Scared Monkeys Discussion Forum

Whether it's an "open" blog or not...folks are gonna copy what they want to and post it where they want to....if it ain't up for grabs...don't put it on the internet....anywhere....

tadaaaaaaa  ::MonkeyTongue::

I got locked out - first time for me. 

Kermit, thanks for answering but I was not referring to you but to Kyle or maybe the Persistance to recoup some finances on the trip and search.

Beth Holloway: Not knowing is-- is-- that's the daily torture.

Chris Hansen: What was it like for you to, once again, have a setback?

Dave Holloway: That's probably about the time that-- the chest pains intensified to an extreme. I mean, how many times can I take this?

Beth Holloway: You know, it's a disappointment. But, you have to look at the magnitude and the sacrifices being made even to get to that point.

And so her parents keep searching, hoping that somewhere off the coast of Aruba, a boat called the Persistence, may bring them an answer -- and peace.

Dave Holloway: If she's there, they'll find her. If they don't find her, we did-- we did the very best we could do, no question about it.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23301056/page/6/

Beth doesn't sound like she knows

Thank you bleachedblack.

oceanexploration has emailed me.
He wants me to stop posting on SM about this.

I agree Lorain

Your apology is accepted magnolia.

vms yours will be too.

Is Beth and Dave aware of this information?  I sure hope so.

Question Kermit!Do we know what the chain of command was for anything that was found by the persistence in terms of evidence,pictures,video?Has to be a chain of command like a Police Department you would think with only certain people having access to the "Evidence".Am i wrong?

If there has been a cover up, do Beth and Dave know about what was covered up?

(http://inlinethumb10.webshots.com/37257/2603368960095153008S425x425Q85.jpg)

The FBI were NOT, I repeat NOT, given ALL the evidence from the cage.

The cover-up and corruption is The Aruban gov't/polis/officials just like everyone has said.


I know EVERYONE is sick of the lies.
I am too.
I want to think about it just a tad bit more.
Then I'll come back and give you my decision.
I don't know that I'll do any good or not by giving you the information.
I DO know evil exists where there is no truth.

I want to do what is right.
I can see that oceanexploration is not going too.

Please, those who do know me and trust me, have faith.
I promise I'll do what is right.

And for those who hate me, called me a liar or any other names.
Go eat a juicy fly or a bug.

Beth is.
I can personally attest to it.

That is good enough for me then.

So you are still considering posting even though Ocean asked you not to?....hmmm..

Thanks for the answer Kermit.  Would you like a fly  ::MonkeyHaHa::

When did the Dirtypolice obtain evidence that wasn't turned over to the FBI?Again there must be a chain of command?

It is Dolf Richarson who is in charge of the investigation.
I know that he waited some time before he even sent what was called the material.
So could he have switched it? I don't know.

But look at Dolph Richardson and Hans Mos.
AND the Aruban divers that were on board.
BUT and I am going to say this ONLY ONCE.
The Aruban divers, nor Hans Mos, nor Richardson were aware of what I may reveal to you.
THEY have no idea.

That is important because it reveals the cover-up.

Well I imagine it is the blue denim material that was not given to the FBI to be tested that private eye alluded to and Kyle got really upset and asked to speak to him off the board and not on it.  We have not heard from Private eye really since that time.

YES.

I'll be waiting right here for you Kermie....and for your answer.........

(http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa307/deedeeperry66/miss_piggy5.jpg)

John Q. Kelly too.

Not fair. All I can offer him is a Blue Moon. ::MonkeyLaugh::

Oceanexploration

Re: Natalee Case Discussion #744 3/19 -
« Reply #201 on: March 19, 2008, 08:21:47 PM »

We had little option other than to have the Aruban dive division recover the samples and bring them back under their care.  Remember we are Americans working in Aruban waters, subject to their laws, invitation, and blessing.  Our hands are tied for the most part. I personally was extremely uncomfortable with the chain of custody, being that we weren't a part of it, but I was powerless to do anything about it.   The samples were photographed in detail by one Aruban diver and the other two investigated the contents of the trap, the dimensions, the rigging, and what surrounded the trap.  From the video, it looked like they did a diligent and careful job with the samples and the underwater photography.  I don't know who has these pictures, but I must assume ALE.



private eye (Beth Holloway's Brother)

Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
« Reply #499 on: April 09, 2008, 12:39:50 AM »

If I understood Kyle correctly, and that would be that the Arubans retrieved and possessed all finds, not sharing anything with the crew, then that effort was a waste of time and effort. The only thing it could have accomplished was to locate additional evidence for the Arubans to destroy. I am not sure if that was the protocol out of Aruba's waters though. The effort was superb, but the game was fixed:)

sounds like you are right on.

Ah, my Miss Piggy.
Now there is a woman who is filled with grace and wouldn't hurt a fly.

I will wait for your answer too Kermit, (and the answer to my email).

Withholding evidence to your own government is not, in my book, legal.
But that is just me. Maybe I'm a bad undercover frog.
 ::MonkeyCool::

I didn't rec' an email always.

But I don't want to stay here and make it seem as though I'm doing this for some stupid reason.
I honestly want to consider every move.
In my heart, I think it is the right thing to do.
In my soul, I think it is the right thing to do.
It may not bring anything good, but at least I know I tried.

 ::MonkeyDance::  ::MonkeyDance::  ::MonkeyDance::

Tamikosmom posted;


Hmm this is a very interesting exchange you bring foward here. I do recall reading this at the time and my hinky radar going off..........

Kermit said..
"evil exists where there is no truth."


Evil exists even when there is truth.. ::MonkeyEek::

But if we know the Truth, THEN Good can get the edge on, and then overcome Evil.
Good is stronger then Evil and the law is generally designed by and for the Good of all..
Which is a nice bat to hold while beating Evil down.
If Evil keeps it all hidden, then Good has its eyes blinded in the fight .. of
" Good Versus Evil "
Hiding the Truth is Evils Most Powerful Weapon..

It is also how a Con Artist works..
No ..No..I did not say anything about the M clan.. Nope..  ::MonkeyNoNo:: ::MonkeyTongue:: ::MonkeyHaHa::
jmho

For over 3 1/2 years Monkeys have upheld Beth Holloway's words and actions.  Has Beth ever given us any reason not to trust that her motives are to further the cause of justice for her daughter.

If the FBI does not want pertinent information regarding the case revealed ... then that information should not be revealed.  If the timing is deemed not right for Beth Holloway to share ... then trust Natalee's mother ... the timing is not right.

Janet

Thanks Kermit...Now what about Freddy? ::MonkeyHaHa::

Janet - I'm inclined to agree with you on this. 

My mind is thinking in terms of maybe a reverse type of sting.Evidence comes up.Take some of the evidence.Let Ale,Mos,Richardson,as well as others say nothing was found then the USA can say well this is what was found and tested via FBI.What say you now ARUBA???Maybe they're working their way up the ladder and need to let the rats put themselves into the trap unknowingly???Crazy thoughts will all the info.Smack this Monkey outta the Tree for a minute if that's to crazy...

I think you're a great undercover frog Kermit.  Right is right, and wrong is wrong.  Simple as that.

Tamikosmom wrote;

Beth is everything Cindy Anthony is not.........

I have always trusted the mother.

Hi Kermit.  It has been a while ...

I have read you words several times and ... I fail to comprehend the meaning.

Could you please explain.

Thanks

Janet

I agree, and I'm thinking of the posts in the last couple of days as to how at peace Beth seemed when the first DeVries' show aired.

I agree bb.  I know we should not put any person on a pedestal.  We are all fallible.  However ... in my opinion ... Beth Holloway is one amazing woman.

Janet

I thought we all knew there was stuff withheld in that search?  That was something Kyle clearly said to Private Eye.  How does the ALE withholding evidence or information relate to Silvetti and Schaefer being American Traitors? 

I have read everything posted today and for the life of me...I can not relate any of this fuss to the first stuff Kermit kept saying...John was helping ALE...Kyle was involved...John is related to Caps...Schaefer was only looking for oil....I have truly missed the point.  I thought we were going to get proof that John Silvetti was paid...worked for...or something with Hans Mos and ALE and that Kyle knew all about it and that it was not a journey to find Natalee but to drum up money from oil profits.

I knew this was a distraction...and if the whole thing was over those photos of the denim...that has long been resolved.  Heck, that photo is no secret...Private Eye told us all about it. LOL 

Now, can we go back to the pond witness?  :roll:

Beth said the other night on Greta's as an afterthought that she would rather like to see Joran in a Thai prison and laughed.  She knew he would be better served in a Thai prison than in an Aruban prison.  Maybe this is all a sting to get the truth out about the LE and corrupt government and have JVDS and PVDS beg to tell the truth so they can get him back in Aruba. jmo

Beth is truly amazing and I so admire her for all she has done for Natalee.  She did say she would be Natalee's voice for the rest of her life if that is what it takes.  AND she is by golly.

What pond witness?

Not distracted here! ::MonkeyHaHa::

Can ANYBODY tell me that Dave Holloway & Beth Holloway are on equal ground & have, in addition to continue, to exchange all information obtained by either one with each other on an ongoing basis?

Now of course that would mean if one is able to answer the above question they have knowledge of the family communication directly, am fighting a fever, so please understand am not operating 100% in organizing my thoughts.

I agree as well.  As long as Beth and John Q. know.  Now if things go further south, as in Mos proclaiming that Joran is innocent and the case can't be solved, then I'll change my mind.   ::MonkeyWink:: ::MonkeyEek::

I read and enjoy everyone's posts.  I rely on my intuition and discernment because I trust myself.  Whatever anyone here is comfortable sharing is fine with me, as long as it's appropriate, and the mods manage that quite well. 

I will never demand to know something from anyone.  People usually know when to share and when to stay quiet, especially those in sensitive positions. 

I appreciate all the contributions and hard work here, and respect everyone's opinions, ideas, and theories.

I'm here to support Natalee and her loved ones.  This story belongs to them.

 ::MonkeyCool::

I am so afraid that after Greta spews Urine's latest fairy tale that nobody will pay any attention to the pond witness.

I must have a fever too because I don't understand the question.

RV PERSISTENCE ARUBA NATALEE HOLLOWAY CASE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8GKU7VEcSM

Uuuum, what?

I suppose the pond witness is no longer valid since it was Tim and John that made arrangements for he/she to travel to Texas to take those two polygraphs.  Well, now where does that leave us?

I don't believe in the pond witness.

No, lala's I'm the one with the fever.  I know what I want to ask just can't seem to put it right.  It would seem that information would be provided to Dave Holloway & Beth Holloway in separate meetings &/or phone calls &/or letters/e-mails as they are not in the same location but should be informed as equals.  So if a source is dealing with either one & not both is that information then passed on by the party that has been informed directly to the one that has not, regardless of content?

Is that any better?

I thought Tim is the one that met with the witness.  Does that mean Tim was lying to us too? 

Are you asking if the lines of communication are open to both Dave and Beth the same and do they share information between each other?  I kinda doubt it at this point. 

Then how are they part of the cover up?  O lordy!! This is really confusing.  Are you guys sure we are not in the Shango thread?

Kermit was very clear about Tim Miller not being implicated in this.

Signing out now, before I say something I shouldn't.

Beth Twitty's response to the Joran/Greta interview ...

Beth Twitty
On the Record w/ Greta
March 21, 2006

VAN SUSTEREN: Now, you and I have spent an awful lot of time together, talked together. You know my entire staff. Was it difficult for you that we sat down with him?

TWITTY: Oh, no. No, I mean, I think that any time that we can get Joran speaking, I think that he only incriminates himself every time. And you know, I've heard his offer that he is willing to sit down with myself or with Dave or the family, and absolutely, I would do it. I would go to Holland. I'd meet him wherever he would choose to. But you know, Greta, I would have to have one polygraph expert with me because, you know, just having Joran talk without any type of repercussions — I mean, I think those days are over for him. You know, I'd like to get to the bottom of where his lies are, and I think that a polygraph expert could help do that.


Beth Twitty's response to the Primetime interview ...

Beth Twitty
NANCY GRACE
February 23, 2006

TWITTY: ... I`m just glad that he is coming out and speaking on camera because I heard a clip that you -- a sound bite earlier, and he does -- when he tells one lie, more evolve. And it just is mind-boggling how we are all just witnessing this from Joran.

Thank you lala's, YES that is what I was trying to get at.

I spent about 45 minutes or so watching this and Kyle's vids after Kermit & OE's exchange.   On this one, I kept thinking about the date, but haven't been able to put it in any kind of order in my mind.

Yes, TM, you're right.  He said that whatever happened was when Tim was "taken" off Persistence.

So who funded the search effort?  Financial problems were there before the ship set sail and that is documented here.  Did the Dutch fund the trip and then pulled a fast one on the Americans?  The original ship that was supposed to have made the trip was sold to the NL and (correct me if I am off base on this) they had to use the Persistence.  If Schafer (I think) had financial problems before this trip took place how was his company able to fund this trip?  Was Paulus involved in funding this trip with the NL?  Greta keeps saying it is bad news for Joran and his father.  Did Paulus have his hands in this?  JMO

No need to sign out.  It us just my opinion that I don't believe in him.  Just my thoughts.

I meant the pond witness that Caps claims exists...not Tim and the ocean search.  I know Tim is not involved in anything sinister with the Persistence.

What I got out of that the 3 times I read it...The Arubans have no clue what Kermit would be going to tell?? They didn't know???

To whom don't you believe?Kermit or Tim?

So why did Kermit link them all together with John Silvetti?  I know I read that...

John
ALE
Mos

American Traitors

OK, I hallucinated it all...I must have.

Mum - that's the way I read it, too.   ::MonkeyConfused::

No clue Lala's...just what I got from Kermit's post...stumbling around in the dark...confused?

Where Dirtypolice on the Persistence on a continuous basis when in Aruban waters?If not who called them to come to the boat and at what times?This may have already been asked but please refresh my memory!Thanx in advanced..

It is Dolf Richarson who is in charge of the investigation.
I know that he waited some time before he even sent what was called the material.
So could he have switched it? I don't know.

But look at Dolph Richardson and Hans Mos.
AND the Aruban divers that were on board.
BUT and I am going to say this ONLY ONCE.
The Aruban divers, nor Hans Mos, nor Richardson were aware of what I may reveal to you.
THEY have no idea.

That is important because it reveals the cover-up.

************


OK, so if Richardson and Mos had no idea what was going on, it had to be someone else in ALE who did know.  Am I even in the right ball park, let alone on the correct base?

Maybe there were Dutch on board? ::MonkeyConfused::

Why was there an IMMEDIATE "thumbs down" from the Aruban divers to the crew of the Persistence.  The fabric that was found in the the trap had yet to be forensically analyzed?  Apparently ... it took the FBI Laboratory almost a month to make this determination.

Janet

__________


The search for Natalee Holloway
It's the story you haven't heard: the tale of two parents who, even now, willgo anywhere -- and endure anything -- to find answers.

TRANSCRIPT
By Chris Hansen
Correspondent
NBC News
updated 5:20 p.m. PT, Fri., Feb. 22, 2008

Tim Miller: I stepped on the boat and said “Natalee we're coming to get you.” Now we're finally coming to get you. And I still believe that from the bottom of my heart. She's out here and now we're on our way.

Over the holiday season, the crew of the persistence worked day and night to survey the ocean floor and look for targets that could hold the key to finding Natalee.

On Christmas Eve sonar pictures revealed what looked like a large trap, almost exactly where Tim Miller theorized it would be.

And on Dec. 29 the crew dropped a remote operated vehicle, or ROV, into the water to get a closer look.

Tim Miller: It looked like a skull. Still looks like a skull.  


<snipped>

On Dec. 30, off the coast of Aruba, divers from the Aruban police force and the research vessel Persistence were about to make a crucial dive on a promising target in the search for Natalee Holloway.

The researchers had discovered a fish trap about 90 feet below the surface in almost the exact spot search expert Tim Miller had theorized Natalee’s body might be.
 
Team leader Tim Trahan suited up to join the Aruban police divers. As Tim Miller wished him well, the divers hit the water and the ROV was sent down to capture what would happen for everyone watching on board.

(On the boat)

Brandon: We have visual on divers and target.

Slowly the divers worked their way down to the trap. They had been instructed to give a thumbs up or thumbs down.  The atmosphere in the survey room was tense, and nerves were raw as Miller, the Aruban authorities and the crew of the Persistence waited for word of what exactly was in the trap. The divers approached the target and signaled above. And then...

(On the boat)

No it's thumbs down. Negative, not it.

Crushing disappointment.

(On the boat)

Tim Miller: Divers coming up right now. I don't know it looked as promising today as it did last night or before.

Miller: Nothing?

Trahan: No.

Chris Hansen: That had to be a crushing blow.

Tim Miller: It was a crushing blow.
 
Now Tim Miller had to deliver that same crushing blow to Natalee’s parents.

Chris Hansen: How hard is it for you to dial their numbers and tell them that this in fact is not the break in the case we-- we hoped for?

Tim Miller: Probably one of the hardest calls I ever made. Probably one of the hardest … probably should have never made the first one. But everything looked right at the time.


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23301056/page/4/
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23301056/page/5/


private eye (Beth Holloway's Brother)
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
« Reply #499 on: April 09, 2008, 12:39:50 AM »

If I understood Kyle correctly, and that would be that the Arubans retrieved and possessed all finds, not sharing anything with the crew, then that effort was a waste of time and effort. The only thing it could have accomplished was to locate additional evidence for the Arubans to destroy. I am not sure if that was the protocol out of Aruba's waters though. The effort was superb, but the game was fixed

Kermit

 Natalee Holloway / LCD Archive / Re: Natalee Case Discussion #774 11/14/08 thru       on: November 15, 2008, 05:36:29 PM
Quote from: Blonde on November 15, 2008, 05:13:40 PM
Quote from: wreck on November 15, 2008, 05:05:47 PM
I HAVE ALWAYS THOUGHT THE FISH CAGE HELD REMAINS.

I'M WITH YOU


covered-up by all of em!


Does this not include ALE? 

I never said Tim or Kermit.  I like Tim and Kermit.

I also don't post or go to the Shango/Simian threads.  A lot of people believe and have studied those facts for 3 1/2 years.

I said my thoughts about this witness and I just don't believe in him.  It is me and how I feel.

Call it a gut feeling.

I don't know, but Kermit pointed to Clyde Burke in an earlier post...Leaks like a sieve or words to that effect.

I know I don't see a date anywhere. It was likely shot at an earlier date, but I found it very interesting. It was uploaded to Youtube Feb 11, 2008 and appears to have been aired by FOX on Feb 10, 2008. No way of knowing for sure ,but one of the headlines on the news ticker at the bottom of the screen read Mass. Sex Offender wins 10 million in Lottery. This apparently did happen on Feb. 10 2008. (http://www.thebostonchannel.com/news/15264847/detail.html)

Did something happen between Christmas morning and Dec. 30th when Mos and his group were on Persistence?  The ROV went down on the 29th and took the pictures.  Did something happen on the 29th?

I will say this again.  Private sites end up causing problems and it's insulting to those of us not invited to these so called private sites. 

Got this for us
Kermit
Scared Monkey

 Offline

Posts: 2261




           Re: Natalee Case Discussion #776 11/19-08
« Reply #929 on: November 21, 2008, 03:45:33 PM »

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?action=post;quote=552323;topic=4153.920;num_replies=981;sesc=99d520921ea9b3a350cde7e6785bb5bb

oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #715 1/25 -
« Reply #103 on: January 26, 2008, 12:38:25 PM »

Thought you all may find this interesting if you're willing to accept it-

To date, the Aruban police and dive team has been a tremendous help.  They've honestly done a great job. Over the last month we've established a very good working relationship based on openness and trust.  Most of the relationship success was due to getting the media out of the way and working together shoulder to shoulder over time.  We've helped each other however and whenever we can.  They've treated us with decency and respect and we have treated them as friends and allies, which they are. Most of the police and divers are new since this case started and both eager and careful to do things right.  I wish we had a month ahead of the project just to establish the relationships and trust. I know many of you would likely doubt this view, but it's based on the experiences in the field of the entire search team. I too was extremely worried, paranoid, and suspecting in the beginning.  Now, it's clear we're all working towards a common goal.  


private eye (Beth Holloway's Brother)
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #742 3/10 -
« Reply #690 on: March 13, 2008, 06:56:18 PM »

I don't believe that Kyle or anyone else is allowed to review the case documents, according to the policy of the prosecutors office. I thought the beauty of the Persistence is that they were to do a true grid seach mission which depends not on psychics or even tips from the authorities, and as such their work would be independent of the investigation. They were there simply to attempt to search a predefined area for Natalee's remains. So I am not sure why they have been lured into defending the work of the Aruban authorities or a discussion of the validity of the investigation as they are not knowledgeable as to the investigation, other than what they have been told by these Arubans. There are an awful lot of highly educated people who have been chumped by people of far less formal education. A well trained police force is not thwarted by a grieving mother and the media.

And Kyle, I by no means am being disrespectful, I think you are brilliant, sincerely. But I don't think your education or work experience has prepared you for a cover up by these types of people. And I think you may be severely underestimating the education, experience, and wisdom of the monkeys and other coverup believers. Don't let them make a fool of you. We need you.


private eye (Beth Holloway's Brother)
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #742 3/10 -
« Reply #758 on: March 14, 2008, 12:56:35 AM »

I forgot to add that I loved the message from Kyle that it is a requirement to maintain hope. I would give anything to have to eat a great big plate of crow with Kyle watching me choke on it, meaning that the Arubans are sincerely his partner. And I want him to come to his own conclusion. But I really like him, he has definitely proven his worth, and for some dumb reason I feel like he needs my protection, which is a joke. Just keep your guard up Kyle is all I am saying. There have been some very strange happenings in this case.

That is correct.

You are correct. I believe this clearly shows evidence of the cover-up.

Kermit,

Was Paulus VDS involved in this operation at all?  Only asking because Greta keeps saying bad news for Joran and his father.

I recall when that was posted and that which you highlighted in red, made me think WHAT!!!!  he's been duped...Young and all?

Exactly, and that's as far as I got.  Just wanted to put it in perspective with the other dates things were posted about, etc.  I am multi-tasking and haven't gone back to it, BB.

Additional "material samples" NOT provided to, by source other than ALE:

1)  FBI

2)  Dave Holloway

3)  Beth Holloway

4)  Independant Forensic Laboratory

Very well said Edward.

With that said,

I have a call into Washington DC.
Soon as I hear back then I will either post or not.
I need to do that first.
So hang tight & I'm keeping you all informed as much as possible.

WHY was a U.S. government official on that boat before ALE showed up?  Looks to me like that would have solved all this speculation. 

Thanks...that's clears that up, I guess???

I'll explain that after I hear back from Washington D.C. tomorrow.

Just be patient.
I promise I won't hold back anything.

correction: should be "wasn't"

I have a call into Washington DC.
Soon as I hear back then I will either post or not.
I need to do that first.
So hang tight & I'm keeping you all informed as much as possible.

I think that was because they were guests of the Arubans. Play by their rules...and we will all get along.

Kermit,

For what it's worth, I think it's absurd to think anything should be "withheld" at the instruction of anyone else.

That's exactly the kind of attitude that is not productive. You are putting yourself in front of the information which makes it problematic. You should be more clear, tell what you know and let the information be scrutinized, not you.

At this point, it's absurd to think something we do will effect some mythical investigation or prosecution, there isn't one. And as for the FBI, who cares?

Are we not engaged in the same kind of behavior as those we accuse?

Would it be pertinent to know who had stocks back in '07 Kermit??

Kermit,  based on what you said,

snipped>>>>>


Kermit, why would you be willing to post information that the FBI specifically asked not to be made public?


Because I know that that is a lie.
The evidence has or was NOT given to the FBI by him

I am assuming there is additional pictures/evidence that you have, or have seen, that Kyle did not turn over to the FBI and they are not aware of it.  I am furthter guessing that Silvetti knows about these additional pictures and is asking them to be withheld. Am I close?

Thanks Kermit

what has happened to International Safe travel website?  Is it still there or has it dissolved?

HISTORY REFLECTS that the only way the TRUTH SURFACES is when the GOVERNMENT AGENCIES in possession of the data are FORCED BY INFORMATION BEING BROUGHT TO THE PUBLIC BY LAW ABIDING HONEST CITIZENS to provide what it knows, it does not come forward voluntarily, the POLITICIANS RESPONSIBLE TO THE PUBLIC exercise their authority improperly FOR REASONS AGAINST THE PUBLIC GOOD, in order to keep up facades of falsehood.  The FBI knew long before the photo's of ABU GRAIB about the illegal activity, THEY INFORMED NO ONE OUTSIDE THE ADMINISTRATION.  (that is but one small example)

THE TRUTH MUST COME TO THE PUBLIC IF WE ARE TO EVER HEAR OF THE DATA KNOWN & HELD BY THE GOVERNMENT AGENCIES, imo.

Above comments made about all administrations, all political parties.  All too many disregard their responsibility to discharge their responsibilities to the people of the USA.

San,
Just so you know, it was nothing you said; I actually wasn't going to respond to it and by the time I decided to you'd made your post.

I respect your opinion, and don't have a problem with it at all.

I think that is the same general reasoning behind the request for Obama's birth certificate. 

Why does the truth about the original 1961 file remain locked away and hidden?  What is the worst thing that would happen if those simple records became public?

Cover-up?

The truth struggles to the surface.

It's ok texasmom.  I know I come off as strong headed at times and I know the only thing I contribute is my opinion so I just wanted to make sure it wasn't anything I did to upset you.

San,  Nobody would ever think of you as strong headed. ::MonkeyHaHa::

Whiskeygirl,

Or like cheating spouse, if it's true, it will reveal itself. Or like great Art, it has a force of it's own.

I certainly don't know.  I just have no respect for the position regardless of political party.  It is improper, let the truth out & the public will process it with their own sensibilities not subject to inuendo & falsities marketed.  Cripes I can't even get a copy of my birth certificate without an attorney as I was born illegitimately, father unknown, without showing up IN PERSON, which is out of state, unlike anybody else that can obtain through the mail by remitting a small fee.  Ridiculous!

That was very considerate of you, and I appreciate it.   ::MonkeyCool::

Thank you.

Been lurking and reading all day.  I think I may have an idea what's going on.  The Persistance divers took samples the Arubans didn't know about.  Kyle turned over the photos etc to the FBI, but didn't turn over all the samples, because they didn't follow protocol.  He told Kermit.  Kermie is calling this a coverup, because they withheld evidence, IMHO. 

Thanks, Kermit.

I have to wait until tomorow?   ::MonkeyWaa::

 ::MonkeyHaHa::

Who withheld evidence?  Kyle?  Please help me understand.

Yes.  I think Kermie is calling them American Traitors (Kyle, Shaffer, Silvetti), because they did exactly what we wanted them to and made sure they got the evidence, but they didn't turn it over to the FBI, possibly because they tampered with the Aruban's evidence.

Holy Cow!!  I think I understand what you are saying...They took evidence to keep the ALE from getting it but did not hand it over to the proper authorities?  Is that what you mean? 

Yes, but not all of it.  Just samples of everything.  Enough to know that Mos and Dolf are in on the coverup.

 ::MonkeyConfused::

If they didn't give the evidence to Aruban Law Enforcement... seems like that would make them American HEROES and not TRAITORS?!  I was hoping they'd go down there, find a body and head out of dodge with it.  Guess I assumed if they found something they'd come home and at least give it back to the family for a burial...

Why would they not go to the FBI? Or to Beth and Dave?

 ::MonkeyConfused::

If that's what they did, I agree with it!  It might be the only way the family could get answers. 

Now THAT would make them REAL American heroes.  Maybe they are holding back waiting for some event to EXPOSE Mos and Dolf... good thinking... this would absolutely MAKE MY DAY.

I would want to know what they did with any evidence.  Does someone have answers about the genetic contents of any evidence?  Maybe the goal is to implicate those involved in any cover-up?

They'd be HEROES, if the family got the info and what they didn't prevent Joran from being brought to justice.  I'm not passing judgement on that, becuase I can see both side.

If they did what I'm guessing, it could be considered criminal.  I don't know who they did or did not go to, but Kermie says the FBI didn't get it all so I doube the family did either.

I am clueless here.
Did they try to drum up money for a search for Natalee and use part of the funds for oil exploration ?

You got me on that one.  Kyle says they didn't, but who knows.

According to Kermit, Beth and JQK have the information, IIRC.

Kermit said Beth knows.

To Aruba they would be known as Traitors.

But did Kermie say he gave it to them or did the Persistance crew?  I don't think the Persistance would give it to the family and not the FBI.

And WHEN would they have got these samples? During the dive with LE or did they do if before Mos and company arrived onboard?

OE said he gave the information to Beth and the FBI.

My guess would be before or just after they left.

Kermie,

Am I getting warm?

I left to watch football when the S--- hit the fan this afternoon. I am now caught up. Well, I have absolutely no contact with anyone involved -- but, what I have thought since February is apparently true. Natalee WAS found and the family knows. PLEASE don't misunderstand me. I am FINE with that. They are still trying to SOLVE the case and put away those guilty partys. The family has been VERY quiet since about March. There are NO efforts to resume searching -- no reason to.
Here is where I stand: I am not ready to condemn the Persistence crew. It could be that they were asked NOT to reveal "what they know". I just don't know yet.

JMO

What was Kermit's post about ...grown men and they didn't get
a sample?

Am I the only one that thinks there is a connection between all that is happening?

Nothing. Nada. Zilch. for months.  All of a sudden all kinds of strange things happening. DeVries does a 2nd show, Joran flees Thailand (we think) but no one follows him (that we know of) and he's MIA again.  The pond witness story was discounted by MOS months ago but it's all of a sudden a credible witness and others have stepped forward.

Kermit starts talking code.  OE who hasn't been around/posting for many months just happens to post and then goes back to read what has been said about the crew.  Steve Cohen sends Red an email.  Van Der Strattens' niece posts on the front page.

Greta is going to finally show the video she took of Joran this summer and comes out swinging on national TV accusing Aruba of coverup.  Them's fighting words.

I'm sure I've missed some things but you catch my drift?  I say something is up.  What say you?

Well, that's not a cover up..that would be brilliant wouldn't it? I thought that is what we wanted them to do? 

O/T, but not

I remember a tv program probably in the last year or so on a young woman who lived in the Philipines, she had replied to a job advertisement & "gotten the job", it was a scam, she was taken out of the Philipines to iirc Thailand, her BIL & another American man went in search for her & ultimately did rescue her, they were not able to save the other young women who were being held in sexual bondage but they were successful in saving the young woman from the Philipines.  Well if she had been being held in sexual bondage knowingly to the government of Thailand & was removed from Thailand, would our Government do the right thing for the 2 American citizens who did the right thing & protect them from extradition? 

After Mexico's pursuing Dog Chapman "Bounty Hunter" & the picking up by US Marshall's & all the BS that transpired until finally Mexico decided to drop the pursuit, I am not at all impressed even slightly with the treatment that citizens of our country receive when dealing with obviously CORRUPT FOREIGN GOVERNMENTS &/or the AGENCIES OF SAME.

 ::MonkeyCool::

That's what I'm starting to think.  Hope we're right.

Yep, I agree.  To make it clear, I don't have any "inside" information that I'm holding back about anything, LOL  ::MonkeyHaHa::

But didn't Kermit say these traitors were part of some cover up?  I don't think that is what most of were thinking Kermie meant...afterall why would he jump on Kyle like that if Kyle and co.  were the heroes?  I do not understand it at all.

Lala's-- I am totally lost also regarding these accusations. It certainly appears that Kermit is bs with Kyle and co. for helping with the coverup...

On target, Beans, except the post by Van der Staten's niece was actually a thread here in the forum.  Somethings up, for sure.  I don't think it was all an outreach effort on behalf of Nalalee & her family, though.  jmo   :thumleft:

geraldo had a tease tonight looks like Urine and Greta will have a new sit down interview, or was i dreaming when i saw that ?

I don't understand it either.  I'm just guessing.  Appears that Kermit and OE both are aware of the contents that were not shared with ALE.  Looks like there is a difference of opinion as to the strategy of when to "share the results".

I'm assuming that everyone went down to Aruba to go find a body and they knew ALE is corrupt and would never do anything, in fact they'd destroy any evidence they were given.

So maybe they gave them some "other evidence" as a test to see what they did with it and took the real evidence.  They bolted pretty fast.  OK so they get out of Dodge and decide that rather than share what they found with the world, perhaps they can use it later to frame ALE and expose the cover-up. 

Games are played w/ALE and the nooses are getting tighter.  Some are saying play the cards now while others say wait.  Beats me. 

May I ask two questions????  First, if this was when Natalee's remains were found, does the $250,000.00 reward still stand???  And two, what about the tennis shoe?  Was it placed in the cage to implicate Joran???  That's all I want to know.

Think of the Unknown Soldier.

Dana - tomorrow night Greta does have a show and an interview with Joran.  Greta went to Thailand for the interview.  It's supposed to be an explosive interview.  Huge.

http://www.foxnews.com/ontherecord/index.html

 ::MonkeyEek::????????????

Can I buy a vowel?

Sadly, from day one this has been a media money maker.

I don't know what is up, but maybe Greta wants to force someones hand.
She has pulled this up NOW for a reason...I think.

Well the Reward would be paid to persistence if that were true..

The money would go to the ships coffe fund.. Petty cash

when was Peter DV's sting take place in Thailand?  Was Greta doing her interview around the same time?

ALERT-Russian warships entering Venezuela waters.

Hugo is busy rigging his re-election ..
Greta is going to drop Natalee accusation in his lap.  ::MonkeyTongue::

Anyone???  You can tell me my questions are stupid, I can handle it, but will you answer???

Oh great

At Arlington Cemetery they buried some unknown bones.....
 unidentified bones, so that all families who had lost
a son could think about their son and visit the grave.
It was a symbol of their lost loved one.

They are in LOVE ..Hugo and the russian mob.. LIFETIME partners. ::MonkeyDance::

With all this info flying around, posiibly someone is going to do something very telling.

Maybe all this monkey pooh is just fueling the fire ?

Always1 - we don't have the answer, only Kermit and Kyle do I guess.

Don't know the answer to those questions. Sorry.

sorry... I have actually been there and it's very moving with the guards and all.  I just so want for Natalee to come  home... that's all...

foX now

geraldo

Geraldo just showed that clip from Greta's interview and Joran said IF he had $1 million dollars he would investigate Natalee's disappearance but he didn't so he had to leave it up to Greta.  THIS guy is sick.  Give him $1m and he will solve it for them.  That jerk.

aruban cops have new evidence that may implicate Urine

Well, if you buried some bones and you didn't know who's they
were, but they came from an area where you thought she may have
been.  You could think maybe she has come home.  just a thought.

Didn't Mos have a timeline to Dec 31 this year, to decide ? ( like as if he going to make the decision, eh )
..

What I can not believe is that I have had to watch that cheeeezy stash of Geraldos again, just more gray.
'
Somethings afoot.
And everyone wants to be first to put the missing pieces together.
IMO this includes the frog, well intentioned as he may be.

Anyone catch all of Fox just now. it went too fast for me and i was having a hard time getting in here. TIA

Sorry, I just can't stand watching Geraldo..that's where I draw the line  ::MonkeyWink::

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub5/GeraldoDance.gif)

Quite honestly, when you asked me earlier what I could make of this, I was going to say, 'make a fire'...

Joran said to Greta, with all the info he has given her, they should be able to find more answers.

IBE - I think it was just a preview of Greta's bombshell show for tomorrow night.  Definately want to watch Greta tomorrow night:

http://www.foxnews.com/ontherecord/index.html


(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub5/GretaDance2.gif)

One of Geraldos panel asked why Urine would do an interview.
Geraldo said maybe to get Greta off the phone..lol

can anymonkey ellaborate on the email mentioned earlier that Red received fro Steve Croes?

TIA

Not Steve Croes, Steve Cohen....big difference  ::MonkeyWink::  I think it was more or less an "I'm still around" type email.  We were about to put out another MIA on him, LOL

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub5/stevecohenmissing3FOUND.jpg)

I posted this earlier.I'm hoping and praying their tring to see how far up the ladder this really goes and why!Maybe they can get the whole deck to fall??

OMG Klaas...You're too funny. ::MonkeyLaugh::

Been some great posts but i'm still trying to wrap my brain around someone not turning over all evidence if that is the case...

Ty Klass.

Where is my monkey banging head against wall...lol

I have been looking at too many old posts from lurkers and trolls.

 ::MonkeyTongue::

You're welcome FOM

kkate - Back in August 06 we did a front page post about Steve Cohen and that he was MIA.  He promptly read the front page post and emailed Red to let Red know he was still alive, LOL.   That's when we first posted the milk carton - I added the found a couple days ago, LOL.

If you weren't supposed to have the evidence, how would one present it to make sure it would "hold water"  in an Aruban court?

I think that man sucks lemons.  He always has that look on his face.

Maybe they aren't looking to go to an Aruban court with it where they know it will disappear.

How about Holland.

How about the Hague?  Possible.

Calling it a night.  Too much partying last night (company party) and they WILL expect us to show up in the morning.  Good Night.

LOL.Have a great morning ::MonkeyHaHa::

San, I dunno.  I am just throwing banannas from my tree.

The last time I spent much time here, Kermit was just hopping in.
Seems like there have been alot of red herrings since then.
Not pointing fingers, just sayin thats what I notice.

This case has yet to disappoint me in terms of wild goose chases.

Exactly what " evidence " are we speaking of ? Was this the find A YEAR AGO ?
I think that someone better explain this to me as if I was in grade six.

WOW WOW WOW
Was it Halloween in the last thread?   ::MonkeyConfused::  I sure missed some action and now I'm hoping that we can get to the truth.
Anything new that I should know? I spend a great time with my family and now have so much to catch up with. What I have read is so very confusing and hope that someone can get us on the right path. Just don't know who to believe now. God Bless everyone and free cigars for everyone!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Truth for Natalee

k....too much silence....

Pita, granny toad, wreck, ospainter, helen beck, sadi levia,...

nanna for yer thoughts?

Yes, or for use in a civil case?

Yes, or for use in a civil case?
[/quote]

 ::MonkeyDance::

throwing u a nanna and monkey beads!

 ::MonkeyDance::

throwing u a nanna and monkey beads!
[/quote]

 ::MonkeyHaHa::

Goodnight all!  Have a good evening!

Too much hoppin' right now -- I think EVERYTHING will be revealed THIS WEEK. I gave my opinion earlier -- it's all good.

Great question FOM!Interesting in terms of chain of command if this is to be the case.Would it be admissable in Aruban court.I think not from there standpoint.Be interested to know once it was out of the water and on board where the law falls on that??Throwin bananas as well..Just thoughts as to to how they're gonna attempt to get the rats in the trap on their own accord??

 ::MonkeyDance::

throwing u a nanna and monkey beads!
[/quote]

What became of the civil suit with Beth and Bram??Klass??

world court

nite Pita....nite wreck....nite johnnboy

someone is snoring..... ::MonkeyHaHa::

A few questions/comments:

Questions--
Was Kermit on board (or involved) during the searches?
How well do Kermit and OE(Kyle) know one another? OE(Kyle) emailed Kermit.
Kermit knows a lot about search. Does he know enough to connect the dots in the timeline, starting from CnC?

Comment--
This is my opinion, only. LoRain seems like he/she has motives when posting. The motives do not seem to coincide with the majority that post here? While catching up, the observation stood out like a sore thumb, to me.

Goodnight Pita!   ::MonkeyCool::

nite, fom....I know you aren't here much but we CAN put you in the fold of the surprise visitors, ya' know....just sayin'....don't be a stranger....

Posted at RU tonight  - just for a little late night comic relief  ::MonkeyHaHa::




 ::MonkeyHaHa::

That is most definitely my DH.... ::MonkeyWaa::

Oh Klaas that little jumping Geraldo is adorable!

oceanexploration posted:
You may freely do as you please. I will not stand in your way.

So you are saying YES? We are going to expose the truth here and now?

_________________________________________________________________________

Would take that to be permission...

Later on he says No..

There was another post where i'm quite positive OE said No hotShot..I will look for the post..Be back..

keep reading! ::MonkeyCool::

hotshot or Kermit??? 

Kermit said:

Natalee Holloway / Natalee Holloway / Re: Natalee Case Discussion #778 11/23/08 -  on: Today at 06:19:22 PM  

Withholding evidence to your own government is not, in my book, legal.
But that is just me. Maybe I'm a bad undercover frog.

What do people take this to mean?
Kyle with held evidence from FBI?
Was kermit there? How would he know?

Neither. BUCKSHOT.

 ::MonkeyHaHa::  OK...literally impaired....I get it, now.

 ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyHaHa::

Goodnight everyone!

Natalee Holloway / Natalee Holloway / Re: Natalee Case Discussion #777 11/21/08 thru  on: Today at 12:56:12 PM  
Quote from: SS on Today at 12:53:13 PM
I, for one, would just love to know what is going on.


I'll tell you what is going on. oceanexploration just needs to say YES to moi!

But it seems he left.

I'm going to go get some flies.

I have not, nor would or will I ever lie to ANYONE! It is not how I live my life. And I won't start now.
What I have said is the truth, I confronted him, he took off. Maybe he needs some time to plan another diversion or search his soul. I hope it's the latter.

 
Moi is French. ::MonkeyLaugh:: ::MonkeyHaHa::


Maybe he needs some time to plan another diversion or search his soul.
(Is Kermit insinuating that OE is corrupt? With holding truth? Am I missing something?)

I'm right behind you Texasmom....G'nite, everyone....see you later.

Reply Quote 
 
52   Natalee Holloway / Natalee Holloway / Re: Natalee Case Discussion #777 11/21/08 thru  on: Today at 12:41:21 PM 
Quote from: oceanexploration on Today at 11:21:25 AM
To clarify a few points so you aren't distracted or mislead by emotional opinions: 

1st - Pipeline surveys resemble just that.. a pipeline.  They are aligned with a route corridor from point A to point B.  This search was a squarish grid centered on finding Natalee Holloway and has no other purpose.  Suggesting anything else is insulting your own intelligence. 

2nd - Louis and John had no alterior motives with this search.  If they did, obviously something further would have come of it businesswise.  It hasn't.  Calling them "American Traitors" is again an insult to your own intelligence. 

I support freedom of speech and respect opinion, but not where the facts do not support it.  This is borderline libel and similar to saying the Apollo moon landing was staged.  I've worked along side both Louis and John (Silvetti is NOT red shirt lol).  They both sacrificed a lot personally to conduct this search.  Perfect people they are not.  However, calling them traitors is past opinion.  Do not let your emotions interfere with what you know to be true regarding this case.

3rd - All visitors on board the Persitence signed in.  Their names were recorded in the Ships log. I do not have this, nor do I have the time or access to track it down.  If it were relevant to the case it has been forwarded to the FBI.  Don't you think the FBI knows exactly who was on that boat and if it were important?  My job had nothing to do with logging visitors, as I am not a secretary.  The notes I kept were for my own records and pertained mainly to successfully conducting a very technically demanding search.

I am not reluctant to help where I am able, but I am reluctant to naming friends and coworkers names involved in the search when their pictures get posted on the net.  Do you know how creepy that is?  It's been almost a year since the search began.  With the exception of a notable few, I can't remember the names of all who came on board.  Even their faces are fading in my mind. 

My prayers and blessings go out to all those who have worked tirelessly on this case and to the Holloway-Twitty family.  YOU are a major reason why this case is still alive.  I pray, hope, and trust that this case will be solved and justice carried out here on Earth in the near future.  Keep hope alive.



You want to take me on?
Then let's do it right here!
I'll expose YOUR part along with the cover-up right here and now.
Otherwise, I suggest you crawl back in to your hole.
Because frankly, I am not only willing, but able to expose this whole thing.
Lets do it big boy!
Come on!
Just say YES!

__________________________________________________________________

I am getting my popcorn ready? -- BUCKSHOT


 

Hey for all the "outside the loop" posters here know Natalee could have been recovered from that site long before the Persistence even set out for destination "LieRuba", it was stated that the "trap" was discovered very near where Tim Miller had indicated that she was put.

The Persistence could have then gone on in there to establish the previous find to ALE & if or should I say when ALE/OM did not take adequate action bring the corruption into light.  No one would be subject to extradition as NOBODY would have any evidence of when the actual recovery had been made or by whom.  It is quite apparent that when ever illegal activities take place LieRuba's officials have the damn radar TURNED OFF.  Bring it into the light, our Government could certainly stand behind that no matter what it's BS "friendly status is with a bunch of crooks for whatever reason, that I personally do not feel are justified" LieRuba would have no credible evidence to justify any extradition requests, cripes the USA paid for the ISA for a bunch of elitest perverts offspring to be educated, shameful imo.  That's why the world doesn't find fault with the American people but with the policies of it's elected & bureaucratic officials, who seem to take care of the untrustworthy cuz they are in a position of power.

If now those living on LieRuba expect that the LieRuba corruption can be cleaned up by the USA &/or the Holloways, they are mistaken.  That will have to be done from within through their own election process.  If there is an uncorrupted political entity on the devils island I suggest they get their butts to work to win over the hearts of the electorate that they will not let corruption weild it's ugly head into a new government that people will have employment due to their qualifications & not some "luck of birth" or "looking the other way when criminal activity takes place.

Yes, Moi is French...so what does that have do do with the rest of the scenario?   

Yep, I'm heading to the boudreau (sp?)...tout suit.

Sorry for the crazy posts.My connectivity was going wacky.Am i correct in saying that OE came back in a later post and said "No" to Kermit??Anyone.I will look as well but am slower then most..LOL

Well, I guess we'll meet here tomorrow after Greta on Fox. G'Nite

OE E-MAILED Kermit and asked him NOT to reveal what he knows. Kermit is awaiting someone in Washington DC to tell him whether to reveal what he knows.

I posted my thoughts and opinions, but they don't get a lot of "air time"......

but I'll say it again anyway ::MonkeyHaHa::

When Cohen reappeared, And Tacopina pushed himself away from the table for an interview, and Mos issued a press release, and Mos suddenly believes that PRDV tape is admissable and is now Joran's confession, and VDS' niece posts at SM, and Greta has big news, new witnesses coming forward, Joran's on the run again......

Something's up.

Something seemed odd about the Persistence search at the time it happened.  Sudden departure, strange posts and pictures leaked. 

I don't know what that's all about, but I do know that something's going on when "company insiders" dump a bunch of stock and trigger an SEC investigation.

That's all

He said "no" to releasing it on this forum. Not quite sure if he meant that for Kermit, or was stating he wanted nothing to do with letting info out that could hinder investigation.

I agree.

If a member of the FBI had been aboard that boat to observe what was in that cage when it was brought up ... this entire discussion would not be taking place.

I cannot comprehend how collaborating with the Aruban "powers that be" who Natalee Holloway's family perceived to be behind the coverup to protect Joran and Paulus van der Sloot from implication in the happenings of the morning of May 30th  ... could possibly bring about justice for Natalee Holloway.

Think about it.  The enemy is not about to assist in furthering a quest to find Natalee's remains ... a quest that does not adhere to the coverup agenda.

Janet
_________


JUG TWITTY

NANCY GRACE
Latest in Search for Natalee Holloway
Aired October 4, 2005 - 20:00:00   ET

JUG TWITTY: Nancy, what happened -- well, I think it was probably about 30 days after, or so, maybe the 1st of July or something. I had a meeting with Van Der Straaten, who was the police chief in charge at that time. And I went in and sat down with him and told him and Officer Sanboe (ph), who was going to take over for Van Der Straaten. He was there, too.

You know, I asked a question about, I understand that there was a statement made by Joran, where he talks about what he had done to Natalee and he described in very graphic detail, like, the stitching and embroidery and everything on Natalee`s underwear. And he goes, Oh, no, no, no. Absolutely not. Absolutely not. Well, little did he know I had just read the statements where Joran describes that to the "T," you know, two days before. But of course, I didn`t tell him that. But that`s just when I started to think something`s wrong here.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0510/04/ng.01.html


'Scarborough Country' for August 11
updated 6:33 a.m. PT, Fri., Aug. 12, 2005

TWITTY: ... but when they take my statement 33 days later, and they take the other guys‘ statements that were with me and ladies that were with me, you know, like 19 days later, it‘s like they didn‘t want to find the truth.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8925176/


BETH TWITTY

'Scarborough Country' for Oct. 21st
updated 1:46 p.m. PT, Sun., Oct. 23, 2005

HOLLOWAY TWITTY: They never—they never wanted to implicate these three young men.  They never wanted to implicate them from the beginning. And there is a list of reasons, you know, why we know that is true.

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/9796403/from/RL.2/


The Jonesboro Sun
January 29, 2007

Twitty recalled the first days after her daughter's disappearance and the actions of the Aruban government.

"We did everything we could in looking for her.  There was a government coverup, and it has been documented," Twitty contended. "Yet we have remained respectful and have done the right thing."

http://www.jonesborosun.com/story.php?ID=25809


'Rita Cosby Live & Direct' for Dec. 5th
updated 6:18 a.m. PT, Tues., Dec. 6, 2005

TWITTY: ... Remember, within the first 24 hours, we knew who the suspects were. We knew the persons that Natalee were taken from Carlos and Charlie‘s. We knew the license plate of the gray Honda they placed her in. We knew the condition that Natalee was in. We knew the behavior or the conduct in which they engaged in with Natalee.

And then not only that, Jane, within 72 hours, we knew that their first story was totally fabricated, that within the first 72 hours, I faced a room of 12 -- at least 12 detectives, Aruban and Dutch detectives, and a lead detective, Dennis Jacobs (ph), and they knew after we reviewed video footage from the Holiday Inn casino lobby that my daughter had never been brought back to the Holiday Inn. They knew that those suspects were fabricating a story from day one.

<snipped>

TWITTY: Well, Jane, something that the family knew—and we have to keep reminding everyone—after 72 hours -- 72 hours—we knew definitively that these suspects were not telling the truth. We knew that my daughter had never been brought back to the Holiday Inn. Of course we were becoming frustrated. Who wouldn‘t, at this point? You know, we—and what was so unbelievable about this, is they knew this information and still chose to pursue the two security guards on June the 5th.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10348437/


DR. PHIL
January 29, 2006

BETH: There are times when we're thinking that we need to continue, and of course we're still searching for answers, but it's this rollercoaster ride. And it makes me so angry, Dr. Phil, when I let myself fall for information coming out of an official who represents the island of Aruba. If somebody presents you with false hope and false information, it's devastating.

http://www.drphil.com/slideshows/slideshow/3041/?id=1&slide=3&null=null


DAVE HOLLOWAY

Dave Holloway
Corruption in Paradise
Page 183

I commented to Jacobs about how short my statement was. He said that I could add anything I wanted to it. Also, I noticed that Eric Soemers's name was on it, but that detective was not even present during the interview. Now I wondered if Jacobs was making up everyone's statement and getting Eric to sign on to them. If that were the case, he could state anything he wanted, and it would look like an official statement made in front of a witness.


On the Record w/ Greta
Transcript: Corruption in Paradise?
Tuesday, April 11, 2006

HOLLOWAY: Oh, the media was our best friend. If it hadn't been for the media this thing would have been swept under the table the very first day and we'd have been calling back to Aruba "Have you heard anything? Have you heard anything?" I truly believe that.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,191377,00.html


On the Record w/ Greta
Hope for the Holloways?
Thursday, November 17, 2005

HOLLOWAY: ... I made sure that the prime minister understood our position. You know, I had been holding off on this boycott as long as I could, and I told him, I said, you know, The big wave is coming, and if you guys are not going to listen, I can't help you anymore.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,175925,00.html

I agree, something feels different this time.  We shall see.

Hi Wreck, We have both felt this way for sometime now. I pray that this is the truth.

I do not get the Fox Channel.

 ::MonkeyWaa::

Janet

Janet - hopefully someone will put it up on youtube soon after it's aired.  I'm also sure several of us will be watching and doing our best to transcribe.  Hey...maybe Heli will transcribe, LOLOL  ::MonkeyHaHa::

2009 should be a very stressful time!

Kermit,

First, I have NEVER threatened you.  The only thing I said to you is that I do not want to be sued by releasing information into the public that I was specifically told by OUR FBI as confidential. When I'm told not to comment by our FBI, I listen. You clearly do not understand this.

I made a mistake trusting you with so much as a greeting.  It was a gross misjudgement in character on my part. 

We all want the truth out in it's entirety.  The truth will be told by Beth in her terms when SHE feels ready.  It's not up to you or I. If you want the truth, ask BETH, not me.  Your answers will come from her.   

As for me, I stand by Natalee.   I'm sorry Kermit, my answer is NO.  This is my last post at SM. 


Don't know how to carry posts over but this is where i believe OE(Kyle) told Kermit NO on sayin,and or releasing the information they both apparently know about.Correct me if i'm wrong.It was on page #42 of the previous Thread..

I will be reading the forum tomorrow night and ... anticipating Greta's transcript when it is posted on Tuesday.  Only problem ... Greta never provided a complete transcript of her show.

Carpe ... where are you?

Good Night Monkeys!!  Good Night Zoo Keepers!!

Janet
9:40 PM PT

Hello Hotshot.Hope those arrests of the other two witnesses will come sooner then later.If it happens at all??

Some posts from Kermit

Kermit: on: November 19, 2008, 02:35:22 PM
see the posts I've given to you.
drop the diversion stuff fed to you.

Kermit: on: November 17, 2008, 06:07:36 PM
and John Silvetti mentioned the pond.
Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 12:42 pm    Post subject: John Silvetti Posts at BFN

Kermit: on: November 15, 2008, 05:49:27 PM
I only keep track of those who threaten us.

kermit: on: November 15, 2008, 05:48:53 PM
fbi did NOT know everything.
re-read what private eye monkey posted.
then you can piece some of it together.

Kermit: on: November 05, 2008, 06:03:58 PM
Charles Croes the poet & American Traitor

Kermit: on: September 21, 2008, 03:19:32 PM
Ah Ha!
Why would Kyle have the tennis shoe. He's just a boat guy!
Now, go back and re-look at the photos and follow the trail!
and I can keep me frog legs.

It was a joke from the Shango thread insinuating that the identity could perhaps be a Frenchman.

At what point do you believe OE(Kyle) had tennis shoe Kermit??

Hi there.  I didnt say they were going to be arrested.  If anything, they are heros.

Which photos are being discussed here Buckshot??

Sorry Hotshot!Brain is on overload!I stand corrected.The witnesses definitly will be Angels if they have information that will bring difinitive closure to this case of injustice.Hopefully the bring a BIG paddy wagon.LOL.

Kermit -

Has CAPS always been as honest as you (self-proclaimed) have been with us?
Is CAPS any part of the diversion?
Do you know for certain who Shango and Simian were/are? You?
How do you rate Jossy Mansur's honesty through all of this? (10:Extremely honest - 0:Lying through his teeth)
Do you know more to the story (starting at Cnc, working forward) than the corruption and reults of the search?

IIRC, this was in context, I believe, of the series of photos released by ___________(insert name-debatable).
The string of photos underwater of the cage, etc..

Queston(s) for Kermit:

(1) Will OE(Kyle)'s actions/inactions be substantiated in the big picture of seeking truth? Yes or No?

(2) Do you consider OE(Kyle) an American traitor, in your own opinion? Yes or No?

(3) Was there evidence of the crime of NH in a trap in the ocean? Yes or No?

Like you say: Easy as one, two, three.
I have simplified it even further for you - Easy as Yes or No...

And speaking of heros, if in deed any of the people from the Persistance does have any evidence that was tested here in the states, they are heros too.  After 3+ years of the BS going on in Aruba and their way of doing things, I sure would have taken evidence also.  not for me, for the family.  I have said that since we have known them to be messing with us.  "IF" Kermit was actually on this boat, she had to be from the Date Line Crew.  Kermit has to clear things from washington first?  Wow, thats a big step.  Who does she know?  Sure as hell DC didnt do anything to help the Holloways except for the Condi thing.  Which in all reality did nothing.  We all know that Joran will NEVER get charged, so what is the next best thing?  Getting real closure for the family, getting some thing of Natalee to bring home and bury?  Yes.  If any of this has to do with what I have just stated, then I say good for them.  It was nice enough for these gentlemen to go out of their way for months to go to a corrupt island, and looking for a missing girl on their time.  During the holidays to say the least.  I commend them.  No-one else would do it, and we all know Aruba wouldn't do it.  If they did scan for their pipe line, which I highly doubt, then so be it.  They searched for Natalee in the process.  Maybe they told Aruba they were there for that, and id the opposite.  who knows.  Either way, they are still heros in my mind, and this Kermit is not playing nice.  i don't know what she is trying to screw with, or what her motive is.  But in my opinion, "IF" any of this is to be true, I still say it's all good.  Markme as being bad, but I would have done the same thing, and maybe even I have.  

May tomorrow bring us all a step closer to justice for the girl who was unable to achieve her dreams do to the EVIL of others!God Bless The Monkey's as you've continued to show me that good does still exist in our world!Goodnight...God Bless..


Keepthefaith

Good post and I agree...but Kermit on the boat?...hmmm...do frogs like salt water?...

Yes Keepthefaith ... I think this was Kyle's last post. Then Kermit came on and said the he had received an email from Kyle not to discuss this anymore on the Forum.

Is anybody here or are people just logged in?

Can honestly say that I really don't understand why OE would choose to not post at SM anylonger due to being in disagreement with one poster that being the lover frog, can anybody explain why that type of reaction, just don't understand it.  Agree to disagree, does anybody else find that an odd reaction or is it just me being old & all?

BUCKSHOT has asked Kermit about Caps…My Perceptions…FWIW

Caps led some of us a merry dance around the Shango thread at times. Caps made many off the wall posts…Caps very seldom backed up his posts? Caps “mis-spoke” often, intentionally IMO.  In the beginning, Caps was on posting in Shango all day and night. Think this was until April…Some wondered what he did for a living…lol…He started disappearing for days at a time.

Around April 25th, after being led up the garden path, I was convinced of some things about Caps. My post was misinterpreted…I did not say Caps was a troll.

I do not believe Caps just happened on SM after discussing the Natalee Holloway case. I believe he is part of the plan that has now emerged. You will notice that on a few occasions he revealed the news before it was the news.
 
There are 3 people we have been interested in this case that answers were not forthcoming from Caps.

Caps often took his cue from previous posts…come in a week later with what had been discussed…his posts often echoed the thoughts of other posters. Then if it didn’t fit he would change his mind.

Caps asked questions at times that I felt he already knew the answers to. He exposed much of the corruption in Aruba…All the dirt on all the Ministers and bigwigs.

Both Caps and his friend Carlos Tromp were out to expose that Corruption. Read Caps early posts about the ICC. In the Hague I believe. He said this is the only way for the Family to get Justice for Natalee. I believe this was posted in January.

BTW…Caps posted that he was a Resident Alien, ie US Permanent Resident…his post tells me he is not… ::MonkeyWink::

Let me know when to start a new thread…Who is CapsLockWizard and what does he Know?

How am I doing Kermie?

Good Morning...JMO...This is going to a court in the Hague...Kermit may be upset about what happened to the evidence...There are the FBI and Those taking this to the Hague. The FBI didn't get the evidence.

Well, don't know quite how to feel about that then.  It didn't seem to do very much for that man who was robbed of everything he had on LieRuba & as far as I know is now in a USA jail or prison for misstating the answer on an immigration form.  The future criminals in LieRuba were provided better accomodations but other than that was there really justice for the complete corruption of his case evidence disappearing on LieRuba?  Didn't get that impression, it is obvious it is alive & well flourishing loudly on the hell hole of a place.

Alex Mathew...disappeared from the Internet...all the sites and links just went? Maybe the INS told him to shut them down. His arrest was always strange to me...

We looked into him as Shango for a while...

Altruist...please read my previous post...Thanks!

Another thought...

The reason Beth was at peace on February 3rd...the DeVries show was that Natalee's remains had already been Identified.

That would make Robin's posts on whatever that site is called, a diversion. The ones about the DNA made around March, I believe.

Is it possible?

Of course if what I want to believe did happen at some point to establish the corruption would really have thought that complete immunity would have been extended for the endeavor's by our appropriate agencies or would it be treated like it is written about CIA covert actions?  You know, USA knows nothing if the actions are "discovered".  Just trying to understand, obviously having a hard time but if preventative measures were taken & those immunities were not arranged then independant laboratory testing would have been my route probably x 2, certainly not handing it over to the FBI going on record that I had done something for which a corrupt government could come after me for, not knowing definitively that my government was going to protect me & all others.

Guess that is what made me wonder about the parents of Natalee being in agreement about the information & direction of everything involved, cuz if ploys were set in force to divide & conquer that would be devastating, imo.  That's why I just was hoping to find out that both parents are aware of the entire operation or the operations that took place prior to the Persistence arriving on scene, if that is how it was orchestrated as I could see that being done as well.  It was made clear that Tim Miller had a pretty clear idea of the location he wanted to check out & that was known long before the Persistence even filled up the tanks, per se.

This is what I mean...I have one of those cards...That is not how the ID numblers are written...Only looked at mine once in a while, but I knew this was wrong...

Quote Caps...

CAPSLOCKWIZARD USA RESIDENT ALIEN. XXX.XX.XXXX

THE SHANGO – RIDDDLE
CODEBREAKER CAPSLOCKWIZARD
READ ON YOUR OWN BUT DO NOT BLAME THE CODE BREAKER
5 more code to go.

Thank you Mum.  Yes have been reading all along but just being dense may be the problem.  Alex Matthews, yes that is him, see I couldn't recall his name.

I just don't think that anybody living on LieRuba can believe that any of this is going to really solve the corruption problems there, that has to be addressed by the electorate of same.  That's why I was thinking that the loving frog may be upset that this was not going to be brought out into the light.  Don't get me wrong I believe it should be brought out into the light but with the complete details, I don't know.

My mind is not capable to follow Caps really.  I have read most if not all of the S&S threads, not discounting sometimes the eyes can go forward without really reading, ya know?  Just too many interpretations available & figure if Caps has documentation then he better get it to someone who can do something with it, we certainly can't, you know what I mean?  Otherwise it is kind of futile.

But in my mind I have great hope that this will all eventually come out into the light & it will happen when the parents of Natalee decide it should be so with public stance & statements.  Not movies or books, although they could come later on if they so chose.

Also the round the round the mulberry bush with Peter deVries, very disappointed, he is certainly no Mike Wallace, that is what I expected not year after year updates for gosh sakes, milking an incident until nobody cares any longer as the tease has ruined the interest quotient.

I can't figure out Tim and Dave being taken off the Persistence on that wild goose chase.  Thought I read that the tip came through the Embassy?

I would hope that Dave and Beth were on the same page with this.

Well agree with you there Mum, for sure.  But earlier when I wasn't being so clear Lala's indicated that her guess is that they probably were not communicating at this point, but again she didn't say that she knows that to be the case.

I also believe that this can all be brought out into the light to expose those corrupt criminal cowards & not jeopardize the actual identities or timeline of when the evidence came to light & available for the family.

Certainly wouldn't want any nationality to come to harm as obviously Americans have been on that hell hole of Aruba & it should come to the international press' attention alerting tourists that this is not a safe destination for anybody & will admit that it bothers me very much that Americans still are going there & putting themselves at risk when the treatment of Natalee & her family really does indicate just how dangerous it is for decent folks.

I really think it is a place for perverts.

thank you!

(and you worded it so nicely)

I've been bewildered by a lot of the conclusions
since march/april or thereabouts

got my thoughts tangled up in one post
and it came out all backwards
but he/Caps started running w/ that, building on it ...
and I was like WTH?

another time, when we were naming our candidates
for who is shango/simian,
he started laying out a theory re shango's ID
by relating research to a quote from ... simian

conflicting information was enlarged upon,
there was lotsa circular reasoning w/o backup
and many questions ignored for long periods of time

so I'll kick back to lurking, but again, thank you

Goodmorning !
At what time is the show this evening ?
Can we follow it here in the Netherlands ?

If IIRC, "On the Record" comes on at 10PM EST, the Fox Network.  I don't get Fox but am hoping that poster's will be typing what they are hearing in the thread from the show.

Finn..please don't lurk! We need all the Monkeys to work though this mud!

It is on at 10 and replayed at 12 or 1AM...Not sure how to stay up...go back to bed now I guess!

Johan...I am not sure you can get it. The transcript and video should be out early in the morning, though I am sure the Monkeys will give a play by play...Some are very good at that.

Not lurking Al, just trying to catch up on the posts.

I think Ree is on to the nub of the matter. I tried posting a long missive yesterday that disappeared and I didn't have the strength to rewrite it but it had to do with something Kyle wrote yesterday in the heat of the moment. (and yeah Kyle I know I said I would back off but here goes, first)

He said he found a target on the early morning of the  25th and was asked if he had more he was interested in for the ROV on the 29th. So my BIG questions start there.

1. Was he ASKED the question on the 29th or
2. Did the team determine DAYS before the 29th that the ROVs would do a dive on the 29th? (following me here, ya'll?)
3. WHY KYLE, Why did you say that the people on board knew better than to ask questions of you when YOU seem to be the one with answers? Is this because even on the 25th, 26th, 27th  and 28th, there were people on board that were IN ADDTION to the original team? Like Dateline filming over your shoulders?
4. Kyle never mentioned Dateline being on board in his weblog so how did they get on board, how did they get involved in the first place? Did they offer to help fund the search in exchange for some exclusive? Remember TMiller REALLY REALLY thought Natalee would be found right there, so much so that he made a phone call to Dave H 99.9% certain.
5. I don't recall Dateline mentioning ANYTHING about cloth or items being found and sent off to labs? Anyone else remember this??

SO as a result, I wake up this morning and read REE and think "oh man, this makes most sense."

THEY DID find something big, huge. THEY DIDN'T want the media, the polis, the authorities, no one to know til they recovered "items" themselves for analysis. Did anyone else find it strange that the "shoe" and the "skull" were ON TOP of the open cage door? Not inside, well inside, but on top of the cage door, laying open, like they were tossed in. Who knows how long any of that stuff had been there. But Kyle went off on the posters when he saw the photos on this website. I guess I would too if I were trying to get closure for the family without alerting the very people they didn't want knowing stuff.

And about that same time comes PDV with his undercover footage. Didn't we all think finally, that little jerk will get his! (ok he didn't but I can't think of a nicer place for him than a Thai prison.)

So there's Beth, she believes she knows what the monsters have done. She looks spent and ready to learn to cope and move on. THere is no "discovery of remains" for the media to turn any private burial into a circus and I tell you what, that would have been a nightmare for this poor family. What they have been thru is unbelieveable.

Everything drops off the radar. The FBI releases nothing of importance. Mos is gliding into retirement (have a nice life, get some good rest and comtemplate the misery you leave behind) Anita, think of your son in a Thai prison...... think of his brothers wondering for the rest of their lives jsut what you people did to their home and future.

THere are many mysteries in the past that "we" never learn the finality of, this one is probably going to join the rest. I'm ok with that.
I think I am , at least.

Oh yes Mum I agree....

I agree with both yours' and Ree's posts...Thanks for the reminder...sometimes I forget all I have read the night before...and even what I read at 2AM!

thanks Altruist !

I remember a long time ago, may have been back during the time they were searching, that OE posted a question to the board.  He asked us all that if they found Natalee, should they just bring her back home to the family and not tell the Arubans.  We all told him that is exactly what they should do.

Blah  I love watching your avatar

Johan...do you remember who the Lawyer was that Beth hired in the Netherlands right after Feb. 3rd.

Any info on him...field of expertise...cases in the International Court?

Thanks in Advance as Always!

I would love to see Wreck's train wreck...Just one more time!

(http://www.marcelvanbussel.nl/wp-includes/js/imagemanager/images/moszkowicz_persconf_105451a.jpg)

Bram Moszkowicz Mom  and he did also the Alex Mathew case .

More about Bram here :

http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fnl.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FBram_Moszkowicz&hl=nl&ie=UTF-8&sl=nl&tl=en

 ::MonkeyWink::

Eduardo Mathew case

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eduardo_Mathew

I have DAYS here on this site where I feel like that stickman! :gaah:

Thank You Johan... ::MonkeyWink::

snipped...

Mathew was released by order of the Minister of Justice of Aruba on April 30 2004 (by which time his application before the European Court of Human Rights had been communicated to the Netherlands Government).

The Court considered photographs and assessed the facts in detail in its Chamber judgment.

On September 29, 2005, the Court held, unanimously, that there had been a violation of Article 3 (prohibition of inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment) of the European Convention on Human Rights, in that:

the applicant was detained in solitary confinement for an excessive and unnecessarily protracted period;
he was detained for at least seven months in a cell which failed to provide adequate protection against the weather and the climate; and,
he had had to endure unnecessary and avoidable physical suffering in order to gain access to outdoor exercise and fresh air.
 
Under Article 41 (just satisfaction) of the Convention, the Court awarded the applicant 10,000 euros (EUR) for non-pecuniary damage and EUR 3,000 for costs and expenses

Mum, I am not trying to be mean in any way or form, but right now is not the time to pull this on CAPS.  You'll just have to trust me on this one.  You have no idea, who he is, or what he is doing.  A few of us do.  please leave this off the pages.  Klaas i am asking you to please help before it all goes up in smoke for what maybe the last chance of getting answers.

ALWAYS good to see you blah!  ::MonkeyHaHa::

There was a 'squirrel' discussion on the Caylee thread -- and you invariably came up.   ::MonkeyHaHa::

Regarding Eduardo Mathew, if the USA DEA & FBI has not approached this man then what a lost opportunity & shame on them.  It really doesn't make any sense to me how the USA has imprisoned him on a ? that could have definitely been misunderstood by him to be erroneous & that he would be in custody for all of this time & that he had been mistreated & that the mistreatment was in fact established & this was after as I understand it much of the evidence of his initial case had been destroyed, in this country, the court could have a complete copy of one's file & if the case goes to appeal & that original file can not be located even though there is a copy the accused is set free.

There really is something suspect going on with the treatment of this man, imo.

 ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyHaHa::

I missed that post... thanks for bringing it up.  Interesting!

Morning Monkeys!

Caught up and on my out for most of the day.

So.....I have been looking for other major philanthropic efforts from Mr Schaeffer and/or Mr Silvetti -- but I came up empty. But I'm not a a great researcher  ::MonkeyHaHa:: -- I admit.

Anyone find anything to support other philanthropic 'causes' from either of these gentlemen??

Or 'why' they chose this one??


And thanks to Tamikosmom for posting what I could not find  ::MonkeyWink::

Yes -- Kyle was warned ( more than once) about the 'less than honest' effort on the part of Aruba...from those, like PI, with FIRST HAND experience.

But of course, Kyle knew better than all of us. Aruba proved to Kyle that Aruba LE deserved the respect  ::MonkeyConfused::  ::MonkeyNoNo::

And here we are.................is anyone REALLY surprised?

.

Sure thing Hotshot...not quite in the dark as you think I am...an email or two should get the posts erased!!!!

"I know nuzzing"   ::MonkeyNoNo::

Hotshot, I guess I always "assumed" Kermit was a HE.  You are saying SHE.  How interesting.

Yes, and shes working on other bad things too.  Thats as far as I am going.

I sincerely hope that does NOT happe.

No -- I would hardly consider you in the dark.

That would be for mushrooms -- who like to be fed manure.  ::MonkeyWink::

.

Morning sharon...just don't like being taken for a fool!

BBL...Have a lot to do before I can nap to stay up for Greta!

Ok, what time is Kermit going to put up???

 ::MonkeyLaugh:: ::MonkeyLaugh::

I'm with ya!!

There are many who wish to 'silence' us  ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyHaHa::

Just because I have been silenced .... does NOT mean that my mind has been changed  ::MonkeyWink::

mushrooms = live in the dark and LOVE to be fed BS.

big hugs Mum!

bad or not...all we ever wanted is the truth. IMO

(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x58/rorothe/trainwreck.gif)

Thanks Sharon...BBL...ET needs to call home!

 ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyDance::

If it's any help, I posted this last week and Kermit's response is below my post.
By the way, my last two sentences are sarcasim.
************************

Monkeys - Kyle said that he discovered the trap on the screen very early Christmas morning.  That's when Tim said  "it looks like a skull".  The contents of the trap were cleaned on January 7th.  Persistence continued to use side scan sonor to map the ocean floor well into February.  Now how could they justify all of those extra weeks of searching for a missing American woman if they had already found her in the beginning of January?  They also needed to get our focus off of Persistence and the ocean search.  Viola!  Caps enters the picture to tell us about Manserat Pond.  The picture of the cage was never supposed to be released and I'm sure that caused big trouble.  All of the evidence disappeared.  The fabric sent to Quantico wasn't Natalee's blouse.  There wasn't anything else in the cage - it was just a coconut or a piece of coral.  Back to the ocean search for Peristence so that they could continue with the grids and their non profit search.

SS,
did you know CIA is hiring. BINGO great work!

Caps may be the distractor?

What if it is a staged ending and Kermot is trying to tell us this?
Meanwhile, Oe is acting as though it is a true find to be revealed later? Part of the script?
But Kermit knows that the search finding have been planted and found in same mission?

Ah, who the hell knows anymore...

This may go down as the second biggest conspiracy of all time, next to JFK.

I didn't take it that way ::MonkeyShocked::

I guess my stand is this. IF the Persistence crew gave EVERY shred of evidence to the FBI and the family -- I applaud them and how far they have gone to keep it secret. If they held back ANYTHING, they are completely at fault and deserve our wrath.

What do you consider major?  What is the criteria?  

The Silvetti Group web site http://www.jdsilvetti.com/menu.html shows some of the philanthropic efforts.  


There is also a scholarship program shown on the web site.

I'm not sure what would qualify as "major philanthropic efforts" and what would qualify an individual or group to make them.

No one can do everything, everyone can do something...all it takes is the first step toward giving.

imho

IMO in RED

Kermit: on: September 21, 2008, 03:19:32 PM
Ah Ha!
Why would Kyle have the tennis shoe. He's just a boat guy!
Now, go back and re-look at the photos and follow the trail!
and I can keep me frog legs.

Codebreaker?....I'm having flashbacks....

oceanexploration: on: January 26, 2008, 08:38:25 AM

Thought you all may find this interesting if you're willing to accept it-

To date, the Aruban police and dive team has been a tremendous help.  They've honestly done a great job. Over the last month we've established a very good working relationship based on openness and trust.  Most of the relationship success was due to getting the media out of the way and working together shoulder to shoulder over time.  We've helped each other however and whenever we can.  They've treated us with decency and respect and we have treated them as friends and allies, which they are. Most of the police and divers are new since this case started and both eager and careful to do things right.  I wish we had a month ahead of the project just to establish the relationships and trust. I know many of you would likely doubt this view, but it's based on the experiences in the field of the entire search team. I too was extremely worried, paranoid, and suspecting in the beginning.  Now, it's clear we're all working towards a common goal.  


I remember reading this and thinking:
After repeated suspicions of collusion and corruption in the past...
How in the hell would anyone trust them to do the right thing...
But, what..., they sat down over doughnuts and were assured that they were now all working towards the same common goal...problem solved...that easy.

ocean exploration: on: January 18, 2008, 02:23:58 PM 
This wasn't part of any conspiracy or diversion. The Michelle was in distress. They likely lost their mast in which case they would lose GPS positioning.  By the time they realised they were in trouble they got disoriented and didn't know where they were.  Those seas were very rough. The night can be extremely disorienting especially with clouds on the horizon, no power, and bouncing around inside of a derilict boat.  It's courtesy to respond to distress calls when you're in the vicinity. 
The Persistence is always in the vicinity where Natalee could be found.  This is why we're searching.  IMO The Aruban authorities have done nothing but help in anyway they can.
As for costing a nights work... the night was too rough to search and we would have turned towards the dock shortly anyhow. 

How is this known?

Ditto...I miss it....

I'm stoked!.....I watched it crash 5 times..... wazzup with that?...lol...

ocean exploration: on: February 28, 2008, 10:58:40 PM  
I really didn't want to respond to all this but I feel I must.  

Please stop...and carefully think things through here.  You know who I mean.

WHAT do you think you are doing?  What do you seriously think you are going to accomplish with the pics?  Don't you even think to consider for a second that we the search team, who found the trap, supervised it's sampling, recorded that video and others... are ensuring the situation is in proper hands and being taken care of appropriately and completely?    

You are not helping anything by interfering with what you do not fully understand.  Please let the authorities do their jobs without interference.  

Robin should never have posted those pics because of the stir they would cause.  She trusted (mistakenly) people's ethics on a private forum.  One of the reasons (among many) that this case has taken so long to solve is because of the Internet, media, and well intended partially-informed people's ambitions and agendas.  Stay out of business you don't belong in.  You all know I am an ally both in the field and on the net.  I have done my best to both bring success to this case and to keep people informed and updated with what information should be provided.  We the search team have worked extremely hard over a long time.  Many of you have as well.  Let's not let our frustrations get the best of us.  Let us not let our emotions interfere with what we know to be true, and let us not forget who we are and what jobs we have to do.  Let those who are responsible do their jobs.



Pretty touchy, HUH?

Key words "could be found"....

Perhaps he says this thinking of the tips he got concerning the area....

Morning Monkeys! I have been down with flu for days and trying to catch up. I have been reading so long I can't see straight. I am one of those monkeys who mostly lurks and reads, my only comments/contributions are worthless pieces of opinion, or words of hope, frustration, etc. This is all getting quite crazy. But I will say, as one who isn't in the thick of dissecting all of the truths, lies, etc....here are just a few thoughts I've had.
It seems like OE showed up when someone felt a fire needed putting out. And then OE toyed with telling Kermit it was ok to say what Kermit knows. Once Kermit pushed OE to out and out say YES, OE ran for the hills, exclaming NO along the way.
Do any answers come out of DC in just one day?
Greta gives Joran another sit down? Lets all hope she isn't letting herself get duped again, and that she has more than just Joran trying to charm her, which seemed pretty easy the first time.
Was CLW put on this board as a diversion away from the ocean search? Did he start posting pond theories around the same time this trap was supposably recovered, with the evidence being who knows where?
Anyone thinking Tim Miller is anything but a genuine man, look deep inside. He is a true hero.
someone, Eduardo I think, said he felt Beth had peace. God willing, I hope that is true.

I know my post makes little sense. Most of this makes little sense to me. I am optimistically cautious with great hope that there will be Justice for Natalee!

Hope you're feeling better roxibalboa! 

Don't forget that Greta has been saying "cover-up" all last week.

LoRain - How is damage control going?

Kermit was very clear when he said that Mos, Richardson, and ALE did not know what happened. 

What if something was taken out of the trap before Mos, Richardson, and ALE had an opportunity to even see what was in there.  The trap was discovered on Christmas morning.  ALE met on the Persistence on the 29th.  That was four days later.

Why did Caps apppear last week to tell us that Urine had gone into a panic and dismembered Natalee?  Was part of Natalee in the trap?  Tim thought so.  We've seen the photograph.

Didn't Shango say that Natalee's head would wash up on shore?

FWIW - I know who Caps is and I happen to believe in him.  I have no reason to trust Kyle, John Silvetti or Kermit MORE than I trust Capslock.  My own personal opinion.  I'm not saying that I don't also trust Kyle, John Silvetti and Kermit, just saying I also trust Caps.

 ::MonkeyDance::  ::MonkeyDance::  ::MonkeyDance::

texasmom-thank you!

klaas-ty also! if you trust Caps, Me too!

Klaas - I believe Caps also, but is it possible that he was duped and/or used?  Did someone feed him information to give us?  Clyde?  Just a thought.

I don't think so.  I could be wrong but I don't think I am. 

I think when Caps made the post about Natalee being chopped
up that he was hurt and angry that his motives were being
questioned.  He has worked really hard uncovering what he could.

i used PS a bit

(http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh25/johan555/datelinetrapbo2.jpg)

I missed that MOS had reversed himself on the admission of the tape and he viewed it as a confession.  I assume it was the DeVries tape.  Did MOS 'decide' it was admissible this past week?  I thought that a Judge had ruled it was not admissible? 

ummmm..yeah..back to the train wreck...lorain..lol...she took off..