Scared Monkeys Discussion Forum

Hey All YOU AWESOME MONKEYS!!!! ::MonkeyCool::
This is one dilly of a confusing case!!!
I thought it would be a good idea to have a thread to voice questions, theories, or ways to help and/or research...

One thing I am doing is starting WAY back on page 1 of the Timothy Lawless Connection.  There is tons of info on that thread...
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4964.0 (http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4964.0)
Little gems of info just waiting to be noticed.  Sometimes things seem insignificant at the time of originally researching....but can later turn out to be a missing piece of the puzzle...
You will find me there in that thread often!!!

                                  ::MonkeyAngel::JUSTICE FOR SANDRA ::MonkeyAngel::

Hi again Lone, that is what I have been doing from the get go. Me don't do research.  What will be the most awesome task is to read all of it first (more than 6,000 comments), because many of the questions asked in the beginning are answered several hundreds of comments later.

In my third time through here is one of my questions:

John Mack Lawless (not to be confused with McNealy A. Mack Lawless) is the uncle of CLL.  He was born 1893? and died 1965.  Did he marry, if so, to whom, and did he have children?  I don't think he did marry, but I am not sure.

There is also an John M. Lawless (born prior to 1946) who is the cousin of CLL.  He is the second born of Richard Birdette Lawless (1910-1969) who married Betty June Grimes/Lawless Johnson.
Did this John M. get married and did he have children (I think he did)?

You are the BEST ANALYZER, Sister!!!!!!!! ::MonkeyCool::
Is this what you mean?

From NorRose:
McNealy (Mack) A. Lawless
B. 16 Feb 1846 , Patrick Va
D. 12 Oct 1908, Peru, Miami, Ind.

Married 1846

Sarah Ann Nicholas daughter of George Nicholas and Mary Warner 1846, Patrick  Co, VA
B. 6 Jul 1842, Patrick County , VA
D. 27 Jan 1914, Peru, Miami, Ind.

These are Minnie's parents.

Oh...
I see I confused them...Ooops
Hmmm
Then so far I have not come across any other info...but I'll keep on lookin!!! ::cartwheel::

Here's something for Monkeys wondering what to research... ::MonkeyAngel::
(I'll try to find each of Blink's requests and see to it we have followed up on them!)
MONKEYS ROCK!!! ::MonkeyDance::

Lone, we started the In Trouble With the Law thread for this -- I have an index running for all the cases and when we have found all we can find, I'll print it out.

I think the Dewayne Harris family is just as scarce as the cll family thats what gets me, and I also have an hunch that the Harris family maybe be related to the Roberson family.

And everytime I feel like I am getting somewhere I get stuck and come to a dead end. We have a missing link and I wonder if that one link is what will put it all together?

Awesome!!!!!!! ::MonkeyCool::
1 Blink request down...how many to go???
I have to run some errands but I shal be back later!!!!!
(http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu56/newshound4ever/gif.gif)

I 2nd that, LOVE!!!!!!! ::MonkeyConfused::

And thank you sister for going through the Timothy J lawless/Gomes thread it has provided and refreshed our memories of research that has been done that we forgot about..lol

And DD, thank youfor all the family lines that connect, I know through the simple research I do, I couldn't imagine putting multiple families all together like you do!!

And Lone, thank you for all your research as well, and your thoughts and for providing us with photos in reminder of the little girls we are fighting for. I have cried more times than not just looking at their beautiful faces and seeing their beautiful souls through their beautiful eyes. How could someone ever do what they do to such beautiful angels of our world:(

And Tracygirl thank you for all your thought provoking theories, it helps to look at things in a different perspective. I get lost in my research, I will start looking one place and take a detour onto something else. lol...It is easy to do I guess? but thank you. And I remember reading a post about you ready to leave Tracy. I know I would, it seems scary there.

~Love~

Well we can use this thread for folks who want to help but get overwhelmed by the whole case...
 we can post Blink's requests
And for sure ...if anyone just wants to VENT!!!Lol.... ::MonkeyDevil::

Hey Love...
Right BACK at YA!!!! ::MonkeyAngel::
http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu56/newshound4ever/monkeysjpg.jpg (http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu56/newshound4ever/monkeysjpg.jpg)

oops
Love this is for you!!!!!
(http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu56/newshound4ever/monkeysjpg.jpg)

AwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwThat is so fricken sweet!!!!!!!! We needed this thread to vent!!! ::MonkeyRoll::

yes, yes, yes, plus it will help keep the other threads on topic, sorta, kinda
 :smooch

I just wanted to say that I have followed this research from the beginning of Blink's article on BOC. Everyday, few times a day, I come in to catch up. I suck at researching, and I suck at computers, but all you guys are doing a fantastic job, and I really wish that I could offer some kind of assistance.

I look forward to the day I come in to see this all wrapped up with a pretty bow!

You guys rock! Carry on...   ::MonkeyDance::  ::MonkeyAngel::  ::MonkeyDance::

ok, I believe the only dumb question is the one we don't ask.
Where is Leavenworth as in the prison?
Reason I'm asking, Luann and Gerry Lawless lived for a while there, as in Leavenworth.  Wonder why?

Thanks Love, I don't know if I really offer any help or not sometimes. I hope so. I do not have the patients for researching, I just over think everything to death. lol

Yes BTW I do want to move out of the area.

This is the extent of my research abilities, lol.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Penitentiary,_Leavenworth

Thanks, Tracy girl, Leavenworth prison is in Kansas.
Not the answer then to my question, but thank you for searching for me.

Next "I'm confused"
Timothy J Lawless' mother Maryilym Elizabeth Tieken/Short/Lawless/Gomes married Timothy's father, Gary D. Lawless in June of 1968.  She married him under the name of Tieken and she married him under the name of Short.  She married him after the birth of all 3 sons (Timothy, Gary D., and Jeffrey Carl).  One month, count it, one month later, she divorces him.
Question, why would a woman marry a man under 2 different names? and then divorce him one month later?

I have been told neither married and neither have children.  Also that they are both buried in brewster WA.  I wish I could say where I am getting this info, but I can't.  ugh.  I can say that the person I am in contact with KNOWS for sure 1000000% all about the family, the ONLY way their info would not be true is if they were out and out lyinng on purpose, however, I don't know why they would.  So I think we cann assum the innfo is correct

I'll take that as they never married.  Why I have the 4 children thing circled
 :smt102

I started a MAP THREAD, and leavenworth is on the first map on the thread
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=5445.0

all of these places are just outskirts of where all the lawless famliy settled. 

that has been one of my very first questions.  Strange.  And where does she come up with the last name of SHORT?  LOL.  btw, both of the records for the two names were recorded on the same day. 

I just received new info(this was part of it about never married/no kids) so I still am getting it all updated in the database and will post the updated report soon.  please excuse all my typos this stupid screen is jumping all over again.  grrr, does it do that for anyone else? ugh.  so annoying

what 4 children?

I had the cousin of CLL, John M. Lawless, son of Richard Birdette Lawless, as having 4 children.  I don't know where I got that.

I think it might have been posted early on now that I think about it, and it was never verified, might have been something someone had found in a family tree or something, and was working on to verify or not.   there was a family tree over in ancestry.com that info came from and it had mistakes in it, so that might be where it originally came from. 

this is why I try to get the actual records to confirm things, because so many of those family trees people post are wrong.

that very well is probably what happened.
I do also wonder how Maryilyn was a Short.
This is about where things start to really do haywire on all fronts -- around the mid 60s.

okay hmmm maybe he did marry?  gee. 

ok I think northernrose found the shutt marriage with 4 children, then I copied her post to sort through something to connect so I had reposted this post
_________________


John Lawless married Ms. Shutt ( father Mr Shutt mother Ms. Halliday)
 They had 4 children

Child one male
Child two male
Child three female
Child four male

Chronology of John:

1976 played football in High School

1979 flys home to visit parents Betty and Don Johnson from North Seattle Community College.

1978 flew to Louisville Kentucky to visit John McCollum his former Bridge Port Teacher

1980 – 1982 - on mission for the LDS Church from 1980-1982 in the San Diego area

1982 Jan 6 – started at BYU Provo – Studying to be an electrical engineer

1982 (Mar) Don and Betty Johnson are in Utah visiting and John who is attending school at BYU in Provo visited them in Salt Lake.

1982 (Dec) visits Brewster for 10 days from BYU in Provo

1983 Returns to parents home( Don and Betty Johnson) after attending BYU in Utah.  Plans to continue schooling during winter quarter.

1986 calls home at Christmas from Bangor, Maine
__________________


now I reread my new notes and it says john mack uncle of cll never married/no kids, and does not say about his cousin john mack, son of richard birdette lawless.  only that he lives in brewster wa. 

so gee.  boo on me.  I will get this all together in an updated report so I don't have to try to remember off the top of my head. ugh

john mack the cousin seemed to be a mormon, so is the son of don lafayette johnson who bette june grimes/lawless married after she divorced richard birdette lawless.  so this is where the mormon's come in I guess? 

So the John Lawless who is the Johnsons son is not married??..lol and he is Cll's cousin?

Perfect thread..."I'm Confused"..lol Good one LONE!~~~ ::cartwheel::

ok, Richard Birdette Lawless actually goes by the name Dick who is carleen Shepards father in Brewster?

do you walk to school or carry your lunch
yes.
 :smt073
but the answer to your question is no, maybe.
The uncle of CLL did not marry, maybe cousin also named John Lawless did.

I never saw that he goes by the name of Dick, though seems logical, I have seen him go by Birdette.  Anyway, Carleen Lawless, daughter of Richard/Dick Birdette Lawless and Betty June Grimes/Lawless/Johnson have four children.  She is the first child and she married Tom Shepherd and they have three children, Judd, Sarah, and Terry.  Second child is John M. Lawless, third child is Nancy Lawless, and fourth child is Gerald Dee Lawless who married the infamous Luann Warner/Campbell/Fox/Lawless.

The geneology thread probably explains this better than me.
 :2thinky:

there is also a richard allen lawless, son of richard birdette lawless. 

I understand now...Thank you sister ::MonkeyTongue::...and I carried a sack lunch and my mom always put green apple jolly rancher candies in it::cartwheel:: in it..lol

I have been TOLD this info..

 James Webster Lawless {1865-1945}, had: George Webster, John Mack, William Bryan, Ralph Devere, and Richard Birdette. They all lived, and are now buried, in Brewster WA. there is no one named Gary. There are no second cousins on this line, as none of James' siblings had any children.  George had 2 sons: Lane and Paul, Lane had 2 sons: Brian and Brett and all 3 live in CA. Paul never married or had children and is deceased.  John and Uncle Ralph never married or had children.  Bill had 1 adopted son: Bill, who is not married nor does he have any children and lives in the same town Brewster, WA. Sons of richard birdette lawless are Gerald Dee, Richard Allen, and John Mack, all living in WA. So I don't think James Lawless could be related to the Gary D or Ronald Sutton. But it is a mystery where James was for a # of years, so there is a possibility of a second family I suppose. But we do know that $ was sent to Missouri to bury James, in Nov 1945. So I don't think there is a CA connection, but who knows. I guess anything is possible.

the info in the previous post is about the BOYS.  does not include daughters.  this is because I was asking about boys / is there a gary etc. 

Is he the Richard Lawless that married Clarenda Harris McKey?

Hi Gizzie.  you don't have to know how to research to help, just brainstorming ideas sometimes triggers something everyone else misses.  or you might be scanning through info and notice someone connects to something else where we have alll mjissed it.  there is so much info on these threads it is osmetimes hard to connect it all.

Nancy Lawless married & became Nancy Pizzatola nee lawless

richard birdette lawless married wilma toots first then he married bette june grimes, I have not found any other marriages. 

ok, I got something else I need to have clarified:
Betty June Grimes/Lawless/Johnson -- her father was Paul Johanthan Grimes (1887-1962) married Florence Lucile Shepard (1889-1987).  That can't be right????

what are you seeing that it can't be right? LOL

I can recheck it though

I know you have better things to do, so this is my last confused
who did richard allen lawless marry?

I don't mind at all.. all good questions. 

I don't know yet who he married LOL.  I just recently found out he existed.  LOL

I will be looking it up soon though

Florence Lucile Shepard

Florence Lucile Shepard Grimes Conant, 88, of Prosser died at the Prosser

Memorial Nursing Home on March 8, 1987.  She was born on January 7, 1899, in Flora, Illinois, to Hiram Jacob and Susan Frances (Blackford) Shepard. She grew up in

Flora and Springfield, Illinois, where she received her education. Florence moved

with her parents to Pinenial, Montana in 1914, where she met her husband, Paul

Grimes in 1920. They were married April 17, 1921, in Belle Fourche, South Dakota. To

them were born eight children, Paul Eugene, Bette June, Robert Alfred, Melvin Richard, Thomas

Bartlett, Kathryn Maxine, Carl Francis, and James Edwin.

They owned and lived on a 1500 acre cattle and sheep ranch on Indian Creek, 24

miles north of Belle Fourche, South Dakota until they moved out to Cashmere, Washington in

1937. In 1950 they moved to Prosser, Washington where Paul died in 1962. In 1963,

Florence married Chris Conant and he died in 1975.

Florence was a member of the American Legion Auxiliary, the VFW Auxiliary Rosa

Barracks, the Royal Neighbors, the Senior Citizen Center, the Republican

Women's Club and the Happitime Band.

Florence was interned in the East Prosser Cemetary beside her husband, Paul,

on March 11,1987.

It was in the Spring of 1921 that my mother and Father first met. The

weather was just right to go for long walk and enjoy scenery, especially the

wildflowers along the way. Just maybe, she thought, a letter

today. The mailbox was about a mile from the ranch where she was staying.

As Florence neared the mailbox she saw a very good looking cowboy

sitting on his horse reading his mail and her heart skipped a beat. When he

saw her he said "Hi! Are you from the Blackford ranch? She answered " Yes,

I'm visiting my Uncle Ammon and his family". He said "Great, I work for your

Uncle.  My name is Paul J. Grimes. Then he asked if she would sew some

buttons on his shirts .

From this day on, Paul courted Florence and they were married that spring.

I think romance was in air in Montana that day!

There is a Richard Lawless that married Clarenda nee McKey.  Her father was Daniel and her mother Jane Pickens Hughes.
I feel like starting a who is this thread -- I've got dozens of them -- who is this Law-less person.
Nite and happy hunting.
 :smt015

richard allen married deanna L unknown, still looking

My oh My Sister!!!
Aren't you all dressed up..
I LOVE IT!!!!!!!! ::MonkeyWink::
Looking very Patriotic, indeed!

Betty June and Richard have a daughter Carleen who married a Sheperd?  Maybe the spelling is off.

That is a VERY GOOD question....
As a woman, when I ask myself...
"What would make me leave my husband after a month of marriage???"
One answer that surely comes to mind is....
I would if I found out my husband raped or molested someone.... ::MonkeyEek::
Just a monkey thought...

if ya'll can get me the name of ex-hubby (well any info ya can really) (mh's) i can see what i can do...i'm in arkansas...and everyone knows everyone uggh.  someone, either ex-hub or new wife, ::MonkeyNoNo:: ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyDevil:: has family in the area, because nobody just ups and decides to move to arkansas ::MonkeyTongue::

oh, thank you LM for noticing :>)  I had Brandi dress my bird for the coming holiday (although his blinking eye is giving me a headache).
BTW, thanks for this thread -- it is such a help!!

yes that is correct.

LOL

Good thought, but I'm not sure.  They marry after they have the kids, then are only married a month.  I'm not sure, can't get it in my head and then son Timothy is a level 3.

he is johnny jason huckaby.   name is actually johnny, not john. 

California Birth Index, 1905-1995
about Johnny Jason Huckaby
Name: Johnny Jason Huckaby
Birth Date: 16 Sep 1982
Gender: Male 
Mother's Maiden Name: Galloway 
Birth County: Monterey 
 

does she have ss# for both names?  sounds like id monkey business.  which one of her divorced him?  tieken or short?  both?  (seems like that would raise some flags)  if she married him under 2 different names (like she was 2 different people[and i don't think she was or had a split personality]) and only divorced him under one, wouldn't the other last name still be on record as being married?
sheesh...now i'm confused ::MonkeyConfused::

not her cousin I hope!!

I just wanted to second that!!!
FRESH eyes can really help!!!!  ::MonkeyRoll::

I don't think a record of her divorce was ever located.
Mama, I think he is remarried, not sure

hmmm I know he was in shawnee, maybe this is his father?  maybe that is why he moved there?

Social Security Death Index
about Johnny M. Huckaby
Name: Johnny M. Huckaby
SSN: 4xxxxxxxxx
Last Residence: 74801  Shawnee, Pottawatomie, Oklahoma, United States of America
Born: 25 Jan 1942
Died: 27 Jul 2001
State (Year) SSN issued: Oklahoma (1956-1957)
 

GREAT idea, Sis...
You Should!!!
Nighty-Night
 ::MonkeyAngel::

well this should be easy ::MonkeyWink:: only about a gazillion Huckaby's in ar..one was our last governor ...should be a piece of cake  ::MonkeyConfused:: ::MonkeyTongue::

divorce records are on here somewhere LOL.  I think I found only one under tieken?  and then she married manuel gomes about 5 years later.I think that is what I remember.

It makes me wonder ...yet AGAIN... about Luanne the Forger Lawless?!?!

I believe I posted his wife's name and their addresses on here somewhere.

I have to go to sleep will try to answer anything else tomorrow if I have the answers
nite

then they aren't really divorced are they? sheesh were gonna find out that his current wife is really his previous wife that he married twice under two names...heck, never mind what kind of woman would divorce a guy after a month of marriage, what kind of woman marries the same guy twice under two different names? ::MonkeyRoll::

You are funny Mama!!!! ::MonkeyHaHa::

This is part of a post from DD
Mother of all boys above
Name: Marylin Elizabeth Tieken
Birth Date: 20 Mar 1937
Gender: Female
Mother's Maiden Name: Forman
Birth County: Napa

Mother married Gary D Lawless AFTER all boys above were born
Name: Marylin E Tieken
Age: 30
Est. Birth: abt 1938
Spouse Name: Gary D Lawless
Spouse Age: 35
Est. Spouse Birth: abt 1933
Date: 6 Jun 1968
Location: Napa


Mother divorces Gary D Lawless a month After she married himcaifornia divorce
Name: Marylin E Ticken
Spouse Name: Gary D Lawless
Location: Napa
Date: Jul 1968

Mother is also married to Gary D Lawless using the last name of SHORT, on the very same day she married him under the last name if Tieken


Name: Gary D Lawless
Age: 35
Est. Birth: abt 1933
Spouse Name: Marylin E Short
Spouse Age: 30
Est. Spouse Birth: abt 1938
Date: 6 Jun 1968
Location: Napa


Mother then marries Manuel Gomes
Name: Marylin E Tieken
Age: 36
Est. Birth: abt 1937
Spouse Name: Manuel Gomes
Spouse Age: 44
Est. Spouse Birth: abt 1929
Date: 30 Oct 1973
Location: Solano

I found no divorce for marilyn and manuel gomes

I'm going to wet myself Mama -- hepme, hepme!!
 :oops:

did all three son's have the same last name?  was one of her names her maiden name?  where did the other one come from?  just from this little exchange i have a feeling that none of these people are who they claim to be...heck, they probably don't know their own real names..sounds to me like...'the heats movin' in ma, i never paid for that last cow, we gotta go.  chuck- you're now chris..etc. ::MonkeyEek::

it'll be ok sister..i got the tp (or in this case the pt or the tppt or whatever we want to call it when the mood hits us :smt102 :2brickwall:

the sons went by Lawless and Gomes, whenever they wanted, just like their mama.

Thanks, LM -- I made it, just like a big girl.
Nite for real.
 :2waver:

where did the name short come from?  she was born tieken...are we sure that lawless was the father of the boys...i'm just thinking about 1968 (well from what i know, its a little before my time)  california...end of the hippy movement.  free love, fight the man?  i have a feeling that she could have been married to short at some point in time, maybe left him?  got caught up in all the free love?  met lawless, married him, remembered she was still married to short so she did it again,,,naww.  i tried but she started out tieken and the first wedding she was tieken.  so then why the short?  unless they were planning to get rode out of town and wanted to get their alises down pat before it happened.
sorry..thinkin' out loud again

You're pretty good Sister!!!!
I don't know HOW to do that, man!
I love the glitter and sparklies!!!

I didn't do it, Brandi, another monkey did.  She is so gifted.
BRANDI'S AVATARS AVAILABLE HERE: http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4314.0

ok its a long shot..what if lawless isn't lawless?  what if he's short?  if short was HIS real last name it might make some since why she did it twice in one day.  if tiekin married lawless, she wouldn't be married to anyone..cause lawless isn't real.  so if she assumes his real last name as her last name (maiden) in the second "wedding"  at least it is documented somehow that she is married to the real guy.  ya'll know that all of this is very shady and i wouldn't be surprised if none of them can ever claim ss benefits. ::MonkeyEek::

i'm not gonna quit 'till i figure this out..see ya next year! ::MonkeyTongue::
i'm gonna run with my lawless isn't really lawless theory.
ticken-(real name as far as i'm concerned with this theory) marries lawless (alias, not even real)  lawless real name short  (it would be ironic to have to take an alias and it be lawless lol) ticken knows that by marring lawless she's not really married to anyone (however, the fact that she had 3 kids before they got hitched i don't think marriage wasn't a pressing matter..i have the feeling that paper work was.)  so after ticken marries lawless, she then assumes the maiden name short (who she really just married)  so on a legal document the short's (real name, although not hers) are now legally tied to lawless.  so if say, dad wanted son to have 'real' last name-not alias they could by this happening.  now here's the kicker...it's ticken who divorces lawless...and if lawless dosen't really exist, then she' s not divorced (but was she ever legally married in the first place?  can you marry the same person on the same day under two different names..i doubt it.  it borders on pologmy....unless marylan ticken and marylan short really are two different people.  one we know is ticken dob mar 20 1937 in napa her mothers maiden name was foreman..then we have marylan short dob ? about 1938  well march is only 3 months into a year.  so short ends up being about a year older than ticken.  what woman wants to add an extra year to her age?  and ticken divorced lawless, then ticken married gomes and her year of birth goes back to 1937.  but both times she married lawless and when she divorced him she was a year older...but when she was born the year was 1937, and when she married gomes it was 1937....now we need to find any death records of a marylin short born around 1937  or a gary short who vanished from the face of the earth.
ugghh
i gotta call it a night. ::MonkeyConfused::

ugggg..if they were two different women it would be poligomy anyway...ouch, i just sprained my brain.. ::MonkeyShocked::

Mama, I don't think Marylyn is dead yet, but we could try and get in contact with Luann Warner/Campbell/Fox/Lawless the forger and she could probably make one up.

no..not marylyn  ticken  (the living one) marylyn short (the one who just showed up to marry gary on the same day m ticken did)  by golly if lawless is really lawless and not short then marylyn short est yob 1938 could have had her identity stolen by marylyn ticken  mar 20 1937.  marylyn ???decited she needed to be two different people who are a year apart in age when marring and divorcing lawless.  she was born 1937, when she marries gomes she was born in 1937.  but both marylyns who married lawless year of birth 1938.  when mary t. decides to divorce him (a whole month later) year of birth 1938.  mary short is still married to lawless (no divorce record) and she was born in 1938.  so i'm either gonna firmly believe that gary lawless could have been gary short at sometime  or mary t stole mary shorts name and year of birth..but why?  its not like she's 17 and they're crossin' state lines.  she was a thirty year old mother of three.

oh my, i don't think i have the energy tonight to mess with that mess ::MonkeyEek:: ::MonkeyDevil::

You've got me laughing so hard I can't think (thank you, I needed an excuse!).
 :smt081

sorry i got my math backwards..m ticken (forman) dob 3-20-37...m ticken marries lawless est yob 1938  m short marries lawless est yob 1938 m ticken divorce lawless est yob 1938
m ticken marries gomes est yob 1937.  she (or they, heck i'm just gonna call them the gals) got a year younger while with lawless.  wth? ::MonkeyConfused::

or the other way around..she could have been born m short est yob 38 and taken over m tickens (forman) 3*20*37 id.  ok i need a link or info about her sons birth cert.  i wonder what year she was born in then?

yeah, but how old was she, whoever she it is, when she divorced?  Younger or older.  Short or Lawless?  These are burning questions.

i glad your enjoying yourself...i'm almost :smt073 :smt032 :scratch: ::MonkeyConfused:: ::MonkeyDevil:: ::MonkeyEek::

Timothy J. Lawless/Gomes born in 1964
Gary D. Lawless/Gomes born in 1966
Jeffrey Carl Lawless/Gomes born in 1967

one of their mothers marries on June 6, 1968 and divorces in July, 1968.
She was rushing those babies -- ouch!!!

when m tinkin married and divorced lawless et yob was '38..when m short married lawless et yob was '38 (since m short never divorced him i can't give ya that info. )   but m tinkin (forman) dob is 3-20-37 and the m tinkin that married gomes et yob is '37...
so to answer you who ever (either of the gals) married lawless was a year younger than m tinkin (forman) and stayed that way until m tinkin married gomes..then she got a year older '37...thats why i need the birth cert info from her sons...i find out ..now i'm on a mission ::MonkeyHaHa::

thanks hon ::MonkeyAngel::but i need moms dob from all three certs to see if she was growing younger before she married lawless or if the man is just magic that way.  did boys have last name lawless on birth cert?  hold that thought..i gotta look at something brb

ok, i'm back...when the older of the gals married gomes it was in..dam i can't find where i wrote it down  lets say'76 just for fun..the oldest tim would have been 12 (guesstament)  well i remember reading where he started with gomes and then switched it back to lawless (or vice verse)  was it a legal name change or was it just picking out a different name..  and i also want to see..well a lot..but the birth certs are a great start ::MonkeyTongue:: ::MonkeyConfused::

its all fishy..think about going to get a mar. license and getting a jp at the court house...yea. now imagine walking out of said court house, turning around and walking right back in to do it again...same people, but now the bride has a different name (and not the one she just got from her wedding five minuets before)  same groom, etc.  did they go right before shift change?  i'd really like to see the orig docs for both gals wedding and if it were the same jp? whatever?  that did it twice for them.

Mornin' Mama!! ::MonkeyRoll::
You're not off on some tangent!  In fact, there is now a whole thread which is about:
What if Clifford Lawless' last name is Lane...
There is much name, marriage and birth certificate tampering, it appears!  The name Lawless is almost FUNNY! ::MonkeyDevil::
I think DoubleD has info that may be leading in that direction.  And also it's very likely they have a Forger amongst them!

mama good thinking! I hadn't thought about the name lawless as being an alias.

she is the one listed as being marylin short married to gary d lawless. 

you sound like me when I am trying to explain all this crazy stuff  ::MonkeyDevil::
after you follow all this craziness for awhile you can kind of figure out something is really really wrong, but when you first are hearing it we all sound nuts ::MonkeyDevil::

I follow what you are saying, but only because I have studied this stuff to pieces.  poor poor poor people who read here for the first time  ::MonkeyDevil::

here it goes again  ::MonkeyConfused:: mary(lyn) started her life tiekin, married lawless then turned around and married him again the same day as mary short.  now there has to be a reason that name is there.  it goes to my theory that lawless started his life with the last name short and for whatever reasons adopted the alias lawless.  well maybe due to ties to the short family or money or?? he had mary remarry him with her claiming her maiden name as short.  that way there is still a doc with gary d lawess but also the name of short. mary tiekin divorced gary lawless, but mary short never did. now how she got younger while with him i still don't understand ::MonkeyConfused:: ::MonkeyTongue::

maybe we should start a new thread to sort out marylin tieken, her marriages etc.  A lot of the info is over in the genealogy thread but running back and for through there is a mess.  If you start a new thread I will gather up the info and stick it over there and then look for whatever we might be missing ::MonkeyCool::

what a nice thing to offer. i'm no good at the genealogy stuff, but i have a great hinky.  sure,  it could be some fun. ::MonkeyDance::

I just started a marilyn tieken thread so we can try to sort this out.  the thread is here
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=5476.new

"Dick" Lawless aka Richard Ray Lawless was born 08/05/48.  He is listed in the Trouble with the Law thread.  His son, also in the Trouble with the Law thread, is Richard Ray Lawless, Jr. who is married to an Amanda Marie Lawless, who is also listed in he Trouble with the Law thread.

I think there is a news article which refers to either richard birdette lawless or his son richard allen lawless, as "dick".  it is most likely somewhere in the HUGE thread, towards the first half, I think it is from one of the news articles posted by probably northernrose. 

 A question form BLINK

This si a Dick Lawless on FaceBook...
And all I can say is...Ewwwww!
WHO posts THAT as a PROFILE pic???? ::MonkeyDevil::
Put a shirt on, Fella!
http://www.facebook.com/people/Richard-Lawless/1448205024 (http://www.facebook.com/people/Richard-Lawless/1448205024)
(http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu56/newshound4ever/picphp-1.jpg)

i think this is Dick...Richard Ray Lawless
  ID
MT02592410    Name
Lawless, Richard Ray    Designation
   Offender Type
Sexual
Level
Non-Designated    Birth Date
Aug 5 1948

(http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu56/newshound4ever/dicklawless.jpg)

Physical Description

Physical Description Updated
03/22/2007    Race
Caucasian    Gender
Male    Age
60
Skin Tone
   Hair
Brown    Eyes
Hazel    Height
5'11
Weight
150    Scars/Marks/Tattoos

Last Known Address

Last Known Address Reported
   Address
742 Old West Mullen Trail    City
Elliston    State
MT
ZIP Code
59728    County
Powell

Offense

Sentence Date
09/24/1986    Montana Statute
Washington Rape Of A Child    Non-Montana Statute
Washington Rape Of A Child    Counts
1
Victims Sex
   Victims Age Range

Registration Agency

Registering Agency
Powell County Sheriff    Registering Agency Phone
(406) 846-2711    Registration Information Updated
05/12/2009 09:45:45 AM    Source
Montana Sexual or Violent Offender Registry

Here is Richard Allen Lawless
from Trouble with the Law
I don't think I posted this before288

(a)     ATTEMPTED LEWD OR LASCIVIOUS ACTS WITH CHILD UNDER 14 YEARS

LAWLESS      First Name: ROBERT     Middle Name:  ALAN
Description    Offenses    Scars/Marks/Tattoos    Known Aliases
Last Known Address:    201 W CALIFORNIA AVE # 321
SUNNYVALE, 94086
County:    SANTA CLARA
Zip Code    94086
Date of Birth:    09-23-1983
Sex:    MALE
Height:    5'10"
Weight:    160
Eye Color:    GREEN
Hair Color:    BLONDE
Ethnicity:    WHITE

Richard Allen Lawless born in 1983
Richard Ray Lawless born in 1948  I think this is aka Dick?
Richard Ray Lawless, Jr. born in 1971

that is ROBERT allen lawless, not RICHARD allen lawless LOL

these are not the richard allen lawless, son of richard birdette lawless. 

richard ray lawless

Name: Richard R Lawless
Birth Date: Aug 1948
Address: 3020 Grand Av #7, Everett, Washington 98201-0101 (1990)
[415 N Lakeview Rd #Tt4, Lynnwood, Washington 98037-0501 (1988)]
[6323 Beech St #21e, Everett, Washington 98203] 


DEER LODGE, MT
LEWISTON, ID
CLARKSTON, WA
MARYSVILLE, WA
EVERETT, WA
MOUNTLAKE TERRACE, WA
LYNNWOOD, WA Possible Relatives:

JEANBLANC, AMANDA MARIE (Age 30)
LAWLESS, RENEE M (Age 36)
LAWLES, RICHARD
BREITBACHLAWLESS, HEATHER CHRISTINE

Possible Roommates / Associates:

MONTGOMERY, BRENDA KAY (Age 51)
 

sorry, cut the wrong one
 :2redface:

here is richard allen lawless, brother of gerald dee lawless, carlee lawless, john mack lawless, etc
this is the son of richard birdette lawless. 

he is also knows as dick lawless or at least someone is connected to him with that name. 

LAWLESS, RICHARD A (Age 72)

Associated names:

 LAWLESS, R
 DEER PARK, WA
WENATCHEE, WA

 Possible Relatives:

LAWLESS, DEANNA L (Age 64)
LAWLESS, DICK 

Name: Richard A Lawless
Birth Date: Nov 1936
Phone Number: 663-4227
Address:
4920 W Staley Rd, Deer Park, Washington 99006-0401 (1993)
[1126 Glenwood St, Wenatchee, Washington 98801-1001 (1981)

DD, I'm confused, I thought the children of Richard Birdette Lawless were Carleen nee Lawless Sheperd, John Mack Lawless married to Shutt, Nancy nee Lawlesss Pizzitola, and Gerald D. Lawless married to Luanne nee Warner, et al.  With RBL's first wife (Wilma Holt), there may be a Bill Lawless.  Where did Richard Allan Lawless fit in?  Me very confused.

he is a brother we did not have that I have been told does exist, he is the brother of Carlee/Carleen, John Mack, Nancy and Gerald Dee Lawless. 

I am not sure who his mother is, whether bette june grimes or wilma holt, I will find out at some point. 


The only bill is the adopted son of William Bill Lawless uncle of CLL.

let me add. 

I am being TOLD this, I am still looking for docs to confirm, however we are probably not going to find confirmation of adoption.  But I believe what I am being told.  The person KNOWS without a doubt who everyone is. 

DD, I am so glad you have found someone who knows, what a huge help!

yes, it is helping, but it is a strange situation I can't explain and I can't just ask for info.  I just wait to be offered it  ::MonkeyCool::

One other thing I am confused about (not really, there are lots but that would be O/T), Richard and Betty were married in 1945.  Would that mean that Carleen, John M, and Richard A. were born before they were married?  We know Nancy was born around 1946 and Gerald after her.

carlee/carleen A Lawless is abt 54 years old so she would have been born abt 1955

hmmm if richard allen lawless is born nov 1936 he must be the son of wilma holt?

let me go check on all these dates. 

I know carlee's is right.

ok this is correct so far, will find the other dates and add them

Descendants of Richard Birdette Lawless


Generation No. 1

1.  RICHARD BIRDETTE3 LAWLESS  (JAMES H "W"2, MCNEALY A. "MACK"1) was born March 22, 1910 in Wenatchee, Washington, USA, and died May 26, 1962 in Brewster, Okanogan, Washington, United States.  He married (1) WILMA TOOTS HOLT 1936 in Seattle, King, Washington, USA.    He married (2) BETTE JUNE GRIMES December 31, 1945 in Pateros, Okanogan, Washington, USA.  She was born June 27, 1923 in Albion, Carter, Montana, USA.
   
Child of RICHARD LAWLESS and WILMA HOLT is:
   i.   RICHARD ALLEN4 LAWLESS, b. November 1936.

   
Children of RICHARD LAWLESS and BETTE GRIMES are:
2.   ii.   GERALD DEE4 LAWLESS.
   iii.   JOHN MACK LAWLESS.
3.   iv.   NANCY LAWLESS, b. October 1946.
   v.   CARLEE LAWLESS, b. Abt. 1955; m. TOM SHEPARD.

I believe this is correct, but will check more
Descendants of Richard Allen Lawless
                              
   1     Richard Allen Lawless   1936 -   b: November 1936                  
.      +Virginia Hammond                        
........   2     child Lawless                        
........   2     child Lawless                        
      *2nd Wife of Richard Allen Lawless:                        
.      +Nellie Phyllis Lawless   1942 - 1975   b: August 01, 1942   d: November 09, 1975 in Lincoln, Montana, USA      Age at death: 33         
........   2     child Lawless                        
      *3rd Wife of Richard Allen Lawless:                        
.      +Unknown                        
........   2     child Lawless                        
........   2     child Lawless                        

I'm noticing the child rapist, Richard Ray Lawless, committed those crimes in Washington but resides in Montana...just like Richard Allen Lawless...

richard allen lawless lives in washington, his exwife died in montana. 
he is born 1936
richard ray lawless is born 1948

too old to be the same
not enough years apart to be father and son. 

Anthony Christopher Gomes is born 04/07/1966
Isn't one of the Gary D. Lawless birth date the same?

CA Sex Offender Registry, CA
Full Name:  Gary Wayne Gomes     Date of Birth:      09/01/1960
AKAs:      G Gomes
CRIMINAL OFFENSE 1
Case Number:      18699068C6997
Offense Type:    Rape
Offense Code:    261(A)(2)
Offense Description:    RAPE BY FORCE/FEAR/ETC

ignore above post

Full Name: Dick Lawless Date of Birth: 08/05/1948
AKAs: Height: 5'11"
Weight: 150 LBS
Hair Color: BROWN
Eye Color: HAZEL
Race: WHITE
Gender: Male

S CRIMINAL OFFENSE 1
Offense Date:
S Sex Related
Case Number: 928793
Offense Type: Rape
Offense Code:
Offense Description: RAPE OF CHILD 1 RAPE OF CHILD 1
Date Reported:

S CRIMINAL OFFENSE 2
Offense Date:
Case Number: 928793
Offense Type: Rape
Offense Code:
Offense Description: RAPE OF CHILD 1 INDECENT LIBERTIES
Date Reported:

S CRIMINAL OFFENSE 3
Offense Date:
Case Number: 928793
Offense Type: Rape
Offense Code:
Offense Description: INDECENT LIBERTIES RAPE OF CHILD 1
Date Reported:

O CRIMINAL OFFENSE 4
Offense Date:
Case Number: 928793
Offense Type: Traffic/Other
Offense Code:
Offense Description: INDECENT LIBERTIES INDECENT LIBERTIES
Date Reported:

Quote from: Sister on June 11, 2009, 09:22:18 PM
Sexual or Violent Offender Search Details

Offender
Name: Lawless, Richard Ray
Offender Type: Sexual
Level: Non-Designated


Photo Date: 11/26/2007

Physical Description (Updated 03/22/2007)  Race: Caucasian Sex: Male Age: 60
Height: 5'11" Weight: 150 Birth Date: 08/05/1948
Skin Tone:  Hair: Brown Eyes: Hazel
Scars, Marks, Tattoos: 

Last Known Address  Primary Address: 742 Old West Mullen Trail 
City: Elliston State: MT Zip Code: 59728
County: Powell
 
Offense Non-Montana Statute:  Washington Rape Of A Child  Counts:  1 
Sentence Date:  09/24/1986 
 
Registration Agency  Agency: Powell County Sheriff Phone: (406) 846-2711

Registrant Information Updated: 03/24/2009 09:32:28 AM
Source: Montana Sexual or Violent Offender Registry



Name:   Lawless, Richard Ray  Year of birth:  1948   
City:  Lewiston  State:  ID   

Case History
Nez Perce 
1  Cases Found. 
State of Idaho vs. Richard Ray Lawless   
No hearings scheduled 
Case:  CR-1997-0005906   Magistrate   Judge:  Court Clerk   Amount due:  $0.00  Closed 
Charges:  Violation Date Charge Citation Disposition
  02/16/1997  I49-654(2) Speed-exceed Maximum Speed Limit
Arresting Officer:  Hill, George, LPD  29644  Finding: Guilty
Disposition date: 03/03/1997
Fines/fees: $48.00

Does anyone else think it took "Lane" a long time to get through school.  I don't know about California, but back in the 20s and 30s, many graduated by only going 11 years and not 12.

1931 - Lane born in August, currently age 77, tho some reports say 67

1941 - Connie born in August

1943 - Arthur DeWayne Harris (Connie's brother) born

1950 - Lane attended Brewster High School, on debate squad in Brewster WA