Scared Monkeys Discussion Forum

You all know the rules

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e82/klaasend2/InHonorofNatalee.jpg)

Good morning Klaasend and friends.....!

Nice clean cage, I hope..... :)

Freddy's in Aruba.  Top right (in case it doesn't copy).

Klaas...so glad to see you up.

http://www.coolaruba.com/component/option,com_wrapper/Itemid,9/

Good Morning Monkeys.

Having just read the exchange between Rob and Easy on the previous pages, I would like to say that there are things behind the scenes with Rob and Easy that most of you are not aware of. Please don't let this exchange start any wars.

We ARE all here for Natalee, but sometimes people's personal feelings get involved. I am addressing this because I believe I am the woman Rob mentioned as being used and being to caring to tell anyone to F off. Rob is exactly right, in that I never have and never would tell anyone to F off. That's just not me.

Whether it's a good thing or a bad thing, it's always been easier for me to like everyone than to dislike anyone. Maybe I'm just lazy, I don't know. However, I do know that Easy and Rob are both wonderful people in their own way. If there was any way I could help them work out their differences, I would do it in a heartbeat. If either of them know anything I can do, I hope they will tell me.

What attracted me (and a lot of others to SM) was that we used to be a community of people who truly cared about one another. I think we have lost that, and that's one reason posting has waned. Does anyone know of a way that we can get back to that?

Full moon for sure, Klaas.  Harvest moon in fact.  See article I posted last night among other things.

Also here is a link to Clint VanZandt's website.  The link to LiveSecure.org has all kinds of safety information especially good is the one for travel.

http://www.threatlink.com/main.asp

Does anyone know if he was am emloyee of the FBI or was he consulted as a profiler contractually?  

The reason I want to know is would he know if the FBI can actually do anything in Aruba with or without an invitation.  Just wondering about how that would work.

.

Maybe this one??

http://www.coolaruba.com/album/displayimage.php?album=585&pos=92

One more

http://www.coolaruba.com/album/displayimage.php?album=585&pos=94

Mrs. Peacemaker here would like to say that if I ever had the misfortune to be in Aruba, I would hope to have access to a hacksaw, so that I could chop the first two fingers off every pimp on the island. Grrrr........

 :wink: Buckeye - what day?  The Paddock, October 4th??

WHEW!!!!!!!! I thought the moderator would never show up.  I have things to do today and can't monitor all of you guys for a while.  Let's try to be civil to each other...after all this place is about Natalee.  It's our job to help support the family and offer assistance in finding a resolution to this terrible mess.


Hi BT, hope you had fun across the pond. ( Did I say that right?)  :roll:

Thanks BUckeye! I've been looking for him all over Miami :lol:

Thanks for the link. I had sometime the other evening and wanted to look through current bar shots but couldn't remember any of the sites.

BT

You are a nice person.  I know you are aware of the good and bad of being that person.

Respectful means more to me then "caring" when it comes to a forum with a particular topic posted.  I've never considered this topic a support group...maybe a link to the lounge or to the Easy thread...when more indepth "support" or "caring" was and is the right link.

If I had been in a room, carrying on a conversation (or trying to) and the previous interchange errupted, I would have asked the parties to step out. The behavior is disrespectful to the guests and takes advantage of the host (who normally has enough on their plate, just hosting the party).

morning all.

new thread...new day....new hope???

Prayers for Natalee and her family

Peace.

Look at next links....you know how bad I am at the picture posting thing.

Freddy Arambatzis - Club Bahia, October 4, 2006

(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/klaasend/normal_Mal_na_Lock_2817929.jpg)

(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/klaasend/normal_Mal_na_Lock_2818029.jpg)

The one here.......

KLASS...it really is only a matter of time before he screws himself u know?

Still have some cleanup to do in the previous thread but I did remove the email addresses in Rob's post. :wink:

Hi Lalas! I did have fun, thanks. I hope you have an absolutely wonderful time at the game. :D

BTGirl,

It seems you picked up a slight English accent..

Here is psycho number two Freddy.  This is Joran's true partner in crime.

Freddy gets around........

http://www.coolaruba.com/album/displayimage.php?album=587&pos=27

.
There are a couple of Jerry "Strawberry" at the latest from Carlos and Charlie.  Some things never change.  How many times do those so-called adults have to make hand signs or flip the bird at the camera to get over themselves??  

So would this make Joran and Freddy in Aruba at the same time?

Now THAT would be interesting. . . ..

.

Buckeye,

I understand exactly what you are saying. In fact, I just told someone that always seeing every side of everything and sympathizing with everyone is probably my greatest weakness.  :? If men are from Mars and women are from Venus, I think I must be an alien from some soft, squishy planet somewhere.  :lol:

Umm its more like a southern English accent but I hear it..  How did the raccoons take care of your house while away?  I came by and I saw a few of the raccoons tattooing and piercing each other and I decided to leave..

FOM - I knew who you meant, lol  :wink:

YIKES :arrow:
KLASS U NEED A POOPER SCOOPER FOR THAT LAST THREAD :shock:

I knew the house sitter wouldn't make those raccoons behave!

You haven't heard the worst of the Southern/English thing yet - now I'm calling the car trunk the boot. :shock:

Klass....i will get treat u to  a happy meal  :lol:
u work too hard.... 8)

No, Joran went back to the NL on the 30th I believe.  This photo was taken on the 4th of Oct.  We don't know if Freddy has remained in Aruba or if he's on a college break and back in Aruba.

BTGirl, thats funny..  I'm glad your back and I know everyone else is too..  Has anyone ever tried to throw some water on Glenda?  Just curious, I think she might melt..  She does seemed to avoid houses landing on her..  So next time someone sees Glenda just throw some water on her and hopefully she will disappear (opps, I mean just go away)..  Too many seemed to disappear on that island, so maybe she will just go back into her love nest with CC..

Everyone have a great day..  Poor  Klaasend, too early in the morning for you having to cleanup..  Drink your coffee and enjoy..

td

San

I agree about Freddy...one of the "friends for life".  His family and island connections are probably what has kept him under the radar.  He cleared his tickle + sites when the other perps did.  Innocent people don't act that fast.  Only those that know they have something to hide are advised to act that fast...IMO

Klaas

Please grab this one too.

Just exactly what kind of college would Aruba have?  I mean, education isn't mandatory there and it seems to take a long time to get a high school diploma.   :roll:  ( I know I will get flamed for that comment...somewhere on another board.)

LOL @ the soft, squishy planet, BT! I love ya just the way you are! I think last night's exchange was another example of the caution to NOT BUI!

San~ YES! Freddy is Joran's #1 partner in crime.

Justin did something last night that was awful peed on the living room carpet. He told me that he did it because he was "less than enthusiastic about the move". Sometimes I think that I will not survive his childhood.  :cry:

Anita and Paulus will probably feed house and support freddy for the rest of his life as long as freddy doesn't tell all on joran...

see u monkeys later

then again....maybe freddy is porking anita :lol:

All these guys are starting to look alike and I don't think any are very attractive..  Freddy looks like Deepak, Deepak looks like Satish..  If they were in a police lineup I would be confused..  I also think the girls just look like female versions of the above..  They all have the same look, I won't say but its not nice..

Ewwwwwwwwww............................. :shock:

Aw, gee, I could have done without that particular visual in my head!  :shock:  :wink:

Ewwwwwwwwww............................. :shock:[/quote]

u know...she is such a good mamma.....lol...see u later BT et all

sorry guys...must be time for my meds...lol...have a good weekend

Freddy will never tell on Joran because Joran will tell on Freddy.  It works both ways.  I also believe that Freddy's family has connections that Paulus doesn't have.

Smoochies, Justins.

We all seem united in support for justice for Natalee and support for her family.  It's when private issues are brought into the Natalee forum that problems develop.

I have never understood that when anyone is free to start a thread in the lounge on any subject.  There are lots more posts in other areas now as well as the Front Page so I don't think posting is down any more than would be expected after this passage of time.  

When there is news like Beth's recent TV appearance in Holland, there is lots of activity.  With only one moderator, only so much she can do.  We do keep her hopping, too.   :D  But I think a support/issues/friendship thread might be a good idea for those seeking that.  Just doesn't work well in the Natalee forum.  Never has, never willl.

JMO.

.

Terry,
I think  some of the females are attractive but I don't see many males who are at all.  Eeeeeewwwww!  Why are the pretty girls wasting their time on those losers???

And aren't they all getting just a bit old for that hand sign business.  I mean really!!  What level of intellect is that reflecting after doing the same thing a thousand times for the camera.  Maybe it was funny or something the first 500 times. . . . . ..

Hi Anna!  How's the sunshine up north?  :lol:

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They can give 6 months to a drunken passenger....!  Maybe they should look at what to give for kidnapping.....

If they need to "make an example" of someone....I have a few names...

Absolutely dazzling, Lala's!  And I am going to make the most of it today, lots of outside activity planned as long as the UV count stays down a little.

The sun is shining, birds are singing and I am going to dig up peony trees and move them to a better location.  Hope I don't kill them in the process.   :shock:

Say, that last photo of Freddie, the girl looks far less than thrilled!  I would love to be a great big guy and go there and smash their fingers when they start with that juvenile hand sign crap!

.

Good manners.....Aruba....all in one sentence....look out!  The sky is falling, the sky is falling!  Where is that barfing monkey? :roll:

Is it like Idaho ?

(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/klaasend/idahoSIS.jpg)

I have yet to see one single photo of any of the men on Aruba that makes me swoon....then again I am an old lady...but I have asked my own daughter if she thinks they are the least bit handsome and most of the time she just gags...the only one was maybe the Cromvoit kid.  She did notice him once...but only once.  :lol:

Ummmmmm......they look like brother and sister....eek

Right,
Drugging and kidnapping considered normal but can't have any drunk and rowdy tourists, that's for the locals, right?

So Aruba wants to alienate their last source of tourists??  Sort of makes ya wonder if they really want any or not!

.

How are you doing Leslie ?
I was reading back and that was really all so horrible.
I wasn't here, I had signed off.
When he gets like that, I just stay away because I can't take it when he starts to be rude and abusive to anyone.
I think it is a situation beyond our control and some people have issues and baggage.

I agree.

I tend to agree...GVC is hot'.....and I am 50, lol. Guidooooo the gay bud looks hot too...(usually that is the way...) in my personal opinion. I guess HOT is NOT what we are looking for here. I sure do hope something will transpire soon to get this investigation on the move again. I keep going over old info hoping for a new clue, but I see no new clue. I still say answers lie with the peeps last seen with Natalee. No one vanishes off the face of the earth with no clue.....I understand that many clues were lost, disregarded....etc., that I know...BUT---SOMEONE out there knows something.

KatGram,
We ALL have issues and baggage.   :(

They have nothing to do with Natalee Holloway, however.  I would gladly start and issues and baggage thread in the lounge if I thought it would do any good.  We could all go there and gripe and moan and carry on but no one ever seems to want to do that.  Odd.

.

Let's do that Anna... I could do 50 pages in a NY minute ! !
In fact, if I wasn't in such a good mood and had to finish up the prepartion for TGiving, I would do that right now. :o  :o  :o
 :o  :o  :o  :o  :o
I had a perfect day in the kitchen yesterday. No burns, no disastrs. Must be because I took the day off and wasn't in a big rush.
Take care guys.

Morning everyone!
Klass I sent you mail.. to the C and G one. didnt know which?  lol
TY!!!!

I am listening to Sirius radio. They have a segment where the guy is
anaylzing the 12 grains in a Tim Horton's bagel. In a serious fashion.
I have no idea why this C^&p is on the radio and someone like Dana
doesn't get picked up.

Got it Angie - was busy taking care of the problem and didn't see your email until after it was already fixed.  :wink:

  TY .. and I responded back a minute ago~!!  TY much!!!

Kat_Gram:  Happy Thanksgiving to you!  I like holidays that don't involve buying presents.  It is one of those beautiful sunny fall days and the perfect temperature to rake leaves and bring in all the outdoorsy stuff.  
I just adopted a black and white cat who was living in my backyard. It took me over a month to get him to trust me and me to trust him enough to bring him into the house.  My little dog and my declawed cat had been watching him out the window for weeks, so he was no stranger to them. I brought him inside on a rainy, windy, cold night and named him Stormy.  
One big happy family.  Life is good.

Yes, I feel that way too.
I was in your neck of the woods a few years ago at this time of year.
It was beautiful. The red maple leaves. We were ( from work ) at that resort, St. Saveur ? sp. I had a chalet to myself. Well, we all had private
rooms, but I got a chalet. It certainly was beautiful. Old Quebec village feel. They just spoiled us all. Happy times with your stormy !  !

Just a quick drive-by from Bama, hope all is well and just didn't want klaas or San or Angie to send out the cavalry worrying  :D

Off to go roll with some tide !!!!!

take care all and I'll check in tomorrow while I"m cooking all day to fill up son's freezer in the bachelor kitchen  :?

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a360/AnnaBlueSkies/334n7sh_th.jpg)  Happy Thanksgiving to All Our Canadian Posters!

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a360/AnnaBlueSkies/2cp6xe1_th.jpg)

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Hi Nonesuch - great to see you posting today!

Thank you for checking in with us an letting us know you are OK.  Have fun cooking :lol: .

MsMarple,
I am leaving it entirely to your discretion as to what to include in the Murder and Crime Thread at this point.

Had we known Aruba was such an unlucky island, we could have added a section for fatal and near fatal accidents mishaps and unexplained deaths.
And maybe even one for "drownings" as even for an island, there seem to be too many of those.

To claim to be such a happy place, there seems to be too much just plain bad luck.  Remember the couple killed in the four-wheeler accident earlier this year, too?  Then the woman who fell Sunfreak posted about yesterday, Robert Benson and now these two drownings along with the two from last weekend.

One could seriously wander upon a body on a beach just at any time, not my idea of a Kodak moment!

.

Done, Kat Gram!  And I only had time to post one quickie about these field mice with whom I am embattled.  Tonight when I return, I have a thing or two to say about kids bashing my mailbox all the time, too.  And mail taking seven days to go forty miles for starters before I take on major issues like sibling rivalry, etc.

.

Is my Nonesie in BAMA?????

Ya'll are so funny!!

Actually I really doubt any of those folks are actually attending 'college'.

That word seems to  really get used alot for those low lifes and I think it's just some kind of joke.

FYI, the other night when I met Jug, he told me he reads at SM all the time...I was thinking about certain incidences that have come up and was like  :oops:  :oops:  :oops:

Mishy,
It is so true what you just posted.  When I first started coming online to read about the NH case, I settled on this site because it usually was so credible and had little BS compared to some of the other sites.  I come on daily to read the latest developments and theories, but many times do not log in if I have no plans on posting.  Unfortunately, I just feel I have little to post about unless there is a discussion going on about some new developments or ones that are being revisited.

I feel sad, as well as annoyed when I come on and people are posting about other things that appear to be just bantering back and forth.  I also have little time to go through pages of nonsense.  There are other places for that on this site.

It's true, we don't always know who is visiting this site and want to keep it credible.

I'm sure Beth, Jug and Dave realize that forums are made up of a mix of people.  We cannot control their moods or maturity levels.  After what they have been through I'm sure they've seen it all, IMO.

Beth and Jug, Dave and Robin have been through something these last 17 months that none of us ever want to go through.  They have my respect and my support.

Yup that is him, I guess he isnt in college here because there not close to getting a break yet in US

Morning All  When kids such as these live on an island and are relagated to mostly socializeing with such a small group they often are socially regressed if not bye assc ociation just bye there being in such a somewhat closed socitey group .
  It is quite obvious that many of the kids that we see in these pictures
makeing all the same old hand gestures haven't realized yet that the times have again moved on and that this is no longer the accepted  way that the kids today are doing things  yes a few still are but in general kids have dropped that type of thing ifthey want to be considered modern and up to the minute in stuff  sorry to say the kkids of Aruba are about 5 to 10 years behind the times .
  Hope are haveing a great Saturday   Jerry from Ohio

And aren't they all getting just a bit old for that hand sign business.  I mean really!!  What level of intellect is that reflecting after doing the same thing a thousand times for the camera.  Maybe it was funny or something the first 500 times. . . . . ..[/quote]

Anna & All the Monkeys - Oh Noooo! Don't leave it up to me! For one thing, it's just like any other thread, and I say anything that seems "odd" ought to be there, and whatever monkey thinks it's odd ought to post it on M&C.

(I'm especially thinking of the Diario article about previously-ruled "suicides" on Aruba getting a second look - in Holland.)

And all those "jumpers."

Another thing, I might miss something. I can't say I manage to read every page of every thread.

I will say that I have tried to keep the focus on violent crime.

We should be looking into the numbers on drownings and suicides. I think some of the "natural causes" and "overdoses" might be suspicious, but I don't know how we can track that from here.

Maybe a "Cause of Death" thread?

* From those pics from Bahia Cafe it looks to me like the kids are getting away from the PIMP hand signal....

* It also looks to me that Freddy may be cleaning up his act...or at least for that night.

* There are a couple of pics of Jerry Strawberry holding a "business card"...I wonder what that's about..... :?:

be careful, running can be dangerous

i suggest you take a car  8)  8)  8)  :wink:




 :twisted:

www.REWARDFORMISSINGSHOES.COM 8)  8)  8)  :lol:  :lol:

I have a lot of respect for Klaasend because I have joined two clubs and its really hard to give everyone what they want in the club.. Some people want a social club others want to play serious tennis or biking.. If you become too restrictive then the club hurts and people lose interest.. I hate to see it become too restrictive because when you need the support of the people that you run off then you have none except a few..  I find a lot of the people on this forum very interesting and sometimes I like to read whats going on in their lives.. I don't think I have ever met anyone like Tylergal or Nonesuche so when I see post from them, I read them and enjoy them.. Anyway if we want a small dedicated group only working on the case, then it might disappear because most of the stuff we are chasing now has been chased before and without some kind of feed(news) coming in then it will become harder to maintain your drive to rethink old paths that lead in a circle.. So I hope we stay flexible and stop trying to be so restrictive..  When someone goes off subject and I have no interest, just logoff and come back a few hours later and the thread will of changed..  

I always come here in hope that I will read where someone has told the truth but its been 16 months and I think the longer it goes on the less chance for that to happen.. Kinda like getting used to or making yourself believe that what happen didn't happen.. Also people that were involved will move and it will be hard to find all the players, players_helpers in the long run..  Our biggest chance of finding out what happen is from these three kids but I don't see that happening.. They are mad and I almost think they like teasing Natalee's family with showing their contemp against them and most of us that support Natalee's family.. Well everyone have a good day..

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Do we know which of those two large buildings is the main house, and what is the other one?  A guest house maybe?

I'd like to know whether the computer and Val's room are in the same building, re: my theory that Joran was using the computer while he waited for Val to go to sleep, before sneaking back out to the beach.

http://www.diario-aruba.com/2006/10/7/
Another body, this one in MOKO I think.

(http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h294/gummy_2006/anotherbody.jpg)

Shizaru - this is my understanding of the layout.  The computer would be in (1) the main room, dining and family room.  I'm not so sure there wasn't more than one computer in that house though:



(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/klaasend/VDShcopy.jpg)

Yes Hotshot.  I think it was an 81yr old man.

What is this another suicide?

Hi guys. Just passing time until Nonsey gets here.  What are you guys up to anyway?

I don't know what the cards are but he is holding the camera at Carlos and Charlies.  A real regular.  And no one has noticed his strange resemblance to the attempted rapist at the beach?

.

.

OK, MsMarple,
I will add a few things to that thread but I am not sure what is murder and crime and what isn't in some instances.

Like the woman who fell twelve floors--what the heck is that?

Guess better to add suspicious deaths than not?

.

I have always wondered how long Joran had been living in his own apartment.  Anyone?

Probably since birth.  He was so ugly they couldn't stand having him in the same room  :wink:

Natural causes :wink:

Thanks Robots!  Took your advise!

Since he was 15 Joran had here, beside the swimming pool and at a reasonable distance of the parental house, his own bedroom and bathroom.
It makes more sense for the middle building to be the living quarters and the far building the sleeping quarters.

.
Well, Terry, I don't think there is any danger of us being too on-topic and restrictive.  And it does cost us some of our better posters who just don't have time to wade through the banter.  Tyler would be one of those who just won't take that time always but most of the old Codetalkers as well have no patience for it.  Some of them have forgotten more than I know about this investigation so it is a high price to pay.

No one is saying there are things that can't be discussed, just that we might want to discuss them in another thread.
And I am going right now to check if you bothered to read the not one but two messages I left for you in your own thread.

.

well, it makes you wonder why they would give a teenager their own room or apartment as it is called. I could understand it if he was older and had moved back home or something.  Maybe.... :roll:

My guess is that Valentine has now taken Joran's apartment.  I could be wrong.

So when Joran comes home (runs home) for a visit, where does he sleep?  Does he pull a Koen and stay with mommy and daddy?  Oh I shouldn't have said that should I?  :roll:

Have you received any responses?   :D

Every time I start to post something, I will remember that Jug reads here.
It seems that Joran has had his own apt. since he was 15 according to the article "Joran is a Delicious Youth".  
Jerry, the ?? year old virgin, really does have the surname Strawberry?
Anna:  :lol: You have a way with those subtle zingers.  :lol:

Except for the space, it would.  If you look at the view of the Sloots and Freddie eating at the dining table, there is not room for that much open space in the smaller square building.

That is such an odd layout anyway.  The main living quarters looks like some sort of storefront or warehouse or commercial building, nothing at all like a normal residence.

But then what am I thinking. . . .

The long building is where the dining area is and the family room.  There is also a daybed right in the dining area:

(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/klaasend/vdsdinner.jpg)

(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/klaasend/vdsdinner2.jpg)

no, but the reward is over 1000.00


950.00 is my own money but i did get 3 other donations  8)

Well, see you guys later, much later tonight.  Keep things together  for us Anna, you can be hall monitor until my return.  don't anyone take Shango's name in vain.  :roll:

i was just teasing ya
 8)  :wink:

I don't know if that is his real surname or not, Leslie.  I read it at BFN one day and Klaas said she thought it was his real name.  Funny, huh?   :lol:
Traces of cannibalism through their banter if you ask me.   :roll:

Guess they will say that last corpse lying around was natural causes because the man was over eighty.  Tell that to my mother who is pushing ninety.  And some days feels better than I do.. . . . . . .

 :twisted:  :twisted:  :lol:  :lol:

When we went to the Dominican Republic we toured to designated homes of native people.  The main house had railroad rooms.  Through front door enter into sitting room off of which to left & right were two small bedrooms.  The  cooking area was outside beyond the back door and the eating area to the right.  

When my SIL and I went to Morocco, the resort's dining hall, where the buffets were served was separate, and many dishes were cooked outside, as well.  

Just wondering how the split living sections evolved....our sons live in an apt we made out of a detached garage on our property.  It started out being planned as a room and snowballed into more...eating up a small patio area, as well.  This was done while they were in college.

If the sleeping quarter's for the VDS family, are in the building closest to the gate, then it really is strange that it would take PVDS so long to appear on May 31, 2005,  while the police were honking horns and waking up the neighbours.

Oh, boy!  Did ya'll see that?  I am sharpening all the pencils I own right now just in case!

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I'm all ready but first I have to go and (http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a360/AnnaBlueSkies/c4fc1306.gif)some more as I continue to find forensic evidence of those mice!  ALE could learn a thing or two from me today as I do this.  On the third load of sheets and towels in the laundry, too.  They had better not come back is all I can tell the mice!   :evil:

 :(

 :lol:  :lol:

I agree.  If someone is honking the horn in the middle of the night in front of my house I get out of bed to see who it is.  My house is very long.  My room is in the back of house and I would hear it.  I will never believe Paulus was sleeping.  The horn would sound even louder in the night because you wouldn't have the busy traffic like you have during the day.

He wasn't asleep.  And Deepak's car was just there first time CCroes went by, member?  I'd say he was frantically destroying evidence.  What he did not send away in the car with Deepak and Joran, that is.

.

VDS home photos from Bonsai:


(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/klaasend/SMVanderSloothome-1.jpg)

(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/klaasend/SMVDSProperty1.jpg)

(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/klaasend/SMVDSProperty2.jpg)

(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/klaasend/SMVDSProperty3.jpg)

Another view:

(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/klaasend/vdshome.jpg)

The last photo, aerial view....where is the road...looks like grass to me....my memory needs refreshing.

The road is actually on the side closer to Joran's apartment.

(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/klaasend/vdshomelg.jpg)

(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/klaasend/vdsmoving-1.jpg)

(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b223/NYSusan/VanderSlootsBackyard.jpg)

View from the rear:

On left the neighbor's monkey cage
On right: A fence & gate going to pool area

I never understood why Deepak would park inside the locked gates...& also why there are separate buildings to the residence....

Jerry Strawberry is also known as Cheremy Croes, which I believe is his birth name.  Since he is often seen with Steve Croes in the Aruban clubs, I wonder if he is related in some way to him??

A few observations about the VDS compound; Jorans' apt looks like it is about a third of the size of the rest of the family's sleeping quarters.
Their cesspool must be outside the fenced in the area between Joran's apt and the main house.   I would not want to live there because I would sick and tired of carrying groceries from the car, past the pool and into the main quarters.  
Anna:  I do not believe Paul was "deep asleep" as Anita said he was.  I think he had been tipped off by Charles Croes "major friend" and told the boys to leave and that he would handle everything.  I think he then went to the well stocked VDS bar and knocked back a couple.

Could you add the gate to this map, so it's clear where the road is?

The gate would be under the word HOUSE in the picture.

I haven't found the name of Croes with Jerry/Cheremy, but his real first name does appear to be Cheremy.  From Steve Croes Zorpia site he lists him as Jerry Strawberry:

(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/klaasend/SteveJerry.jpg)

http://www.zorpia.com/djdiablo669/album/415038

Thanks Leslie - that what I was thinking as well.

Sorry, I wasn't clear.. I meant could you mark the location of the gate?  I am adding this photo to the TL

In the aerial view of the VDS House where the buildings are numbered 1,2,3-what is that at the bottom of the screen beside the word image? (The credits for the picture)  Could that be their cesspool cover?

I think  :wink:

(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/klaasend/VDSh3.jpg)

I believe that's not even on their property.  Their cesspool cover would be on their property.

People seem to drive just anywhere they want to, doesn't have to be designated as a road.

Yes, anything could be taken out the back, side, etc. with people even at the gate.  That is what has always bothered me about the bogus stalling.  That view of the wrong side of the main residence looks more like a normal approach to a house.

.jmo

Thanks Klaas & Leslie, figured that it had to be there, after asking...but knew I had known this long ago and got a little confused. :wink:

I see that Steve Croes and Strawberry look a lot of like if you took Strawberries little mustash and glasses and put them on Steve.  Their noses, ears, color, eyes look the same to me..  They are girl magnets for sure..

Klaas:  I just emailed you another pic of the VDS gate.  The cesspool could not be under concrete. I cannot believe that the entire VDS property is within the confines of the fenced in section with all the buildings hugging the property line.

Didn't Steve Croes have a step brother who died during the last year?  His mother's son possibly by another marriage?

I wonder how many of them there are who look like this because there is that Quincey as well.   :shock:

My guess for cesspool location is under the "o" in house near the fence.  See the metal cover?

Someone just emailed me this (thank you).  Good view of the VDS gate:

(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/klaasend/vdsgate.jpg)

Klaas:  Did you get my email, weeks ago, with my best attempt at photoshopping the VDS clan as the Pirates of the Carribean?

Ah, you are the sender of the picture, lol  :lol:   Thanks!

Red was there with TES searching the neighbors cesspool.  I would think that if the VDS cesspool was that far from their property line TES would have searched it as well.  I could be wrong.

I don't remember it??

Found it, LOLOL  :lol:  :lol:

(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/klaasend/VDSPiratesOfTheCaribbean1.jpg)

Especially After Joran States That .............

That My Friends ALWAYS Park Outside ..............

 :roll:

Re: the cesspool:  Maybe I just don't understand their sewage system!

Klassend

Could you mark (1) Main house (2) sleeping quarters) (3) apt  on this photo?

(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/klaasend/vdshome.jpg)

Well, don't know what to tell you on that one.  Granny Toad could explain.  Think rather deep well sealed off by several, I would estimate 6-8 inches of lipids.  Sort of like the wax on top of some jellies and jams?  Pipes enter under the lipid seal for odor containment.

Notice - Tom has set up a special sub-forum for Dana Pretzer.  That way we can keep all his show information in one place.  I've added the link to my signature line:

http://www.scaredmonkeys.net/viewtopic.php?t=410

I noticed that earlier :wink:

Shizaru - hate to ask this question, but is this OK?  Or do you need it to match the other one with the (1), (2), (3)??

(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/klaasend/vdshome1.jpg)

No, that's fine, thanks!  Sorry about being so particular.

Shizaru - no problem.   :lol:

So is Clint suppose to talk about the case or are you guys just going to
hit him with questions??

I imagine he'll talk about alot of cases including the NH case.  Always good to be ready with some questions!

Ok please tell me who builds houses like that where the sleeping area is apart from main house .. they must have been just adding on over years

Match box house.  What a dump.

In large antebellum houses in the South, the kitchen used to sometimes be built separate from the rest of the house in case of fire.  Maybe they were afraid Joran would burn down the house or something.

 :roll:

Well said, Klaas!! I'm still proud to be a monkey!! We've always had some of the best minds out there!!!

Nah they just don't want Joran in the house at all.

ROFLMFAO

When I look at the VDS compound, I get a feeling of claustrophobia and wonder what the views looking away from it are.  I don't find Aruba very attractive at all.

Well I always wonder what people say when they leave there.

1. Probably thank god we got out alive.
2. What a POS place.

Also, When the pool needs more water they put Paulus in the middle and show him a picture of Beth make him sweat to fill it up.

(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/klaasend/bendex3-1.jpg)

Seriously, I wouldn't want him coming home drunk at all hours waking the younger kids and setting that example for them.  Especially after having Paulus for a father. . . . . . :roll:

And they really don't waste any money with any of the mowing and trimming of weeds nonsense, either I see.

.
Klaas,
Are we supposed to leave Dana's thread nice and clean or go over there and post all our questions?

Better have instructions before somebody  :shock: trots over and makes a few posts if we are not supposed to post there.  Or lock it or something?

I created a thread already for questions for Clint van Zandt.  I would put all questions for Clint there.

If you have a specific question for Dana you can create a new thread in that forum.

I'll keep the shows stickied at the top.

Klass,

Here's a link to Cheremy Croes tickle site...

http://connect.tickle.com/profile/index.html?id=spbzq9-WJR3kc.lz

OT~ Sorry

NONE AND LALA update!
Just got a call from the girls.. it was HARD to hear them cause its half time and the band is playing! They both sound like they are having the time of their lives. None needed a good night out and I am glad lalas is there with her!!  (lalas left her pencils behind :)
I am suppose to hug Nemo.. so HUGS to Nemo!
None will call me later or tomorrow when its more quiet..lol
It was great to hear lalas on the phone.. shes precious as is None.
God love'em!

Um eweee.. yucky pic of Steve Croes and the Jerry Strawberry ..
Their facial expressions.. they could pass for twins damn near. Eeeek!

Jerry looks like a frog.  Come to think of it so does Karin Janssen.

 ROFL  SAN! You crack me up!! Where is your sidekick Widget?? ROFL

So glad she's got a good buddy with her!! I hope the Tide does better than the Tigers did today...

Pita - thanks I think, lol  He's one strange looking fellow  :wink:

Cheremy Croes = Jerry Strawberry

(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/klaasend/cheremycroes.jpg)

 hey Mishy chicky! SO far they are loosing. Not by much though. So hopefully after half time .. things change! He cool for None and Lalas to be there together and Bama kicks butt!!  :)

  YIKES. What a freak. Im glad I havnt eaten yet.
The ore I see of him.. the more he looks like that sketch. IMO at least!

He is pretty rancid, isn't he? Nice pose there, Strawberry!!

Howzit going Ang? That would RULE if Bama won while the sistahs are togethah  :lol:  :lol:

Klass, you're very welcome!!   :)

 I hope they win!!! But if not.. I stil lthink they are having a blast!

Rancid is right Mishy.. Eweeeeeeeeee.. YUCKY

Some TL corrections & additions made re: early family/ALE interaction and search efforts (a weird detail from the VF article, the source for VDStraaten saying they should go look for Natalee at CnCs on Ladies Night was... Julia Renfro?):

MAY 31

8:15 am: Detective Dennis Jacobs arrives at HI, takes down Natalee's description, and takes Beth to Noord polis station.  Beth sits in the lobby for three hours until Jacobs tells her she won't be needed (Vanity Fair)

June 1: Dave Holloway arrives on Aruba.  The first two polis stations he visits are unaware of Natalee's disappearance.  At the Noord station, Jacobs tells him that she probably got drunk or fell in love and ran off for a few days.  Jacobs advises Dave to go relax and have a beer at CnCs, that is the best place to look for her (Family's Nov 1 letter, Dave's book)    

June 1: Beth and Jug arrive at Noord police station to file missing persons report, are made to wait while Jacobs shaves and finishes his Frosted Flakes (Vanity Fair)
 
June 1: As Beth gives her statement to polis, Aruba Today editor Julia Renfro organizes first volunteer search teams in lobby of the HI, which consist mostly of tourists.  Polis Chief Jan Van der Straaten is not in favor of the effort and speaks to the group, telling them not to cause any traffic problems.  He tells Renfro she should just go to CnCs that night, because it is Ladies Night and Natalee will probably show up there (Vanity Fair)

Cheremy Croes=Jerry Strawberry....Steve Croes best friend

He sure looks like the description of the "beach stalker"

The woman gave a description to ALE
Days/weeks later, Dave Holloway is there & sees the same vehicle, guy & is able to get a license plate number & gives it to ALE.....
Has ALE been able to track down this stalker?

My question: Is there a description of this car anywhere?

I'd appreciate it if someone can find the tscript of the interview where Jug says he overheard polis using the word "puta"... I think it was on Nancy Grace but I can't find it

Shiz,
I thought this is when Dennis Jacobs warned Dave to watch his drink at C&C?  Isn't that in the book as well??

 :shock:

Yes that's in the cook too, and it was in the same June 1 meeting

Edit: cook=book

OMG, are you serious? This escaped me somehow...that's so disgusting  and disrespectful!! :shock:  :shock:  :shock:

Found it:

GRACE: "I haven`t had my Frosted Flakes?" Did I just hear that?

J. TWITTY: Yes.

GRACE: Hold on, hold on, let me just check this earpiece for a minute.

The mother of a missing girl says, "I need to speak to you right now," and the chief of police says, "I`ve got to have my Frosted Flakes."

J. TWITTY: That`s just one small thing that he said that was very disturbing to me because, you know, I sat back there with Beth when he was talking to her, and some of the things were so sickening to me that he was talking about, and I`ll just say it, because I had to explain -- he was talking about putas and things, and I had to explain to her what that meant.

GRACE: You mean he said the word bitch? The chief of police did? Is that who we`re still talking about?

J. TWITTY: They were just using language like this when we were sitting in there and she was trying to give her statements and stuff, and joking about it and everything. The whole thing was like it was a joke, like she`s going to show up. She`s drunk, she`ll come in -- you know, don`t worry about it.

Edit: cook=book[/quote]


Well, I think it was the most important thing Dennis Jacobs said because he is admitting he knows this happens all the time and he is head of drugs, etc. the one who should be doing something about it.  He is rubbing it in to Dave what likely happened to Natalee.

So aren't you going to put it in the timeline??  The part about telling Dave to watch his drinks as they put drugs in them at C&C??  That's the main thing about what he said.   :?

Humm, just saw a 'Visit Aruba' commercial on AMC, complete with aruda.com web address.

Well, I think it was the most important thing Dennis Jacobs said because he is admitting he knows this happens all the time and he is head of drugs, etc. the one who should be doing something about it.  He is rubbing it in to Dave what likely happened to Natalee.

So aren't you going to put it in the timeline??  The part about telling Dave to watch his drinks as they put drugs in them at C&C??  That's the main thing about what he said.   :?[/quote]

OK... to tell the truth I left it out because you know how on RU they mock Dave over that that line, the idea that anyone would want to date rape a 45 year old man... and it does seem kind of silly... but I gues that is what Jacobs could have meant

There are other reasons to drug someone other than sexual ones.  Robbery comes to mind.

Shizaru,
Are you looking for the NG transcript that has the following passage:

GRACE: Hold on, hold on, let me just check this earpiece for a minute.

The mother of a missing girl says, "I need to speak to you right now," and the chief of police says, "I`ve got to have my Frosted Flakes."

J. TWITTY: That`s just one small thing that he said that was very disturbing to me because, you know, I sat back there with Beth when he was talking to her, and some of the things were so sickening to me that he was talking about, and I`ll just say it, because I had to explain -- he was talking about putas and things, and I had to explain to her what that meant.

GRACE: You mean he said the word bitch? The chief of police did? Is that who we`re still talking about?

J. TWITTY: They were just using language like this when we were sitting in there and she was trying to give her statements and stuff, and joking about it and everything. The whole thing was like it was a joke, like she`s going to show up. She`s drunk, she`ll come in -- you know, don`t worry about it.

GRACE: Is that the way you remember it, Beth?

B. TWITTY: Oh, yeah, Nancy.

GRACE: Did you understand, I know they were speaking a different language partially at that time -- did you understand what they were saying?

B. TWITTY: I understood everything they were saying, Nancy.

GRACE: Who exactly is the bitch in this scenario?

J. TWITTY: He was using language like that, you know, just graphic language like that, jokingly, and, you know, like what goes on in Aruba, this happens and this happens, and, you know, just some of the words he was using, to me, it was sickening to me to have to sit here.

GRACE: When your girl is missing.

J. TWITTY: Right.

GRACE: You`re at their mercy.

J. TWITTY: We were at their mercy, and I am sitting there saying, these guys are on our side. I have to sit here and listen to this to try to get an answer.

----------

Do you want me to email you the whole transcript?

.

Here's a better shot for getting the feel of the neighborhood.  :wink:

(http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h291/SunFreak2/GooglevdSneighborhoodII.jpg)

Excellent point Leslie!  :wink:

Sunfreaks - any luck finding a home closer to the Sloots that could be Freddys?

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0510/03/ng.01.html

The forum ate my post!!

The Smith man who disappeared on the cruise ship had been drugged likely with absinthe when he vanished.  Men are usually drugged for the purpose of robbing them.  Only RU is sick enough to think of date raping Dave Holloway.   :evil: Talk about minds in the gutter!  Good Grief!

But it is very important for it is not even about drugging Dave but it is Dennis Jacobs rubbing it in to Dave what happened to his daughter.  Very cruel and callous manner to do it, too.

That is a good point.  However that isn't what immediately comes to mind when you think of a drink being drugged in a bar... so when most people just hear Dave relate that detail I think there is typically a "huh?" reaction, that distracts from the impact of the rest of the Jacobs story.  That's why I left it out, I thought it was a minor detail that seems silly if you don't think about it, and just confuses things.

Not only are men drugged for the purpose of robbing them, they are drugged so that women who are with them are vulnerable.   :evil:
You've been reading too much at RU, Shiz!  Men are drugged more often than you would think and it's not usually for date raping them.

There was, however, the online Diary of the two guys and one had to fight off a homosexual cab driver who drugged his friend.  He was trying to drive away with the friend in his cab drugged, etc.

But I think it is important to put what Jacobs said.  He was most cruelly telling Dave what happened to his daughter, not warning Dave about anything at all.

Your timeline, however.

http://ikeepadiary.com/diary/2004/01_22_aruba_vacation/part_5/frame_index.html

I haven't looked yet.  Was busy grooming & showing dogs today.  I've got the program up and running and will search now.  I'm glad they updated on a clear day - no clouds over Noord/Montana.

I also made new route maps for Shizaru's TL showing the corrected location of the vdS house.

I will put it in.

One of my male cousins was drugged & robbed when he was staying in a hotel.  The woman slipped him a "mickey."

Is that the one you posted at the end of the last LCD thread?

And one more thing I've been seeking for a long time... I rememeber seeing something once, I think on CNN, about Joran having driven Anita's car for a few weeks while she had a broken leg.

Been trying when I can to research the reason for separate living quarters, either ethnic or otherwise.  The closest I came was for servant quarters.  Does that make sense with respect to the VDS property?  Just wondering.  (architectural searches were not successful for me to this point)

I saw that last night Carnut and was  :x  :evil:  :twisted:  :roll:  :roll:

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a360/AnnaBlueSkies/ththTFR8E.gif)

Good!  You can't ever do anything thinking how the Dark Side will react.  Just ignore them and their nasty remarks about Dave.  

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a360/AnnaBlueSkies/21jxj5t_th.jpg)

I think you are doing it accurately by including that.   :D   They are not normal over there.   :?  Some are seriously demented.  This is sticking to the facts which is the point of a timeline.

 :D

 :shock:  :shock:  :shock: This I never heard before.  But I just know Joran can drive.  I never saw a guy who couldn't.  They just can some how.   :?   Think about it.  What guy his age and big and runs around all the time do you know who can't?  I think it is in their genes or something.  They just know how to drive, all of them.  Prolly born that way.   :?

My sons were making motor noises before they could talk.   :?

I remember someone once posting that the reason for all the little buildings and add-ons, etc, is the high cost of building materials.  The cost of importing the materials is $$, combined with a relatively low per capita income, making it extremely expensive to build large homes.  If you look at Aruba thru Google Earth, most newer homes are rather small, while the older homes are a haphazard comglomeration of buildings & add-ons.  It takes big moola to build homes like Astrids & Lorenzo's.  They are more like villas.  The Gottenbos house was relatively new & "country clubbish" and was on the market for around close to $1 mil USD.

YES!  I couldn't remember whether I posted them or not.  Was taking pain meds last night!

Also on the World Journier site he now has a search feature where you can search for a quote or a key word. It's pretty cool and works great.

O/T

Did anyone else watch Greta's special on the Amish Children?   :cry:
Now I am totally bummed out.  That was just too sad.   :cry: I think there is another not expected to live.  Seems only one who was shot will probably be OK.  That stands to reason for they were all so small to be shot point blank like that.

The families seem so stoic and calm.  I guess in that regard it is better it happened to people of such strong faith but what a tragedy!

.

Klaas - I searched and searched and can't find anything like the structure Freddy's house would be any closer to Joran's.  I also looked eeven further out and didn't find anything.  I measured the distance by car from Freddy's driveway to Joran's gate and it is only 0.41 miles.

On August 1, 2005 JUG TWITTY stated to that on 6-1 several of JUG TWITTY’s friends took some of the “KIDNAPPED” posters to Prime Suspect JORAN VAN DER SLOOT’s “International School.” The friends had written on the NATALEE “missing” posters something like “ask Joran van der Sloot about Natalee’s whereabouts.” While the friends were still at the school, the school’s headmaster, ROBERT WERNER, came out and asked them what they were doing, and if JUG TWITTY‘s friends were with the F.B.I. The friends told WERNER, who invited the friends into his school office. WERNER told JUG TWITTY’s friends that the day before (5-31), the headmaster had spoken directly to Prime Suspect JORAN VAN DER SLOOT and Current Suspect PAULUS VAN DER SLOOT in the headmaster’s office and that the headmaster told Prime Suspect JORAN VAN DER SLOOT, “Joran, you need to come clean on what happened.” JUG TWITTY stated that WERNER told his friends that Prime Suspect JORAN VAN DER SLOOT claimed to WERNER on 5-31 that SLOOT and NATALEE engaged in some form of sex, and, he also said that NATALEE may have hit her head while swimming that night. The headmaster also told the friends that Prime Suspect JORAN VAN DER SLOOT and Current Suspect PAULUS VAN DER SLOOT claimed WERNER that the reason that Current Suspect DEEPAK KALPOE’s car could not be seen in the “Holiday Inn” security camera video tapes around 2:00 AM is that “there was a break in the tape.” ((Obviously, the "Holiday Inn dropoff alibi-lies were yet another lie conspiratorially concocted by the Suspects SLOOT’s and KALPOE’s before the early morning of 5-31 because the Suspects never viewed the “Holiday Inn” security cameras recorded video)) JUG TWITTY also said that the ARUBAN Police have interviewed the headmaster.
Source:
http://members.aol.com/worldJOURNIER/NATALEE/NATALEEtimeline.html

Anna - I got an email today from your friend and will call her tomorrow.  Thanks for the heads up on the email, b/c I prolly would have deleted it.  :roll:

G'nite good monkeys.  This pain medicine is kicking my butt again.

May tomorrow be the day that the truth becomes evident.

I just remember people saying Freddy's house was almost right next door.  But maybe it's not??

Nite Sunfreak - hope you are feeling better tomorrow!

I know you guys have probably already seen this before, but I just stumbled across it again and it really hit hard:

http://www.projectghb.org/while_sleeping/sld001.htm

I'm turning in too, SunFreak...night all...night Klaas! :lol:

Nite Mishy!

thank you mishy for posting this again. I've posted this link all over the place and even ordered 150 booklets and hand them out to teens and young adults and ask them to please read the booklet, that one day it could save your life or a friends.

God bless~

17 Year-Old Arrested for Guns and Drugs at Mountain Brook
Last Edited: Saturday, 07 Oct 2006, 11:35 AM CDT
Created: Friday, 06 Oct 2006, 5:24 PM CDT

 
 
BIRMINGHAM, Ala. (WBRC-TV)-A 17 year-old boy was arrested on Friday after his relatives notified the authorities that the teenager had obtained guns and was carrying drugs to Mountain Brook High School.

Mountain Brook city managers said the boy took off running into the woods when police tried to apprehend him.  The 17 year-old faces possible felony charges and the board of education will review his case for expulsion.


For more information please click on the related link.

 

http://www.myfoxal.com/myfox/pages/News/Detail?contentId=1108906&version=4&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=TSTY&pageId=3.2.1

 

10.06.2006 3:15 PM
The administration at Mountain Brook High School received information that a student might have a weapon in the student's car in the student parking lot.  The car was promptly searched with the involvement of the Mountain Brook police, and it was determined that weapons and other prohibited substances were in the car.  The student was arrested.  In keeping with the school system’s policy and state law, the student has been suspended pending an expulsion hearing before the Board of Education.  There is no evidence at this time the student had threatened the school or anyone at the school.  Given the juvenile status of the student, no other information can be released at this time.

http://mtnbrook.in10sity.net/mbhs

If you are still here.  Hello and good nite Klaas

Goodnight, all. .. I think I'm

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a360/AnnaBlueSkies/thnapzzzz.gif)

Anidac - how are you??  I was just wondering where you've been!

Nite Anna!

Oh I am here....dealing with kids of course.  How about I come visit your quiet house for a few "years". (Just kidding)

Ha ha!  You wouldn't like it here..too boring for you!

GHB: Bad Child of the Internet

They call it "carpeting out" when someone on GHB is dancing happily into the night, only to collapse in a heap and "hit the carpet" heading for a fit of vomiting, twitching or an unarounsable coma. GHB is degreasing solvent (floor stripper) mixed with drain cleaner (could that be why they found cleaning fluid in Deepaks car?), and is a centraol nervous system depressant, with dangerous side effects. It is NOT a safe and fun drug as claimed on the Internet. Unfortunately, there is no validation process to protect you from false claims on the Internet. People have unknowingly taken GHB as a sleep aid, sexual stimulant or simply a recreational drug of abuse only to find themselves in intensive care in the hospital. Or, long-term to find themselves addicted to GHB. GHB gives a rapid onset of intoxication, comparable to alcohol but with a euphoric high and out-of-body experience. It often causes vomiting and muscle jerking. Breathing may slow to only six breathes per minute. Pulse/blood pressure will probably slow, or may increase. While most people do sleep off a GHB overdose, some will die without medical intervention. A GHB overdose IS a medical emergency.

GHB's Role in Sexual Assaults

GHB is rapidly growing as a sexual assault problem because it is easily mixed into a drink, hard for a victim to detect, leaves the system quickly, and is difficult for law enforcement to identify. Drug-facilitated rape cases are difficult to prosecute. A victim's efforts to prevent such occurrences and a victim's actions if it does happen are crucial. Don't drink unusual drinks; don't take drinks from strangers; don't leave your drink unattended. If it happens, IMMEDIATE reporting is your best action. A urine sample is needed right away.

Remember too- Getting excessively drunk (alcohol or other recreational drugs) does NOT give anyone the right to rape you, but why volunteer to be a victim? THINK

Product Names

These products have been sold as GHB, Blue Nitro, Renewtrient, Revivarant, Remforce, Firewater, Enliven, Serenity, Revitalize Plus, Thunder Nectar, Rejoov, Flower Power, Dream On, Jib Scoop, Water, Salty Water, Gina, Easy Lay, GH Buddy, Swirl, Grievous Bodily Harm, G, Liquid Ecstasy, Weight Belt Cleaner and several others..the names keep changing.

AKA: The Date Rape Drug

There is no antidote for GHB. Overdose victims may need to be placed on life support until it passes to assure their survival. In a GHB coma, you cannot gag to save yourself if gum in your mouth falls to the back of your throat. You may not hear a fire alarm and save yourself.

Spread the word to family and friends and learn as much about the dangers of this drug.

The life you save may be your own.

is that the same guy fro the painting rocks video?  Look at the larger guy in bottom photo.

seal or walrus??  maybe manatee?

Not sure who the guy is.  I would love to know what the other guy is carrying walking towards Paulus.

He looks like a Walrus.  I think the reason Steve Croes hangs out with him is because he make Steve look good when they are standing next to each other. :roll:

Don't have CNN site but the Deepak statement of June 13th states:

To your question whether Joran is able to drive a car, I can say the following.

I know that he is able to drive a car. One time Joran drove my mother's car from the Marriot Hotel to my house. My mother has a Daewoo Nubira modell 1999. He also told me once that he had to drive for his mother, because his mother's foot had been hurting.

Re. Joran's driving - Back in the day, we also heard that he picked his dad up from the airport, when PVDS returned from Holland.

Of course at that time, we also were hearing that Anita and the younger boys were still in Holland. And now we don't even seem to know for certain when the boys OR PVDS returned.

I personally think Joran had been driving, and got stopped enough times for PVDS/Anita to HAVE to put a stop to it until he got a license. Didn't look good for the son of PVDS to have a bunch of tickets, or whatever they do there. Kids, especially boys, are chomping at the bit to drive.

I firmly believe that Joran slipped GHB or a similar acting drug to Natalee.

As for (some of) RU and their evil antics, please do not allow that to prevent any one of us from writing anything about the case. That is what they want, to suppress information in any manner they can.

This makes sense, and thanks to your pics I have seen the signs of add ons, including the main VDS home...seams & squared off sections, etc.  Sharing this computer, was not able to acknowledge last night.

mine too.

i just convinced a client not to go there...he has spent over 10,000 every year for years...taking his kids....he would love to know the aruba beach web cam site tho if anyone has it...Mrs. Red told me u could see like 2 people on the beach....when tourists do go now and comment on the slowness they are told a standard line  by employees/cab drivers...
:"This is always a slow week....."

yep...ever since Natalee ran away..... :roll:

Is this what Joran will write a book about??

Thanks, I missed that!  

So he could have had duplicate keys made during that time, giving him a possible mode of transportation back to the beach.  Which car was Anita's, IIRC Paulus had the SUV?

FOM, here is the web cam link:

http://www.bucuticam.com/

i know i am talking to myself right now....lol...


ms marple.....looking at your sig line...

why do you think they had to disappear her body?
i think because of obvious sex assault and possibly beating/bondage?
then also dna from places she had been moveed to while alive and after her death.  until someone took care of her body for good.

any other monkeys??

any other monkeys?

Todays Bucati Beach cam:

(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/klaasend/arubacam-2.jpg)

http://www.bucuticam.com/

:arrow: TY 2NJ!!! will pass along....

also...forgot to mention obvious drugs in Nats system in above post msmarple..

I put this together for clarification of the road and gate that runs along side the VDS home.  This is the road and gate the DANA truck pulled up to:

(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/klaasend/VDSRoadGate.jpg)

While possible, I doubt that Joran needed to go as far as covertly having duplicate vehicle keys made. As permissive as Paulus and Anita are, he may well have been given his own set. After all, what's a little law breaking in Aruba? Especially when your offspring is delicious?

Note: Heavy sarcasm and deep disgust included in latter two statements. It is difficult for me to have such a negative perspective, as that is not who I am. Those people on that island and their vile supportors have earned this response.

YIKES!!!!!!  ARE YOU SERIOUS???????!!!! :shock:

I agree, FOM, my friend.

FOM - click on the link and you can see the larger photo.  I actually don't see anyone:

http://www.bucuticam.com/

Klaas, You Rock!

There is no doubt that Joran did this to Natalee.  What gives this POS the right to drug a person against their will.  Then his mother going on television claiming her sonny boy doesn't do drugs because he is an athlete.  Please her son not only does drugs I believe he is dealer who administered a drug to a person without their knowledge (criminal act #1).  I don't buy the crap she died accidentally.  Like I said before the drug didn't get in her drink by accident.  It was a plan and he followed through with it thus making him a kidnapper/rapist/psycho murderer (criminal act Nos. 2, 3, 4).

Justinsmama - I firmly believe she was drugged with GHB too.  And then the horrors of the evening began.

DennisinTn who posts on the NH forum on alabama.com has been the purveyor of that information. He would definitely know the URL for that web cam...

wow...ty Klass.....ummm.....not even any security guards or drug dealers?

Prayers for the family.
Have faith in God and Karma.
This is only the beginning.

see u monkeys later

It is truly amazing that time after time I see that webcam and there's nobody on that beach...Such a lovely spot of land and water just going to waste...that's a crime in and of itself!

Thank J2K for that, Aruba  :x

This phone call that we had been dsicussing  : Off and On for 17 months.
Did Natalee make a call to William Morris and leave a message ?

Was it confirmed that it was Natalee ?
.
What time was the call recieved ?
.
What was the origin phone number of the call ?
.
Why don't we hear more of this ?

Hey, FOM, tell your friend that change is good and go somewhere else.
.
There are more Web Cams in Aruba, the beaches pretty empty on all of them, same as the one Klaasend posted.

IIRC  Paulus drove the suzuki; there was also a blue SUV, don't remember model; don't know if we know about all cars.  Remember too, there was a silver car parked at Freddy's house (maybe that was the Nissan talked about somewhere...looks like it could have been an old stanza????).

TY KAT_GRAM......great questions too...beth and jug never found out either u think?
i did not read Daves book if it was mentioned there.


My friend will likely not go....last time he did go and the food sucked...i warned him....

 :roll:

not even one friggin bikini on the beach tho????? oh my!!!

VDS cars:

(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/klaasend/vdscartow2-1.jpg)

(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/klaasend/vdscartow1.jpg)

Freddy's house and silver car:

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e82/klaasend2/39FMontana.jpg)

I am making an assumption that the family did find out. Not via the ALE, but thru the FBI. The verification of it is what I would like. Plus the time.
But maybe that is one of those things they need to keep away from a public board.
.
When the police and the family pulled up to the VDS that night, Paulus said he wanted to talk to VAL. Odd ? Yes. That is why he was slow coming to the door.

[/color]

if this is true it would only make sense if paulus wanted to make sure the little one knew the right lie to tell if asked.....about where joran was?  when paulus got home? when paulus picked up joran...took him to school?  hard to know which part of the lie...but yes u gotta kjeep the little ones from sqealing ouit the truth....and screwing daddy and joran imo

Klaas

I was testing to see how fast the pictures would appear after my comment to Shizaru.  The extra hours at scholl have not slowed you down  :wink: .

When the police are outside your door, you usually want  to :
Find out WHY they are there. Unless, you already have a clue.

 :lol:  :lol:

And I hadn't even had a cup of coffee yet..haha  :lol:

.....and unless u need to confirm the lies b4 u answer..... :shock:

later monkeys

love u klass 8)

Here yah go! (http://bestsmileys.com/coffee/1.gif)

Klaasend

Sorry to do this to you again- but could you mark the buildings in this photo too (I think using (1), (2), (3) with description below would be best)?

(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/klaasend/vdshomelg.jpg)

Do we know on which end of the main house the family computer is located?  If the one by the sleeping quarters, I wonder if there is a window Joran could have looked out of while using the computer, ro see if Val's room light was on.

Shizaru - how's this?

(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/klaasend/vdsh5.jpg)

They are called garconnieres....description here for example : http://www.louisianatravel.com/louisianafun/family/ladictionary/

Very European old custom....they are the family's young bachelor's quarters...Seen throughout France and all throughout the American South....Charleston, Savannah, Mobile, New Orleans, etc, etc, etc....The American South was under the flags of Spain, France and Britain prior to the formation of the United States.

someone had described j's private apt as what we would know as the maid's quarters

Great, except could you not mark the truck and gate?  Or just mark the gate?  I only want to mark permanent fixtures.

I agree with you...things in the Sloot family seem so fast and loose, I would be surprised if Joran didn't have duplicate sets of keys to all family vehicles with the parents' knowledge. Factor in also, their very obvious elitist 'entitlement' attitude.  In my opinon, they do not answer to anyone.

(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/klaasend/vdsh6.jpg)

Perfect! :D Thanks

Can you tell from the interior photos on which end of the main house the computer would have been located?

Could have been originally, but the Sloots probably are used to that custom ?

Shizaru - no I can't tell.  Seems to me the dining area would be on the pool side, but I could be wrong.  I looked at this photo and there doesn't appear to be an area for a computer in the dining room.

(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/klaasend/vdsdinner.jpg)

I'll bet that there is a matching daybed in front of the chest of drawers on the right side of the room too;  The windows in the meal photo seem to match up with the window placement in the aerial shot of the main house too, Klass.

Joran moved in there when he was 15. Too much fighting with the brother, must have been Val. Before that could have been used like a guest house or a maid's house.  
Joran was on his way to the USA for school. Maybe the Sloots thought
the problems with Joran would be solved once he went to Florida, different friends, school, drinking age = 21, no casinos on every corner.
Whole new ball game in Florida. Only problem is : Joran is a sick boy and no matter where he is, his problems go with him.

Shiz,

Are you writing a book or what???   :shock: I think at the bottom of your timeline you may have to make a signature line thanking Klaas and Sunfreak for all their good help in this.  They have the most patience I have ever seen with your edits.   :D

Well, Anna, there was something on that phone they were all listening to.
" I don't know these people " with Aruban voices in the background.
Hey, I would not expect every detail of what they know to be put here for all the world to read. But it is odd that that was never officially confimed OR denied.
.
I am hopin that the Deep Throat comes thu with some good info.
.
When we were dicsussing Joran's intelligence and I copied a photo Carpe had posted of Joran looking like a total mental case, I did not know the source. It was pulled from a sceen shot of a Dutch NOVA interview and program. And Joran was sober. Or relatively so.

How about in that room where the TV is and they play games?  We have photos of that.  Seems logical to keep all electronics centrally located?

.

Can't tell in this photo if there is a matching daybed.  What I can see by adjusting the brightness is that there is a door.  Looking at the aerial views of the home, the only door on an end is at the back end of the building nearest the pool:

(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/klaasend/vdsdiningarea.jpg)

(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/klaasend/vdsh6.jpg)

(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/klaasend/vdshome1.jpg)

Not positive this is in Aruba, but I suppose it is:

(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/klaasend/jvdsandwho.jpg)

I reposted this as it is one of my fav photos of the Delicious Sporter.  Note he is the only one eating without the benefit of cutlery.  I find that odd.  Is he having something different from the others?  I doubt it.  Guess he just can't be bothered with such trivia?

Also note the blonde hair.  And the presence of Freddie.  Looks like a sort of studio for Anita in the background?  Two similar painting from what I am guessing is her Blue period.  LOL!  One still displayed on easel?  The reason I think they are hers is they look particularly bad even in small photo.

Maybe I should have had more coffee. . . . . .

We can only see Freddie's house from the end or side.  The front could look like most anything making it very hard to track down.  Is there not an address known for his family?  Phone book, arrest sheet, anything with an address for him?

.

I just saw an address today. I will go back and find it.

Looking at the photos of the Sloot compound, it looks like the buildings are not at all connected.  So this means they have to go outside to leave the main compound to go to bed at night?  That is a strange arrangement, especially in inclement weather.  Am I not seeing where they are connected somehow?

If the boys are used to entertaining, regardless if in Joran's apartment or not and are in #1 part of the house, it is doubtful that Anita and Paulus even know what they are up to, if they retire early.  They are probably used to the boys coming and going late at night, so I doubt Joran was concerned about waking anyone.

I've put it at the begining:

"This is a complete, sourced timeline of all case-related info including all statement/document info released to date.  Will edit/update as necessary.  Photo maps thanks to Klaasend and Sunfreak2 on SM."

.
I wish we had SOMEONE with TECHNICAL WRITING SKILLS who would prepare us a short, one page document on GHB we could print and use ourselves without having to pay or order.

Young thugs have no business rendering anybody unconscious.  They lack the basic skills in regard to human safety and will kill people doing this.  Not everyone will react the same way and one needs to know all sorts of data such as amount of alcohol consumed before hand, any other meds the target is taking, any allergies and body weight just for starters.  Hardly the stuff of barroom chat!

But if we had our own page prepared by say someone who is PROFESSIONALLY skilled at this, we could just print it for free and give to the young people we know who would benefit from it.  I don't like to print copyrighted material off the net for fear of legal implications, etc.

Now who could do this for us that is really really good with making documents and might volunteer. . .. . . . . . . . .????  And the grammar, vocab, and all the rest?  Huummm. . . . . . . . .
 8)

 :D

Oh yeah, FOM .... definitely a REASON why they couldn't properly (humanely) deal with whatever happened to Natalee. Lots of possibilities.

is the address 39 Montana ? or do I not understand their streeet numbering sytem ?
VDS number on the front of the gate is 19 MON

Well, good.  Even though you are male and not my internet daugher, I am still sort of your internet mom and just checking your manners.   :D   Their patience has been remarkable and you should end up with a professional looking document.  

Those maps give me a headache and I would NEVER have the patience to adjust and correct, etc. especially on those, too.   :?

We are lucky to have those two as participants on this forum.

.

JA,
No, they are not connected which makes the refusal to search at the Sloot residence just ludicrous.  Sure, those PIMPS could be in the main house doing just about anything and if the parents are asleep in the sleeping quarters, who's to know?  Same for Joran's apartment.

Aruba is desert or semi-arid so it seldom rains and is never cold so guess there is very little inclement weather at all.  And Anita even told us that Paulus is a VERY sound sleeper.  But I doubt these parents would interfere with much anyway.  

Still, it should have been ALL searched.  I have often wondered if the main house was also the intended STUDIO area for any of Freddie's productions.  Lots of room there.

.

 :shock:  You talkin' to ME?  8)

I'll see what I can do. But DEA web site is probably the best, and where I'll get it.

KatGram,
I don't understand their street numbering system either.   :?  Nor much of anything else there.   But I am hoping Sunfreak does and can check this against her finding for a Freddie house.  Like Klaas, I understood from I think it was Melody that Freddie lives VERY close by.  

Maybe she only meant relatively so or closer than she herself lived.

Anyway, maybe we can check this against the Googleearth photo?  Or Sunfreak can?  I can't find my own house as it is just a blur and nothing I do seems to make it clear like these photos of Aruba.  I wonder why.  

.

.

Yes, Joran says Goodnight, then goes out. How would Papa and Mama
know any different ? Joran could just jump that back fence also.
Well, even if they knew, they didn't seem to be doing anything about it.
That episode when Karen M went to the police and was put off from making a formal complaint, do you think the parents were called ?

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a360/AnnaBlueSkies/foryou.gif)

Well, I always heard it's the hit dog that hollers. :oops:  . . . .old country wisdom.

Klaas, is this a good idea or not?  What do others think???

Personally, I would like a free page to just print, one we own so to speak.  

.

Behind Paulus is a door leading to the outside of the house.  That door is in the middle of the sets of windows in the arial photo.  At the far end of the room is an archway & door, which is the door leading out to the pool area.

I'm working on it right now Anna.  There's alot of info and I'm trying to fit into one page.  :wink:

This is where I think the interior of where they are eating is.

(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d118/Sanddrops/Interior3.jpg)

I thought it was VAL that had to go wake up Paulus.  Then Val asked him what was going on.

Well one thing is certain: Much could go on undetected by any parents (if they were so inclined) within that compound...especially in regards to Joran's quarters.

yes, it was Val that woke him up, but the delay was that Paulus wanted to talk to Val.

Wow, Klaas, you are on the ball today!!  I always hate to ask anything of you as you are so busy with all our requests but I do think this would be great and also a good opener for adults to discuss this with young people who are more likely to be targets.

Can discuss and give the sheet as follow up.  Or if they won't listen, give sheet and insist they read at their convenience.  It just might prevent some tragedies in the making on BOTH sides of this issue.  These punks need to know that it is just not that simple to render a human being unconscious with no ill effects.

Remember there are those who say they have never fully recovered from just such an episode of being drugged with something in this dating or bar scene.  But we all need to keep this in the back of our minds when in  strange surroundings alone or any vulnerable scenario.  

People are VERY complex and can't be just turned on and off like a switch as some simple-minded seem to think.  Giving A a pill will not result in the same results as giving it to B or C or D.

Maybe at this point Val knew little of what had gone down.  Paulus was hoping he could just ignore the polis and they'd temporarily go away.  When Val woke him up, he knew he had to answer the door, and make sure that Val didn't say anyhting incriminating against Paulus or Joran.  Val could say something unaware of possible implications.  Paulus may have been telling Val not to open his mouth, and possibly trying to find out where Joran was at the present time, or as many of us think warning Joran of what was happeneing.

A "normal" person's response to someone banging on their door late at night or in the wee hours of the morning, would be to get right to the door.  It is the same thing if the phone rings at those hours.  I mmediately wonder if one of my loved ones has been injured, if there is an accident infront of my house etc.

\
I agree.  The first thing you do is jump out of bed to see what's going on.

OT, it is cold up here today....

I love the way the tattered clouds
Go wind across the sky
As summer goes and leaves me
With a tear in my eye

I'm taking out my winter clothes
My garden knows what's wrong
The petals of my favorite rose
Be in the shadows dark and long

Though every year it's very clear
I should be carrying on
But I can be found in the garden
Singing this song
When the last rose of summer is gone
The last rose of summer is gone, gone

Tom Waits....
its a melanchloy day outside

GHB printout.  I had to type it in photoshop so please check for any errors.  I checked but I often miss my own errors, lol. :lol:


http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/klaasend/GHBprintout.jpg

Paulus managed to get the police away from the house. How clever that was of him. That little shed behind Joran's apt. wouldn't we all liked to look in there.
Every interview with Paulus, he comes off as a dufus that doesn't know what is going on right under his own nose. Somehow, I don't think he is a dummy when it came to knowing .

And Anita was away in Holland.

REMINDER - Clint van Zandt will be on Dana Pretzer tonight.  Also, we now have an area just for Dana Pretzer interviews:

http://www.scaredmonkeys.net/viewforum.php?f=8

Klaas,
I don't see any errors but will try a spell chek on it.  Looks good.  Is it a full page already?  Guess that would depend on the size of the type?

Yes it's a full page.  Go ahead and print it out and see how it works for you.

It works great!  About 4/5ths of a page.  Room for a Title?

Of course mine prints blue and black instead of red and black since I refilled the ink cartriges wrong.   :oops:   But it looks very nice.

Thanks for the reminder...what time? (CST for me)

Yeah, I might be able to add a title..will give it a try.  When I print mine it comes out almost a full page though.

Mine has plenty of room so must depend on the size of type your printer is set to use.

A SCARY title   :? would be good.

GHB - THE DATE RAPE DRUG


http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/klaasend/GHBprintout1.jpg

That looks great Klaas.

I hope everyone will print off at least a dozen copies and pass out to all "at risk" young people or others that they know.  Ones who travel a lot might also need to be aware of this since it has happened in sealed containers of juice using hypodermic syringes, etc.  The purpose can be robbery as well as date rape so no one is really safe from this.

Now we can make copies any time we want them without copyright problems.

Anna - I put the link in the Monkey Lounge

Hey Monkeys,

Just wanted to let you all know ... I have been speaking with Tim Miller the last couple of days and he is feeling mich better. Each day that goes by he feels much better. Sometimes I guess the stress just mounts and Lord knows Tim deals with a lot of that.

He said to me that he wanted me to relay a thank you to the many who wished him a get well and blessings when he was in the hospital.

Hi JA.  I don't think the buildings are connected in any way, but inclement weather in Aruba is apparently rare.  I would be concerned about security.  The gates and wall around the home are not so high that they couldn't easily be jumped.  I'm thinking that Joran's apartment was a pool house, or built to be one.  Don't know why the other two aren't connected.

Glad to hear it.  Best wishes and healing thoughts and prayers to Tim.

Thanks Red. Glad he's feeling better. When I spoke to Beth, she had been trying to call him. I told her that the last thing I'd read on Scared Monkeys was that he was doing better and that it wasn't a heart attack...

Good place for Joran - in the dog house!  LOL.

Lettuce recalled over E. coli concerns  

By RACHEL KONRAD, Associated Press Writer 1 hour, 2 minutes ago

SAN FRANCISCO - Less than a week after the
Food and Drug Administration lifted its warning on fresh spinach grown in California's Salinas Valley, a popular brand of lettuce grown there has been recalled over concerns about
E. coli contamination.
ADVERTISEMENT

The lettuce does not appear to have caused any illnesses, Salinas-based Nunes Co. Inc. said in a statement.

The company initiated a voluntary recall Sunday of green leaf lettuce purchased last week under the Foxy brand name. Foxy is one of the nation's largest suppliers of lettuce, celery, broccoli, vegetable platters and stir-fry mixes.

The recall covered lettuce purchased in grocery stores Oct. 3-6 in Arizona, California, Nevada, Washington, Oregon, Idaho and Montana. It was also sold to distributors in those states who may have sold it to restaurants.

The recalled lettuce was packaged as "Green Leaf 24 Count, waxed carton," and "Green Leaf 18 Count, cellophane sleeve, returnable carton." Packaging is stamped with lot code 6SL0024.

Executives ordered the recall after learning that water used to irrigate lettuce fields may have been contaminated with E. coli, according to the company statement. E. coli can proliferate in uncooked produce, raw milk, unpasteurized juice, contaminated water and meat.

Vice President Tom Nunes Jr. and attorney Brett R. Harrell did not respond Sunday to phone calls and an e-mail seeking comment.

FDA spokeswoman Julie Zawisza said the agency is aware of the voluntary recall but had no details.

"As a standard course of action, we would expect the firm to identify the source of the contamination and take steps to ... ensure that it doesn't happen again," Zawisza wrote in an e-mail Sunday.

It's unclear whether any bacteria in the Salinas Valley lettuce fields could have come from the same source as the E. coli found in spinach that has sickened nearly 200 people and has been linked to three deaths nationwide.

Pathogenic Escherichia coli bacteria, or E. coli, may cause diarrhea and bloody stools. Although most healthy adults recover within a week without long-term side effects, some people may develop a form of kidney failure.

That illness is most likely to occur in young children, senior citizens and people with compromised immune systems. In extreme cases, it can lead to kidney damage or death.

The recall at Nunes Co., a family-owned business with more than 20,000 acres of cropland in Arizona and California, comes days after federal agents searched two Salinas Valley produce companies connected to the nationwide spinach scare.

Epidemiologists also warned consumers this week to stay away from some bottled carrot juice after a Florida woman was paralyzed and three people in Georgia experienced respiratory failure, apparently due to botulism poisoning.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061008/ap_on_re_us/tainted_lettuce_5

It looks great Klaas.

Just saw 'Visit Aruba' commercial on the History channel.

Looks like a new advertising campaign getting going.

I don't blame them for pouring their money into advertising, they have to.

Aruba can advertise all they want... no one is going .... gotta love those empty beaches....

their new slogan should be aruba ... when you want to be alone :lol:

Did notice there wasn't any slogans on the latest commercials.

Just video of fun and exciting things to do.

Sure looks like a different place from the dirty little island we've all come to know.

Wondered if there was any possiblity for public service messages to be put on about the dangers of the place.

Car~ That is an excellent idea! Staggering amount of work and money to get 'er done, but anyone up to working on it?

justins, I just sent you an email.... can you check it out?

Probably the State Dept would have to issue a travel advisory about it all establishing this as a "fact' first.  This is one of the things MsMarple and I have been trying to do with the Murder and Crime thread.  It's a start.  Rep Chris Shays is over the cruise ship hearings and bill.  I had hoped he would help but no response.

Wish more would contact all those people and see if we can even get some sort of official recognition of the truthful nature of what goes on in Aruba.  

.

According to Dana - Scared Monkeys Radio to have it's debut next week!  Woo Hoo!

(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/klaasend/SMRADIO2.jpg)

(http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/radio/images/radioteaser-smfront.jpg)

I wonder if that Sheriff's Association that made Beth an honorary Sheriff would be interested in reading the M&C thread, and endorsing our efforts.

Good ideas, guys....

Is Dana's show on tonight? Who will Scared Monkeys radio feature as their first guest?

The show is on now and Dana had Clint van Zandt on for only about 15 minutes.  Clint is gone now and it's break time.  Don't know what Dana plans for the rest of tonights show.

Thanks Klaas...did Clint say anything about the case? Sorry, I can't listen right now...

No they spoke about the recent school shootings.

Tim's doctor told him to slow down a little bit. :wink:

I guesso....I bet he's been running himself ragged for years!!! What a treasure that man is  :lol:  :lol:

Tim thanked everyone for their emails cards and prayers.  He's off the air now.  Music playing right now, not sure what is up next.

Thanks for the update Klaas...gotta get offa this 'puter now...Cya'll!!!

If somebody can come up with that association, I'll be glad to crank out another epistle.

I will write to anybody - give me suggestions and addresses. (Names too, if possible.)

Mark Lunsford is on the phone. He is another one who has suffered much and is living a nightmare.

Hi monksters, where is everyone tonight?

That Klassend is on the air...

Hints from Dana - shows coming up maybe?:

Clint van Zandt
Tim Miller
Mark Lunsford

Sounds good . You sounded good Klassend ! !

I really wasn't prepared with any questions but last time I promised I'd call this time..ha ha.

Edited to add:  Dana is so easy to talk to you forget you are on the air. :wink:

Who was that?  I missed when she first called in?

Dana wants to get  " HIP ". :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

Sunfreak did great!  Who was the last person who called in, I was having problems hearing them?

Anna is right about this, monkeys. Trying to get a severe travel warning from the State Dept. is the most effective action each of us as individuals can do - if you think a dive in tourism will make a point.

I know many of you probably think this is beating a limping, if not dead, horse, but if you really read that thread you will understand the premise.

It is extreme arrogance for Aruba to have promoted itself as "a safe place" when the murder rate there exceeds our own, they barely keep crime stats (how would they know how "safe" they are?), they mis-assign cause of death, and barely investigate most deaths?

Several letters are posted on the thread, and addresses. Use the letters as a basis. Get busy! Be proactive!

Should have added to above, re the State Dept. - whatever the politics may or may not be, if enough people are concerned, with hard facts to back up those concerns, they can't just ignore it.

I called, but I guess I wasn't talking loud enuf. I had just come to from being in a turkey coma. I wished Dana a Happy Thanksgiving.
he asked why Canadian / American Thansgiving were on different dates and I had the answer handy.
Canadian TG is based on a ceremony in 1578 that was held by Martin Frobisher giving thanks for making the journey and surviving .  
The American one is based on the pilgrim one.

You did great, Klaas.  After about 15 seconds of sheet terror, it's really easy once you know your voice is going to work, etc.  And Dana will HELP if he needs to anybody who becomes flustered.  He is so kind and helpful and calm it is really easy to talk to him.  Sunfreak did not seem at all nervous or concerned, etc. so we are getting more used to the idea all along.

The last caller must have been Canadian?  KatGram or Leslie?

This is what a "hip" Dana looks like, lolol  :lol:  :lol:

(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/klaasend/porter_beatnick.jpg)

Sorry, way O/T - but PANDA ALERT! The cub is alone and moving around a bit. Remember that her eyes are still closed and she isn't walking yet.

Kat_Gram - you did great but your phone was cutting in and out.

Sorry - meant to post the panda cam link:

http://www.zooatlanta.com/animals_panda_cam.htm

Oh yeah ! he is HIP !  !  !

Panda cub is back in mama's arms now. If you tuned in right then - that was the most action I've seen there so far. (But it will get better every day, especially when the cub starts walking.)

Again, apologize for being off topic.

From the Panda Cam:

(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/klaasend/panda1.jpg)

(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/klaasend/panda2.jpg)

Okay, Klaas - HOW DID YOU DO THAT? (Still from panda cam)?

I have been trying to do that for DAYS ...

I was terrified.  I had to take some deep breaths before I called to work up the nerve.  Then I considered hanging up before he answered.  LOL.  I was soooooooo nervous that I was stammering & stuttering & talking loudly.  But Dana has such a easy, smooth & reassuring voice.  He is easy to talk too.  I wonder if his arrestees find him easy to talk to too?    :lol:   8)

GREAT SHOW, DANA!

Klaas you have a great phone voice!  Is there anything you can't do?  :wink:

We did our Turkey Day yesterday because everyone was available.
Cooked two turkeys, a ham, sausgae, potatoes, carrots, corn, etc. pumpkin pies, brownies, buns, all the homemade fixings. Today. I was exhausted fromm 2 days of kitchen work, but happy. And I have leftovers. It was a beauty of a day, did the cooking outside, everyone happy. Hot Tub, trampoline ( not me ) kids, special drinks, lots of talking, eating, more eating, lots of laffs. Dance music. Kids did the chicken dance to Opa's ( grandpa' accordian ) Music. A new baby ! !

Right mouse click on the cam and click on stop, then take a screen capture.  Then to start it up again, right mouse click and click on play.

Kat - You have much to be thankful for!

WOW! Sounds like you had a wonderful weekend and great eats!

Thanks Klaas. I want computer wallpaper!

It was a great day.  ! !
Our family had a bad run for a while, maybe things will normalize ! !
I love to cook. They love to eat ! We are a good match ! !
Yes, some times, we ( me ) think in the negative. About what could have been, etc. We all have a lot to be thankful for. Alhtough, some days, it is not easy to come up with what we do have, not what we don't.

That Panda is getting furry and cuter by the second.

Anyone still following the Panda saga tonight ... baby is alone AGAIN! (This is unusual I think.)

http://www.zooatlanta.com/animals_panda_cam.htm

Has anyone seen the other Kat (the card dealer from LV) post lately? Anyone heard from her?

She stopped by for a little bit the other night.

Actually it was October 2nd so almost a week ago.

Kat - Everyone is like that though.  A very good friend told me:

IF YOU WANT WHAT YOU HAVE, YOU WILL ALWAYS HAVE WHAT YOU WANT.

THANKS! I must have missed reading her posts. Glad she's OK.

Public service announcement - in case anyone has forgotten what she is:  :wink:

(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/klaasend/JuliaWitch.gif)

I did see her fly across the big moon the other night.
Hey, new name for Dennis Jacobs... Big Moon.

has she done anything EVIL and WICKED lately


she is a HAG :twisted:

 :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

Do we have a Joranstein? Or Anita as the "Mummy"?   :wink:  
It IS getting to be that time of the year.  :D

Yep, she's on one of her lying rants right now. :twisted:

I see Dompig as a giant chocolate marshmallow man like in GhostBusters!

Now what fiction is she spinning ?

her pants are on FIRE,      as usual  8)

She is attempting to debunk the Joran killed his dog story.  Arubagirl and Nativelingo both said they were pretty sure it was true.  Actually, AG said this about it a long time ago:

Quote from Arubagirl He has a son, named Herbert (Herbie) Merryweather. Herbert is married and has a son, but I don't know his name. The mother of this son came to talk to my mom day before yesterday and it turns out that her son is a classmate of Joran's.

So, got it, grandson Merryweather is Joran's classmate. Turns out that that grandson and mom had a major clash with Joran some time before, because Joran accused grandson of killing Joran's dog and throwing it in Moko Dam (place where TX ES also searched), however, the mother threatened to go the cops to make a complaint against Joran, and the Joran confessed to killing his own dog.

I'm not kidding. Not even a little bit.

Nativelingo said it was a fact.  Now Glenda is trying to say that she asked the VDS's and the Merryweather's if it was true and they said no.  Glenda is FOS, IMO.

Just call her Julia Renocchio.

she is a GAS BAG  8)

 :lol:  :lol:

Oh, that. I went over there at around 5 pm...  my monthly visit :oops:
It only CONFIRMED that he did kill the dog. Of course Anita is going to say Joran didn't do anything wrong, he never does. But because there are names of  who all was involved and the sources were two good ones, I am inclined to believe he did it. Joran is a sociopath and perhaps has a personality disorder that he is trying to cover up with the excessive driniking.

SunFreak,

How are you? I keep missing you.

I know Simian mentioned it too, but didn't one of the Kalpoes in one of their statements refer to that incident?

Hi Mama Louise!! I'm doing great.  How are you? :D

Oh, I'm so glad you are doing well. I had a good day today ... went to a park in the Valley and heard live music from 10 am to 5 pm. I'm energized.

Can't find it, but I did find out that Guido drove, drives a white Nissan

I LOVE live music, especially good blues or jazz. Shoot, I even love good ole hillbilly music, like "rollin' in my sweet baby's arms."

What bands did you see/hear?

Love you, honey. Goodnight.

Thanks for all the work you do on the Natalee case.

Made me look, and what did i see? Native now denies saying it as fact...only a rumor. Must be something in the water down there.

Well Arubagirl said her mother was told it was true by the boys family.  Nativelingo did just admit the fact that Joran was seeing a psychiatrist.

what do you make of the 2 dogs coming ????

is Joran trying to say that k2 came back

if they came back??

how were they on the computers ??

or is this telling us that they went home to the computers and CAME back
after 300 am


hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm 8)

Not sure Robots.

Ahhh....thanks Klaas.

i think Joran is saying that w CANINES were there...

if they were 2 other people, i think even the IDIOT police would have asked the names of the people

2 dogs to help find the body buried in a hurry at night in the dark
by JORAN the PIG  8)

either that or its just another BS lie by JORAN the pig

cause the police would have asked who owned the 2 dogs  8)

YEP, probably another LIE by the pig

1. buried somewher in a shallow temporary grave because of the panic
situation

2. went home to MAKE alibi,


3. then went back to get rid of the body in a more permanent place

hmmmmmmmm... so NO TRACE of Dog HAIR in the K2 CAR


LOAD alert

JORAN is a FAT LIAR

what is the count up now????????? 248 LIES

GEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESH

i hate him

One of these days, when we get our archives back I can't wait to make screen captures of all these posts that people are now trying to say they didn't make.

Sat Aug 06, 2005 10:56 pm
Nativelingo posted some interresting information about Joran early this morning:

1. Joran has/had emotional problems and is a patient of a local pediatric/juvenile psychiatrist (fact).
2. The incident where Joran killed his dog and blamed it on someone else is fact
3. That bullying friends and the dog issue are the least of Joran's problems (according to reliable sources)
4. His HOBBY is Criminal Law (fact)

the dogs DIDNT walk to the BEACH by themselves

so, either the DOGS came with k2 or with someone else

OR they never were there, NO TRACE of DOG saliva, Hair in the K2 car

you can never get all the dog hair out of a car... 8)

JORAN the pig bagged in another LIE

another LIAR in the mix  8)

(http://www.zooatlanta.com/images/animals/panda/cub/za_pandacub_firstexam.jpg)(http://www.zooatlanta.com/images/animals/panda/cub/za_pandacub_firstexam_hand.jpg)

Well, somebody just posted this info at RU...causing the site to lockdown. Keep up the good work Klaas :!:     8)

Was there ever any more about the dog incident?

Beyond what Klaas has posted here, not that i know of. Never even heard a hint as to the how and why.

Wow, lockdown....too funny.

I seem to remember there was more discussion about it.  More detail of how Joran lied about it and said the Merryweather boy did it, etc.

Personally, I don't know why Arubagirl's mom, who spoke with the boys family, would be lying about it.  I do see every reason for Glenda to lie about it.

Yea, Glenda. Now rewriting history by saying it was an incident over a girl. I thought Joran was 11 when it happened?

He was pretty young, I don't remember if it was 11 though.   :wink:

Are you saying you have an idea of the age? Or are you just mocking me for saying 11? :lol:

No, I don't really have an age.  For some reason the age 14 comes to mind but I could be wrong.

klaas,
If you are still here, could you take a screen shot of the Panda Cub now?

She is sleeping away from the mom, all on her own.   :shock:

http://www.zooatlanta.com/animals_panda_cam.htm

I don't know how to do a screen shot.   :oops:

What a cute little thing  :lol:

(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/klaasend/panda3.jpg)

I am so glad you got that picture as no one would believe me tomorrow that the cub wanted to sleep alone.  She really keeps the mom awake a lot.  Maybe they will both sleep better tonight.

Thanks, again, Klaas!  Good night!

O/T N. Korea did that nuclear test but of a smaller size than anticipated.  Still, huge uproar about it even this late at night.


I wish I had a Panda.   8)

Have you been naughy or nice this year, Anna?   8)

G'nite to all the monkeys.  I'm late, I'm late, I'm late for a vey important date with Mr Sandman. Please bring me a dream......

I consider bullying and killing his dog pretty serious and Nativelingo is saying it's the least of his proplems.

So I guess his other problems are:

1.  Murderer - I believe he murdered before
2.  Drug dealer
3.  Psychopath
4.  Kidnapper - 20 times before
5.  Rapist - 20+++ times before
6.  Thief

Baby Panda is adorable!

Geez! I watched "The Day After" (the ABC movie that aired in the 1980's) last night.

Forgot to add~ Yes, Joran is definitely a sociopath.

You forgot chronic lying, #7.

Diario
http://www.diarioaruba.com/
Amigoe
http://www.amigoe.com/english/
BonDia
http://www.cspnv.com/
Solo di Pueblo
http://www.solodipueblo.com/
AweMainta
http://www.awemainta.com/
Translator:
http://papiamentu.donamaro.nl

Good morning everyone, its Monday and it seems that we are on the brink of another world crises.  I never thought I would live to see a nuclear blast but methink we might but only one..  Well just wanted to checkin and say hi!..  Everyone have a great day..

There IS a correlation between violence or cruelty to animals and violence against humans.  Often acts of cruelty to animals is the first sign of a serious problem and should not be ignored.  Knowing that he also hit his younger brother, broke his phone - all indications that Joran resorts to physical violence.  I have to wonder if any American women HAVE called the FBI to say they met him and woke up the next morning--possibly not in their hotel room--groggy and unable to remember what happened.  If he has drugged tourists before, tourists from any country, I hope they have contacted the FBI and not Paulus's network of sociopath-enablers-with-guns a/k/a Aruban Slooties.

I agree that if this did happen to young American women who were tourists that that crime riddled island I would hope they did contact the FBI.  At this point though I haven't seen our FBI help this family one bit.  Maybe in the very beginning they did but now I have my doubts and I'm beginning to lose my faith in them.  JMO.

FBI seeking info page has not changed.  If you click on B'ham field office or seeking info links on bottom of page, you will see she joins several others.  Does make you wonder what if anything is being done..

http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/seekinfo/holloway.htm

Morning Y'all.....

LilPuma, that is a very asute observation - it is documented time and again that killers/predators start out by killing animals... ala Ted Bundy, et. al - damn near every single sociopath killer always mentions starting with animals... and I don't mean hunting either... I mean cruel torture before they kill the animal.... even BTK mentioned it...

so if I lived on one hellhole island, I would be afraid of psycho boy...

JMO

:smiling sweetly here:::

and if she is lurking....

KATZ< i miss you and wish you would drop in from time to time....

Good morning.

Working and lurking.

Imagine the disgust they feel looking at him roam their island.  They know what he did.

Joran knows he is free to come and go as he pleases.  He also knows when he decides to commit his acts of violence again he will be protected.  The people in power will never admit he committed these crimes and will always cover for him.  The only way to stop him would be for someone to take his life.  JMO.

Good Morning all you beautiful monkeys!

Paulus the judge wannabe and Anita the bohemian artist/teacher wannabe couldn't or didn't want to recognize or accept the reality of their delicious Sporter's sociopathic tendencies?  Reportedly Paulus has had to bail Joran out of trouble many times.  Anita just turns a blind eye and lets her son schmooze her with pattycakes on the head and "thick kisses" (yuck).  They knew what they were raising and failed to keep him on a short leash.  It's not their fault he IS what he is, but it IS their responsibility to get him help and keep him contained.  Instead, they just let him run wild in ARuba, and have now set him loose in the NL.  Sick people like Joran will repeat their behaviors.  It's just a matter of time before he goes off again. We know it and THEY know it. Anita & Paulus will be just as guilty as Joran, b/c they are in essence accomplices b/c they know what he is and what he does and they enable him.

Paulus & Anita - DEAL with it NOW before it's too late again.

Sun and San...

it's why I don't understand how exactly that no one comes forward.... aren't they afraid of what the "delicous psycho" will one day do to their daughters, or don't they care?

JMO...

Did anyone else watch Law and Order SVU last nite?  The story line involved a pretty blonde girl who was gang raped and then killed.  Three boys involved.  Eventually, two of the boys killed the third who was planning to rat them out.  All of course were trying to keep their stories straight and cover each other's butts.  I guess that wasn't working too well.

Could be another factor in the "blame the victim" mentality - if it was the fault of that drunken American girl and her irresponsible friends, this wouldn't have happened.  Therefore, it won't happen to our daughters and once again, our island is safe.   :roll:

I've thought, from time to time, that if he came to the US (school, work)and did something, the Aruban Slooties wouldn't be able to protect him and whoever "controls" him and the Kalpoes wouldn't want to.  The obvious problem is that I don't want an American woman, man or dog hurt by this mentally dysfunctional freak, but then I don't want it to happen to a woman, man or dog in the Netherlands either - in the US, he's more likely to be put away.  In a US jail, he wouldn't get special treatment, he wouldn't get away with refusing to do what the guards tell him, and he'd meet lots of other people with interests similar to his.  Seems like a good place for him.

I think they just don't want to know.  If they don't know, somehow they are absolved of responsibility?

Hiya Monkeys

Klaas..saw where you were talking about NativeLingo posts RE Joran
I found this:

NativeLingo
Monkey Maniac


Joined: 13 Jun 2005
Location: Aruba One Happy Island
 Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2005 2:49 am    Post subject:    

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
rastamama wrote:
NativeLingo wrote:
Either he's a freak...or he's smarter then we can imagine..........
VERY VERY Smart..........


Is his hobby studying Law, or Criminal Law specificly?

Criminal law was/is not Paulus' background, correct?

Perhaps it has more to do with his father being absent than anything else.
Didn't you hear that this boy has some emotional problems?

If criminal law was his hobby, he isn't that brilliant...he would have handled this much better in the begining if he knew ALL that happened to her.



I think he knows more than we have heard, and more than he has told ALE, but I don't think he really grasped what had happened to NH in the first few days. JMO


"Strafrecht" (Criminal law) is very much one of the biggest parts of Dutch Law curriculum....especially if you're a judge in training......

And yes....he has/had emotional problems......he was/ is a patient of a local pediatric/Juvenile Psychiatrist..... (Fact)

Thanks Yap - that's part of what I copied from August.  I'm hoping that some day we'll get the archives back so I can screen shot the actual posts.   Nativelingo posted most of her most interresting posts late at night.

Good Morning Mrs. Red and ALL!!  

OT for a moment...I wanted to thank all of you who have been so kind to me these past weeks...and your prayers have brought me to a better place.

I am still trying to catch up on things .....Mrs. Red where have you been?  I see you haven't been posting??  did you go on vacation?

I see SM was invaded this past weekend ....where the broom :evil:  

And I see that old leatherface is back spreading her venom.....

I am glad to see so many of us here and those who aren't...the grass is not always greener elsewhere....nor it it always what it seems :shock:

Because they are afraid of being murdered plain and simple.  I will even say at this point the ones who will do the murdering are a couple of police officers.

Just look at the two officers that were on trial for murders that they committed for the mob.  The ALE is no different.  Compare photos of the one cop in NY and the other of Dennis Jacobs.  Two fat bastards on the take.

Here's another snippet:

NativeLingo wrote:


When I asked the "source" if she was talking about the dog thing, or bullying friends, she told me those were the least of his problems....

Hey Sunny!!  I am glad that you are in a better place.... (HUGS)

and San... two fat bastards on the take... you crack me up with your straight to the heart of the matter truth!

I didn't...I started to... I keep thinking eventually k2 will turn on jvds...

Yep...again, that's all part of what I copied from that night.  The difference is I put it into this format.  The date difference is because I am PST:


Sat Aug 06, 2005 10:56 pm
Nativelingo posted some interresting information about Joran early this morning:

1. Joran has/had emotional problems and is a patient of a local pediatric/juvenile psychiatrist (fact).
2. The incident where Joran killed his dog and blamed it on someone else is fact
3. That bullying friends and the dog issue are the least of Joran's problems (according to reliable sources)
4. His HOBBY is Criminal Law (fact)

hi San.....do you really think they look at him with disgust?  I don't, at least not the majority of them.....I think if they did they would make some noise and insist their police DO SOMETHING to get his raping/murdering ass off the streets.....hells bells they can protest over beth calling criminals ...criminals..

Good thought... makes sense to me... but it is happening to their daughters.... the young school girl and wasn't it a local girl that came forward about jvds putting a knife to her throat...

OH and maybe Ms Marple and Anna should add a little side note in their thread, does anyone remember that Beth's atty was threatened and had a flat tire???


OH and one last thing... specifically to aruba.... do y'all know how many ppl read O magazine? Oprah's magazine???  Beth is mentioned in this month's magazine.... don't think for one second ppl will forget....

hi Yappers! I remember the conversation.....which just goes to prove what I am saying...people KNOW.....but are they all so fearful of the SLOOTS and those that protect them, that they will now speak OUT!!!

Hello everyone!!  Just wanted to check in...

I hope you are right..but I think they would have to be off the island and their family off the island where the SLOOTS etal can't touch them, and they would have to receive immunity from prosecution for them to ever speak the truth!

Third... how are ya??  If you see Katz, tell her I miss her!

I think it might be both or either....wasn't there a young girl raped and then her parents decided NOT to file charges??  How can a parent NOT file charges against their daughter's rapist!!!

I did Peaches and of course thought of Natalee and her rapists/murderers

Also, the only real problem I see with this happening is the fact that currently, the K2's have no pressure to do so (turn on Joran, that is).  Until they have a reason to spill their guts (their freedom's in jeapordy, perhaps), I think they will remain mum...not because of any loyaties they may have to the VDS family, but because there's no consequences if they don't...ya know?

Bottom line is...I think they would offer up info if they were pressured to do so...

I'm good Scarlett!!  Thanks for asking!  I've missed you as well!!  Wait...you said you missed Katz...my bad!!   :oops:  :wink:

If I see her, I'll be sure to tell her...cool??

Hi Lil....I'd love to see his worthless ass in a US jail .....rapists don't do well in our jail/prison system... :wink:

Sunny,
you may be right about that... but they will never be allowed off the island...

No, my bad.. i was talking to you too!!  Honey hush!

hi TS...hope all is well with you

Yeah, I know.  Just givin' you "stuff" is all...;)

I've been kind of out of the "know" regarding this case of late.  Anything been happening on that island that is of note?  Is the investigation still ongoing or what?

Well... once aruba finds out that tourism isn't going to spring back... maybe just maybe they will do something...

or I wish the dutch would...

The victims on Aruba look at him in disgust because of what he did to them and that he is still roaming around free.  There are some on that island who will look at him like a hero.  We don't have to look far to know who they are because they helped cover for him and intimidate any witness who came forward.  Why the hell would you want to help this psycho unless you are just like him and approve of what he did?  Look at the photo of Sander Gottenbos holding a sign for Joran as he got out of prison.  Sander the one whose phone was conveniently stolen the night of May 30th.

Hey Sunny!!  It's damn good to see you too!  I've been REAL busy, and haven't had time to post.  Because of this, I've seemed to lost touch with everyone...

How have you been?  I hope all is well with you and yours as well!!

Strike, I don't know of any real new news... just that I keep hoping, praying and keeping the faith!!

San,
I missed this picture... what did the sign say?

I don't know Scarlett...I'm starting to see the hopes of the "tourist effect" become something "half empty" rather then "half full"...ya know? Sure, it'll sting for a while to come.  But, you have to remember...unfortunately (at times), American's in general tend to have a shorter memory then needed to effect change to a system as corrupt as the one in Aruba.  Not saying everyone (because those of you in here who've remained resolute should be commended).  But, for some reason, I've become a slight bit disenchanted with the lack of movement in that investigation...thus less optimistic then I've been in the past for a positive resolution in this case. Hopefully, I'm very wrong about that...

San I agree about the victims..... :cry:  they have to not only live with what has been done to them...but what continues to be done to them over and over and over.....and no justice.

things are a lot better for me now than in the past couple of weeks :wink: ....I too woulda been outta touch with what was happening except for some WONDERFUL monkeys who kept me in the know....

Is the location of 2K home on this map accurate? (home is in Hooiberg)

(http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/fun-images/aruba_20map_20homes_202.jpg)

If so could Kalpoe home be added to route map?  

(http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h291/SunFreak2/GOOGLE%20EARTH/ArialGoogleDeepaksRoute.jpg)

Well Strike I say that the memory will be longer than most ppl think because of things like O Magazine... Oprah's magazine has a gazillion readers and Beth being mentioned this month... well says a lot to me...

Sander Gottenbos on the right:


(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/klaasend/42024165_f14fd54a30.jpg)

I sincerely hope you're right Scarlett.  And, if ANYONE can get this back into the spotlight, it's Oprah!  ;)

This girl here in my office gets that mag.  I'll have to check it out when she does...

Believe it or not, Beth is mentioned wiht Tony Blair and Bill Clinton...about stress... but the fact that she is equated with having that level of stress says alot!!!

Tell the girl in your office to go see the whole O You thing in LA... if it hasn't already been there....  :wink:

So who is the girl?  Did they pay her? I wonder.....

so yet another week goes by and still no Ducth investigation.  Imagine that.   :roll:

Shizaru - it's been my observation that the various maps online of Aruba aren't very accurate.  The Kalpoe home may be a little south of the mark on that map.

We don't know.  Dave seemed to think that like the FBI we won't hear anything about it until their investigation is over.

Right???  are the suspects even on the island?

Hence, my disenchantment.  Why hasn't that Dutch investigation started yet?  What are they waiting for?? :roll: