Scared Monkeys Discussion Forum

It is said Melissa read up on the Rose Pisa case from Israel.  I want to go read up on that case and see why Melissa was reading on that case and did Melissa get ideas from that case.  Did she get all of her ideas from other cases she read about?  Why choose that case to read about, who would even know that case existed? was it publicised over here?  Was it on any crime forums?

hmmm googled and looks like it is rose PIZEM, not pisa.  okay, so let me go read will make notes here

Indictments postponed again in Rose Pizem murder 
 
By Roni Singer-Heruti 
 
Tags: Marie-Charlotte Renault   

The prosecution once again delayed a decision yesterday on what charges to file against Ronny Ron and Marie-Charlotte Renault over the murder of 4-year-old Rose Pizem. The main problem is lingering uncertainty over Renault's involvement in the killing.

Police believe they have gathered sufficient evidence to prove Renault, who is Rose's mother, guilty of manslaughter in court. But the prosecution doubts the police's claim and has suggested charging her with child abuse instead.

Ron, who is Rose's paternal grandfather and Renault's live-in lover, will almost certainly be charged with murder, though police say much of the evidence against him is circumstantial.

 
Prosecutors had been expected to read the charges against the two suspects in court today. Instead, however, they will merely declare their intention to indict the couple and ask the court to extend their remands.

Police recently reviewed a conversation between Renault and Ron when they were first arrested. According to a police source, Ron is heard briefing his lover on what to say during her interrogation and instructing her to tell the police that they had planned to send Rose to a local religious institute, and not to a boarding school in France, as she had previously claimed. Police say the conversation proves that Renault lied to her interrogators about her involvement in the murder.

But Renault's attorney, Revital Swid, reiterated yesterday that her client was unaware of the murder of her daughter. Ron has claimed that he accidentally killed his granddaughter while picking her up one day from her great-grandmother's house, where she spent most of her time.

Front-page news

The story became front-page news last month when police revealed that the couple from Netanya was suspected of murdering Rose because they did not want to raise her.

The girl was born in Paris in 2004 to Renault, a French Jew with relatives in Israel, and Benjamin Pizem, the child of a French mother and an Israeli father. At the age of one year, Rose made her fhttp://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1023139.htmlirst visit to Israel. That was the first significant encounter Benjamin had ever had with his father, Ron, and the first time Marie had ever met him.

The three spent several months in Israel. At the end, Marie told Benjamin that she would not return to France with him because she had fallen in love with Ron. The couple, who never married, had two children together, and eventually received custody of Rose as well after a lengthy court battle. 

Ronny Ron: I didn't murder Rose


Missing four-year-old girl's grandfather, who admitted to killing her a few weeks ago, changes his testimony, says 'I did not murder her. The last time I saw her she was alive, in my mother's care'. Marie Renault: I feel like a bad mother

Raanan Ben-Zur Published:  09.09.08, 18:05 / Israel News 




Ronny Ron, the man accused of murdering his four-year-old granddaughter, Rose Pizem, changed his testimony to a claim of innocence on Tuesday, prior to his court hearing.


Main Suspect
 
Witness: Grandfather asked to enroll Rose in haredi boarding school  / Raanan Ben-Zur
 
Yeshiva director tells police Ronny Ron rejected bid for Rose's mother to convert to Judaism so child could enroll in ultra-Orthodox institution. 'I suggested enrolling her in our kindergarten, but he insisted on boarding school,' he says
Full Story
 
 
 
 

"I did not murder her. The last time I saw her she was alive, at my mother's house. Go and ask her; she's manipulative," he told reporters. "The last time I saw (Rose) she was in my mother's care."

 

He added that he had been coerced into a confession. Ron had confessed to the girl's murder several weeks ago, after being arrested in relation to her disappearance.

 

Asked why he confessed to killing Rose, Ron said "because I thought it would help my mother and the little girls. (Police) threatened that my girls would grow up to be prostitutes, become involved in drugs and be handed over to foster homes.


 

The attorney for Rose's great-grandmother, Vivien Yaakov, said of Ron's comments "Police have heard several testimonies that disprove Ron's falsified version of the events. Today it is clear that it is thanks to Vivian that an investigation was launched. She still has hopes that Rose will be found."



 

During the Ramla District Court hearing on the extension of the remand of Ron and his lover, Rose's mother Marie Renault, additional details surfaced regarding Ron's apparent efforts to cover up Rose's disappearance.


 

It was revealed that when asked by his friend Uzi where Rose was, Ron answered "she is at the French people's camp" and added that he and Marie drove her there every morning.

MY NOTE: HMMM like in FRENCH CAMP? CALI? by tracy/manteca?

 

According to Uzi, the conversation took place in July, some two months after Rose had disappeared.

 




Marie Renault brought to court (Photo: Yariv Katz)

 

Renault burst into tears after French and British reporters asked her if she missed her daughters. Asked whether she knew anything of Rose's apparent murder, the mother shook her head and asked to leave the courtroom.


 

However, when the cameramen were ordered to exit the courtroom, Renault appeared more relaxed and even smiled while talking to her attorneys.

 

During the hearing it was further revealed that letters written by Renault to Ron, which were found in her apartment, read "I am shocked by what happened to Rose. I feel like a bad mother."

 Advertisement   
 
   
 
 

The court heard testimony from the couple's babysitter, who said that one evening – apparently May 12, the day Rose disappeared - Renault and Ron returned home late and acted strangely.

 

According to the babysitter, when she inquired as to Rose's whereabouts, Ron told her she was at his mother's house. The babysitter's testimony cast further doubt on Renault's assertion that she had no prior knowledge of her daughter's disappearance.

 

The mother had previously testified that Ron had told her that Rose was at a French school.

 

The court extended Renault's remand by 10 days, and Judge Liora Frenkel said that there was reasonable suspicion that she was guilty of the crimes for which she was accused.

 

Ron's remand was also extended by 10 days.

 

Police officials stressed that Ron's claim of innocence would not change the course of the investigation and that the search for Rose in Tel Aviv's Yarkon River would continue. Ron had previously told police that he tossed a suitcase containing Rose's body into the river.


 

"Ron is still under arrest and his new version is a result of stress," one official said.

 

According to another police source, Ron "is only now beginning to understand what he got himself into and is trying to save himself, but it's too late. We have his confession and reenactment of the murder on tape.

 

"Ron said Rose died after he hit her in the car, but his testimony will have to be reviewed before an indictment is filed, although the confession and reenactment should suffice," the official said

http://www.ynet.co.il/english/articles/0,7340,L-3594365,00.html

Slain child's grandfather: I ended Rose's life in a split second 
 
By Ofra Eidelman, Haaretz Correspondent 
 
Tags: Ronny Ron, Israel News   
 
 

A man suspected of killing his 4-year-old granddaughter last September has told investigators he ended the girl's life in a split second and has regretted the decision ever since.

Ronny Ron - who was Rose Pizem's paternal grandfather as well as her mother's live-in lover - and the child's mother Marie-Charlotte Renault, became prime suspects in her death after her body was found in a suitcase in Tel Aviv's Yarkon River.

Ron made his confessions during a taped reconstruction of Rose's murder, which was played Tuesday at the Petah Tikva District Court.
 Advertisement
 
On the tape, Ron described how Rose repeated the word "disgusting" over and over again when he gave her a wafer to eat after picking her up from his mother's house.

"I told her 'arret', French for stop," Ron said on the tape. "And then... I gave her a flick, quite hard, it struck her in the face. I didn't feel good, I understood that she was sad, angry," Ron said.

Ron said he continued to wander with Rose, wanted to buy her ice cream. A little while later, he stopped her and held her up.

"I told her: 'Don't cry, don't be insulted, father loves you'... I hugged her tight. 'Father loves you', pardon, 'I love you'."

"Oh, oh, what I wouldn't give to have not delivered that slap to my baby. To give a slap to a child, God help me, even if God forgives me and society forgives me I cannot forgive myself... I ended her life and I ended my life in a split second without thinking," Ron said.

When asked by an investigator if he had thought of calling the police or a hospital, Ron said that he had not, and added, "I was frightened by what happened, frightened out of my mind."

The tape then continued with Ron's description of his suicidal thoughts following the murder.

He and Renault wept when the tape was finished, as did many others in the courtroom.

Rose was born in Paris in 2004 to Renault, a French Jew with relatives in Israel, and Benjamin Pizem, the child of a French mother and an Israeli father. At the age of one, Rose made her first visit to Israel. That was the first significant encounter Benjamin had ever had with his father, Ron, and the first time Marie had ever met him.

 
http://www.haaretz.co.il/hasen/spages/1088348.html

____________________

even if God forgives me and society forgives me I cannot forgive myself... I ended her life and I ended my life in a split second without thinking," Ron said

kind of like the letter, you took my life, but I forgive you

_______________

The tape then continued with Ron's description of his suicidal thoughts following the murder

suicidal thoughts after the murder, just like melissa, swallowig the razor blades

The Rose Pizem case / It can happen anywhere 
 
By Avirama Golan 
 
Tags: Israel, Rose Pizem, Crime 

The police this week had a hard time remembering a more deceiving subject of interrogation than Ronny Ron, who is suspected of killing his granddaughter Rose Pizem. Two weeks after the search at the Yarkon River began, it is no longer clear if her body was put there. Even after all the details are clarified, and if Ron's version of events that the child's mother, his wife, told him to "get rid of her" is verified, we still won't be able to come to terms with this story.

Who knows what takes place behind closed doors? Everyone will delve into the morbid gossip and extract as much as possible, but we will never be able to understand how a little girl was murdered by her family or why no one heard her whimper and saved her. Because the worst crimes - though we already know it we still find it hard to believe - take place in the family. Parents rape their children, siblings fight each other and grandparents are beaten until they bleed. This truth is so threatening to human society that we have two main ways of denial and repression.

The first is praising and celebrating motherly love. We are taught by fairy-tales and other stories that there is nothing more beautiful and pure than a mother's love. Look at the angelic images of Marie-Charlotte Renault and her daughter. Are they not the epitome of that ideal?
 Advertisement
 
Then there is the tendency to call the abusers "monsters" and search for causes: They are poor, they are foreigners, they are immigrants, and they are not "part of us." They are different.

But the naked truth is that parents, grandparents, uncles and siblings may hate their children, abuse them and even murder them. It happens everywhere among all classes and it happens to people that only yesterday seemed nice and normal.

Frustrated, the press attacks the welfare authorities and police on behalf of the public: How didn't you know? How could you be so neglectful?

When a crime is well hidden and perhaps premeditated with no one complaining, the police or welfare services cannot help. If someone is to blame or be held responsible in this case, it is the girl's family. Before the welfare services and police intervened, all they had to alert them was a hesitant letter to the National Council for the Child; a polite inquiry from a French lawyer. Now all the inattentive neighbors remember that tensions existed and that Rose was quiet and sad. 
 
________________

it can happen ANYWHERE, even tracy?

It was a red suitcase and it was "prepared"?  how prepared? I wonder when it was known there was a red suitcase ?  

Last update - 22:16 10/05/2009     
 
 
Mother, grandfather on trial for murder of 4-year-old Rose Pizem 
 
By Ofra Eidelman, Haaretz Correspondent 
 
Tags: Israel News, Murder   
 
 

The trial of the mother and grandfather alleged to have killed four-year-old Rose Pizem last year commenced Sunday morning at the Petah Tikva Magistrates Court.

Rose's grandfather Ronny Ron confessed several months ago via his defense attorney Gil Friedman to having caused her death. Friedman said that Ron accidentally caused Rose's death and had not expected it. Ron is also Rose's stepfather, as he is the live-in lover of her mother, Marie-Charlotte Renault.

According to the charges submitted in September, Ron or Renault - or both of them - placed Rose's body in a red suitcase after having caused her death. How they caused her death or where they did it is unknown. It is also unknown if Rose was alive when she was placed in the suitcase.
 Advertisement
 
The prosecutor has struggled to show the role played by the girl's mother in the murder. Revital Swaid, representing Renault, requested that the court drop the charges against her on the grounds that they do not describe any crime on her part.

Prosecutor Anna Avidov also acknowledged before the court that there was little evidence of the role played by Renault.

"What exact physical component did she play that we know of?" Avidov asked, adding that "we do not know if the accused physically carried out the act of killing."

Avidov also struggled to come up with an answer on whether Renault was present during the murder, what her own role was and whether she helped prepare the red suitcase in which Rose was found.

Pizem's body was found inside the red suitcase in the Yarkon River in September last year, four months after she was reported missing.

Rose was born in Paris in 2004 to Renault, a French Jew with relatives in Israel, and Benjamin Pizem, the child of a French mother and an Israeli father. At the age of one, Rose made her first visit to Israel. That was the first significant encounter Benjamin had ever had with his father, Ron, and the first time Marie had ever met him. 

mentioning the Bible and Isaac's sacrifice. 

Bereaved father: 'I write to you with my tears' 
 
By Christophe Dansette 
 
Tags: Benjamin Pizem, little Rose   

PARIS - "Your joy will never be forgotten," wrote Rose's father Benjamin Pizem at the funeral. The white coffin was no longer than 1.20 meters. About 100 family members and friends came to Montesson, a small suburb of Paris, to bury Rose, the little girl killed in Israel.

Part of the family met before the ceremony at the home of Betty, Rose's grandmother, who lives just next to the cemetery, to spend a little time together and to support Betty, who was still in shock. Rose's other grandmother Isabelle, Marie-Charlotte's mother, arrived a little later. Benjamin, Rose's father, his girlfriend and their little boy accompanied the coffin to the ceremony.

The funeral started on time, at 3 P.M., under a blue and sunny sky. It was led by a Catholic priest. "We are now gathered to say a last goodbye to Rose," he began his speech. "It's always difficult to bury a child before its parents," he continued, saying it was a sacrifice and mentioning the Bible and Isaac's sacrifice.
 Advertisement
 
But this was a sacrifice Rose's grandmother Betty was unwilling to accept. She wasn't able to speak, but she wrote a little poem to her grandchild, read out by the funeral's director. "I don't want to say goodbye yet," she wrote, "but I wanted to tell you how much I love you."

Rose's father, Benjamin, also had a few words for his daughter. "I write to you with my tears," he wrote. "You were a fabulous little girl. Your joy will never be lost. I am glad that you finally rest in peace, in a better world. To my beautiful little Rose, I love you, daddy." His poem was also read by the funeral's director.

Israel's government and the Israel Police were also represented. Richard Bos, the deputy director in charge of family matters at the French Ministry of Foreign Affairs gave a very short speech to assure France's solidarity with the families. And Meyer Habib, the vice-president of CRIF, the umbrella organization of French Jews, represented the country's Jewish community. "It was important for us to be here and to accompany Rose to her final resting place," he told Haaretz.

As if the little girl hadn't suffered enough, a little gust knocked over her portrait before the coffin was taken to the grave. 


http://www.haaretz.co.il/hasen/spages/1023464.html

it is impossible to rule out another cause, either mechanical or chemical,


Last update - 13:13 03/12/2008     
 
 
Autopsy on 4-year-old 'backs grandfather's initial confession' 
 
By Haaretz Service 
 
Tags: Israel News, Rose Pizem   

An autopsy on the body of Rose Pizem has lent weight to her grandfather's initial confession that he caused the 4-year-old girl's death in May when he slapped her across the face, Army Radio reported Wednesday.

Ronny Ron, Rose's paternal grandfather and her mother's lover, initially confessed to killing the child, then placing her body into a suitcase and throwing it into the Yarkon River.

He later recanted his confession.
 Advertisement
 
The results of the autopsy were compiled in a report, obtained by Army Radio, which stated: "The death could have been caused by intra-cranial damage such as a head injury or a slap across the face... since children's cranial bones are soft and flexible."

But the report also stated that, "It is impossible to rule out another [cause] of injury, either mechanical or chemical."

Ron is Rose's paternal grandfather and her mother Marie-Charlotte Renault's live-in lover. Both Renault and Ron have been charged with murdering the 4-year-old girl, and their trial is set to begin next week.

The story became front-page news in August when police revealed that the couple from Netanya was suspected of murdering Rose because they did not want to raise her, with Rose's mother allegedly stating she was a "difficult" child.

The girl was born in Paris in 2004 to Renault, a French Jew with relatives in Israel, and Benjamin Pizem, the child of a French mother and an Israeli father. At the age of one year, Rose made her first visit to Israel. That was the first significant encounter Benjamin had ever had with his father, Ron, and the first time Marie had ever met him.

The three spent several months in Israel. At the end, Marie told Benjamin that she would not return to France with him because she had fallen in love with his father, Ron. The couple, who never married, had two children together, and eventually received custody of Rose as well after a lengthy court battle 
http://www.haaretz.co.il/hasen/spages/1043310.html

At the age of one, Rose made her first visit to Israel. That was the first significant encounter Benjamin had ever had with his father, Ron, and the first time Marie had ever met him. 

I wonder why?

they had located a suitcase that matched the description of the one into which Ron said he had placed Rose's body before tossing it into the Yarkon. The divers have been combing the river daily, focusing on the area under the bridge near the Dekel country club in Tel Aviv's Bavli neighborhood.

"One of our divers encountered a duffel bag that looked like what we were looking for," explained a member of the diving team. And when the divers opened the bag, they found a skull and remnants of clothes

___________________________

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1020481.html

n interrogations, Ron continues to insist that he threw her body into the Yarkon River, which is extremely polluted in several areas. Police and volunteer divers are still searching for Rose's body there, despite growing doubts that it will be found.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1017832.html

What is it about this case prior to the child being killed that made MH connect with it? But you know we do not know when she researched this case. It could have been after Sandra had been kidnapped and she was trying to figure out what to do with her?

I am going to sleep now, goodnite!

One neighbor described Rose as "always looking sickly. She was solitary, barely knew how to speak or play and never smiled."

Four-year-old S., however, had a different view of the girl he described as his "best friend," recalling: "We liked to play together a lot, especially hide and seek. But she was always the one who counted," rather than the one who hid.

His father, R., who described Rose as practically a member of the family, also disagreed strongly with the first neighbor. "She was a very healthy girl ¬ happy, with wise eyes and great beauty," he said. "It's frightening to think about what could happen to her."

R. acknowledged that neither Rose nor S. had "well-developed language skills." But despite this, "it was astonishing to see how the two of them managed," he said.

"I feel bad for my little boy, who already, at such a young age, has learned what it is to lose a friend," R. added. "We're trying to explain to him what it means to 'get lost.' We tell him to stay close to us, not to go far and not to go off with strangers. We say that sometimes, you can't even know about your neighbor and his intentions."

it is strange she would find this case.  where was it published, was it on a crime forum?  or just in the news articles I am finding.  how would she even have found it?  what would she have googled?  and why?

I wonder if she was looking at other cases too, but they just mentioned this one because of the suitcase.  why spell suitcase wrong in her not?  I wonder how you spell suitcase in french or in israel? 

wonder why melissa did not put the suitcase in a river?  was she looking for a place that was POLLUTED, like in the above article?

a lot more articles on this case

http://74.125.155.132/search?q=cache:8YCdNBm7oyQJ:www.haaretz.co.il/hasen/pages/tags/allTagArticles.jhtml%3Ftag%3Drose%2520pizem+rose+pizem+murder+israel&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

the pastor at the funeral mentioning the Bible and Isaac's sacrifice.  

also that this girl was always sickly

did melissa get it in her head that sandra was the "scapegoat" for the sacrifice of her own sickly daughter?  she would certainly know the story of isaac and the scapegoat.  let me get the story for those of you who do not know it. 

this version of the story  of abraham "sacrificing" isaac is quite long to post, so go read at this link. 

notice it is also comparing it to the sacrifice of jesus who rose on the 3rd day.  jesus rose on easter, which I had thought was suppose to happen to have sandra "surface" on easter, but everything went haywire and so she was left in the pond. 

also notice that the RAM appeared and therefore becomes the scapegoat which is sacrificed instead of isaac, his child.  and he was sacrificed at a certain place, the moutain of the lord.  on the altar. this could be why sandra was taken to the church. 

whitehall might be the road because it represents the white hall, the church. 

I know this all seems pretty "OUT THERE", but this is not the only case like this, there are several like this and I have been following these cases for several years.  This MIGHT just be another one.

here is the story of abraham and isaac

http://74.125.155.132/search?q=cache:0LX2V9_75pEJ:www.apocalipsis.org/Abraham.htm+abraham+sacrifice+isaac&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

now also where is the MOUNTAIN OF THE LORD

"The word that Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem. 2 Now it shall come to pass in the latter days That the mountain of the LORD'S house Shall be established on the top of the mountains, And shall be exalted above the hills; And all nations shall flow into it. 3 Many people shall come and say, 'Come, let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, To the house of the God of Jacob; He will teach us His ways, And we shall walk in His paths.' For out of Zion shall go forth the law. And the word of the LORD from Jerusalem. 4 He shall judge between the nations, And rebuke many people; They shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks; nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war anymore. 5 O house of Jacob, come and let us walk in the light of the LORD." (See also Micah 4:1-5).

______________________________________

If you go just south of tracy, you will find NEW JERUSALEM.   This is why I want to see that note melissa wrote, what is the other street names.  what else does it say.  how is suitcase spelled. 

that whole area of tracy and the outskirts is all biblical to "someone" in that area.  It is "their" Jerusalm. 

I don't know if the feds understand this stuff or not but they were certainly out at 11th street searching right off and there is a reason they were out there.  Perhaps someone gave them a "clue", I don't know.  but they went North to OLD RIVER, and also south to 11th,


if we look at more of the wording it will tell a lot, but they will not release that note ugh.

okay, I am going to sleep. 

its also interesting the case she was reading about is
ROSE
and in ISRAEL

DD when we first heard of MH and her sickly daughter I asked on the Tracy Press site and I think on this one if killing Sandra was some kind of sacrifice to somehow save her own daughter. On line and in real life everyone thought I was nuts, lol. Honestly, you and I have the same brain I think, although I don't think we are nuts! Where was MH mom that day? She was said to have planned on taking MH daughter that next day, she had to have been up to Tracy on that day. who comes up to take a child for a visit and doesn't stay to visit with their family? She was up here already....

I wrote to DD and told her something I along with a lot of others saw the day Sandra went missing and would have happened at about the same time. I will post it.

At about 4:15ish as we all were standing on the side of the road on Tracy Blvd and Schulte waiting for the funeral procession to pass us, the police had started to slow and stop traffic at intersections. Two of the last cars to pass was a car that appeared to be a lowrider type, sort of driving slowly and waving at people, just sort of being disrespectful and stupid. The vehicle behind them was an suv type with a woman driving who had blond hair wavy hair, it was up but you could tell it was not straight  and fine. She seemed very frustrated and very much in a hurry. She was putting her arms up and hitting her steering wheel in frustration. Sounds like just another crazy driver but if you knew the mood in this town it was very much out of place. In fact everyone standing around me were asking WTH  is wrong with her, how horrible, sorry to have a funeral that is getting in your way....etc....  This has always stuck in my mind. I don't know who this woman was, (although I do wonder), I find it strange it happened about the same time Sandra  went missing. Did this woman have Sandra? She was going South on Tracy Blvd, the opposite side of the pond towards linne road or the 580 to the area of New Jerusalem.

This is Beautiful Rose....

(http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Sandra%20Cantu/rosepisamisthedeadchildmelissahadre.jpg)

That's interesting!!!
Did you pass that along to LE?  You never know, it could be useful....

This is such a HEARTBREAKING case...
...Poor little one...
I hope you are playing with Angels now, Rose!!! ::MonkeyAngel::

Snipped:
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1015473.html (http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1015473.html)

Due to the neglect and abuse she had endured, Rose suffered from language and behavioral problems. She would often bang her head against the wall and was not toilet trained. She knew no Hebrew, and had trouble connecting with her mother and grandfather, who were strangers to her. Thus the couple soon began neglecting her, and made various attempts to find an institution that would take her off their hands.

(http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu56/newshound4ever/FourYearOldChildMissingIsrael0IiNq9.jpg)
(http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu56/newshound4ever/FourYearOldChildMissingIsraelvnAcBO.jpg)
(http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu56/newshound4ever/470_rose.jpg)
(http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg193/vjones60/Angels/engelke-1.gif)

Did Melissa somehow KNOW this family???
I just do not get how or why she knew about it....
We have plenty of horrible cases here in the US to follow.  And the US was immersed in Caylee's case which was AWFUL!!!  So, why this one... in far away Israel?

Snipped:
http://www.examiner.com/x-1168-Crime-Examiner~y2009m5d26-Disturbing-evidence-found-on-computer-of-alleged-killer-of-Sandra-Cantu (http://www.examiner.com/x-1168-Crime-Examiner~y2009m5d26-Disturbing-evidence-found-on-computer-of-alleged-killer-of-Sandra-Cantu)

Disturbing evidence found on computer of alleged killer of Sandra Cantu
May 26, 4:43 PM

Investigators have found disturbing information on the computer of Melissa Huckaby, the Sunday school teacher accused of the abduction, rape, and murder of 8-year-old Sandra Cantu.

According to authorities, Huckaby’s hard drive contained multiple Internet searches about a murdered child in Israel. To see the video report, click here.

The child, 4-year-old Rose Pisam disappeared about a year ago and was missing for months.  Later, the girl’s grandfather was arrested and confessed to stuffing Rose’s body in a suitcase, which he dumped in a local river.

The similarities between the Sandra Cantu murder and the Rose Pisam case are startling:

    * Huckaby lived with her grandparents in the same mobile home park as the Cantu family—Rose’s mother, Marie Pisam, 23, was living with Ronnie Ron, 45, the girl’s grandfather.
    * Huckaby’s grandfather was the pastor at a church in Washington State during the 1980s where allegations of abuse were raised—Rose’s grandfather and mother were in a romantic relationship (Rose’s mother was married to Ron’s son Benjamin at the time).
    * Sandra’s body was found inside a suitcase in a drained irrigation ditch—Rose’s body was stuffed inside a suitcase placed in a river.

There are comments attached to one of the several articles I found on Rose in the Google Archives...
Snipped:
http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2008/09/11/israel-french-girl.html#socialcomments-submit (http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2008/09/11/israel-french-girl.html#socialcomments-submit)

This one stood out:

BCHimself wrote:
Posted 2008/09/11
at 6:26 PM

ETI wonder why the moderator would not or did not post my first comment on this terrible tradgedy?
My comments included;
Perhaps there are times when capital punishment must be considered and the killing of this little sweetheart is an example of one of these times. Now multiple this un-speakable act by 10 times ............ and there we have Clifford Olson, at our expense in Canada's prison's for the rest of his life.
I agree we should have banned the death penalty, however in cases of multiple homicide there must be an opportunity to review this punishment.
Just imagine the torture this little girls parents and family must go through everytime she is remembered? I cannot imagine it and all the while we have a useless piece of scum in our prisons, the likes of Clifford Olson.
Common sense, good judgement and a base line of intelligence dictates this monster should have been executed.

Snipped:
http://www.allserialkillers.com/clifford_olson.htm (http://www.allserialkillers.com/clifford_olson.htm)

Who is Clifford Olson???

(http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu56/newshound4ever/Clifford_Olson.jpg)

Clifford Olson - Murderer and Serial Killer

Clifford Robert Olson Jr. was born on January 1st, 1940 at St. Paul’s Hospital, Vancouver, B.C.  In his teenage years, he did crimes like B&E's, robberies, theft, etc.

While in B.C. Pen in 1974, sexually attacked a 17-year-old fellow inmate.  After being released he indecently assaulted a 7-year-old girl in Nova Scotia.  This was the beginning of his sexually deviant and murderous criminal activity. 

This quotation from the book called The Olson Murders illustrates his deviance.
Clifford Olson - Serial Killer Info

“During those seven years Olson’s prison style changed. To some he was known as ‘Bobo,’ a man who viciously ‘muscled’ or buggered young inmates. To others he became knows as ‘The Senator.’ This was because he honed his cell-room lawyer’s skills, by writing incessantly to both federal and provincial politicians with a barrage of complaints about prison conditions. He was also a `stoolie’, a person who would inform on anyone for any reason. This trait made him unpopular with both inmates and guards and he eventually needed protective custody.”

Olson was moved to the Super Maximum Unit (SMU), commonly known as the Penthouse, the “rat and rapo” unit, where the most despised cons were housed. It was here that he met accused child-killer Gary Francis Marcoux

Olson was arrested for impaired driving and for contributing to juvenile delinquency. He crashed his car with his 16-year-old female passenger in Agassiz, a farming hamlet in the Valley about an hour from Vancouver. Olson had picked her up in the Cottonwood Avenue and North Road area of Coquitlam, Daryn Johnsrude and Olson’s neighborhood
Although the young girl could not be convinced that Olson was a sex offender, she did tell the police that he had offered her a job, had bought her drinks and given her pills. She palmed one of the tiny emerald knock-out pills, later giving it to the police. The laboratory identified it as chloral hydrate, commonly known as knock-out drops or a Mickey Finn

A serial killer was on the loose and the people in the Lower Mainland and Fraser Valley region of British Columbia were gripped with fear. In the short time span, from November 1980 to July 1981, a number of children had gone missing, and were later found dead. Parents in suburban Vancouver complained that the police were not treating reports of the missing youths seriously enough. The 200 Mounties in the Surrey detachment processed roughly 2000 missing-person cases and investigated some 18,000 criminal code offenses in those two years. Many of the juveniles turned out to be runaways, congregating on the Granville Street area downtown, while some stayed with friends or out partying past their curfew, without informing their parents. The police figured, “They’d turn up” -- and for the most part they did.

Under surveillance, Olson was not easy to follow. The “watchers” claimed that he would stop in the middle of the street, make sudden inexplicable U-turns, and go down one-way alleys, stop, and reverse. He also had a habit of continually changing rental cars: a Pinto, a Mustang, a Bobcat, a Lynx, a Honda, a panel truck, a Citation, an Escort, an Omega, and an Acadian. Olson drove incessantly. At one point, he traveled over 20,000 kilometers in three months in 14 different rental cars. In mid-July he drove an Escort 5,569 kilometers in just two weeks.

Olson took the ferry over to the Vancouver Island and, after burglarizing two Victoria residences, made his way up north towards Nanaimo, an old coal-mining town. He pulled over to the side of the road to pick up two young women hitchhiking. Hitchhiking was a popular mode of travel for the young in 1981.

Roughly three hours later, writes Ian Mulgrew in Final Payoff, the car was weaving across the highway on the other, sparsely populated side of the massive island. Occasionally, it hit the soft shoulder. At the bottom of Hydro Hill, just before the turn-off for Long Beach, the car slowed. It turned onto a dirt-logging road, kicking up a cloud of dust and gravel.

Moments later, two local RCMP squad cars pulled to a stop across the entrance to the road, blocking the car’s retreat and disgorging the uniformed Mounties. They had been summoned by the helicopter crew.

Two police officers followed the car’s path, picking their way through the Douglas fir and spruce that lined either side of the isolated track. In the distance, they could see three people standing outside the car passing a bottle, and they could hear Olson. They moved closer. He was telling one of the women to take a walk. He began to yell. The police decided it was time to move.

Olson spotted the police emerging from the undergrowth and sprinted back to the car. He threw the vehicle into gear and roared back the way he had come, but he was arrested at the roadblock. The women were confused, but safe. Olson said they had only stopped so he could relieve himself.

Police charged him with impaired and dangerous driving, impounded his car, and took him to local lock-up. The police searched his rented car and found a green address book with the name of the 14-year-old New Westminster girl—Judy Kozma.

By now, Olson had killed 10 children in southern British Columbia and, by the time he was finished, 11 would be dead. It was not the largest body count in the occurrence of multiple murders in Canada --- in 1949, all 23 passengers aboard a Dakota were killed by Montreal jeweler Joseph Guay, for the sole purpose of killing his wife --- but the Olson murders caused the greatest terror and horror.

“When he was arrested, only three bodies had been discovered and identified. The police did not yet know how many children had been murdered.


August 6, 1981

“The 6th was a momentous day,” Northorp declared. “It was the beginning of the events that have probably taken Olson off the streets of Canada for the rest of his life.” It was also the beginning of several days of methodical police work. The surveillance team went into high gear.

August 7 to 11, 1981

Solving a murder usually boils down to a lucky break. Peter Sutcliffe, the Yorkshire Ripper, was arrested by two vice cops concerned about license plates. He was driving a car with stolen plates, was arrested, and later confessed to 13 murders --this after some 250 detectives had been deployed and almost $8 million dollars had been spent on the investigation. There was also evidence that Sutcliffe had been questioned nine times by the English police and was even arrested once with his hammer, his favorite weapon, but somehow happened to escape detection.

The extensive national coverage of the missing children was likened by some members of the media to the Yorkshire Ripper case in Great Britain and the Atlanta child killings. U.S. Human Resources Minister Grace McCarthy claimed: “We have our own little Atlanta going on.

“I feel the police, in total, did a tremendous job,” Northrop concluded. “All you have to do is compare the length of time it took the police in other jurisdictions to solve their serial killings. Twenty-nine blacks, twenty-seven male and two female, ranging in age from seven to twenty-eight years, were murdered in Atlanta, Georgia, from July 1979 until May 1981. In 1981 only two of the cases were close to being cleared when Wayne Williams was indicted for the two latest murders, both of adults.”

Also in both jurisdictions all of the victims’ bodies had been found. Not so in the Olson case, eliminating the chance of securing leads or even knowing if one person was responsible. “The fact that known and suspected victims were both male and female,” said Northorp, “was in itself most unusual and further complicated matters,” ignoring the fact that the Atlanta child murders also involved victims of both sexes and a wide range of ages, including young adults.

“We didn’t interview Olson until his arrest on the 12th of August,” said Maile, “because we didn’t have anything.”

August 12, 1981

“I had no idea this would be the day when the big break would come,” declared Northorp, “nor did Olson have any idea this would be his last day as a free man.” The decision was made to arrest Olson on Vancouver Island, then commence intensive interrogation.

August 18, 1981

Olson was charged with the first-degree murder of Judy Kozma, which ultimately resulted in a full confession.

August 21, 1981

Supt. Bruce Northorp had been heading the task force for three weeks with no real guidelines to follow. He had to assemble some 150 officers who were at that time working the case, digest all the information accumulated before he took the assignment, plan strategy, deal with the media, and a myriad of other details. He was shocked at the turn of events. “At 8:35 a.m. I got a real jolt,” said Northorp. “I learned for the first time of the $100,000 deal put forward by Olson.”

The “Cash-for-bodies” Deal

“I’ll give you eleven bodies for $100,000. The first one will be a freebie,” Olson offered the police.

“I felt the intense pressure over the ensuing hours,” said Northorp. “We were so close [to breaking the case]. But could Olson really be so stupid as to enter into an agreement that would likely result in his spending the balance of his days in prison?” Still, there was no concrete evidence that the missing children and the murders were related.

The bodies of Weller, Johnsrude, King, and Kozma had been recovered. Olson proposed a schedule to recover the missing bodies of the dead children, one at a time, in a specific order and then money would be placed in an account:

Chartrand at Whistler
Daignault at Surrey
Carson at Chilliwack
Four locations where evidence would be found
Court at Agassiz
Wolfsteiner at Chilliwack
Partington at Richmond
German girl at an unspecified location “You’ll get statements with the bodies,” said Olson. “I’ll give you all the evidence, the things only the killer would know.”
As Olson led police to further bodies, Northop said in his co-authored book Where Shadows Linger, “I was convinced Olson’s admission to two more murders was merely a ploy, bearing in mind his many escapes from custody, tight security was laid on. Olson was to be taken in a car with three unarmed police officers, with one handcuffed to him. The car was to be escorted by two other cars, with two officers in each, armed with revolvers, rifles, and shotguns. District Two was alerted that Olson might be taken their way, and I arranged for the use of a police aircraft. If escape was on his mind, he would not succeed.”

In the year 2000, in a Vancouver Sun article called “Ex-Mounties Deny Olson Case was Botched,” two retired RCMP officers, Fred Maile and Ed Drozda, among other disclaimers, said there is no truth to allegations in Where Shadows Linger: The Untold Story of the RCMP’s Olson Murders Investigation, that flaws in the investigation may have allowed Olson to claim seven more victims before he was finally caught. Drozda said, “Hindsight plays such a large part. It is so wonderful with all the information before you to say, `Oh wow, look at this.’ At the time you are putting together a puzzle and these pieces somewhere along the way have to fit. It’s not only surfacing someone who is a suspect but also in putting the evidence together to take it to court and get a conviction.”

Maile’s boss, Staff Sergeant Arnie Nylund, commented in Where Shadows Linger, “Fred seemed to know what he was doing, and I had never seen anything to indicate otherwise. It is easy to view these things in hindsight and draw conclusions. We had other suspects that looked better than Olson. Don’t forget, it was not apparent a serial killer was on the loose. Up until then the guys were busy working on a number of other homicides not related to these cases at all. After Olson was in jail we had all kinds of second-guessers. We did the best we could with what we had. I have nothing but respect for the guys and how they did it. It was terrible, just terrible for those members who accompanied Olson when they were recovering those bodies. It was so bad I had to send one man home. He just couldn’t take it anymore.”

“It’s not an investigation you like to talk about too much because of the nature of what he was doing. I mean he was killing children,” Maile told the Vancouver Sun. “To me, if there was ever an image of the devil, it was Clifford Olson.”

The Deal Exposed

The secret deal had been cut in 1981, but was exposed to the media a year later.

“Olson Was Paid to Locate Bodies” was just one of the bold front-page headlines on January 14, 1982 in the Vancouver Sun. On January 15th the Sun headline read: “Olson Deal Greeted by Disgust.” The police had not disclosed the cash deal for fear of prejudicing Olson’s right to a fair trial. At some point the Attorney General of British Columbia, the federal Solicitor General, the Commissioner and Deputy Commissioner of the RCMP in Ottawa, as well as the Prime Minister of Canada would be drawn into the controversy.

Many thought it repugnant that Olson was profiting from his crimes. “I found it unthinkable he should be paid to provide evidence,” said Supt. Bruce Northorp, the head of the task force. “The proposition to pay Olson’s wife was simply splitting hairs. She was not separated from him, and Olson stood to gain even if monies were paid to his wife. The situation may have been different if she were separated and were supplying information as to past criminal activity. That was not the case.”

Northorp had to admit though that he felt a tremendous sense of relief that the killings were solved and no more children would die. When asked what evidence had been found, Northorp replied, “I won’t go into detail. Essentially, they were items, which could be established as belonging to each of the four victims, whose bodies had been found without Olson’s assistance, thus establishing he was the killer. Only the killer would have knowledge of where these articles had been hidden.”

The Attorney General of British Columbia, Allan Williams, also wondered how such an appalling deal had been made. Yet the good news was, in exchange for $100,000, the Attorney General could guarantee a first-degree murder conviction, ease the anxiety of the parents of the missing children, subdue the terror in British Columbia, and end an expensive police investigation. There was no hard evidence and Olson, an experienced criminal, was unlikely to talk without it. The day before Clifford Olson was charged with the death of Judy Kozma, he had a two-hour visit with his wife Joan and their infant son. “I could not stop crying during those two hours,” wrote Olson in a letter February 5th, 1982, to Genevieve Westcott, a CBC television reporter in Vancouver, as to why he pleaded guilty.

“I told my wife that I was responsible for the deaths of the children and that I could not live with myself nor have any peace of mind until I confess to what I had done and give back the bodies to their families for a proper Christian burial.

“My wife told me that if I told police (R.C.M.P.) what I did, they would lock me up in jail for the rest of my life and I would in all probability be killed in jail. She said what would she tell our son when he grew up and everyone was teasing him at school for what his father had done. I told her it will be up to me to tell my son what has happened. I knew in my heart that I must give up my wife and son for the rest of my life. . My son will have to [sic] father to call Daddy and he will grow up knowing his father for the sins he has done. And my wife will always bear my mistake for the rest of her life. She told me that I must do what is right and that she will always love me and that someday we would be n [sic] heaven together praising the Lord together.”

Olson may have been trying to bolster his own image because he also was heard to say: “If I gave a shit about the parents I wouldn’t have killed the kid.”

Thursday, July 30, 1981

Meanwhile Const. Fred Maile of the RCMP Serious Crimes Unit had a simple strategy. His idea was to surreptitiously tape a conversation with Olson insinuating some kind of a reward. The idea was, if Olson was the murderer, and he thought he could make some money from that fact, he might go back to the crime scenes in order to retrieve some physical evidence. If he was not the murderer or knew who the murderer was then maybe he would tell them.

Olson met Detective Tarr at a White Spot Restaurant, and then was joined by RCMP’s Corporal Maile and Corporal Drozda. The hidden microphones transmitted the conversation to a Mountie in a car in the parking lot. Final Payoff describes this tense 30 minutes:

“Quite a few homicides around here, right?” Maile began. “And we understand that you might be able to help us. We’re prepared to compensate you for whatever you’re able to tell us or help us. But we have to know if you are able to help us.

“He stopped and blew on his coffee. All eyes were on Olson. For a while he said nothing.

“Finally, Olson said he wanted to be hired at a salary of $3,000 a month. In exchange, he claimed he would provide information about the disappearances.”

Olson’s eyes lit up at the idea that they were coming to him for information. He spent much of the time bragging about testifying in Marcoux’s conviction of “that Jeannie,” promising to get back to them if he found out anything.

With a casual, “Well, I’ll get back to you if I find out anything,” the officers watched the killer leave the restaurant and amble out into the sunshine. No one followed the man suspected of murdering several children.

ok ya'll..bear with me because i don't know how to link and i have read everything i can find in this case.  i read this either in an article or a post by ???  a while back.  if you google my grandfather doesn't love me-or-grandfather doesn't love me..you come to Rose's case.  i wonder if mh had feelings that pa-paw was put out with her and googled my grandfather doesn't love me.  then Rose's case shows up and well...i don't know what she decided to do after that.  i have a theory that mh was tryin' to set up pa-paw 'cause maybe he didn't love her?  just a theory.

Hi Mama!
And THANKS... ::MonkeyAngel::
That is very interesting indeed!!!!!!!!!

hiya LONE!   ::MonkeyDance::

Hey Mama!
I googled like you said and it DID come up that way!!!
What a clever monkey you are!!!!! ::MonkeyCool::

thanks for that but i can't take the credit.  somebody found it before me (too bad i can't remember where or who)

It's a bit of an odd thing to google, don'tcha think?
 ::MonkeyRoll::

very odd, but then again, this situation is odd.  maybe she felt that, and knew you could find anything on Google ::MonkeyHaHa::?  my project tomorrow is to Google -my grand father dosen't love me- and other than the Rose case see if there is anything that would catch the eye..maybe a book title, poem,??who knows.  maybe grams and papaw reviewed the cookies in the puter and it was mh's lame attempt to get attention?  but that seems kind of far-fetched.  it was googled for a reason and i don't think grams or pawpaw did it.  maybe it was a message 'from' mh's daughter about lack of time spent with her (daughters) grandfather?  here's a thought (and only that) when mh and ex divorced, it stated there were no children...in presser mh fatheralludes that he doesn't know who mh daughter's father is.  i wonder if daughter didn't call lane grand- father as well.  i don't know where i'm going with this.  i can't forget the mystery child that appeared out of thin air and has now disappeared back into it.   
sorry, thinking out loud ::MonkeyConfused::

I think I only went as far as page 5 when I googled it...
It will be interesting to see if you come up with anything~ ::MonkeyRoll::

lone, well i did my homework and could only go to page 21 of -grandfather dosen't love me google-  uggh...it was all letters and essays to grandpaw, Irsale news articles book reviews, and really bad poetry...but i when i got to page p there was a wiki answers topic...and the title of the question was -What do you do if your grandfather makes your uncles life hell (or something to that effect.  i'm gonna go back in a minuet, get the actual title and really read the thing...by the time i got there my eyes were crossed. ::MonkeyConfused:: ::MonkeyEek::

well that took forever. it's wiki Answers If your grandfather makes your uncles life a waking hell to the point that he gets pissed of and wants to fight with your grandfather what should you say to the uncle....,
well, it was a shot in the dark ::MonkeyDevil::

my personal believe is:  because of the note, and being the police will not release the note nor the name of the street nor how she spelled suitcase... it is my belief the note is "cryptic".  There are several other reasons why I personally believe melissa has been either reading crime forums, specifically perhaps serial killer murder case forums, or she has read books about them or she is involved with a group of cryptic killers.  I believe if she googled this girls murder case, she either has an interest in murder cases, or she somehow actually knew about the case.


just MY OWN belief about Melissa's involvement in Sandra's case.  It would not supprise me if we keep digging or if the feds would really dig they will find her connected to more murders or to the people who are responsible for other murders. 

I know I sound nuts, but it is okay, it is only my opinion.  Never hurts to dig and look ::MonkeyCool::

DD, I couldn't agree with you more.  Random act, I don't think so.  I believe MH had a real need to feel like she "belonged" -- I think we have much to uncover.

::MonkeyShocked::
1)Whoa...
2)ABSOLUTELY ANYTHING ...is POSSIBLE with this family!!!!

DD and Sister,
i agree on a level
you don't go from normal to kidnapper, rapist, murder in one day..
Let's keep digging!