Scared Monkeys Discussion Forum

Good Morning!

Tyler...do you still have that phone number...LOL

Will recheck Melody's posts a little later...need breakfast!


Thanks Yap

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=329.msg47506#msg47506 

Lively Case Discussion #522 9/10 - 9/12/2006 « Reply #137 on: September 10, 2006, 03:04:22 PM » 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Proof Kalpoes did not pick JVDS up at his home?

1. Saturday 5-28-05: Melody went to a party. (Made notation on her calendar)
2. Sunday 5-29-05: Melody went to the movies with her new BF. (noted on calendar because it was when she & new BF shared their 1st kiss)
3. Says she saw JVDS leaning against a pillar very near Seaport Casino (turn corner & cross the road from theater?)
4. JVDS saw her with new BF & his face turned into a "hurt" face.
5. Says she knows the time was b4 12am (midnight)
6. Checked the current schedule for Seaport Cinema: Wednesday thru Tuesday earliest show is at 4:10pm, late shows are 10:10pm & 10:20pm
7. Deepak works @ Cyberzone Internet Cafe, Seaport Mall. (Sunday hours: 2pm - 10pm)
8. **On 8-3 BETH stated to "CNN” that while she was in Alabama BETH learned from a “Mountain Brook High School” male 2005 graduate that on 5-29 at 11:00 PM Prime Suspect J. SLOOT was already with Current Suspect D. KALPOE (he was not leaving the “Holiday Inn,” he was not walking towards or at the “McDonald’s” as he claimed, and he was not with Current Suspect P. SLOOT) and Prime Suspect J. SLOOT offered another “Mountain Brook High School” male a ride back to the “Holiday Inn.”
(from World Journier timeline)
 
So, if JVDS was already with Kalpoe by 11pm, where did they go b4 Carlos n Charlies? Sounds like PVDS changed the time he picked JVDS up @ McDonald's to again cover for the lying sporter
 

This is a Crab Cage

(http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh25/johan555/crabcage.jpg)

Mum, sorry I got busy eating grits ( ::MonkeyTongue::).  I know some of you cannot stand them ( ::MonkeyNoNo::) but I have to have a fix about once a year ( ::MonkeyHaHa::) and it was time.

That phone number has long since been gone.   ::MonkeyWink:: You know how I know that, right?  She inadvertently posted it at RWV and some captured it before Dan took it down....but it was soon changed.  I had a feeling this was a phone the VDS family had given her to use but that is a long story and I expect her feelings toward the Sloots has probably changed.

Lord, have mercy! That looks like a cattle cage.

LOL...Tyler...Have never even tried grits!

No...I didn't recall the phone number story...lol...You have to be quick! Any chance the posts from Melody about those 2 nights were helped along by Anita?

I recall the interview Beth did, about Joran being seen and got sidetracked in Shango looking for it!

BLEACHEDBLACK,

You missed my point.

My point was that Amy has been missing since March 1998.

The pics in your tinyurl surfaced in 2005 - SEVEN YEARS LATER.

The Bradleys have always held an 'Amy is Alive' vigil since day one.   

I was just wondering why Beth doesn't think Natalee is not alive - that's all - since almost day one.

What I got from last night was Greta trying to give Beth hope that perhaps Natalee could still be alive, but Beth told her no.

My question is what does Beth know that makes her so sure Natalee is not alive?


(Amy link below)

http://www.amybradley.net/amy-story.htm

 

Hi Poochy,

I think one reason Beth was pretty sure early on that Natalee had died was because she was told that Natalee probably was, based on the amount of blood in the Kalpoes' car. You know - the blood that miraculously turned to chocolate later on.  ::MonkeyNoNo::

Hi BT and Poochy...IIRC Beth was told this pretty much by the FBI around 10.30PM on June 10th. in the HI lobby. Well that is what was in a lot of the early posts.

There are some interviews around with Paul Reynolds about this as well. One I recall is about Beth calling her Mom.

Blonde...Is the door locked?  How are you posting in the old thread...I am confused enough this morning...LOL

LOL...Thanks...Kept looking for your post on this page! I was ::MonkeyConfused::

 ::MonkeyHaHa::

Anyone have the date of when Greta announced this new show on Gretawire...TIA

May have ben bought here by Lisa...

I don't think that Paulus and Joran would have had a telephone
conversation in English.  They would have spoken Dutch IMO

Mum from last thread:

I sure about the first 2 -- not sure of the Devries/Thailand recording -- but it was AFTER Greta's in June '08.

Yes, and I don't THINK Paulus is that stupid to speak an incriminating conversation over an open phone that could be wiretapped.

Blonde, there is a post by Kyle where he definately says that
human remains were found.  I just didn't feel like contesting the
point last night.  After a long period in sea water, I don't know what
would remain other than bones.

I don't think that Paulus is that stupid either but am I losing it? They were speaking in Dutch, weren't they? :lol:

Fallout from Joran van der Sloot's 'On the Record' Interview

Wednesday, November 26, 2008

This is a rush transcript from "On the Record ," November 25, 2008. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

GRETA VAN SUSTEREN, FOX NEWS HOST: You heard Joran van der Sloot say on tape that he sold Natalee Holloway and that he told his father about it. Now, according to Joran, there is a recording of Joran and his father talking about it. Now, we have that recording. You will hear that recording shortly.

But first, what did Joran's father, Paulus, say? Did Joran really tell his father about this? We contacted Paulus van der Sloot multiple times, but he would not respond. We went down to Aruba with former prosecutor Jim Hammer to confront Paulus van der Sloot with this new information. We approached Paulus at his office, asking him to react to what Joran told us. How did Paulus react?

Jim Hammer joins us live. All right, Jim, what happened?

JIM HAMMER, FORMER ASSISTANT SAN FRANCISCO DA: Well, Greta, first of all finding Paulus is not the easiest thing. There was a lot of staking out that happens, and that tends to be just like watching the clock pass by. We went by his house, went by his office. Finally, after staking his office out one morning, there he came. I ran out to the front of his office and confronted him there. And he wanted to slip away right way, but then I said, I've got some tapes here. Joran says he's been talking to you about Natalee Holloway. That got him stopped him in his tracks, Greta.
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At that point -- and they can see it in the tape there -- I hold the transcript of the actual recordings up to him and I start reading to him. They say -- he says, "But if I come forward" -- this is Joran -- "I can end all of this." His father's listening at that point. And then his father says this. And I'll tell you, to this day, it really troubles me. His father says, "But what you've done is pretty bad. Human trafficking is a serious crime."

I mean, I'm still left with shivers when I hear that. He read it along with me, asked for a copy of it, walked to his office. And I said, you know, Will you help us? Joran says that she still could be alive. At that point, he went in. I knocked on the door for a bit longer. When he came out, I said, Listen, Joran says she may still be alive. Will you help us find her? And he closed the door on my face.

VAN SUSTEREN: How was his English? Because one of the things is that, you know, we've had a hard time communicating with him. He says he can't speak English. Did you have a hard time speaking with him?

HAMMER: He spoke fine English. And again, if he had any problems speaking English, he wouldn't have been reading the transcript along with me. And I read him piece by piece, the part where he says, "Human trafficking is a serious crime," where Joran says, "You know, I could be -- let go of this whole thing if they find her alive." He paid very close attention to what I was saying, and in perfect English said, May I have a copy of that, please?

At that point, I said, I want to talk to you more about it and he went into his office. Not one time, Greta, did he have any problem understanding what we were talking about.

VAN SUSTEREN: Did he deny that he had spoken to his son and that that was a transcript of a conversation?

HAMMER: Not once. And again, it strikes me that if this were a complete fabrication or a complete off (ph), he had an opportunity to say, That's ridiculous, that never happened. He read along with me with very rapt attention, and I can't read his mind, but seemed somewhat startled by this whole thing and very intent on what I was showing him that day.

VAN SUSTEREN: Did he act confused at all, like he didn't understand what you were showing him?

HAMMER: Not once, never asked me to repeat it. He didn't interrupt me. I read these key passages to him. And again, he read along with me, Greta, as though he could understand exactly what was happening, and then in perfect English said, May I have a copy of that? I handed it him and then started to follow him in. But again, no sense whatsoever, Greta, that he -- he either disagreed with this and/or didn't understand what I was talking with him about.

VAN SUSTEREN: Did you get the copy back?

HAMMER: I didn't. I did after he made a photocopy inside the office. I left him the number where we were staying. I asked him to please call. We also talked to his law partner, who I think has represented the Kalpoe brothers, again, trying to get some verification a number of times. And polite secretaries but no phone call back.

VAN SUSTEREN: Jim, thank you. And always nice to see you.

HAMMER: Thanks, Greta. You, too.

VAN SUSTEREN: Coming up: Will this new development push the Aruban authorities into action? John Q. Kelly, the lawyer for Natalee's parents, joins us live. And later, you'll hear from Natalee's mother.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VAN SUSTEREN: More than three years after Natalee Holloway vanished on the island of Aruba, Joran Van Der Sloot has come forward to tell us that he sold Natalee Holloway for a bag full of cash to a mystery man on the beach. Then he contacted me to say it was all a lie.

John Q. Kelly, the lawyer for Natalee's parents, joins us live. John, just in talking to Jim Hammer, just as an aside, it occurred to me that assuming this conversation with his father was legitimate -- and we heard what John -- what Jim said about it -- this occurred in January of '08 that they're talking about trafficking. We did our interview about six months later in June, and he's talking about human trafficking. So there's a sense that that somehow -- you know, at least it's not a new story in June, if it's a lie.

Anyway, what's your thought on all this?

JOHN Q. KELLY, ATTORNEY FOR NATALEE HOLLOWAY'S PARENTS: You know, the most logical explanation of how Natalee could disappear, absolutely vanish into air within a half hour of being dropped off at the beach with Joran is consistent with what he said. And all the other evidence points towards it, too, that she was led down to the fisherman's hut, she was led to the shore, you know, alive, well, and led onto a small sports utility vehicle, and you know, very willingly got on board and before she knew what was happening and Joran didn't get on board, you know, the boat took off and she was subdued eventually.

VAN SUSTEREN: Now, there is absolutely no forensic evidence of a homicide, and I mean, which is unusual...

KELLY: Right.

VAN SUSTEREN: ... Not necessarily dispositive of what happened. But that's -- I mean, for someone who's inexperienced to commit a murder and not leave a hair, a blood, or anything anyplace is extremely significant. Now, let me ask you this.

KELLY: Sure.

VAN SUSTEREN: Has the prosecutor followed up on everything? Because it's the prosecutor's job to prove or disprove. And I've got a real beef with this prosecutor. He won't look at this tape. But has he satisfied you that he's chased down every lead?

KELLY: Well, not at all, Greta. I mean, there are really simple things. I mean, there was the big issue about where are Joran's size 14 Swiss K shoes? I mean, if he led her down to the beach and she and Natalee -- he and Natalee were carrying their shoes, he would have helped her on, she'd put her sandals on, and if he just threw on his shoes but instead of getting on just pushed the boat off, you know, his shoes would be gone with Natalee and her sandals.

I mean, there have been all kinds of things. There are phone logs there. I've asked for the surveillance tapes from the casinos. I haven't gotten them. I've asked him to review them. He hasn't gotten back to me on those. I've asked for phone records. I haven't gotten those. I've asked for backup on witness interviews. I haven't gotten those.

And Greta, it's just -- it's almost too simple, when you step back and look at it, what probably happened that night. It's really scary.

VAN SUSTEREN: All right, now, I would -- if I were the prosecutor, I'd want to look at wire transfers, both the ones -- we have a number of a wire transfer that he should investigate from January, but even to see whether or not -- Joran says there was a payoff of some police -- whether or not there was cash drawn down from Paulus van der Sloot's account. I'd get a subpoena on that. I'd get a subpoena on all his relatives to see if any money was (INAUDIBLE)

KELLY: Sure.

VAN SUSTEREN: Anything to sort of piece together to see whether or not this is true or not, the surveillance video -- what surveillance video do you want him to look at?

KELLY: Well, for starters, if you recall -- and it was sort of pushed aside by the law enforcement also, when Joran is sitting in the Excelsior casino with Natalee and her friends, there's a middle-aged Caucasian gentlemen sitting there who actually speaks to Natalee and the other girls. And I just want to know -- you know, he absolutely fits the description of the man Joran describes. He actually looks a lot like Paulus, too.

And I just want to see whether he had talked to that man before the girls arrived, whether he talked to that man after the girls left. And quite remarkably, Hans Mos told me they've never even identified who that man is to this day.

VAN SUSTEREN: Does Hans Mos want to help investigate Deepak and Satish and Paulus or not?

KELLY: No. In fact, the first call I made to him, he said -- he asked if this had anything to do with the Dr. Phil litigation, and if it did, he would not help me because he totally supports Satish and Deepak.

And the other thing is -- let me just add, Greta, you know, Aruba is a tourist island. Their commerce -- they can survive if the story is -- you know, is one aberrant act by a young man who got caught up and panicked on an accidental death of a young girl there. That they can live with. But you know, for several young men conspiring and plotting and putting someone into human trafficking, adults covering it up, law enforcement covering it up, government officials looking away, that's something Aruba can't survive.

And I think that's why when you go down there and you present them with things or ask them questions, they want to disprove everything you say or not listen to it, rather than go after it.

VAN SUSTEREN: Well, that's my rub, is they won't even investigate, you know, any of this that we have.

KELLY: Sure.

VAN SUSTEREN: You know, just investigate it. Prove it or disprove it, one or the other. John, thank you.

KELLY: Sure, Greta.

VAN SUSTEREN: Coming up: You heard Joran van der Sloot in an interview done in Thailand say he sold Natalee, but eight hours later, before we had even gotten out of Thailand, an e-mail flashed across my BlackBerry. Joran said he lied to us. Did Joran lie to us? And if so, when? When he said he sold Natalee or eight hours later, when he said it was not true? Joran's lawyer, Joe Tacopina, joins us next.

Plus, you will hear an audio recording. Joran says it is a conversation between his father and him. And two of the words mentioned on the recording that you need to pay close attention to are human trafficking. You have to hear this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VAN SUSTEREN: Joran van der Sloot says he told his father Paulus that he sold Natalee Holloway to a man in Aruba. Joran says he recorded conversations between his father an him that refer to this sale and could possibly corroborate what he told us on tape.

In a moment you will hear one of those recordings that Joran says took place early in 2008. Now, we have repeatedly reached out to Joran's van der Sloot's father Paulus, but he has refused to respond.

We cannot verify whether if the voices on the tape are Joran and his father. The prosecutor in Aruba could do this with his subpoena power. And note, Joran says this is his father on the recording.

We had two different experts analyze if the recording was altered. One expert is confident it is not altered, while the other expert has concerns that the recording may have been modified. Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

J. VAN DER SLOOT: Hi, dad, how are you?

P. VAN DER SLOOT: I'm all right, you?

J. VAN DER SLOOT: I'm sort of fed up. I can't stand it any longer.

P. VAN DER SLOOT: Joran, hang in there a bit longer. You must keep tough.

J. VAN DER SLOOT: I just want it to be over. I don't care what will happen to me.

P. VAN DER SLOOT: I understand, but too much has happened. You have to be strong.

J. VAN DER SLOOT: I do my best, but I really don't know. I feel rotten.

P. VAN DER SLOOT: Joran, you have no choice.

J. VAN DER SLOOT: Yes, I can come forward and end this.

P. VAN DER SLOOT: Yeah, not a good idea, I think. You have to think about us too.

J. VAN DER SLOOT: Yes, I will do that, but if they find the girl, there is at least proof I didn't hurt anybody.

P. VAN DER SLOOT: But what you have done is pretty bad. Human trafficking is a serious crime.

J. VAN DER SLOOT: I know, but how could I know where all this would lead to?

P. VAN DER SLOOT: Joran, it's a shame you made certain choices, but there has to be a moment it will stop. Okay? You cannot talk with anyone about this, do you understand?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAN SUSTEREN: Joran van der Sloot's lawyer, Joe Tacopina, joins us live. Joe, am I right, you still do represent Joran?

JOE TACOPINA, ATTORNEY FOR JORAN VAN DER SLOOT: I represent him, Greta, for the purpose of the Aruba investigation, which for all intents and purposes is over.

Quite frankly, when you asked me to come on last week or a few weeks ago, I hadn't seen this tape. Had I seen this first, I probably would have declined your invitation, Greta, because I just - we could do this - and look, obviously you paid him some money to either give him a tape recording or have him give you tapes or to submit to an interview.

VAN SUSTEREN: Stop there. Let me explain something.

TACOPINA: Please.

VAN SUSTEREN: Just so you get it right. He contacted us. He said he had a tape.

TACOPINA: Yes.

VAN SUSTEREN: I said we couldn't buy it, but we could license it. That's what the media does. You license photos, you license recordings, you license tape.

He gave us the tape. We've had it sent to someone to have it checked out if there were problems with it. I went to Thailand to find out what the story was on the tape to fill in the blanks to corroborate it.

TACOPINA: OK. So whatever I have - I mean, an email from one of your producers, Steph Watts, you know, to Joran, talking about the Western Union transaction. Greta, look --

VAN SUSTEREN: That is how the money is transferred. There's no secret. There's no secret.

TACOPINA: You paid him for a tape that he made and wound up getting an hour interview with him. And so be it, Greta. Great TV, great ratings- -

VAN SUSTEREN: Do you have a problem with that?

TACOPINA: Yes, I do have a problem with it, Greta, because if you offered Joran $10,000 tomorrow and ask him to tell you a fifth story, he would do it.

Clearly, he's a sick kid. Clearly, I have nothing to say in defense of his actions, Greta. OK?

VAN SUSTEREN: Do you deny...?

TACOPINA: But I still tell you, and I stand by the notion that the investigation regarding the disappearance of Natalee Holloway has not led to Joran. That's the bottom line.

No one expects anyone to believe anything this kid has to say anymore. Quite frankly, he's on the verge of sociopath and despicable, but--

VAN SUSTEREN: Explain something to me, Joe.

TACOPINA: Please.

VAN SUSTEREN: According to the timeline --I'm trying to figure this out, because I really want this investigated. That's why we're bringing this information in.

TACOPINA: Really?

VAN SUSTEREN: Now stop. There's has been resistance from Aruba. There has been resistance from you, which, of course, that's your job as the lawyer. I understand that and I have an appreciation for a defense lawyer.

TACOPINA: I know you do.

VAN SUSTEREN: But when he comes to us and says look, I have my father on tape saying about the human trafficking, this explains what happened. I'd like to find her alive is what he told us.

Of course, I didn't believe that it was true, that she could possibly be alive. But he said that he sold her.

So I said "What do you have?" And he came to us. We didn't go after him.

TACOPINA: Greta, that's fine. But look at the source. He's told so many different versions.

VAN SUSTEREN: All right, but what about his father in - what - how do you justify what his father said on this tape? Is his father also telling us different versions?

TACOPINA: Oh, that tape--

VAN SUSTEREN: Skip Joran. What -- Is the tape made up?

TACOPINA: I spoke to Paulus last night as this was going on. I mean, talk about a guy-- you don't know Paulus. I do. Paulus is a simpleton.

VAN SUSTEREN: Is this tape made up? Is this tape just crazy?

TACOPINA: He absolutely denies ever having that conversation, ever. So yes, I believe that tape's false.

Think about it for a second--

(CROSSTALK)

VAN SUSTEREN: So we can do a comparison, so we can check it out? I'm willing to check it out.

TACOPINA: Listen, Greta, Greta, just hold on a second. Think about the logic of this. Joran calls you and tape-recorded an incriminating conversation with his father. Why? For what purpose? So he could sell it to you? I mean, why would he have an incriminating tape recording of himself and his father?

VAN SUSTEREN: All I'm trying to do, Joe, all I want to do, Joe, is try to find out - stop.

(CROSSTALK)

TACOPINA: If that's the case, why in July did you have this interview, and why hasn't it not been turned over - why didn't you just send it to the authorities? How about the FBI? Did they get a copy of this?

VAN SUSTEREN: Because if you want to know the practical matter, no sooner than we had it done, we needed to corroborate it to make sure it wasn't lies, because he named a lot of people. In fact, if you notice, we bleeped out some names as we're trying to investigate.

Then we went into what you may have noticed was a presidential election. So we've been busy doing that.

TACOPINA: Oh, but you don't have to do this investigation, Greta. Give the tape to the FBI. They're not involved in the presidential election.

VAN SUSTEREN: The FBI has no jurisdiction, for god's sakes. You know that.

TACOPINA: Oh, they can't investigate? You know they investigated this case!

VAN SUSTEREN: Joe, let me find out one thing--if this is a made-up tape, give me a voice sampling from Paulus van der Sloot so that I can do a voice comparison analysis. There is a forensic way to do that. Get that for me, and if this turns out to be a lie, I'll say this tape is a lie.

TACOPINA: FOX News does not - as much as I respect you and this network, FOX News is not the end-all, be-all for investigative services. There is a law enforcement agency involved. So you don't just say, give you the power of attorney. Or give you a voice sample.

VAN SUSTEREN: If you're saying this tape is a fraud, I'm willing to investigate it, and I'm willing to say if it is a fraud, I'll say on the air we did this analysis of Paulus Van Der Sloot's voice to the tape, and it's wrong. I'm willing to do that. But if you come on and tell me it's not true, at least give me the ability to prove or disprove it.

TACOPINA: Let me just say this, let me say this -- I'm not saying it's true or not. I'm telling you what Paulus said. I wasn't there. I wasn't a witness to any of this.

VAN SUSTEREN: Call Paulus up right now and we'll go into the green room and say, Paulus, give them a voice sample, if this is a fraud.

TACOPINA: Greta, why was this tape not sent to the authorities, then? Why hold it until like November if you did this in July if you really think - because you said on the interview last night, you said to Joran when you were trying to get him to speak, you said what if she's still alive, Joran? I still think there is a chance Natalee could still be alive. Time is of the essence. Why? Because of the elections?

VAN SUSTEREN: Joe, because you know what, unlike you and the others, I've been spending my weekends actually working on this case. Do not criticize me for not working it. It's 2008.

TACOPINA: Don't be defensive, please, Greta. I'm not criticizing you for working. But send the tape to an authority. Send the tape to an authority. That's all I'm saying. I'm not saying you're not working on it.

VAN SUSTEREN: If they're willing to use their police powers, subpoena power to subpoena a voice exemplar from Joran van der Sloot, and our FBI doesn't have the authority, but the Aruban prosecutor does, he's got it. He can have it.

TACOPINA: So you have conditions on giving over possibly incriminating evidence?

VAN SUSTEREN: No.

TACOPINA: You have the tape, send them the tape right now.

VAN SUSTEREN: Do something, not sit on it. Not to just sit on it.

TACOPINA: I have no control over that, Greta. You know that. Ok? You know I have no control over it.

VAN SUSTEREN: You do have control over getting a voice sample from your client. Get it and you and I can both go to the forensic expert together. I'll go with you.

TACOPINA: Greta, I know for a fact, because you said it many times, "That doesn't make sense, Joran." That doesn't make sense. You don't believe a word he was saying on that interview last night, do you?

VAN SUSTEREN: You're dodging. You're dodging. Get me the voice sample.

(CROSSTALK)

TACOPINA: Listen, it's not my voice, OK!

VAN SUSTEREN: Get me the voice sample and you ... Joe, I got to go.

TACOPINA: Greta, send the tape to the investigators and I'll give you a voice sample. How about that?

VAN SUSTEREN: Right. They're real busy investigating. Joe, thank you.

TACOPINA: Bye.

VAN SUSTEREN: Joran says he traded Natalee Holloway for $10,000 but got shorted $400. Joran said he handed her off to a mystery man who took her on a boat.

This is completely different from what he was caught on tape in Holland saying earlier this year. And does she think Natalee is still alive? You will hear from Natalee Holloway's mother Beth, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(NEWS BREAK)

VAN SUSTEREN: Eighteen-year-old Natalee Holloway disappeared in Aruba on May 30, 2005. Joran van der Sloot has been arrested twice but never charged with a crime.

In 2006 Joran went "On the Record" saying he left her on the beach.

But then in February, '08, a hidden camera in Holland caught Joran saying that she had passed out and he had disposed of her body. And now Joran says he sold Natalee for thousands of dollars to a man who wanted a blonde girl.

Joran says Natalee was taken away onto a boat with this mystery man, and that she did not struggle. He then says he was lying.

And we spoke with Natalee Holloway's mother, Beth.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

VAN SUSTEREN: What's sort of racing through your mind, your thoughts? We've obviously dropped a sort of 10-pound balloon on your head. I don't know whether it's true or it's not. We dragged you up here to New York, so you knew something was up. What are you thinking about?

BETH HOLLOWAY, NATALEE'S HOLLOWAY'S MOTHER: The main thing I go back to, I think about Joran in the car with Patrick. I can't -- it's hard for me to just discount that.

I feel like I'm trying to balance both, OK? So we've got two latest scenarios within `08, basically, coming out in 2008.

Like you said, keeping a lot of the elements are the same, a lot of the elements of the story are the same. Just changing, he just keeps changing some of the -- now he's saying, you know, she's alive, versus, you know, not alive.

It's a transaction versus, you know, a panic mode, because this was all evidently well thought out, planned, executed. He had to line it up, he had to grab a girl. I don't think it was Natalee in particular, I think it's just whoever he could get for that, whoever he could get. I think that's how it went down.

Natalee I think just happened to be the one he happened to get, not that she was sought out, picked out. I don't think that. He just got one.

But -- so it's changing quite a bit of elements from fully executed and planned to an accident. So it's just hard, you know, it's just hard with him, because he, boy, he can go off in some different directions pretty quickly.

And it's hard to deny that conversation with his father. And it was definitely a tight window. I know that. I know he had a tight window of that night of what he said he did. And if you have an accident, it sure is hard to think that quick on your feet. An hour and 20 minutes -- what did he have, an hour and 20 minutes?

VAN SUSTEREN: Not much time.

HOLLOWAY: It's pretty hard to think that quick on your feet in panic mode. You think that quick on your feet if you have something fully planned.

VAN SUSTEREN: Is this what you expected when I told you to come up here?

HOLLOWAY: No.

VAN SUSTEREN: What did you expect?

HOLLOWAY: What did I expect? I just wait until it unfolds. I try not to go there anymore. I just wait until I hear it, because you just got to think, I mean, I just want to be so careful and not--before we make a move, because, I mean you're the one who taught me once you go down a road, once you knock down that wall, you can't go back.

So I realize every step that's made we can't turn around and go back.

VAN SUSTEREN: Do you think she's alive?

HOLLOWAY: I don't. I mean I'd love to be proven wrong, but no, I don't.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VAN SUSTEREN: Coming up, Joran van der Sloot says the first person he told about selling Natalee Holloway was his teacher, a teacher he was close with. Is that the real story? We searched for Joran's teacher. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VAN SUSTEREN: Joran says the first person he confided in about selling Natalee was one of his high school teachers. Joran says he and the teacher were close and the teacher told him to tell the truth. We promised you we will keep investigating, so we flew across America and tracked down one of Joran's teachers.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

VAN SUSTEREN: Steve, first of all, I guess there's no secret that we sort of just showed up on your doorstep.

STEVE SCHMUTZ: Yes.

VAN SUSTEREN: And you're being a good sport about this. You know Joran van der Sloot?

SCHMUTZ: Yes.

VAN SUSTEREN: How did you meet him?

SCHMUTZ: I had him in class at the International School of Aruba.

VAN SUSTEREN: How long did you teach there?

SCHMUTZ: I taught there for two years, and I had him for one year as a student.

VAN SUSTEREN: The two years that you taught there, was that his junior and senior year, or was that his senior year and then the year since then?

SCHMUTZ: His senior year and the first year he was in college.

VAN SUSTEREN: I take it you've heard about Natalee Holloway.

SCHMUTZ: Yes.

VAN SUSTEREN: When did you first hear Natalee disappeared?

SCHMUTZ: Either Monday after school or Tuesday at school. I can't remember if it was Monday after school or if it was Tuesday at school. I'm not sure.

VAN SUSTEREN: When was the first time you saw Joran after hearing that information?

SCHMUTZ: I don't remember if it was at school on Tuesday, but either Tuesday or Wednesday after school at a health club was the first time I spoke with him.

VAN SUSTEREN: Did he come over to you or did you call him over? Or did he call you over?

SCHMUTZ: He came over and spoke with me. I was exercising at the time, and he came into the room and came over and told me what had happened.

VAN SUSTEREN: How do you characterize your relationship at that point? Were you a teacher who was close to him leading up to that, or he was just one of nine or 10 students?

SCHMUTZ: No. We got along well. I would say in the class, I got along well with all of the seniors. It was a pretty close group, close-knit group.

VAN SUSTEREN: When he told you what happened, what, to the best of your recollection, and I realize it's been three years, but what do you remember he told you when you talked to him at the health club?

SCHMUTZ: He told me a similar story to the one that he originally told the authorities, and that was he left Carlos and Charlie's with the Kalpoes and Natalee, and that they went to, as he said, see the sharks, that she wanted to see the sharks, and that he later dropped her off at her hotel.

VAN SUSTEREN: And that was the sum total? There was never any discussion about drugs, alcohol, anything like that?

SCHMUTZ: Not to my recollection. He might have said something that she was drunk or that she'd been drinking. Nothing that really stuck in my mind.

VAN SUSTEREN: Did you know who the Kalpoes were?

SCHMUTZ: No. Never knew who they were.

VAN SUSTEREN: Do you remember if he used their names?

SCHMUTZ: I think he might have said they're friends. Of course, it came up in the news right away, so we knew who they were by virtue of the media. But I had never come across them before.

VAN SUSTEREN: Have you ever met the Kalpoes?

SCHMUTZ: No.

VAN SUSTEREN: Did he ever mention anything about selling her?

SCHMUTZ: No.

VAN SUSTEREN: And is that something that would probably stand out in your mind?

SCHMUTZ: Oh, yes. And it's something that I probably would have mentioned to other people around that time, friends of mine that I worked with. We were talking about the story, we were following it on the news. We couldn't get away from it.

VAN SUSTEREN: Between the time that he was arrested on June 9th, his graduation day, and March, when I came to Aruba and had an interview with Joran and met you for the first time, did you have any communication with Joran at all?

SCHMUTZ: Not that I can recall, and I'm not even sure if, because he was a graduating senior, they took their finals early, if they were even in school that second week during the investigation. So I don't even know if I saw him.

VAN SUSTEREN: Was there talk at all at the school--have you ever heard any talk anywhere, including any rumors, about Natalee being sold? Has that ever crossed your radar screen?

SCHMUTZ: No. We basically followed the story through the media. Most of our information -- we didn't know anything that the media already knew or was telling us. So we didn't know anything unique.

VAN SUSTEREN: So people weren't -- you didn't have your ear to the ground and hear different things about it?

SCHMUTZ: Well, we went home for the summer right after his arrest. We left I think three days later. So I followed the story through your coverage.

VAN SUSTEREN: And then you went back in the fall?

SCHMUTZ: Then we went back in the fall. And within I don't know, a few weeks after our return, he was released. And then he went over to Holland to go to school.

And at that point, the story kind of slowed down. There were moments when it came back up again in the media, but we didn't talk about it, really.

VAN SUSTEREN: So his statement to us that he told you in the days after Natalee disappeared, that he sold Natalee, that's a lie?

SCHMUTZ: That's a conversation that I don't recall ever having with him. And whether it's a lie or he's associating me with somebody else that he had that conversation with, I don't know. I can't speak for Joran. But I never had that conversation with him.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VAN SUSTEREN: Now the catch. Could it have been a different teacher who Joran confided in and Joran tried to throw us off by pointing us to this teacher?

We have brand new information that it could be a different teacher. We will have that information for you on Monday.

And still ahead, what does the Aruban prosecutor Hans Mos say about what we have uncovered? We offered to fly and meet him to show him this tape. Does he think this tape is important and worth investigating? And what is next in the investigation? Stick around.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VAN SUSTEREN: More than three years after 18-year-old Natalee Holloway disappeared from Aruba, we have brand new information.

Joran van der Sloot, one of the last people spotted with Natalee Holloway on May 30, 2005, has come forward saying he sold Natalee for about $10,000. Joran says he took the cash and walked Natalee onto a mystery man's boat. We offered to meet with the Aruban prosecutor Hans Mos to show him the tapes of Joran's latest interview with us before we aired it. But the prosecutor declined our offer and said he does not feel the contents of the tape has any value as evidence.

But we urged Holland and the Aruban authorities to look into this latest information. Could Natalee Holloway still be alive? Could she really be in Venezuela? If there is even the smallest possibility, we urge the Aruban authorities to investigate.

Though Joran told us by email eight hours after our interview in Thailand that he was lying, we don't know if he was lying or telling the truth and later got cold feet. We do know there are significant clues the Aruban prosecutor can and should follow up upon.

If Aruba, with its subpoena and police power refuses to investigate, we'll do our best to keep investigating.

Thank you for being with us tonight. Good night.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,457715,00.html

Thanks wreck...Will go back and look at the posts around November 9th.

Trying to get a timeline on this flurry of activity... ::MonkeyEek::

VAN SUSTEREN: Do you think she's alive?

HOLLOWAY: I don't. I mean I'd love to be proven wrong, but no, I don't.


http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,457715,00.html

YES VMS  ::MonkeyHaHa::

Didn't vanderStrateen say that she was dead, he knew it because "I have seen..."  blah, blah, blah.

 ::MonkeyHaHa::


Blonde...Thanks for transcript...I had to go to bed last night!

Just caught this...the teacher had Joran for his Senior year and his first year in College..

Going back to read...and piece together the point of the entire exercise! ::MonkeyRoll::

Johan.....When did Arjan first meet Joran? TIA

I wonder how the sporters latest and greatest tale ties into the 'missing shoe story'?

Actually -- how it ties in to ANY of the 'missing shoe' stories -- including the one about a single sneaker with a little blood on in the sporter's closet?

Wish Greta would have asked Freddy if this story was the truth. Freddy KNOWS the truth.

JMO

.

Yes Tyler. VDS made a comment about 'because I have seen the evidence' or something to that tone.

VDS also made a comment about the dogs brought over from Holland -- that he wouldn't tell the press what 'type' of dogs they were because that would give an indication of the direction the investigation was taking.

 ::MonkeyConfused:: ::MonkeyConfused::

He said something around June 5th. or 6th...not sure if it was that one or something else.  I looked for it a couple of weeks back and couldn't come up with the one for that date. We were discussing the mattress at that time, I think.

What Does van der Straten Know About Natalee Holloway?
h/t to Hasibokus - read more there.

In a Dutch interview Aruban Police Superintendent Jan van der Straten told the reporter that he doesn’t believe that Natalee is still alive.

With regard to Natalee’s status, van der Straaten gave the following statement to a Dutch reporter:

Translation:

Rep: Any hopes for a positive outcome?

Jan: You always have to be hopeful, but I don’t believe anymore that we will find Natalee alive.

Rep: Why not?

Jan: Because I know the details of the investigation and you don't!

Update: Apparently the translation was first provided by reader repo.

Update2 from a reader:

The correct translation of what Mr. Van der Straten said, i.e., Omdat ik het
onderzoek ken en u niet, is: "Because I am an investigator (a policeman) and you
are not." 

It is not, as earlier reported, "Because I know the details and you don't."

Friday, July 01, 2005 at 03:09 PM in Natalee Holloway | Permalink
http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2005/07/what_does_van_d.html

Looks like the date published for Hasibokus was June 11 so somewhere around there...



Mum, You and Tyler gave me the idea to do a GRITS avatar, Girls raised in the South, but I can never make them fit right...  ::MonkeyWaa::

Hiya Monkeys
As far as Beth feeling Natalee isn't alive..look at what she was told by FBI & as a Mother I can 'feel' when something isn't right with my child.

Nobody wants to talk to or about Freddy other than us. And a lot of us don't.::MonkeyHaHa::

Not sure how it ties in with the pond witness either...or the gardener at 2.30...Oops...I lied again!

"Your own father, unbelievable." 
"Deepak brought two dogs with him."
"If they find her, they will see all that shit."
"That girl, you ran over her with the car."
"I am getting out.  You just wait and see.  My brother and me, we did nothing."
"Freddy needs to tell the truth."
"You were the ones who knew those car people."
"I walked toward the fishermen hut because the wind was blowing" (to use the cell phone).
"We were carrying our shoes."
"We cleaned the car because there were ants."
"I wanted to go back for my shoes, but K2 said, 'Screw the bitch.'"
"I was out of minutes."
"We stopped and I left my cup, emptied it."
"We dropped her off..."  (Dropped her off like a package to be picked up).
"The girl was beautiful, she danced like an angel."

Just forgot something....that might be important..

"Yes, she was a virgin.  I know she was a virgin."

Did the buyer demand a virgin?  Was that what Paulus wanted?  Is Paulus a simpleton or is Joran the simpleton for doing this?

Vms...LOL...the grits or the avatar...fit right?

I thought that was the 11th...darn now I will have to look for the other one again!

Hi Yapperz.

If Joran handed her off and the Kalpoes were there,
why would the Kalpoes ask: How is the girl?

IMO if she was handed off, it was to Poppa Slootytoot & his dirty old mens club. I think the Kalpukes asked how she was because she wasn't returned to them at the racquet club dropoff point.

Poochy - probably because ALE has called it a MURDER case since day one when they falsly arrested the security guards.

Anyone know what exactly Beth is referring to here...1 Hour 20 minutes...TIA

snipped Beth

And it's hard to deny that conversation with his father. And it was definitely a tight window. I know that. I know he had a tight window of that night of what he said he did. And if you have an accident, it sure is hard to think that quick on your feet. An hour and 20 minutes -- what did he have, an hour and 20 minutes?

VAN SUSTEREN: Not much time.

In my opinion:

(1) This interview from Joran to Greta was scripted. Joran knew it would be televised; therefore, it was done with a definite purpose. Greta asked him a few questions which may have taken him out of his comfort zone which led to his standing up. "Joran, you said you wanted to get this off of your chest. How are we supposed to believe you if you are being evasive on this question" He may have wanted to tell the real truth (not the sex slave story) but knew better. He was instructed not too. He only finished the interview because he knew he would come off looking like the hot-headed kid that he is. Leopards do not lose their spots. Denying the whole stroy through email was his way of following the trend of discrediting his statements through an admitted habitual lying disorder.

(2) Once Joran knew of tape recording his father with the chip, he probably pulled out his other phone and made his dad (Daury) aware of the plan. It was a great opportunity for both, again, to follow a script of what story they wanted out there in the public. Like someone else said, do you think they would be speaking in English to one another when their language of choice was Papiamento? It was a well devised plan. Paulus had to play his part so as to come off as believable, lending credibility to Joran's fabricated confession of the so-called truth. It was a very transparent and weak effort.

(3) Multiple persons have sat in a room for hours and hours, sifting through information. They are taking known facts (ones that can not be refuted) and incorporating them into this latest concocted and well thought out story. Additionally, they are mixing in aspects that they want everyone to believe. This includes keeping thought off of the real crime scene(s). Additionally, they seek to cover as many bases as possible. They want to stick to parts of the story that people have latched on to (whether truthful or not) and run with those.

(4) Do you think Paulus would really have to pay off his friends. We do not know whose names were bleeped out, but we sure can imagine. Dompig, VanderStraaten, Vocking, Judge_____, Jacobs, Jansen, Mos. These people are Paulus' friends or controlled by Paulus' friends. Why would he have to pay them off? They, too, were involved in the cover-up and would be compelled not to reveal information, concerning their own involvement(s), for fear of global scrutiny and/or corruption charges.

(5) In conjunction with (3), there are laying the foundation for the possibility of the contents of the trap being confirmed as remains of NH. Joran turned her over to someone, who must have murdered and disposed of her body before getting to far from the island. What a waste of $10k...Or better yet, this person brought her back to the location to frame poor old high-rolling sporter Joran. What a joke...

(6) No one can rewind time. Everyone knows how critical the first 48-72 hours are in an investigation. Since the cover-up began immediately, they were buying time from the start. All focus was shifted away from the real evidence and truth so as to allow time for the clean up crew. There were a team of corrupt professionals who did their part in keeping evidence of the crime suppressed. Blood stains were cleaned, rocks were painted, witnesses were interviewed by designated persons (who asked softball questions), car seats were removed, search warrants were blocked, physical evidence was mishandled and/or purposefully lost, witnesses (those not afraid to come forth due to intimidation) were discredited and deported, peripheral participants were re-located or kept unknown, disinformants were hard at work on TV and internet steering the investigation in the wrong direction, and on and on.

(7) I am surprised that names were mentioned by Joran. I can not imagine who devised that part of the plan and how they will deal with that. I suppose they will not have to as they will discredit Joran's whole interview as being a lie. I was still taken back by it, though. Mentioning names of bribed officials by Paulus was divulging a little too much information by the stoner.

(8) I still wonder, to this day, the role of the Kalpoes. Their role is much more than just being there with Joran. I just can not put my finger on it.

(9) Aruba fought very hard in the beginning to block the role of any other international police role in the investigation on grounds of jurisdiction. Anyone other than them can only act as an advisor. Other agencies can surely test results, at their own expense or billed (doubt it). But, Aruba can send them anything they want to test. (Example: Here..Test this car seat with alleged blood on it. If the international agency is sent a replaced car seat with chocolate and cleaning fluid, what can their finding possibly be besides chocolate and cleaning fluid. Aruba then announces to the world the findings. The chain of command is what is important but never spoken of due to disinformants pushing the agenda of negative reults of the particular tested item). Aruba can make this investigation go however it sees fit. They can allow/disallow witness statements, evidence, etc so as to fit their agenda. Court proceedings may seem to follow normalcy, but the man with the robe knows the role and outcome so desired and has been instructed how to rule so as to fit an agenda.

Just some random thoughts. Does anyone else agree (or disagree)?

whow !!

I don't have the timeline in front of me, and my memory may not serve me as well as I would like at times, but off the top of my head, I think Beth is referring to the time when 'something bad happened' and the 4am pick up.  Now, I'll have to go look at a timeline to see.

Buckshot,

I would add why would Paulus do "anything" to protect his son? Why would he go to these lengths if he wasn't involved from the beginning, for a minor no less?

He remains the only one arrested for premeditated murder. I believe they had done this 20 times before and nothing happened (death) and yet, "something bad happened."

As JQK said, if this was a singular incident by Joran, Aruba could survive, but it wasn't and Paulus had to be guilty of crimes BEFORE Natalee was killed.

(3) Multiple persons have sat in a room for hours and hours, sifting through information. They are taking known facts (ones that can not be refuted) and incorporating them into this latest concocted and well thought out story. Additionally, they are mixing in aspects that they want everyone to believe. This includes keeping thought off of the real crime scene(s). Additionally, they seek to cover as many bases as possible. They want to stick to parts of the story that people have latched on to (whether truthful or not) and run with those.

I'm sure this is going on today, as we speak.

The media, including the internet, serve as testing grounds for new concocted stories. If people latch on to them as being possible, they run with them. If people unanimously reject them, they discredit, change topics, infuse distractions, and disinform.

It is such a predictable and transparent pattern by Aruba.

Thanks everybody - I guess Beth found something out the day of the pic of her collapsing in the arms of the two ALE guys (I think that's who they were) - she had a blue top/white pants I think in that pic. I don't have that pic, but I think everybody has seen it - who can't forget the anguish on her face in that pic.

It was not $10,000.  It was $400.  Who owed that amount in gambling debts and what amount did Paulus withdraw?

Thanks everybody - I guess Beth found something out the day of the pic of her collapsing in the arms of the two ALE guys (I think that's who they were) - she had a blue top/white pants I think in that pic. I don't have that pic, but I think everybody has seen it - who can't forget the anguish on her face in that pic.

Was that before or after the day she was forced to go on national televion to apologize to those involved for unsubstantiated accusations in their collective directions?

 ::MonkeyNoNo:: ::MonkeyConfused:: ::MonkeyWaa::

Sure - it's Aruba. They pull out their tin cup/dark shade routine whenever they're asked to do something.

Even Dave claims the lead investigator, Dennis Jacobs, asked Dave how much money he had

Any guesses on the amount of people
(a) invoved in the crime(s)?
(b) involved in the cover-up?

I guess:
(a) 7 people - Joran, Satish, Deepak, Paulus, Freddy, 2 other friends
and (b) 8 people - Dompig, Jansen, VanderSraaten, Jacobs, Vocking, a judge or 2, and another person.

I revised my answer. Subject to further revision...

Thanks 2NJS...I have pretty much discarded a lot of the timeline that deals with the statements and phone calls. JQK said he didn't see those records IIRC. Just trying to figure out what Beth believes to be true.

2.45 to 4.05 = 1 hour and 20 minutes.

Gardener to Pond Witness?

Morning! IMO the recorded conversation between Joran and his father is the real thing. Joran wanted to tell the truth but Greta screwed up. This open window when Joran was weak is now shut for good.

For the most part ... I am one with ya BUCKSHOT!!!

Thanks

Janet

http://www.hollowaycase.com/

These are 'excerpts' from timeline by Shizaru

I am not saying I believe these entries to be true (or false) -- just trying to come up with Beth's 1 hr 20 minutes.


1:00 am: CnCs closes, Joran, Satish, and Natalee leave CnCs together.


2:26-2:34 am: Joran calls Deepak from his cell phone (DZNH)

During the call, Joran talks to Deepak in Papi and Dutch so that Natalee will not understand. Deepak asks what happened and Joran boasts that she had given him a blow job. Deepak says that Joran is a lucky guy, and he will come and pick him up (DZNH).

During the call. Joran tells Deepak he is walking home and is in the vicinity of the McDonalds on Palm Beach. Joran is breathing heavily. He says he is walking home barefoot, because he took his shoes off to go in the water with Natalee and could not find them again. He also says he left Natalee "passed out" on the beach (D 6/11, D 6/16)

TM...do your recall when and where that was...any chance the HI on June 10th? TIA

Sorry mum, I'm not sure.  But I think if you're not right, you're very close.

On the Record w/Greta

http://www.foxnews.com/ontherecord/index.html


VIDEOS:

November 25, 2008

Why Believe Joran?
Van der Sloots Lawyer on OTR Interview

http://www.foxnews.com/video2/video08.html?maven_referralObject=3223105&maven_referralPlaylistId=&sRevUrl=http://www.foxnews.com/ontherecord/index.html


Confronting Joran's Dad
Holloway Suspect's Dad Confronted

http://www.foxnews.com/video2/video08.html?maven_referralObject=3223069&maven_referralPlaylistId=&sRevUrl=http://www.foxnews.com/ontherecord/index.html


In Need of Closure
Holloway's Mom on Joran's New Story

http://www.foxnews.com/video2/video08.html?maven_referralObject=3223100&maven_referralPlaylistId=&sRevUrl=http://www.foxnews.com/ontherecord/index.html


++++++++

TRANSCRIPT:

JOE TACOPINA
JOHN Q. KELLY
PAULUS VAN DER SLOOT
BETH HOLLOWAY
JORAN'S TEACHER

On the Record w/ Greta
Fallout From Joran van der Sloot's 'On the Record' Interview
Wednesday, November 26, 2008

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,457715,00.html

Martini - I disagree and I agree with the Dutch posters that it was scripted.

JQK : Drives a wedge between Aruba and the sloots

JOHN Q. KELLY, ATTORNEY FOR NATALEE HOLLOWAY'S PARENTS: You know, the most logical explanation of how Natalee could disappear, absolutely vanish into air within a half hour of being dropped off at the beach with Joran is consistent with what he said. And all the other evidence points towards it, too, that she was led down to the fisherman's hut, she was led to the shore, you know, alive, well, and led onto a small sports utility vehicle, and you know, very willingly got on board and before she knew what was happening and Joran didn't get on board, you know, the boat took off and she was subdued eventually...And the other thing is -- let me just add, Greta, you know, Aruba is a tourist island. Their commerce -- they can survive if the story is -- you know, is one aberrant act by a young man who got caught up and panicked on an accidental death of a young girl there. That they can live with. But you know, for several young men conspiring and plotting and putting someone into human trafficking, adults covering it up, law enforcement covering it up, government officials looking away, that's something Aruba can't survive.

Short of a devastating hurricane, can one imagine any more conclusive tourism industry death blow than this?

I don't know whether JQK, or any of the informed players, really believes this human trafficking story.  But JQK uses this as a basis to slam Aruba -- big time.

And this is a point where the sloots interests, and the interests of Aruba, diverge significantly.  And Kelly is driving a wedge between the two and separating the competing interests and setting them up in opposition.

The sloots likely springboarded into the trafficking story, as a way to distance themsleves from direct implication in a murder, etc. -- but by taking the path they have chosen (trafficking), they have put Aruba in an even more dangerous place.  Who would consider Aruba as a "family-friendly" tourist destination when young girls are kidnapped off beaches and sold to men in boats -- never to return?

Kelly and the Holloway family want Mos to get off his ass and get this investigation moving -- they are doing so by setting up the sloots and Aruba for a fight.  And the best part is that the sloots handed this to everyone on a silver platter, by "volunteering" the trafficking story, and providing strong corroboration via the goon's recent adventures in the Thai sex slave scene.

.

Thanks Sharon...I couldn't find an exact time for them leaving C&Cs...They were all ushered outside and I couldn't find a time they saw the other students and Natalee leaned out the window...

David Kock said they made a stop. I think this was a slip, therefore possible.

Then the jogger at 3AM? and also AG's cousin at 2AM? Couldn't find anything that said which way the cousin said they were going on the main road.

Thanks, Sharon....I agree that there are a lot of things in this timeline (which looked at also) that are questionable.  It also could be 1:40 at Sloot home to 3:00am (ish) Joran telling Deepak he's home, or 2:30 Gardener to 4am pick up (not on timeline) or...........it made me dizzy so that's why I hadn't responded.. ::MonkeyConfused::

(http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn82/texasmom_55/VIDEO/th_07052005BethsPlea.jpg) (http://s302.photobucket.com/albums/nn82/texasmom_55/VIDEO/?action=view&current=07052005BethsPlea.flv)

I hope this works, it is a portion of the speech that Beth made on July 4, 2005 that some in Aruba said she needed to apologize for.   ::MonkeyNoNo::

I still can't watch it without crying.  That last sentence....heartbreaking.   :smt022

Thanks...I remember reading about a reporter being there at around 10.30PM.

Revised (2). I hadn't seen the tapes.

Great observations Hammer...I was going "What!" reading JQK's words in the transcript this morning!

Thanks!

The first time this image appeared ... five days following Natalee's disappearance ... it was associated with the following article.  The photo no longer appears on the page.

This photo was my mainstay when the trolls who posted on the forum at CourtTV ... the trolls who later broke away and formed RU ... implied that Beth was not acting like a grieving mother.

Janet

_________


Three Probed in Missing Teen Case
Saturday, June 04, 2005

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,158598,00.html

Hammer,

You're right on. Kelly may or may not believe the trafficking story, but it's perfect to go with it for the sake of pressure.

I hope he lobbies our government to use this information to put a ban on travel to Aruba.

Aruba needs to prove how they know Natalee's dead.

Where's Jossy? He was the one who had a reporter chasing what they thought was Natalee in Venezuela in the first weeks.

The 1.40 at the Sloot's house came from a statement, so I just tried to ignore. But believes Natalee was there, and so do I...From 2 until the gardener saw them?

Seems Beth knows how much time when she asks Greta...It will bother me now!

Dont' know what Paulus withdrew but I thought he was depositing what Joran won for him while sitting in his spot at the ca$ino. But now that you mention it - both Joran and Paulus seemed the need to account for a couple hundred dollars put into a bank account...

A few things came to mind when I read your post:

1) Was it Ruth who lost over $300 of her 'daddy's money' and Joran helped win about $100 back, then told her to stop gambling?

2) Supposedly a Natalee look-a-like was staying in the same H.I room as Natalee's earlier in the week w/a dude. The dude bought drugs, but also owed one of the two security guards arrested in Nat's case some $drug. The dude told the sec guard that the look-a-like would pay up and then the dude left the island. The look-a-like was threatened by the sec guard. When the look-a-like came back to the states, she called the FBI when she recognized one of the arrested sec guards as the one who threatened her. (I have always wondered why the 2 sec guards haven't sued like Paulus did....)

The MBers said a sec guard tried to break into Natalee's room.

Natalee was seen talking to someone for 30 min. earlier that night.

(Reminds me of the codetalker 'Why did the girl owe money' and 'what did the girl do earlier in the week' -earlier in the week Natalee wasn't in Aruba...the look-a-like was).

Hammer - I referred to it last night as a chess game. 

Image #77
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/caribbean/sfl-missinginaruba.gallery,0,4839897.photogallery

Thanks Janet...That early!!!

Thanks vms!   ::MonkeyCool::

I was wondering..if perhaps...with Greta's show & JQK's statment (also Pdv Thailand sting) regarding human trafficking....if this would permit the FBI or some type of International Court to intervene & take over the investigation?   Perhaps this is all intentional!  We can only hope!!

Thanks vms...Hmmmm!!!

Before the mattress...Before the Security Guards!

Glenda Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 9:08 am @ RU

Obviously, I don't know what Mos told JQK. I do know that JQK did his best to get a copy of that Casino Tape and other tapes from other casinos where the man seen talking to Natalee might be playing at the same tables as Joran.

I was told in 2005 by one of the leads on the case that the Man was 100% not PvdS and they identified him as a guest of the resort and not a chaperone. 

Ok. It must be a fact..
 ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyLaugh:: ::MonkeyHaHa::

Maybe Beth Holloway's timeline is based on the Gardener's testimony.  Carlos Ramos' observation took place at 2:30 AM on the morning of May 30, 2005 and ... would appear that Natalee had already met her demise.

Janet
__________

THE GARDENER

Carlos Ramos - Gardener
Court Hearing
August 15, 2005

I have seen the car in the morning of 30 May of Sunday on Monday. I went to Lorena on Monday night, then I went to work, told that I saw a car standing along the way when I drove along there. I cannot remember on which day I saw the photograph of the persons in the newspaper. The photograph, which the police force showed me, is the same photograph as the photograph that appeared in the Diario. You ask me how can I know or recognize the persons from the photograph in the newspaper or that I had seen that night. The first time then I saw the photograph in the Diario I had been astonished and I said that to colleagues. You represent me that I have explained that I have recognized the persons from their construction and mail hour. You ask me if I could see from my position in the car. My position was a bit is higher, in the turning I had drive concerning a sand hill as a result of which my position was a bit slanted. As a result, I could look at in the car. I have recognized the car from the rims. Also to the color and the transparent squares. You ask me if I can designate the persons, which sat in the car. Yes.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=271.msg41646;topicseen#msg41646


Gardener - Carlos Alberto Penata Ramos
Court Testimony
August 15, 2005

I looked and saw that on my watch it was at 02:30. For 03.00 I was at my work. I’m not sure exactly how precise it is. When I encountered the car in question, it was on that dirt road. I had slowed down to drive past there. The lights of my car "from" shining on that car. The person beside the driver, kept its hand for its head and face. I saw that the driver slid a bit to the back.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=271.msg41646;topicseen#msg41646


JOSSY MANSUR

NANCY GRACE
Nancy Grace for July 26, 2005, CNNHN
Aired July 26, 2005 - 20:00:00   ET

MANSUR: Because they were trying to hide their faces at that the hour, because we have to remember that the two Kalpoe brothers and Joran held on to the statement that they dropped Joran off at the beach and then went home. But here we have someone that says categorically that they did not go home, they were in the car with Joran. Joran was sitting in the driver`s seat.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0507/26/ng.01.html


BETH HOLLOWAY

CNN LARRY KING LIVE
Update on Natalee Holloway Investigation
Aired February 23, 2006 - 21:00   ET

BETH HOLLOWAY TWITTY: ... Deepak panicked. He panicked when the gardener gave that testimony. That very afternoon, he called an Aruban girl to help him establish an alibi. She, in turn, panicked. She called FBI. She dialed the 1-877-NATALEE number and told them that she did not want to be involved in this.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0602/23/lkl.01.html


DAVE HOLLOWAY

Hannity & Colmes
August 10, 2005

HOLLOWAY: Seems like every time someone speaks out or comes forward. Just like the gardener, he is supposed to appear in court Thursday then be immediately deported. That is the work of the defense of course. Some witnesses may be scared to come forward for fear of repercussions.

 ::MonkeyHaHa::

Thanks VMS

That photo gallery brings back so many memories.

Janet

what said joran on FOX about Renfro ?

IMO - I would trust an eye witness that has passed multiple polygraphs, including one taken in Miami, over even on word spoken by Joran!!

Not sure that he did, Johan....or did he?

That's the pic. Thanks for posting it.

Mum - Deepak's PVs have always bothered me.  He's tried to explain why he separated from Joran and Satish while inside C&C, and when C&C closes.

For example, he states he took a piss in the C&C bathrooms, then didn't see Joran and Satish, so he went outside to his car. (Do we know exactly who walked with Natalee outside of C&C?) (But he also heard C&C was closing - can you hear that from the back of the building or was he not there?)

In another PV Deepak states before C&C closed he went outside to his car but couldn't get inside because SATISH HAD THE KEYS. So why did Satish have the keys?

If Satish had the keys, why in yet another PV did he state that he sat inside his car w/the door opened listening to music waiting for Satish and Joran to come out? 

My guess is that Deepak disappeared for a bit to do something and then met back up with them later that night, at 2:26-2;34 when Joran gave him a call.

S.Croes said he too was at C&C, had offered MB kids rides back to the H.I., and then he interjected himself as a key witness to the 'beach story' while the other kids were fleeing Aruba. 

At 2:26-2:34 am: Joran calls Deepak from his cell phone (DZNH)  Could Joran have been calling Deepak to make sure everything was lined up - that Natalee was 'ready'?

During the call, Joran talks to Deepak in Papi and Dutch so that Natalee will not understand.  (Didn't he say something like this to Greta the other night?)
 
This part of his phone call gets fuzzy for me --> During the call Joran tells Deepak he is walking home and is in the vicinity of the McDonalds on Palm Beach. Joran is breathing heavily. He says he is walking home barefoot, because he took his shoes off to go in the water with Natalee and could not find them again. He also says he left Natalee "passed out" on the beach (D 6/11, D 6/16)[/i]  The new witness corroborates this story about breathing heavy, walking home barefoot (one shoe missing)...

Then we have where all 3 state that the car was STOPPED:
-- Deepak said they drove around and he STOPPED THE CAR - got out and took a leak...
--Satish says he told his brother to STOP THE CAR so he could toss out his yard cup.
--Joran told Deepak to STOP THE CAR so he could get out with Natalee.
--Deepak/Satish say the fishermen witnesses couldn't have seen them in their car (did they see another car?) because they didnt' get out on the beach - Joran and Natalee did.

Based on these 3 PV statements they stopped the car SOMEWHERE at SOME TIME that night. But who was driving? Who was in the car? What car was it? Was there also a white car/jeep following?

Maybe we can go from the very beginning - (yet again) from being inside C&C, who she left with, all the 'mystery' friends each PV says they spoke with/bought a drink for while inside C&C. Whenever Joran talks on camera more 1/2 truths fall out of his mouth....

 

Beth knows the truth.  In all probability ... after images of Paulus appeared in the media ... the Mountain Brook students confirmed that Paulus was at the black jack table with them on the evening of May 29, 2005.

It should be taken into consideration that Beth Twitty's words in the following interview with Rita were spoken six months prior to the revelation of the casino video recording that appears to show Paulus conversing with Natalee.

Janet

+++++++++++


Katherine (Madison) Whatley
FBI Statement
July 12, 2005

After swimming at the hotel on Sunday, WHATLEY and other classmates, including HOLLOWAY, ate dinner at a restaurant next to the hotel. After dinner they went to the casino at the hotel. A few classmates were gambling at a card table along with an "older man" and YURON VAN DER SLOOT. (Whatley 302)


Beth Twitty
Rita Cosby Live & Direct'
September 19, 2005

HOLLOWAY TWITTY: ... I don‘t think there was ever a question that Joran and Paulus Van Der Sloot had been in that Excelsior Casino, and, particularly, on the night of the 29th where he and his father met Natalee.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9407728/


Jossy Mansur
DANA PRETZER
December 14, 2006

DANA: When you look at this case, a question keeps coming up. I am looking at the picture on my PC. It is the alleged picture of a person in the casino with Natalee that looks a lot like Paul. Has there been any update on this issue?

JOSSY: There have not been any change of opinion. People, including people in the casino say that is Paul.

http://scaredmonkeysradio.com/2006/12/14/the-dana-pretzer-show-december-14th-2006-jossy-mansur/

Some of this article is actually in English!   ::MonkeyWink::

(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b258/texasmom55/11252008BondiaA14-1.jpg)

I know there are a lot of people who are and have been suspicious of Jossy, but I've always had the impression that he was doing the best he could for Natalee at any given time.

Those of you who know Easywriter know that for a long time he and Jossy corresponded regularly as friends. Easy used to forward to me emails that Jossy had sent to him that Jossy didn't want shared with the general public. Jossy was not making public statements, simply talking with someone he considered a friend. There was nothing in the emails I saw that would lead me to believe that Jossy was being anything but honest and a friend to Natalee's family. As always, MOO.

11/26/2008 Awe Mainta Pg 11
www.awemainta.com

(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b258/texasmom55/11262008AweMaintaPg20JVDS1.jpg)

Pap Trans:

in entevista cu foxnews joran owing to declara cu past owing to sell natalee holloway monday night greta van susteren in the canal of television foxnews owing to happen one interview cu joran van der sloot, realiza posiblemente for of asia, caminda cu past owing to declara cu past owing to sell natalee holloway at one man. according joran, past owing to come across one man in casino at feburary cu owing to bise cu the is intersa in one child muher. he will owing to tell joran cu past will dune coin if can bring one child muher pe. among the previous to encuentro y the desaparicion of natalee will have to had several contacto among they two. he not owing to tell joran pakico the had have to of one child muher blond. according joran van der sloot, he is among 30 cu 40 year, is talk dutch, papiamento y english y his name is elgar, but the do not assure cu this is his name berdadero. in the interview joran owing to count ; on the night of desaparicion of holloway. “mi owing to bay cune for core one rato. we owing to bay beach caminda cu we owing to descend for of car y owing to cuminsa kiss another. after he owing to come, past owing to dunami the coin y owing to bay cu natalee in one boat on lama. natalee not taabtin fright, but owing to ask about if dicon my do not bay. the was burachi”. joran is tell cu owing to bay venezuela cu natalee y past owing to achieve one overall of 10 thousand dollar pe. of the plac ey past owing to part 2 thousand among two amigo, deepak y satish kalpoe, cu will owing to yude in this. joran will owing to busca contacto cu foxnews because the wanted let all cos behind y follow cu his life. the is wait for cu they can achieve he cu owing to cumpra natalee y door even natalee self, because according joran, past will can is at life still. for apoya his storia, van der sloot owing to give fox news grabacionnan digital cu the had cu his father, caminda the father is bisasu child cu contrabando of person is one crimen earnest. after of the interview joran owing to go back take contacto cu foxnews for tell cu past owing to lie, cu past owing to inventa all this because the not owing to sell natalee.

11/26/2008 Awe Mainta Pg 20

www.awemainta.com



(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b258/texasmom55/11262008AweMaintaPg11.jpg)

Pap Trans:

joran van der sloot is halusiná again.... deklarando with ela sell holloway for 10.000 dòler come across....buèlta new in affair of disappearance at aruba.....

(pa: godfried adem)
amsterdam/oranjestad/new york- the affair of disappearance do natalee holloway three year ago now here again can find one buèlta new. while om at aruba is tell of not can make still nothing with all the deklarashonnan with owing to being give much of part of joran van der sloot self and others (sigur two witness nobo), joran is sigi briya on plano international and is demostrá with the not have fear of nothing. the form how the is act his self have to till even is being consider as one burla of om at aruba and famianan dje desaparesido hóben lady american. monday evening the was once more in news the trip here in declaration of policy dje presentadó greta van susteren that live much a`na finish at usa and have one declaration of policy investigativo at fox tv. einan during one interview joran owing to divulga something new with till still the not owing to make menshon of dje. esta with the will owing to sell natalee for 10 thousand dollar, probably pe’saki go work as prostituta and bondwoman generative at south amerika. ela count with one fellow at aruba will owing to aserké and owing to pidié for look for one woman blond pe. the will have to owing to take away natalee the night fateful of 30 of half ne beach where others will have to owing to abduct this, poné on one boat and hibé venezuela. the is tell of owing to find one suma of 10 thousand dollar for his intervenshon and ela part two thousand dòler with two another friend of dje with will yudé with the operation here. this is something new of joran already with anteriormente ela tell with natalee owing to die in his arm and with one another friend owing to yud’é (un such dauri) owing to throw the body in sea ganchu. if the ultimo declaration here is bèrdat is stay one question big and extremely kuestionabel because is known with at several okashon joran is despistá everybody with vershonnan extremely inverosimil of thing owing to happen. that owing to resultá so because after dje interview here joran owing to calling fox tv for tell with is lie the is lie one travel more. opservadornan is find with joran not can sigi so if and now have to look for one form for as detené or hink’é in one klinika and einan trato and bring at klaridat pe talk the bèrdat for once and for all. es more, every trip with the leave out with his deklarashonnan skizofreniko the is sigi spite name of aruba with debi ne family van der sloot here owing to come lose much tourist. if was joe of juan bimba and calitu chapé ja finish they will owing to detene and interoge severamente and owing to arrive instant for minister of hustsia rudy croes self go place preshon on om p’esaki make something because so here if not can sigi more with joran. joran van der sloot will is abide assure of one sindroma much dangerous. achievement is want have to know more of thing owing to happen with natalee holloway and have to poné talk. greta van susteren owing to interview joran van der sloot for of tailandia where the live till still. is two week happen with peter r. de vries show how joran wanted owing to sell some girl tailandes with some dutch undercover and wanted owing to demostra with the is meti in the business here. outoridatnan of tailandia owing to stay of investiga the grabashonnan here but still not hear nothing of they. once more ministerio publico owing to let know cu not have nothing new y assure nothing concreto in the relatonan here.

I agree BT and ... so does Natalee Holloway's family.

Janet

A REMINDER

BETH TWITTY
'Rita Cosby Live & Direct'
September 14, 2005

TWITTY: Well, you know, I‘ll be forever grateful for Jossy Mansur, who is there. And he has been so instrumental. And he‘s just a hero to all of us. And, you know, he‘s my only hope on the island. And we‘ll be forever grateful to him.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9354188/


DAVE HOLLOWAY
Dana Pretzer Show
September 8, 2006

HOLLOWAY: Jossy has been very helpful to try to find the truth, the fact he lives in Aruba and publishes a newspaper, they're attacking him because he's looking for-- fighting for-- the truth. That’s what a good journalist does--He's going to go after the people, regardless, and try to find the truth


STEVE HOLLOWAY
Scared Monkey - FP Comments
April 6, 2007
 
Comment #20 ... I think he is a good man looking for the truth. He will not let them push him around. This is his home and is probably sick of the corruption that happens every day on such a large scale on such a small island.

Comment by Steve Holloway | April 6, 2007, 1:02 pm


JUG TWITTY
Scared Monkey - FPComments
December 5, 2006

Comment #6 ... THANK YOU JOSSY I DON’T KNOW HOW YOU DO IT BUT YOU HAVE BEEN THERE FOR US FROM THE BEGENNING AND THE PEOPLE OF ARUBA SHOULD BE PROUD OF YOU.
Comment by JUG TWITTY | December 5, 2006, 10:57 am

The Dana Pretzer Show on Scared Monkeys Radio - Listen LIVE Tonight at 9PM
Eastern - Tonight Dana Devotes An Entire Program To The Natalee Holloway
Investigation

Tonight, Dana discusses the latest Joran Van der Sloot news with his
distinguished guests:

    * Clint Van Zandt, former FBI agent, discusses the recent Joran Van der
Sloot interviews.
    * Art Wood, former secret service agent and private investigator also
discusses the Van der Sloot interviews.
    * Stacy Dittrich, author and police officer discusses Joran's recent
media appearances.
    * Other guests will also be apparing discussing the case.

LISTEN LIVE TONIGHT AT 9PM EASTERN

www.scaredmonkeysradio.com

Joran accepted an advance payment of $1,275 for his services from the Thai girls. Authorities said van der Sloot has not been seen since he was spotted leaving a party Friday night in Bangkok. Lawyer J.P. Plasman said prosecutors could press charges against van der Sloot for accepting the money. http://www.upi.com/Top_News/2008/11/10/Holloway_suspect_taped_with_sex_workers/UPI-52511226358499/

An after thought~ maybe the chip/ recorded tape with Joran and his father was about the Thai incident and then the tape was altered to add "the girl" seeming it was about Natalee.
What is the timeline? Did Greta receive the recorded conversation before the Thai incident? Thanks!
 

 ::MonkeyShocked::

Just in Hart van Nederland: they have compared old material of PvdSloot with this new recording. Their conclusion: FAKE! It’s a totally different accent (for example no so called soft G - very typicly -which is spoken in regions below the Rhine in the NL’s.).

OM on Aruba won’t comment either.

Thanks Klaas!   Great line up!  ::MonkeyDance::

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VAN SUSTEREN: More than three years after Natalee Holloway vanished on the island of Aruba, Joran Van Der Sloot has come forward to tell us that he sold Natalee Holloway for a bag full of cash to a mystery man on the beach. Then he contacted me to say it was all a lie.

John Q. Kelly, the lawyer for Natalee's parents, joins us live. John, just in talking to Jim Hammer, just as an aside, it occurred to me that assuming this conversation with his father was legitimate -- and we heard what John -- what Jim said about it -- this occurred in January of '08 that they're talking about trafficking. We did our interview about six months later in June, and he's talking about human trafficking. So there's a sense that that somehow -- you know, at least it's not a new story in June, if it's a lie.

Anyway, what's your thought on all this?

 ::MonkeyWink::

Oops...Should have highlighted June...Still asking for the dates that the DeVries show covered...

Anyone?  TIA

I agree...Jossy has been a good friend, imo.

I agree this Trafficking young girls is a horrible senario for Aruba,as well i believe everyone involved believe's she's not alive!For me.The other angle for Greta,as well as the Monkey's is.The Judicial in Aruba believes,and or knows she's dead.The problem is the last people seen with her are saying "She may be ALIVE".

Check-mate???
1.You keep the investigation alive due to the potential of the victim being alive??
2.Turn over all evidence as to why Aruba judicial believe's she is DEAD??
3.Or.You don't investigate anything at all.Which is probably the route of Aruba..

(http://cdn-img1.imagechef.com/w/081126/samp79416199ccc4fb53.jpg)

It was fun watching Greta's sparring match with Joe T.   He really came unglued.   ::MonkeyHaHa::

I posted at Court Tv for quite sometime tamikosmom.Depending when you were on you'd definitley know who i was.Think about the one guy who was battling all those Joran supporters.Maybe it'll ring a bell maybe not...LOL

Paul is from brabant  ::MonkeyHaHa::

And if they don't think she is???What are you doing to find her??

Check-mate???Or more mud in the face,as well as a decrease in tourism.Why go to a cesspool??????????

I certainly agree that a rift of sorts between the Sloots and TPTB in Aruba could result in some movement at last on the part of the OM and/or judiciary that is unfavorable to the Sloots.  Paulus has already been warned and given a public admonishment.

However, be that as it may, I think the BIG NEWS in all this latest stunt is Joran setting up his father for exposure certainly to highly questionable behavior at best.

And more so if the tape is fake.  That would mean Joran is actually setting Paulus up.

Now THAT could really result in information coming forward that has not in the past.  Joran vs Paulus in seeing who can implicate the other the most in Natalee's disappearance.

I for one have always thought the day would come when Joran would turn on Paulus for the bad advice Paulus gave Joran in encouraging him to lie.  There must have really been something in it for Paulus to have encouraged Joran to do that. 

Is Joran now punishing Paulus for not sending money or is it payback time for Dad?  Either way, wouldn't want to be Paulus right now. 

JMO

Oh, and the downside of all this is that there were absolutely NO laws against corruption at the time all this went down in Aruba.  They did attend a conference along with emerging African nations on setting up some of those but don't know if they ever got around to it.  Keep in mind that they are running years behind in enacting actual laws since declaring themselves autonomous.  Isn't that convenient!

We all know Casino's and how many cameras they have.If that isn't Paulus sittin there they would have turned those tapes over long ago.Cameras everywhere!!

Check-mate  again.If this is old news to Mos about Trafficking and he doesn't care that she may be alive,although i don't believe she is,WOWWWWW...Keep puttin your head in the sand!!

Who thinks that Joran is trying to blackmail Paulus? TIA

Me.

Han Mos just announced that all of the recent publicity to this case is starting to stress him out. Furthermore, he went on to say that he needs to take an extra week vacation. He will also be closing the case soon. He said everybody is lying too much and it is making him sick to his stomach.

 ::MonkeyLaugh:: ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyNoNo:: ::MonkeyConfused::

(http://cdn-img1.imagechef.com/w/081126/samp3d2610ceb3f12e83.jpg)

Yeah, he is sick already, in the HEAD!  ::MonkeyHaHa::

Exactly!   ::MonkeyCool::

I think that Joran and his team have a kind of strategy.

LOL...I know you didn't mean to yell at me...I am not surprised you think that though.

Joe T has been reduced to describing his clients Joran a "sociopath" and Paulus as a "simpleton." ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyHaHa::

I`d never yell at you  ::MonkeyHaHa::  neverrr!

I always wondered if Glenda the Witch had a little business on the side that paid better than rags and ink.  The liar that she is would make a good marketing manager for a trafficking or prostitution business, anything related to meat and of ill repute.

SIMPLETON ::MonkeyHaHa::


(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub5/pvdszipper.gif)

I am sure that will go over well at their get together, don't you? LOL  Taco was beside himself last night and Greta only added fuel to the fire.  She took him on head on and he lost. I loved it!

Even in the tapes with Patrick, Joran was always so careful to insist Paulus was totally not involved.

Now suddenly he produces not one but three tapes allegedly showing that Paulus knew about human trafficking?  Gave chip to Greta, even?

At the least, this is the royal shakedown. 

Paulus is getting on with his life while Joran is exiled to Thailand which is in the throes of near civil war at the moment.  Can't return to NL and not welcome in Aruba.  When Paulus said no body, no case, he didn't tell Joran about this part and I think Joran resents that tremendously.

Joran could have taken Uncle Jan's offer of a couple of years in mental facility then become "cured" and released and this would all be behind him.  Instead he listened to Paulus and denied all.  Look where that got him.  Paulus should pay in Joran's mind.

Otherwise, why the sudden shift on the fact that Paulus knew more than he told the authorities?

Well, Johan and i figured out she was running an escort service ::MonkeyHaHa::

My one point of interest in Joran's human traficking scenario is this....

Who was Joran's contact in the Netherlands should he have managed to procure those women in Thailand?  He could not have been sending them there with no one on the other end of the deal.

IMO the tape does not sound like either Joran or Paulus. We have heard their voices plenty... I do not know who these people are, but they are not Joran and Paulus.

AND. . . .

If the tapes are fake and it is not really Paulus, so much more is Joran trying to frame Paulus for being in on the trafficking scam.

Remember there is already some vague connection to Paulus and the Rudy Croes one of have two women Croes was holding against their will.  Whatever happened to charges on that one?

I guess Aruba hasn't gotten around to passing any laws against human trafficking, either.  To go with not passing any against official corruption. Last I read, they were some three years behind in getting around to actually officially making lots of things illegal.  I think by design.

I am wondering about the cops in on the take...how long until they begin to worry that Greta will let the cat out of the bag.  She has nothing to lose by telling the names that Joran gave her...Joran does.

Tylergal,

Most of her publications were more or less just a string of ads for escort services, both male and female, and massage parlor type things.  Couple of flimsy articles thrown in to make it look good.  So bad most would not even want their children to see these publications so one would have to think she certainly knew the "right" people for this sort of activity.

Also we had the allegation that even Joran was active participant in such activity.  Now she come out so strangely defensive of him and the PIMPs in general.  What else can one think?

There were none Lala`s.
Joran thought Arjan was the pimp, who was undercover for Peter de Vries.

There has always been too much money in that Sloot family being spent on travel to here, there and everywhere, nice enough home, nice enough clothing, and expensive nights out with the movers and shakers of Aruba as well as the trips back and forth to the NL for a simpleton judge who makes no money and whose wife teaches at an American school, who had three children in private school.  That is far more outgo than the income that I am able to see. 

I always wondered if perhaps the friend who worked for the HI casino and Joran were "models" (to put it nicely) for some kind of sleazy business.  They spent way too much money for a judge in training family with three children in private school who made frequent and regular trips to the USA and Europe.

ewwwwwww, that's just GROSS! 

And as the "Simpleton", probably doesn't even wear any underwear!   ::MonkeyRoll::

 ::MonkeyTongue:: ::MonkeyTongue:: ::MonkeyTongue:: ::MonkeyTongue:: ::MonkeyTongue:: ::MonkeyTongue:: ::MonkeyTongue::


   ::MonkeyWink:: ::MonkeyHaHa::

Follow the money.That's why Greta wants bank records supeonad.It won't happen though...

I too often refer to Paulus as a Chess Player.. ::MonkeyEek:: He is Good Too.

Interpol is already involved with the investigation on an international level and Luis Mansur brought them in.. This may allow Interpol to look at Joran and his possible involvement with L.M. on the night in question.. They also have the right to look at Joran for Human trafficking.

The trolls at RU.. LOL ...Hell am I a Troll ?  ::MonkeyDance::
There are many good people and Beth supporters there also..
and Robin wrapped Trolls around her on her new site BNH, where she told ME she felt more comfortable..  ::MonkeyConfused:: That has always lead me to believe that some sort of law enforcement started up that particular site "Interpol or F.B.I." To keep a close eye on some of these supposed Troll posters.. Everyone always wondered WHO Reality really is..  ::MonkeyCool:: Mr. EyeSpy him/her/self.

Finally.. I had one of the people there at RU. who is from Aruba, I have talked with this person since day 5, when we met at VisitAruba.com  This person knows each and every person mentioned in this story and has proven that to me over time with correct info prior to news reports.  This person told me his/her sister works in that particular casino and she talked with this fellow who was chatting with Natalee at the table.. She said he was NOT Paulus.. and that Posner has to respect the privacy of Players and that All casinos do this.. Privacy of player.
I never did believe that. But who knows..
 This person has always brought forward correct info.

Then there is the question as to WHY all this happened ? WHY NOW. ?

My opinion is We are being played. They are just using Greta.
WHY ? This was almost over for Joran.. ?
He plays Greta months prior to Devries supposedly catching him.. ?
 Which is probably just another Play on the part of Paulus.
All of it is just propaganda designed to confuse and therefore obscure the truth..

I also have Early info that suggests that a girl was requested..In Venezuela, I even warned the US Emabassy about that in Caracas... My computer was also attacked 2 weeks later..
To read that today eats at me now.. 3.5 yaears later
 But I still have to assume that Joran or Another hidden Male Murdered Natalee on the night in question.. I still believe the person is L.M.



Wednesday, July 27, 2005
Luis M. Mansur
Oranjestad, ARUBA
Description: Living in Aruba. Maried for 14 years. 4 kids, oldest is a boy 12 and triplets 3years old, one boy two girls. I am currently working as the astnt. director at the islands largest newspaper (DIARIO),also own a construction company.

http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2005/07/just_some_case_.html

Royal Cabana Casino shut its doors Monday [March 5] 12 noon when operator Nathan Katz, Managing Director, Aruba Leisure & Gaming, handed the keys over to owner/landlord Luis Mansur.
According to Nathan Katz, in 1999, the Royal Cabana Casino had asked to renegotiate its lease agreement with the owner/landlord. The negotiations later proceeded with the timeshare owners association, La Cabana All Suite Beach Resort Coop, yet while the process looked successful for a while, Katz reports that at the end Aruba Leisure & Gaming felt that the agreement reached was too severe and too detrimental to the viable operations of the casino.
 I had no choice but hand over the keys..
My home is here, Katz reiterated, my kids love it here, and I am staying to take care of my obligations to the best of my ability.
Observers report that meanwhile Luis Mansur and a team made up of former employees and newly recruited casino executives has taken over the casino
 http://www.visitaruba.com/facts/newsdesk/backissues/newsletter46.html
 
We have a name for that in the United States..  ::MonkeyCool::

May 26, 2006
Five members of the Mansur family, who have Dutch citizenship and business interests in Aruba, filed suit in Miami-Dade Circuit Court in March alleging that Podhurst partner Katherine Ezell mishandled their lawsuit against two family members entrusted with managing Terminal Island in Miami Beach.
This allowed the investment managers of the property, brothers Luis and Elias Mansur, to abscond with the profits from the island's $15 million sale in May 2004.
http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1148547934537
 
Luis got clean away with it..What A CON MAN  ::MonkeyEek:: Where is the money ??  ::MonkeyDance::



September 24, 2007

Today in Aruba, some 120 police officers from ALE, KLPD, Antillean Arrest Team and Dutch investigators arrested Luis Mansur, brother of Jossy Mansur and 8 other persons in connection with money laundering, drug trafficking, bribery and other charges.
 
The special squad was called in to assist in the arrest of some dangerous armed suspects.  Because the operation was so big, also the special squad from Curacao was called in to help their colleagues in Aruba.  Also special sniffer dogs of the Corps National Police Service (KLPD) from the Netherlands were put in to search for hidden drugs and money.  One of the suspects is the well-known businessman Luis Mansur (63), who fired his gun when the police entered his home.

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2007/10/25/more-arrests-in-aruba-in-criminal-drug-gangs-good-police-work-in-aruba-so-what-happened-in-the-natalee-holloway-case/

(http://www.24ora.com/mambots/content/multithumb/images/1..stories.news.2007.september.sep24.nune.nune7.jpg)

A nice home on the Golf course looking at the lighthouse ..

http://www.refugeesunleashed.net/about11297-0-asc-0.html


A snip from a early prediction.. Reading  6/04/05


They drove left after
exiting the bar through the town and
began the ascent on a hilly, curving
street.  They arrived at a nice house that
overlooks the town to a certain degree
(not too high). It is owned by a white
male, possibly American or European.
They tried to regain her trust and put on
an atmosphere of innocent fun and a
party.  She was drugged with a local
ecstasy substitute.  The other men left
and she hardly noticed. 

The white male repeated raped her.  "A Small part left out.." ::MonkeyEek::
She was innocent to
some of this and became hysterical. 
She was so out of control that he
strangled her with his bare hands.  He
called an employee at about 3:30AM.

The young, short male (a local) in a red
tee shirt and tan shorts arrived at 4:
20AM to get rid of the body.  Her naked
body was wrapped in a blanket and put
in his car. The white male was so
confident he would not be caught; her
clothes were put in the local trash bin for
pick up. 

So Natalee was taken on the fishing
boat out to sea.  The young male
navigated the marina and then drove at
about 35 mph for 32 minutes straight
out to sea from the marina.  He
weighted the body with techniques
known by fisherman (sewing through
the bone above the wrist??) and pushed
it overboard. 

Her body floats in the water not so deep
that it is dark but more of a mid to light
place.

http://www.mythforlife.com/qtr_2nd_05.html

Did you even realize how involved Luis really is in Casinos and Dario.

 

Maybe one was Arjan (sp)?

Greta said she would present more NEXT Monday night.

I wonder why the delay.  Guess she plans to spend Thanksgiving with her family etc. but wish she would just present everything she has before doing so.

you forget his " Heineken hummock " Klaas  ::MonkeyHaHa::

Thanks.  I was having trouble with that part.  Could not figure out who it was that Joran was making contact with in the Netherlands.

We shouldn't be surprised Taco referred to Paulus as a simpleton...after all Joran describes him the same way in one of his PVs.  Just goes to show you don't have to be smart to be a judge in Aruba...no wonder things are as they are.  The criminals are more intelligent than the law. LMAO!!

I`m (almost) certain they were both Joran`s voice.  I would die to make it Paulas but unfortunately . .  ::MonkeyNoNo::

A not-very-memorable little package, perhaps the reason.

So were the Thai girls Joran was caught on tape with his very first effort in this regard?  That doesn't seem likely to me since he had business cards already printed and the routine established.

He would have to have someone on the other end of the deal to receive the girls, etc.

If it was his first effort, how would DeVries have even known to try to record Joran doing this?

Doesn't make sense this was his only effort at this.

Has anyone seen Freddy lately?  Maybe he would talk for money too.

Is he taking another fall on behalf of Paulus.  Shrugging shoulders here.

Caps thought he was…Darn always a step ahead of me...LOL

Re: Natalee Case Discussion #774 11/14/08 thru
« Reply #19 on: November 15, 2008, 03:05:14 AM » Caps
 
 
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4101.0
 
Hi to all Monkey Friends,

I am not MIA but in a Mission, a Lot of loose ends has been tied now and ends that were false has been cleared,

1. Cover for Daddy. He is now blackmailing Daddy for Money. Daddy is in a locked checkmate.

On the Night in Question, after all was over,

2. Their decision after no solution was found on how to get rid of the body, Joran begin to cut it in peaces,

part of the body was trown near the shark area.

3. The rest was burried in several location.

4. the pond is also a burial place and the part of the body is in the pond with the sneaker......


on the Gielen movie, it is being reviewed by people that where there on the day of her Arrival.. This is to compare timeline...There is a key person that can veryfied the timeline.....he was there on site...from the getgo.


Almost done with the puzzel...


remember, keep up the research work and never give up.


CAPS
 

Arjan and Joran were long time on-line pokerfriends. At one point Joran started talking about the woman trafficking.
That`s when Arjan contacted Peter de Vries and they set up a sting to get Jorans plans on tape.

Mum
That is a good catch.  Wonder how he knew that? 

How much does Peter pay these people to set up Joran?  With the way Joran can't keep his mouth shut it could become a lucrative business.

Edward:

I've read so many of your posts here about L.M. and because I don't think you read on the Codetalker thread I'm posting this here (ok, nobody hit me!)

A friend of mine who lurks here sent me this EVP info taken from the coffeepotghost.com. Just thought I'd share w/ya (the last one is interesting - check the dates!) Apparently 'the party_woman' was in response to the EVP 'who is Sandrak'.

10APRIL2007_itc_rev_10_LOUIES_THE_ONE_THATS_HIDDEN.wav
12MAR2007_itc_rev17_WELL_CALL_OUT_LOUIE_AND_THE_PARTY_WOMAN.wav
12MAR2007_itc_rev16_ITS_LOUIE,  _EDWARD.wav

Ok - carry on!

Don't you love it!!  and we have known it all along!

Maybe this is his new plan...

Thank You..   ::MonkeyCool::


SandraK is probably Sarah M.  .. Who really knows.. lol

  ::MonkeyDance::

I just want people to stay awake and alert ..The world needs more lerts.. ::MonkeyRoll::

Continue on..

You mean I missed a sparring match between Greta and Joe T  ::MonkeyEek::

I'm working too much, I guess all I can hope for is a replay on Youtube?

Thank you, Bastibro.

So Arjan and Peter would really have no way of knowing if this was Joran's first venture in this regard.  Seems they may think so? 

But I have to wonder since he has been using the term "loverboy" etc. and other pimp references since he began expressing these aspirations before we encountered him at the ripe old age of 17.

If his latest endeavor was in fact thwarted, I suppose also he has no choice but to demand more money from Paulus.

And the word out of Bangkok today is not good at all with regard to the protesters and civil unrest.  I think the airport is still closed down and they control it.  Maybe many flights to foreign countries have to go through Bangkok the way they do Atlanta here?  Don't know the condition of the rest of the country but he may be under curfew which would definitely be a bummer for him.

Does anyone know how Tim Miller and Louis Schaefer came to work together on the ocean search?  I'm interested in who contacted who.  TIA

Hi None, 

Yes you did and it was more than we could ever have hoped for in a sparring match!

I hope you are well.

Later more about that ! ::MonkeyWink::

I don't believe that he is trying to blackmail Paulus.

Edward,

Your wrote:

Finally.. I had one of the people there at RU. who is from Aruba, I have talked with this person since day 5, when we met at VisitAruba.com  This person knows each and every person mentioned in this story and has proven that to me over time with correct info prior to news reports.  This person told me his/her sister works in that particular casino and she talked with this fellow who was chatting with Natalee at the table.. She said he was NOT Paulus.. and that Posner has to respect the privacy of Players and that All casinos do this.. Privacy of player.
I never did believe that. But who knows..
 This person has always brought forward correct info.

So you're saying that a person you know has a sister who knows someone? Is that 3rd or 4th hand information? And defending Mr. Posner's etiquette?

We can see the picture for ourselves. It's Paulus. I mean really have we lost all sense of logic? It is not a coincidence, Natalee was pointing to Joran.

I'll take my eyes over 4th hand information from a Posner employee. Although I believe Jossy has actually done some investigative work and said it was Paulus.

awwwww come on Johan!!!!!  Tell us!!!!!  You know that nothing will shock us when it comes to her!   ::MonkeyWink:: ::MonkeyHaHa::

Law of Karma: all deeds that one is responsible for... Joran do you want to remove the bad Karma from your life? Call 1-800-HELP-Aruba or just tell the truth. 

She is the Aruban Xaviera Hollander ::MonkeyHaHa::

I stubbled on the site just by accident about a week following Natalee Holloway's disappearance.  I had recently taken an early retirement and ... was experimenting with the internet.  The day of discovery was the beginning of what is now a 3 1/2 year addition.

 ::MonkeyNoNo::

Anyways ... what was you nic Keepthefaith.

It is a shame that somehow the mod "accidently" clicked a wrong key and ... ALL THE NATALEE HOLLOWAY POSTS WENT "POOF".  ALL MY RESEARCH WENT "POOF".

 ::MonkeyWaa::

That was the day I joined BFN and ... that is day I began to save all my research in my document files prior to sharing.  My association with BFN ... that is another story ... good and bad.

Anyways ... what was you nic Keepthefaith.

Janet

Actually used my real name..Think i was the only one.Named after a Saint..LOL.Very bizarre.Went back there a day or ago and my post count was down from around 1200 posts to about 420???Who really is in charge of that forum.The Trolls i believe.Seemed as if the Mods were from Aruba.LOL

Yep, as they say "One happy Hooker" ::MonkeyHaHa::

I will do a better look after I cook but here is what I just found.

Natalee’s father – encouraged by Hodges’ detailed profile – plans to search those waters for his daughter’s body with the help of Tim Miller’s Texas EquuSearch and Louis Schaefer with Underwater Expedition.


http://74.125.45.132/search?q=cache:D6-DyapU-CoJ:homelandsecurityleader.com/homeland-security/-2-2-2/dave-holloway-says-dr-hodges-work-key-to-finding-natalee/+Tim+Miller+and+Louis+Schaefer&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=6&gl=us

The moral in the fable "cry wolf" ~ Even when liars tell the truth, they are never believed. The liar will lie once, twice, and then perish when he tells the truth.  ::MonkeyTongue::

Be right back Johan and Bastibro, I think I need google assistance!   ::MonkeyHaHa::

Yes, you guys are probably right.   ::MonkeyWink::

Wonder if Aruba's version will follow the same path as this one did around 1997?  ::MonkeyWink::

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xaviera_Hollander

Thanks Blonde!  ::MonkeyCool::

Hi Nones

.......it begins at approx. 2:43.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9s8LDB4JT0

"I never did believe that. But who knows.."

3rd hand and maybe 4th hand ..
Sorry Frank..
Wish it could have been first hand info.
I think all of us are dependant on info from what ever source we could get it at the time..
I was working for and hoping for the truth.. I found it hard to find..

I never did believe that person Frank.. Even though all other info was correct.
I can only go by what I see and the fact that Posner nor ALE nor the prosecutors office will identify him one way or the other ..
As always I am highly suspicious of EVERYBODY dammit..  ::MonkeyEek::
Is there anybody we can trust on the Rock called Aruba ?
Do I think it is Paulus??
I do.. Am I positive.. No.

Blonde,  didn't OE describe how that happen in the post your brought over this week from BFN? 

Thanks AzSunny, I'll go read that again.   ::MonkeyCool::

Anybody who works in Posners casino is going to support him..

It is hard to trust any info coming out of Aruba.

Why were there no interviews with employees of the casiono or the bartenders..

They all lie. !!

 :gaah:

Not very specific IMO, just "Tim got together with Louis"...

[/b]

and...the "trafficking" recommendations were in Parliament...NO trafficking violation in Aruban "law".....This would have to be interpol..etc...to get action...

Edward,

I know what you're saying. I know it's him. Don't you think given the circumstances, it would be enough to arrest him from what we know?

But they did arrest him, for premeditated murder. Now considering Janssen was his friend, she must have had plenty of information to go on. This had to be a major consideration, because it is him.

And why did the Dutch investigators dig up the VDS property? Given what we know about Paulus this isn't even a stretch. He's not protecting his son, he's protecting his alibi and himself.

Oh sorry,  I thought I remembered it more detailed than that.  I must have been reading in my sleep again.

Maybe go through Kermit's posts.Maybe somethin is in there??Just a though..

her new book  ::MonkeyHaHa::

                      (http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh25/johan555/Happy-22.jpg)

LOLOL The happy Hooker ended up happy after all, so the ends are very very different  ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyWink::

Until Louis Schaefer entered the picture. Schaefer is a self-made multimillionaire who made hisfortune in the underwater exploration business. Schaefer was one of the few people in the world with the expertise to help find Natalee's body if Tim Miller's theory was correct. And he was offering his services free of charge.


The plan was to use high-tech equipment to map the ocean floor off Aruba, and then, step-by-step, use state of the art equipment to scan the bottom for anything that looked like it could contain Natalee's remains. Just before Thanksgiving, 2007, Dave Holloway came to see the Persistence -- the vessel that he hoped would bring Natalee home. "There's been times, I'll be honest with you, you look up at the sky at night, or get up and you can't sleep. Look up at the stars. Think, God help us. Answer some prayers for us," stated Holloway.


In November 2007, Tim Miller and Dave Holloway went to New Iberia, La., to see off the research vessel named Persistence. Dave Holloway said, "Your boat says it all -- persistence. I've been persistent, and Tim's been persistent and everybody else is going to be persistent."

http://74.125.45.132/search?q=cache:JbBR31aqg3kJ:arubanboycott.blogspot.com/2008/02/paradise-lost-aruba-never-to-be-same.html+Tim+Miller+and+Louis+Schaefer&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=10&gl=us

thanks Blonde
How often was Hans Mos there and why ?

Same for pornography which is why it is so difficult to arrest someone like Freddie for creating it.  Prostitution legal and chollar houses for the drug addicts.  I also believe it is not illegal to grow pot only to sell it similar to Netherlands on that.

So not many things are actually illegal under Aruban law and their new state of autonomy.  You may recall the outrage of a school teacher when nude photos of her were posted on the internet but I don't think any actual laws were violated to just too bad. 

So if officials can legally take a bribe, there are not any laws in place to stop them.  Guess it is just another thing that they can grumble about but not actually do anything.

I do think these laws have been neglected by design so that those in power can pretty well do as they please with very little in place legally to stop them.

JMO

Joran's father denies knowledge of 'human trafficking' RNW News

26-11-2008
Paulus van der Sloot, father of the Holloway case suspect Joran, is refusing to respond to allegations that his son told him about what happened to the missing American teenager. In an interview aired in the US on Tuesday, Joran told Fox News TV how he had sold Natalee Holloway to a Venezuelan man on the beach in Aruba for 10,000 dollars.


Paulus van der Sloot talking to Fox News TV, Nov 2008
(Fox News screenshot)
A Fox News reporter managed to show Mr Van der Sloot's father some transcripts of tape recordings of him talking to his son about the Natalee Holloway case. At one point, the transcript shows how his father says to Joran,

"But what you've done is pretty bad. Human trafficking is a serious crime."
Fox News TV also aired the audio recording of the telephone conversation between Joran and his father. They spoke in clearly understandable Dutch; the audio was subtitled in English on screen.

Confronted with the possibility that Natalee might still be alive, Paulus van der Sloot went into his office and broke off the outdoor interview.
The reporter says that Mr van der Sloot did not deny that the transcribed conversations actually took place.

Lawyer disagrees
Joe Tacopina, who was Joran van der Sloot's lawyer in the Aruba investigation, says he also spoke to Paulus van der Sloot. To Tacopina, Paulus said he had never had such a conversation with his son, suggesting that the audio recording had been doctored.

Mr Tacopina was accusing Fox News of paying Joran for the recordings and his interview simply to make great tv and increase ratings. The lawyer also said Joran is "despicable" and "on the verge of [being a] sociopath".
http://www.radionetherlands.nl/currentaffairs/region/netherlands/081126-holloway-father



Left out the part about Simpleton.

(http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh25/johan555/krant-kooi.jpg)

I agree.

Thanks Johan.

This part caught my eye too..."The search that could be initiated by Miller, Whitaker, and a team of volunteers in as soon as ten days, does not have the police's cooperation that the other attempts to find the Alabama teen had."

When did the police ever really cooperate?  Did I miss it?

Is Dana on now?  What do I click on the get the show on the scaredmonkeysradio page?

 ::MonkeyConfused::  Thanks, anyone who can help!

should have said "to get the show"  sorry!

Dana's on at 9PM ET....just click on Radio on the right top of the page, and it should bring you to it.

Thanks 2NJ.   ::MonkeyCool::

I see the announcement but not the buttons to click on to listen, as yet.  They should be there before he starts. 

Dana will be on in 30 minutes.

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub5/pretzer112608.jpg)

www.scaredmonkeysradio.com

I'll post the direct link to the show when it becomes available

 ::MonkeyCool::

Thailand's army chief calls for prime minister's resignation

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fgw-thailand27-2008nov27,0,6972302.story


But it's not a coup, oh no, heaven forbid, not a coup!  This could get really, really ugly and fast. 

Thailand closes second airport in capital after anti-government protesters storm terminal - 12 minutes ago

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/sns-ap-as-gen-thailand-political-unrest,0,5231843.story

Don't believe anybody is going much of anywhere if in Thailand right now.  No connections, etc.

CLICK HERE:  http://scaredmonkeysradio.com/radio.m3u

Clint Van Zandt said Joran wouldn't know the truth if a freight train hit him.

Dana for Christ's sake, how does Clint or you know Natalee is dead?

We have the last person to be with Natalee saying he sold an American citizen and that should be reason enough for the U.S. to demand action.

Tell us how you know she's dead?

I'm with you, Frank.  How do they know she is dead?

Dana is really down on Greta...

Not word for word but from memory, anyone correct me if there is an error.  TIA

Clint Van Zandt also said that when Beth was on the Dr. Phil show that he talked to her in the green room before the show.  He told her that Dr. Phil was going to promote the theory that Natalee was sold into sexual slavery.  He said that Beth said that she had to have hope, Clint said he told her that this would be false hope.  He said that the FBI and CIA had looked into it and found no evidence that it had happened.

Ugh Dana, while I just listened to you chastise Greta  for a ratings grab, I get to hear commercials on your show.

Can you spell hippocrit?

Art Wood on now.

How does Fox support it's news?  How does Dana & Red support SM?  Think about that, Frank. 

RED will call in at the end of the show and sort of tie in the NH case with the Caylee Anthony case. 

You might be hearing a Red rant at the end of Dana's show.

Trust me ... I am over the flu and will be in rare Red form.   ::MonkeyDance::

Yes, rant for all of us!!!!

Art Wood told Dana that Dave Holloway told Greta that if she could pay Joran thousands of dollars for this interview, that he would come on her show and respond to it; but he wanted her to pay to drain the pond in Aruba.

Art Wood said somebody somewhere is going to get even with Joran.

I agree with Art.  I said it a long time ago that someone is going to kill him.  He will meet the wrong guy.

 ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyDance:: ::cartwheel:: ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyDance::

I wonder if Fox is waiting until Monday for a number of reasons...

Perhaps they are waiting for some action from Aruba?  Maybe giving them an opportunity to do the right thing?  Nothing will save Natalee, but there is an opportunity to prevent this horrible thing happening to someone elses daughter.  Don't go to Aruba.

I have to believe that every time something about Natalee and her disappearance is on the news, it reflects on Aruba and makes it look like an ugly place for tourists.  It screams - don't go to Aruba.

I also think that those names are correct, maybe the money is on target, but the circumstances are a bit different.  Someone took Natalee away on a boat.  Just the motivation is wrong.  Don't go to Aruba.

Aruba has the opportunity to turn this case around.  

just my humble opinions

Great Red!

Publicity is good for Natalee, who cares what others do to make money, anything that keeps this story alive is good.

Jesus Dana, come on, because of Greta this was all over the news. That's good!

Wait until you all hear what Steve Cohen, former spokesperson has to say about the case and Joran and Paulus.

Go Red!   ::MonkeyDance::

BS Dana,

How do they know she is dead. It sure seemed JQK found it reasonable.

How do you know she's dead Dana, why not run with the story as the truth if it puts pressure to get answers.

Joran is not a liar, he's a sociopath, there is no such thing as a lie or the truth.

BB Thank You !!!!!! I'm still working but I took the time to watch that and it did my heart good to see him stuttering and Greta having none of it !!  ::MonkeyHaHa::

Steve Cohen, former spokes person for Aruba is on now with Dana.

http://scaredmonkeysradio.com/radio.m3u

Here is Clint Van Zant's article regarding Dr. Phil's believe that Natalee may have been sold:

From MSN:

Why some say Natalee may still be alive
Former FBI profiler talks about his appearance on Dr. Phil and keeping hope

COMMENTARY
By Clint Van Zandt
MSNBC analyst & former FBI profiler

When nationally known psychologist and talk show host Dr. Phil McGraw (the "Dr. Phil" show) appeared on "The Tonight Show with Jay Leno" on Nov. 2, he made some startling statements that turned more heads than usual. Referring to missing American teen Natalee Holloway, Dr. Phil said, "Without giving up too much information, we believe Natalee Holloway is alive." Dr. Phil then discussed one of the world's dirtiest secrets, the sex slave market that sees as many as 1-to-4 million women and children a year traded, sold, tricked, or kidnapped into physical bondage and sexual slavery. The fact that women are used as international chattel is a fact that cannot be disputed. The idea that Natalee Holloway is among the millions of women caught up in this living nightmare has yet to be proved.

Last week I was a guest on a pre-taped "Dr. Phil" show. The show that aired on Thursday, Nov. 17. Other guests included Natalee's mother, Beth Holloway Twitty, Iva and Ron Bradley, the parents of missing American Amy Bradley, and investigators and witnesses who appear to know something about these missing person cases. Before we went on camera, Beth and I sat together. She was cold and shaking, and she'd obviously lost some weight since I first met her in Aruba this summer. As I put my arm around her I said, "Beth, you know that statistically Natalee is probably dead." (We had discussed this in Aruba.) "I know," she said, "but I can't give up hope." I told her as long as we all remembered Natalee, she'd never be lost.

There's a fine line here - a line between real hope and false hope. The reality is that Natalee may have met her demise at the hands of one or more of the three current principal suspects in her disappearance from Aruba, Joran van der Sloot and the two Kalpoe brothers. I emphasize "may have," because I really don't know. I wasn't there and neither were the many who curtly suggest that Beth should just write her daughter off and move on with her life. "She's (Beth) had too much TV time already," some say, while others, probably parents themselves, say "Please tell Beth we're concerned, tell her we're praying for her."

I have seen many a kidnap victim recovered days, weeks, and even years after most presumed the victim to be dead. Statistics be damned, if Natalee were my daughter I'd pursue any and every investigative avenue possible until I was able to determine her ultimate fate to my own satisfaction, in reality until I personally closed the coffin lid. That's our job as parents, to never give up on our kids, and to keep that emotional porch light burning just in case late one night they come back home.

Dr. Phil does not suggest that he has any real, investigative-type proof that Natalee is alive, but he, like Beth, has not given her up for lost, not yet. During the taping of the show Beth talked about a strange telephone call she recently received, one she thought could have been Natalee trying to call home. Beth has spent years working in the area of speech therapy, listening to others with a keen, trained ear. Were the utterances she heard that night simply a wrong number filtered through the brain of a desperate parent, or the frantic attempt of a missing child to reach her parents? Nobody knows for sure. We do know that the parents of missing Salt Lake City teenager Elizabeth Smart never gave up, never wrote her off as dead. And Elizabeth Smart was eventually found and returned to her family. This is the hoped for conclusion of every parent whose child has been kidnapped. Dr. Phil has sent teams to various international locations in an attempt to verify potential sightings of Natalee Holloway and Amy Bradley. Amy Bradley disappeared off a cruise ship near Curacao, Antilles, in 1998.

Here's the challenge in these situations. No matter what the movies may make you believe, neither the FBI nor the CIA routinely sends teams into foreign countries to rescue missing Americans. The reality is that most such sightings are passed on to the local authorities in the affected country and they in turn are asked to report their findings back to American authorities. Does that leave us to "Dog, the Bounty Hunter" to conduct such investigations, especially if we believe that local authorities may be somewhat reticent to conduct a thorough investigation? Some readers will remember that feisty Texas millionaire Ross Perot had two of his employees taken hostage in Iran in 1979. When the U.S. Government couldn't or wouldn't go after them, Perot mounted a personally financed rescue mission that succeeded in finding and snatching both hostages from under the nose of the Iranians. Should we encourage well-intended and privately financed vigilantism if the government is unable and unwilling to carry on the search? (U.S. Navy SEALs, U.S. Army Delta Force, and other military teams are fully capable of such international missions.) While any bureaucrat can answer this question in a politically correct manner, what if it were your son or daughter, your wife or husband, or the child or your neighbor - who would look for that loved one in the many dark places and back alleys in this world?

In addition to the three or more alleged sightings of Amy Bradley since her disappearance some seven years ago, someone now has come forward with a picture of a woman working in a Caribbean brothel who bears an amazing resemblance to Amy. Amy's parents have looked at the photo, shown on "Dr. Phil," and other photos of this same woman and believe she bears a strong resemblance to Amy. Although posing in a sensual manner, this young woman does not look happy. This fact alone does not make her a victim of kidnapping and forced sex slavery. In fact she may not be Amy, just another woman who has chosen to work in the world's oldest profession, prostitution. But as I said to Dr. Phil, even if the woman in the photograph is not Amy, and even if Natalee may be dead as opposed to chained to a bed in the back room of some dank Caribbean crack house, there are women, girls, and children from around the world that are forced into a living hell, something beyond the imagination-or nightmares-of most Americans. They are someone's daughter or sister or son or friend, and they too need to be rescued. Who's going to find them and bring them home? I told Beth that her life must be something like the 1993 Bill Murray movie Groundhog Day, where Murray's character must live and relive the same day, over and over again. "That's it," Beth told me. "Every day I get up and hope this was all a bad dream, and then it starts all over again."

Did Dr. Phil stretch his information a little far when he suggested Natalee Holloway may still be alive? Possibly so, but if you, like Dr. Phil or me, got the chance to sit and talk to Natalee's mom and dad, or Amy's mother and father, or the parents of dozens of other missing children, you too would see something special. You would see the hope, the small light of hope in their otherwise tired, worn and frightened eyes that someday their child will walk through the kitchen door, and back into their life, safe at last. Who among you can turn out that light and slam the door on their slim grasp on hope? In most cases, that's all they have, hope and a few pictures of their missing child frozen in history at the time he or she disappeared. Their child is trapped in a time warp and the parents can't reach them, touch them, or talk to them. They can't even bury them. As a parent, can it really get much worse than this?

E-mail: CVZ@msnbc.com

For information on home, personal, travel and child security issues, see www.LiveSecure.org.

Clint Van Zandt is an MSNBC analyst. He is the founder and president of Van Zandt Associates Inc. Van Zandt and his associates also developed LiveSecure.org, a Website dedicated "to develop, evaluate, and disseminate information to help prepare and inform individuals concerning personal and family security issues." During his 25-year career in the FBI, Van Zandt was a supervisor in the FBI's internationally renowned Behavioral Science Unit at the FBI Academy in Quantico, Virginia. He was also the FBI's Chief Hostage Negotiator and was the leader of the
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10086587/

STEVE COHEN: 

1.  Always believed that the only person that knew what happened to Natalee was Joran.  That Joran is a sociopath.  That his tale to Greta is almost impossible to check now and because he's a pathological liar you don't know what to believe.

Aruba is hurt by any association at ALL by Joran.  What usually runs course with people like Joran they eventually end up getting caught and put under care or incarcerated.

Steve (Christof) Cohen,

"Always believed the only person who knew what happened to Natalee was Joran, he's a sociopath, he can't separate truth from fiction, his latest story is a tale that could have been plausible in 2005."

Interview was a bargain that was struck. Has friends who are close to the case, centered with MOS, he's been diligent, but like Janssen there is not a robust committment, he did not see any evidence of corruption, but only confusion.

Dana WTF, you don't call him on this!!! BS.

Says Paulus is a simple man, not someone prone to conspiritorial. Probably discussed what happened (ya think?) Ignored the question about Paulus in the casino, no follow up Dana?

He thinks the world of Aruba. Joran has hurt the island. Asks Steve if the U.S. can do something. Steve says there needs to be corroborating evidence. The FBI was involved in the beginning. Remembers hearing discussions about the FBI trying to track Natalee. Thinks the FBI would be interested if there was any corroborating evidence. Blaming Greta for waiting, again, blaming Greta, BS.

Thinks Joran was with her, was harmed and body taken away. He thinks trauma to family is extraordinary (fu Steve) doesn't think this interview helps. Wants prosecutor to take a case to a jude.

Hey Dana, your interview with a guy who managed the welcome home press conference for the van der sloots, where's his credibility?

BS Interview Dana, BS! What a fluff piece Dana.

Red's talking but I can hear Dana typing on his keyboard, LOL

Yes...GREAT SHOW!!!!   ::MonkeyDance::

::MonkeyCool::

 Enjoyed the show Dana   ::MonkeyCool::

Yeah great show Dana,

We learned from Steve Cohen that;

Joran is the only one who knows what happened (no follow up)

Not corruption by officials but "confusion" (no follow up)

Paulus is a simple man (no follow up)

NOT A SINGLE MENTION OF JQK CONSIDERING JORAN'S STORY PLAUSABLE

Yep, great show....nice selection of guests, Dana.


Also, not aligning myself with Steve Cohen   ::MonkeyNoNo:: , but he did mention November sweeps....as others have posted....proceed with caution and let there be some peace for Natalee's family. 

At the end of Dana's show, Red said he personally knew the Croes (phon. Cruz) family on Aruba prior to the Natalee Holloway case (or at least that's how I understood what he was saying).

Which Croes family - there are so many.  ::MonkeyConfused:: Anybody know?

Steve Croes? (as in 'the DJ was the vessel'?) I hope not!

Charles Croes perhaps?  (as in 'far reaching implications post')??

Author: Charles (—.setardsl.aw)Date: 06-02-05 09:01There are issues in this case that can go beyond the obvious in their implications.It will take time for all the information regarding this lovely child to come out. Some of it will be hard to handle and some of it will be expected. With regards to the family of this missing child, my prayers are with you.I was with them on the first night they arrived to ARuba (looking for their daughter) from midnight until 5:30 AM and have kept in touch. In my opinion, this issue has far reaching implications for all those involved.I wish all of us strength

charles

arubafastphones.com.com

Well, I think paying attention to anything Joran has to say should be analyzed to the hilt.  I have no idea if he has told the truth at any time.  But I was trying to look at the things that are in common in all of his interviews to see what sticks.  So...

1. Joran and K2's were definitely with her when leaving CnC's.
2. They always end their part of the story at the Marriott.
3. Twice Joran has Natalee in a boat with someone other then himself or K2's
4. Twice Joran has said that Satish came and picked him up.
5. Everytime he discusses it he states he made phone calls that night.
6. Until now, he has vehemently stated his father knew nothing.


While many believe this last interview he had with Greta is nothing but lies...well, he has been lying since May 31, 2005.  I'm not sure why he would lie about his father and K2's at this point, especially if he believed the K2's were going to give him a million bucks if they win their lawsuit and Joran keeps his mouth shut.  Why would he say those things?  Just for money...when he obviously has a new line of work in Thailand?

Also, when we look at the timing of the interview and the fact that Greta asked him if the phone call with his father was recorded in January wouldn't that fit closely with the fallout of the first DeVries show where Patrick and Joran were still talking to each other?  Is it possible that between those conversations with Patrick Joran was also communicating with his father??  Is it possible that Joran was telling his father about Patrick and that he WAS considering telling the truth to someone?

This is just spitballing, but I still do not totally discount Joran's latest claims...yet.

I'm pretty sure it's the Rudy Croes family Red knew   ::MonkeyWink::

Greta's interview was a journalistic disgrace. I think she talked the network into sending her to Thailand with a crew. Then she had to use the interview to justify the expense. Dead giveaway -- that interview with the teacher, all hyped up, and then she said it probably wasn't that teacher at all.

I think this is not sweeps week at all. I think it is probably a traditionally dead week, with Thanksgiving and travel and all. Greta tried to place this embarrassment in the time slot where it would be least noticed. If I am right, she will replay it on Christmas Eve.

I hate the way she lured Beth to New York and then dropped a bomb on her.

Joe Taco got it right. JQK pandered to Greta.

Greta is usually very good and she has done great work on this case for years. I excuse her for this week's hoopla.I applaud her for going to Thailand and trying.

Steve Cohen postion as media spokesperson for the investigation was to further the coverup that was denying Natalee Holloway justice from the getgo.

Janet

+++++++++

THE STEVE COHEN STORY    


Steve Cohen
ARUBA TRUTH
December 7, 2005

A coalition of groups announced Friday the appointment of Steve Cohen to act as spokesperson to North American media, in regards to the Natalee Holloway disappearance case.

AHATA and the ATA appointed Cohen to deal with all media relations concerning the case which still commands media coverage in the United States. Mr. Cohen has been part of the Strategic Communications Task Force since its creation in June. He has a full knowledge of the case and is an associate of the Strategic Message Design Group that has served in an advisory capacity to both ATA and AHATA.
The goal of this action is to coordinate the responses of the private and public sectors to North American media.


Steve Cohen
CARIBBEAN VOICE
January 28, 2006

Aruba stays afloat through Natalie Holloway's investigation
By Hazel Heyer

"Anything DNA that is identified to be of Natalee's will allow us to bring a strong case forward against the three boys. We are also getting to finally talk to some of the Alabama teens who left on that plane and did not wait around for interrogation," said Cohen.

Aruba believes it is most important to get a hold of her mental state and most importantly, Natalee's physical state at the time of disappearance. "Two of the boys said they had consensual sex with her. Whether consensual or not, depends on her ability to be conscious and make a choice." said Cohen.


Steve Cohen
ARUBA TRUTH
January 29, 2006

There are concerns about the statements regarding the investigations view of whether or not any of the suspects had consensual sex with Natalee Holloway. It was not my intention to suggest that they had admitted any such actions on the official record.


Steve Cohen
'Rita Cosby Live & Direct'
April 4, 2006

COSBY: You know, Steve, have you heard these claims that, in this video—there’s this surveillance video that we saw in the casino that was showed a while back—that Paulus Van Der Sloot may be in the casino actually even talking to Natalee. And what we just heard from John, it doesn’t sound like that was asked of him before, if he actually even engaged in some conversation with her that night.

COHEN: I have to say that, unfortunately, I have not had a chance to view that tape. I’ve been in transit in the last 24 hours. Once I get a look at it, I think I’ll be able to give you a better comment.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12150698/


Steve Cohen
DR. PHIL SHOW
January 29, 2006

"Dr. Phil asks him, “From your opinion, based on what
you know, do you believe that these boys are guilty of wrongdoing here?” Steve says that he does. “Do the prosecutors believe they are guilty of wrongdoing?” Steve says that they do. “Do you believe that [the boys] have available, intimate knowledge of what happened to her that night?” Again, Steve confirms that he does.

Steve explains, “Forensic materials continue to be collected. I think we’ve got our hands on some forensic material now that may actually open up the doors to the final results of this case.”

http://www.drphil.com/slideshows/slideshow/3041/?id=1&slide=6&null=null


Steve Cohen
DR. PHIL SHOW
January 29, 2005

Steve Cohen, special advisor to Aruba, came on the show hoping for a chance to talk to Beth about where the investigation stands today. Dr. Phil turns to Steve. "So, you're a paid consultant?" he asks.

"That's correct," Steve replies.

"And, who pays you?" Dr. Phil probes.

"I'm actually paid by the tourism industry, which is the Aruban Tourism Authority, and also a group called AHACA, which is an association of hotel owners on the island."

http://www.drphil.com/slideshows/slideshow/3041/?id=3041&slide=4&showID=


John Q. Kelly
DR. PHIL
January 29, 2006

We're not going to sit here and say, 'Mr. Cohen's a nice guy. He told us some nice things. Aruba's a nice country.' No! Their daughter's missing. We don't have answers. The answers are down there. They have the resources, they have the men, they have the answers, they've got the suspects, it's all down there for them to solve this, and they're not doing it. We need that done.

http://www.drphil.com/slideshows/slideshow/3041/?id=?id=&slide=8&null=null


Steve Cohen
'Rita Cosby Live & Direct'
December 29, 2005

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEVE COHEN, SPECIAL ADVISER TO ARUBAN GOVERNMENT:  It is expected that he will be re-questioned somewhere in the next 10-day period.  I doubt that they will bring him back for questioning immediately, but it will be in that period.  And also, it is expected the Kalpoes will also be brought in for questioning.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL:  That was last week.  On Saturday, it will be 10 days.  Obviously, they're not going to be able to question all three tomorrow.  So essentially, you broke your promise to us, to the American people.  He wasn't brought in for questioning.

COHEN:  Oh, well—well, Jane, I think you're being overly severe with me and with the Aruban prosecutorial system.  These timelines that you guys continue to create on American cable are hard to...

VELEZ-MITCHELL:  I have to interrupt you.  You created the timeline.  You said on December 21, the day he arrived, he will be interviewed within 10 days, and the Kalpoe brothers will also be brought in.  It's going to be 10 days on Saturday.  They haven't been interrogated.  Joran's now saying they're going to send him some questions to answer, which he will undoubtedly answer with his attorney and with his father, who's a  judge.  I mean, that almost seems like a cruel joke.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10650771/

You may be right about Greta replaying because she's done it before.....sweeps are done in months of the year, though, so the election overflow may have scheduled it for this week, and sadly during another holiday.  I do feel that she brought the case back into the news, but not sure I am ready to applaud....still wonder what else she has for Monday....proceeding with caution.   As for Beth, I cannot fathom how she can withstand all of this.

What are the sweep periods?
Sweeps are designated months during the year when Nielsen Media Research measures all local markets. We survey the majority of our 210 local television markets in November, February, May and July (Local People Meter markets, however, are measured 365 days a year). These months are known as “sweep” months, and the data are used by local stations and cable systems to set local advertising rates and to make program decisions. The term “sweep” originated in the 1950s, when Nielsen Media Research mailed and processed diaries to sample households, starting with the East Coast and “sweeping” across the nation.

http://www.nielsenmedia.com/nc/portal/site/Public/menuitem.55dc65b4a7d5adff3f65936147a062a0/?vgnextoid=34953b318b906010VgnVCM100000880a260aRCRD

Red, glad u are feeling better.

i have gotten so lost in Shango land i am dizzy.
at the moment tho, I guess it makes more sense than Jorans confession and retraction.

Anyone want to play with me over in La La's Land before lights out?
: )

What is LaLa's land?

Assuming Shango/Simian threads

Didnt listen to the show but there will be no peace for the family until they know for sure wht happened to Natalee and hopefully have her brought home.

Thank you. I thought maybe poster LaLa had a thread going.

I can't follow the Shango stuff. I applaud everyone who does.

I follow it closely, but end up with severe brain cramps, lol. Some great thinking, but it's a tough one.

I tried but my brain went kazooey.  ::MonkeyConfused:: It went kazooey a long time ago. Maybe it wasn't Shango at all. Keep up the good work.

yes, bc73 that is what i meant ,Port Valerie .
Just being silly.  those threads are a doozy, and I am amazed at all the great minds working overtime there.


the hour and 20 minute tight timing Beth brought up last night ...is it the 2 40 am call to Deepak, then Paulus saying he picked "them" up at 4am?

I took it as from the time they left C N C'S(1am), according to their texts and such, it wouldnt have left them a helluva lot of time to create the scenario we theorize. How,in 1.5 hours, could you drive to a location(busy area), commit a crime("something bad happened"),and leave zero traces of any sort of crime(which we all know evidence was more than tampered with). The reason is you CAN'T!! At least without a well thought out plan by a really,sweaty,simpletonlike man....

Steve Cohen;

NO questions about the security guards
NO questions about the press release stating Natalee was dead and one of the suspects had confessed
NO questions about the retraction
NO questions about Jan van der straaten threatening Beth
NO questions as why he says Aruba was confused, not corrupt

Dana, and you spent more time criticizing Greta?

I must have been hearing things because I heard what sounded like commercials on the show.

Frank - I think you're being a bit hard on Dana.  Dana isn't a reporter he's a radio commentator.  I feel as though you are blaming the last 3 1/2 years on Dana   ::MonkeyNoNo::

Dana's forte' is letting the interview'ee have their say without interruption. That said, I think I have to agree with Frank --more hard hitting follow-ups would have been desired.

(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b258/texasmom55/CarpePicNatalee1.png)

(http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h294/gummy_2006/newturkey.gif)

Carpe, are you one of the 8 that are reading here this morning???  If you are, Have a Wonderful Thanksgiving!!!!

Thanks Blonde. I've been trying to get to the bottom of that as well, AZSunny. Many different posts -- nothing very specific.

'Interesting' post from our friend Caesu from June 2008.



http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2890.780

Re: Natalee Case Discussion #756 6/5 -
« Reply #793 on: June 08, 2008, 01:27:49 PM » 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote
Gas from Colombia for the production of electricity and water 

ORANJESTAD – As respond on the increasing oil prices and its negative consequences for our island, the government has decided to import gas from Colombia.  The electricity supply can be altered to use natural gas instead of fuel oil for an estimate of 20 millions.  The production of electricity and water becomes 40 percent cheaper because of this, said Premier Nelson Oduber yesterday.  “Besides, it’s going to be cleaner.”

The premier of Aruba made these comments during a press conference yesterday.  He is just back from a working visit in Colombia.  He took part as listener in the General Meeting of the Organization of American States (OAS) in Colombia.  He met with the Colombian president Alvaro Uribe last Sunday discussed among others the energy policy.  Uribe suggested supplying Aruba with natural gas, just like Colombia does with Puerto Rico, Venezuela, and Panama.  They agreed that the ambassador for the Kingdom will start negotiating today with the Colombian minister of Mining and energy.  A delegation of representatives of WEB and Elmar intends to go to Colombia and work out the further details afterwards.  This is an historic moment, said Oduber.

The premier says that altering the WEB to use natural gas instead of fuel oil must be possible in one year.  WEB will take care of the costs, about 20 millions.  The natural gas will have to be transported by ship in the beginning, but the construction of a pipeline must be considered on the medium- and long run.  This pipeline will have to run via Venezuela to our island.  Oduber thinks that this may take about 3 years.  Apart from using the gas for the production of electricity and water, it can also be used for cars and in the houses.  Oduber does not abandon the thoughts of other alternatives like wind- and sun energy, but these can only supply the island with a limited amount of electricity and water.  Other energy sources like pet-coke and pitch are too expensive, says the premier.  Also the deepwater cooling is no option.  “We do not have deepwater here.”

Aqualectra-director Anton Casperson cannot judge the Aruban situation, but he considers 40 percent cheaper production costs for Curacao not reasonable.  “Gas is indeed a serious option for us; especially from environmental considerations in combination with wind.” 

Aqualectra is not in negotiations with the gas suppliers as yet.  “The investments are high, and you must earn these back.”  Aqualectra is in the process of adjusting the long-term plans as committed in the Plan 2020.


http://www.amigoe.com/english

Happy Thanksgiving.

New filings in the Dr. Phil/K2 case:

11/24/2008 Reply/Response (AND OBJECTION TO PLTFS'RESPONSE TO DEFT'S OBJECTION, ETC. )
Filed by Attorney for Defendant/Respondent

11/24/2008 Reply/Response (TO PLTFS' BRIEF RE CAUSE OF ACTION ETC. )
Filed by Attorney for Defendant/Respondent

11/21/2008 Reply/Response (TO PLTF'S MOTIONS TO COMPEL, ETC. )
Filed by Attorney for Defendant/Respondent

http://www.lasuperiorcourt.org/civilCaseSummary/index.asp?CaseType=Civil

Case BC363201

HAPPY THANKSGIVING TO ALL

Have a wonderful day and enjoy the warmth of your family and friends. Pray for those who find this day sad without their loved ones.

Blue Moon of KY

It makes me want to ask Steve why he was so cozy and protective of Joran on the day he was released from KIA and set free to go to the NL to attend his Cecil Rhodes courses

May everyone have a very Happy Thanksgiving ...

Check out the FP for the WKRP Turkey drop and later the SM Turkey greetings ...

(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d118/Sanddrops/happy_thanksgiving_hg_clr.gif)

Happy Thanksgiving to all!

Rob I can't go through Thanksgiving without thinking about your infamous Turkey locked in oven story.  A classic.

I am making my 2nd batch of pumpkin bars this a.m. since I did an equally stupid thing last night with the first batch.  LOL

Again, God bless everyone and hugs from Frijole... still standing with the girl.

(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/Fun%20stuff/MVC-009Sc.jpg)
I took this picture from my TV.
I thought it was from someone's camera that night at C&C but I'm not sure.
I added the words.
Natalee were still looking, We won't stop.
Blonde

Frank you must have selective hearing, and like I have mentioned for years if you dislike the show so much why do you listen?
As far as hearing commercials you only hear PSA's public service announcements.
Red and I pay the costs for each and every show there are no sponsors.
You used to complain everytime I had Jossy on that I didnt yell and scream at him and get him to admit things that he would never say.

Again feel free not to listen if you choose.

Happy Thanksgiving everybody.
I am thankful for you all.


I just saw Kermit in the Macy's parade.

Dnan ... I personally cannot comprehend the benefit of giving Steve Cohen a platform to further the Aruban agenda of protecting Paulus van der Sloot.

However … I agree with Beth Holloway … allowing that platform to Joran van der Sloot is a very good thing. Every time Joran speaks he implicates himself all the more in the event encompassing the morning of May 30, 2005 as well as his father.

I applaud Greta for keeping the Natalee Holloway case from becoming a distance memory.  I applaud Greta for reminding American that a missing 18 year old American was denied justice by a corrupt Aruban investigation who was H--- bent on protecting their own.

Janet
______

Beth Twitty’s response to the Joran/Greta interview (2006) …

On the Record w/ Greta
Transcript: Beth Twitty Responds
Tuesday, March 21, 2006

VAN SUSTEREN: Now, you and I have spent an awful lot of time together, talked together. You know my entire staff. Was it difficult for you that we sat down with him?

TWITTY: Oh, no. No, I mean, I think that any time that we can get Joran speaking, I think that he only incriminates himself every time.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,188645,00.html
.

Beth Twitty’s response to the Primetime interview …

NANCY GRACE
Joran Van Der Sloot Speaks Out
Aired February 23, 2006 - 20:00:00 ET

TWITTY: … I`m just glad that he is coming out and speaking on camera because I heard a clip that you — a sound bite earlier, and he does — when he tells one lie, more evolve And it just is mind-boggling how we are all just witnessing this from Joran.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0602/23/ng.01.html

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub5/turkey_hold_happy_thanksgiving_hg_c.gif)

Im curious do you applaud Greta for paying for a sociopath like Joran to come on her show, lie through his teeth, give false hope in my opinion. Then for her to sit on this so called new evidence and save it for ratings week.
The show wasnt about keeping the story alive, many besides Greta do, its just giving him (Joran) a platform and to pay him.

He used Greta plain and simple.

Yep.

(http://www.guy-sports.com/fun_pictures/christmasturkeyf.jpg)

I do not know where the turkey went but when I find him it is going to be a wonderful Thanksgiving dinner.

Happy Thanksgiving to all of you.

Too funny Beans! Soon as I saw Rob's post I immediately thought of his infamous turkey in the oven story!!!!

Be sure to ask Rob about directions for the oven if and when you find the turkey.

Happy Thanksgiving one and all!

The Betrayal of Natalee

 Dale Netherton
November 27, 2008

The recent interview of Joran Van Der Sloot, that was recanted ,opened the door to the most plausible explanation of what happened on that evening in May in Aruba. That door was introduced far earlier and should have been examined but is only now considered after a known liar tosses out the scenario to a blinder driven press that chose to focus on murder and an unfound body. The press can no longer announce with unfounded conviction that Natalee is dead. The credibility of Joran will not place this explanation of the event on solid ground but the way is now clear to reexamine why this is the most plausible explanation and now needs to be more thoroughly investigated.

I invite the reader to start by looking at my essay, "An Evaded Natalee Holloway Theory" published on March 24, 2006 at http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/7184 . Had this analysis been considered we would be much farther along in the investigation than we are today? It was this willingness to jump to a solution without integrating the known facts that may have cost Natalee her life or at least a greater portion of it. You may ask why would the media be so obtuse to avoid an obvious possibility? They knew that if such a scenario as Joran unfolded did occur they would be left with mud on their face. Evidently they either discounted the possibility as remote enough to ignore or they were so wound up in their preconceived notions that they couldn´t think outside the box.

The issue of Beth Twitty's (Natalee´s Mother) reaction and demeanor has been dealt with and her latest reaction is consistent with that analysis offered at http://www.americanchronicle.com/spool/articles/mine/view/67407 entitled " A Piece of the Puzzle?" The evasion of Joran and his interviews that reveal someone with a threat on his life or his family is consistent. Putting something out to try to exonerate himself and then recanting is not just a simple game but a reaction to a threat about something he may have said that could implicate some major player in this den of iniquity. This leads to the other evasion the media is intent on propagating. The involvement of the Aruba authorities and their role in human trafficking. Joran spilled the beans big time when he mentioned his father buying off some police officers. This statement opens the door to official corruption and you can bet the authorities are not going to implicate themselves. When this dawned on them Joran was undoubtedly contacted and told to deny the truth of the interview. You could believe he simply made up the whole thing so he could deny it just to make himself less credible. Again the issue of motive arises and for Joran there was no bag of money to entice him to give an interview that he would later deny. That kills future interviews.

This stumbling and evading of what should have been a straightforward investigation is the cause of a girl who may be alive living in a hell on earth for years without anyone seriously trying to find her or even considering she might still be alive. Did this enter Joran´s mind? Was his interview an attempt at atonement or merely a way to see if he could put someone on the trail to find Natalee and clear him of any involvement in what might turn out to be a murder? Passing Natalee off to thugs that might cause her demise would make him an accomplice. Especially if he remained silent. That may have been the impetus for his participation in the interview. The interview may have only awakened those who do not want to be investigated. They may have told him as much.

The truth is the pace and the obstacles of this case are being downplayed. Relying on the Aruba authorities is a first class stalemate. When a prosecutor refuses to even look at an interview tape of a confession you have to suspect there must be some reason for it. As before, anything that leads toward the truth and the exposure of the players is thwarted by stalling, erroneous conclusions, false testimony, futile searches and evasion. This pattern can have only one explanation. That explanation is that these people have something to hide. Who will call them out on this? Certainly not the media because they need absolute proof such as a rat within who comes forward. The implication could be editorialized and the pattern reviewed and questioned. Do you see this? No and you probably won´t.

The word needs to be spread to Natalee even if it takes the form of a note in a bottle at sea that there are people who believe she is alive and can be saved. Even a false confession by Joran ( if it was false) can be a jumping off point that leaves the possibility of hope for Natalee. This is the banter that needs to spread now that it has been concretely identified and brought to the center stage of awareness. Speak out in what ever way you can for a girl that was a victim of a crime that can only be solved and justice achieved by the voices that ask that the truth be determined and all those involved named. Natalee is the poster child now of the crusade to address human trafficking. Let´s not disappoint her any further.

http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/82888

the Cage

http://forensicthoughtprints.com

Three small buildings collectively known as Fisherman's Huts sit next to each other on the beach separated by approximately 100 feet. They were built some time in the 1940s. (A fourth hut—the most distant one on the beach going north toward the lighthouse—was destroyed several years ago in a hurricane.) Each small building consists of four individual units very small in size approximately 9 feet by 15 feet. As I approached the first of the three tiny Fisherman's Huts buildings, I soon learned that this was the one in which the 2005 break-in occurred. There a lone fisherman was cleaning out his fishing boat on the beach next to the first of the three Fisherman's Huts. Uncertain as to his sympathies regarding the Holloway case, I engaged him in general conversation. He was pleasant, friendly and unfailingly polite.

Rather quickly it emerged that he was The Fisherman who had discovered the break-in to the units on the morning of May 30, 2005. He related the following story.

He had been at this hut at 6 am that Monday morning May 30, 2005. Before long, he noticed that someone had broken into the first three of the four units in this particular group, from north to south, prying off the padlocks with something like a tire iron or a crowbar. He showed me the still-visible marks of the break-in on each unit. He described in detail the contents of each unit and the nature of the break-in.

Facing the first of the Fisherman's Huts from left to right (north to south): unit 1 contained a valuable stove, cooler and other equipment but nothing went missing; unit 2 had the lock pried off but was seemingly unopened because the door was stuck (and nothing was later reported missing); unit 3 also had its lock pried off with the only missing item being a brand new, large fishing knife (no rope was taken as had originally been reported, he said); finally unit 4 remained untouched. Clearly it seemed the perpetrator(s) had broken into the units in an orderly fashion until they found the specific item they were seeking—the knife. Indeed it struck the fisherman as odd that nothing else of value was taken.

Of the three Fisherman's Hut buildings, only one was accessible to break-in. The units in the closest nearby building were going mostly unused with sand covering the entrance doors up to a couple of feet. The outermost building was seemingly abandoned and virtually in the water.
The Cage

The fisherman also noticed that a large fishing cage stored behind the first of the three Fisherman's Huts at the southern-most corner was missing. The cage had been there approximately a month since about Good Friday, March 25, 2005. The cage belonged to another fisherman who kept his boat next to these four huts. The boat was still there. But the cage was missing.

The fisherman described the cage as made of 3/8-inch iron (such as that used in concrete reinforcing—"rebar") with a frame size approximately 5 ½ feet by 4 feet by 17 inches. He described it as a large fishing cage with its frame wrapped in chicken wire with its familiar hexagonal openings but with an opening in one panel which allowed them to trap fish. He believed that, given its size and weight, it would take two men to manage the cage. Once aboard, it would lay low on the floor of the nearby fishing boat.

The day the cage went missing, the fisherman observed an iron stain in the grass on the south side of the huts. Only sometime the next day, Tuesday, May 31, did the fisherman learn of Natalee's disappearance. Slowly he began to consider possible connections between the case of the missing American girl and the missing knife and cage. His suspicions rose when a rumor made its way around the island that Natalee had been disposed of in a container. (In retrospect, the missing knife could be explained by the suspects' need to cut a larger flap in the cage in order to fit the body into it.)

All the suspects would have needed was a gas tank, the fishermen there had suggested as they discussed the case among themselves. The suspects could easily have "borrowed" one of several fishing boats anchored nearby. (Although I don't believe the suspects used one of these boats.) The fisherman and his friends always left their boats anchored a short distance off shore.
Activity around Fisherman's Huts

The fisherman pointed out the bushes immediately south of the huts. They were often associated with clandestine activity—possibly including illegal aliens, drug dealers and even peeping Toms. He noted how people could enter the beach surreptitiously from the road by using paths running through the bushes. The local beach boys would all be intimately familiar with the area which is also a likely location for furtive drug transactions.

Clearly the bushes next to Fisherman's Huts were the first secluded area on the beach north of the hotels. Because of all this potential activity on the beach and in the bushes, the three boys would have been even more anxious to get rid of the body in the ocean that night. The reported police theory that the boys hid the body by placing it in the bushes for disposal the following night was highly unlikely. Certainly rigor mortis would have set in at 24 hours and they would not have been able to manipulate the body into the cage at that point. And the knife and the fishing cage were stolen on the night of May 29-30, 2005, not on May 31.

At this point I called Tim Miller now at sea on The Persistence to pass along the new information about the cage. He put me on the phone with John Silvetti who was pleased with my findings. From the boat they emailed a new copy of the model cage to the person constructing an actual model of the cage, and picked it up the following morning upon returning to shore. By December 21, the search team had an accurate model cage and was able to drop it into the water and obtain a sonar signature of the cage.

The on-site visit to Aruba had been helpful in clarifying several matters. In his crucial June 4, 2005 email Deepak had repeatedly referenced the "lighthouse" when describing their last night with Natalee. Was he unconsciously pointing to the body being dumped from the boat in that area? The sea waters there coming around the tip of the island were way too rough, however, and it was far more logical that the boys would have gone straight out from Fisherman's Huts in the boat—as the profile had strongly suggested. Now Deepak's emphasis on "lighthouse" took on a new meaning. He was trying to tell us Natalee's body was in a "light house" or a cage which matched his other insistence that she was in a "crack house," that is, a cage—a house with cracks in it.

As the deliberate, time-consuming sonar search progressed, I came home to Alabama but returned to Aruba on December 29 when the ROV team began their work. Throughout this visit I maintained regular telephone contact with Tim Miller on the boat and Dave Holloway back in Mississippi as we monitored the search.

I revisited Fisherman's Huts for further discussion with the local fishermen. I specifically wanted to know how far out into the sea could a speedboat have taken Natalee's body in May 2005, and how deep would the water be there. While the seas were rougher now, the fishermen noted that the waters were often calm and on those occasions a boat could easily go out 10 miles or more. Dave Holloway recalled the ocean being noticeably quiet on his visit to Aruba immediately after Natalee disappeared, and, typically, the sea remains even calmer at night.

One afternoon as I stood at the Fisherman's Huts where the break-in occurred, a family in a small speedboat (approximately 14 feet) launched their craft into the water from right next to the huts. The family of two adults and four children easily made their way into the water, out 100 feet or more where you could see other bathers standing waist-deep in the water. One of the adults on the boat told me he had a larger, 20-foot craft which he often launched there. That simple observation confirmed for me that this key area was easily accessible for boats and the most convenient place to quickly and secretly load a dead girl's body into such a vessel. It seemed to be the first place along this section of the beach (north from the Holiday Inn) suitable for launching watercraft.

Early one morning Tim Miller went with me to Fisherman's Huts to go over the specifics of the break-in and location of the cage. We met with the fishermen there again. Tim agreed with me that these witnesses were very believable and that the three suspects would have disposed of Natalee's body that first night without taking the risk of hiding it nearby.

Later we saw several people windsurfing in the area directly in front of Fisherman's Huts and on down toward the lighthouse. It's likely that Joran himself windsurfed here and would surely have been familiar with this stretch of the beach. Rental shacks for windsurfing and other equipment were located shortly down the beach toward the lighthouse. Just past that, about 200 feet out in the water off Malmok Beach, was the famous Antillla Shipwreck, the remains of a scuttled 400-foot German cargo ship that was anchored off of Aruba during WW2. Many tourists simply walk down to the shipwreck site, as did several kids on the 2005 trip with Natalee.

(http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh25/johan555/FIMAnSHUTSHOTkopie.jpg)

new lock
(http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh25/johan555/Newlock.jpg)

missing knife

(http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh25/johan555/image-130kopie.jpg)

they use this boat for the Cage

(http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh25/johan555/image-015.jpg)

 I completly agree! Thank you Janet

Thanks Bleached for the article.

This is why I think Greta's interview was good.  Aruba doesn't need publicity like this now.  I know a lot disagree with what she did and the timing.  I do not feel the reason was for November sweeps.  There is more to this.  JMO.

Greta has said on occasion that is better to treat people nicely.  Joran went back to Greta because she was nice the first time.  This time Greta had Joran squirming in his seat.  To the point where he got up to leave.  She also had a battle with Joe Tacopina.  She went toe to toe with him and that is the real Greta.  There is a time and place for everything and now is the time.

Steve Cohen was a "paid" participant of the deception that has denied justice to an American citizen and ... has contributed to a 3 1/2 year ongoing nightmare for an American family.

Janet

_______

Ministry of Transportation and Tourism

The Strategic Communications Task Force is a working group established in Aruba to address the issues surrounding the disappearance of Natalee Holloway. The Task Force includes representatives from AHATA (Aruba Hotel and Tourism Association), ATA (Aruba Tourism Authority), business and government leaders ...

What we do

The Strategic Communications Task Force’s goal is to stay abreast of all developments in the Natalee Holloway disappearance, verify if information given is truthful and bring forward the correct facts when necessary. The Task Force also aims to inform the public and media whenever there is information that can be shared and monitor media coverage both locally and internationally in an effort to prevent and minimize any damage to the economic well being of Aruba. The Task Force believes that it is very important to keep the community at large well informed of the latest developments.

http://www.aruba.com/nholloway/taskforce.htm


Steve Cohen
ARUBA TRUTH
December 7, 2005

A coalition of groups announced Friday the appointment of Steve Cohen to act as spokesperson to North American media, in regards to the Natalee Holloway disappearance case.

AHATA and the ATA appointed Cohen to deal with all media relations concerning the case which still commands media coverage in the United States. Mr. Cohen has been part of the Strategic Communications Task Force since its creation in June. He has a full knowledge of the case and is an associate of the Strategic Message Design Group that has served in an advisory capacity to both ATA and AHATA.

The goal of this action is to coordinate the responses of the private and public sectors to North American media.


Steve Cohen
DR. PHIL SHOW
January 29, 2005

Steve Cohen, special advisor to Aruba, came on the show hoping for a chance to talk to Beth about where the investigation stands today. Dr. Phil turns to Steve. "So, you're a paid consultant?" he asks.

"That's correct," Steve replies.

"And, who pays you?" Dr. Phil probes.

"I'm actually paid by the tourism industry, which is the Aruban Tourism Authority, and also a group called AHACA, which is an association of hotel owners on the island."

http://www.drphil.com/slideshows/slideshow/3041/?id=3041&slide=4&showID=

I have a question for everyone.

After seeing the latest interview of Joran and how the Aruban police were paid off to look the other way would send your child to Aruba for vacation.

Key words are human trafficking (kidnapping and selling our kids).

WHETHER TRUE OR NOT THIS WILL CATCH PEOPLES EYE.

Aruba, being what it is, would not put out a request for bids, but would
arrange some sort of covert business with a company that they could
get something from....
The grid search that they did would certainly be helpful in showing
depths and obstructions and the clearest path for such a project.
What kind of business is Silvetti planning to open in Aruba?  If he isn't
planning on opening a business, why has he been showing up there
so frequently?
Klye 's response creates more questions than it answers and seems
to be an effort to confuse. IMO

... and thank you AZSunny.

Janet

To All American Monkeys

HAPPY THANKSGIVING!!!

Janet

______

COUNT YOUR BLESSINGS

Count your blessings, name them one by one,
Count your blessings, see what God hath done!
Count your blessings, name them one by one,
And it will surprise you what the Lord hath done.

I agree Magnolia. 

Thank you BB for that article.  I am glad I am not sitting here as the only one that  has some of these thoughts.  I was sort of feeling like the lone ranger last night. 

HAPPY THANKSGIVING EVERYONE!!!!


(http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d162/Muzzydog/CalendarTgiving-1.jpg)

[

Not that anyone wants to hear what i want to say, but here goes.  IMO I would think you'd have to touch shore in Aruba like say by "Valero" and they didn't get permission to go in that area. No-one ever has gotten that permission granted.. You'd also have to go to Venezuela shore to touch where it would connect there, and they didn't go that far either.  So think about that one.  I don't agree with ALE having all the evidence, however the persistance did tape who and what took all the baggies.  

Hope all my monkey friends are having a wonderful Day of Thanksgiving.

If this was the first thing I had ever heard about the happenings on Aruba I would never step foot on that island.  Especially with my beautiful 24 year old daughter.

No Justice for Natalee

No Tourism for Aruba

No exceptions

I Stand With The Girl

God Bless you all.