Scared Monkeys Discussion Forum

Present.

Here! ::MonkeyDance::

Magnolia!   ::MonkeyLaugh::

That was a good one!   ::MonkeyDance:: ::cartwheel:: ::MonkeyDance:: ::cartwheel::

 ::MonkeyLaugh::

Here and still laughing at the snorkelling water dog.

I wonder if Dave Holloway has heard the tapes that TJ Ward gave to Greta about the Colombians.

Is this the same pond that Kyle said they scanned and found tires, garbage etc but nothing of any interest?  And from looking at the pictures I cannot imagine it being 15 feet in any place as the pictures show it dried up and it looks no more than 2-3 feet at the most.

He is actually a Snorkel Spaniel. ::MonkeyHaHa::

That was a good one!   ::MonkeyHaHa::

At least this one can't give a thumb's down sign.  He has no thumbs.

 ::MonkeyHaHa::

Exactly!

Ya know maybe Mos has made it clear this is the last chance for searching before he closes this case and If I was Dave I would want to give it another try even if the chances were remote of finding anything.  Mos will close this case and move on back to the NL and Aruba sure doesn't want to have this case unloaded on them when he leaves.  So I hope something is found to find closure but I am not holding my breath on this.

 ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyLaugh:: ::MonkeyDance::

You are left me again.

 ::MonkeyWaa::

Janet

I suspect that Aruba will never close the Natalee Holloway case.  Those case file that Dutch Law states can be turned over to the FBI upon request would expose this investigation for what it was ... corrupt ... a coverup.

Once Natalee Holloway's remains are returned to her family ... the case will remain open but allowed to go cold.

IMO

Janet

++++++

Growing Frustration in Aruba
Wednesday, July 06, 2005

GEORGE "JUG" TWITTY: Well, the way the system works down here, when the case is closed, we will have all that information, and we can release it to the world.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,161705,00.html


Art Wood
DANA PRETZER
July 2, 2006 - Part 1
July 8, 2006 - Part 2

The family of Natalee needs to put pressure on the US attorney in Birmingham to push the FBI to conduct an investigation after ALE close the case. We have a treaty that allows the FBI to pursue a violation of civil rights of an American citizen there.


'Rita Cosby Live & Direct' for December 1
updated 7:37 a.m. PT, Fri., Dec. 2, 2005

ART WOOD, FORMER SECRET SERVICE AGENT: Absolutely. Absolutely. There's a lot that Americans can do through the State Department. I want to remind everybody that Natalee Holloway was a U.S. citizen. Once the Aruban authorities are done investigating this case, the FBI can still conduct an investigation, and they could extradite these suspects to the United States. Let me point out that there's a ton of circumstantial evidence in this case to convict these kids.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10295536/

  ::MonkeyLaugh::

Did you see I made it here first. First time on SM's that I have ever done that.   ::cartwheel::

I hope that is the reason, BlueMoon.  I hope Dave is not doing this just because of the harassment of gloryhounds and attention seekers just insisting they have some sort of inside information that they don't.

Kyle on the side sonar results of the pond:

Kyle wrote April 7 2008:
There are 18 targets. Two are definitely tires. The rest, who knows. It's likely tin cans, mud clumps, and debris. There is one small box-like target but it's only 2ft across and doesn't have much relief, unless it's completely sunk into the mud (likely). I can find something about the size of a hockey puck with that system in good conditions. The water was very shallow when this survey was done. Remember, in February 2006 the pond was almost dry.


In the meantime, the Americans, with police permission, made a sonar
test of the Dam of Monserat in the beginning of this year, when the
level of the water was low.  DIARIO has found out that this test
discovered 15 objects of interest and that they could define only 3 of
them
http://scaredmonkeys.com/2008/09/12/search-for-natalee-hollowaytim-miller-of-texas-equusearch-new-witness-in-aruba-discusions-with-proecutor-hans-mos-polygraph-exams/

Local news said that they are combing a small reservoir in North West Aruba.

I don't think so, Mos is out.  JMO, but I don't think the case will be closed before he leaves.  There are too many (including Hero Brinkman) questioning the investigation...I feel sure this subject came up in the recent meetings in Holland.  It will look very bad for Aruba if they allow Mos to just close the case and fly off to his new job. 

Rhino "Lighttanks" Golba  ::MonkeyRoll::

 ::MonkeyLaugh:: ::MonkeyLaugh:: ::MonkeyLaugh::

 ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyDance::

That did it!  Now I won't be able to think seriously the rest of the night, Wreck.  Doesn't take much sometimes!

Well I guess I should have said he would close it but it can be opened back up with new evidence and then just never do anything more on the case that way the files cannot be touched or examined.

 ::MonkeyLaugh::   ::MonkeyLaugh::   ::MonkeyLaugh::

Much, much too funny, Wreck!!

Janet,
Now dry those tears...we always change threads on Page 50 and move to a clean cage, you know that you silly girl! 

(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b258/texasmom55/Greetings/13309501563p6560.gif)

 ::MonkeyHaHa::

Maybe Blue Moon

Well at least that's better than combing the entire island.   ::MonkeyWink::  Seriously, I would love nothing more than for Fred Golba to be successful in this search. 

 ::MonkeyHaHa::

Sniff  Sniff

I am OK now.

Janet

Klaas ... is that the Monserrat pond?

Janet

As would we all, Klaas.  I guess too many past disappointments have made us a bit jaded in our expectations.

I will do my best to remember to offer to take your hand, and bring you with me to the next thread change. 

 :smt052

When I hear about "combing" the island, it reminds me of "Spaceballs", when they were combing the desert, using a big hair comb and a hair pick.  If only combing the island  would help us find Natalee and bring her home....My personal belief is if she is found, it's because she has been taken and kept until convenient and placed back to be found.  JMHO

Yes, the photos posted are of Monserrat pond, the area of Caps witness, the same area already searched.

I want to keep her.  She makes me laugh.

(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b258/texasmom55/Greetings/13309501563p6560.gif)

Oh I agree Muffy.  Makes me wonder when Aruba will learn and say enough is enough and do just that.  You know they have played the waiting game for 4 years thinking just any day now this will fade into the sunset never to be heard of again. Wrong.

I agree MuffyBee!    ::MonkeyNoNo::

Klaas ... consider that pond was dry in May, 2008 ... how in the world could anything Natalee Holloway case related be there.

It just does not make sense.

Janet

Me too Janet, of course you can keep her!  I thought of you immediately when I saw her!  Couldn't wait for the opportunity to introduce you!   ::MonkeyWink:: ::MonkeyHaHa::

Klaas ... do you have a link?

Thanks

Janet

Buried in the mud?  I don't know Janet.

Didn't you mean to say - does not compute!!   ::MonkeyHaHa::

Janet - Starting with these Glenda posted today:

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4717.msg731826#msg731826


And the old pics from before.  This is the same area:

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub6_022109/dam_national_2.jpg)

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub6_022109/dam_national_1.jpg)

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub6_022109/dam_national.jpg)

And no where would it be fifteen feet deep according to those photos as it is flat as a pancake.

Fred Golba and Amo, Search-and-Rescuers


"I don't want to scare you," Fred Golba says, "but I've always been into the dead." On Sept. 11, Golba turned up in New York in his white Chevy Blazer, with his German shepherd Amo, his bloodhound Gus and what he calls his "resume"--some 80 pages of newspaper clippings and testimonial letters touting his expertise at finding corpses. "I'm the dead guy," he says. "All around the world, I go and find the dead." The photo albums he carries with him show the remains of hurricane victims in Nicaragua and the Dominican Republic, and bodies recovered from a mudslide in India. He does this work at nobody's behest and with nobody's sponsorship, takes no money for it, makes his living at odd jobs, lives sometimes with his aunt and sometimes with his girlfriend in Chicopee, Mass. At 42 he's an all-American misfit: a muscular white guy with a black do-rag, a faded yin-yang tattoo on the back of his right hand, a cross tattooed on his middle finger. His gear includes a cutting torch, a butane lighter (when the flame bends, he can place his dogs downwind) and a hunting knife. "If this buck knife could talk," Golba says, then just shakes his head.

It's hard to tell what it would be like to meet Golba when he's had some sleep; by his account, he worked without even a nap for his first 86 hours on the site. ("I couldn't stop. I felt I needed to keep going to try and find life.") But after the Trade Center disaster that knife couldn't have gotten a word in edgewise; even his own yawns didn't interrupt Golba's compulsive stream of narrative, autobiography, technical instruction--and indelibly horrific images. "I call it Hell One and Hell Two," he says, referring to the sites where the Twin Towers used to stand. "If you've ever looked in the Bible and seen Saint Michael fighting demons, he's got a staff and he's looking down into hell and you see bodies--it was just like that. Jagged glass, girders, the holes go down for stories and you look in and here's all these pieces of people. There was a woman in there, her hair was swinging in the wind, her face was intact but her skull was gone. She was probably a beautiful girl at one time. And then I found a foot nearby with toenail polish on it, but it wasn't hers. And that's what I mean by hell."

Golba, the son of a police officer and a nurse, came of age fearing he'd be sent to Vietnam. "But I never was, and I felt kind of guilty that I never fought for my country, so maybe that's why I do search-and-rescue for free." He spent years partying, fathered two daughters--he's now a grandfather--became a biker, a bear hunter and a part-time fireman. Yet his Roman Catholic upbringing has stuck with him. "I don't forget God," he says. "When you're doing this work, you got to talk to somebody." About eight years ago Golba was working as a security guard, watching car lots at night, and adopted Amo to help him out; he soon discovered that the dog was gentle to a fault but had a world-class nose. He joined a search-and-rescue group, began studying forensics on his own and made a local reputation by finding the skeletal remains of a Massachusetts man who'd been missing for six months; it took him and Amo just a few hours. Golba began offering his help to police departments in missing-persons cases, and eventually to foreign governments after natural disasters. "I contact the embassies," he says, "take my best cases and fax them, and they vouch for me with airlines. Sometimes the airlines pay, sometimes they don't. If they don't, I don't go--I don't have a bank account. I'll not only do search-and-rescue, but I'll stay and train. The Dominicans have eight of my dogs now."

So far, Golba claims, he, Amo and Gus have found 10 complete bodies at the World Trade Center site and a dozen 10-pound bags of body parts. "I bet you that out of 6,000 people, about 5,000 are never going to be found because they're in pieces," he says. But the scene, he says, has been chaotic and sometimes contentious. He claims that someone brought in a female dog in heat, and her scent here and there caused "false hits" by male search dogs, whose handlers thought they were sniffing out bodies. And he maintains that FEMA threatened to yank his credentials because he entered an area--near bank vaults--that he didn't know was restricted.

At one point, Golba found himself in the WTC's parking garage--where many cars were intact except for windows broken by emergency workers searching in vain for people. "I shut my lights off," he recalls, "just to try to comprehend what it would be like for someone in there. Oh, my God. It was pitch black." Most of the time, though, he kept to the intolerably grim tasks he's taken it on himself to perform. "I'm not heartless," he says. "But there's a job to do. I can deal with my emotions later."

http://www.newsweek.com/id/76091/page/8

Good Evening Monkey's....Had to take the time to go to the gym and de-stress after reading some of tha crap!NO..Not all posters,and or forums are for justice for Natalee Holloway..JMOO

Mytime ... it is CapslockWizard/Anonimo who "does not compute."

Tamikosmom:  "Logic does not dictate."

 ::MonkeyHaHa::

Janet

Good Night KTF!     ::MonkeyCool::

ahh!!  Thank you for the clarification Janet!!   ::MonkeyHaHa::

I am off to the musings for a few laughs before I get ready for bed!!  Good Night Monkey friends!!

You OK HotPing! ::MonkeyHaHa:: I'm just getting back on! ::MonkeyTongue::

sorry,  will try again.

Is that considered Northwest Aruba????  I think of North as more towards the light house, this is move north central....I think.  ::MonkeyConfused::

Hi Hotping.

Did you have a good day with your precious grandsons?

 ::cartwheel::

My daughter and two eldest grandson flew to Montreal today for a Karate competition.  They will be gone for a week and I miss them already.

 ::MonkeyWaa::

The three of them will be staying at the home of eldest son's French Canadian inlaws.  The boys will probably come home speaking French just like their 2 1/2 year old cousin.

 ::MonkeyHaHa::

Janet

No I guess I'm not KTF...I misread and thought you said Good Night....... I'll try again....Good Evening KTF!  ::MonkeyWink::

Good Evening HotPing.. ::MonkeyLaugh::

Good Night Monkeys ~ I pray that this is the time that the stars are aligned, and that Aruba
is finally able to let Natalee go to her family.  See you tomorrow.  :)

Hi, AZSunny,

The reporting in this has been very sketchy at best.  Not exactly the most informative one would hope to ever see.  Not sure why but maybe language differences? 

Me, too, Mere and I don't care who or what makes this possible.  Just bring her home and we will deal with the rest later.

Yes Janet I had a very good day with My 4 month old Grandson....My 5 year old grandson will not be home from the lake until tomorrow...They left on Wednesday to go there with His other Grandparents and We have not seen Him yet.....but We will tomorrow...  ::cartwheel::

French That would be Greek to Me!   ::MonkeyHaHa::

Well, if it were not the Montserrat pond, this search would make a bit more sense!   I think.... LOL

Good Night Mytime.

Please don't take Ducky with you.  Ducky and I will be headed home soon.  We will take flight and soar over the magnificent American landscape.

Janet

I've recently read online that some of the big hotels in Aruba are in tight financial straits. In fact, I read one American tourist review of his super luxury resort experience on Aruba and he was pretty angry that they had to be shuffled off to some less classy swimming pool at a less classy hotel because the luxury resort where they were staying had run out of money mid-renovations and the swimming pool was in mid-renovated condition and therefore, closed.

On top of that, you have the global financial crisis and there aren't as many tourist dollars available nowadays because people are severely pulling back on their discretionary spending.

Add to that mix a now sullied reputation for an entire island re: safety for foreigners, especially Americans, and the Aruba tourist industry could be hurting a lot worse than they want outsiders to ever know.

It most definitely would be to Aruba's advantage to have Natalee's remains get "discovered." If Aruban authorities can in any way associate themselves with the efforts to find her, so much the better for all of Aruba. Look for the photo ops.

Aruba surely knows by now the pressure will never let up and now there's going to be a movie and a re-igniting of public outrage against their island. It isn't fair to all the decent people in Aruba but there you have it. Fair or not, Aruba needs to clean up their act long enough to send Natalee home. If they know what's good for them.

That's why I, like some others here, believe Natalee will be "discovered" (hopefully) sooner rather than later.

(http://home.att.net/~i_write_screenplays/0-nataleehome.jpg)

It is all Dutch and Greek to me.

 ::MonkeyHaHa::

Other grandparents!!  Don't you just hate sharing?

 ::MonkeyHaHa::

Janet

Good Night Mere.

Janet

Good Night Mere!  I will join you in the same prayer.   ::MonkeyCool::

And if this is yet more of just jerking this family around, heaven help those responsible and their supporters!

OK!!  Only since you have been so nice to me today!!  Logic dictates I must reciprocate!!   ::MonkeyWink::

Good Night Janet - Sweet Dreams and Be safe!!

XOXO

Sharing is not fun when it comes to Grandchildren but I just have to do it....whether I like it or not.....  ::MonkeyWaa::  ::MonkeyWink::

Its Jacuzzi Time  BBL!  ::MonkeyWink::

GOOD NIGHT ALL!!

(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b258/texasmom55/Greetings/13309501563p6560.gif)

Janet
9:10 PM PT

Calling it a night.  Tomorrow is suppose to be a beautiful spring day so think I will work outside for a change.  Have a good one.

Blue Moon

Me, too, heading for the Monkey Bunkey and prayerful that this latest effort on the part of Dave Holloway will bring her home to him and her mother and also for the repose of Natalee's soul.

Me too!

 ::MonkeyWaa::

The bright side.  The kids must feel the love that surrounds them.

Good Night Hotping.

Janet

Good night Janet, Blue Moon, and Anna!   ::MonkeyCool::

              GOODNIGHT TO ALL THE MONKEY'S HIT THE BUNKEY'S

Many good points oldiebutgoodie!

And I love the picture!   ::MonkeyCool::

 ::MonkeyShocked::

I am always nice.  Just ask bastibro.  I am the sweetest Monkey in the cage.  I am the most compromising Monkey in the cage.

 ::MonkeyTongue::

Good Night Mytime.

Janet
XOXO

(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b258/texasmom55/Greetings/13309501563p6560.gif)

Two questions:
(1) On forum, what does "BUMP" mean?
(2) When posters are banned, why are their old posts no longer available? I like to read some of them, after their agenda has been discovered.

Thanks.

1.  BUMP means to bring a post forward back up to the top for others to see
2.  You should still be able to view all of the banned posters previous posts.  They are available. 

Thanks, Klaas.
What I meant was to pull them up by MEMBER as opposed to re-reading pages. No biggie.
Wondering if there was a way to keep them listed (with asterisk?), or even have a banned section.

Anyone else skeptical of these latest developments...

Track record indicates the following:
(a) If posters (Glenda) post theories/maps, they are normally irrelevant, dead-ended, or disinformation.
(b) When their is a legitimate chance to solve this case, it is immediately blocked by ALE.
(c) Disinformation is normally posted around the internet to block some type of covert ALE action.

Quote from: Tamikosmom on March 21, 2009, 11:18:44 PM
Quote from: mytime on March 21, 2009, 11:03:00 PM
Quote from: Tamikosmom on March 21, 2009, 10:55:20 PM
Quote from: mytime on March 21, 2009, 10:41:40 PM
Quote from: Tamikosmom on March 21, 2009, 10:38:03 PM
Quote from: mytime on March 21, 2009, 10:32:08 PM
Quote from: Tamikosmom on March 21, 2009, 10:28:07 PM
Quote from: klaasend on March 21, 2009, 10:25:53 PM
Quote from: Tamikosmom on March 21, 2009, 10:18:44 PM
Quote from: klaasend on March 21, 2009, 10:13:56 PM
Quote from: Magnolia on March 21, 2009, 10:05:12 PM

Janet
XOXO
I DEMAND a recount.... ::MonkeyCool::
I am OBVIOUSLY NOT the stackin champ!
Klaasend,
Please direct me to the torch passing ceremony...
Please invite Janet... ::MonkeyLaugh:: ::MonkeyLaugh:: ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyDance:: ::cartwheel:: ::cartwheel::

Don't know how to bring posts from previous thread over as I am catching up, but....

But allusions to Golba and Lassie, the wonder dog, doing the doggy-paddle across the pond gave me quite the visual. I guess that would be after Golba sticks his robo-arm, elbow to shoulder, in murky 15foot water. CLW will probably be on the other side of the pond with his witness (equipped with night vision goggle binoculars) and 52 Dutch marines. Then, a little police row boat will paddle by Robo-Golba and Lucky Lassie, dive and retrieve a shoe, then take off in their YellowHammerHummer.

 ::MonkeyLaugh:: ::MonkeyHaHa::

Lifesong posted in last thread:
I so hope that Aruba is about to give Natalee back.  Unfortunately, I don't think they are smart enough to do it.

They need to give her back, and then Close the Case.

Then the family/JQK can get the case file... and we'll get Joran brought to Justice without ALE...there's more than one way to skin a cat.

Give her back and Close the Case, Aruba...before Mos leaves.  Hmmm...maybe.

I agree aruba needs to give Natalee back to her family.
Maybe this fred search will accomplish that...I don't know...
IF it does, I don't believe there will be any thing returned that will provide forensic evidence of a crime by any of the perps...
First things first though...Natalee returned to her parents/family.
Second will be the effort to PROVE what happened to Natalee on May 30th, 2005.
We'll be here aruba.....be afraid.....I believe Karma will be on the perps judgment day....
To me though, that will be just frosting on the cake....
I still want the perps hunted down in THIS lifetime..... ::MonkeyCool::
mhoo

Buckshot - there is only one poster with astericks instead of a name and they used to be a moderator.  All of the posts are there, in order the only difference is instead of seeing the name you see ******.  Other than the astericks everything else should be the same.  If you know the members name the posts of that member will pull up. 

(http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn82/texasmom_55/Smileys/tribe.gif)

 ::MonkeyHaHa::

just kiddin' billb, Janet learned from the master.....YOU!   ::MonkeyWink::

  ::MonkeyHaHa::

Tamikosmom,
Your theory of a pre-arranged body discovery is certainly a distinct possibility, in my opinion.
However, part of me says they have had this chance many times in the past and let us down.
BUCKSHOT.

Aruba's Newspaper should read -
New search coming soon, featuring:
Rhino (aka Lassie) the Snorkeling Spaniel...
Golba (aka InspectorGadget) with his 15 foot magical, body sensing Robo-Arm...

Good morning  hotping, texasmom, ncbelle54, billb, BUCKSHOT, batfish22, Poochy and 7 Guests.  I guess we are waiting to see if there are any new developments...

 ::MonkeyLaugh::

Yes Hotping...Grasshopper Janet has learned well..she grabbed the pebble from my palm.....
Crown Janet the new Master... ::MonkeyCool::
 ::MonkeyLaugh:: ::MonkeyLaugh:: ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyDance:: ::cartwheel:: ::cartwheel::

Good morning MuffyBee!   ::MonkeyCool::

Good Morning MuffyBee....  ::MonkeyCool:: New Develpoments would be Great if Natalee could come home.... but I'm  just not sure what to think about what's going on in Aruba!  ::MonkeyNoNo::

 ::MonkeyCool::

Hi MuffyBee...
Just waiting for the dog paddling act to finish... ::MonkeyCool::
And the LONG reach of the dog paddling handler...
Go freddie...
 ::MonkeyLaugh::

billb I bet You could win the title back lickety split!  ::MonkeyWink::

  ::MonkeyLaugh::

If only it were that easy billb!   ::MonkeyTongue:: ::MonkeyHaHa:: 

You're a stackaholic LEGEND, you can't live it down that easily!   ::MonkeyWink::

We won't know Hotping until someone takes it away!
First thing first.....
my vote is for Grasshopper.....
Help a brother/sister ::MonkeyCool:: out......

I agree. billb is not giving up his crown so easily and without a fight.

Long live the undisputed STACKAHOLIC...billb.

 ::MonkeyWink:: ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyLaugh:: ::MonkeyDance::

Sure billb....Let's Go!  ::MonkeyDance::

Does the pond everyone is talking about have quicksand?

Hello batfish.....I saw the other night when You made Your first post and I wanted to wait until You logged in again to say

Welcome Batfish  ::MonkeyDance::

Good Night hotping, MuffyBee, BUCKSHOT, texasmom, batfish22, klaasend and 10 Guests are viewing this topic.
Klaasend...Please let me know when the Crowning ceremony will begin.....
I will once again (reluctantly) accept my Crown...
I WILL PROCLAIM that all MY subjects are AGAIN in ATTENDANCE...
And I INSIST Grasshopper Janet sit on my court...
This is MONTHLY redo - right? A stackaholic re-vote is every month!
I'd also like to propose that if there is a stackaholic voted in six months in a row...they receive a special gift (Cash/Car/Parent Plus Student loan repayment - Two week vacation - NOT to aruba...after all..this isn't wheel of fortune)
Do I have that right?  ::MonkeyCool::

Good Night billb!


 ::MonkeyHaHa::

Good Night All!



                                   

Good night billb  (http://bestsmileys.com/sleeping/11.gif)

Good Night billb and Hotping!   ::MonkeyCool::

Good night hotping  (http://bestsmileys.com/sleeping/2.gif)

"Snorkerel Spaniel"  ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyLaugh:: ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyHaHa::

I see Carpe posting on the front page! Please visit us here on the forum -- you are missed!  ::MonkeyCool::

I pray that the current search will bring answers for Dave Holloway, Natalee's dad.  No matter how it turns out, he will know that he tried once again to find her.  I would hope that if I were Natalee, that my dad would do the same.  I know if she were my child, I would probably have had to eliminate this possibility for my peace of mind too.  If he has been mislead into this search, those responsible will face judgement for their deeds one day. 

God bless Dave and his family, Beth, Matt, and all other members of Natalee's family; and all of those who love her and will never give up hope that she and the answers can be found in her disappearance.

I really, really, really, miss Carpe.   ::MonkeyWaa::

Please drop in and say Hi, Carpe!   ::MonkeyCool::

Good question, IBE.  I don't know the answer.  I do remember, early on, discussions of certain areas having mud like "quicksand".   :smt102

MORNING MONKEYS!!!!!!

Prayers for Natalees return, and for some peace for her family.

Amen, FOM.  Good to see you.

They don't call it quicksand but I'd say sort of yes.

 ::MonkeyShocked::

I am honored.

I want to afford special thanks to Mytime, Klaasend and Magnolia.  Without their contribution billb would still reign.

When is the coronation?

 ::cartwheel::

Janet

 

GOOD MORNING MONKEYS!!

Janet
7:15 PM PT

I cannot comprehend why a search of the pond is taking place now.  If there was anything Natalee Holloway case related ... logic dictates it would have been discovered in May, 2008 when the pond was dried.

Why not wait until May, 2009 when the pond is once again dried if searching below ground level is where it is at?

Janet

+++++

Good Morning, Monkeys!

Let's all be sure to remember Natalee and her family in our prayers today and pray that this will be the day they find the peace they have sought for almost five long years now!

http://estiinthailand.blogspot.com/2009/03/sex-drugs-and-acoustic-guitar.html

skip to main | skip to sidebar
Esti's Blog
My Travels Through Thailand

Monday, 9 March 2009
Sex, Drugs, and Acoustic Guitar
The past couple of weeks have been mildly debaucherous... For freshness of mind reasons I'm going to report them in reverse or random order, beginning with last night- a sample of which is depicted for your viewing pleasure to the left.

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_sLbSfjAjrko/SbTxCCmyG8I/AAAAAAAAAD0/g5maIrnTUt0/s320/IMG_0874.JPG)


As some sort of effort to integrate the various nationalities at Rangsit University's International College, the school took us on a three day trip to the beach about 3 hours Southwest of Bangkok. They rented out a nice resort and bussed all 200 of us down there, leaving us to our own devices. I unfortunately had to go to the hospital on the morning of the departure to deal with this lung ailment I've been suffering from for the past month, but I made it to Ban Phe by about 7:30, by which time every single other person was like 6 whiskey neats deep.


The party had taken the form of a free style international rap battle, (which somehow these Bhutanese guys were dominating) spread out along these gazebos on the beach and enhanced by the attendance of many of our professors. Things escalated seemingly quickly from there, and soon enough there were people in various stages of nakedness running into the ocean and tackling each other. After we were all coerced out of that potentially hazardous situation, we opted for chicken fighting in the hotel pool which only ended up being equally if not more hazardous.


The next day, those of us who made it up while the sun was still out, rented tubes and just bobbed in the ocean for hours. While this was really relaxing and fun, it also kind of simulating the effects of a washing machine which isn't optimal for the morning after. That night was more of the same, only this time there were 8-year-old fire dancers and spin-the-bottle involved. It was a really great bonding experience for the group, some of whom bonded a lot more than others- and to my knowledge only 5 people threw up and only 1 item of hotel property was destroyed. Being that I had nothing to do with any of the above, I call the entire trip a success and only wish it had lasted longer (and had better food).


This brings me to things I wish had lasted less time- namely, my friend Q's twenty first birthday which was last week. In the morning, I went to the floating markets which were really boring and annoying and sweaty. As soon as I got in the door, I had to quickly get ready and make myself presentable to meet up with Q, our friends Kirk and Joran (Van Der Sloot-- Google him), and Q's mom, who was visiting and was us out to dinner for his birthday. We went to a restaurant in the State Tower which is famous for it's Sky Bar on the 56th floor that overlooks all of Bangkok. We ate on the 54th floor and had a table right on the edge of the roof- it was totally incredible. I tried taking pictures, but none of them came out well. This was probably the classiest and nicest restaurant I've ever been to in my life. If you question its classiness hear this: They gave me an upholstered stool to put my purse on next to my chair. I mean come on.



When we were finished dinner we went back to Q's mom's hotel for more drinks (on her) and then went to this club called Bed. Aptly, instead of tables in this club, there are only beds, the entire place is filled with beds. I think it's an international gimmick and I'm pretty sure they have one in New York. I'm not sure how they compare, but this one was really nice. Apparently I have been hanging out with all of the wrong people up until now (no offense guys) because the guys I was with payed for EVERYTHING the whole night. Just to get into the club was about $40 a person, and drinks were also extremely overpriced. I just stood around and if my hand was ever empty I only had to wait about 20 seconds for someone to put a drink in it. This graciousness extended to cab fare and munchy snacks (which became increasingly important later in the night) and I managed to go the whole night without dropping a single Baht. 

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_sLbSfjAjrko/SbT9PlTO-qI/AAAAAAAAAEE/hoMLZve1GL8/s320/IMG_0821.JPG)


 around 4 we went back to Kirk and Joran's house which is about a 6 minute walk from where Q and I live (our apartments are next to each other's). I can't really get into details here, but let's just say we put all those f**ers who take 21 shots on their 21st birthdays to total f**ing shame. I got home at 11:30 that morning, and given the state I was in, I am considering skipping my own 21st birthday entirely. And I shall say no more.




I don't have much planned for the next couple of days... Ben and Ga are arriving in 6 days (but who's counting) and we'll be going to Koh Samet and then meeting up in Vietnam. I'm also skipping the rest of school until April to travel, as I think it's in my best learning interest to experience things outside the classroom. And because I can.


Lots of love and Chag Purim Sameach to everyone (especially you Jordan)
Fondlingly,
Esti
Posted by Esti's Blog at 03:31

Isn't the island basically volcanic rock?  I don't believe there would be the underground streams required for quicksand but I could be wrong.  At least not in the traditional sense of quicksand.  That pond bottom looks very solid and I would think it would be to have grass growing out of it and since it is dry at least seasonally.

Morning guys!  I tried to find any updates on the search but haven't found anything in yesterday or today's "news".  I agree Dave and the entire family need lots of prayers right now.  I will add our wonder dog and Golba to the list as well.

Need to get some things done this a.m. - family gathering at 2.  I know you'll report any news.  Appreciate it! 

Red relayed to me what it was like trying to search at the Bird Sanctuary.  Red said that it was so muddy/silty that your foot would just get sucked in and when you pull your foot out your shoe could come off.  It's not actual quicksand just a rather thick muddy bottom of the pond.  Imagine wet clay maybe?

Joran's friends are not a wholesome looking lot, Imustsay.  Rather efete or something.  Maybe some sort of arrested developement from all the alcohol and drugs?

Unfortunately, from the Netherlands also no news about the search.

Muisje

Good morning Monkeys!   ::MonkeyCool::

Klaas do you know the name of the area fierljepper illustrated in blue?

...sorry, Good Morning all Monkeys, and Texas Mom.

TOUGH GUYS!!!!!!.............DISGUSTING ::MonkeyNoNo::

Klaas, as I understand it, they are searching pond #2 from this map, correct?

Thanks, Klaas.  I guess I think if the tire is just lying there unconcealed, then remains would also do that.  I think the bottom is very solid in that particular pond but suppose shoes could stick.  Am hoping more than a shoe is found because just the shoe only says Joran lost a shoe.

Also on the map, it does make more sense.  I wonder how Joran supposedly would get Natalee's remains to either pond.  He couldn't carry her that far, I wouldn't think.  So I wonder how he would get her there according to this pond theory.

Thanks Muisje.   ::MonkeyCool::

Not off the top of my head but I believe it's the area the gardner witness saw JK2

AZSunny - it sounds like Fred Golba is there to search pond #2 the same pond that has been searched before.

3/21/2009 Solo di Pueblo (Body-1) Page 5

http://solodipueblo.com/index.php?option=com_docman&task=cat_view&gid=27&Itemid=2

(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b258/texasmom55/HollowayCaseNews1/03212009SoloDiPuebloPg5.jpg)

Papiamentu translation:

not owing to achieve nothing of holloway

sta. cruz -- yesterday owing to arrive aruba one speurhondengeleider cu his cacho. el’a achieve the peticion of dave holloway for busca the restonan deadly of his child muher cu owing to desaparece, natalee holloway. the person here will bay busca in one dam cu owing to happen over cual already anteriormente one witness owing to señala this. ministerio publico not have motibo for acepta y this already owing to being tell anteriormente, cu the curpa of natalee holloway is in the dam menciona here. according dave holloway the not have sosiego first cu can convence cu not can achieve the curpa. pesey mp owing to let the speurder follow busca numa. the sir here have acuerdo cu mp y cu police on the accion of buskeda. police will follow the accion here of close.

If Paulus was the actual rapist and/or killer and had used his son in the past to "pimp" for him in the procuring of girls and it was Paulus who had beamed in on Natalee as his next target (re: the known videos), then of course Joran would help out poor old Dad when one of Dad's date rape drug victims actually died or had to be murdered.

Perhaps Dad had the vehicle that carried Natalee's body somewhere and Joran helped in the hiding/disposing of it but for some reason, father and son had to go their separate ways after that. So Joran, now unemcumbered by carrying a body around, makes his way back home and that would explain how he could walk such a distance. There was nothing weighing him down, perhaps.

It would also partially explain the initial cover-up which Paulus helped set in motion with his cronies. At a certain point, the cover-up had to continue or else it would have been too embarrassing to Aruban officials.

I don't believe a whole country, even one as tiny as Aruba, would put its national honor and its one main industry at risk for the sake of a young man's sexual escapades. Something much greater was threatened with exposure and it had to be covered up at all costs. Exposing Paulus would have exposed that which must never be exposed.

I keep coming back to the screenshots from the videos. Joran at the same gambling table as Natalee with her MB friends and Joran is ignoring Natalee - he doesn't even know she exists at that point and they are scant feet from each other. And the shot of Paulus trying to put the make on Natalee and her body posture indicates she's slightly leaning away from him or at any rate, she's thinking, "Who the heck is this old geezer and why is he trying to pick up on me?"

If Joran was the bridge or connection between Natalee and Paulus as in, here's this nice good-looking guy who's been chummy with all us MB girls so it's harmless to take a ride back to the motel with him... does anyone know positively whether or not Natalee and/or the MB girls were aware that Paulus was Joran's Daddy? I sure wouldn't get in a car with the son of the old geezer who'd been making eyes at me. Know what I mean?

Whether Natalee died by accidental overdose or was deliberately murdered, that could be achieved by one individual. However, the absolute complete disappearance of a human being from a small island where there aren't that many places to stash a body means there had to be more than one person involved in the disposal of the body.

You have to start connecting the logic dots. What group (duo or more) of people already existed at the time of Natalee's disappearance that would also have been utterly loyal to each other when it came to covering up murder?

And another thought: If it is true that once Natalee's case is officially closed by Aruban officials, all the documentation becomes public and available to the FBI et al, could one of the reasons this case has dragged on and on for years now be because there are interested parties who want to delay the public release of all the documentation?

Would sending Natalee home now mean the criminal case could offically stay "open" forever so as to bar the release of the real truth and would Natalee being home at last be enough to stifle any protest over continuing the cover-up?

I have checked all major news sources I can think of and no updates that I could find.  Hopefully we will get reports throughout the day.  Maybe they are getting a late start in searching today or something like that.

Also, I think there is a difference in speculation and logic.  Must have at least some basis in fact for logic to dictate.

Off to work and lurk. . . . have company coming but will be checking in when I can to see if anything has developed in this new search effort.

Thanks Klaas.

re fierljeppers illustration/scenario, pond 1 would be closest. 

I agree. That's why, "What group (duo or more) of people already existed at the time of Natalee's disappearance that would also have been utterly loyal to each other when it came to covering up murder?" has absolutely nothing to do with speculation and everything to do with logic. It's a simple question asking for one piece of data. No speculation involved.

By the by, I just came from a wackadoodle website that believes aliens might have abducted Natalee and killed her during their alien experiments and how does this website come by this extraordinary information? Because Natalee told them from beyond the grave (wherever her grave might be).

The entire webpage is peppered with and interrupted with Natalee "speaking" from beyond and this website person is merely writing it down as it comes in.

The page uses photos taken by one who has a history of stalking SMer's and digging up their personal information but since the stalking of SMer's is considered "old news" and the stalkers who do it are a protected class here at SM and discussion of the topic is a bannable offense, I will say no more on that specific topic here.

The one thing mentioned on this page as a "quote from Natalee" that actually makes a kind of sense is Natalee supposedly complaining from beyond the grave that she was dropped down a well and it's cold down there and won't someone please come and get her.

Even in the area of a dead pond, or anywhere for that matter, there could be hidden sinkholes or old wells or old construction holes where a body might be hidden underground without fear of discovery. Something to think about.

http://science.howstuffworks.com/quicksand.htm

Good morning all, the link has some video regarding "quicksand" in a river bed. Aruba has so much ground water which is why these areas appear so frequently.

I do hope Natalee is found, even if I don't always believe in the logic or speculations of some, those concerns never impede my desire for her to be found and the family to have closure.

I don't think if she is found that it would ever pressure Aruba to solve the case, it's a given this was more than just Joran and Natalee with a tryst gone awry. Had it been only that, if Aruba didn't have something larger to conceal, the likes of Renfro and Tito and AHATA's force over the internet would have never emerged.

I went to see the new movie Duplicity last night and afterwards all I could think was that the Shango believers should go see it. It's a riddle within a riddle type of feature, very well done, but might open their eyes to how folks get duped!

Does anyone know if electron magnetic resonance imaging to determine the existence of hidden wells and underground hidey-holes has been done in Aruba re: Natalee's disappearance?

http://www.kwtx.com/nationalnews/headlines/41604692.html

(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b258/texasmom55/HollowayCaseNews1/03222009kwtx_1.jpg)(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b258/texasmom55/HollowayCaseNews1/03222009kwtx_2.jpg)

I have always thought that there are too many people who know what happened for it to NOT come out at some point. Ultimately, I still do believe that.

What I did not figure on is the singleness of purpose from so many factions to hide the truth.

There has to be a reason. I don't think it's impossible that tourism is at the heart of it, and early on solving the case dictated that the cover up would be exposed, which cycles back to tourism concerns. I'm not sure how plausble that speculation is at this point, but IMO, nothing is plausible when you look at what Aruba has done to itself regarding this case.

edit: keyboard has a mind of it's own..........

There was never an "exit strategy" in place!

Good Afternoon Monkeys....  bastibro, texasmom, Magnolia, socialfriend2, Frijole, CBB, wreck, Ree and 11 Guests

I see We have no news Yet in regards to Fred and Rhino's Search......  ::MonkeyNoNo::

I don't believe the "search" will turn up anything ................. I would pray that an "anonymous package" would mysteriously show up before Golba leaves the island.

Exactly Wreck! I honestly think they thought it would melt away eventually. They couldn't imagine they were putting themselves in the deep freezer, and even now they are the only ones who can pull the plug on it. What would be exposed is so much worse at this point though that they just keep running headlong down the path they stepped foot on at the beginning.   ::MonkeyNoNo::

Hey...................  Merry Christmas, but if you'd like to follow the usual calendar, here you go:  ::MonkeyWink::
(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c100/crazybabyborgs/Easter/Wreck.gif)
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c100/crazybabyborgs/Easter/Wreck.gif

and Hotping? I made a new one for you, if you'd like it:
(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c100/crazybabyborgs/Easter/hotping.gif)
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c100/crazybabyborgs/Easter/hotping.gif

Wreck - are you still celebrating Christmas??   ::MonkeyWink::

I pray they finally send Natalee home too!! But do you really think Aruba will do that?? 

I doubt it ..... but we can pray.


(Thanks, CBB!)

I wonder how Dave felt when found out his plans to send a search dog was all over the news.........just thinking out loud!!

There is no doubt in my mind that the authorities, current or past, know what happned to Natalee and her remains. Allowing the remains to be returned to her family is the first step to closing the chapter for her family and for Aruba. But the distance to travel is a long journey at this point before Aruba restores itself to the perception that existed before this case. So they just keep walking in the wrong direction.

If there WAS a secret deal made to actually bring Natalee home -- it was probably "quashed".  ::MonkeyNoNo:: Fred "blabbed" to a flight attendant.

True wreck but CBB, I also believe that the dirty hands extend so far up the food chain, that until that network topples or is exposed - it's likely those lower down the chain don't dare talk.

jmho

Does anyone know the statistics of how badly their tourism business has been effected?? 

Oh, I agree, nonesuchey! Somebody's managed to apply steady and effective pressure throughout.

I  just keep Praying that Aruba will finally do the right thing......I don't care how They do it as long as Dave and Beth get Natalee back! 

I'm with you, hotping! It will take Aruba seeing it is to their advantage, IMO. I don't think they'll ever respond to an internal motivation to do what is right. I don't think they have that within them.

I Agree CBB...Maybe one day soon they will realize it might help Their Precious Tourism to do the right thing...... ::MonkeyEek::

BBL Monkeys.....Have a Great Afternoon Everyone!  ::MonkeyCool::

Prosecutors: Natalee Holloway's father pays for search dog, handler to look for body in Aruba
By DANICA COTO Associated Press Writer
4:26 PM CDT, March 20, 2009

SAN JUAN, Puerto Rico (AP) — Natalee Holloway's father flew a search dog and handler to Aruba to search for the missing teen's body on Friday, although prosecutors said they have no new leads in the case.

Ann Angela, a spokeswoman for the Aruba Prosecutors' Office, said the dog is searching a small reservoir in northwestern Aruba that witnesses have previously identified as a location where Holloway's remains might be found.

Holloway, from Mountain Brook, Ala., disappeared in May 2005 in the Aruban capital Oranjestad. She was 18 at the time.

Angela said neither police nor prosecutors have any new information in the case, but they gave Dave Holloway permission to search.

Dave Holloway did not immediately return a message seeking comment. His attorney, Vinda de Sousa, told The Associated Press he insisted on another search of the reservoir after a witness who identified it as a possible location passed a lie detector test in the U.S.

De Sousa said she does not know how long the dog and its handler will remain on the island, nor how much Holloway is paying for the search. She added that the search had been planned for some time.

Holloway's mother, Beth Holloway Twitty, said she was not aware of the development and declined further comment.

Natalee Holloway was last seen leaving a bar with Dutch man Joran van der Sloot on the final night of a high school graduation trip.

No trace of her has ever been found despite extensive searches involving hundreds of volunteers, Aruban soldiers, FBI agents and even Dutch F-16 jets.

Dutch prosecutors have said authorities still lack proof they need to convict Van der Sloot, who has been arrested twice and released for lack of evidence.

http://www.fox2now.com/news/nationworld/sns-ap-cb-aruba-missing-teen,0,1729721.story

THE POND


APRIL, 2008

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman - 04/07/08: There are 18 targets. Two are definitely tires. The rest, who knows. It's likely tin cans, mud clumps, and debris. There is one small box-like target but it's only 2ft across and doesn't have much relief, unless it's completely sunk into the mud (likely). I can find something about the size of a hockey puck with that system in good conditions. The water was very shallow when this survey was done. Remember, in February 2006 the pond was almost dry.


SEPTEMBER, 2008

Natalee Holloway Investigation: Exclusive … Tim Miller of Texas EquuSearch in Aruba to meet With ALE/Prosecutor … New Witness That Puts Joran & Paulus Van der Sloot Near Ponds on 5/30/05

Diario - Jossy Mansur

In the meantime, the Americans, with police permission, made a sonar
test of the Dam of Monserat in the beginning of this year, when the
level of the water was low. DIARIO has found out that this test discovered 15 objects of interest and that they could define only 3 of them.

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2008/09/10/natalee-holloway-investigation-exclusive-tim-miller-of-texas-equusearch-in-aruba-to-meet-with-aleprosecutor-new-witness-that-puts-joran-paulus-van-der-sloot-near-ponds-on-53005/#more-6039


JANUARY, 2009

January 6, 2009
Press Anouncement
Ladies and gentlemen!

Hans Mos:

In the month of March 2008 a witness who was urged by Dave Holloway to step forward confronted the Prosecutor’s Office. The man gave a statement on March 16th 2008 accompanied by his lawyer. This witness statement is already widely known: the witness claims he saw Joran van der Sloot in the middle of the night of May 30th walking in front of his house, soaked up to his chest, walking on one shoe and heavily breathing. He was walking into the direction of the hotels, coming from the direction of the Church at Noord. What the witness was actually aiming for was the Police to conduct an intensive search in the dam of Monserrat. Nevertheless the witness could not give us any reason why the Police should conduct a search in the dam. It was the conclusion of the witness that Joran had come from the dam since he came walking from that direction.

There was no indication whatsoever that Joran had been at the dam. For that reason the Police were not ordered to conduct that search. Later, people from the Persistence asked if they were allowed to conduct a search. They were told that they could go ahead if the wanted to. No results were reported. Besides that, the Monserrat dam, which had completely fallen dry by that time, was not long before that request completely searched by dozens of people, for a completely different reason. No results were reported.

http://gretawire.foxnews.com/2009/01/06/aruba-prosecutor-5-page-letter-dont-miss-the-part-where-he-trashes-fox-and-menever-dull/

Tracker dog to search for Holloway remains
Published: Saturday 21 March 2009 08:47 UTC
Last updated: Saturday 21 March 2009 15:13 UTC
A new search for the remains of missing US teenager Natalee Holloway will get under way in Aruba this weekend. Dave Holloway, father of the missing girl, has sent a specially trained tracker dog to the island. Mr Holloway is concentrating the search at a flooded dam.

The Aruban authorities believe the search is a waste of time but have agreed to co-operate. The public prosecutor's office says it will take a few more months to conclude the enquiry into Natalee Holloway's disappearance.
Natalee Holloway disappeared on 30 May 2005, on the final night of her high school graduation trip to the Caribbean island. In 2008, Dutch student Joran van der Sloot was secretly filmed confessing that he saw her die on the beach and had a friend dispose of her body. He later told police that his story was a lie.

Aruba is a former colony of, and now an autonomous region within, the Kingdom of the Netherlands. Together with Bonaire and Curaçao, it forms part of the Lesser Antilles island chain. It is a popular tourist destination for visitors from the United States.


http://www.radionetherlands.nl/news/zijlijn/6224683/Tracker-dog-to-search-for-Holloway-remains

 ::MonkeyShocked::

Never was a question for me, Klaas. 

Thanks for bringing that over.  The Fox news interview only substantiates that Natalee's friends and classmates held her in high esteem, were truly concerned for her, and never saw her after C&C's.

My heart aches for Beth and Dave and all of Natalee's loved ones, and it amazes me that so many want to turn the tragedy of the loss of Natalee into their personal battlegrounds. 

You are either in support of Natalee and her family, or you're not.  It isn't complicated.

I continue to stand with the girl, and her loved ones, until she comes home.

Anyone who doesn't, I ignore.

 ::MonkeyCool::

Helen Back

No Questions Here Klaas I understand perfectly!  ::MonkeyShocked::

Please excuse me if this link was provided in the past! I found it rather an interesting read about the geological formations and caves on Aruba.

http://tinyurl.com/dfhvdd

I didn't realize the extent and the number of caves on that Island and how easily they are accessed and what perfect hiding places they would afford one trying to hide a body quickly.

Thanks Art.

Fred Golba search those caves when he was in Aruba in 2006.
Edit to correct year, per Janet.
Janet

+++++

FRED GOLBA

'Rita Cosby Live & Direct' for March 15
updated 9:08 a.m. PT, Thurs., March. 16, 2006

The Caves

COSBY:  And we have some exclusive details to tell you about in the Natalee Holloway case tonight.  LIVE & DIRECT has learned that a new search is now under way on the island of Aruba for the missing Alabama teen.  Just today, a team headed into an Aruban cave looking for clues.  And tomorrow they‘re headed back to the sand dunes.

On the phone with us right now tonight from Aruba is Fred Golba.  He‘s with the search group, called Child Watch Canine.

You know, Fred, why the caves?  Everyone‘s going—it sounds like this is the first time we‘ve heard of caves being searched.  Why there? 

FRED GOLBA, CHILD WATCH CANINE:  Well, these caves are out in the Baby Beach area on the other side of San Nicolas.  And what I do each morning is I go to the police department, and I check in with them, and they give me defined areas to go and search. 

And this was an area that they suggested that I go into and search to rule it out.  And what we did was we went out there.  And it looks like, you know, a desert field on the top, with cactus and some grass out there, which is very easily accessed from the main road.  You could drive a regular motor vehicle out to the area.

And as you walk out there, there‘s these air shafts that go down into these gold mines and phosphorus mines.  And some of these holes go down 50 feet, 100 feet, and you cannot see the bottom down in there, in some of them.

So what I did was I took your producer with me, and we did a repel down into the caves.  And we walked around, you know, down below ground in these caves, checking below these air shafts, to see if somebody had discarded the person that we‘re looking for down there. 

COSBY:  Was there anything—as we‘re looking at some pictures, by the way, Fred, of you and your dog right now—anything that you saw of interest?  And were Aruban investigators with you during this search? 

GOLBA:  No, they knew that I knew the area.  So, you know, they let me go out there.  When they have an area that I‘m not aware of, they will escort me out there and, you know, show me defined areas, such as my last trip in December, I was out in the Indian burial grounds, which isn‘t far from Deepak and Satish‘s house.

And we went out there, and there was a real big well that was, you know, a very old well that was out there.  And we weren‘t able to search it, you know, in any way, shape, or form, and not with a dog, because the sides of the wells were—you know, it‘s not accessible by a dog. 

So what we did was we went there today with the infrared camera, and we put a camera head down to the bottom of the well and searched the bottom of the well and came up negative.  So we have ruled out the Indian burial grounds, and we ruled out the air shafts and the caves out by Baby Beach, which is almost right across the street from the prison.

The Sand Dunes  

COSBY:  Now, I know you‘re also going to be looking at the sand dunes.  And we have some old pictures, sort of, of the sand dunes.  But why do you think that you would have success?  It seems like a lot of people have combed that area before.  What makes you different?  And what do you expect out of it?

GOLBA:  Well, what‘s different now is we went out there and we searched these areas last time in a grid-elimination process, you know, just picking an area that looked good and accessible.  And we went out, and we aerated some large areas, which was very tedious work. 

It‘s very hard to aerate, but aeration is a very good technique.  You know, if you‘re in the right area, you‘re going to find the person.  It‘s just very hard, laborious work to do.

COSBY:  How long—real quick.  Real quick, Fred, because we just have a second.  How long do you think it‘s going to take? 

GOLBA:  I don‘t know.  There‘s an area about the size of two football feels, and it‘s on the opposite side of the dune that we did last time when we were here in August.  And we‘re going to do these defined areas. 

We have ground-penetrating radar coming in, which is part of Child Watch as a resource.  And we‘re going to do the aerating, dog, metal, because Natalee was believed to have some jewelry on her, so we‘re going to use three or four different techniques in each grid that we do.  And if she‘s out there, we‘ll find her. 

COSBY:  All right, Fred, well, we wish you a lot of luck.  And thank you so much for being with us. 

So how and why did the Aruban government decide to hire their own team to complete a new search of the island?  How did this time get involved?  LIVE & DIRECT tonight is Steven Cohen, special adviser to the Aruban government.

You know, Steve, we‘ve had Tim Miller from EquuSearch, all these different guys on there.  They were all sort of turned down by Dompig and it seemed like the Aruban government, of course, the chief of police there.  Why this team? 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11857796/

EDIT!!

Fred Golba search those caves when he was in Aruba in 2006.

Fixed it in your post. 

OH good, Janet, Thank You. I was sort of "out of commission" for over a year and missed a lot that had happened during that period of time. I am glad he searched them all.

Well, I am not sure we can trust the Snorkel Spaniel. ::MonkeyTongue::

Glenda at RU says that he stayed with her after he chewed up the hotel room
the last time he was there.  Her kids loved him. ::MonkeyWaa::

Thank you MuffyBee.

I promise never never to bother Klaas or the Mods again in regards to editing or deleting my posts.

 ::MonkeyHaHa::

Janet

 ::MonkeyEek:: ::MonkeyShocked::

 ::MonkeyNoNo::

IMO, it is just as bad to lie about these MB kids as it is Natalee because lying about the children of other people is just plain wrong.  And posting a fake link is a double lie. 

But that person has always lied about the MB kids and tried to implicate them in some way or other and reeks of jealousy.  Also is hand puppet of Reality, one of the nastiest posters ever about Natalee. 

And it is so interesting to see who is A-OK with this kind of thing these days.  Makes one wonder what they were thinking the whole time.

FRED GOLBA - THE DUNES

'Rita Cosby Live & Direct' for March 29
updated 8:56 a.m. PT, Thurs., March. 30, 2006

COSBY:  ... And joining me now is someone who just returned from Aruba after searching for Natalee, Fred Golba.  He's a searcher for Childwatch Canine.  Fred, this area that they're searching, you know it well.  How complex? 

And do you think they'll find anything?

FRED GOLBA, CHILDWATCH CANINE SEARCH:  Well, there is quite a bit of an area out there in that sand dune.  That's the sand dune that I had searched with Aruba search and rescue back the second week in August.  And that dune has changed considerably from August until this trip here that I just made.  It is totally changed out there, compared to what we had done.  The area that we had searched has actually been blown away.

And what I think they're doing is the other side of the dune, a little farther north and east from where we originally searched.  And there is quite a bit of area out there, but from what I understand is they have a defined area to search.  And you know, they got the ground-penetrating radar with two dogs and the aerating technique, which if they get into the right area, I'm sure that the Dutch will find her, if she is out there.

COSBY:  Do you believe she's out there?  What's the sense you're getting, Fred?  Because you were on the ground there just recently.  Do you think they believe these tips, or are they grasping for straws?

GOLBA:  You know, what story to believe, I don't know.  But I do think and I do believe that they think that she is out there, due to this tip.  You know, they went out there frantically searching themselves with probes, you know, trying the technique, which you need to do it a few times to get good at it.  And that's why they wanted the Dutch to come back in and they allowed me to come back in, because the aerating technique is the same that the Dutch is using now.  And you can feel the areas under the sand with the probes.  And honestly, to me, the probing technique and the dogs are more thorough than any machinery.  Ground-penetrating radar is good.

COSBY:  You know, real quick, Fred, you talked about the dogs.  You also talked about the wind.  I was down there, and it was so windy.  Real quickly, I mean, do you think that the dogs are still going to be able to pick up a scent after all this time, given the climate, too?

GOLBA:  Well, the dog isn't the miracle tool out there, it's the combination between the aerating, the dogs and the ground-penetrating radar.  That's where the radar comes in, is, you know, if the radar picks something up, then you can probe it, put holes in it, and then, hopefully, you can puncture it and the dogs will hit on it.  If the dogs hit on it, then you got a very highly likely area and—to, you know, dig up, and you know, confirm what is under there.  If the dogs hit on it, it's probably a for sure hit.

COSBY:  Well, Fred, thank you very much.  We appreciate all the hard work you're doing there.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12079741/

Would that be the same Glenda who posted email supposedly received threatening Julia but was in fact addressed to ATA long ago?

No, I did not know she was so involved with Goldba and his dog but did have the feeling there was something I could not recall other than him being the only searcher approved by ALE for some very strange reason.

And these dogs are SUPPOSED to be trained and should never be behaving in that manner of wrecking a hotel room.  I wonder exactly what Rhino's credentials are.  Anyone know if they are online and certified, not just Goldba or Julia's word for it, please.

http://www.kovandijkvertelt.nl/?p=2529 (http://www.kovandijkvertelt.nl/?p=2529)  (Dutch)

Dave Holloway, Natalee's father, has a private tracker with sniffer dogs sent to Aruba. Dave believes that there is no good to the body of his daughter is found. I can well imagine his dissatisfaction because who still believed in the fairy tales of Joran van der Sloot? Apart from its dubious and repeatedly challenged confessions, the body must be as aangespoeld really Natalee was dumped into the sea. Ashore is not the case, so there is still a small chance that Natalee somewhere buried on the island.

It seems to me an almost impossible task for an island such as Aruba millimeter for millimeter to combs. Holloway is also not planned. According to the Telegraaf, the investigators focus on a flooded dam on the island which previously was spoken by a witness. The Public Ministry is not that the body of Natalee Holloway in the dam area.

Coincidence that I calculated last Thursday with Telegraph journalist Bert Cottage Holloway spoke about the issue and the many (useless) tips psychic. Holloway was also indirectly raised. Yet it would not surprise me if the psychic that Natalee is still alive to see the same gain. In any case I feel that Natalee is not on the beach come to life or life is. But that feeling is not such that I exclude other options. If I Paul van der Sloot, the father of Joran see I always think: this man knows more.

But let's assume that Natalee is indeed deceased and that person is responsible for her death. How do you remove than a corpse? A detective with whom I came into contact through my involvement with the case of missing toddler Maddie MacCann reported the possibilities. The sand on the coast did not stop so much meaning, sooner or later a corpse is above or you have very deep graves. Dumping at sea is completely foolish, because the probability of a corpse aanspoelt is great. In Portugal the situation was slightly different because of the currents and the presence of griffon vulture. Remains buried on the mainland, somewhere in the dunes or a wooded area. The latter is recommended because of how horrible it may sound, nature removes a corpse quickly. The details I will save my readers.

However, there is a much simpler and more effective method for you to dispose of a corpse, which is dump, landfill or hand in the incinerator. Let there be now in the immediate vicinity of the house of Paul van der Sloot a landfill are .... In our country the waste is carefully sorted, but in other countries is not the case. Everything is the great hope and many landfills are not, like us, had been closed. Piece of cake for you so you "ballast" to discard. If the body with some knowledge of affairs has been eliminated will never be found.

In my heart I hope of course that the sniffer dogs succeed. Not least because there is no chip crystal remains of Peter R. de Vries. Obviously my thoughts go out to the father of Natalee. I know only too well what this man has in recent years to make. We saw mainly ex-wife Beth in the picture. That was the word and found plenty of publicity. At its attitude, it is necessary to brands. Now Beth golddigster other things to her mind is the turn for Dave. He seems a nice man who deserves all the support. Let us follow the developments.

Not surprised at all Klaas!  No question in my mind at all why you don't trust her, only why others at pro Natalee sites DO trust her.  Her activities speak for her agenda loud and clear.

This is just another fine example of the services LoRain provides for Reality and her other "friends" at BNH.  It's no wonder she was welcomed back even after being banned there for creating drama about Rene Gielen's participation on their forum.

 ::MonkeyNoNo::

Thank you, Muisje,

I wonder if that author even knows Beth is teaching every day to earn a living so I do not approve of the "golddigster" remark at all.  The only "goldigsters" I see are the Arubans who refused to arrest the obvious suspects and tried to cover this up to protect their precious tourism.  Would love to see some accurate figures on tourism in Aruba currently.

But you are only the messenger and I certainly am not faulting you for anything and do appreciate your sharing with us what is being said elsewhere about all of this for we do need to know and also have other perspectives as long as they are valid.

 ::MonkeyLaugh::

Dothan News--nothing new

http://www.wtvynews4.com/home/headlines/41634072.html


Boston~Nothing new either

Excerpt:

Fred Golba and his dog, Rhino, were hired by Natalee's dad, Dave Holloway, and have been to Aruba eight times already to look for her.

They're conducting the latest search this weekend, after a tip from a witness who said he saw Joran van der Sloot coming out of a pond with only one shoe on. Van der Sloot is believed to be one of the last people to see Holloway.

"What I want to do is stick my arms in from elbows to shoulders and feel for bones and his sneakers," Golba said.

Golba has found hundreds of missing people in his career and says he won't give up hope.

He says the witness passed an FBI polygraph and he has no reason to doubt the new information.

"I have more confidence in this pond then anything I have done in eight trips to this island," he said.

Holloway was last seen in May of 2005.

http://www.myfoxboston.com/dpp/news/local/032109_Local_man_dog_search_for_Holloway

 

Thank you Anna. Mr. Van Dijk follows the case from the beginning and has already been written many colums on his website. Unfortunately for all monkeys, the website is in Dutch.
I don't know whether everything he writes is based on truth.

Muisje

Remember when Julia accused Jug of physically assaulting her?  And all the horrific things she said about him as well as Beth?  It's so surprising to see some so unquestioningly supporting her and her friends Fred and Rhino.

I have read Robin Holloway saying Julia wants Natalee found almost as much as they do but am still surprised when others uphold her while claiming to be seeking justice for Natalee.  Personally, I just don't believe it can be found in such sources as Julia Renfrom and Reality and Mark Purcell. 

But I would take it anywhere we could get it.  Just don't look to those particular sources with the trust some seem to have for them including supporters of this pond theory and those conducting the new search.  I wonder if Rhino will again stay with Julia and her kids who love him so.

Hotping & Lifesong were looking for a contract that Kaplan Industry acquired from Mermis.  This paragraph from your link made me think of it again.  The name is somewhat common, but it grabbed my attention:

Mr. and Mrs. Kaplan lived on the north edge of the expanse of coral in which the cave (we called it “The Colony Cave” at the time, or just “The Cave”) was located. Harvey Kaplan, a boy perhaps two years older than I was, was a very active and fearless kid. Like all of us, he wandered over the coral, throwing rocks at lizards living in fissures in the coral (which tended to fill in with light soil and grow little bushes that could nourish insects or lizards.) He found a crack in the coral just south of his home, bigger than average, and slithered into it on his stomach. Much to his delight, the crack opened up a little as he crawled east, and eventually led into the Colony Cave itself. The next day at school, he rushed to tell other kids about his discovery, which we very soon began to call “Kaplan’s Cave”! The next Saturday, along with the Burbage boys and perhaps Ronald Turner and others, I followed Harvey (also known as “Tootie”) Kaplan into his private tunnel. It gave me the creeps to have to slither on my stomach through a narrow passage while at the same time curving to the right, but “Tootie” was leading the way and showed no fear at all. As the tunnel became larger, the adventure became more exciting, and my recollection is that we emerged into the chamber just to the southwest of the main entrance to Colony Cave, where water dripped from many spots in the ceiling and lay in shallow puddles on the floor. Stepping out of the narrow tunnel into the large, familiar room was like walking into a mansion.

Anna ... you are right.  Yet ... Robin Holloway upholds Reality as well as MIP6 (Mark Purcell) and Ramm (Peter van der Vliet ).  Prior to being connected with Dave and Robin ... these three showed Natalee Holloway and her family as well as the MB students no mercy.  An obvious Aruban agenda was where it was at.

Janet

++++++

ROBIN HOLLOWAY

Robin Holloway
BFN

August 21, 2006, 03:07:49 PM »

I have made a lot of good friends here at BFN and other sites. I appreciate the efforts everyone has gone to in trying to help us out. Thank you to everyone. I have had the pleasure of talking and communicating with several on this board and would like to thank them and everyone, including especially Debbie, and thanks to Rammstein, Reality, MIP6 and gagirl for their help also. I know everyone won't agree on everything, but we need to keep focus on the real issue, Natalee.


REALITY

Reality
BFN

But the vast majority of the Refugees are just nice people wanting the TRUTH of what happened to Natalee.

http://blogsfornatalee.com/forums/index.php?topic=4454.30


Reality
BFN

Interesting post, but how is the conclusion arrived at that Joran was wild ?
 
From what I have read, seen and heard, this young fellow seems pretty normal, nothing wilder than the MB Kids that were on Aruba.

In fact, a little pussy-cat when compared to kids that age that I have seen and don't even begin to tell me that does not apply to kids from the US.
One has to take much of the slandering of this kid with a pinch of salt, these are enuendos put forth by the Right Wing US Media, much the same as was applied to the alledged victim of Duke.

http://blogsfornatalee.com/forums/index.php?topic=4006.msg121427


Reality
BFN

Those MB Brats, I wonder if they have started talking yet, possibly in the last year, whilst in the real world and away from the bosoms of their Mama's ?

http://blogsfornatalee.com/forums/index.php?topic=4226.msg148163#msg148163


Reality
BFN

From what I have been reading over the past 15 months, there is absolutely no evidence of foul play.

http://blogsfornatalee.com/forums/index.php?topic=4670.msg158480#msg158480
 

Reality
BFN

Yes it is very strange that a Senator had to basically, URGE them to co-operate. That doesn't make any sense, don't you think ?
 
http://blogsfornatalee.com/forums/index.php?topic=4454.30


More:

MIP6 and REALITY - are they part of the disinformation team?
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1896.0

When Aruba allows searches, it knows:
**the area holds no clues.
**the area has been professionally cleaned/rid of evidence.

It has been rare (if at all) that ALE has permitted a third party to search.

For peace of mind (if nothing else), Dave can say it has been searched, though.

The only way a search can be done is without Aruban LE involved. You cannot trust anyone in Aruba, it is so corrupt.

Has anyone ever heard of opposite day?

It always seems to be opposite day in Aruba with this investigation.

When honest investigators (not police), journalists, family members are on the wrong track, Aruba lets them search away, often assisting hand in hand.

Conversely, when honest investigators (not police), journalists, family members are on the right track, Aruba does everything in its power to block searches, require permits, start fires (literally), spread mis-information, etc...

Janet,  I have come under direct attack many times from those individuals especially MIP6.  I don't post anything that nobody else posts yet often seem to draw fire for unknown reasons.  I think the fact I started that Murder & Crime Thread is part of the reason.  Another is that they also hate Granny Toad whom I do tend to see eye to eye on and like.

But I am ALL TOO Familiar with their attacks!  And was very hurt to learn that members of Natalee's family support people who attack others who have been behind justice for Natalee from when she was first rumored to be missing.  I have never understood that either. 

Mary Ann,
I am already wondering, in light of what happened on the Persistence, just what would happen if something should be found by this new search?  Are there arrangements in place already?  Would there be documentation and chain of custody and all of that or would ALE simply be once again allowed to take everything and speed away?

It is troubling, isn't it?


.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gM4lWnpFfSI8U0EzxCHT8WVehRowD973AVB80

Aruba: New search for teen who disappeared in 2005
By DAVID McFADDEN – 35 minutes ago

SAN JUAN, Puerto Rico (AP) — The father of a U.S. teen who went missing nearly four years ago in Aruba said Sunday that a private investigator will scour a retention pond for answers that have eluded the family throughout numerous false leads and fruitless searches.

Dave Holloway said tracker dog specialist Fred Golba, from Chicopee, Massachusetts, will begin his latest search for evidence into Natalee Holloway's May 2005 disappearance early Monday. He said the tracker, who has searched for her eight times before, must be accompanied to the pond by Aruban police escorts, who delayed an anticipated weekend search.

Natalee Holloway, from Mountain Brook, Alabama, was 18 when she was last seen leaving a bar in the Aruban capital on the final night of a high school graduation trip. No trace of her has been found despite extensive searches involving hundreds of volunteers, Aruban soldiers, FBI agents and even Dutch F-16 jets with special equipment.

But Dave Holloway said a witness last year alleged that he saw the only remaining suspect, Joran van der Sloot, coming out of the brackish pond in northwest Aruba with only one sneaker on after Natalee's disappearance. He said the witness has passed a polygraph test.

"I've been looking for (nearly) four years and I intend to search all the evidence and every lead," said Holloway, speaking to The Associated Press from his home in Meridian, Mississippi. "(The witness) saw what he saw — or he believed he saw what he saw."

Sections of the remote pond area have been searched previously and no evidence was ever found.

Holloway said he had been waiting for the retention pond to dry up before commissioning this latest search, "but the weather has not been cooperative."

Ann Angela, a spokeswoman for the Aruba Prosecutors' Office, said neither police nor prosecutors have any new information in the case, but they gave Dave Holloway permission to search the pond, which is about a kilometer (mile) away from where she was last seen.

Before he left for Aruba on Friday, Golba told Fox 25 television in Boston that he planned to stick his hands into the pond's muddy bottom and feel around for "bones and his sneaker" while his tracking dog searches the marshy scrubland.

"I have more confidence in this pond then anything I have done in eight trips to this island," Golba told the TV station.

In early January, Chief Prosecutor Hans Mos said his office was "approaching the end of this lengthy investigation" and appealed to the public for help.

Thanks for the update Klaas.  ::MonkeyCool::

Thanks Klaas!   ::MonkeyCool::


 ::MonkeyNoNo::

According to Dutch media Hans Mos says the new search is nonsense.
Unbelievable, the man has lost all objectivity and credibility!

(http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0dw58E41V2fI3/610x.jpg)

bastibro ... for once I agree with Hans Mos.

Logic dictates there is anything Natalee Holloway case related in that pond ... it was planted.

Janet

Wow.Yes, Very interesting.

some day I will learn how to respond to quotes.

The family of Jose Tromp has already had it searched thoroughly and nothing was found.  If the tire is just lying there, wouldn't other things be as well?  

Even if the witness is telling the truth and actually saw Joran from that distance in the dark, just because he was wet does not mean he had been planting remains.  He might have become wet anywhere and for any number of reasons.

Where is that tape of Paulus and the Colombians?  Kyle also already told us there was nothing but junk in the pond.

You are doing just fine.  We know exactly what you are saying.  See the Quote in the upper right hand corner of a post?  Be sure before you start your comment that you go all the way to the end of the previous quote as it will appear to be ended but the last word should be [/quote].  Then you paste your comment after that ending.

But we all still mess up and know what you are trying to say even if you put it right in the middle as we all do from time to time.

Don't worry about it. . . we all mess up the quotes from time to time but still know what is being added.

.

This cover up or whatever is being done now badly needs the words of Kyle Kingman to be eradicated and made to disappear.  I guess that is why the attack on the messengers?

Your got to be kidding me.  Gielen participates on that forum also?  Sick. Sick.  Sorry but Robin (Dave's wife) is a piece of work imo.

This quote by John Silvetti, below, got me thinking:




Silvetti stated he is not allowed to send samples (evidence) to the FBI, by which I assume he means the FBI Labs.  Looking for actual verification of this, even though it does ring true, I went to the FBI's website. 

There, under the Basic FAQs, I found the following:



Well, that wasn't quite enough information for me, so I kept looking and ended up here:



and, a few pages further, here:


We already know this, but to be absolutely clear, the FBI describes their legal attache's as follows:




We already knew this as well, but just to re-verify...which legat would Aruba be going through to coordinate the submission of evidence to the FBI labs? 



According to FBI Lab protocol - Mos/ALE had to go through the Barbados Legat to submit the material (or anything else) to the FBI Lab anyway.

So, it seems to me that a proper protocol onboard the Persistence could (and should) have been to recover any evidence they found themselves, (without contacting the Aruban authorities first) then contact the Barbados Legat and turn over the evidence to them, leaving the FBI then responsible for getting the evidence to Mos/ALE, and coordinating the submission of that evidence to the FBI Labs on behalf of the Prosecutor.

Why, oh why, did anyone ever agree to perform a search under the condition that ALE receive first contact upon discovery of potential evidence or remains?


JMO and only MO.

I don't know if Robin has started posting there again or not.  She'd stopped posting sometime last year, although she promised to stay in touch IIRC.  Someone else may know more.   

Lifesong I share your question and opinion here, for again this was offshore from Aruba and with the history of the LE resisting sharing anything, to not exercise the protocols that might have protected evidence and ensured the FBI had access - just doesn't make any sense at all. That point is what made me suspect of Silvetti and continues to make me suspect.

http://www.youtube.com/v/LLNMkbYJoH4&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0

Who is making this stuff up??


"He waded out into the water chest deep and let her body go."


WTH???


Ugh.  This just p*sses me off!

Did anybody bother to ask Caps a.k.a. Anonimo if he let her WHOLE body go...or just part of it?

Geez... that is absolutely a fabricated statement.

I agree.

When I watch Fred Golba my BS meter just goes off the chart when I see him talk   :smt093

When he sticks his hand in the water are the bones going to be in nicely packed plastic bags.

  ::MonkeyConfused::  Me too San.  And I've seen some BSers. He is up there.

Considering Fred Golba's revelation to the airline attendant regarding the pond search and ... Jim Knox's uncalled remarks to the media undermining Equusearch ... I do believe descret is not understood by this search team who are thisclose to those who possess an Aruban agenda which implies that justice will not prevail to Natalee Holloway.

Janet

+++++++


Family and EquuSearch Respond to derogatory comments from Jim Knox

Natalee Holloway’s family and EquuSearch have responded to the insensitive and derogatory comments by Jim Knox of the newest search teams in Aruba.

As reported earlier today and as seen by many last night, Jim Knox, of the new search team in Aruba made some pretty accusatory and inflammatory comments regarding previous search groups in Aruba. The insinuation was that Knox was referring to Texas EquuSearch in the following comment as much as Mr. Knox wises to play games of parsing words and state that he never mentioned EquuSearch by name. (The entire transcript of comments can be seen here.)

8/14/05
Big Story (Jamie Colby)
FOX News Channel

JK: We arrived on Wednesday, we started working Wednesday afternoon. We met with police first thing as soon as we got off the plane, that’s where we started the cooperation. They were mightily impressed. We presented Fred’s resume of over 2000 finds in 17 different countries and states. They’ve watched the dogs work, they’re impressed, they know that we’re working.

Jamie, I’ve had 1 beer in a week with a hamburger in Saturday.  The previous searchers were taking tubs and ice chests of beer out with them. They’d work 2 hours and come in. They had equipment they didn’t know how to use. I could give you a world of information but…. [

++++++

When emailing the family and talking with some of them personally, all were profoundly disappointed in the actions and the comments made by Jim Knox. What makes matters even worse is it appears that members of the family had spoke to Knox before be left for Aruba an stated they asked Knox to discuss his searches with the media and not talk about previous search team’s efforts. I guess Jim Knox did not understand that conversation. Especially seeing that before he even came to Aruba he made other inflammatory and derogatory comments.

The following is an email that I received from Dave and Robin Holloway this afternoon regarding this matter:

I want to take a moment to defend EquuSearch. Dave and I frequently read posts from this website and want to take this opportunity to let everyone know how much we appreciated EquuSearch and all of the hard work and volunteering they have done in our efforts to find Natalee. Dave was with them every day they were there. The only tubs we saw they carried were filled with water and soft drinks! They are wonderful people and very dear friends of ours that we will stay in touch with the rest of our lives. Negative comments from other searchers will do nothing to assist in our search for Natalee and we feel this was uncalled for. We appreciate all of the volunteers who are looking for Natalee, but want to keep it civil and professional.

Thank you so much for all of your prayers and support! That is the only thing getting us through this.
 
Dave and Robin
________

I also received am email from Linda Allison that stated the following:

“It is unfortunate that the comments were made last night since it is irrelevant to finding Natalee. I have always been a very big advocate of EquuSearch and have met some truly outstanding, hard-working, and caring individuals”.

I also personally spoke with Paul Reynolds this afternoon at great length and discussed the unfortunate issue at hand and how many people were hurt by these comment. I told Paul that there were many volunteers and caring people out there that were profoundly hurt that their efforts were undermined by the selfish and insensitive comments made by Mr. Knox. I told Paul that people truly care about Natalee and your family and want there to be closure for you, but such comments can only do harm and make people not care. In talking to Paul, he was bewildered and simply shocked at the comments that were made. He called Jim Knox today to tell him just that. It was my understanding that the conversation was pretty much a one sided one with Paul doing the talking voicing his displeasure. Paul told Scared Monkeys that he wanted to apologized for the unfortunate and childish comments made by Knox and in no way did the family support anything that Mr. Knox said. Paul also wished to say the following:

“I am shocked and dismayed at the irresponsibility and inappropriateness of these comments. We have always welcomed every volunteer and every person to help find Natalee. Everyone has been gracious, respectful and diligent in this effort to help our family and to go on the air, in a live broadcast and make such inaccurate and derogatory comments is unbelievable wrong and insensitive.”

________

I also received am email from Tim Miller of EquuSearch. I did not want to bother Tim as he has been recovering himself from an illness.

Statement from Tim Miller:

I am very hurt and offended by allegations made in our efforts to search for Natalee Holloway. We brought in every resource we thought possible in her safe return or search for her remains.

I was personally very optimistic going into the Natalee search that she would be located, probably deceased.

Probably the most disappointed people besides Natalee’s family was each one of the 93 volunteers from Texas Equusearch that had to leave that island with no results.

I am extremely proud of every effort every volunteer made. I am extremely grateful to every person that sent us a donation allowing us to continue the search as long as we did.

We also realize the struggles of Natalee’s family and did everything we could do to help support them in any way we could.

Texas Equusearch at this point is several thousands of dollars in the red and credit card bills continue coming in. We will defer these expenses through our own fund raisers and we are not asking for the public to support us in these expenses.

We are asking everyone to continue praying for this family during this terrible time of need. Let us continue praying for the other families who also have missing loved ones who have not received the support that was given in the Natalee Holloway search.

On a joking side, I have no turtle eggs and really don’t enjoy turtle soup and I’m very disturbed that Paul VDS felt as though I threatened him, but hopefully someday he’ll allow his property to be searched.

As far as statements from Jim Knox and Fred Golba, I have thick skin and will deal with these as needed.

Again I appreciate all the support that we’ve received during the Natalee Holloway search and other efforts we’ve been involved in.

Hopefully Natalee’s disappearance will not be in vein and resources gathered will be used for our missing loved ones in the future.

God Bless all, Your Friend
Tim Miller

+++++++

Thus at the time these comments were made the family members had no idea they were being said. Some even found out through SM and direct emails and telephone calls from either myself or other Monkeys for the first time.

Thus everyone can see how one person’s agenda and comments can waste valuable time and resources in the primary goal to find Natalee Holloway. Amazing when one makes thyself bigger than the story. I have to admit I was suspect of Mr. Knox by his previous comments when I previously posted, Calling All SAR’s; Search More, Talk Later.

How anyone can go to Aruba and help in the search for Natalee and use the media air time for their own personal gain, agenda or vendetta is truly reprehensible. I hardly think that this is what the family expected out of Jim Knox nor what he ever claimed he would do prior to coming to Aruba. Jim Knox has has embarrassed himself, the family and the investigation by his actions and I hope understands and makes amends for his foolishness.

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2005/08/15/family-and-equusearch-respond-to-derogatory-comments-from-jim-knox/

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2005/08/15/new-searchers-and-fox-news-have-some-explaining-to-do/

How he could actually sit there with a straight face and do that amazes me.

Money.  Media Attention.  Ego.  Makes me sick.  I don't even want to think about how much Dave is paying him. 

And will Caps be under the mud passing them?

And while I'm at it, if he comes up with bones and it's actually Natalee we all know he was in on the plan.

Anonimo will be handing them to Robo Golba and Aqua Rhino.

 ::MonkeyHaHa::

Thank you Janet!  Here's more:

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2005/08/10/search-more-talk-later/

8/10/2005

Calling All SAR’s; Search More, Talk Later

snip:
 
Fred Golba said he has a plan to find Holloway.

He will use specialized techniques to search the sandy beaches of Aruba.

Search dogs, Astro and Rhino, who Golba trained will be with him. Golba thinks they will help him succeed where everyone else failed.

“It’s been searched, but it hasn’t been properly searched. Not out of arrogance out of confidence. I have a lot of confidence that I’ll find that body from what I’ve seen,” he said.

snip

OK Fred are you ready.  When you see me make three bubbles stick your hand in the water.  If it is only two bubbles just say the dog farted.

SAN   ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyDance::

 ::MonkeyLaugh::

A body "let go in a pond" would have floated back up.
If the body was weighted down, the body gases would make it float back up ie: Laci Peterson

* Dompig
* Caps witness
* pond
* Silvetti
* trap contents were: skull, bones, shoe
* Aruba thinks handing over the bones of Natalee will close it out and they won't have to bring justice, they won't close the case so they do not have to hand over any documents/evidence and Joran and Kalpoes go remain free.
* They need someone they can trust to hand over Natalee's body, someone that is friends with them.



'Rita Cosby Live & Direct' for March 15
updated 9:08 a.m. PT, Thurs., March. 16, 2006

Dompig and Fred have established a strong rapport and a great deal of trust between them, and that‘s why he is there.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11857796/

 

Lets stop blaming Aqua Rhino for the gas. Put a leash on Renfro, and make this circus more believable.

It is not just LoRain ... it appears that Reality must be a real charmer.  After contact with guy ... women are hooked and ... justice for Natalee Holloway takes a backseat.

 ::MonkeyNoNo::

Janet

++++++

The following thread is a very informative thread.  It is beyond comprehension why Robin Holloway upholds both Reality and MIP6 (Mark Purcell).

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1896.0

LOL SAN!!!!!

(http://tbn2.google.com/images?q=tbn:a24C1c7TF32xFM:http://bp3.blogger.com/_YntY1kyKo4o/SBxXrgzrX6I/AAAAAAAADEU/GyzOpGzSYkg/s320/DogFart.gif)

Janet - don't get me started on that aspect of it  ::MonkeyNoNo::

 ::MonkeyEek::  ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyHaHa::

I'm with ya on that.
someone gave me the answers and I don't want to repeat it.

Goldba said finding Joran's shoes would be just as good as finding Natalee.  Does he think the shoes can be returned to Alabama and we will have a funeral for Joran's sneakers?

He seems to also be taking credit for 9/11 victims when I hardly think that required search efforts since it was already know where they were.

And yet Tim Miller is a good horse that has been almost rode to death to use a cowboy analogy so I doubt he is currently able to attempt a search and of course things did not go well with Mos last time Tim was there, something I consider a GOOD sign instead of bad.

I wouldn't leave a dog in the care of ATA agent Renfro for fear of what might happen to the dog.

Yes, we remembered the bashing of others by that search team but were reluctant to mention it as we were already being accused of failure to support justice for Natalee.  However, some people's concept of what justice actually is is very strange and obscure.

Anybody can buy a pair of sneakers and pretend to find them.  It's Natalee that we want.  Nothing less will do and it won't fool anybody, either.  Well, except those for whom logic dictates nothing and blind support for the Aruban agenda is paramount.

::MonkeyLaugh:: ::MonkeyLaugh:: ::MonkeyLaugh:: ::MonkeyLaugh::

Robin Holloway
BFN
November 17, 2006

I am not sure who is posting riddles or why! I don't understand why anyone would do that! There were a lot of rumors going around and I hope MIP6 was able to put some of them to rest when he made this initial topic post. We are just glad he is doing what he can to help us and I want to thank Reality for all he did to put Dave and I directly in contact with him. We need all the help we can get when it comes to finding Natalee and MIP6 is trying to help us do just that!  


+++++++


MIP6
New Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 16

I figure with my next post I should get the boot, haven’t decided which one to use yet the Beth lies or denouncing the Sainthood of Natalee. I have way too much fun watching them all freak out.

http://www.rjames.com/forums/showthread.php?p=24191#post24191


Mark Purcell
Refugees Unlimited

Doc Holladay PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2006 7:43 am
Are the pages from Dave’s work of fiction soft when you wipe with them?


Doc Holladay PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2006 7:43 am
Girls disappearing in Aruba would be on every front page newspaper in the free world “IF” it had ever occurred prior to or after Natalee split to get away from her dysfunctional, cold & heartless, bar rag (thanks Wang) banshee of a mother


Doc Holladay PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2006 2:06 pm
For me one of the main things I would like to see other than Natalee coming out of hiding is for Jug & Beth to make a public apology to the following during primetime, hell lets make it during the Super Bowl and they pay for the air time: Julia Renfro for the assault that Jug performed against her. Joran for all the lies that have been told by B&J against / about him. The K brothers for the same as Joran. The families of J2K for all the hate that the B&J lies have brought to there door steps. To all the great citizens of Aruba and all Dutch territories for Beth’s crap of asking for a travel boycott. To the American people for them being such lying pieces of crap almost nightly for 10 months. And at the end of the world wide broadcast of the apologies I would like to see the FBI than slap the cuffs on both of them and lead them away as the FBI spokesperson comes on the air and state that the public at large has been bilked for XXX number of millions of dollars by this pair.

+++++++

Lots more quotes at:

Topic: MIP6 and REALITY - are they part of the disinformation team?
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1896.0

It's insulting that they think we are falling for this stuff.  Maybe others can fall for it but I most certainly don't.

Exactly!  You'd think someone with the authority to do all of that could at least submit samples to the FBI lab.  I also find it very strange that it was the CIA instead of the FBI that conducted the polygraph tests because U.S. citizens well being abroad clearly falls under the jurisdiction of the FBI instead.

Who told Goldba that Joran just waded into the pond and turned lose of the body and if so, why was it not clearly visible like the tire was?  Did he just make that up or is Caps and Company supplying the information?  Same thing, really.

Klaasend and Kemit

Please fill me in.  I do not have clue what you are talking about.

I do not have an answer to why Robin Holloway would uphold and trust MIP6 and Reality.

 ::MonkeyNoNo::

Janet

The media and most of American do not have an indepth knowledge of the all the aspects of the corrupt investigation and all those who play a roll in furthering the Aruban agenda.  In other words ... BS can be accepted without question.

I cannot wait until Beth's movie is released.  Those who may not pick up her tell-all book LOVING NATALEE may watch this movie and become informed that almost four years ago a 18 year old American citizen was denied justice by an Aruban cover.

Janet

Let's just say that Reality is supposed to be quite the sweet talking ladys man  ::MonkeyNoNo::

Janet,

I don't think anybody would know the answer as to why this happened and it is a real Twilight Zone for most of us, especially those who have been viciously attacked by these people she trusts.

So we have just tried not to go there and question because no one has presented any logical reason for it and we don't want to appear not to support the family no matter how stange the actions seem.
I for one do not know what to think about it and so just try not to think about it at all.  Too painful.

My first loyalty is to justice and Natalee and second is to Beth.  That's just the way I see it and the way I feel and what I think and what I know and no one will ever make me think otherwise.

(http://bestsmileys.com/sick/9.gif)  (http://bestsmileys.com/sick/9.gif)  (http://bestsmileys.com/sick/9.gif)

That is what I heard through the internet grapevine.  However ... the few PMs Reality send me when I was a member of BFN ... were far from sweet.  I guess I do not have what it takes.

 ::MonkeyWaa::

Janet

Janet ~  I don't think you really want what it takes.  (whatever IT is)  JMHO  Reality bites...

Oh, I received one of the sweet ones and responded that I wasn't interested and blocked any future ones.

Apparently, he usually has better luck.

Oh that's gross!   :smt078

At least he thinks that he is!  Worse than gross, I would say evil.

Me too.

(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b258/texasmom55/Greetings/church_lady_1.jpg)

If not, they have a very close relationship!   ::MonkeyNoNo::

Kermit..
I agree with your post  but not sure if THIS (Freddie's & Rhino) is the search aruba will return Natalee remains.
Of course, if anything is returned, there won't be any forensic evidence other the "possibly" it is Natalee.
Nothing will be returned that will link the perps to the crime...moo
What do you think the possibility is that Natalee will be returned during this search? 10%  - 90%?

Anna ... maybe it was your avatar.  Obviously, a 62 year old granny soaring over the American landscape on the back of a duck is a turn-off.
Edit to fix typos- 2 for 1 special tonight.
 ::MonkeyHaHa::

Janet

EDIT:

granning s/b granny

Fixed.

Be thankful for that Janet!    ::MonkeyWink::

I post as just a little BlueBird there.  And MIP5 said he hated birds and frogs meaning Granny Toad many times.  So I doubt it was the avatar but you never know.  After all Lou said I did get all the men whatever that is supposed to mean.  Spite I think as I don't use forums about tragedies to meet men.  EVER.  And I do know that is totally inappropriate!

we're getting too close to something

Dig monkeys dig

Anna ... I believe the principle of Private Eye's message to Kyle Kingman in regards to relationships with the enemy applies to the Robin and Dave's relationships with those who possess an Aruban agenda.

Janet

+++++


private eye
Discussion #742 3/10 -
« Reply #686 on: March 13, 2008, 06:38:07 PM »

... But sharing information with people who work for people who are directly orchestrating the cover up, Rudy, or the Dutch, is the most irresponsible investigating I can imagine. What kills this investigation is people having to come into it, wanting to apply basic investigatory protocols into place, and then having those channels sabotage the new evidence that the new players discover. Of course, as is happened everytime in this case, the new people eventually come to a point where the manipulation of the evidence is undeniable, but by then the fruits of their work are gone, and there is simply another member of the believers of the cover up group. What I pray that Kyle and the crew of the Persistence will determine, is that regardless of how hard working the man that they are working with appears to work, his work belongs to Rudy, and Rudy belongs to the local dutch.

We are not hysterical, ignorant, paranoid people. We have seen the cover up in action, in broad daylight, with impunity, and if you disregard our warnings, you will become the next chump in a series of chumps, no matter how sophisticated your equipment, the level of your educational achievement, or the extent of your job skills and work history.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2689.msg364750#msg364750

 ::MonkeyEek::

http://www.24ora.com/content/view/7795/9/

glenson oduber jr. owing to accomplish two year

sunday, 22 march 2009 - 21:09

family oduber owing to celebra the of two añito of glenson jr. cu owing to achieve one beautiful party of the exercise “curious george”. children owing to goza very much self, cual animacion was encarga for itska, that owing to haci various game for her muchannan y person big. the person grandinan if owing to know of play the stoelen dans very intensivo till cu they owing to on account of break one stoel y strike abao. opa nel owing to prepara all child cu they mascarada y they saco, y owing to give one demostracion at the children is con is break piñata. dad glenson y mami angie owing to canta y after owing to blow the candle for glenson jr. y owing to haci one desire for they son. much pabien still is come of all family y all the children cu they parents. glenson jr. is the first y still the unique grandson of we first minister nelson oduber. much pabien y cu god bendiciona glenson jr. cu the crece beautiful strong y cu the trece much love y felicidad for his mami y dad y all cu is stime. click read more for more imagen.... come across

(http://www.24ora.com/images/stories/news/2009/march/march22/glenson/glenson1.JPG)

Me personally..It's a NO win situation(not that any is a winnable situation,so to speak) for Aruba to allow Golba to discover anything at this point..Especially after what transpired with the cage/trap..Me personally..I think the FBI will be so far up Silvetti,Kingman's,as well as Schaefer's AZZZZEZZZ if they find any remains in the pond,and or in connection with anything Silvetti related or Caps related!I pray that they do with all that has been revealed here.The FBI has a goldmine of information in regards to the AMERICAN TRAITORS..JMOO.. ::MonkeyCool::

Thank you.

I promise never never to bother you again in regards to editing and deleting my posts.

 (http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b258/texasmom55/Greetings/13309501563p6560.gif)

Janet

The timing is impeccable in regards to the search of the pond..Why now?That's the million dollar question.WHY NOW??What are we getting close to,and to whom? ::MonkeyWink::

a source told me: Phone sex, image sharing.....etc

Veggie would not want you to know the rest.

I think we are all trying to be respectful, while genuinely puzzled...

This was a long time ago in terms of this case, and sentiments may no longer be the same, however...without any other public statements to go on I think this is the safest and perhaps the wisest stand to take.

you don't have someone show up to search a full pond for bones, unless it's a diver, right?

Just before this happened:

Lifesong exposed CAPS
PORT was exposed/investigated
Silvetti/Schaefer connections

Yes, indeed, KTF!

Why NOW?  The pond is not even dry as it is sure to be a little later.  What's the rush? 

Why would Dave use Fred G.??

sorry typo!! 

Thank you, Lifesong.  You are a wealth of resources in all of this.

This is sort of the stance I try to take, not question family members but yet not support everything some have done.

Anna - I think she saw you as "competition".

I've known women who see every other woman as competition.  Seems to me she might be just a little too infatuated with Jug?  I mean, were they friends before May 30, 2005?

 ::MonkeyNoNo::


JMO and only MO

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub6_022109/glenson2.jpg)

 ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyHaHa::
funny funny funny San

Golba has been around since the beginning of the case.  He's searched with his dog/dogs in Aruba many times.  He probably has coupons to use up, I don't know  ::MonkeyWink::

 ::MonkeyDance::::MonkeyLaugh::

 ::MonkeyDance::    ::MonkeyDance::    ::MonkeyDance::    ::MonkeyDance::

Fred Golba and Gerold Dompig appear to be thisclose.  Then there is the account of Julia Renfro playing host to Fred Golba and his dog at her home while he was in Aruba.

Considering Mark Purcell's unwavering support of Julia Renfro ... I suspect that this guy is somewhere in the mix.

Janet

++++++

 DIARIO Aruba
10/26/2005

The commissioner explains that every tip is assigned a number and if the tip results in being very good, the person can earn a reward, however the fund Dompig speaks of is a fund from people around the world, especially America, who have contributed with much money to help the family with expenses related to the case, that has now reached some million dollars.

According to Dompig, another important question is how this money is not used to help with payments of, for example, those who come to conduct searches in Aruba.

Commissioner Dompig showed as an example the tremendous work of Fred Golba made with his two dogs some time ago and explains that Golba wants to come back to continue searching.

Given that he is looking for funds to pay for his ticket and stay in Aruba to come search, how can he not find funds from the millions that Beth Twitty has from the fund?

[translated by Getagrip]
Posted by Getagrip at 10/27/2005 10:52:00 AM

http://getagripmonkey.blogspot.com/2005_10_23_archive.html


Big Story (Jamie Colby)
FOX News
August 14, 2005

Jim Knox: We arrived on Wednesday, we started working Wednesday afternoon. We met with police first thing as soon as we got off the plane, that’s where we started the cooperation. They were mightily impressed. We presented Fred’s resume of over 2000 finds in 17 different countries and states. They’ve watched the dogs work, they’re impressed, they know that we’re working.

Jamie, I’ve had 1 beer in a week with a hamburger in Saturday.  The previous searchers were taking tubs and ice chests of beer out with them. They’d work 2 hours and come in. They had equipment they didn’t know how to use. I could give you a world of information but ...

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2005/08/15/family-and-equusearch-respond-to-derogatory-comments-from-jim-knox/


'Rita Cosby Live & Direct' for March 15
updated 9:08 a.m. PT, Thurs., March. 16, 2006

COSBY:  You know, Steve, we‘ve had Tim Miller from EquuSearch, all these different guys on there.  They were all sort of turned down by Dompig and it seemed like the Aruban government, of course, the chief of police there.  Why this team? 

STEVE COHEN, SPECIAL ADVISER TO ARUBAN GOVERNMENT:  Well, it‘s a process, of course, that goes back to the Forensic Institute of Holland.  Chief Dompig has been back there twice now. 

And I think what was happening was a determination of just exactly what techniques, in terms of specificity, could one investigator bring to bear versus another?  And, of course, Dompig and Fred have established a strong rapport and a great deal of trust between them, and that‘s why he is there.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11857796/


MARK PUCELL

Refugee Unlimited

Doc Holladay PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 5:45 am
So to you FUCKTARDS from the other sites that lurk here and are reading my post, you have been warned: If your plans are to mess with Julia, her family, her children or her friends here in Aruba while you come on a so called fact finding mission, you will need to go through the Doc to get to her. All bravado aside, I would not wish that fate on my worst enemy.

Doc Holladay PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 6:43 am
Top my list would be Natalee. Followed by Beth & Julia in the same room at the same time with me sitting off to the side controlling Jug on his leash so he couldn’t shove Julia again. Bad dog Jug, bad dog. As I am asking the questions I could watch that little vein on Beth’s forehead start to throb with anger as Julia sits there calmly giving truthful answers to what took place in reference to the conversations between the two of them in those first few weeks. When it’s Beth turn to answer all I would hear would be a bunch stammering & stuttering along with the “you knows” and not relevant's. Heel Jug, bad dog


MIP6
BFN

Julie has always been and continues to be a good editor in my book. No personal agenda that I see coming from her paper.

http://blogsfornatalee.com/forums/index.php?topic=638.msg6137#msg6137

 

  He likes us he likes us he really really likes us. ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyHaHa::

Muffy, are you gagging?

I wonder just how many times he plans to stick his arm in the mood 'up to his elbow or shoulder' until he finds something..anything?  It really is sadly laughable. 

Well her comment was just so out of left field I never did understand it.  My avatar is a cartoon, a doll, not a real person. 

But you may be right, it's not the avatar but just other women in general.  Yes, her fixation on Jug has always seemed very odd and doubt he initiated it.  And some of us were very casually acquainted before Natalee disappeared only in the sense of belonging to the same organization and not even really by name.

But I did resent the implication that I wanted or was trying to "get all the men" when that never crossed my mind.  I like my avatar because I can change her clothes and create all sorts of scenarios.  So I just ignored her nasty remark but did have to wonder what brought that on as it has no basis in reality like many of her suggestions.

Most definitely. 

TAMIKOSMOM'S THEORY - IN A NUTSHELL

I believe this latest "pond search" is all connected to the happenings encompassing the trap discovered by the Persistence.

I do believe that Aruba may be about to give back Natalee Holloway's remains to her family.  However ... the origin of those remains cannot be revealed.  The trap implies Joran van der Sloot did not act alone in the disposal of Natalee Holloway's body.  Therefore the remains taken from the trap were planted in another location ... the pond and a witness that implicates only Joran materialize.

Think about it.

Joran was seventeen years old ... a minor ... on May 30, 2005.  Justice implies he will receive a slap on the wrist.

Paulus will admit he lied about picking up Joran but ... there will be no consequences for obstruction of the investigation.  Apparently ... family members who obstruct the investigation are given a pass by Dutch law.

Case Closed!

Janet

+++++++

‘The Abrams Report’ for June 30
updated 10:30 a.m. PT, Fri., July. 1, 2005

ARLENE ELLIS-SCHIPPER, ARUBAN ATTORNEY: Well basically obstruction of justice is a criminal offense in our criminal code. However, there is an exoneration for family members in the first degree. So in the case of Mr. Van der Sloot it would not apply.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8430777

Oh San,  too funny!!  That really made me laugh out loud!    great visual!   ::MonkeyLaugh:: ::MonkeyLaugh:: ::MonkeyLaugh::

He can stick his arm where the sun don't shine and will come out with the same thing.

I don't necessarily disagree with your post above Janet....Didn't caps witness also state he saw paulass pick up urine in his jeep? How will that be discounted if the first part is believed?

Well, I just hope he doesn't try to present anybody with a sneaker or a pair of them as they could have come from anywhere including the lost and found at the Racquet Club which is where I have always suspected Joran got some of his or from other people's lockers.  Jossy said Joran had a habit of stealing stuff out of other kids' belongings at school, etc.

So, no, a sneaker is not just as good as Natalee.

But I do hope they return her under any circumstances.

Good Evening Monkeys.... Blue Moon, yucatexan, texasmom, Keepthefaith, mysterious, mytime, AZSunny, San, Tamikosmom, klaasend, billb, SuzieQ, Mere, Lifesong, Magnolia, codemonkey, Frijole, Monkey Mia, oldiebutgoodie, cajun miracle and 22 Guests .....


I see that the Fred and Rhino search has probably not even happened yet since the ALE was not around over the weekend to supervise....So tomorrow may be the day that the planted remains of Natalee might be found....JMO...I don't care who finds them or where as long as Dave and Beth get Her back and put Her to Rest in Peace....in the USA...Joran, Paulus and The Rest of the Gang will pay for Their actions against Natalee one of this days and it won't be fun for them....... So Joran and Paulus have as much fun as You can now because Karma is a B*itch and its going to get Ya......

Kermit....I will do My part to keep digging.... ::MonkeyWink:: 

Ditto!  ::MonkeyWink::

Hi Hotping!   ::MonkeyCool::

Monkeys ... I want to share while Kermit is out of the cage.

My son-in-law just called.  He was just talking to my daughter who is in Montreal with their two eldest sons (9/11) for a Karate competition.  Apparently ... all three were taken out to a French restaurant tonight and ... you would never guess what was on the menu.  You are right!  Frog legs in a wine and butter sauce.  I knew that my daughter would not hesitate but ... I never thought my grandsons would partake.  I was wrong!

 ::MonkeyShocked::

Remember ... do not tell Kermit.  Shhh

Janet

I agree Hotping.  As long as she is Home that is all that matters.

My point is that IF remains are found, there won't be any other forensic evidence other then the remains are those of Natalee.....the remains will not point to the perps...
That will come from the dot connecting that is going on here at SM and hopefully followed up by FBI and other concerned entities..

Hi TM....I've been meaning to tell You Your Girls look Precious in Their Easter Avatar!  ::MonkeyDance::

They taste swampy. IMO

Paulus can claim that he had no part in Natalee Holloways demise ... no part in the disposal.  In other words ... he just picked up Joran after the fact not realizing what had just taken place.  He will claim he did not suspect until Beth and Jug arrived on his doorstep and ... that is the reason he lied ... the reason he obstructed the investigation.  However ... as I posted above ... his lying ... covering up for his son is not a felony.
Edit for typo
Janet