Scared Monkeys Discussion Forum

(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b258/texasmom55/Natalee/Carpes3truthandjusticefornatalee.jpg)

KEEPTHEFAITH

Thanks Nut - I was off playing games aka hookie  ::MonkeyHaHa::

Nut, my azz    ::MonkeyHaHa::

Nut, my azz    ::MonkeyHaHa::

Nut, my azz    ::MonkeyHaHa::

::MonkeyCool::

Thank you, guys.  I haven't done a thread change in a while. 

What we have hee aah is a failyah to communicate.   ::MonkeyHaHa::

See how easy it is to miss details?  Nut prepared the new thread.  I locked the old and opened the new which had her name on it.  Pretty slick. 

1/14/2009 Awe Mainta Front Page

http://awemainta.com/home/

(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b258/texasmom55/Misc%20News%204/01142008AweMaintaFP.jpg)

mother of miss aruba dianne croes owing to fayece posiblemente owing to cause of dengue

yesterday owing to enter the tristo news cu mother of we miss aruba, dianne croes owing to fayece posiblemente debi at dengue, but this will have to wordo confirma still dentro of 2 for 3 week. is deal of madam angelica croes of barely 53 year cu was live at paradera y because; profesion the was juffrouw of scol at colegio san hose at santa cruz. awemainta can owing to compronde cu the family had plannan big for trip together y so give dianne all the sosten necesario during his participacion in miss universe. the father, that is acolyte of cuerpo policial y cu can cierto also is sufriendo of kebrante of salud, will owing to descend cu vervroegd pensioen y together cu his casa will have to was in the salon caminda the certamen of miss universe will take lugar at las vegas. instancianan of salubridad publico owing to give of conoce cu still not can confirma cu sra. angelica owing to fayece debi at dengue, already cu testnan in exterior have to wordo realiza for confirma this, y the can tarda among two for three week. awemainta is convivi cu the dolor of dianne y his family y is send palabrana of forza y condolencia for all family croes cu the perdida of they being keri.

Wow, does this say that Miss Aruba's mother who was 53 died from the dengue?  How sad.  Small island to have this become an issue.  I know they have had dengue problems in the past.

Hi billb!  Good to see you!   ::MonkeyCool::

Hi billb!  Good to see you!   ::MonkeyCool::

I've seen PI here a few times, and some have said Hi to him....any response from PI to the Hi's?
I think he wants to say something....just waiting for the right time.......

No comments from PI yet...sniff...sniff.  I hope you're right.  Janet and I were afraid we skeered him with my hi's and her big hugs so we're going to be really quiet and only give hi's after he says hello, and hugs when he asks for them from now on...

You know TM, I KTF.....PI will post when he is ready.....he visits because he wants to let us know what is in the mix, but the timing may just not be right....The point is...PI (I hope I am not overstepping PI..It is not my intent) is viewing here because he knows SM is here for Justice for Natalee.....SM/Red/Klaas and way too many Monkeys to mention (they don't need mention-they need Justice for Natalee).
I (along with all esteemed colleagues/Monkeys) STAND WITH THE GIRL!!!
 

Thanks billb!  That makes me feel better.  Reminds me of this old guy that was here during the Persistence search...some really tense times...he told me to sing Christmas songs.  IIRC it was almost February, but that was o.k.; it made me feel better.  I've been thinking a lot about that, so much that I still have my Christmas tree up!  And I've been humming a Christmas song or two every once in a while just to keep my spirits up. 

Keeping the Faith, and Standing with the Girl!!!!  ::MonkeyDance::

KTF will like this...that is why I put her in... ::MonkeyCool::
It's all cool.....we are here for Natalee, Beth, Dave.....if it helps, I'll keep my Christmas tree up forever...,
Heck, next round of Christmas Carols are on me!!! .... ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyCool:: ::MonkeyDance::

 ::MonkeyHaHa::  You were great 2NJ!   ::MonkeyCool::

Blue Moon
Scared Monkey

 Offline

Posts: 1253



   Re: Natalee Case Discussion #792 1/9/09 -
« Reply #933 on: January 13, 2009, 08:33:37 PM » 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Article I found (a snippet of it follows):

Superior Offshore International Comments on Putative Class-Action Lawsuits

HOUSTON, March 5, 2008 /PRNewswire-FirstCall via COMTEX News Network/ -- Superior Offshore International, Inc. (Nasdaq: DEEP) today announced that several putative class-action lawsuits have been filed against the Company alleging violations of the federal securities laws. Superior Offshore believes that each of these lawsuits is without merit and the Company will vigorously defend itself.

this location: 
http://ir.superioroffshore.com/releasedetail.cfm?ReleaseID=297883


***This was March 5th, 2008.  What date were we (as in everyone, everywhere) requested to make donations to continue the search?
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4363.920

oceanexploration
Scared Monkey

 Offline

Posts: 224



   Re: Natalee Case Discussion #744 3/19 -
« Reply #468 on: March 20, 2008, 04:24:34 PM » 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Greetings,

First, thank you for your tireless efforts and dedication.  The Persistence leaving Aruba was strictly due to the fact that it's work there was complete.  Don't hear me wrong. We completed the side scan sonar search of the entire planned area.  We did an initial round of ROV dives with the Persistence which was on the order of 65 dives.  The final round of ROV dives was to inspect everything not inspected in the remaining area of the search grid.  The Persistence is very expensive and over-kill to keep on site when all we need is to dive on targets with an ROV.  It is best to return the Persistence to it's home and bring in an ROV boat or dive boat to complete the dives.  It's more efficient this way without the extra personnel and equipment out in the field. 
I just got off the phone with Tim Trahan a few minutes ago talking about returning to dive on the remaining targets.  There are plans to return, we just need to figure out the details of when and how.  The "how" question will help us figure out how much more funds we need to raise, if any.  I'm not involved in this.
The Arubans and Dutch never requested any information on our locations and don't have the target list(s).  They obviously know where the trap is because the Aruban dive division dove on the trap with us. From what I experienced, their attitude towards us was never anything other than professional, friendly, courteous, and positive.  By "they", I mean the Aruban dive division, coast guard, and port authority. I didn't come across any sand flies.   

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2721.msg367214#msg367214

Wingnut - don't forget also about Silvetti's posts at BFN (and those of his sister).  I have those posts of his somewhere.............let me find them.

They were made soliciting monies long after the Persistence made it back home to Louisiana.

TRUE, Jen - the request for funds started before the Persistence left the waters of Aruba, and continued well after her return to Louisiana.  BUT - why would you solicit donations if your company is days away from class action litigation - which is the death blow to your ability to fund such an endeavor?   With all these shenanigans taking place (securities violations, bankruptcy, class action lawsuits) the possibility that the Persistence or ANY boat being able to complete the search (LOL) was slim to none. 

whoops!  looks like I fubarred the bolding in that last post.

Thanks for your post. I think we all understood what points you were making. I had to laugh...I dont think I have ever seen FUBAR in past tense...I like it!  ::MonkeyHaHa::

Morning Johan!

Edward...Two Luis Mansurs - The son and the brother. No three, another around Joran's age!

Sorry, no notes, again, but there is a lot of info on the internet on the Mansur family relationships. Will tell you whom is related to whom and how.

I hope everyone had a chance to hear this one over the Christmas season, I think it's a great message any time!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1w1IwQZPOmM



     J4N    ::MonkeyCool::

Another interesting issue of note here.  This from Silvetti's post at BFN:

The important thing is to raise funds. It will require corporate support as well as private donations. Dave and Beth have been doing a great job getting the word out and while I was on the island, Dave put me in contact with the head of the Hotel Association who is working on raising a sizeable amount.
-----------

RIGHT!

Because AHATA was oh so helpful in finding Natalee right from the beginning?  Would that be those same folks from the Tourism Industry who were "moved" to the Justice Dept to "help solve this case"?

The same people who set out within the first week to besmirch Natalee and state she was a run away?

I wonder just how that meeting between Silvetti and AHATA went?  And I wonder when, exactly, it took place?

Remember Jorge Pesquera - wasn't he the former President of AHATA - admitting to Beth that there was a cover up that had taken place.

I wonder just how far AHATA was willing to go to further that cover up?  I wonder if they would have gone as far as offering a boat Owner some incentives to look the other way if and when anything was found?

Another interesting issue of note here.  This from Silvetti's post at BFN:

The important thing is to raise funds. It will require corporate support as well as private donations. Dave and Beth have been doing a great job getting the word out and while I was on the island, Dave put me in contact with the head of the Hotel Association who is working on raising a sizeable amount.
-----------

RIGHT!

Because AHATA was oh so helpful in finding Natalee right from the beginning?  Would that be those same folks from the Tourism Industry who were "moved" to the Justice Dept to "help solve this case"?

The same people who set out within the first week to besmirch Natalee and state she was a run away?

I wonder just how that meeting between Silvetti and AHATA went?  And I wonder when, exactly, it took place?

Remember Jorge Pesquera - wasn't he the former President of AHATA - admitting to Beth that there was a cover up that had taken place.

I wonder just how far AHATA was willing to go to further that cover up?  I wonder if they would have gone as far as offering a boat Owner some incentives to look the other way if and when anything was found?

So......how much did the head of the Hotel Association raise????  I wonder where those funds are now????  Class action lawsuits take $$$ to settle.........  Just sayin'.......

I contend that CAPS is deception personified.

Also ... logic dictates that in January, 2008 ... almost three years into the investigation ... somebody who is going to be revered as in the know should be aware of the role that Jug Twitty played in the life of Natalee Holloway.

It appears that Dave Holloway's friends (according to Robin) ... Reality and/or Mark Purcell (MIP6) ... may be directly involved or ... lurking somewhere behind the scenes pulling some strings.  Take note that CAPS addresses Julia Renfro ... a friend of Mark Purcell ... a friend that is thisclose.

IMO

Janet
______

JANUARY, 2008

CapsLockWizard
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #715 1/25 -
« Reply #384 on: January 27, 2008, 02:51:39 PM »

need to know 2 things

Did Natalee travel somewhere before he come to Aruba

and

and the parents tree   Natalee is the doughter of  -----  and --------- etc.

I know that probably Dave Holloway has notting to do with this Case but the Twitty

Wat is twitty to natalee?

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2539.msg332978;topicseen#msg332978


APRIL 1, 2008

CapsLockWizard
Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #2
« Reply #609 on: April 01, 2008, 03:15:49 AM »

my first question this morning around 9:30 was:

Why would beth lie about her being a virgin and who run with the story was fox news. where did they got the news from? I will answer Julia.

Why why would I lhype up something that was not true and now i need some one to run with it. that can colorabrorate and sustain my lie. My friend. who walk with me. both know it is not the true and that makes it like we say in Logic world,  NOT = NOT and that makes it a logic sense.

it can not be OR and can not be AND OR logic. do not compute.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2733.msg369749#msg369749

And wasn't Mark Purcell the former director of the Mariott?  Working with ROB SMITH?

Kermit,
I know this may not be a popular view,
But do we know that kyle was not just making drama to promote a sale of his pics/rov video to the highest network bidder? As far as I have read, there is no evidence that clearly points to Natalee's (or anyone else) remains was in the cage.  Yes, I know there is probable cause to suspect something is amiss wrt the persistence search, but without due process of potential evidence recovered from the cage, there is no way to ascertain the contents of the cage.
I think what kyle did was despicable, and what persistence did by asking for contributions in the name of Justice for Natalee was/is despicable,  but without evidence, that is all we have, nothing more. Is it, or is it not Natalee? We can't know, based on the info provided to date.
Pursuing the human trafficking angle may be all we have at the moment, and I hope JQK can push it forward. Another angle may be whatever Peter DV's comes up with in his next segment.....greta, where are you?......

Bumped....If not Kermit, maybe a Freebird can comment? Thanks.....

The biggest reason I have for not believing this - Kyle was informed before he joined us that a member of Natalee's family was with us.  I don't think Kyle would have done something like that in those circumstances.

I do truly believe that Kyle found himself between a rock and a hard place - and wanted to do the right thing.

I think it was May or June that Kyle went to Louisiana to see Silvetti - and wound up finding himself in between a bigger rock and a hard place after that meeting.  Kyle came back from Louisiana and began dodging questions and essentially making himself scarce.

2NJ - YES there was.

OK, thanks, Jen.   :smt039

Is there any way a smarter monkey than me could grab those pictures before they disappear?

You're welcome!

There was a mock up done of a cage, and it was submerged - IIRC, that was to get a look at the reading that size and style of cage would register with their equipment, so they could recognize the real mccoy if/when they found it.

I'm sure there is....I had trouble when I tried.

KLAAS??

Is there any way a smarter monkey than me could grab those pictures before they disappear?

I contend that CAPS is deception personified.

Also ... logic dictates that in January, 2008 ... almost three years into the investigation ... somebody who is going to be revered as in the know should be aware of the role that Jug Twitty played in the life of Natalee Holloway.

It appears that Dave Holloway's friends (according to Robin) ... Reality and/or Mark Purcell (MIP6) ... may be directly involved or ... lurking somewhere behind the scenes pulling some strings.  Take note that CAPS addresses Julia Renfro ... a friend of Mark Purcell ... a friend that is thisclose.

IMO

Janet
______

JANUARY, 2008

CapsLockWizard
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #715 1/25 -
« Reply #384 on: January 27, 2008, 02:51:39 PM »

need to know 2 things

Did Natalee travel somewhere before he come to Aruba

and

and the parents tree   Natalee is the doughter of  -----  and --------- etc.

I know that probably Dave Holloway has notting to do with this Case but the Twitty

Wat is twitty to natalee?

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2539.msg332978;topicseen#msg332978


APRIL 1, 2008

CapsLockWizard
Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #2
« Reply #609 on: April 01, 2008, 03:15:49 AM »

my first question this morning around 9:30 was:

Why would beth lie about her being a virgin and who run with the story was fox news. where did they got the news from? I will answer Julia.

Why why would I lhype up something that was not true and now i need some one to run with it. that can colorabrorate and sustain my lie. My friend. who walk with me. both know it is not the true and that makes it like we say in Logic world,  NOT = NOT and that makes it a logic sense.

it can not be OR and can not be AND OR logic. do not compute.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2733.msg369749#msg369749

Jen I could try later today but am hosting a demo for work right now with a global team so I can't take my attention from that long enough to do it, at least not until around 3pm today?

A great tool that is pretty inexpensive is Snag-It and you can get it at techsmith.com

2NJ please know my post last night wasn't directed at you, you haven't created stand-off's and dust-up's over CAPS but others have. 

I did find the picture of the young one last night.. But without a doubt Luis Mansur is the brother of Jossy Mansur and he must have a son >jr
 The judge in the court case was very clear on who he is and what he has done in his past..
He is not a nice guy and people fear him. That is the kind of person you are looking for..

And wasn't Mark Purcell the former director of the Mariott?  Working with ROB SMITH?

Here is just one example of what Dave's (via Robin Holloway) good pal Mark Purcell has to say about him.  Posted by Mark Purcell aka Doc Holladay aka MIP6 at RU:

Doc Holladay PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2006 7:43 am

Are the pages from Dave’s work of fiction soft when you wipe with them?
------------

Dave Holloway (hopefully unwittingly) to Mark Purcell, to Rob Smith

Dave Holloway to John Silvetti to Rob Smith

Capslockwizard...............Julia Renfro...............Mark Purcell............Rob Smith...........John Silvetti

Can someone say circle jerk?

Can someone say circle jerk?

LOL Blonde!

I just couldn't remember his exact position with the Mariott.

I see you are catching up on the thread - could you try to get those cage pictures off of Silvetti's site?

I think the test trap photos are interesting.  These are from Silvetti's site, not Kyle's blog, correct?

There are some in Blond's thread that are not on that site and some on that site we don't have copies of but would be hard to know which ones are missing.

Some of crew not seen before.  I wonder if that matters as maybe is a cook or something unrelated to any searches.

I just went back and revisited the pictures on Silvetti's Company's site from the search for Natalee.  There are 3 photos of a cage that appears to be on the deck of the Persistence while docked....similar in shape/size to the one in the ROV pics.  This one clean looking and in one of the shots, Kyle and Tim T. are looking at it. 

I was not able to capture them to bring here, but they are about midway in that large group of pics. 

Was there talk of a cage facsimile that I do not recall that they used for comparison during the search? 

http://www.silvettigroup.com/Arubapix/index.html

Thanks 2NJ!  Great job!!

And wasn't Mark Purcell the former director of the Mariott?  Working with ROB SMITH?

The test trap is no where near the actual size of the trap that was actually found.
jmho

Blonde.. That family photo does not include a picture of Luis in it that I can see.
I have a picture of Luis here I will find it and post it.

I would beg to differ - it is approx 2 feet smaller than the one found.  According to Kyle's estimation of measurements on the cage found.

I would beg to differ - it is approx 2 feet smaller than the one found.  According to Kyle's estimation of measurements on the cage found.

Here is more from Hodges about the missing trap, and what they used to make their mock up:

http://forensicthoughtprints.com/aruba/default.html

The Cage
The fisherman also noticed that a large fishing cage stored behind the first of the three Fisherman's Huts at the southern-most corner was missing. The cage had been there approximately a month since about Good Friday, March 25, 2005. The cage belonged to another fisherman who kept his boat next to these four huts. The boat was still there. But the cage was missing.

The fisherman described the cage as made of 3/8-inch iron (such as that used in concrete reinforcing—"rebar") with a frame size approximately 5 ½ feet by 4 feet by 17 inches. He described it as a large fishing cage with its frame wrapped in chicken wire with its familiar hexagonal openings but with an opening in one panel which allowed them to trap fish. He believed that, given its size and weight, it would take two men to manage the cage. Once aboard, it would lay low on the floor of the nearby fishing boat.

 

there was no cage missing
H.Mos told that in his last press conference.
the cage was at the FM's house

The trap was symmetrical in width and length at approximately 7.5 ft. It was approximately 2.25-2.5 ft high.  
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2668.msg360072#msg360072

Kyle said: "I think rocks in the cage are very unusual and indicate amateurs in opposed to fishermen disposed of the cage.


(http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/7130/fishcageinboatey4.jpg)

I am just looking at the divers around the trap found and they are small compared to the trap..
But what ever works for ya. ::MonkeyWink::

....and you believe Mos because.............................?

They always put stones in a cage-to let him sink > better

The fm told tim also this  : the cage belongs  to "another" fisherman
Mos told the same story and that they coudn't find that FM

Actually, I believe Mos said that they finally spoke with THE fisherman (over 3 years later) who by that time was saying he had taken his cage home - that it was never missing.

So - I guess it all depends on who a person believes.

The above image is a sample side scan sonar image to illustrate the type of imaging and resolution a high quality digital side scan sonar is capable of acquiring. A wreck (~150ft long 3-masted schooner) is laying upright on the seabed. The dark area to the left of the wreck is the acoustic shadow. A crab trap similar in size and character to the one we will be searching for thought to contain the remains is seen near the bow of the wreck, shown by the black arrow.

I used to crab off a dock on Barnegat Bay here in NJ.  The traps were approx. 12"X12"X12 with chains or ropes from the corners that held the sides up until the trap was lowered into the water.  The only thing we put in the trap was bait.   These small traps, as well as the large ones are heavier than water, and dont need stones to sink them, imo. 

On the other hand, fishing line is light, thus weights are used to get the bait/hook into deeper water. 

Hi monkeys!

About the location of the trap that was found.  Would someone post a link or other info where it is stated that it was located close to a frequently dove on shipwreck.  I've seen the picture here:

http://nholloway.blogspot.com/search?updated-max=2007-12-07T09%3A03%3A00-05%3A00&max-results=7

but from what it states under that and the date of the post, I don't believe this is the actual location of the trap that was found.  This is the quote from below that picture.

http://nholloway.blogspot.com/search?updated-max=2007-12-07T09%3A03%3A00-05%3A00&max-results=7


Any help with this is appreciated!

Back to work!   ::MonkeyCool::

The Antilla is located on the west coast not far from  Malmok Beach
And there was that cage also (in the same area )

(http://laughingeagle.com/cruise/2005_04_26/aruba_map_big.jpg)

From my understanding the stone can be used inside of a bait bag.
This bag "Denim"? is filled with fish to attrack crabs.. The rock holds the bait bag on the bottom.

Interesting, Edward.

Where do they do it that way?

I've gone crabbing in Maryland and in NJ and have never seen that before.

I've never seen that done in lobster traps in South Florida either.

I'd like to learn more.
.

The Antilla is located on the west coast not far from  Malmok Beach
And there was that cage also (in the same area )

yes but there was also a Gottenbos (speed)boat not far from the FM huts

Interesting, Edward.

Where do they do it that way?

I've gone crabbing in Maryland and in NJ and have never seen that before.

I've never seen that done in lobster traps in South Florida either.

I'd like to learn more.
.

Thanks klaas!

I've seen the mesh bags (not denim) -- I've never used them (or seen them) for trapping crab or lobster.

And for deep sea -- we just use that wierd fishing pole with a dozen hooks and catch us some 'bait' fish first before we go into deep water.  ::MonkeyWink::

Sorry if pic doesn't come out right, I am not so good at posting.

i think this is a crab cage

(http://www.neptunemarineproducts.com/pics/fishermen1.jpg)

Well I was suggesting "denim" could be used.. notice the question mark.. ::MonkeyWink::

I think a person needs to think like a POOR Colombian fisherman and NOT a spoiled Rich American sport fisherman.. 
A old pair of blue jeans and you cut off the leg and tie both ends.. makes a nice bag that crabs cant rip up to easy..

Well anyways that is just my thoughts on it..  ::MonkeyRoll::

johan,

here's a trick to finding out where (approximately) the cage was found.

Find OE's post about when he's standing on the beach watching the coast guard ship.

Take note of where he's standing, which direction he's looking, and how he states that coast guard ship was relative to the trap.

And then look at the video from Dateline, to see approximately how far out they were from shore.

(btw, it was nowhere near the Antilla or Malmok, and further out than the .40 miles the Antilla is  ::MonkeyWink::)

Well I was suggesting "denim" could be used.. notice the question mark.. ::MonkeyWink::

I think a person needs to think like a POOR Colombian fisherman and NOT a spoiled Rich American sport fisherman.. 
A old pair of blue jeans and you cut off the leg and tie both ends.. makes a nice bag that crabs cant rip up to easy..

Well anyways that is just my thoughts on it..  ::MonkeyRoll::

Interesting, Edward.

Where do they do it that way?

I've gone crabbing in Maryland and in NJ and have never seen that before.

I've never seen that done in lobster traps in South Florida either.

I'd like to learn more.
.

Edward - you are right, a poor fisherman might use anything including denim to make a bag.  Honestly, denim would probably be my last choice but if that's all ya got.

My husband ties the mesh bait bag to the center of the trap.  He claims that rocks would not prevent the bait bag from shifting to one side of the trap as the trap made its way to the ocean floor.  Crabs would then be attempting to get at the bait from outside the trap rather than entering it.

I think I got that right.  I do not think he is about to repeat it to me for the fourth time.

 ::MonkeyHaHa::

Janet

Would a poor fisherman be using a crab trap the size of the one discovered during Persistence endeavor?

Janet

Hey thanks Janet!

Not being a fisherman myself, that actually makes perfect sense to me!

Tell your hubby you got it!!!!!!  ::MonkeyTongue::

I believe this boat is in the location of where the trap was found. This pic was taken from shore Palm Beach right near Fishermans Huts 12/08.

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub5/boattrap.jpg)

Yes, Jen. The sizing of the photo distorts the perception on the distance from shore.

LOL - that's ok.  I'm terrible at judging distances from pictures like that anyway!  ::MonkeyHaHa::

If you do a reverse, and look from the Dateline footage back toward shore- it's easier, for me anyway, to determine the distance because of the landmarks on shore.

The bait was always fastened to the middle of the trap with a clip or tied somehow when we 've gone.  It seems the bags are used in bait pots within certain traps (a cylindrical 'trap within a trap'). 

 :2waver: :fish:

Why is everybody talking about crabs?  Isn't that a FISH trap?  It was my understanding that it was for fish only and not crabs.

And I do think someone with a trap that size would use something much thinner than denim for a bait bag.

Well, what is the approximate distance then?  I have no idea and don't want to just make up something if someone knows and can recall.

LOL - that's ok.  I'm terrible at judging distances from pictures like that anyway!  ::MonkeyHaHa::

If you do a reverse, and look from the Dateline footage back toward shore- it's easier, for me anyway, to determine the distance because of the landmarks on shore.

Why is everybody talking about crabs?  Isn't that a FISH trap?  It was my understanding that it was for fish only and not crabs.

And I do think someone with a trap that size would use something much thinner than denim for a bait bag.

My husband ties the mesh bait bag to the center of the trap.  He claims that rocks would not prevent the bait bag from shifting to one side of the trap as the trap made its way to the ocean floor.  Crabs would then be attempting to get at the bait from outside the trap rather than entering it.

I think I got that right.  I do not think he is about to repeat it to me for the fourth time.

 ::MonkeyHaHa::

Janet

I am just saying this is true from personal viewing. I took the pic. ::MonkeyWink::

I think the nature/type of trap got diminished since 2005 when it was a fish trap.

As the importance of the situation increased, the type/significance of the trap decreased to the point where the verbiage being used was confusing to a lot of folks.

Ah.  Gotcha.  So that was the Panter, and that is when it was at the cage site on Jan 11/12.

Thanks Janet!

You have saved me from the adventure of trying to meet a commercial fisherman  ::MonkeyHaHa::

For me, fishing is just the 'means' for spending a beautiful day on and in the sea. I do what I am told by the captain. Even drive the boat  ::MonkeyShocked::

I think I should start paying more attention. Apparently I'm doing things wrong  ::MonkeyConfused::

Why is everybody talking about crabs?  Isn't that a FISH trap?  It was my understanding that it was for fish only and not crabs.

And I do think someone with a trap that size would use something much thinner than denim for a bait bag.

lol Cuban crabs

(http://www.pbs.org/wnet/nature/files/2008/08/610_cuba_crabs.jpg)

Actually ... my husband just crab fishes for sport.  Small trap but ... sometimes there can be as many as 20 crabs when the trap is pulled up to the boat.  However ... there is a size and amount limit.  After throwing back all the undersize ... even by 1/4" ... we are lucky if a 1/2 dozen can be kept.  The process begins again.  After the cost of feeding about 100 crabs and ... only allowed to keep eight ... those eight can be considered very valuable.    A heft fine is the consequence if a fishery's officer were to board our board and ... any undersize crabs are to be found.  The crabs would be used as evidence.

There is the story about a boat that was boarded by a fishery's officer and ... there was a large container with six large but undersize crabs.  The fisherman claimed that they were pets and ... he brought them to the ocean each day for a swim and ... when he whistled they would return to the boat.  The officer was skeptical.  "OK.  Demonstrate" ... he instructed.  The fisherman threw the six crabs overboard and ... in a minute he whistled but ... not one crab returned.  The officer as where the crabs were and ... the fisherman said ... "What crabs?"

 ::MonkeyHaHa::

Janet

The only Crabs found around Aruba are way too small to be caught in any trap...unless it is the sticky like fly catcher trap hang up thingy...hehe...those buggars would stick to those.  ::MonkeyHaHa::

The only Crabs found around Aruba are way too small to be caught in any trap...unless it is the sticky like fly catcher trap hang up thingy...hehe...those buggars would stick to those.  ::MonkeyHaHa::

there was no cage missing
H.Mos told that in his last press conference.
the cage was at the FM's house

I beleive there's a post somewhere from Kyle to PI explaining the distortion from the camera lens.

Doesn't appear to be the Panter. Looked more like a cargo type boat.

.
And Julia has never been known to lie, lol. . . . . . .

Must be why Mos would take her word for something.  She may well be his source for that little tidbit.


.
 ::MonkeyHaHa::

Kyle said originally that they were searching where they were based on the confession of one of the suspects, who we now presume to be Joran.

Kyle said: "Here's a shocker: the confession from one of the former suspects I was refering to was NOT Joran.

Kyle said: "FYI, we're not stupid. We wouldn't do anything involving forensics even if we had to. Whatever we do will be under the blessing and cooperation of Aruban authorities and the proper people at every stage of this project.

Kyle said originally that they were searching where they were based on the confession of one of the suspects, who we now presume to be Joran.

Kyle said: "Here's a shocker: the confession from one of the former suspects I was refering to was NOT Joran.

Kyle said: "FYI, we're not stupid. We wouldn't do anything involving forensics even if we had to. Whatever we do will be under the blessing and cooperation of Aruban authorities and the proper people at every stage of this project.  

Makes you wonder who the other 'confessor' was, and Why that was given zero credence by Mos, in conjunction with Joran's confession to Patrick.

Not to mention Mos having been on board Persistence for (at least) Dec 29 dive.

At this point what do we hope to do about the trap ?
From what I can see, not much can be done now..

At this point what do we hope to do about the trap ?
From what I can see, not much can be done now..

I don't think this is anywhere near where the cage and remains were found.

picture - next to last row from bottom

DSC01316 - The above-water portion of the Antilla  - a great Pelican perch
http://www.pbase.com/icicle50/aruba

the shallow waters a few hundred yards off the coast  of Aruba, the wreckage of the German freighter Antilla can be found. ...
www.coldwarhistory.us/Exhibitions/History/Antilla_in_Aruba/body_antilla_ in_aruba.html  post #2   

arubalisaPlease do not try to swim the .40 mile to the Antilla  snorkel for "x" amount of time and then swim back to shore against the wind and current.

The last person who I heard who attempted this was rescued via dinghy by a member of the Jolly Pirates crew who luckily for the snorkeler, happened to be nearby.snipped

http://www.aruba.com/forum/f10/snorkeling-antilla-32925/
------------------

I do believe that the cage was found further than .4 of a mile offshore.  And in none of the video footage can there be seen this "above water" portion of the wreckage.

Lots can be done, actually.

US officials can subpoena Persistence records, testimony from those on board, and an accounting of personal and business financials.

At that point our State Dept would have to step in, and request cooperation from Aruba/The Hague regarding the findings from step one, and obtaining evidence/testimony from the Aruban side of things.

Satisfactory results, however, may be a different story.

thank you texasmom, I ate that tasty fly you left for me as my snack today.
ribbit

Cageman,
I've been very curious since your comment about being involved in forensics.  Have you seen the pictures that were reportedly taken by the ROV on board the Persistence?  If so, would you be willing to share your thoughts on the photos?  If you're not comfortable doing so for any reason I understand.  I would just like to know your opinion if you are willing to share it.

Thanks in advance.

tm

I really wish I could enlighten you but for me it is impossible to say something useful about those photographs.

Jen ... the question is ... "Is the American "powers that be" taking any action."  Are words of posts submitted to private or public sites considered evidence enough for authorities to act.  Kyle Kingman only has to distance himself from from the words in his posts.  The only person that he has defamed is John Silvetti and ... I believe that John Silvetti only wants to tippy toe away from the entire issue.

Janet.

I don't think that would be very easy for him to do, Janet.  He has shared not only some pretty powerful words, but also those images.

Both of which can be proven as being made/submitted by him.

I don't think our Dept of State will do anything to jeopardize the FOB base in Aruba especially now with the Ruskies entering into drilling agreements with Uncle Hugo.

That ups the ante a bit, IMO.

So what person had the inside knowledge of the cover-up from beginning to end that could possibly have recorded this?Why would they have put their life at risk unless they were possibly gonna be the fall guy? ::MonkeyConfused::

So what person had the inside knowledge of the cover-up from beginning to end that could possibly have recorded this?Why would they have put their life at risk unless they were possibly gonna be the fall guy? ::MonkeyConfused::

I still think it was someone "documenting" the cover-up to ensure the security guards would not be railroaded.

So it is believed the fellow who took the Aruba Bay video who had dark legs, actually knew the body was in the plastic he videoed, which could also be a large plastic taken from a trash container witnessed by a Colombian male. Who could also have dark legs.. Natalee's body was supposedly put into plastic and taken away in a white pick up..
 Taken to this culvert and placed there temporary..?
 later taken to another location and somehow eventually put into a crab/fish trap and dropped off the boat into 90 some feet of water..

Then there is various other witnesses and Internet bloggers and lots of thing we have discussed over the last 3.7 years now..
Take a look.. http://s66.photobucket.com/albums/h254/chicagoutfit/?start=all

Then there is Marcos near the end..

A large scale cover up by a government and or organized crime syndicate....


The one thing I have to say about all of this is,..
A famous psychic who lives in my neck of the woods was interviewed within 2 weeks of Natalee disappearing by me and I have it on tape..
She insisted at that time Natalee was in the ocean.. I believed she was in Venezuela.
She has never contacted the family ..Nor has she posted her thoughts on the Internet..
She has stayed silent.
I still have her on tape...  and The F.B.I. contacted her before I did..They wanted to know her opinion.. She also told them Natalee was in the ocean..
 Never said she was in a fish/crab trap and has never been contacted for approximate location of where Natalee may have been placed..
 I remember her words about the people involved.. Very dangerous people/ she sensed drug dealers and murders.. Also her words about how far out...Way Out !
 Also her last words.. Before this is over Many Nations will be involved.
It is all on tape... It is dated..
It appears she was correct.. and she always impressed me as honesty without any hesitation ..
Her name, Annette Martin.
I found it very interesting the fbi called her so quickly.. as she has advised them before.

There were other predictions .. Like this one who felt compelled to contact the family.
 http://www.marybrents.com/missing.htm

But Annette has strick rules on this.. I am just amazed at how accurate she was.
I did contact her and gave her a link to the Persistance web site.. I wonder what she thinks of all of this today..

She did say that the body would not be found..
Oh well.

I still think it was someone "documenting" the cover-up to ensure the security guards would not be railroaded.

I still think it was someone "documenting" the cover-up to ensure the security guards would not be railroaded.

Assuming, of course, the security guards did not agree to be railroaded.  For a price and catch and release deal, of course. 

I know, I know, I am totally cynical after all this time and being jerked around so much.


.

Assuming, of course, the security guards did not agree to be railroaded.  For a price and catch and release deal, of course. 

I know, I know, I am totally cynical after all this time and being jerked around so much.


.

Edward,

Do you feel as though Annette's words to you put Natalee further out into the ocean than where the trap was found??  That is what I though you meant in your first post about your conversation with Annette.  Let me know if I read that incorrectly.

So it is believed the fellow who took the Aruba Bay video who had dark legs, actually knew the body was in the plastic he videoed, which could also be a large plastic taken from a trash container witnessed by a Colombian male. Who could also have dark legs.. Natalee's body was supposedly put into plastic and taken away in a white pick up..
 Taken to this culvert and placed there temporary..?
 later taken to another location and somehow eventually put into a crab/fish trap and dropped off the boat into 90 some feet of water..

Then there is various other witnesses and Internet bloggers and lots of thing we have discussed over the last 3.7 years now..
Take a look.. http://s66.photobucket.com/albums/h254/chicagoutfit/?start=all

Then there is Marcos near the end..

A large scale cover up by a government and or organized crime syndicate....


The one thing I have to say about all of this is,..
A famous psychic who lives in my neck of the woods was interviewed within 2 weeks of Natalee disappearing by me and I have it on tape..
She insisted at that time Natalee was in the ocean.. I believed she was in Venezuela.
She has never contacted the family ..Nor has she posted her thoughts on the Internet..
She has stayed silent.
I still have her on tape...  and The F.B.I. contacted her before I did..They wanted to know her opinion.. She also told them Natalee was in the ocean..
 Never said she was in a fish/crab trap and has never been contacted for approximate location of where Natalee may have been placed..
 I remember her words about the people involved.. Very dangerous people/ she sensed drug dealers and murders.. Also her words about how far out...Way Out !
 Also her last words.. Before this is over Many Nations will be involved.
It is all on tape... It is dated..
It appears she was correct.. and she always impressed me as honesty without any hesitation ..
Her name, Annette Martin.
I found it very interesting the fbi called her so quickly.. as she has advised them before.

There were other predictions .. Like this one who felt compelled to contact the family.
 http://www.marybrents.com/missing.htm

But Annette has strick rules on this.. I am just amazed at how accurate she was.
I did contact her and gave her a link to the Persistance web site.. I wonder what she thinks of all of this today..

She did say that the body would not be found..
Oh well.

Since December 15th, an oil exploration crew from south Louisiana has used sonar equipment to scour Aruba's ocean floor looking for Natalee.Tuesday, Jan 01, 2008 - 11:19 PM Updated: 11:34 PMBy Jennifer Hale

January 7 the ROV dives down to the cage and evidence is gathered

January 17 CAPS puts his first post at SM
January 22, 2008, 01:32:49 AM - Caps posted his theory about what he thinks happened
January 26 Kyle puts a post on his blog about how the Aruba dive team are so trustworthy and have become good friends
January 27 The Aruba Coast Guard boarded the Persistence for a friendly visit at 0810 hrs this morning. For an hour we shared coffee, traded T-shirts, swapped stories, and showed them our progress.

Jan. 21 - 10 days before the Ranger Rover confession Kyle met downtown in public with Mos
(date tapes were released, Jan. 31 st is when Beth saw them with DeVries)

Jan 27, 2008 - The Aruba Coast Guard boarded the Persistence for a friendly visit at 0810 hrs this morning.  Sun 27-Jan 2355 hrs. "The possibility exists that they revisited the cage and did a site sweep, sampling more items including human remains around the 12th of Jan when I witnessed the Dutch Coast Guard on the site two days in a row.

January 31, 2008 - CAPS emails Dave Holloway

February 01, 2008, 09:52:13 PM CAPS posts:
Montana Apartments
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1952.1620

February 01, 2008, 10:26:49 PM
CAPS POSTS: The Montana Park Apartment is where all started..The Sex etc...
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1952.1620

February 9, 2008 - Jossy Mansur: A man claims he found a telephone behind the lighthouse in 2005; it was broken; he fixed it and dialed a person with the phone, so his story goes. The person apparently answered and said that that number belonged to Paulus Van der Sloot. The man is now giving testimony to the police. Late, but still important enough to be taken into consideration.

Caps emails Dave: I have spoken to John and he is in contact with MOS.

Feb 26CAPS posted: Reply #2727 on: February 26, 2008, 09:29:40 AM
The pond in question (MOKO) is right out near the Whitehouse Apartment.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1952.2720

CAPS posted: Reply #2729 on: February 26, 2008, 10:36:09 AM
Look for Noord and look for Moko.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1952.2720

Find Aruba. Look for Noord. Look for Montaña. Look for Moko
CAPS posted:  Reply #7 on: April 15, 2008, 09:24:02 AM »
they where located in Moko and where in the massages bussines
now lets look at the addess to the Dutch Apartmnts

Posted 2nd week of FEB: KYLE:  The FBI did not comment on the remains, but rather the fabric sample.
scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2705.700

Feb 17th through the 23  - Kyle Kingman based on his agreement with Tim Tehran and Louis Schafer flew to the east coast to meet with Executives of the networks.
                            for the purpose of selling the ROV/VIDEOS of the trap/cage.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2654.msg357222#msg357222

Kyle said: "The producer from 20/20 asked me if I saw the badges or credentials of the police officers. I had a total DEAR LORD moment, but recalled seeing the three divers several times with other police in uniform. Also the leader of the three I later saw with a badge.

Kyle said: "Dave was involved with the search until the 30th of Dec from an information-only level. I don't know if he knows anything about the blue denim-like fabric and have no reason to suspect that he does. I would say he knows as much as Beth, perhaps slightly more. It's time Beth knows what the truth is about that trap"

Kyle said: "Right before the Dateline special aired Tim and Louis asked if I could go to ABC to try to sell the footage in an attempt to recoup some of the money invested in the search efforts"
Everything remained in my possesion.

The ROV/Video images, never given to the family or FBI.

Feb. 22, 2008Kyle posted at BFN: This program was originally pitched by NBC to Tim Miller to be a docuentary about TES and turned into a documenary about the Search for Natalee Holloway's body.  It seems NBC shamelessly used Tim Miller to get on board the Persistence during the search

Feb. 22, 2008 = NBC Dateline special.  http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23261368/

Reply #494 on: February 26, 2008, 08:55:26 PM »
Bad news on the search.  Persistence has completed the underwater survey/grid.  Have identified 100+ objects and trying to narrow the list.  However, they are totally out of money.  If they can't come up with donations within a week or 10 days they will have to go home.
Dave Holloway has been talking to various officials to help chip in.

Without contributions Persistence is coming home.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2641.480

KYLE posts that when the crew from Persistence was searching the pond, AMIGO took pictures, they didn't call the press and the polis knew and Amigo knew prior to the pond search. Someone leaked.

Kyle: "This is what I'm trying to figure out now. I need to know the leak! I believe Caps is only one step away from DirtyHand."

Caps said: "my uncle is a Lawyer and He always talk abaout to have Roll duty."
Caps said his brother told him what Mos was upset about before Mos made any statements publically

FEB 28th -  the Persistence sudden departure and asking for money to continue the search.

February 29KYLE TO RED: "Let me make myself perfectly clear.  Your bitterness towards me is neither my fault nor my concern.  If what you said is true and Tim Miller said something making you feel entitled to be on board this boat at some point, he was mistaken.  It was not his decision, nor mine"

March 1 - RV Persistence announced it is leaving Aruba http://blogsfornatalee.com/forum/index.php?topic=8398.0
March 3 - John meets with Caps
March 3 - Kyle learns that the screenshots he sent to the FBI - the FBI sent to Dave and Dave's wife, Robin posted them on the internet.
March 3 - LegalLEx posts at BFN: "I think an immediate agenda many of us have taken on is... to continue... trying to find significant funding/donations... to finish the search... at least of those 150 (or so) targets that may yield Natalee and... maybe... evidence.
<snip>
Since John does not deal with the financing portion, (TES and Louis do),


April 7 KYle said: I'm uncertain as to whom Caps has been talking about. This witness wouldn't talk to police and would only talk to us at first through his lawyer.

I did push her on that.. We did not have a map, but she said Way Out !
I said like 5 miles out ? she said like 10 or 15 miles out.. ! Way Out!

Never mentioned Joran or Deepak and in all reality they do not impress me as people I would have fear of.

Most all the murders we have come across in the last few years the bodies have been found on land..The ocean is Not the locals method of disposal.. Rene could have been put in the ocean and so could have Pit Bull ..But they were not ..Nor was marlene on Bonair  and there have been quite a few others in the last 3.7 years..All but 1 or 2 have been found on land..

I did push her on that.. We did not have a map, but she said Way Out !
I said like 5 miles out ? she said like 10 or 15 miles out.. ! Way Out!

Never mentioned Joran or Deepak and in all reality they do not impress me as people I would have fear of.

Most all the murders we have come across in the last few years the bodies have been found on land..The ocean is Not the locals method of disposal.. Rene could have been put in the ocean and so could have Pit Bull ..But they were not ..Nor was marlene on Bonair  and there have been quite a few others in the last 3.7 years..All but 1 or 2 have been found on land..

Good Night klaasend, ospainter, texasmom and San.

I am done.

Janet
7:15 PM PT

Good Night klaasend, ospainter, texasmom and San.

I am done.

Janet
7:15 PM PT

Another interesting point.  Is that because it is more difficult than we realize to move a body off of the island? 

1.This is the way to make sure you do not have a body.. No body No crime.
2.THEY set up Rene's wife to take the Fall.
3.They torture PitBull.. Tied his hands to a pole and cut his legs off, then proceeded to pull his intestines out .. torture. 3 people go to prison for various terms on this crime, not one over 6 years. They offered no defense to there actions..

Was Natalee kept alive for a time ? Very possible, and any and all of those witnesses are now deceased..
Who would be willing to do that ?
Where was she kept ?

There was talk about basements.. I found a contractor that builds basements in Aruba
Apparently the rich and famous use them for wine storage.. A cool area.

The only one who comes to mind that has a personality to do this I have already mentioned, I bet he owns a basement.
 
Why has Joran taken the fall on this ? Why has Paulus ?
Joran probably works for the syndicate and Paulus is probably linked to the syndicate through bribe and or payoff for past things that have now turned into a threat if he says anything.

I believe Paulus and/or Joran must have mob ties proven by the fact that Tacopino was defending Joran.  There is no other explanation.

marlene = Marlies

I'm sorry. Something went wrong in my previous reaction. It wasn't Edward saying "marlene = Marlies" but it was me.

Yep, Goodmorning Jan Willem!

Who has actually seen video #38?

1.This is the way to make sure you do not have a body.. No body No crime.
2.THEY set up Rene's wife to take the Fall.
3.They torture PitBull.. Tied his hands to a pole and cut his legs off, then proceeded to pull his intestines out .. torture. 3 people go to prison for various terms on this crime, not one over 6 years. They offered no defense to there actions..

Was Natalee kept alive for a time ? Very possible, and any and all of those witnesses are now deceased..
Who would be willing to do that ?
Where was she kept ?

There was talk about basements.. I found a contractor that builds basements in Aruba
Apparently the rich and famous use them for wine storage.. A cool area.

The only one who comes to mind that has a personality to do this I have already mentioned, I bet he owns a basement.
 
Why has Joran taken the fall on this ? Why has Paulus ?
Joran probably works for the syndicate and Paulus is probably linked to the syndicate through bribe and or payoff for past things that have now turned into a threat if he says anything.

I can't get mind off of CapsLockWizzard.
Since I am not in the know or connected, I have no idea who he is.
I am not sure it even matters who he is.
It does concern me who would employ him to spread misinformation,
keep people searching to worthless ends and invent a witness.
Who sent Caps here to create the diversion?

I can't get mind off of CapsLockWizzard.
Since I am not in the know or connected, I have no idea who he is.
I am not sure it even matters who he is.
It does concern me who would employ him to spread misinformation,
keep people searching to worthless ends and invent a witness.
Who sent Caps here to create the diversion?

Another interesting issue of note here.  This from Silvetti's post at BFN:

The important thing is to raise funds. It will require corporate support as well as private donations. Dave and Beth have been doing a great job getting the word out and while I was on the island, Dave put me in contact with the head of the Hotel Association who is working on raising a sizeable amount.
-----------

RIGHT!

Because AHATA was oh so helpful in finding Natalee right from the beginning?  Would that be those same folks from the Tourism Industry who were "moved" to the Justice Dept to "help solve this case"?

The same people who set out within the first week to besmirch Natalee and state she was a run away?

I wonder just how that meeting between Silvetti and AHATA went?  And I wonder when, exactly, it took place?

Remember Jorge Pesquera - wasn't he the former President of AHATA - admitting to Beth that there was a cover up that had taken place.

I wonder just how far AHATA was willing to go to further that cover up?  I wonder if they would have gone as far as offering a boat Owner some incentives to look the other way if and when anything was found?

I can't get mind off of CapsLockWizzard.
Since I am not in the know or connected, I have no idea who he is.
I am not sure it even matters who he is.
It does concern me who would employ him to spread misinformation,
keep people searching to worthless ends and invent a witness.
Who sent Caps here to create the diversion?

Well anyways I would like to support Kermits efforts to put pressure on..But onto whom ?
As I see it we have some extremely rich evil people who have conspired together. Anyone who seems to be of any threat has been eliminated. John S. appears to have made all his money for his efforts in the stock sales of his companies shares..
This is a big business move..  A way of funding somebodies efforts for a job well done.
He found the fish trap and you see today that Hugo is after the very same ocean floor that John has mapped out.. With that mapped out floor oil platforms can be pre built for any area determined to have a drill able spot.
 It is probably WHY we now see Hugo chum up with American oil and Dutch oil companies..
The politics are very think here..
Natalee is a victim of far more then just 3 boys after a little drug and rape session in my humble opinion.

What does Paulus know that protects him and his Sporter of a boy,Joran,to all ends of the earth???One would think Paulus has to have written,picture,and or video documentation against some Major players or why would he and his sporter be given a FREE pass to kill and murder???

Joran van der Sloot's age implies he should never have been allowed on the premises of the Excelsior Casino.  He should never have been allowed on the premises of Carlos and Charlies'.  He should never have been allowed on the premises of the Radisson.  He should never have been allowed on the premises of the Wyndham.  Yet he was not only given access to these establishments ... given access to unsuspecting young ladies ... he was allowed to drink alcohol and gamble.

Was Joran and Paulus participants in the Aruban underground economy which encompasses drugs, alcohol, sex trade, gambling, money laundering, pornograph ... ?

Janet

++++++


'Rita Cosby Live & Direct' for April 3
updated 8:24 a.m. PT, Tues., April. 4, 2006

JOHN Q. KELLY, HOLLOWAY FAMILY ATTORNEY: Well, if you look at the surveillance video footage, it appears that he’s the one sitting directly next to her and tries to engage her in conversation a couple of times.  And it’s sort of ironic that it’s his father who brought his underage son to a casino and left him there after he left, with access to his line of credit, to put this unfortunate chain of events in process.

You know, if Joran had never been there, not been allowed in there, because he’s underage and wasn’t accompanied by his father, the whole rest of the night wouldn’t have happened.

COSBY: You know, and, John, also, why would that be a significant—why is that in conflict to something else we’ve heard maybe from Paulus before?

KELLY: Well, he’s just claiming that, you know, he’s kept an eye on his son, you know, he’s kept him on a short leash, and, you know, his son is very well-behaved. And it turns out that he’s, you know, got him at casinos. If you’re under 18, you’re not legally even allowed in casinos, so his son was breaking the law with him enabling it.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12150698/


Jossy Mansur
DANA PRETZER
July 23, 2007

Dana: One thing that makes my listeners scratch their heads so to speak and wonder, myself included and we'll talk about it again, is the fact of the underage drinking and gambling that had been going on admittedly by young van der Sloot.  Was there ever any discussion or has there ever been any discussion at least of filing some charges as far as that goes?

Jossy:  No, there hasn't been any of that. The authorities have just (inaudible) it aside, they haven't paid any attention to it then and they're not paying any attention to it now and over the past 26 months.    I haven't seen anything in the direction of trying to make some kind of statement that this is not (inaudiable) at least make some sort of a statement that this is not (inaubible) because it is a known fact that as an underage he wasn't supposed to be in the casino, much less in the company of his father. He was there, there are video tapes to prove that and still the authorities haven't done anything with regard to that specific case.

http://scaredmonkeysradio.com/2007/07/23/the-dana-pretzer-show-monday-july-23rd-2007-special-guests-larry-sinclair-jossy-mansur-ladonna-meredith-attorney-jay-paul-deratany/


Joran van der Sloot
Suspect Statement
June 9, 2005

After that we drove straight to Carlos & Charlies. Deepak was the driver but I cannot remember now who was sitting beside him. I do not remember now if it was Satish or me. I estimate that we arrived at Carlos & Charlies between 00.15 and 00.30 hours. Deepak parked his car on the parking lot behind Carlos & Charlies and after that we walked into the building of Carlos & Charlies. I don't have to pay because I have a VIP pass. With my VIP pass Deepak and Satish were also allowed in.

To your question as to who gave me the VIP pass to Carlos & Charlies, I answer you that I got it through the office of Carlos & Charlies. I do not remember with the help of who I got the VIP pass. I got to Carlos & Charlies about one to three times a week.


Beth Holloway
LOVING NATALEE

Page 39:  Following our brief conversation, we all walk immediately to the fron desk to ask about someone named Joran who is staying in the hotel and plays in the casino here.  The Holiday Inn night manager, Brenda, knows him by name.  "Oh! yes ... yes ... Joran.  He gambles in the Excelsior Casino here.  He likes to prey on young female tourists.  Especially the blonds.   He is tall.  Good-looking boy.  Like a Dutch marine."   My mouth drops wide open.  "Where is he from?" I ask her.  She replies.  "He lives in Aruba."  I stutter.  "He's ... he's not a tourist just here for the summer?"  "Non, non," she says.

It takes a few moments to absorb this information.  The supposed tourist who befriended some of Natalee's classmates and who told them he was staying at their hotel lied tothem.  He isn't a tourist.  He isn't staying here.


Deepak Kalpoe
Suspect Statement
June 13, 2005

Andre asked me to come inside. I did go inside. I did not play, but did look at the cards of Joran and Guido.

At some given moment in time a tourist who was sitting at Joran's table got angry. The tourist thought that we were looking at the cards of other players and signaling/deciding for Joran when he should play or not. It lead to a disagreement between Joran and the tourist. The manager of the Radisson Casino came over and everything calmed down. I drank about four "whisky coke" gedronken in the Radisson Casino.  I now that Joran drank more because the waiters were constantly bringing him drinks.   I am not sure .what he was drinking. His drinks were of a yellow colour. I think it was “whisky soda" or 'Whisky water".


Aruba Suspects Accused of Taking Sex Photos of Another Girl
Thursday, September 01, 2005

The Kalpoe brothers were released July 4 and rearrested last week with a friend of the three young men, Freddy Alexander Zedan-Arambatzis (search), 21.
 
Zedan-Arambatzis, who is not suspected of involvement in the Holloway case, is accused of taking photos of a minor female in "tempting poses" and of showing the photos to other people, said his lawyer, Diana Emerencia. He is also suspected of having unspecified "physical contact" with the girl, she said.

The Kalpoe brothers and van der Sloot are also suspected of involvement in the incident, which allegedly occurred before Holloway disappeared, Emerencia said.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,168233,00.html


'Scarborough Country' for August 26
updated 12:49 p.m. PT, Mon., Aug. 29, 2005

JOSSY MANSUR, EDITOR, “DIARIO”:  It definitely smells that way.  You know, if you take the prosecution‘s statement at its face, we are talking on a whole new level, the charges here.  We are talking about drugs.  We are talking about rape and we are talking about rape of many different people.  There are four guys now in custody, four best friends.  What does that tell you?
 
MANSUR:  Well, what it tells me is that, really, these four guys are friends.  They belong to the same group, these party boys that go out and prey on young, unsuspected girls or other kinds of girls also that are out to have a good time, not suspecting what they‘re in for with these predators around.

And they are—they not only appear in photographs together, but I understand that Freddy lives very near to the Joran house.  So, there is a bond between them.  There is a group that they call themselves the pimps, in which all of these participate.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9119491/


'The Abrams Report' for August 4
updated 8:37 a.m. PT, Fri., Aug. 5, 2005

TWITTY:  You know it's a pretty long scenario; we have a lot of details.  You know the main thing to sum it up is you know Joran, how he entered this establishment.  I believe that you know if you enter on the right side, you have to have a valid I.D.  If you enter Carlos N' Charlie's on the left side, you must have some type of—I don't know if it's a VIP pass or what to enter, but Joran enters the establishment on the left side, approaches these groups of tourists. 

You know it's interesting how he is able to try to work his way in and connect and establish himself in that—in Carlos N' Charlie's, was walking her around and these other tourists and was able to point out Satish and Deepak Kalpoe.  They were sitting ironically in the same corner, the same stools that they were seated at in the picture that's been all over international media, so that must be their spot that they wait while Joran is working.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8838598
 

Deepak Kalpoe
Suspect Statement
June 10, 2005

To your question as to what role Joran plays in our circle of friends, I can state the following. He has no real role. We are all the same.

To your question as to where we take the girls we pick up, I can state the following. Sometimes the girls stay at "Carlos & Charlies" or sometimes we take them to their hotel.

To your question was to what exactly happens when we have picked up the girls, I can state the following. Just kissing and dancing.

To your question whether sexual intercourse has happened, I can state the following. Yes, it has happened.

To your question whether it ever happened that all of us, so in one room, had sexual intercourse, I can state the following. It has happened.

I believe Paulus and/or Joran must have mob ties proven by the fact that Tacopino was defending Joran.  There is no other explanation.

Well anyways I would like to support Kermits efforts to put pressure on..But onto whom ?
As I see it we have some extremely rich evil people who have conspired together. Anyone who seems to be of any threat has been eliminated. John S. appears to have made all his money for his efforts in the stock sales of his companies shares..  This is a big business move..  A way of funding somebodies efforts for a job well done.
He found the fish trap and you see today that Hugo is after the very same ocean floor that John has mapped out.. With that mapped out floor oil platforms can be pre built for any area determined to have a drill able spot.
 It is probably WHY we now see Hugo chum up with American oil and Dutch oil companies..
The politics are very think here..
Natalee is a victim of far more then just 3 boys after a little drug and rape session in my humble opinion.

Well anyways I would like to support Kermits efforts to put pressure on..But onto whom ?
As I see it we have some extremely rich evil people who have conspired together. Anyone who seems to be of any threat has been eliminated. John S. appears to have made all his money for his efforts in the stock sales of his companies shares..  
This is a big business move..  A way of funding somebodies efforts for a job well done.
He found the fish trap and you see today that Hugo is after the very same ocean floor that John has mapped out.. With that mapped out floor oil platforms can be pre built for any area determined to have a drill able spot.
 It is probably WHY we now see Hugo chum up with American oil and Dutch oil companies..
The politics are very think here..
Natalee is a victim of far more then just 3 boys after a little drug and rape session in my humble opinion.

Iris and I are not on the same page often but ... on this I tend to agree.

Janet

++++++++

Was it Silvetti or Schaeffer that got the BIG payday from stocks?I thought it was Schaeffer?Let me know if they both got paid..TIA

Luis Shaefer sold stocks of Superior Offshore, and then resigned from its Board.

I believe that was November 2007?  That's when HE brought Silvetti/Persistence in at the last minute.

Luis Shaefer and Tim Trahan together ran Underwater Expeditions, which appears to still be operational under Tim Trahan.

Silvetti's companies skills and abilities include the oil industry........up to and including underwater construction (including pipelines)

Edward,

It was Louis Schaefer, whose Superior Offshore International, Inc. (DEEP) went under and stock shares were sold off by chief executives.....not John S., as you posted.     

Doesn't Taco own some businesses in Italy?

Thank You for the correction, I got my names mixed up.. That is what happens if I shoot from the hip in this case without my notes.. The gun always goes off in my holster and I shoots myself in the Foots.. ::MonkeyWink::

Is there any need to research the backgrounds of those involved in the securities litigation Jen?Did The Freebirds already do that to see what role they played in potentially securing something of this nature for Schaeffer?TIA

I read the other day that his parents are Italian immigrants.  Taco has a law office in Italy and had an interest in buying a soccer team, iirc....don't remember anything else other than he's fluent in Italian, but I'd have to reread.

I don't think there's a need for that, but that's just my opinion.  Shaefer is who appears to have pocketed the $$, and that's why everyone is suing him now.

We followed the money after that, including his purchase and immediate bankruptcy of that fishing business, and that bed and breakfast.

But that Underwater Expeditions is still soluble is what I find most interesting.

There were a decent amount of physical assets with that fishing company (boats) where did they go?  What are they doing now?

What happened to the physical assets of Superior Offshore (boats)?

What about the lease back agreements on those boats that were sold?

Supposedly, it was SHAEFER whose purpose in the Persistence's endeavor was oil related.

So what did Silvetti get out of that - or what will he be getting?

Doesn't Taco own some businesses in Italy?

Now the question is how to tie Schaeffer,and or Silvetti to the island in order to do business in the future!How can we do that? ::MonkeyConfused:: I know we've been trying.

Sorry Bastibro...I didn't see you there...Good Morning!

Have a great day!

Janet - I couldn't agree with you more!

Tacopina has represented many in the Gambino family.........to which Posner is/was tied.

Posner IS the connection between Joey T and Paulus.

Also don't foget - Guido Wever could ONLY be interviewed by ALE in Posner's office at the casino.

Jen ... justice for Natalee Holloway implies that accountability is sooo far reaching.  This is why I do not believe that justice is not going to come out of an Aruban or Dutch courtroom.

The exposure of the deception encompassing the Persisistence undertaking would allow a measure of closure for Natalee's family.  I certainly hope that the FBI are working behind the scenes on behalf of Natalee Holloway's family to bring this exposure about.  After all ... it was an American citizen who was denied ... through a corrupt investigation ...  what she was entitled to under Dutch law ... justice. 

Janet

Now the question is how to tie Schaeffer,and or Silvetti to the island in order to do business in the future!How can we do that? ::MonkeyConfused:: I know we've been trying.

Also keep in mind, Shaefer (thru Superior) has a good working history with BP.

Superior Offshore International Senior Executives Cancel 10b5-1 Trading Plans

HOUSTON (AP) -- Oilfield service provider Superior Offshore International Inc. said Friday two senior executives canceled prearranged trading plans that gave them greater freedom to buy or sell the company's shares.




President and Chief Executive Officer James J. Mermis and Chief Financial and Administrative Officer Roger D. Burks each ended their 10b5-1 trading plans, which had been set up partly to pay income tax on granted stock, the company said.

A prearranged 10b5-1 trading plan lets company insiders set up a program in advance for stock transactions and proceed with them even if he or she comes into possession of material non-public information.

(The Company disclosed that its $55 million Term Loan Facility with Fortis Bank has been classified as a current obligation per FASB reporting requirements because the Company did not meet certain requirements of its term loan debt covenants.)

Trinidad project was running full steam ahead during the third quarter. Three of our vessels, the Gulmar Condor, Seamec III, and the Crossmar 14 are still currently working there for BP.

------------

British Petroleum
Robert (Bob) Malone is BP's chief representative in the United States. He is based in Houston, Texas........... where BP business units are involved in oil and natural gas exploration and production, refining, chemicals, supply and trading, pipeline operations

-------------

Byron Grote Job title: Chief Financial Officer of BP

Byron is a non-executive director of Unilever NA and Unilever

Unilever constantly keeps its corporate governance arrangements under review. NV and PLC are subject to different corporate governance requirements and best practice codes, the most relevant being those in the Netherlands.
-----------------

South America
Exploration and production work is a core aspect of BP’s presence in Colombia and Venezuela.
--------------

John S. distributes APS Sonavision sonars in the Gulf ,APS LLC focuses specifically on the navigation and sonar needs of the oil and gas industry.

APS is the navigation, positioning and sonar services arm within the JD Silvetti Group of Companies. APS is responsible for most call out projects that do not require certifications, as well as non-certification specialized projects.

Jen ... justice for Natalee Holloway implies that accountability is sooo far reaching.  This is why I do not believe that justice is not going to come out of an Aruban or Dutch courtroom.

The exposure of the deception encompassing the Persisistence undertaking would allow a measure of closure for Natalee's family.  I certainly hope that the FBI are working behind the scenes on behalf of Natalee Holloway's family to bring this exposure about.  After all ... it was an American citizen who was denied ... through a corrupt investigation ...  what she was entitled to under Dutch law ... justice. 

Janet

I agree Janet.This goes from Aruba straight to the Hague.The Netherlands don't want anything to do with this. ::MonkeyCool::

That was actually Luis Shaefer who did that.

I seriously would like to know if what some at cng are stating is true - did Jug know that the main goal of the Persistence was oil related?
And then how that relates to what Chavez and the Russians are now doing, if at all?

And then also about the natural gas to Aruba from Venezuela that they agreed to last June?

Remember - the one that would require a pipeline between the two countries?

Because you're right Edward - any/all of this could benefit from the mapping of the ocean floor the Persistence did.

I agree Janet - Art Wood wasn't kidding when he said it was a house of cards.  Well this house reaches higher than any I've ever seen.  To bring it down would take a lot more than I think any of us could have ever imagined.

But justice and peace of mind are two different things, IMO.

While one may not be attainable - the other still has a chance.[/color]

Hi Keepthefaith

O/T

How are the floods in the Seattle area now?  Nothing on the news.

The floods in our area ... mostly in the Eastern Valley ... are receding.  Daughter and four grandkids were stranded in the house on high ground on their 40 acres property for a couple of days.  The tributary of the Fraser River that runs through the property overflowed.  Son-in-law ... a pilot ... was forced to bunker down at the home of hubby's sister who resides near the airport.

I am so thankful to see the snow disappearing but ... all the water.

 ::MonkeyNoNo::

Janet

Please forgive me if this has been posted before, but here is the step by step progression of who contacted whom for this endeavor.

http://www.iberianet.com/articles/2007/11/29/news/news/news00.txt

From here to Aruba

BY JEFF MOORE, THE DAILY IBERIAN
Thursday, November 29, 2007 12:37 PM CST

An expedition to search the waters off Aruba for the remains of missing Alabama teenager Natalee Holloway leaves today from the Port of Iberia.

The research vessel Persistence, owned by the Lafayette-based Silvetti Group, will make the 10-day journey to the island. A 20- to 25-man crew will spend at least two weeks surveying the sea floor for Holloway, who has been missing since May 30, 2005.

Holloway, 18, was last seen leaving a bar with three men hours before she was scheduled to fly home with high school classmates celebrating their graduation.

Last week, police re-arrested the three men, prompting her father to re-launch the search in deep waters.

John Silvetti said his company became involved in the search after he was contacted by Louis Schaefer, chairman of Superior Offshore International. Schaefer had been approached by Texas Equusearch, a non-profit organization that has been searching for Holloway for more than two years.

Schaefer asked Silvetti if he could provide the survey personnel and the geophysical equipment required for the search. After spending a weekend with Schaefer and Pam and Dave Holloway, Silvetti agreed.

“It ripped my heart out to hear them say that right now all they’re looking for is to have a funeral in Alabama,” Silvetti said. “What do you say to someone like that?”

Silvetti agreed to provide his equipment and primary survey vessel at well below cost, with Schaefer covering all out-of-pocket expenses. Silvetti said his staff volunteered its services for the project as well.

“They said ‘You don’t even have to pay me. I just want to help,’” Silvetti said. “That just tells me we’ve got the right people on board.”

Marc Broussard, project manager for the Silvetti Group, said the company normally performs surveys looking for oil rigs and downed helicopters. Now, it will be using its high-resolution SONAR equipment to look for a body.

To upgrade its systems for the terrain in Aruba, Broussard said the Silvetti Group looked to its vendors, two of which are based in New Iberia.

Seatronics, located at the Port of Iberia, agreed to donate some of its high-tech electronic equipment to scan the ocean floor.

“I told (Silvetti) any opportunity that we had to go in on such a good cause, we would go in on it,” said Erik McGuire, vice president of Seatronics Inc.

“We’re more than happy to give the best effort possible to recover this girl for her family.”

Pro Log Inc. also stepped forth to provide a command center building where all of the surveying equipment will be stored. Like many people around the country, Pro Log Human Resources Director Heidi Parker said she has been following Holloway’s disappearance closely.

“We’re a family-owned business, so family is very important to us,” Parker said. “Anything we can do to help this family out is something that we’re going to do.”

After more than two years of searching, Texas Equusearch office manager Cheryl Lawless said she is hoping the organization’s fifth trip to Aruba will be its last. She said the venture would not be possible without the help of Schaefer, Silvetti and the other local companies.

“Nothing is being done to gain name recognition. This is to help these people,” Silvetti said. “Most of us have watched this on television, and I can only imagine the horror any parent would go through searching for their child in a foreign country.”

KTF,  I know the discussion has moved from Taco, but I was just lost in Google and found an article describing his most recent client.    ::MonkeyRoll::   Note:  Las Vegas comes into play, here:

http://www.examiner.com/a-1792578~Fla__judge_accused_of_hiding_assets_for_stripper.html

KTF,  I know the discussion has moved from Taco, but I was just lost in Google and found an article describing his most recent client.    ::MonkeyRoll::   Note:  Las Vegas comes into play, here:

http://www.examiner.com/a-1792578~Fla__judge_accused_of_hiding_assets_for_stripper.html

Breaking News >> Report: Plane Crashes in Hudson River Off Manhattan

http://www.foxnews.com/



US Airways flight 1549 goes down in Hudson River

http://www.cnn.com/

I keep seeing and hearing Aruba come up in news reports and advertisements.  Has anyone been there recently?  Is tourism up?

There is also a new thread -
"Travel Show Boycott - Jan 31 - Feb 1 - St. Louis Travel Show - St. Louis, MO"

Any other boycotts?

It seems odd after all these years that Aruba still has the stigma of boycott attached to their island.

Bonaire survived their recent crime and I do not remember any calls for a boycott.  I don't recall any calls for a boycott of any other place.  Is Aruba still leading the boycott pack?

Anyone know of other places being boycotted?  Negative publicity?

jen ... EVERYBODY (148) made it off safely and ... relatively uninjured.

It really is a miracle.

The plane has now sunked.  However ... the landing was perfect and ... private as well as ferries were on the scene immediately.  The ferries all had life jacket.

Apparently .... almost immediately after takeoff ... the plane hit a large flock of birds and ... some were sucked up the engines causing complete entine fairlaure.

I was crying while one of the passengers was being interviewed.