Scared Monkeys Discussion Forum

Well like I need to explain why this thread is being started, lol.

I am not an overly religious person meaning I do not attend a church nor do I have the bible memorized so i am going to defer my questions to those who are more knowledgable. This is from the clover road baptist church site. Does this sound conventional or radical or????

http://www.clover-road-baptist-church.com/church1.html
ABOUT OUR CHURCH                 

In 1957, the Airport MBC of Modesto and the Eastside MBC of Stocton authorized mission work in Tracy. Under this authority, the victory MBC was established and built on property donated to the church. Victory's first pastor was Eld. James Taylor. Eld. Charles Scott began pastoring Victory in 1970.

In 1974, the Landmark MBC of Salinas authorized mission work in Mountain Viewwhich resulted in the formation of the Sovereign Grace MBC. Eld. A.D. harris was their first pastor. After several years of meeting in rented facilities, the church, under the leadership of Eld. Lawles, began to look for a permanent location.

 Meanwhile, the Vicory MBC of Tracy was looking for assistance because of the failing health of Pastor Scott. Victory then approached Eld. Lawless and Sovereign Grace to request he consider a pastorate in Tracy.

 After much prayer by both Victory and Sovereign Grace, the churches voted to merge. In 1981, the members of Victory joined Sovereign Grace, donating their property and assests to the Sovereign Grace Church. We are now known as Clover Road Baptist Church.

 Since that time, we have reaffirmed our statements of faith, as found in the New Hampshire Confessions of Faith, and are committed to preaching God's sovereign grace, through the shed blood of Jesus Christ, by the power of the Holy Spirit.

 



http://www.spurgeon.org/~phil//creeds/nh_conf.htm

 
The New Hampshire
Baptist Confession, 1833
(The New Hampshire Confession)
 



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Contents
Of the Scriptures

Of the True God

Of the Fall of Man

Of the Way of Salvation

Of Justification

Of the Freeness of Salvation

Of Grace in Regeneration

Of Repentance and Faith

Of God's Purpose of Grace

Of Sanctification

Of the Perseverance of Saints

Of the Harmony of the Law and the Gospel

Of a Gospel Church

Of Baptism and the Lord's Supper

Of the Christian Sabbath

Of Civil Government

Of the Righteous and the Wicked

Of the World to Come
Notes


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his Confession was drawn up by the Rev. John Newton Brown, D. D., of New Hampshire (b. 1803, d. 1868), about 1833, and has been adopted by the New Hampshire Convention, and widely accepted by Baptists, especially in the Northern and Western States, as a clear and concise statement of their faith, in harmony with the doctrines of older confessions, but expressed in milder form. The text is taken from the Baptist Church Manual, published by the American Baptist Publication Society, Philadelphia.

Declaration of Faith
1. Of the Scriptures
e believe that the Holy Bible was written by men divinely inspired, and is a perfect treasure of heavenly instruction;1 that it has God for its author, salvation for its end,2 and truth without any mixture of error for its matter;3 that it reveals the principles by which God will judge us;4 and therefore is, and shall remain to the end of the world, the true center of Christian union,5 and the supreme standard by which all human conduct, creeds, and opinions should be tried.6

2. Of the True God
e believe that there is one, and only one, living and true God, an infinite, intelligent Spirit, whose name is JEHOVAH, the Maker and Supreme Ruler of Heaven and earth;7 inexpressibly glorious in holiness,8 and worthy of all possible honor, confidence, and love;9 that in the unity of the Godhead there are three persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost;10 equal in every divine perfection,11 and executing distinct and harmonious offices in the great work of redemption.12

3. Of the Fall of Man
e believe that man was created in holiness, under the law of his Maker;13 but by voluntary transgression fell from that holy and happy state;14 in consequence of which all mankind are now sinners,15 not by constraint, but choice;16 being by nature utterly void of that holiness required by the law of God, positively inclined to evil; and therefore under just condemnation to eternal ruin,17 without defense or excuse.18

4. Of the Way of Salvation
e believe that the salvation of sinners is wholly of grace,19 through the mediatorial offices of the Son of God;20 who by the appointment of the Father, freely took upon him our nature, yet without sin;21 honored the divine law by his personal obedience,22 and by his death made a full atonement for our sins;23 that having risen from the death, he is now enthroned in heaven;24 and uniting in his wonderful person the tenderest sympathies with divine perfections, he is every way qualified to be a suitable, a compassionate, and an all- sufficient Saviour.25

5. Of Justification
e believe that the great gospel blessing which Christ26 secures to such as believe in him is Justification;27 that Justification includes the pardon of sin,28 and the promise of eternal life on principles of righteousness;29 that it is bestowed, not in consideration of any works of righteousness which we have done, but solely through faith in the Redeemer's blood;30 by virtue of which faith his perfect righteousness is freely imputed to us of God;31 that it brings us into a state of most blessed peace and favor with God, and secures every other blessing needful for time and eternity.32

6. Of the Freeness of Salvation
e believe that the blessings of salvation are made free to all by the gospel;33 that it is the immediate duty of all to accept them by a cordial, penitent, and obedient faith;34 and that nothing prevents the salvation of the greatest sinner on earth but his own inherent depravity and voluntary rejection of the gospel;35 which rejection involves him in an aggravated condemnation.36

7. Of Grace in Regeneration
e believe that, in order to be saved, sinners must be regenerated, or born again;37 that regeneration consists in giving a holy disposition to the mind;38 that it is effected in a manner above our comprehension by the power of the Holy Spirit, in connection with divine truth,39 so as to secure our voluntary obedience to the gospel;40 and that its proper evidence appears in the holy fruits of repentance, and faith, and newness of life.41

8. Of Repentance and Faith
e believe that Repentance and Faith are sacred duties, and also inseparable graces, wrought in our souls by the regenerating Spirit of God;42 whereby being deeply convinced of our guilt, danger, and helplessness, and of the way of salvation by Christ,43 we turn to God with unfeigned contrition, confession, and supplication for mercy;44 at the same time heartily receiving the Lord Jesus Christ as our Prophet, Priest, and King, and relying on him alone as the only and all-sufficient Saviour.45

9. Of God's Purpose of Grace
e believe that Election is the eternal purpose of God, according to which he graciously regenerates, sanctifies, and saves sinners;46 that being perfectly consistent with the free agency of man, it comprehends all the means in connection with the end;47 that it is a most glorious display of God's sovereign goodness, being infinitely free, wise, holy, and unchangeable;48 that it utterly excludes boasting, and promotes humility, love, prayer, praise, trust in God, and active imitation of his free mercy;49 that it encourages the use of means in the highest degree;50 that it may be ascertained by its effects in all who truly believe the gospel;51 that it is the foundation of Christian assurance;52 and that to ascertain it with regard to ourselves demands and deserves the utmost diligence.53

10. Of Sanctification
e believe that Sanctification is the process by which, according to the will of God, we are made partakers of his holiness;54 that it is a progressive work;55 that it is begun in regeneration;56 and that it is carried on in the hearts of believers by the presence and power of the Holy Spirit, the Sealer and Comforter, in the continual use of the appointed means—especially the Word of God, self-examination, self-denial, watchfulness, and prayer.57

11. Of the Perseverance of Saints
e believe that such only are real believers as endure unto the end;58 that their persevering attachment to Christ is the grand mark which distinguishes them from superficial professors;59 that a special Providence watches over their welfare;60 and they are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation.61
12. Of the Harmony of the Law and the Gospel
e believe that the Law of God is the eternal and unchangeable rule of his moral government;62 that it is holy, just, and good;63 and that the inability which the Scriptures ascribe to fallen men to fulfill its precepts arises entirely from their love of sin;64 to deliver them from which, and to restore them through a Mediator to unfeigned obedience to the holy Law, is one great end of the Gospel, and of the means of grace connected with the establishment of the visible Church.65

13. Of a Gospel Church
e believe that a visible Church of Christ is a congregation of baptized believers,66 associated by covenant in the faith and fellowship of the gospel;67 observing the ordinances of Christ;68 governed by his laws,69 and exercising the gifts, rights, and privileges invested in them by his Word;70 that its only scriptural officers are Bishops, or Pastors, and Deacons,71 whose qualifications, claims, and duties are defined in the Epistles to Timothy and Titus.

14. Of Baptism and the Lord's Supper
e believe that Christian Baptism is the immersion in water of a believer,72 into the name of the Father, and Son, and Holy Ghost;73 to show forth, in a solemn and beautiful emblem, our faith in the crucified, buried, and risen Saviour, with its effect in our death to sin and resurrection to a new life;74 that it is prerequisite to the privileges of a Church relation; and to the Lord's Supper,75 in which the members of the Church, by the sacred use of bread and wine, are to commemorate together the dying love of Christ;76 preceded always by solemn self-examination.77

15. Of the Christian Sabbath
e believe that the first day of the week is the Lord's Day, or Christian Sabbath;78 and is to be kept sacred to religious purposes,79 by abstaining from all secular labor and sinful recreations;80 by the devout observance of all the means of grace, both private81 and public;82 and by preparation for that rest that remaineth for the people of God.83

16. Of Civil Government
e believe that civil government is of divine appointment, for the interests and good order of human society;84 and that magistrates are to be prayed for, conscientiously honored and obeyed;85 except only in things opposed to the will of our Lord Jesus Christ86 who is the only Lord of the conscience, and the Prince of the kings of the earth.87

17. Of the Righteous and the Wicked
e believe that there is a radical and essential difference between the righteous and the wicked;88 that such only as through faith are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and sanctified by the Spirit of our God, are truly righteous in his esteem;89 while all such as continue in impenitence and unbelief are in his sight wicked, and under the curse;90 and this distinction holds among men both in and after death.91

18. Of the World to Come
e believe that the end of the world is approaching;92 that at the last day Christ will descend from heaven,93 and raise the dead from the grave to final retribution;94 that a solemn separation will then take place;95 that the wicked will be adjudged to endless punishment, and the righteous to endless joy;96 and that this judgment will fix forever the final state of men in heaven or hell, on principles of righteousness.97


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Just a picture...
(http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Sandra%20Cantu/DSC03975.jpg)

Tracy, this is traditional Baptist theology.  There are many subdivisions of the Baptist theology.  I studied this in seminary.  Before I speak off the top of my head very much, let me go back to some of my books this week (which I love to do).  A few things which are different (not correct or incorrect, just different), most Baptists believe in water immersion of baptism (hence the name) and also from the name of John the Baptizer.  This means you must be of age to make a decision to be a follower of Jesus.  Most Baptists believe you must be a member of their church/denomination, etc. in order to take Holy Communion (likewise on this issue with Catholics).  Some segments of Baptists do not believe women can teach men, thus cannot be preachers (although they can teach Sunday school to males) but they can be missionaries.
But you will see under the religion thread, there are Calvinists, Old State, etc.  Their beliefs differ.  I'll do a little more research if you want.  But I can assure you, on their web sites, they more than likely will not discuss their differences, but will generalize their beliefs to attract people.

Oh, one more thing.  Some segments of Baptists do not believe in divorce under any circumstances.  I have a friend who was a Baptist minister (I couldn't preach from his pulpit, but I could preach to the women in the basement).  Anyway, his wife divorced him because she just didn't want to be a preacher's wife anymore.  The Baptist Associaton kicked him out of the church, totally.  He ended up taking his own life.  How's that for being an Assoication?

I guess I am trying to figure out this church and how it can be a church without a non profit status, without any real members...

I want to know if they believe in a conventional way or in a non conventional/radical way. There are somethings which have been taken off the website.which were there when we first spoke of this church months ago. We found some site that was associated with it and it seemed a bit scary to me and a bit radical. Does anyone remember that?

But something you said, a person must be of age...is nine "of age"? Wasn't someone 9?

I'm not sure about the age thing.  They absolutely (sp) should be a non-profit.  Even non-traditional churches get a 501(3)(c), otherwise, they have to pay all kinds of taxes.
I don't think a non-profit status could be found for this church.  I may be mistaken, but I'm pretty sure.  Maybe it needs to be searched for again or go look at the deeds to see if taxes were paid then.

This was from Blink some months back

"Clover Road Baptist Church

I cant view the actual document, but their is a "charity license", although not a 501c3 for this church on Dec31, 1999, but it has an expiration date 5 months later, but says "active". Can anyone find the actual document?
They are not on pub 78 of the IRS."

The federal id number may be under Victory Missionary or Sovereign Grace or Missionary Baptist.  I would think it would have to be under Clover Road, but . . .

The Victory Missionary Baptist Church of Tracy was looking for assistance because of the failing health of Pastor Scott. Victory then approached Eld. (Lane) Lawless and Sovereign Grace (Missionary Baptist Church of Mountain View CA) to request he consider a pastorate in Tracy. 

The churches voted to merge. In 1981, the members of Victory joined Sovereign Grace, donating their property and assets to the Sovereign Grace Church. The name of the church was changed to Clover Road Baptist Church. Lane has pastored Clover Road Baptist Church of Tracy CA - since 1981.

all the things they church lists as their beliefs is pretty mainstream for many denominations, they differe a little here and there but for the most part this is pretty common.  I don't see anything written there that would make me think they are way off the wall in accordance with any other  Christian church. 

I do remember a site that was a bit weird that was connected to the website.  btw I copies all of that website before they changed it.  I also copied all the posts in the guestbook.  I knew it would all poof. 

some weirdo church and followers is probably not going to publish their weirdo beliefs out where everyone can see it.  they normally hide behind traditional beliefs but do whatever they do in private. Example:  BTK/Dennis Rader, mainstream Lutheran church, weirdo individual.  These weirdo ones are very good at hiding what their real beliefs are. 

There are many serial killers who are very knowledgeable of the Bible but they will twist is all up and mix it up with astrology etc, and end up with some really weird quasi-religious beliefs and then start killing people according to their beliefs.   

DD, this is one time I wish you were wrong.  You're not wrong at all.

sometimes a church will fall under the "mother church" who has the 501 c 3.  And who knows, maybe they lost their 501 c 3, or just never applied for one, but that would be pretty unusual.  one thing their website never had was a list of the members or the board. 

I know this all records of 501 c 3's are public.  They have to make them public, so if they are 501c3 there has to be a record and it is available for public review.  that is the law.

I had posted about this before but will say it again.  this is just too weird.  why would the mountain view church donate all its property and assets to a church over in tracy, are they going to drive over there to church every sunday and any other days they have bible study etc?  and if the member merged, where are they?  the neighbors to the clover road church said only a handful of cars ever showed up, so if that is all they have for member AFTER they merged, just how many did they have BEFORED they merged?  and somewhere I posted about how in one of the church, maybe the san jose one they all got into some riproaring argumet and the personn overseeing the meeting throeatened to call the police on the others.  the people they were trying to unseat in that church were the harris famliy members. 

I can post the original content of the church webpages if anyone wants them.  I copied it all.

DD, I remember that very well, but I think we just moved on to other things.  I know there is something that ain't fish going on here.

From the Articles of Faith of the Arisal Baptist Church where Connie's brother is the pastor:

IN THE EVENT THAT ANY MEMBER OR GROUP OF MEMBERS SHOULD UNDERTAKE TO AMMEND, ADD TO, OR ABROGATE THESE STATEMENTS, THEIR ACTIONS SHALL DECLARE THEM TO BE OUT OF FELLOWSHIP WITH THE CHURCH AND OUT OF HARMONY WITH THESE STATEMENTS AND WILL BE EXCLUDED ON THE GROUNDS OF HAVING DEPARTED FROM THE FAITH OF THIS CHURCH. AS LONG AS TWO OR MORE MEMBERS HOLD TO THE ABOVE STATED PRINCIPLES THEY SHALL CONSTITUTE THE CHURCH, OWN AND HOLD ALL PROPERTIES IN THE NAME OF THE "ALISAL BAPTIST CHURCH, INDEPENDENT MISSIONARY," WORSHIPPING AT 452 WILLIAMS ROAD, SALINAS, CALIFORNIA. IF THE CHURCH SHOULD EVER DISBAND, THE PROPERTY WILL BE SOLD AND THE PROCEEDS GIVEN TO THE ALISAL BAPTIST CHURCH OR CHURCHES OF THE SAME FAITH.

I guess if it disbands, the money goes to the pastor???

DD, this is you and I'm reminding you :>)
I remember watching a video of two people interviewed in front of the church, there was a sign out there and this is the right church you have.  I have the info somewhere will try to find it tomorrow.  Its somewhere in my notes or on a private board, I will try to find it, maybe the video is still up.  anyway the two people interviewed were also both named johnson a man and a woman, I think I remember his name was bob johnson?  let me find that tomorrow.  and they said something about being really worried this was all being brought up and they did not feel safe or something to that affect, it was weird. 

falling asleep so will look for this tomorrow, if I forget, someone remind me.
Nite

well when you are a 501c3 and you quit everything has to go to another 501c3, it can't go to the individuals.

oh thanks, I forgot all about this, this is about the clarkston church with dale johnson.  hmm let me try to find that and I will go post it over in that thread, hmmm wwhat thread was that in?  please excuse the typos my screen is jumping all over again ugh

Gotcha, but if the church disbands, how could it give itself the proceeds?  To bed right now (I'm talking to myself :>)

everything from a 501c3 has to go to another 501c3.  When you file your articles this is one of the things you have to add in there if you want approved.  I have filed many 501c3's in the state of cali.  And one was even a church. 

DD can you please post the information you copied and saved from this churches site? I think it may prove valuable as we try to figure this out

That was great thinking DD to copy all of the stuff of the website!!!! ::MonkeyDance::
You are right...
Everything goes POOF!

I jotted down a couple of names....
And noted one of the guest book entries where it was stated that they like Lane's work....

just got online, yes, I will post it all on here, ... sometime today LOL.  I still have a few things to do around my house before I really get on the board. LOL

I agree.

guestbook posts from the clover road baptist road site.

Church Guestbook Posts - Pastor Lane Lawless
http://www.clover-road-baptist-church.c ... t_book.htm

Date:
2/27/2002
Time:
8:59:04 PM
Remote User:
Comments
THIS IS REALLY NEAT!!! COPIED THE PICTURE, NOW I HAVE A PICTURE OF THAT BEAUTIFUL MAN!! THANKS SO MUCH FOR SENDING THIS CONNIE. NOW I NEED A PICTURE OF YOU!! LOVE TO ALL, YOUR GETTING OLD COUSIN, MARY



Date:
8/1/2002
Time:
4:37:51 PM
Remote User:
Comments
I am looking for an email address for Pastor Lawless. I am his cousin.

Thanks, Duane Dicus

My address is dicus@physics.utexas.edu



Date:
7/4/2005
Time:
5:37:36 AM
Remote User:
Comments
What a warm and welcoming site! Isn't it great that we can share Christ with the world, 24/7? Please visit us at http://christiandatemate.com Thank you!



Date:
6/12/2006
Time:
6:48:32 AM
Remote User:
Comments
Hi, my name is Rose and im jr. college right now at los positas and im looking for one or two female christians to be rommies with. If anyone is interested please email me at rvierra@strongtie.com. Thank you!!!



Date:
6/27/2006
Time:
11:41:08 AM
Remote User:
Comments
Glad to know of another of the same faith. Keep up the good work and God bless you. Elder D. Paul Tuck Sr. - Richmond Hill (near Toronto-Canada) bpulpit@rogers.com



Date:
1/23/2007
Time:
7:00:29 PM
Remote User:
Comments
The Trial of Pastor Jones Judge: Mr. Jones you have been charged with multiple counts of extortion. Your crime spree covers 20 years and thousands of victims. You have defrauded people out of their money with fear and manipulation, telling them they had to tithe 10% of their income to your church and that God would bless them if they did. You also told them that if they didn't tithe God would curse them. How do you plead? Mr. Jones: I plead not guilty your Honor, I have done nothing wrong. I have only preached what the Bible says. In the Bible Abraham tithed to Melchizedek and God blessed him for his faithful giving. The Bible even says he was rich in silver and gold. Judge: Is it not true, Mr. Jones, that in Genesis chapter 13 verse 2 the Bible says Abraham was rich with livestock, silver and gold? Mr. Jones: Yes, you are exactly right, that's what I just told you. Judge: Ok, we read about Abraham being a rich man in chapter 13 but it is not until Genesis chapter 14 that we read about Abraham's tithe to Melchizedek. So Abraham was already a rich man before he tithed to Melchizedek, wasn't he? Mr. Jones: Yes, I suppose you are right. Judge: So his riches were not the result of his tithe to Melchizedek? Mr. Jones: No. Judge: Mr. Jones, you also say God blessed him for his faithful giving. How many times is it recorded that Abraham gave tithes to Melchizedek? Mr. Jones: Well, just once. Judge: So the Bible never said that he gave week after week? Mr. Jones: No it does not. Judge: Where did Abraham get the things that he gave to Melchizedek? Mr. Jones: Well the Bible says it was from the plunders of war? Judge: So you are telling me that he gave from the plunders of war? Mr. Jones: Yes that's what the Bible says. Judge: So he basically took things that were not really his in the first place and gave them as the tithe? Mr. Jones: That is what the scripture seems to indicate. Judge: Is it recorded that he ever took anything from his own possessions and tithed them to Melchizedek or anyone else? Mr. Jones: I guess not Judge: You guess not, you are a Pastor and you are only guessing, is it or is it not written that he ever gave any of his own possessions as a tithe to anyone? Mr. Jones: No it is not written anywhere that I have seen. Judge: Is it recorded as to what exactly Abraham did give Melchizedek? Mr. Jones: I believe it says plunder? Judge: So plunder could be any number of things? Mr. Jones: Yes, I suppose Judge: It could have been food, cattle, sheep, the people's possessions or any number of things. It does not say it was all money correct? Mr. Jones: Yes you are correct, it does not say just money Judge: As a matter of fact money is never mentioned in that account at all is that correct Mr. Jones? Mr. Jones: Yes your Honor, money is never mentioned just goods and food and people. Judge: So there is no way you can say with any certainty that Abraham in fact gave Melchizedek any money at all? Mr. Jones: That is right. Judge: I only have one last question for you Mr. Jones, did God command Abraham to give this plunder tithe to Melchizedek? Mr. Jones: No, it appears that he did this voluntarily. Judge: So are you trying to tell me that because of this voluntary, one time gift by Abraham, that may not have even consisted of money, all Christians everywhere are obligated to bring 10% of their weekly paycheck to a local church? Judge: Considering all the evidence I would say you are beyond any shadow of a doubt guilty of deliberately trying to make the scriptures says things they have not said for financial gain. Mr. Jones: Ok your Honor, I can see how foolish I was to try and use the story of Melchizedeck to try and get the people to tithe money. But there are many other verses that will support my belief on tithing. Jacob said he would give God 10% of everything. I think we should follow his example. Judge: Let's see what Jacob said. Please read the verse you are talking about for me Mr. Jones. Mr. Jones: In Genesis chapter 28 starting at verse 20 it says. Jacob vowed a vow, saying, "If God will be with me, and will keep me in this way that I go, and will give me bread to eat, and clothing to put on, so that I come again to my father's house in peace, and Yahweh will be my God, then this stone, which I have set up for a pillar, will be God's house. Of all that you will give me I will surely give the tenth to you." Judge: You said we should follow Jacobs's example, is that right Mr. Jones? Mr. Jones: Yes that is right, he vowed to give a tenth and we should too. Judge: Let me point out one thing for you Mr. Jones, Jacob said he would Give God a tenth, ONLY if He blessed him first. So as you said previously, we should follow Jacob's example and tell God that we will only give him a tenth if he blesses us first. Is that right? Mr. Jones: That is not what I meant. Judge: What did you mean then? Mr. Jones: That we should give God a tenth also. Judge: There you go again, trying to make the scripture say what you want it to say for your benefit. I would also like you to tell me the scriptures that say that Jacob kept his vow with God. I would also like to know where he gave the tenth to because there was no temple or levites to give it to at that time. Mr. Jones: I can not think of any scriptures that say where or if he ever tithed after his vow. Judge: It seems fairly obvious to me that Jacob made a voluntary and conditional vow to God. This in no way can be used as a reason to demand others to bring their income to you or any other place. Mr. Jones: I do have a few more scriptures that I believe will show that we are supposed to tithe. Judge: You have not said anything yet to convince me one little bit that people are obligated to tithe money to the local churches and that you were justified in what you were doing. You have taken scripture and misapplied it to your beliefs and for your gain. But in order to be fair to you I will allow you to present more evidence. Mr. Jones: In the book of Malachi chapter 3 starting at verse 8 it says, will a man rob God? yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, In what have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings. Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation. Bring ye all the tithes into the store-house, that there may be food in my house, and prove me now with this, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it. So you see your Honor, we are commanded to bring the tithes into the storehouse or God will curse us. Judge: Answer me this Mr. Jones, were you aware that God never required anyone to tithe money? Mr. Jones: No I didn't know that. Judge: The tithe spoken of here was always edible products never money. Mr. Jones: well your Honor that is because they didn't have money at the time so God had them tithe food instead. Judge: Not true, money is first mentioned in Genesis and Malachi was written hundreds of years later. God had them bring food in so that the levites, the fatherless and widows may eat and be satisfied. The tithe was used mainly to take care of people. Also notice it says in the verse you quoted, that there may be food in my house. The food was the tithe. How do you completely overlook the word food in those verses? Mr. Jones: I don't know Judge: I also want you to know that these verses speak to people under the Old Testament law. As you may or may not know Jesus fulfilled the law, it is no longer binding. Tithing was part of that law that has been abolished. Judge: Once again you have tried to completely take a scripture out of context and apply it to others for your benefit. Can you give me a single scripture where God changed the tithe from food to money? Mr. Jones: I do not know of any. Judge: So if God never changed it from food to money who did? Mr. Jones: Man must have. Judge: So far all you have done Mr. Jones is take Old Testament scriptures out of context and try to apply it to believers under the New Covenant. Is this all the proof you have? Mr. Jones: I do have a New Testament scripture that will show that Jesus told us to tithe. Judge: Ok let me hear it. Mr. Jones: Jesus said in Matthew 23:23 "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint, dill, and cumin, and have left undone the weightier matters of the law: justice, mercy, and faith. But you ought to have done these, and not to have left the other undone. See Jesus said we should be tithing. Judge: Let me ask you a question, who was Jesus talking to? Mr. Jones: The scripture says the scribes and Pharisees. Judge: Are you a scribe or Pharisee? Mr. Jones: Of course not. Judge: Jesus also said in that passage, you have left undone the weightier matters of the law. Are we under the law Mr. Jones? Mr. Jones: No. Judge: Why not? Mr. Jones: Because Jesus fulfilled it. Judge: When did Jesus fulfill the law? Mr. Jones: When He was crucified. Judge: So the law was still in effect until Jesus death? Mr. Jones: That is correct. Judge: I think you know where I am going with this don't you? Mr. Jones: Yes your Honor. Since Jesus had not yet been crucified and the law was still binding the Pharisees were required to tithe because it was part of the law. Once the law ended, tithing ended also. Judge: I want you to take a look at that verse again. Also tell me, what were they tithing? Mr. Jones: The scripture says it was mint, dill and cumin. Judge: Is money mentioned? Mr. Jones: No it was not. Judge: Once again it was edible products that they were tithing, not money. Do you have anything else you would like to say? Mr. Jones: If people only tithed edible products like the scripture says, then how would the church survive? We have our mortgage payment, utility bills, my salary and a host of other things that we have to pay each week. We depend on the money from the people. Judge: The need does not justify the means. In other words, just because you have all these debts does not give you the right to twist and manipulate scripture and cause people to give under fear of being cursed by God to meet your needs. In closing, let me recap a few things for you Mr. Jones. The tithe was never money; the tithe was an Old Testament law, which is no longer binding. When it was binding the tithe was used to take care of people, not buildings. We are under a new covenant now. Paul instructs the Corinthian believers how they are to give. He says in second Corinthians chapter 9 verse 7, Let each man give according as he has determined in his heart; not grudgingly, or under compulsion; for God loves a cheerful giver. So each believer is supposed to give as he or she has determined in his or her heart. If you are trying to make people give under the threat of being cursed or any other reason you are wrong. Someone can not give cheerfully if they are being forced to give. If your church can not survive on freewill offerings maybe God is not part of your church at all. Mr. Jones: I never realized all these things, I have always been taught that we had to tithe money to the local church and that is what I have always taught. I can see now that I was completely wrong. I did not study the scripture for myself, I only took mans word for it. Yes I am guilty. I will not teach this error anymore. Judge: Mr. Jones, I can see that you have done this in ignorance and are repentant, this court will not hold you accountable. It is your responsibility to know the truth. I would advise you and everyone else in this courtroom to really start studying the Bible and seeking God on the subject of tithing and your eyes will be open. Do not just take mans word any longer. Start seeking God as to how and where He would have you give. Court adjourned.

continued

Church Guestbook Posts - Pastor Lane Lawless
Date:
1/23/2007
Time:
7:00:50 PM
Remote User:
Comments
The Trial of Pastor Jones Judge: Mr. Jones you have been charged with multiple counts of extortion. Your crime spree covers 20 years and thousands of victims. You have defrauded people out of their money with fear and manipulation, telling them they had to tithe 10% of their income to your church and that God would bless them if they did. You also told them that if they didn't tithe God would curse them. How do you plead? Mr. Jones: I plead not guilty your Honor, I have done nothing wrong. I have only preached what the Bible says. In the Bible Abraham tithed to Melchizedek and God blessed him for his faithful giving. The Bible even says he was rich in silver and gold. Judge: Is it not true, Mr. Jones, that in Genesis chapter 13 verse 2 the Bible says Abraham was rich with livestock, silver and gold? Mr. Jones: Yes, you are exactly right, that's what I just told you. Judge: Ok, we read about Abraham being a rich man in chapter 13 but it is not until Genesis chapter 14 that we read about Abraham's tithe to Melchizedek. So Abraham was already a rich man before he tithed to Melchizedek, wasn't he? Mr. Jones: Yes, I suppose you are right. Judge: So his riches were not the result of his tithe to Melchizedek? Mr. Jones: No. Judge: Mr. Jones, you also say God blessed him for his faithful giving. How many times is it recorded that Abraham gave tithes to Melchizedek? Mr. Jones: Well, just once. Judge: So the Bible never said that he gave week after week? Mr. Jones: No it does not. Judge: Where did Abraham get the things that he gave to Melchizedek? Mr. Jones: Well the Bible says it was from the plunders of war? Judge: So you are telling me that he gave from the plunders of war? Mr. Jones: Yes that's what the Bible says. Judge: So he basically took things that were not really his in the first place and gave them as the tithe? Mr. Jones: That is what the scripture seems to indicate. Judge: Is it recorded that he ever took anything from his own possessions and tithed them to Melchizedek or anyone else? Mr. Jones: I guess not Judge: You guess not, you are a Pastor and you are only guessing, is it or is it not written that he ever gave any of his own possessions as a tithe to anyone? Mr. Jones: No it is not written anywhere that I have seen. Judge: Is it recorded as to what exactly Abraham did give Melchizedek? Mr. Jones: I believe it says plunder? Judge: So plunder could be any number of things? Mr. Jones: Yes, I suppose Judge: It could have been food, cattle, sheep, the people's possessions or any number of things. It does not say it was all money correct? Mr. Jones: Yes you are correct, it does not say just money Judge: As a matter of fact money is never mentioned in that account at all is that correct Mr. Jones? Mr. Jones: Yes your Honor, money is never mentioned just goods and food and people. Judge: So there is no way you can say with any certainty that Abraham in fact gave Melchizedek any money at all? Mr. Jones: That is right. Judge: I only have one last question for you Mr. Jones, did God command Abraham to give this plunder tithe to Melchizedek? Mr. Jones: No, it appears that he did this voluntarily. Judge: So are you trying to tell me that because of this voluntary, one time gift by Abraham, that may not have even consisted of money, all Christians everywhere are obligated to bring 10% of their weekly paycheck to a local church? Judge: Considering all the evidence I would say you are beyond any shadow of a doubt guilty of deliberately trying to make the scriptures says things they have not said for financial gain. Mr. Jones: Ok your Honor, I can see how foolish I was to try and use the story of Melchizedeck to try and get the people to tithe money. But there are many other verses that will support my belief on tithing. Jacob said he would give God 10% of everything. I think we should follow his example. Judge: Let's see what Jacob said. Please read the verse you are talking about for me Mr. Jones. Mr. Jones: In Genesis chapter 28 starting at verse 20 it says. Jacob vowed a vow, saying, "If God will be with me, and will keep me in this way that I go, and will give me bread to eat, and clothing to put on, so that I come again to my father's house in peace, and Yahweh will be my God, then this stone, which I have set up for a pillar, will be God's house. Of all that you will give me I will surely give the tenth to you." Judge: You said we should follow Jacobs's example, is that right Mr. Jones? Mr. Jones: Yes that is right, he vowed to give a tenth and we should too. Judge: Let me point out one thing for you Mr. Jones, Jacob said he would Give God a tenth, ONLY if He blessed him first. So as you said previously, we should follow Jacob's example and tell God that we will only give him a tenth if he blesses us first. Is that right? Mr. Jones: That is not what I meant. Judge: What did you mean then? Mr. Jones: That we should give God a tenth also. Judge: There you go again, trying to make the scripture say what you want it to say for your benefit. I would also like you to tell me the scriptures that say that Jacob kept his vow with God. I would also like to know where he gave the tenth to because there was no temple or levites to give it to at that time. Mr. Jones: I can not think of any scriptures that say where or if he ever tithed after his vow. Judge: It seems fairly obvious to me that Jacob made a voluntary and conditional vow to God. This in no way can be used as a reason to demand others to bring their income to you or any other place. Mr. Jones: I do have a few more scriptures that I believe will show that we are supposed to tithe. Judge: You have not said anything yet to convince me one little bit that people are obligated to tithe money to the local churches and that you were justified in what you were doing. You have taken scripture and misapplied it to your beliefs and for your gain. But in order to be fair to you I will allow you to present more evidence. Mr. Jones: In the book of Malachi chapter 3 starting at verse 8 it says, will a man rob God? yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, In what have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings. Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation. Bring ye all the tithes into the store-house, that there may be food in my house, and prove me now with this, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it. So you see your Honor, we are commanded to bring the tithes into the storehouse or God will curse us. Judge: Answer me this Mr. Jones, were you aware that God never required anyone to tithe money? Mr. Jones: No I didn't know that. Judge: The tithe spoken of here was always edible products never money. Mr. Jones: well your Honor that is because they didn't have money at the time so God had them tithe food instead. Judge: Not true, money is first mentioned in Genesis and Malachi was written hundreds of years later. God had them bring food in so that the levites, the fatherless and widows may eat and be satisfied. The tithe was used mainly to take care of people. Also notice it says in the verse you quoted, that there may be food in my house. The food was the tithe. How do you completely overlook the word food in those verses? Mr. Jones: I don't know Judge: I also want you to know that these verses speak to people under the Old Testament law. As you may or may not know Jesus fulfilled the law, it is no longer binding. Tithing was part of that law that has been abolished. Judge: Once again you have tried to completely take a scripture out of context and apply it to others for your benefit. Can you give me a single scripture where God changed the tithe from food to money? Mr. Jones: I do not know of any. Judge: So if God never changed it from food to money who did? Mr. Jones: Man must have. Judge: So far all you have done Mr. Jones is take Old Testament scriptures out of context and try to apply it to believers under the New Covenant. Is this all the proof you have? Mr. Jones: I do have a New Testament scripture that will show that Jesus told us to tithe. Judge: Ok let me hear it. Mr. Jones: Jesus said in Matthew 23:23 "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint, dill, and cumin, and have left undone the weightier matters of the law: justice, mercy, and faith. But you ought to have done these, and not to have left the other undone. See Jesus said we should be tithing. Judge: Let me ask you a question, who was Jesus talking to? Mr. Jones: The scripture says the scribes and Pharisees. Judge: Are you a scribe or Pharisee? Mr. Jones: Of course not. Judge: Jesus also said in that passage, you have left undone the weightier matters of the law. Are we under the law Mr. Jones? Mr. Jones: No. Judge: Why not? Mr. Jones: Because Jesus fulfilled it. Judge: When did Jesus fulfill the law? Mr. Jones: When He was crucified. Judge: So the law was still in effect until Jesus death? Mr. Jones: That is correct. Judge: I think you know where I am going with this don't you? Mr. Jones: Yes your Honor. Since Jesus had not yet been crucified and the law was still binding the Pharisees were required to tithe because it was part of the law. Once the law ended, tithing ended also. Judge: I want you to take a look at that verse again. Also tell me, what were they tithing? Mr. Jones: The scripture says it was mint, dill and cumin. Judge: Is money mentioned? Mr. Jones: No it was not. Judge: Once again it was edible products that they were tithing, not money. Do you have anything else you would like to say? Mr. Jones: If people only tithed edible products like the scripture says, then how would the church survive? We have our mortgage payment, utility bills, my salary and a host of other things that we have to pay each week. We depend on the money from the people. Judge: The need does not justify the means. In other words, just because you have all these debts does not give you the right to twist and manipulate scripture and cause people to give under fear of being cursed by God to meet your needs. In closing, let me recap a few things for you Mr. Jones. The tithe was never money; the tithe was an Old Testament law, which is no longer binding. When it was binding the tithe was used to take care of people, not buildings. We are under a new covenant now. Paul instructs the Corinthian believers how they are to give. He says in second Corinthians chapter 9 verse 7, Let each man give according as he has determined in his heart; not grudgingly, or under compulsion; for God loves a cheerful giver. So each believer is supposed to give as he or she has determined in his or her heart. If you are trying to make people give under the threat of being cursed or any other reason you are wrong. Someone can not give cheerfully if they are being forced to give. If your church can not survive on freewill offerings maybe God is not part of your church at all. Mr. Jones: I never realized all these things, I have always been taught that we had to tithe money to the local church and that is what I have always taught. I can see now that I was completely wrong. I did not study the scripture for myself, I only took mans word for it. Yes I am guilty. I will not teach this error anymore. Judge: Mr. Jones, I can see that you have done this in ignorance and are repentant, this court will not hold you accountable. It is your responsibility to know the truth. I would advise you and everyone else in this courtroom to really start studying the Bible and seeking God on the subject of tithing and your eyes will be open. Do not just take mans word any longer. Start seeking God as to how and where He would have you give. Court adjourned.

continued

Church Guestbook Posts - Pastor Lane Lawless
Date:
4/4/2008
Time:
9:01:46 AM
Remote User:
Comments
Dear Bro. Lawless, I just wanted to stop by and thank you for the support you continue to be to the Friendship Missionary Baptist Church (FMBC) and Bro. Joe Padilla. As a member of FMBC I am always encouraged to know we have such wonderful friends in Christ supporting the work. Bro. Greg Thomas



Date:
4/7/2009
Time:
10:32:21 AM
Remote User:
Comments
Rest in Peace little Sandra Cantu



Date:
4/7/2009
Time:
11:11:36 AM
Remote User:
Comments
Proverbs 3 5-6 I have read a book called The Shack by WM. Paul Young. There is no excuse for the poor child Sandra It breaks my heart. If you read this book it may help with understanding. I am so sorry to the family and my families prayers are with you



Date:
4/7/2009
Time:
11:13:02 AM
Remote User:
Comments
Why is Pastor Lane Lawless living in a trailer park? is he still married? why are the police searching the church... don't any of you member know how to make a decent webpage?



Date:
4/7/2009
Time:
11:28:53 AM
Remote User:
Comments
I am so sick of seeing these predators showing up on Megan’s Law sites in my community, near schools and parks. Anyone who abuses a child is a monster and should be put down like a rabid dog. There is no rehabilitation and we as citizens must demand that these monsters be locked up for ever the first time. In 1933 Brook Hart was murdered and the citizens of California lynched the two men responsible. The Governor at the time took no legal action against the mob as the rest of the country approved. Who is letting these vial animals roam free in our streets? What has happened to our country, we used to take care of our own. When is enough of this, Pauly Class, Adam Walsh, how many more little angels have to be torn apart, before we take to the streets and do what our so called leaders have so stomach to do. If abusing a child is not justification for the death penalty, what on earth is? God be with the Cantu Family, and bless and welcome this little angel into your heaven. Jesus is lord and justice will come.



Date:
4/7/2009
Time:
11:30:31 AM
Remote User:
Comments
I am so sick of seeing these predators showing up on Megan’s Law sites in my community, near schools and parks. Anyone who abuses a child is a monster and should be put down like a rabid dog. There is no rehabilitation and we as citizens must demand that these monsters be locked up for ever the first time. In 1933 Brook Hart was murdered and the citizens of California lynched the two men responsible. The Governor at the time took no legal action against the mob as the rest of the country approved. Who is letting these vial animals roam free in our streets? What has happened to our country, we used to take care of our own. When is enough of this, Pauly Class, Adam Walsh, how many more little angels have to be torn apart, before we take to the streets and do what our so called leaders have so stomach to do. If abusing a child is not justification for the death penalty, what on earth is? God be with the Cantu Family, and bless and welcome this little angel into your heaven. Jesus is lord and justice will come.



Date:
4/7/2009
Time:
11:41:59 AM
Remote User:
Comments
What happened to Sandra?



Date:
4/7/2009
Time:
12:14:07 PM
Remote User:
Comments
The links on this site are not properly working.



Date:
4/7/2009
Time:
12:15:28 PM
Remote User:
Comments
Why was the pastor's house surrounded last night? Now searching your church?!? This man has been your pastor for almost 30 years....do you all not know him?? I sincerely hope your Pastor had nothing to do with little Sandra's murder.



Date:
4/7/2009
Time:
12:25:06 PM
Remote User:
Comments
Maybe the Devil has been hiding in your own church! If Pastor Lawless murdered this beautiful child I hope he rots in HELL.



Date:
4/7/2009
Time:
12:34:59 PM
Remote User:
Comments
Innocent til proven guilty



Date:
4/7/2009
Time:
12:35:06 PM
Remote User:
Comments
ur a sick man



Date:
4/7/2009
Time:
12:42:27 PM
Remote User:
Comments
Let the law do it's work. If thepastor had anything to do with this the law and the lord will take care of him. The lord forgives, but this will not be forgiven.



Date:
4/7/2009
Time:
12:43:44 PM
Remote User:
Comments
What is this book about? Proverbs 3 5-6 I have read a book called The Shack by WM. Paul Young. There is no excuse for the poor child Sandra It breaks my heart. If you read this book it may help with understanding. I am so sorry to the family and my families prayers are with you



Date:
4/7/2009
Time:
12:44:06 PM
Remote User:
Comments
I have a feeling it's not Pastor Lawless they're looking at but a grandson. His children are old enough to have kids in their 20's.



Date:
4/7/2009
Time:
12:57:13 PM
Remote User:
Comments
Does a grandson reside with Pastor Lawless? Is there a criminal history? If so, don't tell me the family wasn't aware.....no cop outs allowed!!

continued

 Church Guestbook Posts - Pastor Lane Lawless
Date:
4/7/2009
Time:
1:44:04 PM
Remote User:
Comments
Hmmm. seems some locals noted how disturbing Pastor Lawless' over-the-top tear jerking and word gulping when discussing this little child, Chandra. A little too emotionally connected to her, doncha' know? Reminds us of many of other cases connected to churches, the BTK serial killer and that little girl killed in Novato back in the late 1980's being invited into a church she was passing for an ice cream. That invitation resulted in her rape/murder and dumped with church papers in garbage sack. I know when someone introduces themselves as a Pastor, Preacher, Priest or Minister the first instinct is to run for an hours long rape victim shower.



Date:
4/7/2009
Time:
1:47:03 PM
Remote User:
Comments
May the person(s) responsible for this senseless act burn in hell for eternity.



Date:
4/7/2009
Time:
1:58:29 PM
Remote User:
Comments
<<True Christianity teaches that there is only one mediator between God and man Christ Jesus. But the Catholic church observes the so-called Mass. The word mass means, dismissal. Here is where the priest dismisses the sins of the people through the sacraments.>> Who taught you this? NOT true! "Mass" in Latin means "a sending out". The mass ends with "The mass is ended. Go in peace to love and serve the Lord." It has nothing to do with dismissing sins. It has to do with leaving a worship service and then practicing Christianity in our daily lives - loving and serving the Lord. I don't expect you to stop hating Catholicism but if you want to be credible you should at least get the right information.



Date:
4/7/2009
Time:
2:04:04 PM
Remote User:
Comments



Date:
4/7/2009
Time:
2:04:23 PM
Remote User:
Comments



Date:
4/7/2009
Time:
2:11:22 PM
Remote User:
Comments
scary forum



Date:
4/7/2009
Time:
2:15:54 PM
Remote User:
Comments
I've seen this sort of thing before. I hope the webmaster closes this forum before it gets ugly. Rest in Peace Sandra. God Bless You.



Date:
4/7/2009
Time:
2:24:33 PM
Remote User:
Comments
Very disturbing to think that a man preaching the good word could in any way be involved in such an horrific crime. God Bless Sandra and he family.



Date:
4/7/2009
Time:
2:25:22 PM
Remote User:
Comments
Sick Sick Sick man! The pastor must be guily for them to tape off the church even before they deicovered the body... This man should suffer CRUEL pain........... If he is guily Gid knows and I hope he rots in hell for eternity.



Date:
4/7/2009
Time:
2:33:10 PM
Remote User:
Comments
You can't judge him until there is evidence that leads to him, pray for the family, go is going to get whoever done such an awfull thing to one of his children. too much madness going on, cop killers, pedafills running wild, GM, AIG? and a host of other. people we have to pray.



Date:
4/7/2009
Time:
2:38:55 PM
Remote User:
Comments
Please explain!! Does this church run an outreach for recovering drug addicts or pedophiles (sp)?? If a member ran to the church and confessed to this crime to the minister, could the minister with hold this info? Could that be why they want to search the church? Could the minister have something to do with this? What is happening to our country? Why all these children? God help us all, and pray for this poor family.



Date:
4/7/2009
Time:
2:58:38 PM
Remote User:
Comments



Date:
4/7/2009
Time:
3:04:24 PM
Remote User:
Comments
The last post asked, "What is happening to our country?" Well it would appear that our nation is reaping the rotten fruit of the evil seed that has been sown for multiple decades. Our country is infatuated with murder as depicted on countless television shows each evening, we flock to see movies like Friday the 13th, Silence of the Lambs, and thousands of other such moral filth, and men and women may now go online in the privacy of their own homes to look at millions of websites containing the most abhorrent forms of debauchery (including child porn, rape, etc) at any time of day and with complete anonymity. If even a small portion of these people (especially men) decide to act out what they have been looking at and thinking about each day, then this would account for hundreds, if not thousands, of criminal acts against innocent children each month. If this were not true, why do companies spend billions of dollars on 30 second TV ads every year??? Because images and messages DO convince 'some' people to go out and buy their products. How much more might hours and hours spent watching violence and immorality on TV, DVD, and the internet influence a variety of individuals to fantasize about what it might be like to actually 'experience' what they have only fantasized about up until that time. What is happening to our country? Sadly, we are reaping what we have sown and it appears that even the most innocent in our country, children (born and unborn), are the victims of the evil that we have so willingly embraced. May the Lord God Almighty have mercy on our land, but may He also discipline and rebuke a people that have forsaken Him and run after every manner of evil and perversion with a continual lust for more. Lastly, may the true church of Jesus Christ be on it knees for our country as we see more and more of these wicked acts committed against our children.



Date:
4/7/2009
Time:
3:04:36 PM
Remote User:
Comments
The last post asked, "What is happening to our country?" Well it would appear that our nation is reaping the rotten fruit of the evil seed that has been sown for multiple decades. Our country is infatuated with murder as depicted on countless television shows each evening, we flock to see movies like Friday the 13th, Silence of the Lambs, and thousands of other such moral filth, and men and women may now go online in the privacy of their own homes to look at millions of websites containing the most abhorrent forms of debauchery (including child porn, rape, etc) at any time of day and with complete anonymity. If even a small portion of these people (especially men) decide to act out what they have been looking at and thinking about each day, then this would account for hundreds, if not thousands, of criminal acts against innocent children each month. If this were not true, why do companies spend billions of dollars on 30 second TV ads every year??? Because images and messages DO convince 'some' people to go out and buy their products. How much more might hours and hours spent watching violence and immorality on TV, DVD, and the internet influence a variety of individuals to fantasize about what it might be like to actually 'experience' what they have only fantasized about up until that time. What is happening to our country? Sadly, we are reaping what we have sown and it appears that even the most innocent in our country, children (born and unborn), are the victims of the evil that we have so willingly embraced. May the Lord God Almighty have mercy on our land, but may He also discipline and rebuke a people that have forsaken Him and run after every manner of evil and perversion with a continual lust for more. Lastly, may the true church of Jesus Christ be on it knees for our country as we see more and more of these wicked acts committed against our children.



Date:
4/7/2009
Time:
3:04:49 PM
Remote User:
Comments
The last post asked, "What is happening to our country?" Well it would appear that our nation is reaping the rotten fruit of the evil seed that has been sown for multiple decades. Our country is infatuated with murder as depicted on countless television shows each evening, we flock to see movies like Friday the 13th, Silence of the Lambs, and thousands of other such moral filth, and men and women may now go online in the privacy of their own homes to look at millions of websites containing the most abhorrent forms of debauchery (including child porn, rape, etc) at any time of day and with complete anonymity. If even a small portion of these people (especially men) decide to act out what they have been looking at and thinking about each day, then this would account for hundreds, if not thousands, of criminal acts against innocent children each month. If this were not true, why do companies spend billions of dollars on 30 second TV ads every year??? Because images and messages DO convince 'some' people to go out and buy their products. How much more might hours and hours spent watching violence and immorality on TV, DVD, and the internet influence a variety of individuals to fantasize about what it might be like to actually 'experience' what they have only fantasized about up until that time. What is happening to our country? Sadly, we are reaping what we have sown and it appears that even the most innocent in our country, children (born and unborn), are the victims of the evil that we have so willingly embraced. May the Lord God Almighty have mercy on our land, but may He also discipline and rebuke a people that have forsaken Him and run after every manner of evil and perversion with a continual lust for more. Lastly, may the true church of Jesus Christ be on it knees for our country as we see more and more of these wicked acts committed against our children.



Date:
4/7/2009
Time:
3:11:10 PM
Remote User:
Comments
Sorry about the duplicates, my browser didn't show that it was saving the text.



Date:
4/7/2009
Time:
3:20:23 PM
Remote User:
Comments
wow.................!!!!!!!



Date:
4/7/2009
Time:
3:20:45 PM
Remote User:
Comments
Wow. This Lawless guy...



Date:
4/7/2009
Time:
3:32:44 PM
Remote User:
Comments
Only god know's.. but if you did commit this hanless act? i hope to god you burn in suffer in this world and may you and your family be cursed 1,000 times, you non-believer!!! You call yourself a Christian? You coward



Date:
4/7/2009
Time:
3:45:14 PM
Remote User:
Comments
If he had any knowledge of what happened to this child, lord help us all, if this is what this world is coming to.



Date:
4/7/2009
Time:
4:15:15 PM
Remote User:
Comments
My heart and prayers go out to the family, friends and loved one's of Sandra Cantu. I hope this so called Man of God had nothing to do with what happened to that sweet innocent angel Sandra Cantu. If he did I pray that God will not have mercy on him, and that he will be punished to the fullest extent the law allows and than some. God wants us to forgive but in a case like this I don't see how anyone can. I pray Sandra will rest in peace and God will comfort her Mother and family in their time of need.



Date:
4/7/2009
Time:
4:43:03 PM
Remote User:
Comments
Let us just pray that justice may be served. May the Lords loving arms embrace this family as they go through this time. "Vengeance is mine saith the Lord."



Date:
4/7/2009
Time:
4:44:43 PM
Remote User:
Comments
Is this not America? People are presumed innocent until proven guilty. If this pastor and/or his family had anything to do with the sad and tragic death of Sandra Cantu, it will be found through investigation by the authorities. Prosecution and punishment will then happen. Until such time, please do not judge and instead pray for the Cantu family for their tragic, tragic loss. They really need your prayers.



Date:
4/7/2009
Time:
5:15:44 PM
Remote User:
Comments
re: Is this not america.....I agree with what you say......Is this not America? People are presumed innocent until proven guilty. If this pastor and/or his family had anything to do with the sad and tragic death of Sandra Cantu, it will be found through investigation by the authorities. Prosecution and punishment will then happen. Until such time, please do not judge and instead pray for the Cantu family for their tragic, tragic loss. They really need your prayers....except for this last part about praying...i do not beleive in prayer but action on everyones part to make our world more civilized....safe for our children and each other



Date:
4/7/2009
Time:
5:17:07 PM
Remote User:
Comments
Oh my! This could shake a lot of peoples faith if this Pastor had anything to do with this horrible horrible crime. My heart goes out to the Cantu's.



Date:
4/7/2009
Time:
5:20:51 PM
Remote User:
Comments
There are fifty registered sexual predators living around Sandra's area.



Date:
4/7/2009
Time:
5:24:09 PM
Remote User:
Comments
funny, before today there were about 6 post in 8 years. doubt this site has a webmaster

continued

Church Guestbook Posts - Pastor Lane Lawless
Date:
4/7/2009
Time:
5:51:03 PM
Remote User:
Comments
Innocent until proven guilty.



Date:
4/7/2009
Time:
5:54:36 PM
Remote User:
Comments
w



Date:
4/7/2009
Time:
6:27:02 PM
Remote User:
Comments
you god damn christians,let god decide who sould go to hell for ever;it seems as if you are not sure that there is a god.churches are a breeding ground for pedophiles for good reason: the kids that frequent them.do not indict the pastor yet



Date:
4/7/2009
Time:
6:37:50 PM
Remote User:
Comments
This is such a horrible story. I pray that they catch the person that murdered Sandra Cantu. Whoever did this is a monster.



Date:
4/7/2009
Time:
6:38:18 PM
Remote User:
Comments
the church is always there for you when you need it;that what you think! peace and love for every one and dont allow your rage to degenerate into vengeance



Date:
4/7/2009
Time:
6:38:43 PM
Remote User:
Comments
Dear Sir or Madam, Beginning a post with "You G__ d__ Christians" is not the best way to win an audience, or to express your anger for that matter. I'm a Christian, I have judged no individual in this event, and I trust that God will bring the person(s) responsible to justice. I also pray that Gpd may spare other children from such horrible crimes.



Date:
4/7/2009
Time:
6:38:48 PM
Remote User:
Comments
If we should find out that the murderer of Sandra is someone who is affiliated with this church, it is important for everyone to remember that evil people hide themselves among good people. Evil people disguise themselves as good Christian people, boy scout leaders, etc. What better place for wolves to hide than among sheep? That does not mean that Christians are evil, it means that evil people hide themselves among Christians. Please do not base your choice to believe in God on these wolves in sheep clothing. If you have; lied once, stolen once, lusted once, or broken any of the other 10 commandments, you have sinned against God’s law. We have each sinned and, according to God, the price of our sin is death. Jesus paid the price for our sins so that if we believe in him and trust him, we are no longer guilty in God’s eyes and can spend eternity in the perfect world that he has waiting for us. A world where there will be no sin, no more little children being murdered, no more evil.



Date:
4/7/2009
Time:
6:39:43 PM
Remote User:
Comments
That "God" may spare them (type-o)



Date:
4/7/2009
Time:
6:48:34 PM
Remote User:
Comments
My heart sank when I found out that Sandra was gone forever now. I was wishing i heard wrong but I didn’t. This is horrible! I pray that they find the monster that did this to Sandra. I have an 8 year old girl so this story hit really close to home. Parents please watch your children. Always know where they are. My heart goes out to her mother, father, grandparents, and all of her family. It's not the time to blame them. They are going through enough with the loss of this beautiful child. Let's keep them in our prayers. RIP Sandra.



Date:
4/7/2009
Time:
6:52:45 PM
Remote User:
Comments
i am not in there to make friends just think about the facts, its proven pedophiles lay in wait in churches for hundreds of years or more.bingo



Date:
4/7/2009
Time:
7:06:10 PM
Remote User:
Comments
lets relax and wait for the police to do its job;abolish the death penalty for the sake of god.



Date:
4/7/2009
Time:
7:11:04 PM
Remote User:
Comments
would sandra want anyone to burn in hell!



Date:
4/7/2009
Time:
7:13:48 PM
Remote User:
Comments
by the way it's not god but the police that will bring the killer to justice.



Date:
4/7/2009
Time:
7:28:06 PM
Remote User:
Comments
The Clover Road Baptist Church is full of wonderful Christian people. Bro. Lawless is one of them. I pray that the people who are writing all of these bad comments on this forum come back when he is cleared of any wrong doing and write their apology, this is America. We need to let the authorities doing what they do best. Sandra's story is very sad and heart wrenching, everyone that hears about feels for her family and friends. Bro. Lawless also has family and friends. Please allow his family the decent respect to allow time for the facts to pan out before making aqusations. Thank you all!



Date:
4/7/2009
Time:
7:36:52 PM
Remote User:
Comments
Innocent until proven guilty, but Sir Lawless, why did you drive away?? Anyone know where the irrigation pond is on Google Maps? How far from clover?



Date:
4/7/2009
Time:
8:03:53 PM
Remote User:
Comments



Date:
4/7/2009
Time:
8:19:29 PM
Remote User:
Comments
Luke 23:21



Date:
4/7/2009
Time:
8:22:17 PM
Remote User:
Comments
The pond is only 2 miles from the church. I would hope a supposed man of the cloth is not connected but it wouldn't be the first time that a wolf dressed in sheep's clothing, now would it?



Date:
4/7/2009
Time:
8:26:18 PM
Remote User:
Comments
For those that are quick to stand up for these two, ask yourself one question - Why would the wife of a pastor say "Why would anyone take such a sweet little girl and abuse her and then murder her?"? It has NEVER been reported that little Sandra was abused, all we know is that the poor child was murdered and tossed away in a suit case in a pond filled with cow waste and water wearing the same clothes she was last seen in. Makes you wonder why she (the pastor's wife) would jump to such a conclusion, does it not?

continued

Church Guestbook Posts - Pastor Lane Lawless
Date:
4/7/2009
Time:
8:45:16 PM
Remote User:
Comments
My heart goes out to Sandra's family. I was sick to my stomach when I found out last night that she was gone. Such innocence and beauty, stolen from a sweet and precious little girl. I have three little girls, and all I could do today was hug them and kiss them all day. I sincerely hope that these accusations are just that. We can no longer trust anyone with our innocent children! Does this mean we can no longer trust our church, schools, coaches, etc.? If so, we might as well board up the windows, homeschool our children, and never let them out of our sight!!! I am a fairly young mother, but things have changed so much since I was a child. My oldest daughter is turning six, and I don't even like her in our front yard when I'm out there with her! My heart aches for her family, and especially her mother. I have no idea what it feels like to lose a child, and I hope I never with have to. May she rest in peace with angels.



Date:
4/7/2009
Time:
9:13:08 PM
Remote User:
Comments
Is there still Wednesday service tomorrow? Sinner



Date:
4/7/2009
Time:
9:50:48 PM
Remote User:
Comments
Many people are rushing to judgment with the scantiest of facts. Smearing a person without actual knowledge is itself an aggressive act with a potential victim. Let's let the professionals pursue the forensic leads. Possibilities exist, but there is nothing in the public record to suggest probabilities.



Date:
4/7/2009
Time:
9:59:00 PM
Remote User:
Comments
I pray that all those responsible for the death of Sandra Cantu be brought before the Lord to answer for their sins and begin their sentence of eternity in Hell!



Date:
4/7/2009
Time:
11:09:56 PM
Remote User:
Comments
What happened to Sandra is so very sad but i think its sad that so many people are making this pastor guilty before the law does their job.They have questioned many people and they are not all guilty so we must be patient and wait for an arrest and then a trial. Imagine if you lived in the trailer park and were questioned. WOuld you want people talking about you? Time will tell and until we know for sure we must be patient.None of us wants to bear false witness. Lets be careful and treat each other as we would want to be treated.



Date:
4/7/2009
Time:
11:17:40 PM
Remote User:
Comments
I believe we are very angry and hurt, for Sandra and her family. But let's trust God. He knows the way. Let's not rush into judgement until authorities do their job. Let's trust them as well. Let's make this experience one that will make us more loving and careful with our family, especially our children.



Date:
4/7/2009
Time:
11:47:32 PM
Remote User:
Comments
I pray that the authorities will have wisdom as they sort though this horrific crime against a beautiful child - there is a special place of torment for those who harm children.....the Bible says about those who harm innocent children.."it is better for them that they had a milestone tied around their neck and tossed into the sea."



Date:
4/7/2009
Time:
11:47:54 PM
Remote User:
Comments
I picked up as well at the comment of the pastors wife. And she kind of paused after she said that as well. Makes me wonder?? How does she know she was abused? And it is hard to trust anyone anymore...even those who preach religion and God. I hope he is not involved in any way, but only time will tell. We have to trust those who are doing the investigations to find the low life that could have done this to sweet Sandra. But I will tell you this....I do not think if the police had nothing...they would have searched and taken as much stuff as they did. And to take computers? To me that spells child porn and that is the low of the low. My prayers are with the Cantu family and RIP little Sandra...I am so sorry you were taken from this Earth so soon.



Date:
4/8/2009
Time:
12:35:59 AM
Remote User:
Comments
Innocent until proven guilty is what America is all about. I am a mother with 2 kids, but I still believe in the 5th Amendment. Did I believe that Scott Peterson killed his wife and child before his trial: yes, but I wasn't on the jury. And yes, he was entitled to a trial by a jury of his peers. Sometimes the jury gets it right (they did with him) and sometimes they get it wrong (OJ Simpson), but it's still our legal system and gets it right a majority of the time. Let the legal system work and hopefully there will be justice for this little girl. I am also a Christian. And believe it or not, ALL people of ALL religions have committed horrible acts of murder. Being a Christian does not guarantee our (good) behavior, it simply means that we believe that Christ died on the cross for our sins. We don't claim to be perfect; only Christ was perfect, without sin. In fact, the last thing we want to lay claim to is perfectness... because that's when you screw up: when you put yourself on a pedestal and think you're better than everybody else. I believe we should have compassion for this Pastor and his family until it is proven that he/they are guilty. You would want the same treatment if it was your husband/son/wife/child, or YOU being investigated. "Do unto others" people. Have patience. Pray that law enforcement/forensics will get the right person. And pray for this little girl's family... they must be heartbroken. I am, and I don't even know her. And when the guilty party is found, throw the book at them.



Date:
4/8/2009
Time:
12:37:55 AM
Remote User:
Comments
Dear Pastors, Please except this apology, I am extremly sadden to see people state selfish comments that tear down, rip apart and harm. I want to encourage you to "be strong and couragoues". If the Bible says that ALL THING, God works for the good of those who love him. Then be bless and rejoice, even in the stom. Again, I am sorry for the harmful words of those who "do not know what they do".



Date:
4/8/2009
Time:
12:54:49 AM
Remote User:
Comments
Truth of the matter is...the police aren't gonna waiste this much time on someone unless they're pretty sure.......they know what they're doing and who did this! These guys always leave tons of evidence behind.....and why is this Lawless guy letting his wife speak for him? Not holding mass on Sunday????



Date:
4/8/2009
Time:
1:04:25 AM
Remote User:
Comments
If rocks could be thrown on the internet, then this is the place to duck! Yikes. Just remember dear friends that, according to God's Word, we ALL deserve hell because we "ALL have sinned and fallen short of God's glory" (Romans 3:23). Whoever committed this crime certainly deserves to be brought to justice, but he does not deserve hell any more or less than the rest of us. God demands perfection, righteousness, and holiness from those who would dwell with him. Since all of us are no where close to being holy, then we must freely admit we are sinners, and stand in great need of God's forgiveness through faith in Christ Jesus and his sacrifice on the cross. May God show mercy to Sandra's family, the pastors and staff of this church, the community of Tracy, and to every one of us who are completely lost without Him! To God be the glory forever and ever.



Date:
4/8/2009
Time:
1:15:39 AM
Remote User:
Comments
I hope that this Pastor did not kill this little girl. I would think if her was a sexual predator and he had done this to someone at his church before someone would of heard about it. I feel it is someone associated with the church. I think since the Caylee Anthony case and all of the shows about it like Nancy Grace we are all jumping to conclusions and condemming someone who may be innocent. We need to let Law Enforcement do their job and quit listening to the TV and all of the rumors and false information about these missing child cases.



Date:
4/8/2009
Time:
1:17:18 AM
Remote User:
Comments
I hope that this Pastor did not kill this little girl. I would think if he was a sexual predator and he had done this to someone at his church before someone would of heard about it. I feel it is someone associated with the church. I think since the Caylee Anthony case and all of the shows about it like Nancy Grace we are all jumping to conclusions and condemming someone who may be innocent. We need to let Law Enforcement do their job and quit listening to the TV and all of the rumors and false information about these missing child cases.



Date:
4/8/2009
Time:
7:39:54 AM
Remote User:
Comments
Wow. Let's remember, WHOEVER committed this crime sinned. Who, that has posted on this site, has not sinned? Not one. In God's eyes, your sin is as big as the sin committed against this beautiful little girl. It only takes ONE sin to separate any of us from God. Thank God, He sent His Son so that we could be forgiven from ALL of our sins, through the precious blood of Jesus Christ. Don't fool yourselves people, there is coming a day when EVERY knee will bow before our Father in Heaven. You can believe it or not, but it IS going to happen. Praise God!



Date:
4/8/2009
Time:
8:26:17 AM
Remote User:
Comments
You say that "In Gods eyes your sin is as big as the sin committed against this beautiful little girl" So with that thinking a kid that steals a penny gumball is as bad of a person as this child killer. I consider myself a christian, but I really hope this isnt how the judgement works.



Date:
4/8/2009
Time:
8:31:19 AM
Remote User:
Comments
I question a Church that does not post a Mission Statement as being a true Christian congregation

continued

Church Guestbook Posts - Pastor Lane Lawless
Date:
4/8/2009
Time:
9:04:09 AM
Remote User:
Comments
Pastor Lawless' wife, Connie, added that Cantu sometimes visited their home often to play with their great granddaughter. Hmm, Church down the street, Lawless lives in the park, FBI spent hours searching the church-Law enforcement says you have to have known the Tracy area very well to have known to put the luggage in the pond. Fred Williams church member and defender Pastor Lawless of said that the mysterious black suitcase Cantu was found in was reported stolen the same day Cantu disappeared. Who would have known where to found a suitcase, and what criminal would risk so much just to steal a suitcase- Pastor Lawless or a family member knew about the suitcase- The suitcase is the key and I personally believe the FBI know their suspect and have them under surveillance until enough evidence is gathered to make an arrest any day-



Date:
4/8/2009
Time:
9:35:55 AM
Remote User:
Comments
The location of the pond is Whitehall Rd with a cross street refernce of Bacchetti Rd. There is a large body of water about .3 clicks east of Bacchetti Rd on the north side. This location is 4.5 clicks from the Church under investigation. A 7 minute drive. Not far at all! I hope that whoever did this will get their just deserts! It is horrible to know that we live in a world where kids are takin and lives destroyed in a matter of minutes, and the offenders who enact these heinous crimes have no remorse! God will have the last say in their fate! No deed goes unpunished.



Date:
4/8/2009
Time:
10:21:02 AM
Remote User:
Comments
I quit my last church NHCC because they were allowing a sex offender to be there and serve there. To this day parents in that church still do not know he is a sex offender. They leave their kids to be slaughtered while the pastor does nothing to inform or protect...underneath the disguise all are welcome in a church. It's only a matter of time before he rapes someone else. So I am not surprised at all that this pastor is being questioned. As far as all the members....shame on you. There is no possible way you didn't know something was wrong with this guy. You could have saved her!



Date:
4/8/2009
Time:
10:25:12 AM
Remote User:
Comments
I just want to say I have an 8 year old daughter and my heart goes out to this mother I pray the lord will wrap his arms around this family and give them some kind of peace I cannot imagine the pain and suffering they are feeling right now.. I also want to say that people should quit jumping to conclusions no one knows as of right now what has happened and it is unfortunate that rather than praying for this family people are on here already convicting this pastor the facts are not all in and no arrest has been made the police are not even calling him a suspect as for what his wife said come on people this girl was stuffed into a suitcase and dropped in a irrigation canal I don't think it is too far a reach to make a statement that she was abused! If it does turn out he is guilty than I hope he burns just like the rest of you but can we atleast let the police do their job!!



Date:
4/8/2009
Time:
10:26:37 AM
Remote User:
Comments
WOW, that's all I can say, as the mother of 2 young girls my heart goes out to Sandra's family. I had really prayed that they would find her safe. I also pray that this pastor had nothing to do with it. I am skeptical of church..alot of bad things happening lately in church... personal relationship with God is all that matters, not that you have to go to church to worship him...if the pastor is involved, I don't ever think that I will look at any church the same way again and I will think twice about all male figures that my children come in contact with. People please....stop letting your children out of your sight, it only takes seconds for someone to take your child and it only takes a minute to escort your child to where they are going in the neighborhood! How many more children must disappear before we start taking the simple precautions to ensure their safety? I live in rural Indiana and I don't let my daughters play outside in our fenced in yard without being able to see them. I am sorry that we live in a world where we have to constantly watch our children, but this in a fact of life.



Date:
4/8/2009
Time:
10:36:56 AM
Remote User:
Comments
Did you do it pastor?



Date:
4/8/2009
Time:
10:57:24 AM
Remote User:
Comments
My heart goes out to Sandra's Mother and family. No body should have to go through this type of destruction. Sadly to say that everyone does make horrible comments, however it is innocent until proven guilty. But when the evidence is there and being delt with in a timely manner, it is very hard to sit back and wait for conclusion of the facts to be revealed. One FACT IS THAT 2 or more people know who did this evil act, that would be "Sandra" and the evil person who did this to her. The clues and evidence are pointing in certain directions and there is only one reason for that, time will only reveal the TRUE FACTS. Time is a hard thing to deal with, all of people who are thrashing words on this site due to not knowing the facts, how do you think this poor Mother is feeling not having her child that she has had for the last eight years. Selfish and angry people are all around and that is very sad. Time will tell and I am sorry to say that hurt does not go away and Sandra's mom is going to live with this until the day she is in Heaven with her Angel Baby. It is easy to judge, but the truth is hard to get as fast as we all would like to get it. God Bless everyone. I pray for all of the children and families every time I pray, for the whole world. TIME AND EFFORT WILL REVEAL THE MONSTER WHO DID THIS. BE A LOT BIGGER THEN THE UNEDUCATED WORDS THAT COME OUT. THINK BEFORE YOU TALK.



Date:
4/8/2009
Time:
11:08:30 AM
Remote User:
Comments
Obviously the person linked to this crime was and is living in that Trailor court and goes to that Church!! Either it is the Pastor or someone linked with the Pastor, which would be one of his children that were mentioned in an earlier posting here above. I do not want to judge but I think the evidence is pointing to the Pastor. I pray the FBI and the forensics do their jobs fast in reference to this case.



Date:
4/8/2009
Time:
11:28:22 AM
Remote User:
Comments
I think it's a family member of the preacher.He did have 9 grandchildren.Probably in his early 20's,no job, hung out,and knew the surroundings(the pond).



Date:
4/8/2009
Time:
11:41:59 AM
Remote User:
Comments
Trace the serial number on the suitcase.Try to fing where and when it might have been purchased.



Date:
4/8/2009
Time:
11:46:07 AM
Remote User:
Comments
"Trace the serial number on the suitcase.Try to fing where and when it might have been purchased." Suitcases have serial numbers??



Date:
4/8/2009
Time:
11:50:30 AM
Remote User:
Comments
I don't think someone who is almost 80 years old could do something like this, especially a pastor.If he did he had help.



Date:
4/8/2009
Time:
11:55:06 AM
Remote User:
Comments
Were any of his grand kids LOSERS?



Date:
4/8/2009
Time:
12:33:56 PM
Remote User:
Comments
To the Pastor, his wife and the congregation of this Church, I will pray for each of you. Whether innocent or guilty, the one absolute is that prayer is much needed in this community. Sadly, Christianity as a whole is under attack each time a situation like this becomes known. As we are in the middle of Holy Week, I would ask that each of us who truly believe in God show our faith, show the absolute light of Christ, by praying for ALL involved in this horrible tragedy. Regardless of whom they determine to be at fault, the person or persons capable of looking into that sweet little girls’ big brown eyes and still manage to take her life is undoubtedly a monster. As such, they and all who surround them need prayer. The guilty will be punished, there is no doubt, but we as Christians are not placed here to judge. If you are posting on this site and propose to be a Christian but are spewing hate, you need to have a long chat with God this evening. I, like everyone else, am human and I am disgusted at the thought of this horrible act. Times like this can be most challenging for a Christian. We are faced daily with unspeakable crimes taking place in our own back yard. The human flesh reaction is to place blame and speak badly of others. When I find myself weak and wanting to lash out with my own quick opinion (happens all too often), I try to remind myself of what happened in Nickel Mines Pennsylvania. In Nickel Mines a small Amish community, not only managed to survive an attack on their schoolhouse that took the lives of several children, but also in the midst of their nightmare, they taught the nation a lesson on God’s love and forgiveness. Even in their great sorrow, they reached out and embraced the family of the man who stole their peace. They offered help, love and forgiveness…unconditionally. We should all strive to be so Christ-like in our actions.

continued

Church Guestbook Posts - Pastor Lane Lawless
Date:
4/8/2009
Time:
12:44:20 PM
Remote User:
Comments
I agree, I do not live in Tracy, nor do I live in CA... But I ran into this post by accident, the people on here sound like a lynch mob! The media has already said that the pastor was questioned like many others, he is not a suspect at this time. People need to settle down, I feel really bad for this pastor, especially if it turns out that he had NOTHING to do with the littel girls death, he and his wife have done everything the authorities have asked of them and just want to help find the killer, if the means they need to answer questions they are doing it. People on this post have already strung this man up, tried him, and have him strapped to the electric chair, won't you feel like the fool when it turns out to be someone else. But I wonder how many people will come back to this site to say I'm sorry pastor I was wrong?? It is all about the dramatics, be damned with how it affects the possible innocent persons being tried by the party of fools on this post. Agian I do not know anyone involved in this case, and live in the midwest, but most of the bunch on this post sound like idiots! get a life, get a job, and find something to do with yourself. Let the law work, if the pastor had something to do with this it will come put, until then how about you greive for the family of this child, and get off the ban wagon of finger pointing! This is pathetic.



Date:
4/8/2009
Time:
12:45:39 PM
Remote User:
Comments



Date:
4/8/2009
Time:
1:16:56 PM
Remote User:
Comments
THIS WHOLE SITE IS SAD...IT'S A CHURCH SITE FOR GODS HOME AND LOOK WHAT YOU PEOPLE ARE SAYING AND THROWING STONES............HOW SAD! RIP SWEET LITTLE GIRL, MAY GOD HOLD YOU IN HIS ARMS....



Date:
4/8/2009
Time:
1:50:25 PM
Remote User:
Comments
I will be praying for the truth to be found out and peace for those who are innocent. Walker, Texas Preacher



Date:
4/8/2009
Time:
2:13:38 PM
Remote User:
Comments
All fingers and clues in this case are pointing straight at this pastor. He either did it or had something to do with it (child or grandchild). Why would he be interviewed neumerous times, all of his vehicles taken, the suitcase in which contained the body was missing from his church... What a shame... They wouldnt be doing all this for NOTHING.... I'm sorry for the people on here who think that this horrific crime of sickness is equal to a small sin in Gods eyes. Im sure GOD has a SPECIAL punishment for this sick individual....



Date:
4/8/2009
Time:
2:27:59 PM
Remote User:
Comments
<a href="http://yogrwkiz.com">fllgrcwe</a> myegzlnj[/URL dmsikjar http://ghadxqwt.com mnoyntlz fnfyfcat



Date:
4/8/2009
Time:
2:39:38 PM
Remote User:
Comments
"All fingers and clues in this case are pointing straight at this pastor" how do you know this? Are you an officer in Tracy or part of the FBI? if you are getting the info from the media the same as the rest of the world you have no basis for this statement? What is pointing the fingers in the pastors direction is that they searched his church, and his trailer, they also said "he is not a suspect at this time" THe suit case may have come from the church and may not have? a woman reported one missing from the church according to the media, so maybe she killed this poor child? it was her suit case. Come on! so far the authorities are not telling enough to say that this pastor is linked, that would be really stupid on thier part. I am not saying he had nothing to do with this, what I am saying is that the people on this post have convicted him based on media, let the law work. there have been others that have been questionsed by authorities multiple times as well. this finger pointing and lynch mob is silly! I would love to see how many of these people on here come back after this is sorted out, and say they were wrong if the pastor is cleared of this... Bet there won't be many, as that is not sensational enough for these sort of folks. Pray for justice, and pray for the little girls family! I will also be saying a prayer for this pastor tonight, as if he has nothing to do with this he is going to need it! this has got to be killing him. And if he is involved his soul we need the prayer!



Date:
4/8/2009
Time:
2:58:03 PM
Remote User:
Comments
"All fingers and clues in this case are pointing straight at this pastor....." lol.... Your funny. First of all the Pastor and his wife were interviewed by the media in their vehicle. So that tells me that they still have their car. The cops could have talked to anyone for any amount of time, and I bet you would have jumped and said it was that person. That alone is not good judgement, heck I may have been you. Those who point fingers usually always have fingers pointing right back at them. Let the police and FBI do their jobs. The obviously have way more training than you do. Oh.....God Bless



Date:
4/8/2009
Time:
3:03:13 PM
Remote User:
Comments
"All fingers and clues in this case are pointing straight at this pastor....." lol.... Your funny. First of all the Pastor and his wife were interviewed by the media in their vehicle. So that tells me that they still have their car. The cops could have talked to anyone for any amount of time, and I bet you would have jumped and said it was that person. That alone is not good judgement, heck it may have been you. Those who point fingers usually always have fingers pointing right back at them. Let the police and FBI do their jobs. They obviously have way more training than you do. Oh.....God Bless



Date:
4/8/2009
Time:
3:20:11 PM
Remote User:
Comments
Stand Strong Lane! God Knows The Truth!



Date:
4/8/2009
Time:
3:35:12 PM
Remote User:
Comments
This is the Church that Maria and Sandra have been going to. "Prayer for Maria" Sweet Child of the Lord, I pray that you find peace with this horrible even that you now find yourself in. I pray that God holds your chin and your head high through this ordeal. I pray that you and your baby and family can all become closer than ever and share support and love. I pray in the Name of Jesus our Lord and Savior for Peace, Love, and Joy. I have three children of my own, I can't imagine anyone going through this. Jesus please keep your hand on Maria and Family and walk every step with them. At this time I pray Lord that you comfort Maria and her family. In Jesus' name I pray. AMEN.



Date:
4/8/2009
Time:
4:32:55 PM
Remote User:
Comments
show me the absolute proof that if you sin the way the killer did you burn in hell for eternity; you have none;instead focus on the law and when police get the killer let that person be tried.bush and cheney have killed thousands of children so would they burn for eternity in hell?come on let the system make sure the killer gets off the street and go back to your routine .

 (http://idanqgjs.com)

continued

Church Guestbook Posts - Pastor Lane Lawless
Date:
4/8/2009
Time:
4:35:50 PM
Remote User:
Comments
There is a REASON why this so called pastor is being questioned! The law does not just take someone into questioning and search their home and church for no reason. I think the pastor is a sick man and he deserves to ROT in hell. You are no man of GOD. You should man up and accept what you have done to that beautiful precious child Sandra and turn yourself in, because sooner or later they will get you. Anyone that knows anything about this sick man and the murder of Sandra, Please for the sake of the Cantu family, SPEAK UP, GOD will be with you and protect you from all evil. God bless this family and may GOD bring true justice to this family



Date:
4/8/2009
Time:
5:14:17 PM
Remote User:
Comments
Poor sweet darling little Sandra. So very sorry for her family. Why don't these disturbed horrific predators just kill themselves instead of innocent children? Why did the perp bury her on a dairy farm? Convenience or a connection? Are farms familiar to the perp?



Date:
4/8/2009
Time:
6:04:11 PM
Remote User:
Comments
May you be reminded of a passage in the book John, Chapter 8. But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, "If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her." We don't know whether Pastor Lawless has committed this crime or not. So who are you to judge so quickly? My prayers and thoughts are with Sandra's family, and I pray you can turn your thoughts to her family as well instead of thinking how you can judge Pastor Lawless and the Christian community. <><



Date:
4/8/2009
Time:
6:49:01 PM
Remote User:
Comments
I looked for this website in order to simply put a prayer for Sandra and her family and friends. I am from a family of Law Enforcement Officers; two Sheriff's, Police officers,an SBI agent, a Secret Service Agent, and Chief of Detectives for over 30 years...I have grown up with an understanding of how Investigations. I also have Pastors and Missionaries in my family. I learned early in life, that Preacher's kids & Cops Kids, really have it tough...but that is not what I wanted to get into...just want readers to understand that as I write this, I have an intimate understanding of both worlds... First, to the person who wrote, " It has NEVER been reported that little Sandra was abused" , therefore this person thinks the preachers wife KNOWS something. I daresay, that if the child was murdered, that qualifies as abuse...& mom and child have been attending here, so maybe she DOES have more insight than we do. Second, Do you remember the "Olympic Park Bomber"? I don't remember his name, but that guy was persecuted, prosecuted, hung and burned at the stake by the PUBLIC because...like someone said before me...Law Enforcement doesn't just serve warrants and take computers, etc. without cause...aahhhem...please do some research. You might want to check into the innocence project. How many people have been released in the past few years due to mistakes, rushes to judgement, and evidence that now can be tested? COPS R HUMAN! Third, How many people have been interviewed/questioned, etc., in this investigation? Have you folks taken your picket signs and stood in their yards screaming obscenities at them...just as has been done on this CHURCH website? No? Please examine why you think it appropriate to do so here. Fourth, If/When the person who did this horrible hate filled thing to this child is found, arrested, tried, and sentenced, ...and IF it ISNT this pastor, WILL YOU BE RETURNING TO THIS SITE, TO APOLOGIZE? Will you ask for forgiveness for prejudging this man? Will you ask him to forgive you for slandering him, his God, his church, his church members, his family, his friends...well, you are smart folks, so I don't need to go on. Finally: Dear Pastor and Church Family, I am not here to be angry. I am not here to vandalize your church's website. I am here to simply say I am praying for you and yours. To Sandra's family, I am praying God will allow you rest, placing His Angels around you now, whispering Gods love and peace in your ears when all you can hear is a dull roar of pain. That the peace of the Holy Spirit will wash over your body, mind and spirit to be your comfort in this agony I KNOW your are feeling. I pray that when you feel lonely,when you miss this child, that Angels will wrap wings of love around you and warm your hurting hearts. I pray that in time, you will only remember the Joy...the Joy of all those times you watched her sleep, the first steps, the first smile, the first words...knowing...knowing that you have NOT seen these things for the last time; but that Sandra will be waiting for you...and in time, you will hold her, smile with her, laugh with her, and rejoice with her in the awsome presence of Christ himself! Praying for You until then, From a mother whose child was taken, murdered, and knows this pain and cries with you. C in NC



Date:
4/8/2009
Time:
7:03:19 PM
Remote User:
Comments
Whoever did this is sick and an idiot. The police are competent; they have mud, tire tracks, fiber traces…they seem to be moving at a fair pace in one direction, to the culprit of this heinous act. I’m going to watch and listen as the police do their job. The idiot will do something else stupid while trying to cover tracks. I will drink from my frosty chalice when caught.



Date:
4/8/2009
Time:
7:09:46 PM
Remote User:
Comments
....Peace be with the family and friends of Sandra Cantu



Date:
4/8/2009
Time:
7:19:21 PM
Remote User:
Comments
Another good thing about the police taking their time naming/arresting a suspect in this heinous crinme is that it gives him/her the opportunity to commit suicide, which saves the taxpayers a LOT of money and avoids a painful trial for Sandra's family.



Date:
4/8/2009
Time:
7:20:23 PM
Remote User:
Comments
there has to be a reason why this pastor is being questioned. I noticed while watching Nancy grace that the wife, connie was doing all of the talking. Could she be involved with her husband? I wonder!



Date:
4/8/2009
Time:
7:24:20 PM
Remote User:
Comments
I'be been married for 25 years, my wife always speaks for me

continued

Church Guestbook Posts - Pastor Lane Lawless
Date:
4/8/2009
Time:
7:28:14 PM
Remote User:
Comments



Date:
4/8/2009
Time:
8:15:07 PM
Remote User:
Comments
I'm not a religious person. A whole lot of "pray for this and pray for that" as well as "hate and judge this and hate and judge that" seems to be happening here. Neither work for me because I have no idea what sort of god would allow some pervert to allow this innocent child to die in such a manner and I have no idea why any individuals would judge guilt on "anyone" so quickly and without clear evidence. I simply do not understand either of you. If any guilt exists, I "hope" for justice to the guilty, quick and complete. If not guilty, I "hope" that the individual or individuals being pre-judged are able to find strength in whatever way to endure and bear the trouble.



Date:
4/8/2009
Time:
10:15:59 PM
Remote User:
Comments
I am ashamed to be part of the human race after reading some of these comments. Please let law enforcment do their jobs and end this mob mentality. If this guy did do it, he will pay, and rest assured that God's wrath when he finally does die, will be the least of his worries. But if he is innocent, I hope those of you who wrote such evil,horrible things, can take a good hard look at yourselves, as it is truly PATHETIC IGNORANCE and more families will have been ruined because of your rush to judgement. My thoughts are with the Cantu family,thinking of you and fully supporting you in this time of sorrow. Sandra will be truly missed.



Date:
4/8/2009
Time:
10:24:58 PM
Remote User:
Comments
I got a wish. I wish Jesus come back soon and save us from ourselves...



Date:
4/9/2009
Time:
7:28:59 AM
Remote User:
Comments
Dear Pastor, My prayer are with you and Sandra family. I am very sadden with what is going on right now. May God bless all of you out there in California. I am not the one to judge anyone. I just want this to be resolved and hopefully you will be cleared and you and your family can resume you all lives and continue preaching Gods word if that is his will for you. Stay strong because we all know that time is going to tell. I have a feeling it will be real soon. Be patience it will all be over soon. God knows the truth. That is Why her body has been reveal so soon. Think about it. Why All of a sudden that pond was drained that day. God reveal it, That was all a part of Gods plan, When the person was actually committing the act and thinking they were going to get away with it. Here is the key to who ever reads this. They say the person responsible knew so much about the area. Well apparently not because, Did they not know that the farm worker drain that pond here and there? Why would the person responsible put her there if they did not want precious Sandra to be discover. I think that is the mistake the person who did this made. Pastor with all due respect, I am going to be straight forward with you before I leave. I'm talking to you as if I have known you forever. Know matter what people say on this web-site, Just know if You know deep down in your heart honestly,that you truly had no involvement and have no knowledge at all about what happen to Sandra, Then you have nothing to worry about and you will remain a free man. However I completely understand that you must fully cooperate with law enforcement. In the meantime I will be praying and praying. God bless.



Date:
4/9/2009
Time:
8:14:57 AM
Remote User:
Comments
True strength of heart is not in what we've done or what we know, but in the fears we face and in the patience we must show...For life brings times of challenge, and we sometimes have to cope with moments of frustration when we cling to fragile hope...We learn through times of sadness that, whatever life may bring, it's what we bring to life that is the most immportant thing...And while your situation now demands a lot from you, the strength of heart you've always shown will help and guide you through. Even though this is a tough time for you,have hope, take courage, and never forget...You're strong, you can make it through, and you're never alone.



Date:
4/9/2009
Time:
8:25:09 AM
Remote User:
Comments
Pastor Lawless, I do not know you, and I do not live in Califonia, but I am very sad about what is going on there right now. As a man of god I hope that you are able to pray for the souls of the people making these posts. If you are innocent I hope that you are able to forgive those that have been som quick to judge you. People judged Jesus as well. Please keep the faith pastor Lawless, and I am praying for you at this time. For the family of Sandra I am on my knees praying as hard as I can that you may find some comfort in your memories of little Sandra. I know it will take time, and it will always hurt, but god is an amazing strength, it is hard at times to understand why this could happen, and hard to turn to god for your emotional needs, but do it! you will need to get past the anger and dispare, and God is the ONLY way you will be able to do this... There is nothing else in this world strong enough to walk tou down the path of forgivness, and allow your heart to shine with Sandra's memories. This will fill you with love and joy, work through the anger, it will be hard and will take time, but Sandra will help you do this. She looked like such an angel, and now she is, let her lead you to God and comfort, let her hold your hand as you take this horrible journy of loss. God bless Sandra and family & God Bless Pastor Lawless and his family, there is so much hurt and anger right now please try to understand Pastor Lawless that God will lead you to where you belong as well, and try to forgive the ones that are so quick to cast the 1st stone, they are only acting on emotion and anger. God Blees and lead these posters as well, fill their hearts with love and comfort, and understanding. Also guide the law to where they need to be, give them the strength to get through this horrible case and lead this community to healing. In Gods name!!



Date:
4/9/2009
Time:
8:50:31 AM
Remote User:
Comments
Where are you people getting you information? How are you able to pass judgement on this man and his family from what is in the media? Do all of you posters that are convicting this pastor know him? Do you know of evil in his heart, do you know him to be a BAD man, a child killer, a person with EVIL in his heart? I can't understand where your judgements are coming from here is what I have been seeing, in no way would I be able to judge this man based on this? Pray for Sandr's family, they need your positive energy right now, pray for the law inforcement officers, this has to be hear wrenching on them. Pay for this community, and pray for yourselves that you may be kind and understanding, and without judgement. The killer will be found, and they will be judged by God, and the courts, you don't need to do that, GOD has that covered. God Bless you all. Media clips: “So far, no suspects have been identified, but 15 search warrants have been served as Tracy police and FBI agents scour the area in search of Sandra's killer.” "We feel a great deal of pressure. We want to find who is responsible for this," said Tracy police Sgt. Tony Sheneman. "We don't want to rush to judgment and we don't want people tried in the press." “Thus far, the department has interviewed several people, including Lane Lawless, 77, pastor of the Clover Road Baptist Church, which was searched for evidence Tuesday.” “The pastor's wife, Connie Lawless, said the couple had nothing to do with Sandra's killing and that authorities were interested in them only because they lived down the street from her and she used to play with their great-grandchild.” “Police said Lawless is not a suspect and no arrests are imminent.” “Sheneman also said the department is not focusing on any one person.” "We are looking at a lot of people," he said. "Everyone we are talking to has been cooperative. We are working very diligently to locate and identify the killer or killers of Sandra Cantu."



Date:
4/9/2009
Time:
10:03:58 AM
Remote User:
Comments
I live in the midwest and I have been reading all of the recent posts on this website. The only thing that I can say is that bad things happen everywhere! Not just in California or to somebody else! Praying is not going to keep our children safe. We need to teach our children that there are monsters out there waiting to get them! It's the truth. My heart goes out to Sandra's family and especially her mother. This was a terrible thing to have happened to this family. My hope is that other families learn from this tradgey! Know where you children are at all times! Do not let them go anywhere unattended! There is another unsloved case here in Constantine, MI. Small town, it's been over a year. 11 year old went to a friends house on her bike, never showed up and was found abused and murdered in the town cemetary. There's only like 4,000 people in the town and they still have not found the person responsible. I have to think that we can prevent some of these things from happening by not allowing these sick predators to have that second of opportunity to snatch our children. Don't let your child walk or ride their bike in the neighborhood unattended! You do not know your neighbors, you only know what they want you to know. Be parents, keep your children safe! This is not the same world that our parents and grandparents grew up in. The monsters are out there and it is our job as parents to keep our children out of harms way.



Date:
4/9/2009
Time:
11:30:02 AM
Remote User:
Comments
Praying you are right, will not keep our children safe! Not without close parental eyes... But praying will help the souls so tragically touched by this horrible event. And a church website is bound to talk about prayer! So if you feel that prayer is not the answer then you should post on a non-religious based website. I agree that people need to hold your children close, but no matter how close you hold them you can not protect them from 100% of all evil, and you can not watch your children 100% of the time, no matter how much you try, if you tell me that you can you are not a parent, and have not experienced parenthood. What harm do you feel your child will come to walking a couple of doors down to a neighbors home? What age is old enough to walk a couple of doors down to a neighbors house? 15 and 16 year old children have come up missing, should they not be leaving your sight to visit a friend. Children need to be able to grow into their own person, and can't be made to live in fear at all times, what kind of childhood would that be? No you can't play outside today because mommy can't watch you 100% of the time. Mom has to get something from the house I know you are 8 years old but you need to come in? These things will happen, and there is little we can do to prevent it, except to take away our kids childhood, and smoother them. I am sure Sandras mother is say I wish I would have right now, but as a parent looking honestly at this I don't know that letting my 8 year old walk a few houses down would seem like such a dangerous event. It turns out it was, but she was just being a child like so many other children across America. I feel that the best we can do right now is pray! We can't bring Sandra back, but we can pray as hard as we can for justice, strength and mercy! And we need to continue to pray. But we as a society also need to punish the people that kill our children! The answer is not to lock up your kids, the answer is to lock up the monsters, and NEVER let them out. Maybe a federal capital punishment with 1 strike and your out would be the answer. You kill a child in this sort of manner and it was not an accident then you die!!! Let the kids be kids...

continued

Church Guestbook Posts - Pastor Lane Lawless
Date:
4/9/2009
Time:
12:44:29 PM
Remote User:
Comments
I sure am glad that my judge is the God Almighty and not you folks. lol! Everyone talks about how restrictive and judgemental Christianity is, but at least God has made a provision for us through His Son, Jesus Christ. And for those of you who are 'athiest', what standard of judgement are you using for the predator who killed this little girl? Where do you get your moral viewpoint of what is right and wrong? If you truly believe there is no God, then who's to say what is right and wrong? Stay with me here...you are judging the person who killed this girl, using the moral standards set forth in the Bible, the Living Word of God. Without those standards, everything would be left to man's interpretation of right and wrong. So, if a person thinks it's okay to molest a child, then it's okay. Do you get it? Do you get that you are using the standards set forth by God, in whom you do not believe, to judge others? If you athiests are so superior to us poor Christians, who rely on God to lead us and protect us, make up your own set of standards. Quit stealing from the Almighty, while denying His very existence. And know this, you will bow before Him one day. You can believe it or not, you will bow before Him. And when you do, you will be judged by Him. Repent...He sent His Son to die for you, even though you reject Him, He loves you, and it's not too late to repent and accept Christ's love for you. John 3:16



Date:
4/9/2009
Time:
1:22:12 PM
Remote User:
Comments
Hello pastor, I was here earlier. I have not yet heard of any new development. Just wanted to say hang ion there it all in the lord hands. I hope that your family and you are okay as well as Sandra family. This is a hard time for the whole word. I am just waiting for you to be cleared and the person who responsible for this crime. Hang in the and do not give up. i see that you have a large audience now. WOW! imagine that. That is sad.



Date:
4/9/2009
Time:
1:25:24 PM
Remote User:
Comments
Hello pastor, I was here earlier. I have not yet heard of any new development. Just wanted to say hang ion there it all in the lord hands. I hope that your family and you are okay as well as Sandra family. This is a hard time for the whole word. I am just waiting for you to be cleared and the person who responsible for this crime. Hang in the and do not give up. i see that you have a large audience now. WOW! imagine that. That is sad.I am from Clearwater, Fla



Date:
4/9/2009
Time:
1:43:08 PM
Remote User:
Comments
Judge not! Imagine if this was your child! How can you say that this parent just needed to watch her child. How heartless and ignorant can a person be. This is a dead little girl, that was only guilty of going to play with her friends. And this is a grieving mother only guilty of allowing her child to be a child. This is only the fault of the monster that found it in his will to destroy this family, and kill this little angel. People like you make me so sick! It is so easy to say when it is not your child!



Date:
4/9/2009
Time:
1:52:34 PM
Remote User:
Comments
You're website is pretty generic. Not one that would draw to it. Why are the Tracey police investigating your church and it's grounds? Why are they digging things up and taking the finds to a lab to be tested?



Date:
4/9/2009
Time:
2:42:17 PM
Remote User:
Comments
Is school out this week? Because reading some of the slanderist comments about this pastor, it sure sounds like it. R.I.P. Sandra Cantu 2009. Will (Austin TX)



Date:
4/9/2009
Time:
4:52:20 PM
Remote User:
Comments
Why was the pastor stuttering on TV and why did his wife do all the talking? That Bastard must have done it! Look at the evil in his eye, during the interviews! I feel that he has done it and his wife knows about it!I wish this upon his children/grand children, if he did it! YOU WILL ROT IN HELL! And also why no Sunday service this WEEK PASTOR? You know dam well that you did it! Be a man and pay for what you have done to this family. RIP Sandra and God Bless her Family



Date:
4/9/2009
Time:
6:00:09 PM
Remote User:
Comments
Looks like Mercy Lewis has shown up several times in this guest book, I thought we were out of the dark ages. Let the cops do their job.



Date:
4/9/2009
Time:
9:59:41 PM
Remote User:
Comments
Bro. and Sister Lawless. I am holding you up in my prayers. Be of good courage in the Lord. I remember you fine folks from some of our bible conferences years ago. May the Lord sustain you thru all this by His Grace. This could be happening to any of our churches.Just a sign of the times in which we live. Mike McCartney Roseville, Calif.



Date:
4/9/2009
Time:
10:25:31 PM
Remote User:
Comments
I pray for Sandra's family and friends. Especially her friends that she played with at school and at home. I pray that God helps them heal and helps them be able to sleep at night. This is a horrible tragedy, that is no one's falt but the one who took her life. The person that took that beautiful happy child and just threw her away. God Bless, Sandra, I know you are happy now with God and the angles and that your killer will be brought to justice. I am so sorry that all these horrible things are being said on this web-site, we do not know who killed Sandra, but placing blame without proof isn't going to help anyone.



Date:
4/10/2009
Time:
5:15:37 AM
Remote User:
Comments
With regard to those who make a big deal of the Pastor's wife remarking how horrible it is that this little girl was abused, when there was no revelations of her being abused.... Thats silly. Its not a slip of secret information. Its a rational assumption that a little girl who was kidnapped and found stuffed in a suitcase was abused between point A and B



Date:
4/10/2009
Time:
8:26:27 AM
Remote User:
Comments
***"I wish this upon his children/grand children"*** God be with you! This is the most reprehensible statement I have ever heard! God will deal with you on his own terms, but I would pray very hard. There is no proof that the pastor or his wife had anything to do with this! But a comment like this makes you no better than the monster that did do this. Why would you ever wish this sort of tragedy on any sweet innocent child. This man's grandchildren are babies just as Sandra was! I am praying for your soul, anger makes people unreasonable, but this is past that. NO child should ever die this way... PERIOD!!! Not even a killer child, so if the killer has children we should pray for them, not wish them harm, they will suffer enough once this monster is caught. I am learning from this website all of the issues we have as humans, there is judgements with no basis, but to see the above statement of wishing harm of the pastors family is a sad, sad, sight. Please ask God into your heart, he can heal what is turning you into such a cold person!



Date:
4/10/2009
Time:
11:19:27 AM
Remote User:
Comments
If the hands of time were hands that I could hold, I'd keep them warm and in my hands, They'd not turn cold! Hand in hand we choose the moments that should last, The lovely moments that should have no future and no past! The summer from the top of a swing, The comfort and the sound of a lullaby, The innocence of leaves in the spring, But most of the moment when love first toched me! All the happy days would never learn to fly, Until the hands of time would choose to wave good-bye! The innocence of leaves in the spring, But most of the moment when love first touched me! All the happy days would never learn to fly, Until the hands of time would choose to wave good-bye!



Date:
4/10/2009
Time:
11:54:57 AM
Remote User:
Comments
IS THIS IS THE WAY PASTOR LAWLESS BAPTIZES A CHILD?

continued

Church Guestbook Posts - Pastor Lane Lawless
Date:
4/10/2009
Time:
12:43:56 PM
Remote User:
Comments
Jonestown, Jim Jones and the People's Temple..... Tracy,Ca, Pastor Lawless, Clover Road Baptist Church



Date:
4/10/2009
Time:
1:09:47 PM
Remote User:
Comments
REDICULOUIS COMMENTS! THIS CHILDS DEATH IS NOT A JOKE!



Date:
4/10/2009
Time:
3:13:40 PM
Remote User:
Comments
it certainly is not a joke, unbelievable. Does anyone know if there is still a press conference that is going to take place? RIP Sandra



Date:
4/10/2009
Time:
3:37:04 PM
Remote User:
Comments
http://www.tracypress.com/pages/full_st ... ory&open=&



Date:
4/10/2009
Time:
3:38:35 PM
Remote User:
Comments
Pleople.. please read into this family.. The suitcase came from them. the grandaughter living with him is a felon and the story is just not right.... Look into it before you pity them.



Date:
4/10/2009
Time:
3:52:42 PM
Remote User:
Comments
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Date:
4/10/2009
Time:
4:16:20 PM
Remote User:
Comments
this is a f***ing crazy church!!!!!



Date:
4/10/2009
Time:
4:52:33 PM
Remote User:
Comments
Why are you Pathetic people trying to protect the GUILTY, the pastor. The law would not question him, his church or his home, for no reason.....He is hiding something! He may not be the killer, but he sure has something to do with it, because there are way too many things pointing his way for him to be innocent. I just wish that the killer would get caught soon, because I live in this community and have a small child and I dont want this killer to be free to commit this kind of act again. Please everyone let's pray that this monster gets caught soon. God please bless the Cantu family and Sandra may you Rest In Peace!

continued

Church Guestbook Posts - Pastor Lane Lawless
Date:
4/10/2009
Time:
5:04:01 PM
Remote User:
Comments
i am sure the police know about this website... could the person responsible for the Cantu's family tragedy be reading post???? i just read this on cbs..one of the networks... << >> A Sunday school teacher said someone took her black rolling suitcase from the Orchard Estates Mobile Home Park on the day 8-year-old murder victim Sandra Cantu disappeared. It’s a huge suitcase, 28-year-old Melissa Huckaby said in a phone interview today, waterproof, charcoal-trimmed and has an Eddie Bauer logo on the front. Police have yet to confirm whether it’s the same one found Monday morning that contained Sandra’s dead body.



Date:
4/10/2009
Time:
5:13:42 PM
Remote User:
Comments
Is it just me or is the Tracy Police Department lacking in basic investigative skills?



Date:
4/10/2009
Time:
5:25:36 PM
Remote User:
Comments
MELISSA DO THE RIGHT THING!!!



Date:
4/10/2009
Time:
5:33:20 PM
Remote User:
Comments
Sounds like (Melissa) grand daughter is trying desperately to cover her tracks now. Pressures mounting



Date:
4/10/2009
Time:
5:35:33 PM
Remote User:
Comments
There will be an arrest within 24 hrs.



Date:
4/10/2009
Time:
5:35:48 PM
Remote User:
Comments
There will be an arrest within 24 hrs.



Date:
4/10/2009
Time:
7:26:13 PM
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4/10/2009
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11:06:04 PM
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continued

Church Guestbook Posts - Pastor Lane Lawless
Date:
4/10/2009
Time:
11:06:22 PM
Remote User:
Comments
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Date:
4/10/2009
Time:
11:07:06 PM
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Date:
4/11/2009
Time:
2:24:16 AM
Remote User:
Comments
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Date:
4/11/2009
Time:
4:42:47 AM
Remote User:
Comments
The Truth is now known. "Of all the great frauds in Human history the fraudulent church which lures the weak for its own base pleasure and appearance of piety is the darkest and most evil."--Pain, Terra Immortalis, Codex xl. <a href="http://thedisbrimstone-dailypitchfork.blogspot.com/">thedisbrimstone-dailypitchfork.blogspot.com</a>



Date:
4/11/2009
Time:
4:55:11 AM
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Well, we know some of the truth now. The bastard pastor might not have been the killer but his granddaughter was. Did he assist Melissa in the murder? I don't know. Was the bastard pastor's wife involved? I don't know. But I do know that this church is full of evil.



Date:
4/11/2009
Time:
5:12:39 AM
Remote User:
Comments
So many "christians", too few lions



Date:
4/11/2009
Time:
6:26:24 AM
Remote User:
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Date:
4/11/2009
Time:
6:27:56 AM
Remote User:
Comments
To Pastor and Wife - Your hearts must be broken right now and you must be fearing for your granddaughter. Thankfully you have your faith to ease some of this turmoil but it's going to be very difficult for you for a very long time. I am so very sorry. To Melissa: we're to love our enemies which is hard sometimes but know I will be praying for you. To all the hateful posters: the hate you're breeding is just going to add to the evil in this world. Please don't feed it



Date:
4/11/2009
Time:
6:28:02 AM
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Melissa Huckaby: cat-gut common white trailer park trash



Date:
4/11/2009
Time:
6:55:00 AM
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Alright, now the pastor is not a suspect...but I suppose it's his fault his relative is under arrest. I have three teenagers and I'm starting to realize just how helpless you really are in the decisions that they make. Not that mine are absolutely terrible kids, but you begin to see as they grow toward adulthood, that they are individuals with free wills. It's not fair to blame a parent or grandparent for what their children and grandchildren do. Also, how many kidnappings, molestations and murders occur outside the church? ALOT more than inside. Besides, they lived in the same trailer park...that's evidently where the abduction took place, not in the church. And for those of you who are calling the accused killer trailer park trash, the slain child also lived in a the same trailer park. Was she trash? If you're going to post, at least read it before you push the 'submit comments' button. I've heard LOTS of 'trailer park trash' speak much more eloquently than you.



Date:
4/11/2009
Time:
7:16:49 AM
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If this woman was teaching sunday school with a record it was because the pastor wanted them too. At our church no one with a record is ever allowed to do anything in the church except sit or possibly hand out tracks. You have again given the Baptist church a smear and as the Bible says God will not be mocked. This woman is a monster to kill a child. Have mercy on her soul and Pastor you need to step down now and pray for healing of your church.



Date:
4/11/2009
Time:
7:17:57 AM
Remote User:
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how ironic the pastor name is Lawless



Date:
4/11/2009
Time:
7:32:34 AM
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TO LANE LAWLESS: BEFORE YOU PREACH TO A CONGREGATION, PLEASE MAKE SURE YOUR OWN HOUSE IS IN ORDER. YOUR ATTENTION AND FOCUS SHOULD BE ON YOUR GRANDDAUGHTER, MELISSA NOW, AS IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN. SHE WAS ON PROBATION FOR THEFT, YET TAUGHT SUNDAY SCHOOL? TAUGHT SUNDAY SCHOOL? SHE SHOULD HAVE BEEN IN SUNDAY SCHOOL LEARNING AND PRACTICING PRINCIPLES TAUGHT TO HER. AN 8 YR OLD CHILD IS DEAD. IT IS TIME FOR YOU TO SET AN EXAMPLE AND STEP OFF THE PULPIT AND EXAMINE WHAT PART YOU PLAYED AND WHAT RESPONSIBILITY YOU NEED TO ASSUME BEFORE PREACHING TO ANYONE.



Date:
4/11/2009
Time:
7:41:06 AM
Remote User:
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Hopefully your not all Christians who are writing on this site for you don't act like one. This is a problem with christianity today. We as believers act like the world. We are judgmental without information and most of our comments have no biblical soundness. WAIT ON THE LORD! We jump ahead and become judge, jury, and executioner. God will reveal it all in His time. Whoever committed this crime the Bible says, "Be sure your sins will find you out." EVEN THOSE WRITING ON THIS SITE. "If you break one law you broken them all."



Date:
4/11/2009
Time:
8:10:36 AM
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Comments
is is possible that the granddaughter is taking the rap for her grandfather because he is of age?



Date:
4/11/2009
Time:
8:30:27 AM
Remote User:
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god

continued

 Church Guestbook Posts - Pastor Lane Lawless
Date:
4/11/2009
Time:
8:41:08 AM
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update the trail of blood page on this website to show Melissa Huckaby's murderous trail - from the trailer park to the church to the pond where a good christian like her dumped the body. Rot in hell Melissa. http://www.biblepreaching.com/chart.html



Date:
4/11/2009
Time:
8:44:23 AM
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May The LORD God Almighty Jesus Christ be sought in sincerity and truth during these last days. Sincerely in The LORD and ONLY Savior Jesus Christ, Stephen and Bonita Ann Richie Living Hope In Jesus www.livinghopeinjesus.com



Date:
4/11/2009
Time:
8:51:22 AM
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This whole thing, being in "grace" and the arrogance of their brand of religion is the One yrue way is just what thw Who said it was back in the 60s "an Eminence Front, it's a put on." "Elder" Lawless wanted her to teach Sunday school even though Melissa was a convicted klepto that's his business but now he has to bear some measure of responsibility for covering up his granddaughter's sins so that he can appear, wait for it, to "be in Grace." What a load of BS! Fred Schwartz thedisbrimstone-dailypitchfork.blogspot.com



Date:
4/11/2009
Time:
9:21:35 AM
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Lets keep in mind this is a nightmare for all families involved. Sandra's family will forever be without her angelic smile and the Lawless family will forever be without their granddaugher, and another child will live a lifetime of horrible gossip over what her mother did to her little friend. Let us try to not be so cruel, have a little mercy and pray for all families involved here as well as the soul of the young lady that managed to do such a horrific thing.



Date:
4/11/2009
Time:
9:29:04 AM
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Amen to THAT!



Date:
4/11/2009
Time:
9:31:09 AM
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We listen to too much media. Do the Christian thing and pray. Do like King David did, he took his complaints to God!



Date:
4/11/2009
Time:
9:40:32 AM
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Bible tells us to becareful in judging for you are in danger of HELL'S FIRE! BE AWARE!!!!!



Date:
4/11/2009
Time:
9:55:24 AM
Remote User:
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God said he who takes a life will have there life taken listen to the bible and do as it says let GOD take care of the GUILTY..



Date:
4/11/2009
Time:
9:59:12 AM
Remote User:
Comments
May GOD BE WITH YOUR GRAND DAUGHTED.



Date:
4/11/2009
Time:
10:13:54 AM
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Comments
I dont understand how a sunday school teacher could murder a child...........



Date:
4/11/2009
Time:
10:19:13 AM
Remote User:
Comments
do not hire killers



Date:
4/11/2009
Time:
10:29:29 AM
Remote User:
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I just cannot believe that a mother would do this to a child. The one who has been arrested is a MOTHER who has herself a CHILD a girl almost Sandra's age....I have no words, I am in total shock, I never saw this coming.. all I can say is that this individual is very ill, suffering from mental illness and extremely dangerous to herself and others..how sad. God bless you Sandra, you are with God now and nothing can harm you!



Date:
4/11/2009
Time:
10:45:05 AM
Remote User:
Comments
I pray for the families involved, the victims and accused. May the Lord be with them all. Dont lose your faith.



Date:
4/11/2009
Time:
10:47:55 AM
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She was on probation for theft, and everyone is freaking out that she was allowed to teach sunday school? The way everyone was talking I thought she had been in jail or prison for some violent crime! Yes a crime is a crime, but there are plenty of people out there who stole something in their youth, was punished for it, and learned from it so they could become better people. Everyone makes mistakes. BUT, if she did it, I am not defending this woman's character, and I would not be at all saddened if someone abused HER and stuffed HER into a suitcase! I am just saying that having a theft conviction does not make one more prone to murder a child. It just makes one more suspect that a person with no record. My thoughts are with Sandra's family and I hope justice finds the killer,one way or another. <Mystique>



Date:
4/11/2009
Time:
11:41:30 AM
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Like I said my old church still lets a sex offender attend. So this doesn't surprise me. I hope she gets the death penalty. I think the pastor needs to resign



Date:
4/11/2009
Time:
11:49:51 AM
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To Pastor and Mrs. Lawless: Prayers and peace be with you. May He give you the peace that surpasses all understanding that His word promises us. To the poster that spoke of loving our enemies.. thank you for bringing the love of Jesus into this. I too will pray for her. Thank you Lord for being with the Cantu family during this difficult trial. May the Lord direct your ways and your path. May His loving arms surround you with a love only He can give.



Date:
4/11/2009
Time:
12:13:48 PM
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Dear Pastor, your grandaughter Melissa deserves no compassion, and may justice be made for the murder of little Sandra Cantu. May God comfort the Chavez-Cantu family and your family too for having a sick murderer in your family. PS: Your grandaughther will burn in hell.



Date:
4/11/2009
Time:
12:22:36 PM
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I really cant say how this will turn out in the end, but I can say that Sandra (2009) did not deserve to die. Any of Gods children does not deserve to die in a violent way. I noticed that some people do suffer from guilt and may speak to much and eventually get themselves arrested. I do not know if the young lady that was arrested is responsible, but as a current investigator student, investigators must go by evidence even if there is a small amount of probable cause. I do pray that the real child killer will get caught due to if this young lady is innocent; there is still a child killer out there. Pastor. Lawless I hope that your family can overcome this tragic event. Sandra family will have to hold this pain forever. Sandra I did not know you but you are my sister in Christ, and I am soooo sorry that your life was took before your time. I know you are an Angel in the Lords arm's. Tell God I love him and I love you. **TM-Hayward, CA.



Date:
4/11/2009
Time:
12:23:37 PM
Remote User:
Comments
May God be with you during this difficult time.



Date:
4/11/2009
Time:
12:30:57 PM
Remote User:
Comments
I pray that God keep the church and church family safe from harm during this difficult time.



Date:
4/11/2009
Time:
1:01:07 PM
Remote User:
Comments
Don't think the cops are done with this....



Date:
4/11/2009
Time:
1:01:13 PM
Remote User:
Comments
Don't think the cops are done with this....



Date:
4/11/2009
Time:
1:07:31 PM
Remote User:
Comments
May your Grand daughter rot in hell..



Date:
4/11/2009
Time:
1:42:37 PM
Remote User:
Comments
Church Webmaster: If you're there, I would shut this part of the website down. It looks as if all of us out her in browser-land are beginning to act as if we've got pitchforks in our hands as we make our rush to judgment. I doubt that most of us actually know anything other than what we're getting from the media. I know that I don't know the families involved; I don't even live in California--though I've heard that it's sometimes called La-La Land. What's that commercial? Happy cows come from California! Except after I saw that commercial, I began seeing footage of California farm workers pushing mad cows around with forklifts, so I'm not so sure that commercial's true. I suppose it's difficult to believe in the principle, "innocent until proven guilty" in times like these, but it is a very American principle. I think instead of acting like the nut-jobs who hang someone first and then find out later that they made a mistake, it might be nice if we actually keep our silence first. Okay. I know that's unfair. But why all the pitchforks and the burn in hell comments? Talk about a rush to judgment! That said, I've read through the materials in the website and I do think that your church could do a better job of communicating to your intended audience(s). If you want to attract people to your church, your first order of business should be not to go around insulting people. For example, by painting the Catholics with such a broad brush, you do little to actually attract some searching people to your church. Why would someone who was raised Catholic and may be beginning to look for another church home choose to go to your church, when so much of what you've written is about what's wrong with Catholicism. Even if a Catholic is questioning his/her own doctrine, you can bet that they have strong affiliations to their background. You need to learn the art of rhetoric--not in the sense of "nothing but rhetoric" but in the sense of Aristotle and his definition of using the all the means at hand to effectively communicate. As for the posters to this page, many of you also lack communication skills. You sound more like a bunch of barbarians in your rush to judgment than thinking people who actually believe in America and the rule of law. I refuse to join the fray on whether the grandfather had a role to play. My sense is that a lot more freaky things are going on in the general public than in most churches--Catholic or Protestant. Sometimes these things do show up in churches since churches are meeting grounds for imperfect people. I've actually seldom heard of a church that claims perfection for itself, although I'm sure there are some. Most churches say the opposite--that we're all sinners and need Christ. That's called humility. I think that what I've observed is that there's a lot more judgment going on in the wider world, where people are not motivated to live for something/someone above themselves but instead are gods unto themselves. Have you ever run into anyone with a god complex? It's a terrible thing. I think we all have a little bit of that in us, but if you meet someone who truly thinks they need no else, get out of the way as fast as you can. Not only are you dealing with an ego but also someone who wants every choice they make to be without consequences. I think that those who have asked us to not rush to judgment and not to be judgmental are actually quite wise. I hope that there voices will win the day in this space that has temporarily been taken over by a largely unthinking, uncritical mob who, in their hearts, must not really believe that we're innocent until proven guilty. That said, I can't help thinking that the grand daughter is guilty. I simply have to tell myself that this is not the time to declare it so. Whoever is guilty will face justice eventually.



Date:
4/11/2009
Time:
1:51:17 PM
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11 April 09 Please know that my prayers are with Pastor Lawless and his family and with the church during this trying time. May the Lord bless & keep you. 1Pe 1:7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ: Dan (from an independent Baptist Church in Canada) www.urbancommunity.com



Date:
4/11/2009
Time:
1:52:00 PM
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11 April 09 Please know that my prayers are with Pastor Lawless and his family and with the church during this trying time. May the Lord bless & keep you. 1Pe 1:7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ: Dan (from an independent Baptist Church in Canada) www.urbancommunity.com



Date:
4/11/2009
Time:
2:19:57 PM
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There are many in this forum / guest book thare automatically assuming that Pastor Lawless is guilty of something. Is ignoring scripture the sign of a Christian - NO! Matt 7:1 says Judge Not as does Luk 6:37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven: Others have stated that Pastor Lawless is a coward - but not one of those have had the courage to identify themselves. That makes it pretty clear who the cowards are. I don't know the full story and neither do most of you - so don't jump to unsupported conclusions. If you are a true Christian you should be praying for ALL those involved - if you are not please remember that God forgives and that every one of you is just as guilty in God's eyes as the perpetrator of this - but know that God is willing and able to forgive you through Faith in His Son Christ Jesus and His sacrafice for us on the cross at Calvary. All you have to do is believe on Him, confess to Him (not to anyone else) that you are a sinner and ask Him to save you from your sins. That is all! There is nothing else to do - Christ did it for us by His death and ressurrection and that is the only way to God. I am a sinner, no better or worse in God's sight than anyone else who has ever lived - but I AM SAVED BY GRACE through our Lord Jesus Christ. And I am willing to let God judge. So to those who place comments here - examine yourself first and let God and the authorities do the rest. Dan, Vancouver BC Canada



Date:
4/11/2009
Time:
2:52:20 PM
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Some of the comments left by so-called "Christians" are simply nauseating. Implying that Sandra Cantu died as "punishment" because of the state of America or claiming that killing a child is no worse than any other action because of "sin." Yeah, maybe that's true in Psychopath Land, but in the real world, normal people recognize that killing a child is a million times worse than, say, telling a little white lie. Anyone who engages in moral relativism like that is a sociopath, and then I wonder what exactly they're capable of.



Date:
4/11/2009
Time:
3:02:02 PM
Remote User:
Comments
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continued

Church Guestbook Posts - Pastor Lane Lawless
Date:
4/11/2009
Time:
3:16:28 PM
Remote User:
Comments
There is so many sick people in the US. So many children kidnapped and molested, and also killed (or never to be found again) Is it thrue that a child goes missing every 20 sec in the US? Crazy...we do not have this problem here, I live in Norway. Its very rare in my country. So, they arrested a woman for killing Sandra... I hope they got the right person. We can not let anyone (mental ill or not) get away with murdering children. An eye for an eye, thats what I say. I will pray for the family that lost their little angle. Rip little one.



Date:
4/11/2009
Time:
3:24:38 PM
Remote User:
Comments
My brain can not understand why...why take this little girls life ...my heart can not understand how... how anyone can kill a child... The one who killed Sandra must be put away and we will have to throw away the key. For ever.



Date:
4/11/2009
Time:
4:00:01 PM
Remote User:
Comments
Christianity would be great it if weren't for Christians- Gandi. The same can be said about his religion too. Comes down, for each person, to the relationship between "You and God, and you and God's people." May God help us all.



Date:
4/11/2009
Time:
4:05:30 PM
Remote User:
Comments
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Date:
4/11/2009
Time:
4:10:58 PM
Remote User:
Comments
http://www.ksbw.com/video/19153334/index.html



Date:
4/11/2009
Time:
4:39:22 PM
Remote User:
Comments
funny. a chick did it? grandkid of the pastor? what kind of inbred bowhick shit goes on out in that cesspool of a town? you folks are all really fuckin creepy.



Date:
4/11/2009
Time:
4:40:41 PM
Remote User:
Comments
I amazed that this website is still up. I think the "good Pastor" was aware of the crime. No doubt the investigators are looking in to that. Glad that they caught the perp, but she made it easy by being a dimwit. She deserves to burn in Hell (if there is such a place - how could a true "god" allow such evil to happen?)



Date:
4/11/2009
Time:
4:55:12 PM
Remote User:
Comments
Don't blame granddad for what Melissa did. Clearly she had some issues, demonstrated by her past record. Anyone who knew this pastor and has been interviewed has had only excellent things to say about his character. The fact that he is not closing this website may well be a sign of his personal faith in his god and let the cards fall where they fall. He seems to have brought Melissa into his home in order to help her out since she was clearly having issues. She appears to be extremely deceptive in many ways and I have no problem accepting that she also deceived both the pastor and his wife, who seem to me to be well-intentioned persons who have probably been devastated by the results as anyone else. I'm not religious, but I doubt very much that grandpa and grandma had anything to do with the tragedy and I also fear that this pastor is leaving this site up primarily because he does have a deep faith in his god and is willing to accept whatever, and has no intention of running away from what his god plans for him. To me, that is a real sign of deep faith, even though I cannot imagine how any person can have faith like that. I bow to this pastor for his seeming strength of faith in what he stands for.



Date:
4/11/2009
Time:
5:07:50 PM
Remote User:
Comments
If every one of you human beings here, who were gifted with a brain and a pair of eyes, would use them instead of babbling on about praying and 2,000 year-old NONSENSE, maybe our children would be afforded REAL protection rather than your make-believe invisible world crap. Grow the hell up humanity. THIS is the world you LIVE in - not the imaginary one you pretend exists because your lives are so meaningless. Sandra Cantu was loved by her parents and lived a wonderful happy life - that's the important thing. What's left for us to deal with is the aftermath of some sick twisted hag who will not burn in hell because there isn't one, but who will punished by our legal system in the way that we demand.



Date:
4/11/2009
Time:
5:11:08 PM
Remote User:
Comments
Pastor please save taxpayer money and give up, we ALL know how churches are nowadays...



Date:
4/11/2009
Time:
5:12:04 PM
Remote User:
Comments
So...the apparent murderer was raised a "Christian"...in a "Christian" family. Why is it that most of our murderers, rapists, serial killers, and child molestors are always "Christians"? Jesus Christ must be rolling over in his grave at what "Christians" have done to his teachings...nothing but a bunch of extremist right-wing wackos now. It's now clearly obvious that Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Pat Robertson, and James Dobson are the dark agents of the DEVIL.



Date:
4/11/2009
Time:
5:20:39 PM
Remote User:
Comments
Wow. Judging from the amount of guilt-by-association vitriol being directed towards this pastor--who apparently had no knowledge of the crime--I think we can safely pronounce Puritanism alive and well in the postmodern world.



Date:
4/11/2009
Time:
5:26:45 PM
Remote User:
Comments
Please shut this part of the website down. I can't believe so many people are so quick to judge and condemn when they themselves don't have all the facts. This is WHY I left the church all together. Hypocrites who want to run around screaming "burn in hell" when you don't have the right to judge others. My condolences to all involved.



Date:
4/11/2009
Time:
5:31:58 PM
Remote User:
Comments
What good would come from shutting this site down? Freedom of expression, no matter how much you hate what is being expressed, is freedom, period. You have no right to demand that this be closed simply because you don't like what you hear. Freedom of expression is just that, unless suppressed by people who don't like what they hear.



Date:
4/11/2009
Time:
5:40:40 PM
Remote User:
Comments
And on that note.... Rise up against the Obama Regime



Date:
4/11/2009
Time:
5:41:47 PM
Remote User:
Comments
So many Christians so quick to judge and condemn...very sad. This is a horrible situation, but all the facts have not been revealed. What if Huckaby isn't a "monster," but just someone who isn't very smart? What if the little girl died by accident, what if she fell and hit her head? What if the big crime is that Huckaby is someone who exercised extremely poor judgement? She doesn't look very smart, possibly inbred to the point of slight retardation. Florida trailer parks and the Baptist Church don't turn out many deep thinkers. I might be wrong, maybe she is the monster people are making her out to be. Maybe she murdered her in cold blood...But I've found that often the world is not as black and white as some people try to believe. Bad people do good things and good people do bad things.



Date:
4/11/2009
Time:
5:49:19 PM
Remote User:
Comments
My prayers and heart go out to the Cantu family. May God be with you. Rest in peace little angel.



Date:
4/11/2009
Time:
5:57:31 PM
Remote User:
Comments
The apple doesn't fall very far from the tree, Where did your granddaughter learn such horrific things? I am quite sure all the skeletons in her familys closet will be in hardback published by bantum books within years end 2010. You better get an attorney now because a wrongfull death lawsuit is heading your way thanks to that demon seed of yours.



Date:
4/11/2009
Time:
6:01:13 PM
Remote User:
Comments
Actually, very sad there are so many christians who want to give this nutjob family the benefit of the doubt. If it was the other way around, you same fools would be screaming for someone's head, now! You apologists are all gross. My heart goes out only to Sandra's family. What a tragedy.



Date:
4/11/2009
Time:
6:13:15 PM
Remote User:
Comments
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Date:
4/11/2009
Time:
6:13:17 PM
Remote User:
Comments
It was nice of you to try to give your criminal grand-daughter a job but not a wise idea. I guess you thought if you kept her with the children, nobody would realize how sick she is. You should know better than to put someone with a criminal record in charge of kids.



Date:
4/11/2009
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6:14:08 PM
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4/11/2009
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6:14:23 PM
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4/11/2009
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6:15:07 PM
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Date:
4/11/2009
Time:
6:16:45 PM
Remote User:
Comments
http://lawlib.ajou.ac.kr/faq/faq_text.a ... 53&TITLES= adagio leukoderma tetartohedry http://lawlib.ajou.ac.kr/faq/faq_text.a ... 58&TITLES= advanced musculature intraluminal http://lawlib.ajou.ac.kr/faq/faq_text.a ... 68&TITLES= barfic oaklet decretal



Date:
4/11/2009
Time:
6:31:06 PM
Remote User:
Comments
As an atheist urbanite, I'm fascinated by this glimpse into the Central Valley of my state - which is, apparently, a place where kind-hearted New Testament-focused folks share pews with vengeance-seeking Old Testament-focused hate-mongers. And where both find comfort and justification in their self-defined Good Book - which, of course, is a rich enough piece of literature to justify everything from "an eye for an eye" to "turn the other cheek."



Date:
4/11/2009
Time:
6:38:44 PM
Remote User:
Comments
May God be with the family of Sandra Cantu. My heart breaks for you. God will take care of the rest. She is in heaven playing with all the other children no more pain. I also pray for the Lawless faimly. The ones that were evil and committed this horrible crime will be punished by God. That is all that matters.



Date:
4/11/2009
Time:
6:50:48 PM
Remote User:
Comments
"Judge not lest ye be judged." God will judge those who require judgement. I PRAY for all involved in this atrocious situation. Little Sandra's family especially. I also pray for the Lawless family. God does not ALLOW this to happen to children...anyone. He has allowed free will to mankind. Men and women CHOOSE to act in this horrific manner. God is protecting Sandra now.



Date:
4/11/2009
Time:
6:54:34 PM
Remote User:
Comments
I am not sure where the webmaster is, and why this site has not been taken down, but let me respond on behalf of this church in Tracy. My name is Chad Whiteley, and I am the pastor of another Missionary Baptist Church in California. We are still unclear what happened during this case, and the police have not given any clear indication of what exactly occurred. The Sunday school teacher has no history of violence, but likely should not have been teaching this class considering her recent criminal activity. However, Pastor Lawless had nothing to do with this death and would have had no idea that Huckaby would have done this. This was a surprise to everyone, including the Cantu family. If Huckaby maliciously murdered Cantu, then Huckaby should receive the death penalty. The scriptures are clear on this. The scriptures are also clear that a murderer does not have eternal life. There is forgiveness at the foot of the cross for all murderers, but they must come by way of the cross to obtain it. Christians, be in prayer for the church in Tracy. Atheists, please treat your neighbors with kindness. My heart is crushed for the Cantu family, and we must keep them in prayer. My heart is also crushed for the church. Most of all, my heart is crushed because this damages the testimony of the Lord. I am just praying that people will look beyond these actions and still see Jesus. Remember that Sandra's spirit rests in the arms of Jesus tonight, and she is witnessing what we wait to witness - the face of our glorious savior.



Date:
4/11/2009
Time:
7:06:02 PM
Remote User:
Comments
I think it's time to shut the website down for awhile. Let everybody cool off. The comments here are coming from the "lynch mob" mentality. Very few comments here seem to be based on logic. Even the "Christians" here are posting hateful comments. When emotion becomes so strong, it is hard to have any clarity on the situation. This website will exceed its bandwidth shortly anyway...



Date:
4/11/2009
Time:
7:06:46 PM
Remote User:
Comments
I do not understand why this woman would do such a thing and I am curious as to how they centered their investigation on her. I would have thought it would have been a man. For this Pastor and the rest of his family, I am sorry for what you are now going through, but for Sandra's family I pray justice is done for this beautiful little girl!



Date:
4/11/2009
Time:
7:15:51 PM
Remote User:
Comments
Someone in the pastors family killed Sandra. Most likely his piece of garbage grandaughter. If anyone has ever questioned if satan was real well he is look at the lady that killed Sandra. This pastor has a lot of nerve letting garbage teach Sunday School. I bet her child was born out of wed and has no father. Poor Sandra that is the only person we should be feeling sorry for.
 (http://qpaisyjgfcbj.com/)

continued

Church Guestbook Posts - Pastor Lane Lawless
Date:
4/11/2009
Time:
7:47:08 PM
Remote User:
Comments
As a faithful Member of the Church and blood relative of a Christian leader, the granddaughter was merely doing the Lord's work. The child must have been possessed of the Devil. May she repent in Hell and accept the Lord as her Savior. It is beyond our small minds to question the ways of God. All must repent before Judgement Day, mostly the Godless President Barck Hussein Obama.



Date:
4/11/2009
Time:
8:03:18 PM
Remote User:
Comments
To EVERYONE grieving the loss of this little girl; Are you a Bible reader? I ask because there are so many scriptures that I have derived comfort from (after the loss of my mother); and I just wanted to share some with you! Regarding our loved ones lost in death John 5:28,29 assures us that we will see our loved ones again, right here on Earth. Only without the pain and suffering! (Revelation 21:4) Please take some time today and read these scriptures in your own personal copy of the Bible. This will help to strengthen you, spiritually, during this time of mourning. People are often confused about why people die. They sometimes question if a “loving God” even exists. Many people are given many reasons regarding why a person died; where that person is now; is that person suffering; and will we ever see that person again. Many people do not realize that the Bible answers all of these questions. As I mentioned before, there will be a day when pain and suffering will be a thing of the past. At that time the wickedness of this society will also be gone (Psalm 37:10,11) and we will be able to enjoy life to the fullest (…and death will be no more, Rev.21:4) I hope that you choose to read these scriptures from your own Bible and meditate on how they can affect your life. Please write back to me and share your thoughts. I added the scriptures to the bottom of this letter so you can have a quick reference to them. I volunteer my time helping other individuals and families in their search for accurate Bible knowledge (1 Tim. 2:4). This is my wish for you and your family! With sincere sympathy Rick John 5:28,29: 28 Do not marvel at this, because the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice 29 and come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life, Revelation 21:4 4 And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.” Psalm 37: 10,11 10 And just a little while longer, and the wicked one will be no more; And you will certainly give attention to his place, and he will not be. 11 But the meek ones themselves will possess the earth, And they will indeed find their exquisite delight in the abundance of peace 1 Timothy 2;4 4 whose will is that all sorts of men should be saved and come to an accurate knowledge of truth



Date:
4/11/2009
Time:
8:08:17 PM
Remote User:
Comments
Please be assured of our prayers at this most trying time for you, your family, your faith family, those who are especially hurting now, and your community-at-large! Pastor Stan Ponz International Baptist Church Honolulu, HI



Date:
4/11/2009
Time:
8:13:40 PM
Remote User:
Comments
To anyone having a hard time understanding the times we are struggling to live through; the senseless killings, the complete unstable situation of world affairs etc... I would like to either offer you a free bible study, or at least send you the study book. Contact me if you are interested. I am a Bible instructor and I would be very happy to volunteer my time in helping you to cope with your feelings. Rick rickfernande@gmail.com



Date:
4/11/2009
Time:
8:14:54 PM
Remote User:
Comments
To anyone having a hard time understanding the times we are struggling to live through; the senseless killings, the complete unstable situation of world affairs etc... I would like to either offer you a free bible study, or at least send you the study book. My name is Rick. Contact me if you are interested. I am a Bible instructor and I would be very happy to volunteer my time in helping you to cope with your feelings. rickfernande@gmail.com



Date:
4/11/2009
Time:
8:20:50 PM
Remote User:
Comments
Perhaps it's time for the pastor and congregation to look deep within their hearts to consider the evil that has been among them. This church needs to be closed. Sandra, rest in peace and may your family find comfort in your memory. Our hearts ache.



Date:
4/11/2009
Time:
8:25:23 PM
Remote User:
Comments
This "pastor" needs to resign immediately and get out of town. Complicit in the murder of a child.



Date:
4/11/2009
Time:
8:27:04 PM
Remote User:
Comments
May God be with all of those suffering. May Sandra's family find comfort in God. My the Pastor and his wife stay strong and faithful. May Melissa, if truly guilty, admit her sins and cooperate so there is some kind of closure. Lastly may God bless and have mercy on those who decide to judge.



Date:
4/11/2009
Time:
8:30:20 PM
Remote User:
Comments
Maybe since this board is so open, we should be caring and stating things like, God is Good, Man/Woman is not, about how we need to stay on God in times like these. That we need to Trust and await the Blessed Hope... and that we must tell others... in that case don't shut it down because the next person could end up with the message of inspiration we all need.



Date:
4/11/2009
Time:
8:30:51 PM
Remote User:
Comments
I wonder what the pastor is going to preach about tomorrow.



Date:
4/11/2009
Time:
8:32:31 PM
Remote User:
Comments
My thoughts and prayers are with the family of Sandra Cantu. My heart also goes out to the Pastor and his family. It saddens me that no one could see just how sick Melissa is before she harmed an innocent child. As much as I want to see Melissa punished for the horrific crime, more than that, I would like to get inside her head and find out exactly how one could hurt a child. Just not a concept I can grasp. Rest in peace Little Sandra. You are in good hands now.



Date:
4/11/2009
Time:
8:36:32 PM
Remote User:
Comments
May all who profess Christ examine their hearts and consider the actions of their lives to see if there is really evidence there of the presence of Christ. This tragic case of violence is a rebuke. Let every Christian seriously consider Christ and attend to repentance, because God is near to those of a contrite heart. And may those who do not know Christ find a way through the counterfeits to genuine faith in Him. But this is a good time for soul searching and repentance before God and change. Sandra, you are not forgotten, and may God be the abiding comfort of your family and friends.



Date:
4/11/2009
Time:
8:44:43 PM
Remote User:
Comments
way to employ a child murderer you sick fucks. but i guess it's not the first time, and certainly not the last, that someone dies meaninglessly by the hand of one of god's sheep.



Date:
4/11/2009
Time:
9:00:51 PM
Remote User:
Comments
There is some very scary things being written on this site. How could someone's grandparents be responsible for the choices a grandchild made? I don't believe Melissa was actually the Sunday School teacher here. See www.blinkoncrime.com. If you check further into this website she is also not listed at the SS teacher. The grandparents are older people and I am sure they wanted to see the good in their granddaughter. She sounds like a mentally ill or drug addicted, manipulator. May God help her. I will continue praying for all families involved here.



Date:
4/11/2009
Time:
9:02:55 PM
Remote User:
Comments
I think real Christians would be praying their hearts out right now for Melissa Huckaby.



Date:
4/11/2009
Time:
9:06:35 PM
Remote User:
Comments
I just wanted to add that after a long time reading these posts, I found that the one by Chad Whiteley was the best one I have read yet because even though he is a pastor, he does not come on here trying to use this as an opportunity to bash "non-believers" or spout scripture. What he said was fair, kind and considerate. He spoke to Christians and atheists (considering that is the variety shown in all the postings), and was not judgemental. I don't personally know any of these folks, but I just liked the post. <mystique>



Date:
4/11/2009
Time:
9:11:58 PM
Remote User:
Comments
I just read that this pastor has been with this church for 30 years and that the congregation has about 20 members. What does that tell ya? Time to shut the place down.



Date:
4/11/2009
Time:
9:54:28 PM
Remote User:
Comments
God bless you Pastor Lawless psalms 46: says God is our refuge and strength,very present help in trouble. He promised never to leave or forsake you. I will keep you and your family in my prayers. Lucy



Date:
4/12/2009
Time:
12:31:04 AM
Remote User:
Comments
Shell shocked and freaked out. Prayers for Sandra



Date:
4/12/2009
Time:
12:38:19 AM
Remote User:
Comments
I agree, This is getting out of hand, Web-Master need to cut this off soon as possible. You do not need to see this. concern Christian from the Midwest Today lets all focus on one thing "Our Lord has Risen" Happy Easter!



Date:
4/12/2009
Time:
1:19:56 AM
Remote User:
Comments
There is no webmaster to this site, it's a basic cut and paste webpage before last week there was maybe 8 post in 9 years, I hope someone with web experience would offer to donate a little time and make them a real page.



Date:
4/12/2009
Time:
1:43:12 AM
Remote User:
Comments
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Date:
4/12/2009
Time:
2:58:12 AM
Remote User:
Comments
to thee killer, i hope you burn in hell, and on earth as well.



Date:
4/12/2009
Time:
3:17:30 AM
Remote User:
Comments
I am a Mother who lives in Southern California and I have an 8 year old beautiful girl that is also in 2nd grade in Southern California - my daughter's birthday is March 15, 2001 very close to Sandra's birthday on March 8th, 2001. And Sandra's pictures reminds me alot of my daughter's features. My daughter weighs the same as Sandra 45 lbs., and same height. My daughter has long light brown hair, brown eyes, very friendly & bubbly just like how Sandra was described in all media. This news has hit hard for me, if you can imagine, and I have been following all developments since March 27th. I come from a Catholic family. The death of Sandra has left me sleepless, crying over Sandra, especially watching Maria Chavez on Today show unable to speak on T.V. It could have easily been my daughter as well as any other parent's kids. I wish I can fly to Tracy, California right now and go to Maria Chavez and just be with her and comfort her thru this unimaginable loss. I would like to attend the memorial as well but, it is simply impossible for me to do this. I will send Maria letters, cards of sympathy, flowers. All I can say right now is - if Melissa would have done this to my daughter - I meanswhile throw my Catholic religion away and have no religion, because I would be willing to spend the rest of my time in jail to make sure I kill Melissa myself. Probably the way she killed Sandra. An eye for an eye in this matter would be justice for me. Its a good thing, the cops can protect her when she comes to court, because if she wasnt protected in court, I would make sure I would fly to Tracy, CA during her court trial and make sure Melissa is shot to death right in front of Sandra's family. I dont have to be an investigator. I am a Mother. I know she did it. Dont need proof. Her house was the last place Sandra was at. And Melissa was the last to see Sandra. And of course, the suitcase. What thieve is so interested in stealing a suitcase in a trailer park where everyone supposively knows everyone? and why would a suitcase be left in a driveway? When have we ever heard in the news/internet that a suitcase was stolen? And why would you even report a suitcase stolen? Doesnt make any sense to me. As a Mother of an 8 year old, this is what I think happened: 1. Melissa probably thought Sandra hurt the 5 year old's feelings during playtime, so Melissa lashed out at Sandra and went psycho and killed her. 2. Or Sandra saw something in the trailer park she wasnt suppose to see 3. or a male figure (not the Grandfather) molested Sandra and therefore, Melissa decides to cover up. Theres a tiny part in me that says it could have been an accident where Melissa snapped and hit Sandra too hard and panicked and decided to cover up evidence. Either way, I truly believe, as a Mother that Melissa is entirely responsible for this. Therefore, I wish for the Death Penalty or the Electric Chair. However, if I had a choice - it wouldn't be a shotgun to Melissa's head. It would be Melissa being thrown to a pool of great white sharks. Or crocodiles. Or maybe just stuffing her in a suitcase ALIVE and then submerging her into a similar pond. Thank You.



Date:
4/12/2009
Time:
3:49:05 AM
Remote User:
Comments
Again, I am the Mother of an 8 year old girl in Southern California.........I'd like to continue, I don't believe that the Pastor had anything to do with Sandra's murder in the trailer home or church (wherever the murder took place), I firmly believe it was solely Melissa or a male sibling of Melissa's. I think that the Pastor & his wife were not around to witness this murder and had no knowledge of this when it happened in the home or church. I believe it happened quickly. I believe it would be in the best interest for the Pastor & his wife to move away & seclude themselves after all the court hearings. Because if they don't, I dont think they will live too long in that Trailer park. I am quite sure there is many people out there that will be after Pastor & his entire family for a long time to come for revenge. You can pray all you want, as of now....the Pastor & his family will not be safe at that Trailer home. I think Gangster Mafia will come in place, if not, just angry people. Last but not least, when it comes to murdering/kidnapping children, a sentence to Life in Prison is way too easy and doesnt seem like justice to me. I believe the Justice System should make an exception for all children murderers/kidnappers/pedophiles - that it should be an automatic death sentence asap, not 5 years from now. It should come the day after the jury convicts the murderer.



Date:
4/12/2009
Time:
4:29:29 AM
Remote User:
Comments
It's so informative to read all of these good "Christian" remarks posted here. Now that the pastor is not guilty, those of you who judged him guilty and recommended his form of punishment should be ashamed. You are pathetic, ignorant hypocrites and you're wasting your time in church because you obviously haven't learned anything in all of the time you've spent there. Most of you are mere Sunday Christians who forget God's teachings the minute you leave the church.



Date:
4/12/2009
Time:
4:56:38 AM
Remote User:
Comments
Person who just said "Now that we know pastor is not guilty"...who knows anything as of yet? Just because it was his daughter who was arrested and not him does NOT mean he was not involved or knew about it. His only role could have been to just stay quiet about his knowledge of what happened. Maybe he really is completely innocent, but my point is that it's a bit early for people to start demanding apologies in defense of who they THINK is an innocent person. Of course, maybe when this thing first started it was a bit early for everyone to attack the man as well, however the cops sure knew he was connected somehow, and they were right. The public had reason to think he was guilty, but so far there is nothing that indicates he did not know about what happened to Sandra. <Mystique>



Date:
4/12/2009
Time:
5:14:41 AM
Remote User:
Comments
My heart goes out to your church in the wake of this tragedy. We will keep your church family in our prayers. M. Jackson



Date:
4/12/2009
Time:
6:26:39 AM
Remote User:
Comments
This never happened when George W. Bush was in office! Time to take back our country. Continue to vote Republican and put Christian back into the United States of America.



Date:
4/12/2009
Time:
7:09:35 AM
Remote User:
Comments
Right! This MUST be Obama's fault. You're so ignorant that you shouldn't even be allowed to vote. What were you? A grade school dropout? I sure hope you haven't been bred. God save us from ourselves.



Date:
4/12/2009
Time:
7:25:44 AM
Remote User:
Comments
I cannot believe what people are writing on here!! I have chosen not to read most of it because I feel this family and the church are also victims. You are all too quick to judge! This is exactly why in Canada, we do not hear any details of a police investigation until trial has begun. The media is not a court room and no one's name should be dragged through the mud. We all have bad seeds in our family (though probably not killers). I am thinking about Melissa's daughter on this Easter sunday as well as the Cantu family. Pastor, I hope your family gets through this alright. Laurie in Alberta, Canada.
 (http://ngvoopqu.com)

continued

Church Guestbook Posts - Pastor Lane Lawless
Date:
4/12/2009
Time:
7:28:21 AM
Remote User:
Comments
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Date:
4/12/2009
Time:
7:29:00 AM
Remote User:
Comments
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Date:
4/12/2009
Time:
7:31:15 AM
Remote User:
Comments
Pastor, I am terribly sorry that your life has been turned upside down and I hope that the media will let up soon for you and your family. Jayda Langley, BC



Date:
4/12/2009
Time:
7:31:36 AM
Remote User:
Comments
Uh, I really hope that "vote Republican" post was some misguided, lame attempt at a joke. Either way, what a jackass move. Trivializing a tragedy and throwing in weird inappropriate statements that have nothing to do with anything and yet are caustic and inflammatory. Nice. Happy Easter, douchebag.



Date:
4/12/2009
Time:
7:37:30 AM
Remote User:
Comments
praying for you in this difficult time! L Bergquist



Date:
4/12/2009
Time:
8:06:35 AM
Remote User:
Comments
Dearest Pastor Lane Lawless & Connie, Just a short note to express to you and your extended family including Melissa that you are all in my thoughts and prayers. God Bless you all, and may His Faith help comfort your heavy hearts. Please take care of one another and also find some comfort and strength in knowing that you are in the prayers of strangers...like me.



Date:
4/12/2009
Time:
8:51:29 AM
Remote User:
Comments
To the person who wrote "This never happened while Bush was in office.": What planet have you been on? Caylee Anthony is just one of MANY! Do some research on missing children on the internet! This is not a problem created by Republican or Democrat. Unfortunately, there are too many sick & disturbed individuals that target young children.



Date:
4/12/2009
Time:
9:43:41 AM
Remote User:
Comments
Prayers on Easter Sunday



Date:
4/12/2009
Time:
9:55:39 AM
Remote User:
Comments
Where are the apologies? To all you self-appointed criminology experts who slandered, tried and condemned the pastor and his wife, where are your apologies? Now that you've been proven wrong you slink away like the jackals that you are.



Date:
4/12/2009
Time:
9:55:57 AM
Remote User:
Comments
Where are the apologies? To all you self-appointed criminology experts who slandered, tried and condemned the pastor and his wife, where are your apologies? Now that you've been proven wrong you slink away like the jackals that you are.



Date:
4/12/2009
Time:
11:14:18 AM
Remote User:
Comments
In all this mudslinging we seem to have forgotten that Melissa has a 5 year old daughter. She is the one who needs our prayers, to have to grow up with THIS. (Never mind that it is possible that she was also victimized by abuse). For anyone to insinuate that Sandra Cantu was evil and Melissa was carrying out God's work is reprehensible. RIP Sandra. God bless and comfort your parents and family at this time.



Date:
4/12/2009
Time:
11:21:48 AM
Remote User:
Comments
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Date:
4/12/2009
Time:
11:23:03 AM
Remote User:
Comments
Wow I can not believe all these message about a pastor from people who call them selves Christan's. I hope every one who jumped to conclusions are ashamed of themselves. He was judge and convicted by so many before they even knew why the police were at the church. So let me get this straight a man who has given his whole life to the church is now gulty of crimes his grown grandchildren commit. True Christans will be praying for him as I'm sure he has done for other who have had family member commit terrible crimes. Fresno Ca.



Date:
4/12/2009
Time:
12:52:01 PM
Remote User:
Comments
You are in our prayers



Date:
4/12/2009
Time:
1:24:49 PM
Remote User:
Comments
Dear Pastor and Mrs. Lawless, We are Independent Baptist missionaries in Chile, South America and we've been watching the news on the internet. Just wanted to say that we are praying for you and that our hearts are broken with you over the arrest of your granddaughter. You didn't do wrong when you took her in and tried to help her. Just remember that God has a reason for all of this and that our trials are used to bring patience into our lives. Then rejoice in the Lord always, give thanks in everything and pray and God promises to give you that "peace that passeth all understanding." We don't always understand the "why" but we do know that "all things work together for our good." We are praying for you and asking God to bless your ministry in a great way through all of this. Tom and Connie Robertson



Date:
4/12/2009
Time:
1:25:00 PM
Remote User:
Comments
Dear Pastor and Mrs. Lawless, We are Independent Baptist missionaries in Chile, South America and we've been watching the news on the internet. Just wanted to say that we are praying for you and that our hearts are broken with you over the arrest of your granddaughter. You didn't do wrong when you took her in and tried to help her. Just remember that God has a reason for all of this and that our trials are used to bring patience into our lives. Then rejoice in the Lord always, give thanks in everything and pray and God promises to give you that "peace that passeth all understanding." We don't always understand the "why" but we do know that "all things work together for our good." We are praying for you and asking God to bless your ministry in a great way through all of this. Tom and Connie Robertson



Date:
4/12/2009
Time:
1:54:41 PM
Remote User:
Comments
It is interesting to read all of the angry dribble all over this page. It is also sad that most of those who are writing know nothing of the "truth". It is sad indeed that this child's life was lost, but God uses such things to help teach, to expose the world for what it is, and to draw those who do know him closer to him. No sin is greater than any other sin, it is all simply sin. Murder is sin, lieing is sin (and a lie is anything that is told that is not true), seeking to decieve is sin (funny how we don't think that way in tax time). Sin is sin. When the angry mob drug the adultress before Jesus, he said "He who is without sin cast the first stone..." I wonder what he would say to thos of you whow would drag Melissa before him? The words seem to fit well "He who is without sin cast the first stone..." No one even know yet what happened, being charged with something does not mean that you committed the crime. The only judge there is sits on a throne, and it is not of this world.



Date:
4/12/2009
Time:
2:34:28 PM
Remote User:
Comments
How do you people know beyond a shadow of a doubt that she did it? Just because she was arrested? Just because the media said so?Just because there was a lie? Whatever happened to listening to all the facts? I feel for this poor lady. She won't have a fair trial anywhere near Tracy if you've already condemned her and her family. It'll have to be moved to Southern Cal or something like that. Stop being so judgemental until after you hear all the facts. I feel bad for both families, for the church etc to have to go through this.



Date:
4/12/2009
Time:
2:34:37 PM
Remote User:
Comments
Need a Bush back in office, The Obama Regime has stated we are no longer a christian nation and bow's to the king of Saudi. Also point out he has made no mention/statement of the pirated boat captain but has plenty of time to talk about mortages and stimulus (or lack there of) We NEED a REVOLUTION!!!



Date:
4/12/2009
Time:
4:10:57 PM
Remote User:
Comments
Spout your ignorant, irrational and irrelevant political rantings somewhere else, asshole.



Date:
4/12/2009
Time:
4:17:30 PM
Remote User:
Comments
Bush, Obama, Somali pirates, mortgages??? What does that have to do with anything? You are even crazier than the person who murdered that innocent child.



Date:
4/12/2009
Time:
4:22:19 PM
Remote User:
Comments
Dear Guests, I am not a Christian. I am shocked how many "guests" cannot wait until all evidence and details are uncovered (before...) Before then, please respect Mr. Lawless and his families. Let's look up for any opportunity to be positive from now on. Let us give the best of ours to Cantu's family first. Let's stop further sadness to others. None of us intend to hurt them adversely. Such as to Mrs. Hukaby's daughter. etc. Provide your positive note if you can. Let's make future days better beginning from today. Please.



Date:
4/12/2009
Time:
4:22:24 PM
Remote User:
Comments
Its about being religeous and morality, what we lack in politics and society... check your money it still says "In God we Trust" it too will be gone soon. I think that was his/her point. Learn to think before you spout off maybe you will do better next time.



Date:
4/12/2009
Time:
4:26:37 PM
Remote User:
Comments
If it was innocent before proven guitly why is she in jail!!! Point being they just need the judge to throw down the hammer and sign off on it. Gomer jurors that dont want to be there and will agree guilt or innocent so they can go back to work and be able to feed their family. Something you cant do while sitting on a panel making 7 bucks a day. OVERHAUL the MUTHA!!



Date:
4/12/2009
Time:
4:41:24 PM
Remote User:
Comments
To those blathering on about politics and such irrelevant topics as what kind of wording is on US currency: This page is for Clover Road Baptist Church. It is not OK for you to use it as a platform for your small-minded, didactic political rantings. Have some respect for the families involved and the congregation of this church. Go back to harassing commenters on the Huffington Post.

Trail Of Blood Chart From Church Website

(http://i578.photobucket.com/albums/ss230/crimecases/cantulawless2.jpg)

looking for the rest of what I copied from the pages of the church site.

wow, I really don't know what to say.

okay I found it so will just copy it all straight onto here the way I copied it into my old notes.  I copied this right off in the begining, so there might be things in there now that we recognize that might not have meant anything at the time.  I'll copy it all then I will go back through with everyone else and see what we can find. 

________________________________________-

copied from the clover road baptist church old website before they changed it.

________________________


Pastor Lane Lawless

(http://i578.photobucket.com/albums/ss230/crimecases/cantulawless1.jpg)



http://www.clover-road-baptist-church.com/

Clover Road Baptist Church
11000 West Clover Road
Tracy, CA 95376
(209)836-4171

WELCOME TO

CLOVER ROAD BAPTIST CHURCH



The Lord is my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer; my God, my strength, in whom I will trust; my buckler, and the horn of my salvation, and my high tower.  Psalm 18:2

scripturalchurch@excite.com 

 Pastor Lane Lawless

Pastor Lane Lawless was saved in Wenatchee, Washington, In April of 1960.  He was baptized July 9, 1960 by the authority of the Eastside Missionary Baptist Church of East Wenatchee. Elder A.A. Harris administered the ordinance.  He was called to the ministry on April 6, 1971 and ordained August 20, 1971 by the Winton MBC.     

Pastor Lawless received his theological education from the Alisal Baptist Institute of Salinas and the Baptist Theological Seminary of Hayward. He also studied under the tutelage of Eld. A.A. Harris.

The churches Elder Lawless has pastored are Beacon MBC of Redding and Grace MBC of Gardena. In 1975, he was sent out by Salinas MBC to do mission work in Eureka. He then pastured Sovereign Grace MBC of Mountain View, and has been pastor at the Clover Road Baptist Church since 1981.

Pastor Lawless' wife, Connie, is the daughter of A.A. and Irene Harris. They were married by Eld. Harris on July 9, 1960 in Modesto, CA. They have three grown children Brian, Brett, and Joni, who are all involved in God's work, and nine beloved grandchildren.

CHURCH SERVICES



And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst. John 6:35

Sunday
Bible Study - 10:45
Worship Service 12:00 & 3:00


Wednesday
Worship Service 7:30

THE TRAIL OF BLOOD
by J. M. Carroll

Then has the trail of blood chart that I posted a few posts up.


By DR. J. M. CARROLL
 ILLUSTRATING the History of the Baptist Churches from the time of their founder, the Lord Jesus Christ, until the 20th Century.

 1. The purpose of this book and chart is to show according to History that Baptists have an unbroken line of churches since Christ and have fulfilled His prophecy -- "I WILL BUILD MY CHURCH AND THE GATES OF HELL SHALL NOT PREVAIL AGAINST IT." In the irregular churches is clearly seen the growth of Catholicism and Protestantism. Baptists are not Protestants since they did not come out of the Catholic Church.

 2. The numbers at the top and bottom represent 20 centuries. The first vertical line is A.D. 1, and the second, A.D. 100, and so on.

 3. The horizontal lines at the bottom have between them the nicknames given to Baptists during the passing years and ages -- Novations, Montanists, Paulicians and Waldenses.

 4. THE RED CIRCLES REPRESENT BAPTIST CHURCHES beginning with the first Church at Jerusalem, founded by Christ during His earthly ministry, and out of which came the churches of Judea, Antioch and others. The red indicates they were persecuted. In spite of the bitterest opposition and persecution Baptist Churches are found in every age. The first nickname given them was Christians, the next Ana-Baptists, and so on. You will notice that the dark ages are represented by a dark space. Even during this time you will notice a continual line of churches called Ana-Baptists. They were continually and bitterly persecuted even unto death by the Catholics. Near the first of the 16th Century the Ana was dropped and they were simply called Baptists.

 5. THE BLACK CIRCLES REPRESENT CHURCHES INTO WHICH ERROR CAME AND ARE THEREFORE CALLED -- IRREGULAR CHURCHES. The first error was in church Government--Pastors assumed authority not given them by Christ. Pastors of larger churches claimed authority over other and smaller churches. Thus in the 3rd Century the Roman Hierarchy was established. The Emperor Constantine issued a call in 313 inviting all churches to send representatives to form a council. The red churches--that is Baptist Churches--refused the invitation but the irregular churches responded. The Emperor was made the head and thus the group of churches known as irregular churches became the State Church. The Emperor continued to head the churches until Leo II claimed authority as the successor of Peter. Thus is seen how the error in church Government developed into Popery. In the 16th Century the Protestant Churches began to come out of the Roman Catholic Church. They are called Protestants because they protested against the errors of Catholicism.

 6. It was in the year 251 that Baptist Churches declared nonfellowship with the irregular churches. They refused to accept Baptism administered in infancy or for Salvation and thus came the oldest nickname--Ana-Baptists which means rebaptizers.

 Copyrighted 1931 by Ashland Avenue Baptist Church, Lexington, Ky.

http://www.biblepreaching.com/chart.html

_____________________

this is linked from the baptist church(lane lawless) page


more

http://www.angelfire.com/oh4/questions4/trail/tobindex.htm

Carroll

(http://i578.photobucket.com/albums/ss230/crimecases/cantulawlesscarroll1.jpg)

ABOUT OUR CHURCH                 

 (http://i578.photobucket.com/albums/ss230/crimecases/cantulawless3.jpg)

In 1957, the Airport MBC of Modesto and the Eastside MBC of Stocton authorized mission work in Tracy. Under this authority, the victory MBC was established and built on property donated to the church. Victory's first pastor was Eld. James Taylor. Eld. Charles Scott began pastoring Victory in 1970.

In 1974, the Landmark MBC of Salinas authorized mission work in Mountain Viewwhich resulted in the formation of the Sovereign Grace MBC. Eld. A.D. harris was their first pastor. After several years of meeting in rented facilities, the church, under the leadership of Eld. Lawles, began to look for a permanent location.

 Meanwhile, the Vicory MBC of Tracy was looking for assistance because of the failing health of Pastor Scott. Victory then approached Eld. Lawless and Sovereign Grace to request he consider a pastorate in Tracy.

 After much prayer by both Victory and Sovereign Grace, the churches voted to merge. In 1981, the members of Victory joined Sovereign Grace, donating their property and assests to the Sovereign Grace Church. We are now known as Clover Road Baptist Church.

 Since that time, we have reaffirmed our statements of faith, as found in the New Hampshire Confessions of Faith, and are committed to preaching God's sovereign grace, through the shed blood of Jesus Christ, by the power of the Holy Spirit.

This post was crazy!

Church Guestbook Posts - Pastor Lane Lawless
Date:
4/11/2009
Time:
7:47:08 PM
Remote User:
Comments
As a faithful Member of the Church and blood relative of a Christian leader, the granddaughter was merely doing the Lord's work. The child must have been possessed of the Devil. May she repent in Hell and accept the Lord as her Savior. It is beyond our small minds to question the ways of God. All must repent before Judgement Day, mostly the Godless President Barck Hussein Obama.

ooops this page was suppose to go before the previous post


ABOUT OUR CHURCH                 

 (http://i578.photobucket.com/albums/ss230/crimecases/cantulawless3.jpg)

In 1957, the Airport MBC of Modesto and the Eastside MBC of Stocton authorized mission work in Tracy. Under this authority, the victory MBC was established and built on property donated to the church. Victory's first pastor was Eld. James Taylor. Eld. Charles Scott began pastoring Victory in 1970.

In 1974, the Landmark MBC of Salinas authorized mission work in Mountain Viewwhich resulted in the formation of the Sovereign Grace MBC. Eld. A.D. harris was their first pastor. After several years of meeting in rented facilities, the church, under the leadership of Eld. Lawles, began to look for a permanent location.

 Meanwhile, the Vicory MBC of Tracy was looking for assistance because of the failing health of Pastor Scott. Victory then approached Eld. Lawless and Sovereign Grace to request he consider a pastorate in Tracy.

 After much prayer by both Victory and Sovereign Grace, the churches voted to merge. In 1981, the members of Victory joined Sovereign Grace, donating their property and assests to the Sovereign Grace Church. We are now known as Clover Road Baptist Church.

 Since that time, we have reaffirmed our statements of faith, as found in the New Hampshire Confessions of Faith, and are committed to preaching God's sovereign grace, through the shed blood of Jesus Christ, by the power of the Holy Spirit.

oh gee, had that post, posted twice on the other board somehow and ended up copying it twice here, sorry

http://svng.com/tracy/


Tracy's
Clover Road Baptist Church
An Independent, Biblical, Landmark, and Missionary - Minded Church.
Eld. Lane Lawless,  Pastor
E-mail
11000 West Clover Road
Tracy, CA  95376
(209) 836-4171
We welcome you to come worship with us.
Services:
Sunday Bible Study - 10:45 a.m.                     
Sunday Worship Service  12:00 & 2:30 p.m. Wednesday Bible Study 7:30 p.m.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

About Our Pastor
 
Pastor Lane Lawless was saved in April of  1960.  He was baptized July 9, 1960, and ordained  August 20, 1971. Pastor Lawless received his theological  education at the Alisal Baptist Institute of Salinas and the Baptist  Theological Seminary of     Hayward.  He also studied under the tutelage of Eld. A.A. Harris. He has been pastor at the Clover Road Baptist Church since 1981.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

About Our Church
 
In 1957, the Airport MBC of Modesto and the Eastside MBC of Stockton  authorized mission work in Tracy. Under this authority, the Victory MBC was  established and built on property donated to the church.  After much prayer by both Victory and  Sovereign Grace, the churches voted to merge.  In 1981, the members of  Victory joined Sovereign Grace, donating their property and assets to the  Sovereign Grace Church. We are now known as Clover Road Baptist Church.   Since that time, we have reaffirmed our statements of faith, as found in the  New Hampshire Confessions of Faith, and are committed to preaching God's  sovereign grace, through the shed blood of Jesus Christ, by the power of the  Holy Spirit.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What We Believe
 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Under construction,  LINKS; use Back to return to this page.
 Church Directory:
Dave's Web Page Service
Weather:
Grace Baptist Mission, Modesto, CA:


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 
Page created by: svngrace@prodigy.net
Changes last made on: Aug. 8, 2004

What We Believe
OUR DECLARATION OF FAITH AND WHAT WE WE BELIEVE THE BIBLE TEACHES.
Return to Home Page


I. OF THE BIBLE

We believe that the Holy Bible was written by men divinely inspired, and is a perfect treasure of heavenly instruction; that it has God for its author, salvation for its end, and truth without any mixture of error, for its matter; that it reveals the principles by which God will judge us; and therefore is, and shall remain to the end of the world, the true center of Christian union, and the supreme standard by which all human conduct, creeds, and opinions should be tried. We recommend and use the King James Version.

II Tim. 3:16, II Pet. 1:21, Matt. 24:35, Psa. 119:105, Psa. 119:140

II. OF GOD

We believe that there is only one true God, who is our God; who is eternal, almighty, unchangeable, infinite, and incomprehensible; who is a Spirit, having His being in Himself, and giveth being to all creatures; He doeth what He will, in heaven and earth; working all things according to the counsel of His own will. In the unity of the Godhead there are three divine persons; the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. They are equal in every divine attribute, and execute distinct but harmonious offices in the great work of redemption.

Deut. 6:13-15, John 4:24, Jere. 10:10-13, Psa. 93:2, Mala. 3:6, Rom. 11:33-36 Psa. 139:1-18, I Pet. 1:16, Matt. 28:19, I John 5:7, Dan. 4:34-35, John 17:2

III. OF THE FALL

We believe that Adam was created in the image and likeness of God, yet he fell through the temptations of Satan; and his fall overthrew, not only himself, but his posterity, making them sinners by his disobedience; so that we are by nature children of wrath, and defiled from the womb, being shapen in iniquity and conceived in sin. This condition is fatal apart from saving grace as man's inbred enmity against God and the satanic blindness of his mind make him unwilling and unable to come to Christ or do any spiritual good.

Gen. 1:27, Gen. 2:16-17, Gen. 3:1-7, Rom. 5:12-19, Isa. 53:6, Eph. 2:1-3, Rom. 3:9-23, John 6:37,44,65

IV. OF THE HOLY SPIRIT

We believe that the Holy Spirit is a divine person, being co-equal with the Father and the Son as the third person of the glorious Trinity. He is the agent of God in the new birth, and comes to dwell continuously in the believer. He seals, teaches, comforts, and sanctifies the child of God. He was active in creation and in the Old Testament economy and now convicts the world of sin, and righteousness, and of judgment to come.

John 16:7-14, John 3:5-8, Eph. 1:13, Gen. 1:2, I Cor. 6:19, II Pet. 1:21

V. OF THE DEVIL

We believe that Satan was perfect in his ways from the day he was created until iniquity was found in him and he enjoyed heavenly honors but, through pride and ambition to be as God, he fell and drew after him a host of angels. He is now the prince of the power of the air, and the unholy god of this world. We hold him to be man's great tempter, the enemy of God, the chief power of the present apostasy, and the lord of the coming Antichrist. He is destined to final defeat at the hand of God's Son, and to eternal judgement in the lake of fire which was prepared for him and his angels.

Isa. 14:12-15, Ezek. 28:11-16, Gen. 3:1-6, II Cor. 11:14-15, Jude 6, II Cor. 4:4, Eph. 2:2, II Thes. 2:8-9, I Pet. 5:8, Rev. 20:10

VI. OF THE WAY OF SALVATION

We believe that the salvation of sinners is wholly of grace; through the mediatorial offices of the Son of God; who by the appointment of the Father, freely took upon Him our nature, yet without sin having been born of a virgin; honored the divine law by His personal obedience, and by His death made a full atonement for the sins of His people: that having risen from the dead He is now enthroned in heaven sitting at the right hand of the Father; and uniting in His wonderful person the tenderest sympathies with divine perfections, He is every way qualified to be a suitable, a compassionate, and an all-sufficient Saviour.

Mt. 1:21-23, Phil. 2:5-11, Mt. 3:17, Isa. 53, Rom. 8:33-34, II Cor. 5:21,17:9, Heb. 12:2, 8:1, Jonah 2:9, Acts 2:30, Heb. 4:15, Heb. 7:25

VII. OF GOD'S PURPOSE OF GRACE

We believe that God elected and chose, in His eternal counsel, some persons to life and salvation, before the foundation of the world, whom accordingly He doth and will effectually call, and whom He doth so call, He will certainly keep by His power, through faith to salvation. We believe that election was free in God, of His own pleasure, and not at all for, or with reference to, any foreseen works of faith in the creature, as the motive thereinto. We believe that all men until they be quickened by Christ are dead in trespasses; and therefore have no power of themselves to believe savingly. But faith is the free gift of God, and the mighty work of God in the soul, even like the rising of Christ from the dead. We believe that God's electing grace comprehends all the means in connection with the end, and utterly excludes boasting but promotes humility, love, prayer, praise, and the active use of means to the highest degree. Election is ascertained by its effects in all who truly receive Christ, and to make our calling and election sure is a duty that demands and deserves our utmost diligence.

Acts 13:48, Eph. 1:2-4, II Thes. 2:13, I Pet. 1:2, Rom. 8:28-39, Rom. 11:5-6, John 10:15, Eph. 2:1, John 15:5, Eph. 1:19, I Cor. 2:14, John 6:44

VIII. OF THE NEW BIRTH

We believe that, in order to be saved, sinners must be regenerated or born again. Regeneration is accomplished in a manner above our comprehension, by the power of the Holy Spirit in connection with God's word, so as to secure our voluntary belief and obedience to the gospel message. The new birth consists in giving a holy disposition to the mind and its proper evidences appear in the fruits of repentance, faith and newness of life.

John 3:3-8, II Cor. 5:17, Eph. 2:8-10, James 1:18, I Pet. 1:22-23, I John 4:7

IX. OF REPENTANCE AND FAITH

We believe that Repentance and Faith are sacred duties and also inseparable graces wrought in our souls by the regenerating spirit of God. The sinner being convicted of his guilt and helplessness, and of the way of salvation by Christ, turns from sin in unfeigned contrition and confession, to the Lord Jesus Christ, receiving Him as both Lord and Saviour.

Mark 1:15, Acts 11:18, Eph. 2:8, Rom. 10:9-10

X. OF JUSTIFICATION

We believe that the great gospel blessing which Christ secures to such as believe in Him is Justification; that justification includes the pardon of sin, and the promise of eternal life; that it is bestowed, not in consideration of any works of righteousness which we have done, but solely through faith in the Redeemer's blood; by virtue of which faith His perfect righteousness is freely imputed to us of God; that it brings us into a state of most blessed peace and favor with God and secures every other blessing needful for time and eternity.

Rom. 3:24,28, Rom. 5:1, Rom. 8:33-34, John 5:24, Acts 13:39, Rom. 5:9

XI. OF SANCTIFICATION

We believe that in every man whom the Holy Spirit regenerates, He does also begin and carry on the work of sanctification. This work involves our growth in holiness and knowledge whereby we are made more like our Saviour. God's word, self-examination, self-denial, watchfulness, prayer, and the practice of all godly duties are the means used by the Spirit for the strengthening of this work. Sanctification is progressive and never issues in sinless perfection in this life as the flesh remains unchanged.

I Cor. 1:30, John 17:17, Phil. 1:6, Rom. 8:29, I Thes. 4:3, Titus 2:11-14

XII. OF THE PERSEVERANCE OF THE SAINTS

We believe that those who are truly saved, having been predestinate into glorification will endure unto the end. Their persevering attachment to Christ is the grand mark that distinguishes them from superficial professors. God's special providence watches over their welfare, and they are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation.

Rom. 8:28-29, I John 2:19, John 8:31, Phil. 1:6, John 10:4-5, John 10:27-30, Psa. 37:28, Jude 24

XIII. OF GOOD WORKS

We believe that good works are the fruits and evidences of a true faith. Every child of God should be careful to maintain good works which can be done only through the power of the Spirit, and by the instruction of God's word.

Eph. 2:8-10, Titus 3:8, Matt. 5:16, James 2:20

XIV. OF THE CONDITION OF THE HEATHEN

We believe that no accountable person can be saved without the work of the Holy Spirit and hearing and believing the gospel. The heathen, without the gospel, are lost and will be judged by the light of conscience which is given to every accountable person.

Rom. 2:12-16, Rom. 10:13-17, John 17:3, John 14:6, John 3:3-5

XV. OF THE CHURCH

We believe that the church is a local, visible, congregation of Baptized believers known as Baptist in our day and time, met together by covenant in the Faith and Fellowship of the Gospel to worship God. We believe the church is like the one Christ started while here on earth before Pentecost, and is His bride as described in the Revelation letter. The ordinances of the church are: Baptism and the Lord's Supper. The church is governed by God's laws, and exercises the gifts, rights, and privileges invested in them by God's word. That its only scriptural ordained officers are Bishop, or Pastor, and Deacons, whose qualifications, claims and duties are defined in the Epistles of Timothy and Titus.

Mt. 16:18, Mt. 18:15-20, Phil 1:1, Eph. 3:21, I Tim. 3:1-16, Titus 1:5-9 Acts 6:1-6

XVI. OF BAPTISM

We believe that baptism is the immersion in water of a believer in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost by a duly ordained minister of the gospel, authorized by a New Testament Baptist Church. Baptism does not wash away sin but publicly identifies the believer with Christ in His death, burial and resurrection. Scriptural Baptism is a prerequisite to membership in the church and participation in the Lord's Supper.

Mt. 28:19, Acts 2:41, Acts 8:36-39, Rom. 6:3-5, Eph. 4:5, 1 Pet. 3:20-21

XVII. OF THE LORD'S SUPPER

We believe that the Lord's Supper is not a sacrament but an ordinance placed in the church by our Lord which symbolizes His broken body and shed blood for the redemption of His people. The elements to be used in the Lord's Supper are unleavened bread and wine. Members of this local body only can partake after solemn self examination.

Mt. 26:26-30, I Cor. 11:18-34

XVIII. OF THE GREAT COMMISSION

We believe that the commission of Christ to evangelize the world, baptize believers, and teach them obedience to God's word was given to New Testament Baptist Churches. These churches should cooperate with each other in the furtherance of the gospel, each church being the sole human judge of the measure and method of their cooperation. This church will not affiliate or fellowship in anyway with any organization other than churches of like precious faith. This excludes her from being recognized as a member of any man-made organization such as a fellowship, convention, or association. This Church shall only support missionaries of like precious faith who are authorized and sent out by local New Testament Baptist Churches.

Mt. 28:18-20, Mark 16:15, Acts 1:8, Acts 13:2, Eph. 4:11-16, I Cor. 16:1, II Cor. 8:18-19

XIX. OF THE HARMONY OF THE LAW AND THE GOSPEL

We believe that the law of God is the eternal and unchangeable rule of his moral government; that it is holy, just, and good; and that the inability which the scriptures ascribe to fallen men to fulfill its precepts arises entirely from their love of sin; to deliver them from which, and to restore them through a Mediator to unfeigned obedience to the holy Law, is one great end of the gospel and of the means of grace connected with the establishment of the local church.

Gal. 3:1-25, Rom. 8:7,8

XX. OF THE CHRISTIAN SABBATH

We believe that the first day of the week is the Lord's Day, and for the observance of all the means of grace, both private and public to celibrate the day the Lord rose from the grave.

Acts 20:7, Exodus 20:8, Heb. 10:24-25

XXI. OF CIVIL GOVERNMENT

We believe that civil government is of divine appointment, for the interests and good order of human society; and that magistrates are to be prayed for, conscientiously honored and obeyed; except only in things opposed to the will of our Lord Jesus Christ, who is the only Lord of the conscience, and the Prince of the Kings of the earth.

Rom. 13:1-7, Mt. 22:21, Acts 5:29, I Tim. 2:1-3

XXII. OF CHRIST'S RETURN

We believe that the imminent and bodily return of the Lord Jesus Christ is the blessed hope of the saint. At the return of Christ, the living saints will be translated and the dead in Christ raised to receive a new and glorified body as we meet Christ in the air. There will then be approximately seven years of tribulation upon this earth as the Antichrist is revealed and the wrath of God falls upon this world. Christ will then return in great glory to smite the nations with a rod of iron and set up His personal reign on this earth for a thousand years.

Titus 2:13, Acts 1:10-11, I Thes. 4:13-18, I Cor. 15:51-53, Mt. 24:1-31, II Thes. 2:3, Rev. 20:1-6

XXIII. OF JUDGEMENT OF THE UNJUST

We believe that at the close of Christ's thousand year reign, the unsaved will be raised to stand before God at the Great White Throne Judgement. They will then be cast into the lake of fire along with the Devil and his emissaries.

Rev. 20:5-15

XXIV. OF THE JUDGEMENT OF THE JUST

We believe all the just will stand before the Judgement Seat of Christ, and that everyone of them shall give an account of themselves to God and receive rewards or suffer loss according to that which he has done in his body whether it be good or bad.

Rom. 14:10-12, II Cor. 5:10, John 15:1-11, I Cor. 3:12-17, Rev. 20:5-6

XXV. OF THE STATE OF MAN AT DEATH

We believe that at death the saved go immediately into the presence of God and the joys of Heaven while the unregenerate enter into a place of torment where they are held in righteous judgement. We hold the teachings of annihilation, soul sleep, and purgatory to be unscriptural and false.

Luke 16:19-31, II Cor. 5:1-11, Luke 23:43, Heb. 11:16, Rev. 20:10-15, Rev. 21:1-8

http://svng.com/tracy/what.htm

and then I ended up at this website somehow, I don't know if it was from a link or how I got there. 
________________________
this was my note:

http://www.sgmsurvivors.com

"survivors" of the Sovereign Grace Ministry churches.

Clover Road Church is a part of this group

____________________

but I think I remember that site said they had nothing to do with the clover church hmm, so I am not sure,  a lot of time has passed now so maybe now we can figure it out.

hmm this seems to be all I can find about the church website, if I find more later I will add it here. 

I also have all the old news articles.  I have some about the church being searched etc.  I will try to figure out how to categorize all the news articles I have.  I knew they would go poof so I copied them each day.  I also have links to all the videos but a lot of those are already gone

Monkeys ::MonkeyNoNo::
I find this series of comments very strange!

this is a pretty weird post.  Does anyone really think sandra cantu was possessed of the Devil and Melissa was doing God's work?   ::MonkeyShocked::  if they truly believe that and they are a part of that church, then is this an example of what they believe?  if so, something is really really wrong with these people.  the last sentence in this post sounds like one of those political agenda posters on there.  So maybe it is just some idiot...and the way the whole thing is worded it is hard to figure out what they are saying.

or were they saying melissa is the one possessed?  I don't know but the person posting this is whacked IMO.   ::MonkeyEek::

hmmm that is pretty interesting.  now how did that person know Melissa needed to do the right thing? 

posted at
Date:
4/10/2009
Time:
5:25:36 PM

so when was she arrested?

it sounds like someone KNEW melissa did this?

this is the 2nd post on the guestbook about sandra.  there was one before this the same day, saying only, rest in peace little sandra or something like that.  then you have this one.  they were both on april 7th.  so what was going on, on april 7th, that would make someone go post about sandra on the church website? 

Date:
4/7/2009
Time:
11:11:36 AM 11:11, hmm that is intersting
Remote User:
Comments
Proverbs 3 5-6 I have read a book called The Shack by WM. Paul Young. There is no excuse for the poor child Sandra It breaks my heart. If you read this book it may help with understanding. I am so sorry to the family and my families prayers are with you

why would someone need to read the book The Shack by Wm Paul Young?  let me see what that book is about.  and also proverbs 3: 5-6. 

Exactly my thoughts!
What was happening on the date of that post?
MH had only just talked to the media on the phone???
That was fairly early on, right???.... ::MonkeyEek::

You know what's weird???
The Shack was among Casey Anthony's possessions

I didn't get that whole Mr Jones thing posted in the beginning. WTH was that about?


I think one MH started to talk, people  got suspicious. That is how I think she is mentioned on the 7th of April.

You all need to help with the religious stuff posted and what seems conventional and what doesn't.

Here is a review on THE SHACK, might help to know what it is about.  Maybe we can figure out why this poster is saying to read it to understand.  Why are they posting that I wonder?  and on the 7th, on the church website? 

REVIEW
William P. Young's book has an intriguing premise. Years ago, a father name MacKenzie Phillips took his children camping and lost one of them to a man who has kidnapped and killed others. Mack has grieved since then. His marriage has struggled. Understandably, his relationship with God has suffered. Then, one wintry day, he receives a note in his mailbox inviting him back to the woods, to the shack in which his daughter's dress and bloodstains were found. The note, it would seem, is from God.

From this simple yet effective premise, Young leads Mack Phillips back to his point of despair and anger. The encounters he then has with God there in "The Shack" serve as thought-provoking moments for both Mack and the reader. This is not the God of stodgy Sunday school classes. This is not a flannel-graph Jesus. This is not limited to a fluttering dove of the Holy Spirit. The descriptions here are startling, while remaining true to the nature of God's love and grace as portrayed through Scripture. Not only are they startling, they're wise and moving and beautiful.

Some might argue that "The Shack" has little theology or accuracy to it, but the very argument is what Young is trying to melt away.

Another review

THE SHACK is a fictional account of a grieving father who meets the Godhead in an old cabin where his abducted daughter's bloody dress was once found. These god-figures give the father a long series of lectures about the nature of themselves, reality, and how to be free of his grief.

Although LIFEWAY Bookstores are selling this book, the purchaser should understand that it isn't a Christian novel when judged by classical Christian doctrines. It presents itself as a Christian book. God the Father is depicted as a female deity; it teaches that people are not sinners, but simply misguided due to wrong intellectual paradigms through which they look at life; the woman-god in the story says she is "extremely fond" of everyone, including the unknown person who murdered the poor little girl; the gods hold no moral expectations of humanity, so they are never disappointed in anyone; the gods criticize the father for being angry at the man who murdered his little girl; there is no holiness or hell; the Ten Commandments are bad; followers of the Lord are free from any obligation to follow moral commandments; and Jesus isn't a Savior, but is a participant in the process of becoming godlike.

These points of mystical philosophy -- in prior decades, we would have called it "New Age" -- is clearly presented throughout the book, in the series of dialogues Mack has with the gods. There is no question that this is a profoundly anti-Christian book. But it draws you in by building a strong sense of empathy between you, the reader, and the grieving father, which is a well-known propaganda technique.

If you are interested in reading Universalist Unitarianism philosophy in a fiction novel form, this will do it for you. What I have discovered is that many religious people are projecting what they want to be believe about this book onto it, rather than soberly noting its actual message. This is common with religious fiction. The book denies everything in Christian teaching that is distinctive, disturbing, or upsetting, but uses Christian words and concepts to promote antinomian universalism. Because I accept traditional Nicene and Reformed Christianity, I despise this book. It is very, very deceptive.

many more reviews here
http://www.amazon.com/Shack-William-P-Young/product-reviews/0964729237

most are pretty negative and are certainly saying this book is not mainstream christian at all and basically the opposite, so why would someone want anyone to read that book, or do they?  is this just a message left on the guest book and is meaning someone else? 

Proverbs 3:5-6 (King James Version)

 5Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

 6In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.

I have been given this book and have not read it yet.  Several of my parishoners have read it and say it is good.  Something like the old Pilgrims Progress.  I'll try to take some time to read it.

Of course, all of this begs that nagging question about Clifford Lane Lawless.  Who is he really and why isn't it a matter of verifiable record?
Good night my monkey friends.

here are the titles of the news articles I have for 4/6 and 4/7, maybe this will help to understand what was going on then.  I will read through them all later but I don't want to post them all on this thread. 

4/6
Police and the FBI arrived around 10:30 a.m at the pond where the container(suitcase) is.

An FBI evidence recovery team, which was expected to open the container, arrived at the site at 1:45 p.m. The forensic pathologist arrived shortly after 3 p.m. as a precautionary measure.


Missing Tracy girl's body found 04/06/2009
Missing Tracy girl's body found

By Mike Martinez, Aaron Swarts, Roman Gokhman, Kari Hulac and Michelle Maitre
San Joaquin Herald
Posted: 04/06/2009 01:56:27 PM PDT

TRACY — Police confirmed Monday night that the body of a missing Tracy girl was found inside a large black suitcase submerged in a farm pond just two miles from where the child was last seen 11 days ago.

Sandra Cantu, 8, was seen in a March 27 surveillance video that captured her skipping near her home in the Orchard Estates Mobile Home Park on West Clover Road.

At 10:20 p.m., an estimated 16 Tracy police and FBI vehicles, including a crime lab, were seen entering the mobile home park, in preparation to serve search warrants at an undisclosed location inside.
A short while later, Tracy police and FBI agents converged on Clover Road Baptist Church near the mobile home park late Monday night preparing to search a shed in connection with the investigation into Sandra's death, calling it an "active crime scene."
_______________

so on the 6th, they know she is found in the suitcase at the pond, and LE is in the park at a mobile home that night and also at the church.  Searching in the SHED... hmm is that a SHACK?

this is right before the post on the 7th at 11:11... did that poster try on purpose to post at 11:11? 

this is what they would have known at the time

Tracy church a crime scene in girl’s slaying (9:57 a.m.)

By The Record
April 07, 2009 12:58 PM

TRACY -- The Police Department, shifting gears from trying to find Sandra Cantu to trying to find her killer, has roped off Clover Road Baptist Church with yellow crime-scene tape.

The church is less than 100 yards west of Orchard Estates Mobile Home Park, where Cantu lived. The 8-year-old girl’s body was discovered Monday inside a suitcase floating in an irrigation pond two miles north of her home.

A residence inside the mobile-home park also has been roped off as a crime scene.

Tracy police Sgt. Tony Sheneman was holding a 10 a.m. news conference today.

A tree in front of the Orchard Estates park has become an unofficial memorial to Cantu. Passersby, some of them softly weeping with heads bowed, continue to drop off balloons, stuffed animals, notes and candles.

Tracy Unified has several counselors meeting with students this morning at Melville S. Jacobson Elementary where Cantu had been a student.

http://www.recordnet.com/apps/pbcs.dll/ ... PECIAL0263

CLL had spent all night talking to police.  this would be the night of the 6th and into the morning of the 7th. 

Police Look for Sandra Cantu's Killer

http://www.news10.net/news/local/story. ... &catid=284

TRACY, CA - Police have served a search warrant on one location in the Tracy mobile home park where 8-year-old Sandra Cantu was last seen.

Overnight, crime scene tape was also strung around Clover Road Baptist Church, which will be searched later Tuesday, said Sgt. Tony Sheneman with the Tracy Police Department at a news conference Tuesday morning. The church pastor, Lane Lawless, lives in the Orchard Estates mobile home park.

News10 talked to Lawless and his wife Connie. The pastor said he spent all night talking to police. He said they were being questioned because they know the Cantu family and Sandra and live just a few doors down from them.

"They're just covering every base they're going to cover," said Connie Lawless. "We were close friends with her. We lived just down the street. That's the only reason."

When asked if he had anything to do with the girl's disppearance, Lane Lawless said, "No."

"No one has been detained, no one has been arrested" in the death of Sandra, said Sheneman. Her body was found Monday in a suitcase in an dairy farm pond about two miles northeast of the mobile home park where she lived with her family.

Investigators did not say what prompted the latest searches or what they have found. No suspects have been identified. During the 10-day search for the girl, investigators previously searched four homes at the park and impounded several vehicles.

Police spoke with the girl's father last week. He lives in Mexico and works in Southern California.

NEWS10 SPECIAL: Sandra Cantu Remembered

When Sandra's body was found, she was in the same clothes she was wearing when last seen on March 27: a pink "Hello Kitty" T-shirt and black leggings.

Tracy Police Chief Janet Thiessen vowed that investigators will find the person or persons responsible for the girl's death and "bring them to justice."

Authorities plan an autopsy Tuesday to determine the cause of death.

Remembrances

Sheneman said many calls and inquiries have been made about what people can do for the family. He said cards can be sent to the Tracy Police Department, 1000 Civic Center Drive, Tracy, California, 95376, where a liaison is working with the girl's family.

Donations should be sent to the Carole Sund-Carrington Memorial Reward Foundation at 301 Downey Avenue, Modesto, California, 95354, attn. Sandra Cantu. As of Monday, the foundation's reward to find Sandra was over $30,000.

Monday night, a vigil at the mobile home park became an impromptu service when word was released her body had been found. There is a growing collection of flowers, candles, stuffed animals and messages in a memorial in front of the park's entrance.

so they knew on the 7th she was found, they question cll all night, they had roped off teh church with crime scene tape to search it tuesday and do the autopsy on tuesday, so people knew all of this on the 7th, and this article says they are getting close to an arrest, so melissa knew by then or someone did that they were getting close and they were at her house and the church and had found sandra.  IN HER SUITCASE. 

so, why read that book? THE SHACK.  to understand why this happened.  HMMM

Sandra Cantu Found in a Suitcase; Police Closing In on Suspect

Second-Grader Was Missing for 10 Days, Lived in a California Mobile Home Park

By SARAH NETTER

April 7, 2009

"It's not as big a mystery as it was," before, said Tracy, Calif., police Sgt. Tony Sheneman to ABCNews.com, "and we believe we're getting significantly closer."


"We're hopeful that we will have something in the next couple of days," he said.


The discovery of the suitcase by farmworkers brought a tragic end to a massive search that had enveloped the town. Police were aided by hundreds of volunteers, dogs, horses and the FBI.


In the end, it was a twice-yearly practice of draining a collection pond used for irrigation that led police to Sandra's body.


When the pond, about 125 to 150 yards long and about 30 yards wide, began to empty, the suitcase appeared.


The National Center for Missing and Exploited Children had translated missing posters into Spanish to alert the largely Spanish-speaking population, many of them migrant workers, that live in the area.

"They saw the suitcase come up to the surface and thought it was odd," Sheneman said.


When the luggage was opened at the morgue, investigators found Sandra's body inside, still dressed in the pink Hello Kitty T-shirt and black leggings she was wearing March 27, the day she disappeared.

Autopsy results are expected later today.

so they took the computers on the 6th-7th, so by then melissa knew they were going to find everything.  so did someone else. 

Pastor Confirms Police Questioned Him, Searched Home in Sandra Cantu Investigation


Created by Brian Shields on 4/7/2009 4:27:24 PM

TRACY (KRON) -- The pastor of a Tracy church confirms police have questioned him about the murder of eight-year old Sandra Cantu.

KRON 4's Kate Thompson spoke with Pastor Lane Lawless and his wife as they drove by the Clover Road Baptist Church Tuesday afternoon. Pastor Lawless says he's cooperating with the investigation. He told Kate police seized computers, phones, and other items from the family's trailer located in the same mobile home park where the Cantu family lives. The pastor says his granddaughter played with Sandra on a regular basis. Police cordoned off the church for a more thorough search of the premises Tuesday morning.

An autopsy on the eight-year old girl's remains was underway late Tuesday morning

so by the 7th they know they are focusing on cll's house and the church.  look what connie says.  It breaks our heart

and then you have this post the same day
Date:
4/7/2009
Time:
11:11:36 AM 11:11, hmm that is intersting
Remote User:
Comments
Proverbs 3 5-6 I have read a book called The Shack by WM. Paul Young. There is no excuse for the poor child Sandra It breaks my heart.  If you read this book it may help with understanding. I am so sorry to the family and my families prayers are with you

Link Between Cantu Case And Church? 4/7/09
Police Examine Link Between Cantu Case And Church

Nearby Church Investigated, Pastor Questioned

Tracy: One day after Sandra Cantu's lifeless body was pulled from a Tracy irrigation pond, investigators are focusing their attention on a church just down the road from the trailer park.

During a press briefing this morning,  Tracy Police Sgt. Tony Sheneman said this afternoon, officers will conduct a search of the Clover Road Baptist Church, located a third of a mile away from the Cantu's home. Yellow crime scene tape lined the perimeter of the church Monday night, as officers scoured the area for evidence well into Tuesday.

The pastor at the Clover Road Baptist Church -- Lane Lawless, a resident at the Orchard Estates mobile home park -- was questioned Monday following the discovery of Sandra's body. Police say there could be a connection between Monday night's search of the mobile home park and the search at the church.

Police point out that, contrary to some media reports, that Lawless has not been arrested, only questioned, "like hundreds of other people," said Sgt. Sheneman.

"They took the usual stuff, phone, computer, things of that nature," said Connie Lawless, Lane's wife. "We were very open to them taking anything they wanted to take. We were not at all disturbed by that. We feel that the more people they can eliminate the quicker they will be able to get to the truth of the matter."

Connie said  she suspected that police were interested in her husband's church because Sandra often played at their house with the Lawless' granddaughter.

"It breaks our heart that someone would take such a sweet child," she said.

The body of Sandra Cantu was discovered in a suitcase located in a Tracy irrigation pond yesterday afternoon, 10 days after the 8-year-old was reported missing. The cause of death is still unknown, as the autopsy is still in progress.

Authorities were able to quickly identify Sandra by the clothes that she was wearing went she went missing on March 27: a pink "Hello Kitty" T-shirt and black leggings.

At a press conference at Tracy City Hall Monday night, Police Chief Janet Thiessen and Sgt. Tony Sheneman confirmed that the container found by farm workers in an irrigation pond contained Sandra's body, and vowed to find the little girl's killer.

"We will be determining the person or persons responsible for this reprehensible act, and we will bring them to justice," Chief Janet Thiessen said.

if you are not familiar with 11:11, google it, it has many meanings, but it is interesting this post MIGHT HAVE BEEN "purposely" posted at that time.

here is more on the book THE SHACK...

by William Paul Young.  the posts reads WM Paul Young.  they chose to write william as WM.

I'll stop here.  But I think it is a very good idea to pay attention to these things. 

I don't want to clutter the thread.  But I ALWAYS pay attention. 

It is my belief someone already knew all about Melissa and the murder of sandra cantu.  The 11:11 is a "wake up call" .

I need to get some sleep.

that is one case I "skipped", I just did not have the time to get involved in it and I knew it would be huge and go on for years, so I just purposedly did not get into it...but hmm on she had the book.  well I guess a LOT of people have that book being it is so popular, but is interesting isn't it.  hmmm

THE SHACK.

DD, the comment that jumps out to me also is when Connie says they (LE) too the "usual stuff . . ."  I wouldn't know what is usual stuff LE would take.

Does anyone have the transcript of the speech the MH family gave  and can post it? That was strange, who on earth comes out like they did, stand there and defend themselves and their church. I found that very degrading and a sort of "who the heck cares what you have to say" moment.

It is very interesting....Could be just a coincedence....
Isn't 11:11 supposed to be when there is a spiritual doorway/gateway opened?  I know in numerology 11 is what's called a master number....And 22 is significant as well (also in the Qabballah sp?)

GMornin! ::MonkeyWink::
Do we have any idea what Lane was doing BEFORE he married Connie?  Where was he in the 70's and what was he doing then?

Hi, more meetings for me again today.  There is some info about him on the CLL thread, like this:
1931 - Clifford Lane Lawless born in August, currently age 77, tho some reports say 67

1941 - Connie L Harris born in August

1943 - Arthur DeWayne Harris (Connie's brother) born

1950 - Lane attended Brewster High School, on debate squad in Brewster WA 

1950s - Lane was in the US Navy, unknown which years

Thanks Sister!

there are many meanings of which are also the ones you just posted.  There are others.  Its hard to say what they might mean to the poster or to "whomever", or if it is only a coincidence, but I would watch for this in other posts, or any other kind of numerology or whatever.  I always watch for any kind of cryptics, coding, messages etc, because this is one of the things I have been noticing for years concerning a lot of the missing persons and unsolved crimes.

IMO there are few if any coincidences.
 :scratch:

Do you notice cryptics, coding, messages often?

Yes, I notice it quite a bit.  I am mostly interested in these kinds of cases.

Snipped:
http://www.clover-road-baptist-church.com/SUNDAY_SCHOOL.htm (http://www.clover-road-baptist-church.com/SUNDAY_SCHOOL.htm)

From the Clover Road Baptist Church Website...

SUNDAY SCHOOL LESSONS

WELCOME

Mathew 13:3-9    Then He spoke many things to them in parables, saying:  "Behold, a sower went out to sow.  And as he sowed, some seed fell by the wayside; and the birds came and devoured them.  Some fell on stony places, where they did not have much earth; and they immediately sprang up because they had no depth of earth.  But when the sun was up they were scorched, and because they had no root they withered away.  And some fell among thorns, and the thorns sprang up and choked them.  But others fell on good ground and yielded  a crop: some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.  He who has ears to hear, let him hear!"

This page contains our Sunday School Lessons.  The Alisal church, which is located in Salinas California, is one of our sister churches that provides us with these lessons.  Their pastor, Elder A.D. Harris, puts these together so that our church and many other churches around the world, can study, and learn more about the bible.

Our class is led by Xavier Huerta.  With scripture from the Kings James Bible and from participation from our members and visitors, we hope to come out of our Sunday School Classes with a better understanding of scripture.  You can access any of the lessons by selecting the title of the lesson under the dates.
 

Mathew 13:18-23  "Therefore hear the parable of the sower:  When anyone hears the word of the kingdom, and does not understand it, then the wicked one comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart.  This is he who received seed by the wayside.  But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while.  For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles.  Now he who received seed among the thorns is he who hears the word, and the cares of this world and the deceitfulness of riches choke the word, and he becomes unfruitful.  But he who received seed on the good ground is he who hears the word and understands it, who indeed bears fruit and produces: some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty." 


JULY 22

"THE CHURCH, A FORTRESS"

HOME READING:    Psalm 84:1-12

 

LESSON TEXT:    Ephesians 6:10-20

 

DEVOTIONAL READING:    Psalm 91:1, 2; 84:10

 

AIM & CENTRAL TRUTH:    The Lord God is a refuge and a very present help to his people.  The Lord had a SPECIAL place to meet with the Old Testament saints, that being the tabernacle in the wilderness.  Today, the Lord has a special place wherein His children are fortified against the attacks of Satan.  That place is in His church.

 

I.  LIVES ARE SAVED IN THE CHURCH:    Acts 2:40

One is not to be confused over the differences of "Soul Salvation" and salvation of the "Life."  The soul of  man is eternally saved when he is born again (John 3:16).  However, one's life can be lost to the world through lust and carnality.  Jesus asks the question,  "For what is a man profited, if he shall GAIN the whole world, and lose his own soul (Gr. life)?"  Study Matthew 16:24-27.

 

II.  PROMISE TO THE FAITHFUL CHURCH:    Revelation 3:10

In reading the Bible, the student will notice that NOT all people not ALL churches are faithful to the word.  It is to those churches that are being faithful that the promise of protection is given.  To unfaithful churches comes the warning of His judgment (Revelation 2 & 3).

 

III.  THE LOCAL CHURCH IS THE PILLAR AND GROUND OF THE TRUTH:    I Timothy 3:15

The system of doctrine was delivered unto the churches (Jude 3).  It is the Lord's churches who are to contend for the faith, not just the pastor.  The pastor is the spokesperson for the church.  Therefore, it is necessary the church backs him.  Also, the world is dependent upon the church for civilization (John 8:32; Matthew 5:13-16).

 

IV.  ALL CHURCH MEMBERS SHOULD BE GROUNDED IN THE TRUTH:

Each church member should be fully equipped (Ephesians 4:12).  Each church member should be a minister (Acts 1:8).  If Christ is not first in you r life, then you are not filling the gap and Satan has an entry into the church (Matthew 4:18:20; John 4:28).  The woman who received Christ LEFT her waterpot and Peter Andrew LEFT their nets.

FEBRUARY 3

   "CATHOLICISM IS NOT CHRISTIANITY"

HOME READING:    Galatians 1:1-24

 

LESSON TEXT:    Galatians 1:8

 

DEVOTIONAL READING:    1 John 4:1

 

AIM & CENTRAL TRUTH:    It is the duty of every believer to judge the spirits in the light of the scriptures.  However, when coming to the truth and standing thereon, you must be ready for the harsh words of the gainsayers.  According to the Apostle John there is spiritual and doctrinal error.  Today's lesson will expose the fact that Catholicism is anti-christian.

 

I.    THE PAGAN ROOTS OF CATHOLICISM:

"And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.  And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints....."  The bible student should read about historic Babylon'  Jeremiah 51:7; Daniel 5:4.  They praised the gods of gold, silver , brass, iron, wood, and stone.  The influence of her idolatry spread into all nations.  Babylon's modern counterpart is Rome.  She is a great city sitting on seven hills exercising authority and influence throughout the world (Revelation 17:9,18).  As Greek civilization seeped into Italy, Roman scholar, Varro (116-25 B.C.)  Roman scholar and naturalist Pliny, said, We are afraid of being transfixed by curses and spells."  Well noted historian, Will Durant, said, The most serious business of commerce, government, or war could be deferred or ended by the PRIESTLY announcement of an unfavorable omen like abnormal entrails in a sacrificial victim or a roll of thunder in the sky."  The families of Rome taught their children by way of superstition, and statuettes.  The home was their first institution of learning.  Everywhere you looked in the home and out of the home was a deity.  From the undying fire (eternal flame) on the hearth, to Terra-Mater (Mother-Earth).

 

II.    IS THE CATHOLIC CHURCH REFORMED?

Some believe that during the reformation period of Luther and Calvin, the Catholic church was reformed. Although it has undergone many changes it remains unchristian.  The core of Romanism remains in darkness.  Its pagan tentacles reaching in every direction hiding behind the banner of Christianity.  However, trued Christianity holds to the scriptures as the ONLY rule of faith and practice, as stated by the apostle Paul in Galatians 1:6,7.  There is not another gospel.  On the other hand the Popes of Rome reserve the right to add to scripture as handed down by tradition.  The council of Trent, session 21, says "The Holy Spirit  gives the Pope power to make decrees", which in reality is to change doctrine.  True Christianity teaches that there is only one mediator between God and man Christ Jesus. But the Catholic church observes the so-called Mass.  The word mass means, dismissal.  Here is where the priest dismisses the sins of the people through the sacraments.  The following scriptures will prove that Catholicism is not Christian (1 Timothy 2:5; Ephesians 1:2; Hebrews 7:25).  Catholics are taught to look to Mary for mercy in order to escape the wrath of God.

 

III.    SCRIPTURALLY CORRECT OR POLITICALLY CORRECT, WHICH?

Today we live in dangerous times.  The amalgamation of religion in the U.S. has threatened the doctrinal fiber of the Baptist faith.  Do we dare speak out in defense of the truth?  Or do we conform to Protestant liberalism?  To knowingly aid Catholicism in any manner is to speak loudly against Christ and the estimated fifty million who died by the hands of bloody and cruel servants of the Inquisition.  To be scripturally correct means to practice what the scripture teaches.

1.    Turn away from religious error.  2 Timothy 3:5

2    Have no fellowship with religious darkness, but REPROVE them. Ephesians 5:11

3.    Come out and away from them.  2 Corinthians 6:17

4.    Mark them (point them out).  Romans 16:17

 

IV.    SAD TURN OF EVENTS IN BAPTIST HISTORY:

One of Paul's final commands to Timothy, was to preach THE WORD.  This command was not exclusive to the one and only Timothy, but to all men who would be called to fill the arena of gospel preaching (2 Timothy 4:2).  God has given his men both duty and right of preaching the truth.  Less than one hundred years ago a Baptist preacher was expected to expose religious error publicly.  If not, he was considered either unapt or too loose to care.  Today when religious error is exposed the preacher is rebuked for and accused of "taking to task the church, or church members".  The primary reason for this decay is due to the fusing together of the doctrine of Christ and the philosophy of man.  This they do trying to show that all religions have the same divine element at their roots.


FEBRUARY 10

"MORMONISM IS NOT CHRISTIANITY"

HOME READING:    2 Peter 2:1-22

 

LESSON TEXT:    2 Peter 2:1,2

 

DEVOTIONAL READING:    Matthew 24:24-26

 

AIM & CENTRAL TRUTH:    Jesus warns his children not to follow the false teachers that come claiming they have the truth.  He has given us ample information in the scriptures on how to identify them.  Mormonism is less than two hundred years old and was established by Joseph Smith, the son of a shiftless gold digger.  The words of Peter, "....Through covetousness....make merchandise of you," should raise a red flag when the Mormon name is spoken.  The aim of today's lesson is to expose the ridiculous teaching of the Mormon church.

 

I.    THE LIE OF THEIR NAME:

"No lie is of the truth" 1 John 2:21.  The name the Mormon church has chosen for themselves is, "THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF THE LATTER DAY SAINTS."  Their bible known as "The book of Mormons" gives false witness to the church that Jesus established.  In their bible in the book of 3 Nephi 27:3-5 it says, "And they (disciples) said unto him, Lord...tell us the name whereby we shall call this church.....And the Lord said unto them.....ye must take upon you the name of Christ.....by this name ye shall be call at the last day."  They use the name of Jesus Christ on their sign boards and all the while they are anti-Christian.  In the New Testament the Lord's church was called and identified by its location.  Such as, the church of Ephesus, Thessaloniea, Rome, Pergamos, etc.  When the bible says "churches of Christ" or "church of God", it is NOT referring to the name of the church, but rather to whom it belongs.

 

II.    THE LIE OF THEIR BOOK:

Joseph Smith claims that an angel visited him, telling him of a hidden box wherein he would find golden plates with reformed Egyptian language.  The book of Mormons was supposedly translated from these golden plates.  The writhing of the book of Mormons only took ten years to complete (from 1820 to 1830).  The writers of their book plagiarized many parts of the King James Bible in a feeble attempt to put it on the same level as the K.J.V. (Kingdom of the cults, pg. 187).  The true scriptures classify all the people of the earth in two groups, Jew and Gentile.  But the Book of Mormons has Jew, Gentile, and "all other nations" (1 Nephi 19,23), herein they show great ignorance.  In the words of Peter, "These are wells without water....." (2 Peter 2:17)

 

III.    THE LIE OF THEIR SYSTEM:

The Mormon system is filled with lies and contradiction.  We are confined by ample space to give all the information available on the Mormon system.  But there is an undeniable principle that a house is no better than its foundation (Luke 6:46-49).  Joseph Smith was regarded by those who knew him as an illiterate.  His mother and father were fortune-tellers, dreamers, and vision-seers.  Insomuch as Smith knew very little about the bible he joined forces with Sidney Rigdon, an excluded Baptist minister.  After Rigdon's expulsion from the Baptists he became a minister in the Campbellite denomination.  Unable to make a go of it with Mr. Campbell, Rigdon, Smith, and P.P.  Pratt started their new religion (The Fundamentals vol. 4 pp. 132, 133).

1.    Mormonism is anti-America.  They contradict the fundamental principles of our free representative government.  They insist on a priesthood government.  Mr. O. Pratt, an apostle of the Mormon church states, "....All other governments are illegal and unauthorized" (Orson Pratt's works, pg.41).  see Romans 13:1-7

2.    Mormonism is anti-Christian.  Although Mormonism uses Christian phraseology, it contradicts the teachings of Christ.  The salvation the Mormon church teaches is in the keeping of rules and regulations and not by faith only in Christ Jesus the only begotten of God the Father.  The Mormon system can be summarized by the words of Jude 8, ".....These filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.

FEBRUARY 17

"THE WATCHTOWER SOCIETY IS NOT CHRISTIANITY"

HOME READING:    Galatians: 3:1-29

 

LESSON TEXT:    Galatians 3: 6-9

 

DEVOTIONAL READING:    2 Timothy 3: 16,17

 

AIM & CENTRAL TRUTH:    Baptists believe the bible to be the only rule of faith and practice.  But the people of the Watchtower Society teach that they must also read their Watchtower magazine or end up in "darkness."  Today's study will focus on the deceitful lies of the so-called "Jehovah witnesses."

 

I.    DECEITFUL ROOTS OF THE WATCHTOWER SOCIETY:

This anti-Christian organization was established by Charles Taze Russell.  In 1879 he began to publish the Watchtower magaazine.  This magazine now has a circulation equal to that of T.V. Guide and Readers Digest.  Russell promoted the idea that Christ had returned invisibly to earth in 1874, and that God's kingdom would be established on earth in 1914.  (Compare this with Matthew 24:23-31).  The chosen bibl of this cult is the New World Translation. (N.W.T.)  However, they do not believe everything it says for example in Matthew 24:36 of their bible it says, "Concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens, nor the Son, but only the Father" this they do not believe.  By 1904 Russell had written six volumes known as studies in the scriptures.  He proclaimed that anyone who read these volumes alone would have the light of scriptures without reading the bible.  Now any rational thinker must ask themselves the question, if what Mr. Russell said be true why would his followers be given a bible.  It is important to know that false religions will add the bible in the mix in attempt to validate their organization and deceive the ignorant.

 

II.    THE WATCHTOWER JESUS:

The Watchtower Jesus is NOT the Jesus of the bible.  Note the comparison of the (N.W.T. and the K.J.V. bible) John 1:1 "....And the Word was God" (K.J.V.).  ".....And the Word was a god" (N.W.T.).  This perverted translation is an attempt to make Jesus lesser than God.  The Watchtower Jesus is not equal with God the Father.  They teach that John 3:16 "....The only begotten Son" means that Jesus was created.  In this they have even perverted the Greek word momgenes.  This word does not mean Created one, but rather means one of a kind.  The unbelieving Jews understood more about Christ than do the so-called Jehovah witnesses (see John 5:17-18).  Christ was equal with God.  The Watchtower Society fights against the fact that Jesus and Jehovah are "one" in nature.

 

III.    INCONSISTENCIES OF THE WATCHTOWER SOCIETY:

Our lesson reading for this study is Galatians chapter three.  V.6 says ".....Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness."  Ephesians 2: 8,9 teach that salvation is by grace through faith and that it is not of ourselves.  These scriptures mean that men do not work any kind of works to attain salvation.  But the so-called J.W.s are inconsistent in their own teaching on the way of salvation.  On pg. 1657 of the N.W.T. they say, "Life is God's gift through his son".  But it goes on to add that one "must work energetically to attain salvation".  Which is it?  Is it a gift?  Or do we work for it?  See Romans 11:6.  These poor souls by their own teaching are never sure where they stand in God's eyes.  Pg. 1656 of their bible states, "Good works can be rejected."  But it also says, "Those showing faith have hope."  It should be very plain to us the so-called Jehovah Witnesses have NO light in their Watchtower.

kind of interesting CLL believes the above doctrines of the baptist lessons above, yet his step mother was catholic and some of his cousins are mormons.  So was he to get away from them?  He didn't.  So what does he believe?

I really don't want to get into the "faiths" of different people and try to "judge" them.  I just don't believe I should be doing that , however, I am just wondering, does CLL really believe what his church is teaching him and he is teaching others, or does he believe something else. 

Hell, DD, how can we know what the person believes if we can't even prove his sorry butt exists.  My background and faith could be checked and verified, and it would show lots of puzzlements in my beliefs, but at least it would be shown.  Any pastor that has to rely on someone else's  Sunday School lessons (even if they are from his brother-in-law), shows to me he has no grasp of what he believes.  It also offers proof, IMO, why that church never grew, had few attendees, etc.

sorry for the cuss word.
 :2redface:

I now know for a fact there is no "mother" church.  One of the things that divided the Baptist church was being obliging to an "association."  Missionary Independent churches and most Missionary churches are accountable to no other church or association.  There definitely should be a 501.3.c for this church.

Sister this one little detail concerns me the most. Why on earth would a church not file as a non profit???

If the church  is a cover, then it would make sense to me for them to file as a non profit.
If it is an actual church, then it would make sense to me for them to file as a non profit.

They are said to be strongly republican, last I read, republicans are not too keen on paying taxes, so it would make sense to me they would file as a non profit and not want to pay extra taxes if they don't need to.

they say they have members, these members must give donations to help support the church if for nothing else but for the property taxes. Then it would makes sense to me they would file as a non profit.

Why on God's green earth would they not do  what makes sense  and is allowable to do for a church? How many churches do not have a non profit? Even if this church is being supported by another church, it is money given to this church and they have to claim it, they are not filed under an active non profit.

I wonder if they possibly could have their 501c status taken away (violations, etc...)?

The best I can figure is their non-status may be filed under the old name of Victory Baptist Church as that was its name in 1957.  Or they filed under National Roofing as a profit, which doesn't make sense.  But few things make sense with these folks.  Would really like to know when the status of National Roofing was "suspended."
I am still unsure how CLL makes a living.  In the Independent Baptists churches, the congregation pays the pastor's salary, same thing with any Missionary Baptist, as they are not officially affliated with an association.
The gap between his being at Grace MBC in Gardina, is odd.  More odd is what did he do when he and Connie got married and the first time he preached in 4/6/1971.  I am believing he is not who he says he is.
Taking off for a day or so! Yeah!  Had another parishoner commit suicide Wednesday night?  it's ugly.  Have a great 4th of July and sing the Star-Spangled Banner at least once, even if it's in the shower!
 :salut:

Oh Sister...
I am SO SORRY to hear that!!!!
Are you really a nun?
I hope you have a good break and when you come back do check some of the *messages* I have left you for in the threads!
(http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg193/vjones60/Angels/A3255B1255D.gif)

No, no nun.  An ordained United Methodist pastor.
 ::MonkeyAngel::

I'm just the big Sister to a lot of people, by blood and otherwise.

Wow!!! ::MonkeyAngel::
That's neat!  No wonder you are so kind!!!
Boy, I wish we could sit down for a cup of coffee!!!  Do I have some stories for you!!! And vice versa!!!  My dad was an Episcopal priest - Defrocked, then a 4 Square Fundamentalist and his friends in the 60's, while in seminary,  were quite an unsavory group!  What a sad story it is...and a big part of my motivation for Sandra!

Oops left out a word....
Fundamentalist Preacher! ::MonkeyEek::

Part of my motivation too! I wasn't defrocked or anything :>)
I am kind most of the time, except when it comes to abuse of any kind to anyone.  Justice for all the victims who have no voices!!!