that the "cache" doesn't exist
and I can't return to the previous page
and have to close the browser

if I do get to the cached page
then I can't return to where I was
and have to close the browser

whassup w/ all that?

Hmmm....

I believe that his "tales" are part of his punishment...Improving Aruba's image...LOL

Had a heck of a time trying to get out of here last night! Not the first time and there is a pattern.

One time I went to Clinton's thread, I think I even posted, logged out and the header still showed me in Shango logged in. All the while I was in Missing Persons.

Found this while looking for what Magnolia posted last night about Red and Klaas. Posting it here because there is mention of Shango...

From Grande...It appears to be an email from Charles Croes...

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=397.360


 Lively Case Discussion #529 10/2 - 10/7/2006
« Reply #372 on: October 03, 2006, 09:44:58 PM » 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am hoping to expand on this dialogue and the statements within,  therefore I am posting it for all to view...   

Please email me if you have anything further to add > tdbweb2003@yahoo.com

 “Did you know that the missing girls family sent a private investigator to my home at midnight to do a voice analysis on me? Are you aware that this was done without preparing me beyond a phone call only moments prior to getting to the house. Are you also aware that these folks also did not come clean. They pretended to be doing a story for a major paper that was there to uncover the whole truth. And .. are you aware that the voice stress test came up 100% clean? did you know that? Are you aware that I have been grilled and questioned by (in excess of) 4 different groups? Are you aware that there was never a trace of variance nor was there ever any inkling of lack of anything but truth and cooperation? Did you know that? go back and do some real homewark. Get your facts straight. Find out that because I made the decision to help a mother during a terrible moment in her life that this same family took an oath to "Burn Aruba To The Ground" You can quote me on that to Mr. Judd. Are you aware that there was a concious effort made to destroy my business? We suffered cancellations and many other hardships and practically had to close our doors. Why? William it happened because we wanted to help. Practically all persons that interviewed me - manipulated my words to their comfort and to get to those persons most likely to be affected by the trash that was printed. I for one, canont cater to an Enquirer based culture. It is a waste of all our times.”

Grande: You stated... "are you aware that the voice stress test came up 100% clean? did you know that?"  I can't answer that as I am unaware of the context of this statement and who it refers too. Yourself or Joran?

 “I refer to myself. I was asked many trick questions that appeared to be a part of a conversation and (try as they did) the test stayed completely in the "Green Zone" In other words, I did not lie and was not under stress in my coments. Why? Simple - nothing to gain from lying and everything to gain from helping a distraught family. Simply put, I told the truth. And equally as simply put, it was not a convenient thing for the family to have out there, so that truth was hidden. Not squashed, but hidden. I have nothing to hide from anyone that is earnest in their approach to me. Try to understand the horrible - beyond words - circumstances that existed and that we all lived through and imagine for a moment that as horrible as we all fealt, that we knew - or assumed - that the family suffered countless times more. We will talk again since I feel that the person that wrote the article about me also did not do his homework. I repeat the following question : "I am interested in your use of the word Shango. Perhaps you will find it in your heart to reveal this? Dig deep."

Grande: "I am interested in your use of the word Shango. Perhaps you will find it in your heart to reveal this? Dig deep." I appreciate your time again. The reference is to the Shango that posted on Scared Monkeys who presumably had inside information. The posts originated from an ISP in the Plantation,  Florida area, which coincidentally is the same are Gabriel Leo now lives and has for quite some time with Jairo and Myrna. Frankly, I felt that you were the source of the information in hopes of expediting the investigation, there in lies my motive for the reference, although looking back I regret making. Would you care to explain your use of the term "Mr. Judd"?

 “Mr. Judd is what I started calling Beths husband. He was very judgmental about Aruba and its people and referred to us as: Island idiots Island Niggers Cock suckers Ass holes And on and on and on From Judge came Judd etc. He cooled his jets a little when he had an official complaint made against him for pushing a woman that was holding a baby. He is truly a Disney kind of guy. Quite a fellah”

Grande: “Sander's phone wasn't really lost was it? It was Sander's phone that was used to make that early morning phone call correct? If you can discount this I would be grateful.”

 “Let me see if I can satisfy this apparent apetite you have for this matter with some truth and not speculation. HONEST AND PURE ANSWER: I do not know this and my inclination is to answer that up until today, no one is sure. Why do I say that? Consider that it was the principal reason that they called me that night. I was called to see if the phone was one of our company phones. It wasn't and after multiple questioning on that topic and reviewing our files repeatedly, we definately knew that the phone was not ours. After that, my involvement was more dedicated to being of assistance to the family and not to phone issues, with the exception of answering questions related to that topic. As big of a deal as it was at the onset, it seemed to die off - with all parties - not just one side or the other. So I canno0t discount or affirm your statement since I simply do not know and was not in the info loop regarding this issue…”

Grande: “Isn't this phone call a matter of  public record via the civil suit recently ruled against? Is it that you are just not willing to provide a detail like that…” 

 “Yes it was Julia Renfro that he pushed. Real American Hero isn't he? Only other thing he could have done to "trump" that piece of bravado was to find a puppy to kick. Regarding details on phone calls, trust me that if I did have details about the phone call, I would be telling them to anyone that asked os asks today, however there is no reason to invent an interesting lie instead of telling the boring truth. There is just too much to be lost in hiding the truth. Regarding Geoffrey and drug use or selling and buying, I am completely and honestly not in that info loop. It did not get involved in her drug activities beyond being made aware by various persons (over time)that those activities existed. Is it true? DO NOT KNOW and WAS NOT THERE. My goal at the time was the goal to find her as soon as posible so I dedicated efforts to the imediate and not to events leading up to it. The Caribbean or anywhere else on earth has its' cultures, sub-cultures and their underground worlds. Since many island nations are small, those cultures and sub worlds are simply harder to hide and so much more obvious. Getting sucked into them is not hard on one hand and on the other, these cultures are so obvious to the naked eye that they can be easily avoided by the savvy or alert person. What happens is that there is an aspect that I call a "Delicious danger" and much like moths to flames, they are attractive to that small lurid side that resides in 99% of us. "No-one-will-know" is much too often the mistaken reasoning for entering into situations that should be avoided. if you are (as you say you are) committed to the truth, then you will have to walk the many mazes of deception and misinformation. Consider that in protecting the innocent, we have to assume that the innocent is just that - innocent. So .... Who was or is at fault? Which path would have been the best to take? Where will your enquiries lead you? Let me know, and remember a small script left behind by one of our most famouse historical figures; "Cerca Trova" My ability to visualize what would happen was nothing more than an analysis of the logical outcome. Consider what I had as information at the time: Mother and Step Father are looking for a lost daughter They have the finances to get on a provate jet and come here Mother is distraught Step father sits around sulking all the time Step father was against the girl taking the trip While not attractive, the girl is white and blonde Her chaperones are misteriously not being held responsible Her highschool friends did not go to her aid Her firends hop on a plane the following day and say bye to Aruba and ... She is seen leaving with three young men (strange thing to do) She says her mother is related to Hitler She insinuates she is a virgin She is said to be using drugs that evening The young man is an odd-ball at best The young man is articulate for his age and intelligent (off the scale). There is an air or aura of "things being hidden" by ALL SIDES. As the days followed the initial night of my involvement, I saw the group of people grow into a circus of those looking for attention. Anything and everything was coming out of the woodwork - most of it bull shitters. What good can come of this? What are the truths behind it all? Is it easy for a mother to admitt that her daughter is not 100% pure? Why would a step-father not be more supportive? Why so much drinking with the boys at night when the searches came to an end. Why so much talk about connections with (and I quote) The supreme highest person in America. Shortly after that Ms. Rice (USA) makes statements and consoles the parents. Did she do this to other parents in America? It all stunk to high heaven and it prompted me to make the statement that I did. If looked at from that point of view, it is a simple deduction and nothing more. I just happened to be at (hate this term) "Ground Zero". some day (perhaps) you and I will have an opportunity to talk face to face. You will realize then that the statements in Vanity Fair were actually an UNFAIR and VAIN way for a magazine to sell copies. I asked them twice for the copies of the final script to make sure that I was properly quoted. What did I get? A final edition only days before it was on the stands. This is the way America showed its face here. While not representative of the country, as a whole, it was not a pretty sight. Consider the cast of characters: Would you send Mr. Judd to represent the USA at the "Good-Guy" olympics? NOPE! Is it fair to say that a mother that goes through the anquish that she did might act in a manner that is not normal to her calmer side or persona? YEP! So you have two persons that for their own reasons are not at their best, yet we listen to their every word as if they were letters of gold. Think and if all else fails you, CERCA TROVA And know that to look for the truth is a good thing, however to tell it is both noble and sometimes not popular. you cought me at just the right momment on this topic. That is the only reason that I have taken to time to state what I did. Next time you meet that man or lady that wrote that piece about me (the one you gave me the link too) - tell that person that there is a mule in my back yard and that they are welcome to go there and kiss that mule. I only say that because the article is untruthfull and written by an obvious self serving personality. hope you arent the mule lover…”

Grande:  “I apreciate your response on all accounts. Please allow me a few moments to digest what you have written as I intend to fully respond. Have we dropped the Shango dialogue for any particular reason?”

 “If we ever meet in person, I will share it with you. It has nothing to do with NH”

Grande: “Is there any chance you can expand on your latest response…”

 “It is simple. In the religion that I practice, "Chango" is one of the more important Saints. Often times, people misuse that name or spell it incorrectly. That is a very bad thing to do . Kind of like mispelling Jesus. It is a personal thing. Nothing more. Cerca Trova”

Grande: “Did Gabriel post on your behalf?...”

 “You are not the first one to ask me about Gabriel. I do not know a "Gabriel" and do not know what he/she posted. Want to fill me in? Wisdom - give that term solid thought. Wisdom certainly does not reside in this skull. YOu and I walk the same paths - only difference being that my point of view is that of the Carribean while your is that of your surroundings…”

Grande: “For as long as I can recall, Gabriel Leo has been accredited with 'jumping the fence' at the Van Der Sloots on that Tuesday morning (what a Tuesday it must have been, one you won't soon forget, regret on the other hand...) My understanding is that he wrote down Deepak's license plate prior to the Holloway/Twitty’s arriving. Quite honestly I was under the impression he was the one that assisted you in getting to the VDS residence at appx. 2:40am. Perhaps this picture of Gabriel http://i3.tinypic.com/169lvls.jpg will provide will evoke a memory. It is widely accepted that Gabriel was at the VDS residence the night the search was initiated…”

 “It ws such a blurr that I try to only stick to the facts that I can aver to without hesitation and Gabrial isn't one of them.. Not saying the lad was't there, just saying I do not recall…”

Mum, thanks for your above post.

This snippet reminds me of some key Shango verses. So which came first - his email  or Shango posts?  Is he quoting the Shango posts or did he write the Shango posts? (Then again, he did correct the spelling of Shango to Chango...) Is his 'delicious danger' = Shango's 'forbidden desires'?

 "...The Caribbean or anywhere else on earth has its' cultures, sub-cultures and their underground worlds. Since many island nations are small, those cultures and sub worlds are simply harder to hide and so much more obvious. Getting sucked into them is not hard on one hand and on the other, these cultures are so obvious to the naked eye that they can be easily avoided by the savvy or alert person. What happens is that there is an aspect that I call a "Delicious danger" and much like moths to flames, they are attractive to that small lurid side that resides in 99% of us. "No-one-will-know" is much too often the mistaken reasoning for entering into situations that should be avoided. if you are (as you say you are) committed to the truth, then you will have to walk the many mazes of deception and misinformation. Consider that in protecting the innocent, we have to assume that the innocent is just that - innocent..."

Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 2:59 am
The Simian Doppleganger is upset because the arawak nation is hiding the truth from the cowboys. DirtyHand knows. Simian knows. The Simian stated for 2 days, the key would come from the hague the next day. Shango said no two times. Is Simian a DirtyHand too. Has the Simian played with the lions in the houses of ill-repute and poison notes where the innocent flies are lured? Has the Simian, primate that he is, fed with the other animals? Back ye fetid mongrel, as the 46th are you; delegate of the 7th level of inferno, not birthed, but spewed from the dark chasm of a nightmare!

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:26 pm
The maze of Babylon is very difficult for the supposed guilty, even if innocent.  The Arawaks cannot reveal their singing card.  many teepees would be destroyed and the cowboys would get upset.  the singing card is bad luck for wampum for many moons.  So there must be some type of sacrifice.  The gods are hungry, the cowboys are hungry.  Great disruption in the halls of babylonian palace.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:30 pm
You always find forbidden desires in the small houses of Babylon. The girl knew this. Find DirtyHand! He too walked in this house of Babylon. But not to satiate desire.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:41 pm
even after a daughter gives birth to a grandchild, the father of the new mother will still claim his daughter is a virgin. All who enter the damned corridors of the houses of Babylon know the dangers that await. But the knowledge that they are forbidden is what makes them so pleasurable.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:45 pm
All who enter the damned corridors of the houses of Babylon know the dangers that await.

Good Morning Poochy...From reading pages and pages this morning, I believe that Grande posted that email shortly after he got it. October 2006.

LOL...I had to go through pages to find it...

I have to say the more I read the more I get confused! Sometimes Charles sounds like Simain, sometimes Shango! Native Lingo made a post that sounded like it came straight from Charles...they all seem to be intertwined!

Caps posts about the power of the ping has me going on all those cell phones again...LOL

 :smt045 :smt045

That's what I believe -- and that's why I couldn't answer Lala's question.

A silly game, that got out of hand -- all at the expense of a missing and presumed dead innocent teenager.

Going back and reading makes me like  ::MonkeyEek::and  ::MonkeyConfused:: and  ::MonkeyNoNo::

Thanks Mum for that post.  I was digging around everywhere trying to find that one.  You are so good at locating things. 

Your observation is very astute!  You are closer to the truth than you may think. MOO

Given Sharon's premise that all of these posters are intertwined...which is why I have screamed about  "context" for so long...I was told something the other day by Mum that I thought was one of the more brilliant ideas concerning Shango.  We had been talking about who Shango could be and this is what she said...I am sharing parts of her email so everyone will understand...I thought it was a very good observation. MOO



I was reading one of your posts this morning working on the Index...put a couple of thoughts I found in there...Need to check my notes on what times Shango says...Messengers...Could he be the script writer? Messengers the other posters in the crew?
 

I have been looking at our possible Messengers...need names...LOL
 
Here is what I have so far...May be a better way to do this...Only Merian in July...August posts...anything to do with August arrests. Checkme, Simian and Shango quit on 6/30...First Shango then Simian then Checkme.
 

The Messengers

 

Simian…6/17- 5?PM, 6/22-11.24AM to 6/30 – 4.24PM

Mono…6.10PM - 6/30

Baboon…10.28AM - 7/1

Gordo Enmision… 11.21AM - 8/1, 8/2, 8/5, 8/9…Joined 7/31

Alcazar’s Revenge…19.04AM - 8/3, 8/4 8/9…Joined  8/3

Merian Ernest…11.30AM –1/7, 6, 7, 8, 12, 13, 14, 15, 19,21, 22, 26, 27 end 1.23PM

Grey Whisper…March? And May 2006

Christy White…9.24AM to 9.51AM – 6/23

ShocktheMonkey…10.18AM – 12.06PM 6/23, 9.08PM-11.25PM - 6/25

Checkme…6/13, 16, 17, 20, 21, 22,23,24,25,26,27,28,29,30-11.17PM-sounds final

Peeps…8/1-4, 8/6, 8/25 and some from another thread

Shango posts from Ian's blog...8/23

AllyInMiami
   

I think I agree ::MonkeyConfused::

Hi there!  Sorry it took me so long to answer you. Yes, this topic is based on Natalee.  These posters were posting on the FP of this forum in June 2005.  Each of them posted things that seemed cryptic and many other people that read the blog felt they were talking in code.  Some things they said made no sense at the beginning. As information began to trickle out and suspects were arrested many of the things they were posting began to make sense. 

Having said that, keep in mind that rarely will anyone in here agree with anything someone else thinks concerning Shango, Simian and others. This is a speculation thread about these posters and what did they really know. After almost 4 years I have come to the conclusion that much of it was a bunch of hooey.  I have been here so long working on this stuff that I can make pretty much anything and any theories fit these posts.  It is all up to interpretation.  If you spend time in here you will see that this is one of the most interesting forums here.  Some of our brightest thinkers are in here.  Thinking outside the box is a requirement actually.   I hope this helped to explain things a little better, if not...ask me.  If I don't know I promise you...someone else will. 

Just some thoughts to ponder.  I bolded the things that are most signifigant concerning Shango...also remember we later learned that Gabe was not one of those that jumped the fence at the Sloots that night.  He was just one of the messengers that jumped on the bandwagon and it took off like lightning. Any Shango reader will recognize several of the terms I marked...keep thinking everyone. 

Mornin' Mum,

Yes, so very confusing - all of it. Even from June 2, 2005 when Charles made his 'far reaching implications for all involved'  statement:

Author: Charles (—.setardsl.aw)Date: 06-02-05 09:01There are issues in this case that can go beyond the obvious in their implications.It will take time for all the information regarding this lovely child to come out. Some of it will be hard to handle and some of it will be expected. With regards to the family of this missing child, my prayers are with you.I was with them on the first night they arrived to ARuba (looking for their daughter) from midnight until 5:30 AM and have kept in touch. In my opinion, this issue has far reaching implications for all those involved.I wish all of us strength --charles  -- arubafastphones.com.com

Didn't Sen. Bacchus make a similar statement about her disappearance?

Not sure...hopefully some-one with a better memory will...or I will see what I can find!

Brandy
I think a lot of it is BS.  Some of it is a distraction from the truth.  If you ever read some of my previous comments on this subject..and there are many...LOL...you will see that each poster gives you info on some things that are or eventually were found to be correct. Keep in mind that by saying "correct" I mean from a standpoint of what we know to be correct.  It does not mean it is the truth in this case at all... just that there are facts to support one idea or another.  When reading Shango or Simian or any other poster from the FP I always stress it is the "context" of the post that is important.  If you have no idea what the other "messengers" are talking about then you can not say it is this or that.  Of course, this too leads to many possible scenarios because on the FP it may take a few minutes for a response to a comment to be posted.  You have to sort through it all and you have to do it over and over again.  It is very tedious work but interesting at the same time. 

Let me ask you a question now....how much time have you spent reading the Shango posts?  BTW this is not a loaded question at all so don't fear your answer.

Yes he did. Something about it goes beyond the obvious.  Yep it sure did.

Another one I found this morning...



Lively Case Discussion #626 5/22 - 5/23/2007
« Reply #383 on: May 22, 2007, 09:29:13 PM »

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1156.msg166604#msg166604


Quote from: "klaasend"

So who's French?

Tito Lacle?

Julia Renfo?

Anyone else with a French sounding name?  We know Jossy is not French.


Quote from: "sharon"

I'm too tired to look now -- but is it possible the fetid mongrel remark was made in reference to the Simian 'doppleganger'??

Did Charles Croes have a problem with Tito?? 

I know Shango was pretty confrontational with Simian -- but this was flat out rude 


So...Sandrak is still MIA??? Just another name from Marvel



Quote from “Anna”


Sharon,

YES!!!  As a matter of fact, SandraK is yet another name from Marvel.  You are the only other person who has noticed that that I have seen post!  And that is why I always thought that she and Charles Croes were in the Shango business together.  I wondered if she was Simian or what but always thought because of her also being a character in Marvel that perhaps she was connected to Shango in some manner as well.

What a very good hint there.  You have become a master.  ::MonkeyWink::

LOL  You are really going to confuse everyone now.

LOL...I confused myself this morning...

We know that IFA peeps were involved as early as June 5th, with the search, does anyone recall how quickly that Strategic Task Force was formed?

Just trying to figure out if this was a concerted effort or as Sharon said "a game".

-snipped- (www.al.com link no longer brings up the article)

http://nataleesfreebirds.blogspot.com/2007/07/aruba-accuses-us-government-of.html

Senator Spencer Bachus
U.S. Rep. Spencer Bachus, R-Vestavia Hills, said Saturday there were circumstances surrounding Holloway's disappearance that warranted the FBI being heavily involved. He declined to give details. "The circumstances were disturbing," said Bachus, who formally requested the FBI's involvement. "I can't get into it, but it's something the family is aware of. There was an immediate recognition that this was not simply a teen who wandered off." http://www.al.com/news/birminghamnews/inde...4200.xml&coll=2

I always thought that Bachus' comment related to 'the bullet' in Beth's book.

iirc, the bullet was when she learned that Joran was NOT a vacationing student from Holland as the MB students told her, but rather a local who liked to hit on female tourists.

That's when Beth realized the far reaching implications  ::MonkeyWaa::

imoo

Knowing that Bacchus is a congressman and some of the committees he has been on I think it would be something involving the State department business.  As in, Natalee was with the 3 perps, but the connections the Sloots have is more powerful than anything the family had on their side.  We know the info about the DEA, NSA using Aruba as a listening post for Chavez, and the mafia connections.  Therefore, I would say Bacchus was referring to circumstances being such that not even the USA would be able to do much for Natalee because of the circumstances at the time in other parts of the world.  Bigger fish to fry...as I always say.

So when Charles said this on the 2nd, he must have thought there would be far reaching implications. Hmmm...wonder how he knew?

Things changed...bigger fish to fry?

Thanks for finding that 2NJs...Shock the World?  Same thing as what Bacchus and CC said?

Jug said that later, no?  When the investigation went sour and statements were found in the garbage, etc.  Could be....will we ever know for sure?

Brandi777.....we always try to document things here.  We know there's a lot of conflicting info out there....if in doubt, it's okay to ask....

Not sure when Jug said that...It has stuck in my mind though! Always thought it meant the big picture!

Brandy...What 2NJSons said is correct.  There is so much information out there, and a lot is conflicting. I have always taken what the Family has said before anything else.

If Beth was told there was going to be more arrests, a lot more, and she stated this in an interview, why wasn't there? Did some-one lie to Beth, or did Aruba just change their mind?

Brandi
You have a lot of things confused..but it's okay...the only way to find out is to ask...I am known as the Queen of questions.  LOL

I think that when Beth discovered (when she was able to point Joran out in the tapes at the HI by the description that Jug's nephews gave) that Joran was NOT a vacationing student, but rather a local with a 'reputation', the focus rapidly changed from 'missing' to KIDNAPPED. By a 'judge's son'. An American kidnapped on foreign soil would certainly justify the FBI's involvement.

I think those are some far reaching implications

Beth and Jug knew this already when they went to 'of the ditches' place -- and Charles was there as well.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it  ::MonkeyLaugh::  (except when I think of wiretapping by the FBI, Joran on the 'watch' list, Freddy Freddy Freddy, Martin in Thailand.....)

Everyone else's points sound just as possible   ::MonkeyConfused::

I'm always a day late and a dollar short...

Have always wondered who this guy was in pictures with Joran and his family.
Found the link posted by Resigned at RU. Did everyone know who he was except me?

http://www.bbblegal.com/richie.php

Of course you're not the last to know. That's me  ::MonkeyHaHa::

There is nothing listed (in English) about their practice that would apply to Joran -- except for the little excerpt below from his 'resume'...

Advocaat-Medewerker bij Antonio Carlo Advocaten, Aruba 2005 - 2006  

Nah, you're always on top of everything. I do well to remember my password to log in.  ::MonkeyHaHa::

I remember the name. I guess I never had a face to put with it.  ::MonkeyConfused::

Is he the guy from the pics back in thread 1, when we were looking at Vocking? Sort of looks like him to me. He was at the van der Sloot's house when they were doing interviews?

Anyone? TIA

Yes, exactly.

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a398/vms58/RichieKock.jpg)

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a398/vms58/RichieKock2.jpg)

...and the others when they were at the house when Joran was released...

Thanks vms...I just found it, you are quick...but couldn't have posted the pic anyways  ::MonkeyHaHa:: ...so he worked for Carlo in 2005!

 ::MonkeyHaHa::  Okay, my turn to ask a question about him.....was he the recipient of the a$$ kick by Anita?

From Caps

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1952.2200


Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
« Reply #2204 on: February 18, 2008, 10:38:11 AM » 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ben Vocking came from Holland to take the position of Director at KIA (Prison of Aruba). After he got a incident (fight) with an inmate he was send to the hospital where he was for more than 2 months with head injuries. He was dismissed from KIA and start to work after more than a year and a half disabled, at the Prosecutor's office as an assistant and a help in other justice department. He was introduced in one of the two KIWANIS Club in Aruba, Palm Beach KIWANIS by his neighbor, who happens to be one of the founder of PBKiwanis.

The gentleman in blue shirt that was on the picture is a Dutch of Indonisian descend. I believe he is working with the RST which department of inspectors falls directly under Holland. But we will find out exactly who he is.As his face is also known in the Horeca Industry and might be a friend of the VDS. But my guess will be RST.

snipped

 ::MonkeyHaHa::

I think so, if you compare this one to the others at the house that day.

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a398/vms58/Anitakick.jpg)

Yep.

None of you are ever behind...you are the most on top of everything group I have ever seen.  Don't sell yourselves short. You guys have some of the best information going.

IIRC, the Strategic Task Force was formed by mid June 2005.

iirc, Tamara Waldron's post was on the front page post was June 05, 2005.

The guards had already been arrested.

(but i could be wrong)

 :oops: :oops:

where is that edit button. sorry, I was answering the phone at the same time :oops:

Pardon this post as it is somewhat 'off the current conversation', but I found this today and wanted to share. This has to do with LIONS and MESSENGERS (LEON is Spanish for LION):

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1079027/Pictured-The-Colombian-drugs-gang-captured-private-zoo.html

"Mexican authorities said Sunday that they had arrested more than a dozen members of an alleged drug-trafficking ring in an upscale neighborhood of this capital city, seizing weapons, vehicles - and lions.

Eleven Colombians, a U.S. citizen, two Mexicans and an Uruguayan were detained during a raid in a sprawling mansion in Desierto de los Leones on Saturday, organized-crime prosecutor Marisela Morales told a news conference. (see the 2nd pic on this site of the group of folks arrested - and see the girl in the center w/short dark hair - doesn't she resemble our Natalee a bit??).

Pictured: The Colombian drugs gang captured along with a private zoo filled with big cats.

"...Mexican authorities said Sunday that they had arrested more than a dozen members of an alleged drug-trafficking ring in an upscale neighborhood of this capital city, seizing weapons, vehicles - and lions.

"...Exotic pet: An African lion in captivity is pictured at the house where members of a drug trafficking gang were arrested.."

"Nine Mexicans working as waiters and disk jockeys were briefly held and released. Authorities had been investigating the group since 2005, the prosecutor said. 'This is important, because it breaks a logistic link in the chain that supplies Mexican cartels with cocaine,' she said.

The mansion , whose walls, ceilings and furniture are made almost entirely of ornately carved wood, appeared to have been used by the traffickers for parties on nights and weekends, authorities said.-->THE PRIVATE RAVE PARTY?

Those who received invitations were picked up at nearby shopping-center parking lots in vehicles with blacked-out windows to prevent them from seeing where they were going. -->POISON NOTES? ...WHAT WAS WRITTEN DOWN?

The mansion was equipped with a private zoo housing a collection of animals including two tigers and two lions. Police turned the exotic animals over to prosecutors. It was unclear what they planned to do with them

********
Besides "Leones' meaning LION, I remember reading about Santeria religion, and how mystical items (such as cats, etc) can be considered 'messengers'. IMHO I never got the impression that 'feeding messengers' was anything other than either cats, animals, etc, that this avenger of justice Shango thought in his/her own religion were messengers. In the link below,  "Babalu" (a cat) was named so because it meant 'holiness' in the the Afro/ Cuban Santeria religion. The one who named the cat thought it was a mystical cat, and perhaps a messenger from other portals. This is just one example. Just an FYI. And if the Shango posts came from FLORIDA, a place where Paulus traveled, perhaps there is such a mansion in Miami where exotic animals, etc, are in fact housed... just 'thinking out of the box' like y'all told us to!!!!!!!!
http://www.nowpublic.com/world/true-stroy-about-magical-cat )

Good work!  Now all you need to do is find that mansion.

Ummmmm -- we have Metro Zoo.

 ::MonkeyLaugh:: ::MonkeyLaugh::

Thanks for posting that, Poochy. That is unbelievable. It sounds like a plot for a movie.  :shock:

Does anyone else remember the weird, gated house Bondia sent BB to on her trip to Aruba? I doubt there was any credibility to that tip because it came from "the Bondias" but it was a strange looking place...

 ::MonkeyLaugh:: ::MonkeyLaugh:: and that laugh is for the Chuckster once again being the all seeing/all knowing Aruba expert on everything!
 
http://www.aruba.com/forum/f7/zoo-1120/

04-12-2005, 04:46 PM    post #1 (permalink)   

Pam
Guest
Posts: n/a  Zoo?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Is there a zoo in Aruba?

04-12-2005, 05:13 PM    post #2 (permalink)   


charles
Guest
Posts: n/a  Re: Zoo?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Used to be one. It was sort of a collection of animals that was in an area known as Moko. It was a private Zoo and is now no longer in wexistance.

charles
arubafastphones.com

Jim
Guest
Posts: n/a  Re: Zoo?
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Ostrich Farm and donkey's.   
 

04-12-2005, 09:06 PM    post #4 (permalink)   
Sandra
Guest
Posts: n/a  Re: Zoo?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
There is still a zoo like park at Kibaima. It's near the Drive-inn theater.


04-13-2005, 06:59 AM    post #5 (permalink)   

Mick
Guest
Posts: n/a  Re: Zoo?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You can go to the butterfly farm, donkey farm and the ostrich farm. check at resort to find out times they are open. 

04-13-2005, 02:06 PM    post #8 (permalink)   

charles
Guest
Posts: n/a  Re: Zoo?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
By the way, while the above responses are all correct, my answer was based on a collection of animals in a ZOO like condition and not individual animal farms. The donkey, ostrich and butterfly farms are a delight for kids and should be seen by all.

Kibaima??? Welllll.
Charles
arubafastphones.com

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a398/vms58/mokozoo.jpg)

My bet would be either in Miami, Santa Marta, Colombia or Moko (yes, there IS A MOKO, ARKANSAS!!)
 
Merian Ernest   7/13/05 5:51 pm -- Find Aruba. Find the Haystack. Find Santa Marta. Trace with your finger what the Antenna has spoken about. Unleash the dogs. Inch by inch…grid by grid.

Simian Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:14 am  -- The road from the boy’s home leads to the dirty water. Look for Noord and look for Moko. The cowboys feet are wet. They are not quickdraws, they will creep by the inch. It’s deep and wide. The Babylonians need this, before time runs out.

Simian Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:33 am -- Find Aruba. Look for Noord. Look for Montaña. Look for Moko. Let your fingers connect the dots. The cowboys feet are deeper in the dirty water. The vultures are hanging around and are ready to pounce. Hang on to your tubes. The Simian doesn’t want to be right
.

Those 'Sumerians' own quite a bit of real estate don't they  ::MonkeyCool::

I am reading and trying to keep up.  All of these thoughts are really great.  Didn't one of the code talkers mention donkey bones at one time?

re teams/partners sharing nics
IMO it's really obvious sometimes:

caps/lower case vs all lower case
complete sentences vs short phrases
spacing/punctuation
spelling/grammar
style/personality

shock and DanMar were multiples
and so was Peeps

the bondias were officially allowed to share a nic

that being said, if multiples were posting as shango
they were the very best at staying w/ the script

I don't see differences/variations
in any of the shango posts

re sim's doppelganger:
it wasn't always a doppelganger

that gets confused w/ sim having a short fuse
and giving in to her penchant for sarcasm
especially after her predictions re june 27
failed to materialize

there were many impersonations on the FP
and lotsa shout-outs to the admins
requesting that the situation be controlled

confirmation by e-mail notwithstanding,
I'm still not sold on Armin-is-simian

finbar pointed us in the direction indicated by geneaology:
Armin = correct family tree but wrong cousin IMO
and if your cousin won't cover for you, who will, LOL?

and I understand why fin's/my candidate for simian
would be protected by some here
since she shared private info obtained thru a govt data base
provided by her employer

can't go back and change things now
but it's a crying shame
that the "other team"' was welcomed here w/ open arms ...
and even defended when their BS was questioned

we can google ourselves into a disordered state
or we can keep shango's advice in mind:
The simplicity of Occams Razor is often outweighed by the complexity of maintaining factors in an elemental state.

Simian Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:14 am -- The road from the boy’s home leads to the dirty water. Look for Noord and look for Moko.

Simian Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:33 am -- Find Aruba. Look for Noord. Look for Montaña. Look for Moko. Let your fingers connect the dots.

Noord > Montana /Montanja > Moko
in that order, inland from the west coast,
lie in a straight line on any map of aruba

Merian Ernest 7/13/05 5:51 pm -- Find Aruba. Find the Haystack. Find Santa Marta. Trace with your finger what the Antenna has spoken about.

Santa Marta is a region fairly near Hooiberg (dutch for haystack)
and possibly not too far off the direct line
between Montanja and Moko
(I'm having trouble finding the right maps tonight)
http://aruba.globaldirectories.com/Maps/5.html

From Natalee's Freebirds...Lots of Interesting reading over there...

Jug Twitty
'Scarborough Country'
July 1, 2005
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8485048/

TWITTY: If they let them walk on this island after what Beth and I know, there's a lot of information that we have that we cannot share, because it would jeopardize the investigation. But if they let them walk, we can share it. And it would be devastating. The United States, the world will be amazed.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=615.20

Goodship Lollipop, Aruba
"Miraclist" described, 6/4/05.......

Thanks Pita and Sharon...From Natalee's Freebirds...Tamara Waldron and Gabe Leo's posts are documented in the first post, as well as the members...

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=615.0

Jorge Pesquera, The President of the Aruban Hotel and Tourism Association (AHATA) put this Task Force together – with member selection help and input from Joran’s attorney Antonio Carlo, and Mark Purcell’s wife Marlene.

On June 30, 2005 Aruban Prime Minister Nelson Oduber makes this telling statement about the effectiveness of this hand picked Task Force.

Prime Minister Nelson Oduber presents “anti incorrect news” committee

“The committee has been working for some time behind the screens without too much publicity, and function on behalf of the people of Aruba in order to minimize the impact of the negative news that is being sent out” The basic mission of the committee is to bring correct information and counteract all publications that are not based on the truth and to explain the function of our judicial institutions and how they operate.”

http://news.caribseek.com/set-up/exec/view.cgi?archive=71&num=16318

Still would like to know if the FBI in charge in Miami was Jorge's brother and if this guy's son who was the one that gave the OK to shred documents in an important case is Jorge's nephew?

This post reminded me of Maison Madruga. sp! Owned by Fernando Mansur!

Vms...I recall a house that Florida was posting about, think it was her, out in the middle of nowhere. Is this the one you are thinking about?

Anyone still have contact with BB to ask?

Mum, I thought the same regarding Maison Madruga.

(http://a895.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/25/l_82b32e9e01c6e57395c9900f2c709196.jpg)
http://www.myspace.com/mosaic_aruba

Mum, is this the house you might be thinking Florida posted about?

(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m153/CMPM/WhiteVan.jpg)

Here's an article from a 12/12/07 issue of Solo Di Pueblo.  Can anybody translate?

(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m153/CMPM/MokoZoo.jpg)

I don't know what Maison Madruga looks like on the outside so who knows?

Should have never mentioned it because my memory is so flawed. Don't hold me to any of this because time and my imagination could have added to what I remember.  ::MonkeyHaHa::
 


A tall wrought iron gate surrounding it with circle medallions with initials.

Lots of statues.

Directions were to go to a known landmark and it was right across from it. I cannot remember what the landmark was now, lol...maybe a church?

The words zoo and Mansur. That's why it came to mind after reading Poochy's post...

Sheesh, I meant fence.... :roll:

I'm confused  ::MonkeyConfused::

This is supposed to be in Florida (I believe poochy says Miami)????

Ummmmm -- 'maison' is French, not Spanish. Spanish would be 'casa'. The only areas of Miami where French is even possible would be Little Haiti -- but that is really 'patois', not French.

But if you're all so sure -- please provide additional info if possible and I will find it for you if it exists. I really don't want to be driving around Little Haiti without a goal in mind  ::MonkeyHaHa::


Sorry if I sound frustrated  ::MonkeyConfused:: But I spent about 2 years looking for the 'Harley Davidson' place that was posted all over Natalee's thread as being in Miami. And although I will swear on oath that IT IS NOT in Miami, that doesn't seem to change what people post.


BTW -- I don't want to repost if no one is interested, but Nuttracked down a professor at FIU (Florida Atlantic U) "Miguel Willy Ramos" who is also know as Ilari Oba and sometimes 'Shango' who's written lot's of stuff on Santeria -- is considered something akin to the grand poobah. And I believe one of Arubans (Jairo?? or Gabriel Leo??) who lives in Ft Lauderdale attended FIU at the same time, iirc.

No...Thanks...It was discussed when I was reading and not a member. Think you could see the ocean in the background.

Or maybe my memory is just wrong!

Pita...I couldn't copy that into the papi translator...Sorry!

http://www.donamaro.nl/papiamentu/

Finn…Sorry I can’t add any more to the Simian/Armin discussion. I came to my conclusions from what Klaas posted as the “Real Simian Posts” and the discussions and research in thread 3. I didn’t add anything, just questioned and commented on vms’ and Rob’s posts.

Quote Finn
we can google ourselves into a disordered state
or we can keep shango's advice in mind:
The simplicity of Occams Razor is often outweighed by the complexity of maintaining factors in an elemental state.

Finn, respectfully it was Occams Razor that led me to Charles Croes, a wannabe writer as Shango. Decided to take the simple approach…Light the fires…The Fires of St. John, The Gods are talking…Shango is a God…Why did the girl owe money…because Joran told CC she did that night the family arrived.

And yes, I have googled CC for more hours than I care to mention, but you would be very surprised what one can glean by googling different combinations with Charles Croes. It tells me that Charles Croes knows way more than he has shared.

One thing I haven’t found is what he did prior to 2001 and his Hugo Boss store. He was active in the Tourism and Hospitality business, that is documented. Haven’t found what he did when he lived in Florida either. Have my suspicions, but they won’t ever be verified.

His “major friend” is Eric Williams. He disappeared for hours the night the family arrived. He has ties to La Cabana. I know he is friends with Julia Renfro, and many others that have proved to be friends of the van der Sloots. International Friends of Aruba comes to mind. I also know that he was suspected of monitoring the families cell phones and was seen in Dennis Jacob’s office.

 
I am not saying that multiple were posting as Shango, just that some of the language used has spilled over to other posters. Were they copy cats or were these posters all intertwined?
 

I believe there was a concerted effort, by the Strategic Task Force and the Aruban government to confuse. Were the FP posts part of this effort? The Vanity Fair interviews in January 2006, CC, Julia and Dompig coincide with the Strategic Task Force hiring Steve Cohen late in 2005, to get the word out through the US Media.


BTW…It was Feed the Messengers that has always had multiple meanings for me…From feeding the messenger lines on boats, feeding the press, and feeding the other posters. Feeding the cats...another interesting one...May just be the repetitive lines of a wannabe writer…But shango does say he has his own messengers.


Quote from our friend Carlos S. Tromp… Maybe he is Shango?  ::MonkeyWink::
Whistle blowers, like messengers in war tend to get shot in the Dutch judicial system, in which the "old boys network" tends to cover up failures of justice of both prosecutors and justices and in the background the police and other justice officials.
 

 
 

Given Shango's penchant for Occam...we can simply say that Natalee left with 3 men and never returned...something bad happened. That is as far as we can go with that premise.  Shango tells about a mystery man that knows all and sees all and we are to keep it simple?   Shango tells us about gamblers and lions and elders and a game and we are to keep it simple?  Shango tells us about a house of rave and drugs and movies and we are to keep it simple?  Shango should have taken his own advice.  That sounds like CC to me...he never kept it simple in his dealings at any time...he was always the grandiose writer that wanted the glory for himself.  His own family had issues with him...he was a liar. Of course none of my rantings does anything to identify our mystery man...so I guess I am ranting again. LOL

For future reference…Link to Natalee thread…Posts on Richie Kock’s credentials in Dutch and English, and to the Fox News article regarding Amelin Flanigan going to Quantico.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=3437.940

Richie Kock

Re: Natalee Case Discussion #771 10/4/08 -
« Reply #945 on: Today at 09:51:13 AM » Mum




Amelin Flanigan

Re: Natalee Case Discussion #771 10/4/08 -
« Reply #944 on: Today at 09:39:26 AM » VMS

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:49 pm

The maze offers many hidden desires, deflowerings of forbidden fruits.
DirtyHand knows. So does the elder (Paulus). The lamb (Joran) is a scapegoat.

Here's an interesting link about 'FORBIDDEN FRUIT'

http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=57200 

Forbidden Fruit 
Brugmansia & MDMA (Ecstasy)  by Eve...*****


   

          (and the gardners.....!)

Natalee was given the poison wine of Bacchus (laced w/XTC).

Deflowering - this can also mean taking the Brugmansia trumpet shaped flower and 'deflowering=pulling off the flowers' to make MDMA. The gardners tend to these trees or tend to the flowers imported to this trampoline island to make XTC.

http://www.erowid.org/plants/brugmansia/   (see flower on this page) - belladonna... etc. 

The Brugmansia is a small to mid-size tree with large, strong-smelling, trumpet-shaped flowers hanging downward. Most parts of the plant contain atropine, scopolamine and hyoscyamine. It has been used as an admixture plant in ayahuasca brews as well as in poisons and medicines in S. America.

(now if we can only figure out what or where the MAZE/LABRYNTH is!)!!!!

there is the palace (all gates need to be shut)
and then there is Babylon's palace

the maze of Babylon (the house with a path to the maze)
difficult for the supposed guilty, even if innocent     http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRK-CQVQevQ

and who has the elder (the fallen "judge") contacted in Babylon
hidden whispers plans for the future
OMERTA

PVDS-charged with complicity

Try this:

Palace = The Hague -- or -- the "Palace of Justice" in Bogata, Colomboa
Gates = Legal Loopholes.
Gates shut = Ensure there are absolutely NO Legal Loopholes.

Paulus broke one gate - he said 'one witness is no witness'.
Paulus said he would waive his right to NOT testify against his son, meaning he WOULD testify.
But because he told Joran to bite his tongue, to shut up, Paulus talked, Joran did not, and w/out a body, ONE WITNESS (Paulus) IS NO WITNESS.  So yet again a legal loophole - a gate was broken. Babylon knows Paulus knows his way around the legal system. They have to make sure all gates are shut - no more loopholes like that one.
 
Paulus = Elder / Fallen Elder
The hammer and the block = The judge / The hammer and block owned by someone (have no clue who that is) = Fallen Judge.
 
And, IMHO - the MAZE = Colombian traffickers/drug Lords - perhaps on the island under guise of Soul Beach Music Festival.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E0CE3D81538F937A25752C0A964958260
Colombia's Drug Lords

Add New Product: Heroin for U.S. - New York ...The Colombians' venture into the heroin trade has many law-enforcement officials concerned because the Colombian traffickers operate a maze of international ...
query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E0CE3D81538F937A25752C0A964958260 - 36k - Cached - Similar pages

Another reference to 'palace':
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palace_of_Justice_siege

Colombia orders arrest of ex-general
BOGOTA, Colombia — Prosecutors have ordered the arrest of a second retired general in the disappearance of 12 people during the Colombian army's bloody 1985 retaking of the Palace of Justice from leftist rebels.

The general, Jesus Armando Arias, led Bogota's army brigade during the assault. Soldiers under his command escorted the disappeared — 11 cafeteria workers and a captured rebel — out of the palace after the military stormed it. Armed rebels seized the courts that same day.

At least 100 people, including judges, were killed in the clash. The arrest order for Arias was confirmed Friday by prosecutor Omar Zarabanda. Ten former soldiers have been arrested in the case since Colombia's chief prosecutor reopened it three years ago.

au contraire, IMO ...

Occam's Razor/a medieval principle:
"All other things being equal, the simplest solution is the best."

or "Entities must not be multiplied beyond necessity".

or "Plurality should not be posited without necessity".

In other words, when multiple competing theories are equal in other respects, the principle recommends selecting the theory that introduces the fewest assumptions and postulates the fewest entities. It is in this sense that Occam's razor is usually understood.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ockham_razor

in context, shango's reference to Occam
was in reply to another poster

Anne on June 26th, 2005 5:45 pm
Kristin: I don’t know anymore who the singing Babylonian would be, really. And edie, I don’t really know about Joran, either. Instinctually I believe he is guilty (Occam’s Razor) but since the politician in US said this case is different than any other missing/kidnapping case, I suspect perhaps he might have been a convenient scapegoat. He and Dad might be involved in some bad business, but what our Aruban friends here intimate is that it’s nowhere near as pervasive or insidious as that of “DirtyHand” - or whomever is truly responsible for Natalee’ s ultimate fate. Not even sure if I’m in the right church, let alone pew.

Shango on June 26th, 2005 5:48 pm
The simplicity of Occams Razor is often outweighed by the complexity of maintaining factors in an elemental state.

elemental: basic/simple/underlying

shango wasn't advising anyone to keep it simple ...
but pointing out how difficult it sometimes becomes
to remain focused in a complex situation

meaning that the true picture
often contains much more than initially imagined
and that Occam's Razor is hard to apply here

shango's story is quite simple
but the language/style makes it seem
more than what it is

minus the catchy caribbean phraseology,
it is frequently portrayed on the lifetime channel ...
"television for women"

a basic lifetime channel scenario
is a female harmed/assaulted/endangered/murdered/etc
by one or more males
w/ an ensuing cover-up enabled by other males

the basics include, but aren't limited to,
little boys/big boys (children of the elders)
who swing into action using whatever powers
they can muster to keep the game going
and minimize/avoid an unfavorable outcome:

pervert deputy - crooked sheriff condones it
pervert athlete - coach w/ winning team condones it
pervert student - disbelieving principal condones it
violent ex/stalker - ineffective court system condones it
etc

using these examples in NH's case, per shango,
the sheriff/coach/principal/court system
were not only covering for one of their own ...
they were in on the game

I get it that involved parties and their minions
came to the various forums to spread misinformation
but why does that negate what many of the locals
were sharing in the first 30 days?

LvR drew the short straw at the meeting
so his name/his bad rep was bandied about
for no good reason?

hindsight being 20/20, does sim's 5th suspect
fit w/ what was rumored early on?

does shango's "old boys network"
fit w/ what came to light re the obvious cover-up?

I didn't need shango to tell me that something
went terribly wrong down there:

a small-town environment
corrupted by a constant party atmosphere
which was a breeding ground
where kids w/o direction pretty much ran wild,
drinking/gambling in clubs/casinos
and preying on tourists
while their parents made excuses for them

not to mention what the adults were into ...
and it all blew up on the international stage

easily thousands of people who never visited a forum
think this whole ordeal reeks of cover-up
and they concluded that w/o the codetalkers

shango had a very small audience
but in retrospect the detail provided
seems more likely than not

there are santa marta(s) and moko(s) all over the planet
but why would we look at those when,
in context at the time of the TES search,
sim was naming those particular aruban locations?

that is a very recent example (and no offense intended)
but my point a few posts back re googling
was that we often find ourselves way far beyond
the reasonable scope of inquiry

which accomplishes ... what?

I won't be around much this weekend
or have time to do more than some quick reading
so have at kicking my ass around for a couple days, LOL

laters  :cool:

PS: I liked this from the Occam wiki page:
When discussing Occam's razor in contemporary medicine, doctors and philosophers of medicine speak of diagnostic parsimony. Diagnostic parsimony advocates that when diagnosing a given injury, ailment, illness or disease, a doctor should strive to look for the fewest possible causes that will account for all the symptoms. While diagnostic parsimony might often be beneficial, credence should also be given to the counter-argument modernly known as Hickam's dictum, which succinctly states that "patients can have as many diseases as they damn well please."

Whatever.

I have often wondered why those in this thread who seek the identity of Shango do not consider Lorenzo as one of the possibilities.  He would have a full knowledge of island lore, esoteric religions and the darker beliefs as practised in the Caribbean and especially the underbelly of the Aruban society.  I am sure I remember his name being considered early in the Shango history but although my memory is good my search skills are limited in finding links.                 

Tibro
So nice to see you in here.  I suppose Lorenzo would be as good a guess as any at this point.  As you can see it's anybody's guess and I doubt we will ever know unless Shango confesses.  That is what it took for us to find Simian.  Wonder what my chances of asking Lorenzo about Shango would be?  ::MonkeyCool::

enter the maze :shock:

 ::MonkeyHaHa::

I am very, very frustrated at this point.  Where is Caps?  What has happened to Parts 3, 4, and 5 of the Diario articles?  Has anyone been able to tell us how the people of Aruba responded when Diario exposed the witness who saw Urine walking at 4:05 near Manserat?  What has happened regarding a search of the Masonic cemetery?  Why are there no further attempts to explore the sites identified by Persistence?  What has happened with the fabric that Quantico tested from the lobster trap?  ALE claims that there was nothing in the trap, so why did the FBI test fabric?  Who are the additional witnesses taking polygraphs in the US?  I thought TES was planning to return for additional searches?  Where is Urine at this point?  Has Paulass been questioned about the statements made by Jossy's witness?  Paulass and his friends have now had two months to create a new story about being seen near Manserat.  I feel like this complete lack of information about recent developments has broken my/our focus on current developments.  Is this the purpose of the silence?

Hmmmmmmmmm!!!!!

The pond, the fish trap and the crypts.....No wonder I am confused. ::MonkeyConfused::

Hi Tib...nice to see you...Interesting, along with the other choices. All ones I have never considered!

Posted by klaas in NAH...The Orange Regal Visage...Noble son? And Lions ...Oh My!

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=3437.msg516581


Aruba
Acting Governor sworn in
October 25, 2008, 15:29 (GMT -04:00)

ORANJESTAD - Alicia Angela (Ella) Tromp-Yarzagaray was yesterday sworn in by Governor Fredis Refunjol to acting governor of Aruba. She succeeds official Christina van den Berg-de Freitas that the function fulfilled eight years.

Refunjol expressed its thanks and appreciation to Van den Berg-de Freitas for her great dedication and merit. This was the year she already appointed Officer of the Order of Orange-Nassau, the highest royal honor. Upcoming Monday there is a special session in the States where the new acting governor's office will accept. Tromp-Yarzagaray was originally derived from education and has in the past several positions, both in the administration and on the social level. So she was twice Minister Plenipotentiary of Aruba in Den Haag, Minister of Finance, Public Works and Health, Aruban Member of the consultative mechanism of the Kingdom with Venezuela and member of the States of Aruba. In the social field it is supporting member (intention) of various committees in the charity sector, particularly for the elderly and the youth. In 1992, she was distinguished in the Order Francisco de Miranda of Venezuela, and in 1994 she was honored as Knight of the Order of the Dutch Lion.  Tromp-Yarzagaray in 2006 was also chairman of the committee that the visit of Queen Beatrix prepared.

http://www.amigoe.com/artman/publish/printer_48449.php
 
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Found this at websleuths...

The Murder Mansion was an appropriate setting for what Rocky Infelise had in mind. He told the skittish Jahoda a few short hours before a well-planned murder to lead the unsuspecting Bobby Plummer up the flight of stairs to the second-floor casino and "just keep going." Plummer was a "revenue collector" for Ferriola, and a gambler of long standing in the northern suburbs. He also operated the Front Runner Messenger Service, a horse-betting parlor in Highwood belonging to Michael Posner, a protégé of Ferriola and a kingpin in Lake County mob vice operations. Plummer, of north suburban Lake Forest, was attacked on the stairway and savagely beaten to death. His body was found in the trunk of his wife's Lincoln Continental in a Mundelein Holiday Inn parking lot. Jahoda still cannot forget the horrible death cries of Plummer as he was dispatched from this world.

Also, at Mafia International, the "Chicago Outfit Organizational Chart" indicates Posner was "on parole" as of 1997.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32526

Seem to remember seeing something about that in this thread.....but the poster escapes me ::MonkeyHaHa::

lotsa Shango in that.......

with some observations highlighted:
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2886.msg393140#msg393140

are insects conned into entering venus flytraps?

http://www.visitaruba.com/facts/newsdesk/backissues/newsletter55.html#story9

The Wyndham introduces a new Havana Tropical show

The Wyndham Cabaret Royale played host to the island's glittering set for opening night of the dinner/theater's new season. The intimate room serves dinner every night, then the show, Havana Tropicale features eight Cuban born dancers, singing sensation Sacha Figaroa - she was born and raised in Aruba, a new male lead singer - directly from Cuba, back up vocalists Idarmis & Albert, and a live band. The band leader is no other than talented local pianist Johnny Scharbaai. Havana Tropicale showcases costumes and rhythm and beautiful bodies who move to the music, some songs are genuinely Cuban, but many numbers are Latin and familiar to the audience. One of the new choreographies introduced is the classic stage favorite, Cabaret, starring Sacha as the quirky emcee in top hat and pink bodice. The number allows her to play with her audience as she lets her fans follow the well-known lyrics with her. New York, New York also makes its debut winking at the brave city that doesn't sleep. The show's lead singer dances through this popular number in a white Travolta suit and white shoes. His prima ballerina stage companion wears a frilly tutu, a perfect 60's platinum blonde wig on her head. A hot edition to this year's line up is the remake of the French naughty Voulez Vous Coucher Avec Moi, renamed Madame Marmalade, as seen in the movie Moulin Rouge. Sacha sashays around in mountains of purple tulle looking absolutely ravishing. Her wardrobe changes with every song, from a white halter top to a slinky yellow body clutcher with a mesh middle. A roaring 20s short gold lame dress with long flinging fringe accompanies Guantanamera, for a perfect Latin throwback to Havana in the old days. Then La Bomba erupts and the audience goes crazy, gyrating hips, flailing arms, rotating backsides for a moment of great audience participation. For the finale, the girls get some boys from the audience on stage and show them what it means to dance. The boys must work hard to keep up with the professionals. Apparently, owner Alfonso Riverol went to Cuba himself for the auditions and picked only the cream of the crop. It's a dirty job, he banters, but it must be done. Alfonso Riverol is a great host and he put the party together with his very experienced resort staff. As his guest of honor he invited Zizi Lee, first runner up Miss World, Aruba's most famous citizen. The tall and gorgeous beauty queen was escorted by her family members. Parties at the Wyndham are always generous, and the food on the buffet was exceptional: mini lamb chops, giant shrimp cooked in cream and Pernod, crab cakes and beautiful canapés. Free flowing drinks from the bar made the event ever so easier to handle. General Manager Rob Smith and Director of Operations Joe Najjar greeted their guests and mingled with other general managers from the strip among them Jeff Lesker from the Radisson and Barry Kaplan from the Hyatt.s promi

Shango: "if the house of babylon is to remain erect....."

I recall some-one marrying a Cuban dancer he met while she was performing in Aruba...around that time too, I think...

Do we have any information about what will be included in the upcoming Peter de Vries presentation on November 8th?  Caps seemed pretty excited about it, so he must know what Peter will be revealing.  Peter has been promising us since last February that he will bring Paulass down.

Well thanks for explaining what Caps meant by 'the 8th'!

(Sorry, I have no info about Nov. 8th, just wanted to thank you for sharing that!)

I found a few mob slang websites and listed them below. Matched some codetalker verses to the slang. Maybe some fit, maybe some don't.  So, for what it's worth:

Broken: demoted in rank; "knocked down"

     Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:58 pm
     Arawaks want to make cowboys happy. Babylonians want to maintain
     integrity of Great House. Gods of the cowboys know there was a game
     in the great house, and so DirtyHand was discovered. But the sacrifice
     will be offered before dirty hand sings. He will return to babylon,
     broken but anonymous.

     Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 6:02 pm
     The babylonians are to blame. The arawaks were worried about teepees and
     the cowboys. They did not bring DirtyHand into the Tribe! He will go back
     to babylon broken, after the sacrifice is eaten.

     Merian Ernest 7/27/05 9:09am
     Guarding the door is Janus still. Who is strong, never broken and never will.
     Do not mock, for those who unknowingly cut their hands with swords have pure hearts.
     The Simian did not fill the salina with water or mud. Many want to engage, yet defeated
     will not admit. Not a little, not a lot. One after the other one stone will tumble the
     next. In a game of men a lot is said. Papi the Butterfly had the hand for double play
     and broke the game. Speak now and save Ganga’s face. Who heeded the jaguar’s rising?
     The noble son of the sun breaking through.

     Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:03 pm
     The alibi needs to be broken. The dogs have pouches on their feet.
     They are checking the dirty waters in Noord. The Babylonians know what
     the girl did earlier in the week. Therein lies the motive. The third act will played
     soon, but the boy is not Ajax. He is too afraid to pull off such a feat.

Cafone: a phony or embarrassment to himself and others; "gavone"
(slang pronunciation) Gavone: see cafone

     Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:24 pm
     The boy is no Ajax. He is too afraid of the consequences. He doesn’t
     want to be made a cafone. The third act needs to be played
     and the cowboys will be heroes. This is all a “lugubrious game” to them.
     They were all at the party and all of them are turning their heads.
     One of them needs to be pinched.

Burn: to murder; synonyms: break an egg, clip, do a piece of work, hit, ice, pop,
put out a contract on, whack.

     Simian Says: June 25th, 2005 at 7:59 pm
     The fires burned high and bright. Even Saint John denied he knew.
     The smoke will clear soon. The elder can’t deny. The son can’t talk.
     He is biting off his tongue. His sore and bloody tongue. The hope rests on
     the cowboys finding their own.

     Merian Ernest 7/26/05 2:49pm
     The Simian does not know how the salina got filled. Do not engage.
     The bifrons lurks in the shadows. Such special boys won’t burn their fingers.
     Enter the macamba to squeal on the black bellied tree ducks

     Merian Ernest 7/13/05 4:56pm
     Swinging from a building ain’t easy. Merian has many Babylonian friends.
     Primates are not indigenous to the land, but make no mistake still a cousin
     to the great Cacique macuarima.  Look tomorrow for the Palace will rumble.
     Eyes burning in the xenon. Rotten packages from The Hague will make
     or break the losers. The palace servants have to choose sides now to avoid
     embarrassment.
 
Loanshark: someone who lends mob money at an exorbitant interest rate; a shylock.

     Joran said Natalee wanted to see 'SHARKS'. (loan sharks - why did the
     girl owe money? She spent her nights at their tables. They saw what was written down).
     Joran's first confession was about helping the girl win back her money at the black
     jack table. This could very well have been a case of mistaken identity. Taking Natalee
     to see someone who she owed money to for gambling during the week, but it wasn't Natalee
     who owed the $, it was her friend...

Pinched: arrested.

     Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:24 pm
     The boy is no Ajax. He is too afraid of the consequences. He doesn’t want
     to be made a cafone. The third act needs to be played and the cowboys will
     be heroes. This is all a “lugubrious game” to them. They were all at the party
     and all of them are turning their heads.One of them needs to be pinched.

Rat: a member who violates Omertá; synonyms: squealer, canary, snitch, stool pigeon,
yellow dog

     Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 6:12 pm
     A whiskered rat will pause in repose, and then drink a cup of gravy.

Forbidden fruit: The lure of a wiseguy to a nice Italian girl from the neighborhood.

     Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:30 pm
     You always find forbidden desiresin the small houses of Babylon.
     The girl knew this. Find DirtyHand! He too walked in this house of Babylon.
     But not to satiate desire.

Arm - Nickname for the Buffalo-Niagara Falls Mafia family

     Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:27 pm
     The elder had to come clean. He knows what damaged he had caused.
     The Simian said to not shake the wire, ‘cause the bird would fly away.
     The Simian would never pose. Go back and read what the Simian wrote.
     The Babylonians knows what happened, but they are up in arms.
     The gamblers knew the girl.

Connected - A description of a Mafia "associate."

     Simian Says: June 27th, 2005 at 12:20 pm
     The cowboys have their feet deep in the dirty water.
     They are confident in their equipment. Babylonians are there to pick
     up when necessary. From Montana to Moko there is not much to walk.
     The monkey is connected to a microwave. The monsters have come to eat
     from the anguished. The birdie has come down from the cable.  We have
     to wait a while until it becomes known to all why he leaves all
     his dogs dead there.

Father - Antiquated term for the leader of a Mafia family. See "Boss."

     Simian Says: June 25th, 2005 at 7:50 pm
     Only one piece is missing. Around the pool the Hindus were told what to say.
     They did not know why. They were asked to protect the boy.
     The father was not there, but he knew what to do.
     The Hindus thought the girl would reappear.

     Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 3:31 pm
     The father was confronted with evidence. Can’t confirm if it’s
     from the cars of the house. They needed this to make him talk

     Simian Says: June 25th, 2005 at 7:28 pm
     The father is trapped in a legal check mate. The boy is mutilating
     his own tongue. He doesn’t want to let the old man down.

     Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 3:10 pm
     Father is a suspect of the disappearance.

     Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 4:02 pm
     The Kalpoes have nothing to spill. They don’t what the father did.
     Only Joran knows why he called his Dad in the middle of the night.

     Simian Says: June 24, 2005 at 6:06 pm
     I ponder the evidence of sex and drugs with the father.
     It was to hard for her and she could not handle the pressure. I am done.
     I am leaving now…..

Grease- See "buy."

     Merian Ernest 7/26/05 3:51pm
     The Multi fractions spell democracy to the Simian. The tyranny of
     duality does not live in the conuco. Yes or no are not the only answers.
     Pick up the pieces and make an island. Only the one who chopped it down 
     understands. Sell your convictions to try and understand. Start anew, a
     new man. Who says the one who broke is the one who knows? Look by the haystack
     in the small hours. They live in the conuco, but they are the only ones who
     can open the palace doors. The federales should be careful not to grease
     the palace floors. The robed ones will squeeze an escape through passageways
     used once before. The checkmate is the same the tables might have turned.
     There are no donkeys or mules in chess only horses.

Heat - Intense attention from law enforcement and/or media.

     Could refer to many references of 'light the fires'- put the heat on.
     Turn the heat up, etc.


Ice - Another term for murder. Also refers to a delaying tactic, as in
"keep him on ice."

    Coffeepotghost got alot of 'clues' about Natalee and ICE.

Rat - To provide information to law enforcement about criminal activities of
underworld associates. One who provides such information or who appears
likely to give in to law enforcement pressure. See "stool pigeon."

     Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 6:12 pm
     A whiskered rat will pause in repose, and then drink a cup of gravy.

Wire-An electronic surveillance device secretly worn inside the clothing
of an agent or a cooperating mobster. Also the name of a gambling racket
involving the transmission of horse race results or other sporting results
(as depicted in the movie "The Sting.")

     Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:10 pm
     The last hope rests on the shoulders of the cowboys.
     Ten days, two down, eight to go. The elder knows the passages in the
     palace too well. The Babylonians are afraid they might not be able
     to stop him. Don’t shake the wire, ‘cause the bird will fy away.

Clock: to keep track of someone's movements and activities.

     Merian Ernest 7/14/05 4:45pm
     A new line has been set. The clock re-arranged. Ha! Antennas that talk
     about what they saw. They know he went back, but what did he do? The
     voulchers with their xenons don’t even understand this. Dutch bugs
     zooming by fast. So fast they don’t make a sound. The head Babylonian
     likes the old cowboy and tells him secrets so he can ride longer. Do
     remember that the cowboys don’t have badges. They should not trespass.
     Silent witnesses can be thrown out of the courtroom.

Big house: Jail. A state or federal penitentiary. (Could "Great House:
mean Federal Penitentiary? Who was serving time in there that maybe got out
and was hiding in Aruba? Could that be the game that was played?)

     Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:54 pm
     The Arawaks are not going to sacrifice a scapegoat. Babylon needs to
     allow one sacrifice to keep DirtyHand hidden. Babylon scared of
     DirtyHand. Arawaks scared of DirtyHand. If sacrifice is made, teepees
     are safe, villagers and cowboys happy. If DirtyHand discovered, House
     of Babylon falls, Teepees crushed under great house.

     Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:58 pm
     Arawaks want to make cowboys happy. Babylonians want to maintain
     integrity of Great House. Gods of the cowboys know there was a game
     in the great house, and so DirtyHand was discovered. But the
     sacrifice will be offered before dirty hand sings. He will return to
     babylon, broken but anonymous.

Numbers:  A profitable illegal lottery run by the Mafia

     7:16 AM  the grey whisper said...
     is freddy's purse tied to the black numbers///// texan, the
     answer is in the numbers 01 06 05 who are the other guests at that charade?

War: The outbreak of violence between different Mafia families, often brought
on when one family wants to control another families financial activities

     Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:33 pm
     Arawaks do not like Babylonian musicians. Everyone in camp hears poison music
     Many teepees fall. New wars with babylon
     No Wampum, many moons. Light the Fires

Piece: a gun

     Simian Says: June 25th, 2005 at 7:50 pm
     Only one piece is missing. Around the pool the Hindus were told what
     to say. They did not know why. They were asked to protect the boy.
     The father was not there, but he knew what to do. The Hindus thought
     the girl would reappear.

God, god - godfather. Family heads.

     [The gods] are talking. Family is talking. Many verses about the gods.