Scared Monkeys Discussion Forum

I would appreciate if any posting on this thread could wait until I have finished posting the entire document.  It may take a while.

Thanks

Janet

THE PERSISTENCE

THE TRAP


INTRODUCTION

Kyle Kingman:  My purpose here is not to slander, nor bring self-glory. I want to connect genuine people who are persuers of truth to the object of their pursuit. Further, I want to tell the story of the search which goes far beyond what the press can cover. I mean the people behind the scenes, the emotional aspects, and things you can't get in a two minute YouTube clip from Fox. I think that is fair and deserved for the people who followed this from the beginning.


The Search for Natalee Holloway
Monday, November 26, 2007

I. Mobilization
Key Personnel:
 
Louis Shaffer - Project Lead and Key Contributor - Responsible for financial support, planning, public relations, and press coordination.
 
Tim Miller - Texas Equusearch http://www.texasequusearch.org/ - Project Management, gathering support, missing persons specialist

Tim Trahan - Underwater Expeditions - Project Management

John Silvetti - Project Lead and Key Contributor- Responsible for overall project planning and development. Owner of Marine Surveys, LLC . Donated the R/V Persistence for the search effort.
http://silvettigroup.com/

Marc Broussard - Project Manager - Responsible for logistics, personnel, and planning.

Kent Bourg- Party Chief - Responsible for the R/V Persistence operations and safety. Kent will also operate the side scan sonar.

Kyle Kingman - Field Project Manager, Geophysical Engineer and Marine Geologist - Responsible for side scan sonar acquisition, digital processing, analysis, and target identification. Kyle will assist in side scan sonar operation and guide the ROV (remotely operated vehicle) team to each sonar target.

Dr. Rob Floyd - Marine Geologist /Archaeologist - Responsible for analog sonar data interpretation and analysis and quality control.
Anthony Fontenot - Acoustic Positioning Technician - Responsible for navigation, acoustic tracking, and positioning of the side scan sonar and ROV.

Posted by Kyle Kingman
http://jlbworld.com/files/chapter23/sitedevotedtoseasearch.htm
http://nholloway.blogspot.com/2007/11/mobilization.html

THE PERSISTENCE

THE TRAP


PART 1 - JOHN SILVETTI - A BETRAYAL?

1.  DECEMBER 25, 2007 -THE SONAR DISCOVERY  

Kyle Kingman:  I found the trap sonar target at 1:42 am on Christmas morning. I was asked if I had any targets to investigate with the ROV on Dev 29th. I did. We then performed the 1st ROV dive and confirmed the sonar target was the trap. This was the first ROV dive performed. No other dives were performed prior to this. I kept the sonar target list very confidential. I didn't need people knowing about it and people on board knew well enough not even to ask. When it was time to dive I have the target location. Until then, it was kept confidential.


Continued …

THE PERSISTENCE

THE TRAP


PART 1 - JOHN SILVETTI - A BETRAYAL?

2.  ROV DIVES

Kyle Kingman: There were three ROV dive videos of the trap.

Video 1 : 29th Dec   - ROV visual inspection of the trap. (very small clip of this video on Dateline). Remember, the Dateline footage was taken over our shoulders by filming the ROV monitor. The footage is not the recorded ROV footage.

Video 2: Dec 30th - ROV and Diver visual-only inspection of trap. This is the dive Dateline and Tim Miller witnessed, also the dive footage the screen captures I made came from that were posted by Robin at BNH. I sent these 6 screen shots to the FBI and the FBI only. I was shocked to see them posted. I thought we had a security breach on the boat from my workstation or a leak from the FBI. Turns out the FBI gave them to Dave H. after he couldn't get them from me. After Tim Miller told Dave that we found her in a trap with 99.9% certainty (this is pre-diver inspection), Dave very reasonably requested them from me. I badly wanted to send them to him, but couldn't. Apparently, shortly therafter the FBI send the screen shots to Dave anyway, and therefore Robin had them.

Video 3: Jan 7th - ROV monitoring diver tactile inspection of the trap with sampling of items inside and outside of trap. The trap was not recovered. Recovered samples sent for forensic analysis. Neither Tim Miller nor the media were on board.

Several hours of footage were of other dives on other targets. None were of any relevance. Most targets were of peculiar coral pinnacles, man-made debris, and ship wrecks.



ROV IMAGES

Video 1 - December 29, 2007

(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2261/2345843000_3478e3930e_o.jpg)

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/Trap.jpg)

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/trap2.jpg)

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/trap4.jpg)

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/trap5.jpg)

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/trap6.jpg)

Images:  Kyle Kingman


Video 2 - December 30, 2007

(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2149/2345841784_52614dbecb_o.jpg)

(http://img367.imageshack.us/img367/8683/image532fx0.jpg)

Images: Kyle Kingman


Video 3 - January 7, 2008

(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2352/2345013517_79c1edfb78_o.jpg)

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3249/2345840954_e00aee9854_o.jpg)

Images: Kyle Kingman


Continued …

THE PERSISTENCE

THE TRAP


PART 1 - JOHN SILVETTI - A BETRAYAL?

3.  DECEMBER 29, 2007 - 1ST ROV DIVE - TRAP CONFIRMED  

Kyle Kingman:  I was asked if I had any targets to investigate with the ROV on Dev 29th. I did. We then performed the 1st ROV dive and confirmed the sonar target was the trap. This was the first ROV dive performed. No other dives were performed prior to this. I kept the sonar target list very confidential. I didn't need people knowing about it and people on board knew well enough not even to ask. When it was time to dive I have the target location. Until then, it was kept confidential.


Continued ...

THE PERSISTENCE

THE TRAP


4.  DECEMBER 30, 2007 - ON BOARD MEETING  

Kyle Kingman: I know Tim believed me and was convinced 100% which is why he went and told Dave that we found Natalee on Dec 29th. John stood back and waited and worked with the Aruban Polis to arrange the next dive -Dec 30th's which was the visual-only dive. John told me then he didn't want to hear me ever mention the trap again. Of course this didn't set well with me

Kyle Kingman:  On the morning of the 30th we met on board the Persistence with Hans Mos, Richardson, and the rest of the police brass and dive division. I showed them all the 29th dive video and they agreed that it was very suspicion and looked promising. Later that day 30-Dec we conducted the dive with the Aruban divers along with our own Tim Trahan. We discussed ahead of time 1 thumb up means positively human remains, 2 thumbs up... something conclusively identifying Natalee. When Tim T. gives one thumb down, he said that it was inconclusive.

Kyle Kingman: Mr. Red shirt came on the Persistence along with Dolf, Mos, et al for the meeting on the 30th."

Kyle Kingman: This is certainly NOT John Silvetti. I do not know this man. He was with the Arubans who came on board for the Dec-30th meeting.

Kyle Kingman:  Richardson was onboard the Persistence several times and attended the meetings on the boat.


Continued …

THE PERSISTENCE

THE TRAP


PART 1 - JOHN SILVETTI - A BETRAYAL?

5.  DECEMBER 30, 2007 - 2ND ROV DIVE - VISUAL INSPECTION

Kyle Kingman: What you can't see is immediately before Tim approached the trap opening, a large skate stirred up sediment reducing visibility. The quick signal came because the dive time was nearly up.

Kyle Kingman: The famous "thumbs down" - Tim Trahan said he could not conclusively see human skeletal remains. The signals were: One thumb up for skeletal remains (body), two thumbs up for Natalee. When Tim came out of the water as seen on camera in the Dateline special, he was winded from the dive and gave a short answer of "No, nothing". He (along with many of us) were expecting something very clear and immediately identifiable …

Kyle Kingman:  The Arubans told us there wasn't anything of interest in the trap based on the visual-only inspection (Dateline and Tim Miller present).


Continued …

THE PERSISTENCE

THE TRAP


PART 1 - JOHN SILVETTI - A BETRAYAL?

6.  DECEMBER 30, 2007 - TIM MILLER - A LIABILITY?

Kyle Kingman: I know Tim believed me and was convinced 100% which is why he went and told Dave that we found Natalee on Dec 29th. John stood back and waited and worked with the Aruban Polis to arrange the next dive -Dec 30th's which was the visual-only dive. John told me then he didn't want to hear me ever mention the trap again. Of course this didn't set well with me

Kyle Kingman:  It's unanimous that Tim M. should never have told Dave and Beth anything about the trap until it's contents were forensically examined.  After the diver visual inspection of the trap he was obligated to report what the Aruban divers reported because although limited, it's the only information he had and the family rightfully wanted answers. It was a royal mess. I took a lot of heat for telling Tim Miller anything about the trap that may have prompted him to making the calls to the family. In my defence, I specifically told Tim not to tell anyone about the trap until the contents are analysed. He couldn't wait. He was very emotional, hopeful, and confident. It was a crushing time for all. Most of all- for Tim Miller, Dave, and Beth. This was Dec 30th.

Kyle Kingman:  On the night of the 30th (I believe this was Tim's last night on the Persistence) I approached Tim and proposed some ideas to him. I suggested that we shouldn't take the Aruban Polis divers at their word and proceed with planning a recovery of the trap. Also, I proposed the trap site may not be pristine or the Polis may have already knew about it. This statement was backed up by several comments we heard, behavior we observed, and other things. Tim told me he thought I was right but didn't know what to do about it.

Kyle Kingman: The "99.9%" came independantly from Tim Miller to Dave H. on Dec 29th, prior to the diver visual inspection of the trap. I can't imagine what that must have felt like to be told and then completely retracted the next day. I couldn't believe the information was prematurely leaked to the family before we knew what we were looking at. My heart broke for Dave and Beth.  Personally, I fed off of Tim's inflated confidence and my own on the night of Dec 29th. I did not sleep. Few of us did. The only person able to remain completely objective, much to his credit, was John Silvetti. In hindsight, I am in awe of him for his wisdom(from past hard experiences) and strength. At the time, I thought he was nuts for not siding with the rest of us after the first dive.

Kyle Kingman:  After the Dec 30th dive John [Silvetti] didn't want Tim Miller on board the Persistence because he said Tim wasn't necessary any more and was a liability. I don't know what that exactly means, but Tim wasn't hurting anything except releasing the statements to the press and Holloways that we found Natalee.

Kyle Kingman: He (Tim Miller) stepped off on or about the 1st of Jan to follow up on the false lead in Costa Rica IIRC.

Kyle Kingman:  I hadn't slept in 48 hours. I crashed for a few hours rest and by the time I got up Dateline and Tim Miller had left the boat. That is when John [Silvetti] assumed full control over the remainder of the project and had us searching in the deepest portions of our search area which coincided with Richardson's remarks. Richardson told us after the Jan-7th dive to keep searching in deep water.

Kyle Kingman: We're being fed misinformation to keep us searching and out of their way while they cover their asses, destroy evidence, cover their tracks, and keep us out at sea and away from the trap.


Continued …

THE PERSISTENCE

THE TRAP


PART 1 - JOHN SILVETTI - A BETRAYAL?

7.  JANUARY 7, 2008  - 3RD ROV DIVE  - RECOVERY OF SAMPLES

Kyle Kingman:  Remember, working in Aruban waters you are subject to their invitation. We did not have any of our people in the water. It was our ROV though recording the ops. I didn't agree to how it was but didn't have an option, nor was it my decision to be made. And yes, these photos should boggle your mind.

Kyle Kingman:  07-Jan we dove on the trap with Aruban divers and our ROV recording the dive. They found the piece of blue tarp and blue denim-like fabric, and other things I can't identify.

Kyle Kingman: The fabric(s?) are not visible on either the Dec 29th or 30th dives. There is about an inch of sand over the fabrics. The fabrics are completely covered. The diver sampled the sand and found the fabric underneath the sand. He then bagged the blue fabric. If the other bag contains fabric, it was also in the sand. There was also something possibly recovered from far inside the trap. In the video the diver is inside the trap with just below his knees showing. I don't know what was sampled far inside the trap if anything.

Kyle Kingman:  The bags were deliberately placed there after the divers sampled the contents. The bags were removed just after the ROV got out of the way when the divers took the samples to their boat.... and took off.

Kyle Kingman: It's possible to have been 10 years or so. I don't know for certain and don't have any way to readily test this. The trap was somewhat intact. It's north side was in poor shape, with significant deterioration of it's northern panels. The trap's doop is usually fastened to the outside of the trap. It was laying inside the trap, as if pushed open. The contents sampled inside the trap were laying on top of the door. The trap was found in 90 ft.

Kyle Kingman: The Persistence had no divers on the 7th. Tim Trahan was our diver on the 30th-Dec, but he was out of the country at the time. The Aruban divers were on the police boat, dove from their boat, and returned to their boat.  (March 11, 2008)

Kyle Kingman: They were immediately whisked away by the Aruban police and not seen of again by us on the 7th. (March 11, 2008)

Kyle Kingman: I get done in the survey room backing up the ROV dive and head to the back deck to talk to the Polis divers and see what they sampled and see the Polis boat way in the distance heading away fast. John doesn't seem concerned at all, but I am very dissapointed, concerned, and burning inside because I have a feeling that I/we will never know what they took from the trap. That evening I talked to John asking when we plan on recovering the trap. Previously this was part of the talks and plan, but this time he doesn't seem concerned about ever looking into the trap further. After John verbally BASHED me about the trap for what I said to Tim Miller about the sand body-form and that I believed her skirt was under the sand, John pretty much committed himself to the belief the trap wasn't what we were after. This shocked me because it was exactly what we were looking for- a fish trap lost at sea with human remains.

Kyle Kingman: We had little option other than to have the Aruban dive division recover the samples and bring them back under their care. Remember we are Americans working in Aruban waters, subject to their laws, invitation, and blessing. Our hands are tied for the most part. I personally was extremely uncomfortable with the chain of custody, being that we weren't a part of it, but I was powerless to do anything about it. The samples were photographed in detail by one Aruban diver and the other two investigated the contents of the trap, the dimensions, the rigging, and what surrounded the trap. From the video, it looked like they did a diligent and careful job with the samples and the underwater photography. I don't know who has these pictures, but I must assume ALE.

Kyle Kingman:  It's unanimous that Tim M. should never have told Dave and Beth anything about the trap until it's contents were forensically examined.  After the diver visual inspection of the trap he was obligated to report what the Aruban divers reported because although limited, it's the only information he had and the family rightfully wanted answers. It was a royal mess. I took a lot of heat for telling Tim Miller anything about the trap that may have prompted him to making the calls to the family. In my defence, I specifically told Tim not to tell anyone about the trap until the contents are analysed. He couldn't wait. He was very emotional, hopeful, and confident. It was a crushing time for all. Most of all- for Tim Miller, Dave, and Beth. This was Dec 30th

Kyle Kingman:  Remember after the Jan-7th dive which sampled the trap Richardson told John emphatically to "keep searching she's still out there in the deep ocean".


Continued …

THE PERSISTENCE

THE TRAP


PART 1 - JOHN SILVETTI - A BETRAYAL?

8.  ROV ANALYSIS - TRAP AND SAMPLIES

The fabric - The Tarp - The vertebrae - The Skull

Kyle Kingman:  Dateline (Tim Uelinger) had an agreement with Tim Miller to 'do a story to tell about and help promote TES and give TM recognition, and perhaps a 10 minute side-line story on Natalee along with 11 other missing persons. Dateline tagged along with TM for a while pre-NH search. They (TM and Dateline) came on the Persistence between 15-Dec and 30-Dec. I found the trap on 1:45am Christmas morning. I got the OK to begin our ROV dive series for the 29th, so I made it our first dive. We got visual of the fish trap and that it was suspicious. Basically, the fish trap door was open and there appeared to be a skull and torso-shape in sand on the door inside the trap Reviewing the 29-Dec video I noticed the torso shape in sand had a 90 degree angle and that the sand was supported from falling through the bottom of the trap, which was slightly excavated by currents. I proportioned out the distance from the top of the head, to shoulder, to that 90 degree angle and it was a match to Natalee's photo of her standing -head, to shoulder, to the end of her denim skirt. I showed TM the proportional match and the possibility of a skirt under the sand and he said he's going to tell the parents. I said definitely not until we sample the trap and get results. He made the call to Dave and Beth independently.

Kyle Kingman:  I took the proportions of the body form from the head, to shoulder, to a 90 degree angle which I believed to be the hem line of Natalee's skirt. I then took those proportions and matched them to the photo of Natalee with what she was last seen wearing. The proportions matched within an inch from head, to shoulder, to skirt line. Based on this comparison and with what we believed we saw in the Dec 29th video, Tim Miller contacted the family and told them the 99.9% comment. I told Tim not to do anything until we have forensic results back after the site is processed. Jan 7th we sampled the contents and in my opinion we found the skirt under the sand along with the other items The blue fabric was found right where the skirt is pictured. If it isn't her, it will forever haunt me as a major cosmic WTF.

Kyle Kingman: We all know it wasn't a blouse, but I believe they were sent some piece of fabric other than the fabric found inside the trap.

Kyle Kingman: The portion of the discolored blue fabric was presumably on the bottom of the fabric. In my opinion this discoloration is not another type of fabric, but rather biological staining or discoloration from biological growth caused from a high organic carbon content and decay. Basically, during decay a biological mat will form around the organics from remains. This is what I believe it is on the bottom of the fabric.

Kyle Kingman: It was confirmed by the FBI that they received a fabric sample send by Richardson and that it wasn't a match to Natalee's blouse. I think the video can prove or disprove whatever the FBI was sent was the same object or not. I strongly believe it's blue denim.

Kyle Kingman: Notice the end of the skirt is an identical match to the 90 degree angle in the sand. I believe her left arm was outstretched with her legs slightly bent. I did not edit the legs. I believe the tarp was placed over her and tucked around her, or perhaps tied down. I believe there are several rocks laying on the sand which were placed on the tarp, or inside the tarp over her body which explains their unusual location. Either way, the proportions appear promising.

Kyle Kingman: The fabric(s?) are not visible on either the Dec 29th or 30th dives. There is about an inch of sand over the fabrics. The fabrics are completely covered. The diver sampled the sand and found the fabric underneath the sand. He then bagged the blue fabric. If the other bag contains fabric, it was also in the sand. There was also something possibly recovered from far inside the trap. In the video the diver is inside the trap with just below his knees showing. I don't know what was sampled far inside the trap if anything.

Kyle Kingman: In my opinion that last pic from Jan 7th should be absolutely intriguing and flip your mind from what you thought you knew. In case it isn't clear.. notice the blue denim-like fabric.

Kyle Kingman: Notice the blue fabric swayed in the current.

Kyle Kingman: The blue tarp piece was found approx 6-10 ft away from the trap opening.

Kyle Kingman: The blue tarp and blue fabric was confirmed by Richardson and Mos. Remember, they each only confirmed one piece. One confirmed blue fabric, the other confirmed tarp. From the video you see both.

Kyle Kingman: The most likely to remain at or near it's original location was the skull, which is why I was so convinced the object pictured was a skull.

Kyle Kingman: … John verbally BASHED me about the trap for what I said to Tim Miller about the sand body-form and that I believed her skirt was under the sand

Kyle Kingman: I'm sorry if this is disturbing. I took the picture of Natalee standing on the beach and cropped, rotated, and scaled the image to correlate with the trap body form. Notice the end of the skirt is an identical match to the 90 degree angle in the sand.

Kyle Kingman: The bag that is above the denim bag looks to me as though it contains pieces of vertebrae.

Kyle Kingman:  As of the 2nd week of Feb, this is what I had learned from the FBI: The contents of the trap were being actively investigated. The forensic results of a fabric sample showed the fabric sample was not a match to Natalee's blouse and that no DNA match to Natalee was found within that fabric sample. Human remains were found, but the FBI was not and would not comment on the case. The FBI did not comment on the remains, but rather the fabric sample.

Kyle Kingman: In my opinion, the blue fabric is quite possibly Natalee's skirt. The divers found the denim where I suggested a week earlier (Dec 29th) to Tim Miller that there was likely Natalee's denim skirt under the sand. Also in my opinion, the deni-like fabric is a match in terms of color, quantity, and structure to Natalee's skirt. It's not a lot of denim folded in the bag, but then again her skirt was rather small.

Kyle Kingman:  Remember it was Richardson who said to us that he personally handled the evidence and sent it immediately to our FBI)


Continued …

THE PERSISTENCE

THE TRAP


PART 1 - JOHN SILVETTI - A BETRAYAL?

9.  THE RECOVERY OF THE TRAP?

Kyle Kingman:  On the night of the 30th (I believe this was Tim's last night on the Persistence) I approached Tim and proposed some ideas to him. I suggested that we shouldn't take the Aruban Polis divers at their word and proceed with planning a recovery of the trap. Also, I proposed the trap site may not be pristine or the Polis may have already knew about it. This statement was backed up by several comments we heard, behavior we observed, and other things. Tim told me he thought I was right but didn't know what to do about it.

Kyle Kingman:  After the visual inspection on 30-Dec, the initial plan discussed by the project leads and Aruban police was for us (the team on board the Persistence) to be directly involved in the recovery of the trap. There were talks about getting the proper equipment on board the Persistence such as a suction-recovery system to sift small items from the sand. The talks continued after Jan-7th when the samples were collected.

Just after the 30th of Dec we were told it would take about 10-14 days to bring in a Dutch team capable of processing an underwater site.

Jan 9th through 13th I was off the boat and staying at the Holiday Inn for a much-needed break. I walked up and down the beach many times a day. On the 11th and 12th, I noticed the Dutch coast guard vessel at or VERY near the trap site. I talked to a wind surfer instructor who claims to be at the beach every day for 8 years. He said the boat always comes up the shore just south of where we were standing, turns away and heads offshore. He said it never goes where it was and has never seen it stop.

The vessel was on that spot for 42 minutes that day and about the same duration the next day. I triangulated it's position the best I could using a wrist watch and a few points on land. It was right on the target location based on the measurements.

When I returned to the Persistence (14-Jan) there were no more talks about a trap recovery. When I pressed the issue, I was told "they're no longer interested in the trap or it's recovery".

I raised the issue again in early February and the response was the same - no interest about the trap and no plans to recover.

I assume one of three scenarios: 1) They genuinely aren't interested in the trap, 2) They are/were interested and will take care of it themselves (or have already done so) and don't want us informed or involved, or 3) They already recovered the trap (or processed the site) and don't want us to know for whatever reason, good or otherwise.

Kyle Kingman:  After the Jan 7th Dive I got off the boat for R&R from the 9th-14th at the Holiday Inn.

Meanwhile I'm standing on the beach watching the Dutch Coast Guard at the trap site for 42 and 45 minutes respectively over two days (11-12th). When I got back to the Hotel on the 11th and 12th after seeing the coasties out there I told John [Silvetti]. He didn't want to hear it and didn't believe it. However, a couple weeks later he told me he looked into it by talking to Richardson who said "...not to worry, the Coast Guard doesn't have dive capabilities".

Kyle Kingman:  The Coast Guard is not the same as the Aruba police dive division. It seemed very odd to be told they don't have dive capabilities, especially after they told us it would take about 10-14 days to get a Dutch forensic team on site. This was 12 and 13 days later. Coincidence perhaps?

Kyle Kingman:  Unless the FBI already knew the Dutch were on site doing a sweep.. I doubt they know it was done, if it were. I did not give the information to the FBI and I'm unaware of anyone relaying the possibility to them. I tried to confirm or disprove the Dutch coast guard having been on site twice but I could do neither."


Continued …

THE PERSISTENCE

THE TRAP


PART 1 - JOHN SILVETTI - A BETRAYAL?

10.  CONFLICTS OF INTEREST?

Kyle Kingman - 05/08/08:  John Silvetti told me today that he may be returning to Aruba very soon for a few days.

Kyle Kingman - 06/10/08:  He's (Silvetti) seriously making plans to open an Aruba office so he can conduct business easier in S. America and that would allow him to do that.

Kyle Kingman - 06/13/08:  John is not a believer in the trap. He took ALE's word as gospel that it wasn't case related, yet never studied the videos or bothered to inquire further. He had plans on doing business with Aruba and in S. America and he didn't want to hurt any feelings by talks hinting at lack of complete trust and friendship. I did not feel the same and we had a major difference in opinion. He was the one who never pressed ALE to be completely open with us with the trap evidence. I would have forced them to. However, John was the one paying my invoices so I was forced to sit back and hope for the best.

Kyle Kingman - 06/29/08:  I know John went to Aruba solely to find Natalee. He did make several comments about trying to land some work through contacts he met while in Aruba. This alone isn't a conflict of interest, but it tainted his focus in my opinion. I can't blame him for that, but he did take too much focus off the trap too soon. He claims to know a lot more than I do. I agree, but knowing more information from someone I don't trust is dangerous in my opinion. I'd rather know less lies

Kyle Kingman - 06/29/08:  I havn't heard John mention anything about the pipeline project. If it happens, I hope he's able to do the project. It would be great and his company would be in good position to bid on the job. It wasn't his purpose on going to Aruba.

I'm curious if the birds connects the dots and figures out what John will do before he knows what he's doing. Well, he's a pretty shrewd businessman and usually thinks at least three steps ahead. We'll see how this plays out. I'll be at his house in about 5-6 hours.


Continued …

THE PERSISTENCE

THE TRAP

PART 1 - JOHN SILVETTI - A BETRAYAL?

11.  CONCLUSION - THE PROOF?

Kyle Kingman:  I couldn't get the logs from the Persistence. All things "Holloway" were stripped from the boat once it got back to Louisiana. I had some stuff on my hard drive, but not those logs with the names. The logs and other information are in an unknown secure location. Only two people know that location and I am not one of them. I know better not even to ask about it, especially now.


END OF PART 1

THE PERSISTENCE

THE TRAP


PART 2 - ONGOING BETRAYALS?

1.  THE COVERUP OF THE PERSISTENCE DECEPTION?

Kyle Kingman: I havn't spoken to Beth and don't plan to personally.

Kyle Kingman: I have not given anything to the FBI since the pictures and statements from Dec 29th. Remember, 6 of the pics from the 29th I sent to the FBI ended up on the Internet thanks to the FBI leaking them to Dave and therefore Robin H.

Kyle Kingman:  Oh, no one has possession of any footage except Tim Trahan, an archived copy on the Persistence, and myself."

Kyle Kingman: Unless the FBI already knew the Dutch were on site doing a sweep.. I doubt they know it was done, if it were. I did not give the information to the FBI and I'm unaware of anyone relaying the possibility to them. I tried to confirm or disprove the Dutch coast guard having been on site twice but I could do neither."

Kyle Kingman:  On the contrary, neither Dave, Robin, or Beth has seen any of the ROV footage aside from what was broadcasted on Dateline or the pictures leaked from the FBI to Dave (and Robin H.). Beth has seen nothing in my knowledge.

Kyle Kingman:  Oh, no one has possession of any footage except Tim Trahan, an archived copy on the Persistence, and myself."

Kyle Kingman: None of us gave any statements to the authorities after the 29th. It's possible John Silvetti did, because he was the only one conversing with them after Jan 7th.

Kyle Kingman: She [BETH] needs to know exactly what we found in the proper timing. The way to do that would be through Tim Trahan and I. I can arrange any meeting with him. He represents the owner and the rights to the data, in this case, Louis S. I have everything but I don't want to go around him for chain of custody reasons, professional courtesy, and friendship.


Continued …

THE PERSISTENCE

THE TRAP


PART 2 - ONGOING BETRAYALS?

2.  INCENTIVE TO BETRAY:  MAJOR NETWORKS CONTRACTS?
 
Kyle Kingman:  Right before the Dateline special aired Tim and Louis asked if I could go to ABC to try to sell the footage in an attempt to recoup some of the money invested in the search efforts. ABC was very interested, but decided to wait until the Dateline special aired. After the show they came back to me and declined to purchase it because they felt too much of the story was already told by Dateline. That ended any communication with ABC. About 6 executive producers saw the footage, but none were allowed copies or any pictures. Everything remained in my possesion.

Kyle Kingman:  We are all holding up well. I just flew back to New Jersey for a much needed break. I've been on the Persistence in Aruba since the 15th of December and will be back on board in about a week amid ROV dives.

Kyle Kingman:  I've personally been handling the matter while I was on the east coast last week.  Unfortunately, the Dateline story aired along with Greta and scooped up the remainder of what the press felt was immediately worth reporting on.

Kyle Kingman:  I've talked with Peter Shouten numerous times back in February. He hasn't seen anything but knows about the blue fabrics.  DeVries and Endemol was interested in purchasing the ROV footage and I was working between them, ABC, and CBS to strike a deal.

Kyle Kingman: It was confirmed by the FBI that they received a fabric sample send by Richardson and that it wasn't a match to Natalee's blouse. I think the video can prove or disprove whatever the FBI was sent was the same object or not. I strongly believe it's blue denim. Everyone I show thinks the same thing without being prompted (including senior ABC execs).

Kyle Kingman:  We believe the trap footage may be the missing piece which will raise a BIG question in the minds of the public everywhere. We're in the process of figuring out how to produce and spin the story most accurately and most effectively. Also, and completely independant and unrelated, John will be in Aruba tomorrow and will report soon. This is a different issue. He knows nothing of what we're about to do with the footage.

Kyle Kingman:  On the other hand, those differences has also caused a rift between Tim Trahan/Louis and myself with John.  The result is Tim, Louis and I are moving forward and John is left out of the loop.

Kyle Kingman:  I prefer moving forward with the evidence I have access and knowledge about and using that as a can opener. Once the can is open, the worms are revealed.

Kyle Kingman: Louis does have legal rights to the footage regardless of Underwater Expeditions status. Louis personally signed the checks for the search.
 
Kyle Kingman: I will soon propose a meeting with Beth and other family members, myself, Tim Trahan, Peter DeVries, and whomever else necessary to go over the ROV video, contents, and case status. I would like a couple people very familiar with the case documents also present to help connect dots during the meeting. I would prefer meeting towards the end of April or mid-May to allow adequate time for things to shake themselves out if is going to. If necessary, I have an ABC (20/20) and CBS (early show) film crew ready and willing to take part in such a meeting should it require press coverage. I've already had a meeting with ABC about this and they are "definitely interested" at the executive level. We met in mid-Feb about this already. The question becomes timing, who needs to be there, and whether or not it's covered by the press. I prefer not, but it may be useful. DeVries doesn't need to be there in my opinion but he's good for ratings and helps ABC be cooperative if needed.
 
Kyle Kingman: She [BETH] needs to know exactly what we found in the proper timing.  The way to do that would be through Tim Trahan and I. I can arrange any meeting with him. He represents the owner and the rights to the data, in this case, Louis S.  I have everything but I don't want to go around him for chain of custody reasons, professional courtesy, and friendship.

Kyle Kingman: Louis is currently working with someone who I do not know to put together some documentary on the case, the way it was handled, and what happened during the search. I learned this from Tim T. yesterday. Louis was sold on the idea that it will make him a lot of money.

Kyle Kingman:  No one else has access or copies of the photos or footage. All fingers point back to me when this leaks.


Continued …

THE PERSISTENCE

THE TRAP


PART 2 - ONGOING BETRAYALS?

3.  INCENTIVE TO BETRAY: CAREER OPPORTUNITIES?

SUMMER, 2008

The Travels and Ponderings of Kyle Kingman  

Saturday, August 2, 2008
Through Skøyen Station - Norway, 12-July 2008

On the 7th of July 2008, I flew from Newark to Copenhagen, Denmark. After a 7 ½ hr flight from Newark, I was relieved to land in Denmark. I think the Copenhagen airport was actually a shopping mall disguised as an airport.

<snipped>

The North Sea is a cold, volatile beast. One moment it is tranquil and picturesque, while the next it is an explosive, churning, and bone-chilling frenzy brimming with white caps. Last night, a long low-profile work vessel was operating within a mile of our vessel.

The offshore project manager, John told me that recently 18 people drowned on that same boat when it sank.

Posted by Kyle Kingman
http://kylekingman.blogspot.com/2008/08/through-skyen-station-norway-12-july.html
http://kylekingman.blogspot.com/


Saturday, August 2, 2008
- Ulsteinvik to Cairo- 24-July
2345 hrs, Thursday July 24th – Cairo, Egypt

It’s 0200 hrs local time. Walking off the plane… “At least it’s not as hot as UAE”, I think to myself. “Please God; let my driver be waiting for me”. I was contacted about 12 hours earlier in Norway by a Dutch agent who needed me in Cairo ASAP and they were not afraid to pay a high price to get me here. All I know is there was to be a driver waiting for me. I don’t know who the client is, what the job is, what I’m doing in Egypt, or if I will even be staying in Egypt.

Posted by Kyle Kingman
http://kylekingman.blogspot.com/2008/08/ulsteinvik-to-cairo-24-july.html
http://kylekingman.blogspot.com/


Kyle Kingman - 08/1/08:  Sorry for dissapearing for so long. I've been traveling quite a bit to a few places, then to Norway, and am now in Cairo for about 5 weeks. I'll be headed to Lafayette when I get done in Egypt and will be in close contact with John then. I'll provide an update when I'm able. I hope you're all well.


END OF PART 2

THE PERSISTENCE

THE TRAP


PART 3 - DECEITFUL FUND RAISING?

THE SEARCH FOR NATALEE HOLLOWAY

Kyle Kingman - 02/15/2008
Although we have searched and ruled out an extensive portion of the original planned search area, a substantial portion of the high-probability area yet remains to be explored. Now, following a publicly confirmed admission that Natalee Holloway was disposed at sea, we are confident that completing the focused search area will bring closure. We therefore formally invite and request anyone who this humanitarian effort has touched to get involved and to help support the remaining search efforts. Donations are being handled by Texas Equusearch, a 501 (c) (3) nonprofit organization. Please come beside those who have already given so much to help ensure a proper funeral in Alabama for Natalee Holloway. Please make all donations marked as: "Holloway search".

To learn more about Texas Equusearch and to help support the search for Natalee Holloway, check out: http://www.texasequusearch.org/donate.html

Texas EquuSearch Office:
4013 FM 517, Suite B
Dickinson, Texas 77539
P. O. Box 395, Dickinson, Texas 77539

Office: (281) 309-9500
Fax: (281) 534-6719
Toll Free: (877) 270-9500
Email: donate@texasequusearch.org

Posted by Kyle Kingman
http://nholloway.blogspot.com/2008/02/support-effort.html


END OF PART 3

Reserved

THE PERSISTENCE

THE TRAP


All quotes in this submission were retrieved from the following sources prior to compilation.

SOURCES:

Natalee Holloway
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php

THE SEARCH FOR NATALEE HOLLOWAY
http://nholloway.blogspot.com/

The Travels and Ponderings of Kyle Kingman
http://kylekingman.blogspot.com/

Special Acknowledgement: The Natalee’s Freebirds
http://nataleesfreebirds.blogspot.com/

Reserved

A REMINDER


PRIVATE EYE - BETH HOLLOWAY'S BROTHER

private eye
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #737 2/29 -
« Reply #559 on: March 01, 2008, 04:08:07 PM »

I hope that the Persistence has not done all of this work and gone to all of this expense only to have gotten itself into an arrangement whereby Aruban divers are the ones who actually verify the targets and are the first ones to physically retrieve evidence, with no American divers physically with them. If so, all I can say is I just can't believe this has happened. But surely I am wrong.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2662.msg358435#msg358435


private eye
Discussion #742 3/10 -
« Reply #686 on: March 13, 2008, 06:38:07 PM »

... But sharing information with people who work for people who are directly orchestrating the cover up, Rudy, or the Dutch, is the most irresponsible investigating I can imagine. What kills this investigation is people having to come into it, wanting to apply basic investigatory protocols into place, and then having those channels sabotage the new evidence that the new players discover. Of course, as is happened everytime in this case, the new people eventually come to a point where the manipulation of the evidence is undeniable, but by then the fruits of their work are gone, and there is simply another member of the believers of the cover up group. What I pray that Kyle and the crew of the Persistence will determine, is that regardless of how hard working the man that they are working with appears to work, his work belongs to Rudy, and Rudy belongs to the local dutch.

We are not hysterical, ignorant, paranoid people. We have seen the cover up in action, in broad daylight, with impunity, and if you disregard our warnings, you will become the next chump in a series of chumps, no matter how sophisticated your equipment, the level of your educational achievement, or the extent of your job skills and work history.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2689.msg364750#msg364750


private eye (Beth Holloway's Brother)
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #742 3/10 -
« Reply #690 on: March 13, 2008, 06:56:18 PM »

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2689.msg364756#msg364756

don't believe that Kyle or anyone else is allowed to review the case documents, according to the policy of the prosecutors office. I thought the beauty of the Persistence is that they were to do a true grid seach mission which depends not on psychics or even tips from the authorities, and as such their work would be independent of the investigation. They were there simply to attempt to search a predefined area for Natalee's remains. So I am not sure why they have been lured into defending the work of the Aruban authorities or a discussion of the validity of the investigation as they are not knowledgeable as to the investigation, other than what they have been told by these Arubans. There are an awful lot of highly educated people who have been chumped by people of far less formal education. A well trained police force is not thwarted by a grieving mother and the media.

And Kyle, I by no means am being disrespectful, I think you are brilliant, sincerely. But I don't think your education or work experience has prepared you for a cover up by these types of people. And I think you may be severely underestimating the education, experience, and wisdom of the monkeys and other coverup believers. Don't let them make a fool of you. We need you.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2689.msg364756#msg364756


private eye
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
« Reply #499 on: April 09, 2008, 12:39:50 AM »

If I understood Kyle correctly, and that would be that the Arubans retrieved and possessed all finds, not sharing anything with the crew, then that effort was a waste of time and effort. The only thing it could have accomplished was to locate additional evidence for the Arubans to destroy. I am not sure if that was the protocol out of Aruba's waters though. The effort was superb, but the game was fixed.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2769.msg372245;topicseen#msg372245

klassend
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #787 12/24/08 -
« Reply #411 on: December 30, 2008, 06:53:44 PM »

Sent to me by Natalee's Freebirds:

Please feel free (if you'd like) to post this at your board.
 
During the journey of the Persistence to Aruba, Kyle reached out and emailed with us.  During that time, one of the questions posed to him was regarding protocol if/when Natalee's remains were found.
 
Kyle's response was that he was unsure, but felt that would be settled before the search began.
 
The cautions were given to him about the lack of integrity on the part of Aruba's law enforcement, prosecutor's office, and its judiciary.
 
Contact with Kyle continued throughout the duration of the search by the Persistence.
 
Once back home, Kyle asked us for our help.  He was very concerned about the activities that transpired during their search - specifically surrounding the find of the fishing cage and its contents.  Kyle wanted our help in presenting this information in a factual way, to then be given to Natalee's family. 
 
This was March 18, 2008.  At that time, Kyle assured us he had just recently sent the images from the Dec 30th and Jan 7th dives to the FBI, but had never received a response from them.
 
We later found that to be false.
 
Also at that time, Beth's brother saw the images Kyle had shared with us - but none of the detail he shared later.

We compiled the images Kyle presented us, along with his opinions and the facts surrounding the sequence of events regarding that fishing cage.  Kyle stated he would be getting in touch with Beth Holloway.
 
We later found out that never happened.

At this time, Kyle shared with us the broadcast networks he had approached in February, in an attempt to sell these images to the highest bidder.
 
This didn't concern us greatly at that time - as we were under the impression US law enforcement and Natalee's family had already been made aware of their find.
 
Approximately May 2008 Kyle began dodging questions for details (we had asked for names of Aruban police and divers to be included in our documentation of these events), hedging on moving forward with this, and then he completely disappeared from our board.
 
During that time, we learned Kyle had never contacted Beth, or Dave, or the FBI with this information.
 
We put our original plan into motion - that of presenting this information in a clear and concise manner, and we sent it to Beth Holloway.
 
Beth was disturbed, needed time to digest the information, and wanted to share it with someone she trusts.
 
When Tim Miller was returning to Aruba this past fall, Beth gave us permission to release this information publicly.  

At that point, we gave it to John Kelly, Carmen Adams with the FBI, and got it ready for public consumption.
 
The next step was to publish this information at our blog.
 
One of our members felt we were betraying Kyle in doing so, contacted him, and he re-surfaced at our site with threats of litigation against us - stating this was his "intellectual property" and we could not use it.
 
That of course concerned us greatly - as none of us could afford to be sued.
 
He also stated at that time, Luis Shaefer had just recently sold the rights of the video of these images to a broadcast company for the purposes of a documentary.
 
We contacted legal counsel and were advised to keep our distance from any Persistence crew member, in the face of potential obstruction/accessory charges.
 
At this point, one of our members decided to brace for the possibility of civil litigation, resigned from our membership to protect it from same, and posted what he knows to be factual at SM.
 
Kyle did tell us human remains were found in that fish cage.
 
Kyle did tell us about John Silvetti's intent to open an office on the island of Aruba, to enable him ease in conducting business in South America, and Aruba.
 
Kyle also told us of John's absolute refusal to give that fish cage and its contents any credence - before even it was inspected on Jan 7th.
 
Kyle told us in no uncertain terms that Tim Miller and Dateline were abruptly removed from the Persistence on Dec 30, resulting in only Persistence crew being aboard between that date and the Jan 7 dive of the Arubans.
 
Nothing that was posted at SM by kermit was incorrect, out of context, or in any way false.
 
Regards,
 
Former Natalee's Freebirds Administrator

Natalee and her family deserve justice - and we will not let up until they have it!

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4269.msg603349#msg603349

Did John Silvetti's participation with the enemy who has denied Natalee Holloway justice since the getgo ... betray a family whose only desire is to bring their beloved home?

Janet

++++++

'Scarborough Country' for July 14
updated 8:45 a.m. PT, Fri., July. 15, 2005

JUG TWITTY, NATALEE HOLLOWAY'S STEPFATHER: Beth and I have been through this emotional roller coaster. And all we want is Natalee, whether she's alive or dead. We want to bring her back to the United States, and we'll leave and they can do whatever they want to do.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8551824/


'The Abrams Report' for July 1
updated 7:47 a.m. PT, Wed., July. 6, 2005

BETH HOLLOWAY TWITTY, NATALEE HOLLOWAY'S MOTHER:  We cannot forget to demand and expect to have Natalee.  Natalee deserves to return to her country.  She deserves it, and everyone knows it, Martin, every single person.  Every single person knows that.  They know it.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8485029/

Red
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #802 2/21/08 -
« Reply #335 on: February 23, 2009, 12:30:16 AM »

Hey Monkeys,

Spoke with Beth today. Nothing of any pressing news, we just had not chatted in a while and it was great to do some catch up with her.

However, I took the opportunity to ask Beth a couple of questions that she was kind enough to answer.

Question: Beth, this may come as a strange question but in light of some people writing misrepresentations regarding stuff that SM has done ... has Scared Monkeys on the FP or in the forum ever made comments, posts or done anything that would have upset you that you were angered or disagreed with?

Answer: Red, are you kidding. Scared Monkeys has done so much good from the beginning how could you even ask that. Are you crazy!

My own comment ... its also not like the family has specifically asked for help regarding certain things since 2005. Whether it be advice, news updates, research or translations.     

The fact of the matter is folks that there has been so much done for Natalee's family behind the scenes that goes unsaid, that they all know and have a direct line if they want to ask a question. They do not rely on third party discussion. Generally speaking over the years, family members have contacted us, not the other way around. I do not believe in burdening people who have lost so much.

The truth of the matter is that SM, Red personally, has a a relationship with members of Natalee's family and nothing anyone tries to do, say or lie about will change that fact. We have fought in the trenches together and have bonds outside of the internet and this case. There is nothing that internet trouble makers can do to break up friendships that exist in the real world.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4574.msg686191#msg686191

The following are Kyle Kingman quotes were NOT incorporated into the document but ... should have been included.  In my opinion ... the implications are huge.

____


KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman:  We had an American diver with us on the Dec 30th dive. We were encouraged to do so and invited by the Arubans. I requested all samples to be brought on board the Persistence for visual and top-side photographs. It was ignored by the project lead (John S.) who felt the Arubans would follow whatever they needed to do as far as proper protocol.

Kyle Kingman: The FBI told me they could not send a representative down to us in Aruba unless they were specifically invited to do so by the Aruban authorities. They were simply uninvited.

Kyle Kingman:  The FBI said they needed an invitation. I brought it up to Mos and Richardson and they were talking as if it were a possibility along with a Dutch forensic team. Mos said it would take about 10-14 days to have a Dutch forensic team on site. Never heard another word about it.

Kyle Kingman 06/16/2008: On the other hand, those differences has also caused a rift between Tim Trahan/Louis and myself with John (although John and I remain close friends and colleagues). The result is Tim, Louis and I are moving forward and John [Silvetti] is left out of the loop. Tim Trahan has allied himself with me. What John's doing in Aruba, I am not entirely sure now although I know it's got to do with the pond search and some business relations. loathe the thought of going around John with the trap info but that's Tim's decision, not mine. It was Tim who wanted me involved in where we are going now.

When it is considered that Jossy Mansur and John Silvetti are one in the contention that there was nothing case related in the trap/cage ... my thought process turns to questioning what was the actual purpose of Eduardo Mansur's continuing presence on board the Persistence.  Could the “powers that be” have taken advantage of the trusted relationship that existed between Jossy Mansur and the family of Natalee Holloway?   Could the “powers that be” had assumed the motives of Eduard Mansur would not be questioned  or undermine?

One member of the crew, who held a professional position on board the Persistence, had his suspicions.

IMO

Janet
________

JOSSY MANSUR

Jossy Mansur:  No, my son was not on the dive team, but he was on board the ship every day. What he told me is that the cage is of an industrial type and not similar to the one that went missing the same morning Natalee disappeared. The ship did map a vast area and was able to pinpoint close to 100 items of interest on the bottom of the ocean along the coast. Just when they were about to examine them, they ran out of money because it is an expensive venture.

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman:  We're close to finding the Dirty Hand and a major leak plaguing the investigation. I believe they're linked. I'm assuming Caps isn't deep inside ALE, but do we know that he isn't? We need to figure out who Cap's source is and what he does. Can we confirm Destiny's source is a Dairio reporter? If so, do we know who this would be? Could it be Eduardo Mansur???

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman:  For Jan 7th, Eduardo wasn't on the boat, neither were any media, Tim Miller, or Tim Trahan.

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle said: I trust Jossy and Eduardo, but only because their agenda overlaps ours and Eduardo was a wonderful help. Although it seems complicated why, they do want the case solved.

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman:  I can't imagine what the family is going through. Over the past several months I have stood witness to a lot. I found myself in a very awkward place of knowing a lot, but not enough, but perhaps too much.

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle said: Can we confirm Destiny's source is a Dairio reporter? If so, do we know who this would be? Could it be Eduardo Mansur???

As Beth Holloway would say ... "Greta, this is huge"!

Kyle Kingman's own would reveal that he was in cahoots with Tim Trahan and Louis Schaefer to expose the Persistence deception using the trap footage as evidence.

++++++++


KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman:  Well, it's all going to happen. The big card will soon be played. I just had a secret meeting with Tim Trahan and by proxy, Louis Shafer. Tomorrow, Tim Trahan will get in touch with Beth Holloway in regards to the trap footage and missing evidence. We're getting geared up to play the conspiracy cover-up card on Aruba and force the bogus investigation out into the open. We believe the trap footage may be the missing piece which will raise a BIG question in the minds of the public everywhere.  We're in the process of figuring out how to produce and spin the story most accurately and most effectively. Also, and completely independant and unrelated, John will be in Aruba tomorrow and will report soon. This is a different issue. He knows nothing of what we're about to do with the footage.

______

What Happened to Natalee Holloway?
Thursday 12 March 8:00AM HK/SIN/MAL 7:00AM Thai/WIB
Thursday 12 March 2:00PM HK/SIN/MAL 1:00PM Thai/WIB
Saturday 14 March 1:00PM HK/SIN/MAL 12:00PM Thai/WIB

In December of 2007, eight men from across the United States will set out on an extraordinary mission. On a specially equipped, multi-million dollar ship, they will travel to the deep waters off the island of Aruba. They are searching not for sunken treasure, but something far more valuable to them – a missing 18 year-old named Natalee Holloway.

The leader of the effort is Tim Miller, founder of Texas EquuSearch and the father of a 16 year- old girl who was kidnapped and murdered in 1984. Miller has now taken on the recovery of Natalee Holloway as a personal calling. Miller and Natalee Holloway’s father Dave Holloway, believe that Natalee was likely placed in a crab trap or a steel drum and dumped 3-5 miles offshore, which is where they will focus the search.

Miller has assembled a team of underwater engineering experts from Underwater Expeditions and will bring an arsenal of resources, including hi-tech sonar scanning equipment, underwater video and the help of the FBI and Dutch authorities. The team has but one goal: to bring Natalee home.

Kurtis Productions has been granted exclusive access to what will be the most extensive deep water search to date for Holloway’s body. In this documentary special, Bill Kurtis will join the search and document the recovery mission. He will also revisit Natalee Holloway’s disappearance and subsequent investigation to try and answer the questions on everyone’s mind – where is Natalee? And will her case ever be solved?

http://www.citvasia.com/detailssynopsis.aspx?libId=336&sId=168&sTime=1200

If the Bill Kurtis production had aired would the contents stated in the introduction had shielded John Silvetti from implication in any wrongdoing and ... put the focus on the Aruban's only.

________


JOHN SILVETTI - NO WRONGDOING

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman: Louis is currently working with someone who I do not know to put together some documentary on the case, the way it was handled, and what happened during the search. I learned this from Tim T. yesterday. I do not know how far along this documentary is. I have not had any part in it. In fact, I heard this documentary has distanced most everyone from Louis. Louis was sold on the idea that it will make him a lot of money.

Kyle Kingman: Well, it's all going to happen. The big card will soon be played. I just had a secret meeting with Tim Trahan and by proxy, Louis Shafer. Tomorrow, Tim Trahan will get in touch with Beth Holloway in regards to the trap footage and missing evidence. We're getting geared up to play the conspiracy cover-up card on Aruba and force the bogus investigation out into the open. We believe the trap footage may be the missing piece which will raise a BIG question in the minds of the public everywhere. We're in the process of figuring out how to produce and spin the story most accurately and most effectively. Also, and completely independant and unrelated, John will be in Aruba tomorrow and will report soon. This is a different issue. He knows nothing of what we're about to do with the footage.


THE ARUBANS - THIEVES IN THE NIGHT

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman: The Persistence had no divers on the 7th. Tim Trahan was our diver on the 30th-Dec, but he was out of the country at the time. The Aruban divers were on the police boat, dove from their boat, and returned to their boat. (March 11, 2008)

Kyle Kingman: They were immediately whisked away by the Aruban police and not seen of again by us on the 7th. (March 11, 2008)

Kyle Kingman: I get done in the survey room backing up the ROV dive and head to the back deck to talk to the Polis divers and see what they sampled and see the Polis boat way in the distance heading away fast. John doesn't seem concerned at all, but I am very dissapointed, concerned, and burning inside because I have a feeling that I/we will never know what they took from the trap. That evening I talked to John asking when we plan on recovering the trap. Previously this was part of the talks and plan, but this time he doesn't seem concerned about ever looking into the trap further. After John verbally BASHED me about the trap for what I said to Tim Miller about the sand body-form and that I believed her skirt was under the sand, John pretty much committed himself to the belief the trap wasn't what we were after. This shocked me because it was exactly what we were looking for- a fish trap lost at sea with human remains.

Continued:

Kyle Kingman - 02/12/08:  We are all holding up well. I just flew back to New Jersey for a much needed break. I've been on the Persistence in Aruba since the 15th of December and will be back on board in about a week amid ROV dives. Things have only just begun to get interesting. We'll likely require a film crew on board for most of the remaining work, so once aired you'll have a lot more information

What caused Kyle Kingman to backtrack on his original intentions to reveal to Beth Holloway and the FBI ... with the assistence of the Natalee's Freebirds ... John Silvetti betrayal?

Would revealing the truth encompassing the Persistence deception as well as the ROV images ... have complicated deals with major network deals ... major network which included Louis Schaefer and Tim Trahan while leaving John Silvetti "out of the loop"?

Could incentives pertaining to future career opportunities afforded by John Silvetti been a deterrent not to rock the boat?

Janet

+++++++

NETWORK DEALS:  LOUIS SCHAEFER - TIM TRAHAN

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman - 02/12/08: We are all holding up well. I just flew back to New Jersey for a much needed break. I've been on the Persistence in Aruba since the 15th of December and will be back on board in about a week amid ROV dives. Things have only just begun to get interesting. We'll likely require a film crew on board for most of the remaining work, so once aired you'll have a lot more information.

Kyle Kingman: Louis is currently working with someone who I do not know to put together some documentary on the case, the way it was handled, and what happened during the search. I learned this from Tim T. yesterday. I do not know how far along this documentary is. I have not had any part in it. In fact, I heard this documentary has distanced most everyone from Louis. Louis was sold on the idea that it will make him a lot of money.

Kyle Kingman - 06/10/08:  Well, it's all going to happen. The big card will soon be played. I just had a secret meeting with Tim Trahan and by proxy, Louis Shafer. Tomorrow, Tim Trahan will get in touch with Beth Holloway in regards to the trap footage and missing evidence. We're getting geared up to play the conspiracy cover-up card on Aruba and force the bogus investigation out into the open. We believe the trap footage may be the missing piece which will raise a BIG question in the minds of the public everywhere. We're in the process of figuring out how to produce and spin the story most accurately and most effectively. Also, and completely independant and unrelated, John will be in Aruba tomorrow and will report soon. This is a different issue. He knows nothing of what we're about to do with the footage.

Kyle Kingman - 06/16/08:  On the other hand, those differences has also caused a rift between Tim Trahan/Louis and myself with John (although John and I remain close friends and colleagues). The result is Tim, Louis and I are moving forward and John is left out of the loop. Tim Trahan has allied himself with me.  What John's doing in Aruba, I am not entirely sure now although I know it's got to do with the pond search and some business relations.  I loathe the thought of going around John with the trap info but that's Tim's decision, not mine. It was Tim who wanted me involved in where we are going now.


FUTURE CAREER OPPORTUNITIES: JOHN SILVETTI

SUMMER, 2008

The Travels and Ponderings of Kyle Kingman

Saturday, August 2, 2008
Through Skøyen Station - Norway, 12-July 2008

On the 7th of July 2008, I flew from Newark to Copenhagen, Denmark. After a 7 ½ hr flight from Newark, I was relieved to land in Denmark. I think the Copenhagen airport was actually a shopping mall disguised as an airport.

<snipped>

The North Sea is a cold, volatile beast. One moment it is tranquil and picturesque, while the next it is an explosive, churning, and bone-chilling frenzy brimming with white caps. Last night, a long low-profile work vessel was operating within a mile of our vessel.

The offshore project manager, John told me that recently 18 people drowned on that same boat when it sank.

Posted by Kyle Kingman
http://kylekingman.blogspot.com/2008/08/through-skyen-station-norway-12-july.html
http://kylekingman.blogspot.com/


Saturday, August 2, 2008
- Ulsteinvik to Cairo- 24-July
2345 hrs, Thursday July 24th – Cairo, Egypt

It’s 0200 hrs local time. Walking off the plane… “At least it’s not as hot as UAE”, I think to myself. “Please God; let my driver be waiting for me”. I was contacted about 12 hours earlier in Norway by a Dutch agent who needed me in Cairo ASAP and they were not afraid to pay a high price to get me here. All I know is there was to be a driver waiting for me. I don’t know who the client is, what the job is, what I’m doing in Egypt, or if I will even be staying in Egypt.

Posted by Kyle Kingman

http://kylekingman.blogspot.com/2008/08/ulsteinvik-to-cairo-24-july.html
http://kylekingman.blogspot.com/


KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman - 08/1/08:  Sorry for dissapearing for so long. I've been traveling quite a bit to a few places, then to Norway, and am now in Cairo for about 5 weeks. I'll be headed to Lafayette when I get done in Egypt and will be in close contact with John  then. I'll provide an update when I'm able. I hope you're all well.

It appears that John Silvetti words in the following quote is implying that Kyle Kingman is inexperienced.

Think about it.  Would John Silvetti embark on a huge undertaking in an attempt to locate the remains of Natalee Holloway and ... take on board an inexperienced ROV operator and analyst by the name of Kyle Kingman to assist in the task?

++++++

JOHN SILVETTI - IN HIS OWN WORDS

jdsurveyor1 Newbie Posts: 11
John Silvetti, the Persistence and the Search for Natalee «
Reply #13 on: April 03, 2008, 07:52:13 PM »

The important thing is to raise funds. It will require corporate support as well as private donations. Dave and Beth have been doing a great job getting the word out and while I was on the island, Dave put me in contact with the head of the Hotel Association who is working on raising a sizeable amount.  So many on the island are supporting our efforts as well as people from all over the world. The media really blew the cage out of proportion. Although the cage initially provided some moments of "what is in there", I warned all on board that none of this information was to leave the boat. It was very suspect that a cage of this size was found where it was on the seafloor relative to the coast. My feelings were this was highly unusual and probably had something to do with something, but not what we were after. It was decided that the cage would be investigated further by divers, however, it was designated as only a target of interest. The crew moved onto other targets. Unfortunately, inexperience and frustration led to premature statements, including that we had found her I don't think anyone was more upset than I that this information came off the boat and caused the Holloway family more grief!

http://blogsfornatalee.com/forum/index.php?topic=8476.msg334979#msg334979


KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingsman:  The sediment in this case is fine-grained sand which is preferencially deposited to make a body form. For sand to preferentially deposit, there needs to be a lower energy state where the sand collects and stays. This can be achieved either with a shallow depression creating accomodation space and lower potential energy (not the case) or by creating small eddy currents due to surface friction. The sediment around the door area is being eroded or removed by currents. Where the body was, it is being deposited. Basically, the fabrics created enough resistence for sediment to preferentially collect on it. Further, bacterial staining due to decaying organics acts as a mild cementing agent. Combined, you will have sediment erosion around the body form and deposition on the body form which collects through time. In this case, possibly 2 1/2 years.


The Search for Natalee Holloway
Monday, November 26, 2007

I. Mobilization

Key Personnel:
 
Kyle Kingman - Field Project Manager, Geophysical Engineer and Marine Geologist - Responsible for side scan sonar acquisition, digital processing, analysis, and target identification. Kyle will assist in side scan sonar operation and guide the ROV (remotely operated vehicle) team to each sonar target.

Posted by Kyle Kingman

http://jlbworld.com/files/chapter23/sitedevotedtoseasearch.htm
http://nholloway.blogspot.com/2007/11/mobilization.html


Kyle Kingman
Geophysicist and Marine Geologist
Greater New York City Area

Current Manager at Kingman Geophysical Solutions
Past Manager at Kingman Geophysical Solutions
Education Rutgers, The State University of New Jersey-New Brunswick


Kyle Kingman’s Summary
Kyle Kingman’s Specialties:

Project Management, Sonar Acquisition, hydrographic survey, data processing, remote sensing data analysis

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/b/65/464

Kyle Kingman - 03/20/08:  My intentions here at this forum weren't to just spew out all that I know. My intentions were to get a few trusted close people informed, armed, and organized. Then, once organized get a hold of Beth and present things in a controlled private and safe manner. THEN come up with a plan to procede that is well thought-out.

Kyle Kingman - 03/20/08:  Since I got the go ahead from Tim, we can legally move forward. The document should follow-up the screen shots and trap content description. We can sent the document after the initial dialog. I trust then she (Beth) will be interested in the document.

The contents of the document should be discussed and agreed upon by the birds. Since I'm new here, I should take a back seat to this IMO. I would think it would be a case synthesis which culminates with the trap contents and lack of interest and motivation to fully process the site. Perhaps Beth will then use the document to create the proper motivation using the information to apply political pressure from both sides. The problem I ran into earlier with the FBI was that their hands are tied to do anything unless they're invited to the party. I think political pressure properly applied will ensure an invite to the party. Thoughts?

Title - perhaps "Case Synthesis and Search Results", or something to that effect.


Credit: Jen

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingsman:  The sediment in this case is fine-grained sand which is preferencially deposited to make a body form. For sand to preferentially deposit, there needs to be a lower energy state where the sand collects and stays. This can be achieved either with a shallow depression creating accomodation space and lower potential energy (not the case) or by creating small eddy currents due to surface friction. The sediment around the door area is being eroded or removed by currents. Where the body was, it is being deposited. Basically, the fabrics created enough resistence for sediment to preferentially collect on it. Further, bacterial staining due to decaying organics acts as a mild cementing agent. Combined, you will have sediment erosion around the body form and deposition on the body form which collects through time. In this case, possibly 2 1/2 years.

Credit: Jen

KYLE KINGMAN ... IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman:  We had an American diver with us on the Dec 30th dive. We were encouraged to do so and invited by the Arubans. I requested all samples to be brought on board the Persistence for visual and top-side photographs. It was ignored by the project lead (John S.) who felt the Arubans would follow whatever they needed to do as far as proper protocol.

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman:  I'm the one leaking information on the internet. I'm all for Beth getting the information... all of it. In my opinion she should be first in the loop and I was absolutely against her not getting everything up front.

Credit: Kermit

John Silvetti was not deceiving Kyle Kingsman.  Kyle recognized the game being played our between the Arubans and John Silvetti ... the game where the outcome implied a family would never be afforded the remains of their loved one.

++++++

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman:  On the night of the 30th (I believe this was Tim's last night on the Persistence) I approached Tim and proposed some ideas to him. I suggested that we shouldn't take the Aruban Polis divers at their word and proceed with planning a recovery of the trap. Also, I proposed the trap site may not be pristine or the Polis may have already knew about it. This statement was backed up by several comments we heard, behavior we observed, and other things. Tim told me he thought I was right but didn't know what to do about it. I hadn't slept in 48 hours. I crashed for a few hours rest and by the time I got up Dateline and Tim Miller had left the boat. That is when John assumed full control over the remainder of the project and had us searching in the deepest portions of our search area which coincided with Richardson's remarks. Richardson told us after the Jan-7th dive to keep searching in deep water. John told me then he didn't want to hear me ever mention the trap again. Of course this didn't set well with me

Kyle Kingman: We're being fed misinformation to keep us searching and out of their way while they cover their asses, destroy evidence, cover their tracks, and keep us out at sea and away from the trap.

Unless Tim Trahan observed something Natalee Holloway related in that trap on the December 30th visual dive ... what would his role encompass  in the plans to inform Beth Holloway of the John Silvetti betrayal?

Think about it.  The Aruban divers determined there was nothing Natalee Holloway related in the trap but Tim Trahan did not commit.

Think about it.  John Silvetti would not insist that the contents be recovered on December 30th as Kyle Kingman requested.

+++++

KYLE KINGMAN ... IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman: Tim T. and I were both about to roll forward to Beth with everything. Then, litterally the day of suddenly I get a call from Tim saying Louis dissolved Underwater Expeditions and Tim was out a job. The whole thing is just unreal.

Kyle Kingman:  We had an American diver with us on the Dec 30th dive. We were encouraged to do so and invited by the Arubans. I requested all samples to be brought on board the Persistence for visual and top-side photographs. It was ignored by the project lead (John S.) who felt the Arubans would follow whatever they needed to do as far as proper protocol.

Kyle Kingman: What you can't see is immediately before Tim approached the trap opening, a large skate stirred up sediment reducing visibility. The quick signal came because the dive time was nearly up.

Kyle Kingman: The famous "thumbs down" - Tim Trahan said he could not conclusively see human skeletal remains. The signals were: One thumb up for skeletal remains (body), two thumbs up for Natalee. When Tim came out of the water as seen on camera in the Dateline special, he was winded from the dive and gave a short answer of "No, nothing". He (along with many of us) were expecting something very clear and immediately identifiable …

Kyle Kingsman:  On the morning of the 30th we met on board the Persistence with Hans Mos, Richardson, and the rest of the police brass and dive division. I showed them all the 29th dive video and they agreed that it was very suspicion and looked promising. Later that day 30-Dec we conducted the dive with the Aruban divers along with our own Tim Trahan. We discussed ahead of time 1 thumb up means positively human remains, 2 thumbs up... something conclusively identifying Natalee. When Tim T. gives one thumb down, he said that it was inconclusive

Kyle Kingman:  The Arubans told us there wasn't anything of interest in the trap based on the visual-only inspection  (Dateline and Tim Miller present).

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman: noone has possession of any footage except Tim Trahan, an archived copy on the Persistence, and myself.

Kyle Kingman: Since I got the go ahead from Tim, we can legally move forward. The document should follow-up the screen shots and trap content description. We can sent the document after the initial dialog. I trust then she will be interested in the document.

Kyle Kingman: None of my statements were false.

Kyle Kingman: To the best of my knowledge, the photos have only been sent to the FBI, Beth, Tim Trahan, Louis, John, and myself (and of course here). No one else has access or copies of the photos or footage. All fingers point back to me when this leaks.

Klye Kingman: I have an ABC (20/20) and CBS (early show) film crew ready and willing to take part in such a meeting should it require press coverage. I've already had a meeting with ABC about this and they are "definitely interested" at the executive level. We met in mid-Feb about this.

Credit: Kermit

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman - 03/08:  I don't know why the time is so long between the sample date (7-Jan) and when the FBI claims to have received the items (22-Jan). Richardson claims to have personally sent the items immediately to the FBI. He didn't say anything about it being sent anywhere else. The FBI claims half the samples were sent to Holland for analysis. Richardson says the FBI got it all. The FBI says there were human remains (this is aside from the fabrics). - this is a big lurking question in the forums, whether or not there were human remains. To my understanding, there were indeed remains. The trap appeared to be badly scavenged, with items scattered radially away from the trap opening. Tim Trahan couldn't conclusively identify any bone inside the trap (hence the thumbs down). I couldn't see anything from the video other than the contested skull (which I have dubbed the caribbean skull-sponge).

Credit: Jen

THE TRAP DISTRACTIONS

Kyle Kingman: We're close to finding the Dirty Hand and a major leak plaguing the investigation. I believe they're linked. I'm assuming Caps isn't deep inside ALE, but do we know that he isn't? We need to figure out who Cap's source is and what he does. Can we confirm Destiny's source is a Dairio reporter? If so, do we know who this would be? Could it be Eduardo Mansur???

Kyle Kingman: Just before Christmas they are contacted by a detective and his brother who gave them information that turned out to be the correct latitude While we were searching shortly before Christmas, we were contacted by an Aruban detective who was involved in the Holloway case. He claimed that his brother had a vision about Natalee¢s body offshore and had coordinates. He and his brother agreed to meet on the Persistence. The detective¢s brother gave what he thought were coordinates, but turned out to be a line of latitude. This latitude aligned with Arashi beach and came within a half mile of the fish trap.

Kyle Kingman:  IF a key detective's brother knew the latitude the trap was disposed at or very near, then it's probable the detective knew the same.

Kyle Kingman:  The detective and his brother were both brown-skinned, but not black.

Kyle Kingman:  My opinion on Simian is that he is a detective/cop involved in the case since the beginning. My understanding is that there is only one of the originals remaining. He came to us during the search along with his brother who had a "vision" on where Natalee was disposed. The vision was cryptic and actually contained a latitude which from what he claimed could have been anywhere in the world. The brother thought they were coordinates, but it was just a latitude. Oddly, the latitude was within a half mile from where we found the trap and centered on Arashi beach. Basically, if you stood on land and pointed straight to the trap and were right on the money... this is what the difference amounts to. Based on this latitude we payed a little more attention to the northern portions of the search grid near that Latitude. The trap was found shortly after, within the original search area, but very close to the provided latitude. I would have found the trap without the latitude, but it was very strange. None of us pressed the two for more information because they clearly were VERY uncomfortable.

The brother of the detective came to us and was very persistent over the information. He was almost in tears and just had to "clear his conscience" about it.

His brother, the detective came with him to 'validate him'.

Personally, I think the detective was Simian. The guy kept his mouth shut for the most part but was obviously intelligent and knew a lot more than he led on. It didn't seem he immediately trusted us but gradually became more comfortable, enough to talk.

I think he used his brother and gave us only the amount of information he felt we needed to come across the trap. Basically, by using his brother and claiming the information he shared was only based on a vision, it distances the detective from responsibility and makes it hard to point back to him should it be a problem later. I think the whole game was bogus and he knew almost everything but was helping how he was able and felt comfortable. I don't understand why he had to use his brother and claim a "vision".

The implications of this are tremendous. If true, it means that the early investigators knew where and how Natalee was disposed and it was kept secret and covered up. Not wanting to be implicated but still wanting to help, he could shift the information to a vision of his brothers, perhaps still help a bit and claim no-involvement. However, this man was intelligent enough, cared about the case, yet was self implicated to a high enough level to want to be kept his knowledge a secret. He spoke well enough english and knew everything in my opinion. Perhaps I should find out his name. I never got it. We may never have.

Kyle Kingman: Based on the little I know of Simian, there are striking similarities that stood out after I laid down on the evening I met with the detective and his brother.Perhaps Simian is the detective and Shango is the brother.

Kyle Kingman:  Since the trap was only in 90ft of water and the detective knew about the latitude, did the Polis already know if it's location prior to the search?

Kyle Kingman:  The detective originally wouldn't meet with us and only wanted us to meet with his brother. We convinced him to meet along with his brother and made him feel as comfortable as possible. He reluctantly agreed but wouldn't talk. The brother did all the talking at first. It seemed to me the brother was acting out the "vision" scenario to protect the detective brother. It didn't feel like the brother was in any way corrupt or connected. Also, he wasn't that bright compared to the detective brother. After a while the detective started asking some questions and loosened up a bit. With the pointed questions he asked he proved he knew a lot, but we didn't press him.

Kyle Kingman:  The reason I think the detective is Simian is that:
- he is intimately connected to the case
- forced into silence
- both he and the brother seemed to want the case solved but the whole encounter was so cryptic
- he is condemned if his identity and knowledge were coth exposed. One or the other, he's still safe
- he was intelligent and had a good enough command over the english language (not common over the rest of the bunch)
- IF his brother was acting on his behalf with the whole 'I had a vision' act, then the detective's character supports pulling something like Simian off.
- the detective was very internet and computer savy, which was unusual for the bulk of the Polis.
- It seemed he knew who I was when we were introduced, and said something indicating he had been reading the blog.
- his character was very cryptic; the way he moved, spoke, and asked questions was just not normal.

Kyle Kingman:  Caps is not Simian. He has indicated he knows who was either Shango or Simian. The person he thinks it is, is a cop.

Kyle Kingman:  It was Clyde Burke that went to the meeting with Helen Lejuz

Kyle Kingman:  I need to know what we know about Caps and Destiny. I need their names if possible.

Kyle Kingman: I think it is highly unlikely and completely inconsistent with numerous testimonies and other evidence that the pond (or anything but the ocean) contains Natalee's remains.

Kyle Kingman: We're close to finding the Dirty Hand and a major leak plaguing the investigation. I believe they're linked. I'm assuming Caps isn't deep inside ALE, but do we know that he isn't? We need to figure out who Cap's source is and what he does. Can we confirm Destiny's source is a Dairio reporter? If so, do we know who this would be? Could it be Eduardo Mansur???

Kyle Kingman: This is what I'm trying to figure out now. I need to know the leak! I believe Caps is only one step away from DirtyHand.

private eye
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #708 12/28
« Reply #897 on: December 30, 2007, 06:30:32 PM » 

They will have dateline onboard and I understand that they were involved in the Titantic so I assume they have the expertise to preserve any remains or artifacts and have a protocol. They can always find and locate it, call for assistance and then retrieve it. But that is my fear that they imediately turn it over to Aruba where her remains can become that of a large crab:)


http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2481.880

I cannot comprehend an ongoing ocean search when you consider Kyle Kingman's own words that imply that John Silvetti cannot rule out that Natalee Holloway's remains were in that trap which was recovered by only the Arubans ... the Arubans who have prevented justice from prevailing for the 18 year old American citizen since May 30, 2005.

Then there are the words of Kyle Kingman ... the Persistence own ROV operator/analysis ... which states that the remaining targets are not Natalee Holloway related.

++++++


KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman: I get done in the survey room backing up the ROV dive and head to the back deck to talk to the Polis divers and see what they sampled and see the Polis boat way in the distance heading away fast. John doesn't seem concerned at all, but I am very dissapointed, concerned, and burning inside because I have a feeling that I/we will never know what they took from the trap. That evening I talked to John asking when we plan on recovering the trap. Previously this was part of the talks and plan, but this time he doesn't seem concerned about ever looking into the trap further. After John verbally BASHED me about the trap for what I said to Tim Miller about the sand body-form and that I believed her skirt was under the sand, John pretty much committed himself to the belief the trap wasn't what we were after. This shocked me because it was exactly what we were looking for- a fish trap lost at sea with human remains.

Kyle Kingman: The logs are in a safe somewhere. John and Ryan Poff (one of John's project managers) knows where it is. I can't get copies of the logs at this time. Perhaps in a few months. The target locations are in the safe, although I also have them in a safe spot.  I don't care about the other targets though. I don't think any of it is of any potential interest. Mainly junk, coral, and debris.

Tamikosmom
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #791 1/6/09 -
« Reply #464 on: January 08, 2009, 02:41:02 AM »

Beth Holloway has been informed and ... she has afforded permission to the Natalee's Freebirds to expose all that Kyle Kingman has revealed.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4351.msg617200;topicseen#msg617200


Hotshot
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #791 1/6/09 -
« Reply #498 on: January 08, 2009, 09:15:29 AM »

Beth is a very good woman, don't get me wrong, but what is OK with her doesn't mean the rest of the family is OK with it.  The movie coming out is one of those things.  Dave soesn't want the lifetime movie.  He says enough is enough, "Thats my little girl".

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4351.msg617348;topicseen#msg617348

In 2009 Kurtis Productions aired the ocean search of the Persistence in New Zealand and Asia but was not aired in the United States?

Why?

++++++++++ 

SEPTEMBER, 2008 - UNITED STATES

Big Spender
 
Upcoming Airings:
Thursday, September 18 @ 11pm/10C
Friday, September 19 @ 3am/2C
Sunday, September 21 @ 4pm/3C

Bill Kurtis hosts this documentary special that looks at the case that shocked the nation–the disappearance of 18-year-old Natalee Holloway on the island of Aruba on May 30, 2005. Natalee was last seen alive leaving a bar with three young local men, who became the prime suspects. Natalee’s mother, Beth, is convinced that the men know what happened to her daughter, but authorities have been unable to come up with definitive proof that they are responsible for her death. Kurtis examines the key questions in the case: Will Natalee’s body ever be found? Why can’t authorities solve the case? And where did the investigation go wrong?

http://www.aetv.com/listings/episode_details.do?episodeid=360922&airingid=360996


JANUARY, 2009 - NEW ZEALAND

What Happened To Natalee Holloway
CRIME & INVESTIGATION – Sunday 11 January, 9.30pm

In December of 2007, eight men from across the United States set out on an extraordinary mission. On a specially equipped, multi-million dollar ship, they will travel to the deep waters off the island of Aruba. They are searching not for sunken treasure, but something far more valuable to them, a missing 18 year-old named Natalee Holloway

http://www.throng.co.nz/documentary/what-happened-natalee-holloway


MARCH, 2009 - ASIA

What Happened to Natalee Holloway?
Thursday 12 March 8:00AM HK/SIN/MAL 7:00AM Thai/WIB
Thursday 12 March 2:00PM HK/SIN/MAL 1:00PM Thai/WIB
Saturday 14 March 1:00PM HK/SIN/MAL 12:00PM Thai/WIB

In December of 2007, eight men from across the United States will set out on an extraordinary mission. On a specially equipped, multi-million dollar ship, they will travel to the deep waters off the island of Aruba. They are searching not for sunken treasure, but something far more valuable to them – a missing 18 year-old named Natalee Holloway.

The leader of the effort is Tim Miller, founder of Texas EquuSearch and the father of a 16 year- old girl who was kidnapped and murdered in 1984. Miller has now taken on the recovery of Natalee Holloway as a personal calling. Miller and Natalee Holloway’s father Dave Holloway, believe that Natalee was likely placed in a crab trap or a steel drum and dumped 3-5 miles offshore, which is where they will focus the search.

Miller has assembled a team of underwater engineering experts from Underwater Expeditions and will bring an arsenal of resources, including hi-tech sonar scanning equipment, underwater video and the help of the FBI and Dutch authorities. The team has but one goal: to bring Natalee home.

Kurtis Productions has been granted exclusive access to what will be the most extensive deep water search to date for Holloway’s body. In this documentary special, Bill Kurtis will join the search and document the recovery mission. He will also revisit Natalee Holloway’s disappearance and subsequent investigation to try and answer the questions on everyone’s mind – where is Natalee? And will her case ever be solved?

http://www.citvasia.com/detailssynopsis.aspx?libId=336&sId=168&sTime=1200

SEPTEMBER, 2008 - UNITED STATES


A&E Announces Special Presentation: WHAT HAPPENED TO NATALEE HOLLOWAY?

Aug 7, 2008 - 3:25:40 PM

On the last night of her high school graduation trip in May 2005, 18-year-old Natalee Holloway vanished on the island of Aruba. Now more than three years later, the questions surrounding what happened to the Alabama teen are still unanswered. 

In this A&E SPECIAL PRESENTATION: WHAT HAPPENED TO NATALEE HOLLOWAY?, Bill Kurtis examines the case and details the known facts and the current theories about the elusive mystery.  At one a.m. Natalee left the popular bar, Carlos and Charlie's, with three local men - Joran van der Sloot and brothers Deepak and Satish Kalpoe.  No one else has seen her since. 

Over the years, the three prime suspects have twice been arrested, questioned and released for lack of evidence.  Natalee's mother Beth staunchly pressured the Aruban authorities to press on to solve the case and bring those responsible to justice.  Her most devastating disappointment came when an undercover videotape surfaced in which Joran van der Sloot appeared to confess to knowing what happened that fateful night, but the judge said it wasn't enough and that prosecutors would need more proof to bring charges. 

Despite the extensive efforts of Natalee's mother, Beth, the case remains unsolved and Natalee remains missing.  Bill Kurtis interviews Beth Holloway about her unending ordeal, along with an Aruban prosecutor looking for the truth, an underwater crime scene expert searching for Natalee's remains, and a never-before-interviewed Aruban Police Detective who is still working the case.

Kurtis attempts to answer the lasting questions -- Why hasn't the case been solved?  Where did the investigation go wrong?  And will the Aruban authorities ever bring Natalee the justice she deserves?

WHAT HAPPENED TO NATALEE HOLLOWAY premieres September 18 at 11pm/3am ET and PT On A&E Television.

http://realitytvwebsite.com/RealityTVNews/A-E-Announces-Special-Presentation-WHAT-HAPPENED-TO-NATALEE-HOLLOWAY.html

KURTIS PRODUCTION DOCUMENTARY - WHAT HAPPENED TO NATALEE HOLLOWAY??


KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman: Louis is currently working with someone who I do not know to put together some documentary on the case, the way it was handled, and what happened during the search. I learned this from Tim T. yesterday. I do not know how far along this documentary is. I have not had any part in it. In fact, I heard this documentary has distanced most everyone from Louis. Louis was sold on the idea that it will make him a lot of money.

Kyle Kingman - 02/12/08: We are all holding up well. I just flew back to New Jersey for a much needed break. I've been on the Persistence in Aruba since the 15th of December and will be back on board in about a week amid ROV dives. Things have only just begun to get interesting. We'll likely require a film crew on board for most of the remaining work, so once aired you'll have a lot more information

Kyle Kingman - 06/10/08: Well, it's all going to happen. The big card will soon be played. I just had a secret meeting with Tim Trahan and by proxy, Louis Shafer. Tomorrow, Tim Trahan will get in touch with Beth Holloway in regards to the trap footage and missing evidence. We're getting geared up to play the conspiracy cover-up card on Aruba and force the bogus investigation out into the open. We believe the trap footage may be the missing piece which will raise a BIG question in the minds of the public everywhere. We're in the process of figuring out how to produce and spin the story most accurately and most effectively. Also, and completely independant and unrelated, John will be in Aruba tomorrow and will report soon. This is a different issue. He knows nothing of what we're about to do with the footage.

THE CONTINUED OCEAN SEARCH

February 16, 2009

Dave Holloway won’t give up to search for Natalee
By Maaike Ruepert

After four years since her disappearance the investigation concerning the missing Natalee Holloway seems to be stuck. But Natalees’ father Dave Holloway wants, together with a few American experts, to go and search himself again.

An 80 metres long ship, equipped with modern diving equipment is ready to leave for Aruba. It has cost a mere 5 million dollars to dive up the 150 objects in the Caribbean sea and to dig through a pond to search for a trace of Natalee. An American team, specialised in finding missing people, is willing to spend that amount of money but is waiting in vain for support from Hans Mos, chief prosecutor on Aruba, says Natalee’s father Dave Holloway.

Holloway let’s us know from his place of residence Meridian, Mississippi that he almost has lost every faith in the Aruban judicial system. “What’s happening on Aruba is quite peculiar”.

The latter is calling from Llano, Texas, where he is searching for a 2-year old missing boy. Miller founded the company TexasEquuSearch after the abduction & murder on his daughter Laura and organised several searches for Natalee in 2005. Last year Silvetti searched the seabed in search of a trail from the American girl for months with his ship Persistence.

“We have a witness who says that he saw suspect Joran van der Sloot walking in the night of my daughters disappearance; up to his waist in the mud and walking on one tennis shoe, and later Joran and his father have been seen seen driving a red jeep”, says Dave Holloway. The witness suspects that Joran has been in a pond a bit further on. Holloway: “I would like the pond to be investigated. Probably Jorans’ shoe is in it.” If the tennis shoe is found in the pond, forensic expert Richard Eikelenboom from laboratory IFS for DNA research sees possibilities for a DNA research. “Our company might get DNA from it.''

Chief Public Prosecutor Mos does not want to examine the water though. “That Joran was near that water is no more than an assumption from that witness”, he explains from Oranjestad. “If I have to follow everything, I’m busy all day. And even if I would find something, it still wouldn’t be evidence that Joran has done something.”

Father Holloway doesn’t understand. “Even if it’s not evidence, it can help you get started. As a prosecutor, you have the obligation to investigate thoroughly. He is saying that Jorans’ father Paul van der Slot is a good man, a friend. I wonder if corruption plays a part.”

Holloway, Silvetti and Miller have put the witness through a lie detector test; done by a former CIA agent. The man passed it with flying colors, but the OM doesn’t want to include the results in the Holloway file. “I wasn’t allowed to interfere,” Miller says angrily. “But Natalee is an American, she is one of our girls. We put our best people on it, our best tools, so everybody who loved Natalee and the Arubans can case close the case.''

For example, John Silvetti has taken samples from the pond bottom to determine how deep they have to dig for to find something from four years ago. Silvetti: “I have asked Mos to send samples to the FBI, because I’m not allowed to do that. But as far as I know, those samples are still in the refrigerator at the police station. Mos hasn’t answered the phone for months and won’t call back either. This case stinks. Mos has killed that research.''

Mos says he doesn’t know anything about the taken samples. He labels the criticism as emotion. “They can go ahead if they want to, as long as they inform us,” he says. “I’m not hindering them. I have no idea where that idea is coming from. I really want to solve the case. But I only put the police on matters when there are specific leads. If it would be up to them, they would turn the whole island upside down. The Persistence has only found one object and that didn’t lead to anything. I don’t think we will find anything in the ocean.”

When Silvetti hears the last remark, he almost jumps out of his skin. “What a disgusting allegation,” he says. “On the seabed we have found 150 items coming from people we want to investigate.''

Forensic expert Richard Eikelenboom confirms that there is a chance that the body or clothing of Natalee is found on the seabed. “Seawater is worse for DNA than water,''he says, "but even then there are opportunities for research, especially if the body is found.'' Eikelenboom recommends to dive up the objects and store them under water. The pieces are to be taken out of the water during the DNA research. “Of course, with time & aqueous conditions the DNA will deteriorate.”

Dave Holloway is concerned that the case will be covered up. “The police have done nothing other than to ruin everything. Mos is saying that the case has cost more than 7.5 million Euro. I think to myself: they didn’t have to spend that much money. The case could have been solved a long time ago already.” Tim Miller: “With all the quests we've undertaken already, we have saved the authorities millions of dollars. For us it’s only about finding the girl.”

http://www.ad.nl/buitenland/3007028/Dave_Holloway_geeft_zoektocht_Natalee_niet_op.html

THE CONTINUED OCEAN SEARCH


maandag 16 februari 2009
Vader Holloway geeft zoektocht niet op
Door MAAIKE RUEPERT

Het onderzoek naar de vermiste Natalee Holloway lijkt bijna vier jaar na haar verdwijning op Aruba muurvast te zitten. Toch wil Natalees vader Dave Holloway met enkele Amerikaanse experts zelf weer op onderzoek uit.

Een 80 meter lang schip, uitgerust met moderne duikapparatuur ligt klaar voor vertrek naar Aruba. Een slordige 5 miljoen dollar kost het om 150 objecten op te duiken in de Caribische Zee en een vijver af te graven op zoek naar een spoor van Natalee. Een Amerikaans team, gespecialiseerd in het vinden van vermiste personen, heeft dat bedrag er voor over, maar wacht tevergeefs op steun van Hans Mos, hoofdofficier van justitie op Aruba, zegt Natalees vader Dave Holloway.

Holloway laat vanuit zijn woonplaats Meridian, Mississippi, weten dat hij bijna alle vertrouwen in het Arubaanse justitieapparaat heeft verloren: ,,Het is merkwaardig wat er op Aruba gebeurt.’’

Ook aan de lijn zijn een woedende John Silvetti uit Lafayette, Louisiana, en Tim Miller. De laatste belt vanuit Llano, Texas, waar hij bezig is met een zoekactie naar een 2-jarig jongetje dat vermist is. Miller zette na de ontvoering en moord op zijn dochter Laura het bedrijf TexasEquuSearch op en organiseerde in 2005 diverse zoekacties naar Natalee. Silvetti zocht vorig jaar met zijn schip Persistence maandenlang de zeebodem af op zoek naar een spoor van de Amerikaanse.

,,We hebben een getuige die zegt dat hij in de nacht van mijn dochters verdwijning verdachte Joran van der Sloot - tot zijn middel onder de modder en op één tennisschoen - heeft zien lopen en later Joran en zijn vader heeft zien langsrijden in een rode jeep,’’ vertelt Dave Holloway. De getuige vermoedt dat Joran in een verder gelegen vijver is geweest. Holloway: ,,Ik zou graag die vijver laten onderzoeken. Waarschijnlijk ligt Jorans schoen daarin.’’ Als de tennisschoen in de vijver wordt gevonden, ziet forensisch expert Richard Eikelenboom van laboratorium IFS mogelijkheden voor dna-onderzoek. ,,Ons bedrijf kan daar mogelijk nog dna van af halen.’’

Hoofdofficier van justitie Mos wil echter het water niet laten onderzoeken. ,,Dat Joran bij dat water zou zijn geweest, is niet meer dan een veronderstelling van die getuige,’’ legt hij vanuit Oranjestad uit. ,,Als ik overal achteraan moet gaan, ben ik de hele dag bezig. En al zou ik er iets vinden, dan nog is dat geen bewijs dat Joran iets heeft gedaan.’’

Vader Holloway begrijpt het niet: ,,Al is het geen bewijs, het kan je op weg helpen. Als officier van justitie heb je de verplichting om de zaak tot op de bodem uit te zoeken. Hij zegt dat Jorans vader Paul van der Sloot een goede man is, een vriend. Ik vraag me af of er corruptie in het spel is.’’

Holloway, Silvetti en Miller hebben de getuige een leugendetectortest laten ondergaan door een ex-CIA agent. De man doorstond de test glansrijk, maar het Openbaar Ministerie wil de uitslag niet opnemen in het Holloway-dossier. ,,Ik mocht me er niet mee bemoeien,’’ briest Miller. ,,Maar Natalee is een Amerikaanse, zij is een van onze meisjes. Wij zetten onze beste mensen, onze beste hulpmiddelen in, zodat iedereen die van Natalee hield en de Arubanen de zaak kunnen afsluiten.’’

Zo heeft John Silvetti monsters genomen in de vijverbodem om te bepalen hoe diep ze moeten graven om iets van vier jaar geleden terug te vinden. Silvetti: ,,Ik heb Mos gevraagd de monsters op te sturen naar de FBI, want dat mag ik niet doen. Maar voor zover ik weet, liggen die monsters nog steeds in de koelkast op het politiebureau. Mos neemt al maanden de telefoon niet op en belt ook niet terug. Deze zaak stinkt. Mos heeft dat onderzoek om zeep geholpen.’’

Mos zegt niets van de genomen monsters te weten. Hij doet de kritiek af als emotie. ,,Van mij mogen ze hun gang gaan, als ze het maar even laten weten,’’ zegt hij. ,,Ik werk ze niet tegen. Waar die gedachte vandaan komt, weet ik niet. Ik wil de zaak graag oplossen. Maar ik zet alleen de politie in als er concrete aanwijzingen zijn. Als het aan hen ligt, halen ze het hele eiland overhoop. De Persistence heeft ook maar een object gevonden en dat heeft niets opgeleverd. Ik denk niet dat we in de zee iets vinden.’’

Als Silvetti dat laatste hoort, springt hij bijna uit zijn vel. ,,Wat een walgelijke bewering,’’ roept hij. ,,We hebben nog 150 objecten gevonden op de zeebodem die van mensen afkomstig zijn en die we willen onderzoeken.’’

Forensisch expert Richard Eikelenboom bevestigt dat er een kans is dat het lichaam of kleding van Natalee op de zeebodem wordt gevonden. ,,Zeewater is slechter voor dna dan zoet water,’’ zegt hij, ,,maar ook dan zijn er nog mogelijkheden voor onderzoek, zeker als het lichaam wordt gevonden.’’ Eikelenboom adviseert om de objecten te laten opduiken en vervolgens onder water te bewaren. Tijdens het dna-onderzoek worden de stukken dan pas uit het water gehaald. ,,Het dna gaat in tijd en onder waterige condities natuurlijk wel achteruit. ’’

Dave Holloway is bang dat de zaak in de doofpot verdwijnt. ,, De politie heeft niets anders gedaan dan de boel te verpesten. Mos zegt dat de zaak al meer dan 7,5 miljoen euro heeft gekost. Ik denk dan bij mezelf: ze hadden helemaal niet zoveel geld hoeven uitgeven. De zaak had allang opgelost kunnen zijn.’’ Tim Miller: ,,Met alle zoektochten die we hebben ondernomen, hebben we de autoriteiten miljoenen dollars bespaard. Het gaat ons er alleen om het meisje te vinden.’’

http://www.ad.nl/buitenland/3007028/Dave_Holloway_geeft_zoektocht_Natalee_niet_op.html

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman:  After the 31st of Dec John changes his focus.
gets Tim Miller to leave the boat.

Kyle Kingman:  Present for a dive was Persistence crew, 3 Aruban divers. I know Richardson for a fact knew about the samples, Mos, I don't know if he ever saw anything for certain. I have no way to confirm or deny his involvement. Tim Miller and Tim Traham were not on the boat for this dive.

Kyle Kingman - 02/22/08 (BFN):  This program was originally pitched by NBC to Tim Miller to be a docuentary about TES and turned into a documenary about the Search for Natalee Holloway's body. It seems NBC shamelessly used Tim Miller to get on board the Persistence during the search

Kyle Kingman:  Here's a shocker: the confession from one of the former suspects I was refering to was NOT Joran.

Kyle Kingman:  FYI, we're not stupid. We wouldn't do anything involving forensics even if we had to. Whatever we do will be under the blessing and cooperation of Aruban authorities and the proper people at every stage of this project.

POND SEARCH


KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman - 04/07/08: There are 18 targets. Two are definitely tires. The rest, who knows. It's likely tin cans, mud clumps, and debris. There is one small box-like target but it's only 2ft across and doesn't have much relief, unless it's completely sunk into the mud (likely). I can find something about the size of a hockey puck with that system in good conditions. The water was very shallow when this survey was done. Remember, in February 2006 the pond was almost dry.

Considering the water was low in February, 2008 and ... dry in May, 2008 ... logic dictates if anything Natalee Holloway related was suspected to be in that pond it would have been retrieved.

+++++++++

THE POND


APRIL, 2008

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman - 04/07/08: There are 18 targets. Two are definitely tires. The rest, who knows. It's likely tin cans, mud clumps, and debris. There is one small box-like target but it's only 2ft across and doesn't have much relief, unless it's completely sunk into the mud (likely). I can find something about the size of a hockey puck with that system in good conditions. The water was very shallow when this survey was done. Remember, in February 2006 the pond was almost dry.


SEPTEMBER 9, 2008

Natalee Holloway Investigation: Exclusive … Tim Miller of Texas EquuSearch in Aruba to meet With ALE/Prosecutor … New Witness That Puts Joran & Paulus Van der Sloot Near Ponds on 5/30/05

Diario - Jossy Mansur

In the meantime, the Americans, with police permission, made a sonar
test of the Dam of Monserat in the beginning of this year, when the
level of the water was low. DIARIO has found out that this test discovered 15 objects of interest and that they could define only 3 of them.

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2008/09/10/natalee-holloway-investigation-exclusive-tim-miller-of-texas-equusearch-in-aruba-to-meet-with-aleprosecutor-new-witness-that-puts-joran-paulus-van-der-sloot-near-ponds-on-53005/#more-6039


JANUARY, 2009

January 6, 2009
Press Anouncement
Ladies and gentlemen!

In the month of March 2008 a witness who was urged by Dave Holloway to step forward confronted the Prosecutor’s Office. The man gave a statement on March 16th 2008 accompanied by his lawyer. This witness statement is already widely known: the witness claims he saw Joran van der Sloot in the middle of the night of May 30th walking in front of his house, soaked up to his chest, walking on one shoe and heavily breathing. He was walking into the direction of the hotels, coming from the direction of the Church at Noord. What the witness was actually aiming for was the Police to conduct an intensive search in the dam of Monserrat. Nevertheless the witness could not give us any reason why the Police should conduct a search in the dam. It was the conclusion of the witness that Joran had come from the dam since he came walking from that direction.

There was no indication whatsoever that Joran had been at the dam. For that reason the Police were not ordered to conduct that search. Later, people from the Persistence asked if they were allowed to conduct a search. They were told that they could go ahead if the wanted to. No results were reported. Besides that, the Monserrat dam, which had completely fallen dry by that time, was not long before that request completely searched by dozens of people, for a completely different reason. No results were reported.

http://gretawire.foxnews.com/2009/01/06/aruba-prosecutor-5-page-letter-dont-miss-the-part-where-he-trashes-fox-and-menever-dull/

THE WITNESS

Natalee Holloway Investigation: Exclusive … Tim Miller of Texas EquuSearch in Aruba to meet With ALE/Prosecutor … New Witness That Puts Joran & Paulus Van der Sloot Near Ponds on 5/30/05

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2008/09/10/natalee-holloway-investigation-exclusive-tim-miller-of-texas-equusearch-in-aruba-to-meet-with-aleprosecutor-new-witness-that-puts-joran-paulus-van-der-sloot-near-ponds-on-53005/

++++++++

The Dana Pretzer Show On Scared Monkeys Radio - Friday, September 12, 2008 - Dana Introduces “Justice Interrupted” Tonight With Stacy Dittrich, Susan Murphy-Milano and Robin Sax. Also Jossy Mansur of Diario Discusses New News In The Natalee Holloway Case  

September 12th, 2008  Aruba, Jossy Mansur, Missing Persons, Natalee Holloway, News of the Day, Podcasts, Robin Sax, Stacy Dittrich, Susan Murphy-Milano, The Dana Pretzer Show

Jossy Mansur, the Managing Editor of Diario newspaper in Aruba will also be discussing the recent unnamed witness who has come forward in Aruba and his story of what he saw in the early hours of the morning of May 30, 2005. Jossy will be discussing more details regarding the witness account and the disappearance of Natalee Holloway.

http://scaredmonkeysradio.com/2008/09/12/the-dana-pretzer-show-on-scared-monkeys-radio-friday-september-12-2008-dana-introduces-justice-interrupted-tonight-with-stacy-dittrich-susan-murphy-milano-and-robin-sax/

+++++++++

At the end of February, 2008 ... Caps was upholding the sonar scan search of the Persistence in regards to locating Joran's sneaker and Natalee Holloway's remains and ... then in May, 2008 (above) ... he implies that the sneaker could be located under the mud.

When Kyle Kingman's own words are considered ... the sonar scan does not reveal what is under the mud.

+++++++

texasmom
Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
« Reply #2828 on: February 28, 2008, 04:20:17 AM »

Caps,
Are you pleased with the areas that are now being searched?

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1952.msg356668#msg356668


CapsLockWizard
Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
« Reply #2830 on: February 28, 2008, 04:33:01 AM »

Yes.

At 9:00 will go over there to amke sure they do not mis a spot....The sneaker is there....where is the sneaker is the remains.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1952.msg356675;topicseen#msg356675


CapsLockWizard
Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #3
« Reply #1486 on: May 08, 2008, 05:34:17 AM »

back to the sneaker, you can not never find it since it will sink, and with time the mud will coverit up.

in day time you can not see it becuase the water is murky and dark. (It is gone for ever till the pond dried up and then you have to go and search for it under the mud.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2787.msg379904;topicseen#msg379904


KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman - 04/07/08: There are 18 targets. Two are definitely tires. The rest, who knows. It's likely tin cans, mud clumps, and debris. There is one small box-like target but it's only 2ft across and doesn't have much relief, unless it's completely sunk into the mud (likely).  I can find something about the size of a hockey puck with that system in good conditions. The water was very shallow when this survey was done. Remember, in February 2006 the pond was almost dry.

Hans Mos concedes that a statement given by the witness but ... the polygraph results were never received?

Janet

++++++

THE WITNESS - THE POLYGRAPH

Natalee Holloway Investigation: Exclusive … Tim Miller of Texas EquuSearch in Aruba to meet With ALE/Prosecutor … New Witness That Puts Joran & Paulus Van der Sloot Near Ponds on 5/30/05.

Posted September 10, 2008 by Scared Monkeys
 
We just recieved a call from Tim Miller of Texas Equusearch. Tim is presently in Aruba and planning to meet with the Aruban prosecutor and the ALE. It appears that there is a new witness that has come forward that has placed Joran Van der Sloot in wet and muddy clothing out at 4:00am on 5/30/05. The 48 year old Aruban witness also places Paulus Van der Sloot at the scene picking up Joran in a red jeep.

Why is this witness potentially credible? The Aruban passed two polygraph tests in Houston, TX on August 5, 2008. The tests were performed by John Swartz of John Swartz & Associates, International Polygraph Examiners. The 48 year old Aruba, name withheld for obvious reasons, went to police early on in the investigation; however, was not taken seriously. He is also claimed to have spoke with Hans Mos. Whether an actual police report exists of the witness is unknown.

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2008/09/10/natalee-holloway-investigation-exclusive-tim-miller-of-texas-equusearch-in-aruba-to-meet-with-aleprosecutor-new-witness-that-puts-joran-paulus-van-der-sloot-near-ponds-on-53005/


January 6, 2009
Press Anouncement
Ladies and gentlemen!

Hans Mos:

This witness has turned himself to Dave Holloway, as we have been told. He has given a new statement and has undergone a lie detector test. According to the summary of the lie detector test results (a full report, as promised to my Office by Tim Miller was never received) the witness was considered to be reliable. This Office never questioned the reliability of what the witness claimed to have seen. Yet, the value of his statement in the reconstruction of facts of that night is very limited. With his sole statement this case could never be solved.

http://gretawire.foxnews.com/2009/01/06/aruba-prosecutor-5-page-letter-dont-miss-the-part-where-he-trashes-fox-and-menever-dull/

THE WITNESS - DAVE HOLLOWAY

Natalee Holloway's Dad: Aruba Investigators Ignored Another Potential Witness
Thursday, November 20, 2008

DAVE HOLLOWAY, NATALEE HOLLOWAY'S FATHER: Good evening, Greta.

VAN SUSTEREN: Dave, it seems that there are really three major developments. One is what is the Associated Press is reporting about a witness. Another is what we intend to show the viewers on Monday, our investigation that began when we went all the way to Asia last June and we've been working to corroborate different pieces of it and worked on it since. And then you have also -- you've been involved in an investigation, is that right?

HOLLOWAY: That's correct.

VAN SUSTEREN: What is it that have you uncovered?

HOLLOWAY: We have developed a witness over the last six to eight months, Greta, that initially went to the police. The police kind of blew him off, as they did a lot of other people. But this witness was adamant of what he saw that night, and we brought him to Houston, Texas, about three months ago and gave him a polygraph test and he passed the polygraph.

But basically, what he said was this, that he saw Joran van der Sloot walking down the road, covered in mud from about the waist down, missing a tennis shoe. And about a few minutes later, he came driving by with his father in his red Jeep, headed towards his home.

VAN SUSTEREN: And what was this -- when was this in relation to when Natalee was last seen?

HOLLOWAY: This witness stated that he saw this on the night she disappeared at about 4:00 AM.

VAN SUSTEREN: Now, as you'll see on Monday, as the viewers will see, that's not necessarily something that would be inconsistent with the new evidence that we have developed. And we actually -- we have ours on videotape, which is particularly helpful. But in terms of what you have uncovered with this witness, has this witness of yours spoken to Hans Mos, the prosecutor?

HOLLOWAY: He has. He spoke with him probably about four months ago in the presence of Vinda de Sousa, an attorney down there. And of course, many of the people, with the exception of the prosecutor, believes this witness.

VAN SUSTEREN: Hans Mos does not believe this witness?

HOLLOWAY: Hans Mos does not believe the witness. And when the witness gave his statement, it's my understanding that when he got -- when he almost got to the part talking about the judge, Hans Mos made a comment that, what a nice guy he was and all this kind of stuff. And the witness then decided that, "Hey, I've had enough," and ended his statement. And then he came to us, begging us to search this pond that's located near his home.

VAN SUSTEREN: All right. Now, the -- who's the judge? You mean -- who do you (INAUDIBLE) the judge?

HOLLOWAY: Paul van der Sloot.

VAN SUSTEREN: Paul van -- who was a judge in training at the time. He's no longer a judge.

HOLLOWAY: Right.

VAN SUSTEREN: In fact, he's working. He's in private practice with Joran van der Sloot's lawyer, right?

HOLLOWAY: That's correct.

VAN SUSTEREN: All right. Did the -- did -- was there ever any follow-up to see whether or not your witness had information that was truly helpful? Did Hans Mos, even though he didn't believe him -- did he at least assign someone to go out and investigate and look at that pond area?

HOLLOWAY: No, he didn't. You know, we had asked him to. And in fact, we had planned to go excavate the pond ourselves, and these hurricanes came through and one came close to Aruba and filled the pond back up with water. It's still our plan to go back. I think Hans Mos and I discussed, you know, Natalee's not in the pond, but we believe that, you know, he could possibly find a tennis shoe, maybe her driver's license or even some of Natalee's clothing, which would help lead into, you know, the timeline. And also, this witness implicates Paulus van der Sloot. So if that's the case, you know, that needs to be done.

VAN SUSTEREN: Well, your theory isn't necessarily inconsistent with some of the stuff that we have uncovered, but I guess I find it sort of curious -- I mean, one of the problems -- I don't know if you saw the show last night, Dave, but I'm very tough on Hans Mos because I offered to meet him halfway, even meet him on a weekend to show him what we have, which is a videotape and other things, and he simply had no interest.

HOLLOWAY: Well, he's -- as a public official, he's got a duty and an obligation to follow up on any and all leads, and he seems to be lacking in that department very severely.

VAN SUSTEREN: Well, if he watches our show Monday night, he's going to have a big job in front of him. And I don't know how he can -- I mean, it may turn out to be a wild goose chase, but it also may be turned out to be the absolute truth about what happened to Natalee. And he should at least use his subpoena power to corroborate it or to seek to disprove it and not simply ignore it. Anyway, Dave, thank you, and good luck.

HOLLOWAY: Thank you, Greta.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,455069,00.html


Video:

A Father's Frustration

http://www.foxnews.com/video-search/m/21478374/a_father_s_frustration.htm

THE DIFFERENCE?

FRED GOLBA SEARCH - THE PERSISTENCE SEARCH

In February, 2008 the crew of the Persistence were given the freedom to scan the pond.  However ... there is resistrictions being put on Fred Golba's search.

++++++

Morning News Update
Last Edited: Monday, 23 Mar 2009, 5:25 AM CDT
Created On: Monday, 23 Mar 2009, 5:25 AM CDT

New Search Begins for Natalee Holloway

A new search is underway for missing Mountain Brook teenager Natalee Holloway. Her father says a private investigator will scour a retention pond for answers to bring closure to her family. Tracker dog specialist Fred Golba will begin his latest search for evidence into Holloway’s May 2005 disappearance today. Dave Holloway says the tracker must be accompanied by Aruban police escorts, who delayed a weekend search.

http://www.myfoxal.com/dpp/news/20090323Morning_News_Update


January 6, 2009
Press Anouncement
Ladies and gentlemen!

Hans Mos:

In the month of March 2008 a witness who was urged by Dave Holloway to step forward confronted the Prosecutor’s Office. The man gave a statement on March 16th 2008 accompanied by his lawyer. This witness statement is already widely known: the witness claims he saw Joran van der Sloot in the middle of the night of May 30th walking in front of his house, soaked up to his chest, walking on one shoe and heavily breathing. He was walking into the direction of the hotels, coming from the direction of the Church at Noord. What the witness was actually aiming for was the Police to conduct an intensive search in the dam of Monserrat. Nevertheless the witness could not give us any reason why the Police should conduct a search in the dam. It was the conclusion of the witness that Joran had come from the dam since he came walking from that direction.

There was no indication whatsoever that Joran had been at the dam. For that reason the Police were not ordered to conduct that search. Later, people from the Persistence asked if they were allowed to conduct a search. They were told that they could go ahead if the wanted to. No results were reported. Besides that, the Monserrat dam, which had completely fallen dry by that time, was not long before that request completely searched by dozens of people, for a completely different reason. No results were reported.

http://gretawire.foxnews.com/2009/01/06/aruba-prosecutor-5-page-letter-dont-miss-the-part-where-he-trashes-fox-and-menever-dull/

Jossy attempts gives the impression that Natalee Holloway's remains could be one of the targets not identified by the sonar scan..

However ... Kyle Kingman's own words imply otherwise.  When it is considered that Kyle conducted that sonar scan it can be assumed that he is the most qualified to make a determination.

++++++


THE PERSISTENCE POND SEARCH


APRIL, 2008

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman - 04/07/08: There are 18 targets. Two are definitely tires. The rest, who knows. It's likely tin cans, mud clumps, and debris. There is one small box-like target but it's only 2ft across and doesn't have much relief, unless it's completely sunk into the mud (likely). I can find something about the size of a hockey puck with that system in good conditions. The water was very shallow when this survey was done. Remember, in February 2006 the pond was almost dry.


SEPTEMBER 9, 2008

Natalee Holloway Investigation: Exclusive … Tim Miller of Texas EquuSearch in Aruba to meet With ALE/Prosecutor … New Witness That Puts Joran & Paulus Van der Sloot Near Ponds on 5/30/05

Diario - Jossy Mansur

In the meantime, the Americans, with police permission, made a sonar
test of the Dam of Monserat in the beginning of this year, when the
level of the water was low. DIARIO has found out that this test discovered 15 objects of interest and that they could define only 3 of them.
http://scaredmonkeys.com/2008/09/10/natalee-holloway-investigation-exclusive-tim-miller-of-texas-equusearch-in-aruba-to-meet-with-aleprosecutor-new-witness-that-puts-joran-paulus-van-der-sloot-near-ponds-on-53005/#more-6039

Fred Golba and Gerold Dompig appear to be thisclose.  Then there is the account of Julia Renfro playing host to Fred Golba and his dog at her home while he was in Aruba.

Considering Mark Purcell's unwavering support of Julia Renfro ... could it be speculated that this guy is somewhere in the mix.

++++++

DIARIO Aruba
10/26/2005

The commissioner explains that every tip is assigned a number and if the tip results in being very good, the person can earn a reward, however the fund Dompig speaks of is a fund from people around the world, especially America, who have contributed with much money to help the family with expenses related to the case, that has now reached some million dollars.

According to Dompig, another important question is how this money is not used to help with payments of, for example, those who come to conduct searches in Aruba.

Commissioner Dompig showed as an example the tremendous work of Fred Golba made with his two dogs some time ago and explains that Golba wants to come back to continue searching.

Given that he is looking for funds to pay for his ticket and stay in Aruba to come search, how can he not find funds from the millions that Beth Twitty has from the fund?

[translated by Getagrip]
Posted by Getagrip at 10/27/2005 10:52:00 AM

http://getagripmonkey.blogspot.com/2005_10_23_archive.html


Big Story (Jamie Colby)
FOX News
August 14, 2005

Jim Knox: We arrived on Wednesday, we started working Wednesday afternoon. We met with police first thing as soon as we got off the plane, that’s where we started the cooperation. They were mightily impressed. We presented Fred’s resume of over 2000 finds in 17 different countries and states. They’ve watched the dogs work, they’re impressed, they know that we’re working.

Jamie, I’ve had 1 beer in a week with a hamburger in Saturday.  The previous searchers were taking tubs and ice chests of beer out with them. They’d work 2 hours and come in. They had equipment they didn’t know how to use. I could give you a world of information but ...

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2005/08/15/family-and-equusearch-respond-to-derogatory-comments-from-jim-knox/


'Rita Cosby Live & Direct' for March 15
updated 9:08 a.m. PT, Thurs., March. 16, 2006

COSBY:  You know, Steve, we‘ve had Tim Miller from EquuSearch, all these different guys on there.  They were all sort of turned down by Dompig and it seemed like the Aruban government, of course, the chief of police there.  Why this team? 

STEVE COHEN, SPECIAL ADVISER TO ARUBAN GOVERNMENT:  Well, it‘s a process, of course, that goes back to the Forensic Institute of Holland.  Chief Dompig has been back there twice now. 

And I think what was happening was a determination of just exactly what techniques, in terms of specificity, could one investigator bring to bear versus another? And, of course, Dompig and Fred have established a strong rapport and a great deal of trust between them, and that‘s why he is there.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11857796/


MARK PUCELL

Refugee Unlimited

Doc Holladay PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 5:45 am
So to you FUCKTARDS from the other sites that lurk here and are reading my post, you have been warned: If your plans are to mess with Julia, her family, her children or her friends here in Aruba while you come on a so called fact finding mission, you will need to go through the Doc to get to her. All bravado aside, I would not wish that fate on my worst enemy.

TAMIKOSMOM'S THEORY - IN A NUTSHELL

I believe this latest "pond search" is all connected to the happenings encompassing the trap discovered by the Persistence.  I believe it is another distraction.

I concede that Aruba may be about to give back Natalee Holloway's remains to her family.  However ... the origin of those remains cannot be revealed.  The location of trap implies Joran van der Sloot did not act alone in the disposal of Natalee Holloway's body.  Therefore ... the remains that were taken from the trap by the Arubans on January 7, 2008 have been planted in the Montserat Pond and a witness materializes ...  a witnes who implicates only Joran in the disposal of Natalee Holloway's body with Paulus entering the scenario after the fact.

Think about it.

Joran was seventeen years old ... a minor ... on May 30, 2005.  Justice implies he will receive a slap on the wrist.

Paulus will admit he lied about picking up Joran but ... there will be no consequences for obstruction of the investigation.  Apparently ... family members who obstruct the investigation are given a pass by Dutch law.

Case Closed!

+++++++

‘The Abrams Report’ for June 30
updated 10:30 a.m. PT, Fri., July. 1, 2005

ARLENE ELLIS-SCHIPPER, ARUBAN ATTORNEY: Well basically obstruction of justice is a criminal offense in our criminal code. However, there is an exoneration for family members in the first degree. So in the case of Mr. Van der Sloot it would not apply.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8430777

THE FINALE TO THE GREAT ARUBAN COVERUP


A Theory in a Nutshell

The ROV images along with Kyle Kingman's own words are the backup required to support the contention that .... Natalee Holloway's remains were taken from the trap by the Aruban's on January 7, 2008 and ... planted in the pond.

Think about it.  If the origin of where Natalee Holloway's remains were discovered were reealed ... the implication would be that others beside Joran were involved in the disposal of Natalee Holloway's remains.

However ... the discovery of Natalee Holloway's remains along with the testimony of the witness ... implies that the case can comes to a conclusion with only implicating Joran in the disposal and ... Paulus after the fact.  Keep it simple!

Justice implies that Joran will receive a slap on the wrist.  He was a minor on May 30, 2005.

Paulus' lie regarding his contention that he did not pickup up Joran on the morning of May 30, 2005 at MacDonald's ... is not considered a felony under Aruban law.

Case Closed!

Janet

++++++


‘The Abrams Report’ for June 30
updated 10:30 a.m. PT, Fri., July. 1, 2005

ARLENE ELLIS-SCHIPPER, ARUBAN ATTORNEY: Well basically obstruction of justice is a criminal offense in our criminal code. However, there is an exoneration for family members in the first degree. So in the case of Mr. Van der Sloot it would not apply.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8430777


Growing Frustration in Aruba
Wednesday, July 06, 2005

BETH HOLLOWAY TWITTY: ... But there's something that really bothers me, and I don't think I've made any secrets about it, I've kept a journal of everything everyone said, what day, timeframes. And there's something that really has been bothering me as I read over and over my journal, is I know on the 31st that Paul van der Sloot stated that he picked Joran up at 4 a.m. at McDonald's. It was also said to me by a police spokesperson on June 16 and June 17 that Paul van der Sloot stated that he picked up Joran at 4 a.m. on the 31st at McDonald's. But I noticed on the day that I visited Paul van der Sloot at his home, all of a sudden, it was changed to 11 p.m.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,161705,00.html


KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman: I get done in the survey room backing up the ROV dive and head to the back deck to talk to the Polis divers and see what they sampled and see the Polis boat way in the distance heading away fast. John doesn't seem concerned at all, but I am very dissapointed, concerned, and burning inside because I have a feeling that I/we will never know what they took from the trap. That evening I talked to John asking when we plan on recovering the trap. Previously this was part of the talks and plan, but this time he doesn't seem concerned about ever looking into the trap further. After John verbally BASHED me about the trap for what I said to Tim Miller about the sand body-form and that I believed her skirt was under the sand, John pretty much committed himself to the belief the trap wasn't what we were after. This shocked me because it was exactly what we were looking for- a fish trap lost at sea with human remains.

THE POND SEARCH


oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #752 5-15-08
« Reply #163 on: May 16, 2008, 01:49:33 PM »

The sonar data is irrelevant once the pond has been drained and searched.  If something solid was larger than a baseball it likely would be detectable with sonar.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2844.160


oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #752 5-15-08
« Reply #144 on: May 16, 2008, 12:59:01 PM »

I'll try to clarify a few points. Nice pics by the way.
 
- The pond was searched because of a promising lead we received.
 
- We were able to conduct the scanning sonar (not to be confused with side scan sonar) search of the pond because of some weather related down time during the ocean search.
 
- My analysis of the sonar was used to 1) show that the pond needed to be drained in opposed to be investigated with divers.  The only way to effectively search the pond would be if it were dry. 2) show that there were objects in the pond aside from tires.  I'm not commenting on what these objects could be because I'm not speculating.  I will say that I at least saw tires (I saw a pic of one somewhere) in the scanning sonar.

- The reason the pond search was so delayed was on account of the labor strike.  The pond needed to be completely drained which needed the help of the Polis and fire department.  Needless to say labor was needed and hard to come by.  When the strike ended the pond search happened almost immediately.

- No one said the 40-52 (whatever) investigators from Holland ever stepped foot in or near the pond.  The timing is coincident.  Did anyone see these investigators anywhere near the pond?  I don't think so.   

I hope that cleared up more questions that it raises.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2844.140


oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #752 5-15-08
« Reply #50 on: May 15, 2008, 11:31:03 PM »

... The Monserat pond was searched after it was pumped dry.  No one is commenting on the pond search.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2844.40


KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman - 04/07/08:  A few minutes ago I got another inquiry from Aruba about the pond sonar targets. This is good news. This suggests they are actively working on the case and interested in searching this pond real soon.

CAPSLOCKWIZARD AND FRED GOLBA


Could it be considered suspicous that Fred Golba almost mimics CapsLockWizard's words in regards to the sneaker and remains.

Janet

++++++++

CapsLockWizard
Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
« Reply #2830 on: February 28, 2008, 04:33:01 AM »

At 9:00 will go over there (Persistence sonar search) to amke sure they do not mis a spot....The sneaker is there....where is the sneaker is the remains.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1952.msg356675;topicseen


Chicopee Man Leading Search for Natalee Holloway
Posted: March 20, 2009 03:20 PM PDT
Updated: March 21, 2009 08:37 AM PDT

Golda plans to comb the Aruban pond for any signs of Natalee's remains or van der Sloot's sneaker.  He says, "I want to stick in my arm from my elbow to my shoulder and feel for bones and Joran's sneaker...If we can find that sneaker in there than that whole pond becomes a crime scene and changes the playing game."

http://www.abc40tv.com/Global/story.asp?S=10045093

According to Kyle Kingman's own words ... the pond was searched in when the pond was empty.

+++++++++

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman - 06/13/08:  I haven't talked to John since he left for Aruba. I don't see why or how they need John to search the pond unless they were hell bent at only searching the pond for the targets I picked, which is obsurd since the pond is empty.

THE POND SEARCH - MAY, 2008

CapsLockWizard
Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #3
« Reply #1330 on: May 06, 2008, 01:49:42 AM »

The area in question now is off limited to anyone. A steel chain from across road with a sign saying area prohibited.

The area have dried a lot but still a deep end with water in it. I went to see it yesterday and I could not have access anymore.

Another thing, today a group of CSI (52 in total ) arrived from holland are in Aruba to work on the case. (secret mission)

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2787.msg379191#msg379191

When the impending draining of the pond is considered ... Dave Holloway's reasoningg for pursuing a search of the pond at this time  can be comprehended.

Could Tim Miller's connections in regards to those qualified to do solar/side scanning ....

++++++++ 


Published: March 24, 2009 11:17 pm         
Search for Holloway continues
Father trying to cover all the possibilities
By Brian Livingston

Holloway said he had been waiting for the water level of the retention pond to go down before commissioning this latest search.

"I told the prosecutor I didn't have a great deal of confidence in this latest search," said Holloway. "But the pond is scheduled to be dredged soon and I was concerned if she is there then the dredging may destroy any hopes of finding her. The bottom line is you never know and I didn't want to say later on that, 'maybe I should have at least tried.'"

http://www.meridianstar.com/local/local_story_084001809.html


oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #744 3/19 -
« Reply #461 on: March 20, 2008, 06:48:10 PM »

I personally don't like draining ponds unless absolutely necessary.  The larger the body or water the more cost-effective and efficient a side scan sonar is.  A scanning sonar can be used in smaller ponds.  TES now has connections with people who can best handle this type of search in my opinion.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2721.msg367196#msg367196


Wednesday, March 25, 2009
New search for Natalee Holloway is underway

By Jen Hale
Reporter and weekend anchor
Published: March 24, 2009

This is Fred Golba on Tuesday, searching a retention pond near the hotel where Natalee Holloway was staying on her senior trip to Aruba in May of 2005.

A new witness says - the night Natalee disappeared - he saw main suspect Joran van der Sloot emerge from the pond -  wet, missing one shoe.

Sources on the island also say Texas EquuSearch’s Tim Miller is now en route to Aruba to help.  

Natalee’s father Dave Holloway paid to send Golba and his cadaver dog to Aruba after the witness passed a polygraph test while explaining what he witnessed the night Natalee vanished. 

Aruban prosecutors believe the witness saw someone near the pond the night Natalee disappeared, but they don’t believe it was van der Sloot or anyone related to Natalee’s disappearance.

http://www.nbc13.com/vtm/news/local/article/new_search_for_natalee_holloway_is_underway/65059/

THE POND SEARCH - MAY, 2008

The follow quotes encompass the dialogue of Kyle Kingman (oceanexploration) that took place on the SM Forum at the time of the search that took place in May, 2008 when the pond was dry ... the search ALE deny ever happened ... the search Kyle Kingman claims was motivated by the February, 2008 sonar scan ... the search Kyle Kingman claims the crew of the Persistence was asked to be present.

Kyle Kingman also gives some background into the sonar search of the pond he conducted at the end of February, 2008 ... the search he claims the May, 2008 search was based on.

++++++++

oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #751 5/8 -
« Reply #559 on: May 14, 2008, 05:26:56 PM »

I'm sure you've already heard, but the pond is ropped off and now dry.  40 investigators from Holland were brought in related to the case.  No word on the outcome yet.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2830.msg381276#msg381276


oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #751 5/8 -
« Reply #569 on: May 14, 2008, 06:00:06 PM »

Thanks all.  I don't know what pond Caps is talking about.  I'm referring to the pond we searched back in February.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2830.msg381287#msg381287


oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #751 5/8 -
« Reply #576 on: May 14, 2008, 06:13:38 PM »

The pond I'm referring to under investigation is at:

12 degrees, 33 minutes, 54.5 seconds north,
70 degrees, 2 minutes, 3.9 seconds west.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2830.msg381295#msg381295


oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #751 5/8 -
« Reply #581 on: May 14, 2008, 06:23:17 PM »

My understanding is the pond draining was absolutely necessary.  The purpose for the sonar search in the pond was to build a case to drain it.  Apparently there was enough interest to go ahead with it. We'll see how it goes.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2830.msg381300#msg381300


oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #751 5/8 -
« Reply #596 on: May 14, 2008, 06:56:50 PM »

I was going off memory.  Capture it and I'll confirm or deny the pond.  It was just north of Rt. 3 if I recall.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2830.msg381319#msg381319


oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #751 5/8 -
« Reply #601 on: May 14, 2008, 07:05:52 PM »

The tiny pond is about 0.15-0.2 west of the intersection of Rt. 3 and Rt. 2.  It's on the north side of Rt. 3 next to the soccer field.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2830.msg381325#msg381325


oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #751 5/8 -
« Reply #619 on: May 14, 2008, 07:37:25 PM »

This is the correct pond (Monserat).  Confirmed.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2830.msg381346#msg381346


ocean explortion
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #751 5/8 -
« Reply #748 on: May 15, 2008, 12:40:12 AM »

Yes.  It was drained in relation to the (NH) case.  

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2830.msg381489#msg381489


oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #752 5-15-08
« Reply #36 on: May 15, 2008, 10:03:11 PM »

I worked in an advanced remote sensing and spatial analysis lab for a while working on processing and analysis of satelite imagery.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2844.msg381836#msg381836


ocean exploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #752 5-15-08
« Reply #50 on: May 15, 2008, 11:31:03 PM »

...The Monserat pond was searched after it was pumped dry.  No one is commenting on the pond search.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2844.msg381854#msg381854


oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #752 5-15-08
« Reply #51 on: May 15, 2008, 11:33:33 PM »

Yes, it is certainly the same pond that we searched in February.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2844.msg381855#msg381855


oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #752 5-15-08
« Reply #144 on: May 16, 2008, 12:59:01 PM »

I'll try to clarify a few points. Nice pics by the way.
 
- The pond was searched because of a promising lead we received.
 
- We were able to conduct the scanning sonar (not to be confused with side scan sonar) search of the pond because of some weather related down time during the ocean search.
 
- My analysis of the sonar was used to 1) show that the pond needed to be drained in opposed to be investigated with divers.  The only way to effectively search the pond would be if it were dry. 2) show that there were objects in the pond aside from tires.  I'm not commenting on what these objects could be because I'm not speculating.  I will say that I at least saw tires (I saw a pic of one somewhere) in the scanning sonar.

- The reason the pond search was so delayed was on account of the labor strike.  The pond needed to be completely drained which needed the help of the Polis and fire department.  Needless to say labor was needed and hard to come by.  When the strike ended the pond search happened almost immediately.

- No one said the 40-52 (whatever) investigators from Holland ever stepped foot in or near the pond.  The timing is coincident.  Did anyone see these investigators anywhere near the pond?  I don't think so.   

I hope that cleared up more questions that it raises.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2844.msg381961#msg381961


oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #752 5-15-08
« Reply #150 on: May 16, 2008, 01:12:35 PM »

The scanning sonar has a rotating head which scans 360 degrees (hence the same).  It sends out very narrow high-frequency sound and listens for echos. It operates very similar to an untra-sound machine, only not that high of frequency.  Depending on the range, it can "find" objects about the size of a baseball.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2844.msg381967#msg381967


Quote from: MumInOhio on May 16, 2008, 01:10:17 PM
OE...Thanks If the 40-52 Dutch Investigaters is just coincidental, do you know who has been/is searching the pond?  ALE? Thanks in Advance!

oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #752 5-15-08
« Reply #151 on: May 16, 2008, 01:14:39 PM »

ALE, but there may have been others included.  We were asked to attend.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2844.msg381968#msg381968


oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #752 5-15-08
« Reply #163 on: May 16, 2008, 01:49:33 PM »

The sonar data is irrelevant once the pond has been drained and searched.  If something solid was larger than a baseball it likely would be detectable with sonar.

There was a drainage pipe there.  It was large enough to craw through.  It was long and by looking into it, there was no end in sight and very nasty.  Trust me.  This has all been thought of before.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2844.msg381981#msg381981


oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #752 5-15-08
« Reply #187 on: May 16, 2008, 04:13:42 PM »

I never sensed any objection from Mos or ALE. 

On another note...there were a lot of dog tracks around the pond.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2844.msg382011#msg382011

++++++++++

THE POND SEARCHES

A COMPILATION - RELATED QUOTES

oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #744 3/19 -
« Reply #461 on: March 20, 2008, 06:48:10 PM »

I personally don't like draining ponds unless absolutely necessary.  The larger the body or water the more cost-effective and efficient a side scan sonar is.  A scanning sonar can be used in smaller ponds.  TES now has connections with people who can best handle this type of search in my opinion.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2721.msg367196#msg367196


CapsLockWizard
Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #3
« Reply #1330 on: May 06, 2008, 01:49:42 AM »

The area in question now is off limited to anyone. A steel chain from across road with a sign saying area prohibited.

The area have dried a lot but still a deep end with water in it. I went to see it yesterday and I could not have access anymore.

Another thing, today a group of CSI (52 in total ) arrived from holland are in Aruba to work on the case. (secret mission)

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2787.msg379191#msg379191


CapsLockWizard
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #770 9/20/08 through
« Reply #307 on: September 23, 2008, 12:09:15 AM »

If they didn't search the pond, who did?

They did search the pond on otfer of Hans Mos. Hans even give Order to DOW. (department of Public work) to clean it up and to put a chain around the entrance with a sing saying "No Traspassing " "Verboeden Toegang"

Now after the side scan, John was coordinating with the the OM and ALE to arrange to Pump it emty, but the OM did not lift a finger.
then the OM put a sign and make it prohibid to go to the area.
then when it was dried, the OM stop all activities that where scheduled on the scoccer field and moved them to other fields.

then in the wee hours in the mornings for 3 nights the light where on and from good source the message was clear, it is being search when everyone was as sleep.

Then the ligths never came on anymore. and the soccer ares is almost not used.

hope to clear this fact up.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=3390.msg466527#msg466527


January 6, 2009
Press Anouncement

Hans Mos:

There was no indication whatsoever that Joran had been at the dam. For that reason the Police were not ordered to conduct that search. Later, people from the Persistence asked if they were allowed to conduct a search. They were told that they could go ahead if the wanted to. No results were reported. Besides that, the Monserrat dam, which had completely fallen dry by that time, was not long before that request completely searched by dozens of people, for a completely different reason. No results were reported.

http://gretawire.foxnews.com/2009/01/06/aruba-prosecutor-5-page-letter-dont-miss-the-part-where-he-trashes-fox-and-menever-dull/


KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman - 04/07/08:  A few minutes ago I got another inquiry from Aruba about the pond sonar targets. This is good news. This suggests they are actively working on the case and interested in searching this pond real soon.

Kyle Kingman - 04/07/08: There are 18 targets. Two are definitely tires. The rest, who knows. It's likely tin cans, mud clumps, and debris. There is one small box-like target  but it's only 2ft across and doesn't have much relief, unless it's completely sunk into the mud (likely). I can find something about the size of a hockey puck with that system in good conditions. The water was very shallow when this survey was done. Remember, in February 2006 the pond was almost dry.

Kyle Kingman: The logs are in a safe somewhere. John and Ryan Poff (one of John's project managers) knows where it is. I can't get copies of the logs at this time. Perhaps in a few months. The target locations are in the safe, although I also have them in a safe spot.  I don't care about the other targets though. I don't think any of it is of any potential interest. Mainly junk, coral, and debris.

Kyle Kingman - 06/13/08:   I haven't talked to John since he left for Aruba. I don't see why or how they need John to search the pond unless they were hell bent at only searching the pond for the targets I picked, which is obsurd since the pond is empty.

WITNESS - HOME

CONNECT THE DOTS


COMISION BON BOLUNTAD ta un initiativa di gremionan comercial y sindical - den cuadro di nan responsabilidad civico - pa duna aporte na e proceso electoral y e sistema democratico arubano. E comision tabata activo durante e eleccionnan pa miembro di Parlamento na aña 1994, 1997 y 2001. Na april 2005 e comision a worde re-activa enconexión cu proximo eleccion, oficialmente stipula pa dia 23 di september 2005. E comision ta consisti di siete miembro y ta traha a base voluntario. Na final lo tene un evaluacion di e campaña electoral 2005.

META DI E COMISION:

* pa duna un contribucion na un campaña electoral limpi, transparentey di nivel halto;

* garantiza oportunidad igual pa cada partido politico;

*evita actonan di violencia, destruccion o cu ta stroba partido politico di funciona.


TAREA DI E COMISION:

*  stipula reglanan di conducta pa e periodo di campaña;

*  monitor e campaña electoral y colecta datos financiero di e campaña;

*  sera un ECONVENIO VOLUNTARIO cu e partidonan politico cu lo participa na eleccion dia 23 di september 2005;

*  trata kehonan tocante e reglanan di conducta y e campaña electoral en general;

*  sanciona violacionnan di e convenio voluntario pa medio di denuncia publico;

*publica un evaluacion di e proceso electoral y e relato financiero di campaña.


MIEMBRO DI COMISION:

Dunador di trabao
Ebby Arends – presidente di CBB

Lisette Malmberg – suplente
Sindicato:
Jose Giron

Sixto Vrolijk – suplente
Enseñanza:
Lydia Emerencia – vice presidente

Angelo Brete – suplente
Clero:
Pader J. v/d Lee

Pader S. Tomasik – suplente
Cuerpo Policial:
Jeannette Richardson

Jan v/d Straten – suplente
Liaison cu Prensa
Nilka Franca

Secretario:
Lorraine de Souza


INFORMACION DI CBB:

1.  Procedura di keho

*  solamente por escrito y cu nomber/datos di contacto di e remitente (EFORMULARIO DI KEHO);

*  partidonan involvi y partidonan politico lo worde tendi.


2.  Datos di contacto:

Secretariado CBB
L. de Souza – KvK, tel. 582-1120 ext. 29/fax. 588-3200
email: management@arubachamber.com


INFORME DI EVALUACION DI CAMPAÑA ELECTORAL:

Despues di eleccion un evaluacion di campaña electoral a tuma lugar. Pa por mira e documento por favor primi aki.

http://www.arubachamber.com/ComisionBonBoluntad.htm
http://www.arubachamber.com/Comision_bon_boluntad/rapport_CBB.pdf

Could it be that Tim Miller's and Dave Holloway's respective hinky meters are flashing in regards to the distracting roles of the CapsLockWizard and the pond witness.

++++++

1.  CAPSLOCKWIZARD AND FRED GOLBA CONNECTION?

CapsLockWizard
Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
« Reply #2830 on: February 28, 2008, 04:33:01 AM »

At 9:00 will go over there (Persistence sonar search) to amke sure they do not mis a spot....The sneaker is there....where is the sneaker is the remains.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1952.msg356675;topicseen


Chicopee Man Leading Search for Natalee Holloway
Posted: March 20, 2009 03:20 PM PDT
Updated: March 21, 2009 08:37 AM PDT

Golda plans to comb the Aruban pond for any signs of Natalee's remains or van der Sloot's sneaker.  He says, "I want to stick in my arm from my elbow to my shoulder and feel for bones and Joran's sneaker...If we can find that sneaker in there than that whole pond becomes a crime scene and changes the playing game."

http://www.abc40tv.com/Global/story.asp?S=10045093


2.  THE POND WITNESS AND JOSSY MANSUR CONNECTION?

NANCY GRACE
New Search in Natalee Holloway Disappearance
Aired March 23, 2009 - 20:00:00   ET

JOSSY MANSUR, OWNER, "DIARIO": Because the Aruban government has always based itself on the recommendations of the prosecution, and the only thing that the prosecution wants to do is close this case, Nancy.

GRACE: Why, Jossy? I don`t understand. Why is the Aruban government so hell-bent on closing this case without a resolution? This witness, to my understanding, has passed not one but two independent polygraphs. He even identifies the make and model of the vehicle, which goes back to Daddy, Paulus Van Der Sloot, a red Jeep. Why is the Aruban government ignoring this?

MANSUR: I don`t know why. But we will have to ask them to answer that question. But I know this man, the witness, very well. I`ve known him for a long time. And I believe in what he says, especially after whatever he said was confirmed by two polygraph tests which he passed brilliantly.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0903/23/ng.01.html


Natalee Holloway Investigation: Exclusive … Tim Miller of Texas EquuSearch in Aruba to meet With ALE/Prosecutor … New Witness That Puts Joran & Paulus Van der Sloot Near Ponds on 5/30/05

Diario
Jossy Mansur

Even though Prosecutor Mr. Mos and also the Van Der Sloot family,
want to or not, this gives a complete turnaround in the whole
investigation. Today    DIARIO focuses on the first part of the
declaration of the witness. What is being published today is what the
local authority (e.o. Prosecutor Mos) know from him, since they have
his signed declaration.

But the next publication which will appear in the DIARIO, will
reveal more than the authorities in Aruba know. This is something that
the local witness did not dare tell the local detectives nor to the
prosecution that received him in the beginning. He was too afraid to
do so. But, to the Americans he did give his complete declaration, and he passed a Lie-Detector test in the United States to prove that he was telling the truth.

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2008/09/10/natalee-holloway-investigation-exclusive-tim-miller-of-texas-equusearch-in-aruba-to-meet-with-aleprosecutor-new-witness-that-puts-joran-paulus-van-der-sloot-near-ponds-on-53005/


2.  DAVE HOLLOWAY - NO FAITH IN POND SEARCH?

Published: March 24, 2009 11:17 pm         
Search for Holloway continues
Father trying to cover all the possibilities
By Brian Livingston

Holloway said he had been waiting for the water level of the retention pond to go down before commissioning this latest search.

"I told the prosecutor I didn't have a great deal of confidence in this latest search," said Holloway. "But the pond is scheduled to be dredged soon and I was concerned if she is there then the dredging may destroy any hopes of finding her. The bottom line is you never know and I didn't want to say later on that, 'maybe I should have at least tried.'"

http://www.meridianstar.com/local/local_story_084001809.html


Published: March 24, 2009 11:17 pm         
Search for Holloway continues
Father trying to cover all the possibilities
By Brian Livingston

Dave Holloway, the father of missing teenager Natalee Holloway who disappeared four years ago while on a senior trip to Aruba, said Tuesday morning he really doesn't think his daughter's body will be found during this latest search.

But he didn't want to spend the rest of his life wondering, "what if" either.

"The guy whose claims prompted this latest search at the pond has been bugging me for some time," said Holloway of Meridian. "He is convinced he saw something and he passed not one but two polygraph tests conducted by reputable technicians. Now, I'm not really sure just how accurate polygraph tests are but I kept thinking, 'what if he is right.' I just couldn't see any reason why he would lie about what he believed he saw."

http://www.meridianstar.com/local/local_story_084001809.html


3.  TIM MILLER - NO FAITH IN THE POND SEARCH?

Texas Equusearch Dispels Media Reports Concerning Natalle Holloway Case
Posted on 26. Mar, 2009 by Admin, TES in Featured Articles, Press Releases, TES News

Tim Miller of Texas EquuSearch is working hard to dispel media reports concerning the Natalee Holloway case.  Reports have surfaced today that Texas EquuSearch has collected $1.5 million to continue the search for Natalee, which is entirely untrue.

Also untrue is the report that Tim was traveling to Aruba with Fred Golba.  This has not been the first time that media has printed false reports regarding TES cases, to include the Caylee Anthony case.

<snipped>

http://texasequusearch.org/2009/03/hollowaycase/

THE POND WITNESS - TIM MILLER - THE POLYGRAPH


Natalee Holloway Investigation: Exclusive … Tim Miller of Texas EquuSearch in Aruba to meet With ALE/Prosecutor … New Witness That Puts Joran & Paulus Van der Sloot Near Ponds on 5/30/05
September 10, 2008

We just recieved a call from Tim Miller of Texas Equusearch. Tim is presently in Aruba and planning to meet with the Aruban prosecutor and the ALE. It appears that there is a new witness that has come forward that has placed Joran Van der Sloot in wet and muddy clothing out at 4:00am on 5/30/05. The 48 year old Aruban witness also places Paulus Van der Sloot at the scene picking up Joran in a red jeep.

Why is this witness potentially credible? The Aruban passed two polygraph tests in Houston, TX on August 5, 2008. The tests were performed by John Swartz of John Swartz & Associates, International Polygraph Examiners. The 48 year old Aruba, name withheld for obvious reasons, went to police early on in the investigation; however, was not taken seriously.

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2008/09/10/natalee-holloway-investigation-exclusive-tim-miller-of-texas-equusearch-in-aruba-to-meet-with-aleprosecutor-new-witness-that-puts-joran-paulus-van-der-sloot-near-ponds-on-53005/


Search for Natalee Holloway:Tim Miller of Texas EquuSearch … New Witness in Aruba, Discusions with Prosecutor Hans Mos & Polygraph Exams

Why does Aruba after all this time and bad PR still not want to cooperate and find Natalee Holloway?
September 12, 2008

Tim Miller met with Aruban Prosecutor Hans Mos to discuss and show Mos in person the results of the polygraph exams conducted in Houston, TX.  Miller discussed with Mos the new witness who had come forward and the fact that the 48 year old witness had passed two polygraph exams. However, Hans Mos was quick to point out to Tim Miller that polygraph tests are not looked upon favorably or have much credibility in Aruba.

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2008/09/12/search-for-natalee-hollowaytim-miller-of-texas-equusearch-new-witness-in-aruba-discusions-with-proecutor-hans-mos-polygraph-exams/

The followings quotes originated prior to the Persistence ocean search that began in December, 2007.  However ... Tim Miller words in the May, 2008 interview with Dana and ... Tim Miller's apparent telephone interview with Jen Hale yesterday ... are referencing a future search to dive on targets that were not yet investigated when the Persistence pulled out of Aruba.

++++++

PLANNING STAGES (2007) - THE PERSISTENCE

THE SHIPS

FOX ONLINE - JAMIE COLBY
July 15, 2007

COLBY:  Tim, why are they (Arubans) standing in your way?

MILLER: I don't think they can stand in our way. With the equipment we got and if we have to go in off of Venezuela. Whereever we need to go into, we've got the equipment. In fact they are more than welcome to be on the ship with us. The ships that we are taking over are a 265 foot ship and a 340 foot ship which have all the latest technology on it. In fact the owner of this company, Louis Shaeffer of Superior Offshore International, Louis called Dave Holloway up about two months ago when I was at Louis' house. He said "Mr Holloway, I'm going to promise you something, if your daughter is in a metal container out there in that water, we are going to bring her home."


DANA PRETZER
June 8, 2007

TIM MILLER:  How can you put a timeline on it but you know with the size of these ships, the technology that we're going over there with, we're optimistic. These ships are actually equipped (inaudible) incredible company that's offering these services and again we're going to be interviewing them next week and it's something we've been wanting to make happen, for somebody to step forward. I've been talking to them since December ....

http://scaredmonkeysradio.com/2007/06/08/the-dana-pretzer-show-friday-june-8th-2007-special-guests-tim-miller-robert-peters-janice-smolinski/

I speculate that the pond search in May, 2008 was all about the search that was going on for Jose Tromp ... a missing Aruban and ... CAPS and John Silvetti took full advantage of the situation to further their distraction from the discovery of the trap by implying it was Natalee Holloway related.

+++++++
 
TIM MILLER

klaasend
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #752 5-15-08
« Reply #23 on: May 15, 2008, 08:47:57 PM »

Posted/transcribed by Heli at RU - Tim Miller interview on Dana Pretzer 5/14/08:

Dana Pretzer Show
May 14, 2008

Transcribed from Podcast of the Dana Pretzer Show

Dana:  When you think of Tim Miller and Texas Equusearch of course you know they're a high profile organization that will go out and search for loved ones, missing persons and of course we know them mostly from the search for Natalee Holloway in Aruba.

Tim Miller, of course, is the President of Texas Equusearch and he's going back to Aruba with four other members of Texas Equusearch but they're going to be searching for an aruban and I know that sounds a little bit different but I thought I would bring Tim Miller on to talk about that and I think Tim doesn't care where you're from if there's a way to search for ya, he's gonna go look for ya.

Tim, welcome back to the program.

Tim Miller:  Well, thanks Dana, it's been awhile since I talked to ya, and that's not saying that we (inaudible)

Dana:  I'll bet. Going back to Aruba must bring mixed emotions for you but I'm sure you and your group are focused on trying to find Jose Tromp, I hope I'm pronouncing that properly.

Tim:  Right, and actually, Jose's mother contacted us by e-mail, early, early last week and it was just heartbreaking. I read her e-mail and she wants help and her son Jose actually worked for the prison system, he was saving his money up to go to law school, he wanted to become an attorney and on November 27, Jose disappeared and I called her up immediately and I told her that, I said bottom line, I know that for a fact, you love Jose as much as Dave and Beth loved Natalee and God loved them both the same and you know, yes we will help you.

LE needs to be informed that we will help you, you know we're not gonna go behind their back, we certainly want their co-operation, we're not out to slander Aruba by no means. She's just been really disappointed it's been this long and nobody's helped her so she actually contacted the Minister of Justice and I got a copy of that e-mail that she sent him and then she contacted LE and they feel as though we've got some resources that might be valuable in another missing case in Aruba so right now our plans are to fly over there on Sunday and give them a week of this. Of course, that's what we said when we went on Natalee's case too and we know how far that went.

Dana:  Exactly

Tim:  So you know, we got us another family in Aruba but it doesn't matter where they're at. You know there's families all over the world when they've got a missing child they all go through the same pain. And you know what Maria said, she said she just wants to know what happened to Natalee also. She also knows what that family's going through and all the efforts we put into Natalee's case. You know she called us angels and she said she went to our website ... "yesterday my husband, Humphrey and I were discussing Texas Equusearch your organization is doing wonderful work but also expensive one and we need to know what our contribution will be"

I called her back and told her, you know you don't have to pay that, you've got a son that's missing. We never charge the families, we never ask them for anything and she said "we do not have a lot of money but we will do everything we can, please tell us what to do and how to do it." She said "I read some of the stories of missing persons on your website. You people are angels and I feel so sad, not only because my son is missing but because no one cares when someone is missing in Aruba."

So here's somebody from Aruba that feels as though nobody cares and you know the citizens of Aruba treated us so good while we was there. (inaudible) talked to many, many, many people and her friends over in Aruba and so I feel comfortable that we can go ahead and take four people over there, get residents of Aruba to join us as volunteers in this search and do what we can do. There's a lot of areas in Aruba to search. It's a small island but there's still a lot of areas to search and you know, see if we can put something together for this family.

I think we all know as small as this island is, and it's only my feelings and I've been wrong many times before, but as small as that island is, I'd say it's nearly impossible for a 30 year old man to take off on November 27 and still be missing and nobody see him if he just chose to leave. Unfortuntaely, Mom certainly feels as though something happened to him and if so, we want to go ahead and put every effort we can put into it and go see if we can get him located and you know, make a difference and let Aruba know, you know that this isn't about Aruba

Dana:  Exactly

Tim:  It's something that one of our citizens suffered and we're there for you too so, this is not a big show about Natalee. Our hearts go broken over Natalee and we're not done with that search and we're there for one reason now. When we was there before that one reason was Natalee; this time that reason is for Jose.

Dana:  Absolutely! Again, your organization goes above and beyond and it doesn't matter where the location is or the past was; it's important to try and find Jose.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2844.msg381821


HANS MOS

January 6, 2009
Press Anouncement

Hans Mos:

There was no indication whatsoever that Joran had been at the dam. For that reason the Police were not ordered to conduct that search. Later, people from the Persistence asked if they were allowed to conduct a search. They were told that they could go ahead if the wanted to. No results were reported. Besides that, the Monserrat dam, which had completely fallen dry by that time, was not long before that request completely searched by dozens of people, for a completely different reason. No results were reported.

http://gretawire.foxnews.com/2009/01/06/aruba-prosecutor-5-page-letter-dont-miss-the-part-where-he-trashes-fox-and-menever-dull/


CAPSLOCKWIZARD

CapsLockWizard
Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #3
« Reply #1330 on: May 06, 2008, 01:49:42 AM »

The area in question now is off limited to anyone. A steel chain from across road with a sign saying area prohibited.

The area have dried a lot but still a deep end with water in it. I went to see it yesterday and I could not have access anymore.

Another thing, today a group of CSI (52 in total ) arrived from holland are in Aruba to work on the case. (secret mission)

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2787.msg379191#msg379191


CapsLockWizard
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #770 9/20/08 through
« Reply #307 on: September 23, 2008, 12:09:15 AM »

If they didn't search the pond, who did?

They did search the pond on otfer of Hans Mos. Hans even give Order to DOW. (department of Public work) to clean it up and to put a chain around the entrance with a sing saying "No Traspassing " "Verboeden Toegang"

Now after the side scan, John was coordinating with the the OM and ALE to arrange to Pump it emty, but the OM did not lift a finger.
then the OM put a sign and make it prohibid to go to the area.
then when it was dried, the OM stop all activities that where scheduled on the scoccer field and moved them to other fields.

then in the wee hours in the mornings for 3 nights the light where on and from good source the message was clear, it is being search when everyone was as sleep.

Then the ligths never came on anymore. and the soccer ares is almost not used.

hope to clear this fact up.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=3390.msg466527#msg466527


KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman - 04/07/08: There are 18 targets. Two are definitely tires. The rest, who knows. It's likely tin cans, mud clumps, and debris. There is one small box-like target but it's only 2ft across and doesn't have much relief, unless it's completely sunk into the mud (likely). I can find something about the size of a hockey puck with that system in good conditions. The water was very shallow when this survey was done. Remember, in February 2006 the pond was almost dry.

Kyle Kingman - 06/13/08:   I haven't talked to John since he left for Aruba. I don't see why or how they need John to search the pond unless they were hell bent at only searching the pond for the targets I picked, which is obsurd since the pond is empty.


oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #744 3/19 -
« Reply #461 on: March 20, 2008, 06:48:10 PM »

I personally don't like draining ponds unless absolutely necessary.  The larger the body or water the more cost-effective and efficient a side scan sonar is.  A scanning sonar can be used in smaller ponds.  TES now has connections with people who can best handle this type of search in my opinion.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2721.msg367196#msg367196

The quote of March 25, 2009 Jen Hale's telephone interview with Tim Miller appear to be an update of Tim's words with Dana in May, 2008.  However ... Tim Miller denies that an impending ocean search in the waters off Aruba is in the words.

++++++

THE BOAT FROM TRINIDAD - MAY, 2008

klaasend
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #752 5-15-08
« Reply #23 on: May 15, 2008, 08:47:57 PM »

Posted/transcribed by Heli at RU - Tim Miller interview on Dana Pretzer 5/14/08:

Dana Pretzer Show
May 14, 2008

Transcribed from Podcast of the Dana Pretzer Show

Dana:

... Tim, can you give us an update on Natalee? We haven't heard anything for awhile.

Tim:

Well, you know the update on Natalee is we actually, Louis Schaefer the fellow who spent 3/4 of a million dollars on that last search (inaudible) three weeks and we ended up there for three months instead. This thing just went way, way over budget, probably about $1.8 Million.

You know we located something on December 29; it was sent off to the lab. We still don't know exactly what it was. All we know is there was a press conference that said the items that were found inside that crab trap did not match Natalee's DNA. Now does that mean we possibly found somebody else or what? You know, we still don't know but the other side of that, we've also got over 170 targets that were located with the sonar equipment over there. Many of them things are 800 or 900,1,000 feet deep so the plans were the civilian group that was there with their boat, they did an outstanding job if you want to know the truth and how dedicated they were, it's just beyond words but at this point in time they're talking about bringing in a 360 foot boat out of Trinidad that has much larger ROV equipment on it. It actually has saturated air divers that can go down 1,000 feet and send the ROV down to physically look at every objects of those 170+ objects.

I still predict that one of them is going to be Natalee Unfortuntaely the thing that's holding that up is funding. You know, these companies aren't looking to make any money, they're certainly spending money but they, we got to take care of some of their expenses on that kind of stuff.

A lot of things holding that up too is the political, electioneering there's just been hundreds of millions of dollars donated to our politicians out there which is one reason donations aren't coming in. The other reason is the economy is bad in the States right now, so even (inaudible) this is the worst year we went through so far; the country's stuck in recession and organizations like us are not at the top of the pole when it comes to donations, so we're certainly struggling trying to get this together but I know the day will come when we'll get that boat over there.

We don't think any of those 170+ targets are going to go anywhere, so we're still working on that. I know Dave's going to come, we're going to be back in again Dana because I just feel as though one of those targets is Natalee.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2844.msg381821


THE BOAT FROM TRINIDAD - MARCH, 2009

Wednesday, March 25, 2009
New search for Natalee Holloway is underway

By Jen Hale
Reporter and weekend anchor
Published: March 25, 2009

Tensions are building between two search parties involved in the search for missing Mountain Brook teen Natalee Holloway.

Right now, private investigator Fred Golba is currently in Aruba, searching a retention pond.

Tim Miller and Texas EquuSearch are planning a deep water search on the ocean floor in the next few months.

They’ve raised $1.5 million dollars to go back to Aruba to finish a search that began last March, then stalled when funding ran out.

Underwater rovers will inspect suspicious containers on the ocean bottom that could hold Natalee’s remains.

“We still have 140 plus targets over there. We’re going to be bringing in a 360 ft boat from Trinidad,“ says Miller.

http://www.nbc13.com/vtm/news/local/article/natalee_holloway_update_potential_problems_for_search_parties_bound_for_aru/65265/


THE DENIAL - MARCH, 2009

Texas Equusearch Dispels Media Reports Concerning Natalle Holloway Case
Posted on 26. Mar, 2009 by Admin, TES in Featured Articles, Press Releases, TES News

Tim Miller of Texas EquuSearch is working hard to dispel media reports concerning the Natalee Holloway case.  Reports have surfaced today that Texas EquuSearch has collected $1.5 million to continue the search for Natalee, which is entirely untrue.

Also untrue is the report that Tim was traveling to Aruba with Fred Golba.  This has not been the first time that media has printed false reports regarding TES cases, to include the Caylee Anthony case.

<snipped>

http://texasequusearch.org/2009/03/hollowaycase/

The following is an audio of the Dana interview with Tim Miller pertaining to an update regarding a current search for a missing Aruban and ... the plans regarding a return to Aruba on board a vessel from Trinidad ... a return to Aruba to dive on the targets that were not investigated prior to the Persistence departure from Aruba.

++++++++

The Dana Pretzer Show On Scared Monkeys Radio - Thursday, May 14, 2008 - Guests Include Susan Murphy Milano, Drew Kesse, Randy Tat, Tim Miller and Judy Cornett

Tim Miller of Texas Equusearch discusses his upcoming trip to Aruba in search of Jose Manuel Vicenzo Tromp, missing since November 27, 2007

http://scaredmonkeysradio.com/2008/05/13/the-dana-pretzer-show-on-scared-monkeys-radio-listen-live-wednesday-night-at-9pm-eastern-guests-include-susan-murphy-milano-drew-kesse-and-randy-tat/

The following is the link to a full transcript of the above interview between Dana and Tim Miller.

+++++++

klaasend
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #752 5-15-08
« Reply #23 on: May 15, 2008, 08:47:57 PM »

Posted/transcribed by Heli at RU - Tim Miller interview on Dana Pretzer 5/14/08:

Dana Pretzer Show
May 14, 2008

Transcribed from Podcast of the Dana Pretzer Show

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2844.msg381821

Jen Hale's quote of Tim Miller's words is very specific.  She claims to have a recording of the telephone interview as backup.  However ... Tim Miller issued a denial on his website.

+++++

By Jen Hale
Reporter and weekend anchor
Published: March 25, 2009

Tensions are building between two search parties involved in the search for missing Mountain Brook teen Natalee Holloway.

Right now, private investigator Fred Golba is currently in Aruba, searching a retention pond.

Tim Miller and Texas EquuSearch are planning a deep water search on the ocean floor in the next few months.

They’ve raised $1.5 million dollars to go back to Aruba to finish a search that began last March, then stalled when funding ran out.

Underwater rovers will inspect suspicious containers on the ocean bottom that could hold Natalee’s remains.

“We still have 140 plus targets over there. We’re going to be bringing in a 360 ft boat from Trinidad,“ says Miller.  

http://www.nbc13.com/vtm/news/local/article/natalee_holloway_update_potential_problems_for_search_parties_bound_for_aru/65265/


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #811 3/24/09 -
« Reply #545 on: March 26, 2009, 06:56:43 PM »

Three of our vessels are working on our BP Trinidad project -- the largest project in company history. We expect to keep some of our assets in Trinidad after the BP project is completed around the end of the year, and we have been awarded a project with another E&P company when assets become available. We have established an office in Trinidad to pursue additional work opportunities in the region

http://www.rigzone.com/news/article.asp?a_id=52921

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4743.msg739531;topicseen#msg739531

Could it be that Tim Miller's and Dave Holloway's respective hinky meters are flashing in regards to the distracting roles of both the CapsLockWizard and the pond witness.

++++++

1.  CAPSLOCKWIZARD AND FRED GOLBA CONNECTION?

CapsLockWizard
Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
« Reply #2830 on: February 28, 2008, 04:33:01 AM »

At 9:00 will go over there (Persistence sonar search) to amke sure they do not mis a spot....The sneaker is there....where is the sneaker is the remains.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1952.msg356675;topicseen


Chicopee Man Leading Search for Natalee Holloway
Posted: March 20, 2009 03:20 PM PDT
Updated: March 21, 2009 08:37 AM PDT

Golda plans to comb the Aruban pond for any signs of Natalee's remains or van der Sloot's sneaker.  He says, "I want to stick in my arm from my elbow to my shoulder and feel for bones and Joran's sneaker...If we can find that sneaker in there than that whole pond becomes a crime scene and changes the playing game."

http://www.abc40tv.com/Global/story.asp?S=10045093


2.  THE POND WITNESS AND JOSSY MANSUR CONNECTION?

NANCY GRACE
New Search in Natalee Holloway Disappearance
Aired March 23, 2009 - 20:00:00   ET

JOSSY MANSUR, OWNER, "DIARIO": Because the Aruban government has always based itself on the recommendations of the prosecution, and the only thing that the prosecution wants to do is close this case, Nancy.

GRACE: Why, Jossy? I don`t understand. Why is the Aruban government so hell-bent on closing this case without a resolution? This witness, to my understanding, has passed not one but two independent polygraphs. He even identifies the make and model of the vehicle, which goes back to Daddy, Paulus Van Der Sloot, a red Jeep. Why is the Aruban government ignoring this?

MANSUR: I don`t know why. But we will have to ask them to answer that question. But I know this man, the witness, very well. I`ve known him for a long time. And I believe in what he says, especially after whatever he said was confirmed  by two polygraph tests which he passed brilliantly.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0903/23/ng.01.html


Natalee Holloway Investigation: Exclusive … Tim Miller of Texas EquuSearch in Aruba to meet With ALE/Prosecutor … New Witness That Puts Joran & Paulus Van der Sloot Near Ponds on 5/30/05

Diario
Jossy Mansur

Even though Prosecutor Mr. Mos and also the Van Der Sloot family,
want to or not, this gives a complete turnaround in the whole
investigation. Today    DIARIO focuses on the first part of the
declaration of the witness. What is being published today is what the
local authority (e.o. Prosecutor Mos) know from him, since they have
his signed declaration.

But the next publication which will appear in the DIARIO, will
reveal more than the authorities in Aruba know. This is something that
the local witness did not dare tell the local detectives nor to the
prosecution that received him in the beginning. He was too afraid to
do so. But, to the Americans he did give his complete declaration, and he passed a Lie-Detector test in the United States to prove that he was telling the truth.

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2008/09/10/natalee-holloway-investigation-exclusive-tim-miller-of-texas-equusearch-in-aruba-to-meet-with-aleprosecutor-new-witness-that-puts-joran-paulus-van-der-sloot-near-ponds-on-53005/


2.  DAVE HOLLOWAY - NO FAITH IN POND SEARCH?

Published: March 24, 2009 11:17 pm         
Search for Holloway continues
Father trying to cover all the possibilities
By Brian Livingston

Holloway said he had been waiting for the water level of the retention pond to go down before commissioning this latest search.

"I told the prosecutor I didn't have a great deal of confidence in this latest search,"  said Holloway. "But the pond is scheduled to be dredged soon and I was concerned if she is there then the dredging may destroy any hopes of finding her. The bottom line is you never know and I didn't want to say later on that, 'maybe I should have at least tried.'"

http://www.meridianstar.com/local/local_story_084001809.html


Published: March 24, 2009 11:17 pm         
Search for Holloway continues
Father trying to cover all the possibilities
By Brian Livingston

Dave Holloway, the father of missing teenager Natalee Holloway who disappeared four years ago while on a senior trip to Aruba, said Tuesday morning he really doesn't think his daughter's body will be found during this latest search.

But he didn't want to spend the rest of his life wondering, "what if" either.

"The guy whose claims prompted this latest search at the pond has been bugging me for some time," said Holloway of Meridian. "He is convinced he saw something and he passed not one but two polygraph tests conducted by reputable technicians. Now, I'm not really sure just how accurate polygraph tests are  but I kept thinking, 'what if he is right.' I just couldn't see any reason why he would lie about what he believed he saw."

http://www.meridianstar.com/local/local_story_084001809.html


3.  TIM MILLER - NO FAITH IN THE POND SEARCH?

Texas Equusearch Dispels Media Reports Concerning Natalle Holloway Case
Posted on 26. Mar, 2009 by Admin, TES in Featured Articles, Press Releases, TES News

Tim Miller of Texas EquuSearch is working hard to dispel media reports concerning the Natalee Holloway case.  Reports have surfaced today that Texas EquuSearch has collected $1.5 million to continue the search for Natalee, which is entirely untrue.

Also untrue is the report that Tim was traveling to Aruba with Fred Golba.  This has not been the first time that media has printed false reports regarding TES cases, to include the Caylee Anthony case.

<snipped>

http://texasequusearch.org/2009/03/hollowaycase/

THE POND WITNESS - THE POLYGRAPH

TIM MILLER

Natalee Holloway Investigation: Exclusive … Tim Miller of Texas EquuSearch in Aruba to meet With ALE/Prosecutor … New Witness That Puts Joran & Paulus Van der Sloot Near Ponds on 5/30/05
September 10, 2008

We just recieved a call from Tim Miller of Texas Equusearch. Tim is presently in Aruba and planning to meet with the Aruban prosecutor and the ALE. It appears that there is a new witness that has come forward that has placed Joran Van der Sloot in wet and muddy clothing out at 4:00am on 5/30/05. The 48 year old Aruban witness also places Paulus Van der Sloot at the scene picking up Joran in a red jeep.

Why is this witness potentially credible? The Aruban passed two polygraph tests in Houston, TX on August 5, 2008. The tests were performed by John Swartz of John Swartz & Associates, International Polygraph Examiners. The 48 year old Aruba, name withheld for obvious reasons, went to police early on in the investigation; however, was not taken seriously.

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2008/09/10/natalee-holloway-investigation-exclusive-tim-miller-of-texas-equusearch-in-aruba-to-meet-with-aleprosecutor-new-witness-that-puts-joran-paulus-van-der-sloot-near-ponds-on-53005/


Search for Natalee Holloway:Tim Miller of Texas EquuSearch … New Witness in Aruba, Discusions with Prosecutor Hans Mos & Polygraph Exams

Why does Aruba after all this time and bad PR still not want to cooperate and find Natalee Holloway?
September 12, 2008

Tim Miller met with Aruban Prosecutor Hans Mos to discuss and show Mos in person the results of the polygraph exams conducted in Houston, TX.  Miller discussed with Mos the new witness who had come forward and the fact that the 48 year old witness had passed two polygraph exams. However, Hans Mos was quick to point out to Tim Miller that polygraph tests are not looked upon favorably or have much credibility in Aruba.

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2008/09/12/search-for-natalee-hollowaytim-miller-of-texas-equusearch-new-witness-in-aruba-discusions-with-proecutor-hans-mos-polygraph-exams/


HANS MOS

January 6, 2009
Press Anouncement
Ladies and gentlemen!

Hans Mos:

This witness has turned himself to Dave Holloway, as we have been told. He has given a new statement and has undergone a lie detector test. According to the summary of the lie detector test results (a full report, as promised to my Office by Tim Miller was never received) the witness was considered to be reliable. This Office never questioned the reliability of what the witness claimed to have seen. Yet, the value of his statement in the reconstruction of facts of that night is very limited. With his sole statement this case could never be solved.

http://gretawire.foxnews.com/2009/01/06/aruba-prosecutor-5-page-letter-dont-miss-the-part-where-he-trashes-fox-and-menever-dull/

On the TES website ... Tim Miller has refered to the following articles of Jen Hale as false reporting.  However ... Jen Hale stands by the article and cites telephone recordings as backup.

++++++++

Wednesday, March 25, 2009
New search for Natalee Holloway is underway

By Jen Hale
Reporter and weekend anchor
Published: March 24, 2009

This is Fred Golba on Tuesday, searching a retention pond near the hotel where Natalee Holloway was staying on her senior trip to Aruba in May of 2005.

A new witness says - the night Natalee disappeared - he saw main suspect Joran van der Sloot emerge from the pond -  wet, missing one shoe.

Sources on the island also say Texas EquuSearch’s Tim Miller is now en route to Aruba to help.

Natalee’s father Dave Holloway paid to send Golba and his cadaver dog to Aruba after the witness passed a polygraph test while explaining what he witnessed the night Natalee vanished. 

Aruban prosecutors believe the witness saw someone near the pond the night Natalee disappeared, but they don’t believe it was van der Sloot or anyone related to Natalee’s disappearance.

http://www.nbc13.com/vtm/news/local/article/new_search_for_natalee_holloway_is_underway/65059/


Natalee Holloway update: potential problems for search parties bound for Aruba

By Jen Hale
Reporter and weekend anchor
Published: March 25, 2009

Tensions are building between two search parties involved in the search for missing Mountain Brook teen Natalee Holloway.

Right now, private investigator Fred Golba is currently in Aruba, searching a retention pond.

Tim Miller and Texas EquuSearch are planning a deep water search on the ocean floor in the next few months.

They’ve raised $1.5 million dollars to go back to Aruba to finish a search that began last March, then stalled when funding ran out.

Underwater rovers will inspect suspicious containers on the ocean bottom that could hold Natalee’s remains.

“We still have 140 plus targets over there. We’re going to be bringing in a 360 ft boat from Trinidad,“ says Miller.

http://www.nbc13.com/vtm/news/local/article/natalee_holloway_update_potential_problems_for_search_parties_bound_for_aru/65265/


Texas Equusearch Dispels Media Reports Concerning Natalee Holloway Case
Posted on 26. Mar, 2009 by Admin, TES in Featured Articles, Press Releases, TES News

Tim Miller of Texas EquuSearch is working hard to dispel media reports concerning the Natalee Holloway case.  Reports have surfaced today that Texas EquuSearch has collected $1.5 million to continue the search for Natalee, which is entirely untrue.

Also untrue is the report that Tim was traveling to Aruba with Fred Golba.  This has not been the first time that media has printed false reports regarding TES cases, to include the Caylee Anthony case.

“This is the worst year financially for Texas EquuSearch since it began.  We are struggling on a daily basis to try to meet the needs of families across the country that are begging for help.  In these tough economic times, this false, irresponsible reporting could have a very negative impact on our ability to raise funds which go to serve families of the missing” said Miller.  “When the public hear that we have raised that large amount of money to dedicate to one search, they are not going to be willing to donate to our cause of finding missing people.  We are at a point of not being able to support the families that really need us, and when something like this happens, it is just devastating”. “We would not even attempt to raise that amount of money for just one case with so many families awaiting our help.

The first quarter of the year is always difficult in financial terms. With the current economic situation that everyone is facing, Texas EquuSearch is finding that people are having a harder time finding ways to donate to us.  So far, in 2009, we have had over 20 cases and have several searches pending better weather conditions.

Anyone wishing to donate to our organization can do so using the PayPal button located on the home page and at http://texasequusearch.org/make-a-donation/ .  We are a 501(c)(3) charitable organization funded solely by donations and your donation is tax deductible, in accordance with IRS laws.

http://texasequusearch.org/2009/03/hollowaycase/

In May, 2008 Tim Miller implied that a continued ocean search for Natalee Holloway's remains was where it was at.

When it is considered that the contents of the trap which ... according to the analysis of Kyle Kingman ... imply may have been Natalee Holloway's remains ... why would Tim Miller embark on another huge undertaking?

When it is considered that ... according to the analysis of Kyle Kingman ... there is nothing Natalee Holloway case related in the targets which were not investigated ... why Tim Miller embark on another huge undertaking?

++++++

PLANS TO RESUME THE OCEAN SEARCH - MAY, 2008

klaasend
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #752 5-15-08
« Reply #23 on: May 15, 2008, 08:47:57 PM »

Posted/transcribed by Heli at RU - Tim Miller interview on Dana Pretzer 5/14/08:

Dana Pretzer Show
May 14, 2008

Dana:  ... Tim, can you give us an update on Natalee? We haven't heard anything for awhile.

Tim: Well, you know the update on Natalee is we actually, Louis Schaefer the fellow who spent 3/4 of a million dollars on that last search (inaudible) three weeks and we ended up there for three months instead. This thing just went way, way over budget, probably about $1.8 Million.

You know we located something on December 29; it was sent off to the lab. We still don't know exactly what it was. All we know is there was a press conference that said the items that were found inside that crab trap did not match Natalee's DNA. Now does that mean we possibly found somebody else or what? You know, we still don't know but the other side of that, we've also got over 170 targets that were located with the sonar equipment over there. Many of them things are 800 or 900,1,000 feet deep so the plans were the civilian group that was there with their boat, they did an outstanding job if you want to know the truth and how dedicated they were, it's just beyond words but at this point in time they're talking about bringing in a 360 foot boat out of Trinidad that has much larger ROV equipment on it. It actually has saturated air divers that can go down 1,000 feet and send the ROV down to physically look at every objects of those 170+ objects.

I still predict that one of them is going to be Natalee Unfortuntaely the thing that's holding that up is funding. You know, these companies aren't looking to make any money, they're certainly spending money but they, we got to take care of some of their expenses on that kind of stuff.

A lot of things holding that up too is the political, electioneering there's just been hundreds of millions of dollars donated to our politicians out there which is one reason donations aren't coming in. The other reason is the economy is bad in the States right now, so even (inaudible) this is the worst year we went through so far; the country's stuck in recession and organizations like us are not at the top of the pole when it comes to donations, so we're certainly struggling trying to get this together but I know the day will come when we'll get that boat over there.

We don't think any of those 170+ targets are going to go anywhere, so we're still working on that. I know Dave's going to come, we're going to be back in again Dana because I just feel as though one of those targets is Natalee.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2844.msg381821


KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman:  It's unanimous that Tim M. should never have told Dave and Beth anything about the trap until it's contents were forensically examined.  After the diver visual inspection of the trap he was obligated to report what the Aruban divers reported  because although limited, it's the only information he had and the family rightfully wanted answers. It was a royal mess. I took a lot of heat for telling Tim Miller anything about the trap that may have prompted him to making the calls to the family. In my defence, I specifically told Tim not to tell anyone about the trap until the contents are analysed. He couldn't wait. He was very emotional, hopeful, and confident. It was a crushing time for all. Most of all- for Tim Miller, Dave, and Beth. This was Dec 30th.

Kyle Kingman:  On the night of the 30th (I believe this was Tim's last night on the Persistence) I approached Tim and proposed some ideas to him. I suggested that we shouldn't take the Aruban Polis divers at their word and proceed with planning a recovery of the trap. Also, I proposed the trap site may not be pristine or the Polis may have already knew about it. This statement was backed up by several comments we heard, behavior we observed, and other things. Tim told me he thought I was right but didn't know what to do about it.

Kyle Kingman: I know Tim believed me and was convinced 100% which is why he went and told Dave that we found Natalee on Dec 29th. John stood back and waited and worked with the Aruban Polis to arrange the next dive -Dec 30th's which was the visual-only dive. John told me then he didn't want to hear me ever mention the trap again. Of course this didn't set well with me.

Kyle Kingman: The logs are in a safe somewhere. John and Ryan Poff (one of John's project managers) knows where it is. I can't get copies of the logs at this time. Perhaps in a few months. The target locations are in the safe, although I also have them in a safe spot.  I don't care about the other targets though. I don't think any of it is of any potential interest. Mainly junk, coral, and debris.


The search for Natalee Holloway
TRANSCRIPT
By Chris Hansen
Correspondent
NBC News
updated 5:20 p.m. PT, Fri., Feb. 22, 2008

Tim Miller: It looked like a skull. Still looks like a skull.  ... In my years of searching we have seen several bodies, skeletal remains--I have seen my own daughter's skeletal remains. I can’t help but believe at this moment that that is human remains in that crab trap.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23301056/page/4/

According to Kyle Kingman ... the draining of a body of water should only be done once targets of interest have been identified.  He upheld the May, 2008 draining when he was under the impression it had everything to do with the Natalee Holloway case.

+++++++

exploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #744 3/19 -
« Reply #461 on: March 20, 2008, 06:48:10 PM »

I personally don't like draining ponds unless absolutely necessary.  The larger the body or water the more cost-effective and efficient a side scan sonar is.  A scanning sonar can be used in smaller ponds.  TES now has connections with people who can best handle this type of search in my opinion.  I think you're on the right track and I wish you and the family well.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2721.msg367196;topicseen#msg367196


oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #751 5/8 -
« Reply #581 on: May 14, 2008, 06:23:17 PM »

My understanding is the pond draining was absolutely necessary.  The purpose for the sonar search in the pond was to build a case to drain it.  Apparently there was enough interest to go ahead with it. We'll see how it goes.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2830.msg381300;topicseen#msg381300


Published: March 24, 2009 11:17 pm         
Search for Holloway continues
Father trying to cover all the possibilities
By Brian Livingston

Holloway said he had been waiting for the water level of the retention pond to go down before commissioning this latest search.

"I told the prosecutor I didn't have a great deal of confidence in this latest search," said Holloway. "But the pond is scheduled to be dredged soon and I was concerned if she is there then the dredging may destroy any hopes of finding her. The bottom line is you never know and I didn't want to say later on that, 'maybe I should have at least tried.'"

http://www.meridianstar.com/local/local_story_084001809.html


(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b258/texasmom55/HollowayCaseNews1/03272009Awe24_3_1238201405.jpg)

Credit: texasmom

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman:  I couldn't agree more. It was wrong to sit on the footage. I did everything I could to get them out and get them to Beth. Imagine how I felt having found the trap. I was told to move forward and to forget about the trap. I was told not to show anyone the images. I got around this through Tim Trahan. It took months. The only way I felt I could do anything was through here. I hoped through here that at least the images could get to Beth. Fortunately Tim said I could send them to her.

Credit:  Kermit

Holloway Cover-up By Aruban Law Enforcement?
Friday, December 05, 2008

VAN SUSTEREN: In the conversation that we had with Joran, he claims that the voice on the tape is his father. And obviously the prosecutor could prove that or disprove that. He could use subpoena power and do that. We can't get a first-generation tape from his father and do that.

Is it likely that the prosecutor will do that? Because, frankly, if it turns out that is his voice, his father under what he said is up to his eyeballs in something.

MANSUR: Of course. We know he was involved from the beginning. And after the new wave of things(ph), Mr. Herman, who saw Joran walking with his clothes all muddy. And then later he was saw him in the car with Paulus van der Sloot.

And we assume, and it has been certified by this man that the man who took Joran van der Sloot to his home that night after Natalee disappeared was his father. So he was involved from the beginning.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,462349,00.html

FTA

Aruban Workers' Federation

Federación de Trabajadores Arubanos
 
Country
Aruba
 
Affiliation
ITUC

Key people
José Rodolfo Geerman, president
Juan Giron, secretary general
 
Office location San Nicolas, Aruba

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federaci%C3%B3n_de_Trabajadores_Arubanos

LIST OF WORKERS’ ORGANIZATIONS IN THE CARIBBEAN REGION

ARUBA

Federacion di Trahadornan di Aruba
(F.T.A.)
Bernhardstraat 23
San Nicholas
President: Mr. Jose R. Geerman
Vice President: Mrs. Jane Braafhart
Tel. 297-584-5448
Fax. 297-584-5504
E-mail: fetraua@setarnet.aw
federacion@hotmail.com

http://www.ilocarib.org.tt/portal/images/stories/contenido/pdf/WorkersActivities/caribbean-unions.pdf

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman: Eduardo Mansur owns Benny Hannas (sp) and Hooters and perhaps others.. but he spends a lot of his time working with Diario for obvious reasons. He spends a lot of time in Bolivia and traveling around the US which he loves. He's got a beautiful F-250 truck and adores his two kids

Helen Werleman
LA CABANA BRC
PHONE & EMAIL DIRECTORY
http://www.lacabanabrc.com/members/directory.shtml

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman: 04/07/08:  The odd thing, is that he is being highly inconsistent. What he says with me in private and what he says to others, particularly in public (press, meetings, and recently on BFN) is completely different. In early February I told John that I believed we were being played as puppets, and being purposefully kept in the dark about the investigation after the Jan-7th dive. I also told him that I thought the trap was case significant and that an internal investigation on both the suspects and those involved in the investigation was inevitable, and likely going on behind the scenes even while we continued searching. He took a couple weeks, and came to me and said that he agreed after a meeting with Mos and Richardson!!!

Kyle Kingman - 04/07/08:  A few minutes ago I got another inquiry from Aruba about the pond sonar targets. This is good news. This suggests they are actively working on the case and interested in searching this pond real soon.


HOTSHOT

Hotshot
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #783 12/6/08 -
« Reply #853 on: December 08, 2008, 07:05:43 PM »

I have spoken to Mr Silvetti twice.  And that was only to see if he wanted help with the pond and the search.  I would have gone to help.  do i know him personally, no.  The only information i know is from kyle or dave.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4216.msg571886#msg571886


Hotshot
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
« Reply #687 on: December 04, 2008, 10:42:20 PM »

Yes the message written to him was about the dunes, it had nothing to do with anything here.

Yes, I did get Caps to go down and try to get help for the Monserat Pond.

No John does not believe that there is remains in the cage.  You have to remember something here, it was Johns money who got the Persistence there, he may have been on the ship, but he was NOT one of the workers, sort to speak.  I have spoken to John yes.
 
Yes, I believe some of Kermits stuff, but not all.  I don't believe posting others emails are necessary to get things across, that is just not proper.  I don't believe in her gloating over nothing.  And I don't give a rats butt as to what Kyle was bragging about.  I am sure the FBI got all of what they needed and more.  Not that they can do anything anyway, and we all know this already.  It's been hashed over way too many times here.
 
Yes, I believe there are some remains in that cage.

Can I discuss the other stuff ?  I don't dare to.  It is what someone has trusted me with, and the last time I did that, not only did people here not believe me, but I got thrown out.  That person in time will tell all, and not until things are in place to talk about it.  However the time does look like its coming soon, and it does look like the Government may crumble, as it should after what we all know happened with the cover up.
 
Kermit, as I said before, I am not going to Duke it out with you here, my email is kathee1963@yahoo.com  you can do it in emails if you wish.  as for this

Today, she agrees that kermit is telling the truth.
Because, Kermit IS telling you the truth.

I wouldn't go that far.  You could have done things in a more professional manner.  After all, you are that correct?  A Professional?

There are things that right now are better off being left unsaid, and you know this, I am sure. Just sit back and let this thing roll, it's all starting to happen.  Relax.

I refuse to believe that Kyle is a bad person.  I refuse to believe John, Schafer, and Tim are bad people.  And i would sure hate to have them read what you have posted here about them.

I personally have met with Tim, and Schafer way back in Jan of 2006 back when they were trying to get things going with the Persistence, and getting the OK to go to Aruban waters.  It was several of us that met with them.  So its not like they lost their monies back in 2006 and waited till almost 2008 to scan for oil, etc....  They were waiting to get the OK from Aruba.  And we all know how long they can take.  Schafer is a Seaman, John is not.  Tim is not, he helps in anyway he can to search for the missing, and if that means on a ship, then so be it.

Either way here, it all comes down to one girl, and that is Natalee, they all came together for Natalee.  Not themselves.  There is always one bad apple in a group, I am not saying that "there was", but IF pics were truly going to be sold for his own purpose "other then the film crew that were on the boat", then shame on him.  I just really don't want to think that is true.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4186.msg566913;topicseen#msg566913


Hotshot
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #777 11/21/08 thru
« Reply #258 on: November 22, 2008, 02:53:44 AM »

CAPS knows Silvetti from me  Silvetti did do the pond and then they wouldnt let him back in after all the maps were made of the pond.  About Jossy, i know nothing about that.  I was the one who told CAPS to go to the ship and wait for John.  And I do know who CAPS is.  This boat that may have taken the trap away, if anything was the Gottenbos boat.  I too feel that they have what they needed to bring home, and thats why we hear nothing.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4159.240


Hotshot
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #298 on: November 27, 2008, 03:57:50 PM »

I don't agree with ALE having all the evidence, however the persistance did tape who and what took all the baggies.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.280
 

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman:  I think it is highly unlikely and completely inconsistent with numerous testimonies and other evidence that the pond (or anything but the ocean) contains Natalee's remains. The witness claims to have seen a muddy Joran coming out of the Monserat pond after disposing of her body. I think it is very possible that Joran may have disposed of some evidence in the pond, but as far as remains... unlikely.

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman: The pond witness talked to John about what he saw that night. Our search was based on that information.

KYLE KINGMAN - QUALIFICATIONS


Kingman Geophysical Solutions
Innovative solutions in ocean exploration. Specializing in Marine GIS, side scan sonar interp and processing, magnetometer/gradiometer processing, hydrographic surveys, project management, reporting, and charting.

Saturday, March 21, 2009


 Kingman Geophysical Solutions is a consulting geophysical engineering sole proprietorship specializing in managing marine geophysical projects from conception to completion. KGS provides Geological, Geophysical, Marine GIS and Hydrographic survey consultancy services to multiple domestic and international offshore industries and governments.

KGS, owned and operated by Kyle Kingman, is recognized by the Society of Industry Leaders as a leader and pioneer in the new field of marine GIS and advanced marine magnetic detection and imaging.
KGS provides both innovative and industry proven solutions for geophysical, geological and hydrographic survey companies who seek efficient and cost effective turn-around from data acquisition to a finalized report and product.

Services Include:

Project Management
-On site project management from conception to completion.

Processing, Interpretation, and Reporting

-Side scan sonar processing, mosaicing, and analysis for all types of geophysical surveys.

-Shallow seismic processing and interpretation for geological and geotechnical assessment, sediment volume estimates, depth of burial, shallow gas, fault mapping, submarine geohazard evaluation.

-Advanced magnetometer and gradiometer data processing and analysis for locating submarine utilities, obstructions, debris detection, mine detection, UXO, or archaeological findings.

-Multibeam and single beam sonar charting, bathymetric contouring, slope stability analysis, route generation, slope maps, aspect maps, and other cartography.

Client Representing

-Provides client representative services ensuring geophysical survey data quality and suitability, GIS and chart data quality, enforce proper safety and environment (HSE) procedures, real-time route engineering on-site or onboard, and provides live feeds back to the office.
Marine GIS

-ArcInfo GIS –based solutions combining geological, geophysical and geographical information to solve complex problems often in real time.
-Cartography and charting of marine survey data

-Real-time tracking of vessels, ROVs, AUVs and sea-plows, in a GIS environment during installations, inspections, burials, removals, etc. enabling critical real-time command and engineering decisions based on all the relevant information  

Kyle Kingman has successfully played an important role in the following project types:

Pre-lay and post-lay pipeline and cable route surveys (both fiber optic and HVDC), subsea damage assessments, site surveys, rig placement, submarine utility locating, PLEM, and other energy related surveys, LNG deep water and shallow water terminals, hazard and risk assessments, wreck location and investigations, offshore wind farms, deep water excavations, and more.

For more information contact: Kyle Kingman - oceanexploration@gmail.com

More:
http://geosolutions.blogspot.com/

Kyle Kingman failed to realize when he made the decision to backtrack on his initial honorable intentions to expose the deception of John Silvetti who was project lead on the Persistence ... a private research group that was dedicated to expose the Aruban coverup agenda that has prevented justice from prevail for Natalee Holloway since May 30, 2005 was not about to sit on info which revealed an American's involvement in furthering that coverup agenda.

Janet

+++++++

KYLE KINGMANS OWN WORDS - JUG TWITTY
 
ldstlou
Re: The Cage « Reply #157 on: March 19, 2009, 12:25:09 pm »

The last posts are taken from the e-mail that Kyle sent to Jug and I in December …

Kyle Kingman: I had questions which were very unsettling about what I had observed during the search including the events surrounding the trap inspection by the Aruban divers and how the samples were handled by ALE - solely Richardson. This made me very uneasy. It was unsettling and I had no one to talk about it with. The Freebird forum was a place where I could safely discuss the unsettling aspects of the search and see if there were any connections. I only did so after the group agreed that nothing would leave the forum. I never wished for any of it to leave the forum.

Kyle Kingman: I didn't dodge questions. I didn't have this information. I disappeared from the board because I was working offshore of Norway in the North Sea and also in remote places in North Africa and Egypt. I was gone from July through September. When I came back, I logged into the forum and saw they were about to release this grand document containing basically everything I said or posted. Much of it I knew was incorrect and based on opinion. I didn't agree with this, knowing it was inaccurate and also it was understood that nothing I posted was to be made public. They pressured me to change my mind and I wouldn't.
 
Kyle Kingman:  I didn't threaten any of them. I said that I personally didn't want to get sued for breaking a confidentiality agreement with information ending up on the Internet. Them pushing it all out put me at risk legally and jeopardized my relationship with John (which is now destroyed over this). Also, this information did not belong posted on the Internet in the first place. It was a huge naive misjudgement on my part to trust this group enough to share it in confidence.
 
http://goldmonkey.org/index.php?topic=980.msg12191#msg12191

Credit: Lifesong
 
 
KYLE KINGMAN’S OWN WORDS - NATALEE FREEBIRDS

Document
 
Kyle Kingman - 03/20/08: Since I got the go ahead from Tim (T), we can legally move forward. The document should follow-up the screen shots and trap content description. We can sent the document after the initial dialog. I trust then she (Beth) will be interested in the document.  

The contents of the document should be discussed and agreed upon by the birds. Since I'm new here, I should take a back seat to this IMO. I would think it would be a case synthesis which culminates with the trap contents and lack of interest and motivation to fully process the site. Perhaps Beth will then use the document to create the proper motivation using the information to apply political pressure from both sides. The problem I ran into earlier with the FBI was that their hands are tied to do anything unless they're invited to the party. I think political pressure properly applied will ensure an invite to the party. Thoughts?

Title - perhaps "Case Synthesis and Search Results", or something to that effect.

 
Network Deals:
 
Kyle Kingman 06/10/08:  Well, it's all going to happen. The big card will soon be played. I just had a secret meeting with Tim Trahan and by proxy, Louis Shafer. Tomorrow, Tim Trahan will get in touch with Beth Holloway in regards to the trap footage and missing evidence. We're getting geared up to play the conspiracy cover-up card on Aruba and force the bogus investigation out into the open. We believe the trap footage may be the missing piece which will raise a BIG question in the minds of the public everywhere.  We're in the process of figuring out how to produce and spin the story most accurately and most effectively. Also, and completely independant and unrelated, John will be in Aruba tomorrow and will report soon. This is a different issue. He knows nothing of what we're about to do with the footage.

Kyle Kingman states in an email to Jug Twitty and ldstlou that Tim Miller left the Persistence "on his own terms" on the day following the December 30th visual dive.  However ... according to Kyle Kingman's own words to the Natalee's Freebirds ... John Silvetti wanted Tim Miller off the Persistence ... he had become a liability.

Considering Tim Miller's suspicions regarding the claims of the Aruban divers that nothing Natalee Holloway case related was found in the trap ... could it be that the Costa Rica tip was a fabricated diversion and ... Tim Miller was under the false impression that he left the Persistence on "his own terms"?
 
Janet

++++++++


KYLE KINGMAN - JUG TWITTY

ldstlou
Re: The Cage « Reply #157 on: March 19, 2009, 12:25:09 pm »

The last posts are taken from the e-mail that Kyle sent to Jug and I in December ...

Kyle Kingman:  Tim Miller went to Nicaragua on his own terms and Dateline followed him. Tim was chasing down the Nicaraguan lead. He wasn't removed from the Persistence.

http://goldmonkey.org/index.php?topic=980.msg12191#msg12191


KYLE KINGMAN - NATALEE'S FREEBIRDS

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman:  This occurred on Dec 30th when the Arubans told us there wasn't anything of interest in the trap based on the visual-only inspection (Dateline and Tim Miller present). After the Dec 30th dive John didn't want Tim Miller on board the Persistence because he said Tim wasn't necessary any more and was a liability. I don't know what that exactly means, but Tim wasn't hurting anything except releasing the statements to the press and Holloways that we found Natalee. Although likely true, it was premature and should have been replaced with action- seeing that the evidence was collected and handled properly.

I know Tim believed me and was convinced 100% which is why he went and told Dave that we found Natalee on Dec 29th. John stood back and waited and worked with the Aruban Polis to arrange the next dive -Dec 30th's which was the visual-only dive.

On the night of the 30th (I believe this was Tim's last night on the Persistence) I approached Tim and proposed some ideas to him. I suggested that we shouldn't take the Aruban Polis divers at their word and proceed with planning a recovery of the trap. Also, I proposed the trap site may not be pristine or the Polis may have already knew about it. This statement was backed up by several comments we heard, behavior we observed, and other things. Tim told me he thought I was right but didn't know what to do about it. I hadn't slept in 48 hours. I crashed for a few hours rest and by the time I got up Dateline and Tim Miller had left the boat. That is when John assumed full control over the remainder of the project and had us searching in the deepest portions of our search area which coincided with Richardson's remarks. Richardson told us after the Jan-7th dive to keep searching in deep water. John told me then he didn't want to hear me ever mention the trap again. Of course this didn't set well with me. After the Jan 7th Dive I got off the boat for R&R from the 9th-14th at the Holiday Inn.

Remember after the Jan-7th dive which sampled the trap Richardson told John emphatically to "keep searching she's still out there in the deep ocean". Meanwhile I'm standing on the beach watching the Dutch Coast Guard at the trap site for 42 and 45 minutes respectively over two days (11-12th). When I got back to the Hotel on the 11th and 12th after seeing the coasties out there I told John. He didn't want to hear it and didn't believe it. However, a couple weeks later he told me he looked into it by talking to Richardson who said "...not to worry, the Coast Guard doesn't have dive capabilities".

Kyle Kingman: He (Tim Miller) stepped off on or about the 1st of Jan to follow up on the false lead in Costa Rica IIRC.

 
jen 3560
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #815 4/8/09 -
« Reply #745 on: Today at 03:43:54 PM »

This was the day after Kyle joined our forum and shared his initial information with us.  This will also show some of the discussion about keeping this info (at that time) under wraps in case there was really an honest investigation ongoing about what was found ...

Note - the information of Kyle having sent screen shots to the FBI is what we later learned to have been a lie, and also note - that was Kyle's ONLY attempt (that we were told about) of having "sent this information to the FBI".
_______

Kyle Kingman - 03/19/08:

If I were Mos I would have done the following:
 
- Once the Persistence finds the trap, convince them it's nothing significant.  This would calm media pressure and keep the Persistence searching while the investigation continues. No statements needed because this lets the team know it was case significant and of elevated interest.

- While the search continues offshore unabated, process the trap site by a Dutch forensic team and continue getting the investigation buttoned up

- While the forensic results are being processed, keep the search going as a smoke screen. With the Persistence puppet in play, everyone involved is relatively calm knowing that as long as we're searching, nothing significant is found.
 
- Buy as much time as they can using the confession tape to encourage the Persistence to remain searching.

- Dateline opens up a can of worms by showing the public (and the perps) the trap, but claims it was of no interest.
 
- Put out a statement claiming no evidenciary value in the samples.
 
- Continue investigation without media pressure or public outcry.
 
- Once the investigation is complete, get all the authorities in play ready to arrest the whole lot simultaneously.

- Arrest everyone involved then announce the full results.


Kyle Kingman - 03/19/08:

After studying the images, go back to the press release from Hans Mos regarding the trap and ask yourself these questions:

-Does this statement really say anything at all?

-Does the official FBI report say anything at all (verbatim to Mos's release)?

- If the fabric was clearly a blue denim-like fabric (a skirt perhaps) why was the sample compared to Natalee's blouse?
 
- Did the FBI receive this blue fabric or another fabric?
 
- If it was another fabric, was it a fabric sampled from the trap?
 
- Why would the FBI make a statement as they did on the heels of the Dateline special?

The answers to these questions moves this case into three possible directions:

1) The case is currently under investigation and moving towards justice for Natalee. A lot of people will go to prison, but it may take months to complete the investigation from the beginning, including the coverup and investigation. judges...etc.
 
2) The case is currently being professionally covered up and the key evidence is shelved, or destroyed.

3) We have not yet found Natalee and what we found is someone else - but no interest is being demonstrated at finding out who it is.

In my opinion the chances of either above scenario are equally split three ways.


Kyle Kingman - 03/19/08:

I don't have the names of the Aruban divers from the Jan 7th dive, but we should have a record of it. I know two of them, but forget their names. John will know the third diver's name if necessary. I don't recall who all was there on the 7th. The Persistence had no divers on the 7th. Tim Trahan was our diver on the 30th-Dec, but he was out of the country at the time. The Aruban divers were on the police boat, dove from their boat, and returned to their boat.


Kyle Kingman - 03/19/08:

I don't know how this should be handled.
 
- I think the underwater pictures taken by the divers of the samples from the trap would be very useful.
 
- We tried repeatedly for weeks unsecessfully to get an inventory from the FBI. Right before the Dateline special aired we got word (after pressure from C. Rice's office) from the FBI that they were testing the samples, and that HALF the samples were send to the NFI. This contradicted Richardson who said he sent everything to the FBI.

- It would be useful knowing exactly what the FBI tested.
 
- I send the FBI screen shots of the Jan 7th dive and blue fabric with a note asking if they can verify what was sampled versus the fabric pictured. I did not get a response. This was several weeks ago.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4827.msg769334#msg769334

Kyle Kingman's own words posted on the Scared Monkeys' forum attests that the truth is not being related to the Stepfather of Natalee Holloway.  A command of the English language dictates that interpretation is not necessary.

Janet

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KYLE KINGMAN - JUG TWITTY

ldstlou
Re: The Cage « Reply #157 on: March 19, 2009, 12:25:09 pm »

The last posts are taken from the e-mail that Kyle sent to Jug and I in December ...

Kyle Kingman:  I said the FBI did a DNA analysis on the sample they received. They re-interpreted this as having found remains in the trap.

http://goldmonkey.org/index.php?topic=980.msg12191#msg12191


KYLE KINGMAN - SCARED MONKEYS

oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #739 3/3 -
« Reply #332 on: March 04, 2008, 12:21:17 AM »

If you quote me, please include the quote for accuracy.  I never said there were no human remains.  I woudn't comment to that effect.  I have neither confirmed nor denied the issue.  The only comment I said was quoting Tim Trahan.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2668.msg360330#msg360330


oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #743 3/14 -
« Reply #709 on: March 18, 2008, 03:11:50 PM »

As of the 2nd week of Feb, this is what I had learned from the FBI:
The contents of the trap were being actively investigated.  The forensic results of a fabric sample showed the fabric sample was not a match to Natalee's blouse and that no DNA match to Natalee was found within that fabric sample.  Human remains were found, but the FBI was not and would not comment on the case.  The FBI did not comment on the remains, but rather the fabric sample.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2705.msg366289;topicseen#msg366289

In his email to Jug Twitty ... Kyle Kingman attempts to backtrack on his own words submitted to the Natalee's Freebirds in regards to John Silvetti's betrayal.

Hey ... Silvetti's objective and focus should have been justice for Natalee Holloway ... closure for her family and ... accountability to those who prayfully and monetarily upheld the Persistence undertaking to bring Natalee Holloway home ... home to American soil.

Janet

++++++++

KYLE KINGMAN - JUG TWITTY

ldstlou
Re: The Cage « Reply #157 on: March 19, 2009, 12:25:09 pm »

The last posts are taken from the e-mail that Kyle sent to Jug and I in December ...

In December of 2008 Kyle wrote to Jug and I that John had remained "objective and focused" during the cage search.

http://goldmonkey.org/index.php?topic=980.msg12191#msg12191


KYLE KINGMAN - NATALEE'S FREEBIRDS

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman:  John is not a believer in the trap. He took ALE's word as gospel that it wasn't case related, yet never studied the videos or bothered to inquire further. He had plans on doing business with Aruba and in S. America and he didn't want to hurt any feelings by talks hinting at lack of complete trust and friendship. I did not feel the same and we had a major difference in opinion. He was the one who never pressed ALE to be completely open with us with the trap evidence. I would have forced them to. However, John was the one paying my invoices so I was forced to sit back and hope for the best.

Kyle Kingman:  I know John went to Aruba solely to find Natalee. He did make several comments about trying to land some work through contacts he met while in Aruba. This alone isn't a conflict of interest, but it tainted his focus in my opinion. I can't blame him for that, but he did take too much focus off the trap too soon. He claims to know a lot more than I do. I agree, but knowing more information from someone I don't trust is dangerous in my opinion. I'd rather know less lies.

Kyle Kingman:  I havn't heard John mention anything about the pipeline project. If it happens, I hope he's able to do the project. It would be great and his company would be in good position to bid on the job. It wasn't his purpose on going to Aruba.  ... Well, he's a pretty shrewd businessman and usually thinks at least three steps ahead. We'll see how this plays out.

Kyle Kingman:  ... I requested all samples to be brought on board the Persistence for visual and top-side photographs. It was ignored by the project lead (John S.) who felt the Arubans would follow whatever they needed to do as far as proper protocol.

Kyle Kingman:  The Arubans told us there wasn't anything of interest in the trap based on the visual-only inspection (Dateline and Tim Miller present).
 
Kyle Kingman:  John definitely believed the Arubans at their every word.

Kyle Kingman:  I was told to move forward and to forget about the trap. I was told not to show anyone the images.

Kyle Kingman:  I havn't heard John mention anything about the pipeline project. If it happens, I hope he's able to do the project. It would be great and his company would be in good position to bid on the job. It wasn't his purpose on going to Aruba.  ... Well, he's a pretty shrewd businessman and usually thinks at least three steps ahead. We'll see how this plays out.

Following is the actually quote that should have formed part of the above post.

Janet

+++++++

ldstlou
Re: The Cage « Reply #157 on: March 19, 2009, 12:25:09 pm

The last posts are taken from the e-mail that Kyle sent to Jug and I in December

Kyle Kingman:  John wasn't refusing to give it any credence before inspection on Jan 7th, he was remaining objective and keeping focused. I said John wasn't convinced. He wasn't. He said he wouldn't be convinced unless he heard otherwise from the FBI.

http://goldmonkey.org/index.php?topic=980.msg12191#msg12191

In Kyle Kingman's email to Kermit ... the underlying threat of legal action is implied and ... understood perfectly.  However ... the threat is denied by Kyle in his email to Jug Twitty.

Janet

+++++++++

KYLE KINGMAN - JUG TWITTY

ldstlou
Re: The Cage « Reply #157 on: March 19, 2009, 12:25:09 pm »

The last posts are taken from the e-mail that Kyle sent to Jug and I in December

Kyle Kingman:  I didn't threaten any of them. I said that I personally didn't want to get sued for breaking a confidentiality agreement with information ending up on the Internet. Them pushing it all out put me at risk legally and jeopardized my relationship with John (which is now destroyed over this). Also, this information did not belong posted on the Internet in the first place. It was a huge naive misjudgement on my part to trust this group enough to share it in confidence.

http://goldmonkey.org/index.php?topic=980.msg12191#msg12191


KYLE KINGMAN - EMAIL TO KERMIT

Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #786 12/17/08 -
« Reply #540 on: December 19, 2008, 06:15:18 PM »

Kyle sent me this today[/b]

Kermit,
 
You and the others agreed to a statement of confidentiality and nondisclosure at FB.  Before I posted any information, I posted a copyright notice at the very start which disallowed ANY and ALL of my posts, intellectual property, or pictures to leave the spot they were posted.  Everyone, including yourself, acknowledged this affirmatively. A lawyer said that ownership of that posted material cannot be transferred by a general claim of copyright such as a claim made on the front page of a website, or even by verbal consent. Written agreement, meaning a signed agreement, is required for the post to be owned by the site owner. Without a signed agreement, the poster owns the post. I did not give you permission, which I have stated many times when you were in violation. While the rest agreed, you violated this legal agreement repeatedly.  You have taken many of my posts, snipped what you wanted to put them into your context, and then shared them in a public forum.  The "public domain" notion only applies where someone has copyright ownership over the work in the first case and that ownership has lapsed. In that case, all posts can be freely reproduced by anyone, anywhere, without violating copyright law. However, this is clearly not the case.

I will state this with absolute clarity so there is no misunderstanding:
I have confirmed with the FBI on multiple instances that they have had possession of the ROV videos since very early on. I personally didn't send the ROV footage to them because another project lead had already at the first opportunity while we were still in Aruba. I sent all of the ROV screen shots directly to the FBI the day they were acquired.

I also got confirmation back in February by Tim Trahan who was in constant contact with Beth during the search that she indeed had all the information including the statements and has seen the ROV videos. I personally confirmed all of this with the senior FBI agent in charge of the investigation as well as given him my personal account of all that I witnessed and knew. They have this on record.  Birmingham is not the office in charge.
 
The information you have been spreading is not only inaccurate and a violation of a non-disclosure, it is slanderous and spreading misinformation. The damage it has done to my professional relationship with J. Silvetti is incalculable which has a direct effect on my ability to provide for my family, which includes my daughter named after Natalee.
 
I have neither publicly responded to your provocative antics, or retaliated with personal attacks in response to yours. I also have never threatened you as you publicly claimed.
 
I recently asked the senior FBI agent in charge how I should handle this situation which you have incited.   I thought his response was terrific. He replied: "Just sit back and keep quiet.  Kermit doesn't matter".

So this is exactly what I've done. I wrote this letter to you as a gesture of courtesy in hopes it would save you from further embarrassment from those who actually know something about this case.  I'm not referring to myself, rather the family and lead investigators who are out legitimately investigating this case in pursuit of justice right to the top.
 
Sincerely,
 Kyle

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4246.msg592482;topicseen#msg592482

All of the following Kyle Kingmans quotes to Jug Twitty in a December, 2008 email are challenged in the above posts.

Janet

+++++++

ldstlou
Re: The Cage « Reply #157 on: March 19, 2009, 12:25:09 pm »

The last posts are taken from the e-mail that Kyle sent to Jug and I in December ... 

Some exerts:

Quote
I had questions which were very unsettling about what I had observed during the search including the events surrounding the trap inspection by the Aruban divers and how the samples were handled by ALE - solely Richardson. This made me very uneasy. It was unsettling and I had no one to talk about it with. The Freebird forum was a place where I could safely discuss the unsettling aspects of the search and see if there were any connections. I only did so after the group agreed that nothing would leave the forum. I never wished for any of it to leave the forum.

Quote
About half of what said was opinion, which I clearly stated. They used a lot of my words taken out of context and confused opinions with facts.

Quote
I didn't dodge questions. I didn't have this information. I disappeared from the board because I was working offshore of Norway in the North Sea and also in remote places in North Africa and Egypt. I was gone from July through September. When I came back, I logged into the forum and saw they were about to release this grand document containing basically everything I said or posted. Much of it I knew was incorrect and based on opinion. I didn't agree with this, knowing it was inaccurate and also it was understood that nothing I posted was to be made public. They pressured me to change my mind and I wouldn't.

Quote
I didn't threaten any of them. I said that I personally didn't want to get sued for breaking a confidentiality agreement with information ending up on the Internet. Them pushing it all out put me at risk legally and jeopardized my relationship with John (which is now destroyed over this). Also, this information did not belong posted on the Internet in the first place. It was a huge naive misjudgement on my part to trust this group enough to share it in confidence.

Quote
I said the FBI did a DNA analysis on the sample they received. They re-interpreted this as having found remains in the trap.

Quote
John wasn't refusing to give it any credence before inspection on Jan 7th, he was remaining objective and keeping focused. I said John wasn't convinced. He wasn't. He said he wouldn't be convinced unless he heard otherwise from the FBI.

Quote
Tim Miller went to Nicaragua on his own terms and Dateline followed him. Tim was chasing down the Nicaraguan lead. He wasn't removed from the Persistence.

http://goldmonkey.org/index.php?topic=980.msg12191#msg12191

It does not appear to me that Kyle Kingman in his own words is implying that he is in "awe" of John Silvetti in regards to the events encompassing the trap and its contents.  Lou ... I respectfully disagree.

Janet

++++++
 
ldstlou
Re: The Cage « Reply #157 on: March 19, 2009, 12:25:09 pm »

So it appears to me as though in March of 2008 Kyle is posting regret that the family was informed it was Natalee before they actually knew what was in the cage and he was in  "awe" of how John Silvetti conducted himself during the cage search.

http://goldmonkey.org/index.php?topic=980.msg12191#msg12191
 

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman:  Imagine how I felt having found the trap. I was told to move forward and to forget about the trap. I was told not to show anyone the images.

Kyle Kingman:  I requested all samples to be brought on board the Persistence for visual and top-side photographs. It was ignored by the project lead (John S.) who felt the Arubans would follow whatever they needed to do as far as proper protocol.

Kyle Kingman:  I personally was extremely uncomfortable with the chain of custody, being that we weren't a part of it, but I was powerless to do anything about it.

Kyle Kingman: I get done in the survey room backing up the ROV dive and head to the back deck to talk to the Polis divers and see what they sampled and see the Polis boat way in the distance heading away fast. John doesn't seem concerned at all, but I am very dissapointed, concerned, and burning inside because I have a feeling that I/we will never know what they took from the trap.

Kyle Kingman:  John is not a believer in the trap. He took ALE's word as gospel that it wasn't case related, yet never studied the videos or bothered to inquire further.

Kyle Kingman: I did not feel the same and we had a major difference in opinion. He was the one who never pressed ALE to be completely open with us with the trap evidence. I would have forced them to.

Kyle Kingman:  I personally do not feel we should disregard the trap or it's contents until we know how that trap got there and what the nature of its contents were IMO.

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman:  I know Richardson for a fact knew about the samples. Mos, I don't know if he ever saw anything for certain. I have no way to confirm or deny his involvement.

Kyle Kingman:  On Jan 7th, Eduardo wasn't on the boat, neither were any media, Tim Miller, or Tim Trahan.

Kyle Kingman:  I'll try to get a list of all people that were ever on the boat and when they were there. This included the meeting on the morning of Dec 30th which is briefly shown on Dateline, where everyone is hovering around my shoulder including Mos and Richardson. This is when they're viewing the 1st ROV video from the 29th dive.

Kyle Kingman:  We later (Jan 7th) found the blue fabric under that sand berm where I theorized a skirt would be found based on the Dec 29th and 30th dives.

Kyle Kingman acknowledged in his own words that his intentions were that the truth regarding the John Silvetti betrayal was to be exposed ... not remain hidden forever on the Natalee's Freebirds' forum.

Janet

++++++

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman:  I couldn't agree more. It was wrong to sit on the footage. I did everything I could to get them out and get them to Beth. Imagine how I felt having found the trap. I was told to move forward and to forget about the trap. I was told not to show anyone the images. I got around this through Tim Trahan. It took months. The only way I felt I could do anything was through here. I hoped through here that at least the images could get to Beth. Fortunately Tim said I could send them to her

Kyle Kingman failed to realize when he made the decision to backtrack on his initial honorable intentions to expose the deception of John Silvetti who was project lead on the Persistence ... a private research group that was dedicated to expose the Aruban coverup agenda that has prevented justice from prevail for Natalee Holloway since May 30, 2005 was not about to sit on info which revealed an American's involvement in furthering that coverup agenda.

Janet

+++++++

KYLE KINGMANS OWN WORDS - JUG TWITTY
 
ldstlou
Re: The Cage « Reply #157 on: March 19, 2009, 12:25:09 pm »

The last posts are taken from the e-mail that Kyle sent to Jug and I in December …

Kyle Kingman: I had questions which were very unsettling about what I had observed during the search including the events surrounding the trap inspection by the Aruban divers and how the samples were handled by ALE - solely Richardson. This made me very uneasy. It was unsettling and I had no one to talk about it with. The Freebird forum was a place where I could safely discuss the unsettling aspects of the search and see if there were any connections. I only did so after the group agreed that nothing would leave the forum. I never wished for any of it to leave the forum.

http://goldmonkey.org/index.php?topic=980.msg12191#msg12191


KYLE KINGMAN’S OWN WORDS - NATALEE FREEBIRDS
 
Kyle Kingman - 03/20/08: Since I got the go ahead from Tim (T), we can legally move forward. The document should follow-up the screen shots and trap content description. We can sent the document after the initial dialog. I trust then she (Beth) will be interested in the document.

The contents of the document should be discussed and agreed upon by the birds. Since I'm new here, I should take a back seat to this IMO. I would think it would be a case synthesis which culminates with the trap contents and lack of interest and motivation to fully process the site. Perhaps Beth will then use the document to create the proper motivation using the information to apply political pressure from both sides. The problem I ran into earlier with the FBI was that their hands are tied to do anything unless they're invited to the party. I think political pressure properly applied will ensure an invite to the party. Thoughts?

Title - perhaps "Case Synthesis and Search Results", or something to that effect.

quote author=Kermit link=topic=4918.msg787088#msg787088 date=1240855321]
Look what  the LEAK just sent me direct from their hidey hole.
 
 
Lisa posted
 
Kyle sent this response to "The Freebirds" statement posted on SM to Jug and I. I am so glad I did not post it at SM even though he said it was ok. After Kyle and I discussed it further, we felt it would do no good. I wanted to share it with you all though. His responses were underlined in the original e-mail. I am going to try and separate them in this text. Will color Kyle's responses in blue.

Hello Lisa, I'll address the following point by point. But first, I must say that I am absolutely grieved at how myself and others were drug back into that egotistical cesspool. What right do these people have in meddling incessantly with affairs that do not concern them? I am not responding to anyone despite their taunts in a public internet forum. I've said too much as it is.


The original text is italic with my responses bold and underlined:------
During the journey of the Persistence to Aruba, Kyle reached out and emailed with us.


I did not reach out to the Freebirds. The administrator (Jen) emailed me periodically to which I replied with basic updates, but nothing beyond what I already posted on the ship's blog. At some point, I was invited to participate in the discussions at Freebirds on their private forum and agreed because of xxxx support (xxxx). I figured if she trusted the group it must be alright. However, I posted nothing without the group first agreeing to complete confidentiality. They all agreed.

During that time, one of the questions posed to him was regarding protocol if/when Natalee's remains were found.

Kyle's response was that he was unsure, but felt that would be settled before the search began.
This is true.

The cautions were given to him about the lack of integrity on the part of Aruba's law enforcement, prosecutor's office, and its judiciary.

This is true, but no surprises


Contact with Kyle continued throughout the duration of the search by the Persistence.

I received periodic emails from the Freebirds (Jen).


Once back home, Kyle asked us for our help. He was very concerned about the activities that transpired during their search - specifically surrounding the find of the fishing cage and its contents. Kyle wanted our help in presenting this information in a factual way, to then be given to Natalee's family.

I had questions which were very unsettling about what I had observed during the search including the events surrounding the trap inspection by the Aruban divers and how the samples were handled by ALE - solely Richardson. This made me very uneasy. It was unsettling and I had no one to talk about it with. The Freebird forum was a place where I could safely discuss the unsettling aspects of the search and see if there were any connections. I only did so after the group agreed that nothing would leave the forum. I never wished for any of it to leave the forum.



Dec 30th and Jan 7th dives to the FBI, but had never received a response from them.

We later found that to be false.

This is completely incorrect. I had sent the FBI the dive screen shots the day each dive was made. Either John or Tim T. sent out the ROV videos at the first opportunity. This wasn't in my hands. I think the Freebirds contacted Birmingham FBI and drew a blank. I sent the screen shots to the senior agent in charge the day they were created, as instructed -Agent S. Bryant and D. Shipley (Barbados).

Also at that time, Beth's brother saw the images Kyle had shared with us - but none of the detail he shared later.

We compiled the images Kyle presented us, along with his opinions and the facts surrounding the sequence of events regarding that fishing cage. Kyle stated he would be getting in touch with Beth Holloway.

About half of what said was opinion, which I clearly stated. They used a lot of my words taken out of context and confused opinions with facts. I never stated I would get in touch with Beth. One of the Freebirds told me they would put Beth in contact with me, not the other way around. I did not see the point in Beth contacting me, as I knew Beth could go right to the FBI for answers and they had everything.
We later found out that never happened.

Naturally I didn't contact her. There was no purpose and I didn't have her contact information- nor should I.


At this time, Kyle shared with us the broadcast networks he had approached in February, in an attempt to sell these images to the highest bidder.

I didn't attempt to sell the images. I attempted to raise interest at ABC on Tim Trahan's request so that perhaps we could gain at least some funding to continue the search effort. It wasn't a highest bidder scenario, in fact there were no bidders. This happened the Wednesday before the Dateline special aired. ABC said too much of the story was already told and wasn't interested.

This didn't concern us greatly at that time - as we were under the impression US law enforcement and Natalee's family had already been made aware of their find.

So which is it? She just contradicted herself. They did know the FBI had everything.

Approximately May 2008 Kyle began dodging questions for details (we had asked for names of Aruban police and divers to be included in our documentation of these events), hedging on moving forward with this, and then he completely disappeared from our board.

I didn't dodge questions. I didn't have this information. I disappeared from the board because I was working offshore of Norway in the North Sea and also in remote places in North Africa and Egypt. I was gone from July through September. When I came back, I logged into the forum and saw they were about to release this grand document containing basically everything I said or posted. Much of it I knew was incorrect and based on opinion. I didn't agree with this, knowing it was inaccurate and also it was understood that nothing I posted was to be made public. They pressured me to change my mind and I wouldn't. I didn't want to get John pissed at me. He was already on edge with what I had posted in the past.

During that time, we learned Kyle had never contacted Beth, or Dave, or the FBI with this information.

Untrue. I was in contact with Agent Shipley through it all. They didn't learn this... they assumed incorrectly.


We put our original plan into motion - that of presenting this information in a clear and concise manner, and we sent it to Beth Holloway.

Beth was disturbed, needed time to digest the information, and wanted to share it with someone she trusts.


I'm sure it was disturbing. It was highly flawed and made the search team look like conspirators!


When Tim Miller was returning to Aruba this past fall, Beth gave us permission to release this information publicly.
Beth didn't do anything of the sort. I read the email.

At that point, we gave it to John Kelly, Carmen Adams with the FBI, and got it ready for public consumption.

The next step was to publish this information at our blog.

One of our members felt we were betraying Kyle in doing so, contacted him, and he re-surfaced at our site with threats of litigation against us - stating this was his "intellectual property" and we could not use it.

That of course concerned us greatly - as none of us could afford to be sued.

I didn't threaten any of them. I said that I personally didn't want to get sued for breaking a confidentiality agreement with information ending up on the Internet. Them pushing it all out put me at risk legally and jeopardized my relationship with John (which is now destroyed over this). Also, this information did not belong posted on the Internet in the first place. It was a huge naive misjudgement on my part to trust this group enough to share it in confidence.



He also stated at that time, Luis Shaefer had just recently sold the rights of the video of these images to a broadcast company for the purposes of a documentary.

I said that Louis was looking into ways to tell the story. One of those ways he was considering was doing a documentary. I didn't know anything further.

We contacted legal counsel and were advised to keep our distance from any Persistence crew member, in the face of potential obstruction/accessory charges.

Obstruction charges? Shouldn't this have been a wake-up call that they were meddling where they shouldn't have been?

At this point, one of our members decided to brace for the possibility of civil litigation, resigned from our membership to protect it from same, and posted what he knows to be factual at SM.
Kyle did tell us human remains were found in that fish cage.

I said the FBI did a DNA analysis on the sample they received. They re-interpreted this as having found remains in the trap.

Kyle did tell us about John Silvetti's intent to open an office on the island of Aruba, to enable him ease in conducting business in South America, and Aruba.

John has no such intentions to my knowledge.

Kyle also told us of John's absolute refusal to give that fish cage and its contents any credence - before even it was inspected on Jan 7th.


John wasn't refusing to give it any credence before inspection on Jan 7th, he was remaining objective and keeping focused. I said John wasn't convinced. He wasn't. He said he wouldn't be convinced unless he heard otherwise from the FBI.


Kyle told us in no uncertain terms that Tim Miller and Dateline were abruptly removed from the Persistence on Dec 30, resulting in only Persistence crew being aboard between that date and the Jan 7 dive of the Arubans.

Tim Miller went to Nicaragua on his own terms and Dateline followed him. Tim was chasing down the Nicaraguan lead. He wasn't removed from the Persistence.


Nothing that was posted at SM by kermit was incorrect, out of context, or in any way false.

I think that statement is absolutely incredible! Kermit and the rest of them not only betrayed my trust and the confidentiality agreement, she continued to post slanderous accusations and used some of my own words, thoughts, and opinions out of context to peddle her adjenda and make the search team look like a bunch of conspirators with John and I at the helm! John hasn't spoken to me since all this nonsense exploded. I've worked with him since Hurricane Katrina. He's been one of my best and trusted clients and friends. This may have destroyed our relationship and therefore affected my ability to provide for my family, which includes my daughter... who we named after Natalee. When will the madness end?





[/quote]

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman: I just want it out in a way that doesn't leave me as "the leak". I'm glad Beth has seen it and wants it out. The question is how to get "it out". I'm working on that. It is not considered evidence as it was deemed not case related by the authorities.

Kyle Kingman:  It is emotionally exhausting holding information inside while waiting and hoping that something comes of your efforts and the efforts of your team.

Kyle Kikngman: ... to create the proper motivation using the information to apply political pressure from both sides.


oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #776 11/19-08
« Reply #679 on: November 20, 2008, 10:10:15 PM »

I haven't seen Kermit post anything untrue presented as factual.  He's expressed his opinion, been taken out of context and misunderstood a few times, but he's pretty spot on as far as facts are concerned.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4153.msg551217;topicseen#msg5
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4466.120

Quote from: Kermit on April 27, 2009, 05:02:01 PM

Look what  the LEAK just sent me direct from their hidey hole.

Lisa posted
 
Kyle sent this response to "The Freebirds" statement posted on SM to Jug and I. I am so glad I did not post it at SM even though he said it was ok. After Kyle and I discussed it further, we felt it would do no good. I wanted to share it with you all though. His responses were underlined in the original e-mail. I am going to try and separate them in this text. Will color Kyle's responses in blue.

Hello Lisa, I'll address the following point by point. But first, I must say that I am absolutely grieved at how myself and others were drug back into that egotistical cesspool. What right do these people have in meddling incessantly with affairs that do not concern them? I am not responding to anyone despite their taunts in a public internet forum. I've said too much as it is.


The original text is italic with my responses bold and underlined:------
During the journey of the Persistence to Aruba, Kyle reached out and emailed with us.


I did not reach out to the Freebirds. The administrator (Jen) emailed me periodically to which I replied with basic updates, but nothing beyond what I already posted on the ship's blog. At some point, I was invited to participate in the discussions at Freebirds on their private forum and agreed because of xxxx support (xxxx). I figured if she trusted the group it must be alright. However, I posted nothing without the group first agreeing to complete confidentiality. They all agreed.

During that time, one of the questions posed to him was regarding protocol if/when Natalee's remains were found.

Kyle's response was that he was unsure, but felt that would be settled before the search began.
This is true.

The cautions were given to him about the lack of integrity on the part of Aruba's law enforcement, prosecutor's office, and its judiciary.

This is true, but no surprises


Contact with Kyle continued throughout the duration of the search by the Persistence.

I received periodic emails from the Freebirds (Jen).


Once back home, Kyle asked us for our help. He was very concerned about the activities that transpired during their search - specifically surrounding the find of the fishing cage and its contents. Kyle wanted our help in presenting this information in a factual way, to then be given to Natalee's family.

I had questions which were very unsettling about what I had observed during the search including the events surrounding the trap inspection by the Aruban divers and how the samples were handled by ALE - solely Richardson. This made me very uneasy. It was unsettling and I had no one to talk about it with. The Freebird forum was a place where I could safely discuss the unsettling aspects of the search and see if there were any connections. I only did so after the group agreed that nothing would leave the forum. I never wished for any of it to leave the forum.



Dec 30th and Jan 7th dives to the FBI, but had never received a response from them.

We later found that to be false.

This is completely incorrect. I had sent the FBI the dive screen shots the day each dive was made. Either John or Tim T. sent out the ROV videos at the first opportunity. This wasn't in my hands. I think the Freebirds contacted Birmingham FBI and drew a blank. I sent the screen shots to the senior agent in charge the day they were created, as instructed -Agent S. Bryant and D. Shipley (Barbados).

Also at that time, Beth's brother saw the images Kyle had shared with us - but none of the detail he shared later.

We compiled the images Kyle presented us, along with his opinions and the facts surrounding the sequence of events regarding that fishing cage. Kyle stated he would be getting in touch with Beth Holloway.

About half of what said was opinion, which I clearly stated. They used a lot of my words taken out of context and confused opinions with facts. I never stated I would get in touch with Beth. One of the Freebirds told me they would put Beth in contact with me, not the other way around. I did not see the point in Beth contacting me, as I knew Beth could go right to the FBI for answers and they had everything.
We later found out that never happened.

Naturally I didn't contact her. There was no purpose and I didn't have her contact information- nor should I.


At this time, Kyle shared with us the broadcast networks he had approached in February, in an attempt to sell these images to the highest bidder.

I didn't attempt to sell the images. I attempted to raise interest at ABC on Tim Trahan's request so that perhaps we could gain at least some funding to continue the search effort. It wasn't a highest bidder scenario, in fact there were no bidders. This happened the Wednesday before the Dateline special aired. ABC said too much of the story was already told and wasn't interested.

This didn't concern us greatly at that time - as we were under the impression US law enforcement and Natalee's family had already been made aware of their find.

So which is it? She just contradicted herself. They did know the FBI had everything.

Approximately May 2008 Kyle began dodging questions for details (we had asked for names of Aruban police and divers to be included in our documentation of these events), hedging on moving forward with this, and then he completely disappeared from our board.

I didn't dodge questions. I didn't have this information. I disappeared from the board because I was working offshore of Norway in the North Sea and also in remote places in North Africa and Egypt. I was gone from July through September. When I came back, I logged into the forum and saw they were about to release this grand document containing basically everything I said or posted. Much of it I knew was incorrect and based on opinion. I didn't agree with this, knowing it was inaccurate and also it was understood that nothing I posted was to be made public. They pressured me to change my mind and I wouldn't. I didn't want to get John pissed at me. He was already on edge with what I had posted in the past.

During that time, we learned Kyle had never contacted Beth, or Dave, or the FBI with this information.

Untrue. I was in contact with Agent Shipley through it all. They didn't learn this... they assumed incorrectly.


We put our original plan into motion - that of presenting this information in a clear and concise manner, and we sent it to Beth Holloway.

Beth was disturbed, needed time to digest the information, and wanted to share it with someone she trusts.


I'm sure it was disturbing. It was highly flawed and made the search team look like conspirators!


When Tim Miller was returning to Aruba this past fall, Beth gave us permission to release this information publicly.
Beth didn't do anything of the sort. I read the email.

At that point, we gave it to John Kelly, Carmen Adams with the FBI, and got it ready for public consumption.

The next step was to publish this information at our blog.

One of our members felt we were betraying Kyle in doing so, contacted him, and he re-surfaced at our site with threats of litigation against us - stating this was his "intellectual property" and we could not use it.

That of course concerned us greatly - as none of us could afford to be sued.

I didn't threaten any of them. I said that I personally didn't want to get sued for breaking a confidentiality agreement with information ending up on the Internet. Them pushing it all out put me at risk legally and jeopardized my relationship with John (which is now destroyed over this). Also, this information did not belong posted on the Internet in the first place. It was a huge naive misjudgement on my part to trust this group enough to share it in confidence.



He also stated at that time, Luis Shaefer had just recently sold the rights of the video of these images to a broadcast company for the purposes of a documentary.

I said that Louis was looking into ways to tell the story. One of those ways he was considering was doing a documentary. I didn't know anything further.

We contacted legal counsel and were advised to keep our distance from any Persistence crew member, in the face of potential obstruction/accessory charges.

Obstruction charges? Shouldn't this have been a wake-up call that they were meddling where they shouldn't have been?  

At this point, one of our members decided to brace for the possibility of civil litigation, resigned from our membership to protect it from same, and posted what he knows to be factual at SM.
Kyle did tell us human remains were found in that fish cage.

I said the FBI did a DNA analysis on the sample they received. They re-interpreted this as having found remains in the trap.

Kyle did tell us about John Silvetti's intent to open an office on the island of Aruba, to enable him ease in conducting business in South America, and Aruba.

John has no such intentions to my knowledge.

Kyle also told us of John's absolute refusal to give that fish cage and its contents any credence - before even it was inspected on Jan 7th.


John wasn't refusing to give it any credence before inspection on Jan 7th, he was remaining objective and keeping focused. I said John wasn't convinced. He wasn't. He said he wouldn't be convinced unless he heard otherwise from the FBI.


Kyle told us in no uncertain terms that Tim Miller and Dateline were abruptly removed from the Persistence on Dec 30, resulting in only Persistence crew being aboard between that date and the Jan 7 dive of the Arubans.

Tim Miller went to Nicaragua on his own terms and Dateline followed him. Tim was chasing down the Nicaraguan lead. He wasn't removed from the Persistence.


Nothing that was posted at SM by kermit was incorrect, out of context, or in any way false.

I think that statement is absolutely incredible! Kermit and the rest of them not only betrayed my trust and the confidentiality agreement, she continued to post slanderous accusations and used some of my own words, thoughts, and opinions out of context to peddle her adjenda and make the search team look like a bunch of conspirators with John and I at the helm! John hasn't spoken to me since all this nonsense exploded. I've worked with him since Hurricane Katrina. He's been one of my best and trusted clients and friends. This may have destroyed our relationship and therefore affected my ability to provide for my family, which includes my daughter... who we named after Natalee. When will the madness end?

Kyle Kingman's first email to the Natalee's Freebirds ...

Tuesday, December 11, 2007 8:59 PM
From: This sender is DomainKeys verified"Kyle Kingman" <xxxxxxxxx>
To: freebirdsjustice@yahoo.com
-----Inline Attachment Follows-----

Greetings, I came across your site and thought you'd might be interested in following along with the search.  I'm the geophysical engineer on board the Persistence and author of the ship's blog which chronicles the search effort.  http://nholloway.blogspot.com Regards,
--
Kyle Kingman

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman - 03/21/08:  I can see from the dive video other items were sampled that weren't in the ziplock bags. The piece of tarp wasn't in the ziplocks. It was put into a fishnet bag along with possible other items that I havn't heard about but can see being sampled. I am 100% confident other important items are at that site and can be found during processing of the site with a suction system.

MAY 1, 2009

Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #818 4/30/09 -
« Reply #144 on: Today at 03:45:16 PM »

Kyle has the list of all the dive targets, but he shows them to nobody, he also did not show the ROV tapes to anybody. Think about that.

He takes six pictures from the December 30 dive and sent them to the FBI.
But he never sends them the most incriminating pictures of the cage with all the bags in it.
He has the only copy of those tapes except for supposedly one that was on the RV Persistence that was removed when John emptied everything off the boat.
 
That's pretty much a guarantee that those pictures will never get out, and also explains why Kyle never sent the damaging one to the FBI.

A plan was in place and that is why Capslockwizard was brought in to draw everybody away to the pond and that plan is put into action as Capslockwizard signs up at SM on the date of the first ROV dive.................. nobody will ever think about the cage because nobody will even know about it.

Capslockwizard begins posting and emails Dave Holloway to come to Aruba to get his daughter's body.

All of a sudden dateline pulled out a picture of the cage/trap and  they didn't think dateline would be able to use that footage, but the FBI told them it wasn't case-sensitive because they probably had not even received the material yet, they put the picture on their special of the cage/trap.
 
Then Robin gets the pictures from the FBI and puts them on her BNH site and then they get carried out onto the Internet -  those pictures just destroyed everything because people could see what was in that cage, which all of a sudden got exposed on the Internet.

The group that is working behind the scenes continue on with the plan where Capslockwizard is directing everybody toward the pond. Keep in mind everyone thought/thinks Capslockwizard is working with the witness and putting his life in danger by giving SM all this secret Shango/Simian-like information.
 
If those pictures of the cage had not come out from dateline or had not come out  then their plan of  Capslockwizard directing everybody to the pond would have worked because nobody would have even known about the cage or anything being in it. No one would know about the cage/trap evidence being retrived by only Aruba divers.



On September 17, 2007 Mark Purcell emailed Capslockwizard to come to Freebirds blog.

HOW CAN YOU TELL?

ANSWER - the referring URL in the 2nd persons information shows they came straight from their email to our blog. In addition, the IPs match those two individuals and the computer settings match.


On October 16, 2007 Capslockwizard came to our blog via an email sent to him
This was someone in Aruba who was sent the link to our blog via email.
They came straight to our blog from their email.

THE IP THAT SENT THE EMAIL TO CAPS TO COME TO OUR BLOG IS KAWISH MISIER.

July 27, 2008  Kawish Misier came to this thread dated Nov 13, 2007
San posted photos of Joran
Tamikosmom posted about Karam Misier - A man contacted Dave & asked him to meet at the VIP Club (Owned by the Misier's)

He did a search for June 20, 2008 24ora.com
That is the date of the dead body found floating in the ocean

* THEN HE WENT TO THE FRONT PAGE OF SM
#  Steve Holloway on July 14th, 2008 9:07 am
I want every body to know that Dave still wants the water search to continue. Their are over 170 targets that have to be looked at.

July 14, 2008
Dr. Phil Attorneys Use Scared Monkeys Natalee Holloway Posts as Exhibit in Court Docs Against Deepak & Satish Kalpoes
http://scaredmonkeys.com/2008/07/12/dr-phil-attorneys-use-scared-monkeys-natalee-holloway-posts-as-exhibit-in-court-docs-against-deepak-satish-kalpoes/


November 28, 2007 - CAPS CAME BACK TO OUR BLOG from Search Words: transcript wiretapping joran van der sloot


Dave Holloway told Caps in an email: "I have a contact in Aruba"
It is believed that that contact in Aruba is Mark Purcell since he is a member of BNH site.



Kawish Miser



LW
http://www.arubayp.com/whitesearch.html?phone=&name=geerman&page=7



Reply #421 on: July 08, 2006, 06:13:03 PM   klaas
Deepak has 2 friends listed, Koen and Kawish.  Kawish has a photo of himself with someone named Santos:
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=57.msg10643#msg10643




GG
Siribana 6
297- 585-3063
http://www.arubayp.com/whitesearch.html?phone=&name=geerman&page=7



MANSUR: Of course. We know he was involved from the beginning. And after the new wave of things(ph), Mr. Herman, who saw Joran walking with his clothes all muddy. And then later he was saw him in the car with Paulus van der Sloot.

And we assume, and it has been certified by this man that the man who took Joran van der Sloot to his home that night after Natalee disappeared was his father. So he was involved from the beginning.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,462349,00.html
 
 
#52 on: Today at 10:44:30 AM
Could Jossy be saying Geerman or Gearman as that is a very common name in Aruba.  Mr. Geerman
 


LW   
Shiribana 6
297-588-9902
http://www.arubayp.com/whitesearch.html?phone=&name=Webb&page=2



Caplockwizard
Address: Shiribana 6,
Aruba
Phone: 297-xxx-xxxx



Several different ips were used when Capslockwizard logged in.
* The English changed - remember.
* A Member from BNH is behind the Caplockwizard conspiracy.


Observation by someone: "My guess is this is caps working on his next story to misdirect them next..
he has been there and signed in at least a few times since you put the stuff on,, I have caught him there just reading a couple of times and yet he's never made a post... and his followers don't wonder about it at all"




What is wrong with this picture?
 #931 on: December 03, 2008, 12:19:56 AM  Capslockwizard posted:
Another thing , I went to dive a week a go to the same location, and the Cage is still there. If the cage was evidance in a murder case, why is it still in the water.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564838#msg564838



Sent: Monday, March 3, 2008 8:05:29 PM posted by Capslockwizard
Subject: FW: The meeting will be schedule at 2:00 pm - my house

 

March 08, 2008, 11:10:26 PM posted by Capslockwizard
I think we all have worked very hard this week and I have not had a chance to enjoy a good laugh since I started with the Monkeys on my research.
I hope tomorrow we will have the final links into a final resolution about the pond. This comming week is THE DAY.
Me and J & W and the C's are all in a agreement now that it must be there



On April 20, 2009 Capslockwizard search words: "tired of natalee holloway"


Capslockwizard
GG
LW
Kawish
Clyde Burke
Mark Purcell

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4924.new#new

Kyle said:

After the Dateline broadcast and the results were claimed to be in, the FBI issues their statement which Mos uses for his press release claiming the fabric not a match to her blouse.
Interesting points to ponder:
1) Does the FBI statement really say anything at all in light of the evidence? - NO
2) Does the press release from Hans Mos say anything at all in light of the evidence? - NO
3) Do these statements say anything different to the press and therefore the public (family included)? - YES.
---

Kyle said:
I hope you're able to make sense of it... if it's related. I don't know why the time is so long between the sample date (7-Jan) and when the FBI claims to have received the items (22-Jan). Richardson claims to have personally sent the items immediately to the FBI. He didn't say anything about it being sent anywhere else. The FBI claims half the samples were sent to Holland for analysis. Richardson says the FBI got it all. The FBI says there were human remains (this is aside from the fabrics). - this is a big lurking question in the forums, whether or not there were human remains. To my understanding, there were indeed remains. The trap appeared to be badly scavenged, with items scattered radially away from the trap opening. Tim Trahan couldn't conclusively identify any bone inside the trap (hence the thumbs down). I couldn't see anything from the video other than the contested skull (which I have dubbed the caribbean skull-sponge).

I have my reservations about the trap we found coming from the fishermen huts, but it's certainly possible. The trap is almost straight out from Arashi in 90ft of water.

If it isn't her who is it?
I'm still convinced it is.
Stay the course. Lets keep moving forward.

Gob Bless,
~Kyle

_____

Credit: Jen

FBI Says Fabrics Found in Aruban Crab Trap Not From Holloway
Tuesday, February 26, 2008

ORANJESTAD, Aruba  —  An FBI analysis of fabric collected from a crab trap off Aruba showed the material did not match clothing worn by missing American Natalee Holloway, prosecutors said Tuesday.

The fabric was recovered in January by divers in about 90 feet of water as they searched for the body of the missing woman, the Aruban public prosecutor's office said in a statement.

The FBI compared the material to a blouse worn by Holloway, who was 18 when she disappeared on the final night of a high school graduation trip to the Dutch Caribbean island in May 2005. The results "showed that the two materials were not a match," the statement said.

Special Agent Ann Todd, a spokeswoman for the FBI Laboratory in Quantico, Va., said the lab could not comment on the case.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,332848,00.html

KYLE WANTING TO FIGURE OUT WHO THE LEAK WAS FOR JANUARY 23rd.

Kyle said: "I would really like to know how that got out on the [JAN] 23rd. I know for a fact the following cast of characters knew about the trap and sampling. This is not a complete list, just who I know who knew:

Dateline NBC, Tim Miller, Dave and Robin H., Beth, Persistence crew, Aruban police dive division, Tim Trahan, Louis Schafer (sp), Mos, Richardson, Eduardo Mansur

Kyle said: "Dateline already began scripting a story that we found Natalee on the 29th of Dec. Obviously this was halted on Dec 30th."

Kyle said: "No way would she {Beth] leak."

Kyle said: "I became a member at BNH on Jan 27th."

Kyle said:  The timing also came the day after the prosecution claim the FBI received the samples. (2 weeks late in my opinion). Something's foul in the state of Aruba.

BNH - Mark Purcell................>Capslockwizard..................>Kawish..................>Lorenzo Webb..........>Geerman..........>
Clyde Burke..............>Julia Renfro.............>Angela Mufzenhofer (sp)................>IFA...........>AHTA........>
see the pattern.

Credit: Kermit

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman:  Kermit and the rest of them not only betrayed my trust and the confidentiality agreement, she continued to post slanderous accusations and used some of my own words, thoughts, and opinions out of context to peddle her adjenda and make the search team look like a bunch of conspirators with John and I at the helm! John hasn't spoken to me since all this nonsense exploded. I've worked with him since Hurricane Katrina. He's been one of my best and trusted clients and friends. This may have destroyed our relationship and therefore affected my ability to provide for my family, which includes my daughter... who we named after Natalee. When will the madness end?

Source:

Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #817 4/22/09 -
« Reply #488 on: April 27, 2009, 05:02:01 PM »http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?
topic=4918.msg787088;topicseen#msg787088


jen3560
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #817 4/22/09 -
« Reply #493 on: April 27, 2009, 05:36:14 PM »

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4918.msg787088;topicseen#msg787088

++++++++

Kingman Geophysical Solutions
Consulting services for ocean exploration specializing in project managment, data acquistion, QC, reporting, GIS, geophysical data interpretation and processing, magnetometer/gradiometer analysis, hydrographic surveys, reporting, and charting.

March 21, 2009

http://www.geosolutions.blogspot.com/

Debbie
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #820 6/10/09 -
« Reply #598 on: June 18, 2009, 11:29:24 PM »

Louis, John, Tim and Dave are trying to get the funds to complete the search on the targets.... they are working together.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=5127.msg845027#msg845027

+++++++

Considering Debbie's personal relationship with Dave and Robin Holloway as well as her connection with John Silvetti ... I believe her words.

When Kyle Kingsman's posts are considered regarding John Silvetti affording the enemy unchallenged possession of what may have been Natalee Holloway's remains ... inquiring minds want to know why Dave Holloway and Tim Miller are working together with Silvetti in the raising of funds for the purpose of investigating remaining targets.

Janet

+++++


ROBIN HOLLOWAY
December, 2007

Dave is currently on his way home to Meridian. Beth is on her way back also. They met with the KLPD and OM yesterday. I guess there is a miscommunication between interrogation and questioning. They had a lot of questions for Dave and Beth in efforts to help Natalee’s case and dispel a lot of nasty rumours. Also, Dave and Beth had a lot of questions for them too in regards to Natalee’s case. The meeting went well and they are working hard, but we don’t know what will happen next and pray this water search will turn up something.  As far as Julia, we have stayed in contact with her and she truly does care for Natalee and wants to know what happened to her as much as anyone else. Dave was able to meet with Mark for a little while last night while he was there and had a nice visit. It is good to know they are still there and willing to help. Please know they are still there too for Natalee ...

For now, waiting on Dave to get home and will watch the news or wait on that phone call to see what will happen next. It’s been a long two and a half years and never dreamed this much time would go by with no answers. Thanks to all of you for your continued support and for hanging in there with us. Thank you Debbie for coming to Meridian to hang out with the girls, Matt and me. I was a nervous wreck and glad you were able to make time for us this weekend. Brooke just got in from a playdate and was upset she didn’t get to say goodbye Sad I don’t think she realized you would be gone before she got home.

The boat should be in Aruba depending on the weather between Thurs and Saturday. Will keep you updated.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2409.msg311317#msg311317


THE VISUAL DIVE

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman: I requested all samples to be brought on board the Persistence for visual and top-side photographs. It was ignored by the project lead (John S.) who felt the Arubans would follow whatever they needed to do as far as proper protocol.

Kyle Kingman:  his occurred on Dec 30th when the Arubans told us there wasn't anything of interest in the trap based on the visual-only inspection (Dateline and Tim Miller present). After the Dec 30th dive John didn't want Tim Miller on board the Persistence because he said Tim wasn't necessary any more and was a liability.  I don't know what that exactly means, but Tim wasn't hurting anything except releasing the statements to the press and Holloways that we found Natalee. Although likely true ...

Kyle Kingman:  On the night of the 30th (I believe this was Tim's last night on the Persistence) I approached Tim and proposed some ideas to him. I suggested that we shouldn't take the Aruban Polis divers at their word and proceed with planning a recovery of the trap. Also, I proposed the trap site may not be pristine or the Polis may have already knew about it. This statement was backed up by several comments we heard, behavior we observed, and other things. Tim told me he thought I was right but didn't know what to do about it.

Kyle Kingman:  I hadn't slept in 48 hours. I crashed for a few hours rest and by the time I got up Dateline and Tim Miller had left the boat. That is when John [Silvetti] assumed full control over the remainder of the project and had us searching in the deepest portions of our search area which coincided with Richardson's remarks. Richardson told us after the Jan-7th dive to keep searching in deep water.

Kyle Kingman: He (Tim Miller) stepped off on or about the 1st of Jan to follow up on the false lead in Costa Rica.

Kyle Kingman: We're being fed misinformation to keep us searching and out of their way while they cover their asses, destroy evidence, cover their tracks, and keep us out at sea and away from the trap.


THE RECOVERY DIVE

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman:  For Jan 7th, Eduardo wasn't on the boat, neither were any media, Tim Miller, or Tim Trahan.

Kyle Kingman: The Persistence had no divers on the 7th. Tim Trahan was our diver on the 30th-Dec, but he was out of the country at the time. The Aruban divers were on the police boat, dove from their boat, and returned to their boat.

Kyle Kingman: The Persistence had no divers on the 7th. Tim Trahan was our diver on the 30th-Dec, but he was out of the country at the time. The Aruban divers were on the police boat, dove from their boat, and returned to their boat.

Kyle Kingman: They were immediately whisked away by the Aruban police and not seen of again by us on the 7th

Kyle Kingman:  The bags were deliberately placed there after the divers sampled the contents. The bags were removed just after the ROV got out of the way when the divers took the samples to their boat.... and took off.

Kyle Kingman: The fabric(s?) are not visible on either the Dec 29th or 30th dives. There is about an inch of sand over the fabrics. The fabrics are completely covered. The diver sampled the sand and found the fabric underneath the sand. He then bagged the blue fabric. If the other bag contains fabric, it was also in the sand. There was also something possibly recovered from far inside the trap. In the video the diver is inside the trap with just below his knees showing.

Kyle Kingman: In my opinion, the blue fabric is quite possibly Natalee's skirt. The divers found the denim where I suggested a week earlier (Dec 29th) to Tim Miller that there was likely Natalee's denim skirt under the sand. Also in my opinion, the deni-like fabric is a match in terms of color, quantity, and structure to Natalee's skirt. It's not a lot of denim folded in the bag, but then again her skirt was rather small.

Kyle Kingman: I get done in the survey room backing up the ROV dive and head to the back deck to talk to the Polis divers and see what they sampled and see the Polis boat way in the distance heading away fast. John doesn't seem concerned at all, but I am very dissapointed, concerned, and burning inside because I have a feeling that I/we will never know what they took from the trap. That evening I talked to John asking when we plan on recovering the trap. Previously this was part of the talks and plan, but this time he doesn't seem concerned about ever looking into the trap further. After John verbally BASHED me about the trap for what I said to Tim Miller about the sand body-form and that I believed her skirt was under the sand, John pretty much committed himself to the belief the trap wasn't what we were after. This shocked me because it was exactly what we were looking for- a fish trap lost at sea with human remains.

Kyle Kingman:  I personally was extremely uncomfortable with the chain of custody, being that we weren't a part of it, but I was powerless to do anything about it. The samples were photographed in detail by one Aruban diver and the other two investigated the contents of the trap, the dimensions, the rigging, and what surrounded the trap. From the video, it looked like they did a diligent and careful job with the samples and the underwater photography. I don't know who has these pictures, but I must assume ALE.

Kyle Kingman:  John is not a believer in the trap. He took ALE's word as gospel that it wasn't case related, yet never studied the videos or bothered to inquire further. He had plans on doing business with Aruba and in S. America and he didn't want to hurt any feelings by talks hinting at lack of complete trust and friendship. I did not feel the same and we had a major difference in opinion. He was the one who never pressed ALE to be completely open with us with the trap evidence. I would have forced them to. However, John was the one paying my invoices so I was forced to sit back and hope for the best.

The Dana Pretzer Show On Scared Monkeys Radio - Wednesday, June 17, 2009 - Special Guests: Alexis Moore and Maria Phelps, Mark Williams, Tim Miller, Steph Watts and Robin Sax with “Nothing but the Sax”
 
June 17th, 2009  Mark Williams, Missing Persons, Robin Sax, The Dana Pretzer Show, Tim Miller

http://scaredmonkeysradio.com/2009/06/17/the-dana-pretzer-show-on-scared-monkeys-radio-wednesday-june-17-2009-special-guests-alexis-moore-and-maria-phelps-mark-williams-tim-miller-steph-watts-and-robin-sax-with-%e2%80%9cnothing-but/

Tim Miller:  50:25

++++++++


texasmom
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #820 6/10/09 -
« Reply #577 on: June 18, 2009, 10:41:08 PM »

This is not perfect but I tried to do a transcript of what Tim Miller said:

Tim Miller on Dana Pretzer 6/17/09 About the Holloway Case

You know what we’re having a big fundraiser in July and Beth is actually coming to our fundraiser.  You know we’ve done so very very much work in Aruba.  And I was actually with John Silvetti that did the water search over there and Louis Schaefer who actually funded that thing last time I was with them just a couple of weeks ago and the Natalee Holloway case is one of them that we still have 140+ targets over there that we located with the sonar equipment, it’s one of those things that we do want to get over there and investigate every one of them with the ROV send it down some of that stuffs in 1100 feet of water.  And again it’s going to be an extremely expensive search upwards of a million and a half dollars and again there’s one irresponsible reporter out of Birmingham Alabama that reported that we already had that one and a half million dollars secured.  And it’s one of the things that just killed our donations..I mean just killed em.  We got emails and phone calls of people that had donated to us said how in the world can you spend one and a half million dollars on the Natalee Holloway case when we have all these missing persons cases over here.  Again it’s was not like that.  We don’t have ten cents secured for the Natalee Holloway case to go back to Aruba yet, it’s one of the things that Louis Schaefer is working on.  I know for a fact we will be back there someday.  I don’t think Fred Golba helped our relationship out over there in Aruba when he took his dog over there.  But I think we can mend all that stuff and move forward but I am certainly looking forward to the day when we get back over to Aruba continue that search and investigate every one of them objects that we’ve got out there in the sea.  See if we can pull off that miracle and get Natalee located.  Natalee is of course not priority right now and it’s because of funding and because of other cases we’ve got.  But I’m not going to say that she’s totally on the back burner neither. So you know it’s going to take another one of them miracles for Louis Schaefer to go ahead and generate the money and I know if anybody can do it it will be Louis Schaefer.  And when God blesses us with that then we’ll go over there and put every effort into seeing if by chance one of them objects is Natalee and we feel as though one of them are, we’ve just got to get the right one.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=5127.msg844967#msg844967

(HT Blonde)
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/persistence/profile.jpg)

(HT texasmom)

(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b258/texasmom55/Persistence/thugcompare-1.jpg)

Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman: I believe her left arm was outstretched with her legs slightly bent. I did not edit the legs.  I believe the tarp was placed over her and tucked around her, or perhaps tied down. I believe there are several rocks laying on the sand which were placed on the tarp, or inside the tarp over her body which explains their unusual location.  Either way, the proportions appear promising.

Kyle Kingman:  In my opinion, everything inside, on, and around the trap indicates the whole operation was done very fast and without a lot of thought or preparation. This doesn't look like a job performed by experts.

Kyle Kingman:  Oh, noone has possession of any footage except Tim Trahan, an archived copy on the Persistence, and myself.


Source:

Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #804 3/1/09 -
« Reply #911 on: March 06, 2009, 07:20:03 PM »

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4617.msg706970;topicseen#msg706970

CONFIDENTIALITY AGREEMENT


KYLE KINGMAN - EMAIL TO JUG TWITTY AND IDSTLOU

ldstlou
Re: The Cage « Reply #157 on: March 19, 2009, 12:25:09 pm »

The last posts are taken from the e-mail that Kyle sent to Jug and I in December

Kyle Kingman:  I didn't threaten any of them. I said that I personally didn't want to get sued for breaking a confidentiality agreement with information ending up on the Internet. Them pushing it all out put me at risk legally and jeopardized my relationship with John (which is now destroyed over this). Also, this information did not belong posted on the Internet in the first place. It was a huge naive misjudgement on my part to trust this group enough to share it in confidence.

http://goldmonkey.org/index.php?topic=980.msg12191#msg12191


KYLE KINGMAN - EMAIL TO KERMIT

Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #786 12/17/08 -
« Reply #540 on: December 19, 2008, 06:15:18 PM »

Kyle sent me this today

Kermit,
 
You and the others agreed to a statement of confidentiality and nondisclosure at FB.  Before I posted any information, I posted a copyright notice at the very start which disallowed ANY and ALL of my posts, intellectual property, or pictures to leave the spot they were posted.  Everyone, including yourself, acknowledged this affirmatively. A lawyer said that ownership of that posted material cannot be transferred by a general claim of copyright such as a claim made on the front page of a website, or even by verbal consent. Written agreement, meaning a signed agreement, is required for the post to be owned by the site owner. Without a signed agreement, the poster owns the post. I did not give you permission, which I have stated many times when you were in violation. While the rest agreed, you violated this legal agreement repeatedly.  You have taken many of my posts, snipped what you wanted to put them into your context, and then shared them in a public forum.  The "public domain" notion only applies where someone has copyright ownership over the work in the first case and that ownership has lapsed. In that case, all posts can be freely reproduced by anyone, anywhere, without violating copyright law. However, this is clearly not the case.

I will state this with absolute clarity so there is no misunderstanding:
I have confirmed with the FBI on multiple instances that they have had possession of the ROV videos since very early on. I personally didn't send the ROV footage to them because another project lead had already at the first opportunity while we were still in Aruba. I sent all of the ROV screen shots directly to the FBI the day they were acquired.

I also got confirmation back in February by Tim Trahan who was in constant contact with Beth during the search that she indeed had all the information including the statements and has seen the ROV videos. I personally confirmed all of this with the senior FBI agent in charge of the investigation as well as given him my personal account of all that I witnessed and knew. They have this on record.  Birmingham is not the office in charge.
 
The information you have been spreading is not only inaccurate and a violation of a non-disclosure, it is slanderous and spreading misinformation. The damage it has done to my professional relationship with J. Silvetti is incalculable which has a direct effect on my ability to provide for my family, which includes my daughter named after Natalee.
I have neither publicly responded to your provocative antics, or retaliated with personal attacks in response to yours. I also have never threatened you as you publicly claimed.
 
I recently asked the senior FBI agent in charge how I should handle this situation which you have incited.   I thought his response was terrific. He replied: "Just sit back and keep quiet.  Kermit doesn't matter".

So this is exactly what I've done. I wrote this letter to you as a gesture of courtesy in hopes it would save you from further embarrassment from those who actually know something about this case.  I'm not referring to myself, rather the family and lead investigators who are out legitimately investigating this case in pursuit of justice right to the top.
 
Sincerely,
 Kyle

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4246.msg592482;topicseen#msg592482

Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman: She [BETH] needs to know exactly what we found in the proper timing.  The way to do that would be through Tim Trahan and I. I can arrange any meeting with him. He represents the owner and the rights to the data, in this case, Louis S.  I have everything but I don't want to go around him for chain of custody reasons, professional courtesy, and friendship.

Kyle Kingman:[/b]  Louis does have legal rights to the footage  regardless of Underwater Expeditions status. Louis personally signed the checks for the search.

Kermit - scaredmonkeys.net

Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman:  I couldn't get the logs from the Persistence. All things "Holloway" were stripped from the boat once it got back to Louisiana. I had some stuff on my hard drive, but not those logs with the names. The logs and other information are in an unknown secure location. Only two people know that location and I am not one of them. I know better not even to ask about it, especially now.

Kyle Kingman:  Oh, no one has possession of any footage except Tim Trahan, an archived copy on the Persistence, and myself.

Kermit - scaredmonkeys.net

In June, 2008 ... there appears to be an attempt by Kyle Kingman, Tim Trahan and Louis Schaefer to reveal the entire footage ... the entire footage that would expose the contents of the trap/cage as something more than fabric.

Could it be that Kyle Kingman be lying in an attempt to prevent the release of the expose' put together by the Natalee's Freebird.  Was Kyle Kingman regretting his own words.

Think about it.

1.  It has been revealed that Beth Holloway was never contacted
2.  It has been revealed that John Silvetti provided Kyle Kingman with very beneficial career opportunities in the summer of 2008.
3.  It appears that the BIG CARD was never played.

Janet

+++++


ROV FOOTAGE - THE BIG CARD!

Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman - June 10/08:  Well, it's all going to happen. The big card will soon be played.  I just had a secret meeting with Tim Trahan and by proxy, Louis Shafer. Tomorrow, Tim Trahan will get in touch with Beth Holloway in regards to the trap footage and missing evidence. We're getting geared up to play the conspiracy cover-up card on Aruba and force the bogus investigation out into the open. We believe the trap footage may be the missing piece which will raise a BIG question in the minds of the public everywhere.

Kyle Kingman - June 16/08:  On the other hand, those differences has also caused a rift between Tim Trahan/Louis and myself with John (although John and I remain close friends and colleagues). The result is Tim, Louis and I are moving forward and John [Silvetti] is left out of the loop. Tim Trahan has allied himself with me. What John's doing in Aruba, I am not entirely sure now although I know it's got to do with the pond search and some business relations. loathe the thought of going around John with the trap info but that's Tim's decision, not mine. It was Tim who wanted me involved in where we are going now.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4554.msg679597;topicseen#

Kermit - scaredmonkeys.net

Could it be that the entire ROV footage was not the subject of the February negotiations or ... Kyle Kingman was outright lying.

I cannot comprehend ... if the an uncut footage was the subject of negotiations ... why ABC or the other networks were not interested.  Think about it.  Tim Trahan ... the American diver ... surfaced from the December 30th observation dive and implied on the Dateline Special that nothing case related was in in the trap.  The Aruban divers claimed there was nothing case related.

The ROV footage which was viewed by six executives at ABC should have implied otherwise if the footage had not been edited. 

Janet

++++++ 


Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman:  I've talked with Peter Shouten numerous times back in February. He hasn't seen anything but knows about the blue fabrics. DeVries and Endemol was interested in purchasing the ROV footage and I was working between them, ABC, and CBS to strike a deal. DeVries also wanted to arrange a meeting. THEN the Dateline special aired and killed it all. It wasn't that they (Endemol, ABCs 20-20, and CBSs 48-Hours) were no longer interested, its just that too much of the story was told and messed up by NBC to re-hash the entire case and air the footage as a breaking story.

I should clarify that the footage proceeds (if sold) wouldn't even have covered the cost of the project, but it would have helped.

Kyle Kingman:  Right before the Dateline special aired Tim and Louis asked if I could go to ABC to try to sell the footage in an attempt to recoup some of the money invested in the search efforts. ABC was very interested, but decided to wait until the Dateline special aired. After the show they came back to me and declined to purchase it because they felt too much of the story was already told by Dateline. That ended any communication with ABC.  About 6 executive producers saw the footage, but none were allowed copies or any pictures. Everything remained in my possesion.

Kermit - scaredmonkeys.net


oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #743 3/14 -
« Reply #732 on: March 18, 2008, 03:47:36 PM »

Getting the response of nothing case significant gave Dateline a legal foothold to show the trap in their 1 hr special.  This response likely came before the FBI even received the samples for testing.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?action=profile;u=819;sa=showPosts

TIM TRAHAN - THE PATH

Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman: She [BETH] needs to know exactly what we found in the proper timing.  The way to do that would be through Tim Trahan and I. I can arrange any meeting with him. He represents the owner and the rights to the data, in this case, Louis S.  I have everything but I don't want to go around him for chain of custody reasons, professional courtesy, and friendship.

Kermit - scaredmonkeys.net


THE PLAN

Kyle Kingman - According to His Own Words

Kyle Kingman - March 20/08:  My intentions here at this forum weren't to just spew out all that I know. My intentions were to get a few trusted close people informed, armed, and organized. Then, once organized get a hold of Beth and present things in a controlled private and safe manner. THEN come up with a plan to procede that is well thought-out.

Kyle Kingman - March 20/08:  Since I got the go ahead from Tim, we can legally move forward. The document should follow-up the screen shots and trap content description. We can sent the document after the initial dialog. I trust then she (Beth) will be interested in the document.

The contents of the document should be discussed and agreed upon by the birds. Since I'm new here, I should take a back seat to this IMO. I would think it would be a case synthesis which culminates with the trap contents and lack of interest and motivation to fully process the site. Perhaps Beth will then use the document to create the proper motivation using the information to apply political pressure from both sides.

he problem I ran into earlier with the FBI was that their hands are tied to do anything unless they're invited to the party. I think political pressure properly applied will ensure an invite to the party. Thoughts?

Title - perhaps "Case Synthesis and Search Results", or something to that effect.

jen3560 - scaredmonkeys.net

[/quote]

Could Kyle Kingman be alluding to his contact with the FBI when he sent the agency six screen shots of the December 30th observation dive?

Janet

+++++++

oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #739 3/3 -
« Reply #79 on: March 03, 2008, 05:47:47 PM »

Video 2: Dec 30th - ROV and Diver visual-only inspection of trap. This is the dive Dateline and Tim Miller witnessed, also the dive footage the screen captures I made came from that were posted by Robin at BNH. I sent these 6 screen shots to the FBI and the FBI only. I was shocked to see them posted. I thought we had a security breach on the boat from my workstation or a leak from the FBI. Turns out the FBI gave them to Dave H. after he couldn't get them from me. After Tim Miller told Dave that we found her in a trap with 99.9% certainty (this is pre-diver inspection), Dave very reasonably requested them from me. I badly wanted to send them to him, but couldn't. Apparently, shortly therafter the FBI send the screen shots to Dave anyway, and therefore Robin had them.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2668.msg360047;topicseen#msg360047

AN ONGOING OUTREACH FOR FUNDS.  WHY?

Considering the Persistence's ROV analyst has determine that Natalee Holloway's remains were inside the cage/trap and ... he has also determined that nothing case related is in any of the remaining targets ... why was there an ongoing outreach for funds?

Janet

++++++++

Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman:  I took the proportions of the body form from the head, to shoulder, to a 90 degree angle which I believed to be the hem line of Natalee's skirt. I then took those proportions and matched them to the photo of Natalee with what she was last seen wearing. The proportions matched within an inch from head, to shoulder, to skirt line. Based on this comparison and with what we believed we saw in the Dec 29th video, Tim Miller contacted the family and told them the 99.9% comment. I told Tim not to do anything until we have forensic results back after the site is processed. Jan 7th we sampled the contents and in my opinion we found the skirt under the sand along with the other items The blue fabric was found right where the skirt is pictured. If it isn't her, it will forever haunt me as a major cosmic WTF.

Kyle Kingman: The logs are in a safe somewhere. John and Ryan Poff (one of John's project managers) knows where it is. I can't get copies of the logs at this time. Perhaps in a few months. The target locations are in the safe, although I also have them in a safe spot. I don't care about the other targets though. I don't think any of it is of any potential interest. Mainly junk, coral, and debris.

Kermit - scaredmonkeys.net


HOWEVER


JOHN SILVETTI - DAVE HOLLWAY

jdsurveyor1 Newbie Posts: 11
John Silvetti, the Persistence and the Search for Natalee «
Reply #13 on: April 03, 2008, 07:52:13 PM »

The important thing is to raise funds. It will require corporate support as well as private donations. Dave and Beth have been doing a great job getting the word out and while I was on the island, Dave put me in contact with the head of the Hotel Association who is working on raising a sizeable amount ...

http://blogsfornatalee.com/forum/index.php?topic=8476.msg334979#msg334979


JOHN SILVETTI

BFN
Quote from: LegallyLex on April 03, 2008, 07:42:52 PM

John, a lot of BFN posters have asked me how much money would be needed to complete the search. Can you provide an estimate on what amount would be needed?

John: It is very difficult to say, since Louis has not selected a ROV vessel and we do not know how much of a humanitarian discount we can count on by the vessel and ROV owners, but my guess is that we will be looking at around 1 million dollars.


LOUIS SCHAEFER

Holloway searchers need help
Thursday, February 28, 2008 | 8:21 PM

A Kemah businessman has been on the front lines of the search for Natalee, spending over a million dollars of his own money. Over the past four months, he's paid for an underwater search.
 
The morning we were there, Louis Schafer was signing a wire transfer for $250,000. The money used to operate a sophisticated, deep sea survey boat, named the Persistence.

"I've dedicated a million dollars, I've gone way above that," said Louis Schafer of Underwater Expeditions. "I feel like it's time to ask for help from the American people that want to see this case solved."

Natalee Holloway traveled to Aruba two years ago to celebrate her high school graduation and disappeared. Natalee was last seen with Joran Van der Sloot who says he does not know what happened to her.

Schafer made a fortune in the deep sea diving business for oil rig removal and installation. He had access to unique technology and a team of experts that could find just about anything.
 
"So we have completely mapped the ocean floor, we know every object that's there, we know every object that could be a container holding her in the sea," he said.

A relentless search Schafer and his team say will stop, if they don't get more funding.

"And we all feel, I'm speaking from everybody on the team, that she's in one of the targets we have not looked at yet," Tim Trahan of Underwater Expeditions said. "We can't stop. I go to sleep at night thinking we've located it, we just need to get to it."

The search of the rest of those targets will stop this week. For more information on how you can help,

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/local&id=5988951


KYLE KINGMAN

THE SEARCH FOR NATALEE HOLLOWAY

Kyle Kingman - 02/15/2008

Although we have searched and ruled out an extensive portion of the original planned search area, a substantial portion of the high-probability area yet remains to be explored. Now, following a publicly confirmed admission that Natalee Holloway was disposed at sea, we are confident that completing the focused search area will bring closure. We therefore formally invite and request anyone who this humanitarian effort has touched to get involved and to help support the remaining search efforts. Donations are being handled by Texas Equusearch, a 501 (c) (3) nonprofit organization. Please come beside those who have already given so much to help ensure a proper funeral in Alabama for Natalee Holloway. Please make all donations marked as: "Holloway search".

To learn more about Texas Equusearch and to help support the search for Natalee Holloway, check out: http://www.texasequusearch.org/donate.html

Texas EquuSearch Office:
4013 FM 517, Suite B
Dickinson, Texas 77539
P. O. Box 395, Dickinson, Texas 77539

Office: (281) 309-9500
Fax: (281) 534-6719
Toll Free: (877) 270-9500
Email: donate@texasequusearch.org

Posted by Kyle Kingman
http://nholloway.blogspot.com/2008/02/support-effort.html


TIM TRAHAN

Holloway searchers need help
hursday, February 28, 2008 | 8:21 PM
By Cynthia Cisneros

A relentless search Schafer and his team say will stop, if they don't get more funding.

"And we all feel, I'm speaking from everybody on the team, that she's in one of the targets we have not looked at yet," Tim Trahan of Underwater Expeditions said. "We can't stop. I go to sleep at night thinking we've located it, we just need to get to it."

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/local&id=5988951


LOUIS SCHAEFER - JOHN SILVETTI - TIM MILLER - DAVE HOLLOWAY

Debbie
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #820 6/10/09 -
« Reply #598 on: June 18, 2009, 11:29:24 PM »»

Okay... there was/is no conspiracy with the Persistence.  Louis, John, Tim and Dave are trying to get the funds to complete the search on the targets.... they are working together.. 
 
Slam me, bash me, I don't care, but it is the truth.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=5127.msg845027;topicseen#msg845027

What happen to the playing of the "Big Card".

1.  Could it be that it was at this point that John Silvetti got wind that the contents of the trap which he afforded unchallenged to the Aruban enemy was about to be exposed and ... damaged control was where it was at.  I do not have a clue about Tim Trahan but ... Kyle Kingman did benefit from John Silvetti through career opportunities that summer or ....

2.  Could the "Big Card" have been nothing but BS in a desperate attempt by Kyle Kingman to pursuade the Natalee's Freebirds that the timing was not right to release the document exposing the John Silvetti/Tim Trahan betrayal.  After all ... career opportunity compliments of Silvetti were in the balance.

Think abut it.  Beth Holloway was never contacted and the "BIG CARD" was never placed

Janet

++++++

Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words
   
Kyle Kingman:  Well, it's all going to happen. The big card will soon be played.  I just had a secret meeting with Tim Trahan and by proxy, Louis Shafer.[/color] Tomorrow, Tim Trahan will get in touch with Beth Holloway in regards to the trap footage and missing evidence.  We're getting geared up to play the conspiracy cover-up card on Aruba and force the bogus investigation out into the open. We believe the trap footage may be the missing piece which will raise a BIG question in the minds of the public everywhere.

Kermit - scaredmonkeys.net


Klaasend
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #787 12/24/08 -
« Reply #411 on: December 30, 2008, 02:53:44 PM »

According to Jen in an email to Klaas ...

Approximately May 2008 Kyle began dodging questions for details (we had asked for names of Aruban police and divers to be included in our documentation of these events), hedging on moving forward with this, and then he completely disappeared from our board.
 
During that time, we learned Kyle had never contacted Beth, or Dave, or the FBI with this information.
 
We put our original plan into motion - that of presenting this information in a clear and concise manner, and we sent it to Beth Holloway.
 
Beth was disturbed, needed time to digest the information, and wanted to share it with someone she trusts.
 
When Tim Miller was returning to Aruba this past fall, Beth gave us permission to release this information publicly.

At that point, we gave it to John Kelly, Carmen Adams with the FBI, and got it ready for public consumption.

Entire Email:
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4269.msg603349#msg603349


++++++


KYLE KINGMAN - CAREER OPPORTUNITIES?

SUMMER, 2008

The Travels and Ponderings of Kyle Kingman

Saturday, August 2, 2008
Through Skøyen Station - Norway, 12-July 2008

On the 7th of July 2008, I flew from Newark to Copenhagen, Denmark. After a 7 ½ hr flight from Newark, I was relieved to land in Denmark. I think the Copenhagen airport was actually a shopping mall disguised as an airport.

<snipped>

The North Sea is a cold, volatile beast. One moment it is tranquil and picturesque, while the next it is an explosive, churning, and bone-chilling frenzy brimming with white caps. Last night, a long low-profile work vessel was operating within a mile of our vessel.

The offshore project manager, John told me that recently 18 people drowned on that same boat when it sank.

Posted by Kyle Kingman
http://kylekingman.blogspot.com/2008/08/through-skyen-station-norway-12-july.html
http://kylekingman.blogspot.com/


Saturday, August 2, 2008
- Ulsteinvik to Cairo- 24-July
2345 hrs, Thursday July 24th – Cairo, Egypt

It’s 0200 hrs local time. Walking off the plane… “At least it’s not as hot as UAE”, I think to myself. “Please God; let my driver be waiting for me”. I was contacted about 12 hours earlier in Norway by a Dutch agent who needed me in Cairo ASAP and they were not afraid to pay a high price to get me here. All I know is there was to be a driver waiting for me. I don’t know who the client is, what the job is, what I’m doing in Egypt, or if I will even be staying in Egypt.

Posted by Kyle Kingman
http://kylekingman.blogspot.com/2008/08/ulsteinvik-to-cairo-24-july.html
http://kylekingman.blogspot.com/


Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman:  Sorry for dissapearing for so long. I've been traveling quite a bit to a few places, then to Norway, and am now in Cairo for about 5 weeks. I'll be headed to Lafayette when I get done in Egypt and will be in close contact with John then. I'll provide an update when I'm able. I hope you're all well.

Kermit @ scaredmonkeys.net

While attempting to comprehend the Persistence story ... I have discovered that some who possess an Aruban agenda have successfully persuaded others who are held in high regard ... others who previously supported the contention that a coverup was preventing justice from prevail for Natalee Holloway ... to become participants for self-serving benefits.

Those successful pursuaders are now in a position to give credibility to their despicable actions ... their despicable words .... meant to further the Aruban coverup agenda.

The dates of the following quotes of Kyle Kingman's own words  implies that the rights to the ROV footage were not sold to Kurtis Productions.

Janet

++++++

Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman - May 8/08:  I've talked with Peter Shouten numerous times back in February. He hasn't seen anything but knows about the blue fabrics. DeVries and Endemol was interested in purchasing the ROV footage and I was working between them, ABC, and CBS to strike a deal. DeVries also wanted to arrange a meeting. THEN the Dateline special aired and killed it all. It wasn't that they (Endemol, ABCs 20-20, and CBSs 48-Hours) were no longer interested, its just that too much of the story was told and messed up by NBC to re-hash the entire case and air the footage as a breaking story.  I should clarify that the footage proceeds (if sold) wouldn't even have covered the cost of the project, but it would have helped.

Kyle Kingman - June 10/08:  Well, it's all going to happen. The big card will soon be played.  I just had a secret meeting with Tim Trahan and by proxy, Louis Shafer. Tomorrow, Tim Trahan will get in touch with Beth Holloway in regards to the trap footage and missing evidence. We're getting geared up to play the conspiracy cover-up card on Aruba and force the bogus investigation out into the open. We believe the trap footage may be the missing piece which will raise a BIG question in the minds of the public everywhere.

Kyle Kingman - June 16/08:  On the other hand, those differences has also caused a rift between Tim Trahan/Louis and myself with John (although John and I remain close friends and colleagues). The result is Tim, Louis and I are moving forward and John [Silvetti] is left out of the loop. Tim Trahan has allied himself with me. What John's doing in Aruba, I am not entirely sure now although I know it's got to do with the pond search and some business relations. loathe the thought of going around John with the trap info but that's Tim's decision, not mine. It was Tim who wanted me involved in where we are going now.

Kyle Kingman:  Louis does have legal rights to the footage regardless of Underwater Expeditions status. Louis personally signed the checks for the search.

Kermit - scaredmonkeys.net


Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman - March 20/08:  Since I got the go ahead from Tim, we can legally move forward. The document should follow-up the screen shots and trap content description. We can sent the document after the initial dialog. I trust then she (Beth) will be interested in the document.

The contents of the document should be discussed and agreed upon by the birds. Since I'm new here, I should take a back seat to this IMO. I would think it would be a case synthesis which culminates with the trap contents and lack of interest and motivation to fully process the site. Perhaps Beth will then use the document to create the proper motivation using the information to apply political pressure from both sides.

The problem I ran into earlier with the FBI was that their hands are tied to do anything unless they're invited to the party. I think political pressure properly applied will ensure an invite to the party. Thoughts?

Title - perhaps "Case Synthesis and Search Results", or something to that effect.

jen3560 - scaredmonkeys.net

Could it be that in January, 2008 ... following the Nicaragua hoax ... there was a meeting of the minds between Louis Shaeffer, John Silvetti and Tim Miller with Kurtis productions regarding a documentary on the Persistence undertaking.  However ... when the blurbs below are considered ... all segments of the documentary fall short in regards to the contents of the trap/cage discovered by the Persistence ... the contents of the trap/cage afforded unchallened to the Arubans by John Silvetti.

Could it be that the selling of the rights to the uncut/unedited ROV footage was not an issue in the Kurtis documentary.

I suspect IF negotiations did take place for the rights to the entire ROV footage ... those negotiation took place with major networks following the completion of the production of the Kurtis documentary ... WHAT HAPPENED TO NATALEE HOLLOWAY.

Considering Dateline was on board the Persistence right up until December 30, 2007 and ... Bill Kurtis did not arrive on the Island until the end of January, 2008 ... the Kurtis documentary must of been filmed in February, 2008.

Who ... besides Louis Shaeffer ... were personally compensated for their role in the documentary?

Janet

+++++++++

THE KURTIS DOCUMENTARY

SEPTEMBER, 2008 - UNITED STATES

Big Spender
 
Upcoming Airings:
Thursday, September 18 @ 11pm/10C
Friday, September 19 @ 3am/2C
Sunday, September 21 @ 4pm/3C

Bill Kurtis hosts this documentary special that looks at the case that shocked the nation–the disappearance of 18-year-old Natalee Holloway on the island of Aruba on May 30, 2005. Natalee was last seen alive leaving a bar with three young local men, who became the prime suspects. Natalee’s mother, Beth, is convinced that the men know what happened to her daughter, but authorities have been unable to come up with definitive proof that they are responsible for her death. Kurtis examines the key questions in the case: Will Natalee’s body ever be found? Why can’t authorities solve the case? And where did the investigation go wrong?

http://www.aetv.com/listings/episode_details.do?episodeid=360922&airingid=360996


JANUARY, 2009 - NEW ZEALAND

What Happened To Natalee Holloway
CRIME & INVESTIGATION – Sunday 11 January, 9.30pm

In December of 2007, eight men from across the United States set out on an extraordinary mission. On a specially equipped, multi-million dollar ship, they will travel to the deep waters off the island of Aruba. They are searching not for sunken treasure, but something far more valuable to them, a missing 18 year-old named Natalee Holloway

http://www.throng.co.nz/documentary/what-happened-natalee-holloway


MARCH, 2009 - ASIA

What Happened to Natalee Holloway?
Thursday 12 March 8:00AM HK/SIN/MAL 7:00AM Thai/WIB
Thursday 12 March 2:00PM HK/SIN/MAL 1:00PM Thai/WIB
Saturday 14 March 1:00PM HK/SIN/MAL 12:00PM Thai/WIB

In December of 2007, eight men from across the United States will set out on an extraordinary mission. On a specially equipped, multi-million dollar ship, they will travel to the deep waters off the island of Aruba. They are searching not for sunken treasure, but something far more valuable to them – a missing 18 year-old named Natalee Holloway.

The leader of the effort is Tim Miller, founder of Texas EquuSearch and the father of a 16 year- old girl who was kidnapped and murdered in 1984. Miller has now taken on the recovery of Natalee Holloway as a personal calling. Miller and Natalee Holloway’s father Dave Holloway, believe that Natalee was likely placed in a crab trap or a steel drum and dumped 3-5 miles offshore, which is where they will focus the search.

Miller has assembled a team of underwater engineering experts from Underwater Expeditions and will bring an arsenal of resources, including hi-tech sonar scanning equipment, underwater video and the help of the FBI and Dutch authorities. The team has but one goal: to bring Natalee home.

Kurtis Productions has been granted exclusive access to what will be the most extensive deep water search to date for Holloway’s body. In this documentary special, Bill Kurtis will join the search and document the recovery mission. He will also revisit Natalee Holloway’s disappearance and subsequent investigation to try and answer the questions on everyone’s mind – where is Natalee? And will her case ever be solved?

http://www.citvasia.com/detailssynopsis.aspx?libId=336&sId=168&sTime=1200


+++++++


KURTIS PRODUCTION DOCUMENTARY?

Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman - 02/12/08: We are all holding up well. I just flew back to New Jersey for a much needed break. I've been on the Persistence in Aruba since the 15th of December and will be back on board in about a week amid ROV dives. Things have only just begun to get interesting. We'll likely require a film crew on board for most of the remaining work, so once aired you'll have a lot more information.

Kyle Kingman: Louis is currently working with someone who I do not know to put together some documentary on the case, the way it was handled, and what happened during the search. I learned this from Tim T. yesterday. I do not know how far along this documentary is. I have not had any part in it. In fact, I heard this documentary has distanced most everyone from Louis. Louis was sold on the idea that it will make him a lot of money.

Kermit - scaredmonkeys.net

If the following quotes are revealing the truth ... they imply that in June, 2008 ... Kyle Kingman, Tim Trahan and Louis Schaefer were about to expose ... without the knowledge of John Silvetti ... the ROV footage as proof that Natalee Holloway's remains may have been in that trap.

Obviously ... at this point in time ... Louis Schaefer has not yet sold the rights to the segments of ROV footage that imply Natalee Holloway's remains could have been in the trap.

Considering Beth Holloway was never contacted ... could it be that potential lawsuits against Louis Schaefer ... the owner of the boat ... were behind a decision not to proceed with the playing of the BIG CARD.

Think about it.  Those ... private and corporate ... who substantially donated to the Persistence endeavor ... substantially donated with the understanding that the only objective was to locate Natalee Holloway's remains in the name of justice for Natalee and closure for the family ...  would be asking the hard questions if the encompassing self-beneficial dynamics were realized.

1.  John Silvetti's conflict of interest - business opportunities in the region.
2.  Louis Schaefer's mapping of oil (?).

Janet

++++++

ROV FOOTAGE - THE BIG CARD!

Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman - June 10/08:  Well, it's all going to happen. The big card will soon be played.  I just had a secret meeting with Tim Trahan and by proxy, Louis Shafer. Tomorrow, Tim Trahan will get in touch with Beth Holloway in regards to the trap footage and missing evidence. We're getting geared up to play the conspiracy cover-up card on Aruba and force the bogus investigation out into the open. We believe the trap footage may be the missing piece which will raise a BIG question in the minds of the public everywhere.

Kyle Kingman - June 16/08:  On the other hand, those differences has also caused a rift between Tim Trahan/Louis and myself with John (although John and I remain close friends and colleagues). The result is Tim, Louis and I are moving forward and John [Silvetti] is left out of the loop. Tim Trahan has allied himself with me. What John's doing in Aruba, I am not entirely sure now although I know it's got to do with the pond search and some business relations. loathe the thought of going around John with the trap info but that's Tim's decision, not mine. It was Tim who wanted me involved in where we are going now.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4554.msg679597;topicseen#

Kermit - scaredmonkeys.net


JOHN SILVETTI - CONFLICTS OF INTEREST

Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman:  I requested all samples to be brought on board the Persistence for visual and top-side photographs. It was ignored by the project lead (John S.) who felt the Arubans would follow whatever they needed to do as far as proper protocol.

Kyle Kingman:  John is not a believer in the trap. He took ALE's word as gospel that it wasn't case related, yet never studied the videos or bothered to inquire further. He had plans on doing business with Aruba and in S. America and he didn't want to hurt any feelings by talks hinting at lack of complete trust and friendship. I did not feel the same and we had a major difference in opinion. He was the one who never pressed ALE to be completely open with us with the trap evidence. I would have forced them to. However, John was the one paying my invoices so I was forced to sit back and hope for the best.

Kyle Kingman: I get done in the survey room backing up the ROV dive and head to the back deck to talk to the Polis divers and see what they sampled and see the Polis boat way in the distance heading away fast. John doesn't seem concerned at all, but I am very dissapointed, concerned, and burning inside because I have a feeling that I/we will never know what they took from the trap. That evening I talked to John asking when we plan on recovering the trap. Previously this was part of the talks and plan, but this time he doesn't seem concerned about ever looking into the trap further. After John verbally BASHED me about the trap for what I said to Tim Miller about the sand body-form and that I believed her skirt was under the sand, John pretty much committed himself to the belief the trap wasn't what we were after. This shocked me because it was exactly what we were looking for- a fish trap lost at sea with human remains.

Kermit - scaredmonkeys.net

Other than Joran's "confession" on the Range Rover recording ... Joran's "confession" where he states that he witnessed Natalee shaking ...  archives imply the rest of his words were all lies and ... those lies had the ability to:

1.  exonerate the Kalpoes.
2.  exonerate Paulus.
3.  exonerate the sons of the elite.
4.  negate the corrupt investigation.
5.  negate the witness and suspect statements.
6.  negate the suspicions that dictated the detainment of all suspects.
7.  pacify the family of Natalee Holloway.
8.  close the Natalee Holloway case.
9.  negate the contents of the trap/cage.
10.  negate Joran's actual extent of wrongdoing.

The above outcomes of the Range Rover "confession" recording fit perfectly into the Aruban coverup agenda.  This is why I believe that the "fifth car trip" secret meeting in January involved Peter Devries, Patrick vander Eem, Joran van der Sloot and the Aruban "powers that be".  It was a collaboration intended to bring closure the the Natalee Holloway case with Joran vander Sloot taking the fall for disposal of a body which would warrant a slap on the wrist if anything ... while giving the family of Natalee a measure of closure..

Think about it.  The Aruban "powers the be" were in the know regarding the trap/cage.  Aruban divers had recovered the contents on January 1, 2008.  Damage control was where it was at .  The recovery had to be distanced ... disregarded.

Janet

+++++++++++

Klaasend
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #718 2/01 -
« Reply #375 on: February 02, 2008, 01:41:46 AM », 2008

Pauw & Witteman
Phone Interview (Grandma's house)
February 4, 2008

Question: The news said tonight that it's about the news that after you made out with Natalee that you , that she got sick, and became lifeless, and that you called a friend and he came with a boat and that you went on the boat with her and that you threw her in the water, you glide her in the water.

Joran: Yes, that's what I said.

Translation - Marco@RU

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2561.msg336476;topicseen#msg336476


RANGE ROVER TRANSCRIPT

Joran:  His boat was standing there by the pier, and I knew that also, you know, and he told me, then help me for a while, so we have taken to the boat .
 
Patrick:  Lifted her up.
 
Joran: Yes, the two of us just quickly.
 
Patrick:   And nobody saw you then either?
 
Joran:  Nobody.
 
Patrick:  Yes, but it is near the Marriott, these boats there?
 
Joran: Yes, but there is nobody, Nobody pays attention, you are walking there in the dark.  Even if you walk there with someone they think you are playing.
 
Patrick:  Probably think someone is drunk.
 
Joran:  They do not pay attention at all.


Arubans wary of fifth car trip in Holloway case
Monday 25 February 2008
 
Dutch tv crime reporter Peter R de Vries set up a fifth car trip to try and get Joran van der Sloot to confess to murdering US teenager Natalee Holloway after the Aruban public prosecution department said the original four recordings did not contain enough evidence, the Volkskrant reported on Saturday.
 
Aruban officials told De Vries and his team at a secret hotel meeting that the tapes did not contain enough new evidence, the paper says in a reconstruction of events surrounding the tv programme which claimed to solve the mystery of her disappearance.  

Aruban public prosecutor Hans Mos told the paper he did not want to have anything to do with the extra car trip because he was afraid it could be construed as entrapment and blow the case.
 
The final car trip with Van der Sloot and his 'friend' Patrick van der Eem took place on January 29 in a borrowed car which had been hastily kitted out with recording equipment, the paper said. The original had already been sold.  

During that trip, Van der Sloot said he was not sure if Natalee had been dead when a friend dumped her body at sea.  After the press release was issued claiming the case had been solved but without giving any further details, De Vries told the paper he hoped that Van der Sloot would again phone his 'friend'.
 
But website VKMag picked up a page on De Vries' website which identified Van der Sloot. The page had been prepared for release after the programme was aired on Sunday but had gone live by mistake.

http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2008/02/arubans_wary_of_fifth_car_trip.php

THE PERSISTENCE - RANGE ROVER CONNECTION?
I was a believer in the Range Rover confession for a short time following the Special but ... then I began to dissect Joran's claims one at a time and ... came to the conclusion when compared with the archives that ALL his words ...  other than the shaking ... were nothing but lies ... lies that conformed perfectly with the furthering the Aruban cover up agenda of deception.

If the following quote is taken into consideration ... logic dictates that Beth Holloway must have her doubts regarding the Range Rover confession recording in regards to Joran implying that Natalee's demise took place on the beach.

Janet

+++++++

CNN LARRY KING LIVE
Update on Natalee Holloway Investigation
Aired February 23, 2006 - 21:00   ET

TED ROWLANDS, GUEST HOST: Tonight, Natalee Holloway's parents speak out. Now that the chief suspect in her disappearance, Joran Van Der Sloot, has talked, nearly nine months after their beautiful daughter vanished in Aruba, Natalee's mom, Beth Holloway Twitty, and her dad, Dave Holloway, talk about trying to keep hope alive. ....

BETH HOLLOWAY, NATALEE HOLLOWAY'S MOTHER: I think that was one of his excuses of why they stopped at his apartment. His apartment, by the way, is detached away from the main residence. And, you know, if you've got an individual that you're going to take advantage of, it's not likely that you're going to go to the beach. You're going to go to your apartment. And we believe that's where they stopped, and that's where the incident occurred.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0602/23/lkl.01.html

If Beth Holloway is a believer in Kyle Kingman's own words regarding the John Silvetti betrayal ... the betrayal that implies that her daughter's remains were afforded unchallenged to the Aruban enemy ... logic dictates that looking back she must have had some questions regarding aspects of the Range Rover "confession" of Joran van der Sloot ... aspects of the Range Rover "confession" that implies a trap/cage discovered by the Persistents was not case related.

Janet

++++++

Klaasend
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #787 12/24/08 -
« Reply #411 on: December 30, 2008, 02:53:44 PM »

According to Jen in an email to Klaas ...

Approximately May 2008 Kyle began dodging questions for details (we had asked for names of Aruban police and divers to be included in our documentation of these events), hedging on moving forward with this, and then he completely disappeared from our board.
 
During that time, we learned Kyle had never contacted Beth, or Dave, or the FBI with this information.
 
We put our original plan into motion - that of presenting this information in a clear and concise manner, and we sent it to Beth Holloway.
 
Beth was disturbed, needed time to digest the information, and wanted to share it with someone she trusts.
 
When Tim Miller was returning to Aruba this past fall, Beth gave us permission to release this information publicly.

At that point, we gave it to John Kelly, Carmen Adams with the FBI, and got it ready for public consumption.

Entire Email:
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4269.msg603349#msg603349

 

Nobody should underestimate Beth Holloway's insight.  Beth's initial reaction to the preview of the Range Rover confession recording was the same as my reaction when I watched the Special.  It was not until sometime later that I realized that all was not how it first appeared.  It was not until later that I realized that the Range Rover confession and the trap/cage discovered by the Persistence did not equate.

Janet

++++++

THE COMPLETE INTERVIEW WITH BETH TWITTY
Thursday 31 January 2008

Peter R. DeVries: “This is a full confession.”

Beth Twitty: “You got every bit of it. That son of a bitch. Oh God.”

Peter R. DeVries:“No regrets at all.”

Beth Twitty: “No, he don’t even know if she’s dead or not. No.”

Peter R. DeVries:“He only seems to care for himself.”

Beth Twitty: “Oh my Gosh.”

Peter R. DeVries:“And he wants to profit from it.”

Beth Twitty: “Oh my gosh, he has just…”

Peter R. DeVries:“Now he can abuse it.”

Beth Twitty: “Oh my gosh.”

Peter R. DeVries:“Unbelievable isn’t it.”

Beth Twitty: “Yeah. God. It’s all true. Oh my gosh. From everything. From the Holiday inn. How he got home…”

Peter R. DeVries:“He lied, everything was a lie.”

Beth Twitty: “What he did with the shoes and… Oh my gosh.”

Peter R. DeVries: “It’s a full confession.”

Beth Twitty: “He doesn’t even care, he doesn’t even care that, oh they didn’t even know if she was dead. Oh my gosh. They didn’t even know.”

Peter R. DeVries:“Did you notice how he talked about her?”

Beth Twitty: “Yeah, the don’t even know. Oh my god they could have dumped her alive in the ocean, just unconscious. I mean they don’t even know.”

Peter R. DeVries:“Maybe in coma, or…”

Beth Twitty: “They don’t even know. Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. Oh dear God, he didn’t even know. He is just gonna take a life. He is just gonna take a life. Just take a life, with no remorse, no worry, not even a sleepless night. I hope his hell is about to unfold. God. You know. Peter, I always thought that Joran’s life was already a living hell, but it’s about to begin! Now it’s about to begin. It’s about to begin. God. He is awfull, he is awfull. He doesn’t deserve to exist on this world, he doesn’t deserve it. He is awfull. I hope his living hell is about to begin and I hope he never gets a night sleep. He hope he never gets another moment of peace, I hope his whole entire peace is about to be disturbed beyond his belief. What he has done… Look what they have done. Look what they have done to Natalee, look what they have done to our country, look what they have done to…”

Peter R. DeVries:“To you.”

Beth Twitty: “Look what they have done. Look what they have done to Natalee. That son of a bitch.”

Peter R. DeVries:“He is saying: ‘It was not my fault. I couldn’t help it.’ But how would you describe what happened there? Do you believe that?”

Beth Twitty: “He didn’t care, he didn’t care, he didn’t care. What I wanna know is: he is just right there with here and dear god they just dispose of her body, I mean in the ocean.”

Peter R. DeVries:“He went home and went to sleep.”

Beth Twitty: “And was planning all the things he was going to do to cover himself. That’s why he got on the internet so quickly. Just what you said when he called this friend of his, Daury, he said, he know somebody to call when he got in a situation like this. What path is he on, how many women could he do this to and how many women did he potentially in his presence that could have died. Oh my god.”

Peter R. DeVries:“But it is a full confession Beth. He can’t get away with this.”

Beth Twitty: “This has to be it! This has to be it! I guess enough is enough. Enough is enough. When I think back on it. When I first got on the island, I couldn’t look on the water, I could not look out on the ocean. And I didn’t know why. But I couldn’t look at the water. I know now: it was all real you know I had this gut feeling that she was… Something seemed so evil about the water, something seemed so evil, so bad and I din’t know why, but I know why now.”

http://www.peterrdevries.com/quote-beth.htm

If Kyle Kingman's words regarding network negotiations can be believed ... does the following quote imply that Louis Shaeffer was in the dark regarding the implication of the ROV footage up until the time that Kyle and Tim T. made the decision to benefit through the Networks.  It appears that bringing Shaeffer in on it all may have been the result of a technicality in regards to rights to the ROV footage.

IMO

Janet

++++++

Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman:    She [BETH] needs to know exactly what we found in the proper timing. The way to do that would be through Tim Trahan and I. I can arrange any meeting with him. He represents the owner and the rights to the data, in this case, Louis S. I have everything but I don't want to go around him for chain of custody reasons, professional courtesy, and friendship.
 
The next step:

I will soon propose a meeting with Beth and other family members, myself, Tim Trahan, Peter DeVries, and whomever else necessary to go over the ROV video, contents, and case status. I would like a couple people very familiar with the case documents also present to help connect dots during the meeting. I would prefer meeting towards the end of April or mid-May to allow adequate time for things to shake themselves out if is going to. If necessary, I have an ABC (20/20) and CBS (early show) film crew ready and willing to take part in such a meeting should it require press coverage. I've already had a meeting with ABC about this and they are "definitely interested" at the executive level. We met in mid-Feb about this already. The question becomes timing, who needs to be there, and whether or not it's covered by the press. I prefer not, but it may be useful. DeVries doesn't need to be there in my opinion but he's good for ratings and helps ABC be cooperative if needed.

Kermit - scaredmonkeys.net

I suspect that Marco's contact with Dave Holloway took place following the meeting which included the Detective, the Aruban "powers that be" and possibly Marco ... the meeting where the origins of the "false lead" were collaborated ... collaborated with the knowledge of John Silvetti.

Janet

+++++

Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman:  While we were searching shortly before Christmas, we were contacted by an Aruban detective who was involved in the Holloway case.  He claimed that his brother had a vision about Natalee¢s body offshore and had coordinates. He and his brother agreed to meet on the Persistence. The detective¢s brother gave what he thought were coordinates, but turned out to be a line of latitude. This latitude aligned with Arashi beach and came within a half mile of the fish trap.

Kyle Kingman:  Richardson was onboard the Persistence several times and attended the meetings on the boat.

Kyle Kingman:   After the Dec 30th dive John [Silvetti] didn't want Tim Miller on board the Persistence because he said Tim wasn't necessary any more and was a liability. I don't know what that exactly means, but Tim wasn't hurting anything except releasing the statements to the press and Holloways that we found Natalee.

Kermit - scaredmonkeys.net

Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman: He (Tim Miller) stepped off on or about the 1st of Jan to follow up on the false lead in Costa Rica (Nicaragua) IIRC.

Kermit - scaredmonkeys.net

Could it be that the Persistence endeavor was deceptively two fold from the getgo ... oil mapping and searching for Natalee Holloway's remains.  However ... it was not until the Dectective and (?) ... just prior to the sonar discovery ... entered the scenario that John S. sold out and ... he  became a participate in the Aruban coverup ... the Aruban coverup that had prevented justice from prevailing since May 30, 2005?

The timing of the Dectective and (?) entering the scene and ... the sonar discovery of the crab/trap is so coincidental.

I suspect it was at this period in time that the false lead was collaborated ... a false lead that would divert Tim Miller and Dave Holloway's attention away from the trap/cage.  Somehow I suspect that Mark Purcell was a participant somewhere in the deception.

However ... I do not believe that the clarity of ROV dive of December 29th was anticipated in the planning of the false lead ... the ROV dive which clearly showed the contents of the cage/trap and ... convinced Tim Miller 100% that the contents of the cage/trap were Natalee Holloways remains.

Janet

+++++

b]DOMPIG AND SATISH OR DEEPAK?

Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words[/b]

Kyle Kingman: Just before Christmas they are contacted by a detective and his brother who gave them information that turned out to be the correct latitude.

Kyle Kingman:  While we were searching shortly before Christmas, we were contacted by an Aruban detective who was involved in the Holloway case.  He claimed that his brother had a vision about Natalee¢s body offshore and had coordinates. He and his brother agreed to meet on the Persistence. The detective¢s brother gave what he thought were coordinates, but turned out to be a line of latitude. This latitude aligned with Arashi beach and came within a half mile of the fish trap.

Kyle Kingman:  IF a keydetective's brother knew the latitude the trap was disposed at or very near, then it's probable the detective knew the same.

Kyle Kingman:  The detective and his brother were both brown-skinned, but not black.

Kyle Kingman:  the detective was very internet and computer savy, which was unusual for the bulk of the Polis.

Kyle Kingman:  It seemed he knew who I was when we were introduced, and said something indicating he had been reading the blog.

Kyle Kingman:   The brother of the detective came to us and was very persistent over the information. He was almost in tears and just had to "clear his conscience" about it.  His brother, the detective came with him to 'validate him'.

Kyle Kingman:  I think he used his brother and gave us only the amount of information he felt we needed to come across the trap.  Basically, by using his brother and claiming the information he shared was only based on a vision, it distances the detective from responsibility and makes it hard to point back to him should it be a problem later.

Kyle Kingman:  However, this man was intelligent enough, cared about the case, yet was self implicated to a high enough level to want to be kept his knowledge a secret. He spoke well enough english and knew everything in my opinion.

Kyle Kingman:  The implications of this are tremendous. If true, it means that the early investigators knew where and how Natalee was disposed and it was kept secret and covered up.

Kyle Kingman:  Since the trap was only in 90ft of water and the detective knew about the latitude, did the Polis already know if it's location prior to the search?

Kyle Kingman:   The tip Dave got said the trap was 2-3 miles offshore. I found this one 2-3 miles offshore. 2.1-2.2 miles if memory serves.

Kyle Kingman:  The detective originally wouldn't meet with us and only wanted us to meet with his brother. We convinced him to meet along with his brother and made him feel as comfortable as possible. He reluctantly agreed but wouldn't talk.

Kyle Kingman:  After a while the detective started asking some questions and loosened up a bit. With the pointed questions he asked he proved he knew a lot, but we didn't press him

Kyle Kingman:  Here's a shocker: the confession from one of the former suspects I was refering to was NOT Joran.

Kermit @ scaredmonkeys.net


GEROLD DOMPIG - SEARCH THE OCEAN

Corruption in Paradise

Page 167/168:  We had recently gotten another tip that the boys did do something to Natalee and that they either left her at the boat launch or the lighthouse.  From there, they supposedly went to a field area where the gardener saw them while they planned their next move.  According to the tip, after that, they went home and returned the next day to the fishermen's huts to get a steel cage to put Natalee into; they then used a boat to carry her about two to three miles out into the ocean and drop her there.   The tip was sent in an e-mail, and we forwarded it to Dompig.   He claimed that was one of the reasons to search at sea now instead of at the landfill ...


FOX ONLINE - Jamie Colby - July 15, 2005

TIM MILLER: ... Gerold Dompig actually told us when Dave and I was over there; that he felt that Natalee was out in the water, that the night the fishermen's hut was broken into, a knife was stolen, a rope was stolen and a large crab trap was stolen.

Gerold Dompig's words were "Natalee was put in that crab trap, they put rocks in it and they took her out 3 to 5 miles and she's 800 to 1,000 feet deep" and we always thought about the water anyhow.

IF Kyle Kingman's words regarding exposing the "conspiracy" reflects the truth ... it appears that Louis S. complied.

How in the world was Kyle Kingman, Tim Trahan and Louis Schaefer planning on keeping all of this from John Silvetti?

Janet

+++++

ROV FOOTAGE - THE BIG CARD!

Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman - June 10/08:  Well, it's all going to happen. The big card will soon be played.  I just had a secret meeting with Tim Trahan and by proxy, Louis Shafer. Tomorrow, Tim Trahan will get in touch with Beth Holloway in regards to the trap footage and missing evidence. We're getting geared up to play the conspiracy cover-up card on Aruba and force the bogus investigation out into the open. We believe the trap footage may be the missing piece which will raise a BIG question in the minds of the public everywhere.

Kyle Kingman - June 16/08:  On the other hand, those differences has also caused a rift between Tim Trahan/Louis and myself with John (although John and I remain close friends and colleagues). The result is Tim, Louis and I are moving forward and John [Silvetti] is left out of the loop. Tim Trahan has allied himself with me. What John's doing in Aruba, I am not entirely sure now although I know it's got to do with the pond search and some business relations. loathe the thought of going around John with the trap info but that's Tim's decision, not mine. It was Tim who wanted me involved in where we are going now.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4554.msg679597;topicseen#

Kermit - scaredmonkeys.net

THE RANGE ROVER - PERSISTENCE CONNECTION

IF the Range Rover confession was a collaboration between Peter Devries and the Aruban "powers that be" in regards to the "fifth car trip" ... I contend that one of the projected outcomes would have been to distance the January 1, 2008 recovery of the contents of the trap/cage by the Aruban divers.   In other words ...  dID Peter Devries  become part of the cover up.

Another projected outcome would be to distance Paulus and the Kalpoes from direct implication in the events that encompass the disappearance of Natalee Holloway.

All three of above projected outcomes were accomplished.

TEXAS EQUUASEARCH - JOHN SILVETTI CONNECTION

Evidence Search Suspended
Posted on 11. Oct, 2009 by smckinney in Calendar of Events, Featured Articles

10/12/09 — We would like to thank all of our volunteers who came out and participated in the evidence search last week. Additionally, we want to thank our Florida members who made the trip for the search and additional training. It was a pleasure to have all of them in Texas.

We would like to extend special thanks to Love’s Marina in Crosby, Texas for providing our team a place to set up our command center for the week.

Special thanks go to the following companies for donating their resources and employees for the search:

RP Flight Systems

The Silvetti Group of Companies

Moffitt Customized Fueling

Hal Newsom’s Airboat Tours

Team Watters

http://texasequusearch.org/2009/10/evidence-search/

Credit: texasmom

http://texasequusearch.org/2009/10/message-from-tim-miller/#comments

Message from Tim Miller

Posted on 15. Oct, 2009 by smckinney in Featured Articles

I would like to address some of the comments made by “so-called” experts about Texas EquuSearch in recent weeks. First of all, we have the most valuable members/volunteers of any organization in existence. Occasionally, we have had to do things which are not the “normal” for a search organization. Case in point, Misty Cummings – I made the decision to help Misty get away from a very volatile situation. She was in danger for her life, and I felt that if something happened to Misty, we would lose any chance of finding Haleigh. That is ALL this was about. So, I enlisted the help of one of our volunteers who had befriended Misty during our time in Satsuma, Donna Brock. Donna did a wonderful job in keeping Misty safe and, until the “road rage” incident, was doing so under the radar. This was not about media attention. Again, as I have said many times, I will use whatever resources that are at my disposal to find Haleigh.
At the time of this posting, I am on my way to another search. Before I go, I am on my way to deposit a small check I received from a construction job I did, into the Texas EquuSearch account so that we can help another family. (See copy below.)

We were able to help bring closure to another family yesterday with the help of some hard working Texas EquuSearch members, along with the help of the local community who so willingly helped us because of the work we have done and continue to do.

I would invite any person who sits, wearing a suit on television, to come and put your jeans and boots on and join us on a real search. I wonder who our “so-called experts” are.

I would like to quote Abraham Lincoln:

If I tried to read, much less answer all the criticisms made of me, and all the attacks leveled against me, this office would have to be closed for all other business. I do the very best I know how, the very best I know how, the very best I can, I mean to keep on doing this down to the very end.

A. Lincoln

Credit: texasmom

REMINDER

THE BETRAYAL

Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman:   I requested all samples to be brought on board the Persistence for visual and top-side photographs. It was ignored by the project lead (John S.) who felt the Arubans would follow whatever they needed to do as far as proper protocol.


THE TARP

Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman:  07-Jan we dove on the trap with Aruban divers and our ROV recording the dive. They found the piece of blue tarp and blue denim-like fabric, and other things I can't identify.

Kyle Kingman:   I am 100% confident other important items are at that site and can be found during processing of the site with a suction system.  The only confirmation of items sampled were blue fabric and the piece of tarp.  This is the only thing Richardson and Mos independantly confirmed.  Remember, they each only confirmed one piece.  One confirmed blue fabric, the other confirmed tarp.  From the video you see both.

Kyle Kingman: Notice the end of the skirt is an identical match to the 90 degree angle in the sand. I believe her left arm was outstretched with her legs slightly bent. I did not edit the legs. I believe the tarp was placed over her and tucked around her, or perhaps tied down. I believe there are several rocks laying on the sand which were placed on the tarp, or inside the tarp over her body which explains their unusual location. Either way, the proportions appear promising.

Kyle Kingman: The blue tarp piece was found approx 6-10 ft away from the trap opening.


THE FABRIC

Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman: The fabric(s?) are not visible on either the Dec 29th or 30th dives. There is about an inch of sand over the fabrics. The fabrics are completely covered. The diver sampled the sand and found the fabric underneath the sand.

Kyle Kingsman: Jan 7th we sampled the contents and in my opinion we found the skirt under the sand along with the other items The blue fabric was found right where the skirt is pictured. If it isn't her, it will forever haunt me as a major cosmic WTF.

Kyle Kingman: In my opinion, the blue fabric is quite possibly Natalee's skirt. The divers found the denim where I suggested a week earlier (Dec 29th) to Tim Miller that there was likely Natalee's denim skirt under the sand. Also in my opinion, the deni-like fabric is a match in terms of color, quantity, and structure to Natalee's skirt. It's not a lot of denim folded in the bag, but then again her skirt was rather small.

Kyle Kingman:  The sediment in this case is fine-grained sand which is preferencially deposited to make a body form. For sand to preferentially deposit, there needs to be a lower energy state where the sand collects and stays. This can be achieved either with a shallow depression creating accomodation space and lower potential energy (not the case) or by creating small eddy currents due to surface friction. The sediment around the door area is being eroded or removed by currents. Where the body was, it is being deposited. Basically, the fabrics created enough resistence for sediment to preferentially collect on it. Further, bacterial staining due to decaying organics acts as a mild cementing agent. Combined, you will have sediment erosion around the body form and deposition on the body form which collects through time. In this case, possibly 2 1/2 years.

Kermit @ scaredmonkeys.net


REMINDER

THE ULTIMATE BETRAYAL

Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman: The Persistence had no divers on the 7th. Tim Trahan was our diver on the 30th-Dec, but he was out of the country at the time. The Aruban divers were on the police boat, dove from their boat, and returned to their boat. (March 11, 2008)

Kyle Kingman: They were immediately whisked away by the Aruban police and not seen of again by us on the 7th. (March 11, 2008)

Kyle Kingman: I get done in the survey room backing up the ROV dive and head to the back deck to talk to the Polis divers and see what they sampled and see the Polis boat way in the distance heading away fast. John doesn't seem concerned at all, but I am very dissapointed, concerned, and burning inside because I have a feeling that I/we will never know what they took from the trap. That evening I talked to John asking when we plan on recovering the trap. Previously this was part of the talks and plan, but this time he doesn't seem concerned about ever looking into the trap further. After John verbally BASHED me about the trap for what I said to Tim Miller about the sand body-form and that I believed her skirt was under the sand, John pretty much committed himself to the belief the trap wasn't what we were after. This shocked me because it was exactly what we were looking for- a fish trap lost at sea with human remains.

Kermit @ scaredmonkeys.net

A REMINDER

TIM MILLER

Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman:  On the night of the 30th (I believe this was Tim's last night on the Persistence) I approached Tim and proposed some ideas to him. I suggested that we shouldn't take the Aruban Polis divers at their word and proceed with planning a recovery of the trap. Also, I proposed the trap site may not be pristine or the Polis may have already knew about it. This statement was backed up by several comments we heard, behavior we observed, and other things. Tim told me he thought I was right but didn't know what to do about it.

Kyle Kingman:  This occurred on Dec 30th when the Arubans told us there wasn't anything of interest in the trap based on the visual-only inspection (Dateline and Tim Miller present). After the Dec 30th dive John didn't want Tim Miller on board the Persistence because he said Tim wasn't necessary any more and was a liability.  I don't know what that exactly means, but Tim wasn't hurting anything except releasing the statements to the press and Holloways that we found Natalee. Although likely true ...

Kyle Kingman:  I hadn't slept in 48 hours. I crashed for a few hours rest and by the time I got up Dateline and Tim Miller had left the boat. That is when John [Silvetti] assumed full control over the remainder of the project and had us searching in the deepest portions of our search area which coincided with Richardson's remarks. Richardson told us after the Jan-7th dive to keep searching in deep water.

Kyle Kingman: He (Tim Miller) stepped off on or about the 1st of Jan to follow up on the false lead in Costa Rica.

Kyle Kingman: We're being fed misinformation to keep us searching and out of their way while they cover their asses, destroy evidence, cover their tracks, and keep us out at sea and away from the trap.

TIM MILLER

Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman:  After the diver visual inspection of the trap he (Tim Miller) was obligated to report what the Aruban divers reported because although limited, it's the only information he had and the family rightfully wanted answers. It was a royal mess.

Kyle Kingman:   Tim Miller was never on the Persistence while I was not on board.  He stepped off on or about the 1st of Jan to follow up on the false lead in Costa Rica IIRC.

Kermit - scaredmonkeys.net

It is the expectation of Monkeys that Kyle Kingman does right anf reveals all that he observed and heard while on board the Persistence ... all that he observed and heard that appeared to further the Aruban cover up that has prevented justice from prevailing for Natalee Holloway since May 30, 2005.

Why is Tim Miller exempt from that same expectation?

Janet

KYLE KINGMAN

Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman:  I took the proportions of the body form from the head, to shoulder, to a 90 degree angle which I believed to be the hem line of Natalee's skirt. I then took those proportions and matched them to the photo of Natalee with what she was last seen wearing. The proportions matched within an inch from head, to shoulder, to skirt line.

Kyle Kingman:  Jan 7th we sampled the contents and in my opinion we found the skirt under the sand along with the other items.  The blue fabric was found right where the skirt is pictured. If it isn't her, it will forever haunt me as a major cosmic WTF.

Kyle Kingman:  John is not a believer in the trap.  He took ALE's word as gospel that it wasn't case related, yet never studied the videos or bothered to inquire further.  He had plans on doing business with Aruba and in S. America and he didn't want to hurt any feelings by talks hinting at lack of complete trust and friendship ...

Kyle Kingman: The logs are in a safe somewhere. John and Ryan Poff (one of John's project managers) knows where it is. I can't get copies of the logs at this time. Perhaps in a few months. The target locations are in the safe, although I also have them in a safe spot.  I don't care about the other targets though. I don't think any of it is of any potential interest. Mainly junk, coral, and debris.

Kermit - scaredmonkeys.net


TIM TRAHAN

Holloway searchers need help
Thursday, February 28, 2008 | 8:21 PM

A relentless search Schafer and his team say will stop, if they don't get more funding.

"And we all feel, I'm speaking from everybody on the team, that she's in one of the targets we have not looked at yet," Tim Trahan of Underwater Expeditions said. "We can't stop. I go to sleep at night thinking we've located it, we just need to get to it."

The search of the rest of those targets will stop this week. For more information on how you can help,

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/local&id=5988951


BETH HOLLOWAY

Dr. Phil - January 29, 2006

... If somebody presents you with false hope and false information, it's devastating.  

http://www.drphil.com/slideshows/slideshow/3041/?id=?id=&slide=3&null=null

Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman:   Richardson was very quick to dismiss the trap as case-relevant. Richardson was insisting that we keep looking FAR out to sea in very deep water.

-he was the one briefing the ALE divers on how to handle the site
-he was the one who handled all the evidence that came out of the water
-he was the one who admits to personally sending the fabric sample to the FBI for testing (although it got to the FBI two weeks after he said he sent it).


Kyle Kingman: Whether or not the trap we found was a match to the one stolen at the huts is almost irrelevant because the Polis have more connections to get what they need and have a PERFECT boat to transport it. The Polis boat is certainly large enough to hold the trap either in front of its consol or behind it, capable of running right to the beach at Arashi, and plenty powerful. Also, it is often seen cruising the beach and no one would ever look twice at it as doing something unusual. It’s also very capable at running night operations, has a depth sounder, GPS, compass, lights, dive ladder, etc


Kyle Kingman: One of the Polis divers told me that he thought we were in really deep water and that he was suprised how shallow it was. Also, another said "we're pretty far out here" when we were on site. I don't think the water depth proves or disproves anything. The ALE-provided latitude was very close to the trap. The trap was right on the edge of a drop off where it goes to 700-800ft of water very quickly, just to the south! They easily could have figured they were slightly south in very deep water when they tossed the trap. Further out in this case wasn't the solution. It was just as deep farther out and to the north/northwest. It got deeper to the south, not farther out.

Kermit - scaredmonkeys.net


 

When the date of Robin Holloway's post is considered and the date that the FBI received the samples taken from the trap ... what are the implication of her words?

Janet

+++++++

Hotshot
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #714 1/20 -
« Reply #446 on: January 23, 2008, 06:04:23 PM »

Today at 2:34pm, Reality wrote:
Without going into detail, there has been nothing found regarding Natalee other than some Coral and Debris, I'm sure Robin will explain."

Today at 2:38pm by Robin
If the prosecutors office has evidence relating to Natalee we would have known about it. The crew on the Persistence is working very hard to try, but still nothing of her. They did have something tested that didn't turn out to be anything to do with Natalee but it has been a few weeks ago.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2532.msg331495#msg331495

++++++++++

FBI ANALYSIS

Press release

Postbus 1163, Oranjestad, Aruba
Havenstraat 2
Oranjestad
Aruba

To All media
From The Public Prosecutor’s Office
Date February 26, 2008

Pages 1

Cloth found in crab trap not a match with sample of blouse Holloway, according to FBI Laboratory.

The Prosecutors’ Office of Aruba has received the results of the comparison tests done by the FBI Laboratory in the United States of America on clothing, cloth or a textile of some type recovered in January 2008 by an Aruban dive team inside a crab trap in about 90 feet of water, off the coast of Aruba. The Aruban dive team was directed to the crab trap by the crew of the vessel “Persistence” that is conducting a sea search looking for the body of Natalee Holloway. The Persistence is searching for a crab trap based on the story that the body of Natalee Holloway was disposed of and placed in a similar device.

The Aruban Police requested the FBI Laboratory to process the cloth, because the Laboratory already had a sample of the exact match of the type of material of Natalee Holloway’s blouse.  The FBI Laboratory received that material on the 22nd of January 2008.

On the 25th of February 2008, the Prosecutors’ Office received the official report from the FBI Laboratory that showed that the two materials were not a match.

The FBI didn't recieve the sample until the 22nd of Jan.Robin & Reality post the next day the results of the sampling?How can that be?

THE DOLF RICHARDSON - PERSISTENCE CONNECTION

Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman:   Richardson was very quick to dismiss the trap as case-relevant. Richardson was insisting that we keep looking FAR out to sea in very deep water.

-he was the one briefing the ALE divers on how to handle the site
-he was the one who handled all the evidence that came out of the water
-he was the one who admits to personally sending the fabric sample to the FBI for testing (although it got to the FBI two weeks after he said he sent it).

Kyle Kingman:  On the morning of the 30th we met on board the Persistence with Hans Mos, Richardson, and the rest of the police brass and dive division. I showed them all the 29th dive video and they agreed that it was very suspicion and looked promising. Later that day 30-Dec we conducted the dive with the Aruban divers along with our own Tim Trahan. We discussed ahead of time 1 thumb up means positively human remains, 2 thumbs up... something conclusively identifying Natalee. When Tim T. gives one thumb down, he said that it was inconclusive.

Kyle Kingman: Mr. Red shirt came on the Persistence along with Dolf, Mos, et al for the meeting on the 30th."

Kyle Kingman: It was confirmed by the FBI that they received a fabric sample send by Richardson and that it wasn't a match to Natalee's blouse. I think the video can prove or disprove whatever the FBI was sent was the same object or not. I strongly believe it's blue denim.

Kyle Kingman: The blue tarp and blue fabric was confirmed by Richardson and Mos. Remember, they each only confirmed one piece. One confirmed blue fabric, the other confirmed tarp. From the video you see both

Kyle Kingman:   The FBI said they needed an invitation. I brought it up to Mos and Richardson and they were talking as if it were a possibility along with a Dutch forensic team. Mos said it would take about 10-14 days to have a Dutch forensic team on site. Never heard another word about it.

Kyle Kingman:  I hadn't slept in 48 hours. I crashed for a few hours rest and by the time I got up Dateline and Tim Miller had left the boat. That is when John [Silvetti] assumed full control over the remainder of the project and had us searching in the deepest portions of our search area which coincided with Richardson's remarks. Richardson told us after the Jan-7th dive to keep searching in deep water.

Kyle Kingman: Jan 12-13 I saw the Dutch Coast Guard on site for 45 minutes on both days.  I told John about the Coast Guard on site and he didn't want to hear it. However, he must have thought about it and after chewing on it agreed because he spoke to Mos and Richardson about it later. I believe it was Richardson came back to him and said nothing other than they don't have dive capabilities.

Kyle Kingman:  Remember after the Jan-7th dive which sampled the trap Richardson told John emphatically to "keep searching she's still out there in the deep ocean".

Kyle Kingman:  Remember it was Richardson who said to us that he personally handled the evidence and sent it immediately to our FBI)

Kermit - scaredmonkeys.net


ldstlou
Re: The Cage « Reply #157 on: March 19, 2009, 12:25:09 pm »

The last posts are taken from the e-mail that Kyle sent to Jug and I in December …

Kyle Kingman: I had questions which were very unsettling about what I had observed during the search including the events surrounding the trap inspection by the Aruban divers and how the samples were handled by ALE - solely Richardson. This made me very uneasy. It was unsettling and I had no one to talk about it with. The Freebird forum was a place where I could safely discuss the unsettling aspects of the search and see if there were any connections. I only did so after the group agreed that nothing would leave the forum. I never wished for any of it to leave the forum.

http://goldmonkey.org/index.php?topic=980.msg12191#msg12191

The following words of Kyle Kingman convince me that the contents of the cage/trap were test prior to Richardson sending the samplings to the FBI on January 22, 2008.

Janet

+++++

Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman: "10 days before the announcement of the DeVries tapes I met Mos downtown in public"

During this time, I was eagerly waiting for results from the Jan-7th trap samples. I expected him to know something by then. When we met, he asked me how I was doing and he said that he was suprised that I was still in Aruba. After some small talk back and forth, he asked when I was leaving. I flipped the question around on him, asking, "Hans, you tell me. When am I going home?" With that, he hesitated. It was clear to me that he knew something big that we didn't. I picked up on this and looked right into his eyes and asked him "Hans, between you and I, when will my family see me again?" He looked around for anyone watching or listening, leaned forward and said into my ear: "ten days". He then turned and walked away without saying another word.

I had no idea what 10 days meant at the time, but it meant something big was going to happen. I had assumed it related to the trap and it's contents, but couldn't prove anything. Well, 10 days later the announcement was made about the existence of the land rover tapes. I was really confused and didn't know what to feel. I honestly was a little dissapointed that the 10 days was about the confession tapes.

Kermit - scaredmonkeys.net

John Silvetti, Kyle Kingman and Tim Trahan

I lost hope a long time ago that there would ever be justice for Natalee Holloway coming out of Aruba but ... all of you are Americans.  How could you betray Natalee Holloway ... one of your own?  Considering you are parents ... how can you be so heartless in regards to the ongoing  emotional suffering of Natalee's parents.  Just put yourselves in their place?

Janet

++++++

'The Abrams Report' - July. 6, 2005

BETH HOLLOWAY TWITTY, NATALEE HOLLOWAY'S MOTHER:  We cannot forget to demand and expect to have Natalee.  Natalee deserves to return to her country.  She deserves it, and everyone knows it, Martin, every single person.  Every single person knows that.  They know it.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8485029/

Considering I am a believer in Kyle Kingman's own words regarding the dynamics encompassing the Peristence betrayal ... I contend that there may be be evidence that Natalee Holloway's remains were recovered from the trap/cage on January 7, 2008.

In my opinion ... only the intentional diverting of attention from  Kyle Kingman's own words will imply there is no evidence to prove that Natalee Holloway is dead.

Considering the words of the ROV analyst on board the Persistence ... if a judge in a civil lawsuit (Beth Holloway) or a judge in criminal lawsuit (FBI) ruled in an American court that the "entire" ROV footage was to be turned over to the court appointed ROV analysts ... the outcome may reveal that Natalee Holloway is indeed dead.

Janet

+++++++


Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman:  Dateline (Tim Uelinger) had an agreement with Tim Miller to 'do a story to tell about and help promote TES and give TM recognition, and perhaps a 10 minute side-line story on Natalee along with 11 other missing persons. Dateline tagged along with TM for a while pre-NH search. They (TM and Dateline) came on the Persistence between 15-Dec and 30-Dec. I found the trap on 1:45am Christmas morning. I got the OK to begin our ROV dive series for the 29th, so I made it our first dive. We got visual of the fish trap and that it was suspicious. Basically, the fish trap door was open and there appeared to be a skull and torso-shape in sand on the door inside the trap Reviewing the 29-Dec video I noticed the torso shape in sand had a 90 degree angle and that the sand was supported from falling through the bottom of the trap, which was slightly excavated by currents. I proportioned out the distance from the top of the head, to shoulder, to that 90 degree angle and it was a match to Natalee's photo of her standing -head, to shoulder, to the end of her denim skirt. I showed TM the proportional match and the possibility of a skirt under the sand and he said he's going to tell the parents. I said definitely not until we sample the trap and get results. He made the call to Dave and Beth independently.

Kyle Kingman:  I took the proportions of the body form from the head, to shoulder, to a 90 degree angle which I believed to be the hem line of Natalee's skirt. I then took those proportions and matched them to the photo of Natalee with what she was last seen wearing. The proportions matched within an inch from head, to shoulder, to skirt line. Based on this comparison and with what we believed we saw in the Dec 29th video, Tim Miller contacted the family and told them the 99.9% comment. I told Tim not to do anything until we have forensic results back after the site is processed. Jan 7thwe sampled the contents and in my opinion we found the skirt under the sand along with the other items The blue fabric was found right where the skirt is pictured. If it isn't her, it will forever haunt me as a major cosmic WTF

Kyle Kingman:  Well, it's all going to happen. The big card will soon be played.  I just had a secret meeting with Tim Trahan and by proxy, Louis Shafer.  Tomorrow, Tim Trahan will get in touch with Beth Holloway in regards to the trap footage and missing evidence. We're getting geared up to play the conspiracy cover-up card on Aruba and force the bogus investigation out into the open. We believe the trap footage may be the missing piece which will raise a BIG question in the minds of the public everywhere.  We're in the process of figuring out how to produce and spin the story most accurately and most effectively. Also, and completely independant and unrelated, John will be in Aruba tomorrow and will report soon. This is a different issue. He knows nothing of what we're about to do with the footage.

Kermit - scaredmonkeys.net

Kermit ... that is my understanding too.  IF there were DNA evidence to prove that Natalee Holloway's remains had been recovered by the Aruban divers ... this would be huge but ... why the silence from Beth Holloway in the past almost two years.

However ... considering I do not believe for a minute that Beth would withhold this DNA info from her ex-husband ... from Natalee's father ... there would be the hard questions?

1.  Why would Dave Holloway involved in the witness/pond search?

2.  Why would Dave Holloway in 2008 be assisting John Silvetti in raising "Tourism Association" funds to continue the search in Aruban waters for his daughter's remains?

3.  Why would Dave Holloway ... according to his friend Debbie (BFN) in June, 2009 ...  be attempting to raise runds for the continuation of the search?

Personally ... when the actions of Dave Holloway are considered ... I find it hard to believe that there was any DNA evidence recovered from the trap/cage and hand over to Beth Holloway ... DNA evidence with a connection to Natalee Holloway ... DNA evidence that was revealed to either of Natalee's parents..

Put a mark on the calender Monkeys.  I am being an advocate for Dave Holloway in regards to this issue.

IMO

Janet

IS THERE NATALEE HOLLOWAY CASE RELATED DNA IN THE POSSESSION OF THE FBI?

This is huge!

Janet

++++++++

IF the FBI is in possession of DNA evidence related to the cage/trap ... Natalee Holloway's DNA ...  what are the implication in regards to the activity encompassing another search in Aruban waters?

Somethng does not make sense.

Janet

++++++

1.  February, 2008 - Kyle Kingman is solicitating funds toward the continuation of the search and ... those funds are designated to TES.

2.  April, 2008 - John Silvetti reveals that Dave Holloway put him touch with the head of the tourist Association in regards to a "sizable" donation to assist in the costs associated with continuing the search.

3.  July, 2008 - Steve Holloway ... Dave's brother ... reveals in his comment on SM Front Page that Dave intends to continue the search.

4.  March, 2009 - Tim Miller claims in a NBC.13 interview that there were still 270 targets to search.

5.  June, 2009 - Tim Miller reveals to Dana Pretzer that it is his intention to return to Aruba in regards to the targets that had yet been investigated.

6.  June, 2009 - Debbie (BFN) claims that Dave is working with Tim Miller, John Silvetti and Louis Schaefer in the raising of funds to continue the search in Aruban waters.

______


Dr. Phil Attorneys Use Scared Monkeys Natalee Holloway Posts as Exhibit in Court Docs Against Deepak & Satish Kalpoes

Comments:

61.  Steve Holloway on July 14th, 2008 9:07 am

I want every body to know that Dave still wants the water search to continue. Their are over 170 targets that have to be looked at.

The fund raiser needs to start soon. An idea I talked with him about is maybe a ebay auction. A large picture of Natalee would go to the highest bidder with all funds going toward this boat search. There could be different auctions spaced out with different picture’s. I just talked with him about this idea, so its not a done deal.

God Bless

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2008/07/12/dr-phil-attorneys-use-scared-monkeys-natalee-holloway-posts-as-exhibit-in-court-docs-against-deepak-satish-kalpoes/

All links/quotes related to the above timeline provided upon request.  No problem.

Janet

Hi Snoppy.  How is your "real" Snoopy?

This afternoon ... I have been discussing this topic with an email friend and ... he is kinda confused.

Kyle Kingman states in his own words that the tarp was outside the trap/cage.  Could it be that this may be what Beth was referring to when she implies that FBI is in possession of evidence recovered from "in the area" of the trap/cage?

Nevertheless ... that does not explain DNA.  It is highly unlikely that Dolphi Richardson or Hans Mos would send the FBI any samples containing DNA evidence related to Natalee Holloway.

According to Robin Holloway ... the recovered samples were tested prior to being sent to the FBI.  She knew of the negative results per the Arubans at the getgo.

Maybe Kermit could clarify.

Janet

+++++++

oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #739 3/3 -
« Reply #79 on: March 03, 2008, 05:47:47 PM »

Video 3: Jan 7th - ROV monitoring diver tactile inspection of the trap with sampling of items inside and outside of trap. The trap was not recovered. Recovered samples sent for forensic analysis. Neither Tim Miller nor the media were on board.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=5922.msg971335;topicseen#msg971335

 
Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman: The blue tarp piece was found approx 6-10 ft away from the trap opening.

Kyle Kingman: The blue tarp and blue fabric was confirmed by Richardson and Mos. Remember, they each only confirmed one piece. One confirmed blue fabric, the other confirmed tarp. From the video you see both.

Kyle Kingman:  Remember it was Richardson who said to us that he personally handled the evidence and sent it immediately to our FBI.