Scared Monkeys Discussion Forum

You all know the rules

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e82/klaasend2/InHonorofNatalee.jpg)

Hey, San and I are still talking over there... :roll:

Sorry Lala's, it had to be done, lol  :lol:

LaLa...What area of Aruba do you need? (maps)

Email me: cindoal@yahoo.com.  I will give you the address I am looking for.

Deepak worked at both CYBERZONE Internet Cafe's

Originally at:
CyberZone II
L.G. Smith Blvd. 9
Royal Plaza Mall
2001-2004 owned by Giovanni Ponson

Then he went across the blvd. to:
L.G. Smith Blvd. 82
Aug. 2005 Owned by Luis Ramirez
and Angelina Reppas

Nadira lost her job at The French Steakhouse
because they felt she was stealing from them.
Also, they felt customers left when they saw her there.

I understand...Red must be sleeping in today.  :roll:

LaLa...You have mail....... :D

I always felt that she lost her job because they were putting the squeeze on her.  Sort of like see how easy it is Nadira if you don't cooperate.  They sent her a message.  Nadira said one thing that is true in this entire case "big people lie."

Good Morning Monkeys!  Good to see you all and good to see alot of discussion last night.

Lots of very interesting stuff.  I am working and lurking as usual.  

I think it is very interesting to see that Deepak's work visa not renewed.  Bet that pissed him off.  Ohhhhh sooo sorry!  NOT!

Florida
You have mail. :wink:

Hi Kimmy.  I wonder if Deepak cares if he works or not.  I don't think the people in charge of cover ups would make it easy for Deepak to talk now after all this time. So what gives?  You are right...interesting.

Did Mrs. Red keep him up late last night?   :shock:

Well, i bought the NE 11/20 edition. It does have an article titled *cover-up in Aruba*. But no Aru-Bay pics...as far as i can see.

Thanks, igsigs.  Does the article have anything of substance??

igsigs the new one comes out in NY usually on Thursday.  If I were still working in the city I could get it on Wed. night the earliest.

I don't think Blond owns the Aru Bay pics, so wouldn't NE need to talk to the owners first?  I know where the pics originally began, but I don't think it was Blond.  I could be wrong, again. :roll:

Tell us what it says. TIA

I'll try and get to the store and scan it and I will sent it to Klaas.

Thanks.  :wink:

A little...Art Wood appears to be the source for the article.

-talks about Joran's 5/31 statement. Paulus sat in on it. Paulus changed it. Now appears to be missing.

-Dutch Team arrived on Aruba 10/12. Stayed 7 days. Did not interview any suspects. Returned home with files.

-Wood, "it looks like they're just going to rubber stamp what the Aruban police screwed up."

-Beth and Dave plan to ask Condi Rice to put pressure on the Dutch government to do more.

-Wood, "All we are asking is for the U.S. State Department to make the Dutch police do the right thing. That means redoing the investigation - and investigating the investigators responsible for the cover-up in Aruba."

Oh Lala's - I think he does care - if nothing but for the fact that someone is TELLING him he CAN'T....ya know?  Deepak is a wanna be.  I think this will be another diss by the Dutch.  I just wonder how many slaps it takes until he has had enough.  He is also money hungry - remember how he was wanting to "sell" his story?  Maybe with the losing of a job, the reward money will look more inticing....

ETA: I would not recommend anybody go out and buy this issue of NE. I summarized pretty much the whole thing.

And there is a very smug pic of Paulus. Nobody wants to see that. 8)

I hope you are right Kimmy.  I really do...but I don't see Deepak talking and still living in Aruba.  Talk about disappearing someone...he would be the first to go if he squeals like a pig.  He can't say anything, because Satish would then be in trouble and if they all had sex with her...then at the least he is guilty of kidnapping and rape.

igsigs wrote:

Returned home with files

OK - I really need glasses.  When I first read this - I thought it said they returned home with FLIES :shock:  :lol:

Thanks, again, igsigs.  

The missing 5/31 statement...wonder if the Dutch noticed?

If the Dutch didn't interview anyone, it just seems like a vacation of sorts....hope the files don't disappear, next, or turn to chocolate.

Has Condi done anything to date?  I hope Art is wrong about the rubber stamp, and the investigation will be set right....

I agree Lala's - I think it all depends on what kind of evidence Deepak and Satish have.  I am of the opinion that they do hold some sort of "key" evidence - if nothing else but to keep themselves alive.   Unless it is some sort of video that shows both of them with Natalee, there is no way to ""Prove" they had sex with her.  Of course, there again, if the Kalpoes don't have some sort of physical/substantial evidence, it would be their word against the VDS's - and we all know how well that would go over.  I swear I think they have something...just a feeling.

Oh I am sure a few flies went along also...flies on the wall to make sure they didn't see anything important.  Like there is anything left to see at this point.  Just chocolate and cleaning fluid with a few donkey bones thrown in for good measure.   :roll:

Did everyone go to sleep?  I will start talking Shango if you guys don't get back in here.  :lol:

Does anyone know when Guido supposedly took flight from Aruba to places unknown or known?  What was the story about him being questioned by the casino owner?  Would that be Posner?

Flies?   A nice parasite would be so much more fitting.

Interesting...

blah writes:

On June 10th it was publicly released to the world-wide media that one of the suspects—either Joran Van Der Sloot, Deepak Kalpoe, or Satish Kalpoe-- had confessed that Natalee was dead, had been buried at a given location

http://www.scaredmonkeys.net/viewtopic.php?t=539

I feel that the confession was supposed to be from one of the security guards not one of the 3 REAL suspects. I believe that was part of the framejob of the guards. I think certian people didnt find out that the frame-up was blown wide open and were just going ahead as planned. Someone in the ALE or wherever heard them announcing the confession and had to get everyone to back track in a hurry because the frame job had to be called off. I believe this all fits into the timeline perfectly also.

HHhhhmmm.

ALE sure did ignore the Natalee-less HI security video.  In fact, ALE knew for at least a few days in advance that the HI tape could not corroborate the HI drop off lie.  Yet they ram-rodded the investigation of the guards and their arrest anyway.

The frame job on Mickey and Abe fell apart for a reason (other than the fact that it is false).

Do you think the HT Family's viewing of the HI security video -- in advance of the polis -- was the key which derailed the frame up?

It looks like different factions within ALE and Prosecutors Office were aware of different facts at different times, and when it came to act on those facts, they were acting out of synch.  

SO, based on above, only some ALE players were aware that HT Family viewed the tape, and were aware of what it meant.  But other ALE players involved were unaware or late, and proceeded with the frameup?  And this helps explain Paulus trying to sell headmaster ISA on "break in tape" -- he was desperately trying to keep the frameup alive and going.

And of course our favorite DJ, Steve Croes shows up in mid-June, to corroborate a lie -- after the need for the lie had expired, and the frame job on Mickey and Abe had crashed and burned.  Croes must have been so far out of the loop, they forgot to tell him?  Or, deepak couldn't get to him in time -- ?

.

Deepak 6/9 statement:
with the front side of my car parked towards the wall of "Carlos & Charlies". We got out and walked towards "Carlos & Charlies". At that time it was approximately 00:30 hours. We walked straight to the bar. Joran had bought us something to drink. He hadn't asked us what we wanted, because he already knew what we liked to drink. He had bought three "YARDS" with whisky coke.

Satish 5/31 witness statement:
Around 11.45 we stepped into the bldg.. I saw that there was 60 or 70 persons in the bldg.. All three of us walked to the bar and my brother Deepak bought a whisky coke for me and also a drink for himself. Joran also bought an alcoholic drink for himself.

Who bought the "yards" ? Joran or Deepak?

YES, exactly !!

I agree completely.  I will refrain from showing anyone how this ties in with Shango/Simian at this time... :wink:  You monkeys know I can.

Lala's Mom says--

-- I agree completely. I will refrain from showing anyone how this ties in with Shango/Simian at this time

Please don't refrain...bring your thoughts on above.

Thanks.

.

Lala's, I would love to hear what you have to say.

Blah, your post is very interesting!

Morning monkeys!

53 users online.

Inquiring minds want to know.  :wink:

Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 3:17 pm P 1178
Steve Croes is singing.
Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 2:58 pm
The music man’s song was not on the bill.
Simian Says: June 25th, 2005 at 7:28 pm
The father is trapped in a legal check mate.
Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:10 pm
The last hope rests on the shoulders of the cowboys. Ten days, two down, eight to go.
The elder knows the passages in the palace too well. The Babylonians are afraid they might not be able to stop him.
Don’t shake the wire, ‘cause the bird will fly away.

Croes was out of the loop, by this time...but PVDS was working his magic also.  He almost got caught too...until a good friend stepped in to help him.

Hey Memphis, Hammer and I are dancing.  :wink:

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:10 pm
Simian, older PVDS had one or two cards up his sleeve. They have been played, and lost. Will one of the cards sing?

Could this have been the SG?  Probably not, I tend to think it is more like a trump card to keep others quiet, but we are talking riddles here.

I noticed this too Lala's a while back.  One of these brothers don't have the story straight.  Seems as though Satish is trying to distance himself from Joran by saying Deepak bought them a drink.  He knows Joran is the one who drugged Natalee.  One way of saying hey I bought my own drink I don't know what Joran was drinking.

San
One other thing to consider is this...Satish did not have time to get his story in line with all the others so early on.  They were nervous, confused and upset over what was happening.  Both he and Deepak had been questioned about a missing girl and they both knew more than they wanted to know.  When you are under pressure, you tend to reveal more truth that you want at the beginning.  It takes time to calm down and think things through.  That is why PVDS kept talking to these guys, he knew that they were scared and needed to be coerced into thinking the "right" way for all concerned. That is also why he hired attorneys for them...he knew he needed some control over them...now the question is why?

Because they can bury Joran and Paulus.

I agree with hammer - Lala's.  perhaps your views will clear up another area as well.  I sooo agree with Blah.  

This also explains why they hate the Holloway/Twittys so bad.  They use the reference of the family "pushing" them to act.  I bet they are referring to just this!

I agree with hammer - Lala's.  perhaps your views will clear up another area as well.  I sooo agree with Blah.  

This also explains why they hate the Holloway/Twittys so bad.  They use the reference of the family "pushing" them to act.  I bet they are referring to just this!

Natalee Holloway's mother speaks at Samford
11/14/2006, 8:04 a.m. ET
The Associated Press  

BIRMINGHAM, Ala. (AP) — The mother of missing Alabama teenager Natalee Holloway is carrying on with her mission to tell young people about the dangers of international travel.

Beth Holloway Twitty spoke to about 600 Samford University students in suburban Birmingham last night.

Twitty says students have to be proactive when leaving the United States. They should carry emergency contact numbers and become familiar with the laws of the country they plan to visit.

As for her daughter, Twitty says there's nothing new in the disappearance of the 18-year-old from Mountain Brook.

Natalee Holloway was last seen on May 30, 2005, during a senior class trip to Aruba. Authorities never found any trace of her, and no one has been prosecuted.

Twitty has since founded the nonprofit International Safe Travels Foundation to teach young people about safe travel.
=========================================

THE BIRMINGHAM NEWS

Twitty says tragedy led to mission

Tuesday, November 14, 2006
BRANNON STEWART
News staff writer
 
In front of more than 600 Samford University students Monday night, Beth Holloway Twitty shared intimate details of the nightmare that has evolved into her life's mission.

"I never imagined that I would be traveling around telling people of how Natalee was kidnapped, raped and most likely murdered on the last night of her senior trip," Twitty told the students inside Reid Chapel after a video tribute to her missing daughter.

Natalee Holloway was last seen on May 30, 2005, during a senior class trip to Aruba after graduation from Mountain Brook High School.

In a press conference before her speech, Twitty said there are not any new developments in the case.

"(Aruban officials) still say they're doing searches, but we just don't have any communication from them," Twitty said. "It's so frustrating."

In the year and a half since her daughter has been missing, Twitty has founded the nonprofit International Safe Travels Foundation to educate the public about travel safety. She spoke to students at Samford about her spiritual journey since her daughter's abduction, but she also stressed the importance of properly preparing for safe international travel.

"I'm not saying in any way that you shouldn't travel outside this country," Twitty said. "But you need to remember you do leave behind the privileges and rights that we're accustomed to here in the U.S. and that we take for granted."

Twitty said students should be proactive when traveling overseas, such as carrying emergency contact numbers of the U.S. government and becoming familiar with the laws of the countries they plan to visit.

E-mail: bstewart@bhamnews.com

I will issue a challenge to anyone that thinks they are up for it...

PROVE to me that Simian was not privy to some inside info concerning the goings on about Natalee.
PROVE to me that Simian was just making this stuff up.
PROVE to me that Shango was not on the opposite side of Simian in the thinking here.  They rarely agreed on anything.
PROVE to me that neither Shango or Simian never posted again after they left the FP.
PROVE to me that Shango/Simian is a bunch of crap and that there is absolutely no credibility in anything they posted.
PROVE to me that Simian is not AG.  


Okay, there it is...someone, take up the challenge...I look forward to seeing it.  I have been waiting for someone to help me out on this, so now I will throw down the gauntlet....any takers?  I am a big girl. I won't take my toys and go home.  I promise.  We need some new ideas to move this case along.  If not, it is going to wither into nothingness with no relief for the family or Natalee's dear soul.

From Joran's June 14th Statement:

At approximately 12.30 my dad and me had arrived at Bubali police station. I was interviewed as a witness. I cannot remember that in my statement I had said that I had been at Fisherman's Huts with Natalee. I might be possible that I stated that. During the interview I called Deepak on his mobile. I had asked him what clothes Natalee had been wearing that night. He told me that Natalee was wearing a blue skirt and a blue top.

Why at this time was there a "focus" on the Fishermans huts?  It seems that the interviewer asked JOran about it.  He would not have brought that up out of thin air.  I think this is an odd thing.

Something else that struck me as VERY odd - Joran says that during the interview, he called Deepak to see what Natalee was wearing, and according to Joran, Deepak was able to spout that information right off.  Well, in the first place, during interviews, I have never heard of someone being able to call someone else to ask a question.  How weird is that?  It also looks like Joran is trying his darnedest to subtlely throw suspicion at Deepak.  He does this alot -  

Just a few thoughts.

It's a balancing act between the Sloots and the Kalpoes.  So far they have remained at a standoff.  It will only take one thing...just one small tiny tidbit of something to tip the scales...wonder who can do that? Is there nobody on Aruba with the courage to do this?

I posted something similar a while back.  Why would FH's be mentioned in his 'witness' statement 5/31, when at that time the HI story was in place?  Maybe that is why his witness statement was changed by Paulus and is now amongst the missing statements..... I'd have to go back and reread the rest of your observation to comment.

Time for me to leave for a while...I won't be gone long.  No takers yet, I see. Oh well, I will be back later maybe by then.  8)

 :lol: Flies, fleas, bedbugs and ticks no doubt. :lol:

Thanks for summing it up. Hopefully, Condi will do so.

Exactly. What else could it be?

PROVE to me that Simian is not AG.  

I believe AG was the doppleganger, not THE Simian.

Hey, Memphis!  Someone told me (and I'll just say it's someone YOU told :D ) that you thought my head was empty under my tiara. :shock:  So, I just wanted you to know that I graduated college summa cum laude!!  Do you know what that means?  It means I'm very smart. :shock:  :shock:  :lol:  :lol:  (Well, ya'll know I never let such things pass. :lol: )

I have the same feeling Kimmy53.  But do they actually have something or does Joran just think that they do?  His shoes maybe with incriminating DNA on them or something of a photographic nature?

I don't know for a fact if they do or not but based on the actions of the Sloots, they sure seem to at least think they have something.  And I really hope they do and that it is very solid.  And very incriminating as well.  

.

you mean more on the lines of being a smartass than being smart?

You can be booksmart and still be dumb as a rock and not know anything about what your degree is about. Not to mention no common sense. If you had you wouldn't be in a constant state of PMS and trying to outstage everyone with your, "I have this, I have that, you don't, I'm better than you" attitude. Who gives a rats ass what you have or don't have. I have a degree also but you never see me going around pushing it in anyones face. It leaves a bad taste in others mouth when you come off like that.

I suggest you learn how to socialize better and use netiquette.

Honestly, some people try to make themselves out to be bigger or better than they really are. lol

:lol:  :lol:

MsDarthVada I see you lurking.  Good to see you around again.   :D

God bless~

Hey, Ya'll:  to clarify:  Anyone who gets an answer from me gets it because they deserve it, especially when jealousy amuses me so much; it's a petty trait I have! :lol:  :lol:

Ya'll have a good day; I have a tennis match in less thatn half an hour! :D

dkpen....Bravo

Also, I do not believe AG was Simian. I agree she could have been a doppleganger. I believe she had a friendship/kinship with the real Simian.

.
I tend to still think the shoe size ruse was to be able to say any shoes found especially with incriminating DNA belonged to a Kalpoe and not Joran who was then claiming he wore a much larger size than he did in fact.  Verified by Dutch interrogators as the smaller of the sizes.

Joran was not sure if the Kalpoes some how had his shoes or not.  I think he either lost them or they had to be disposed of and this was how he wanted to account for the shoes.  If they ever surfaced again and were the 10.5, well, that meant they belonged to one of the Kalpoes since he claimed to wear the larger size.  Very large for his age even at that height, in my opinion.

But it could be something else entirely, we just don't know.  Based on their actions, they do hold something and perhaps that if it really exists could be of tremendous help in actually proving something.  I wish they would contact deVries if they do have this whatever.

.

jealousy?  lol  not hardly!  I wouldn't be jealous of someone who thinks they are better than others. To me this tells me one thing....

They are full of BS and a liar OR they have to constantly boost themselves to fell better about themselves because in the real world they are lacking self esteem. They need and desire all the attention on themselves because they lack it in their real pathetic life.

Go away little girl, come back when you grow up and realize the world doesn't revolve around you.

<waits for another snide reply to confirm what I posted>  :wink:

For the record I had no opinion regarding if AG were Simian when I made my posts last night......but glad to see some healthy debate ongoing today.

dkpen - high-five sistah  :lol:

.
dkpen,
I thought your first post was directed at me.   :shock:   I didn't see the one right before mine.  Was rather startled.   :D

.

speaking of degrees

i graduated from 5th grade



 8)  8)  8)  8)

 :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

no no Anna, it wasn't directed at you.

I apologize if I offended anyone but something needed to be said.

blah writes:

On June 10th it was publicly released to the world-wide media that one of the suspects—either Joran Van Der Sloot, Deepak Kalpoe, or Satish Kalpoe-- had confessed that Natalee was dead, had been buried at a given location

http://www.scaredmonkeys.net/viewtopic.php?t=539

I feel that the confession was supposed to be from one of the security guards not one of the 3 REAL suspects. I believe that was part of the framejob of the guards. I think certain people didn't find out that the frame-up was blown wide open and were just going ahead as planned. Someone in the ALE or wherever heard them announcing the confession and had to get everyone to back track in a hurry because the frame job had to be called off. I believe this all fits into the timeline perfectly also.

Yep, and even after Beth arrived, Paulus thought he could rescue the frame up by saying there was the break in the tape.  He didn't dream Beth would stay up and look at it that same morning.

Sort of got her off on the wrong foot sotospeak with some folks.   :roll:

But this is far from the perfect crime or even the perfect cover up for there are plenty of rough edges when it is closely examined.  And this is why I cannot understand why there is the claim of no evidence.  At the least there is the glaring cover up attempt.  

I also wonder what would have happened to the SG's if Beth had not looked at the tape immediately and contacted those in the lobby all night, etc.  They could have said no tape but there were still some kids in the lobby area that would have known there was no drop off of Natalee.

They weren't as clever as they thought so why are so many pretending they don't see this clumsy work?  

.

I was just getting ready to sell some popcorn

I agree Anna.  The shoes are mentioned too much to just be a casual comment on them.  It is very possible that the Kalpoes have one or both.  I feel they have something.  I wonder if the reason they haven't "outed" Joran is because it also incriminates them?  I mean - who thinks that Paulus would retain and pay for  a lawyer for them out of the goodness of his heart?

I can't speak for everyone but you did not offend me.

No offense taken by anyone I am sure!  

BRAVO to you!!!!!!

For someone that is supposedly "smart" and grad with cum lada can't even spell. lol

Let me do that again, it looked like darleen quoted herself. lol

it's a petty trait I have!

Why yes you are petty. Maybe try to learn a new trait, one that doesn't make you look like a fool?

thatn

For someone that is supposedly "smart" and grad with cum lada can't even spell. lol

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a360/AnnaBlueSkies/2mper88_th.jpg)

I am sure the SG's would be in lock up by now.  ALE would have used  "Cause we said so" and it would have been over.   I agree with you - this is NOT the perfect crime.  I think alot can be said for "Luck" in their case - that along with inexperience of the ALE - It seems that all the cards fell on their side and they have been lucky since. I feel there is alot out there.  Just gotta have the right people to look at it and realize what we have known all along.

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a360/AnnaBlueSkies/thshoppigcart201546.jpg)

 :D

Hey Ips!!!  thanks for saving me the time and money

hi monkeys..... :lol:

DARLEEN!!!!  I have missed you!!!  My tiarra got lost when Klass put in u know where... :shock:   and i saw you are knowledgable in cleaning real pearls and such......any clues on what to do to properly cleanse and restore luster to anal beads???  I am reallllly  :shock: stuck here...LOL
 :D

 8)  :D  :D  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

oh man, I REALLY need to get that popcorn stand up and running

FOM, here's even a sort of smug looking icon that could be Paulus looking smug but wondering what happened to all his hair.

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a360/AnnaBlueSkies/Icons%20and%20Smilies/thReminderOfLostHair.gif)

And you know I just happen to have

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a360/AnnaBlueSkies/Icons%20and%20Smilies/h010.gif)

TY Blah and Anna.....i could go for some popcorn...... :lol:

Darleens gonna reem me later....lol...good thing i like spanklins!
Hope she can take a joke :shock:

GOT IT.   SORRY :oops:

Ahem.

The Murder & Crime thread has topped 4,000 views.  :shock:

Let's just move Darleen out.

Msmarple - there is ALOT of interest in that thread.  It was said DeVries has read here.  I hope he has read this thread at the very least.

That Rainman was a pretty smart feller too. :shock:

^ meant for DAR

I second that motion!   :D

Here is another murder to add:
http://www.cspnv.com/archivo/pdf/Nov/14/A-14-11-06.pdf
Page 3-Look for the phrase " curpa sin bida" translated means "body without life".  The vistim's name was Igmar Camallo.

I'm sure DeVries will look over a lot of info from all you Super Monkeys hard work.

All those files packed up and sent to Holland....I'm sure without a doubt ALE removed certain statements from the files so not to be seen or could prove discrepancies.

Thanks to SAN for scanning and sending the NE article to me.  You can read it at the link below.  Nothing about the pictures of the aru-bay videos in this article.  I hear that the next NE, that will come out this Thursday will have the picture.  Sorry for not simply posting the NE, it's just way too large to post.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/klaasend/NE112006.gif

Thank you Klaas for posting the link. I refuse to pay for NE but will read something if there are facts supplied.

And speaking of the picture of the bag....

E-mail from Blonde about the picture....

Blonde wrote:
Tuesday, November 14, 2006 8:58 AM
I was called by Art woods after he saw my pictures at the meeting  for the first time.
He asked me to send the picture to a few people.
I did not know it was the NE

I called Beth and Dave and  they told me to do it to keep Natalee's
name alive. So this is why NE will be posting it.
Blonde

So I am assuming this is a fairly recent article... Is the family reaching out to the State Department again? Do we know this for FACT
If so do we need to state another letter writing campain to help put the pressure on our State Department?

Does this mean someone besides you and I read it?  LOL.

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a360/AnnaBlueSkies/Icons%20and%20Smilies/thhighfive_1.gif)

oo ooo Klaas?
May I please respond to that email since it was directed at me?
Please? Pretty please?  :wink:

I've been sending Boycott Aruba packages out to all the US Governors in hopes they will reconcider the situation with Aruba and Natalees investigation. The package includes Personal Letter, While You Were Sleeping...GHB booklet, Car Magnetic Bumper Sticker, Boycott Aruba Fliers and the Postage Envelope Label Stickers.

Here is the Letter for those interested in reading.....

Dear Governor,                                                                    

We are members of the Aruba Boycott Grassroots movement. If you care to read our web site and adjudge its seriousness, it is located at….
htttp://arubanboycott.blogspot.com .

Please Support Boycott Aruba:

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b341/dkpen/flier2.png

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b341/dkpen/Racism222.png

Please visit the link provided below and read entire script. It may save your life, the life of a constituent or a family member one day.
http://www.projectghb.org/while_sleeping/

Why are we boycotting? We are boycotting Aruba because of their lackadaisical attitude towards solving the Natalee Holloway case. The Aruban Government is guilty of a lack of a proper investigation by ignoring key facts, destroying or "losing" evidence, witnesses recanting statements out of fear of threats by Aruban police and officials, the blatant cover-ups and conspiracies, and the hatred towards Beth Twitty and the Holloway family.

Here are a few questions for you to ponder. Where is the investigation at this point? Why hasn't any information or updates been provided to the family of Natalee Holloway and to the American people that patronize the island of Aruba and comprise over 70% of their tourism? Why haven't the suspects been re-questioned?
All the family wants are answers and to bring Natalee home.

Natalee Holloway was a high school student and a vibrant, good-hearted young women of more than average or reasonable moral character, graduating with honors with a full ride scholarship as a medical student to the University of Alabama.

We might forgive a certain incompetence, or, God forbid, maybe even some corruption as regards to this still on going investigation. Aruba likely would endure the damage to its reputation should it come to be that America and some others in the world conclude that Aruba's system of policing needs some attention and possibly refinement, if not outright improvement.

In terms of legal issues, and public perception, if there is anything American's detest more than seeing the guilty go free, it is seeing the innocent dragged down into the mud. In this case, the mud of a rock and sand island we really could manage to do fine without.

1996 President Bill Clinton and CIA announced and warned Aruba to be one of the main spots for drug and human trafficking. Sound safe to you?

I hope you consider joining in with the Boycott Aruba movement or a personal boycott to not travel to Aruba as a vacation destination.

God bless you and yours

You were thinking of Joran and Paulus.   :lol:

LOL memphis...I did the damage controll for you I think.  :wink:

I can't tell if it is saying morto natural or no morto natural.

Any help on this?  Someone who speaks Spanish want to give it a try??

/

Leslie,
Can you tell what happened to the man on the cover?  The one in the hospital bed with the bloody bandage???   :shock:

I have already recieved that package and mailed my letters, I got my magnet and all my goodies... But my question was whether dave and beth were reaching out again to our state department and if we needed to take fire again against our state department to put the pressure on holland to get here heads out of there backsides

Email me if you like, smklaasend@hotmail.com

I will say that your post did not mention a person's name.  I'm not worried about your post.  It's Darleens posts and reactions to her posts that I may move to the Monkey Lounge.  Seems the best place for Darleen's posts and comments to her posts since they have nothing to do with this case.

Just jumping in here....

IMO...How ODD that Michael Posner would show up
at the Excelsior Casino on Tues/Wed.
& ask for a meeting of the staff?????

He said he was "out of town" until that morning..... :?

Coincidence?

It would appear so Sue. I'm sure Beth and Dave would appreciate all the help they can get at this point. Letters and all.

hmmmm Seems Posner was doing some damage controll, if you will.

I'm not Memphis, but I have long thought that you were a boorish braggadocio...so NOT high class Alabama. And you are rude to boot.

Anna: "cu dokter no kier a constata morto natural" translates to
"cu doctor does not owing to constata dead natural" so ...I don't know. I thought they were saying that it was a suspicious death and the doctor did not think it was a natural.  All I have to use is the handy dandy online Pap translator.

I am thinking that in this point in time, the main focus of their lives must surely now be survival.  They are in a very bad position.

Isn't that special ?  :roll:

Obviously not.  Those who do don't know enough.  Those who know don't have the courage.  There's no oversight, no protection in Aruba.  If the Slooties and their pals want to squish you, they will squish you.  And everyone will smile for the tourists while they're doing it.  In the US, you could go to other LE agencies, higher up the political ladder, the media and civic groups.  In Aruba you got nuttin'.  No one to help you fight, no one to back you up.

I'll drop it.  
dkpen just about covered it all.  :wink:

Anna: I concur and understand what you are saying here, but I think it's important to also keep in mind that it doesn't make sense that a guy as tall and as big - boned as Joranus Maximus, wears  a small - sized shoe.  That does not compute. However, a smaller-sized shoe could just as easily have belonged to any of the other usual suspects, and for some reason, my mind now wonders about what size would Joranus' male parent wear ???? :roll:

His casino IS implicated in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway since Joran was the last person to be seen with her and he was there gambling, underage, when he met her.  Any good business man would want to get to the bottom of it.  A dirty businessman would be particularly interested in getting the facts to protect his interests.  If this casino is being used to launder money (probably), they have a vested interest in keeping the tourists and money coming in.  You can't hide the dirty money without the clean stuff.

 :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  I LOVED 5th grade.

I think Beth literally saved the security guards.....(so much for so-called Alabama racism --- false claims that the conniving culprits on Aruba betted upon---how ignorant & out of date they are on Aruba)...I remember when Beth went on TV in the States and stated that after she, herself, talked with the security guards in KIA, that she knew that they were NOT guilty....They were released shortly thereafter.

I agree with this.  Unfortunately, I also think that if the SG's were not "saved", Beth might have gotten Natalee's body returned to her prior to June 10th  :cry:

I have a 6'3" or 4" son who wears a size 11 shoe, so I remain unconvinced Joran's feet are that large.  Feet are among the things that continue to grow our whole lives like ears and noses.  If he wears a 14 at age 17 by the time he is 60 he will be in a size 20 which I doubt.

Yes, I have considered Paulus as the one with the missing shoes but the Dutch interrogator did check the shoe size according to the Diario article and it iwas 10.5 in the jail so in any event I guess it is safe to say Joran messed with the sizes for some reason or other, we just don't know what the reason was.  If they are ever found, it may well be clear at that time but I do think it is some sort of attempt to frame Kalpoes.  To disown the shoes.

But then given Joran's ego, it may be he just got a kick out of telling the shoe story while wearing the actual shoes in question and showing them to us on Greta because he was lying about something even then.  Maybe on second thought the shoes are Joran's idea of a red herring.

. :?

I wouldn't worry about it... :lol:

Klaasend: You Got Mail!

I think you're right.
One day, she will be rewarded greatly for what she did.

Off to finish my work. . . . .

Just responded.  Sorry, takes me a while to catch up on everything when I'm gone for a few hours, lol  :wink:

I'll be back tonight.

Remember, anyone who has been holding secrets, tonights the night to let them go and breath easier.  :D

Same as last night. Come one, come all and spill it all. This has gone on too long. Put everything on the table, er board, and let's get some resolution.  :D

 :shock: That is fantastic....way to go! Let's hope the word gets out about this creepy faux-Carribean island who thumbs their collective noses at Americans in general, and law & order in particular...to hell with it...go to Bermuda.

Posted at FOB:
Caribbean Real Estate Opportunity Fund Acquires Aruba Marriott for $237M
November 14, 2006
By Eugene Gilligan, Senior Editor

Caribbean Real Estate Opportunity Fund acquired the ownership entity holding the
leasehold on the 413-room Aruba Marriott Resort & Stellaris Casino on Aruba for $237
million, in a sale that closed today, in what the advisor on the sale called one of the largest deals in Caribbean lodging history. Marriott will continue to manage the property (pictured) under a long-term management agreement with the new owners.

The resort features 20 suites with direct ocean views, a 17,000-square-foot casino, and 11,000 square feet of meeting and banquet space.

The new owners plan a renovation and repositioning of the property, said Mark Gordon, managing director and principal of Sonnenblick-Goldman, which advised Plant Hotel NV, the seller, on the transaction.

Lenders are looking more favorably at hotel properties in the Caribbean as they seek new geographic areas to lend in, Gordon said. As a result, investment in Caribbean lodging properties has strengthened recently, according to Gordon.

"These are oceanfront properties that are irreplaceable," Gordon told CPN. Aruba, which attracted 732,400 visitors in 2005, is looked on even more favorably than other Caribbean locations, Gordon said, as it is south of the "hurricane belt."

NIBC Bank NV, of the Netherlands, acted as financial advisor to Plant Hotel NV.

CPG is the managing partner in Caribbean Real Estate Opportunity Fund I, a $500m real
estate fund co-sponsored by Goldman Sachs and Perry Capital, the focus of which is to
invest in income producing real estate assets in the Caribbean and Central America

http://www.hotelschool.cornell.edu/ihe/about/board/blatt.html
Noteworthy recent matters include the representation of Caribbean Property Group, LLC in
connection with the organization of Caribbean Real Estate Opportunity Fund 2005, L.P., a
$470 million private real estate fund organized by Caribbean Property Group, Goldman
Sachs and Perry Real Estate Partners to acquire real estate assets in the Caribbean and
Central America. The Structured Real Estate Investments group, together with CooleyÆs
Real Estate group, continues to represent the fund in its acquisition of
assets

Follow-up post by MF:
Posted: Tue Nov 14th, 2006 03:04 pm
 
The Aruban government announced long time ago they will be selling all their shares in the hotels that they have and just focus in handling the country and not having to do directly with hotel operations.

The Marriot's buildings were property of the government and if I am not mistaken there are other hotels too that are property of the Aruban government that they are planning to sell and put in private hands.

The La Cabana Villas (Suites and the Casino) was also sold recently with, if I am not mistaken, a Las Vegas group that operates casinos all around the world. This consists over 400 rooms and does not include the other 400 room property that La Cabana has on the beach. They recently announced a $20 Million upgrade plan for these rooms.

Hey, Ya'll!  I thought I'd stop back in and apologize to ya'll; I'm ashamed of my pettiness today. :cry: Memphis, I shouldn't even have mentioned that anyone even told me about that; it really didn't hurt me, and didn't even matter.  And, FOM, Ono's right:  don't worry about it.   :)   And, Jacqueline is right most of all, Darleen should go.  Oh, and I'll bet Robots graduated fifth grade summa cum laude!!!! :lol:   Best of luck to everyone in your work on behalf of Natalee's family; one thing you can know with certainty is that you're at the very least providing emotional support for them--and that can only help.

One thing we can say with certainty is that you provided un gatz.

NEW FRONT PAGE POST:

Seems That Aruba is Asking For Advice … Too bad they Don’t Want to Listen to the Truth

http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/2006/11/14/seems-that-aruba-is-asking-for-advice-too-bad-they-dont-want-to-listen-to-the-truth/

Aruba’s tourism is continually down as compared to other competing islands. The rest of the Caribbean is up double digits in pretty much every case.

“The facts are clear: we are down, way down,compared to other competing islands.” AHATA

La Cabana Villas owned by:

Louis Mansur &
Arends-Mansur

Dear Klass: You are much kinder & smarter than I, (as well as so many of our faithful here), but, Klass, PLEASE explain to me this reasoning....?? I still cannot fathom this....WHY would Natalee's remains have been returned to her family sooner if the security guards had been left to take the blame?

I'm not Klaas but I do agree with her on this point.  The SG's were the fall guys.  If they had taken the fall Natalee would have been returned to her family for a proper burial and J2K would have gone on with their lives as if they had just dropped Natalee off in front of her hotel.  When Beth pushed the issue and viewed the HI tapes is when the cover up began.  If the SG's could not be to blame it would immediately go back to J2K since they were the last seen with her and who I believe are the guilty parties.  They could not give Natalee back to her family because of the evidence that may have been collected to prove this.

Did I make sense??

Hello My Darling Monkeys!

Nice to see you all!

If they pinned the crime on the 2 guards and the charges stuck...the boys would be off the hook.

As long as the suspicion was on the three....they had to stick to no body, no crime.

Tha't s the way i see it.

No Monkey love for the Mermaid????????????? ::sob::weep::

Hi FM!
Whats cooking?  Go check out my new puppies, they are pretty cool...

Still no resolution on this case but we are all still here lurking, posting, and praying...

You know...It's very possible that maybe those Kalpoe brothers don't  really know that they could contact the United States F.B.I......maybe and perhaps, the attorney for the Kalpoes have kept the Kalpoes "in the dark" ????????????????????????????????

Hi FM - I had stepped away for a moment.  How are you tonight??  Good to see you.  Lot's to read in the previous thread if you are so inclined.  We were pretty busy with different ideas last night.

Your puppies are amazing!

 :D  :D  :D

Ono - Hubbylove answered your question just how I would have.  The security guards were the "fall guys", once that fell apart the coverup of everything else began.

That is so sad...i feel the same ...at some point there was no way to get her back though.

I feel honored Klaas!  I know you and I agree on that point and I'm glad I would able to spell it out... F A L L   G U Y S, period the end

I did read some of the previous threads - I am inclined to agree that Nat's body was hidden prolly for the very reason that you all just indicated and that her body will never be returned!

I was just messin with ya ......haven't sseen u in a while.


I AM SO GLAD THE CRIME THREAD IS GETTING SO MUCH ATTENTION

HI TO MR AND MRS RED

 :arrow: And coincidences??  i stopped believing in those along time ago

Thanks FM, I think I am the proudest puppy momma in the world!  They are our adorable babies!
I'm making cheese tortillini with mini meatballs in marinara and a nice green salad and garlic toast for dinner.  I always think of you when I make the super yummy dinners!

I am sending u a hug.... :lol:

Last night we posted some Lorenzo photos and had some pretty good discussions.  Just wanted to let you know in case you missed that part.  It would be the last 15-20 pages of LCD 542.

Back at ya girlfriend!

:arrow: And an interseting post from aruba girl on june 16th..imo

Must be the Menopause but I just have not had my zest for cooking in the last few months.  I can make a hell of a window valance though and my silk grenery arrangements are the envy of the neighborhood.  

I guess we all go through cycles! :lol:

please don't be a stranger......i wish i couold play longer....see u monkeys later

Prayers for Natalee and her family

This one?  I made it a little smaller so it won't blow the margins as much, lol  :lol:

(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/klaasend/aglorenzorumor-1.gif)

Hey Klaas,

With all the pictures accumilated from this case of all the suspects arrested, think we could compare pictures with those wearing shoes and see the difference in shoe sizes?  

I think Satish and GVC have bigger feet. JMO

that and men..lol :roll:   (btw  i got " him"  realllly good FM)

Not sure I'm following you.  You think Satish and GVC have bigger feet than Joran?  It will be very hard to determine size of foot looking at photos.

Ono:  That is probably why Paul took control of the Kalpoes legal affairs under the guise of "helping" them, but most likely was keeping them in line so that they would continue to be the VDS puppets.  
Deepak must be close to the breaking point now, with his work permit revoked.   It is time for someone to approach Deepak with a offer.  Desperate men do desperate things.

from aruba.com article dated September 2005

As AHATA’s president De Veer was also empowered to bring La Cabana All Suite Beach Resort back into the fold. At the time, some timeshare resorts seceded from the organization because of internal conflict and their absence was felt. Thanks to de Veer’s special brand of diplomacy, La Cabana rejoined and AHATA was again, united, representing all of Aruba’s hotels.

Any idea why La Cabana was not part of AHATA until Sept. 2005??

Evening Monkeys!

I still find it hard to believe that Deepak isn't working at the Cyberzone.  I know I've read posts by Refugees that have fairly recently gone to Aruba and met Deepak at the Cyberzone.  Afterall, his stepfather owns the place.

However, have we not been told that Joran is 6'5" ? That is big leap from 6'3"....

comparing them side by side to see who has the bigger shoe. Just thinking out of the box.

Joran claimed to have lost a size 14 shoe. Who in his circle or of the suspects arrested has the bigger shoe/foot. Could it be who lost the size 14 shoe?  Or was it just an outright lie by Joran. Just a thought.

I hope so....Deepak and Satish telling the truth could really bring the whole cover up down.  But they are afraid.  The people involved have a nice philosophy.."NO BODY NO CRIME" :shock:

IMO, the only one that could possibly wear a 14 would be Joran. The others aren't nearly as tall as Joran and less likely to have a foot size above 10-11.

The Kalpoes are guilty by association even if they had nothing to do with Natalee's disappearance.

If they didn't know anything about it prior the pool meeting they did afterwards which makes them an accomplis and guilty after the fact.

Remember in the first few days after Nat disappeared the info we had was that it was a size 14 K Swiss.

I think one of the things that is happening is that we believe the media and not the original facts from the beginning.

Not neccessary.  I know a few skinny guys who are of average height and have really big feet.  Heck, my daughter is only 5'7" and wears a size 10.5 womens shoe.  :shock:

Darleen: Go suck an egg.

Aruba was willing to let the world know what happened to Natalee as long as SG's got the blame.  Once they could not do that they would never show the world what they did to Natalee and how she died because the white Dutch guy did it.  It would have been murder and in my opinion a brutal one.  Aruba would have allowed us to see her injuries as long as they were blaming the two black guards.  It would not have been an accidental OD like they claimed.   Even if they found Joran and the Kalpoe’s DNA on Natalee they would have said it was consensual which I believe they said the first week when one of the suspects said we all had sex with Natalee.  That was to explain to the media why their DNA was found.  It was a setup.  If they would have known their plan would not have worked they would have never made the consensual sex comment.  They were ripping apart Natalee’s reputation that first night.

After all this time it is Natalee’s untouchable reputation and a mother’s determination that showed the world how evil Aruba really is.

Tourism is down and I hope they continue to suffer the consequences for their actions.

If a tsunami was to hit that island I would not send one cent to support them.

night all!

Great post San, you said it even better than I... and I agree wholeheartedly with your last point...  Arubans are the only ones who can solve this case and because of that I just don't see it happening.

Night hun

Bye FM! Enjoy your evening!

Actually, no. Sorry, do not compute.

You know, I really would like someone to present pictures of what Lorenzo's basement looks like. Any and all doors, where they lead too ect. Would be most interesting to see what is down there too.

I agree dkpen. IMO there may be something to this basement. Why even mention it at all ... I know it is rare in Aruba aparently, but still, that makes it significant IMO.

I can see someone of wealth with security gates around their compound but to have barb wire, security guards armed ect just sounds more like a drug lords paradise then a wealthy home honor protecting their family.

Yep, Lorenzo has something to hide. It wouldn't be so hush hush if he was a law abiding person. Hell, even the richest of movie stars don't have their homes surrounded like alcatraz.

It would be easy to disappear Deepak for the Paulus group and then they could blame everything on him and Satish and it would just be the VDS' word against VDS and does anyone think they are going to believe Deepak when they have the groom of the see-through blouse in their corner.

It's where he keeps all his equipment for his drugs (scales, guns, pouches, packaging, tape, etc.).  I think I'm watching too much TV :shock: .

Hey Monkeys, how are things in the cage tonight? Any active chatter?

Of course, he traded cars right after Natalee's disappearance and just prior to his exodus to the neverlands.

LOL   :D

LOL! :lol:

But seriously, do you think Lorenzo is into just drugs, or porn too?

That or Posner and his good fellas told him to get out of town or else.

I would say drugs.

Here is a link to a article written which mentions Natalee and a possible porn connection.

http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/334611p-285884c.html

Ditto  :wink:

Ya know Klaas I have tried to check out the pics in that Batter Diary....have wondered if maybe we weren't catching glimpses of Lorenzo's basement.

Yep people who run have something to hide.  Oh I forgot he was hiding the fact that he was gay and according to his lawyer if you are gay you could have not been involved in a murder.  If my eyes rolled any further back in my head I would fall off the chair.

It has been suggested that Lorenzo has a private road that leads to his house.........................................

Thanks Bleachedblack - I remember when that came out.

What's the Batter Diary?

??  Batter diary?  You mean Brian's diary?

I see that is what you are referring to.  I'll take a quick look through at the photos again.  Here is the link for those that don't have it:

http://ikeepadiary.com/diary/2004/01_22_aruba_vacation/part_5/frame_index.html

I argee 100%... They are are the FALL GUYS

This is a link to his diary.........http://www.ikeepadiary.com/diary/2004/01_22_aruba_vacation/part_1/frame_index.html

http://www.ikeepadiary.com/diary/2004/01_22_aruba_vacation/part_1/frame_index.html

Conde' Nast Traveler magazine just published their Readers Choice Awards know as Best in the World!   :shock:  :shock:

GUESS WHO DID NOT MAKE IT IN THE CARIBBEAN ISLANDS CATAGORY?

HOW DID YOU KNOW??? POOR ARUBA DID NOT MAKE IT!!! :P  :P  :P

IN THE  CARIBBEAN HOTEL CATAGORY THE ARUBA MARRIOTT CAME IN 25TH! :o  :o

My agencies have not booked Aruba since the early days of Natalee missing!  No one even asks about Aruba anymore when in the past it was in our top 10 in bookings!! :o  :o

WOW BOC that is going to have a few people taking their mylanta and nexium tonight!

BOC I saw a post over at FOB today making a big deal about JetBlue starting to have 2 flights a day from JFK to aruba for a short time ...I think it was like 12/06-1/07 for $129. It was stated that the demand was so high for flights, that was why 2 per day. NOT. they already have 2 flights per day from JFK, but the price is higher. My guess is they are having lots of vacancies and so, despite it being high season.......are having a sale to fill them.

I suspect that you are right BBlack, they are dropping prices to nothing... in order to get people to go...

Hey BOC Aruba does have beautiful beaches, and they haven't changed much since they used to rate in the top 10. Can only attribute the decline to the astute consumers who realize there is more to beauty than meets the eye.

Good evening Mrs. Red

Of course, you always make sense. However, I respectfully disagree with your mental premise which seems to take for granted what Beth & family would have dis-regarded had Natalee's body had been returned to Beth almost immediately......Do you not realize that Beth and Natalee's family would have left NO STONE UNTURNED until the truth regarding her kidnapping and demise had been ascertained and documented by American forensthic experts ----regardless what the Arubans would have reported, officially, and un-officially? I also do daresay that Natalee's family are very well-educated and are also not prone to accepting what any foreign nation states as truth until that truth is proved.

Isn't Koen a pretty big guy?

Meaning gated?

I was curious, you posted a few days ago regarding Peter C. that you had lots of information about him, and alluded to a boat going out and not returning for week . . . is there a connection, and can you elaborate? TIA!

SB, yes..I had forgotten about Koen.  It is concievable that he has a size 14 shoe size.

hey bleached.. and in fact all y'all...


I keep hearing about a discussion last night, can someone please give me highlights?

The hotels are dropping prices plus paying part of the air! They also have closed large sections of hotels for remodeling and laying off staff! That makes their vacaney rate look better in reports!

I see the post about the what-if scenario about Beth's actions if Natalee's body had been returned.

I agree, it would have been impossible for her NOT to have called for a thorough forensic exam, and the FBI would have been more openly involved since there would have been prima-facie evidence to work with of a crime.

Paulus and the others would have known, expected, and prepared for that. Which is likely why there IS no body that has been produced, and likely never will be.

Actually, I still cannot get over my instinct that this "shoe business" is just a load of bull.....a major distraction...................unless, of course, we find Natalee's body with these shoes.

Is that the one from last summer or is this a new one?

I did'nt see anyting in these photos that IMO would be Lorenzo's basement. Am I missing something??

Ono - I agree with everything you are saying.  All I was suggesting is that Aruba was ready to pin a MURDER charge on the Security Guards.  Because Beth/Jug and Dave knew the HI drop off was a lie they faught for the security guards innocense.  

What I'm saying is that IF Beth/Jug and Dave were not aware of the HI lie, they may have believed the security guards were guilty of murder.  No problem blaming 2 security guards for murder and rape.  Why would the security guards be arrested on murder charges on June 5th if there wasn't knowledge of a murder?  If all had gone the way ALE and others planned it, JK2 and Paulus would be "out of the woods".   Natalee's body could somehow be "found" and given to her family.

Does that make sense?

IMO the shoe business may sound trivial, but as with much information that was discussed here very early in the case, and then sorta qualified in the news ie the fact that Joran was missing 1 sneaker, seems to make it a real possibility. Do any of the posters here remember one of the aruba posters stating early last summer that Joran had infact gone shopping in an attempt to purchase one size 14 sneaker? This was very early....summer 2005

IMO Perfect sense. Well stated Klass.

That is an old article, 2005.

True, but if it had happened to a family less diligent the outcome of whether a body was produced might be different, IMO.

I think that was early when we still believed that people wanted to help that we now know better....and I know I am the only one that thinks so, but I still think Joran was wearing the shoes on Greta.... that smirk just said it all... that was one of those stupid little details that they threw in to make it real... I think...

Hey....
As anyone read my tread.... K.I.S.S. ?????

I happen to think it was disclosed early enough that it ( the info about the missing sneaker) was probably a fact. Of course there is no way of knowing....That was one of the things we discussed last night ........the early contributions made by AG......which as the case evolved, and the involvement of her friend/neighbor became clear to many......her input changed.

Evening Monkey Folks!! :)
Have a question ... sorry for bargin in..lol
I dont know how many of you were all were FP posters. way back at the beginning of the case.. before the forum was even set up.
 I have a few dumb questions for ANYONE that posted then on FP at the beginning.  If you have.. can you email me at Angiex911dsptchr@aol.com
I have been reading the FP off and on lately, and someone  peeked my interest that posted wayyyyyyyyyy back when.  TIA!! I appreciate it!
(been working a new job and havnt had much time to breath lately)
Hope you all are doing well!! :)

Angie - email me with your question..I may be able to answer it.  You have my addy.

Just checked it out. Very nice work! . . . I think you are onto something. But I have one question. What makes you believe that Natalee is alive, and why being from Alabama made her the chosen one?

it changed so quickly in hindsight... but who knew?

Certainly not I......

me either but boy time does one thing... true colors definately shine through...

Yes, and I think it's about as convoluted a misapplication of logic as one can get.

Why so Carnut?

That sounds awfully harsh . . . but who am I to say. I thought we were all here to share opinions and information.

Don't be shy, Car, tell us how you really see it.  :D

Where is it, Florida?

Was a pic posted last night that may be Lorenzo? If so, where might one locate it?

Hi, monkeys!

Oh, btw, having an IEP conference for Justin tomorrow, and the head of the gifted/talented program will be there. Testing demonstrated that he is very bright.  :D

Evening monkeys...tonight I am just going to sit back and relax.  What's the topic for discussion?  I didn't see any basement in those photos, did I miss something?

A theory without proof or any explanation is just a guess.

And sometimes a guess leads to a thought process that uncovers explanation and proof.

Here you go, pictures of Lorenzo (or so we have been told)

http://www.scaredmonkeys.net/viewtopic.php?p=72472&highlight=lorenzo#72472

Of course Justin is bright!  I could have told you that!!   :D

Sorry, I am at a loss for words to describe how and why I disagree.

I'm totally amazed how one can go from 3guys picking up a girl in a bar and then disappearing her, and lying about it, to what is described in that thread.

Thanks!! Klaas email at Cox  :)

Angie - my regular email isn't working.  Email me at smklaasend@hotmail.com

Well....I KNOW that the security guards were the "fall guys"...that was clearly evident to everyone including the blind, from the get-go, a year and a half ago.  However, I do not see how anything Beth said or did not say, or did, or did not do, would have made any difference at all, as to the recovery of the body, OR naming the guilty.....It is very apparent now, that all who count on Aruba, as far as legal or law enforcement goes, lie and maneuver at will . Recovering Natalee's remains at any time was never an option for the guilty on Aruba................whatever Beth did or did not do, say or did not say, made absolutely NO difference to these criminals.  They were determined that the truth was to be hidden...however, truth has a funny way of always rising for all to see. Truth will rise.

Well by basement....the place where the party was happening , painted all wild colors, no windows. If you read the diary Brian, the guy who is writing talks about being driven to a place where the party is, and then when they went there the next night un-escorted by the people they were with the first time, they are dually kicked out......those were the basement pics I think that were refered to. Last night we did see a pic (had been posted in the past) of LVR.

Evening Lala's. Me either. I saw the Tango earlier today and was tempted to jump in.  :)

Guess I just wasn't under the impression that discussing someone's latest fantasies or nightmares was gonna help on the case.

Well it's certainly not what I would describe as K.I.S.S.  :wink:

Yes, I recall that but not sure who said it.  I do recall also that the "one missing shoe" became "two missing shoes" at some point and not sure when that came to be unless it was the Great interview of the big mongoloid.

You should have...I don't care what side you are on...it's always fun...well, sometimes. :roll:

So where are the pictures?

Well, think there's speculation that if Beth hadn't blown the SG's as fallguys, that maybe the plan had been to recover the body.

Yes that's a bit of a reach, but if you look at how a previous statement said someone had told where the body could be found and the disruption that occured that day, may have been in preparation to give up the body, only that plan got derailed.

Guess we all will never know on that one.

Some of the assmotion pictures that we saw earlier on, appeared to have been taken in a similar place.

I definitely will next go round! I happen to believe there is something to it.  :D

One noteworthy thing about Beth's belief in the innocence of the SG's was that it was EARLY and CONSISTENT. She never wavered in her focus on Joran and the K2, and never swallowed in ANY way the idea that the guards were culpable. She obviously had had zero time to acquire much of the info we now have. Her first instinct with the limited knowledge she had, was the the focus needed to be on JK2. That should tell us something.

That is more than just "they were the last ones with her". Somehow, before even knowing about Renfro and Jacobs and PVDS's duplicity and all the confusion that would follow, she had info or knowledge or understanding enough about the events to tell her that the SG story was bogus.

Where did that knowledge come from?

Frankly, I am surprised any of them are still alive. I would think also, that their attorney, Koch, would feel at risk.  This  chapter is not closed, IMO.

Wait!  Are you saying the photo of the yellow looking shack is the basement?

I think they may have been waiting to see what the reaction would be, whether the family would buy whatever lies they were trying out. Then the media came, and there was no way, between Nat's family and the US media, that their lies would be accepted.

Tylergal wrote;


That was definately where the original 1 sneaker became 2, in the Greta interview.  then there was also an interview /statement given by dompig in which he mentioned 2 sneakers....not just one. I remember Red even ran a front page story about the fact.

BTW Hi Tyler! LONG time no see!

Beth had ready access to the MB's on the trip.

IMO First and foremost, a mother's instinct, secondly the instinct of a strong southern woman. Hell hath no fury!

Hi, SB, same here.  Good seeing you and all the monkes.

God only knows America has already sent enough money over the years in the form of tourist dollars. Enough, already, I say.... And what has it earned us in just wanting justice for this precious American girl ? NOTHING. To hell with Aruba.

yes, to hell with aruba...
on that note good night Monkeys...

keep the faith!

As well as what she learned upon arrival to the cesspool.

Been harder lately to catch anyone on here to talk to! Y'all have been mostly daytime Monkeys the last few weeks and I've been real busy.

SOMETHING about what Beth heard from the MB group gave her an early conviction that the 3 amigos were conspiring to do something to Natalee. They must not have considered her departure with the creeps to be an innocent joyride, somehow, from what they had seen.

That, plus she just connected the dots in her own mind.

And sometimes a guess is an attempt to supply "misinformation" and detract attention from the real perpetrators--Joran and the Kalpoes.

Well, think everyone kinda figures whoever was last seen with a missing person is who you want to talk to.

Tyler, if you're still here, I may be e-mailing you and some other Monkeys soon with an idea I had. Not quite developed yet but something I've been considering for a while.

SB, I'm with you.  We need to continue to focus on the real perpetrators of this crime, Joran and the Kalpoes.  The facts are undeniable.  I don't need any conspiracy theories, and the details surrounding this crime will come out, in time.  For now, I know that J2K kidnapped, raped and killed Natalee.  No one will convince me otherwise.

I agree AZLady.

I would like that, SB.  I have been out of the loop lately secondary to illness and home repairs.  Sick of home repairs.  :)  No, I really did have an illness but it was probably stres sdue to all the upgrades and the $$$$$$$$.

Klass...I respect you so much. All I have to say is that I do not believe that Natalee's body would have ever been "found" or returned to her family, no matter what Beth did or did not do, at any point in time.  These people who are guilty or who are connected to this despicable crime & coverup, (especially the coverup), would in no way give Natalee's family any satisfaction or relief from their agony.  The folks involved are professional and cold-blooded, IMO. It is big time bad.

I am agreeing with that.  I think there are few who will not, maybe even the Refugees have to say otherwise on the internet, but they in their hearts know otherwise, but it does not pay to admit the truth if you are  a RU.

Yes, it unfortunately goes both ways.  :?

Just specultaing . . . However, say the three are the perpetrators, but the attention they receive brings attention to all the other "practices/illegal activities" on the island? What do you think would be the outcome and who would help to cover up the crime??

AZLady, believe me, I'm not discounting others being involved as well. I am convinced they aren't the ONLY guilty ones.

I keep hearing little tidbits that seem to give a general trend of events that gets closer to the Shango scenarios all the time. But I think the "rave" was not just a big teen party, I think there was organization and networking involved.

You know, Klaas's theory (that Natalee's body would have been returned if the SG's went down for the crime) would hold water if Dave and Beth had been average parents of an average teenager.  If they had just stayed in Aruba, trusting the ALE, and then left after a couple weeks to grieve in silence, I could see the ALE believing they might return the body and get away with this scam.  Actually, the ALE seem stupid enough to actually plan something like this and completely underestimate the "stupid Americans" (in their eyes).  I think they realized this was not going to work after the first week of dealing with Beth and Dave.  They had to scramble to change the plan and that might be why everything came down in the chaotic and confusing manner on June 10-11.  Possible.

Ono - You could be right.  I don't feel strongly enough to banter with you about it.  I just was suggesting the possibility, but you are probably right.

 :lol:  Yeah, I guess - I know I sure as heck haven't read it 2,000 times! Have you? (I do go there once in a while, to look for something, especially when I'm writing letters.)

Seriously, though - I just happened to notice last night that there were 3,97_ views. I think there have been close to a hundred more since then.

Well, shadow, I posted the first articles last June 2005 about the money laundering on the island and the casinos.  My reasoning was that it took an entirely corrupt legal and law enforcement system to allow the Black Market Peso exchange to thrive.  The money laundering has now moved to the online gambling business in Aruba, and if the heat is on, that business is highly portable and can be moved to other places quite easily.  The porn business likewise is easily moved.  The entire island is a haven for drugs, money laundering, porn and illegal gambling and has been for decades.  You don't grow these businesses without a corrupt system, to the core.

"Truth has a ring" ?  If one listens, it can be detected.

 :shock:  :shock:  :shock: ]

[/b]

You're right about that!

Yes, others have to be involved to orchestrate this coverup.  No doubt.  Lala's, I do think Shango was trying to give us clues.  I just wonder where he went?   :shock:

I don't think Shango ever left...just morphed into someone else.

Casting blame on the victim or their family gives the guilty criminals "a ticket to ride".

I just wonder if Aruba is more upset and concerned about the porn and money laundering moving elsewhere now that the world's flashlight has illuminated the dark corners.  I just bet that more Dutch officials are disturbed at these businesses leaving Aruba than the tourists not coming to Aruba!!

 :shock:  :shock:  :shock:

Do you think he's still trying to give us the clues that will shed some light on this?

Well, with an ego the size of Shango's would you just leave and never come back?  Afterall, he is very popular around here and has garnered a lot of attention.

There was never any intention of returning the body to the family.  The family knew right away this was wrong and they would have asked for an autopsy and these maggots in Aruba knew that.  They knew her body could never be returned to the family because it would have cleared the security guards.  DNA is a powerful witness.  Even Deepak knows that as he said, "If they find the girl, they are going to see all that shit."

If I knew the answer to that question, I would be Shango.  :wink:

I'm with you! 8)

Since a month had passed before the conversation in the van took place, I wonder just exactly what kind of "chit" Deepak meant.  Taking decomp into consideration and excluding DNA, just what did they do to her?  It makes me faint of heart to even think about it.  :shock:

MsMarple, I just took a look at the Crimes thread.  This is top-notch work!!  You are to be commended.  Everyone needs to read this thread.  While some threads are pure speculation and wishful guessing, this thread is based on facts and verifiable reports.  I'm very impressed and will make this thread one of my stops each time I login to catch up with the Monkeys.

I don't want to banter either...we don't know. But I have had the sneaky, creepy feeling from the beginning that whatever it was that Natalee inadvertantly fell into that evening without her knowledge was serious crime stuff and there would be no "normal" negotiation to any future resolution. Whatever it is that "they" are hiding on that crime-infested island,  Natalee was just an irritating attention getter that "they" had never counted upon. I shudder to think what really must go on behind the scenes of Aruba on a day to day basis. :shock:  I'm thinking that Joran and his band of pirates has brought on way too much attention now.  We have also witnessed the sophisticated level of coverup...equate the coverup modus operandi with what must be under the surface. Lotta doo doo. :shock:

Lala's, I can't help but think Satish's gun was used to inflict wounds upon her.  These could not be covered up or disguised.  Maybe this is the hold that the van der Sloot's have on the Kalpoe brothers.  It was Satish's gun.

It is excellent work.  Msmarples/Anna and others put alot of work into it.

Msmarples and Anna - do you guys think I should move the Murder and Crime thread into the Important Case Document forum?

It is bigger than 3 teen guys. This is organized on an adult level. The sophistication with which it has been covered up is well beyond a pack of tenn wannabe guys.

It's too elaborate not to have been SB

Oh, yes.  We know there are others involved in the coverup.  Key people in ALE and Prosecutor's office are involved, that's a fact.  It's a mystery how much further it spreads from there.

and online gaming as well, it is the future

Agreed. Now, was the original kidnapping in this particular cae done on the behest & behalf of an adult ?

Oops..meant to say "case"..

None, I know you are aware of the huge money involved in online gambling.  My mind is boggled by the numbers alone.  Doesn't it seem odd that online gambling is perfectly legal and allowable in Aruba, yet we have not seen one picture, read one reference, or heard one person from Aruba refer to this highly lucrative business.  Online gambling is legal there, yet it is the best kept secret on that crappy little island. How come?  I find this very, very odd.

Ono: I agree with you 100%. They, meaning, as you put it so well, that "crime -infested island" couldn't stand the attention. And, IMO I think one or more of those illegal interests has been essentially shut down, for now. Possibly re-located???

After I saw the video tape of Joran and the MB girls in the casino, and Natalee talking to Paulus, I have to answer YES.  This convinced me that Paulus chose Natalee and told Joran to bring her to him/them.

Nope.

Carnut, we'll have to agree to disagree.  :lol:

I'm guessing no one knows the answer, but was that gun confiscated?

 :idea:  Try this:
What if Satish couldn't do it - shoot someone - and Joran grabbed the gun and shot Natalee? (Because if Satish had shot Natalee, we wouldn't be here. It would all have been over in June 2005.)

Onward. That would be a gun with J's fingerprints, a gunshot wound, and maybe an embedded bullet.

In that event, there is literally a smoking gun out there that could be found someday. It could be under Satish's mattress, or on the floor of the Caribbean - but it could turn up.

Would make for some tense moments in the VDS lives.

I have to admit that this was literally a light bulb that just went off. Haven't really thought it through.

Oh - and thanks AZLady re. the M&C thread. Input from many Monkeys on that one.

I've had to do that with more than a few folks around here.

Humm, why a gun?

Did it have a silencer?

MsMarple, that's what I believe happened, basically.  Satish said in the polis car conversation that they did not find the gun.  He was reassuring Joran that he got rid of it--the ALE did not find it when they searched his home.  I do believe that this gun is the link that keeps the Kalpoe's alive today.  The Sloot's do not trust that the gun is permanently gone, and it is the Kalpoe's hold over them.

I think it's because so little is required to gain a license and locate servers in the Caribbean. All that is required to start an online gaming company is an application to the Minister of Justice in Aruba, who grants approval at his sole discretion.

Rudy Croes and Paulus as his special assistant and counsel? It's a business that is largely offshore, feeds upon the US and as we are now seeing, our legislators are trying to lower their feasting upon our dollars.

San says YES, anyone else? :lol:

I don't know.  But I do know that Satish brought up the gun right at the end of the conversation in the polis car.  This is not just idle chatter, but it means something significant to this case.

Shut down or re-located?...There's no telling, probably too soon for big time re-location...but what is for damned sure is that we have certainly heard the "screaming and bellowing" from "their"  water carriers on other forums, so evidently, nerves have been struck.....Little did anyone know a year and a half ago just what had been going on under the surface of Aruba. It blows the mind when one thinks of the travel hype. They must have laughed themselves all the way to the bank daily.

Klaas-

I vote yes too.

For what it's worth, I'll say YES as well.

We discussed this a couple of months ago and I too believe she could have been shot.  I also agree the person who would have the nerve to do it would be Joran.  They mentioned the gun in the police car conversation.  Satish mentioneds they looked for it and nothing was found.  Could someone be holding this gun for the Kalpoes because it gives them leverage with Joran.

I say YES, also.  I think it needs to be where people looking for the facts can find it.

Msmarple - do you say YES as well?  :lol:

Sorry, I think it's just a simple threat that JVDS knows something illegal that can be held against Satish, to help keep the Bros Kalpoe towing the line.

San, that would be the answer to a prayer.  Obviously, the Kalpoes and Joran are uneasy bedfellows, neither trusting the other but bound by some evidence or knowledge the other holds.  We know the Sloot's leverage is their Dutch ancestry and connections.  What is the Kalpoes' leverage?  They have evidence of some kind.  The gun?

They way the statement is phrased, it sounds like more a reference to something "internal" rather than to her outward appearance. It isn't "they will SEE all that...", it is, "they will FIND all that..." That sounds like they would have to test or investigate in some way. External injuries would be "seen".

and you're entitled to your opinion just as others are. I vote it's more complex for the scrutiny has been blinding here, few garden-variety criminals could have survived it this long without larger players.

So far, I am inclined to agree...I also think it is very plausible that Joran is protecting his father in this.

It's kinda obvious JVDS is protecting PVDS, but I think it's because PVDS handled the body disposal and the coverup.

Yup, I suspect Paulus is up to his closely trimmed nostril hairs in this.

And/or proof of knowledge of Paulus' interest in Natalee ? There is some damning meaning in that Kalpoe statement to Joran : "....your own father."

i got a five dollar bill in change the other day when i bought something

it said "ARUBA SUCKS"


honest, it wasnt me  8) that wrote it  :twisted:

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 6:06 pm
I ponder the evidence of sex and drugs with the father. It was to hard for her and she could not handle the pressure. I am done. I am leaving now…..

Joran: That's your problem. If they find that girl, then they will see that shit.
Joran could easily be referring to bullet wounds they could "see" on the body.

Below is the bit of conversation that intrigued me.  This is the first I read any mention of a gun, and Joran brings it up to Satish in jeering manner.  I think he wants to know what happened to the gun.

Joran: I should have killed you, +++++. Shut your trap.
Deepak: Won't be fun, if you are standing in front of the judge of instructions tomorrow. Why not? Too much evidence?
Joran: Then they are also allowed to hit me. Do you think that it makes a difference to me. One slap will be enough.
Satish: You think, you think.
Joran: What do you think, that you are going home to get your gun?
Satish: That I have a gun.
Joran: Satish, you, get gun at home, me shoot you two dead.
Satish: Look, the police already went to my house and already investigated [searched] the house. Did they find a gun? What will she get? ["Wat zal zij krijgen." The word 'zij' is for the word 'she' or for 'they', but they use the singular verb for 'will', therefore'she']
Deepak: (to Joran) Sometimes, you talk bullshit, right?
Joran: (to Deepak) Why is that shit not true? Witnesses saw you.
Satish: In the end we will see, who gets out and who stays. You tell the truth, we shall see.

Joran: That's your problem. If they find that girl, then they will see that shit.


BOMBSHELL

This is one I had not seen before.

 :shock:

There is a LOT there.

Robots, I agree.  What else would they see but obvious trauma, or gunshot wounds, to her body?

yep

Did I misquote? I thought it said "find", not "see".

But that could still be "internal" (they could "see" a toxicolgy test for drugs in her system).

Someone earlier was talking of a stalemate between the Kalpoes and van der Sloots--something that kept them both in a macabre dance, neither being able to let go.  Aside from Natalee's body, I think it is the gun and the evidence it provides.

I have been  by the house....i swear...locals know guy is nutttts

who knowa what happens in his basement.
all of the sparay painting on his homes exterior was inflammatory to aruba and the govt...he was a nutttttyy....and jorans ahlf bro...NICE

I copied the quote from the polis car transcript in the Important Case Documents thread at http://www.scaredmonkeys.net/viewforum.php?f=6

Brian says the name of the after hours club is Echo.  He says they have to whisper the name, "Echo!"

Where are these "Brian" pics you are talking about? I didn't see them OR a Lorenzo pic. The previous thread?

Shoot--I opened my history to find the link to the pics, and clicked on the link and logged myself out of the forum!   :lol:   Here it is:
http://ikeepadiary.com/diary/2004/01_22_aruba_vacation/frame_index.html

It's a rather amusing and frank pictorial about two guys who spend a week in Aruba.

I have the Lorenzo pic around here somewhere.  I'll look for it.

I can't find it right now.  Klaas has it though, and probably filed much more efficiently than I!  It simply shows a clean cut blondish young man following an older woman and man in a garden.  You can't see their faces well at all.  I'm not sure it's even significant, to be honest.

Lorenzo pics

http://www.scaredmonkeys.net/viewtopic.php?p=72472&highlight=lorenzo#72472

Did everyone leave?  Hellllooooo....

Nope it's not simple at all...it means something or Satish wouldn't bring it up.

Hi Klaas!  Whew...I thought I was alone.  skeery

Actually, reading back, Joran brought it up first, mocking Satish with it.  I was surprised at how calmly and coolly Satish told Joran not to worry about the gun (I'm paraphrasing) and that it was not found.

Yep, you beat me to it.

This was posted at BFN....

The National Enquirer

I was told by a representative from the National Enquirer that the issue with the photos should be available on newsstands Thursday, November 16, 2006. This all came about after the photos were shown at the family meeting in October.

After the meeting, Art Wood contacted me and asked me to send the photos to three different email addresses. I did so and was subsequently contacted by David Wright from the National Enquirer. By complying with Art's request, my only goal was to help in the search for Natalee and I did this with Beth and Dave's knowledge and approval. The other email addresses were to forensic labs.

I'm not a scientist and I do not know what if anything these photos may lead to. It's now in the hands of professionals

I have been told I will be receiving a nominal fee from the National Enquirer. I did not do this for personal gain and the money will be donated in Natalee's name.

I will continue to do whatever is within my power to see that Natalee is returned to her family. My thoughts and prayers are with them.

Blonde
http://blogsfornatalee.com/forums/index.php?topic=5455.30

refering to the plastic bag pictures from chicago video

Joran: Satish, you, get gun at home, me shoot you two dead.
Satish: Look, the police already went to my house and already investigated [searched] the house. Did they find a gun? What will she get? ["Wat zal zij krijgen." The word 'zij' is for the word 'she' or for 'they', but they use the singular verb for 'will', therefore'she']
Deepak: (to Joran) Sometimes, you talk bullshit, right?
Joran: (to Deepak) Why is that shit not true? Witnesses saw you.

Joran changes his speech pattern with this first line.  He uses a sort of pidgeon English, as if he is speaking to a child or an inferior.  Satish answers in a cool and adult manner of speech, as if he's not playing Joran's game.  Then, Deepak--ever the big brother--takes over and challenges Joran by saying he's talking bullshit, right?  There is more going on here than the words state.

Heh, heh, that sure beats my first guess as to who sent them.

I dont know who Blond is  :?

I certainly hope she sent the link to the original Chicago videos so the forensics labs can take a good look at these.  Screen shots captured by an amateur are not going to reveal the same information that the forensic labs might get from the original videos.

evenin' monkeys

But, don't you think the family had these inspected when they first surfaced?  I would hope so.

Okay, I looked at those pics again and I still didn't see any basement.  Are you monkeys fooling me now? :roll:

 Yup I agree

Hi memphis.  Join the conversation.  I feel like I'm talking to myself much of the time.  However, I seldom disagree with me, so it's not that bad.  :lol:

I suspicion it doesn't really matter where the photos came from or what actually might be in them, as long as it keeps some more media out there on the case.

I remember a Blonde from very early on at the first Natalee board.
Is she a poster at BFN now?

I didn't either, Lala's.  Sometimes there are false leads and then there are false leads....   :lol:

True, true.

Hi AZ!  :D

Lala's,

They must have meant the pics that were taken in the Echo Bar?

Is Sharon still around? Shout out to Sharon!!  YOO HOO!!

Brian Pix?

Brian Battjer: I keep a diary DOT com.

It's all there: Club Echo.  Homosexual Abduction/Rape sequence.  Polis captain on the late-nite scene, boozing and bombed.

http://www.ikeepadiary.com/diary/2004/01_22_aruba_vacation/frame_index.html

Check out part one: Crazy first nite in town.

Aruba is a crime infested dump.

.

Apparently.  She saw an opportunity and claimed her five minutes of fame.  I don't think it's much more than that.

I'm way back on page 12, but wasn't Bleached wondering if that could have been Lorenzo's basement because there were no windows, etc.?

I think it is just one of those after hours bars like Brian says. I don't think it is Lorenzo's basement.

HUH???

Yup.  Even in 2004, it seemed quite obvious that partying in Aruba was a dangerous game, even for grown men.

I dont know Debbie Posted that quote, I am not on BFN that much but I dont recall seeing that name But I dont get out of my box much

Do I need to read back? Did I miss anything big?

Lala's, you've made me giggle.  It's convoluted and not really important, but I'll try to recap.  When we were discussing Lorenzo's basement, someone said they'd like to see pics of Lorenzo's basement.  Someone else speculated that maybe the pics of the two guys partying in Aruba were really taken in Lorenzo's basement.  (Big leap here)  This sent us all off looking at the pictures again of the two guys trip to Aruba in 2004 where they partied with some locals in an afterhours place.  Brian, one of the guys, said it was a bar named Echo.  I really don't think there is anything more than that to it.

Dunno, think I saw post a ways back that Lala's said she thinks Shango is still here posting on the forum.

I was waiting for her to clairify it a bit.

Not really, memphis.  We're just rehashing the same stuff.  We've all said it before.  It's really just a waiting game--waiting now for someone to talk or the de Vries program to break something open.

I had seen that diary before. Unreal.

Just jump in some stranger's car and get driven off to who knows where in a foreign country, with no concern at all about your safety. Because you met them in a bar, they are automatically OK.

What were they thinking...  :roll:

Thanks for letting me know where the pics were.

Oh! Goody!  :lol:

I like Shango talk.

Lala's, did you see this?
bleached was just wondering, I think.

Is that what I said? Are you sure?

Sounds like bleached was referring to Brian's return trip to Echo...

Yeah, it's stories like this that make you shake your head and wonder how many people survive their youth.  Obviously, some do not.

The International Friends of Aruba welcomes new members,
Charles and Iracema Croes
http://tinyurl.com/y32gnr

Dunno, could be wrong I guess, but I ain't gonna go back and look for it.

Thanks AZ and others that tried to help my feeble mind...I see it was just a maybe thing about it could be or what if scenario.  

Now, on to Shango... someone light the fires and I will be ready to roll.

Boy, we've been busy tonight!

I need to sign off but I want to say that I am glad we are keeping our people here. Even if we slow down at times, we're still going strong. Y'all hang in there and I'll be back tomorrow night!

Here we go again.  Where's that popcorn?

This is what I actually said... just in case anyone was wondering.

Ok, and now, what is your definition of 'morphed'?

They are a party-ing group down there, aren't they?  Social, social, social...

Lala's,

Any thoughts on Shock the Monkey?

Okay, who or what is "Shock the Monkey"?  Sounds like a great Aruban party game.

Well, let's see I really hadn't thought about it but...since you asked.

Shango has been in the neighborhood since he left as Shango.  Like I said would you not stick around to see how your project turned out?  To see who was, as you might say, dumb enough to believe any of that stuff. Or maybe even smart enough to figure it all out. Who knows, but if Shango is real, I would bet you he's still watching us from afar.

 :lol: Yeah, it does, lol.

He was another one posting on the front page in June 2005. He seemed to have access to things happening. He told about the arrest of PVDS before it was announced...

Shock was a poster that was there at the time of Shango.

Of course.  Someone who spent that amount of time posting riddles and watching reactions would most likely still follow the case.  And, this is the place he spun his web of intrigue.  So, this is where he would continue to read, and possibly, post.  Makes sense.

I have a question. The Simian doppleganger was discussed quite a bit. I'm not sure that there was a second person posting as Simian, I think Simian was talking about something else. Correct me if I'm wrong, but how would someone post under another's ID? Even on the FP, wouldn't they need the password?

I remember that name.  I can't remember specific posts, but I remember the name now.

For those that have never read any Shango/Simian posts, you should really read it all in context with the other posters comments. It makes a little more sense when you do.  It is archived on the FP.

I don't doubt whoever the poster shango was, is still around reading the threads, you don't even have to be registered to do that, but I sure thought you had implied, in your previous post, that you thought shango had morphed into someone who was a regular poster here?

I think that was what I was waiting in anticipation for.

Let's think about this.  What do you other monkeys think?

No, and it happened several times with other people.

Carnut
I think that is entirely possible.  In more ways than one.  Very possible.

If I recall, Shango first mentioned the doppleganger.  I remember it because it was such an odd word for someone to use.  Simian seemed to deliberately bait and try to refute Shango's posts most of the time.  I had the impression that when Simian brought up the doppleganger, it was a way of confusing what Shango had said.  I really had the impression that Simian was trying to negate or stifle Shango.

Well, shucks, I thought you were gonna name names.

I think ShocktheMonkey was yanking our chain, much like Gretamal, Kelmal, Johnm.  I think ShocktheMonkey was a troll and was just playing with us.  I have good reason to believe that.  We've actually had quite a few chain yankers on the front page (and I'm not referring to Shango or Simian).

Yes, Yes! That is exactly the impression I got. I thought she was angry and responding to Shango.

Although in this case, it would not be necessary if you purused the witness testimony and the conversations --- in which case, you would be able to agree on many points that heretofore, we have found disagreement.  Hi Carnut.  It's a free country and we can agree and still be friends, but I really do not find how you cannot see it this way but then your rationaliation of it, is probably pretty much like Greta's.

OMG! Carnut is Shango!  

:lol:  :lol:  :lol:

 :wink:

Allow me to explain...Simian posted in much more down to earth language than Shango.  When the supposed doppleganger showed up, there was one particular poster that always knew.  That is why you need to see it with the other posters comments that were interspersed with Shango and Simian's. The poster was Allyinmiami.  She is a real person and she has/had a tickle site for a while. Anyway, she had a code phrase that she and Simian used to identify each other.  That way they both knew if they were the real thing.
It is clear that Shango knew as well.

Add to that easy process, Paulus was in charge of licenses.

Heh, heh, I ain't smart enough to be shango.

No, on the front page you do not need a password.  If you name is MARY and someone is already posting as MARY there is nothing stopping you also from posting as MARY.  So, you could actually have 2 simians posting.  The only way to tell if they are different would for Admin to look at the email addresses and or IP addresses.  Of course those can be changed to but it's unlikely someone trying to pretend to be Simian would use the exact IP and email address as the other.

VMS, was this going on during the time that Simian and Shango were posting?

Klaas, was this happening?

Let's revisit this conversation because it was in this same conversation that the choller was mentioned, the one that Satish may have run over and Joran threw into the water.

I wonder if Simian's posts contributed to the last of the Shango posts.  Perhaps Shango did not like Simian's imitation of his writing style.  Maybe he felt uncomfortable at the negative attention Simian was drawing to them both.  I think some posters found it difficult to distinguish between Shango and Simian.  This made Shango angry, but perhaps it was what Simian intended--confusion.

A video tucked away with proof, perhaps in Nadira's locker at the steakhouse, and now removed to her tampax box.

Actually stuff like that was going on on several blogs/forums, it was obviously a concernted effort on someones part.

I was wondering where you were. I was waiting for your response. :wink:

The secret is out... :lol: Run, Carnut, Run!

Klaas, were there more than one IP and email posting as Shango?  were there more than one posting as Simian?

Paulus' DNA.  She threatened to tell.  Joran did "always do what my family says."  Joran shot her with  Deepak's gun.  Deepak & Satish may have not only a gun but a video of this crime.

Klaas - does moving the M&C thread impact the links to it - the links that are in the various letters & emails I have out there?

I only run when the shango gospel discussion gets too heavy to handle.

Highly possible.  Now, what are the chances that this stalemate can be broken?

What is a doppleganger?  An exact replica of the original in appearance, yet with very subtle, yet distinct differences.  You have to know the difference to be able to tell who is who.

One almost found himself in the same situation as Natalee, save for his friend, we might be wondering where he disappeared to.

Unoh, that would be a concern.

Does anyone have the pictures that I deleted long ago of the basement where Lorenzo is and there is a group of people.  It appears to be his house.

Klaas, does the FBI and the family know who Shango is?  I don't have to know this, but I hope the family does and have talked to this person.

My impression was that Shango was much, much cooler than Simian. Simian started copying Shango's style, but I think Simian seemed jealous of Shango.

Yes, I agree.  Shango was quite mesmerizing.  Simian was an idiot who just seemed to disrupt the conversations and act dramatic.

{{edit}}

Edit:  I believe there are 2, Blonde and McBlondeLand.  It's Blonde that has the screen capture that will be in the NE. (klaasend)

Do these terms have anything in common?  
keywest
sandrak
blonde
florida

What was the code phrase?

I examined what you said to see if that is what you said and when you first said it, it was implied but as you expanded on it, it only sounded as though you think Shango is still around, but you never said is still posting.  You were quite illusive or elusive or alusive or something but you never said Shango was still posting.  Never did I see that, or saw you say that, or hear it either, and I think I read pretty well.

Good question AZlady.

I think the answer is yes.

Through the maze :shock:

Yet, Simian knew somethings before Shango...some things that really did happen.

Yeah, yeah. How clever of you to pretend to be the antithesis of Shango. How very clever Carnut.

What do you think it was? :lol:

Shock the Monkey was predicting (claiming to have insight to) things before they happened and suddenly "shock the monkey" no longer existed.  I wonder if Shock the Monkey is pushing up daisies or sharks.

That is because I didn't say it.  :wink:

Not on the FP.

I say WHOA again.  :shock:

Ok, been checking Simian posts on the front page.  There were at least 2 TROLLS playing games.  There was indeed one Simian and two trolls.  I've only gotten through some of the posts of the first fake Simian but they signed on using many different names, at least 10 different names.

Who was the "Frenchmen" referred to at that time?  Tito Lacle?  Pretty darn French.

Tylergal
I can't find those pics right now...I may not have them any longer.

ROFL

I think we figured out who AllyinMiami was, did we not?   One of the dopplegangers was also disclosed, although I am not at liberty to disclose the disclosure.

So you see why you have to know who is who to be able to know what is what.  I just confused myself...again. :roll:

Of course, cuz Sim had a relative in LE me thinks.

Unless they were sitting side by side int he Internet Cafe or ALE headquarters.

I know the FBI and the family have been told who is believed to be Shango and Simian.  I thought I read that at least Simian did go to the FBI but I'm not positive.

Yep, but I can't remember who the doppleganger was. Dang it! Old age strikes again. :roll:

Why Lala's I don't know. I can go read, but I'll fall farther behind.  :wink:

ME2

Once again...I issue the challenge...PROVE to me who Simian really is and who Shango really is.   It's not so easy.

Tyler, didn't you hear? You are now at liberty to disclose.  :D

:wink:

I'm with ya.

Klaas this makes you an extra special super hero!
I think it's important to know which posts where made by "Simian" and which by trolls.

AGAGAGAGAGAG

My theory was that's who the real Simian was.  :?

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 5:49 pm
The phone call to the father was made at 4:00 in the morning. No wonder he was late for school.

AllyinMiami Says: June 24th, 2005 at 5:51 pm
Simian, estoy contenta que regresaste

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 5:51 pm
Remember when they were pumping the pond by the Marriott? That is what they need to do in Montaña Noord.

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 5:55 pm
The confrontation is going down. “You made me lie.” “You conspired against me.” “Coward.”

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 5:57 pm
The waters are low. The street are full. The night of Saint John. The fires will burn all around on the island. The smoke will clear tomorrow morning.

I’m leaving…

 Could someone please translate the bolded commentby Allyinmiami? TIA

Ok..one of the posters that posted on June 27th under the name of Simian and was not posting from Aruba also posted many very nasty posts under these different names:

First Amendment
Devils Advocate
Clueless
Rachael
HughHeffner69
Kate
Upyours
crs
MomfromMo
Edie
KatCall
Not a dutch man but still
GI Jane
leapardqueen
Jake
killnatalee
TrueDutch
S
Charles
Frans
CountryMoon (maybe)
and of course simian

Simian posts by this person:

June 27, 2005
Her decapitated body to be found.

Her head to wash up on shore later

June 27, 2005
I have not left. I do not want to be copied however and would like to stay and speak.

June 27, 2005
I leave now. The island is stiring.

June 27, 2005
They have found her. Watch your news stations for this one. I said this was to happen. You can praise The Simian later

June 27, 2005
Ally ellos han encontrado su cuerpo. Mire las noticias para más información en esto

 :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol: