Scared Monkeys Discussion Forum

You all know the rules

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e82/klaasend2/InHonorofNatalee.jpg)

(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/klaasend/GuiltyFlow2.jpg)

That was work.  lol

Can't stay long but wanted to check in and say hey

I followed Klaas' link and it took me to the statements  :lol:

Hey beanie !!!!!!!!!

Wha's up?  How my people been?   :lol:

You followed the link in my signature line, lol  :wink:

me -> (http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b32/nonesuche/emoticons/blonde.gif)

Beanie,

I'm working on this house today, AGAIN, keep plowing the back 40  :lol:

 :lol:

Hey Bean & San

(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b32/nonesuche/emoticons/word.gif)

Hi all!

Just a quick flyby to stay informed :D

Klaas! Have you seen the number of 'views' Joran's statements are getting???

Joran may have to move to Antarctica to get another date :lol:  Can't see too many Dutch parents letting him date their daughter 8)

Thank you Scared Monkeys.

lol  go girl.  porch get done ?   :lol:

Hi San!

When the Jensen show aired last night we had over 1600 viewers, most from the Netherlands and many of them read the statements.  Same this today when the show replayed.  I don't know the actual numbers of viewers in the NL that read the statements though.

HI SHARON - GOOD TO SEE YOU  :D

I think Antartica could cure many of Joran's ills, wonder if you can do the gangsta sign with heavy gloves on?  :wink:

Bean-

It's done! I made that workman stay until 11pm the other night  :lol: but with my working beside him, it was gonna get done!

Great strategy --- drive 'em crazy so they want to leave!  LOL

Gotta run - see ya all later.  Glad that this show seems to have peeked the interest of the Dutch.. a good thing I think.

Hi Monkeys.

Just making a drive by from rainy old England. We're about to go out for Chinese food with some friends. It's already 7:10 pm here.

Talk to you later. :D

I'm not in favor of polluting Antarctica.   :(

Hi BTgirl!  Nice to see you arrived in England OK..have a wonderful time!

Hello None, San, Bean,BT, Klaas ............................

WELL LAST NIGHTS BS ON GRETA JUST PROVES .............

THAT VANS OF A FEATHER FLOCK TOGETHER ................

SHE PROVED TO US ALL SHE IS IN THE SLOOT CAMP .............

 8)

Hi Puma... me either!  I need to clarify something too, RED was a long time vistor to Aruba before this case, I have never been... and won't go now anyway... banned or not... :D

Hey Everyone... taking a break from work craziness and doing a drive by!!

This afternoon is dragging for me sistah.........

me too... I am thinking that I can't wait for winethirty!

Guess I saw a different Greta show than you all did.

Seems to me from San's transcription that Greta was allowing Beth to say what was needed on where the investigation was at, that it was at a standstill and that KJ had pretty much not done the job needed. Seemed Greta kinda concured with that opinion.

Also seemed that Beth and Greta both had doubts that the new 'team' from Holland was kinda doubtful with no 'real' info that anything was really gonna happen.

It was also quite apparent that the Holland trip and interview was a good one and a positive for the case.

Does appear from the NL traffic that the Holland interview had opened some eyes and provided some positive PR in NL.

.
I guess Greta did OK with Beth.  I would give her a C- on it.  Nothing bad just not much time devoted to Beth and sort of in-between other stories it seemed.

So do we know when Beth will be on Nancy Grace??

Was it just my imagination or did Dilbart seem a bit kind to Beth?  I do hope he knows Beth has never even raised her voice much less screamed boycott or corruption.  That is the way she always is and is why she is held in such high regard by so many.

No, we do not hang on her every word and we are the ones saying corruption for I have never heard Beth use that word at all.  I have the utmost regard for Beth but also think for myself and my conclusions actually seem far worse than hers for I think that island is awash in corruption at every level and in every nook and cranny.

But would like to see Beth on NGrace as it has been a long time since we have hard much from her.

I wish Dana would interview Jug for he hasn't said anything for a very long time.  Also maybe our own Viet Vet could tell of the first days and what they did to try to locate Natalee in the very beginning.

Just thinking out loud. . . ..  8)

Very nice front page post by a young Dutch teen, posting with the nickname Dutchie:

Hi i am Gino,
I am a 13 year old dutch male.
I always watch Jensen you know why ?
He is the funniest guy in the whole country.
He says things other people don’t say because they think they gonna get in troube with politicians etc.
Bud this is the first time i din’t laugh the whole show.
I was so full of emotion and angry why there are all these staidments.
I can’t imagine what Beth is going trough.
People say Joran is guilty and is running.
I don’t believe that he has nothing to do with this case.
He had something to do with it just like his suriname homeboys.
Bud im tryin’ to don’t charge someone of anything.

she said it.

ANWSERS

And i want them 2 !
I hope this case gets solved quick.
And that beth can has some rest.
And the motherfucker(s) who did this get a lot of punishment.
There is no death penalty here bud maybe if there was it wouldn’t be a bad idea.
My sister’s name is natalie too.
And we’ve lived 1 year in Amerika to be more precised we lived in Marietta just outside Atlanta GA.
So i feel a few connections and thats 2 why i am completely behind you.
Not only because i lived in amerika and my sisters name is natalie 2 bud because you realy are the most special woman i ever saw.
I recorded the show and i really think you are realy a great person.

I just hope Beth can get some rest.
And i wish her all the strenght that she can get from me.
She got my respect so much she is realy a strong woman to tell this.

BETH IF YOU READ THIS I WISH YOU ALL THE STRENGHT ON THE WORLD AND I WANT YOU TO KNOW YOU GOT MY RESPECT AND THE WHOLE NETHERLANDS IS STANDING BEHIND YOU TRYIN’ TO GRAP THE MOTHER ….. WHO DID THIS.

YOU ARE A GREAT AND VERY VERY VERY SPECIAL WOMAN JUST LIKE NATALIE IS IF I HEAR HOW YOU DISCRIBE HER AND THE WHOLE NETHERLANDS IS BEHIND YOU !!!!

I just checked NG's web page and it doesn't mention Beth as a guest.  Do we know one way or another about that?

Also, what time does Dana's show start tonight and will any of you guys be calling in?

I posted this earlier today - no responses. If it means what it sounds like, we have yet another issue with Aruba. Are they ENDING the two-year statue of limitations already?

***


<snip>

Does anyone know what this means? (the part in red).

Thanks for the translation sandy leiva (and I apologize for the many times I've probably misspelled "leiva" ... )

msmarples - I believe that the prosecuter has 2 years to make his or her case, after that time the case is closed.  However, that does not mean if evidence turns up Joran and the rest can't be prosecuted.

Klaas I do hope you guys are pulling these Dutch posts together to send to Beth.  It is so nice to read these positive things after her interview.  I was so afraid the opposite would be true.

It has renewed my belief in my fellow man...... some.

Well, yes, but - I don't think they wrote a story about that for no particular reason? The way I read it, it's over?

(Maybe it's just me. - my take on it.)

I know Red has sent her several already.

Oooooh. Great idea. You are a veritible font today, Easy.

High-five, now that was funny  :lol:  :lol:

As far as I know, and the way I read it the case IS NOT closed yet.  The deadline is in 2007.  I think what they are saying in the article is that it may be closed sooner do to lack of evidence.  Propaganda, IMO.

I think it starts at 9:00... but Klaasend will know more about that than me prolly.... I am looking forward to hearing the show...

sadly, another missing person out there and the family is needing help... and the Black Dahila...

but since I sounded like a dork last time... I am not calling... :lol:

You didn't sound like a dork!  What got me the couple of times I called was that he answered so quickly.  I was kind of expecting to be put on hold or something, so I was still thinking about my questions. lol  He is pretty is to talk with once that initial shock is over.

What are you doing in here BT!  Been there a day and had to steal a computer and hack into the internet? lol lol

All the way to London to have a little Chinese food, huh?   :P

Cole Jackson is the 33 year old Texan that disappeared, right?  I don't know much about the case.  Do any of you?

Easy - yes, he's the 33yr old Texan.  It's a sad case.  Sounds like something was wrong with him, he wasn't thinking right.  

Here's some information on him:

http://tinyurl.com/lk8uw

That does sound strange!  Has he ever acted like that in the past?  Any known drug problems?

Easy - not that I've read but there's not alot of information on this guy.

Yeah, all I found was a poster from TES.  He looks like a healthy guy and not a whack-o.

Copied from Dana's website:  

Next Live Show

Friday September 29th 8:30pm et

Feature On Missing Person Cole Jackson

Then at 9pm et.

My guest will be Steve Hodel

Maybe they have to call it closed before the Ducth can take over?  Hell i dunno just guessing.

Back from chemo which went well buoyed by your thoughts and prayers as always.  

How nice to read what the Dutch have to say now that they have seen Beth on TV.

My grandma's name is Jensen, it's Danish.  I have Danish cousins.

I wish you all a good weekend as DH and I are off to Chattanooga for a barbershop convention.  I'm going to have a few beers, look at men in tuxedos and hear some great barbershop tunes.  

Smoochies to all.

What is this FP stuff about where one poster thinks another poster is Joran?  Is there any basis for that assumption, or have we ventured to that place lost between nonsense and no sense known as the Twilight Zone?

O/T - I just took the survey on AOL on which stars were dead or not.  I went 10 for 10 and got everyone right :shock:  I think I have too much time on my hands. :lol:

(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d118/Sanddrops/twilight2.jpg)

There is absolutely no basis for the assumption that Kelmal is Joran.  Kelmal is however a "super troll".   :lol:

Yeah, he is dead.  :wink:

Funny you should mention that survey.  I have not seen it, but a while back I was searching for a news story and went to the Associated Press site and they have this thing about celebrities that have died over the past year.  I didn't realize many of those folks were gone, or I didn't know their names, just their faces.

Life is sad that way, isn't it.....

I read enough of Kelmal's posts to see that he/she is a troll that pushes it to the limit and then backs off with sappy stuff and then pushes again.  Those seem to be everywhere! lol  This banter about Joran makes it all look a little silly on both sides.

Hi all -

You know, reading the lovely comments from the front page Dutch posters got me thinking.... people are generally kind and caring.  These are the sort of comments and support you would EXPECT from normal people.  It is REFRESHING.

This is what I do not understand - why are there not similar postings from Arubans?  I think we have one correct?  Maybe they don't know about Scared Monkeys since the press down there doesn't even cover the case?  Just wondering why we do see this kind of compassion coming from Aruba vs. the family bashing.

Another FP question:  What is the story on this poster? WWW.AYAAN.INFO

I think this is because I believe there has been an unfair "anti-American" attitude forged because of their perception of their island's portrayal in the American media.  You have to remember, Arubans have a much more "laxed" way of thinking...which doesn't jive well with the way most American's make their own voices heard when injustices are exposed.  Arubans, for whatever reason, seem to be more comfortable as "followers", not "leaders"...

Just my 2 cents.

That really does not mean much, Easy. He may actually be severely mentally ill.

Good question Easy - I just deleted one of his posts because it wasn't relative to anything.

No doubt, but my question had to do with what brought this on, or had it happened in the past.  To me his picture shows a healthy, happy person, yet we know something went terrribly wrong.  Why?

Because Aruba is responsible for what happened to Natalee.  Look at the main people involved in this cover-up.  They are all cold hearted because they are involved in one way or another.  From Charles Croes to Julia Renfro they have involvement.

The average person in Aruba doesn't have a say in a case like this.  They fear their own ALE.  Do they fear the ALE just because a former Police Chief, Duputy Chief and a Fat Lardass Detective were the most corrupt.  Who the hell cares about three cops.  It has to be more than these cops.

Hey Y'all....

O/T the cop killer in FL was killed today...

Hey Scarlett!! ;)  

Yeah, I heard that earlier this morning.  You should NEVER kill anyone...period!!  But, when you kill a cop, they tend to take a slight bit more offense to it.  And, in most cases, that doesn't do well for your chances of survival...especially in an area as heavily wooded as where they got him...

I am sitting here watching the news about the guy in CO, the student in WI shooting his principal and the FL Congressman...

dang, this sucks..

sorry for all the O/T

Hiya Monkeys

O/T: IMO this world has gone to hell in a handbasket.

I am pleased the people in Holland got to hear Beth in her own words tell what happened on Aruba. I do believe some eyes may be opened by the reading of the statements.

Anyone going to listen to Dana tonight?  I'm curious about the Black Dahlia interview.  I've seen Hodel before, but it has always been in a taped docu-drama type format.

I also feel for the missing guy, but I just don't know much about him.

Yap, you are so right!  It has gone to hell in a handbasket!  Every friggin day it is something new about some goon hurting some innocent person.  The story about the girl in Colorado just broke my heart and that is just one tragic story this week.

Locally, we had a guy drag a sweet little Shetland pony behind his truck for miles before he was spotted.  The little thing survived for a few days while a team of vets tried to come up with ways to replace all the lost skin.  Couldn't be done, so the kind thing was to put him down.  The kind thing to do for other animals would be to put down the drunk asshole driving that truck!

I am ... and I have his last week's show on now... I think LV is going to listen in... I was just emailing her how to get the show to play... I hope she does.. excellent pictures of Hodel's home, that she took!

I hope someone drags his sicka$$ behind a truck... who does this stuff?

Good !

Will someone let me know if Beth on Nancy Grace tonight.  There is a problem with my cable but I can run down stairs in my sisters house and put a tape in her machine.

LV ?

This could be a first psychotic break. There may have been "budding" symptoms before this. Pending Fatherhood may well have been the stressor that triggered it. Or he may have been on meds and stopped them. Of course, this would all be based on IF he is severely mentally ill.

I didn't think about that, but she sure did take some impressive pictures of that place.  Kind of adds drama to the interview.

Louise Vargas... a Monkey that went to the old house and took pictures of it... where I believe George Hodel lived... the pictures are in the thread called Unsolved Crimes... and we have talked about the case in there...

I'm going to send you a news link later.  It was horrible.  I don't like people that hurt people, but I REALLY don't like people that hurt animals for no reason.  Man the whole thing just tore me up and everyone was hoping that something could be done.  Just too much damage.

Yes thats the house, thanks.

I will be going live with audio in 10 minutes

Get her to CALL Dana!  I think she would be interesting!

If anyone is keeping an eye on NG would you let the rest of us know if Beth is on?

I just emailed her that she can post and listen... I would love for her to call him.. she is a very interesting person with lots of experiences to share...

GRRRRRR!!!  :evil:    As a Big Time  animal lover here I'd love to have this guy out in the woods for a couple of hours and i'd show him that what he did to that poor little pony  was a very mild dose of what id do with him !
   I know that hate is a very very strong  but for a person who harms a child, a mentally challenged person, or an animal I can harbor some Hate for .
    Jerry

Louise is signed on to SM at the moment and hopefully she will see your post.

Especially a gentle animal like that.. one thing I will say for New England... harming a helpless animal up here carries MAJOR punishment... in fact, worse than harming a person in some places...

Dang, I need to put the number where I can remember it... I would LOVE for LV to call DANA .... anyone have that 800 number handy??

Call and ask tonight!  Please!

San you ROCK!!  you and Klaasend are my internet SHEROES!!!

Our area enacted a law a few years ago after a dog was tortured and set afire.  This pony has just taken that law to another level.  This guy is looking at a long time in prison and a felony conviction following him the rest of his life.

Okay, I will get back on topic.

Mrs have you contacted LV?

Oh it just kills me... I mean I tell my "boys" that they are going to have to live outside... and then I feel bad just for saying that.. (they are so completely spoiled... )

I really have a problem with ppl that harm those that can't fight back, wheether it's a child, an animal, or an elderly person... doesn't matter... I just have an issue with that..

I have.. we are talking now...

I am wanting her to call...

Glad that Dana is talking about the Beth interview.... and how nice it was...

This might work....

http://www.wkrg.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=WKRG%2FMGArticle%2FKRG_BasicArticle&c=MGArticle&cid=1149190848647&path=%21news%21local

I don't know what to think.......

me either,but it's sad... and I can't imagine my brother going missing... any one of them... :(

Louise sounds so good...

Only have one sister and I know how she would react.  That is not a gauge for other situations, but it is in the back of my mind.

Link to the thread with the photos:

http://www.scaredmonkeys.net/viewtopic.php?t=270&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=20

Hey Monks!
Nothing yet on NG, only a few minutes left.
She covered Trenton's story, now Anna Nichol's son.

My cable co. while interupt the last 10 minutes for some local thingy.

Thanks for letting us know NM!

Good job LV!

Hey NM...

Louise did sound great and she was very interesting.

I am so excited that she called...

A fellow architect... lol

We do notice that stuff, but why it was important tonight beats the chit out of me.

Ok, who called in and said it wasn't the Hollyhock house? It was someone named Mike. Who was that? I may be wrong.

I don't think that caller was a monkey...

Brush it off!  You sounded great!  You had an interesting story!  AND, you have good pictures!

All it means is that new ears are listening and that is good!

it's true Easy... LV.. it's ok... you sounded great and at least you didn't do what I did the last time... say are we on?  in the middle of talking....  I also hope that some of the new listeners will join and post their thoughts in the Unsolved Crimes thread...

Rats! I missed you call LV.  You are a scream!!  Great pix!!

Hi MrsR, Klaas and all me Monkeys!

Dana Monkey is talking :)

DANA!  Bump up the volume on your guest!  You are killin' me here!

Humm, drumming up business for the other threads are we?

My snappy reparte' isn't enough for you all?

and Steve Hodel..... can y'all imagine....

NM you can go back and listen later... :wink:

you know we love you... are listening to the show

You didn't! :lol:  your too funny. Somehow I missed your call. I missed a couple of shows, I have to catch up on my pod casts.

PS Max-monkey is sleeping on my legs, snooring!!

Hodel is talking about the details of his house! LV's pix!!

Dana Monkey  :lol:  :lol:

(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/klaasend/SMRADIO1.jpg)

Is he holding his nose? smell no evil!!

that's too funny!!

Thank you all sooo much. A special thanks to you, Easy. I had to drink a shot of vodka before calling in. I am so skeered of calling in and being videocam-ed. I don't know why. I'm glad you thought I did ok. Whew, thank God it's over.

PS: Dana has a beautiful voice, doesn't he?

No silly, that's speak no evil.  A radio host cannot speak evil you know!  :wink:

I heard on the radio, the guy in CO picked his victims out of MySpace.com. Outside of the school, he asked a male student about a list of girls, some of which he targeted.  :shock:  :cry:

Can the rest of you sense the need for some of these people to tell their story?  Where else do they find this kind of freedom to speak?

You are great... you will get the hang of it...

Humm, being homeless and all, I wouldn't have thought he'd be doing all that much web surfing.

I'm smelling something evil coming from Max's butt area!!

PS Dana's show (eek another evil whiff courtsey Max) is great! I like that he is letting Hodel talk about his father.

and sometimes you need to hear the details and the background to understand all the stuff behind what happened...

yes it is pretty cool to just hear the guest talk...

depends ... in our town the homeless hang in the library where there is internet access...

Yeah, I know what's possible, just don't think it's all that likely.

Klaasend

I've added the most recent updated version of the timeline to the timeline sticky (I just finished adding info from S 6/13 so it's presently all caught up). can you delete the earlier version

You can always delete that long outdated Early Morning Hours timeline thread as well

Sure

Sweetheart, next time don’t reach for a shot of vodka.  Reach for my hand, okay?  Together we can work through the bumps.

Dana has a controlled voice and that makes the difference.  Dana may be a natural, or he may have taught himself.  How that took place will be a story Dana might tell.

But, Dana does have a controlled, soothing voice.  I think he can go as far as he likes.  He just needs the right publicity.

i would love to hear what the walls in that house could say....

I hope that everyone takes the time to check out this interview...

I think we are!

he's interesting... here is a link to his book and his picture....

http://www.blackdahliaavenger.com/images/backcover.jpg

Guess Louise got close enough to hear, but she only took a camera along and not a recorder.

you can see more on the site... but if y'all buy the book, use our Amazon link... (shameless Monkey plug)

Something about this is losing me...

I think it's the details... there are so many... the back ground is hard to kinda get... I guess it's hard to figure out how it all ties in, at this point...

Klaaas - There's a FP post, in the comments for the story about Aruba's crime stats, by Mortella - I think it's No. 23. I would like that post on the M&C thread.

Pretty please with sugar on it ???  8)

I wish we could copy FP posts ...  :?

I guess my whining begging might be better received if I spelled "Klaas" correctly ...  :roll:

Check in the M&C thread and make sure I got the right one please  :wink:

An explanation in brief. Dr, George Hodel was very involved in a venereal disease clinic. All the people who he treated were beholden to him - they didn't want their names to be revealed.

There was a pic in George photo album that looks like the Black Dahlia. The pic had a freckle on the nose that Elizabeth also had. He compared the ear lobes which were the same.

So many handwriting samples matched, according to Steve.

Thanks LV...

The LAPD was corrupt then and most of Dr. George's patience were cops, politicians, and rich important men.

They conveniently covered up for Dr. Hodel just like Aruba. Her body was severed as if with a guillotine.

Many of the notes from the Dahlia murder were on the same type of paper.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm

You need to let me run this thing!

Maybe we could sell this guy as a sleeping aide!

The body was drained of blood and washed clean.

Steve showed a stainless steel bathtub in the Sowden housen that could have been used to do this.

You couldn't do this bisection with a saw.

Steve (in his book) compared photos at the crime scene with pics at the coroner.

In the crime scene, George had placed a beautiful watch in the body. The watch was gone in the coroner pics.

Hi Monks! BOC on a fly by!! :wink:

well I think that he is trying to get out some information for people that have no idea about the case... at all...

Easy, are you talking to me?

I think that we are so used to hearing soundbites too... but I am finding this interesting... but I have a lot more questions...

Yesterday a thought went through my mind.  Not sure why......

Steve recognized the watch in the body as his father's watch. He thought it was one of his dad's "art" stunts.

I don't think he is... I think he is not liking the interview...

I can tell you why!

KLAAS - you rock, you rule ... but you know that. Thanks.

Thanks, Mrs. Red. I was just trying to give a background re what Steve is discussing.

Let me run this damn show!  My fingers are on the pulse of reality!

E, speak! Tell me why.

Yesterday a thought went through my mind. Not sure why......

Thank you Louise - I really appreciate it because I haven't really followed this story up until tonight!

Ok, you can run this damn show. Can you share?

BOC - Still here? Can you pop over to the Murder & Crime thread and read? Anna & I have been on fire with this since some travel consultant told a bunch of travel people that Aruba had had one murder in 20 years ... and a USAToday travel writer quoted him in a column ...

But we would LOVE your worthy advice on how to get this information to other travel/tourism folks ...

It's just 7 pages; a summary is on page 6, see my sig line; but also see top of page 7 for USA murder stats.

{{{ THANK YOU }}}

I think Easy is getting a bit lubricated.

Hey, Klaas, glad I could clarify a bit.

Steve doesn't have a captivating voice. But his book, Black Dahlia Avenger is very captivating.

He is so detail oriented and methodical in his presentation. Like an accountant. Nevertheless, he has solved the case, IMHO.

LV.. I thank you... not everyone knows all about this... and I have learned a lot of info tonight. Red is finally getting the story, he had actually never heard of it until I started talking about it here..

DO y'all remember TNMOM.. with the flag? She is a travel agent... she has read that thread!

Not to be confused with Mom In Tn !!  Right?   :wink:

Yeah, but how come so many other LAPD disagree with him?

You really think they all are still covering for some bad cops?

OH no, let's not offend her!  LOL.. Not the same at all..

Hi Carnut!  

Does that mean he didn't mean when he said " Sweetheart, next time don’t reach for a shot of vodka. Reach for my hand, okay? Together we can work through the bumps. "

 :cry:

Could be...

Well, now only Easy can answer that one.

Oh, yeah!  Walk a mile in my shoe....

Louise, I think Easy meant it.  Easy was not directing his frustration at you he was directing his frustration at Hodel's voice and delivery.

OH LV... I am sure he meant that... anyway... I think now I am going to have to check it out.. and using the Amazon link at SM... (yes, another shameless hint... just like Christmas is coming up... )

(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/klaasend/SMRADIO2.jpg)

 :lol:

I mean the book...

Car, LAPD is and has always been corrupt. I didn't know about the 40s until the Dahlia case, so apparently it's been going on for a long time.

Heh, heh, hard work gettin all those shameless plugs in there.

yes.. and you know your google explanation made me understand something the other day... the topics we post about aren't ones that people want to buy stuff about ... i.e. travel to aruba..  but it does help the site when ppl use the Amazon link...

Hmmm, crock-o-shit!

Easy, where do you live? Can I come live with you?

yo........ easy.. what's up??  you don't believe it?

I mean that his dad did it...

Dana, excellent job... I don't think I have ever heard an interview where the guest could talk...

Well .... it is clear the Dahlia case is fascinating. Dana went way over 90 minutes. I loved it. A great show. Steve Hodel has so much pertinent information.

Now, wait a minute Louise, I'm getting jealous.

I'm single too ya know.

Black Dahlia does have a story, but her memory seems to get lost.  Listen to the real story and hold tight.

Many years ago I met Elizabeth and we talked about her future.

Link please if it is still on...thanks

Dana - another stellar show!  Hodel was very interesting.   :D

So, I was told by a close friend.

It's over now but Dana will have it up on the podcast shortly.  You can find it at this link, click on the podcast link.  I bet it's there within the next 15 minutes.

http://st106.startlogic.com/~cbandtal/

Hi Shell ... you will have to listen to the podcast... it's over... but it's a good show... and lots of information... make sure you have time to hang out and listen... it's a 90 minute interview!!

Ok Easy You have our full attention.

Sam... did you know she was from MASS?  I didn't ever know that until we started talking about it in the Unsolved Crimes thread...

and yes he does... I am dying to hear...

Sorry, I just thought something was wrong.  Maybe I am wrong.  Ooops!

Thanks Klaas and Mrs R...that was one interview I really wanted to listen to. I had company and am just getting on the computer.  Been hopping back and forth past couple of days, with company I could not keep up like usual. But guess what, I am still a non-smoker :D

I am up and down over how the Dutch going in will make a difference. Hearing how Beth was perceived has pumped my hope factor up.

well honey hush, do tell... and don't be a tease... :wink:

Dana,

Thanks so much for your in depth interview of Steve Hodel. I've already thumbed through the Black Dahlia Avenger and it is so validating to hear Steve talk about many of the subjects in his book. The case is really like an onion with layer underneath layer underneath layer. Steve and his discoveries are so very vast that to discuss them in depth would take a huge amount of airtime. I recommend his book to everyone interested in this case.

Thanks for a great show.

LouiseVargas

Excellent news about the smoking Shell...

I am going to have to re listen again... I am sure I missed some information ...

Carnut - I heard that about the CO killer on another talk radio show today.  I trust that talk show host to provide the truth just as much as I trust Dana.

I did volunteer work with a home shelter free medical clinic for years.  In fact I was the Director of it for 2 years.  There are quite a few homeless people who are extremely intelligent but are down on their luck or mentally ill.  Also many public libraries in USA cities are frequented by the homeless.  They go there to use the restrooms, read the newspapers and sleep.  Some use the free computers too.

Yeah, I know, but then the guy goes and mails a letter, which costs money, to his brother instead of an email? Sorry, I'm still skeptical on this one.

So a close friend told you they talked to Elizabeth about her future And....

No Mrs Red I am sorry I did not read the Dahlia thread at all. I do not know why.

Louise,

Thank you for your thoughts.  You went beyond most, but you seemed to bring us into your fold and hold us tight.  Thank you Louise.  Thank you so much, so, so much!

Mike

Ooops, make that HOMELESS shelter.

Car, don't be jealous. Where do you live? Are'nt you a SoCal Monkey?

Gone till tomorrow….

Nite EASY!

In my opinion this is bull crap! Murders seem to be covered up for tourism sake! Most  murders happen to those from South  America and those dealing in the drug and sex slave trade!

My agencies continue to NOT sell Aruba and we discourage other travel professionals not to!

Remember Aruba used to be in our top ten in sales each year!  The Marriott  and ATA offered me a deal for Aruba and my cost would be $69. I told hem at this point you could not pay me to travel there!

Hope this guy wasn't the source of the Myspace story.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=2507747

Nope,  I live in flyover country, the cultural center of the universe, Wichita, Ks.

Podcast
http://sundaynightsatellite.libsyn.com/index.php?post_id=135546

Who knows what goes through these mentally ill killers minds.  I heard about the "suicide/goodbye" letter to his brother, too.  A letter ISN'T expensive to mail.

I'm sure we'll hear more about this guy in the days to come.

Your welcome, 90 minutes and there is much more I could have asked and we could have discussed. Oh BTW i forgot to mention during the show that his book has been purchased for a movie. Steve is wondering if Johnnie Depp should play George?
:-)

Evening all!

Mrs Red you were right . Easy is a tease.

Easy you are a tease. Tease Tease Tease.

Goodnight all. I am going to go read that Black Dahlia thread now.

 Johnny Depp?  Sighhh.. that be awesome.  TY Dana for all you have done!

http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/view.php?StoryID=20060929-124902-4560r

Colorado gunman leaves suicide note

DENVER, Sept. 29 (UPI) -- Colorado police say the gunman who killed a Platte Canyon High School student molested all six of the females he held hostage.

According to Park County, Colo. Sheriff Fred Wegener, gunman Duane Morrison, 53, had asked for each of his victims by name, CNN reports.

As a result, Wegener said investigators are looking into reports Morrison may have researched the girls by using the Website MySpace.com and looking at the home pages for students at the high school.

Thursday night investigators recovered a suicide note at the home of a relative who was the registered owner of one of the handguns used by Morrison, the Denver Post reported.

Wegener would not disclose what was in the note but said investigators hoped it might shed some light on the shooter's motive and why he picked Platte Canyon High School.

Authorities are also checking reports that Morrison may have visited the high school prior to the attack.

perfect fit Dana!!

Brace yourself if you plan on looking at all the pictures. They haunted me for days.

Hi Angie! Pittsburg friend. :wink:

OMG Klass.. what a perv!  :(

I could not even look at those...

Hey BOC... good to see you... and Ang too!!

 

 ROFL ....I got your email sweety.. and responded!
Great to see you!  BTW whos pulling those blankies up?

Yep

Hi Mama Louise!  I love all the pictures in the BD thread.  You are simply amazing and brazen to walk into the house and then explore the yard. I must have inherited that brazeness from you! BTW, you are a great photograper too!!  Were you using a digital camera?

Sorry I missed you talking with Dana.  I'll have to catch that on podcast.  I did get to hear the whole interview with Hodel though.

Ooops, almost forgot to ask how you are doing!  :D

Mavbe a Pittsburg friend! :lol:

 Hey Mrs Red!   Great to see you!  
I looked at  those pics..:(  
I dont have the words to desribe how I felt..

Hi Mrs Red! I cruise thru quite often! Just lurking normally!

[quote="BIGORANGECRUS
Mavbe a Pittsburg friend! :lol:[/quote]


  LMAO..

I fear I missed the show tonight too, but going to listen to the podcast. Thank you Dana for working so hard to bring us stimulating shows.

Thanks to Louise for all her work on the Black Dahlia thread also.

As for those photos someone across the ocean bird-dogged me to that site months ago, I looked at those photos all alone......and with no warning. SHIVERS....

THANK YOU, KLAAS!  You rock!!

 Hey Sistah!!! :)
I didnt know what to expect either...so sad.. unreal that someone can do that to another human. :(

Angie-

What's worse is they compared Natalee's case to the Black Dahlia? So I thought I was heading into some big tip, hit those photos and wanted to hide under the bed?

Oh ... I never looked at the pictures... I saw one and it was enough... I know that Spooky warned me... and I tried to warn everyone too...

  OMG.. I dont blame yah  :(

I looked at them.  They are kinda gruesome.

I'm reading a book called Coroner's Journal and it's about the head medical examiner, the makeshift morgue, and all he went through to identify the Hurricane Katrina victims.

none how is football going?

  I know you did.. and I looked anyways... and wish I hadnt.. :(
Really made me upset.. my own faut.... cause Im curious I guess.

good nite y'all ...

 keep the faith...   it moves mountains!

well he just moved up a slot in the depth chart, said they have been in all-day meetings planning to rock those Gator's world?  :lol: we hope?

BOC-

How about those volunteers?  :wink:

 NIght Mrs Red... and I agree.. Keep the faith!

well I accidentially saw one reading the site that Misgivings posted... started reading and then bam!  I didn't go any furhter... I am squeemish.... and a big baby about those kinds of things...

nite Ang... and everybody...

and btw, LV you did great!

Sunfreak2-

You are strong to read the Coroner's Journal, I can't remember which show it was, but one recently profiling a physician during Katrina who may lose her license due to decisions made to euthanize some patients? I caught only bits and pieces but I can't imagine the stress of that disaster upon medical personnel, as well as patients.

  I have seen plenty at my past job.. on drives with EMS and PO~PO..
horrid it was. :( :(  Never saw anything like those photos.. :(
God Bless her.

Many years ago my voice went from soprano to baritone overnight.  For some reason I wanted to do radio.  That opportunity was given to me.  I went from taking out the trash to queuing up vinyl and talking over the intro.  I got pretty good at it, but I never felt comfortable.

So, I went to school and did what I did.

 Hugs Easy!   and I am proud of you.. :)
BT will get a great report.. :)  Saw she posted earlier.. I missed her. :(

They are really a question mark at this time. Do not know how strong the Gators were! Injuries and lack of depth on the offensive and defensive line are a major concern!

Hope you beat the Gators!!!!!!!

I am listening to the podcast, Louise, it was nice hearing your voice. I am glad you pointed out that So Cal people are just as normal as anyone else. :wink:

what was that ?
you did ?

Easy I'm sure you were great at it too. You have a flair.

well I'm off to bed, must plow the back 40 again tomorrow, take care all!

pod cast link is
http://sundaynightsatellite.libsyn.com/index.php?post_id=135546

Don't be proud of me!  I just happened upon situations.  My voice went deep and my shoes got larger....  8)

BOC-

We have a football thread in the lounge, I hope you'll post on it, I know Mrs Red would love to have a fellow Volunteer on it  :D

Please come back to visit soon, we've missed you ! My best to Mrs BOC too !!!

(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/klaasend/man_jamming_lg_clr_20985.gif)

 :lol:

 Night sweety. I hope you get some rest SOON!

[quote="Easywriter  Don't be proud of me!  I just happened upon situations.  My voice went deep and my shoes got larger....  8)[/quote]

 LOL  :)  Well I USED to have a great voice.. not anymore.. 911 wore it out .. :(  and I loved it there.

I'm serious, I did radio during high school and things were different in those days!

We had to que the vinyl and give lead time.  A turntable was in each hand.

 LOL  :)  Well I USED to have a great voice.. not anymore.. 911 wore it out .. :(  and I loved it there.[/quote]

I think age got my voice.  I was one deep voiced son-of-a-gun in my day! lol

oh i misunderstood, i thought you meant something else

I think age got my voice.  I was one deep voiced son-of-a-gun in my day! lol[/quote]

  :)  I bet you still are too.!!
Nobody ever take for granted their voice. :(
Trust me!

Dana, it is so true that one person listening might have that one piece of information to solve a crime or offer information. That is how crimes are solved. It is the eyes and ears of the public that make or break a case. For that reason, every time Beth can get her story out there and every single time you interview someone and the right person hears it and is moved to make that call, it is one step closer to solving a crime.

Oh SunFreak, my daughter,I am way behind in the thread so I hope you read this. I have a Sony Cybershot with 3.2 mega pixels which is three years old. It gives me trouble. I cannot see anything in the 1" x 2" display in bright light. However after lots of practice, I am able to at least hold the camera still. Love, Your Mama

It is all about control.  A deep voice means nothing without control.  I just happened to have a deep voice.

I missed that show.  I most likely would have acted like those physicians and nurses doing the mercy killings.  The ones they euthanized were Do Not Resucitate patients who were most likely not going to survive under  those horrific conditions.  They said it was stinking hot, muggy and putrid.   There is a big debate in the medical community over medical ethics & mercy killing. What happened in NOLA just emphasized it.  I could talk a blue streak about the things I've seen & the abuses of the Medicare/aid system.  Absolutely mindboggling.

You have as much said I didnt have control of the show and thats fine.
Simple solution for you is not to listen. Im outta here before I say something I regret.
You made your point why do you have to keep repeating it.

Oh Dana, don't take it personally, Easy wasn't really talking about you.

Easy is in one of his funks tonight.

Well cripes, I paused the podcast to post here, and lost my place. Dana, we did not tune in to hear your voice dear, not that we don't like you. People tuned in to hear SH, and you allowed him to speak, which is as it should be. This interview is awesome, and I am getting back to hearing it, don't get sidetracked, you do an awesome job!

Hmmmm, it's slow right now.  

If Carnut is here I like to tell him that I have a son who lives in Kansas City, MO, in the suburb of Leawood.

Sorry if I offended anyone.. I DO have a vocal cord disorder...which is no dang picnic. Ask None.. San.. Yap..BT..Rob...Mishy... :( They have all heard me.  :(    I really didnt mean to offend anyone....
Look up Spasmodic Dysphonia....
Night.

  Night  Mom Louise..  You are amazing!  Love and hugs to you!

My earlier comment was about voice control, which meant the depth of ones voice means nothing without proper control.  

Professionals told me long ago it was not the voice, but the control of the voice that made the difference.  That statement seemed to irritate some internet radio personalities.  My apologies are extended {{edit - uncalled for}}

Best of luck in your endeavors!

Mama Louise, pat yourself on the back b/c you take beautiful pictures even with a camera that gives you trouble.  My dig camera is 6 years old.  It's not the camera, its the photographer.  :D   And you are a great storyteller too.  You capture your reader, and keep them interested with your subtle suspense.  You could make books.

Neato, when you come to visit him you can drive south a bit and visit me as well.

Still think you should consider getting the job your voice is now suitable for.

Big bucks in that business, reasonable hours and working conditions as well.

{{edit- stop it!}}

{{edit }}
Learn how to chill out, please.

If that is directed at me, retirement is my next step up the career ladder.  I’ve accomplished most of my goals and made a few bucks along the way.  Now, I am done with it and I am done with these skin deep feelings.  I wanted to help, but f it!

No Easy, that's not directed at you, it's an inside joke with Angie.

Guess I will who is under the covers! :wink:  Good nite Monks! :lol:

Carnut..  I understood what you meant..lol TY..
Night everyone..  Sweet Dreams.. and prayers for Natalee..
Not in the mood for any drama this evening... :(

 

ROFL BOC.. watch out for the VS models~  Night!

I read the Hodel book and thought it fascinating and pretty convincing. Used to listen to his brother on the radio, great voice that one, and a gentle spirit. Mike. His name was Mike. That's right, isn't it?

Maybe Siephanie Seymore :!:  :wink:

Hi Hat - I can't answer that question for you but hopefully someone else can.

Car,

You wrote: Neato, when you come to visit him you can drive south a bit and visit me as well.

Hey sweetie, thanks for the invitation. I don't go to KS as my son has estranged himself from me, just like my daughter did - but for other reasons.

So there appears to have the two Brothers and at least one sister in the Hodel family?

Did the radio Hodel ever comment on the brothers story? Seems the Hodel story has been around for a long time before the book got written.

Hello Klaas. He had a sci fi & etc. based show on KPFK for a number of years.I believe the title was "Hour 25". Anybody remember that?

Ah gee, I never get any breaks.

I fear I've never heard it, but did want to say hello to Hat - how are you?

http://www.hour25online.com/

Mike Hodel

(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/klaasend/mhodel.jpg)

Is this a raised by you son or the put up for adoption son?

Carnut-

I admire your persistence, Louise is the real deal  :wink:

Your comment about Wichita being the cultural hub of the mecca was the best ever tonight  :lol:

The sister was the victim in the molestation trial. Her good friend was...a girl singer that went on to a pretty big career. Story was the father made a play for this friend at one tome.

Father musta been some kind of dude. Poor kids.

For Michelle Phillips Hat?

Hey, I'm just a lonely fat old balding guy out in the boonies, gotta try every chance I get.

Hello none, sorry for the typo above. And any in the future. Look for a tiltle from Chronicle Press within a couple of weeks. "Girl on Fire".

Well well, thanks for the hat tip  :D

Michelle Phillips, right.

Klaas-

I saw this tonight, had to bring it over to you, email who this reminds you of?  :lol:

(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b32/nonesuche/emoticons/15.gif)

Their loss, my gain.  My Birthday is on Thanksgiving this year.  :D  My sister lives 20 miles from me, but she's too good to slum with me.  Never invites me for Thanksgiving or Christmas.  Her loss.

But I'm glad I got you, Mama!

Great attitude Sunfreak, I have a sister who is quite the diva, always works best just to live well - best revenge and all that  :wink:

Well I may have run Hat off  :lol:  I do have that affect on him since the monkey wedding plans j/k

I'll leave you all with this emoticon too, first time I've seen a Get Shorty one, hysterical !
(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b32/nonesuche/emoticons/jay.gif)

Night All !!!

Nite None!  Check your email and tell me if I guessed correctly, lol  :lol:

Yeah, but I have sooo many to get revenge with, not sure I can live 'That' well.

Sorry none, lost in thought after Michelle reference. Was reading the other day about Harry Nilsson. And recalled the tragic passing of Michelle's singing partner. It was in Harry's London flat. Somebody else passed there too. Geez that Harry had a beautiful set of pipes, three octaves and sweet. Good composer too. But I think it was Fred Neil that wrote one of his best known recorded songs. A movie theme.

My SunFreak,

Do ya remember that old song by Sonny and Cher ... "I Got You Babe"? Well, we got us Babe!

Hat I think I posted a link in the Black Dahlia thread regarding a repeated show <20/20 or like> that Michelle discusses in depth the Hodel sister, the sister is also interviewed. Louise Vargas tooks some fascinating photos also, she's quite brave, you should take a look-see.

I agree about Harry, another icon lost.

Carnut-

Trust me, life truly is too short and you need to get rid of that Charlie Brown black cloud you let hang over you  :lol:

I 'suspicion' you can do that !

Night again and dearest Klaas, you were on da money honey  :lol:

The board front page says you and I and Klaas are the only ones still logged on. What are either of you thinking about?

I just finished listening to the Dana  "Black Dahlia Avenger " interview with Steve Hodel.  Fascinating!  One of the benefits of hearing it on a podcast is I can search the internet while following the story - Man Ray, Dorothy Hodel, John Huston, Steve Hodel's website, plus Louise's pictures of the house.  I knew the background of the case from watching the 48 Hours Mystery on TV months ago but I preferred hearing the story in the author's own words.  Good work, Dana.  You moved the interview along without breaking the flow.

Don't know if that statement includes me or not, but I work on my website constantly while checking in here during breaks in the action.

I'm thinking about playing a couple of games then calling it a night, lol  :lol:

Dear Klass,

I am going to do the same thing you are.

Goodnight to you Klaas - the Scared Monkeys Goddess.

Nite Louise - you were wonderful on Dana's show tonight!!!

The angels are the best at choir.
They Have Callas and Cass and Caruso.

The bravest army lies still in Flanders
and Phillipi and Fredericksburg.

Dread navy of the ages sleeps in the dark ocean sea.
At Actium, Along the broad Atlantic, and all the Aegean.

Poets whisper their sonnets to the clouds.

Kings rule dust.

Saints ascend.

And call to us.

Great seeing you again Hat!  

Goodnight all!  See you tomorrow.

G'night Klaas.

Night all.

Yes, Yes, I do. I loved Sonny & Cher! Loved their show. They both did well after their divorce.

I was making labels, sorry my response is so late.

I loved his Nilsson Schmilsson. Ya put de lime in da coconut and ya drink it all up!!

Funny song. Ever hear "The Point"?

.
Just now listening to the Hodel Interview on Dana--was out late and missed it live.  The Podcast is great because we can all hear it later if we miss it the first time.

Cheyenne was great with her interview about her brother.

On the Black Dahlia

Fascinating story.  So many have lead such tragic lives.  Louise sounded great.  ALL THE MONKEYS WHO CALL IN DO!  Don't be shy as every one of you who have called in did a great job.  Monkeys rock!  I think we are a group of very capable and informative people who do have things to contribute in many area.

Back to listening as this is very interesting. . .. . .Oh, and yes, Dana does have a very soothing voice!  I really like to listen to him and he is very kind to all callers.  If you feel too shy to call in, remember he will help you along if you need it.  Everyone feels shy calling but just do it anyway.  I always do when I can.

If you don't know all about the subject, ask a question.  Keeps the show moving.  So far all who have called sound just terrific but that is not necessary to call.  Callers are not expected to sound professional.  Hope CrazyBabyBorg will get back up to speed and call some, too.

Just my thoughts while listening along.

Well it seems I'm here all alone drinking my coconut juice.

I will take this time to say then:

ENGLISH
To our Dutch readers:
It's wonderful to read your kind and lovely words for Beth and Natalee.
Welcome. Thank you for checking out our website,   We're glad that you found Beth heartwarming and honest.  It is so tragic how she lost her daughter, and has not recieved answers as to what happened in Aruba. Please ask your Government to investigate this case and investigate the investigation. This family deserves answers as to what happened to their beautiful daughter who held so much promise for the future. Please read all the statements the suspects made, and then ask your country to help bring justice for Natalee Holloway. Thank you and may God bless you.

DUTCH
Aan onze Nederlandse lezers:
Het is prachtig om uw vriendelijke en mooie woorden voor Beth en Natalee te lezen.
Welkom. Dank u voor het controleren van onze website, ScaredMonkeys.com en Scared Monkeys.net.  Wij zijn blij dat u Beth vond heartwarming en eerlijk. Het is zo tragisch hoe zij haar dochter verloor, en heeft niet recieved antwoorden in verband met wat in Aruba gebeurde. Gelieve te vragen uw Overheid om dit geval te onderzoeken en het onderzoek te onderzoeken. Deze familie verdient antwoorden in verband met wat aan hun mooie dochter gebeurde die zo veel belofte voor de toekomst inhield. Gelieve te lezen alle verklaringen de gemaakte verdachten, en te vraag dan uw land helpen rechtvaardigheid voor Natalee Holloway brengen. Dank u en kan God u zegenen.

>
What a nice statement, Sunfreak!  How in the world did you get that nice Dutch translation?  Are you like Klaas, have read and fooled with the language so much you are now able to write it?

Very nice commentary.  I, too, am heartened by the kind remarks of several of the Dutch.

.

Diario
http://www.diarioaruba.com/
Amigoe
http://www.amigoe.com/english/
BonDia
http://www.cspnv.com/
Solo di Pueblo
http://www.solodipueblo.com/
AweMainta
http://www.awemainta.com/
Translator:
http://papiamentu.donamaro.nl

Dana, great show. I really enjoyed listening to SH speak about his father and friends and to be able to in such dept and length.  I agree that Johnny Depp would be a great choice to play his father, based both on physical appearance and artistic style and Left-of-Center persona.

LV thanks again for the pix and mostly for sharing what you did to get them!!

Morning Monkeys!!

Just seeing if anything is new for this Saturday..  I see no breaking news..  For me all the rumors have confused this case and we have no sanity checks to be sure we are all researching the correct information.. I will wait until someone finds a valid lead before I get my hopes up.. I'm glad that Beth had a great interview over in Holand and maybe something will happen if not only to keep the story alive..  I do believe the only tool we have is the boycott and not too much of anything else.. We know they changed the rules but they are the ones that make the rules and therefore they seem to be ok with changing the rules.. I see most here are thinking all the Dutch people will changed the rules but I don't think that will happen..  I know too much negativity but I haven't seen anything good happen for Natalee's family on this case..  The corruption might end in Aruba but I think it starts somewhere else.. Just my opinion and I will continue to boycott anything Aruba and Dutch until I see something besides words..

Good morning All...

Terry, hope you had a great birthday!

I agree with BFN poster Edward that it is far more likely that the beach Joran took Natalee to was near the Lighthouse, not near the Marriott.  There are fishermans huts there too.

(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/klaasend/LighthouseHuts.jpg)

(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/klaasend/LighthouseArashi1.jpg)


GOODMORNING ALL!

About the other fishermans huts, we saw that about 2 months ago.
It makes more sense to me that that is a place that they took her.
Deepak said in the Skeeters tape that Joran said he could pass a lie detector test. So, almost everything is a lie, it is ALL lies, or there is an element of the truth mixed in. We were at the Fisherman's Huts fits in.
But then, what about the phone call from the phone of Joran to the phone of Deepak. Unless those phone calls were a load also......
So confusing, mining for the truth from them.
Arashi is deserted. So is Malmok.
We know what the plan was with the three involving Natalee , makes no sense that Joran would be at a place where people might be.

Joran could have started walking or could have been picked up by someone else and made his call to Deepak from nearer the Marriott.  That does not mean that Natalee was with him there.

Ordinary people in the NL seem to have reacted to Beth the same way that anyone would. Well, there are exceptions, but we know where most of them live. Or troll.
Except on Aruba....eh ?

Yes, ordinary people like us.  People that see the obvious.

I think that there is someone else involved that night. Sander at Malmok, Freddy, just don't know. The call that Joran made, he said it was windy and that he had to stand behind the Huts. It was a long phone call.
Maybe all of these add on details are the truth. The level of detail for no reason. In all the tv interviews, etc.

Klaasend, totally agree with the ordinary ppl thing. And those are only those who posted. I don't go to a web site and comment about tv shows.

Terry,
have you read some of these supportive and heartfelt posts from the Dutch.  I it is making my hopes soar, which I am unable to prevent, I hope this is how the majority there feel and I pray and hope this is how the Dutch investigators feel and will help Nat.  

Kat, I'm still chuckling in my head over you eating "something frozen out of a box". does that make me a chuckle-head?!

Klaas, I also agree that they took her to the OTHER Fhuts.

I'm hoping that the video of Beth's interview on Jensen will be available today on his website.  We can put up a link to the video on the front page of SM.  I can ask Arubaanse to send the link to her family and friends in Aruba.  Maybe we can get more Arubans to watch the video?

That is a great idea. Make it available to people. Arubaanse has a large
extended family. Including one prominent politician. ( Andin )

Frozen out of a box is becoming the norm around here during the week. I have to do some cookin". Some of those Healthy Choices are ok, but they are not real food. Speaking of which, I did have some real food in here last night , but thought I would fall asleep before it was cooked. A REAL Chicken... oven time for it NOW  ...

Are you saying you think that Natalee and Joran were actually left alone together on Arashi, not Hadicurari?

I can certainly buy that she might have been asaulted while together with all 3 at Arashi, then taken to the beach near her hotel.   But it's very clear from the text messages, ect that Joran was somewhere other than his home, presumably with Natalee, after the trio seperated.  And I don't really see 2K going home and leaving Joran and Natalee on Arashi.

Shizaru - WHY?  What if "something bad" had already happened?  What if Deepak and Satish told Joran it was his problem and left him there?  Why wouldn't they?  Joran had good friends living nearby.  He could walk to the Gottenbos home.

Klaas,
I think it would be nice to put Sunfreak's statements in both Dutch and English somewhere on the Front Page.  Guess in the comments under the article about Beth or if there is a link posted to the show?  I just don't think as many Dutch will see them in this forum as would on the Front Page and there is the translation for those to whom English is difficult.

Just a thought. . .

msmarple wrote:



BOC Reply:


BOC -
I am not sure how to interpret the first part of your reply.

Without question many murder victims (and perps) are nefarious characters. But whoever they are, they still wind up as statistics. In most developed countries, it is USEFUL and MEANINGFUL to accurately record and analyze those stats.

We have seen considerable evidence that Aruba tries to skew those statistics. Natalee, for example - voluntarily and with forethought ran away ... we heard that drum beat for a long time. (After all, no body = no suicide, no accident, as well as no crime.)

Aruba didn't want the family throwing around the term "kidnapped" either.

And Aruba has no right to claim "1 murder in 20 years" or "2 per year max" ... and compare that to U.S. murder statistics (another ceaseless drum beat).

In actuality, comparing Aruba's known murder count for 2005, it is higher than that in the U.S. (See page 7 of the M&C thread.) Both as a national average, and for communities of 50,000-99,999 population.

We at SM KNOW you aren't encouraging Aruba as a destination.

We just don't want any more U.S. travel consultants and writers saying that Aruba has had one murder in 20 years in order to dismiss the "Holloway hysteria" ... and we don't want travel agencies to use that kind of reasoning to reassure clients.

We thought you might have suggestions as to how to communicate with the travel agencies. If you don't, then I'll just start another series of mailings to whatever agency association(s) I can locate.

I hope you see this and thank you for your attention. (You really should read the thread.)

Good idea!

msmarples - I got the impression that BOC did read your thread and was outraged by the information.

Terry, how is your toe ? Do you have one of those metal thngs on it ?
.
As for food, I am so tired lately after work, just want eat, not cook.
I cook like your Gramda used to. Probably. All from scratch. Next weekend is Canadian Thanksgiving. Had to take Friday off ! WhooHoo !
To do the cooking. We aren't having it here, no room for everyone.
DIL said she had invited 22 ppl. I said, don't you know any more ppl that are good eaters ? ! !  I love Thanksgiving. Warm enought for outside, thay have a Hot Tub. Lots of little kids. Granddaughter .  I cook and do the whole thing. Sleep well and happy that night.  Dreaming of leftovers I am going to have for breakfast.

I'm going on the assumption that the text messages were not a clever ruse to fool police, that in fact Joran and Deepak did not anticipate their text messages would be read by police at the time they sent them.  Which I think is very likely, because the idea that they were intended as an alibi isn't logical, for reasons I've stated before.  And which rules out "something bad" happening while Joran and Deepak were together prior to exchanging their messages, because then it would have been mentioned, or at least there would have been some hint that something had gone wrong. Deepak wouldn't have just been saying things like "Goodnight, take care". ect.

And that Aruba, as with any other high drug traffic area, will have an inflated murder rate.

Visiting areas such as that would be akin to visiting a crack neighborhood in the US. You may only be visiting and not engaging in any nefarious activity yourself, but you sure as heck are at risk of being victimized! The latter via robbery, caught in crossfire from shootings, etc.

Ok, well even if something bad hadn't happened, what makes you think Deepak and Satish wouldn't drop Joran and Natalee off at Arashi?  Joran had other friends that could pick him up (Jaime, Freddy, Guido, Koen, Andre Dos Santos, etc).  Edit - forgot to add PAULUS

Maybe so, but no "worthy advice" was offered.

I thought it sounded dismissive since "Most murders happen to those from South America and those dealing in the drug and sex slave trade!" (quote/unquote).

I'm pretty sure the FBI includes those kinds of victims too.

Shizaru~ Good point. If true, then Natalee was still alive at that time.

Shizaru, you have to rememebr that the J2K were not expecting a big hue and cry from the police over one girl . Their orginal story ( one of them ) was that, well, she must have gone somewhere else. Life goes on. She was a party girl, anything could have happened to her.
Plus, bet they never counted on Beth and the rest of them to show up so soon.

Which statements would dat be?  :oops:

I'm hiding out while a family is looking at my house..  I hope they buy and its kinda good to see that they been here over an hour..  I have my music playing and hopefully it will get them in the mood to buy..  The song that is playing right now is Grazin in the grass..

Justinsmama - The victims are on the beach, in a restaurant, in their homes, a hotel elevator (just off the top of my head). Sure, drugs, money laundering, sex trafficking, all kinds of bad stuff contributes to this. So do jealous boyfriends and wives, and roaming packs of local kids.

My opinion of who was responsible has not changed from the first time I watched the story unfold on CNN. My opinion of the ALE has not changed either. The details have as more is disclosed in the statements and information that SM has ferreted out. So, Shizaru, if you and I differ on he details, so what / no worries to me/ I know you have spent more time than I on the timeline, etc and please do not think I am being critical of you. I always read with great interest your postings because I know what you have invested in this case heart and soul wise.

Kat, I'm not sure if its broken are was just jammed.. Its just that the toe nail in black and it hurts when I touch it..  I just will have to cushion it when I play tennis..  I rode my bike yesterday and it was ok for riding..

On page 18 of this thread Sunfreak posted in English and Dutch a very nice message.

They've been there an hour??  Good sign!

O/T

KAT-Gram,
on the FP (Beth interview thread) you posted (#53ish) a reply to me that I didn't post.  I just want to make sure you don't think I said something stupide or rude. No feelings hurt, I just want to keep my credibility w/ you.


Hope to be back later this weekend. Going to NJ, down the parkway this time.

They are in the back yard walking around and they seemed to be really enjoying the view of the water and stuff..  The guy reminds me of one of my Dad's friends that I liked a lot.. The grass is kinda hight since the lawn guy doesn't mowed until today..  I was bored last night so I put out all kinds of halloween stuff, I hope its doesn't distract from the house..  I downloaded a bunch of scary sounds for the speakers throughout the house, maybe I should play those for this family, its really scary..  I have it on my itunes and I'm controlling my audio system from my computer..  One almost sounds like breaking glass..A friend came by last night while I was playing and he was ready to call 911 thinking someone had broken into my house, with all these little witches looking out of the windows at him..  It was funny because I saw him drive up and he had his bright lights on and he didn't turned them off until he heard me laughing..

I took it that he thought our line of thought was BS because these crimes only happen to those involved with drugs.  NOT SO!  Most of the assaults listed on that thread were perpetrated upon tourists and that was the point of that.  

While we do not know what happened to Bud Larson, Aruba is involved in saying another person died of natural causes I believe early this year, a tourist too, when in fact it was strangulation,  Interpol is on that one.  And now I wonder about the natural causes claim for healthy looking Robert Benson as well.  There is a reason the Dutch are asking for DNA on suicides of the past as well.  

Any country's murder rate is going to be inflated by drug crimes including that of this one which is what Aruba is always comparing itself to constantly.  

Sorry BOC feels that way if in fact MsM and I are reading him correctly but I don't think it is in the interest of tourist safety to have "experts" citing one murder in the last twenty years as this creates a totally false image of a crime free environment.  Then when "something bad" happens, we are asked why we let out children go there in the first place.

Well, if we knew the truth about the crime there, maybe we wouldn't allow them to go and that would eliminate the need for Arubans to try to shift the blame to the parents of kids allowed to go there who think it is crime free as claimed by AHATA and the Aruban government.  We were first told that there were no crime stats kept crime was so low and now it seems that there are and they are even disputed by their own police.

I will just carry forward and onward with getting this information to whomever I think should know about it and might also help spreading the truth about the crime rate there.  It would make a tremendous difference to me if I knew the truth rather than the tourism PR when considering allowing a child of mine to go there on a graduation trip.

Posted by Paul at FOB regarding Jensen's show:

Jensen! (RTL5, 22:32) - De moeder van vermiste Amerikaanse tiener Natalee Holloway was afgelopen donderdag te gast in de talkshow van Robert Jensen. Het was volgens RTL de eerste keer dat de moeder van Holloway in een Nederlandse talkshow te gast was. In de
talkshow riep Beth Holloway de Nederlandse overheid op om het onderzoek naar de
verdwijning van haar dochter over te nemen van de Arubaanse overheid. Ze heeft de hoop
opgegeven dat het lichaam van haar vermiste dochter nog gevonden zal worden. Om het
drama te kunnen verwerken, zou ze nog wel graag willen weten wat er precies is gebeurd. Ze
ziet de Nederlandse Joran van der Sloot nog steeds als de hoofdverdachte in deze zaak.
Holloway: ôHij weet wat hij heeft gedaan, hij weet hetô. Van der Sloot wilde Beth niet
ontmoeten nu zij in Nederland is, vertelde zij. De 18-jarige Natalee Holloway verdween op
30 mei 2005 tijdens een vakantie op Aruba met klasgenoten ter gelegenheid van het behalen
van haar middelbare schooldiploma. Het interview met Beth Holloway werd donderdag
door 450.000 kijkers (madl: 8.3%) bekeken op de late avond van RTL 5. De talkshow van
Robert Jensen scoorde gisteren 322.000 kijkers (madl: 5.4%).

Jensen ratings for BHT show 8.3% vs 5.4% for the next night. 450000 vs 322000 is 128000 more viewers as reported in this article.

I do not know if Dutch tv ratings are as selfserving as US funded "rating services".

Was it a ratings grab or an attempt to expand Jensen show into a different market.

BHT attempted to take the game to her opponents home turf after a loss in NYC. From the numbers one can conclude it was not a spectacular effort.

From the numbers the Netherlands like the US has little interest in Holloway.

When questioned about JVdS, BHT, or NH it appears the majority of the Dutch would ask "Who"?

A swing and a miss for BHT with no home court advantage.

It seems to me that if they were going to be dropped off at some beach it makes a lot more sense for it to be a beach near her hotel, where he could just leave her to walk back on her own afterwords, and he only had to walk 2 miles to get home himself if it turned out that he couldn't get a ride from any of his friends.  Also, if they were left on Arashi, then how did Joran get home?  I assume there's no phone record of him calling any other friends or Paulus after his call to Deepak, and unlikely he walked the 4 miles between Arashi and Montanja.  The Arashi dropoff theory isn't totally implausable, but I think the Marriott beach is the more likely dropoff point.  

Do you know if the statements by the 3 fishermen are in the pipeline? I'd like to know exactly where they say they were that night.

BOC's comment regarding the M&C thread:



I guess I read this entirely different than msmarple and Anna.  I thought BOC was saying the murders and crimes REPORTED in Aruba are BS.  He goes on to say how his agency will NOT sell Aruba and that you could not pay him to travel there.

BOC has already spoken about the crimes in ARUBA at a travel industry conference.

Shizaru,
It would make sense to drop Joran and Natalee off there if there were others present who could take Joran home such as Freddie or Koen.  Remember Anita first said there were adults where Joran left Natalee?

We just don't know enough to tie anything down as a hard fast fact.  Unfortunately.

JMO.

RE: paul from fob, they can't see their hand infront of their face.  They refuse to see any good in Beth, or anything related.  How, why, do they think Beth is trying to top jurin?! She is trying to find her daughter. There are more Dutch that know WHO Nat is now than before. And I personally am glad to know that some if not many Dutch are not heartless, monsters like those involved in the crimes against Nat and her family.
the haters are grasping a their own foul air.

Shizaru - I don't know what statements are still left.  There may be many we haven't received yet but I don't know.

As far as walking to Montanja...why not just walk to Malmuk?  He could get Koen or Sander to help him.  Remember how Sander conveniently had his cell phone stollen at school on May 30th?

Sure hope you are right, Klaas, and it is not us he is calling BS.  He could take that summary on Page 6 and give it legs that we cannot.  The problem is how would anybody know the crime rate there since the government and tourism industry seem to be one body?  

I'd like some attention given to the fact that the Caribbean is second in the World in the number of AIDS per capita, second only to sub-Sahara Africa as well.  That creeps me out!!  Especially with these locals and their drugging and raping activities.  

It's all something to consider in viewing this as the ideal tourist destination Aruba sells itself as being.  It is far from ideal in my opinion, not even close.

.

Maybe, but wouldn't he have called them first? And if Joran had called Sander there would still be a record of it even without Sanders' phone.

1.  Joran wouldn't need to call Koen and Sander, he could walk to their house and knock on their window.

2.  We don't know how much more information is out there on the cell phone traffic that night.  We also don't know how accurate the information in the cell phone statement is.

.
I wonder if all the information sent to Holland went to this Rural Police group that is coming to Aruba and not to the National Forensic Institute the way the computers did.  

The phone records for example.  Remember the computer statements carry a disclaimer that lots of stuff was deleted that they couldn't retrieve or didn't try.  Could be the same with the phone records or worse.

I agree Anna.

Or they had to say that because the records were so damning.

Now I really agree with this.  We are not seeing a true picture of the phone records.

When they speak of scratches on Guido's face and make up, I think it is something on this order that they are talking about and not regular make up.  Sometimes this is done closer to the eyes in black, etc. for a sort of Goth/Angst look.

I don't think he actually had scratches but something on this order at least according to his attorney.  Sure did get out of Dodge in a hurry, however.

Just something to think about. . .

(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/klaasend/23mvfoi.jpg)

Good Day Monkeys.. :)
Just peeking in for a bit...

I'm so glad that Beth's interview went well and appears to have received at least some positive feedback

Sorry for semi-blowing the margins.  I did look at it in preview and it appeared OK.   :?

Guess we will be off this page pretty soon anyway or I can fix it if it is bad for others reading later.

.

Just a quick drive by. I read BOC post as saying the murders that we do see Aruba willing to acknowledge are the ones that are did by the sex and drug trade and those from South Aamerica.

It's fine Anna.

1.  Maybe, but I think he'd have tried calling them first, rather than just showing up.  Just how far from Arashi do they live?

And does Arashi use the same cell tower as Hadicurari? Because if not I don't think the Arashi dropff scenario works, Joran's call to Deepak places him somewhere within the radius of whatever cell tower covers Hadicurari.  

2.  I think if there were any calls by Joran to Paulus or any of his friends after the call to Deepak, we'd most likely have heard of it by now.  I don't buy that there is a conspiracy by police to cover up phone records.

(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/klaasend/DeepaksRoute.jpg)

The police listen to the orders given to them by their superiors.  Who is to say that those records weren't tampered with before they were given to the police.  JMO.

.
Well, I have encountered a few kids who actually wear that kind of make up over the years.  Some seem to be abnormally attached to skateboards but not all.

Just a thought as I do not think Guido was wearing some nice shade of eye shadow but something more along these lines.

Just saying that I do not put too much into the scratches on his face business as I think it was more something like this.  I tend to hover around the three with whom Natalee was last seen.

And I don't care if only one hundred people saw Beth in The Netherlands, that is a hundred more than had seen her before on their own soil.

With that, am off to work.  And

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a360/AnnaBlueSkies/0585.gif)

And my heat will not turn on.  Should have checked it on a week day.  Oh, well.  

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a360/AnnaBlueSkies/thanisigenjoyday.gif)

Could you add to this photi a line showing the route they drove to the lighthouse, and also mark the lighthouse? I can only see the restaurant. Or a similar photo if this one won't work, I'd like one that has both a clear view of the relief spot and route to the lighthouse

SHIZARU

(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/klaasend/LighthouseArashi2copy.jpg)

(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/klaasend/Lighthousemap.jpg)

I agree Klaasend.... (did you notice it only has taken me 17 or so months to spell your name)  that BOC was agreeing with you Anna and Ms.Marple... he is very vocal against traveling to Aruba...

as is our other travel agent... who doesn't post hardly ever... TNMom (flag avatar... not the other one)...

Mrs. Red - don't worry about my name..no big deal.  Gets mispelled all the time!  My husband always says...it's AA not SS, stop making an ass out of me, LOLOL  :lol:

Sam - Aruba is "acknowledging" "1 in 20 years" and "2.4 a year."

HOWEVER - The crime stats advertisment we discussed - there is a front page post about it - showed NO homicides in 3 years. (Unless they use a strange, untranslatable term for it, and have numbers much higher than we came up with.)

Here is a translated version (from Klaas) of the table used in the ad; the police union is disputing these figures, and the dispute was the basis of the FP post.

Solo di Pueblo 9/20/2006
Crime statistics on Aruba

Driving without a valid DL
2003, 348 / 2004, 145 / 2005, 210 / 2006, 36

Robbery – aggravated circumstances
2003, 323 / 2004, 328 / 2005, 298 / 2006, 85

Drug offenses (3 LVN) (??)
2003, 247 / 2004, 270 / 2005, 191 / 2006, 95

Opzetheling (??)
2003, 132 / 2004, 128 / 2005, / 2006,

Valsheid (??) in writing
2003, 110 / 2004, 92 / 2005, 54 / 2006,

Maltreatment with a weapon
2003, 102 / 2004, 121 / 2005, / 2006,

Threats against persons or goods
2003, 82 / 2004, / 2005, / 2006,

Simple robbery
2003, 78 / 2004, 93 / 2005, 63 / 2006,

Destruction
2003, 66 / 2004, / 2005, 50 / 2006, 20

Swindling
2003, 52 / 2004, / 2005, / 2006,

Threats against persons
2003, / 2004, 112 / 2005, 76 / 2006, 29

Openlijke geweldpleging (??)
2003, / 2004, 91 / 2005, / 2006, 24

Violent robbery
2003, / 2004, 82 / 2005, 49 / 2006,

Driving under the influence
2003, / 2004, / 2005, 84 / 2006, 40

Drug offenses (4 LVM) (??)
2003, / 2004, / 2005, 76 / 2006, 20

Having a gun
2003, / 2004, / 2005, 53 / 2006,

Go here if you would like to see this in context. It was here before the FP union dispute story - because Klaas watches like a hawk:

http://www.scaredmonkeys.net/viewtopic.php?t=188&start=120

I won't be posting about BOC's post any more. Obviously it was ambiguous and I don't know what was intended. I can find some travel agency-type associations on the internet.

I know but I was all proud of myself for being able to finally rememeber !!!  LOL.... I have been consistent for at least a month! :shock:

Shizaru -- what if it was pre-arranged already for Joran to meet Koen or Sander or Freddy?

Maybe that's part of the MO of 'female tourist's last night on our island'.

Pick her up at C&C, have D&S drive to the 'lighthouse' area -- and voila. There are the other pimps waiting. We're told there is a 'lover's lane' area in the vicinity.

In terms of the 'alibi; phone calls and text messages that you don't believe are alibis...

They've done this 20 times before. You don't think they automatically have a process in place for alibi's??? In the event one of the girls ever decides to press charges?

I do.

jmo.

Makes sense to me Sharon.

Thank you, Eline. Yes, I agree. How can anyone "overreact" to the disappearance of their child, not to mention the crap that followed for Nat's family?

Can you make a couple small changes?  That big blue dot bugs me, just the arrow is enough.  And I think they made the complete loop around the front of the restuarant?

Could I see the same photo without any graphics added except Deeapk relief spot and lighthouse arrow? Maybe the road is clear enough the route doesn't need to be marked.

Aruba would obviously have the factors that inflate the incidence of murder, as well as their little PIMP boys and domestic murders. My point (and BOC's probably, too) is that Aruba has not even included those in their stats. The lying bastards.

Well.......way back.....wayyyyyyy back when Joran said, Beach...lighthouse, etc., I thought perhaps he was speaking of beaches near the Colorado lighthouse on the lower portion of the island. IF Natalee had even mentioned she had not seen the lighthouse during her trip......she may have meant that one because most probably she had already seen the Calif. lighthouse during her trip. DUNNO....just thoughts on my part, but I have always wondered about the lower portion of the island and THAT lighthouse and the beaches there.

Sander phoning Joran and asking him about a boat ride. Where do they usually launch the boat ? Joran might have known where Sander expected to be. Or where the boat would be.
Sander " losing " phone is a puzzlement. Then, Sander says he spoke to Freddy about his phone.
Probably lost it with a big sledge hammer. I don't now enough about these things. If you transmit pix on a cell , is there a "memory " in the
phone ?

Shizaru - let me know if you want a red line marking the road:

(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/klaasend/LighthouseArashi3.jpg)

BTW, I did listen to Dana last night. Louise Vargas sounded quite good.
But  :oops:  :oops:  :oops: I dozed off before the end. That is such a good story. I even liked the backdground of George Hodel and some of the people and things he was involved in.
I will have to get the book and read it. Sounds like one that a person would have a hard time putting down once started.
That house is beautiful. Thanks to Louise again for posting the pictures.

I mapped it and measured it using Google Earth.  It's 1.03 miles walking or driving the road from the beach to Koen's.

(http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h291/SunFreak2/ArialfromBlacktoptoKoens.jpg)

That sounds good ! !

I think with these two photos together, the route is pretty clear on the second photo?  But could you add the red line to the second anyway, so I can choose TIA  

(http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h291/SunFreak2/MapofNortherntip.jpg)

(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/klaasend/LighthouseArashi3.jpg)

(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/klaasend/LighthouseArashi4.jpg)

Klaas, I sent you an e-mail.  This person did not know about Dana, about Scared Monkeys doing the radio thing.  She will be listening in the future.  Read her notes as to her personal knowledge about Chief Parker, etc.  She lived in the area near where the Black Dahlia was found.

I think that we are missing a piece of the puzzle with the phone calls.
It would not shock me if he ALE missed it. They probably have all the phone records from the three, but not everyone who might have been there.  
Plus, is there a pay phone near the huts up at Arashi ? There is a restaurant there. After something bad happened, maybe they went the pay phone traceless way. Traceless unless you were looking for it.

Wow - thanks, you are right!  She might also be a good person for Dana to interview?

Can you add to the "Deepak relief spot" a notation about the distance from that spot to the Marriott?  With that addition I could just substitute this photo for the less detailed photo of the northern area

I was surprised a few years ago to hear that Rockford, Illinois had a much higher crime rate than Chicago.  I asked a former Chicago cop if he knew why?  How could that be?  He said because the drug runners have moved some of their ops to Rockford to avoid law enforcement in Chicago where there are more officers (local and federal) and they have more sophisticated information gathering to nail these guys.  The point being that Rockford's crime rate is high because of the drug dealing.  It's part of their statistics and should be in Aruba.  Period.

SHIZARU

(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/klaasend/LighthouseArashi5.jpg)

(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/klaasend/ArashiMarriott2milescopy.jpg)

2 miles. That is not far by foot or by boat. How long would it take a person to walk 2 miles ?

As I recall the Fishermen's Huts near the lighthouse do not have sides and doors - like Arlene said.  Could it be she knows something and slipped up when she said that?  The early stories had them going to the Lighthouse, the Kalpoes still claim they went to the Lighthouse, but now Joran insists they didn't go to the lighthouse - Bingo!  They probably went to the lighthouse!  I agree that Joran would not take Natalee to a place with a lot of people.  There's a routine in place for these guys and the tourists they pick up.  Wish some tourist who had met them, 'partied' with them, was posting here to give us some idea of their M.O.  It's clear they scope out the tourists by going to the beaches and casinos, but we don't know what they routinely do after they reconnect with these tourists at C&C.   I doubt that it's as hit-or-miss as Joran tried to make it sound.

klaas....if you are still here...i was reading the front page and someone posted something about larry garrison and a deepthroat witness.....do you know anything about this?

 :lol: ...waving at any monkeys lurking around!!!

About 2 1/2 weeks ago Larry Garrison mentioned that there was a witness, he identified as a "deap throat" witness, that had information on what happened.  All Garrison would say is that the 3 prime suspects and others are implicated.  Garrison said at the time he was doing his "due diligance" and that in a couple weeks or so he would make the information available.  That is the last we heard.

Beautiful new pic, Smish (pssst, she makes them on her puter!).  I keep thinking that these guys didn't think any coverup would have to be so clean and tidy.  They didn't want anything blatant coming up pointing to them, but initially, they expected Beth and the media to go away, hanging their heads that nothing was found.  I do think that's why the coverup ended up looking so sloppy and transparent.  They didn't know Beth and Dave and the US media would stick around asking so many questions.

What if you were in a hurry to get away from something ?
The Fisherman's Huts are closer north than the Marriott.
So, it is less than the 2 miles.

hmmmm....sure wish they wouldn't tease us :?

thanks klaas!!!

Just wondering here..

Is Deepak talking about being summoned to Bubali on 5/31/05??


from DEEPAK 06/10/2005 STATEMENT (http://www.scaredmonkeys.net/viewtopic.php?p=30749&highlight=sand+wet#30749)

Vacuumed the previous day.. as per a wittiness -- 5/30 in the early a.m.

Last time to the beach... 2-3 weeks ago..  NOT on 5-29 in the early am. or he did not get out at the beach on 5/30 ??

When did Joran get sand in the car?  Where and when did this happen? Deepak let sand sit in his car for 2-3 weeks? I think not!

Besides I thought the boys cleaned the car before they picked up Joran on Sunday night & headed out to C&C's. ?

If he is NOT talking about his 5/31 interview when the heck was he with Joran near the water (and where) atfer the 5/31 interview?

What was Joran wearing at C&C's on 5/29  and also on 5/30 - 5/31 at the casino and then at the house when Beth showed up ? Shorts on either occasion?

There are some statements that just make me go WTF :shock:  Why in the world did they say that  :shock: and this is one of them.

Sorry for asking so many questions :?

Oh ... Sorry  :oops:  Hi Monkeys :)

At some point he said the beach, but the beach is a big place.
Deepak also mentioned hotel rooms, but if the girl had roommates or was with a bunch of people, then the girls' hotel room is out.
.
It could be that it did happen at Arashi, they put her in the car and then went to somewhere closer to where she was staying. I haven't discounted the Gardener who saw them at the pond by the Raquet Club.
.
The phone calls blew this one out of the water, but it could be that the gardeners sense of time was 15 or 20 minutes off.
And Steve Croes.. he has a small boat. Can't figure why he inserted himself in this for nothing.
Then, we have Joran in the vicinty of the Racquet Club the next day, Paulus driving him there and dropping off a bag, and they were all around there the Monday night before the HT's even arrived.

We also have TJ Ward finding a witness who said they saw Deepak's car in the vicinity of the pond/Racquet Club the week following Natalee's disappearance.  He went and got a picture of the car, went back to the witness and they said yes that's the car.  Apparently, there was construction in the area - new homes IIRC, so traffic was unusual and Deepak's car is loud.  This is why I started thinking 2K didn't know what happened after the Racquet Club - Natalee must have been sick or something there when the gardener saw them.  Satish admits they didn't believe Joran told them the truth about what happened after they left him.  I think they left him near the Racquet Club and Natalee was still alive, but ill.  Also explains Satish asking how she's doing the next day.  The question is, who did Joran call after that and what did they do with Natalee?

Deepak's car has something very distinctive taillights. Can't remember what it is, not important. But then the lady retracted her verification.

I make very bad sentences when I am tired.

Well of course she did.  She lives in Aruba.   :evil:

He vacuumed the car for ants on the Sunday because there might be girls in the car.
But it did not pick up the sand that Joran left in there 2 - 3 weeks ago. Because he used the ANTS ONLY Nozzle.
Then he had to use the SAND only nozzle on Tuesday or Monday.

I may be coming in late with this comment, but I just listened to Greta's interview with Beth over at BFN...

I'm glad that Beth received a warm reception over in Holland ~ and I hope her going there does some good...  actually, it does ~ no matter what happens...  at least Beth is doing all that she can to help move this investigation forward...  and she can not give any more...

I did notice that she didn't seem to have very favorable things to say about Karin Jansen...  Karin Jansen is and was just not keeping her informed of what was going on in the investigation.  I don't see Karin Jansen as having any compassion or consideration for Beth at all...  And I guess there is no investigation going on in Aruba now...  How could there be with the mess that they're in!!!  I guess they just haven't closed the case file yet...  so that it isn't yet considered a "cold case" perhaps?

And Beth said that although there is MENTION by Holland of sending in a "Cold Case Deligation" no date has been set yet by Holland to actually DO this...

That doesn't appease me...  I'm still keeping up with the BOYCOTT of both Aruba and Holland ~ and of all Dutch products ~ until I see some reasonable results ~ like justice served...



And I thank the Monkeys for the discussions on the Statements ~ I hope that the discussion on the board is a help to the family ~ that somehow, that what is being brought to light will be a help to the proper authorities in investigating and prosecuting all who are guilty in the death and disappearance of Natalee Holloway.

Beth is not giving up ~ and neither am I ~ even though I hardly post on the board anymore.  She has hope that she will get answers, and so do I.

And though it is sad to hear her say that she believes Natalee dead ~ at least in death, there is Heaven...  and Beth knows this...

I have to vacuum today for cat hair. I will use the cat hair only nozzle.
Tomorrow, I will vacuum for dust, using the dust nozzle. :lol:  :lol:
Everything those guys say is such a LOAD.

Klaasend

Can you edit the map sequence on the timeline sticky so it matches the new sequence in timeline thread here:

http://blogsfornatalee.com/forums/index.php?topic=4590.msg146614#msg146614

thanks katz...that means a lot as does a lot of the support recently! i do not post much anymore either but just wanted to let you know i appreciate it!

Yes to the Bubali on 5/31

So he says he vaccummed because of sand here but in another statement Satish says because of ants?

Kat_Gram
The gardener is #1 to me as far as a timeline and who was where.  Wish we knew if they had done (and results of ) a polygraph on this person.

Deepak online at 2:00 am?  AG's witness seeing the K2's car on the raod at 2:00 am. Joarn's 2:30am phone call to Deepak (which had no Min. left on his cell?)
Joran wanting to go home becuse of school and spends 1+(?) hrs on  the computer after he gets home ???

JMO of course

ROFL!  I have to get the kitty litter nozzle out and clean up around the box.  Thanks for reminding me!   :lol:   If only they'd make one that works on cat hair and litter.

No, it was Deepak who made the Ant comment while Satish was in the car, before they went anywhere that Sunday night.
Then he said he vacuumed for the sand Joran left in the car from when he almost fell in the water. At a beach party a week or two before.

Well ants and sand grains may be the same size :?
Why in the world would you have so many ants in a car that you would have to vacuum then up?

Sorry .... but I always figured that was a translation thingy... maybe even on the investigators part.  If not why not ask more about them.
Has anyone here had that many ants in a car?

Just wondering ...

I don't recall Deepak mentioning a beach party or specifying when Joran got the sand in the car.

Here's how I wrote it up in the timeline:

SUNDAY MAY 29

Satish and Deepak go to Taco Bell, during drive home afterwords Deepak is bitten by ants in the car. Deepak tells Satish they should clean the car  because any girls in the car may be bitten by ants. At home, Deepak and Satish vaccuum/clean car.  In his 6/10 interview, Deepak says they vaccumed the car the day before his 5/31 interview at Bubali, because Joran had almost fallen in the water, and then sat down in the car with sand on his shorts and legs.  However Deepak may have been mistaken about the date and was referring to the vacuuming that he says occured on 5/29 (D 6/10, D 6/11)

Shizaru - it will be easier if you would go to BFN and go into "modify" your post, COPY it to your clipboard, then come here and paste it as a new post in the timeline thread.  I will delete your old post in the timeline thread.  

At BFN you can then just "back arrow" out of modifying your post there.

The statement about ANTS has been verified by Rammstein at BFN

On the 6th of June, Deepak says they  ( Satish ) vacuum he carpet of the car. before they go to get Joran.
.

In the June 10 statement, he again mentions vacuuming the car.
June 10, he mentions vacuuming again.
June 11, he mentions ants.
Then he speaks of how clean his car is and the vacuuming that happened after Sunday night and whichever time he is summoned to the Bulbai Police Stattion.

the vacuuming... of course the sand would have been vacuumed up along with the ants
.
the vacuuming again is new sand.. And unless you think, well he did the seat one day, the carpets the next day. not so.. he says carpet in the statements.

OK, done.

Shizaru
My point is when was Joran with Deepak near the beach and water (What I take to be wet sand)?  It may have been after his 5/31 statement then then again it may have been a slip about 5/29 - 5/30 time frame

AND what made thime think any girls were going to be in the car.?

About the vacuuming and then I will be quiet.
Why was there no trace of Natalee in the car ?
Do you suppose that the Ace detectives thought to go and look at his vacuum around the same time they noticed either on the Tuesday or the Wednesday that the car was sooo clean ? Or did they give Deepak a few days to dispose of the stuff that was vacuumed up.

I think if you buried a body on the beach for a day or 2, then had to go dig it up and move it, you might get ants and sand in your vehicle.

Klaasend
I'm not doubting the the Dutch version of statement that we have been provided and its translation..
To me it just not make since.. that if I tell someone I had to vacuum up ants that I would NOT be asked a follow up question.
That and was this from Pap to Dutch  and One person did the transcription  and  translation?

was there ever a search of the Kaploe home?  Did they take the vacuum or wash bucket or anythung used to wash the car with?lp

I will have to look but I don't think any of JK2's statements were taken in Pap then translated to Dutch, then for us in English.  Dutch is the primary language in Surname and Deepak and Satish would speak Dutch as well as pap.  Seems to me all their statements were taken in Dutch.

I need to take off.
Just wanted to say... I hope I did not stir the pot too much from my post back on pg. 21 -22 about Joran in and out of Deepak's car and the sand he carried tracked into it.
I know we do not have all of the statements and those that we do have is more like a "tell me what we just talked about and I'll write it down" story.
I know that there may be errors in the statements  translation (ours) from the Dutch  to English.. and have to wonder about prior translation / transposition errors of  the ALE too.
later gang

SeeYaaByeeeeeeeee

that was a pretty interesting thought you brought up oldfart - How did they know they were going to have girls in the car that night.

sure goes along ways towards proving premeditation doesnt it.

Not at all Oldfart - you brought up some good points!

Good question Blah - I have no idea!

I havent been able to find any evidence of a search but I could swear I remember that there was one.

I'll keep looking.

Not sure if this was already posted:

Natalee Holloway Story Used to Promote Horror Film ' Chaos'
By Jackson Simpson
Sep 30, 2006    

Steven Jay Bernheim and David DeFalco, the makers of the horror movie 'Chaos,' have defended their stance that their movie could have saved Natalee Holloway's life.  The creators of the brutal film 'Chaos' make the bold statement that yes - their film could have saved Natalee's life.

(http://www.nationalledger.com/artman/uploads/natalee_holloway15_001.jpg)

Obviously they are using Natalee Holloway as a promotional tool, but can it be for a positive that will warn women not to leave bars or parties with absolute strangers?  They believe it can.

TMZ has the video of an explanation from the filmmakers and reports that though "Chaos" is not inspired by Holloway's disappearance, the movie is being promoted as an unsettling warning to young women and their parents -- and that stance is causing some controversy.

***

"The movie is so terrifying and horrific to a young girl, we don't think any young girls who see the movie would leave a bar with two strangers," says producer Steven Jay Bernheim in the sort clip.

The web site explains that the movie follows two young women who venture to a rave in the woods. They leave the party with a drug dealer to score some ecstasy, and quickly become the pawns in a psychotic gang's sick game. The two suffer through torture, rape and murder and, as some reviews have noted, not in that particular order.

***

A summary of the film at IMDb calls it "Possibly the most brutal film ever made, Chaos is a cautionary tale of two teens who throw themselves into harms way. Two girls, looking to score some ecstasy at a rave, follow a young man to a house where terror awaits. There a gang of felons capture and torment the girls drawing them into a nightmare of violence."

In real life 18-year-old Natalee Holloway vanished just hours before she was scheduled to report to the airport at the end of the five-day trip with 124 classmates and seven chaperones from Mountain Brook High School in Alabama.

She was last seen alive with three men that she had just met.  She remains missing to this day.

http://www.nationalledger.com/artman/publish/article_27268741.shtml

--Jackson Simpson

Kalpoes house was searched on June 9. vdSloot's not until 6/15

(http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h291/SunFreak2/ComputersremovedfromKalpoes-1.jpg)

I think ALE searched their home around 6/9 but I'm not sure what they actually did in the search.  I know that initially, Nadira refused to let TES search the property.

HI EVERYONE!!

anything new? I've read the FP, I love to hear from Arubaneese

oh, I have on some cable station, and they're talking about Aruba card playing; oh boy ...

good job thanks

I thought I remembered a search/  Any idea of what they took?

Blah - you can see they took the computer but did they search and take the vacuum?  That is anyones guess.

KLAAS -- my guess is they did as little as possible, per the law, but why wouldn't they try to pin the crime on the K2?

Because Paulus knew that the K2's could get Joran in trouble.  The K2's at the time couldn't take the fall.  I think now might be a different story.

I agree with Klaasend, they were used until Paulus got his people inline.. I think the Kalpoes are expendable and they know it..

Does anyone know if Jossy has been publishing the statements in the Diario?  I wonder if he would publish an article about ScaredMonkeys having the Statements, Timeline, & Pictorial Who's Who.

Nope, none of the recent statement published in Diario.  Remember though, Diario is in Papiamento so they would have to translate back into Pap.  I doubt they would publish the English translations.

Klaasend,

I guess I wasn't the only one that got hurt playing tennis last Wednesday night..

"I need to hold off until Wed this week. I have a rotator cuff injury. I will be going to have it check out on Wed. I'm hope it's not going to mean no tennis for a while but I have to waite and see.
Chris"

I don't remember seeing him say anything about his arm but I guess it could of happen after the game..

Sounds to me like these folks should make a sizable contribution to the search fund and also Beths travel  organization

I guess nothing on tonight about the case?  Have a good nite and hopefully Paulus has some people that would like to take him down..  Someone gots to have something on these Sloots and if so, now would be a good time to go after them..

So ahve we heard anymore about Joran running back to Aruba??
what a pansy ass

Then how about an article saying they can be found in Dutch and English at SM?  I really think Arubans NEED to know they are released and what the statements say.  How can we let them know?  So many speak Dutch that could read the statements in Dutch if not English.

.

I need to purge my car floor of some dried leaves.  Does anyone know where I can purchase a nozzle for leaves only?[/code]

O/T -- it seems to be slow -- who loves Grey's Anatomy??  (i sure do ... ) :!:  :)  :D  :P

Tell you what, if I got out on the tennis court right now there'd be alot more hurting on me besides an arm or a toe..ha ha.  :lol:

I can see if Red will ask Jossie about it.  Jossie could put a link to SM or Jossie could print in his paper the Dutch versions.

I figure if Joran is in Aruba right now by tomorrow we'll find some party pictures of him.  Didn't find any yet from last night but that doesn't mean there aren't any, lol  :wink:

just throw some ants in there, they eat leaves

 :wink:

Hey Gang..
Popping back in for a bit...
Not in the best shape for a "debate" but just more or less just wondering again.
WE think (based upon statements) that the K's cleaned the car before going to C&C (ants),  Cleaned it before going in on 5/31 to give a statements and may have cleaned in the early am of 5/30 (rumored witness)
I cannot remember what time this rumored witness saw the cleaning (5/30 am).

My question is was this before 2:00 am?
Seems like Deepak was on line at 2:am ??? If so was the rumored  car cleaning going on before or after he was on line and what about the phone call from Joarn wanting a  ride home around 2:30
I know I should chek Shiz's time but I'm lazy :oops:  tonight

Oldfart - I want to say it was between 2-2:30am:

(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/klaasend/arubagirlcarwash.gif)

(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/klaasend/arubagirlcarwash2.gif)

I used to love it alot . The Book. When I was going to scrub on a case I had not done for awhile or one I had never done.. LOL


Terry, You are probably going to lose that toenail. You could soak it in some warm epson salts. If the pain gets to bad take a pain killer and pour some peroxide over it. You might want to try to keep it elevated when you can. Hope something here helps.

Ok who blew the margins? LOL

Also Terry if you have a dremel you could drill some small holes in the toenail in a few days.

Smish

Like I said...
This is just at statement that jumped out at me (better late than not at all)
Yes I remember stuff about Joarn NOT be dressed in what we would consider noramal attire for coming from a casino which is no big deal but he should NOT have been allowed into the casino to begin with.

My point is they (from what we know) NEVER aksed when / where Joarn got sand in the car.
If we are talking 5/29 - 5/30 timeline... based upon statements we have Joran never got out and back into Deepaks car.. Not even to Whizzzz :oops:

If after 5/30  we have meeting at the Raquet club... but NO mention of Joarn being in Deepaks car
It appears that they do not care much of having dates of events  being being made clear in the statements too. :?

How many disposable phones are unaccounted for?!?

Sam
On the margins

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a360/AnnaBlueSkies/16.gif)

I think it was Klaas!   :shock:

And on the toe nail

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a360/AnnaBlueSkies/exactly-1.gif)

If you have never lost a nail before, Terry, that sounds drastic to drill a hole in it but it may start to throb terribly if you don't.  Relieves the build up of pressure on the nail bed.   :(

It was me but no way to avoid it and still be able to read the screen shots of AG's posts....sorry about that!  :oops:

What if,

Sander had invited Joran to go boating with him. Joran makes arrangement s to meet up with him later. He has Natalee with him. I do not know how many others are there. How many would Sanders boat hold?

Natalee manages to get ahold of Sanders phone and get that call off to whoever the one where sha says " I don't know these people" The person who asks " Are you calling home" trys to get the phone from her In the struggle the phone goes overboard.

Klaasend
I wish I knew a year ago how to save stuff.
Had a PM (can't prove it) that is was at 2:03am but did not say where or what direction the car was traveling other than on the road to Montanjs :cry:  :cry:
Do you recall any info on the rumor of a neighbor seeing the car being cleaned in the early am and what time?

Was someone on the K's computer at 2am(?) and the Joran called at 2:30am to ask for a ride hoem
who was online and who was cleaning the car at (?) time. Or did they go online for a bit ... ran out to clean the car and then back to get the phone call :shock:  :?

Oldfart - I posted on the previous page.  Arubagirl is the one who spoke about the car wash.  It was one of her neighbors that saw Deepak's car being washed and driving in the direction of Montanja.  The driving part was around 2am and I want to say the washing the car part was closer to 2:30am but I could be wrong.  This person later obtained an attorney and would not talk to anyone about it.

Yep, it could have been something like that.  Even if the boat isn't involved, it could be Sander's phone that was used.

No, so far, there is only the sand OR the ants nozzle.
And the patent is held by Deepak.
The 2 existing nozzles have many uses. One is for ant hunters. You can clear the sand away so that you can see the ants so you can hunt them.
.
The ant one is useful in case you need to vacuum a beach, it just picks up the ants, leaving the beach ant free !
What a laod those statments about the vacuuming are ! !

Boy am I mad!  My vacuum didn't come with all those special nozzles.  I don't have an ant nozzle or a sand nozzle.  No wonder my house is so dirty!  :roll:  :roll:

Well, yes, Deepak said ( accoding to the statments ) that there might be some girls in the car. That is the only reason the Kalpoes went, Joran had scoped out some , last night in Aruba, American, drinking. The  American girls  thought he was an exchange student staying in the Holiday Inn. And they were friendly.

Klaas,
I could go a little further with the what if

What if in the struggle for the phone, they get rough and Natalee hits her head and dies. Now they have a body and a cell phone that could be traced. Might be a good idea to get rid of both.

Klaasend

That is what I recall (nothing saved to back it up)
Was some one on the Kalpooes' computer at 2:am (when the car was sighted on the road)
Was there a phone call to Deepak at 2:30 when the car was being cleaned?
I hope my qusetions make some since ??
AND i still want to know when & where Joarn got the sand in Deepak's car :evil:
 :wink:

Well, gee, sure wouldn't want to wearout a perfectly good vacuum cleaner.

Why don't you invent and patent a nozzle that picks up everything ! !
You could be a millionaire.
 8)  8)
I have been listening to Sirius radio lately. ZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzz  
bet SM RADIO will be better. With SEE NO EVIL DANA  ! ! I am still amused at that, it is such a great idea.

Yep, makes sense.