Scared Monkeys Discussion Forum

 ::MonkeyEek:: hello?

 ::MonkeyCool::  Where are the others?

 :shock: :2thinky: :2saywhaa:

caesu said :

i am trying to find this out. was it Theresa Croes-Fernandes already? or a Dutch PG?

it is important because the PG has a VERY important role when conflicts of interest (within the ALE) are at play during an investigation.
the fact that Paul van der Sloot was Chief of Cabinet for the PG before 2003 shows how close Van der Sloot was to the PG.
that is the highest position in the office of the PG.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Here is a letter >  Croes was in Holland  till 6 june

(http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh25/johan555/36335e76.jpg)

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Quote from: SS on Today at 11:44:32 AM
I have had a lingering thought about Urine's admission that he sold Natalee for $10K.  In my business, I have worked with numerous sociopaths over the years and I have learned that there is usually some element of truth in their twisted stories.  I am wondering if Urine and his friends and/or Paulass have been involved with selling victims or if Urine knows that his father has been involved with human trafficking.  This might not have been Natalee's fate, but perhaps this could have been the fate of other victims that Urine is aware of and/or has been involved with.  This could very easily be the hook that Urine has to his father and other adults on Aruba.  I suspect that Urine's performance with Greta was a message to the "higher powers" that he wants more money and that he is prepared to drop the dime on all of them.  I don't think that Urine's story about handing the blonde girl over for a bag with $9600 has anything to do with Natalee directly.  There is something about the amount of money being short several hundred dollars that sticks out.  Did Urine get a hush money check that was less than the agreed amount?

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SS,

I have not ruled out the possibility that Joran did sell Natalee.  And, I do believe it is possible that she may not have been the first one.  She may just have been the first American girl he was involved with trafficking.

We have seen that Joran is heavily addicted to gambling.  He has stolen from people since he left Aruba.  While in Aruba he seemed to have money to gamble with, yet no job to fall back on to earn his gambling money. 

Joran stated in his last interview that he knew "this man' from the Radisson.  The evening of 5/30 Joran is out gambling in and around the Radisson.  Where did he get the money?  If you had just murdered someone, why would you be out and about...when you have the excuse that it is a school night...instead of keeping a low profile.  Do we really think this 17 year old kid who was smart enough to get rid of a dead body would be stupid enough to be seen out and about the very next night?

Paulus stated that Joran had his gym bag with him when he dropped him off at the racquet club the afternoon of 5/30.  I believe it has been confirmed that Joran did not play tennis that afternoon.   Was this a bag of money?  And that he met several friends there.  One of which says his phone was stolen that very day.  Hmm.  I doubt anyone checked the cell calls to and from that number on 5/30.

Or, a case could be made for the scenario that Joran was heavily in debt to one of the casinos...could the trafficking of an American blonde clear his debt?  And with all the publicity he thinks he can blackmail these people when he gets low on cash by telling the media what he did with enough of a twist that will implicate his own father's activity in the coverup. 

I can't figure out if the guy is brilliant or stupid.

Yesterday we came to the conclusion that Remkes probably is the guy who asked / ordered the Arubans in 2005 to present Jurine van der Sloot as being an Aruban. Remkes was the Dutch minister of Internal / Home Affairs and Kingdomrelations then.

This week he voted against bringing in the Rijksrecherche to investigate all the wrongdoings in the Natalee Holloway investigation. He was rather cynical about the alligations that Croes made about VdStraten last week; he said that he didn't think of Croes as very trustworthy.

He's not a member of the government anymore; he now is a member of Parliament for the liberal conservative VVD as the VanderSloots are. But he still is an influencial guy and still has a lot of authority in the Home and Dutch Antilles affairs.

Today I sent an email to Johan Remkes (see previous thread).

For anyone who wants to email Johan Remkes as well here's his emailaddress: j.remkes@tweedekamer.nl

With that information, Remkes is as good as good a conclusion as any.  In fact, that information makes it very likely that he is the one.  imo  It will be interesting to watch this play out.

Originally copied, but not translated, from another site.

Just a place to record PVDS history....for caesu and all:


looking for van der sloot's appointment
Origineel persbericht.

Ministerie van Binnenlandse Zaken en Koninkrijksrelaties
Persbericht ministerraad van het Koninkrijk
25 februari 2005


BENOEMING GEMEENSCHAPPELIJK HOF VAN JUSTITIE NEDERLANDSE ANTILLEN EN ARUBA

De Rijksministerraad heeft er op voorstel van minister De Graaf voor Bestuurlijke Vernieuwing en Koninkrijksrelaties mee ingestemd om de heer mr. H.A.C. Smid en de heer mr. F.J.F. Gerard voor te dragen voor benoeming als leden van het Gemeenschappelijk Hof van Justitie van de Nederlandse Antillen en Aruba.

De heer Smid (1946) is momenteel rechter bij de arrondissementsrechtbank in Dordrecht. Daarvoor was hij Landelijk Officier van Justitie voor het Meldpunt Ongebruikelijke Transacties. Zijn standplaats wordt Curaçao.

De heer Gerard (1961) is momenteel rechter bij de rechtbank in Arnhem. Daarvoor was hij senior-jurist bij het ministerie van Defensie. Zijn standplaats wordt Aruba.

De benoemingen gaan in op 1 maart 2005.

RVD, 25.02.2005

Nieuwe rechters bij Gemeenschappelijk Hof van Justitie Nederlandse Antillen en Aruba
19 juli 2002

De Rijksministerraad heeft er op voorstel van staatssecretaris De Vries van Binnenlandse Zaken en Koninkrijksrelaties mee ingestemd vijf rechters bij het Gemeenschappelijk Hof van Justitie van de Nederlandse Antillen en Aruba voor te dragen voor benoeming.

Het zijn:
- mr. F.M. Wieland, vice-president van de arrondissementsrechtbank in Groningen;
- mr. C. van den Noort, rechter aan de arrondissementsrechtbank in Groningen;
- mr. P.A.H. Lemaire, rechter aan de arrondissementsrechtbank in Arnhem;
- mr. R. Hoekstra, rechter aan de arrondissementsrechtbank in Rotterdam;
- mr. W.P.M. ter Berg, vice-president van de arrondissementsrechtbank in Middelburg.

Daarnaast draagt de Rijksministerraad mr. P.W. van Schendel voor als plaatsvervangend rechter bij het Hof. Hij treedt binnenkort terug als vice-president van de arrondissementsrechtbank in Utrecht. Alle benoemingen gaan in op 1 augustus a.s., behalve de benoeming van mr. Ter Berg die ingaat op 1 oktober a.s.

Benoemingen gemeenschappelijk hof van justitie Nederlandse Antillen en Aruba
1 juni 2001

De Rijksministerraad heeft er op voorstel van staatssecretaris De Vries van Binnenlandse Zaken en Koninkrijksrelaties mee ingestemd om vier leden voor te dragen voor benoeming tot lid van het Gemeenschappelijk Hof van Justitie van de Nederlandse Antillen en Aruba.


De vier leden zijn:


mr. W.M.J. Hoppers, vice-president van het gerechtshof in 's-Hertogenbosch;
mr. D. van den Brink, rechter aan het gerechtshof in Rotterdam;
mr. C. Slothouber, vice-president van het gerechtshof in Utrecht;
mr. H. Warnink, coördinerend vice-president van het gerechtshof in Alkmaar.
De benoemingen gaan in per 1 augustus aanstaande, behalve de benoeming van de heer Warnink die ingaat per 1 oktober aanstaande. De heer Slothouber krijgt als standplaats Aruba, de andere drie rechters gaan op Curaçao werken.

Benoemingen rechterlijke macht Aruba en Antillen
27 juni 2005

De Rijksministerraad heeft er op voorstel van minister Pechtold voor Bestuurlijke Vernieuwing en Koninkrijksrelaties mee ingestemd om acht leden en één plaatsvervangend lid voor te dragen voor (her)benoeming in het Gemeenschappelijk Hof van Justitie van de Nederlandse Antillen en Aruba.

Het gaat om de benoeming op de standplaats Curaçao per 1 augustus 2005 van mr. J.M.P. Drijkoningen (raadsheer in het Gerechtshof te 's-Hertogenbosch), mr. K.J. Haarhuis (rechter in de rechtbank te Almelo), mw. mr. A.M.P. Geelhoed (rechter in de rechtbank Middelburg), mw. mr. L. de Kerpel-van de Poel (rechter in de rechtbank Maastricht), mw. mr. A.S. Gratama (rechter in de rechtbank Breda) en, per 1 september 2005, van mr. H.L. Wattel (rechter in de rechtbank Breda).

Voor de standplaats Aruba per 1 augustus 2005 gaat het om mr. H.E. de Boer (raadsheer in het Gerechtshof Arnhem) en mr. J.A. van Voorthuizen (rechter in de rechtbank Zwolle).

Mr. P. W. van Schendel zal per 1 augustus 2005 in Curaçao worden herbenoemd als plaatsvervangend lid in het Gemeenschappelijk Hof van Justitie, voor de duur van drie jaar.

De Rijksministerraad heeft tevens ingestemd met de voordracht voor benoeming van mr. N. Jörg tot advocaat-generaal van Aruba. De heer Jörg is sinds 1 februari advocaat-generaal bij de Hoge Raad der Nederlanden.

 

 
Ministerie van Algemene Zaken
Ministerie van Binnenlandse Zaken en Koninkrijksrelaties
Persbericht Rijksministerraad 20 december 2002

Benoemingen gemeenschappelijk hof van justitie van de nederlandse Antillen en aruba

De Rijksministerraad heeft op voorstel van minister Remkes van Binnenlandse Zaken en Koninkrijksrelaties ingestemd met een tweetal benoemingen.

De heer mr. G.E.M. Polkamp (52) wordt voorgedragen voor benoeming tot lid van het Gemeenschappelijk Hof van Justitie van de Nederlandse Antillen en Aruba. Momenteel is de heer Polkamp plaatsvervangend lid van het Hof. De benoeming gaat in op 1 januari 2003.

De heer mr. P.A.P.J. van der Sloot (50) wordt voorgedragen voor benoeming tot plaatsvervangend lid van het Gemeenschappelijk Hof van Justitie van de Nederlandse Antillen en Aruba. De heer van der Sloot is nu werkzaam als kabinetschef bij de procureur-generaal van Aruba. De benoeming gaat in op
1 januari 2003 voor een periode van drie jaar.

RVD, 20.12.2002

http://www.nieuwsbank.nl/inp/2002/12/20/R280.htm



Benoeming procureur-generaal op Aruba
25 januari 2002

De Rijksministerraad heeft er op voorstel van staatssecretaris De Vries van Binnenlandse Zaken en Koninkrijksrelaties mee ingestemd om mevrouw mr. Drs. T.D. Croes-Fernandes Pedra voor te dragen voor benoeming tot procureur-generaal op Aruba.

Zij is op dit moment senior rechter en fungerend president bij het Gemeenschappelijk Hof van Justitie van de Nederlandse Antillen en Aruba. Mevrouw Croes volgt als procureur-generaal mr. W.R. Rosingh op. De benoeming gaat in op 1 februari a.s.

 :smt102 :smt102

The motto of your email could be: "Remkes, you can bring Natalee home!"

Thanks EuRobert...I am still looking at Paulus' bosses before 2002. Looks like Ruud Rosingh.  What about the Dutch golden boy Zwinkels? Was he the one before Rosingh? Thanks!

I just want to know how Paulus got to have so much clout!

Vocking......Caps posted in Shango 3....Full name, birthdate, place of birth and IIRC address of both Vocking and his wife. This was April 2008.

Caps posted Vocking...Not King

500 Aruban Guilders

ss writes: "...a bag with $9600..."

The difference between the goon's $10,000.00 statement to Greta, and what he actually said he received ("a couple hundred short") is close to the amount of money (cash) Paulus says he deposited at the CMB bank the next day.  500 Aruban Guilders is equal to about $275.00.

.

Sorry, can't help you with that.
My knowledge of all the Aruban Sloot connections is very ... well, absent actually...  ::MonkeyNoNo::

Aruba
Two years in jail for Omar Hirschfeld
13 Dec, 2008, 14:38 (GMT -04:00)



ORANGE CITY - Omar Hirschfeld, ex-jailer at the Institute Korrektie Aruba, was approved by the court to two years in prison sentenced, in accordance with the requirements of the Public Prosecutor. Hirschfeld must now 'behind bars' with the prisoners for whom he has drugs and smuggled mobile phones.

Hirschfeld was clearly not agree with this view and said that he appeals against it. The ex-jailer has occurred during the handling of this case defended by saying that in this case is a conspiracy against him, that the prisoners a "set-up 'against him have planned.
In his opinion, the court has stated that he does not believe, because the prisoners have extensively explained that Hirschfeld is indeed illegal goods is smuggled into the prison, and how he did this. It goes according to the court are a serious matter, because Hirschfeld in his role as jailer the everyday functioning of the KIA has put in danger and therefore the integrity of the corrective Institute has stained. Furthermore, the court placed considerable emphasis on the fact that Hirschfeld, because of this corruption, it does not deserve to serving the Aruban government to work. Also, the court recalled that the culprit is two kilos of marijuana in his home have been found during a search.
In addition to a prison two years, may Hirschfeld after serving his sentence of three years for public works.

A little truth mixed in with the lies?  Coincidence?  Hmmm...

Here is something I find interesting from the CIA report on human trafficking:

Children tend to be trafficked within their own countries,
while women between the ages of 18 and 30 are often trafficked internationally,
sometimes with the consent of their husbands or other family members. Major
source and recruitment countries include Brazil, Colombia, the Dominican Republic,
Uruguay, Venezuela, and Suriname. Spain, Germany, the Netherlands, Portugal, and
the United States are commonly identified as countries of destination for Latin
American trafficking victims.

Argentina and Brazil have also served as destination countries for women trafficked from the Andes or Caribbean countries

http://74.6.239.67/search/cache?ei=UTF-8&p=%22human+trafficking%22+cia+caribbean&fr=yfp-t-501&u=www.ilw.com/immigdaily/news/2007%2C1009-crs.pdf&w=%22human+trafficking%22+cia+caribbean&d=QynD-EfiR8S4&icp=1&.intl=us

Remkes talking in September 2006 about the KLPD taking over the investigation.
http://cgi.omroep.nl/cgi-bin/streams?/rnw/smac/2004/car_remkes_op_aruba_20060902.wma (in Dutch) (Windows Media Player)

http://antilliaans.caribiana.nl/aruba/car20060209_remkes.html

he met with Oduber in Oranjestad. Croes was not there. there was speculation of 'friction' between Remkes and Croes.
http://scaredmonkeys.com/2006/09/06/no-friction-between-croes-and-remkes-all-is-well-in-aruban-paradise/

http://www.minbzk.nl/actueel/nieuws--en/99463/minister_remkes

Aruba asked for Dutch help in the investigation.
pre-condition of Remkes was that the KLPD (Dutch National Police) was in full charge of the investigation.
Remkes as Interior / Home Affairs Minister was Manager of the KLPD.

Was Paulus in charge of contracts on Aruba when Posner got
his casino contract?

Caps posted this, and I assumed he was looking at a current database, otherwise he would have had to look at one before mid 2005, according to what Marriane Croes stated about Vocking changing his name. IIRC that was from December 2005.


Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #3
« Reply #823 on: April 24, 2008, 02:03:34 PM »
Quote Caps

ok
now we are talking

Vocking   Bernardus FC               1/14/1948   Nijmegen   De La Sallestraat 14
Vocking, geb. de Droog   Anna MJ   6/3/1959             Amsterdam   De La Sallestraat 14

The man and the wife.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2787.820

Paul Van der Sloot Background

Thanks to Hasibokus for this translation of a recent Dutch article on Paul(us) Van der Sloot. It's interesting background reading on the man just released while his son remains in custody.

My headline for the article wouldn't have been quite so glowing. There appears to be more than a hint of self interest in his biggest claim to fame and no mention of his potential judgeship having been de-railed prior to the Natalee Holloway case based upon performance evaluations - according to Fox.

Van der Sloot, persistent lawyer with principles

The lawyer Paul van der Sloot, that is detained in Aruba in the Natalee Holloway affair is here mostly known for his 20-year fight against the building of a motorway around Boxtel.

Boxtel

Paul van der Sloot is indeed member of a brass band and he goes all out during the carnival, but in Aruba he is mostly known as the serious lawyer for whom the principles of justice always and everywhere comes in first place. 

There was a huge disbelief in Aruba when he was arrested for his alleged involvement in disappearance of Natalee Holloway. Boxtel had experienced him as someone who would always persevere and had a thorough manner of working. 

Paul van der Sloot fought twenty years long (from 1973 until 1993) with local residents against the construction of a southern motorway, that had to be build partly over the estate of the Van der Sloot family. Paul van der Sloot stood his ground and fought civil servants and politicians that had proposed and produced the faulty plans for the new motorway in the Cousil of State. The motorway came eventually but it was not laid through the scenic valuable territory anymore but further away. 

In his birthplace Boxtel, van der Sloot was criticized a lot because while he was fighting the developments of the new motorway,  the dangerous traffic was still led trough Boxel and this was causing accidents and consequently was costing the lives of many people.  Van der Sloot was seen as a fault-finder that to prevent the motorway from being build on part of his land, was willing to sacrifice the lives of the youth who attended the schools in the vicinity of the local dangerous streets. Van der Sloot said later on that the criticism hurt him deeply.

Tilburg

Van der Sloot (53) got his legal education at the University of Tilburg in the seventies. He co-founded the Legal Faculty Association Tilburg and also the faculty newspaper ‘Nondejure'. After he finished his studies he did not went to work for the government, but assisted citizens that had conflicts with the government.  It was in that period in Arnhem, where he met a woman Anita (teacher of Artistic Formation) and it was also there were Joran and Valentijn, two of his three suns, were born.

New job

In 1991 Paul van der Sloot thought it was the time for a new job and he found one in Aruba where he was appointed for five year as a lawyer for the Aruban government. The ministers there were not impressed with his stance  „I always first try to find a compromise. By simply prosecuting nobody gets wiser.  If the authorities do something wrong I will always admit that. You must never interpret the facts differently then what they are.  I am convinced that on the long run this will give better results“, According to Van der Sloot in an interview ten years ago in the Brabants Dagblad. 

After a while Van der Sloot got a different assigment: the government wanted him to only set up contracts. Van der Sloot considered going back to The Netherlands, but he liked the small scale of Aruba and as it appeared he had enough possibilities to continue with his career.  He became cabinets leader for the public ministry and gave classes of Administrative Law at the local university. 

Judge

Two years ago Van der Sloot Ditch got the opportunity to become a judge.  With his background that meant that he had follow a training course of three years.  During that training period, he was appointed as a substitute judge in the Antillean court.  Van der Sloot completed the training period of a year in the Netherlands recently but he has not conducted a court(hearing) yet.


Monday, June 27, 2005 at 11:23 AM in Natalee Holloway | Permalink

http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2005/06/paul_van_der_sl_1.html

Not sure, Magnolia. I have been trying to figure out what he did and when.

The Casino is under Posner's son's name...On my other computer, so I would have to track down the date of that...will look for it.

Yes!!!

Mabye Remkes could bring Natalee home if he would investigate what were the contents of the cage/trap which the Persistence discovered and ... John Silvetti turned over to the enemy in exchange for his self-serving interests.

However ... when you consider that the Dutch (Remkes) was put in charge by Rudy Croes of investigating the Natalee Holloway case investigation back in August, 2005 and the endeavor came naught and ... when you consider the conflict of interest regarding a Paulus van der Sloot connection ... maybe the ball is in Kyle Kingman's court in regards to the possibility of bringing an eighteen year old American citizen home.

Dave Holloway, Beth Holloway, the FBI and John Kelly have recently come into possession of the ROV images through those who have upheld the family since day one in their contention that a corrupt investigation has denied their beloved Natalee justice but ... Kyle's testimony regarding his conerns about the John Silvetti/ALE connection would be the icing on the cake.

Janet

______


KYLE KINGMAN'S POSTS TO A PRIVATE FORUM

Kyle: I have not given anything to the FBI since the pictures and statements from Dec 29th

Kyle: None of us gave any statements to the authorities after the 29th. It's possible John Silvetti did, because he was the only one conversing with them after Jan 7th.

Kyle: I've talked with Peter Shouten numerous times back in February. He hasn't seen anything but knows about the blue fabrics. DeVries and Endemol was interested in purchasing the ROV footage and I was working between them, ABC, and CBS to strike a deal.

Kyle: In case it isn't clear.. notice the blue denim-like fabric

Kyle: The Aruban divers were on the police boat, dove from their boat, and returned to their boat.

Kyle: They were immediately whisked away by the Aruban police and not seen of again by us on the 7th

Kyle: John stood back and waited and worked with the Aruban Polis

Kyle: John definitely believed the Arubans at their every word

Kyle: John didn't want Tim Miller on board the Persistence because he said Tim wasn't necessary any more and was a liability

Kyle: John told me then he didn't want to hear me ever mention the trap again.

Kyle: Schafer is sue crazy.

Kyle: I did not feel the same and we had a major difference in opinion. He [John Silvetti] was the one who never pressed ALE to be completely open with us with the trap evidence. I would have forced them to. However, John was the one paying my invoices so I was forced to sit back and hope for the best.

Kyle: We all know it wasn't a blouse, but I believe they were sent some piece of fabric other than the fabric found inside the trap.

Kyle: We're being fed misinformation to keep us searching and out of their way while they cover their asses, destroy evidence, cover their tracks, and keep us out at sea and away from the trap.

Kyle: I've talked with Peter Shouten numerous times back in February. He hasn't seen anything but knows about the blue fabrics. DeVries and Endemol was interested in purchasing the ROV footage and I was working between them, ABC, and CBS to strike a deal.

Kyle: Louis is currently working with someone who I do not know to put together some documentary on the case, the way it was handled, and what happened during the search. I learned this from Tim T. yesterday. Louis was sold on the idea that it will make him a lot of money.

Kyle: The portion of the discolored blue fabric was presumably on the bottom of the fabric. In my opinion this discoloration is not another type of fabric, but rather biological staining or discoloration from biological growth caused from a high organic carbon content and decay. Basically, during decay a biological mat will form around the organics from remains. This is what I believe it is on the bottom of the fabric.

Kyle: John Silvetti told me today that he may be returning to Aruba very soon for a few days.

Kyle: I couldn't get the logs from the Persistence. All things "Holloway" were stripped from the boat once it got back to Louisiana

Kyle: He's [John Silvetti] seriously making plans to open an Aruba office so he can conduct business easier in S. America and that would allow him to do that.

Kyle: It was confirmed by the FBI that they received a fabric sample send by Richardson and that it wasn't a match to Natalee's blouse. I think the video can prove or disprove whatever the FBI was sent was the same object or not. I strongly believe it's blue denim. Everyone I show thinks the same thing without being prompted (including senior ABC execs).

Kyle: John is not a believer in the trap. He took ALE's word as gospel that it wasn't case related, yet never studied the videos or bothered to inquire further.

Klye: We're being fed misinformation to keep us searching and out of their way while they cover their asses, destroy evidence, cover their tracks, and keep us out at sea and away from the trap.

Kyle: neither Dave, Robin, or Beth has seen any of the ROV footage aside from what was broadcasted on Dateline or the pictures leaked from the FBI to Dave (and Robin H.). Beth has seen nothing in my knowledge.

Kyle: John is not a believer in the trap. He took ALE's word as gospel that it wasn't case related, yet never studied the videos or bothered to inquire further. He had plans on doing business with Aruba and in S. America and he didn't want to hurt any feelings by talks hinting at lack of complete trust and friendship.

Kyle: Notice the end of the skirt is an identical match to the 90 degree angle in the sand. I believe her left arm was outstretched with her legs slightly bent. I did not edit the legs. I believe the tarp was placed over her and tucked around her, or perhaps tied down. I believe there are several rocks laying on the sand which were placed on the tarp, or inside the tarp over her body which explains their unusual location. Either way, the proportions appear promising.

Kyle: I took the proportions of the body form from the head, to shoulder, to a 90 degree angle which I believed to be the hem line of Natalee's skirt. I then took those proportions and matched them to the photo of Natalee with what she was last seen wearing. The proportions matched within an inch from head, to shoulder, to skirt line. Based on this comparison and with what we believed we saw in the Dec 29th video, Tim Miller contacted the family and told them the 99.9% comment. I told Tim not to do anything until we have forensic results back after the site is processed. Jan 7th we sampled the contents and in my opinion we found the skirt under the sand along with the other items The blue fabric was found right where the skirt is pictured. If it isn't her, it will forever haunt me as a major cosmic WTF.

kyle: Richardson was onboard the Persistence several times and attended the meetings on the boat. You may see a glimpse of him on the Dateline video in the survey room along with Mos standing over my shoulder
 
 
KYLE KINGMAN'S POSTS TO THE SCARED MONKEYS FORUM

oceanexploration: "Thought you all may find this interesting if you're willing to accept it-To date, the Aruban police and dive team has been a tremendous help.  They've honestly done a great job. Over the last month we've established a very good working relationship based on openness and trust.  Most of the relationship success was due to getting the media out of the way and working together shoulder to shoulder over time.  We've helped each other however and whenever we can.  They've treated us with decency and respect and we have treated them as friends and allies, which they are. Most of the police and divers are new since this case started and both eager and careful to do things right.  I wish we had a month ahead of the project just to establish the relationships and trust. I know many of you would likely doubt this view, but it's based on the experiences in the field of the entire search team. I too was extremely worried, paranoid, and suspecting in the beginning.  Now, it's clear we're all working towards a common goal."   


oceanexploration: "We had little option other than to have the Aruban dive division recover the samples and bring them back under their care.  Remember we are Americans working in Aruban waters, subject to their laws, invitation, and blessing.  Our hands are tied for the most part. I personally was extremely uncomfortable with the chain of custody, being that we weren't a part of it, but I was powerless to do anything about it.     The samples were photographed in detail by one Aruban diver and the other two investigated the contents of the trap, the dimensions, the rigging, and what surrounded the trap.  From the video, it looked like they did a diligent and careful job with the samples and the underwater photography.  I don't know who has these pictures, but I must assume ALE."  

 
BROTHER OF BETH HOLLOWAY'S POST TO THE SCARED MONKEYS FORUM

Private Eye: "If I understood Kyle correctly, and that would be that the Arubans retrieved and possessed all finds, not sharing anything with the crew, then that effort was a waste of time and effort. The only thing it could have accomplished was to locate additional evidence for the Arubans to destroy. I am not sure if that was the protocol out of Aruba's waters though. The effort was superb, but the game was fixed."

 
THE ROV IMAGES

Re: Natalee Case Discussion #778 11/23/08 -
« Reply #408 on: November 24, 2008, 03:59:08 PM »
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4173.msg555618#msg555618
 
 
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #778 11/23/08 -
« Reply #410 on: November 24, 2008, 04:01:55 PM »
Photos given to the FBI sent to Dave and Robin posted on the internet are NOT the
photos posted above.  These were not given to the FBI until recently.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4173.msg555621#msg555621
 
++++++++++
 
Kyle Kingman
Senior Geophysical Project Manager at Alpine Ocean Seismic Survey Inc.
Greater New York City Area

Current
Senior Geophysical Operations Manager at Alpine Ocean Seismic Survey Inc.
 
Past
Manager at Kingman Geophysical Solutions
 
Education
Rutgers, The State University of New Jersey-New Brunswick
 
Industry
Oil & Energy
 
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/b/65/464

The casino's web site says that it has been in business for 30 years.
But it was previously owned by anothers

This casino was first opened by Danny Jones in 1985 after he purchased it from Frank King (formerly King International Casino).  On September 1,1998 the GHC was sold to Mike Posner and he renamed the casino Excelsior Casino. I recently had spoken with Mike about the GHC's inventory of chips and he can not release any of the old chips for another year or so.

Sorry...Can't post the link...it says RWV, but the link says RU!

Magnolia if you google RU and NH research it should take you there...Lots of 2005 business info there.


EXCELSIOR CASINO N.V.
Business address J.E. IRAUSQUIN BLVD. 230, NOORD
Legal form LIMITED LIABILITY COMPANY
Name of the company EXCELSIOR CASINO N.V.
Statutory seat ARUBA
Date of incorporation 19 JUNE 1998

Authorized capital ARUBAN FLORINS 100,000.00
Issued capital ARUBAN FLORINS 20,000.00
Paid up capital ARUBAN FLORINS 20,000.00
Fiscal year 01 JANUARY thru 31 DECEMBER
DIRECTORS - AUTHORIZED PERSONS AND CORPORATE BODIES - SUPERVISORY BOARD:
POSNER, WALTER BRETT;
Residing in 9 BANOCKBURN COURT , BANOCKBURN III, U.S.A.
Born in U.S.A., CHICAGO, ILLINOIS on 21 MAY 1960
Nationality AMERICAN
Position MANAGING DIRECTOR
Effective 23 OCTOBER 1998
Authority FULL
OBJECTIVE(S) OF THE COMPANY
TO OPERATE A CASINO AT THE "HOLIDAY IN RESORT".

Mum,

This is what is in the chamber of commerce registry now, but I am having trouble copying....the pop up closes each time I attempt to do so....I entered Excelsior Casino N.V.:

http://www.arubachamber.com/registry/registry_search.afp

Just realized that you will have to redo the search.

Mum, off the top of your head, do you know who Posner's
Aruban partner is?  Don't you have to have an Aruban parner
to open a business on the island?

I would think that in 1998 Paulus was in charge of contracts,
and had a hand in Posner obtaining the casino.

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub5/Excelsior.jpg)

LOL...This computer won't let anything pop up even with the pop up blocker off...Only got that far...What does it say?  TIA

Magnolia...I don't know about the partner thing...Read some things a while ago about moving to Aruba, but pretty sure you just can't pop in and buy a casino.  Well I couldn't! ::MonkeyWink::

Thanks klaas...

Magnolia...didn't Caps say they had to have an Aruban partner?

If so then the Posner's have a silent one or some-one did them a big favor!

Exactly!  Therein lies Paulus' control, I think.
I think he did the same sort of manipulation for Charles Croes.
.

Klaas to the rescue!  Old operating system here and it does some wacky things.  (maybe Santa will bring me a new one)

I had forgotten about Caps mentioning an Aruban partner.....I was off searching and only found Chicago related names.

Charles is tied in with De Palm Tours...Posted something about that in Shango, may be a page back...but it isn't listed on his Chamber records either!

2NJS...They disappear when I try to copy them as well...there is a secret!

Charles Croes was born in New York.  His parents live in West Palm Beach,
Florida.  I seriously doubt that he has Aruban citizenship.
He is an American Traitor, along with Julia Renfro, Mark Pursell, and Posner.

 ::MonkeyHaHa::

Business ties...Too hard for me to copy on this computer, but there is an article about Fast Phones, Charles and De Palm Tours in Shango.  Should only be a page or so back.

Also some interesting stuff in the Charles Croes thread.

Interesting email between Grande and Charles.

What do do...Work or post with Mags... ::MonkeyHaHa::

I agree.  I hope they all burn hell.

(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d118/Sanddrops/Julia1.jpg)

That is one disgusting group of people.  And to think, two of the people on that list made direct contact with Beth and Jug immediately after they arrived on Aruba.

in September 2006 then Minister of Home Affairs Johan Remkes said that the KLPD investigation in the Holloway-case 'likely would take weeks, not months'.

by then the KLPD was about to take over the investigation.

the Minister of Home Affairs is Manager (Korpsbeheerder) of the KLPD

Kingdom Relations are also part of the Ministry of Home Affairs.
but in 2005 and 2006 there was a special Minister without portfolio (without a actual Ministry) for Kingdom Relations.
now there as a State Secretary for Kingdom Relations, resorting under the Ministry for Home Affairs.

http://www.nu.nl/algemeen/816335/nederland-gaat-holloway-onderzoek-leiden.html

http://www.nu.nl/algemeen/816335/nederland-gaat-holloway-onderzoek-leiden.html

not wanting to open old wounds = not wanting to pull old cows out of the ditch

show to the world that everything is done to solve the case = PR-stunt.

but even beforehand (in the same interview) Remkes said the investigation was likely going to take weeks, not months.

blueprints:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YoG9zxQXcuQ&feature=related

It is beyond my comprehension why so many Monkeys are getting on that Aruban/Dutch roller coaster again ... optimistic that justice for Natalee Holloway is going to come from the Aruban Administration and or ... the Dutch Administration yet ... disregarding the troubling happenings encompassing the Persistence undertaking and ... the chain of custody of the contents of that cage/trap.  Kyle Kingman held an official position on board that ship and what he has shared ... regarding his concerns on a private site as well as the Scared Monkey's site ... is for the most part not taken seriously by Monkeys.

As Beth would say ... "Greta ... I think this is huge".

Natalee Holloway's remains could be in the hand of those who have denied her justice from the getgo.

Think about it.

In 2005, Rudy Croes made it known that there was a Jan Vander Sloot/Paulus van der Sloot connection.

In 2006 Rudy Croes requested a Dutch investigation of the Natalee Holloway case under the control of Netherlands' Internal Affairs Minister Johan Remkes ... a Minister with a Paulus van der Sloot connection.  On January 1, 2003 ... Johan Remkes endorsed the the appointment of Paulus van der Sloot to "deputy member of the common Court of Justice of the Netherlands antilles and Aruba".

The Dutch investigation of 2006 encompassed the search of the van der Sloot residence and ... it encompassed pouring through the Natalee Holloway case file yet ... in over two years since ... there has been no accountability of those involved in the happenings of the morning and ... there has been no accountability of those in the Dutch/Aruban administration who participated in the coverup.

The latest developments are not developments at all.  They are flashbacks to 2005 and 2006.

I suspect that the Aruban/Dutch administrations have two agendas ...

1.  an agenda to create a distraction away from the contents of the trap/cage discovered and turned over unchallenged to the ALE by John Silvetti of the Persistence

2.  an agenda to close the Natalee Holloway case and ... in an attempt to pacify the family ...  a sacrificial lamb has been selected to take the fall.  In other words ... accountability for a compromised investigation will starts and ends with Jan Vander Straaten?

Janet

+++++


JUNE, 2005/AUGUST, 2005

THE PAULUS VAN DER SLOOT CONNECTION

Paulus van der Sloot - NOVA/TWAN HUYS - 06/28/05

Paulus van der Sloot: That gives a feeling of absurdity. It is indeed almost unimaginable that by someone you actually know very well, where you worked together with for a long time, that that one comes to tell you that you are suspected of complicity to murder.

HUYS: Who was that in your case?

VAN DER SLOOT: That was, in this case, that was the leader of the team of police commissioners.

HUYS: Jan van der Straaten.

VAN DER SLOOT: That was Jan van der Straaten, yes.

HUYS: And you know each other very well?

VAN DER SLOOT: Yes.


Eric Zaandam - President Police Union, Aruban television 8/28/06

Now, information are coming out that Jan v/d Straatten was indeed investigated and had telephone conversations with people about the case that he should not have contacts with, or even talk about the case.


Rudy Croes - Minister of Justice - Top 95 radio 8/28/06

Aruban Minister of Justice Mr. Rudy Croes, in relationship with the Natalee Holloway investigation, revealed a very serious information in direction of Van der Straaten.

Minister Croes revealed that he knows about various telephone calls of Van der Straaten and that he, the minister, knows with whom Van der Straaten was talking to ...
 

<snipped>

Natalee and her family deserve justice, and we will not let up until they have it!
Natalee’s Freebirds

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=615.msg287560;topicseen#msg287560


AUGUST, 2006

August 26, 2006
Aruba wants Dutch police to take over Natalee case

ORANJESTAD, Aruba (AP) — Aruban authorities want Dutch police to take over the investigation of the disappearance of American teenager Natalee Holloway, who vanished on the Caribbean island more than one year ago, a local newspaper reported Friday.  Aruba's Justice Minister Rudy Croes sent a letter last week to Netherlands' Internal Affairs Minister Johan Remkes and to another Dutch official asking the Dutch police to handle the case, saying little progress had been made, the Solo di Pueblo newspaper reported.

If Dutch police take over the investigation, they will have access to all case files and their own office, according to the newspaper, which didn't cite its source. Remkes will visit the Dutch Caribbean islands, including Aruba, next week, authorities said in the Netherlands.

Telephone calls placed to Croes' office for comment Friday went unanswered.

Holloway vanished on May 30, 2005, the last night of a high school graduation trip to Aruba. Then 18, the native of Mountain Brook was last seen leaving a bar with three young men.

Authorities have arrested eight people in connection with her disappearance and then released them for lack of evidence.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,210525,00.html
http://www.decaturdaily.com/decaturdaily/news/060826/aruba.shtml

is Posner "kept hidden"

excerpt:
Parties at the Wyndham are always generous, and the food on the buffet was exceptional: mini lamb chops, giant shrimp cooked in cream and Pernod, crab cakes and beautiful canapés. Free flowing drinks from the bar made the event ever so easier to handle. General Manager Rob Smith and Director of Operations Joe Najjar greeted their guests and mingled with other general managers from the strip among them Jeff Lesker from the Radisson and Barry Kaplan from the Hyatt.
http://www.visitaruba.com/facts/newsdesk/backissues/newsletter55.html#story9

excerpt:  Free flowing drinks from the bar made the event ever so easier to handle.

That being the case, we really haven't given them adequate credit for their true level of ignorance.

By the time all is said and done, Aruba will NEVER recover - EVER.

WoW !  Talk about being a glutton for punishment!

AMAZING!

caesu
Atzo Nicolaï (Delft, 22 februari 1960) is een Nederlandse politicus. Hij is lid van de VVD en was tussen 7 juli 2006 en 22 februari 2007 Minister voor Bestuurlijke vernieuwing en Koninkrijksrelaties (BVK)

http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atzo_Nicolaï

Nicolaï positive about assistance in Holloway case
ORANGE CITY (26-08-06) - Minister of Administrative Reform and Kingdom Relations Atzo Nicolaï (VVD) has welcomed the request from Aruba to deliver agents for further investigation into the Natalee Holloway disappeared. Aruba wants that the Netherlands will give direction to the investigation. Nicolaï closed Thursday his acquaintance visit to the Netherlands Antilles and Aruba off. On his last day he said, in Aruba, sympathetic to the request from Aruba to assist, if the reports Amigoe.

"But there must still be investigated under what agreements we just go to work." The request was made by the Aruban Justice Minister Rudy Croes (MEP).

The Ministry of Home Affairs confirmed a request from Aruba to have been given and that Minister Johan Remkes (VVD) of Home Affairs here next week during his visit to Aruba wants to talk about.

Aruba is already more than a year in her stomach with the case disappearance of Natalee Holloway. The 18-year-old American girl disappeared after an evening steps on May 30, 2005 with three boys in the night. She then was never found. Aruba has since the disappearance ten people arrested, but now everyone is released. From the United States has criticized the hard way the Aruban public prosecutor has addressed the matter.

The Netherlands has already helped in the investigation by the deployment of F16 fighter jets and-detection dogs. The current request of Croes goes much further. The Dutch detection agents would gain power in Aruba, a private location and weapons may also contribute. Croes wants the National Police Services (KLPD) the direction the investigation takes. (Source Amigoe)

dutch

Nicolaï positief over bijstand in Holloway-zaak        
ORANJESTAD (26-08-06) - Minister van Bestuurlijke Vernieuwing en Koninkrijksrelaties Atzo Nicolaï (VVD) staat positief tegenover het verzoek van Aruba om agenten te leveren voor nader onderzoek naar de verdwenen Natalee Holloway. Aruba wil dat Nederland leiding gaat geven aan het opsporingsonderzoek. Nicolaï sloot donderdag zijn kennismakingsbezoek aan de Nederlandse Antillen en Aruba af. Op zijn laatste dag zei hij, op Aruba, welwillend tegenover het verzoek van Aruba te staan, zo meldt de Amigoe.

'Maar er moet nog wel onderzocht worden onder welke afspraken we precies gaan werken.' Het verzoek is gedaan door de Arubaanse Justitie-minister Rudy Croes (MEP).

Het ministerie van Binnenlandse Zaken bevestigt een dergelijk verzoek van Aruba te hebben gekregen en stelt dat minister Johan Remkes (VVD) van Binnenlandse Zaken hier volgende week tijdens zijn bezoek aan Aruba over wil praten.

Aruba zit al meer dan een jaar in haar maag met de verdwijningszaak van Natalee Holloway. Het 18-jarige Amerikaanse meisje verdween na een avondje stappen op 30 mei 2005 met drie jongens de nacht in. Ze werd daarna nooit meer teruggevonden. Aruba heeft sinds de verdwijning tien mensen gearresteerd, maar inmiddels is iedereen weer vrijgelaten. Vanuit de Verenigde Staten is er harde kritiek geleverd op de manier waarop het Arubaanse Openbaar Ministerie de zaak heeft aangepakt.

Nederland heeft al eerder geholpen bij het onderzoek door de inzet van F16-straaljagers en opsporingshonden. Het huidige verzoek van Croes gaat veel verder. De Nederlandse agenten zouden opsporingsbevoegdheid op Aruba krijgen, een eigen locatie en ook wapens mogen dragen. Croes wil dat het Korps Landelijke Politie Diensten (KLPD) de leiding over het onderzoek neemt.(bron Amigoe)

yes, a Minister without portfolio


http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minister_zonder_portefeuille
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minister_without_portfolio#Netherlands

Minister without budget, resorting under Ministry of Home Affairs (Remkes)

caesu
 
The current request of Croes goes much further. The Dutch detection agents would gain power in Aruba, a private location and weapons may also contribute. Croes wants the National Police Services (KLPD) the direction the investigation takes.

http://www.diarioaruba.com/diabierna/noticia/news5.html
(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b258/texasmom55/HollowayCaseNews1/AtzoNicolai.jpg)

August 25, 2006

Papiamento translation:


according minister atzo nicolai, gobierno of aruba have to is dispuesto for work together cu the netherlands hour is necesario oranjestad(aan): diabierna daily paper owing to interview minister dutch atzo nicolai, of relacionnan in kingdom y reforma of gobierno, that is at aruba actualmente. the minister owing to splica cu past owing to visit all the another islands antillano end y now aruba. past owing to tell cu aruba have one posicion unique in kingdom cu his status aparte, while cu on the another islands have several person cu is dispuesto for arrive at cierto good acuerdonan. aruba have his status autonomo end, while cu st maarten y corsow wanted arrive at this also. at aruba the is one exito much big, sinembargo corsow y st maarten have to as cuenta cu have to organiza some asunto much good, as maneho financiero, where cu have to girl debenan externo, control, banco central, seguridad, ministerio publico y criminalidad. at aruba on much sharp the status aparte owing to bay good, sinembargo on maneho financiero, disciplina of presupuesto y debenan of the country, have to come one mehoracion. this according nicolai, that owing to follow tell cu have to come mehoracion in apparatus of husticia y assure seguridad, after of the caso holloway. the minster owing to follow tell cu will bay work acuerdonan cu the another islands, sinembargo is good for aruba is wordo envolvi also in this. daily paper owing to ask about the minister if we autonomia is at danger y the minister owing to tell cu not.el owing to splica cu the or is bay touch cu status aparte. according the mandatario, if do you genuinely wanted is boss of you country for atende cu do you problemanan, do you have to can work more together on some asunto. at europa do you looking at same, where cu much dutch do not desea for remainder of europa dicidi for they, but according nicolai, if is necesario for coopera, for regulation some asunto mihor in do you country, do you have to hasie. come across

Minister Nicolaï brengt negendaags bezoek aan Aruba en de Nederlandse Antillen  (voor 9 dagen )

14 augustus 2006

================
Minister Remkes bezoekt Aruba

29 augustus 2006

Minister Nicolaï brings nine day visit to Aruba and Netherlands Antilles (for 9 days)

14 August, 2006

================
Minister Remkes visit Aruba

29 Aug., 2006

http://www.minbzk.nl/vertegenwoordiging-aruba/persberichten?Zoe=&ZoeWay=&index_year=2006&index_month=&Van=&pager_page=1

Nicolaï Minister for Administrative Renewal and Kingdom Relations
July 7, 2006

(http://antilliaans.caribiana.nl/images/assets/11877913)

Atzo Nicolaï on July 7, 2006 appointed Minister for Administrative Renewal and Kingdom Relations (Industry Association) of cabinet Balkenende III. He is the successor of former Minister Alexander Pechtold, who has submitted his resignation after the Second Kamerfractie of D66 confidence in the Cabinet had denounced. On July 3, 2006 to the former minister honorably discharged.

Atzo Nicolaï (1960) was in the Cabinet Balkenende I and II State Secretary at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. He was focused on European Affairs. He was a member of the Lower House for the VVD and he has been involved in various functions with the kunstbeleid, inter alia by the Council for Arts and Culture Council.

Allocation portfolios

Minister Johan Remkes and his new colleague this afternoon Atzo Nicolaï have put their signatures under the protocol that governs the distribution of their duties at the Ministry of Interior Affairs and Kingdom Relations. The tasks corresponding to the division in the cabinet Balkenende II.

Broadly remains Remkes Minister responsible for Security, Public Administration and Government Personnel, while Minister Nicolaï concerns Kingdom, Democratic Renewal, Other Government, Urban, Constitutional Affairs, ICT + government, as well as personal data and travel documents.

yes, that's pretty extraordinary that Croes would go that far.
and still he was trashing the Dutch involvement and lack of support beginning this month.

did the KLPD really want to go to the bottom of the case in September 2006?
or did they refuse to do this when the KLPD saw that the Dutchies were mostly the bad ones (with links to The Netherlands?).
apparently Croes doesn't think so now, else he wouldn't start this new probe and insult a Dutch Minister.
explains why Remkes said the investigation would 'likely take weeks, not months' before the KLPD even had started and why he finds Croes 'an unreliable source of inspiration'.

Would this be a precedent?  If so, would it have long range implications for The Netherlands and Aruba in terms of Aruba's independence?  The reason I ask is because I'm wondering if it does have long term ramifications can other polticians in The Netherlands keep it from happening?

and this caesu

Minister Nicolaï brings nine day visit to Aruba and Netherlands Antilles (for 9 days) 14 August, 2006
Minister Remkes visit Aruba 29 Aug., 2006

this stinks

there was also another problem

Yet meeting Nicolaï and Oduber
ORANGE CITY (24-10-06) - The Dutch Minister for Kingdom Relations, Atzo Nicolaï (VVD), today visited Aruba. Despite the tense relations between the Netherlands and Aruba, was a conversation between Nicolaï including Prime Minister Nel Oduber (MEP) on the program. "It has a lot of trouble, but I'm glad that the two sides talking again anyway," said Rens Knegt, the Representative of the Netherlands in Aruba, reports the Amigoe.

Late last week showed Oduber still know that Nicolaï no longer have to come back if the Netherlands attitude towards the financial loans from Aruba does not change. This afternoon, however, took place a call between the two leaders. Also Minister Nilo Swaen (MEP) of Finance and Economic Affairs would be of the party.

Prior to the consultations, there was a meeting with Governor Fredis Refunjol. Depending on the outcome of the talks with Prime Minister Oduber, Nicolaï leave tonight (back) to Curacao, where he arrived yesterday.

The relations between the Netherlands and Aruba are sharp, since Aruba wants to borrow 50 million dollars from Deutsche Bank. The bank refuses to provide the loan, however, after Canada had registered objections. Netherlands wants the terms of Article 29 of the Kingdom of Staff to cover any loans that Aruba is concerned. At this moment those conditions apply only for financial loans that Aruba outside the Kingdom shutdown. By the attitude of the Netherlands continued Prime Minister Oduber stop all negotiations, including negotiations on further cooperation between the kingdom islands after the disintegration of the Netherlands Antilles.

====================
Toch ontmoeting Nicolaï en Oduber        
ORANJESTAD (24-10-06) - De Nederlandse minister voor Koninkrijksrelaties, Atzo Nicolaï (VVD), bezoekt vandaag Aruba. Ondanks de gespannen verhoudingen tussen Nederland en Aruba, stond een gesprek tussen Nicolaï met onder meer premier Nel Oduber (MEP) op het programma. 'Het heeft veel moeite gekost, maar ik ben blij dat de twee partijen toch weer praten', aldus Rens Knegt, de Vertegenwoordiger van Nederland op Aruba, zo meldt de Amigoe.

Eind vorige week liet Oduber nog weten dat Nicolaï niet meer terug hoefde te komen, indien Nederland zijn houding ten aanzien van de financiële leningen van Aruba niet wijzigt. Vanmiddag vond echter toch een gesprek plaats tussen de twee bewindslieden. Ook minister Nilo Swaen (MEP), van Financiën en Economische Zaken zou daarbij van de partij zijn.

Voorafgaande aan het overleg was er een ontmoeting met gouverneur Fredis Refunjol. Afhankelijk van de uitkomsten van het gesprek met premier Oduber, vertrekt Nicolaï vanavond (terug) naar Curaçao, waar hij gisteren arriveerden.

De verhoudingen tussen Nederland en Aruba staan op scherp, sinds Aruba 50 miljoen dollar wil lenen van de Deutsche Bank. De bank weigert de lening echter te verstrekken nadat Nederland bezwaar had aangetekend. Nederland wil dat de voorwaarden uit artikel 29 van het Koninkrijkstatuut gaan gelden voor alle leningen die Aruba aangaat. Op dit moment gelden die voorwaarden alleen nog voor financiële leningen die Aruba buiten het Koninkrijk afsluit. Door de houding van Nederland zette premier Oduber alle onderhandelingen stop, ook de onderhandelingen over meer samenwerking tussen de koninkrijkseilanden na het uiteenvallen van de Nederlandse Antill

The Holloway case remains a lingering issue. Will there ever come final end to this tragedy? Aruba has now asked for reinforcement from the Netherlands. They want even that we get the lead on the investigation. That will be nice and fall in America ... There are already so criminal about our country to speak ...
(http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41231000/jpg/_41231259_ap_holl_closeup203.jpg)

Minister of Government Reform and Kingdom Relations Atzo Nicolaï welcomes the request from Aruba to deliver agents for further investigation into the Natalee Holloway disappeared. Aruba wants that the Netherlands will give direction to the investigation.


Nicolaï closed Thursday his acquaintance visit to the Netherlands Antilles and Aruba off. On his last day he said, in Aruba, sympathetic to the request from Aruba to stand. "But there must still be investigated under what agreements we just go to work." The request was made by the Aruban Minister Rudy Croes (Justice).


Aruba is already more than a year in her stomach with the case disappearance of Natalee Holloway. The 18-year-old American girl disappeared after an evening steps on May 30, 2005 with three boys in the night. She then was never found. Aruba has since the disappearance ten people arrested, but now everyone is released. From the United States has criticized the hard way the Aruban public prosecutor has addressed the matter.


The Netherlands has already helped in the investigation by the deployment of F16 fighter jets and-detection dogs. The current request of Croes goes much further. The Dutch detection agents would gain power in Aruba, a private location and weapons may also contribute. Croes wants the National Police Services (KLPD) the direction the investigation takes.


The Ministry of Home Affairs confirmed a request from Aruba to have been given and that of Interior Minister Remkes here next week during his visit to Aruba wants to talk about.


Perhaps this is our chance again in a better light to come to America. If the Dutch managed to find her ... But yes, that is what we aspire? Find her to the sharp criticism to come? I've said it before, but I think that the case be disproportionately addressed. In itself, this intensive approach, but grab important than any other similar cases so on. How many parents of missing children would sign for 5% of the attention given to Natalee? It is again waiting for more development so.

===================
De zaak Holloway blijft een slepende kwestie. Zal er ooit een ontnkoping aan dit drama komen? Aruba heeft momenteel verzocht om versterking vanuit Nederland. Ze willen zelfs dat we de leiding krijgen over het onderzoek. Dat zal lekker vallen in Amerika… Daar zijn ze al zo over ons criminele land te spreken…


Minister van Bestuurlijke Vernieuwing en Koninkrijksrelaties Atzo Nicolaï staat positief tegenover het verzoek van Aruba om agenten te leveren voor nader onderzoek naar de verdwenen Natalee Holloway. Aruba wil dat Nederland leiding gaat geven aan het opsporingsonderzoek.


Nicolaï sloot donderdag zijn kennismakingsbezoek aan de Nederlandse Antillen en Aruba af. Op zijn laatste dag zei hij, op Aruba, welwillend tegenover het verzoek van Aruba te staan. ‘Maar er moet nog wel onderzocht worden onder welke afspraken we precies gaan werken.’ Het verzoek is gedaan door de Arubaanse minister Rudy Croes (Justitie).


Aruba zit al meer dan een jaar in haar maag met de verdwijningszaak van Natalee Holloway. Het 18-jarige Amerikaanse meisje verdween na een avondje stappen op 30 mei 2005 met drie jongens de nacht in. Ze werd daarna nooit meer teruggevonden. Aruba heeft sinds de verdwijning tien mensen gearresteerd, maar inmiddels is iedereen weer vrijgelaten. Vanuit de Verenigde Staten is er harde kritiek geleverd op de manier waarop het Arubaanse Openbaar Ministerie de zaak heeft aangepakt.


Nederland heeft al eerder geholpen bij het onderzoek door de inzet van F16-straaljagers en opsporingshonden. Het huidige verzoek van Croes gaat veel verder. De Nederlandse agenten zouden opsporingsbevoegdheid op Aruba krijgen, een eigen locatie en ook wapens mogen dragen. Croes wil dat het Korps Landelijke Politie Diensten (KLPD) de leiding over het onderzoek neemt.


Het ministerie van Binnenlandse Zaken bevestigt een dergelijk verzoek van Aruba te hebben gekregen en stelt dat minister Remkes van Binnenlandse Zaken hier volgende week tijdens zijn bezoek aan Aruba over wil praten.


Misschien is dat wel onze kans weer in een beter daglicht bij Amerika te komen. Als de Nederlanders haar wel weten te vinden… Maar ja, is dat dan wat we nastreven? Haar vinden om van de forse kritieken af te komen? Ik heb het al eerder gezegd, maar ik vind dat de zaak buitenproportioneel wordt aangepakt. Op zich is zo’n intensieve aanpak prima, maar pak dan al die andere soortgelijke zaken ook zo aan. Hoeveel ouders van vermiste kinderen zouden tekenen voor 5% van de aandacht die er wordt gegeven aan Natalee? Het is weer wachten op meer ontwikkeling dus.

Janet,

I mostly agree.  I see no difference between this new investigation and the previous KLPD attempt, which produced activity, but no results.

I do not agree that Van der Straaten will absorb any blame, as I find it more likely that the new investigation will find that Croes was wrong in his comments.  Then, they will close the case again.

In my opinion there were human remains in the trap.  Quite likely, Natalee's remains, though I'm not yet convinced of that.

I believe those remains are gone forever, not being held somewhere so that if the truth comes out they can be returned.

For whoever those remains are, and that person's family - that is a tragedy and an injustice that can never be righted on this earth.

I take the cage contents issue very seriously, but like everything else in this case it seems there is no accountability. 

How do you force someone to tell the truth?

If we knew that, we could go straight to Joran and put an end to all of this. 


JMO

Prior to the consultations, there was a meeting with Governor Fredis Refunjol.

What functions of government fall under the Governor on Aruba?  He seemed almost invisible with regard to the Holloway case.  Does he have any political power to move an investigation?

Nicolaï positive about assistance in Holloway case

A few days later  Remkes in Aruba

Is it a friend of vd Sloot ?

Has Remkes Croes's request rejected ?

this was 2006.

i am speculating here.
because i am having a hard time giving Rudy Croes the benefit of the doubt.
but for the sake looking at this from all sides and not ruling out anything.

it might be that Rudy Croes realized that his OM was too much infected with corrupt Dutchies.
he couldn't request his PG Croes-Fernandes to order a Internal Investigation (Landsrecherche) because the one managing the investigation would be a public-prosecutor from the same corrupt OM.
(and Jan van der Straten of all people was at the time the Landsrecherche Commissioner (http://almanak.overheid.nl/2373/Commissaris/) - not 100% about this)

so Rudy Croes hoped the KLPD would be able to uncover all conflicts of interests and solve the case.
that's why he made the extraordinary decision to let the KLPD head the investigation.
but the KLPD failed to do this (because of too many links to the Dutch Justice System itself? or because Remkes appointed  van der Sloot? < i have my doubts about this, any Minister would have appointed Van der Sloot, Remkes most likely was just acting on a recommendation from Aruba).

maybe now (2008-2009) Rudy Croes is going to give it a 2nd try.
but Rudy would only do this if he is sure this time it will lead to something.

again this is of course a theory. might all be a smokescreen again.

Governor has no power. same as the Queen also has no power. only ceremonial.
only when a new coalition government is formed there is some minor involvement.

If Remkes did not appoint Van Der Sloot he could be a 'go with the flow' type of politician.. In other words, he would not go against what another Minister did. 

Your theory makes sense...especially if Van Der Straaten was the Landsrecherche Commissioner at the time.

This could all get very interesting over the next few weeks.  Thanks to you and Johan for all of your insight and information.

The Caylee thread never ceases to amaze me and I just had to share this with you.  One poster wanted to know if Red was Cindy Anthony's brother.  Another poster was asking who Shango is and if he is Urine's lawyer.   ::MonkeyHaHa::

When we were working on some things in Shango, it came out that Urine might have had money coming in because he was quite possibly working at The Mill and that he is very likely bisexual.  Julia has a connection to this.  Those guys were also dealing in drugs and porn videos.

Smokescreen yes

Because what happened with the request of Croes?

If I recall, Chemaly, Sr. was/is involved in the ownership of some of the hotels.

Come to think of it, Shango just may be Urine's lawyer!!!!!   ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyCool::

this video has been removed  due to terms of use violation ?

Deep Water Search for Natalee Holloway

Louis Shaffer is paying for and leading the deep water search for Natalee Holloway off the coast of Aruba. Estimated cost for the boat, crew and equipment if $1 million. Dave Holloway has decided to stay in the USA during the deep water search for his daughter as he doesn't want to be present when her body is found. A big thank you to Louis Shaffer for assisting the Holloway and Twitty families.

Read More about all the wonderful people assisting in the search for Natalee Holloway.

If Aruba doesn't think the eyes of the American nation are upon them, they need to read this:
"Nothing is being done to gain name recognition. This is to help these people," Silvetti said. "Most of us have watched this on television, and I can only imagine the horror any parent would go through searching for their child in a foreign country."
Especially when you see the foreign country doing everything they possibly can to allow the guilty to escape justice.

http://www.katablog.com/category_blogs.cfm?category=11&pagenum=6

DIARIO
Fri Aug 25, 2006 7:57 am       


The Government Begged The Netherlands to Take Over Natalee Holloway Case

ORANJESTAD (AAN): Yesterday it came to DIARIO's knowledge that the Government of Aruba would have begged the Netherlands to take over the Natalee Holloway case. DIARIO took advantage of Dutch Minister Atzo Nicolai's visit to ask him about this.

The minister confirmed that the government asked him for the Netherlands to take over the case but an evaluation of this has to be made and a special team of "cold cases" will do this before a decision can be made if the case will be taken over yes or no.

All this is an indication that the hope in Aruba that the case can still be solved is gone, and a cause of this is mainly the lack of money, lack of money to work overtime etc. and now the Netherlands is being run to and begged to take the case over.

This is surely a slap in the face of the Justice Department and the authorities who could not solve the case.

http://www.bondia.com/index.php?option=com_flippingbook&book_id=2

(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b258/texasmom55/HollowayCaseNews1/12132008Bondia1a01.jpg)

(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b258/texasmom55/HollowayCaseNews1/12132008Bondia3a01.jpg)

Reviewing the dossier and the Natalee case is different than investigating the investigation of the case...IMO

(http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh25/johan555/Animation2.gif)

Doubt if 'brilliant' describes him. 'Stupid' fits better IMHO.  ::MonkeyLaugh::

I agree with you that sociopaths state fragments of truth when they open their pie holes.

Take Joran for instance - he said 'she wanted to see sharks',  'we went to the light house', 'I fancied Ruth, not Natalee'.
Sharks = card shark/loan shark/sharks in ocean. Lighthouse = where the 'trade' took place, someone saw them on the road so they had to say that's where they were going, etc). Fancied Ruth = trying to explain in his own head why he settled on Natalee that night - ruth didn't fancy him so he should have left it alone and he wouldn't have been in all this trouble...   

Then we have the statement 'something bad happened.' To me, gang rape is something bad. Dying is something bad. Being robbed, being sold, taken against one's will is something bad. So did the J2K rape her (is that not something bad) and then something bad happened? Were they just taking her to this trade destination, but she went into convulsions (like Joran described to Patrick) and she died? Is her accidental death the something bad?   

And Deepaks statement where he stopped the car to get out to take a leak. And Satish's statement where he said he told Deepak to 'stop the car' so he could through out his yard drink (why do you totally stop a car to toss a cup out the window??) These are 1/2 truths. They stopped the car to do something. Toss Joran out? As Joran carried Natalee in his arms?

Steve Croes puts himself on a boat in the ocean outside H.I, says he hears a girl struggle and scream and a few guys on the beach with her. But MBers were skinny dipping also on the beach outside the H.I. so what beach was Steve on? Steve also places himself at C&C that night, saying he gave a couple of MBers a ride back to the hotel from C&C. Was he really at C&C that night? If so did he drive anybody back to the H.I.? If so, who? Is he the mystery friend Joran and Deepak and Satish say that Joran was talking to inside C&C and bought the person a drink.

Why would Steve say he heard a girl screaming on the beach if he was supposed to protect his good friends Kalpoes who said they dropped Natalee off in front of her hotel? What purpose would it serve for Steve or Kalpoes for him to say she was screaming? Did he hear her screaming as she was put on a boat? He said he was sleeping on a boat (the boat that takes tourists over to the Tattoo boat). A codetalker said "the DJ is the vessel". Steve is a DJ.

Why did most kids fled Aruba (Guido, Cromvort, Gottenbos boys) and why would Steve Croes remain on Aruba and opened up his pie hole? Is he guilty of being part of this travestly?

We haven't heard a peep from Steve Croes or Kalpoes. Why? Especially Satish. Why is Joran doing all the blabbing?

 
btw, the missing cell phone belonged to Sander Gottenbos (he said he lost it in school during the day). The Dutch should check all cell phone activity from Paulus' cell phone also (didn't he say he used his wife's cell phone that night?)  I would love to see the REAL cell phone calls all through that night and the next night and also for the 10 days they had to do what they needed to do to cover up this crime.
 

I hope I am misunderstanding that KLPD might be the ones asked to investigate vd Straten.  They already did a re-investigation and search of the Sloot compound and seemed to just rubber stamp everything ALE had already done.

They already investigated in 2006.  Needs to be somebody different or will just be same old same old results of finding nothing at all amiss.

.

sharon
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Re: Natalee Case Discussion #784 12/8/08 -
« Reply #941 on: Today at 07:45:51 AM »
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?PHPSESSID=fea0c5c52bcc816e910dc8082253cda6&topic=4227.940
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++



(http://www.rompin.com/frog.cover1.jpg)

(http://img117.imageshack.us/img117/1543/clintonatnixonsfuneralidr8.jpg)
Clinton at podium at President Richard Nixon's funeral. I am standing to the left

(http://img117.imageshack.us/img117/708/billygramatnixonsfuneranc3.jpg)
Billy Graham at RN funeral. I'm to the left

(http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/7112/militaryhonorguardescorsp0.jpg)
Military Honor Guards take the casket to the buriel plot. The family followed.
21 gun salute and then a military fly by on a dark cloudy day. It was impressive.

Good to see you Kermit!   ::MonkeyCool::

FIRST LET'S CONNECT THESE PLAYERS INVOLVED IN CORRUPTION IN ARUBA:
Paulus van der Sloot
Jan van der Straaten
Zwinkels
Vocking


Zaandam keeps on saying in his book, two days after 5/29, the body of Natalee H. may have already been foundand Cvp [police commissioner] looked the other way to do a favour for Paul vd Sloot (ex of chief staff of Cabinet PG [prosecutor general] J. Zwinkels).
Posted by Getagrip at 9/19/2005 12:18:00 PM

Remember ZWINKELS:

Paulus buddy from the old Tilburg days is the Prime Minister - Oduber 1991

and ZWINKELS WAS ATTORNEY GENERAL IN 1991 (we also know that this zwinkels guy was involved in mafia money too and that is why he was forced to resign for a period of time -


All the main players knew each other during his time in office
Governmental authorities
Mr. J.H.M. Zwinkels - Attorney General
Mr. B. Vocking - Deputy Director, Aruba Correctional Institute
Ms. C. van den Berg - Head of the Rehabilitation and Child Welfare Council
Ms. Y. Spellen - Director, Guardianship Board
Mr. J. van de Straten - Head of the National Bureau of Investigations

Zwinkels is back in power as attorney general in 1994

In 1995 Zwinkels is the Prosecutor in Aruba.


1997-1997 - Zwinkels left after a 2 yr battle with the Aruban gov't (they accused him of stealing drug money)


July of 1998 he has his Attorney General job back 07-07-98



June 26th, 2005 at 3:30 pm
Simian,
his lordship did not bring the key for the Arawaks
"they were stymied by misinformation and false leads planted by the corrupt authorities. Why was Natalee never found? The searchers were directed to all the wrong places!

(more on this later)

Thank you MissTexasmom, good to see you too.

Kermit....so glad to see you.  ::MonkeyDance::
I can't figure out where you may be in the pics, but I'm glad you are back and I hope you can provide info that will bring Justice for Natalee....
Sharon did say: Kermit! Come out, come out, wherever you are. Lots of delicious flies await  ::MonkeyCool::

(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b258/texasmom55/KERMIT/water-bags-repel-flies-2.jpg)

Magnolia asked:

1998-   Michael Posner bought Grand Holiday Casnio September 1 and named it Excelsior.
He is a member of the GAMBINO MAFIA.

2001 Posner purchases the Brickell Bay Casino

Michael Posner's contributions to Aruba according to the newspaper
Aruba Today

Aruba Today- October 24th 2005
Michael Posner Contributes

There are a few people who in the last 10 years have added remendously to Aruba's product with great success. American businessman Michael Posner saw an opportunity in the mid 90's to purchase the Holiday Inn Casino, although it was run down an d on the brink of bankruptcy. Posner stepped in when the Holiday Inn Casino was in terrible condition with only 33 employees. He made a substantial investment into Aruba's product by renovating this deteriorating casino. Today the Excelsior Casino has
over 140 employees, with all management positi ons filled by Ar ubans, and pays millions of dollars in taxes each year.

Mr. Posner procured Aruba as the site for the World Poker Tournament for
the past 4 years and many years into the future. This has created 20-30 million USD for the economy of Aruba and 5 million yearly in free advertising for Aruba's tourist industry.

Posner also purchased and renovated the old Stauffer Hotel, which was considered at the time to be an eyesore to Palm Beach. He transformed the neglected hotel into the Brickell Bay Beach Club and today has over 100 employees, with all management level employment dedicated to Arubans.
He recently delivered a genuine act of kindness by donating all the rooms for the Texas EquuSearch team to search for Natalee Holloway, at a cost of over 100,000 Posner has been a generous supporter of many charities in Aruba, even going so far as to send a sick Aruban child to Disney World with his mot h er as part of the "Make a wish Foundation".

Aruba also thanks Posner for opening doors to potential new guest by making travel easier. He was directly responsible for bringing United Airlines to Aruba. Untied Airlines provides Aruba with 40,000 tourists and 300,000 hotel rooms annually.
Posner received no payment for his services and was awarded the distinction of "Aruba's Goodwill Ambassador".

Posner's contributions to Aruba's economy have been significant and greatly appreciated by the people. Besides all of humanitarian acts of kindness, he is also greatly appreciated for taking the reigns of failing bus inesses where no one else would and developing them into successful entities.
525 on: March 31, 2008, 07:00:13 PMhttp://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2733.msg369659

It's good to see you again Kermit. 

((burp)

excuse me.

Thank you muffybee
Good to see you too.

Thank you billb
those flies were just too tempting.

During the ceremony I was standing to the left of Clinton.
After the ceremony, inside I was downstairs next to another Secret Service agent.

So you are a female Secret Service agent????   I am impressesed.  Are you still active???

Didn't you know amphibians are prone to changing their sex.  ::MonkeyHaHa::

Guess not, there are a lot of things I need to learn.

 ::MonkeyHaHa::

Secret Service agent. I never doubted that you were/are in a position better suited  than the average frog to sort this all out. ::MonkeyWink::
So I surmise that Natalee's disappearance is tied to posner (GAMBINO MAFIA/Excelsior) and with ZWINKELS providing high cover wrt Jan vds and vocking protecting pvds protecting jvds...Natalee (and Beth/Dave/Jug) never had a chance..
Wonder if jvds procured Natalee for posner or posner quest?

During the ceremony I was standing to the left of Clinton.
After the ceremony, inside I was downstairs next to another Secret Service agent.

[/quote]Secret Service agent. I never doubted that you were/are in a position better suited  than the average frog to sort this all out. ::MonkeyWink::
So I surmise that Natalee's disappearance is tied to posner (GAMBINO MAFIA/Excelsior) and with ZWINKELS providing high cover wrt Jan vds and vocking protecting pvds protecting jvds...Natalee (and Beth/Dave/Jug) never had a chance..
Wonder if jvds procured Natalee for posner or posner guest?
[/quote]
Did I say something wrong? Where is everyone? ::MonkeyEek::

(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b258/texasmom55/KERMIT/Fly125.jpg)

http://www.groene.nl/1996/39/rz_aruba.html

Google translation:

9/25/1996

The affair aruba

What did the Amsterdam police in Aruba to search? And why de Ruiter Job wants the entire police and juistitietop replaced on that island? The IRT affair gets a Caribbean tail TO SHORT saw the radiant future for mr JHM Zwinkels. The Attorney-General of Aruba, until September 1991, subordinate to RA Gonsalves at the court in 's-Hertogenbosch, stood in his new work at the head of an ever-expanding further device. Money played no role in the fight against crime in the overseas territory.

BY Rene Zwaap

Since the U.S. Drug Enforcement Agency (DEA) in late eighties to Aruba Winds Down hotbed of international drug mafia uitriep and the motherland's insistence on strong action, the sky was the limit. There was a lemming-like flow of Dutch lawyers toward the small subtropical tourist paradise in motion, with some divisions in the wake of the Royal Navy, undercover agents of the Inter-Regional Rechercheteam (IRT) Melbourne-Sydney, infiltrators from the DEA and U.S. Customs officers.
Soon, the local Public Ministry proportionately three times as large as that of colleagues in Den Haag. It was also the island with a joyful own telefoontap central to the successful recipe of the donor country, where the central interception by the police and justice now houses an equally enjoy high popularity as before Honecker in East Germany or Richard Nixon White House. At a rustic coral reefs point to the Aruban verres the imposing villa of Mr. Zwinkels, as a symbol for the high expectations that he must have had about the new phase of his career had ended up.
On Monday, the idyll under the azure sky of Aruba shattered. Via De Telegraaf leaked a draft of the report of a rich committee headed by former Minister of Justice and Defense Job from the Horseman. In its advice to Voorhoeve of Aruban Affairs Minister De Ruiter suggests a genuine bureaucratic Bartholomew Eight with regard to the entire judiciary and police of the small island. The two police commisarissen of Orange City, Arie Rasmijn and Stanley Zaandam, according to The Horseman because of "unacceptable behavior" from the avenue be sent.
They should be replaced by J. the point, now head of the National Police. That aspect of The Rider Zwinkels reporting should have done. Rasmijn and Zaandam were grown in a short time to his arch-enemies, which so on. The report, De Ruiter also insists on the departure of another tormentor of Zwinkels, the Aruban Minister of Justice Watty Vos, who is responsible for the governance crisis in which draconian law enforcement on the island is immersed.
The bad news is that Zwinkels for his own position will be sacrificed if the opinion of De Ruiter is fully implemented. Zwinkels possible dismissal should be regarded as a peace offering from Den Haag, chief prosecutor in this case A. Docters van Leeuwen and Minister Sorgdrager. They are prepared their man on the bonds to Aruba if that frees them from the very dissident police on the island. According to De Ruiter investments Zwinkels line will not be replaced. His office fell. Instead, there would be a super prosecutor be appointed for both the Antilles as Aruba.
FOR THIS 'clean' in the proper perspective to see, it is necessary to return to February this year. When seized by the De Ruiter now so in the regular verdomhoekje Aruban police chiefs to the Rasmijn and Zaandam typmachine to draw up a report that grew into a bomb under the feet of not only Zwinkels, but also the Amsterdam police leadership, the Domestic Security Service, the Central Forensic Information Service (CRI), the Royal Navy, the DEA, the Hague Public Ministry and the various political leaders in the mainland.
"Already in the year 1995, your government on several occasions whether or not the intervention of the Minister of Justice Mr EJ Vos told us at least to address concerns of the Attorney-General Mr. JHM Zwinkels and Chief Prosecutor of the public prosecutor's Ministry Aruba mr JJ Van Eck, "Sun began reporting the Aruban politieduo to their ministers and Vos JHA Eman of General Affairs. Rasmijn Zaandam and made mention of "very bad things" would be concerned with Zwinkels. On the basis of reports from various police inspectors were Rasmijn Aruba and Zaandam with three major allegations against Zwinkels. The first case concerned a piece of the so-called "controlled by transit 'of 1000 pounds of marijuana from Aruba, for the benefit of the infiltration of a Colombian drug syndicate. Through straw men of the Justice Party would weed in Aruba offered to the Colombians, who then would ship to Canada.
The operation started in 1992 and was coordinated by Zwinkels. Justice would receive one million guilders for the party. Half of it, is informed Zwinkels to co Rasmijn would with the consent of Minister of Justice Vos in an account of the Aruban government be paid, so good for the island to make. However, it was not until 1994, just after the end of 1993 in the Netherlands IRT crisis had broken out, an amount received, namely 900,000 guilders. Zaandam in the Rasmijn and their report: "By Zwinkels prosecutor was determined that the controlled drug delivery and payment would not be writing; that of the amount collected 360,000, - for expenses incurred to the Dutch police would be paid, whereas the remaining amount Netherlands in his (Zwinkels - RZ) persoonijke bank would be paid that amount on his behalf by the intervention of staff of the CRI-Netherlands would be transferred to a secret account in England. Agents eventually would like to recover the amount one and only Mr. Zwinkels Commissioner Karsten of the Netherlands-CRI act. "
In December 1995 the Aruban government had still received no money from the deal. However, it was already half the proceeds - nearly half million - disappeared into the pockets of the two criminal infiltrators who had served Zwinkels. Chief to complain about the Rasmijn accused by Zwinkels. This gave him to understand that this is a complicated matter, which relates to the Netherlands playing IRT affair, thus requiring the futures Aruba party now would be difficult. "
That same month will Rasmijn turned to his Minister of Justice Vos. This Zwinkels denied anything ever having heard about the transaction. Vos was offended. "Only the fact that the Attorney-General (Zwinkels - RZ) did not consider it necessary to explain this to me, he is charged as such," the minister did know. Later accused the Aruban police Zwinkels 60,000 guilders to have them removed from the drug capital, which he set in its own ABN-Amro Taking would HEBEN parked.
ALSO THE SECOND the Rasmijn case and Zaandam wraakten in their report, was linked to the IRT-drama. The Aruban police noted in 1995 that some undercover agents of the Dutch police, or the BVD and the CRI, regular sums of money donated to the resident in Aruba wife of the arrested drug dealer Jack S.. The local police were completely surprised when it emerged that S., who was considered in a Dutch prison to stay at the end of 1995 suddenly appeared again in Aruba. He was sent on leave. And Zaandam will Rasmijn amazed that they are not by the Dutch Justice were informed that S. would come to Aruba.
Even greater was their surprise when they heard that the special leave for S. an action was Zwinkels. The latter gave the police chiefs over his right to mean that Van Eck S. 'is free to go and go where he wants. " And Zaandam will Rasmijn could not avoid the impression that the release of S. was exposed to the weed party for the Colombians. They felt deeply excluded.
That feeling was very strong around Christmas 1995 when they were suddenly faced with an order of Zwinkels and Van Eck that the Aruban police no activity on the day could explain for the benefit of the arrest of two drug dealers identified. Any form of action in that direction would be regarded as insubordination.
Instead, the Amsterdam police skilful leadership twenty heads a strong team from arrest to Aruba. Meanwhile, the Aruban police forbade Zwinkels also to any witnesses in a major drugs case should be heard, including former Justice Minister Rudy Croes. Van Eck Zwinkels right against Rasmijn and Zaandam: 'Shame on you realize that this witness an ex-Minister of Justice and current statenlid. You do not correspondences witnesses. Keep in mind that he as Minister of Justice could return in the next government. "
SHORT: the conclusion of Zaandam and the Rasmijn that Aruban police was kaltgestellt by Zwinkels, was certainly justified. The fear of Zwinkels to the local police in its investigations into them, their distrust fed right. It certainly appears that a mega-Zwinkels undercover operation of the Amsterdam police tried to keep secret. And that in 1995, two years after the Amsterdam Commissioner Nordholt and the Amsterdam Public Vrakking their loud disapproval had heard about the alleged infiltration method and IRT-Mayor Van Thijn was about to liquidation of the IRT Sydney / Melbourne.
This affair is quite interesting if the persistent rumors from Aruba to believe that some Dutch naval ships made available in guiding the transportation of the weed of the Colombians. That rumor seems to be motivated by the fact that Zwinkels the documents on the undercover operation to be equal to the headquarters of the Navy under Arubau brought on when the local press of the island on the matter began to call.
The Netherlands has a lot to lose in this case. That was the thrust of the letter that the Aruban former Minister of Justice Henry Croes usually very informed circles earlier this month to Prime Minister Cook sent. Croes urged them to absolute discretion in this affair. The report-The Horseman is a first step in that direction. © Rene Zwaap / De Groene Amsterdammer

   # 39 / 1996 | 25-09-1996 | Forward

Good to see you Kermit.  The Secret Service isn't very large.  We have mutual friends!

Hey, I'm just a member for a long time here.... and not one to venture too far from home....I don't understand why Kermit has to validate who he/she is to give us tidbits such as pics etc......maybe I'm just dense.....that said....I'm still here and taking it all in....guess maybe I should have ventured out and about a bit.

Oh for Heaven's sake.  You must be kidding me!   ::MonkeyLaugh:: ::MonkeyLaugh::

Secret Service agent. I never doubted that you were/are in a position better suited  than the average frog to sort this all out. ::MonkeyWink::
So I surmise that Natalee's disappearance is tied to posner (GAMBINO MAFIA/Excelsior) and with ZWINKELS providing high cover wrt Jan vds and vocking protecting pvds protecting jvds...Natalee (and Beth/Dave/Jug) never had a chance..
Wonder if jvds procured Natalee for posner or posner guest?
[/quote]
Or posner providing financial cover for pvds/jdvs?  Work with me here Kermit ::MonkeyCool::

I am thinking more along the lines of Oduber or Antionio Carlo

Kermit, so is that a YES -you ARE a Secret Service Agent?

Everybody seems so impressed, and asking if you are active.

Can you confirm or deny?

Ditto.

Waiting for Kermit to respond to a few posts now about Secret Service or not...

Kermit - I agree with 2NJ.  You shouldn't have to establish whether you are active or not, or if you are even part of the Secret Service.

I don't think Kermit should have to confirm or deny anything.
None of the rest of us have to tell who we are
Kermit has given us good information and has given good
sources.  That should be all that is necessary. IMO

I agree!   ::MonkeyCool::

from Kermit's post:
During the ceremony I was standing to the left of Clinton.
After the ceremony, inside I was downstairs next to another Secret Service agent.

Oh, that Julia is heavily involved in this has not escaped me.  She was way too quick getting to Beth for my comfort level.  I spent some time in the Shango threads, but I have formed a different opinion based on some of the Shango posts combined with some of the Ernest Merian (Simian) posts that did not quite mesh with some of the other posters over there.  I never come to SM to argue with anyone.   For me...every possiblity is still viable.

Porn videos...I agree...not much of a stretch...I think that could have been a key component.  Joran strikes me as someone who has had very little guidance in matters related to sex and the opposite sex.  He is/was someone who was left open to whatever society had to offer and teach.  Don't get me wrong...I feel little empathy for the guy.  He seems to like what he is doing now.  And that is taking everyone for a ride on this thing.  He needs to be nailed to the wall on this.  I see no other way.  Without nailing this punk to the wall there will not be any justice for Natalee.

Kermit must have felt a need to post the pics to validate who Kermit is....that was my point.  I was wondering why the need to do this....again, maybe I'm dense...yes, I may have other descriptions applied. 

Go back to where Kermit first posted tonight, page 4 I think, and you will see Kermit led in with the pictures, and through subsequent posts suggested a secret service role. I don't think anyone here requires proof with a confirmation or denial....I for one never doubted Kermit was/is in a position to provide accurate investigative info. I look forward to Kermit's posts..

[/quote]
Go back to where Kermit first posted tonight, page 4 I think, and you will see Kermit led in with the pictures, and through subsequent posts suggested a secret service role. I don't think anyone here requires proof with a confirmation or denial....I for one never doubted Kermit was/is in a position to provide accurate investigative info. I look forward to Kermit's posts..
[/quote]
Can we get back on track though and try to figure out what Kermit was trying to tell us with his latest posts? I made a couple of comments about what I thought Kermit was pointing us too wrt the cover up and the high powers involved. Anyone have other comments?

Just my opinion 2NJ, but I think this may have been in response to some posts from other monkeys who were upset with Kermit's sharing of information.  Some posts including suggestions of Kermit's line of work.  That information should have never been posted, period. 
 ::MonkeyNoNo::

Go back to where Kermit first posted tonight, page 4 I think, and you will see Kermit led in with the pictures, and through subsequent posts suggested a secret service role. I don't think anyone here requires proof with a confirmation or denial....I for one never doubted Kermit was/is in a position to provide accurate investigative info. I look forward to Kermit's posts..
[/quote]
Can we get back on track though and try to figure out what Kermit was trying to tell us with  her latest posts? I made a couple of comments about what I thought Kermit was pointing us too wrt the cover up and the high powers involved. Anyone have other comments?

[/quote]

Bump....

Bump

During the ceremony I was standing to the left of Clinton.
After the ceremony, inside I was downstairs next to another Secret Service agent.

[/quote]Secret Service agent. I never doubted that you were/are in a position better suited  than the average frog to sort this all out.
So I surmise that Natalee's disappearance is tied to posner (GAMBINO MAFIA/Excelsior) and with ZWINKELS providing high cover wrt Jan vds and vocking protecting pvds protecting jvds...Natalee (and Beth/Dave/Jug) never had a chance..
Wonder if jvds procured Natalee for posner or posner guest?

Bump (not sure if I'm doing this right, but here are the comments I made irt Kermit's posts ::MonkeyRoll::

I don't need to know who she/he is in order for me to make up my mind whether or not I believe a member or not.

Either you believe or you don't.

People might not like what I am going to say but this is how I feel so I will just say it.  Kermit please don't answer.

Something I may have missed texasmom....if I had not I would not have asked.  I thought I had read them all, but maybe I am dense...it might have gone over my head. 

Secret Service agent. I never doubted that you were/are in a position better suited  than the average frog to sort this all out.
So I surmise that Natalee's disappearance is tied to posner (GAMBINO MAFIA/Excelsior) and with ZWINKELS providing high cover wrt Jan vds and vocking protecting pvds protecting jvds...Natalee (and Beth/Dave/Jug) never had a chance..
Wonder if jvds procured Natalee for posner or posner guest?

Bump (not sure if I'm doing this right, but here are the comments I made irt Kermit's posts ::MonkeyRoll::
[/quote]
another bump from my post
Or posner providing financial cover for pvds/jdvs?  Work with me here Kermit

What we have to remember is that we have a bunch of nuts reading this site.  Nuts who do not want this case solved no matter what.  Giving a persons personal information over the internet is dangerous.  JMO.

But Michael Posner was a convicted felon who had served prison time.
He should not have been allowed on the island, let alone start a business.
Who arranged all of the business dealings.  He also bought the Aloe business.

Last week, Kermit posted a photograph of Marlon Brando as the Godfather.  Behind him, she pasted Joe Tacos picture on the attorney.  I wasn't quite sure exactly what she was saying because I already knew that Taco defended people in the mob.  Now it's making more sense.

It's also making more sense because Caps had already told us that van der Strattan, Vocking, and probably DTKM helped Paulass out the night that Natalee died.  I don't know who this Zwinkels guy is.  Van der Strattan knew Paulass from Holland where he was Urine's Godfather.  Now it appears that Oduber was also a buddy at Tillburg.  These are Paulass's connections and his support system.

I think Kermit is trying to tell us that Posner and the mob are involved with all of this.

San, I agree wholeheartedly in your position that no one has to identify themselves before they are believed.
If you look back at Kermit's posts starting on page 4, it seemed to me and others that Kermit was posting those pics to establish that she/he was a secret service agent during Richard Nixon's funeral. Nobody asked Kermit: the questions only came after Kermit "outed' her/him self.....
What I'm now interested in is trying to figure out what Kermit is pointing us towards.....
I am impressed if Kermit was/is a secret service agent, but as I've said before, I've always believed in the info Kermit has provided, regardless of who she/he is: Peace :)

Yes, absolutely....My Dad always said 'keep things close to the vest'....in this case, it's not worth jeopardizing personal info....it's nobody's business. 

I agree.....

I see you have quoted Shango.  If you are interested...I have a name that may (or may not) be of interest. I have not seem it come up anywhere in relation to Natalee yet...but. I can associate it with another name that became prominent.  And...it is a name used by Shango.  Let me know if you are interested. Your investigative experience, I am sure, far exceeds mine.

If it is true that there must be an Aruban partner to own a business on aruba, I'm thinking both CAPS and Kermit have been pointing us in that direction. Could paulass be the silent partner or in his role with contracts did he set it up for posner? If so, that could explain why pvds/jvds are so protected jmoo

I think Kermit is also trying to tell us that Posner is the money who came in and saved Aruba when it was trash and saved the economy.  Paulass, Oduber, van der Strattan, Vocking, this Zwinkels guy, and the others are all in Posner's back pocket.  If this is the case, Urine is walking on real thin ice if he starts to drop the dime on people like he did with Greta.

When I read Kermit's post the thought never crossed my mind that he/she was secret service.  I didn't take his/her post as outing themself.

Just because they said "During the ceremony I was standing to the left of Clinton.
After the ceremony, inside I was downstairs next to another Secret Service agent."

Like I said people believe what they want.  I feel uncomfortable that people are asking him/her to confirm.  Maybe they are maybe they aren't.

This is just how I feel.  I know people are going to ask.  You will never catch me asking a person who they are.  If they volunteer the information than fine.

 :smt023

I don't know if Paulus could set himself up as the silent partner since he
was doing the contracts, but he could have set up an agent, such as his law
partner.  I think criminals frequently put businesses in their attorney's name.

It does amaze me that urine hasn't been taken out yet. Maybe posner's ties with pvds for favors is so tight that urine has survived to date. But if the noose does tighten on aruba/holland, urine fate at some point may reach critical mass (bad for urine). CAPS brought over a picture the other day showing a huge limo and implied it belonged to the Kalpoes business. That would also point to money (posner) paying to keep kalpoes quiet.

Keep the dialogue going....I'm heading out for the night...G'nite, all. ::MonkeyCool::

This is what I think it is.  Someone is fronting the Sloots a lot of money.  People have said he didn't make much money.  Paulus' hands are dirty.

Yep...AC now employees paulass.....what a small ecosystem they have in aruba.

Nite 2NJSons.

goodnight 2NJSons_Mom!   ::MonkeyCool::

I agree 100%!  Kermit, nor anyone else posting in this site, should feel complelled to reveal personal info.

I take everything that I see here into account.  I do my own research, but do have my limitations in that area.  I just hope that everyone here is focused on the same goal...JUSTICE FOR NATALEE.

Posner is the money and Paulus knows where all of the skeletons
are buried.  They can't do anything to Joran because Paulus knows
too much.

I have been bumped off of SM three times in the past forty-five minutes.  WTH

Kermit posted that Posner started upgrading the Holiday In and Brickel Bay in the early 1990s.  This is also the time frame that Paulass arrived in Aruba, because Mum has been trying to figure out who he was working for when he first arrived.  Would it be too much of a stretch to assume that Paulass is Aruba's equivalent of Joe Tacopina?  Is this why Joe Taco represented Urine in the US?  It was probably free of charge or paid for by Posner.

I don't think that is too far fetched at all.  In fact, when you think about it it makes some sense.  Paulus could have done enough favores for people like Posner to keep his son out of prison.  TACO Joe is familiar with Chicago and so is Posner.  Qid Quo Pro?  Could be.

I have always thought that Posner procurred the services of Taco.
When Paulus first came to Aruba he worked as a gov't atty.
They did not like his work, so they set him up in the contracts position.
I think it was contacts with his old college buddy Oduber that brought
him to Aruba.

During the early days when Natalee first disappeared, Paulass made a trip to Florida.  Joe Taco and his partners have offices in NYC and Miami.  Did Paulass fly to Miami to get all of the ducks in a row with Taco? I now think Taco and Paulass are counterparts, and if that is the case, Paulass does have a lot of power.

Would it be too much of stretch to say that Paulass works primarily for Posner and his government jobs with Aruba are really insignificant and basically a front?  If he's a Posner atttorney he no doubt gets big bucks.

Yet, Taco has taken to referring to Paulus as a 'simpleton'.  Would that make Taco a sompleton as well?   ::MonkeyLaugh::

Who was it that said taxi drivers make more money than judge in training?  Paulass probably has bank rolls if he's a Posner attorney.

I agree that his government jobs are a front.

Posner, Taco and the boys could be getting tired of Paulass and his idiot son.  They are causing too much trouble and bringing too much attention.

Hmm..  Interesting theory.  Would Aruba continue to keep him on as an attorney then?  After all the grief his son has brought to the island? 

I remember Arubagirl always insisting Paulus didn't make much money.  Of course he didn't make much money for the job that was a front.

Yeah, I know what you mean.  I cannot think of any mob-related individuals that have been as erratic and unpredictable as the son of Paulus.

Because for some reason they refuse to move away from that house.

He doesn't have a government job anymore.  He's in a private practice with Antonio Carlo.  How convenient!!!

I meant to say ...  as the son of Paulus.

Is he licensed to practice law?  If so, does that not have some legal connatation to it?

Yeah and how convenient that he was sworn in after he left his job.  How does one get sworn in to be an attorney when he was practicing as a judge.

He was never a judge.  He had been a judge in training and spent months in Holland studying.  In March of 2005, he was turned down for a judgeship.  Did he fail the exam... I don't know.  Was he blocked because of his connections???  Anyway, he never served as a judge.

Unless paulass has the dirt on all of posners' dealings...he may very well have powerful tentacles reaching out for high cover (Kermit's post suggests?). makes one go hmmm...

I don't think paulass works for aruba anymore. Isn't he with carlos now in private practice?

Good night everyone.

Yes

I know he was a judge in training but I remember reading that he did oversee some cases.  I never believed for one second that he failed.

PG Aruba

J. H. M. Zwinkels 1994 - 1997/03/01
W.R. Rosingh 1997/03/01 - 2003/02/01 until 2003/01/01 Chief of Cabinet P.A.P.J. van der Sloot
T.D. Croes-Fernandes Pedra 2003/02/01 - pension dispute

caretaker PG:
Nico Jörg 2007/06/23 - 2008/06/23
R.F. Pietersz 2008/06/23 - 2008/12/23 (might get extended by another 6 months)


earlier i wrote that van der Sloot was Chief of Cabinet under Croes-Fernandes, this was an error.

I think Antiono Carlo has always been the front man for Posner
and Paulus.

Yes, I think he does work for Carlos now.  But, in what capacity?  Can he practice law and if so would he have to pass the bar, sotaspeak?

'Nite, San.   ::MonkeyCool::

That wasn't me but I will say goodnight now.  Unless you have ESP and were reading my mind.  ::MonkeyWink::

Lol!  I never knew I had ESP.  Now, that I know I will try to put it to good use!   ::MonkeyLaugh::

(actually, I think I'm just old!)

And a hearty Goodnite to SS!!

You are not old.  But then again I don't know that and maybe I have ESP  ::MonkeyHaHa::

FWIW, I believe I read here that cj gave paulass a letter releasing him as a suspect so he could practice law in aruba. I cant come up with links like so many of you can, but i'm hopeful that my memory may help someone else pull up the link if they so desire.   ::MonkeyConfused::

I guess old is relative.  I have an old relative.  Bwhahaha!!

Oh yeah.  I remember something like that, too.  It was like he had to have someone 'vouch' for him.

Maybe, but didn't ac have the secret meeting (Peter DV exposed) with cj stating that urine was directly involved with Natalee's disappearance but cj had to prove it? 

If you mean KJ, then yes I do believe that did happen.  Seems it was reported by Greta during the fall of 2005.

Yes, KJ...but I have see it as CJ....

that's cool.

Sometimes have wondered how Karin Janssen can sleep at night.  She doen't appear to have much compassion for victims.  It's almost as if she just does/did whatever the powers that be wanted done.  Almost as if she was some kind of puppet.

(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b258/texasmom55/Carpes3truthandjusticefornatalee.jpg)

I think we all understand why Kyle(OE) won't come to speak to Kermit or the Monkey's anymore!Thanx for the post's Kermit. ::MonkeyDance::.Is Posner "Dirtyhand"??Do those on the Persistence know who Dirtyhand is?Anyone.Am i way off???

I have always believed that Shango was referring to Jan Van Der Straaten as Dirty Hand based on the confirmations he provided to some posters back during that time.

Is Van Der Straten Dirty Hand???


Babalú Says: June 27th, 2005 at 12:30 am
Concerned: No, I guess he is head of some local official corps. He is the guy that knows everything and that has been in the house of Babylonians NOT seeking pleasure for himself, so Shango says. So maybe he went to search for Natalee and he is the chief of Polis.


Shango on June 27th, 2005 12:28 pm
Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon with his
12:30 AM posting

Shango on June 27th, 2005 4:00 am
Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon with his 12:30 posting

Shango on June 27th, 2005 12:12 pm
Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon with his
12:30 AM posting
If the cowboys do not find the loot today, it will not be found

Shango on June 27th, 2005 12:26 pm
Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon with his
12:30 AM posting
Simian your Doppleganger is with us

Shango on June 27th, 2005 12:28 pm
Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon with his
12:30 AM posting

Shango on June 27th, 2005 9:44 pm
Babalu opened a window looking into babylon on his 12:31 A.M. Post
DirtyHand is alive

Shango on June 27th, 2005 9:48 pm
Babalu knew who dirty hand was at half past 12

drax on June 27th, 2005 10:57 pm
DirtyHand has walked through the maze:…is DirtyHand Poppa VDS?

Shango on June 27th, 2005 11:01 pm
The Drax asks a question for which he already provided an answer.

Shango on June 27th, 2005 11:04 pm
Babalu opened a window looking onto Babylon with his 12:30 A.M. post

drax on June 27th, 2005 11:08 pm
Shango says: The Drax asks a question for which he already provided an answer.
I don’t understand, Shango.

Babalú on June 27th, 2005 11:10 pm
He’s talking about Dirty Hands identity, please refer to my post of yesterday 12:30 AM. He is JVDS, and not Joran.

Lucy on June 27th, 2005 10:56 pm
Someone said last night that Dirty Hand was somebody in the police.

Shango on June 27th, 2005 11:13 pm
Lucy spoke at 10:56


Shango on June 30th, 2005 2:04 am
Observe all communications from Shango and judge from their worth….
DirtyHand is the the Keystone!
The lamb is in ther fold, and the shivas.
Threadsurfers, if they cannot out a lamb to manger, how will they deal with lions?
DirtyHand is the key and may leave soon to avoid attention from the cowboys and the fort


Shango on June 30th, 2005 2:31 am
Watcher opened a window looking onto babylon at 2:29.
He holds the key to the ONLY door which opens the door to the lions den


(watcher on June 30th, 2005 2:29 am
I think Subdude is on the right track about the media putting pressure on WHY the polis chief is leaving.)

I may be way off but i try to equate "Dirtyhand" with the Character "Michael Clayton" played by George Clooney in the movie of the same name.He was "The FIXER" for a huge law firm.If you've seen the movie  it is quite interesting.Who besides Van Der Stratten has there Hand in everything on that Island,as well as the power to fix it???Truthseeker??

I have always thought vd Straten was Dirty Hand.

Thanx Anna!Other then protecting a friend(Paulus).What reason would Van Der stratten have for protecting these nimwits??One would think Van Der Stratten would have serious reasons to help cover-up a murder.

When referring to 'Dirty Hand' I always go back to Shango.  Shango initiated the term and I rely on those posts.

I have not seen the George Clooney movie you mention.  Sorry.  Not much of a Clooney fan.

Over time, I have thought Jan vds, Obuder, rudy, vocking could all be dirty hand, but from Kermit's recent post, is he saying Zwinkels? he is in power, then busted, then back in power....posner saves aruba in the 80's 90's, and all the time Zwinkels comes in and out smelling like a rose. Is zwinkels the front man for posner? Is zwinkels Dirty Hand?

FIRST LET'S CONNECT THESE PLAYERS INVOLVED IN CORRUPTION IN ARUBA:
Paulus van der Sloot
Jan van der Straaten
Zwinkels
Vocking


Zaandam keeps on saying in his book, two days after 5/29, the body of Natalee H. may have already been foundand Cvp [police commissioner] looked the other way to do a favour for Paul vd Sloot (ex of chief staff of Cabinet PG [prosecutor general] J. Zwinkels).
Posted by Getagrip at 9/19/2005 12:18:00 PM

Remember ZWINKELS:

Paulus buddy from the old Tilburg days is the Prime Minister - Oduber 1991

and ZWINKELS WAS ATTORNEY GENERAL IN 1991 (we also know that this zwinkels guy was involved in mafia money too and that is why he was forced to resign for a period of time -


All the main players knew each other during his time in office
Governmental authorities
Mr. J.H.M. Zwinkels - Attorney General
Mr. B. Vocking - Deputy Director, Aruba Correctional Institute
Ms. C. van den Berg - Head of the Rehabilitation and Child Welfare Council
Ms. Y. Spellen - Director, Guardianship Board
Mr. J. van de Straten - Head of the National Bureau of Investigations

Zwinkels is back in power as attorney general in 1994

In 1995 Zwinkels is the Prosecutor in Aruba.


1997-1997 - Zwinkels left after a 2 yr battle with the Aruban gov't (they accused him of stealing drug money)


July of 1998 he has his Attorney General job back 07-07-98



June 26th, 2005 at 3:30 pm
Simian,
his lordship did not bring the key for the Arawaks
"they were stymied by misinformation and false leads planted by the corrupt authorities. Why was Natalee never found? The searchers were directed to all the wrong places!

(more on this later)

Do we know who directed the searchers billb???I believe there is someone hiding in plain site that hold's the key.JMOO

Keepthefaith...Good question...No, I don't know who directed the searches...I assumed KJ as prosecutor was responsible and directed the searches....but some one else may have. 

I always thought Dompig directed the searches?????????????

I read Kermit's posts.So Zwinkels is still a person of great power in Aruban circles?Is he still on the island??

I believe they replaced VDStratten with Dompig for a couple days then VDStratten was brought back on.By whose request.These are probably repetitive questions..Sorry..

I read Kermit's posts.So Zwinkels is still a person of great power in Aruban circles?Is he still on the island??
[/quote]
Maybe CAPS can answer, or one of our Dutch posters?... Or maybe he is the cover from Holland that Beth and Jug worried about when they said there must be high cover from Holland?

Jan vds was the lead in the beginning. Then there was a question of his impartiality wrt his close ties to paulass and was pulled off by (?kj's boss or rudy?) but then the police union made a stink and jan vds was back on. Interesting though, when dompig replaced jan vds, the confession came out and one of the suspects (urine, kalpoe?) was leading police to Natalee's body). Next day, when Jan vds was back on the case....there was no confession and no body..

If you are into Shango you may see more than just favors for Paulus.  This may go ever further that just Poppa Sloot.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:32 pm
His lordship is there to preserve babylon
not the elder
remember dirtyhand!

I have never visited the Shango/Simian threads......but early on before the threads were started, I'd read them here and still feel there was truth in some of the original posts.....
Fast forwarding to today and Kermits post, I could think the shango post above could mean:
His lordship (posner) is there to preserve babylon aruba underworld
not the elder paulass
remember dirtyhand! (Zwinkels)
by preserving Babylon, paulass and urine would be under the umbrella of protection by posner...
if this is anywhere close to the truth, then whatever happened to Natalee must be viewed by those covering this up as too violent for disclosure......

Not too far fetched.  You could be right.  I guess the key to many of the Shango posts would require the correct definition of Babylon.  What are they really trying to preserve? 

(I still have to go with Van Der Straaten as Dirty Hand.  I'm not sure Zwinkel had the degree of authority as Shango implies.  Not the Zwinkel isn't a player in this whole thing...somewhere down the line.)

I also think CAPS has implied that Natalee was caught up in a drug deal gone bad (wrong place, wrong time - still, violent death caused by jdvs and pimps) and the events surrounding her death can't be exposed without exposing aruba's underbelly....if exposed, aruban tourism would suffer even further loses....

Okay...I can buy into the exposure of what really happened to Natalee issue for Aruba.  But, in this day in age would a drug deal really be that unusual?  There are drug deals going on everywhere, not just Aruba. Many people that have been there know that drugs are plentiful.  While Aruba may be 'embarassed' by something like that would it really be the 'end of tourism'?

after leaving as Aruba as PG:

1st March 1997  procureur-general in Leeuwarden.
18th January 1999 Judge Higher Court Leewarden
currently: Judge Higher Court Arnhem

http://www.burojeugdzorg.nl/46.htm Z
http://jure.nl/bg6071 (random case, scroll down for his name - raadsheer = judge higher court)

i haven't found any direct connection Zwinkels <> van der Sloot

Zwinkels has his fingers in a lot.This article as well states that nothing happens in Aruba without the Mansur's knowing.What role do they play??Just questions.

http://www.tni.org/archives/tblick/aruba.htm

Isn't Arnhem where the Van Der Sloots are from and also where Joran went when he got ou of jail and left Aruba?

Maybe you can give us more insight to this article caesu.From your standpoint.

http://www.tni.org/archives/tblick/aruba.htm

Good questions.  I have always been a bit conflicted about the Mansurs in this case.  Jossy really seems to want to help, but they de appear to be power players on the island.  Seems they would be able to 'get the scoop' from someone.

I know it may seem far-fetched...just throwing it out there as I think CAPS referred to it at one time.
With Natalee disappearance coupled with drug activity...those who covered this up just wanted everything to go away, and in that sense Natalee became a casualty of the situation....

Well, until the truth is revealed...nothing is too far fetched!   ::MonkeyCool::

I was just thinking (typing) out loud.  I didn't mean to totally discount that at all.  All options are still on the table.

I gotta give it up for tonight.  Hope to see ya back at it tomorrow!   ::MonkeyCool::

Thanx Truthseeker.Till tomorrow...

No offense taken Truthseeker2...we are all here for Natalee....it is good that we can all be sounding boards for each other, and I'm always amazed when comments may nudge Monkey investigators on that may contribute to finding Justice for Natalee...I always believe the cup is half full, and the truth will be revealed.....

yes it is. but there are only 5 higher courts in The Netherlands.
one higher court covers a large part of the country.
http://www.rechtspraak.nl/Gerechten/Gerechtshoven/

i do find Zwinkels interesting. because he was PG of Aruba during and after the IRT-affair.
Aruba had his own Cargo-affair.
in short it is police officers getting rich of under cover drug-smuggling operation.
instead of cathing the drug-smuggers they stayed longer undercover then needed - to get rich of it.
there is tons of information about this.
with conspiracy theories going as high up as possible - and if you really get into it, it goes back to colonial crimes by Dutch military in Indonesia.

but i haven't found a link between Zwinkels and Van der Sloot.
however the Cargo-affair is linked to Henny Eman and Watty Vos (AVP Government in middle 90s).
in fact it is suggested that the Cargo-affair was used by Eman / Vos to get rid of Zwinkels.
also links to Hendrik Croes, brother of Rudy Croes and former Justice Minister (early 90s).
but it gets very shady around all that. most of it is in the Groene Amsterdammer articles.
http://www.groene.nl/1996/26/De_aruba-missie_van_docters_van_leeuwen/11
http://www.groene.nl/1996/48/Een_tikkeltje_te_wild_amigo/8
http://www.groene.nl/1996/49/Braaf_aruba
http://www.groene.nl/1996/40/De_arubaanse_beerput_is_niet_meer_te_dempen/9
http://www.groene.nl/1997/34/Arubas_status_aparte_is_bloedrood/5

Good night all: caesu, Keepthefaith, truthseeker2, johan555 and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

Goodnight Billb... ::MonkeyDance::

(http://www.korps-politie-suriname.com/nieuws/nieuwsbronnen%20internationaal/archief%20nieuwsbronnen%20internationaal/2006/2006-11-nieuwsbronnen-internationaal/11-02-overleg.jpg)

ORANGE CITY (25-08-06) 

The Netherlands will soon send agents at his own expense to the disappearance of Natalee Holloway to investigate. The National Police Services in the Netherlands (KLPD) at the request of Justice Minister Rudy Croes (MEP), Aruba helping with the case of American teen. Croes has also asked Interpol the file from end to end, said Amigoe.

More than a year ago Holloway disappeared during a school trip. All that time is working on the case, without a trace of the girl is found. A week ago, Minister Croes sent a letter to The Hague with a request for help. He hopes that with police assistance from the Netherlands there is a quicker solution to the unsolved mystery. "Aruba is alive along with the parents and close family, despite the negative campaign against the island is implemented," Croes writes in the letter.

(http://www.korps-politie-suriname.com/nieuws/nieuwsbronnen%20internationaal/archief%20nieuwsbronnen%20internationaal/2006/2006-08-nieuwsbronnen-internationaal/08-25-johan-remkes.jpg)

The request was made to Minister Johan Remkes (VVD) of Home Affairs and the Minister for Overseas Territories, Atzo Nicolaï (VVD). The Force will be in response to request the full charge of the investigation given. Police officers of the Dutch corps are also on special order to investigate the matter. The Netherlands will also pay the costs that are involved with the commitment and the residence of these agents in Aruba. Furthermore they get here the decision on a location from which they can work on the case. The police may carry a weapon and use it, and get detection power. Also, they provide the relevant information from the file-Holloway and gives them access to all information systems.

The letter promises that the Dutch Minister Croes agents receive the full cooperation of the (search) authorities and the Board. The letter indicates that Croes also has made a formal request to Interpol for the dossier on the roughness by lights. "At the request of the Attorney-General seeks Interpol now has not by the FBI (U.S. Federal police, ed) released data in the case to get the top table," the minister writes in the letter.

The Public Prosecutor (OM) acknowledge to be aware of the request, but stressed that it does not come from Attorney General Theresa Croes-Fernandes Pedra, but of the Minister of Justice itself. Interpol in July he would have asked for help when he visited the headquarters of the international police organization in the French city of Lyon.

The OM is also aware of cooperation between forces from the Netherlands and Aruba and police reports that this level is regulated and there is no request from the PPS is done. "The criminal investigation into the Holloway case is still open. If the Dutch police can offer assistance, they are certainly welcome, "says officer Mariaine Croes. (Source Amigoe)

Thanks caesu...This is what I was looking for yesterday when I asked about Zwinkels.

From memory of previous discussions and checking on Paulus, he took the job as Lands Advokaat with the Aruban Goverment for 5 years. This takes us to 1994/1995.

The government then wanted him to do only contracts. He took another job.

We find that when Remkes nominated him to be a Judge in Training he was Private Secretry to the Procurer-General.

Is this the job he took in 1994/1995?

Is so...He worked for Zwinkels...I think??

Doesn't Zaandam's quote say Paulus was Chief of Staff under Zwinkles?

Nixon died in 1994.

Randy Habibe and Jossy Arends were indicted (but not extradited) in 1993 for The LaCosta Cartel scandal.

Clinton starts crackdown on illicit drug trade 1996.

If everything was simple...Joran was in big trouble...Paulus very well could have asked connected people for help.  None of them would have wanted the FBI open door policy. 

The mob can leave "suicides" with hands in the pocket, as a message....or when they just want something to disappear...cement shoes.

In this case, maybe they placed Natalee in the large cage and then pushed it off one of their boats/ships. (which is the way Kyle described the finding).

Their problem is not Natalee's demise but the actual removal...a simple favor run amuck..

or

Natalee was targeted and there is a lot of seedy old men...and some prune faced women involved.

billb

IIRC  Paulus asked for review of the dossier.  When KJ replied to the request, she said no because you are not a suspect, so you are not entitled to view the dossier.  Paulus then used that letter to get his law license.

What video has been removed this one?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/23302471#23302581

Yes I do see you. ::MonkeyWink::

i don't know i think another one

Was trying to read up on Zwinkels.  One thing interesting...during the crack down on drugs, in the early 90s, it was said that Dutch lawyers flocked to the island (in 1992).  Makes me wonder about Paulus's whole purpose in going to Aruba.  Maybe his whole intent was to work for and defend the connected.

I don't know if this is any relation to Zwinkels, but there is a Helena Zwinkels residing in Aruba according to the white pages.

Zwinkels Helena M     
 
San Barbola 78
   588-9269

http://www.arubayp.com/whitesearch.html?ListingAgentFormat=eSUPE&name=zwinkels&Submit=Search&group1=Person
 

Hi Buckeye...I have been trying for ages to look at Zwinkels...same old problem...it is so time consuming to trnslte from Dutch to English.

This one is about the Cargo affair and 2 cops are mentioned.

In the Netherlands was particularly super-prosecutor A. Docters van Leeuwen die in grote woede ontstak over de indiscrete rapportages van de Arubaanse politie. Docters van Leeuwen in great anger about the indiscreet ontstak reports of the Aruban police. Rasmijn en Zaandam moesten weg. Rasmijn and Zaandam had gone. De commissie-De Ruiter drong in zijn rapport ook aan op ontslag voor de beide politieagenten. The committee-The Horseman in his report also called for dismissal of the two policemen. Maar daar wil Aruba niet aan, blijkt uit een gesprek dat De Groene Amsterdammer een dag na de ondertekening van het rijksbesluit met Eman voerde in zijn Haagse hotel. But that does not want to Aruba, an interview that De Groene Amsterdammer a day after the signing of the empire act by Eman Hague claimed in his hotel.

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=nl&u=http://www.groene.nl/1996/49/Braaf_aruba&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=4&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3DZwinkels%2Baruba%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DG

Mum,
I think this may be the same article.

Oops...Sorry TM....

Do you know if the Investigation Group in Aruba - Lans...something...LOL...is the same as the National Bureu of Investion there?  I can place van der Straten there as early as 1994.  TIA

I think there is more than one Dirty Hand depending on who the source is.  Uncle Jan van der Strattan was definitely a Dirty Hand and that is who the codetalkers seem to describe.  Our friend also told us about Frans Deutekom who we refer to as DTKM.  Supposedly he was sent to keep an eye on everything and clean up after Rudy Croes.  He is referred to as the behavior specialist and he is very powerful behind the scenes.  Posner would certainly be another Dirty Hand because of his mob power.

No problem Mum, just wanted you to have the full translated article if you wanted it.

Yes, I think someone (maybe Caesu) posted that earlier in relation to Van der Straten.  Can't put my finger on it yet, but I believe it is the same position.

DirtyHand.....and dirty hand:

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:42 pm
Arawaks hold singing card from babylon
There is also a trio. One Babylonian. 2 Shivas.
Arawaks can’t let babylonian Card sing because hand holding (Arawak) it dirty too.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:01 pm
Arawaks often go to play in small houses of Babylon with the offspring of the Elders
game, pg 4:    http://www.ca11.uscourts.gov/opinions/ops/200214306.pdf
          pg 7:   excerpt-
"Pipkins entertained members of a municipal police force at his home on at least one occasion,
where they engaged in sexual intercourse with his prostitutes."  (worried about teepees)
.........what did Babalu say!!!???

Babalú Says: June 27th, 2005 at 12:30 am
Concerned: No, I guess he is head of some local official corps. He is the guy that knows everything and that has been in the house of Babylonians NOT seeking pleasure for himself, so Shango says. So maybe he went to search (TO PLAY) for Natalee and he is the chief of Polis. (DirtyHand is the link-holds the real key!)



Shango Says:June 26th, 2005 at 9:19 pm
DirtyHand is not an Arawak (Babylonian)

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 8:25 pm
The Arawaks (dirty hand) want the truth to come out
As long as DirtyHand (the link! he holds the real key) is not found

Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 12:23 am
Follow the note$
to the poison house (need key)
where the children of the babylonians (play (game) in the maze)
and the arawak nation (dirty hands)
meet, under cover of delusion. (meet....to trade....dangerous to trade among arawak)
In the maze
the lions which play
shall be found.
The gamblers also took note.   ($$$)
Tell the cowboys! 


Shango:
Why did the girl owe money?

OK...Thanks TM...Here is the link to what I found and may be what Kermit cited.  The list of names is right down...almost to the bottom.

http://www.cpt.coe.int/documents/nld/1996-27-inf-eng-1.htm

Caesu...Some old discussions from May...Just in case you might want to refresh what you were looking at back then.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2830.280

Carlos Severino Tromp points to Ruud Rosingh as being corrupt...Do we know what he is doing or where he is?  TIA

BBL....Spent a lot of time over the last few months looking into all these "dots"...Maybe some will connect!

coverups begin with the elders and the founders of the houses of babylon

"audition" the singing card:
http://www.visitaruba.com/facts/newsdesk/backissues/newsletter55.html#story9

DirtyHand knows
so does the elder
(in the fold of "The Arawak King"-lowly minions)

Hi COLOMBO...Recall a post of Rob's in Shango that there are at least 5 Dirty Hands...depending on Capitalization and word structure. Do you recall what he posted?  TIA

ALL the arawaks know the maze which plays the poison songs

maze difficult for supposed guilty, even if innocent

the maze which plays the poison songs

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:30 pm
Who knows what song the elder will sing (poison song):
 
(who did NH owe?)
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:31 pm
The shivas knew the girl
the arawaks new the girl
and the babylonians still know the girl

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:22 pm
Because the fallen judge agreed, he can sing any song he wants (what a judge does!)
A poisonou$ siren in the halls of babylon

poison song:
Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:27 pm
The elder had to come clean. He knows what damage he had caused. The Simian said to not shake the wire, ‘cause the bird would fly away.
The Simian would never pose. Go back and read what the Simian wrote. The Babylonians knows what happened, but they are up in arms. The gamblers knew the girl. 

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:53 pm
The Simain thinks that Babalú is clueless about who the Babylonians are. The Simian thinks that is really funny.
The Simian will make an exception and answer: The gamblers knew the girl.

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 11:37 pm
How can so many gamblers be wrong about the girl? This is unbelievable. (took note)

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:36 pm
All that the gamblers knew was written down. They knew the girl. She spent her nights at their tables.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRK-CQVQevQ

Wow.  This thing goes really deep in Aruba.  Thanks for the links.  I will spend some time looking through all of tha information.

As a pure coincidence, and to pique your natural Shango curiosity just a bit, Leeuwen in Dutch means Lions.

Docters van Leeuwen was born in The Hague. After studying law (degree 1969) and various functions for the Dutch government, he became head of the Domestic Security Service, the Dutch secret service (currently the AIVD), in 1989.  In 1995, he was succeeded by Nico Buis, after Docters van Leeuwen became a member and chairman of the Board of Procurators General in The Hague (a board which supervises Dutch public prosecutors).


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Docters_van_Leeuwen

O/T  New thread http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4250.msg582642#msg582642

Please post any unusual recipes you have tried and liked.  Thanks!

In the maze, the lions which play will be found
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRK-CQVQevQ

Babylon holds the answers:
http://www.visitaruba.com/facts/newsdesk/backissues/newsletter55.html#story9

Note:  that excerpt is from the link you posted, Colombo.  The article is from 2001.

At the AHATA General Assembly
New Chairman Alfonso Riveroll makes an excellent speech
A.M. Digital
12/05/2005

The Radisson Aruba Resort & Casino hosted the Aruba Hotel & Tourism Association General Assembly last week. On the assembly’s agenda: the election of the new board with Chairman Alfonso Riveroll at the helm.

Riveroll, the owner of the Wyndham Aruba Resort Spa & Casino was visibly excited to assume the leadership of Aruba’s most important association



snip


At the end of his presentation, Riveroll reflected a bit on the most unprecedented level of media attention, Aruba has received in the past six month, most of it negative.

“Our image,” he said, “has certainly been tarnished and AHATA has been at the forefront with ATA, ATIA, Government, Chamber of Commerce and local business leaders, teaming up with a common purpose, to preserve the island’s image and minimize the impact of the Holloway disappearance. We have fared well, but we need to face such challenges with bold and fast actions,” he stated.

Oops...Forgot to include the link:

http://tinyurl.com/5t39dk

same guy?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-d16Jlzj_o&feature=related
http://www.visitaruba.com/facts/newsdesk/backissues/newsletter55.html#story9

(see youtube "info")

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2008/11/07/latest-on-peter-r-de-vries-tv-show-this-sunday-on-disappearance-of-natalee-holloway-in-aruba-joran-van-der-sloot-evolution-of-a-sociopath/
excerpt:
During talks at a hotel he says now that he can make weekly young women. The visas and passports are no problem, he claims. “I rule that all, do not worry!” Formally, the girls, who think dancer to be, in our country training. In reality, they six days a week working in a brothel.
‘Typical’


question: does JVDS always "have money to gamble?" or is that his compensation?

Thanks Buckeye....
Yep....I lean toward seedy old men...something bad happened...paulass calls in favors that end up running amuck....

if he is to reign anew he can be soiled no more

aside: wasn't "the board" contolling the investigation?

Arawak Hunters did not bumble, but dance the dance as the elders pull transparent strings.

Controlling the investigation?  Yeah, probably...from behind the scenes.  Riveroll is at the head of the board of AHTA in December 2005.

The connection between Joran, the Radisson and the Wyndham as related to the events of 5/29 through 5/31 now appear to begin before Natalee disappeared.  If you buy into anything Joran had to say recently to Greta, he contacted a guy at the Radisson about delivering a blonde girl before he goes to CnC's.  When Beth and Jug arrive at his house during the early morning hours of 5/31, the story given is that Joran and Deepak are at the Wyndham...Joran then, in statements to polis after he is arrested, makes reference to the Radisson during that period.  Those two casinos are very close to each other.

As for Shango:

Riveroll

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:43 pm
Did the babylonians like to make movies?
From the tears, a new river will spring forth….

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:31 pm
Mary never heard the buoy toll
ask the men who play dice and “roll”   (Shango has roll in quotes here.)

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:37 pm
The DiceMen must be questioned.
They to go to the Music and enter the same Maze
Mary who was not a virgin entered
The DiceMen ROLLED
Mary ROLLED

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:41 pm
Mary ROLLED through the Maze
There is more than one house of music
the Lamb is a Scapegoat

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:42 pm
The Lamb returned to the fold
Mary Rolled
And the lions played


I have found articles from Aruba that spell the name as Riverol and Riveroll.

interesting tributary of thought....hasn't been in the mainstream.....yet anyways

(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d118/Sanddrops/Riveroll.jpg)

Very interesting.

So the codetalker "ask the gamblers who 'roll'" are the gamblers who are invited to Riveroll's parties?

Does Riveroll have a son Joran's age?

Anyone have the email for Ruben's father, what an ass? Aldo Ravioli has put himself in this story. He' put on the clown outfit and I need to write him.

What "disappearance?"

Nothing about the confirmed dead, murder, heavy battery, premeditation?

Is he putting a hit out on the van der sloots?

men who play dice & roll......other 'rollers' talk
http://www.myspace.com/dicemen

The Dicemen aim for total world domination. But if that's aiming too high this irresistible trio will be satisfied by making a lot of shows by spilling blood, sweat, and tears. Their own special blend of psychobilly is influenced by punk rock, rock & roll, rockabilly, hardcore, and death metal. The band is currently touring around Europe to infect poor innocent souls with their dirty power rock'n roll. As long as it stinks like sweat, tastes like beer and innocent girls fall to their knees when hearing the straight from the heart music, these Dicemen will conquer!

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:05 pm
The dice throwers know
the maze of the rave
and the fly that entered the trap
DirtyHand is the key
He walks in many circles

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:37 pm
The DiceMen must be questioned.
They to go to the Music and enter the same Maze
Mary who was not a virgin entered
The DiceMen ROLLED
Mary ROLLED

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:52 pm
DirtyHand has walked through the maze
He knows of the forbidden fruit
and the gardeners

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:57 pm
All know of the music
beckoning lost souls
to enter the seven levels of inferno

Heres what he is doing...... ::MonkeyEek::
(http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h294/gummy_2006/slootbusiness.jpg)

he was Landsadvocaat during the first part of the Zwinkels period.
Landsadvocaat represents the Government.

in a newspaper article posted bij Johan555 it reads that Van der Sloot worked arrived in Aruba in 1991.
http://forum.fok.nl/topic/1132052/1/25#57148989
he worked first as Landsadvocaat but the he was 'too honest' in view of the Government (his words).
so the Government let him write contracts instead.

he worked for the Government for 5 years. that would bring us to 1996/1997.
that was the time when Zwinkels left and Rosingh became PG.
then he became chief of cabinet for the PG.

so that would mean Van der Sloot has been chief of cabinet for Rosingh for Rosingh's entire term as PG.
and Van der Sloot never worked for Zwinkels. it is even possible that he worked against Zwinkels, as the Eman Government wanted to oust Zwinkels - and a Landsadvocaat represents the Government.

however for the last part of his time working for the Government he only prepared these contracts - so at that time when the Cargo-Affair came to light and Zwinkels was ousted Van der Sloot was not Landsadvocaat.

Caesu...Not sure if it makes a lot of difference or not, but Johan and I tossed this around a few months back, about when the van der Sloots arrived in Aruba.

I am absolutely sure it was not 1991. The interview that Anita gave after the Februry DeVries show in support of Lorenzo may have been where I first saw 1990. I worked the math on different things I had, and came up with 1990. I even considered 1989. In my mind from what I went over then I am positive it was not 1991.

Mum,

Were you going by Joran's birth year?  88 or 89? 

Well, it's clearly a partnership.  Huh.  So Paulus does in fact practice law on some level in Aruba.

Who's is benefiting from what in this relationship??Antonio or Paulus?Remember Antonio was going to clear his conscious to KJ...Now Paulus is his partner?

Dirty Hand could well be the corruption itself and refer to whichever corrupt official is in charge of any given situation.

Just a thought. . .


.

Remember Paulus was given a Letter of Commendation from Karin Janssen stating he was not a suspect, was of good character, etc. and that is all it took for him to be able to be instated to the bar.

Also didn't Aruba Girl once post that he had also taught law at the Aruban University? 

We do have photos of Paulus being sworn into the bar, in his black robes, etc.  He has also since then received a public warning from Jorg I think it was about his unbecoming activities with regard to publicity in Natalee's case.

Joran turned 18 years old in 2005 ... following the disappearance of Natalee Holloway.

I believe that would make his birthdate ... 1987.

Janet

+++++++

NANCY GRACE
Who Is Fourth Man Behind Bars in Holloway Case
Aired August 29, 2005 - 20:00:00   ET

JUG TWITTY: Well, I hope they haven`t. I mean -- but you know, the way this whole investigation`s going it seems that way. You know, what I wish, Nancy, is I wish what should have happened in this thing is Paul Van Der Sloot should have been a man, he should have stepped forward in the beginning. He should have talked to Joran that night. They should have admitted that something went wrong out there, which I know he knows that happened.

And if he would have come forward and said Joran did this, it`s a terrible mistake, it`s an accident, he`s still underage, he`s a minor, even if they killed Natalee he probably would have gotten off with about five years. Paul could have held -- kept his job, and we could have gone on with our lives, you know, or whatever.

But this guy, Paul Van Der Sloot is so thick in this thing it`s unbelievable. And you know, my mission is to keep pressure for them to keep asking questions of Paul because he knows more than he`s saying.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0508/29/ng.01.html

Colombo - I'm heading over to the codtalker thread if you care to join me.

http://www.radionetherlands.nl/news/zijlijn/6093768/Dutch-Antilles-politicians-criticise-Dutch-PM

(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/Palus%20Van%20Der%20Sloot/88401417_e2f2a3b84c_m.jpg)

Wednesday, January 18, 2006
Paul Van Der Sloot Sworn In
Paul Van Der Sloot, once held in connection with the disappearance of an Alabama teenager was cleared on of suspicion in the case last November and has now been installed in the capacity of a lawyer on the island. Paul van der Sloot entered the courthouse yesterday to present his application to the “raad van toezict”
(Supervisory Commission) and the members of the Aruban Lawyers Association. The commission, together with the lawyers association reviewed his application and attached documents, concluding that he satisfied the qualifications to be accepted as an active lawyer working on the island of Aruba. (Aruba Today)

(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/Palus%20Van%20Der%20Sloot/88401419_2cde7321ae_m.jpg)

(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/Palus%20Van%20Der%20Sloot/88401418_3f48ea511a_m.jpg)
He had wanted to be a judge, but that did not quite work out (and I have heard a few reasons why and still don't understand why.) He is now sworn in as a lawyer and working with his son's lawyer in the law firm. - Greta Van Susteren



Remember this is a guy who apparently taught his son how to hide a body and made statements about, well if there is no body, there is no crime. I might agree that at this point they can‘t prove the case beyond a reasonable doubt, but...you have to be an idiot to think this father has no involvement in this case. - Wendy Murphy



(Photos: Diario Aruba)

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://static.flickr.com/24/88401418_3f48ea511a_m.jpg&imgrefurl=http://joranvandersloot.blogspot.com/2006/01/paul-van-der-sloot-sworn-in-paul-van.html&usg=__TZr-k1lnGWnUX6xw7YRDvrSveQg=&h=180&w=240&sz=22&hl=en&start=4&sig2=by0jPFBOIUsPSLVvZ3LMlQ&tbnid=s2s-4yC_-lRWYM:&tbnh=83&tbnw=110&ei=jZRFSbWyJJqatwfH__HbCA&prev=/images%3Fq%3DPaulus%2Bvan%2Bder%2B%2BSloot%2Bbeing%2Bsworn%2Bin%26gbv%3D2%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DG

http://www.amigoe.com/artman/publish/artikel_50487.php

Google translation:

(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b258/texasmom55/MISC5/12142008AmigoeCHUPACartera.jpg)

Are there other countries where the tourism industry is a department of the government?



http://www.aruba.com/about/aboutus.php

The Aruba Tourism Authority is a government department funded by public funds. It has led the tourism marketing activities for over 50 years, diversifying markets and intensifying its activities in the marketplace. As the organization functions under government regulations in a private sector environment, it lobbies for more flexibility and independence in implementing its marketing plan.   

The Aruba Tourism Authority shares the government's macro-economic objective in further stimulating tourism as its key economic activity. Aruba Tourism Authority's general marketing objective is to invest in markets and in marketing activities, which will result in an increase of stay-over visitors. To achieve this objective, the Aruba Tourism Authority works to stimulate the interest of  visitors in defined markets, encouraging them to choose Aruba for their holidays, meetings, incentives and conventions.

The Aruba Tourism Authority's scope of responsibilities in the continuous successful development of Aruba's tourism industry is reflected in various success stories in the history of tourism and, in particular, in the annual increase of visitor, occupancy, expenditure and room nights. The main purpose of the Aruba Tourism Authority is to function as a leader in all forms of marketing, and promotion, online and offline, tourist information and customer service, sponsorship and organization of special events and hosting of partners, media, agents and special guests.

VISION
 
"A second home that fulfills dreams and inspires happiness and unity for all. ATA is a family achieving excellence in tourism through love, dedication and professionalism.
We are a team strengthening Aruba as the top destination in the world."

 
 
MISSION
 
"To position Aruba as a preferred tourism destination in the Caribbean by excelling in quality service and teamwork"
 

Industry Partners include:
Aruba Hotel & Tourism Association - www.ahata.com
Caribbean Tourism Organization - www.onecaribbean.org
World Tourism Organization - www.world-tourism.org
World Travel & Tourism Council - www.wttc.org

The tourism industry, both worldwide as in Aruba, has grown tremendously in volume and activity. The Aruba Tourism Authority now has offices or representation in the following countries:

Aruba: Head Office
Europe: Belgium, Netherlands, Germany, Austria, Switzerland, Finland, Sweden, Norway, Denmark, United Kingdom, Ireland and Spain
N. America: Canada, USA
S. America: Argentina, Brazil, Colombia, Venezuela
Caribbean: Puerto Rico, Curacao

Click here for addresses and contact information of our representative offices around the world.
 
 
 

The Netherlands, like most other European countries, has very strict gun
control laws. Nonetheless, the Dutch murder rate is almost six times as
great as the United States' overall homicide rate.


> An estimated 5,981 people -- an average of 16 a day -- were killed by their doctors without their consent… And these numbers do not measure
> several other groups that are put to death involuntarily: disabled infants, terminally ill children, and mental patients. [Notice that Hitler
> began his genocidal programs with these groups, not Jews, Gypsies, or other ethnic minorities.]
> …The path to the death culture began when doctors learned to think like accountants. As the cost of socialized medicine in the Netherlands grew,
> doctors were lectured about the climbing cost of care. In many hospitals, signs were posted indicating how much old-age treatments cost taxpayers


5981 murders per year ("putting someone to death involuntarily," in the
absence of a conviction and sentence for a capital crime, is the
definition of murder) in a population of about 15.5 million equals a
rate of 38.6 murders per 100,000.

United States' homicide (murder, manslaughter, justifiable homicide)
rate = 6.62 homicides per 100,000. The Dutch murder rate is therefore
5.8 times the United States' homicide rate.

 
The Wall Street Journal article points out, by the way, that Holland was
the only Nazi-occupied country in which doctors universally ignored or
disobeyed Nazi orders to euthanize patients. It looks like European
socialized medicine succeeded where Gestapo coercion failed. Sieg Heil!

Yes Blonde.  Paulass did teach law classes at the university.  In Shango/Simian there was confusion for a while as to who was late for school the next morning.  Urine was on time for school.  Paulass was the one who was late for his class.

Hi 2NJS...No I was not making sense of some things that Johan was posting regarding Paulus' employment record. I searched around the archives and googled over a couple of mornings.

I kept coming up with an extra year from 1991. Even when I used all of 1991 and all of 2002, I was still ending up with one year too many.

Finally,after weighing all I had found and in frustration, I took Anita at her word in that one article and settled on 1990...I did save some of it, but not sure what...It is on the "sick" computer.

What kept throwing me off was that it was stated that Val was born in the Netherlands.Finally decided that really didn't men much.

LOL...Tend to get stuck on the little details!

Truthseeker...an oldie but goldie...

The Lionstone Group...Miami

Plans are in to develop – even by bringing in a Ritz – the San Nicolaas area, which has some wonderful beaches and the town itself, which is delightful. But it’s still the home of an oil refinery, and that, in the words of Alfredo Lowenstein, who owns The Holiday Inn, "It’s too early, too windy, there’s no road that goes there that misses the refinery. People who pay Ritz prices don’t want to look at factory smokestacks. They may own them." The Ritz is looking at the last piece of Palm Beach, and Mr. Lowenstein, who’s working on that project, may or may not get permission to build there.



http://www.internationalreports.net/theamericas/aruba/2002/aniceplace.html

http://www.bondia.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3319&Itemid=1

Papiamentu Translation:

minister rudy croes yesterday owing to give orden for inicia investigacion new in caso holloway

sunday, 14 december 2008 oranjestad — minister rudy croes owing to give instruccion at ministerio publico for inicia one investigacion ‘nobo’ in the caso of desaparicion of natalee holloway. in one combersacion cu the matutino here, the mandatario owing to confirma this brevemento but does not owing to give mucho informacion on this.e investigacion will is more bien enfoca on the first 10 dianan of the investigacion where cu have informacion cu cosnan will owing to bay enough left y cu will was motibo cu today still the caso do not soluciona. the mandatario owing to show cu for more informacion have to achieve this for of procurador general robert pietersz cu will is esun encarga cu the investigacion here. “e preparacionnan owing to inicia caba” croes owing to confirma also. the decision of actua aworaki is follow one serie of suceso of the ultimo simannan hour cu owing to inicia one ‘medio’ war among the mandatario y the ex comisario of police jan vd straten, on the actuacion of the ex police during the first 10 dianan of the investigacion. some declaracion cu the mandatario owing to haci in direccion of vd straten owing to achieve atencion mundial, till cu secretario of estado for asuntonan of the netherlands ank bijleveld owing to cay inside y also owing to sugeri for such investigacion take lugar. self instant is come also declaracionnan of politico dutch iron brinkman at television mericano the week here cu owing to calling the situation y politiconan ‘corupto as fierno’ come across. also owing to show cu the declaracion of minister croes owing to strike the clabo on his cabes y is confirma cu have corupcion at great escala in gobernacion y the apparatus gubernamental. this because the mandatario not owing to divulga the informacionnan recien the time there but now numa y because; such owing to tapa informacion valioso of possible ‘metemento y tapamento’ of the ex comisario. was comienso of month here cu croes owing to show cu declaracionnan comprometedor of jan vd straten owing to stay molostie y owing to dicidi of los this now in prensa. the words “dit kan ik mijn vriend paul niet aandoen” is thing cu vd straten owing to declara according croes. all is cosnan cu owing to wordo declara y haci in the first 10 dianan of the caso according croes. trafico of telephone among jan vd straten y paul vd sloot was enough activo during the first 10 dianan of the caso. owing to come also the caso caminda owing to try at incrimina two man color dark because; esnan suspicion for desvia atencion of paul y joran vd sloot. “pakico joran vd sloot have to owing to happen in all one show poniendo camera for interogue?” croes is ask about. same is ask about pakico owing to place the rechercherchenan interogue at dutch while cu vd sloot is compronde papiamento good very well? all is questions cu croes owing to haci. “pakico not owing to haci the interogacion not at papiamento y pakico vd straten owing to exigi for her interogacion take lugar at dutch?” croes is follow ask about. if is at papiamento the work of recherche owing to wordo haci, they will owing to haci one miho work according the mandatario. owing to haci the question pakico had the privilege for vd sloot. thing also is wing atencion in all the declaracion of minister croes is cu one minister of the netherlands owing to ask the mandatario of husticia for can please not menciona cu joran vd sloot is dutch. “mi of cune, con do you wanted mean not menciona cu joran is dutch “ croes owing to tell the mandatario the time there. this siendo cu at the netherlands is descrimina antillean y aruban according croes. the name of the minister dutch also will wordo menciona according croes. but the instant there the does not owing to menciona this.

Been reading from Joran's book excerpts:

page 1 from Ramm at BFN:

7. they moved to Aruba when Joran was 2 years old

8. in 1990 Paul van der Sloot was offered a job at the "Central Bureau of Legal and General Affairs on Aruba.

9. they married at that time, not having done so because they so no need for a piece of paper stating they were wed. They did it to get easier visas to the island (civil ceremony).

Joran also makes a comment about not being confirmed.  I think that is when the Dutch acquire "godparents".  Maybe Joran does not have a "real" godfather...in the church kind of way.


From Scared Monkeys (?by Hannie):

At the blackjack table are sitting two men, one of them is white, about 45 years of age and has dark hair. Madison had seen this guy two days before already in the Holiday Inn Casino. Some people thought they recognized Joran`s father, but Paul was already gone


Now, I find that interesting.  Joran says he left but other people and Madison saw Paulus...

P332

Also, an FBI "protected witness", an American called "Mr X", meets Deepak in July 2005 in the Internet café wehre Deepak works.

Deepak tells X: “I see what’s going on and I know much more. I’m certain that Natalee is no longer on the island.” He also says something that contradicts that: “When they find the duct-tape with Natalee’s hair on it, then I’ll go to jail", which is strange because they did find hair with duct tape but it wasn't Natalee's.



I don't remember discussing the above.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1097.0