Print Page - Is Clifford Lane Lawless Actually Clifford "LANE"(last name Lane?)

Title: Is Clifford Lane Lawless Actually Clifford "LANE"(last name Lane?)
Post by: doubledecker on June 10, 2009, 01:43:49 PM

I posted this on the CLL thread but wanted to start a new thread for this so I do not clutter up the CLL thread.

I have a thought... well I had the thought last night but was too tired to follow through with researching it. I will try to work on it some today.

Maybe clifford lane lawless is actually Clifford Lane. There are few clifford lane lawless'. There are many clifford lanes. If clifford lane lawless really was born in 1931, according to the age he uses on his addresses, then he is 4 years younger than his brother Paul George lawless/P george lawless. So paul's father was already married to jessie grace dicus I guess, and they had paul george. Then we have clifford lane lawless born supposedly 1931. Now whether or not that is a correct year who knows, but lets say it is 1931. So lets look for a clifford LANE born abt 1931. supposedly paul is born in washington, probably brewster, okanagon county, and it is said "LANE" goes to high school in brewster, so we assume the CLL would also be born in brewster if george webster lawless and jessie grace dicus are his real parents. Maybe he is adopted? remember george and jessie had paul 1927, cll born 1931 that is 4 years apart. then no more children. so you have to wonder if they could even have children. normally back then you will see children born at least every 2 years right after people are married. that is just common then. to have a child, then 4 years later have another, then no more ever, that is very unusual, so what if both these boys are adopted? the only birth records back then are normally the censuses, so you just really never know who the kids actually belong too, they can be cousins in the same household, they can be kids whose mother died in childbirth and the neighbors or friends took them, they can be adopted for a number of reasons. they can be step children of the mother or father. they can be a much younger brother or sister.

I am going to try a clifforn LANE who might match up with CLL, and who might be living with someone near where georrge and jessie are living.

the name clifford lane lawless does not match up with anyone at all in this whole lawless line. that also is unusual, as most of the time they named their children after relatives.

Title: Re: Is Clifford Lane Lawless Actually Clifford "LANE"(last name Lane?)
Post by: lonemonkey on June 10, 2009, 02:18:28 PM

Snipped:
http://www.co.pierce.wa.us/cfapps/linx/calendar/GetCivilCase.cfm?cause_num=00-2-03580-8 (http://www.co.pierce.wa.us/cfapps/linx/calendar/GetCivilCase.cfm?cause_num=00-2-03580-8)

Check this Clifford Lane from Washington out...

Pierce County Superior Court Civil Case 00-2-03580-8

Case Title:    GLORIA A LANE vs. CLIFFORD LANE
Case Type:    Domestic Violence Protection
Access:    Public
Track Assignment:    Domestic Violence
Jury Size:
Estimated Trial Length:
Dept Judge:
Resolution:    11/27/2000 Uncontested Resolution
Completion:

Litigants
Name    Type    Status
LANE, GLORIA A PRO SE    Petitioner    ACTIVE
LANE, CLIFFORD PRO SE    Respondent    ACTIVE

Filings

    e-file document

Filing Date    Filing    Access    Pages    Microfilm
11/27/2000     TEMP ORD FOR PROTECTION    Public    2
11/27/2000     PET ORD FOR PROTECTION    Public    4
11/28/2000     RETURN OF SERVICE SERVED    Public    1
12/11/2000     ORDER DENYING MOTION FOR FAILURE TO APPEAR    Public    1
12/11/2000     MOTION HEARING    Public
12/11/2000     ORDER DENYING MOTION/PETITION    Public
Purchase CopiesPURCHASE COPIES

Proceedings
Date    Calendar    Outcome
12/11/2000    C2 - DOMESTIC VIOLENCE (Rm. 105 )    Motion Held
   Confirmed    1:00 Final Protection Order

Title: Re: Is Clifford Lane Lawless Actually Clifford "LANE"(last name Lane?)
Post by: lonemonkey on June 10, 2009, 02:22:18 PM

Title: Re: Is Clifford Lane Lawless Actually Clifford "LANE"(last name Lane?)
Post by: lonemonkey on June 10, 2009, 02:26:13 PM

Snipped:
http://preview.ussearch.com/preview/ala/newsearch?&searchMName=L&searchLName=Lane&searchState=WA&searchCity=Pasco&searchFName=Clifford&adID=238000C913&adsource=108&TID=5&searchtab=home (http://preview.ussearch.com/preview/ala/newsearch?&searchMName=L&searchLName=Lane&searchState=WA&searchCity=Pasco&searchFName=Clifford&adID=238000C913&adsource=108&TID=5&searchtab=home)
Snipped:
http://preview.ussearch.com/preview/ala/newsearch?&searchMName=L&searchLName=Lane&searchState=WA&searchCity=Pasco&searchFName=Clifford&adID=238000C913&adsource=108&TID=5&searchtab=home (http://preview.ussearch.com/preview/ala/newsearch?&searchMName=L&searchLName=Lane&searchState=WA&searchCity=Pasco&searchFName=Clifford&adID=238000C913&adsource=108&TID=5&searchtab=home)

Searching in Washington I got these California cities that are all near the Lawless'.

    Clifford Lane
Clifford E Lane
Cliffor Lane
   66
   Address Available    Phone Available
Meadow Vista , CA
Carmichael , CA
Fair Oaks , CA
Auburn , CA
Carmel , CA<-----------Near Salinas
Sacramento , CA <------------Near Tracy

Title: Re: Is Clifford Lane Lawless Actually Clifford "LANE"(last name Lane?)
Post by: lonemonkey on June 10, 2009, 02:42:01 PM

Snipped:
http://www.privateeye.com/Search/SearchResults.aspx?auth=&vw=people&input=name&fn=clifford&mn=&ln=lane&dobmm=&dobdd=&doby=&age=&city=&state=&db=www.privateeye.com (http://www.privateeye.com/Search/SearchResults.aspx?auth=&vw=people&input=name&fn=clifford&mn=&ln=lane&dobmm=&dobdd=&doby=&age=&city=&state=&db=www.privateeye.com)

This name caught my eye...
I see the CA, WA, AND GRANTS PASS connection to whomever this is!

LANEY, CLIFFORD CEDRIC
Birth Available
GET INFO

Compton, CA
Eureka, CA
Mount Shasta, CA
Opelousas, LA
Ashland, OR
Clackamas, OR
Grants Pass, OR
Medford, OR
Portland, OR
Edgewood, WA

Relatives:
LANEY, ROBERT H
LANEY, LACHONE P
LANEY, IRA J
LANEY, LORA LYNN
LANEYJR, IRA J
LANEY, SHANE A
LANEY, SYNTHIA T
LANEY, JRIRA J
LANEY, IRMAGENE GENE

Title: Re: Is Clifford Lane Lawless Actually Clifford "LANE"(last name Lane?)
Post by: doubledecker on June 10, 2009, 05:26:24 PM

I have these clifford lane's in washington, they are too old, but they might be relatives? Cll's lawless family is in all of these places and especially in okanogan county. Clifford R lane is born in 1915. if cll is really born in 1931, clifford r lane would have been 16 years old at the time, he might have even been almost 17? that is old enough to be the father of CLL, but young enough he and the mother might not have kept the baby? just a thought. I wonder if the lanes lived anywhere near the lawless's? I will try to check

1920 United States Federal Census

Name: Clifford R Lane
Home in 1920: Molson, Okanogan, Washington
Age: 5
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1915
Birthplace: Washington
Relation to Head-of-house: Son
Father's Name: Raymond E
Father's Birth Place: New York
Mother's Name: Minnetta E
Mother's Birth Place: Canada
Marital Status: Single
Race: White
Sex: Male
Image: 267
Household Members: Name Age
Raymond E Lane 37
Minnetta E Lane 30
Clifford R Lane 5
Constance M Lane 1 7/12

Name: Clifford R Lane
Birth: abt 1915 - Washington
Residence: 1920 - Molson, Okanogan, Washington

1930 United States Federal Census

Name: Clifford R Lane
Birth: abt 1915
Residence: 1930 - Molson, Okanogan, Washington

Washington Births, 1907-1919

Name: Robert Clifford Lane
Father: Arthur J Lane
Birth: 17 Nov 1918 - Seattle

Washington Births, 1907-1919
Name: Robert Clifford Lane
Father: Arthur J Lane
Birth: 17 Nov 1918 - Seattle

1910 United States Federal Census

Name: Clifford Lane
Spouse: Minnie
Birth: abt 1882 - Michigan
Residence: 1910 - Wallace, Snohomish, Washington

Name: Clifford Lane
Residence: 1992 - Tacoma, Washington

Name: Clifford A Lane
Residence: 1993 - Everett, Washington

U.S. World War II Army Enlistment Records, 1938-1946
Military
Name: Clifford R Lane
Birth: 1914
Military: 18 Nov 1940 - Tacoma, Washington
Residence: Washington, Okanogan, Washington

Title: Re: Is Clifford Lane Lawless Actually Clifford "LANE"(last name Lane?)
Post by: doubledecker on June 10, 2009, 05:37:37 PM

Name: Clifford Lane
Address: 501 E 43rd St, Tacoma, Washington 98404-0801 (1992)
[4804 E Q St, Tacoma, Washington 98404-1101 (1988)]
[8155 P O Box, Tacoma, Washington 98408]

so who is bernard and gloria lane? I will check

also at 501 E 43rd
Possible Relatives:

LANE, BERNARD M (Age 48)
LANE, GLORIA A (Age 67)

Possible Relatives:

LANE, BERNARD M (Age 48)
LANE, CLIFFORD

Possible Roommates / Associates:

JOHNSON, ERIC BEN (Age 40)
EWING, DENNIS JAMES (Age 43)
DENISON, BUD V (Age 80)
MCLEOD, WILLIAM J (Age 78)
MARTIN, VICTORIA R (Age 60)
TALAVERA, WILSRANO

there is also a SCHUETT, SHANNON J, at this address; a lot like the last name Shutt, she was another wife of "someone" LOL I forget who right now. was it richard birdette lawless? or john mack lawless? one of cll's uncles I think
__________________________

4804 E Q
also at this address is

Possible Relatives:

LANE, BERNARD M (Age 48)
LANE, GLORIA A (Age 67)

_____________________

8155 P O Box

alsoPossible Relatives:

LANE, BERNARD M (Age 48)
LANE, GLORIA A (Age 67) at this address is

Title: Re: Is Clifford Lane Lawless Actually Clifford "LANE"(last name Lane?)
Post by: doubledecker on June 10, 2009, 06:18:24 PM

Name: Clifford A Lane
Phone Number: 425-252-8430
Address: 1509 Maple St, Everett, Washington 98201-0501 (1993)

425-252-8430
ARLINGTON, WA
GRANITE FALLS, WA
EVERETT, WA

Possible Relatives:

ANDERSON, CARMEN L (Age 38)
LANE, CLIFFORD A (Age 69)
LANE, ROSE E (Age 66)
WICKS, DANIEL R (Age 39)
LANE, E ROSE
LANE, KIMBERLY A (Age 35)
WICKS, DAN R

GRANITE FALLS, WA
EVERETT, WA

Possible Relatives:

ANDERSON, CARMEN L (Age 38)
WICKS, KIMBERLY A (Age 34)
LANE, CLIFFORD A (Age 69)
LANE, E ROSE

EVERETT, WA
GRANITE FALLS, WA
SNOHOMISH, WA

Possible Relatives:

ANDERSON, CYNTHIA J (Age 47)
ANDERSON, COBERT C (Age 65)
WICKS, KIMBERLY A (Age 34)
ANDERSON, TRAVIS C (Age 41)
ANDERSON, TRAVIS C (Age 40)
LANE, CLIFFORD A (Age 69)
ANDERSON, JAMES D (Age 68)
ANDERSON, SHARON L (Age 67)
LANE, ROSE E (Age 66)

EVERETT, WA
GRANITE FALLS, WA

Possible Relatives:

WICKS, KIMBERLY A (Age 34)
ANDERSON, CARMEN L (Age 38)
LANE, ROSE E (Age 66)
LANE, E ROSE

____________________

1509 Maple
also at this address

Possible Relatives:

ANDERSON, CYNTHIA J (Age 47)
ANDERSON, COBERT C (Age 65)
WICKS, KIMBERLY A (Age 34)
ANDERSON, TRAVIS C (Age 41)
ANDERSON, TRAVIS C (Age 40)
LANE, CLIFFORD A (Age 69)
ANDERSON, JAMES D (Age 68)
ANDERSON, SHARON L (Age 67)
LANE, ROSE E (Age 66)

and a bunch of people with the last name of dingman, lee, miles, meronek

Title: Re: Is Clifford Lane Lawless Actually Clifford "LANE"(last name Lane?)
Post by: doubledecker on June 10, 2009, 06:19:58 PM

Washington Births, 1907-1919
about Robert Clifford Lane
Name: Robert Clifford Lane
Birth Date: 17 Nov 1918
Location: Seattle
Sex: Male
Race: White
Father's Name: Arthur J Lane
Mother's Name: May D Groom

Washington Births, 1907-1919
about Robert Clifford Lane
Name: Robert Clifford Lane
Birth Date: 17 Nov 1918
Location: Seattle
Sex: Male
Race: White
Father's Name: Arthur J Lane
Mother's Name: May D Green

Title: Re: Is Clifford Lane Lawless Actually Clifford "LANE"(last name Lane?)
Post by: doubledecker on June 10, 2009, 06:20:49 PM

1910 United States Federal Census
about Clifford Lane
Name: Clifford Lane
Age in 1910: 28
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1882
Birthplace: Michigan
Relation to Head-of-house: Head
Father's Birth Place: Germany
Mother's Birth Place: United States of America
Spouse's name: Minnie
Home in 1910: Wallace, Snohomish, Washington
Marital Status: Married
Race: White
Gender: Male
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Clifford Lane 28
Minnie Lane 22
Minnie Lane 2

Title: Re: Is Clifford Lane Lawless Actually Clifford "LANE"(last name Lane?)
Post by: doubledecker on June 10, 2009, 06:21:20 PM

U.S. World War II Army Enlistment Records, 1938-1946
about Clifford R Lane
Name: Clifford R Lane
Birth Year: 1914
Race: White, citizen (White)
Nativity State or Country: Washington
State of Residence: Washington
County or City: Okanogan

Enlistment Date: 18 Nov 1940
Enlistment State: Washington
Enlistment City: Tacoma
Branch: Branch Immaterial - Warrant Officers, USA
Branch Code: Branch Immaterial - Warrant Officers, USA
Grade: Private
Grade Code: Private
Component: Selectees (Enlisted Men)
Source: Civil Life

Education: Grammar school
Civil Occupation: General farmers
Marital Status: Single, without dependents
Height: 73
Weight: 161

Title: Re: Is Clifford Lane Lawless Actually Clifford "LANE"(last name Lane?)
Post by: doubledecker on June 10, 2009, 06:23:45 PM

so in 1940 clifford R lane is single with no dependents, he is born 1914, he would be 26 years old, not married and no children. hmmm maybe he did have a child who was adopted out? still looking.

Title: Re: Is Clifford Lane Lawless Actually Clifford "LANE"(last name Lane?)
Post by: doubledecker on June 10, 2009, 06:25:37 PM

so who is this?

Washington Births, 1907-1919
about Minnie Pearl Lane Lane
Name: Minnie Pearl Lane Lane
Birth Date: 23 Sep 1907
Location: Snohomish
Sex: Female
Race: White
Father's Name: Clifford R Lane
Mother's Name: Wilhelemina E Arutt
Image Filename: 0467

it can't be the same clifford r lane or he would be 7 or 8 years old when minnie is born, so this must be anoter clifford r lane?

Title: Re: Is Clifford Lane Lawless Actually Clifford "LANE"(last name Lane?)
Post by: doubledecker on June 10, 2009, 06:27:48 PM

well this one dies in wenatchee oregon, stomping grounds of cll lawless famliy

Washington Death Index, 1940-1996
about Clifford R Lane
Name: Clifford R Lane
Date of Death: 19 Sep 1975
Place of Death: Douglas
Age: 61
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1914
RESIDENCE: Wenatchee
Gender: Male
Certificate: 022697

Title: Re: Is Clifford Lane Lawless Actually Clifford "LANE"(last name Lane?)
Post by: doubledecker on June 10, 2009, 06:30:05 PM

Social Security Death Index
about Clifford Lane
Name: Clifford Lane
SSN: xxxxxx8361
Born: 19 Dec 1914
Died: Sep 1975
State (Year) SSN issued: Washington (Before 1951)

this is the same one above, I xxxx out the ss # but will compare it to others I find

Title: Re: Is Clifford Lane Lawless Actually Clifford "LANE"(last name Lane?)
Post by: doubledecker on June 10, 2009, 06:33:23 PM

now this one is with gloria and rose, but the obit date is in 2008 ??? hmmm
so this is weird? its in both washington news and new jersey news.. need to find the obit and see how old this one is, might be the son of the one born in 1914?

Name of Deceased: Clifford R. Lane
Obituary Date: 16 Jan 2008
Newspaper Title: Burlington County Times
Newspaper Location: Willingboro, NJ, Us
Locations Mentioned in Obituary: WA
Shamong, NJ
Jr,

Other Persons Mentioned in Obituary: Southern Office Regional
Rose Lane M.
Nancy Miller
Gloria (Nee Radford)
Cliff

Title: Re: Is Clifford Lane Lawless Actually Clifford "LANE"(last name Lane?)
Post by: Tracygirl on June 10, 2009, 06:36:01 PM

Quote from: doubledecker on June 10, 2009, 06:27:48 PM

This one is interesting

Title: Re: Is Clifford Lane Lawless Actually Clifford "LANE"(last name Lane?)
Post by: doubledecker on June 10, 2009, 06:39:16 PM

Quote from: doubledecker on June 10, 2009, 06:33:23 PM

okay this must be washington township in NJ??

CLIFFORD R. LANE, JR.

Burlington County Times

CLIFFORD R. LANE, JR.

Sicklerville, NJ resident

Clifford R. Lane, Jr., age 65 years of Sicklerville, NJ went home to be with the Lord with loved ones at his side on January 11, 2008.

Formerly of Atsion, Cliff graduated from Hammonton H.S. class of 1960. Drafted by the Baltimore Orioles Baseball Team out of H.S., but elected to stay home after his father's death and help with the family business. Cliff was a former Marine. For 30 years, Cliff owned and operated Lane Transportation for Goodyear Tire & Rubber Co. receiving Carrier Excellence Awards.

He loved baseball, tennis, trains and old movies, but mostly his vegetable garden.

Cliff is the beloved son of the late Rose M. Lane. He is survived by his wife of 31 years, Gloria (nee Radford) and two sons, Clifford III and Daniel. Also survived by one dear sister, Nancy Miller of Shamong, NJ and several nieces and nephews. Greatly missed by his best girl Buffy.

Viewing Tuesday morning 9 to 11 AM in the McGUINNESS FUNERAL HOME, 573 Egg Harbor Road, Washington Twp. where a Funeral Service will follow at 11 AM.

Interment Hillcrest Memorial Park, Washington Twp.

In lieu of flowers, donations may be made to the Commission for the Blind, c/o the New Jersey Department of Health and Human Service, Southern Regional Office, 101 Haddon Avenue, Camden, NJ 08103. Tributes & memories may be shared at: www.mcgfuneral.com

"The Lifetime Tribute

Funeral Home"

Title: Re: Is Clifford Lane Lawless Actually Clifford "LANE"(last name Lane?)
Post by: doubledecker on June 10, 2009, 06:45:25 PM

This is in washington...Now look at neil C lane. He is 12 years old. and he is a "boarder". why? where are his parents when he is a boarder in a house with people who are not related. if they were related it would say the relation. so if something happened to his parents when he is 12, he might have a brother who is also in another family. this is 1930 so he might have just got there. Could CLL be born ealier than 1931, say at the very end of 1929? and end up in another household? it is a "possibility", so I will keep looking. neil c lane should be on the 1920 cenus at age 2 with hopefully his parents and we can see who they are.

1930 United States Federal Census
about Neil C Lane
Name: Neil C Lane
Home in 1930: South Prairie, Pierce, Washington
View Map
Age: 12
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1918
Birthplace: Washington
Relation to Head-of-house: Boarder
Race: White
Occupation:

Education:

Military service:

Rent/home value:

Age at first marriage:

Parents' birthplace: View Image
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Levi J Brown 59
Sarah J Brown 51
Clarence A Brown 12
Neil C Lane 12
Henry Marsh 71

Title: Re: Is Clifford Lane Lawless Actually Clifford "LANE"(last name Lane?)
Post by: doubledecker on June 10, 2009, 07:15:32 PM

this is kind of a weird one look at the names ?

Missouri Marriage Records, 1805-2002
about Clifford Lane
Name: Clifford Lane
Marriage Date: 25 Jun 1927
Marriage Location: Jackson, Kansas City, Missouri
Marriage County: Jackson
Spouse Name: Clifton W Wilson

Title: Re: Is Clifford Lane Lawless Actually Clifford "LANE"(last name Lane?)
Post by: Sister on June 14, 2009, 11:44:17 PM

I have just about come to the conclusion his name isn't Clifford. It's just plain Lane Lawless.

Title: Re: Is Clifford Lane Lawless Actually Clifford "LANE"(last name Lane?)
Post by: Sister on June 15, 2009, 02:53:57 PM

To all the monkeys, I have total confidence in the research techniques and abilities of all of you. As I have been doing your info gathering, I have also been looking for places where CLL could possibly be, including alias, etc. And what have we come up with -- nada, ziltch, nothing that can be verified -- only what someone wrote, i.e. his bio with the Baptist Church. No birth certificate -- just articles. Is he Clifford or is he Lane? Who knows. Marriage certificate between him and Connie, nothing. Only that he was baptized in one place and married in another on the same day (now that's interesting religion). This all begs the question why? why isn't there a record of this man that can be verified by public records. Sure would make it hard to get a passport, wouldn't it. Why I mention this is because I too believe there is a ring/gang/group/cult/whatever label could be placed on it. I am not confident this group are killers, though they would kill. I think they are abusers and possibly even marketers of children. They do not do this for money, though they would make money, they do this for their own perverse enjoyment. It appears to me there are just too many being charged with such similar crimes. Well ladies, this is just my opinion, and I am so glad we are working so hard to uncover the truth. We have facts here, and facts there, and when the correct facts are brought together, we will have the truth. We look forward to that day. If what we are doing can break-up just one ring of these evil people, I know we will all feel we have accomplished a good thing during our life!
So on behalf of abused children everywhere, and I was one myself, I thank you from the bottom of my soul and I thank God every morning when I sit down to this computer for your goodness and dedication for JUSTICE!
ok, now I'm off my soap box and back to work!
:smt055

Title: Re: Is Clifford Lane Lawless Actually Clifford "LANE"(last name Lane?)
Post by: lonemonkey on June 15, 2009, 04:25:41 PM

Quote from: Sister on June 15, 2009, 02:53:57 PM

Sister
I have to tell you this is what I believe, too.

I realize this is in direct opposition to LE's stand on the issue...
Only after ALL of the documents we ALL combed thru did I arrive at this...
Like you said , there was Nada - Nothing - Zilch!

Title: Re: Is Clifford Lane Lawless Actually Clifford "LANE"(last name Lane?)
Post by: doubledecker on June 15, 2009, 08:16:50 PM

I still have a lot of CLIFFORD LANE names I need to search through, there are a LOT of them, last name LANE, first name Clifford. On the other hand there might be 1 or 2 clifford lane lawless names and they are NOT him. So something is just wrong with this name he is using.

Title: Re: Is Clifford Lane Lawless Actually Clifford "LANE"(last name Lane?)
Post by: Sister on June 15, 2009, 08:50:10 PM

DD, this is something you had posted:
"I have never really looked up the birth records for clifford "Lane" lawless. He is supposedly born august 1931... connie is suppose to be born in 1941... but look at this

U.S. Public Records Index
about Connie Lane Lawless
Name: Connie Lane Lawless
Birth Date: Aug 1931
Address: 424 W Beverly Pl, Tracy, California 95376-0701 (1985)
[372 Pinefield Rd, San Jose, California 95134]
[667 Ruby Rd, Livermore, California 94550]

here is is CONNIE who is born august 1931. Is this an error. they have her with cll's birth date and also his middle name, not hers. did she actually use his middle name and his birthdate?

and wasn't the pinefield rd address on something I just posted a few days ago? either in texas thread of with the oregon lawless line. was it with earl n lawless? or gary s lawless? let me go look."

Title: Re: Is Clifford Lane Lawless Actually Clifford "LANE"(last name Lane?)
Post by: lonemonkey on June 15, 2009, 10:48:43 PM

Quote from: Sister on June 15, 2009, 08:50:10 PM

In part, this is why I wonder if he made Clifford up...
So that he and Connie could do things as each other, you know???
Sort of unisex names..Lane & Connie...with Clifford thrown in so that their initials are a perfect match and someone reviewing something might think...just a clerical error.
Is that making sense?

Title: Re: Is Clifford Lane Lawless Actually Clifford "LANE"(last name Lane?)
Post by: Sister on June 15, 2009, 11:06:03 PM

Quote from: lonemonkey on June 15, 2009, 10:48:43 PM

Quote from: Sister on June 15, 2009, 08:50:10 PM

Ha, nothing makes sense -- I swear, it like a boy named Sue :>)

Title: Re: Is Clifford Lane Lawless Actually Clifford "LANE"(last name Lane?)
Post by: Sister on June 19, 2009, 05:19:50 PM

DD posted this

Notes for CLIFFORD "LANE" LAWLESS:
Name: Clifford Lane Lawless
Phone Number: 447-9072
Address: 424 W Beverly Pl, Tracy, California 95376-0801 (1993)
[434 W Beverly Pl, Tracy, California 95376]
[667 Ruby Rd, Livermore, California 94550]

Name: Lane Lawless
Address: 424 W Beverly Pl
City: Tracy
State: California
Zip Code: 95376-3011
Phone Number: 209-835-8406
Residence Years: 1993 1994 1995 1996

Name: Lane Lawless
Address: 11000 W Clover Rd
City: Tracy
State: California
Zip Code: 95376-1703
Phone Number: 209-836-4171
Residence Years: 1993 1994 1995 1996

Name: Lane Pastr Lawless
Address: 11000 W Clover Rd
City: Tracy
State: California
Zip Code: 95376-1703
Phone Number: 209-836-4171
Residence Years: 1997

Name: Lane Pastr Lawless
Address: 424 W Beverly Pl
City: Tracy
State: California
Zip Code: 95376-3011
Phone Number: 209-835-8406
Residence Years: 1997

Name: Lane P Lawless
Address: 812 W Clover Rd 57
City: Tracy
State: California
Zip Code: 95376-1712
Phone Number: 209-835-8406
Residence Years: 1998 1999 2000 2001 2002

Name: Lane P Lawless
Address: 11000 W Clover Rd
City: Tracy
State: California
Zip Code: 95376-1703
Phone Number: 209-836-4171
Residence Years: 1998 1999 2000

Title: Re: Is Clifford Lane Lawless Actually Clifford "LANE"(last name Lane?)
Post by: Sister on June 19, 2009, 05:44:09 PM

Quote from: Sister on June 19, 2009, 05:19:50 PM

Possibility he really is Connie Lane Lawless and he changed it to Clifford. Hence, when young the call him Lane and not connie.U.S. Public Records Index
about Connie Lane Lawless
Name: Connie Lane Lawless
Birth Date: Aug 1931
Address: 424 W Beverly Pl, Tracy, California 95376-0701 (1985)
[372 Pinefield Rd, San Jose, California 95134]
[667 Ruby Rd, Livermore, California 94550]

Title: Re: Is Clifford Lane Lawless Actually Clifford "LANE"(last name Lane?)
Post by: lonemonkey on June 19, 2009, 06:18:48 PM

Check this out....
Snipped:
http://stevemorse.org/birthday/birthday2.php?auth= (http://stevemorse.org/birthday/birthday2.php?auth=)

1. CONNIE L LAWLESS 67 Aug 6 1941 Tracy CA

I think they have BOTH used this birth certificate....
Neither of them were born in Tracy, CA....right???

Title: Re: Is Clifford Lane Lawless Actually Clifford "LANE"(last name Lane?)
Post by: Sister on June 19, 2009, 07:00:44 PM

We have no verified info where he was born.

Title: Re: Is Clifford Lane Lawless Actually Clifford "LANE"(last name Lane?)
Post by: lonemonkey on June 20, 2009, 02:24:31 AM

Quote from: Sister on June 19, 2009, 07:00:44 PM

We have no verified info where he was born.

For some reason I thought he was born in Washington...that was probably bro. Paul, eh?
Perhaps he was born overseas?

Title: Re: Is Clifford Lane Lawless Actually Clifford "LANE"(last name Lane?)
Post by: doubledecker on June 20, 2009, 08:32:14 PM

Quote from: lonemonkey on June 20, 2009, 02:24:31 AM

Quote from: Sister on June 19, 2009, 07:00:44 PM

We have no verified info where he was born.

For some reason I thought he was born in Washington...that was probably bro. Paul, eh?
Perhaps he was born overseas?

I have looked and looked for a birth record for CLL. nothing. I have never found a marriage record for CLL and Connie Harris. Nothing under lane lawless, nothing under clifford lane lawless. There are a LOT of clifford LANES, but I will have to go through them all. Paul George, his brother was born in washinton. 1927. George supposedly died there. Supposedly they are buried there in brewster, can we find a cemetery record? see who all is buried in it. I am told the whole family is buried there, including our missing JOHN MACK, brother of george webster lawless... but there is also another john mack son of richard birdette lawless, who is another brogther of george w lawless.

now just because I have been TOLD these things, does not make them true LOL. I am trying to "confirm" everything with records so we can be sure.

Title: Re: Is Clifford Lane Lawless Actually Clifford "LANE"(last name Lane?)
Post by: Sister on June 21, 2009, 09:31:29 PM

I have looked in several places, but I don't see any research on John Mack Lawless, son of CLL's uncle Richard Birdette Lawless. Just thought it may provide a link, or not.
:smt102

Title: Re: Is Clifford Lane Lawless Actually Clifford "LANE"(last name Lane?)
Post by: Sister on June 21, 2009, 09:37:17 PM

Also, and possibly more important, I haven't seen (doesn't mean it's not here) on the uncle of CLL also called John Mak born abt. 1893-1965. Could also be one of those gap things.
:2doh:

Title: Re: Is Clifford Lane Lawless Actually Clifford "LANE"(last name Lane?)
Post by: doubledecker on June 22, 2009, 12:23:58 AM

I have been told John Mack, brother of george webster lawless (father of cll) did not marry and did not have children. In fact I am told ONLY george webster lawless and richard birdette lawless had children. brother william lawless has an adopted son bill. Seems this family just does not have children. Actually, the only "normal" one as far as having children is richard birdette lawless. george had only the two sons, CLL and his brother paul george, and tha is weird too.

Now is this the "truth"? If so, this is just very strange. why are most all the boys in this family not having children? and many of them never married either.

However, maybe it is not true? but I have not found any records at all that would prove they did have children, so isn't this strange?

Title: Re: Is Clifford Lane Lawless Actually Clifford "LANE"(last name Lane?)
Post by: doubledecker on June 22, 2009, 12:30:15 AM

I stayed up late last night going through all of the clifford Lanes(last name lane). I also went through the people with last name of LANE who lived in washington. The name clifford is very common with the last name of LANE. I still think it is POSSIBLE CLL's real last name is LANE.

I also wonder why he always was visiting his step-mother esther luretta lawless/nee cupery, but he rarely is mentioned visiting his mother jessie grace lawless/nee dicus. She supposedly later married 'lucky louie'. Not only have I read that posted, but I talked to someone about it and they told me yes that is what the family remembers. So who is lucky louie? could his name be LANE.. but jessie dicus suppostedly married him after she divorced george webster lawless. But you also see jessie with the last name of lawless for a very long time after george remarried. its just all weird. And why did cll and george stay with george webster lawless and not go with their mother?

so much to research and not enough time LOL

Title: Re: Is Clifford Lane Lawless Actually Clifford "LANE"(last name Lane?)
Post by: doubledecker on June 22, 2009, 01:13:20 AM

ok, I can't seem to find that we have when george webster lawless married jessie grace dicus. Am I missing it, do we have their marriage date?

I know we have george, jessie and son paul george born 1927, all on the 1930 census. CLL is not on there so we can assume he was born after 1930, or he should have been on there also. are we sure these two kids are even george W lawless' kids? what if they were jessie's kids and not his. she might have married george after she had paul, but she is on the census with george before cll was born, but maybe she was preg with cll right before the 1930 census and he was born right after but had just married george right before then to get on the 1930 census. PROBABLY NOT, but it is POSSIBLE.

or is it possible george might have been married before and these are his boys and jessie was not their mother either, LOL oh they would still be lawless then though.

what if jessie is the mother and their father was last name LANE?

hmm, or they are both adopted? well his brother bill/william, adopted a son, bill. so maybe george and jessie adopted the paul and CLL also. that would make sense why they did not have any more children, also would make sense why we can't find records under lawless. maybe CLL records are all under his real name.

Title: Re: Is Clifford Lane Lawless Actually Clifford "LANE"(last name Lane?)
Post by: lonemonkey on June 22, 2009, 01:50:33 AM

Quote from: doubledecker on June 22, 2009, 01:13:20 AM

Maybe it is possible that something happened and Lane was "fostered" by another family. That's a sticking point when researching...
This happened to me when my grandfather took on the name of his foster parents...not knowing who his real parents were.

I have wondered a few times now, about the possibility of a "black market baby" business going on. MH's son also makes me wonder...among other things...

I bet if we just continue to think outside the box, so to speak, follow hunches, and stay organized, we may uncover something. I wonder if Timothy & Melissa were *close*?

Title: Re: Is Clifford Lane Lawless Actually Clifford "LANE"(last name Lane?)
Post by: doubledecker on June 22, 2009, 01:58:38 AM

Quote from: lonemonkey on June 19, 2009, 06:18:48 PM

this is her birthdate, she was born in monterey
California Birth Index, 1905-1995
about Constance Lorene Harris
Name: Constance Lorene Harris
Birth Date: 6 Aug 1941
Gender: Female
Mother's Maiden Name: Cooper
Birth County: Monterey

they must have moved up to wenatchee as her brothers say they went to school with LANE.

Title: Re: Is Clifford Lane Lawless Actually Clifford "LANE"(last name Lane?)
Post by: doubledecker on June 22, 2009, 02:04:01 AM

so many of the lawless boys had no children, could it be a defective gene? so they adopted. william adopted a son. john mack had none, ralph devere had none, george has only two so very well could be adopted, having only two children then was very unusual. richard birdette on the other hand had a lot of kids.

I am also told that none of the siblings of james webster lawless the father of george etc, had any kids. now this is going on all through the generations, so what the heck is the reason?

keep in mind I am "TOLD" this, does not mean it is true, but I don't know why someone would lie. but then again maybe they do not wish to claim certain family members?

Title: Re: Is Clifford Lane Lawless Actually Clifford "LANE"(last name Lane?)
Post by: lonemonkey on June 22, 2009, 02:05:35 AM

Quote from: doubledecker on June 22, 2009, 01:58:38 AM

Quote from: lonemonkey on June 19, 2009, 06:18:48 PM

That's right...I thought she was born there! I wonder what brought Connie to Wenatchee??

Title: Re: Is Clifford Lane Lawless Actually Clifford "LANE"(last name Lane?)
Post by: Sister on June 22, 2009, 01:55:22 PM

I have in my written notes that John Lawless (married to nee Shutt/Halliday) had 4 children. I have no idea where I got that other than on one of these threads.
Good afternoon Monkeys.

Title: Re: Is Clifford Lane Lawless Actually Clifford "LANE"(last name Lane?)
Post by: lonemonkey on June 22, 2009, 01:59:37 PM

Hi Sister!!! ::MonkeyDance::
I have been going over the The Timothy Lawless thread with a fine tooth comb...there is SO much info packed on those pages!

Title: Re: Is Clifford Lane Lawless Actually Clifford "LANE"(last name Lane?)
Post by: lonemonkey on June 22, 2009, 02:01:26 PM

Quote from: doubledecker on June 22, 2009, 02:04:01 AM

Quote from: Northern Rose on May 01, 2009, 01:42:29 PM

Quote from: doubledecker on May 01, 2009, 01:35:26 PM

Quote from: Northern Rose on May 01, 2009, 01:25:46 PM

Quote from: JessStar on May 01, 2009, 12:59:05 PM

Minnie Lawless 1880 Census Data is attached. The reference to the Nichols being household members is an error on the site.

Lines 37-42

It is not an error. Her mom was Sarah A Nichols before she married Mack Lawless and they were living with Sarah's parents and siblings.

who is MACK lawless, is that john mack? or part of his line? do you know right off hand.

gee I am trying to do too many lines at once. I will stick to timothy john for right now because I am seeing connections up in washington where the ccl lines are. but I will make notes and toss out info or do lookups.

McNealy (Mack) A. Lawless
B. 16 Feb 1846 , Patrick Va
D. 12 Oct 1908, Peru, Miami, Ind.

Married 1846

Sarah Ann Nicholas daughter of George Nicholas and Mary Warner 1846, Patrick Co, VA
B. 6 Jul 1842, Patrick County , VA
D. 27 Jan 1914, Peru, Miami, Ind.

These are Minnie's parents.

Title: Re: Is Clifford Lane Lawless Actually Clifford "LANE"(last name Lane?)
Post by: Sister on June 22, 2009, 02:09:56 PM

Hi there friend, yes, a lot about this "clan" has already been dug up by you great researchers. It has often been said it is about at the Richard Birdette Lawless (uncle of CLL) that things get messed up. The McNealy A. "Mack" Lawless you posted is listed on the geneology thread. I have to go there a lot to keep up. Back and forth I go!
:smt090

Title: Re: Is Clifford Lane Lawless Actually Clifford "LANE"(last name Lane?)
Post by: lonemonkey on June 22, 2009, 02:19:06 PM

Quote from: Sister on June 22, 2009, 02:09:56 PM

Do you think the Canadian Lawless' are related to the Lawless' of Washigton or CLL himself?

Title: Re: Is Clifford Lane Lawless Actually Clifford "LANE"(last name Lane?)
Post by: Sister on June 22, 2009, 02:35:14 PM

Title: Re: Is Clifford Lane Lawless Actually Clifford "LANE"(last name Lane?)
Post by: lonemonkey on June 22, 2009, 02:44:20 PM

Quote from: Sister on June 22, 2009, 02:35:14 PM

Well hmmmm...
I wonder if anyone has been a mid-wife in the Lawless family???
That could explain NO birth certificates

Title: Re: Is Clifford Lane Lawless Actually Clifford "LANE"(last name Lane?)
Post by: Sister on June 22, 2009, 03:11:06 PM

Quote from: Sister on June 22, 2009, 02:35:14 PM

Yes, I do. If you look in the geneology thread have Canadian roots. i.e. the grandmother of CLL, Nancy nee Hause Rowland has family in Canada, CLL's brother Ralph Devere Lawless (1902-1968) was born in New Brunswick Canada, etc.
[/uote]

not brother of CLL - uncle of CLL is Ralph Devere Lawless who is brother to Richard Birdette Lawless.

Title: Re: Is Clifford Lane Lawless Actually Clifford "LANE"(last name Lane?)
Post by: doubledecker on June 22, 2009, 10:08:02 PM

Quote from: Sister on June 22, 2009, 02:35:14 PM

in one place Ralph Devere Lawless is listed as born in new Brunswick, Canada. I think this came from a family member's genealogy page and was posted early on.

then I found him on the 1910, 1920, & 1930 census as listed as born in washington.

then I asked someone who KNOWS and they told me he was born in washington and is buried there. So I believe he probably was born in washington. this will be on the updated report.

Title: Re: Is Clifford Lane Lawless Actually Clifford "LANE"(last name Lane?)
Post by: Sister on June 23, 2009, 03:37:11 AM

This is from the Texas thread

Name: Clifton Lawless
Residence: 1992 - DE Berry, Texas

Title: Re: Is Clifford Lane Lawless Actually Clifford "LANE"(last name Lane?)
Post by: Sister on July 01, 2009, 01:16:34 AM

Here's an fYI
in LM's geneology of Canada; a Rose Margaret Lawless married a John Lawlor (that last name has been used) and she worked in Virginia, husband in the service. No wonder we can't find anyone.

Title: Re: Is Clifford Lane Lawless Actually Clifford "LANE"(last name Lane?)
Post by: love4ever on July 05, 2009, 05:43:31 PM

Hi sweet monkeys, been reading the threads, lots more work to research in conecrns to different surnames. I hope this finds all of you well. I have been busy with family and studies, been popping on and off reading but haven't had time to research. I will be back in a few, I have some things to do and then I am going to do some searchin. Before I go I wanted to post the list of names I found when I searched the the address for clover baptist church in Tracy. I found the surname Scott, I have done a little research but not enough. Searched in the states of Cali, Idaho and Washington. I think in Idaho the Clifford Scott court docs are ADA which means there might be a disability and so it is confidential? This Clifford was 77, but I lost my direction because of the need to be a mom at home..lol I also wonder with CLL being in the military, could he have become a disabled veteran? I will be back in a few to do some more searching, hope all is well...

~~Love

(http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/2332/17848258.jpg) (http://img190.imageshack.us/i/17848258.jpg/)

Title: Re: Is Clifford Lane Lawless Actually Clifford "LANE"(last name Lane?)
Post by: love4ever on July 05, 2009, 07:40:44 PM

I searched for Connie L Scott above, for employment:

1. SCOTT, CONNIE L
NEW JERUSALEM CHRISTIAN CENTER..

no city or state listed,
found one in Tacoma

New Jerusalem Church Of God In Christ
1623 S 11th St
Tacoma, WA 98405
Phone : (253) 572-6785

2. SCOTT, CONNIE L
JW FRAMES, INC

BREA, CA

Cited:

http://www.veromi.net/Summary.asp?fn=Connie+&mn=L&ln=Scott&city=wenatchee&state=WA&vw=Employment&Search=Employment&Input=Name&Image1.x=18&Image1.y=8

Title: Re: Is Clifford Lane Lawless Actually Clifford "LANE"(last name Lane?)
Post by: love4ever on July 05, 2009, 07:57:40 PM

I think there is something fishy going on here, I even thought it might be the Robersons new name. Just weird..I can't figure it out

Title: Re: Is Clifford Lane Lawless Actually Clifford "LANE"(last name Lane?)
Post by: love4ever on July 07, 2009, 05:06:26 PM

Quote from: Wyks on May 12, 2009, 10:34:01 AM

1931 - Clifford Lane Lawless born in August, currently age 77, tho some reports say 67

1941 - Connie L Harris born in August

1943 - Arthur DeWayne Harris (Connie's brother) born

1950 - Lane attended Brewster High School, on debate squad in Brewster WA

1950s - Lane was in the US Navy, unknown which years

1958-1963? - Arthur attended three years at Landmark Baptist College in San Jose CA, earned a BA degree in Religious Studies from Sacramento Baptist College and Seminary in Sacramento CA, accredits most of his Bible education and indoctrination to his father, AA Harris

1960 - AA Harris pastored Eastside Missionary Baptist Church of East Wenatchee WA, unknown for how long he had pastored there

1960 - Lane was saved in Wenatchee WA in April; Lane was baptized by AA Harris in East Wenatchee WA on July 9; married Connie same day in Modesto CA, married by her father AA Harris

1961 - Brian Lane Lawless (son of Lane and Connie) born in April; unknown when his brother Brett was born

1963 - AA Harris (Connie's father) pastored the Douglas Street MBC of Omak WA, unknown for how long he had pastored there

1963 - Arthur ordained by his father AA Harris and began his pastorate work in May; was first pastor of Sovereign Grace MBC of Mountain View CA, unknown what year/s

1971 - Lane was called to the ministry on April 6 and ordained August 20 (four months later) by the Winton MBC

1971-1972 (?) - Lane pastored Beacon MBC of Redding CA

1973-1974 - Lane pastored Grace MBC of Gardena CA, all the other pastors at Grace MBC had been there for several years, yet Lane was there only one year

1974 - Landmark MBC of Salinas CA authorized mission work in Mountain View CA which resulted in the formation of the Sovereign Grace MBC of Mountain View CA; Arthur was their first pastor

1975 - Lane sent out by Salinas MBC of Salinas CA to do mission work in Eureka CA

1975 - Lane pastored Sovereign Grace MBC of Mountain View CA

1976 - Lane living in San Jose CA

1978? to present - Arthur pastor of Alisal Baptist Church of Salinas CA for over 31 years, Dean of the Alisal Baptist Institute Theological Seminary, distributes monthly sunday school literature to various churches of like faith

1979 - Lane living in San Jose CA

1981 - Melissa Chantel Lawless (Lane and Connie's daughter) born in February in Orange County CA

1981 - Lane lived in Salinas CA while receiving his theological education from the Alisal Baptist Institute Theological Seminary, received BA degree in religious studies; (by the way, Lane's education received ten years after he was ordained and had already pastored at least three churches)

1981 to present - Lane pastor of Clover Road Baptist Church of Tracy CA; along with Eastside MBC Stockton CA, the Airport MBC of Modesto CA authorized mission work in Tracy CA establishing Victory MBC, which was built on property donated to the church, first pastor James Taylor to 1957-1970, second pastor Charles Scott 1970-1981; Victory MBC then approached Lane and Sovereign Grace MBC of Mountain View CA to request that he consider a pastorate in Tracy, due to pastor Scott failing health; Victory and Sovereign Grace voted to merge, with the members of Victory joining Sovereign Grace, donating their property and assests to the Sovereign Grace Church. The name of the church was then changed to Clover Road Baptist Church.

1982 - Lane lived in Livermore CA and made the one-and-a-half hour commute to Salinas when he taught and preached at the Alisal Baptist Institute Theological Seminary

1983 - Connie living in Tracy CA

1985 - Connie living in Tracy CA

mid 1980s - Lane pastor of First Church of God in Clarkston WA (as stated by current pastor of that church); in the mid-'80s there were allegations of child abuse and/or molestation somehow connected to the First Church of God; Lane was questioned regarding the allegations, but not charged

mid 1980s - Lane supposedly questioned about alleged child abuse in mid-80s at Warner Alliance Church in Lewiston, Idaho, but not charged; church currently pastored by same man who is also current pastor of First Church of God in Clarkston WA; the two churches are just across the river from each other, connected by a bridge

1989 - AA Harris (Connie's father) died in November

1990 - Connie living in Livermore CA

1992 to present - Lane and Connie purchase home at # 57 in MHP in Nov, across the street and down a few homes from where Sandra Cantu lived with her mom, grandparents and siblings before her March 27 disappearance

2006 - Connie elected to San Joaquin Valley's Republican Central Committee and lost a re-election bid in 2008; calls herself a "Children's Issues Advisor";
reportedly is a caregiver, takes in foster care children

-----------------------------------------------------

links for above info:

history
http://www.clover-road-baptist-church.com/church1.html (http://www.clover-road-baptist-church.com/church1.html)

bio
http://www.alisalbaptistchurch.org/pastor.php (http://www.alisalbaptistchurch.org/pastor.php)

article
http://m.thecalifornian.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090408/NEWS01/904080301/-1/WAP&template=wapart (http://m.thecalifornian.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090408/NEWS01/904080301/-1/WAP&template=wapart)

Lane pastored WA church in mid-1980s
http://www.kron4.com/News/ArticleView/tabid/298/smid/1126/ArticleID/1182/reftab/36/t/FBI-Visits-Washington-State-Church-Where-Huckaby-s-Grandfather-Was-Once-the-Pastor/Default.aspx (http://www.kron4.com/News/ArticleView/tabid/298/smid/1126/ArticleID/1182/reftab/36/t/FBI-Visits-Washington-State-Church-Where-Huckaby-s-Grandfather-Was-Once-the-Pastor/Default.aspx)

Yearbook
http://www.abaptist.org/Yearbook/california.htm (http://www.abaptist.org/Yearbook/california.htm)

Schedule
http://www.fmbcbellflower.org/groupschedule.html (http://www.fmbcbellflower.org/groupschedule.html)

Quote from: love4ever on July 05, 2009, 05:43:31 PM

This must be the names in relation to the second pastor Charles Scott 1970-1981 of the Victory MBC...who we also see resided in Wenatchee, Washington at one time..

Scared Monkeys Discussion Forum

Missing, Exploited and True Crime => Sandra Cantu, 8 years old - Tracy, CA(BODY FOUND) => Topic started by: doubledecker on June 10, 2009, 01:43:49 PM