Scared Monkeys Discussion Forum

Natalee Holloway => LCD Archive => Topic started by: Nut44x4 on November 26, 2008, 09:25:55 PM



Title: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 - 12/5/08
Post by: Nut44x4 on November 26, 2008, 09:25:55 PM
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/Natalee2.swf



JUSTICE FOR NATALEE


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on December 03, 2008, 10:49:35 AM
 ::MonkeyHaHa::  Big map...Whiskey Girl....thanks.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: MumInOhio on December 03, 2008, 10:51:00 AM
Anna...I didn't take it too seriously...saved it because I have been following Carlos severino Tromp...and I liked the Merian connections...fake diplomas.

added start date for new thread subject.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on December 03, 2008, 10:52:48 AM
Nut, I just saw your post on the last thread.....I called the lock on page 49...so sorry.   ::MonkeyWaa::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781
Post by: MumInOhio on December 03, 2008, 10:57:22 AM
OK...I have work to do...

Hi Caps…I have questions…LOL

Is the gag order still on Poentje and Patrick from the Telearuba show?

Was that because of the pond statement by Patrick?

Was that why the Thursday show was cancelled?

How long was Patrick on Aruba, do you know...Kyle said "WE met with Patrick"...Pretty sure he didn't mean Tim...working on a time-line.

Is Brenda Bouwman from Holiday Inn Fame and Amigoe related to the Martin Bouwman guy who lives with Luis Ramirez?

Next Move?...from your post?

Thanks In Advance as Always…


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781
Post by: WhiskeyGirl on December 03, 2008, 10:59:34 AM
I'll bring this over...

DON'T MISS THURSDAY NIGHTS DANA PRETZER SHOW with GUEST JOE TACOPINA   ::MonkeyShocked:: 



That's interesting. Just my opinion, but if Tacky is willing to speak with Dana, then Tacky ain't happy at the way things are going. Between him calling Joran sociopathic, and Paulus a simpleton, and him doing Dana, I think the glue holding his hair in place is melting. Worry will do that to you.

Something's clicked in his head, IMO.


Maybe that clicking...

I remember reading Joe T. saying something to the effect that he "defends the evidence"...and "There is no evidence."  Maybe Joran is producing more evidence?  Maybe Joran is getting to close to the truth?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: BUCKSHOT on December 03, 2008, 11:05:45 AM
FROM KERMIT (LAST FEW POSTS)

on: December 02, 2008, 11:13:54 PM  
Quote from: wreck on December 02, 2008, 11:13:11 PM
Quote from: Kermit on December 02, 2008, 11:09:00 PM
Quote from: Blue Moon of KY on December 02, 2008, 10:45:05 PM
Quote from: Kermit on December 02, 2008, 10:43:35 PM
Jan. 7th picture Kyle said: "In case it isn't clear.. notice the blue denim-like fabric”


Kermit, did the crew of Persistence NOT retrieve anything from that cage before the aruban divers came in?  If not WHY?


Kyle said: "The Aruban divers were on the police boat, dove from their boat, and returned to their boat."
Kyle said: "They were immediately whisked away by the Aruban police and not seen of again by us on the 7th"

Kyle said: " John stood back and waited and worked with the Aruban Polis"
Kyle said: "John definitely believed the Arubans at their every word"
Kyle said: "John didn't want Tim Miller on board the Persistence because he said Tim wasn't necessary any more and was a liability"
Kyle said: "John told me then he didn't want to hear me ever mention the trap again."

June 10, 2008 = Kyle states: “He's [John Silvetti] seriously making plans to open an Aruba office so he can conduct business easier in S. America and that would allow him to do that."

Wow! Again - did Kyle tell this to you personally??

all part of the investigation.

___________________________________

on: December 02, 2008, 11:12:23 PM  

Kyle said: "Schafer is sue crazy."

APRIL 20, 2007, Superior Offshore and Company insiders sold over 10 million shares of common stock to the public, raising gross proceeds in excess of $152 million

LAWSUIT FILED AGAINST SUPERIOR OFFSHORE INTERNATIONAL – LOUIS E. SCHAEFER.  for violation of the federal securities laws.
The lawsuit states that the Defendants in the case, Louis Schaefer being the CEO of the Offshore company provided false and misleading registration statements where he sold or disposed of millions of shares of the Superior Offshore stock for proceeds of 25.87 million.

Louis Schaefer resigned from the company Nov. 15, 2007
Schaefer sold or otherwise disposed of over 1.725 million shares of his Superior Offshore stock for proceeds of $25.87 million in the.


Case 6:08-cv-00400 Lawsuit: Violation of §11 of the 1933 Act
Against Defendants Superior Offshore, Schaefer, Mermis,
Burks, Koch and the Underwriter Defendants
7,270,930.00
* Sold through Schaefer Holdings LLP.
THE MATERIALLY FALSE AND MISLEADING
REGISTRATION STATEMENTS AND PROSPECTUS
APRIL 24 OF ALL OF THE OFFICERS RESIGNED
APRIL 25 THEY ANNOUNCED FILING A CHAPTER 11 BANKRUPTCY

July 4th weekend Kyle went to John Silvetti's home.
Then Kyle was off to Norway on the Ormage Project.
Then the "Dutch Agent" sent him to Egypt.

If you do some research you find a lot on John Silvetti's businessess and merge with the Dutch

_________________________________________

on: December 02, 2008, 11:02:28 PM  
Quote from: Bladerunner on December 02, 2008, 10:59:45 PM
Quote from: wreck on December 02, 2008, 10:53:03 PM
Quote from: Kermit on December 02, 2008, 10:43:35 PM
Jan. 7th picture Kyle said: "In case it isn't clear.. notice the blue denim-like fabric”

You see -- I thought OE was being forthright and well intentioned during that time (January) -- what happened to him by February???


Greed.


Kyle: “I did not feel the same and we had a major difference in opinion. He [John Silvetti] was the one who never pressed ALE to be completely open with us with the trap evidence. I would have forced them to. However, John was the one paying my invoices so I was forced to sit back and hope for the best.”

THEN

Kyle tried to "strike a deal" with producers.

The opening song for The Apprentice: MONEY, MONEY, MONEY!

____________________________________________________

on: December 02, 2008, 11:00:21 PM  
Quote from: Blue Moon of KY on December 02, 2008, 10:43:31 PM
Quote from: Kermit on December 02, 2008, 10:39:52 PM

Kyle said: " We all know it wasn't a blouse, but I believe they were sent some piece of fabric other than the fabric found inside the trap.”


I am so confused. She was in the ocean, she was in a pond, she was in a cemetery, and now she has been sold into slavery.  How would anyone know what is the truth at this point?




Kyle said: "The blue fabric was found right where the skirt is pictured. If it isn't her, it will forever haunt me as a major cosmic WTF.”


Caps: emailed Dave her body was in the cemetery
        Dave told Caps, we have searched the cemetery
        Caps said she is in MOKO
        Caps said she is in Montajan
        Caps said she is in the cemetery
        Caps said she is cut up and spread around the island


Kyle said: "We're being fed misinformation to keep us searching and out of their way while they cover their asses, destroy evidence, cover their tracks, and keep us out at sea and away from the trap."


Kermit says: "A picture is worth a thousand words!"
 



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: BUCKSHOT on December 03, 2008, 11:07:31 AM
POST (FROM CLW)
« Reply #931 on: Today at 12:19:56 AM »

Kermit: why are you stir the monkey cage by lying....I never siad the Moko nor Montanja but the Monserat pond.

If it was the Moko or the Montanja or the Soledad pond, he would have walk straigth home. and we would have not even know where he was since he would have been home and no one would have seen him.

The cemetary is a plausable senario...but after more research that plousable scenario is still under investigation and to make that plausable, we have the search and all the logisctics to make it happend, but that require a lot of more inividual involved.

on the issue of chop up and spread all over, that part of the result of several research.

here is what has happend.

1. I do my own research with more capable individuals here in aruba that are part of the local daily night scene in Aruba.
2. it was the Maty apartment used that night.
3. some part of desposal was in several location in Aruba. The Pond was where he burried the last part of the body.
4. After all that blood, he washed off in the pond.
5. from there he took the service road running towards McDonnald.
6. was saw by an withness.
7. withness went to OM and give his statement.
8. OM give instruction to clean up the Pond but, the Santarosa group did not clean it up, since the ground was still muddy and it was posponed but then the rain came and is now full to the brim. Got new pictures.
9. the pond is now offlimited by a chain across the drive way entrance.

10. spoke to Selvetty and asked a lot of question...
11, on the opening a business in Aruba... no way true. Need an Arubian Partner and the Business law for AVV or ofshore business registered in Aruba is not benefecial.


Another thing , I went to dive a week a go to the same location, and the Cage is still there. If the cage was evidance in a murder case, why is it still in the water.

Another thing, from 2005 to 2008, we has gone through several mayor stroms that has pull sunken boat more heavy than the cage and in depth more than the cage to shore.

The cage has an Owner and is not Aruban  nor Venezuelan  and not Dutch. it is from a Colombian person and the use has it purpuse.

Other thing, I know the next move of the water Search team......

The man with fake diploma who did provide the cleaning is in a checkmate......perheps the end of the those higher ups is almost near.

CAPS


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: BUCKSHOT on December 03, 2008, 11:09:10 AM
Copied their posts over to this thread. Time to make sense of it all.

Monkeys Uncle?
Monkey?



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Frank on December 03, 2008, 11:17:43 AM
Why would Tacopina want to talk with Dana after the fluff interview he did with Steve Cohen?

"he's a sweet kid" "everywhere he goes, people come up to him and hug him"

Or maybe Joe will say he's "sick" but will Dana ask when did he get "sick?"

How about the Chicago Yenta that Tacopina produced who was "flashed" on that very beach?

But the real question is will Dana ask Joe who has paid him? He once said "friends of Paulus"

Or they may just complain about Greta again.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: SS on December 03, 2008, 11:20:10 AM
Quote from Caps:

Kermit: why are you stir the monkey cage by lying....I never siad the Moko nor Montanja but the Monserat pond.

If it was the Moko or the Montanja or the Soledad pond, he would have walk straigth home. and we would have not even know where he was since he would have been home and no one would have seen him.

The cemetary is a plausable senario...but after more research that plousable scenario is still under investigation and to make that plausable, we have the search and all the logisctics to make it happend, but that require a lot of more inividual involved.

on the issue of chop up and spread all over, that part of the result of several research.

here is what has happend.

1. I do my own research with more capable individuals here in aruba that are part of the local daily night scene in Aruba.
2. it was the Maty apartment used that night.
3. some part of desposal was in several location in Aruba. The Pond was where he burried the last part of the body.
4. After all that blood, he washed off in the pond.
5. from there he took the service road running towards McDonnald.
6. was saw by an withness.
7. withness went to OM and give his statement.
8. OM give instruction to clean up the Pond but, the Santarosa group did not clean it up, since the ground was still muddy and it was posponed but then the rain came and is now full to the brim. Got new pictures.
9. the pond is now offlimited by a chain across the drive way entrance.

10. spoke to Selvetty and asked a lot of question...
11, on the opening a business in Aruba... no way true. Need an Arubian Partner and the Business law for AVV or ofshore business registered in Aruba is not benefecial.


Another thing , I went to dive a week a go to the same location, and the Cage is still there. If the cage was evidance in a murder case, why is it still in the water.

Another thing, from 2005 to 2008, we has gone through several mayor stroms that has pull sunken boat more heavy than the cage and in depth more than the cage to shore.

The cage has an Owner and is not Aruban  nor Venezuelan  and not Dutch. it is from a Colombian person and the use has it purpuse.

Other thing, I know the next move of the water Search team......

The man with fake diploma who did provide the cleaning is in a checkmate......perheps the end of the those higher ups is almost near.

CAPS


************

When we were working on Eerian Ernest/Simian we came up with Booshi Wever as the person with the fake diploma hanging in his office.  Wever is the Minister of Health.  He was also invovled in a large drug deal with Venezuela at one point, and he is reported to own whore houses in Aruba.



Caps -  Why do you think the cage is still there?  If Panter didn't tremove it on January 12th, what do you think they were doing there?  Was this cage connected to the Daury Rodriguiez arrests?  Are they still using the cage as a post office?
 
You mentioned that the cemetery is still plausible.  What needs to be done to start the investigation?  Did you finally narrow it down the the Masonic Cemetery?

Do you know what part of the body was in the pond?  Who has the items that were reportedly found in the pond?
 
 
 
 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Magnolia on December 03, 2008, 11:23:28 AM
Copied their posts over to this thread. Time to make sense of it all.

Monkeys Uncle?
Monkey?



And Caps initials post that goes with the Monkey and Monkey's Uncle.
"Me..J...W...and c's"
Me= Caps
J= John Silvetti
W= Witness
c= Clyde Burke

I think that is right...please correct if wrong.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: SS on December 03, 2008, 11:27:15 AM
I have a question that I have been asking about the shoe.  If we can figure out the answer, we might be able to eliminate some misinformation.  Does anyone have a blow up of the shoe in the trap and a copy of the witness statement describing how Urine was walking?

The pond witness saw him walking without one shoe.  Did he specify if Urine was missing a right shoe or a left shoe?  Supposedly there was a bloody shoe in Urine's closet that Paulass could have disposed of several days later.  Can we determine if it's a right shoe or a left shoe in the cage?  This could possibly clear up all of these shoes, especially since there are reports that one of Urine's shoes was also found in Monserat pond.



Caps - if I recall, we spent a lot of time searching for the owner of the cage, but we never came up with anything.  Kyle had also suggested that only one person would own a fish trap that large.  Can you help us with the owner of the cage?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: MumInOhio on December 03, 2008, 11:31:39 AM
Copied their posts over to this thread. Time to make sense of it all.

Monkeys Uncle?
Monkey?



And Caps initials post that goes with the Monkey and Monkey's Uncle.
"Me..J...W...and c's"
Me= Caps
J= John Silvetti
W= Witness
c= Clyde Burke

I think that is right...please correct if wrong.

C=Clyde Burke...Does "c's"=Cops?  Just wondering?

Which would be Caps' Uncle then?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Magnolia on December 03, 2008, 11:44:10 AM
Copied their posts over to this thread. Time to make sense of it all.

Monkeys Uncle?
Monkey?



And Caps initials post that goes with the Monkey and Monkey's Uncle.
"Me..J...W...and c's"
Me= Caps
J= John Silvetti
W= Witness
c= Clyde Burke

I think that is right...please correct if wrong.

C=Clyde Burke...Does "c's"=Cops?  Just wondering?

Which would be Caps' Uncle then?

I thought c=cops to begin, but I think it was determined that
c=Clyde Burke.
We are sure that Caps would be the monkey....maybe the witness
is the monkey. ::MonkeyConfused::
It will be simple as 1 - 2 - 3 when we figure it out.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: BUCKSHOT on December 03, 2008, 11:56:24 AM
just watched, again, joran's interview.
specifically where we first attempts to cut the interview short, but remains seated.

seems like the question as to when his attorney knew the supposed truth was an issue for him. sure, he had already outed his father. big deal. his father is already suspected to be involved.

his attorneys knowledge of the facts seemed to be an issue for him.

just food for thought...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Blonde on December 03, 2008, 12:10:48 PM
Name: Anita van der Sloot - Hugen
From The Netherlands
Subject & Grades Art, Art History & Design, grades 6-12 M.S.&H.S.
Extra Curricular at ISA Drama, scenery/stage design, mask-making, ISA public displays. Ned. Onderwijs Buitenland NOB Board
Education Academy of Fine Arts in Arnhem (NL)
MO Tekenen A(bachelor) &kandidaats(bachelor of art history)
MO Tekeken B(Masters)
Experience 12 years Lorentz College, Arnhem(NL)
14 years International School of Aruba
3 years Adult Education Vrije Akademie 'De Marienburg'
Special interests/hobbies Waterpaint & mixed media
Drama, Photography, Buddhism
Mask Collector
Favorite Place Europe: Barcelona
US: Santa Fe
South America: Merida (Venezuela)
Favorite Quation: "Life is creation, creation is art"
Personal Mission Statement My personal mission in life is to become a spiritual leader.


That's all I got.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Poochy on December 03, 2008, 12:17:29 PM
Anna...I didn't take it too seriously...saved it because I have been following Carlos severino Tromp...and I liked the Merian connections...fake diplomas.

added start date for new thread subject.

Mum - I just put Caps last post on the codetalker thread while you posted here  ::MonkeyHaHa:: Well, at least we can discuss codetalkers over there w/out getting yelled at on this thread  ::MonkeyCool::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Poochy on December 03, 2008, 12:19:48 PM
CAPS posted "...The man with fake diploma who did provide the cleaning is in a checkmate......perheps the end of the those higher ups is almost near..."

What cleaning needed to be done? And where? The apts, the car, the rocks, the house?

Also, why would a cleaning person need a diploma???   ::MonkeyConfused::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: WhiskeyGirl on December 03, 2008, 12:34:18 PM
My comments in blue below -

FROM KERMIT (LAST FEW POSTS)

on: December 02, 2008, 11:13:54 PM  
Quote from: wreck on December 02, 2008, 11:13:11 PM
Quote from: Kermit on December 02, 2008, 11:09:00 PM
Quote from: Blue Moon of KY on December 02, 2008, 10:45:05 PM
Quote from: Kermit on December 02, 2008, 10:43:35 PM
Jan. 7th picture Kyle said: "In case it isn't clear.. notice the blue denim-like fabric”

Could this have been canvas?  Did Kyle ever examine it close up?  Maybe with other pictures not published?

Kermit, did the crew of Persistence NOT retrieve anything from that cage before the aruban divers came in?  If not WHY?

Who on Persistence was trained to dive?  Was the ROV inside the cage/trap?  I noticed in many of these pictures, there are no bars/wire mesh in front of the pictures.  Why is that?  Were those pictures taken by someone/thing other than an ROV?  Maybe a nano-ROV?

Kyle said: "The Aruban divers were on the police boat, dove from their boat, and returned to their boat."

What was the name of that boat?  Who does it belong to? 

Kyle said: "They were immediately whisked away by the Aruban police and not seen of again by us on the 7th"

Did Kyle ever speak of what was retrieved?  Was it loaded into a container beneath the water's surface and removed?

Kyle said: " John stood back and waited and worked with the Aruban Polis"

IIRC, it was determined in advance that working alone, and without the cooperation of the ALE was not an option.  Did others stand back and wait?  What were they waiting for?  Why stand back?

Kyle said: "John definitely believed the Arubans at their every word"

Opinion of Kyle.  I don't know "every word" so I'm not sure what I should conclude by this one fragment of a sentence.

Kyle said: "John didn't want Tim Miller on board the Persistence because he said Tim wasn't necessary any more and was a liability"

I believe that Tim Miller wants to find every missing person, he is truly gifted from God in his ability to focus and organize people.  I think he may regret having mentioned the skull.  Could positive identification of Natalee come from an image of a skull alone?  Did it have a name etched on the surface?  Did it come with a drivers license?  $50 American?  Would anyone want to give Natalee's family false hope?  Who would that be?

Kyle said: "John told me then he didn't want to hear me ever mention the trap again."

Under what circumstances?  Why?  Did Kyle elaborate?

What if there was good reason to believe that wasn't Natalee?  Bringing the trap up over and over again might stall another search attempt.  There may be remains out there in some of the other targets.


June 10, 2008 = Kyle states: “He's [John Silvetti] seriously making plans to open an Aruba office so he can conduct business easier in S. America and that would allow him to do that."

And this is suspicious because?   Some may question judgement...  As a business person, I would imagine John Silvetti has to make a living too and Aruba may be a real good bargain right now... They may solve this case eventually...and get it right.  imho

Wow! Again - did Kyle tell this to you personally??

all part of the investigation.

Who's investigation?  ALE?  Someone else?  Julia's?

___________________________________

on: December 02, 2008, 11:12:23 PM  

Kyle said: "Schafer is sue crazy."

APRIL 20, 2007, Superior Offshore and Company insiders sold over 10 million shares of common stock to the public, raising gross proceeds in excess of $152 million

LAWSUIT FILED AGAINST SUPERIOR OFFSHORE INTERNATIONAL – LOUIS E. SCHAEFER.  for violation of the federal securities laws.

Where is Schafer is suing anyone?  Who is he suing?  This looks like Superior Offshore and Louis E. Schaefer are being sued...

(snip for space by whiskeygirl)

July 4th weekend Kyle went to John Silvetti's home.
Then Kyle was off to Norway on the Ormage Project.
Then the "Dutch Agent" sent him to Egypt.

I'm not tracking with the group.  Who is the "Dutch Agent"?  Does she have a political affiliation on Aruba? 

If you do some research you find a lot on John Silvetti's businessess and merge with the Dutch

I did some research and found nothing...   ::MonkeyCool::

_________________________________________

on: December 02, 2008, 11:02:28 PM  
Quote from: Bladerunner on December 02, 2008, 10:59:45 PM
Quote from: wreck on December 02, 2008, 10:53:03 PM
Quote from: Kermit on December 02, 2008, 10:43:35 PM
Jan. 7th picture Kyle said: "In case it isn't clear.. notice the blue denim-like fabric”

or canvas...or tarp...or any number of things that are blue...(not the top, they already found that)

You see -- I thought OE was being forthright and well intentioned during that time (January) -- what happened to him by February???

Greed.

Are there wire transfers to support that greed?  Cashola?  Cars?  Lamborghini?  Prostitutes?  Condos?

Someone said "FOLLOW THE MONEY" - I don't see a trail, no trackers either...imho


Kyle: “I did not feel the same and we had a major difference in opinion. He [John Silvetti] was the one who never pressed ALE to be completely open with us with the trap evidence. I would have forced them to. However, John was the one paying my invoices so I was forced to sit back and hope for the best.”

Is it possible that Kyle was not 100% in the know?  Could he be speculating about the missing pieces?  ...imho


THEN

Kyle tried to "strike a deal" with producers.

The opening song for The Apprentice: MONEY, MONEY, MONEY!

Maybe licensing fees are a normal part of operations?  It's how we all get along?  Not 100% in the know?  Maybe they didn't need to buy anything because they had no story?  Maybe the networks did not want to spread rumor and false information?

...imho


____________________________________________________

on: December 02, 2008, 11:00:21 PM  
Quote from: Blue Moon of KY on December 02, 2008, 10:43:31 PM
Quote from: Kermit on December 02, 2008, 10:39:52 PM

Kyle said: " We all know it wasn't a blouse, but I believe they were sent some piece of fabric other than the fabric found inside the trap.”

Will Dr. Phil be asking for the results?  Were these things sent to the NFI?  Maybe they had a GOOD DNA sample for comparison?  Independent testing anywhere?  ...imho

I am so confused. She was in the ocean, she was in a pond, she was in a cemetery, and now she has been sold into slavery.  How would anyone know what is the truth at this point?

She was last seen with J2K and they lied.  ...imho

Kyle said: "The blue fabric was found right where the skirt is pictured. If it isn't her, it will forever haunt me as a major cosmic WTF.”

Will it haunt you forever if it's not Natalee or part of her in that cage?  Will it haunt you enough to wonder "What if she's in one of those other targets?  If not Natalee, who?  Max DeVries?  ...imho

Maybe Max was a victim of human trafficking from Aruba too?

http://www.maxtothemillions.com/


Caps: emailed Dave her body was in the cemetery
        Dave told Caps, we have searched the cemetery
        Caps said she is in MOKO
        Caps said she is in Montajan
        Caps said she is in the cemetery
        Caps said she is cut up and spread around the island


Kyle said: "We're being fed misinformation to keep us searching and out of their way while they cover their asses, destroy evidence, cover their tracks, and keep us out at sea and away from the trap."

"from the trap" or other places to?  Just like the diversion early in the investigation-to the courthouse, black helicopter, landfill.  ...imho

Kermit says: "A picture is worth a thousand words!"

A picture may generate a thousand words, and few if any may be true.  jmho

Are there any pictures that show the items moving from their original location at the ocean floor to the bags?  Perhaps those pictures contain missing clues/angles that reveal just what all those items are?

...imho



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: WhiskeyGirl on December 03, 2008, 12:36:22 PM
CAPS posted "...The man with fake diploma who did provide the cleaning is in a checkmate......perheps the end of the those higher ups is almost near..."

What cleaning needed to be done? And where? The apts, the car, the rocks, the house?

Also, why would a cleaning person need a diploma???   ::MonkeyConfused::

Evidence collection?  Technical degree?  Phony operation?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Keepthefaith on December 03, 2008, 12:39:11 PM
Although some Monkey's agree to disagree,i find it truly overwhelming to know a group of people who truly have BIG hearts and only want the TRUTH.Although no Monkey's road to the truth is the same,With time,i pray we'll all end up at the TRUTH!!! ::MonkeyWink::
The ideas that come from so many searching for the same thing(TRUTH) is the work of something greater then the whole..Just thoughts..I for one am proud to be a Monkey..If that makes sense to anyone.LOL

KEEPTHEFAITH


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: SS on December 03, 2008, 12:55:59 PM
Copied their posts over to this thread. Time to make sense of it all.

Monkeys Uncle?
Monkey?



And Caps initials post that goes with the Monkey and Monkey's Uncle.
"Me..J...W...and c's"
Me= Caps
J= John Silvetti
W= Witness
c= Clyde Burke

I think that is right...please correct if wrong.

C=Clyde Burke...Does "c's"=Cops?  Just wondering?

Which would be Caps' Uncle then?

I thought c=cops to begin, but I think it was determined that
c=Clyde Burke.
We are sure that Caps would be the monkey....maybe the witness
is the monkey. ::MonkeyConfused::
It will be simple as 1 - 2 - 3 when we figure it out.




Mags - you and I are on the same wave length again.  I have suspected for a long time that the witness is a monkey.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: blah on December 03, 2008, 01:07:50 PM
Why would Tacopina want to talk with Dana after the fluff interview he did with Steve Cohen?

"he's a sweet kid" "everywhere he goes, people come up to him and hug him"

Or maybe Joe will say he's "sick" but will Dana ask when did he get "sick?"

How about the Chicago Yenta that Tacopina produced who was "flashed" on that very beach?

But the real question is will Dana ask Joe who has paid him? He once said "friends of Paulus"

Or they may just complain about Greta again.

Maybe you should call into Dana's show and see if you can get a rise out of old Joey


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: WhiskeyGirl on December 03, 2008, 01:21:27 PM
Although some Monkey's agree to disagree,i find it truly overwhelming to know a group of people who truly have BIG hearts and only want the TRUTH.Although no Monkey's road to the truth is the same,With time,i pray we'll all end up at the TRUTH!!! ::MonkeyWink::
The ideas that come from so many searching for the same thing(TRUTH) is the work of something greater then the whole..Just thoughts..I for one am proud to be a Monkey..If that makes sense to anyone.LOL

KEEPTHEFAITH

I stand with the girl.  The little stuff just doesn't matter.  imho


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on December 03, 2008, 01:24:30 PM
Did Kermit confirm that W = Witness?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on December 03, 2008, 01:27:15 PM
Whiskey Girl,

IIRC, one side of the trap was open, namely the side where there is a door...I believe I read that the door was pushed in or out....just do not recall at the moment where I read it.  Just thinking about one of your questions in blue on the previous page.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: johan555 on December 03, 2008, 01:34:18 PM
Name: Anita van der Sloot - Hugen
From The Netherlands
Subject & Grades Art, Art History & Design, grades 6-12 M.S.&H.S.
Extra Curricular at ISA Drama, scenery/stage design, mask-making, ISA public displays. Ned. Onderwijs Buitenland NOB Board
Education Academy of Fine Arts in Arnhem (NL)
MO Tekenen A(bachelor) &kandidaats(bachelor of art history)
MO Tekeken B(Masters)
Experience 12 years Lorentz College, Arnhem(NL)
14 years International School of Aruba
3 years Adult Education Vrije Akademie 'De Marienburg'
Special interests/hobbies Waterpaint & mixed media
Drama, Photography, Buddhism
Mask Collector
Favorite Place Europe: Barcelona
US: Santa Fe
South America: Merida (Venezuela)
Favorite Quation: "Life is creation, creation is art"
Personal Mission Statement My personal mission in life is to become a spiritual leader.


That's all I got.

she was on the R.K. Mavo-school     1975 - 1979

Vicaris van Alphenlaan 18, 5281 AM , Boxtel


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: WhiskeyGirl on December 03, 2008, 01:39:13 PM
Name: Anita van der Sloot - Hugen
From The Netherlands
Subject & Grades Art, Art History & Design, grades 6-12 M.S.&H.S.
Extra Curricular at ISA Drama, scenery/stage design, mask-making, ISA public displays. Ned. Onderwijs Buitenland NOB Board
Education Academy of Fine Arts in Arnhem (NL)
MO Tekenen A(bachelor) &kandidaats(bachelor of art history)
MO Tekeken B(Masters)
Experience 12 years Lorentz College, Arnhem(NL)
14 years International School of Aruba
3 years Adult Education Vrije Akademie 'De Marienburg'
Special interests/hobbies Waterpaint & mixed media
Drama, Photography, Buddhism
Mask Collector
Favorite Place Europe: Barcelona
US: Santa Fe
South America: Merida (Venezuela)
Favorite Quation: "Life is creation, creation is art"
Personal Mission Statement My personal mission in life is to become a spiritual leader.


That's all I got.

I imagine Ms. Hugen has the motivation to clean the trap...

However, I cannot visualize her diving off of the boat and into the water.  

Another random thought...do they celebrate Halloween at the American School on Aruba?  Do they had out little goodie bags?  Are they the Ziplock kind with a Halloween motif?  Or, the small paper kind?  What's really in those bags?

jmho


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: AZSunny on December 03, 2008, 01:39:22 PM
Whiskey Girl,

IIRC, one side of the trap was open, namely the side where there is a door...I believe I read that the door was pushed in or out....just do not recall at the moment where I read it.  Just thinking about one of your questions in blue on the previous page.

I read that the door had been pushed in and that the items were on top of the door.  I believe it was from of Kyles posts.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: truthseeker2 on December 03, 2008, 01:43:55 PM
Did Kermit confirm that W = Witness?

Sorry to interrupt...but what is up with the initials?  I am seeing some posts about guessing what some initials mean.  Can you fill me in on what that is about?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: WhiskeyGirl on December 03, 2008, 01:46:26 PM
Whiskey Girl,

IIRC, one side of the trap was open, namely the side where there is a door...I believe I read that the door was pushed in or out....just do not recall at the moment where I read it.  Just thinking about one of your questions in blue on the previous page.

That's the interesting thing.  Where are the people?  How does anyone know the ROV actually took that picture?  Why leave the bags in there like that?  Why not put them in an underwater collection bag of some kind?  Label them?  Why leave them in a pile?  How did the ROV get so close and no one notice?  Arubans didn't know the ROV was still filming?  Huh?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: MumInOhio on December 03, 2008, 02:03:45 PM
Did Kermit confirm that W = Witness?

Sorry to interrupt...but what is up with the initials?  I am seeing some posts about guessing what some initials mean.  Can you fill me in on what that is about?


LOL...I can confuse you some more...Paraphrasing...

Kermit said something like

Look at the initials you were given in Shango

Think of who told you what and what you know

Then you will know who is who...

Page 1 has the initials. Only thing is those initials weren't posted in Shango, but Kermit may have been mistaken.

Only initial I saw Kermit confirm was "c"=cop's first name and Clyde was confirmed...

One is a cop
One is a Monkey
Then there is the Monkey's Uncle

Easy as 1...2...3  ::MonkeyHaHa::



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on December 03, 2008, 02:07:38 PM
Did Kermit confirm that W = Witness?

Sorry to interrupt...but what is up with the initials?  I am seeing some posts about guessing what some initials mean.  Can you fill me in on what that is about?

Within the past few weeks/threads, Kermit referenced initials posted by Caps.  Kermit, more or less, was giving clues as to who Caps was referring to.   I don't have the actual post, at the moment, but Caps referred to 'Me, J, W and c's'....(I'll try to find it and post a link)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: WhiskeyGirl on December 03, 2008, 02:09:36 PM
Copied their posts over to this thread. Time to make sense of it all.

Monkeys Uncle?
Monkey?



And Caps initials post that goes with the Monkey and Monkey's Uncle.
"Me..J...W...and c's"
Me= Caps
J= John Silvetti
W= Witness
c= Clyde Burke

I think that is right...please correct if wrong.

C=Clyde Burke...Does "c's"=Cops?  Just wondering?

Which would be Caps' Uncle then?

Me = Caps
J = Jacobs (Dennis)
W = Werner (headmaster?)
c's = Carlos N Charlie?  GVC's family?

Kalpoes related to Dompig.  Who is related to Jacobs and his family?  Anyone?

C&C, what other kinds of security tape did they have?  Joran reports the following in the first GVS interview -


Quote
VAN DER SLOOT: I can't say exactly when. I don't know exactly when. The only thing I can say for sure is when I was home because that's — you know you said it yourself to me that the most important thing is to look at facts and, you know, those are facts that you can actually say what time you got home, by video footage what time you left Carlos 'n Charlie's. Those are things you can actually, you know, actually really prove.

VAN SUSTEREN: All right, well let me jump ahead. What time did you get home so we have this time frame?

VAN DER SLOOT: It was 3:35 I think or 3:25 and we had — I had ABC look at the pieces there. Well, they had the pieces too so that's one thing I can be sure of.

How would ABC know this?

What does the video witness say?  Who controls this witness on Aruba?


Could a cop also mean a security person?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Tamikosmom on December 03, 2008, 02:12:44 PM
CASE CLOSED!!!

On the Record w/ Greta
New Developments in Natalee Holloway Case
Friday, February 01, 2008


JOE TACOPINA, JORAN VAN DER SLOOT'S ATTORNEY: ... What I will tell you is this. There is nothing that could come out of this episode on Sunday that's going to convince me, my investigators or anyone with intimate knowledge of this case that Joran had anything to do with Natalee's disappearance ...

VAN SUSTEREN: ... There's nothing privileged, what you say to him.

TACOPINA: ... No, I'm not going to go into my conversation with the client. What I will tell you is this. I walk out of that conversation and tell you that I'm as determined as ever to stand here and tell you that he had nothing to do with the disappearance.  

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,327625,00.html


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on December 03, 2008, 02:12:48 PM
Did Kermit confirm that W = Witness?

Sorry to interrupt...but what is up with the initials?  I am seeing some posts about guessing what some initials mean.  Can you fill me in on what that is about?


LOL...I can confuse you some more...Paraphrasing...

Kermit said something like

Look at the initials you were given in Shango

Think of who told you what and what you know

Then you will know who is who...

Page 1 has the initials. Only thing is those initials weren't posted in Shango, but Kermit may have been mistaken.

Only initial I saw Kermit confirm was "c"=cop's first name and Clyde was confirmed...

One is a cop
One is a Monkey
Then there is the Monkey's Uncle

Easy as 1...2...3  ::MonkeyHaHa::



That's what I thought, Mum....and there seems to be more than 3 people in Caps post.... :smt102


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Tamikosmom on December 03, 2008, 02:18:29 PM
Tamikosmom is one with Jug Twitty!!


NANCY GRACE
Remains of Young White Female Found in Reno Field; Natalee Holloway Case Update
Aired February 15, 2008 - 20:00:00   ET


JUG TWITTY, NATALEE HOLLOWAY`S STEPFATHER: Well, Holly, I`ll tell you, it`s very disappointing. But it doesn`t surprise me. I`ll tell you what really made me sick today to be honest with you is to see his U.S. attorney, Joe Tacopina, whoever, who has been kind of hiding for the last week because he didn`t know what was going to happen all of a sudden come on and he`s all over the TV now. And he is just saying, you know, with a smirk on his face, which just it makes me sick.

But, yes, hey I told you so, nothing was going to happen. When he knows Joran is a time bomb just waiting to -- you know, to blow up. He`s - - I know there are a lot of people, me included, that think the world would be a lot better off without Joran in it.  

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0802/15/ng.01.html


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Poochy on December 03, 2008, 02:21:10 PM
Did Kermit confirm that W = Witness?

Sorry to interrupt...but what is up with the initials?  I am seeing some posts about guessing what some initials mean.  Can you fill me in on what that is about?


LOL...I can confuse you some more...Paraphrasing...

Kermit said something like

Look at the initials you were given in Shango

Think of who told you what and what you know

Then you will know who is who...

Page 1 has the initials. Only thing is those initials weren't posted in Shango, but Kermit may have been mistaken.

Only initial I saw Kermit confirm was "c"=cop's first name and Clyde was confirmed...

One is a cop
One is a Monkey
Then there is the Monkey's Uncle

Easy as 1...2...3  ::MonkeyHaHa::



That's what I thought, Mum....and there seems to be more than 3 people in Caps post.... :smt102

anybody know clyde's last name?
http://www.arubayp.com/whitesearch.html?ListingAgentFormat=eSUPE&name=clyde&Submit=Search&group1=Person





Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: WhiskeyGirl on December 03, 2008, 02:21:51 PM
Did Kermit confirm that W = Witness?

Sorry to interrupt...but what is up with the initials?  I am seeing some posts about guessing what some initials mean.  Can you fill me in on what that is about?


LOL...I can confuse you some more...Paraphrasing...

Kermit said something like

Look at the initials you were given in Shango

Think of who told you what and what you know

Then you will know who is who...

Page 1 has the initials. Only thing is those initials weren't posted in Shango, but Kermit may have been mistaken.

Only initial I saw Kermit confirm was "c"=cop's first name and Clyde was confirmed...

One is a cop
One is a Monkey
Then there is the Monkey's Uncle

Easy as 1...2...3  ::MonkeyHaHa::

I am reminded about some very old posts concerning the ALE, ALE evidence room and those officers that work in the evidence room.

It would not have been at SM because I could never find the forum or figure out how it worked.

The gist from memory, an ALE officer was related somehow to suspects and/or other witnesses, or other BIG conflict of interests people.  There was a current officer in the evidence area that was related to a retired officer.  When it was brought up, pro-JVDS trolls said relatives at ALE would never undermine the investigation and/or that the person had retired.  All very sketchy.

I didn't save the posts at the time.

Does anyone else remember anything along this line of thought?

Also GVC's sister is part of ALE.  I remember asking why she would be a cop and not go into the family business.  Someone suggested she had political aspirations on the island and that was one route to take.  

jmho


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: WhiskeyGirl on December 03, 2008, 04:19:11 PM
Another version comes to mind -

Me = Caps
J = Jacobs (Dennis)
W = Wever (Guido)
c's = Carlos N Charlie?  GVC's family?

Kalpoes related to Dompig.  Who is related to Jacobs and his family?  Anyone?

Could the Wever family (Guido) be related to Anita?



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Frank on December 03, 2008, 04:25:27 PM
Can someone please tell me the how you can criticize Greta for giving Joran free air time but not criticize anyone giving Tacopina free air time?

What is the F'in difference?

If you are going to criticize Greta for putting Joran's lies out there, what the hell is having Joe Tacopina on a show going to do?

Steve Cohen and now Joe Tacopina? What's next van der straaten is going to come on a tell us how hard they worked?

Unless Tacopina can explain who pays him and how since he has by his own words seen the police file, anyone other than his client is responsible for Natalee's disappearance.

I'm afraid Dana better be very prepared and I would suggest getting some legal help before "interviewing" Tacopina.

And why would Tacopina want any attention? Does he think he's going to change some people's minds about Joran?

Just when did Joran become "sick?" before or after he killed Natalee?

How about reading him the Aruba court's decision which clearly states Paulus is involved in her disappearance. I'm sure Janet has that quote.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: klaasend on December 03, 2008, 04:27:41 PM
Looks like the server was down for a while.  I did email Dugga and I don't know if he resolved the problem or if it resolved itself.  Everything looks OK now   ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Frank on December 03, 2008, 04:30:26 PM
"I'll do anything to protect my son"

Is he?

But the women he rapes and sells have to fend for themselves.

Play "hey Joe" while Tacopina is on will you?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: klaasend on December 03, 2008, 04:32:00 PM
Poochy - Clyde Burke


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: WhiskeyGirl on December 03, 2008, 04:43:11 PM
Can someone please tell me the how you can criticize Greta for giving Joran free air time but not criticize anyone giving Tacopina free air time?

What is the F'in difference?

If you are going to criticize Greta for putting Joran's lies out there, what the hell is having Joe Tacopina on a show going to do?

Steve Cohen and now Joe Tacopina? What's next van der straaten is going to come on a tell us how hard they worked?

Unless Tacopina can explain who pays him and how since he has by his own words seen the police file, anyone other than his client is responsible for Natalee's disappearance.

I'm afraid Dana better be very prepared and I would suggest getting some legal help before "interviewing" Tacopina.

And why would Tacopina want any attention? Does he think he's going to change some people's minds about Joran?

Just when did Joran become "sick?" before or after he killed Natalee?

How about reading him the Aruba court's decision which clearly states Paulus is involved in her disappearance. I'm sure Janet has that quote.

I think Dennis Jacobs should be on with Dana.  He's been there since the beginning, and hasn't gone anywhere...

PVDS was there in the beginning and hasn't gone anywhere...

Anita wasn't there in the beginning and it's ALL her fault!  Imagine that!

jmho


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Kat_Gram on December 03, 2008, 04:46:11 PM
Oh Frank. LOL Who is going to call in to Dana's show ? We will just get the party line from Joe. And I think that if anyone in Aruba was interested in charging anyone, they would have done so by now. Joe will claim that there was no " evidence " to convict. I claim they didn't want to find the evidence. Or use what they have. The ball has always been in the hands of Aruban LE and their prosecutors. Joran and the Sloot family will get theirs by some other means and in some other fashion. Not Karma, but, a person can't live their life screwing over other people and expect nothing to happen. Unless you are a member of the mafia and have that protection.       


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Helen Back on December 03, 2008, 04:59:30 PM
Can someone please tell me the how you can criticize Greta for giving Joran free air time but not criticize anyone giving Tacopina free air time?

What is the F'in difference?

If you are going to criticize Greta for putting Joran's lies out there, what the hell is having Joe Tacopina on a show going to do?

Steve Cohen and now Joe Tacopina? What's next van der straaten is going to come on a tell us how hard they worked?

Unless Tacopina can explain who pays him and how since he has by his own words seen the police file, anyone other than his client is responsible for Natalee's disappearance.

I'm afraid Dana better be very prepared and I would suggest getting some legal help before "interviewing" Tacopina.

And why would Tacopina want any attention? Does he think he's going to change some people's minds about Joran?

Just when did Joran become "sick?" before or after he killed Natalee?

How about reading him the Aruba court's decision which clearly states Paulus is involved in her disappearance. I'm sure Janet has that quote.

I can't believe Dana is giving airtime to Tacopina.....I've heard enough of his lies to last the rest of my life. 
He is a paid liar who will say anything to deflect from Joran, Paulus, and the Aruban MOB.

Why should I listen to him for one second?  I won't spend the energy.

First Steve Cohen, architect of the cover up, now Tacopina, paid MOB mouthpiece.

Who's next..........Julia Renfroho or Reneeee?  No thanks.

I love Dana, but my stomach has had enough of this gang.  They all have zero credibility, and giving them a platform is a disservice to those guests who have credibility.

Who cares what Joe Tacopina thinks or says about anything?  Not me.

BLAH! PTOOEY! ::MonkeyNoNo::







Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Lala'sMom on December 03, 2008, 05:01:24 PM
Hmmmm.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Dana on December 03, 2008, 05:02:58 PM
Oh Frank. LOL Who is going to call in to Dana's show ? We will just get the party line from Joe. And I think that if anyone in Aruba was interested in charging anyone, they would have done so by now. Joe will claim that there was no " evidence " to convict. I claim they didn't want to find the evidence. Or use what they have. The ball has always been in the hands of Aruban LE and their prosecutors. Joran and the Sloot family will get theirs by some other means and in some other fashion. Not Karma, but, a person can't live their life screwing over other people and expect nothing to happen. Unless you are a member of the mafia and have that protection.       

wow 1st of all i see that im doing a show thursday night?
thats news to me?
I am doing a show friday night @ 9pm et
The guest list and topic has not been released yet

BTW Frank I hear there is a re run of Leave It To Beaver on that night you should watch it, Eddie and Lumpy will ask all the tough questions no fluff there.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Poochy on December 03, 2008, 05:05:24 PM
Poochy - Clyde Burke
Thanks!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: WhiskeyGirl on December 03, 2008, 05:09:08 PM
"I'll do anything to protect my son"

Is he?

But the women he rapes and sells have to fend for themselves.

Play "hey Joe" while Tacopina is on will you?

Isn't it possible he is protecting JVDS from business interests on the island?  

I remember early on, some suggested he (JVDS) was in jail for protection, not for questioning.

So, isn't it possible PVDS's primary task is to protect JVDS from the island?

JVDS continues to breath, open his mouth, hot air escapes and blows in the wind, and the island continues to suffer for whatever JVDS did in May 2005?

What if there are business interests on the island that would rather silence the wind?  What ever happened is so horrible that Joran slept at the International School? 

Who has PVDS really been protecting JVDS from?

What will happen next?  Will the 'wind' ever be still?


imho



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: WhiskeyGirl on December 03, 2008, 05:10:55 PM
Oh Frank. LOL Who is going to call in to Dana's show ? We will just get the party line from Joe. And I think that if anyone in Aruba was interested in charging anyone, they would have done so by now. Joe will claim that there was no " evidence " to convict. I claim they didn't want to find the evidence. Or use what they have. The ball has always been in the hands of Aruban LE and their prosecutors. Joran and the Sloot family will get theirs by some other means and in some other fashion. Not Karma, but, a person can't live their life screwing over other people and expect nothing to happen. Unless you are a member of the mafia and have that protection.       

wow 1st of all i see that im doing a show thursday night?
thats news to me?
I am doing a show friday night @ 9pm et
The guest list and topic has not been released yet

BTW Frank I hear there is a re run of Leave It To Beaver on that night you should watch it, Eddie and Lumpy will ask all the tough questions no fluff there.

Did you miss a meeting?   lol.....


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Kermit on December 03, 2008, 05:18:51 PM
CapsLockWizard
Scared Monkey
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Posts: 1027
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Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #931 on: Today at 12:19:56 AM »
   
Kermit: why are you stir the monkey cage by lying....I never siad the Moko nor Montanja but the Monserat pond.

If it was the Moko or the Montanja or the Soledad pond, he would have walk straigth home. and we would have not even know where he was since he would have been home and no one would have seen him.

The cemetary is a plausable senario...but after more research that plousable scenario is still under investigation and to make that plausable, we have the search and all the logisctics to make it happend, but that require a lot of more inividual involved.

on the issue of chop up and spread all over, that part of the result of several research.

here is what has happend.

1. I do my own research with more capable individuals here in aruba that are part of the local daily night scene in Aruba.
2. it was the Maty apartment used that night.
3. some part of desposal was in several location in Aruba. The Pond was where he burried the last part of the body.
4. After all that blood, he washed off in the pond.
5. from there he took the service road running towards McDonnald.
6. was saw by an withness.
7. withness went to OM and give his statement.
8. OM give instruction to clean up the Pond but, the Santarosa group did not clean it up, since the ground was still muddy and it was posponed but then the rain came and is now full to the brim. Got new pictures.
9. the pond is now offlimited by a chain across the drive way entrance.

10. spoke to Selvetty and asked a lot of question...
11, on the opening a business in Aruba... no way true. Need an Arubian Partner and the Business law for AVV or ofshore business registered in Aruba is not benefecial.


Another thing , I went to dive a week a go to the same location, and the Cage is still there. If the cage was evidance in a murder case, why is it still in the water.

Another thing, from 2005 to 2008, we has gone through several mayor stroms that has pull sunken boat more heavy than the cage and in depth more than the cage to shore.

The cage has an Owner and is not Aruban  nor Venezuelan  and not Dutch. it is from a Colombian person and the use has it purpuse.

Other thing, I know the next move of the water Search team......

The man with fake diploma who did provide the cleaning is in a checkmate......perheps the end of the those higher ups is almost near.

CAPS


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Dana on December 03, 2008, 05:19:14 PM
Oh Frank. LOL Who is going to call in to Dana's show ? We will just get the party line from Joe. And I think that if anyone in Aruba was interested in charging anyone, they would have done so by now. Joe will claim that there was no " evidence " to convict. I claim they didn't want to find the evidence. Or use what they have. The ball has always been in the hands of Aruban LE and their prosecutors. Joran and the Sloot family will get theirs by some other means and in some other fashion. Not Karma, but, a person can't live their life screwing over other people and expect nothing to happen. Unless you are a member of the mafia and have that protection.       

wow 1st of all i see that im doing a show thursday night?
thats news to me?
I am doing a show friday night @ 9pm et
The guest list and topic has not been released yet

BTW Frank I hear there is a re run of Leave It To Beaver on that night you should watch it, Eddie and Lumpy will ask all the tough questions no fluff there.

Did you miss a meeting?   lol.....

nope seeing i book my guests and decide what night the show is on Im pretty sure whats going on.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Kermit on December 03, 2008, 05:20:01 PM
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Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #931 on: Today at 12:19:56 AM »
   
Kermit: why are you stir the monkey cage by lying....I never siad the Moko nor Montanja but the Monserat pond.

If it was the Moko or the Montanja or the Soledad pond, he would have walk straigth home. and we would have not even know where he was since he would have been home and no one would have seen him.

The cemetary is a plausable senario...but after more research that plousable scenario is still under investigation and to make that plausable, we have the search and all the logisctics to make it happend, but that require a lot of more inividual involved.

on the issue of chop up and spread all over, that part of the result of several research.

here is what has happend.

1. I do my own research with more capable individuals here in aruba that are part of the local daily night scene in Aruba.
2. it was the Maty apartment used that night.
3. some part of desposal was in several location in Aruba. The Pond was where he burried the last part of the body.
4. After all that blood, he washed off in the pond.
5. from there he took the service road running towards McDonnald.
6. was saw by an withness.
7. withness went to OM and give his statement.
8. OM give instruction to clean up the Pond but, the Santarosa group did not clean it up, since the ground was still muddy and it was posponed but then the rain came and is now full to the brim. Got new pictures.
9. the pond is now offlimited by a chain across the drive way entrance.

10. spoke to Selvetty and asked a lot of question...
11, on the opening a business in Aruba... no way true. Need an Arubian Partner and the Business law for AVV or ofshore business registered in Aruba is not benefecial.


Another thing , I went to dive a week a go to the same location, and the Cage is still there. If the cage was evidance in a murder case, why is it still in the water.

Another thing, from 2005 to 2008, we has gone through several mayor stroms that has pull sunken boat more heavy than the cage and in depth more than the cage to shore.

The cage has an Owner and is not Aruban  nor Venezuelan  and not Dutch. it is from a Colombian person and the use has it purpuse.

Other thing, I know the next move of the water Search team......

The man with fake diploma who did provide the cleaning is in a checkmate......perheps the end of the those higher ups is almost near.

CAPS

CAPS STARTS OUT SAYING IT WAS MONTANA POND

January 22, 2008:

 Well it says clearley the montana pond.

After this Joran at this time desided to despose of the body in Montana body of water.

 

January 27, 2008:

 

but the real body was dumped in a body of water in noord that has not been search

The MUI was a diversion for something else.

 

The day the search was in noord and the body of water that was search by the police was not to retrieve a body, bud to retrieve something else

The drop has happend but is not the body natalee drop.

 

February 1, 2008:

In my report I choose the White one but my road is not paved

The Montana Park Apartment is where all started..The Sex etc....

so look for the owners

CAPS BEGINS PLANTING THE SEED OF NEEDING A WITNESS

JaLALA:

The Must Be 2 witness for a conviction... but then they will play the "Not reliable Witness" for one of the witness.

The father can not testified against the son. The mother will Lie. July the reporter got his papers, etc

If no Second Withness, and Not A body, He will Walk

BETWEEN FEB 1 AND FEB 5, CAPS YAMMERS ON AND ON ABOUT NEEDING A WITNESS.  ALSO YAMMERS ON AND ON ABOUT HOW THEY NEVER PUT HER IN THE OCEAN.  ALSO ASKING KLAAS RELENTLESSLY IF SHE'S HEARD BACK FROM DAVE YET - ABOUT HIS EMAIL TO DAVE IN DECEMBER

 

NOW INTRODUCES THE WHITEHOUSE - WHICH IS NEAR MOKO POND

February 5, 2008

 

They mus have gone to this planned rave party at the Whitehouse. where she was raped and died.

 

THEN VOILA!  A WITNESS APPEARS TO CAPS.  THE ANSWER TO HIS CONSTANT REMINDER TO MONKEYS THAT WE NEED ONE.  NOTE THE WITNESS FIRST CLAIMS A TIME OF 3:44 AM


February 8, 2008

 

I know,

a Midnight aowl (SHOCO) saw him from his veranda at 3:44 passing in fornt of his house....All in muddy from the wate down....

Have new google earth.

 

CAPS FINALLY HEARS BACK FROM DAVE - AND AT THIS POINT, HE IS STILL DISCUSSING BOTH MOKO AND MONTANA - NO MENTION AT THIS POINT OF MONSERAT POND
February 16, 2008

Klaasend:

Did got Email from the man, He know nows and Understand.

 
ON THIS SAME DATE - CAPS NOW CLAIMS THIS WITNESS WAS MOVING AROUND, ENOUGH TO KNOW SECURITY WAS PATROLLING AND CAMERAS ROLLING

The witness state that the Bird was constantly moving in circle around the area that night..

and the bird normaly will wake you up and one will tent to go look up in the sky of what is going on. and wonder.

some take pictures. If picture was taken, the Man in the bird with his power beam will see you taken pictures. and can zoom in to see who you are.

CAPS TELLS US HIS UNCLE IS AN ATTORNEY

Yes the government has his own set of lawyers and only work for the Government.

The Lawyers also represents a group that work hand in hand with the OM.


I was wondering which lawyer was on the Roll that night to handel the cases.

On the Roll means (schedule) How I know this is that my uncle is a Lawyer and He always talk abaout to have Roll duty.

It means that he is on the evening list to handel cases comming in that night. it can also be a sub prosecuter.

 

NOW THE TIME THE WITNESS CLAIMS HAS CHANGED.  WHY WAS THIS DONE?  DID THEY REALIZE THE FIRST TIME STATED DIDN'T WORK WITH THE KNOWN TIMELINE?

February 23, 2008

CAPS say: 4:05 AM Joran passing in front of a witness house dirty and missing the Right shoe
 

NOW ENTER THE PERSISTENCE SEARCH OF THE POND.  BUT WAIT, IT'S NEITHER OF THE PONDS CAPS HAS PREVIOUSLY CLAIMED - THEY SEARCH THE MONSERRAT POND

CAPS ALSO CLAIMS THIS POND CONTAINS A TENNIS SHOE AND HUMAN REMAINS

SPECIAL NOTE - ACCORDING TO DAVE HOLLOWAY, CAPS WITNESS HAS MET WITH JOHN SILVETTI OF THE PERSISTENCE BY NOW[/b]

February 27, 2008

 

This time they have some special areas that they are checking. It started this morning and continue in the morning.

February 28, 2008:

 

Yes,

At 9:00 will go over there to amke sure they do not mis a spot....The sneaker is there....where is the sneaker is the remains.

 

http://www.bondia.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=858&Itemid=1

Grupo di barco Mericano “Persistance” ta busca den dam na Montserat
Thursday, 28 February 2008

ORANJESTAD - Grupo di e barco Mericano “Persistance” ayera a dicidi di drenta dam na Montserat pa asina wak si nan por haya algo. Nan a pone un sonar ultra sofistica cu a base di un software ta lagabo wak tur cos cu tin tanto den e awa cu den e lodo den  un forma tridimencional. Aunke cu e dam ta sumamente seco toch a logra haci un trabou amplio pa asina wak si por encontra algo di Nathalie Holloway. Despues di analisa tur e graphiconan cu nan a logra compila den e dam lo bai wak si ta yega na algo of no.

 

Quote from: oceanexploration on February 28, 2008, 03:34:45 PM


This is two of our crew out surveying the pond yesterday (27-Feb).  They are using a SonaVision scanning sonar. The sonar scans 360 degrees out to a user select range.  In this case we used between 50-100ft range.  By placing multiple "drops" approximately 75-100 ft apart you can quickly and efficiently scan an entire pond.
I must have a good laught at this one. The boat they are in is TINY and Tony is a big guy.

 

DESTINY ASKING THE MONKEYS IF SHE SHOULD SEND FISH TRAP PHOTOS POSTED BY ROBIN H TO ARUBAN COPS - CAPS TELLING HER NO WAY, SEVERAL TIMES - EVEN WARNS DESTINY TO BE FEARFUL FOR HERSELF IF SHE DOES

February 28, 2008:

You are right LALA, they have a room full of intell person sitting and listeting and watching..I know this for a fact.

I say do not make a move.

Want to play it safe...tell them that your computer got a Virus...had to be reformatted.  everything is lost.

We live in a digital world where loosing a bit is not much but for safegaurd one self..

The new MOSvirus.irc just eat your hard disk and you are foregiven.

Lay low for a couple of days and back on track

CAPS

 

Do not sent anything...

I know that for a fact that if they know who you are they will fabricate any thing to put you away....I know that for a fact...so be carfull....

 BTW, they have all information them self....They are the one that is playing in the band.

now they have lost a band string and they want to compare....

Shango would say DO NOT TSURT....bad move....you will not win if you show your playing cards.

 

CAPS REVEALS HE HAS A BROTHER WORKING WITH EITHER LAW ENFORCEMENT OR THE PROSECUTOR'S OFFICE

 

Klaasend:

watch the news of tomorrow on what the comments are today from Hans MOS...He is pisst on the search in Monserat. My bother was telling me that MOS want to know all the detail and how they came about to that area.

...Hmmmmm..

I was not there to listen to the news today...but MOS is upset....

 

CAPS VISITS THE POND HIMSELF

February 28, 2008:

 

 

Well I did not know till I check where the pipes are leading to.

I will have picture of the pipes tomorrow.

to get in the pipes, one must put on a coverall becuase you will get dirty and it is very dark and a long walk. to the other end.

I need big light to check these pipes.

when the pond fills up, all the debry stay in the pond only the water will move to the other end in another waterbasin. I never know about this but my dad has clearyfy it. The rain water will move to another water basin. anything large and havy will stay in the pipe since the water flow is not strong. The flow only start when the pond fills-up.

Will check it but it has a horrable stenge.

I will take some picture to compare.

THE DAY CAPS VISITS THE POND, CAPS NOW STATES THERE COULD BE HUMAN REMAINS IN MONSERAT POND, AND ALSO HUMAN REMAINS IN MOKO POND - WHICH TIES IN WITH HIS EARLIER ASSERTIONS OF THE WHITEHOUSE APARTMENTS.

KEEP REMEMBERING THAT THIS WITNESS OF CAPS HAS BY NOW MET WITH JOHN SILVETTI


February 29, 2008

The problem with Moko pool is that if they dump the body in there, this acctiion leave Joran walking home. and not to the McDonnald.

Now lets assume that what is said that the head was not part of the body no more, and that both places has been used.

The Moko Pool which is right at the doorstep of the Whitehouse Apartment and there they could have dumb a peace of the body then drive Joran to the Monserat Pool and split leaving Joran alone.

Driving to the Monserat they will dump an other peace of the body.
Split and leave Joran behind.
The Monserat pool will leave him walking to McDonald.

This will give both Simian and Shango Validity for their writtings.

BRB..
CAPS

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Feb 26CAPS posted: Reply #2727 on: February 26, 2008, 09:29:40 AM
The pond in question (MOKO) is right out near the Whitehouse Apartment.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1952.2720


CAPS posted: Reply #2729 on: February 26, 2008, 10:36:09 AM
Look for Noord and look for Moko.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1952.2720

Find Aruba. Look for Noord. Look for Montaña. Look for Moko
CAPS posted:  Reply #7 on: April 15, 2008, 09:24:02 AM »
they where located in Moko and where in the massages bussines
now lets look at the addess to the Dutch Apartmnts

if we find this complex we have the murder place
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2787.0

CAPS posted:
one is called the Whitehouse or MOKO 30
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2787.0




Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Kermit on December 03, 2008, 05:20:34 PM
Oh Frank. LOL Who is going to call in to Dana's show ? We will just get the party line from Joe. And I think that if anyone in Aruba was interested in charging anyone, they would have done so by now. Joe will claim that there was no " evidence " to convict. I claim they didn't want to find the evidence. Or use what they have. The ball has always been in the hands of Aruban LE and their prosecutors. Joran and the Sloot family will get theirs by some other means and in some other fashion. Not Karma, but, a person can't live their life screwing over other people and expect nothing to happen. Unless you are a member of the mafia and have that protection.       

wow 1st of all i see that im doing a show thursday night?
thats news to me?
I am doing a show friday night @ 9pm et
The guest list and topic has not been released yet

BTW Frank I hear there is a re run of Leave It To Beaver on that night you should watch it, Eddie and Lumpy will ask all the tough questions no fluff there.

Did you miss a meeting?   lol.....

nope seeing i book my guests and decide what night the show is on Im pretty sure whats going on.

You da MAN!

 ::MonkeyCool::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Kermit on December 03, 2008, 05:21:38 PM
Another version comes to mind -

Me = Caps
J = Jacobs (Dennis)
W = Wever (Guido)
c's = Carlos N Charlie?  GVC's family?

Kalpoes related to Dompig.  Who is related to Jacobs and his family?  Anyone?

Could the Wever family (Guido) be related to Anita?



John Silvetti is the one that met with Caps.
J = John Silveti
C = Cylde Burke = he is the leak.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781
Post by: wreck on December 03, 2008, 05:25:27 PM
I'll bring this over...

DON'T MISS THURSDAY NIGHTS DANA PRETZER SHOW with GUEST JOE TACOPINA   ::MonkeyShocked:: 



That's interesting. Just my opinion, but if Tacky is willing to speak with Dana, then Tacky ain't happy at the way things are going. Between him calling Joran sociopathic, and Paulus a simpleton, and him doing Dana, I think the glue holding his hair in place is melting. Worry will do that to you.

Something's clicked in his head, IMO.


Maybe that clicking...

I remember reading Joe T. saying something to the effect that he "defends the evidence"...and "There is no evidence."  Maybe Joran is producing more evidence?  Maybe Joran is getting to close to the truth?

I'm confused .... Klaas said "THURSDAY NIGHT WITH JOE TACOPINA"   ::MonkeyConfused::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781
Post by: Dana on December 03, 2008, 05:26:53 PM
I'll bring this over...

DON'T MISS THURSDAY NIGHTS DANA PRETZER SHOW with GUEST JOE TACOPINA   ::MonkeyShocked:: 



That's interesting. Just my opinion, but if Tacky is willing to speak with Dana, then Tacky ain't happy at the way things are going. Between him calling Joran sociopathic, and Paulus a simpleton, and him doing Dana, I think the glue holding his hair in place is melting. Worry will do that to you.

Something's clicked in his head, IMO.


Maybe that clicking...

I remember reading Joe T. saying something to the effect that he "defends the evidence"...and "There is no evidence."  Maybe Joran is producing more evidence?  Maybe Joran is getting to close to the truth?

I'm confused .... Klaas said "THURSDAY NIGHT WITH JOE TACOPINA"   ::MonkeyConfused::

dont be confused
Im NOT DOING A SHOW THURSDAY

Im am Friday night.
Guest list TBA


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Patriot on December 03, 2008, 05:28:57 PM
Oh Frank. LOL Who is going to call in to Dana's show ? We will just get the party line from Joe. And I think that if anyone in Aruba was interested in charging anyone, they would have done so by now. Joe will claim that there was no " evidence " to convict. I claim they didn't want to find the evidence. Or use what they have. The ball has always been in the hands of Aruban LE and their prosecutors. Joran and the Sloot family will get theirs by some other means and in some other fashion. Not Karma, but, a person can't live their life screwing over other people and expect nothing to happen. Unless you are a member of the mafia and have that protection.       

wow 1st of all i see that im doing a show thursday night?
thats news to me?
I am doing a show friday night @ 9pm et
The guest list and topic has not been released yet

BTW Frank I hear there is a re run of Leave It To Beaver on that night you should watch it, Eddie and Lumpy will ask all the tough questions no fluff there.

Did you miss a meeting?   lol.....

nope seeing i book my guests and decide what night the show is on Im pretty sure whats going on.

Well if you do have Joe Taco on Dana, please ask him who is paying his attorney fees.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Keepthefaith on December 03, 2008, 05:29:10 PM
Another version comes to mind -

Me = Caps
J = Jacobs (Dennis)
W = Wever (Guido)
c's = Carlos N Charlie?  GVC's family?

Kalpoes related to Dompig.  Who is related to Jacobs and his family?  Anyone?

Could the Wever family (Guido) be related to Anita?



John Silvetti is the one that met with Caps.
J = John Silveti
C = Cylde Burke = he is the leak.

Who or what is "W" Kermit??


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: wreck on December 03, 2008, 05:30:14 PM
Oh Frank. LOL Who is going to call in to Dana's show ? We will just get the party line from Joe. And I think that if anyone in Aruba was interested in charging anyone, they would have done so by now. Joe will claim that there was no " evidence " to convict. I claim they didn't want to find the evidence. Or use what they have. The ball has always been in the hands of Aruban LE and their prosecutors. Joran and the Sloot family will get theirs by some other means and in some other fashion. Not Karma, but, a person can't live their life screwing over other people and expect nothing to happen. Unless you are a member of the mafia and have that protection.       

wow 1st of all i see that im doing a show thursday night?
thats news to me?
I am doing a show friday night @ 9pm et
The guest list and topic has not been released yet

BTW Frank I hear there is a re run of Leave It To Beaver on that night you should watch it, Eddie and Lumpy will ask all the tough questions no fluff there.

Did you miss a meeting?   lol.....

nope seeing i book my guests and decide what night the show is on Im pretty sure whats going on.

Well if you do have Joe Taco on Dana, please ask him who is paying his attorney fees.
... and maybe Red can have that long awaited debate with him!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Keepthefaith on December 03, 2008, 05:31:15 PM
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Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #931 on: Today at 12:19:56 AM »
   
Kermit: why are you stir the monkey cage by lying....I never siad the Moko nor Montanja but the Monserat pond.

If it was the Moko or the Montanja or the Soledad pond, he would have walk straigth home. and we would have not even know where he was since he would have been home and no one would have seen him.

The cemetary is a plausable senario...but after more research that plousable scenario is still under investigation and to make that plausable, we have the search and all the logisctics to make it happend, but that require a lot of more inividual involved.

on the issue of chop up and spread all over, that part of the result of several research.

here is what has happend.

1. I do my own research with more capable individuals here in aruba that are part of the local daily night scene in Aruba.
2. it was the Maty apartment used that night.
3. some part of desposal was in several location in Aruba. The Pond was where he burried the last part of the body.
4. After all that blood, he washed off in the pond.
5. from there he took the service road running towards McDonnald.
6. was saw by an withness.
7. withness went to OM and give his statement.
8. OM give instruction to clean up the Pond but, the Santarosa group did not clean it up, since the ground was still muddy and it was posponed but then the rain came and is now full to the brim. Got new pictures.
9. the pond is now offlimited by a chain across the drive way entrance.

10. spoke to Selvetty and asked a lot of question...
11, on the opening a business in Aruba... no way true. Need an Arubian Partner and the Business law for AVV or ofshore business registered in Aruba is not benefecial.


Another thing , I went to dive a week a go to the same location, and the Cage is still there. If the cage was evidance in a murder case, why is it still in the water.

Another thing, from 2005 to 2008, we has gone through several mayor stroms that has pull sunken boat more heavy than the cage and in depth more than the cage to shore.

The cage has an Owner and is not Aruban  nor Venezuelan  and not Dutch. it is from a Colombian person and the use has it purpuse.

Other thing, I know the next move of the water Search team......

The man with fake diploma who did provide the cleaning is in a checkmate......perheps the end of the those higher ups is almost near.

CAPS

Bringing together for Monkeys..


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Keepthefaith on December 03, 2008, 05:31:44 PM
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Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #931 on: Today at 12:19:56 AM »
   
Kermit: why are you stir the monkey cage by lying....I never siad the Moko nor Montanja but the Monserat pond.

If it was the Moko or the Montanja or the Soledad pond, he would have walk straigth home. and we would have not even know where he was since he would have been home and no one would have seen him.

The cemetary is a plausable senario...but after more research that plousable scenario is still under investigation and to make that plausable, we have the search and all the logisctics to make it happend, but that require a lot of more inividual involved.

on the issue of chop up and spread all over, that part of the result of several research.

here is what has happend.

1. I do my own research with more capable individuals here in aruba that are part of the local daily night scene in Aruba.
2. it was the Maty apartment used that night.
3. some part of desposal was in several location in Aruba. The Pond was where he burried the last part of the body.
4. After all that blood, he washed off in the pond.
5. from there he took the service road running towards McDonnald.
6. was saw by an withness.
7. withness went to OM and give his statement.
8. OM give instruction to clean up the Pond but, the Santarosa group did not clean it up, since the ground was still muddy and it was posponed but then the rain came and is now full to the brim. Got new pictures.
9. the pond is now offlimited by a chain across the drive way entrance.

10. spoke to Selvetty and asked a lot of question...
11, on the opening a business in Aruba... no way true. Need an Arubian Partner and the Business law for AVV or ofshore business registered in Aruba is not benefecial.


Another thing , I went to dive a week a go to the same location, and the Cage is still there. If the cage was evidance in a murder case, why is it still in the water.

Another thing, from 2005 to 2008, we has gone through several mayor stroms that has pull sunken boat more heavy than the cage and in depth more than the cage to shore.

The cage has an Owner and is not Aruban  nor Venezuelan  and not Dutch. it is from a Colombian person and the use has it purpuse.

Other thing, I know the next move of the water Search team......

The man with fake diploma who did provide the cleaning is in a checkmate......perheps the end of the those higher ups is almost near.

CAPS

CAPS STARTS OUT SAYING IT WAS MONTANA POND

January 22, 2008:

 Well it says clearley the montana pond.

After this Joran at this time desided to despose of the body in Montana body of water.

 

January 27, 2008:

 

but the real body was dumped in a body of water in noord that has not been search

The MUI was a diversion for something else.

 

The day the search was in noord and the body of water that was search by the police was not to retrieve a body, bud to retrieve something else

The drop has happend but is not the body natalee drop.

 

February 1, 2008:

In my report I choose the White one but my road is not paved

The Montana Park Apartment is where all started..The Sex etc....

so look for the owners

CAPS BEGINS PLANTING THE SEED OF NEEDING A WITNESS

JaLALA:

The Must Be 2 witness for a conviction... but then they will play the "Not reliable Witness" for one of the witness.

The father can not testified against the son. The mother will Lie. July the reporter got his papers, etc

If no Second Withness, and Not A body, He will Walk

BETWEEN FEB 1 AND FEB 5, CAPS YAMMERS ON AND ON ABOUT NEEDING A WITNESS.  ALSO YAMMERS ON AND ON ABOUT HOW THEY NEVER PUT HER IN THE OCEAN.  ALSO ASKING KLAAS RELENTLESSLY IF SHE'S HEARD BACK FROM DAVE YET - ABOUT HIS EMAIL TO DAVE IN DECEMBER

 

NOW INTRODUCES THE WHITEHOUSE - WHICH IS NEAR MOKO POND

February 5, 2008

 

They mus have gone to this planned rave party at the Whitehouse. where she was raped and died.

 

THEN VOILA!  A WITNESS APPEARS TO CAPS.  THE ANSWER TO HIS CONSTANT REMINDER TO MONKEYS THAT WE NEED ONE.  NOTE THE WITNESS FIRST CLAIMS A TIME OF 3:44 AM


February 8, 2008

 

I know,

a Midnight aowl (SHOCO) saw him from his veranda at 3:44 passing in fornt of his house....All in muddy from the wate down....

Have new google earth.

 

CAPS FINALLY HEARS BACK FROM DAVE - AND AT THIS POINT, HE IS STILL DISCUSSING BOTH MOKO AND MONTANA - NO MENTION AT THIS POINT OF MONSERAT POND
February 16, 2008

Klaasend:

Did got Email from the man, He know nows and Understand.

 
ON THIS SAME DATE - CAPS NOW CLAIMS THIS WITNESS WAS MOVING AROUND, ENOUGH TO KNOW SECURITY WAS PATROLLING AND CAMERAS ROLLING

The witness state that the Bird was constantly moving in circle around the area that night..

and the bird normaly will wake you up and one will tent to go look up in the sky of what is going on. and wonder.

some take pictures. If picture was taken, the Man in the bird with his power beam will see you taken pictures. and can zoom in to see who you are.

CAPS TELLS US HIS UNCLE IS AN ATTORNEY

Yes the government has his own set of lawyers and only work for the Government.

The Lawyers also represents a group that work hand in hand with the OM.


I was wondering which lawyer was on the Roll that night to handel the cases.

On the Roll means (schedule) How I know this is that my uncle is a Lawyer and He always talk abaout to have Roll duty.

It means that he is on the evening list to handel cases comming in that night. it can also be a sub prosecuter.

 

NOW THE TIME THE WITNESS CLAIMS HAS CHANGED.  WHY WAS THIS DONE?  DID THEY REALIZE THE FIRST TIME STATED DIDN'T WORK WITH THE KNOWN TIMELINE?

February 23, 2008

CAPS say: 4:05 AM Joran passing in front of a witness house dirty and missing the Right shoe
 

NOW ENTER THE PERSISTENCE SEARCH OF THE POND.  BUT WAIT, IT'S NEITHER OF THE PONDS CAPS HAS PREVIOUSLY CLAIMED - THEY SEARCH THE MONSERRAT POND

CAPS ALSO CLAIMS THIS POND CONTAINS A TENNIS SHOE AND HUMAN REMAINS

SPECIAL NOTE - ACCORDING TO DAVE HOLLOWAY, CAPS WITNESS HAS MET WITH JOHN SILVETTI OF THE PERSISTENCE BY NOW[/b]

February 27, 2008

 

This time they have some special areas that they are checking. It started this morning and continue in the morning.

February 28, 2008:

 

Yes,

At 9:00 will go over there to amke sure they do not mis a spot....The sneaker is there....where is the sneaker is the remains.

 

http://www.bondia.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=858&Itemid=1

Grupo di barco Mericano “Persistance” ta busca den dam na Montserat
Thursday, 28 February 2008

ORANJESTAD - Grupo di e barco Mericano “Persistance” ayera a dicidi di drenta dam na Montserat pa asina wak si nan por haya algo. Nan a pone un sonar ultra sofistica cu a base di un software ta lagabo wak tur cos cu tin tanto den e awa cu den e lodo den  un forma tridimencional. Aunke cu e dam ta sumamente seco toch a logra haci un trabou amplio pa asina wak si por encontra algo di Nathalie Holloway. Despues di analisa tur e graphiconan cu nan a logra compila den e dam lo bai wak si ta yega na algo of no.

 

Quote from: oceanexploration on February 28, 2008, 03:34:45 PM


This is two of our crew out surveying the pond yesterday (27-Feb).  They are using a SonaVision scanning sonar. The sonar scans 360 degrees out to a user select range.  In this case we used between 50-100ft range.  By placing multiple "drops" approximately 75-100 ft apart you can quickly and efficiently scan an entire pond.
I must have a good laught at this one. The boat they are in is TINY and Tony is a big guy.

 

DESTINY ASKING THE MONKEYS IF SHE SHOULD SEND FISH TRAP PHOTOS POSTED BY ROBIN H TO ARUBAN COPS - CAPS TELLING HER NO WAY, SEVERAL TIMES - EVEN WARNS DESTINY TO BE FEARFUL FOR HERSELF IF SHE DOES

February 28, 2008:

You are right LALA, they have a room full of intell person sitting and listeting and watching..I know this for a fact.

I say do not make a move.

Want to play it safe...tell them that your computer got a Virus...had to be reformatted.  everything is lost.

We live in a digital world where loosing a bit is not much but for safegaurd one self..

The new MOSvirus.irc just eat your hard disk and you are foregiven.

Lay low for a couple of days and back on track

CAPS

 

Do not sent anything...

I know that for a fact that if they know who you are they will fabricate any thing to put you away....I know that for a fact...so be carfull....

 BTW, they have all information them self....They are the one that is playing in the band.

now they have lost a band string and they want to compare....

Shango would say DO NOT TSURT....bad move....you will not win if you show your playing cards.

 

CAPS REVEALS HE HAS A BROTHER WORKING WITH EITHER LAW ENFORCEMENT OR THE PROSECUTOR'S OFFICE

 

Klaasend:

watch the news of tomorrow on what the comments are today from Hans MOS...He is pisst on the search in Monserat. My bother was telling me that MOS want to know all the detail and how they came about to that area.

...Hmmmmm..

I was not there to listen to the news today...but MOS is upset....

 

CAPS VISITS THE POND HIMSELF

February 28, 2008:

 

 

Well I did not know till I check where the pipes are leading to.

I will have picture of the pipes tomorrow.

to get in the pipes, one must put on a coverall becuase you will get dirty and it is very dark and a long walk. to the other end.

I need big light to check these pipes.

when the pond fills up, all the debry stay in the pond only the water will move to the other end in another waterbasin. I never know about this but my dad has clearyfy it. The rain water will move to another water basin. anything large and havy will stay in the pipe since the water flow is not strong. The flow only start when the pond fills-up.

Will check it but it has a horrable stenge.

I will take some picture to compare.

THE DAY CAPS VISITS THE POND, CAPS NOW STATES THERE COULD BE HUMAN REMAINS IN MONSERAT POND, AND ALSO HUMAN REMAINS IN MOKO POND - WHICH TIES IN WITH HIS EARLIER ASSERTIONS OF THE WHITEHOUSE APARTMENTS.

KEEP REMEMBERING THAT THIS WITNESS OF CAPS HAS BY NOW MET WITH JOHN SILVETTI


February 29, 2008

The problem with Moko pool is that if they dump the body in there, this acctiion leave Joran walking home. and not to the McDonnald.

Now lets assume that what is said that the head was not part of the body no more, and that both places has been used.

The Moko Pool which is right at the doorstep of the Whitehouse Apartment and there they could have dumb a peace of the body then drive Joran to the Monserat Pool and split leaving Joran alone.

Driving to the Monserat they will dump an other peace of the body.
Split and leave Joran behind.
The Monserat pool will leave him walking to McDonald.

This will give both Simian and Shango Validity for their writtings.

BRB..
CAPS

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Feb 26CAPS posted: Reply #2727 on: February 26, 2008, 09:29:40 AM
The pond in question (MOKO) is right out near the Whitehouse Apartment.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1952.2720


CAPS posted: Reply #2729 on: February 26, 2008, 10:36:09 AM
Look for Noord and look for Moko.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1952.2720

Find Aruba. Look for Noord. Look for Montaña. Look for Moko
CAPS posted:  Reply #7 on: April 15, 2008, 09:24:02 AM »
they where located in Moko and where in the massages bussines
now lets look at the addess to the Dutch Apartmnts

if we find this complex we have the murder place
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2787.0

CAPS posted:
one is called the Whitehouse or MOKO 30
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2787.0




Kermit's response...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Patriot on December 03, 2008, 05:35:50 PM
Another version comes to mind -

Me = Caps
J = Jacobs (Dennis)
W = Wever (Guido)
c's = Carlos N Charlie?  GVC's family?

Kalpoes related to Dompig.  Who is related to Jacobs and his family?  Anyone?

Could the Wever family (Guido) be related to Anita?



John Silvetti is the one that met with Caps.
J = John Silveti
C = Cylde Burke = he is the leak.

Listen this is a lot to take take in and digest. I don't have all the background or understanding but I stand with Kermit! He/She Never talks in code and backs up everything. JMO.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: klaasend on December 03, 2008, 05:37:13 PM
Sorry Dana - I probably shouldn't have said anything and I may have misread Red's email. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Dana on December 03, 2008, 05:38:42 PM
Sorry Dana - I probably shouldn't have said anything and I may have misread Red's email. 

the show is friday night at 9pm et
there are several guests that night,
more details to follow



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Dayhiker on December 03, 2008, 05:40:52 PM
Can someone please tell me the how you can criticize Greta for giving Joran free air time but not criticize anyone giving Tacopina free air time?

What is the F'in difference?

If you are going to criticize Greta for putting Joran's lies out there, what the hell is having Joe Tacopina on a show going to do?

Steve Cohen and now Joe Tacopina? What's next van der straaten is going to come on a tell us how hard they worked?

Unless Tacopina can explain who pays him and how since he has by his own words seen the police file, anyone other than his client is responsible for Natalee's disappearance.

I'm afraid Dana better be very prepared and I would suggest getting some legal help before "interviewing" Tacopina.

And why would Tacopina want any attention? Does he think he's going to change some people's minds about Joran?

Just when did Joran become "sick?" before or after he killed Natalee?

How about reading him the Aruba court's decision which clearly states Paulus is involved in her disappearance. I'm sure Janet has that quote.

I can't believe Dana is giving airtime to Tacopina.....I've heard enough of his lies to last the rest of my life. 
He is a paid liar who will say anything to deflect from Joran, Paulus, and the Aruban MOB.

Why should I listen to him for one second?  I won't spend the energy.

First Steve Cohen, architect of the cover up, now Tacopina, paid MOB mouthpiece.

Who's next..........Julia Renfroho or Reneeee?  No thanks.

I love Dana, but my stomach has had enough of this gang.  They all have zero credibility, and giving them a platform is a disservice to those guests who have credibility.

Who cares what Joe Tacopina thinks or says about anything?  Not me.

BLAH! PTOOEY! ::MonkeyNoNo::



I have to agree, nothing of interest will come of this interview. Joe hasn't changed his tune since day one except for finally admitting Joran is a sociopath. BFD. All he is going to say is that there is no evidence, same old song, umpteenth verse. It is hypocritical to call Greta out on interviewing Joran and then turning around and interviewing the creep's lawyer.

If Dana can get Joe to name, by their proper name, who is paying Joran's half a million plus dollars legal fees I will applaud him. Ain't gonna happen, attorney client protection, blah blah blah. I agree Frank, this is Cohen all over again.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Nut44x4 on December 03, 2008, 05:47:41 PM
I will agree with HellandBack on this. Waste of airtime. Sorry Dana. I think you are 'Tops', but just say No to Joe  ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Helen Back on December 03, 2008, 05:51:05 PM
I will agree with HellandBack on this. Waste of airtime. Sorry Dana. I think you are 'Tops', but just say No to Joe  ::MonkeyHaHa::

Just say NO TO JOE

I LOVE that.  ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: wreck on December 03, 2008, 05:54:59 PM
Joe's business card:

"We represent sociopaths to simpletons"

 ::MonkeyRoll::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: WhiskeyGirl on December 03, 2008, 06:01:28 PM
The only thing I see is maybe CAPS following the investigation and reporting the goings on at ScaredMonkeys.  I didn't follow Caps at the time as some of the stuff seemed farfetched.  CAPS changes also seem to echo what others like Kyle said about diversion.

Perhaps CAPS was being fed misinformation?  Since I believe that island communication is monitored, I would imagine that someone would have shut him down long ago if he were spewing Aruban secrets.

Since they haven't, I imagine that there must be a reason, an intentional purpose.  What?  Discredit the search for Natalee by Persistence?  Maybe.

What happened to others that used to post here?  Have they been silenced?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Dana on December 03, 2008, 06:17:50 PM
Can someone please tell me the how you can criticize Greta for giving Joran free air time but not criticize anyone giving Tacopina free air time?

What is the F'in difference?

If you are going to criticize Greta for putting Joran's lies out there, what the hell is having Joe Tacopina on a show going to do?

Steve Cohen and now Joe Tacopina? What's next van der straaten is going to come on a tell us how hard they worked?

Unless Tacopina can explain who pays him and how since he has by his own words seen the police file, anyone other than his client is responsible for Natalee's disappearance.

I'm afraid Dana better be very prepared and I would suggest getting some legal help before "interviewing" Tacopina.

And why would Tacopina want any attention? Does he think he's going to change some people's minds about Joran?

Just when did Joran become "sick?" before or after he killed Natalee?

How about reading him the Aruba court's decision which clearly states Paulus is involved in her disappearance. I'm sure Janet has that quote.

I can't believe Dana is giving airtime to Tacopina.....I've heard enough of his lies to last the rest of my life. 
He is a paid liar who will say anything to deflect from Joran, Paulus, and the Aruban MOB.

Why should I listen to him for one second?  I won't spend the energy.

First Steve Cohen, architect of the cover up, now Tacopina, paid MOB mouthpiece.

Who's next..........Julia Renfroho or Reneeee?  No thanks.

I love Dana, but my stomach has had enough of this gang.  They all have zero credibility, and giving them a platform is a disservice to those guests who have credibility.

Who cares what Joe Tacopina thinks or says about anything?  Not me.

BLAH! PTOOEY! ::MonkeyNoNo::



I have to agree, nothing of interest will come of this interview. Joe hasn't changed his tune since day one except for finally admitting Joran is a sociopath. BFD. All he is going to say is that there is no evidence, same old song, umpteenth verse. It is hypocritical to call Greta out on interviewing Joran and then turning around and interviewing the creep's lawyer.

If Dana can get Joe to name, by their proper name, who is paying Joran's half a million plus dollars legal fees I will applaud him. Ain't gonna happen, attorney client protection, blah blah blah. I agree Frank, this is Cohen all over again.


I find it strange that before I even announce who the guests will be or the topic on Fridays show Frank is predicting what type of interview he expects, and many of you go along with it .
I find that disapointing but never the less the Franks out there are never happy with any type of show.
Well Frank maybe you should offer to host the show go to Red and try and arrange something.
You have all the answers.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Magnolia on December 03, 2008, 06:25:12 PM
Joe's business card:

"We represent sociopaths to simpletons"

 ::MonkeyRoll::

Maybe Mr. & Mrs. Simpleton could be on the show with Joe.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Poochy on December 03, 2008, 06:35:45 PM
Poochy - Clyde Burke

Is this the same Clyde Burke who was in a band? If so, I just learned that Rueben Trappenberg's nic in 2005 was "Mighty Hippy" and there seems to be alot of those 'biting ants' on Aruba these days...

http://www.yadoneknow.com/antoni.htm

YDK:So how Taxx came about then?
Gario: Well the band taxx was there 2 years before already but with other guys in it! It was Errol de Freitas band. Some how along the way they asked me to join in the band. At first I was hesitant, but then I thought this could be a good idea. Then the band name was “Super formation Taxx” so I thought we can’t go on stage with such a chapo name?! So I changed it to “TaXX to the MaXX” by then Kevin James, Charles Hooker, Tony Mingo, Errol de Freitas, Clyde Burke, Jeffrey Brooks and myself all was in one band.

This was the San Nicolas bad boys, so at this time on paper this band looked unstoppable, but to put it in theory now was the task!So “Box down Satan” “Wild Indians” “Donkey” and “Hang loose” was born. By the time 96 rolled around we was ready to make a big bang around carnival time! Around this time calypso contest was in Palo Marga, so our slogan was “bun’tiya” squeeck (burn tire) a reference to burnouts done in drag racing! Well Taxx presented its product and could you believe that they disqualified us???? Saying that the song was too violent and we using Satan etc. Ironic enough Tony’s stage name at that time was Satan! Haha!
You could even hear the lyrics in the in song “Wild Indians” in the first couplet: “Well if you see them jumping up, with they feathers in the hand, like some wild Indians! By coastal gate the ruption start now police can’t keep us apart”
And it was like that in real life, back then had all those roughneck LTS San Nicolas boys, and it was hard on the police to stop them. So they generally made it hard for us to play on the road, they allowed us to play under strict supervision but we were prohibited to play box down Satan.

.........
YDK: So what happened there after, because Taxx separated and we haven’t heard from you again.
Gario: Well you know a good thing don’t always last for long.I had a disagreement with Milo Croes back then and to prove a point also I stayed away from the Carnival scene for a while. The rest of those boys went ahead and formed or renamed them self NBO. I concentrated my talents elsewhere. People started to come and ask me if I quit music, we missing real soca, we missing the “Gario touch” in Aruba carnival etc. I must say thanks for all those compliments.


Then followed the Triple Threat in 2002, NBO not only captured the Roadmarch title but went on to occupy the second and third place. The songs were;
1. Donkey, performed by Jeffrey “Hammer” Brooks
2. Changue, performed by Lord Papito
3. Bitin’ Ants, performed by Kevin “The Baron”
James


So here's the NBO band home page -

http://www.nboband.com/home/?page_id=7


In 2005 NBO did not give an inch, when Rueben “Mighty Hippie” Trappenberg decided to make his come back to the Calypso and Roadmarch contest and chose NBO to back him up.





Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Dana on December 03, 2008, 06:37:47 PM
Joe's business card:

"We represent sociopaths to simpletons"

 ::MonkeyRoll::

Maybe Mr. & Mrs. Simpleton could be on the show with Joe.

would you listen ?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Tamikosmom on December 03, 2008, 06:41:53 PM
DON'T MISS THURSDAY NIGHTS DANA PRETZER SHOW with GUEST JOE TACOPINA   ::MonkeyShocked:: 



Dana ... show your stuff!  Do not give this guy a free pass!  Ask the tough questions!  Keep reminding yourself that Joe Tacopina is the bad guy.

When I consider your words the other night when you went up one side of Greta and down the other ...  I have no doubt you can do it.

 ::MonkeyHaHa::


Janet

________


On the Record w/ Greta
New Developments in Natalee Holloway Case
Friday, February 01, 2008


JOE TACOPINA, JORAN VAN DER SLOOT'S ATTORNEY: ... What I will tell you is this. There is nothing that could come out of this episode on Sunday that's going to convince me, my investigators or anyone with intimate knowledge of this case that Joran had anything to do with Natalee's disappearance ...

VAN SUSTEREN: ... There's nothing privileged, what you say to him.

TACOPINA: ... No, I'm not going to go into my conversation with the client. What I will tell you is this. I walk out of that conversation and tell you that I'm as determined as ever to stand here and tell you that he had nothing to do with the disappearance.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,327625,00.html


NANCY GRACE
Remains of Young White Female Found in Reno Field; Natalee Holloway Case Update
Aired February 15, 2008 - 20:00:00   ET


JUG TWITTY, NATALEE HOLLOWAY`S STEPFATHER: Well, Holly, I`ll tell you, it`s very disappointing. But it doesn`t surprise me. I`ll tell you what really made me sick today to be honest with you is to see his U.S. attorney, Joe Tacopina, whoever, who has been kind of hiding for the last week because he didn`t know what was going to happen all of a sudden come on and he`s all over the TV now. And he is just saying, you know, with a smirk on his face, which just it makes me sick.

But, yes, hey I told you so, nothing was going to happen. When he knows Joran is a time bomb just waiting to -- you know, to blow up.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0802/15/ng.01.html


Beth Twitty
NANCY GRACE
August 11, 2006


TWITTY:  ...  I mean, the defense attorneys seemed to be running the show in Aruba last summer. So it doesn`t surprise us at all that he would prevail again here.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0608/11/ng.01.html


Beth Holloway
LOVING NATALEE
Page 183


... "The defense is running the show". They were as shocked as we were that the 3 will be released and said information was presented to the judge that showed ample reason to keep them in custody.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: klaasend on December 03, 2008, 06:43:10 PM
I shouldn't have opened my big mouth.  What's the matter with you guys?  I don't like JoeT any more than the rest but I find it very interresting he would even think about doing the Dana Pretzer radio show.  Why should he bother?  What does he have to gain?  I'm curious, so I will listen and I'm glad Dana was able to get him.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Magnolia on December 03, 2008, 06:43:23 PM
Joe's business card:

"We represent sociopaths to simpletons"

 ::MonkeyRoll::

Maybe Mr. & Mrs. Simpleton could be on the show with Joe.

Yes, I would.

would you listen ?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: always 1 on December 03, 2008, 06:46:00 PM
I shouldn't have opened my big mouth.  What's the matter with you guys?  I don't like JoeT any more than the rest but I find it very interresting he would even think about doing the Dana Pretzer radio show.  Why should he bother?  What does he have to gain?  I'm curious, so I will listen and I'm glad Dana was able to get him.


Me too, Go Dana!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Dana on December 03, 2008, 06:46:25 PM
Joe's business card:

"We represent sociopaths to simpletons"

 ::MonkeyRoll::

Maybe Mr. & Mrs. Simpleton could be on the show with Joe.

Yes, I would.

would you listen ?

well seeing i would be the host I guess I would


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: wreck on December 03, 2008, 06:46:49 PM
Joe's business card:

"We represent sociopaths to simpletons"

 ::MonkeyRoll::

Maybe Mr. & Mrs. Simpleton could be on the show with Joe.

would you listen ?
If you get "Mr. and Mrs. Simpleton" -- I would listen. "Mr. Sociopath" and his "mouthpiece" -- probably not.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: MuffyBee on December 03, 2008, 06:51:05 PM
I will be listening to Dana's show this Friday, whether Joe Tacopino is a guest on the show or not.   :thumleft:


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Magnolia on December 03, 2008, 06:51:27 PM
Joe's business card:

"We represent sociopaths to simpletons"

 ::MonkeyRoll::

Maybe Mr. & Mrs. Simpleton could be on the show with Joe.

Yes, I would.

would you listen ?

well seeing i would be the host I guess I would

I wasn't trying to be ugly....I just misposted..got my Yes on top of
your previous quedtion.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: trimmonthelake on December 03, 2008, 06:53:24 PM
I'll be listening.  ::MonkeyCool::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Dana on December 03, 2008, 07:07:12 PM
Joe's business card:

"We represent sociopaths to simpletons"

 ::MonkeyRoll::

Maybe Mr. & Mrs. Simpleton could be on the show with Joe.

would you listen ?
If you get "Mr. and Mrs. Simpleton" -- I would listen. "Mr. Sociopath" and his "mouthpiece" -- probably not.

that is your choice and i hope you stand by it


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: San on December 03, 2008, 07:09:11 PM
I shouldn't have opened my big mouth.  What's the matter with you guys?  I don't like JoeT any more than the rest but I find it very interresting he would even think about doing the Dana Pretzer radio show.  Why should he bother?  What does he have to gain?  I'm curious, so I will listen and I'm glad Dana was able to get him.

I hate JoeT but I will be listening.

Instead of people bashing who is on the show why don't they get their thoughts together and ask some questions.  Obviously he is going to talk about the recent  interview Joran did with Greta so what is the main thing Joran said in the interview that Dana could ask.  Joran finally implicated his father and the Kalpoes together.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: San on December 03, 2008, 07:11:59 PM
Joran's first interview with Greta was he left Natalee on the beach and nothing happened.

Joran's taped conversation with Patrick he said Natalee died in his arms and Daury disposed of her.

Joran's latest interview with Greta he sold Natalee.

Question for Joe:  Which one is it.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Dana on December 03, 2008, 07:12:13 PM
I shouldn't have opened my big mouth.  What's the matter with you guys?  I don't like JoeT any more than the rest but I find it very interresting he would even think about doing the Dana Pretzer radio show.  Why should he bother?  What does he have to gain?  I'm curious, so I will listen and I'm glad Dana was able to get him.

I hate JoeT but I will be listening.

Instead of people bashing who is on the show why don't they get their thoughts together and ask some questions.  Obviously he is going to talk about the recent  interview Joran did with Greta so what is the main thing Joran said in the interview that Dana could ask.  Joran finally implicated his father and the Kalpoes together.

actually the topic of the show friday will be announced soon, and it may not have anything to do with greta, or the recent interview.
and if joe is a guest i guarantee you he wont be the only guest, there are several planned for what i consider to be a special show that night


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: San on December 03, 2008, 07:13:30 PM
Joe's business card:

"We represent sociopaths to simpletons"

 ::MonkeyRoll::

Maybe Mr. & Mrs. Simpleton could be on the show with Joe.

Yes, I would.

would you listen ?

well seeing i would be the host I guess I would

I wasn't trying to be ugly....I just misposted..got my Yes on top of
your previous quedtion.

You are never ugly Magnolia and I knew you misposted.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Tamikosmom on December 03, 2008, 07:14:37 PM
I shouldn't have opened my big mouth.  What's the matter with you guys?  I don't like JoeT any more than the rest but I find it very interresting he would even think about doing the Dana Pretzer radio show.  Why should he bother?  What does he have to gain?  I'm curious, so I will listen and I'm glad Dana was able to get him.

I hate JoeT but I will be listening.

Instead of people bashing who is on the show why don't they get their thoughts together and ask some questions.  Obviously he is going to talk about the recent  interview Joran did with Greta so what is the main thing Joran said in the interview that Dana could ask.  Joran finally implicated his father and the Kalpoes together.



Dana ... has Joe Tacopina restricted your or your listeners' questions in any way? 

Thank you.

Janet


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: truthseeker2 on December 03, 2008, 07:15:06 PM
Dana,

Will you be doing any shows dealing with human trafficking in general?  That is a topic that does not get much attention, even if is discounted in Natalee's case.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Dayhiker on December 03, 2008, 07:17:11 PM


I have to agree, nothing of interest will come of this interview. Joe hasn't changed his tune since day one except for finally admitting Joran is a sociopath. BFD. All he is going to say is that there is no evidence, same old song, umpteenth verse. It is hypocritical to call Greta out on interviewing Joran and then turning around and interviewing the creep's lawyer.

If Dana can get Joe to name, by their proper name, who is paying Joran's half a million plus dollars legal fees I will applaud him. Ain't gonna happen, attorney client protection, blah blah blah. I agree Frank, this is Cohen all over again.


I find it strange that before I even announce who the guests will be or the topic on Fridays show Frank is predicting what type of interview he expects, and many of you go along with it .
I find that disapointing but never the less the Franks out there are never happy with any type of show.
Well Frank maybe you should offer to host the show go to Red and try and arrange something.
You have all the answers.



Dana, more power to you if you can get more out of him than anyone else has. The guy is a broken record, Arlene Ellis Schippers on steroids. "No evidence, no evidence, no evidence." That's all he ever says. I think the world of you Dana, and have enjoyed many of your shows. Good luck with Joe.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Dana on December 03, 2008, 07:22:06 PM
I shouldn't have opened my big mouth.  What's the matter with you guys?  I don't like JoeT any more than the rest but I find it very interresting he would even think about doing the Dana Pretzer radio show.  Why should he bother?  What does he have to gain?  I'm curious, so I will listen and I'm glad Dana was able to get him.

I hate JoeT but I will be listening.

Instead of people bashing who is on the show why don't they get their thoughts together and ask some questions.  Obviously he is going to talk about the recent  interview Joran did with Greta so what is the main thing Joran said in the interview that Dana could ask.  Joran finally implicated his father and the Kalpoes together.



Dana ... has Joe Tacopina restricted your or your listeners' questions in any way? 

Thank you.

Janet

 I havent confirmed he will be a guest yet, i decide what questions get asked and i try and stay on topic.
I dont want to be cryptic but if he is a guest the topic may not be about Joran only and I will say there are several lawyers planned for that night, and I will bet none of them will be popular. But it will be a interesting show I guarantee.

Most Monkeys are supportive, many are not and that is their right.
I will say I have received at least 100 emails today about this topic and many of them are actually quite sick.
Remember Red and Dugga will announce the show topic soon and who the guests will be.
It is your choice if you listen or not.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: San on December 03, 2008, 07:23:42 PM
GET WENDY MURPHY TO COME YOUR SHOW AND TAKE TACOPINA ON  ::cartwheel::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Dana on December 03, 2008, 07:25:58 PM
Dana,

Will you be doing any shows dealing with human trafficking in general?  That is a topic that does not get much attention, even if is discounted in Natalee's case.

I did several human trafficking shows long before Greta brought it forward.
here is an example of some

http://scaredmonkeysradio.com/2007/10/15/the-dana-pretzer-show-on-scared-monkeys-radio-listen-live-monday-october-15-at-9pm-eastern-guests-include-beth-holloway-twitty-and-ladonna-meredith/


http://scaredmonkeysradio.com/2007/09/27/the-dana-pretzer-show-on-scared-monkeys-radio-live-thursday-september-27-2007-at-9pm-eastern-guests-include-ladonna-meredith-and-edward-lozzi/


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Blue Moon on December 03, 2008, 07:26:35 PM
I shouldn't have opened my big mouth.  What's the matter with you guys?  I don't like JoeT any more than the rest but I find it very interresting he would even think about doing the Dana Pretzer radio show.  Why should he bother?  What does he have to gain?  I'm curious, so I will listen and I'm glad Dana was able to get him.



I have to agree with you.  Like with Joran it is always good to get Joe T. talking. Never know what might come from his mouth.  Dana, good move. I will listen.  Interested in how he spins all this one more time.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Tamikosmom on December 03, 2008, 07:39:08 PM
Food for thought regarding Joe Tacopina from the perspective of the only Aruban who has stood by a family from the getgo in their quest for a just investigation into the disappearance of their beloved Natalee.

I stand proudly with Jossy Mansur.

Janet

+++++++

Jossy Mansur … The Return of the Jedi … “Tacopina and his Criminal Client, Joran Van der Sloot

TACOPINA AND HIS CRIMINAL CLIENT! (FULL EDITORIAL)


I gave indications to the criminal defense lawyer in the U.S., Tacopina, that if he continues his campaign to offend, slander and defame, he is going to get the surprises of his life when the truth of his client’s participation in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway becomes known. And it is coming out at a much faster pace than I expected, thanks to DIARIO and lately De Vries, who’se popular program in Holland made revelations that had remained hidden and have now come out into the light. Tacopina at once wanted to belittle him with a string of lies about his program and, worse yet, about the man himself. A ’street style’ that will not prosper!

I don’t know who Tacopina thinks that he is, nor why he supposes that his personal attacks and his attempts to belittle others in a futile attempt to save his client, are going to produce some positive effect. Two nights ago, in the popular Lineup program on Fox, he went so far as to say that I am becoming senile, among other uncalled for comments. Well, well, well. I hope that when Tacopina reaches my age (if God favors him with that), he will be as senile as I am, because my faculties are intact, and my disposition to do battle also! I am not going to debate the personality of that idiot because my level of education will not permit it. But, I must bring to his attention that his terror tactics based on slander and defamation are not the adequate road an attorney must take to obtain his goal. For a person always threatening others with the courts for slander, he’s very loose with his expressions!
     
If his goal is to save his criminal client by painting him as an angel, he’s wasting his time. What his client did with the girl is indescribable! And I am not referring here to murder because the evidence to prove that hasn’t surfaced yet, but I am referring to the moral crime he committed and admitted to during interrogations by the investigative team. And to reaffirm that in order to dispel all possible doubts, I have the categoric declaration of the lead investigator in the case.      

That this revelation made Tacopina lose control is a fact that all who heard him on that program can testify to. He acted like a spoiled brat whose pacifier was yanked from his mouth. His voice was full of anger and despair, but with those emotional outbursts he is not going to change the reality of the case: his client, Joran van der Sloot, committed a moral crime against Natalee! This is categoric.
     
Now, my question to the people conducting this case is: how come Joran is in Holland, studying comfortably, while Natalee is no longer here? How come Joran has to “continue with his life”, when Natalee’s life came to such a premature and unjust end? How come the authorities did not produce the expected results in a case that is not difficult to solve in the sense that there is a moral crime admitted to? Why was it necessary for new revelations to come from Holland in order to make the case again as hot as an iron?

Three persons damaged the name of Aruba internationally, and to top it all, all three of them happen to be all three happen to be foreigners. Not one of them is an Aruban! They threw a negative light on our with their uncontrolled action during one night in May. One of them is the criminal client of Tacopina! No matter what Tacopina says, his client will not escape the long arm of the Law, because he himself admitted , and described in detail, his moral crime. I don’t understand why, in spite of this admission, Joran and his cronies are free to walk around as if they haven’t broken one single cup. And there are two of them who are even thinking of going to court in the U.S. for money! What do they want, a reward for what they did? A payment for having so badly damaged the name of Aruba?
   
Tacopina assured that the case will never come to court. Well, Tacopina must be as bad in practicing chiromancy as he is removed from the truth as a lawyer in this case. The case will and must be brought to Court to put an end to this sordid affair, so that we can begin to reinstate the good name of our island, and principally to give the Holloways some measure of peace after all they have suffered with the disappearance of their daughter who came to Aruba and disappeared while in the company of the three suspects.
     
The three of them own the answer that all of us who in good faith are lending a hand for justice to prevail, are searching for and will find, much to the frustration of Tacopina! Let him continue to live out his ‘delirium tremens’, while we continue to pursue the case and are going to prove how deeply involved his client is with what happened to the girl who had her whole life before her, and disappeared while in Aruba and in the company of the three foreign suspects. (Hat Tip: Diario)

December 5, 2006

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2006/12/05/jossy-mansur-the-return-of-the-jedi-tacopina-and-his-criminal-clinet-joran-van-der-sloot/


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: vms on December 03, 2008, 07:41:00 PM
December 3rd, 2008 6:12 PM Eastern
Joran ? We know where he is
by Greta Van Susteren


Check out this email I received to our Fox News ON THE RECORD show account (I edited it to keep the emailer’s identify confidential.) This is the second email I have received in 2 days about Joran’s location.  (Scroll back to yesterday.) It is fascinating that so many people are watching him…

From:
Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 12:26 PM
To:
Subject: I saw Joran Vandersloot minutes ago

Greta–

Joran is staying on the 11th floor of a hotel near the……..He has been playing poker on the 3rd floor of the poker room for most of the past 48 hrs. He has some new facial hair. He slipped out when I said ‘ Hello Joran’…..seems noone else has any idea who he is.

2 guys from Guam also there–just met– are intending to go drinking with him tonite–I just filled them in on who he was, and they have my cell, promising to let me know if they get the exact detail of where he is staying. He told them he is here cuz he had some troubles in Holland, and has been waiting for the Bangkok airport to reopen, so he can go there, likely tomorrow. My cell …..

Will write you if i hear any further details.

ps. ..   I offer this info anonymously w/ no interest in participating in any publicity nor reward programs. Am happy you are doing what you are, as i know he did it, and her family deserves any closure they can find….

http://gretawire.foxnews.com/2008/12/03/joran-we-know-where-he-is/


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Keepthefaith on December 03, 2008, 07:44:59 PM
December 3rd, 2008 6:12 PM Eastern
Joran ? We know where he is
by Greta Van Susteren


Check out this email I received to our Fox News ON THE RECORD show account (I edited it to keep the emailer’s identify confidential.) This is the second email I have received in 2 days about Joran’s location.  (Scroll back to yesterday.) It is fascinating that so many people are watching him…

From:
Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 12:26 PM
To:
Subject: I saw Joran Vandersloot minutes ago

Greta–

Joran is staying on the 11th floor of a hotel near the……..He has been playing poker on the 3rd floor of the poker room for most of the past 48 hrs. He has some new facial hair. He slipped out when I said ‘ Hello Joran’…..seems noone else has any idea who he is.

2 guys from Guam also there–just met– are intending to go drinking with him tonite–I just filled them in on who he was, and they have my cell, promising to let me know if they get the exact detail of where he is staying. He told them he is here cuz he had some troubles in Holland, and has been waiting for the Bangkok airport to reopen, so he can go there, likely tomorrow. My cell …..

Will write you if i hear any further details.

ps. ..   I offer this info anonymously w/ no interest in participating in any publicity nor reward programs. Am happy you are doing what you are, as i know he did it, and her family deserves any closure they can find….

http://gretawire.foxnews.com/2008/12/03/joran-we-know-where-he-is/

You can run but you can't hide...... ::MonkeyDance:: ::cartwheel:: ::MonkeyDance::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Frijole on December 03, 2008, 08:06:46 PM
Remember the Where's Waldo cartoon?  Well this is where's Joran.. bet Klaas could do a pretty graphic on that one. ha.

I think it is fantastic that people around the world are listening to Greta and ratting out Joran.  This may be a more stressful, painful demise than sitting on his butt in KIA playing cards all day in Aruba.  Maybe in a strange way we are seeing justice play out... well sort of.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Blonde on December 03, 2008, 08:08:26 PM
Whiskey Girl,

IIRC, one side of the trap was open, namely the side where there is a door...I believe I read that the door was pushed in or out....just do not recall at the moment where I read it.  Just thinking about one of your questions in blue on the previous page.
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/persistence/trap4.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Magnolia on December 03, 2008, 08:16:04 PM
I am really curious about the "Monkey's Uncle" who is
a lawyer.  I wonder which lawyer and which side of the
fence he is on.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: wreck on December 03, 2008, 08:18:08 PM
Joe's business card:

"We represent sociopaths to simpletons"

 ::MonkeyRoll::

Maybe Mr. & Mrs. Simpleton could be on the show with Joe.

would you listen ?
If you get "Mr. and Mrs. Simpleton" -- I would listen. "Mr. Sociopath" and his "mouthpiece" -- probably not.

that is your choice and i hope you stand by it
I'm sorry that you are getting defensive about this, but that is just how I feel. Red has been begging Tacopina to debate him on record for over 2 years. Anything short of THAT is only giving Joe more unwarranted publicity. Arrange a meaningful debate with he and Red -- and I will be there with bells on. I DO admire your work, Dana -- I just think THIS interview is misguided. JMO


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Blonde on December 03, 2008, 08:19:34 PM
Copied their posts over to this thread. Time to make sense of it all.

Monkeys Uncle?
Monkey?



And Caps initials post that goes with the Monkey and Monkey's Uncle.
"Me..J...W...and c's"
Me= Caps
J= John Silvetti
W= Witness
c= Clyde Burke

I think that is right...please correct if wrong.

C=Clyde Burke...Does "c's"=Cops?  Just wondering?

Which would be Caps' Uncle then?

Me = Caps
J = Jacobs (Dennis)
W = Werner (headmaster?)
c's = Carlos N Charlie?  GVC's family?

Kalpoes related to Dompig.  Who is related to Jacobs and his family?  Anyone?

C&C, what other kinds of security tape did they have?  Joran reports the following in the first GVS interview -


Quote
VAN DER SLOOT: I can't say exactly when. I don't know exactly when. The only thing I can say for sure is when I was home because that's — you know you said it yourself to me that the most important thing is to look at facts and, you know, those are facts that you can actually say what time you got home, by video footage what time you left Carlos 'n Charlie's. Those are things you can actually, you know, actually really prove.

VAN SUSTEREN: All right, well let me jump ahead. What time did you get home so we have this time frame?

VAN DER SLOOT: It was 3:35 I think or 3:25 and we had — I had ABC look at the pieces there. Well, they had the pieces too so that's one thing I can be sure of.

How would ABC know this?

What does the video witness say?  Who controls this witness on Aruba?


Could a cop also mean a security person?

{{edit}} to fix

This site in always wrong but one in a blue moon it  could be right.

Dennis Jacobs is the Aruba Dirty Police. As unpleasant as a task as it may .... is related to Yolanda Weber, Director of Mementomori Funeral Home in Aruba? ..
.

http://judicial-inc.biz/J_oran_va_der_sloot_supplement.htm


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: SS on December 03, 2008, 08:22:20 PM
I am really curious about the "Monkey's Uncle" who is
a lawyer.  I wonder which lawyer and which side of the
fence he is on.



Mags - once again, you've taken the words right out of my mouth.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: AZSunny on December 03, 2008, 08:29:54 PM
I shouldn't have opened my big mouth.  What's the matter with you guys?  I don't like JoeT any more than the rest but I find it very interresting he would even think about doing the Dana Pretzer radio show.  Why should he bother?  What does he have to gain?  I'm curious, so I will listen and I'm glad Dana was able to get him.

I hate JoeT but I will be listening.

Instead of people bashing who is on the show why don't they get their thoughts together and ask some questions.  Obviously he is going to talk about the recent  interview Joran did with Greta so what is the main thing Joran said in the interview that Dana could ask.  Joran finally implicated his father and the Kalpoes together.

Is this going to be another show slamming Greta??  No thank you Dana


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Keepthefaith on December 03, 2008, 08:31:20 PM
I am really curious about the "Monkey's Uncle" who is
a lawyer.  I wonder which lawyer and which side of the
fence he is on.



Mags - once again, you've taken the words right out of my mouth.

Did you get a chance to read Caps post,as well as Kermits response??


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Magnolia on December 03, 2008, 08:44:47 PM
I am guessing that the lawyer must be on the prosecution side
or he wouldn't be on the call roll.

Kermit has been saying for a long time that we should
stay focused and not be diverted by the witness.

Why would anyone want to divert attention away from
the trap and the "human remains" found there?
One of those diverting is Caps, one is John Silvetti and one
is Clyde Burke, of ALE.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Tamikosmom on December 03, 2008, 08:45:42 PM
Greta does not give Joe Tacopina a free pass ... she challenges his every word throught the interview.  Dana ... please do likewise.  This guy is still claiming he believes that Joran and Paulus van der Sloot played no part in the obstruction of justice that permeates the Natalee Holloway case.

Thank you.

Janet

++++++++++


Fallout From Joran van der Sloot's 'On the Record' Interview
Wednesday, November 26, 2008


VAN SUSTEREN: Joran van der Sloot's lawyer, Joe Tacopina, joins us live. Joe, am I right, you still do represent Joran?

JOE TACOPINA, ATTORNEY FOR JORAN VAN DER SLOOT: I represent him, Greta, for the purpose of the Aruba investigation, which for all intents and purposes is over.

Quite frankly, when you asked me to come on last week or a few weeks ago, I hadn't seen this tape. Had I seen this first, I probably would have declined your invitation, Greta, because I just - we could do this - and look, obviously you paid him some money to either give him a tape recording or have him give you tapes or to submit to an interview.

VAN SUSTEREN: Stop there. Let me explain something.

TACOPINA: Please.

VAN SUSTEREN: Just so you get it right. He contacted us. He said he had a tape.

TACOPINA: Yes.

VAN SUSTEREN: I said we couldn't buy it, but we could license it. That's what the media does. You license photos, you license recordings, you license tape.

He gave us the tape. We've had it sent to someone to have it checked out if there were problems with it. I went to Thailand to find out what the story was on the tape to fill in the blanks to corroborate it.

TACOPINA: OK. So whatever I have - I mean, an email from one of your producers, Steph Watts, you know, to Joran, talking about the Western Union transaction. Greta, look --

VAN SUSTEREN: That is how the money is transferred. There's no secret. There's no secret.

TACOPINA: You paid him for a tape that he made and wound up getting an hour interview with him. And so be it, Greta. Great TV, great ratings- -

VAN SUSTEREN: Do you have a problem with that?

TACOPINA: Yes, I do have a problem with it, Greta, because if you offered Joran $10,000 tomorrow and ask him to tell you a fifth story, he would do it.

Clearly, he's a sick kid. Clearly, I have nothing to say in defense of his actions, Greta. OK?

VAN SUSTEREN: Do you deny...?

TACOPINA: But I still tell you, and I stand by the notion that the investigation regarding the disappearance of Natalee Holloway has not led to Joran. That's the bottom line.

No one expects anyone to believe anything this kid has to say anymore. Quite frankly, he's on the verge of sociopath and despicable, but--

VAN SUSTEREN: Explain something to me, Joe.

TACOPINA: Please.

VAN SUSTEREN: According to the timeline --I'm trying to figure this out, because I really want this investigated. That's why we're bringing this information in.

TACOPINA: Really?

VAN SUSTEREN: Now stop. There's has been resistance from Aruba. There has been resistance from you, which, of course, that's your job as the lawyer. I understand that and I have an appreciation for a defense lawyer.

TACOPINA: I know you do.

VAN SUSTEREN: But when he comes to us and says look, I have my father on tape saying about the human trafficking, this explains what happened. I'd like to find her alive is what he told us.

Of course, I didn't believe that it was true, that she could possibly be alive. But he said that he sold her.

So I said "What do you have?" And he came to us. We didn't go after him.

TACOPINA: Greta, that's fine. But look at the source. He's told so many different versions.

VAN SUSTEREN: All right, but what about his father in - what - how do you justify what his father said on this tape? Is his father also telling us different versions?

TACOPINA: Oh, that tape--

VAN SUSTEREN: Skip Joran. What -- Is the tape made up?

TACOPINA: I spoke to Paulus last night as this was going on. I mean, talk about a guy-- you don't know Paulus. I do. Paulus is a simpleton.

VAN SUSTEREN: Is this tape made up? Is this tape just crazy?

TACOPINA: He absolutely denies ever having that conversation, ever. So yes, I believe that tape's false.

Think about it for a second--

(CROSSTALK)

VAN SUSTEREN: So we can do a comparison, so we can check it out? I'm willing to check it out.

TACOPINA: Listen, Greta, Greta, just hold on a second. Think about the logic of this. Joran calls you and tape-recorded an incriminating conversation with his father. Why? For what purpose? So he could sell it to you? I mean, why would he have an incriminating tape recording of himself and his father?

VAN SUSTEREN: All I'm trying to do, Joe, all I want to do, Joe, is try to find out - stop.

(CROSSTALK)

TACOPINA: If that's the case, why in July did you have this interview, and why hasn't it not been turned over - why didn't you just send it to the authorities? How about the FBI? Did they get a copy of this?

VAN SUSTEREN: Because if you want to know the practical matter, no sooner than we had it done, we needed to corroborate it to make sure it wasn't lies, because he named a lot of people. In fact, if you notice, we bleeped out some names as we're trying to investigate.

Then we went into what you may have noticed was a presidential election. So we've been busy doing that.

TACOPINA: Oh, but you don't have to do this investigation, Greta. Give the tape to the FBI. They're not involved in the presidential election.

VAN SUSTEREN: The FBI has no jurisdiction, for god's sakes. You know that.

TACOPINA: Oh, they can't investigate? You know they investigated this case!

VAN SUSTEREN: Joe, let me find out one thing--if this is a made-up tape, give me a voice sampling from Paulus van der Sloot so that I can do a voice comparison analysis. There is a forensic way to do that. Get that for me, and if this turns out to be a lie, I'll say this tape is a lie.

TACOPINA: FOX News does not - as much as I respect you and this network, FOX News is not the end-all, be-all for investigative services. There is a law enforcement agency involved. So you don't just say, give you the power of attorney. Or give you a voice sample.

VAN SUSTEREN: If you're saying this tape is a fraud, I'm willing to investigate it, and I'm willing to say if it is a fraud, I'll say on the air we did this analysis of Paulus Van Der Sloot's voice to the tape, and it's wrong. I'm willing to do that. But if you come on and tell me it's not true, at least give me the ability to prove or disprove it.

TACOPINA: Let me just say this, let me say this -- I'm not saying it's true or not. I'm telling you what Paulus said. I wasn't there. I wasn't a witness to any of this.

VAN SUSTEREN: Call Paulus up right now and we'll go into the green room and say, Paulus, give them a voice sample, if this is a fraud.

TACOPINA: Greta, why was this tape not sent to the authorities, then? Why hold it until like November if you did this in July if you really think - because you said on the interview last night, you said to Joran when you were trying to get him to speak, you said what if she's still alive, Joran? I still think there is a chance Natalee could still be alive. Time is of the essence. Why? Because of the elections?

VAN SUSTEREN: Joe, because you know what, unlike you and the others, I've been spending my weekends actually working on this case. Do not criticize me for not working it. It's 2008.

TACOPINA: Don't be defensive, please, Greta. I'm not criticizing you for working. But send the tape to an authority. Send the tape to an authority. That's all I'm saying. I'm not saying you're not working on it.

VAN SUSTEREN: If they're willing to use their police powers, subpoena power to subpoena a voice exemplar from Joran van der Sloot, and our FBI doesn't have the authority, but the Aruban prosecutor does, he's got it. He can have it.

TACOPINA: So you have conditions on giving over possibly incriminating evidence?

VAN SUSTEREN: No.

TACOPINA: You have the tape, send them the tape right now.

VAN SUSTEREN: Do something, not sit on it. Not to just sit on it.

TACOPINA: I have no control over that, Greta. You know that. Ok? You know I have no control over it.

VAN SUSTEREN: You do have control over getting a voice sample from your client. Get it and you and I can both go to the forensic expert together. I'll go with you.

TACOPINA: Greta, I know for a fact, because you said it many times, "That doesn't make sense, Joran." That doesn't make sense. You don't believe a word he was saying on that interview last night, do you?

VAN SUSTEREN: You're dodging. You're dodging. Get me the voice sample.

(CROSSTALK)

TACOPINA: Listen, it's not my voice, OK!

VAN SUSTEREN: Get me the voice sample and you ... Joe, I got to go.

TACOPINA: Greta, send the tape to the investigators and I'll give you a voice sample. How about that?

VAN SUSTEREN: Right. They're real busy investigating. Joe, thank you.

TACOPINA: Bye.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,457715,00.html



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: COLOMBO on December 03, 2008, 08:47:45 PM
December 3rd, 2008 6:12 PM Eastern
Joran ? We know where he is
by Greta Van Susteren


Check out this email I received to our Fox News ON THE RECORD show account (I edited it to keep the emailer’s identify confidential.) This is the second email I have received in 2 days about Joran’s location.  (Scroll back to yesterday.) It is fascinating that so many people are watching him…

From:
Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 12:26 PM
To:
Subject: I saw Joran Vandersloot minutes ago

Greta–

Joran is staying on the 11th floor of a hotel near the……..He has been playing poker on the 3rd floor of the poker room for most of the past 48 hrs. He has some new facial hair. He slipped out when I said ‘ Hello Joran’…..seems noone else has any idea who he is.

2 guys from Guam also there–just met– are intending to go drinking with him tonite–I just filled them in on who he was, and they have my cell, promising to let me know if they get the exact detail of where he is staying. He told them he is here cuz he had some troubles in Holland, and has been waiting for the Bangkok airport to reopen, so he can go there, likely tomorrow. My cell …..

Will write you if i hear any further details.

ps. ..   I offer this info anonymously w/ no interest in participating in any publicity nor reward programs. Am happy you are doing what you are, as i know he did it, and her family deserves any closure they can find….

http://gretawire.foxnews.com/2008/12/03/joran-we-know-where-he-is/

You can run but you can't hide...... ::MonkeyDance:: ::cartwheel:: ::MonkeyDance::


compensation no doubt.....a line?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: SS on December 03, 2008, 08:50:34 PM
I am really curious about the "Monkey's Uncle" who is
a lawyer.  I wonder which lawyer and which side of the
fence he is on.



Mags - once again, you've taken the words right out of my mouth.

Did you get a chance to read Caps post,as well as Kermits response??




KTF - I did read both of their posts and I do recall many of the conversations that Kermit has reposted.  Caps worked with us in Shango for a long time.  I have always been a big Caps supporter.  I hope that I won't need to eat another crow.  I already ate one last week for getting angry with Janet many months ago about Kyle.  I would like to know who the uncle is.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Keepthefaith on December 03, 2008, 08:51:40 PM
I am guessing that the lawyer must be on the prosecution side
or he wouldn't be on the call roll.

Kermit has been saying for a long time that we should
stay focused and not be diverted by the witness.

Why would anyone want to divert attention away from
the trap and the "human remains" found there?
One of those diverting is Caps, one is John Silvetti and one
is Clyde Burke, of ALE.

It is very interesting!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Keepthefaith on December 03, 2008, 08:53:05 PM
I am really curious about the "Monkey's Uncle" who is
a lawyer.  I wonder which lawyer and which side of the
fence he is on.



Mags - once again, you've taken the words right out of my mouth.

Did you get a chance to read Caps post,as well as Kermits response??




KTF - I did read both of their posts and I do recall many of the conversations that Kermit has reposted.  Caps worked with us in Shango for a long time.  I have always been a big Caps supporter.  I hope that I won't need to eat another crow.  I already ate one last week for getting angry with Janet many months ago about Kyle.  I would like to know who the uncle is.

As i don't know all it is very confusing from time to time but i continue to try and error on the side of logic when possible.. ::MonkeyConfused::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Tamikosmom on December 03, 2008, 08:59:16 PM
I shouldn't have opened my big mouth.  What's the matter with you guys?  I don't like JoeT any more than the rest but I find it very interresting he would even think about doing the Dana Pretzer radio show.  Why should he bother?  What does he have to gain?  I'm curious, so I will listen and I'm glad Dana was able to get him.

I hate JoeT but I will be listening.

Instead of people bashing who is on the show why don't they get their thoughts together and ask some questions.  Obviously he is going to talk about the recent  interview Joran did with Greta so what is the main thing Joran said in the interview that Dana could ask.  Joran finally implicated his father and the Kalpoes together.

Is this going to be another show slamming Greta??  No thank you Dana

I hope not AZSunny.

Dana and Greta are the good guys.  They are on the side of justice for Natalee Holloway.  They are the ones who recognize that a corrupt investigation has protected Joran and Paulus van der Sloot from implication and ... prevented justice from prevailing for Natalee Holloway.

Steve Cohen and Joe Tacopina are the bad guys.  Cohen has abetted Aruba in furthering the coverup as a paid ATA and AHACA spokesperson for the investigation while Tacopina ... as Joran's paid attorney ... has shielded his clients from the consequences of his actions encompassing the morning of May 30, 2005.  Both of these guys have contributed in their own way to the H--- on Earth that Natalee's family has had to endure for over 3 1/2 years.

Janet


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Kermit on December 03, 2008, 09:07:04 PM
I shouldn't have opened my big mouth.  What's the matter with you guys?  I don't like JoeT any more than the rest but I find it very interresting he would even think about doing the Dana Pretzer radio show.  Why should he bother?  What does he have to gain?  I'm curious, so I will listen and I'm glad Dana was able to get him.

I hate JoeT but I will be listening.

Instead of people bashing who is on the show why don't they get their thoughts together and ask some questions.  Obviously he is going to talk about the recent  interview Joran did with Greta so what is the main thing Joran said in the interview that Dana could ask.  Joran finally implicated his father and the Kalpoes together.

actually the topic of the show friday will be announced soon, and it may not have anything to do with greta, or the recent interview.
and if joe is a guest i guarantee you he wont be the only guest, there are several planned for what i consider to be a special show that night


MOB ATTORNEY DEFENDING JORAN:

Joe Tacopina
After he graduated from the University of Bridgeport School of Law in 1991, Tacopina gained his first trial experience as the second chair on the John Gotti defense team during the mob boss’s 1992 trial. He was only twenty-five years old.
http://www.skidmore.edu/scope/winter2003/features/powerplays.html

And he knew that a courtroom was where he wanted to be. He promptly got a summer job in New York City, working for the lawyer representing Paul Castellano, the reputed Gambino crime-family boss who was later gunned down outside Sparks Steak House.
http://www.skidmore.edu/scope/winter2003/features/powerplays.html

Reputed Gambino crime associate Richard Juliano makes a living selling adult toys like leather handcuffs, ball gags and bondage ropes from his Staten Island sex emporium.

But it's a court-ordered ankle bracelet he wears under terms of his house arrest that is hurting business.

According to a letter his lawyer sent to Brooklyn Federal Court Judge Raymond Dearie, Juliano wants the bracelet removed so he can deal with pilferage showing in the inventory at his Nitecap Entertainment shop on Gulf Ave.

The letter doesn't say what's missing from the store, which peddles, among other naughty items, "pleasure swings," "breakaway thongs" and "Vagina is For Lovers" T-shirts, but the letter says he can't look into the problem as long as he's confined to his house.

"It would seem that someone has been stealing from Mr. Juliano in his absence. To address this issue, Mr. Juliano needs to make his presence felt by appearing at his establishment on a steady basis," lawyer Joseph Tacopina wrote.

Juliano, 32, who graduated from St. John's University with a business degree, operates the kinky retail outlet with his retired-cop brother-in-law.

He is charged in racketeering conspiracy with collecting an unpaid gambling debt. He was on supervised release for a previous illegal gambling conviction at the time of the alleged crime.

The judge has permitted Juliano to go to his orthodontist, get a colonoscopy and attend a benefit for fallen firefighter Joey Graffagnino, killed in the Deutsche Bank building blaze. That shows he can be trusted, Tacopina argues.

Of course, it was Tacopina who told another federal judge at Juliano's sentencing in 2005 that he would "not engage in criminal conduct again."

Just in case Juliano needs one, his store sells a striped prisoner's costume for $30.29.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_crime/2007/10/28/2007-10-28_king_of_kink_spring_me_to_watch_my_biz_s.html

Four members of the gambino clan

They condemn here to gangster by bets
• Procesaban bets through Pelican Sports

Giannina Segnini
gsegnini@nacion.com
Editor of the Nation

In an historical judgment against the "family" gangster Gambino, of New York, four members of that clan were condemned yesterday in a court of Brooklyn to process illegal bets through a company/signature in Costa Rica.
Andrew Genser, public prosecutor whom it persecuted to the gangster ones, it confirmed to the Nation the sentence and said that the bets were placed through the company Pelican Sports, that operates in the country.
Genser explained that the condemned is Anthony Ciccone, Jerome Brancato, Richard Bondi and Primo Cassarino.

Joseph Tacopina, lawyer of Jerome Brancato

http://www.majorwager.com/forums/mess-hall/116610-nacion-article-they-condemn-here-gangster-bets.html
 

MAFIA ATTORNEY - JOE TACOPINA:
The prosecutors say they will prove that Mr. Brancato took regular cash payments to Mr. Gotti from all the illegal activities
<snip>
Mr. Brancato's lawyer, Joseph Tacopina
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9807EFDF1031F936A25752C0A9659C8B63
_______________________________________
Joe Tacopina, whose client list includes the late John Gotti, and Joseph “Joey Green Eyes” Anemone.
http://www.lostnation.tv/html/bernie_kerik.html
__________________________________
Joseph Tacopina, Law ’91 of Westport, a leading New York defense lawyer who has represented clients ranging from John Gotti to Bernard Kerik to Joran Van der Sloot in Aruba;
http://www.bridgeport.edu/pages/3218.asp?item=2764

"He's the lone defendant because he's a gambler charged with a crime he did not commit," said Paloscio's lawyer Joseph Tacopina, hinting he would concede his client's involvement in illegal gambling at trial.
http://www.ganglandnews.com/column264.htm



1991 Paulus went to Aruba and was appointed for 4 yrs as a lawyer for the Aruba gov't
1991 - Joe Tacopina graduated from University of Bridgeport School of Law
1992 - Joe Tacopina was 2nd chair for John gotti defense team.

"The police are looking into Paulus van der Sloot's finances and whether he might be connected to mobsters that may have ties to Aruba's casino business," said the source. "Paulus is a known high-stakes poker player."


http://www.nationalenquirer.com/crime/63316




Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Magnolia on December 03, 2008, 09:19:15 PM
So Kermit, did Posner arrange for Tacopina to represent
Joran or did Paulus himself have enough pull to arrange it?

And....who is the lawyer uncle?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on December 03, 2008, 09:22:59 PM
I am guessing that the lawyer must be on the prosecution side
or he wouldn't be on the call roll.

Kermit has been saying for a long time that we should
stay focused and not be diverted by the witness.

Why would anyone want to divert attention away from
the trap and the "human remains" found there?
One of those diverting is Caps, one is John Silvetti and one
is Clyde Burke, of ALE.

These are just a couple I found for criminal law....not sure about working for prosecution...as you will note.

Croes Wever Tchong Oranjestad, Aruba
Arulex Building
Punta Brabo
Phone: 297 5822138


David Kock & Wix Oranjestad, Aruba
Emanstraat 58
Phone: +297-5823505

http://www.hg.org/law-firms/Criminal-Law/Aruba/Oranjestad.html

Still not sure Kermit confirmed W = Witness


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: SS on December 03, 2008, 09:24:59 PM
From Dana:

I havent confirmed he will be a guest yet, i decide what questions get asked and i try and stay on topic.
I dont want to be cryptic but if he is a guest the topic may not be about Joran only and I will say there are several lawyers planned for that night, and I will bet none of them will be popular. But it will be a interesting show I guarantee.

Most Monkeys are supportive, many are not and that is their right.
I will say I have received at least 100 emails today about this topic and many of them are actually quite sick.
Remember Red and Dugga will announce the show topic soon and who the guests will be.
It is your choice if you listen or not.


**************************

Dana - I think that you should bring these despicable people to your show.  Every time that they are interviewed, they somehow say something really stupid or they reveal some level of information.  Just last week, Taco Joe stated the Urine has a personality disorder and Paulass is a simpleton.  These statements have to be causing some level of discord among the enemy.  Divide and conquer!  I'd love to see them all at each other's throats.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Magnolia on December 03, 2008, 09:35:36 PM
I am guessing that the lawyer must be on the prosecution side
or he wouldn't be on the call roll.

Kermit has been saying for a long time that we should
stay focused and not be diverted by the witness.

Why would anyone want to divert attention away from
the trap and the "human remains" found there?
One of those diverting is Caps, one is John Silvetti and one
is Clyde Burke, of ALE.

These are just a couple I found for criminal law....not sure about working for prosecution...as you will note.

Croes Wever Tchong Oranjestad, Aruba
Arulex Building
Punta Brabo
Phone: 297 5822138


David Kock & Wix Oranjestad, Aruba
Emanstraat 58
Phone: +297-5823505

http://www.hg.org/law-firms/Criminal-Law/Aruba/Oranjestad.html

Still not sure Kermit confirmed W = Witness


The first one was my guess.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on December 03, 2008, 09:39:48 PM
I do take real pleasure in Joran being so well monitored, as the Greta poster exhibits. I remember Beth saying that his Hell is just beginning after she saw the DeVries video, and she was right. He's not in jail, or on death row where he should be, but his life really has changed because of what he did to Natalee.

As controlling as Urine is, life is harder under the current circumstances than it would be for most. It's not justice, but at one point I really thought it possible that his Dad, Aruban LE, and others were going to win out. Regardless of whatever else, that has not happened. The toll for Aruba isn't over either. Not by a long shot!

I think that we Monkeys have a little something to do with that, and it's not over til we say it's over!

(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c100/crazybabyborgs/NoTour.gif)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Helen Back on December 03, 2008, 09:42:05 PM
Hi monkeys,

Hi Dana,

It looks like we've had a lot of debate about Joe T. as a prospective guest on Dana's show.  I'm a BIG Dana fan, and tune in whenever I can. 

However, when I disagree, I will say so.  I've been known to slam Greta when she was "inclined" to believe Joran, and when she was uninformed.  That's what we do here isn't it? Say what we think and feel about issues?

I used to listen to Joe T. in the beginning, for about a minute.  At warp speed it was clear that he repeats the same nonsensical mantra, "Look, there's no evidence".  When challenged, he shouts his mantra louder and louder until he becomes shrill.  I haven't seen anything different from him over the years.  No matter what show he is on, when he begins with same tired BS, I MUTE JOE.  I've heard it all before.  YAWN.  He's just ridiculous.

Don't even get me started on the famed forensic scientist he dragged out for his trip to Aruba.  What a joke that was.  Joe's a MOB LAWYER with no credibility.  But it's your show and you can have whoever you want  as a guest.  As well,  I can decide that your guest is not worthy or deserving of my time and attention. 

Whenever I have conversation with mobsters and criminals, they hardly ever tell me the truth, so...... ::MonkeyHaHa::

When you announce your guests, and if I can tune in to your show, I probably will.  The second Joe T. starts with the same old song, I will do what I always do............MUTE.......I will skip it.
 ::MonkeyCool::










Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Magnolia on December 03, 2008, 09:42:22 PM
Do ya'll reckon that Schaefer and Silvetti might be doing
a little offshore banking to hide some funds from that
SEC investigation?  That is a specialty of Croes and Tchong.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: WhiskeyGirl on December 03, 2008, 09:45:48 PM
From Dana:

I havent confirmed he will be a guest yet, i decide what questions get asked and i try and stay on topic.
I dont want to be cryptic but if he is a guest the topic may not be about Joran only and I will say there are several lawyers planned for that night, and I will bet none of them will be popular. But it will be a interesting show I guarantee.

Most Monkeys are supportive, many are not and that is their right.
I will say I have received at least 100 emails today about this topic and many of them are actually quite sick.
Remember Red and Dugga will announce the show topic soon and who the guests will be.
It is your choice if you listen or not.


**************************

Dana - I think that you should bring these despicable people to your show.  Every time that they are interviewed, they somehow say something really stupid or they reveal some level of information.  Just last week, Taco Joe stated the Urine has a personality disorder and Paulass is a simpleton.  These statements have to be causing some level of discord among the enemy.  Divide and conquer!  I'd love to see them all at each other's throats.

I think Joe T. would make an interesting guest.  Almost sad that there is no video...I think of the early appearances...

PVDS was revealed in PVs by JVDS to have a memory problem or something like "he wouldn't remember what cloths he wore the day before...that's why our statements won't match."  IIRC, Carpe or someone made a youtube "I don't remember" to memorialize this information.

Many echos of "the VDS were never in the spot light" and "they aren't used to the press" from early in the case. 

IIRC, PVDS had a lawsuit in Holland regarding the family estate and a dangerous road, that went on for maybe 20 years?  I imagine there was some publicity.  How can a case go on for 20 years like that?  In his various jobs over the year, I would be surprised if he didn't have some interaction with the media, criminals, lawyers, etc.   How many 'simpletons' are part of the Dutch judiciary?  Prosecutors office?  Lawyers guild? 

Perhaps the simpleton statement was an effort to defend PVDS?  Keep him out of the target zone?  Make him look like he's been duped?   Perhaps Joe T. represents PVDS as well? 

I'd want to know if there is an international case brewing.  Maybe with the Dutch lawyer Beth was consulting?  Can't remember his name right now.  Is there new evidence to support these efforts?  International tribunal for JVDS, PVDS, Aruba, and the Netherlands?  NFI?

Could PVDS have some concerns?  Is PVDS eligible to argue at an international venue?  Not sure, but I expect to find out the nitty gritty in the future.

From the VF article -

Quote
Moreover, Dompig says, this summer F.B.I. profilers completed a detailed psychological evaluation. "He struck us, and the F.B.I., as a guy who can make you believe he's God's gift to mothers-in-law," Dompig says. "But if you look at his actions, he's anything but. The F.B.I. profiled him as a person who never has been corrected by his parents. He's the boss of what happens in that house. He's the boss in the family. He is allowed to do anything.… If a person like that is in a position where a person says, 'No,' well, that person may change completely. Maybe he blew a fuse when she wouldn't have sex with him, and something happened."

Jan VDS statements and offer of an institution in Holland instead of prison in Aruba...What did he know?  What evidence was there when he made that offer?

I wonder who else will be interviewed?  Which cases?  If I can stay awake that long, Dana's show has lots of surprises.  Always learn something new.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: WhiskeyGirl on December 03, 2008, 09:52:01 PM
Do ya'll reckon that Schaefer and Silvetti might be doing
a little offshore banking to hide some funds from that
SEC investigation?  That is a specialty of Croes and Tchong.

I guess anything is possible...

However, I believe that there would be a paper trail.  Reference AmSouth from early in the investigation.  Aren't banks required to keep some record of transactions?  Keep tabs on customer activity?  Note suspicious actions and report them?

Contrast this with banks in Aruba.  Do they have the same standards?  Concern for preventing money laundering?  IIRC, they are a global area of concern.

Could someone track their passport activity?  Would they do something in Aruba?  Maybe they asked the American bank for uncirculated money?  Or a check or something?

Do you have information that shows how this offshore banking is accomplished?  I've always wondered how people manage to do this and succeed at hiding assets.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on December 03, 2008, 09:53:36 PM
JMHO

Until this case is satisfactorily closed, I say talk to 'em all as often as possible. If all you get is BS, then just wash it off with what you know is truth. Every once in a while, a little truth will seep in if people keep talking. Then we can wash that nugget of truth off, and keep it to keep piecing the puzzle together.

Frankly, I believe there are at least a few chunks of truth in Joran's latest interview with Greta. If you consider what we've learned from Deepak and Satish who have, relative to Joran, kept their mouths' shut then we realize that this case may very well have gone away.

I don't care if it is Tacky on Dana. Keep flappin' those jaws.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: SS on December 03, 2008, 09:53:37 PM
Do ya'll reckon that Schaefer and Silvetti might be doing
a little offshore banking to hide some funds from that
SEC investigation?  That is a specialty of Croes and Tchong.




Mags - this morning Caps posted that an American couldn't own a business on Aruba without a partner.  I can make a few guesses as to who Silvetti's partner might be.  ::MonkeyCool::  Hint: he had a relative who cleaned the cage.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Magnolia on December 03, 2008, 10:01:17 PM
Do ya'll reckon that Schaefer and Silvetti might be doing
a little offshore banking to hide some funds from that
SEC investigation?  That is a specialty of Croes and Tchong.




Mags - this morning Caps posted that an American couldn't own a business on Aruba without a partner.  I can make a few guesses as to who Silvetti's partner might be.  ::MonkeyCool::  Hint: he had a relative who cleaned the cage.

Gotcha!

But why on earth would Silvetti not want the contents of the
cage known?  Caps even said that he dove down to the cage.
Who cares about the cage....it's what was in it that is important.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Tamikosmom on December 03, 2008, 10:12:06 PM
MICHAEL POSNER

The Island of Aruba did not anticipate the strength and determination of a mother by the name of Beth Holloway Twitty. By the time that Aruba realized that this amazing woman was not about to be silenced until her quest for answers regarding her precious daughter were answered … it was too late to turn back. It was no longer just about protecting Paulus and Joran in regards to their role in the events that encompass that fateful morning.  It was now about protecting those at all levels of the Aruban/Dutch administrations who were involved in the coverup … it was now about protecting the sons of the elite … it was now about protecting the judiciary and … it was now about the implications of exposing Michael Posner's little secrets in regards to organized crime … drugs … gambling … prostitution … pornography … money laundering.

What was the real Joran/Paulus/Posner connection?

Why did Michael Posner hire American attorney Joe Tacopina to represent Joran?

Why did Michael Posner hire a private investigator to search for Natalee Holloway?

Why did Paulus not face any consequences for accompanying his underage son to a casino for the purpose of gambling and drinking?

Janet

+++++++++

Aruban casino boss had ties to Chicago mob
Thursday, February 23, 2006 | 6:07 PM
Missing Alabama teen last seen at casino
By Chuck Goudie


February 23, 2006 (WLS) -- Authorities on the island of Aruba have not been able to solve the mystery of what happened to Alabama teenager Natalie Holloway. She disappeared while on a high school trip last spring. The ABC7 I-Team has learned new details about the casino where Holloway was last seen, an Aruba casino run by a convicted high-ranking Chicago mobster.

The unsolved disappearance of 18-year-old Natalie Holloway has commanded worldwide attention. It has been widely reported that the last place Holloway was known to be alive was the Excelsior casino connected to the Holiday Inn where she and her classmates were staying.
 
The I-Team has learned that the casino where Holloway was last seen is operated by Chicagoan Michael Posner. The intelligence report on Posner lists him as a prominent member of the Chicago outfit for more than 40 years.

According to federal law enforcement, Michael Posner's most recent mob assignment was boss of illegal rackets in the north suburbs. Posner was convicted in 1987 of threatening wayward gamblers with death and running prostitutes out of this Lake County strip club.

Through his Chicago lawyer, Posner maintains that he has been clean for 15 years and since 1998 has operated the Excelsior casino on the Caribbean resort on the island of Aruba.
 
Last May, honor student Natalie Holloway was staying at the resort on her high school graduation trip when she disappeared. One of the last places she was seen alive was in Posner's Excelsior casino.
 
In security tape obtained by ABC News, Holloway is seen at a table seated next to Joran van der Sloot, a local who is the prime suspect in the case.

Van der Slout admits having had a romantic encounter with Holloway, but in an exclusive interview to air Thursday night on Primetime, he says he is no criminal.

"I think I've been portrayed unfairly. I've been portrayed as a murderer and a rapist and everything that I'm not," van der Sloot said.

Casino boss Michael Posner denies that he knows van der Sloot and denies ever extending him casino credit.

Posner's lawyer Allan Ackerman says Posner was in Chicago when Holloway vanished and returned to Aruba the day after.
 
Now 64 years old, here's the intelligence report on Michael William Posner:

* aka Michael Rubins and Irving Goldstein.

* his family still resides in Riverwoods.
 
* his criminal profile lists involvement in illegal gambling, strip clubs and vending machines.

* criminal history dates to 1960 includes numerous arrests and successful tax and racketeering prosecutions.
 
Posner says it was he who voluntarily turned over this casino surveillance tape to Aruban authorities and that he is furious they have allowed ABC News to broadcast it.

Posner says he has paid the expenses for private investigators to come here and assist in the search for Holloway and according to his lawyer: "He has nothin' to do with nothing" in the murder case.

http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=investigative&id=3936339


DANA PRETZER
July 23, 2007


Dana: One thing that makes my listeners scratch their heads so to speak and wonder, myself included and we'll talk about it again, is the fact of the underage drinking and gambling that had been going on admittedly by young van der Sloot.  Was there ever any discussion or has there ever been any discussion at least of filing some charges as far as that goes?

Jossy:  No, there hasn't been any of that. The authorities have just (inaudible) it aside, they haven't paid any attention to it then and they're not paying any attention to it now and over the past 26 months.  I haven't seen anything in the direction of trying to make some kind of statement that this is not (inaudiable) at least make some sort of a statement that this is not (inaubible) because it is a known fact that as an underage he wasn't supposed to be in the casino, much less in the company of his father. He was there, there are video tapes to prove that and still the authorities haven't done anything with regard to that specific case.

http://scaredmonkeysradio.com/2007/07/23/the-dana-pretzer-show-monday-july-23rd-2007-special-guests-larry-sinclair-jossy-mansur-ladonna-meredith-attorney-jay-paul-deratany/


'Rita Cosby Live & Direct' for Sept. 19th
updated 6:33 a.m. PT, Tues., Sept. 20, 2005


HOLLOWAY TWITTY: ... I don‘t think there was ever a question that Joran and Paulus Van Der Sloot had been in that Excelsior Casino, and, particularly, on the night of the 29th where he and his father met Natalee.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9407728/


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: SS on December 03, 2008, 10:12:39 PM
Do ya'll reckon that Schaefer and Silvetti might be doing
a little offshore banking to hide some funds from that
SEC investigation?  That is a specialty of Croes and Tchong.




Mags - this morning Caps posted that an American couldn't own a business on Aruba without a partner.  I can make a few guesses as to who Silvetti's partner might be.  ::MonkeyCool::  Hint: he had a relative who cleaned the cage.

Gotcha!

But why on earth would Silvetti not want the contents of the
cage known?  Caps even said that he dove down to the cage.
Who cares about the cage....it's what was in it that is important.





This is what I posted a few weeks ago with Kermit's response.  It sounds like his business was in trouble and he was looking into some new oil ventures with Aruba and Chavez.  If he could do the search on a voluntary basis to look for a missing American woman, the expenses could all be written off on his corporate taxes.  He claimed the search cost a million dollars.  Did it really cost a million dollars???  Persistence searched for Natalee until the end of February, so how could they justify this nonprofit search if they had already found the her by the beginning of January?

SS:Monkeys - Kyle said that he discovered the trap on the screen very early Christmas morning.  That's when Tim said  "it looks like a skull".  The contents of the trap were cleaned on January 7th.  Persistence continued to use side scan sonor to map the ocean floor well into February.  Now how could they justify all of those extra weeks of searching for a missing American woman if they had already found her in the beginning of January?  They also needed to get our focus off of Persistence and the ocean search.  Viola!  Caps enters the picture to tell us about Manserat Pond.  The picture of the cage was never supposed to be released and I'm sure that caused big trouble.  All of the evidence disappeared.  The fabric sent to Quantico wasn't Natalee's blouse.  There wasn't anything else in the cage - it was just a coconut or a piece of coral.  Back to the ocean search for Peristence so that they could continue with the grids and their non profit search.

Kermit:
SS,
did you know CIA is hiring. BINGO great work
!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Tamikosmom on December 03, 2008, 10:20:56 PM
Do ya'll reckon that Schaefer and Silvetti might be doing
a little offshore banking to hide some funds from that
SEC investigation?  That is a specialty of Croes and Tchong.




Mags - this morning Caps posted that an American couldn't own a business on Aruba without a partner.  I can make a few guesses as to who Silvetti's partner might be.  ::MonkeyCool::  Hint: he had a relative who cleaned the cage.

 ::MonkeyShocked::

Who?  Tell me.  Tell me.  Pleeeeease.

Jane


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Magnolia on December 03, 2008, 10:25:09 PM
Do ya'll reckon that Schaefer and Silvetti might be doing
a little offshore banking to hide some funds from that
SEC investigation?  That is a specialty of Croes and Tchong.




Mags - this morning Caps posted that an American couldn't own a business on Aruba without a partner.  I can make a few guesses as to who Silvetti's partner might be.  ::MonkeyCool::  Hint: he had a relative who cleaned the cage.

Gotcha!

But why on earth would Silvetti not want the contents of the
cage known?  Caps even said that he dove down to the cage.
Who cares about the cage....it's what was in it that is important.





This is what I posted a few weeks ago with Kermit's response.  It sounds like his business was in trouble and he was looking into some new oil ventures with Aruba and Chavez.  If he could do the search on a voluntary basis to look for a missing American woman, the expenses could all be written off on his corporate taxes.  He claimed the search cost a million dollars.  Did it really cost a million dollars???  Persistence searched for Natalee until the end of February, so how could they justify this nonprofit search if they had already found the her by the beginning of January?

SS:Monkeys - Kyle said that he discovered the trap on the screen very early Christmas morning.  That's when Tim said  "it looks like a skull".  The contents of the trap were cleaned on January 7th.  Persistence continued to use side scan sonor to map the ocean floor well into February.  Now how could they justify all of those extra weeks of searching for a missing American woman if they had already found her in the beginning of January?  They also needed to get our focus off of Persistence and the ocean search.  Viola!  Caps enters the picture to tell us about Manserat Pond.  The picture of the cage was never supposed to be released and I'm sure that caused big trouble.  All of the evidence disappeared.  The fabric sent to Quantico wasn't Natalee's blouse.  There wasn't anything else in the cage - it was just a coconut or a piece of coral.  Back to the ocean search for Peristence so that they could continue with the grids and their non profit search.

Kermit:
SS,
did you know CIA is hiring. BINGO great work
!


Thank you SS.  I had forgotten.
Kermit was right....they are grave robbers!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Tamikosmom on December 03, 2008, 10:27:53 PM
Do ya'll reckon that Schaefer and Silvetti might be doing
a little offshore banking to hide some funds from that
SEC investigation?  That is a specialty of Croes and Tchong.




Mags - this morning Caps posted that an American couldn't own a business on Aruba without a partner.  I can make a few guesses as to who Silvetti's partner might be.  ::MonkeyCool::  Hint: he had a relative who cleaned the cage.

Gotcha!

But why on earth would Silvetti not want the contents of the
cage known?  Caps even said that he dove down to the cage.
Who cares about the cage....it's what was in it that is important.





This is what I posted a few weeks ago with Kermit's response.  It sounds like his business was in trouble and he was looking into some new oil ventures with Aruba and Chavez.  If he could do the search on a voluntary basis to look for a missing American woman, the expenses could all be written off on his corporate taxes.  He claimed the search cost a million dollars.  Did it really cost a million dollars???  Persistence searched for Natalee until the end of February, so how could they justify this nonprofit search if they had already found the her by the beginning of January?

SS:Monkeys - Kyle said that he discovered the trap on the screen very early Christmas morning.  That's when Tim said  "it looks like a skull".  The contents of the trap were cleaned on January 7th.  Persistence continued to use side scan sonor to map the ocean floor well into February.  Now how could they justify all of those extra weeks of searching for a missing American woman if they had already found her in the beginning of January?  They also needed to get our focus off of Persistence and the ocean search.  Viola!  Caps enters the picture to tell us about Manserat Pond.  The picture of the cage was never supposed to be released and I'm sure that caused big trouble.  All of the evidence disappeared.  The fabric sent to Quantico wasn't Natalee's blouse.  There wasn't anything else in the cage - it was just a coconut or a piece of coral.  Back to the ocean search for Peristence so that they could continue with the grids and their non profit search.

Kermit:
SS,
did you know CIA is hiring. BINGO great work
!


SS and Kermit

The implication is that all who donated to the so-called search efforts of Persistence for the remains of Natalee Holloway were scammed.

Do I have that right?

Janet


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Tamikosmom on December 03, 2008, 10:37:42 PM
The following is a compilation of quotes derived from emails communication between Kermit and Kyle.

Janet
________

Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #779 11/24/08 -
« Reply #532 on: November 25, 2008, 07:06:45 PM »


From Kyle: march 18, 2008:  If you want, you can get Red from SM off my back. I really don't like that guy. He thinks he knows what's going on but doesn't have a clue. I first saw the pics on the SM home page and fired off an email to Red believing that he would be understanding and help provide answers. I quickly found out what happened on my own and dealt with it. I could not believe his response.

~Kyle

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4179.msg557660#msg557660


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #779 11/24/08 -
« Reply #532 on: November 25, 2008, 07:06:45 PM »


From Kyle: I have not given anything to the FBI since the pictures and statements from Dec 29th

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4179.msg557660#msg557660


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #779 11/24/08 -
« Reply #532 on: November 25, 2008, 07:06:45 PM »


From Kyle: None of us gave any statements to the authorities after the 29th. It's possible John Silvetti did, because he was the only one conversing with them after Jan 7th.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4179.msg557660#msg557660


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #779 11/24/08 -
« Reply #532 on: November 25, 2008, 07:06:45 PM »


From Kyle: May 8, 2008: "I've talked with Peter Shouten numerous times back in February. He hasn't seen anything but knows about the blue fabrics. DeVries and Endemol was interested in purchasing the ROV footage and I was working between them, ABC, and CBS to strike a deal."

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4179.msg557660#msg557660


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #888 on: Today at 02:43:35 AM »


Jan. 7th picture Kyle said: "In case it isn't clear.. notice the blue denim-like fabric”

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564718#msg564718


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #902 on: Today at 03:09:00 AM »


Kyle said: "The Aruban divers were on the police boat, dove from their boat, and returned to their boat."

Kyle said: "They were immediately whisked away by the Aruban police and not seen of again by us on the 7th"

Kyle said: " John stood back and waited and worked with the Aruban Polis"

Kyle said: "John definitely believed the Arubans at their every word"

Kyle said: "John didn't want Tim Miller on board the Persistence because he said Tim wasn't necessary any more and was a liability"

Kyle said: "John told me then he didn't want to hear me ever mention the trap again."

June 10, 2008 = Kyle states: “He's [John Silvetti] seriously making plans to open an Aruba office so he can conduct business easier in S. America and that would allow him to do that."

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564763#msg564763


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #903 on: Today at 03:12:23 AM »


Kyle said: "Schafer is sue crazy."

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564766;topicseen#msg564766


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #897 on: Today at 03:02:28 AM »


Kyle: “I did not feel the same and we had a major difference in opinion. He [John Silvetti] was the one who never pressed ALE to be completely open with us with the trap evidence. I would have forced them to. However, John was the one paying my invoices so I was forced to sit back and hope for the best.”

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564753;topicseen#msg564753


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #883 on: Today at 02:39:52 AM »


Kyle said: " We all know it wasn't a blouse, but I believe they were sent some piece of fabric other than the fabric found inside the trap.”

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564707#msg564707


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #896 on: Today at 03:00:21 AM »


Kyle said: "The blue fabric was found right where the skirt is pictured. If it isn't her, it will forever haunt me as a major cosmic WTF.”

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564748;topicseen#msg564748


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #896 on: Today at 03:00:21 AM »


Kyle said: "We're being fed misinformation to keep us searching and out of their way while they cover their asses, destroy evidence, cover their tracks, and keep us out at sea and away from the trap."

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564748;topicseen#msg564748


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #888 on: Today at 02:43:35 AM »


Jan. 7th picture Kyle said: "In case it isn't clear.. notice the blue denim-like fabric”

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564718#msg564718


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #779 11/24/08 -
« Reply #532 on: Today at 07:06:45 PM »


From Kyle: May 8, 2008: "I've talked with Peter Shouten numerous times back in February. He hasn't seen anything but knows about the blue fabrics. DeVries and Endemol was interested in purchasing the ROV footage and I was working between them, ABC, and CBS to strike a deal."

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4179.msg557660#msg557660


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #882 on: Today at 02:36:28 AM »


Kyle said: "Louis is currently working with someone who I do not know to put together some documentary on the case, the way it was handled, and what happened during the search. I learned this from Tim T. yesterday. Louis was sold on the idea that it will make him a lot of money.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564701;topicseen#msg564701


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #802 on: December 02, 2008, 05:16:26 PM »


Kyle said: “The portion of the discolored blue fabric was presumably on the bottom of the fabric. In my opinion this discoloration is not another type of fabric, but rather biological staining or discoloration from biological growth caused from a high organic carbon content and decay. Basically, during decay a biological mat will form around the organics from remains. This is what I believe it is on the bottom of the fabric.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564125;topicseen#msg564125


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #779 11/24/08 -
« Reply #642 on: November 25, 2008, 10:12:27 PM »


May 8, 2008 = from Kyle: John Silvetti told me today that he may be returning to Aruba very soon for a few days.

May 19, 2008 = from Kyle:
"I couldn't get the logs from the Persistence. All things "Holloway" were stripped from the boat once it got back to Louisiana

JUNE 10, 2008 = from Kyle:
He's [John Silvetti] seriously making plans to open an Aruba office so he can conduct business easier in S. America and that would allow him to do that.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4179.msg557914;topicseen#msg557914


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #779 11/24/08 -
« Reply #635 on: November 25, 2008, 10:06:58 PM »


from Kyle: "It was confirmed by the FBI that they received a fabric sample send by Richardson and that it wasn't a match to Natalee's blouse. I think the video can prove or disprove whatever the FBI was sent was the same object or not. I strongly believe it's blue denim. Everyone I show thinks the same thing without being prompted (including senior ABC execs).

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4179.msg557906;topicseen#msg557906


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Keepthefaith on December 03, 2008, 10:38:09 PM
Do ya'll reckon that Schaefer and Silvetti might be doing
a little offshore banking to hide some funds from that
SEC investigation?  That is a specialty of Croes and Tchong.

Interesting Magnolia!AS Kermit says...Follow the money.We shall follow the money no matter who it pertains to in this case.Paulus,Joran,Silvetti,Schaeffer,etc,etc..Whomever is a part of this case is a open book.JMOO


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: WhiskeyGirl on December 03, 2008, 10:40:33 PM
Do ya'll reckon that Schaefer and Silvetti might be doing
a little offshore banking to hide some funds from that
SEC investigation?  That is a specialty of Croes and Tchong.


Mags - this morning Caps posted that an American couldn't own a business on Aruba without a partner.  I can make a few guesses as to who Silvetti's partner might be.  ::MonkeyCool::  Hint: he had a relative who cleaned the cage.

Gotcha!

But why on earth would Silvetti not want the contents of the
cage known?  Caps even said that he dove down to the cage.
Who cares about the cage....it's what was in it that is important.


There are a number of reasons one should care about the cage -

Is it the same cage/trap that was reported missing by the fishermen at the huts by the Marriott?   Sounds simple.  Is it made of the same material?  Same kind of rebar and chicken wire/mesh?  Could they identify it?   Was it unique, and easy for the fishermen to identify? 

What size is the cage?  Would it fit on the Gottenbos boat?  Based on it's size, and potential placement, are there signs of repair at points that may have been damaged on the Gottenbos boat? 

How heavy is the cage?  Could one or more people have lifted it and secured it to the boat?

Is there something anchoring the cage to that spot?  Could it have moved or shifted over three or more years?  Where might the starting point have been?  Where was the cage in May 2005?  Maybe there is additional evidence waiting to be found on the path from 2005 until 2008?

Is it possible that something remains in the cage?  Under the cage? 

Could the marine life/decay be dated?  Maybe there is some identification on the cage/trap that would suggest it was not made/dropped/in service until after June 2005?

If John Silvetti did not want the contents of the cage known, why did he send down the ROV, at least twice to my knowledge, and take pictures?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: WhiskeyGirl on December 03, 2008, 10:43:29 PM
Do ya'll reckon that Schaefer and Silvetti might be doing
a little offshore banking to hide some funds from that
SEC investigation?  That is a specialty of Croes and Tchong.

Interesting Magnolia!AS Kermit says...Follow the money.We shall follow the money no matter who it pertains to in this case.Paulus,Joran,Silvetti,Schaeffer,etc,etc..Whomever is a part of this case is a open book.JMOO

I agree.  I think they should look into those bank account records, ATM records, wire transfers, etc.  Big dollar amounts should stick out like a sore thumb. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Keepthefaith on December 03, 2008, 10:44:18 PM
Do ya'll reckon that Schaefer and Silvetti might be doing
a little offshore banking to hide some funds from that
SEC investigation?  That is a specialty of Croes and Tchong.


I have NO problem with the donations to TES but how was the money being distributed??How were Silvetti,Schaeffer,Kyle,as well as the rest of the boys being paid??Remember.I believe Kyle said silvetti paid his invoices or something to that nature.Correct me if i'm wrong!



Mags - this morning Caps posted that an American couldn't own a business on Aruba without a partner.  I can make a few guesses as to who Silvetti's partner might be.  ::MonkeyCool::  Hint: he had a relative who cleaned the cage.

Gotcha!

But why on earth would Silvetti not want the contents of the
cage known?  Caps even said that he dove down to the cage.
Who cares about the cage....it's what was in it that is important.





This is what I posted a few weeks ago with Kermit's response.  It sounds like his business was in trouble and he was looking into some new oil ventures with Aruba and Chavez.  If he could do the search on a voluntary basis to look for a missing American woman, the expenses could all be written off on his corporate taxes.  He claimed the search cost a million dollars.  Did it really cost a million dollars???  Persistence searched for Natalee until the end of February, so how could they justify this nonprofit search if they had already found the her by the beginning of January?

SS:Monkeys - Kyle said that he discovered the trap on the screen very early Christmas morning.  That's when Tim said  "it looks like a skull".  The contents of the trap were cleaned on January 7th.  Persistence continued to use side scan sonor to map the ocean floor well into February.  Now how could they justify all of those extra weeks of searching for a missing American woman if they had already found her in the beginning of January?  They also needed to get our focus off of Persistence and the ocean search.  Viola!  Caps enters the picture to tell us about Manserat Pond.  The picture of the cage was never supposed to be released and I'm sure that caused big trouble.  All of the evidence disappeared.  The fabric sent to Quantico wasn't Natalee's blouse.  There wasn't anything else in the cage - it was just a coconut or a piece of coral.  Back to the ocean search for Peristence so that they could continue with the grids and their non profit search.

Kermit:
SS,
did you know CIA is hiring. BINGO great work
!


SS and Kermit

The implication is that all who donated to the so-called search efforts of Persistence for the remains of Natalee Holloway were scammed.

Do I have that right?

Janet


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: SS on December 03, 2008, 10:44:58 PM
Do ya'll reckon that Schaefer and Silvetti might be doing
a little offshore banking to hide some funds from that
SEC investigation?  That is a specialty of Croes and Tchong.




Mags - this morning Caps posted that an American couldn't own a business on Aruba without a partner.  I can make a few guesses as to who Silvetti's partner might be.  ::MonkeyCool::  Hint: he had a relative who cleaned the cage.

 ::MonkeyShocked::

Who?  Tell me.  Tell me.  Pleeeeease.

Jane



Janet - I have really good reason for believing that there is a connection between the two people, social and business.  If I say the name, I will get hit with truck loads of bananas.  Remember the name of the diver on January 7th that Kyle refused to identify. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on December 03, 2008, 10:45:39 PM
Tamikosmom, I love your questions because I'm lost and you're helping me find my way! Thx!!   ::MonkeyWink::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Keepthefaith on December 03, 2008, 10:46:36 PM
Do ya'll reckon that Schaefer and Silvetti might be doing
a little offshore banking to hide some funds from that
SEC investigation?  That is a specialty of Croes and Tchong.

Interesting Magnolia!AS Kermit says...Follow the money.We shall follow the money no matter who it pertains to in this case.Paulus,Joran,Silvetti,Schaeffer,etc,etc..Whomever is a part of this case is a open book.JMOO

I agree.  I think they should look into those bank account records, ATM records, wire transfers, etc.  Big dollar amounts should stick out like a sore thumb. 

How much were they paying themselves??If anything??


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Tamikosmom on December 03, 2008, 10:47:47 PM
Tamikosmom, I love your questions because I'm lost and you're helping me find my way! Thx!!   ::MonkeyWink::

... but ... but ... nobody is answering my questions?

 ::MonkeyWaa::

Janet


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: truthseeker2 on December 03, 2008, 10:49:26 PM
So is there a consensus that Natalee's remains were in that cage?  If so, Joran contacting Greta and implicating his father in the human trafficking scenario, knowing that Aruba had already taken care of the evidence, only makes sense if Joran was just looking for money.  Or, if Joran was setting up an alibi for not knowing that Natalee was dumped in the ocean. Which makes no sense for him to tell Greta eight hours after the interview that his new story was a lie.

If Greta was right in asking Joran if the 'recorded calls between him and his father' occurred in January, that time frame would match up with the activities surrounding the cleaning of the cage.  Was that a guess by Greta, or is that what Joran told her before the sitdown interview?  Seems like an odd coincidence to me.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: SS on December 03, 2008, 10:50:15 PM
Do ya'll reckon that Schaefer and Silvetti might be doing
a little offshore banking to hide some funds from that
SEC investigation?  That is a specialty of Croes and Tchong.




Mags - this morning Caps posted that an American couldn't own a business on Aruba without a partner.  I can make a few guesses as to who Silvetti's partner might be.  ::MonkeyCool::  Hint: he had a relative who cleaned the cage.

Gotcha!

But why on earth would Silvetti not want the contents of the
cage known?  Caps even said that he dove down to the cage.
Who cares about the cage....it's what was in it that is important.





This is what I posted a few weeks ago with Kermit's response.  It sounds like his business was in trouble and he was looking into some new oil ventures with Aruba and Chavez.  If he could do the search on a voluntary basis to look for a missing American woman, the expenses could all be written off on his corporate taxes.  He claimed the search cost a million dollars.  Did it really cost a million dollars???  Persistence searched for Natalee until the end of February, so how could they justify this nonprofit search if they had already found the her by the beginning of January?

SS:Monkeys - Kyle said that he discovered the trap on the screen very early Christmas morning.  That's when Tim said  "it looks like a skull".  The contents of the trap were cleaned on January 7th.  Persistence continued to use side scan sonor to map the ocean floor well into February.  Now how could they justify all of those extra weeks of searching for a missing American woman if they had already found her in the beginning of January?  They also needed to get our focus off of Persistence and the ocean search.  Viola!  Caps enters the picture to tell us about Manserat Pond.  The picture of the cage was never supposed to be released and I'm sure that caused big trouble.  All of the evidence disappeared.  The fabric sent to Quantico wasn't Natalee's blouse.  There wasn't anything else in the cage - it was just a coconut or a piece of coral.  Back to the ocean search for Peristence so that they could continue with the grids and their non profit search.

Kermit:
SS,
did you know CIA is hiring. BINGO great work
!


SS and Kermit

The implication is that all who donated to the so-called search efforts of Persistence for the remains of Natalee Holloway were scammed.

Do I have that right?

Janet




No Janet, and I was one of those making donations.  The money didn't go to Silvetti, Schafer, or their companies.  The money went directly to TES in Texas.  I have no doubt that Tim Miller used the money that we sent for everything we intended it to go for. Remember, they sent Tim off of Persistence when ALE did their task.  Tim was also duped into chasing a false lead in Nicaragua during that time.  I have absolutely no doubt that our donations went to TES.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Keepthefaith on December 03, 2008, 10:53:23 PM
Do ya'll reckon that Schaefer and Silvetti might be doing
a little offshore banking to hide some funds from that
SEC investigation?  That is a specialty of Croes and Tchong.




Mags - this morning Caps posted that an American couldn't own a business on Aruba without a partner.  I can make a few guesses as to who Silvetti's partner might be.  ::MonkeyCool::  Hint: he had a relative who cleaned the cage.

Gotcha!

But why on earth would Silvetti not want the contents of the
cage known?  Caps even said that he dove down to the cage.
Who cares about the cage....it's what was in it that is important.





This is what I posted a few weeks ago with Kermit's response.  It sounds like his business was in trouble and he was looking into some new oil ventures with Aruba and Chavez.  If he could do the search on a voluntary basis to look for a missing American woman, the expenses could all be written off on his corporate taxes.  He claimed the search cost a million dollars.  Did it really cost a million dollars???  Persistence searched for Natalee until the end of February, so how could they justify this nonprofit search if they had already found the her by the beginning of January?

SS:Monkeys - Kyle said that he discovered the trap on the screen very early Christmas morning.  That's when Tim said  "it looks like a skull".  The contents of the trap were cleaned on January 7th.  Persistence continued to use side scan sonor to map the ocean floor well into February.  Now how could they justify all of those extra weeks of searching for a missing American woman if they had already found her in the beginning of January?  They also needed to get our focus off of Persistence and the ocean search.  Viola!  Caps enters the picture to tell us about Manserat Pond.  The picture of the cage was never supposed to be released and I'm sure that caused big trouble.  All of the evidence disappeared.  The fabric sent to Quantico wasn't Natalee's blouse.  There wasn't anything else in the cage - it was just a coconut or a piece of coral.  Back to the ocean search for Peristence so that they could continue with the grids and their non profit search.

Kermit:
SS,
did you know CIA is hiring. BINGO great work
!


SS and Kermit

The implication is that all who donated to the so-called search efforts of Persistence for the remains of Natalee Holloway were scammed.

Do I have that right?

Janet

I believe the potential exists Janet.Like Kermit said "Follow the money"!My question is.I have no problem with the donations to TES.How were the donations dispersed??How much did they pay themselves??After they found the cage,as well as the contents of the cage why would you keep searching until all contents were tested??They knew they weren't going to test??If they continued to "Search" after the cage what money were they using..OK enough questions...KERMIT..HELP..LOL ::MonkeyConfused::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on December 03, 2008, 10:54:59 PM
So is there a consensus that Natalee's remains were in that cage?  If so, Joran contacting Greta and implicating his father in the human trafficking scenario, knowing that Aruba had already taken care of the evidence, only makes sense if Joran was just looking for money.  Or, if Joran was setting up an alibi for not knowing that Natalee was dumped in the ocean. Which makes no sense for him to tell Greta eight hours after the interview that his new story was a lie.

If Greta was right in asking Joran if the 'recorded calls between him and his father' occurred in January, that time frame would match up with the activities surrounding the cleaning of the cage.  Was that a guess by Greta, or is that what Joran told her before the sitdown interview?  Seems like an odd coincidence to me.

Oh, OK. I can't take it anymore, so I'll just ask. Please be gentle with the stupid mod that hasn't properly kept up.........

If Natalee's remains were in the cage, why didn't they bring them up and announce to the world, "WE FOUND HER!"

Tim was there when they found the cage. I saw him. Didn't I?

Remember now.................be kind to animals and fools! Thank you very much, loyal monkeys.  ::MonkeyRoll::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: SS on December 03, 2008, 10:57:20 PM
Tamikosmom, I love your questions because I'm lost and you're helping me find my way! Thx!!   ::MonkeyWink::

... but ... but ... nobody is answering my questions?

 ::MonkeyWaa::

Janet




*****




Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Keepthefaith on December 03, 2008, 10:59:55 PM
So is there a consensus that Natalee's remains were in that cage?  If so, Joran contacting Greta and implicating his father in the human trafficking scenario, knowing that Aruba had already taken care of the evidence, only makes sense if Joran was just looking for money.  Or, if Joran was setting up an alibi for not knowing that Natalee was dumped in the ocean. Which makes no sense for him to tell Greta eight hours after the interview that his new story was a lie.

If Greta was right in asking Joran if the 'recorded calls between him and his father' occurred in January, that time frame would match up with the activities surrounding the cleaning of the cage.  Was that a guess by Greta, or is that what Joran told her before the sitdown interview?  Seems like an odd coincidence to me.

Oh, OK. I can't take it anymore, so I'll just ask. Please be gentle with the stupid mod that hasn't properly kept up.........

If Natalee's remains were in the cage, why didn't they bring them up and announce to the world, "WE FOUND HER!"

Tim was there when they found the cage. I saw him. Didn't I?

Remember now.................be kind to animals and fools! Thank you very much, loyal monkeys.  ::MonkeyRoll::

CBB.Klass or another Brainiac Monkey will be quicker then i.Ask Klass which thread this whole converstaion started with OE and Kermit about Kermit releasing the cage photos!You may be able to go in to each posters profile and get the just of how it all went down!If you start there then move forward with what Kermit has said you'll get a great understanding.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: truthseeker2 on December 03, 2008, 11:01:49 PM
So is there a consensus that Natalee's remains were in that cage?  If so, Joran contacting Greta and implicating his father in the human trafficking scenario, knowing that Aruba had already taken care of the evidence, only makes sense if Joran was just looking for money.  Or, if Joran was setting up an alibi for not knowing that Natalee was dumped in the ocean. Which makes no sense for him to tell Greta eight hours after the interview that his new story was a lie.

If Greta was right in asking Joran if the 'recorded calls between him and his father' occurred in January, that time frame would match up with the activities surrounding the cleaning of the cage.  Was that a guess by Greta, or is that what Joran told her before the sitdown interview?  Seems like an odd coincidence to me.

Oh, OK. I can't take it anymore, so I'll just ask. Please be gentle with the stupid mod that hasn't properly kept up.........

If Natalee's remains were in the cage, why didn't they bring them up and announce to the world, "WE FOUND HER!"

Tim was there when they found the cage. I saw him. Didn't I?

Remember now.................be kind to animals and fools! Thank you very much, loyal monkeys.  ::MonkeyRoll::

lol.  I'm just as confused as you are.  I'm trying to decide if most monkeys believe that her remains were in that cage. It sounds as though they do.  If true, the cover up has been completed.  So WTH was Joran doing talking to Greta???????


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on December 03, 2008, 11:03:04 PM
So is there a consensus that Natalee's remains were in that cage?  If so, Joran contacting Greta and implicating his father in the human trafficking scenario, knowing that Aruba had already taken care of the evidence, only makes sense if Joran was just looking for money.  Or, if Joran was setting up an alibi for not knowing that Natalee was dumped in the ocean. Which makes no sense for him to tell Greta eight hours after the interview that his new story was a lie.

If Greta was right in asking Joran if the 'recorded calls between him and his father' occurred in January, that time frame would match up with the activities surrounding the cleaning of the cage.  Was that a guess by Greta, or is that what Joran told her before the sitdown interview?  Seems like an odd coincidence to me.

Oh, OK. I can't take it anymore, so I'll just ask. Please be gentle with the stupid mod that hasn't properly kept up.........

If Natalee's remains were in the cage, why didn't they bring them up and announce to the world, "WE FOUND HER!"

Tim was there when they found the cage. I saw him. Didn't I?

Remember now.................be kind to animals and fools! Thank you very much, loyal monkeys.  ::MonkeyRoll::

CBB.Klass or another Brainiac Monkey will be quicker then i.Ask Klass which thread this whole converstaion started with OE and Kermit about Kermit releasing the cage photos!You may be able to go in to each posters profile and get the just of how it all went down!If you start there then move forward with what Kermit has said you'll get a great understanding.

Oh, thank you. I can do that!  ::MonkeyWink::

I'm off to delve Kermit's posts!
When I get back, I'll be so smug!   ::MonkeyHaHa::

Thanks again!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on December 03, 2008, 11:04:45 PM
Glad to be in your company Truth! Heck, I was still trying to figure out whether to believe anything in Greta's interview with Joran!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: cajun miracle on December 03, 2008, 11:05:07 PM
Tamikosmom, I love your questions because I'm lost and you're helping me find my way! Thx!!   ::MonkeyWink::

... but ... but ... nobody is answering my questions?

 ::MonkeyWaa::

Janet




*****




That's what I was thinking since his sons are divers.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Tamikosmom on December 03, 2008, 11:05:12 PM
Do ya'll reckon that Schaefer and Silvetti might be doing
a little offshore banking to hide some funds from that
SEC investigation?  That is a specialty of Croes and Tchong.

Mags - this morning Caps posted that an American couldn't own a business on Aruba without a partner.  I can make a few guesses as to who Silvetti's partner might be.  ::MonkeyCool::  Hint: he had a relative who cleaned the cage.

 ::MonkeyShocked::

Who?  Tell me.  Tell me.  Pleeeeease.

Janet

Janet - I have really good reason for believing that there is a connection between the two people, social and business.  If I say the name, I will get hit with truck loads of bananas.  Remember the name of the diver on January 7th that Kyle refused to identify. 

 ::MonkeyWaa::

I can only assume that the Persistence undertaking was exactly what Private Eye claimed ... a joint endeavor with ALE to locate evidence to allow it to be destroyed.  The game was fixed but Tim Miller and ... in the beginning ... Kyle were pawns in that game.

Janet

+++++

private eye (Beth Holloway's Brother)
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
« Reply #499 on: April 09, 2008, 12:39:50 AM »


If I understood Kyle correctly, and that would be that the Arubans retrieved and possessed all finds, not sharing anything with the crew, then that effort was a waste of time and effort. The only thing it could have accomplished was to locate additional evidence for the Arubans to destroy.  The effort was superb, but the game was fixed.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2769.msg372245;topicseen#msg372245


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #902 on: Today at 03:09:00 AM »


Kyle said: "John didn't want Tim Miller on board the Persistence because he said Tim wasn't necessary any more and was a liability"

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564763#msg564763


Miller/Dave Holloway
NBC DATELINE
February 22, 2008


And on Dec. 29 the crew dropped a remote operated vehicle, or ROV, into the water to get a closer look.
 
Tim Miller: It looked like a skull. Still looks like a skull.  

Chris Hansen: So, you're thinking-- you're thinking at this point--
Tim Miller: I’m thinking at this point, "Oh, my God, maybe we've got something. Maybe we've got something."

Could they have found her? Or was hope, perhaps, making them see what they wanted to see?

(on the boat)

Tim Miller: In my years of searching we have seen several bodies, skeletal remains--I have seen my own daughter's skeletal remains.  I can’t help but believe at this moment that that is human remains in that crab trap.

<snipped>

Dave Holloway: He (Miller) told me, he said, "Dave, we found her."

Chris Hansen: "We found her?"
 
Dave Holloway: Yeah. I said, "Are you sure?" and he said, "I’m 99.9 percent sure." He said, "We hadn't gone down and dove under or anything. But the photographs--" he said, "I tell you, Dave." I-- he said, "That's what we're looking for. And that's gotta -- that -- that's it."  

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23301056/page/4/


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Keepthefaith on December 03, 2008, 11:06:07 PM
So is there a consensus that Natalee's remains were in that cage?  If so, Joran contacting Greta and implicating his father in the human trafficking scenario, knowing that Aruba had already taken care of the evidence, only makes sense if Joran was just looking for money.  Or, if Joran was setting up an alibi for not knowing that Natalee was dumped in the ocean. Which makes no sense for him to tell Greta eight hours after the interview that his new story was a lie.

If Greta was right in asking Joran if the 'recorded calls between him and his father' occurred in January, that time frame would match up with the activities surrounding the cleaning of the cage.  Was that a guess by Greta, or is that what Joran told her before the sitdown interview?  Seems like an odd coincidence to me.

Oh, OK. I can't take it anymore, so I'll just ask. Please be gentle with the stupid mod that hasn't properly kept up.........

If Natalee's remains were in the cage, why didn't they bring them up and announce to the world, "WE FOUND HER!"

Tim was there when they found the cage. I saw him. Didn't I?

Remember now.................be kind to animals and fools! Thank you very much, loyal monkeys.  ::MonkeyRoll::

CBB.Klass or another Brainiac Monkey will be quicker then i.Ask Klass which thread this whole converstaion started with OE and Kermit about Kermit releasing the cage photos!You may be able to go in to each posters profile and get the just of how it all went down!If you start there then move forward with what Kermit has said you'll get a great understanding.

Oh, thank you. I can do that!  ::MonkeyWink::

I'm off to delve Kermit's posts!
When I get back, I'll be so smug!   ::MonkeyHaHa::

Thanks again!

I believe that is the last day OE(Kyle) has posted here..Look forward to your thoughts and monkey opinions when you get back.LOL..It is very interesting to say the least!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Magnolia on December 03, 2008, 11:08:21 PM
OK...I'll try this one.
They were not really there to look for Natalee, but to map
the ocean between Aruba and Venezuela.
They found the cage early Christmas morning.  Tim Miller
and ABC were on the boat at the time.
They sent Tim and Dave on the false lead to Costa Rica to
get Tim off the boat.  ABC went home.
They say that they did not dive on the cage until Jan7th
when the Aruban divers went down from their boat and
retrieved all the evidence to their boat.  Nobody objected.
There are pictures here of all the evidence in plastic bags.
Silvetti and Scheafer didn't want the contents of the trap known
because they wanted to continue with their mapping project
under the guise of hunting for Natalee.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: SS on December 03, 2008, 11:08:35 PM
So is there a consensus that Natalee's remains were in that cage?  If so, Joran contacting Greta and implicating his father in the human trafficking scenario, knowing that Aruba had already taken care of the evidence, only makes sense if Joran was just looking for money.  Or, if Joran was setting up an alibi for not knowing that Natalee was dumped in the ocean. Which makes no sense for him to tell Greta eight hours after the interview that his new story was a lie.

If Greta was right in asking Joran if the 'recorded calls between him and his father' occurred in January, that time frame would match up with the activities surrounding the cleaning of the cage.  Was that a guess by Greta, or is that what Joran told her before the sitdown interview?  Seems like an odd coincidence to me.

Oh, OK. I can't take it anymore, so I'll just ask. Please be gentle with the stupid mod that hasn't properly kept up.........

If Natalee's remains were in the cage, why didn't they bring them up and announce to the world, "WE FOUND HER!"

Tim was there when they found the cage. I saw him. Didn't I?

Remember now.................be kind to animals and fools! Thank you very much, loyal monkeys.  ::MonkeyRoll::




OK CBB and it's because you makes us such beautiful avitars.   ::MonkeyHaHa::

1.  Silvetti's businesses were in trouble.  He wanted to start new businesses with oil and an oil pipeline from Aruba to Chavez in Colombia.  He needed money.
2.  He illegally sold off his shares of stock and that is why the SEC is after him.
3.  Before he started his new oil business, he needed to have a geological scan of the ocean floor.  Doing those scans costs lots of money.
4.  He agreed to volunteer his ship, crew, and equipment to search for a missing American woman in the same area.  He scans the ocean floor looking for Natalee, but really he's doing oil work.
5.  Most of his expenses for the Persistence search were written off on his corporate tax returns because it was charity work and a donation that he was doing.  By looking for Natalee, he was able to map the ocean for free.
6.  Natalee was found in the end of December.  Oh no, what can he do?  He can't keep mapping the ocean floor for free because he just found the missing American woman.  So, the trap contents were turned over to ALE, nothing was ever in that trap. and he continued to search for Natalee and map for oil for another 6 to 8 weeks -at very little expense to himself.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on December 03, 2008, 11:10:12 PM
So is there a consensus that Natalee's remains were in that cage?  If so, Joran contacting Greta and implicating his father in the human trafficking scenario, knowing that Aruba had already taken care of the evidence, only makes sense if Joran was just looking for money.  Or, if Joran was setting up an alibi for not knowing that Natalee was dumped in the ocean. Which makes no sense for him to tell Greta eight hours after the interview that his new story was a lie.

If Greta was right in asking Joran if the 'recorded calls between him and his father' occurred in January, that time frame would match up with the activities surrounding the cleaning of the cage.  Was that a guess by Greta, or is that what Joran told her before the sitdown interview?  Seems like an odd coincidence to me.

Oh, OK. I can't take it anymore, so I'll just ask. Please be gentle with the stupid mod that hasn't properly kept up.........

If Natalee's remains were in the cage, why didn't they bring them up and announce to the world, "WE FOUND HER!"

Tim was there when they found the cage. I saw him. Didn't I?

Remember now.................be kind to animals and fools! Thank you very much, loyal monkeys.  ::MonkeyRoll::

CBB.Klaas or another Brainiac Monkey will be quicker then i.Ask Klaas which thread this whole conversation started with OE and Kermit about Kermit releasing the cage photos!You may be able to go in to each posters profile and get the just of how it all went down!If you start there then move forward with what Kermit has said you'll get a great understanding.

Off the top of my head, I'd say mid November...give or take....but not swearing to it without doing the search you just suggested...I'm a brainiac mod on hiatus...sort of.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: always 1 on December 03, 2008, 11:12:39 PM
So is there a consensus that Natalee's remains were in that cage?  If so, Joran contacting Greta and implicating his father in the human trafficking scenario, knowing that Aruba had already taken care of the evidence, only makes sense if Joran was just looking for money.  Or, if Joran was setting up an alibi for not knowing that Natalee was dumped in the ocean. Which makes no sense for him to tell Greta eight hours after the interview that his new story was a lie.

If Greta was right in asking Joran if the 'recorded calls between him and his father' occurred in January, that time frame would match up with the activities surrounding the cleaning of the cage.  Was that a guess by Greta, or is that what Joran told her before the sitdown interview?  Seems like an odd coincidence to me.

Oh, OK. I can't take it anymore, so I'll just ask. Please be gentle with the stupid mod that hasn't properly kept up.........

If Natalee's remains were in the cage, why didn't they bring them up and announce to the world, "WE FOUND HER!"

Tim was there when they found the cage. I saw him. Didn't I?

Remember now.................be kind to animals and fools! Thank you very much, loyal monkeys.  ::MonkeyRoll::




OK CBB and it's because you makes us such beautiful avitars.   ::MonkeyHaHa::

1.  Silvetti's businesses were in trouble.  He wanted to start new businesses with oil and an oil pipeline from Aruba to Chavez in Colombia.  He needed money.
2.  He illegally sold off his shares of stock and that is why the SEC is after him.
3.  Before he started his new oil business, he needed to have a geological scan of the ocean floor.  Doing those scans costs lots of money.
4.  He agreed to volunteer his ship, crew, and equipment to search for a missing American woman in the same area.  He scans the ocean floor looking for Natalee, but really he's doing oil work.
5.  Most of his expenses for the Persistence search were written off on his corporate tax returns because it was charity work and a donation that he was doing.  By looking for Natalee, he was able to map the ocean for free.
6.  Natalee was found in the end of December.  Oh no, what can he do?  He can't keep mapping the ocean floor for free because he just found the missing American woman.  So, the trap contents were turned over to ALE, nothing was ever in that trap. and he continued to search for Natalee and map for oil for another 6 to 8 weeks -at very little expense to himself.
That sounds perfect,  but where are the remains now????


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Tamikosmom on December 03, 2008, 11:13:08 PM

1.  Silvetti's businesses were in trouble.  He wanted to start new businesses with oil and an oil pipeline from Aruba to Chavez in Colombia.  He needed money.

2.  He illegally sold off his shares of stock and that is why the SEC is after him.

3.  Before he started his new oil business, he needed to have a geological scan of the ocean floor.  Doing those scans costs lots of money.

4.  He agreed to volunteer his ship, crew, and equipment to search for a missing American woman in the same area.  He scans the ocean floor looking for Natalee, but really he's doing oil work.

5.  Most of his expenses for the Persistence search were written off on his corporate tax returns because it was charity work and a donation that he was doing.  By looking for Natalee, he was able to map the ocean for free.

6.  Natalee was found in the end of December.  Oh no, what can he do?  He can't keep mapping the ocean floor for free because he just found the missing American woman.  So, the trap contents were turned over to ALE, nothing was ever in that trap. and he continued to search for Natalee and map for oil for another 6 to 8 weeks -at very little expense to himself.


SS ... your overview of the probable scenario is concise but ... says it all.

Thanks

Janet


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: wreck on December 03, 2008, 11:14:17 PM
So is there a consensus that Natalee's remains were in that cage?  If so, Joran contacting Greta and implicating his father in the human trafficking scenario, knowing that Aruba had already taken care of the evidence, only makes sense if Joran was just looking for money.  Or, if Joran was setting up an alibi for not knowing that Natalee was dumped in the ocean. Which makes no sense for him to tell Greta eight hours after the interview that his new story was a lie.

If Greta was right in asking Joran if the 'recorded calls between him and his father' occurred in January, that time frame would match up with the activities surrounding the cleaning of the cage.  Was that a guess by Greta, or is that what Joran told her before the sitdown interview?  Seems like an odd coincidence to me.

Oh, OK. I can't take it anymore, so I'll just ask. Please be gentle with the stupid mod that hasn't properly kept up.........

If Natalee's remains were in the cage, why didn't they bring them up and announce to the world, "WE FOUND HER!"

Tim was there when they found the cage. I saw him. Didn't I?

Remember now.................be kind to animals and fools! Thank you very much, loyal monkeys.  ::MonkeyRoll::




OK CBB and it's because you makes us such beautiful avitars.   ::MonkeyHaHa::

1.  Silvetti's businesses were in trouble.  He wanted to start new businesses with oil and an oil pipeline from Aruba to Chavez in Colombia.  He needed money.
2.  He illegally sold off his shares of stock and that is why the SEC is after him.
3.  Before he started his new oil business, he needed to have a geological scan of the ocean floor.  Doing those scans costs lots of money.
4.  He agreed to volunteer his ship, crew, and equipment to search for a missing American woman in the same area.  He scans the ocean floor looking for Natalee, but really he's doing oil work.
5.  Most of his expenses for the Persistence search were written off on his corporate tax returns because it was charity work and a donation that he was doing.  By looking for Natalee, he was able to map the ocean for free.
6.  Natalee was found in the end of December.  Oh no, what can he do?  He can't keep mapping the ocean floor for free because he just found the missing American woman.  So, the trap contents were turned over to ALE, nothing was ever in that trap. and he continued to search for Natalee and map for oil for another 6 to 8 weeks -at very little expense to himself.
That sounds perfect,  but where are the remains now????
with ALE  ::MonkeyNoNo::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on December 03, 2008, 11:14:23 PM
OMG!!!

I'm speechless!!!

OMG!!!

Thank you, SS, Magnolia, and keepthefaith, and all who put it in a nutshell for me.

OMG!!!

 ::MonkeyShocked:: ::MonkeyShocked:: ::MonkeyShocked:: ::MonkeyShocked:: ::MonkeyShocked:: ::MonkeyShocked::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: SS on December 03, 2008, 11:14:49 PM
From Janet:

I can only assume that the Persistence undertaking was exactly what Private Eye claimed ... a joint endeavor with ALE to locate evidence to allow it to be destroyed.  The game was fixed but Tim Miller and ... in the beginning ... Kyle were pawns in that game.

******************

Janet - I think you are absolutely correct.  Remember Kermit told us that Kyle first came to Kermit with all of the information and photographs last Spring because he wanted Beth and the FBI to know what was found in the fish cage. Then, Kyle made a really bad choice and never went to Beth or the FBI.  He chose to play the other game instead.  It's all about character and integrity.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Keepthefaith on December 03, 2008, 11:15:07 PM
OK...I'll try this one.
They were not really there to look for Natalee, but to map
the ocean between Aruba and Venezuela.
They found the cage early Christmas morning.  Tim Miller
and ABC were on the boat at the time.
They sent Tim and Dave on the false lead to Costa Rica to
get Tim off the boat.  ABC went home.
They say that they did not dive on the cage until Jan7th
when the Aruban divers went down from their boat and
retrieved all the evidence to their boat.  Nobody objected.
There are pictures here of all the evidence in plastic bags.
Silvetti and Scheafer didn't want the contents of the trap known
because they wanted to continue with their mapping project
under the guise of hunting for Natalee.


So do we know that ALE even has the evidence or does one of the grave robbers potentially have the contents???Just a thought...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Lifesong on December 03, 2008, 11:18:22 PM

I think its safe to say that the evidence from the cage has been destroyed.  I don't imagine it'll ever turn up.  All that's left of it now are the pictures.

Can't the FBI supoena the rover's videotape of the evidence recovery dive from Silvetti?



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: wreck on December 03, 2008, 11:19:23 PM
OK...I'll try this one.
They were not really there to look for Natalee, but to map
the ocean between Aruba and Venezuela.
They found the cage early Christmas morning.  Tim Miller
and ABC were on the boat at the time.
They sent Tim and Dave on the false lead to Costa Rica to
get Tim off the boat.  ABC went home.
They say that they did not dive on the cage until Jan7th
when the Aruban divers went down from their boat and
retrieved all the evidence to their boat.  Nobody objected.
There are pictures here of all the evidence in plastic bags.
Silvetti and Scheafer didn't want the contents of the trap known
because they wanted to continue with their mapping project
under the guise of hunting for Natalee.


So do we know that ALE even has the evidence or does one of the grave robbers potentially have the contents???Just a thought...
Well, isn't the date of the ROV pics of the cage with "bagged" evidence dated on Jan. 7th? That was when ALE collected the evidence. I would assume ALE has it all -- but who knows for sure????


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on December 03, 2008, 11:21:03 PM
We do have pictures. I clearly remember a video of Tim looking at the cage and divers going down to have a closer look. They indicated it wasn't Natalee. I know I saw that! Does anyone else remember it?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on December 03, 2008, 11:23:30 PM
OK...I'll try this one.
They were not really there to look for Natalee, but to map
the ocean between Aruba and Venezuela.
They found the cage early Christmas morning.  Tim Miller
and ABC were on the boat at the time.
They sent Tim and Dave on the false lead to Costa Rica to
get Tim off the boat.  ABC went home.
They say that they did not dive on the cage until Jan7th
when the Aruban divers went down from their boat and
retrieved all the evidence to their boat.  Nobody objected.
There are pictures here of all the evidence in plastic bags.
Silvetti and Scheafer didn't want the contents of the trap known
because they wanted to continue with their mapping project
under the guise of hunting for Natalee.


So do we know that ALE even has the evidence or does one of the grave robbers potentially have the contents???Just a thought...
Well, isn't the date of the ROV pics of the cage with "bagged" evidence dated on Jan. 7th? That was when ALE collected the evidence. I would assume ALE has it all -- but who knows for sure????

Pics of bags with evidence dated 1/7/08....we haven't seen divers photographed on that date, have we??  If the ROV was taking video or pics, there should be more, imo.... OE mentioned the boat on the trap site on 1/11 & 1/12.....am I over thinking?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Keepthefaith on December 03, 2008, 11:26:11 PM
OK...I'll try this one.
They were not really there to look for Natalee, but to map
the ocean between Aruba and Venezuela.
They found the cage early Christmas morning.  Tim Miller
and ABC were on the boat at the time.
They sent Tim and Dave on the false lead to Costa Rica to
get Tim off the boat.  ABC went home.
They say that they did not dive on the cage until Jan7th
when the Aruban divers went down from their boat and
retrieved all the evidence to their boat.  Nobody objected.
There are pictures here of all the evidence in plastic bags.
Silvetti and Scheafer didn't want the contents of the trap known
because they wanted to continue with their mapping project
under the guise of hunting for Natalee.


So do we know that ALE even has the evidence or does one of the grave robbers potentially have the contents???Just a thought...
Well, isn't the date of the ROV pics of the cage with "bagged" evidence dated on Jan. 7th? That was when ALE collected the evidence. I would assume ALE has it all -- but who knows for sure????

Appreciate the clarifications Wreck.My brain is spinnin.Slow down.LOL


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: SS on December 03, 2008, 11:26:28 PM
OK...I'll try this one.
They were not really there to look for Natalee, but to map
the ocean between Aruba and Venezuela.
They found the cage early Christmas morning.  Tim Miller
and ABC were on the boat at the time.
They sent Tim and Dave on the false lead to Costa Rica to
get Tim off the boat.  ABC went home.
They say that they did not dive on the cage until Jan7th
when the Aruban divers went down from their boat and
retrieved all the evidence to their boat.  Nobody objected.
There are pictures here of all the evidence in plastic bags.
Silvetti and Scheafer didn't want the contents of the trap known
because they wanted to continue with their mapping project
under the guise of hunting for Natalee.




You got it Mags!!!

There are a few things... ABC didn't do their filming until later in January.  By the time they arrived there was an empty cage, if it was even the same cage.  Nobody was there on Christmas morning except the crew.  Also, ALE did not know that Eduardo Mansur and the other divers were being filmed.  The ROV went down with them, but the divers didn't realize that the video was turned on.  ALE didn't know about these photograph, either.  I'll bet Mos just soiled his undergarments.


Now, let's complicate things even more.  What if the theory by Caps that Natalee is in the Masonic cemetery is true.  Carpe figured out that if Natalee is in the cemetery, she is probably in the crypt of a woman named Jalitza Wever.  Jalitza looks like Natalee.  Is it possible that Jalitza Wever is in the cage and Natalee is in the crypt?  How will we know since the Persisitence crew gave the contents of the trap to ALE?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Lifesong on December 03, 2008, 11:26:37 PM

Copied from Tamikosmom's post a couple of pages back:

Quote
Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #897 on: Today at 03:02:28 AM »

Kyle: “I did not feel the same and we had a major difference in opinion. He [John Silvetti] was the one who never pressed ALE to be completely open with us with the trap evidence. I would have forced them to. However, John was the one paying my invoices so I was forced to sit back and hope for the best.”

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564753;topicseen#msg564753


So..we now know that Kyle was NOT a volunteer.  Am I the only one that thought he was?  Was Silvetti paid by TES?  Has that ever even been asked?



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Magnolia on December 03, 2008, 11:26:38 PM
OK...I'll try this one.
They were not really there to look for Natalee, but to map
the ocean between Aruba and Venezuela.
They found the cage early Christmas morning.  Tim Miller
and ABC were on the boat at the time.
They sent Tim and Dave on the false lead to Costa Rica to
get Tim off the boat.  ABC went home.
They say that they did not dive on the cage until Jan7th
when the Aruban divers went down from their boat and
retrieved all the evidence to their boat.  Nobody objected.
There are pictures here of all the evidence in plastic bags.
Silvetti and Scheafer didn't want the contents of the trap known
because they wanted to continue with their mapping project
under the guise of hunting for Natalee.


So do we know that ALE even has the evidence or does one of the grave robbers potentially have the contents???Just a thought...

I have had the same thoughts.  Maybe ALE didn't get the right
evidence.  Those bags do not look like REAL evidence bags
There are no imprinted labels on the side of them.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: billb's daughter on December 03, 2008, 11:26:57 PM
So is there a consensus that Natalee's remains were in that cage?  If so, Joran contacting Greta and implicating his father in the human trafficking scenario, knowing that Aruba had already taken care of the evidence, only makes sense if Joran was just looking for money.  Or, if Joran was setting up an alibi for not knowing that Natalee was dumped in the ocean. Which makes no sense for him to tell Greta eight hours after the interview that his new story was a lie.

If Greta was right in asking Joran if the 'recorded calls between him and his father' occurred in January, that time frame would match up with the activities surrounding the cleaning of the cage.  Was that a guess by Greta, or is that what Joran told her before the sitdown interview?  Seems like an odd coincidence to me.

Oh, OK. I can't take it anymore, so I'll just ask. Please be gentle with the stupid mod that hasn't properly kept up.........

If Natalee's remains were in the cage, why didn't they bring them up and announce to the world, "WE FOUND HER!"

Tim was there when they found the cage. I saw him. Didn't I?

Remember now.................be kind to animals and fools! Thank you very much, loyal monkeys.  ::MonkeyRoll::




OK CBB and it's because you makes us such beautiful avitars.   ::MonkeyHaHa::

1.  Silvetti's businesses were in trouble.  He wanted to start new businesses with oil and an oil pipeline from Aruba to Chavez in Colombia.  He needed money.
2.  He illegally sold off his shares of stock and that is why the SEC is after him.
3.  Before he started his new oil business, he needed to have a geological scan of the ocean floor.  Doing those scans costs lots of money.
4.  He agreed to volunteer his ship, crew, and equipment to search for a missing American woman in the same area.  He scans the ocean floor looking for Natalee, but really he's doing oil work.
5.  Most of his expenses for the Persistence search were written off on his corporate tax returns because it was charity work and a donation that he was doing.  By looking for Natalee, he was able to map the ocean for free.
6.  Natalee was found in the end of December.  Oh no, what can he do?  He can't keep mapping the ocean floor for free because he just found the missing American woman.  So, the trap contents were turned over to ALE, nothing was ever in that trap. and he continued to search for Natalee and map for oil for another 6 to 8 weeks -at very little expense to himself.
I'm always impressed with the depth of experience/investigating skills/understanding/dedication that Monkeys bring in seeking the truth for Natalee and her family!
This pretty much sums up the last few weeks of postings by keeping the KISS principle forefront in analytical processing.
There are some serious implications in the calling out of Persistence/OE and CAPS and Hotshot (and others) if you believe Kermit has the big picture truth (I do), but at any rate....the point is still to find out the  truth surrounding the disappearance of Natalee. Keep charging Monkeys! V/r,billb


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: wreck on December 03, 2008, 11:27:49 PM
OK...I'll try this one.
They were not really there to look for Natalee, but to map
the ocean between Aruba and Venezuela.
They found the cage early Christmas morning.  Tim Miller
and ABC were on the boat at the time.
They sent Tim and Dave on the false lead to Costa Rica to
get Tim off the boat.  ABC went home.
They say that they did not dive on the cage until Jan7th
when the Aruban divers went down from their boat and
retrieved all the evidence to their boat.  Nobody objected.
There are pictures here of all the evidence in plastic bags.
Silvetti and Scheafer didn't want the contents of the trap known
because they wanted to continue with their mapping project
under the guise of hunting for Natalee.


So do we know that ALE even has the evidence or does one of the grave robbers potentially have the contents???Just a thought...
Well, isn't the date of the ROV pics of the cage with "bagged" evidence dated on Jan. 7th? That was when ALE collected the evidence. I would assume ALE has it all -- but who knows for sure????

Pics of bags with evidence dated 1/7/08....we haven't seen divers photographed on that date, have we??  If the ROV was taking video or pics, there should be more, imo.... OE mentioned the boat on the trap site on 1/11 & 1/12.....am I over thinking?
Not at all -- I forgot the "Panter" was there on the 11th and 12th. Anything could have happened between 1/7 and 1/12!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on December 03, 2008, 11:27:56 PM
No pics of the items being bagged....no pictures of the items being brought up...... ::MonkeyConfused::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Tamikosmom on December 03, 2008, 11:28:09 PM
So is there a consensus that Natalee's remains were in that cage?  If so, Joran contacting Greta and implicating his father in the human trafficking scenario, knowing that Aruba had already taken care of the evidence, only makes sense if Joran was just looking for money.  Or, if Joran was setting up an alibi for not knowing that Natalee was dumped in the ocean. Which makes no sense for him to tell Greta eight hours after the interview that his new story was a lie.

If Greta was right in asking Joran if the 'recorded calls between him and his father' occurred in January, that time frame would match up with the activities surrounding the cleaning of the cage.  Was that a guess by Greta, or is that what Joran told her before the sitdown interview?  Seems like an odd coincidence to me.

Oh, OK. I can't take it anymore, so I'll just ask. Please be gentle with the stupid mod that hasn't properly kept up.........

If Natalee's remains were in the cage, why didn't they bring them up and announce to the world, "WE FOUND HER!"

Tim was there when they found the cage. I saw him. Didn't I?

Remember now.................be kind to animals and fools! Thank you very much, loyal monkeys.  ::MonkeyRoll::

OK CBB and it's because you makes us such beautiful avitars.   ::MonkeyHaHa::

1.  Silvetti's businesses were in trouble.  He wanted to start new businesses with oil and an oil pipeline from Aruba to Chavez in Colombia.  He needed money.
2.  He illegally sold off his shares of stock and that is why the SEC is after him.
3.  Before he started his new oil business, he needed to have a geological scan of the ocean floor.  Doing those scans costs lots of money.
4.  He agreed to volunteer his ship, crew, and equipment to search for a missing American woman in the same area.  He scans the ocean floor looking for Natalee, but really he's doing oil work.
5.  Most of his expenses for the Persistence search were written off on his corporate tax returns because it was charity work and a donation that he was doing.  By looking for Natalee, he was able to map the ocean for free.
6.  Natalee was found in the end of December.  Oh no, what can he do?  He can't keep mapping the ocean floor for free because he just found the missing American woman.  So, the trap contents were turned over to ALE, nothing was ever in that trap. and he continued to search for Natalee and map for oil for another 6 to 8 weeks -at very little expense to himself.
That sounds perfect,  but where are the remains now????

In that bottomless drawer in the Aruban Prosecutor's office where all the other Natalee Holloway evidence and witness statements are filed.

Janet



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: WhiskeyGirl on December 03, 2008, 11:28:34 PM
So is there a consensus that Natalee's remains were in that cage?  If so, Joran contacting Greta and implicating his father in the human trafficking scenario, knowing that Aruba had already taken care of the evidence, only makes sense if Joran was just looking for money.  Or, if Joran was setting up an alibi for not knowing that Natalee was dumped in the ocean. Which makes no sense for him to tell Greta eight hours after the interview that his new story was a lie.

If Greta was right in asking Joran if the 'recorded calls between him and his father' occurred in January, that time frame would match up with the activities surrounding the cleaning of the cage.  Was that a guess by Greta, or is that what Joran told her before the sitdown interview?  Seems like an odd coincidence to me.

I tend to focus on what the stories do for Joran.  IMHO they ensure that HE is not the last person known to be with a person that turns up dead.  


Dropped her at the HI, not dead yet.  Security guard witness.

Left her on the beach, not dead yet.  Black couple witnesses, other couples.

She was shaking, it didn't look good, not dead yet.  So, I called a friend with a boat instead of 911.

She was drunk, I sold her for some pizza and beer money, maybe like $10,000 and watched her go away on a boat, not dead yet.  She was making noises when she left, not dead yet.


Maybe JVDS didn't realize that human trafficking is a bad thing?  Maybe he grew up in a place where this deception/practice is common?

From the Aruba perspective, who could be in that trap?  Amy Bradley?  Max DeVries?  Missing prision guard?  Natalee Holloway?  Some unknown unfortunate?

Who is Joran selling these girls to?  

How long has it taken to get DNA or any lab results back from the NFI in this case?  IIRC, I read that the NFI has long waiting lists for any case.  I seem to remember some posters suggesting/asking to know why Natalee should receive special attention and move to the beginning of the NFI line.  Sometimes, I think, one might wait forever.
 

If someone had limited time/money and two choices, what would they choose to do?  Let the money run out while waiting for results from the NFI, and make no additional progress?  Or, spend the remaining funds searching for a missing person?  

A third factor is the weather.  IIRC, the weather had started to change and made searching more difficult.  


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Keepthefaith on December 03, 2008, 11:31:13 PM
OK...I'll try this one.
They were not really there to look for Natalee, but to map
the ocean between Aruba and Venezuela.
They found the cage early Christmas morning.  Tim Miller
and ABC were on the boat at the time.
They sent Tim and Dave on the false lead to Costa Rica to
get Tim off the boat.  ABC went home.
They say that they did not dive on the cage until Jan7th
when the Aruban divers went down from their boat and
retrieved all the evidence to their boat.  Nobody objected.
There are pictures here of all the evidence in plastic bags.
Silvetti and Scheafer didn't want the contents of the trap known
because they wanted to continue with their mapping project
under the guise of hunting for Natalee.


So do we know that ALE even has the evidence or does one of the grave robbers potentially have the contents???Just a thought...
Well, isn't the date of the ROV pics of the cage with "bagged" evidence dated on Jan. 7th? That was when ALE collected the evidence. I would assume ALE has it all -- but who knows for sure????

Pics of bags with evidence dated 1/7/08....we haven't seen divers photographed on that date, have we??  If the ROV was taking video or pics, there should be more, imo.... OE mentioned the boat on the trap site on 1/11 & 1/12.....am I over thinking?

At what time were the pictures taken??What time did the ALE dive??May be over thinking as well...Is it possible the grave robbers were going to use the pictures in the future for leverage???Just brainstorming.KERMIT...HELP....


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Keepthefaith on December 03, 2008, 11:36:34 PM
So is there a consensus that Natalee's remains were in that cage?  If so, Joran contacting Greta and implicating his father in the human trafficking scenario, knowing that Aruba had already taken care of the evidence, only makes sense if Joran was just looking for money.  Or, if Joran was setting up an alibi for not knowing that Natalee was dumped in the ocean. Which makes no sense for him to tell Greta eight hours after the interview that his new story was a lie.

If Greta was right in asking Joran if the 'recorded calls between him and his father' occurred in January, that time frame would match up with the activities surrounding the cleaning of the cage.  Was that a guess by Greta, or is that what Joran told her before the sitdown interview?  Seems like an odd coincidence to me.

Oh, OK. I can't take it anymore, so I'll just ask. Please be gentle with the stupid mod that hasn't properly kept up.........

If Natalee's remains were in the cage, why didn't they bring them up and announce to the world, "WE FOUND HER!"

Tim was there when they found the cage. I saw him. Didn't I?

Remember now.................be kind to animals and fools! Thank you very much, loyal monkeys.  ::MonkeyRoll::




OK CBB and it's because you makes us such beautiful avitars.   ::MonkeyHaHa::

1.  Silvetti's businesses were in trouble.  He wanted to start new businesses with oil and an oil pipeline from Aruba to Chavez in Colombia.  He needed money.
2.  He illegally sold off his shares of stock and that is why the SEC is after him.
3.  Before he started his new oil business, he needed to have a geological scan of the ocean floor.  Doing those scans costs lots of money.
4.  He agreed to volunteer his ship, crew, and equipment to search for a missing American woman in the same area.  He scans the ocean floor looking for Natalee, but really he's doing oil work.
5.  Most of his expenses for the Persistence search were written off on his corporate tax returns because it was charity work and a donation that he was doing.  By looking for Natalee, he was able to map the ocean for free.
6.  Natalee was found in the end of December.  Oh no, what can he do?  He can't keep mapping the ocean floor for free because he just found the missing American woman.  So, the trap contents were turned over to ALE, nothing was ever in that trap. and he continued to search for Natalee and map for oil for another 6 to 8 weeks -at very little expense to himself.
I'm always impressed with the depth of experience/investigating skills/understanding/dedication that Monkeys bring in seeking the truth for Natalee and her family!
This pretty much sums up the last few weeks of postings by keeping the KISS principle forefront in analytical processing.
There are some serious implications in the calling out of Persistence/OE and CAPS and Hotshot (and others) if you believe Kermit has the big picture truth (I do), but at any rate....the point is still to find out the  truth surrounding the disappearance of Natalee. Keep charging Monkeys! V/r,billb


This is all about the TRUTH.Nothing more or nothing less.Whoever get's there first,if at all,God Bless their SOUL...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: truthseeker2 on December 03, 2008, 11:41:45 PM
I can buy into Silvetti's desire to map for oil scenario.  The thing i don't understand is why would they take those pictures of the evidence that they knew they wanted to destroy.  Who really took those pics of the evidence bags and where were the Aruban divers when those were taken?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: SS on December 03, 2008, 11:43:47 PM
There are pictures of this stuff.  You have to look at the dates in the upper right corner.

December 29th - the original photographs of the trap were taken.  They are the ones with the skull and contents at a distance.

January 7th - the date Eduardo and the divers put everything in bags and took it back to ALE.  Those are the up-close pictures of the contents.

Kermit has more pictures than we have seen.  Kermit posted one with some ALE divers next to the trap just the other day, but I have no idea where it is.

We don't have pictures of Coast Guard Panter on January 11th and 12th.  We thought the ship was there to lift the cage, but Caps says the cage is still there.  Who knows what the Dutch were doing out there????


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Tamikosmom on December 03, 2008, 11:43:59 PM

Copied from Tamikosmom's post a couple of pages back:

Quote
Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #897 on: Today at 03:02:28 AM »

Kyle: “I did not feel the same and we had a major difference in opinion. He [John Silvetti] was the one who never pressed ALE to be completely open with us with the trap evidence. I would have forced them to. However, John was the one paying my invoices so I was forced to sit back and hope for the best.”

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564753;topicseen#msg564753


So..we now know that Kyle was NOT a volunteer.  Am I the only one that thought he was?  Was Silvetti paid by TES?  Has that ever even been asked?



Non-profit does not imply that wages are not paid.  Non-profit just means that all funds stay within that charity/ministry to support its objective.

Kyle is a professional in his field of expertise.  I believe it makes sense that he would be paid.

The ministries within our church have many wonderful volunteers but ... the turnover of volunteers are very high.  Therefore ... many workers are paid ... paid for their on-going committment and ... for their professional expertise.  Potential donors to our church ministers are afforded a financial statement upon request.

Janet


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: cajun miracle on December 03, 2008, 11:45:07 PM
No pics of the items being bagged....no pictures of the items being brought up...... ::MonkeyConfused::

NO pictures that we know of, yet.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: wreck on December 03, 2008, 11:45:52 PM
I can buy into Silvetti's desire to map for oil scenario.  The thing i don't understand is why would they take those pictures of the evidence that they knew they wanted to destroy.  Who really took those pics of the evidence bags and where were the Aruban divers when those were taken?
If Kyle was still a "pawn" at that time, they would have to go through the motions of "making a concerted effort". Kyle said that Silvetti destroyed "everything Natalee" from the Persistence when he arrived home.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on December 03, 2008, 11:46:51 PM
OK...I'll try this one.
They were not really there to look for Natalee, but to map
the ocean between Aruba and Venezuela.
They found the cage early Christmas morning.  Tim Miller
and ABC were on the boat at the time.
They sent Tim and Dave on the false lead to Costa Rica to
get Tim off the boat.  ABC went home.
They say that they did not dive on the cage until Jan7th
when the Aruban divers went down from their boat and
retrieved all the evidence to their boat.  Nobody objected.
There are pictures here of all the evidence in plastic bags.
Silvetti and Scheafer didn't want the contents of the trap known
because they wanted to continue with their mapping project
under the guise of hunting for Natalee.


So do we know that ALE even has the evidence or does one of the grave robbers potentially have the contents???Just a thought...
Well, isn't the date of the ROV pics of the cage with "bagged" evidence dated on Jan. 7th? That was when ALE collected the evidence. I would assume ALE has it all -- but who knows for sure????

Pics of bags with evidence dated 1/7/08....we haven't seen divers photographed on that date, have we??  If the ROV was taking video or pics, there should be more, imo.... OE mentioned the boat on the trap site on 1/11 & 1/12.....am I over thinking?

At what time were the pictures taken??What time did the ALE dive??May be over thinking as well...Is it possible the grave robbers were going to use the pictures in the future for leverage???Just brainstorming.KERMIT...HELP....

The pics from 1/7/08 that we've seen are from around 3:30pm to 3:40pm....nothing before or after, as far as I know.   If Kermit thinks that they didn't know the camera was on....then maybe someone has the footage/prints....someone on the boat....

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4173.400


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Keepthefaith on December 03, 2008, 11:47:31 PM
There are pictures of this stuff.  You have to look at the dates in the upper right corner.

December 29th - the original photographs of the trap were taken.  They are the ones with the skull and contents at a distance.

January 7th - the date Eduardo and the divers put everything in bags and took it back to ALE.  Those are the up-close pictures of the contents.

Kermit has more pictures than we have seen.  Kermit posted one with some ALE divers next to the trap just the other day, but I have no idea where it is.

We don't have pictures of Coast Guard Panter on January 11th and 12th.  We thought the ship was there to lift the cage, but Caps says the cage is still there.  Who knows what the Dutch were doing out there????

So it is clear that Eduardo and the ALE divers bagged and took the evidence??Correct SS..Just seems weird that such great pictures with no divers in the picture.Thanx for bringin it forward!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: SS on December 03, 2008, 11:50:49 PM
I can buy into Silvetti's desire to map for oil scenario.  The thing i don't understand is why would they take those pictures of the evidence that they knew they wanted to destroy.  Who really took those pics of the evidence bags and where were the Aruban divers when those were taken?




According to Kermit, Louis Schafer later sold the photographs to someone who is making a documentary film.  According to Kermit, Kyle attempted to sell them to a few networks and Peter de Vries.  They were not turned over to the FBI or Beth by the Persistence crew.

The pictures of the evidence in the large bag were taken by the ROV.  The ROV has bright lights and also does filming.  The ROV was down ther with the ALE divers, but they didn't know that it was filming the cage contents in the bags.  I am sure that there are hours of film from the ROV.  We have only seen a few pictires.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: cajun miracle on December 03, 2008, 11:51:51 PM
OK...I'll try this one.
They were not really there to look for Natalee, but to map
the ocean between Aruba and Venezuela.
They found the cage early Christmas morning.  Tim Miller
and ABC were on the boat at the time.
They sent Tim and Dave on the false lead to Costa Rica to
get Tim off the boat.  ABC went home.
They say that they did not dive on the cage until Jan7th
when the Aruban divers went down from their boat and
retrieved all the evidence to their boat.  Nobody objected.
There are pictures here of all the evidence in plastic bags.
Silvetti and Scheafer didn't want the contents of the trap known
because they wanted to continue with their mapping project
under the guise of hunting for Natalee.


So do we know that ALE even has the evidence or does one of the grave robbers potentially have the contents???Just a thought...
Well, isn't the date of the ROV pics of the cage with "bagged" evidence dated on Jan. 7th? That was when ALE collected the evidence. I would assume ALE has it all -- but who knows for sure????

Pics of bags with evidence dated 1/7/08....we haven't seen divers photographed on that date, have we??  If the ROV was taking video or pics, there should be more, imo.... OE mentioned the boat on the trap site on 1/11 & 1/12.....am I over thinking?

At what time were the pictures taken??What time did the ALE dive??May be over thinking as well...Is it possible the grave robbers were going to use the pictures in the future for leverage???Just brainstorming.KERMIT...HELP....

The pics from 1/7/08 that we've seen are from around 3:30pm to 3:40pm....nothing before or after, as far as I know.   If Kermit thinks that they didn't know the camera was on....then maybe someone has the footage/prints....someone on the boat....

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4173.400


I think that there are other pictures but who has them????


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Tamikosmom on December 03, 2008, 11:52:15 PM
There are pictures of this stuff.  You have to look at the dates in the upper right corner.

December 29th - the original photographs of the trap were taken.  They are the ones with the skull and contents at a distance.

January 7th - the date Eduardo and the divers put everything in bags and took it back to ALE.  Those are the up-close pictures of the contents.

Kermit has more pictures than we have seen.  Kermit posted one with some ALE divers next to the trap just the other day, but I have no idea where it is.

We don't have pictures of Coast Guard Panter on January 11th and 12th.  We thought the ship was there to lift the cage, but Caps says the cage is still there.  Who knows what the Dutch were doing out there????

So it is clear that Eduardo and the ALE divers bagged and took the evidence??Correct SS..Just seems weird that such great pictures with no divers in the picture.Thanx for bringin it forward!

 ::MonkeyShocked::

A picture is beginning to emerge regarding the players in "fixed game" and ... I do not like it.

Janet


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Keepthefaith on December 03, 2008, 11:53:01 PM
I can buy into Silvetti's desire to map for oil scenario.  The thing i don't understand is why would they take those pictures of the evidence that they knew they wanted to destroy.  Who really took those pics of the evidence bags and where were the Aruban divers when those were taken?




According to Kermit, Louis Schafer later sold the photographs to someone who is making a documentary film.  According to Kermit, Kyle attempted to sell them to a few networks and Peter de Vries.  They were not turned over to the FBI or Beth by the Persistence crew.

The pictures of the evidence in the large bag were taken by the ROV.  The ROV has bright lights and also does filming.  The ROV was down ther with the ALE divers, but they didn't know that it was filming the cage contents in the bags.  I am sure that there are hours of film from the ROV.  We have only seen a few pictires.

Bring this forward for ya Cajun..


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: cajun miracle on December 03, 2008, 11:54:30 PM
I can buy into Silvetti's desire to map for oil scenario.  The thing i don't understand is why would they take those pictures of the evidence that they knew they wanted to destroy.  Who really took those pics of the evidence bags and where were the Aruban divers when those were taken?




According to Kermit, Louis Schafer later sold the photographs to someone who is making a documentary film.  According to Kermit, Kyle attempted to sell them to a few networks and Peter de Vries.  They were not turned over to the FBI or Beth by the Persistence crew.

The pictures of the evidence in the large bag were taken by the ROV.  The ROV has bright lights and also does filming.  The ROV was down ther with the ALE divers, but they didn't know that it was filming the cage contents in the bags.  I am sure that there are hours of film from the ROV.  We have only seen a few pictires.

Bring this forward for ya Cajun..

Do we know who is making this documentary?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Tamikosmom on December 03, 2008, 11:56:02 PM
I can buy into Silvetti's desire to map for oil scenario.  The thing i don't understand is why would they take those pictures of the evidence that they knew they wanted to destroy.  Who really took those pics of the evidence bags and where were the Aruban divers when those were taken?




According to Kermit, Louis Schafer later sold the photographs to someone who is making a documentary film.  According to Kermit, Kyle attempted to sell them to a few networks and Peter de Vries.  They were not turned over to the FBI or Beth by the Persistence crew.

The pictures of the evidence in the large bag were taken by the ROV.  The ROV has bright lights and also does filming.  The ROV was down ther with the ALE divers, but they didn't know that it was filming the cage contents in the bags.  I am sure that there are hours of film from the ROV.  We have only seen a few pictires.


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #882 on: Today at 02:36:28 AM »


Kyle said: "Louis is currently working with someone who I do not know to put together some documentary on the case, the way it was handled, and what happened during the search. I learned this from Tim T. yesterday. Louis was sold on the idea that it will make him a lot of money.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564701;topicseen#msg564701


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #779 11/24/08 -
« Reply #532 on: November 25, 2008, 07:06:45 PM »


From Kyle: May 8, 2008: "I've talked with Peter Shouten numerous times back in February. He hasn't seen anything but knows about the blue fabrics. DeVries and Endemol was interested in purchasing the ROV footage and I was working between them, ABC, and CBS to strike a deal."

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4179.msg557660#msg557660


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: WhiskeyGirl on December 03, 2008, 11:57:53 PM
My comments in blue below -


1.  Silvetti's businesses were in trouble.  He wanted to start new businesses with oil and an oil pipeline from Aruba to Chavez in Colombia.  He needed money.

What business?  I have only seen one discussed, "J.D. Silvetti Group".  What are these other businesses?

2.  He illegally sold off his shares of stock and that is why the SEC is after him.

Who is "He"?  John Silvetti?  What stock is that?  What company?  I haven't seen this documented in the forum at SM or anywhere.  Where is it shown that the SEC is after him?

3.  Before he started his new oil business, he needed to have a geological scan of the ocean floor.  Doing those scans costs lots of money.

Didn't Kyle explain the difference between the scan Persistence did and the one needed for a pipeline or oil drilling?  It wouldn't make sense to scan around the hotels on the NW side of the island.  Valero is on the SE corner of the island.

Where does this come from?  This doesn't make sense to me.


4.  He agreed to volunteer his ship, crew, and equipment to search for a missing American woman in the same area.  He scans the ocean floor looking for Natalee, but really he's doing oil work.

Aruba is planning to put up oil rigs and pipe oil through the beaches?  Would this have a negative effect on the tourism business?

It is difficult for me to believe that oil will replace tourism.  Also, that someone, either Aruba, Hugo, or Valero has not already scanned for oil in the past.  Doesn't Aruba have a proactive environmental attitude? 


5.  Most of his expenses for the Persistence search were written off on his corporate tax returns because it was charity work and a donation that he was doing.  By looking for Natalee, he was able to map the ocean for free.

Did he file taxes for 2008 already?  Did you do some kind of FOI for the J.D. Silvetti Group?  In order to 'write-off' does he actually have to make a profit?  If he is making a profit, how much financial problem could the company have?  Which companies?

Who are the officers of this company?  Who's on the board?  How much does their stock trade for?  Lots of sales lately?


6.  Natalee was found in the end of December.  Oh no, what can he do?  He can't keep mapping the ocean floor for free because he just found the missing American woman.  So, the trap contents were turned over to ALE, nothing was ever in that trap. and he continued to search for Natalee and map for oil for another 6 to 8 weeks -at very little expense to himself.

Did he have an instant DNA test to know for sure that was Natalee?  Maybe he could see a drivers license with the ROV data?  The great unanswered question - HOW DID HE KNOW FOR SURE IF THAT WAS NATALEE AND NOT SOMEONE ELSE?

It seems to me that if he wanted to map the ocean for free, they would not have constructed a cage/trap based on descriptions given by the fishermen.  The trap enabled them to select better targets, or so I read.



SS ... your overview of the probable scenario is concise but ... says it all.

Thanks

Janet

To many unanswered questions, nothing at the Natalee Freebird site and no corroborating links for most of the John Silvetti stuff.  A sentence here or there from various posters.  No supporting documentation.

jmho


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: billb's daughter on December 03, 2008, 11:58:00 PM
I can buy into Silvetti's desire to map for oil scenario.  The thing i don't understand is why would they take those pictures of the evidence that they knew they wanted to destroy.  Who really took those pics of the evidence bags and where were the Aruban divers when those were taken?
If we buy into the idea that John S. was always or sometime during the search turned toward greed, and allow that the pics were taken unknowingly (not likely though-someone knew) and only were known to John S after the fact...AND, John S. was able to suppress his immediate crew from exposing the pics - then he alone struck a deal with ALE to  do whatever with the salvaged evidence. If greed was the goal, John S. would be better served if the contents disappeared. Seems like kyle knew ( was he running ROV or first to see ROV pics?). Maybe someone had the ROV camera running to have leverage on ALE?
John S. ALE struck a deal? Kyle a player trying his scheme? Kermit exposure?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Magnolia on December 03, 2008, 11:58:51 PM
I have a feeling that Kyle was peddling more than just the
few pictures that we have seen.  Those few would not
be worth showing to the people he said he spoke with.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: truthseeker2 on December 03, 2008, 11:59:28 PM
So is there a consensus that Natalee's remains were in that cage?  If so, Joran contacting Greta and implicating his father in the human trafficking scenario, knowing that Aruba had already taken care of the evidence, only makes sense if Joran was just looking for money.  Or, if Joran was setting up an alibi for not knowing that Natalee was dumped in the ocean. Which makes no sense for him to tell Greta eight hours after the interview that his new story was a lie.

If Greta was right in asking Joran if the 'recorded calls between him and his father' occurred in January, that time frame would match up with the activities surrounding the cleaning of the cage.  Was that a guess by Greta, or is that what Joran told her before the sitdown interview?  Seems like an odd coincidence to me.

I tend to focus on what the stories do for Joran.  IMHO they ensure that HE is not the last person known to be with a person that turns up dead.  


Dropped her at the HI, not dead yet.  Security guard witness.

Left her on the beach, not dead yet.  Black couple witnesses, other couples.

She was shaking, it didn't look good, not dead yet.  So, I called a friend with a boat instead of 911.

She was drunk, I sold her for some pizza and beer money, maybe like $10,000 and watched her go away on a boat, not dead yet.  She was making noises when she left, not dead yet.


Maybe JVDS didn't realize that human trafficking is a bad thing?  Maybe he grew up in a place where this deception/practice is common?

From the Aruba perspective, who could be in that trap?  Amy Bradley?  Max DeVries?  Missing prision guard?  Natalee Holloway?  Some unknown unfortunate?

Who is Joran selling these girls to?  

How long has it taken to get DNA or any lab results back from the NFI in this case?  IIRC, I read that the NFI has long waiting lists for any case.  I seem to remember some posters suggesting/asking to know why Natalee should receive special attention and move to the beginning of the NFI line.  Sometimes, I think, one might wait forever.
 

If someone had limited time/money and two choices, what would they choose to do?  Let the money run out while waiting for results from the NFI, and make no additional progress?  Or, spend the remaining funds searching for a missing person?  

A third factor is the weather.  IIRC, the weather had started to change and made searching more difficult.  


It's hard for me to believe Joran did not know what was going on while the Persistance was in Aruba.  If that was Natalee and nothing was being done to arrest him by the summer he had to believe the coast was clear.  Why contact Greta?  I agree.  I to am trying to decide how that helped him in anyway.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Hotshot on December 04, 2008, 12:01:24 AM
Do ya'll reckon that Schaefer and Silvetti might be doing
a little offshore banking to hide some funds from that
SEC investigation?  That is a specialty of Croes and Tchong.

Interesting Magnolia!AS Kermit says...Follow the money.We shall follow the money no matter who it pertains to in this case.Paulus,Joran,Silvetti,Schaeffer,etc,etc..Whomever is a part of this case is a open book.JMOO
First of all "follow the money" was wayyyy in the beginning, and Silvetti was NOT even known yet.  You monkeys have to think about who is trying to con you, and why.  I guess you'll all see in the end....... 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: truthseeker2 on December 04, 2008, 12:01:57 AM
I can buy into Silvetti's desire to map for oil scenario.  The thing i don't understand is why would they take those pictures of the evidence that they knew they wanted to destroy.  Who really took those pics of the evidence bags and where were the Aruban divers when those were taken?
If Kyle was still a "pawn" at that time, they would have to go through the motions of "making a concerted effort". Kyle said that Silvetti destroyed "everything Natalee" from the Persistence when he arrived home.

Hmm.  That does make sense.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: billb's daughter on December 04, 2008, 12:02:31 AM
There are pictures of this stuff.  You have to look at the dates in the upper right corner.

December 29th - the original photographs of the trap were taken.  They are the ones with the skull and contents at a distance.

January 7th - the date Eduardo and the divers put everything in bags and took it back to ALE.  Those are the up-close pictures of the contents.

Kermit has more pictures than we have seen.  Kermit posted one with some ALE divers next to the trap just the other day, but I have no idea where it is.
Does seem staged. But for what purpose?

We don't have pictures of Coast Guard Panter on January 11th and 12th.  We thought the ship was there to lift the cage, but Caps says the cage is still there.  Who knows what the Dutch were doing out there????

So it is clear that Eduardo and the ALE divers bagged and took the evidence??Correct SS..Just seems weird that such great pictures with no divers in the picture.Thanx for bringin it forward!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on December 04, 2008, 12:03:00 AM
Kyle has videos on YouTube of the search. I just watched 2 of them, but there are more................

Before I go through them all, has anybody else done this?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: cajun miracle on December 04, 2008, 12:03:27 AM
I have a feeling that Kyle was peddling more than just the
few pictures that we have seen.  Those few would not
be worth showing to the people he said he spoke with.

Yep Magnolia. I agree.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: SS on December 04, 2008, 12:03:28 AM

Copied from Tamikosmom's post a couple of pages back:

Quote
Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #897 on: Today at 03:02:28 AM »

Kyle: “I did not feel the same and we had a major difference in opinion. He [John Silvetti] was the one who never pressed ALE to be completely open with us with the trap evidence. I would have forced them to. However, John was the one paying my invoices so I was forced to sit back and hope for the best.”

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564753;topicseen#msg564753


So..we now know that Kyle was NOT a volunteer.  Am I the only one that thought he was?  Was Silvetti paid by TES?  Has that ever even been asked?



Non-profit does not imply that wages are not paid.  Non-profit just means that all funds stay within that charity/ministry to support its objective.

Kyle is a professional in his field of expertise.  I believe it makes sense that he would be paid.

The ministries within our church have many wonderful volunteers but ... the turnover of volunteers are very high.  Therefore ... many workers are paid ... paid for their on-going committment and ... for their professional expertise.  Potential donors to our church ministers are afforded a financial statement upon request.

Janet



I think you're right Janet, and with our tax system, non-profit work would have greatly reduced the amount of corporate taxes that would have normally been paid.  So, they saved a lot of money by doing the search and so in effect, they paid themselves.  I also remember, though, that in one of his arguments with Kermit, Kyle said that he did donate part or all of his work and that the search actually cost him an additional $15,000.  I can't begin to explain how he would come up with that.  Perhaps Kyle was also reducing his personal income taxes by working for a non-profit effort or by doing work "in kind".  I have no idea on that one.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Hotshot on December 04, 2008, 12:07:37 AM
I am guessing that the lawyer must be on the prosecution side
or he wouldn't be on the call roll.

Kermit has been saying for a long time that we should
stay focused and not be diverted by the witness.

Why would anyone want to divert attention away from
the trap and the "human remains" found there?
One of those diverting is Caps, one is John Silvetti and one
is Clyde Burke, of ALE.
How can you even say CAPS is a diverter?  He has worked so hard on this case...... Kermit is making you focus on her, and its all silly, and can not be proved in any way......Its really sad that you all are fixed on that one thing that can not even be shown as any kind of proof.  Yes by the way CAPS can not keep a connection with the internet.  YES they are onto him, and yes, he is still able to help where he can.  You guys are going to look really silly in the end for downing the people like silvetti, and Kyle, and CAPS.  There must be more to do with your time then pick on the ones who actually go out of their way to help.  I do not see anyone here going out there to actually help as these people did.  And by the way Kermit, do NOT post anymore of Beths letters.........She will not be a happy camper.  She already knows whats going on with that.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: SS on December 04, 2008, 12:10:04 AM
There are pictures of this stuff.  You have to look at the dates in the upper right corner.

December 29th - the original photographs of the trap were taken.  They are the ones with the skull and contents at a distance.

January 7th - the date Eduardo and the divers put everything in bags and took it back to ALE.  Those are the up-close pictures of the contents.

Kermit has more pictures than we have seen.  Kermit posted one with some ALE divers next to the trap just the other day, but I have no idea where it is.

We don't have pictures of Coast Guard Panter on January 11th and 12th.  We thought the ship was there to lift the cage, but Caps says the cage is still there.  Who knows what the Dutch were doing out there????

So it is clear that Eduardo and the ALE divers bagged and took the evidence??Correct SS..Just seems weird that such great pictures with no divers in the picture.Thanx for bringin it forward!

 ::MonkeyShocked::

A picture is beginning to emerge regarding the players in "fixed game" and ... I do not like it.

Janet




Eduardo Mansur is the founder of Aruba Search and Rescue, a dive team.  There are pictures of Eduardo standing with Tim Trahan and Tim Miller on the Persistence.  I just don't know how far back they are.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: billb's daughter on December 04, 2008, 12:10:17 AM
There are pictures of this stuff.  You have to look at the dates in the upper right corner.

December 29th - the original photographs of the trap were taken.  They are the ones with the skull and contents at a distance.

January 7th - the date Eduardo and the divers put everything in bags and took it back to ALE.  Those are the up-close pictures of the contents.

Kermit has more pictures than we have seen.  Kermit posted one with some ALE divers next to the trap just the other day, but I have no idea where it is.
Does seem staged. But for what purpose?

We don't have pictures of Coast Guard Panter on January 11th and 12th.  We thought the ship was there to lift the cage, but Caps says the cage is still there.  Who knows what the Dutch were doing out there????

So it is clear that Eduardo and the ALE divers bagged and took the evidence??Correct SS..Just seems weird that such great pictures with no divers in the picture.Thanx for bringin it forward!
If it was staged.....why?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on December 04, 2008, 12:12:35 AM
This is it. This is what I remember. Divers went down when the cage was found in December:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qK95qsXq6Q


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on December 04, 2008, 12:15:41 AM
On the video, it says evidence from the trap was given to the FBI.

It doesn't say when or by whom.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on December 04, 2008, 12:17:13 AM
Kyle has videos on YouTube of the search. I just watched 2 of them, but there are more................

Before I go through them all, has anybody else done this?

I've watched them...they are the same as seen on the Persistence site.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: billb's daughter on December 04, 2008, 12:17:47 AM
I am guessing that the lawyer must be on the prosecution side
or he wouldn't be on the call roll.

Kermit has been saying for a long time that we should
stay focused and not be diverted by the witness.

Why would anyone want to divert attention away from
the trap and the "human remains" found there?
One of those diverting is Caps, one is John Silvetti and one
is Clyde Burke, of ALE.
How can you even say CAPS is a diverter?  He has worked so hard on this case...... Kermit is making you focus on her, and its all silly, and can not be proved in any way......Its really sad that you all are fixed on that one thing that can not even be shown as any kind of proof.  Yes by the way CAPS can not keep a connection with the internet.  YES they are onto him, and yes, he is still able to help where he can.  You guys are going to look really silly in the end for downing the people like silvetti, and Kyle, and CAPS.  There must be more to do with your time then pick on the ones who actually go out of their way to help.  I do not see anyone here going out there to actually help as these people did.  And by the way Kermit, do NOT post anymore of Beths letters.........She will not be a happy camper.  She already knows whats going on with that.
Hotshot,
I have always looked forward to your posts from the beginning, and those of CAPS and Kyle. But, the recent posts by Kermit and the interchanges btwn Kermit/CAPS/Kyle seem to weigh in favor of Kermit.
If you could be more clear on this post as to the meaning of this:
And by the way Kermit, do NOT post anymore of Beths letters.........She will not be a happy camper.  She already knows whats going on with that.
I think the innuendos (intentional or not) are really confusing.....Help me understand please.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Hotshot on December 04, 2008, 12:18:19 AM
Dont you think there is a reason behind everything? Do you really think that NO other videos of the bags being done, and brought up?  There has to be.  And Kyle didnt say Silvetti got rid of all evidence of natalee on the boat.  he said it was wiped clean.......  In other words, they are in a safe place so no other people can get to them.  Reading into things like the way some of you are is going to hurt some feelings.  just because someone goes bankrupt, or looses in stocks doesn't nessasarily mean they are going to the bad side of town.  People can be good hearted sometime, and i for one feel they are good hearted.  These people read this forum, and feelings I am sure are really going to be hurt.  i don't know what Red is feeling, but i would think he wouldn't want this nonsence going on here.  Silvetti has gone back to Aruba too do monsterat pond, and yes he met up with CAPS, because he was sent to go find him at the Persistance.  CAPS didnt even know the boat was there, or how to contact these people......It was some monkeys here who showed him the way...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Tamikosmom on December 04, 2008, 12:18:50 AM
I can buy into Silvetti's desire to map for oil scenario.  The thing i don't understand is why would they take those pictures of the evidence that they knew they wanted to destroy.  Who really took those pics of the evidence bags and where were the Aruban divers when those were taken?
If Kyle was still a "pawn" at that time, they would have to go through the motions of "making a concerted effort". Kyle said that Silvetti destroyed "everything Natalee" from the Persistence when he arrived home.

I think the process was gradual but ... I believe Kyle had clued into what was going on concerning collusion between Silvetti and the ALE when he realized that the Arubans were fully in charge of the chain of custody regarding the contents of the cage.

In the beginning ... I contend that Kyle was naive and ... truly believed that the joint Persistence/ALE search for the remains of Natalee Holloway was a mutual effort.

Janet

++++++


oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #715 1/25 -
« Reply #103 on: January 26, 2008, 12:38:25 PM »


Thought you all may find this interesting if you're willing to accept it-

To date, the Aruban police and dive team has been a tremendous help.  They've honestly done a great job. Over the last month we've established a very good working relationship based on openness and trust.  Most of the relationship success was due to getting the media out of the way and working together shoulder to shoulder over time.  We've helped each other however and whenever we can.  They've treated us with decency and respect and we have treated them as friends and allies, which they are. Most of the police and divers are new since this case started and both eager and careful to do things right.  I wish we had a month ahead of the project just to establish the relationships and trust. I know many of you would likely doubt this view, but it's based on the experiences in the field of the entire search team. I too was extremely worried, paranoid, and suspecting in the beginning.  Now, it's clear we're all working towards a common goal.  


ocean exploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #744 3/19 -
« Reply #201 on: March 19, 2008, 08:21:47 PM »


We had little option other than to have the Aruban dive division recover the samples and bring them back under their care.  Remember we are Americans working in Aruban waters, subject to their laws, invitation, and blessing.  Our hands are tied for the most part. I personally was extremely uncomfortable with the chain of custody, being that we weren't a part of it, but I was powerless to do anything about it.   The samples were photographed in detail by one Aruban diver and the other two investigated the contents of the trap, the dimensions, the rigging, and what surrounded the trap.  From the video, it looked like they did a diligent and careful job with the samples and the underwater photography.  I don't know who has these pictures, but I must assume ALE.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2721.msg366857#msg366857


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on December 04, 2008, 12:18:52 AM
This is it. This is what I remember. Divers went down when the cage was found in December:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qK95qsXq6Q

The above video is from the MSNBC story. I don't know who was filming.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Keepthefaith on December 04, 2008, 12:20:07 AM
I am guessing that the lawyer must be on the prosecution side
or he wouldn't be on the call roll.

Kermit has been saying for a long time that we should
stay focused and not be diverted by the witness.

Why would anyone want to divert attention away from
the trap and the "human remains" found there?
One of those diverting is Caps, one is John Silvetti and one
is Clyde Burke, of ALE.
How can you even say CAPS is a diverter?  He has worked so hard on this case...... Kermit is making you focus on her, and its all silly, and can not be proved in any way......Its really sad that you all are fixed on that one thing that can not even be shown as any kind of proof.  Yes by the way CAPS can not keep a connection with the internet.  YES they are onto him, and yes, he is still able to help where he can.  You guys are going to look really silly in the end for downing the people like silvetti, and Kyle, and CAPS.  There must be more to do with your time then pick on the ones who actually go out of their way to help.  I do not see anyone here going out there to actually help as these people did.  And by the way Kermit, do NOT post anymore of Beths letters.........She will not be a happy camper.  She already knows whats going on with that.

I'll look as silly as you want me as long as Natalee is brought home to rest in peace.I think Monkey's spend there time wisely. ::MonkeyCool::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: klaasend on December 04, 2008, 12:22:32 AM
Dont you think there is a reason behind everything? Do you really think that NO other videos of the bags being done, and brought up?  There has to be.  And Kyle didnt say Silvetti got rid of all evidence of natalee on the boat.  he said it was wiped clean.......  In other words, they are in a safe place so no other people can get to them.  Reading into things like the way some of you are is going to hurt some feelings.  just because someone goes bankrupt, or looses in stocks doesn't nessasarily mean they are going to the bad side of town.  People can be good hearted sometime, and i for one feel they are good hearted.  These people read this forum, and feelings I am sure are really going to be hurt.  i don't know what Red is feeling, but i would think he wouldn't want this nonsence going on here.  Silvetti has gone back to Aruba too do monsterat pond, and yes he met up with CAPS, because he was sent to go find him at the Persistance.  CAPS didnt even know the boat was there, or how to contact these people......It was some monkeys here who showed him the way...

Hotshot - I'm so baffled by all of this, I really don't know which way to turn.  That's why I haven't been contributing much.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: WhiskeyGirl on December 04, 2008, 12:22:59 AM

Copied from Tamikosmom's post a couple of pages back:

Quote
Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #897 on: Today at 03:02:28 AM »

Kyle: “I did not feel the same and we had a major difference in opinion. He [John Silvetti] was the one who never pressed ALE to be completely open with us with the trap evidence. I would have forced them to. However, John was the one paying my invoices so I was forced to sit back and hope for the best.”

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564753;topicseen#msg564753


So..we now know that Kyle was NOT a volunteer.  Am I the only one that thought he was?  Was Silvetti paid by TES?  Has that ever even been asked?



Non-profit does not imply that wages are not paid.  Non-profit just means that all funds stay within that charity/ministry to support its objective.

Kyle is a professional in his field of expertise.  I believe it makes sense that he would be paid.

The ministries within our church have many wonderful volunteers but ... the turnover of volunteers are very high.  Therefore ... many workers are paid ... paid for their on-going committment and ... for their professional expertise.  Potential donors to our church ministers are afforded a financial statement upon request.

Janet



I think you're right Janet, and with our tax system, non-profit work would have greatly reduced the amount of corporate taxes that would have normally been paid.  So, they saved a lot of money by doing the search and so in effect, they paid themselves.  I also remember, though, that in one of his arguments with Kermit, Kyle said that he did donate part or all of his work and that the search actually cost him an additional $15,000.  I can't begin to explain how he would come up with that.  Perhaps Kyle was also reducing his personal income taxes by working for a non-profit effort or by doing work "in kind".  I have no idea on that one.

No idea.  No one has provided any evidence that John Silvetti made money on the search for Natalee Holloway.  Can someone explain how that happened?

I do recall reading (Kyle wrote somewhere) that John and Louis donated the resources needed to fund the search from their own pockets.  IIRC, the search was made for a fraction of what it would have cost a commercial venture.  This was due in part by the generous contributions of many involved - time & other resources.

Somehow, I don't equate donating time and effort with 'reducing personal income taxes'.  I do a lot of volunteer work and it has NEVER reduced my income taxes.

What is a lot of money?  How much is that for the sale of some video?

Has anyone ever been able to FORCE ALE to provide any answers?  Provide good answers about any piece of evidence in this case?  Does anyone think Silvetti is a miracle worker and has that ability and refused to use it during the search for Natalee and the cage contents?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: truthseeker2 on December 04, 2008, 12:24:15 AM
This is it. This is what I remember. Divers went down when the cage was found in December:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qK95qsXq6Q

The footage of Dave tugs at the heart.  Why would someone do that?  If that was an elaborate scheme to get Tim away from Aruba...then these people are more disgusting than could have ever been imagined.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on December 04, 2008, 12:25:14 AM
Dont you think there is a reason behind everything? Do you really think that NO other videos of the bags being done, and brought up?  There has to be.  And Kyle didnt say Silvetti got rid of all evidence of natalee on the boat.  he said it was wiped clean.......  In other words, they are in a safe place so no other people can get to them.  Reading into things like the way some of you are is going to hurt some feelings.  just because someone goes bankrupt, or looses in stocks doesn't nessasarily mean they are going to the bad side of town.  People can be good hearted sometime, and i for one feel they are good hearted.  These people read this forum, and feelings I am sure are really going to be hurt.  i don't know what Red is feeling, but i would think he wouldn't want this nonsence going on here.  Silvetti has gone back to Aruba too do monsterat pond, and yes he met up with CAPS, because he was sent to go find him at the Persistance.  CAPS didnt even know the boat was there, or how to contact these people......It was some monkeys here who showed him the way...

Hotshot - I'm so baffled by all of this, I really don't know which way to turn.  That's why I haven't been contributing much.

Well, Darn, Klaas! You know more about this case than anyone I know of! How am I supposed to cut to the chase without asking you and getting an answer, hmmmmm?

Figure it out real quick, won't you?  ::MonkeyHaHa::

And then post your answer, of course!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Keepthefaith on December 04, 2008, 12:25:40 AM

Copied from Tamikosmom's post a couple of pages back:

Quote
Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #897 on: Today at 03:02:28 AM »

Kyle: “I did not feel the same and we had a major difference in opinion. He [John Silvetti] was the one who never pressed ALE to be completely open with us with the trap evidence. I would have forced them to. However, John was the one paying my invoices so I was forced to sit back and hope for the best.”

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564753;topicseen#msg564753


So..we now know that Kyle was NOT a volunteer.  Am I the only one that thought he was?  Was Silvetti paid by TES?  Has that ever even been asked?



Non-profit does not imply that wages are not paid.  Non-profit just means that all funds stay within that charity/ministry to support its objective.

Kyle is a professional in his field of expertise.  I believe it makes sense that he would be paid.

The ministries within our church have many wonderful volunteers but ... the turnover of volunteers are very high.  Therefore ... many workers are paid ... paid for their on-going committment and ... for their professional expertise.  Potential donors to our church ministers are afforded a financial statement upon request.

Janet



I think you're right Janet, and with our tax system, non-profit work would have greatly reduced the amount of corporate taxes that would have normally been paid.  So, they saved a lot of money by doing the search and so in effect, they paid themselves.  I also remember, though, that in one of his arguments with Kermit, Kyle said that he did donate part or all of his work and that the search actually cost him an additional $15,000.  I can't begin to explain how he would come up with that.  Perhaps Kyle was also reducing his personal income taxes by working for a non-profit effort or by doing work "in kind".  I have no idea on that one.

No idea.  No one has provided any evidence that John Silvetti made money on the search for Natalee Holloway.  Can someone explain how that happened?

I do recall reading (Kyle wrote somewhere) that John and Louis donated the resources needed to fund the search from their own pockets.  IIRC, the search was made for a fraction of what it would have cost a commercial venture.  This was due in part by the generous contributions of many involved - time & other resources.

Somehow, I don't equate donating time and effort with 'reducing personal income taxes'.  I do a lot of volunteer work and it has NEVER reduced my income taxes.

What is a lot of money?  How much is that for the sale of some video?

Has anyone ever been able to FORCE ALE to provide any answers?  Provide good answers about any piece of evidence in this case?  Does anyone think Silvetti is a miracle worker and has that ability and refused to use it during the search for Natalee and the cage contents?


If i'm correct i think the question being posed is how are you donating all this time and money if your going broke??Correct me if i'm wrong..Very good questions..


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Hotshot on December 04, 2008, 12:25:58 AM
I am guessing that the lawyer must be on the prosecution side
or he wouldn't be on the call roll.

Kermit has been saying for a long time that we should
stay focused and not be diverted by the witness.

Why would anyone want to divert attention away from
the trap and the "human remains" found there?
One of those diverting is Caps, one is John Silvetti and one
is Clyde Burke, of ALE.
How can you even say CAPS is a diverter?  He has worked so hard on this case...... Kermit is making you focus on her, and its all silly, and can not be proved in any way......Its really sad that you all are fixed on that one thing that can not even be shown as any kind of proof.  Yes by the way CAPS can not keep a connection with the internet.  YES they are onto him, and yes, he is still able to help where he can.  You guys are going to look really silly in the end for downing the people like silvetti, and Kyle, and CAPS.  There must be more to do with your time then pick on the ones who actually go out of their way to help.  I do not see anyone here going out there to actually help as these people did.  And by the way Kermit, do NOT post anymore of Beths letters.........She will not be a happy camper.  She already knows whats going on with that.
Hotshot,
I have always looked forward to your posts from the beginning, and those of CAPS and Kyle. But, the recent posts by Kermit and the interchanges btwn Kermit/CAPS/Kyle seem to weigh in favor of Kermit.
If you could be more clear on this post as to the meaning of this:
And by the way Kermit, do NOT post anymore of Beths letters.........She will not be a happy camper.  She already knows whats going on with that.
I think the innuendos (intentional or not) are really confusing.....Help me understand please.
Bill, I too talk with Beth, and she does not want to be posted here as to what is said in private.  Kermit asked Beth in a private letter is she wanted her to expose the corruption.......Beth thinking the corruption of Aruba......Kermit went and posted Beths reply that said sure or something to that effect....then Kermit comes out with all this outrageous stuff.  Beth wants in no way to have her personal emails on any sites....And thats as far as I am going with this.  You may have your opinions and side with Kermit, but think about this, really think about this...You really think these people went out to Aruba to scan for oil crap when they didnt even come close to Venezuela?  They left there for a reason, and if the pictures dont tell you why, I dont know what will....Persistance has what they need, and so do the FBI.  just because they are not talking doesnt mean they are not working.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: WhiskeyGirl on December 04, 2008, 12:26:47 AM
There are pictures of this stuff.  You have to look at the dates in the upper right corner.

December 29th - the original photographs of the trap were taken.  They are the ones with the skull and contents at a distance.

January 7th - the date Eduardo and the divers put everything in bags and took it back to ALE.  Those are the up-close pictures of the contents.

Kermit has more pictures than we have seen.  Kermit posted one with some ALE divers next to the trap just the other day, but I have no idea where it is.

We don't have pictures of Coast Guard Panter on January 11th and 12th.  We thought the ship was there to lift the cage, but Caps says the cage is still there.  Who knows what the Dutch were doing out there????

So it is clear that Eduardo and the ALE divers bagged and took the evidence??Correct SS..Just seems weird that such great pictures with no divers in the picture.Thanx for bringin it forward!

 ::MonkeyShocked::

A picture is beginning to emerge regarding the players in "fixed game" and ... I do not like it.

Janet




Eduardo Mansur is the founder of Aruba Search and Rescue, a dive team.  There are pictures of Eduardo standing with Tim Trahan and Tim Miller on the Persistence.  I just don't know how far back they are.

They should be in the photo bucket of the poster.  Who posted them?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on December 04, 2008, 12:27:32 AM
This is it. This is what I remember. Divers went down when the cage was found in December:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qK95qsXq6Q

The footage of Dave tugs at the heart.  Why would someone do that?  If that was an elaborate scheme to get Tim away from Aruba...then these people are more disgusting than could have ever been imagined.

I know, truthseeker. I had the same reaction. To be perfectly honest, I usually identify more with Beth. Maybe because I'm a Mom with a kid Natalee's age. But, in that video, Dave has my heart.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: truthseeker2 on December 04, 2008, 12:28:54 AM
Hotshot,

Do you believe they found Natalee's remains in that cage?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: SS on December 04, 2008, 12:31:15 AM
I am guessing that the lawyer must be on the prosecution side
or he wouldn't be on the call roll.

Kermit has been saying for a long time that we should
stay focused and not be diverted by the witness.

Why would anyone want to divert attention away from
the trap and the "human remains" found there?
One of those diverting is Caps, one is John Silvetti and one
is Clyde Burke, of ALE.
How can you even say CAPS is a diverter?  He has worked so hard on this case...... Kermit is making you focus on her, and its all silly, and can not be proved in any way......Its really sad that you all are fixed on that one thing that can not even be shown as any kind of proof.  Yes by the way CAPS can not keep a connection with the internet.  YES they are onto him, and yes, he is still able to help where he can.  You guys are going to look really silly in the end for downing the people like silvetti, and Kyle, and CAPS.  There must be more to do with your time then pick on the ones who actually go out of their way to help.  I do not see anyone here going out there to actually help as these people did.  And by the way Kermit, do NOT post anymore of Beths letters.........She will not be a happy camper.  She already knows whats going on with that.



Hotshot - I have always been a supporter of Caps.  I don't know that I can now say the same for some of those who were on Persistence.  Kermit has shown us so much proof and Kyle and produced nothing in his own defense.  You said that Beth is not happy that Kermit exposed her letters and she knows what's going on.  Can you please explain that a little more.  Kermit led us to believe that he had Bath's permission to expose the photographs and cover up.  Do we have incorrect information?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: truthseeker2 on December 04, 2008, 12:31:35 AM
This is it. This is what I remember. Divers went down when the cage was found in December:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qK95qsXq6Q

The footage of Dave tugs at the heart.  Why would someone do that?  If that was an elaborate scheme to get Tim away from Aruba...then these people are more disgusting than could have ever been imagined.

I know, truthseeker. I had the same reaction. To be perfectly honest, I usually identify more with Beth. Maybe because I'm a Mom with a kid Natalee's age. But, in that video, Dave has my heart.



I have watched Dave from the very beginning.  He once worked in my hometown before moving to Clinton and then on to Meridian.  My son went to college in Meridian for two years right after Natalee disappeared.  I would go down on weekends to watch him play baseball and everytime we made that left turn to go to the campus I would look to the right and see Dave's place of business and wonder how he was holding up.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Hotshot on December 04, 2008, 12:33:54 AM

Quote
Hotshot - I'm so baffled by all of this, I really don't know which way to turn.  That's why I haven't been contributing much.

Rightfully understood Klaas.  But Joran said from the beginning it was all so simple.  Not that I am one to take his words for being true at all, but really, why look into this as some huge mystery.  It is a mystery, but way hurt the ones who went and did their time there?  Yes many of us has been here from day one, and many of us have donated theories, names, evidence, maps, ect.... Everyone has an opinion.  But to hurt These people like this is outrageous to say the least.  I know a few of those guys on the boat were naive, but you'd think Tim explained to them after a while just how they (Aruba) works.  I just think things like downing these people needs to stay off the boards especially with the time and effort that was all put into it, on behalf of the Holloways.  Not everything has to be backed up with "I did it for myself".  So they lost money, we all have in one way or another.  


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: klaasend on December 04, 2008, 12:36:48 AM
This one?

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/persist.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: yuknomenot on December 04, 2008, 12:38:19 AM
klaasend, I might have missed it, but I didn't see an answer to your Endemol question.  It is a worldwide production company, Big Brother, Deal or No Deal, Changing Rooms and Fear Factor are a very few of their shows.  And of course it's a Dutch company.  Here's the Wikipedia link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endemol (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endemol)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: wreck on December 04, 2008, 12:39:07 AM
I am guessing that the lawyer must be on the prosecution side
or he wouldn't be on the call roll.

Kermit has been saying for a long time that we should
stay focused and not be diverted by the witness.

Why would anyone want to divert attention away from
the trap and the "human remains" found there?
One of those diverting is Caps, one is John Silvetti and one
is Clyde Burke, of ALE.
How can you even say CAPS is a diverter?  He has worked so hard on this case...... Kermit is making you focus on her, and its all silly, and can not be proved in any way......Its really sad that you all are fixed on that one thing that can not even be shown as any kind of proof.  Yes by the way CAPS can not keep a connection with the internet.  YES they are onto him, and yes, he is still able to help where he can.  You guys are going to look really silly in the end for downing the people like silvetti, and Kyle, and CAPS.  There must be more to do with your time then pick on the ones who actually go out of their way to help.  I do not see anyone here going out there to actually help as these people did.  And by the way Kermit, do NOT post anymore of Beths letters.........She will not be a happy camper.  She already knows whats going on with that.
Hotshot,
I have always looked forward to your posts from the beginning, and those of CAPS and Kyle. But, the recent posts by Kermit and the interchanges btwn Kermit/CAPS/Kyle seem to weigh in favor of Kermit.
If you could be more clear on this post as to the meaning of this:
And by the way Kermit, do NOT post anymore of Beths letters.........She will not be a happy camper.  She already knows whats going on with that.
I think the innuendos (intentional or not) are really confusing.....Help me understand please.
Bill, I too talk with Beth, and she does not want to be posted here as to what is said in private.  Kermit asked Beth in a private letter is she wanted her to expose the corruption.......Beth thinking the corruption of Aruba......Kermit went and posted Beths reply that said sure or something to that effect....then Kermit comes out with all this outrageous stuff.  Beth wants in no way to have her personal emails on any sites....And thats as far as I am going with this.  You may have your opinions and side with Kermit, but think about this, really think about this...You really think these people went out to Aruba to scan for oil crap when they didnt even come close to Venezuela?  They left there for a reason, and if the pictures dont tell you why, I dont know what will....Persistance has what they need, and so do the FBI.  just because they are not talking doesnt mean they are not working.
Well, it boils down to this (in my opinion): You seem to insinuate that Natalee (at least partially) was indeed found in the cage. Kermit seems to believe this as well. The argument is whether or not the FBI and Beth were COMPLETELY informed of this back in January '08. Kermit says they were NOT. You say they WERE. I'm sorry, but Kermit is making a more compelling argument to me.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: truthseeker2 on December 04, 2008, 12:39:08 AM
O/T

Klaas, is there a special reason why your tagline says" zoo geeper"?  Just wondering?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: klaasend on December 04, 2008, 12:39:49 AM
klaasend, I might have missed it, but I didn't see an answer to your Endemol question.  It is a worldwide production company, Big Brother, Deal or No Deal, Changing Rooms and Fear Factor are a very few of their shows.  And of course it's a Dutch company.  Here's the Wikipedia link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endemol (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endemol)

Ah, thanks for the info


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Hotshot on December 04, 2008, 12:39:55 AM


Quote
Hotshot - I have always been a supporter of Caps.  I don't know that I can now say the same for some of those who were on Persistence.  Kermit has shown us so much proof and Kyle and produced nothing in his own defense.  You said that Beth is not happy that Kermit exposed her letters and she knows what's going on.  Can you please explain that a little more.  Kermit led us to believe that he had Bath's permission to expose the photographs and cover up.  Do we have incorrect information?
Beth gave her ok to expose Aruba "period".  Beth would never give the OK to hurt someone who has tried to help bring closure.  We should all know beth by now, and she is not a hateful person.   kermit has shown nothing but private emails, that may have been changed prior to her posting them.  kyle already stated a few threads back, he is done with this show, and is no longer posting here.  i don't blame him.  Can you believe they were even mentioning that maybe he didnt even have a baby, and maybe he didnt even name her natalee?  WOW, thats hateful.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: SS on December 04, 2008, 12:40:04 AM
Whiskey Girl - this isn't really the place to explain business and corporate expenses, taxes, deductions, and write offs.   I suggest that you read about it.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: wreck on December 04, 2008, 12:41:38 AM
O/T

Klaas, is there a special reason why your tagline says" zoo geeper"?  Just wondering?
"Zoo Keepers" watch over the Monkey cage!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: yuknomenot on December 04, 2008, 12:41:43 AM
Minor correction, it was originally a Dutch company. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Tamikosmom on December 04, 2008, 12:42:03 AM
I have always been a believer in the landfill theory.

However, the following words of Kyle to Kermit in email communications convinces me there must be something inside that cage which has a connectionto the Natalee Holloway case.  Otherwise ... what is the story?  It is hard to contend that major networks would pay big bucks for a story about a search for remains that produces nothing.

Janet
__________

Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #882 on: Today at 02:36:28 AM »


Kyle said: "Louis is currently working with someone who I do not know to put together some documentary on the case, the way it was handled, and what happened during the search. I learned this from Tim T. yesterday. Louis was sold on the idea that it will make him a lot of money.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564701;topicseen#msg564701


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #779 11/24/08 -
« Reply #532 on: November 25, 2008, 07:06:45 PM »


From Kyle: May 8, 2008: "I've talked with Peter Shouten numerous times back in February. He hasn't seen anything but knows about the blue fabrics. DeVries and Endemol was interested in purchasing the ROV footage and I was working between them, ABC, and CBS to strike a deal."

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4179.msg557660#msg557660


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: klaasend on December 04, 2008, 12:42:18 AM
O/T

Klaas, is there a special reason why your tagline says" zoo geeper"?  Just wondering?

Back in the early part of July 2005 a poster by the name of Scandi-Nor started posting in the forum.  She was very fond of Joran and several of us thought maybe she was Anita or at least related to Joran.  She spoke broken english and said some crazy stuff one night, had us all laughing until we finally had to ban her.  One of the things she said was "did I do something wrong again zoo geeper".  She also told the moderator to "grow a brain".  ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Hotshot on December 04, 2008, 12:42:56 AM
Hotshot,

Do you believe they found Natalee's remains in that cage?
A picture says a thousand words.....And we have seen some pictures here that tell the story IMO


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: SS on December 04, 2008, 12:42:58 AM
This one?

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/persist.jpg)



Yes Klaas, thank you so much, that's it.  Do you also have the one of the recent family wedding where he was wearing a grey suit?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: klaasend on December 04, 2008, 12:43:51 AM


Quote
Hotshot - I have always been a supporter of Caps.  I don't know that I can now say the same for some of those who were on Persistence.  Kermit has shown us so much proof and Kyle and produced nothing in his own defense.  You said that Beth is not happy that Kermit exposed her letters and she knows what's going on.  Can you please explain that a little more.  Kermit led us to believe that he had Bath's permission to expose the photographs and cover up.  Do we have incorrect information?
Beth gave her ok to expose Aruba "period".  Beth would never give the OK to hurt someone who has tried to help bring closure.  We should all know beth by now, and she is not a hateful person.   kermit has shown nothing but private emails, that may have been changed prior to her posting them.  kyle already stated a few threads back, he is done with this show, and is no longer posting here.  i don't blame him.  Can you believe they were even mentioning that maybe he didnt even have a baby, and maybe he didnt even name her natalee?  WOW, thats hateful.

I don't remember seeing anything like that posted here but I might have missed it. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: truthseeker2 on December 04, 2008, 12:44:06 AM
O/T

Klaas, is there a special reason why your tagline says" zoo geeper"?  Just wondering?
"Zoo Keepers" watch over the Monkey cage!

Yep...but what does a 'zoo geeper' do?  lol


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: klaasend on December 04, 2008, 12:44:24 AM
(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/EdwardoCompare.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: truthseeker2 on December 04, 2008, 12:45:26 AM
O/T

Klaas, is there a special reason why your tagline says" zoo geeper"?  Just wondering?

Back in the early part of July 2005 a poster by the name of Scandi-Nor started posting in the forum.  She was very fond of Joran and several of us thought maybe she was Anita or at least related to Joran.  She spoke broken english and said some crazy stuff one night, had us all laughing until we finally had to ban her.  One of the things she said was "did I do something wrong again zoo geeper".  She also told the moderator to "grow a brain".  ::MonkeyHaHa::

LOL.  I missed all of that.  If you figure out how to grow brains let us all know!!!!!!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: wreck on December 04, 2008, 12:45:36 AM
O/T

Klaas, is there a special reason why your tagline says" zoo geeper"?  Just wondering?

Back in the early part of July 2005 a poster by the name of Scandi-Nor started posting in the forum.  She was very fond of Joran and several of us thought maybe she was Anita or at least related to Joran.  She spoke broken english and said some crazy stuff one night, had us all laughing until we finally had to ban her.  One of the things she said was "did I do something wrong again zoo geeper".  She also told the moderator to "grow a brain".  ::MonkeyHaHa::
::MonkeyLaugh:: ::MonkeyLaugh:: I never noticed it said "geeper" -- one of those things that your mind sees, but "registers" what it should be!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: cajun miracle on December 04, 2008, 12:45:50 AM
I am guessing that the lawyer must be on the prosecution side
or he wouldn't be on the call roll.

Kermit has been saying for a long time that we should
stay focused and not be diverted by the witness.

Why would anyone want to divert attention away from
the trap and the "human remains" found there?
One of those diverting is Caps, one is John Silvetti and one
is Clyde Burke, of ALE.
How can you even say CAPS is a diverter?  He has worked so hard on this case...... Kermit is making you focus on her, and its all silly, and can not be proved in any way......Its really sad that you all are fixed on that one thing that can not even be shown as any kind of proof.  Yes by the way CAPS can not keep a connection with the internet.  YES they are onto him, and yes, he is still able to help where he can.  You guys are going to look really silly in the end for downing the people like silvetti, and Kyle, and CAPS.  There must be more to do with your time then pick on the ones who actually go out of their way to help.  I do not see anyone here going out there to actually help as these people did.  And by the way Kermit, do NOT post anymore of Beths letters.........She will not be a happy camper.  She already knows whats going on with that.
Hotshot,
I have always looked forward to your posts from the beginning, and those of CAPS and Kyle. But, the recent posts by Kermit and the interchanges btwn Kermit/CAPS/Kyle seem to weigh in favor of Kermit.
If you could be more clear on this post as to the meaning of this:
And by the way Kermit, do NOT post anymore of Beths letters.........She will not be a happy camper.  She already knows whats going on with that.
I think the innuendos (intentional or not) are really confusing.....Help me understand please.
Bill, I too talk with Beth, and she does not want to be posted here as to what is said in private.  Kermit asked Beth in a private letter is she wanted her to expose the corruption.......Beth thinking the corruption of Aruba......Kermit went and posted Beths reply that said sure or something to that effect....then Kermit comes out with all this outrageous stuff.  Beth wants in no way to have her personal emails on any sites....And thats as far as I am going with this.  You may have your opinions and side with Kermit, but think about this, really think about this...You really think these people went out to Aruba to scan for oil crap when they didnt even come close to Venezuela?  They left there for a reason, and if the pictures dont tell you why, I dont know what will....Persistance has what they need, and so do the FBI.  just because they are not talking doesnt mean they are not working.

Thanks Hotshot. I can now stay with my first conclusion.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Tamikosmom on December 04, 2008, 12:48:31 AM
O/T

Klaas, is there a special reason why your tagline says" zoo geeper"?  Just wondering?

Back in the early part of July 2005 a poster by the name of Scandi-Nor started posting in the forum.  She was very fond of Joran and several of us thought maybe she was Anita or at least related to Joran.  She spoke broken english and said some crazy stuff one night, had us all laughing until we finally had to ban her.  One of the things she said was "did I do something wrong again zoo geeper".  She also told the moderator to "grow a brain".  ::MonkeyHaHa::

 ::MonkeyHaHa::

GOOD NIGHT MONKEYS!!!  GOOD NIGHT ZOO GEEPERS!!!

Janet
9:50 PM PT


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: truthseeker2 on December 04, 2008, 12:48:42 AM
Well...I just don't know what to think right now.  I guess I will turn in for the night and try again tomorrow.  I may have to go back to my first conclusion, too.  That takes me all over the place looking into things.

'Nite, monkeys.  Will be workin' and lurkin' again tomorrow!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Hotshot on December 04, 2008, 12:48:59 AM
Quote
 Can you believe they were even mentioning that maybe he didnt even have a baby, and maybe he didnt even name her natalee?  WOW, thats hateful.
--------------------------------------------------------------------

I don't remember seeing anything like that posted here but I might have missed it.
 

It was Klaas.  I wouldn't be so upset about it if it didnt happen.  Kyle is obviously not going to stick up for himself, someone has to.  If I knew how to search here, I'd find you that quote, but I think you are better at it then I, so I will let you do that.  Trust me, it was said.  


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: klaasend on December 04, 2008, 12:52:39 AM
Nite Janet and TruthSeeker

Hotshot, I'll see if I can find it when I get a chance.  I don't do that well with our search engine either unless I know who posted it.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Keepthefaith on December 04, 2008, 12:53:52 AM
Question Hotshot!When,and by whom were the pictures of the cage turned over to the proper authorities?Is Kermit telling the TRUTH or NOT??Can you dispell the myths that Kermit is telling us?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Hotshot on December 04, 2008, 12:54:07 AM
cajun miracle  Thank-you.  I just hope others stop, and look at how silly all of this is.  I am going to sleep now.  I know I can sleep, with kindness in my heart.  Back to lurking.

And Wreck .....you and Rob never did see eye to eye with anything I had to say anyhow, I don't expect for things to change now..  But I still enjoy reading your posts.  


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: billb's daughter on December 04, 2008, 12:55:20 AM
I am guessing that the lawyer must be on the prosecution side
or he wouldn't be on the call roll.

Kermit has been saying for a long time that we should
stay focused and not be diverted by the witness.

Why would anyone want to divert attention away from
the trap and the "human remains" found there?
One of those diverting is Caps, one is John Silvetti and one
is Clyde Burke, of ALE.
How can you even say CAPS is a diverter?  He has worked so hard on this case...... Kermit is making you focus on her, and its all silly, and can not be proved in any way......Its really sad that you all are fixed on that one thing that can not even be shown as any kind of proof.  Yes by the way CAPS can not keep a connection with the internet.  YES they are onto him, and yes, he is still able to help where he can.  You guys are going to look really silly in the end for downing the people like silvetti, and Kyle, and CAPS.  There must be more to do with your time then pick on the ones who actually go out of their way to help.  I do not see anyone here going out there to actually help as these people did.  And by the way Kermit, do NOT post anymore of Beths letters.........She will not be a happy camper.  She already knows whats going on with that.
Hotshot,
I have always looked forward to your posts from the beginning, and those of CAPS and Kyle. But, the recent posts by Kermit and the interchanges btwn Kermit/CAPS/Kyle seem to weigh in favor of Kermit.
If you could be more clear on this post as to the meaning of this:
And by the way Kermit, do NOT post anymore of Beths letters.........She will not be a happy camper.  She already knows whats going on with that.
I think the innuendos (intentional or not) are really confusing.....Help me understand please.
Bill, I too talk with Beth, and she does not want to be posted here as to what is said in private.  Kermit asked Beth in a private letter is she wanted her to expose the corruption.......Beth thinking the corruption of Aruba......Kermit went and posted Beths reply that said sure or something to that effect....then Kermit comes out with all this outrageous stuff.  Beth wants in no way to have her personal emails on any sites....And thats as far as I am going with this.  You may have your opinions and side with Kermit, but think about this, really think about this...You really think these people went out to Aruba to scan for oil crap when they didnt even come close to Venezuela?  They left there for a reason, and if the pictures dont tell you why, I dont know what will....Persistance has what they need, and so do the FBI.  just because they are not talking doesnt mean they are not working.
Hotspot. Thank you for your candid answer to my question.
Please understand...I'm not taking sides, and I really feel uncomfortable when I see long time valued Monkeys seemly in disagreement with each other and calling one another out. What I also take away from this post is that, bottom line, Persistence's mission (searching for Natalee) was a success, and FBI is abreast of the situation. I did say that I agreed with the global picture Kermit was promoting, but that does not mean the I unconditionally discard the picture CAPS has pushed forward. In my opinion, pieces of both can mesh together...CAPS vision of the crime, remains found in the cage, possible remains recovered by ALE in Dec/Jan and/or other remains ending up in CAPS cemetery theory.   I do believe remains were moved multiple times. Thanks again. V/r, billb


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: SS on December 04, 2008, 12:55:50 AM


Quote
Hotshot - I have always been a supporter of Caps.  I don't know that I can now say the same for some of those who were on Persistence.  Kermit has shown us so much proof and Kyle and produced nothing in his own defense.  You said that Beth is not happy that Kermit exposed her letters and she knows what's going on.  Can you please explain that a little more.  Kermit led us to believe that he had Bath's permission to expose the photographs and cover up.  Do we have incorrect information?
Beth gave her ok to expose Aruba "period".  Beth would never give the OK to hurt someone who has tried to help bring closure.  We should all know beth by now, and she is not a hateful person.   kermit has shown nothing but private emails, that may have been changed prior to her posting them.  kyle already stated a few threads back, he is done with this show, and is no longer posting here.  i don't blame him.  Can you believe they were even mentioning that maybe he didnt even have a baby, and maybe he didnt even name her natalee?  WOW, thats hateful.




Hotshot - what you are saying is the exact opposite of what Kermit is saying.  Kermit has told us that Beth did not get the photographs from anyone on the Persistence.  You are saying that she did.  Kermit is saying that this information was withheld from the H/Ts, and you are saying that it wasn't.  Do you have any knowledge of Louis or Kyle selling or trying to sell photographs from the cage?  Kermit has given us an awful lot of evidence, including photographs.  I personally don't care if they were looking for oil while they were looking for Natalee.  I am angry that based on what Kermit has told us, the search for Natalee was a fixed game (as PI himself put it).  I am angry about the way the contents of the cage were handled.  I am angry that information was withheld from Beth and Dave.  Perhaps you and Kermit need to debate some of these issues, because these are big issues and as a group, we are here to ask questions until we get answers.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Keepthefaith on December 04, 2008, 12:57:10 AM
Quote
 Can you believe they were even mentioning that maybe he didnt even have a baby, and maybe he didnt even name her natalee?  WOW, thats hateful.
--------------------------------------------------------------------

I don't remember seeing anything like that posted here but I might have missed it.
 

It was Klaas.  I wouldn't be so upset about it if it didnt happen.  Kyle is obviously not going to stick up for himself, someone has to.  If I knew how to search here, I'd find you that quote, but I think you are better at it then I, so I will let you do that.  Trust me, it was said.  


To be honest i believe i read the same thing.It would more then likely have came after the exchange over the cage pictures Klass if that helps your search at all..for what it's worth..


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on December 04, 2008, 12:58:01 AM
O/T

Klaas, is there a special reason why your tagline says" zoo geeper"?  Just wondering?

You win the prize for most observant. Here:

(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c100/crazybabyborgs/Christmas/ctruthseeker.gif)
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c100/crazybabyborgs/Christmas/ctruthseeker.gif

 ::MonkeyHaHa::

I was here and remember it. I still have her avi...........funny looking. Like a Polka dancer.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Anna on December 04, 2008, 12:58:56 AM
Dont you think there is a reason behind everything? Do you really think that NO other videos of the bags being done, and brought up?  There has to be.  And Kyle didnt say Silvetti got rid of all evidence of natalee on the boat.  he said it was wiped clean.......  In other words, they are in a safe place so no other people can get to them.  Reading into things like the way some of you are is going to hurt some feelings.  just because someone goes bankrupt, or looses in stocks doesn't nessasarily mean they are going to the bad side of town.  People can be good hearted sometime, and i for one feel they are good hearted.  These people read this forum, and feelings I am sure are really going to be hurt.  i don't know what Red is feeling, but i would think he wouldn't want this nonsence going on here.  Silvetti has gone back to Aruba too do monsterat pond, and yes he met up with CAPS, because he was sent to go find him at the Persistance.  CAPS didnt even know the boat was there, or how to contact these people......It was some monkeys here who showed him the way...

Hotshot - I'm so baffled by all of this, I really don't know which way to turn.  That's why I haven't been contributing much.



I'm with you, Klaas.  This is ALL totally baffling.  Don't know what to think.

I will however state again that the pipeline from Venezuela to Aruba was for NATURAL GAS and NOT OIL and therefore would have nothing to do with the refinery.  Once Aruba converts everything to natural gas, this would give Venezuela the same strangle hold on Aruba that Russia now has on the EU as far as providing natural gas.

Be that as it may, why not just wait for the Ruskies mapping of the floor of the ocean for you know they are not going to bring their fleet in there without knowing what's there.  Certainly not their SS Peter the Great, the pride of their nuclear subs.

Aruba and Venezuela both will be lucky if the damned thing doesn't malfunction and meltdown the way so many of the Russian's junky crap does.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: SS on December 04, 2008, 12:59:50 AM
(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/EdwardoCompare.jpg)



Thanks Klaas.  That is Eduardo Mansur, founder of Aruba Search and Rescue.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Magnolia on December 04, 2008, 01:01:22 AM
Quote
 Can you believe they were even mentioning that maybe he didnt even have a baby, and maybe he didnt even name her natalee?  WOW, thats hateful.
--------------------------------------------------------------------

I don't remember seeing anything like that posted here but I might have missed it.
 

It was Klaas.  I wouldn't be so upset about it if it didnt happen.  Kyle is obviously not going to stick up for himself, someone has to.  If I knew how to search here, I'd find you that quote, but I think you are better at it then I, so I will let you do that.  Trust me, it was said.  


To be honest i believe i read the same thing.It would more then likely have came after the exchange over the cage pictures Klass if that helps your search at all..for what it's worth..

I was one of the ones who said that I wondered now if there ever was
a baby....that was after other incondidtencies had been exposed.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on December 04, 2008, 01:03:12 AM
Well, I feel like I've been up and down a hill too fast. My stomach's back there someplace!

I'm giving it up as well for the night.

Maybe I didn't miss so much. On the other hand, I may have missed Natalee being found.

No worries. Klaas will let me know!  ::MonkeyHaHa::

Night sweet monkeys! You too, you rotten ones~! (jk)

God Bless!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Keepthefaith on December 04, 2008, 01:03:42 AM


Quote
Hotshot - I have always been a supporter of Caps.  I don't know that I can now say the same for some of those who were on Persistence.  Kermit has shown us so much proof and Kyle and produced nothing in his own defense.  You said that Beth is not happy that Kermit exposed her letters and she knows what's going on.  Can you please explain that a little more.  Kermit led us to believe that he had Bath's permission to expose the photographs and cover up.  Do we have incorrect information?
Beth gave her ok to expose Aruba "period".  Beth would never give the OK to hurt someone who has tried to help bring closure.  We should all know beth by now, and she is not a hateful person.   kermit has shown nothing but private emails, that may have been changed prior to her posting them.  kyle already stated a few threads back, he is done with this show, and is no longer posting here.  i don't blame him.  Can you believe they were even mentioning that maybe he didnt even have a baby, and maybe he didnt even name her natalee?  WOW, thats hateful.




Hotshot - what you are saying is the exact opposite of what Kermit is saying.  Kermit has told us that Beth did not get the photographs from anyone on the Persistence.  You are saying that she did.  Kermit is saying that this information was withheld from the H/Ts, and you are saying that it wasn't.  Do you have any knowledge of Louis or Kyle selling or trying to sell photographs from the cage?  Kermit has given us an awful lot of evidence, including photographs.  I personally don't care if they were looking for oil while they were looking for Natalee.  I am angry that based on what Kermit has told us, the search for Natalee was a fixed game (as PI himself put it).  I am angry about the way the contents of the cage were handled.  I am angry that information was withheld from Beth and Dave.  Perhaps you and Kermit need to debate some of these issues, because these are big issues and as a group, we are here to ask questions until we get answers.

Very eloquent SS!I believe Kermit will post in due time.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Keepthefaith on December 04, 2008, 01:05:45 AM
Well, I feel like I've been up and down a hill too fast. My stomach's back there someplace!

I'm giving it up as well for the night.

Maybe I didn't miss so much. On the other hand, I may have missed Natalee being found.

No worries. Klaas will let me know!  ::MonkeyHaHa::

Night sweet monkeys! You too, you rotten ones~! (jk)

God Bless!

G-Night CBB.Monkey's are all here for the TRUTH.Natalee's Truth.Nothing more nothing less.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: klaasend on December 04, 2008, 01:06:09 AM
Well, I feel like I've been up and down a hill too fast. My stomach's back there someplace!

I'm giving it up as well for the night.

Maybe I didn't miss so much. On the other hand, I may have missed Natalee being found.

No worries. Klaas will let me know!  ::MonkeyHaHa::

Night sweet monkeys! You too, you rotten ones~! (jk)

God Bless!

Nite CBB


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: SS on December 04, 2008, 01:06:26 AM
Quote
 Can you believe they were even mentioning that maybe he didnt even have a baby, and maybe he didnt even name her natalee?  WOW, thats hateful.
--------------------------------------------------------------------

I don't remember seeing anything like that posted here but I might have missed it.
 

It was Klaas.  I wouldn't be so upset about it if it didnt happen.  Kyle is obviously not going to stick up for himself, someone has to.  If I knew how to search here, I'd find you that quote, but I think you are better at it then I, so I will let you do that.  Trust me, it was said.  


To be honest i believe i read the same thing.It would more then likely have came after the exchange over the cage pictures Klass if that helps your search at all..for what it's worth..




Kyle did name his baby Natalee.  I think it was around April or May.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on December 04, 2008, 01:09:56 AM
klaasend, I might have missed it, but I didn't see an answer to your Endemol question.  It is a worldwide production company, Big Brother, Deal or No Deal, Changing Rooms and Fear Factor are a very few of their shows.  And of course it's a Dutch company.  Here's the Wikipedia link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endemol (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endemol)

Ah, thanks for the info

Didn't this come up before?  For some reason, Fear Factor made me recall something.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: klaasend on December 04, 2008, 01:10:10 AM
Quote
SS wrote:

these are big issues and as a group, we are here to ask questions until we get answers

Precisely why I don't interfere with the direction the discussions have been going.  Who am I to say what is the truth?  I want to believe that the Persistence and Caps are all on Natalee's side.  All any of us wants is justice for Natalee and her family. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Keepthefaith on December 04, 2008, 01:11:42 AM
Quote
 Can you believe they were even mentioning that maybe he didnt even have a baby, and maybe he didnt even name her natalee?  WOW, thats hateful.
--------------------------------------------------------------------

I don't remember seeing anything like that posted here but I might have missed it.
 

It was Klaas.  I wouldn't be so upset about it if it didnt happen.  Kyle is obviously not going to stick up for himself, someone has to.  If I knew how to search here, I'd find you that quote, but I think you are better at it then I, so I will let you do that.  Trust me, it was said.  


To be honest i believe i read the same thing.It would more then likely have came after the exchange over the cage pictures Klass if that helps your search at all..for what it's worth..




Kyle did name his baby Natalee.  I think it was around April or May.

Kinda O/T SS.So.If we all believe Natalee or part of her was found in that cage.What could potentially be done in regards to seeking justice in a Foreign country that is corrupt???If we have no jurisdiction??Who's gonna do something??


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: klaasend on December 04, 2008, 01:17:23 AM
GOODNIGHT ALL!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Helen Back on December 04, 2008, 01:17:23 AM
Quote
  Can you believe they were even mentioning that maybe he didnt even have a baby, and maybe he didnt even name her natalee?  WOW, thats hateful.
--------------------------------------------------------------------

I don't remember seeing anything like that posted here but I might have missed it.
 

It was Klaas.  I wouldn't be so upset about it if it didnt happen.  Kyle is obviously not going to stick up for himself, someone has to.  If I knew how to search here, I'd find you that quote, but I think you are better at it then I, so I will let you do that.  Trust me, it was said. 


I never saw anything like that posted here either.  I try to read everyone's posts, but could have missed it.
My head spins with all the confusing information posted here recently.   

If the FBI is involved, I'm happy.  If I've read something here that was part of a private email of Beth's, I was unaware of that, as I don't believe that was stated.

For those of us who don't know any of Natalee's family members, and have no "inside track", this can be an especially confusing place. 

I can tell you that, having been raised by a "G-man", I don't understand the concept of talking about confidential things.  Loose lips sink ships and all that.  I know we are all desperate for news and progress for Natalee and her family, but not at the expense of any investigation, safety of those who are trying to help, or feelings of those who have already been hurt so profoundly.

I am happy to follow my natural instinct to err on the side of caution, and remain suspended in temporary cluelessness. ::MonkeyWink::

Besides, there are some creeepy trolls poppin in and out of here sometimes, and I don't like to give them snacks.

 ::MonkeyCool::





Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on December 04, 2008, 01:21:07 AM
Quote
SS wrote:

these are big issues and as a group, we are here to ask questions until we get answers

Precisely why I don't interfere with the direction the discussions have been going.  Who am I to say what is the truth?  I want to believe that the Persistence and Caps are all on Natalee's side.  All any of us wants is justice for Natalee and her family. 

I agree with both of you.  I've had my share of questions and still can't make heads or tails out of the current discussion.  I, too, want to believe that justice for Natalee & her family was/is the focus of the Persistence and Caps. 

G'nite.

PS...I also read the post Hotshot referenced about Kyle's baby, but not the poster.....


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Anna on December 04, 2008, 01:22:36 AM
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Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Lifesong on December 04, 2008, 01:22:39 AM
I am guessing that the lawyer must be on the prosecution side
or he wouldn't be on the call roll.

Kermit has been saying for a long time that we should
stay focused and not be diverted by the witness.

Why would anyone want to divert attention away from
the trap and the "human remains" found there?
One of those diverting is Caps, one is John Silvetti and one
is Clyde Burke, of ALE.
How can you even say CAPS is a diverter?  He has worked so hard on this case...... Kermit is making you focus on her, and its all silly, and can not be proved in any way......Its really sad that you all are fixed on that one thing that can not even be shown as any kind of proof.  Yes by the way CAPS can not keep a connection with the internet.  YES they are onto him, and yes, he is still able to help where he can.  You guys are going to look really silly in the end for downing the people like silvetti, and Kyle, and CAPS.  There must be more to do with your time then pick on the ones who actually go out of their way to help.  I do not see anyone here going out there to actually help as these people did.  And by the way Kermit, do NOT post anymore of Beths letters.........She will not be a happy camper.  She already knows whats going on with that.
Hotshot,
I have always looked forward to your posts from the beginning, and those of CAPS and Kyle. But, the recent posts by Kermit and the interchanges btwn Kermit/CAPS/Kyle seem to weigh in favor of Kermit.
If you could be more clear on this post as to the meaning of this:
And by the way Kermit, do NOT post anymore of Beths letters.........She will not be a happy camper.  She already knows whats going on with that.
I think the innuendos (intentional or not) are really confusing.....Help me understand please.
Bill, I too talk with Beth, and she does not want to be posted here as to what is said in private.  Kermit asked Beth in a private letter is she wanted her to expose the corruption.......Beth thinking the corruption of Aruba......Kermit went and posted Beths reply that said sure or something to that effect....then Kermit comes out with all this outrageous stuff.  Beth wants in no way to have her personal emails on any sites....And thats as far as I am going with this.  You may have your opinions and side with Kermit, but think about this, really think about this...You really think these people went out to Aruba to scan for oil crap when they didnt even come close to Venezuela?  They left there for a reason, and if the pictures dont tell you why, I dont know what will....Persistance has what they need, and so do the FBI.  just because they are not talking doesnt mean they are not working.


I'm a few pages behind, so forgive me if this has already been asked.

I think when the ocean search finally started I actually thought and/or assumed that the purpose was to find Natalie and bring her home.  Period.  After being so jerked around by ALE, AHATA, etc. - they having no respect for the rule of law, the very last thing I expected was that if something was found it would be reported to ALE prior to recovery.

I just naturally assumed 'we' would play the game the way they'd been playing it if thats what it took.  I expected TES, Silvetti, et al - upon finding that trap to recover the evidence themselves surreptiously - whether that complied Aruban law or not.  Get it the evidence, bring it home to Beth and Dave, have it analyzed at a private facility - then, once the truth is finally known - turn it over to the FBI and apologize, "oops, we got confused, we just didn't understand their laws." 

They don't respect their rule of law, but we're supposed to?  At the price of truth and justice?

Did anyone else have the same expectation? 

I just can't believe that Dave and Beth, or esp. Tim Miller, actually agreed to turn over any evidence found to ALE.  Legal or illegal.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: texasmom on December 04, 2008, 01:24:23 AM
Just a few comments from my reading of the last several pages:

One important name left out of the summary of all of this is Louis Schaefer.  From what I've read, he's the one that was selling off stocks, etc.; not John Silvetti.  He's also the one that is named in several lawsuits from my reading.

I don't recall any pictures posted that would identify any of the divers that participated in the Jan 7th dive on the cage.  From my understanding of what Kermit has said, the divers never boarded Persistence that day.  They dove from the ALE boat collected the evidence and returned to the ALE boat and left the site.  The only pictures that I'm aware of that have been posted from the Jan 7th dive are of the cage and the bagged evidence, with no divers in sight.  The pictures were captured by the ROV that was filming without their knowledge.

I don't believe that Kermit or Kyle has named any of the Aruban divers, if they did; would someone please post a link where I can reread that information.

The pictures of who we believe to be Eduardo Mansur were taken on the Persistence prior to the Jan 7th dive.  Even though he may be a diver, and may have assisted others in preparing for the dive;  I've not seen any evidence that he actually participated in any dive on the cage.

KERMIT....please let me know if I'm wrong about this.

I haven't participated much tonight because we had a severe thunderstorm, my hi speed is down...so I'm on dial up with my son's laptop...unfamiliar to say the least.  And I feel like I've aged ten years waiting for pages to load, lol...

Hopefully I will be back in my comfort zone tomorrow and can add more to the discussion.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Magnolia on December 04, 2008, 01:26:22 AM
I don't believe that Beth objected to Kermit posting a one word
email with no address on it.
I don't believe that Natalee was cut into pieces.  Joran
nor any of the pimps have the balls to do that.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Anna on December 04, 2008, 01:26:49 AM
http://finance.google.com/finance?q=OTC:DEEP


When they left to look for Natalee the stock was trading at around $13.00 and soon was down to $0.16 and I think that is what caused the lawsuit.

Now what this has to do with anything related to Natalee, I can't make a connection.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Keepthefaith on December 04, 2008, 01:27:16 AM
I am guessing that the lawyer must be on the prosecution side
or he wouldn't be on the call roll.

Kermit has been saying for a long time that we should
stay focused and not be diverted by the witness.

Why would anyone want to divert attention away from
the trap and the "human remains" found there?
One of those diverting is Caps, one is John Silvetti and one
is Clyde Burke, of ALE.
How can you even say CAPS is a diverter?  He has worked so hard on this case...... Kermit is making you focus on her, and its all silly, and can not be proved in any way......Its really sad that you all are fixed on that one thing that can not even be shown as any kind of proof.  Yes by the way CAPS can not keep a connection with the internet.  YES they are onto him, and yes, he is still able to help where he can.  You guys are going to look really silly in the end for downing the people like silvetti, and Kyle, and CAPS.  There must be more to do with your time then pick on the ones who actually go out of their way to help.  I do not see anyone here going out there to actually help as these people did.  And by the way Kermit, do NOT post anymore of Beths letters.........She will not be a happy camper.  She already knows whats going on with that.
Hotshot,
I have always looked forward to your posts from the beginning, and those of CAPS and Kyle. But, the recent posts by Kermit and the interchanges btwn Kermit/CAPS/Kyle seem to weigh in favor of Kermit.
If you could be more clear on this post as to the meaning of this:
And by the way Kermit, do NOT post anymore of Beths letters.........She will not be a happy camper.  She already knows whats going on with that.
I think the innuendos (intentional or not) are really confusing.....Help me understand please.
Bill, I too talk with Beth, and she does not want to be posted here as to what is said in private.  Kermit asked Beth in a private letter is she wanted her to expose the corruption.......Beth thinking the corruption of Aruba......Kermit went and posted Beths reply that said sure or something to that effect....then Kermit comes out with all this outrageous stuff.  Beth wants in no way to have her personal emails on any sites....And thats as far as I am going with this.  You may have your opinions and side with Kermit, but think about this, really think about this...You really think these people went out to Aruba to scan for oil crap when they didnt even come close to Venezuela?  They left there for a reason, and if the pictures dont tell you why, I dont know what will....Persistance has what they need, and so do the FBI.  just because they are not talking doesnt mean they are not working.


I'm a few pages behind, so forgive me if this has already been asked.

I think when the ocean search finally started I actually thought and/or assumed that the purpose was to find Natalie and bring her home.  Period.  After being so jerked around by ALE, AHATA, etc. - they having no respect for the rule of law, the very last thing I expected was that if something was found it would be reported to ALE prior to recovery.

I just naturally assumed 'we' would play the game the way they'd been playing it if thats what it took.  I expected TES, Silvetti, et al - upon finding that trap to recover the evidence themselves surreptiously - whether that complied Aruban law or not.  Get it the evidence, bring it home to Beth and Dave, have it analyzed at a private facility - then, once the truth is finally known - turn it over to the FBI and apologize, "oops, we got confused, we just didn't understand their laws." 

They don't respect their rule of law, but we're supposed to?  At the price of truth and justice?

Did anyone else have the same expectation? 

I just can't believe that Dave and Beth, or esp. Tim Miller, actually agreed to turn over any evidence found to ALE.  Legal or illegal.


On this topic Lifesong.Go to Kermit's profile and read all the posts,as well as Oceanexploration.You will form your own opinion..


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Hotshot on December 04, 2008, 01:29:08 AM
Quote
SS wrote:

these are big issues and as a group, we are here to ask questions until we get answers

Precisely why I don't interfere with the direction the discussions have been going.  Who am I to say what is the truth?  I want to believe that the Persistence and Caps are all on Natalee's side.  All any of us wants is justice for Natalee and her family. 

I agree with both of you.  I've had my share of questions and still can't make heads or tails out of the current discussion.  I, too, want to believe that justice for Natalee & her family was/is the focus of the Persistence and Caps. 

G'nite.

PS...I also read the post Hotshot referenced about Kyle's baby, but not the poster.....
check it once, check it twice,....then post it.    http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4173.msg556327;topicseen#msg556327


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: SS on December 04, 2008, 01:30:31 AM
Quote
 Can you believe they were even mentioning that maybe he didnt even have a baby, and maybe he didnt even name her natalee?  WOW, thats hateful.
--------------------------------------------------------------------

I don't remember seeing anything like that posted here but I might have missed it.
 

It was Klaas.  I wouldn't be so upset about it if it didnt happen.  Kyle is obviously not going to stick up for himself, someone has to.  If I knew how to search here, I'd find you that quote, but I think you are better at it then I, so I will let you do that.  Trust me, it was said.  


To be honest i believe i read the same thing.It would more then likely have came after the exchange over the cage pictures Klass if that helps your search at all..for what it's worth..




Kyle did name his baby Natalee.  I think it was around April or May.

Kinda O/T SS.So.If we all believe Natalee or part of her was found in that cage.What could potentially be done in regards to seeking justice in a Foreign country that is corrupt???If we have no jurisdiction??Who's gonna do something??




KTF - I am not an International Attorney, but from what I understand there isn't a whole lot that we can do.  Our FBI has no jurisdiction outside of our borders unless they are invited to assist and be part of an investigation.  Sen. Biden and his Committee on Foreign Relations didn't appear to do anything at all and he never even answered the many emails that I sent to him.  I have no idea what, if anything, the State Dept. has done.  There is a World Court at the Hague, and I have no idea of their procedures.  Fortunately most countries in the civilized world don't behave the way that Aruba does.  I have only seen one other and I actually lived there for a while so I can speak from personal experience - Iran.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Keepthefaith on December 04, 2008, 01:31:20 AM
Question Hotshot!When,and by whom were the pictures of the cage turned over to the proper authorities?Is Kermit telling the TRUTH or NOT??Can you dispell the myths that Kermit is telling us?

Don't know if you caught these questions Hotshot.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Anna on December 04, 2008, 01:31:39 AM
Quote
SS wrote:

these are big issues and as a group, we are here to ask questions until we get answers

Precisely why I don't interfere with the direction the discussions have been going.  Who am I to say what is the truth?  I want to believe that the Persistence and Caps are all on Natalee's side.  All any of us wants is justice for Natalee and her family. 



Same here.  I don't believe or disbelieve anybody and hope all are working for the same common goal.  It seems all those "in the know" have posted incorrect information at one time or another so I really don't know what to think but for sure don't know if any remains of Natalee were ever in that cage, etc.

I think this has all become far more complicated than the actual facts but will just continue to read and consider.

Not endorsing any version of the "truth" that I have seen presented so far but will continue to consider any and all.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on December 04, 2008, 01:32:46 AM
http://finance.google.com/finance?q=OTC:DEEP


When they left to look for Natalee the stock was trading at around $13.00 and soon was down to $0.16 and I think that is what caused the lawsuit.

Now what this has to do with anything related to Natalee, I can't make a connection.


I've read and posted this info and still can't make a connection that I believe.  I just have more questions, Anna.

I already said G'nite, but I'm still here...same o same o


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: billb's daughter on December 04, 2008, 01:38:34 AM
I don't believe that Beth objected to Kermit posting a one word
email with no address on it.
I don't believe that Natalee was cut into pieces.  Joran
nor any of the pimps have the balls to do that.
Magnolia,
I disagree about Joran and having the balls (OK-little balls after seeing the pics previously posted).
He was not just a troubled teenager (17) that we are accustomed too here in the US. He ran the household, tried to maintain a bada$$ image with his moron pimps/associates. I do think he spent and still spends most of his time high and on the night in question, he was capable of horrendous actions including cutting up Natalee. He is a monster! MHO. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Anna on December 04, 2008, 01:38:59 AM
http://finance.google.com/finance?q=OTC:DEEP


When they left to look for Natalee the stock was trading at around $13.00 and soon was down to $0.16 and I think that is what caused the lawsuit.

Now what this has to do with anything related to Natalee, I can't make a connection.


I've read and posted this info and still can't make a connection that I believe.  I just have more questions, Anna.

I already said G'nite, but I'm still here...same o same o


Yep, I posted it at the time it was happening as well and no one was in the least interested.  I do think some are confusing Silveti and Schaefer perhaps.

But in order for any of this to even matter, one has to first believe for a fact Natalee's remains were in that cage and I am just not convinced that they were.  Nor that they were dismembered and spread all over the place either as that's just too over the top.

And I sure don't understand why we are supposed to be guessing things like initials.

And I thought it was a physician who had the fake credentials and not a lawyer, maybe even the august and esteemed Boushi Wever but can't find anything on it.

Oh, well.  I will just lurk and read and see where all of this goes but can't really make sense of any of it that is believable to me.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on December 04, 2008, 01:40:13 AM
Quote
SS wrote:

these are big issues and as a group, we are here to ask questions until we get answers

Precisely why I don't interfere with the direction the discussions have been going.  Who am I to say what is the truth?  I want to believe that the Persistence and Caps are all on Natalee's side.  All any of us wants is justice for Natalee and her family. 

I agree with both of you.  I've had my share of questions and still can't make heads or tails out of the current discussion.  I, too, want to believe that justice for Natalee & her family was/is the focus of the Persistence and Caps. 

G'nite.

PS...I also read the post Hotshot referenced about Kyle's baby, but not the poster.....
check it once, check it twice,....then post it.    http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4173.msg556327;topicseen#msg556327

I did find it afterwards....I see my grammar was pretty bad in that quoted post...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Anna on December 04, 2008, 01:40:51 AM
http://finance.google.com/finance?q=OTC:DEEP

All info on all traded stock is available on the internet of course.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: texasmom on December 04, 2008, 01:41:29 AM
I am guessing that the lawyer must be on the prosecution side
or he wouldn't be on the call roll.

Kermit has been saying for a long time that we should
stay focused and not be diverted by the witness.

Why would anyone want to divert attention away from
the trap and the "human remains" found there?
One of those diverting is Caps, one is John Silvetti and one
is Clyde Burke, of ALE.
How can you even say CAPS is a diverter?  He has worked so hard on this case...... Kermit is making you focus on her, and its all silly, and can not be proved in any way......Its really sad that you all are fixed on that one thing that can not even be shown as any kind of proof.  Yes by the way CAPS can not keep a connection with the internet.  YES they are onto him, and yes, he is still able to help where he can.  You guys are going to look really silly in the end for downing the people like silvetti, and Kyle, and CAPS.  There must be more to do with your time then pick on the ones who actually go out of their way to help.  I do not see anyone here going out there to actually help as these people did.  And by the way Kermit, do NOT post anymore of Beths letters.........She will not be a happy camper.  She already knows whats going on with that.
Hotshot,
I have always looked forward to your posts from the beginning, and those of CAPS and Kyle. But, the recent posts by Kermit and the interchanges btwn Kermit/CAPS/Kyle seem to weigh in favor of Kermit.
If you could be more clear on this post as to the meaning of this:
And by the way Kermit, do NOT post anymore of Beths letters.........She will not be a happy camper.  She already knows whats going on with that.
I think the innuendos (intentional or not) are really confusing.....Help me understand please.
Bill, I too talk with Beth, and she does not want to be posted here as to what is said in private.  Kermit asked Beth in a private letter is she wanted her to expose the corruption.......Beth thinking the corruption of Aruba......Kermit went and posted Beths reply that said sure or something to that effect....then Kermit comes out with all this outrageous stuff.  Beth wants in no way to have her personal emails on any sites....And thats as far as I am going with this.  You may have your opinions and side with Kermit, but think about this, really think about this...You really think these people went out to Aruba to scan for oil crap when they didnt even come close to Venezuela?  They left there for a reason, and if the pictures dont tell you why, I dont know what will....Persistance has what they need, and so do the FBI.  just because they are not talking doesnt mean they are not working.


I'm a few pages behind, so forgive me if this has already been asked.

I think when the ocean search finally started I actually thought and/or assumed that the purpose was to find Natalie and bring her home.  Period.  After being so jerked around by ALE, AHATA, etc. - they having no respect for the rule of law, the very last thing I expected was that if something was found it would be reported to ALE prior to recovery.

I just naturally assumed 'we' would play the game the way they'd been playing it if thats what it took.  I expected TES, Silvetti, et al - upon finding that trap to recover the evidence themselves surreptiously - whether that complied Aruban law or not.  Get it the evidence, bring it home to Beth and Dave, have it analyzed at a private facility - then, once the truth is finally known - turn it over to the FBI and apologize, "oops, we got confused, we just didn't understand their laws." 

They don't respect their rule of law, but we're supposed to?  At the price of truth and justice?

Did anyone else have the same expectation? 

I just can't believe that Dave and Beth, or esp. Tim Miller, actually agreed to turn over any evidence found to ALE.  Legal or illegal.


Lifesong,
From my understanding Tim Miller was not on board Persistence when the evidence was taken.  I hope this helps, I had the same reaction that you did when first trying to comprehend all of this.  I can't help but believe that it would not have happened the way it did had Tim Miller been on board; or he would have damn well tried to do something about it!  JMO


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Lifesong on December 04, 2008, 01:41:43 AM
I am guessing that the lawyer must be on the prosecution side
or he wouldn't be on the call roll.

Kermit has been saying for a long time that we should
stay focused and not be diverted by the witness.

Why would anyone want to divert attention away from
the trap and the "human remains" found there?
One of those diverting is Caps, one is John Silvetti and one
is Clyde Burke, of ALE.
How can you even say CAPS is a diverter?  He has worked so hard on this case...... Kermit is making you focus on her, and its all silly, and can not be proved in any way......Its really sad that you all are fixed on that one thing that can not even be shown as any kind of proof.  Yes by the way CAPS can not keep a connection with the internet.  YES they are onto him, and yes, he is still able to help where he can.  You guys are going to look really silly in the end for downing the people like silvetti, and Kyle, and CAPS.  There must be more to do with your time then pick on the ones who actually go out of their way to help.  I do not see anyone here going out there to actually help as these people did.  And by the way Kermit, do NOT post anymore of Beths letters.........She will not be a happy camper.  She already knows whats going on with that.
Hotshot,
I have always looked forward to your posts from the beginning, and those of CAPS and Kyle. But, the recent posts by Kermit and the interchanges btwn Kermit/CAPS/Kyle seem to weigh in favor of Kermit.
If you could be more clear on this post as to the meaning of this:
And by the way Kermit, do NOT post anymore of Beths letters.........She will not be a happy camper.  She already knows whats going on with that.
I think the innuendos (intentional or not) are really confusing.....Help me understand please.
Bill, I too talk with Beth, and she does not want to be posted here as to what is said in private.  Kermit asked Beth in a private letter is she wanted her to expose the corruption.......Beth thinking the corruption of Aruba......Kermit went and posted Beths reply that said sure or something to that effect....then Kermit comes out with all this outrageous stuff.  Beth wants in no way to have her personal emails on any sites....And thats as far as I am going with this.  You may have your opinions and side with Kermit, but think about this, really think about this...You really think these people went out to Aruba to scan for oil crap when they didnt even come close to Venezuela?  They left there for a reason, and if the pictures dont tell you why, I dont know what will....Persistance has what they need, and so do the FBI.  just because they are not talking doesnt mean they are not working.


I'm a few pages behind, so forgive me if this has already been asked.

I think when the ocean search finally started I actually thought and/or assumed that the purpose was to find Natalie and bring her home.  Period.  After being so jerked around by ALE, AHATA, etc. - they having no respect for the rule of law, the very last thing I expected was that if something was found it would be reported to ALE prior to recovery.

I just naturally assumed 'we' would play the game the way they'd been playing it if thats what it took.  I expected TES, Silvetti, et al - upon finding that trap to recover the evidence themselves surreptiously - whether that complied Aruban law or not.  Get it the evidence, bring it home to Beth and Dave, have it analyzed at a private facility - then, once the truth is finally known - turn it over to the FBI and apologize, "oops, we got confused, we just didn't understand their laws." 

They don't respect their rule of law, but we're supposed to?  At the price of truth and justice?

Did anyone else have the same expectation? 

I just can't believe that Dave and Beth, or esp. Tim Miller, actually agreed to turn over any evidence found to ALE.  Legal or illegal.


On this topic Lifesong.Go to Kermit's profile and read all the posts,as well as Oceanexploration.You will form your own opinion..

Thanks, Keepthefaith, but I've read them all.  Was here onsite when Kermit originally posted the pictures and participated in the discussion that day. 

I don't post much, haven't even logged in much again until recently, but I've been a monkey since June/July 2005. (I was here the 'zoo geeper' night with Bendix, Hat, etc.)

What were your expectations?  That the Persistance would grab the goods and come home, or that they'd call ALE and report that they'd found something?





Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Hotshot on December 04, 2008, 01:48:24 AM
You all seem to jump to conclusions that everything was handed over to the incompetent ALE.......  Did you ever stop to think that maybe there was a reason they took off so fast?  Do you really think they are that stupid to not cover their butts?  Hellooooo, Tim has been through it already, many times.  Loose lips do sink ships.  Maybe we are not supposed to be discussing those things here for everyone like Aruba to read.

keepthefaith, you have already made you decisions, i will let you wonder, your only going to believe what you want to believe anyway, and thats your choice. 

I am going to bed now.  good night!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Keepthefaith on December 04, 2008, 01:50:54 AM
I am guessing that the lawyer must be on the prosecution side
or he wouldn't be on the call roll.

Kermit has been saying for a long time that we should
stay focused and not be diverted by the witness.

Why would anyone want to divert attention away from
the trap and the "human remains" found there?
One of those diverting is Caps, one is John Silvetti and one
is Clyde Burke, of ALE.
How can you even say CAPS is a diverter?  He has worked so hard on this case...... Kermit is making you focus on her, and its all silly, and can not be proved in any way......Its really sad that you all are fixed on that one thing that can not even be shown as any kind of proof.  Yes by the way CAPS can not keep a connection with the internet.  YES they are onto him, and yes, he is still able to help where he can.  You guys are going to look really silly in the end for downing the people like silvetti, and Kyle, and CAPS.  There must be more to do with your time then pick on the ones who actually go out of their way to help.  I do not see anyone here going out there to actually help as these people did.  And by the way Kermit, do NOT post anymore of Beths letters.........She will not be a happy camper.  She already knows whats going on with that.
Hotshot,
I have always looked forward to your posts from the beginning, and those of CAPS and Kyle. But, the recent posts by Kermit and the interchanges btwn Kermit/CAPS/Kyle seem to weigh in favor of Kermit.
If you could be more clear on this post as to the meaning of this:
And by the way Kermit, do NOT post anymore of Beths letters.........She will not be a happy camper.  She already knows whats going on with that.
I think the innuendos (intentional or not) are really confusing.....Help me understand please.
Bill, I too talk with Beth, and she does not want to be posted here as to what is said in private.  Kermit asked Beth in a private letter is she wanted her to expose the corruption.......Beth thinking the corruption of Aruba......Kermit went and posted Beths reply that said sure or something to that effect....then Kermit comes out with all this outrageous stuff.  Beth wants in no way to have her personal emails on any sites....And thats as far as I am going with this.  You may have your opinions and side with Kermit, but think about this, really think about this...You really think these people went out to Aruba to scan for oil crap when they didnt even come close to Venezuela?  They left there for a reason, and if the pictures dont tell you why, I dont know what will....Persistance has what they need, and so do the FBI.  just because they are not talking doesnt mean they are not working.


I'm a few pages behind, so forgive me if this has already been asked.

I think when the ocean search finally started I actually thought and/or assumed that the purpose was to find Natalie and bring her home.  Period.  After being so jerked around by ALE, AHATA, etc. - they having no respect for the rule of law, the very last thing I expected was that if something was found it would be reported to ALE prior to recovery.

I just naturally assumed 'we' would play the game the way they'd been playing it if thats what it took.  I expected TES, Silvetti, et al - upon finding that trap to recover the evidence themselves surreptiously - whether that complied Aruban law or not.  Get it the evidence, bring it home to Beth and Dave, have it analyzed at a private facility - then, once the truth is finally known - turn it over to the FBI and apologize, "oops, we got confused, we just didn't understand their laws." 

They don't respect their rule of law, but we're supposed to?  At the price of truth and justice?

Did anyone else have the same expectation? 

I just can't believe that Dave and Beth, or esp. Tim Miller, actually agreed to turn over any evidence found to ALE.  Legal or illegal.


On this topic Lifesong.Go to Kermit's profile and read all the posts,as well as Oceanexploration.You will form your own opinion..

Thanks, Keepthefaith, but I've read them all.  Was here onsite when Kermit originally posted the pictures and participated in the discussion that day. 

I don't post much, haven't even logged in much again until recently, but I've been a monkey since June/July 2005. (I was here the 'zoo geeper' night with Bendix, Hat, etc.)

What were your expectations?  That the Persistance would grab the goods and come home, or that they'd call ALE and report that they'd found something?





"If" you have what you need!What are you now trying to accomplish??Who's corrupt and complicit in the cover-up??We have no jurisdiction in Aruba.Without cooperation from the Hague i don't think much will get accomplished other then the story being told which is what i would definitly appreciate.Sending all those rats to prison would be nice...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Lifesong on December 04, 2008, 01:56:38 AM


Yep, I posted it at the time it was happening as well and no one was in the least interested.  I do think some are confusing Silveti and Schaefer perhaps.

But in order for any of this to even matter, one has to first believe for a fact Natalee's remains were in that cage and I am just not convinced that they were.  Nor that they were dismembered and spread all over the place either as that's just too over the top.

And I sure don't understand why we are supposed to be guessing things like initials.

And I thought it was a physician who had the fake credentials and not a lawyer, maybe even the august and esteemed Boushi Wever but can't find anything on it.

Oh, well.  I will just lurk and read and see where all of this goes but can't really make sense of any of it that is believable to me.



Hooray, Anna!  I completely agree! 

I'm not necessarily of the opinion that Caps is anything but well-intentioned - I'm just not convinced that the connections he makes actually exist in the case.  And WTH is up with the guess the initials game - this is a murder case, not a board game.  All part of what makes Kermit more believable lately, imo.  At least she's posting clear, concise information that she's backing up with something other than "I know" or "I found out".

Let me ask you, if you're still online - last winter when the Persistance finally started the search, did you expect that if they found something they'd tell ALE before they grabbed it?  That's the sticking point for me - I don't believe Dave and Beth and Tim Miller would agree to the search under those conditions, even it was the law.  We certainly knew by then that if ALE got their hands on evidence it would disappear.  I thought they'd grab it, bring it home, and apologize later.  Still holding out hope that's what actually happened.











Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: SS on December 04, 2008, 01:58:09 AM
http://finance.google.com/finance?q=OTC:DEEP


When they left to look for Natalee the stock was trading at around $13.00 and soon was down to $0.16 and I think that is what caused the lawsuit.

Now what this has to do with anything related to Natalee, I can't make a connection.


I've read and posted this info and still can't make a connection that I believe.  I just have more questions, Anna.

I already said G'nite, but I'm still here...same o same o


Yep, I posted it at the time it was happening as well and no one was in the least interested.  I do think some are confusing Silveti and Schaefer perhaps.

But in order for any of this to even matter, one has to first believe for a fact Natalee's remains were in that cage and I am just not convinced that they were.  Nor that they were dismembered and spread all over the place either as that's just too over the top.

And I sure don't understand why we are supposed to be guessing things like initials.

And I thought it was a physician who had the fake credentials and not a lawyer, maybe even the august and esteemed Boushi Wever but can't find anything on it.

Oh, well.  I will just lurk and read and see where all of this goes but can't really make sense of any of it that is believable to me.






According to Kermit and based on an email from Kyle, Louis Schafer sold the photographs to an unnamed source for a documentary.  According to Kermit and based on an email from Kyle, he (Kyle) had discussed the sale of the photographs with several networks, a producer, and Peter de Vries.  This really makes me angry if these transactions were taking place before Beth and Dave or our FBI had any knowledge of the photographs or the contents of the cage. From what Kermit has told us, ALE didn't even know about the photographs.  I do have to admit that I would love to have been a mouse in the woodwork when Mos found out.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Anna on December 04, 2008, 01:58:52 AM
Whoa, I'm not jumping to any conclusions!  I still more or less stand by my old KISS theories.  Not sure ANY of this has anything factually to do with Natalee's disappearance.

One last thought then I am out for the night.

It is true we do NOT have ANY jurisdiction in Aruba of ANY kind.  If the case is closed against Joran or if it is closed completely, we do NOT have any right to do anything at all unless invited.

Natalee's family has filed to have the investigative material released to them should the case be officially closed but it would be up to an Aruban judge to grant that.

Unfortunately, they can close this case and we will never see what is in the official ALE files.  And we are not about to offend a sovereign nation that allows us our closest FOB to Chavez most especially with all the subversive activities which now include Russia.

So we will only ever see what they allow us to see.  Our only leverage is economic and against their tourist industry that has been hip deep in this since the onset and likely since the night Beth arrived in Aruba for the first time.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Lifesong on December 04, 2008, 02:02:37 AM
You all seem to jump to conclusions that everything was handed over to the incompetent ALE.......  Did you ever stop to think that maybe there was a reason they took off so fast?  Do you really think they are that stupid to not cover their butts?  Hellooooo, Tim has been through it already, many times.  Loose lips do sink ships.  Maybe we are not supposed to be discussing those things here for everyone like Aruba to read.

keepthefaith, you have already made you decisions, i will let you wonder, your only going to believe what you want to believe anyway, and thats your choice. 

I am going to bed now.  good night!

Hotshot, I don't think we're jumping to conclusions that everything was handed over to the incompetent ALE.  We were told that everything was handed over to the incompetent ALE!  Kyle told us that the Aruban divers dived from their own boat, recovered the evidence, and returned to their own boat.

I pray that's not the truth.  It's been my problem with the believability of the ocean search since the beginning.  Why go to the trouble at all in that case.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Keepthefaith on December 04, 2008, 02:03:04 AM
You all seem to jump to conclusions that everything was handed over to the incompetent ALE.......  Did you ever stop to think that maybe there was a reason they took off so fast?  Do you really think they are that stupid to not cover their butts?  Hellooooo, Tim has been through it already, many times.  Loose lips do sink ships.  Maybe we are not supposed to be discussing those things here for everyone like Aruba to read.

keepthefaith, you have already made you decisions, i will let you wonder, your only going to believe what you want to believe anyway, and thats your choice.  

I am going to bed now.  good night!


As you know more then i HotShot.what day officially did the Persistence leave the Dutch Antilles water's.You must remember.I live in Seattle.The Seahawks suck right now,the Sonics are now in Oklahoma City,The Washington Huskies have not won a Football game this year,the Mariners suck(hopefully that'll change).OK.You get the picture.Having a bad year.LOL.I'm truly looking for a positve end to the year..Nothing more,nothing less.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: SS on December 04, 2008, 02:05:23 AM
Hotshot - from the very beginning I have been one of the biggest supporters of Caps.  If I find out that he's been jerking us around, he's going right to the top of my fecal roster.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Anna on December 04, 2008, 02:06:57 AM
If the photographs were sold as Natalee's remains, where is the breaking news and resulting use of them in that regard?  Why did whomever bought them not use them for big bombshell ratings?
Are they just sitting on them after purchasing them for big bucks?  That makes no sense either.

I don't really have an opinion on what the crew of the Persistence would do if they thought they had found evidence but because nothing ever came of it, purloined or not, it tends to lean toward it not being Natalee in the cage, IMO.

In fact, we don't have any proof of her remains being anywhere or this case would be much closer to resolution.

JMO


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Keepthefaith on December 04, 2008, 02:09:04 AM
Hotshot - from the very beginning I have been one of the biggest supporters of Caps.  If I find out that he's been jerking us around, he's going right to the top of my fecal roster.

Me personally SS.I hold absolutely no ill will towards any Monkey.What are we without the ability to question???Sounds like the country of ARUBA..


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: SS on December 04, 2008, 02:11:18 AM
If the photographs were sold as Natalee's remains, where is the breaking news and resulting use of them in that regard?  Why did whomever bought them not use them for big bombshell ratings?
Are they just sitting on them after purchasing them for big bucks?  That makes no sense either.

I don't really have an opinion on what the crew of the Persistence would do if they thought they had found evidence but because nothing ever came of it, purloined or not, it tends to lean toward it not being Natalee in the cage, IMO.

In fact, we don't have any proof of her remains being anywhere or this case would be much closer to resolution.

JMO




You're absolutely correct, Anna.  We have no proof.  I have suspected that it could even be Jalitza Wever in the cage, but we have no way of knowing one way or the other, because ALE has the remains.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Lifesong on December 04, 2008, 02:34:02 AM
You all seem to jump to conclusions that everything was handed over to the incompetent ALE.......  Did you ever stop to think that maybe there was a reason they took off so fast?  Do you really think they are that stupid to not cover their butts?  Hellooooo, Tim has been through it already, many times.  Loose lips do sink ships.  Maybe we are not supposed to be discussing those things here for everyone like Aruba to read.

keepthefaith, you have already made you decisions, i will let you wonder, your only going to believe what you want to believe anyway, and thats your choice.  

I am going to bed now.  good night!


As you know more then i HotShot.what day officially did the Persistence leave the Dutch Antilles water's.You must remember.I live in Seattle.The Seahawks suck right now,the Sonics are now in Oklahoma City,The Washington Huskies have not won a Football game this year,the Mariners suck(hopefully that'll change).OK.You get the picture.Having a bad year.LOL.I'm truly looking for a positve end to the year..Nothing more,nothing less.


I'm not HotShot, but I did find an answer to your question.  Looks like the Persistence left on March 2, 2008.

"Below are some pictures of the Persistence leaving
Aruba and heading for home…
Godspeed to the crew."


http://blogsfornatalee.com/2008/03/02/tribute-to-the-rv-persistence/

and

Posted by LegallyLex:

It is with sadness that I am reporting to everyone that the Persistence leaves Aruba tomorrow heading for home. As you are aware, the side scan sonar search is complete. There are many many targets for the ROV to look at. Sadly, this will not happen with [...]


http://blogsfornatalee.com/2008/03/01/the-rv-persistence-to-leave-aruba/





Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: caesu on December 04, 2008, 03:16:40 AM
Aruban Justice Minister Rudy Croes confirms Police Chief Jan van der Straten has intentionally messed up the investigation in the first days to protect his friend Paul van der Sloot.

- arrested Joran and Kalpoe bros. only after 10 days
- Rudy Croes heard Jan van der Straten say: "I can't do this to my friend".
- a lot of phone communication between Jan and Paul
- a 2nd grade investigation team was used. "the team the used for carnaval" - meaning petty crimes.
- Rudy Croes wants a fresh investigation
- Paul and Jan helped each other 'as Dutch friends'.

further:

- he criticizes the Dutch gov. for not giving moral support to Aruba while Aruba's name gets besmudged internationally.
- Dutch gov. wanted Aruba to hide as much as possible that Joran was Dutch.
- Joran had to appear as an Aruba - a Dutch minister personally requested this. (Rudy Croes won't give the minster's name). > reminds me of the Most Wanted program, the actor playing Joran was dark skinned.

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/2714185/___Politie_hielp_Paul_van_der_Sloot___.html


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: EURobert on December 04, 2008, 03:30:40 AM
http://tinyurl.com/5dpgee

Google transl.

DADDY VAN DER SLOOT HELPED JORAN

The Dutchman Jan van der Straten in 2005 as Police in Aruba in the Natalee Holloway case was put, the research in the early stages seriously hindered. This to his friend Paul van der Sloot to help protect his son Joran who was suspected of involvement in the disappearance of the U.S..

This has the Aruban Justice Minister Rudy Croes confirmed Thursday. The allegation already circulating on the island. The minister has agreed to come outside because Van der streets this week in the media criticism voiced at the Aruban police force.

Aware

According to Croes, it seems that the old Police Joran and two other defendants knowingly pick up only after ten days, “while the first crucial days in a disappearance case”. In an interview heard the Minister Van der Straten then say: ‘This is my friend Paul that.”Croes finds it suspicious that when there was a lot of telephone traffic between Paul van der Sloot and van der Straten investigator. Van der Straten would be a further, second-team”police have deployed, just after Natales disappearance. ‘That was the inflection team, a team that is deployed”during carnival, light Croes again. He wants a new investigation comes to the role of Van der Straten and Van der Sloot: If two Dutch friends, Paul and Jan helped each other.”

Criticism

Also on the Dutch government from the Aruban Minister some criticism. ‘Until this day we get no international moral support of the Netherlands, while the Aruban name is sullied. In 2005, we were asked if possible to suppress that Joran is a Dutchman. He had as many as possible Aruban. It has a Dutch minister I am not saying who-personally invited.”


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Frank on December 04, 2008, 03:39:16 AM
caesu,

Any way to get a feel for the 150 comments after the article?

It's the Dirty Police after all. Maybe Rudy Croes is breaking down or something, it sounds like he's telling the truth actually.

Wonder if Joe T. can confirm those calls since he's seen the police files?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: johan555 on December 04, 2008, 03:41:05 AM
(http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh25/johan555/22-1.jpg?t=1228380017)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: EURobert on December 04, 2008, 03:52:15 AM
caesu,

Any way to get a feel for the 150 comments after the article?

It's the Dirty Police after all. Maybe Rudy Croes is breaking down or something, it sounds like he's telling the truth actually.

Wonder if Joe T. can confirm those calls since he's seen the police files?

"It's a corrupt mess up there."
"This whole thing stinks."
"I knew this Daddy VdS knew more..."
"The Netherlands never take their responsibility; look at these leftist bastards in The Hague."
"This whole thing stinks; this is the Lie and Cheat Inc."
and so on.......


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: caesu on December 04, 2008, 03:57:37 AM
caesu,

Any way to get a feel for the 150 comments after the article?

It's the Dirty Police after all. Maybe Rudy Croes is breaking down or something, it sounds like he's telling the truth actually.

Wonder if Joe T. can confirm those calls since he's seen the police files?

most comments are along the lines: "we already knew", "one big corrupt island", "i hope now finally the truth will come to light", "joran and has dad should have been behind bars a long time ago", "and: who is this Dutch minister (who wanted that Joran was portrayed as a Aruban)".

as for Rudy Croes:

in the article it says that Croes came out about this because Jan vd Straten was negative about the Aruban Police Force.
so it seems like he wants to put all blame on the Dutch.

he has said in the past many things to offend the Dutch Gov.
he even said he hated his Dutch passport.

i hope this gets some follow ups in the Dutch media.
and also who this Dutch minister was.
it could lead to some more political problems between The Hague and Aruba.
i hope that will happen. open up the can of wurms.
i am sure at least the PVV (Hero Brinkman) will get in on it.

but if i have to make a prediction: i think Rudy Croes might backtrack - say he was misquoted.
then have a chat with Ank Bijleveld or Hirsch Ballin, and the cover up is back in place again - for time being.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Frank on December 04, 2008, 04:07:48 AM
if it wasn't so sick and savage it would be a joke, like some schoolyard argument.

"Mr. Tacopina, can you confirm that there were phone calls between van der straaten and your client in the first days after Natalee went missing?"

"Enough about that Dana, let's talk about my friend Steve Cohen and that evil Greta."



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: johan555 on December 04, 2008, 04:14:21 AM
They have to arrest these bastards !!!

(http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh25/johan555/22-1.jpg?t=1228380017)

They have to arrest these bastards !!!

Vd straten use the policte team(unit ) what they normaly use for carnival !!!!!!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Sharon/Tx on December 04, 2008, 06:05:00 AM
I cannot imagine for the life of me going on and on wondering where my daughter was let alone all that has happened with the twists and turns.  If Peter Devries can uncover Joran's crap (sorry) why can't our FBI?  I believe the U.S. and our FBI owe it to this family to put an end to this madness and it is sickening how long it has gone on.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: EURobert on December 04, 2008, 06:49:29 AM

...

i hope this gets some follow ups in the Dutch media.

...


I totally agree with you Caesu. And to push some of the Dutch media a little you can email to these addresses:

NOS Nieuws (National News): nosbinnenland@nos.nl

Netwerk (Newsshow): redactie@netwerk.tv

Eén Vandaag (Newsshow): redactie@eenvandaag.nl

RTL Nieuws (click in the ‘email’ in the ‘Tip de redactie’-box): http://tinyurl.com/6s9wcw

Hart van Nederland (Newsshow): hart@sbs.nl.

----------------------------------------------------------

http://tinyurl.com/6p6ywh

Police helped Van der Sloot

(Google and me)

A Dutch police officer has deliberately delayed the investigation into the disappearance of Natalee Holloway in Aruba.
Justice on Thursday confirmed that Aruba Police Commissioner Jan van der Straten has deliberately delayed the investigation into her disappearance to protect his friend Paul van der Sloot and his son Joran. The Minister of Justice in Aruba with this came out after Jan van der Straten had expressed criticism on the police force of Aruba. In addition, the minister also had some criticism at the Dutch Government. That would have tried as long as possible to keep hidden that Joran had the Dutch nationality.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: ldstlou on December 04, 2008, 06:49:49 AM
Morning Johan! I was just about to post the article and you beat me again!! lol  Great job...this is so huge!!! They are starting to turn on each other!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: ldstlou on December 04, 2008, 06:56:09 AM

...

i hope this gets some follow ups in the Dutch media.

...


I totally agree with you Caesu. And to push some of the Dutch media a little you can email to these addresses:

NOS Nieuws (National News): nosbinnenland@nos.nl

Netwerk (Newsshow): redactie@netwerk.tv

Eén Vandaag (Newsshow): redactie@eenvandaag.nl

RTL Nieuws (click in the ‘email’ in the ‘Tip de redactie’-box): http://tinyurl.com/6s9wcw

Hart van Nederland (Newsshow): hart@sbs.nl.

----------------------------------------------------------

http://tinyurl.com/6p6ywh

Police helped Van der Sloot

(Google and me)

A Dutch police officer has deliberately delayed the investigation into the disappearance of Natalee Holloway in Aruba.
Justice on Thursday confirmed that Aruba Police Commissioner Jan van der Straten has deliberately delayed the investigation into her disappearance to protect his friend Paul van der Sloot and his son Joran. The Minister of Justice in Aruba with this came out after Jan van der Straten had expressed criticism on the police force of Aruba. In addition, the minister also had some criticism at the Dutch Government. That would have tried as long as possible to keep hidden that Joran had the Dutch nationality.


I think it did. This was the first article I received...then translated.

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/2714185/___Politie_hielp_Paul_van_der_Sloot___.html?p=2,1

Donderdag 4 december

'Politie hielp Paul van der Sloot in Holloway-zaak'

Een uur geleden (A)Sociaal Nieuws.ORANJESTAD -  De Nederlander Jan van der Straten die in 2005 als politiecommissaris op Aruba op de Natalee Holloway-zaak werd gezet, heeft het onderzoek in de beginfase ernstig gehinderd. Dit om zijn vriend Paul van der Sloot te helpen bij het beschermen van zijn zoon Joran die ervan werd verdacht betrokken te zijn bij de verdwijning van de Amerikaanse.

Dit heeft de Arubaanse minister van Justitie Rudy Croes donderdag bevestigd. De aantijging circuleerde al eerder op het eiland. De bewindsman is ermee naar buiten gekomen omdat Van der Straten deze week in de media kritiek uitte op het Arubaanse politiekorps.

Volgens Croes lijkt het erop dat de oud-politiecommissaris Joran en twee andere verdachten bewust pas na tien dagen oppakte, "terwijlde eerste dagen cruciaal zijn bij een verdwijningszaak". In een gesprek hoorde de minister Van der Straten destijds zeggen: "Dit kan ik mijn vriend Paul niet aandoen." Croes vindt het verdacht dat er toen veel telefoonverkeer was tussen Paul van der Sloot en onderzoeksleider Van der Straten. Van der Straten zou verder een "tweederangs politieteam" hebben ingezet, vlak na Natalees verdwijning. "Dat was het flexiteam; een team dat ingezet wordt tijdens carnaval", licht Croes toe. Hij wil dat er een nieuw onderzoek komt naar de rol van Van der Straten en Van der Sloot: "Als twee Nederlandse vrienden hebben Paul en Jan elkaar geholpen."

Ook op de Nederlandse regering uit de Arubaanse minister enige kritiek. "Tot op de dag van vandaag krijgen we internationaal geen morele steun van Nederland, terwijl de Arubaanse naam wordt bezoedeld. In 2005 werd ons gevraagd zo goed mogelijk te verzwijgen dat Joran een Nederlander is. Hij moest zoveel mogelijk voorkomen als Arubaan. Dat heeft een Nederlandse minister -ik zeg niet wie- persoonlijk verzocht."


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: cubbeegirl on December 04, 2008, 07:21:07 AM
Quote
 Can you believe they were even mentioning that maybe he didnt even have a baby, and maybe he didnt even name her natalee?  WOW, thats hateful.
--------------------------------------------------------------------

I don't remember seeing anything like that posted here but I might have missed it.
 

It was Klaas.  I wouldn't be so upset about it if it didnt happen.  Kyle is obviously not going to stick up for himself, someone has to.  If I knew how to search here, I'd find you that quote, but I think you are better at it then I, so I will let you do that.  Trust me, it was said.  


To be honest i believe i read the same thing.It would more then likely have came after the exchange over the cage pictures Klass if that helps your search at all..for what it's worth..

Klaas, I honestly remember reading that post too....


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: cubbeegirl on December 04, 2008, 07:23:52 AM
They have to arrest these bastards !!!

(http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh25/johan555/22-1.jpg?t=1228380017)

They have to arrest these bastards !!!

Vd straten use the policte team(unit ) what they normaly use for carnival !!!!!!!


WOW!... this article actually gives me hope again!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: ldstlou on December 04, 2008, 07:27:37 AM
Quote
 Can you believe they were even mentioning that maybe he didnt even have a baby, and maybe he didnt even name her natalee?  WOW, thats hateful.
--------------------------------------------------------------------

I don't remember seeing anything like that posted here but I might have missed it.
 

It was Klaas.  I wouldn't be so upset about it if it didnt happen.  Kyle is obviously not going to stick up for himself, someone has to.  If I knew how to search here, I'd find you that quote, but I think you are better at it then I, so I will let you do that.  Trust me, it was said.  


To be honest i believe i read the same thing.It would more then likely have came after the exchange over the cage pictures Klass if that helps your search at all..for what it's worth..

Klaas, I honestly remember reading that post too....

I think someone has an agenda, that is jmho...I can't even comment on it anymore, it upsets me so badly.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: cubbeegirl on December 04, 2008, 07:29:38 AM
Hotshot - from the very beginning I have been one of the biggest supporters of Caps.  If I find out that he's been jerking us around, he's going right to the top of my fecal roster.

Me personally SS.I hold absolutely no ill will towards any Monkey.What are we without the ability to question???Sounds like the country of ARUBA..

I agree with your sentiments keepthefaith!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: WhiskeyGirl on December 04, 2008, 07:31:45 AM
I don't believe that Beth objected to Kermit posting a one word
email with no address on it.
I don't believe that Natalee was cut into pieces.  Joran
nor any of the pimps have the balls to do that.

I keep an open mind.

I have to wonder, who would cut someone into pieces to avoid getting caught?  Who might have disposed of the body?  Who is bifrons?

People do all kinds of things to avoid getting caught.  Sometimes, they lie too.

jmho


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Blonde on December 04, 2008, 07:34:47 AM
We do have pictures. I clearly remember a video of Tim looking at the cage and divers going down to have a closer look. They indicated it wasn't Natalee. I know I saw that! Does anyone else remember it?
CBB you are ssooo cute here I have been working on this thread.I will add Kermits post.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4145.0


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: ldstlou on December 04, 2008, 07:36:00 AM
They have to arrest these bastards !!!

(http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh25/johan555/22-1.jpg?t=1228380017)

They have to arrest these bastards !!!

Vd straten use the policte team(unit ) what they normaly use for carnival !!!!!!!


WOW!... this article actually gives me hope again!
Me too!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: ldstlou on December 04, 2008, 07:38:10 AM
We do have pictures. I clearly remember a video of Tim looking at the cage and divers going down to have a closer look. They indicated it wasn't Natalee. I know I saw that! Does anyone else remember it?
CBB you are ssooo cute here I have been working on this thread.I will add Kermits post.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4145.0


I hope someone finds the pics. Maybe it will finally put an end to slamming the men and women of the Persistance who worked so hard to find Natalee and sacrificed so much.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: ldstlou on December 04, 2008, 07:39:50 AM
We do have pictures. I clearly remember a video of Tim looking at the cage and divers going down to have a closer look. They indicated it wasn't Natalee. I know I saw that! Does anyone else remember it?
CBB you are ssooo cute here I have been working on this thread.I will add Kermits post.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4145.0


I hope someone finds the pics. Maybe it will finally put an end to slamming the men and women of the Persistance who worked so hard to find Natalee and sacrificed so much.

Wow Blonde, you have been hard at work! You are amazing!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Blonde on December 04, 2008, 07:41:26 AM
OK...I'll try this one.
They were not really there to look for Natalee, but to map
the ocean between Aruba and Venezuela.
They found the cage early Christmas morning.  Tim Miller
and ABC were on the boat at the time.
They sent Tim and Dave on the false lead to Costa Rica to Nicaragua
get Tim off the boat.  ABC went home.
They say that they did not dive on the cage until Jan7th
when the Aruban divers went down from their boat and
retrieved all the evidence to their boat.  Nobody objected.
There are pictures here of all the evidence in plastic bags.
Silvetti and Scheafer didn't want the contents of the trap known
because they wanted to continue with their mapping project
under the guise of hunting for Natalee.


So do we know that ALE even has the evidence or does one of the grave robbers potentially have the contents???Just a thought...
Well, isn't the date of the ROV pics of the cage with "bagged" evidence dated on Jan. 7th? That was when ALE collected the evidence. I would assume ALE has it all -- but who knows for sure????


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: ldstlou on December 04, 2008, 07:49:49 AM
http://finance.google.com/finance?q=OTC:DEEP


When they left to look for Natalee the stock was trading at around $13.00 and soon was down to $0.16 and I think that is what caused the lawsuit.

Now what this has to do with anything related to Natalee, I can't make a connection.


I've read and posted this info and still can't make a connection that I believe.  I just have more questions, Anna.

I already said G'nite, but I'm still here...same o same o


Yep, I posted it at the time it was happening as well and no one was in the least interested.  I do think some are confusing Silveti and Schaefer perhaps.

But in order for any of this to even matter, one has to first believe for a fact Natalee's remains were in that cage and I am just not convinced that they were.  Nor that they were dismembered and spread all over the place either as that's just too over the top.

And I sure don't understand why we are supposed to be guessing things like initials.

And I thought it was a physician who had the fake credentials and not a lawyer, maybe even the august and esteemed Boushi Wever but can't find anything on it.

Oh, well.  I will just lurk and read and see where all of this goes but can't really make sense of any of it that is believable to me.






According to Kermit and based on an email from Kyle, Louis Schafer sold the photographs to an unnamed source for a documentary.  According to Kermit and based on an email from Kyle, he (Kyle) had discussed the sale of the photographs with several networks, a producer, and Peter de Vries.  This really makes me angry if these transactions were taking place before Beth and Dave or our FBI had any knowledge of the photographs or the contents of the cage. From what Kermit has told us, ALE didn't even know about the photographs.  I do have to admit that I would love to have been a mouse in the woodwork when Mos found out.

I remember getting slammed for bringing over a a nasty IM someone had sent to me...I was told e-mails and IM's were private and not to be posted. Is Kyle's private e-mails to someone being posted w/out his permission? Beth's also?

I don't believe for one minute that Beth approved of her e-mail being splashed at SM. We have no way of knowing the context of what was being discussed either, other than an "Aruban cover-up"....as in the article that just came out today? Was that the "cover-up they were discussing? We have no way of knowing what "cover-up" they were discussing.
I do know if I sent a private e-mail to someone and found out it's contents were on SM, I would be highly upset. I call "FOUL PLAY"!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: ldstlou on December 04, 2008, 07:58:02 AM
OK...I'll try this one.
They were not really there to look for Natalee, but to map
the ocean between Aruba and Venezuela.
They found the cage early Christmas morning.  Tim Miller
and ABC were on the boat at the time.
They sent Tim and Dave on the false lead to Costa Rica to Nicaragua
get Tim off the boat.  ABC went home.
They say that they did not dive on the cage until Jan7th
when the Aruban divers went down from their boat and
retrieved all the evidence to their boat.  Nobody objected.
There are pictures here of all the evidence in plastic bags.
Silvetti and Scheafer didn't want the contents of the trap known
because they wanted to continue with their mapping project
under the guise of hunting for Natalee.


So do we know that ALE even has the evidence or does one of the grave robbers potentially have the contents???Just a thought...
Well, isn't the date of the ROV pics of the cage with "bagged" evidence dated on Jan. 7th? That was when ALE collected the evidence. I would assume ALE has it all -- but who knows for sure????

I thought Kyle explained clearly the "mapping process" of a ship and that the movements of the Persistance do not indicate any mapping was going on. There are plenty of Monkeys who know Tim Miller well enough to call him or e-mail him this "theory". I would love to hear what HIS thoughts are on the "conspiracy theory". Would someone please contact Tim Miller?!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Frijole on December 04, 2008, 08:11:15 AM
Morning monkeys!!!

Thanks to the Dutch posters for the article... I hope that they are starting to turn on each other.  It's the only way to bring out the cover up and solve this thing.

Keep it in the press, force them to turn on each other, people spying on Joran and posting his location.... maybe "Lady Justice" will prevail after all these years. 

I'm not sure which theory to believe anymore either.  After all these years of reading I just know that Natalee was last seen with the 3 goons and something bad happened.  The more Joran is shown talking, gambling, abusing women the more the public will demand this case be resolved.  It's international now.  He is truly a man without a country.  I do believe he is trying to "out" Paulus. 

So let 'em all talk.  Keep it in the news.  I think we are near the end.  There appears to be more going on than ever before in the case.  Regardless, I'll stand by the girl.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: MumInOhio on December 04, 2008, 08:14:59 AM
We do have pictures. I clearly remember a video of Tim looking at the cage and divers going down to have a closer look. They indicated it wasn't Natalee. I know I saw that! Does anyone else remember it?
CBB you are ssooo cute here I have been working on this thread.I will add Kermits post.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4145.0


I hope someone finds the pics. Maybe it will finally put an end to slamming the men and women of the Persistance who worked so hard to find Natalee and sacrificed so much.


Lisa I have always respected  your opinion and posts, but we are all entitled to our own.  This is mine, subject to change, as new information arises.

Kyle’s own posts have what has started the scrutiny…Below is a classic example.  From reading his posts I found he lurked constantly, probably still is.
 
If you read the thread that Texasmom posted the link to on page 24 of the previous thread you will see posts that some smart Monkeys commented on Kyle’s change of demeanor in his posts.  This was IMO when he started asking case related questions, mentioned seeing the Kalpoes, and “we met with Patrick”.  He also mentions that he was on the East coast trying to sell some photos around the time of the Dateline show.

He also mentions on at least 4 occasions that things are going to get interesting! Also mentions the pond being “searched”, back in February…Did he misspeak, again…or is it one of the things referred to below.

Granted we each take different things from these posts, but if Kyle is as clever as he thinks he is, he should have found another means of communication other than an open forum. Private emails and phone calls are two things that come to mind…heck by his own admissions he was in the States…ALE couldn’t track him…maybe the FBI…LOL


Natalee Holloway / LCD Archive / Re: Natalee Case Discussion #739 3/3 -
on: March 03, 2008, 01:12:57 PM OE


I have done my homework. Not all that I posted is geared journalistically.  Some things I had written were specifically geared to send a message.  At times, this message was for only a few people.  This post at SM "praising Aruban authorities" was done with contextual purpose. Eveything I write ends up being read by people who are extremely interested and close to the case.  In context, we (the search team) needed to rapidly gain the trust and cooperation of the Aruban authorities.  Before we arrived, here was no trust, little cooperation, and no sharing of information. Take this for what it's worth:  Keep your friends close and your enemies closer.  Also, don't make assumptions about what I have or have not read.

Not all that I write is my true feelings but is aimed at true purpose. Not everything is clear or should be taken just at face value.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: MumInOhio on December 04, 2008, 08:17:01 AM
http://finance.google.com/finance?q=OTC:DEEP


When they left to look for Natalee the stock was trading at around $13.00 and soon was down to $0.16 and I think that is what caused the lawsuit.

Now what this has to do with anything related to Natalee, I can't make a connection.


I read the Aruban cover-up being the cover-up since 2005...JMO on this

I've read and posted this info and still can't make a connection that I believe.  I just have more questions, Anna.

I already said G'nite, but I'm still here...same o same o


Yep, I posted it at the time it was happening as well and no one was in the least interested.  I do think some are confusing Silveti and Schaefer perhaps.

But in order for any of this to even matter, one has to first believe for a fact Natalee's remains were in that cage and I am just not convinced that they were.  Nor that they were dismembered and spread all over the place either as that's just too over the top.

And I sure don't understand why we are supposed to be guessing things like initials.

And I thought it was a physician who had the fake credentials and not a lawyer, maybe even the august and esteemed Boushi Wever but can't find anything on it.

Oh, well.  I will just lurk and read and see where all of this goes but can't really make sense of any of it that is believable to me.






According to Kermit and based on an email from Kyle, Louis Schafer sold the photographs to an unnamed source for a documentary.  According to Kermit and based on an email from Kyle, he (Kyle) had discussed the sale of the photographs with several networks, a producer, and Peter de Vries.  This really makes me angry if these transactions were taking place before Beth and Dave or our FBI had any knowledge of the photographs or the contents of the cage. From what Kermit has told us, ALE didn't even know about the photographs.  I do have to admit that I would love to have been a mouse in the woodwork when Mos found out.

I remember getting slammed for bringing over a a nasty IM someone had sent to me...I was told e-mails and IM's were private and not to be posted. Is Kyle's private e-mails to someone being posted w/out his permission? Beth's also?

I don't believe for one minute that Beth approved of her e-mail being splashed at SM. We have no way of knowing the context of what was being discussed either, other than an "Aruban cover-up"....as in the article that just came out today? Was that the "cover-up they were discussing? We have no way of knowing what "cover-up" they were discussing.
I do know if I sent a private e-mail to someone and found out it's contents were on SM, I would be highly upset. I call "FOUL PLAY"!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: MumInOhio on December 04, 2008, 08:25:48 AM
Sorry Lisa ...looks like I lost my post...It was something about the context of the Aruban cover-up...I took it as the cover-up from 2005 onwards...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: WhiskeyGirl on December 04, 2008, 08:26:26 AM
Hotshot - from the very beginning I have been one of the biggest supporters of Caps.  If I find out that he's been jerking us around, he's going right to the top of my fecal roster.

Me personally SS.I hold absolutely no ill will towards any Monkey.What are we without the ability to question???Sounds like the country of ARUBA..

I agree with your sentiments keepthefaith!

Here are the things that sound like some people that have tried to derail the case -

Blame the family for derailing the investigation and it's failure to find Natalee.  

Blame the family and insinuate there was some kind of family conspiracy / coverup with regards to Natalee, her friends, famililies, and her reason for being in Aruba.

Link the family to AmSouth, metals, and other financial involvement.  Insinuate that they were involved in some kind of wrongdoing.

Blame the searchers and insinuate there was some kind of searcher conspiracy / coverup with regards to their efforts to find Natalee.  

Why aren't these same people demanding action from Aruba on this latest coverup / conspiracy?  Why focus only on the searchers?

Were the distractions attempts to recover body parts that were dumped years ago?  Maybe a piece in the pond, moko, SA, and who knows how many other places.  Divert & divide.  No body parts / no case.  How many body parts would be needed to make a case that she is dead, she ain't coming back no more?  How many body parts to make a case that Joran was the last one seen with her?  Anyone see Natalee after the Kalpoes dropper JVDS and NH off (anywhere)?  

If she's been in that easy to find location for years, why didn't Aruba find her with the F-16's?  Has the F-16 data been made public?  I'm thinking the use of that data may have shortened the identification of all those targets.  IMHO, many targets remain.

Aruba is an island surrounded by water.  How many are still out there in Aruba?  How many will continue to wash up bone by bone on Aruban beaches?  Was Natalee the tip of the iceberg?

What is Aruba doing to fight corruption on the island?  It doesn't do any good to talk about crime, coverups, and corruption if you choose to remain silent and do nothing to fix it or work to make it better.  I think restoring paradise may take a while, but it is a worthy goal for any community.  

Is there a special US State Department (or the like) warning for tourists going to countries known to engage in human trafficking, drug related killings/rapes/murders, related corruption/coverup, or are just dangerous?  There are at least three missing - Amy Bradley, Max DeVries, & Natalee Holloway.  

In my "simple brain" that should scare the pants off Aruba.  How many times can one person confess to horrible things and keep walking free?  How many times can a nation blame the family or say it was insurance fraud?  Who wants to vacation in such a place?  I'd rather go to a place known for it's warm weather, great beaches, and hospitality.    

Look at the efforts to find Marlies van der Kouwe and return her to family.  Will there ever be resolution for the family of Natalee Holloway?

I have hopes that whatever is going on, even if I do not know the details, will result in peace for Natalees family and friends.

just my humble opinions


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Rob on December 04, 2008, 08:47:31 AM
HIGHER UPS

Is all so apparent to me that van der Straaten and others in th polis force recovered Natalee. I've been yammerin' about this for over three years. I know I sound like a broken record, really I do.

This case was always about more than Joran, Paulus and the Kalpoes. It was always about the corrupt dirty police.

Now where the heck is Natalee? Give her back and were one in the blink of an eye. They repair their image and we all move on.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: MumInOhio on December 04, 2008, 09:14:31 AM
Not the sharpest knife in the drawer, so I will ask the question...

If all this that has been posted since November 13th - Kermit's post - is so sensitive and can harm the investigation, why wasn't it been stopped?



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: wreck on December 04, 2008, 09:21:40 AM
Hotshot - from the very beginning I have been one of the biggest supporters of Caps.  If I find out that he's been jerking us around, he's going right to the top of my fecal roster.

Me personally SS.I hold absolutely no ill will towards any Monkey.What are we without the ability to question???Sounds like the country of ARUBA..
I don't either.
Yes, I have thought Natalee was found by the Persistence back in late December. As far as disagreeing with Hotshot -- I don't ever remember that until VERY recently. From the time I made my feelings known early in the year -- I have pretty much kept quiet. I believed that the FBI and the family knew very well (and had the evidence). I thought they were merely setting a snare for the guilty. Kermit's posts woke me up! It appears now that the FBI was NOT given EVERYTHING until very recently. That is where I am troubled. As for CAPS, I really don't have much of an opinion -- I don't read Shango. He may very well be on to useful evidence that ties EVERYTHING together -- I don't know. The whole timing issue of Tim Miller being lured off the Persistence has me worried. I hope the "pond" is not another diversion.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Blonde on December 04, 2008, 09:22:56 AM


Quote
Hotshot - I have always been a supporter of Caps.  I don't know that I can now say the same for some of those who were on Persistence.  Kermit has shown us so much proof and Kyle and produced nothing in his own defense.  You said that Beth is not happy that Kermit exposed her letters and she knows what's going on.  Can you please explain that a little more.  Kermit led us to believe that he had Bath's permission to expose the photographs and cover up.  Do we have incorrect information?
Beth gave her ok to expose Aruba "period".  Beth would never give the OK to hurt someone who has tried to help bring closure.  We should all know beth by now, and she is not a hateful person.   kermit has shown nothing but private emails, that may have been changed prior to her posting them.  kyle already stated a few threads back, he is done with this show, and is no longer posting here.  i don't blame him.  Can you believe they were even mentioning that maybe he didnt even have a baby, and maybe he didnt even name her natalee?  WOW, thats hateful.

 OK so your thinking that when Kermit asked Beth can I expose Aruba.
Beth said sure, she didn't know it would be the cage pictures?
So do you think Kermit did not explain to Beth what she was going to expose. ::MonkeyShocked::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: ldstlou on December 04, 2008, 09:27:14 AM
We do have pictures. I clearly remember a video of Tim looking at the cage and divers going down to have a closer look. They indicated it wasn't Natalee. I know I saw that! Does anyone else remember it?
CBB you are ssooo cute here I have been working on this thread.I will add Kermits post.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4145.0


I hope someone finds the pics. Maybe it will finally put an end to slamming the men and women of the Persistance who worked so hard to find Natalee and sacrificed so much.


Lisa I have always respected  your opinion and posts, but we are all entitled to our own.  This is mine, subject to change, as new information arises.

Kyle’s own posts have what has started the scrutiny…Below is a classic example.  From reading his posts I found he lurked constantly, probably still is.
 
If you read the thread that Texasmom posted the link to on page 24 of the previous thread you will see posts that some smart Monkeys commented on Kyle’s change of demeanor in his posts.  This was IMO when he started asking case related questions, mentioned seeing the Kalpoes, and “we met with Patrick”.  He also mentions that he was on the East coast trying to sell some photos around the time of the Dateline show.

He also mentions on at least 4 occasions that things are going to get interesting! Also mentions the pond being “searched”, back in February…Did he misspeak, again…or is it one of the things referred to below.

Granted we each take different things from these posts, but if Kyle is as clever as he thinks he is, he should have found another means of communication other than an open forum. Private emails and phone calls are two things that come to mind…heck by his own admissions he was in the States…ALE couldn’t track him…maybe the FBI…LOL


Natalee Holloway / LCD Archive / Re: Natalee Case Discussion #739 3/3 -
on: March 03, 2008, 01:12:57 PM OE


I have done my homework. Not all that I posted is geared journalistically.  Some things I had written were specifically geared to send a message.  At times, this message was for only a few people.  This post at SM "praising Aruban authorities" was done with contextual purpose. Eveything I write ends up being read by people who are extremely interested and close to the case.  In context, we (the search team) needed to rapidly gain the trust and cooperation of the Aruban authorities.  Before we arrived, here was no trust, little cooperation, and no sharing of information. Take this for what it's worth:  Keep your friends close and your enemies closer.  Also, don't make assumptions about what I have or have not read.

Not all that I write is my true feelings but is aimed at true purpose. Not everything is clear or should be taken just at face value.



Mum, you know I totally respect you and your opinon too. We're Buckeye fans!! You know we rock!! lol

I don't have any problem at all either with exploring every avenue in Natalee's case. Have we ever in our lives seen a conspiracy since JFK? And there IS a cover up and there was a conspiracy to hind the facts and the truth. As Aruba implodes upon itself, and the rats start ratting each other out..so to speak..Beth, Dave Jug, Jug's friends, the Monkeys, we will finally be vindicated!! I was so excited about this mornings article!! The truth is finally coming out.

What bothers me, is keeping a fair playing field. We have always kept our integrity in the search for the truth unlike Aruba and another board we all know of..(hint RU)

I went to Jug about the allegations, he said no way!! It ticked him off it was even being discussed. I asked if I had permission to quote him, he agreed. When I did, I was attacked..and really...so was Jug with comments like.."since when does Jug speak for Beth". Not everyone has to agree, but if Jug says "No way" I believe him...no need to attack the messenger.

The other thing that really bothers me is private e-mails being posted publicaly without permission. I was taught here...cause ya know I didn't know the rules when I started!!! lol...that private e-mails and im's were not to be posted. In addition, we really don't know the context of those private coorespondences. This is what makes me most suspect and upset about the theory. Does that make sense?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Blonde on December 04, 2008, 09:30:05 AM
This one?

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/persist.jpg)



Yes Klaas, thank you so much, that's it.  Do you also have the one of the recent family wedding where he was wearing a grey suit?


Remember Kyle did not want to give his name.



oceanexploration
Scared Monkey

 Offline

Posts: 211
           Re: Natalee Case Discussion #776 11/19-08
« Reply #623 on: Today at 04:00:07 PM »   Quote Modify Remove Split Topic

Quote from: SS on November 19, 2008, 08:37:02 PM
John Silvetti - red shirt
Dolf Richardson
Hans Mos

Who are the others?

BTW, this is certainly NOT John Silvetti.  I do not know this man.  He was with the Arubans who came on board for the Dec-30th meeting.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4153.620


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: ldstlou on December 04, 2008, 09:32:19 AM
Hotshot - from the very beginning I have been one of the biggest supporters of Caps.  If I find out that he's been jerking us around, he's going right to the top of my fecal roster.

Me personally SS.I hold absolutely no ill will towards any Monkey.What are we without the ability to question???Sounds like the country of ARUBA..

I agree with your sentiments keepthefaith!

Here are the things that sound like some people that have tried to derail the case -

Blame the family for derailing the investigation and it's failure to find Natalee.  

Blame the family and insinuate there was some kind of family conspiracy / coverup with regards to Natalee, her friends, famililies, and her reason for being in Aruba.

Link the family to AmSouth, metals, and other financial involvement.  Insinuate that they were involved in some kind of wrongdoing.

Blame the searchers and insinuate there was some kind of searcher conspiracy / coverup with regards to their efforts to find Natalee.  

Why aren't these same people demanding action from Aruba on this latest coverup / conspiracy?  Why focus only on the searchers?

Were the distractions attempts to recover body parts that were dumped years ago?  Maybe a piece in the pond, moko, SA, and who knows how many other places.  Divert & divide.  No body parts / no case.  How many body parts would be needed to make a case that she is dead, she ain't coming back no more?  How many body parts to make a case that Joran was the last one seen with her?  Anyone see Natalee after the Kalpoes dropper JVDS and NH off (anywhere)?  

If she's been in that easy to find location for years, why didn't Aruba find her with the F-16's?  Has the F-16 data been made public?  I'm thinking the use of that data may have shortened the identification of all those targets.  IMHO, many targets remain.

Aruba is an island surrounded by water.  How many are still out there in Aruba?  How many will continue to wash up bone by bone on Aruban beaches?  Was Natalee the tip of the iceberg?

What is Aruba doing to fight corruption on the island?  It doesn't do any good to talk about crime, coverups, and corruption if you choose to remain silent and do nothing to fix it or work to make it better.  I think restoring paradise may take a while, but it is a worthy goal for any community.  

Is there a special US State Department (or the like) warning for tourists going to countries known to engage in human trafficking, drug related killings/rapes/murders, related corruption/coverup, or are just dangerous?  There are at least three missing - Amy Bradley, Max DeVries, & Natalee Holloway.  

In my "simple brain" that should scare the pants off Aruba.  How many times can one person confess to horrible things and keep walking free?  How many times can a nation blame the family or say it was insurance fraud?  Who wants to vacation in such a place?  I'd rather go to a place known for it's warm weather, great beaches, and hospitality.    

Look at the efforts to find Marlies van der Kouwe and return her to family.  Will there ever be resolution for the family of Natalee Holloway?

I have hopes that whatever is going on, even if I do not know the details, will result in peace for Natalees family and friends.

just my humble opinions


wow Whiskeygirl...great post!!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: ldstlou on December 04, 2008, 09:35:41 AM


Quote
Hotshot - I have always been a supporter of Caps.  I don't know that I can now say the same for some of those who were on Persistence.  Kermit has shown us so much proof and Kyle and produced nothing in his own defense.  You said that Beth is not happy that Kermit exposed her letters and she knows what's going on.  Can you please explain that a little more.  Kermit led us to believe that he had Bath's permission to expose the photographs and cover up.  Do we have incorrect information?
Beth gave her ok to expose Aruba "period".  Beth would never give the OK to hurt someone who has tried to help bring closure.  We should all know beth by now, and she is not a hateful person.   kermit has shown nothing but private emails, that may have been changed prior to her posting them.  kyle already stated a few threads back, he is done with this show, and is no longer posting here.  i don't blame him.  Can you believe they were even mentioning that maybe he didnt even have a baby, and maybe he didnt even name her natalee?  WOW, thats hateful.

 OK so your thinking that when Kermit asked Beth can I expose Aruba.
Beth said sure, she didn't know it would be the cage pictures?
So do you think Kermit did not explain to Beth what she was going to expose. ::MonkeyShocked::


Do you want my opinion?  I can give it to you but you probably already know it is.
I think the biggest point is we don't know! This was supposed to be "proof" that Beth agreed...I say Really? It gave me more questions than it did proof and that is why I called Jug.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Magnolia on December 04, 2008, 09:36:32 AM


Quote
Hotshot - I have always been a supporter of Caps.  I don't know that I can now say the same for some of those who were on Persistence.  Kermit has shown us so much proof and Kyle and produced nothing in his own defense.  You said that Beth is not happy that Kermit exposed her letters and she knows what's going on.  Can you please explain that a little more.  Kermit led us to believe that he had Bath's permission to expose the photographs and cover up.  Do we have incorrect information?
Beth gave her ok to expose Aruba "period".  Beth would never give the OK to hurt someone who has tried to help bring closure.  We should all know beth by now, and she is not a hateful person.   kermit has shown nothing but private emails, that may have been changed prior to her posting them.  kyle already stated a few threads back, he is done with this show, and is no longer posting here.  i don't blame him.  Can you believe they were even mentioning that maybe he didnt even have a baby, and maybe he didnt even name her natalee?  WOW, thats hateful.

 OK so your thinking that when Kermit asked Beth can I expose Aruba.
Beth said sure, she didn't know it would be the cage pictures?
So do you think Kermit did not explain to Beth what she was going to expose. ::MonkeyShocked::


Blonde, I think if you read Hotshot's post carefully, those are just Hotshot's
opinions.  I believe that Beth would contact Red if she was upset about
Kermit's post.
I admitted several pages back that I posted the question about Kyle's
baby.  It was my way of saying Can we believe anything he says?
I was very disappointed in Kyle.  I had believed in him.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Blonde on December 04, 2008, 09:37:10 AM
Quote
 Can you believe they were even mentioning that maybe he didnt even have a baby, and maybe he didnt even name her natalee?  WOW, thats hateful.
--------------------------------------------------------------------

I don't remember seeing anything like that posted here but I might have missed it.
 

It was Klaas.  I wouldn't be so upset about it if it didnt happen.  Kyle is obviously not going to stick up for himself, someone has to.  If I knew how to search here, I'd find you that quote, but I think you are better at it then I, so I will let you do that.  Trust me, it was said.  


To be honest i believe i read the same thing.It would more then likely have came after the exchange over the cage pictures Klass if that helps your search at all..for what it's worth..

Kyle did name his baby Natalee.  I think it was around April or May.

Well with so many smart monkeys it wouldn't be had to find this out.
Did Kyle have a baby?
Did Kyle name her Natalee?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Kyle Kingman’s Experience
Senior Geophysical Operations Manager
Alpine Ocean Seismic Survey Inc.
(Oil & Energy industry)

October 2008 — Present (3 months)

Manager
Kingman Geophysical Solutions
(Oil & Energy industry)

May 2004 — October 2008 (4 years 6 months)
-snipped-


http://www.linkedin.com/pub/b/65/464


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: MumInOhio on December 04, 2008, 09:40:50 AM
Lisa...Perfect sense...I have tried to read it all and did read all your posts to Kermit.

Lots of posts have made sense on both sides...Really not sure what to think! ::MonkeyConfused::

Kyle's posts have me really confused.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: the big hammer on December 04, 2008, 09:41:35 AM
Statement Issued On Radio Netherlands Worldwide

Police head hindered Holloway investigation


Published: Thursday 04 December 2008 10:28 UTC
Last updated: Thursday 04 December 2008 10:35 UTC

The Aruban Minister of Justice, Rudy Croes, has told the ANP news agency that the investigation into the 2005 disappearance of Natalee Holloway was severely hindered in its initial stages by the island’s Dutch police commissioner. Mr Croes said former commissioner Jan van de Straten did this to help his friend Paul van der Sloot, the father of the chief suspect in the US high school graduate’s disappearance.

Mr Croes also said that Mr Van de Straten appeared to have made a conscious decision not to arrest Joran van der Sloot and two other suspects until ten days after Ms Holloway disappeared, even though the first few days are crucial in such an investigation. He went on to say that Mr Van de Straten and Mr Van der Sloot conducted lengthy telephone conversations after the disappearance and that the commissioner deployed a team of second-rank officers to investigate it.

Mr Croes added that a Dutch minister had asked the Aruban authorities to conceal as much as possible the fact that Joran van der Sloot was Dutch.

________________________________________________________________

Very clear and unmistakeable accusation here, provided with corroborated attribution and pointing directly to a named individual -- in this case former Aruba polis chief Jan van der Stratten.

This represents REAL movement in this case, and should leave door open for charges which we have talked about here for years:

Obstruction of Justice
Failure to Perform
Police and Judicial Misconduct.

With a statement like this out there now, it appears that an investigation into a coverup MUST be done.

See the link to Greta wire (if this has been posted earlier -- apologies).

http://gretawire.foxnews.com/

.
 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: ldstlou on December 04, 2008, 09:41:50 AM
HIGHER UPS

Is all so apparent to me that van der Straaten and others in th polis force recovered Natalee. I've been yammerin' about this for over three years. I know I sound like a broken record, really I do.

This case was always about more than Joran, Paulus and the Kalpoes. It was always about the corrupt dirty police.

Now where the heck is Natalee? Give her back and were one in the blink of an eye. They repair their image and we all move on.

I agree too Rob!!! within that first week...or was it the 10th of June? No way they would have been so confident from the get-go with the cover-up unless they had Natalee early on. We have always suspected Natalee was found early, and then disposed of permanetly.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Lala'sMom on December 04, 2008, 09:42:53 AM
Finally!!  I was thinking everyone was going to gloss over one of the most important things that Greta got from Joran in her interview....the implication of polis in this case!!  Joran names two police officers that looked the other way and claims they were paid by Paulus to do so and we have spent days on cage contents that at this point in time can never be proven were ever there without jeopardizing other things in the works. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: ldstlou on December 04, 2008, 09:43:00 AM
Statement Issued On Radio Netherlands Worldwide

Police head hindered Holloway investigation


Published: Thursday 04 December 2008 10:28 UTC
Last updated: Thursday 04 December 2008 10:35 UTC

The Aruban Minister of Justice, Rudy Croes, has told the ANP news agency that the investigation into the 2005 disappearance of Natalee Holloway was severely hindered in its initial stages by the island’s Dutch police commissioner. Mr Croes said former commissioner Jan van de Straten did this to help his friend Paul van der Sloot, the father of the chief suspect in the US high school graduate’s disappearance.

Mr Croes also said that Mr Van de Straten appeared to have made a conscious decision not to arrest Joran van der Sloot and two other suspects until ten days after Ms Holloway disappeared, even though the first few days are crucial in such an investigation. He went on to say that Mr Van de Straten and Mr Van der Sloot conducted lengthy telephone conversations after the disappearance and that the commissioner deployed a team of second-rank officers to investigate it.

Mr Croes added that a Dutch minister had asked the Aruban authorities to conceal as much as possible the fact that Joran van der Sloot was Dutch.

________________________________________________________________

Very clear and unmistakeable accusation here, provided with corroborated attribution and pointing directly to a named individual -- in this case former Aruba polis chief Jan van der Stratten.

This represents REAL movement in this case, and should leave door open for charges which we have talked about here for years:

Obstruction of Justice
Failure to Perform
Police and Judicial Misconduct.

With a statement like this out there now, it appears that an investigation into a coverup MUST be done.

See the link to Greta wire (if this has been posted earlier -- apologies).

http://gretawire.foxnews.com/

.
 


we always knew it was van der straaten!!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: WhiskeyGirl on December 04, 2008, 09:49:30 AM
I believe in the good intentions and hard work of Tim Miller, Louis Schaefer, John Silvetti, Persistence & her crew, Kyle, Jossy Mansur, and all the folks that keep the focus on finding Natalee.  I wasn't there in Aruba and I have to trust that good people are keeping her memory safe.

No one person can do everything, everyone can do something.  Sometimes I may not know why things happen, but I do believe they have a purpose. 

All things come in God's time.

What does the FBI have to say of these latest revelations regarding the cage?  Beth's lawyer in Holland?  Dr. Phil & his team?  Joe T.?  US State Department?

How does Joran's latest confession affect all those travel agents that have promoted Aruba in the past?  Will they continue to do so? 

I guess I'll be patient and see how things unfold.

jmho
 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: ldstlou on December 04, 2008, 09:51:04 AM
Lisa...Perfect sense...I have tried to read it all and did read all your posts to Kermit.

Lots of posts have made sense on both sides...Really not sure what to think! ::MonkeyConfused::

Kyle's posts have me really confused.

As his e-mails are posted, I am bothered too!! But I think he is guilty of making some bad decisions at most, not that Natalee was recovered in that cage. But again, we don't know the context or to whom those e-mails were sent to so we don't know what was going on.

When Kyle was on the Persistance we watched him go back and forth with all the info he was trying to absorb and his posts. I got super ticked off at one point and I am pretty sure it was Klaas who told me to relax...lol...that he was young... had no idea he was in his early 20's...and that he didn't know the history that we did.

Is he perfect...no...has he always made the right decisions..who does...but I don't believe they found Natalee in that cage, I don't believe for one minute, as bad as Tim wanted to bring Natalee home, that the members of the Persistance were able to pull one over on him...ad I don't believe Kyle is involved in a cover-up..nor the other members of the Crew.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Lala'sMom on December 04, 2008, 09:52:53 AM
Dirty Hand.....Dirty Hand!!!!!  Why does no one ever listen to me??? Why?? Why?? :roll: :roll:


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: ldstlou on December 04, 2008, 09:55:15 AM
Dirty Hand.....Dirty Hand!!!!!  Why does no one ever listen to me??? Why?? Why?? :roll: :roll:

rofl...I listen!! Love ya Girl!!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: ldstlou on December 04, 2008, 09:56:09 AM
I believe in the good intentions and hard work of Tim Miller, Louis Schaefer, John Silvetti, Persistence & her crew, Kyle, Jossy Mansur, and all the folks that keep the focus on finding Natalee.  I wasn't there in Aruba and I have to trust that good people are keeping her memory safe.

No one person can do everything, everyone can do something.  Sometimes I may not know why things happen, but I do believe they have a purpose. 

All things come in God's time.

What does the FBI have to say of these latest revelations regarding the cage?  Beth's lawyer in Holland?  Dr. Phil & his team?  Joe T.?  US State Department?

How does Joran's latest confession affect all those travel agents that have promoted Aruba in the past?  Will they continue to do so? 

I guess I'll be patient and see how things unfold.

jmho
 

I agree!!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Lala'sMom on December 04, 2008, 10:00:34 AM
Dirty Hand.....Dirty Hand!!!!!  Why does no one ever listen to me??? Why?? Why?? :roll: :roll:

rofl...I listen!! Love ya Girl!!!

Yes, but when everyone keeps beating you over the head with that dead horse stick it begins to hurt.  I have spent years in Shango...and who told us there was a dirty hand???? Who leaned us toward a crooked cop???   Who??  Who?? Shango....cha cha...cha cha cha...shango..shango..shango....anyone want to dance?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Lala'sMom on December 04, 2008, 10:06:13 AM
Wow!!  I can clear a room!  ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: ldstlou on December 04, 2008, 10:07:04 AM
Wow!!  I can clear a room!  ::MonkeyHaHa::

you crack me up!!! I am still here. Was that article exciting or what????!!!
Finally!! Vindication!!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Lala'sMom on December 04, 2008, 10:08:15 AM
They have to arrest these bastards !!!

(http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh25/johan555/22-1.jpg?t=1228380017)

They have to arrest these bastards !!!

Vd straten use the policte team(unit ) what they normaly use for carnival !!!!!!!


Would that be the black team? 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Ree on December 04, 2008, 10:08:16 AM
I read a lot, but seldom post. I don't know if Kermit or CAPS is right or perhaps both are wrong.  But I know that we are told at work, that if you don't want something passed around or made public, don't put it in an email.  If Beth has an issue with something posted, she knows how to fix it.  As far as Jug's comments about the Persistance crew, if Jug had all the answers this would have been solved already.  Therefore, we have the right to discuss anybody who puts themselves into the mix.  Just MHO.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: klaasend on December 04, 2008, 10:09:07 AM
Morning Johan! I was just about to post the article and you beat me again!! lol  Great job...this is so huge!!! They are starting to turn on each other!!

YES, I just hope something comes of it!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Lala'sMom on December 04, 2008, 10:09:57 AM
Wow!!  I can clear a room!  ::MonkeyHaHa::

you crack me up!!! I am still here. Was that article exciting or what????!!!
Finally!! Vindication!!!

Oh I am just getting started...if you don't like Shango you better take your leave now...I will be in and out all day...and no one but Klaas can stop me now. It's Shango time!   ::MonkeyTongue::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: klaasend on December 04, 2008, 10:10:37 AM
Dirty Hand.....Dirty Hand!!!!!  Why does no one ever listen to me??? Why?? Why?? :roll: :roll:

Lala's you know I listen.  So does HAMMER.  He was shouting corruption before the rest.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Ree on December 04, 2008, 10:11:23 AM
I can't help but think that a lot of the little things going on behind the scenes are actually an orchestrated effort by several parties to put the heat on.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Lala'sMom on December 04, 2008, 10:14:46 AM
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:42 pm
Arawaks hold singing card from babylon
There is also a trio. One Babylonian. 2 Shivas.
Arawaks can’t let babylonian Card sing because hand holding it dirty too.
Many teepees fall. No Wampum.
Cowboys eat Sacrifice. Arawaks eat sacrifice.
Dirty hand stays hidden, but all are well-fed.
Cowboys happy, but unrest in the halls of the palace
Babylon owes the Arawaks!



Joran....Babylonian card
Arawaks....ALE

Translation:  ALE can not let Joran tell what he knows because the person in charge has been paid to keep quiet.

Well fed....well paid to keep their mouths shut!!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: ldstlou on December 04, 2008, 10:14:55 AM
Morning Johan! I was just about to post the article and you beat me again!! lol  Great job...this is so huge!!! They are starting to turn on each other!!

YES, I just hope something comes of it!

Me too...walking around with a big grin on my face!! I think they are imploding!!! lol


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Lala'sMom on December 04, 2008, 10:15:25 AM
Dirty Hand.....Dirty Hand!!!!!  Why does no one ever listen to me??? Why?? Why?? :roll: :roll:

Lala's you know I listen.  So does HAMMER.  He was shouting corruption before the rest.

I know...I just want to see Paulus in handcuffs....


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: ldstlou on December 04, 2008, 10:15:44 AM
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:42 pm
Arawaks hold singing card from babylon
There is also a trio. One Babylonian. 2 Shivas.
Arawaks can’t let babylonian Card sing because hand holding it dirty too.
Many teepees fall. No Wampum.
Cowboys eat Sacrifice. Arawaks eat sacrifice.
Dirty hand stays hidden, but all are well-fed.
Cowboys happy, but unrest in the halls of the palace
Babylon owes the Arawaks!



Joran....Babylonian card
Arawaks....ALE

Translation:  ALE can not let Joran tell what he knows because the person in charge has been paid to keep quiet.

Well fed....well paid to keep their mouths shut!!!

Hey!! shango is FINALLY making sense to me!! lol


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Lala'sMom on December 04, 2008, 10:16:11 AM
I can't help but think that a lot of the little things going on behind the scenes are actually an orchestrated effort by several parties to put the heat on.

Exactly!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: ldstlou on December 04, 2008, 10:16:43 AM
Dirty Hand.....Dirty Hand!!!!!  Why does no one ever listen to me??? Why?? Why?? :roll: :roll:

Lala's you know I listen.  So does HAMMER.  He was shouting corruption before the rest.

I know...I just want to see Paulus in handcuffs....

oh...would that be a pretty sight!!!!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: wreck on December 04, 2008, 10:17:23 AM
Lisa...Perfect sense...I have tried to read it all and did read all your posts to Kermit.

Lots of posts have made sense on both sides...Really not sure what to think! ::MonkeyConfused::

Kyle's posts have me really confused.

As his e-mails are posted, I am bothered too!! But I think he is guilty of making some bad decisions at most, not that Natalee was recovered in that cage. But again, we don't know the context or to whom those e-mails were sent to so we don't know what was going on.

When Kyle was on the Persistance we watched him go back and forth with all the info he was trying to absorb and his posts. I got super ticked off at one point and I am pretty sure it was Klaas who told me to relax...lol...that he was young... had no idea he was in his early 20's...and that he didn't know the history that we did.

Is he perfect...no...has he always made the right decisions..who does...but I don't believe they found Natalee in that cage, I don't believe for one minute, as bad as Tim wanted to bring Natalee home, that the members of the Persistance were able to pull one over on him...ad I don't believe Kyle is involved in a cover-up..nor the other members of the Crew.
Well, even Hotshot appears to believe that Natalee was found by the Persistence. The disagreement is WHEN they informed the FBI and family.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: ldstlou on December 04, 2008, 10:17:46 AM
I can't help but think that a lot of the little things going on behind the scenes are actually an orchestrated effort by several parties to put the heat on.

Exactly!!

I know they are. All this is no accident. It was hard work by a lot of people for that past year.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: klaasend on December 04, 2008, 10:19:52 AM
Dirty Hand.....Dirty Hand!!!!!  Why does no one ever listen to me??? Why?? Why?? :roll: :roll:

Lala's you know I listen.  So does HAMMER.  He was shouting corruption before the rest.

I know...I just want to see Paulus in handcuffs....

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub5/Sweatyrunningman-new2-1.gif)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Lala'sMom on December 04, 2008, 10:21:18 AM
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:22 pm
Because the fallen judge agreed, he can sing any song he wants
A poisonous siren in the halls of babylon
He will sing to keep doors open, much to the cowboys distress



Because Paulus was involved from the beginning he has the power. He may seem a simpleton to some but he knows where all the skeletons are buried (no pun intended) he can dictate how this investigation goes and he can continue to control things because of what he did and what he knows.  When you pay people...you have control over these people regardless of who wants to know the truth.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: ldstlou on December 04, 2008, 10:21:47 AM
Dirty Hand.....Dirty Hand!!!!!  Why does no one ever listen to me??? Why?? Why?? :roll: :roll:

Lala's you know I listen.  So does HAMMER.  He was shouting corruption before the rest.

I know...I just want to see Paulus in handcuffs....

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub5/Sweatyrunningman-new2-1.gif)


roflmao!!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: WhiskeyGirl on December 04, 2008, 10:23:03 AM


Quote
Hotshot - I have always been a supporter of Caps.  I don't know that I can now say the same for some of those who were on Persistence.  Kermit has shown us so much proof and Kyle and produced nothing in his own defense.  You said that Beth is not happy that Kermit exposed her letters and she knows what's going on.  Can you please explain that a little more.  Kermit led us to believe that he had Bath's permission to expose the photographs and cover up.  Do we have incorrect information?
Beth gave her ok to expose Aruba "period".  Beth would never give the OK to hurt someone who has tried to help bring closure.  We should all know beth by now, and she is not a hateful person.   kermit has shown nothing but private emails, that may have been changed prior to her posting them.  kyle already stated a few threads back, he is done with this show, and is no longer posting here.  i don't blame him.  Can you believe they were even mentioning that maybe he didnt even have a baby, and maybe he didnt even name her natalee?  WOW, thats hateful.

 OK so your thinking that when Kermit asked Beth can I expose Aruba.
Beth said sure, she didn't know it would be the cage pictures?
So do you think Kermit did not explain to Beth what she was going to expose. ::MonkeyShocked::


Was the recent coverup directed towards Aruba or the Persistence Search? 

Maybe silence means that the Dutch/Aruban government are really going to do something. 

How many facts have been presented along with those pictures?  not many, imho

I believe there is much I do not know, few if any facts.  Lots of posts making links that have no backup--example would be John Silvetti and Louis Schaefer. 

I will wait to see if something new comes from all of this.  Perhaps someone was checking the evidence connection in Aruba and phone records.

jmho


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: klaasend on December 04, 2008, 10:24:26 AM
By the way, if it's not postponed again Kalpoe vs. Dr. Phil:

Future Hearings

12/04/2008 at 08:30 am in department 69 at 111 North Hill Street, Los Angeles, CA 90012

Motion to Compel (Further Interrogatory Responses and Production of Documents (4);
2) Second Motion to Dismiss andRequest for Terminating Sanctions
3) Case Management Conference)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: wreck on December 04, 2008, 10:25:13 AM
Why are we so excited that "shango" was correct about ALE corruption?????? Didn't we ALL know that from the very first week??? I think some of you think that "shango" has "mystical powers". He may be an "informant" -- but he ain't magic.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: wreck on December 04, 2008, 10:33:09 AM
I can clear the room with the best of them!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: klaasend on December 04, 2008, 10:34:32 AM
http://www.amigoe.com/artman/publish/artikel_50090.php


It just won't go away   ::MonkeyHaHa::

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub5/mosqmonkey.jpg)

Amigoe English
MPA: new, dangerous specie of mosquito in Aruba
3 Dec, 2008, 08:11 (GMT -04:00)


ORANJESTAD — The MPA has again demanded an explanation from Minister Booshi Wever of Public Health, Environment, Administrative-, and Immigration Affairs about the control of insects that are dangerous for the public health. The opposition party received confirmation that there is a new species of mosquito on the island that is more dangerous than the mosquitoes infected with dengue.

 
The Minister doesn’t say what the species is. MPA has learned that some people have already been stung by these mosquitoes and that they have become ill. Besides, the Public Health Department is aware of these cases. MPA therefore demands clarity from the Minister and demands that the people be informed as soon as possible.

It must not be a repeat of 2005 when the Minister told the people at the end of that year that the number of dengue-cases was not alarming. After reports in the media, he had to admit that the figures were indeed concerning. He was forced to call in the international public health information (PAHO) to help combat the epidemic.

MPA has already criticized the policy of the Minister before: the island is inspected twice every year (PAHO advices four times) for possible breakout places. “The Public Health Department has already expressed its concern and Minister Wever has admitted that the government does not comply with these international standards. MPA has requested the Minister to do so, but strangely enough, he is not making any effort to increase the number of inspections”, concludes party-leader Monica Kock.

 




Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Lala'sMom on December 04, 2008, 10:34:36 AM
Why are we so excited that "shango" was correct about ALE corruption?????? Didn't we ALL know that from the very first week??? I think some of you think that "shango" has "mystical powers". He may be an "informant" -- but he ain't magic.

I am trying nicely to answer your ugly post...but I may not be able to. That comment was totally uncalled for toward me. Shango does not have magic powers.  Until recently I was still trying to figure out who he was.  Shango was not an informant...Shango wanted to hear himself talk and while talking told us things that continue to fit into this entire fiasco in Aruba. I suggest you stay in your world and I will in mine...if you do not like Shango discussion then scroll on by that is what I usually do with your posts. 



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Lala'sMom on December 04, 2008, 10:37:12 AM
http://www.amigoe.com/artman/publish/artikel_50090.php


It just won't go away   ::MonkeyHaHa::

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub5/mosqmonkey.jpg)

Amigoe English
MPA: new, dangerous specie of mosquito in Aruba
3 Dec, 2008, 08:11 (GMT -04:00)


ORANJESTAD — The MPA has again demanded an explanation from Minister Booshi Wever of Public Health, Environment, Administrative-, and Immigration Affairs about the control of insects that are dangerous for the public health. The opposition party received confirmation that there is a new species of mosquito on the island that is more dangerous than the mosquitoes infected with dengue.

 
The Minister doesn’t say what the species is. MPA has learned that some people have already been stung by these mosquitoes and that they have become ill. Besides, the Public Health Department is aware of these cases. MPA therefore demands clarity from the Minister and demands that the people be informed as soon as possible.

It must not be a repeat of 2005 when the Minister told the people at the end of that year that the number of dengue-cases was not alarming. After reports in the media, he had to admit that the figures were indeed concerning. He was forced to call in the international public health information (PAHO) to help combat the epidemic.

MPA has already criticized the policy of the Minister before: the island is inspected twice every year (PAHO advices four times) for possible breakout places. “The Public Health Department has already expressed its concern and Minister Wever has admitted that the government does not comply with these international standards. MPA has requested the Minister to do so, but strangely enough, he is not making any effort to increase the number of inspections”, concludes party-leader Monica Kock.

 




Plague...pestilence...drought...corruption...evil...I think this could be biblical.  ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: MumInOhio on December 04, 2008, 10:37:35 AM
I can't help but think that a lot of the little things going on behind the scenes are actually an orchestrated effort by several parties to put the heat on.

Exactly!!

I know they are. All this is no accident. It was hard work by a lot of people for that past year.


I have a timeline...still working on it ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: MumInOhio on December 04, 2008, 10:39:42 AM
Why are we so excited that "shango" was correct about ALE corruption?????? Didn't we ALL know that from the very first week??? I think some of you think that "shango" has "mystical powers". He may be an "informant" -- but he ain't magic.

I am trying nicely to answer your ugly post...but I may not be able to. That comment was totally uncalled for toward me. Shango does not have magic powers.  Until recently I was still trying to figure out who he was.  Shango was not an informant...Shango wanted to hear himself talk and while talking told us things that continue to fit into this entire fiasco in Aruba. I suggest you stay in your world and I will in mine...if you do not like Shango discussion then scroll on by that is what I usually do with your posts. 



Do we have the same Shango? Jeez I would like to be right , just once!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Lala'sMom on December 04, 2008, 10:40:50 AM
Why are we so excited that "shango" was correct about ALE corruption?????? Didn't we ALL know that from the very first week??? I think some of you think that "shango" has "mystical powers". He may be an "informant" -- but he ain't magic.

I am trying nicely to answer your ugly post...but I may not be able to. That comment was totally uncalled for toward me. Shango does not have magic powers.  Until recently I was still trying to figure out who he was.  Shango was not an informant...Shango wanted to hear himself talk and while talking told us things that continue to fit into this entire fiasco in Aruba. I suggest you stay in your world and I will in mine...if you do not like Shango discussion then scroll on by that is what I usually do with your posts. 



Do we have the same Shango? Jeez I would like to be right , just once!

I thought so. LOL 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: wreck on December 04, 2008, 10:41:03 AM
Why are we so excited that "shango" was correct about ALE corruption?????? Didn't we ALL know that from the very first week??? I think some of you think that "shango" has "mystical powers". He may be an "informant" -- but he ain't magic.

I am trying nicely to answer your ugly post...but I may not be able to. That comment was totally uncalled for toward me. Shango does not have magic powers.  Until recently I was still trying to figure out who he was.  Shango was not an informant...Shango wanted to hear himself talk and while talking told us things that continue to fit into this entire fiasco in Aruba. I suggest you stay in your world and I will in mine...if you do not like Shango discussion then scroll on by that is what I usually do with your posts. 


Take what you want from what I said. I have absolutely no regards for Shango. Shango could have put an end to this fiasco 3 1/2 years ago but instead kept everyone "dancing".


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: ldstlou on December 04, 2008, 10:42:30 AM
not sure what it says..but probably not something nice! lol

Rudy Croes and Jan Van der Stratten

the unique cu have cu carga responsabilidad for cuerpo policial is minister rudy croes
friday, 28 november 2008

oranjestad – the problem more earnest cu have cuerpo policial as cu the is according ex comisario jan vd straten is cu owing to stop cu his declaration of policy of reorganisacion. “e declaration of policy have to owing to follow. owing to stop this or the la cai for of hand. my not know. the train have to sigui” vd straten owing to declara at good morning aruba.

this is reaccion of the ex comisario on the.o. declaracion of minister rudy croes cu the week here still owing to declara cu the problem in cuerpo policial is debi at the ml work of jan vd straten cu the will owing to let behind. on comentario of minister of husticia cu vd straten do not serve, the ex comisario was breve. according vd straten, con can cu
cu the tabatei, now rudy croes owing to achieve is good for critica his work. “awor are you talk of dje? ai not, leumai.

i do not go in discusion cu minister of husticia” vd straten owing to tell provided that breve. the is let the mandatario of husticia carga his own responsabilidad. “mi do not go in discusion. the is the unique person cu have cu carga responsabilidad for her cuerpo, y not van der straten, neither one another hende” the ex comisario owing to follow tell.

aworaki according vd straten can owing to compronde have one reogranisacion tumando lugar for thing is the barionan, y according vd straten is much important for this take lugar. have to know that is in district, y that is thief y that is haci bad. aumento of criminalidad is follow aumenta in end of year y because; such is important for police is visible on caya. the mature cu the plan do not funciona is because owing to stop the plan of vd straten according the ex comisario owing to let know.

time of alwin nectar y jan vd straten because; comisario they owing to work on one good plan. now is siguiendo cu one reorganisacion but they're haciendo this at they as. for fix the situation, percura for do you have more person trahando, usando the recursonan as

was one day anterior cu minister of husticia owing to critica actuacion of pasado of jan vd straten severamente. owing to show cu is thanks at the bad work of vd straten cu today the cuerpo is as cu the is.

http://www.bondia.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3207&Itemid=





Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Lala'sMom on December 04, 2008, 10:43:14 AM
Simian Says: June 25th, 2005 at 8:21 pm
The Simian knows the Babylonians. They need to plan the legal checkmate perfectly. They know that the elder knows his way around the palace. All gates need to be shut.

The Hindus don’t know that the elder knows what happened. They thought they did the boy a favor by protecting him. The Hindus don’t know what happened.

The cowboys gave themselves 10 days. One down.


Paulus was in control from the beginning...paid the authorities.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: wreck on December 04, 2008, 10:46:38 AM
Simian Says: June 25th, 2005 at 8:21 pm
The Simian knows the Babylonians. They need to plan the legal checkmate perfectly. They know that the elder knows his way around the palace. All gates need to be shut.

The Hindus don’t know that the elder knows what happened. They thought they did the boy a favor by protecting him. The Hindus don’t know what happened.

The cowboys gave themselves 10 days. One down.


Paulus was in control from the beginning...paid the authorities.
Which proves my point -- he knew and did NOTHING.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: klaasend on December 04, 2008, 10:51:44 AM
Simian Says: June 25th, 2005 at 8:21 pm
The Simian knows the Babylonians. They need to plan the legal checkmate perfectly. They know that the elder knows his way around the palace. All gates need to be shut.

The Hindus don’t know that the elder knows what happened. They thought they did the boy a favor by protecting him. The Hindus don’t know what happened.

The cowboys gave themselves 10 days. One down.


Paulus was in control from the beginning...paid the authorities.
Which proves my point -- he knew and did NOTHING.

Yes, he knew and did nothing except give hints on the internet.  He was an a**, a whimp, a chicken.  Nobody is saying he was a great guy.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: MumInOhio on December 04, 2008, 10:52:11 AM
Simian Says: June 25th, 2005 at 8:21 pm
The Simian knows the Babylonians. They need to plan the legal checkmate perfectly. They know that the elder knows his way around the palace. All gates need to be shut.

The Hindus don’t know that the elder knows what happened. They thought they did the boy a favor by protecting him. The Hindus don’t know what happened.

The cowboys gave themselves 10 days. One down.


Paulus was in control from the beginning...paid the authorities.
Which proves my point -- he knew and did NOTHING.


Just  thought...Maybe he has had a change of heart!  Hmmmmmm!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Lala'sMom on December 04, 2008, 10:53:46 AM
Simian Says: June 25th, 2005 at 8:21 pm
The Simian knows the Babylonians. They need to plan the legal checkmate perfectly. They know that the elder knows his way around the palace. All gates need to be shut.

The Hindus don’t know that the elder knows what happened. They thought they did the boy a favor by protecting him. The Hindus don’t know what happened.

The cowboys gave themselves 10 days. One down.


Paulus was in control from the beginning...paid the authorities.
Which proves my point -- he knew and did NOTHING.

I will not argue the point that Shango did nothing....I do not think Shango wanted to do anything....only read his words and know there was truth in them.  Shango did just exactly what he wanted...tell the story and still be anonymous. Shango is not the only poster that has known important information and failed to share it. That is the status quo in Aruba...if you want to live and continue to have a life of value...you shut your trap and keep quiet.  If anyone thinks Shango was in this to help anyone they are sadly mistaken.  Believe it or not, I am not confused by Shango's lack of  morals to provide information to people that need it.  Shango was in it for Shango only.  That does not negate the fact that both Simian and Shango had heard or knew of things we did not.  Some think I wear rose-colored glasses about Shango...I do not...I only make people think that.   ::MonkeyCool::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on December 04, 2008, 11:01:36 AM
Joran said a couple of things about ALE during the interview that I'm sure has them beginning to turn on each other. Joran said that his Dad paid off 2 policemen and named them even though Greta bleeped the names. He also said that the police would never look into it, and that if anyone ever did it would have to be someone like Greta.

Van der Stratten was quoted as claiming Joran as his Godson (is that one word?) and that he didn't think he could arrest him.

It makes me wonder if those that heard the interview are reacting like they are because they heard truth coming out. I really would like to know how much of what Joran said is truth in the entire interview.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Helen Back on December 04, 2008, 11:02:40 AM
Good morning monkeys, and thanks to all who have brought these great articles today.

I am so happy that Rudy Croes is now throwing Jan van der Stratten under the bus.......let the blame game begin!  However, folks with even a basic knowledge of the case knew VDST was a big problem, godfather, friend and all.

I wonder when the others will be implicated.........you know, the judge buddies, Ben (Voc)King, Bob Witt, Rick Schmid.  The Dirty Judges that go along with the Dirty Police.  Nice try Rudy, but aren't YOU the minister of JUSTICE?  ::MonkeyTongue:: I guess Rudy wants us to believe he didn't know about this in 2005.

VDST certainly didn't force the judges to become involved.  If we truly have a round up of the corrupt, and their involvement in the cover up, WE'LL NEED A BIGGER NET!!!!!

Great news today everyone.

 ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyDance::



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on December 04, 2008, 11:08:14 AM
It's still all about tourism, IMO. It's imperative that Aruba still suffer over this case to drive even the blame. If nobody cares that tourism is down, and if tourism doesn't actually suffer, then no matter what is said or outed, there is no pressure.

Keeping this story front and center is important. Greta has done that with the last interview, and my hat's off to her!

Joran has certainly done his part to help that along as well.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: ldstlou on December 04, 2008, 11:12:51 AM
Joran said a couple of things about ALE during the interview that I'm sure has them beginning to turn on each other. Joran said that his Dad paid off 2 policemen and named them even though Greta bleeped the names. He also said that the police would never look into it, and that if anyone ever did it would have to be someone like Greta.

Van der Stratten was quoted as claiming Joran as his Godson (is that one word?) and that he didn't think he could arrest him.

It makes me wonder if those that heard the interview are reacting like they are because they heard truth coming out. I really would like to know how much of what Joran said is truth in the entire interview.

me too. Still can't piece it all together though in my head. We know whatever happened, Paulus knew that morning, he, joran. kalpoes around the pool..no body no case, that was the morning before Beth arrived..correct?  We know van der straaten knew before you guys touched down...visibility police sent to take the report of chaperone and no cops would show up.

So if it was a kidnapping...was joran taken by surprise by what went down, freaked and told his dad that morning? Did paulus find the money and find out? I mean something bad had to have happened for paulus to know that early and have them gathered around the pool coming up with the cover-up story.

Do you think it was a kidnapping...or do you think what ever happened to Natalee, happened at the hands of joran, and in the sloot house? I still think whatever happened...went down at the sloot house...and the bag with the $10,000 bucks...was the payoff for whoever was hired to take Natalee away. Why all sweaty and dirty the night Beth showed up at their house? What was in the trunk Beth and Jug were so alerted to? I still tend to think it was that night that Natalee was taken away in a boat by someone and paid $10,000 bucks to do it. Why all the visits to the bank by Paulus Monday? he claims he was deposting winnings of joran,,,what winnings? a few hundred bucks? he made several trips to the bank that day!!! that is when the $10,000 was being put together imho! Van der sloot was helping...paulus was getting the payoff money...thats where the $10,000 bucks comes in...in my mind.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: ldstlou on December 04, 2008, 11:14:39 AM
It's still all about tourism, IMO. It's imperative that Aruba still suffer over this case to drive even the blame. If nobody cares that tourism is down, and if tourism doesn't actually suffer, then no matter what is said or outed, there is no pressure.

Keeping this story front and center is important. Greta has done that with the last interview, and my hat's off to her!

Joran has certainly done his part to help that along as well.

Did you notice how Croes is trying to put the blame on the Dutch? He even said the Dutch told him to try and have joran seem like an Aruban, not a Dutch boy. Maybe the Arubans have finally had enough of covering for the Dutch and will stand up for themselves.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: yapperz1 on December 04, 2008, 11:16:04 AM
Hiya Monkeys  If there is going to be a roundup of the corrupt on Aruba, they better fence in the entire island.
CBB, I wonder if goonchild was warning his economic supporters to make sure his payments continue or he will tell all? What he told Greta may just be the tip of the proverbial iceberg.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on December 04, 2008, 11:19:04 AM
Joran said a couple of things about ALE during the interview that I'm sure has them beginning to turn on each other. Joran said that his Dad paid off 2 policemen and named them even though Greta bleeped the names. He also said that the police would never look into it, and that if anyone ever did it would have to be someone like Greta.

Van der Stratten was quoted as claiming Joran as his Godson (is that one word?) and that he didn't think he could arrest him.

It makes me wonder if those that heard the interview are reacting like they are because they heard truth coming out. I really would like to know how much of what Joran said is truth in the entire interview.

me too. Still can't piece it all together though in my head. We know whatever happened, Paulus knew that morning, he, joran. kalpoes around the pool..no body no case, that was the morning before Beth arrived..correct?  We know van der straaten knew before you guys touched down...visibility police sent to take the report of chaperone and no cops would show up.

So if it was a kidnapping...was joran taken by surprise by what went down, freaked and told his dad that morning? Did paulus find the money and find out? I mean something bad had to have happened for paulus to know that early and have them gathered around the pool coming up with the cover-up story.

Do you think it was a kidnapping...or do you think what ever happened to Natalee, happened at the hands of joran, and in the sloot house? I still think whatever happened...went down at the sloot house...and the bag with the $10,000 bucks...was the payoff for whoever was hired to take Natalee away. Why all sweaty and dirty the night Beth showed up at their house? What was in the trunk Beth and Jug were so alerted to? I still tend to think it was that night that Natalee was taken away in a boat by someone and paid $10,000 bucks to do it. Why all the visits to the bank by Paulus Monday? he claims he was deposting winnings of joran,,,what winnings? a few hundred bucks? he made several trips to the bank that day!!! that is when the $10,000 was being put together imho! Van der sloot was helping...paulus was getting the payoff money...thats where the $10,000 bucks comes in...in my mind.


Excellent questions! Good Points! One thing, I do feel sure about. Joran didn't tell the ENTIRE truth to Greta no matter what. In the car tapes, Deepak says, "If they find her, they'll see that sh*t." Even if Natalee was sold, she did not go quietly or unhurt, IMO.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on December 04, 2008, 11:21:45 AM
Hiya Monkeys  If there is going to be a roundup of the corrupt on Aruba, they better fence in the entire island.
CBB, I wonder if goonchild was warning his economic supporters to make sure his payments continue or he will tell all? What he told Greta may just be the tip of the proverbial iceberg.

Very plausible. If that's the case, Paulus was one of the warned!

I honestly think Joran's playing with fire. It wouldn't surprise me at all if he turned up dead.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on December 04, 2008, 11:27:17 AM
Memory fails me. Was it the morning before Beth arrived that the pool conversation occurred?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: klaasend on December 04, 2008, 11:29:42 AM
http://gretawire.foxnews.com/2008/12/04/no-apologies-from-me-on-this-one-in-fact-thank-you-fox-news/

December 4th, 2008 10:27 AM Eastern
No apologies from me on this one! In fact, I say “thank you Fox News for backing us up!”by Greta Van Susteren
I have received some (not a majority) emails and comments from viewers / bloggers who are critical of our persistence in the Natalee Holloway investigation.  You will receive no apology from me on this one.  In fact, I appreciate what MY network has done in supporting us…let’s review some facts and perhaps you will understand.

First, some background: here are the networks that covered Natalee Holloway disappearance in 2005:

ABC News

ABC shows (eg The View, 20/20)

NBC

MS/NBC

Fox News Channel

CNN

CNN International

CNN Headline News

CBS (and their entertainment shows.)

The story reaped big ratings for everyone at first…so all of the above stuck with it during that time.  But then the ratings slipped…and it got very expensive to pursue the story since it is international one and it is also disruptive to lives to have to keep traveling…and, most importantly, it just got hard to do.  Leads dried up.  It meant journalists had to really, really, really work — and be willing to have disappointment when leads went no where.  It also meant giving up weekends etc since we also had to move on to other stories in the news. Plus, we got a great deal of resistance from the Arubans and the Dutch.

So what happened?

All of the above networks except one — FOX NEWS CHANNEL - gave up.  Fox could have given up.  It sure is expensive and the times are lean for all in the media.  We could have spent the huge amount of money on some flashy full page ads about ourselves….we didn’t.   Fox has backed ON THE RECORD and I appreciate it.  This has  been very, very, very expensive.

The topic may not be so hot for viewers now but it remains important.  A missing American matters. If you had a family member missing, I hope we could help in some way.  Yes, there are other missing Americans and I wish I could work as much on those (maybe after we get answers with Natalee Holloway, I will!)

I am proud that Fox News Channel is not so easily swayed by cost, by ratings…but rather sees the importance of doing what we can. Sometimes doing the right thing is the right thing to do.  We have worked behind the scenes on this story since the beginning.  Weekends have been given up by many.  We have done other topics while scrambling to investigate this one.  We feel a loyalty to you the audience (I would think you would feel “had” if we simply dumped it after spending so much time on it) and more importantly, we feel we owe it to those who love Natalee.

I don’t know if we will ever find out what happened to Natalee Holloway on May 30, 2005…but at least we can say at Fox News Channel with great pride “we tried…we really tried.”

So what prompted this blog entry? Read below a GretaWire comment and a quick response from me:


(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub5/gretacomment.jpg)




Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: ldstlou on December 04, 2008, 11:29:45 AM
Joran said a couple of things about ALE during the interview that I'm sure has them beginning to turn on each other. Joran said that his Dad paid off 2 policemen and named them even though Greta bleeped the names. He also said that the police would never look into it, and that if anyone ever did it would have to be someone like Greta.

Van der Stratten was quoted as claiming Joran as his Godson (is that one word?) and that he didn't think he could arrest him.

It makes me wonder if those that heard the interview are reacting like they are because they heard truth coming out. I really would like to know how much of what Joran said is truth in the entire interview.

me too. Still can't piece it all together though in my head. We know whatever happened, Paulus knew that morning, he, joran. kalpoes around the pool..no body no case, that was the morning before Beth arrived..correct?  We know van der straaten knew before you guys touched down...visibility police sent to take the report of chaperone and no cops would show up.

So if it was a kidnapping...was joran taken by surprise by what went down, freaked and told his dad that morning? Did paulus find the money and find out? I mean something bad had to have happened for paulus to know that early and have them gathered around the pool coming up with the cover-up story.

Do you think it was a kidnapping...or do you think what ever happened to Natalee, happened at the hands of joran, and in the sloot house? I still think whatever happened...went down at the sloot house...and the bag with the $10,000 bucks...was the payoff for whoever was hired to take Natalee away. Why all sweaty and dirty the night Beth showed up at their house? What was in the trunk Beth and Jug were so alerted to? I still tend to think it was that night that Natalee was taken away in a boat by someone and paid $10,000 bucks to do it. Why all the visits to the bank by Paulus Monday? he claims he was deposting winnings of joran,,,what winnings? a few hundred bucks? he made several trips to the bank that day!!! that is when the $10,000 was being put together imho! Van der sloot was helping...paulus was getting the payoff money...thats where the $10,000 bucks comes in...in my mind.


Excellent questions! Good Points! One thing, I do feel sure about. Joran didn't tell the ENTIRE truth to Greta no matter what. In the car tapes, Deepak says, "If they find her, they'll see that sh*t." Even if Natalee was sold, she did not go quietly or unhurt, IMO.

I was thinking the same thing CBB. If in fact she was sold...then it is the most terrifying vision imagineable, if you combine the shaking joran said Natalee experienced and the boat with the payoff. The shaking may have been pure fear. It makes me shudder thinking about it. She would have know exactly what was happening to her.

But that bag with the $10,000...seemed real to me...then I kept thinking about all the trips to the bank by paulus that day...they have to tie in. that is why I tend to think there was a boat hired the night Beth and Jug arrived to take Natalee's body far away. Also the reason why the boys were dirty and in sweaty clothes when Beth and Jug saw them.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: ldstlou on December 04, 2008, 11:32:58 AM
Memory fails me. Was it the morning before Beth arrived that the pool conversation occurred?

that is what I was trying to remember also.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: ldstlou on December 04, 2008, 11:34:43 AM
Memory fails me. Was it the morning before Beth arrived that the pool conversation occurred?

that is what I was trying to remember also.

was the pool gathering and all the bank visits Monday morning?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: casa on December 04, 2008, 11:35:03 AM
Hiya Monkeys  If there is going to be a roundup of the corrupt on Aruba, they better fence in the entire island.
CBB, I wonder if goonchild was warning his economic supporters to make sure his payments continue or he will tell all? What he told Greta may just be the tip of the proverbial iceberg.

Very plausible. If that's the case, Paulus was one of the warned!

I honestly think Joran's playing with fire. It wouldn't surprise me at all if he turned up dead.

CBB that is what I am afraid of.  I want the punk alive so maybe some day someone will beat the real truth out of him or we can see him spend the rest or most of his life locked up away from his gambling, partying and girls!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Blonde on December 04, 2008, 11:35:11 AM
They have to arrest these bastards !!!

(http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh25/johan555/22-1.jpg?t=1228380017)

They have to arrest these bastards !!!

Vd straten use the policte team(unit ) what they normaly use for carnival !!!!!!!


Would that be the black team? 

 I'm not holding my breath, but I am keeping my fingers crossed.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: ldstlou on December 04, 2008, 11:48:39 AM
Trying to put it all together, and I am leaning towards Natalee passed at the slot house of a siezure from a date rape drug. joran freaks and gets Paulus up. Paulus is trying to figure out what to do...looks up on the computer the effects of drugs and alcohol. Natalee, expires. Gathers the boys up that morning around the pool to create their story and to figure out what to do with Natalee. Sends joran off to school and calls in van der sloot. Van der sloot is able to keep the chaperone limited to just the visibility team..no police would show up. Van der sloot and van der straaten arrange for someone to take Natalee far away in a boat. paulus makes several trips to the bank to get the money put together. They meet the person with the boat, pay him the $10,000, and Natalee is taken away where she will never be found. Deepak and joran NOT at the casino, but meeting the man with the boat. When Jug and Beth arrive, deepak and joran are getting back, sweaty and dirty.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: ldstlou on December 04, 2008, 11:51:49 AM
Trying to put it all together, and I am leaning towards Natalee passed at the slot house of a siezure from a date rape drug. joran freaks and gets Paulus up. Paulus is trying to figure out what to do...looks up on the computer the effects of drugs and alcohol. Natalee, expires. Gathers the boys up that morning around the pool to create their story and to figure out what to do with Natalee. Sends joran off to school and calls in van der sloot. Van der sloot is able to keep the chaperone limited to just the visibility team..no police would show up. Van der sloot and van der straaten arrange for someone to take Natalee far away in a boat. paulus makes several trips to the bank to get the money put together. They meet the person with the boat, pay him the $10,000, and Natalee is taken away where she will never be found. Deepak and joran NOT at the casino, but meeting the man with the boat. When Jug and Beth arrive, deepak and joran are getting back, sweaty and dirty.

you know what else I am REALLY curious about???!!! Remember the guy who claimed to have the frozen condom? all the talk about not having a condom? What if a used condom was part of what was disposed of and the guy was trying to scare the sloots into blackmail $$ by pretending he had kept it back as evidence?

Betcha so much stuff is finally going to make sense and all the things we were focused on...turns out to be little parts of the puzzle.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: MumInOhio on December 04, 2008, 11:52:57 AM
Bank and pool meeting on Monday...Thought the pool meeting was in the evening, but it isn't documented in the statements....Ah....because Joran wasn't home...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: SS on December 04, 2008, 11:54:34 AM
[size=12pt]Wow!!![/size]


I am 100% behind Lala's statements about Shango.  Some of us spent many hours, days, and months trying to figure out what Shango/Simian were telling us and I think we did a pretty good job of piecing the story together over in that corner of the cage.  We may not fully understand or agree with their motives for cryptic messages, but those Shango/Simian messages were definitely vital in understanding the events and corruption that surrounded Natalee's disappearance.  Those cryptic messages were all we had and as we dug to decipher the messages, we uncovered horrific corruption on crappy island and the players involved.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: SS on December 04, 2008, 11:58:55 AM
Hiya Monkeys  If there is going to be a roundup of the corrupt on Aruba, they better fence in the entire island.
CBB, I wonder if goonchild was warning his economic supporters to make sure his payments continue or he will tell all? What he told Greta may just be the tip of the proverbial iceberg.

Very plausible. If that's the case, Paulus was one of the warned!

I honestly think Joran's playing with fire. It wouldn't surprise me at all if he turned up dead.

CBB that is what I am afraid of.  I want the punk alive so maybe some day someone will beat the real truth out of him or we can see him spend the rest or most of his life locked up away from his gambling, partying and girls!




Casa - I agree.  I want Urine alive and I want to hear him sing like a canary to bring that entire group down with him.

Divide and conquer!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: ldstlou on December 04, 2008, 12:00:04 PM
[size=12pt]Wow!!![/size]


I am 100% behind Lala's statements about Shango.  Some of us spent many hours, days, and months trying to figure out what Shango/Simian were telling us and I think we did a pretty good job of piecing the story together over in that corner of the cage.  We may not fully understand or agree with their motives for cryptic messages, but those Shango/Simian messages were definitely vital in understanding the events and corruption that surrounded Natalee's disappearance.  Those cryptic messages were all we had and as we dug to decipher the messages, we uncovered horrific corruption on crappy island and the players involved.



Yes you did!! I remember having NIGHTMARES!!! literally...when you guys were uncovering it all. It was so horrific, it was difficult to believe. But here it all is...in black and white!! I am so glad you guys did decipher it.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Rob on December 04, 2008, 12:00:14 PM
Guy, I told Klaas last night, and now I'll tell you all too. The FBI closed Max DeVries' case yesterday. They said there was nothing they could do. They went as far as they could.

If you could, keep Yvonne and Dominique close to your hearts this holiday season and let's never forget they became VICTIMS of Aruba too.

Thank You All.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: ldstlou on December 04, 2008, 12:01:46 PM
Bank and pool meeting on Monday...Thought the pool meeting was in the evening, but it isn't documented in the statements....Ah....because Joran wasn't home...

I thought so. Bank and a payoff!!! Right from the get-go before Beth even touched down. And we kept asking why the police would not come take a report from the chaperone!!! Now we know!! Van der sloot was already on it!!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: SS on December 04, 2008, 12:02:13 PM
I wonder if Kermit's posting of the cage pictures had anything to do with forcing Rudy's hand.  I have also always believed that Urine gave Daury's name for a reason and he named the two ALE officers for a reason.  Urine was dropping the dime on them.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: blah on December 04, 2008, 12:04:58 PM

1.  Silvetti's businesses were in trouble.  He wanted to start new businesses with oil and an oil pipeline from Aruba to Chavez in Colombia.  He needed money.

2.  He illegally sold off his shares of stock and that is why the SEC is after him.

3.  Before he started his new oil business, he needed to have a geological scan of the ocean floor.  Doing those scans costs lots of money.

4.  He agreed to volunteer his ship, crew, and equipment to search for a missing American woman in the same area.  He scans the ocean floor looking for Natalee, but really he's doing oil work.

5.  Most of his expenses for the Persistence search were written off on his corporate tax returns because it was charity work and a donation that he was doing.  By looking for Natalee, he was able to map the ocean for free.

6.  Natalee was found in the end of December.  Oh no, what can he do?  He can't keep mapping the ocean floor for free because he just found the missing American woman.  So, the trap contents were turned over to ALE, nothing was ever in that trap. and he continued to search for Natalee and map for oil for another 6 to 8 weeks -at very little expense to himself.


SS ... your overview of the probable scenario is concise but ... says it all.

Thanks

Janet

I find this VERY hard to believe and very unlikely to be honest.  Then again, this whole case has been so crazy that I guess anything is possible. Who knows anymore.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Helen Back on December 04, 2008, 12:05:04 PM
Guy, I told Klaas last night, and now I'll tell you all too. The FBI closed Max DeVries' case yesterday. They said there was nothing they could do. They went as far as they could.

If you could, keep Yvonne and Dominique close to your hearts this holiday season and let's never forget they became VICTIMS of Aruba too.

Thank You All.

Oh Rob.  I'm so sorry and will continue to keep the family in my prayers.  Perhaps if the corruption in Aruba is exposed in a big way, we will still learn what happened to Max.  That is my hope.
 :sad:



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Tamikosmom on December 04, 2008, 12:09:40 PM
Aruban Justice Minister Rudy Croes confirms Police Chief Jan van der Straten has intentionally messed up the investigation in the first days to protect his friend Paul van der Sloot.

- arrested Joran and Kalpoe bros. only after 10 days
- Rudy Croes heard Jan van der Straten say: "I can't do this to my friend".
- a lot of phone communication between Jan and Paul
- a 2nd grade investigation team was used. "the team the used for carnaval" - meaning petty crimes.
- Rudy Croes wants a fresh investigation
- Paul and Jan helped each other 'as Dutch friends'.

further:

- he criticizes the Dutch gov. for not giving moral support to Aruba while Aruba's name gets besmudged internationally.
- Dutch gov. wanted Aruba to hide as much as possible that Joran was Dutch.
- Joran had to appear as an Aruba - a Dutch minister personally requested this. (Rudy Croes won't give the minster's name). > reminds me of the Most Wanted program, the actor playing Joran was dark skinned.

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/2714185/___Politie_hielp_Paul_van_der_Sloot___.html

Mistakes were not made in the first days of the investigation.  The investigation was not botched.  The Prime Minster's words do not go far enought.  The disappearance into the disappearance of an American citizen on Aruban soil was a COVERUP!!!

Janet

++++++++


Posted 8/22/2005 11:36 AM     Updated 8/22/2005 11:59 AM
Aruba leader acknowledges early mistakes in probe


ORANJESTAD, Aruba (AP) — Aruba's prime minister believes that authorities made mistakes at the start of the investigation of the Natalee Holloway case, a government spokesman said Monday.

Beth Holloway Twitty, who has often criticized authorities on the Dutch Caribbean island since her daughter disappeared on May 30, met in private with Prime Minister Nelson Oduber over the weekend.

"I think that he's in absolute agreement that the initial investigation has been so badly botched," Holloway Twitty said on NBC's "Today" show.

She said the prime minister also told her that Aruba needs to review the first stages of the investigation to find out "who let this go wrong."

Oduber told reporters over the weekend that during the meeting he assured the Alabama woman that investigators would not stop looking for answers about the fate of her 18-year-old daughter.

Government spokesman Ruben Trapenberg said Monday the prime minister had expressed concerns about the initial investigation, though he used more cautious language.

"The prime minister agreed that in the beginning the case could have been better handled," Trapenberg said. "He didn't say it had been 'botched.'"

Holloway, of Mountain Brook, Ala., was last seen leaving a bar with three young local men on the final night of a high school graduation trip to Aruba. Police and hundreds of volunteers have searched the island, but found no trace of her.

An 18-year-old Dutch resident of Aruba, Joran van der Sloot, has been detained as a suspect but no charges have been filed. At a hearing in September, a court is expected to decide if there is enough evidence to continue holding him.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2005-08-22-aruba_x.htm


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: SS on December 04, 2008, 12:10:18 PM
Hey Julia, what do you have to say this time???


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Rob on December 04, 2008, 12:11:46 PM
Guy, I told Klaas last night, and now I'll tell you all too. The FBI closed Max DeVries' case yesterday. They said there was nothing they could do. They went as far as they could.

If you could, keep Yvonne and Dominique close to your hearts this holiday season and let's never forget they became VICTIMS of Aruba too.

Thank You All.

Oh Rob.  I'm so sorry and will continue to keep the family in my prayers.  Perhaps if the corruption in Aruba is exposed in a big way, we will still learn what happened to Max.  That is my hope.
 :sad:



Thanks Helen.. it really means a lot to me ... I would like to think I did everything I could outside of following the Staceys themselves. The sad part is they will do what they did to Max to someone else sooner or later. I spent as much time as I could tryin' to help her and I think we know more than we did, and in a small way that helps, but it didn't get the desired results.

Yvonne was never too hopeful that the FBI would resolve it, and she keep her emotions in check. It's just painful for everyone to know that there will probably never be any sort of resolution here.

Thanks you again for you concern. It does go a long way with me.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: MumInOhio on December 04, 2008, 12:12:37 PM
Guy, I told Klaas last night, and now I'll tell you all too. The FBI closed Max DeVries' case yesterday. They said there was nothing they could do. They went as far as they could.

If you could, keep Yvonne and Dominique close to your hearts this holiday season and let's never forget they became VICTIMS of Aruba too.

Thank You All.


Sorry to hear this Rob. Thanks for letting us know.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: SS on December 04, 2008, 12:14:00 PM

1.  Silvetti's businesses were in trouble.  He wanted to start new businesses with oil and an oil pipeline from Aruba to Chavez in Colombia.  He needed money.

2.  He illegally sold off his shares of stock and that is why the SEC is after him.

3.  Before he started his new oil business, he needed to have a geological scan of the ocean floor.  Doing those scans costs lots of money.

4.  He agreed to volunteer his ship, crew, and equipment to search for a missing American woman in the same area.  He scans the ocean floor looking for Natalee, but really he's doing oil work.

5.  Most of his expenses for the Persistence search were written off on his corporate tax returns because it was charity work and a donation that he was doing.  By looking for Natalee, he was able to map the ocean for free.

6.  Natalee was found in the end of December.  Oh no, what can he do?  He can't keep mapping the ocean floor for free because he just found the missing American woman.  So, the trap contents were turned over to ALE, nothing was ever in that trap. and he continued to search for Natalee and map for oil for another 6 to 8 weeks -at very little expense to himself.


SS ... your overview of the probable scenario is concise but ... says it all.

Thanks

Janet

I find this VERY hard to believe and very unlikely to be honest.  Then again, this whole case has been so crazy that I guess anything is possible. Who knows anymore.




Blah - this was taken out of context from the rest of the post.  I was explaining to several monkeys what Kermit was trying to tell us about the Persistence search.  It was an explanation.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: yapperz1 on December 04, 2008, 12:14:04 PM
I do not believe Natalee's body was found in that cage. I honestly think if it were her remains the family would have been screaming it at the top of their lungs.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Blonde on December 04, 2008, 12:15:34 PM
Trying to put it all together, and I am leaning towards Natalee passed at the slot house of a siezure from a date rape drug. joran freaks and gets Paulus up. Paulus is trying to figure out what to do...looks up on the computer the effects of drugs and alcohol. Natalee, expires. Gathers the boys up that morning around the pool to create their story and to figure out what to do with Natalee. Sends joran off to school and calls in van der sloot. Van der sloot is able to keep the chaperone limited to just the visibility team..no police would show up. Van der sloot and van der straaten arrange for someone to take Natalee far away in a boat. paulus makes several trips to the bank to get the money put together. They meet the person with the boat, pay him the $10,000, and Natalee is taken away where she will never be found. Deepak and joran NOT at the casino, but meeting the man with the boat. When Jug and Beth arrive, deepak and joran are getting back, sweaty and dirty.

you know what else I am REALLY curious about???!!! Remember the guy who claimed to have the frozen condom? all the talk about not having a condom? What if a used condom was part of what was disposed of and the guy was trying to scare the sloots into blackmail $$ by pretending he had kept it back as evidence?

Betcha so much stuff is finally going to make sense and all the things we were focused on...turns out to be little parts of the puzzle.


WITNESSES –


COLUMBIAN ON THE BEACH witness who claims to have seen a rape, murder and disposal of a young woman at the California sand dunes. Claims to have 2 pieces of evidence from the crime. Later discredited. See above under arrestees.



FISHERMEN - Saw a white vehicle but no activity or persons on 5-30-05 at the area around the fishermen’s huts at Hadicurari where Joran claims he took and left Natalee.


JOGGER – Jossy Mansur said that his information is that the unknown jogger near the “Marriott Hotel”/drained pond witness telephoned police with his 5-30 observations 2 or 3 days after Natalee disappeared (6-1 or 6-2), and he phoned from a public pay telephone.


JUNIOR - the landfill witness who claims to have seen a blonde woman being disposed of,and a white truck. the landfill witness said he witnessed the 3 men burying the body on 6-1. described to him that the body was that of a woman with long blonde hair. The landfill witness claimed he saw her breasts. He also noticed a jeep-like vehicle sitting close to the white truck. The landfill witness saw the 3 persons bury the blonde woman’s body in a specific spot, after which the 3 men found a blue plastic “kiddie’s pool” in the dump and placed the “kiddie’s pool” over where they buried the blonde woman. The witness also obtained the license plate nu-ber of the truck they were driving and gave it to the police, but when the police checked on the license plate number they reported that the car that license plate number was registered to “was not near the landfill.” Jossy Mansur said the license plate of the pickup truck that JUNIOR saw at the landfill has been traced to a Chevrolet “Malibu.”


RAMOS, Carlos Alberto Penata (DOB 2-25-79, Cartagena, Columbia) - the gardner witness who claims to have seen 3 boys in Deepak’s car on the dirt road by the pond at the Racquet Club on 5-30-05 at approximately 2:30 AM. Identifies Joran in front seat, Deepak in passenger seat, and unidentified male in rear seat. Claims passenger has hand up besides face, and the driver (identified as Joran) is sitting far back in the seat. His employer was Eric Mansur.
STATEMENTS to Police 7-26-05 through 8-16-05: http://www.scaredmonkeys.net/viewtopic.php?t=271


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Tamikosmom on December 04, 2008, 12:16:02 PM
(http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh25/johan555/22-1.jpg?t=1228380017)

Now what?

 ::MonkeyNoNo::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Anna on December 04, 2008, 12:17:31 PM
Oh, puh-leeze!  Who was NOT saying it was van der Straten right from the start?  I can only think of one Aruban poster who went bananas every time she was asked anything about him.

Even Geraldo was on to vd Straten.   ::MonkeyRoll::

Paulus only actually went to the bank once on Monday.  The other time he said he did was to cover his absence from work, not that anybody was watcing him.

By the time of the pool meeting after school, it was already a done deal and no body, no case an assured thing.  MO


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: SS on December 04, 2008, 12:18:06 PM
Guy, I told Klaas last night, and now I'll tell you all too. The FBI closed Max DeVries' case yesterday. They said there was nothing they could do. They went as far as they could.

If you could, keep Yvonne and Dominique close to your hearts this holiday season and let's never forget they became VICTIMS of Aruba too.

Thank You All.




I am so sorry, Rob.  My heart aches for Yvonne and Dominique.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Anna on December 04, 2008, 12:20:33 PM
I do not believe Natalee's body was found in that cage. I honestly think if it were her remains the family would have been screaming it at the top of their lungs.

Exactly and whomever allegedly bought photos would have used them in some sort of explosive documentary to prove same.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: ldstlou on December 04, 2008, 12:20:43 PM
Guy, I told Klaas last night, and now I'll tell you all too. The FBI closed Max DeVries' case yesterday. They said there was nothing they could do. They went as far as they could.

If you could, keep Yvonne and Dominique close to your hearts this holiday season and let's never forget they became VICTIMS of Aruba too.

Thank You All.

Done Rob. We have our advent wreath out and saying our nightly prayers. We will add Max and his family!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: adoronron on December 04, 2008, 12:20:48 PM
Oh, puh-leeze!  Who was NOT saying it was van der Straten right from the start?  I can only think of one Aruban poster who went bananas every time she was asked anything about him.

Even Geraldo was on to vd Straten.   ::MonkeyRoll::

Paulus only actually went to the bank once on Monday.  The other time he said he did was to cover his absence from work, not that anybody was watcing him.

By the time of the pool meeting after school, it was already a done deal and no body, no case an assured thing.  MO


Ditto.........hi Anna.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: ldstlou on December 04, 2008, 12:23:26 PM
I thought he went to the bank more than once, said the lines were too long the first time? Do we have that anywhere in the archives.
One more favor...I can't remember how we determined the pool meeting was Monday after school? Was it from statements? Can anyone find that stuff? I remember we determined Monday, just can't remeber how?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Anna on December 04, 2008, 12:27:04 PM
Unfortunately, there were no laws in place in Aruba at the time to combat corruption.  I did post long ago about their attending a conference with emerging African nations, many of whom were well in advance of Aruba in this regard.

Aruba very conveniently did not adapt the Dutch law en mass but are dragging their feet passing a little legislation at a time so I seriously doubt there was or even now is any law actually making the taking of bribes illegal in Aruba.

Perhaps there is something about dereliction of duty?  I surely hope so because otherwise, I don't think they will do anything.  And I do find it odd Rudy Croes is saying this because he and Paulus are also major buddies.


Croes and Oduber are not exactly a couple of Mr. Cleans themselves.  But it is good to see them turning on each other, just hope it actually goes somewhere for a big change.

I think Uncle Jan may not be of the correct political party as recall Jossy often defended him as well?  That seems to matter more in Aruba than what you do, which party you belong to.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Tamikosmom on December 04, 2008, 12:27:43 PM
What about Dennis Jacobs?

Janet


Police officer thwarted Holloway investigation
RNW NEWS
04-12-2008


Dutch police commissioner Jan van der Straten actively frustrated investigations on the island of Aruba into the disappearance of US teenager Natalee Holloway.

Aruba's Justice Minister Rudy Croes confirmed on Thursday that Van der Straten delayed the start of investigations in order to protect his friend, Paulus van der Sloot, the father of Joran who is the main suspect in the case. Paulus was working for the Justice Ministry at the time.

Minister Croes made his public statement about the commissioner's dallying following critical remarks by Van der Straten about Aruba's police. Shortly after Natalee's disappearance in 2005, the Dutch police commissioner was overheard saying "I cannot do this to my friend Paul".

The Justice Minister says there were remarkably frequent phone conversations between Jan van der Straten and Paul van der Sloot in the first days after the American teenager went missing.

Carnival policemen
In more detailed criticism, Minister Croes accuses Commissioner Van der Straten of putting a "second rate police team" on the Holloway case. The team consisted of part-time policemen who are hired in to help the regular force during events like carnivals.

The Dutch government is also blamed by Minister Croes for giving insufficient moral support to the Aruban authorities:

"They stand by while Aruba's name is being dragged through the mud. We were asked in 2005 to hide the fact that Joran is a Dutchman. A Dutch minister - I won't say who - personally asked us to present Joran as an Aruban."

http://www.radionetherlands.nl/currentaffairs/region/netherlands/081204-Holloway-Croes


'Rita Cosby Live & Direct' for Dec. 5th
updated 6:18 a.m. PT, Tues., Dec. 6, 2005


TWITTY: ... Remember, within the first 24 hours, we knew who the suspects were. We knew the persons that Natalee were taken from Carlos and Charlie‘s. We knew the license plate of the gray Honda they placed her in. We knew the condition that Natalee was in. We knew the behavior or the conduct in which they engaged in with Natalee.

And then not only that, Jane, within 72 hours, we knew that their first story was totally fabricated, that within the first 72 hours, I faced a room of 12 -- at least 12 detectives, Aruban and Dutch detectives, and a lead detective, Dennis Jacobs (ph), and they knew after we reviewed video footage from the Holiday Inn casino lobby that my daughter had never been brought back to the Holiday Inn. They knew that those suspects were fabricating a story from day one.

<snipped>

TWITTY: Well, Jane, something that the family knew—and we have to keep reminding everyone—after 72 hours -- 72 hours—we knew definitively that these suspects were not telling the truth. We knew that my daughter had never been brought back to the Holiday Inn. Of course we were becoming frustrated. Who wouldn‘t, at this point? You know, we—and what was so unbelievable about this, is they knew this information and still chose to pursue the two security guards on June the 5th.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10348437/




Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: SS on December 04, 2008, 12:27:58 PM
I do not believe Natalee's body was found in that cage. I honestly think if it were her remains the family would have been screaming it at the top of their lungs.

Exactly and whomever allegedly bought photos would have used them in some sort of explosive documentary to prove same.



And I'm still wondering if the remains were Carpe's Jalitza Wever.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: ldstlou on December 04, 2008, 12:28:57 PM
Trying to put it all together, and I am leaning towards Natalee passed at the slot house of a siezure from a date rape drug. joran freaks and gets Paulus up. Paulus is trying to figure out what to do...looks up on the computer the effects of drugs and alcohol. Natalee, expires. Gathers the boys up that morning around the pool to create their story and to figure out what to do with Natalee. Sends joran off to school and calls in van der sloot. Van der sloot is able to keep the chaperone limited to just the visibility team..no police would show up. Van der sloot and van der straaten arrange for someone to take Natalee far away in a boat. paulus makes several trips to the bank to get the money put together. They meet the person with the boat, pay him the $10,000, and Natalee is taken away where she will never be found. Deepak and joran NOT at the casino, but meeting the man with the boat. When Jug and Beth arrive, deepak and joran are getting back, sweaty and dirty.

you know what else I am REALLY curious about???!!! Remember the guy who claimed to have the frozen condom? all the talk about not having a condom? What if a used condom was part of what was disposed of and the guy was trying to scare the sloots into blackmail $$ by pretending he had kept it back as evidence?

Betcha so much stuff is finally going to make sense and all the things we were focused on...turns out to be little parts of the puzzle.


WITNESSES –


COLUMBIAN ON THE BEACH witness who claims to have seen a rape, murder and disposal of a young woman at the California sand dunes. Claims to have 2 pieces of evidence from the crime. Later discredited. See above under arrestees.



FISHERMEN - Saw a white vehicle but no activity or persons on 5-30-05 at the area around the fishermen’s huts at Hadicurari where Joran claims he took and left Natalee.


JOGGER – Jossy Mansur said that his information is that the unknown jogger near the “Marriott Hotel”/drained pond witness telephoned police with his 5-30 observations 2 or 3 days after Natalee disappeared (6-1 or 6-2), and he phoned from a public pay telephone.


JUNIOR - the landfill witness who claims to have seen a blonde woman being disposed of,and a white truck. the landfill witness said he witnessed the 3 men burying the body on 6-1. described to him that the body was that of a woman with long blonde hair. The landfill witness claimed he saw her breasts. He also noticed a jeep-like vehicle sitting close to the white truck. The landfill witness saw the 3 persons bury the blonde woman’s body in a specific spot, after which the 3 men found a blue plastic “kiddie’s pool” in the dump and placed the “kiddie’s pool” over where they buried the blonde woman. The witness also obtained the license plate nu-ber of the truck they were driving and gave it to the police, but when the police checked on the license plate number they reported that the car that license plate number was registered to “was not near the landfill.” Jossy Mansur said the license plate of the pickup truck that JUNIOR saw at the landfill has been traced to a Chevrolet “Malibu.”


RAMOS, Carlos Alberto Penata (DOB 2-25-79, Cartagena, Columbia) - the gardner witness who claims to have seen 3 boys in Deepak’s car on the dirt road by the pond at the Racquet Club on 5-30-05 at approximately 2:30 AM. Identifies Joran in front seat, Deepak in passenger seat, and unidentified male in rear seat. Claims passenger has hand up besides face, and the driver (identified as Joran) is sitting far back in the seat. His employer was Eric Mansur.
STATEMENTS to Police 7-26-05 through 8-16-05: http://www.scaredmonkeys.net/viewtopic.php?t=271

Thanks Sweetie!!! So much of the info is so discombobulated in my blonde head after all this time!! lol

Hey Blonde...do you remember how we determined the meeting around the pool was Monday?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Anna on December 04, 2008, 12:30:46 PM
Oh, puh-leeze!  Who was NOT saying it was van der Straten right from the start?  I can only think of one Aruban poster who went bananas every time she was asked anything about him.

Even Geraldo was on to vd Straten.   ::MonkeyRoll::

Paulus only actually went to the bank once on Monday.  The other time he said he did was to cover his absence from work, not that anybody was watcing him.

By the time of the pool meeting after school, it was already a done deal and no body, no case an assured thing.  MO


Ditto.........hi Anna.


Great to see you, Adoronron!  And my pal Blah! 

Even in The Netherlands, there are problems with corruption in the form of light sentencing, etc. so this is not unique to Aruba in total.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: johan555 on December 04, 2008, 12:31:32 PM
Hey Julia, what do you have to say this time???

TodaY ? ::MonkeyHaHa::

(http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh25/johan555/Juliacopy.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: ldstlou on December 04, 2008, 12:32:29 PM
Hey Julia, what do you have to say this time???

TodaY ? ::MonkeyHaHa::

(http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh25/johan555/Juliacopy.jpg)

rofl


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Dayhiker on December 04, 2008, 12:33:55 PM
It's still all about tourism, IMO. It's imperative that Aruba still suffer over this case to drive even the blame. If nobody cares that tourism is down, and if tourism doesn't actually suffer, then no matter what is said or outed, there is no pressure.

Keeping this story front and center is important. Greta has done that with the last interview, and my hat's off to her!

Joran has certainly done his part to help that along as well.

Did you notice how Croes is trying to put the blame on the Dutch? He even said the Dutch told him to try and have joran seem like an Aruban, not a Dutch boy. Maybe the Arubans have finally had enough of covering for the Dutch and will stand up for themselves.



Heck, they even cast an Aruba as Joran in that Dutch Ospooring documentary. Those sumbitches are in denial and it goes all the way to Holland, just like Rudy says. You can't tell me they couldn't find a white Dutch boy to cast as Joran.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: MumInOhio on December 04, 2008, 12:36:28 PM
I thought he went to the bank more than once, said the lines were too long the first time? Do we have that anywhere in the archives.
One more favor...I can't remember how we determined the pool meeting was Monday after school? Was it from statements? Can anyone find that stuff? I remember we determined Monday, just can't remeber how?


Jumping in from musical chairs with my computers...UGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!

You are right...lines too long, I think?

Didn't the meeting come from Karen Jansen or some-one like that.

Sorry I can't check my notes.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Dayhiker on December 04, 2008, 12:37:23 PM
Guy, I told Klaas last night, and now I'll tell you all too. The FBI closed Max DeVries' case yesterday. They said there was nothing they could do. They went as far as they could.

If you could, keep Yvonne and Dominique close to your hearts this holiday season and let's never forget they became VICTIMS of Aruba too.

Thank You All.


Rob, thanks for all the work you did on Max's case. Let's hope his family benefits from the explosion that's about to hit Aruba, Brother.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Keepthefaith on December 04, 2008, 12:39:36 PM
I wonder if Kermit's posting of the cage pictures had anything to do with forcing Rudy's hand.  I have also always believed that Urine gave Daury's name for a reason and he named the two ALE officers for a reason.  Urine was dropping the dime on them.

As Hotshot tells me.I'll have to wait and see!Just got done reading throught the last few pages.Interesting to say the least.This has been a search for the TRUTH.Typically how does one get to the TRUTH??By observing,questioning,Logic,Deductive reasoning,and so on.Think you get the point.Forum=Open discussion!!
When i came across Scared Monkeys i was very excited that a place,and or people were continuing to keep HOPE alive in Natalee's case,as well as many others.I will be the first to admit that,i for one,do not have any answers!That is why i question.When one presents ideas i tend to take one at face value until i've been proven otherwise.If one continues to ask questions i find that Monkey like.Inquisitive creatures we are!My point being is that no one should be put down for not being in "The Know",and or asking questions when presented with theories or ideas.End point.The Moderators have done a fabulous job with all the stuff that goes on in the Monkey cage and for that i applaud them!!! ::cartwheel::

Thank You for giving so many a voice........KEEPTHEFAITH


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Dayhiker on December 04, 2008, 12:39:58 PM
Bank and pool meeting on Monday...Thought the pool meeting was in the evening, but it isn't documented in the statements....Ah....because Joran wasn't home...

I thought so. Bank and a payoff!!! Right from the get-go before Beth even touched down. And we kept asking why the police would not come take a report from the chaperone!!! Now we know!! Van der sloot was already on it!!!


Let's also not forget Paulus was only a brisk few footseps away from his pal Charles Croes' Digicel offices when he went to the bank. Twice.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Dayhiker on December 04, 2008, 12:43:29 PM
]

Now what?

 ::MonkeyNoNo::
[/quote]



Now maybe they'll start to come unraveled and all the dirty slime that covered up the case will be exposed, including the scum from ATA and AHATA that were running the investigation with Antonio Carlo sitting on their board no doubt!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: ldstlou on December 04, 2008, 12:43:39 PM
It's still all about tourism, IMO. It's imperative that Aruba still suffer over this case to drive even the blame. If nobody cares that tourism is down, and if tourism doesn't actually suffer, then no matter what is said or outed, there is no pressure.

Keeping this story front and center is important. Greta has done that with the last interview, and my hat's off to her!

Joran has certainly done his part to help that along as well.

Did you notice how Croes is trying to put the blame on the Dutch? He even said the Dutch told him to try and have joran seem like an Aruban, not a Dutch boy. Maybe the Arubans have finally had enough of covering for the Dutch and will stand up for themselves.



Heck, they even cast an Aruba as Joran in that Dutch Ospooring documentary. Those sumbitches are in denial and it goes all the way to Holland, just like Rudy says. You can't tell me they couldn't find a white Dutch boy to cast as Joran.

I forgot abot that!! Hope the Arubans finally stand up for themselves!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: ldstlou on December 04, 2008, 12:44:24 PM
Bank and pool meeting on Monday...Thought the pool meeting was in the evening, but it isn't documented in the statements....Ah....because Joran wasn't home...

I thought so. Bank and a payoff!!! Right from the get-go before Beth even touched down. And we kept asking why the police would not come take a report from the chaperone!!! Now we know!! Van der sloot was already on it!!!


Let's also not forget Paulus was only a brisk few footseps away from his pal Charles Croes' Digicel offices when he went to the bank. Twice.

hmmmmm


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: SS on December 04, 2008, 12:45:23 PM
Bank and pool meeting on Monday...Thought the pool meeting was in the evening, but it isn't documented in the statements....Ah....because Joran wasn't home...

I thought so. Bank and a payoff!!! Right from the get-go before Beth even touched down. And we kept asking why the police would not come take a report from the chaperone!!! Now we know!! Van der sloot was already on it!!!


Let's also not forget Paulus was only a brisk few footseps away from his pal Charles Croes' Digicel offices when he went to the bank. Twice.




Let's not forget the bank teller who could confirm the transactions.  She suddenly died at the age of 45.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: MumInOhio on December 04, 2008, 12:45:24 PM
Bank and pool meeting on Monday...Thought the pool meeting was in the evening, but it isn't documented in the statements....Ah....because Joran wasn't home...

I thought so. Bank and a payoff!!! Right from the get-go before Beth even touched down. And we kept asking why the police would not come take a report from the chaperone!!! Now we know!! Van der sloot was already on it!!!


Let's also not forget Paulus was only a brisk few footseps away from his pal Charles Croes' Digicel offices when he went to the bank. Twice.

Dayhiker...LOL...I have been trying to track this down for a couple of hours now....

CC's Fast Phones at the airport and a new mall, may have closed now?

Digicel?

SETAR owns Telearuba and is owned by a company with the government as shareholders...

So who is next door to the bank? Who owns SETAR...site down as is Telearuba...for me anyways!...Any more info would be appreciated?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: ldstlou on December 04, 2008, 12:46:19 PM
I thought he went to the bank more than once, said the lines were too long the first time? Do we have that anywhere in the archives.
One more favor...I can't remember how we determined the pool meeting was Monday after school? Was it from statements? Can anyone find that stuff? I remember we determined Monday, just can't remeber how?


Jumping in from musical chairs with my computers...UGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!

You are right...lines too long, I think?

Didn't the meeting come from Karen Jansen or some-one like that.

Sorry I can't check my notes.

could some one check for me? Was it the statements that came out later?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Anna on December 04, 2008, 12:47:13 PM
Paulus only SAID he went to the bank twice on Monday, etc.  No record of multiple transactions I am pretty sure.  Long lines in Aruba, lol.

Frankly, I just don't believe everything he says.  At some point in time I believe he was in contact with vd Straten or someone designated for dealing with things. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: ldstlou on December 04, 2008, 12:47:28 PM
Bank and pool meeting on Monday...Thought the pool meeting was in the evening, but it isn't documented in the statements....Ah....because Joran wasn't home...

I thought so. Bank and a payoff!!! Right from the get-go before Beth even touched down. And we kept asking why the police would not come take a report from the chaperone!!! Now we know!! Van der sloot was already on it!!!


Let's also not forget Paulus was only a brisk few footseps away from his pal Charles Croes' Digicel offices when he went to the bank. Twice.




Let's not forget the bank teller who could confirm the transactions.  She suddenly died at the age of 45.

its all coming together is it!!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: MumInOhio on December 04, 2008, 12:50:12 PM
Bank and pool meeting on Monday...Thought the pool meeting was in the evening, but it isn't documented in the statements....Ah....because Joran wasn't home...

I thought so. Bank and a payoff!!! Right from the get-go before Beth even touched down. And we kept asking why the police would not come take a report from the chaperone!!! Now we know!! Van der sloot was already on it!!!


Let's also not forget Paulus was only a brisk few footseps away from his pal Charles Croes' Digicel offices when he went to the bank. Twice.




Let's not forget the bank teller who could confirm the transactions.  She suddenly died at the age of 45.


Anyone have anything that Ruth was in fact a Bank teller?

I recall Paulus said he spoke to her at the bank...could have been another customer...TIA


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Tamikosmom on December 04, 2008, 12:50:27 PM
I cannot figure out what Rudy Croes is implying with he claims that the Netherlands did not provide "moral" support to Aruba.  The administration in the Netherlands never took a stand in the name of justice for Natalee Holloway.  Aruba has been given a free rein to coverup and protect their own for over 3 1/2 years.
Janet

++++++

‘Van der Sloot father hindered Natalee probe’
Thursday 04 December 2008


Dutchman Jan van der Straten, who was police commissioner on the Caribbean island of Aruba when US teenager Natalee Holloway disappeared, seriously hindered the investigation in the first few days, Aruban justice minister Rudy Croes is quoted as saying by news agency ANP.

ANP says Croes claims Van der Straten was slow to take action in order to help his friend Paul van der Sloot protect his son Joran, who was suspected of being involved in the disappearance. Such rumours have circulated on the island for some time, ANP says.

According to ANP, Croes made the statement following criticism of the Aruban police force made by Van der Straten earlier this week.

Questioning

Croes said that Joran and two other suspects were only taken in for questioning 10 days after Holloway went missing ‘when the first days are crucial in a disappearance’. And he claims he heard Van der Straten say ‘I cannot do that to my friend Paul’.

Croes also claims there were a lot of telephone conversations between Van der Sloot senior and Van der Straten and that a ‘second class’ police team was put on the investigation. ‘It was the team used during the carnival celebrations,’ ANP reports him as saying.

In addition, Croes accuses the Dutch government of failing to provide any moral support to Aruba. He says the Aruban authorities were pressurised to present Joran van der Sloot as an Aruban, not a Dutch national.

ANP does not say when and where Croes made the comments, or if it had picked them up from another source.

http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2008/12/van_der_sloots_father_hindered.php


Beth Twitty
On the Record w/ Greta
November 14, 2005


VAN SUSTEREN: : We're saying that even the AG is controlled by The Hague, so they're keeping Karen Janssen on ...

TWITTY: Well Greta, somebody is lobbying for Joran in the Hague in order to protect him ..... it has to be.


Beth Twitty
'Rita Cosby Live & Direct'
December 1, 2005


BETH HOLLOWAY TWITTY, NATALEE HOLLOWAY'S MOTHER: Well, of course, it's very frustrating. You know, the entire investigation, that's all we've had is frustration coming out of the officials from Aruba.  You know, evidence—you know when evidence is gathered and lost or evidence is never gathered when it's supposed to be, just (INAUDIBLE) the primary residence of Paulus Van Der Sloot was never searched —I mean, you know, it just can't help but raise all the questions of—and leave us frustrated.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10295536/



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Keepthefaith on December 04, 2008, 12:52:36 PM
I cannot figure out what Rudy Croes is implying with he claims that the Netherlands did not provide "moral" support to Aruba.  The administration in the Netherlands never took a stand in the name of justice for Natalee Holloway.  Aruba has been given a free rein to coverup and protect their own for over 3 1/2 years.
Janet

++++++

‘Van der Sloot father hindered Natalee probe’
Thursday 04 December 2008


Dutchman Jan van der Straten, who was police commissioner on the Caribbean island of Aruba when US teenager Natalee Holloway disappeared, seriously hindered the investigation in the first few days, Aruban justice minister Rudy Croes is quoted as saying by news agency ANP.

ANP says Croes claims Van der Straten was slow to take action in order to help his friend Paul van der Sloot protect his son Joran, who was suspected of being involved in the disappearance. Such rumours have circulated on the island for some time, ANP says.

According to ANP, Croes made the statement following criticism of the Aruban police force made by Van der Straten earlier this week.

Questioning

Croes said that Joran and two other suspects were only taken in for questioning 10 days after Holloway went missing ‘when the first days are crucial in a disappearance’. And he claims he heard Van der Straten say ‘I cannot do that to my friend Paul’.

Croes also claims there were a lot of telephone conversations between Van der Sloot senior and Van der Straten and that a ‘second class’ police team was put on the investigation. ‘It was the team used during the carnival celebrations,’ ANP reports him as saying.

In addition, Croes accuses the Dutch government of failing to provide any moral support to Aruba. He says the Aruban authorities were pressurised to present Joran van der Sloot as an Aruban, not a Dutch national.

ANP does not say when and where Croes made the comments, or if it had picked them up from another source.

http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2008/12/van_der_sloots_father_hindered.php


Beth Twitty
On the Record w/ Greta
November 14, 2005


VAN SUSTEREN: : We're saying that even the AG is controlled by The Hague, so they're keeping Karen Janssen on ...

TWITTY: Well Greta, somebody is lobbying for Joran in the Hague in order to protect him ..... it has to be.


Beth Twitty
'Rita Cosby Live & Direct'
December 1, 2005


BETH HOLLOWAY TWITTY, NATALEE HOLLOWAY'S MOTHER: Well, of course, it's very frustrating. You know, the entire investigation, that's all we've had is frustration coming out of the officials from Aruba.  You know, evidence—you know when evidence is gathered and lost or evidence is never gathered when it's supposed to be, just (INAUDIBLE) the primary residence of Paulus Van Der Sloot was never searched —I mean, you know, it just can't help but raise all the questions of—and leave us frustrated.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10295536/




So who is Lobbying for Joran and how are they connected to the VDS family??


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: SS on December 04, 2008, 12:52:38 PM
Paulus only SAID he went to the bank twice on Monday, etc.  No record of multiple transactions I am pretty sure.  Long lines in Aruba, lol.

Frankly, I just don't believe everything he says.  At some point in time I believe he was in contact with vd Straten or someone designated for dealing with things. 




Voking was in on it, too.  I never believed that he took time off to stay with his dear friend, Paulass, during his time of trouble.  Voking was involved that night and they had to get him out of the police station for a while.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: SS on December 04, 2008, 12:58:43 PM
I certainly do hope that there are lots of soiled undergarments in Aruba today. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: ldstlou on December 04, 2008, 12:59:33 PM
I certainly do hope that there are lots of soiled undergarments in Aruba today. 

rofl


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: CapsLockWizard on December 04, 2008, 01:03:22 PM
"Dat Kan Ik Mijn Vriend Paul Niet Aandoen" = "I can not let this happening to my Friend Paules"

This was the exact qoute of Jan van Straten.

As I said, the End of the Higher-ups is almost done.

Like chiks in a basked, all are seeking cover, the heat is on.

When Van Straten Attaced Rudy Croes by accusing Rudy by saying that the  Warda Nos Costa is Political Managed, Rudy Croes attacked back by exposing Van Straten.

Van Straten Made so Many Accusation that now between the Holland and Aruba and specialy Curacao on the base of the common Court of Law, for St. Maarten and the BES Islands.

Rudy want his own court to be establsih in Aruba. The Flexteam that Jan Van Straten use in the 10 day's of Natalee desapearance, are not Investigators. But Rudy was aware of that and did permit it to continue.....LOL

Rudy and his Lordship did know everyday what was going on... the Gamble they took was the wrong one.

I know all the people in the Flexteam and now all the chikens are seeking cover...LOL.

Open question that still Rudy want to have answer on: ---> Like he does not know...LOL

Why is that Jan Van Straten wanted to Incriminate 2 color person to deviate attention from Joran?
Why was all that fuss about Joran being interviewed on Camera.? Joran Knew he was being recorded.
Why so many previlages to Joran?
Why was Joran Interogated in Holand and not in Aruba.?
Why Was Joran not Interogated in Papiament here in Aruba.?
Why was Jan Van Straten tried to Incriminate a Drug Addict.?

and so the WAR of the LORDS has started....

the on that help still have to taked....the one that did the clean-up B.W. Team.

....patient the wheel is spinned and how fast it spin depends on the spinner.

CAPSLOCKWIZARD.



 





 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Keepthefaith on December 04, 2008, 01:07:53 PM
"Dat Kan Ik Mijn Vriend Paul Niet Aandoen" = "I can not let this happening to my Friend Paules"

This was the exact qoute of Jan van Straten.

As I said, the End of the Higher-ups is almost done.

Like chiks in a basked, all are seeking cover, the heat is on.

When Van Straten Attaced Rudy Croes by accusing Rudy by saying that the  Warda Nos Costa is Political Managed, Rudy Croes attacked back by exposing Van Straten.

Van Straten Made so Many Accusation that now between the Holland and Aruba and specialy Curacao on the base of the common Court of Law, for St. Maarten and the BES Islands.

Rudy want his own court to be establsih in Aruba. The Flexteam that Jan Van Straten use in the 10 day's of Natalee desapearance, are not Investigators. But Rudy was aware of that and did permit it to continue.....LOL

Rudy and his Lordship did know everyday what was going on... the Gamble they took was the wrong one.

I know all the people in the Flexteam and now all the chikens are seeking cover...LOL.

Open question that still Rudy want to have answer on: ---> Like he does not know...LOL

Why is that Jan Van Straten wanted to Incriminate 2 color person to deviate attention from Joran?
Why was all that fuss about Joran being interviewed on Camera.? Joran Knew he was being recorded.
Why so many previlages to Joran?
Why was Joran Interogated in Holand and not in Aruba.?
Why Was Joran not Interogated in Papiament here in Aruba.?
Why was Jan Van Straten tried to Incriminate a Drug Addict.?

and so the WAR of the LORDS has started....

the on that help still have to taked....the one that did the clean-up B.W. Team.

....patient the wheel is spinned and how fast it spin depends on the spinner.

CAPSLOCKWIZARD.



 





 


Honestly Caps!Will anyone go to jail for anything????


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: klaasend on December 04, 2008, 01:08:16 PM
"Dat Kan Ik Mijn Vriend Paul Niet Aandoen" = "I can not let this happening to my Friend Paules"

This was the exact qoute of Jan van Straten.

As I said, the End of the Higher-ups is almost done.

Like chiks in a basked, all are seeking cover, the heat is on.

When Van Straten Attaced Rudy Croes by accusing Rudy by saying that the  Warda Nos Costa is Political Managed, Rudy Croes attacked back by exposing Van Straten.

Van Straten Made so Many Accusation that now between the Holland and Aruba and specialy Curacao on the base of the common Court of Law, for St. Maarten and the BES Islands.

Rudy want his own court to be establsih in Aruba. The Flexteam that Jan Van Straten use in the 10 day's of Natalee desapearance, are not Investigators. But Rudy was aware of that and did permit it to continue.....LOL

Rudy and his Lordship did know everyday what was going on... the Gamble they took was the wrong one.

I know all the people in the Flexteam and now all the chikens are seeking cover...LOL.

Open question that still Rudy want to have answer on: ---> Like he does not know...LOL

Why is that Jan Van Straten wanted to Incriminate 2 color person to deviate attention from Joran?
Why was all that fuss about Joran being interviewed on Camera.? Joran Knew he was being recorded.
Why so many previlages to Joran?
Why was Joran Interogated in Holand and not in Aruba.?
Why Was Joran not Interogated in Papiament here in Aruba.?
Why was Jan Van Straten tried to Incriminate a Drug Addict.?

and so the WAR of the LORDS has started....

the on that help still have to taked....the one that did the clean-up B.W. Team.

....patient the wheel is spinned and how fast it spin depends on the spinner.

CAPSLOCKWIZARD.



 





 

Finally - thanks Caps


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: MumInOhio on December 04, 2008, 01:08:26 PM
I certainly do hope that there are lots of soiled undergarments in Aruba today. 

rofl


Lisa...this says that Deepak was at work after school...This is the Monday night...Am I on on the right day?

For some reason, I am thinking Karen with the "No Body No Case"

Will look as to what Deepak said when asked about that.

Joran 6/14/2005 PV

At approximately 17.00 pm, I was dropped off by my father at the Racquet Club. Between the hours of 16.00 pm and 17.00 pm, I did my homework and also "chatted". I do not remember with who I chatted. It could be possible that I chatted with Deepak because he does that a lot from where he works. I am not sure about that.


Between the hours of 17.00 pm and 18.00 pm I was in the gym. I was talking there with "Koen" nickname "Cul". We spoke that it was weak and that no one was there.

My tennis lesson was between the hours of 18.00 pm and 19.00 pm. According to me I was not called by anyone during that time. I also made no calls myself. Approximately 19.00 pm, I was done with playing tennis. I showered in the clubhouse. After I had finished showering I got dressed. I do not remember what I put on that day. I was wearing a short trousers and a T-shirt. It looked pretty nice. I also wore slippers. Then I called "Andre". I do not remember his phone number. Andre lives near the Marriot Hotel. We had agreed that we would meet at the Wyndham Hotel at approximately 20.00 pm to play poker. I had then also called Guido. Guido had told me that he had to go to work. He would come later and try to enter the tournament for half time. I had also called my father and asked if I could play poker at the Wyndham Casino. My father gave me permission.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: johan555 on December 04, 2008, 01:09:43 PM
Is this also news in aruba caps ?
i see on the frontpage (Amigoe ) something about mosquitoes  ::MonkeyHaHa::
woont vd straten nog op aruba caps ?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Blonde on December 04, 2008, 01:10:40 PM
Trying to put it all together, and I am leaning towards Natalee passed at the slot house of a siezure from a date rape drug. joran freaks and gets Paulus up. Paulus is trying to figure out what to do...looks up on the computer the effects of drugs and alcohol. Natalee, expires. Gathers the boys up that morning around the pool to create their story and to figure out what to do with Natalee. Sends joran off to school and calls in van der sloot. Van der sloot is able to keep the chaperone limited to just the visibility team..no police would show up. Van der sloot and van der straaten arrange for someone to take Natalee far away in a boat. paulus makes several trips to the bank to get the money put together. They meet the person with the boat, pay him the $10,000, and Natalee is taken away where she will never be found. Deepak and joran NOT at the casino, but meeting the man with the boat. When Jug and Beth arrive, deepak and joran are getting back, sweaty and dirty.

you know what else I am REALLY curious about???!!! Remember the guy who claimed to have the frozen condom? all the talk about not having a condom? What if a used condom was part of what was disposed of and the guy was trying to scare the sloots into blackmail $$ by pretending he had kept it back as evidence?

Betcha so much stuff is finally going to make sense and all the things we were focused on...turns out to be little parts of the puzzle.


WITNESSES –


COLUMBIAN ON THE BEACH witness who claims to have seen a rape, murder and disposal of a young woman at the California sand dunes. Claims to have 2 pieces of evidence from the crime. Later discredited. See above under arrestees.



FISHERMEN - Saw a white vehicle but no activity or persons on 5-30-05 at the area around the fishermen’s huts at Hadicurari where Joran claims he took and left Natalee.


JOGGER – Jossy Mansur said that his information is that the unknown jogger near the “Marriott Hotel”/drained pond witness telephoned police with his 5-30 observations 2 or 3 days after Natalee disappeared (6-1 or 6-2), and he phoned from a public pay telephone.


JUNIOR - the landfill witness who claims to have seen a blonde woman being disposed of,and a white truck. the landfill witness said he witnessed the 3 men burying the body on 6-1. described to him that the body was that of a woman with long blonde hair. The landfill witness claimed he saw her breasts. He also noticed a jeep-like vehicle sitting close to the white truck. The landfill witness saw the 3 persons bury the blonde woman’s body in a specific spot, after which the 3 men found a blue plastic “kiddie’s pool” in the dump and placed the “kiddie’s pool” over where they buried the blonde woman. The witness also obtained the license plate nu-ber of the truck they were driving and gave it to the police, but when the police checked on the license plate number they reported that the car that license plate number was registered to “was not near the landfill.” Jossy Mansur said the license plate of the pickup truck that JUNIOR saw at the landfill has been traced to a Chevrolet “Malibu.”


RAMOS, Carlos Alberto Penata (DOB 2-25-79, Cartagena, Columbia) - the gardner witness who claims to have seen 3 boys in Deepak’s car on the dirt road by the pond at the Racquet Club on 5-30-05 at approximately 2:30 AM. Identifies Joran in front seat, Deepak in passenger seat, and unidentified male in rear seat. Claims passenger has hand up besides face, and the driver (identified as Joran) is sitting far back in the seat. His employer was Eric Mansur.
STATEMENTS to Police 7-26-05 through 8-16-05: http://www.scaredmonkeys.net/viewtopic.php?t=271

Thanks Sweetie!!! So much of the info is so discombobulated in my blonde head after all this time!! lol

Hey Blonde...do you remember how we determined the meeting around the pool was Monday?

What was the meeting about and I will look in my notes


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: SS on December 04, 2008, 01:12:05 PM
"Dat Kan Ik Mijn Vriend Paul Niet Aandoen" = "I can not let this happening to my Friend Paules"

This was the exact qoute of Jan van Straten.

As I said, the End of the Higher-ups is almost done.

Like chiks in a basked, all are seeking cover, the heat is on.

When Van Straten Attaced Rudy Croes by accusing Rudy by saying that the  Warda Nos Costa is Political Managed, Rudy Croes attacked back by exposing Van Straten.

Van Straten Made so Many Accusation that now between the Holland and Aruba and specialy Curacao on the base of the common Court of Law, for St. Maarten and the BES Islands.

Rudy want his own court to be establsih in Aruba. The Flexteam that Jan Van Straten use in the 10 day's of Natalee desapearance, are not Investigators. But Rudy was aware of that and did permit it to continue.....LOL

Rudy and his Lordship did know everyday what was going on... the Gamble they took was the wrong one.

I know all the people in the Flexteam and now all the chikens are seeking cover...LOL.

Open question that still Rudy want to have answer on: ---> Like he does not know...LOL

Why is that Jan Van Straten wanted to Incriminate 2 color person to deviate attention from Joran?
Why was all that fuss about Joran being interviewed on Camera.? Joran Knew he was being recorded.
Why so many previlages to Joran?
Why was Joran Interogated in Holand and not in Aruba.?
Why Was Joran not Interogated in Papiament here in Aruba.?
Why was Jan Van Straten tried to Incriminate a Drug Addict.?

and so the WAR of the LORDS has started....

the on that help still have to taked....the one that did the clean-up B.W. Team.

....patient the wheel is spinned and how fast it spin depends on the spinner.

CAPSLOCKWIZARD.



 





 




Thanks, Caps.  Will Mos decide to keep the case open now or will he actually try to close it?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: EURobert on December 04, 2008, 01:14:32 PM
Just in Dutch Newsshow 'Hart van Nederland': 'Police helped father of Joran.'
Justice now demands a thorough investigation.
PvdS was given ALL results from the investigation, including FBI results.
PeterRdV: It's clear now that not only the house searches of the VdSloots were obstructed but the investigation itself was also from the start! Such a conduct never could have happened in the NL's.
Pressure now is increasing on PvdS.




Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: CapsLockWizard on December 04, 2008, 01:15:16 PM
"Dat Kan Ik Mijn Vriend Paul Niet Aandoen" = "I can not let this happening to my Friend Paules"

This was the exact qoute of Jan van Straten.

As I said, the End of the Higher-ups is almost done.

Like chiks in a basked, all are seeking cover, the heat is on.

When Van Straten Attaced Rudy Croes by accusing Rudy by saying that the  Warda Nos Costa is Political Managed, Rudy Croes attacked back by exposing Van Straten.

Van Straten Made so Many Accusation that now between the Holland and Aruba and specialy Curacao on the base of the common Court of Law, for St. Maarten and the BES Islands.

Rudy want his own court to be establsih in Aruba. The Flexteam that Jan Van Straten use in the 10 day's of Natalee desapearance, are not Investigators. But Rudy was aware of that and did permit it to continue.....LOL

Rudy and his Lordship did know everyday what was going on... the Gamble they took was the wrong one.

I know all the people in the Flexteam and now all the chikens are seeking cover...LOL.

Open question that still Rudy want to have answer on: ---> Like he does not know...LOL

Why is that Jan Van Straten wanted to Incriminate 2 color person to deviate attention from Joran?
Why was all that fuss about Joran being interviewed on Camera.? Joran Knew he was being recorded.
Why so many previlages to Joran?
Why was Joran Interogated in Holand and not in Aruba.?
Why Was Joran not Interogated in Papiament here in Aruba.?
Why was Jan Van Straten tried to Incriminate a Drug Addict.?

and so the WAR of the LORDS has started....

the on that help still have to taked....the one that did the clean-up B.W. Team.

....patient the wheel is spinned and how fast it spin depends on the spinner.

CAPSLOCKWIZARD.



 





 


Honestly Caps!Will anyone go to jail for anything????

This time, it all depend of the spinner and I do believe that the checkmate is done and no way out this time. for sure.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Keepthefaith on December 04, 2008, 01:15:20 PM
Just in Dutch Newsshow 'Hart van Nederland': 'Police helped father of Joran.'
Justice now demands a thorough investigation.
PvdS was given ALL results from the investigation, including FBI results.
PeterRdV: It's clear now that not only the house searches of the VdSloots were obstructed but the investigation itself was also from the start! Such a conduct never could have happened in the NL's.
Pressure now is increasing on PvdS.




 ::cartwheel:: ::cartwheel:: ::cartwheel::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: johan555 on December 04, 2008, 01:16:45 PM


 
[/quote]

Thanks, Caps.  Will Mos decide to keep the case open now or will he actually try to close it?
[/quote]

When a minister ( the Boss of Hans Mos ) said this, the only thing Mos can do is arrest Paul vd Sloot and
jan vd Straten and not tomorrow but today !!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Anna on December 04, 2008, 01:16:53 PM
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/8430777

Karin Janssen:  The father has spoken with those three suspects, and he said he gave them some legal advice--but I think the advices were going further than that-- They spoke about the situation that when there is no body, you don’t have a case, and that was already in the first day after the disappearance. The father and the mother have asked a friend of Joran’s, the suspect, the minor suspect, to come to their home to tell them what he has explained to the police. And that is--well, I can say--was an obstruction of the investigation.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: SS on December 04, 2008, 01:16:56 PM
Just in Dutch Newsshow 'Hart van Nederland': 'Police helped father of Joran.'
Justice now demands a thorough investigation.
PvdS was given ALL results from the investigation, including FBI results.
PeterRdV: It's clear now that not only the house searches of the VdSloots were obstructed but the investigation itself was also from the start! Such a conduct never could have happened in the NL's.
Pressure now is increasing on PvdS.



[/quo




I hope someone has Paulass on suicide watch.  It would be an easy way out for him right now.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: truthseeker2 on December 04, 2008, 01:17:13 PM
Well...I just don't know what to think right now.  I guess I will turn in for the night and try again tomorrow.  I may have to go back to my first conclusion, too.  That takes me all over the place looking into things.

'Nite, monkeys.  Will be workin' and lurkin' again tomorrow!

Thank you so much for the seasonal avitar!!  It's beautiful!!!!!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Anna on December 04, 2008, 01:18:20 PM
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/8430777

Karin Janssen:  The father has spoken with those three suspects, and he said he gave them some legal advice--but I think the advices were going further than that-- They spoke about the situation that when there is no body, you don’t have a case, and that was already in the first day after the disappearance. The father and the mother have asked a friend of Joran’s, the suspect, the minor suspect, to come to their home to tell them what he has explained to the police. And that is--well, I can say--was an obstruction of the investigation.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: SS on December 04, 2008, 01:20:04 PM
Is this also news in aruba caps ?
i see on the frontpage (Amigoe ) something about mosquitoes  ::MonkeyHaHa::
woont vd straten nog op aruba caps ?



I doubt if it will be in BonDia or Aruba Today!   ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: MumInOhio on December 04, 2008, 01:21:05 PM
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/8430777

Karin Janssen:  The father has spoken with those three suspects, and he said he gave them some legal advice--but I think the advices were going further than that-- They spoke about the situation that when there is no body, you don’t have a case, and that was already in the first day after the disappearance. The father and the mother have asked a friend of Joran’s, the suspect, the minor suspect, to come to their home to tell them what he has explained to the police. And that is--well, I can say--was an obstruction of the investigation.


Thank You Anna...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Anna on December 04, 2008, 01:21:17 PM
1/11/06 - "The release said that the team in charge of the investigation in the case of the disappearance of Natalee Holloway, has a strong suspicion that the young women in question lost her life as a consequence of a punishable offence committed against her."

http://getagripmonkey.blogspot.com/search?q=Petition

Credit: Igsigs



So I wonder what happened to change their minds.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Tamikosmom on December 04, 2008, 01:23:09 PM
Tamikosmom is experience a vision ... it is becoming clearer ... clearer ... YES!!!!  Dutch police commissioner Jan van der Straten is the sacrificial lamb in the Natalee Holloway case.

++++++++
 

BREAKING NEWS!!!

ARUBAN PRIME MINISTER'S OFFICE
DECEMBER, 2008

ARUBA IS CLOSING THE NATALEE HOLLOWAY INVESTIGATION.

ARUBA CONCEDES THAT THE INVESTIGATION WAS COMPROMISED IN THE INITIAL STAGES BY DUTCH POLICE COMMISSIONER JAN VAN DER STRATEN.  IT HAS BEEN DETERMINED THE POLICE COMMISSIONER TOOK STEPS TO PROTECT JORAN VAN DER SLOOT FROM BEING IMPLICATED AS A FAVOR TO HIS FRIEND PAULUS VAN DER SLOOT.

ARUBA APOLOGIZES TO THE FAMILY OF NATALEE HOLLOWAY THAT THE ACTIONS OF THE POLICE COMMISSION 3 1/2 YEARS AGO IMPLIES THAT IT IS TOO LATE FOR JUSTICE TO PREVAIL.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Anna on December 04, 2008, 01:24:54 PM
Note that this is ERIC speaking and not Stanley


Investigation of the Police Force is not necessary
by A.M. Digital

Posted: Jul 9, 2005 18:10 UTC

ORANJESTAD - The Natalee Holloway case certainly has Aruba upside down. There is a lot of pressure on the Government and on the investigating team.

According to Eric Zaandam, president of the Police union SPA, it is unfortunate that the case has not yet been solved, but more unfortunate are the negative expressions towards the police force by amongst others the Minister of Justice, Rudy Croes, and by Prime Minister Nelson Oduber.

“This is to regretted because, instead of receiving support our own Government dignitaries express themselves negatively about the police” said Zaandam. “Minister Rudy Croes even mentioned that he will bring in a police team from Curaçao to investigate their colleagues in Aruba.”

Eric Zaandam wishes for the Minister of Justice to understand once and for all that the investigating team is responsible and has to report to the Public Prosecutor, and this happens all the time. The investigating team has no obligation to report to anybody else, including the Minister of Justice. The Minister may well bring any team from abroad but the Aruba Police Force will not report to any team.

Those that wish to have information will have to knock on the door at the Public Prosecutor’s office and not interrogate any member of the investigating team, according to the union leader. Minister Croes should not try to play the police forces of other islands against the Aruba police force.

SPA learned of the intentions of the Aruba Minister of Justice when they were in Surinam to commemorate 100 years of existence of the Surinam police force. Here they advised their colleague from the Netherlands Antilles not to fall in the trap of the Aruba Minister. SPA also contacted the Netherlands Antillean Police Union on the matter.

If the Aruba Minister of Justice wants information, he will have to approach the Public Prosecutor, and not accuse any member of the investigating team of leaking information. The investigating team did not commit any crime and an investigation is not necessary.

“The Aruba Police have already cooperated with all the teams that wished to help with the investigation of the disappearance of Natalee Holloway, except Scotland Yard” said Zaandam.

In police circles it is already agreed that they will not collaborate with any team that comes in to investigate the investigating team of the Natalee Holloway case.

http://news.caribseek.com/set-up/exec/view.cgi?archive=72&num=16771


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: ldstlou on December 04, 2008, 01:25:24 PM
Tamikosmom is experience a vision ... it is becoming clearer ... clearer ... YES!!!!  Dutch police commissioner Jan van der Straten is the sacrificial lamb in the Natalee Holloway case.

++++++++
 

BREAKING NEWS!!!

ARUBAN PRIME MINISTER'S OFFICE
DECEMBER, 2008

ARUBA IS CLOSING THE NATALEE HOLLOWAY INVESTIGATION.

ARUBA CONCEDES THAT THE INVESTIGATION WAS COMPROMISED IN THE INITIAL STAGES BY DUTCH POLICE COMMISSIONER JAN VAN DER STRATEN.  IT HAS BEEN DETERMINED THE POLICE COMMISSIONER TOOK STEPS TO PROTECT JORAN VAN DER SLOOT FROM BEING IMPLICATED AS A FAVOR TO HIS FRIEND PAULUS VAN DER SLOOT.

ARUBA APOLOGIZES TO THE FAMILY OF NATALEE HOLLOWAY THAT THE ACTIONS OF THE POLICE COMMISSION 3 1/2 YEARS AGO IMPLIES THAT IT IS TOO LATE FOR JUSTICE TO PREVAIL.


you scared me!! Thought this was an article!! lol


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: johan555 on December 04, 2008, 01:25:45 PM
caps this is a papparazzi picture
vd straten is not happy with him  lol ::MonkeyHaHa::
do you know who the other people are ?

(http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh25/johan555/JanvanderStraten-2-Bijeenkomst.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Anna on December 04, 2008, 01:27:15 PM
caps this is a papparazzi picture
vd straten is not happy with him  lol ::MonkeyHaHa::
do you know who the other people are ?

(http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh25/johan555/JanvanderStraten-2-Bijeenkomst.jpg)


Nice cap, Uncle Jan!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: MumInOhio on December 04, 2008, 01:27:42 PM
Bank and pool meeting on Monday...Thought the pool meeting was in the evening, but it isn't documented in the statements....Ah....because Joran wasn't home...

I thought so. Bank and a payoff!!! Right from the get-go before Beth even touched down. And we kept asking why the police would not come take a report from the chaperone!!! Now we know!! Van der sloot was already on it!!!


Let's also not forget Paulus was only a brisk few footseps away from his pal Charles Croes' Digicel offices when he went to the bank. Twice.

Dayhiker...LOL...I have been trying to track this down for a couple of hours now....

CC's Fast Phones at the airport and a new mall, may have closed now?

Digicel?

SETAR owns Telearuba and is owned by a company with the government as shareholders...

So who is next door to the bank? Who owns SETAR...site down as is Telearuba...for me anyways!...Any more info would be appreciated?


Caps ... do you know which phone office is next door to the bank that Paulus visited, please.

Thanks In Advance as Always.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: SS on December 04, 2008, 01:28:06 PM
Tamikosmom is experience a vision ... it is becoming clearer ... clearer ... YES!!!!  Dutch police commissioner Jan van der Straten is the sacrificial lamb in the Natalee Holloway case.

++++++++
 

BREAKING NEWS!!!

ARUBAN PRIME MINISTER'S OFFICE
DECEMBER, 2008

ARUBA IS CLOSING THE NATALEE HOLLOWAY INVESTIGATION.

ARUBA CONCEDES THAT THE INVESTIGATION WAS COMPROMISED IN THE INITIAL STAGES BY DUTCH POLICE COMMISSIONER JAN VAN DER STRATEN.  IT HAS BEEN DETERMINED THE POLICE COMMISSIONER TOOK STEPS TO PROTECT JORAN VAN DER SLOOT FROM BEING IMPLICATED AS A FAVOR TO HIS FRIEND PAULUS VAN DER SLOOT.

ARUBA APOLOGIZES TO THE FAMILY OF NATALEE HOLLOWAY THAT THE ACTIONS OF THE POLICE COMMISSION 3 1/2 YEARS AGO IMPLIES THAT IT IS TOO LATE FOR JUSTICE TO PREVAIL.


you scared me!! Thought this was an article!! lol




Don't feel badly ldstlou, I bit the hook at first, too.   ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Anna on December 04, 2008, 01:30:31 PM
Apparently the answer is yes, he did. This according to RWV July 3 2005.

>>>>>SNIPPED

Translation: The Public Ministry (Aruban prosecutor's office) affirmed that Ben King, head of the support division of the Attorney General, was present at the house of the Van der Sloot family when it was being searched Thursday last week.

Spokesperson Marianne Croes, of the prosecutor's office: “King was and is on holiday. He was indeed not present on behalf of the PM (during the search of the van der Sloot estate)” The spokesperson doesn’t want to comment on the various observations that find it strange that a member of the PM was present at the house of the suspects family while the search took place.

Sources within the PM affirm however that the PM as a whole is not happy at all with the actions of Ben King, because this may raise doubts with regard to the impartiality of the ministry. .

King himself says that he and his family have been good friends with the Van der Sloots for some years now. Paul van der Sloot also worked for the PM in the past. King: “A few years ago, when I was working at KIA (local prison), I was maltreated by a prisoner and went through a rough period during which the Van der Sloot family provided us with fantastic support. We want to do the same for them now. But I realize naturally that I cannot stand at both sides on the line.”

And because of this King took some time off from his job to be able to support his friends. King: “It is a small island where conclusions are drawn very fast.” Both Public Ministry and I realize that we have to remain cool-headed. At the same time I have my rights as private-citizen and I want to support my friends in this difficult period.” Ben King was formerly named Vocking, he changed his name a few months ago and his name is now officially King.
_________________


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Blonde on December 04, 2008, 01:32:41 PM
you scared me!! Thought this was an article!! ME TOO ::MonkeyShocked::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: ldstlou on December 04, 2008, 01:32:43 PM
I certainly do hope that there are lots of soiled undergarments in Aruba today. 

rofl


Lisa...this says that Deepak was at work after school...This is the Monday night...Am I on on the right day?

For some reason, I am thinking Karen with the "No Body No Case"

Will look as to what Deepak said when asked about that.

Joran 6/14/2005 PV

At approximately 17.00 pm, I was dropped off by my father at the Racquet Club. Between the hours of 16.00 pm and 17.00 pm, I did my homework and also "chatted". I do not remember with who I chatted. It could be possible that I chatted with Deepak because he does that a lot from where he works. I am not sure about that.


Between the hours of 17.00 pm and 18.00 pm I was in the gym. I was talking there with "Koen" nickname "Cul". We spoke that it was weak and that no one was there.

My tennis lesson was between the hours of 18.00 pm and 19.00 pm. According to me I was not called by anyone during that time. I also made no calls myself. Approximately 19.00 pm, I was done with playing tennis. I showered in the clubhouse. After I had finished showering I got dressed. I do not remember what I put on that day. I was wearing a short trousers and a T-shirt. It looked pretty nice. I also wore slippers. Then I called "Andre". I do not remember his phone number. Andre lives near the Marriot Hotel. We had agreed that we would meet at the Wyndham Hotel at approximately 20.00 pm to play poker. I had then also called Guido. Guido had told me that he had to go to work. He would come later and try to enter the tournament for half time. I had also called my father and asked if I could play poker at the Wyndham Casino. My father gave me permission.



hmmmm...remember though...that we had pieced together that it had to be Monday ..it had something to do with the boys being there Tuesday when Beth got to the police station...and having their story together Monday night...there was just so much to it and I can't remember what??!! It came together when some of those early statements were finally released...remember?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Tamikosmom on December 04, 2008, 01:33:07 PM
Over three three years following Rudy Croes words to the Beth Twitty regarding "who let this go wrong." ... he has figured it out.

GMAB

Janet

_______


Posted 8/22/2005  11:36 AM     Updated 8/22/2005 11:59 AM
Aruba leader acknowledges early mistakes in probe


ORANJESTAD, Aruba (AP) — Aruba's prime minister believes that authorities made mistakes at the start of the investigation of the Natalee Holloway case, a government spokesman said Monday.

Beth Holloway Twitty, who has often criticized authorities on the Dutch Caribbean island since her daughter disappeared on May 30, met in private with Prime Minister Nelson Oduber over the weekend.

"I think that he's in absolute agreement that the initial investigation has been so badly botched," Holloway Twitty said on NBC's "Today" show.

She said the prime minister also told her that Aruba needs to review the first stages of the investigation to find out "who let this go wrong."  
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2005-08-22-aruba_x.htm

 
Police head hindered Holloway investigation
Published: Thursday 04 December 2008 10:28 UTC
Last updated: Thursday 04 December 2008 10:35 UTC

 
The Aruban Minister of Justice, Rudy Croes, has told the ANP news agency that the investigation into the 2005 disappearance of Natalee Holloway was severely hindered in its initial stages by the island's Dutch police commissioner. Mr Croes said former commissioner Jan van de Straten did this to help his friend Paul van der Sloot, the father of the chief suspect in the US high school graduate's disappearance.

Mr Croes also said that Mr Van de Straten appeared to have made a conscious decision not to arrest Joran van der Sloot and two other suspects until ten days after Ms Holloway disappeared, even though the first few days are crucial in such an investigation. He went on to say that Mr Van de Straten and Mr Van der Sloot conducted lengthy telephone conversations after the disappearance and that the commissioner deployed a team of second-rank officers to investigate it.

Mr Croes added that a Dutch minister had asked the Aruban authorities to conceal as much as possible the fact that Joran van der Sloot was Dutch.

http://www.radionetherlands.nl/news/international/6079658/Claims-that-police-head-hindered-Holloway-investigation


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: MumInOhio on December 04, 2008, 01:34:20 PM
Apparently the answer is yes, he did. This according to RWV July 3 2005.

>>>>>SNIPPED

Translation: The Public Ministry (Aruban prosecutor's office) affirmed that Ben King, head of the support division of the Attorney General, was present at the house of the Van der Sloot family when it was being searched Thursday last week.

Spokesperson Marianne Croes, of the prosecutor's office: “King was and is on holiday. He was indeed not present on behalf of the PM (during the search of the van der Sloot estate)” The spokesperson doesn’t want to comment on the various observations that find it strange that a member of the PM was present at the house of the suspects family while the search took place.

Sources within the PM affirm however that the PM as a whole is not happy at all with the actions of Ben King, because this may raise doubts with regard to the impartiality of the ministry. .

King himself says that he and his family have been good friends with the Van der Sloots for some years now. Paul van der Sloot also worked for the PM in the past. King: “A few years ago, when I was working at KIA (local prison), I was maltreated by a prisoner and went through a rough period during which the Van der Sloot family provided us with fantastic support. We want to do the same for them now. But I realize naturally that I cannot stand at both sides on the line.”

And because of this King took some time off from his job to be able to support his friends. King: “It is a small island where conclusions are drawn very fast.” Both Public Ministry and I realize that we have to remain cool-headed. At the same time I have my rights as private-citizen and I want to support my friends in this difficult period.” Ben King was formerly named Vocking, he changed his name a few months ago and his name is now officially King.
_________________



Interesting Anna...Thanks!



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Tamikosmom on December 04, 2008, 01:35:34 PM
Tamikosmom is experience a vision ... it is becoming clearer ... clearer ... YES!!!!  Dutch police commissioner Jan van der Straten is the sacrificial lamb in the Natalee Holloway case.

++++++++
 

BREAKING NEWS!!!

ARUBAN PRIME MINISTER'S OFFICE
DECEMBER, 2008

ARUBA IS CLOSING THE NATALEE HOLLOWAY INVESTIGATION.

ARUBA CONCEDES THAT THE INVESTIGATION WAS COMPROMISED IN THE INITIAL STAGES BY DUTCH POLICE COMMISSIONER JAN VAN DER STRATEN.  IT HAS BEEN DETERMINED THE POLICE COMMISSIONER TOOK STEPS TO PROTECT JORAN VAN DER SLOOT FROM BEING IMPLICATED AS A FAVOR TO HIS FRIEND PAULUS VAN DER SLOOT.

ARUBA APOLOGIZES TO THE FAMILY OF NATALEE HOLLOWAY THAT THE ACTIONS OF THE POLICE COMMISSION 3 1/2 YEARS AGO IMPLIES THAT IT IS TOO LATE FOR JUSTICE TO PREVAIL.


you scared me!! Thought this was an article!! lol

Don't feel badly ldstlou, I bit the hook at first, too.   ::MonkeyHaHa::

Hey ... it is not my fault if you did not read my entire post.

 ::MonkeyHaHa::

Good Morning Monkeys.

Janet
10:35 AM PT


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: SS on December 04, 2008, 01:38:37 PM
Apparently the answer is yes, he did. This according to RWV July 3 2005.

>>>>>SNIPPED

Translation: The Public Ministry (Aruban prosecutor's office) affirmed that Ben King, head of the support division of the Attorney General, was present at the house of the Van der Sloot family when it was being searched Thursday last week.

Spokesperson Marianne Croes, of the prosecutor's office: “King was and is on holiday. He was indeed not present on behalf of the PM (during the search of the van der Sloot estate)” The spokesperson doesn’t want to comment on the various observations that find it strange that a member of the PM was present at the house of the suspects family while the search took place.

Sources within the PM affirm however that the PM as a whole is not happy at all with the actions of Ben King, because this may raise doubts with regard to the impartiality of the ministry. .

King himself says that he and his family have been good friends with the Van der Sloots for some years now. Paul van der Sloot also worked for the PM in the past. King: “A few years ago, when I was working at KIA (local prison), I was maltreated by a prisoner and went through a rough period during which the Van der Sloot family provided us with fantastic support. We want to do the same for them now. But I realize naturally that I cannot stand at both sides on the line.”

And because of this King took some time off from his job to be able to support his friends. King: “It is a small island where conclusions are drawn very fast.” Both Public Ministry and I realize that we have to remain cool-headed. At the same time I have my rights as private-citizen and I want to support my friends in this difficult period.” Ben King was formerly named Vocking, he changed his name a few months ago and his name is now officially King.
_________________





We were told that Voking/Ben King was actually part of the body disposal that night.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Keepthefaith on December 04, 2008, 01:38:53 PM
"Dat Kan Ik Mijn Vriend Paul Niet Aandoen" = "I can not let this happening to my Friend Paules"

This was the exact qoute of Jan van Straten.

As I said, the End of the Higher-ups is almost done.

Like chiks in a basked, all are seeking cover, the heat is on.

When Van Straten Attaced Rudy Croes by accusing Rudy by saying that the  Warda Nos Costa is Political Managed, Rudy Croes attacked back by exposing Van Straten.

Van Straten Made so Many Accusation that now between the Holland and Aruba and specialy Curacao on the base of the common Court of Law, for St. Maarten and the BES Islands.

Rudy want his own court to be establsih in Aruba. The Flexteam that Jan Van Straten use in the 10 day's of Natalee desapearance, are not Investigators. But Rudy was aware of that and did permit it to continue.....LOL

Rudy and his Lordship did know everyday what was going on... the Gamble they took was the wrong one.

I know all the people in the Flexteam and now all the chikens are seeking cover...LOL.

Open question that still Rudy want to have answer on: ---> Like he does not know...LOL

Why is that Jan Van Straten wanted to Incriminate 2 color person to deviate attention from Joran?
Why was all that fuss about Joran being interviewed on Camera.? Joran Knew he was being recorded.
Why so many previlages to Joran?
Why was Joran Interogated in Holand and not in Aruba.?
Why Was Joran not Interogated in Papiament here in Aruba.?
Why was Jan Van Straten tried to Incriminate a Drug Addict.?

and so the WAR of the LORDS has started....

the on that help still have to taked....the one that did the clean-up B.W. Team.

....patient the wheel is spinned and how fast it spin depends on the spinner.

CAPSLOCKWIZARD.



 





 


Honestly Caps!Will anyone go to jail for anything????

This time, it all depend of the spinner and I do believe that the checkmate is done and no way out this time. for sure.


Thanx Caps..Although we question sometimes.Please do not feel disrespected as we are on the outside looking in,as well as trying to understand a very confusing situation!For me anyways.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: ldstlou on December 04, 2008, 01:39:05 PM
Over three three years following Rudy Croes words to the Beth Twitty regarding "who let this go wrong." ... he has figured it out.

GMAB

Janet

_______


Posted 8/22/2005  11:36 AM     Updated 8/22/2005 11:59 AM
Aruba leader acknowledges early mistakes in probe


ORANJESTAD, Aruba (AP) — Aruba's prime minister believes that authorities made mistakes at the start of the investigation of the Natalee Holloway case, a government spokesman said Monday.

Beth Holloway Twitty, who has often criticized authorities on the Dutch Caribbean island since her daughter disappeared on May 30, met in private with Prime Minister Nelson Oduber over the weekend.

"I think that he's in absolute agreement that the initial investigation has been so badly botched," Holloway Twitty said on NBC's "Today" show.

She said the prime minister also told her that Aruba needs to review the first stages of the investigation to find out "who let this go wrong."  
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2005-08-22-aruba_x.htm

 
Police head hindered Holloway investigation
Published: Thursday 04 December 2008 10:28 UTC
Last updated: Thursday 04 December 2008 10:35 UTC

 
The Aruban Minister of Justice, Rudy Croes, has told the ANP news agency that the investigation into the 2005 disappearance of Natalee Holloway was severely hindered in its initial stages by the island's Dutch police commissioner. Mr Croes said former commissioner Jan van de Straten did this to help his friend Paul van der Sloot, the father of the chief suspect in the US high school graduate's disappearance.

Mr Croes also said that Mr Van de Straten appeared to have made a conscious decision not to arrest Joran van der Sloot and two other suspects until ten days after Ms Holloway disappeared, even though the first few days are crucial in such an investigation. He went on to say that Mr Van de Straten and Mr Van der Sloot conducted lengthy telephone conversations after the disappearance and that the commissioner deployed a team of second-rank officers to investigate it.

Mr Croes added that a Dutch minister had asked the Aruban authorities to conceal as much as possible the fact that Joran van der Sloot was Dutch.

http://www.radionetherlands.nl/news/international/6079658/Claims-that-police-head-hindered-Holloway-investigation


Good finds Janet!! Is Beth FINALLY going to receive some vindication??!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: MumInOhio on December 04, 2008, 01:41:03 PM
I certainly do hope that there are lots of soiled undergarments in Aruba today. 

rofl


Lisa...this says that Deepak was at work after school...This is the Monday night...Am I on on the right day?

For some reason, I am thinking Karen with the "No Body No Case"

Will look as to what Deepak said when asked about that.

Joran 6/14/2005 PV

At approximately 17.00 pm, I was dropped off by my father at the Racquet Club. Between the hours of 16.00 pm and 17.00 pm, I did my homework and also "chatted". I do not remember with who I chatted. It could be possible that I chatted with Deepak because he does that a lot from where he works. I am not sure about that.


Between the hours of 17.00 pm and 18.00 pm I was in the gym. I was talking there with "Koen" nickname "Cul". We spoke that it was weak and that no one was there.

My tennis lesson was between the hours of 18.00 pm and 19.00 pm. According to me I was not called by anyone during that time. I also made no calls myself. Approximately 19.00 pm, I was done with playing tennis. I showered in the clubhouse. After I had finished showering I got dressed. I do not remember what I put on that day. I was wearing a short trousers and a T-shirt. It looked pretty nice. I also wore slippers. Then I called "Andre". I do not remember his phone number. Andre lives near the Marriot Hotel. We had agreed that we would meet at the Wyndham Hotel at approximately 20.00 pm to play poker. I had then also called Guido. Guido had told me that he had to go to work. He would come later and try to enter the tournament for half time. I had also called my father and asked if I could play poker at the Wyndham Casino. My father gave me permission.



hmmmm...remember though...that we had pieced together that it had to be Monday ..it had something to do with the boys being there Tuesday when Beth got to the police station...and having their story together Monday night...there was just so much to it and I can't remember what??!! It came together when some of those early statements were finally released...remember?


I think Beth got there at 8 or 10AM and the car was there.  Van der Straten came outside, I think Beth was outside.  Jacobs was there. Lala's asked who was upstairs??? 

All I remember?

 



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: EURobert on December 04, 2008, 01:42:33 PM
Just in Dutch TVShow De Wereld Draait Door; parliamentarian Eelco Brinkman of the political party PVV: "I was tipped already that this obstruction of the investigation had happened. We send millions and millions of euro's to the antilles but still it is a bananarepublic.
The Islands must be totally independent of the NL's
Everything must come to the surface now.
I've send a letter to parliament and asked to get all things clear.
Maybe we even have to have an official 'parliamentary investigation'.
I will ask the government to sent the special police which investigates police conduct."


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: ldstlou on December 04, 2008, 01:43:23 PM
Tamikosmom is experience a vision ... it is becoming clearer ... clearer ... YES!!!!  Dutch police commissioner Jan van der Straten is the sacrificial lamb in the Natalee Holloway case.

++++++++
 

BREAKING NEWS!!!

ARUBAN PRIME MINISTER'S OFFICE
DECEMBER, 2008

ARUBA IS CLOSING THE NATALEE HOLLOWAY INVESTIGATION.

ARUBA CONCEDES THAT THE INVESTIGATION WAS COMPROMISED IN THE INITIAL STAGES BY DUTCH POLICE COMMISSIONER JAN VAN DER STRATEN.  IT HAS BEEN DETERMINED THE POLICE COMMISSIONER TOOK STEPS TO PROTECT JORAN VAN DER SLOOT FROM BEING IMPLICATED AS A FAVOR TO HIS FRIEND PAULUS VAN DER SLOOT.

ARUBA APOLOGIZES TO THE FAMILY OF NATALEE HOLLOWAY THAT THE ACTIONS OF THE POLICE COMMISSION 3 1/2 YEARS AGO IMPLIES THAT IT IS TOO LATE FOR JUSTICE TO PREVAIL.


you scared me!! Thought this was an article!! lol

Don't feel badly ldstlou, I bit the hook at first, too.   ::MonkeyHaHa::

Hey ... it is not my fault if you did not read my entire post.

 ::MonkeyHaHa::

Good Morning Monkeys.

Janet
10:35 AM PT

whats sad is I did read it!!!! lol
Thought you were saying your PAST vision came true.
Blonde moment!! you know me!! lol


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: ldstlou on December 04, 2008, 01:44:33 PM
Just in Dutch TVShow De Wereld Draait Door; parliamentarian Eelco Brinkman of the political party PVV: "I was tipped already that this obstruction of the investigation had happened. We send millions and millions of euro's to the antilles but still it is a bananarepublic.
The Islands must be totally independent of the NL's
Everything must come to the surface now.
I've send a letter to parliament and asked to get all things clear.
Maybe we even have to have an official 'parliamentary investigation'.
I will ask the government to sent the special police which investigates police conduct."

this is from today? WOW!!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: EURobert on December 04, 2008, 01:47:33 PM
Just in Dutch TVShow De Wereld Draait Door; parliamentarian Eelco Brinkman of the political party PVV: "I was tipped already that this obstruction of the investigation had happened. We send millions and millions of euro's to the antilles but still it is a bananarepublic.
The Islands must be totally independent of the NL's
Everything must come to the surface now.
I've send a letter to parliament and asked to get all things clear.
Maybe we even have to have an official 'parliamentary investigation'.
I will ask the government to sent the special police which investigates police conduct."

this is from today? WOW!!!

Yes. It was a little bit to fast to write it down in all the details but the bottomline of it was: I WANT TO GET TO THE BOTToM OF THIS.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: johan555 on December 04, 2008, 01:48:54 PM
Just in Dutch TVShow De Wereld Draait Door; parliamentarian Eelco Brinkman of the political party PVV: "I was tipped already that this obstruction of the investigation had happened. We send millions and millions of euro's to the antilles but still it is a bananarepublic.
The Islands must be totally independent of the NL's
Everything must come to the surface now.
I've send a letter to parliament and asked to get all things clear.
Maybe we even have to have an official 'parliamentary investigation'.
I will ask the government to sent the special police which investigates police conduct."

this is from today? WOW!!!

We pay Tax here for a corrupt  island  > ridiculous


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Dayhiker on December 04, 2008, 01:49:24 PM
Bank and pool meeting on Monday...Thought the pool meeting was in the evening, but it isn't documented in the statements....Ah....because Joran wasn't home...

I thought so. Bank and a payoff!!! Right from the get-go before Beth even touched down. And we kept asking why the police would not come take a report from the chaperone!!! Now we know!! Van der sloot was already on it!!!


Let's also not forget Paulus was only a brisk few footseps away from his pal Charles Croes' Digicel offices when he went to the bank. Twice.

Dayhiker...LOL...I have been trying to track this down for a couple of hours now....

CC's Fast Phones at the airport and a new mall, may have closed now?

Digicel?

SETAR owns Telearuba and is owned by a company with the government as shareholders...

So who is next door to the bank? Who owns SETAR...site down as is Telearuba...for me anyways!...Any more info would be appreciated?


Caps ... do you know which phone office is next door to the bank that Paulus visited, please.

Thanks In Advance as Always.


Pardon me for not getting back to you quickly Mum, had some work to do. There was a photo posted here, maybe by the frog, that showed the phone company and bank right next to each other. If someone can find that it should help us clear this up.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Blue Moon on December 04, 2008, 01:49:49 PM
"Dat Kan Ik Mijn Vriend Paul Niet Aandoen" = "I can not let this happening to my Friend Paules"

This was the exact qoute of Jan van Straten.

As I said, the End of the Higher-ups is almost done.

Like chiks in a basked, all are seeking cover, the heat is on.

When Van Straten Attaced Rudy Croes by accusing Rudy by saying that the  Warda Nos Costa is Political Managed, Rudy Croes attacked back by exposing Van Straten.

Van Straten Made so Many Accusation that now between the Holland and Aruba and specialy Curacao on the base of the common Court of Law, for St. Maarten and the BES Islands.

Rudy want his own court to be establsih in Aruba. The Flexteam that Jan Van Straten use in the 10 day's of Natalee desapearance, are not Investigators. But Rudy was aware of that and did permit it to continue.....LOL

Rudy and his Lordship did know everyday what was going on... the Gamble they took was the wrong one.

I know all the people in the Flexteam and now all the chikens are seeking cover...LOL.

Open question that still Rudy want to have answer on: ---> Like he does not know...LOL

Why is that Jan Van Straten wanted to Incriminate 2 color person to deviate attention from Joran?
Why was all that fuss about Joran being interviewed on Camera.? Joran Knew he was being recorded.
Why so many previlages to Joran?
Why was Joran Interogated in Holand and not in Aruba.?
Why Was Joran not Interogated in Papiament here in Aruba.?
Why was Jan Van Straten tried to Incriminate a Drug Addict.?

and so the WAR of the LORDS has started....

the on that help still have to taked....the one that did the clean-up B.W. Team.

....patient the wheel is spinned and how fast it spin depends on the spinner.

CAPSLOCKWIZARD.




 

Thanks Caps.  Time for ALL the truth to be told. No holds barred.  Prolonging it will only make it worse for Aruba and it's people.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: blah on December 04, 2008, 01:50:18 PM
Oh, puh-leeze!  Who was NOT saying it was van der Straten right from the start?  I can only think of one Aruban poster who went bananas every time she was asked anything about him.

Even Geraldo was on to vd Straten.   ::MonkeyRoll::

Paulus only actually went to the bank once on Monday.  The other time he said he did was to cover his absence from work, not that anybody was watcing him.

By the time of the pool meeting after school, it was already a done deal and no body, no case an assured thing.  MO


Ditto.........hi Anna.


Great to see you, Adoronron!  And my pal Blah! 

Even in The Netherlands, there are problems with corruption in the form of light sentencing, etc. so this is not unique to Aruba in total.

 :wink:


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Frank on December 04, 2008, 01:50:45 PM
eurobert,

Where did you see this?

Just in Dutch TVShow De Wereld Draait Door; parliamentarian Eelco Brinkman of the political party PVV: "I was tipped already that this obstruction of the investigation had happened. We send millions and millions of euro's to the antilles but still it is a bananarepublic.
The Islands must be totally independent of the NL's
Everything must come to the surface now.
I've send a letter to parliament and asked to get all things clear.
Maybe we even have to have an official 'parliamentary investigation'.
I will ask the government to sent the special police which investigates police conduct."


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Tamikosmom on December 04, 2008, 01:50:45 PM
Aruba has won!

Three and one half years later .... a sacrificial lamb has been selected to take the fall for compromising the entire Natalee Holloway investigation.

However ... those involved in the events encompassing the fateful morning of May 30, 2005 and ... the others in the Dutch/Aruban administration who were involved in the coverup to protect Joran van der Sloot and Paulus van der Sloot will never be held accountable.  Justice for Natalee Holloway will never prevail.

I am sooo angry.

Janet


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: littletxlady on December 04, 2008, 01:51:17 PM
http://www.hartvannederland.nl/item/16313/Politie_hielp_Van_der_Sloot

Police helped Van der Sloot
 New, revealing details in the Natalee Holloway case. De Arubaanse minister van Justitie eist een diepgravend onderzoek naar de rol van ex-politiecommissaris Jan van der Straaten en Paul van der Sloot, de vader van Joran. The Aruban Minister of Justice demands a far-reaching investigation into the role of ex-police commissioner Jan van der Straaten and Paul van der Sloot, the father of Joran.


De hoge politiebaas heeft volgens de minister het onderzoek naar de verdwijning van Natalee Holloway ernstig gehinderd. The senior police boss, according to the minister the investigation into the disappearance of Natalee Holloway seriously hampered. Hij deed dit om zijn vriend Paul van der Sloot te helpen bij het beschermen van Joran. He did this to his friend Paul van der Sloot to help protect Joran



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: bastibro on December 04, 2008, 01:51:37 PM
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/8430777

Karin Janssen:  The father has spoken with those three suspects, and he said he gave them some legal advice--but I think the advices were going further than that-- They spoke about the situation that when there is no body, you don’t have a case, and that was already in the first day after the disappearance. The father and the mother have asked a friend of Joran’s, the suspect, the minor suspect, to come to their home to tell them what he has explained to the police. And that is--well, I can say--was an obstruction of the investigation.

. . and that was already a few days after the disappearance . . is what she said.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Dayhiker on December 04, 2008, 01:52:01 PM
Just in Dutch TVShow De Wereld Draait Door; parliamentarian Eelco Brinkman of the political party PVV: "I was tipped already that this obstruction of the investigation had happened. We send millions and millions of euro's to the antilles but still it is a bananarepublic.
The Islands must be totally independent of the NL's
Everything must come to the surface now.
I've send a letter to parliament and asked to get all things clear.
Maybe we even have to have an official 'parliamentary investigation'.
I will ask the government to sent the special police which investigates police conduct."


Thanks Robert.  ::MonkeyDance::  I hope the parliament gets off their duffs and does something!




Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: ldstlou on December 04, 2008, 01:52:15 PM
Just in Dutch TVShow De Wereld Draait Door; parliamentarian Eelco Brinkman of the political party PVV: "I was tipped already that this obstruction of the investigation had happened. We send millions and millions of euro's to the antilles but still it is a bananarepublic.
The Islands must be totally independent of the NL's
Everything must come to the surface now.
I've send a letter to parliament and asked to get all things clear.
Maybe we even have to have an official 'parliamentary investigation'.
I will ask the government to sent the special police which investigates police conduct."

this is from today? WOW!!!

Yes. It was a little bit to fast to write it down in all the details but the bottomline of it was: I WANT TO GET TO THE BOTToM OF THIS.

WOW!!! This could be HUGE!!!!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: ldstlou on December 04, 2008, 01:52:53 PM
Just in Dutch TVShow De Wereld Draait Door; parliamentarian Eelco Brinkman of the political party PVV: "I was tipped already that this obstruction of the investigation had happened. We send millions and millions of euro's to the antilles but still it is a bananarepublic.
The Islands must be totally independent of the NL's
Everything must come to the surface now.
I've send a letter to parliament and asked to get all things clear.
Maybe we even have to have an official 'parliamentary investigation'.
I will ask the government to sent the special police which investigates police conduct."


Thanks Robert.  ::MonkeyDance::  I hope the parliament gets off their duffs and does something!




Yes, thanks so much Robert!! I am starting to get excited!!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Keepthefaith on December 04, 2008, 01:53:16 PM
Aruba has won!

Three and one half years later .... a sacrificial lamb has been selected to take the fall for compromising the entire Natalee Holloway investigation.

However ... those involved in the events encompassing the fateful morning of May 30, 2005 and ... the others in the Dutch/Aruban administration who were involved in the coverup to protect Joran van der Sloot and Paulus van der Sloot will never be held accountable.  Justice for Natalee Holloway will never prevail.

I am sooo angry.

Janet

Janet.Do you think one person is gonna really shoulder all the blame??Rats are just that!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: MumInOhio on December 04, 2008, 01:53:45 PM
Bank and pool meeting on Monday...Thought the pool meeting was in the evening, but it isn't documented in the statements....Ah....because Joran wasn't home...

I thought so. Bank and a payoff!!! Right from the get-go before Beth even touched down. And we kept asking why the police would not come take a report from the chaperone!!! Now we know!! Van der sloot was already on it!!!


Let's also not forget Paulus was only a brisk few footseps away from his pal Charles Croes' Digicel offices when he went to the bank. Twice.

Dayhiker...LOL...I have been trying to track this down for a couple of hours now....

CC's Fast Phones at the airport and a new mall, may have closed now?

Digicel?

SETAR owns Telearuba and is owned by a company with the government as shareholders...

So who is next door to the bank? Who owns SETAR...site down as is Telearuba...for me anyways!...Any more info would be appreciated?


Caps ... do you know which phone office is next door to the bank that Paulus visited, please.

Thanks In Advance as Always.


Pardon me for not getting back to you quickly Mum, had some work to do. There was a photo posted here, maybe by the frog, that showed the phone company and bank right next to each other. If someone can find that it should help us clear this up.


No Problem Dayhiker...Kermit's pic was what I was thinking of...



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Dayhiker on December 04, 2008, 01:56:23 PM
Just in Dutch TVShow De Wereld Draait Door; parliamentarian Eelco Brinkman of the political party PVV: "I was tipped already that this obstruction of the investigation had happened. We send millions and millions of euro's to the antilles but still it is a bananarepublic.
The Islands must be totally independent of the NL's
Everything must come to the surface now.
I've send a letter to parliament and asked to get all things clear.
Maybe we even have to have an official 'parliamentary investigation'.
I will ask the government to sent the special police which investigates police conduct."

this is from today? WOW!!!

We pay Tax here for a corrupt  island  > ridiculous


Not only that Johan, Holland sends the creeps over there to run the joint, and they all seem to get corrupted in no time flat. The Dutch tax payers need to get their money's worth out of all those millions of dollars they send to Aruba.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: EURobert on December 04, 2008, 01:56:52 PM
eurobert,

Where did you see this?

Just in Dutch TVShow De Wereld Draait Door; parliamentarian Eelco Brinkman of the political party PVV: "I was tipped already that this obstruction of the investigation had happened. We send millions and millions of euro's to the antilles but still it is a bananarepublic.
The Islands must be totally independent of the NL's
Everything must come to the surface now.
I've send a letter to parliament and asked to get all things clear.
Maybe we even have to have an official 'parliamentary investigation'.
I will ask the government to sent the special police which investigates police conduct."

It was just in VARA's TVShow "De Wereld Draait Door".

BTW: I couldn't remember the name of this 'special police' first but I remember it now: they are the "Rijks Recherche"; they only investigate the conduct of the police. For example: corruption, violence towards suspects, racism, and so on.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Blue Moon on December 04, 2008, 01:56:59 PM
Just in Dutch TVShow De Wereld Draait Door; parliamentarian Eelco Brinkman of the political party PVV: "I was tipped already that this obstruction of the investigation had happened. We send millions and millions of euro's to the antilles but still it is a bananarepublic.
The Islands must be totally independent of the NL's
Everything must come to the surface now.
I've send a letter to parliament and asked to get all things clear.
Maybe we even have to have an official 'parliamentary investigation'.
I will ask the government to sent the special police which investigates police conduct."

Thanks EU.  I would say Greta did her job well if this is bringing about all these results.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Kermit on December 04, 2008, 01:57:52 PM
ADDING:

CAPS ALSO CLAIMS THIS POND CONTAINS A TENNIS SHOE AND HUMAN REMAINS

SPECIAL NOTE - ACCORDING TO DAVE HOLLOWAY, CAPS WITNESS HAS MET WITH JOHN SILVETTI OF THE PERSISTENCE BY NOW


CAPS posted: February 27, 2008

This time they have some special areas that they are checking. It started this morning and continue in the morning.

CAPS postedFebruary 28, 2008:

Yes,

At 9:00 will go over there to amke sure they do not mis a spot....The sneaker is there....where is the sneaker is the remains.




CAPS STARTS OUT SAYING IT WAS MONTANA POND

January 22, 2008:

 Well it says clearley the montana pond.

After this Joran at this time desided to despose of the body in Montana body of water.

 

January 27, 2008:

 

but the real body was dumped in a body of water in noord that has not been search

The MUI was a diversion for something else.

 

The day the search was in noord and the body of water that was search by the police was not to retrieve a body, bud to retrieve something else

The drop has happend but is not the body natalee drop.

 

February 1, 2008:

In my report I choose the White one but my road is not paved

The Montana Park Apartment is where all started..The Sex etc....

so look for the owners

CAPS BEGINS PLANTING THE SEED OF NEEDING A WITNESS

JaLALA:

The Must Be 2 witness for a conviction... but then they will play the "Not reliable Witness" for one of the witness.

The father can not testified against the son. The mother will Lie. July the reporter got his papers, etc

If no Second Withness, and Not A body, He will Walk

BETWEEN FEB 1 AND FEB 5, CAPS YAMMERS ON AND ON ABOUT NEEDING A WITNESS.  ALSO YAMMERS ON AND ON ABOUT HOW THEY NEVER PUT HER IN THE OCEAN.  ALSO ASKING KLAAS RELENTLESSLY IF SHE'S HEARD BACK FROM DAVE YET - ABOUT HIS EMAIL TO DAVE IN DECEMBER

 

NOW INTRODUCES THE WHITEHOUSE - WHICH IS NEAR MOKO POND

February 5, 2008

 

They mus have gone to this planned rave party at the Whitehouse. where she was raped and died.

 

THEN VOILA!  A WITNESS APPEARS TO CAPS.  THE ANSWER TO HIS CONSTANT REMINDER TO MONKEYS THAT WE NEED ONE.  NOTE THE WITNESS FIRST CLAIMS A TIME OF 3:44 AM


February 8, 2008

 

I know,

a Midnight aowl (SHOCO) saw him from his veranda at 3:44 passing in fornt of his house....All in muddy from the wate down....

Have new google earth.

 

CAPS FINALLY HEARS BACK FROM DAVE - AND AT THIS POINT, HE IS STILL DISCUSSING BOTH MOKO AND MONTANA - NO MENTION AT THIS POINT OF MONSERAT POND
February 16, 2008

Klaasend:

Did got Email from the man, He know nows and Understand.

 
ON THIS SAME DATE - CAPS NOW CLAIMS THIS WITNESS WAS MOVING AROUND, ENOUGH TO KNOW SECURITY WAS PATROLLING AND CAMERAS ROLLING

The witness state that the Bird was constantly moving in circle around the area that night..

and the bird normaly will wake you up and one will tent to go look up in the sky of what is going on. and wonder.

some take pictures. If picture was taken, the Man in the bird with his power beam will see you taken pictures. and can zoom in to see who you are.

CAPS TELLS US HIS UNCLE IS AN ATTORNEY

Yes the government has his own set of lawyers and only work for the Government.

The Lawyers also represents a group that work hand in hand with the OM.


I was wondering which lawyer was on the Roll that night to handel the cases.

On the Roll means (schedule) How I know this is that my uncle is a Lawyer and He always talk abaout to have Roll duty.

It means that he is on the evening list to handel cases comming in that night. it can also be a sub prosecuter.

 

NOW THE TIME THE WITNESS CLAIMS HAS CHANGED.  WHY WAS THIS DONE?  DID THEY REALIZE THE FIRST TIME STATED DIDN'T WORK WITH THE KNOWN TIMELINE?

February 23, 2008

CAPS say: 4:05 AM Joran passing in front of a witness house dirty and missing the Right shoe
 

NOW ENTER THE PERSISTENCE SEARCH OF THE POND.  BUT WAIT, IT'S NEITHER OF THE PONDS CAPS HAS PREVIOUSLY CLAIMED - THEY SEARCH THE MONSERRAT POND

CAPS ALSO CLAIMS THIS POND CONTAINS A TENNIS SHOE AND HUMAN REMAINS

SPECIAL NOTE - ACCORDING TO DAVE HOLLOWAY, CAPS WITNESS HAS MET WITH JOHN SILVETTI OF THE PERSISTENCE BY NOW[/b]

February 27, 2008

 

This time they have some special areas that they are checking. It started this morning and continue in the morning.

February 28, 2008:

 

Yes,

At 9:00 will go over there to amke sure they do not mis a spot....The sneaker is there....where is the sneaker is the remains.

 

http://www.bondia.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=858&Itemid=1

Grupo di barco Mericano “Persistance” ta busca den dam na Montserat
Thursday, 28 February 2008

ORANJESTAD - Grupo di e barco Mericano “Persistance” ayera a dicidi di drenta dam na Montserat pa asina wak si nan por haya algo. Nan a pone un sonar ultra sofistica cu a base di un software ta lagabo wak tur cos cu tin tanto den e awa cu den e lodo den  un forma tridimencional. Aunke cu e dam ta sumamente seco toch a logra haci un trabou amplio pa asina wak si por encontra algo di Nathalie Holloway. Despues di analisa tur e graphiconan cu nan a logra compila den e dam lo bai wak si ta yega na algo of no.

 

Quote from: oceanexploration on February 28, 2008, 03:34:45 PM


This is two of our crew out surveying the pond yesterday (27-Feb).  They are using a SonaVision scanning sonar. The sonar scans 360 degrees out to a user select range.  In this case we used between 50-100ft range.  By placing multiple "drops" approximately 75-100 ft apart you can quickly and efficiently scan an entire pond.
I must have a good laught at this one. The boat they are in is TINY and Tony is a big guy.

 

DESTINY ASKING THE MONKEYS IF SHE SHOULD SEND FISH TRAP PHOTOS POSTED BY ROBIN H TO ARUBAN COPS - CAPS TELLING HER NO WAY, SEVERAL TIMES - EVEN WARNS DESTINY TO BE FEARFUL FOR HERSELF IF SHE DOES

February 28, 2008:

You are right LALA, they have a room full of intell person sitting and listeting and watching..I know this for a fact.

I say do not make a move.

Want to play it safe...tell them that your computer got a Virus...had to be reformatted.  everything is lost.

We live in a digital world where loosing a bit is not much but for safegaurd one self..

The new MOSvirus.irc just eat your hard disk and you are foregiven.

Lay low for a couple of days and back on track

CAPS

 

Do not sent anything...

I know that for a fact that if they know who you are they will fabricate any thing to put you away....I know that for a fact...so be carfull....

 BTW, they have all information them self....They are the one that is playing in the band.

now they have lost a band string and they want to compare....

Shango would say DO NOT TSURT....bad move....you will not win if you show your playing cards.

 

CAPS REVEALS HE HAS A BROTHER WORKING WITH EITHER LAW ENFORCEMENT OR THE PROSECUTOR'S OFFICE

 

Klaasend:

watch the news of tomorrow on what the comments are today from Hans MOS...He is pisst on the search in Monserat. My bother was telling me that MOS want to know all the detail and how they came about to that area.

...Hmmmmm..

I was not there to listen to the news today...but MOS is upset....

 

CAPS VISITS THE POND HIMSELF

February 28, 2008:

 

 

Well I did not know till I check where the pipes are leading to.

I will have picture of the pipes tomorrow.

to get in the pipes, one must put on a coverall becuase you will get dirty and it is very dark and a long walk. to the other end.

I need big light to check these pipes.

when the pond fills up, all the debry stay in the pond only the water will move to the other end in another waterbasin. I never know about this but my dad has clearyfy it. The rain water will move to another water basin. anything large and havy will stay in the pipe since the water flow is not strong. The flow only start when the pond fills-up.

Will check it but it has a horrable stenge.

I will take some picture to compare.

THE DAY CAPS VISITS THE POND, CAPS NOW STATES THERE COULD BE HUMAN REMAINS IN MONSERAT POND, AND ALSO HUMAN REMAINS IN MOKO POND - WHICH TIES IN WITH HIS EARLIER ASSERTIONS OF THE WHITEHOUSE APARTMENTS.

KEEP REMEMBERING THAT THIS WITNESS OF CAPS HAS BY NOW MET WITH JOHN SILVETTI


February 29, 2008

The problem with Moko pool is that if they dump the body in there, this acctiion leave Joran walking home. and not to the McDonnald.

Now lets assume that what is said that the head was not part of the body no more, and that both places has been used.

The Moko Pool which is right at the doorstep of the Whitehouse Apartment and there they could have dumb a peace of the body then drive Joran to the Monserat Pool and split leaving Joran alone.

Driving to the Monserat they will dump an other peace of the body.
Split and leave Joran behind.
The Monserat pool will leave him walking to McDonald.

This will give both Simian and Shango Validity for their writtings.

BRB..
CAPS

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Feb 26CAPS posted: Reply #2727 on: February 26, 2008, 09:29:40 AM
The pond in question (MOKO) is right out near the Whitehouse Apartment.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1952.2720


CAPS posted: Reply #2729 on: February 26, 2008, 10:36:09 AM
Look for Noord and look for Moko.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1952.2720

Find Aruba. Look for Noord. Look for Montaña. Look for Moko
CAPS posted:  Reply #7 on: April 15, 2008, 09:24:02 AM »
they where located in Moko and where in the massages bussines
now lets look at the addess to the Dutch Apartmnts

if we find this complex we have the murder place
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2787.0

CAPS posted:
one is called the Whitehouse or MOKO 30
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2787.0



[/quote]


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Blonde on December 04, 2008, 01:58:13 PM
The Public Ministry (Aruban prosecutor's office) affirmed that Ben King, head of the support division of the Attorney General, was present at the house of the Van der Sloot family when it was being searched Thursday last week.

Spokesperson Marianne Croes, of the prosecutor's office: “King was and is on holiday. He was indeed not present on behalf of the PM (during the search of the van der Sloot estate)” The spokesperson doesn’t want to comment on the various observations that find it strange that a member of the PM was present at the house of the suspects family while the search took place.

Sources within the PM affirm however that the PM as a whole is not happy at all with the actions of Ben King, because this may raise doubts with regard to the impartiality of the ministry.

King himself says that he and his family have been good friends with the Van der Sloots for some years now. Paul van der Sloot also worked for the PM in the past. King: “A few years ago, when I was working at KIA (local prison), I was maltreated by a prisoner and went through a rough period during which the Van der Sloot family provided us with fantastic support. We want to do the same for them now. But I realize naturally that I cannot stand at both sides on the line.”

And because of this King took some time off from his job to be able to support his friends. King: “It is a small island where conclusions are drawn very fast.” Both Public Ministry and I realize that we have to remain cool-headed. At the same time I have my rights as private-citizen and I want to support my friends in this difficult period.” Ben King was formerly named Vocking, he changed his name a few months ago and his name is now officially King. Exclamatio


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: johan555 on December 04, 2008, 01:59:15 PM
Vd straten helped him !
But with what ? To destroy all the evidence ? Casino tapes - witness statements etc
With the body ?
There were also documents lost /stolen !
Were was vd straten's house in aruba ? caps ?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Kermit on December 04, 2008, 02:00:18 PM
Aruban Justice Minister Rudy Croes confirms Police Chief Jan van der Straten has intentionally messed up the investigation in the first days to protect his friend Paul van der Sloot.

- arrested Joran and Kalpoe bros. only after 10 days
- Rudy Croes heard Jan van der Straten say: "I can't do this to my friend".
- a lot of phone communication between Jan and Paul
- a 2nd grade investigation team was used. "the team the used for carnaval" - meaning petty crimes.
- Rudy Croes wants a fresh investigation
- Paul and Jan helped each other 'as Dutch friends'.

further:

- he criticizes the Dutch gov. for not giving moral support to Aruba while Aruba's name gets besmudged internationally.
- Dutch gov. wanted Aruba to hide as much as possible that Joran was Dutch.
- Joran had to appear as an Aruba - a Dutch minister personally requested this. (Rudy Croes won't give the minster's name). > reminds me of the Most Wanted program, the actor playing Joran was dark skinned.

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/2714185/___Politie_hielp_Paul_van_der_Sloot___.html

COINCIDENCE OR NOT?
PICTURES EXPOSING THE ARUBANS COVER-UP JAN. 7 TH EVIDENCE
NOW THEY SAY IT ALL JAN VAN DER STRATTEN!

I bet money he talks.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Keepthefaith on December 04, 2008, 02:00:27 PM
Hello Kermit!How does the situation with the cage,as well as this new news correlate together??Head is spinning as you can imagine i'm sure!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Tamikosmom on December 04, 2008, 02:00:37 PM
Think about Aruba's strategy.  It can be considered nothing short of perfection.

Now that the Aruban Prime Minister had conceded that the investigation was compromised ... when the Natalee Holloway case is closed Aruba does not have to fear opening the case files to the FBI at the request of the family.

Janet

++++++


Growing Frustration in Aruba
Wednesday, July 06, 2005


GEORGE "JUG" TWITTY: Well, the way the system works down here, when the case is closed, we will have all that information, and we can release it to the world.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,161705,00.html


DANA PRETZER
July 2, 2006 - Part 1
July 8, 2006 - Part 2


ART WOOD: The family of Natalee needs to put pressure on the US attorney in Birmingham to push the FBI to conduct an investigation after ALE close the case. We have a treaty that allows the FBI to pursue a violation of civil rights of an American citizen there.


'Rita Cosby Live & Direct' for December 1
updated 7:37 a.m. PT, Fri., Dec. 2, 2005

 
ART WOOD, FORMER SECRET SERVICE AGENT: Absolutely. Absolutely. There's a lot that Americans can do through the State Department. I want to remind everybody that Natalee Holloway was a U.S. citizen. Once the Aruban authorities are done investigating this case, the FBI can still conduct an investigation, and they could extradite these suspects to the United States. Let me point out that there's a ton of circumstantial evidence in this case to convict these kids.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10295536/


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: MumInOhio on December 04, 2008, 02:01:31 PM
Hi Kermit...do you have the bank/phone company photo, please?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: EURobert on December 04, 2008, 02:03:18 PM
Just in Dutch TVShow De Wereld Draait Door; parliamentarian Eelco Brinkman of the political party PVV: "I was tipped already that this obstruction of the investigation had happened. We send millions and millions of euro's to the antilles but still it is a bananarepublic.
The Islands must be totally independent of the NL's
Everything must come to the surface now.
I've send a letter to parliament and asked to get all things clear.
Maybe we even have to have an official 'parliamentary investigation'.
I will ask the government to sent the special police which investigates police conduct."


Thanks Robert.  ::MonkeyDance::  I hope the parliament gets off their duffs and does something!




Yes, thanks so much Robert!! I am starting to get excited!!!

Don't thank me! Thank Hero! (Good name btw!) http://tinyurl.com/625aam

(I got his name wrong in the transcript; it's not Eelco Brinkman but Hero Brinkman. Eelco Brinkman is a former minister. Sorry.)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: blah on December 04, 2008, 02:03:36 PM
http://www.hartvannederland.nl/item/16313/Politie_hielp_Van_der_Sloot

Police helped Van der Sloot
 New, revealing details in the Natalee Holloway case. De Arubaanse minister van Justitie eist een diepgravend onderzoek naar de rol van ex-politiecommissaris Jan van der Straaten en Paul van der Sloot, de vader van Joran. The Aruban Minister of Justice demands a far-reaching investigation into the role of ex-police commissioner Jan van der Straaten and Paul van der Sloot, the father of Joran.


De hoge politiebaas heeft volgens de minister het onderzoek naar de verdwijning van Natalee Holloway ernstig gehinderd. The senior police boss, according to the minister the investigation into the disappearance of Natalee Holloway seriously hampered. Hij deed dit om zijn vriend Paul van der Sloot te helpen bij het beschermen van Joran. He did this to his friend Paul van der Sloot to help protect Joran



If this is for real, they would/should/better invite the FBI to help out in the investigation.  Otherwise, it will never be trusted.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Kermit on December 04, 2008, 02:05:35 PM
Hotshot
 Reply #258 on: November 21, 2008, 10:53:44 PM »
CAPS knows Silvetti from meI was the one who told CAPS to go to the ship and wait for John.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4159.240

Hotshot
Reply #298 on: November 27, 2008, 11:57:50 AM »
 the persistance did tape who and what took all the baggies.  
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.280


 Kyle said: I have not given anything to the FBI since the pictures and statements from Dec 29th



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: caesu on December 04, 2008, 02:05:39 PM
Just in Dutch TVShow De Wereld Draait Door; parliamentarian Eelco Hero Brinkman of the political party PVV: "I was tipped already that this obstruction of the investigation had happened. We send millions and millions of euro's to the antilles but still it is a bananarepublic.
The Islands must be totally independent of the NL's
Everything must come to the surface now.
I've send a letter to parliament and asked to get all things clear.
Maybe we even have to have an official 'parliamentary investigation'.
I will ask the government to sent the special police which investigates police conduct."

good! i was about about to send him e-mail.
but he is already on to this.
if Rudy Croes doesn't backtrack (saying he was misquoted) this has to lead to a political clash between Aruba and The Hague.
i hope Peter R. de Vries weighs in too, because he will have more effect than Hero Brinkman.

Rudy Croes did accuse a Dutch minister of racism. that's probably either Remkes or Donner.
Donner is still minister right now.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Keepthefaith on December 04, 2008, 02:07:42 PM
Hotshot
 Reply #258 on: November 21, 2008, 10:53:44 PM »
CAPS knows Silvetti from meI was the one who told CAPS to go to the ship and wait for John.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4159.240

Hotshot
Reply #298 on: November 27, 2008, 11:57:50 AM »
 the persistance did tape who and what took all the baggies.  
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.280


 Kyle said: I have not given anything to the FBI since the pictures and statements from Dec 29th



Will it come to light who and what took all the baggies Kermit!When i say who.Specifically names???


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: caesu on December 04, 2008, 02:16:20 PM
i bet Oduber and Croes are fighting right now.
Oduber might want to fire Croes. but Hendrik and Rudy represent the Betico Croes legacy.
and they both have been involved in the shady Aruban justice department for over 20 years.

i hope this Rudy Croes revelation doesn't blow over.
but gains more traction the coming days in the media.
but there is so much other political news going on right now in The Hague.
and everybody got sick of hearing about Joran and his daddy.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: yapperz1 on December 04, 2008, 02:19:08 PM
For whomever wanted to know about the meeting at the pool: It was Mickey John who told Greta http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,161044,00.html
<snip>
He said a story being made up about dropping the girl of at a Holiday Inn, was all something being made up. He, and the Dutch guy, and the Dutch guy's father, they sit and made up the story.

VAN SUSTEREN: The father, too?

JOHN: All of them. They made up...

VAN SUSTEREN: Did he specifically say — Deepak specifically say to you the father was part of that?

JOHN: Deepak told me that he and the family sit down and they made up the story.

VAN SUSTEREN: So family and not father?

JOHN: Well, I don't know who the family consists of. But I know the father was involved, according to him. They made up the story, and they say that they didn't drop the girl off, because they said they would give the police something to (INAUDIBLE) when somebody is missing in Aruba, they would find them a few days later by a crack house or with some beach bum or something.

So they made it up. But then, when push come to shove, and nothing was going on, he decided to tell his brother, "We're going to tell the truth and say exactly what took place," because he — I guess that much, he, by that time, he and the Dutch guy were saying different stories, so something wasn't going right.

VAN SUSTEREN: Did they say why they created the lie?

JOHN: Like I told you, they say like — they were hoping that something the girl would pop up or something, a few days after. And as I said, they drop her off at the Holiday Inn talking to a black guy, security guard dressed in black clothes. Said they know, like, everybody in public knows a tourist has been missing. They would find them a few days later, by, like I said, by some crack house or with some beach bum. So they made up something hoping that she would show up a few day and then they say, "OK, it all good. There she comes."

VAN SUSTEREN: But under the now story, which is that they dropped the Dutch teen and Natalee off at the beach, Deepak and Satish hadn't done anything wrong. So why did they need a cover story?

JOHN: Well, I don't know. I think these people, they have a plot together. He, as you can see (INAUDIBLE) so they, together with the Dutch guy, decide, "Maybe we can plan something," because they were together — they left the nightclub together. They were together.

The wouldn't say what happened with the girl, if he had fought with the girl. But they said they weren't — he told me they went to the California lighthouse. On their way back, they dropped the Dutch guy with Natalee close to the Marriott Hotel. He and his brother, Deepak, they went home.

VAN SUSTEREN: How certain are you that that your memory is correct that the family or the father was involved in creating this cover-up story?

JOHN: Well, he told me — he, all of them, sit and make up the story. He, Dutch guy, and the family. He told me they made up a story that they said they dropped the girl off at the Holiday Inn. She was talking to a black guy, security guard specific, dressed in black pants, black top.

VAN SUSTEREN: So what percentage certain are you that he said family or father that was involved in this?

JOHN: He said family.

VAN SUSTEREN: So you're certain?

JOHN: I'm certain.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Tamikosmom on December 04, 2008, 02:19:37 PM
Aruba has won!

Three and one half years later .... a sacrificial lamb has been selected to take the fall for compromising the entire Natalee Holloway investigation.

However ... those involved in the events encompassing the fateful morning of May 30, 2005 and ... the others in the Dutch/Aruban administration who were involved in the coverup to protect Joran van der Sloot and Paulus van der Sloot will never be held accountable.  Justice for Natalee Holloway will never prevail.

I am sooo angry.

Janet

Janet.Do you think one person is gonna really shoulder all the blame??Rats are just that!

I just know that justice for Natalee Holloway implies that accountability reaches from those involved in the events encompassing the fateful morning of May 30, 2005 to ... those within the Dutch/Aruban administrations who were participants in the coverup  ... to the judiciary in regards to the favorable rulings on behalf of the suspects ... to those involved in Aruba's underground economy ... drugs, sex trade, gambling and money laundering.

Keepthefaith ... in the Natalee Holloway case ... it is all connected.  Justice cannot prevail.

Aruba just wants this all to go away and ... conceding that a just investigation into the disappearance of an American citizen did not happen and ... it was the fault of one of their own ... is a way out.

IMO

Well ... life outsie the computer room beckons.

Have a good day Monkeys.

Later, Janet
11:20 AM PT30, 2005 but ...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: johan555 on December 04, 2008, 02:25:31 PM
amigoe

(http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh25/johan555/case.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: MumInOhio on December 04, 2008, 02:28:02 PM
For whomever wanted to know about the meeting at the pool: It was Mickey John who told Greta http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,161044,00.html
<snip>
He said a story being made up about dropping the girl of at a Holiday Inn, was all something being made up. He, and the Dutch guy, and the Dutch guy's father, they sit and made up the story.

VAN SUSTEREN: The father, too?

JOHN: All of them. They made up...

VAN SUSTEREN: Did he specifically say — Deepak specifically say to you the father was part of that?

JOHN: Deepak told me that he and the family sit down and they made up the story.

VAN SUSTEREN: So family and not father?

JOHN: Well, I don't know who the family consists of. But I know the father was involved, according to him. They made up the story, and they say that they didn't drop the girl off, because they said they would give the police something to (INAUDIBLE) when somebody is missing in Aruba, they would find them a few days later by a crack house or with some beach bum or something.

So they made it up. But then, when push come to shove, and nothing was going on, he decided to tell his brother, "We're going to tell the truth and say exactly what took place," because he — I guess that much, he, by that time, he and the Dutch guy were saying different stories, so something wasn't going right.

VAN SUSTEREN: Did they say why they created the lie?

JOHN: Like I told you, they say like — they were hoping that something the girl would pop up or something, a few days after. And as I said, they drop her off at the Holiday Inn talking to a black guy, security guard dressed in black clothes. Said they know, like, everybody in public knows a tourist has been missing. They would find them a few days later, by, like I said, by some crack house or with some beach bum. So they made up something hoping that she would show up a few day and then they say, "OK, it all good. There she comes."

VAN SUSTEREN: But under the now story, which is that they dropped the Dutch teen and Natalee off at the beach, Deepak and Satish hadn't done anything wrong. So why did they need a cover story?

JOHN: Well, I don't know. I think these people, they have a plot together. He, as you can see (INAUDIBLE) so they, together with the Dutch guy, decide, "Maybe we can plan something," because they were together — they left the nightclub together. They were together.

The wouldn't say what happened with the girl, if he had fought with the girl. But they said they weren't — he told me they went to the California lighthouse. On their way back, they dropped the Dutch guy with Natalee close to the Marriott Hotel. He and his brother, Deepak, they went home.

VAN SUSTEREN: How certain are you that that your memory is correct that the family or the father was involved in creating this cover-up story?

JOHN: Well, he told me — he, all of them, sit and make up the story. He, Dutch guy, and the family. He told me they made up a story that they said they dropped the girl off at the Holiday Inn. She was talking to a black guy, security guard specific, dressed in black pants, black top.

VAN SUSTEREN: So what percentage certain are you that he said family or father that was involved in this?

JOHN: He said family.

VAN SUSTEREN: So you're certain?

JOHN: I'm certain.




Thanks Yapperz...So Jansen probably got it from MJ.

Would like to be absolutely sure on the day. Kalpoes were at the Sloot's almost every night until their arrest. Well according to Joran's book and the statements.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Tamikosmom on December 04, 2008, 02:28:52 PM
http://www.hartvannederland.nl/item/16313/Politie_hielp_Van_der_Sloot

Police helped Van der Sloot
 New, revealing details in the Natalee Holloway case. De Arubaanse minister van Justitie eist een diepgravend onderzoek naar de rol van ex-politiecommissaris Jan van der Straaten en Paul van der Sloot, de vader van Joran. The Aruban Minister of Justice demands a far-reaching investigation into the role of ex-police commissioner Jan van der Straaten and Paul van der Sloot, the father of Joran.


De hoge politiebaas heeft volgens de minister het onderzoek naar de verdwijning van Natalee Holloway ernstig gehinderd. The senior police boss, according to the minister the investigation into the disappearance of Natalee Holloway seriously hampered. Hij deed dit om zijn vriend Paul van der Sloot te helpen bij het beschermen van Joran. He did this to his friend Paul van der Sloot to help protect Joran




Rudy Croes exact plans implied to Natalee Holloway's mother in August, 2005 and ... it never happened.

 ::MonkeyNoNo::

If the Prime Minister failed over three years ago to expose Jan van der Straaten and Paulus van der Sloot for their involvement in the obstruction of justice ... it ain't gonna happen now.

IMO.

Janet

________

Posted 8/22/2005 11:36 AM     Updated 8/22/2005 11:59 AM
Aruba leader acknowledges early mistakes in probe


ORANJESTAD, Aruba (AP) — Aruba's prime minister believes that authorities made mistakes at the start of the investigation of the Natalee Holloway case, a government spokesman said Monday.

Beth Holloway Twitty, who has often criticized authorities on the Dutch Caribbean island since her daughter disappeared on May 30, met in private with Prime Minister Nelson Oduber over the weekend.

"I think that he's in absolute agreement that the initial investigation has been so badly botched," Holloway Twitty said on NBC's "Today" show.

She said the prime minister also told her that Aruba needs to review the first stages of the investigation to find out "who let this go wrong."  

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2005-08-22-aruba_x.htm


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Keepthefaith on December 04, 2008, 02:32:53 PM
Still trying to understand the Fake Diploma,as well as when the Check-mate would occur Caps???? ::MonkeyConfused::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: bastibro on December 04, 2008, 02:33:29 PM
Hart van Nederland

http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=2tcHXUYXnDo


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Kermit on December 04, 2008, 02:33:52 PM
Hi Kermit...do you have the bank/phone company photo, please?

This one?
(http://triton.imageshack.us/Himg70/scaled.php?server=70&filename=digicelpx2.jpg&xsize=578&ysize=480)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on December 04, 2008, 02:36:52 PM
Hi Kermit...do you have the bank/phone company photo, please?

This one?
(http://triton.imageshack.us/Himg70/scaled.php?server=70&filename=digicelpx2.jpg&xsize=578&ysize=480)


 ::MonkeyHaHa::  I was just going to look for it....not sure if you forgot to add pic or were teasing. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Kermit on December 04, 2008, 02:38:23 PM
Hi Kermit...do you have the bank/phone company photo, please?

This one?
(http://triton.imageshack.us/Himg70/scaled.php?server=70&filename=digicelpx2.jpg&xsize=578&ysize=480)


* Arlene Ellis-Schipper is a board of directors for CMB bank http://www.cmbnv.com/directors.php
* Paulus van der Sloot went to the CMB bank twice the day after Natalee was kidnapped by his son
* Lincoln Gomez and Nilo Swean are financial guys on the boards of these banks

 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: MumInOhio on December 04, 2008, 02:39:01 PM
Hi Kermit...do you have the bank/phone company photo, please?

This one?
(http://triton.imageshack.us/Himg70/scaled.php?server=70&filename=digicelpx2.jpg&xsize=578&ysize=480)



Thanks...That is next to the bank right?

Digicel...Joran, Sander, Santos and kbm so far that I found said they had SETAR?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Keepthefaith on December 04, 2008, 02:42:36 PM
Hi Kermit...do you have the bank/phone company photo, please?

This one?
(http://triton.imageshack.us/Himg70/scaled.php?server=70&filename=digicelpx2.jpg&xsize=578&ysize=480)


* Arlene Ellis-Schipper is a board of directors for CMB bank http://www.cmbnv.com/directors.php
* Paulus van der Sloot went to the CMB bank twice the day after Natalee was kidnapped by his son
* Lincoln Gomez and Nilo Swean are financial guys on the boards of these banks

 


How do Gomez and Swean enter into this??Are they friends with Paulus??


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Frank on December 04, 2008, 02:43:45 PM
Can someone confirm that Paulus went to the bank twice? Is that a fact or rumor?

It's important given that Joran talked about bribing 2 police officers.

Neither of which was van der straaten.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Anna on December 04, 2008, 02:46:00 PM
Eric Zaandam, President of the Police Union
Our authorities contributed to the attitude of Beth Twitty against Aruba
A.M. Digital
11/10/2005

In voicing their opinion on the Beth Twitty case as Police Union, union president Eric Zaandam finds that Aruba has treated Beth Twitty too good to now be the victim of a call for boycott. It was obvious since the moment that she came with a letter requesting the destitution of the investigating team. For SPA (Police Union) this letter is uncalled for and an offense for the Public Prosecutor and the Police Force.

So far we have been quiet. Because we are aware of the general interest we did not react from the beginning when we concluded that this lady is not serious, certainly when she constantly changes her own version on the case of the disappearance of her daughter.

Beth Twitty had a preferential treatment in Aruba because she was getting all information on the progress of the case. This, according to Zaandam, caused Beth Twitty and her group to think that they can do anything in Aruba. She even went that far to ask FBI to take over the investigation and not to let our own police do the job.

Beth Twitty is an insolent person, interfering with the Public Prosecutor and demanding to impose her wish. This is a lesson for all of us, according to Zaandam. On the other hand our own people, such as the Minister of Justice Rudy Croes, have created the opportunity for Beth Twitty and her group to interfere and make demands in a letter. It was the very Rudy Croes who asked to remove Head Attorney Karen Janssen and Jan van der Straten from the case. We can all remember the day when he (Croes) returned from Brazil and introduced Commissioner Gerold Dompig as the new person in charge of the investigation.

And now because the Government informed that they cannot interfere with the Public Prosecutor where the official are appointed by the Kingdom Government, Beth Twitty and her family now think that our Government does not have any power and that Holland has all say in Aruba. And now the family wants to go to Holland.

According to Zaandam, this situation will not stop until Natalee Holloway is found, dead or alive.

[English language original text]


// posted by Getagrip @ 11/10/2005 11:17:00 AM   
 
http://getagripmonkey.blogspot.com/2005_11_06_getagripmonkey_archive.html


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: klaasend on December 04, 2008, 02:49:55 PM
Can someone confirm that Paulus went to the bank twice? Is that a fact or rumor?

It's important given that Joran talked about bribing 2 police officers.

Neither of which was van der straaten.

Fact.  He said the first time he went the line was too long so he went back later in the day.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: klaasend on December 04, 2008, 02:52:25 PM
Can someone confirm that Paulus went to the bank twice? Is that a fact or rumor?

It's important given that Joran talked about bribing 2 police officers.

Neither of which was van der straaten.

Fact.  He said the first time he went the line was too long so he went back later in the day.

From PVDS 6/23/05 statement:

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=459.0

(snipped)

To your question if I tell you all the things I did on that
Monday the 30th of May 2005, I can state the following. I went to work.
The exact time I cannot remember but I think it was approximately
08.00 hours. I can also remember that around 10.00 hours I went
to the C.M.B. bank. There were long cues at the bank so I left without
having made any transaction and went back to work. I left my workplace
at approximately 15.00 hours. I arrived at the bank at approximately 15.30.
 I had gone to the C.M.B. bank that is situated in Noord.


   To your question whether I went to the bank without stopping
or going anywhere else, I can state the following. I at least cannot
 remember having been anywhere else. I think I went directly to the bank.
At the bank I talked to Ruth DIJKHOFF. At the bank I deposited the
money that Joran said that he had won in the “Free Tournament in
the Holiday Inn” on the 29th of May 2005. It was approximately
500 Aruban guilders. Joran had given me 100 guilders because he
had taken over my place in the tournament.


After depositing the money I went home. I cannot exactly remember
what time it was when I got home. I think it was 16.15 hours. According
to me both Rita and Joran where at home. Whether Valentijn and Sebastian
where also there that Monday I cannot remember anymore because
Valentijn and Sebastian quite often went over to a friends house during
that time-period.
(snipped)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: MumInOhio on December 04, 2008, 02:57:29 PM
Can someone confirm that Paulus went to the bank twice? Is that a fact or rumor?

It's important given that Joran talked about bribing 2 police officers.

Neither of which was van der straaten.

Fact.  He said the first time he went the line was too long so he went back later in the day.

From PVDS 6/23/05 statement:

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=459.0

(snipped)

To your question if I tell you all the things I did on that
Monday the 30th of May 2005, I can state the following. I went to work.
The exact time I cannot remember but I think it was approximately
08.00 hours. I can also remember that around 10.00 hours I went
to the C.M.B. bank. There were long cues at the bank so I left without
having made any transaction and went back to work. I left my workplace
at approximately 15.00 hours. I arrived at the bank at approximately 15.30.
 I had gone to the C.M.B. bank that is situated in Noord.


   To your question whether I went to the bank without stopping
or going anywhere else, I can state the following. I at least cannot
 remember having been anywhere else. I think I went directly to the bank.
At the bank I talked to Ruth DIJKHOFF. At the bank I deposited the
money that Joran said that he had won in the “Free Tournament in
the Holiday Inn” on the 29th of May 2005. It was approximately
500 Aruban guilders. Joran had given me 100 guilders because he
had taken over my place in the tournament.


After depositing the money I went home. I cannot exactly remember
what time it was when I got home. I think it was 16.15 hours. According
to me both Rita and Joran where at home. Whether Valentijn and Sebastian
where also there that Monday I cannot remember anymore because
Valentijn and Sebastian quite often went over to a friends house during
that time-period.
(snipped)


Thanks klaas...Dr Phil requested Setar records.

Name/Title. Phone call Tap between loran van der Sloot and Paul van der Sloot
File No:
Date: 13 June 2005 / 13:30
Pages :2
Writer/ Initiator Setar (phone company)
Description: Phone call Tap between Joran and Paul van der Sloot
Source: Setar (phone company)
Lab nr: none
Location: Aruba


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Kat_Gram on December 04, 2008, 02:58:36 PM
Frank. it was in Paulus's police statments that he went to the bank. The source was Paulus for that info. He went the first time, it was busy. he went the second time and he mentioned a name, Ruth Di ???? off  as to who he saw at the bank. Later, Leslie ( an old SM poster ) found an obit for a Ruth, same name who passed in June of 2005. There was no obit in Aruba, but it was in Germany. His reason for going to the bank was to deposit Joran's poker winnings. ?? Except Joran had lost .
I believe that that was the Monday. I am going from memory here.   
I doubt if that was ever followed up on by Aruban LE.
.. Getting bank records in Aruba is more difficult than in the USA or Canada and unless they had a reason ( Paulus as a suspect in a payoff with charges ) they would not have the right. Also, because he was a Dutch citizen, he might have had accounts there.   


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Kat_Gram on December 04, 2008, 03:00:55 PM
Ms Klaasend, you are very quick !  Do you have all this stuff indexed ? Or just have a great memory ?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: truthseeker2 on December 04, 2008, 03:02:30 PM
Well, given Shango's discussion about 'Dirty Hand', looks like Van Der Straten did fit the bill.

This could get interesting over the next few days.  Finally someone is publically stating what the monkeys have known for a long time.

This 'investigative screw-up' was intentional.

Now, if they all knew Natalee had died accidentally would they have gone to this extreme to cover it up?  I don't think so.  If she did die then the evidence of it not being an accident had to be visible on her body.  If she was sold...well, I would imagine they would want to cover that up at any cost.

Just thinkin' and typin'.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: caesu on December 04, 2008, 03:02:34 PM
amigoe

(http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh25/johan555/case.jpg)

this Amigoe article is more detailed than the ANP / Telegraaf article.

additional info:

+ Rudy Croes will surely reveal the name of the Dutch minister if required.
+ the solution to the case lays with JvdS, PvdS and Jan van der Straten.
+ he wants a new investigation by a joint Aruba/Antilles/Dutch/American team.


+ Rudy Croes is going the retire next year - after the Aruban election i presume.

but i ask, why comes Rudy Croes only now with this, why not earlier?

http://www.amigoe.com/artman/publish/artikel_50116.php


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Frank on December 04, 2008, 03:06:11 PM
Janet,

Please don't get so down, we need you and we cannot give up, it's destiny.

Now is the time.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: truthseeker2 on December 04, 2008, 03:06:46 PM
Ms Klaasend, you are very quick !  Do you have all this stuff indexed ? Or just have a great memory ?

Only a 'zoo geeper' can do what Klaas does.  Try as we may...we cannot.  ::MonkeyCool::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Edward on December 04, 2008, 03:07:47 PM
Frank. it was in Paulus's police statments that he went to the bank. The source was Paulus for that info. He went the first time, it was busy. he went the second time and he mentioned a name, Ruth Di ???? off  as to who he saw at the bank. Later, Leslie ( an old SM poster ) found an obit for a Ruth, same name who passed in June of 2005. There was no obit in Aruba, but it was in Germany. His reason for going to the bank was to deposit Joran's poker winnings. ?? Except Joran had lost .
I believe that that was the Monday. I am going from memory here.   
I doubt if that was ever followed up on by Aruban LE.
.. Getting bank records in Aruba is more difficult than in the USA or Canada and unless they had a reason ( Paulus as a suspect in a payoff with charges ) they would not have the right. Also, because he was a Dutch citizen, he might have had accounts there.   

I never have seen the obituary in Germany ..
Only on the aruba web site obituary..

I do not think it was ever listed in Germany..
Do you have a link please


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Frank on December 04, 2008, 03:09:07 PM
caesu,

Rudy may want to have some control over his "legacy." If he retires, he won't and may be a scapegoat himself.

Or it could be payback to someone. We knew this web couldn't last and it may be collapsing. I for one, would be very happy if JVDS and van der straaten and PVDS are the only ones who take the fall.

The only scenario that would be unrewarding is to see only JVDS go down alone.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: klaasend on December 04, 2008, 03:09:16 PM
Ms Klaasend, you are very quick !  Do you have all this stuff indexed ? Or just have a great memory ?

Memory and know where to look   ::MonkeyWink::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Anna on December 04, 2008, 03:12:57 PM
Can someone confirm that Paulus went to the bank twice? Is that a fact or rumor?

It's important given that Joran talked about bribing 2 police officers.

Neither of which was van der straaten.


Well, Paulus says it so it MUST be true, right?

The fact that he builds into his story an alibi for why no transaction took place on one of the trips, the first, leads me to think this never actually happened.  He said the line was too long and yet the amount of time for him to drive back to his office then return back to the bank then drive back to work cause me to doubt that excuse.

Given all the other things attributed to Paulus doing that first day, just doesn't seem very logical this much time was devoted to driving back and forth to the bank.  He also claims to have been home by the time the kids got out of school, so guess one is free to think whatever they like in regard to his having spent the better part of his day driving back and forth to the bank.

JMO


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: johan555 on December 04, 2008, 03:15:59 PM
Can someone confirm that Paulus went to the bank twice? Is that a fact or rumor?

It's important given that Joran talked about bribing 2 police officers.

Neither of which was van der straaten.

Fact.  He said the first time he went the line was too long so he went back later in the day.

From PVDS 6/23/05 statement:

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=459.0

(snipped)

To your question if I tell you all the things I did on that
Monday the 30th of May 2005, I can state the following. I went to work.
The exact time I cannot remember but I think it was approximately
08.00 hours. I can also remember that around 10.00 hours I went
to the C.M.B. bank. There were long cues at the bank so I left without
having made any transaction and went back to work. I left my workplace
at approximately 15.00 hours. I arrived at the bank at approximately 15.30.
 I had gone to the C.M.B. bank that is situated in Noord.


   To your question whether I went to the bank without stopping
or going anywhere else, I can state the following. I at least cannot
 remember having been anywhere else. I think I went directly to the bank.
At the bank I talked to Ruth DIJKHOFF. At the bank I deposited the
money that Joran said that he had won in the “Free Tournament in
the Holiday Inn” on the 29th of May 2005. It was approximately
500 Aruban guilders. Joran had given me 100 guilders because he
had taken over my place in the tournament.


After depositing the money I went home. I cannot exactly remember
what time it was when I got home. I think it was 16.15 hours. According
to me both Rita and Joran where at home. Whether Valentijn and Sebastian
where also there that Monday I cannot remember anymore because
Valentijn and Sebastian quite often went over to a friends house during
that time-period.
(snipped)

What he said in his other statement about the bank was totally different!
i try to find it


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Kat_Gram on December 04, 2008, 03:18:25 PM
No, I don't have a link to her obit. Leslie ( she is the one who founf Guido Wever on a modelling site in Holland, she looked at pictures for hours to snag that one ) was working hard on that one. The burial / service was in Germany. I do remember looking for the German newpaper obits and death notices.  I don't think we ever got anywhere on that one. It was one of those things that never went anywhere. Language problems, etc. trying to find things from Europe aren't easy for us N Americans.  We ( well, I wasn't ) weren't even 100 % sure if it was the same lady that was at the bank that Paulus mentioned.   


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Anna on December 04, 2008, 03:20:24 PM
By Paulus own account, it is a thirty minute drive each way to the bank.

I simply don't believe he spent two hours of his day attempting to deposit Joran's non-existent winnings from the night before but it did make for a good explanation for why he was away from his desk for an additional hour on that day.


But as I said, if Paulus said it, it must be true.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Kat_Gram on December 04, 2008, 03:22:33 PM
Well, I never believed that the went to the bank twice that day either.
Somewhere near the bank and he threw the bank in to cover in case his vehicle was spotted. They all lied and there was no one to say differently.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on December 04, 2008, 03:23:05 PM
Frank. it was in Paulus's police statments that he went to the bank. The source was Paulus for that info. He went the first time, it was busy. he went the second time and he mentioned a name, Ruth Di ???? off  as to who he saw at the bank. Later, Leslie ( an old SM poster ) found an obit for a Ruth, same name who passed in June of 2005. There was no obit in Aruba, but it was in Germany. His reason for going to the bank was to deposit Joran's poker winnings. ?? Except Joran had lost .
I believe that that was the Monday. I am going from memory here.   
I doubt if that was ever followed up on by Aruban LE.
.. Getting bank records in Aruba is more difficult than in the USA or Canada and unless they had a reason ( Paulus as a suspect in a payoff with charges ) they would not have the right. Also, because he was a Dutch citizen, he might have had accounts there.   

I never have seen the obituary in Germany ..
Only on the aruba web site obituary..

I do not think it was ever listed in Germany..
Do you have a link please

I've only seen the one from Aruba that mentions the funeral was held in Germany. 

http://www.mementomori.net/05148.html

We've discussed this before, but if it is the same Ruth, and his statement was given 6/23/05, then he was mentioning speaking with her a week after her death. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: klaasend on December 04, 2008, 03:23:06 PM
Frank. it was in Paulus's police statments that he went to the bank. The source was Paulus for that info. He went the first time, it was busy. he went the second time and he mentioned a name, Ruth Di ???? off  as to who he saw at the bank. Later, Leslie ( an old SM poster ) found an obit for a Ruth, same name who passed in June of 2005. There was no obit in Aruba, but it was in Germany. His reason for going to the bank was to deposit Joran's poker winnings. ?? Except Joran had lost .
I believe that that was the Monday. I am going from memory here.   
I doubt if that was ever followed up on by Aruban LE.
.. Getting bank records in Aruba is more difficult than in the USA or Canada and unless they had a reason ( Paulus as a suspect in a payoff with charges ) they would not have the right. Also, because he was a Dutch citizen, he might have had accounts there.   

I never have seen the obituary in Germany ..
Only on the aruba web site obituary..

I do not think it was ever listed in Germany..
Do you have a link please

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub5/RuthDijkhoff.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Edward on December 04, 2008, 03:25:32 PM
The only site ever listed or found for Ruth D.
http://www.mementomori.net/05148.html
This is located in Aruba

If there is another please post it..


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: snoopy on December 04, 2008, 03:27:03 PM


Does anyone know where the ship called the Panther is moored?  Is it near the Valero Refinery?  TIA


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Anna on December 04, 2008, 03:28:41 PM
Ruth died on June 18.  Paulus said he spent most of the day on May 30 driving to and from the bank so it would have been before her death.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Kiwi on December 04, 2008, 03:29:26 PM
Since most banks have video cameras, its too bad no one thought to verify the times. I wonder how long they keep those records?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Edward on December 04, 2008, 03:29:27 PM
I never found anything in Germany about it..
June 18th was a key date in Aruba..
That is the only reason I am concerned about it..and paulus says he talks with her obviously alive and well.
Some days later she is dead and shipped out to Germany..But no record of it that I ever found, just a mention on an Aruban web site with No condolences from any friends or family..
Strange.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Anna on December 04, 2008, 03:33:39 PM
I never found anything in Germany about it..
June 18th was a key date in Aruba..
That is the only reason I am concerned about it..and paulus says he talks with her obviously alive and well.
Some days later she is dead and shipped out to Germany..But no record of it that I ever found, just a mention on an Aruban web site with No condolences from any friends or family..
Strange.



How do you know that she didn't die in Germany?  Perhaps she was there visiting her family or went there for health care.  Wouldn't condolences be sent to Germany?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Lala'sMom on December 04, 2008, 03:34:49 PM


 

Thanks, Caps.  Will Mos decide to keep the case open now or will he actually try to close it?
[/quote]

When a minister ( the Boss of Hans Mos ) said this, the only thing Mos can do is arrest Paul vd Sloot and
jan vd Straten and not tomorrow but today !!!
[/quote]


Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 9:51 pm
DirtyHand walks with the Babylons, the Arawaks and is consort to the fallen elder
The gods are talking



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Anna on December 04, 2008, 03:36:23 PM
Repeat of my previous post:

It was the very Rudy Croes who asked to remove Head Attorney Karen Janssen and Jan van der Straten from the case. We can all remember the day when he (Croes) returned from Brazil and introduced Commissioner Gerold Dompig as the new person in charge of the investigation.
-----snip--------


So this certainly is not the first time Rudy Croes has tried to throw Uncle Jan under the bus nor even Aunt Karin.

Nothing at all came of it before.  I therfore have to wonder if it will this time.  Tend to doubt it.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Lala'sMom on December 04, 2008, 03:40:04 PM
Over three three years following Rudy Croes words to the Beth Twitty regarding "who let this go wrong." ... he has figured it out.

GMAB

Janet

_______


Posted 8/22/2005  11:36 AM     Updated 8/22/2005 11:59 AM
Aruba leader acknowledges early mistakes in probe


ORANJESTAD, Aruba (AP) — Aruba's prime minister believes that authorities made mistakes at the start of the investigation of the Natalee Holloway case, a government spokesman said Monday.

Beth Holloway Twitty, who has often criticized authorities on the Dutch Caribbean island since her daughter disappeared on May 30, met in private with Prime Minister Nelson Oduber over the weekend.

"I think that he's in absolute agreement that the initial investigation has been so badly botched," Holloway Twitty said on NBC's "Today" show.

She said the prime minister also told her that Aruba needs to review the first stages of the investigation to find out "who let this go wrong."  
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2005-08-22-aruba_x.htm

 
Police head hindered Holloway investigation
Published: Thursday 04 December 2008 10:28 UTC
Last updated: Thursday 04 December 2008 10:35 UTC

 
The Aruban Minister of Justice, Rudy Croes, has told the ANP news agency that the investigation into the 2005 disappearance of Natalee Holloway was severely hindered in its initial stages by the island's Dutch police commissioner. Mr Croes said former commissioner Jan van de Straten did this to help his friend Paul van der Sloot, the father of the chief suspect in the US high school graduate's disappearance.

Mr Croes also said that Mr Van de Straten appeared to have made a conscious decision not to arrest Joran van der Sloot and two other suspects until ten days after Ms Holloway disappeared, even though the first few days are crucial in such an investigation. He went on to say that Mr Van de Straten and Mr Van der Sloot conducted lengthy telephone conversations after the disappearance and that the commissioner deployed a team of second-rank officers to investigate it.

Mr Croes added that a Dutch minister had asked the Aruban authorities to conceal as much as possible the fact that Joran van der Sloot was Dutch.

http://www.radionetherlands.nl/news/international/6079658/Claims-that-police-head-hindered-Holloway-investigation


Good finds Janet!! Is Beth FINALLY going to receive some vindication??!!

Interesting they are throwing Straaten under the bus.  This could back fire on those that still have much to hide.  I can't wait to see who eats whom in this mess.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on December 04, 2008, 03:42:41 PM
Ruth died on June 18.  Paulus said he spent most of the day on May 30 driving to and from the bank so it would have been before her death.

What I meant was that he mentioned seeing her on 5/30 in the statement of 6/23 (which was a week, give or take, after her death).  It's possible he threw the name in there, and since she was dead, no one could question whether what he had said was true....not that the bank visit was ever verified that we know of, either.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Blonde on December 04, 2008, 03:43:20 PM
Frank. it was in Paulus's police statments that he went to the bank. The source was Paulus for that info. He went the first time, it was busy. he went the second time and he mentioned a name, Ruth Di ???? off  as to who he saw at the bank. Later, Leslie ( an old SM poster ) found an obit for a Ruth, same name who passed in June of 2005. There was no obit in Aruba, but it was in Germany. His reason for going to the bank was to deposit Joran's poker winnings. ?? Except Joran had lost .
I believe that that was the Monday. I am going from memory here.   
I doubt if that was ever followed up on by Aruban LE.
.. Getting bank records in Aruba is more difficult than in the USA or Canada and unless they had a reason ( Paulus as a suspect in a payoff with charges ) they would not have the right. Also, because he was a Dutch citizen, he might have had accounts there.   

I never have seen the obituary in Germany ..
Only on the aruba web site obituary..

I do not think it was ever listed in Germany..
Do you have a link please
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/People%20of%20Intrest/RuthGiselaDijkhoff-Holtmann.jpg)

With deep sympathy we announce the death of:

Ruth Gisela Dijkhoff-Holtmann
17 May 1955 - 18 Jun 2005
 

 

Funeral took place in Germany

http://www.mementomori.net/05148.html


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Blonde on December 04, 2008, 03:46:12 PM
Gezz Klaas ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Pita on December 04, 2008, 03:46:29 PM
Ruth died on June 18.  Paulus said he spent most of the day on May 30 driving to and from the bank so it would have been before her death.

What I meant was that he mentioned seeing her on 5/30 in the statement of 6/23 (which was a week, give or take, after her death).  It's possible he threw the name in there, and since she was dead, no one could question whether what he had said was true....not that the bank visit was ever verified that we know of, either.

Yes, in other words, a dead witness is no witness.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Edward on December 04, 2008, 03:47:07 PM
The point is..
They could have shipped Natalee out in a sealed coffin along with this body.
Which is now buried in Germany..


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Lala'sMom on December 04, 2008, 03:47:11 PM
Can someone confirm that Paulus went to the bank twice? Is that a fact or rumor?

It's important given that Joran talked about bribing 2 police officers.

Neither of which was van der straaten.

I think Paulus testifies to this in one of his statements about visiting the back twice. 

To your question if I tell you all the things I did on that Monday the 30th of May 2005, I can state the following. I went to work.
The exact time I cannot remember but I think it was approximately 08.00 hours. I can also remember that around 10.00 hours I went to the C.M.B. bank. There were long cues at the bank so I left without having made any transaction and went back to work. I left my workplace at approximately 15.00 hours. I arrived at the bank at approximately 15.30. I had gone to the C.M.B. bank that is situated in Noord.

To your question whether I went to the bank without stopping or going anywhere else, I can state the following. I at least cannot
remember having been anywhere else. I think I went directly to the bank. At the bank I talked to Ruth DIJKHOFF. At the bank I deposited the money that Joran said that he had won in the “Free Tournament in the Holiday Inn” on the 29th of May 2005. It was approximately 500 Aruban guilders. Joran had given me 100 guilders because he had taken over my place in the
tournament.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Frank on December 04, 2008, 03:47:12 PM
Anna,

I may have agreed with you in the past, but things are a little different now. We have Joran broadcast all over the world twice since then.

Now, sex-trafficking/Aruba are on people's minds and as JQK has said, it may be impossible for Aruba to recover as long as this is still going on.

I wish one of these savages would step up and protect the NEXT victim. I mean who will take responsibility when Joran kills again?

We have a moral obligation to do what we can to ensure these savages don't harm anyone else again.

Not one of these adults including Tacopina finds it horrific enough to say for the good of others, that the "sick" joran needs to be put away. It's so depraved.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Lala'sMom on December 04, 2008, 03:47:53 PM
Ruth died on June 18.  Paulus said he spent most of the day on May 30 driving to and from the bank so it would have been before her death.

What I meant was that he mentioned seeing her on 5/30 in the statement of 6/23 (which was a week, give or take, after her death).  It's possible he threw the name in there, and since she was dead, no one could question whether what he had said was true....not that the bank visit was ever verified that we know of, either.

Yes, in other words, a dead witness is no witness.

There is another person that worked at that bank also...Simian.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Anna on December 04, 2008, 03:48:12 PM
Ruth died on June 18.  Paulus said he spent most of the day on May 30 driving to and from the bank so it would have been before her death.

What I meant was that he mentioned seeing her on 5/30 in the statement of 6/23 (which was a week, give or take, after her death).  It's possible he threw the name in there, and since she was dead, no one could question whether what he had said was true....not that the bank visit was ever verified that we know of, either.

Yes, that does sound like something Paulus would do.  He would need to verify she was working that day and then could use her name at will as she was not around to dispute it.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Edward on December 04, 2008, 03:49:36 PM
Blondie..
The web site you post for Ruth is a funeral home located on the fine isalnd of aruba.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Anna on December 04, 2008, 03:51:56 PM
Anna,

I may have agreed with you in the past, but things are a little different now. We have Joran broadcast all over the world twice since then.

Now, sex-trafficking/Aruba are on people's minds and as JQK has said, it may be impossible for Aruba to recover as long as this is still going on.

I wish one of these savages would step up and protect the NEXT victim. I mean who will take responsibility when Joran kills again?

We have a moral obligation to do what we can to ensure these savages don't harm anyone else again.

Not one of these adults including Tacopina finds it horrific enough to say for the good of others, that the "sick" joran needs to be put away. It's so depraved.



Not sure what part of that you think I disagree with Frank, but whatever.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Edward on December 04, 2008, 03:53:27 PM
(http://www.mementomori.net/images/06079.jpg)
http://www.mementomori.net/06079.html

Listed on the very same web site..
Did PitBull end up in Germany ?  ::MonkeyRoll::

Anyways..My point remains.. They could have shipped Natalee off the island in a coffin sealed. especially if there is no family at the other end to receive Ruth. The coffin would just be buried.. Her and Natalee together forever.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Edward on December 04, 2008, 03:54:38 PM
Have the coffin dug up and prove it is just Ruth in there.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: the big hammer on December 04, 2008, 03:56:27 PM
$275 = 500 Aruban Guilders

Paulus could not wait on line at CMB Bank -- there were long "queues".

For a $275 cash deposit, why not use Auotomated Teller Machine, which would accept cash and provide proper receipt, verifying deposit?  This is not, by any measure, a "large" transaction.  Some banks even have separate, express services, for those dropping off cash deposits -- no need to wait line where mixed deposits, withdrawals, business transactions await for teller service.

Yet, he left bank -- because of lines and waiting time -- and then returned later, to exexute transaction.

He returned to bank because it seems as though he needed a bank teller to assist in transaction.  Why?



.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Tamikosmom on December 04, 2008, 04:02:41 PM
Over three three years following Rudy Croes words to the Beth Twitty regarding "who let this go wrong." ... he has figured it out.

GMAB

Janet

_______


Posted 8/22/2005  11:36 AM     Updated 8/22/2005 11:59 AM
Aruba leader acknowledges early mistakes in probe


ORANJESTAD, Aruba (AP) — Aruba's prime minister believes that authorities made mistakes at the start of the investigation of the Natalee Holloway case, a government spokesman said Monday.

Beth Holloway Twitty, who has often criticized authorities on the Dutch Caribbean island since her daughter disappeared on May 30, met in private with Prime Minister Nelson Oduber over the weekend.

"I think that he's in absolute agreement that the initial investigation has been so badly botched," Holloway Twitty said on NBC's "Today" show.

She said the prime minister also told her that Aruba needs to review the first stages of the investigation to find out "who let this go wrong."  
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2005-08-22-aruba_x.htm

 
Police head hindered Holloway investigation
Published: Thursday 04 December 2008 10:28 UTC
Last updated: Thursday 04 December 2008 10:35 UTC

 
The Aruban Minister of Justice, Rudy Croes, has told the ANP news agency that the investigation into the 2005 disappearance of Natalee Holloway was severely hindered in its initial stages by the island's Dutch police commissioner. Mr Croes said former commissioner Jan van de Straten did this to help his friend Paul van der Sloot, the father of the chief suspect in the US high school graduate's disappearance.

Mr Croes also said that Mr Van de Straten appeared to have made a conscious decision not to arrest Joran van der Sloot and two other suspects until ten days after Ms Holloway disappeared, even though the first few days are crucial in such an investigation. He went on to say that Mr Van de Straten and Mr Van der Sloot conducted lengthy telephone conversations after the disappearance and that the commissioner deployed a team of second-rank officers to investigate it.

Mr Croes added that a Dutch minister had asked the Aruban authorities to conceal as much as possible the fact that Joran van der Sloot was Dutch.

http://www.radionetherlands.nl/news/international/6079658/Claims-that-police-head-hindered-Holloway-investigation


Good finds Janet!! Is Beth FINALLY going to receive some vindication??!!

Interesting they are throwing Straaten under the bus.  This could back fire on those that still have much to hide.  I can't wait to see who eats whom in this mess.


I contend that "throwing Jan van Straaten under the bus" is a well thought out Aruban plan to bring closure to the Natalee Holloway case and ... Jan van Straaten has been provided with either threats or incentives to cooperate.  In other words ... he has agreed to be the sacrificial lamb.  He has agreed to take the slap on the wrist as a consequence for obstructing the investigation.

Otherwise ... there would be a domino affect that would be very far reaching in regards to all who were involved in the happenings of the morning of May 30, 2005 ... all who where involved that led up to the happenings of the morning of May 30, 200t and ... all who are involved in the coverup in the Aruban investigation that has denied Natalee Holloway justice and ... put her family through a H--- on Earth for 3 1/2 years.

To make this case go away ... Rudy Croes may concede to a botched investigation caused by one of Aruba's own but ... he is not about to flush Aruba down the toilet.

IMO

Janet


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Keepthefaith on December 04, 2008, 04:04:30 PM
Over three three years following Rudy Croes words to the Beth Twitty regarding "who let this go wrong." ... he has figured it out.

GMAB

Janet

_______


Posted 8/22/2005  11:36 AM     Updated 8/22/2005 11:59 AM
Aruba leader acknowledges early mistakes in probe


ORANJESTAD, Aruba (AP) — Aruba's prime minister believes that authorities made mistakes at the start of the investigation of the Natalee Holloway case, a government spokesman said Monday.

Beth Holloway Twitty, who has often criticized authorities on the Dutch Caribbean island since her daughter disappeared on May 30, met in private with Prime Minister Nelson Oduber over the weekend.

"I think that he's in absolute agreement that the initial investigation has been so badly botched," Holloway Twitty said on NBC's "Today" show.

She said the prime minister also told her that Aruba needs to review the first stages of the investigation to find out "who let this go wrong."  
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2005-08-22-aruba_x.htm

 
Police head hindered Holloway investigation
Published: Thursday 04 December 2008 10:28 UTC
Last updated: Thursday 04 December 2008 10:35 UTC

 
The Aruban Minister of Justice, Rudy Croes, has told the ANP news agency that the investigation into the 2005 disappearance of Natalee Holloway was severely hindered in its initial stages by the island's Dutch police commissioner. Mr Croes said former commissioner Jan van de Straten did this to help his friend Paul van der Sloot, the father of the chief suspect in the US high school graduate's disappearance.

Mr Croes also said that Mr Van de Straten appeared to have made a conscious decision not to arrest Joran van der Sloot and two other suspects until ten days after Ms Holloway disappeared, even though the first few days are crucial in such an investigation. He went on to say that Mr Van de Straten and Mr Van der Sloot conducted lengthy telephone conversations after the disappearance and that the commissioner deployed a team of second-rank officers to investigate it.

Mr Croes added that a Dutch minister had asked the Aruban authorities to conceal as much as possible the fact that Joran van der Sloot was Dutch.

http://www.radionetherlands.nl/news/international/6079658/Claims-that-police-head-hindered-Holloway-investigation


Good finds Janet!! Is Beth FINALLY going to receive some vindication??!!

Interesting they are throwing Straaten under the bus.  This could back fire on those that still have much to hide.  I can't wait to see who eats whom in this mess.


I contend that "throwing Jan van Straaten under the bus" is a well thought out Aruban plan to bring closure to the Natalee Holloway case and ... Jan van Straaten has been provided with either threats or incentives to cooperate.  In other words ... he has agreed to be the sacrificial lamb.  He has agreed to take the slap on the wrist as a consequence for obstructing the investigation.

Otherwise ... there would be a domino affect that would be very far reaching in regards to all who were involved in the happenings of the morning of May 30, 2005 ... all who where involved that led up to the happenings of the morning of May 30, 200t and ... all who are involved in the coverup in the Aruban investigation that has denied Natalee Holloway justice and ... put her family through a H--- on Earth for 3 1/2 years.

To make this case go away ... Rudy Croes may concede to a botched investigation caused by one of Aruba's own but ... he is not about to flush Aruba down the toilet.

IMO

Janet

Hell hath no furry like a BUNCH of Monkey's scorned.... ::MonkeyDance::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Lala'sMom on December 04, 2008, 04:08:21 PM
$275 = 500 Aruban Guilders

Paulus could not wait on line at CMB Bank -- there were long "queues".

For a $275 cash deposit, why not use Auotomated Teller Machine, which would accept cash and provide proper receipt, verifying deposit?  This is not, by any measure, a "large" transaction.  Some banks even have separate, express services, for those dropping off cash deposits -- no need to wait line where mixed deposits, withdrawals, business transactions await for teller service.

Yet, he left bank -- because of lines and waiting time -- and then returned later, to exexute transaction.

He returned to bank because it seems as though he needed a bank teller to assist in transaction.  Why?



.

Maybe it was a huge money transaction.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Tamikosmom on December 04, 2008, 04:08:30 PM
Anna,

I may have agreed with you in the past, but things are a little different now. We have Joran broadcast all over the world twice since then.

Now, sex-trafficking/Aruba are on people's minds and as JQK has said, it may be impossible for Aruba to recover as long as this is still going on.

I wish one of these savages would step up and protect the NEXT victim. I mean who will take responsibility when Joran kills again?

We have a moral obligation to do what we can to ensure these savages don't harm anyone else again.

Not one of these adults including Tacopina finds it horrific enough to say for the good of others, that the "sick" joran needs to be put away. It's so depraved.


Frank ... Natalee Holloway's loving stepfather concurs.  It is just a matter of time before another "Natalee" become the victim of Joran van der Sloot.

Janet
______


NANCY GRACE
Remains of Young White Female Found in Reno Field; Natalee Holloway Case Update
Aired February 15, 2008 - 20:00:00   ET


JUG TWITTY, NATALEE HOLLOWAY`S STEPFATHER: Well, Holly, I`ll tell you, it`s very disappointing. But it doesn`t surprise me. I`ll tell you what really made me sick today to be honest with you is to see his U.S. attorney, Joe Tacopina, whoever, who has been kind of hiding for the last week because he didn`t know what was going to happen all of a sudden come on and he`s all over the TV now. And he is just saying, you know, with a smirk on his face, which just it makes me sick.

But, yes, hey I told you so, nothing was going to happen. When he knows Joran is a time bomb just waiting to -- you know, to blow up.  

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0802/15/ng.01.html



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: BUCKSHOT on December 04, 2008, 04:09:45 PM
I agree. Paulus has surely told a fib...

10:00 Leave work for CMB (bank). Half hour ride. Arrive at 10:30. Line is too long.
10:30 Leave bank. Half hour ride. Heading back to work? Arrive at 11:00.
3:00 Leave work for CMB (bank). Half hour ride. Arrive at 3:30. Make deposit.
3:30ish Leave bank. Head home to greet children from school.

Two hours of his day dedicated to depositing 500 florins (275 USD). Laughable.

Can anyone picture this conversation:
Paulus: Charles, I have a unique situation on my hands and need your help...
C Croes: What can I do to help? Just say the words...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: can on December 04, 2008, 04:09:51 PM
$275 = 500 Aruban Guilders

Paulus could not wait on line at CMB Bank -- there were long "queues".

For a $275 cash deposit, why not use Auotomated Teller Machine, which would accept cash and provide proper receipt, verifying deposit?  This is not, by any measure, a "large" transaction.  Some banks even have separate, express services, for those dropping off cash deposits -- no need to wait line where mixed deposits, withdrawals, business transactions await for teller service.

Yet, he left bank -- because of lines and waiting time -- and then returned later, to exexute transaction.

He returned to bank because it seems as though he needed a bank teller to assist in transaction.  Why?



.

I've always felt his bank tale was bogus.  Paulus went to a great bit of detail on his statement.
Was it to explain why he might have been seen in that area?  Or was it proactive to explain why he was out of the office on that day in case he was seen by a witness?   
Why would it be so important for a man to exert that much effort to deposit such a small sum of money?
 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: klaasend on December 04, 2008, 04:10:04 PM
$275 = 500 Aruban Guilders

Paulus could not wait on line at CMB Bank -- there were long "queues".

For a $275 cash deposit, why not use Auotomated Teller Machine, which would accept cash and provide proper receipt, verifying deposit?  This is not, by any measure, a "large" transaction.  Some banks even have separate, express services, for those dropping off cash deposits -- no need to wait line where mixed deposits, withdrawals, business transactions await for teller service.

Yet, he left bank -- because of lines and waiting time -- and then returned later, to exexute transaction.

He returned to bank because it seems as though he needed a bank teller to assist in transaction.  Why?



.

Exactly Hammer this never made sense to me.  Why make 2 trips to the bank to depost $275? The way Joran was spending money I'd think having cash around the house would be a necessity.  It's BS, the deposit was an excuse to either make another transaction or to speak to someone.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: BUCKSHOT on December 04, 2008, 04:13:41 PM
I still believe that a well scripted plan is attempting to be played out. It has taken countless hours by many to configure. It has been written over time, adjusted and tweaked along the way so as to serve its purpose. Close case, regain tourism dollars.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: can on December 04, 2008, 04:15:09 PM
Lala,
Did Simian see Pvds @ the bank that day, if you know?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Lala'sMom on December 04, 2008, 04:15:32 PM
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:18 pm
If the Alibi is broken by DirtyHand the walls of Babylon will shake


Why would Rudy know so much about Straaten?  Did he have knowledge of this also and is attempting to deflect attention away from him?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Tamikosmom on December 04, 2008, 04:17:15 PM
$275 = 500 Aruban Guilders

Paulus could not wait on line at CMB Bank -- there were long "queues".

For a $275 cash deposit, why not use Auotomated Teller Machine, which would accept cash and provide proper receipt, verifying deposit?  This is not, by any measure, a "large" transaction.  Some banks even have separate, express services, for those dropping off cash deposits -- no need to wait line where mixed deposits, withdrawals, business transactions await for teller service.

Yet, he left bank -- because of lines and waiting time -- and then returned later, to exexute transaction.

He returned to bank because it seems as though he needed a bank teller to assist in transaction.  Why?


... and the bank teller later dies.

Does any Monkey know what the "reported" cause of death was?

Thanks

Janet


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Lala'sMom on December 04, 2008, 04:18:26 PM
Lala,
Did Simian see Pvds @ the bank that day, if you know?


I have no idea...but he was working there at the time.  Given cops being paid, which I think are on a lower level than van der Straaten, it's a possibility.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: can on December 04, 2008, 04:19:34 PM
I don't think so Janet.  It's always been a dead end.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Keepthefaith on December 04, 2008, 04:20:13 PM
I still believe that a well scripted plan is attempting to be played out. It has taken countless hours by many to configure. It has been written over time, adjusted and tweaked along the way so as to serve its purpose. Close case, regain tourism dollars.

Unless those writing the script don't implicate those involved and what transpired i still think tourism will continue to be poor..JMOO.NO NATALEE.NO TOURISM!!!!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Tamikosmom on December 04, 2008, 04:23:24 PM
I still believe that a well scripted plan is attempting to be played out. It has taken countless hours by many to configure. It has been written over time, adjusted and tweaked along the way so as to serve its purpose. Close case, regain tourism dollars.


Exactly!!!




I contend that "throwing Jan van Straaten under the bus" is a well thought out Aruban plan to bring closure to the Natalee Holloway case and ... Jan van Straaten has been provided with either threats or incentives to cooperate.  In other words ... he has agreed to be the sacrificial lamb.  He has agreed to take the slap on the wrist as a consequence for obstructing the investigation.

Otherwise ... there would be a domino affect that would be very far reaching in regards to all who were involved in the happenings of the morning of May 30, 2005 ... all who where  involved in the events that led up to the happenings  of the morning of May 30, 200t and ... all who are involved in the coverup in the Aruban investigation that has denied Natalee Holloway justice and ... put her family through a H--- on Earth for 3 1/2 years.

To make this case go away ... Rudy Croes may concede to a botched investigation caused by one of Aruba's own but ... he is not about to flush Aruba down the toilet.

IMO

Janet


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Keepthefaith on December 04, 2008, 04:25:05 PM
I still believe that a well scripted plan is attempting to be played out. It has taken countless hours by many to configure. It has been written over time, adjusted and tweaked along the way so as to serve its purpose. Close case, regain tourism dollars.

Unless those writing the script implicate those involved and what transpired i still think tourism will continue to be poor..JMOO.NO NATALEE.NO TOURISM!!!!!

Last post was backwards.Sorry..


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Lala'sMom on December 04, 2008, 04:25:12 PM
If you were being paid to dispose of a body for Paulus....would you be working at the local bank or would you go to someone that has contact with the type of people needed to make the disposal happen OR would you know you needed a lot of cash to pay these people and must go to the  right person that would never ever tell anyone about the transaction?   It's a toss up as to what Paulus was doing at the bank that day...but I am almost certain it had nothing to do with that pittance of money and a deposit for Joran.

CC...could have been next door working.
Ruth...unverifiable source of reason Paulus was at bank.
Simian...is a monkey with an uncle and a cousin.

What?  :smt102


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Anna on December 04, 2008, 04:25:56 PM
December 4th, 2008 8:49 AM Eastern
Here is an idea: Contact the Dutch!
by Greta Van Susteren
Let’s find out if YOU on GretaWire have any influence…maybe we can persuade the Dutch to really investigate.


I don’t have the Dutch Embassy email address (if one of you can find it, post it here for everyone to email the Dutch)……but here is their phone number (toll free) in Washington, DC.   If you want to call the Dutch Embassy and tell them they should investigate the MISSING AMERICAN, do so.  They need to do something about Aruba which is part of the Kingdom of the Netherlands…maybe we can persuade them.  Please post here what response you get when you call.  By the way, I can’t help but notice that the phone number below is “DUTCH HELP” …

all that any of us should want is a fair and complete investigation…is that asking too much? Thousands of phone calls from you may inspire the Dutch to realize how important it is to to do a full and fair investigation…if they find corruption, they may thank you….I don’t know what happened, but I do know when investigations are sloppy at best…


1-877-DUTCHHELP (phone)
1-877-388-2443 (phone)
202-362-3430 (fax)

and below is another article:

Police head hindered Holloway investigation


Published: Thursday 04 December 2008 10:28 UTC
Last updated: Thursday 04 December 2008 10:35 UTC

The Aruban Minister of Justice, Rudy Croes, has told the ANP news agency that the investigation into the 2005 disappearance of Natalee Holloway was severely hindered in its initial stages by the island’s Dutch police commissioner. Mr Croes said former commissioner Jan van de Straten did this to help his friend Paul van der Sloot, the father of the chief suspect in the US high school graduate’s disappearance.

Mr Croes also said that Mr Van de Straten appeared to have made a conscious decision not to arrest Joran van der Sloot and two other suspects until ten days after Ms Holloway disappeared, even though the first few days are crucial in such an investigation. He went on to say that Mr Van de Straten and Mr Van der Sloot conducted lengthy telephone conversations after the disappearance and that the commissioner deployed a team of second-rank officers to investigate it.

Mr Croes added that a Dutch minister had asked the Aruban authorities to conceal as much as possible the fact that Joran van der Sloot was Dutch.

http://gretawire.foxnews.com/page/4/


In one of the comments a poster lists the email address but can't find it right now.




Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: truthseeker2 on December 04, 2008, 04:28:49 PM
Frank. it was in Paulus's police statments that he went to the bank. The source was Paulus for that info. He went the first time, it was busy. he went the second time and he mentioned a name, Ruth Di ???? off  as to who he saw at the bank. Later, Leslie ( an old SM poster ) found an obit for a Ruth, same name who passed in June of 2005. There was no obit in Aruba, but it was in Germany. His reason for going to the bank was to deposit Joran's poker winnings. ?? Except Joran had lost .
I believe that that was the Monday. I am going from memory here.   
I doubt if that was ever followed up on by Aruban LE.
.. Getting bank records in Aruba is more difficult than in the USA or Canada and unless they had a reason ( Paulus as a suspect in a payoff with charges ) they would not have the right. Also, because he was a Dutch citizen, he might have had accounts there.   

I never have seen the obituary in Germany ..
Only on the aruba web site obituary..

I do not think it was ever listed in Germany..
Do you have a link please

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub5/RuthDijkhoff.jpg)

So this lady died the day after Rene Heingyn (sp?).  He was the guy who had his throat slit open and was dumped in the cemetary near a police station.  Hmm.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Frank on December 04, 2008, 04:30:15 PM
How do they know it's a botched investigation?

Investigation into what? A disappearance or a murder?

I don't think they can just say van der straaten screwed up and expect anything to change?

But interesting that Steve Cohen said the police are not corrupt, just confused. Is he still spewing the Aruba line?

How to answer regarding the phone calls to Paulus, how about the guards? I don't see how van der straaten can take the fall without admitting that a dead Natalee was in Police custody?

I don't see this as a planned escape for Aruba at all, it's a reaction to pressure and Joran van der sloot.

Killing Joran would have been easier if they wanted to wash their hands of this.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Anna on December 04, 2008, 04:30:33 PM
I still believe that a well scripted plan is attempting to be played out. It has taken countless hours by many to configure. It has been written over time, adjusted and tweaked along the way so as to serve its purpose. Close case, regain tourism dollars.

Agree completely and they always tweak for a very good reason and to make the pieces fit seamlessly no matter how illogical it may seem.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Keepthefaith on December 04, 2008, 04:32:13 PM
All this for a 17 yr old BOY..How sickening..What can Aruba/Netherlands really do besides wiping out the whole GOVT and replacing it with a complete new one???


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Keepthefaith on December 04, 2008, 04:35:32 PM
All this for a 17 yr old BOY..How sickening..What can Aruba/Netherlands really do besides wiping out the whole GOVT and replacing it with a complete new one???

Caps!!!What occurs on Aruba that is so horrible that PVDS,Van Der stratten,Vocking,Janssen,Witt,Dompig,as well as others would TRY to save Joran's ASS.Whyyyyy??Is he not expendable??? ::MonkeyConfused::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Lala'sMom on December 04, 2008, 04:39:40 PM
All this for a 17 yr old BOY..How sickening..What can Aruba/Netherlands really do besides wiping out the whole GOVT and replacing it with a complete new one???

This was not done solely for Joran and his buddies...it's the bigger picture of who in the government and what those people do that is being covered up.  Joran is a small cog in the wheel...always has been but his simpleton father was the wiser one and has managed to pull all the right strings.  Knowing the secrets either gets you killed or promoted.  Think about the connections to gambling, drugs, smuggling and human trafficking we now know. It's all so clear now...too bad it's 3 years too late.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: can on December 04, 2008, 04:39:57 PM
Lala,
Did Simian see Pvds @ the bank that day, if you know?


I have no idea...but he was working there at the time.  Given cops being paid, which I think are on a lower level than van der Straaten, it's a possibility.
Thank you.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: CapsLockWizard on December 04, 2008, 04:40:45 PM
$275 = 500 Aruban Guilders

Paulus could not wait on line at CMB Bank -- there were long "queues".

For a $275 cash deposit, why not use Auotomated Teller Machine, which would accept cash and provide proper receipt, verifying deposit?  This is not, by any measure, a "large" transaction.  Some banks even have separate, express services, for those dropping off cash deposits -- no need to wait line where mixed deposits, withdrawals, business transactions await for teller service.

Yet, he left bank -- because of lines and waiting time -- and then returned later, to exexute transaction.

He returned to bank because it seems as though he needed a bank teller to assist in transaction.  Why?



.

Exactly Hammer this never made sense to me.  Why make 2 trips to the bank to depost $275? The way Joran was spending money I'd think having cash around the house would be a necessity.  It's BS, the deposit was an excuse to either make another transaction or to speak to someone.

He went there to fix the data on the ATM, but ruth refuse to cooporate ad was  removed.

the last thing he drank was coffee. then died of a mistery dead. Couse of dead never was performed.

John van der Kuip got exclusive info on the case and went to holland intellignet to speak on the case.

came back to Aruba

Last thing he drank was coffee and died not even 10 minutes later at home.

Couse of dead never was performed.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Anna on December 04, 2008, 04:41:03 PM
Greta Defends Her Coverage of this Interview with Joran Pretty well.  She states as I suspected that it certainly is not about ratings as this is not a hot story at this time with everything else that is happening in the world.  The election, econpmy, bailouts and terrorists along with more recent crimes would likely garner higher ratings.

Quote:

December 4th, 2008 10:27 AM Eastern

No apologies from me on this one! In fact, I say “thank you Fox News for backing us up!”
by Greta Van Susteren


I have received some (not a majority) emails and comments from viewers / bloggers who are critical of our persistence in the Natalee Holloway investigation.  You will receive no apology from me on this one.  In fact, I appreciate what MY network has done in supporting us…let’s review some facts and perhaps you will understand.

First, some background: here are the networks that covered Natalee Holloway disappearance in 2005:

ABC News

ABC shows (eg The View, 20/20)

NBC

MS/NBC

Fox News Channel

CNN

CNN International

CNN Headline News

CBS (and their entertainment shows.)

The story reaped big ratings for everyone at first…so all of the above stuck with it during that time.  But then the ratings slipped…and it got very expensive to pursue the story since it is international one and it is also disruptive to lives to have to keep traveling…and, most importantly, it just got hard to do.  Leads dried up.  It meant journalists had to really, really, really work — and be willing to have disappointment when leads went no where.  It also meant giving up weekends etc since we also had to move on to other stories in the news. Plus, we got a great deal of resistance from the Arubans and the Dutch.

So what happened?

All of the above networks except one — FOX NEWS CHANNEL - gave up.  Fox could have given up.  It sure is expensive and the times are lean for all in the media.  We could have spent the huge amount of money on some flashy full page ads about ourselves….we didn’t.   Fox has backed ON THE RECORD and I appreciate it.  This has  been very, very, very expensive.

The topic may not be so hot for viewers now but it remains important.  A missing American matters. If you had a family member missing, I hope we could help in some way.  Yes, there are other missing Americans and I wish I could work as much on those (maybe after we get answers with Natalee Holloway, I will!)

I am proud that Fox News Channel is not so easily swayed by cost, by ratings…but rather sees the importance of doing what we can. Sometimes doing the right thing is the right thing to do.  We have worked behind the scenes on this story since the beginning.  Weekends have been given up by many.  We have done other topics while scrambling to investigate this one.  We feel a loyalty to you the audience (I would think you would feel “had” if we simply dumped it after spending so much time on it) and more importantly, we feel we owe it to those who love Natalee.

I don’t know if we will ever find out what happened to Natalee Holloway on May 30, 2005…but at least we can say at Fox News Channel with great pride “we tried…we really tried.”

So what prompted this blog entry? Read below a GretaWire comment and a quick response from me:


http://gretawire.foxnews.com/page/3/


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: CapsLockWizard on December 04, 2008, 04:42:36 PM
$275 = 500 Aruban Guilders

Paulus could not wait on line at CMB Bank -- there were long "queues".

For a $275 cash deposit, why not use Auotomated Teller Machine, which would accept cash and provide proper receipt, verifying deposit?  This is not, by any measure, a "large" transaction.  Some banks even have separate, express services, for those dropping off cash deposits -- no need to wait line where mixed deposits, withdrawals, business transactions await for teller service.

Yet, he left bank -- because of lines and waiting time -- and then returned later, to exexute transaction.

He returned to bank because it seems as though he needed a bank teller to assist in transaction.  Why?



.

Exactly Hammer this never made sense to me.  Why make 2 trips to the bank to depost $275? The way Joran was spending money I'd think having cash around the house would be a necessity.  It's BS, the deposit was an excuse to either make another transaction or to speak to someone.

He went there to fix the data on the ATM, but ruth refuse to cooporate ad was  removed.

the last thing she drank was coffee. then died of a mistery dead. Couse of dead never was performed.

John van der Kuip got exclusive info on the case and went to holland intellignet to speak on the case.

came back to Aruba

Last thing he drank was coffee and died not even 10 minutes later at home.

Couse of dead never was performed.




Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Keepthefaith on December 04, 2008, 04:43:12 PM
All this for a 17 yr old BOY..How sickening..What can Aruba/Netherlands really do besides wiping out the whole GOVT and replacing it with a complete new one???

This was not done solely for Joran and his buddies...it's the bigger picture of who in the government and what those people do that is being covered up.  Joran is a small cog in the wheel...always has been but his simpleton father was the wiser one and has managed to pull all the right strings.  Knowing the secrets either gets you killed or promoted.  Think about the connections to gambling, drugs, smuggling and human trafficking we now know. It's all so clear now...too bad it's 3 years too late.

Paulus must know everything that transpires on that Island..Everybody in a position of power is corrupt or this would have been taken care of long ago.Just angry LaLa..   


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Kat_Gram on December 04, 2008, 04:44:16 PM
The point is..
They could have shipped Natalee out in a sealed coffin along with this body.
Which is now buried in Germany..
That is way too far fetched for me.
 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: can on December 04, 2008, 04:44:19 PM
If you were being paid to dispose of a body for Paulus....would you be working at the local bank or would you go to someone that has contact with the type of people needed to make the disposal happen OR would you know you needed a lot of cash to pay these people and must go to the  right person that would never ever tell anyone about the transaction?   It's a toss up as to what Paulus was doing at the bank that day...but I am almost certain it had nothing to do with that pittance of money and a deposit for Joran.

CC...could have been next door working.
Ruth...unverifiable source of reason Paulus was at bank.
Simian...is a monkey with an uncle and a cousin.

What?  :smt102

Wonder if Paulus made an entry into a deposit box and the small deposit was just his excuse to visit the bank.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Kat_Gram on December 04, 2008, 04:49:28 PM
Rudy is saying this. What is he going to do ? Oh, well, he can do nothing ... blah blah blah... .
CAPS I am making coffee. Will be back in eleven minutes. Perhaps.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Lala'sMom on December 04, 2008, 04:51:49 PM
If you were being paid to dispose of a body for Paulus....would you be working at the local bank or would you go to someone that has contact with the type of people needed to make the disposal happen OR would you know you needed a lot of cash to pay these people and must go to the  right person that would never ever tell anyone about the transaction?   It's a toss up as to what Paulus was doing at the bank that day...but I am almost certain it had nothing to do with that pittance of money and a deposit for Joran.

CC...could have been next door working.
Ruth...unverifiable source of reason Paulus was at bank.
Simian...is a monkey with an uncle and a cousin.

What?  :smt102

Wonder if Paulus made an entry into a deposit box and the small deposit was just his excuse to visit the bank.



Maybe he took money out?



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Dana on December 04, 2008, 04:54:41 PM
The point is..
They could have shipped Natalee out in a sealed coffin along with this body.
Which is now buried in Germany..
That is way too far fetched for me.
 

exactly ::MonkeyNoNo::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Helen Back on December 04, 2008, 04:55:47 PM
$275 = 500 Aruban Guilders

Paulus could not wait on line at CMB Bank -- there were long "queues".

For a $275 cash deposit, why not use Auotomated Teller Machine, which would accept cash and provide proper receipt, verifying deposit?  This is not, by any measure, a "large" transaction.  Some banks even have separate, express services, for those dropping off cash deposits -- no need to wait line where mixed deposits, withdrawals, business transactions await for teller service.

Yet, he left bank -- because of lines and waiting time -- and then returned later, to exexute transaction.

He returned to bank because it seems as though he needed a bank teller to assist in transaction.  Why?



.

Exactly Hammer this never made sense to me.  Why make 2 trips to the bank to depost $275? The way Joran was spending money I'd think having cash around the house would be a necessity.  It's BS, the deposit was an excuse to either make another transaction or to speak to someone.

He went there to fix the data on the ATM, but ruth refuse to cooporate ad was  removed.

the last thing she drank was coffee. then died of a mistery dead. Couse of dead never was performed.

John van der Kuip got exclusive info on the case and went to holland intellignet to speak on the case.

came back to Aruba

Last thing he drank was coffee and died not even 10 minutes later at home.

Couse of dead never was performed.



Hey CAPS,

Can you explain what you mean: He went there to fix the data on the ATM? 

Did not know about John van der Kuip.   ::MonkeyShocked::

Thank you for all the info.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: truthseeker2 on December 04, 2008, 04:56:26 PM
Lala,
Did Simian see Pvds @ the bank that day, if you know?


I have no idea...but he was working there at the time.  Given cops being paid, which I think are on a lower level than van der Straaten, it's a possibility.

Wasn't Simian's first post on 06/17/05..the day before Ruth died?  And what was that post about?  Sex trade.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Kat_Gram on December 04, 2008, 05:06:14 PM
I always thought that he went to the bank to take money out for a payoff. Deepak and Satish, perhaps Steve Croes. Didn't Paulus go to Miami afterwards? Official excuse was to do something about the St. Leo's school Joran was to attend. My thoughts were to get bigger money. Bigger payoff for a cop or two.
Rudy is high up enough in the food chain in Aruba to do something then and now. But, if it's all conjecture on his part with no hard evidence, what the heck is his point ? A finger pointing exercise ?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Dana on December 04, 2008, 05:07:57 PM
I always thought that he went to the bank to take money out for a payoff. Deepak and Satish, perhaps Steve Croes. Didn't Paulus go to Miami afterwards? Official excuse was to do something about the St. Leo's school Joran was to attend. My thoughts were to get bigger money. Bigger payoff for a cop or two.
Rudy is high up enough in the food chain in Aruba to do something then and now. But, if it's all conjecture on his part with no hard evidence, what the heck is his point ? A finger pointing exercise ?

finger pointing is all, thinks it may take some heat off him
rats usually turn on each other after being in the same cage too long


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Kat_Gram on December 04, 2008, 05:11:15 PM
O/T Dana, you and I and Janet should form a coilition to run the country.
It seems they all want to be in charge of doing nothing. We could do that just as well.
I voted for none of them as I felt they were all incapable. ( I did vote ) I was right.   


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: cubbeegirl on December 04, 2008, 05:12:38 PM
Simian Says: June 25th, 2005 at 8:21 pm
The Simian knows the Babylonians. They need to plan the legal checkmate perfectly. They know that the elder knows his way around the palace. All gates need to be shut.

The Hindus don’t know that the elder knows what happened. They thought they did the boy a favor by protecting him. The Hindus don’t know what happened.

The cowboys gave themselves 10 days. One down.


Paulus was in control from the beginning...paid the authorities.
Which proves my point -- he knew and did NOTHING.

Yes, he knew and did nothing except give hints on the internet.  He was an a**, a whimp, a chicken.  Nobody is saying he was a great guy.


I agree klaas....he knew and did nothing to help solve the puzzle of where is Natalee?......NOT very nice IMO


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: blah on December 04, 2008, 05:13:01 PM
Janet,

Please don't get so down, we need you and we cannot give up, it's destiny.

Now is the time.

Janet == A Human Natalee Holloway Case Encyclopedia  :smt045 :smt045 :smt045


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Anna on December 04, 2008, 05:13:57 PM
And whatever happened to the two women who claimed Rudy Croes himself was holding them as some sort of sex slaves?  Guess they were deported or something as per usual.

They all seem to hold each other in a Mexican standoff with no one clean enough to actually do anything about the other without exposing themselves to payback.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Dana on December 04, 2008, 05:19:16 PM
O/T Dana, you and I and Janet should form a coilition to run the country.
It seems they all want to be in charge of doing nothing. We could do that just as well.
I voted for none of them as I felt they were all incapable. ( I did vote ) I was right.   

yeah :-)
wasnt Dione's you tube video last night something else.  ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: blah on December 04, 2008, 05:23:43 PM
$275 = 500 Aruban Guilders

Paulus could not wait on line at CMB Bank -- there were long "queues".

For a $275 cash deposit, why not use Auotomated Teller Machine, which would accept cash and provide proper receipt, verifying deposit?  This is not, by any measure, a "large" transaction.  Some banks even have separate, express services, for those dropping off cash deposits -- no need to wait line where mixed deposits, withdrawals, business transactions await for teller service.

Yet, he left bank -- because of lines and waiting time -- and then returned later, to exexute transaction.

He returned to bank because it seems as though he needed a bank teller to assist in transaction.  Why?



.

Maybe not just "a teller" maybe he was looking for  "a particular teller" who he could trust to get some money from his money laundering account


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Edward on December 04, 2008, 05:28:56 PM
The point is..
They could have shipped Natalee out in a sealed coffin along with this body.
Which is now buried in Germany..
That is way too far fetched for me.
 

exactly ::MonkeyNoNo::

it is to easy.
it is to clean.

van stratten could control this. He had a need to dispose of..
who found Ruth ?..How did she die.. ?

you have no body..no evidence..
once a coffin is Sealed it is not opened again unless there is family requesting to view..

you guys are just looking for something complicated.. like shango.
Or people who post with strange names and leave you guessing.

Dig up the body and prove me wrong.

3.6 years later..You have nothing..

We all know or feel Paulus..Now van stratten is in the picture as accomplice.. This could be within his control..





Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Anna on December 04, 2008, 05:29:12 PM
Is Joran still in Thailand or has he made it  to Indonesia as rumored?

Thai airports reopening

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081203/ap_on_re_as/as_thailand_cleared_for_takeoff;_ylt=AvJTBWJiHbyCUR5S_ZExTE8Bxg8F


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Dana on December 04, 2008, 05:33:00 PM
Is Joran still in Thailand or has he made it  to Indonesia as rumored?

Thai airports reopening

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081203/ap_on_re_as/as_thailand_cleared_for_takeoff;_ylt=AvJTBWJiHbyCUR5S_ZExTE8Bxg8F
too bad the rebels down there never used Joran for fish bait, but then again in that country he would fit right in


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: CapsLockWizard on December 04, 2008, 05:33:31 PM
All this for a 17 yr old BOY..How sickening..What can Aruba/Netherlands really do besides wiping out the whole GOVT and replacing it with a complete new one???

Caps!!!What occurs on Aruba that is so horrible that PVDS,Van Der stratten,Vocking,Janssen,Witt,Dompig,as well as others would TRY to save Joran's ASS.Whyyyyy??Is he not expendable??? ::MonkeyConfused::


what he did will give him life in preson...in 2005, he did not wnated to loose one of his offspring, but turns out that his offspring is a rotten apple. Not even mention the whole legal system that will come tubling down...remeber the Dutch High Court is the final Court for most of us...

Who is going to believe in them to Judge your future...

they were protecting the system...at all couse...but I know for a fact that the system is not working.

to many victims of fals accusations and deprived from there libery at the get go of the investigation, mean while if it it one of there own that is part of the Legal Bussiness, they will go to extream to hide the truth.

in these cases, the Only person that is inchage of under 18 kid crimes and is Dutch is F. van D.
he is the behavior specialist. He can make you look not guilty even tho you are guilty or he can make you look a Saint meanwhile you are the devil in human form



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Keepthefaith on December 04, 2008, 05:37:50 PM
All this for a 17 yr old BOY..How sickening..What can Aruba/Netherlands really do besides wiping out the whole GOVT and replacing it with a complete new one???

Caps!!!What occurs on Aruba that is so horrible that PVDS,Van Der stratten,Vocking,Janssen,Witt,Dompig,as well as others would TRY to save Joran's ASS.Whyyyyy??Is he not expendable??? ::MonkeyConfused::


what he did will give him life in preson...in 2005, he did not wnated to loose one of his offspring, but turns out that his offspring is a rotten apple. Not even mention the whole legal system that will come tubling down...remeber the Dutch High Court is the final Court for most of us...

Who is going to believe in them to Judge your future...

they were protecting the system...at all couse...but I know for a fact that the system is not working.

to many victims of fals accusations and deprived from there libery at the get go of the investigation, mean while if it it one of there own that is part of the Legal Bussiness, they will go to extream to hide the truth.

in these cases, the Only person that is inchage of under 18 kid crimes and is Dutch is F. van D.
he is the behavior specialist. He can make you look not guilty even tho you are guilty or he can make you look a Saint meanwhile you are the devil in human form



I appreciate your comments!What will it truly take to hold those accountable for what occured to Natalee??TIA.Any opinions??


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Helen Back on December 04, 2008, 05:38:43 PM
I guess Rudy's effort to have the court, now in Curacao, moved to Aruba is down the drain ?
 ::MonkeyRoll::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Keepthefaith on December 04, 2008, 05:41:43 PM
All this for a 17 yr old BOY..How sickening..What can Aruba/Netherlands really do besides wiping out the whole GOVT and replacing it with a complete new one???

Caps!!!What occurs on Aruba that is so horrible that PVDS,Van Der stratten,Vocking,Janssen,Witt,Dompig,as well as others would TRY to save Joran's ASS.Whyyyyy??Is he not expendable??? ::MonkeyConfused::


what he did will give him life in preson...in 2005, he did not wnated to loose one of his offspring, but turns out that his offspring is a rotten apple. Not even mention the whole legal system that will come tubling down...remeber the Dutch High Court is the final Court for most of us...

Who is going to believe in them to Judge your future...

they were protecting the system...at all couse...but I know for a fact that the system is not working.

to many victims of fals accusations and deprived from there libery at the get go of the investigation, mean while if it it one of there own that is part of the Legal Bussiness, they will go to extream to hide the truth.

in these cases, the Only person that is inchage of under 18 kid crimes and is Dutch is F. van D.he is the behavior specialist. He can make you look not guilty even tho you are guilty or he can make you look a Saint meanwhile you are the devil in human form



Does anyone know who this is??Is he/she an intricate part of this cover-up??Just thoughts Caps...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: CapsLockWizard on December 04, 2008, 05:43:18 PM
All this for a 17 yr old BOY..How sickening..What can Aruba/Netherlands really do besides wiping out the whole GOVT and replacing it with a complete new one???

Caps!!!What occurs on Aruba that is so horrible that PVDS,Van Der stratten,Vocking,Janssen,Witt,Dompig,as well as others would TRY to save Joran's ASS.Whyyyyy??Is he not expendable??? ::MonkeyConfused::


what he did will give him life in preson...in 2005, he did not wnated to loose one of his offspring, but turns out that his offspring is a rotten apple. Not even mention the whole legal system that will come tubling down...remeber the Dutch High Court is the final Court for most of us...

Who is going to believe in them to Judge your future...

they were protecting the system...at all couse...but I know for a fact that the system is not working.

to many victims of fals accusations and deprived from there libery at the get go of the investigation, mean while if it it one of there own that is part of the Legal Bussiness, they will go to extream to hide the truth.

in these cases, the Only person that is inchage of under 18 kid crimes and is Dutch is F. van D.
he is the behavior specialist. He can make you look not guilty even tho you are guilty or he can make you look a Saint meanwhile you are the devil in human form



I appreciate your comments!What will it truly take to hold those accountable for what occured to Natalee??TIA.Any opinions??

well th check made is done and no way out...they got to prosecute. This will not be done by Hans Mos...If he love his Job and safe his skin, he got to prosecute otherwise Paters will step in and clean the mess


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Helen Back on December 04, 2008, 05:44:26 PM
All this for a 17 yr old BOY..How sickening..What can Aruba/Netherlands really do besides wiping out the whole GOVT and replacing it with a complete new one???

Caps!!!What occurs on Aruba that is so horrible that PVDS,Van Der stratten,Vocking,Janssen,Witt,Dompig,as well as others would TRY to save Joran's ASS.Whyyyyy??Is he not expendable??? ::MonkeyConfused::


what he did will give him life in preson...in 2005, he did not wnated to loose one of his offspring, but turns out that his offspring is a rotten apple. Not even mention the whole legal system that will come tubling down...remeber the Dutch High Court is the final Court for most of us...

Who is going to believe in them to Judge your future...

they were protecting the system...at all couse...but I know for a fact that the system is not working.

to many victims of fals accusations and deprived from there libery at the get go of the investigation, mean while if it it one of there own that is part of the Legal Bussiness, they will go to extream to hide the truth.

in these cases, the Only person that is inchage of under 18 kid crimes and is Dutch is F. van D.he is the behavior specialist. He can make you look not guilty even tho you are guilty or he can make you look a Saint meanwhile you are the devil in human form



Does anyone know who this is??Is he/she an intricate part of this cover-up??Just thoughts Caps...

Yes and according to CAPS, yes.

Hey CAPS,

is he the one Rudy says wanted Joran to be represented as Aruban, and not Dutch?  TIA



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: CapsLockWizard on December 04, 2008, 05:47:07 PM
All this for a 17 yr old BOY..How sickening..What can Aruba/Netherlands really do besides wiping out the whole GOVT and replacing it with a complete new one???

Caps!!!What occurs on Aruba that is so horrible that PVDS,Van Der stratten,Vocking,Janssen,Witt,Dompig,as well as others would TRY to save Joran's ASS.Whyyyyy??Is he not expendable??? ::MonkeyConfused::


what he did will give him life in preson...in 2005, he did not wnated to loose one of his offspring, but turns out that his offspring is a rotten apple. Not even mention the whole legal system that will come tubling down...remeber the Dutch High Court is the final Court for most of us...

Who is going to believe in them to Judge your future...

they were protecting the system...at all couse...but I know for a fact that the system is not working.

to many victims of fals accusations and deprived from there libery at the get go of the investigation, mean while if it it one of there own that is part of the Legal Bussiness, they will go to extream to hide the truth.

in these cases, the Only person that is inchage of under 18 kid crimes and is Dutch is F. van D.he is the behavior specialist. He can make you look not guilty even tho you are guilty or he can make you look a Saint meanwhile you are the devil in human form



Does anyone know who this is??Is he/she an intricate part of this cover-up??Just thoughts Caps...


on the night in question the Publick prosecuter that defend allway the Government and has all the power to twist thing is Dirty Hand aka F. van D....kom.

his power is at the same level as Hedrick Croes....


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Keepthefaith on December 04, 2008, 05:47:42 PM
All this for a 17 yr old BOY..How sickening..What can Aruba/Netherlands really do besides wiping out the whole GOVT and replacing it with a complete new one???

Caps!!!What occurs on Aruba that is so horrible that PVDS,Van Der stratten,Vocking,Janssen,Witt,Dompig,as well as others would TRY to save Joran's ASS.Whyyyyy??Is he not expendable??? ::MonkeyConfused::


what he did will give him life in preson...in 2005, he did not wnated to loose one of his offspring, but turns out that his offspring is a rotten apple. Not even mention the whole legal system that will come tubling down...remeber the Dutch High Court is the final Court for most of us...

Who is going to believe in them to Judge your future...

they were protecting the system...at all couse...but I know for a fact that the system is not working.

to many victims of fals accusations and deprived from there libery at the get go of the investigation, mean while if it it one of there own that is part of the Legal Bussiness, they will go to extream to hide the truth.

in these cases, the Only person that is inchage of under 18 kid crimes and is Dutch is F. van D.
he is the behavior specialist. He can make you look not guilty even tho you are guilty or he can make you look a Saint meanwhile you are the devil in human form



I appreciate your comments!What will it truly take to hold those accountable for what occured to Natalee??TIA.Any opinions??

well th check made is done and no way out...they got to prosecute. This will not be done by Hans Mos...If he love his Job and safe his skin, he got to prosecute otherwise Paters will step in and clean the mess

Is this a new prosecuter??Do the contents of the cage hold any bearing to this case to your knowledge??


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: CapsLockWizard on December 04, 2008, 05:56:22 PM
All this for a 17 yr old BOY..How sickening..What can Aruba/Netherlands really do besides wiping out the whole GOVT and replacing it with a complete new one???

Caps!!!What occurs on Aruba that is so horrible that PVDS,Van Der stratten,Vocking,Janssen,Witt,Dompig,as well as others would TRY to save Joran's ASS.Whyyyyy??Is he not expendable??? ::MonkeyConfused::


what he did will give him life in preson...in 2005, he did not wnated to loose one of his offspring, but turns out that his offspring is a rotten apple. Not even mention the whole legal system that will come tubling down...remeber the Dutch High Court is the final Court for most of us...

Who is going to believe in them to Judge your future...

they were protecting the system...at all couse...but I know for a fact that the system is not working.

to many victims of fals accusations and deprived from there libery at the get go of the investigation, mean while if it it one of there own that is part of the Legal Bussiness, they will go to extream to hide the truth.

in these cases, the Only person that is inchage of under 18 kid crimes and is Dutch is F. van D.
he is the behavior specialist. He can make you look not guilty even tho you are guilty or he can make you look a Saint meanwhile you are the devil in human form



I appreciate your comments!What will it truly take to hold those accountable for what occured to Natalee??TIA.Any opinions??

well th check made is done and no way out...they got to prosecute. This will not be done by Hans Mos...If he love his Job and safe his skin, he got to prosecute otherwise Paters will step in and clean the mess

Is this a new prosecuter??Do the contents of the cage hold any bearing to this case to your knowledge??


if they want to safe the Dutch court and for what they represent in high court in Den Haige, this prosecuter got to start cleaning up the Mess. The cat is out of the bag of the Minister of justice....lol, How is he going to say that it did not happend....Rudy want his court in Aruba and not part of this new central court.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: ldstlou on December 04, 2008, 05:57:44 PM
The point is..
They could have shipped Natalee out in a sealed coffin along with this body.
Which is now buried in Germany..
That is way too far fetched for me.
 

exactly ::MonkeyNoNo::

Hey Dana!! how are ya!! Is taco going to be on Friday?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: ldstlou on December 04, 2008, 05:58:51 PM
If you were being paid to dispose of a body for Paulus....would you be working at the local bank or would you go to someone that has contact with the type of people needed to make the disposal happen OR would you know you needed a lot of cash to pay these people and must go to the  right person that would never ever tell anyone about the transaction?   It's a toss up as to what Paulus was doing at the bank that day...but I am almost certain it had nothing to do with that pittance of money and a deposit for Joran.

CC...could have been next door working.
Ruth...unverifiable source of reason Paulus was at bank.
Simian...is a monkey with an uncle and a cousin.

What?  :smt102

Wonder if Paulus made an entry into a deposit box and the small deposit was just his excuse to visit the bank.



Maybe he took money out?



where ya been Lady!! Do you ever answer the phone? lol


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Kat_Gram on December 04, 2008, 06:03:26 PM
O/T Dana, you and I and Janet should form a coilition to run the country.
It seems they all want to be in charge of doing nothing. We could do that just as well.
I voted for none of them as I felt they were all incapable. ( I did vote ) I was right.   

yeah :-)
wasnt Dione's you tube video last night something else.  ::MonkeyHaHa::
I didn't see it unless it was on the CBC later. He can't lead. Neither can Duceppe. 
Layton did himself some harm here. I know the people who started the Rhinoceous party. They would be a good alternative. At least it would be as good as Satuday Night Live, Canadian version.
,,,
We heard about  the inappropriate phone calls between Van Der Stratten & Sloot years ago. I believe when Karin Janssen was still there. Nothing happened then. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Hotshot on December 04, 2008, 06:05:37 PM
Hotshot
 Reply #258 on: November 21, 2008, 10:53:44 PM »
CAPS knows Silvetti from meI was the one who told CAPS to go to the ship and wait for John.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4159.240

Hotshot
Reply #298 on: November 27, 2008, 11:57:50 AM »
 the persistence did tape who and what took all the baggies.  
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.280


 Kyle said: I have not given anything to the FBI since the pictures and statements from Dec 29th


Just what are you trying to prove?  I am NOT going another round with you, not here.  This is not the place for it, and it is disrespectable to Natalee and her family.  If anyone made all of this come out, I hate to say it, but it was Jorans BIG mouth.  Your trying to disprove people here is starting to make alto of people sick, I have gotten numerous emails about it.  Stop while SM is still ahead.  You are making something out of nothing.  If you want pics, I'll give you some pics to show everyone that Mr. Silvetti didn't need any extra's to try and live.  His stocks may have dropped, but in no means is this man wasting away.  Leave these poor people alone.  There must have been a million pics taken those few months, and your crying over a few that didn't make it to the FBI?  I am sure there have been alot more pics that did make it to them.. It's not about {{edit}} its about Natalee.



You both know I love you please NO NAMES


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: ldstlou on December 04, 2008, 06:07:23 PM
I still believe that a well scripted plan is attempting to be played out. It has taken countless hours by many to configure. It has been written over time, adjusted and tweaked along the way so as to serve its purpose. Close case, regain tourism dollars.

I agree!!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Keepthefaith on December 04, 2008, 06:08:56 PM
All this for a 17 yr old BOY..How sickening..What can Aruba/Netherlands really do besides wiping out the whole GOVT and replacing it with a complete new one???

Caps!!!What occurs on Aruba that is so horrible that PVDS,Van Der stratten,Vocking,Janssen,Witt,Dompig,as well as others would TRY to save Joran's ASS.Whyyyyy??Is he not expendable??? ::MonkeyConfused::


what he did will give him life in preson...in 2005, he did not wnated to loose one of his offspring, but turns out that his offspring is a rotten apple. Not even mention the whole legal system that will come tubling down...remeber the Dutch High Court is the final Court for most of us...

Who is going to believe in them to Judge your future...

they were protecting the system...at all couse...but I know for a fact that the system is not working.

to many victims of fals accusations and deprived from there libery at the get go of the investigation, mean while if it it one of there own that is part of the Legal Bussiness, they will go to extream to hide the truth.

in these cases, the Only person that is inchage of under 18 kid crimes and is Dutch is F. van D.
he is the behavior specialist. He can make you look not guilty even tho you are guilty or he can make you look a Saint meanwhile you are the devil in human form



I appreciate your comments!What will it truly take to hold those accountable for what occured to Natalee??TIA.Any opinions??

well th check made is done and no way out...they got to prosecute. This will not be done by Hans Mos...If he love his Job and safe his skin, he got to prosecute otherwise Paters will step in and clean the mess

Is this a new prosecuter??Do the contents of the cage hold any bearing to this case to your knowledge??


if they want to safe the Dutch court and for what they represent in high court in Den Haige, this prosecuter got to start cleaning up the Mess. The cat is out of the bag of the Minister of justice....lol, How is he going to say that it did not happend....Rudy want his court in Aruba and not part of this new central court.



Thanx.Starting to understand the Judicial aspect a little better!As we've been going along there has been lots of converstaion back and forth regarding the contents of the Persistence,the pictures,as well as the contents of the cage.I have went back and forth regarding what has transpired.To your knowledge does the anything involving that cage,and or contents have anything to do with Natalee's case.If you are unable to answer that is understood.As Hotshot has told me i must wait and see.LOL.I'm Keepingthefaith Hotshot;).I've also been wondering about the other 2 witnesses and when we'll hear of them..TIA.If you can answer...

Keepthefaith


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Tamikosmom on December 04, 2008, 06:09:01 PM

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub5/RuthDijkhoff.jpg)

So this lady died the day after Rene Heingyn (sp?).  He was the guy who had his throat slit open and was dumped in the cemetary near a police station.  Hmm.
[/quote]

... and 2 1/2 weeks she was the bank teller who served Paulus van der Sloot on the day of the morning when Natalee Holloway went missing.

This wannabe detective can speculate but ... confirmation would be appreciated.

Janet



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: ldstlou on December 04, 2008, 06:11:38 PM
Ruth died on June 18.  Paulus said he spent most of the day on May 30 driving to and from the bank so it would have been before her death.

What I meant was that he mentioned seeing her on 5/30 in the statement of 6/23 (which was a week, give or take, after her death).  It's possible he threw the name in there, and since she was dead, no one could question whether what he had said was true....not that the bank visit was ever verified that we know of, either.

Yes, in other words, a dead witness is no witness.

There is another person that worked at that bank also...Simian.

no crap??!! I didn't know that!!!!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: SS on December 04, 2008, 06:15:42 PM
The point is..
They could have shipped Natalee out in a sealed coffin along with this body.
Which is now buried in Germany..
That is way too far fetched for me.
 

exactly ::MonkeyNoNo::

it is to easy.
it is to clean.

van stratten could control this. He had a need to dispose of..
who found Ruth ?..How did she die.. ?

you have no body..no evidence..
once a coffin is Sealed it is not opened again unless there is family requesting to view..

you guys are just looking for something complicated.. like shango.
Or people who post with strange names and leave you guessing.

Dig up the body and prove me wrong.

3.6 years later..You have nothing..

We all know or feel Paulus..Now van stratten is in the picture as accomplice.. This could be within his control..








Edward - Caps has told us that it is possible that Natalee is in a crypt in the Masonic Cemetery.  Carpe found a match with a woman named Jalitza Wever who was buried the same week.  They actually did look somewhat similar.  It's interseting that the Wever crypts were later vandalized.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: SS on December 04, 2008, 06:19:06 PM
All this for a 17 yr old BOY..How sickening..What can Aruba/Netherlands really do besides wiping out the whole GOVT and replacing it with a complete new one???

Caps!!!What occurs on Aruba that is so horrible that PVDS,Van Der stratten,Vocking,Janssen,Witt,Dompig,as well as others would TRY to save Joran's ASS.Whyyyyy??Is he not expendable??? ::MonkeyConfused::


what he did will give him life in preson...in 2005, he did not wnated to loose one of his offspring, but turns out that his offspring is a rotten apple. Not even mention the whole legal system that will come tubling down...remeber the Dutch High Court is the final Court for most of us...

Who is going to believe in them to Judge your future...

they were protecting the system...at all couse...but I know for a fact that the system is not working.

to many victims of fals accusations and deprived from there libery at the get go of the investigation, mean while if it it one of there own that is part of the Legal Bussiness, they will go to extream to hide the truth.

in these cases, the Only person that is inchage of under 18 kid crimes and is Dutch is F. van D.he is the behavior specialist. He can make you look not guilty even tho you are guilty or he can make you look a Saint meanwhile you are the devil in human form



Does anyone know who this is??Is he/she an intricate part of this cover-up??Just thoughts Caps...




He's one of the Dirty Hands - Frans Deutekom.  We refer to him as DTKM.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Tamikosmom on December 04, 2008, 06:19:13 PM

Just what are you trying to prove?  I am NOT going another round with you, not here.  This is not the place for it, and it is disrespectable to Natalee and her family.  If anyone made all of this come out, I hate to say it, but it was Jorans BIG mouth.  Your trying to disprove people here is starting to make alto of people sick, I have gotten numerous emails about it.  Stop while SM is still ahead.  You are making something out of nothing.  If you want pics, I'll give you some pics to show everyone that Mr. Silvetti didn't need any extra's to try and live.  His stocks may have dropped, but in no means is this man wasting away.  Leave these poor people alone.  There must have been a million pics taken those few months, and your crying over a few that didn't make it to the FBI?  I am sure there have been alot more pics that did make it to them.. It's not about {{edit}} its about Natalee.

Hotshot ... either you believe these are Kyle's words in emails to Kermit or you do not.  If they are Kyle's words ... I wish he would afford those who supported the search effort in prayer and monies an explanation.  If they are not ... I wish Kyle would refute them.

Janet

______


The following is a compilation of quotes derived from emails communication between Kermit and Kyle.

Janet
________

Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #779 11/24/08 -
« Reply #532 on: November 25, 2008, 07:06:45 PM »


From Kyle: march 18, 2008:  If you want, you can get Red from SM off my back. I really don't like that guy. He thinks he knows what's going on but doesn't have a clue. I first saw the pics on the SM home page and fired off an email to Red believing that he would be understanding and help provide answers. I quickly found out what happened on my own and dealt with it. I could not believe his response.

~Kyle

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4179.msg557660#msg557660


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #779 11/24/08 -
« Reply #532 on: November 25, 2008, 07:06:45 PM »


From Kyle: I have not given anything to the FBI since the pictures and statements from Dec 29th

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4179.msg557660#msg557660


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #779 11/24/08 -
« Reply #532 on: November 25, 2008, 07:06:45 PM »


From Kyle: None of us gave any statements to the authorities after the 29th. It's possible John Silvetti did, because he was the only one conversing with them after Jan 7th.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4179.msg557660#msg557660


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #779 11/24/08 -
« Reply #532 on: November 25, 2008, 07:06:45 PM »


From Kyle: May 8, 2008: "I've talked with Peter Shouten numerous times back in February. He hasn't seen anything but knows about the blue fabrics. DeVries and Endemol was interested in purchasing the ROV footage and I was working between them, ABC, and CBS to strike a deal."

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4179.msg557660#msg557660


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #888 on: Today at 02:43:35 AM »


Jan. 7th picture Kyle said: "In case it isn't clear.. notice the blue denim-like fabric”

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564718#msg564718


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #902 on: Today at 03:09:00 AM »


Kyle said: "The Aruban divers were on the police boat, dove from their boat, and returned to their boat."

Kyle said: "They were immediately whisked away by the Aruban police and not seen of again by us on the 7th"

Kyle said: " John stood back and waited and worked with the Aruban Polis"

Kyle said: "John definitely believed the Arubans at their every word"

Kyle said: "John didn't want Tim Miller on board the Persistence because he said Tim wasn't necessary any more and was a liability"

Kyle said: "John told me then he didn't want to hear me ever mention the trap again."

June 10, 2008 = Kyle states: “He's [John Silvetti] seriously making plans to open an Aruba office so he can conduct business easier in S. America and that would allow him to do that."

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564763#msg564763


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #903 on: Today at 03:12:23 AM »


Kyle said: "Schafer is sue crazy."

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564766;topicseen#msg564766


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #897 on: Today at 03:02:28 AM »


Kyle: “I did not feel the same and we had a major difference in opinion. He [John Silvetti] was the one who never pressed ALE to be completely open with us with the trap evidence. I would have forced them to. However, John was the one paying my invoices so I was forced to sit back and hope for the best.”

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564753;topicseen#msg564753


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #883 on: Today at 02:39:52 AM »


Kyle said: " We all know it wasn't a blouse, but I believe they were sent some piece of fabric other than the fabric found inside the trap.”

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564707#msg564707


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #896 on: Today at 03:00:21 AM »


Kyle said: "The blue fabric was found right where the skirt is pictured. If it isn't her, it will forever haunt me as a major cosmic WTF.”

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564748;topicseen#msg564748


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #896 on: Today at 03:00:21 AM »


Kyle said: "We're being fed misinformation to keep us searching and out of their way while they cover their asses, destroy evidence, cover their tracks, and keep us out at sea and away from the trap."

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564748;topicseen#msg564748


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #888 on: Today at 02:43:35 AM »


Jan. 7th picture Kyle said: "In case it isn't clear.. notice the blue denim-like fabric”

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564718#msg564718


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #779 11/24/08 -
« Reply #532 on: Today at 07:06:45 PM »


From Kyle: May 8, 2008: "I've talked with Peter Shouten numerous times back in February. He hasn't seen anything but knows about the blue fabrics. DeVries and Endemol was interested in purchasing the ROV footage and I was working between them, ABC, and CBS to strike a deal."

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4179.msg557660#msg557660


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #882 on: Today at 02:36:28 AM »


Kyle said: "Louis is currently working with someone who I do not know to put together some documentary on the case, the way it was handled, and what happened during the search. I learned this from Tim T. yesterday. Louis was sold on the idea that it will make him a lot of money.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564701;topicseen#msg564701


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #802 on: December 02, 2008, 05:16:26 PM »


Kyle said: “The portion of the discolored blue fabric was presumably on the bottom of the fabric. In my opinion this discoloration is not another type of fabric, but rather biological staining or discoloration from biological growth caused from a high organic carbon content and decay. Basically, during decay a biological mat will form around the organics from remains. This is what I believe it is on the bottom of the fabric.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564125;topicseen#msg564125


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #779 11/24/08 -
« Reply #642 on: November 25, 2008, 10:12:27 PM »


May 8, 2008 = from Kyle: John Silvetti told me today that he may be returning to Aruba very soon for a few days.

May 19, 2008 = from Kyle:
"I couldn't get the logs from the Persistence. All things "Holloway" were stripped from the boat once it got back to Louisiana

JUNE 10, 2008 = from Kyle:
He's [John Silvetti] seriously making plans to open an Aruba office so he can conduct business easier in S. America and that would allow him to do that.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4179.msg557914;topicseen#msg557914


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #779 11/24/08 -
« Reply #635 on: November 25, 2008, 10:06:58 PM »


from Kyle: "It was confirmed by the FBI that they received a fabric sample send by Richardson and that it wasn't a match to Natalee's blouse. I think the video can prove or disprove whatever the FBI was sent was the same object or not. I strongly believe it's blue denim. Everyone I show thinks the same thing without being prompted (including senior ABC execs).

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4179.msg557906;topicseen#msg557906



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Kermit on December 04, 2008, 06:23:57 PM
Hi Kermit...do you have the bank/phone company photo, please?

This one?
(http://triton.imageshack.us/Himg70/scaled.php?server=70&filename=digicelpx2.jpg&xsize=578&ysize=480)


Anita's email was SETAR

Anita van der Sloot email:
> > > > >(i edited) @setarnet.aw

SO IS Gottenbos
Email: ica@setarnet.aw

The 100 million dollars that Croes is talking about is the tax exemption or tax holiday that the refinery currently has.  “Setar pays every year 75 million florins in taxes”, said Croes.  
http://tinyurl.com/qefda




Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: SS on December 04, 2008, 06:24:23 PM
Hotshot
 Reply #258 on: November 21, 2008, 10:53:44 PM »
CAPS knows Silvetti from meI was the one who told CAPS to go to the ship and wait for John.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4159.240

Hotshot
Reply #298 on: November 27, 2008, 11:57:50 AM »
 the persistence did tape who and what took all the baggies.  
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.280


 Kyle said: I have not given anything to the FBI since the pictures and statements from Dec 29th


Just what are you trying to prove?  I am NOT going another round with you, not here.  This is not the place for it, and it is disrespectable to Natalee and her family.  If anyone made all of this come out, I hate to say it, but it was Jorans BIG mouth.  Your trying to disprove people here is starting to make alto of people sick, I have gotten numerous emails about it.  Stop while SM is still ahead.  You are making something out of nothing.  If you want pics, I'll give you some pics to show everyone that Mr. Silvetti didn't need any extra's to try and live.  His stocks may have dropped, but in no means is this man wasting away.  Leave these poor people alone.  There must have been a million pics taken those few months, and your crying over a few that didn't make it to the FBI?  I am sure there have been alot more pics that did make it to them.. It's not about {{edit}}  its about Natalee.




Hotshot - do you know John Silvetti personally?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: ldstlou on December 04, 2008, 06:24:46 PM

Just what are you trying to prove?  I am NOT going another round with you, not here.  This is not the place for it, and it is disrespectable to Natalee and her family.  If anyone made all of this come out, I hate to say it, but it was Jorans BIG mouth.  Your trying to disprove people here is starting to make alto of people sick, I have gotten numerous emails about it.  Stop while SM is still ahead.  You are making something out of nothing.  If you want pics, I'll give you some pics to show everyone that Mr. Silvetti didn't need any extra's to try and live.  His stocks may have dropped, but in no means is this man wasting away.  Leave these poor people alone.  There must have been a million pics taken those few months, and your crying over a few that didn't make it to the FBI?  I am sure there have been alot more pics that did make it to them.. It's not about{{edit}} its about Natalee.

Hotshot ... either you believe these are Kyle's words in emails to Kermit or you do not.  If they are Kyle's words ... I wish he would afford those who supported the search effort in prayer and monies an explanation.  If they are not ... I wish Kyle would refute them.

Janet

______


The following is a compilation of quotes derived from emails communication between Kermit and Kyle.

Janet
________

Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #779 11/24/08 -
« Reply #532 on: November 25, 2008, 07:06:45 PM »


From Kyle: march 18, 2008:  If you want, you can get Red from SM off my back. I really don't like that guy. He thinks he knows what's going on but doesn't have a clue. I first saw the pics on the SM home page and fired off an email to Red believing that he would be understanding and help provide answers. I quickly found out what happened on my own and dealt with it. I could not believe his response.

~Kyle

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4179.msg557660#msg557660


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #779 11/24/08 -
« Reply #532 on: November 25, 2008, 07:06:45 PM »


From Kyle: I have not given anything to the FBI since the pictures and statements from Dec 29th

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4179.msg557660#msg557660


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #779 11/24/08 -
« Reply #532 on: November 25, 2008, 07:06:45 PM »


From Kyle: None of us gave any statements to the authorities after the 29th. It's possible John Silvetti did, because he was the only one conversing with them after Jan 7th.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4179.msg557660#msg557660


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #779 11/24/08 -
« Reply #532 on: November 25, 2008, 07:06:45 PM »


From Kyle: May 8, 2008: "I've talked with Peter Shouten numerous times back in February. He hasn't seen anything but knows about the blue fabrics. DeVries and Endemol was interested in purchasing the ROV footage and I was working between them, ABC, and CBS to strike a deal."

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4179.msg557660#msg557660


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #888 on: Today at 02:43:35 AM »


Jan. 7th picture Kyle said: "In case it isn't clear.. notice the blue denim-like fabric”

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564718#msg564718


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #902 on: Today at 03:09:00 AM »


Kyle said: "The Aruban divers were on the police boat, dove from their boat, and returned to their boat."

Kyle said: "They were immediately whisked away by the Aruban police and not seen of again by us on the 7th"

Kyle said: " John stood back and waited and worked with the Aruban Polis"

Kyle said: "John definitely believed the Arubans at their every word"

Kyle said: "John didn't want Tim Miller on board the Persistence because he said Tim wasn't necessary any more and was a liability"

Kyle said: "John told me then he didn't want to hear me ever mention the trap again."

June 10, 2008 = Kyle states: “He's [John Silvetti] seriously making plans to open an Aruba office so he can conduct business easier in S. America and that would allow him to do that."

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564763#msg564763


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #903 on: Today at 03:12:23 AM »


Kyle said: "Schafer is sue crazy."

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564766;topicseen#msg564766


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #897 on: Today at 03:02:28 AM »


Kyle: “I did not feel the same and we had a major difference in opinion. He [John Silvetti] was the one who never pressed ALE to be completely open with us with the trap evidence. I would have forced them to. However, John was the one paying my invoices so I was forced to sit back and hope for the best.”

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564753;topicseen#msg564753


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #883 on: Today at 02:39:52 AM »


Kyle said: " We all know it wasn't a blouse, but I believe they were sent some piece of fabric other than the fabric found inside the trap.”

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564707#msg564707


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #896 on: Today at 03:00:21 AM »


Kyle said: "The blue fabric was found right where the skirt is pictured. If it isn't her, it will forever haunt me as a major cosmic WTF.”

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564748;topicseen#msg564748


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #896 on: Today at 03:00:21 AM »


Kyle said: "We're being fed misinformation to keep us searching and out of their way while they cover their asses, destroy evidence, cover their tracks, and keep us out at sea and away from the trap."

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564748;topicseen#msg564748


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #888 on: Today at 02:43:35 AM »


Jan. 7th picture Kyle said: "In case it isn't clear.. notice the blue denim-like fabric”

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564718#msg564718


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #779 11/24/08 -
« Reply #532 on: Today at 07:06:45 PM »


From Kyle: May 8, 2008: "I've talked with Peter Shouten numerous times back in February. He hasn't seen anything but knows about the blue fabrics. DeVries and Endemol was interested in purchasing the ROV footage and I was working between them, ABC, and CBS to strike a deal."

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4179.msg557660#msg557660


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #882 on: Today at 02:36:28 AM »


Kyle said: "Louis is currently working with someone who I do not know to put together some documentary on the case, the way it was handled, and what happened during the search. I learned this from Tim T. yesterday. Louis was sold on the idea that it will make him a lot of money.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564701;topicseen#msg564701


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #802 on: December 02, 2008, 05:16:26 PM »


Kyle said: “The portion of the discolored blue fabric was presumably on the bottom of the fabric. In my opinion this discoloration is not another type of fabric, but rather biological staining or discoloration from biological growth caused from a high organic carbon content and decay. Basically, during decay a biological mat will form around the organics from remains. This is what I believe it is on the bottom of the fabric.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564125;topicseen#msg564125


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #779 11/24/08 -
« Reply #642 on: November 25, 2008, 10:12:27 PM »


May 8, 2008 = from Kyle: John Silvetti told me today that he may be returning to Aruba very soon for a few days.

May 19, 2008 = from Kyle:
"I couldn't get the logs from the Persistence. All things "Holloway" were stripped from the boat once it got back to Louisiana

JUNE 10, 2008 = from Kyle:
He's [John Silvetti] seriously making plans to open an Aruba office so he can conduct business easier in S. America and that would allow him to do that.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4179.msg557914;topicseen#msg557914


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #779 11/24/08 -
« Reply #635 on: November 25, 2008, 10:06:58 PM »


from Kyle: "It was confirmed by the FBI that they received a fabric sample send by Richardson and that it wasn't a match to Natalee's blouse. I think the video can prove or disprove whatever the FBI was sent was the same object or not. I strongly believe it's blue denim. Everyone I show thinks the same thing without being prompted (including senior ABC execs).

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4179.msg557906;topicseen#msg557906



Janet don't get mad at me!!! I'll send ya another UPS guy if ya don't!! I real good one!!! lol

I sent Kyle an IM and advised he not respond. I don't think the guy can win this one and I know darned well he would be attacked. Now...my word is not going to get him not to post!!! lol Don't even know the guy!! But I supported him in his decision to just let it rest.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Tamikosmom on December 04, 2008, 06:26:24 PM

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub5/RuthDijkhoff.jpg)

So this lady died the day after Rene Heingyn (sp?).  He was the guy who had his throat slit open and was dumped in the cemetary near a police station.  Hmm.


Ruth Gisela Dijkhoff-Holtmann was the bank teller who served Paulus van der Sloot on the day of the morning when Natalee Holloway went missing and .... 2 1/2 weeks later she was dead.

This wannabe detective can speculate but ... confirmation would be appreciated.

Janet


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Kermit on December 04, 2008, 06:27:00 PM
Hotshot
 Reply #258 on: November 21, 2008, 10:53:44 PM »
CAPS knows Silvetti from meI was the one who told CAPS to go to the ship and wait for John.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4159.240

Hotshot
Reply #298 on: November 27, 2008, 11:57:50 AM »
 the persistence did tape who and what took all the baggies.  
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.280


 Kyle said: I have not given anything to the FBI since the pictures and statements from Dec 29th


Just what are you trying to prove?  I am NOT going another round with you, not here.  This is not the place for it, and it is disrespectable to Natalee and her family.  If anyone made all of this come out, I hate to say it, but it was Jorans BIG mouth.  Your trying to disprove people here is starting to make alto of people sick, I have gotten numerous emails about it.  Stop while SM is still ahead.  You are making something out of nothing.  If you want pics, I'll give you some pics to show everyone that Mr. Silvetti didn't need any extra's to try and live.  His stocks may have dropped, but in no means is this man wasting away.  Leave these poor people alone.  There must have been a million pics taken those few months, and your crying over a few that didn't make it to the FBI?  I am sure there have been alot more pics that did make it to them.. It's not about {{edit}}, its about Natalee.




Hotshot
Scared Monkey
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Re: Natalee Case Discussion #734 2/21 -
« Reply #941 on: February 23, 2008, 11:02:24 PM »
   
Hey Guys just got a letter from Beth.  I told her of the people we met today, and she responded with this.   

Oh Kathy.........I am just sick and saddened after reading each child's tragic senseless death. Each story sounds too familiar. Please convey to the families my heart goes out to them as I experience their hurt. It is deep and incomprehensible.
 
Hugs to you!
 
xoxo
Beth
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2629.msg354919#msg354919



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: SS on December 04, 2008, 06:27:19 PM
Ruth died on June 18.  Paulus said he spent most of the day on May 30 driving to and from the bank so it would have been before her death.

What I meant was that he mentioned seeing her on 5/30 in the statement of 6/23 (which was a week, give or take, after her death).  It's possible he threw the name in there, and since she was dead, no one could question whether what he had said was true....not that the bank visit was ever verified that we know of, either.

Yes, in other words, a dead witness is no witness.

There is another person that worked at that bank also...Simian.

no crap??!! I didn't know that!!!!!




Armin Solognier is the nephew of Rufo Solgnier, former chief of police.  Armin is also the cousin of Steve Croes.  According to Caps, Rufo was assigned cleanup of the murder scene.  Armin is Simian.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Hotshot on December 04, 2008, 06:28:16 PM

Just what are you trying to prove?  I am NOT going another round with you, not here.  This is not the place for it, and it is disrespectable to Natalee and her family.  If anyone made all of this come out, I hate to say it, but it was Jorans BIG mouth.  Your trying to disprove people here is starting to make alto of people sick, I have gotten numerous emails about it.  Stop while SM is still ahead.  You are making something out of nothing.  If you want pics, I'll give you some pics to show everyone that Mr. Silvetti didn't need any extra's to try and live.  His stocks may have dropped, but in no means is this man wasting away.  Leave these poor people alone.  There must have been a million pics taken those few months, and your crying over a few that didn't make it to the FBI?  I am sure there have been alot more pics that did make it to them.. It's not about ((edit)), its about Natalee.

Hotshot ... either you believe these are Kyle's words in emails to Kermit or you do not.  If they are Kyle's words ... I wish he would afford those who supported the search effort in prayer and monies an explanation.  If they are not ... I wish Kyle would refute them.

Janet

______


The following is a compilation of quotes derived from emails communication between Kermit and Kyle.

Janet
________

Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #779 11/24/08 -
« Reply #532 on: November 25, 2008, 07:06:45 PM »


From Kyle: march 18, 2008:  If you want, you can get Red from SM off my back. I really don't like that guy. He thinks he knows what's going on but doesn't have a clue. I first saw the pics on the SM home page and fired off an email to Red believing that he would be understanding and help provide answers. I quickly found out what happened on my own and dealt with it. I could not believe his response.

~Kyle

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4179.msg557660#msg557660


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #779 11/24/08 -
« Reply #532 on: November 25, 2008, 07:06:45 PM »


From Kyle: I have not given anything to the FBI since the pictures and statements from Dec 29th

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4179.msg557660#msg557660


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #779 11/24/08 -
« Reply #532 on: November 25, 2008, 07:06:45 PM »


From Kyle: None of us gave any statements to the authorities after the 29th. It's possible John Silvetti did, because he was the only one conversing with them after Jan 7th.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4179.msg557660#msg557660


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #779 11/24/08 -
« Reply #532 on: November 25, 2008, 07:06:45 PM »


From Kyle: May 8, 2008: "I've talked with Peter Shouten numerous times back in February. He hasn't seen anything but knows about the blue fabrics. DeVries and Endemol was interested in purchasing the ROV footage and I was working between them, ABC, and CBS to strike a deal."

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4179.msg557660#msg557660


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #888 on: Today at 02:43:35 AM »


Jan. 7th picture Kyle said: "In case it isn't clear.. notice the blue denim-like fabric”

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564718#msg564718


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #902 on: Today at 03:09:00 AM »


Kyle said: "The Aruban divers were on the police boat, dove from their boat, and returned to their boat."

Kyle said: "They were immediately whisked away by the Aruban police and not seen of again by us on the 7th"

Kyle said: " John stood back and waited and worked with the Aruban Polis"

Kyle said: "John definitely believed the Arubans at their every word"

Kyle said: "John didn't want Tim Miller on board the Persistence because he said Tim wasn't necessary any more and was a liability"

Kyle said: "John told me then he didn't want to hear me ever mention the trap again."

June 10, 2008 = Kyle states: “He's [John Silvetti] seriously making plans to open an Aruba office so he can conduct business easier in S. America and that would allow him to do that."

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564763#msg564763


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #903 on: Today at 03:12:23 AM »


Kyle said: "Schafer is sue crazy."

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564766;topicseen#msg564766


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #897 on: Today at 03:02:28 AM »


Kyle: “I did not feel the same and we had a major difference in opinion. He [John Silvetti] was the one who never pressed ALE to be completely open with us with the trap evidence. I would have forced them to. However, John was the one paying my invoices so I was forced to sit back and hope for the best.”

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564753;topicseen#msg564753


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #883 on: Today at 02:39:52 AM »


Kyle said: " We all know it wasn't a blouse, but I believe they were sent some piece of fabric other than the fabric found inside the trap.”

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564707#msg564707


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #896 on: Today at 03:00:21 AM »


Kyle said: "The blue fabric was found right where the skirt is pictured. If it isn't her, it will forever haunt me as a major cosmic WTF.”

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564748;topicseen#msg564748


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #896 on: Today at 03:00:21 AM »


Kyle said: "We're being fed misinformation to keep us searching and out of their way while they cover their asses, destroy evidence, cover their tracks, and keep us out at sea and away from the trap."

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564748;topicseen#msg564748


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #888 on: Today at 02:43:35 AM »


Jan. 7th picture Kyle said: "In case it isn't clear.. notice the blue denim-like fabric”

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564718#msg564718


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #779 11/24/08 -
« Reply #532 on: Today at 07:06:45 PM »


From Kyle: May 8, 2008: "I've talked with Peter Shouten numerous times back in February. He hasn't seen anything but knows about the blue fabrics. DeVries and Endemol was interested in purchasing the ROV footage and I was working between them, ABC, and CBS to strike a deal."

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4179.msg557660#msg557660


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #882 on: Today at 02:36:28 AM »


Kyle said: "Louis is currently working with someone who I do not know to put together some documentary on the case, the way it was handled, and what happened during the search. I learned this from Tim T. yesterday. Louis was sold on the idea that it will make him a lot of money.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564701;topicseen#msg564701


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #802 on: December 02, 2008, 05:16:26 PM »


Kyle said: “The portion of the discolored blue fabric was presumably on the bottom of the fabric. In my opinion this discoloration is not another type of fabric, but rather biological staining or discoloration from biological growth caused from a high organic carbon content and decay. Basically, during decay a biological mat will form around the organics from remains. This is what I believe it is on the bottom of the fabric.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564125;topicseen#msg564125


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #779 11/24/08 -
« Reply #642 on: November 25, 2008, 10:12:27 PM »


May 8, 2008 = from Kyle: John Silvetti told me today that he may be returning to Aruba very soon for a few days.

May 19, 2008 = from Kyle:
"I couldn't get the logs from the Persistence. All things "Holloway" were stripped from the boat once it got back to Louisiana

JUNE 10, 2008 = from Kyle:
He's [John Silvetti] seriously making plans to open an Aruba office so he can conduct business easier in S. America and that would allow him to do that.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4179.msg557914;topicseen#msg557914


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #779 11/24/08 -
« Reply #635 on: November 25, 2008, 10:06:58 PM »


from Kyle: "It was confirmed by the FBI that they received a fabric sample send by Richardson and that it wasn't a match to Natalee's blouse. I think the video can prove or disprove whatever the FBI was sent was the same object or not. I strongly believe it's blue denim. Everyone I show thinks the same thing without being prompted (including senior ABC execs).

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4179.msg557906;topicseen#msg557906


First of all Kyle has made his last post, he told that to us when he made it.  So that is final.  I am not saying I dont believe what was said in the emails, he is a kid, he could have been bragging.  We saw the side of him that was the inelectual side.  Maybe he had copies of a few of the pics, and was bragging on how he could sell them, I fully believe that Kyle is not the type who would sell them.  I also firmly believe that personal emails should not be posted here on a forum.  Not Kyles, and not Beths.  And for someone back a few pages ago who said that if that had been Nats remains, the family would be screaming it..... No they wouldn't.  They wouldn't want to make a scene about any of it.  Not after all they have gone through.  

Caps, please sign on.......  it didn't go thru.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Lifesong on December 04, 2008, 06:29:44 PM
Hotshot
 Reply #258 on: November 21, 2008, 10:53:44 PM »
CAPS knows Silvetti from meI was the one who told CAPS to go to the ship and wait for John.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4159.240

Hotshot
Reply #298 on: November 27, 2008, 11:57:50 AM »
 the persistence did tape who and what took all the baggies.  
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.280


 Kyle said: I have not given anything to the FBI since the pictures and statements from Dec 29th


Just what are you trying to prove?  I am NOT going another round with you, not here.  This is not the place for it, and it is disrespectable to Natalee and her family.  If anyone made all of this come out, I hate to say it, but it was Jorans BIG mouth.  Your trying to disprove people here is starting to make alto of people sick, I have gotten numerous emails about it.  Stop while SM is still ahead.  You are making something out of nothing.  If you want pics, I'll give you some pics to show everyone that Mr. Silvetti didn't need any extra's to try and live.  His stocks may have dropped, but in no means is this man wasting away.  Leave these poor people alone.  There must have been a million pics taken those few months, and your crying over a few that didn't make it to the FBI?  I am sure there have been alot more pics that did make it to them.. It's not about ((edit)), its about Natalee.

I must say - that last post was a big, giant, waving, red flag to me.
Disrespectful to Natalee's family?
Shifting blame now from Kermit to Joran?
Stop posting about it because you say so?
So what if they didn't turn over pictures of EVIDENCE to the FBI? 

Wow.  Just...wow.
 :shock:   :smt102


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Kermit on December 04, 2008, 06:30:38 PM
The point is..
They could have shipped Natalee out in a sealed coffin along with this body.
Which is now buried in Germany..
That is way too far fetched for me.
 

exactly ::MonkeyNoNo::


(http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/9041/godfatherandtacoqx8.th.png)




Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Hotshot on December 04, 2008, 06:35:07 PM
Quote
   
Hey Guys just got a letter from Beth.  I told her of the people we met today, and she responded with this.   

Oh Kathy.........I am just sick and saddened after reading each child's tragic senseless death. Each story sounds too familiar. Please convey to the families my heart goes out to them as I experience their hurt. It is deep and incomprehensible.
 
Hugs to you!
 
xoxo
Beth
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2629.msg354919#msg354919
Good investigative work.......  She was the one who told me to post it.  Can you remember where I was at the time of posting it?  No, I bet you can't.  ******* sitting right beside me as a matter of fact.  I was at one of the many tourism shows, helping out with the quest that Beth has set forth, to try and save families from this hurt.  Not to try and make someone who has helped look like a mobster.

SS........yes




Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: SS on December 04, 2008, 06:36:00 PM
Hotshot
 Reply #258 on: November 21, 2008, 10:53:44 PM »
CAPS knows Silvetti from meI was the one who told CAPS to go to the ship and wait for John.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4159.240

Hotshot
Reply #298 on: November 27, 2008, 11:57:50 AM »
 the persistence did tape who and what took all the baggies.  
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.280


 Kyle said: I have not given anything to the FBI since the pictures and statements from Dec 29th


Just what are you trying to prove?  I am NOT going another round with you, not here.  This is not the place for it, and it is disrespectable to Natalee and her family.  If anyone made all of this come out, I hate to say it, but it was Jorans BIG mouth.  Your trying to disprove people here is starting to make alto of people sick, I have gotten numerous emails about it.  Stop while SM is still ahead.  You are making something out of nothing.  If you want pics, I'll give you some pics to show everyone that Mr. Silvetti didn't need any extra's to try and live.  His stocks may have dropped, but in no means is this man wasting away.  Leave these poor people alone.   There must have been a million pics taken those few months, and your crying over a few that didn't make it to the FBI?  I am sure there have been alot more pics that did make it to them.. It's not about ((edit)), its about Natalee.




Hotshot - do you know John Silvetti personally?




Hotshot - How do you know this information?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: wreck on December 04, 2008, 06:37:47 PM
For Hotshot, Kermit, Caps, for "whomever" that claims to be "insiders" and "in-the-know" -- is it possible that you are ALL correct??? Many (including Hotshot - as I read it) believe at least SOME of Natalee was in the cage. Some of the same  people have undying loyalty and belief in Caps, Silvetti and the pond. Is there a scenario where everyone is correct???


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Hotshot on December 04, 2008, 06:38:52 PM
For Hotshot, Kermit, Caps, for "whomever" that claims to be "insiders" and "in-the-know" -- is it possible that you are ALL correct??? Many (including Hotshot - as I read it) believe at least SOME of Natalee was in the cage. Some of the same  people have undying loyalty and belief in Caps, Silvetti and the pond. Is there a scenario where everyone is correct???
Yes


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Kermit on December 04, 2008, 06:41:26 PM
Kyle stated: "He [John Silvetti] knows nothing of what we're about to do with the footage.

Kyle stated:: May 8, 2008: "I've talked with Peter Shouten numerous times back in February. He hasn't seen anything but knows about the blue fabrics. DeVries and Endemol was interested in purchasing the ROV footage and I was working between them, ABC, and CBS to strike a deal."

Kyle stated: "He{John Silvetti]  says: "Mos is inept and treated like a mushroom"

Kyle stated: "On the other hand, those differences has also caused a rift between Tim Trahan/Louis and myself with John (although John and I remain close friends and colleagues). The result is Tim, Louis and I are moving forward and John is left out of the loop."




Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Kermit on December 04, 2008, 06:44:23 PM
For Hotshot, Kermit, Caps, for "whomever" that claims to be "insiders" and "in-the-know" -- is it possible that you are ALL correct??? Many (including Hotshot - as I read it) believe at least SOME of Natalee was in the cage. Some of the same  people have undying loyalty and belief in Caps, Silvetti and the pond. Is there a scenario where everyone is correct???

 ::MonkeyCool::

Well, yesterday Hotshot called me a liar.
Today, she agrees that kermit is telling the truth.
Because, Kermit IS telling you the truth.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Kermit on December 04, 2008, 06:45:05 PM
Quote
   
Hey Guys just got a letter from Beth.  I told her of the people we met today, and she responded with this.   

Oh Kathy.........I am just sick and saddened after reading each child's tragic senseless death. Each story sounds too familiar. Please convey to the families my heart goes out to them as I experience their hurt. It is deep and incomprehensible.
 
Hugs to you!
 
xoxo
Beth
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2629.msg354919#msg354919
Good investigative work.......  She was the one who told me to post it.  Can you remember where I was at the time of posting it?  No, I bet you can't.  ******* sitting right beside me as a matter of fact.  I was at one of the many tourism shows, helping out with the quest that Beth has set forth, to try and save families from this hurt.  Not to try and make someone who has helped look like a mobster.

SS........yes




Yes. I'm a good investigator.
 ::MonkeyCool::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: MumInOhio on December 04, 2008, 06:45:19 PM

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub5/RuthDijkhoff.jpg)

So this lady died the day after Rene Heingyn (sp?).  He was the guy who had his throat slit open and was dumped in the cemetary near a police station.  Hmm.


Ruth Gisela Dijkhoff-Holtmann was the bank teller who served Paulus van der Sloot on the day of the morning when Natalee Holloway went missing and .... 2 1/2 weeks later she was dead.

This wannabe detective can speculate but ... confirmation would be appreciated.

Janet


Janet..I hate to see you suffering...I don't see anything here that tells me Ruth was a bank teller...

It may not even be the same Ruth!

Paulus 6/23 PV

To your question whether I went to the bank without stopping or going anywhere else, I can state the following. I at least cannot
remember having been anywhere else. I think I went directly to the bank. At the bank I talked to Ruth DIJKHOFF. At the bank I deposited the money that Joran said that he had won in the “Free Tournament in the Holiday Inn” on the 29th of May 2005. It was approximately 500 Aruban guilders. Joran had given me 100 guilders because he had taken over my place in the
tournament.

After depositing the money I went home. I cannot exactly remember what time it was when I got home. I think it was 16.15 hours. According to me both Rita and Joran where at home. Whether Valentijn and Sebastian where also there that Monday I cannot remember anymore because Valentijn and Sebastian quite often went over to a friends house during that time-period.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: SS on December 04, 2008, 06:46:29 PM
For Hotshot, Kermit, Caps, for "whomever" that claims to be "insiders" and "in-the-know" -- is it possible that you are ALL correct??? Many (including Hotshot - as I read it) believe at least SOME of Natalee was in the cage. Some of the same  people have undying loyalty and belief in Caps, Silvetti and the pond. Is there a scenario where everyone is correct???
Yes




Hotshot - there has been a lot of discord in the cage for the past few weeks.  You have mentioned that you know of people who are upset and sick about it.  I know many monkeys who are also upset about it all.  There have been many accusations and many denials, but only one source seems to be providing any documentation to support claims.  Perhaps, the time has come for you to share what you know with the rest of us.  As a group, we have spent hours, days, months, and years trying to make sense of Natalee's disappearance.  It's disheartening to know that there are monkeys among us that have answers to the questions that are frustrating us.  Since you do personally know those who were in charge of the Persistence venture, perhaps now is the time to enlighten the rest of us.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Elaine on December 04, 2008, 06:47:33 PM
Ok, Ive been lurking and reading. I would just like to ask one question to Kermit and Hotshot.
So do you think part of natalee WAS found in that cage. Because it is sure sounding like that is what you are both saying, just in different ways. TIA


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: wreck on December 04, 2008, 06:52:00 PM
Ok, Ive been lurking and reading. I would just like to ask one question to Kermit and Hotshot.
So do you think part of natalee WAS found in that cage. Because it is sure sounding like that is what you are both saying, just in different ways. TIA
Amen!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Helen Back on December 04, 2008, 06:52:34 PM
For Hotshot, Kermit, Caps, for "whomever" that claims to be "insiders" and "in-the-know" -- is it possible that you are ALL correct??? Many (including Hotshot - as I read it) believe at least SOME of Natalee was in the cage. Some of the same  people have undying loyalty and belief in Caps, Silvetti and the pond. Is there a scenario where everyone is correct???
Yes

Well, GOOD.  I'm glad that is settled.

Thanks, Wreck, for cutting right to the chase.
 ::MonkeyCool::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: wreck on December 04, 2008, 06:52:48 PM
For Hotshot, Kermit, Caps, for "whomever" that claims to be "insiders" and "in-the-know" -- is it possible that you are ALL correct??? Many (including Hotshot - as I read it) believe at least SOME of Natalee was in the cage. Some of the same  people have undying loyalty and belief in Caps, Silvetti and the pond. Is there a scenario where everyone is correct???
Yes
Amen to that too!



Hotshot - there has been a lot of discord in the cage for the past few weeks.  You have mentioned that you know of people who are upset and sick about it.  I know many monkeys who are also upset about it all.  There have been many accusations and many denials, but only one source seems to be providing any documentation to support claims.  Perhaps, the time has come for you to share what you know with the rest of us.  As a group, we have spent hours, days, months, and years trying to make sense of Natalee's disappearance.  It's disheartening to know that there are monkeys among us that have answers to the questions that are frustrating us.  Since you do personally know those who were in charge of the Persistence venture, perhaps now is the time to enlighten the rest of us.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Tamikosmom on December 04, 2008, 06:53:48 PM

Just what are you trying to prove?  I am NOT going another round with you, not here.  This is not the place for it, and it is disrespectable to Natalee and her family.  If anyone made all of this come out, I hate to say it, but it was Jorans BIG mouth.  Your trying to disprove people here is starting to make alto of people sick, I have gotten numerous emails about it.  Stop while SM is still ahead.  You are making something out of nothing.  If you want pics, I'll give you some pics to show everyone that Mr. Silvetti didn't need any extra's to try and live.  His stocks may have dropped, but in no means is this man wasting away.  Leave these poor people alone.  There must have been a million pics taken those few months, and your crying over a few that didn't make it to the FBI?  I am sure there have been alot more pics that did make it to them.. It's not about ((edit)), its about Natalee.

Hotshot ... either you believe these are Kyle's words in emails to Kermit or you do not.  If they are Kyle's words ... I wish he would afford those who supported the search effort in prayer and monies an explanation.  If they are not ... I wish Kyle would refute them.

Janet

<snipped>

______



Janet don't get mad at me!!! I'll send ya another UPS guy if ya don't!! I real good one!!! lol

I sent Kyle an IM and advised he not respond. I don't think the guy can win this one and I know darned well he would be attacked. Now...my word is not going to get him not to post!!! lol Don't even know the guy!! But I supported him in his decision to just let it rest.

Lou ... no thanks but ... cold cash would suffice.

The last two UPS guys you sent me were useless.  I placed a table in the closet where I was holding them hostage and ... set up the Scrabble board and ... they implied rather die than submit to a game with me.  I gave up and set them free.

 ::MonkeyWaa::

Lou ... this issue has upset me very much.  I have posted with Kermit since the getgo and ... in spite of our differences regarding some issues ... I have never known him/her to be dishonest.  Justice for Natalee Holloway has been his/her objective and ... his/her research that translates into countless hours he has shared with Natalee forums attests to his/her dedication to the cause.

Also ... much of what Kermit has revealed ... I was suspicious of at the beginning of the summer when I began reading contradictions in Kyle's posts.  I was in the minority on the forum in my suspicious ... so I bowed out for five months.

Lou ... so many of us Monkeys have a food planted on BOTH sides of the fence regarding this topic and ... it is important that there is confirmation one way or the other.

Janet


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Kermit on December 04, 2008, 06:55:44 PM
Hotshot
 Reply #258 on: November 21, 2008, 10:53:44 PM »
CAPS knows Silvetti from meI was the one who told CAPS to go to the ship and wait for John.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4159.240

Hotshot
Reply #298 on: November 27, 2008, 11:57:50 AM »
 the persistence did tape who and what took all the baggies.  
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.280


 Kyle said: I have not given anything to the FBI since the pictures and statements from Dec 29th


Just what are you trying to prove?  I am NOT going another round with you, not here.  This is not the place for it, and it is disrespectable to Natalee and her family.  If anyone made all of this come out, I hate to say it, but it was Jorans BIG mouth.  Your trying to disprove people here is starting to make alto of people sick, I have gotten numerous emails about it.  Stop while SM is still ahead.  You are making something out of nothing.  If you want pics, I'll give you some pics to show everyone that Mr. Silvetti didn't need any extra's to try and live.  His stocks may have dropped, but in no means is this man wasting away.  Leave these poor people alone.   There must have been a million pics taken those few months, and your crying over a few that didn't make it to the FBI?  I am sure there have been alot more pics that did make it to them.. It's not about ((edit)), its about Natalee.




Hotshot - do you know John Silvetti personally?




Hotshot - How do you know this information?

Hotshot to Kyle:
 Hi there, and good to see you here at the SM site.  It was me who sent that cryptic message to your blog, sorry about all that.  Its just one of the things that we dealt with here early on in the case.  It looked to be someone in the know.  You can take it down if you wish, I just thought it might be of some help.  But once again, I praise the work you guys are doing, and wish I could be there myself to help with the search.  My prayers are with all of you for a great outcome.  Hey, remember, there really are pirates out there!
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2429.msg315194#msg315194

Hotshot
 Reply #258 on: November 21, 2008, 10:53:44 PM »
CAPS knows Silvetti from meI was the one who told CAPS to go to the ship and wait for John.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4159.240



Hotshot -
 You guys are going to look really silly in the end for downing the people like silvetti, and Kyle, and CAPS.

BUT then
Hotshot agrees with what Kermit has posted:

the persistance did tape who and what took all the baggies.  
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.280


Kyle stated: "John is not a believer in the trap. He took ALE's word as gospel that it wasn't case related, yet never studied the videos or bothered to inquire further."




Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Frank on December 04, 2008, 06:57:08 PM
Rudy Croes is a politician, and they go with the way the wind blows and hopefully are a little ahead of the wind.

Rudy may be reading the tea leaves and wants to premptively get ahead of what's coming. I don't think this is a giant coordinated conspiracy. It is a lot of sewn together CYA's but if someone in Holland is interested, no doubt people in Aruba don't want to be on the wrong end of someone's wrath.

And that changes and could be changing. If Rudy Croes backs off, it's because whoever holds sway at the moment, is asking him to. If not, maybe the Aruba budget has been moved to someone else's P&L.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Kermit on December 04, 2008, 06:57:40 PM
Ok, Ive been lurking and reading. I would just like to ask one question to Kermit and Hotshot.
So do you think part of natalee WAS found in that cage. Because it is sure sounding like that is what you are both saying, just in different ways. TIA

According to the experts, YES she was in the cage.




Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Keepthefaith on December 04, 2008, 06:57:58 PM
All this for a 17 yr old BOY..How sickening..What can Aruba/Netherlands really do besides wiping out the whole GOVT and replacing it with a complete new one???

Caps!!!What occurs on Aruba that is so horrible that PVDS,Van Der stratten,Vocking,Janssen,Witt,Dompig,as well as others would TRY to save Joran's ASS.Whyyyyy??Is he not expendable??? ::MonkeyConfused::


what he did will give him life in preson...in 2005, he did not wnated to loose one of his offspring, but turns out that his offspring is a rotten apple. Not even mention the whole legal system that will come tubling down...remeber the Dutch High Court is the final Court for most of us...

Who is going to believe in them to Judge your future...

they were protecting the system...at all couse...but I know for a fact that the system is not working.

to many victims of fals accusations and deprived from there libery at the get go of the investigation, mean while if it it one of there own that is part of the Legal Bussiness, they will go to extream to hide the truth.

in these cases, the Only person that is inchage of under 18 kid crimes and is Dutch is F. van D.
he is the behavior specialist. He can make you look not guilty even tho you are guilty or he can make you look a Saint meanwhile you are the devil in human form



I appreciate your comments!What will it truly take to hold those accountable for what occured to Natalee??TIA.Any opinions??

well th check made is done and no way out...they got to prosecute. This will not be done by Hans Mos...If he love his Job and safe his skin, he got to prosecute otherwise Paters will step in and clean the mess

Is this a new prosecuter??Do the contents of the cage hold any bearing to this case to your knowledge??


if they want to safe the Dutch court and for what they represent in high court in Den Haige, this prosecuter got to start cleaning up the Mess. The cat is out of the bag of the Minister of justice....lol, How is he going to say that it did not happend....Rudy want his court in Aruba and not part of this new central court.



Thanx.Starting to understand the Judicial aspect a little better!As we've been going along there has been lots of converstaion back and forth regarding the contents of the Persistence,the pictures,as well as the contents of the cage.I have went back and forth regarding what has transpired.To your knowledge does the anything involving that cage,and or contents have anything to do with Natalee's case.If you are unable to answer that is understood.As Hotshot has told me i must wait and see.LOL.I'm Keepingthefaith Hotshot;).I've also been wondering about the other 2 witnesses and when we'll hear of them..TIA.If you can answer...

Keepthefaith

Not sure if you read Caps????


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Elaine on December 04, 2008, 06:59:39 PM
Ok, Ive been lurking and reading. I would just like to ask one question to Kermit and Hotshot.
So do you think part of natalee WAS found in that cage. Because it is sure sounding like that is what you are both saying, just in different ways. TIA

According to the experts, YES she was in the cage.



Thanks Kermit!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Lifesong on December 04, 2008, 07:06:36 PM
Ok, Ive been lurking and reading. I would just like to ask one question to Kermit and Hotshot.
So do you think part of natalee WAS found in that cage. Because it is sure sounding like that is what you are both saying, just in different ways. TIA

According to the experts, YES she was in the cage.




Then it is my most fervent prayer that she was surreptiously retrieved and brought home to a quiet, long overdue, private memorial service with the ones who knew and loved her, that 'dummy' evidence was placed in the cage for ALE to retrieve and hide/destroy while filmed by the ROV as part of a sting set up by the FBI, turned over to the state dept., now negotiating for the corruption to be exposed.

Best possible resolution at this point.  Let the ones who covered up uncover and all involved in both the crimes and coverups be brought to justice.

That's my prayer.  It's not at all what I believe to be true.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Keepthefaith on December 04, 2008, 07:06:42 PM
Ok, Ive been lurking and reading. I would just like to ask one question to Kermit and Hotshot.
So do you think part of natalee WAS found in that cage. Because it is sure sounding like that is what you are both saying, just in different ways. TIA

According to the experts, YES she was in the cage.




Thank you for answering so many questions when one is raised!I don't think a Monkey can ask for anything more. ::MonkeyWink::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: johan555 on December 04, 2008, 07:06:47 PM
Kermit
Are the underwater photos made by proffesionals ?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Kermit on December 04, 2008, 07:07:03 PM

Just what are you trying to prove?  I am NOT going another round with you, not here.  This is not the place for it, and it is disrespectable to Natalee and her family.  If anyone made all of this come out, I hate to say it, but it was Jorans BIG mouth.  Your trying to disprove people here is starting to make alto of people sick, I have gotten numerous emails about it.  Stop while SM is still ahead.  You are making something out of nothing.  If you want pics, I'll give you some pics to show everyone that Mr. Silvetti didn't need any extra's to try and live.  His stocks may have dropped, but in no means is this man wasting away.  Leave these poor people alone.  There must have been a million pics taken those few months, and your crying over a few that didn't make it to the FBI?  I am sure there have been alot more pics that did make it to them.. It's not about ((edit)), its about Natalee.

Hotshot ... either you believe these are Kyle's words in emails to Kermit or you do not.  If they are Kyle's words ... I wish he would afford those who supported the search effort in prayer and monies an explanation.  If they are not ... I wish Kyle would refute them.

Janet

<snipped>

______



Janet don't get mad at me!!! I'll send ya another UPS guy if ya don't!! I real good one!!! lol

I sent Kyle an IM and advised he not respond. I don't think the guy can win this one and I know darned well he would be attacked. Now...my word is not going to get him not to post!!! lol Don't even know the guy!! But I supported him in his decision to just let it rest.

Lou ... no thanks but ... cold cash would suffice.

The last two UPS guys you sent me were useless.  I placed a table in the closet where I was holding them hostage and ... set up the Scrabble board and ... they implied rather die than submit to a game with me.  I gave up and set them free.

 ::MonkeyWaa::

Lou ... this issue has upset me very much.  I have posted with Kermit since the getgo and ... in spite of our differences regarding some issues ... I have never known him/her to be dishonest.  Justice for Natalee Holloway has been his/her objective and ... his/her research that translates into countless hours he has shared with Natalee forums attests to his/her dedication to the cause.

Also ... much of what Kermit has revealed ... I was suspicious of at the beginning of the summer when I began reading contradictions in Kyle's posts.  I was in the minority on the forum in my suspicious ... so I bowed out for five months.

Lou ... so many of us Monkeys have a food planted on BOTH sides of the fence regarding this topic and ... it is important that there is confirmation one way or the other.

Janet

Thank you Janet.
"Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God." 1 John 4:1



ARUBA - GIVE US NATALEE BACK!




Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Kermit on December 04, 2008, 07:07:35 PM
Kermit
Are the underwater photos made by proffesionals ?


It was the ROV filming and screenshots made from that video tape.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Kermit on December 04, 2008, 07:08:58 PM
Ok, Ive been lurking and reading. I would just like to ask one question to Kermit and Hotshot.
So do you think part of natalee WAS found in that cage. Because it is sure sounding like that is what you are both saying, just in different ways. TIA

According to the experts, YES she was in the cage.




Thank you for answering so many questions when one is raised!I don't think a Monkey can ask for anything more. ::MonkeyWink::

You are most welcome.

I felt that everyone deserved the respect that we all gave to Natalee and her family to know the truth.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: blah on December 04, 2008, 07:09:41 PM
Ok, Ive been lurking and reading. I would just like to ask one question to Kermit and Hotshot.
So do you think part of natalee WAS found in that cage. Because it is sure sounding like that is what you are both saying, just in different ways. TIA

According to the experts, YES she was in the cage.




What experts??


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Magnolia on December 04, 2008, 07:14:07 PM
Ok, Ive been lurking and reading. I would just like to ask one question to Kermit and Hotshot.
So do you think part of natalee WAS found in that cage. Because it is sure sounding like that is what you are both saying, just in different ways. TIA

According to the experts, YES she was in the cage.







You are a good frog and I appreciate you very much.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: SS on December 04, 2008, 07:15:57 PM
Ok, Ive been lurking and reading. I would just like to ask one question to Kermit and Hotshot.
So do you think part of natalee WAS found in that cage. Because it is sure sounding like that is what you are both saying, just in different ways. TIA

According to the experts, YES she was in the cage.







Kermit - can you please tell us who the experts are?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Buckeye on December 04, 2008, 07:20:52 PM
A few thoughts:

Anna: Enjoyed the review of the police union postings.  My favorite was their threatening to strike , if inspector Angela was brought over to review them.  I believe there is a prosecutor Angela, on Aruba currently.

Janet: Don't forget Beth's comment regarding Pesc??? (The AHATA guy that wound up in Palm Beach) shaking his head yes regarding a cover up.

EuroRobert and Caesu: Thanks so much for the Dutch postings and political updates.

When Paulus was discussed, regarding talking with the boys, in the "first few days", he discussed the law regarding criminal charges.  There is a Dutch phrase that starts with a W...I forget...but...if your kid only dropped a girl, at the beach, I doubt the discussion would be regarding the "W" Dutch word.

I know noone and don't know who I believe or what my final opinion is...but IIRC, Kermit never said he was posting Beth's emails.  I never read anything about Beth until someone accused Kermit.  Beth's name was brought up by the accuser.  Might want to be more careful.

Don't know what I think of Silvetti, et al...however:
Tax laws do not permit writing off of time.  Expenses can be written off when donated to a legal non profit (needs a special number.. 503c??)...I suppose the expenses could have been written as a donation to TES, but not just to search for Natalee.  Now, if there could also be a business use of the ship, etc, I believe the expenses could be written off as unreimbursed business expenses.  Tax law is sticky.  Personally, I would attempt to establish a "business" reason for the trip to try and recoup expenses...even if my main purpose was "charitable"...but that's me...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Anna on December 04, 2008, 07:20:53 PM
I thought the only information we ever had from any experts was that the fabric didn't match Natalee's blouse.


Quote:









Press release

Postbus 1163, Oranjestad, Aruba
Havenstraat 2
Oranjestad
Aruba

To All media
From The Public Prosecutor’s Office
Date February 26, 2007

Pages 1

Cloth found in crab trap not a match with sample of blouse Holloway, according to FBI Laboratory.

The Prosecutors’ Office of Aruba has received the results of the comparison tests done by the FBI Laboratory in the United States of America on clothing, cloth or a textile of some type recovered in January 2008 by an Aruban dive team inside a crab trap in about 90 feet of water, off the coast of Aruba. The Aruban dive team was directed to the crab trap by the crew of the vessel “Persistence” that is conducting a sea search looking for the body of Natalee Holloway. The Persistence is searching for a crab trap based on the story that the body of Natalee Holloway was disposed of and placed in a similar device.

The Aruban Police requested the FBI Laboratory to process the cloth, because the Laboratory already had a sample of the exact match of the type of material of Natalee Holloway’s blouse. The FBI Laboratory received that material on the 22nd of January 2008.

On the 25th of February 2008, the Prosecutors’ Office received the official report from the FBI Laboratory that showed that the two materials were not a match.


FBI Says Fabrics Found in Aruban Crab Trap Not From Holloway
Tuesday, February 26, 2008

ORANJESTAD, Aruba  —  An FBI analysis of fabric collected from a crab trap off Aruba showed the material did not match clothing worn by missing American Natalee Holloway, prosecutors said Tuesday.

The fabric was recovered in January by divers in about 90 feet of water as they searched for the body of the missing woman, the Aruban public prosecutor's office said in a statement.

Click here for photos from the case.

The FBI compared the material to a blouse worn by Holloway, who was 18 when she disappeared on the final night of a high school graduation trip to the Dutch Caribbean island in May 2005. The results "showed that the two materials were not a match," the statement said.

Special Agent Ann Todd, a spokeswoman for the FBI Laboratory in Quantico, Va., said the lab could not comment on the case.

Holloway, of Mountain Brook, Ala., was last seen leaving a bar in the Aruban capital of Oranjestad with a Dutch college student and two Surinamese brothers. Extensive searches have found no trace of her.

Earlier this month, judges rejected an attempt to arrest the Dutch student, Joran Van der Sloot, for a third time in her disappearance. He was released due to insufficient evidence the first two times he was arrested.

Aruban prosecutors had sought to detain him based on hidden-camera recordings captured by a Dutch TV crime show. In the video, Van der Sloot said Holloway collapsed on the beach after they left the bar and he called a friend to dump her body at sea.

Van der Sloot has said he was lying when he made those statement and insists he had no involvement in her death.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,332848,00.html


Fabric found in Aruban crab trap doesn't match Holloway's clothing
Posted by Birmingham News February 26, 2008 3:26 PM

Fabric found in a crab trap off the Aruban coast doesn't match a blouse worn by Natalee Holloway when she disappeared, officials said today.

The fabric was recovered by a dive crew last month and tested by the FBI, which was holding fabric samples matching Holloway's top, according to a release from the Aruban prosecutor's office.

Holloway, then 18, disappeared in May of 2005 on a trip to Aruba with fellow graduates of Mountain Brook High School. Soon afterward, her family circulated a picture of her taken at the beach with friends on her last night wearing a blue, green and white halter top.

The news is just the latest blow to what had been a renewed effort to solve the case. Earlier this month, a Dutch appeals court refused to let Aruban prosecutors re-arrest their chief suspect on the basis of an undercover television video. Joran van der Sloot had told a friend in the video that he watched Holloway die on the beach and asked a friend to dispose of her body in the water.

Hannah Wolfson
http://blog.al.com/spotnews/2008/02/fabric_found_in_aruban_crab_tr.html


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: johan555 on December 04, 2008, 07:20:56 PM
Kermit
I do not understand the following:
Because you told that someone want to sell the pics to a magazine, but i think that is impossible
I've seen the underwater photos and  they are terrible ,low resolution and unsharp  etc .
Maybe they have some with a better quality ,do you have them and can you post them ?

Proffesional photographers use always a special (PS)correction program  for underwater pics .

it works like this :
(http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh25/johan555/Water-pics.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Tamikosmom on December 04, 2008, 07:25:41 PM

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub5/RuthDijkhoff.jpg)

So this lady died the day after Rene Heingyn (sp?).  He was the guy who had his throat slit open and was dumped in the cemetary near a police station.  Hmm.


Ruth Gisela Dijkhoff-Holtmann was the bank teller who served Paulus van der Sloot on the day of the morning when Natalee Holloway went missing and .... 2 1/2 weeks later she was dead.

This wannabe detective can speculate but ... confirmation would be appreciated.

Janet


Janet..I hate to see you suffering...I don't see anything here that tells me Ruth was a bank teller...

It may not even be the same Ruth!

Paulus 6/23 PV

To your question whether I went to the bank without stopping or going anywhere else, I can state the following. I at least cannot
remember having been anywhere else. I think I went directly to the bank. At the bank I talked to Ruth DIJKHOFF. At the bank I deposited the money that Joran said that he had won in the “Free Tournament in the Holiday Inn” on the 29th of May 2005. It was approximately 500 Aruban guilders. Joran had given me 100 guilders because he had taken over my place in the
tournament.

After depositing the money I went home. I cannot exactly remember what time it was when I got home. I think it was 16.15 hours. According to me both Rita and Joran where at home. Whether Valentijn and Sebastian where also there that Monday I cannot remember anymore because Valentijn and Sebastian quite often went over to a friends house during that time-period.


Mum ... I am not suffering.  I am frustrated and angry that Beth and Jug comprehended the truth regarding the the coverup that has been denying Natalee justice from the getgo yet ... there was nothing they could do but keep on keeping on.

Janet

++++

Beth Holloway
LOVING NATALEE

Page 227
- Jug has supported me through this entire nightmare.  And we have done everything we can


'Scarborough Country' for July 14
updated 8:45 a.m. PT, Fri., July. 15, 2005


TWITTY:  ……. Beth and I have been through this emotional roller coaster. And all we want is Natalee, whether she's alive or dead. We want to bring her back to the United States, and we'll leave and they can do whatever they want to do.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8551824/


'Rita Cosby Live & Direct' for December 1
updated 7:37 a.m. PT, Fri., Dec. 2, 2005


BETH HOLLOWAY TWITTY, NATALEE HOLLOWAY'S MOTHER: Well, of course, it's very frustrating. You know, the entire investigation, that's all we've had is frustration coming out of the officials from Aruba.  You know, evidence—you know when evidence is gathered and lost or evidence is never gathered when it's supposed to be, just (INAUDIBLE) the primary residence of Paulus Van Der Sloot was never searched —I mean, you know, it just can't help but raise all the questions of—and leave us frustrated.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10295536/


'Scarborough Country' for August 11
updated 6:33 a.m. PT, Fri., Aug. 12, 2005


JUG TWITTY, STEPFATHER OF NATALEE HOLLOWAY: ... but when they take my statement 33 days later, and they take the other guys‘ statements that were with me and ladies that were with me, you know, like 19 days later, it‘s like they didn‘t want to find the truth.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8925176/


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Buckeye on December 04, 2008, 07:27:30 PM
Anna

I found it interesting that the FBI made their comment Feb. 26th and the Persistence suddenly left.  I thought they were maybe surprised that the FBI didn't have more material to comment on.  Maybe they figured out Aruba played them and didn't send samples.  :smt102


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Keepthefaith on December 04, 2008, 07:32:02 PM
Anna

I found it interesting that the FBI made their comment Feb. 26th and the Persistence suddenly left.  I thought they were maybe surprised that the FBI didn't have more material to comment on.  Maybe they figured out Aruba played them and didn't send samples.  :smt102


When did they leave??March 8th??


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: texasmom on December 04, 2008, 07:34:33 PM
Ok, Ive been lurking and reading. I would just like to ask one question to Kermit and Hotshot.
So do you think part of natalee WAS found in that cage. Because it is sure sounding like that is what you are both saying, just in different ways. TIA

According to the experts, YES she was in the cage.


Thank you for answering so many questions when one is raised!I don't think a Monkey can ask for anything more. ::MonkeyWink::

You are most welcome.

I felt that everyone deserved the respect that we all gave to Natalee and her family to know the truth.



Thank you Kermit, from the bottom of my heart.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Anna on December 04, 2008, 07:35:05 PM
Anna

I found it interesting that the FBI made their comment Feb. 26th and the Persistence suddenly left.  I thought they were maybe surprised that the FBI didn't have more material to comment on.  Maybe they figured out Aruba played them and didn't send samples.  :smt102

Buckeye,
I remember being surprised they left so abruptly as we were trying to raise funds but other than that, I don't know what to think of any of this.

Just waiting and watching and reading and hoping some sense will come of it all because right now, there are too many possibilities and not enough solid evidence.

It does seem to me that some of all of it could be true. 

And I still think that looks just like a service cap in the cage instead of a skirt.  I wonder whose it is and why it was put in there.  Blackmail maybe?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: MumInOhio on December 04, 2008, 07:35:29 PM

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub5/RuthDijkhoff.jpg)

So this lady died the day after Rene Heingyn (sp?).  He was the guy who had his throat slit open and was dumped in the cemetary near a police station.  Hmm.


Ruth Gisela Dijkhoff-Holtmann was the bank teller who served Paulus van der Sloot on the day of the morning when Natalee Holloway went missing and .... 2 1/2 weeks later she was dead.

This wannabe detective can speculate but ... confirmation would be appreciated.

Janet


Janet..I hate to see you suffering...I don't see anything here that tells me Ruth was a bank teller...

It may not even be the same Ruth!

Paulus 6/23 PV

To your question whether I went to the bank without stopping or going anywhere else, I can state the following. I at least cannot
remember having been anywhere else. I think I went directly to the bank. At the bank I talked to Ruth DIJKHOFF. At the bank I deposited the money that Joran said that he had won in the “Free Tournament in the Holiday Inn” on the 29th of May 2005. It was approximately 500 Aruban guilders. Joran had given me 100 guilders because he had taken over my place in the
tournament.

After depositing the money I went home. I cannot exactly remember what time it was when I got home. I think it was 16.15 hours. According to me both Rita and Joran where at home. Whether Valentijn and Sebastian where also there that Monday I cannot remember anymore because Valentijn and Sebastian quite often went over to a friends house during that time-period.


Mum ... I am not suffering.  I am frustrated and angry that Beth and Jug comprehended the truth regarding the the coverup that has been denying Natalee justice from the getgo yet ... there was nothing they could do but keep on keeping on.

Janet

++++

Beth Holloway
LOVING NATALEE

Page 227
- Jug has supported me through this entire nightmare.  And we have done everything we can


'Scarborough Country' for July 14
updated 8:45 a.m. PT, Fri., July. 15, 2005


TWITTY:  ……. Beth and I have been through this emotional roller coaster. And all we want is Natalee, whether she's alive or dead. We want to bring her back to the United States, and we'll leave and they can do whatever they want to do.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8551824/


'Rita Cosby Live & Direct' for December 1
updated 7:37 a.m. PT, Fri., Dec. 2, 2005


BETH HOLLOWAY TWITTY, NATALEE HOLLOWAY'S MOTHER: Well, of course, it's very frustrating. You know, the entire investigation, that's all we've had is frustration coming out of the officials from Aruba.  You know, evidence—you know when evidence is gathered and lost or evidence is never gathered when it's supposed to be, just (INAUDIBLE) the primary residence of Paulus Van Der Sloot was never searched —I mean, you know, it just can't help but raise all the questions of—and leave us frustrated.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10295536/


'Scarborough Country' for August 11
updated 6:33 a.m. PT, Fri., Aug. 12, 2005


JUG TWITTY, STEPFATHER OF NATALEE HOLLOWAY: ... but when they take my statement 33 days later, and they take the other guys‘ statements that were with me and ladies that were with me, you know, like 19 days later, it‘s like they didn‘t want to find the truth.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8925176/


I think we are all frustrated and angry about the treatment the Family received.

Not sure if there is any more info out there on Ruth, Janet, sorry.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: MumInOhio on December 04, 2008, 07:38:11 PM
Anna

I found it interesting that the FBI made their comment Feb. 26th and the Persistence suddenly left.  I thought they were maybe surprised that the FBI didn't have more material to comment on.  Maybe they figured out Aruba played them and didn't send samples.  :smt102


When did they leave??March 8th??


Keepthefaith...March 2nd...I have a timeline going here in Blonde's seach thread...will edit it in a couple of days

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4145.80


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Blue Moon on December 04, 2008, 07:39:01 PM
Hotshot
 Reply #258 on: November 21, 2008, 10:53:44 PM »
CAPS knows Silvetti from meI was the one who told CAPS to go to the ship and wait for John.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4159.240

Hotshot
Reply #298 on: November 27, 2008, 11:57:50 AM »
 the persistence did tape who and what took all the baggies.  
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.280


 Kyle said: I have not given anything to the FBI since the pictures and statements from Dec 29th


Just what are you trying to prove?  I am NOT going another round with you, not here.  This is not the place for it, and it is disrespectable to Natalee and her family.  If anyone made all of this come out, I hate to say it, but it was Jorans BIG mouth.  Your trying to disprove people here is starting to make alto of people sick, I have gotten numerous emails about it.  Stop while SM is still ahead.  You are making something out of nothing.  If you want pics, I'll give you some pics to show everyone that Mr. Silvetti didn't need any extra's to try and live.  His stocks may have dropped, but in no means is this man wasting away.  Leave these poor people alone.  There must have been a million pics taken those few months, and your crying over a few that didn't make it to the FBI?  I am sure there have been alot more pics that did make it to them.. It's not about {{edit}} its about Natalee.




Hotshot - do you know John Silvetti personally?

WTF?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Hotshot on December 04, 2008, 07:42:20 PM
Quote
Hotshot to Kyle:
 Hi there, and good to see you here at the SM site.  It was me who sent that cryptic message to your blog, sorry about all that.  Its just one of the things that we dealt with here early on in the case.  It looked to be someone in the know.  You can take it down if you wish, I just thought it might be of some help.  But once again, I praise the work you guys are doing, and wish I could be there myself to help with the search.  My prayers are with all of you for a great outcome.  Hey, remember, there really are pirates out there!
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2429.msg315194#msg315194

Hotshot
 Reply #258 on: November 21, 2008, 10:53:44 PM »
CAPS knows Silvetti from Me i was the one who told CAPS to go to the ship and wait for John.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4159.240



Hotshot -
 You guys are going to look really silly in the end for downing the people like silvetti, and Kyle, and CAPS.

BUT then
Hotshot agrees with what Kermit has posted:
the persistence did tape who and what took all the baggies.  
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.280


Kyle stated: "John is not a believer in the trap. He took ALE's word as gospel that it wasn't case related, yet never studied the videos or bothered to inquire further."
Yes the message written to him was about the dunes, it had nothing to do with anything here.
Yes, I did get Caps to go down and try to get help for the Monserat Pond.
No John does not believe that there is remains in the cage.  You have to remember something here, it was Johns money who got the Persistence there, he may have been on the ship, but he was NOT one of the workers, sort to speak.  I have spoken to John yes.  
Yes, I believe some of Kermits stuff, but not all.  I don't believe posting others emails are necessary to get things across, that is just not proper.  I don't believe in her gloating over nothing.  And I don't give a rats butt as to what Kyle was bragging about.  I am sure the FBI got all of what they needed and more.  Not that they can do anything anyway, and we all know this already.  It's been hashed over way too many times here.  
Yes, I believe there are some remains in that cage.
Can I discuss the other stuff ?  I don't dare to.  It is what someone has trusted me with, and the last time I did that, not only did people here not believe me, but I got thrown out.  That person in time will tell all, and not until things are in place to talk about it.  However the time does look like its coming soon, and it does look like the Government may crumble, as it should after what we all know happened with the cover up.  
Kermit, as I said before, I am not going to Duke it out with you here, my email is kathee1963@yahoo.com  you can do it in emails if you wish.  as for this
Today, she agrees that kermit is telling the truth.
Because, Kermit IS telling you the truth.
I wouldn't go that far.  You could have done things in a more professional manner.  After all, you are that correct?  A Professional?
There are things that right now are better off being left unsaid, and you know this, I am sure. Just sit back and let this thing roll, it's all starting to happen.  Relax.  I refuse to believe that Kyle is a bad person.  I refuse to believe John, Schafer, and Tim are bad people.  And i would sure hate to have them read what you have posted here about them.  I personally have met with Tim, and Schafer way back in Jan of 2006 back when they were trying to get things going with the Persistence, and getting the OK to go to Aruban waters.  It was several of us that met with them.  So its not like they lost their monies back in 2006 and waited till almost 2008 to scan for oil, etc....  They were waiting to get the OK from Aruba.  And we all know how long they can take.  Schafer is a Seaman, John is not.  Tim is not, he helps in anyway he can to search for the missing, and if that means on a ship, then so be it.  Either way here, it all comes down to one girl, and that is Natalee, they all came together for Natalee.  Not themselves.  There is always one bad apple in a group, I am not saying that "there was", but IF pics were truly going to be sold for his own purpose "other then the film crew that were on the boat", then shame on him.  I just really don't want to think that is true.  


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Nut44x4 on December 04, 2008, 07:45:39 PM
Would Jossy know if Ruth ever worked at the bank??



Ruth Dijkhoff had already died when paulus gave this information to the police, so he knew she could neither confirm or deny it
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-backroom/1617741/posts?page=3618

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Was just doing a search on Ruth here@ SM......
QUOTES were reposted by msmarple
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=188.200

Florida posted:

Quote
RUTH DIJKHOFF-HOLTMAN (Holtman is her maiden name)

MARGARITHA WERLEMAN e.v. DIJKHOFF (known as Rita)
(Dijkhoff is her maiden name...
FWIW: Werleman's own the Lighthouse Restaurant and hotels)

Also by Florida:

Quote
Adding: Roberto Dijkhoff is the Bank Manager
Could Ruth Dijkhoff work at the bank?
Did Paulus need to withdraw "big" or needed a loan?


In response to a query by Altruist , Leslie posted:

Quote
Yes, PVDS used Ruth Dijkhoff's name as a witness to his afternoon banking story, but we have no proof that it happened. There is no declaration from this woman and on June 18, 2005 a Ruth Gisela Dijkhoff-Holtmann died at the age of 50. Was her death from an illness, an accident, foul play or suicide? PVDS's witness statement from June 18th does not mention the banking story or this woman, but his June 23rd suspect statement does. Notice the dates. I am inclined to believe the woman who died was the same one who Paul named and that he knew she could never rebute his story.

MARGARITHA WERLEMAN e.v. DIJKHOFF (known as Rita) was the long-time VDS "maid" who was present at the house on May 30, 2005. Because of my ignorance of the Aruban naming customs, I don't know what Rita or Ruth's maiden names were or if they were related. Of course, Paul VDS would know if they were sisiters or sisters-in-law. Dijkhoff is a common name in Aruba. Another interesting fact re: the death of Ruth Dijkhoff is that her funeral arrangements were handled by the funeral home that Yolanda Wever co-owns and her funeral was in Germany. Did her body or her ashes go to Germany? Did that VDS maid go to the funeral in Germany and is that why her declaration to the polis was delayed? Now this young man, named Dijkhoff, is guilty of killing his infant daughter and it seems that drugs played a part in this crime.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Elaine on December 04, 2008, 07:52:29 PM
One last thing then i must finish my dinner which is already late lol. If Joran was getting scared that Natalee was found, it sure explains his latest stunt to try and say he sold Natalee to someone else. That way he can say that the guy he gave her to must have hurt her and put her body in the ocean, not him or his "daury."


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Blue Moon on December 04, 2008, 07:53:29 PM

Just what are you trying to prove?  I am NOT going another round with you, not here.  This is not the place for it, and it is disrespectable to Natalee and her family.  If anyone made all of this come out, I hate to say it, but it was Jorans BIG mouth.  Your trying to disprove people here is starting to make alto of people sick, I have gotten numerous emails about it.  Stop while SM is still ahead.  You are making something out of nothing.  If you want pics, I'll give you some pics to show everyone that Mr. Silvetti didn't need any extra's to try and live.  His stocks may have dropped, but in no means is this man wasting away.  Leave these poor people alone.  There must have been a million pics taken those few months, and your crying over a few that didn't make it to the FBI?  I am sure there have been alot more pics that did make it to them.. It's not about {{edit}], its about Natalee.

Hotshot ... either you believe these are Kyle's words in emails to Kermit or you do not.  If they are Kyle's words ... I wish he would afford those who supported the search effort in prayer and monies an explanation.  If they are not ... I wish Kyle would refute them.

Janet

<snipped>

______



Janet don't get mad at me!!! I'll send ya another UPS guy if ya don't!! I real good one!!! lol

I sent Kyle an IM and advised he not respond. I don't think the guy can win this one and I know darned well he would be attacked. Now...my word is not going to get him not to post!!! lol Don't even know the guy!! But I supported him in his decision to just let it rest.

Lou ... no thanks but ... cold cash would suffice.

The last two UPS guys you sent me were useless.  I placed a table in the closet where I was holding them hostage and ... set up the Scrabble board and ... they implied rather die than submit to a game with me.  I gave up and set them free.

 ::MonkeyWaa::

Lou ... this issue has upset me very much.  I have posted with Kermit since the getgo and ... in spite of our differences regarding some issues ... I have never known him/her to be dishonest.  Justice for Natalee Holloway has been his/her objective and ... his/her research that translates into countless hours he has shared with Natalee forums attests to his/her dedication to the cause.

Also ... much of what Kermit has revealed ... I was suspicious of at the beginning of the summer when I began reading contradictions in Kyle's posts.  I was in the minority on the forum in my suspicious ... so I bowed out for five months.

Lou ... so many of us Monkeys have a food planted on BOTH sides of the fence regarding this topic and ... it is important that there is confirmation one way or the other.

Janet

Thank you Janet.
"Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God." 1 John 4:1



ARUBA - GIVE US NATALEE BACK!




OMG, they did NOT return her and who has the tapes of this now?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: johan555 on December 04, 2008, 07:54:45 PM
Jan was on fox news this evening ha ha  ::MonkeyHaHa::

(http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh25/johan555/chiefcopy.jpg?t=1228438401)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Tamikosmom on December 04, 2008, 07:54:50 PM
The following is the first updated compilation of quotes derived from emails communication between Kermit and Kyle.

Janet
________

Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #779 11/24/08 -
« Reply #532 on: November 25, 2008, 07:06:45 PM »


From Kyle: march 18, 2008:  If you want, you can get Red from SM off my back. I really don't like that guy. He thinks he knows what's going on but doesn't have a clue. I first saw the pics on the SM home page and fired off an email to Red believing that he would be understanding and help provide answers. I quickly found out what happened on my own and dealt with it. I could not believe his response.

~Kyle

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4179.msg557660#msg557660


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #779 11/24/08 -
« Reply #532 on: November 25, 2008, 07:06:45 PM »


From Kyle: I have not given anything to the FBI since the pictures and statements from Dec 29th

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4179.msg557660#msg557660


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #779 11/24/08 -
« Reply #532 on: November 25, 2008, 07:06:45 PM »


From Kyle: None of us gave any statements to the authorities after the 29th. It's possible John Silvetti did, because he was the only one conversing with them after Jan 7th.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4179.msg557660#msg557660


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #779 11/24/08 -
« Reply #532 on: November 25, 2008, 07:06:45 PM »


From Kyle: May 8, 2008: "I've talked with Peter Shouten numerous times back in February. He hasn't seen anything but knows about the blue fabrics. DeVries and Endemol was interested in purchasing the ROV footage and I was working between them, ABC, and CBS to strike a deal."

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4179.msg557660#msg557660


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #888 on: Today at 02:43:35 AM »


Jan. 7th picture Kyle said: "In case it isn't clear.. notice the blue denim-like fabric”

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564718#msg564718


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #902 on: Today at 03:09:00 AM »


Kyle said: "The Aruban divers were on the police boat, dove from their boat, and returned to their boat."

Kyle said: "They were immediately whisked away by the Aruban police and not seen of again by us on the 7th"

Kyle said: " John stood back and waited and worked with the Aruban Polis"

Kyle said: "John definitely believed the Arubans at their every word"

Kyle said: "John didn't want Tim Miller on board the Persistence because he said Tim wasn't necessary any more and was a liability"

Kyle said: "John told me then he didn't want to hear me ever mention the trap again."

June 10, 2008 = Kyle states: “He's [John Silvetti] seriously making plans to open an Aruba office so he can conduct business easier in S. America and that would allow him to do that."

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564763#msg564763


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #903 on: Today at 03:12:23 AM »


Kyle said: "Schafer is sue crazy."

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564766;topicseen#msg564766


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #897 on: Today at 03:02:28 AM »


Kyle: “I did not feel the same and we had a major difference in opinion. He [John Silvetti] was the one who never pressed ALE to be completely open with us with the trap evidence. I would have forced them to. However, John was the one paying my invoices so I was forced to sit back and hope for the best.”

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564753;topicseen#msg564753


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #883 on: Today at 02:39:52 AM »


Kyle said: " We all know it wasn't a blouse, but I believe they were sent some piece of fabric other than the fabric found inside the trap.”

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564707#msg564707


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #896 on: Today at 03:00:21 AM »


Kyle said: "The blue fabric was found right where the skirt is pictured. If it isn't her, it will forever haunt me as a major cosmic WTF.”

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564748;topicseen#msg564748


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #896 on: Today at 03:00:21 AM »


Kyle said: "We're being fed misinformation to keep us searching and out of their way while they cover their asses, destroy evidence, cover their tracks, and keep us out at sea and away from the trap."

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564748;topicseen#msg564748


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #888 on: Today at 02:43:35 AM »


Jan. 7th picture Kyle said: "In case it isn't clear.. notice the blue denim-like fabric”

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564718#msg564718


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #779 11/24/08 -
« Reply #532 on: Today at 07:06:45 PM »


From Kyle: May 8, 2008: "I've talked with Peter Shouten numerous times back in February. He hasn't seen anything but knows about the blue fabrics. DeVries and Endemol was interested in purchasing the ROV footage and I was working between them, ABC, and CBS to strike a deal."

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4179.msg557660#msg557660


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #882 on: Today at 02:36:28 AM »


Kyle said: "Louis is currently working with someone who I do not know to put together some documentary on the case, the way it was handled, and what happened during the search. I learned this from Tim T. yesterday. Louis was sold on the idea that it will make him a lot of money.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564701;topicseen#msg564701


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #802 on: December 02, 2008, 05:16:26 PM »


Kyle said: “The portion of the discolored blue fabric was presumably on the bottom of the fabric. In my opinion this discoloration is not another type of fabric, but rather biological staining or discoloration from biological growth caused from a high organic carbon content and decay. Basically, during decay a biological mat will form around the organics from remains. This is what I believe it is on the bottom of the fabric.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564125;topicseen#msg564125


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #779 11/24/08 -
« Reply #642 on: November 25, 2008, 10:12:27 PM »


May 8, 2008 = from Kyle: John Silvetti told me today that he may be returning to Aruba very soon for a few days.

May 19, 2008 = from Kyle:
"I couldn't get the logs from the Persistence. All things "Holloway" were stripped from the boat once it got back to Louisiana

JUNE 10, 2008 = from Kyle:
He's [John Silvetti] seriously making plans to open an Aruba office so he can conduct business easier in S. America and that would allow him to do that.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4179.msg557914;topicseen#msg557914


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #779 11/24/08 -
« Reply #635 on: November 25, 2008, 10:06:58 PM »


from Kyle: "It was confirmed by the FBI that they received a fabric sample send by Richardson and that it wasn't a match to Natalee's blouse. I think the video can prove or disprove whatever the FBI was sent was the same object or not. I strongly believe it's blue denim. Everyone I show thinks the same thing without being prompted (including senior ABC execs).

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4179.msg557906;topicseen#msg557906


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
« Reply #663 on: Today at 09:55:44 PM »


Kyle stated: "John is not a believer in the trap. He took ALE's word as gospel that it wasn't case related, yet never studied the videos or bothered to inquire further."

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4186.msg566856;topicseen#msg566856


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: truthseeker2 on December 04, 2008, 07:57:39 PM
One last thing then i must finish my dinner which is already late lol. If Joran was getting scared that Natalee was found, it sure explains his latest stunt to try and say he sold Natalee to someone else. That way he can say that the guy he gave her to must have hurt her and put her body in the ocean, not him or his "daury."

I was thinking the same thing until I remembered that he said his 'I sold Natalee' story was a lie.  Why do that?  Why implicate his father in a coverup?  Is it as simple as some people are saying?  Did Joran concoct those phone calls and agree to an interview, where he tells a wild story, so he could get some money?

I wonder if he told Greta one of those phone calls to his father was in January...right about the time the fish trap came into the picture.  Joran's actions are very odd.  But, his actions have been odd from the start.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Magnolia on December 04, 2008, 07:58:46 PM

Just what are you trying to prove?  I am NOT going another round with you, not here.  This is not the place for it, and it is disrespectable to Natalee and her family.  If anyone made all of this come out, I hate to say it, but it was Jorans BIG mouth.  Your trying to disprove people here is starting to make alto of people sick, I have gotten numerous emails about it.  Stop while SM is still ahead.  You are making something out of nothing.  If you want pics, I'll give you some pics to show everyone that Mr. Silvetti didn't need any extra's to try and live.  His stocks may have dropped, but in no means is this man wasting away.  Leave these poor people alone.  There must have been a million pics taken those few months, and your crying over a few that didn't make it to the FBI?  I am sure there have been alot more pics that did make it to them.. It's not about {{edit}}, its about Natalee.

Hotshot ... either you believe these are Kyle's words in emails to Kermit or you do not.  If they are Kyle's words ... I wish he would afford those who supported the search effort in prayer and monies an explanation.  If they are not ... I wish Kyle would refute them.

Janet

<snipped>

______



Janet don't get mad at me!!! I'll send ya another UPS guy if ya don't!! I real good one!!! lol

I sent Kyle an IM and advised he not respond. I don't think the guy can win this one and I know darned well he would be attacked. Now...my word is not going to get him not to post!!! lol Don't even know the guy!! But I supported him in his decision to just let it rest.

Lou ... no thanks but ... cold cash would suffice.

The last two UPS guys you sent me were useless.  I placed a table in the closet where I was holding them hostage and ... set up the Scrabble board and ... they implied rather die than submit to a game with me.  I gave up and set them free.

 ::MonkeyWaa::

Lou ... this issue has upset me very much.  I have posted with Kermit since the getgo and ... in spite of our differences regarding some issues ... I have never known him/her to be dishonest.  Justice for Natalee Holloway has been his/her objective and ... his/her research that translates into countless hours he has shared with Natalee forums attests to his/her dedication to the cause.

Also ... much of what Kermit has revealed ... I was suspicious of at the beginning of the summer when I began reading contradictions in Kyle's posts.  I was in the minority on the forum in my suspicious ... so I bowed out for five months.

Lou ... so many of us Monkeys have a food planted on BOTH sides of the fence regarding this topic and ... it is important that there is confirmation one way or the other.

Janet

Thank you Janet.
"Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God." 1 John 4:1



ARUBA - GIVE US NATALEE BACK!




OMG, they did NOT return her and who has the tapes of this now?

From Kyle's emails to Kermit, it sounds to me like Kyle does.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Anna on December 04, 2008, 08:03:59 PM
Is Dana's program tonight or tomorrow night?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: truthseeker2 on December 04, 2008, 08:06:02 PM
Is Dana's program tonight or tomorrow night?

From what Dana said last night he is doing his show in Friday night.  IIRC.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Blonde on December 04, 2008, 08:06:53 PM
Kermit
I do not understand the following:
Because you told that someone want to sell the pics to a magazine, but i think that is impossible
I've seen the underwater photos and  they are terrible ,low resolution and unsharp  etc .
Maybe they have some with a better quality ,do you have them and can you post them ?

Proffesional photographers use always a special (PS)correction program  for underwater pics .

it works like this :
(http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh25/johan555/Water-pics.jpg)


Please tell me johan ,what picture program you use I want it ::MonkeyWink::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Tamikosmom on December 04, 2008, 08:07:14 PM
Is Dana's program tonight or tomorrow night?

55 MINUTES FROM NOW!!!

Scared Monkeys Radio Daily Commentary - Thursday, December 4, 2008 - “The Babyfaced Gunman” Terrorist Has Truth Serum In His Future

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2008/12/04/scared-monkeys-radio-daily-commentary-thursday-december-4-2008-the-babyfaced-gunman-terrorist-has-truth-serum-in-his-future/


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Anna on December 04, 2008, 08:07:38 PM
Is Dana's program tonight or tomorrow night?

From what Dana said last night he is doing his show in Friday night.  IIRC.

Thanks, TS2!

Didn't want to miss it as I try to watch/listen to ALL coverage.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: truthseeker2 on December 04, 2008, 08:08:56 PM
Is Dana's program tonight or tomorrow night?

55 MINUTES FROM NOW!!!

Scared Monkeys Radio Daily Commentary - Thursday, December 4, 2008 - “The Babyfaced Gunman” Terrorist Has Truth Serum In His Future

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2008/12/04/scared-monkeys-radio-daily-commentary-thursday-december-4-2008-the-babyfaced-gunman-terrorist-has-truth-serum-in-his-future/


Well....I guess I did not remember correctly.   ::MonkeyCool::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: truthseeker2 on December 04, 2008, 08:09:39 PM
Is Dana's program tonight or tomorrow night?

From what Dana said last night he is doing his show in Friday night.  IIRC.

Thanks, TS2!

Didn't want to miss it as I try to watch/listen to ALL coverage.

Sorry, but apparently I was wrong.  Seems he is doing a show tonight.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Dana on December 04, 2008, 08:23:05 PM
Is Dana's program tonight or tomorrow night?

From what Dana said last night he is doing his show in Friday night.  IIRC.

Thanks, TS2!

Didn't want to miss it as I try to watch/listen to ALL coverage.

Sorry, but apparently I was wrong.  Seems he is doing a show tonight.

NO SHOW TONIGHT
NEXT LIVE SHOW IS FRIDAY @ 9pm et


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: truthseeker2 on December 04, 2008, 08:25:37 PM
 ::MonkeyLaugh:: ::MonkeyLaugh::  I was right.  Then I was wrong and found out that I was right! ::MonkeyLaugh:: ::MonkeyLaugh::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Anna on December 04, 2008, 08:28:53 PM
Is Dana's program tonight or tomorrow night?

From what Dana said last night he is doing his show in Friday night.  IIRC.

Thanks, TS2!

Didn't want to miss it as I try to watch/listen to ALL coverage.

Sorry, but apparently I was wrong.  Seems he is doing a show tonight.

NO SHOW TONIGHT
NEXT LIVE SHOW IS FRIDAY @ 9pm et



Are you sure?  I could have sworn Klaas said Thursday.   ::MonkeyLaugh::


Just kidding!   ::MonkeyCool:: ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyCool::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Keepthefaith on December 04, 2008, 08:29:14 PM
Quote
Hotshot to Kyle:
 Hi there, and good to see you here at the SM site.  It was me who sent that cryptic message to your blog, sorry about all that.  Its just one of the things that we dealt with here early on in the case.  It looked to be someone in the know.  You can take it down if you wish, I just thought it might be of some help.  But once again, I praise the work you guys are doing, and wish I could be there myself to help with the search.  My prayers are with all of you for a great outcome.  Hey, remember, there really are pirates out there!
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2429.msg315194#msg315194

Hotshot
 Reply #258 on: November 21, 2008, 10:53:44 PM »
CAPS knows Silvetti from Me i was the one who told CAPS to go to the ship and wait for John.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4159.240



Hotshot -
 You guys are going to look really silly in the end for downing the people like silvetti, and Kyle, and CAPS.

BUT then
Hotshot agrees with what Kermit has posted:
the persistence did tape who and what took all the baggies.  
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.280


Kyle stated: "John is not a believer in the trap. He took ALE's word as gospel that it wasn't case related, yet never studied the videos or bothered to inquire further."
Yes the message written to him was about the dunes, it had nothing to do with anything here.
Yes, I did get Caps to go down and try to get help for the Monserat Pond.
No John does not believe that there is remains in the cage.  You have to remember something here, it was Johns money who got the Persistence there, he may have been on the ship, but he was NOT one of the workers, sort to speak.   I have spoken to John yes.  
Yes, I believe some of Kermits stuff, but not all.  I don't believe posting others emails are necessary to get things across, that is just not proper.  I don't believe in her gloating over nothing.  And I don't give a rats butt as to what Kyle was bragging about.  I am sure the FBI got all of what they needed and more.  Not that they can do anything anyway, and we all know this already.  It's been hashed over way too many times here.  
Yes, I believe there are some remains in that cage.
Can I discuss the other stuff ?  I don't dare to.  It is what someone has trusted me with, and the last time I did that, not only did people here not believe me, but I got thrown out.  That person in time will tell all, and not until things are in place to talk about it.  However the time does look like its coming soon, and it does look like the Government may crumble, as it should after what we all know happened with the cover up.  
Kermit, as I said before, I am not going to Duke it out with you here, my email is kathee1963@yahoo.com  you can do it in emails if you wish.  as for this
Today, she agrees that kermit is telling the truth.
Because, Kermit IS telling you the truth.
I wouldn't go that far.  You could have done things in a more professional manner.  After all, you are that correct?  A Professional?
There are things that right now are better off being left unsaid, and you know this, I am sure. Just sit back and let this thing roll, it's all starting to happen.  Relax.  I refuse to believe that Kyle is a bad person.  I refuse to believe John, Schafer, and Tim are bad people.  And i would sure hate to have them read what you have posted here about them.  I personally have met with Tim, and Schafer way back in Jan of 2006 back when they were trying to get things going with the Persistence, and getting the OK to go to Aruban waters.  It was several of us that met with them.  So its not like they lost their monies back in 2006 and waited till almost 2008 to scan for oil, etc....  They were waiting to get the OK from Aruba.  And we all know how long they can take.  Schafer is a Seaman, John is not.  Tim is not, he helps in anyway he can to search for the missing, and if that means on a ship, then so be it.  Either way here, it all comes down to one girl, and that is Natalee, they all came together for Natalee.  Not themselves.  There is always one bad apple in a group, I am not saying that "there was", but IF pics were truly going to be sold for his own purpose "other then the film crew that were on the boat", then shame on him.  I just really don't want to think that is true.  


What leads silvetti to believe there are no remains??What leads you to believe they are remains??


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Dana on December 04, 2008, 08:29:34 PM
::MonkeyLaugh:: ::MonkeyLaugh::  I was right.  Then I was wrong and found out that I was right! ::MonkeyLaugh:: ::MonkeyLaugh::

   ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Dana on December 04, 2008, 08:30:28 PM
Is Dana's program tonight or tomorrow night?

From what Dana said last night he is doing his show in Friday night.  IIRC.

Thanks, TS2!

Didn't want to miss it as I try to watch/listen to ALL coverage.

Sorry, but apparently I was wrong.  Seems he is doing a show tonight.

NO SHOW TONIGHT
NEXT LIVE SHOW IS FRIDAY @ 9pm et



Are you sure?  I could have sworn Klaas said Thursday.   ::MonkeyLaugh::


Just kidding!   ::MonkeyCool:: ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyCool::

 ::MonkeyConfused:: ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Tamikosmom on December 04, 2008, 08:30:28 PM

OMG, they did NOT return her and who has the tapes of this now?

From Kyle's emails to Kermit, it sounds to me like Kyle does.

... or Kyle is not working alone.

 ::MonkeyConfused::

Janet
______


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #779 11/24/08 -
« Reply #532 on: Today at 07:06:45 PM »


From Kyle: May 8, 2008: "I've talked with Peter Shouten numerous times back in February. He hasn't seen anything but knows about the blue fabrics. DeVries and Endemol was interested in purchasing the ROV footage and I was working between them, ABC, and CBS to strike a deal."

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4179.msg557660#msg557660


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Maria on December 04, 2008, 08:31:36 PM
I read here all the time but usually don't post.  What is going on with Hotshot and Kermit????  It's getting crazy in here.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Keepthefaith on December 04, 2008, 08:32:29 PM
What was Silvetti's role on the ship??
What was the protocal on the ship??
Who was in charge of day to day operations??


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Tamikosmom on December 04, 2008, 08:33:57 PM
Is Dana's program tonight or tomorrow night?

55 MINUTES FROM NOW!!!

Scared Monkeys Radio Daily Commentary - Thursday, December 4, 2008 - “The Babyfaced Gunman” Terrorist Has Truth Serum In His Future

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2008/12/04/scared-monkeys-radio-daily-commentary-thursday-december-4-2008-the-babyfaced-gunman-terrorist-has-truth-serum-in-his-future/


I will complicate the topic to another level.

 ::MonkeyHaHa::

Janet

+++++


DON'T MISS THURSDAY NIGHTS DANA PRETZER SHOW with GUEST JOE TACOPINA   ::MonkeyShocked:: 





Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Keepthefaith on December 04, 2008, 08:34:54 PM

OMG, they did NOT return her and who has the tapes of this now?

From Kyle's emails to Kermit, it sounds to me like Kyle does.

... or Kyle is not working alone.

 ::MonkeyConfused::

Janet
______


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #779 11/24/08 -
« Reply #532 on: Today at 07:06:45 PM »


From Kyle: May 8, 2008: "I've talked with Peter Shouten numerous times back in February. He hasn't seen anything but knows about the blue fabrics. DeVries and Endemol was interested in purchasing the ROV footage and I was working between them, ABC, and CBS to strike a deal."

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4179.msg557660#msg557660

When would be the peak market value for the footage he/they have "If" it's worth anything???


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Edward on December 04, 2008, 08:35:13 PM
Would Jossy know if Ruth ever worked at the bank??



Ruth Dijkhoff had already died when paulus gave this information to the police, so he knew she could neither confirm or deny it
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-backroom/1617741/posts?page=3618

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Was just doing a search on Ruth here@ SM......
QUOTES were reposted by msmarple
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=188.200

Florida posted:

Quote
RUTH DIJKHOFF-HOLTMAN (Holtman is her maiden name)

MARGARITHA WERLEMAN e.v. DIJKHOFF (known as Rita)
(Dijkhoff is her maiden name...
FWIW: Werleman's own the Lighthouse Restaurant and hotels)

Also by Florida:

Quote
Adding: Roberto Dijkhoff is the Bank Manager
Could Ruth Dijkhoff work at the bank?
Did Paulus need to withdraw "big" or needed a loan?


In response to a query by Altruist , Leslie posted:

Quote
Yes, PVDS used Ruth Dijkhoff's name as a witness to his afternoon banking story, but we have no proof that it happened. There is no declaration from this woman and on June 18, 2005 a Ruth Gisela Dijkhoff-Holtmann died at the age of 50. Was her death from an illness, an accident, foul play or suicide? PVDS's witness statement from June 18th does not mention the banking story or this woman, but his June 23rd suspect statement does. Notice the dates. I am inclined to believe the woman who died was the same one who Paul named and that he knew she could never rebute his story.

MARGARITHA WERLEMAN e.v. DIJKHOFF (known as Rita) was the long-time VDS "maid" who was present at the house on May 30, 2005. Because of my ignorance of the Aruban naming customs, I don't know what Rita or Ruth's maiden names were or if they were related. Of course, Paul VDS would know if they were sisiters or sisters-in-law. Dijkhoff is a common name in Aruba. Another interesting fact re: the death of Ruth Dijkhoff is that her funeral arrangements were handled by the funeral home that Yolanda Wever co-owns and her funeral was in Germany. Did her body or her ashes go to Germany? Did that VDS maid go to the funeral in Germany and is that why her declaration to the polis was delayed? Now this young man, named Dijkhoff, is guilty of killing his infant daughter and it seems that drugs played a part in this crime.


Excellent research Nut
Thank You
I cut and pasted it and will work with it. Just See where it goes..



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Tamikosmom on December 04, 2008, 08:38:31 PM

OMG, they did NOT return her and who has the tapes of this now?

From Kyle's emails to Kermit, it sounds to me like Kyle does.

... or Kyle is not working alone.

 ::MonkeyConfused::

Janet
______


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #779 11/24/08 -
« Reply #532 on: Today at 07:06:45 PM »


From Kyle: May 8, 2008: "I've talked with Peter Shouten numerous times back in February. He hasn't seen anything but knows about the blue fabrics. DeVries and Endemol was interested in purchasing the ROV footage and I was working between them, ABC, and CBS to strike a deal."

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4179.msg557660#msg557660

When would be the peak market value for the footage he/they have "If" it's worth anything???

Not a clue.

This wannabe detective has suspicions that some damage control has been going on behind the scenes in the last week.

Janet


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Blue Moon on December 04, 2008, 08:40:09 PM

OMG, they did NOT return her and who has the tapes of this now?

From Kyle's emails to Kermit, it sounds to me like Kyle does.

... or Kyle is not working alone.

 ::MonkeyConfused::

Janet
______


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #779 11/24/08 -
« Reply #532 on: Today at 07:06:45 PM »


From Kyle: May 8, 2008: "I've talked with Peter Shouten numerous times back in February. He hasn't seen anything but knows about the blue fabrics. DeVries and Endemol was interested in purchasing the ROV footage and I was working between them, ABC, and CBS to strike a deal."

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4179.msg557660#msg557660

When would be the peak market value for the footage he/they have "If" it's worth anything???

When the case is closed at the end of this month.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Keepthefaith on December 04, 2008, 08:44:18 PM

OMG, they did NOT return her and who has the tapes of this now?

From Kyle's emails to Kermit, it sounds to me like Kyle does.

... or Kyle is not working alone.

 ::MonkeyConfused::

Janet
______


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #779 11/24/08 -
« Reply #532 on: Today at 07:06:45 PM »


From Kyle: May 8, 2008: "I've talked with Peter Shouten numerous times back in February. He hasn't seen anything but knows about the blue fabrics. DeVries and Endemol was interested in purchasing the ROV footage and I was working between them, ABC, and CBS to strike a deal."

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4179.msg557660#msg557660

When would be the peak market value for the footage he/they have "If" it's worth anything???

Not a clue.

This wannabe detective has suspicions that some damage control has been going on behind the scenes in the last week.

Janet

From who,as well as for what??If you care to answer Janet?Undserstand if you don't. ::MonkeyCool::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: klaasend on December 04, 2008, 08:50:15 PM
Is Dana's program tonight or tomorrow night?

55 MINUTES FROM NOW!!!

Scared Monkeys Radio Daily Commentary - Thursday, December 4, 2008 - “The Babyfaced Gunman” Terrorist Has Truth Serum In His Future

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2008/12/04/scared-monkeys-radio-daily-commentary-thursday-december-4-2008-the-babyfaced-gunman-terrorist-has-truth-serum-in-his-future/


I will complicate the topic to another level.

 ::MonkeyHaHa::

Janet

+++++


DON'T MISS THURSDAY NIGHTS DANA PRETZER SHOW with GUEST JOE TACOPINA   ::MonkeyShocked:: 





Janet - I was wrong, it's Friday.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Magnolia on December 04, 2008, 08:52:12 PM
I read here all the time but usually don't post.  What is going on with Hotshot and Kermit????  It's getting crazy in here.

Just a little Monkey Drama.  ::MonkeyCool::

Do you have an uncle "Jan"?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: truthseeker2 on December 04, 2008, 09:01:04 PM
Okay...where did all the monkeys go?  Off listening to Dana?  Oops.  Nope...that's tomorrow.   ::MonkeyCool::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Keepthefaith on December 04, 2008, 09:02:32 PM
I read here all the time but usually don't post.  What is going on with Hotshot and Kermit????  It's getting crazy in here.

Just a little Monkey Drama.  ::MonkeyCool::

Do you have an uncle "Jan"?

Was waiting for the answer but Maria left so soon???


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Tamikosmom on December 04, 2008, 09:02:53 PM

OMG, they did NOT return her and who has the tapes of this now?

From Kyle's emails to Kermit, it sounds to me like Kyle does.

... or Kyle is not working alone.

 ::MonkeyConfused::

Janet
______


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #779 11/24/08 -
« Reply #532 on: Today at 07:06:45 PM »


From Kyle: May 8, 2008: "I've talked with Peter Shouten numerous times back in February. He hasn't seen anything but knows about the blue fabrics. DeVries and Endemol was interested in purchasing the ROV footage and I was working between them, ABC, and CBS to strike a deal."

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4179.msg557660#msg557660


When would be the peak market value for the footage he/they have "If" it's worth anything???

Not a clue.

This wannabe detective has suspicions that some damage control has been going on behind the scenes in the last week.

Janet

From who,as well as for what??If you care to answer Janet?Undserstand if you don't. ::MonkeyCool::

I don't know but ... I pray Kyle is contemplating his actions regarding who are the rightful recipients of the ROV footage that was spared destruction by the ALE.

Obviously ... this young man believe that there is something significant on that footage that the networks would be interested in.

Janet
______

Proverbs 22:1
A good name is rather to be chosen than great riches




Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Tamikosmom on December 04, 2008, 09:04:15 PM
Okay...where did all the monkeys go?  Off listening to Dana?  Oops.  Nope...that's tomorrow.   ::MonkeyCool::

YES!!!

 ::MonkeyDance::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Keepthefaith on December 04, 2008, 09:06:03 PM

OMG, they did NOT return her and who has the tapes of this now?

From Kyle's emails to Kermit, it sounds to me like Kyle does.

... or Kyle is not working alone.

 ::MonkeyConfused::

Janet
______


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #779 11/24/08 -
« Reply #532 on: Today at 07:06:45 PM »


From Kyle: May 8, 2008: "I've talked with Peter Shouten numerous times back in February. He hasn't seen anything but knows about the blue fabrics. DeVries and Endemol was interested in purchasing the ROV footage and I was working between them, ABC, and CBS to strike a deal."

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4179.msg557660#msg557660


When would be the peak market value for the footage he/they have "If" it's worth anything???

Not a clue.

This wannabe detective has suspicions that some damage control has been going on behind the scenes in the last week.

Janet

From who,as well as for what??If you care to answer Janet?Undserstand if you don't. ::MonkeyCool::

I don't know but ... I pray Kyle is contemplating his actions regarding who are the rightful recipients of the ROV footage that was spared destruction by the ALE.

Obviously ... this young man believe that there is something significant on that footage that the networks would be interested in.

Janet
______

Proverbs 22:1
A good name is rather to be chosen than great riches





So true!I hope we all end up with TRUTH & CONSEQUENCES...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Keepthefaith on December 04, 2008, 09:07:18 PM
In regards to Natalee... ::MonkeyCool::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Blue Moon on December 04, 2008, 09:16:15 PM
Did I read earlier from Caps that he dove to the location of the cage and found the cage was still there and that that cage had been there for years?  Was caps one of the dive team from Aruba?  Why did he know exactly the location of the cage?  If that was Natalee's remains in the cage were they placed there for the specific purpose of the crew of the Persistence to find? Was this a setup from the get-go to find the cage and remains (if that is what it is) and film it?  Why the pond and other witnesses?  I would hate to think that her remains had been moved so many times by these evil people.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: truthseeker2 on December 04, 2008, 09:16:44 PM
Here's what I am trying to figure out.  If the people working on the Persistence had some evidence that Natalee's remains were in that fish trap/cage and after they left Aruba they made attempts to get that information into someone else's hands what would be the reason for that?

Is it possible that they were indeed duped by ALE and the FBI took what ALE chose to give them, so now they are looking for a way to get the information out there so that people can see it?

It seems we are discussing the possiblity that their may be trying to make a profit off of it, but maybe not?

I don't know.  I'm just trying to think through all that has been discussed these last few days and make some sense out of it.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: SS on December 04, 2008, 09:27:18 PM
Did I read earlier from Caps that he dove to the location of the cage and found the cage was still there and that that cage had been there for years?  Was caps one of the dive team from Aruba?  Why did he know exactly the location of the cage?  If that was Natalee's remains in the cage were they placed there for the specific purpose of the crew of the Persistence to find? Was this a setup from the get-go to find the cage and remains (if that is what it is) and film it?  Why the pond and other witnesses?  I would hate to think that her remains had been moved so many times by these evil people.




Blue Moon - I would settle for just knowing where they are right now.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: caesu on December 04, 2008, 09:28:45 PM
Rudy Croes is a politician, and they go with the way the wind blows and hopefully are a little ahead of the wind.

Rudy may be reading the tea leaves and wants to preemptively get ahead of what's coming. I don't think this is a giant coordinated conspiracy. It is a lot of sewn together CYA's but if someone in Holland is interested, no doubt people in Aruba don't want to be on the wrong end of someone's wrath.

And that changes and could be changing. If Rudy Croes backs off, it's because whoever holds sway at the moment, is asking him to. If not, maybe the Aruba budget has been moved to someone else's P&L.

there is a lot of political stuff going on:

15th December - Round Table Conference about the Reforms in the Kingdom.
Aruba is also attending and has certainly has a stake in it concerning the Common Court they want to relocate to Aruba.

this Round Table conference is going to be very awkward anyway.
especially on St. Maarten it is a political mess.
http://www.thedailyherald.com/news/daily/l162/const162.html
Quote
DAWN BEACH--If the meetings on constitutional affairs starting today, Monday, do not yield the desired result, the Round Table Conference (RTC) scheduled for December 15 will not take place, says Constitutional Affairs Minister Roland Duncan.
(as of now, RTC will take place)

15th December is a historic important day. this is Kingdom Day.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koninkrijksdag

23rd December a new Procureur General has to be appointed for Aruba.
http://www.regering.nl/Actueel/Persberichten_ministerraad/2008/Juni/13/Benoeming_procureur_generaal_openbaar_ministerie_Aruba
there isn't much time for that.
Rudy Croes has to recommend the PG, the Kingdom Cabinet approves and the Queen (Governor) appoints.
it is very short days because the Kingdom Cabinet only convenes every 3 weeks on Friday (Dutch Cabinet without Aruba/Antilles ministers every Friday).

Rudy Croes accusation today about a Dutch minister is troubling.
this minister could have been Remkes (former Home Affairs), Donner (former Justice Dep. and currently Social Affairs), or Hirsch Ballin (currently Justice Dep.).
so this is going to be very awkward if Rudy Croes has to sit there (or let his Aruban minister for him) recommend a new PG.

then there is also the revenue for the Plant Hotel (Marriott Complex).
Aruba is still waiting for the 280 million florin The Hague promised them.
and because the euro/dollar rate is fluctuating, this is already down to 240 million.

precondition for Aruba to appear at the Round Table Conference was to get this Plant Hotel revenue.
another precondition Rudy Croes said was that the Common Court had to be moved to Aruba.
but Rudy Croes had to redact that statement.

also next year there are elections on Aruba and Rudy Croes said he is going to retire.

so all this is just political posturing.
maybe Rudy Croes is trying to use the Natalee Holloway case to embarrass Dutch ministers to have them give in, and move the Common Court to Aruba.
so if he succeeds this will be announced on 15th December and Rudy Croes legacy is that he managed to get to Common Court on Aruba.
he even wants a shared OM, with a HQ on Aruba.


there are enough more pressing problems (from the Kingdom Cabinet perspective) on St.Maarten/Curaçao - so i think Rudy Croes is taking a gamble, hoping he can push his plans through - Aruba is in a stronger position, because Aruba already has 'status aparte', while Curaçao and St.Maarten have to prove they are ready for 'status aparte'.

if Rudy Croes/Oduber decides they won't attend the RTC because they don't think there is something in for them - that in effect means they want their full independence.

it could be that Rudy Croes knows already that he won't get the Common Court.
so he has nothing to lose when he calls a Dutch minister a racist.

(of course the man behind Rudy Croes, is his brother Hendrik Croes)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Keepthefaith on December 04, 2008, 09:40:22 PM
Rudy Croes is a politician, and they go with the way the wind blows and hopefully are a little ahead of the wind.

Rudy may be reading the tea leaves and wants to preemptively get ahead of what's coming. I don't think this is a giant coordinated conspiracy. It is a lot of sewn together CYA's but if someone in Holland is interested, no doubt people in Aruba don't want to be on the wrong end of someone's wrath.

And that changes and could be changing. If Rudy Croes backs off, it's because whoever holds sway at the moment, is asking him to. If not, maybe the Aruba budget has been moved to someone else's P&L.

there is a lot of political stuff going on:

15th December - Round Table Conference about the Reforms in the Kingdom.
Aruba is also attending and has certainly has a stake in it concerning the Common Court they want to relocate to Aruba.

this Round Table conference is going to be very awkward anyway.
especially on St. Maarten it is a political mess.
http://www.thedailyherald.com/news/daily/l162/const162.html
Quote
DAWN BEACH--If the meetings on constitutional affairs starting today, Monday, do not yield the desired result, the Round Table Conference (RTC) scheduled for December 15 will not take place, says Constitutional Affairs Minister Roland Duncan.
(as of now, RTC will take place)

15th December is a historic important day. this is Kingdom Day.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koninkrijksdag

23rd December a new Procureur General has to be appointed for Aruba.
http://www.regering.nl/Actueel/Persberichten_ministerraad/2008/Juni/13/Benoeming_procureur_generaal_openbaar_ministerie_Aruba
there isn't much time for that.
Rudy Croes has to recommend the PG, the Kingdom Cabinet approves and the Queen (Governor) appoints.
it is very short days because the Kingdom Cabinet only convenes every 3 weeks on Friday (Dutch Cabinet without Aruba/Antilles ministers every Friday).

Rudy Croes accusation today about a Dutch minister is troubling.
this minister could have been Remkes (former Home Affairs), Donner (former Justice Dep. and currently Social Affairs), or Hirsch Ballin (currently Justice Dep.).
so this is going to be very awkward if Rudy Croes has to sit there (or let his Aruban minister for him) recommend a new PG.

then there is also the revenue for the Plant Hotel (Marriott Complex).
Aruba is still waiting for the 280 million florin The Hague promised them.
and because the euro/dollar rate is fluctuating, this is already down to 240 million.

precondition for Aruba to appear at the Round Table Conference was to get this Plant Hotel revenue.
another precondition Rudy Croes said was that the Common Court had to be moved to Aruba.
but Rudy Croes had to redact that statement.

also next year there are elections on Aruba and Rudy Croes said he is going to retire.

so all this is just political posturing.
maybe Rudy Croes is trying to use the Natalee Holloway case to embarrass Dutch ministers to have them give in, and move the Common Court to Aruba.
so if he succeeds this will be announced on 15th December and Rudy Croes legacy is that he managed to get to Common Court on Aruba.
he even wants a shared OM, with a HQ on Aruba.


there are enough more pressing problems (from the Kingdom Cabinet perspective) on St.Maarten/Curaçao - so i think Rudy Croes is taking a gamble, hoping he can push his plans through - Aruba is in a stronger position, because Aruba already has 'status aparte', while Curaçao and St.Maarten have to prove they are ready for 'status aparte'.

if Rudy Croes/Oduber decides they won't attend the RTC because they don't think there is something in for them - that in effect means they want their full independence.

it could be that Rudy Croes knows already that he won't get the Common Court.
so he has nothing to lose when he calls a Dutch minister a racist.

(of course the man behind Rudy Croes, is his brother Hendrik Croes)


Thank You caesu.Very interesting stuff!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: vms on December 04, 2008, 09:43:07 PM
Not sure if this has been posted...

Greta says she will have the latest coming up at 10:00 PM.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Keepthefaith on December 04, 2008, 09:49:50 PM
Not sure if this has been posted...

Greta says she will have the latest coming up at 10:00 PM.

Thanx VMS.I'm on the westcoast so will watch at my 10pm.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: klaasend on December 04, 2008, 09:53:25 PM
Not sure if this has been posted...

Greta says she will have the latest coming up at 10:00 PM.

Thanx VMS.I'm on the westcoast so will watch at my 10pm.

I'm on the west coast too and it's on in 8 minutes for me  ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Keepthefaith on December 04, 2008, 09:56:44 PM
Not sure if this has been posted...

Greta says she will have the latest coming up at 10:00 PM.

Thanx VMS.I'm on the westcoast so will watch at my 10pm.

I'm on the west coast too and it's on in 8 minutes for me  ::MonkeyHaHa::

Yes i know Klass!;)As i have to close the store tonight for my employee so i may have my birthday night off tomorrow.Yippeeee. ::MonkeyDance::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: SS on December 04, 2008, 09:57:56 PM
I don't get it, so could someone please give us a summary?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Frank on December 04, 2008, 09:58:39 PM
Or Rudy Croes knows what's coming and wants to join the parade and make it appear he has taken the lead in saving Aruba, cleaning it up.

Or, he may just be acting like Joran van der sloot, both of them want something, tired of shouldering this burden alone.

Sociopaths, and we don't know if Rudy Croes is one, feel like victims in their head.

He is calling out Jan van der straaten specifically, and I don't see how van der straaten can't be arrested with Croes as a witness?

van der straaten embarrassed Croes when it was Croes's office that confirmed Natalee dead. Then he had to retract once van der straaten said they actually didn't have a body.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: klaasend on December 04, 2008, 09:59:17 PM
Not sure if this has been posted...

Greta says she will have the latest coming up at 10:00 PM.

Thanx VMS.I'm on the westcoast so will watch at my 10pm.

I'm on the west coast too and it's on in 8 minutes for me  ::MonkeyHaHa::

Yes i know Klass!;)As i have to close the store tonight for my employee so i may have my birthday night off tomorrow.Yippeeee. ::MonkeyDance::

AH, ok...Happy Birthday tomorrow to you!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: klaasend on December 04, 2008, 10:00:02 PM
I don't get it, so could someone please give us a summary?

Yes and the video of the shows have been going up real quick so we'll post that too.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Keepthefaith on December 04, 2008, 10:02:28 PM
Not sure if this has been posted...

Greta says she will have the latest coming up at 10:00 PM.

Thanx VMS.I'm on the westcoast so will watch at my 10pm.

I'm on the west coast too and it's on in 8 minutes for me  ::MonkeyHaHa::

Yes i know Klass!;)As i have to close the store tonight for my employee so i may have my birthday night off tomorrow.Yippeeee. ::MonkeyDance::

AH, ok...Happy Birthday tomorrow to you!

Thank You!Hope this will continue in the right direction..What is Greta going to be talking about specifically??Anyone know?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: wreck on December 04, 2008, 10:08:34 PM
Not sure if this has been posted...

Greta says she will have the latest coming up at 10:00 PM.

Thanx VMS.I'm on the westcoast so will watch at my 10pm.

I'm on the west coast too and it's on in 8 minutes for me  ::MonkeyHaHa::

Yes i know Klass!;)As i have to close the store tonight for my employee so i may have my birthday night off tomorrow.Yippeeee. ::MonkeyDance::

AH, ok...Happy Birthday tomorrow to you!

Thank You!Hope this will continue in the right direction..What is Greta going to be talking about specifically??Anyone know?
Oprah  ::MonkeyRoll::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: klaasend on December 04, 2008, 10:09:24 PM
Don't know what Greta will talk about, she's still talking about politics.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: vms on December 04, 2008, 10:10:36 PM
Don't know what Greta will talk about, she's still talking about politics.
During the preview, she mentioned Rudy and cover up.  ::MonkeyDance::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: vms on December 04, 2008, 10:12:45 PM
Per Greta:

The Aruban prosecutor left a very nasty voice mail to JQK. JQK will be on the show...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: kpg on December 04, 2008, 10:13:27 PM


JQK got a nasty voicemail from Mos.  JQK on GReta to respond.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: kpg on December 04, 2008, 10:15:07 PM



Sure hope Greta plays the voicemail.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Frank on December 04, 2008, 10:20:17 PM
this is going to be good.

Hans is angry. Maybe he's mad that the Holloways didn't get his postcards. Or maybe he's mad because he meant to leave a message on Tacopina's machine and had the numbers mixed up.

After all he's confused, not corrupt.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: bc73 on December 04, 2008, 10:27:14 PM
this is going to be good.

Hans is angry. Maybe he's mad that the Holloways didn't get his postcards. Or maybe he's mad because he meant to leave a message on Tacopina's machine and had the numbers mixed up.

After all he's confused, not corrupt.
Or maybe he is angry because he is just another a$#hole on the happy island of Scumruba...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Hotshot on December 04, 2008, 10:28:07 PM
Quote
Keepthefaith
What leads silvetti to believe there are no remains??What leads you to believe they are remains??
I can say that he only sees an outline in his pictures.
I see depth in the picture.
Kind of like Blondes pictures.  I see everything like she does.  Not all see that.  It is like opinions, everyone sees things differently.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: kpg on December 04, 2008, 10:29:41 PM


I missed JQK damn comcast.  Any reports are welcome.  Did they play the tape?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: vms on December 04, 2008, 10:30:02 PM
Mos returned JQK's call. Mos was clearly angry. He said it was unfortunate what JQK said about him on Greta the other day.

JQK telling about Rudy's statements in the press today. Greta is delighted that Rudy is doing that but asked JQK if he had any idea why Rudy would have waited three years.

JQK says there was a whole string of phone calls between Paulus and Jan.

Lots more said but I can't listen and type.  ::MonkeyHaHa::

Live report from Aruba coming up.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on December 04, 2008, 10:30:03 PM
WOO HOO, JOHN Q!!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: San on December 04, 2008, 10:30:06 PM
JQK got a call from MOS on his cell phone.  He said he was clearly angry.  MOS said it was unfortunate what he said about him on her show tonight.  He told Kelly don't hold your breath on the letter you wrote me.

Greta said any clue why he waited three and a half years when clearly the trail is pretty cold.

GRETA SAID THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE IN ARUBA NOW ADMITS THERE IS A COVERUP.  KELLY SAID YES BETWEEN THE CHIEF OF POLICY AND PAULUS VAN DER SLOOT.

Kelly said hey Paulus why don't you stick your head out the door and say that's not my voice and I didn't have that conversation with my son.

It's getting bigger and darker and they better clear it up because it's only going to get worse.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Lala'sMom on December 04, 2008, 10:31:16 PM
Woo hoo!!! What did I say...this stuff Joran told Greta is big big stuff.  No one ever listens to me...ever....told you guys that the implication of two policemen in all this was big stuff.

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 9:59 pm
DirtyHand can bring down all houses
DirtyHand is the key
His reach is long
He walks in all circles
consort to all, except for the gods
He knows the sacrifice is not responsible





Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on December 04, 2008, 10:32:44 PM
JQK said with the possibility that a 21 yr old woman out there thinking that no one cares, no one's looking for her, scared, etc. those in charge are sitting back pointing fingers at each other. It's a stain on Aruba that is only getting worse so they better do something.




Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on December 04, 2008, 10:34:11 PM
Greta: Paulus is up to his eyeballs with something.

Jossy: Paulus involved from the beginning.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Lala'sMom on December 04, 2008, 10:35:36 PM
I told you guys there was a real live witness...Jossy just gave you his name. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: SS on December 04, 2008, 10:35:57 PM
Woo hoo!!! What did I say...this stuff Joran told Greta is big big stuff.  No one ever listens to me...ever....told you guys that the implication of two policemen in all this was big stuff.

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 9:59 pm
DirtyHand can bring down all houses
DirtyHand is the key
His reach is long
He walks in all circles
consort to all, except for the gods
He knows the sacrifice is not responsible









We love you Lala's!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Tamikosmom on December 04, 2008, 10:38:59 PM
JQK got a call from MOS on his cell phone.  He said he was clearly angry.  MOS said it was unfortunate what he said about him on her show tonight.  He told Kelly don't hold your breath on the letter you wrote me.

Greta said any clue why he waited three and a half years when clearly the trail is pretty cold.

GRETA SAID THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE IN ARUBA NOW ADMITS THERE IS A COVERUP.  KELLY SAID YES BETWEEN THE CHIEF OF POLICY AND PAULUS VAN DER SLOOT.

Kelly said hey Paulus why don't you stick your head out the door and say that's not my voice and I didn't have that conversation with my son.

It's getting bigger and darker and they better clear it up because it's only going to get worse.

Thanks San.

Obviously ... Hans Mos and Rudy Croes are no communicating.

Something akin to my hubby and I.  He was working today.  When he phoned earlier I told him I did not feel like cooking tonight so ... he brought home some Chinese takeout.  I had spent two hour in the kitchen preparing a roast beef dinner with all the trimmings ... even Yorkshire Pudding.

 ::MonkeyWaa::

I still contend that saying "I do not feel like cooking" does not equate to "I am not cooking".

All this food ... I have lost my appetite.

 ::MonkeyWaa::

Later, Janet
7:40 PM PT

 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: San on December 04, 2008, 10:39:18 PM
Michael Cardoza said does this surprise him that there is a coverup.  No.

He said the Dutch should really step in.  He is suspect of the Minster of Justice because he waited this long.

Greta said this is what slays her is that Hans Mos is worried about what JQK said about him on TV.

Ted Williams said Van der Straaten told us he said I don't think I can arrest my best freinds son cause I am his godfather.

Ted said that the Dutch needs to get involved.

Greta is ripping everyone.  She is in a bad mood  ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Frank on December 04, 2008, 10:43:32 PM
Can't wait to see what Joe T. has to say about this.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: kpg on December 04, 2008, 10:47:45 PM



Thanks all for the reports.  Comcastlocked me out.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: klaasend on December 04, 2008, 10:48:11 PM
Can't wait to see what Joe T. has to say about this.

I'm not sure why JoeT has anything to say about it.  JoeT was Joran's American attorney.  Why should JoeT give a hoot now except that he gets to put his greasy face on TV again?  JoeT can't do anything about it one way or the other.  He can't perform as an attorny in Aruba or the NL.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Kat_Gram on December 04, 2008, 10:48:12 PM
Doesn't Mos work for Rudy ?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: San on December 04, 2008, 10:48:23 PM



Thanks all for the reports.  Comcastlocked me out.

Welcome.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Tamikosmom on December 04, 2008, 10:49:54 PM
Can't wait to see what Joe T. has to say about this.


Joe Tacopina has already spoken.  Case Closed!!

 ::MonkeyHaHa::

Janet

+++++

On the Record w/ Greta
New Developments in Natalee Holloway Case
Friday, February 01, 2008


JOE TACOPINA, JORAN VAN DER SLOOT'S ATTORNEY: ... What I will tell you is this. There is nothing .... that's going to convince me, my investigators or anyone with intimate knowledge of this case that Joran had anything to do with Natalee's disappearance ...

<snipped>

TACOPINA: ... I'm as determined as ever to stand here and tell you that he had nothing to do with the disappearance.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,327625,00.html



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: kpg on December 04, 2008, 10:50:05 PM
I told you guys there was a real live witness...Jossy just gave you his name. 



What name did Jossy give?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Magnolia on December 04, 2008, 10:50:33 PM



Thanks all for the reports.  Comcastlocked me out.

Welcome.

I love your transcriptions San.  You even give the emotions. ::MonkeyCool::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Keepthefaith on December 04, 2008, 10:52:00 PM
Quote
Keepthefaith
What leads silvetti to believe there are no remains??What leads you to believe they are remains??
I can say that he only sees an outline in his pictures.
I see depth in the picture.
Kind of like Blondes pictures.  I see everything like she does.  Not all see that.  It is like opinions, everyone sees things differently.

Thanx hotshot!I'm waiting patiently in a good way. ::MonkeyWink::Excited to watch Greta once i close the store.Am on the westcoast...You all are doing a wonderful job keeping us  Monkey's informed.Thanxxxxxxx ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyDance::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: kpg on December 04, 2008, 10:56:25 PM



Lala's


What name?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: IBE on December 04, 2008, 10:57:12 PM
Lala'sMom.

Jossey said the Paulus had been in on it since the beginning? Whom else did he mention?

Greta said that on her blog she either encouraged the bloggers to email the NL Embassy in the US or a blogger wrote in and all are doing it. I didn't quite get this. Things went very fast

She did ask "Where are the Dutch in all this?"

IMO well, ummmmm, they sent Mos to Aruba and Karen J. went back.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Tamikosmom on December 04, 2008, 10:57:36 PM
WOO HOO, JOHN Q!!!

  ::cartwheel::

Janet

_______

John Q. Kelly
DR. PHIL
January 29, 2006


We're not going to sit here and say, 'Mr. Cohen's a nice guy. He told us some nice things. Aruba's a nice country.' No! Their daughter's missing. We don't have answers. The answers are down there. They have the resources, they have the men, they have the answers, they've got the suspects, it's all down there for them to solve this, and they're not doing it. We need that done.

http://www.drphil.com/slideshows/slideshow/3041/?id=?id=&slide=8&null=null


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: truthseeker2 on December 04, 2008, 10:59:49 PM
Woo hoo!!! What did I say...this stuff Joran told Greta is big big stuff.  No one ever listens to me...ever....told you guys that the implication of two policemen in all this was big stuff.

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 9:59 pm
DirtyHand can bring down all houses
DirtyHand is the key
His reach is long
He walks in all circles
consort to all, except for the gods
He knows the sacrifice is not responsible





I listen to you, Lala's.  Go back and read Simian's very first post.  Merian Ernest seemed to think it was important.  Then ask yourself the same question Grey Whisperer asked Dan..."What is really to biggest export from Aruba?"


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Bladerunner on December 04, 2008, 11:01:02 PM
Finally, the tipping point has been reached. I knew this cover-up could not last--my thoughts from earlier this year:

"The fatal flaw in this cover-up was the participants ignorance about the power of the internet. Google is Aruba's worst enemy now. Everything is documented, indexed, and fully searchable.

I have stated it before, we are now at a classic "tipping point" regarding this cover-up. One thing I would like to see stopped in the MSM coverage in this murder coverup is the use of the word investigation to describe the prosecutions actions throughout this ordeal. There was no investigation, there wasn't one when Natalee died and there isn't one going on now. This is clearly established at this point, and slowly but surely being recognized by the citizens of the world."



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Lala'sMom on December 04, 2008, 11:01:22 PM



Lala's


What name?

I don't know how to spell it by Jossy's pronunciation...I am sure it will be posted in the transcript.  Actually, I don't think Jossy meant to release his name at all.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: caesu on December 04, 2008, 11:04:08 PM
Don't know what Greta will talk about, she's still talking about politics.
During the preview, she mentioned Rudy and cover up.  ::MonkeyDance::

that's good that it gets attention in the American media as well.
Greta should ask Hero Brinkman on one day, to let hem explain the political side of all this ever increasing smelly mess.

and that will then generate Dutch news here, headline:
Dutch Member of Parliament appears on FOX, trashes Aruba - calls it corrupt gangster nest.

next Thursday 11st December, there is another meeting about Aruban/Antilles affairs in the Dutch parliament.
http://www.tweedekamer.nl/vergaderingen/commissievergaderingen/volgende_weken/details.jsp?parlisnummer=2008A00422&dayofweek=&his=
the prime-minister Balkenende is also summoned in addition to the Kingdom Affairs secretary Bijleveld.
reason for this is 1.5 billion euro loan to St.Maarten. nice timing with a looming recession also here in Holland.
and Bijleveld has failed to provide Parlaiment with a report on the corruption on Antilles/Aruba.
she promised to provide this by November (this was in response to the Hero Brinkman-corruption-report).
http://www.amigoe.com/artman/publish/printer_50080.php

but now maybe it's also about this Rudy Croes spilling the beans.
in that case Justice Minister Ballin might also get invited.
but this won't fit on the schedule altogether - there is just too much to discuss about St.Maarten/Curaçao, so maybe now finally they grant Brinkman his emergency-debate he asked for dozens of times.
there isn't much time for that either - Christmass recess start December 19th.

all this just before the 15th december Round Table Conference. interesting...
i think there is a lot of pressure (from The Hague and maybe also Oduber) on Rudy Croes to redact his statements now.
he has backtracked before.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: IBE on December 04, 2008, 11:05:21 PM
PS.. I am on the westcoast too, but I have Direct TV and get Greta twice. Sometimes I can't wait until the second time to hear what was missed the first time.

Even though, Janet, and I agree, Rudy Croes is sooo political, but it seems there is IMO some different pressure coming on him... after all saying there was a cover up, well, it happened on his watch! Why is he shooting himself in the foot?

Actually... JQK, Greta and her guests are right... it about a missing American girl! that just went "poof" because "we didn't understand their system."

We surely understand cronyism, corruption, cover up and elitism, but don't accept it from any Law Enforcement, government and the Judicial.

IMO it is up to Holland, Interpol, but go go Greta!

IMO I never really thought she believed Joran, but was pretending to believe 100% for later interviews and it has worked.

Where is Joran running now?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Lala'sMom on December 04, 2008, 11:08:33 PM
Woo hoo!!! What did I say...this stuff Joran told Greta is big big stuff.  No one ever listens to me...ever....told you guys that the implication of two policemen in all this was big stuff.

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 9:59 pm
DirtyHand can bring down all houses
DirtyHand is the key
His reach is long
He walks in all circles
consort to all, except for the gods
He knows the sacrifice is not responsible





I listen to you, Lala's.  Go back and read Simian's very first post.  Merian Ernest seemed to think it was important.  Then ask yourself the same question Grey Whisperer asked Dan..."What is really to biggest export from Aruba?"

Simian dismissed the idea of human trafficking right off.  That is because he was uninformed at the time...remember he was getting his info mainly from the news and other ALE then when he was put on the straight and narrow by his uncle...his tune changed to that 5th suspect. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Lala'sMom on December 04, 2008, 11:12:12 PM
Just to clarify something that may have gone unnoticed...Caps and I do not agree on who is Dirty Hand...it's all friendly though because I am still open to his idea.  I say it's van der Straaten and he says DTKM.  We have hashed this out in Shango before...you guys really should have come over to dance...you missed a lot.  Most of this stuff is not new to any of us tangoers.  ::MonkeyWink::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: truthseeker2 on December 04, 2008, 11:12:30 PM
Woo hoo!!! What did I say...this stuff Joran told Greta is big big stuff.  No one ever listens to me...ever....told you guys that the implication of two policemen in all this was big stuff.

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 9:59 pm
DirtyHand can bring down all houses
DirtyHand is the key
His reach is long
He walks in all circles
consort to all, except for the gods
He knows the sacrifice is not responsible





I listen to you, Lala's.  Go back and read Simian's very first post.  Merian Ernest seemed to think it was important.  Then ask yourself the same question Grey Whisperer asked Dan..."What is really to biggest export from Aruba?"

Simian dismissed the idea of human trafficking right off.  That is because he was uninformed at the time...remember he was getting his info mainly from the news and other ALE then when he was put on the straight and narrow by his uncle...his tune changed to that 5th suspect. 

Didn't you say Simian worked at the bank?  What if Paulus was trying to 'deposit' a bag of money and needed a specific teller to handle the transaction and that teller was not there in the morning?  If Simian knew what was going on and was doing the 'protect' Aruba, which I believe he was, the of course he would dismiss the idea.

If we can place Ruth D. as a bank employee doesn't that provide a link between Simian and Ruth and possibly to Paulus?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Lala'sMom on December 04, 2008, 11:12:39 PM
LMAO!!  I cleared to room again.  ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Tamikosmom on December 04, 2008, 11:13:07 PM
The following interview of last night where John Kelly appeared as Greta last is what Hans Mos is so upset about.

 ::MonkeyDance::

Janet

++++++


JOHN KELLY

Holloway Attorney: Pleas for Arrest Met With 'Deafening Silence'
Wednesday, December 03, 2008


GRETA VAN SUSTEREN, FOX NEWS HOST: "Arrest them." That's what the lawyer for Natalee Holloway's family told the Aruban prosecutor. Joran van der Sloot told us "On the Record" that he sold Natalee Holloway on a beach in Aruba ...

More:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,460908,00.html


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Frank on December 04, 2008, 11:13:19 PM
Holland could so easily end all of this. Doesn't van der straaten receive his retirement benfits from Holland?

They could squeeze him so quickly but will they?

And you know, if van der straaten goes, so goes Janssen.

The Dutch troika of van der straaten, van der sloot and Janssen. She will be investigated also as she had calls with Paulus. She's dirty too.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: truthseeker2 on December 04, 2008, 11:14:34 PM
Just to clarify something that may have gone unnoticed...Caps and I do not agree on who is Dirty Hand...it's all friendly though because I am still open to his idea.  I say it's van der Straaten and he says DTKM.  We have hashed this out in Shango before...you guys really should have come over to dance...you missed a lot.  Most of this stuff is not new to any of us tangoers.  ::MonkeyWink::

Well, you and I agree.  I have supported the idea of Dirty Hand being Van Der Straaten in the Shango thread for a very long time.  I gave all of the Shango posts that I believe support that.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Keepthefaith on December 04, 2008, 11:15:02 PM
Just to clarify something that may have gone unnoticed...Caps and I do not agree on who is Dirty Hand...it's all friendly though because I am still open to his idea.  I say it's van der Straaten and he says DTKM.  We have hashed this out in Shango before...you guys really should have come over to dance...you missed a lot.  Most of this stuff is not new to any of us tangoers.  ::MonkeyWink::

LOL.. ::MonkeyLaugh::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Tamikosmom on December 04, 2008, 11:17:00 PM
The following interview of last night where John Kelly appeared as Greta last is what Hans Mos is so upset about.

 ::MonkeyDance::

Janet

++++++


JOHN KELLY

Holloway Attorney: Pleas for Arrest Met With 'Deafening Silence'
Wednesday, December 03, 2008


GRETA VAN SUSTEREN, FOX NEWS HOST: "Arrest them." That's what the lawyer for Natalee Holloway's family told the Aruban prosecutor. Joran van der Sloot told us "On the Record" that he sold Natalee Holloway on a beach in Aruba ...

More:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,460908,00.html

TONIGHT'S GRETA SHOW WITH JOHN KELLY!!!

VIDEO:

Aruba prosecutor's response to Holloway attorney's demand


http://www.foxnews.com/video2/video08.html?maven_referralObject=3265793&maven_referralPlaylistId=&sRevUrl=http://www.foxnews.com/ontherecord/index.html


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: truthseeker2 on December 04, 2008, 11:23:46 PM
Was Jossy on Greta tonight?  I don't see any video of him yet.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: klaasend on December 04, 2008, 11:25:22 PM
Was Jossy on Greta tonight?  I don't see any video of him yet.

Yes he was but there may not be a video of his part.  Hopefully it will be in the transcript with it's posted.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: vms on December 04, 2008, 11:27:23 PM



Lala's


What name?

I don't know how to spell it by Jossy's pronunciation...I am sure it will be posted in the transcript.  Actually, I don't think Jossy meant to release his name at all.

I replayed it and I know what it sounded like to me but its impossible for me to know for sure with Jossy's accent. Jossy kind of paused before he said it, I wonder why he would release his name. :shock:


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: truthseeker2 on December 04, 2008, 11:29:27 PM
Food for thought:

“Find Aruba.  Find Haystack.  Find Santa Marta  Trace with your finger what the Antenna has spoken about”.  Merian Ernest   July 14, 2005  5:51 PM (this appears to be a reference to telephone calls) 

Along the northern coast, about 45 miles east of Barranqullia, Columbia you will find Santa Marta, which is the oldest city in Colombia.  Prostitution is prominent in Santa Marta. 


In his latest interview with Greta, Joran surmises that Natalee may have been taken to Venezuela.  There is a section of Caracas that is called Santa Marta in Venezuela.  I do not have much information about that location.  Just that it is close to the northern coast.  I have plotted all of these locations on Google Earth but I not know how to capture and post that.

“See the first prose of the Simian.  It precedes all.  Still to this day, there are too many detractors.  Simian is sad to see his own words used against him.”  Merian Ernest July 27, 2005  11:38 AM

Simian’s first post: 

“Why would anybody take this girl for the purpose of Sex Slavery?  If you look up where Aruba is you will notice our proximity to South America.  A lot of pretty girls and a lot of poverty.  Why take an North American girl and sell her in Colombia?  People don’t just disappear.  And if Amy Bradley was the last girl to disappear in Aruba and Natalee after 7 years, I would say that these human traffickers really suck.  By the way  This thing will be solved.”  June 17, 2005  5:20 PM


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: ldstlou on December 04, 2008, 11:30:26 PM

Just what are you trying to prove?  I am NOT going another round with you, not here.  This is not the place for it, and it is disrespectable to Natalee and her family.  If anyone made all of this come out, I hate to say it, but it was Jorans BIG mouth.  Your trying to disprove people here is starting to make alto of people sick, I have gotten numerous emails about it.  Stop while SM is still ahead.  You are making something out of nothing.  If you want pics, I'll give you some pics to show everyone that Mr. Silvetti didn't need any extra's to try and live.  His stocks may have dropped, but in no means is this man wasting away.  Leave these poor people alone.  There must have been a million pics taken those few months, and your crying over a few that didn't make it to the FBI?  I am sure there have been alot more pics that did make it to them.. It's not about {{edit}], its about Natalee.

Hotshot ... either you believe these are Kyle's words in emails to Kermit or you do not.  If they are Kyle's words ... I wish he would afford those who supported the search effort in prayer and monies an explanation.  If they are not ... I wish Kyle would refute them.

Janet

<snipped>

______



Janet don't get mad at me!!! I'll send ya another UPS guy if ya don't!! I real good one!!! lol

I sent Kyle an IM and advised he not respond. I don't think the guy can win this one and I know darned well he would be attacked. Now...my word is not going to get him not to post!!! lol Don't even know the guy!! But I supported him in his decision to just let it rest.

Lou ... no thanks but ... cold cash would suffice.

The last two UPS guys you sent me were useless.  I placed a table in the closet where I was holding them hostage and ... set up the Scrabble board and ... they implied rather die than submit to a game with me.  I gave up and set them free.

 ::MonkeyWaa::

Lou ... this issue has upset me very much.  I have posted with Kermit since the getgo and ... in spite of our differences regarding some issues ... I have never known him/her to be dishonest.  Justice for Natalee Holloway has been his/her objective and ... his/her research that translates into countless hours he has shared with Natalee forums attests to his/her dedication to the cause.

Also ... much of what Kermit has revealed ... I was suspicious of at the beginning of the summer when I began reading contradictions in Kyle's posts.  I was in the minority on the forum in my suspicious ... so I bowed out for five months.

Lou ... so many of us Monkeys have a food planted on BOTH sides of the fence regarding this topic and ... it is important that there is confirmation one way or the other.

Janet

Thank you Janet.
"Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God." 1 John 4:1



ARUBA - GIVE US NATALEE BACK!




OMG, they did NOT return her and who has the tapes of this now?

damned UPS men...what are they good for anyways???!! lol

Again...of course Monkeys are going to explore every possibility!! That is what we do.

But again, what bothers me is posting private e-mails here..I was told long ago..that was a no-no  ::MonkeyNoNo:: Am I wrong?

Let me tell you...I go back and forth with the Kennedy conspiracy too. I see what "factual" show..I believe in conspiracy...see another..makes me doubt it. Same evidence can certainly be interpreted different ways.

But implying that Beth or Dave or Jug, or any of the family believes Natalee was in that cage is absolutely wrong!!! I know that as a fact!

I think it also does a disservice to Tim Miller. That man wanted Natalee found as much as the family did!! No way do I believe he was fooled. I said this before...if you want the facts of what happened...there are enough Monkeys who know Tim well enough...I don't know him at all or I would e-mail him...but enough who do that could clear this up in a sec.

I went straight to Jug...he said she was not in the cage...family does not believe she was in the cage...they don't believe she was found in the cage...and he doesn't even know why it is being discussed...and still it is being said the family has Natalee. Its just not true.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: SS on December 04, 2008, 11:30:27 PM
Just to clarify something that may have gone unnoticed...Caps and I do not agree on who is Dirty Hand...it's all friendly though because I am still open to his idea.  I say it's van der Straaten and he says DTKM.  We have hashed this out in Shango before...you guys really should have come over to dance...you missed a lot.  Most of this stuff is not new to any of us tangoers.  ::MonkeyWink::




And I remain undecided, on the fence.  There is so much information that points to both of them.  I'm just still not sure.  I still wonder if there wasn't someone above both of them who was pulling those strings.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: SS on December 04, 2008, 11:35:54 PM
From ldstlou:

damned UPS men...what are they good for anyways???!! lol

Again...of course Monkeys are going to explore every possibility!! That is what we do.

But again, what bothers me is posting private e-mails here..I was told long ago..that was a no-no   Am I wrong?

Let me tell you...I go back and forth with the Kennedy conspiracy too. I see what "factual" show..I believe in conspiracy...see another..makes me doubt it. Same evidence can certainly be interpreted different ways.

But implying that Beth or Dave or Jug, or any of the family believes Natalee was in that cage is absolutely wrong!!! I know that as a fact!

I think it also does a disservice to Tim Miller. That man wanted Natalee found as much as the family did!! No way do I believe he was fooled. I said this before...if you want the facts of what happened...there are enough Monkeys who know Tim well enough...I don't know him at all or I would e-mail him...but enough who do that could clear this up in a sec.

I went straight to Jug...he said she was not in the cage...family does not believe she was in the cage...they don't believe she was found in the cage...and he doesn't even know why it is being discussed...and still it is being said the family has Natalee. Its just not true.




I wish that Hotshot would let us know exactly where she is getting the information.  I think it would be helpful to everyone. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Lala'sMom on December 04, 2008, 11:36:38 PM
Just to clarify something that may have gone unnoticed...Caps and I do not agree on who is Dirty Hand...it's all friendly though because I am still open to his idea.  I say it's van der Straaten and he says DTKM.  We have hashed this out in Shango before...you guys really should have come over to dance...you missed a lot.  Most of this stuff is not new to any of us tangoers.  ::MonkeyWink::

LOL.. ::MonkeyLaugh::

Why is that funny?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Lala'sMom on December 04, 2008, 11:38:37 PM



Lala's


What name?

I don't know how to spell it by Jossy's pronunciation...I am sure it will be posted in the transcript.  Actually, I don't think Jossy meant to release his name at all.

I replayed it and I know what it sounded like to me but its impossible for me to know for sure with Jossy's accent. Jossy kind of paused before he said it, I wonder why he would release his name. :shock:

I don't think he meant to say it at all...that is why I was surprised too.  My understanding was the name not be released, but Mos has known the name for a long time so I guess it does not matter since Mos claims he does not believe this person.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Lala'sMom on December 04, 2008, 11:40:05 PM
From ldstlou:

damned UPS men...what are they good for anyways???!! lol

Again...of course Monkeys are going to explore every possibility!! That is what we do.

But again, what bothers me is posting private e-mails here..I was told long ago..that was a no-no   Am I wrong?

Let me tell you...I go back and forth with the Kennedy conspiracy too. I see what "factual" show..I believe in conspiracy...see another..makes me doubt it. Same evidence can certainly be interpreted different ways.

But implying that Beth or Dave or Jug, or any of the family believes Natalee was in that cage is absolutely wrong!!! I know that as a fact!

I think it also does a disservice to Tim Miller. That man wanted Natalee found as much as the family did!! No way do I believe he was fooled. I said this before...if you want the facts of what happened...there are enough Monkeys who know Tim well enough...I don't know him at all or I would e-mail him...but enough who do that could clear this up in a sec.

I went straight to Jug...he said she was not in the cage...family does not believe she was in the cage...they don't believe she was found in the cage...and he doesn't even know why it is being discussed...and still it is being said the family has Natalee. Its just not true.




I wish that Hotshot would let us know exactly where she is getting the information.  I think it would be helpful to everyone. 

Probably from the same sources I get mine.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Keepthefaith on December 04, 2008, 11:41:16 PM
Just to clarify something that may have gone unnoticed...Caps and I do not agree on who is Dirty Hand...it's all friendly though because I am still open to his idea.  I say it's van der Straaten and he says DTKM.  We have hashed this out in Shango before...you guys really should have come over to dance...you missed a lot.  Most of this stuff is not new to any of us tangoers.  ::MonkeyWink::

LOL.. ::MonkeyLaugh::

Why is that funny?

The Dance and Tango Part.Just the image of two Monkeys Tangoing.Visual was funny.No Offense whatsoever meant LaLa.Hope you did not take it as such! ::MonkeyWink::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: SS on December 04, 2008, 11:42:09 PM
From ldstlou:

damned UPS men...what are they good for anyways???!! lol

Again...of course Monkeys are going to explore every possibility!! That is what we do.

But again, what bothers me is posting private e-mails here..I was told long ago..that was a no-no   Am I wrong?

Let me tell you...I go back and forth with the Kennedy conspiracy too. I see what "factual" show..I believe in conspiracy...see another..makes me doubt it. Same evidence can certainly be interpreted different ways.

But implying that Beth or Dave or Jug, or any of the family believes Natalee was in that cage is absolutely wrong!!! I know that as a fact!

I think it also does a disservice to Tim Miller. That man wanted Natalee found as much as the family did!! No way do I believe he was fooled. I said this before...if you want the facts of what happened...there are enough Monkeys who know Tim well enough...I don't know him at all or I would e-mail him...but enough who do that could clear this up in a sec.

I went straight to Jug...he said she was not in the cage...family does not believe she was in the cage...they don't believe she was found in the cage...and he doesn't even know why it is being discussed...and still it is being said the family has Natalee. Its just not true.




I wish that Hotshot would let us know exactly where she is getting the information.  I think it would be helpful to everyone. 

Probably from the same sources I get mine.




 ::MonkeyConfused::  Then why are the conclusions so different?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: truthseeker2 on December 04, 2008, 11:42:46 PM
Lala's,
Do you think Jossy was talkng about the guy who says he saw Joran from his living room window around 4 am and then a few minutes later in a vehicle with Paulus?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Lala'sMom on December 04, 2008, 11:45:19 PM

Just what are you trying to prove?  I am NOT going another round with you, not here.  This is not the place for it, and it is disrespectable to Natalee and her family.  If anyone made all of this come out, I hate to say it, but it was Jorans BIG mouth.  Your trying to disprove people here is starting to make alto of people sick, I have gotten numerous emails about it.  Stop while SM is still ahead.  You are making something out of nothing.  If you want pics, I'll give you some pics to show everyone that Mr. Silvetti didn't need any extra's to try and live.  His stocks may have dropped, but in no means is this man wasting away.  Leave these poor people alone.  There must have been a million pics taken those few months, and your crying over a few that didn't make it to the FBI?  I am sure there have been alot more pics that did make it to them.. It's not about {{edit}], its about Natalee.

Hotshot ... either you believe these are Kyle's words in emails to Kermit or you do not.  If they are Kyle's words ... I wish he would afford those who supported the search effort in prayer and monies an explanation.  If they are not ... I wish Kyle would refute them.

Janet

<snipped>

______



Janet don't get mad at me!!! I'll send ya another UPS guy if ya don't!! I real good one!!! lol

I sent Kyle an IM and advised he not respond. I don't think the guy can win this one and I know darned well he would be attacked. Now...my word is not going to get him not to post!!! lol Don't even know the guy!! But I supported him in his decision to just let it rest.

Lou ... no thanks but ... cold cash would suffice.

The last two UPS guys you sent me were useless.  I placed a table in the closet where I was holding them hostage and ... set up the Scrabble board and ... they implied rather die than submit to a game with me.  I gave up and set them free.

 ::MonkeyWaa::

Lou ... this issue has upset me very much.  I have posted with Kermit since the getgo and ... in spite of our differences regarding some issues ... I have never known him/her to be dishonest.  Justice for Natalee Holloway has been his/her objective and ... his/her research that translates into countless hours he has shared with Natalee forums attests to his/her dedication to the cause.

Also ... much of what Kermit has revealed ... I was suspicious of at the beginning of the summer when I began reading contradictions in Kyle's posts.  I was in the minority on the forum in my suspicious ... so I bowed out for five months.

Lou ... so many of us Monkeys have a food planted on BOTH sides of the fence regarding this topic and ... it is important that there is confirmation one way or the other.

Janet

Thank you Janet.
"Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God." 1 John 4:1



ARUBA - GIVE US NATALEE BACK!




OMG, they did NOT return her and who has the tapes of this now?

damned UPS men...what are they good for anyways???!! lol

Again...of course Monkeys are going to explore every possibility!! That is what we do.

But again, what bothers me is posting private e-mails here..I was told long ago..that was a no-no  ::MonkeyNoNo:: Am I wrong?

Let me tell you...I go back and forth with the Kennedy conspiracy too. I see what "factual" show..I believe in conspiracy...see another..makes me doubt it. Same evidence can certainly be interpreted different ways.

But implying that Beth or Dave or Jug, or any of the family believes Natalee was in that cage is absolutely wrong!!! I know that as a fact!

I think it also does a disservice to Tim Miller. That man wanted Natalee found as much as the family did!! No way do I believe he was fooled. I said this before...if you want the facts of what happened...there are enough Monkeys who know Tim well enough...I don't know him at all or I would e-mail him...but enough who do that could clear this up in a sec.

I went straight to Jug...he said she was not in the cage...family does not believe she was in the cage...they don't believe she was found in the cage...and he doesn't even know why it is being discussed...and still it is being said the family has Natalee. Its just not true.

Where is the dead horse icon when you need it?  :roll:

That more important thing in all this is that Joran implicated ALE...he clearly has hung them out to dry in this as being paid off by his father.  Simple to verify if true...that kind of money would be traceable...the conversations with Paulus would be traceable.  Has anyone even ventured to ask how Rudy Croes is aware of any and all phone calls made between Paulus and Jan??  If there is no record of Paulus and this money ever leaving his bank account then it takes you right back to the beginning....the mafia connections on Aruba....just more to sink the tiny island.  Aruba can not police itself and the Dutch do not seem to care at all.  Yet, so many things fit so perfectly that it boggles the mind.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: SS on December 04, 2008, 11:45:35 PM
Since Jossy gave the name on public television for millions to hear, would someone please tell us so we won't have to wait for the transcript?  I don't get Greta.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Lala'sMom on December 04, 2008, 11:45:53 PM
Lala's,
Do you think Jossy was talkng about the guy who says he saw Joran from his living room window around 4 am and then a few minutes later in a vehicle with Paulus?


Yes.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: ldstlou on December 04, 2008, 11:46:13 PM
From ldstlou:

damned UPS men...what are they good for anyways???!! lol

Again...of course Monkeys are going to explore every possibility!! That is what we do.

But again, what bothers me is posting private e-mails here..I was told long ago..that was a no-no   Am I wrong?

Let me tell you...I go back and forth with the Kennedy conspiracy too. I see what "factual" show..I believe in conspiracy...see another..makes me doubt it. Same evidence can certainly be interpreted different ways.

But implying that Beth or Dave or Jug, or any of the family believes Natalee was in that cage is absolutely wrong!!! I know that as a fact!

I think it also does a disservice to Tim Miller. That man wanted Natalee found as much as the family did!! No way do I believe he was fooled. I said this before...if you want the facts of what happened...there are enough Monkeys who know Tim well enough...I don't know him at all or I would e-mail him...but enough who do that could clear this up in a sec.

I went straight to Jug...he said she was not in the cage...family does not believe she was in the cage...they don't believe she was found in the cage...and he doesn't even know why it is being discussed...and still it is being said the family has Natalee. Its just not true.




I wish that Hotshot would let us know exactly where she is getting the information.  I think it would be helpful to everyone. 

I have to back track..I don't know Dave and have never talked to him, so I really can't say what he believes. I know for a fact what Jug and Beth believe about Kermits theory.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Lala'sMom on December 04, 2008, 11:47:44 PM
Since Jossy gave the name on public television for millions to hear, would someone please tell us so we won't have to wait for the transcript?  I don't get Greta.

I don't know how to spell it...Jossy is so hard to hear on television.  I would not have a clue if it started with an "h" or a "j" or what considering the language there.  If I were trying for a phonetic spelling I would go with  "Heilman". Don't hold me to it, I am most likely wrong.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: SS on December 04, 2008, 11:50:37 PM
Since Jossy gave the name on public television for millions to hear, would someone please tell us so we won't have to wait for the transcript?  I don't get Greta.

I don't know how to spell it...Jossy is so hard to hear on television.  I would not have a clue if it started with an "h" or a "j" or what considering the language there.  If I were trying for a phonetic spelling I would go with  "Heilman". Don't hold me to it, I am most likely wrong.




Thanks, Lala's.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on December 04, 2008, 11:51:11 PM
For Lala's:

(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c100/crazybabyborgs/express/1.gif)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: ldstlou on December 04, 2008, 11:52:37 PM
LMAO!!  I cleared to room again.  ::MonkeyHaHa::

sorry...cleaning and chatting too!! lol I am still here!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: vms on December 04, 2008, 11:52:41 PM
Since Jossy gave the name on public television for millions to hear, would someone please tell us so we won't have to wait for the transcript?  I don't get Greta.

I don't know how to spell it...Jossy is so hard to hear on television.  I would not have a clue if it started with an "h" or a "j" or what considering the language there.  If I were trying for a phonetic spelling I would go with  "Heilman". Don't hold me to it, I am most likely wrong.

My guess was Mr. Herman.  ::MonkeyHaHa::



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Lala'sMom on December 04, 2008, 11:52:55 PM
I guess it's time for me to hug Nemo...see you guys later.

Thanks CBB. I am saving it this time.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: ldstlou on December 04, 2008, 11:53:05 PM
For Lala's:

(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c100/crazybabyborgs/express/1.gif)

rofl!! Hi CBB!!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on December 04, 2008, 11:53:27 PM
quote: Ldstlou:

I have to back track..I don't know Dave and have never talked to him, so I really can't say what he believes. I know for a fact what Jug and Beth believe about Kermits theory.


What do they believe? TIA


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Lala'sMom on December 04, 2008, 11:54:18 PM
Since Jossy gave the name on public television for millions to hear, would someone please tell us so we won't have to wait for the transcript?  I don't get Greta.

I don't know how to spell it...Jossy is so hard to hear on television.  I would not have a clue if it started with an "h" or a "j" or what considering the language there.  If I were trying for a phonetic spelling I would go with  "Heilman". Don't hold me to it, I am most likely wrong.

My guess was Mr. Herman.  ::MonkeyHaHa::



Well I said, don't hold me to it.  I have such a hard time understanding Jossy on television.  I think it's my own hearing and the range of his voice. I have turn it up really loud and I even rewound it to check and I still was not sure about it.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on December 04, 2008, 11:54:53 PM
Nite, Lala's!

Hi, Ldstlou!  :2waver:


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: truthseeker2 on December 04, 2008, 11:56:10 PM
Goodnite, Lala's!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: vms on December 04, 2008, 11:57:15 PM
Since Jossy gave the name on public television for millions to hear, would someone please tell us so we won't have to wait for the transcript?  I don't get Greta.

I don't know how to spell it...Jossy is so hard to hear on television.  I would not have a clue if it started with an "h" or a "j" or what considering the language there.  If I were trying for a phonetic spelling I would go with  "Heilman". Don't hold me to it, I am most likely wrong.

My guess was Mr. Herman.  ::MonkeyHaHa::



Well I said, don't hold me to it.  I have such a hard time understanding Jossy on television.  I think it's my own hearing and the range of his voice. I have turn it up really loud and I even rewound it to check and I still was not sure about it.

No, impossible to tell with the accent. I have no idea...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on December 04, 2008, 11:58:38 PM
I have absolutely no basis for this, but it crossed my mind when I was thinking about Joran and the very real possibility, IMO, that he's going to turn up dead, that maybe that threat is exactly why he called Greta to begin with.

If anything should happen to him in the near future, it wouldn't take a rocket scientist to put 2+2 together.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: ldstlou on December 05, 2008, 12:00:01 AM
quote: Ldstlou:

I have to back track..I don't know Dave and have never talked to him, so I really can't say what he believes. I know for a fact what Jug and Beth believe about Kermits theory.


What do they believe? TIA

They don't have Natalee's body. She was not in the cage. The crew of the Persistence did not find Natalee and cover it up...and Jug says he doesn't even understand why it is being discussed..it's ridiculous! I asked if I could post that..he said yes.

I was then asked if he had specifically seen the photos that Kermit was discussing. Lalas e-mailed them to him. I told Jug about the e-mail that Kermit posted from Beth, that Kermit said Beth told her it was ok to expose the cover-up ...as in Persistance finding Natalee and hiding it...you DON'T want to know his response was to that one..lol


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on December 05, 2008, 12:03:15 AM
quote: Ldstlou:

I have to back track..I don't know Dave and have never talked to him, so I really can't say what he believes. I know for a fact what Jug and Beth believe about Kermits theory.


What do they believe? TIA

They don't have Natalee's body. She was not in the cage. The crew of the Persistence did not find Natalee and cover it up...and Jug says he doesn't even understand why it is being discussed..it's ridiculous! I asked if I could post that..he said yes.

I was then asked if he had specifically seen the photos that Kermit was discussing. Lalas e-mailed them to him. I told Jug about the e-mail that Kermit posted from Beth, that Kermit said Beth told her it was ok to expose the cover-up ...as in Persistance finding Natalee and hiding it...you DON'T want to know his response was to that one..lol

So Kermit just came to a wrong conclusion or theory while he was trying to peice things together. Right?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Keepthefaith on December 05, 2008, 12:03:48 AM
Just to clarify something that may have gone unnoticed...Caps and I do not agree on who is Dirty Hand...it's all friendly though because I am still open to his idea.  I say it's van der Straaten and he says DTKM.  We have hashed this out in Shango before...you guys really should have come over to dance...you missed a lot.  Most of this stuff is not new to any of us tangoers.  ::MonkeyWink::

LOL.. ::MonkeyLaugh::

Why is that funny?

The Dance and Tango Part.Just the image of two Monkeys Tangoing.Visual was funny.No Offense whatsoever meant LaLa.Hope you did not take it as such! ::MonkeyWink::

Bringing it forward to make sure you read LaLa???


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: ldstlou on December 05, 2008, 12:04:05 AM
quote: Ldstlou:

I have to back track..I don't know Dave and have never talked to him, so I really can't say what he believes. I know for a fact what Jug and Beth believe about Kermits theory.


What do they believe? TIA

They don't have Natalee's body. She was not in the cage. The crew of the Persistence did not find Natalee and cover it up...and Jug says he doesn't even understand why it is being discussed..it's ridiculous! I asked if I could post that..he said yes.

I was then asked if he had specifically seen the photos that Kermit was discussing. Lalas e-mailed them to him. I told Jug about the e-mail that Kermit posted from Beth, that Kermit said Beth told her it was ok to expose the cover-up ...as in Persistence finding Natalee and hiding it...you DON'T want to know his response was to that one..lol

ps...in regards to Kyle naming his daughter after Natalee. I sent Jug the announcement way back when and he thought that was the sweetest gesture on the part of Kyle.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: SS on December 05, 2008, 12:05:00 AM
I have absolutely no basis for this, but it crossed my mind when I was thinking about Joran and the very real possibility, IMO, that he's going to turn up dead, that maybe that threat is exactly why he called Greta to begin with.

If anything should happen to him in the near future, it wouldn't take a rocket scientist to put 2+2 together.



CBB - I am really fearful that someone will go after Urine before we get the real story.  I'm also concerned that Paulass will do the suicide routine before we get to him, also.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: ldstlou on December 05, 2008, 12:05:52 AM
quote: Ldstlou:

I have to back track..I don't know Dave and have never talked to him, so I really can't say what he believes. I know for a fact what Jug and Beth believe about Kermits theory.


What do they believe? TIA

They don't have Natalee's body. She was not in the cage. The crew of the Persistence did not find Natalee and cover it up...and Jug says he doesn't even understand why it is being discussed..it's ridiculous! I asked if I could post that..he said yes.

I was then asked if he had specifically seen the photos that Kermit was discussing. Lalas e-mailed them to him. I told Jug about the e-mail that Kermit posted from Beth, that Kermit said Beth told her it was ok to expose the cover-up ...as in Persistance finding Natalee and hiding it...you DON'T want to know his response was to that one..lol

So Kermit just came to a wrong conclusion or theory while he was trying to peice things together. Right?

I truely believe that Kermit believes what she is saying. I don't know her, I have absolutely nothing against her at all. Other Monkeys say she is a great Gal..I trust their judgement...but I do believe she came to the wrong conclusion.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: truthseeker2 on December 05, 2008, 12:08:18 AM
I have absolutely no basis for this, but it crossed my mind when I was thinking about Joran and the very real possibility, IMO, that he's going to turn up dead, that maybe that threat is exactly why he called Greta to begin with.

If anything should happen to him in the near future, it wouldn't take a rocket scientist to put 2+2 together.



CBB - I am really fearful that someone will go after Urine before we get the real story.  I'm also concerned that Paulass will do the suicide routine before we get to him, also.

Are you concerned about Paulus and an Aruban suicide...or, a real suicide?  ::MonkeyWink::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Tamikosmom on December 05, 2008, 12:08:44 AM

Again...of course Monkeys are going to explore every possibility!! That is what we do.

But again, what bothers me is posting private e-mails here..I was told long ago..that was a no-no  ::MonkeyNoNo:: Am I wrong?

Let me tell you...I go back and forth with the Kennedy conspiracy too. I see what "factual" show..I believe in conspiracy...see another..makes me doubt it. Same evidence can certainly be interpreted different ways.

But implying that Beth or Dave or Jug, or any of the family believes Natalee was in that cage is absolutely wrong!!! I know that as a fact!

I think it also does a disservice to Tim Miller. That man wanted Natalee found as much as the family did!! No way do I believe he was fooled. I said this before...if you want the facts of what happened...there are enough Monkeys who know Tim well enough...I don't know him at all or I would e-mail him...but enough who do that could clear this up in a sec.

I went straight to Jug...he said she was not in the cage...family does not believe she was in the cage...they don't believe she was found in the cage...and he doesn't even know why it is being discussed...and still it is being said the family has Natalee. Its just not true.

Lou

My take:

Until just prior to Kermit releasing images that were spared from destruction by the ALE ... it is my undrstanding that the FBI and/or Natalee's family knew nothing of their existence ... nobody but Kyle who was attempting make deals with some networks.  I believe that was the whole issue.

Kermit believed that the FBI and/or Natalee's family should have been on the receiving end of these withheld images.  Obviously, Kyle must have believe that there was something significant related to the Natalee Holloway case that was revealed in these images or ... he would not be attempting to make a deal with a network.

Lou ... there were five initial images that Kyle sent to the FBI way back when and ... these were the images that the FBI released to Dave Holloway and ... then his wife posted them on the internet.  However ... the recently released images that Kermit posted had not been sent to the family and/or the FBI.

Lou ... nobody knows what the actual contents of that cage was except the ALE.  However ... the images obtained by the ROV prior to the dive ... convinced Tim Miller there was a skull in that cage

Janet 

++++++++


The following is the first updated compilation of quotes derived from emails communication between Kermit and Kyle.

Janet
________


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #779 11/24/08 -
« Reply #532 on: November 25, 2008, 07:06:45 PM »


From Kyle: march 18, 2008:  If you want, you can get Red from SM off my back. I really don't like that guy. He thinks he knows what's going on but doesn't have a clue. I first saw the pics on the SM home page and fired off an email to Red believing that he would be understanding and help provide answers. I quickly found out what happened on my own and dealt with it. I could not believe his response.

~Kyle

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4179.msg557660#msg557660


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #779 11/24/08 -
« Reply #532 on: November 25, 2008, 07:06:45 PM »


From Kyle: I have not given anything to the FBI since the pictures and statements from Dec 29th

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4179.msg557660#msg557660


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #779 11/24/08 -
« Reply #532 on: November 25, 2008, 07:06:45 PM »


From Kyle: None of us gave any statements to the authorities after the 29th. It's possible John Silvetti did, because he was the only one conversing with them after Jan 7th.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4179.msg557660#msg557660


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #779 11/24/08 -
« Reply #532 on: November 25, 2008, 07:06:45 PM »


From Kyle: May 8, 2008: "I've talked with Peter Shouten numerous times back in February. He hasn't seen anything but knows about the blue fabrics. DeVries and Endemol was interested in purchasing the ROV footage and I was working between them, ABC, and CBS to strike a deal."

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4179.msg557660#msg557660


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #888 on: Today at 02:43:35 AM »


Jan. 7th picture Kyle said: "In case it isn't clear.. notice the blue denim-like fabric”

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564718#msg564718


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #902 on: Today at 03:09:00 AM »


Kyle said: "The Aruban divers were on the police boat, dove from their boat, and returned to their boat."

Kyle said: "They were immediately whisked away by the Aruban police and not seen of again by us on the 7th"

Kyle said: " John stood back and waited and worked with the Aruban Polis"

Kyle said: "John definitely believed the Arubans at their every word"

Kyle said: "John didn't want Tim Miller on board the Persistence because he said Tim wasn't necessary any more and was a liability"

Kyle said: "John told me then he didn't want to hear me ever mention the trap again."

June 10, 2008 = Kyle states: “He's [John Silvetti] seriously making plans to open an Aruba office so he can conduct business easier in S. America and that would allow him to do that."

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564763#msg564763


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #903 on: Today at 03:12:23 AM »


Kyle said: "Schafer is sue crazy."

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564766;topicseen#msg564766


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #897 on: Today at 03:02:28 AM »


Kyle: “I did not feel the same and we had a major difference in opinion. He [John Silvetti] was the one who never pressed ALE to be completely open with us with the trap evidence. I would have forced them to. However, John was the one paying my invoices so I was forced to sit back and hope for the best.”

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564753;topicseen#msg564753


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #883 on: Today at 02:39:52 AM »


Kyle said: " We all know it wasn't a blouse, but I believe they were sent some piece of fabric other than the fabric found inside the trap.”

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564707#msg564707


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #896 on: Today at 03:00:21 AM »


Kyle said: "The blue fabric was found right where the skirt is pictured. If it isn't her, it will forever haunt me as a major cosmic WTF.”

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564748;topicseen#msg564748


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #896 on: Today at 03:00:21 AM »


Kyle said: "We're being fed misinformation to keep us searching and out of their way while they cover their asses, destroy evidence, cover their tracks, and keep us out at sea and away from the trap."

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564748;topicseen#msg564748


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #888 on: Today at 02:43:35 AM »


Jan. 7th picture Kyle said: "In case it isn't clear.. notice the blue denim-like fabric”

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564718#msg564718


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #779 11/24/08 -
« Reply #532 on: Today at 07:06:45 PM »


From Kyle: May 8, 2008: "I've talked with Peter Shouten numerous times back in February. He hasn't seen anything but knows about the blue fabrics. DeVries and Endemol was interested in purchasing the ROV footage and I was working between them, ABC, and CBS to strike a deal."

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4179.msg557660#msg557660


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #882 on: Today at 02:36:28 AM »


Kyle said: "Louis is currently working with someone who I do not know to put together some documentary on the case, the way it was handled, and what happened during the search. I learned this from Tim T. yesterday. Louis was sold on the idea that it will make him a lot of money.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564701;topicseen#msg564701


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #802 on: December 02, 2008, 05:16:26 PM »


Kyle said: “The portion of the discolored blue fabric was presumably on the bottom of the fabric. In my opinion this discoloration is not another type of fabric, but rather biological staining or discoloration from biological growth caused from a high organic carbon content and decay. Basically, during decay a biological mat will form around the organics from remains. This is what I believe it is on the bottom of the fabric.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564125;topicseen#msg564125


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #779 11/24/08 -
« Reply #642 on: November 25, 2008, 10:12:27 PM »


May 8, 2008 = from Kyle: John Silvetti told me today that he may be returning to Aruba very soon for a few days.

May 19, 2008 = from Kyle:
"I couldn't get the logs from the Persistence. All things "Holloway" were stripped from the boat once it got back to Louisiana

JUNE 10, 2008 = from Kyle:
He's [John Silvetti] seriously making plans to open an Aruba office so he can conduct business easier in S. America and that would allow him to do that.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4179.msg557914;topicseen#msg557914


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #779 11/24/08 -
« Reply #635 on: November 25, 2008, 10:06:58 PM »


from Kyle: "It was confirmed by the FBI that they received a fabric sample send by Richardson and that it wasn't a match to Natalee's blouse. I think the video can prove or disprove whatever the FBI was sent was the same object or not. I strongly believe it's blue denim. Everyone I show thinks the same thing without being prompted (including senior ABC execs).

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4179.msg557906;topicseen#msg557906


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
« Reply #663 on: Today at 09:55:44 PM »


Kyle stated: "John is not a believer in the trap. He took ALE's word as gospel that it wasn't case related, yet never studied the videos or bothered to inquire further."

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4186.msg566856;topicseen#msg566856


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: billb's daughter on December 05, 2008, 12:09:16 AM
I posted this late the other night and I want to bring it forward, as I believe both Kermits and CAPS versions can be put together in a way that both may have pieces of truth in the disappearance of Natalee....for what it is worth. MOO
Please understand...I'm not taking sides, and I really feel uncomfortable when I see long time valued Monkeys seemly in disagreement with each other and calling one another out. What I also take away from this post is that, bottom line, Persistence's mission (searching for Natalee) was a success, and FBI is abreast of the situation. I did say that I agreed with the global picture Kermit was promoting, but that does not mean the I unconditionally discard the picture CAPS has pushed forward. In my opinion, pieces of both can mesh together...CAPS vision of the crime, remains found in the cage, possible remains recovered by ALE in Dec/Jan and/or other remains ending up in CAPS cemetery theory.   I do believe remains were moved multiple times. Thanks again. V/r, billb


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Keepthefaith on December 05, 2008, 12:10:28 AM
quote: Ldstlou:

I have to back track..I don't know Dave and have never talked to him, so I really can't say what he believes. I know for a fact what Jug and Beth believe about Kermits theory.


What do they believe? TIA

They don't have Natalee's body. She was not in the cage. The crew of the Persistence did not find Natalee and cover it up...and Jug says he doesn't even understand why it is being discussed..it's ridiculous! I asked if I could post that..he said yes.

I was then asked if he had specifically seen the photos that Kermit was discussing. Lalas e-mailed them to him. I told Jug about the e-mail that Kermit posted from Beth, that Kermit said Beth told her it was ok to expose the cover-up ...as in Persistance finding Natalee and hiding it...you DON'T want to know his response was to that one..lol

So Kermit just came to a wrong conclusion or theory while he was trying to peice things together. Right?

I truely believe that Kermit believes what she is saying. I don't know her, I have absolutely nothing against her at all. Other Monkeys say she is a great Gal..I trust their judgement...but I do believe she came to the wrong conclusion.

The only question i continue to go back to is "IF" no one but ALE has the contents to that cage how does anyone know who or what was in the cage???If no Forensic pathologist tested the contents of the cage to verify if it was human remains,as well as WHO.We will never know!Unless someone DID take portions of the contents and tests were done in private.Makes sense to anyone.Correct me if it seems to far out there!!Anyone


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: ldstlou on December 05, 2008, 12:11:02 AM
I have absolutely no basis for this, but it crossed my mind when I was thinking about Joran and the very real possibility, IMO, that he's going to turn up dead, that maybe that threat is exactly why he called Greta to begin with.

If anything should happen to him in the near future, it wouldn't take a rocket scientist to put 2+2 together.



CBB - I am really fearful that someone will go after Urine before we get the real story.  I'm also concerned that Paulass will do the suicide routine before we get to him, also.

that is a good point. He did say to joran though...you have to think of the rest of us. What is sad, is the younger two brothers must really be suffering...and like them or not, they seem like victims of paulass and joran too. Would he leave his family to face it alone? That is a good question. I just can't guess.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: SS on December 05, 2008, 12:11:22 AM
Let's hope that Urine and Paulass don't have a "cup of coffee" before we get the answers that we need.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: ldstlou on December 05, 2008, 12:13:27 AM
quote: Ldstlou:

I have to back track..I don't know Dave and have never talked to him, so I really can't say what he believes. I know for a fact what Jug and Beth believe about Kermits theory.


What do they believe? TIA

They don't have Natalee's body. She was not in the cage. The crew of the Persistence did not find Natalee and cover it up...and Jug says he doesn't even understand why it is being discussed..it's ridiculous! I asked if I could post that..he said yes.

I was then asked if he had specifically seen the photos that Kermit was discussing. Lalas e-mailed them to him. I told Jug about the e-mail that Kermit posted from Beth, that Kermit said Beth told her it was ok to expose the cover-up ...as in Persistance finding Natalee and hiding it...you DON'T want to know his response was to that one..lol

So Kermit just came to a wrong conclusion or theory while he was trying to peice things together. Right?

I truely believe that Kermit believes what she is saying. I don't know her, I have absolutely nothing against her at all. Other Monkeys say she is a great Gal..I trust their judgement...but I do believe she came to the wrong conclusion.

The only question i continue to go back to is "IF" no one but ALE has the contents to that cage how does anyone know who or what was in the cage???If no Forensic pathologist tested the contents of the cage to verify if it was human remains,as well as WHO.We will never know!Unless someone DID take portions of the contents and tests were done in private.Makes sense to anyone.Correct me if it seems to far out there!!Anyone

That is why I really wish we could hear from Tim on how close he got to the remains. I just think that man was so focused on finding Natalee...and so sure at first that was her...that if there were any doubt it wasn't Natalee...they would have had to pry him from the boat. I don't think he was just given the boot and left before he was certain.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on December 05, 2008, 12:15:03 AM
I have absolutely no basis for this, but it crossed my mind when I was thinking about Joran and the very real possibility, IMO, that he's going to turn up dead, that maybe that threat is exactly why he called Greta to begin with.

If anything should happen to him in the near future, it wouldn't take a rocket scientist to put 2+2 together.



CBB - I am really fearful that someone will go after Urine before we get the real story.  I'm also concerned that Paulass will do the suicide routine before we get to him, also.

Are you concerned about Paulus and an Aruban suicide...or, a real suicide?  ::MonkeyWink::

For my part, I think Paulus is capable of suicide, but I figure somebody's going to off Joran. It may be that Joran decided to expose some folks who would be behind that effort. That sort of thing gets more difficult when the players are exposed. It becomes too easy to know where to look. It's just a thought and I don't have anything to back that up. Just pulling loose threads.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: SS on December 05, 2008, 12:17:10 AM
I have absolutely no basis for this, but it crossed my mind when I was thinking about Joran and the very real possibility, IMO, that he's going to turn up dead, that maybe that threat is exactly why he called Greta to begin with.

If anything should happen to him in the near future, it wouldn't take a rocket scientist to put 2+2 together.



CBB - I am really fearful that someone will go after Urine before we get the real story.  I'm also concerned that Paulass will do the suicide routine before we get to him, also.

Are you concerned about Paulus and an Aruban suicide...or, a real suicide?  ::MonkeyWink::




Either one.  Paulass could take the easy way out now that things are closing in.  He could also be given one of the cups of coffee that Caps said Ruth from the bank drank.  If Paulass sings, a lot of important people will fall.  Urine could also be given one of those cups of coffee to shut him up.  I want both of them very much alive.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Hotshot on December 05, 2008, 12:18:26 AM
From ldstlou:

damned UPS men...what are they good for anyways???!! lol

Again...of course Monkeys are going to explore every possibility!! That is what we do.  Exactly

But again, what bothers me is posting private e-mails here..I was told long ago..that was a no-no   Am I wrong?  You are correct

Let me tell you...I go back and forth with the Kennedy conspiracy too. I see what "factual" show..I believe in conspiracy...see another..makes me doubt it. Same evidence can certainly be interpreted different ways.  Totally agree

But implying that Beth or Dave or Jug, or any of the family believes Natalee was in that cage is absolutely wrong!!! I know that as a fact!  I hope you don't think I was the one that implied that, because I didn't.  That was what I was thinking, not them.

I think it also does a disservice to Tim Miller. That man wanted Natalee found as much as the family did!! Absolutely  No way do I believe he was fooled. Agree there also  I said this before...if you want the facts of what happened...there are enough Monkeys who know Tim well enough...I don't know him at all or I would e-mail him...but enough who do that could clear this up in a sec.  This may not be a time to even discuss this with Tim, all good things come in time.

I went straight to Jug...he said she was not in the cage...family does not believe she was in the cage...they don't believe she was found in the cage...and he doesn't even know why it is being discussed...and still it is being said the family has Natalee. Its just not true.
 It is still being discussed because people wont hang up the pics that were just exposed, and other stuff.  It needs to be left alone IMO

==================================

I wish that Hotshot would let us know exactly where she is getting the information.  I think it would be helpful to everyone
My replies are in red above.....  There has been 3+ years of alot of investigation on our part.  The team members here are good in special ways.  Some talk to people great, some find great info on the web about suspects, some take pictures and clarify them, some go out and do tourism shows, some talk to media.  Together, they all make a whole.  We all have opinions as to what happened, I have my own.  I have gone on what stuck me to be right, you guys go on that also.  My theory doesn't have to be the correct one.  When things come out, and they will, we are all going to say, I focused on that, hey..I knew that.  We all have our own bits and pieces.  No-one is right, no-one is totally wrong.  I wont put my theory out here in full, I don't want to be slammed.  my friends know my theory.  Yes, I have talked to many of the people in this case, as many of us on here have.  I still do.  In the beginning it was cool to come out with something new, the "I got it first" syndrome.  That is not the case anymore.  Like I have been saying, some things just need to surface in time, or it can blow everything up like it has done in the past.  Oh believe me, I would love to spew things, but why hinder anything that might be in the works.  I have been there and done that, and am not too proud of it to say the least.  I think we all need to just sit back, relax, and now watch them bury themselves.  Its now public as far as Rudy, and Jan go.  Joran gave it all a headstart.  Now watch them sweat.  I know Paulus is.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: truthseeker2 on December 05, 2008, 12:19:18 AM
Ss,
I agree.  We need them alive and talking.  It's way past time for them to give it up.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Keepthefaith on December 05, 2008, 12:21:40 AM
quote: Ldstlou:

I have to back track..I don't know Dave and have never talked to him, so I really can't say what he believes. I know for a fact what Jug and Beth believe about Kermits theory.


What do they believe? TIA

They don't have Natalee's body. She was not in the cage. The crew of the Persistence did not find Natalee and cover it up...and Jug says he doesn't even understand why it is being discussed..it's ridiculous! I asked if I could post that..he said yes.

I was then asked if he had specifically seen the photos that Kermit was discussing. Lalas e-mailed them to him. I told Jug about the e-mail that Kermit posted from Beth, that Kermit said Beth told her it was ok to expose the cover-up ...as in Persistance finding Natalee and hiding it...you DON'T want to know his response was to that one..lol

So Kermit just came to a wrong conclusion or theory while he was trying to peice things together. Right?

I truely believe that Kermit believes what she is saying. I don't know her, I have absolutely nothing against her at all. Other Monkeys say she is a great Gal..I trust their judgement...but I do believe she came to the wrong conclusion.

The only question i continue to go back to is "IF" no one but ALE has the contents to that cage how does anyone know who or what was in the cage???If no Forensic pathologist tested the contents of the cage to verify if it was human remains,as well as WHO.We will never know!Unless someone DID take portions of the contents and tests were done in private.Makes sense to anyone.Correct me if it seems to far out there!!Anyone

That is why I really wish we could hear from Tim on how close he got to the remains. I just think that man was so focused on finding Natalee...and so sure at first that was her...that if there were any doubt it wasn't Natalee...they would have had to pry him from the boat. I don't think he was just given the boot and left before he was certain.

Are you speaking of Tim Trahan??If he dove on the contents and said there were no remains prior to the Jan 7th dive from ALE why would ALE dive?These should be simple questions.I believe OE(Kyle) stated that on Jan 7th Ale dove from their own boat and got back into their own boat!Why the need to film and or take pictures when they dove??Why would they come out after it was already signaled there were no remains??Just thoughts...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: ldstlou on December 05, 2008, 12:27:29 AM
Lou

My take:

Until just prior to Kermit releasing images that were spared from destruction by the ALE ... it is my undrstanding that the FBI and/or Natalee's family knew nothing of their existence ... nobody but Kyle who was attempting make deals with some networks.  I believe that was the whole issue.

Why do we believe that FBI or family did not see these? I don't know the dynamics at all of who taped what on the boat...I really don't. Was Kyle doing all the taping? Who hid the images? What was the motive? I would think if you wanted to make $$...there would be MUCh more made IF it truely were Natalee.

I do know that Jug saw them when we e-mailed them to him. So I know they have seen them now...and they still have the same conclusion...Natalee was not in the cage. The family knows much more than we think they know...that I know!! lol If Natalee were in that cage...Beth would be all over it!!!

Kermit believed that the FBI and/or Natalee's family should have been on the receiving end of these withheld images.  Obviously, Kyle must have believe that there was something significant related to the Natalee Holloway case that was revealed in these images or ... he would not be attempting to make a deal with a network.

My understanding is, that they were trying to raise funds to go back and continue the search...there were many targets that were hopeful they did not have the money to look into when they had to quit. That is my understanding of trying to sell the images...it had nothing to do with photos that were kept from the family or FBI.

Lou ... there were five initial images that Kyle sent to the FBI way back when and ... these were the images that the FBI released to Dave Holloway and ... then his wife posted them on the internet.  However ... the recently released images that Kermit posted had not been sent to the family and/or the FBI.

That we know of. Again...Jug was not shocked or alarmed by them. I didn't ask him if he had seen them before..because quite frankly...he thought the whole thing rediculous..and when he does...he makes his point and ends the conversation and moves on to the next point ..lol

Lou ... nobody knows what the actual contents of that cage was except the ALE.  However ... the images obtained by the ROV prior to the dive ... convinced Tim Miller there was a skull in that cage

But something else caused him to go on National tv...and with a broken heart...admit he had jumped the gun..and to say his biggest regret was jumping the gun and calling Dave before he was absolutely sure. Do you remember that interview? I wish we could find it again

Janet 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: ldstlou on December 05, 2008, 12:29:08 AM
quote: Ldstlou:

I have to back track..I don't know Dave and have never talked to him, so I really can't say what he believes. I know for a fact what Jug and Beth believe about Kermits theory.


What do they believe? TIA

They don't have Natalee's body. She was not in the cage. The crew of the Persistence did not find Natalee and cover it up...and Jug says he doesn't even understand why it is being discussed..it's ridiculous! I asked if I could post that..he said yes.

I was then asked if he had specifically seen the photos that Kermit was discussing. Lalas e-mailed them to him. I told Jug about the e-mail that Kermit posted from Beth, that Kermit said Beth told her it was ok to expose the cover-up ...as in Persistance finding Natalee and hiding it...you DON'T want to know his response was to that one..lol

So Kermit just came to a wrong conclusion or theory while he was trying to peice things together. Right?

I truely believe that Kermit believes what she is saying. I don't know her, I have absolutely nothing against her at all. Other Monkeys say she is a great Gal..I trust their judgement...but I do believe she came to the wrong conclusion.

The only question i continue to go back to is "IF" no one but ALE has the contents to that cage how does anyone know who or what was in the cage???If no Forensic pathologist tested the contents of the cage to verify if it was human remains,as well as WHO.We will never know!Unless someone DID take portions of the contents and tests were done in private.Makes sense to anyone.Correct me if it seems to far out there!!Anyone

That is why I really wish we could hear from Tim on how close he got to the remains. I just think that man was so focused on finding Natalee...and so sure at first that was her...that if there were any doubt it wasn't Natalee...they would have had to pry him from the boat. I don't think he was just given the boot and left before he was certain.

Are you speaking of Tim Trahan??If he dove on the contents and said there were no remains prior to the Jan 7th dive from ALE why would ALE dive?These should be simple questions.I believe OE(Kyle) stated that on Jan 7th Ale dove from their own boat and got back into their own boat!Why the need to film and or take pictures when they dove??Why would they come out after it was already signaled there were no remains??Just thoughts...

Tim Miller


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: ldstlou on December 05, 2008, 12:34:02 AM
From ldstlou:

damned UPS men...what are they good for anyways???!! lol

Again...of course Monkeys are going to explore every possibility!! That is what we do.  Exactly

But again, what bothers me is posting private e-mails here..I was told long ago..that was a no-no   Am I wrong?  You are correct

Let me tell you...I go back and forth with the Kennedy conspiracy too. I see what "factual" show..I believe in conspiracy...see another..makes me doubt it. Same evidence can certainly be interpreted different ways.  Totally agree

But implying that Beth or Dave or Jug, or any of the family believes Natalee was in that cage is absolutely wrong!!! I know that as a fact!  I hope you don't think I was the one that implied that, because I didn't.  That was what I was thinking, not them.

I think it also does a disservice to Tim Miller. That man wanted Natalee found as much as the family did!! Absolutely  No way do I believe he was fooled. Agree there also  I said this before...if you want the facts of what happened...there are enough Monkeys who know Tim well enough...I don't know him at all or I would e-mail him...but enough who do that could clear this up in a sec.  This may not be a time to even discuss this with Tim, all good things come in time.

I went straight to Jug...he said she was not in the cage...family does not believe she was in the cage...they don't believe she was found in the cage...and he doesn't even know why it is being discussed...and still it is being said the family has Natalee. Its just not true.
 It is still being discussed because people wont hang up the pics that were just exposed, and other stuff.  It needs to be left alone IMO

==================================

I wish that Hotshot would let us know exactly where she is getting the information.  I think it would be helpful to everyone
My replies are in red above.....  There has been 3+ years of alot of investigation on our part.  The team members here are good in special ways.  Some talk to people great, some find great info on the web about suspects, some take pictures and clarify them, some go out and do tourism shows, some talk to media.  Together, they all make a whole.  We all have opinions as to what happened, I have my own.  I have gone on what stuck me to be right, you guys go on that also.  My theory doesn't have to be the correct one.  When things come out, and they will, we are all going to say, I focused on that, hey..I knew that.  We all have our own bits and pieces.  No-one is right, no-one is totally wrong.  I wont put my theory out here in full, I don't want to be slammed.  my friends know my theory.  Yes, I have talked to many of the people in this case, as many of us on here have.  I still do.  In the beginning it was cool to come out with something new, the "I got it first" syndrome.  That is not the case anymore.  Like I have been saying, some things just need to surface in time, or it can blow everything up like it has done in the past.  Oh believe me, I would love to spew things, but why hinder anything that might be in the works.  I have been there and done that, and am not too proud of it to say the least.  I think we all need to just sit back, relax, and now watch them bury themselves.  Its now public as far as Rudy, and Jan go.  Joran gave it all a headstart.  Now watch them sweat.  I know Paulus is.

Hey Sweetie!! Long time no see!!

I was actually talking about Kermit's views in my post. I haven't read yours yet!!! lol I really haven't gotten that far in catching up yet.
I did have to backtrack though Hotshot and say I don't know Dave...can't speak for him at all...but I did talk to Jug, and continue to tell him about Kermit's view, and that is what I was referring to.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: AZLady on December 05, 2008, 12:42:00 AM
Hi Monkeys.  I've been reading back... and back...and back.  Whew!  Interesting stuff.  I have to say I agree with Tamikosmom's assessment.  This is very puzzling.  We either have to conclude that the cover up extended to the Aruban processing of the cage contents, or we have to entertain the concept of a huge conspiracy, rather of the counter-spy variety.  Should we keep our silence and "trust" that the conspirators will reveal all in time?  Ha, ha, ha.  This is not the monkey way, for sure.  Actually, I find it more logical that the coverup extended all the way from June, 2005, to the present, including the processing of the cage contents.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Frank on December 05, 2008, 12:45:53 AM
If Jan van der straaten is covering up, what do you call what Hans Mos isn't not doing alot of?

jan van der straaten "saw" the evidence. And he didn't see it on the beach.

the next wall to break down is focus on where she died, the van der sloot house.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Tamikosmom on December 05, 2008, 12:47:17 AM
Lou ... I am personally going to get to the bottom of all this issue once and for all.  I am not going to discuss this topic again on the forum until or if I have something to report.

GOOD NIGHT MY FRIEND!  GOOD NIGHT MONKEYS!  GOOD NIGHT ZOO GEEPERS!

Janet

_______


Miller/Dave Holloway
NBC DATELINE
February 22, 2008


And on Dec. 29 the crew dropped a remote operated vehicle, or ROV, into the water to get a closer look.
 
Tim Miller: It looked like a skull. Still looks like a skull.  

Chris Hansen: So, you're thinking-- you're thinking at this point--
Tim Miller: I’m thinking at this point, "Oh, my God, maybe we've got something. Maybe we've got something."

Could they have found her? Or was hope, perhaps, making them see what they wanted to see?

(on the boat)

Tim Miller: In my years of searching we have seen several bodies, skeletal remains--I have seen my own daughter's skeletal remains.  I can’t help but believe at this moment that that is human remains in that crab trap.
<snipped>

Dave Holloway: He (Miller) told me, he said, "Dave, we found her."

Chris Hansen: "We found her?"
 
Dave Holloway: Yeah. I said, "Are you sure?" and he said, "I’m 99.9 percent sure." He said, "We hadn't gone down and dove under or anything. But the photographs--" he said, "I tell you, Dave." I-- he said, "That's what we're looking for. And that's gotta -- that -- that's it."  

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23301056/page/4/


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #902 on: Today at 03:09:00 AM »


Kyle said:  "John didn't want Tim Miller on board the Persistence because he said Tim wasn't necessary any more and was a liability"

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564763#msg564763


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: SS on December 05, 2008, 12:47:21 AM
Lou

My take:

Until just prior to Kermit releasing images that were spared from destruction by the ALE ... it is my undrstanding that the FBI and/or Natalee's family knew nothing of their existence ... nobody but Kyle who was attempting make deals with some networks.  I believe that was the whole issue.

Why do we believe that FBI or family did not see these? I don't know the dynamics at all of who taped what on the boat...I really don't. Was Kyle doing all the taping? Who hid the images? What was the motive? I would think if you wanted to make $$...there would be MUCh more made IF it truely were Natalee.

I do know that Jug saw them when we e-mailed them to him. So I know they have seen them now...and they still have the same conclusion...Natalee was not in the cage. The family knows much more than we think they know...that I know!! lol If Natalee were in that cage...Beth would be all over it!!!

Kermit believed that the FBI and/or Natalee's family should have been on the receiving end of these withheld images.  Obviously, Kyle must have believe that there was something significant related to the Natalee Holloway case that was revealed in these images or ... he would not be attempting to make a deal with a network.

My understanding is, that they were trying to raise funds to go back and continue the search...there were many targets that were hopeful they did not have the money to look into when they had to quit. That is my understanding of trying to sell the images...it had nothing to do with photos that were kept from the family or FBI.

Lou ... there were five initial images that Kyle sent to the FBI way back when and ... these were the images that the FBI released to Dave Holloway and ... then his wife posted them on the internet.  However ... the recently released images that Kermit posted had not been sent to the family and/or the FBI.

That we know of. Again...Jug was not shocked or alarmed by them. I didn't ask him if he had seen them before..because quite frankly...he thought the whole thing rediculous..and when he does...he makes his point and ends the conversation and moves on to the next point ..lol

Lou ... nobody knows what the actual contents of that cage was except the ALE.  However ... the images obtained by the ROV prior to the dive ... convinced Tim Miller there was a skull in that cage

But something else caused him to go on National tv...and with a broken heart...admit he had jumped the gun..and to say his biggest regret was jumping the gun and calling Dave before he was absolutely sure. Do you remember that interview? I wish we could find it again

Janet 





Lou -

I think we are all in agreement that the original five photographs were sent to the family and they were posted by Robin on BFN.  I think Kermit's issue is that there were/are additional photographs that clearly show denim, etc.  This was not clear in the original five photographs.  I am not trying to speak for Kermit, but rather explain what I interpreted that she was telling us.  I think her concerns were that Kyle, himself, was initially concerned that information had not been shared with the H/Ts and the FBI.  I have understood that Kyle approached Kermit for help in getting this information to the family and the FBI.  However, according to Kermit, Kyle changed his mind and instead withheld the additional photographs.  Kyle also reported to Kermit that Louis had sold photographs for a documentary and Kyle attempted to broker photographs.  I could be incorrect, but I interpreted what Kermit said as she (Kermit) was the one who gave Beth the remaining photographs after Kyle chose not to.  I think that this is the big problem here and more so than the debate as to whether or not Natalee's remains were in the cage.  I think that the big issue is that information/photographs were withheld from the family and the FBI, and that because ALE has possession of the cage contents, there is no way to know what was actually in the cage.  I have intrepeted this as the big issue here.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: AZLady on December 05, 2008, 12:47:51 AM
I do think we are watching an Aruban power struggle of huge proportions.  Remember when Oduber was elected, he very shortly tried to move Rudy Croes to a different ministerial position?  One with less power.  Croes won and stayed as Minister of Justice.  I think Croes outing his own Police Chief, Van der Stratten, as corrupt is an attempt to provide a scapegoat.  The corruption goes all the way to and includes Rudy Croes.  Croes is trying to save his own skin by throwing Van der Stratten and others to the mob.  It won't work. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on December 05, 2008, 12:51:25 AM
One of the burning questions in my mind is this:

OK, we have people who know what happened pointing fingers at each other.

No question there has been SLOW and TEDIOUS progress and none of it from any law enforcement official in this entire case. Progress has come from DeVries and Joran's motor mouth. BUT, I can't discount that at this juncture, the world has heard Joran admit he has involvement in Natalee's demise. That's a far cry from where this case once was.

So, what now? Will anything come of it?

That's my burning question.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: billb's daughter on December 05, 2008, 12:51:43 AM
I posted this late the other night and I want to bring it forward, as I believe both Kermits and CAPS versions can be put together in a way that both may have pieces of truth in the disappearance of Natalee....for what it is worth. MOO
Please understand...I'm not taking sides, and I really feel uncomfortable when I see long time valued Monkeys seemly in disagreement with each other and calling one another out. What I also take away from this post is that, bottom line, Persistence's mission (searching for Natalee) was a success, and FBI is abreast of the situation. I did say that I agreed with the global picture Kermit was promoting, but that does not mean the I unconditionally discard the picture CAPS has pushed forward. In my opinion, pieces of both can mesh together...CAPS vision of the crime, remains found in the cage, possible remains recovered by ALE in Dec/Jan and/or other remains ending up in CAPS cemetery theory.   I do believe remains were moved multiple times. Thanks again. V/r, billb
I'll just keep posting late at night....no one argues with my theories and I feel good knowing that everyone accepts my brilliance! LOL ::MonkeyHaHa::
I am excited by the apparent meltdown being exhibited by rudy, mos...pressure turned up by Greta(got to admit-I really couldn't forgive or watch her after she was inclined - but she is wining me back)/JQK and hope it truly does root out all those that covered up (kj, jvds, pdvs, king, witt, rudy, pm, dompig, richardson, mos, pimps and enabling parents....just to name a few...)...Holland-where r u?
I hate them all.....


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: AZLady on December 05, 2008, 12:52:17 AM
SS, add to your assessment that the pics show pieces of a blue denim fabric--named as such by Kyle.  The FBI was not sent blue denim fabric, but a fabric they said did not match Natalee's blouse.  It appears the FBI did not receive what is seen in the pics that Kermit posted and Kyle said he saw.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Agraria on December 05, 2008, 12:52:48 AM
Rudy Croes is a politician, and they go with the way the wind blows and hopefully are a little ahead of the wind.

Rudy may be reading the tea leaves and wants to premptively get ahead of what's coming. I don't think this is a giant coordinated conspiracy. It is a lot of sewn together CYA's but if someone in Holland is interested, no doubt people in Aruba don't want to be on the wrong end of someone's wrath.

And that changes and could be changing. If Rudy Croes backs off, it's because whoever holds sway at the moment, is asking him to. If not, maybe the Aruba budget has been moved to someone else's P&L.

Frank...very possibly . Did you read this today? I thought it was very interesting. Has the heat been turned up til they are all finally turning on each other?

http://www.radionetherlands.nl/currentaffairs/region/netherlands/081204-Holloway-Croes

Police officer thwarted Holloway investigation

RNW NEWS

04-12-2008

Dutch police commissioner Jan van der Straten actively frustrated investigations on the island of Aruba into the disappearance of US teenager Natalee Holloway.

Minister Rudy Croes
Rudy Croes: critical
Aruba's Justice Minister Rudy Croes confirmed on Thursday that Van der Straten delayed the start of investigations in order to protect his friend, Paulus van der Sloot, the father of Joran who is the main suspect in the case. Paulus was working for the Justice Ministry at the time.

Minister Croes made his public statement about the commissioner's dallying following critical remarks by Van der Straten about Aruba's police. Shortly after Natalee's disappearance in 2005, the Dutch police commissioner was overheard saying "I cannot do this to my friend Paul".

The Justice Minister says there were remarkably frequent phone conversations between Jan van der Straten and Paul van der Sloot in the first days after the American teenager went missing.

Carnival policemen
In more detailed criticism, Minister Croes accuses Commissioner Van der Straten of putting a "second rate police team" on the Holloway case. The team consisted of part-time policemen who are hired in to help the regular force during events like carnivals.

The Dutch government is also blamed by Minister Croes for giving insufficient moral support to the Aruban authorities:
"They stand by while Aruba's name is being dragged through the mud. We were asked in 2005 to hide the fact that Joran is a Dutchman. A Dutch minister - I won't say who - personally asked us to present Joran as an Aruban."

Justice Minister Rudy Croes is known for his critical attitude towards the Dutch, Aruba's former coloniser. He said in 2007 that he was in favour of breaking off Aruba's relations with the Netherlands. The statement caused an uproar, coming as it did while negotiations with the Netherlands were going on.

A new political division of the Kingdom of the Netherlands will come into force on 15 December 2010. Aruba will remain a separate country within the Kingdom.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: AZLady on December 05, 2008, 12:55:24 AM
One of the burning questions in my mind is this:

OK, we have people who know what happened pointing fingers at each other.

No question there has been SLOW and TEDIOUS progress and none of it from any law enforcement official in this entire case. Progress has come from DeVries and Joran's motor mouth. BUT, I can't discount that at this juncture, the world has heard Joran admit he has involvement in Natalee's demise. That's a far cry from where this case once was.

So, what now? Will anything come of it?

That's my burning question.


It does look like Joran was exiled from Aruba, his family and friends, and his patience ran out.  We knew he would explode one day.  I think Joran feels he's thrown down the gauntlet but he's really opened the can of worms and shaken them out.  Justice is so close.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Tamikosmom on December 05, 2008, 12:55:39 AM

Lou -

I think we are all in agreement that the original five photographs were sent to the family and they were posted by Robin on BFN.  I think Kermit's issue is that there were/are additional photographs that clearly show denim, etc.  This was not clear in the original five photographs.  I am not trying to speak for Kermit, but rather explain what I interpreted that she was telling us.  I think her concerns were that Kyle, himself, was initially concerned that information had not been shared with the H/Ts and the FBI.  I have understood that Kyle approached Kermit for help in getting this information to the family and the FBI.  However, according to Kermit, Kyle changed his mind and instead withheld the additional photographs.  Kyle also reported to Kermit that Louis had sold photographs for a documentary and Kyle attempted to broker photographs.  I could be incorrect, but I interpreted what Kermit said as she (Kermit) was the one who gave Beth the remaining photographs after Kyle chose not to.  I think that this is the big problem here and more so than the debate as to whether or not Natalee's remains were in the cage.  I think that the big issue is that information/photographs were withheld from the family and the FBI, and that because ALE has possession of the cage contents, there is no way to know what was actually in the cage.  I have intrepeted this as the big issue here.


Thanks you SS.

Good Night. ::MonkeyHaHa::

I really am off this time.

Janet



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: SS on December 05, 2008, 12:56:26 AM
I posted this late the other night and I want to bring it forward, as I believe both Kermits and CAPS versions can be put together in a way that both may have pieces of truth in the disappearance of Natalee....for what it is worth. MOO
Please understand...I'm not taking sides, and I really feel uncomfortable when I see long time valued Monkeys seemly in disagreement with each other and calling one another out. What I also take away from this post is that, bottom line, Persistence's mission (searching for Natalee) was a success, and FBI is abreast of the situation. I did say that I agreed with the global picture Kermit was promoting, but that does not mean the I unconditionally discard the picture CAPS has pushed forward. In my opinion, pieces of both can mesh together...CAPS vision of the crime, remains found in the cage, possible remains recovered by ALE in Dec/Jan and/or other remains ending up in CAPS cemetery theory.   I do believe remains were moved multiple times. Thanks again. V/r, billb
I'll just keep posting late at night....no one argues with my theories and I feel good knowing that everyone accepts my brilliance! LOL ::MonkeyHaHa::
I am excited by the apparent meltdown being exhibited by rudy, mos...pressure turned up by Greta(got to admit-I really couldn't forgive or watch her after she was inclined - but she is wining me back)/JQK and hope it truly does root out all those that covered up (kj, jvds, pdvs, king, witt, rudy, pm, dompig, richardson, mos, pimps and enabling parents....just to name a few...)...Holland-where r u?
I hate them all.....




You sound like robots!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: ldstlou on December 05, 2008, 12:56:42 AM
Lou ... I am personally going to get to the bottom of all this issue once and for all.  I am not going to discuss this topic again on the forum until or if I have something to report.

GOOD NIGHT MY FRIEND!  GOOD NIGHT MONKEYS!  GOOD NIGHT ZOO GEEPERS!

Janet

_______


Miller/Dave Holloway
NBC DATELINE
February 22, 2008


And on Dec. 29 the crew dropped a remote operated vehicle, or ROV, into the water to get a closer look.
 
Tim Miller: It looked like a skull. Still looks like a skull.  

Chris Hansen: So, you're thinking-- you're thinking at this point--
Tim Miller: I’m thinking at this point, "Oh, my God, maybe we've got something. Maybe we've got something."

Could they have found her? Or was hope, perhaps, making them see what they wanted to see?

(on the boat)

Tim Miller: In my years of searching we have seen several bodies, skeletal remains--I have seen my own daughter's skeletal remains.  I can’t help but believe at this moment that that is human remains in that crab trap.
<snipped>

Dave Holloway: He (Miller) told me, he said, "Dave, we found her."

Chris Hansen: "We found her?"
 
Dave Holloway: Yeah. I said, "Are you sure?" and he said, "I’m 99.9 percent sure." He said, "We hadn't gone down and dove under or anything. But the photographs--" he said, "I tell you, Dave." I-- he said, "That's what we're looking for. And that's gotta -- that -- that's it."  

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23301056/page/4/


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #902 on: Today at 03:09:00 AM »


Kyle said:  "John didn't want Tim Miller on board the Persistence because he said Tim wasn't necessary any more and was a liability"

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564763#msg564763


Night Sweetie!!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: caesu on December 05, 2008, 12:57:51 AM
Quote
Cover-up at the Top?

Aruba's minister of justice reportedly claimed that the police commissioner hampered the investigation into Natalee Holloway's disappearance to protect his friend - suspect Joran van der Sloot's father.

http://www.foxnews.com/video/index.html?playerId=videolandingpage&streamingFormat=FLASH&referralObject=3265793&referralPlaylistId=df5603c3d11ca9a023b0070cfc5f297e279fd3a7

http://www.foxnews.com/video/index.html?playerId=videolandingpage&streamingFormat=FLASH&referralObject=3265797&referralPlaylistId=playlist

Greta van Susteren should invite Peter R. de Vries or Hero Brinkman on the show via phone or video connection.

this will get reported on Dutch news the next day. when Peter R. de Vries went in Larry King, FOX, and more - it was got reported extensively on Dutch TV. they think their little country has some importance and are proud Peter R. de Vries.  ::MonkeyCool::
but this time Dutch people will feel embarrassed and demand action from there politicians.
at least i do. but i know many more do. but it media outrage needs to build up.

yesterday was the first time is saw Rudy Croes name mentioned on Dutch TV.
i bet many Dutch people don't even know Aruba has it's own Justice Minister.

not wanting to get political here.
but with Bush as President many Dutchies/Europeans wouldn't mind if some Americans called them names or called for a boycott. they just called some unrelated random abuse back.

but now with Obama (he is VERY popular in Holland/Europa) i think they will feel more embarrassed and ashamed of the lack of action of their Dutch government.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: ldstlou on December 05, 2008, 12:58:44 AM
I posted this late the other night and I want to bring it forward, as I believe both Kermits and CAPS versions can be put together in a way that both may have pieces of truth in the disappearance of Natalee....for what it is worth. MOO
Please understand...I'm not taking sides, and I really feel uncomfortable when I see long time valued Monkeys seemly in disagreement with each other and calling one another out. What I also take away from this post is that, bottom line, Persistence's mission (searching for Natalee) was a success, and FBI is abreast of the situation. I did say that I agreed with the global picture Kermit was promoting, but that does not mean the I unconditionally discard the picture CAPS has pushed forward. In my opinion, pieces of both can mesh together...CAPS vision of the crime, remains found in the cage, possible remains recovered by ALE in Dec/Jan and/or other remains ending up in CAPS cemetery theory.   I do believe remains were moved multiple times. Thanks again. V/r, billb
I'll just keep posting late at night....no one argues with my theories and I feel good knowing that everyone accepts my brilliance! LOL ::MonkeyHaHa::
I am excited by the apparent meltdown being exhibited by rudy, mos...pressure turned up by Greta(got to admit-I really couldn't forgive or watch her after she was inclined - but she is wining me back)/JQK and hope it truly does root out all those that covered up (kj, jvds, pdvs, king, witt, rudy, pm, dompig, richardson, mos, pimps and enabling parents....just to name a few...)...Holland-where r u?
I hate them all.....

roflmao!!!!

I agree!!! It does appear to be a meltdown!!! Lets hope it keeps up!!!

Night Monkeys...waaaay past my bedtime!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on December 05, 2008, 12:59:03 AM
One of the burning questions in my mind is this:

OK, we have people who know what happened pointing fingers at each other.

No question there has been SLOW and TEDIOUS progress and none of it from any law enforcement official in this entire case. Progress has come from DeVries and Joran's motor mouth. BUT, I can't discount that at this juncture, the world has heard Joran admit he has involvement in Natalee's demise. That's a far cry from where this case once was.

So, what now? Will anything come of it?

That's my burning question.


It does look like Joran was exiled from Aruba, his family and friends, and his patience ran out.  We knew he would explode one day.  I think Joran feels he's thrown down the gauntlet but he's really opened the can of worms and shaken them out.  Justice is so close.

I just keep wondering if there is anyone to bring it on home, AZ.

I can think of reasons Joran would have made up this whole latest story, but, to me, finding Natalee or her remains seems to have become more important than ever.

Joran's lips were moving so you know lies were being told, but I really wish somebody other than Joran would just talk.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: ldstlou on December 05, 2008, 01:00:09 AM
One of the burning questions in my mind is this:

OK, we have people who know what happened pointing fingers at each other.

No question there has been SLOW and TEDIOUS progress and none of it from any law enforcement official in this entire case. Progress has come from DeVries and Joran's motor mouth. BUT, I can't discount that at this juncture, the world has heard Joran admit he has involvement in Natalee's demise. That's a far cry from where this case once was.

So, what now? Will anything come of it?

That's my burning question.


I hope so CBB...I hope we are at the point beyond retractions. I think Rudy crossed the line of no return!! joran too!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: AZLady on December 05, 2008, 01:00:30 AM
However, Rudy Croes tars himself with the same brush when he accuses Van der Straaten of corruption.  Rudy was aware of the phone calls between Van der Straaten and Van der Sloot in 2005.  Rudy knew the relationship between the two and that it would be a conflict of interest.  Rudy tried to replace Van der Straaten with Dompig and then Van der Straaten again took over the case.  Why?  Who pulled rank on Rudy Croes?  Or who had him by the ear? 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: billb's daughter on December 05, 2008, 01:01:26 AM
I posted this late the other night and I want to bring it forward, as I believe both Kermits and CAPS versions can be put together in a way that both may have pieces of truth in the disappearance of Natalee....for what it is worth. MOO
Please understand...I'm not taking sides, and I really feel uncomfortable when I see long time valued Monkeys seemly in disagreement with each other and calling one another out. What I also take away from this post is that, bottom line, Persistence's mission (searching for Natalee) was a success, and FBI is abreast of the situation. I did say that I agreed with the global picture Kermit was promoting, but that does not mean the I unconditionally discard the picture CAPS has pushed forward. In my opinion, pieces of both can mesh together...CAPS vision of the crime, remains found in the cage, possible remains recovered by ALE in Dec/Jan and/or other remains ending up in CAPS cemetery theory.   I do believe remains were moved multiple times. Thanks again. V/r, billb
I'll just keep posting late at night....no one argues with my theories and I feel good knowing that everyone accepts my brilliance! LOL ::MonkeyHaHa::
I am excited by the apparent meltdown being exhibited by rudy, mos...pressure turned up by Greta(got to admit-I really couldn't forgive or watch her after she was inclined - but she is wining me back)/JQK and hope it truly does root out all those that covered up (kj, jvds, pdvs, king, witt, rudy, pm, dompig, richardson, mos, pimps and enabling parents....just to name a few...)...Holland-where r u?
I hate them all.....




You sound like robots!
::MonkeyCool:: I miss Robots positive outlook.The glass is always half full. never half empty...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on December 05, 2008, 01:03:18 AM
Quote
Cover-up at the Top?

Aruba's minister of justice reportedly claimed that the police commissioner hampered the investigation into Natalee Holloway's disappearance to protect his friend - suspect Joran van der Sloot's father.

http://www.foxnews.com/video/index.html?playerId=videolandingpage&streamingFormat=FLASH&referralObject=3265793&referralPlaylistId=df5603c3d11ca9a023b0070cfc5f297e279fd3a7

http://www.foxnews.com/video/index.html?playerId=videolandingpage&streamingFormat=FLASH&referralObject=3265797&referralPlaylistId=playlist

Greta van Susteren should invite Peter R. de Vries or Hero Brinkman on the show via phone or video connection.

this will get reported on Dutch news the next day. when Peter R. de Vries went in Larry King, FOX, and more - it was got reported extensively on Dutch TV. they think their little country has some importance and are proud Peter R. de Vries.  ::MonkeyCool::
but this time Dutch people will feel embarrassed and demand action from there politicians.
at least i do. but i know many more do. but it media outrage needs to build up.

yesterday was the first time is saw Rudy Croes name mentioned on Dutch TV.
i bet many Dutch people don't even know Aruba has it's own Justice Minister.

not wanting to get political here.
but with Bush as President many Dutchies/Europeans wouldn't mind if some Americans called them names or called for a boycott. they just called some unrelated random abuse back.

but now with Obama (he is VERY popular in Holland/Europa) i think they will feel more embarrassed and ashamed of the lack of action of their Dutch government.

Well if it takes a popular president to give anyone a conscience about an innocent girl on a Senior trip, then that speaks far more about the citizens of Holland than it does about any US president.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: AZLady on December 05, 2008, 01:04:45 AM
I've said for a long, long time that the only way the truth will be known is if an international investigation takes place into the corruption on Aruba.  Interpol is the logical body to investigate.  Will the Dutch request outside help?  We'll see.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: klaasend on December 05, 2008, 01:07:08 AM
I posted this late the other night and I want to bring it forward, as I believe both Kermits and CAPS versions can be put together in a way that both may have pieces of truth in the disappearance of Natalee....for what it is worth. MOO
Please understand...I'm not taking sides, and I really feel uncomfortable when I see long time valued Monkeys seemly in disagreement with each other and calling one another out. What I also take away from this post is that, bottom line, Persistence's mission (searching for Natalee) was a success, and FBI is abreast of the situation. I did say that I agreed with the global picture Kermit was promoting, but that does not mean the I unconditionally discard the picture CAPS has pushed forward. In my opinion, pieces of both can mesh together...CAPS vision of the crime, remains found in the cage, possible remains recovered by ALE in Dec/Jan and/or other remains ending up in CAPS cemetery theory.   I do believe remains were moved multiple times. Thanks again. V/r, billb
I'll just keep posting late at night....no one argues with my theories and I feel good knowing that everyone accepts my brilliance! LOL ::MonkeyHaHa::
I am excited by the apparent meltdown being exhibited by rudy, mos...pressure turned up by Greta(got to admit-I really couldn't forgive or watch her after she was inclined - but she is wining me back)/JQK and hope it truly does root out all those that covered up (kj, jvds, pdvs, king, witt, rudy, pm, dompig, richardson, mos, pimps and enabling parents....just to name a few...)...Holland-where r u?
I hate them all.....

I with you Billb  ::MonkeyCool::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on December 05, 2008, 01:08:26 AM
For Old Time's Sake:


I HATE THEM ALL!!!!!

(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c100/crazybabyborgs/crb3.gif)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: AZLady on December 05, 2008, 01:08:43 AM
There's been a lot of money and political influence moving through Aruba for decades.  The money and power base on the island don't want to give up easily.  I believe they will sacrifice some key players who are really not such an asset to the organization if they can get away with it.  Some people will go down, but it will be interesting to see how far they will go.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Frank on December 05, 2008, 01:09:37 AM
Does anyone have a picture of Janssen at the beach in her heels, I need it.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on December 05, 2008, 01:11:50 AM
Greta segment repeat coming up on Fox.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: AZLady on December 05, 2008, 01:11:52 AM
Interesting that Croes was willing to give up Van der Stratten as corrupt, but he didn't mention anyone else, did he?  Karen Janssen worked so closely with PVDS, in the same offices, even.  Didn't he have access to her office?  No mention of her, yet. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: caesu on December 05, 2008, 01:15:50 AM
Quote
Cover-up at the Top?

Aruba's minister of justice reportedly claimed that the police commissioner hampered the investigation into Natalee Holloway's disappearance to protect his friend - suspect Joran van der Sloot's father.

http://www.foxnews.com/video/index.html?playerId=videolandingpage&streamingFormat=FLASH&referralObject=3265793&referralPlaylistId=df5603c3d11ca9a023b0070cfc5f297e279fd3a7

http://www.foxnews.com/video/index.html?playerId=videolandingpage&streamingFormat=FLASH&referralObject=3265797&referralPlaylistId=playlist

Greta van Susteren should invite Peter R. de Vries or Hero Brinkman on the show via phone or video connection.

this will get reported on Dutch news the next day. when Peter R. de Vries went in Larry King, FOX, and more - it was got reported extensively on Dutch TV. they think their little country has some importance and are proud Peter R. de Vries.  ::MonkeyCool::
but this time Dutch people will feel embarrassed and demand action from there politicians.
at least i do. but i know many more do. but it media outrage needs to build up.

yesterday was the first time is saw Rudy Croes name mentioned on Dutch TV.
i bet many Dutch people don't even know Aruba has it's own Justice Minister.

not wanting to get political here.
but with Bush as President many Dutchies/Europeans wouldn't mind if some Americans called them names or called for a boycott. they just called some unrelated random abuse back.

but now with Obama (he is VERY popular in Holland/Europa) i think they will feel more embarrassed and ashamed of the lack of action of their Dutch government.

Well if it takes a popular president to give anyone a conscience about an innocent girl on a Senior trip, then that speaks far more about the citizens of Holland than it does about any US president.

well, there are ignorant people everywhere.
but many here are embarrassed and are demanding action.
Joran is the most hated person.

but i just see opportunities here.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Agraria on December 05, 2008, 01:16:00 AM
One of the burning questions in my mind is this:

OK, we have people who know what happened pointing fingers at each other.

No question there has been SLOW and TEDIOUS progress and none of it from any law enforcement official in this entire case. Progress has come from DeVries and Joran's motor mouth. BUT, I can't discount that at this juncture, the world has heard Joran admit he has involvement in Natalee's demise. That's a far cry from where this case once was.

So, what now? Will anything come of it?

That's my burning question.


It does look like Joran was exiled from Aruba, his family and friends, and his patience ran out.  We knew he would explode one day.  I think Joran feels he's thrown down the gauntlet but he's really opened the can of worms and shaken them out.  Justice is so close.


He HAS thrown down the gauntlet...but in those circles...that usually means a mysterious death or disappearance. Joran has been allowed to be so narcissitic, he may think HE will always be protected. What will happen if he has finally pushed them too far this time? He has named too many and he does know the rest of the story we seek. There is no way they will allow him to go any further. Just wondering what's next...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: billb's daughter on December 05, 2008, 01:19:08 AM
I posted this late the other night and I want to bring it forward, as I believe both Kermits and CAPS versions can be put together in a way that both may have pieces of truth in the disappearance of Natalee....for what it is worth. MOO
Please understand...I'm not taking sides, and I really feel uncomfortable when I see long time valued Monkeys seemly in disagreement with each other and calling one another out. What I also take away from this post is that, bottom line, Persistence's mission (searching for Natalee) was a success, and FBI is abreast of the situation. I did say that I agreed with the global picture Kermit was promoting, but that does not mean the I unconditionally discard the picture CAPS has pushed forward. In my opinion, pieces of both can mesh together...CAPS vision of the crime, remains found in the cage, possible remains recovered by ALE in Dec/Jan and/or other remains ending up in CAPS cemetery theory.   I do believe remains were moved multiple times. Thanks again. V/r, billb
I'll just keep posting late at night....no one argues with my theories and I feel good knowing that everyone accepts my brilliance! LOL ::MonkeyHaHa::
I am excited by the apparent meltdown being exhibited by rudy, mos...pressure turned up by Greta(got to admit-I really couldn't forgive or watch her after she was inclined - but she is wining me back)/JQK and hope it truly does root out all those that covered up (kj, jvds, pdvs, king, witt, rudy, pm, dompig, richardson, mos, pimps and enabling parents....just to name a few...)...Holland-where r u?
I hate them all.....

I with you Billb  ::MonkeyCool::
::MonkeyCool::thanks Klaasend. ::MonkeyCool::
Monkeys WILL OUT THE barsters!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Frank on December 05, 2008, 01:20:35 AM
Janssen will be next.

I wonder why an attorney for the security guards wouldn't jump on this and sue for compensation? If Paulus got something, they must be entitled. Unless their black though?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: AZLady on December 05, 2008, 01:20:40 AM
I agree.  Joran is a marked man, in more ways than one.  He needs to watch his back.  However, this has become bigger than Joran and the 2K's.  When he named the two police men who were paid by his father to cover for him, he moved this into a whole other realm.  That was really the important piece of information he spouted in that interview.  The names of the corrupt cops and his father's complicity have made this case bigger than just Joran's actions. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: SS on December 05, 2008, 01:21:56 AM
I posted this late the other night and I want to bring it forward, as I believe both Kermits and CAPS versions can be put together in a way that both may have pieces of truth in the disappearance of Natalee....for what it is worth. MOO
Please understand...I'm not taking sides, and I really feel uncomfortable when I see long time valued Monkeys seemly in disagreement with each other and calling one another out. What I also take away from this post is that, bottom line, Persistence's mission (searching for Natalee) was a success, and FBI is abreast of the situation. I did say that I agreed with the global picture Kermit was promoting, but that does not mean the I unconditionally discard the picture CAPS has pushed forward. In my opinion, pieces of both can mesh together...CAPS vision of the crime, remains found in the cage, possible remains recovered by ALE in Dec/Jan and/or other remains ending up in CAPS cemetery theory.   I do believe remains were moved multiple times. Thanks again. V/r, billb
I'll just keep posting late at night....no one argues with my theories and I feel good knowing that everyone accepts my brilliance! LOL ::MonkeyHaHa::
I am excited by the apparent meltdown being exhibited by rudy, mos...pressure turned up by Greta(got to admit-I really couldn't forgive or watch her after she was inclined - but she is wining me back)/JQK and hope it truly does root out all those that covered up (kj, jvds, pdvs, king, witt, rudy, pm, dompig, richardson, mos, pimps and enabling parents....just to name a few...)...Holland-where r u?
I hate them all.....

I with you Billb  ::MonkeyCool::
::MonkeyCool::thanks Klaasend. ::MonkeyCool::
Monkeys WILL OUT THE barsters!!




billb - are you sure you aren't robots?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on December 05, 2008, 01:22:18 AM
One of the burning questions in my mind is this:

OK, we have people who know what happened pointing fingers at each other.

No question there has been SLOW and TEDIOUS progress and none of it from any law enforcement official in this entire case. Progress has come from DeVries and Joran's motor mouth. BUT, I can't discount that at this juncture, the world has heard Joran admit he has involvement in Natalee's demise. That's a far cry from where this case once was.

So, what now? Will anything come of it?

That's my burning question.


It does look like Joran was exiled from Aruba, his family and friends, and his patience ran out.  We knew he would explode one day.  I think Joran feels he's thrown down the gauntlet but he's really opened the can of worms and shaken them out.  Justice is so close.


He HAS thrown down the gauntlet...but in those circles...that usually means a mysterious death or disappearance. Joran has been allowed to be so narcissitic, he may think HE will always be protected. What will happen if he has finally pushed them too far this time? He has named too many and he does know the rest of the story we seek. There is no way they will allow him to go any further. Just wondering what's next...

Hi Agraria! I wonder that as well. I don't want anything to happen to Joran. His mouth has been invaluable to keeping things stirred up, and if you stir enough something's bound to float to the top!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: AZLady on December 05, 2008, 01:23:02 AM
Janssen will be next.

I wonder why an attorney for the security guards wouldn't jump on this and sue for compensation? If Paulus got something, they must be entitled. Unless their black though?

Because the security guards did get compensation.  Agreeing to not bring a suit was most likely a part of the package.  I'm sure they were convinced that the package offered for their silence was more than they could ever get in a legal suit.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: AZLady on December 05, 2008, 01:26:24 AM
Joran has a liar's reputation but when he starts saying things that can be corroborated, that's when they will shut him up.  How ironic that they thought they were safe with him on the other side of the world.  I'm grateful that Greta hopped a plane to Thailand.  I'm not so sure anyone else would have done that.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on December 05, 2008, 01:31:36 AM
Greta just said it best.

Nobody or entity who can or could have, is or has done anything, and even now, nobody remembers what this is all about: Natalee.

Admissions of a cover up, and where are the authorities?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on December 05, 2008, 01:34:55 AM
Mr. Hey-el-man (phontetic spelling) is the witness according to Jossy.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: IBE on December 05, 2008, 01:35:14 AM
Jossey said Mr. Hiermann, or Heirmann, Herman


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: IBE on December 05, 2008, 01:36:43 AM
Not pronounced like Herman like we would pronounce.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Magnolia on December 05, 2008, 01:36:50 AM
Greta just said it best.

Nobody or entity who can or could have, is or has done anything, and even now, nobody remembers what this is all about: Natalee.

Admissions of a cover up, and where are the authorities?

One would think that the Minister of Justice coming out
and saying that Van der Straaten and Paulus were guilty
of a cover-up would call for an immediate arrest of those
two at least.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on December 05, 2008, 01:37:12 AM
Joran has a liar's reputation but when he starts saying things that can be corroborated, that's when they will shut him up.  How ironic that they thought they were safe with him on the other side of the world.  I'm grateful that Greta hopped a plane to Thailand.  I'm not so sure anyone else would have done that.

Yeah, I don't think so either. I'm grateful to her.

According to the last segment, apparently it takes a first generation tape to be a voice exemplar.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: IBE on December 05, 2008, 01:37:52 AM
CBB.. you ears are better ::MonkeyWink::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on December 05, 2008, 01:38:42 AM
If it takes a first generation tape, then wouldn't the interrogations while he was in jail work?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on December 05, 2008, 01:40:20 AM
CBB.. you ears are better ::MonkeyWink::

Don't count on it!  ::MonkeyHaHa:: It's just the best I can do. Other interpretations may be closer! With Jossy's dialect, it's hard to tell!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: cajun miracle on December 05, 2008, 01:42:02 AM
Not sure if this has been posted...

Greta says she will have the latest coming up at 10:00 PM.

Thanx VMS.I'm on the westcoast so will watch at my 10pm.

I'm on the west coast too and it's on in 8 minutes for me  ::MonkeyHaHa::

Yes i know Klass!;)As i have to close the store tonight for my employee so i may have my birthday night off tomorrow.Yippeeee. ::MonkeyDance::

Happy Birthday Keepthefaith!!!!!!!!   ::MonkeyDance::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: AZLady on December 05, 2008, 01:43:30 AM
Greta just said it best.

Nobody or entity who can or could have, is or has done anything, and even now, nobody remembers what this is all about: Natalee.

Admissions of a cover up, and where are the authorities?

One would think that the Minister of Justice coming out
and saying that Van der Straaten and Paulus were guilty
of a cover-up would call for an immediate arrest of those
two at least.
Yes, one would think that obstruction of justice and corruption charges would rain down upon their heads.  But, instead, Mos leaves angry voice mails, and the Dutch are wondering what in the world is going on over on that island.  Has anyone asked Rudy Croes to show his evidence that VDS and Van der Stratten were in collusion?  Has Rudy Croes, the Minister of Justice, ordered his police to arrest or file charges?  Nope.  It seems that Aruba is treating these statements as political posturing and name-calling.  Maybe tomorrow we'll see logical action as the result of Croes' very serious accusations.  or maybe not...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: IBE on December 05, 2008, 01:43:52 AM
Don't understand that; they have him on her interview in his house. Wouldn't that be "first generation'?

Put there are sound people who can take out all the noise and hear the match ups.

I think she knows if it is good and is holding out for Mr. Mos to react. Why should he react.. in a few days or weeks he will be going back to Holland and another from Holland will go to Aruba to take his place.

I volunteer one of our Monkeys who are Dutch or can pretend they... Heck with the lack of response we have had in 3 1/2 yrs. we could have sent just a monkey and had more reactions from him.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: billb's daughter on December 05, 2008, 01:44:42 AM
I posted this late the other night and I want to bring it forward, as I believe both Kermits and CAPS versions can be put together in a way that both may have pieces of truth in the disappearance of Natalee....for what it is worth. MOO
Please understand...I'm not taking sides, and I really feel uncomfortable when I see long time valued Monkeys seemly in disagreement with each other and calling one another out. What I also take away from this post is that, bottom line, Persistence's mission (searching for Natalee) was a success, and FBI is abreast of the situation. I did say that I agreed with the global picture Kermit was promoting, but that does not mean the I unconditionally discard the picture CAPS has pushed forward. In my opinion, pieces of both can mesh together...CAPS vision of the crime, remains found in the cage, possible remains recovered by ALE in Dec/Jan and/or other remains ending up in CAPS cemetery theory.   I do believe remains were moved multiple times. Thanks again. V/r, billb
I'll just keep posting late at night....no one argues with my theories and I feel good knowing that everyone accepts my brilliance! LOL ::MonkeyHaHa::
I am excited by the apparent meltdown being exhibited by rudy, mos...pressure turned up by Greta(got to admit-I really couldn't forgive or watch her after she was inclined - but she is wining me back)/JQK and hope it truly does root out all those that covered up (kj, jvds, pdvs, king, witt, rudy, pm, dompig, richardson, mos, pimps and enabling parents....just to name a few...)...Holland-where r u?
I hate them all.....

I with you Billb  ::MonkeyCool::
::MonkeyCool::thanks Klaasend. ::MonkeyCool::
Monkeys WILL OUT THE barsters!!




billb - are you sure you aren't robots?
SS,
I'm pretty (no way-stop looking at yourself in the mirror) sure I'm not ROBOTS.
ROBOTS is a legend at SM..no one could replace him. I can't tell you how many times ROBOTS found the bright side even in the darkest moments and kept the Monkeys faith in believing there would be JUSTICE FOR NATALEE. I don't know ROBOTS, and last time I heard, he was 99 years old! I do hope he still lurks here, as I'm SURE he is proud of the dedication/determination that the MONKEYS have maintained in finding the truth in Natalee's disappearance. I will admit: I hate them all (cover-up, disinformation crew, and VDSloot supporters - sounds like a jock strap) and AMERICAN TRAITORS-I HATE THEM ALL!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on December 05, 2008, 01:45:29 AM
 ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyDance:: For Keepthe faith:

      (http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c100/crazybabyborgs/express/Birthday_balloon.gif)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Frank on December 05, 2008, 01:46:39 AM
Greta just said it best.

Nobody or entity who can or could have, is or has done anything, and even now, nobody remembers what this is all about: Natalee.

Admissions of a cover up, and where are the authorities?

One would think that the Minister of Justice coming out
and saying that Van der Straaten and Paulus were guilty
of a cover-up would call for an immediate arrest of those
two at least.

You would think, but they tell us Natalee is dead, but call her a "disapperence" and don't tell us how they know? Yes, she is dead, but we don't have proof? Huh?

That is a cover up. Janssen and van der straaten have both declared Natalee dead.
And nobody is in jail, nobody.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: AZLady on December 05, 2008, 01:46:51 AM
IBE and CBB, I agree.  Greta has lots of first generation tape of Paulus.  She did an interview with him and Anita three years ago in his very kitchen.  We watched it.  We heard Paulus talk.  She knows if the tape is legit or not.  Greta is pushing Mos to move.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: IBE on December 05, 2008, 01:48:49 AM
Oh, I thought they were talking about not having Paulus on a first generation tape... so it's Joran.... gee they have tape on both of them.

And if the van der Sloot home was being secretly taped by the DEA, FBI or Interpol before Natalee disappeared... then those enities have first generation.

Still think she is using this term as a ploy to show her viewers that Mos isn't interested.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on December 05, 2008, 01:50:35 AM
Don't understand that; they have him on her interview in his house. Wouldn't that be "first generation'?

Put there are sound people who can take out all the noise and hear the match ups.

I think she knows if it is good and is holding out for Mr. Mos to react. Why should he react.. in a few days or weeks he will be going back to Holland and another from Holland will go to Aruba to take his place.

I volunteer one of our Monkeys who are Dutch or can pretend they... Heck with the lack of response we have had in 3 1/2 yrs. we could have sent just a monkey and had more reactions from him.

I don't get it either. Maybe it has to do with authenticating it's Paulus in an unedited tape? That doesn't really make sense to me either though.
Maybe an acceptable exemplar would have to be in the same language?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Magnolia on December 05, 2008, 01:50:56 AM
One thing that I find interesting is posters coming in shifts to
discredit Kermit.  It is an organized thing.
Kermit post alone and always backs up his/her post.
The others post nonsense to attempt to confuse and discredit.
There is never anything substantial.
I have tried to stay quiet today and observe and that is what I
have noticed.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Keepthefaith on December 05, 2008, 01:51:32 AM
Not sure if this has been posted...

Greta says she will have the latest coming up at 10:00 PM.

Thanx VMS.I'm on the westcoast so will watch at my 10pm.

Thank You Cajun!Hope the good vines continue into the Holidays regarding the rats starting to eat themselves alive down there in LieRuba..SweatyMan is,is,is Sweating profusely.His Sweating will be very welcome while sleeping next to his good buddy Jan in there Prison Cell.I Keepthefaith that the Glass filleth over with water very soon... ::cartwheel::

I'm on the west coast too and it's on in 8 minutes for me  ::MonkeyHaHa::

Yes i know Klass!;)As i have to close the store tonight for my employee so i may have my birthday night off tomorrow.Yippeeee. ::MonkeyDance::

Happy Birthday Keepthefaith!!!!!!!!   ::MonkeyDance::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Keepthefaith on December 05, 2008, 01:53:05 AM
Not sure if this has been posted...

Greta says she will have the latest coming up at 10:00 PM.

Thanx VMS.I'm on the westcoast so will watch at my 10pm.

Thank You Cajun!Hope the good vines continue into the Holidays regarding the rats starting to eat themselves alive down there in LieRuba..SweatyMan is,is,is Sweating profusely.His Sweating will be very welcome while sleeping next to his good buddy Jan in there Prison Cell.I Keepthefaith that the Glass filleth over with water very soon... ::cartwheel::

I'm on the west coast too and it's on in 8 minutes for me  ::MonkeyHaHa::

Yes i know Klass!;)As i have to close the store tonight for my employee so i may have my birthday night off tomorrow.Yippeeee. ::MonkeyDance::

Happy Birthday Keepthefaith!!!!!!!!   ::MonkeyDance::


Sorry.My Brain is fryed(old).Messed that up seriously..

Thank You Cajun!Hope the good vines continue into the Holidays regarding the rats starting to eat themselves alive down there in LieRuba..SweatyMan is,is,is Sweating profusely.His Sweating will be very welcome while sleeping next to his good buddy Jan in there Prison Cell.I Keepthefaith that the Glass filleth over with water very soon... ::cartwheel::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: AZLady on December 05, 2008, 01:53:16 AM
Greta just said it best.

Nobody or entity who can or could have, is or has done anything, and even now, nobody remembers what this is all about: Natalee.

Admissions of a cover up, and where are the authorities?

One would think that the Minister of Justice coming out
and saying that Van der Straaten and Paulus were guilty
of a cover-up would call for an immediate arrest of those
two at least.

You would think, but they tell us Natalee is dead, but call her a "disapperence" and don't tell us how they know? Yes, she is dead, but we don't have proof? Huh?

That is a cover up. Janssen and van der straaten have both declared Natalee dead.
And nobody is in jail, nobody.

Yes, one would think that the Minister of Justice coming out and saying that Van der Straaten and Paulus were guilty of a cover-up would call for an immediate arrest of those
two at least.  After all, they arrest in Aruba on mere suspicion and then sort it out when everyone is in jail.  So, why haven't they arrested these two, and more? 

Rudy Croes made these statements about Van der Straaten as a political response to Van der Straaten calling Aruban cops crooked.  I get the impression that Aruba sees these comments as political name-calling and posturing.  Where do these people draw the line?  I next expect Croes to backstep and say he didn't really mean it but was just trying to counter Van der Straaten's slander of his Aruban police.  This wouldn't surprise me a bit. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: IBE on December 05, 2008, 01:54:12 AM
Just saw you post... thanks... am in bunkey fog so am going quietly

But, darn, I am frustrated and angry with Holland and Aruba, plus. Have a friend in 911 galbladder surgery and can't find anything about her.

Wish we could hire a ship and all go down they and get off the ship dressed like monkeys and then they'd say "see all those monkeys' and we'd just tell the meanies in Aruba we are coming to visit our relative... those who are human or humane.

Oh heck. Cry Cry


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Keepthefaith on December 05, 2008, 01:56:48 AM
::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyDance:: For Keepthe faith:

      (http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c100/crazybabyborgs/express/Birthday_balloon.gif)

Thank You CBB.As some know i'm from Seattle and love my Washington Huskies.I believe ourr New coach will be Steve Sarkisian outta The University of Southern(Offensive Coordinator) California.. ::MonkeyDance::Hopefully the Good news continues to roll..When it rains it pours...Keepthefaith..


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on December 05, 2008, 01:59:14 AM
One thing that I find interesting is posters coming in shifts to
discredit Kermit.  It is an organized thing.
Kermit post alone and always backs up his/her post.
The others post nonsense to attempt to confuse and discredit.
There is never anything substantial.
I have tried to stay quiet today and observe and that is what I
have noticed.

I only speak for me, but whether Kermit has been right or wrong about a theory or conclusion drawn from trying to fit pieces of the puzzle together, then it's no big deal to me. Kermit's been here a long time and I respect her/him.
I haven't seen anything that would cause me to change my mind about that.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: AZLady on December 05, 2008, 01:59:34 AM
One thing that I find interesting is posters coming in shifts to
discredit Kermit.  It is an organized thing.
Kermit post alone and always backs up his/her post.
The others post nonsense to attempt to confuse and discredit.
There is never anything substantial.
I have tried to stay quiet today and observe and that is what I
have noticed.
I've noticed this, too, Magnolia.  I've read back today for a few hours.  Kermit always uses quotes to back up his/her logic--the same quotes I read and wondered about last winter.  Those who try to confuse and discredit seems to think that long, emotional rants are persuasive.  Monkeys are critical and read carefully.  They also recognize contradiction.  OE's own words admit that he cannot say all he knows.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: SS on December 05, 2008, 02:02:52 AM
I am going to throw out a hypothetical situation.  This past Summer, we were in Shango working on a theory Caps has about Natalee being buried in an Aruban cemetery - possibly the Masonic Cemetery.  Carpe came up with Jalitza Wever who had died and was buried the same week that Natalee disappeared.  Caps also believes that Urine lost a sneaker in the Manserat Pond while washing himself off that fateful night, and he says that ALE found a sneaker when the pond was drained the past Spring.  In the photographs of the fish cage, there is what looks like a single sneaker.  It's white with blue stripes and matches a photograph of Urine wearing a similar sneaker and as well as one of his many descriptions of the sneaker that he reportedly lost on "the beach".  The pond witness reported that Urine was walking without one shoe.   Beth reported that a bloody shoe belonging to Urine had been found at the Sloot home.  Now, what if ... Natalee was placed in Jalitza's crypt and Jaltiza was placed in the fish cage with Natalee's clothes, including her denim skirt, and the remaining shoe that Urine was still wearing when the witness saw him walking. 

Somewhere there is a better photograph of the shoe in the trap which shows blue stripes.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: crazybabyborg on December 05, 2008, 02:02:54 AM
AZ wrote:

I next expect Croes to backstep and say he didn't really mean it but was just trying to counter Van der Straaten's slander of his Aruban police.  This wouldn't surprise me a bit.

 ::MonkeyNoNo:: No, me either. It's a sad state when we'd be more surprised to see Aruba or Holland actually act on the evidence and corruption rather than be part of it.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Keepthefaith on December 05, 2008, 02:03:51 AM
One thing that I find interesting is posters coming in shifts to
discredit Kermit.  It is an organized thing.
Kermit post alone and always backs up his/her post.
The others post nonsense to attempt to confuse and discredit.
There is never anything substantial.
I have tried to stay quiet today and observe and that is what I
have noticed.

No need to stay quiet Magnolia.As long as you stand on the foundations of truth your house will never fall.JMOO.It seems interesting to me as well.We Monkey's are inquisitve creature's by nature!If one has an issue with another's ideas,thought's,motive's take issue with it and ask the pertinent questions in an open forum.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: AZLady on December 05, 2008, 02:04:31 AM
I have enormous respect for Tamikosmom as well as Kermit and other Monkeys who use logic and sources to explain their conclusions.  As we learn more, our conclusions change, but the method of logic and sources doesn't change.  I like that our commentary in the cage is saved and archived, so we can go back and retrieve them.  When considered next to the events of the day, the comments of significant people are more revealing in retrospect.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Magnolia on December 05, 2008, 02:07:16 AM
One thing that I find interesting is posters coming in shifts to
discredit Kermit.  It is an organized thing.
Kermit post alone and always backs up his/her post.
The others post nonsense to attempt to confuse and discredit.
There is never anything substantial.
I have tried to stay quiet today and observe and that is what I
have noticed.
I've noticed this, too, Magnolia.  I've read back today for a few hours.  Kermit always uses quotes to back up his/her logic--the same quotes I read and wondered about last winter.  Those who try to confuse and discredit seems to think that long, emotional rants are persuasive.  Monkeys are critical and read carefully.  They also recognize contradiction.  OE's own words admit that he cannot say all he knows.

I have never known Kermit to post anything that was not true.
Can't say that about some of the others.  That says a lot to me.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: AZLady on December 05, 2008, 02:07:27 AM
AZ wrote:

I next expect Croes to backstep and say he didn't really mean it but was just trying to counter Van der Straaten's slander of his Aruban police.  This wouldn't surprise me a bit.

 ::MonkeyNoNo:: No, me either. It's a sad state when we'd be more surprised to see Aruba or Holland actually act on the evidence and corruption rather than be part of it.

Yes, it is sad.  What will be the tipping point when Aruba is just too corrupt to be allowed to continue?  Will they have to impinge on some other country's business?  You would think their treatment of an American tourist would be their downfall, but apparently it will take more.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: AZLady on December 05, 2008, 02:09:04 AM
Yes.  The frog is well-respected on the discussion boards, here and on others.  I agree.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: billb's daughter on December 05, 2008, 02:10:04 AM
Greta just said it best.

Nobody or entity who can or could have, is or has done anything, and even now, nobody remembers what this is all about: Natalee.

Admissions of a cover up, and where are the authorities?

One would think that the Minister of Justice coming out
and saying that Van der Straaten and Paulus were guilty
of a cover-up would call for an immediate arrest of those
two at least.

You would think, but they tell us Natalee is dead, but call her a "disapperence" and don't tell us how they know? Yes, she is dead, but we don't have proof? Huh?

That is a cover up. Janssen and van der straaten have both declared Natalee dead.
And nobody is in jail, nobody.

Yes, one would think that the Minister of Justice coming out and saying that Van der Straaten and Paulus were guilty of a cover-up would call for an immediate arrest of those
two at least.  After all, they arrest in Aruba on mere suspicion and then sort it out when everyone is in jail.  So, why haven't they arrested these two, and more? 

Rudy Croes made these statements about Van der Straaten as a political response to Van der Straaten calling Aruban cops crooked.  I get the impression that Aruba sees these comments as political name-calling and posturing.  Where do these people draw the line?  I next expect Croes to backstep and say he didn't really mean it but was just trying to counter Van der Straaten's slander of his Aruban police.  This wouldn't surprise me a bit. 

Whether or not Aruba sees these comments as political name-calling and posturing....Greta and JQK are directing comments directly to Holland...Is there someone in Holland justice branch that will get off their a$$ and investigate? Hero B...where r u!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: SS on December 05, 2008, 02:10:54 AM
Jaltiza Wever was born 3/21/62 and died 6/2/05.  Her funeral was June 6th, 2005.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: SS on December 05, 2008, 02:11:49 AM
Happy Birthday, Keep the Faith!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: AZLady on December 05, 2008, 02:12:12 AM
billb, I've been wondering the same.  Even after de Vries' shows in Holland and the public outrage, little was done.  What will it take to involve Interpol? 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Agraria on December 05, 2008, 02:13:10 AM
Janssen will be next.

I wonder why an attorney for the security guards wouldn't jump on this and sue for compensation? If Paulus got something, they must be entitled. Unless their black though?

Have you read of the absolute atrocities that have occurred on this tiny island since sweet Natalee disappeared? This is a VERY VERY dangerous place with whatever groups operate there. I am sure that everyone there knows where the line is in the sand. And to step over it... means danger.

Let's see.. NH disappeared. Horrible deaths, beheadings (some called suicides???) one a torture, (hands nailed to a piece of wood and dismemberment and then burned alive near some cave). Many many many...too strange to be a normal homicide rate.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: AZLady on December 05, 2008, 02:18:17 AM
It is a dangerous place.  The type of dangerous place that most of us cannot imagine.  The danger that lurks is fed by poverty on one hand and enormous amounts of money on the other hand.  This is the kind of money that is not earned by an honest day's work.  Those who do not have money are expendable and their lives worth little.  Those who do have the money are ruthless when it comes to keeping it.  This society has been in place for decades, and I wonder how it could be changed without destroying the island.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Keepthefaith on December 05, 2008, 02:18:55 AM
Happy Birthday, Keep the Faith!

Thanx SS.Interesting things coming out.I really hope the saying "When it Rains it pours" will apply starting today..


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: AZLady on December 05, 2008, 02:19:38 AM
Perhaps destruction is the solution.  Light the fires.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: SS on December 05, 2008, 02:21:12 AM
I am going to throw out a hypothetical situation.  This past Summer, we were in Shango working on a theory Caps has about Natalee being buried in an Aruban cemetery - possibly the Masonic Cemetery.  Carpe came up with Jalitza Wever who had died and was buried the same week that Natalee disappeared.  Caps also believes that Urine lost a sneaker in the Manserat Pond while washing himself off that fateful night, and he says that ALE found a sneaker when the pond was drained the past Spring.  In the photographs of the fish cage, there is what looks like a single sneaker.  It's white with blue stripes and matches a photograph of Urine wearing a similar sneaker and as well as one of his many descriptions of the sneaker that he reportedly lost on "the beach".  The pond witness reported that Urine was walking without one shoe.   Beth reported that a bloody shoe belonging to Urine had been found at the Sloot home.  Now, what if ... Natalee was placed in Jalitza's crypt and Jaltiza was placed in the fish cage with Natalee's clothes, including her denim skirt, and the remaining shoe that Urine was still wearing when the witness saw him walking. 

Somewhere there is a better photograph of the shoe in the trap which shows blue stripes.




Jalitza was born 3/21/62 and died 6/2/05. Her funeral was June 6th.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: SS on December 05, 2008, 02:23:24 AM
Jalitza Wever found by Carpe...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Keepthefaith on December 05, 2008, 02:24:52 AM
I am going to throw out a hypothetical situation.  This past Summer, we were in Shango working on a theory Caps has about Natalee being buried in an Aruban cemetery - possibly the Masonic Cemetery.  Carpe came up with Jalitza Wever who had died and was buried the same week that Natalee disappeared.  Caps also believes that Urine lost a sneaker in the Manserat Pond while washing himself off that fateful night, and he says that ALE found a sneaker when the pond was drained the past Spring.  In the photographs of the fish cage, there is what looks like a single sneaker.  It's white with blue stripes and matches a photograph of Urine wearing a similar sneaker and as well as one of his many descriptions of the sneaker that he reportedly lost on "the beach".  The pond witness reported that Urine was walking without one shoe.   Beth reported that a bloody shoe belonging to Urine had been found at the Sloot home.  Now, what if ... Natalee was placed in Jalitza's crypt and Jaltiza was placed in the fish cage with Natalee's clothes, including her denim skirt, and the remaining shoe that Urine was still wearing when the witness saw him walking. 

Somewhere there is a better photograph of the shoe in the trap which shows blue stripes.




Jalitza was born 3/21/62 and died 6/2/05. Her funeral was June 6th.

Do we know the circumstances regarding Jalitzas death??


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: AZLady on December 05, 2008, 02:26:43 AM
SS, wouldn't that be a lot of trouble for a girl's body that was of no interest to anyone, other than her family?  And, that would presuppose that the crab cage would be found over three years later--not a likely outcome for which to take such preparation.  The concept of burying a body that someone doesn't want found with another body (in the same casket) is fairly well known.  It's been described in stories for a long time. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: SS on December 05, 2008, 02:27:52 AM
No, we couldn't find much about her except that she was married.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Keepthefaith on December 05, 2008, 02:29:14 AM
SS, wouldn't that be a lot of trouble for a girl's body that was of no interest to anyone, other than her family?  And, that would presuppose that the crab cage would be found over three years later--not a likely outcome for which to take such preparation.  The concept of burying a body that someone doesn't want found with another body (in the same casket) is fairly well known.  It's been described in stories for a long time. 

An interesting concept.Has Caps followed up on this??Will check back in in the morning!Keep the Faith... ::MonkeyWink::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Keepthefaith on December 05, 2008, 02:32:31 AM
No, we couldn't find much about her except that she was married.

They really have a great way of making sure information is very scarce on Aruba..If you don't exist nobody will miss you..Less information the better!I agree with a previous poster.The internet has really been a key to keeping this train movin down the track!Off till the morning...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: SS on December 05, 2008, 02:34:36 AM
SS, wouldn't that be a lot of trouble for a girl's body that was of no interest to anyone, other than her family?  And, that would presuppose that the crab cage would be found over three years later--not a likely outcome for which to take such preparation.  The concept of burying a body that someone doesn't want found with another body (in the same casket) is fairly well known.  It's been described in stories for a long time. 




We were going on the theory that Natalee had been moved several times, and we don't know the date the whoever was in the fish trap was put there.  If there was a closed casket at Jalitza it would be an easy way to hide Natalee.  It wouldn't have been possible for there to have been an open casket, because Natalee had been dead for several days.  Perhaps Jalitza's death was such that there wouldn't have been an open casket.  Many of the dirty hands are members of the Masonic Lodge and they would have been able to arrange this.  By the time that Jalitza died, the H/Ts were actively searching for Natalee and the pressure was on by Beth.  As Shango said ... hidden in plain sight.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: billb's daughter on December 05, 2008, 02:37:12 AM
Janssen will be next.

I wonder why an attorney for the security guards wouldn't jump on this and sue for compensation? If Paulus got something, they must be entitled. Unless their black though?

Have you read of the absolute atrocities that have occurred on this tiny island since sweet Natalee disappeared? This is a VERY VERY dangerous place with whatever groups operate there. I am sure that everyone there knows where the line is in the sand. And to step over it... means danger.

Let's see.. NH disappeared. Horrible deaths, beheadings (some called suicides???) one a torture, (hands nailed to a piece of wood and dismemberment and then burned alive near some cave). Many many many...too strange to be a normal homicide rate.


There are many atrocities that have happened on aruba, as well as many other Caribbean islands. While this is true, the fate of Natalee should not be blended into those atrocities, as they are not related in any way.  Natalee was an American teenager celebrating her high school graduation, along with 100 plus classmates, on an island that promotes itself to Americans (their cash cow) as a fun loving and safe environment.  When and if the details surrounding Natalee's disappearance emerge, Aruba and their governing country of Holland will be exposed to the graphic realities of a third world view that women, in particular, are only required to serve at the whim of the male population. In their view, if a problem arises, women are considered disposable. That is what happened to Natalee, and the cover up by aruba and Holland confirms that there is no justice for women/children in their world.
But Aruba/Holland underestimated the will of Natalee's family and the will of Monkeys to expose the cover up. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: AZLady on December 05, 2008, 02:45:15 AM
SS, wouldn't that be a lot of trouble for a girl's body that was of no interest to anyone, other than her family?  And, that would presuppose that the crab cage would be found over three years later--not a likely outcome for which to take such preparation.  The concept of burying a body that someone doesn't want found with another body (in the same casket) is fairly well known.  It's been described in stories for a long time. 




We were going on the theory that Natalee had been moved several times, and we don't know the date the whoever was in the fish trap was put there.  If there was a closed casket at Jalitza it would be an easy way to hide Natalee.  It wouldn't have been possible for there to have been an open casket, because Natalee had been dead for several days.  Perhaps Jalitza's death was such that there wouldn't have been an open casket.  Many of the dirty hands are members of the Masonic Lodge and they would have been able to arrange this.  By the time that Jalitza died, the H/Ts were actively searching for Natalee and the pressure was on by Beth.  As Shango said ... hidden in plain sight.

I thought that the theory was that Natalee may have been buried in the same casket as Jalitza.  Even if there was an open casket funeral, Natalee's body may have been placed in the casket after the funeral but before burial.  I've even heard some theorize that caskets might be made with false compartments that could hold another body, but that seems a bit far-fetched to me.  This theory would be difficult to prove as there has to be good reason to exhume a body and permission must be had from the family, if there is not a court order.   Generally, it's not done, so this is considered a likely place to dispose of an unwanted body. 

Personally, and no offense, but I think this theory is a distraction.  There's no evidence or even insinuations of this happening.  It also is an idea that has been featured in crime stories and other literature for many, many years.  This may be where it came from...who knows?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: billb's daughter on December 05, 2008, 02:51:43 AM
I like KISS...
CAPS theory is based on Natalee's kidnapping and demise. Kermit's theory is on recovery of Natalee. CAPS and Kermit's theories may complement each others...they should not be considered all or nothing...
Greta/JQK firmly put the ball in MOS's/Holland's court! What say you hero B?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: caesu on December 05, 2008, 02:53:15 AM
Greta just said it best.

Nobody or entity who can or could have, is or has done anything, and even now, nobody remembers what this is all about: Natalee.

Admissions of a cover up, and where are the authorities?

One would think that the Minister of Justice coming out
and saying that Van der Straaten and Paulus were guilty
of a cover-up would call for an immediate arrest of those
two at least.

You would think, but they tell us Natalee is dead, but call her a "disapperence" and don't tell us how they know? Yes, she is dead, but we don't have proof? Huh?

That is a cover up. Janssen and van der straaten have both declared Natalee dead.
And nobody is in jail, nobody.

Yes, one would think that the Minister of Justice coming out and saying that Van der Straaten and Paulus were guilty of a cover-up would call for an immediate arrest of those
two at least.  After all, they arrest in Aruba on mere suspicion and then sort it out when everyone is in jail.  So, why haven't they arrested these two, and more? 

Rudy Croes made these statements about Van der Straaten as a political response to Van der Straaten calling Aruban cops crooked.  I get the impression that Aruba sees these comments as political name-calling and posturing.  Where do these people draw the line?  I next expect Croes to backstep and say he didn't really mean it but was just trying to counter Van der Straaten's slander of his Aruban police.  This wouldn't surprise me a bit. 

Whether or not Aruba sees these comments as political name-calling and posturing....Greta and JQK are directing comments directly to Holland...Is there someone in Holland justice branch that will get off their a$$ and investigate? Hero B...where r u!

Hero Brinkman is doing all he can. but his party is only small in parlaiment.
so he can't force anything through if he doesn't get a majority.

today he was on a Dutch talkshow:
http://dewerelddraaitdoor.vara.nl/gezienindwdd.php?id=561
Quote
The Dutch police force commissioner Jan van der Straten has seriously obstructed the investigation into the disappearance of Natalee Holloway at the beginning stage. He did this to help the father of Joran with protecting his son, so explained the minister of justice of Aruba. According to PVV-er Hero Brinkman this shows again to how corrupt the Antilles are. He will ask for a parliamentary enquiry.

interesting coincidence is that Jan van der Straten wanted Hero Brinkman arrested for calling the island corrupt.

e-mail him, try to get him on American news shows.
just him being on American TV will generate more media attention in Aruba and The Netherlands too.
http://www.pvv.nl/index.php?option=com_facileforms&Itemid=114

i emailed Greta.

there is a window of opportunity this month to create a media hype.
there are a few factors that can fire the flames up and maybe get thing on collision course like a posted i few pages back.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4186.msg567171#msg567171


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: AZLady on December 05, 2008, 02:55:01 AM
Yes, billb.  And, everyone's theories have value as they give us food for thought.  I personally subscribe to the KISS theory, placing Joran and the 2K's squarely responsible with PVDS and others assisting in body disposal and coverup.  However, all the theories have helped us become better critical thinkers and gather information. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: AZLady on December 05, 2008, 02:57:09 AM
Caesu, would Hero Brinkman call for Interpol or another international force to investigate the corruption on Aruba? 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: billb's daughter on December 05, 2008, 03:00:44 AM
Greta just said it best.

Nobody or entity who can or could have, is or has done anything, and even now, nobody remembers what this is all about: Natalee.

Admissions of a cover up, and where are the authorities?

One would think that the Minister of Justice coming out
and saying that Van der Straaten and Paulus were guilty
of a cover-up would call for an immediate arrest of those
two at least.

You would think, but they tell us Natalee is dead, but call her a "disapperence" and don't tell us how they know? Yes, she is dead, but we don't have proof? Huh?

That is a cover up. Janssen and van der straaten have both declared Natalee dead.
And nobody is in jail, nobody.

Yes, one would think that the Minister of Justice coming out and saying that Van der Straaten and Paulus were guilty of a cover-up would call for an immediate arrest of those
two at least.  After all, they arrest in Aruba on mere suspicion and then sort it out when everyone is in jail.  So, why haven't they arrested these two, and more? 

Rudy Croes made these statements about Van der Straaten as a political response to Van der Straaten calling Aruban cops crooked.  I get the impression that Aruba sees these comments as political name-calling and posturing.  Where do these people draw the line?  I next expect Croes to backstep and say he didn't really mean it but was just trying to counter Van der Straaten's slander of his Aruban police.  This wouldn't surprise me a bit. 

Whether or not Aruba sees these comments as political name-calling and posturing....Greta and JQK are directing comments directly to Holland...Is there someone in Holland justice branch that will get off their a$$ and investigate? Hero B...where r u!

Hero Brinkman is doing all he can. but his party is only small in parlaiment.
so he can't force anything through if he doesn't get a majority.

today he was on a Dutch talkshow:
http://dewerelddraaitdoor.vara.nl/gezienindwdd.php?id=561
Quote
The Dutch police force commissioner Jan van der Straten has seriously obstructed the investigation into the disappearance of Natalee Holloway at the beginning stage. He did this to help the father of Joran with protecting his son, so explained the minister of justice of Aruba. According to PVV-er Hero Brinkman this shows again to how corrupt the Antilles are. He will ask for a parliamentary enquiry.

interesting coincidence is that Jan van der Straten wanted Hero Brinkman arrested for calling the island corrupt.

e-mail him, try to get him on American news shows.
just him being on American TV will generate more media attention in Aruba and The Netherlands too.
http://www.pvv.nl/index.php?option=com_facileforms&Itemid=114

i emailed Greta.

there is a window of opportunity this month to create a media hype.
there are a few factors that can fire the flames up and maybe get thing on collision course like a posted i few pages back.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4186.msg567171#msg567171
Thanks Caesu.....Game plan for all those seeking Justice For Natalee...hold those empowered to investigate accountable by emailing/letter writing/phone call/messages by carrier pigeons....name calling/curses/rituals/wishing bad karma..... ok, I should have stopped at phone calls.. :)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: AZLady on December 05, 2008, 03:05:47 AM
I just emailed Hero Brinkman, as caesu suggested.  I asked him to call for a parliamentary inquiry and to consider involving Interpol in investigating this corruption.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: AZLady on December 05, 2008, 03:06:33 AM
I wrote the email in English.  I hope he is either bilingual or has translators!   ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: billb's daughter on December 05, 2008, 03:08:59 AM
Yes, billb.  And, everyone's theories have value as they give us food for thought.  I personally subscribe to the KISS theory, placing Joran and the 2K's squarely responsible with PVDS and others assisting in body disposal and coverup.  However, all the theories have helped us become better critical thinkers and gather information. 
AZLady,
I am not discounting what you say...it may be right....I'm more cynical though, as Minnesota Dad says.. PAULASS is your perp, and his gang of judges...I think urine and the pimps are amply named...they procured Natalee for a late night party for his dad and accomplices at VDS home..anita was away...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: AZLady on December 05, 2008, 03:12:40 AM
Yes, billb.  And, everyone's theories have value as they give us food for thought.  I personally subscribe to the KISS theory, placing Joran and the 2K's squarely responsible with PVDS and others assisting in body disposal and coverup.  However, all the theories have helped us become better critical thinkers and gather information. 
AZLady,
I am not discounting what you say...it may be right....I'm more cynical though, as Minnesota Dad says.. PAULASS is your perp, and his gang of judges...I think urine and the pimps are amply named...they procured Natalee for a late night party for his dad and accomplices at VDS home..anita was away...
billb, I agree.  I've vacillated between the party being all teenagers to it being elders and teens.  I've considered both and really haven't read any evidence that leans me one way or the other.  I do think the crime scene was the VDS home.  Why else obstruct a search?  If the crime scene where anywhere else, PVDS would have allowed a thorough search for vindication.  Natalee was there; Beth told us that when she entered that gate with Greta and I believe her.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: caesu on December 05, 2008, 03:16:54 AM
Caesu, would Hero Brinkman call for Interpol or another international force to investigate the corruption on Aruba? 

i don't think that is going to happen. and i don't think Brinkman is going to ask for that.
because letting a international force investigate is in effect saying that the domestic police force isn't capable enough.
a sovereign country is just not going to do that. they might however ask for assistance from the FBI.
but i don't think Interpol is the organisation for that.

however Brinkman did yesterday ask for the Rijksrecherche to investigate the Aruba Police Force.
the Rijksrecherche has the task of investigating corruption in the police force.

(The National Police Internal Investigations Department or rijksrecherche)

Quote
Deployment of the rijksrecherche

Rijksrecherche investigations primarily focus on investigations against (semi) government officials (civil servants) who are suspected of punishable acts (criminal offences), whereby the integrity of justice and/or that of the public administration (the government) is at issue. On the basis of its independent position towards the various police forces, the rijksrecherche may also conduct investigations into the actions of police officers who in the performance of their duties used violence or were in default, as a result of which injuries occurred. The rijksrecherche therefore contributes to the monitoring and upholding of an incorruptible government. Our rule of law, each party involved, each citizen, but also the government itself, has a right thereto and has an enormous interest in that.
http://www.om.nl/vast_menu_blok/english/the_national_police/
(interesting read if you want to know how they work)

again, the problem is Brinkman's political party is small.
but lately he has gotten more support from other parties.
Quote
The Dutch Minister of Justice Ernst Hirsch Ballin (CDA) has expressed his concern about government corruption during talks with Prime Minister Nelson Oduber (MEP).

This is evident from his answer to Chamber questions which PVV Member of Parliament Hero Brinkman asked the Minister and the Secretary of State Ank Bijleveld-Schouten (CDA) on the 26th of June.
http://www.sxmislandtime.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2258:the-netherlands-worried-about-corruption-aruba&catid=31:general&Itemid=76

and now with Rudy Croes admitting to a cover up.
i believe there is a possibility for the sh*t hitting the fan.
i am only trying to think of ways to push the fan closer to hitting it.  ::MonkeyWink::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: AZLady on December 05, 2008, 03:21:11 AM
The National Police Internal Investigations Department or rijksrecherche would be a good start.  However, wasn't there a special investigation unit sent from Holland to investigate the investigation of this case some time ago?  I remember press about a special group of investigators from Holland who set up an independent office on Aruba specifically to investigate this case. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: caesu on December 05, 2008, 03:30:03 AM
The National Police Internal Investigations Department or rijksrecherche would be a good start.  However, wasn't there a special investigation unit sent from Holland to investigate the investigation of this case some time ago?  I remember press about a special group of investigators from Holland who set up an independent office on Aruba specifically to investigate this case. 

i think that was the KLPD.
http://www.ad.nl/binnenland/article231050.ece?pageNumber=1
Quote
The Dutch police consists of 25 regional police forces and the National Police Services Agency (KLPD).
http://www.politie.nl/English/


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: AZLady on December 05, 2008, 03:33:04 AM
Yes, the KLPD.  Thank you for the reminder.  I suppose if the corrupt Arubans destroyed evidence as they came across it, there would be little for the KLPD to assess.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: billb's daughter on December 05, 2008, 03:36:51 AM
Yes, billb.  And, everyone's theories have value as they give us food for thought.  I personally subscribe to the KISS theory, placing Joran and the 2K's squarely responsible with PVDS and others assisting in body disposal and coverup.  However, all the theories have helped us become better critical thinkers and gather information. 
AZLady,
I am not discounting what you say...it may be right....I'm more cynical though, as Minnesota Dad says.. PAULASS is your perp, and his gang of judges...I think urine and the pimps are amply named...they procured Natalee for a late night party for his dad and accomplices at VDS home..anita was away...
billb, I agree.  I've vacillated between the party being all teenagers to it being elders and teens.  I've considered both and really haven't read any evidence that leans me one way or the other.  I do think the crime scene was the VDS home.  Why else obstruct a search?  If the crime scene where anywhere else, PVDS would have allowed a thorough search for vindication.  Natalee was there; Beth told us that when she entered that gate with Greta and I believe her.
Yep..if it was only the pimps....Aruba could apologize, arrest urine until he was 18 - 21...return Natalee to her family.
The evidence would have shown a much more sinister plot by adults....had to be covered up..no body, no case.....


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: AZLady on December 05, 2008, 03:46:45 AM
Or, the evidence may show a notably violent attack on Natalee that PVDS felt a need to coverup so his son wouldn't spend more time in prison.  But, even in this case, with the help of Aruban judges, they could have claimed Joran was mentally ill, and given him time served with some counseling or treatment.  I wonder sometimes how much of this coverup became a self-perpetuating thing that, once set into motion, couldn't be stopped or altered.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Buckeye on December 05, 2008, 05:50:54 AM
Dr. Phil/K2 update:

 12/04/2008 at 08:30 am in Department 69, Edward A. Ferns, Presiding
Motion to Compel (Further Interrogatory Responsesand Production of Documents (4);2) Second Motion to Dismiss andRequest for Terminating Sanctions3) Case Management Conference4) Re Counsel Pro Hac Vice) - Matter continued

Future Hearings

01/26/2009 at 08:30 am in department 69 at 111 North Hill Street, Los Angeles, CA 90012
Motion to Compel (Further Interrogatory Responsesand Production of Documents (4);2) Second Motion to Dismiss andRequest for Terminating Sanctions3) Case Management Conference)



12/03/2008 Order (ORDER RE STIPULATION OF THE PARTIES TO CONTINUE THE RULING ON DEFENDANT'S MOTION TO STRIKE COMPLAINT, DEFENDANTS' SECOND MOTION TO DISMISS, PLAINTIFF'S MOTIONS TO COMPEL THE PRO HAC VICE)
Filed by Attorney for Defendant/Respondent

12/03/2008 Stipulation (STIPULATION OF THE PARTIES TO CONTINUE THE RULING ON DEFENDANTS' SPECIAL MOTION TO STRIKE COMPLAINT DEFENDANTS' SECOND MOTION TO DISMISS, PLAINTIFF'S MOTIONS TO COMPEL THE PRO HAC VICE APPLICATIN)
Filed by Attorney for Defendant/Respondent

http://www.lasuperiorcourt.org/civilCaseSummary/index.asp?CaseType=Civil

Case # BC363201


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Nut44x4 on December 05, 2008, 06:51:42 AM
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/Scard%20Monkeys%20Mod/LOCK2.gif)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 - 12/5/08
Post by: ldstlou on December 05, 2008, 07:47:01 AM

-----Inline Attachment Follows-----

De wereld draait door 04-12-2008 ; Hero Brinkman about statements Rudy Croes

Host mentions two subjects he wants to talk about...two reasons to invite Hero Brinkman...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 - 12/5/08
Post by: ldstlou on December 05, 2008, 07:48:25 AM
oops!!! Trying again!!!


-----Inline Attachment Follows-----

De wereld draait door 04-12-2008 ; Hero Brinkman about statements Rudy Croes

Host mentions two subjects he wants to talk about...two reasons to invite Hero Brinkman...asks Hero with which subject he wants to start. The Antilles?

Hero: Yes, please.

H: Well the case...

Hero: Stay there (as in: only talk about that subject).

H: Stay there?

Hero: Yes, as far as I'm concerned yes.

H: No, I will talk about the terror threaths with you as well, if you don't mind.

H: The minister of Justice, Rudy Croes, has made public now that police chief Jan van der Straten, a Dutchman, had been sleeping the first ten days on Aruba, on purpose, because he's friends with Paul van der Sloot...the father of Joran...and this way the investigation….well actually corrupt from the beginning....you could say. To be short: there wasn't a decent investigation.

Hero: Yeah.

H: What's this?

Hero: I heard this before already; I had gotten a lot of tips from the Aruban community...also from the police that this was going on.

H: To be clear; you are known for your opinion that Aruba and the Dutch Antilles are a corrupt gang. That is a clear point of view and you might get tipped to confirm this. Did you know exactly how it happened...how it's in the papers now?

Hero: They're old stories...but it's the first time a Minister admits this....but only after he got problems with that police chief who was critical concerning the police department on Aruba. But it's completely incomprehensible that he's coming out with this after all those years.

H: That man knew about this all these years!

Hero: Yeah, apparently so.

H: So he's just as corrupt as...

Hero: Well, he just went through an investigation concerning corruption...and I'm not sure there is a verdict about that already...and this is really not that abnormal in Aruba - the Antilles.

H: Does this strengthen your opinion nothing is going right there?

Hero: It's no good there; definitely.

H: So in that way I almost have to congratulate you...you are right.

Hero: No, no... Actually you shouldn't congratulate any Dutchman that pays taxes but actually you should condole them. It is awful that we send millions and millions to those islands and every time it turns out it's a banana republic.

H: What are we going to do about it?

Hero: Sell it.

H: Sell?

Hero: Ah...yeah.

Other guest: That's a good one.

Hero: If there's money to be get out of it....No of course (as in: of course we're not going to sell it).

Hero: We have to pursue a path where those islands become completely independent from the Netherlands. The articles of association has to change completely; new articles of associaton have to be formed in a manner that the island can become completely independent.

H: This case of Natalee Holloway, which has become a case with mythical proportions by now by Peter R. de Vries.....should we do something about that?

Hero: Yes, I do think so. I think we need to get to the bottom of it.

H: How are we going to do this?

Hero: I've requested a letter from the Ministry, because of the statements from Rudy Croes I want to know what the government thinks about this....if it's correct. If the accusations of Minister Croes are correct; for example that a Dutch Minister requested 3 years ago that the fact that Joran was a Dutchman should be played down...let's..

H: Who could that have been? He didn't say which Minister...that can only be one though, right?

Hero: I'm going to ask the government...and they will surely answer me.

H: Who do you think it is?

Hero: I'm not going to tell you that.

H: Don't you think it's Hirsch Ballin?

Hero: I think a lot..and I might think  the same as you but I'm not going to say (what and the way he said it: he thinks it's Hirsch Ballin...MO)

H: A parliamentary investigation...you mentioned that before as well when it's about the Antilles & Aruba...you're still thinking about that?

Hero: Well, look...I just want to get to the bottom of this…but first we'll have a debate that will come from the letter I sent to the Ministry....If I don't get answers then I think we need to have a parliamentary investigation.

H: What do you think of the case Joran van der Sloot? We've heard so many stories by now...Peter R. de Vries did his best.

Hero: Yes, absolutely.

H: What do you think? Where is Natalee Holloway?

Hero: I'm afraid she's in the ocean.

H: Then the theory of Peter R. de Vries...the car conversations are correct according to you?

Hero: Uhmm..yeah, I do think so. But again, we can think about what possibly happened.....

H: Yeah...I was just curious what you think happened.

Hero: Well, that is what I think. But that's not really important...there has to come an investigation. I would like the Dutch government to send the National Police Internal Investigations Department to Aruba; to at least investigate the claims of Minister Croes. If that's true it could give a new opening in this awful case.

H: That the father is involved as well?

Hero: Yes. That is a good possibility.

Other guest: Then you also get that this police chief Van der Straten is also involved then...in fact you get a whole new cesspool.

Hero: Yeah, but again...it's the Antilles...and the Antilles are on big cesspool.

Other guest: that's why I think it should stay with us....in some ways it's a good soap...every time I hear stories about that banana republic there...in the end we are responsible for it......you can't say: sell it.....we need to get rid of it. You can't make them independent.

Hero: You can make it independent.

Other guest: ....(can't hear what he says)

Hero: I am convinced, if you don't give the people money and say...well you have a lot of debt...(Hero gets interrupted by the other guest a bit...can't hear what he's saying)...we are willing to invest 2 billion...because that's what we're planning to do; 2,5 billion we are going to invest....we are willing to do that but in the end you need to be completely independent from the Netherlands....than they will go along with that. Holland sold itself way to cheap....that's the complete story.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 - 12/5/08
Post by: ldstlou on December 05, 2008, 07:49:17 AM
Morning Monkeys...did I realy beat johan? lol


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 - 12/5/08
Post by: MumInOhio on December 05, 2008, 08:01:28 AM
Good Morning!

Kermit...I can't find a Digicel retailer in Noord. Still looking for more office info. Paulus said the CMB bank was in Noord...

Interesting who is listed as a Digicel retailer...Wonder about Setar?

 1. aba's Electronics
Certified Mega Mall, L. G. Smith Boulevard 150, 150, Oranjestad Tel:
Fax: 583-4557
583-4760 
 
 2. Digicel Store (Prossima)
L.G. Smith, Boulevard 128, Oranjestad Tel:
Fax: 583-1066
582-9355 
 
 3. Digicel Store Mainstreet
Caya G.F.Betico, Croes 51, Oranjestad Tel:
Fax: 583-6933
583-6928 
 
 4. Dragon CD & Electronics
B.v.d. Veen-Zeppenfeldstraat #48, San Nicolas Tel:
Fax: 584-3999
584-3353 
 
 5. Fast Phones
Queen Beatrix Airport, Oranjestad Tel:
Fax: 583-4429 / 730-0001
n/a 
 
 6. Lucky Electronics
Caya G.F. Betico, Croes 7, Oranjestad Tel:
Fax: 583-3389
582-3001 
 
 7. Lucky Super Store
J.G. Emanstraat 71, Oranjestad Tel:
Fax: 582-3001
582-3001 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 - 12/5/08
Post by: sharon on December 05, 2008, 08:16:18 AM
Good Morning!

Kermit...I can't find a Digicel retailer in Noord. Still looking for more office info. Paulus said the CMB bank was in Noord...

Interesting who is listed as a Digicel retailer...Wonder about Setar?

 1. aba's Electronics
Certified Mega Mall, L. G. Smith Boulevard 150, 150, Oranjestad Tel:
Fax: 583-4557
583-4760 
 
 2. Digicel Store (Prossima)
L.G. Smith, Boulevard 128, Oranjestad Tel:
Fax: 583-1066
582-9355 
 
 3. Digicel Store Mainstreet
Caya G.F.Betico, Croes 51, Oranjestad Tel:
Fax: 583-6933
583-6928 
 
 4. Dragon CD & Electronics
B.v.d. Veen-Zeppenfeldstraat #48, San Nicolas Tel:
Fax: 584-3999
584-3353 
 
 5. Fast Phones
Queen Beatrix Airport, Oranjestad Tel:
Fax: 583-4429 / 730-0001
n/a 
 
 6. Lucky Electronics
Caya G.F. Betico, Croes 7, Oranjestad Tel:
Fax: 583-3389
582-3001 
 
 7. Lucky Super Store
J.G. Emanstraat 71, Oranjestad Tel:
Fax: 582-3001
582-3001 


Good morning Mum!

EXCELLENT post yesterday morning  ::MonkeyCool::   ::MonkeyCool::  ::MonkeyCool:: 

Once you and the frog get this part nailed down -- do you mind looking into something for me  ::MonkeyHaHa::

I'm still wondering about the other 100+ targets that were charted for future dives. (once there was enough money, of course)

I wonder who has those coordinates now? Or if they are still deemed 'worthy' of investigation?

I wonder if those coordinates were/are for sale?

I also wonder if there has suddenly been a lot of 'diving' excurions lately by the Arubans.

.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: blah on December 05, 2008, 08:16:57 AM
Quote
Cover-up at the Top?

Aruba's minister of justice reportedly claimed that the police commissioner hampered the investigation into Natalee Holloway's disappearance to protect his friend - suspect Joran van der Sloot's father.

http://www.foxnews.com/video/index.html?playerId=videolandingpage&streamingFormat=FLASH&referralObject=3265793&referralPlaylistId=df5603c3d11ca9a023b0070cfc5f297e279fd3a7

http://www.foxnews.com/video/index.html?playerId=videolandingpage&streamingFormat=FLASH&referralObject=3265797&referralPlaylistId=playlist

Greta van Susteren should invite Peter R. de Vries or Hero Brinkman on the show via phone or video connection.

this will get reported on Dutch news the next day. when Peter R. de Vries went in Larry King, FOX, and more - it was got reported extensively on Dutch TV. they think their little country has some importance and are proud Peter R. de Vries.  ::MonkeyCool::
but this time Dutch people will feel embarrassed and demand action from there politicians.
at least i do. but i know many more do. but it media outrage needs to build up.

yesterday was the first time is saw Rudy Croes name mentioned on Dutch TV.
i bet many Dutch people don't even know Aruba has it's own Justice Minister.

not wanting to get political here.
but with Bush as President many Dutchies/Europeans wouldn't mind if some Americans called them names or called for a boycott. they just called some unrelated random abuse back.

but now with Obama (he is VERY popular in Holland/Europa) i think they will feel more embarrassed and ashamed of the lack of action of their Dutch government.

Wow, somebody actually found a way to try and blame this all on Bush.  Who woulda thunk?  Arent you Libs capable of a single rational thought?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 - 12/5/08
Post by: sharon on December 05, 2008, 08:20:19 AM
Can anyone get page 45 of this thread to load?

I'm not able to  ::MonkeyConfused::

Every other page loads fine. 45 won't load for me. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 - 12/5/08
Post by: blah on December 05, 2008, 08:24:34 AM
Can anyone get page 45 of this thread to load?

I'm not able to  ::MonkeyConfused::

Every other page loads fine. 45 won't load for me. 

45 loading, no problems here


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 - 12/5/08
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on December 05, 2008, 08:45:59 AM
Can anyone get page 45 of this thread to load?

I'm not able to  ::MonkeyConfused::

Every other page loads fine. 45 won't load for me. 

That's only happened to me a couple of times, Sharon....not sure of the cause.  Maybe a link will work?

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4186.880



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 - 12/5/08
Post by: Red on December 05, 2008, 09:01:07 AM
The Dana Pretzer Show On Scared Monkeys Radio - Listen LIVE Tonight At 9PM Eastern - “Are Defense Attorneys Monsters, Or Are They Just Doing Their Job?”

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2008/12/05/the-dana-pretzer-show-on-scared-monkeys-radio-listen-live-tonight-at-9pm-eastern-are-defense-attorneys-monsters-or-are-they-just-doing-their-job/

Don't miss tonight


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 - 12/5/08
Post by: Red on December 05, 2008, 09:02:50 AM
Natalee Holloway Missing in Aruba: Justice Minister Rudy Croes Says Van der Straten Delayed the Start of Investigations to Protect Van der Sloot (Cronyism & Cover Up)

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2008/12/05/natalee-holloway-missing-in-aruba-justice-minister-rudy-croes-says-van-der-straten-delayed-the-start-of-investigations-to-protect-van-der-sloot-cronyism-cover-up/

Talk about Isnad time ... 3 1/2 years and Rudy finally admits what we all knew from week one.

Quote
Remember how we said there is a little truth in every lie that comes from a sociopath? We go back to the VIDEO in a recent interview where Joran Van der Sloot stated there were police bribes. Was it the police that Joran named in the video? Probably not. Were there actual police bribes and cover ups that obstructed the investigation? According to Rudy Croes there certainly was.

Even farther back, remember when Joran Van der Sloot was once again on video with Dutch crime investigatior Peter R. de Vries when Joran Van der Sloot out of the clear blue stated that his parents had no involvement in the disposal of Natalee Holloway’s body. Interestingly enough, no one ever asked him the question.




Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 - 12/5/08
Post by: MumInOhio on December 05, 2008, 09:03:06 AM
Good Morning Sharon...Thanks for the reminder to check Kyle's posts!

Setar and Telearuba made me think of Kermit's pic, got sidetracked again...lol.

Interesting that the TV producer that supposedly committed suicide worked for Telearuba. And her cameraman also committed suicide within a week.

A message for sure!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 - 12/5/08
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on December 05, 2008, 09:07:49 AM
Good morning, Red....thank you for bringing Dana's show tonight & the front page to our attention!!!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 - 12/5/08
Post by: ldstlou on December 05, 2008, 09:34:17 AM

Holloway-case messed up by nepotism
4 Dec, 2008, 10:08 (GMT -04:00)


ORANJESTAD -- Jan van der Straten has messed up the investigation in the first ten days after it got out that the American teenager Natalee Holloway had disappeared. He helped his 'friend' Paul van der Sloot to protect his suspected son Joran.


Minister Rudy Croes of Justice speaks frankly about the initial stage of the Natalee Holloway investigation.
Justice-minister Rudy Croes says this now that he feels attacked by the former chief of police and the first investigation leader of the case. Van der Straten has criticized certain aspects of the Police Corps (KPA) earlier this week. "He has also compared our Guarda Nos Costa with a politically driven group à la Chávez (Venezuelan president)", says Croes. "He is an activist of the opposition party AVP, that's why, but he forgets that it is the Natalee Holloway-case that was driven by favouritism."

Wait till retirement
"I actually wanted to wait till my retirement next year to bring this into the open", continues the minister. "But the time has come to tell the truth. When the case came to light, I heard Van der Straten say literally: 'I can't let this happen to my friend Paul'. And then during the first ten days, there were heavy telephone traffic between him and Paul van der Sloot."

According to Croes, Van der Straten has perhaps consciously deployed the so-called flexiteam after the disappearance of Natalee. "He said in May 2005: 'I can solve this with my flexiteam'. As everybody knows, the flexiteam was a team that was put into action when the regular police team was over-occupied; for example during carnival.
A detective could be included in the team, but it was no police-team that was capable of doing an investigation. Why didn't he call in the taya-team (police officers with a lot of expertise and experience – red.)?"

There are more things that went wrong. "Why was a beach-bum accused at that time, who has been a choller before? He had supposedly done it, while internally it was known that he hadn't done it. Very special is also the fact that the Dutch language was used during Joran's interrogation, while he is fluent in Papiamento, same as our detective. Our people could have done their work much better if the conversations were done in their own language. Why was he so privileged? Simply because it were 'Dutch-friends'; all three of them: Joran, Paul, and Jan. Don't forget that a Dutch minister had asked me at that time not to mention that Joran is a European Dutch citizen. I won't say who this person is, but if by any chance I have to mention his name, I definitely will. We felt abandoned by the Netherlands when Aruba was so devastated by the case. I have told this to the Dutch premier Balkenende, state secretary Bijleveld (Kingdom Relations), and minister Hirsch-Ballin (Justice). But until now, everybody has remained quit and has let the world besmear Aruba's name. They abandoned us and let us suffer."

Croes is of the opinion that the solving of the case is with the three Dutchmen Van der Straten and Paul and Joran van der Sloot. He says that a new investigation team must come that consists of Arubans, Antilleans, and Americans. "Why did it never occur to them to remove Jan van der Straten from his position after those ten ill-bred days? In the case of Marlies van der Kouwe in Bonaire, police officers were taken off the case because they have failed. I challenge Van der Straten and Paul van der Sloot to come up with clarifications, so that Aruba's name can be cleared from this mess (porkeria).

http://www.amigoe.com/artman/publish/artikel_50147.php


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 - 12/5/08
Post by: sharon on December 05, 2008, 09:35:07 AM
Can anyone get page 45 of this thread to load?

I'm not able to  ::MonkeyConfused::

Every other page loads fine. 45 won't load for me. 

That's only happened to me a couple of times, Sharon....not sure of the cause.  Maybe a link will work?

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4186.880



Thanks! That worked  ::MonkeyConfused::


I think I must wake up late at night and sleepwalk and post as 'magnolia'  ::MonkeyHaHa::

So many times over the past few weeks -- she takes the words right out of my mouth  ::MonkeyHaHa::

(I hope that does not upset Magnolia)

Have a great day Monkeys. Justice for Natalee is on the way -- and I know that's what we all want.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 - 12/5/08
Post by: BUCKSHOT on December 05, 2008, 09:40:01 AM
Kermit says Natalee remains found in cage.
Others, who claim to have spoken to family, say that Natalee remains not found in cage.

Question: Who is right?
(Remember: Kermit never lies..., Is the family lying? Why?)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 - 12/5/08
Post by: sharon on December 05, 2008, 09:42:22 AM
Good Morning Sharon...Thanks for the reminder to check Kyle's posts!

Setar and Telearuba made me think of Kermit's pic, got sidetracked again...lol.

Interesting that the TV producer that supposedly committed suicide worked for Telearuba. And her cameraman also committed suicide within a week.

A message for sure!

Yeah. A lot of coincidences, huh ::MonkeyConfused::

I don't remember...but I 'think' it may have been ******* who shared with us the stories that these 2 newspeople were working on at the time of their untimely deaths.
.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 - 12/5/08
Post by: EURobert on December 05, 2008, 09:45:27 AM
Our ties to the US are more intensive then you might expect...

http://tinyurl.com/59skfa

Obama is een Leijenaarrrr juuhh!
(Obama is a Leiden-er juuhh!)

(Transl.: Google and me.)

The future U.S. president Barack Obama stems directly from the Leiden (NL) pilgrimsfamily ‘Blossom’.

Research has shown that the distant ancestors of Obama in Leiden have worked and lived before they left as ‘Pilgrim Fathers’ to America. Alderman Jan-Jaap de Haan (CDA, Culture) Friday in the Pilgrim Museum in Leiden made this public.

With this discovery Obama is the seventh U.S. President who has a direct ancestor in Leiden. It is a ten times great-great-grandfather.

The Pilgrims came to the city of Leiden in 1609 as refugees for the Protestant faith prosecutions in England. By fleeing to The Netherlands, they hoped to find religious freedom. From 1620 on they emigrated to North America to bring their own ideals of freedom into reality. In America, the Pilgrims are now regarded as the founders of the nation.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 - 12/5/08
Post by: vms on December 05, 2008, 09:48:15 AM
Blonde,
The Greta transcript is up but I'm confused on where it goes.  ::MonkeyConfused::


Holloway Cover-up By Aruban Law Enforcement?
Friday, December 05, 2008

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,462349,00.html


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 - 12/5/08
Post by: BettyLynn on December 05, 2008, 09:50:45 AM
JOSSY MANSUR TO DANA PRETZER: I have a video tape of Gerald Dompig that they do have sufficient material to bring these boys in on kidnapping and rape. Which would be 8 years imprisonment.

According to Gerold Dompig, the three boys admitted "that they did ‘have sex with’ this girl when she was going in and out of consciousness”. This is a fact.


The above from arubadirtypolice.blogspot.com  I think this was posted December 6,2006. In light of recent developments, perhaps Jossy would come forward with the tape.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 - 12/5/08
Post by: MumInOhio on December 05, 2008, 09:52:32 AM
Good Morning Sharon...Thanks for the reminder to check Kyle's posts!

Setar and Telearuba made me think of Kermit's pic, got sidetracked again...lol.

Interesting that the TV producer that supposedly committed suicide worked for Telearuba. And her cameraman also committed suicide within a week.

A message for sure!

Yeah. A lot of coincidences, huh ::MonkeyConfused::

I don't remember...but I 'think' it may have been ******* who shared with us the stories that these 2 newspeople were working on at the time of their untimely deaths.
.


Prostitution and Race Junkies IIRC


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 - 12/5/08
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on December 05, 2008, 09:56:16 AM
Blonde,
The Greta transcript is up but I'm confused on where it goes.  ::MonkeyConfused::


Holloway Cover-up By Aruban Law Enforcement?
Friday, December 05, 2008

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,462349,00.html

Thanks, vms.  I believe they should go here:

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4063.msg563871#new

I can copy it over there, and sticky it, so it's easier to find.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 - 12/5/08
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on December 05, 2008, 10:10:11 AM
Blonde,
The Greta transcript is up but I'm confused on where it goes.  ::MonkeyConfused::


Holloway Cover-up By Aruban Law Enforcement?
Friday, December 05, 2008

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,462349,00.html

Thanks, vms.  I believe they should go here:

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4063.msg563871#new

I can copy it over there, and sticky it, so it's easier to find.

I copied it to Blonde's transcript thread, but now am wondering if a couple of this week's transcripts are missing in there.  Will have to check.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 - 12/5/08
Post by: blah on December 05, 2008, 10:11:10 AM
Blonde,
The Greta transcript is up but I'm confused on where it goes.  ::MonkeyConfused::


Holloway Cover-up By Aruban Law Enforcement?
Friday, December 05, 2008

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,462349,00.html

Wow, that was great.  They ripped Aruba a new one!!! ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 - 12/5/08
Post by: crazybabyborg on December 05, 2008, 10:15:25 AM
You Hoo, 2nj! Have you got the thread change covered?

I'll help get you there, k?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 - 12/5/08
Post by: crazybabyborg on December 05, 2008, 10:17:42 AM
Blonde,
The Greta transcript is up but I'm confused on where it goes.  ::MonkeyConfused::


Holloway Cover-up By Aruban Law Enforcement?
Friday, December 05, 2008

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,462349,00.html

Wow, that was great.  They ripped Aruba a new one!!! ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyHaHa::

BIG TIME! It was great!

I'm still pondering this concept of a "first generation tape" being required for a voice exemplar. It would seem to me there would be a lot of first generation tapes that could be authenticated as Paulus already.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 - 12/5/08
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on December 05, 2008, 10:21:22 AM
You Hoo, 2nj! Have you got the thread change covered?

I'll help get you there, k?

Yes, I've been ready for a couple of hours, but it's been a little quiet until, now.   I anticipate Nut will be sneaking in to double lock, like last thread!!!   ::MonkeyHaHa::

Thanks, CBB.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 - 12/5/08
Post by: crazybabyborg on December 05, 2008, 10:25:16 AM
(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c100/crazybabyborgs/MOD/1LOCK.gif)


Well let's be sure everybody knows!   ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 - 12/5/08
Post by: MumInOhio on December 05, 2008, 10:25:42 AM
You Hoo, 2nj! Have you got the thread change covered?

I'll help get you there, k?

Yes, I've been ready for a couple of hours, but it's been a little quiet until, now.   I anticipate Nut will be sneaking in to double lock, like last thread!!!   ::MonkeyHaHa::

Thanks, CBB.


I can get on another roll...If you like? ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 - 12/5/08
Post by: crazybabyborg on December 05, 2008, 10:30:00 AM
What's the chances anything will come of the pointing game going on? I so want to believe!!!

If the pressure stays on from the tourist sector, and Joran's mouth continues to be able to form words, there's hope!!


(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c100/crazybabyborgs/NoTour.gif)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 - 12/5/08
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on December 05, 2008, 10:30:02 AM
You Hoo, 2nj! Have you got the thread change covered?

I'll help get you there, k?

Yes, I've been ready for a couple of hours, but it's been a little quiet until, now.   I anticipate Nut will be sneaking in to double lock, like last thread!!!   ::MonkeyHaHa::

Thanks, CBB.


I can get on another roll...If you like? ::MonkeyHaHa::

Go for it, Mum.    ::cartwheel::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Lala'sMom on December 05, 2008, 10:32:44 AM
One thing that I find interesting is posters coming in shifts to
discredit Kermit.  It is an organized thing.
Kermit post alone and always backs up his/her post.
The others post nonsense to attempt to confuse and discredit.
There is never anything substantial.
I have tried to stay quiet today and observe and that is what I
have noticed.

No one is trying to sideswipe Kermit.  I am tired of reading this...we are trying to tell you and everyone else that Beth and Jug...both of them find the insinuations about John, Kyle and Caps ridiculous and time wasted until something else comes of it all.  Right now they are more excited about the recent revelations from Joran.  Everyone wants to dismiss it as total lies, but I tell you right now...here...the family does not discredit all of it.  They have their reason and I have been asked not to explain the reasons.  They feel that Joran saying Paulus paid certain cops to help in the cover up make more sense than most anything they have heard. They experienced things and were told things that now make perfect sense that indeed Paulus was controlling things. 

The family realizes that finding Natalee is almost impossible at this point. What they want is the same as we do...they want to see Paulus in handcuffs and people ratting each other out.  Yet, they are still guarded because the corruption goes to Rudy as well.  It's hard to get action when the person calling for action is even more corrupt than those being accused.  If Paulus knew he could pay for loyalty what can Rudy get for his money?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 - 12/5/08
Post by: the big hammer on December 05, 2008, 10:34:43 AM
JQK & Aruban Arrest Threshold

KELLY: Right. And now we have more new evidence. We have clear evidence of the cover-up between the chief of police and Paulus van der Sloot in addition to the damning admissions made by Joran van der Sloot of criminal conduct, the kidnapping and trafficking and the implication of others.

Kelly is a top-flight attorney.  He has been supported by Chadbourne & Parke, a top flight international law firm.  They have undoubtedly studied Aruban and Dutch law intensely and are certain of their standing on the merits.

This cannot simply be ignored now.

Kelly is factually correct: the threshold for arrest and questioning has been reached.

We have watched two comlpetely innocent men be arrested and detained by Aruban authorities, on far less factual statements and evidence.

Aruba: out of the frying pan and into the fire.

.

 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 - 12/5/08
Post by: crazybabyborg on December 05, 2008, 10:35:43 AM
Just checked. Yep, his lips are still moving!  ::MonkeyWink::

(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c100/crazybabyborgs/Joranlips.gif)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 - 12/5/08
Post by: AZLady on December 05, 2008, 10:35:52 AM
I took caesu's advice and wrote an email to Hero Brinkman at http://www.pvv.nl/index.php?option=com_facileforms&Itemid=114

Van: AZLady [mailto:XXXXXXXX] (I've edited out my real name)
Verzonden: vr 5-12-2008 8:30
Aan: Brinkman H.
Onderwerp: bericht via de website vanaf ip-nr: 68.230.101.247


Mr. Brinkman,
Please ask for a parliamentary inquiry into the corruption on the island of Aruba.  Rudy Croes, the Minister of Justice on Aruba, states the former chief of police, Jan van der Straten, conspired to cover up the disappearance of Natalee Holloway and Joran van der Sloot\'s role in her disappearance.  Did Croes not know about this 3 1/2 years ago?  An international force like Interpol is needed to investigate this corruption.



Informatie uit de Tweede Kamer gecombineerd met achtergronddossiers en het laatste politieke nieuws.
Informatie ter oriëntatie op een bezoek, uitleg over hoe wetten tot stand komen en een rondgang door de geschiedenis van de Staten-Generaal.
Kijk nu op www.tweedekamer.nl

Disclaimer

Indien u de link niet kunt openen, neemt u dan contact op met telefoonnummer 070-3182211. Meer informatie vindt u op de website www.tweedekamer.nl

If you are unable to access the link, please dial +31 70 3182211.
Additional information is available on the website www.tweedekamer.nl and www.houseofrepresentatives.nl

Here is his response:

thank you for your email. I am very busy with this case and I agree with your option.
 
gr. Hero Brinkman


I'm pleased that he took the time to write back to me.  However, after reading the interview with Brinkman just posted, I do admit I'm not really onboard with his suggestion that Netherlands cut Aruba loose.  They would essentially be giving the island to Chavez.  Although, I think in more ways than one, the Dutch on Aruba have already made their deal with this devil.  Maybe it would be best to just get it out in the open and the whole thing can be exposed.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 - 12/5/08
Post by: crazybabyborg on December 05, 2008, 10:38:16 AM
JQK & Aruban Arrest Threshold

KELLY: Right. And now we have more new evidence. We have clear evidence of the cover-up between the chief of police and Paulus van der Sloot in addition to the damning admissions made by Joran van der Sloot of criminal conduct, the kidnapping and trafficking and the implication of others.

Kelly is a top-flight attorney.  He has been supported by Chadbourne & Parke, a top flight international law firm.  They have undoubtedly studied Aruban and Dutch law intensely and are certain of their standing on the merits.

This cannot simply be ignored now.

Kelly is factually correct: the threshold for arrest and questioning has been reached.

We have watched two comlpetely innocent men be arrested and detained by Aruban authorities, on far less factual statements and evidence.

Aruba: out of the frying pan and into the fire.

.

 


Hammer? Great to see you!!

Who do you think will see this through? Who is there that has some level of decency and also has some authority? I honestly don't know, and would love to be encouraged! TIA!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 - 12/5/08
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on December 05, 2008, 10:38:29 AM
I took caesu's advice and wrote an email to Hero Brinkman at http://www.pvv.nl/index.php?option=com_facileforms&Itemid=114

Van: AZLady [mailto:XXXXXXXX] (I've edited out my real name)
Verzonden: vr 5-12-2008 8:30
Aan: Brinkman H.
Onderwerp: bericht via de website vanaf ip-nr: 68.230.101.247


Mr. Brinkman,
Please ask for a parliamentary inquiry into the corruption on the island of Aruba.  Rudy Croes, the Minister of Justice on Aruba, states the former chief of police, Jan van der Straten, conspired to cover up the disappearance of Natalee Holloway and Joran van der Sloot\'s role in her disappearance.  Did Croes not know about this 3 1/2 years ago?  An international force like Interpol is needed to investigate this corruption.



Informatie uit de Tweede Kamer gecombineerd met achtergronddossiers en het laatste politieke nieuws.
Informatie ter oriëntatie op een bezoek, uitleg over hoe wetten tot stand komen en een rondgang door de geschiedenis van de Staten-Generaal.
Kijk nu op www.tweedekamer.nl

Disclaimer

Indien u de link niet kunt openen, neemt u dan contact op met telefoonnummer 070-3182211. Meer informatie vindt u op de website www.tweedekamer.nl

If you are unable to access the link, please dial +31 70 3182211.
Additional information is available on the website www.tweedekamer.nl and www.houseofrepresentatives.nl

Here is his response:

thank you for your email. I am very busy with this case and I agree with your option.
 
gr. Hero Brinkman


I'm pleased that he took the time to write back to me.  However, after reading the interview with Brinkman just posted, I do admit I'm not really onboard with his suggestion that Netherlands cut Aruba loose.  They would essentially be giving the island to Chavez.  Although, I think in more ways than one, the Dutch on Aruba have already made their deal with this devil.  Maybe it would be best to just get it out in the open and the whole thing can be exposed.

Thanks for sharing this AZLady.....


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 - 12/5/08
Post by: blah on December 05, 2008, 10:39:49 AM
Blonde,
The Greta transcript is up but I'm confused on where it goes.  ::MonkeyConfused::


Holloway Cover-up By Aruban Law Enforcement?
Friday, December 05, 2008

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,462349,00.html

Wow, that was great.  They ripped Aruba a new one!!! ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyHaHa::

BIG TIME! It was great!

I'm still pondering this concept of a "first generation tape" being required for a voice exemplar. It would seem to me there would be a lot of first generation tapes that could be authenticated as Paulus already.

Didnt Greta interview him and Anita in their house?  You know, the time he was sweating so bad?   What happened to that tape?

I guess the real point is the fact that the Aruban scumbags just dont care enough to prove/disprove it


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: MumInOhio on December 05, 2008, 10:40:34 AM
One thing that I find interesting is posters coming in shifts to
discredit Kermit.  It is an organized thing.
Kermit post alone and always backs up his/her post.
The others post nonsense to attempt to confuse and discredit.
There is never anything substantial.
I have tried to stay quiet today and observe and that is what I
have noticed.

Thanks Lala's for reminding me...

Here is the link for some early discussions in Shango on Clyde Burke. Kermie used a post to back up one of his posts...

Ask Lala's and Finngirl...It is all about context... ::MonkeyWink::

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1952.2860


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 - 12/5/08
Post by: AZLady on December 05, 2008, 10:41:47 AM
And, we all watched Peter de Vries' interview where both Anita and Paulus spoke during the interview.  There were other interviews conducted entirely in Dutch, too, that were aired.  If this isn't enough tape of Paulus' voice, then I don't know what is needed.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 - 12/5/08
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on December 05, 2008, 10:42:49 AM
Get ready..... ::MonkeyCool::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
Post by: Blonde on December 05, 2008, 10:43:12 AM
If Jan van der straaten is covering up, what do you call what Hans Mos isn't not doing alot of?

jan van der straaten "saw" the evidence. And he didn't see it on the beach.

the next wall to break down is focus on where she died, the van der sloot house.

What Does van der Straten Know About Natalee Holloway?

h/t to Hasibokus - read more there.

In a Dutch interview Aruban Police Superintendent Jan van der Straten told the reporter that he doesn’t believe that Natalee is still alive.

With regard to Natalee’s status, van der Straaten gave the following statement to a Dutch reporter:

Translation:

Rep: Any hopes for a positive outcome?

Jan: You always have to be hopeful, but I don’t believe anymore that we will find Natalee alive.

Rep: Why not?

Jan: Because I know the details of the investigation and you don't!

http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2005/07/what_does_van_d.html


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 - 12/5/08
Post by: crazybabyborg on December 05, 2008, 10:43:13 AM
Blah, I don't know what restrictions apply to a voice exemplar, and common thought is that Greta is just trying to force Mos's hand.

I'm not so sure. The cell tape was reviewed by 2 experts and one was sure it was clean and the other had suspicions. May not matter but the cell tape wasn't in English.

I think Greta would have loved to present the tape as being verified by 2 witnesses.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 - 12/5/08
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on December 05, 2008, 10:43:51 AM
(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d118/Sanddrops/Scared%20Monkeys/LOCKED2.gif)

Please move to NCD #782.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4209.0