Scared Monkeys Discussion Forum

Goodnight Klaas!

Merry Christmas everyone !!!!!!!!!!!

If anyone would like to join me in lighting a candle for Natalee this is the link:

http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/candles.cfm?l=eng&gi=NAH

Merry Christmas Johan!!!!!

 
Well, actually, there is no mention of the mother in that specific article. It says that the decision to prosecute Joran (or not) has been postponed to February, because of the new tips and that they hope that there will be a solution because otherwise the case of the American girl will harm the island. (Rather free translation!)

Probably the words "e mucha muher Mericano" are mistaken: it just means "the female American child" or in normal English "the American girl".

Cageman

Thank you for the translation. Papiamentu is difficult.

I am thinking of your family.  Prayers for all of you.



Merry Christmas, everyone.

Thank you very much for clarifying that for us Cageman.  I sincerely apologize to everyone for my misinterpretation and any comments I made because of it!  (http://scaredmonkeys.net/Smileys/default/icon_redface.gif)

Truthseeker...We have Jaime's address as Montanja 232 in Shango. He then moved in with his sister. Finngirl may have more on this as she ws asking for the house to be shown on Johan's map the other day. There is also an alternate spelling in Finn's "We Forgot We Knew" thread in Shango...Think it is post 7, for his surname.

I have always thought it suspicious that Joran was out with the Kalpoes 2 nights in a row, when he always hung out with Jaime and Freddy.

My thoughts and Prayers are with Cageman and Pdh3 and their Families this Christmas. And with all the Families of the Missing.

Merry Christmas Monkeys.

Thank you all for your prayers and sympathy. I really appreciate this!

Merry Christmas to you all!!

Monkeys... just wanted to wish each of you a very merry Christmas and the best for 2009.  Peace and love.

Frijole

Warmest wishes for a beautiful holiday season --


SNIPPED FROM JORAN'S JUNE 9 STATEMENT

After that I walked outside through the casino and when I got outside I called my father from my mobile phone which has the number "REMOVED" on the mobile phone of my mother. My mother has a mobile phone with the number "REMOVED". I called my father on that phone because my mother was outside of the country and my father had her phone in his possession. When I called my father it was approximately 23.00 hours. I told my father that I was ready and if he could come and pick me up at "Mc Donalds". After that I had called my friend "Jaime CARASQUILLA" on his mobile phone. I do not know his phone number from memory but I have programmed his mobile phone number in the memory of my mobile phone under the name "Beto". I asked Beto what he was doing and whether he wanted to accompany me in going to Carlos & Charlies. Beto answered me that he was doing nothing but that he could not accompany me to Carlos & Charlies because he had to go to work the next day. Beto works with a transport company but I do not know the name of that company. After that I called Deepak KALPOE and asked him what he was doing and if he wanted to come with me to Carlos & Charlies. Deepak told me he was closing up "Inex" and that he would accompany me to Carlos & Charlies because he didn't have to go to work the next day.

(http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj176/bastibro/Laos/Joranneke_0004-2-1-1.jpg)

I think the guy next to Urine is for a 95% Luke and the third who was with them than would be this teacher moron.

I just lit my candle for Natalee and Dave and Beth.  This last 3 1/2 years has not brought the answers this family needs so I am still here with the rest of the Monkeys who will fight forever as long as needed to BRING JUSTICE FOR NATALEE AND BRING HER HOME TO THE UNITED STATES AND HER FAMILY.

I want to wish all a very Merry Christmas and a prosperous New Year.  Thanks Red, Dugga and most important thanks to the Klaas and all her helpers that keep Natalee's name alive and in the minds of the U.S. and most important Aruba of the injustice done to an American citizen.  You all are the greatest.  Answers have to be forthcoming from Aruba before this chapter can be closed.  They need to understand we will fight the fight until Beth says it is over and She has not told me me that.

MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL.

Blue Moon of KY

       ~ MERRY CHRISTMAS EVERYONE !  JUSTICE FOR NATALEE IN 2009 ~

He's on the run but he cannot go far enough to vanish the memory of Natalee.

Hi Mum,

Thanks for the info.

If you put three days together, 05/28, 05/29 and 05/30 you have Joran, Deepak and Satish out together two nights in a row and Joran and Deepak out together three nights in a row.  Also, Andre puts himself in the Holiday Inn casino on 05/29 and says he actually walked over to the blackjack table where Joran was sitting with the MB kids.  Joran is out the next night with Andre, so he and Andre are out together two nights in a row.  No Freddy.  No Jaime.

The group that gathered at the Wyndham, Aruba Grand and the Radisson in the evening on 05/30 were all questioned and there are some interesting statements made. 



Andre played in the casino two nights in a row and his father was present.  Andre seemed to have been left in the dark as far as Joran and Guido leaving the Wyndham.  Andre says they left and went to Joran's house to get some money so they could play a live game.  (Joran does not mention the part about going to his house to get money to play a live game in his statement)  After he joins them at the Radisson he watches Joran and Guido play for a long time until Deepak arrives.  Then he says Joran, Guido and Deepak all leave, yet he stays. He said he had been 'watching' the others play, so what was he doing as he stayed behind while the others left?  About an hour later they are back, Guido with a silver $100 chip and Joran is again playing poker.  After Joran finishes playing poker, Deepak and Joran leave to go to another casino.  Andre says he and Guido go home.  No mention of Andre's father and why Andre did not leave with him.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=310.0

Bastibro was that pic on a "waar ben je nu page " ?

Nee, er staat een artikel in de prive van deze week.
Niet kopen hOOr want er staat verder niets interessants in  ::MonkeyHaHa::

staat aleen deze foto er in dan ?

en deze . .

(http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj176/bastibro/Laos/Joranneke_0002-1-1-1-1-1.jpg)

Zelfs in Juni, ten tijde van het Greta intervieuw, verbleef hij al in Laos.
Dat blijkt ook uit de berichten op `waar ben je nu`.

MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL MONKEY'S ::MonkeyDance::

WE'RE HEADING INTO 2009 AND JUSTICE FOR NATALEE WILL CONTINUE ARUBA!!



      TAKE NOTICE..............................

Joran claims that he had no intention of going to Carlos and Charlies until the Mountain Brook Students encouraged him to come.  However Jaime Carrasquilla's words in his statement imply otherwise.  Was there a previously conceived plan in the works that would involved a pretty Mountain Brook student who had yet to be targeted ... a pretty Mountain Brook student who was leaving Aruba the next morning ...

Janet

+++++++

JAIME CARRASQUILLA

Joran suspect declaration of June 9, 2005 implies that he called Jaime Carrasquilla at approximately 11:00 PM on the evening of May 29, 2005 after his encounter with Natalee and her friends at the Black Jack table.

Joran Van der Sloot
Suspect Statement
June 9, 2005

I did not make an agreement with the girl as to how late I would meet them at Carlos & Charlies. After that I walked outside through the casino and when I got outside I called my father from my mobile phone which has the number "REMOVED" on the mobile phone of my mother. My mother has a mobile phone with the number "REMOVED". I called my father on that phone because my mother was outside of the country and my father had her phone in his possession. When I called my father it was approximately 23.00 hours. I told my father that I was ready and if he could come and pick me up at "Mc Donalds". After that I had called my friend "Jaime CARASQUILLA" on his mobile phone.


However ... Jaime Carrasquilla's witness statement of June 17, 2005 implies Joran contacted him between 4:00 PM and 7:00 PM on May 29, 2005 in regards to meeting him at Carlos 'N Charlies as the "American girls" would be there - prior to the encounter at the Black Jack table.

Jaime Carrasquilla
Witness Statement
June 17, 2005

On May 29th 2005, between the hours of 16.00 and 19.00, I was called by Joran on my mobile phone with the phone number .

Joran had asked me whether I wanted to go out with him that night. He told me that a few American girls would go to "Carlos & Charlies" and whether I wanted to meet up with him there

Jaime makes a trip over to the Wyndham around 11:00 pm on 05/30 to pick up his father, according to his statement.  Around that time Deepak is calling Joran for a second time that night and Joran and Guido leave the Wyndham Casino according to Andre Dos Santo.  Later they tell Andre they went to Joran's house to get money.  In Joran's statement of 06/14, he and Guido left to cash in chips from the Aruba Grand and they stay and play blackjack for a short time.

Did they actually go out to meet Jaime?  A lot of things were happening around 11:00 pm on 05/30.  Also, I believe Beth had arrived on the island just before 11:00 pm.

Thanks, Janet  ::MonkeyHaHa::

I went off to get Jaime's statement which conflicted with Joran's re: the timing of the call, and got sidetracked.

That was always interesting to me - -the discrepancy in the timing of the call from Joran to Jaime. One would think something like that would be easily verifiable, no?

The other part of Joran's statement that has always stuck out -- is when he tells us that he called his mother's cell phone when he needed his father to give him a ride home from the casino  ::MonkeyConfused:: 

Of course, he also tells us that his father had his mother's cell phone in his possession because she was out of the country. Also easily verifiable, but how did Joran know this?

Pick up at the McDonald's. Was it 11 pm or 4 am? Maybe he really did call his mother.

Which cell phone was Paulus using to call Joran when Beth and Jug arrived? Had he switched back to his own cell phone?

Still so many questions. The answers shouldn't be difficult.

I will wait for them.

I'm with great monkey company.



Justice for Natalee Holloway

I think he did call his mom.  Maybe dad was out of it, angry drunk or drugged.  Anita has island connections and has covered/fixed things for him before.  "My mother can lie"....

I agree Buckeye.

I don`t agree.  I think Anita is totally unaware of all that happened that night at least until march 2008.
My opinion is based on all the interviews that i`ve seen . . English and Dutch

Merry Christmas to all of Natalee's family and friends...
(http://bestsmileys.com/christmas2/4.gif) (http://bestsmileys.com/christmas2/3.gif)

Happy Holidays to all Monkeys and families (http://bestsmileys.com/christmas2/18.gif)

Merry Christmas to Natalee's family.
She will forever be in our hearts.

MERRY CHRISTMAS to all the Monkeys.

I happened to see this at Instapundit and thought it might be of interest here.




HOW’S THE ECONOMY? Reader Ross Zelman writes:

    If you want to get a picture of how bad the US & world economy are doing, ask your readers to describe their holiday travel abroad. I’m in Aruba right now (having a great family vacation). This is our seventh trip in eight years; we’ve been timeshare owners for half that time. We aren’t experts in any sense, but simple observation and inquiry shows that hotels are at less than 50%, hotel staff are reduced, planes are flying less frequently and at less than full occupancy, restaurant reservations are easy to come by and fellow travellers are looking at the empty lounge chairs next to them and all agreeing that things are even worst than in 2001. If optional travel is a leading indicator, the economy is going to retract faster than we even realized.

http://pajamasmedia.com/instapundit/64233/



So things are worse in Aruba than the Christmas after 9/11/01. I'm sure it has much to do with our economy being in the tank, but I'm certainly pleased to learn that Aruba is suffering greatly. 50% less tourists than usual. That has to hurt when your entire economy depends on tourism! Can't happen to a nicer bunch than the Arubans IMO.

Yep, they have to learn to let Justice prevail on Corruptiuon first  ::MonkeyWink::
Great post, Thanks.

(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d118/Sanddrops/MerryChristmasMonkeys5transp.gif)

Pearl at BFN posted this:


http://www.blikopnieuws.nl/extern_bericht/378784


JORAN VAN DER SLOOT VIERT NU FEEST IN LAOS!
Joran van der Sloot heeft Thailand verruild voor het naburige Laos! Blijkbaar werd de Thaise grond toch te heet onder zijn voeten nadat misdaadverslaggever Peter R. de Vries hem voor de tweede maal in het geniep gefilmd had. Op die tweede opnamen met de verborgen camera suggereerde Joran dat hij Thaise vrouwen zou kunnen leveren voor de Nederlandse seksmarkt. Niet lang na de uitzending van De Vries besloot Joran Thailand te verruilen voor Laos, maar ook daar vermaakt Van der Sloot, nog altijd verdacht van betrokkenheid bij de verdwijning van de Amerikaanse tiener Natalee Holloway op Aruba, zich uitstekend zo vertellen Nederlandse rugzaktoeristen die Joran tegen het lijf liepen in Bucks Bar in het dorpje Vang Vieng in Laos! Aan vrouwenhandel zal Joran zich in Laos blijkbaar niet wagen getuige de tekst op zijn t-shirt…. Vraag blijft wel wie de wereldreis van Joran financiert!

Zie bron: ZIJonline

Google translation:

JORAN OF THE DAY NOW VIERT CONCLUDED IN LAOS!
Joran van der Sloot has exchanged Thailand for neighboring Laos! Apparently the Thai was still too hot ground under his feet after crime reporter Peter R. de Vries him for the second time in the quiet was filmed. On the second images with a hidden camera Joran suggested that he could make Thai women for the sex Dutch market. Not long after the broadcast of De Vries Joran Thailand decided to move out of Laos, but also entertained Van der Sloot, is still suspected of involvement in the disappearance of American teenager Natalee Holloway in Aruba, is excellent as telling Dutch backpacker tourists against Joran the bodyguard was in Bucks Bar in the village of Vang Vieng in Laos! On trafficking in Laos Joran will apparently not seen the text car at t-shirt .... Question remains of others whose finances Joran!

See source: ZIJonline


 

Beautiful tree Klaas!  Thank you and Merry Christmas to you and yours!

Supposedly, when Paulus called Anita, in the Netherlands, the "Holiday Inn Story" was the only one known.  Why do Paulus and Anita have issues because Joran was the last with Natalee??   He would not be the last if he and his friends dropped her off at her hotel.  What did Joran's parents know about the truth??

 
“Twee jaar geleden, in mei, werd mijn oma negentig jaar. Ik was in Nederland om haar verjaardag te vieren. Kort voor ik weer terug zou keren naar Aruba, belde mijn man Paul me op en vertelde dat op Aruba een meisje werd vermist. En hij zei erbij: ‘Schijnbaar is Joran de laatste geweest die met haar samen was.’ Er ging onmiddellijk van alles door mijn hoofd, allerlei gedachten streden om voorrang. Heel verwarrend vond ik het dat er ook dingen in me opkwamen als: Potverdorie, zondagavond is hij dus blijkbaar uit geweest. Wij wisten van niets, hij moest het huis uit zijn geslopen.”

Two years ago, in May, my grandmother became ninety year.  I was in the Netherlands her birthday to celebrate.  Short for I prevent back would turn to Aruba, rung my man Paul me on and told that on Aruba a girl was missed.  And he said with it:  'Seeming is Joran the last one been that with her together was.'  There immediately of everything through my head, all sorts of thoughts priorities fought went.  Quite confusingly found I it that it also compete in me came up as:  Potverdorie, Sunday evening is been he thus apparently out.  We knew had to be demolished by nothing, he it house out."
/i]

Posted June 8, 2007 at RU:

 the interview that Anita has given at Libelle a number soak ago

That is one sweet tree!!! Merry Christmas to all monkeys across the land!

     MERRY CHRISTMAS MONKEYS!!!!!

(http://bestsmileys.com/christmas1/9.gif)

To all the monkeys who have never forgotten Natalee.

Wow, I cannot top this, so I'm bringing it forward for all those praying for justice for Natalee.  May her family and friends know that we are still here, and will be here as long as it takes.

Happy Holidays to all.

Hi Art, Merry Christmas to you and your family.

MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL THE MONKEY'S ::cartwheel::

I MAY NOT SAY IT ON A DAILY BASIS BUT WOULD LIKE TO EXTEND MY SINCERE GRATITUDE TO SCARED MONKEYS,AS WELL AS ALL THE MOD MONKEY'S FOR ALLOWING ME TO BE A PART OF SOMETHING SO SPECIAL!!

SCARED MONKEY'S GIVES A VOICE TO THOSE WHO NO LONGER HAVE A VOICE.

THE PURSUIT OF JUSTICE FOR NATALEE AS WELL AS ALL MISSING PERSONS WILL CONTINUE IN 2009............

BE AWARE!MONKEY'S ARE WATCHING FROM THE TREE ::MonkeyDance::

KEEPTHEFAITH

MONKEY'S ARE EVERYWHERE AROUND THE WORLD JORAN...YOU CAN RUN BUT YOU CAN'T HIDE  ::MonkeyDance:: PAULUS?I BET ANITA IS BUYING YOU MORE SHIRTS THIS CHRISTMAS SINCE YOU SEEM TO SWEAT A LOT.. ::cartwheel::

 ::MonkeyHaHa::

To all of you GREAT Monkeys, I would like to wish you a very MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!!!!!!!!! Thank you for your friendship and keeping Natalee in your thoughts and prayers.

God Bless,
Cajun Miracle

JOY TO THE WORLD.........

At least your corner of it  ::MonkeyTongue::


Many thanks to klaas and all the mods. It has been rough -- and you guys are by far 'the best'.

Red, Mrs Red and Dugga, too.

We are all unique individuals -- brought together to support a common goal.

JUSTICE FOR NATALEE HOLLOWAY

PEACE FOR HER FAMILY AND LOVED ONES

Sharon said what I wanted to say so well, I'll just say....DITTO!!!!   ::MonkeyDance:: ::cartwheel:: ::MonkeyDance:: ::cartwheel:: ::MonkeyDance::

We wish everyone a very Merry Christmas!!!

(http://scaredmonkeys.com/fun-images/SMXmas2007_small_small.jpg)

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2008/12/25/merry-christmas-2008-from-scared-monkeys/

May the peace of the Lord come to this family who have suffered.

Thank you to all who have sacificed and given of themselves ...Merry Christmas.

Do you know whether the call from Paul was before or after Beth visited his home on the early morning of may 31?

I don't know but both of them stated they believed the Holiday Inn story until after Joran was arrested.  Sounds like Anita heard the real story while still in Holland.  I think Joran told her and she tried to make sure he was not "alone".  "There were adults there" (the Kalpoes IMO).

Anita returned to Aruba Wednesday evening.  Both she and Paulus knew it was Joran only who was last with Natalee before she returned.  That means they knew the HI story was a lie before Anita ever left The NL.

Just my opinion but based on what she said.  She also mentioned someone from her school calling her and her telling someone to tell Joran to stop talking.  This is contrary to both their claims of telling Joran to tell the truth, etc.

.

O.K. just got home from husbands family Christmas dinner. Brother in law says he and a friend are going to Aruba in Feb. I lost it and told him IF he did I would NEVER speak to him again.  He asked my husband if I was serious and he told him YES.  I told him it was dangerous for tourists, no laws, tourists getting robbed, rental cars being stolen.  My husband told him that is the place Natalee went missing.  BIL says oh they found out she was sold into slavery.  Lost it again with him. Told him come to my home I want to show him some facts he needs to know before he goes.   He told me b4 I left he was sorry if he upset me.  Told him I was dead serious and he has to come to my home so I can "educate" him.  So mad at him right now.

This is funny  ::MonkeyLaugh::

http://www.24ora.com/

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub5/24ora122408.jpg)

Good for you Blue Moon of KY! 

Not only do we not want anyone going there until there is Justice for Natalee; it's really not safe to go there right now.   ::MonkeyNoNo:: 

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/1224129/the_mysterious_disappearance_of_natalee.html?cat=17

11/26/2008

The Mysterious Disappearance of Natalee Holloway
Dead or Alive - Has a Crime Been Committed?

After Natalee Holloway disappeared on May 30, 2005, during a senior class trip on the island of Aruba, at least seven young men along with the father of one, Paul Van Der Sloot, were detained and/or arrested in connection with her disappearance. A judge in training, Paul Van der Sloot was soon released due to insufficient evidence. Two others, security guards Antonius "Mickey" John, 30, and Abraham Jones, 28, were released when the police said they had nothing to do with Holloway's disappearance. Steven Gregory Croes, 26, was released due to insufficient evidence. The other three, Joran van der Sloot, 17, and two Surinamese brothers, Satish Kalpoe, 18, and Deepak Kalpoe, 21, were also eventually released for the same reason.

Later, in May 2006, yet another young man, Guido Weaver, 18, and a casino worker and self-proclaimed friend of Joran Van der Sloot, was indicted for the murder of Natalee Holloway. A week later, Weaver was released - again for insufficient evidence to hold him. In November 2007, authorities re-arrested Van der Sloot and the Kalpoe brothers. This time they were charged with "involvement in the voluntary manslaughter of Natalee Holloway or causing serious bodily harm to Natalee Holloway, resulting in her death". Once more, all three were released due to insufficient evidence.

What is evident is that if you were a young man who was near where Holloway was last seen, it automatically made you a viable suspect and subject to being arrested or indicted with no evidence otherwise. Although this is a pursuable reason, it does become convoluted with each new rumor attributed as being fact even without actual corroboration. Each and every one of these men can be repeatedly arrested, only to be once more released for lack of evidence. In the meantime, how many more "suspects" will be identified while the Aruba police sift through their grab bag of possibilities?

After multiple arrests and even an attempt to be sued by Holloway's parents, Joran Van der Sloot has been the number one suspect. Dutch journalist Peter De Vries videotaped an interview with Van der Sloot on two different occasions where Van der Sloot made statements that he had help disposing of Holloway's body. The second interview, again set up by De Vries, shows Van der Sloot supposedly making arrangements to supply women for a sex industry. Nevertheless, the comments he has made has led many to believe he knows what happened to Natalee Holloway and he does admit to being one of the last to see her the night she went missing.

If the statements were provable that he was telling the truth about what happened or admitting he had anything to do with her alleged death and disappearance, it would give the Aruba officials and Holloway's family a legal stance to try and get a conviction. So far, there is no legal evidence that will hold up in court. It is more likely that Van der Sloot has a bigger problem with making up stories and embellishing them with each telling - depending on who his audience is. Whether or not these evolving tales will be proven true are still subject to debate; however, it does appear that Joran Van der Sloot has a problem keeping his mouth shut or he has a death wish of some kind. These statements have been categorized as being his "confession" for causing the death of Natalee Holloway; instead, they just seem to be an integral part of the imaginary world in which Van der Sloot resides.

Other witnesses have come forward claiming they saw these people with Natalee near a pond and near a landfill, yet investigation never turned up any evidence of Natalee or her body. Another witness has come forward two years later with yet another story of how Van der Sloot indicated he had done something to Holloway and then hid her body. Obviously, these so-called witnesses had no valid information to share and all appear to have been solely looking for their "fifteen minutes of fame". The problem has been that with all these witnesses and all the stories that have been put forward, there has not been a single statement that has generated a single real and verifiable clue as to what happened to Natalee Holloway.

Nonetheless, even if one of these men or any other person did admit to killing Natalee Holloway and also had disposed of her body in some manner, what are the chances of a conviction? Where is the physical evidence? There is no body and no evidence of a crime other than the fact that she is missing. There is no crime scene or forensic evidence connecting any person with her death. There is no evidence that she was sexually abused or is actually dead. No burial location has been found nor a single bone or piece of clothing. Until then, the disappearance of Natalee Holloway will remain a mystery. Without some evidence that points to any person being the cause of Holloway's disappearance, it is unlikely anyone will ever be convicted.


http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4239.900


Will we ever know for sure??????????   ::MonkeyNoNo::

 ::MonkeyEek:: ::MonkeyShocked::

http://www.24ora.com/content/view/6898/5/

(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b258/texasmom55/MiscNews3/1225200824ORAa.jpg)

Papiamentu translation

boa is bite one child tourist of 10 anja thursday, 25 december 2008 - 19:47 come across

diahuebs 25 of december ambulance is wordo dirigi for kapel of alto vista where supuestamente one boa will have to owing to bite one person in the vecindario ey. hour cu ambulance owing to jega at the sitio enberdad they owing to come encontra cu one child tourist cu tawata bezig cu one tour guide y for one motibo or another have to owing to bay march in the district cu consequencia cu one boa will have to owing to bite. personal of ambulance not owing to see importancia for transporta the child for hospital, but if owing to dune one injection for her not contagia his self cu ailment or bacteria. after of the tratamento the child owing to lever in the tour bus y owing to sigi disfruta of we sweet island. click read more for more imagen.

Mambo Jambo December 20th

(http://www.magic965.com/pictures/albums/DEC2008/201208%20MAMBO/Mambo_17.JPG)



December 24th Mambo Jambo

(http://www.magic965.com/pictures/albums/DEC2008/241208%20AFTER%20CURCH1/Mambo_13.JPG)

I also saw the article that posted the pic of the boa caught by Valero(?). Maybe all the rain this year has lead to a bumper crop of vipers......the kind without legs  ::MonkeyRoll::

(http://www.24ora.com/mambots/content/multithumb/thumbs/b.150.0.16777215.0..stories.news.2008.december2008.dec25.boachick.08122008002.jpg)

Boa ta ser captura den Valero
Thursday, 25 December 2008 - 19:03

http://www.24ora.com/content/view/6895/5/

Good Morning texasmom and ... thank you.

I hope you had a nice Christmas.

Since the discovery of the cage/trap and the recovery of the contents by ALE ... the issue has been a non-topic in the media.  I believe that immediate and ongoing distractions are the reasona.

Think about it.  Tim Miller and Dave Holloway were immediately sent on a goose-chase to Costa Rica regarding a "tip".  The crew of the Persistence where immediately sent to check the pond in regards to a "tip".  Then there were the Joran confessions and ... now the Rudy Croes focus on Jan Vander Straaten.

 ::MonkeyNoNo::

Kyle Kingman has the ability to expose the Persistence hoax and ... the John S./ALE connection.  Kyle has the ability to expose the self-serving motivations of John S.  Kyle has the ability to expose the scam that deceived those who sacrificially donated to the Persistence undertaking ... an undertaking that had nothing to do with justice for Natalee Holloway and ... a measure of closure for her family.

Janet

_______


KYLE KINGMAN'S POST - PRIVATE SITE

Kyle: We're being fed misinformation to keep us searching and out of their way while they cover their asses, destroy evidence, cover their tracks, and keep us out at sea and away from the trap.


Oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #776 11/19-08
« Reply #705 on: November 20, 2008, 11:22:14 PM »

Tim Miller was never on the Persistence while I was not on board.  He stepped off on or about the 1st of Jan to follow up on the false lead in Costa Rica IIRC.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4153.msg551304#msg551304

How gross!  I saw that one of Steve (the tongue one...ewwwww), it must be a fad or something; I saw a pic of another DJ doing the same thing!
 ::MonkeyNoNo::

Good afternoon Janet, and thank you!  I had a wonderful Christmas!  I hope you did too. 

However, the questions surrounding the information Kermit has provided were always on my mind.   ::MonkeyWaa::   

I have to wonder if you are right (the information so far says;yes), and Kyle has the ability to reveal information that would prove collusion by American "heroes" with an Aruban coverup to conceal the finding of the remains of precious Natalee; or if we are wrong (what don't we know) ????  I had so been hoping for some word from our fearless top banana Red to help me determine what to believe; but that has not come...so I have to wonder why that word hasn't come (either he hasn't been able to find out yet; or he can't post what he has found out)???? 

So many questions!!!!!   ::MonkeyConfused::

I was hoping his tongue would get caught and ripped out of his mouth.  He is so disgusting.

Do you think that is SC in the top pic with hair design & 4 days later in 2nd pic has regular hair?  I don't, but I guess it doesn't matter.... :puker:

Was Maggie and CBB's concerns right on?  Was the search for the "Michelle" .... an Aruban  vessel that was in distress one of the diversions which Kyle Kingman's was referring to ... the diversions to keep the crew of the Persistence away from the cage/trap which may have held Natalee Holloway's remains?

Kyle Kingman does not think so but ... when you consider ... the pond tip ... the Costa Rica tip ... the pond witnesses ... Joran confessions ... the investigation of Jan Vander Straaten by Rudy Croes ...

 ::MonkeyNoNo::

Janet

_______

I wish it would too San!  I have a pic or two where he is making other gestures with his tongue that I didn't post because I had no doubt what the gestures were replicating!  He knew his picture was being taken, and intentionally posed that way!  He is a disgusting POS, and eventually he will stick his tongue in the wrong place and it will either get ripped out or rot off!

 ::MonkeyNoNo::

I think you're right bb, all the rain is driving the snakes out!  Forecast is rain all this week too!

That has always been suspicious to me too! 

Even more suspicious when you consider Kyle Kingman's words posted on a private site sometime in the months following.  It was almost as though he was through covering for John S./ALE conspiracy.  I wish his concerns had been shared with the FBI and/or Natalee Holloway's family.

Janet

++++++


KYLE KINGMAN'S POST - PRIVATE SITE

Kyle: We're being fed misinformation to keep us searching and out of their way while they cover their asses, destroy evidence, cover their tracks, and keep us out at sea and away from the trap.

Hope all you Monkey's had a wonderful Christmas.. ::MonkeyDance::

I agree with Janet at this point in time.Also.Remember Red said things are going on behind the scenes,as well as Rob has contact with Tj Ward.We'll have to await their word!Let's get back to The Persistence.Where are John Silvetti,Tim Trahan,as well as Schaeffer and everyone else that was involved on the 7th of Jan??

Either the dates are wrong, or we have two different DeeJays here.

Thanks, 2NJSons_Mom !

I had a great Christmas but soooo glad it is all over.  I thrive on routine ... structure.  I find the Christmas season ... for the most part ... so overwhelming at times.  Although ... hubby and I are going to venture out to do some visiting this afternoon ... the peace and quiet of the morning has been appreciated.

Keepthefaith ... I hope that your Christmas went well.

When Kyle Kingman's words posted at another site are considered ... I do not think the topic of the cage/trap should lose focus until the contents the ALE retrieved without a challenge by John S. are revealed.  The family may be working behind the scenes but ... the posts of Monkeys have meaning as well.  Scared Monkeys' forums are open ... open for ALL to read.  It only takes one person who has the ability to make a significant difference ....

Janet
12:30 PM PT

I pray for Kyle.To live with his knowledge with his daughter being named Natalee will be an ever present reminder of the ability to do right or wrong!"If" he has faith.He knows what the right choice is! ::MonkeyCool::

Glad you had a wonderful Christmas Janet.Down here in the Seattle area it was a little difficult traffic wise but,one can't complain with a white Christmas..

I agree Janet.   ::MonkeyNoNo::

keepthefairth

I reside in the Fraser Valley of British Columbia ... just across the American border from you.  For the most part we share the same weather patterns.  However ... although there is close to two feet of snow in the Valley ... the main roads and freeways are been kept well ploughed and salted so ... commuting has not been a real problem although there have been a few serious incidences reported.

A friend of my daughter and SIL was killed just prior to Christmas in a vehicle accident on the  Coquihalla while ... returning home to the Valley with wife and four children (7-13) from a skiing trip at Manning Park.  Their van hit black ice.  Thankfully ... the rest of the family were uninjuried for the most part.

It has warmed a little today and ... melting has taken place so ... I hope temperatures do not return to those below freezing temperatures.  As we have a 4-wheel drive truck ... it is ice I detest more than snow when commuting.

My daughter and family made from the Eastern Fraser Valley for Christmas and ... son and famly made it from Vancouver Island and ... all have made it home safely.

However ... our church and most churches in the Fraser Valley did cancel Christmas Eve services.

Janet

If you look closely, (as disgusting as it is...) you can see the design in the front of his hair in the 24th pic.  His hair grows fast I guess (maybe kin to a whooly mammoth? lol), but I think both pics are POS Steve.

I don't think his hair grew back that quickly.  Could be the actual date the pic was taken is not the 24th.  Or the one shown as the 20th could have been an earlier date.

Have a nice afternoon texasmom and truthseeker2.

Janet
1:30 PM PT

You, too, Janet.  I'm heading home from work.  Anxious to see how much traffic there is today!

I'm going to cut everyone some slack since it is the holidays but....come 2009 let's try to be better:


(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub5/Rules09.jpg)

http://www.coolaruba.com/component/option,com_gallery2/Itemid,28/?g2_itemId=623306

http://www.coolaruba.com/component/option,com_gallery2/Itemid,28/?g2_itemId=623294

You too, Janet!

 ::MonkeyShocked::

http://www.awe24.com/

DAMA TURISTA A HOGA NA MOMENTO CU EL A BAY DIVE

NAN A BAY DIVE CU E BOTO MI AMIGO



(http://www.awe24.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/DEC_2008/24_dec_hogamento__2___Small_.JPG)

Dive Aruba has a boat called the Amigo.

(http://www.divearuba.com/newboat11.jpg)

http://www.awe24.com/

Another pic from the site, and it does have Dive Aruba on the side.

(http://www.awe24.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/DEC_2008/24_dec_hogamento__1___Small_.JPG)

We agree, here, truthseeker2....maybe they were posted on those dates and not taken on those dates???...who knows.  My older son shaves his head, and it definitely doesn't grow back that much in 4 days.  DH hated it until his started to receed too much so he started to do the same...so I have two men here to base it on.  Anyway, it was an observation and I always appreciate BB's picture updates.

I read about the dive accident on an Aruba Bulletin board- not much info. but in looking at the pics, all I can say is I wouldn't want to count on any of the three guys on that boat to do CPR on me. Hell they don't look terribly upset-just throw the towel over her head- feet and fingers starting to show signs of cyanosis, wonder if they tried CPR? no police around ( would you think they would radio someone?). Maybe I am reading to much into the pics.....very sorry for the lady- looks like she is wearing an all inclusive band on her left wrist. ::MonkeyNoNo::

(http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/2973/4372131181737200767riu2io2.jpg)


Occupancy Rates Are Down 20 to 25 Percent For High-Season 2009


December 24th 2008, Aruba.

ORANJESTAD-CEO of Aruba Hotel And Tourism Association (AHATA), Rob
Smith is expecting difficult times for the island's tourism industry during 2009.
Based on the latest reservations, hotels are reporting occupancy rates ranging
between 65 and 67 percent for the high-season of 2009 that is between 20 to
25 percent down compared to the average high-season occupancy rate.

Smith calls the projected occupancy rate for the first quarter of 2009 grave.
Hotels on the island should have healthy occupancy rates of between 82 and
85 percent in the first quarter of the year to break even for the rest of the
year.

There is a noticeable trend in bookings in the past months. Visitors are now
booking their trip to Aruba an average of 21 days in advance. In the past
visitors reserved their trip to Aruba months ahead. The changing behaviour in
reservations may be attributed to uncertainty in personal finances and job
security, in addition to domestic and global economic outlook. Therefore it is
extremely hard to give a much accurate projection of the occupancy rate for
the high-season of 2009.

There is also good news, so far no additional hotels have announced lay-offs
of their employees to AHATA. Radisson Aruba Caribbean Resort & Casino has
decided to lay-off 40 employees on voluntary basis in the Fall of 2008 as a
result of low occupancy rate.

http://www.aruba-bb.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=66068

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub5/diveaccident.jpg)

I agree Bleached.  They don't look upset at all.  I wonder if they even know CPR.  Geez this poor woman.

I know what you mean.  My son shaved his head during his sophomore year of high school.  In June of his rising senior year I begged him to grow it out for his senior pics.  He did, but it took a while to even get a good stubble on his head.  BB always has interesting stuff posted.  The dates those pics were taken may be messed up.

I am still waiting on my brother-in-law to show up so I can "educate him" on his planned trip to Aruba.  If he still goes then I can only say I tried and he is stubborn.

YOU TALKIN TO ME WILLIS!!

 ::MonkeyShocked::

My New Year's Resolutions are the same as last year and ... the year before.

1.  No more off topic.
2.  No more striving to be afforded that edit icon.
3.  Be more compromising.
4.  Refrain from posting quotes.
5.  Two hour daily limit on the SM Site.
6.  Be nice to trolls.
7.  Never bother Klaas or mods to edit my typos.
8.  Encourage to Dana to invite Steve Cohen and Joe Tacopina back to his show.

 ::MonkeyTongue::

Janet

I agree bb, I felt very sorry for the lady.   ::MonkeyNoNo::

Janet, I would be honoured to fix your typos.  :2notworthy:

Typos what typos  ::MonkeyWink::

San and Nut

Hugs!

Janet

Have a good night Janet.

12/27/2008 Awe Mainta Pg 2

http://awemainta.com/home/

(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b258/texasmom55/Misc%20News%204/12272008AweMaintaPg2.jpg)

Papiamentu translation:

fiscal is confisca curpa of muher canades cu owing to die during diving

police of oranjestad, tuesday 11.15 of afternoon, is achieve informacion cu one tourist will owing to hoga. owing to resulta cu one are of tourist owing to bay dive y during this, the tourist helen antoinette buchmir, casa cu hussey, of 54 year, owing to become bad, y owing to tell the diveinstructeur for lever cune. hour cu past owing to arrive in boat, past owing to cay in another y owing to cay in sea. the was bleed for nose. ambulance owing to come n’e sitio y dune first help, but not can owing to haci mucho. for 12.15 dr. van der broek owing to constata dead of the victima. the curpa wordo take in beslag for more investigacion. informacion adicional cu we of awemainta owing to achieve is, cu one lady tourist here n’e instant cu past owing to bay dive, the was cu his 2 yiunan. they owing to bay scuba cu the boat my amigo, cu is opera for casonan so. till now is tell cu past owing to hoga, but autopsia will determina kico owing to cause his dead exactly, cu is motibo cu ministerio publico owing to let confisca the cadaver.

(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b258/texasmom55/CarpePicNatalee1.png)

Hoping and praying that the answers come soon! 
Justice for Natalee!

The world is a bigger nastier place then most can even understand.
The answers are not simple. So people better dig deeper in understanding to get to the bottom of WHY Natalee was disappeared. Why Paulus exists, untouched. Why Joran is such a lure, FREE,Untouched. Why the Dutch play the game of "Help" "Concern" Yet show passive resistance in doing ANYTHING of true value.
Natalee is far more then just a case of a girl who was gang raped and disposed of.
Good luck in 2009 in finding eye opening revelations. I doubt we will find the real answers without opening up Pandora's box. It is probably more info then most sit at home moms with bleeding hearts can comprehend. It is all relative in the end.
Natalee was a pawn in a very Big Game.
jmho

Good Morning johan and Magnolia.

Janet
9:20 AM PT

I agree.

 ::MonkeyShocked::

This "sit at home mom with a bleeding heart" as well as others do comprehend perfectly the far reaching domino effect if Joran or Paulus were to be held accountability for their participation in the the events of the morning of May 30, 2005.

This is the reason that I believe that justice for Natalee Holloway is never going to prevail in either an Aruba or Dutch courtroom.

Accountability will extent from Joran and Paulus to the sons of the elite .... to those within the Aruban/Dutch administration who played a role in the coverup ... to the paid-off witnesses ... to the judiciary ... to the owners of the establishments involved in Aruba's underground economy (drugs, alcohol, pornography, sex trade, gambling, money laundering) ...

Janet

Good Morning San and texasmom.

Janet
11:00 AM PT

Good Morning Tamikosmom.

I will take Justice anyway I can get it.  I have said this once so I will say it again.  It is time to start fighting dirty.  Aruba/Holland from day one has never fought a fair fight.  They caused the damage.  So now I say fight fire with fire and win at any cost.

I agree, San....but I don't know how to do that except hire a hit man and
I don't have a single hit man in my address book.

Wait let me check to see if I have any in my address book.  ::MonkeyHaHa::

Aruba had professional hitmen.  Some were law enforcement (Van der Straaten) and others were mafia (Posner).

So besides dealing with the corrupt Aruban hitmen we had to deal with the corrupt American Traitors.

I believe America is giving Aruba,as well as The Netherlands every opportunity to do right which they won't due!In time i believe Paulus,as well as Joran's exit from this planet will happen when we least expect it!Maybe from some "Bad" coffee,car accident or something of that nature.Their time will come.Hopefully sooner then later.

And I will not have one ounce of sympathy for that entire family.

Good morning Janet!   ::MonkeyCool::

Me either San! 

I do and ... hubby knows it.

How in the world do you think Tamikosmom has been able to keep this guy focused on only me for 43 years?  Love or fear ... it does not matter.  He is mine ... all mine.

 ::MonkeyHaHa::

Janet

::MonkeyHaHa::

 ::MonkeyHaHa::

I agree that it begins and ends with them.  Paulus is a perverted old man past his prime many years ago.  We will never know the truth behind the real cell phone calls because that in itself will implicate many on that island and also in Holland.  The two phones that needed to be wire tapped were Paulus' and Anita's.

They do not have the will to return Natalee to her family because at this point they are reluctant to do so because of the shame they have already been put through.  Aruba is being spiteful.

In Aruba's mind they think they have won.  But did they really win and at what cost to the island.  One mother took on that entire island with the help of the news media.  She exposed the corruption.

THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE KYLE........GOD BLESS...... ::MonkeyWink::

Truer words were never spoken.  American traitors who pretended to
help Natalee's family in the beginning and those who pretended to
search for her remains while furthering their own business interest.

AMEN.

Kyle wrote all of that prose with religious undertones and I fell for
it hook, line and sinker.  I even felt protective of the boy.
I have decided he was nothing more than a silver-tongued devil.

Yes, I agree.  This is not about a bunch of 'bad boys' who are so schooled in the art of getting rid of bodies that no one would be able to find them.  The cover up began on 5/30 and it continues even today.  Why is Joran and/or Paulus Van Der Sloot worth all of this to Aruba and to the Netherlands?  This could have been over with years ago, but they let it continue.  I just do not believe that people on Aruba do not know the truth.  They know.  So how deep does it go and if this is in any way political you would think there are enough people who oppose the current government that they would come together and expose the truth.  But they haven't.  In politics, no matter the country, the only thing politicians really care about is the amount of money thrown their way and their image.

So, why haven't the opposing politicians put this to rest?  What about this is so bad that even those hungry for power in Aruba will not take charge of letting the truth be told?

The idea that letting the rest of the world know that some of their citizens committed a brutal crime and were sent to jail for it would not be nearly as damaging as what they have done and continue to do now.  So...who or what are they afraid of????

When he first posted I didn't pay attention to what he said.  For some reason when I have an uncomfortable feeling about a person I stop myself from listening.  This happened with two people recently.  One was Kyle.

If Kyle Kingman were to do right because it is right and ... step forward and reveal to the FBI all he knows regarding the dynamics behind the deception of the Persistence undertaking ... I believe that Aruba has no choice but to return Natalee Holloway's remains to her family.  Without this this measure of closure ... Aruba will continue to be haunted by a mother who will continue to be a voice for her daughter for the next 36 years.

Janet
________

'Scarborough Country' for Oct. 24th
updated 7:06 a.m. PT, Tues., Oct. 25, 2005

HOLLOWAY TWITTY: ... I have told Prime Minister Oduber that I will do this, I will be the voice of Natalee for the next 40 years. And I hope I have that long, because I will do it as long as I can.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9813596/


KYLE KINGMAN'S POSTS TO A PRIVATE FORUM

Kyle: I have not given anything to the FBI since the pictures and statements from Dec 29th

Kyle: None of us gave any statements to the authorities after the 29th. It's possible John Silvetti did, because he was the only one conversing with them after Jan 7th.

Kyle: I've talked with Peter Shouten numerous times back in February. He hasn't seen anything but knows about the blue fabrics. DeVries and Endemol was interested in purchasing the ROV footage and I was working between them, ABC, and CBS to strike a deal.

Kyle: In case it isn't clear.. notice the blue denim-like fabric

Kyle: The Aruban divers were on the police boat, dove from their boat, and returned to their boat.

Kyle: They were immediately whisked away by the Aruban police and not seen of again by us on the 7th

Kyle: John stood back and waited and worked with the Aruban Polis

Kyle: John definitely believed the Arubans at their every word

Kyle: John didn't want Tim Miller on board the Persistence because he said Tim wasn't necessary any more and was a liability

Kyle: John told me then he didn't want to hear me ever mention the trap again.

Kyle: Schafer is sue crazy.

Kyle: I did not feel the same and we had a major difference in opinion. He [John Silvetti] was the one who never pressed ALE to be completely open with us with the trap evidence. I would have forced them to. However, John was the one paying my invoices so I was forced to sit back and hope for the best.

Kyle: We all know it wasn't a blouse, but I believe they were sent some piece of fabric other than the fabric found inside the trap.

Kyle: We're being fed misinformation to keep us searching and out of their way while they cover their asses, destroy evidence, cover their tracks, and keep us out at sea and away from the trap.

Kyle: I've talked with Peter Shouten numerous times back in February. He hasn't seen anything but knows about the blue fabrics. DeVries and Endemol was interested in purchasing the ROV footage and I was working between them, ABC, and CBS to strike a deal.

Kyle: Louis is currently working with someone who I do not know to put together some documentary on the case, the way it was handled, and what happened during the search. I learned this from Tim T. yesterday. Louis was sold on the idea that it will make him a lot of money.

Kyle: The portion of the discolored blue fabric was presumably on the bottom of the fabric. In my opinion this discoloration is not another type of fabric, but rather biological staining or discoloration from biological growth caused from a high organic carbon content and decay. Basically, during decay a biological mat will form around the organics from remains. This is what I believe it is on the bottom of the fabric.

Kyle: John Silvetti told me today that he may be returning to Aruba very soon for a few days.

Kyle: I couldn't get the logs from the Persistence. All things "Holloway" were stripped from the boat once it got back to Louisiana

Kyle: It was confirmed by the FBI that they received a fabric sample send by Richardson and that it wasn't a match to Natalee's blouse. I think the video can prove or disprove whatever the FBI was sent was the same object or not. I strongly believe it's blue denim. Everyone I show thinks the same thing without being prompted (including senior ABC execs).

Klye: We're being fed misinformation to keep us searching and out of their way while they cover their asses, destroy evidence, cover their tracks, and keep us out at sea and away from the trap.

Kyle: neither Dave, Robin, or Beth has seen any of the ROV footage aside from what was broadcasted on Dateline or the pictures leaked from the FBI to Dave (and Robin H.). Beth has seen nothing in my knowledge.

Kyle: John is not a believer in the trap. He took ALE's word as gospel that it wasn't case related, yet never studied the videos or bothered to inquire further. He had plans on doing business with Aruba and in S. America and he didn't want to hurt any feelings by talks hinting at lack of complete trust and friendship.

Kyle: Notice the end of the skirt is an identical match to the 90 degree angle in the sand. I believe her left arm was outstretched with her legs slightly bent. I did not edit the legs. I believe the tarp was placed over her and tucked around her, or perhaps tied down. I believe there are several rocks laying on the sand which were placed on the tarp, or inside the tarp over her body which explains their unusual location. Either way, the proportions appear promising.

Kyle: I took the proportions of the body form from the head, to shoulder, to a 90 degree angle which I believed to be the hem line of Natalee's skirt. I then took those proportions and matched them to the photo of Natalee with what she was last seen wearing. The proportions matched within an inch from head, to shoulder, to skirt line. Based on this comparison and with what we believed we saw in the Dec 29th video, Tim Miller contacted the family and told them the 99.9% comment. I told Tim not to do anything until we have forensic results back after the site is processed. Jan 7th we sampled the contents and in my opinion we found the skirt under the sand along with the other items The blue fabric was found right where the skirt is pictured. If it isn't her, it will forever haunt me as a major cosmic WTF.

kyle: Richardson was onboard the Persistence several times and attended the meetings on the boat. You may see a glimpse of him on the Dateline video in the survey room along with Mos standing over my shoulder.

And you are usually right on the mark as far as judging people.
I have never known of you to be wrong.   ::MonkeyCool::

I am still trusting that Kyle's faith will be the catalyst to bring him to his knees ... ask God for forgiveness ... ask Natalee's family for forgiveness and ... then do what is right in revealing his perspective regarding the Persistence endeavor ... an endeavor that had everything to do with John S. assisting in THE FINALE TO THE GREAT ARUBAN COVERUP!!

Natalee Holloway was betrayed by John S.  The family was betrayed by John S.  The sacrificial donors were betrayed John S.

If the contents of that cage/trap were Natalee Holloway's remains ... the family deserved to at least know the truth.

Janet

Thank you Magnolia.  Your opinion means a lot to me.  You are always on target with your posts.

One would hope that someone on that boat had a conscience.

I DO ::MonkeyWink::

I don't know if this has been posted and forgive me if it is a repat but Monday December 29th, E! News Special on Natalee Holloway @ 10pm

Thanks flamom!

Happy Holidays Monkeys!

It has been mentioned several times that Arubans aren't really as informed on the case as Americans, especially Monkeys. I was wondering if it would be possible for some of the super smart, informed Monkeys to put together facts (and even some pictures, trap etc) in an editorial and then get it published in Diario. Get the information to the Aruban poeple as well.

I just feel that the Arubans don't care.  I don't believe for one second that they are not informed.  They all know what went down on that island.  Most have access to the internet.

I often wonder why Jossy Mansur himself has not done his own editorial regarding these pictures.  I am sure he is aware of them and what stops him from informing the people himself.

I will give a considerable donation to the cause.

I do believe that the copyright to these photos may belong to Schaefer or ... it may have been sold to a network and ... then without Kyle attesting to the happenings aboard the Persistence ... there is no proof that the endeavor was not about justice for Natalee Holloway and ... a measure of closure for her family.   There is no proof that the endeavor was about John Silvetti's self-serving motives.

Janet
________

KYLE KINGMAN'S POSTS SUBMITED TO A PRIVATE FORUM

Kyle: I've talked with Peter Shouten numerous times back in February. He hasn't seen anything but knows about the blue fabrics. DeVries and Endemol was interested in purchasing the ROV footage and I was working between them, ABC, and CBS to strike a deal.

Kyle: John is not a believer in the trap. He took ALE's word as gospel that it wasn't case related, yet never studied the videos or bothered to inquire further. He had plans on doing business with Aruba and in S. America and he didn't want to hurt any feelings by talks hinting at lack of complete trust and friendship.

Arubans knew the truth from the getgo but ... justice for an 18 year old American citizen was not a concern.  Arubans just wanted the Natalee Holloway story to go away ... just wanted Beth Holloway to go away ... so the Tourist Industry could again thrive.

Beth and Jug see through the facade.  They have both publicly stated that they do not have any advocates on that Island except Jossy Mansur.

The people of Aruba have no problem demonstrating in mass when it comes to wages or ... drug, choller and environmental issues.  Also ... they are able to organize demonstration against an anquished mother who dared to call two suspects criminals ... two suspects who obstructed the investigation into her missing daughter with their lies.  However ... in 3 1/2  years there has not even been one "tiny" demonstration by the "good people" of Aruba on behalf of justice for Natalee Holloway.

Janet

+++++++++++++

DANA PLETZER
October 5, 2007

JOSSY MANSUR: People thought Beth caused bad publicity for the island, but Beth is not at fault, it is the three suspects.If there's damage to the island it should be on the shoulders of the three suspects.

http://scaredmonkeysradio.com/2007/10/05/the-dana-pretzer-show-live-friday-october-5-2007-guests-include-jossy-mansur-and-ken-shepherd/


CNN LIVE TODAY
Missing in Aruba
Aired July 5, 2005 - 10:00   ET

BETH HOLLOWAY TWITTY, NATALEE HOLLOWAY’S MOTHER: It is now that I ask the world to help me. Two suspects were released yesterday who were involved in a violent crime against my daughter. These criminals are not only allowed to walk freely among the tourists and citizens of Aruba, but there are no limits where they may choose to travel.

I am asking all mothers and fathers and all nations to hear my plea. I implore you, do not allow these two suspects, the Kalpoe brothers, to enter your country until this case is solved. Do not allow these criminals to walk among your citizens. Help me by not allowing these two to get away with this crime.

It is my greatest fear today that the Kalpoe brothers will leave Aruba. I am asking the Aruban officials to notify the United States State Department in the event these suspects try to leave this island. I am asking all nations not to offer them a safe haven. I am asking this in the name of my beautiful, intelligent and outstanding daughter who I haven’t seen for 36 days and for whom I will continue to search until I find her.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0507/05/lt.03.html


Beth Holloway
LOVING NATALEE
Page 157/158

No one is breathing. Or Moving. Reporters and camera people are crying. The media hve been here more than a month, and they’ve seen firsthand what we’ve experienced. They are moved by this plea. But some of the Arubans are not. Calling their local sons “criminals” offends them. Having just heard the prosecuting attorney tell us at least one of the Kalpoes could be involved in whatever happened to my daughter. I felt the term seemed appropriate. But it led to an abrupt change in the tide of support.

… Not long after the “criminals speech,” some Arubans back off their prayer vigils for Natalee. A few protest in the streets against the barage of negative media. We’ve worn out our welcome at the Holiday Inn. And they let us know they’ve had it. The Aruban Tourism Authority (ATA), the Aruba Hotel and Tourism Association (AHATA), the Aruba Trade and Industry Association and a scattering of island officials establish the Strategic Communications Task Force to combat the negative media. And to combat us.


Some Arubans angry at Holloway’s mom
Calling brothers ‘criminals’ elicits resentment, statement from lawyer
updated 6:56 p.m. PT, Wed., July. 6, 2005

ORANJESTAD, Aruba - A latent but growing resentment here became evident for the first time when more than 200 people, some wrapped in Aruban flags, said they were incensed by statements made by the mother of missing American teen Natalee Holloway.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8484217


'Scarborough Country' for July 6
updated 8:11 a.m. PT, Thurs., July. 7, 2005

JOHN MERRYWEATHER, FORMER ARUBA DIPLOMAT: I was not part of the organization, but I went there in support of our justice system.

<snipped?

SCARBOROUGH: No, what did Natalee’s mother say that offended so many people in Aruba?

MERRYWEATHER: Well, you know, it—it—it offended me, also.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8498049/


Missing teen's mom apologizes for comments
Statements 'fueled by despair'
Friday, July 8, 2005; Posted: 6:41 p.m. EDT (22:41 GMT)
 
ORANJESTAD, Aruba (CNN) — The mother of Natalee Holloway apologized Friday for saying two released suspects were involved in her daughter’s disappearance.

“The statements I made on July 5th were fueled by despair and frustration because of still not knowing where my daughter is,” Beth Holloway Twitty said in a statement to the media. “I think everyone, everyone can sympathize with that.”

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/07/08/missing.aruba/index.html

No one is this dumb in life.    When you go on an endeavor like this you have all the facts in this case and one fact was clear to everyone and that was the ALE is corrupt to the core.

igsigs

Scared Monkeys Video Paul Van Der Sloot Memory Lapses

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiVKwLpsza0

 ::MonkeyHaHa::

Janet

igsigs
Lively Case Discussion #641 6/16 - 6/19/2007
« Reply #363 on: June 17, 2007, 10:48:52 PM »

PAULUS 6/23 PV

Suspect did remark that he is willing to tell us everything he remembers if this somehow gives clarity in the case of Natalee Holloway gone missing.

I cannot precisely recollect
It is possible
But i do not remember
I cannot remember exactly
It is possible but i cannot remember
I cannot remember
The exact time i cannot remember
I at least cannot remember
I cannot exactly remember
I cannot remember anymore
I cannot remember
I cannot exactly remember anymore
I do not know for sure
I cannot visually play back in my own mind
I cannot remember
I cannot remember
To the best of my recollection
I cannot remember however
I cannot remember
I an not 100% sure of that
I cannot remember anymore
I am not sure
I do not remember whether i did
I do not remember
I cannot remember whether i did
Maybe i did
I cannot remember anymore
I cannot remember what i did
I was busy in the kitchen and did not hear
I cannot remember
I think i went to work
I do not remember
I don't exactly remember anymore
I do not remember

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1223.msg182463;topicseen#msg182463

 ::MonkeyHaHa::

IGSIGS ... WHERE DID YOU GO???s

 ::MonkeyWaa::

Janet

I came across this in the archives not long ago, I think credit for it goes to Carpe; but I'm not sure.

(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b258/texasmom55/PVDS/PVDSppppp.jpg)

 ::MonkeyHaHa::

I don't get it.

 ::MonkeyWaa::

Janet

If John Silvetti traveled to Aruba to attend Jossy's daughter's wedding there is some relationship there.  I'd like to know what that relationship is.  Seems like an expensive trip to attend the wedding of a casual aquaintance.... 

 
Janet,
I think whoever made the picture was just making fun of Paulus' lack of memory for just about everything; and his reasoning for his answers to some questions.  I think the "underwear" and his failure to remember if he had any on or not was just being sarcastic since he seemed to not be able to remember much of anything.  I hope I have not confused you more!

 ::MonkeyHaHa::

I agree.

 ::MonkeyHaHa::

I get it.

Janet

 ::MonkeyShocked::

The plot thickens.

Janet

The plot needs to get a little thicker yet..
What ever happened to the supposed visiting Saudi or Paki or some sort of royalty with a twisty turban top that was supposedly on Aruba with a Jet when Natalee went missing ./.
Was any of that True? I remember some conversation and I did get some notes on it.
I do not remember if it was all smoke in the end.

It was kind of like the plastic bag.. after awhile it had rats and bones and I just have no idea how that happened.. Or if it was real .. ? I know that plastic bag was real..  ::MonkeyWink::

 ::MonkeyShocked::
24ora is broadcasting live from Senor Frogs...Mark Benson's birthday bash.

http://www.24ora.com/component/option,com_frontpage/Itemid,1/

I think it's almost 2am there, but it's still going on!

http://www.amigoe.com/english/

Human trafficking a concern in the Caribbean
23 Dec, 2008, 08:09 (GMT -04:00)

WILLEMSTAD/THE HAGUE – “The Caribbean is definitely a worrisome area”, said Justice-minister Ernst Hirsch Ballin (CDA) about the human trafficking during a Justice-deliberation of the Lower House-committee.  He reacted on questions of PvdA-Member of parliament Khadija Arib about the cooperation with the Neth.Antilles and Aruba.  That’s the reason for the cooperation in the aliens’ supervision that we are currently giving shape.”

One of the issues that Arib raised was ‘the human trafficking via islands like Bonaire and the Windward Islands’.  “I do understand that per January 1, these islands are comparable with a Dutch municipality.  According to a report from Brazil, women from that country are rather often dealt in via Surinam for example to these islands.  How is human trafficking going to be suppressed in these new municipalities?”
“We are more in general busy with the reinforcing of the immigration chain in Aruba and in the Neth.Antilles, which also affects countries of origin in the Caribbean and South-America”, was Hirsch Ballin’s answer.

The cooperation that the Netherlands has offered is accepted.  “This also counts for the Windward Islands and Bonaire that later are going to be part of the Dutch government, if the plans that are currently in preparation for this, are accepted.  The first move in the cooperation was a mini-conference that I participated in; at that time well-coordinated with the deliberation in Aruba on other maintenance of law and order subjects.  The discussion was mainly aimed at making assistance and expertise available.”

justice is still receiving new tips

(http://www.revu.nl/pix/artikel/12763_main.jpg)

The Public Prosecutor (OM) hopes to Aruba in February to decide whether Joran van der Sloot will be prosecuted in the case of Natalee Holloway. It was envisaged that this decision around Christmas was already taken, but the Algemeen Dagblad reported that justice is still receiving new tips.

Thanks to the great media attention for the disappearance of Natalee was given the Dutch-Aruban investigators still regularly with new tips. Only last month said a friend of Joran that he had told her that his father knew of the case. It was heard by the search.

"In order to examine the tips we need more time," said a spokesperson for the PPS to the newspaper about the decision of the head officer in February at knot by the heels. "We think than enough to have a decision to take on further prosecutions."

wow ..That sounds like some kiss ass garbled Carp. ::MonkeyEek::

1.hopes to.
2.knot by the heels.
3.paulus knew of the case..
4.they need more time.. it is all so complicated.. ::MonkeyRoll::
It is hard to get all the crumpled up papers into the garbage can from acrosss the room. ::MonkeyTongue::

I hope in 2009 that Maria organizes a large group of Aruban citizens to mass a protest for justice and freedom from the evil powers that control Aruba. The Real Aruban citizen is not in part with Any of Them and we all know that to be true.

Oh great ..Now I have a pop up on scared monkeys for online gambling tournaments taking over my computer..
Joran and friends are hard at work I see.  ::MonkeyWink::
Has everyone here already joined the tournament ? I am sure the game is rigged. ::MonkeyDance::

bump

(http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/7457/2039/1600/one%20man%20with%20courage.jpg)

"To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice."
   -- Confucius

I saw this advertised also - it is named "The Final Hours of Natalee Holloway".  It sounds simliar to the 20/20  show last spring called "20/20: The Final Hours of Natalee Holloway".  What struck me is that E! New indicates in their tags both online, on TV, and in the paper that Monday night's (10:00 PM EST)  is new.   It is also showing on Tuesday 12/30 at 11:00 am EST, Wesnesday 12/31 at 1:00 am EST, Saturday 1/3 at 6:00 pm EST, and Sunday 1/4 at 9:00 am EST.

Thanks Sleuth!  Good to see you!   ::MonkeyCool::

Good to see you also TM.  I hope your holidays were both happy and relaxed.

Integrity is doing the right thing, even when you know no one is watching.

Thank you Sleuth, yes my holidays have been both; hope yours have been too!  So true about Integrity....

Hi, Sleuth.  Happy Holidays.  I just had to check this out for myself.  I found that E! is owned 50.1% by Comcast and 49.9% by Disney (20/20 ABC)  I guess we'll soon know if it's new. 

Top Five Sociopaths (some alleged) of 2008 (In no particular order)

Joran van der Sloot
Drew Peterson
O.J. Simpson
Casey Anthony
Gary Michael Hilton
http://blogs.discovery.com/criminal_report/2008/12/most-fascinatin.html

Just bringing this over from Caylee's thread post by boomonkey

This must be the 4th year in a row for Joran making the list  ::MonkeyHaHa::

Peter R. de Vries had a peak this year with his sensational broadcasts on Joran van der Sloot. But 2009 will probably be very different to unpack. According to Peter van der Hurk, winner of The Sixth Sense(TV program), next year there will be an attack on the crime reporter.


Van der Hurk made his prediction in Life & Cooking(TV program), where he did various predictions for the new year. In the spring of 2009, the paranormal gifted man will get his own TV program on RTL4.

An attack on Peter R. de Vries. Let`s hope that Van der Hurk is wrong.

Is this Van der Hurk a psychic?  What a creepy prediction, not to mention the power of suggestion.   ::MonkeyRoll::

Yeah you`re right, i never saw him and think i will keep it that way. IMO he`s a creap to.
I don`t think he`s a psychic. Or did you mean `psychiatric patient`?  ::MonkeyHaHa::

Two sociopaths on the lose and still targeting women.  I hope 2009 puts an end to both one way or another.

FYI - no new documents filed...next hearing date Kalpoe vs. Dr. Phil:

Future Hearings
01/26/2009 at 08:30 am in department 69 at 111 North Hill Street, Los Angeles, CA 90012
Motion to Compel (Further Interrogatory Responsesand Production of Documents (4);2) Second Motion to Dismiss andRequest for Terminating Sanctions3) Case Management Conference)

I won it Edward and yes it was rigged.  ::MonkeyLaugh::

You need to do a download for a freebie adblocker plus to keep the popups from happening.

Klaas , I hope the judge just laughs at the Kalpoes. Actually I am wrong I would really like to see all those documents released. There has to be a reason for the ones Dr. Phil attorney's have requested.

I continue praying for Justice for Natalee and her family.

Sam

Well heck, If you are winning, I better let it pop up again, so I can get into the game. ::MonkeyWink::

12/27/2008 Confession Club

http://www.magic965.com/pictures/thumbnails.php?album=1334

(http://www.magic965.com/pictures/albums/DEC2008/271208%20CONFESSIONS1/Confessions_169.JPG)

(http://www.magic965.com/pictures/albums/DEC2008/271208%20CONFESSIONS/Confessions_54.JPG)

I never realized that Val looked like Anita, but he does on those
pictures.  IMO

Those are not the same guys in the two pictures.

Hi casa,
You're right Maki Wiggins is in the second pic.  I saw Magnolia's comment but thought she might have gone to the link.  There were three or four shots of Val there; I only posted one of them.

http://awemainta.com/home/

12/29/2008 Awe Mainta Front Page


(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b258/texasmom55/JVDS/12292008AweMaintaFP.jpg)

Papiamentu translation:

joran at laos

all cos is indica cu joran van der sloot is huyendo p’e arm largo of husticia. assure cu now the will owing to compronde cu husticia at aruba, cual past owing to come is burla, have pruebanan new contra of his person y cu debi ne ultimo here not owing to close the caso contra of dje at aruba. if the not had nothing of sconde, then the will not have to owing to stay huy of one country for another.

12/29/2008 Awe Mainta Page 4

(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b258/texasmom55/JVDS/12292008AweMaintaPg4.jpg)

Papiamentu translation:

monday 29 of december 2008 awemainta pg 4 local

his pelicula is yegando his end...... joran van der sloot, one biahero much caro but is that is pay his gastunan pe? amsterdam/laos - all cos is indica cu joran van der sloot is huyendo p’e arm largo of husticia. assure cu now the will owing to compronde cu husticia at aruba, cual past owing to come is burla, have pruebanan new contra of his person y cu debi ne ultimo here not owing to close the caso contra of dje at aruba. if the not had nothing of sconde, then the will not have to owing to stay huy of one country for another. after of hazaña they at thailand now turistanan dutch european owing to come señala joran van der sloot at laos. this is just one day first cu pasco. laos is town of republica democratico laos in continente of asia y is rondona for paisnan as thailand, china, cambodja y vietnam. joran van der sloot after of was live in one villa much riante at tailandia owing to huy for dje country here after cu once more the reportero investigativo for casonan criminal peter rudolf de vries owing to come graba filmacionnan scondi of dje where the wanted owing to sell some lady because; prostituta cu one man dutch. esnan cu owing to raporta at the netherlands of come across cu joran is tell cu they owing to come strike in dje in one bar in the town upstairs menciona. is deal of one bar much conoci for turistanan y is take away of name bucks bar in the district vang vieng. but con come joran van der sloot have so tanto coin? past owing to bandona aruba after of blunder cu owing to being comete in investigacion in his contra cu yudanza of several amigo of the father y autoridadnan of om, of acuerdo cu the own minister of husticia, rudy croes, that owing to let haci one investigacion. joran have to owing to come study at the netherlands, but owing to come is busca as of sell drugs y arise one plantacion of marihuana together cu patrick van eem. this was his desire. play poker at big y smoke marihuana all day. this do not study. his comportacion is uno simplemente criminal y have to is being instrui for others, already cu the is know good con for sconde till aworaki. but of the know ey tampoko the do not. this will nifica cu his pelicula one hour for another can termina y the screen will stay dark pe because; his family cu owing to malcri’e y acepta his bagamunderianan till cu aworaki.

http://awemainta.com/home/

12/29/2008 Awe Mainta Pg 8

(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b258/texasmom55/Misc%20News%204/12292008AweMaintaPg8.jpg)

Papiamentu translation:

tourist owing to accidenta on sea cu tube of watersport yesterday afternoon, strand politie owing to being send n’e beach near of marriott, for one caso of one accidente cu had on sea. the first informe achieve is, cu the tourist will was on one of the tube of one compania of watersport y for one or another motibo owing to hay’e in one accidente. the have to owing to being take away hospital for remark. kico exactly owing to sosode, do not mucho cla for we.

http://awemainta.com/home/

12/29/2008 Awe Mainta Page 4

(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b258/texasmom55/JVDS/12292008AweMaintaPg4.jpg)

Papiamentu translation:

monday 29 of december 2008 awemainta pg 4 local

his pelicula is yegando his end...... joran van der sloot, one biahero much caro but is that is pay his gastunan pe? amsterdam/laos - all cos is indica cu joran van der sloot is huyendo p’e arm largo of husticia. assure cu now the will owing to compronde cu husticia at aruba, cual past owing to come is burla, have pruebanan new contra of his person y cu debi ne ultimo here not owing to close the caso contra of dje at aruba. if the not had nothing of sconde, then the will not have to owing to stay huy of one country for another. after of hazaña they at thailand now turistanan dutch european owing to come señala joran van der sloot at laos. this is just one day first cu pasco. laos is town of republica democratico laos in continente of asia y is rondona for paisnan as thailand, china, cambodja y vietnam. joran van der sloot after of was live in one villa much riante at tailandia owing to huy for dje country here after cu once more the reportero investigativo for casonan criminal peter rudolf de vries owing to come graba filmacionnan scondi of dje where the wanted owing to sell some lady because; prostituta cu one man dutch. esnan cu owing to raporta at the netherlands of come across cu joran is tell cu they owing to come strike in dje in one bar in the town upstairs menciona. is deal of one bar much conoci for turistanan y is take away of name bucks bar in the district vang vieng. but con come joran van der sloot have so tanto coin? past owing to bandona aruba after of blunder cu owing to being comete in investigacion in his contra cu yudanza of several amigo of the father y autoridadnan of om, of acuerdo cu the own minister of husticia, rudy croes, that owing to let haci one investigacion. joran have to owing to come study at the netherlands, but owing to come is busca as of sell drugs y arise one plantacion of marihuana together cu patrick van eem. this was his desire. play poker at big y smoke marihuana all day. this do not study. his comportacion is uno simplemente criminal y have to is being instrui for others, already cu the is know good con for sconde till aworaki. but of the know ey tampoko the do not. this will nifica cu his pelicula one hour for another can termina y the screen will stay dark pe because; his family cu owing to malcri’e y acepta his bagamunderianan till cu aworaki.
[/quote]

So far into the case to be reaching such an elementary conclusion that Paulus "knew of the case."
Which Einstein finally figured this one out ????

 ::MonkeyConfused::

Hi Cageman,
I hope you will give us your impression of the Awe Mainta articles about Joran if you have the time.  Thank you in advance!  As always the translation tools leave much to be desired.

I came across this article tonight, I don't remember it being posted recently in reference to the Persistence search for Natalee; if it has I apologize.  There is not a date I can find for when it was published, but I think it must have been from Nov. 2007.

http://www.katc.com/Global/story.asp?S=7428547

Crews Leave Acadiana To Search For Natalee Holloway
 
David D'Aquin
 
(KATC)-- An international story takes on an Acadiana angle Thursday. Crews from Acadiana are on their way to Aruba to help in the search for Natalee Holloway. Holloway has been missing for two and a half years.

In St. Martin Parish Thursday-- Holloway's father who said he is excited about the search. He went on further, and said he is looking for closure. That "closure" wouldn't be possible without the help of strangers.

"We just didn't have the capabilities," said Dave Holloway, "Louis Shaefer found out about it and said, 'i've got the ability.' I've got the expertise. I've got the equipment, and I can do the job."

Louis Shaefer is retired after working off shore for more than 40 years. He's paying for the million dollar project.

"I'm just lucky that I'm at the right place at the right time," said Shaefer.

"we're just so thankful that he's got a big heart and is willing to do that," said Holloway.

The ship is the research vessel "Persistance," owned by Marine Services in Lafayette. It will take about seven days to make the journey from the Port of Iberia to Aruba.

"i've got a feeling that if she's in the ocean, these gusy are going to find her," said Holloway, who will be staying in U.S. while crews search for his daughter. He said, he knows his daughter is dead, and doesn't want to be there when she is found, "the FBI told us that Natalee's not with us anymore. And, as a parent, you always hope that wasn't the case. But, in reality, we know that already."

Well, the article states that Joran is on the run to escape for the long arms of justice. It also states that if he hasn't done anything wrong there should be no necessity to run. He left Aruba after some blunders during the investigation against him and after some help of some friends of his father. After some "heroic" actions in Thailand, tourists have seen him now in Laos. Probably because he has been nailed again by the crime-reporter P.R de Vries.
Furthermore the article wonders how Joran gets money. He should be studying in Holland but instead he is selling drugs and setting up a marihuana-plantation. He also is gambling playing poker. His behaviour is criminal-like. The writer expects that some day the curtain will fall for Joran and his family.

(Very loose translation!)

Jan Willem

Thank you for the translation.

So now he is setting up a marihuana plantation.  This is amazing.  Runs from one country to another thinking of all these new illegal business transactions.  Like father like son.

Apparently, they share the same 'protection' agency  ::MonkeyWink::

If it were you or I, or any of the monkeys -- and it was this public -- we'd be in jail.

I hope your holidays were beautiful San -- warmest wishes for the upcoming new year.

Justice for Natalee

I agree that we would all be in jail.  How society lets this monster roam the streets boggles my mind.

Happy Holidays to you and your family.

Before people jump to soon into conclusions, literally the article states he is looking for ways for selling drugs en setting up a marihuana-plantation. I should have made a more proper translation. Remember that I have to make a double translation: first from Papiamento to Dutch and than to English.

I understand that but he is still looking for ways to do illegal activities.  Nothing he does is legal.  He has been like this since he was in his teens.

Thank you Cageman!   ::MonkeyCool::

Yes, what a fine, upstanding sporter he is.   ::MonkeyRoll::

Cageman, your translation is much appreciated.

2009 is upon us and i'm still keeping the faith that there are some secret witnesses..........No.I'm not holding my breath. ::MonkeyDance::

After 3 1/2 years I have learned never to hold my breath concerning this case.

http://www.amigoe.com/artman/publish/artikel_50958.php

Google translation:

(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b258/texasmom55/Misc%20News%204/12292008Amigoe.jpg)

Maybe he picked up some agricultural tips from LVR.

 ::MonkeyWink::  The following was not in my every day vocabulary, so I looked it up.

plen⋅i⋅po⋅ten⋅ti⋅ar⋅y   /ˌplɛnəpəˈtɛnʃiˌɛri, -ʃəri/ Show Spelled Pronunciation  [plen-uh-puh-ten-shee-er-ee, -shuh-ree] Show IPA Pronunciation 
noun, plural -ar⋅ies, adjective
–noun 1. a person, esp. a diplomatic agent, invested with full power or authority to transact business on behalf of another.
–adjective 2. invested with full power or authority, as a diplomatic agent.
3. conferring or bestowing full power, as a commission.
4. absolute or full, as power.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Origin:
1635–45; < ML plēnipotentiārius. See plenipotent, -i-, -ary
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)
Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.
Cite This Source

I would add..."hold back my vomit".  May just be me.

I would imagine that he may be working on his education through distance learning.  Maybe internet courses, correspondence courses, or mail order diploma?  Maybe the plantation is an apprenticeship?  Maybe he got a micro-loan for his startup?  OJT?

jmho

Those who were part of the coverup regarding the happenings on the morning of May 30, 2005 ... the morning when an American citizen went missing and was never seen again ... whisked away the contents of the cage/trap discovered as a result of the Persistence undertaking ... whisked away the contents of the cage/trap without so much of a challenge by the John Silvetti ... John Silvetti  who was in charge of the Persistence undertaking.

Kyle Kingman has shared through the leaked ROV images as well as his own words that John Silvetti possessed underlying motives in regards to the chain of custody of the contents of the trap/cage to the enemy ... underlying motives that had nothing to do with justice for Natalee Holloway or a measure of closure for a long-suffering family ... motives that were self-serving.

Kyle Kingman could possibly be the hero who Beth Holloway felt in her heart would eventually emerge.

If Kyle would expose his observations/concerns/suspicions while he was employed in a professional capacity on board the Persistence undertaking concerning the John Silvetti/ALE connection ... pressure could be brought upon the Aruban "powers that be" regarding the contents of the trap/cage.

If Kyle were to step forward and do right because it is right ... if this young man would reveal ALL to the FBI and the family while aware that in all probability there will be personal consequences ...

Janet

+++++

OPRAH WINFREY SHOW
January 27, 2008

BETH HOLLOWAY: ... we've never really relied on an investigative approach to find an answer to Natalee. I think what we've relied on more heavily is that at any given moment something unexpected could happen and we really feel anyone could talk at any moment.
 
http://www2.oprah.com/world/politics/slide/20080116/politics_284_203.jhtml


KYLE KINGMAN'S POSTS SUBMITED TO A PRIVATE FORUM

Kyle: John is not a believer in the trap. He took ALE's word as gospel that it wasn't case related, yet never studied the videos or bothered to inquire further. He had plans on doing business with Aruba and in S. America and he didn't want to hurt any feelings by talks hinting at lack of complete trust and friendship.

Kyle: Notice the end of the skirt is an identical match to the 90 degree angle in the sand. I believe her left arm was outstretched with her legs slightly bent. I did not edit the legs. I believe the tarp was placed over her and tucked around her, or perhaps tied down. I believe there are several rocks laying on the sand which were placed on the tarp, or inside the tarp over her body which explains their unusual location. Either way, the proportions appear promising.

Kyle: I took the proportions of the body form from the head, to shoulder, to a 90 degree angle which I believed to be the hem line of Natalee's skirt. I then took those proportions and matched them to the photo of Natalee with what she was last seen wearing. The proportions matched within an inch from head, to shoulder, to skirt line. Based on this comparison and with what we believed we saw in the Dec 29th video, Tim Miller contacted the family and told them the 99.9% comment. I told Tim not to do anything until we have forensic results back after the site is processed. Jan 7th we sampled the contents and in my opinion we found the skirt under the sand along with the other items The blue fabric was found right where the skirt is pictured. If it isn't her, it will forever haunt me as a major cosmic WTF.

Just like Dave Holloway, we all trusted them to do the right thing if and when they found her!   ::MonkeyNoNo::

Thanks texasmom.

The family of Natalee Holloway has no idea that the "game was fixed." and ... those who sacrificially donated to the Persistence undertaking had no idea that it was nothing but a hoax and ... that they were being scammed.

Janet
________

BROTHER OF BETH HOLLOWAY'S POST TO THE SCARED MONKEYS FORUM

Private Eye: "If I understood Kyle correctly, and that would be that the Arubans retrieved and possessed all finds, not sharing anything with the crew, then that effort was a waste of time and effort. The only thing it could have accomplished was to locate additional evidence for the Arubans to destroy. ... The effort was superb, but the game was fixed."

"We just didn't have the capabilities," said Dave Holloway, "Louis Shaefer found out about it and said, 'i've got the ability.' I've got the expertise. I've got the equipment, and I can do the job."

Louis Shaefer is retired after working off shore for more than 40 years. He's paying for the million dollar project.

"I'm just lucky that I'm at the right place at the right time," said Shaefer.


This has bothered me since reading it a year ago.

I'm still very curious as to how he got to be so 'lucky'

 ::MonkeyConfused:: ::MonkeyConfused::

I don't remember reading it then, but it is really bothering me now; and I want to know the answer to that too!   ::MonkeyNoNo::

Keepthefaith ... witnesses have come and gone since the getgo but ....

 ::MonkeyNoNo::

Janet

+++++


THE GARDENER

Carlos Ramos - Gardener
Court Hearing
August 15, 2005

I have seen the car in the morning of 30 May of Sunday on Monday. I went to Lorena on Monday night, then I went to work, told that I saw a car standing along the way when I drove along there. I cannot remember on which day I saw the photograph of the persons in the newspaper. The photograph, which the police force showed me, is the same photograph as the photograph that appeared in the Diario. You ask me how can I know or recognize the persons from the photograph in the newspaper or that I had seen that night. The first time then I saw the photograph in the Diario I had been astonished and I said that to colleagues. You represent me that I have explained that I have recognized the persons from their construction and mail hour. You ask me if I could see from my position in the car. My position was a bit is higher, in the turning I had drive concerning a sand hill as a result of which my position was a bit slanted. As a result, I could look at in the car. I have recognized the car from the rims. Also to the color and the transparent squares. You ask me if I can designate the persons, which sat in the car. Yes.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=271.msg41646;topicseen#msg41646


Gardener - Carlos Alberto Penata Ramos
Court Testimony
August 15, 2005

I looked and saw that on my watch it was at 02:30. For 03.00 I was at my work. I’m not sure exactly how precise it is. When I encountered the car in question, it was on that dirt road. I had slowed down to drive past there. The lights of my car "from" shining on that car. The person beside the driver, kept its hand for its head and face. I saw that the driver slid a bit to the back.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=271.msg41646;topicseen#msg41646


THE GARDENER - JOSSY MANSUR

NANCY GRACE
Nancy Grace for July 26, 2005, CNNHN
Aired July 26, 2005 - 20:00:00 ET

MANSUR: Because they were trying to hide their faces at that the hour, because we have to remember that the two Kalpoe brothers and Joran held on to the statement that they dropped Joran off at the beach and then went home. But here we have someone that says categorically that they did not go home, they were in the car with Joran. Joran was sitting in the driver`s seat.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0507/26/ng.01.html


THE GARDENER - BETH HOLLOWAY

CNN LARRY KING LIVE
Update on Natalee Holloway Investigation
Aired February 23, 2006 - 21:00 ET

BETH HOLLOWAY TWITTY: ... Deepak panicked. He panicked when the gardener gave that testimony. That very afternoon, he called an Aruban girl to help him establish an alibi. She, in turn, panicked. She called FBI. She dialed the 1-877-NATALEE number and told them that she did not want to be involved in this.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0602/23/lkl.01.html


THE GARDENER - DAVE HOLLOWAY

Hannity & Colmes
August 10, 2005

HOLLOWAY: Seems like every time someone speaks out or comes forward. Just like the gardener, he is supposed to appear in court Thursday then be immediately deported. That is the work of the defense of course. Some witnesses may be scared to come forward for fear of repercussions.

This one sentence in Kyles's post has Me wondering Does the FBI know.....

Jan 7th we sampled the contents and in my opinion we found the skirt under the sand along with the other items The blue fabric was found right where the skirt is pictured.


Who is We....Is it the Good Guys or the Bad Guys....and where are the samples....did the Persistence Crew sample the contents prior to ALE and were they given to the FBI? I still think that the FBI knows alot more than We do.....At least I hope that they do....I think that We will learn some very interesting things in the near future.....JMHO!

Thank you Janet. 

It is disgusting beyond belief to me that this was a "game" at all!  (http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b258/texasmom55/Greetings/smileys/mad.gif)

Kyle's words implies that the sampling of the contents of the cage/trap took place underwater.  He states that he viewed the process from a video.

Janet

++++++

ocean exploration (Kyle)
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #744 3/19 -
« Reply #201 on: March 19, 2008, 08:21:47 PM »

We had little option other than to have the Aruban dive division recover the samples and bring them back under their care.  Remember we are Americans working in Aruban waters, subject to their laws, invitation, and blessing.  Our hands are tied for the most part. I personally was extremely uncomfortable with the chain of custody, being that we weren't a part of it, but I was powerless to do anything about it.   The samples were photographed in detail by one Aruban diver and the other two investigated the contents of the trap, the dimensions, the rigging, and what surrounded the trap.  From the video, it looked like they did a diligent and careful job with the samples and the underwater photography.  I don't know who has these pictures, but I must assume ALE.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2721.msg366857#msg366857

I can't dispute your calculations, because it most certainly is not my area of expertise, but could the sea water and sand movement wear down bones?  Having been to the ocean's shore here, I've seen many shells, etc. that are worn but have no idea what the conditions are like at 90 ft in the Caribbean. 

Hi Bastibro,
I'm not sure the actual size can be determined from the pictures we've viewed, it was discussed a while back and this was somewhat explained.  If I can find those posts, I will repost them.

Perhaps it is the skull of a child?  Simian?  Miniature donkey?

Keepthefaith ... witnesses have come and gone since the getgo ...

Deepak Kalpoe related to one of the security guards while they were both detained that Paulus was a participant the Holliday collaboration.

Where is Mickey John today?  Where is his official statement?

Janet

+++++++++++++

The Holliday Inn Fabrication

Mickey John
On the Record w/ Greta
June 29, 2005

JOHN: ... He (Deepak) said a story being made up about dropping the girl of at a Holiday Inn, was all something being made up. He, and the Dutch guy, and the Dutch guy's father, they sit and made up the story.

VAN SUSTEREN: The father, too?

JOHN: All of them. They made up...

VAN SUSTEREN: Did he specifically say — Deepak specifically say to you the father was part of that?

JOHN: Deepak told me that he and the family sit down and they made up the story.

VAN SUSTEREN: So family and not father?

JOHN: Well, I don't know who the family consists of. But I know the father was involved, according to him.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,161044,00.html

Yes Blonde, it is illegal here to sell any drugs(with the exception of the so-called coffee shops).
Setting up plantations is also illegal.
I`m convinced he will not try to start his marijuana plantation in Thailand or in Laos, he would have very big problems if he gets caught there  ::MonkeyHaHa::

It's all there Janet!All for the FREEDOM of Paulus's little boy Joran?Or Paulus himself?I'm still leaning in the direction of Paulus playing a active role in the murder itself.Joran,Deepak,as well as Satish are not that important to cover this whole thing up.... ::MonkeyConfused::

I guess i`ve missed that TexasMom. I took the measurements of the cage and the squares and came to a proportionately skullsize.

Maybe sponge bob`s  ::MonkeyHaHa::

Bastibro,
I think this is the post I recall, it wasn't specifically about the skull but explains how size can be hard to tell in this circumstance.  Private Eye asked the question, the response is from oceanexploration.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?action=profile;u=3285;sa=showPosts;start=100

Hi Johan!  ::MonkeyWink::

hey ouwe reus ! alles goed ?  ::MonkeyHaHa::

Thank you TM! The size is correct.
The cage size doesn't change in the water and i think the skull size would also not become smaller at a depth of 90 ft.
A human skull would almost be 1 third of the cage height.

LOL ja hOOr, met jou ook? Ik lees niet zo veel van je de laatste tijd. How come?

(http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj176/bastibro/verwant/2345841784_52614dbecb_ocopy.jpg)

The mandible is a large portion of the skull.  Chances are that the mandible was not attached to the remainder of the skull, if it is a skull.

Cageman

Thank you for the summary translation. I understand the multiple steps needed to translate and that the final product might need clarification.  Your translations are a whole lot better than the online versions.

Jug Twitty recognized very early on that the domino effect in regards to accountability dictated that justice for his stepdaughter would never come from an Aruban or Dutch courtroom.  Therefore ... the affording of a measure of closure for the family was where it was at.

It is my contention that a measure of closure for the family of Natalee Holloway dictates THE PERSISTENCE HOAX MUST BE EXPOSED ... THE CONTENTS OF THE CAGE/TRAP MUST BE REVEALED!!

Janet

++++++++

'Scarborough Country' for July 14
updated 8:45 a.m. PT, Fri., July. 15, 2005

JUG TWITTY, NATALEE HOLLOWAY'S STEPFATHER: Beth and I have been through this emotional roller coaster. And all we want is Natalee, whether she's alive or dead. We want to bring her back to the United States, and we'll leave and they can do whatever they want to do.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8551824/

 

I believe the trap was 7.5 feet wide or approx. 90 inches.  Each one of the outlined sections (three in total) would be 30 inches wide.  There appears to be about 21 little squares across each 30 inch section.  That would make each little square about 1.5 inches wide.  The skull appears to be about 4 little boxes long or 6 inches....about the correct size...without the mandible.  :smt102

i think you`re right Buckeye, but the skull is relatively way to small. ::MonkeyShocked::

I have exactly the same measurements, however in my opinion the skull covers 3 boxes  ::MonkeyWink::

CAGE/TRAP DIMENSIONS

private eye (Beth Holloway's Brother)
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #739 3/3 -
« Reply #88 on: March 03, 2008, 06:25:13 PM »

Any estimations as to the dimensions and weight of the cage, or based upon the general conditions of the cage, coral build up, rust, etc. how long the cage had been submersed? It looked awfully large, but water can distort sizes to a certain extent. It looked a lot larger than the cages that would have been at the fishermans hut.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2668.msg360066#msg360066


oceanexploration (Kyle Kingman)
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #739 3/3 -
« Reply #92 on: March 03, 2008, 06:35:58 PM »

The trap was symmetrical in width and length at approximately 7.5 ft. It was approximately 2.25-2.5 ft high.  You're correct about the ROV video lens distorting perspective due to the paralax view lens.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2668.msg360072;topicseen#msg360072

Thanks Janet,

The trap stolen from one of the FH was much smaller.
5.5x4 ft with a height of 1.4 ft.

kerst tijd ! heb allemaal familie over de vloer en die willen ook aandacht !

johan555 San and bastibro San

Wakarimasen

Arigatogozaimus

Janet

haha ok, das ook erg belangrijk, en gezellig ::MonkeyHaHa::

lorenzo-paul  ::MonkeyHaHa::

(http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh25/johan555/pvdslvrcomparekopie.jpg)

DANA PRETZER
June 18, 2006

MANSUR:  I do know what our reporters have been able to find, Lorenzo is a half brother of Joran. He has a boat. He lives in a secluded section of the island, very close to Joran. I don't know if he was questioned, but people mention his name quite often in regard to this case.

http://sundaynightsatellite.libsyn.com/index.php?post_year=2006&post_month=06&post_day=18


Dave Holloway
Question and Answer Chat - BFN
January 23, 2006

14. Why was the school bus driver called the next morning and told to pick up Joran at Lorenzo's house?
 
DAVE HOLLOWAY: Joran was allegedly dropped off at a bus stop on the main highway. The bus driver had not made it there yet and saved Paulus about 30 minutes. Lorenzo's house was nearby.

http://blogsfornatalee.com/forum/index.php?topic=2256.0

Where were Tim Miller, Kyle, John Silvetti, and the Dateline crew, not to mention every other person on the Persistence who were in the area watching the monitors, when this image from the ROV flashed on the monitors?  This was taken 60 seconds after the 'thumbs down'.  That is why I am not sure we are seeing human remains here.  If they saw this on the monitor and didn't ask 'How can you give the thumbs down?' to Tim Trahan, then are we sure those are humain remains???

 I figure that the only diver aboard the Persistence went down and
and gave the thumbs down and nobody questioned his observations.
He had seen inside the trap first hand and they had only seen images
from the ROV.
It could not be Natalee in the trap if the Persistence was to continue
on its mission to map the ocean floor.  Tim Trahan was a part of the
scam before the Persistence ever left Louisiana.  I feel certain that
he and Silvetti had discussed what his signal would be before he
ever made the dive.

This is the explanation that Kyle gave after it was questioned back in March.  The explanation in itself poses even more questions in my opinion.  One being, why were they out of dive time?  Magnolia may be right.   ::MonkeyNoNo::     

This is the link for the discussion where Kyle's explanation was posted.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2668.msg360282#msg360282

OFF TOPIC



Topic: PEACHES "rally", prayer and encouragement thead! R.I.P SWEET PEACHES  

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1870.780

The point was...what about ALL those people, Tim Miller included, who were sitting there watching the monitor.  They had to have seen that image.  And NOBODY SAID..."What the hell is that!"  We are talking no more than 60 seconds from the thumbs down till this image is taken by the ROV.  You would have to believe that EVERYONE sitting there was in on some kind of conspiracy.  I know Tim Miller was not, and I doubt Dateline was.  I'm not so sure I can just assume this was a conspiracy from the getgo. 

I know..I know...I may get run off the forum like others have, but gee whizz!  If this conspiracy gets any bigger it will include the entire universe outside of the few people left posting here.

Maybe those are human remains, maybe not.  I just cannot believe not one person looked at that initial image in the monitor and said nothing at all.

Thanks for posting this.  i had not seen it until now.  My heart goes out to the family.  Peaches was one strong lady.  May God bless and keep her.

truthseeker2

I am so sad about Peaches.  My heart aches for her family.

In His Holy Name,?  You have gone too far!  Several of you seem to think that KYLE was in charge of this trip.  All his job was, was to look at the footage, that is it!  he did his job!  He handed over all of what had to be handed over.  I do believe klaas said about a week ago to keep the peace here, and all you can do is keep preaching the same quotes over and over again.  People are getting tired of seeing the same thing, day in and day out.  when is this all going to stop?  I am making a call to Dave tomorrow, along with all the others who have touched base with him, just to let him know what is going on here, and what he thinks about people bashing the crew.  I am sure he wont be too thrilled to see that people are bashing these people who took months out of their lives, and millions to go and search.  I can't believe that people are stooping so low to think any of this!  It only shows some have too much time on their hands.  I am proud to be a monkey, but not with whats been talked about over the last month or so.  Some here don't even know me but despise me, and thats fine.....  i dont care what you think.  i have done my talk, done my walk.  Now lets see some of you do some walking and get up and do something about Natalaee being missing.  Stop the bashing, thats not what this site is about.  Deal with FACTS, now with what someone says to be Gospel.  Trust me, if vicky is who she says she is, and knows who she says she knows, things would have been done by now.... Really, "c'mon" think about it.  Geezzzzz

I'm with you on this one, Hotshot.  This has gone on and on now, and I see less and less interest in this forum.  I know if we have seen this, then the family has seen it and I trust they will handle things accordingly.  Until I see more proof that these are human remains....well, the search continues.

So when is it up to you to decide what are fair questions that some of us are asking? I have a real problem with anyone who tells me what I should think or do regarding this case. These are LEGITIMATE questions and concerns  -- to hell with playing "nice" with anyone here. You don't know anything more than the rest of us.

It was difficult for Tim Miller to comprehend the findings in regards to the contents of the cage.  He had been so sure that the initial ROV images he viewed prior to the dive revealed the remains of Natalee Holloway.  However ... he had no choice.

However ... Kyle Kingman held a professional position on board the Persistance.  In his own words on both the SM forum and a private forum ... Kyle exposed his perspective regarding the ongoing happenings encompassing the entire search ... the discovery and ... the chain of custody that he observed.  I believe his words.

Janet

+++++++

THE DATELINE SPECIAL

The search for Natalee Holloway
TRANSCRIPT
By Chris Hansen
Correspondent
NBC News
updated 5:20 p.m. PT, Fri., Feb. 22, 2008

Tim Miller: I stepped on the boat and said “Natalee we're coming to get you.” Now we're finally coming to get you. And I still believe that from the bottom of my heart. She's out here and now we're on our way.

Over the holiday season, the crew of the persistence worked day and night to survey the ocean floor and look for targets that could hold the key to finding Natalee.

On Christmas Eve sonar pictures revealed what looked like a large trap, almost exactly where Tim Miller theorized it would be.

And on Dec. 29 the crew dropped a remote operated vehicle, or ROV, into the water to get a closer look.

Tim Miller: It looked like a skull. Still looks like a skull.  ... In my years of searching we have seen several bodies, skeletal remains--I have seen my own daughter's skeletal remains. I can’t help but believe at this moment that that is human remains in that crab trap.  

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23301056/page/4/


The search for Natalee Holloway
TRANSCRIPT
By Chris Hansen
Correspondent
NBC News
updated 5:20 p.m. PT, Fri., Feb. 22, 2008

Dave Holloway: I got a phone call from Tim.

Chris Hansen: And what'd he say?

Dave Holloway: He told me, he said, "Dave, we found her."

Chris Hansen: "We found her?"

Dave Holloway: Yeah. I said, "Are you sure?" and he said, "I’m 99.9 percent sure."  He said, "We hadn't gone down and dove under or anything. But the photographs--"he said, "I tell you, Dave." I-- he said, "That's what we're looking for. And that's gotta-- that-- that's it."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23301056/page/4/


KYLE KINGMAN' - A PRIVATE FORUM

Kyle: John stood back and waited and worked with the Aruban Polis

Kyle: John definitely believed the Arubans at their every word

Kyle: John didn't want Tim Miller on board the Persistence because he said Tim wasn't necessary any more and was a liability.

Kyle: John told me then he didn't want to hear me ever mention the trap again.

Kyle: I did not feel the same and we had a major difference in opinion. He [John Silvetti] was the one who never pressed ALE to be completely open with us with the trap evidence. I would have forced them to. However, John was the one paying my invoices so I was forced to sit back and hope for the best.

Kyle: John is not a believer in the trap. He took ALE's word as gospel that it wasn't case related, yet never studied the videos or bothered to inquire further. He had plans on doing business with Aruba and in S. America and he didn't want to hurt any feelings by talks hinting at lack of complete trust and friendship.


KYLE KINGMAN - SM FORUM

ocean exploration (Kyle)
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #744 3/19 -
« Reply #201 on: March 19, 2008, 08:21:47 PM »

We had little option other than to have the Aruban dive division recover the samples and bring them back under their care.  Remember we are Americans working in Aruban waters, subject to their laws, invitation, and blessing.  Our hands are tied for the most part. I personally was extremely uncomfortable with the chain of custody, being that we weren't a part of it, but I was powerless to do anything about it.   The samples were photographed in detail by one Aruban diver and the other two investigated the contents of the trap, the dimensions, the rigging, and what surrounded the trap.  From the video, it looked like they did a diligent and careful job with the samples and the underwater photography.  I don't know who has these pictures, but I must assume ALE.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2721.msg366857#msg366857


oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #776 11/19-08
« Reply #705 on: November 20, 2008, 11:22:14 PM »

Tim Miller was never on the Persistence while I was not on board.  He stepped off on or about the 1st of Jan to follow up on the false lead in Costa Rica IIRC.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4153.msg551304#msg551304

What people are getting tired.  How do you know what people have done for Natalee and what they haven't.  There are people who don't need to announce every little shit they take.  Don't threaten people about calling Dave.

You know what I feel bad about?  I feel bad that Dave and Beth have had to get phone calls from a million different people over the last nearly 4 years.

I don't know who is right or who is wrong in this issue with the trap.  All I know is Joran van der Sloot and the Kalpoe brothers were supposed to take Natalee back to the Holiday Inn on May 30, 2005 and they didn't.  They did something to her and she's gone.  They are responsible along with others.

After all this time, I have a real hard time with anyone telling us what to or not to post about in this forum.

HOTSHOT - how do you know you are right?

KERMIT - how do you know you are right?


Reminds me of the old days and SandraK telling us not to talk about her "baby".

I know this is O/T but just in case someone misses it because they haven't ventured over to the lounge...rest in peace dear Peaches.

http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/candles.cfm?l=eng&gi=Peach

Thanks, Lala's.  I lit one there just a moment ago.

I am not tired of the quotes.  They are a good reminder.

Why don't you just call Dave tonight?

Natalee's story is E! right now.  Starting with Peter De Vries and Patrick tapes.

Hotshot

My words were addressed to Kyle ... not you.

I do believe that I am right on when I say that Kyle and I share a common faith and ... it was from that perspective I was attempting to reach him concerning his own words describing what he experienced on board the Persistence ... what he experienced on board the Persistence which implied that the huge undertaking was not all about justice for Natalee Holloway and ... not all about a measure of closure for her family.

Kyle is a young man but he is a man nevertheless.  He is also a husband and a father of a precious baby girl.  His qualifications in regard to his profession are above reproach.

Closure for Natalee Holloway's family dictates that Kyle shares ALL with the family and the FBI regarding his observations regarding the John S./Aruban connection.

Hotshot ... I have posted nothing that I would not have voiced to my own son if he were in Kyle's place.  Doing right is not easy but ... it is right.

Hotshot ... Kyle Kingman does not required anybody to speak on his behalf.  Kyle is a grown man and is fully capable of articulating his own words.  I am looking so forward to a dialogue with Kyle regarding this topic.

Janet

People who continue to say Kermit doesn't know what she is talking about have been on here on numerous occasion's as she has posted and have not tried to dialogue with Kermit!Why?If anyone doesn't believe Kermit why not confront Kermit with what you know?You can't tell because it will affect the investigation?????Please.....We've had this discussion a few times.Spit it out or scroll on by......

Kyle obviously had some concerns based on his own words.  At least Kyle was concerned enough (or had enough conscience) to share those concerns with others.  Those concerns bring questions.

Kermit thought we needed to know, I'm glad we do know.  I don't care who Kermit really is at least the frog thought enough of all of us to let us in on what the frog knows!

Janet, I would have said the same things to a son of mine if they were in Kyle's shoes.  As I'm sure you do also, I also have some things to say to others involved; if things were as they seem.

We all care about Natalee, and her family; if we didn't we wouldn't be here asking questions after all this time.

Anyone watching E?  Is it good?

It's all Cuomo doing a recap of the Peter DeVries/Patrick tapes.  Then comparing Joran's demeanor to the interview Cuomo did in 2006.  Cuomo seems to believe the story told to Patrick.

What is wrong with you people? I am so sorry, I had to jump in.
How self righteous can you get? That is ridiculous. How dare you slander someone you don't even know.
OMG! Kyle walked away from his trip to Aruba with a funny feeling and expressed his feelings to people who love Natalee just the same as you all do...in the Freebirds Forum where it could be openly discussed amongst others with the same principals...those dedicated to justice for Natalee...how dare you question his integrity or the integrity of his daughter's name. What happened to you all? I just can't believe it.
Like it or not, I am friends with Jug Twitty. Like it or not, he CAN speak for Beth. Like it or not, I have copied and pasted every slanderous post you have made against Kyle and the crew of the Persistence. Believe it or not, Jug has made contact with Kyle and Kyle with Jug over this BS and I can assure you, Jug thinks this is all BS!!!! Make fun of the exclamation points if you must, I am just so disappointed in what is happening here. So is Jug, so is Kyle who busted his butt to bring Natalee home.
This is wrong what you are doing, so wrong!!! Trust me when I tell you Natalee's family members are aware of what you all have accused Kyle and the crew of the Persistence of, they have Kyle's email address and telephone number, and they have nothing but RESPECT for what that man did in Aruba. This nonsense has got to stop. How can you all be so mean and spitefull to people who put their everything into bringing Natalee home to her family?

There are so few of us left here that I have to wonder why
the others went away to the secret hidey hole.

A rational mind would have to question the actions of Kyle
and Silvetti as to what was found in that fish cage.
Kyle said on this forum that human remains were found.
I want to know whose remain were there and where those
remains are now.

I'm watching Klaas.  Yes it's good; it's basically about the Peter/Patrick/Joran confession tapes.  It has also shown Beth's journey to that point.  (They showed Beth's speech after the Kalpoe's brothers release; breaks my heart everytime no matter how many times I see and hear it.)  Showed Beth going to Holland and meeting with Peter concerning the confession.   Ended with interviews with Joran denying anything and everything of course.  I've probably left out some stuff, I've been on here and watching too.

How does one get onto that Freebird site?  I sure would like to discuss this case without having to worry about saying anything that will have people fill up two pages of the same quotes over and over and over again.

Keep talking.

Tell Kyle to enjoy reading your copy and pastes.

He is the disappointment.

The truth shall set you free.

I have seen no rebuttal to the claims and reasoning that Kermit has shared. None. I asked Red if we were "off base" -- he told us that things were happening "behind the scenes" from the family (Beth.) I got no impression from him that we were "out of line" with our questions.

Thanks Texasmom!  I'm ashamed to say I couldn't find the channel for "E" on my TV.    ::MonkeyWink::  I think it's going to repeat tomorrow though.

I agree Wreck 100%.Again.Many posters have been on here when Kermit was in the middle of posting but didn't refute anything.I find ity strange that people are trying to argue with Kyle's own words.He said it not Kermit,and or anyone else......

Hotshot

In my ongoing mission of upholding the family in their contention that a corrupt Aruban investigation has denied Natalee Holloway justice ... I will continue to post over and over and over again Kyle Kingman's perspective regarding the happening which  he observed while employed in a profession capacity on board the Persistence.

I will not stop until the family is aware of ALL of Kyle's words ... words that imply the Persistence undertaking was not about justice for Natalee Holloway ... was not about closure for her family.  I will stop when the family is aware of John Silvetti self-serving actions ... self-serving actions which were a catalyst to THE FINALE' OF THE GREAT ARUBAN COVERUP.

The family deserves to know that Kyle Kingman believes that there is a possibility that Natalee's remains were retrieved by the enemy without so much as a challenge from John Silvetti.

Hotshot ... I would appreciate if you would submit to Dave Holloway the following list of quotes which I have compiled of Kyle's own words regarding the happenings encompassing the Persistence undertaking.

If you are not inclined ... please let me know and ... I will divert from my comfort zone and utilize my own email list.  It was my intentions to wait on Kyle Kingman to step up to the plate and do what is right.

Thank you.

Janet

++++++++


KYLE KINGMAN'S POSTS TO A PRIVATE FORUM

Kyle: I have not given anything to the FBI since the pictures and statements from Dec 29th

Kyle: None of us gave any statements to the authorities after the 29th. It's possible John Silvetti did, because he was the only one conversing with them after Jan 7th.

Kyle: I've talked with Peter Shouten numerous times back in February. He hasn't seen anything but knows about the blue fabrics. DeVries and Endemol was interested in purchasing the ROV footage and I was working between them, ABC, and CBS to strike a deal.

Kyle: In case it isn't clear.. notice the blue denim-like fabric

Kyle: The Aruban divers were on the police boat, dove from their boat, and returned to their boat.

Kyle: They were immediately whisked away by the Aruban police and not seen of again by us on the 7th

Kyle: John stood back and waited and worked with the Aruban Polis

Kyle: John definitely believed the Arubans at their every word

Kyle: John didn't want Tim Miller on board the Persistence because he said Tim wasn't necessary any more and was a liability

Kyle: John told me then he didn't want to hear me ever mention the trap again.

Kyle: Schafer is sue crazy.

Kyle: I did not feel the same and we had a major difference in opinion. He [John Silvetti] was the one who never pressed ALE to be completely open with us with the trap evidence. I would have forced them to. However, John was the one paying my invoices so I was forced to sit back and hope for the best.

Kyle: We all know it wasn't a blouse, but I believe they were sent some piece of fabric other than the fabric found inside the trap.

Kyle: I've talked with Peter Shouten numerous times back in February. He hasn't seen anything but knows about the blue fabrics. DeVries and Endemol was interested in purchasing the ROV footage and I was working between them, ABC, and CBS to strike a deal.

Kyle: Louis is currently working with someone who I do not know to put together some documentary on the case, the way it was handled, and what happened during the search. I learned this from Tim T. yesterday. Louis was sold on the idea that it will make him a lot of money.

Kyle: The portion of the discolored blue fabric was presumably on the bottom of the fabric. In my opinion this discoloration is not another type of fabric, but rather biological staining or discoloration from biological growth caused from a high organic carbon content and decay. Basically, during decay a biological mat will form around the organics from remains. This is what I believe it is on the bottom of the fabric.

Kyle: John Silvetti told me today that he may be returning to Aruba very soon for a few days.

Kyle: I couldn't get the logs from the Persistence. All things "Holloway" were stripped from the boat once it got back to Louisiana

Kyle: He's [John Silvetti] seriously making plans to open an Aruba office so he can conduct business easier in S. America and that would allow him to do that.

Kyle: It was confirmed by the FBI that they received a fabric sample send by Richardson and that it wasn't a match to Natalee's blouse. I think the video can prove or disprove whatever the FBI was sent was the same object or not. I strongly believe it's blue denim. Everyone I show thinks the same thing without being prompted (including senior ABC execs).

Klye: We're being fed misinformation to keep us searching and out of their way while they cover their asses, destroy evidence, cover their tracks, and keep us out at sea and away from the trap.

Kyle: neither Dave, Robin, or Beth has seen any of the ROV footage aside from what was broadcasted on Dateline or the pictures leaked from the FBI to Dave (and Robin H.). Beth has seen nothing in my knowledge.

Kyle: John is not a believer in the trap. He took ALE's word as gospel that it wasn't case related, yet never studied the videos or bothered to inquire further. He had plans on doing business with Aruba and in S. America and he didn't want to hurt any feelings by talks hinting at lack of complete trust and friendship.

Kyle: Notice the end of the skirt is an identical match to the 90 degree angle in the sand. I believe her left arm was outstretched with her legs slightly bent. I did not edit the legs. I believe the tarp was placed over her and tucked around her, or perhaps tied down. I believe there are several rocks laying on the sand which were placed on the tarp, or inside the tarp over her body which explains their unusual location. Either way, the proportions appear promising.

Kyle: I took the proportions of the body form from the head, to shoulder, to a 90 degree angle which I believed to be the hem line of Natalee's skirt. I then took those proportions and matched them to the photo of Natalee with what she was last seen wearing. The proportions matched within an inch from head, to shoulder, to skirt line. Based on this comparison and with what we believed we saw in the Dec 29th video, Tim Miller contacted the family and told them the 99.9% comment. I told Tim not to do anything until we have forensic results back after the site is processed. Jan 7th we sampled the contents and in my opinion we found the skirt under the sand along with the other items The blue fabric was found right where the skirt is pictured. If it isn't her, it will forever haunt me as a major cosmic WTF.

kyle: Richardson was onboard the Persistence several times and attended the meetings on the boat. You may see a glimpse of him on the Dateline video in the survey room along with Mos standing over my shoulder
 
 
KYLE KINGMAN'S POSTS TO THE SCARED MONKEYS FORUM

JANUARY 26, 2008

oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #715 1/25 -
« Reply #103 on: January 26, 2008, 12:38:25 PM »

Thought you all may find this interesting if you're willing to accept it-

To date, the Aruban police and dive team has been a tremendous help.  They've honestly done a great job. Over the last month we've established a very good working relationship based on openness and trust.  Most of the relationship success was due to getting the media out of the way and working together shoulder to shoulder over time.  We've helped each other however and whenever we can.  They've treated us with decency and respect and we have treated them as friends and allies, which they are. Most of the police and divers are new since this case started and both eager and careful to do things right.  I wish we had a month ahead of the project just to establish the relationships and trust. I know many of you would likely doubt this view, but it's based on the experiences in the field of the entire search team. I too was extremely worried, paranoid, and suspecting in the beginning.  Now, it's clear we're all working towards a common goal.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2539.msg332457;topicseen#msg332457
 

MARCH 19, 2008

oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #744 3/19 -
« Reply #201 on: March 19, 2008, 08:21:47 PM »

We had little option other than to have the Aruban dive division recover the samples and bring them back under their care.  Remember we are Americans working in Aruban waters, subject to their laws, invitation, and blessing.  Our hands are tied for the most part. I personally was extremely uncomfortable with the chain of custody, being that we weren't a part of it, but I was powerless to do anything about it.   The samples were photographed in detail by one Aruban diver and the other two investigated the contents of the trap, the dimensions, the rigging, and what surrounded the trap.  From the video, it looked like they did a diligent and careful job with the samples and the underwater photography.  I don't know who has these pictures, but I must assume ALE.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2721.msg366857;topicseen#msg366857

 
BROTHER OF BETH HOLLOWAY - SCARED MONKEYS FORUM

private eye
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
« Reply #499 on: April 09, 2008, 12:39:50 AM »

If I understood Kyle correctly, and that would be that the Arubans retrieved and possessed all finds, not sharing anything with the crew, then that effort was a waste of time and effort. The only thing it could have accomplished was to locate additional evidence for the Arubans to destroy. I am not sure if that was the protocol out of Aruba's waters though. The effort was superb, but the game was fixed.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2769.msg372245;topicseen#msg372245


THE ROV IMAGES

Re: Natalee Case Discussion #778 11/23/08 -
« Reply #408 on: November 24, 2008, 03:59:08 PM »

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4173.msg555618#msg555618
 
 
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #778 11/23/08 -
« Reply #410 on: November 24, 2008, 04:01:55 PM »

Photos given to the FBI sent to Dave and Robin posted on the internet are NOT the
photos posted above.  These were not given to the FBI until recently.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4173.msg555621#msg555621
 
++++++++++
 
Kyle Kingman
Senior Geophysical Project Manager at Alpine Ocean Seismic Survey Inc.
Greater New York City Area

Current
Senior Geophysical Operations Manager at Alpine Ocean Seismic Survey Inc.
 
Past
Manager at Kingman Geophysical Solutions
 
Education
Rutgers, The State University of New Jersey-New Brunswick
 
Industry
Oil & Energy

++++++++

I'm sure you will be getting an email soon.  If not I guess you are stuck here with us people who have no principals and are nuts.

I stand with the nuts.

 ::MonkeyDance:: Scared Monkey's. ::MonkeyDance::

Well, that just proved my point.  Either you agree with the Kyle-bashing...or you might as well not post here anymore.  Sad,  Really sad.

I didn't prove any point.  Your post was unwarranted.  I have not bashed Kyle.  The only two people who I see bashing is Hotshot and ldstlou.

I have no idea, I was never asked...nor  am I offended by that. I don't know what everyone is talking about either when they speak of the "private forums" that have been created lately. Nor have I talked to Kyle in weeks. I was satisfied with what he told me after I spoke with him. He is what you all once thought he was...a very intelligent young man who threw his heart into Natalee's case just the same as all of us did.
I have real problem with Kermit. I know it will tick you off...but I have to speak my piece. If she had been honest and said..look...I am a member of Freebirds and Kyle was alarmed by some things that went down in Aruba and I want to share them with you because no one can dissect the truth like the Monkeys can...so I want to share his concerns with you. He can't due to confidentiality agreements but I feel the info is worth breaking my confidentiality agreement so here it is...then she would have my utmost respect. But that is not the way she chose to do it. Instread she took Kyle's concerns and turned them into some "conspiracy" that she "alone uncovered" and in the process...bastardized everything the members of the Persistence did.  I scream out and use my explanation points not out of some love for Kyle, but out of my own sense of right and wrong. I am sorry if you don't understand that.
Kyle owes you all nothing, he owes me nothing!! I didn't know the man when this all started but I have his email just the same as you all do and I respected him enough to send him a note and he respected me enough to answer. That is all!! Jeeze...can you all imagine what would have happened if you had given him the same consideration?

I'm sure you will be getting an email soon.  If not I guess you are stuck here with us people who have no principals and are nuts.

I stand with the nuts.


************************************************************

I don't think I have ever been so proud to be a Nutty Monkey. ::MonkeyTongue::

EXCUSE ME?  Nobody is bashing Kyle we are only seeking an explanation of what appears to be some pretty damning words out of HIS mouth. 

Nobody is saying you have to agree with ANYONE.  OTHERS are trying to tell us what we can discuss and research here and they have no right to.  Nothing is beyond discussion.  NOTHING.

Confidentialty agreement?With whom?

baloney San, you have a beef...I don't know why or where it came from...but you have a beef. When did I ever disrespect anyone here. I had nothing but the utmost respect for everyone on this board. I don't know what happened...but it changed.

I don't understand how posting Kyle's own words is bashing Kyle.  If Kyle's words are being taken out of context then he can refute them. 

Folks I think some are missing an important point here.

I can respect those that are willing to help search for Natalee. I can respect those that help search for any missing person. However, there is a purpose and a stated goal when going into such a mission.

It is ok to question, in fact, that is what SM is all about. If one never questions, one is only propaganda. I questioned many things about this search from the outset and received some pretty hostile and petty emails back in return questioning my loyalties. If you want to see bashing ... I'll show ya bashing and making ill comments when some have less than a clue.

Some people who got involved in this case and were late to the show really should have listened, read and became more learned before they acted as if they knew everything. Do not ever forget that long before there was an ocean search ... there was one on land.

Do I applaud the Persistence and their efforts, of course I do. Do I also scratch my head and ask why with a known budget and time did they not search more targets than map a larger area and leave things unsearched ... of course I do. When one builds a home, one usually does so in an effort to complete the structure with a roof and 4 walls, not just making a larger home unfinished. That kind of makes no sense.

Do I question the fact that there was an exclusive media deal when promises were made to provide SM with pics and info long before the Persistence ever left port, yup. Do I question why there was a beg for money all the while they knew they were pulling out ... yes I do.

Folks, questioning provides accountability. That is a real important thing in life. Do not ever accept anything hook, line and sinker. Many of you have questioned me in the past or you have questioned Tim. There is nothing wrong with that. If I point forth a premise or something that was done, I would expect people to question and want more than just accept what's stated. That's what makes the internet the internet. It is not for the faint of heart.

Are people perfect ... nope, not by a long shot. However, acting rude to those that have been a apart of this story and searched long before it was ever the en vogue thing to do and without a "Date Line" exclusive is hardly a way to gain favor. If you want attacked, maybe I should share some emails.

Questioning is not attacking. I would say as always be civil ... however, making people accountable to questioning is an important part of life. One better be able to hold up to questions and defend their point of view. Especially if one wants to be on the net.

Two...Kyle had a confidentiality agreement with the ship he was on...the Persitence...which is standard, and one with the Freebirds which Kermit agreed to when she joined. Is his career affected by what Kermit did? Absolutely!!! Did he try and cover up the finding of Natalee? No!! And just like Beth and Dave and Jug walked away from Aruba feeling as though "something went wrong" so did Kyle. And it was because of that feeling he joined the Freebirds and openly discussed with other members his concerns.

I think you need to go back and read your posts.

I have a beef when people are disrespectful.

This is the way I see things.

Kyle said things and Kermit said things.  We can't believe both.  It is a he said she said game.  It's about choices.  I chose to believe what Kermit put in front of us until we are proven wrong.

You and others are getting pissed at people because we have questions and want them answered.  This is what Scared Monkeys is all about.  It's about finding out the truth.

You're kidding, right?  People have trashed someone who posted here for weeks now, and MY post is unwarranted?  Please.

So you are a Freebird?I was asking what confidentiality agreement you were breaking?Are we not talking about Kyle's own concern's regarding the Persistence from his own mouth??

Thank you Red, you said it better than I.

Great points Red. And I am not calling anyone a hero here...we have all done what we thought was right...for our love of Natalee. But I remember the pics of you and Dave digging through the landfill and getting so sick in the process. I also remember people criticising what you did and the Monkeys going to bat for you. You, as well as Beth and Dave and Jug know what it is like trying to operate in that godforsaken island. Why so hard on the Persistence who busted their azzes to do the same thing we have been trying to do since Natalee went missing? That is all I ask.

 The Monkeys are made up of a diverse group of Americans who own a first amenment right to free speech and right or wrong in thier individual opinons they all have good intension. which is to find the truth in a world built on lies.
:smt109 :smt038 :smt041 :smt023

God Bless the Monkeys
 :smt059 :2notworthy:

Hindsight is always 20/20...and we all would have done things differently...if we knew what would happen in hindsight...jmho

LDSTLOU.Didn't know if you caught this???

Right.  So...will I be banned next?

I come here every single day...and yes, people are bashing Kyle.  You can call it what you want, but if you were the target of some of the posts that have been put out here you would not come back here either.  And you are losing posters over this.  If that's okay with you, then I guess it's okay with you.

LOL.  This is the most response I have ever had to a post on this forum.  I have opinions too, ya know.  And no....they have not been appreciated or respected on this forum.  So, I read.  And what has been going on here for the last few months has been very sad.

I, too, have been at this from the very beginning.  I am not a newcomer. 

There is a level of hostility that has creeped into this discussion that has not been helpful in any way.  Very sad.

Confidentiality agreement on the internet? Internet confidentiality agreement is by its definition and oxymoron. The mere presence and existence of the internet and world wide web. Seriously. Does anyone think, really think, believe that there is remotely the idea of confidentiality on the internet? I hope not.

Every news outlet has their stories linked to and referenced on the internet. This very site is a corporation and yet has its data taken and disseminated. As for slander, lol, he better get in line as I think he is way at the end of that line when it comes to covering Natalee. When he gets his own hate site, maybe he can discuss slander.

The point being ... if anyone thinks a private site is private ... I have a bridge to sell ya. There is not a private site that has ever existed that we did not know what was being said.