Scared Monkeys Discussion Forum

 ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyCool:: ::MonkeyDance::

Thanks Nut!   ::MonkeyCool::

Ta Da! ::MonkeyDance::

Ah, a new cage!

Each one hold the potential to be the Discussion that brings Natalee home.

You are welcomeeeeee....now nighty night all!

Goodnight Nut!   ::MonkeyCool::

Let's not forget about that last post on the previous thread regarding kyle's comment LifeSong! ::MonkeyCool:: Off to the gym to exercise and defuse!

Goodnight Nut..

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote from: jen3560 on February 27, 2009, 11:10:48 AM
Well, well.

This is just done with Google - maybe ceasu could give us a better translation.

BUT - if I am reading this correctly, it DOES look like the port is going to AMERICAN COMPANIES


portMet the president of employers association ATIA, Juan David Irausquin is
discussed the plans for the new port, Nos Aruba 2025
(future) and the economic outlook for Aruba in the light of
credit crisis.

Irausquin, in March the gavel that he and Vice President
is, last week the MEP Group of the States a presentation
on the economic impact of moving the port. He
outlined the ignorance of the Group on the costs to move
entails Thursday to know what the yield will be. There is
never an economic impact study performed. The effect of the movement
for infrastructure, employment etc were unknown quantities
for the Co-Parliamentarians. Typical was the statement of one of them:
why are you (Irausquin) against the movement if your car only
but benefit from it. Similarly, the observation of another Statenlid that this
no debate in the States because you do not publicly your brother when you fall
home quarrel with him have. The Statenleden indicated not to be aware of
discussions between the government and the Spanish group of investors.

Parliament is not adequately informed. The presentation to the MEP
was the result of presentations to parliamentarians, trade unions, political
parties and officials.
About the impact of the global financial crisis, the
President employers are not too much worry. The group of Americans
Aruba is aimed at is generally feasible enough. Expenditure to
site will probably decline in tourist accommodation.

http://www.nrc.nl/multimedia/archive/00205/week_3_1__205580a.pdf



BUMP

It seems those that have been banned at SM but are posting at Goldmonkey still want to believe I have posted members email addresses without their permission.

Evidentally they are referring to a quote of a Capslockwizard front page post where Capslock includes his email address in his post.  See post #71 below.

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2007/12/22/now-aruban-prosecutor-says-holloway-case-in-new-phase-new-phase-of-not-investigating/

Sorry but I can not be held responsible for what posters choose to post on their own.  I did not post his email address, Capslockwizard posted it himself.

My speculation that the December 30th meeting with the Aruban's on board the Persistence was when an incentive was given to John Silvetti and Tim Trahan to negate the contents of the trap could be wrong according to my DIL.

DIL contents that according to Kyle Kingman's own words ... John Silvetti was negating the contents of the trap from the moment that the December 29th ROV images were revealed ... prior to the December 30th meeting with the Arubans.

DIL questions why John Silvetti is not as excited as Kyle Kingman and Tim Miller.  After all ... Kyle Kingman's professional expertise as an ROV analyst ....

Hey ... maybe the incentive to disregard Natalee Holloway's remains if found was on the table from the getgo.

Maybe it was the dynamics encompassing the discovery of the trap as well as Kyle Kingsman and Tim Miller conviction that Natalee Holloway's remains were in that trap were forces that the Arubans or John Silvetti had not reckoned with.

Thoughts?

Janet

+++++++


oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #777 11/21/08 thru
« Reply #707 on: November 23, 2008, 03:31:18 PM »

I found the trap sonar target at 1:42 am on Christmas morning.  I was asked if I had any targets to investigate with the ROV on Dev 29th.  I did.  We then performed the 1st ROV dive and confirmed the sonar target was the trap.  This was the first ROV dive performed.  No other dives were performed prior to this.  I kept the sonar target list very confidential.  I didn't need people knowing about it and people on board knew well enough not even to ask.  When it was time to dive I have the target location. Until then, it was kept confidential.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4159.msg554268;topicseen#msg554268


oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #743 3/14 -
« Reply #794 on: March 18, 2008, 07:04:38 PM »

The "99.9%" came independantly from Tim Miller to Dave H. on Dec 29th, prior to the diver visual inspection of the trap.   I can't imagine what that must have felt like to be told and then completely retracted the next day.  I couldn't believe the information was prematurely leaked to the family before we knew what we were looking at.  My heart broke for Dave and Beth.

Personally, I fed off of Tim's inflated confidence and my own on the night of Dec 29th.  I did not sleep. Few of us did. The only person able to remain completely objective, much to his credit, was John Silvetti.  In hindsight, I am in awe of him for his wisdom(from past hard experiences) and strength. At the time, I thought he was nuts for not siding with the rest of us after the first dive. It was a crushing dissapointment the evening of Dec 30th, but not over.  The tactile inspection dive was coming. Dec 30th, 2007 will forever stand in my mind as one of the hardest single days of my life.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2705.msg366386#msg366386


The Search for Natalee Holloway

Sat. 29-Dec-1100 hrs
From Tim Miller:

Please allow me to give my sincere appreciation for all the comments supporting our efforts in our search for Natalee. Today is an exciting day as we will now begin working the ROV in hopes of finding a special treasure at the bottom of the sea named Natalee.

Let us keep Natalee, Dave, and Beth in our hearts and prayers. Also, let's not forget all the other families of missing loved ones.

Texas Equusearch has been so very blessed with the support of Underwater Expeditions, the R/V Persistence (Silvetti Group), and their crew - which I think is the best in the world- for all their heartfelt efforts.

May it be His will to bring Natalee home.
-Tim Miller
Texas Equusearch

Posted by Kyle Kingman

http://nholloway.blogspot.com/2007/12/ix-dive-series-next-phase.html

Klaas ... Please delete my post #9.  I reposted and did some editing.

Thank you.

Janet

Edited by San

I love that your DIL know enough about the case to give her thoughts.

I agree with DIL in that the deal was already struck with Aruba and Silvetti, Scheafer & Trahan

I have two schools of thought about what followed.

1.  They did not expect to find the remains so quickly, if at all.
2.  If the Arubans knew where the remains were prior to the Persistence discovery,
    why had they not already retrieved them?
    I think a further deal was made on the 30th, with added incentive, after the ROV
    dive.  The shock on Hans Mos face shows surprise and concern.

WOW!!!   I have never read that dialogue before.  Katablog was not being disrespectful.  She was just stated her opinion.  Obviously ... CAPS does not tolerate decension.  That explains a lot in regards to his devoted following.

 ::MonkeyNoNo::

Janet

++++++


71. Capslockwizard on December 23rd, 2007 7:44 pm

This is my analysis about the disappearing and the events on that day. There are two possible scenarios that will fit a logic question.
The Logic question is “Where would I hide a body so that nobody will find it and at the same time lose my shoes?”

Tools I have used are:

1. Goolge Earth with Aruba MAP and area location to pin possible scenarios.
2. Time Line Event of the case.
3. My logic and Strategic thinking on solving problems.
4. Ttime line from the website http://members.aol.com/worldJOURNIER/NATALEE/NATALEEtimeline.html
I believe there is a fundamental flaw the way the authorities see the case.
If the Investigators cannot find Nathalie is because they are searching and looking in the wrong places or they must know but would not come forward.
If you ask yourself this question: “Where would I hide a body so that nobody will find it and at the same time lose my shoes?”
The answers are a lot of places can be used, but for a logic thinker there is only one answer.
And form all the articles that I have read, nobody have suggested and even mention this place.
TEST LOGIG SENARIO 1:
In Aruba in when someone dies, they can be put to rest in two ways.

1. In the grounds. But this procedure has stop due to not enough cemetery.

2. In a Kelder. A Kelder is a place above ground with 4 or 6 rooms constructed out of brick and mortar inside a Cemetery. These Kelders belong to a Family and they buy these plots form the church in the cemetery and build the Kelders on it and leave it open for when the moment arrived you have a place to rest.

Both types of method funerals will take place only in a CEMETARY.

There are several (7) CEMETARY in Aruba and most of them have KELDERS and a lot are left OPEN for when he or she dies will be buried close in the Family plot. From those seven, three is close from my analysis and from those 3, the one in Noord is to visible and no high walls. The one in Ponton/ Oranjestad is in public site from the front but from the back it has possibilities. The one in Paradera has most likely and it has a wall but anybody with a pickup or can climb easy over the wall second it is no visible from public site.

The reason that no one can find her is that she must be among all the dead in the cemetery and who is going to search a cemetery for a body where there is already a lot of body in the place.
You will never find an open grave in the ground because when someone dies in Aruba and need to be buried in the ground, the Funeral home in charge of the body will give orders to dig a grave for this person in a district in accordance with the family wishes.

To dig a grave 6 feet deep and wide enough for a body will take a lot of time by hand. Beside the ground will look disturb by the cemetery keeper. So I believe that these 4 perps would not have the time to dig a grave.

But

If you have a dead body on your hand and you need to hide it fast, the only way is to put it in an open Kelder and with only five to 6 bricks and and a bucket of cement and you are done. And if you want to make it look professional, can even give it a coat of paint color white which is the mostly use.

This last process is very easy done with 3 or 4 person.

a. Move dead body to a cemetery,

b. Cemetery door closed, then jump the fence with the body.

c. Inside the cemetery look for an open Kelder or break one open.

d. Put body in it

e. Go and get 6 pieces of bricks or use bricks that are in the cemetery already.

f. Make cement in a bucket

g. Use the bricks to close the small walls of the Kelder.

h. Paint the wall

And you are done.

The flaws with this logic are that it do not account for a missing shoe.
And so this cannot be complete true and do not compute. But possible

TEST LOGIG SENARIO 2:

1. Normaly if one want to have sex in Aruba that comes from the clubs go to a place call WHITEHOUSE and not the LIGHTHOUSE and they sound almost identical (Here I think ether the Investigator hear it wrong and JoraN and K2 continue with the kakamenia storie about the LightHouse or it was plan-out between them.) The Whitehouse is an apartment Complex where one drive in with the car into an Apartment with automatic garage doors attached. One in the garage you are also in the apartment. These apartments are for some to go and have sex in and one pay 50.00 for a couple of hours use. If foul play was committed in one of these rooms or if she was overdosed in one of these rooms, nobody will see or hear. Add checkout time you just hop in your car in the garage and drive out to the gate and no one will notice anything as she could be asleep in the back seat. Now you have a dead body that you have to get rid of in your car… you could not bring a dead body to a hotel… you have to get rid of it…and here is my view of what next move will be.

2. The next move is to look for a place to dump the body and here is where the missing shoes come to play and also the story that they were driving around statement comes to play a role). It is dark, almost 3:00 am and in Aruba there are several murky water reservoirs that can be used to dump the body (see Google Earth – Aruba) in it and she would be gone. But the question is which one? Well looking at the map you can see that from the Whitehouse Building there several c that can be used and there is one behind the Whitehouse building. Once first instinct is to dump the body there since it is closely when you exit the Whitehouse building. Now here is where it gets interesting depending how many people you have to help you carry the body to the murky pool. And not knowing that the closer you get to one of these murky pools, your feet will sink into this thick mud and when you try to pull your feet out, it will not come out because the mud has a suction that seals around the plastic of the sneakers and the only way out is to pull your feet out of the sneakers and leave the sneakers behind.
Also when you are in a hurry to get rid of the body you will not think to go get your sneakers and it is dark in that area. And I believe that that’s why Joram was without a sneaker. Now there is still a question not answer, Was Joran alone or did he got help? Knowing what we know from all that has been written about the case and blog out there. We know that the Kalpoes came to help. I do believe that Joran is stronger and weight more and that he Dump the body in one of these reservoirs and that’s why he lost his shoes. Now Joran is bear feet walking? From where was he coming from?. One thing is sure he was going to papa and mama. But what happened to the helpers? Why they did not drive Joran home. Or was it that Joran acted alone and called the Kalpoes after all what has happened to him.

3. Other scenarios about putting the body in a crypt I do believe that this was done after they arrested the 2 black men that was blamed for the crime that they did not commit.

4. Here is where the Father with help of …????…..(to be filled in ) went back and make sure that the body will disappears forever. How? Depends on the two scenarios. A) if the body is in the murky water and in the mud they would try to get it back and buried it in a cemetery among the death and that will be a difficult task to open all the graves in Aruba. B) to make sure the body is deep in the murky water with the shoes of Joran so that it will not be found.
The Fathers logic thinking would be like this. Now nobody will find her because we hide it so well, nobody is going to look in a cemetery or in the Murky Waters of Aruba and if you are going to search where to begin and with time the longer the body stays in the mud, the deeper it will sink and these are fresh water reservoirs and not salt water and the body will not come up never. As for the cemetery theory, it will be difficult to search without disturbing the graves. and another drawback is that you need permission of the families to open all the Kelders.
My Review:
With Google Earth I was able to pinpoint the possible location where one can lose a shoe in the mud and also how far it is from the Whitehouse Location and keeping an eye on the time to do the job.
The story about dumping the body on the beach cannot be done because you have already a dead body on your hand and you can do that. The chance to be seen with a dead body to high and risky.
Finding someone to dump it in the ocean means more people involved and the chance to be snitch on will increase and the chance to be seen by the coast guard is high. Also body will float back if not tied down in on the bottom floor of the sea.. This requires a more depth knowledge of buoyancy and understanding of the ocean currents of Aruba and knowing that when the wind turn even sunken boats come back to shore. No this does not compute either.

Conclusion:
the only way the body can be found is to search for the shoes round the edges for the murky pools in Aruba and when the sneaker is found, the body will be there also.

The reason they got away is that there is not a body to link the crime to.
The Father of Joran stated clearly that if there is NOT A BODY there will be NO CASE.

So to make the above statement true, the perps must have make sure that the body cannot be found, but they forgot one thing, a Body will be decompose slowly in mud and it will be found with time. Ask Aruba to search the edged of all these murky water reservoirs and where you find the sneakers you will find the body

Its is like the OJ case “The Glove does not Fit then you must quit the case” but in this case we have a missing link that is the shoes of Joran V/D Sloot.

Please review and Let me know what you bloggers think of this

Best Regards
Casplockwizard@hotmail.com


72.  katablog on December 23rd, 2007 9:25 pm

Aruba isn’t interested in searching any where. Aruba stood by and allowed Dave to search through their garbage and only did things to hamper his search.

Aruba couldn’t even completely empty one little pond and it took them days to fail at that task.

Aruba has plenty of circumstantial evidence, a confession and probably tangible evidence turned in by Art Wood that they simply discarded.

I believe there are more than 4 involved in what happened to Natalee. I believe that there is a good possibility that the Goteboes (can’t spell their name) were involved mainly due to the reports of their actions after Natalee went missing. One could also lose a shoe in a garbage dump if attempting to quickly dispose of a body. I think there’s also a possibility that Natalee’s blood might have been on Joran’s shoes and that’s why they disappeared (it’s my understanding both shoes are gone).

Lastly, I find it distasteful to trade thoughts with someone who knows so little about the case that they turn and look at Natalee’s parents who weren’t even on the Island and who have done everything in their power (including Beth staying on the crappy island for 3 months) to find their daughter’s body.


73.  Capslockwizard on December 24th, 2007 2:38 am

To Katablog, maybe you are so stupid that you do not se that I am trying to help. you are so absorb in your little peabean that you have no clue about the case.. First you need to be there to talk and see thing for your self… behinde that screen you can rumble and rumble and noting will get done… any Ideas overlook should be looked at… and this is what I am Doing now. I will go do someting about it…

What are you going to do someting..I flow down and I am here … researching what not even a private investigater did over looked.

Thank you San.

Janet

They know that Klaas.  They are just looking for something to criticize.  There is not another person
who could have kept this place in order like you have done.  They are black hearted and bitter.

Caps reply #73 to Katablog sounds just like Hotshot.

Klaas, thank you for the AVG info!

Lifesong - for your timeline
Reply #793 on: June 08, 2008, 12:27:49 PM
The premier says that altering the WEB to use natural gas instead of fuel oil must be possible in one year.  WEB will take care of the costs, about 20 millions. The natural gas will have to be transported by ship in the beginning, but the construction of a pipeline must be considered on the medium- and long run.  This pipeline will have to run via Venezuela to our island.  Oduber thinks that this may take about 3 years.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2890.msg388191#msg388191

Despite the Persistence endeavor being deceptively two fold ... I gave John Silvetti the benefit of the doubt that up until the December 30th meeting his intentions were honorable if Natalee Holloway's remains were discovered.

However .  you and my DIL could be right Magnolia.  Maybe it was never really expected that Natalee Holloway's remains would be found but ... by professing that the crew of the Persistence was looking for them afforded the opportunity to request donations through TES.

Janet

+++++++


SWLA Natives Search For Natalee Holloway
Posted: Dec 23, 2007 10:05 PM PST

Prosecutors in the Natalee Holloway case said they will reopen the case "if new serious evidence were to be found." Searching for that evidence is a world renowned underwater search team, which includes two Southwest Louisiana natives. We spoke to one of them by satellite phone Sunday afternoon off the coast of Aruba.

"We're looking for a needle in a haystack, that's a big challenge in and of itself," said Tim Trahan. 

http://www.kplctv.com/Global/story.asp?S=7537588&nav=0nqx

 peabean

 ::MonkeyWaa::

Welcome back Janet I hope you had a wonderful time.

this about meeting VNO had with Juan David Irausquin, chairman of the Aruba Trade and Industry Association

in a very short summary he says that the parliament isn't fully informed about the relocation of the port.
doesn't know how much it is going to cost, who is going to invest in it, what the benefits are for the economy.

further Irausquin isn't too worried about the global recession.
he says the Americans who go to Aruba are high-end tourists.
he does think they will spend less on the island.

How childish can they be?   ::MonkeyRoll::

Just take a look at their nitpicking, after all this time and close to 50,000 posts for them to pick apart and that's all they can find to criticize Klaas about....(when the poster himself posted it!) it's a testament to the GREAT JOB SHE HAS DONE AND IS DOING!!!!!!

One of THEM posted reminders in this forum about the terms of membership for Klaas?   ::MonkeyLaugh:: ::MonkeyLaugh:: ::MonkeyLaugh:: 

Maybe Carnut will let THEM run his forum like THEY think a good forum should be run!  ::MonkeyRoll:: ::MonkeyTongue:: ::MonkeyWink::

Good riddance!   ::MonkeyDance::

Don't worry about it Kermie, consider the source!   ::MonkeyWink::

Here's a little something to make you feel better!

(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b258/texasmom55/KERMIT/water-bags-repel-flies-2.jpg)

http://awemainta.com/home/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=357:reina-beatrix-lo-bishita-aruba-durante-e-proximo-weganan-di-reino-&catid=11:local&Itemid=56

(http://www.awemainta.com/home/images/stories/local/feb2009/02ericbrete%20(Small).jpg)

Papiamentu translation:

queen beatrix will visit aruba, during the proximo weganan of kingdom

sunday, 01 march 2009 21:24 actualmente is at aruba, funcionarionan dutch, kendenan owing to come analisa y haci the preparativonan for one possible proximo visit of his mahestad queen beatrix. queen beatrix will wanted is at aruba, as at aperture or at clausura of the weganan of kingdom, cu the year here have aruba because; thirst. one decision cu owing to being take end, cu the netherlands does not p’e boss of protocol of aruba, erick brete is envolvii in nothing y cu is motibo also, cu the do not form part of none deliberacion of preparacion. this do not first trip, because during one visit anterior of queen beatrix, in compania of prins alexander y princes maxima, also funcionarionan dutch owing to tell good cla cu they does not erick brete, boss protocol of gobierno of aruba in they becindad y gobierno have to owing to guli send abao the condicion here. mucho more detaye we not can owing to succeed achieve for of the delegacion dutch cu is at aruba, in preparacion of the visit regal here. but gobierno assure have to is at height end, but cu not owing to stay anuncia in form oficial still. come across

 ::MonkeyShocked::

Great Catch!!  Food for thought!!

The impliction is that CAPS in not from Aruba but ... spent time in Aruba ... interjecting him/herself into the case.

 ::cartwheel::

Janet

I believe that the Arubans always knew where Natalee's remains were and still are.

I also believe that Hans Mos was shocked because that idiot didn't know where the remain were.  He was brought in for damage control.  His specialty if I recall correctly was Media.  They forgot to fill the dope in on their nasty secret.

Ribbit!

I had a great weekend.  However ... it is so good to be home.

While I was away ... DIL and youngest son spent some time at our home and ... at my request ... DIL looked over a doc saved on my hard drive that I have been attempting to put together in regards to Kyle Kingman's own words.

I sooo tired now but ... tomorrow I will attempt to make some sense of her "Cole's Notes" she has put together to help me comprehend the topic from a different perspective.  I will share when the paper is finished.

GOOD NIGHT MONKEYS!!  GOOD NIGHT ZOOKEEPERS!!

Janet
7:45 PM PT

Good Night Janet!  Glad You are back home safe and sound!  ::MonkeyCool::

Goodnight Janet!   ::MonkeyCool::

Lifesong

 Was the name of the company that needed more research Sea Tech Inc? TIA

yes, i saw that too.

i guess it says preparations are made for a possible visit of Queen Beatrix to Aruba.
and there is Dutch delegation on Aruba to prepare for this but they are not meeting with Eric Brete - the chief of protocol???

might be all rumors. maybe it is an attempt to restore the relations somewhat after that VNO-report.
if she will go there will be more rumors that Beatrix is going to abdicate this year.
one last visit to the Kingdom countries before abdication...

I agree with you , San.

Got it, Kermit, thanks.

Next update planned for Tuesday - I've spent a few hours working on it today - starting in Blonde's thread, gathering more information and following interesting links. 

Kudo's to Blonde for all that great work!!

3/2/2009 Awe Mainta Page 26

http://awemainta.com/home/

(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b258/texasmom55/Misc%20News%205/03022009AweMaintaPg26.jpg)

Papimentu translation:

doctor is constata dead natural of tourist in hotel

manager on duty of one hotel lowrise is calling keep of police y is ask presencia of police, by cu one tourist owing to yame y owing to bise cu his casa do not show sign of life. n’e sitio, is talk cu the manager at keep, y the is tell declara cu for 8’or, of night, the tourist g.h.c., naci at estados unidos of 65 year, cu is kedando in the hotel owing to yame y owing to bise cu according the, his casa do not show sign of life. police owing to bay in the bedroom y owing to constata locual cu the tourist owing to tell. the tourist g.h.c. is tell police cu one day first end his casa therefore.d.c. naci at estados unidos of 69 year, was bad. dr. croes owing to constata dead natural.

Everyday we're getting closer! ::MonkeyWink::

                                 JUSTICE FOR NATALEE HOLLOWAY

                                        ARUBA.WE'RE STILL HERE...

                          TO SILVETTI,SCHAEFER,TRAHAN AND KINGMAN!
                                 THE TRUTH WILL BE REVEALED IN TIME....

                                 HOW DO YOU SLEEP AT NIGHT? ::MonkeyNoNo::

                                    IT'S A VERY HEAVY BURDEN TO CARRY!
                                       THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE

                                        NATALEE HOLLOWAY

WE HAVE NOT,NOR WILL NOT FORGET WHAT JORAN,2K'S,PAULUS,AS WELL AS THE POWERS THAT BE HAVE DONE TO YOU AND YOUR FAMILY.........


AS ROBOT'S WOULD SAY "I HATE THEM ALL"! ::MonkeyCool::

                                           KEEPTHEFAITH

                                   GOODNIGHT AND GOD BLESS

Good Night KTF and God Bless!

Thanx Hotping.One of our former players from The University of Washington is one of the missing NFL players.Keep the missing and their families in your prayers.I posted some links to the local Seattle papers in the missing persons forums!

Goodnight!

Sea Tech Industries LLC

36708503K  04/02/2008  SEA TECH INDUSTRIES, L.L.C.  221 GUNTHER LANE  BELLE CHASE, LA  70037
                 Agent:   LESLIE W. EHRET  1100 POYDRAS STREET  SUITE 3600  NEW ORLEANS, LA  70163-3600
               Member/Manager   LOUIS E. SCHAEFER, JR., Member  2210 TWIN OAKS BLVD.  KEMAH, TX  77565
               Member/Manager   BRANDON C. GASPARD, Member  221 GUNTHER LANE  BELLE CHASSE, LA  70037

http://www400.sos.louisiana.gov/public/corp_newsletter/NewCorp_20080409.txt



Leslie W Ehret

 EHRET, LESLIE W ATTY (Age 47)

Associated names:

 EHRET,  L
 EHRET, LESLIE WEILL
 WEILL, LESLIE E
 WEILL, EHRET LESLIE
 WEILLEHRET, LESLIE 

Possible Employment / Business Associations:

 LEGACY OFFSHORE, LLC

Goodnight and God bless you too, KTF!  ::MonkeyCool::

I just heard this on the news alittle while ago....I'm Praying that They will be Found Safe....

A bit O/T, but interesting nonetheless...was just catching up on some news and the headline got my attention.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123595106454404981.html

Stanford Bank Collapse Threatens Venezuela

The collapse of a Venezuelan bank owned by R. Allen Stanford, the Texas financier accused of fraud, is raising concern that the run on its deposits could spread to other banks, threatening the nation's economy.

On Saturday, President Hugo Chávez blamed his political enemies for rumors about mass withdrawals, and urged depositors not to pull their savings from domestic banks.

[Article continued @ link]

StatoilHydro Seals the Deal: Acquires 100 Percent of Peregrino
Sea Technology ,  Apr 2008
Email Print
StatoilHydro (Stavanger, Norway) and Anadarko (The Woodlands, Texas) have signed an agreement whereby StatoilHydro will take over the remaining 50 percent in the Brazilian Peregrino project.

This will give StatoilHydro a 100 percent working interest and operatorship of the development.


http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa5367/is_200804/ai_n25420611

Is it possible that the cover provided by alleged search for Natalee's remains was of more value in that market than the amount of money received in donations?

From the court docs, it seems those companies were already deeply in debt to the tune of $12 million or so and would have to sell assets to even pay creditors.

They couldn't possibly hope to get very much in the way of donations that would match those kinds of figures so I think they were after something else and that would be a legitimate reason for being in those waters day after day other than for mapping and exploration related to the oil industry.

Donations probably welcome, of course.  They do seem to like money a tremendous amount and don't seem to care to take from shareholders.  But I also think it was the perfect excuse for lurking off shore for four months in order to map or whatever in regard to their regular operations and business.

Wow That is Interesting! You think they'll listen to Chavez.... ::MonkeyNoNo::

Remember that tape Greta is supposed to have that features Paulus and some Colombians?  I have wondered if van der Straten and Paulus and these Colombinas are the ony ones who knew exactly where the remains could have been placed.  Like put on a Colombian fishing boat in that trap then pushed off at that location in the trap?

This article seems to give a wealth of knowledge pertaining to what is going on down there!I believe it is from January of 2006 but is like an amazing power-point presentation as to what's goin on.Scroll down to page 15 Look who is very close to Aruba in the Cardon 3...

http://www.pdvsa.com/interface.en/database/fichero/publicacion/1101/35.PDF

IMO, at least one ALE detective knew where she was...he and his brother gave the coordinate to the search team...

This is why I go back to the arrests & releases with no real new evidence just before the search.  Rumors of Joran being caught on tape telling a friend what happened before he ever set foot in the Range Rover.

I haven't & can't put it together, and it may be coincidence, time will tell...but I am suspicious that the recovering of her remains by ALE so she could not be found and brought home was the last phase of the Aruban coverup.  They knew the Persistence was coming...

I refuse to believe to until we prove it that these American men were not, at least originally, sincere in their commitment to bring Natalee home if they found her.  Don't know yet what changed or when, but when I read their quotes before the trip - I so want to believe them.  Who has a heart so dark and cold that they could look Dave Holloway in the eye and make those promises if they'd already been bought off?  Idk.

The search was originally supposed to be for two to three weeks.

Not sure when it was extended so.  Maybe when Dolphi tripled the area to be searched?

Venezuela worries Aruba
Caracas seen flouting pact with Russian drilling deal

Comment Anton Foek THE WASHINGTON TIMES
Tuesday, January 13, 2009
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Buzz up!ORANJESTAD, Aruba

On a clear day, one can easily see Venezuela from the southern part of this tiny Dutch Caribbean island - and its flaming towers drilling for oil and gas.

Russia and Venezuela recently began a joint drilling project in the waters bordering Aruba. The government of Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez claims 28 fields holding an estimated 27 trillion cubic meters of natural gas.

A Russian consortium that includes the state-owned Gazprom is exploring five fields. One of them - Cardon 3 - is less than 14 miles away from Aruba.

The project is causing concern in Aruba and the Netherlands, which is responsible for Aruba's foreign affairs, because Venezuela did not inform either in advance of its plans, thereby violating an agreement signed in 1971 and ratified in 1986.

 
This Dutch-Venezuelan couple and their baby have found what they hope remains a safe harbor and home on Aruba. The government, however, is concerned about a Venezuelan project to drill for oil and natural gas nearby.

"They do not really need to ask us for approvals or permission to drill, but needed to inform us," said Jocelyne Croes, a political minister at the Dutch Embassy in Washington. "We signed a treaty about that, and now they are generating new frictions in situations that used to be under control."


http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/jan/13/venezuela-worries-aruba/

Not that I think Dolph is on our side, not at all, but I think we only have Kyle's word to go on that Dolph was the one saying to go out farther.  Silvetti could have conveniently said it was because of that tip, but I think that's complete BS.  They'd take a relatively small boat that far out at night to an area called by the locals "don't go there" due to the instability of the weather & water conditions there?  On a tip that Deepak said this to a friend while they were doing drugs?  BS  BS   BS   BS  I don't even begin to believe that tip, if it was a tip it was pre-arranged as part of the final plan (and even I don't think that makes sense either!)  I can't imagine that Deepak would that - I'm not convinced Deepak even knew where the remains were.

But ALE knew...they had the coordinate.

Btw, the grid was tripled almost immediately after the remains were taken from the cage.  Mission accomplished - let's map!   ::MonkeyNoNo::   ::MonkeyWaa::

KTF - is it just me, or does it look like Chevron's portion of the project sits almost right on top of Aruba?

What really salts my snails is when the one doing the most complaining and wrongly pointing fingers has sent out holiday greetings showing the email addresses of every monkey in their address book, being too lazy/stupid to use the blind copy feature to protect the addresses of others.

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3549/3321294747_f7cb648c99.jpg?v=0)

Well, there again, that is Kyle's story.  Did the witness with a vision tell the coordinates or were they told to him?  IDK.  Is this the same as the pond witness or yet another one? 

But it does make sense that someone else would know because I can't see either Paulus or Uncle Jan risking being caught redhanded so someone would have to act as transport between them and the Colombians and member of ALE would make the most sense.  And only had approximate latitude I believe? 

But then the trap has never really made any sense to me because why not just out at open sea hundreds of miles away for that matter?  Were the remains being kept close to blackmail or use against someone if the need arose or what?  Something about that has always been hinky to me, just didn't make any sense at all.

I think the trap makes sense only in that it would prevent the body from washing back up on shore.

I agree Lifesong.   ::MonkeyNoNo::

Goodnight everyone!   ::MonkeyCool::

Have the monkeys figured out why anyone would map that side of the island?  Any evidence that there is something of commercial value there?  With the U.S. on the road to energy independence, and OPEC with China and India as great customers with rising consumption, who will profit from all this mapping?  Anyone on Aruba report building yet?  Maybe a tidbit in Diario?

Great find KTF! This tells the big picture and why Oduber has been in discussions with China as well as in bed with Chavez for some time now. Oil and natural gas are perhaps the only 'gold' in an global economy and it's also why characters like Abramovich were setting up operations from Aruba years ago. Remember, one of Abramovich's yachts was docked in Aruba the night Natalee disappeared, he also has his own 737 licensed out of Aruba. He's a russian oligarch that made his fortune from oil and gas in Russia and was noted as having moved to pursue the South American untapped resources to capitalize on those even prior to Natalee's disappearance. Some of the comments by 'anonymous' on michellesaysso's website at the link I posted references even Russian investment in upgrading equipment at the Aruba airport.

What Aruba earns from a tourist economy, even at the height of that prior to Natalee disappearing could not hold a candle to earnings from oil and gas, even as just a partner for operational access if not the oil and gas off Aruba's shores that can be mined.

Was the Persistence a cover for the required mapping that needed to occur but Aruba didn't want the Dutch to know about in advance? If I were Shaefer and looking for economic survival and growth, I would pursue a piece of that Venezuelan and Asian market too. I'm not stating unequivocably that's the truth of the supposed Persistence search for Natalee, but if I were Oduber then I would feel quite sure the Dutch would not wish to bring any further public disapproval by refusing the search to take place?

Even if true, I feel sure Natalee's parents would be less concerned about those goals and just any chance to locate their daughter's remains. Perhaps that's even why others criticize SM pursuing understanding better what the true goal of the Persistence was, I don't know. What I do know is I think the critics have lost sight of line that was crossed - a trap was found that might have contained human remains. If it did not, then exposing that with photos to substantiate that, and full transparency would have been so EASY on the part of Aruba. In fact, they could have even turned that around to state "look what lengths we have gone to in order to find her, to solve this case".

They did not. Hinky, sorry but it's why some here want answers. I am tiring of hearing threats over this to include threats via email to notify my place of employment by one poster now at GM, in an effort to keep me quiet here.

KTF I excerpted this from the PDF you posted and it does tell the story of the future for Aruba and Chavez' grand plan. This should make it abundantly clear to those wondering why Persistence would have wanted a piece of this action. The former CEO of Shaefer's fine outfit Superior he went on to join a company carrying with him a contract with Venezuela he had negotiated and worked on while with Shaefer's outfit ! I'll post that detail too from the lawsuit.

Again, this might not be all of the answers but I surely do think it's part of the answer.

Did you read the PDF that KTF posted?  Many reasons not the least of which would be a clear port for transport of oil products to all points north, west and east.

I have never believed there was a "vision".  That is a bunch of BS and the detective knew exactly where Natalee was.

Plenty of peoples hearts are that dark and cold and could do something like that as long as the money was there.  This has always been about follow the money.  People will do anything for it and even betray a family looking so desperately for their daughter.

No one is that dumb to trust the ALE after all these years.  They were in bed with the enemy.

Was the original plan to dive down there say there is nothing in the trap in the presence of one man we all trusted and then that would be the end of the story.  Tim Miller thought there was something in that trap and they didn't fool him.  Their plan backfired.

JMO.

Don't get me started on bulk emails  ::MonkeyNoNo::

Good morning Monkeys!

Lifesong - I believe it was you who posted in the last thread about the different areas off of Venezuela for their long term projects.

Specifically the Caribbean location.

Here is (specifically) where their Deltana Platform is.  Keep in mind, Superior was already in Trinidad working with BP prior to Nov 2007 when they headed to Aruba........

Perhaps that is what Mermis was doing?  Travelling to Venezuela under the guise of current work with BP offshore of Trinidad............while perhaps negotiating another platform?  This was to be a 6 year project, from 2002 - 2008/2009.



Five energy companies to develop Deltana Platform project

23-08-02

Five major energy companies will have a chance to develop four blocks of Venezuela's Deltana Platform natural-gas project while a fifth block remains up for grabs next year, Oil Minister Rafael Ramirez said during a ceremony at the presidential palace. British Petroleum  will enter in direct negotiations with the Oil Ministry to develop together with Venezuela's state-owned oil monopoly Petroleos de Venezuela the first block, Dorado.

ChevronTexaco and the British Gas Group  have been labelled as preferred bidders for the development of block two, called Loran-1. Statoil and TotalFinaElf were invited to compete for block three and four, LauLau-1 and Cociuna-1.

A fifth block originally was expected to come into the hands of ExxonMobil. However, given the complicated nature of the block, a final decision on the fifth block has been deferred until the first quarter of next year, Ramirez said. Final deals between the government and the companies are expected to be signed by the end of the year.

The government has set several conditions, including: an obliged participation of 1 % to 35 % of state-owned oil monopoly PdVSA in each of the blocks, guaranteed financing and the development of national capital. The majority of the companies had said they want to operate the five blocks with only one or two operators to avoid higher operating costs.

The Deltana Platform, which is close to Venezuela's border with Trinidad, consists of 27,000 sq km with estimated proven gas reserves of 20 to 30 tcf. The first exploratory well has produced 62 mm cf of natural gas and condensates a day. The project is expected to top $ 3.8 bn over the next six years and create thousands of jobs.  

Venezuela is actively promoting gas deals to reduce its dependence on crude and refined products. It also wants to compete with neighbouring Trinidad and Tobago on LNG exports, especially to the US East Coast. A $ 2.5 bn LNG complex that is to be constructed at the Paria Peninsula in the coming years should help achieving thatgoal.

Oil revenue is critical to Venezuela, accounting for one-third of its gross domestic product, one-half of government income and 80 % of export receipts.

http://www.gasandoil.com/goc/company/cnl23803.htm

What is especially troubling to me in all this is that these dealings and defrauding of stockholders did not happen long ago and far away but before, during and after the search for Natalee.

And stealing from stockholders is wrong no matter who does it.

Jim Mermis

Thank you, Ken. Good morning everyone. I’d like to thank you all for joining us today on our third quarter conference call for the quarter ended September 30, 2007

seekingalpha.com/article/54414-superior-offshore-international-q3-2007- earnings-call-transcript
 

 

As everyone is aware, our Trinidad project was running full steam ahead during the third quarter. Three of our vessels, the Gulmar Condor, Seamec III, and the Crossmar 14 are still currently working there for BP.

We also mobilized a work class ROV onto a third party vessel and provided services during the quarter to two other operators in Trinidad. Once the BP project is completed, we've got another project lined up in the region. Trinidad is a market that we expect to remain active, and we have recently opened an office there.

http://seekingalpha.com/article/54414-superior-offshore-international-q3-2007-earnings-call-transcript?page=2

 

The Seamec III also had full near utilization in Trinidad during the third quarter, and we see opportunities to keep her working in the region after we have completed the BP project. The Crossmar 14 is working in Trinidad as well, and we're in the process of securing additional work for this construction barge either in Trinidad or in the Gulf of Mexico after completion of the BP project.
http://seekingalpha.com/article/54414-superior-offshore-international-q3-2007-earnings-call-transcript?page=2
 

 Thank you, Roger. Before we take questions, I'm going to spend a few minutes talking about what we're seeing for the rest of 2007 and what we see going into 2008. Our projects in Trinidad are going very well, and as I mentioned earlier, we currently have three vessels in Trinidad; two DP saturation vessels, the Gulmar Condor and the Seamec III; and an anchored construction barge, the Crossmar 14.

We expect the work on the current project to be completed around the end of this year or sometime during the first quarter of 2008. It is important to note that ever since our arrival in Trinidad back in June we have been in discussions with other operators in the region, and we feel pretty good about future business opportunities for diving and ROV surfaces in this part of the world.

http://seekingalpha.com/article/54414-superior-offshore-international-q3-2007-earnings-call-transcript?page=4

 

We’ve also got work in hand in Trinidad, half of the BP project, and as I said previously, we have already picked up other work in Trinidad for two other operators there with an ROV vessel. So we're feeling pretty good about the future coming up internationally

http://seekingalpha.com/article/54414-superior-offshore-international-q3-2007-earnings-call-transcript?page=6

 

Yes that is an important point Anna.

I don't fault Schaefer for pursuing business either, but I do think the premise that they were searching solely for Natalee and allowed Aruba to abscond the trap are the key issues along with the fraud. Did Aruba have true jurisdiction over the trap? I don't think I've ever asked that question before and am sure I've missed something the rest of you know while I was working on the road, but did they have ultimate jurisdiction at that location offshore?

None,

I did some brief research into this very issue last Spring.  Ownership of items found at sea......

It gets fuzzy with salvage laws, etc...........and the closest I could come to finding anything was an article about unclaimed human remains then being under the ownership of the recovery vessel.

The fuzzy part came about with regards to who had the right to 'claim' the remains.  Aruba?  Or Natalee's family.

I got completely lost, but maybe some Monkeys could find that answer for us.

Wanted to add this, as the timing was interesting - considering when Schaefer contacted Dave Holloway.....

In May 2007, we entered into a letter of intent with a major energy company for a significant project in Trinidad. The project will utilize two of our DP vessels, the Gulmar Falcon and the Gulmar Condor , one of our work class remotely operated vehicles, or ROVs, and a four-point barge that will be provided by a third party under a cooperation arrangement. The project, which is on a dayrate basis, is expected to begin in June 2007 and is scheduled to last for approximately four to five months. As a partial result of this international expansion, we estimate that approximately 75% of our revenues during the duration of the Trinidad project will be derived from non-hurricane-related projects.
http://sec.edgar-online.com/superior-offshore-international-inc/10-q-quarterly-report/2007/05/17/Section7.aspx

#  CapslockWizard on January 16th, 2008 8:40 pm
klassend: these people and Garry Young and some lady.
These folks are from an Idian tribe that come forth with damaging info on Beth Twitty.
Tey have mention a web site but it seems not to exist.
commmnet please via email, do you know these people.

I was not in Aruba when this case has happend but they seems to blame Beth…

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2008/01/16/beth-holloway-on-the-oprah-winfrey-show-discussing-missing-daughter-natalee-holloway/

I would like to have Beth Twitty e-mail, I think I have figured out this puzzel of this case and where his doughter may have been burried in Aruba. Urgent
Posted by: Capslockwizard | Friday, December 28, 2007 at 10:16 PM
http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2005/08/beth_twitty_hop.html

thank you texasmom for the tasty treat
((burp)))

off I hop

I agree.  I know that my email was included in email lists of some who have been directly connected to a SM supported Natalee Holloway cause.  However ... I requested that my email be dropped from the list and ... my requested was immediately complied with.

GOOD MORNING MONKEYS!!  GOOD MORNING ZOOKEEPERS!!

Janet

Thanks Jen, I can't locate anything clear cut either. One would think with wrecks that have been discovered by private searchers and salvage firms, that there has to be something in writing regarding this. You might know having interacted with Kyle directly, but didn't Silvetti make the judgment call to allow Aruba to come on board to take the trap once it was recovered? I would expect that he had a sidebar with Shaefer that may have been private to even Kyle but then maybe he did not, we can't know. Ultimately Aruba chose not to share photos of all that was contained in that trap post recovery, why not if it was nothing?

No matter how you slice and dice this, it still comes back to that issue. It would be interesting to hear what some of the major shareholders of Strategic inclusive in that suit might have to say regarding this, for it appears some of them did have insider information from various employees.

Ribbit Kermit.

CAPS did not plan out his/her strategy of deception very well when the choice was made to interject.

1.  Grasp of the English language (Yes/No)
2.  Concrete theory (Yes/No)
3.  Aruban (Yes/No)
4.
5.

Janet
9:10 AM PT

It's not neurosurgery to create a BCC group of recipients on an email then to place your own email in the "to" which then protects those addresses; then each recipient just needs to be sure to respond back carefully noting to use only "reply to sender" and not "reply all". This is email 101 and it's exasperating anyone can't make the simple adjustment in their email rigor or lack thereof.

The only thing clear cut in writing that I was able to find, was in regard to military remains at sea.

Kyle never addressed this issue, nor did he respond to it when I brought it up.

The only 'detail' he gave us was what he similarly posted at his blog during the search - that they developed a working relationship with Aruban authorities.

There were details after all were on board Dec 30th that he gave us - such as, Aruban divers deemed that cage to be "not case related", and therefore Aruba had no interest in it.

At that point, Kyle made the statement to all on board that "we do have an interest" and that they would recover the cage themselves.

That is when Mos purportedly said they (Aruba and Persistence) dive on it - but it would take 1 -2 weeks for a forensics team to arrive, and that he would let Persistence know.

Good Morning None.

I never took the "email 101" course.

 ::MonkeyHaHa::

Janet

Well, they left the trap in place and it was only the contents that were in question.

I bleieve it was Caps who said Silvetti said it only contained plastic bags and yet we see contained in the evidence bags things that certainly are not plastic bags.

I can only assume that Kyle Kingman's own words encompassing his analysis of the ROV images in regards to the contents of the cage required damage control.  It appears that  the strategy to distance Kingman's own words dictates undermining his professional qualifications?

Janet
______ 

QUALIFICATIONS/EXPERTISE - THEN AND NOW?

THEN - NOVEMBER 2007

The Search for Natalee Holloway
Monday, November 26, 2007

I. Mobilization

Kyle Kingman - Field Project Manager, Geophysical Engineer and Marine Geologist - Responsible for side scan sonar acquisition, digital processing, analysis, and target identification. Kyle will assist in side scan sonar operation and guide the ROV (remotely operated vehicle) team to each sonar target.

Dr. Rob Floyd - Marine Geologist /Archaeologist - Responsible for analog sonar data interpretation and analysis and quality control.

Posted by Kyle Kingman
 
http://jlbworld.com/files/chapter23/sitedevotedtoseasearch.htm

http://nholloway.blogspot.com/2007/11/mobilization.html


NOW - FEBRUARY  2009

The Search for Natalee Holloway
Monday, November 26, 2007

I. Mobilization  

Kyle Kingman - Geophysical Engineer and Marine Geologist

Dr. Rob Floyd - Marine Geologist /Archaeologist

Posted by Kyle Kingman

http://nholloway.blogspot.com/2007/11/mobilization.html


++++++

QUALIFICATIONS - KYLE KINGMAN’S WEBSITE

Kyle Kingman’s Specialties:

Project Management, Sonar Acquisition, hydrographic survey, data processing, remote sensing data analysis.

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/b/65/464

Hi Janet, honestly I was more referencing emails from business emails by posters here, not personal. I didn't mean to diminish anyone either, it's good you requested your email be removed though to protect your privacy. Smart you !

When Schaefer's name was first brought into the search, I remember him saying
that he had two fully equipped ships that were just about to finish up a project
in Trinidad and Tobago and he would bring those ships to Aruba for the search.

We saw pictures of those two ships.   

Yes, much larger ones.  I believe Red did a Front Page article on that as well?

Apparently ... Kyle Kingsman was unware that the original plans for the Natalee Holloway undertaking  included TWO SHIPS.

Janet

++++++++

TWO SHIPS

FOX ONLINE - JAMIE COLBY
July 15, 2007

COLBY:  Tim, why are they (Arubans) standing in your way?

MILLER: I don't think they can stand in our way. With the equipment we got and if we have to go in off of Venezuela. Whereever we need to go into, we've got the equipment. In fact they are more than welcome to be on the ship with us. The ships that we are taking over are a 265 foot ship and a 340 foot ship which have all the latest technology on it. In fact the owner of this company, Louis Shaeffer of Superior Offshore International, Louis called Dave Holloway up about two months ago when I was at Louis' house. He said "Mr Holloway, I'm going to promise you something, if your daughter is in a metal container out there in that water, we are going to bring her home."


DANA PRETZER
June 8, 2007

MILLER:  How can you put a timeline on it but you know with the size of these ships, the technology that we're going over there with, we're optimistic. These ships are actually equipped (inaudible) incredible company that's offering these services and again we're going to be interviewing them next week and it's something we've been wanting to make happen, for somebody to step forward. I've been talking to them since December ....

http://scaredmonkeysradio.com/2007/06/08/the-dana-pretzer-show-friday-june-8th-2007-special-guests-tim-miller-robert-peters-janice-smolinski/

+++++++


Rob
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #744 3/19 -
« Reply #480 on: March 20, 2008, 09:14:32 PM »

Kyle, I have a question.

Initially when the search was announced there was indication that TWO ships were going to be used.

One 265 feet and the other 340 feet. How could those ships be justified when the Persistence was 'over kill'?

In fact many people blogged about the size of these ships and wonder if it was economically feasible. Was there a re-direct in which ship(s) would be used?

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2721.msg367237#msg367237


oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #744 3/19 -
« Reply #484 on: March 20, 2008, 09:27:54 PM »

First, WOW I haven't heard anything about two ships, or ships of that size being used in the search. I don't know where this information came from.  The Persistence was the right boat for the job.  Let me explain over kill.  Over kill was when we were finished using the capabilities intrinsic to the Persistence.  This includes a geophysical suite, namely side scan sonar, magnetometer, and bathymetric mapping abilities.  Once this portion of the work was complete, we no longer needed these capabilities. The information that came out early on about these tw boats you mentioned... I have not seen... and I was involved in the planning.
 
There was a re-direct in which ship would be used before the Persistence.  I'm unsure of the boat that was to be used, but it withdrew at the last minute during mobilization if I'm not mistaken.  If memory serves, it was a similar size to the Persistence.  I'm sure someone here within minutes of the posting will correct me and post all the information on the boat.  It may have been the Apache.  Not sure.  Either way, the Persistence was just right for the job.  However, it isn't a ROV boat even though we used a small inspection class ROV with it.  It also lacks a dynamic positioning system enabling it to "hover" over a fixed position using bow and stern thrusters.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2721.msg367241;topicseen#msg367241

This was posted at BFN by LegallyLex who is Silvetti's sister:

http://blogsfornatalee.com/forum/index.php?topic=8398.msg408940#msg408940

So when Mermis talks of two ships finishing up a project in Trinidad and Tobago
in a few months, doesn't it stand to reason that those were the two ships that
they intended to take to Aruba?

I think they had planned the guise of searching for Natalee to get the ships
into Aruban waters as early as Spring of 2007.

Well isn't that special! ::MonkeyHaHa::  Again, Monkeys are called ignorant. ::MonkeyTongue::
But not by Beth.

Legally Lex didn't mention Kyle and all of his words.

 ::MonkeyHaHa::

You are right Magnolia and there can only be ONE reason to that; Beth is totally unaware of what`s going on here  ::MonkeyWink::

Well LegallyLex.Have you spoken with Beth regarding the ignorance of the Monkey's??I doubt it!!!!In regards to your brother John Silvetti.He can not,nor will not be able to escape the TRUTH....One more thing Legallylex.Anytime you want to fax the original copies of The Persitence's logs in regards to whom was on that ship and when.We'll be waiting..Have a feeling we'll be waiting a LONG,LONG,LONG time...

KEEPTHEFAITH

Maybe you should reference RED's post's again bastibro! ::MonkeyWink::

LOGIC DICTATES BASTIBRO....... ::MonkeyCool::

OH , For heavens sake. This is Silvettis sister? Of course she'd say this.  ::MonkeyLaugh::

However, regarding the person who so "gallantly" notified her of the postings here at Scared Monkeys, does she still "claim" to want justice for Natalee and her family? Or is she also in the business of coddling the enemies now?

Funny how people just cannot seem to get their priorities straight in this case.  Are they all friends of those two outstanding authors that just wrote another 3rd rate birdcage liner that they call an online book? 

Thanks San.

LegallyLex does not get it or maybe she does.  Conspiracy theories are not necessary.  Kyle Kingman's own words tell the entire story.

Those who uphold John Silvetti never claim that Kyle Kingman's posts do not not portray the truth.  Logic dictates that they would be furious with him.  Logic dictates that Silvetti would be launching a lawsuit again Kingman for defaming him.  Logic dictates that Silvetti would not be including Kingman from any oil mapping ventures.

Either Kyle Kingsman lied in post after post after post that imply that John Silvetti betrayed the family of Natalee Holloway or ... Kingman reveal the truth and ... the opportunity to bring Natalee Holloway home to her family ... her country ... was lost forever.

Which is it LegallyLex?

Janet

++++++

Hotshot
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
« Reply #202 on: December 04, 2008, 03:07:37 AM »

... You guys are going to look really silly in the end for downing the people like silvetti, and Kyle, and CAPS.  There must be more to do with your time then pick on the ones who actually go out of their way to help.  I do not see anyone here going out there to actually help as these people did ...

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4186.msg565899#msg565899
 

Thanx San.Feel free to read again Bastibro.... ::MonkeyWink::

I wonder if legally lex would be willing to respond to the allegations within the lawsuit against Superior by it's stockholders? That would be such a help in this, of course unless all of those stockholders are lying as well?

Someone please update me on what I missed, what case has Silvetti worked on with Tim that was solved? I am serious too, I truly must have missed the case they solved to "closure"? Is she referencing the Anthony case?

Bastibro ... a reminder.

Janet

++++

Red
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #802 2/21/08 -
« Reply #335 on: February 23, 2009, 12:30:16 AM »

Hey Monkeys,

Spoke with Beth today. Nothing of any pressing news, we just had not chatted in a while and it was great to do some catch up with her.

However, I took the opportunity to ask Beth a couple of questions that she was kind enough to answer.

Question: Beth, this may come as a strange question but in light of some people writing misrepresentations regarding stuff that SM has done ... has Scared Monkeys on the FP or in the forum ever made comments, posts or done anything that would have upset you that you were angered or disagreed with?

Answer: Red, are you kidding. Scared Monkeys has done so much good from the beginning how could you even ask that. Are you crazy!

My own comment ... its also not like the family has specifically asked for help regarding certain things since 2005. Whether it be advice, news updates, research or translations.     

The fact of the matter is folks that there has been so much done for Natalee's family behind the scenes that goes unsaid, that they all know and have a direct line if they want to ask a question. They do not rely on third party discussion. Generally speaking over the years, family members have contacted us, not the other way around. I do not believe in burdening people who have lost so much.

The truth of the matter is that SM, Red personally, has a a relationship with members of Natalee's family and nothing anyone tries to do, say or lie about will change that fact. We have fought in the trenches together and have bonds outside of the internet and this case. There is nothing that internet trouble makers can do to break up friendships that exist in the real world.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4574.msg686191#msg686191

LOGIC DICTATES JANET.I have a feeling Bastibro will not answer!

SM has not made any allegations nor claimed to have any information of its own in regards to this search.

All information posted here was provided by Kyle Kingman.

Perhaps it is Kyle who is ignorant or misinforming?

Interesting how this fact is always ignored completely by those who defend having given all products of the search to ALE, the very ones who have historically caused all evidence to vanish.

Bastibro ... a reminder.

Janet

++++

klassend
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #787 12/24/08 -
« Reply #411 on: December 30, 2008, 06:53:44 PM »

Sent to me by Natalee's Freebirds:

Please feel free (if you'd like) to post this at your board.
 
During the journey of the Persistence to Aruba, Kyle reached out and emailed with us.  During that time, one of the questions posed to him was regarding protocol if/when Natalee's remains were found.
 
Kyle's response was that he was unsure, but felt that would be settled before the search began.
 
The cautions were given to him about the lack of integrity on the part of Aruba's law enforcement, prosecutor's office, and its judiciary.
 
Contact with Kyle continued throughout the duration of the search by the Persistence.
 
Once back home, Kyle asked us for our help.  He was very concerned about the activities that transpired during their search - specifically surrounding the find of the fishing cage and its contents.  Kyle wanted our help in presenting this information in a factual way, to then be given to Natalee's family. 
 
This was March 18, 2008.  At that time, Kyle assured us he had just recently sent the images from the Dec 30th and Jan 7th dives to the FBI, but had never received a response from them.
 
We later found that to be false.
 
Also at that time, Beth's brother saw the images Kyle had shared with us - but none of the detail he shared later.

We compiled the images Kyle presented us, along with his opinions and the facts surrounding the sequence of events regarding that fishing cage.  Kyle stated he would be getting in touch with Beth Holloway.
 
We later found out that never happened.

At this time, Kyle shared with us the broadcast networks he had approached in February, in an attempt to sell these images to the highest bidder.
 
This didn't concern us greatly at that time - as we were under the impression US law enforcement and Natalee's family had already been made aware of their find.
 
Approximately May 2008 Kyle began dodging questions for details (we had asked for names of Aruban police and divers to be included in our documentation of these events), hedging on moving forward with this, and then he completely disappeared from our board.
 
During that time, we learned Kyle had never contacted Beth, or Dave, or the FBI with this information.
 
We put our original plan into motion - that of presenting this information in a clear and concise manner, and we sent it to Beth Holloway.
 
Beth was disturbed, needed time to digest the information, and wanted to share it with someone she trusts.
 
When Tim Miller was returning to Aruba this past fall, Beth gave us permission to release this information publicly.  

At that point, we gave it to John Kelly, Carmen Adams with the FBI, and got it ready for public consumption.
 
The next step was to publish this information at our blog.
 
One of our members felt we were betraying Kyle in doing so, contacted him, and he re-surfaced at our site with threats of litigation against us - stating this was his "intellectual property" and we could not use it.
 
That of course concerned us greatly - as none of us could afford to be sued.
 
He also stated at that time, Luis Shaefer had just recently sold the rights of the video of these images to a broadcast company for the purposes of a documentary.
 
We contacted legal counsel and were advised to keep our distance from any Persistence crew member, in the face of potential obstruction/accessory charges.
 
At this point, one of our members decided to brace for the possibility of civil litigation, resigned from our membership to protect it from same, and posted what he knows to be factual at SM.
 
Kyle did tell us human remains were found in that fish cage.
 
Kyle did tell us about John Silvetti's intent to open an office on the island of Aruba, to enable him ease in conducting business in South America, and Aruba.
 
Kyle also told us of John's absolute refusal to give that fish cage and its contents any credence - before even it was inspected on Jan 7th.
 
Kyle told us in no uncertain terms that Tim Miller and Dateline were abruptly removed from the Persistence on Dec 30, resulting in only Persistence crew being aboard between that date and the Jan 7 dive of the Arubans.
 
Nothing that was posted at SM by kermit was incorrect, out of context, or in any way false.
 
Regards,
 
Former Natalee's Freebirds Administrator

Natalee and her family deserve justice - and we will not let up until they have it!

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4269.msg603349#msg603349

Me thinks the Monkey's research is striking a NERVE!!! ::MonkeyDance::

We'll continue every day Persistence...

And you spoke to Beth when.....bastibro?  Maybe you are confusing Beth with Robin.

San ... Post 97.

excluding s/b including

Thank you.

Janet

Maybe the Stockholders are ignorant as well.  Yes, I would certainly like to hear an explanation for this Class Action Law Suit.

Nonesuche, Tim Miller has been involved in so many searches lately I can't begin to keep up with them.  I think there was a search off the coast for a missing college student in which several diving companies assisted, Silvetti's being just one of several.  Not even sure who found the student but believe he was rescued.

Tim Miller is spread so thin you can see through him these days.   ::MonkeyNoNo::

I`m convinced Beth is being gentle to Red here.

Of course Beth is very grateful for all the good things the Scared Monkeys have done in the past.

She is a gentle wonderful woman and i don`t think she`s been reading here recently.

JMHO

Keep on going Bastibro,that`s how i come to get to know you better! ::MonkeyWink::


And off he runs......... ::MonkeyDance::

Let's see:

ldstlou - has told Jug everything being said.
BFN - has told Dave, Robin, Silvetti, etc. everything being said.
HotShot - has told Dave everything being said.

But after all is said and done they are basing the movie of Natalee off Beth's book.  I think the mother knows plenty and she is one smart lady.

If Beth objected to things that are being said she would have talked to Red.

Wrong!  Again ::MonkeyWink::

And it was family memeber PI who first posted and said the game was fixed.

I wonder if all the above informants made it crystal clear that Kyle is the source of all information about the search.  If being honest, they should.

I have wondered why Debbie has been hanging in the rafters so much lately.
I guess she has been doing a copy and paste job for Legally Lex since Legally
Lex thanks her for sending the information.

B-I-N-G-O.

And why no mention of the SOURCE of ALL THE INFORMATION,
Kyle Kingman?  Surely the fact that is all came from him was included.

Kyle Kingman's own words along with Lifesong's timeline reveals that AHATA group are not the only Americans who are one with the Arubans in furthering a coverup that that has prevented justice from prevailing for Natalee Holloway for almost four years.

Despicable!!

Janet

++++++

Proverbs 22:1
A good name is rather to be chosen than great riches.

Matthew 16:26
For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his soul?
 

Instead of name calling, I would like to see the information refuted if it can be.

And perhaps an explanation for why Kyle said all those things if they are false and misinformation.

Why Kyle lie to monkeys and freebirds?

Red's a big boy and he can take it especially when it comes to Beth being Natalee's voice.

She is grateful for the things that are being done by Scared Monkeys in the past, present and future.  This will end when we find justice for her daughter.

I think she has been informed at what is going on here lately.

JMO.

We must continue the great research into Schaefer,Silvetti,Trahan,as well as anyone else that was potentially involved in THE FINALE TO THE GREAT ARUBAN COVER-UP!!


ME THINKS ALL THE RESEARCH HAS BEEN HITTING A NERVE.. ::MonkeyDance::

I know that Beth is aware of what is being posted here because I have seen Private Eye
signed in.  I think now he reads without signing in.

No doubt in my mind that Beth knows what Kyle has said.

WoW!  Of all the people to speak for Beth, she chose Bastibro?

 ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyHaHa::

 ::MonkeyWaa::

Isn't that the TRUTH! ::MonkeyLaugh::

I agree Magnolia.

YEP  ::MonkeyCool::

 ::MonkeyShocked::

bastibro ... do your words imply that you have been speaking to Beth Holloway in regards to Kyle Kingman's own words.

Yes?  No?

Janet

Did you get a 'snow day' San?

Yes I did  ::cartwheel::

Nope!  Did you speak to Beth regarding the slander(my opinion) and conspiracy`s which are underway here?  ::MonkeyCool::

 ::MonkeyRoll:: ::MonkeyRoll:: ::MonkeyRoll::
Keep on going Bastibro,that`s how i come to get to know you better!

Bastibro, remind me....I was busy knitting....who is being slandered?

Did you finnish my goat wool socks Mag? ::MonkeyHaHa::

Please don`t ask for the known way  ::MonkeyEek::

Logic dictates that Beth's brother is not keeping to himself all his concerns/ frustrations/ suspicions regarding what Kyle Kingman posted on the SM site prior to the Natalee's Freebirds' revelations.

Janet
______

PRIVATE EYE

private eye
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #737 2/29 -
« Reply #559 on: March 01, 2008, 04:08:07 PM »

I hope that the Persistence has not done all of this work and gone to all of this expense only to have gotten itself into an arrangement whereby Aruban divers are the ones who actually verify the targets and are the first ones to physically retrieve evidence, with no American divers physically with them. If so, all I can say is I just can't believe this has happened. But surely I am wrong.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2662.msg358435#msg358435


private eye
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #737 2/29 -
« Reply #655 on: March 01, 2008, 06:07:48 PM »

Either something grand has happened or something mighty dirty just happened. You don't spend that much money to identify targets that you are not going to search. Why get Beth and Dave's hopes up, find probable targets allegedly, and then go, with very little warning, oops, we cannot afford to search afterall? Why does Chaney fly in at midnight the day before the Persistence pulls out? Coincidental? Silveti and Chaney are both active in the Houston area. Bush and Silveti the same plus the same business interests. Why Ocean EX would interject himself in the cage as he did last night? Why is Joran suddenly in a mental hospital?

And now that they have identified the locations of the targets, with the Aruban police force on board, they are retiring from the search, with guess who now in the know. And what is funny, is it was Oceans Ex fear that we might give some secrets away. Hell, the coverup people already have the secrets, first hand from the horse themselves.

Something grand had to have happened. If not, then this was the cruelest hoax of yet.  And I just don't believe these people are anything but nice, so something grand had to have happened.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2662.msg358544#msg358544


private eye
 Discussion #742 3/10 -
« Reply #686 on: March 13, 2008, 06:38:07 PM »

... But sharing information with people who work for people who are directly orchestrating the cover up, Rudy, or the Dutch, is the most irresponsible investigating I can imagine. What kills this investigation is people having to come into it, wanting to apply basic investigatory protocols into place, and then having those channels sabotage the new evidence that the new players discover. Of course, as is happened everytime in this case, the new people eventually come to a point where the manipulation of the evidence is undeniable, but by then the fruits of their work are gone, and there is simply another member of the believers of the cover up group. What I pray that Kyle and the crew of the Persistence will determine, is that  regardless of how hard working the man that they are working with appears to work, his work belongs to Rudy, and Rudy belongs to the local dutch.  

We are not hysterical, ignorant, paranoid people. We have seen the cover up in action, in broad daylight, with impunity, and if you disregard our warnings, you will become the next chump in a series of chumps, no matter how sophisticated your equipment, the level of your educational achievement, or the extent of your job skills and work history.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2689.msg364750#msg364750


private eye
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
« Reply #499 on: April 09, 2008, 12:39:50 AM »

If I understood Kyle correctly, and that would be that the Arubans retrieved and possessed all finds, not sharing anything with the crew, then that effort was a waste of time and effort. The only thing it could have accomplished was to locate additional evidence for the Arubans to destroy. I am not sure if that was the protocol out of Aruba's waters though. The effort was superb, but the game was fixed.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2769.msg372245;topicseen#msg372245

It astounds me,why some continue to either post here,and or read here,if it's all conspiracy theory's and Slander..Why are you here and what is your purpose if you can't logically refute Kyle's words?To be a distraction is my answer!Nothing more nothing less!!

Is it a surprise for me!!

 ::cartwheel::

I am so thankful you are good at something Magnolia.

 ::MonkeyWink::

Janet

It sure ain't socks for bastibro!! ::MonkeyTongue::

I'm not telling and ... you can't make me.

 ::cartwheel::

 
Janet

I'm not telling and ... you can't make me.

 ::cartwheel::

 
Janet

San ... I messed up on post 138.  Please delete.

I promise to never never to bother you again.

Janet

I fixed it already.

Just got back home.

I would like to add my feelings on this as well.  It was Kyle that aroused suspicions regarding the integrity of the Persistence search.  KYLE, a member of the crew. 

We do not take orders from family members and are beholden to nobody regarding what research we do on cases.  That includes this case.   That said Red spoke with Beth and her response is posted.   

You resist tickling?  ::MonkeyHaHa::

Asdrubal said that PDVSA will use its plants in Aruba, Bonaire, and Isla in Curazao as distribution centers to distant markets such as China and India. These centers have deep-water terminals that are compatible with tankers that have the capacity of holding 2 million barrels of oil.

http://www.redorbit.com/news/science/353428/venezuela_the_new_saudi_arabia_an_industrialinfocom_news_alert/

Well ... hubby and I are going to walk Brandi along the Fraser River.  It is windy out today but ... not too cold.  She does not seem herself today.

 ::MonkeyNoNo::

Youngest son and wife took Brandi on their runs over the weekend while they were staying at our home doggy sitting.  These two forget that Brandi is fifteen years old and ... that is old in doggy years.  I told son this morning that walking Brandi ... who was originally his pet ... is where it is at from now on.

Later Monkeys

Janet
1:30 PM PT

I am back for a short time.  My longtime neighbour/friend went into Walmart and left lights on.  Your guessed it ... her battery is dead.  Hubby has gone into town to give her a "jump start".

Anyways ... I posted the following this morning but ... there was no response.  I think it is huge but ...

 ::MonkeyWaa::

Story of my life.

Janet

++++



++++++

It's very simple and Silvetti,Schaefer,as well as Trahan know it!Period.Kyle opened his mouth......What to do now?It's very evident to me in regards to the amount of distractions that are continued here in the forum.They must ATTEMPT(which isn't working)to minimize,as well as rationalize Kyle's word's.Problem is!None of these people turned any information over to the proper authorities.......EXPLAIN THAT LEGALLYLEX????????????

Thank you Keepthefaith.

It is as though those who are continually upholding the entire crew of the Persistence and ... disregarding Kyle Kingman's own words that claim the contrary ... the lie will prevail.

I cannot comprehend why the FBI is not actively investigating the happenings encompassing the events all the way from the discovery of the trap to the recovery of its contents.  After all ... Natalee Holloway is an American citizen and ... if fellow American citizens are abetting the Arubans in the coverup that is preventing justice from prevailing ....

 ::MonkeyNoNo::

Janet

+++++

A lie repeated often enough it becomes the truth."
MAO Zedong

Hi everyone!   ::MonkeyDance::

It's great to see Cageman here!   ::MonkeyCool::

I don't know what to say about legallylex's post that was brought over.  I guess what she didn't say....bothers me as much as what she did say.  She didn't say anything that makes me believe we are on the wrong track here.  Name calling doesn't cut it.    

 ::MonkeyNoNo::

When Kyle Kingman ongoing professional relationship with John Silvetti is considered ... it is as those he is being compensated not to further complicate the "Natalee's Freebirds" situation by going to the FBI or Beth Holloway and reveal all.

I contend if Kyle Kingman has lied in all those posts ... legal action for defamation by John Silvetti and Louis Schaefer would be where it was at.

Janet

+++++

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle: Schafer is sue crazy.

I guess what i want to know is,why are people who think that SM is about Slandering and conspiracy theories,continuing to patronize this forum??What are you here for?Silvetti,Schaefer,Trahan and Kyle are all BIG BOYS.I think more than anything they understand the LEGAL ramifications of continuing to SPEAK about the happenings of the cage/trap contents.Has Silvetti ,Schaefer,Trahan,and or Kyle VOLUNTARILY sat down with the FBI???


KEEPTHEFAITH

That's all the distractor's can do.It is the one thing you can count on around here.They have NOTHING ELSE!NADA...If you have a problem with Kyle's words talk to him! ::MonkeyTongue::

Hi Texasmom.

Hey ... do you pass those exams?

Did you notice that John Silvetti's sister upheld the entire crew of Persistence.  I assume that would be Kyle Kingman too ... something akin to Hotshot sentiments.

 ::MonkeyConfused::

Janet

++++++

Hotshot
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
« Reply #202 on: December 04, 2008, 03:07:37 AM »

... You guys are going to look really silly in the end for downing the people like silvetti, and Kyle, and CAPS.  There must be more to do with your time then pick on the ones who actually go out of their way to help.  I do not see anyone here going out there to actually help as these people did ...

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4186.msg565899#msg565899

It's debatable whether or not Louis Schaefer paid for anything until this Class Action Lawsuit is settled.

Would seem to me that these hapless stockholders were the ones who paid.

I am sure in light of his and other members of management's actions, all stockholders will be fully reimbursed for any losses they suffered as a result of these illegal business activities?

Otherwise, it's just plain fraud and should be and may yet be criminal.

Well ... Sir Lancelot is back from his rescue mission and ... we are off for that walk with Brandi.

Magnolia ... I am about to put on that sweater you knitted for me lickity split.  It is so warm and cozy.

Janet

We have been discussing the cage/trap and the removal of it's contents as well as the dual purpose
of the search and Kyle's words posted at Natalee's Freebirds in some form since Thanksgiving.
If this were not true, I think that Schaefer, Silvetti, and Kyle and company would have taken
legal action already instead of calling the monkeys ignorant and making idle threats.
They know it is all true. IMO

Stay warm Janet and don't walk Brandi too far.  She needs to recoup from her weekend run.

Hi Janet,
Thanks for asking!  I haven't heard yet on my exams, the conference went on through the end of last week; so it will take some time for the information to be available for my viewing.  I am checking everyday.   ::MonkeyWink:: 

Actually the response received from the sister of John Silvetti and the (probable, I'm not positive) mother of another crew member is very much what I would expect.  After all, IIRC she was the voice for her brother regarding a lot of things during the search including the fundraising at the very end of the mission. 

Except that some/probably many she considers "ignorant" donated to the cause.   ::MonkeyNoNo:: 

IMO, I agree.   ::MonkeyCool::

 ::MonkeyDance:: HOW YA LIKE THEM APPLES LEGALLYLEX  ::MonkeyDance::

I can't prove it, but I tend to believe what I was told about some "island hopping" being done by some on board the Persistence was true.  At the time I couldn't think of a good reason for it, but now....the reason is clear.  If it is true, the person that told me is not the only one that knows it; so it's only a matter of time for the truth to come out about it.  JMO

Sorry but I don't for a minute believe that Debbie from BFN forwarded the info.  If she did she got it from here (I have seen her on EVERYTIME we have discussed this), copied and gathered the info and gave it to Robin.  Robin is too cozy with her BNH buddies for my liking.  THIS IS JUST M.O. ONLY   

Oh, and while I am at it what happened to the ship was going back right away.  I notice the only mention is they would LIKE to go back in the future. 

And just when is it a crime to investigate anyone over the internet with information that is out in the open for all to see?

JMO

 ::MonkeyCool::

Well I for one would LOVE to see this all come out in civil court.

John Silvetti
Louis Schaefer
Tim Trahan
et al

Vs.

Kyle Kingman


I would GLADLY see to it that access is provided to plaintiff's attorney's with a subpoena for any/all original posts by Kyle Kingman (including IP addresses.........hmmmmm, wonder what they'll make of the one he used signed in from Dallas last summer?) detailing his words.

I would dearly love to read transcripts of depo's, given under oath, by all of the above named persons about activities transpiring between May 2007 and April 2008.

With special emphasis, of course, on December 24, 2007 - February 22, 2008.

And OF COURSE all supporting log information, ROV footage, bank account information, meeting minutes and the like.

So I would like to take this opportunity to thank Debbie very much for her diligence in the copy/paste regimen she has conducted of late.

I,for one,would be the first monkey to donate to a fund that would finance Silvetti,Schaefer,Trahan,as well as Kyle kingmans stay,at the hotel of choice in QUANTICO,VA,for VOLUNTARY questioning in regards to the happenings surrounding the cage/trap contents!Think they'll bite??FREE TRIP TO QUANTICO....... ::MonkeyWink::

FREE TRIP TO QUANTICO,VA FOR SILVETTI,SCHAEFER,TRAHAN AND KINGMAN...

JUST ASK FOR DETAILS LEGALLYLEX.... ::MonkeyWink::

Lots of good stuff posted today information-wise, guys.  Great work! 

 ::MonkeyDance::    ::MonkeyDance::    ::MonkeyDance::    ::MonkeyDance::

Heading out for a bit again soon, but will be back to work in a couple of hours.

Janet - I thought the removal of the detailed job duties was very interesting - copied it from your first post as I was catching up!

Jen - You have been busy!  ::MonkeyWink::

None - Great questions! I love your perspective and learn from it.

San - Your insight helps me every time.  I'm always glad when you weigh in!

KTF - You continue to amaze me more every day!  Somebody make that monkey a skydiving, banana throwing avatar!!

I'm so very grateful for all of you that post here, even the dissenters, you too are helping whether you mean to or not!

Justice for Natalee Holloway!  We will not go away.

I grabbed this yesterday, I hope Red doesn't mind my re-posting it...I think it most of it may be even more appropriate today than when he originally posted it:

Oh, TM!  That qualifies as a fascinating statement!  Thank you.

http://www.amigoe.com/artman/publish/artikel_53371.php

Google translation:

Aruban politicians divided on growth PVV
March 2, 2009, 14:58 (GMT -04:00)

  Email this article
  Print this article
  
  
ORANGE CITY - The Party for Freedom in the latest poll by Maurice de Hond for the first time as largest party in the Netherlands reached. If elections are held, then the party of Geert Wilders get 27 seats. The reactions of Aruban politicians ranging from alarmed to wait and see.

According Peil.nl, the Examination for the Maurice de Hond poll design and publish, the PVV with no less than twelve seats since the turn of the year. The CDA fell to 26 seats, Labor would be 21 seats and VVD seventeen. D66 is the only other climber with nineteen seats, their highest poll in twelve years.

The risk of a possible participation of the PVV to the next cabinet will be ever greater. In Aruba is not all of them awake. Late group of ruling Ady Thijsen MEP do not know too much value to attach to the poll itself. "One time is one for the next time another." It stresses that the emergence of the PVV an indication of a reality that the traditional parties in the Netherlands is not fully under eyes to see. The PVV is a party with radical views which apparently a lot of Dutch support. The big traditional parties have not yet found an appropriate response. Us not as much as we all good to try to go. When Hero Brinkman came to Aruba, we had no problem in. It was the Dutch delegation that he eventually wegstuurde. "
Thijsen is not worried about any political consequences for Aruba, if the PVV to power. "First, I will not speculate, but we are a mature partner in the Kingdom and have a right to speak. Should the kingdom connection steps ever dealt with, then that decision to us and nobody else. In addition, in the Netherlands probably not wait for half Indonesia or Suriname. "

Mike Eman of the AVP, the rise of the PVV as a worrying development. "The position of Wilders and the PVV in respect of Aruba and the Antilles is clear. Their approach is too ad hoc to good solutions. "The leader of the Green Party calls for a common, constructive approach, with common objectives which all partners are served. Only then, according to Eman, the principal offered the position of Wilders. "Furthermore, the more moderate politicians from the Netherlands to be heard. They would become more actively invest in the Kingdom. "The party was also aware that the next European elections are a good time for a signal to and noted CDA candidate Mito Croes and published his thesis as the main reinforcement and of the Kingdom.

Leader Rudy Lampe of RED takes away from it to his opinions and xenophobic hate "nature of the PVV. It also feels that the position of that party in respect of Aruba and the 'hostile' attitude towards the MEP Netherlands will only strengthen each other, which resulted in Aruba on a ramkoers' to independence will come. If the PVV actually in the next Dutch government than the RED Lampe according to 'the democratic decision of the Dutch people respect, but also all continue to make the links within the Kingdom to maintain.

Monica Kock of the MPA is far too premature to comment. "This is a snapshot. Last year it was still quite different and the election is only two years. "
Dutch  > English  swapTranslate  
  

Thank You for all you do LifeSong!In my heart,i truly belive,in time,the TRUTH will be revealed and i think many are not gonna like what they see or hear what occured,even by some of their own!

                                     JUSTICE FOR NATALEE HOLLOWAY

LIFESONG

"KTF - You continue to amaze me more every day!  Somebody make that monkey a skydiving, banana throwing avatar!!"


 ::MonkeyDance:: ::cartwheel:: ::MonkeyDance:: ::cartwheel::

http://www.amigoe.com/artman/publish/artikel_53369.php

Google translation:

Aruba
RED: Many Ex-Lago staff suffer Stanford
March 2, 2009, 14:56 (GMT -04:00)

ORANGE CITY - Between 150 and 200 former employees of the Lago refinery which shut its doors in 1985, have money in the billions of fraud suspect Stanford bank paid. It also says that claims RED information available to the Stanford Group amounts to 100,000 florin has accepted, in breach of the law.

The Central Bank said earlier no indication that the Aruban representative Stanford illegal acted. However, the Bank is concerned about the amount of deposits and past this with the management of Stanford Aruba spoken. In those talks Stanford insured that no amounts under the barrel florin were accepted.
RED denies this is based on information that she has old-Lago staff. That would after the closure of the refinery in their pension and savings located in Stanford. They now fear that the money they can whistle, so RED.
The Aruban establishment of Stanford is not supervised by the Central Bank because the bank is not official, but a representation. The bank is located on Antigua. There is no supervision because there are no amounts to 100,000 florin accepted. Was that the case, it was supervised by the Central Bank legally required.
Victims have been in half lawyers registered to practice together to try to get investment back. Earlier it was already known that HBN Law represents a group of customers to Aruba, Curacao and Bonaire. How many victims in total, is still unclear. It is also not known what amount they are damaged. According to MEP, the politicians for more than 30 million florin, but to inquire shows that they do not have concrete data.

I do not know how accurate this source is...but, I have often wondered if there is such a thing as "Aruban" waters:

Although the island now has control over its own internal affairs, it is still considered part of the Kingdom of the Netherlands and prostitution is legal.  The Netherlands retains control of Aruba's waters within the three-mile limit of international law.  This is under the jurisdiction of a contingent of Royal Dutch Marines stationed on the island.

http://www.tripadvisor.com/Travel-g147247-c1188/Aruba:Caribbean:An.Overview.Of.Aruba.html

Anna- you raise a key point, Shaefer did pay for the voyage via Superior, not from his pocket although some would call it one and the same - when you have stockholders you are spending their investment as well.

The salient point I'd like to make is that Kyle's postings are not what made me question motives and clear intent, long before Kyle's posts were shared  I found Superior's commitment odd in that the cost of such a search using the sophisticated equipment would logically be very expensive?? I just did not believe that this was only for the search for Natalee, it didn't make sense from a corporate perspective in current climates since 2000.

As for what's been revealed here, some do have theories yes but the data that's been posted here recently is all public record (with the exception of Kyle's posts) and even without Kyle's postings, I personally would have had significant questions post reading the class action suit. I have been asking questions, trying to make some sense of what Superior was seeking as benefit from this.

That suit reflects very poorly on Superior, someone should be asking questions as a result and obviously the class action suit's allegations will require Superior/Shaefer/Memis answer.

good find, thank you Buckeye.

I never understood why they were able to search directly in Aruba's waters when I think it was Tim who said if Aruba would not let them in their waters they would just go around through Venezuela.  Now I could not understand how Venezuela would allow them to come in their territory and not Aruba.  Originally they said they would be searching out in international waters.  What happened that allowed them to be in Aruba's waters and not in International waters as originally told to us.  It had to be a deal with Aruba beforehand or they would not have docked in Aruba and stayed there off and on.  So someone talked ahead of time and deals had to have been made before that ship ever left. JMO

I agree -- good point!

None, I felt much the same as you did.  When it was just for a couple of weeks, well, OK maybe.  But when it drug out for four months, something was just not right.  The whole crew was able to put their lives on hold for that length of time?  Without pay? 

Yet all the funding was spent on the mapping only leaving none for actually looking into any of the targets except for one.  Donations being sought while they were obviously packing for home.

It was all very odd. 

texasmom ... please expand.  I do not get your drift.

Thanks

Janet

In terms of "Island hopping" are we strickly talking the Netherland antilles;Aruba,Bonaire,as well as Curacao?All major hubs for OIL.I've also read were they've talked about a pipeline line up through all the caribbean islands and potentially up to Florida....FWIW

(http://wwwimage.cbsnews.com/images/2003/06/26/image560580x.jpg)
oh realllllyyyyy?

BIG BIRD AND KERMIT.....MUPPETS AND SESAME STREET ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyDance::

Kermit.You get a chance to peruse that link of pdvsa and all the wonderful graphs?

Kermit  ::MonkeyHaHa::

(http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/muppet/images/b/b0/Shot.cuttmspitch.jpg)
I wonder what CBS Executives deposition would say?

Kyle:  "I've talked with Peter Shouten numerous times back in February. He hasn't seen anything but knows about the blue fabrics. DeVries and Endemol was interested in purchasing the ROV footage and I was working between them, ABC, and CBS to strike a deal."

Where is it again?

kermit  ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyHaHa::

Kermit, what happened with ABC and CBS and Peter DV?  Nothing ever became of that deal and I wonder why they didn't jump on it.  Seems Mos & ALE did a shakedown on the Persistence and then the Persistence tried to shake down not one but 3 different TV stations/crime reporter.

I'll bring it forward!

(http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/muppet/images/9/90/Celeb.koppel.jpg)
I wonder what Ted Koppel would say?

TED KOPPEL: You went to Aruba with a million dollars and when it came to investigating the trap/cage you did VAT?

Kyle stated: "John is not a believer in the trap. He took ALE's word as gospel that it wasn't case related, yet never studied the videos or bothered to inquire further. He had plans on doing business with Aruba and in S. America and he didn't want to hurt any feelings by talks hinting at lack of complete trust and friendship."

TED KOPPEL: VAT? VAT YOU SAY? You trusted the ARUBANS? The ones who turned blood into chocolate?

Very good article Kermit.Let me know what you think of it when your done!TIA.I'll bring forward a picture LifeSong brought over from the article!

 ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::cartwheel::

Nice picture of who's playing close to Aruba...

There were legal issues.

On December 5, 2007 I have a receipt for a donation for Natalee to Tx EQ..  Does anyone remember why we were asked to contribute then?  Was this for the search or for something else?

Oh yes I did see that. Ain't it cozy. OIL baby OIL.

I guess I am dense but what kind of "legal" issues could there have been?  They owned all the photos, had all the records/logs of that trip so what legally prevented it?  Not reporting all this to FBI?

"KNOWS ABOUT THE BLUE FABRICS!"

Kermit -

Do you trust the word of Art Wood?
I always found him to be pretty straight forward...
Below are just some misc. excerpts...

Art Wood: "Paulus’ computer holds the key to this case. In the first week of June Michael Dompig, Chief Dompig's son told Dave Holloway that Paulus borrowed a friends boat on the day Natalee disappeared. …In Joran’s confession he says that Natalee was shaking and shivering before she died…then we find out that he called a friend to come and help him. Guess what Kimberly? I think that friend was his father Paulus van der Sloot.

"...PVDS didn’t drive the boat, all he did was call a friend and get rid of the body…and listen, here it is…its right here. …When the aruban police force seized his computer and examined the hard drive they found that on the day Natalee disappeared Paulus Van der Sloot visited some websites looking at the effects of alcohol and drugs on a body. That’s a bombshell!"

Art Wood: (About casino tape) "The person in that tape has not been identified. However it looks like Paulus. I was told that it is a cook at the salt and pepper cafe."

ART WOOD: The Sloots were probably tipped-off when the family group stopped at the Noord Police Station to wait for Charles Croes, Alberto Groeneveld and Claudio Eldridge to return from the VDS residence.

I just know that the media industry is highly sensitive about legal issues.
Dateline had a contractual agreement with Louis Schafer didn't he?

What reason would Art Wood have to lie?
Probably none.

Reply #494 on: February 26, 2008, 08:55:26 PM »
Bad news on the search.  Persistence has completed the underwater survey/grid.  Have identified 100+ objects and trying to narrow the list.  However, they are totally out of money.  If they can't come up with donations within a week or 10 days they will have to go home.
Dave Holloway has been talking to various officials to help chip in.

Without contributions Persistence is coming home.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2641.480

I'm not sure.  I don't see a thread from Nov/Dec 2007 here for donations.  I'll check BFN.

Kyle said: "Dave was involved with the search until the 30th of Dec from an information-only level. I don't know if he knows anything about the blue denim-like fabric and have no reason to suspect that he does. I would say he knows as much as Beth, perhaps slightly more. It's time Beth knows what the truth is about that trap"

March 1 - RV Persistence announced it is leaving Aruba http://blogsfornatalee.com/forum/index.php?topic=8398.0
March 3 - John meets with Caps
March 3 - Kyle learns that the screenshots he sent to the FBI - the FBI sent to Dave and Dave's wife, Robin posted them on the internet.
March 3 - LegalLEx posts at BFN: "I think an immediate agenda many of us have taken on is... to continue... trying to find significant funding/donations... to finish the search... at least of those 150 (or so) targets that may yield Natalee and... maybe... evidence.
<snip>
Since John does not deal with the financing portion, (TES and Louis do),

PetroFalcon cancels Cardon III farmin

By OGJ editors
HOUSTON, Jan. 7 -- Vinccler Oil & Gas, the wholly owned subsidiary of PetroFalcon Corp., has terminated an agreement to acquire from Chevron Corp. a 30% working interest in the offshore Cardon III Block natural gas license in the Gulf of Venezuela. According to the terms of the agreement, Chevron will reimburse all amounts paid by Vinccler plus interest.

PetroFalcon Pres. and Chief Executive Officer Bill Gumma said, "We are opting out of the Chevron exploration well in the Gulf of Venezuela due to the tightening global capital markets and the uncertain oil and natural gas price environment. After Chevron returns our share of past Cardon III expenses with interest, we will have more than $33 million in cash, no debt, and no expected cash calls from Baripetrol or PetroCumarebo for 2009 capital expenditures."


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 a piece of blue tarp was found about 15-20ft outside of the trap. Inside the trap underneath a small berm of sand (which was in the shape of a torso with proper proportions) we found a blue denim-like fabric which appears from the ROV video to be denim with the right approximate proportions to be her skirt. The fabric appears to be a denim skirtKyle said.

Debbie at BFN posted the need for donations on December 5, 2007

Kermie,
I am not trying to be off base here...
But I have stated my opinions on the possibility that Jossy could be playing both sides of the fence...
He has substantial monetary interest(s) on that island, IMO, and probably seeks to protect them...
Is it off based, in your opinion, to be cautious of this man? Just curious of your opinion...
My best analogy for Jossy comes from an old saying, "Dogs do not shit where they eat."
BUCKSHOT

Newest member of the GM crew....Iris44.... ::MonkeyDance::

Kyle said This is how the Dateline episode happened:
Dateline (Tim Uelinger) had an agreement with Tim Miller to 'do a story to tell about and help promote TES and give TM recognition, and perhaps a 10 minute side-line story on Natalee along with 11 other missing persons. Dateline tagged along with TM for a while pre-NH search. They (TM and Dateline) came on the Persistence between 15-Dec and 30-Dec. I found the trap on 1:45am Christmas morning. I got the OK to begin our ROV dive series for the 29th, so I made it our first dive. We got visual of the fish trap and that it was suspicious. Basically, the fish trap door was open and there appeared to be a skull and torso-shape in sand on the door inside the trap Reviewing the 29-Dec video I noticed the torso shape in sand had a 90 degree angle and that the sand was supported from falling through the bottom of the trap, which was slightly excavated by currents. I proportioned out the distance from the top of the head, to shoulder, to that 90 degree angle and it was a match to Natalee's photo of her standing -head, to shoulder, to the end of her denim skirt. I showed TM the proportional match and the possibility of a skirt under the sand and he said he's going to tell the parents. I said definitely not until we sample the trap and get results. He made the call to Dave and Beth independently.


(http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/1035/datelineskullnl9.jpg)

Not Kermit but I for one still wants to know why Jossy's son Eduador was on that ship the whole time (according to jossy to Hotshot) and Jossy was working with Caps on witnesses for the pond.  Jossy was in both areas of interest.  So which is it ocean or pond?

I didn't think you were trying to be off base in your thinking at all Buckshot. You've always proved to be insightful. And what you say has merit.

thanks Klaas, wonder why they were asking for money NOW back in December when they had just started the search.  I thought Schafer was paying for it at that point?

She will fit right in!!! ::MonkeyHaHa::

Did they "sample" the trap or is that when it was decided to call in Mos and gang?

Joran: "She's in the ocean"

CAPS: "tennis shoe and remains" POND
         "she's in the cemtary"
         she's cut up and her body parts are spread around
         she is at the MOKO apts.
         she is at the whitehouse apts
         I never said MOKO kermit I said Montanja

TED KOPPEL: VAT A MINUTE! You got a million dollars after selling off your stocks and resigning from your company and switching assets to another company of yours and then you asked for donations and then you came home after mapping for oil in Aruba and after trying to "strike deals" to sell the ROV images of the cage/trap that you allowed ONLY ARUBA DIVERS to collect evidence and you denied the family and FBI any of that information? Is that correct Mister Peahead?

(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b258/texasmom55/Greetings/churchlady.jpg)

 ::MonkeyHaHa::

On the morning of the 30th we met on board the Persistence with Hans Mos, Richardson, and the rest of the police brass and dive division. I showed them all the 29th dive video and they agreed that it was very suspicion and looked promising. Later that day 30-Dec we conducted the dive with the Aruban divers along with our own Tim Trahan. We discussed ahead of time 1 thumb up means positively human remains, 2 thumbs up... something conclusively identifying Natalee. When Tim T. gives one thumb down, he said that it was inconclusive. He couldn't tell by his own admission.

 ::MonkeyLaugh:: ::MonkeyLaugh:: ::MonkeyLaugh::

That would be Pea Bean to you, Mr. Koppel! ::MonkeyHaHa::

 ::MonkeyHaHa:: I will tell you it has been extrodinary to be able to post without people distracting people.It will happen over there unless the Headmaster has the CULT marching in step. ::MonkeyCool::

07-Jan we dove on the trap with Aruban divers and our ROV recording the dive. They found the piece of blue tarp and blue denim-like fabric, and other things I can't identify.

You tryin to get me fired up so late at night Kermit! ::MonkeyHaHa::

What other things?  Didn't John Silvetti say there were only plastic bags in the trap?


 ::MonkeyNoNo::

Posted by BUCKSHOT: on: February 21, 2009, 05:47:48 PM

J2K administer date-rape drug...
Sexual (and physical) assault of Natalee occurs...
Natalee expires at hands of J2K (and others?)...
JVDS (2K) panic and call PVDS...
PVDS contacts JanVDS...
JanVDS advises / obstructs / stalls / abets for PVDS...
Outside law enforcement agencies are kept out of Aruba...
The elite of the island (illegal money schemes/activities) band together...
Tourism Board (synonymous with ALE) protects enabling interests...
Disinformants / Diversions employed by Aruba...
Persistence and Aruban Govt strike a (brokered) deal...
"Map in our waters" in exchange for "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" near trap...
Crew members / owners cash in...Kyle almost ruins it for them...
Aruba owns and possesses the final piece of evidence...
They will continue to Lie and Deny to the End...

Am I close??   ::MonkeyWink::

One lingering question for me, though:
Why would they allow a body to knowingly sit in their waters for so long. Instead of waiting from summer2005 until late2007/early 2008, why would they not have dove and recovered sooner, and better concealed from scrutiny?

Awe Mainta's front page for tomorrow says that Maruja Forero has died.  She was on the Staff at Diario.  No details yet, the edition is not out there to download yet.

http://www.diarioaruba.com/diabierna/staff/

COLABORADOR
Maruja Forero

Borrowed from Janet...

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle:  I get done in the survey room backing up the ROV dive and head to the back deck to talk to the Polis divers and see what they sampled and see the Polis boat way in the distance heading away fast. John doesn't seem concerned at all, but I am very dissapointed, concerned, and burning inside because I have a feeling that I/we will never know what they took from the trap. That evening I talked to John asking when we plan on recovering the trap. Previously this was part of the talks and plan, but this time he doesn't seem concerned about ever looking into the trap further. After John verbally BASHED me about the trap for what I said to Tim Miller about the sand body-form and that I believed her skirt was under the sand, John pretty much committed himself to the belief the trap wasn't what we were after. This shocked me because it was exactly what we were looking for- a fish trap lost at sea with human remains.
Kyle: I know Tim believed me and was convinced 100% which is why he went and told Dave that we found Natalee on Dec 29th. John stood back and waited and worked with the Aruban Polis to arrange the next dive -Dec 30th's which was the visual-only dive.  John told me then he didn't want to hear me ever mention the trap again. Of course this didn't set well with me

Says it all for me...

we??
I thought Kyle said aruba divers came in their own boat, dove from it, and returned to it w/o involving the crew of persistence and persistence divers during the collected of evidence by aruba divers on 7 Jan.....?

Blue Moon

Janet made this observation, a while back, which is definitely a plausible scenario:

Eduardo is there from beginning to end!What is he watching over,and or protecting?

Until the Jossy/Silvetti/CAPS' connection ... I never doubted the Mansurs in regards to their  dedication to expose the corrupt investigation that was preventing justice from prevailing for Natalee Holloway.

Could it have been that the Mansurs jumped on the Aruban bandwagon to gain points with the "powers that be" in regard to the legal problems encompassing Luis Mansur.  Think about it.  The Aruban "powers that be" knew that Jossy Mansur and Eduardo Mansur were viewed in the media as supporters of the family of Natalee Holloway in their quest for justice.  In other words ... did Jossy Mansur allowed himself to be used by the "powers that be" to give the pond witness distraction credibility?
 
My response about Jossy/Eduardo...

Very possible... He lended the most credibility... Could have been the perfect mole...
Others toted around on national media to carry the agenda were too transparent...
Ruben "MySpace" Trappenburg, Arlene "The Aruban Legal Guru" Schippers, Tickle-Me-Tito...
Good 'ole Jossy has (family) businesses (money) to protect in Aruba...
Therefore, protection of his interests likely superceded shame to the island and justice for the family...
My opinion, again, dogs do not shit where they eat...An old, but true, adage...

BUCKSHOT

My thought would be that in their arrogant ignorance.....they never believed remains could ever be found or identified....As time went on...there became more and more comfortable and arrogant...moo

KARIN JANSSEN KEPT FBI OUT OF INVESTIGATION

DAVE HOLLOWAY

DAVE: One of the things I really had a concern with was the FBI was contacted and the FBI wanted to come to the island. The FBI wanted to get involved due to the fact that we had an American citizen missing on their island. I recently found out that decision was made by the prosecutor and the police department to not allow the FBI to become involved as they should. In fact they sent a dive team up approximately a week later and they ended up going home. They didn't even step foot in the ocean.

Exactly, remember caps says he dove there and the trap is still there.

Possible.

I guess thats why they were so adament about:
(1) Radar would have seen any boat out in the water that evening (until it was conveniently determined to not be working)..
(2) Any object placed out in the water will just float back to shore.
To prevent a search of the ocean, a place they (perhaps) already wknew her remains could be located.
Also, kinda "hinky" how they were able to get so close to the cage on their first set of dive...

3/3/2009 Awe Mainta Page 3

http://awemainta.com/home/

(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b258/texasmom55/Misc%20News%205/03032009AweMaintaPg3.jpg)

Papiamentu translation:

world cultural owing to lose one great exponente, maruja forero yesterday owing to enter the news tristo cu one lady of cultura, maruja forero owing to bay let we after of one enfermedad largo. is conoci cu for enough time maruja forero was bad y owing to happen one season largo in hospital y owing to dicidi of happen his ultimo dianan at his cas at dakota. maruja forero was one colombiano cu owing to adopta aruba because; his island y owing to know of engrandece we cultura in several territory. the had his notanan lieterario, the was envolvi in world of theatre y musica also. in the ultimo here have to remarca cu the had his are musical cu owing to deleita several of we at home of cultura, but also owing to know of take away esnan close at kia one some of his gladness musical, mustrando so his desire of comparti cu everybody, without see that they're one some of musica y gladness. assure maruja forero will let one bashi big close much of we at aruba, specialmente in the world cultural y his several amigonan. cu maruja sosega at paz y much forza at family y amigonan.

The Vision was extrordinary....... ::MonkeyLaugh::

I'm calling it a night.  Kermit bought up some very interesting comments.  This all just blows my mind.  the question is very simple "Were there human remains in that trap (as Kyle reported to the Freebirds) and IF there were who did they belong to.  If they belonged to Natalee how much money was paid out and to whom to stop this search in it's tracks (after the ocean had been mapped) and sent them running home without what they went for?

I must admit I don't know if that were human remains (Kyle said it was and Tim Miller was almost 99% sure) but it sure did look like it.  Something very wrong and evil occurred on that trip and I for one firmly believes the family should have ALL the details NOW.

Exactly...tell a lie enough times by enough people and the "lie" becomes "truth".
And what better time to strike a deal with the persistence when they are on site with the proper equipment needed to discover the cage. Seems to me the arubans knew about where the cage was, but didn't have the resources to id the exact location or need to recover until the persistence seach became a "go" project. Combine aruba needs for ocean floor mapping and apparent willingness by the American  oil boys.....
Either the persistence does the mapping under the ruse of searching for Natalee..and completes that with no discovery, then runs out of money and ends the search;
or, they find human remains (Natalee?) but have to cover it up so they can continue the mapping...
Either way..something is 'hinky'....

Goodnight BlueMoon!

Am I the only one that does not understand what Kermit posted? I read it as Kermit is saying Kyle said (quoted by Kermit) that there were persistence divers along with the aruba divers on 7 Jan...doesn't this go against what has been posted before (aruba divers/boat/only doing the 7 Jan dive that collected evidence in the cage)??

Hi guys!!

I had a very special request from a very special monkey (Magnolia) for an avatar to a very special monkey (KeepThe Faith).

So I'm making a special delivery!    ::MonkeyWink::

One Skydiving Monkey delivered:     ::MonkeyHaHa::

(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c100/crazybabyborgs/originals/Keep-The-Faith.gif)
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c100/crazybabyborgs/originals/Keep-The-Faith.gif

Hope you like it, KeepTheFaith, but if not, I'll be happy to find something different for you. Magnolia asked me to deliver it here.

(Please forgive the Off Topic.)

That is a tough one BillB!Was he referencing the Aruban divers as we?I would interpret it as the ROV,as well as the Arubans "WE".JMOO..

Love it!Skydiving Monkey,throwin Bananas,while descending on the island of EVIL.....

 ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyDance::

So, would you like me to get Klaas to get it up and going for you?? I'll work on the bananas!  ::MonkeyWink::

Tough is right...that's what caught my attention...I don't recall this being posted before...hence my question??
I just may be out of whack though...
I'm sure there are many more pics and the actual video that could clear up a lot...if we every get to see them...
I'd love to see that civil suit mentioned btwn silvetti/kyle.....wouldn't that be neat!!

That would be much Appreciated!Thank You Magnolia and CBB! ::MonkeyWink::

If any American did dive,and is aware of that being human remains beyond a shadow of a doubt!How awful is that?

I thought it was time you quit going naked, KTF.  I think he is a cute monkey!
Thank you CBB.

I thought it was against the SM T.O.S. to post personal pictures of other posters! ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyDance::

Well, he is a handsome and happy devil.  Just look at his goggles and grin.  ::MonkeyHaHa::

::MonkeyHaHa:: Aruba hasn't seen a crazy,banana-throwin monkey like this before!This Monkey also is an Olympic swimmer,so catch me if you can....

Where'd everybody go? ::MonkeyEek::

You're looking mighty handsome tonight  ::MonkeyHaHa::

Much appreciated Klaas!I think this Monkey could make an Episode of Monkey Makeover! ::MonkeyHaHa::

                               JUSTICE FOR NATALEE HOLLOWAY

                                   GOODNIGHT AND GODBLESS

                                            KEEPTHEFAITH


P.S. RESEARCH CONTINUES TOMORROW PERSISTENCE........ ::MonkeyTongue::

I love the avi, it looks great! 

I've been off digging for long ago conversations to refresh my memory.   ::MonkeyWink::

the statement was... btw. they were leaving the island on and off, I did ask...going where do you think?  Nothing else said about it.  A lot of things were being discussed in this conversation so my question may have been missed, or not...I don't know.

Goodnight KTF!   ::MonkeyCool::

As promised: Armed and Ready!!   ::MonkeyWink::

(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c100/crazybabyborgs/originals/KEEPTHE-FAITH.gif)
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c100/crazybabyborgs/originals/KEEPTHE-FAITH.gif

Great work CBB!!!!   ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyCool::

Janet,
Sorry it took me so long to respond, I was not ignoring your question.  I really don't know more than that.  I spent some time refreshing my memory of the conversation tonight and this is what was said...btw. they were leaving the island on and off, I did ask...going where do you think?  Nothing else was said about it.  A lot of things were being discussed in this conversation so my question may have been missed, or not...I don't know.

Goodnight everyone!   ::MonkeyCool::

You are not the only one bothered by this.

John Silvetti also said there were "several" dives on that target (presumably that target, because nothing else fits all the criteria he wrote about)

Special Notice:
By John Silvetti-

The original search area surveyed by the R/V Persistence was selected based on numerous pieces of information provided by Dave Holloway, Tim Miller, investigations, interrogations, depositions and other information from local authorities. After compiling and reviewing the information, the search area was selected by Louis Schaefer and John Silvetti. Upon completion of the sonar runs in this area, 65 ROV dives were performed by Offshore Innovative Solutions (OIS) on targets identified by sonar. Divers from the Aruban Police Diving Division and Underwater Expeditions made several dives and retrieved samples which were delivered for analysis. Several targets in this first survey grid yet remain to be investigated by ROV which will occur in approximately one week when ROV dive operations recommence.

Selection of the next area, the “Extended Search Area”, was based on one single piece of information, a reported confession by one of the three suspects. This confession, as relayed to the survey team, has some credence. It involves the same type of disposal scenario, but better defines the search area. This information in combination with the weather patterns observed by the survey team since our arrival on December 15th left only one boundary to define. The team needed to observe the island from offshore on a small vessel at night to determine this boundary. Sounds easy….huh?
http://nholloway.blogspot.com/

Good Morning Monkeys!  It is becoming clearer each day -- the timeline really reveals a lot!  ::MonkeyCool::

Oh shoot.  Now Lou will be posting in the hidey holes that Kermit is claiming to be Ted Koppel. 

(http://www.clipartof.com/images/emoticons/xsmall2/1231_hysterically_laughing.gif)

AND Kyle stated that the FBI stated that there were HUMAN REMAINS  in the trap. 

http://www.modbee.com/crime/story/617465.html

Posted on Tue, Mar. 03, 2009
Break in Levy case pleases students
By Emilie Raguso
eraguso@modbee.com
last updated: March 02, 2009 10:41:36 PM

Atlanta criminal justice college students who spent the past year delving into the death of Chandra Levy said they're surprised and excited about last month's break in the case.

"I was half-asleep when I got the call," said Naomi Barkley, 49, of Atlanta. "I was like, 'Are you kidding?' That was the last thing I was thinking about, that they were going to make an arrest. The rest of the day, I was in shock. I think all of us were."

Barkley, a senior at Bauder College in Atlanta, is a member of a college club in Georgia that's devoted to investigating cold cases. In 2008, the group focused on the death of Chandra Levy and the disappearance of Natalee Holloway, a high school student from Alabama who vanished during a graduation trip in Aruba. In December, the group turned over its findings to the agencies working on the cases.

A 24-year-old former Bureau of Prisons intern from Modesto, Levy was last seen April 30, 2001. Her remains were found in Washington's Rock Creek Park a year later.

On Feb. 20, Police Chief Cathy Lanier told Levy's parents in Modesto that an arrest warrant was imminent. Investigators last week flew to California. Ingmar A. Guandique, 27, an illegal immigrant from El Salvador known to be of interest to investigators in the Levy case, is in the federal penitentiary at Victorville.

The college club has 100 to 150 members on four campuses, according to director Sheryl McCollum, who started the Cold Case Investigative Research Institute in 2005. She also runs the Cold Case Crime Analysis Squad for the Pine Lake Police Department in Georgia.


'Always working on it'

McCollum's students previously have examined such cases as the 1996 shooting death of rapper Tupac Shakur and the arrest of Wayne Williams, who police identified as the key suspect in more than 20 child murders in Atlanta from 1979 to 1981.

Students meet once a month to hear from criminal justice experts and discuss theories they've formed and clues they've uncovered. McCollum said students put in extensive personal time. They come in on holidays and in their spare time to cover a wall with butcher paper, taping up articles, timelines and notes with questions about case elements that don't make sense.

"You're always working on it. It's always on your mind," said Barkley, who has been a club member since 2005. "Once you get involved in a cold case, you don't just have it for eight hours and then you put it away. It's with you until you solve it."

Barkley was in a car accident last year during which she nearly died three times, medical workers told her. Even then she was thinking about the case, she said.

"They didn't think I was going to make it. They had called my family, the whole nine yards," she said. She was in the hospital for more than a week and had to return several times for treatment. "I called Chief McCollum as soon as I could and I asked her what was going on with the case, and could I take my finals. I woke up with it on my mind, I guess."

Students said they identified with Levy, who was studying criminal justice before she disappeared. And some said they would never forget a visit from Chandra Levy's mother, Susan Levy, in early 2008.

"She told us about her daughter and showed us pictures," Barkley said. "It was very touching. It just wrapped around your heart, just to see the hurt on her face. Her daughter's gone. She just wanted answers. I saw the hurt and pain on her face and I just wanted to fix it."

Kawanda Taylor said Levy's visit allowed her to see beyond the media reports on the case.

"The news gives you a lot of different perspectives. To actually hear how it was, that was interesting to me," said Taylor, 27, of Macon, Ga.

About the same time as Levy's visit, Taylor said, her cousin was shot and killed in a domestic violence incident.

"I could understand where Chandra's mom was coming from," she said. "What happened in my family made me more eager to go and try to help figure out what happened to Chandra. It made me want to just hurry up and at least try to help her family."


Findings confidential

The group's findings are shared only with victims' family members and law enforcement, but representatives have said their conclusions were consistent with the official investigation.

Taylor said she keeps a journal as a way of sharing the information without compromising the investigation.

"You gotta tell somebody," she said. "You can't talk, so you gotta be able to write it down."

Throughout 2008, McCollum said, the students heard from a range of experts. From a prosecutor, they learned the importance of being able to prove their theories. From a homicide detective, they learned which of their theories had legs. They heard from a stalking expert about how to tell when a case looked like a domestic dispute or an attack by a stranger, whether the crime was random or planned, organized or unorganized.

Someone donated half a lamb to the group so they could see how quickly the decomposition process happens. Students visited an area with a similar landscape to the park where Chandra Levy disappeared to see how hard it could have been to find her body.

A police chief talked to them about how to deal, especially in high-profile cases, with the media, "which can try the case for you and be critiquing you at the same time," McCollum said.

A crime scene expert talked about evidence collection, and a psychopathologist discussed the criminal mind. One man offered the group software to help with case management. And a writer visited to help the students learn about writing crime reports.

"None of these people wanted a dime," McCollum said. "They did not ask for anything."

McCollum is an instructor at Bauder, which was founded in 1964. It's part of the for-profit Kaplan Higher Education Corp. Since last year, students at three other campuses joined the research institute.

There is a tradition of college students finding justice in old cases. At Northwestern University Law School in Illinois, for instance, the Center on Wrongful Convictions has exonerated death row inmates.


Call for more groups like it

Susan Levy said Wednesday that she had been thrilled that the students were working on her daughter's case.

"The kids, they said it was life-changing for them, to have met me personally and to work with Chandra's case," Levy said. "The weird part of it is that Chandra was supposed to be on the other end, to work with crime and prevention. I never thought of her being the subject itself. That was hard."

Levy said she and other advocates would like to see more college groups taking up cold case investigations to help cash-strapped departments keep cases alive.

"One thing you worry about is if the regular police department may not have been working on it at all," she said. Levy said last year that sometimes months went by when she wouldn't hear from investigators. "Maybe the case is in the back of the file cabinet or on the back of the desk. These departments are inundated with new cases. They just don't have enough manpower."

Levy said she was in touch with club members by e-mail and phone throughout the year. They would call on memorable days, such as the anniversary of when her daughter went missing or when her body was found.

"It was a support," she said. "With cold cases, you have victims out there who have nobody working on their cases. Any bit of help you can give them goes a long way."

http://chevron.com/countries/venezuela/ (http://chevron.com/countries/venezuela/)

Venezuela Fact Sheet
Highlights of Operations

Chevron is active in Venezuela with both onshore and offshore production projects.

In western Venezuela, Chevron partners in the production of heavy oil at the Boscan Field, light oil at the LL-652 Field and synthetic crude at the Petropiar operation — formerly known as the Hamaca project – in the Orinoco Belt. We are also at work in eastern Venezuela on a conceptual design for a liquefied natural gas (LNG) project to develop Plataforma Deltana Blocks 2 and 3.
We have continued to make new oil and gas discoveries. These finds may provide a possible supply for Venezuela's first LNG train.

Chevron's marketing presence in Venezuela includes Texaco-branded service stations. We also sell lubricants and provide aviation fuels. Through Chevron Oronite, the company also provides important technical support in the sale of lubricants and fuel additives.

In the communities where we work, we make significant contributions to education, health, social and cultural programs.

Business Portfolio
Exploration and Production

Chevron has a strong record in Venezuela of working with our partners to apply the latest technologies in our exploration and production projects.

Total daily production in 2007 from all producing areas in Venezuela averaged 269,000 barrels of liquids and 120 million cubic feet of natural gas. The company's net oil-equivalent in 2007 was 72,000 barrels per day. That production came from three areas.

•  The Boscan Field is located onshore western Venezuela. The field is operated by Petroboscan, an affiliate in which Chevron holds a 39.2 percent interest. During 2007, Petroboscan's total daily production averaged 105,000 barrels of liquids (28,000 net). As of early 2008, water-injection pressure-maintenance and 3 D seismic programs were being pursued to enhance recovery in the more depleted areas of the field. Four wells were converted to water injectors in 2007, and four new wells are planned for 2008 and 2009.

•  Chevron is a 25.2 percent owner of our affiliate Petroindependiente, which operates the LL-652 Field in Lake Maracaibo. During 2007, Petroindependiente's total daily production averaged 7,000 barrels of liquids (1,000 net) and 64 million cubic feet of natural gas (11 million net).

•  The company participates in the Petropiar heavy crude extraction and upgrading operation located in Venezuela's Orinoco Belt, the world's largest known oil and gas deposit. Formerly known as the Hamaca project, crude oil upgrading began in 2004. In 2005, the project facility reached total design capacity of processing and upgrading 190,000 barrels per day of heavy crude oil into 180,000 barrels of lighter, higher-value crude oil. In December 2007, Chevron executed a conversion agreement and signed a charter and by-laws with a subsidiary of Petróleos de Venezuela S.A. (PDVSA), Venezuela’s national oil company, that provided for Chevron to retain its 30 percent interest in the Hamaca project. The new entity is called Petropiar. During 2007, total daily production averaged 157,000 barrels of liquids (39,000 net) and 40 million cubic feet of natural gas (10 million net).

In Venezuela's northeastern region, Chevron holds interests in two offshore blocks in the area known as Plataforma Deltana. In 2007, a conceptual offshore development plan was completed in Block 2, which includes the Loran Field. In Block 3, near the Loran Field, Chevron discovered natural gas in 2005. Both blocks provide a possible supply for Venezuela's first LNG train. In 2007, we also completed seismic work elsewhere in Block 3.

Chevron also has a 100 percent interest in the Cardon III Block, which is located north of the Maracaibo producing region. This block has natural gas potential. Seismic data in this block were collected in 2007, which we plan to process in 2008.

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3549/3321294747_f7cb648c99_m.jpg)

Another good find on your part Lifesong, do we have a general or an exact geographical area in which the mapping was done during the Persistence voyage?

KTF - CBB made you a primo avatar !!

I thought this picture might make kermit smile   ::MonkeyHaHa::

http://chevron.com/countries/netherlands/

Netherlands
Contributing to the Economy and the CommunityHighlights of Operations

Chevron is developing energy resources, conducting advanced research and serving the needs of consumers in the Netherlands.

In the Dutch sector of the North Sea, we are exploring for and producing crude oil and natural gas. We operate and hold interests in nine offshore blocks.

Rotterdam is the global headquarters for marine lubricant additives research for our Chevron Oronite subsidiary. The lab also is responsible for automotive engine oil development for Europe, Africa and the Middle East.

Chevron sells industrial, marine and automotive lubricants to customers directly and through our network of distributors. We also sell marine fuels in Rotterdam and aviation refueling services at Schipol Airport through a joint venture.

Motorists around the Netherlands can find our products through a nationwide network of Texaco-branded service stations.

Updated: March 2008

Lifesong - that award was made to Chevron on September 12, 2005

Chevron Awarded Cardon III License in Venezuela's Rafael Urdaneta Bid Round
SAN RAMON, Calif., Sept. 12 -- Chevron Corporation's local affiliate company in Venezuela has been awarded the exploration license for the Cardon III exploration block, located offshore western Venezuela. The Cardon III block was one of seven blocks offered by the Venezuelan Ministry of Energy and Mines in the Rafael Urdaneta bid round. The block is located in an offshore region with natural gas potential on trend to the north of the prolific Maracaibo producing region
http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2005/09/12/142713.html

I don't think that was anything to do with Persistence................unless their plans were delayed by nearly a year?

Chevron to Start Cardon III Seismic Work in January
     
  BNamericas      Friday, December 15, 2006 


US oil major Chevron (NYSE: CVX) will start a 3D data collection program in January at the Cardon III hydrocarbons block offshore Venezuela's Falcon state, a company official told BNamericas.
"We are going to shoot seismic for the block and the planning for it is going very well," Chevron Latin America Upstream president Ali Moshiri said.

The program start will depend on equipment availability, he added.

Chevron, which bid US$5.6mn for Cardon III, was formally awarded the block in October 2005 at a ceremony attended by Venezuela's President Hugo Chávez and Moshiri.
http://www.rigzone.com/news/article.asp?a_id=39195
 

http://chevron.com/countries/trinidadtobago/

Trinidad & Tobago
Committed to Enhancing the Region's Energy IndustryHighlights of Operations

Chevron's exploration and production in the waters off the east coast of Trinidad and Tobago is yielding impressive results.

As a company, we aim to build a mutually beneficial partnership with the country by developing its natural gas business.

That objective is being fueled by production from the Dolphin and Dolphin Deep natural gas fields located offshore in the East Coast Marine Area. The project's Dolphin platform was installed in 1995. Natural gas flows to the domestic market and is converted to liquefied natural gas (LNG) for export to markets in Europe and the United States.

Additional development to supply future gas is under way.

Updated: March 2008
============================================

Jen previously posted:

press releases
29 Feb 2008
Geolab Srl has been operating in the region since May 2005 and in July 2007 completed the undertaking Survey and ROV Support Services on behalf of the various EPIC Contractors involved in the Dolphin Project utilising our in-house vessels DP Reel and Sentinel and also third party vessel Gulmar Eagle.

http://www.oceanologyinternational.com/page.cfm/T=m/Action=Press/PressID (http://www.oceanologyinternational.com/page.cfm/T=m/Action=Press/PressID)

 ::MonkeyHaHa::

Who needs coffee to clear the morning cobwebs?  Who needs coffee to give that buzz?

Kermit's humor is where it is at!


GOOD MORNING MONKEYS!  GOOD MORNING ZOOKEEPERS!

Janet
7:30 AM PT

Well, an excuse to contact Jug, any excuse even a made up one, is where it is at for some.  That seems to be the objective instead of being truthful.

 ::MonkeyRoll:: ::MonkeyNoNo:: ::MonkeyRoll::

And oh how we would all like to read their findings!  Guess no chance of that unless FBI closes the case and I am not even sure they ever do that.

.

Thanks BUCKSHOT.

I had forgotten all about what Nancy Grace would call a bombshell.  The problem is if  bombshells are not acted on ... they fade from media attention ... they are forgotten and ... become a non issue.

BUCKSHOT ... Paulus' search on the internet the morning of May 30, 2005 is sooo significant.

Janeti

Since its creation in 1998, the “Gulmar Group of Companies”,
led by a team of experts, coming from staff of prominent
renowned offshore contractors, has grown and developed its
skills and now enjoys a reputation for its innovation and professionalism,
making the Gulmar Offshore Group  one of the
leaders in underwater technology in our areas. Gulmar Group
owns / Operates four DP vessels. “Gulmar Condor”, “Gulmar
Falcon”, “Gulmar Eagle” and “Gulmar Badaro” and is in the
process to acquire 2 new built vessels and one DP2 pipe laying
barge.
http://www.oilandgasdirectory.com/ogd/corporate/Gulmar.pdf