Scared Monkeys Discussion Forum

(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b258/texasmom55/CarpePicNatalee1.png)

You are right...my bad...

Thanks, Klaas.  I was this close to being ready....

2NJ - you guys have been spoiling me.  I haven't had to do a thread change in a while so it was my turn  ::MonkeyWink::

The question is if remains were found in the trap, whos?

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub5/image532fx05a.jpg)

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub5/cagecomp.jpg)

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub5/trapkerm2.jpg)

42 Inch Diagonal Seems to Work

With an allowance for knee drop off -- height of superimposed image would be 36 inches.  Add 18 for knee to heel.  54 inches.  

Estimated and must allow for poor photo re pro, distance changes underwater, decomposition if applicable.

Natalee = 64 inches in height.

Nice work Klaas.

Looks like it makes reasonable tolerances.

.

Im watching dateline right now and i saw the divers do a thumb down.. that it wasnt what they were looking for, and i hit refresh and you pasted the same pic here haha! But yes.. who knows what was in there.. the pics arent that clear, i mean not in any way that you can say well its that or that etc..

http://www.24ora.com/content/view/6749/6/

man owing to burn completo in cas

 saturday, 06 december 2008

personal of central of police at curacao owing to send one patrol in direccion of barber for one cas cu will have to is at candela. at arrival of the patrol provided that berdad they owing to come come across cu one cas cu is completamente at candela. in the cas personal of brandweer owing to come come across one curpa completamente burn. the curpa owing to wordo take in beslag for more investigacion. come across

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub5/kima.jpg)

Must be another case of spontanious combustion like Pittbull   ::MonkeyNoNo::

Not sure why they would want to cooperate and check?  They've spent a whole lot of money and time covering everything up.

When I see those trap/cage pictures a few things come to mind.

What if the body were contained in a tarp when first disposed of?  Nothing in, nothing out but water and bacteria?  

On the lines of absorbant paper towels, what if the body were also wrapped in something like a sheet first?  Maybe that helped keep the pieces together and in that white shape?

Could the trap have been moved?  Towed to that location from another place?

If someone knew the Persistence was to search that area, and they wanted the body found, but not intact, could they have removed the covering and let nature take it's course over a span of a few months?  

Maybe that the white stuff in the photos?  Maybe they scattered stuff outside the cage as well?  

I wonder if they recorded all the evidence gathering?

Hammer - yes I wanted to see if it was possible.  I really didn't think it was until I determined the approx diag inches.  It is/was possible but of course, no way to say who's body was in the trap.

Yes it could.  Say if the trap was initially in much shallower waters it could have been towed further out.

Does this look like a sandal/shoe in the picture:

And they are in the center front of the cage, vs, where the items were located which is back left, how could they even react that quickly?  I agree with Tim, bull shit.

In other words Tamikosmom's landfill theory is still on the table.

  ::MonkeyDance::

Janet

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub5/TRAPSANDAL.jpg)

Hammer - what do you think?  Could that be a sandal?  Natalee was wearing brown Rainbow Sandals.

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub5/0757_2.jpg)

I have looked at that many times and thought it might be just the
rubber or leather sole of the sandal, with the rest rotted away.
But then I would think....why didn't they bag that?

Great job, Klaas.....another silly question.........I agree that it's a close match....BUT, why would they leave a sandal out of the now notorious ziplock bags?

i have no idea why they wouldn't bag it. 

Klass, you can probably help me out with this. Having a hard time figuring out how many little squares there are within the 30" area, but if my math is correct, what could be a sandal would only be around 3" long? Maybe I'm figureing it wrong.

oops...Klaas....sorry

Sorry if I upset anyone with this but I just found it where Blonde is putting all the details, it was written by Kermit.

What I know is: I gave a very detailed document that was given to Kathy & Clauseens (aka bestbuddy) when they went to Aruba. I later learned that it was turned over to DOMPIG. I thought it was Dave who turned it to Dompig. My gosh, it had so much information in that it isn't funny.

Rob, may know more then I do about that.
First of all I want to know what you sent us with, I didn't even know who you were until last week.  Second of all, the only thing given to Dompig was a piece of that goop from the dunes area of rocks, and that wasn't by me, that was by TM.  There were 2 pieces of it.  That was why the dunes was shut down while we were there for another search of the dunes.  So now that we have this straight, what would Rob know if he doesn't talk to me?  What was so detailed that you would let it go?  And who did you give it to?  It was not me.  The only thing I got before leaving was a camcorder from Funnysmart, and that was returned to her along with a copy of what I filmed.  Do not get me mixed up with other people.  IF you gave it to BB, she didn't see Dompig either, so I don't know where you are getting this info from.  Please do take that off this site.  And leave me alone, you are now considered harassing me.

Yeah, you are right.  Looks like it would be too small but it could also be at an angle.

Hotshot, I copied your post above and posted it in that thread.  Give me some time to sort this out.  At least your rebuttle is posted there now.

Good Night WhiskeyGirl,  I do love reading your posts that are full of spunk!

And TexasMom,  Tak sa mycker for this, and I too am passionate about JUSTICE FOR NATALEE:    (http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b258/texasmom55/CarpePicNatalee1.png)

You are amazing to always come up with photos.  I haven't found a photo thread here, so I assume you have saved these on your computer.  Thanks  xox

Thanks so much Klaas

ARGH, shiver me timbers, Matey

wwizard!  How the heck are you doing?

doin OK Klass, u/?

Same-o

So what do you think of Joran's latest admission/retraction?  ::MonkeyHaHa::

G'nite, all. 

Dunno, he's told so many tales. But...from the getgo, I......

Are you parking the iron and the board for the night, 2NJ?  If so, good night to you, my friend.

Wizard~  Long time no see!

Yes, I know  ::MonkeyHaHa::

Have a good night 2NJ.

Hi Scandi,
Not sure what "Tak sa mycker" means, but I think maybe "thanks"...so you're welcome!  ::MonkeyWink::

That photo is one that Carpe Noctem posted a while back and I saved it, he is great with photos, videos, and an amazing warrior for Justice for Natalee.  He has been gone a while now and I miss him very much!  He is also one of our most humorous monkeys, especially with his creative work on the Vandersloot family pictures, lol.  I hope he'll find his way back here soon! 

Hopefully we will all see some Justice for Natalee very soon!

 ::MonkeyCool::

Good night 2NJ!

wwizard's theory from June 2005: ::MonkeyCool::

NH is probably alive (if she's minding).....but she ain't n or around aruba....what seems like random events is really a well oiled machine and it is ABOVE THE LAW...this is white slavery territory we're n....no "rules".....I no the game now....and we ALL need to deal w/ it.......if there was no internet I wood no only watt the mainstream media tells me (laughable) and b OK......but I no more now....

the scam is this....the dutchguy is the setup man. he takes the "mark" and
plays kissy kissy wink wink all week and plants the "trust me" hook.....he
sets em up and the brothers carry em 2 the boat......after they seperate the "mark" from "the herd" (and they did) and away we go......no body ever found means no murder conviction.....they do their "time" and are released........what a gig......foolproof......I feel for the people caught up in this twisted vortex....the ONLY way her parents will ever see her is 2 pay 2 have her back and it's very slim odds because that wood b an admission of guilt by the pirates of the caribbean.....u just don't kill women like NH....unless u can throw away $20,000, $50,000, $100,000.........way 2 valuable......the abducted women cooperate or die....real simple....what wood u do in their place? b honest w/ yourself......I'm through checking EVERY headline cause it don't matter.....I now no how it's gonna play now.....the "student"
brothers......."students" of watt and tell me about their mainland
connections.....the 3 will b released.....b honest agin.......no
evidence.....if this disturbs u, I apologize, it's just the reality of the
situation......hug ur fam, kids, friends 2 day because ur free and not in a
nightmare like this......watt did NH ever do to warrant her punishment....the trio is a lot more scared of their BOSS than the law......all the king horses and all the kings men......be well

NH has been SOLD. Don't shoot the messenger. The truth is ugly and it hurts. We must deal with it though as adults and stop pretending it doesn't happen. There's BIG money playing this game. Here's an example:
You buy a blonde women (popular where everyone is dark headed) for $100,000.
She could easily make you $50,000 a year for say 20 years. After 2 years
she's paid for and pure profit. $50,000 x 20 years = $1,000,000.
We lead sheltered lives in the US. Painfull to think about but it happens
ALL the time. She's NOT on Aruba, look all you want. This is the ONLY
scenario that fits all the "evidence". She was stalked from day 1, nothing
accidental about it. Time will bear this out.

When the music's over
When the music's over
When the music's over
Turn out the lights
Turn out the lights
Turn out the lights

For the music is your special friend
Dance on fire as it intends
Music is your only friend
Until the end
Until the end
Until the end

Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the house of detention
I got some friends inside

The face in the mirror won't stop
The girl in the window won't drop
A feast of friends
"Alive", she cried
Waiting for me
Outside

Joran has all the bad luck   ::MonkeyWink::

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,463004,00.html

Many of Amsterdam's Brothels, Marijuana Cafes to Close
Saturday , December 06, 2008
 AMSTERDAM, Netherlands —

Amsterdam unveiled plans Saturday to shutter up to half of its famed brothels and marijuana cafes as part of a major cleanup of its ancient city center.

The city says it wants to drive organized crime out of the neighborhood, and is targeting businesses that "generate criminality," including prostitution, gambling parlors, "smart shops" that sell herbal treatments, head shops and "coffee shops" where marijuana is sold openly.

"By reduction and zoning of these kinds of functions, we will be able to manage better and tackle the criminal infrastructure," the city said in a statement.

It said it would also reduce a number of business it sees as related to the "decay" of the center, including peep shows, sex shows, sex shops, mini supermarkets, massage parlors and souvenir shops.

Click here for photos.

The city said there were too many of these and it believes some are used for money-laundering by drug dealers and the human traffickers who supply many of the city's prostitutes.

Under the plan announced Saturday, Amsterdam will spend $38-$51 million to bring hotels, restaurants, cultural organizations and boutiques to the center. It will also build new underground parking areas for cars and bikes and may use some of the vacated buildings to ease a housing shortage.

Amsterdam already had plans to close many brothels and said last month it might close some coffee shops throughout the city, but the plans announced Saturday go much further.

The city said it would offer retraining to prostitutes and coffee shop employees who will lose their jobs as a result of the plan.

Prostitution, which has spread into several areas of the center, will be allowed only in two areas — notably De Wallen ("The Walls"), a web of streets and alleys around the city's medieval retaining dam walls. The area has been a center of prostitution since before the city's golden shipping age in the 1600s.

Prostitution was legalized in the Netherlands in 2000, formalizing a long-standing tolerance policy.

Marijuana is technically illegal in the Netherlands, but prosecutors won't press charges for possession of small amounts and the coffee shops are able to sell it openly.

So if the Wizard is right...Joran might have been telling half truths in His latest confession/retraction with Greta....... ::MonkeyConfused::  ::MonkeyEek::

(http://www.foxnews.com/images/475801/1_61_120608_amsterdam.jpg)

AMSTERDAM, Netherlands —  Amsterdam unveiled plans Saturday to shutter up to half of its famed brothels and marijuana cafes as part of a major cleanup of its ancient city center.

The city says it wants to drive organized crime out of the neighborhood, and is targeting businesses that "generate criminality," including prostitution, gambling parlors, "smart shops" that sell herbal treatments, head shops and "coffee shops" where marijuana is sold openly.

"By reduction and zoning of these kinds of functions, we will be able to manage better and tackle the criminal infrastructure," the city said in a statement.

It said it would also reduce a number of business it sees as related to the "decay" of the center, including peep shows, sex shows, sex shops, mini supermarkets, massage parlors and souvenir shops.

Click here for photos.

The city said there were too many of these and it believes some are used for money-laundering by drug dealers and the human traffickers who supply many of the city's prostitutes.

Under the plan announced Saturday, Amsterdam will spend $38-$51 million to bring hotels, restaurants, cultural organizations and boutiques to the center. It will also build new underground parking areas for cars and bikes and may use some of the vacated buildings to ease a housing shortage.

Amsterdam already had plans to close many brothels and said last month it might close some coffee shops throughout the city, but the plans announced Saturday go much further.

The city said it would offer retraining to prostitutes and coffee shop employees who will lose their jobs as a result of the plan.

Prostitution, which has spread into several areas of the center, will be allowed only in two areas — notably De Wallen ("The Walls"), a web of streets and alleys around the city's medieval retaining dam walls. The area has been a center of prostitution since before the city's golden shipping age in the 1600s.

Prostitution was legalized in the Netherlands in 2000, formalizing a long-standing tolerance policy.

Marijuana is technically illegal in the Netherlands, but prosecutors won't press charges for possession of small amounts and the coffee shops are able to sell it openly.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,463004,00.html

See that one on the left ? omg.. RUN!!  ::MonkeyEek:: ::MonkeyTongue::

 ::MonkeyHaHa::  ::MonkeyLaugh::

Hi Klaasend,  I don't know if she is alive or was sold to someone and in slavery, and today is probably still alive and with us.  We all gave great thought to this early on, and thru statistics learned that they would steal away indigent girls to sell, and not white blonde American girls who would be noticed as being suddenly gone.

Who knows if this happened to Natalee.  Joran is on his last leg with telling the truth, so it is very hard to believe what he says now.

The doubts I have with it being Nataee in the cage is if someone swam down, opened up the cage to deposit her there, I don't think they would lay her out flat like has been put out here.  They would let her fall as she may land.  And looking at the whole cage in that really stupendous photo, I see quite a bit of stuff in the cage at the front of it as we see it, looking in.  I don't see that stuff in the photo's with the body laid out. 

I guess I am a bit skeptical about it being her, not to daunt any thoughts about that anyone here might have.  And I do find your question. who is it if it is not Natalee very thought provoking.  Why on earth would a dead human being be in a fishing trap and who could this be if it is not Natalee.

Like my friend The Rev says, pondering.  It gives much food for thought.  YaYa

PS:  Personally I don't think she was stalked from day #1 but it was a set of circumstances as to why she ended up in the wrong place at the right time.  Just my opinion.

Edward, LOL  ::MonkeyHaHa::

Wizard, how do you know the game now? ...but you know now? Is this why he knows the body will not be found since she is alive? Do you think the abducted woman cooperated or died?

You buy a blonde women (popular where everyone is dark headed) for $100,000.

I hate to ask this, but was Natalee a natural blonde? If so, that is very unusual.

Wizard makes a lot of sense, as much as I hate to admit.

I am aware that the post from Wwizard is from June 2005.   ::MonkeyCool::  I was just thinking out loud.

Shell - that has been wwizards theory since the very beginning.  Personally, I don't believe it but I wish I did.

Some people are desperate  ::MonkeyLaugh::

Wizard,
Barranquilla or Santa Marta?

As per Shango:

Only David left the den alive.

Klaas, it is possible. There is a lot of human trafficing we do not know about. I know you are aware of that. However, she is probably dead, I just can't figure how they could dispose of her body on an island, unless they took her out to sea. 

I might vote for landfill, if I ever had any experience in or had ever actually seen one.

All I am sure of is, Joran and his pals were last to be seen with her and LE and the entire bunch has done nothing to solve the crime.

And, when I take a cruise, I will not go anywhere near Aruba.

Exactly!

I always thought the fastest and easiest way would be to place her in someone elses crypt.

Klaas, someone elses crypt is so bizaar, but you know what, it could be the answer.

The problem I have is this. If a decaying body (as in another case we are both aware of) has such a long lasting stench, where did they stash the body until it was put in the crypt? Any ideas?

June-in the vast desert. Yeah, that might work.

Good night you all, I continue my prayers and support for Natalee.

Good Night Shell,  I see you have already left, but here's a teeny bit of good Karma to follow you thru the night, and see you tomoz.  YaYa

Gotta say,  I found Forumdom in 2002 when Elizabeth Smart suddenly vanished, with hardly a trace.  And I was hooked and have been every since.

This particular site is very special.  There are so many posters here who are truly die-hards in the case, studied and so intelligent in their quest.  Dedicated is what y'all are, every one.

I think all of this positive input in the case gives a depth to it.  It is all from goodness that everyone here is trying their best to put the last few pieces of the puzzle about what happened to Natalee and where she is, into place.  I really believe it will be solved and Natalee will have Justice someday.

 ::MonkeyDance::

How would Aruba have explained that Natalee was sold if they had 2 security guards in jail for murder?

Why would they have rushed to try to frame these guys if they didn't have a dead body at some point?

She's dead, she was killed and van der straaten and Janssen knew it. Van der straaten "saw" the evidence.

If they never had the "evidence" why bother arresting the guards? They needed time to get rid of the body. Not ship her off alive.

Without Beth, those guards may be in jail right now. The evidence being the stolen cameras from the Mountainbrook Students.

And speaking of those students, weren't they under suspicion by Dompig? When is he going to come back in the spotlight?

i signed up at the MEP party website.
this is the governing party of Aruba. next year there is a election.

they made it possible to ad personal blogs.
so i added some interesting information for voters. for example about Justice Minister Rudy Croes.

http://mep.aw/index.php?option=com_mamblog&Itemid=14&task=show&action=view&id=28&Itemid=14

(http://i37.tinypic.com/2ldvn9d.png)

http://mep.aw/index.php?option=com_mamblog&Itemid=14&task=show&action=view&id=29&Itemid=14

(http://i34.tinypic.com/11jpsg1.png)

http://mep.aw/index.php?option=com_mamblog&Itemid=14&task=show&action=view&id=30&Itemid=14

(http://i37.tinypic.com/zm1s1w.png)

http://mep.aw/index.php?option=com_mamblog&Itemid=14&task=show&action=view&id=31&Itemid=14

(http://i34.tinypic.com/28uh2xl.png)

http://mep.aw/index.php?option=com_mamblog&Itemid=14&task=show&action=view&id=34&Itemid=14

(http://i34.tinypic.com/28hn444.png)

here a list of al my blogs so far:
http://mep.aw/index.php?option=com_mamblog&Itemid=14&task=show&action=user&id=78

they've got a forum too, but i am not able to add topics.
signing up is possible here: http://mep.aw/index.php?option=com_registration&task=register&Itemid=4

caesu

Better keep your antivirus subscription paid up.   ::MonkeyHaHa::

Post any responses...

"How much money do you have"   -Dennis Jacobs

I agree.  I am sticking to what I said from the beginning and that is she is on land.

Kermit has never said that the family HAS the remains.

Kermit has said that their were remains in the cage.
Kermit, I believe, has said that the remains were NH.
Kermit has admitted to not being on the boat.

If Kermit was not on the boat, how would Kermit know this information?
I conclude that someone else on the boat also knows what Kermit knows.

Kermit, please clarify some simple YES/NO questions...

Were the remains, found in the cage that you refer to, those of NH? Yes or No.

Does a member of the Persistence know the same information? Yes or No.

Does the family of NH have the same "secret addidtional" photographs that you do? Yes or No.
Does the FBI have the same "secret addidtional" photographs that you do? Yes or No.
Does the ALE have the same "secret addidtional" photographs that you do? Yes or No.

There was a disagreement a few days ago about the fact that the family had seen the photographs and dismissed them as not being NH. Simple logic came to me, regarding clarification...

If the family has not seen these "additional secret" photographs, which SM posters feel are remians (possibly NH)...
Someone, with connections to the family, should make sure that they have the chance to view them.

Then, let us ask the family if, after viewing the "additional secret" photographs, they feel that they could be relevant to the recovery of NH, and or possibly her remains.

We could then determine if the family is choosing not acknowledge the relevance of the photos(for unknown specified reasons), whether they have even seen the aforementioned photos, or some posters (who claim to be friends of the family) are trying to steer us away.

As a matter of fact, a certain someone here, aka - the stealth operator - asked me repeatedly for all of the file numbers as she couldn't locate them herself. Actually they were quite easy to find, but that's neither here nor there. Finding them and matching them and cross referencing them was the tricky part and it took me three months with Klaas' help at times.

The Stealth Operator then told me in specific language that, that could never be confused with anything other than what it was - the SHE was now chummy with some Dutch chick on Aruba and her FATHER was a DUTCH OFFICIAL ON ARUBA. THE STEALTH OPERATOR WANTED the file numbers to GIVE TO THE DUTCH OFFICIAL.

After what I would consider borderline harassment, and daily, if not twice daily emails, requesting the file numbers TO GIVE TO THE DUTCH OFFICIAL, and me saying repeatedly to just give me one more day, I found that the STEALTH OPERATOR WAS NOT only conversing multiple times per day with none other than Joran van der Sloot himself, in what I would describe as super ass-kissing sessions, but the STEALTH OPERATOR was also in cahoots with Gerold Dompig. Puttin' two and two together can only lead me to believe that Dompig wanted the file numbers and was too damm stupid to find them himself.

*BTW- I know for a fact that the STEALTH OPERATOR was talking to Joran because she send me screen shots of their conversations to PROVE she was in fact talkin' to him.   

Kermit, right or wrong, has always seemed to step up to the plate.
Kermit has always attempted / verified her posts.

Kermit could be a dis-informant for all we know. No one knows.
It appears, on surface level, that she is not.

An obvious conclusion, as my previous post alludes, can be drawn.
Kermit not on boat. Kermit knows of remains. Conclusion=Someone else knows. Who??

Hmmmm ::MonkeyShocked::

And the cemetery???

I have tried to find the truth for Natalee, even if that takes me in unpopular directions.  I get the message.

You get what message?  Sorry but I don't understand your post.  We have all gone in unpopular directions at times including me.  What are you saying?

Good morning all,

Looks like I missed caesu, but maybe you can answer this Johan?

I have tried to educate myself on the Rijksrecherche.

How is it that an investigation can be initiated?  Who can make such a request?  TIA

Helen Back

 

Kermit's theories are Kermit's theories and ... something akin to Tamikosmom's theories ... they are subject to change.

However ... the ROV images and ... the Kyle email quotes are either a hoax or the truth revealed.

When I consider ... Kermit's long time dedication to the cause of justice for Natalee Holloway that is revealed in her/his posts and ... her/his willingness to share countless hours of research exposing the suspects and the corrupt investigation in Natalee forums and ... Kyle's acknowledgement in his own words of communication ... unless otherwise indicated ... I will uphold the motives and integrity of Kermit.

Janet

_______


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #777 11/21/08 thru
« Reply #737 on: November 23, 2008, 04:56:12 PM »

I'll tell you what is going on. oceanexploration just needs to say YES to moi!

But it seems he left.

I'm going to go get some flies.

I have not, nor would or will I ever lie to ANYONE! It is not how I live my life. And I won't start now.

What I have said is the truth, I confronted him, he took off. Maybe he needs some time to plan another diversion or search his soul. I hope it's the latter.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4159.msg554371#msg554371


oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #777 11/21/08 thru
« Reply #820 on: November 23, 2008, 06:46:34 PM »

Kermit,

First, I have NEVER threatened you.  The only thing I said to you is that I do not want to be sued by releasing information into the public that I was specifically told by OUR FBI as confidential. When I'm told not to comment by our FBI, I listen. You clearly do not understand this.

I made a mistake trusting you with so much as a greeting.  It was a gross misjudgement in character on my part. 

We all want the truth out in it's entirety.  The truth will be told by Beth in her terms when SHE feels ready.  It's not up to you or I. If you want the truth, ask BETH, not me.  Your answers will come from her.   

As for me, I stand by Natalee.   I'm sorry Kermit, my answer is NO.  This is my last post at SM.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4159.msg554523;topicseen#msg554523


++++++++


The following is the third updated compilation of quotes derived from emails communication between Kermit and Kyle.
________

Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #779 11/24/08 -
« Reply #532 on: November 25, 2008, 07:06:45 PM »

From Kyle: march 18, 2008: If you want, you can get Red from SM off my back. I really don't like that guy. He thinks he knows what's going on but doesn't have a clue. I first saw the pics on the SM home page and fired off an email to Red believing that he would be understanding and help provide answers. I quickly found out what happened on my own and dealt with it. I could not believe his response.

~Kyle

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4179.msg557660#msg557660


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #779 11/24/08 -
« Reply #532 on: November 25, 2008, 07:06:45 PM »

From Kyle: I have not given anything to the FBI since the pictures and statements from Dec 29th

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4179.msg557660#msg557660


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #779 11/24/08 -
« Reply #532 on: November 25, 2008, 07:06:45 PM »

From Kyle: None of us gave any statements to the authorities after the 29th. It's possible John Silvetti did, because he was the only one conversing with them after Jan 7th.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4179.msg557660#msg557660


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #779 11/24/08 -
« Reply #532 on: November 25, 2008, 07:06:45 PM »

From Kyle: May 8, 2008: "I've talked with Peter Shouten numerous times back in February. He hasn't seen anything but knows about the blue fabrics. DeVries and Endemol was interested in purchasing the ROV footage and I was working between them, ABC, and CBS to strike a deal."

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4179.msg557660#msg557660


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #888 on: Today at 02:43:35 AM »

Jan. 7th picture Kyle said: "In case it isn't clear.. notice the blue denim-like fabric”

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564718#msg564718


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #902 on: Today at 03:09:00 AM »

Kyle said: "The Aruban divers were on the police boat, dove from their boat, and returned to their boat."

Kyle said: "They were immediately whisked away by the Aruban police and not seen of again by us on the 7th"

Kyle said: " John stood back and waited and worked with the Aruban Polis"

Kyle said: "John definitely believed the Arubans at their every word"

Kyle said: "John didn't want Tim Miller on board the Persistence because he said Tim wasn't necessary any more and was a liability"

Kyle said: "John told me then he didn't want to hear me ever mention the trap again."

June 10, 2008 = Kyle states: “He's [John Silvetti] seriously making plans to open an Aruba office so he can conduct business easier in S. America and that would allow him to do that."

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564763#msg564763


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #903 on: Today at 03:12:23 AM »

Kyle said: "Schafer is sue crazy."

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564766;topicseen#msg564766


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #897 on: Today at 03:02:28 AM »

Kyle: “I did not feel the same and we had a major difference in opinion. He [John Silvetti] was the one who never pressed ALE to be completely open with us with the trap evidence. I would have forced them to. However, John was the one paying my invoices so I was forced to sit back and hope for the best.”

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564753;topicseen#msg564753


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #883 on: Today at 02:39:52 AM »

Kyle said: " We all know it wasn't a blouse, but I believe they were sent some piece of fabric other than the fabric found inside the trap.”

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564707#msg564707


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #896 on: Today at 03:00:21 AM »

Kyle said: "The blue fabric was found right where the skirt is pictured. If it isn't her, it will forever haunt me as a major cosmic WTF.”

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564748;topicseen#msg564748


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #896 on: Today at 03:00:21 AM »

Kyle said: "We're being fed misinformation to keep us searching and out of their way while they cover their asses, destroy evidence, cover their tracks, and keep us out at sea and away from the trap."

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564748;topicseen#msg564748


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #888 on: Today at 02:43:35 AM »

Jan. 7th picture Kyle said: "In case it isn't clear.. notice the blue denim-like fabric”

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564718#msg564718


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #779 11/24/08 -
« Reply #532 on: Today at 07:06:45 PM »

From Kyle: May 8, 2008: "I've talked with Peter Shouten numerous times back in February. He hasn't seen anything but knows about the blue fabrics. DeVries and Endemol was interested in purchasing the ROV footage and I was working between them, ABC, and CBS to strike a deal."

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4179.msg557660#msg557660


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #882 on: Today at 02:36:28 AM »

Kyle said: "Louis is currently working with someone who I do not know to put together some documentary on the case, the way it was handled, and what happened during the search. I learned this from Tim T. yesterday. Louis was sold on the idea that it will make him a lot of money.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564701;topicseen#msg564701


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #802 on: December 02, 2008, 05:16:26 PM »

Kyle said: “The portion of the discolored blue fabric was presumably on the bottom of the fabric. In my opinion this discoloration is not another type of fabric, but rather biological staining or discoloration from biological growth caused from a high organic carbon content and decay. Basically, during decay a biological mat will form around the organics from remains. This is what I believe it is on the bottom of the fabric.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564125;topicseen#msg564125


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #779 11/24/08 -
« Reply #642 on: November 25, 2008, 10:12:27 PM »

May 8, 2008 = from Kyle: John Silvetti told me today that he may be returning to Aruba very soon for a few days.

May 19, 2008 = from Kyle:
"I couldn't get the logs from the Persistence. All things "Holloway" were stripped from the boat once it got back to Louisiana

JUNE 10, 2008 = from Kyle:
He's [John Silvetti] seriously making plans to open an Aruba office so he can conduct business easier in S. America and that would allow him to do that.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4179.msg557914;topicseen#msg557914


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #779 11/24/08 -
« Reply #635 on: November 25, 2008, 10:06:58 PM »

from Kyle: "It was confirmed by the FBI that they received a fabric sample send by Richardson and that it wasn't a match to Natalee's blouse. I think the video can prove or disprove whatever the FBI was sent was the same object or not. I strongly believe it's blue denim. Everyone I show thinks the same thing without being prompted (including senior ABC execs).

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4179.msg557906;topicseen#msg557906


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
« Reply #663 on: Today at 09:55:44 PM »

Kyle stated: "John is not a believer in the trap. He took ALE's word as gospel that it wasn't case related, yet never studied the videos or bothered to inquire further."

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4186.msg566856;topicseen#msg566856


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #782 12/5/08 -
« Reply #137 on: Today at 04:07:13 PM »

Klye stated: " We're being fed misinformation to keep us searching and out of their way while they cover their asses, destroy evidence, cover their tracks, and keep us out at sea and away from the trap."

Kyle stated: "neither Dave, Robin, or Beth has seen any of the ROV footage aside from what was broadcasted on Dateline or the pictures leaked from the FBI to Dave (and Robin H.). Beth has seen nothing in my knowledge."

Kyle stated: "John is not a believer in the trap. He took ALE's word as gospel that it wasn't case related, yet never studied the videos or bothered to inquire further. He had plans on doing business with Aruba and in S. America and he didn't want to hurt any feelings by talks hinting at lack of complete trust and friendship."

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4209.120


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #782 12/5/08 -
« Reply #275 on: December 05, 2008, 07:05:44 PM »

Kyle said: "Notice the end of the skirt is an identical match to the 90 degree angle in the sand.
- I believe her left arm was outstretched with her legs slightly bent. I did not edit the legs.
- I believe the tarp was placed over her and tucked around her, or perhaps tied down. I believe there are several rocks laying on the sand which were placed on the tarp, or inside the tarp over her body which explains their unusual location.
- Either way, the proportions appear promising.

Kyle said: “- I took the proportions of the body form from the head, to shoulder, to a 90 degree angle which I believed to be the hem line of Natalee's skirt. I then took those proportions and matched them to the photo of Natalee with what she was last seen wearing. The proportions matched within an inch from head, to shoulder, to skirt line.

Based on this comparison and with what we believed we saw in the Dec 29th video, Tim Miller contacted the family and told them the 99.9% comment. I told Tim not to do anything until we have forensic results back after the site is processed.

Jan 7th we sampled the contents and in my opinion we found the skirt under the sand along with the other items

The blue fabric was found right where the skirt is pictured. If it isn't her, it will forever haunt me as a major cosmic WTF.”

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4209.msg568246;topicseen#msg568246


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #782 12/5/08 -
« Reply #524 on: December 05, 2008, 11:59:23 PM

kyle stated: "Richardson was onboard the Persistence several times and attended the meetings on the boat. You may see a glimpse of him on the Dateline video in the survey room along with Mos standing over my shoulder.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4209.msg568677;topicseen#msg568677

GOOD MORNING MONKEYS!!!

Later, Janet
8:40 AM PT

OT:

Please take a moment today to remember December 7, 1941 ... Pearl Harbor Day, a date that will live in infamy.

Remembering Pearl Harbor … December 7, 1941 … Thank You to the Greatest Generation

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2008/12/07/remembering-pearl-harbor-december-7-1941-thank-you-to-the-greatest-generation/

Freedom is never free.

Sorry to quote myself, but I forgot to say pretty please Johan! ::MonkeyHaHa::

I have read the website and could not find the information on how this request is made.  Who can make this request?  It says that investigation begins within one hour of request!

Will you call them please? ::MonkeyHaHa::

Mission Rijksrecherche

"As part of the Dutch police, the Rijksrecherche, nationally and internationally, to ensure the integrity of and public confidence in command of the PPS independent investigation to be carried out by (alleged) criminal behavior, with particular officials. The investigation of the Rijksrecherche focus on truth which linked the provision of advice in specific cases. "

http://www.om.nl/organisatie/rijksrecherche/organisatie/

Yes, thank you.

For correctly carrying out one and other, the Board of Procurators General has issued a directive. The objective of the directive is to explain the criteria according to which the rijksrecherche may be deployed (see Core Tasks / deployment criteria).

I am wondering about the deployment criteria.  I am wondering what criteria must be met in order to have an investigation, and who must make such request?

Could not find this info on their website. ::MonkeyConfused::

Thanks

Thanks for that Tamikosmom,  Now I understand why Klassend feels so strongly there was a body discovered in the trap.  I wish I knew who our Kermit really is as he/she is definitely a special frog!    ::MonkeyWink::

Thanks Red for the reminder about D-Day.  I graduated from HS in '62 and had several friends whose fathers were right there in the mix.  My dad was building roads in the Phillipines with the Army Corps of Engineers.  We owe each and every soldier a great debt of gratitude for what they have done for our freedom.  xox

Posted in Shango/Simian thread: Thought it was worth bringing over...

posted by SantaClaus on December 5th, 2008 8:06 pm 
TWAS THE NIGHT BEFORE PAYOFFS

‘Twas the night before payoffs, when all through the House
Not an elder was stirring, not ev’n a whiskered mouse;
The stockings were hung by the chimney with care,
In hopes that their wampum soon would be there;
The offspring were nestled all snug in their beds,
While visions of Bangbus vids danced in their heads;
And mama with her kerchief, and I with my cap
Had just settled down after beating a long rap.

When out on the lawn there arose such a clatter,
I sprang from the bed to see what was the matter.
Away to the window I flew like a flash,
Tore open the shutters and threw up the sash.
When, what to my wondering eyes should appear,
But a sh*t load of press folks, and her family I fear!
With such little time for a story to stick.
I knew in a moment I had to think quick.

More rapid than eagles his coursers they came,
So I grabbed my wife’s cell and called them by name;
“Now, Jan! now, Deepak! now, Satish and Steven!
On, Guido! on Greg! on, Koen get leavin’!
To the top of the porch! to the top of the wall!
Now dash away! dash away! dash away all!
Before we all get caught and the teepees all fall!
So off to the airport, the Netherlands they flew,
With the sleigh full of payoffs, and all that they knew.

And then, in a twinkling, I heard on the roof
The prancing and pawing of each sporter’s hoof.
As I drew in my hand, and was turnng around,
Down the chimney he came with one sneaker a bound.
He was covered in mud, from his waist to his foot,
And his clothes were all muddy with what looked like soot.
A bundle of money he flung on his back,
And he looked like a peddler just opening his pack.

His eyes — one was smaller, he talked of our Mary!
His cheeks red from drinking, his nose like a cherry!
His droll little mouth was drawn up like a bow,
As he stood with two Hindus, who were both in the know.
Biting his tongue, trying to save his face.
He listened to his daddy, no body no case.
He had a broad face and tons of plaid shirts.
while that night his friend said he took several squirts.

He was a tall sporter, a jolly old elf,
And I laughed when I saw him, in spite of myself;
A wink of his smaller eye and a twist of his large head,
And when he opened his mouth daddy had everything to dread;
While he spoke not the truth to the media at work
Daddy filled all their stockings thinking “I’m raising a jerk.”
And laying his finger aside of his nose,
He sniffed up that line and up the chimney he rose;
He sprang to his sleigh, to his team gave a whistle,
And he flew off to Thailand as quick as a missile
But I heard him exclaim, ere he drove out of sight,
“You’ll never arrest me, and to all a good-night.”

BUT THE MONKEYS PROCLAIMED - NOT WITHOUT A FIGHT

 ::MonkeyLaugh:: ::MonkeyWaa:: ::MonkeyHaHa::

 two years  imprisonment  for corrupt custodian
6 Dec, 2008, 14:49 (GMT -04:00)
ORANGE CITY - The public prosecutor yesterday demanded two years imprisonment for corruption suspect Omar H. prison guard. The depositary would end 2006 to mid this year, drugs, mobile phones and other belongings have traded in prison KIA.
According to the Public Prosecutor (OM) is the man so corrupt that he is also at least five years after serving his punishment should not exercise his profession. In exchange for delivering the products, gifts, he would have adopted. He also prosecuted for possession of two kilos of marijuana. H. denies the allegation and said only CDs, creams, and Vicks for the prisoners and have taken no drugs and phones. During the handling of the case, the judge, however, that he is in possession of detailed descriptions of how H. the smuggled stuff inside, and what the prices of the products were. A mobile phone would vary between eight hundred and nine hundred florin, while marijuana for an amount of 100 florin would have demanded. He passed the checks by the 'ordered' stuff in his underpants to stop and got there in the cell of a 'client' only off.
H. Friday continued to deny everything, and sees the whole case against him as a "set up" because he was preparing a report stressful enough stand against some or any of the prisoners who trade from the paintings did. The prosecutor, however, the courts could produce a recording, which is to hear how H. and another person agreed on marijuana. On December 12 the court ruling.

Scandi,


I love your avitar!   ::MonkeyHaHa::

So true, thanks for the reminder Red!

Thanks Johan!

Now...what are they going to do about Paulus Van der Sloot and his smuggling operation to his son????   ::MonkeyRoll::

 

Can you explain what is so special about a person who asked permission to post portions of a  PRIVATE dialog, was NOT given permission, but posted it anyways? That is special? I think it is wrong. You do all understand that Kyle's posts were part of a DIALOG!! amongst trusted friends..or so it appears to me. I doubt this was Kyle talking to himself...so why just post Kyle's portion? Were there others who agreed, disagreed? And you wonder why I keep harping the "out of context" message...because anytime you take posts out of a dialog...you take it out of context!!!!

 

Can you also tell me what is so special about a person who claims they are being "threatened" not to post any additional info..when they have not been? Hey kermit, I saw the "threatening e-mail". You have posted everything else out of context, why withhold the "threats". Because there weren't any.

 

IF...lets assume IF these posts Kermit is posting were taken from a private forum, where confidentiality was SACRED!!!!!!!! so that people could discuss the Persistence search and noodle out ideas, information, facts, theories, fears, etc.....a private forum that was DEDICATED TO FINDING JUSTICE FOR NATALEE!!! where CONFIDENTIALITY had to be SACRED!!!! would you still consider Kermit so "special"?

 

If the posts that Kermit is posting...were SHARED!!! OPENLY!!! not covertly..OPENLY in a P_R_I_V_A_T_E forum...a "think tank" per se, amongst trusted and dedicated people who have spent the last three and a half years dedicated to posting the truth about Aruba and seeking justice for Natalee...would that change your opinions of the information that Kermit is posting at all? Would you then think what was posted was taken out of context. Would you be less likey to question the integrity of Kyle and the members of the Persistence? Would you question then...as I am...Kermit's motives? Is it really the truth she is looking for?

Well, I find that remark particulary offensive.  Just WTF do you think we're all spending time on here doing?

And, btw, all those exclamation points reek off jr high school.

JMO

Thanks Lifesong, I had the same thoughts.   ::MonkeyNoNo::

it's complicated.
but to put it simple, the board of Procureurs-General decides if the Rijksrecherche is going to be used.

but the difference here is that the Netherlands and Aruba have two different Openbaar Ministeries (Public Prosecution).
they are separate. Aruba has his own Procureur-General, who doesn't sit at the board of Dutch Procureurs-General.

so the usual criteria don't apply here.

there is however a option for special, unusual cases:
http://www.om.nl/organisatie/rijksrecherche/inzetcriteria/afwijkende/
there it even says "foreign corruption".
but it doesn't give much detail about the deployment, criteria there.

but i suspect that this comes down to a decision by the Justice Minister of the Netherlands, Hirsch Ballin.
it's really a political decision to have the Aruban ALE investigated, ultimately decided by the Kingdom Cabinet.

and if there is consensus in the Dutch Parliament that they want the Government to enforce article 43 of the Statute (about good governance, rule of law), only then the Dutch Justice minister will do something.

when the Kingdom relations get restructered for the other islands the Dutch Minister of Justice will have more power.
he is going to have 'aanwijzingsbevoegdheid', he can direct the Procureur-General to start a prosecution or abort a prosecution. reason for this is to deal with politically influenced prosecutions - in other words: corruption.
but Aruba (Rudy Croes), has managed that the Dutch Justice Minister doesn't have this power towards Aruba.
http://antilliaans.caribiana.nl/aruba/car20080219_eigen-PG

by the way, Curaçao is very angy that for them the Dutch Justice Minister has this special power.
in June there were race-riots on Curaçao.
the man behind this, Helmin Wiels is threatening to disrupt the Round Table Conference and the day before when there is a 'Kingdomconcert'.
http://antilliaans.caribiana.nl/kort-nieuws/car20081129_ANP-concertactie


so through article 43 is the only option for Aruba

that's why i keep repeating that it is important to contact the Dutch members of Parliament.
and the coming week is crucial with debates on Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday - leading op to the Round Table Conference between the three Prime-Ministers with Balkenende presiding in Curaçao on December 15th.

list of members of Parliament of the Aruban/Antilles committee:
http://www.tweedekamer.nl/kamerleden/commissies/NAAZ/index.jsp#0
names on top of the list are the highest ranking members.
(e-mail will appear if you click on a name and "Naar persoonlijke pagina").

Caesu,
Thank you!   ::MonkeyCool::

I agree 1000%. All of this "we are the priviliged few with the inside scoop" pisses me off. I haven't spent 3 /12 years trying to find answers here and then be treated as  "unworthy" of knowing the "REAL" facts. I just as soon you all take your "private forum" and stuff it.

Wreck, Lifesong and others, don't feel bad.  I was not invited to that particular forum either.    ::MonkeyCool::

No need for the personal attacks.

And there ARE private forums, if the members agree that the information that is discussed will be held in private. This is an open, public forum. There is a difference!

If someone gives their word, that a discussion will not leave a forum, and then they copy and paste.."portions" of the discussion..I see nothing "special" at all about that and I can use all the exclamations I want to to make my point.

I was told that was not allowed here at SM when I brought a private im  here and posted it. Why is it ok for Kermit, because the information is interesting? Kyle explained why he would not give permission, his wishes were ignored and Kermit has been allowed to post away freely information that was supposed to be confidential. Whether it's "juicy" or not, in my mind, it is the wrong thing to do.

 ::MonkeyDance::

Thank you, Caesu,

Yes this is very complicated for me to understand, but I am trying!  ::MonkeyConfused::

I assumed that Rudy Croes' own statement of corruption would be sufficient, but now understand that it is not.

It is particularly difficult to understand Aruba's status aparte, while having  financial dependence on the Netherlands.   It seems like a loophole allowing them to do whatever they want.  Too bad you guys have to support this BS with your taxes! ::MonkeyNoNo::

Thanks for the info.  I will do my best to communicate to the ministers.  Wish me luck! ::MonkeyWink::

I would have liked to have been a member too...I wasn't invited. The issue is, imho..that those who were invited, agreed to keep the information they discussed confidential. That confidentiality has allowed the group to do some tremendous work. How can it ever continue now when the trust has been broken. that is the biggest shame of it all. I was taught if you give someone your word, you keep it.

What are you talking about...I am referring to kermit.

Well OBVIOUSLY, Kermit thought the TRUTH (in her opinion) outweighed the "sanctity" of the private forum.

I am NOT a member of the private group for your information. I just think it is wrong what kermit is doing and I am expressing my opinion. If you feel you have to attack me go ahead.

the truth according to kermit. We don't know the whole truth because she is only posting what fits her truth.

And your "buddies" in the private forum are doing exactly the same.

You can't judge all sides unless you can SEE all sides.   

Justice is justice in my opinion..and breaking someone's trust is not the just thing to do.

and another AMEN!! from the back row!   ::MonkeyWink::

And I am expressing mine.  I have kept quite but now it is getting out of hand.  If you are not a member of the private group then someone is feeding you information and you choose to believe them.

that is my point. And taking one member's posts and bringing them here is not allowing me to see all sides.
And Wreck..one more time...I am not a member.

Ronald Reagan said "Trust, BUT VERIFY". Apparently, Kermit is verifying.

ok..then explain to me how I am misinformed? kermit WAS given permission to bring those posts here?

You see it as an attack, but I see it as a rebuttal.  I, personally, don't see how your opinion on what Kermit has posted here has anything to do with Natalee.   If you were not invited to be a member of the so called private forum, then where are you getting your info from???? 

I totally agree.  Private forum my eye.  If you belong to that private forum take your opinions back to it.  We are simple people here, not part of a clique.  I see what I see and NO ONE can tell me any different.  THERE is a body in that cage.  I HAVE NO IDEA who's it is but all of this secret agent sh$t is starting to wear thin.  Spit it out what you know or take it back to your Private Forum. Something does not add up here about all of this.  Personally, I have a tendency to believe Kermit.  I would like to hear more from Kyle concerning all of these accusations. JMO 

Wreck, tell me how kermit is verifying? And tell me how I am supposed to trust her information when I now know where it came from and the circumstances?

I have looked at the pictures and watched those videos over and over.  I dont think they are human remains.  I think the blue fabric is a baseball hat just as Annna has suggested.  I dont think this cage/trap has anything at all to do with Natalee and I think people who are calling OE and the crew of the Persistance liars and traitors should tone it down just a tad until a time where they have some concrete evidence that they are what they say.  I've been wrong before and could be wrong about this but I just dont see any solid evidence of human remains.

Kyle is welcome to post a rebuttal here.  Neither Kyle nor Kermit are banned from posting at SM.  They can "duke" it out if they choose to.  Then we can all see both sides.  

and that is my point exactly. If you decide to break the forum rules, and bring the info from a forum that agreed to keep info confidential, and no one else in the private group is breaking the confidentiality agreement, then how do we know it's the truth? I am not a member, I have no stake in this other than my sense of what is right and wrong. From the moment I read kermits posts, I wondered how she had info that no one else did..and why now is she sharing it. It makes me suspicious of her motives and her intents.

Blah - you could very well be right.  It does look as though Kyle was pretty certain there were human remains in the cage though and I'd like to know why he's so certain.

Plus, I don't see most of the members here calling the crew of the Persistence liars and traitors.  We are questioning Kyle and why he seems so certain the trap was important and we are questioning the handling of the evidence found in the trap.

You say the information came from a "private forum" that you are not a member of but you KNOW where it came from and the circumstances!  ::MonkeyConfused::

This is the risk you take for joining a private forum.  Nothing is private.

I read what I read and then I make up my own mind.  I do not let people force me to believe their opinions because they believe they have inside information or they know someone and are in communication with someone.

My favorite line on SM that I have seen is this "TRUST ME I KNOW."  They can take those words have shove them because if I don't believe I'm not going to.

We are all in control of our own minds.

If their all talking about the private forum that I, kath, kermit and others were in it was a  very long time ago.
 I was not even a Monkey yet.
It also disappeared a long time ago too with all of our work.
 Some of us are still friends now and keep in touch .
This all has nothing to do with Kyle
Sorry just making a point.
 ::MonkeyWink::

I saw Kyle post why he did not want to discuss this on SM. Because kermit decided to share the info that was not intended to be shared, does not mean Kyle is going to. And frankly I respect that more than what kermit is doing. He posted to us daily while on the search. he answered everyone's questions. For that he is being slandered by kermit. I wouldn't come here and respond after that.

I don't know what's going on here, but it seems someone is breaking the "confidentiality agreement" or you wouldn't know where the info came from.

 ::MonkeyConfused::

And if that private forum has members in it who's only objective is to bring Beth and Natalee down then I am glad I am not a member of that forum.  HOW can a private forum make any difference in this if their members are the likes of Julie Renfro, Reality and so on and so forth.  I have to question their involvement in all of this before I would ever believe anything they said.

i will even open up my firewall for that.  ::MonkeyHaHa::
if my system gets attacked and i trace the intruder to a Government computer in Oranjestad i am going to file a complaint for cyber crime.  ::MonkeyRoll::

that MEP website just allows you to sign up and post blogs. i didn't have to do anything technical.
but i am sure they won't like it when they see it.  ::MonkeyCool::

Blonde  - no, they aren't talking about the NH.Net site they are talking about the Freebirds forum I think. 

Then either post YOUR opinion and back it up, or quit whining.

I saw it and I LIKE IT!  Will look forward to the comments.......

 ::MonkeyWink::

It is a risk San, I agree. But I still say that if the one person who decided to break the confidentiality of the group starts sharing that information, then I would question their motives and intent and that is what I am doing. How can we be sure we are getting the whole story when kermit is the only one who can pick and choose what she wants to share from what was discussed.

My whole point is I can't make an educated opinion, I don't have all of the facts and the facts that kermit is bringing over I can't trust knowing how she got them.

Blue Moon  - I don't think we are talking about the Bring Natalee Home forum where Renfro and Reality post with Robin Holloway, we are talking about the Freebird's forum.

BNH is a members only can read forum but you don't need to be invited to join.  It's my understanding that the Freebirds forum is invite only and I only became aware of it's existance within the last week.  So obviously it was determined I was not "good" enough to join.  ::MonkeyCool::

Sorry, I had not heard at all about this forum.  I just assumed it was BNH because you cannot read there unless you are a member. Sorry.

Well, Beth is a big girl.  If she saw something here she didn't want discussed, wouldn't she just call Red or Klaas? :smt102 :smt102 :smt102

You know what?  I'm sick of this bull crap.  I have a right as an American citizen to know what happened to another American citizen while over seas.  I have a right as a Mother to know what happened to this precious child.  I have a right as a person to know what happened to this precious child.  I don't care who the hell you are or where you come from.  If you know something then spill it or shut the heck up.  And at this point I don't care where the information comes from.

I want the truth.  So someone knows more than the rest of us?  Then I say what makes you so damn special. 

Do you seriously think anything we discuss on an open forum is going to prevent justice from being given to this precious child Natalee Holloway at this point?  After 3 1/3 years?  I seriously doubt it.

Private forum my ass.  Who decides who's special and who isn't.  I've set here for 3 1/2 lousy stinkin years praying for justice to come.

No I'm not a big contributor any more.  But many many nights I didn't sleep working on timelines and doing the best I could with what little knowledge I have of computers.  Yes the first time I heard someone say  to empty the cookies from my computer I thought WTH.  So no I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer about computers, but I have just as much right to know what is going on as anybody else.  I'm pissed.

So tell what you know or shut the hell up.

Sorry Klaas please don't fuss at me or I might start crying at this point.  I'm just so fed up.

And just so all ya'll know this is not pointed directly at any particular individual.  This is just my humble gosh darn fraskin opinion.

I will state one opinion I firmly believe. From what I have read from kermit's posts, as a result of the actions of the aruban authorities, Kyle walked away from that search with a lot of unanswered questions, just the same as us. He is not some culprit in a conspiracy to cover up the discovery of Natalee.

I am so lost so did Kermit take her information from a private forum that Kyle was  a member of or  just show his emails.
I'm not a member of any private forms just to clarify . ::MonkeyHaHa::

From Kyle:
I need to know what we know about Caps and Destiny. I need their names if possible.

From Kyle: THis is what I'm trying to figure out now. I need to know the leak! I believe Caps is only one step away from DirtyHand

From Kyle: We're close to finding the Dirty Hand and a major leak plaguing the investigation. I believe they're linked. I'm assuming Caps isn't deep inside ALE, but do we know that he isn't? We need to figure out who Cap's source is and what he does.
Can we confirm Destiny's source is a Dairio reporter? If so, do we know who this would be? Could it be Eduardo Mansur???

There is a group of them.


I was willing to take the risk and post the truth.
The MONKEYS can decide if it is me lying or not.

Kermit please spill it!

THIS IS MIND BOGGLING.  Who is Kyle to ask for someones personal info from an open forum?  That is scarey.

I'm thinking Kyle is choosing not to post a rebuttal.

Posted by Oceanexploration:

Kermit,

First, I have NEVER threatened you.  The only thing I said to you is that I do not want to be sued by releasing information into the public that I was specifically told by OUR FBI as confidential. When I'm told not to comment by our FBI, I listen. You clearly do not understand this.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4159.msg554523#msg554523

Helen - I don't speak directly with Beth but Red does.  How many people should the family be dealing with?  I decided 3 1/2 years ago to use Red as my messenger.

I've asked Red to find out what he can about the pics of the trap and what was found or not found.  I haven't heard anything back yet.

From Kyle: "If you want, you can get Red from SM off my back. I really don't like that guy."

come across........

Snoopy - I agree with you too!

 ::MonkeyHaHa::

Thanks, Klaas.  I wasn't sure if you spoke with Beth, but I know Red does.  That's why I feel that Red will put the kabash on anything that makes Beth uncomfortable, and that's why I like it here.

 ::MonkeyCool::

Tell me something I don't know, LOL  ::MonkeyHaHa::

I don't disagree at all Snoopy. My point is though, if you want to share the information, then share it. You don't have to make people who busted their azzes on that ship "bad guys" to do it. If this info was shared in the private forum, then Kyle apparently wasn't trying to "cover up" anything. So if kermit wants to share the photos and info, share it...but but in my mind she needed to justify her actions, and making Kyle a conspirator is not the way to do it.

Thank you San and Klaas.  That means alot to me.  You are both very special ladies.

 ::MonkeyHaHa::

If you aren't good enough to join, Klaas, then it can't be too special.

Snoopy, I'm right there beside you, holding your hand and trying not to cry!   ::MonkeyNoNo::

I wouldn't want Klaas to be a member there if what they are asking is for personal information about  people who belong to a public forum.  SM has more integrity than that.

TO ANSWER QUESTIONS REGARDING IF I GAVE A DOCUMENT OVER TO BE HANDED TO DAVE HOLLOWAY WHEN HE WAS IN ARUBA - THE ANSWER IS YES?
Friday, August 26, 2005 9:03 PM

From:
"(I edited)
To:
"kermit"... more
Hello everyone,

Bestbuddy from SM is going to be in Aruba 05/31 and
will hand-deliver some documents to the Holloways and
Twittys for us.


TO ANSWER THE QUESTION REGARDING HOTSHOT AND BESTBUDDY IN ARUBA

To:
"Kermit" <eidted>
BB paid for all of Kaths meals etc. Kath came up with her ticket and I think they paid the rest, hotel, etc.

Kyle has had three weeks to post his side - he hides. I have no respect for someone who hides pics, tries to sell them, lies about it, jerks everyone around, and says the family saw everything.

In my opinion, whatever Kyles side is, it cant be explained rationally or it would have been three weeks ago.

Look kermit...then post the truth!!!
The truth is..no one but the arubans really know what was found in that cage. Why do you have to bash Kyle to post the truth?

could be though that it is a no win situation for him and so he has chosen not to advance it.

No crying allowed.  ::MonkeyWink::

My question is if the pictures and information was SO SENSITIVE to the FBI why would Kyle post them on the INTERNET in the first place.  THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A PRIVATE FORUM.

aahhhh kermit...how is he trying to "get you" when he is not even responding to you? Only one I see making any attacks is you.

A. I have NOT said one personal bash against Kyle whatsoever. I have exposed the truth.
You have a right to choose to believe or not believe what you want.

B. Kyle stated: " The bags were removed just after the ROV got out of the way when the divers took the samples to their boat.... and took off. You have a right to choose to believe or not believe what you want.

But Kyle posted the "confidential" information in a "private forum"????

Rob, I'm guessing Kyle's comments here explain his silence.

Posted by Oceanexploration:

Kermit,

First, I have NEVER threatened you.  The only thing I said to you is that I do not want to be sued by releasing information into the public that I was specifically told by OUR FBI as confidential. When I'm told not to comment by our FBI, I listen. You clearly do not understand this.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4159.msg554523#msg554523

I know you are basing your information on ONLY what Kyle is allowing you to see.

Idstlou,
Consider this: I know more then he is telling you. In addition, I have proof.

Exactly my point.  THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A PRIVATE FORUM.  If you don't want something out in the open DO NOT POST IT ANYWHERE ON THE INTERNET.

You know what else gosh darn it?  Why does the Persistance search have to be so secretive?  That's crap right there.  It is what it is.  We were supposed to be informed step by step throughout the whole search.

If they found something then we should have been told about it right then and there.

Why does what was found in the trap or not have to be kept secret?  That's a bunch of crap.  There is no explanation that can be given to me that can change my mind.  Oooohhhh sent to the FBI well then I should shut my yap?  The FBI has no jurisdiction.

I want Natalee on Alabama soil. 

Aruba can make that happen

No Juctice for Natalee

No tourism for Aruba

I stand with all monkeys who share the truth as they know it.

Let the chips fall where they may

I stand with the girl

Lisa, this is not about winning or losing THIS IS ABOUT THE TRUTH - NO MATTER WHERE IT LEADS

If it was a private forum, how much was he trying to hide? How did kermit expose the "truth". It would have been kyle exposing the truth correct? kermit just brought it to SM. Her right to do so...but why bash the messenger in the process unless you are feeling guilty about your decision?

Kermit who are the Experts ?

Exactly.

It is how a person posts that makes me decided on what I believe.

I believe I can fly  ::MonkeyHaHa::

See now, that is a good question.  Thanks Johan  ::MonkeyWink::

Private Forum

Aruban Justice

open secret

larger half    

clearly confused

act naturally

found missing

liquid gas

deafening silence    

Microsoft Works    

jumbo shrimp

Advanced BASIC    

I'm going now to burn my journals......... ::MonkeyHaHa::

i have every day 1 good question  lol  ::MonkeyWink::
to the point !

Rob, I don't have a problem with the truth. I want it as bad as anyone else here. I am just saying, it appears to me that kermit was privy to some information that the rest of us did not have access to. She chose to bring it to SM. I am not saying that is bad!!! No one better to investigate than the Monkeys. It's here and it's being discussed. but kermit doesn't have to bash kyle in the process!! It appears kyle gave her access to that info to begim with!!

Bottom line...kermit did not not "uncover" some great big conspiracy, she brought over information that was being discussed elsewhere. lets call a spade a spade is all I am saying. No need to tear apart Kyle to do that.

Knowing the experts would help here.

He withheld evidence of a crime scene.

Well I believe you can too sweetheart.  You go girl and good luck with that.

 :P   :smt051    :2rofl: 

Rock On!!   :cool:

and darnit...my understanding from all that you posted is that Kyle walked away with some questions that were not answered for him by the aruban authorities...is that a fair question?

 ::MonkeyHaHa::   :smt052 :smt111

Show me one word where I bash Kyle?
ONE WORD?
You can't because I never said anything to bash Kyle.
You,however, have bashed me.

I did give the monkeys the information that was being kept from everyone.

It ain't easy being green

Agreed.

Please give it a rest.......You've made Your point....We have more important things to discuss without all of this hoopla....going on.....I mean this in the nicest way.....Seriously...... ::MonkeyWink::

and he was trying to noodle out some questions he had about what happened in Aruba in a forum that he felt safe to, with people he respected..is that also a fair question?

Sometimes it's important for things to be uncovered:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watergate_scandal

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran-Contra_affair

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewinsky_scandal

 ::MonkeyHaHa::

THATS MY VIEW AS WELL

This has been asked many times and I have yet to see an answer.  Maybe I missed it.

Withholding evidence in a crime is criminal.
I choose to expose the evidence.

It ain't easy being green

ldstlou - Johan asked who Kermit's experts were.  I'd like to know also.  You are turning Johan's simple but good question into something it's not.  Don't read more into the post than what is there.

Johan:  who are the experts
Klaasend:  that is a good question

and one more question, is it fair to say that the only people who KNOW what was in that crab trap are the aruban authorities who took the contents away? That the family doesn't "know", that Kyle doesn't "know", that you don't "know"..and that once again, aruba left us with more questions than answers? Is that a fair statement?

Hello Scandi,

I do not consider nor proport I am special.
I have, however, been involved in cases exposing criminals all the way to the White House.
Nothing special about me, just expose the truth.

I am not turning it into anything. I agree with his question and added another I would like answered.

It is like the college Beth found to investigate.. what a joke..They start from ZERO!
 When she already had All of us here who have been with her since day 1 and are better informed then most, as we have done the research. We have been witness to each event.
We have sliced and diced each and every word and action of others involved in this case.
We have also been through the cast of characters so many times I think I know them all personally..
There is no better group to Help Dave and Beth then this group of serious researchers who have been dedicated to helping them solve this case and help in bringing Natalee home. There is a liberal group and a conservative group and all member have good thoughts and direction.
I could name names of the few the proud and the valiant group on various Forums, but you know who they are as they are consistent in research.
 Establishing a elite group out of those, is a good idea and it also stops redundancy of the same questions being asked and answered a million times by people who only come to the forums once in a while to give there opinion when news happens.
I really do not care, just let us know if the Free Birds are the Elite Group, then I will go back to my hobbies and family life and good luck to Dave and Beth.
I know that I have given my all in time and money to help a lost American citizen over the last 3.7 years.. I am happy about that.

according to whom?

That makes you pretty special in my book too Kermit!   ::MonkeyCool::

Lisa,
If you are not a member of the private forum, why do
you care what Kermit tells?
Are you defending Kyle?  Seems he could defend himself.
Why do you object to Monkeys having this information?
I just don't see why you are in such a state that you
must try to make Kermit appear less than honorable.
Your rantings just don't make sense to me.

Kermit
Who are the criminals here?  I am still confused...

Please help me understand this...you claim Kyle withheld evidence in a criminal case?  Right?  Can he not be prosecuted for that?  Have you turned him to the FBI for doing this?

Thanks.

Well said Edward, and you stay right here buddy.  We're not done yet.

at this point, I could really care less what Kyle has to say - whatever it is - it will be contrived and I'm not interested in revisionist history.

I'm sure Rob won't mind my answering your question about withholding evidence of a crime as illegal.
It's a law in the United States of America.
Maybe not in Aruba I don't know.

did you read my post at all? There was no big discovery here. She copied and posted from a forum...duuuuh!!! Great detective work!!

And as far as I am concerned...we all knew that the aruban authories were the ones who collected the evidence. Where's the conspiracy? Once again...the arubans gathered the evidence. What they did with it after no one knows but the aruban authorites. We can only guess and speculate.

I'm throwing the BullShit flag on that one!

Perfect example for any monkeys that might not recognize it -

 - Obfuscation: confuse the facts

 - Circular logic/reasoning: "I don't believe what I say I believe"  "This can't be because I say this other thing can't be.

 - Strawman arguements: Set up a false arena of discussion (ie. doesn't even relate to the point), then argue both sides if necessary to keep it going.

These are just some of the known and studied methods of distraction/disinformation.  Google it.

Not saying it's intentional or not - just that its important to recognize.

JMO

here's the slander imho kermit...I asked you a question...WHO withheld information? Are you saying Kyle? If you are..I am calling bullshit!!! I asked Jug, he said no way. Many have asked you if you discussed this with Beth, I have yet to see a straight answer. So please...tell me...did you discuss with Beth your belief that Kyle withheld evidence..what was her response?

Once again, how do you know this?  I did not know this.

Lisa, according to ME.

But did they share?  Did they give the proper samples to the FBI? 

Kermit

Kyle stated that he was involved in the "sampling of the evidence".  Does that mean he actually physically seen the evidence or that he viewed it from the ROV monitor because in another statement it was said that the Aruban divers had their own boat.

Could you clarify this for us if you can since Kyle won't come back and answer some legitimate questions.

TIA

I know that you are not confused, with all due respect, however, because I am on the hotseat by your group, I'll post it again:

From Kyle: I have not given anything to the FBI since the pictures and statements from Dec 29th

Explanation: Kyle gave the 6 photos that were posted on the Internet at BNH and leaked to SM, at which time Kyle accused Red of doing something wrong.

Kermit can you tell us who the experts are?  johann asked earlier.

I have a thought on all of this and it's contrary to what most feel.  JMO based on what I have been reading here....

Due to jurisdiction and cover-up issues, I'm assuming the FBI was not "invited" to participate in this water search and Kyle knew this.  Kyle had his suspicions of corruption within the ALE himself.  He covertly took pictures of the evidence within the trap with the ROV in the event of a cover-up.

At some point he must have been invited to this "private site", the Freebirds, I guess, which he thought was a confidential place to discuss information.  He shared his suspicions of the pictures with people there he came to trust who knew more about the history of this case than he did.  He was trying to put the pictures in perspective to figure out what his next move would be.  Until he came to a conclusion, he didn't share the pics with the family or the FBI.

With regard to a so called documentary, maybe they thought it was their only alternative to reveal what was found in the trap.  It might be the only way to bring evidence forward without the authorities involved, just like DeVries did.  The FBI couldn't get involved; they weren't invited so any information coming through them couldn't be used.   Klye couldn't go through the ALE, they covered up the evidence.  I can't imagine his frustration at this point.

It saddens me to read his trust was broken, especially among people he felt he could trust enough to share this information with.  Was it the right thing to do, obviously not.  Kyle is young and has many life's lessons to learn, this being one of them. 
 
My hope is that putting Kyle's information on an open forum hasn't hurt the case in anyway.   

We need to remain focused and stop the infighting.  We are all here for the same purpose.....to find answers for Natalee and her family.

Kermit, it appears to me that Kyle staed he did not turn over any info to the FBI after a certain date. Was he withholding info? Can you just answer that yes or no. Did you discuss this with Beth? Is she in agreement with you?

One more question. The info you are bringing to SM that was uncovered by you. Were others aware of this info? Do THEY agree that Kyle withheld info from the FBI?

I wasn't aware of the Aruban authorities hiring the Persistence to search for Natalee, or of any funding that the Aruban authorities provided for this search for Natalee.  If the Persistence mission was only intended to provide every find from the mission to the Aruban authorities, we should have all been aware of that!  We should not have been ASKED what they should do with what they found!  They obviously didn't care what our responses were to that question, because if they indeed let them leave with every bit of evidence from that cage; that was the intent from the beginning.  If it wasn't what made them decide that was the RIGHT thing to do?  Free meals and drinks at Hooters, free lodging?  I want to know what made them decide to trust giving ALL of the evidence to the Aruban authorities!  I still hope I find out they didn't, when and if anyone decides we might have some kind of right to know this!

A question for ldstlou:

Since you are not a member of this private forum, how you know that this is where the info/pictures are from?

Give us a straight answer and at least back up something you are saying.

TIA

Most likely why he doesn't

Is this group Natalee's Freebirds?  Is Kyle a member of that group?  Lala's are you a member of that group?  Thanks.

YEP

You know what, when I agree not to share information that people have asked me not to share, I don't.

Why don't you ask Kermit where she got them? She knows.

Hi Snoopy,

It is my understanding that according to Kyle, ONLY the ARUBAN divers took the evidence from the trap and they dove from their boat and returned to their boat with that evidence. No one on board the Persistence had that evidence that we can clearly see in the plastic bags. Kyle's expertise stated that it looked like blue denim in one of the bags and that it clearly moved with the current, indicating that it was material.

Pita - I would agree with you that Kyle is young and has many life's lessons to learn if he hadn't been warned in the VERY BEGINNING.

Kyle is highly intelligent but if he's that naive then he has NO BUSINESS dealing with sensitive information because he has NO CLUE.

Hmmmm. Good and Happy Afternoon, Monkeys!  ::MonkeyTongue::

Even if some of us have to be dragged into the fold, we're doing a group hug, dammit!

(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c100/crazybabyborgs/express/grouphug-1.gif)

 ::MonkeyCool::

That's a bullshit answer.  It's his fault.  Live and learn.

fixed my post, my apologizes.



Yes I do know.

And I will not be a part of a cover-up, withholding of evidence illegally, or lying as a witness.

Do you think the crew of the Persistence had any say in that? They were in aruban waters. arubans were calling the shots. Do you remember how many times Tim Miller wanted to go back and search and they said no. Could it be that it was out of their hands?

Then why don't you answer the questions?

Who were the experts?
Where did you get the photos and the posts?

Were others privy to the posts and pics?
Did you discuss the fact that you thought Kyle was withholding info with Beth?
Does beth agree with you?

Well, you should apologize to that group, because they must now know someone else is spilling their secrets to you.

I'll repeat myself here:

- Obfuscation: confuse the facts

 - Circular logic/reasoning: "I don't believe what I say I believe"  "This can't be because I say this other thing can't be.

 - Strawman arguements: Set up a false arena of discussion (ie. doesn't even relate to the point), then argue both sides if necessary to keep it going.

These are just some of the known and studied methods of distraction/disinformation.  Google it.

Not saying it's intentional or not - just that its important to recognize.

JMO

When you have serious questions concerning something the FBI is or should be involved in you DO NOT take that info to a private forum and ask "What should I do with this?".  I am guessing someone on that boat informed him to butt out and never bring the subject up again.

WHAT is his fault?

Kermit is a she ?  ::MonkeyConfused::

Does Miss Piggy Know ?  ::MonkeyHaHa::

withholding of evidence of a crime is illegal, intentionally trying to sell the photos for personal gain is a crime, I think, maybe the frog is wrong.  ::MonkeyConfused::


From Kyle: "I have not given anything to the FBI since the pictures and statements from Dec 29th"

Kyle: "From Kyle: May 8, 2008: "I've talked with Peter Shouten numerous times back in February. He hasn't seen anything but knows about the blue fabrics. DeVries and Endemol was interested in purchasing the ROV footage and I was working between them, ABC, and CBS to strike a deal."

How else does one go undercover Mister Dana?
 ::MonkeyCool::

ok...but isn't that what kermit has been doing. Bring serious questions she has concerning something the FBI should be involved in to SM.

If she really was concerned...should SHE have kept it quiet and gone to the family and the FBI instead of SM?

 ::MonkeyShocked:: ::MonkeyWink::

Read much here Dana?   ::MonkeyLaugh:: ::MonkeyLaugh::

If Kyle posted or shared information or photos that was sensitive to the case, sensitive enough that he's being warned by the FBI not to discuss it further, then it is HIS FAULT for being stupid and sharing the information in the first place.

bump

It seems to me that if Kyle had put those images on a
public forum in the beginning, the Arubans would have
had to account for the evidence before they could dispose
of it.
He gave them plenty of time to cover it up.

sure do, i was trying to bring a little humor into a tense situation ::MonkeyTongue::

but it's ok for kermit to bring the same info here.

Tim Miller KNEW the Aruban authorities could not be trusted with ALL of the evidence.  Seems to me that's part of WHY he was considered a liability on that boat.  To answer your question, HELL YES, the Persistence crew had a say in the matter; the fact that Tim Miller was not on board when the evidence was collected says it all!  JMO, from the information I have.

Hi Dana! Grab some popcorn and we'll be the comic relief!  ::MonkeyWink::

(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c100/crazybabyborgs/kittycorn.gif)

Please don't call it rantings. yes I am defending Kyle.
I am saying if kermit whats to bring the info here to SM...so be it, but tell the truth about it, the whole truth.

I agree with you San. 

Kyle was warned !!! many times, RIGHT HERE!!

I highhandedly exposed the Aruba Cover-up!
You are trying to turn it into Kyle has been bashed!
common sense goes a long ways.

Kermit I asked this:

who are experts

would you prefer not to answer?

What truth are you missing?

Put up or shut up.

Come here to defend himself or shut up about what he did.  He opened his mouth now live with it.

who are the experts    ::MonkeyWink::

one more time. If this is about the truth, then why do you keep skipping these questions kermit? Just copy, paste and highlight your answers.

Then why don't you answer the questions?

Who were the experts?
Where did you get the photos and the posts?

Were others privy to the posts and pics?
Did you discuss the fact that you thought Kyle was withholding info with Beth?
Does beth agree with you?

After all we have known, and what we have seen and now the admission about van der Stratten, tell me one little reason that anyone should believe that the contents taken by the Aruban divers were shared honestly with the FBI. I wouldn't believe it. I am sure that is what we are expected to believe.

San, that is totally uncalled for. I have explained in detail, without bashing anyone, my concerns with what Kermit is doing.

Yes, Please.  When asked if it was Natalee's remains in the cage, Kermit, you responded that according to the experts, it was.

Who are the experts?

Sorry johann I was trying my best to answer the other questions from way back and still can't get to them.
BUT to answer YOUR question, at this time, the FBI does have the information as well as Beth and Dave and John Q. Kelly.

I don't think anyone believes that..including Kyle..and that was most likely his reason for discussing what he learned in the forum where kermit is getting his posts.

Good I am glad you posted this, it just goes to show how much you DON'T know.  You sent that with BestBuddy, not me.  Dave was on a hunting trip when I was in Aruba, but I guess you already know that,...."you know everything".  That was Bestbuddies first trip to Aruba, and obviously I wasn't there.  I went in Jan of 2006.......So, stop putting the blame on me....  And for you to spew the details of who paid and who didnt was a very insecure person.  You are out for one thing, and one thing only, and that is yourself.

All I know is there was remains in the cage. The Aruban's took the evidence. IF the ROV unit was not filming, we'd never have known and Kyle captured the screenshots that were posted at SM which he did not hand over to the FBI when he returned to the U.S.

what? Thats your answer?

You are welcome.