Scared Monkeys Discussion Forum

You all know the rules


(http://bestsmileys.com/fireworks/7.gif)


(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e82/klaasend2/7.gif)

I hate cleaning bathrooms.

Did anyone notice the latest posts on Valentijn's page?  Appears he was going somewhere today--summer vacation?  The girl named Ash seemed quite excited about seeing him.  She lives in Illinois, according to her profile.  Think Valentijn is following in brother's footsteps by visiting a girl he knows in the US?

I meant to add a fifteen year old American girl.

Well, Monkeys must be napping now.  I need to go to the grocery to stock up for tomorrow, so I'll be back later.

What parents in their right mind would allow ANY relative of them over here????? .... nevermind -- don't answer!

Hi Monkeys,

I was just reading something on the last thread that made me go
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b358/mishyp/shocked4.gif)

It was something about a purple body and cut off over the eyebrows...where did that come from?

Also, just saw Valentijn's myspace (or whatever) site and there was an entry from his ex girlfriend Natalie about waiting 2 more days...wonder if he's going to see her too?

At one time if I recall correctly (from a girl's website that I ran into accidentally) he was visiting another girl in Kentucky who had lived in Aruba and had relocated to Kentucky so I think Anita and Paulus just let these two boys run as free as a goose with diarrhea and have no problem letting the village raise them.  That village is full of criminals and are doing a good job of them, it seems.

Tylergal, that Kentucky girl is Natalie, who used to live in Aruba...Val's ex...

Yes and Natalie's mom was a member of the International Friends of Aruba.  The IFA was one of the first groups of locals to go searching for Natalee.

I very much noticed that Jorans brother is following right in his brothers
footsteps... But look who they have for a teacher and a role model
where in the hell does this family get the money to ship these kids
all over hells creation... I am betting there going to Holland to see there
criminal son and brother.. like peas and carrots those losers belong together

For real! I wonder how they can afford all of these transcontinental trips?

hopefully the FBI will hold the little dick at the airport
Damn US should not even let that family anywhere near our americans

yup......made me (http://www.nearlygood.com/smilies/puke425.gif) (http://www.nearlygood.com) too...dayum, I sure hope family are not reading here today...gross.

You all just hit the nail on the head.

Paulus worked only half a year in 2005 and now is employed by the attorney he hired for K2 and FA. He has worked as a temporary judge in training for 3 years I think and they don't make that much money. He was known to travel a lot around europe and the caribbean as well.
Maybe One Boy is deathly afraid to talk. for fear of simply disappearing.

Joran spent $300 a night at the casinos regularly except for a few winning nights.

I said something along that line at the end of the last thread.....I always get stuck on pg. 50 during transition, lol. Owell... (http://www.nearlygood.com/smilies/mf_monkey.gif) (http://www.nearlygood.com)

Tony - what is your opinion of Satish?

Laws, rules and money seemed to be no obstacle for Joran  -- why didn't he have his own car??

I think Satish is the weak link, I think he hates Joran now and is hiding from his family emotionally. He is a loner.


Natalee said to Joran in the car that night, " who are these guys, your slaves?"  D&S were in the front seat, J&N in the back.  Deepak got mad and Satish ignored it or wasn't listening. They are 2 opposites.  

I would like to get Satish alone for a couple of hours of questioning.

 :lol: I probably knew that at the time but what registered with me was them allowing that gurglewhonk to go into their house with their daughter even though the 60s parents allowed him to go.  What are these parents thinking that allow boys to go into their homes and court their daughters, and whatever else they do to them.  This is beyond what I think of as careless parents.  If I were a DHR worker, I would be taking some of these children away from parents.  I am sure there are ways you can prove neglect the stripe of a belt being on a child.  Careless neglect is child abuse and allowing boys to come into these girls' homes under the parents roofs, is careless neglect and a form of mental/emotional abuse as these girls will go on to be even more permissive with their own children if they live to have children.

Come to think of it -- when Charles Croes first asked around about who owned the silver car she was seen leaving in -- the local ids said "oh, you must mean Joran." hmmmmmmm

Me too.  He's certainly stayed out of the limelight.

Joran did not need a car, he had use of the family cars and no job to get to. He had dominion over his "slaves' with a wicked temper for their discipline.

Don't you know they are up to their eyeballs in this on-line gambling or on-line porn, or perhaps even prostitution there on the island.  There were people making big money off the innocence of these young girls that were "sold" into prostitution and I say that with all honesty.  These girls were either kidnapped as Rudy Croes was doing, as was exposed last year or they were "selling" them on the idea of some big income/future, etc.  The Dutch were the worst of the colonizers and it seems they found Aruba to colonize and make the locals their slaves.

I heard Van Der Stratten is in Bonairre now,  what a demotion.
My friend has visited the cathouse there and says you can get a girl from many nationalities there. Including blonds.

Funny you should mention that, I was just doing a search on Jan VDS in Bonaire this morning.  I found one forum where someone was saying he was doing a great job.

14,000 total population in Bonaire and every criminal is known by name and habits. If he wasn't doing a good job he would have to be in a coma.
Remember almost everything is legal there except stealing from tourists and rape and Murder.

Tainted money, honey.  Just like our politicians who globe-trot at taxpayers' expense, so are the VDS family and they are giving the Arubans who work for a living the middle finger.  Anita's job is only a catalyst to something bigger or a guise to pretend she is doing something for the greater good.  It's a sociopolitical thing.

If his track record is anything like it was on Aruba, that too will soon be legal or otherwise overlooked.

Anyone know what this means??....quoted from RU pg. 3 by Glenda in Pretzer Interview thread...

Glenda says:  
Joran doesn't have a car.... And since he was at the Radisson and the XXXXXX riding with Guido and XXXXXXX --- then Deepak shows up with a second car.

I've xxxxx out a location and person who have never been mentioned - and for a good reason. Everyone who gets mentioned gets their life torn apart. I'm sure that is why he stumbled about two different cars and when this interview aired -- You still had never heard of Guido Wever, actually the only reference ever made about the Casino Dealer who moved to Holland was Lorenzo Wever -- who doesn't exist.

Again, the Authorities know where and with who Joran was with in the 11 days that past before being arrested. Everyone that Joran knows has been interviewed several times.

Just further reason to believe that Glenda is involved in this cover up.

so sorry where is Bonaire?

Glenda just keeps inserting herself deeper and deeper.  I am so happy to know the feds have two people reading at that site.

HI Monks...  :D

thanks to all of our transrcibers from last nights show...
I had to miss it and have not listened to yet.

We may not be able to get more "confirmend" facts on a lot of the new info.   But just maybe  JQK  learned some new items too.

1.  First you have to remember she is FOS
2.  She is saying that the night Beth arrived Joran was with Guido and another person in Guido's car.
3.  Then Deepak came to meet them and Joran and Deepak were driving to the Wyndham when his father called (or something like thata)
4.  Then she mentions how Tito first called him Lorenzo Wever.

I'd like to know who that other person was with Guido and Joran.

Bonaire is very near Aruba, and Curacao. It is the"B of the "ABC" islands.

[quote="Tylergal
Don't you know they are up to their eyeballs in this on-line gambling or on-line porn, or perhaps even prostitution there on the island.  There were people making big money off the innocence of these young girls that were "sold" into prostitution and I say that with all honesty.  These girls were either kidnapped as Rudy Croes was doing, as was exposed last year or they were "selling" them on the idea of some big income/future, etc.  The Dutch were the worst of the colonizers and it seems they found Aruba to colonize and make the locals their slaves.[/quote]


Tyler,
But remember the online gambling and porn is perfectly legal there as is prostitution and pretty much everything else.  They can be in it and still
operating within the law.  Remember Posner was listed as a family friend by ABC news until they abruptly ulled that off the website.

It's ALL LEGAL!

.

one more question...was reading over last thread and saw mentioned something that may benefit Natalees's family court case but did not see the details...Klaas can you give me details?

http://www.bonaire-travelguide.com/map/index.shtml

(http://www.bonaire-travelguide.com/map/caribbeanmap.gif)

thanks!

Klaas...you continue to amaze me!! THANKS!!! There's my geography lesson for the day!! Big party or little one? Hope you have a great one!!

I thought you did that during the last thread - you were singing as you did it   :wink:

[quote="klaasendI'd like to know who that other person was with Guido and Joran.[/quote]


Didn't somebody tell us it was Dos Santos?
.

The person who was said to be gambling with Joran that day.

Didn't somebody tell us it was Dos Santos?
.[/quote]

Yes, that's who was said to be gambling with Big Boy that day.

Not sure, but maybe it was the THE HAGUE CONVENTION and the 60 rule:

http://patriot.net/~crouch/haguetext.html

She's impeccable.  I bet she cleans after each thread. :lol:

Yes, that's who was said to be gambling with Big Boy that day.[/quote]

sorry feeling blonde today :oops:  :roll:
Did we ever figure out who Dos Santos was?

.
Tony,
Do you know anybody named Dos Santos?  I assume that is the last name only.  No myspace or tickle I could find.  Supposedly that is who was also with Joran the afternoon or evening before the HT's arrived when he was allegedly gambling at the Radisson but Deepak's car was at the Sloot residence so I wonder where he really was.

.

Little Vandersloot looks like he is on meds that make him rounded.  Wonder if he has emotional problems.  I think the monkey next door has developed problems from living in that vicinity.  Poor monkey.  I wonder if little VDS likes the monkey, probably his best friend.

ldstlou - medium party, about 18 relatives and friends.  Simple stuff BBQ hamburgers and hot dogs, chili etc.

Watch the fireworks  :lol:

My little devious grandson coerced his parents into buying fireworks Saturday rather than waiting until today.  He asked his dad yesterday if they could shoot just a few last night, to which after much whining and begging from son, he acquiesced.  Finally he asked his dad what time, and he said, "whenever we can, probably right about time we eat."  "What time we gonna eat, Dad?"  To which dad replied, about 7, son, same as always.

Just before 7 p.m., several neighbors and their children arrived for the cookout and fireworks, to which son had invited them.  

He was in a lot of trouble today but parents went ahead and cooked enough for all the visitors and did some fireworks.  I think he has a striped hiney today.

Klaas,
We will behave for you to get ready for your company.   :? It's the least
we can do for all you do for us.

So we are right back looking for Dos Santos.  I wonder if Glenda doesn't know that we already know her secret name, lol!  Well, maybe she has
another for if anybody is right in the big middle of this it is she.

Remember she makes the magazine with lots of bridal photos and the girls with Freddie, Deepak and Joran claimed to be on the island to pose for bridal photos although did not look like real professional model material.  Maybe the other kind of modeling is what they had in mind
for them.  Freddie Specials or something.

.

sounds like fun!! Happy 4th a day early!!

Thought the earlier conversation about court case has something to do with there being a reason the judge in NY was taking her time...thought it had to do with something about after 60 days past...must have read it wrong..I'll go back

Here is a Bryan Dos Santos

http://www.zorpia.com/cgi/album.cgi?username=85bryan&album_id=-1

too cute!! Grandson threw his first party!!! haha

Check this link, I think it's what you were reading in the previous thread.

crap...was trying to get out of reading the whole thing!!! hahaha Just kidding!! This must have been it

Klaas...part that worries me is Article 4 says shall cease when child reaches age of 16. I'll keep reading..but not sure this appiles to Natalee

.
Not much info on Bryan Dos Santos but for some reason I don't think he is the one who would have been at the casino.  Looks too young and casual but then it's not as though they check.  

.

To be honest, I haven't read it all myself.  All I can say is some feel there is a strong possibility that the 60 day thing might pertain to this case and JQK is aware of it.  Also that the Judge may be waiting for the end of the 60 days.

Since you're probably right about this and many other things, I have just one message for Aruba and the VDS family:

(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b358/mishyp/upyours_monkey.gif)

.
Now I have to cook a bit more and thought had it wrapped up but will be back later.

.

The only other Santos is Arthur Santos who is a friend of Joran, Koen and Sander.  Also Ally (who I think is Arthur's sister) Santos was the one in the limo photo with Joran, Koen and Freddy.

http://connect.tickle.com/profile/index.html?id=EQRK.PIiLfERqdhf

All the tourist in Bonaire stay under the water as it know basically for Scuba Diving! Just do not leave any valuables on the beach if you are doing a shore dive!

That's the one I thought it might have been:  Arthur.  I believe I had seen pictures of him and some of the PIMPs and the PIMPstresses at what appeared to be a private club, maybe LaCabana, probably their gang-bang meet/swap shop.

I am going to have to print it out and really study it...thanks for the link. Also..perturbs me to no end...sorry saw this in the last thread also...that Dompig called it an "accidental" overdose. EXCUSE ME!! if someone slips something into a girl's drink..and she od's...there is no "accident" about it!! WEW!! thanks for letting me get that off of my chest!! haha

Hi everyone is there anything on the news tonight about the case?

I haven't seen anthing TerryD.  But I've been waiting for ages to be on at the same time as you   :wink:

I always appreciate your stories, humor, and kind words to all.

Have you been to IGFA?  I was there last week and thought of you..

sending some help to Klaas.....
(http://www.nearlygood.com/smilies/suck_kr.gif) (http://www.nearlygood.com) (http://bestsmileys.com/cleaning/6.gif) (http://bestsmileys.com/cleaning/9.gif) (http://bestsmileys.com/cleaning/4.gif)

Done yet???  :lol:

:lol:  :lol:  :lol:

Monday, July 3:
• The latest on the hunt for a serial rapist who is terrorizing Arizona residents

Hey Monkeys~

This seems to be the main story that Greta will be covering tonight.

Still trying to find out if there will be coverage on natalee.

Hope everyone is enjoying their week end!

Monkeys, I must apologize for my last post. While I did mean to flip Aruba/VDS off, when my post posted, I noticed the horrible irony of a monkey flipping the bird and the photo underneath it was the angel blowing kisses in my signature line...a dichotomy that I did not intend. :oops:  :oops:  :oops:

Perhaps I need to quit reverting to my old ways of thinking/feeling (monkey giving the finger) and focus more completely on the way I want and try to think and feel (angel blowing kisses)...

Sleuth,

Do you live in Florida?  I'm hungry and was trying to think where I want to eat tonight..  I was hoping we would hear something from the judge soon or someone..  Its too quiet..

I liked the monkey ! Made me laugh.

I noticed, but I knew what you meant. No harm done.

TerryD - just south of you, Ft. Lauderdale.   I'm going to Mermaid's also if any hurricanes come this way   :wink:

July 26th and 27th for 2006 is mini lobster season for Florida and I'm looking forward to that.. You fill the boat up with people and each person is allowed 6 lobsters and its fun.. You just drag someone behind the boat on a line and when they see a lobster nest, just raise you hand and dive and grab them.. I just hope a hurricane doesn't come in the mean time..

Mishy - don't worry.  The angel followed the other.... :wink:

Mishy, there is no need to apologize.  I was not so angry last night, but I am today.  The more I think about what has happened to Natalee and how this family has been treated, the more I would like to give them a procto.

Its kinda funny but the bugs(Florida Lobsters) know its not season and they are all running around on the bottom.. But near the season they become harder to find..

Hi, I missed Dana's broadcast last night and just finished listening to the pod cast.  Lurking afterward, last night I knew he'd done well, but now see how clearly he relayed the information he wanted out here.  Of course, we've all talked about much of what he said, but it's good to see someone validate it.

Mishy, the monkey salute was just fine with me, too.

Jacqueline, thinking of Uncle Mike.

To all, I hope your July 4th is maaahvelous!

TerryD
Are you saying YOU  use the person as Lobster Bait (trolling)  :shock:

Thanks 2NJ!

Ya up for AC tonight...before it closes???? :roll:

Seriously, is that how they are caught?

Yum, Yum.   Just had a lobster pizza at Aruba Beach Cafe with the mini lobsters on Saturday night.   (Also had a "drunken monkey" with rum, Godiva chocolate and banana liquer).  Quite a few of their drinks used 151 rum...

Thank you for the 4th wishes.  How is Dad?

:shock:

So If this 60 days rule applies the clock is ticking
either the judge will wait it out or there will be a ruling in 2 weeks or less
Hopefully is that rule applies and she just lets the 60 days go
That ,that doesnt give Taco Bell a good reason for appeal

Tylergal - it is a local restaurant on the beach.  Not actually in Aruba.  Mermaid and I met there once.   She is exactly like her memaid avatar....

Yeah, maybe stop at Monmouth on the way...DH is still in shock that he can't play his numbers.  Crazy stuff...and it could have a domino effect on other state agencies....if they end up with the 7% sales tax we lose all the out of staters who shop here.. :roll:  :roll:  I think it was the new NJ motto...the one I can't remember...LOL

OldFart,

Yep, we used the kids for bait..  I used to put my hands in the holes to get the lobsters until the hole next to me a large Moray Eel came out and was looking at me with my hand in his hole.. That was the last time I ever put my hand in a hole, even when I see their antennas poking out of the reef..

Bet you were glad you did NOT pick His  hole  :lol:

Everyone has their own way of cathing them.. At night they come out to feed and walk on the sandy bottom and they are attracted to bright lights and you take a pole with a net and put it in back of them and they spook they swim backwards into the net.. Lots of people use nylons nailed to a stick and snagged the lobsters but its illegal to to that but its easy.  People will but concrete blocks in different parts of the bay and come back in a few weeks, during lobster season and lobsters will have made themselves a home in the blocks..  I just like catching and eatting them, its just fun.. Your allowed 6 a piece per day and a lot of people will just bring a lot of people on the boat so they can catch their 6 too..

Hi 2NJSons, I hope you have a wonderful 4th also.
(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d118/Sanddrops/4thJuly.gif)

Tylergal, Dad is deemed not competant to drive, and should not be alone, but is also very independent.  He keeps looking for his keys for the car, and insists that he has to walk to local stores before he forgets how to walk.  I have a perpetual lump in my throat, for we are taking this day by day.  Today, told my sister that it's hard to decide what to do first, for none of us are prepared for this role reversal.

Thank you for asking...we need the strength to get through this.

Ok... I just guessed that they were trapped like Main Lobster
sounds more like catching Crawfish  where in the mid-west

thanks

Sounds like an upcoming lobsterfest at TerryD's  :wink:

Terry - IGFA is on I-95 and Griffen - you probably have gone past it a million times on your way to Miami...
(http://www.igfa.org/images/hq72dpi.jpg)

Check this out...
http://www.igfa.org/mgi.asp

 8) How was my Billy Crystal impersonation?   :lol:  :lol:

Wonder if this is the loophole for the age of the "child" in question?


Under which chapter and article is the 60 day rule y'all keep talkin' 'bout?

Chyna Doll & I just got home. Poor little baby had to have 10 stitches on the left side of her face between the eyebrow & ear down almost to her mouth.  I was in the shower so I am not really sure how it happened, but I think she did it on the babygate some how.  The babygate was up between the wall and the bathroom sink cabinets and there was a small space where the cabinets over hang from the floor.  I heard this terrible cry and then barking so I jumped out of the shower and saw the blood.  She had her teeth cleaned at the same time as the repair of the laceration.  She had to have IV fluids and IV antibiotic, and was sent home with more antibiotics, pain medications and a soft Elizabethan collar.  Stitches come out in 7 days.  Baby gate went in the trash.  I'm a mess, but grateful it wasn't worse. Hug your babies tight today, for we never know what is going to happen.  Thank you all for your prayers and kind words.

I will keep you in my prayers for continued strenght.

What Art wants us to do is "talk" about what is important to the case in his opinion.  We would help if in our "conversations' we get some information tied together in a way that is useseful to the prosecution of this case.  We  would help if someone a degree or 2 away from the "5" comes clean because of everyones' actions.  
Concentrate on VDS because he didnt arrest them fast enough: because he said that she was murdered and because he Knows Paulus so well.

I remember that my friends and I would dive around some of the old bridges in the keys and spear snapper and grouper for the construction workers for a few dollars.. One day we went to spear some fish and one of the construction workers told me to be careful because their divers said that there were a lot of big ells around the construction work.. Well I caught a nice size snapper and the largest ell came and took it from me and I cut the line to the spear because I didn't want to fight him/her for it..

Me too, 2NJSons_Mom...

SunFreak2 - sorry to hear about all the stitches.


I was looking at your sig line:
Joran needs to see OZ about a heart, a brain and some courage.

I think he needs the heart and brain, but it looks like he has heaps more courage than he should.....

.
Sunfreak,
You might want to feel up under that cabinet overhand for a nail or a screw sticking out where it cannot be seen.  I have found them in the most
unexpected places but these tiny dogs can really be hurt by them so just be thankful it was not her eye.   :roll:   Mine are trying to dine on flower bulbs since the ground is so dry they can dig them up easily now and of course most are posionous or will at least upset their stomach.

Always something.  So sorry your little one is hurt and hope she feels much better soon.

.

I still don't know why we haven't heard from the kids on that island..  Kids loved the internet and I would of thought that we would of heard more from the kids beside Melody and others that post all the hateful stuff..  There got to be a few good kids, at least you have to hope there is..  I thought the internet would solved this case but now I'm not too sure.. I believe the three main PIMPS with Paulus doing the coverup but I'm surprised that the other kids haven't talked..

Terry
I think Freddy A. is in the mix as well. I also think that this is a more sinister group than some would believe. There is fear on the island. You dont get a police coverup easily.

I would think that most of the kids that went to the private school that Joran went to, would talk since most are from other countries and are there for a short time.  I guess I really don't know the makeup of the island and the tourist industry.. Tourist industry to me, means very transient, people work a few years and move to somewhere else..  I know the Dutch aren't going to turn on each other but there is others that have no such loyality...  Just my thoughts..

TY, San & Sleuth.

Reminds me of dads story of the time he hooked a muskrat with a brand new bass lure..  Cost of the lure or take on an angry muskrat.  :lol:  :lol:

Tony, I guess I'm hoping that kids that attended school with Joran would know about him and at least talk if they are not living in Aruba now.. I guess it depends if there are kids that knew him while they were in Aruba and they are not there now.. Its so hard to get any information from Aruba so I guess finding where the graduating class went after graduating is impossible..  I know the Arubans and Dutch won't talk but others would..

So what, other than friendship does Paulus have on Jan VDS?  How/where does Paulus get the money to pay for all these attorneys?  How did Joran have 300+ a night to gamble with, how many 17yr old kids can "blow" 300 a night?  What was Paulus's "side job", the one that brought in the bucks?

So how do we get one of the 5 to come clean with info, especially now, 13 months later?

Tony
Are we correct that it was Arthur Dos Santos with Joran earlier on the day after Natalee disappeared gambling with Guido Wever maybe at the Radisson or have you heard anything about that?

Poor baby.  Give it a hug for me.  I will keep you and Baby in my thoughts and prayers.  These are just our little fuzzy children who chose not to go off to college, marry and never return.  They love us unconditionally.

And is there any connection to Freddy's brother Ernesto?

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e82/klaasend2/ernesto-alanis.jpg)

I probably should clarify that the courage is to tell the truth.  :wink:

I don't believe we will ever hear the truth from the Aruban's or the Dutch..  So my hope we can find someone over there that was there for work and is not there anymore..  A person that work the cruiselines, the casino's, sales positions for their company...  I look at Aruba as being very transient and those are the people that I would be looking for..  The PIMPS are not going to talk,  Kalpoe's won't talk but others will..

Why have we not heard of any anything (internet based)  in Aruba trying to solve this problem.. a simple chat forum.. if nothing else.
Not just the kids but the adults too

I was just thinking about the drinks all containing 151.  One of them puts me in the bed. :lol:

Does Ernesto remind anyone else of Joe T? :shock:

Not to me, BT.....

What surprises me is that no one with actual information has come forward with info to claim the reward money.  If there were any transient workers that knew something, I would think they would have come forth long ago.

There of course are the false tips where someone throws something out there hoping it might come true, but why no one that really has information.

Hey BT.....good to see you.   Great photo of Easy at work today..

Doesn't look like Joe T to me..

Wasn't there a cruise line worker who posted something about Aruba or the area?  Not specifics for the case, but I do remember reading something...

Terry, if you are right about who would talk, then, who would they talk to, considering the law enforcement handling of this case, and Art's comments about such? Seems the qualified, good officers were not assigned.  

OF, good point, so I guess that's been forbidden on the Happy Island...

What's new?

Don't make me read back, cause I'm too tired tonight!

OldFart,

I don't know anyone in Aruba but I would assume there are a lot of American's over there  since we wee the connection with Florida..  In Florida we had a time when we had Cocain Cowboys that would have shoot outs in shopping centers and were not scared of anyone.. So I believe these connections are still around.. I would loved to find someone that lived in Aruba so I could find out how much power does the Sloots have.  In Miami there are houses that you know are drug houses, the camera's the exotic animals, $100,000 cars and planes..

Sleuth, I was thinking the same.  The Columbian Carlos #2, per Art, was after the reward....we haven't heard of anyone else.  That doesn't mean there were not any, but it is strange.

It does appear they both get their hair products from the same oil refinery.   8)

I wondered the same, and did not find it in the document when I read it earlier. Maybe Klaas or someone else can fill us in.

Yes, there is a large difference in courage and lack of morality.

I look at Joran and the Kalpoe's as local thugs that got to used Aruba as their play ground.. I just don't understand why the coverup, the BIGFISH should of cut these kids up and gave them to us as bait..  The police force is a joke, its a rent a cope, but why would the BIGFISH allowed these kids to mess up a good thing.. I really believe that those that really control the island would of given us Joran and the Kapoe's head on a platter but someone stopped it and why did they..  The cops don't seemed to have multi-million house, airplanes, $100,000 cars and boats..  Is all their money hidden in the freezer?   I think the cops are a joke, as I think Paulus is a joke and his wife Anita..  They have money but not the money that some local thugs have in Miami..

There was a lady whose daughter worked on a cruise line with Aruban co-workers and who said the PIMPs were well known in Aruba, according to her friends/co-workers and they were glad to be away from there, that the PIMPs were known to be corrupt and ruthless and were protected on the island and she gave the definition of PIMPS, which I will not repeat her.

P.S.  I asked earlier but I think you must not have seen it, "how is your dad?"  Been thinking about you.

How do we know that the security guards who committed suicide, the man who was beheaded, the man who died in the painting trailer, and Pitbull were not witnesses, who never made it to court.

The entire info on the 60 day rule is posted in a previous thread, I think by Sharon??

Yep, that's definitely the resemblance I see. :lol:

Go to sharon profile and look up her posts, and I am thinking it was Friday, June 30.

Quoting from page 5 for you Tylergal..you missed it.  Thanks, again for asking.

Thanks Sleuth.

Easy pretty much pointed out the item that I find similar. :lol:

I keep putting this out there but no one seems to notice or just ignore me. So I am going to phrase it a little differentley.

Just imagine, you are a Columbian in Aruba with a family back in Columbia. You are working in Aruba in order to send money home to your family in Columbia. You see what could be a crime. There is a big reward but the perp is from an influential family. Do you tell or not?

Ok, now you finally work up the courage to tell the ALE. They put you in jail. Supposedly for protection. Then they start to work on you. Say they do not believe you. Say you are going to stay in jail until you admit you lied.

Now 2 months have gone by. You have not made any money to send to your family. They are not letting you sleep, giving you little to eat and you think of your family. How are they doing? How long can you hold out waiting for reward money that may never come? You know you are not lying but they say they do not believe you.

I just think there is more to this story. JMHO

Sam

Well I'm going to find something to eat and I just wanted to put my thoughts out there..  I wonder why the real power is protecting the Sloots and Kalpoe's and some others on that island.. Politicians and wannabe judges are a dime, umm more like a penny a dozen.. So why does the people that really have the money protecting any of these animals..  The casino's and timeshares are hurting and most people that have power don't Chit where they eat and I would think that would be so on Aruba..

I certainly will be thinking of you and I know about the lump in the throat.  My mother would know me some days and others not, and she thought she had to go to work, was worried about my children getting hurt and could not find them.  They were off at college.  She still thought they were all babies and that must have been her worst nightmare that something happen to them, because she seemed to focus on that and work more than anything.

Sharon brought over these posts from the Arubaboycott site regarding the 60 day rule:

Morning Monkeys!

I've been out of town a bit lately and away from Internet access -- so I have LOTS of reading to catch up on. It will take awhile.

I know we have 'legal' minds here -- so this is a question to them.

On Michelle's site there has benn an 'anonymous' poster that has commented many times on the Hague convention and that if we hear NOTHING that JQK has the right to start questioning jvds and pvds at the 60 day mark. I will post a few of the comments below -- but I have NO IDEA if there is any truth to the comments. Or if they are even the same poster.

Anyone??


"Anonymous said...
Looks like the Judge is playing the Hague Convention 60 days waiting period game by her legal advisement panel. On July 17, JQK has the right to call Joran and Paulus for deposition in NYC courtroom. We will see what happen. This Natalee Case is highly charged and political. If the Bush Administration do not side with Natalee, there will be a very serious consequence for the Mid Term election in NYC for the Republicans.
Thu Jun 15, 01:02:52 AM EDT "

"Anonymous said...
Looks like the NYSC Judge advisement panel acts on the Hague Convention War Crime 60 days rules protocols without have the initiation Judge to make a ruling on the civil case. That means on July 15, 60 days after the May 15 hearing, the plaintiff can call the Defendant Joran and his lawyer Joe T. to the stand for deposition. Joran will be escorted by the NATO Marine Military Police, and flying in from Holland to New York City. Joran is now under citizen surveilance and prevented from escaping to another country.
Thu Jun 01, 11:10:49 AM EDT "

"Anonymous said...
The New York City Supreme Court has the direct Hague Convention power granted from the United Nations solely for the New York City Supreme Court to subpoena Joran from Holland to appear in
court in the Month of July, 2006 after Joran completed his current school session. Joran domiciles in Holland and refuses to appear before the Judge at New York City Supreme Court under the adivisement of his attorney Joe Tarcopina. Joran lost his domcile protection after violating the Aruban Judge's restriction travel order by a Dutch court. The NYCSC judge can compel the testimony of
Joran who is unwilling to appear by the force of the NATO military police on the wartime signatory treaties formalised between Holland and the United States ratified in 1965 by Hague Civil Precedure Convention.
Sat May 20, 06:12:51 AM EDT"

"Anonymous said...
The New York City Supreme Court has the direct Hague Convention power granted from the United Nations solely for the New York City Supreme Court to subpoena Joran from Holland to appear in
court in the Month of July, 2006 after Joran completed his current school session. Joran domiciles in Holland and refuses to appear before the Judge at New York City Supreme Court under the adivisement of his attorney Joe Tarcopina. Joran lost his domcile protection after violating the Aruban Judge's restriction travel order by a Dutch court. The NYCSC judge can compel the testimony of
Joran who is unwilling to appear by the force of the NATO military police on the wartime signatory treaties formalised between Holland and the United States ratified in 1965 by Hague Civil Precedure Convention.
Sat May 20, 06:12:51 AM EDT "

Klaas

Have you seen Crioyo anywhere??  I'm thinking of the Aruban chat site.


OT
BT
Did doc say anything about Vytorin?

I agree Sam.

(http://www.waynet.org/waynet/spotlight/2001/images/12/holiday-parade/200/big-boy.jpg)
Joran

No Buckeye I haven't seen him at all.  He knows my email address too and hasn't emailed.  I've also looked at the blog he set up and it hasn't been updated since June 19th.

http://berdad.phpnet.us/

This is true, and I've always thought the underworld/mob could be the power.  Which brings us back to Tyler's post about those who accidentally died or committed suicide....all possibly eliminated.  JMO

Well, I certainly hope nothing BAD happened!!

Sam....I would last maybe one night....and I don't think you need to only think of illegals in a bad position.....I think you can substitute any aruban for the columbian....no one wants to die....no one wants their family dead or jailed or disappeared.....and we know that can be done

I don't want to say anything.....but our Big Boy was stolen a couple of months ago...... :shock:

After listening to Art Wood last night, I’m not sure Van Der Stratten is the culprit in this cover-up.  There seems to be a higher power controlling this thing and those two were just pawns in the ill-played game.

Silence would have befallen the whole investigation as soon as Van Der Stratten interviewed Joran.  It is highly illogical that he would have publicized a half-hearted confession by Joran to only retract his statements the next day.  Same is true with Dompig.  Why tell the world the three amigos are “guilty as hell” and risk your career, if your goal was to diminish the trio’s involvement with a crime?

Something just doesn’t add up with all of this and I think we are looking at the wrong people in regards to the cover-up.

Easywriter wrote:

Yeah, but I think Joe Taco is using "crude". :lol:

Klaas, thanks for bring Sharon's post over...obviously, I did not read all of the last thread.

MeMere wrote:

Somebody should steal Aruba's "Big Boy".

Link to earliest VDStraaten interview i could find. 6/2/05...with Nancy Grace no less. LOL.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0506/02/ng.01.html

VDStraaten makes sure to call the 'boys' witnesses, says they are of the same age, and also has an interesting response as to whether Natalee actually returned to the HI or not. Basically says she could have returned without being seen. I don't think he and Paulus had that part ironed out yet.

Perhaps no one has come forwatd with info because no one has any info.  Joran was left alone with her on the deserted beach, where he killed her and disposed of her with no witnesses.

I agree but if I guess I'm thinking more of a consultant that makes $200,000 ++ because they put deals together.. They are working on the new airport facilities or for Marriot and their contract is for 6 months or 12 months and they move on..  Maybe those type of contracts are for the Dutch but I would think not.. I would think that the private school is where most of these consultants might send their kids while they are working..  

I know I'm trying to see something that I'm comfortable with and as a software engineer and a contractor I see this all the time..  Some of those yachts have crews that might stay in Aruba for 6 months at a time and some might even have families that they send to school where they are based at..  Some people like to contract because the US gives great tax breaks for people working outside the country and some people like that type of life..

"The good news is that earned income from overseas can be exempted from US income tax (but only if you file a return and elect the exemption!) up to $80,000 for the year 2002"..  So you can make a lot of tax free money if you work oversea's..

Shizaru wrote:

While I think the first part of your hypothesis is credible, I do not believe Joran had the "where with all" to dispose of a body so efficiently without help.  

ALOT of help!!!!!    JMHO

I need to eat but I think that is the biggest surprised to me that the island is so closed and nothing comes out of Aruba unless they want it too...  Everyone have a great night..

Possibly, but they all know what eventually happened to Natalee.  There wouldn't be a coverup if they didn't know.

Thanks for asking, Buckeye. Right now she wants me to take something called Leschol. I started taking it a few days ago, so I guess I'll see how it works. If it causes problems, then I'll have a conversation with her about Vytorin.

I also wonder about the guy who was killed soon after Natalee dissapeared. He was supposedly killed by his wife. She supposedly put his body in the pickup and drove it somewhere and dumped it.

Just like that link Tyler or Anna posted the other night at least i think it was one of them. Where there is so little that is illegal then not much is a crime.

Here is more of the posts regarding the 60-day rule stuff...

These posts comes from one pro more anonymous poster(s) on Michelle's site - comments indicate if we hear nothing that JQKelly would have the right to questioning Joran and Paulus at the 60 day mark.

Anonymous said..
The New York City Bar Association don't support the Forum Non Conveniens.
http://www.abcny.org/Publications/reports/index.php?type=subject
Tue May 16, 08:10:39 AM EDT

Anonymous said...
It is very clear stated in Hague Convention that the New York City Supreme Court has the absolute subpoena power over all the civil cases related to all FNC over the world because New York City is the landlord of the United Nations' residence based on the Roman Stature. New York City is the only unique place in the world has that power, not even the White House in DC has that power. Please study the Hague Convention by-rules very carefully. United Nations is a Forum Non Conveniens to the Greater City of New York, so the Charter of United Nations pays tribute of civil jurisdiction to the Landlord who is the New York State Supreme Court. It is written in stone upon the Charter of United Nations.
Thu May 18, 10:59:51 PM EDT

Anonymous said...
It is a long haul. However, the Hague Convention allows the plaintiff to call witness while the advisement is in due process. The discoveries can be done in 3 to 4 weeks. But the monetary award by the Judge might take years for the decision depending the date of submital of the affidavit by the advisement panel.
Thu May 18, 02:42:14 AM EDT

Anonymous said...
Rule 23. 60-Day Rule. If 60 days have elapsed after a motion has been finally submitted or oral argument held, whichever was later, and no decision has been issued by the court, counsel for the movant shall send the court a letter alerting it to this fact with copies to all parties to the motion. While the advisement is in motion and past 60 days without returning an affidavit to the Judge, the Judge will not discourage the plaintiff from calling the defendants to the stand, if the defense have no shows, the defendants will have lost the civil case under the provisions of the Hague Convension. A default judgement follows.
Thu May 18, 05:37:19 PM EDT

Tony.. would you say that Freddy is the leader ? Meaning vs Joran ?
VDS isn't he the chief of police  on Bonaire ?

Who is "they"?

Rene Michel van Heinigen

Houdini - I agree.  Shizaru's comment that no one has any info would hold true, as the accomplices are not coming forward.   Is it possible that no one else saw anything??

As soon as I typed that I knew it wasn't clear.  I think it's possible that Deepak and Satish do not know the final outcome.  I do believe Paulus, Jan Van Der Straaten, Dompig and others know.

What if the Columbian witness that saw Joran take Natalee out to the ocean is telling at least a partial truth.  Joran would be the only one who knew what exactly happened.

I agree that some of his story is true, and he embellished it to make it better, thinking it might garner a reward more quickly.

Sleuth wrote:

Well if you believe (as I) that Joran could not have disposed of a body so efficiently alone.  You have to form a list of possible accomplices.  At this point, I don't think the Kalpoes did anything but provide the initial transportation from Carlos & Charlie's.  If they knew anything else they would have sang when it looked like the rich kid was going to pin it on them.
That said, we look to Joran's closer friends for assistance, and he has many.  His was a priviledged life on the island as most of the Dutch there appear to be.

Tyler

Would you please either post the garden lasagna information in the lounge again or e-mail it to me?

Thanks! :D

Klaasend wrote:

That's the trouble with liars Klaas, you can't believe ANYTHING they say once you catch them in the smallest of lies.

Believe one thing without verification, and you're on the wrong path.

I wish I had some words of wisdom, but that is not something I have experienced thus far.  It is hard when there are role reversals, that... I do know, my Mom just wasn't the same as her health declined. I knew I had lost the Mom I once knew. My thoughts and prayers are coming your way.

Glad she is ok. My kiddo's cat had one of those collars. Looked like a mini satellite dish. Bet you are spoiling your baby ! ! kisses.

Houdini - I agree completely.  My gut feeling is that the Kalpoes are merely chauffers, Paulus is up to his eyeballs in this and called in a lot of favors.

so are you saying they dropped Joran and Natalee at the beach & subsequent phone calls e-mail storys are trrue?
 It does not add up...  JMO

Me either.

NJ~ you and yours, in my thoughts and prayers.

Tylergal wrote:

That must be the "guy and the girl" on the beach part, because everything, and I mean everything else doesn't make sense.

The "guy and the girl" on the beach part is so ambiguous that there's nothing to verify.  No discernible description of either that would justify recognition of either.

I was excited about the possible physical evidence that would have made him credible, but that appears to be vapor.

If they were dropped off at the beach it wasn't at the Marriott, it was near the Lighthouse, IMO.

I agree, and I think if she were buried on that island, and anyone besides J , Pop Sloot and K2's knew, they would spill the beans for the money. (Unless, to tell what you know means you are toast, which is a possibility.)For that reason, I feel like Natalee's final resting place is the ocean.

Oldfart wrote:

Hell OF, it's shaping up to be the ONLY thing that makes sense.  Joran used Deepak via emails and phone calls to provide a half-assed alibi without telling him what was happening.

That might explain parts of the conversation in the Van by both angry Kalpoes, when they thought Joran had set them up for the fall.  With the help of Joran's father because of the pool meeting.

Shell wrote:

You know for the longest time I thought the Crematorium was involved, but Joran's apprehension about the missing shoe has me believing otherwise.  The shoe would have been burned also, unless whoever was doing the burning saved the shoe for "insurance".

But this is SPECUATION, I have no proof either way.

2K: I think there's a very good chance they don't know the final outcome, in fact I'm leaning that way.  Also very possible tho that 2K know the final outcome and Joran doesn't, if Joran raped her, left her passed out on beach, then 2K came back and killed her.  

Paulus: I think there's about a 50/50 chance he knows, altho I don't think he knew at the time the Alabama group first confronted him, because if he'd been involved at that point J2K would have had a better lie ready than the HI story  

VDStraaten: I doubt he knows, but don't totally dismiss the possibility that it's true Joran confessed to him.  I do totally dismiss the possibility that her body was actually found, the probability that ALE could have kept that a secret is zero.  

Dompig: I don't think he has a clue

IMO, at most there are only 4 or 5 people in the world who know, and could easily be only 1 or 2.

I think the Kalpoes did a bit more than provide transportation.

BTGirl,

I jsut wanted to say that the fire works scare me so leave the light on, ok.. I cannot tell you how hot it is around here. The temperature have gotten over 110 degrees . You can fry an egg right on either the pavement or Joran's equally LARGE forehead. (Not that you would want to).  I heard him on the other website asking Glenda "WHAT'S WRONG WITH ME, JULIA?" ..  Julia answered him "WHOA, DARLING!  IF'N I COULD REARRANGE THE ALPHABET, I'D PUT 'U' AND 'ME' TOGETHER!"
What she REALLY means is she would put "U" and "I" together. But she is so dumb she forgets to say it right.

Did you see him looking at Bo when he got served...He glowered back at Bo, like one of those angry giant saltwater crocodiles on a nature show who got stranded way out on barrier sandbar one typhoon season a long time ago and as a result hasn’t mated in 7 years.  

Rumor has it that Joran is back in therapy and its not good.. She started telling him that he should blame all his troubles on his PARENTS. He said why the hell should he blame his parents, they didn’t do nothing. She said YES, they did do something: They had you for a start.

I will be happy to in a short while.  I am on different computer right now.  :lol:

Shizaru wrote:

If she was murdered, the disposal of the body holds the key to how many people in the world know.   JMHO

 :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

No, If I could, I would "put you and me together," is correct.  It is objective, not subjective.

This is a big peeve with me when I hear TV personalities say "send it to her and I," or "it was given to my wife and I."  

Gee!  That makes me want to scream!  It is objective in that case and it is "me, me, me, me, me, me."

Off my English soapbox.

I love you, Terry.  Not everybody majored in English.

Shell wrote:

Well without the verification of blood in the car, we have nothing to prove they did nothing but drive them to the beach.

I think they might have done more, but I don't think they know where she ended up or they would have told.  If they weren't involved in the clean up, then who helped Joran?

I think there is a good possibility that they weren't Joran's "pimp" friends and he used the phone calls and emails to provide a "spur of the moment" alibi in case she was traced back to him.

Houdini
Ok... Kinda makes since but why meeting at the pool? if you want to keep the the K'2 in the dark?
Why the HI story? and Deepak  agreeing to it?
What of the Gardner ?  did Art ever state that the gardner passed a polygraph or only that he found him sincere and creditable???

I just got thru with the podcast..  missed it last night
and I'm kinda (http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c314/OldF/6bb6051c.gif) right now even though I had my (http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c314/OldF/6e101d32.jpg) with me while listening to Art & Dana.

Terry,

I'm sure Tyler is right, but I wasn't laughing at your grammar, I swear.

I just thought it was funny to call Julia dumb. :lol:

Tyler
If you do not have the Lasagna Post saved .... I have it ...
Just to let ya know..

Tylergal,

You made me smile.. Thanks..  I need to do somethings.. Later..

Oldfart wrote:

The meeting at the pool would "solidify" a story for all three.  They realized that they were the last ones seen with the missing American.  It would also assure the Kalpoe's that they weren't alone in this.  After all, Joran's father was a Judge for goodness sake, and even he said "Remember, if there's no body, there's no crime."  The holiday inn story was an attempt to shift suspicion away from the three.  I don't think they ever thought the guards would be arrested, but it did give them 10 days to fine tune their stories and dispose of any evidence that may have been still around.
Don't know anything about the gardener and how he fits in.

Tylergal, you get an A+ in grammar, and I am qualified to distribute those A+'s!!!  :lol:

But if the K's just dropped them OFF why agree to get invoved with anything  Oh ya the failed judge influence  but with $250,000 they and mom would not have to worry about that .
Jmo

Food for thought....  

"The break will come. When? I don't know, but I do know that a secret between three is no secret at all!", Jossy Mansur

AZlady wrote:

Oh Geez, now you tell me! :shock:   And here I've been just typing away with reckless abandon, without the "edit" function.

Between you and Tylergal having black belts in English, I might just be posting less.  Unless yall would take pity on me and be willing to attribute any grammatical malapropos to haste. :lol:

Easywriter wrote:

Okay Easy--------but which three are we talking about?

When we are speculating, sometimes we forget some of the things we know.  First, all three of the perps said in their initial interviews (according to Jossy's interview with Dana) that they all had sex with her, and she was going in and out of consciousness.  I personally believe Freddy and Paulus were also in on this little gang rape, but that's just my opinion as I have not heard or read anything to that effect.

Logic dictates that if three to five people are going to gang rape a girl, they do not do it in public on a beach.  Come on people, use common sense.  They went to Joran's apartment.  Jossy said this and Art Wood said the police leaked to Jossy info that they found DNA evidence at the apartment.  There was no beach scene.  

Disposal of the body entailed Joran and two companions driving to the Fisherman huts, breaking into them and then waiting for someone or something near the Racquet Club (where they were spotted by the gardener).  

Perhaps the body disposal did not go well the first night, and they brought her home in the car.  I say this because Art Wood said that he was told Paulus and Joran were out in a boat the following evening.  Dumping a body?  This is the night the Holloway Twitty's arrived.  Joran and Deepak were in the garage cleaning out the car, not in a casino gambling.

I'm thinking the 3 Amigoes.

Houdini, not a problem!   :lol:   I've been known to distribute gold stars, too, for effort!

yep - I suren hope yall take pity on him an I   :wink:

Someone needs to get to Satish, IMO

Oldfart wrote:

Only how to stay alive to spend it.

But if they only dropped them off, they would have nothing to get the reward with.

Good. Did you recover from your hard day at work ?
Loved the picture. But yo Mumma dresses you funny ! !

Could be. Deepak can't work legally on Aruba. Don't know what Satish is going to do now. If all of this stuff on the Kalpoes is because of the Dutch Goon and the Kalpoes had nothing to do with it, then the Kalpoes should be at the Sloots ... hands out for a payoff.

It is a truism for all life, not just this case.

You're so sweet and contribute so much to this discussion that I would overlook any "typographical errors."

AZLady wrote:

I do check spelling (a pet peeve), but in a hurry I don't "skim" deep enough for grammatical faux pas'.

Of course I catch them after they're posted - to my chagrin.

Did I understand Art correctly in that the "Gardner" is still on Island and they know where he is ?

Can Jossy verify this?   Can he verify that he ended up sleeping in the house he was headed to that night?

A witness not detained and still available?  Did ALE ever bring charges against Junior (land fill guy) for giving false testimony?

Just wondering

I think Joran and Paulus already have intimidated Satish to within an inch of his sanity.  They are also holding some sort of blackmail over Deepak with Satish in the middle of it.

Easywriter wrote:

I knew that Easy.  We were just having a discussion about who we thought knew what, and I thought I would put you on the spot. :lol:

Very good catch, OF!   :D   No, I do not believe charges were filed against Junior the Landfill Witness for lying, were they?  And yet, isn't this the same circumstances as the Carlos the Columbian?  Yes, I heard Art say that Carlos the Gardener is still on the island and is a very credible witness.  Hope someone is protecting him.

.Yeah, but the "joke" won't work with the word me as it is not in the
alphabet.  Yes, I agree me is the objective case but it is not a letter of the alphabet.  Has to be "U" and "I" to be letters of the alphabet which of the point of the joke.

While I agree that is ungrammatical, it won't work otherwise.  Therefore
it is a very stupid little ditty.  Move the letter U next to I, see, letters of
the alphabet.

Oh, nevermind. . . . . . . . . .  :roll:

But were we assuming consistency in the actions of the ALE?  This is one more example of selective justice on that island.

AZLady wrote:

I thought this a possibility.  It might be the reason Joran agreed to be interviewed with Greta, just to implicate Satish in the latest scenario.  Which might indicate that Deepak had something to tell, or maybe he has the missing shoe with NH blood on it.

AZLady -  :wink:

I actually can spell. My problem is that I have a habit of submitting first and spell checking after  :lol:

Art did not say if the first Carlos took a lie detector test.
But he did say that he was still there.
I have to print the transcript off and re read it tomorow.
Don't have a printer here, just at work and SIL's.
I am still a " paper" person. Old habits die hard.
I do like to hear first hand info from persons who spoke to these people becasue, like Art said something to the jist of that a trained listener can
pick up on inflections in the voice, eye and hand movements, speed of speech and make a detemination based on years of training whether the person is credible.
ps  Mums can do it with their kids.

I think a lot of people know “what” and that is why this is all so puzzling.  The “what” we should examine has to do with the “why” and we can’t get to that facet of the discussion.

This is the typical modus operandi on that island.  They find out what someone fears or hides, and then use it to control the person.  I think, for some reason, they are blackmailing Deepak into silence to protect Freddy.  They are using Satish to do this. Deepak wants Satish protected and kept out of this.  Knowing this, Joran and Paulus are telling Deepak to keep his mouth shut about Freddy, and other things, and they will keep Satish out of it.  This game spreads to other players, too.  Deals and more deals.  Blackmail and false promises.  This house of cards will topple when one person decides not to play the game and tells all he knows.  I wonder who that will be--it's only a matter of time.  As Jossy has said, there are too many involved to keep a secret.   They use threats and intimidation to shut people up, but this won't work on everyone.  They will some across one person, perhaps a young girl, or an older man, who will talk.  Then we will see some fireworks.

Exactly... but why not throw Juniors tail  in Jail?
When was Mickeys and Abraham arrested (time of day) when did search of homes occur?

and then when was JVDS / Kalpoe's arrested and homes searched?

Just more wood on the cover up bonfire to me...

That's the usual process, isn't it?  At least, my students think so!   :lol:

.
Remember the article Klaas posted recently about not assuming something to be a fact just because it seems logical to you?  Lately
I have been thinking more along the lines of a smaller circle in the know.  How about if only Joran and possibly Paulus were involved in concealing what happened.  What if Joran did it all on his own then went home and
eventually informed Paulus.  In turn Paulus may have eventually informed Anita of what their Sporter did but maybe not.

Why do we assume that this strapping six foot five kid would need any help and his hobby was criminal law and crimes so perhaps he had long ago thought of a plan to have on hand, just for kicks, nothing serious, just a what if kind of question.  Then something bad happened and he had to use it.

I think Joran alone may have done at least the first temporary disposal.  Paulus may have told him no, you were last seen with her, this won't do and dug up the remains for relocation.  But what if only those two were involved?  That could be why no one has come forth with information, they really don't know.

Of course, I reserve the right to completely change my theory at any given moment.   8)

Very possible, IMO.  The only thing that holds me back is Deepak and Satish going along with the lies.

Anna wrote:

Any final disposal scenario imagined that would be this effective, would have to include at least a third party.  Either someone who worked at the crematorium or an avid fisherman (sport or commercial) who knew the waters like the back of their hand.  I don't think Paulus did.

JMHO

Assuming, of course, that she is not in the Sloot cesspool and has been
all this time just as Granny Toad used to say so often?  Only place on the island never searched is the Sloot property.  Just wondering why.

.

I think at least 3, and throwing Paulus into the mix. I feel fairly certain it will not be Joran who cracks. Well, he cracked :?  mentally long ago, but not to crack and tell what really happened.

Anna wrote:


There is THAT!

Gotta vanish guys.  C-YA!

Or an avid watersports person....For example, there are a lot of windsurfers off the area by the fishermen's huts.  In all likelihood they would have knowledge of the currents.  Add access to a boat...

Did anyone else notice on Valentjin's myspace site that he said he has never had a bedtime?  Then on that flicker page, he said he was never home b/c of all the cacca going on there.  He's what, 15 or 16? I wonder if he's moved into Joran's old pad?  I guess "anything goes" in that household, b/c it sure doesn't seem that Mommy & Daddy ever gave these kids any semblance of any other guidelines.  :(

Ditto  in that I do belive in the  ' KISS ' principal.
Which to me applies here in what happend to Natalee but NOT the resulting actions of the cover-up.



G'nite Monkeys..

SeeeYaByeeee

.
I don't know what I think any more but sometimes I think we get too complicated and complex in our thinking.  As time goes along and no one
cracks, talks or tells anything, I wonder if this is not a much smaller
crime than I used to think.  Before the entire economy of the island
would be allowed to go down the drain, if anybody knew anything, looks
as though to me they would blab.

Uh oh!  Fireworks started already.  Think I will check on the dogs that are afraid of them.. . . . . . . . . . . .

Seems if giving false testimony were a crime, that jail would be full just with this case alone. Joran, Paulus, Steve Croes, K2's (although I can't bring to mind their bona fide lies since they have not given interviews)Junior, and that last liar, I forgot his name..and I am sure I forgot some. You get my drift tho. It is apparently ok to lie to the police in Aruba. Or is it, they are selective as another poster stated.

Take the money and run!  8)

Speaking of boats, has anyone been able to validate the rumor that Steve Croes is back working on the Tattoo??  I honestly don't remember where I read that rumor (I think someone posted here a few days ago??)

There was plenty of private property that was never searched.
Joran drinks too much and talks too much to be a trustee of the secret of where Natalee is.

Joran's side of the video tape, coming up on Greta....

Hey monkeys.  Stopping in for a brief moment here, has anyone seen Angie lately?  I miss my Ang.  She is falling down on her job of helping me tuck little Nemo in at night.  

I see we are having an English lesson.  Hall passes anyone?  I always use them when I feel the need to avoid learning.   :lol:

Thanks Jacquie!

Spoke via email with Angie yesterday.

Is doing fine, just super busy with work...etc...

Have no idea if this is old stuff...new stuff.

But it's some kinda stuff. :lol:

I think I saw it posted on the front page and I believe the poster was in error.  I haven't read anything about Steve C. being back at the Tattoo.

Lala's, had the same concern and besides work, Angie has also been busy with her daughter's wedding, etc.

She's okay. amd I'm sure happy to know you were looking for her.

Posted by Melissa on the front page June 30th:

Steve Croes is back working on the Tattoo party boat. Go figure???

Then after that on July 1st she posted this:

Steve Croes currently works on the Tattoo party boat. Marcus Wiggins still owns it. These are facts.

Angie posted some yesterday.  Said she had to work today and tomorrow.

Remember that Joran is reportedly a sociopath.  He may have started out abusing small animals, then offing them and hiding the evidence.  He's probably been planning something for a long time in that munster head of his.  Whether it was accidental manslaughter or pre-meditated murder, he probably had some plan worked out for disposal, just like Anna said.
 :(  :shock:

Thanks you two for answering me.  I was beginning to worry and I don't have her phone number so I can call and check on her.  Well, if anyone sees her, please tell her I was asking about her.

Now, is Joran in jail yet?  I guess not.   :roll:

For Natalee to disappear with hardly a trace , Joran had expert help in disposal of her.  I believe he got this help thru Paulus.  

There are more people other than the 3, + Paulus who know exactly what happened this night.

I think Joran will brag about getting away with it to the wrong person sooner or later.

Here is where I am with all of this, not that it matters much.

Natalee disappeared at the hands of the three individuals we have been discussing for over a year now.  She was seen leaving with them and the three punks that survived that ride out of the parking lot of Carlos-n-Charlies agree that she was with them.  So, that portion of the story has been confirmed by many, including the primary suspects.

Next we have the fact that Natalee was never seen again after she left C-n-C’s with the three primary suspects.  Again that is a known fact and only disputed by a few characters that couldn’t recognize their own faces on any given day.

Those particulars  leave us in a perpetual loop trying to determine exactly what happened to Natalee during a very limited amount of time and that is where the story begins to befuddle the mind.  We can travel down any road the imagination provides, but we can not answer what happened during those hours without confirmation from someone that was there.  Each of us can toss the puzzle upon the kitchen table a million times and try to re-create the event a million more times, but we can’t do it.  That piece of the puzzle is in someone’s pocket that we can’t reach and we will forever be inhibited by that concealment until conscience, or an act of God intervenes.

What we can investigate, discover and disclose is the cover-up that took place after Natalee’s disappearance.  It is all there in front of us and it is the key to solving this mystery.

Stop speculating about Natalee’s last hours.  We know what happened and who was responsible.  The facts tell us so and our gut feelings affirm that idea.  Start asking who had the ability to drive this investigation and why that person felt it so important to go to great lengths to make that happen.  Answer that question and all the other pieces of the puzzle will start to fall together.

Always remember the Watergate scandal was a relatively simple crime that would have had minor consequences.  However, the cover-up toppled a president and all his “good” men.

The same thing will eventually break Aruba’s back, if we persist and the spoils of the conflict will be answers about Natalee.

On the Record
07/03/06

Joran's take on the encounter of the video tape.

His side of the story...coming up.

Thanks for the heads up Jacq!

Thanks Klaas - I have not found any verification of what the FP poster indicated.

Lala's - sorry, I see others answered you.  Ang was here last night.

Easy wrote:
What we can investigate, discover and disclose is the cover-up that took place after Natalee’s disappearance. It is all there in front of us and it is the key to solving this mystery.


Exactly, Easy...

 :lol:   :lol:

Joran being served video on Greta now, to be followed by Joran's reaction....

On Greta,  showing the tape of Joran being served.  I wish the cameraman would have stayed still and got better footage...

ON THE RECORD

Does Joran deserve the treatment he got by Bo.

He responds :

Joran sat down with Greta. This is old crap.

What a jip...

Got sucked in again.

Jossy has written pretty much the same thing about Joran in Diario.

He DIDNT throw the producer on the ground!  Are we s'posed to be feeling sympathy for Joran??????  How pathetic.

I think Sleuth was referring to Steve Croes working at the Tattoo again.

I will stay tuned, but who gives a rat's..... what the goon's reaction was / is ?

I don't know what is at the bottom of this being rehashed ?
A reason NOT to come to NY  ?
Why not show the recent new pix of Natalee and ask for a reaction to that ?

Yep, and the fill in for Greta had no clue....very weak segment.  ugh.

Hey Y'all... what's up?  Our town does fireworks tonight... so Red and I have been hanging out watching fireworks on the docks eating lobster.. .Happy 4th of July y'all!!!!

Kat Gram,
I didn't mean the only private property on the whole island, just the only with a direct connection to Natalee's disappearance like being named as a destination by the suspects.  Yes, I am sure there are private homes not searched but don't think without some connection, that would be worth much.  But every where else known to be associated in any way was searched.  Even the well next door but nothing like that on the Sloots.

If it were my property I would demand it be searched thoroughly right at the beginning to clear that doubt.  Just odd the way that was handled.

.

Re; Steve Croes working on the Tatoo once again....how many jobs can a resident hold on the island, within their personal skills and experience?  If this is so, why does he now meet the pre-screening criteria, and didn't after the arrest?  

Just pondering here....

I was just watching the Chicago fireworks show on TV too.  I didn't realize so many areas did fireworks tonight!

Next year I'm coming to your house on the 3rd for lobster, ok?  

 :lol:  :lol:

Of course, I should mention that lobster is only $6.00 per pound and at 1.5 pounds... it's not expensive...in fact, steak would cost more... :lol:

Red Rover, Red Rover... send Klaasend right over!!  Of course...

Wow, Klaas, is there anything you don't have saved??  That is amazing.

.

That was a night that Nativelingo was extreemly talkative.  I saved all her posts.  I'm sure she's not happy about that now, lol  :lol:

Yep, and I haven't seen anything to back up the comment made on the FP.

Sat Aug 06, 2005 10:56 pm    
Nativelingo posted some interresting information about Joran early this morning:

1.  Joran has/had emotional problems and is a patient of a local pediatric/juvenile psychiatrist (fact).
2.  The incident where Joran killed his dog and blamed it on someone else is fact
3.  That bullying friends and the dog issue are the least of Joran's problems (according to reliable sources)
4.  His HOBBY is Criminal Law (fact)[/quote]
Number one was in Hasibokos. Can't spell.
Number two : Heard that one before, fact or fiction... the dog went into the resevoir near where they live.

Anita said that they had been some problem at school with another student, but it was worked out with the other parents. Maybe number one was a condition.
I really think that Joran does have some serious drinking problems.
There is a  monkey here who works in this area. She would have a better insight than me. Sometimes, early alcohol abuse is used to cover
and mask other mental problems. Alcohol abuse by teenagers is more acceptable than mental problems. I am just generalizing, but the goon boy always seemd to be drinking way too much for it to be the usual
rite of passage.

The only good thing about On The Record tonight is that it keeps the case in the news..

Mrs. Red - Fireworks and lobster - doesn't get much better than that!

I completely agree but think some involved in the cover up likely have no idea what actually happened to Natalee at all, they are just covering up for their friend and to be a team player, etc.  They have their own dirt they do not want to surface so they will play along to get along.

 Not only can we try to expose them for this but there has to be some consequences for their actions as this is a professional sabotage as Art Wood said last night and that has to be criminal in ANY system.  I want
to see them in handcuffs along with the ones guilty of what they did to Natalee.  And if they continue to refuse to do their jobs, let them be
the only ones going to jail and see how they like that.

I used to think just give Natalee back and that would be enough but not any more because they let it come to this a whole year later and no farther along than the first week.  Someone has to pay for that!  JMO as always.

.

.

Oh it was so cool.... this is the first year we went to this little place, a monkey last summer turned me onto it.... LOL..  so Beach... (not beachwego)  this was just Beach... thanks... if you still read here!!

Number one was in Hasibokos. Can't spell.
Number two : Heard that one before, fact or fiction... the dog went into the resevoir near where they live.

Anita said that they had been some problem at school with another student, but it was worked out with the other parents. Maybe number one was a condition.
I really think that Joran does have some serious drinking problems.
There is a  monkey here who works in this area. She would have a better insight than me. Sometimes, early alcohol abuse is used to cover
and mask other mental problems. Alcohol abuse by teenagers is more acceptable than mental problems. I am just generalizing, but the goon boy always seemd to be drinking way too much for it to be the usual
rite of passage.[/quote]
***********************************************
Kat Gram  - This information came directly from Nativelingo's sources.  Nativelingo lives in Aruba.  Red met Nativelingo when he went to Aruba to work with TES.

I believe everything that Nativelingo said about Joran in August 2005

I agree with Klaas.... I believe everything NL said last summer in this regard about Joran.. and Art touched on it last night...

And that seldom happened, she was usually very reserved.  But, yes,  is a good find.  If I remember correctly, the dog was thrown into a reservore of some sort?  One near the Sloots that I don't think was ever adequately searched as happened so often?  Cover up again.  And that is
certainly NOT what the Sporter told Greta.  

.

so has nativelingo gone over to the "dark side"?

Ditto to what Klaasend and Mrs. Red said.  I also beleive what NL posted last summer to be true...

Native, has family with political connections in Aruba... however, I don't think she is posting on the dark side... but I could be wrong... I don't go there..

She posted there a couple times under the name of Nativelingo a long time ago.  She may be posting now under a different name. I have my suspicions.  Arubagirl has not posted there in a while.

thanks mrs. red and klaas.  and  :shock:  to that article you posted, klaas.  woah.

Yes, in the reservoir/dump adjacent to their property.  Simian referred to the search of the reservoir in Montana, and also about Joran killing the family dog.

.
Apparently quite a few knew Joran by his reputation.  Even the jailer had
quite a bit to say about him if I recall.  What was his name, Murando or something like that?  So it was well known that Joran had problems and a propensity for violence.  I think this is the basis for naming his parents or at least Paulus in the lawsuit.  They failed to do anything about it.  

.

There might be some people that feel that the serving was over the top, but i think most just look at that video and say...that's the guy that killed that girl in Aruba. Repetitive showings of images as such do not help Joran in any way. IMO.

and I am sorry but every interview or story I have seen makes me think he is in total control of that family...like he is the parent and pvds and anita are afraid of him...

Klaas you are like the Blog police you catch everyone :lol: :wink:

Sorry Slueth.  I hope I didn't offend you. I thought you were talking about the other FP poster re: Joran.  :oops:

.
Klaas, who had the bloody towel?  The policeman driving the vehicle
in question or the one trying to report what he saw at the landfill?  If it was the witness who had the towel what could have happened to it?   :shock:

I know, I know, the Evidence Drawer that makes all things go away strikes again.   :(

.

The bloody towel was in back of the POLICE pickup.

I sure hope you're right, Igs.  But it just seems like Greta is trying so hard to get people to feel some sympathy for Joran.  If that's the deal, too bad Bo didn't just go ahead and pop him one while he had the chance.  At least get his money's worth out of the negativity she is trying to send his way.

.

Thanks, Klaas.  I remember when this first came out and I never knew which one was supposed to have had the towel.  But that would make more sense except I thought maybe the witness fished it out of the landfill some way, maybe.  So if it was the cop, I can just forget about it. :?

.

JUST WANTED TO WISH EVERYONE A SAFE AND HAPPY 4TH TOMORROW.

(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d118/Sanddrops/Flag.gif)

Klaasend, or someone else, I have a question related to last night's Art Wood stuff...

Do we know of any fact that either confirms, or denies, the possibility that the infamous no-body-no-crime pool meeting INCLUDED FREDDY?

It seems to me like he would have been part of any alibi-fabricating meetings IF he was integrally involved in the matter.

You too San... you too!

I don't think we know SB.  It would not surprise me though if Freddy were there.

Cool flag San - Happy 4th to you too!  Although for me it's still the 3rd for 3 more hours, lol  :lol:

Thanks, San!  Happy 4th to you, too.

How is your arm and hand doing?  Continuing to improve I hope?

Sleuth, I am unsure if I can spell any longer.  If I recall correctly my classmates predicted I would grow up to be an English teacher based on my accurate spelling alone, but with computers, I quit thinking about spelling because spell-check was too easy, as with calculators, I no longer enjoy my former math skills.  They are like my figure, all went south.

If I recall correctly, they admitted him to the mental health ward of their hospital.  I guess that is amnesty by insanity.

At this point, I'd pay admission to see that one ! !  :oops:
But then who on this board wouldn't ?
I actually wanted Joran to take a swing. So he could see the inside of a NY jail cell.

I thought I was the ONLY person in the entire world that no longer knew how to spell.... :lol:

BTW mrs.red and Klaasend, as far as I am concerned, our Cage is a MUCH cleaner place tonight!  :wink:  

I think y'all know what (or who) I'm talking about... hehehehe. I'm surprised it took this long!

And Mrs. Red, enjoy your time away with Mr. Red.  :oops:   :oops:

Think I might rather be in jail.   :roll:

Klaas are you all ready for your company tomorrow??  I have to chop up the stuff for potato salad and that's the last of mine or at least all i am going to do.  Better hop to it before I get too tired.

Will check back in to see if you have  posted any more of those dynamite articles before I go to bed!

.

I would love to pop him one myself, to be honest... for every lie or other BS I have seen in the last year all built up into one swing...

Well no one can say we don't give everyone a chance... or two, or three, or a zillion...

thanks Kat... right now he is snoring :shock:   and I am tired myself..... I will see you all later..
Happy 4th of July ... and be thankful to God and our soldiers for our freedoms!!!

And then the NY jail lose his paperwork delaying his bail. :wink:

Kat, I am sorry I do realize that you are Canadian...  :oops:  so I guess for you it's not the same....LOL

Guess a week or so away leaves me out....I don't know who sb is talkin' about....(poet and don't know it) Yes, a little rhyme...

G'nite....doesn't matter, does it?

My Dad's senility has it's grip on me. so if you are not following...don't take offense...I'm just on edge.  

God bless.

You too NJ... it's a hard road you are walking.. saying some extra prayers...

I'm jealous!  Fireworks here tonight, but no docks or lobster!   :roll:

Klaas, amazes me!  Misses nothing!  The most resourceful person I've ever seen....   and also keeps us all in line!  

We LOVE you Klaas :lol:

Sb, if you are still here, I recall Mickey Johsn being questioned about "family around the pool," and he was asked specifically "who was family?" to which he replied, "Deepak just said family."  Maybe it's like the Godfather families, just a different kind of family.

Anna, Fred Maduro.

The 4th should remind us all of what a SPECIAL place this country is.

I personally don't want to SEE it be like "everywhere else", the way some of these bleeding-hearts would have us be.

Be like ARUBA? YOU GOT TO BE KIDDING ME!

I saee people trying to get TO America on inner tubes and milk bottles tied together. Risking their lives in 110-degree desert heat. (AS MUCH as I am against the illegal immigrants, I DO admit that they have a lot of courage. I don't see anyone workin' that hard to reach Mexico LOL.)

We don't need to "join the world community", we need it to join US. They can enact representative governments and ensure the freedoms their people deserve... LIKE US. They can establish a free-market economic system with opportunity for all... LIKE US. They can allow information to move freely and protect the rights of decent, moral people to be a force for good in society... LIKE US.

I only hope we STAY that way, instead of becoming like them (which sadly happens more and more all the time, with every boneheaded court ruling which strips more freedom away.)

GOD BLESS THE USA

The alternative is unthinkable.

Remember the picture of Freddy eating at the VDS table....

Amen, Sb.... well said...

Good night eveyone!  I need to go some sleep... y'all have a fabulous 4th of July and thank God for our soldiers that are serving over seas...

Nite!!

Yes Anna - I'm about ready.  Just have one more room to clean.  The only thing I have to cook tomorrow is chili and corn so not alot of work.  People won't be arriving until 3 or 4 so all is good!!

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e82/klaasend2/vdsdinner.jpg)

BTW tyler, I still didn't get that info you sent.

I have an interesting e-mail in regards to our summer heat that we've been complaining about.

Tomorrow's weather forecast in Iraq:

Low 111, High 122.

THANK A SOLDIER.

Sb, have you blocked my messages? :lol:

Just one big happy family of PIMPS.

Well, we do our thing July 1. We have troops serving in the Middle East.
Didn't go to the big celebration a the park on Saturday, took a pass.
There is a military base close to where I live. And we have Viet Vets ( Canadians ) here.
One thing I notice on Canada Day is the immigrant families. They appreciate the freedoms in our countries.
We take things for granted here.
At my work, we have a few recent ... ten years or less refugeees or
immigrants from the Balkans, China and Romania. They can tell us stories that make you want to kiss the ground you are standing on.
These are educated people who fled those countries.

Well, I am totally jealous of Mrs. Red & Red having lobster, my favorite food.  I will be home tomorrow.  Kids and DH all went to the Club for dinner and fireworks tonight, and I could not go. :cry:  

I shall not complain.  My temperature is less than that of Iraq's and I have no one shooting at me, but I did come upon a snake in the shop today, all stretched out on the potting bench and did not see him until I reached to get my secuters.  I gently moved my whole self away and got DH to commit murder.  He was trying to get into my chicken pellets.

tyler, I would NEVER block your messages.

That's got me concerned because we never know when someone may be messing around with our e-mail and Inboxes. We have had this happen before... and there was funny business going on.

That is right.  You remember my e-mail was dinked with at one time and Lala's and I were not getting each other's mail.  

I will get #1 son to look at computer tomorrow from afar.

This was posted by Tazman in the front page area - I found it interresting:

Tazman Says:

July 2nd, 2006 at 3:01 pm
Joran stated that “it” happened 20 times before with no problems, then what if the following had become the habit for him and his friends?

Since the criminals in the sex trade are looking for beautiful young American “blonde” girls, what better place than an island like Aruba where high school graduates go to celebrate for the kidnapping to occur? It seems that they would need good looking young white guys (appearing to be Europeans), to separate them from the group that they are with by acting like they can be trusted by saying they are also “students” staying at the same hotel, and then quickly getting away with them on their last night on the island. If the people involved in the sex trade themselves tried to lure young girls away, the friends of the young girls would be more “alarmed” that there was a kidnapping going down and would have interferred. They would most likely be older and/or seedier looking than the young teenage guys. Joran appeared to Natalee and her friends to be just another “teenage” tourist getting into what appeared to be a “taxi” with Natalee to go back to the hotel they were (allegedly) both staying at with other “teenage” tourists.

I believe that Natalee was drugged and lured away by Joran and the Kalpoes not only for them to sexually attack her, but also for them to hand her over to others. Their “pimp” gang must also be doing this by rotating clubs and guys. Thereby they all cover each other’s ass. Paulos must be involved as a leader to help in transporting the girls off the island. He came back from Holland just in time to participate. He could have some seedy cliends that are willing to do anything for him or vice versa.

Maybe the reason Joran is allowed to gamble and drink in the casinos is to pick up girls for the sole reason of kidnapping. And, the video of Paulos, Joran and girls at the casino could have been the selection process by Paulos of Natalee for Joran to follow through on the kidnapping. Remember Joran indicated he was interested in Natalee’s friend? Well, he must have been told to pick up on Natalee instead. Smaller more petite girl would be easier to physically force and transport. Paulos likes short women (Anita).

Little Chyna Doll is resting comfortably, bless her heart.  I'm down about a half grand $, but she's worth every penny.

I'm going to go try to finish my WWII book by Scott Turow, called Ordinary Heroes.  Thought provoking.

G'nite, Monkeys!   8)

I have always thought that taz-man was one one of our more knowledgeable posters.. wondered what happened to him?

We lost a TON of good talent in the 2nd big crash. Some people never did get back after that.  :(

.
Klaas,
I can believe that group capable of doing such things but there are no
large numbers of girls reported missing.  Their families would be all upset and making all kinds of waves and probably uniting to find out what was happening.  As far as I know, only females to go missing in Aruba are Natalee and Amy Bradley.  Now we know the Dept of Justice considers Aruba bad for human traffic but think mostly from South America to Europe.  That likely requires personal supervision for transporting, etc. so this does not really seem likely to me to be happening.  Not that I think any of that group above it, JMO.

He posts on the front page, don't know why he's not in the forum.  I'm sure if he asked he could get back in.

Anna - I agree there are no large numbers of girls missing.  But the theory of Joran being allowed to gamble for the purpose of picking up locals to "share" with Paulus and others is a possibility, IMO.

Yep, just take them for the night and return them by morning dazed and confused.  Well, he practically told us that saying they had done it twenty times before and Deepak told Jamie Skeeters sort of the same thing.  

Should be considered attempted murder on each of the counts of twenty because of the danger it puts the victim in from the drugs and lack of any training, etc.  Could have easily killed all of them not knowing what they are doing like that.  It is tricky to render a human being unconscious and they are not qualified in any way not to mention not having permission.  Charge them with attempted murder and every other creep who uses date rape drugs, too.  
 :(
.

You have to wonder what the difference is between the "Bailey Ann" incident and Natalee.

We have PHOTOGRAPHIC evidence that Joran and the rest have done things like this before. But Bailey Ann is alive in the US and I don't think we even know conclusively that she was sexually assaulted. For all we know she may have gone along willingly.

What's the difference? The FIGHT that Natalee put up? Or other factors, like involvement of other seedier elements or people, or a different intended destination for the victim.

.
Going to prowl around on the Front Page a little bit then hit the Monkey Bunkey.  This heat is really hard on me for some reasosn this year.  More than any year I can remember.  

Sleep well and have a wonderful Fourth of July.  We have much for which to be thankful and top on my list is that we have our judicial system and the freedoms we  enjoy thanks to the sacrifices made by our military and intelligence community.  We have some kooky judges and a few stray and off track rulings but by and large it has to be the best system in the world.  I am shocked at how shoddy the judicial system of other countries actually is.

Goodnight!

Exactly - I don't think Bailey Ann put up a fight  :wink:

Good nite Anna - I'll be around a bit tomorrow, see you then.

klaasend, I want to be careful not to presume about Bailey Ann's thoughts or motives because she is innocent of any crimes and she truly isn't related to this case. Of all the people that have been named in regards to all this, she would have better grounds to get offended or look for legal recourse if she was spoken against, than anyone else.

I have wondered if she follows the case at all, or if she reads here. I tend to doubt it, because one would think she would be talking to someone "official" about her experience if she thought it would shed light on what happened. We have no sense that she has done that... at least as far as we know.

We have no idea if she would support Beth and the family, or not.

I guess everyone is winding down, so I will too. I ckeep coming in when everyone is tired and ready to sign off!

Y'all have a safe and happy 4th and let's check in when we can!

SB - very true.  We cannot presume anything about Bailey Ann.  I do hope that the proper authorities have contacted her though as she may be able to shed some light into Joran, Deepak and Freddy's normal mode.

Goodnite all.

Klaas-

I have to post I surely am sorry my O/T exchange with Peaches became ammunition this afternoon  :oops: golly, never would have wanted that to happen!!

I would not wish to slander Bailey Ann either but I do think one thing was different here, for I don't think most of these girls were being surveyed by Paulus - and I do still believe that was him in the casino next to Natalee.

We also can't forget how few young women are chaste at that age, that may have created the entire scenario of harm having come to her, for she did fight back? That one fact could have likely increased their interest in her, while also placing her at greater risk due to resisting them.

I found Art Wood's commentary on the police van transcript with the thee perps about hitting the girl with the car pretty chilling. I can see that happening if a victim starts running and you fear you can't catch her on foot? Or worse, you are so angered you lose all control?

night all !!

SunFreak2 - no offense at all.  Not for one second...

 :wink:

Yep, Klaas was singing as she cleaned the toilets earlier   :lol:

HAPPY FREEDOM DAY Monkeys!!!
God Bless America :D
Everyone have a safe 4th and much fun to all. Remember our fallen heros that gave their lives so that on this day we could eat bar b que, drink beer, swim in the pool and be with our loved ones.
LET FREEDOM RING

So true Spooky.  Good morning to you, and Happy 4th...

(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a335/my_photos_/fireworks_4th_1.gif)

Bailey Anne

sb writes:  "You have to wonder what the difference is between the "Bailey Ann" incident and Natalee..."

Revisiting the episode and events surrounding Bailey Anne and her friend Alyse is important to case and one of key factors for those who have followed case in detail to understanding modus.  Before the crash, there was a thread that sought to detail the similarities and differences between the events: Bailey Anne vs Natalee.

The similarities of the events leading up to the nite of the pix w/ Loco Stefy naked in bed are remarkable to the reported known events of Natalee.  And one could further extrapolate these events as happening numerous times before March 2005, and after, as well.

As noted by sb, the differences are important to catalog, as they help to illuminate the entire event:

1.  3 Girls VS 1 Girl: This highlights the potential for sinister forethought as part of plan.  The mitigating influence of a group of females significantly changes male group dynamics attached to assault.  Natalee was at a severe disadvantage here.

2.  The Bait: Stefy VS jvds:  The work of Stefy, imo, demonstrates a more practiced approach to events surrounding luring, especially when "wedding modeling" is factored in.  Further executed in conjunction  w/ Freddie, who has, by nature of criminal charges lodged, done plenty of this type of thing before.  And aspects of the luring may have been consensual, though of course this is not known. This changes as jvds turns into the "bait".  With male as bait, dynamics again change -- further, and importantly it is highly unlikely that jvds was "bait" in the sense used to describe Stefy.  More likely is that for jvds to play bait role, he would have had to deceive: "it's a cab, I'm 19, exchange student, staying at HI, want a lift..."

3.  Freddy VS Satish:  While both episodes feature 3 males as front players, one of the key differences is the lineup change.  As mentioned above, the involvement of Freddy suggests practiced engagement in this type of (criminal) activity.  But factoring in Satish in the events surrounding Natalee, puts a younger and unpracticed male in the middle of the action.  And that is bad.  IMO, a more "experienced perp" may have cancelled event that was planned...and indeed, a reading of the Skeeter transcripts, Deepak's statements made public, suggests that Deepak was "concerned" and he stated at one point that he knew he should have never left jvds alone w/ the girl (or words to that effect).  Common sense would tell an experienced perp that secreting away a single female w/ over 100 of her friends nearby could have a bad outcome.

4.  Vehicle Rear Seating:  The controller of victim sits w/ prize in back seat:  Freddie/Stefy w/ Alyse/Bailey VS jvds w/ Natalee.  The boys all have a specific and pre-planned role to play and their roles are facilitated by their seating choices.  The seating in rear passenger seats is significant -- the controller of victim, also bears some responsibility to male group for outcome, ie, choice of venue, return of victim(s) to place of staying and clean get-away for all.  Hence, the Mill Resort as venue for Bailey/Alyse, right next door to Wyndham, where they were staying.  But with jvds w/ Natalee, there is set up a potentially bad situation.  As we know, an immature sociopath w/ known violent tendencies is "in charge" of a likely incapcitated female who is half his size.

5.  Vehicle Front Seating: jvds vs. Satish.  This player runs the dvd porn playing in the vehicle, and has another role that is undefined.  But imo, this seating choice/assignment is important for nite's planned episode.  It suggests, imo, that after drop off (Deepak driving in both episodes), this player "assists" -- possibly as camera operator, participant, facilitator or all of this.  And indeed, the picture of loco Stefy had to come from somewhere and had to be taken by someone...and that would be jvds, imo.  It is highly likely therefore that Satish was on the scene, and that is part of the reason he has been kept quiet.

There are other "differences" as well in the 2 known episodes.  But the chain reaction which led to "something bad happening" is captured in a combination of the known differences highlighted above.

HAPPY FOURTH of JULY!!!!!

(http://pages.prodigy.net/trmorris/fireanim.gif)

(http://photo2.si.edu/inaugural/clinton2/an_fire.gif)

Happy 4th of July to our neighbours to the south!
KatGram:  Happy (belated) Canada Day to you, too!

Diario  July 4, 2006
http://www.diarioaruba.com/diamars/frontpage/index.html
Amigoe  
http://www.amigoe.com/english/

(http://www.georgerabe.com/mysite1/holidays/july4th/4thgrfx/fwmulti01.gif) (http://www.georgerabe.com/mysite1/holidays/july4th/4thgrfx/@fwall.gif)  (http://www.georgerabe.com/mysite1/holidays/july4th/4thgrfx/fwblue02.gif)

For those who have been trying to help me find out if there is any 'wieght' to the Hague Convention and the 60 day rule -- thank you so much! I am finding out more about the convention -- but not how and why it is invoked -- or if this is possible. It appears to be an option if the NY judge waits more than 60 days -- or rejects the case.

In JQK's civil filing, he is CLEARLY calling Natalee a 'minor' by Alabama statutes (even thought the conventin states 16). There are many similarities in the wording of the convention compared to the wording of JQK's civil filing.

Still hoping to run across someone with legal expertise -- I admit I have none.  :oops:

Found 2 more posts from 'Anonymous' on Michelle's blog on the subject:

Anonymous said...
We can fight back for Natalee to find her justice. The NYC Judge is trying to stall out the Civil Case. By Hague Convention protocol, after 60 days, and on July 17, JQK can call the Defendants Joran and Paulus for the depositions via the Court Clerk for reservation of the courtroom for media coverage. If the NYC Judge tries to interfere, the Civil Case can then go straight up to the Supreme Court. In other words, the Natalee case will be delivered directly into Geroge Bush's hands.
Fri Jun 30, 03:47:15 AM EDT

Anonymous said...
As the Civil Case is approaching July 17, JQK is endowed by the Hague Convention under the UN Charter Articles to execute the calling orders for Joran and Paulus to come to the Forum Publica for the depositions of a possible crime against a minor by drug raping and human traficking. JQK can legally book a conference room in NYC Supreme Court facilities which are paid for by the American taxpayers. Not even the Judge, the Mayor or the President can stop JQK from conducting a public service at the court building under the provision of the US Constitution. Joe T is deadly wrong on his Forum Non Convenience imagination.
Sun Jul 02, 06:45:45 PM EDT

One of the theorys about interrogation is to make the individual fear the consequences of NOT giveing information more then they fear Keeping the information that you seek to themselves .
  That is why the Isrilies and the Egyptions are so good ad interrogation they have no qualms about strikeing fear in to a suspect .
  I also do believe that we will soon enough find out that Paulis VDS has a whole lot Blacker heart then most of us ever suspected or thought imaginable .

Big Hammer, thank you for another one of your well thought , articulate posts. I have always read every word of your posts and they have always given me much food for thought.

Good morning and Happy 4th of July to all you monkeyfaces!!!!!



(http://bestsmileys.com/fireworks/2.gif)

Gooooooooooooodmoooorning!  i'm having my coffee and just wanted to say hi to everyone..  I guess nothing was on the news last night about the case..

Good Morning and Happy 4th of July to all!

i need a clue........anything to do with the movie warrior??  tia
happy fourth monkeys 8)

Kinda quiet in here this morning.  Everyone already cookin' de ribs?

My neighbor just invited me and the boy to walk over for ribs this afternoon.  Said he was cooking about 40 pounds of the bad boys!  I wonder if he would let me get a couple of go plates......

Easy its been quiet lately, not even Julia  the chattering Bonobo monkey on crack hasn't been on..  I been reading on a few boards and it looks like the others boards have eaten one of its own with that midrelay(sp) person..

i gotta go....i saw big case on news yesterday menbc? fox?
is some psycho killer and  :shock:
no woman is safe.....nice.

Yeah, but that was fun to watch!!!! lol

nice work....thanks....very well thought out...

Easy its too dang quiet..

Good morning and Happy Fourth of July.  Sure is quiet.  I have to get things ready to go to Atlanta tomorrow.  I will be taking my laptop, but sometimes have a hard time finding a wireless signal and staying on for long.

Everyone have a great day and happy 4th..

So, am I alone in here now?  Don't you people know you are supposed to check with me before you go out and get a real life????   :?

I am here Easy.... just popping in and out getting ready for my trip to Arkansas this week... lots to do and very little time to do it in!!!! No playing around for me today  :twisted:

Guess I will blow my own horn, since I am talking to myself. lol

Very well written! The master editorialist in you surges forward. Congratulations. It sums up the odds and ends of the case without going into unnecessary details, superfluous speculations and discardable opinions.

Have a nice 4th of July in the company of your family. God bless.

What ya gonna be doing in Clinton country?

In a few hours I am going to walk about 50 feet to my neighbor's and eat a rib.  That will be the extent of my activities today.  :D

My fourteen year old son is playing in a World Series... we will be there for a week, have rented a cabin in the woods, so will hopefully have some peace and quiet in between games.
The ribs sound yummy...eat some for Cubbee, will ya? I am eating my Lucky Charms as we speak LOL :wink:  :roll:

Yeah Easy - very cool comments regarding your work.  Way to go.  


Can you bring back a few a large TO GO boxes from your nieghbors and send it my way....Enough for a beach BBQ for say, 20?? :lol:

You missed it Sleuth... hubby just pulled out of here with 100 barbequed pork steaks for the Superdome workers.... stupid Cubbee did not even save herself a plate.... :twisted:

Congrats Easy on the great comments.

See Easy.... we DO love ya and appreciate ya!!!

Hi y'all!!!  what's up?

Everyone, have a great 4th Of July :D
We are taking the food and munchies and going to visit daughters family and see the new baby.

I am wondering if due to the fact that J does so much gambling at the various casinos, my guess is he gets offers for free rooms. We don't go to casinos all the time, but we do go often enough to occasionally get 1 or 2 nights at various casinos. If Joran gets same, he gets a hotel room and it cost him no money.

Happy 4th Mrs. Red! I am just procrastinating on the packing and preparations that need to be done.... :wink:

My baby boy is now living with me and we are turning the formal living room into a home theater.  Well, he is and I am financing it.  It keeps him busy and excited about the end result.  He has been so good for the past month that it scares me.  Maybe we have made it past some of the silly teenage BS.  Sure hope so.....

See ya later everyone. Stay safe, have fun, and have a great day :!:

Excellent comparison, Hammer....

Remember that Bailey won an essay (no kidding) on  “How Poor Decisions Can Affect Your Life.”

Sure!  Would you prefer email or FAX?  :wink:

Bye Shell have a happy 4th!

Cubbee... I know I am procrastinating myself... and hoping the fog burns off soon... I want to hit the beach!

slueth good to see you!!

You have saved yourself a plate...but those Superdome workers deserve it more than my riends at the beach..

Self-edit......(I should read it before sending..)  :wink:

You should have saved yourself a plate...but those Superdome workers deserve it more than my friends at the beach..

Nobody loves me no more.  :cry:    I have suddenly grown old and sound like a demented Elvis on the radio…..  :roll:

Easywriter wrote:

Thank you..................Thank You Very Much! :lol:

demented Elvis????  honey hush.... you seem to be doing fine...

Easy - we all love ya.   How is your cold?   The ice cube that I had swallowed has melted   :wink:

Houdini!!!!  how are you??

Hey Mrs. Red....

Happy 4th of July to you.....

Seeing as TerryD is not here to make a Starbucks rum for us, morning coffee is on me.....

http://www.littlefunny.com/ShowMovies.aspx?id=6

Gosh darn it - I WILL begin to preview before just submitting...A Starbucks run... :lol:

LOL.... I knew what you meant Sleuth. And my guys working down there are a good bunch of guys!
I will say that after feeding them for the past four months I am looking forward to a break, I pretty much have my helpers set up to carry on while I am gone.... we prepared three days of meals to be frozen yesterday and it kicked my butt.
When the lady started to tell me about the cooking acoommodations where we will be staying, I asked her where the nearest restaraunts are LOL :lol:  :lol:

By the way...the dome roof is almost completed!

GOODMORNING EVERONE
(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d118/Sanddrops/4thJuly2.gif)

That is too cute...LOL.... but from now on, I am asking terry...LOL

Good morning San!!

Mrs. Red wrote:

I'm okay Mrs. Red.

I've been re-thinking what we know, and what we "think" we know.

You know? :shock:

{edited typo} :lol:

Right?  I get so confused sometimes from what we have speculated and what is really confirmed??

Bet that was cool and refreshing the second time around! lol

Ever eat really hot food that you used to laugh about when you were a kid and find yourself screaming the next morning?  I digress....  :lol:

Mrs. Red wrote:

I just think there is a small detail that was never "followed up on", that could bust this wide open.

LOL.... I did not even see the typo until you pointed it out San! Hope you are feeling better!!!

And do you have an idea of what that detail might be Houdini?

Oh  wow Sluth  that was halarious  !!!
   I really almost did wet my self that time   ROFLMAO !!
   Ol Jerry from Ohio (who just bought a brand new Box  of Depends LOL )

TY Sluth and a happy 4th to all the monkeys  and Easy dont think old  just think fun <G>

Easywriter wrote:

Screaming while watching the paint "peel" off the walls in the bathroom?  I digest......

CubbeeGirl - you efforts for the workers over the past months are amazing..

San - Happy 4th to you as well... nice graphics.


I have a cute story....when I was living in Australia and had to work on July 4 as it was not a holiday there.   A group of my clients got together and hosted a party.  They purchased all American products (hot dogs with real ketchup, American beer @ $4 per can, etc.).   They even had a bakery make a cake decorated as the American flag....  

The problem was that the baker did not know what the US flag looked like, but remembered it had stars and stripes.. Well, the baker made a cake that had a rectangual in the upper left that was filled with stripes, and the rest of the cake had stars all over it   :lol:   My clients were so embarrased they did not want to bring the cake out, but someone that knew a cake had been ordered asked "where's the cake" so they had to bring it out anyway....It made for great pictures   :wink:

cubbeegirl wrote:

Not a bloody clue (pun intended). :lol:

But I think we can explore exactly what we KNOW happened from the time Natalee arrived at Carlos & Charlie's.  Joran's modus operandi was a preset, proven in the past, ritual.  Something changed in the procedure which led to dire consequences.   JMHO

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e82/klaasend2/JulyDuck.gif)(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e82/klaasend2/14THJULY.gif)

GOODMORNING AND HAPPY 4TH OF JULY TO ALL!!

Sleuth that is too cute!

I tend to agree..... but what could it be?

good morning Klaasend....

Forgive me if this offends anyone but I thought it was funny  :lol:  :lol:

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e82/klaasend2/usfirewrks.gif)

yes I agree with you....

Hey Monkeys....Gotta go, but everyone have a great day.

Houdini - you are right - we need to keep checking every detail.  There has to be something there somewhere..

I sure wish that Natalee's family could find resolution.......

Bye Sleuth... have a great 4th!!!

That is too funny!!! Anyway, it was the thought that counted, huh Sleuth? :wink:

For Easter we dyed 20 dozen Easter Eggs for the guys working at the Dome. I figured they were all away from their homes and families and most guys eat hard boiled eggs, right? Anyway, hubby and I went round and round and he absolutely did not want to take those eggs down there, he thought it was a dumb idea.
Cubbee stood her ground and made him take the eggs and he said that when they got the eggs up there on the roof they were cheering over their radios and yelling, "we have Easter Eggs". They enjoyed it alot and I think it kind of served it's purpose to bring a little bit of home to them on Easter Day. Now whenever I prepare something special that he normally would think is a little goofy, he just takes it and grins and tells me that they loved it when he comes home.

I think Hammer hit the nail on the head again in his post from this morning.  I've put his post in a separate thread:

http://www.scaredmonkeys.net/viewtopic.php?t=44

Yes I did Sluth  my screw up and one that I won't live down easiely LOL  Jerry TY  hehehe

TY Sluth and a happy 4th to all the monkeys  and Easy dont think old  just think fun <G>

Hey Jerry - did you see that we've kept your Good Morning thread going, just for you!
http://www.scaredmonkeys.net/viewtopic.php?p=3819#3819[/quote]

Cubbee.... you are so awesome!  I think it's wonderful and amazing... all you do!!!

 :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

EASYWRITER - if you get the chance, could you ask your friend about a couple of articles in today's Diario.  Looks like a taxi vandalized and a silver car vandalized.  The silver car looks an aweful lot like the one in the rock paint videos:

http://www.diarioaruba.com/diamars/local/

Thanks Mrs. Red and Sleuth.... it is the least I can do.And there are so many who are doing so much more than I could ever beging to do. It is so hard to believe that another hurricane season is here and we still have people who are living in tents. It just blows my mind. I intend to take a little break to get my son ready for HIGH SCHOOL  :shock:  :shock:  :shock:
But then I intend to find another way to make my contribution to trying to put the pieces back together....

I'm offended!  If that was a depiction of me, the star has to be much larger!

We lived our little drama
We kissed in a field of white
And stars fell on alabama last night
I can’t forget the glamour
Your eyes held a tender light
And stars fell on alabama last night

I think you do an amazing amount!!!  We keep hearing that the NE coast is going to get it this year... I would love for them to be wrong and it be a quiet season for everyone!!

 :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

I pray for that too Mrs. Red. I took one of my workers to make a delivery to New Orleans last week so that she would know the way, and then the next weekend she rode to Biloxi with her boyfriend. She is only 20 years old and the poor thing cried for 3 or 4 days afterward. I pray that we are all spared this year.

Easywriter wrote:

Twinkle, Twinkle little star
How I wonder in the car
Wish I may, Wish I might
Make my star twinkle BIG tonight

igsigs posted VDS first interview with Nancy Grace (june 2, 2005).

What I find interesting is that he mentions things like "happy island", "safety".... He's brushing off involvement of the three.  In hind site we now know that he knew the HI story was a lie, but yet he wants us to believe she was returned there.

IMO Paulus involved VDS early on as a friend, VDS tried to sell the importance of tourism to the higher ups (not a hard sell, they are used to covering crimes).  

I believe when the security guards were arrested, VDS was demoted, then later when the three were arrested (who was in charge of gathering the arrest info if VDS was removed?), VDS was reinstated.

VDS was dirty, by his own words on June 2.

http://tinyurl.com/qr785

Actually, it looks like the silver car the VDS were driving - this is the one in today's Diario:

(http://www.diarioaruba.com/diamars/local/auto%20horta.1.jpg)

VDS Car

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e82/klaasend2/pvdscar1.jpg)
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e82/klaasend2/pvdscar3.jpg)

Klaasend wrote:

Different car Klaas, notice the "back up lights" at the bottom of the tail lights in the VDS car.

Klaas

I'm no "carnut" but back light and bumper look different to me.

going to read back... and go hang out with Red!!

Ok..you guys win, lol  :lol:

edited to say:


Have a great day Monkeys... Happy 4th and don't forget our military today... they really deserve our thanks!

http://www.jacquielawson.com/viewcard.asp?code=AY45968776


God Bless America!

God Bless our Troops!

God Bless Natalee.........

And all of our Monkeys!

That's funny right there.  I don't care who you are.

Thanks, Klaas.  Happy 4th to all.  Just got done riding in the parade thru the neighborhood.  Now getting ready for cookout at the pool. I hope everyone has a fabulous day.
Smoochies!

Kalpoes!  Joran had done this many times with others, but this was his first solo flight.  He tried to recruit the usual suspects, but that failed and as he flipped through his electronic rolodex he came across Deepak the Maniac’s name, a fatal flaw in the plan and the key to answers.

Listening to the Skeeter’s tape we learn that Deepak has some very serious gender problems.  Even if we dismiss the “she did …” controversy, it becomes evident this character has some serious flaws within his psychological make-up.  Overwhelming hormonal desires tempered by a domineering Mother that has not yet dealt with her own insecurities about sexuality.

The little twerp was a time-bomb waiting to explode and Joran lit the fuse.

Easy, my hubby's quartet sings that song!  They learned it at my request.  I love it.

Okay, really going now!

Easywriter says:
Listening to the Skeeter’s tape we learn that Deepak has some very serious gender problems. Even if we dismiss the “she did …” controversy, it becomes evident this character has some serious flaws within his psychological make-up. Overwhelming hormonal desires tempered by a domineering Mother that has not yet dealt with her own insecurities about sexuality.

The little twerp was a time-bomb waiting to explode and Joran lit the fuse.



Or...birds of a feather flock together.  Joran called them best friends in the CA piece.  Deepak calls them brothers in the other section of Skeeters' tape.  I don't believe it's just Deepak.  All of them have that attitude about American girls.

Jerry!  "Big people lie too..." lol

Hey this is the internet, we can be King Dong, if we like.  Don't sell yourself short. lol

God Bless America!

Good morning and Happy 4th of July.

Enjoy your day, everyone.

Gonna go get some work done for real... the laundry and packing fairies have failed to arrive!!

Have a great 4th everyone!!!

Beautiful card Jacqueline, thanks.

Good morning monkeys!!

Just peekin in to say

(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b358/mishyp/fireworks4pu.gif)

2NJSons_Mom, I'm thinking about your family, particularly your father...Praying for your strength!!

 :lol: Enjoy the day!

That was beautiful!  

Klaas:  How can I get to the latest Bondia?  I registered for their forum but I cannot find where to go to read the latest issue.

Happy 4th to all you monkey people!

I checked Bondia this morning and the lastest issue online is June 30th.  I always just go to www.bondia.com .

.

Good Morning and Happy Fourth of July to all the U.S. Monkeys!  Others feel free to join us in our celebration.


When I opened up the smoker to put on the ribs, there was a huge wasps' nest inside!  Yikes, almost dropped ribs!  Excitement already!   :roll:


Great compilation by The Big Hammer!  Sharon still hard at work on the Hague Convention.  

I wonder if the poster Anonymous has a good grasp of Our System, however as he wrote this:

Anonymous said...
We can fight back for Natalee to find her justice. The NYC Judge is trying to stall out the Civil Case. By Hague Convention protocol, after 60 days, and on July 17, JQK can call the Defendants Joran and Paulus for the depositions via the Court Clerk for reservation of the courtroom for media coverage. If the NYC Judge tries to interfere, the Civil Case can then go straight up to the Supreme Court. In other words, the Natalee case will be delivered directly into Geroge Bush's hands.
Fri Jun 30, 03:47:15 AM EDT

The Supreme Court is far and away from Bush's hands.  Guess Anon missed their ruling against him last week on military tribunals.  The Supremes are majority liberal, the opposition, appointed for life and
nothing Bush can do with them at all.  

For that reason, I would hate to see this case delivered up to them.  They have become highly unpredictable and tend to write law instead  of interpret it.  Also some of the more leftist of them have even cited European law and that we need to be more in line with that thinking, something I find totally abhorrent.  Let's hope the NY judge agrees to hear the case and it does not come to any of this as I don't think it is
going to be all that helpful.  For one thing, I fear they will not count
Natalee as a minor as the legal age for consent in Netherlands seems to
be shockingly low or at least it was until recently.   If the Supremes should prove to be in one of their Europhile moods for this, no telling  how they could rule.   :roll:

.

.

Going to be lurking and watching ribs. . . . . . . .

Thanks Easy your pretty darn funny too.
like that sense of Humor LOL The world sometimes needs a lot more of it !
               Jer <G>

Me thinkest my pooter has cooties!

Maybe Deepak and Satish liked to watch Joran and/or Freddy having sex rather than indulging in it themselves for whatever reasons.  We seem to have proof that Deepak is not opposed to viewing pornography.
If you observe the location of the windows of Joran's bachelor pad, you can see that being a voyeur (outside looking in) would not be difficult.
http://tinyurl.com/ez3rb

beth had already taught Natalee not to lie down
 quietly and be a victim??
i thank my mom for teaching me the same...
even if some call it "having an attitude"
 :shock:

Whenever I read about the Shango posts I always hear the word maze.  The Van der Sloot residence looks like a maze.  JMO.

and maybe freddy..living so close...liked to video thru window??
just a thought.

i think freddy must have some connections to get a "free pass"

Just for the heck of it I captured Joran's pad and the Dana truck for enlargements:

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e82/klaasend2/JoransPad.jpg)
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e82/klaasend2/danatruckvds2.jpg)

While Klaas is gone, let's cuss and stuff!

Did y'all hear about the two guys that walk into a bar?  One ask the other..... 8)

Kkial... how is your grandson doing?

Do we know if anyone ever spoke with those furniture/evidence pickup-delivery guys?  Might be interesting ~

Anna: Where is the cesspool on the VDS property that Granny Toad talks about?  Is the limits of their property inside the fenced- in area or do they own the vacant lots on two sides?  I cannot imagine that they could have a cesspool on such a small property.  15 years ago I owned a country house that had a cesspool off in the woods and downhill from the house.

"Dana" is not a furniture company -- it is a home delivery food company.
http://www.euronet.nl/~jerriane/index.html

He walks in with his wife and carrying duck.He says to the bartender look at this pig I have to live with.

Wife says.....that's not a pig, it's a duck.

Husband says....wasn't talking about the duck.

OUCH....

Dont flame me..... :roll:

Happy Birthday America!!

I wanted to tell Jaq and Klaas that I love their style!!!
 This is our second 4th together monkeys.  I have learned alot over the year, and one of them is that Klaas really has a thing for flashers.  Ahem, I do believe it was sweet Klaas who had Santa Klaas flashing his Christmas tree, or was that his stocking??!  :lol:

I just got back from a parade....I'm all choked up with American pride today.  This is our home sweet home and I feel blessed to be here. I'm thinking of our troops and how much they are willing to sacrifice so I can be here sitting on my butt posting to the monkeys.

I hope you all have a Wonderful Day!!!  :D  :D  :D

edited to say "thank you, wreck" for the correction ~ thought it was a furniture joint ~ changed to reflect your info  :oops:

Same to you and yours, MRS!

All the best! :lol:

 :oops: Spent some nights at the Beau Rivage secondary to going to the coast and gambling.  Not that many, but the more you go and gamble, the more rooms...etc.  It's like flier freebies.

Well said Mrs2!!!

Expect a visit from the Yaupon Prime Minister.  You will never, never walk alone.

:lol: I saw that and was thinking, is it 151? :lol:

Database on Arubian.net
  Bussiness Type Name Address City Tel Fax
DTH- meubelen en toebehoren (exl.kantoormeubelen) DANA'S WOONIDEE CASH & CARRY SHOWROOM Fergusonstraat 17-C ORANJESTAD 830912 830793  

DTH-meubelen en toebehoren (exl.kantoormeubelen) DANA'S WOONIDEE N.V. Fergusonstraat 21-a ORANJESTAD 830912
 
meubelen = furniture

Ok Monkeys... have a wonderful 4th...

ttyl!!

(http://bestsmileys.com/fireworks/4.gif)

Good news to hear, Cubbee.  Glad you have this opportunity for the world series.  We did that once in our lives.  We lost, but the trip was fun and a great experience for young men (their mom's and dad's).

Morning, Houdini.  Or afternoon, wherever you are.  

I don't know but you know, if you know, what I know or not, but I know thta you know more than I know, and what I think I know might be more than we all know, but then you know, who knows?

:lol:  :lol:  :lol:

OK now I'm gonna do my  best to spell this right
 
 Easy  you are absolutly  encouragable !!

   Jerry from Ohio LOL  :D

What about the porn video, which is aluded to in the conversation with K2.  Did Natalee realize this was not a trip back to the Holiday Inn, or did she feel that she had to get away?  Did she ask to be returned to the HI where her friends were and did she really tell them she was a lesbian, so they would cease and decist from the porno thing?  After she realized they were not going to take her back, did a fight ensue?  Did she jump from the car?

Did they hit her with the car which was not fatal in and of itself, and then she was taken around 2 a.m. to the JVDS house, where she later died secondary to lack of medical attention.

:shock:

I beg to differ.  There is also a Dana Furniture:

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e82/klaasend2/danafuriturearuba.jpg)

Front Page Post

HAPPPY 4th of July Monkeys ...

Happy Independence Day; July 4, 2006

http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/2006/07/04/happy-independence-day-july-4-2006/


On this 4th of July as we spend time with family, friends and watch firework displays; please do not forget all those that have made the ultimate sacrifice so that we could maintain our Independence.

Go take a look ... God Bless America

Hi, Jacquie.  Thinking of how wonderful it is to be free!  That freedom was provided by our troops, because some very wise men about 232 years ago, took freedom seriously and in their wisdom, wrote and signed some very wise and historical documents.

Thinking about Uncle Mike.   :oops: