Scared Monkeys Discussion Forum

 ::MonkeyCool::

Thanks, CBB.... ::MonkeyWink::

Back atcha, 2nj!

I'm turning in. Lots of meetings tomorrow and I'm too pooped to pop!

May this time it be different. May this time be Natalee's and her family's time.

God Bless all and goodnight!!!!

Good Night, everyone.

Goodnight CBB!   ::MonkeyCool::

Goodnight SS!

Just a thought before I go.

I do hope that there aren't a lot of conflicting theories emerging this week, because if that happens they will all cancel each other out and none of them will appear to have relevance.  Mos will just disregard everything.  I also hope that nobody refers to Renee's documentary.

Re: Natalee Case Discussion #775 11/16/08 thru
« Reply #715 on: Today at 05:17:19 PM »

I had the thought it could have been the pond close to Joran's house.  He said their search of the pond by Joran's house was short lived and could not be completed.  He further told me he could not say why it was cut short as that was confidential. (Must have needed to perform "emergency" environmental work on the pond during the middle of the night, with no supervision so as to keep an open, honest above-board investigation)

I remember that pond was full of garbage, a lot of old metal, etc (a bloody sneaker, parts of a dead body, other forensice evidence from a crime of murder, etc) from having been a dumping place for years, originally having been a rock quary.

Additionally, I thought I read earlier here that an area (perimeter) adjacent to the pond was closed/blocked off during the search)

 ::MonkeyConfused:: ::MonkeyEek:: ::MonkeyNoNo::

G'nite, all. 

Nite 2NJ - thanks for taking care of the thread change!  Been a long time since we've gone though an entire thread in a couple days.  Feels good to have some action/hope.

Hi Buckshot,

The pond by his house, that isn't the pond at the Dam of Monserat tho is it?  I have been trying to find it on a map to no avail - even Googling it!

About the pond close to Joran's house, we did have overview photos of the search going on,  Access down to that edge of the pond was difficult as I remember,  and the pond was very deep - don't know if the bottom had ever been found.  It had lots of old metal equipment in it, trees with snags, etc, so I don't think Ralston could bring his equip in there.

Do you know either where that soccer field, the Dam or McDonalds is on a map?    For some reason I can't find any maps here ::cartwheel::

Thanx

Re: Natalee Case Discussion #775 11/16/08 thru
« Reply #798 on: Today at 07:06:27 PM »

no body/no case/no corpse/no victim/no crime/no law/no justice

If there is 'no law' is there any crime? 

Does Aruba have any law to cover a case like this?


It is called the Murphy Jenkins Law...Voted into law on June 1, 2005....Passed unanimously...

Hope is a powerful word and I Hope and Pray that All Monkeys have at least some... that They can muster up for the things that are coming out about the case.. ::MonkeyWink:: Its been a hell of a long time since We had a good reason to have any Hope but things can change in a blink of an eye.....  ::MonkeyWink::   

Good Night All!

Re: Natalee Case Discussion #775 11/16/08 thru
« Reply #827 on: Today at 08:07:02 PM »

I caution everyone to remain calm..we have been down this road before.  This could be nothing or it could be something that I have hoped for.  Yes, I think there are 3 new witnesses.  The pond witness and two others.  From what I know if it is really one of the ones I know about you guys will love it, but Mos will still not do anything.  Unless Mos has a body...and a film of the entire thing...and blood on Joran...and I could go on....just that nothing will happen.  So everyone remain calm.

Maybe he hid his bloody shoe under his bed where no one would look...
And probably sneakily placed his shirt (with blood stains on it) in the dirty clothes hamper...
CSI: Aruba did not even notice...
 ::MonkeyCool::

HEAR HEAR Hotping,  I also hope Greta's mystery revelation set for Monday's show isn't the selling of Natalee to some Venezualans!  xox

Renfro's FoxNews interview earlier today:

http://www.youtube.com/v/Uq2rttoFpSA&hl=en&fs=1

Re: Natalee Case Discussion #775 11/16/08 thru
« Reply #868 on: Today at 09:23:00 PM »

I have a feeling that Mos is going to go on vacation on Monday and retire on Tuesday... he will disappear.. someone new will be assigned.  Just watch.  That's the game they are playing.  

December 31st is a Wednesday.

He will probably give a press releae on Friday, December 26th about a pending re-arrest in the case.
End the press release with "We will let you know on Monday, Decmeber 29th."

Then, he will go MIA for a week, reappear on Monday, January 5, 2009 claiming he is no longer assigned to the case, thus it is not his decision to prosecute any longer. Furthermore, he will state that there is a new prosecutor in the case, who will have to start at square one, with an interview of Natalee's parents.

 ::MonkeyWink::

Re: Natalee Case Discussion #775 11/16/08 thru
« Reply #874 on: Today at 09:25:09 PM »

WOW! I must say, Greta deserves a real hat tip. She's holding the hammer that's pounding the nails in Aruba's coffin, and she's swinging hard!

CBB - She holds the block and the hammer...
Are you Shango or Simian (in disguise) ???

This had been posted by BlackTulip (true to her name) at RU, a couple weeks ago.  It was supposedly posted on Greta's blog, but I could not find it.

....Your interview with Joran which you are going to show in a few weeks, will not give much, but will rather contradict everything that the mother of Natalee Holloway have been campaigning the last 3 years and contradict everything that Peter de Vries has “solved” and contradict everything that Phill McGraw said on his show and on the Late show with Jay Leno (who is being suid right now in California courts for manipulating and creating false evidence).

Joran told you that he sold Natalee Holloway to Venezuelans… how are you going to investigate that now? Did you check the time he did it? To who? An organisations, group or to a single person?

How will this latest “development” fit in the strange story of Natalee Holloway? What about the movie that was based on a book filled with lies? Will they reprint the book, or change the script of the movie?

If you have any answer, please let me know or contact the FBI, which is still looking for a missing person.


Media Freak

This may be what Magnolia was referring to earlier.

Re: Natalee Case Discussion #775 11/16/08 thru
« Reply #905 on: Today at 09:52:42 PM »

and....Why would Steve Cohen email Red???...on the same day that "the niece" posts....

Buckeye-
He is solicitaing donations for the Murphy Jenkins Grant-A-Wish Christmas Home-For-The-Holidays Program !!!
Buckshot

 ::MonkeyNoNo::

Re: Natalee Case Discussion #775 11/16/08 thru
« Reply #917 on: Today at 10:05:32 PM »

Mos is not planning to do anything. Should he arrest Joran it would only be for a minor offense to appease everyone and he would walk free int he end.  I would not be surprised if they did it just to get him out of Thailand.  He's safer in Aruba than there now.  BTW Thailand does care what Joran is doing...they won't prosecute him either.


Lala'sMom-
As outlandish as things would seem to the naked eye (in ethical investigations)...
Not in Aruba, it is most definitely a possibility...Nothing is shocking anymore...

Actually it looks like Media Freak (MF) wrote it and Black Tulip posted it.  Based upon how Greta and Beth are acting I'd say there's a bit more to it than the above.

2NJSons_Mom

There was also a poster, who's name escapes me, who had the coordinates of where she could be found....map and all....hope I'm not alone in this memory.

Thought that was bogus coordinates down at the port, where cruise ships arrive...
Horse hockey...

11/19/08 Awe Mainta

www.awemainta.com

Front Page (Bottom)

(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b258/texasmom55/MiscNews3/11192008AweMaintaFP.jpg)

Pap trans:
witness new in caso of natalee holloway

fiscal parent hans mos will owing to declara cu police is investigando two tip new cu they're wait for will give the evidencia cu is they have to for corobora for can realiza one detencion.a pesar cu the not owing to discuti the detayenan, past owing to tell cu police again is considera joran van der sloot the previous to sospechoso in the caso here.

Page 2
(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b258/texasmom55/MiscNews3/11192008AweMaintaPg2.jpg)

Pap trans:

witness new in caso of natalee holloway owing to aparece

yesterday tardi can did take notice cu various medionan of comunicacion internacional owing to cuminsa publica the news cu ministerio publico of aruba owing to anuncia cu have evidencia new in the caso of desaparicion of natalee holloway. according the medionan here, autoridadnan at aruba is mirando evidencia new cu will can conduci at one detencion, after of 3 year y mey of the desaparcion of holloway. fiscal parent hans mos will owing to declara cu police is investigando two tip new cu they're wait for will give the evidencia cu is they have to for corobora for can realiza one detencion. owing to pesar cu the not owing to discuti the detayenan, past owing to tell cu police again is considera joran van der sloot the previous to sospechoso in the caso here.por owing to compronde cu one witness new owing to come fast cu will can ubica van der sloot y his father serca of water for 4’or of marduga the day cu natalee owing to desaparece. the witness owing to count ; autoridadnan cu past owing to look at one man young, wet for of his pecho bay downstairs y cu one sun zapato coriendo for of water till at one fast food restaurant. the witness owing to tell cu past owing to look at he young here y one man more old coriendo some poco on caminda in one jeep cora because; 10 minuut after. the dam not was among esunnan cu owing to wordo busca in the previous to fasenan of the investigacion, according mos. one of two witness, one ex child muher of joran van der sloot, also owing to count ; police cu past owing to haci comentarionan sospechoso while cu they was on beach. the witness, publicamente conoci because; celes, owing to count ; police cu joran owing to tell “ken know? door are you on beach now cu a cu is capaz of deshace of one curpa”. adicionalmente mos owing to tell prensa internacional cu another two testigonan owing to come fast, but the not owing to give comentario on they, only cu the have the speranza cu the caso will wordo resolvi. “nos is wait for of can take one decision for end of year or cuminsamento of another for look at if is go back aresta van der sloot or no”. adicionalmente mos will owing to tell cu part important in the investigacion is the declaration of policy undercover of peter de vries caminda cu joran will owing to ‘acepta’ of owing to deshaci of the curpa of holloway together cu one amigo.mos owing to tell cu the have confianza cu the tape, cu the is caracteriza because; one confesion, will is admisibel in corte. cu the tipnan new y testigonan new, fiscal parent is tell cu the will can is evidencia sufficient for resolve the enigma of thing owing to happen cu holloway. have to menciona cu till in oranan of night prensa local not owing to achieve none relato for of ministerio publico relaciona cu the evidencia new here. is regrettable cu prensa internacional, again, is achieve prioridad on prensa local for cu the caso of natalee holloway.

CBB -

So you think that Greta was duped into participating in this plan to get Joran home?

Never thought of that...
I do not think she was duped, but instead...
It may lend credibility to their script, with or without her interview...
Just my opinion...I could be completely wrong.

klaas, do you recognize by any chance that mean looking thug of a guy in the photo of the Persistence when Hans Mos & ALE was on board.  Only a bit of his face is showing on the very right of the photo as we are looking at it.

You seem to have a steel trap of a memory when it comes to all the photo's.

MF Dammit !!  That would take me back to my very first theory !!
I really do not like Hugo.. He is the ultimate receiver,,, a Blondie American virgin.

Yes...The pond near his house...Near the soccer fields...In the middle of the night...With lights from the soccer facility on...Are blocked off from any bystanders...

Fairly certian that I read that here today, posted a while back...Read it while looking for other stuff...

Someone correct me, if I am wrong...

Altruist,
I may not have the right name but I know I've seen the face, for some reason the name "Sambo" keeps going through my mind...not sure it's right.  I'm thinking of a guy that looked like the one in that pic, had on a dark tshirt (maybe LE).

Let me go back and look.

I know TxMom, I think I've seen him before too.  Think at the time my head thought he looks like a human bulldog.  Klaas is just superhuman when it comes to those photo's, never seen anything like it before, she amazes me.

Klaas, I found a name do you have a pic of Jules Sambo?  The last name popped in my head earlier when I was trying to place that face.

 ::MonkeyConfused::

Altruist   - not really sure but could it be Edwardo Mansur? 

We've already determined this is most likely Edwardo

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub5/thugcompare.jpg)

Could this be Edwardo Mansur too?

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub5/thugcompare-1.jpg)

I don't think I have Jules

Edited to add:  searching my hard drive now but I don't think so

Wow, you may have the steel trap of a memory for names TxMom.  Hope we can identify yet another one.

I don't think so Klaas.  This guy has a more pudgy face, Eduardo's face isn't pudgy, he has a long face.

The bulldog face has hair, it looks kind of blondish, or really light brown.

 ::MonkeyHaHa::
I googled Sambo and the case to get the first name, I'm not that good...besides I may be wayyyy off base it just came to me so I thought I throw it out there.  I wish we could figure out another one too.

Can't find a photo of Jules Sambo but he was the assistant Inspector early in the case.

GOODNIGHT ALL!

Video from Greta tonight:

http://www.foxnews.com/video-search/m/21470071/new_witness_why_now.htm?q=Aruba

Thanks for trying Klaas!  Goodnight, I'm right behind you!

 ::MonkeyCool::

Steve Cohen is a POS, JR is a POS, CC is a POS....all American traitors.....
In order to evaluate all that we have been fed the last week, we need not look in the weeds...we have seen the same aruba game this time every year...
the proof is in the pudding.... 
does mos POS try to get urine out of Asia  to avoid prosecution? so he can let him go?
Or,
does the latest developments lead to serious charges and convictions against urine and paulass..(doubtful)
We have been scammed from the beginning....don't get caught up in the bs...first things first...Natalee gets justice or at least the family gets her home..
anything after that is gravy...
I like gravy and want to see urine and paulass hung for their sins...and in a perfect world, KJ, Mos, witt, smid, ahata, jr, cc, jan vs, dompig, Freddie, kalpoes, koen, Lorenzo, Guido, valentine, anita, and the rest get outed and prosecuted for their roles.....
rest assured though, Karma is coming for all of them...in this life or the next..including the latest revelations of those who may have and still have hopes of profiting off of Natalee..If true-shame on them, karma is waiting for the right time - they have to live with themselves until then.
3.5 yrs and so many are still so passionate about justice for Natalee.....seeing so many of the old guard that were regulars for so long, coming back to post in the last few days/hrs, inspires me! Monkeys are the best!
It is, bottom line Justice for Natalee and we STAND FOR THE GIRL!
Where the heck is ROBOTS?
I HATE THEM ALL!!!
 

Well said billb.  These beasts enjoy torturing this family.  There really is something wrong with these beasts, they don't even come close to being human at all & you are right KARMA is going to get them, it's just a matter of time.

STAND WITH THE GIRL _ NATALEE....
sometimes I get to excited...that is what the guards tell me anyway....what do they know   javascript:void(0);::MonkeyRoll::

 ::MonkeyHaHa:: billb!

I agree with all the POS statements!   ::MonkeyWink::

goodnight!

Thanks TM....
I agree with all my statements...I think...have to clear it with the guards first though...give me a sec...
have a good night....
billb

BT attacks me there every day  on that sh*t forum ,she is a troll and i think she is @ielen or @nita

given what greta and jossy were talking about on greta's program, that does appear to be the angle she's followed. she must be wanting mos to subpoena info on the situation regarding the turning off/disabling of the radar system that night. perhaps he already knows?

What Joran told  is a trick a smoke screen.
I tell the journalist what he / she wants to hear .

agree. i would think HOPE greta will be smarter this time, after being duped previously.

Greta's voice went right thru me. Just like fingernails on a chalk board. I no longer mind Nancy Grace.............she used to bother me before. I think with the massive coverup in Aruba that Natalee will never be found. And that saddens me beyond belief. I can't imagine that sending my daughter on a Senior trip could end like this.

Johan...Good Morning....I can't bring up Diario...Keep getting bad request message...Can you check please? TIA

hello Mum Goodmorning !

Keep getting bad request message>> same problem here  ::MonkeyConfused::

New Witness? Front Page News: FOX

News reports on Fox & Yahoo News - Wed 11/19 6:30 EST:

Aruba Police: New Evidence in Natalee Holloway Case
Tuesday, November 18, 2008A new witness in case of the 2005 disappearance of American teenager Natalee Holloway has brought a Dutch college student back into the spotlight as a prime suspect, but prosecutors in Aruba say they haven't yet gathered enough evidence to crack the case.

The Prosecutors' Office says the new witness claims the only suspect in the case confessed to her that he was involved in dumping Holloway's body at sea.

But prosecutor Hans Mos said Tuesday that more evidence is needed to build a case against Dutch college student Joran van der Sloot.

Mos further told FOX News that wire reports about the new evidence were "much ado about nothing," since the new witness couldn't provide definitive evidence. And Mos noted that Van der Sloot already has given many different stories about what happened.

Investigators reopened the case earlier this year based on similar admissions caught in hidden-camera recordings by a Dutch TV crime show. But in February, judges rejected an attempt to arrest Van der Sloot for a third time in Holloway's disappearance.

He had been released due to insufficient evidence the first two times he was arrested.

RelatedStories
Report: Natalee Holloway Suspect Involved in Thai Sex Trafficking FBI Says Fabrics Found in Aruban Crab Trap Not From Holloway Court Blocks Dutch Student's Arrest in Holloway's Disappearance Aruban Police Again Question Van Der Sloot in Holloway Case Natalee Holloway's Father Reacts to Videotape About What Dutch Teen Did With his Daughter Holloway's Anguished Mother: Tape Confession Means Natalee Could Have Been Saved Aruban Prosecutor Considers Hidden Camera Footage of Holloway Suspect Admissible in Court Hidden Camera Footage Shows Holloway Suspect Confess to Dumping Body at Sea Aruba Judge to Order Release of Natalee Holloway Suspects Photo Essays
Natalee Holloway Aruban prosecutors had sought to detain him based on hidden-camera recordings in which Van der Sloot said Holloway collapsed on the beach after they left the bar. He then called a friend to dump her body at sea, according to the video shot by reporter Peter De Vries.

Van der Sloot's attorney, Joseph Tacopina, said in February that his client was not responsible for the Holloway's death and that the tapes did not amount to a confession.

"There was no confession, no admission of a crime by Joran on any of these tapes, which is very telling," Tacopina said on ABC's "Good Morning America."

Holloway, 18, of Mountain Brook, Alabama, was last seen in May 2005 leaving a bar with Van der Sloot on the final night of a high school graduation trip to the Dutch Caribbean island. She attended junior high in Clinton, Miss., and her father still lives in Meridian.

Slept through Greta and haven't found the transcript to read yet, but according to I believe Dave's book the radar was down June 7th or 8th. Electricity went down on some parts of the island. Are they talking about another night now?  TIA

And what of the Tattoo...just read something about another boat in the last three threads and some-one asked if it was the Mi Dushi...The answer was no....Can anyone help with this...TIA

Wiggins son is supposedly at Emerson with Val...some-one needs to put some pressure on these two!

JMO...but we need a concentrated effort to stop FOX interviewing Julia...she is up to her neck in the cover-up. Anyone up to compiling all the posts and statements we can find and sending them off? Those not as informed as us may just believe this American Traitor...You will rot in hell with your lying buddy Charles Croes, Julia.

i'v read somewere there is a "second" radar not far away from the KIA

Thanks Johan...Figures ::MonkeyWaa::

here ya' go, Johan - http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,454527,00.html (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,454527,00.html)

 This is a rush transcript from "On the Record ," November 18, 2008. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

GRETA VAN SUSTEREN, FOX NEWS HOST: And tonight, Natalee Holloway, the American who vanished in Aruba in 2005. Her mysterious disappearance is back in the headlines. Now, the Associated Press is reporting that a new witness has come forward. Who is the witness? And where is Joran van der Sloot tonight

Joining us by phone from Aruba is Jossy Mansur, publishing -- publisher and managing editor of Diario newspaper. Good evening, Jossy. Jossy, the AP is reporting -- and I must say that it conflicts with the new information that we've been gathering in the last six months, but I mean -- in some ways. But what is the AP reporting about a new witness?

JOSSY MANSUR, MANAGING EDITOR, DIARIO: Well, they're referring to is this Salaf (ph) lady that was interviewed by [Paul] De Vries in the second program that he showed on TV. What they're referring to is that she was a friend of Joran, that two, or two-and-a-half years ago, she was with him, she went on the beach with him, that he asked her, What do you think if you suffered the same disappearance of Natalee Holloway? I think everyone is referring to this as new evidence. It really isn't. It was shown on the program of De Vries.

VAN SUSTEREN: When did she come forward to talk to the authorities?

MANSUR: Well, as far as I know, if -- that she was interviewed by him -- I don't know whether she came to the authorities before. Apparently, the prosecution in Aruba is saying that, Why did she wait so long to come forward?

VAN SUSTEREN: Well, that's not all the prosecution is saying tonight, which leads me to the question (INAUDIBLE) prosecution. Are they doing anything to investigate this case, as far as you can see?

MANSUR: As far as we can see in Aruba, absolutely nothing. All they're saying is, and they're sticking to, is that by the end of the year, they will make a decision, a final decision whether to take the man to court or close the case forever.

VAN SUSTEREN: Well, what -- they've issued a statement tonight, Hans Mos, the prosecutor, and it says, in part, that they're still trying to investigate every last lead, which, frankly, is a lie. And I'll talk about that in a second. But Jossy, is there any enthusiasm to investigate this case? I know the prosecutor doesn't -- I don't think the prosecutor's doing anything, but what about people on the island? Do they want this case buried or they want this solved?

MANSUR: No, they're indifferent to this case now because so much has gone on in three-and-a-half years and the people are busy with other things, other situations here. So the people of Aruba are not that interested anymore in the case.

VAN SUSTEREN: Where is Joran van der Sloot?

MANSUR: Well, we presume he was last seen in Thailand. After that presentation of the show of De Vries, he disappeared. No one knows where he is.

VAN SUSTEREN: How about Deepak and Satish Kalpoe?

MANSUR: You know, they have played their part extremely well by being so quiet and so silent. I mean, they don't give out any kind of statement, no interviews, nada.

VAN SUSTEREN: What about Paulus, van der Sloot, the father of Joran van der Sloot?

MANSUR: Well, he's practicing law in Aruba. He's representing some people that have confidence in him and he's -- we normally see him in court.

VAN SUSTEREN: Carlos and Charlie's still there, or is that under new management, change names?

MANSUR: Yes, it has a new management now, but it's still there.

VAN SUSTEREN: What do most people think happened to Natalee?

MANSUR: Most of us believe that what Joran said on the first program of De Vries is correct, that she died in his arms but not from seizure -- we don't know how she died -- that [he] called a friend and the friend dumped her in the ocean. That's what most people believe.

VAN SUSTEREN: Is there any suggestion that there was a boat there that night or any ability to dump her into the ocean?

MANSUR: Well, probably because there were some boats nearby, and especially the boat (INAUDIBLE) the tour (ph) ship, which is a tourist ship. There must have been other boats in the vicinity, as Joran would not have invented this with De Vries.

VAN SUSTEREN: In terms of boats, just so that we have some sort of idea of the geography, for people who need to be reminded, how far, for instance, is Aruba from Venezuela?

MANSUR: Fifteen nautical miles is the nearest point within Aruba and Venezuela.

VAN SUSTEREN: And do you know -- and in terms of boats that night, do you know if any thorough investigation, one that you would have confidence in? Has that been done?

MANSUR: No, it hasn't been done because that night, somebody in the police force told the people handling the radar that controls the boats in the vicinity on the coast of Aruba -- told them to put it off.

VAN SUSTEREN: Jossy, thank you.

MANSUR: Sure.

VAN SUSTEREN: Joining us by phone is Natalee Holloway's mother, Beth Holloway. Good evening, Beth.

BETH HOLLOWAY, MOTHER OF NATALEE HOLLOWAY: Yes. Hi, Greta.

VAN SUSTEREN: Beth, you know, people haven't heard from you in a long time. People -- but many of our viewers, you know, are anxious to get the answers, anxious for you to get the answers. And the question I get so many times is how are you doing?

HOLLOWAY: Well, I'm doing good. I'm trying to stay busy. And you know, when things like this come up, it's just -- it's -- it is hard. It's very difficult to balance everything and try to -- you know, you try feel your way through what's real and what's not real and -- but I mean, you just try to do it the best you can.

VAN SUSTEREN: Well, I suppose I should tell the viewers that -- you know, they know now, at least if they read GretaWire, that we've been working on this case and working rather aggressively since -- something we started in June, and I've kept you aware of that and we're going to air it on Monday. But just sort of focusing on the report tonight from the Associated Press, which is different from the information that we've been working on, do you get a ton of phone calls the minute these things hit the wires?

HOLLOWAY: I do. I do. Sometimes it catches me off guard. Sometimes I'm not even aware of certain things that are, you know, surfacing in the news because, obviously, we're not kept very well informed from the prosecuting attorney. So it's -- you know, like I said, it's just hard to discriminate between what's real and what's not real.

VAN SUSTEREN: You bring up the prosecutor. The new prosecutor is Hans Mos, or he's been new for about three years. Has he ever called you, originated a phone call to you?

HOLLOWAY: No, never. No and I -- he would not. And you know, Greta, it would never be too late. I would love to get a call from him. I mean, I feel as if sometimes, we have this self-imposed timeline on justice. But you know, there's not a timeline. It would never be too late for justice for Natalee's case. And I would very much, you know, appreciate any kind of calls received from him.

VAN SUSTEREN: Karin Janssen was the original prosecutor and Hans Mos took over. When she left Aruba, did she call you and sort of tie up lose ends, or did she just sort of vanish from your radar screen?

HOLLOWAY: No, just absolutely vanished. I had no idea she was even leaving so quickly as she did. So you know, that's always been an issue, just no communication from the prosecuting attorney's office. And you know, it just leaves you wondering, you know, where are you? And you hear all this information coming them, saying that they're following up on every lead. Well, you know, that's just simply not true. They're not following up on any leads.

VAN SUSTEREN: Has there -- now, we said the two prosecutors. Have any of the police officers, anybody from Aruba at all contacted you and said we're doing anything on the case at all? Is there any reason for you to believe it's being investigated?

HOLLOWAY: No, absolutely none. No. Not at all. Not to any degree.

Photo Essay: The Natalee Holloway Case

VAN SUSTEREN: What -- I mean, how hard is this still? I mean, it's been -- you know, she disappeared in May, and I know that you have a broken heart, every parent I ever talked to. But what's it like day-to-day?

HOLLOWAY: Well, day-to-day -- if you try to -- like I said, you try to have a healthy balance of, you know, still trying to maintain some sense of normalcy in my life as far as -- still doing -- I do a lot of engagements. I was just in North Carolina last week for a women's leadership conference and -- you know, and still trying to get back into teaching and -- but it's hard when then -- when it is coming out to where, you know, we see the latest with Joran, when he's -- you know, now coming out in Bangkok and engaging in these activities and -- you know, and it -- and it comes out of nowhere and blindsides you and just totally sends you back, you know, to the very beginning. (INAUDIBLE) still haven't made any traction in -- in -- you know, the investigation of Joran.

VAN SUSTEREN: Well, we -- you know, I told you that we pledged to try to get the information we could. You know because we've kept you abreast that we have a new lead. We have new information. It's either a wild goose chase or it is the answer. But we'll be doing all that, hopefully, on Monday. But Beth, thank you, and I know you'll be watching Monday.

HOLLOWAY: Yes. And Greta, I was just wanting to say that, you know, like I said, it's been a long time, but it's never too late for justice. And I'd be good with a "Midnight Express" prison anywhere for Joran.

VAN SUSTEREN: Beth, thank you.

HOLLOWAY: Thanks, Greta. Bye.

VAN SUSTEREN: All right, now, there is some good news. The legal panel is back. Joining us live are criminal defense attorneys Michael Cardoza, Ted Williams and Bernie Grim. Where have you guys been?

(CROSSTALK)

BERNIE GRIMM, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: We've been campaigning.

(CROSSTALK)

TED WILLIAMS, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: We're happy to be back.

VAN SUSTEREN: All right. Well, let's start with Hans Mos, who's the new prosecutor. And I'm hard on -- you know, hard on him tonight. I've called him anything from stupid, liar, anything. But let me tell you, he's -- the AP has this new story that they have a witness that's come forward. That's not -- that's not our new investigation. But in the course of his statement, Hans Mos says that they are still trying to investigate every lead.

Now let me tell you something. The new information we have, we have on videotape, in part, I have offered it to Hans Mos. I've offered -- he said he couldn't come to Washington to see it, so I said, I'll meet you halfway in Miami because I think it's something important. He said, I can't do that. I can't take off during the week. I said, I'll give you my weekend. I'll go down and meet you halfway weekend just so that you can use your subpoena power and try to corroborate it. And he says that he doesn't work weekends and that he's got a vacation coming up.

Your thought. This is a guy "following every lead."

GRIMM: Yes. I guess if I didn't work weekends, my family would be in the homeless shelter. But that's abysmal. I mean, you -- I mean, you listen to Beth Holloway. You exhaust and you check out every conceivable lead, no matter how idiotic because they've checked out some idiotic ones in this case, so -- it's just depressing. And Jossy, who, you know, you can take or leave, he used an interesting word. He said "indifference," and I think that's where things are now with people, so...

WILLIAMS: But you're telling me that you have offered to provide a prosecutor, who tells the world that this is an open case that he's investigating, information and he won't...

(CROSSTALK)

VAN SUSTEREN: They're still investigating leads, is what they say. And I offered to use my own weekend to meet him halfway to show him what we have. It's either -- this either is the answer or a wild goose chase, but he should at least investigate it.

WILLIAMS: He should have at least -- look, even if he sent one of his underlings down to talk to you -- this is utterly ridiculous. It tells us just one thing. They don't give a damn about what happened in May of 2005 on that island, and they're not actively investigating...

VAN SUSTEREN: I think -- I think...

WILLIAMS: ... And (INAUDIBLE) by virtue of what you told us tonight proved that.

VAN SUSTEREN: I think it's worse than that they're indifferent. I think that they're actually trying to cover it up. Michael, you're a former prosecutor. If someone came to you and said, I have information, would you say, I don't work weekends, I'm on vacation, I don't have time?

MICHAEL CARDOZA, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Greta, I got to tell you, all you prosecutors out there listening to the show, quit throwing things at your television right now. Every one of them that's a good prosecutor would, after you hung up the phone, be on a plane to see you in D.C. to see what you had. That's what a real prosecutor would do.

It's time that they take Joran, a kid with no moral compass at all, and bring him to trial. What do they expect, evidence to fall out of the sky? They've got enough now to bring him to trial at least for disposing of a body. And put him in jail for something. At least it'd bring conclusion to this case. Just don't be apathetic about it. This is appalling.

VAN SUSTEREN: Apathetic -- it's even hard to say apathetic because -- and I will confess they I really want him to see the evidence because he has subpoena power, and he could corroborate, which is so important. But he just -- he -- to quote Ted, he doesn't give a damn. I offered to use my weekend to meet him halfway and to show him what we have, but no interest.

CARDOZA: That's shocking.

VAN SUSTEREN: Anyway, panel -- I know. I don't know any American prosecutor -- I've never met an American prosecutor who wouldn't jump at that, but anyway...

WILLIAMS: He would or he'd be fired.

CARDOZA: I'd be on a plane in 10 seconds.

VAN SUSTEREN: I know. We need to take a break. Panel, stand by.

Here we are more than three years since Natalee's disappearance in Aruba. Here's tonight's live vote. You'll enjoy this one. Go to Gretawire and answer this question. Do you think Aruba has done everything it can to investigate this case? Yes or no? We're going to read your results at the end of the hour.

And coming up: Hold onto your seat for this one. Wait until you hear what Rush Limbaugh is saying about Senator Hillary Clinton. We have the tape, so you will hear it.

And then President-elect Barack Obama is about to make a big announcement. This announcement will make history. That's coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VAN SUSTEREN: The Natalee Holloway investigation is making headlines tonight. We have new information that we will show you on Monday night. But in the meantime, the Associated Press has a different story. The Associate Press is reporting that a new witness has come forward. This woman reportedly spoke to Joran van der Sloot about Natalee's disappearance in 2006, but then spoke with police only 14 days ago in the Netherlands. Could this woman be trouble for Van Der Sloot? Our legal panel is back.

Ted, I don't know. I'm sort of dismissive of this whole thought, anyone comes forward that late, and apparently, it's not that good of information, at least for the AP report.

WILLIAMS: Well, Greta, as we know, throughout the history of this so- called investigation, there have been witnesses upon top of witnesses who have come forward. This woman, if she had information in 2006, it's reasonable to believe that she would have come forward now, not 14 days -- I don't believe it. I don't think it's going to be of any value to the case.

VAN SUSTEREN: It's also the -- it's also evidence, Bernie, that you can't -- I mean, supposedly, she said that he made some statement about leaving her on the beach or something. It's nothing that can be corroborated, which again goes back to my frustration with -- with Hans Mos.

CARDOZA: Yes, it can.

VAN SUSTEREN: Well, I mean, no, but the thing is, Michael, is the information that we have that we want to show Hans Mos that he has no interest in because he doesn't work weekends...

CARDOZA: Right.

VAN SUSTEREN: ... And he won't meet me halfway during the week...

(LAUGHTER)

VAN SUSTEREN: ... Is information that he could actually...

CARDOZA: This poor guy!

VAN SUSTEREN: No, but he could -- yes, poor -- I don't feel sorry for him. Not at all.

CARDOZA: I don't, either. I don't, either. You're spot on. I agree.

VAN SUSTEREN: Just so you know, I left on a Friday to go to Asia, flew 17 hours, hit the ground, no sleep, did the work with did on the ground with two producers and turned around and was back Monday morning and on the air Monday night.

CARDOZA: Greta, you care. You care about your job.

VAN SUSTEREN: I'm not the prosecutor!

CARDOZA: He obviously doesn't.

VAN SUSTEREN: I'm not...

(CROSSTALK)

CARDOZA: He doesn't care, obviously. He doesn't care.

VAN SUSTEREN: Well, you know what? Shame on him and shame on Aruba, you know, because -- you know, I mean...

CARDOZA: Well, there's no question about it. Maybe this is -- maybe this is back at the United States for interfering for these type of things. They go, "Fine, you solve it, we're not."

VAN SUSTEREN: Interfering? Interfering?

CARDOZA: Well...

VAN SUSTEREN: Whoa!

CARDOZA: ... Maybe a bad choice of words. I'll give you that. Bad choice of words on my part.

(LAUGHTER)

CARDOZA: But they have enough to take him to trial now. They have enough.

(CROSSTALK)

VAN SUSTEREN: I'll tell you what they do have, though, and...

CARDOZA: I think they do, not for murder. Not for murder.

VAN SUSTEREN: Oh, well, but I -- they have -- with what we have, if Hans Mos would dare to take the 44 minutes that he needs to look at this, if he had this, he could at least use his subpoena power and disprove it or prove it. Bernie, corroboration is always key in these (INAUDIBLE)

GRIMM: Yes, especially when your case is reliant on a defendant's own statement. At least, in most jurisdictions, you need some other evidence to corroborate it. Some other evidence to corroborate it. I don't know what the law is down there. I've lost any sort of hope. This kid, on the other hand, if you're him and you're innocent, this -- I think he's been arrested three times now. And this is very distressing. Michael raises a point, which is just unload both barrels, see what you got. You can get him on sort of tampering and perhaps obstruction if they have something similar...

VAN SUSTEREN: But you've got to care! I mean, it's, like...

(CROSSTALK)

VAN SUSTEREN: In your wildest dreams, Bernie...

CARDOZA: But does anybody...

VAN SUSTEREN: ... Can you imagine turning down -- can you imagine -- I mean, I'm not going to...

(CROSSTALK)

GRIMM: If you called me and you said you had evidence in a case of mine, I'd be -- before you hung up the phone, I'd be at the front door.

WILLIAMS: I have a feeling that Hans...

CARDOZA: Does anybody...

WILLIAMS: ... Will be calling you in regard to this.

VAN SUSTEREN: I called him!

WILLIAMS: Well, I have a feeling...

VAN SUSTEREN: He has my number!

WILLIAMS: ... Now, after he sees this...

VAN SUSTEREN: He has my number!

WILLIAMS: (INAUDIBLE) And the minister out in Aruba sees it...

VAN SUSTEREN: I don't think that...

CARDOZA: Greta...

WILLIAMS: ... That he may very well...

VAN SUSTEREN: Yes, Michael?

WILLIAMS: ... Put a call in to you.

CARDOZA: Does anybody believe that Joran really killed her intentionally? I don't think any one of us believe that. Did he dispose of the body? Absolutely. May have given her drugs that led to her death?

VAN SUSTEREN: I think you ought to wait until Monday.

CARDOZA: Absolutely.

VAN SUSTEREN: Wait until Monday.

(CROSSTALK)

VAN SUSTEREN: Tune in Monday. And like I say, Monday, you know, it may be the answer or it may be a wild goose chase, but at least we have the decency to pursue the leads...

CARDOZA: Hear, hear.

VAN SUSTEREN: ... And all Hans Mos had to do was meet me halfway on a plane. He didn't have to do any of the heavy lifting, which we did. But anyway, panel, thank you. I'm sure you'll be watching Monday.

Scandi - most of the information is in the Shango thread.  Start reading around March when we began working on the Merian/Simian posts.

Mojo...Thanks...  Hmmm.........Wonder how long Jossy has had this info on the radar? He is just now bringing up the party boat?...Reminds me of his Freddy detained info which he omitted to tell us!

So was the radar out 2 nights?

Morning SS...Caps first mentioned needing pumps on Jan.29th. and a witness on his porch on Feb. 8th.

Not sure if anyone can catch up on the various discussions from almost 10 months ago...those of us that have been along for the ride are often confused!  ::MonkeyHaHa::

Hi 2NJ

I think you both may be referring to 'espionage'? I think I have those posts saved -- I will go check and see if he was that specific (espionage was the 'alluvium' guy)

And there was someone that posted specific 'buoy marker' locations, iirc.

Morning Sharon...Great memory!

Good Morning Mum!




Caps - if you are around, could you please help us with where you think Urine put Natalee after he dismembered her?  The pond?  The fish cage?  The Sharks?  Where do DTKM, Voking, and Paulass fit into this scenario?  You said that there is a back road to the "shark" area.  How was Urine able to travel from the pond to that area, if the Alpoes had already left to deal with the drug transfer while Urine dismembered the corpse?  How does what you are telling us fit into what Greta said last night about Natalee being sold in Venezuela?  Is Greta's story another fairy tale like Patrick's story?  Was part of Natalee left by the fisherman's huts with the package that was destined for the cage?

Morning Mum

This is even more confusing to me -- because I thought that we heard that there wasn't even a radar system in place yet on 5-31 ??  I think that was a contract with Raytheon?

Or maybe the one in place was not capable of detecting 'small boats'. Or something to do with it's limitations during storms?  ::MonkeyConfused:: ::MonkeyConfused::

There was something that came out about this in the early days. Sure wish I had a better filing system  ::MonkeyLaugh::

11:37 am simian:
Her decapitated body to be found. Her head to wash up on shore later.  




Caps - is the Masonic Cemetery one of the locations where her reamins were hidden?

I recall their radar system at the time was at best unreliable...I do know there is something in Dave's book about a date of June 7th. or 8th with the electricity going down and thought this was around the high rise area. Janet and I discussed it one time.

I also think there was something about a new radar system being put in place...maybe this came from Dompig. Raytheon sounds familiar.

I hope Gret isn't relying on julia for reliable info. ::MonkeyWaa::

SS...here is Caps post about the back road...Caps...I have questions... ::MonkeyHaHa::

Quote Caps...
This is though, but how long will it take to dismember a body complely?   when he was done, he left the place for a dip...where he lost one shoe...

The area that they did not search or dive was where they said that Natalee wanted to see the Sharks. and that is a little drive of the Light house.

Now from the pond via the back road comes out at the racket club. (google map) short drive.[/i]

So, as sick as this sounds, Natalee was taken to the lighthouse and like they said in the witness statements.... they didn't stay very long.

Who was the third person in Deepak's car when they were seen by the Racquet Club - Freddy?  Guido?

When sociopaths lie, there are often elements of truth within the lie.  It makes the lie more believeable and these tidbits of truth can give validity to a lie.

Gardener couldn't identify Satish, but did identify Joran...neither of those look like Joran to me...so would have to be another buddy, around the same size that looks like Joran..Pretty sure Freddy Martina couldn't be confused with him either, if he is indeed related to Karen. ::MonkeyWink::

Morning Monkeys.  Anyone have any strong coffee?????     came to work too early and forgot to stop for the coffee.

Caps -

If Urine did dismember Natalee, her remains are probably in the places where the group said they took her in their witness statements.  This would also be their cover up if they had been seen by people like the gardener and the jogger.  Rob and Carpe figured out several months ago that ALE had done a big switch on Deepak's Honda.  The car in ALE custody was different than Deepak's original Honda and it was missing some of the features that Deepak had added. Rob and Carpe spent days comparing photographs.  Did ALE make the Honda switch because they couldn't get the chocolate stains and lighter fluid out of Deepaks car?  Was Deepak's car used to transport the dismembered parts to various locations like the lrocks, Racquet Club, and fisherman's huts?  Where does the black SUV with Voking and Paulass's red jeep fit in or did they only become part of the event after Urine washed himself off in the pond?

 ::MonkeyEek::

I have been reading all the posts this morning and I never dreamed Joran would dismember the body, however, I believe his papa would.  Paulas has always seemed more guilty or more aware a heinous crime has been committed.  Joran is such a psychiatric case ( i cannot remember the word for someone who murders and thinks they have done no wrong).  Paulas had to be a major player as he fashioned the saying, "No body, no crime"  proving to me he knows there is no body and he knows exactly what happened.  JMO though.

Altruisthttp://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4145.new#new

SS...something was posted the last few days about Joran and Deepak both having cars...was this the jeep or was this the other grey car!  So many posts lately...I will never find it!

CC was told Joran's car...not Deepak's car...

Sandy...Caps...Tranlator!!!  Thanks!
 
http://www.diario-aruba.com/200811194982/Local/Speculacion-na-Merca-relaciona-cu-testigo-nobo....Ministerio-Publico-lo-dicidi-na-december-of-januari-si-ta-persigui-of-no-Joran-van-der-Sloot.html


Speculacion na Merca relaciona cu testigo nobo!....Ministerio Publico lo dicidi na december of januari si ta persigui of no Joran van der Sloot
Wednesday, 19 November 2008 00:00 Local

ORANJESTAD (AAN): Relaciona cu e ultimo noticianan cu ta saliendo den medionan di comunicacion mericano caminda nan ta referi na un testigo nobo y evidencianan cu a bin dilanti den e caso di Natalee Holloway, DIARIO a tuma contacto ayeranochi cu Vocero di Ministerio Publico, Ann Angela pa asina haya sa kico Ministerio Publico di Aruba tin di bisa pa loke ta e ultimo desaroyonan den e caso aki.Ann Angela a duna di conoce cu e testigo cu prensa mericano ta mencionando y cu cual nan ta haciendo noticia cune, ta e persona cu Peter de Vries a menciona den su programa poco siman pasa. Kiermen no tin nada nobo den e caso aki, unicamente cu prensa mericano a descubri e programanan cu De Vries a pasa na Hulanda y esaki a bira noticia fresco na Merca.
 
E vocero di Ministerio Publico a laga sa cu despues di e di dos programa di Peter de Vries dos siman pasa, OM a haci un declaracion caminda nan ta bisa cu e testigo a worde scucha pa polis na Hulanda mas o menos un siman prome cu e programa a sali na aire. Esaki ta e testigo cu prensa Mericano ta referi na dje actualmente. Segun OM, relaciona cu e programa di Peter R. de Vries di 9 di November tocante desaparicion di Natalee Holloway, Ministerio Publico a habri e investigacion contra Joran van der Sloot di nobo na cuminzamento di 2008.

Meta di e investigacion tabata pa, cu material di prueba nobo, yega na establece si Joran a papia berdad den e grabacionnan cu De Vries a haci den secreto. Haya prueba nobo den un caso asina, cu tin tres aña caba ta worde investiga, ta hopi dificil. Peter R. de Vries varios biaha a pasa tips pa Ministerio Publico. Sinembargo, ningun di e tips ey a hiba na mas pruebanan. Algun tips ainda ta worde investiga.

Den e declaracion aki, Ministerio Publico ta señala cu nan a haya un declaracion di un testigo cu a bin padilanti tambe den e programa di De Vries di 9 di November. E declaracion di e testigo aki lo worde agrega na e dossier di e caso. E declaracion aki ta na desventaha di Joran, pero no ta duna claridad pa loke ta e desaparicion di Natalee Holloway.

Ann Angela a agrega cu Ministerio Publico a cera e caso contra Joran van der Sloot dia 18 di December 2007 y a habrie entre Januari y Februari 2008 despues di e programa di De Vries.Peter de Vries a bin cu su di dos programa den cual e ta referi na un testigo nobo, cual ta esun cu prensa mericano ta papiando di dje na e momentonan aki.Segun Angela, prensa mericano a bin descubri e programa aki un tiki laat y awor nan tin esaki como un di nan noticianan principal. Esaki ta un di e motibonan cu prensa mericano a cuminza yama OM pa mas informacion.

A subraya cu intencion di Ministerio Publico ta pa na December of Januari yega na un decision riba si ta bay persegui Joran Van der Sloot of no. Mester tuma e decision si ta bay persiguie y hibe corte a base di tur e evidencianan nobo y informenan cu a bin dilanti.E PR di OM a bisa tambe cu mientras cu tin datonan nobo ta bin dilanti e caso ta bay keda habri, pero un cos si, mester dicidi kico ta bay haci dentro di poco.

Was the person who Deepak allowed to drive his car in this panic situation an experienced driver - maybe Paulass?  Paulass could look like his son in the dark.  Did someone stay behind at the Matty Apts. to help Urine?  Was that Freddy, Guido, or Lorenzo - maybe Voking?  Where did Urine do his surgery?  There had to be an awful lot of blood.  Is that why Rufo was called in the next day to clean the Matty Apts.?

Gerold Dompig States in 48 Hours Interview that Radar System in Full-proof. REALLY?

Gerold Dompig during his CBS 48 Hours interview stated that experiments were done with dummies being thrown over board in the water; every time they drifted back to shore. The only way this would not occur was if a boat sailed more than two miles off shore. Dompig then stated, “a trip that would have turned up on police radar and been captured on tape. Police have accounted for every boat in the water the night Natalee vanished“.

Cruz says he and his team have tossed a dummy overboard many times, but that in every case, it drifted back to shore. The only way that wouldn’t happen is if a boat sailed more than two miles offshore — a trip that would have turned up on police radar and been captured on tape.

Police have accounted for every boat in the water the night Natalee vanished.

That is quite a different story compared to the Amigoe article back in November 2005 entitled, “Radar-system not watertight”.

ORANJESTAD — The radar-system that monitors the coastline is not watertight. People still manage to enter Aruba illegally from sea. This was stated by the general commander of Warda nos Costa, Gerold Dompig. His statement challenges the words of Justice-minister Rudy Croes (MEP) who closed a lease contract for the radar equipment last year.

In June, July and August 2004 the radars were put into operation as a test. Vessels were placed out at sea to test the radar’s reach. The results were positive and the lease contract was signed till August 2007. A year later it becomes apparent that the radar’s efficiency is somewhat different in reality compared to the theoretical press presentation of Raytheon. Project coordinator Kelly confirms Dompig’s statement that high waves influence the efficiency of the radar. “The radar works well, but not during all types of weather. Heavy rainfall causes all kinds of spots on the screen, which makes it difficult to discern small boats. But, then again, no radar is full proof.”

Which could explain why in November 2005, Aruba entered into a new contract with Raytheon. However, Dompig stated in his interview that the radar of the night of May 30, 2005 would “have accounted for every boat in the water the night Natalee vanished”. That seems to be disputed by the Amigoe article.

November 28, 2005: Raytheon Canada Wins Contract for Coastal Surveillance in the Netherlands Antilles and Aruba

The system will enable the precision monitoring of marine traffic in the waters around the Dutch Caribbean. It will be used primarily for search and rescue and drug interdiction, but it will also help combat illegal
immigration.

Terma Radar Systems selected supplier of SCANTER 2001 Radar Systems for Netherlands Antilles

The prime contract was entered between Raytheon and the Royal Netherlands Navy in November 2005. The coastal surveillance system comprising eight Terma radars, two control centres and network equipment, will be delivered by mid-2006.

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2006/03/28/gerold-dompig-states-in-48-hours-interview-that-radar-system-in-full-proof-really/


Dave Holloway
NANCY GRACE
April 24, 2006

GRACE: Well, Dave Holloway, aren`t there logs and isn`t there surveillance in place in Aruba of all the ships that go out of the tiny island, even at night?

HOLLOWAY: Well, there is but on one of those nights, I think it was June the 7th or June the 8th, the electricity went out on the island for about two hours so you wonder if that would have been the prime opportunity to do it. Small boats, I don`t think, can be picked up as well as the big ones.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/24/ng.01.html


Amigoe
November 2005
"Radar System Not Watertight"

ORANJESTAD — The radar-system that monitors the coastline is not watertight. People still manage to enter Aruba illegally from sea. This was stated by the general commander of Warda nos Costa, Gerold Dompig. His statement challenges the words of Justice-minister Rudy Croes (MEP) who closed a lease contract for the radar equipment last year.

In June, July and August 2004 the radars were put into operation as a test. Vessels were placed out at sea to test the radar’s reach. The results were positive and the lease contract was signed till August 2007. A year later it becomes apparent that the radar’s efficiency is somewhat different in reality compared to the theoretical press presentation of Raytheon. Project coordinator Kelly confirms Dompig’s statement that high waves influence the efficiency of the radar. “The radar works well, but not during all types of weather. Heavy rainfall causes all kinds of spots on the screen, which makes it difficult to discern small boats. But, then again, no radar is full proof.”

www.amigoe.com/

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2006/03/28/gerold-dompig-states-in-48-hours-interview-that-radar-system-in-full-proof-really/

come across speculacion at merca relaciona cu witness new!....ministerio publico will dicidi at december or january if is persigui or not joran van der sloot wednesday, 19 november 2008 00:00 local
 oranjestad (aan): relaciona cu the ultimo noticianan cu is saliendo in medionan of comunicacion mericano caminda they're referi at one witness new y evidencianan cu owing to come fast in the caso of natalee holloway, daily paper did take contacto last cu vocero of ministerio publico, ann angela for so achieve know kico ministerio publico of aruba have of tell for thing is the ultimo desaroyonan in the caso here.ann angela owing to give of conoce cu the witness cu prensa mericano is mencionando y cu cual they're haciendo news cune, is the person cu peter de vries owing to menciona in his declaration of policy some week happen. kiermen not have nothing new in the caso here, unicamente cu prensa mericano owing to descubri the programanan cu de vries owing to happen at the netherlands y this owing to become news fresco at merca. the vocero of ministerio publico owing to let know cu after of the of two declaration of policy of peter de vries two week happen, om owing to haci one declaracion caminda they're tell cu the witness owing to worde listen for police at the netherlands more or less one week first cu the declaration of policy owing to leave at air. this is the witness cu prensa mericano is referi at dje actualmente. according om, relaciona cu the declaration of policy of peter r. de vries of 9 of november tocante desaparicion of natalee holloway, ministerio publico owing to open the investigacion contra joran van der sloot of new at cuminzamento of 2008. aim of the investigacion was for, cu material of proof new, arrive at establece if joran owing to talk berdad in the grabacionnan cu de vries owing to haci in secreto. achieve proof new in one caso so, cu have three year end is worde investiga, is much dificil. peter r. de vries several trip owing to happen tips for ministerio publico. sinembargo, none of the tips ey owing to take away at more pruebanan. some tips still is worde investiga. in the declaracion here, ministerio publico is señala cu they owing to achieve one declaracion of one witness cu owing to come front also in the declaration of policy of de vries of 9 of november. the declaracion of the witness here will worde agrega at the dossier of the caso. the declaracion here is at desventaha of joran, but do not give claridad for thing is the desaparicion of natalee holloway. ann angela owing to agrega cu ministerio publico owing to close the caso contra joran van der sloot day 18 of december 2007 y owing to habrie among january y feburary 2008 after of the declaration of policy of de vries.peter de vries owing to come cu his of two declaration of policy in cual the is referi at one witness new, cual is esun cu prensa mericano is papiando of dje at the momentonan here.segun angela, prensa mericano owing to come descubri the declaration of policy here one bit late y now they have this because; one of they noticianan principal. this is one of the motibonan cu prensa mericano owing to cuminza calling om for more informacion. owing to subraya cu intencion of ministerio publico is for at december or january arrive at one decision on if is bay persegui joran van der sloot or not. have to take the decision if is bay persiguie y hibe corte owing to base of all the evidencianan new y informenan cu owing to come fast.e pr of om owing to tell also cu while cu have datonan new is come fast the caso is bay stay open, but anything if, have to dicidi kico is bay haci dentro of some. come across

 ::MonkeyWaa::

That has been my theory that Deepak's car actually BELONGS to Joran.

Didn't the gardener and the jogger identify the three in Deepak's Honda?

BLONDE, HOW DO I FIND THE LAST NAT CASE DISCUSSION THREAD?
AND DO ANYONE HERE KNOW WHAT INFO GRETA HAS FOR MONDAY NIGHT??

Blonde Thanks...

SS...Val? Then who was on the computer?

Monken...I think if you just go to the Natalee Holloway section it should be there...stickied, I think!

I'll look again, Thanks, Mum!

Archives

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4129.0

I wonder how DeVries is going to feel when they ask for his Emmy back?  After all, if Natalee was sold in sex slavery then his work is bogus and Joran has thrown wine in his face once again.  Boy, this story is getting more bizarre by the minute.

You know, if Greta is really going to prove Joran sold her, then it sure goes in the face of evidence, doesn't it?  Not that we have much evidence, but it would certainly make any and all that has ever been said is totally moot at this point.   Wonder how that explains the seizure?  The witnesses that have passed polygraphs?  The ATM withdrawals?  van der Straaten saying he had seen the evidence?  I could  go on and on. 

Hmmmmm.

Of course, if Paulus was making profit off human trafficking then that could get interesting and would certainly explain why nothing was done in this case.  He really did know where the skeletons were buried. 

I wonder what Joran really said?  I wonder what Greta thinks now that Joran is missing in action?  Better yet, how does she think Mos could arrest him if he is nowhere to be found?  Am I the only person that is thinking of these things?

Why do I get the feeling I am talking to myself?   ::MonkeyHaHa::

(http://www.ikeepadiary.com/diary/2004/01_22_aruba_vacation/part_1/images/DSC05564.jpg)

Morning Lala's...I was in another thread that I know better than to be in.... ::MonkeyHaHa::

Thinking on your posts...especially Peter deVries...I wonder how many times Joran is gong to fall for his "Stings" honor roll tudent and all!

Just another un-provable story to be told.
He could say that she was abducted and taken to Area 51 if he felt like it that day.
Who is going to prove otherwise - Hans Mos?
He's too busy to work on the case. He has a vacation coming up.

Anyone remember the post about "Ask Sambo"? Rob...I remember I confused Sambo with Campo...Am I doing the same thing again?

oeps you have it  lol  ::MonkeyHaHa::

Sharon...This it...Espionage Posts....Found it from a previous discussion between you and I... ::MonkeyHaHa::

Not sure I would have found it if 2NJS hadn't posted the link back then!

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=564.0
 

As long as we are talking about confessions...didn't Joran confess to Kristine Peterson (National Enquirer) back in September 2005??  I don't remember Venezuela in that one.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?board=2.0

Mine too wreck...and it is my theory that Charles Croes didn't need any kid to jump in his car and take him to Joran's house. That is why Paulus showed up with Anita's phone at the door...Paulus phone was gone...Charles had already warned him...

Why did Diario blur the faces of Deepak and Satish?  ::MonkeyConfused::

SS, not Caps, but looked at your first sentence and a few things came to mind.  Like the aru-bay video of the clear plastic bag that looked like Natalee in it near the hotels with feet and hands misplaced (is this the place Deepak said he took a piss on the side of the road?). Guido Wever fled Aruba the day after she went missing...was he a party goer or incinerator assistant? Joran said to Kalpoes "if they find the girl, they will see the sh*t" (is the sh*t the fact that she was dismembered or is it a reference to the drugs that were placed with her in the crab trap?)  Why did Joran say 'that night I became a man" (did he mean a 'made man'?)

+++++++++++++++++++++
Paulus said: "...I think I went directly to the bank. At the bank I talked to Ruth DIJKHOFF. At the bank I deposited the money that Joran said that he had won in the Free Tournament in the Holiday Inn on the 29th of May 2005. It was approximately 500 Aruban guilders. Joran had given me 100 guilders because he had taken over my place in the tournament..."

With deep sympathy we announce the death of: Ruth Gisela Dijkhoff-Holtmann   May 17, 1955 - June 18, 2005
http://www.mementomori.net/05148.html
+++++++++++++++++++++
"...A confidential source came forward with some interesting information. The source specifically stated: There was a teenage boy, 17, who saw Joran and Natalee at the lighthouse that night. Joran paid this boy not to say anything. He has curly hair and dark skin..."

With deep sympathy we announce the death of:  Kerwin Anthony Orville Goijla   Aug 13, 1988 - June 04, 2005
http://www.mementomori.net/05139.html
+++++++++++++++++++++
"...In the trial she said she didn't kill Rene Van Heyningen. He was said to have run an incinerator..."The woman, Yesenia Castillo, is in KIA at this moment serving 18 years for this crime she says she did not commit. The death of Rene Van Heyningen
January 12, 1973 - June 18, 2005

From ******* "We have seen the rumors/reports that Rene Van Heyningen ran the incinerater both at the Hospital and at the Valero refinery. It may also explain a possible dismemberment that may have taken place so she could be properly put in these incineraters especially the small one at the Hospital. This could also explain why someone murdered this poor man because I do not believe it was Yesenia Castillo."
http://www.zeppwever.com/
++++++++++++++++++++++
The above is courtesy of: http://forum.fok.nl/topic/1186788/7/25

Fear of getting sued.  Prove Joran was solely responsible and they have a free pass to rack up the dollars from several people...Dr. Phil, Natalee's family, Diario, Jossy the list is endless.  MOO

No doubt they have pictures of Joran alone. Go figure...

The gardener identified Joran and Deepak, not Satish...Caps said yesterday the Kalpoes left Joran at Matty and it was the Kalpoes in the car. The gardener saw 3....identified 2...So who did the gardener identify as Joran...Pretty hard to misidentify that goon!

Not sure about the jogger.

Concerning the Kalpoes and what they did or didn't do.  Where is the source for this comment?  Do you see it anywhere?  In a court of law someone would have to testify AGAINST the Kalpoes to prove this is true.  Won't happen.

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3136/3043009517_f5b2b88405.jpg)

Rene is so unusual in ALL of this.. He is Dutch he was also married to a very beautiful woman. Pita posted her photo a few days ago.
I really doubt she murdered him..especially cutting off his head..
That cut was a Colombian Bow tie .. A warning..or a silence of a lamb.
jmho

If the general consensus is indifference to this case I suppose tourism is on the rise and there is no problem with jobs or money any more.  If I were the AVP I would be worried because when you get back to that lethargic stage that Aruba was in prior to the last election you give the MEP a green light for reelection.   

Not solving this case could have a more of an effect on the next political elections in Aruba. I see the AVP once again losing.  Interesting how something so casual as indifference can effect the lives of thousands.

Which comment? ::MonkeyTongue::

God only knows How Ruth Died..
 I have never seen anything written as to how and where.. and when her obituary was posted at the mortuary site, it gave no information and apparently her body was never shipped out of Aruba even though she was German and no date of service was posted.. Leading me to believe she was burned..
Possibly along with another.. N.

 ::MonkeyTongue::

Thanks SS, to both you and Buckshot.  Appreciated ;}

Lala's...I was serious...I can't make heads or tails of Caps' post on this yesterday or of his time-line... ::MonkeyConfused::

Good Mum! I just got back and was going to dig out the posts-- thanks 2NJ

I hope you saw what Blonde posted (thanks Blonde) -- the 'radar' system for the island was bu$$chit until November '05.

But that doesn't mean she was sold, imo. Boats dropping cages or divers would have been undetected as well. imo.

Good morning monkeys,

IMO, the most interesting thing about Greta's show was her statement that Mos has subpoena power and could verify or discount whatever she has. 

This leads me to believe there may be some actual potential documentation involved.  That would be a switch.  Of course, witnesses can be subpoenaed as well.  However, in this case, witnesses have not proved to have impact with the OM.  In fact, they are easily done away with.

I'm glad Nat's story is back in the news.  Whatever Jim Hammer showed Paulus, it caused him to rip the paper (transcript) from his hand and run inside.  It has also caused the Kalpoe's attorney to refuse talking to Greta.

Whatever happens, Greta is the only one of the MSM to call MOS a LIAR and call Aruba's inaction a COVER-UP.

 ::MonkeyCool::

Logged in late this AM and had to catch up.  Good morning.

I thought I had read somewhere that Ruth D. had died in the NL, and I would venture to guess I read it here.  Cannot say if it was verified, or just speculated.

Sharon, I was thinking of another LCD poster from earlier in the case.  Both SS & Klaas posted that he was part of the Brian's Dream team, which was something that I had missed along the way.  As for espionage FP posts, thankfully they were put in a separate thread and came in the more recent past. 

I am resigned to being Stuck On Stupid. I don't know anything much that I didn't already know then  -- "then" being an accounting, reconstruction of about the first three days or so after Natalee was disappeared.

The long and short of it: There was a meeting Monday night around the vdSloot pool. They may have still been there when Charles Croes and party first arrived. Tuesday and Wednesday Paul was busting butt trying to rewrite history.  

2NJ, That's what was originally written in newspapers about Ruth.

Now I am always amazed to log in here and find all the "facts" have suddenly changed and lots of "we found out" and "we know" completely different scenario each time.

 ::MonkeyShocked:: ::MonkeyNoNo::

Yep

Anna-

Colonel Mustard killed Ms.Peacock at the Racquetball Club with the Candlestick...

Well, my memory had the wrong country and I believe Edward or someone did say Germany.

**********
With deep sympathy we announce the death of:

Ruth Gisela Dijkhoff-Holtmann
17 May 1955 - 18 Jun 2005
 
(http://www.mementomori.net/images/05148.jpg)
 

Funeral took place in Germany

http://www.mementomori.net/05148.html

Bless her heart...
She lived to the ripe old age of ............50. ::MonkeyConfused::

I don't know if this has been discussed.  How long was the radar out that night????  When Simion says "the bird was on the wire"  Then "the bird flew away".  When I worked in communications (AA) we called the bird on the wire a line problem, when the line was cleared the bird flew away.

 ::MonkeyHaHa::

But I am not ruling out the Racquet Club! ::MonkeyHaHa::

But by this afternoon, it will be Professor Plum did it in the Conservatory with a rope and for a FACT certain!

 ::MonkeyRoll::

Thanks A1...never heard that before about the bird on the wire...always thougt it referred to surveillence.

Blonde posted some info on the radar a couple of pages back...Dave said it was out the 7th or 8th. More info there about how it didn't work...Surprise!

She worked at the bank in Aruba and was a person helping Paulus..
Her obituary was listed at a mortuary on the fine island of Aruba..
IF she had died in the Netherlands, her obituary would be list there not in Aruba
Supposedly she was a German national.
No funeral date was set at the mortuary.. No family or friends were invited..
Leading to believe she was incinerated..
She supposedly lived on the wonderful speck of rock called Aruba.. and had migrated years before..

Yep she made it to 50 ... and that is all she wrote.

I suppose I am also stuck on stupid and KISS as I have a very hard time believing in grande conspiracies that require large numbers of people keeping silent and a secret.  This doesn't happen in real life in my experience.

I still see this as a garden variety crime committed by a not too bright dolt possibly with the assistance of his father and not much more.  Yes, the cove up may have been a bit more complex than that but not to the extent of involving half the island.  Doesn't take nearly that many.

But I am still very interested in the concept of a drunk 17 yo being allowed to declare a person legally deceased and so can only be considered guilty of abuse of a corpse.  I am trying to get my in laws to have a family reunion in Aruba because several of them are very sound sleepers and who knows what might happen, lol!  And at the most, I'd only be charged with abuse of a corpse, six months in the slammer, right?  Might be worth it.  I'm surprised that more people don't take advantage of this nice loophole in "their system"! 

Or does it only exist for Joran who is apparently a Junior Coroner or something? 

Do they truly believe we are stupid enough to believe things like this?  Apparently, they do.

Just saying. . . . . .

Yes, I can see why A lot more in-law vacations could be booked in Aruba.  ::MonkeyHaHa::

And I am certainly not implying that there is not any amount of corruption and other crimes happening in Aruba.  I did start the Murder and Crime thread.  But I don't think many of them factually effect what happened to Natalee.

Could have been used to apply pressure to others to cover up but not directly impacting.  Dealing with a very short time line.

Even with taking last time Joran seen at C&C until he reappears at school the next morning total time not very much for doing all the things attributed to him.

Is this not just the stupidest claim ever?  Dump anybody you chose into the drink and claim "oh, they died!" and all is forgiven except for the abuse of a corpse? 

How can they even tell us that with a straight face.  Well, actually when you think about it Dompig was often smirking as badly as Joran.

But still, if this works, they would have everybody  who wanted to do away with somebody dumping them in the ocean since nothing would happen to them if they just said the person died.  Their word would be taken as fact.


I think is is one of the things most insulting to our intelligence that they try to tell us.  And I do think they might feel very differently about it if they happened to be the dumpee.  They would want more than Joran's drunken word for it that they were in fact deceased.

Well at least their precious tourism is going to tank now for certain because of the economy if nothing else.  It is going to be a long time before people will be flocking to their shores from anywhere.

Granny Toad said it all.

Well, that's my problem!  I never did like math very much.

That is also what happened with the character that took Max Derives out on a ski doo or Jet ski rental..
He said I lost him..
All was forgiven and no questions asked
ALE gave it a 2 hour search 4 hours later
Mom was sent home without her son and that strange fellow flew off into the sunset..

The boy was murdered by that man or sold off for money.
Everyone wears a flotation life preserver when they rent a Jet Ski.
No way that man would Lose that boy.. Period.

Aruba has many unexplained disapperances and murders..

Sheep being brought to the slaughter...
Silence of the lambs..
jmho

I know exactly what happened. I just can't tell anyone.
It is a secret and might compromise things.

But, if you want a clue...
Fly to the moon. There you will find a little blue box, with a locked box inside.
Next, scuba dive to the bottom of the Indian Ocean. There you will find a key to the box.
Finally, hike to the top of Mount Everest. Open the box and read what happened.

Easy as one, two, three.
Hang in there - You might be on the right track, but then again, you might not.
Don't get discouraged, monkeys...

It will all soon become crystal clear. Just ten more thousand hours of work.

Ribbit. Gotta run.

 ::MonkeyLaugh:: ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyHaHa::

At least it was wonderful to hear Greta calling Mos a liar and Joran a liar and all the rest last night.  I can barely wait until Monday to hear all she has new to tell and wish she would get on with it.

I also enjoyed hearing her panel trash any prosecutor who would not go for new evidence in a pending case.  Couldn't have been more blunt and was very surprised at Greta going so far as she is usually fairly moderate in her comments.  This system of revolving parties leading an investiation has to be totally disruptive to the process and just begs for them to just bide their time and do nothing because they know they will only be there for a short period of time anyway, why bother.

Will check back late this afternoon for the new facts!

The percentage of likelihood of a tipoff to Paul vdSloot that Monday night that Beth & troupe arrived on Aruba would have been from EITHER Charles Croes, OR the by Noord police while they all sat out in the station parking lot waiting for the police escort to the vdSloot place would be in the high 90s. Could even call that 100%.

Did we ever discover the monkey's uncle?

If i was reading correctly?PRDV will air a show on Sunday and Greta's show will be on Monday?Coincidence,and or planned for maximum exposure?As there are too many negatives to count in this case,one must continue to be hopeful,as well as thankful that Natalee and many others have the Monkey's around the world and other's in the media keeping these stories in the public eye...All Monkey's should truly look in the mirror and give themselves a pat on the back because each and every monkey truly deserves all the blessings they recieve..

KeeptheFaith ::MonkeyWink::

Some in Natalee's family believe Charles Croes has much more to do with what happened than he wants us to think. 

Paulus and Joran are covering for...  L.M.
Because they were paid to do so.. L.M.
N.H. probably did die of a drug overdose given to her by L.M or his partner
OR
Could have traded N.H. For drugs later found in L.M. home.

J.M. said to me when I asked him through another person that talks to J.M. frequently, That money is not what the producers of drugs want !!!!
They trade for supplies and services needed or requested..
 This could be Guns or ammunition or food or clothing and or services for others they have bought and paid for.. In other words some Big Guy makes a request for a American Blondie Virgin girl ... and she is supplied..  It is just that simple
The thought that N.H. could be in Venezuela has been something I have written to Greta about when all of this first began. It would involve people in Venezuela..
I have always kept up the watch on Venezuela ever since..
I have talked about this many times at BFN and most full time posters from BFN and RWV know this.
It involves the drug related group the FARC and one big red shirted fat boy named Hugo and a party thrown where girls were brought for entertainment.. It was also a Santeria celebration.
 
It is Not the Popular theory..
But it is one theory from the very first day Natalee went missing for me.

But then again I understand the politics and the nature of south American males.
Most North Americans do not.

Just a possibility.

Beth said on Greta's show last night that she would just as soon
see Joran in a Thai prision.
Greta is totally discrediting Mos and the Aruban system.

Maybe they are going after Joran on the trafficking charges.
I think she was giving Mos the chance to subpoena Luke Zimmerman
and he wasn't interested.

The trafficking charges would be more prison time in a Thai jail
than a murder or manslaughter charge in Aruba.
Even though the transfer of Natalee, true or not,  was in Aruba,
it would show a pattern.

Mos in the netherlands "a simple officer "

trans via google
Interview with Mos

'YOU MUST ASK YOU HOW Offenders THOUGHT "
Hans Mos is an officer and works at the National Prosecution Service.
We fight against terrorism, drugs, smuggling, arms and
dirty money.
Hans is the leader of a team heavy with organized crime
specialization: cocaine smuggling. "Previously there was only one big mafia boss.
Today, the criminal networks, "says Mos officer. "The best to
my job is that you must think very hard about how that criminal gangs can
Addressing! You have to wonder how criminals think and what they would do. "
Detection: a drugs case
Last, the police received information about smuggling cocaine from South America
to the Netherlands. That had to be verified. "One of the first questions is how
that your research is addressing, "says Hans Mos. "That is very hard to think.
Drug smugglers are very smart. They hide drugs between walls of a
container or between fruit, hiding under sacks of rice, pasta injecting drugs in
or swallowing beads in cocaine. You can not think of it as crazy. "The police make
therefore the prosecutor a plan how that research should be
addressed. The plan, against whom the police investigation and whether they go
observing, listening, infiltrate or do a search. All very
exciting. "The research we get more information. The cocaine was found in
food cans to be hidden that were transported in containers. But the
Rotterdam port handles about 8 million per year containers, so where had
we begin? Then you should really think again: how should these criminals that
do? We found the containers and a large number of suspects were arrested, "
Hans Mos says. "We were obviously very interested in the drug smuggling network.
We listened to phone calls and tried to find proof.
Mostly, prosecutors in such cases to investigate
South America. Such an investigation may very long time. "
Prosecution: fair trial
"If at the end of our investigation is enough evidence, the smugglers
prosecuted, "explains officer from Mos. An officer makes an indictment (a subpoena)
and sends the file with all the evidence - often more than 25 binders of
600 pages - to the judge and the lawyers of the suspects. "I want
always do nicely. It should be a clear understanding of what we have found, "
Mos officer said. 'Even a rogue must have the feeling that he has a fair trial
gets. "Then, a trial of the suspected drug traffickers. The officer
tell the judges what the police have found evidence to which there are laws
and imprisonment for contravening what he demands. The judges then make decisions.
If the convicted drug smugglers are watching the officer if there're
dirty money back to get to. "If you run against the lamp, we dress you all
off. We take everything confiscated. Houses, boats, paintings, farmlands. All criminal
profits should be refunded to the state. It also accounts abroad
be ransacked. So we try to stop the criminals. Crime does not pay. "

::MonkeyEek::

I believe someone let them know Beth was on her way before she left for Aruba and when the plan landed, I believe someone called pvds.

I agree, highly unlikely his wife killed him in such a manner.

The renewed hunting of Peter R. de Vries on Joran van der Sloot in Thailand would be a diversionary tactic may be to take the focus away from the man who coute que coute from the wind should be held: father Paul van der Sloot.

He has Natalee-raped by Joran and then they worked together and the corpse disappear. 99.9% !
Paul everywhere on the Internet is exposed as a perpetrator, not that that is now a 'proof', but it's just too much to swallow that Paulus in the Dutch research has never been given the place it deserves on the basis of the facts. Even Peter R. de Vries has not given him that place.
 But the most important indication for the debt of Paul and that brings us back to the Demmink case(in Holland )is that he was a member of the judiciary. The pattern is now no longer ignore: anyone who 'member' of the 'legal family in the Netherlands is free, whether he is  Joost Tonino hot, Fokke Fernhout, Hans Holthuis, Frits SALOMONSON, Paul van der Sloot or Joris Demmink.
   2. According to the neighbor of Joran in Arnhem  Joran brag often loud and clear about  the actions and what  he had done with Natalee. He brag  against his friends on and did very easygoing during bizarre rulings. The boys with whom he lived together all the details have heard several times. I do not understand why they have not been heard by the police. "


 Micha Kat

Respectfully disagree, or all T's would have been crossed and i's dotted. Joran would have been home sleeping in his bed, and the 2K's theirs and Papa P would have run to the door before the first knock.

If I recall, it was July 05, 2005, when the Dutch sent the SST's to look for Natalee, did anyone ever find more to this story???

But pvds never in his wildest dreams did he think Beth would be on the way that soon.  He did not have enough time to get his facts straight.  He had to school three dumbasses first.  Remember?

I agree, highly unlikely his wife killed him in such a manner.
[/quote]


Thumbs up o that BB and Edward! Infintesimally rare for a domestic dispute to end in decapitation.

What is the SST's ::MonkeyConfused::

Yes, thanks Johan.  Brings to mind a post by Michelle on the subject:

http://arubanboycott.blogspot.com/2008/07/paulus-web-of-his-pedophile-network.html

ON PAULASS VANDERSLOOT.  He is the scum of the earth and his offshoot is as well, but he is a chicken when it comes to facing real people and questioning.  He runs, hides his face.  Do you remember how he was sweating bullets at his first televised interview.  A physician here stated he was on drugs or extremely nervous.  I think a little of both.  You could see in his eyes and body language he was lying through his teeth.  The Kalpoes have been there done that before.  They were not too unnerved.  Paulas is just as guilty as if he murdered  Natalee himself (he might have).  It was his slogan and I will never forget it, "No body, no crime".  He was arrested to keep anyone from talking to him.  He was so nervous, he may have given up information.  When the web was being unweaved, people started transferring, retiring, dying, vacationing, etc.  What a mess on that island.  I would never want to go there ever.  I pray for justice.

don't know who this guy Micha Kat is, but chose this from his site because it's in english   ::MonkeyHaHa::

http://www.hetvrijevolk.com/?pagina=6584

Call to the international media: expose this!


Micha Kat          14 juli 2008

Aan alle lezers van deze site: forward deze link naar as many as foreign media as you can find!
The Netherlands faces the most criminal of paedophilic gangs and a total breakdown of law and order. Elite of Dutch politicians and Dutch law-enforcement involved. Government blackmailed for years and years. Biggest media-cover up in the history of Dutch press.
Outline of Dutch Demmink-case for the international media.

Aan alle lezers van deze site: forward deze link naar as many as foreign media as you can find!

The Netherlands faces the most criminal of paedophilic gangs and a total breakdown of law and order. Elite of Dutch politicians and Dutch law-enforcement involved. Government blackmailed for years and years. Biggest media-cover up in the history of Dutch press.

Outline of Dutch Demmink-case for the international media.

Facts about the Dutch Dutroux-case and the blackmailing of government

   1. In the summer of 1996 Marc Dutroux was arrested in Belgium. In the ensuing process, which resulted in his conviction in 2004, many indications and documents pointed at the involvement of Dutch politicians and other important people in the abuse of children for sexual purposes. These leads however were never followed.

   1. In 1998 the Dutch prosecutors in Amsterdam were working on the so called ‘Rolodex case’ in which a bunch of very high-ranking people were suspected of being member of a gang of abusers of children. Among those people were a former minister of the cabinet, the personal counsel of queen Beatrix and two leading criminal prosecutors. The police was already preparing to make arrests and search houses, when the whole operation was killed. It later emerged in the so called ‘Runderkamp-papers’ (named after a leading journalist from the NOS, the Dutch main news-medium, who worked on the case) that a very high official in the Ministry of Justice in the Hague, mr. Joris Demmink, played a strange role in the affair: he was suspected of being a member of the gang but also leaked information from the prosecution to the suspects. Police officers and also mr. Runderkamp thought that this role of Demmink was behind the decision to cancel the ‘Rolodex-operation’ as suspects were warned and had the chance to destroy evidence.

   1. In april 1998 Dutch television-documentary Netwerk broadcasted two items about a bunch of criminals smuggling young children to the Netherlands from Eastern Europe for sexual purposes. Netwerk laid hands on telephone-taps from the Rolodex-case; in these taps we hear a very high ranking official from the Ministry of Justice named ‘Joris’ ‘ordering’ some children for the weekend. The official identity of this ‘Joris’ has never been officially clarified, although now it is a ‘public secret’ that it is Joris Demmink.

   1. In November 2002 mr. Joris Demmink is appointed as the highest official on legal matters in the Netherlands. As his appointment lay on the table, there were 40 warnings and indications of his criminal sexual behavior. They were all laid aside.

   1. In October 2003 two Dutch magazines published long and detailed stories about mr. Joris Demmink abusing under-aged prostitutes in a public park in the south of the country. It was published that he used his state-paid limousine to abuse young children on the back bench. The cabinet reacted vehemently by saying it were all lies. One week later however, one of the abused children in the park indicts mr. Demmink for criminal offense. Two days later it is made known by the cabinet that the indiction was ‘false’. Demmink in the meantime confesses to two journalists that he has had sex with under-aged children . This is later reported by the NOS evening journal on television. But than the lawyers for Demmink start fighting the allegation, resulting in a ‘sort of’ rectification by the NOS.

   1. In april 2007 the whole affair gets an international dimension as a lawyer for an important Turkish-Kurdish businessman and politician again indicts mr. Demmink for sexual abuse of children. This lawyer has the most shocking of stories, all very well documented with tapes, video’s and Turkish police-reports. The basis of this new allegation is that the Turkish government has blackmailed the Dutch government by threatening to ask for the eviction of mr. Demmink to Turkey for sexual crimes committed in Turkey if the Dutch did not put the Kurdish businessman in jale for life. The Turkish government wanted to get rid of this businessman because he had evidence that the Turkish government at that time (under Tansu Ciller) was heavily involved in exporting of drugs and was spreading this evidence around the world. The Dutch government succumbs to the Turks, mainly because the Turks have photographs of Demmink abusing children in Turkey, and organize a complete ‘fake-process’ to get the Kurdish businessman convicted. In this process they used specially fabricated and manipulated telephone-taps. That these taps were fake has been proven by more than ten specialists from the Netherlands and the USA.

   1. In 2008 there are many more indications that the whole legal system in the Netherlands is corrupted by blackmail as many big criminals can walk free for the most bizarre of reasons. Again the Rolodex-case comes to the forefront: the indications of blackmail focus around cases handled by prosecutors who were also member of the abusive gang. Another indication for blackmail are the 20 or so cases in which highly classified files were ‘lost’ or ‘stolen’ from high-ranking officials. These files mostly contained information about high-profile criminal investigations.

   1. In the summer of 2008 the Dutch government denies any indication of criminal offense by mr. Demmink or by other high-ranking officials. Demmink is still in function in the Ministry of Justice. The lawyer for the Kurdish businessman now has appealed against a court-ruling not to prosecute mr. Demmink. The higher court is due to rule in September about this appeal. This is the last chance of mr. Demmink being brought to justice.

The last medium in the Netherlands researching this case has stopped working on it in 2007. At this moment, the media keep quiet or are protecting mr. Demmink by writing that he is a ‘victim of a slandering-operation by criminal gangs’ without elaborating any further. I have written many stories about this case on the internet and want it to come out in the international media as I have not the slightest doubt on the extreme seriousness of the situation in my country.

This is a ‘master-link’ summarizing the basic facts. Underneath this link are many more links solidifying the evidence.

http://www.klokkenluideronline.nl/artikel/755/affaire-joris-demmink-het-feitenoverzicht.html

It is in Dutch however

Aan alle lezers van deze site: forward deze link naar as many as foreign media as you can find!

Stands for Super Sonic Transport, I believe.

Micha's website > http://www.klokkenluideronline.nl/

Also, want to know more about the supposed ET Grid stationed in Aruba.  Is that for real????  I have always thought, and this will probably amuse some, that there was something more to this story.  Something more valueable than oil, more dangerous than drugs, that Aruba would allow the US to destroy their ecomony.  What are they really hiding????

Exactly. They knew she would be there, but I don't agree that they were aware she was on the way before she left for Aruba. I agree with what Granny said, and this suprise element (to a degree) was what allowed the information that did surface in those initial first hours was likely most correct.

also Micha  ::MonkeyHaHa::

   Joran case, "Aruba brothel for judges"
Published by Micha Kat September 23, 2008 in General.

Of the situation in Aruba, I know what the extent to which there are many hotemetoten be spoiled by the mostly Colombian whores. And everybody knows everybody, so .... It would surprise me almost as the father of Joran not so much compromising information about key people in police and judiciary had, so that he can blackmail them.

Wichers says' the court rammende 'Wedzinga in an email to this website which previously was quoted on this site because the former councilor in the same mails Mr Donner and Hirsch Ballin described as permanent visitors of an SM club in Breda. Currently, the 'Slootjes "weather plenty of interest because through a publication in De Telegraaf now the focus is again focused on the' judge in training" Paul van der Sloot. The 'Emmy' for Peter R. de Vries for his "Joran broadcast" indicates the matter back timeliness. This site has always said that father-Sloot is the key to solving the mystery-Holloway, but that Paul protection is taken by the judiciary because of his knowledge of the sexual excesses of the men (and women) judges to "the islands. " Worse: Paul was a kind of 'sexual Maitre the plaisir "for the right guild which should ensure that the magistrates had enough kicks! The unveiling of Wedzinga that judges in Aruba to go outside to Colombian sex with hookers is grist to the mill of this hypothesis.

The moral of this story: the case will never be solved because all the senior gentlemen to over and under their toga in the sexual dredging have become entangled! If justice had the matter seriously want to tackle, that was already long done and were father and son Van der Sloot already long and wide behind bars!

Not drama. It was reported that he was found Columbian necktie style...which indicated that the head was nearly off and the tongue pulled out to appear as a tie. Size has nothing to do with it.....it is much more......just like the suicides of which we have seen photos - with their hands in their pockets, or feet touching ground? A sunny place for shady people........

This is from the original report in the June 21, 2005 AM Digital (I don't know how to post the whole pdf)

He did not show up at his job for two days

Police is investigating the cause behind the dead of the man Rene van Heyningen whose body was found behind the Government cemetery at Sabana Basora.
It was mrs. Y.C.H., 29 years old, who arrived home at Sabana Basora around 7:30 a.m. Saturday to find the house in a total mess and with signs of violence, including traces of blood. At observing the scene police said that the injured person could not be alive.
The man that should have been at that house could not be found anywhere, and his grey pick-up truck was not there either. Immediately alarm was sounded.
Police agents who arrived at the scene started a thorough search of the area and moments later discover the pick-up truck behind the Government cemetery in Sabana Basor. The beheaded body of Rene van Heyningen, who worked at the refinery, was found in the bushes not far from the vehicle.
Rene van Heyningen was born on Janaury 12, 1973 and resided at van Lennepstraat 17 in San Nicolas. So far, no detention has taken place in this case. According to the police, the house owner was heard as a possible witness.
We extend our deepest condolences to the bereaved family.

Come on Edward, you excel in politics, work with me here.

Love this........A sunny place for shady people........

It was reported that ...

I don't think so, but I could be wrong with this funky old memory. Speculated by bloggers for the drama seems morelike, to me.

Have you ever wondered what "details" Joran gave these neighbors?  Would this be the same neighbors that were disturbed all the time he lived next door?  Why would anyone want to ask if Joran told them anything...they might have to solve the case and jail the fair-haired child.

Mariloo
Just as a curiosity...who would be the person that alerted Aruba to Beth and Co. arrival that night?  Any ideas? TIA

And why was Air Force Two there without Mr. Chaney for two days??????

Thanks Johan, i didn`t read that yet ::MonkeyWink::

I thought someone working at the airport.  Flights have to be scheduled, etc.  Also, I have thought someone at the Hotel may have alerted she is missing.

That's on the back of the t-shirt I bought at Emerald Point on Greenwood Lake  ::MonkeyLaugh::

I never saw any report of a Colombian necktie, either.  Was speculated that the wife might have had assistance from a lover perhaps but head was almost removed via machete or one speculation of a shovel.

Nothing fancy reported as fact that I ever saw either.

But as I say, things get more dramatic with repeating over the years it seems.

Ok, I will say one more thing about this and then I will hush.  2005, 124 HLW Cannisters. were shipped from France.  These, I believe are shipped thru the Caribbean. 

I keep getting interrupted here.  I am on the job.  The nerve of some people.  They just don't know how important this website is to me.  Because of the commotion the night Beth arrived, it always appeared someone called PVDS and whoever else and let them know the posse is coming.  He hid and did not want to answer the door/gate.  I do not believe he had enough time to get the stories straight and dummy jvds just kept opening his mouth and inserting feet.  If jvds and pvds would have had a different demeanor, maybe be so upset and willing to leave the home immediately and go look for Natalee or let the police in and invite the family in and do everything possible to help, I may have been inclined to believe an accident happened only between jvds and Natalee.  Someone had made pvds very nervous before Beth arrived.  I do believe even though he was afraid of what was coming, he did not quite believe this would happen so fast or come down so hard.  He does not know how much we love our family and we will not give up.  That is all I am saying.  There has been so much evidence from so many people I have never heard of except here on this site.  I am not a detective, just a caring mother.  There are so many good detectives here.  I do not have a criminal mind and find it hard to think like one.

No the article says machete so that was not speculation. I also know that the necktie part was very early- not something that developed "over the years". I have no vested interest in the guy having been killed neck tie or not.

Hello My Dear Gran Toad,

The only thing I have added to our original research is the possibility of the DEA Agent Eric Williams having "gone native" or whatever we can call the expats who seem to have lost all allegiance to their own country in favor of Aruban tourism.  I think now he may have had a hand in tipping off someone.

Maybe Croes who in turn tipped off Sloots?

Remember September, 2007, Mos said three things prevented the investigation from going forward:  The U.S. media, the family and the DEA Agent.

I think he was a fox in the hen house sotaspeak.

Doesn't really change anything at all just would like to know more about this elusive person and any role he might have played in throwing the family off track right from the start as I have come to conclude that is exactly what he did.

Like Croes, he disappeared for a bit and I think the two of them were in collusion on the tip off of Sloots and maybe others as well.

Otherwise, I have seen very little that has actually convinced me of anything more than we knew from the get-go.

And that quote of Paulus being surprised that they arrived so soon is from Island Hopper who was trying to start a sort of novel or book about the situation, creative dialog.  Don't believe he ever said that, at least never heard it verified by Beth.

Otherwise, no changes from our first pinning down the first 72 hours as best we could so long ago.  After that, it didn't matter as the deed was long done.  Nothing could change what they had already done by the time Beth arrived.  Too late.

And it is what it is and just what it appears to be.

JMO, of course.

 ::MonkeyHaHa:: 

Hi Mariloo...I agree Paulus was tipped off. He came out with a phone in his hand...Still working through Charles Croes time-line for that night from when he was called by Eric Williams.

huh You Not ?  ::MonkeyHaHa::

Gosh, I am being totally ignored,...................................................................................

 ::MonkeyEek::

What have you done with our Always1?

I think some started calling it a Colombian necktie because they thought any cut throat qualified.  Much like the Hatian practice of "necklacing" it doesn't and is very specific.

Not at all sure one could be done with a machete as requires some rather delicate manipulation of the tongue and might whack too deeply to do that.

But there was no original report of any suspected Colombian activity in this regard and the wife was arrested.  Of course, it was not originally reported as a murder and when we asked why, were told it was "just a domestic thing" which was very interesting.

That certainly sent up red flags on the one murder in the last twenty years aspect.

Hahahahahahhaha.  Oh, I am still here, there is just more to me than finger nail polish and clothes.  Love you Mum.

Kermie...I will play...Hop on over to Shango and help me work out what I know and who is who!

That riddle s costing me sleep!

BUMP just in case anyone wants to read the actual report

Hi Mum, and that was when he finally came out.  He was hiding behind some bushes.  If it was not so sad, it would be funny.

Oh cool, Kermit is here, maybe he will tell me if I am on the right track, or...................................................

Whew!... I was worried! ::MonkeyHaHa::

There was a meeting of some international committee on something or other.  Maybe environmental or some such, don't recall now but was just the plane Chaney normally used.

We found what it was at the time but I don't recall now.  Think his ticker has limited his travel for several years now.  Doesn't get too far from major medical centers.

LaLamom, hopefully this will help clear up. throw out what you think you know and just follow the truth


(http://img369.imageshack.us/img369/6913/silvettigroupfinaljh0.jpg)
March 8, 2008 CAPS POSTED - "I hope tomorrow we will have the final links into a final resolution about the pond. This coming week is THE DAY.
Me and J & W and the C's are all in agreement now that it must be there.
scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2680.560

J = John Silvetti

grave robbers

(http://img376.imageshack.us/img376/9796/gretacage3wo9.jpg)

(http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/3038/datelinediversfromarubaqm2.jpg)

Greta van Sustern: "He's lying
(http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/3312/datelinehansmosonboardpsv7.jpg)

COVER-UP
(http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/3785/dolfrichardsonxo9.jpg)
DOLPH RICHARDSON

Aruba divers arriving. WHY? Where are the American's? Where is Tim Miller? Where is Hodges? Where is Dateline?
Who was in charge - go back and start at the beginning of this post.
(http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/9251/datelinenotthatfaroffshvh5.jpg)
(http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/3928/fromrvpersistencehotelsnm4.jpg)
(http://img399.imageshack.us/img399/869/shoeinsidecagecg8.jpg)
1 tennis shoe inside cage

(http://img367.imageshack.us/img367/9862/tennisshoefromcagexc0.jpg)


Joran: "She's in the ocean
(http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/4632/joranshewontbefoundmo4.jpg)

Look at the distance from shore.


(http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/2392/datelinetrapbo2.jpg)

private eye March 20, 2008
Kyle I specifically mentioned the blue denim and the fact that would be the material of which the skirt was made,
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2721.440

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Hans Mos
Dolph Richardson
Aruban divers
John Silvetti

COVER-UP

Pin that frog down and will check back later for results.

Make him talk or croak or whatever!

Yes it is actually a phrase originally penned by Somerset Maugham about Monte Carlo, but if the shoe fits........ ::MonkeyCool::

mocking me eh?

It ain't easy being green.

Not touching that post with a ten foot pole.

see the posts I've given to you.
drop the diversion stuff fed to you.

Not me Kermit, I am hanging on to your every word.

Hello Miss Always 1,
I may not always answer you,
but I always am thinkn' bout you

Thank you Miss Always 1.

Kermit please reply specifically to my post from yesterday....thanks. What had me most confused was not your crab cage story or any of that.  What had me confounded was your assertion about Caps and Kyle.  I still am confused on it, but it is possible that I have simply misunderstood your post.  I was busy looking for bugs...just in case I needed to feed you.

Let me say this and I will stand by this until someone gives me concrete evidence to prove otherwise.  I know my limb may be shaky to some of you...but I truly know this to be sound.  If Kermit can prove otherwise I will offer a basket of juicy bugs and Miss. Piggy for the weekend.


Caps is not related to Jossy.  Caps is not related to John Silvetti.  Caps sole work on the Monserat pond had nothing to do with either one of these men.  I know who Caps is and I also would bet that Kermit does too at this point.  Caps last name is interesting and does indeed rings bells with anyone that knows about this case in depth but he is not related to these men. As I said we have become sidetracked again by no fault of anyone's...it's just what we do.

Now the rest of you must give me proof that I am wrong otherwise I stand by my story.

croak Miss Anna.

Really????  I am flattered, more than you know.  But will you tell me if I am complety offbase by thinking this is more sinister than drugs, porn, or more valuable than oil????

Who are the diversions?  Several family members truly do not believe Natalee was ever thrown in the ocean.  I am interested who the posters are that are creating diversions?

Aw!  That's so sweet. ::MonkeyWink::

Blonde, GREAT JOB!!!!!

Thank you so much for blowing up the human bull dog's face & now red shirt really does NOT resemble Silvetti that was from the tv video screen capture but yet it was confirmed by kermit that it was indeed Silvetti, wasn't it?  So now am not so sure we have the identity of red shirt at all.

I never said Caps was related to Jossy or John Silvetti.
Yes I know who Caps is. I know what he looks like.
The rest I am going to be somewhat evasive about, for reasons I'm sure you understand.
Hope that answers your questions.

Why it's mariloo.

ribbit

don't think we've met
hope you are eating enough bananas.

You know if you think about it.  If I told you I put someone in the Ocean, you would think there is no way to recover evidence or body and probably go on about your business, but if I told you I had buried her somewhere that no one would ever find her, the search would continue.  That is my little mind's way of thinking.  Jvds has said she is in the ocean and that would be the best way to rid themselves of a body, right??  Why does the family believe so strongly he did not throw her into the ocean?

What about Me???

HA HA HA. I don't know which members you are talking too.
Oh you mean Robin, Dave's wife? HA HA HA HA.
No comment.

 ::MonkeyLaugh:: ::MonkeyLaugh:: ::MonkeyLaugh:: ::MonkeyLaugh:: ::MonkeyLaugh::

Yes lets start rumors.

 ::MonkeyLaugh:: ::MonkeyLaugh:: ::MonkeyLaugh:: ::MonkeyLaugh::

Come on Kermit, you know what I mean>......

Heck, I was trying to eat a tuna sandwich and enjoy some Chicken Gumbo soup and there is Grannytoad writing about whacking heads off with a machete and that she at age 10 could whack a coconut off or something and I was looking at my chicken Gumbo and then there was the thoughts of a true Colombian Bow-tie, then I thought of O.J. poor Wife and he thought he gave her one too.  ::MonkeyConfused::

Christ.. Well Heck ::MonkeyEek::

Not one of us had seen the way the poor fellow Rene was murdered..
My last thought on this is, " Rest his soul " and I do not believe his wife murdered him
I want to talk with her.

As far as politics goes..
Hugo has the elections rigged again in Venezuela ..
But His exwife is running against him. Just Another day in South American Politics.  ::MonkeyTongue::

Not really.  Thanks anyway.

I'll tell you why.
Because MIP Renfro Reality etc have all been busy early on getting them to believe that Natalee was taken off the island and sold into sex slavery. It's a lie. They posted some porn video etc. claiming it was Natalee. Again, it was a lie.

Everything has been done to protect Joran and his father.
Think about why that is.

You're most welcome.

It's all I can reveal at the moment.
I do relish having my frog legs in tact.

I was not given a reason why this person thinks this...they were very adamant.  I trust their thinking since they would be privy to things I am not.  I suppose it does not matter really. 

Funny you should mention that.  How did they (Mr Pink?} get an exact replica of Natalee's shirt in the one porn movie????

Beto

Jaime Alberto CARRASQUILIA CACERES, born in Columbia on April 25 1985, E.P.I.(Sector Economico) and living ****** ***** ****** *** on Aruba. His statement goes as follows.
he said this :To your question as to who "Andre" is, I answer you that he is a friend of Joran's. He lives in Palm beach. I do not know what car he drives. According to me he goes to the "Mon Plaisier College". I don't have Andre's mobile telephone number and I do not know his last name either. I can point out to you the house where Andre lives. I further have to remark that Joran goes to casino with Andre. Andre has a younger brother called "Arthur".

who is this Andre ?

Andre dos Santos

Lala, you are the all wise scribe, Kermie didn't answer me, does that mean I am so off base, it is not funny???

I guess what confuses me is we have a witness that has passed a polygraph two times about the pond issue.  The pond was drained and people want to think it was because of Tromp...which it was not.  The pond was drained in a manner that kept those that were willing to pay to have it drained out of the loop.  Joran and Paulus are both placed there on the morning in question.  What other reason would that be done had it not had something to do with Natalee? 

Joran pointed to the ocean so often that it told me there was little to it.  After learning what I did about the cage in the ocean and the size of it...I knew that you could not take that heavy cage out in a small boat.  I think what has me scratching my head are the sudden implications on diversions.  I have always thought that CC was indeed there to watch and learn to pass things on to those that needed to know. Yet, we went from talking pond and creidble witness to who stole the stuff from the cage in the ocean so fast that I am still dizzy over it. I am sure it's just me. 

The picture of the lone guy on a boat looks like he has a body laying there.  NOW I know I am
going crazy. ::MonkeyWaa:: ::MonkeyConfused::

I just cannot get over him hiding in the bushes.  I firmly believe he has more to do with this than appears.

A PIMP

++++++++


The intense need by Joran to place himself amongst many of his friends, and in front of surveillance cameras for the remainder of the night is evidenced in the following statements.

JOHN Q KELLY SAYS JORAN AND GUIDO WEAVER WERE TOGETHER FROM 7:00 - 2:00 AM NOTE THAT THE FIRST PLACE KELLY MENTIONS IS THE WYNDHAM... ANDRE STATED JORAN DID NOT GET THERE UNTIL 8:30

KELLY: For the life of me, I don't know, Greta. You know, this is someone who, the evening of the morning Natalee disappeared, he was with Joran the entire evening, you know, there at the Windham Hotel, the Aruba Grand, then over at the Radisson from, you know, 7:00 in the evening until 2:00 the next morning, they were out in his car and doing different things. And he certainly should have at least been a person of interest that they should have nailed down all the questions that they wanted to ask him back the beginning of June. http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,196661,00.html

ANDRE SAYS JORAN ARRIVED AT THE WYNDHAM AT 8:30

I asked Joran if he was on his way to the Wyndham hotel casino to play in the Texas Hold’m tournament. Joran told me he was on his way there. Around 20.30, Joran walked in to the Casa Blanca casino of the Wyndham hotel
June 20, 2005 - Andre Dos Santos

JORAN SAYS THE TOURNAMENT STARTED AT 8:15

I met Andre and his dad at the Casino. Andre and myself stayed inside the casino and walked around until the tournament started. The tournament started at 20.15 pm.
JVDS 6-14

ANDRE SAYS IT TOOK A LONG TIME AFTER JORAN ARRIVED FOR THE TOURNAMENT TO START

I do remember that Joran walked in by himself. I walked up to Joran and I greeted him. I saw that Joran then registered to play Texas Hold’m poker. I must say that it lasted very long before the Tournament started I saw that Joran played black-jack during this time. Three Card but I now no longer remember which of the two
June 20, 2005 - Andre Dos Santos

http://74.125.45.132/search?q=cache:WE3Oh4YHsjYJ:nataleesfreebirds.blogspot.com/2007/10/in-face-of-evil-may-30-2005_19.html+andre+dos+santos+aruba&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=6&gl=us&client=firefox-a

?? OK   I am sorry.. What is a HLW ?
T/A

I met Andre and his dad at the Casino. Andre and myself stayed inside the casino and walked around until the tournament started. The tournament started at 20.15 pm.
JVDS 6-14

Was Twitty around Joran when this was going on ??

High Level Waste

Was andre also in the casino that evening ?

Andre dos Santos and his brother Arthur dos Santos

Nfreebirds :

Could Paulus have simply tried to use a “deposit” as his excuse for being gone from work on May 30 2005 at around 10:00 am?

Could he have read an official statement given to police by Andre Dos Santos about Joran’s winnings from May 30th, and tried to confuse the issue by saying Joran had won that money on May 29th instead – thus giving himself a plausible reason for going to the bank on May 30th at 3:30 pm?

Paulus was arrested 3 days after Andre gave his statement to authorities, and according to Aruban attorney David Kock, defense attorneys were receiving such statements within 3 or 4 days of them being given.

Did Paulus use information from Andre’s statement to then mislead investigators about his true reason for being at the bank and speaking with Ruth Dijkhoff at 3:30 pm on May 30th?

Lala's?????????????????????????????????

I still believe Natalee died at the van der sloot home. To me it seems obvious, the lack of a proper search of the residence, why?

the fact that when they dutch came to investigate, the first place they dug is the van der sloot home, why?

She may have been brought to the beach but the main crime scene has to be the van der sloot house.

Joran is being protected because he is protecting alot of people, first and foremost his father.

Aruba's dump aquired I think a pair of the oldold refinery crackers' incinerators. The more modern ones in use at the refinery don't do people. We researched that summer of '05, so forgetit. It feels strange going over this same stuff three years later.

Anna and I, we still believe in KISS: keep it simple, stupid.

I never paid any attention to the white slavery tales, no time for fantasy fiction. No I don't know what those eyesoles did with her, Aruban/Dutch sensibilities about sanctity of and respect for life seems much different than our values. Dumped asea? Oh, possibly. An old Aruban suggested a cesspool.  

is there a "Andre " statement about joran's winnings ?  

Yes????????

Did Kermie avoid my question because I am sssssssssssssssssssssssssssssooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo wrong???

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub5/andresantos.jpg)


(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub5/arthursantos.jpg)

Of course he read all those statements.  That is a known fact by many in Natalee's family.  Paulus had access to all of it.

Andre's statement:

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=310.0

You didn't give him enough bugs.  I have no idea.  I still get the feeling that Kermit is saying Silvetti aided in a cover up. I however, know for a fact that Beth has very high regard for John.  He was the person that helped bring Caps' witness over here for the polygraph with the aid of Tim Miller...so I am still confused as to exactly what Kermit is thinking here. I just gave you facts as I know them...no hints or confusion in what I said. I am having great difficulty trying to sort all of this information.

Mariloo, follow me here. You stated that you thought Paul exceptionally unsettled by the time Beth & group arrived late Monday night.

We all know what Paul was like after that time. That's why I questioned your perception about so early. If you were talking through your hat, say so.

Take a look at this picture again and tell me if you all see a body (i have it circled):

The bank

Paul's Statement :
 I can also remember that around 10.00 hours I went
to the C.M.B. bank. There were long cues at the bank so I left without
having made any transaction and went back to work. I left my workplace
at approximately 15.00 hours. I arrived at the bank at approximately 15.30.
I had gone to the C.M.B. bank that is situated in Noord.

To your question whether I went to the bank without stopping
or going anywhere else, I can state the following. I at least cannot
remember having been anywhere else. I think I went directly to the bank.
At the bank I talked to Ruth DIJKHOFF. At the bank I deposited the
money that Joran said that he had won in the “Free Tournament in
the Holiday Inn” on the 29th of May 2005. It was approximately
500 Aruban guilders. Joran had given me 100 guilders because he
had taken over my place in the tournament.
After depositing the money I went home.


Paul went to his work at 8 > 20 minutes drive   and at 10 o'clock to the bank ?  ::MonkeyConfused::
Why does he say that Joran won a Tournament  in the Bank ?
What is the legal age for gambling in Aruba ? IS he proud ? not ashamed that his son vistit the Casino ?
He use the name Ruth as a kind of witness ?
And why  2 times to the bank to bring 100 guilders ?

Why was there a Need to go 2 times to the bank ?

He had to arrange something mysterious ?
About his visit at the Bank that night ?

Maybe so, I was watching the interview at the gate on tv.  Do you remember how unsettled he was?  There was something more to this.  I still have a visual in my head.  Why would he be stooping down trying to hide behind bushes, IF HE WAS INNOCENT AND THIS IS HIS FIRST KNOWLEDGE OF THE MISSING NATALEE???  The slimeball knew something right then, had been a party to something or SOMETHING.  It was obvious to me.  Do I have a crystal ball?  No.  Do I have gut feelings?  Yes.  He would not try to hide in the bushes just because of something somebody had accused his pretty little boy of doing the night before.  HE KNEW BECAUSE HE WAS A PART OF.  That is what I believe talking thru my hat or otherwise.  I want to go over there and strangle him as I know Beth did.  This is JUST MY MONKEY OPINION.  NOT A GUARANTEED SCENERIO.

no

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub5/datelinediversfromarubaqm2-1.jpg)

It looks like a guy bending over with a gun to his back.

Lala - email please.

O/T

Two new filings in the Dr. Phil/K2 arena:

11/17/2008 Brief (RE THEIR CAUSE OF ACTION, ETC. )
Filed by Attorney for Plaintiff/Petitioner

11/17/2008 Proof of Service (RE BRIEF RE CAUSE OF ACTION, ETC. )
Filed by Attorney for Plaintiff/Petitioner

http://www.lasuperiorcourt.org/civilCaseSummary/index.asp?CaseType=Civil

Case # BC363201

is it a fake picture ?

Oh. Mariloo I think I can help with that scenario. What you saw is not 2 AM Tuesday morning, about 24 hours after Natalee was disappeared, in the dead of night, with copcars and Alabamans all around.

I think you've viewed a different scene video'd by FOX some later daytime, in broad daylight, when Beth and Greta went by I think maybe about a week later, maybe two. That may be earlier of the same day that Beth learned that Paul was now claiming to have picked Joran up "at 11 PM" to her surprise, instead of 4 AM like she had in her notes.

The morning Paul was arrested Beth ran into one of the two cops who'd been with the group the night of her arrival, who confirmed that 4 AM is what he'd heard, also. That polisman's statement from that night hasn't shown up YET in the case history, for all I know.

inflatable doll  ::MonkeyLaugh::

Who wrote Grave Robbers on the picture of the trap????

Let me ask this....why would after 3 years a body still be in that good shape at the bottom of the ocean?  It is not a body...at least not Natalee's body.

nanner basket

Here is the Brief filed.  I didn't get the proof of service.  I'm also not putting it into screen captures unless someone really thinks I need to:

Looks like a person naked from the waist up bending over to do something on deck to the right to me.  There is nothing stationary under the chest of the person, to my eye.  Looking at the screen through a magnifying glass.  Apologize if this has already been addressed.

Klaas, is Celes Fabienne Maessen?  Thanks in advance ::MonkeyWink::

Thanks Klaas.

I do think the K2 quoted Aruban law regarding discovery.

who posted that pic ?

I agree and Like Frank believes, I used to believe it was Jorans home..
Too many things have happened since then and it makes me look elsewhere because Everything we have been told is a lie.. For me the arrest oF L.M. was the key to south America..
 He is the dealer known as the boss...He has hurt people and family members to get his money, so says the judge who tried him, The fear man.. The south American connection.
Even if I am wrong,   
 The truth is available someplace through all this smoke.

My father in law was a fireman who always found bodies in burning homes..
He said you cant see anything in the house full of smoke so you just crawl around on your hands and knees and feel around for something crunchy.. L.M. is crunchy  ::MonkeyCool::

Does not look like a body in the video (fullscreen mode), IMO.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/23302471#23302581

I don't think so.  At first I thought Fabienne might be but after the DeVries show aired, the girl on DeVries does not look like Fabienne to me.  Plus, I don't think Fabienne was in the reinactment, we would have known if she had been.

Throughout the last 3.5 years every now & then have thought about the arrest of Pvdstoolscum & have decided that it was to give Pvdstoolscum adequate time to spend with that foul offspring of his Jvdstoolscum, big facade.  Had to spend time prepping the weak minded shore up the misdirection, get a strategy set, explain offspring must "act" that is upset by arrest of Pvdstoolscum, to all, especially the alpoes.

Cowards, always rigging the game & only taking action when the #'s are in their favor.  They take no chances, they rig the game & then act like their winner's.  NOPE A BUNCH OF LOSER'S, NO INTRINSIC VALUE AT ALL, PERVERTS.

I was about to say the same, earlier, but was drawn away from the computer.  Maybe it was a diver, removing his wet suit....

Wreck, can I send you number 800 now??

Perhaps one of the ones that left the island so quickly did the tipping off....just a thought....

you can, but I won't be home for 2 hours.

In the group of pictures that Kermit posted you can see this also in the picture where the boat pulled up to the Persistence.  I still can't tell what it is, but it is there then too.

If you start counting with the pic under Silvetti's Logo, look at number 5; the same thing is there but it looks a little different in the other pic.

Ok, I will catch you then, it's important....

Plus one would have to keep in mind the date of the pic....look at the "color" of the "body"....does it look to have been in the water for a period of time?....

(http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/3038/datelinediversfromarubaqm2.jpg)

this pic is not in the nbc data base - dateline nbc

send it now, I'll respond when I can

I never believed his wife murdered him either.

Well that's interesting Johan....how many minutes will you take to figure it out...about three?.... ::MonkeyHaHa::  Go for it and let us know... ::MonkeyWink::

Gielen with her  Misinfo again  

This week in Nieuwe Revu ( dutch magazine )

(http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh25/johan555/gielen-NRcopy.jpg)

Ok.

Does someone have a link to the latest Greta video people are talking about?

Yes it looks like someone is bent over?

(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/persistence/Dateline.jpg)

http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=9ErLVCnzZQ0

Finally made it home.  I remember many people at the gate.  Beth was standing back.  Two policemen were at the gate and Paulas was on the other side.  I don;t remember who else was on the side with pvds.  I thought and now you have confused my memory.  I will have to go way back and search.  My computer crashed back then and I almost had a hissy fit.  I lost a lot of information.  Almost all of my posts from way back then.  I don't think this was two weeks later.  I believe this was the next day because Beth said something about being too late.  That broke my heart.  I remember this because I thought, "now why does she think that because she just got there.  Anyway, we all know who is the main guilty party.  I always thought Natalee was there at pvds house when the police first arrived and maybe that is why he refused to let anyone in.  Anita did not get there till the next day or so. I cannot remember for sure what day she arrived, the next day or the next.  I believe all the activity at the house was getting rid of any evidence.  I never believed they put Natalee in the well so I am not sure why they could not search there. 

thanks

It looks like a white chair or something under the "body". 

blah, long time no see.

(http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/3038/datelinediversfromarubaqm2.jpg)


(http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/9251/datelinenotthatfaroffshvh5.jpg)

I took my own screen shot it's the life preserver 
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/persistence/ale.jpg)

That is what I thought all along -- but everyone made me look again and "see things"! I think it is the Life preserver too.  ::MonkeyCool::

I want to know more about the tennis shoe in the cage.  Did anyone try to look into that?

Corroboration:


If the information of the pond witness having passed 2 polygraphs is accurate (I believe it is) then it makes way for the information about the missing (red vehicle) seat in Paulus’ car.

Joran was seen in the passenger seat and Paulus was identified as the driver; they were cruising slowly down the street as though looking for something.  The passenger seat would be a mess of muck, and possibly blood.  Good reason to get rid of the seat.

If the excuse is used that another seat was ordered . . . people don’t usually remove an old seat before replacing with new one.  Only special circumstances would require removal.

Looks like the missing seat in Paulus’ vehicle could corroborate the pond witness’s information.

IMO only, this cage looks like it's been in the water 10+ years I never saw a tennis shoe.
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/persistence/trap2cy7.gif)

Look at the distance from shore in this picture as compared
to the one Kermit posted with the Hotels in the background.
Those are houses in the background of this picture.
It is not the same location.
This picture if off from the Fishermen's Huts, I think.

Posted by Worldjournier at BFN backup site:

he Natalee Holloway Detailed Timeline new address
Hi Everyone,

Wanted to be sure to let everyone know that even though AOL recently ceased its "Hometown" service, the Natalee Holloway Detailed Timeline, and, our Natalee Holloway vanished in Aruba public file have been successfully uploaded for everyone to the following FTP website's.

Please copy and forward email for everyone in our Natalee network of friends these new links, and, if you want, please add the new timeline link for your Natalee homepages, websites, blogs, forums, etc, for everyone.

Thank You for your help

New address for the Natalee Holloway Timeline Detailing Persons, Places, Outright Lies, & Natalee's Known Kidnapping, Rape, Murder, & Natalee's Corpse Disposal Suspects in Aruba. . . .

http://ftp.hometown.aol.com/worldjournier/NATALEE/NATALEEtimeline.html


New link for the Natalee Holloway vanished in Aruba public file. .

http://ftp.hometown.aol.com/worldjournier/NATALEE

Best Regards, WorldJOURNIER

T ogether
E veryone
A chieves
M ore

WOW, that sure would!  ::MonkeyEek::

Beth, posse, and ALE arrive at the VDS compound in the middle of the night looking for information.

After much commotion, PVDS hesitates to come out.  Why?

Most people I know would want to know why the police were outside the gate wanting to come in. Did the police come often to the VDS compound?

Knowing his son was off gambling on a school night, wouldn't he wonder if something was wrong with Joran?  Maybe Joran was hurt?  Given the number of VDS and other phones, broken, lost, misplaced over the weekend, and on Monday/Tuesday, why ignore the police at the gate?

Maybe something had happened to Anita?  Terrorism in Holland?  Sickness?  Accident?

Most people would think "OMG, something has happened to..." - even if "..." is no longer a child, even if they were in their 60's or something.  I think it's a parent instinct.  A family instinct.  A human instinct.

If not a human instinct, wasn't he concerned that police were there because someone was breaking into one of the buildings on the compound?  Maybe someone stole a VDS car and took it for a joyride?   :smt102

It's also just a nosy thing.  Any time the police or 911 services are at someone's house, a crowd seems to gather.  Who's in trouble?  Someone die?  Someone have a heart attack?  Domestic problem?  What was the crowd thinking at the VDS compound that night?   

I've often wondered if the neighbors were disappeared on Monday for that very reason.  IIRC, they were on 'vacation'...  :shock:

Why wouldn't someone WANT to know why people are at the gate?   :gaah:

The two security guards that were arrested later that week, did the police wait patiently for them to answer the door? 

just my humble opinions

We have seen so much BS thrown at us, we could fertilize all of North America.  The seat may be something we can build upon for more observations.

Exactly!!!!!!  I was beginning to think I was alone with this.   Thank you.  I could not have and did not say it as well.  ::cartwheel::

So right.  I did not even know the seat was missing. ::MonkeyConfused::

Whiskey

I also believe it would be normal to ask the police + into the house (if nothing else, so the neighbors wouldn't hear).  It would have been normal to call the kid and tell him to get home because the police wanted to talk to him.....unless, of course, you didn't want anyone in the house....and the kid needed more time...

A wise Toad point it out the summer of '05.  There was a photo of it, iirc.

That is the way I felt.  Any normal parent would have brought the people in and said something like, "Let me get my shoes and hat and I will help you or let's call my son and get him home right away.  Instead, he tried to hide stooping down behind bushes.  What a coward he is.  That is why I feel so strongly he is the leader of the pack.

Didn't Valentijn post on the internet that night that there was a girl in his bathtub in the main house? The main house was blocked from being searched.

Do you know if this vehicle was ever searched and where it may be now.  In the ocean????? ::MonkeyHaHa::

Oh boy!!!  Visiting Paulas or joran?

Thanks Buckeye and WJ!

It might have been towed around the middle of June.  I'm not sure the vehicles listed (as towed) are the correct vehicles.  (Pardon me, I am a doubter about much.)

Somewhere, there was a photo of a very (very) similar vehicle parked in a driveway.  I wonder what's with that!

dead...in bathtub. I did not see the photo. I always doubted that story/rumor

Who is in the bathtub?  I am confoosed.    ::MonkeyConfused::

How about both?  I have never seen either.  Thanks

What is this ?? I have not seen this internet post..
Do you have a saved post or a link to it ?
T/A

An intact vehicle, SUV-type, white over red.  It looked remarkably like the Sloot vehicle, was parked in a driveway, close to a building with the rear of the car toward the camera.

#65, Brie,

Thanks so much. Boy we sure do have many people who “suddenly lost their cell phones”

Paulus
Sander and all….

Coincidence? Not!!!!

BTW, Brie, many here have posted about Valentijn staing he saw sleeping girl in his bath tub + etc…. Any truth to those comments on Valentijn’s sites???

Many thanks,

j4n!!!!!!

http://74.125.45.132/search?q=cache:UX90-GU1WP0J:scaredmonkeys.com/2008/02/14/natalee-holloway-jossy-mansur-les-levine-filing-of-defense-attorney-for-re-arrest-of-joran-van-der-sloot/+Valentijn+post+on+the+internet+that+night+that+there+was+a+girl+in+his+bathtub&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us

Apparently, it is amazing what you can do with one of those mail ordered blow up human dolls. They must take one along for those long cross water voyages..  ::MonkeyEek::  ::MonkeyLaugh::

You are too funny. ::MonkeyHaHa::

I really thought it was a body when I first saw it and someone said they thought it looked like a gun being held on someone.  It was a gun allright, an airgun.   ::MonkeyLaugh::

Where was the seat?  The DUMP?  If so, there might have been some nerves frazzled over connecting a found, messy seat to a vehicle with a missing seat.

AHATA?

http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=eHt5FjRRtQo

PVS Car with chunks missing
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/Arrests%20in%20the%20case/dad43xk.jpg)

Aruba Hotel and Tourism Authority

Blonde, I think the above photo was of the blue/gray car (w/chunks missing.)

IIRC, in that car there was a bunch of junk on the dash, and I wondered if the junk concealed more missing pieces.

I think the SUV photo was a side shot, or from driver's side toward rear.

He really looks quite the psychopath here doesn't he?

A-1 - great infromation about the bird on the wire.  You need to spend more time with us over in Shango.


Something dawned on me this afternoon and I couldn't do anything about it until tonight.  Kyle told us that from the beach on January 11th and 12th, he watch the Coast Guard ships at the trap site.  Is this why the Coast Guard ships were there?  I wonder if the trap was connected to the Caso Domino?


38     Natalee Holloway / LCD Archive / Re: Natalee Case Discussion #744 3/19 -    on: March 19, 2008, 03:21:31 PM

After the Jan 7th dive, I was scheduled to take a short break on land, staying at the Holiday Inn between Jan 9th and returning to the Persistence on Jan 14th.  I had been working steadily since Dec 15th and needed a break.  It was a coincidence I was around to be walking the beach to observe what I saw with the vessel at or near the site on the 11th and 12th of Jan.  I don't know for certain if there is anything to it.  When asked if they were diving the site, they replied: "we don't have dive capabilities".  


9     Natalee Holloway / LCD Archive / Re: Natalee Case Discussion #775 11/16/08 thru    on: November 18, 2008, 09:43:06 AM

I am catching up with all the post....in this section....


look at my findings carefully, [on the cage "it is Escudero Cage."] Colombia drug trafficer.

I will say again...there was 2 cases mixed in to one. --->. to confuse the issue.


cage (400lbs) to havy for 2 people "AND" to big for just a scull. "AND" area of he cage in the water too deep "AND" need a crane to lift it and to drop it. Do not compute with the available time-line to deal with a post mortum body.

Thank you SS.  Did you get my email.

 ::MonkeyHaHa::  Klaas usually posts this, but I had to go find it.

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub5/Sweatyrunningman-new2.gif)

::MonkeyLaugh:: ::MonkeyLaugh:: ::MonkeyLaugh::

I love it..  ::MonkeyLaugh::

Shame on those supposedly hungry people wanting attention.

Any word if Greta will cover Nat tonight?

Kermit - can you help us a little with the cast of characters in your cover up picture.  The only ALE people that we have been able to identify are Dolf Richardson and Hans Mos.  Do you know who the rest are?  How about the guy to the right of Dolf who looks like Groucho Marx?

(I'm not Kermit, but . . .)

That looks like "Papito" Comenencia.

Did we figure out the mean looking one all the way to the right?  Someone thought maybe Jules Sambo, but didn't look like it to me.

John Silvetti - red shirt
Dolf Richardson
Hans Mos

Who are the others?

There were nuts back then too yelling same thing.  I always thought it would take a real dumbass to dump a body anywhere so close to your home.  Never thought about the well water.  I assumed they were talking about the cesspool as you call it. 

Hmmmmmm, cesspool --- don't recall that suggested before!!!!  ::MonkeyCool::  ::MonkeyWink::

Do you remember a lonnnnng time ago when someone was following Beth around the island?  Scarfaced looking guy?  That's who he looks like to me.  I can't even remember where I saw his picture.  Am I losing it?   ::MonkeyEek::