Scared Monkeys Discussion Forum

Natalee Holloway => LCD Archive => Topic started by: klaasend on July 07, 2006, 11:26:41 PM



Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: klaasend on July 07, 2006, 11:26:41 PM
You all know the rules

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e82/klaasend2/InHonorofNatalee.jpg)


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: ldstlou on July 08, 2006, 12:08:24 AM
klaasend wrote:
ldstlou wrote:
ldstlou wrote:
klaasend wrote:
klaasend wrote:
ldstlou - Maybe KJ knew exactly what it was but didn't want to tell Beth?


Yes, I saw it and replied here  
thats what I thought..but not clear in that text...so was Deepaks computer confiscated?


oh wait...would it matter if it were on his cell?

If it were transmitted from Joran's cell to Deepak's cell it would remain on the cell phone unless it was sent to an email address.


got it!! another stupid question...would he have sent it to his cell via an e-mail or another way?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: klaasend on July 08, 2006, 12:10:16 AM
ldstlou wrote:

Quote
got it!! another stupid question...would he have sent it to his cell via an e-mail or another way?


According to Beth it was a cell to cell transmission, however, that is what she was told by KJ and very little else.  We don't really know.  For instance, if I took a short video on my cellphone, I could email it to as many people as I wanted.  I could also transmit it to another cell phone as many times as I wanted.  The original video is on the memory card on my cell phone, all else would be copies of the original.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on July 08, 2006, 12:11:41 AM
To CBB from last thread....

Angiex911dsptchr



Joined: 28 Apr 2006
Location: PA
 Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 12:05 am    Post subject:    

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
crazybabyborg wrote:
Hola, Monkeys! Just a 'lil tipsy here, but count me in!  


Hi CBB~!!! Better watch posting about drinking and being tipsy.. I got the title of being a "drunk ass hick bitch" elsewhere.. Hell.. you cant mention having a drink here..LOL    funny thing is.. I found out WHO posted it elsewhere too.. HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA..! Well not their SN they use BUT the one they HIDE behind~!!

Cheers to you CBB~!!  

(Please dont take this post as being rude to yah hon.. no way do I mean it towards you~!)
_________________
God Bless Natalee and her family

 
 AND to SPOOKY

Angiex911dsptchr



Joined: 28 Apr 2006
Location: PA
 Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 12:07 am    Post subject:    

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
spooky112483 wrote:
hey angie!! I have missed you [[big hug]]  


Big HUGS back at yah Chicky~!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
_________________
God Bless Natalee and her family

 
  AND  HUGS to my mom Louise./.. not long this gal got to get ot bed.. I work all freaking weeeknd.  :(


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: ldstlou on July 08, 2006, 12:13:27 AM
Quote from: "klaasend"
ldstlou wrote:

Quote
got it!! another stupid question...would he have sent it to his cell via an e-mail or another way?


According to Beth it was a cell to cell transmission, however, that is what she was told by KJ and very little else.  We don't really know.  For instance, if I took a short video on my cellphone, I could email it to as many people as I wanted.  I could also transmit it to another cell phone as many times as I wanted.  The original video is on the memory card on my cell phone, all else would be copies of the original.


ok...starting to understand!! so sorry!! So if he transmits video to Deepak that night...and Deepak out of minutes..could he still RECEIVE? and most likely..and we don't know for sure..but in your opinion..how would Deepak open it? I mean is it like when I get a text message or would I have to use the internet capabilities on the phone and view via e-mail?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: crazybabyborg on July 08, 2006, 12:14:08 AM
Hiya back, Angie and Spook! No offense taken, I've been learning to Salsa.......and it's not my fault the lessons are in a bar.

As I'm reading the conversation, a question comes to mind: would the internet archive have any of this stuff that took place between computers and cell phones? I'm also curious about the server in Aruba. Here e-mails stay on the server for a year or more, and if anything is e-mailed beyond the range of one server, it would exist on more than one server for a very long time. Here, that stuff can be retrieved by subpoena.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Tylergal on July 08, 2006, 12:15:35 AM
Quote from: "klaasend"
ldstlou wrote:

Quote
got it!! another stupid question...would he have sent it to his cell via an e-mail or another way?


According to Beth it was a cell to cell transmission, however, that is what she was told by KJ and very little else.  We don't really know.  For instance, if I took a short video on my cellphone, I could email it to as many people as I wanted.  I could also transmit it to another cell phone as many times as I wanted.  The original video is on the memory card on my cell phone, all else would be copies of the original.


That's right.  The video my DIL took of the Rose Bowl nude pregnant woman and urinating man on Santa Monica was sent to me, her mother and her brother.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: crazybabyborg on July 08, 2006, 12:16:11 AM
How do we know Deepak was out of minutes?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Sue on July 08, 2006, 12:16:56 AM
If Deepaks cell was out of minutes where was Joran calling to get a ride at 2am to 3 am or 4 am when ever he got home


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: crazybabyborg on July 08, 2006, 12:18:36 AM
Quote from: "Sue"
If Deepaks cell was out of minutes where was Joran calling to get a ride at 2am to 3 am or 4 am when ever he got home


Freddy may have provided any need for transportation?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: klaasend on July 08, 2006, 12:18:46 AM
Quote from: "ldstlou"
Quote from: "klaasend"
ldstlou wrote:

Quote
got it!! another stupid question...would he have sent it to his cell via an e-mail or another way?


According to Beth it was a cell to cell transmission, however, that is what she was told by KJ and very little else.  We don't really know.  For instance, if I took a short video on my cellphone, I could email it to as many people as I wanted.  I could also transmit it to another cell phone as many times as I wanted.  The original video is on the memory card on my cell phone, all else would be copies of the original.


ok...starting to understand!! so sorry!! So if he transmits video to Deepak that night...and Deepak out of minutes..could he still RECEIVE? and most likely..and we don't know for sure..but in your opinion..how would Deepak open it? I mean is it like when I get a text message or would I have to use the internet capabilities on the phone and view via e-mail?


To be honest, I'm not sure how it works getting a photo or video on your cellphone.  I've only sent photos to email addresses from my cell.  I'm sure someone else on the board here has received a photo on their phone.  How ever a photo is opened it would be similar to how the video would open.  To get it from a cell phone to a PC, all you have to do is send it from your phone to an email address.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Tylergal on July 08, 2006, 12:18:58 AM
Quote from: "Sue"
If Deepaks cell was out of minutes where was Joran calling to get a ride at 2am to 3 am or 4 am when ever he got home


His cell was not out of minutes.  That's their tale.  Want to see mine?  There was no reason to say that except for cover.  They interjected too much superfluous information meant to fool the public and that seemed to have worked.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: spooky112483 on July 08, 2006, 12:19:12 AM
I'm in


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: ldstlou on July 08, 2006, 12:19:47 AM
Quote from: "Tylergal"
Quote from: "klaasend"
ldstlou wrote:

Quote
got it!! another stupid question...would he have sent it to his cell via an e-mail or another way?


According to Beth it was a cell to cell transmission, however, that is what she was told by KJ and very little else.  We don't really know.  For instance, if I took a short video on my cellphone, I could email it to as many people as I wanted.  I could also transmit it to another cell phone as many times as I wanted.  The original video is on the memory card on my cell phone, all else would be copies of the original.


That's right.  The video my DIL took of the Rose Bowl nude pregnant woman and urinating man on Santa Monica was sent to me, her mother and her brother.


ok...so he opens on phone via e-mail? So..sorry stupid here..just trying to figure out if it may have been a video!! So he is transmitting to Deepak via cell to e-mail and then Deepak picks up via e-mail on his cell...would it look like a conversation then? I mean...do you know what I mean..would it appear on record as conversation between two..even though Deepak would have to access it after it was already transmitted..am I making sense?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: crazybabyborg on July 08, 2006, 12:21:37 AM
Quote from: "Tylergal"
Quote from: "Sue"
If Deepaks cell was out of minutes where was Joran calling to get a ride at 2am to 3 am or 4 am when ever he got home


His cell was not out of minutes.  That's their tale.  Want to see mine?  There was no reason to say that except for cover.  They interjected too much superfluous information meant to fool the public and that seemed to have worked.


Now that makes a tremendous amount of sense, Tyler. I'm with you. Your statement rings true.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: klaasend on July 08, 2006, 12:21:44 AM
Quote from: "ldstlou"
Quote from: "Tylergal"
Quote from: "klaasend"
ldstlou wrote:

Quote
got it!! another stupid question...would he have sent it to his cell via an e-mail or another way?


According to Beth it was a cell to cell transmission, however, that is what she was told by KJ and very little else.  We don't really know.  For instance, if I took a short video on my cellphone, I could email it to as many people as I wanted.  I could also transmit it to another cell phone as many times as I wanted.  The original video is on the memory card on my cell phone, all else would be copies of the original.


That's right.  The video my DIL took of the Rose Bowl nude pregnant woman and urinating man on Santa Monica was sent to me, her mother and her brother.


ok...so he opens on phone via e-mail? So..sorry stupid here..just trying to figure out if it may have been a video!! So he is transmitting to Deepak via cell to e-mail and then Deepak picks up via e-mail on his cell...would it look like a conversation then? I mean...do you know what I mean..would it appear on record as conversation between two..even though Deepak would have to access it after it was already transmitted..am I making sense?


Don't place too much importance on KJ calling it a conversation.  I don't believe she is giving Beth accurate information.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Tylergal on July 08, 2006, 12:22:37 AM
Quote from: "ldstlou"
Quote from: "Tylergal"
Quote from: "klaasend"
ldstlou wrote:

Quote
got it!! another stupid question...would he have sent it to his cell via an e-mail or another way?


According to Beth it was a cell to cell transmission, however, that is what she was told by KJ and very little else.  We don't really know.  For instance, if I took a short video on my cellphone, I could email it to as many people as I wanted.  I could also transmit it to another cell phone as many times as I wanted.  The original video is on the memory card on my cell phone, all else would be copies of the original.


That's right.  The video my DIL took of the Rose Bowl nude pregnant woman and urinating man on Santa Monica was sent to me, her mother and her brother.


ok...so he opens on phone via e-mail? So..sorry stupid here..just trying to figure out if it may have been a video!! So he is transmitting to Deepak via cell to e-mail and then Deepak picks up via e-mail on his cell...would it look like a conversation then? I mean...do you know what I mean..would it appear on record as conversation between two..even though Deepak would have to access it after it was already transmitted..am I making sense?


I am sorry but I am not following you.  Have you ever had anyone transmit a picture to your cell phone?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: ldstlou on July 08, 2006, 12:23:47 AM
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "ldstlou"
Quote from: "Tylergal"
Quote from: "klaasend"
ldstlou wrote:

Quote
got it!! another stupid question...would he have sent it to his cell via an e-mail or another way?


According to Beth it was a cell to cell transmission, however, that is what she was told by KJ and very little else.  We don't really know.  For instance, if I took a short video on my cellphone, I could email it to as many people as I wanted.  I could also transmit it to another cell phone as many times as I wanted.  The original video is on the memory card on my cell phone, all else would be copies of the original.


That's right.  The video my DIL took of the Rose Bowl nude pregnant woman and urinating man on Santa Monica was sent to me, her mother and her brother.


ok...so he opens on phone via e-mail? So..sorry stupid here..just trying to figure out if it may have been a video!! So he is transmitting to Deepak via cell to e-mail and then Deepak picks up via e-mail on his cell...would it look like a conversation then? I mean...do you know what I mean..would it appear on record as conversation between two..even though Deepak would have to access it after it was already transmitted..am I making sense?


Don't place too much importance on KJ calling it a conversation.  I don't believe she is giving Beth accurate information.


wow Klaas...very plausible it was a video being transmitted!! 8 1/2 minutes is a very long conversation...especially for guys.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: crazybabyborg on July 08, 2006, 12:23:49 AM
Tyler; it's like Joran's shoes, and the "natalee fell and hit her head" story. There's purpose in the added details that really mean it's something to take a hard look at.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Tylergal on July 08, 2006, 12:25:20 AM
Quote from: "crazybabyborg"
Tyler; it's like Joran's shoes, and the "natalee fell and hit her head" story. There's purpose in the added details that really mean it's something to take a hard look at.


Exactly and I am glad you brought that up about "Fell and hit her head."  That came up today and some do not believe that was ever said.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: crazybabyborg on July 08, 2006, 12:26:13 AM
My son and I both have a bluetooth...whatever that is. He can transmit pictures to my cell phone. Listen guys, remember when Aruba wasn't allowing cameras? We saw interviews through cell phones all the time, right?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: ldstlou on July 08, 2006, 12:27:07 AM
Quote from: "Tylergal"
Quote from: "ldstlou"
Quote from: "Tylergal"
Quote from: "klaasend"
ldstlou wrote:

Quote
got it!! another stupid question...would he have sent it to his cell via an e-mail or another way?


According to Beth it was a cell to cell transmission, however, that is what she was told by KJ and very little else.  We don't really know.  For instance, if I took a short video on my cellphone, I could email it to as many people as I wanted.  I could also transmit it to another cell phone as many times as I wanted.  The original video is on the memory card on my cell phone, all else would be copies of the original.


That's right.  The video my DIL took of the Rose Bowl nude pregnant woman and urinating man on Santa Monica was sent to me, her mother and her brother.


ok...so he opens on phone via e-mail? So..sorry stupid here..just trying to figure out if it may have been a video!! So he is transmitting to Deepak via cell to e-mail and then Deepak picks up via e-mail on his cell...would it look like a conversation then? I mean...do you know what I mean..would it appear on record as conversation between two..even though Deepak would have to access it after it was already transmitted..am I making sense?


I am sorry but I am not following you.  Have you ever had anyone transmit a picture to your cell phone?


HELLOOOO!!! did you see my post about not even being able to turn the thing on!!! haha  just trying to understand...on records..say a phone bill...would it appear as though Joran was calling that number and talking for 8 1/2 minutes and appear also on Deepak's phone bill as reciving a call for 8 1/2 minutes? In other words...if someone sends me a text..don't think I get charges for a message until I open it?!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: klaasend on July 08, 2006, 12:27:26 AM
Bath time, be back in a little bit

Shall I take my cell phone with me?? lolololol  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Tylergal on July 08, 2006, 12:27:39 AM
Quote from: "crazybabyborg"
My son and I both have a bluetooth...whatever that is. He can transmit pictures to my cell phone. Listen guys, remember when Aruba wasn't allowing cameras? We saw interviews through cell phones all the time, right?


Exactly.  That is what a video from/to a cell phone looks like.  A distorted picture somewhat, but if you download it to your computer it is better.

Incidentally, you can go to tinpic and do tinyvid.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: crazybabyborg on July 08, 2006, 12:27:57 AM
Quote from: "Tylergal"
Quote from: "crazybabyborg"
Tyler; it's like Joran's shoes, and the "natalee fell and hit her head" story. There's purpose in the added details that really mean it's something to take a hard look at.


Exactly and I am glad you brought that up about "Fell and hit her head."  That came up today and some do not believe that was ever said.


 :?:  :?:  :?:  :?:
Well, I don't know how to say this, but....................
They are wrong. It was said by Joran and Deepak.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: klaasend on July 08, 2006, 12:28:18 AM
Quote from: "crazybabyborg"
My son and I both have a bluetooth...whatever that is. He can transmit pictures to my cell phone. Listen guys, remember when Aruba wasn't allowing cameras? We saw interviews through cell phones all the time, right?


Yep


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: ldstlou on July 08, 2006, 12:28:20 AM
Quote from: "klaasend"
Bath time, be back in a little bit

Shall I take my cell phone with me?? lolololol  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

too funny!!!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: spooky112483 on July 08, 2006, 12:28:54 AM
Quote from: "Tylergal"
Quote from: "Sue"
If Deepaks cell was out of minutes where was Joran calling to get a ride at 2am to 3 am or 4 am when ever he got home


His cell was not out of minutes.  That's their tale.  Want to see mine?  There was no reason to say that except for cover.  They interjected too much superfluous information meant to fool the public and that seemed to have worked.


funny how they say they loose each other shortly after getting their drinks and how they dont find each other at closing time but they instinctively know to meet up at the car. deepak says he just goes back to the car to wait on them. he also says his cell is out of min. so what if joran and satish decided they wanted to walk to another bar? deepak would just be cooling his heels waiting in the car on them. but nooooo they all three KNEW to head straight to the car after C & C closed without calling each other (no min. remember) or finding each other in thebar. hmmmmm that always stuck out to me


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Tylergal on July 08, 2006, 12:30:50 AM
Quote from: "spooky112483"
Quote from: "Tylergal"
Quote from: "Sue"
If Deepaks cell was out of minutes where was Joran calling to get a ride at 2am to 3 am or 4 am when ever he got home


His cell was not out of minutes.  That's their tale.  Want to see mine?  There was no reason to say that except for cover.  They interjected too much superfluous information meant to fool the public and that seemed to have worked.


funny how they say they loose each other shortly after getting their drinks and how they dont find each other at closing time but they instinctively know to meet up at the car. deepak says he just goes back to the car to wait on them. he also says his cell is out of min. so what if joran and satish decided they wanted to walk to another bar? deepak would just be cooling his heels waiting in the car on them. but nooooo they all three KNEW to head straight to the car after C & C closed without calling each other (no min. remember) or finding each other in thebar. hmmmmm that always stuck out to me


I would almost guarantee you they never ran out of minutes.  They lived and will probably when do fall, will fall by technology.  It is their lifeblood and they might be out of clean drawers or clean shirts, but they will not be out of cell minutes.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: SunFreak2 on July 08, 2006, 12:30:57 AM
Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 11:55 pm    Post subject:    

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[Spookey=quote]
well i was waiting on the thread change but oh well
hello everyone
my thoughts? Freddy would know how valuable a video of a rape/death would be.
Now i do NOT think that was the intention that night but after it happened, Freddy knew what he had on his hands. Freddy is no pro by any means but he does have connections.
And just like if Natalee had been sold into sex slavery she would actually be even more valuable now so would the video of her rape/death be even more valuable and sought after by the monsters of this world.[/quote]

I agree Spookey.  Her video if it is just porn is valuable by it's self.It would find it's way to a video connoisour's collection.  If it ends in a snuff scene, the price of that video skyrockets in value and price.  There are actually people who would pay $$$$$ for a snuff film, especially from such a high profile disappearance.  These people would have to be very perverted imo.
_________________
"They call Alabama the Crimson Tide"
Arubagate2005


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on July 08, 2006, 12:31:17 AM
Quote from: "Tylergal"
Quote from: "crazybabyborg"
Tyler; it's like Joran's shoes, and the "natalee fell and hit her head" story. There's purpose in the added details that really mean it's something to take a hard look at.


Exactly and I am glad you brought that up about "Fell and hit her head."  That came up today and some do not believe that was ever said.


 I remember that statement.. and posting with others as well on the subject.   Some truth to lies.. IMO.  I felt if she was ever found and deceased.. :(   She would have some kind of fracture to her skull. (and not by falling either)...


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: ldstlou on July 08, 2006, 12:31:29 AM
Quote from: "Tylergal"
Quote from: "crazybabyborg"
My son and I both have a bluetooth...whatever that is. He can transmit pictures to my cell phone. Listen guys, remember when Aruba wasn't allowing cameras? We saw interviews through cell phones all the time, right?


Exactly.  That is what a video from/to a cell phone looks like.  A distorted picture somewhat, but if you download it to your computer it is better.

Incidentally, you can go to tinpic and do tinyvid.


ok...I think I have it..so Deepak would have to answer phone to start receiving video..am I correct?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Tylergal on July 08, 2006, 12:32:31 AM
Quote from: "crazybabyborg"
Quote from: "Tylergal"
Quote from: "crazybabyborg"
Tyler; it's like Joran's shoes, and the "natalee fell and hit her head" story. There's purpose in the added details that really mean it's something to take a hard look at.


Exactly and I am glad you brought that up about "Fell and hit her head."  That came up today and some do not believe that was ever said.


 :?:  :?:  :?:  :?:
Well, I don't know how to say this, but....................
They are wrong. It was said by Joran and Deepak.


I wish you had been here earlier on those two conversations.  We had some doubtin' Thomases on both those subjects this afternoon.  Shrugged shoulders and went out to eat, dead-headed some roses and returned.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Tylergal on July 08, 2006, 12:33:03 AM
Quote from: "ldstlou"
Quote from: "Tylergal"
Quote from: "crazybabyborg"
My son and I both have a bluetooth...whatever that is. He can transmit pictures to my cell phone. Listen guys, remember when Aruba wasn't allowing cameras? We saw interviews through cell phones all the time, right?


Exactly.  That is what a video from/to a cell phone looks like.  A distorted picture somewhat, but if you download it to your computer it is better.

Incidentally, you can go to tinpic and do tinyvid.


ok...I think I have it..so Deepak would have to answer phone to start receiving video..am I correct?


BINGO!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on July 08, 2006, 12:33:06 AM
Quote from: "klaasend"
Bath time, be back in a little bit

Shall I take my cell phone with me?? lolololol  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:


OMG..LMAO     whatever turns yah on Klaas  LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!
Is it waterproof???  :)


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: ldstlou on July 08, 2006, 12:34:37 AM
well..time to hit the sack guys...back to painting tomorrow!! Will probably have nightmares now thinking of them sharing video...just blows me away how rotten these guys are!!
night all!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: spooky112483 on July 08, 2006, 12:35:10 AM
Quote from: "klaasend"
Bath time, be back in a little bit

Shall I take my cell phone with me?? lolololol  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:


insert a Thirdstrike comment here :lol:  :lol:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: ldstlou on July 08, 2006, 12:36:17 AM
Quote from: "spooky112483"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Bath time, be back in a little bit

Shall I take my cell phone with me?? lolololol  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:


insert a Thirdstrike comment here :lol:  :lol:


no kidding!!! he would have been all over that AND giving out his cell phone # to take a peek!! haha


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on July 08, 2006, 12:36:17 AM
Quote from: "ldstlou"
well..time to hit the sack guys...back to painting tomorrow!! Will probably have nightmares now thinking of them sharing video...just blows me away how rotten these guys are!!
night all!


  Have a good nights  rest Lisa~! :)


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: ldstlou on July 08, 2006, 12:36:51 AM
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
Quote from: "ldstlou"
well..time to hit the sack guys...back to painting tomorrow!! Will probably have nightmares now thinking of them sharing video...just blows me away how rotten these guys are!!
night all!


  Have a good nights  rest Lisa~! :)


Thanks Sweetie..glad I ended on a chuckle!!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: spooky112483 on July 08, 2006, 12:37:11 AM
Quote from: "Tylergal"
Quote from: "spooky112483"
Quote from: "Tylergal"
Quote from: "Sue"
If Deepaks cell was out of minutes where was Joran calling to get a ride at 2am to 3 am or 4 am when ever he got home


His cell was not out of minutes.  That's their tale.  Want to see mine?  There was no reason to say that except for cover.  They interjected too much superfluous information meant to fool the public and that seemed to have worked.


funny how they say they loose each other shortly after getting their drinks and how they dont find each other at closing time but they instinctively know to meet up at the car. deepak says he just goes back to the car to wait on them. he also says his cell is out of min. so what if joran and satish decided they wanted to walk to another bar? deepak would just be cooling his heels waiting in the car on them. but nooooo they all three KNEW to head straight to the car after C & C closed without calling each other (no min. remember) or finding each other in thebar. hmmmmm that always stuck out to me


I would almost guarantee you they never ran out of minutes.  They lived and will probably when do fall, will fall by technology.  It is their lifeblood and they might be out of clean drawers or clean shirts, but they will not be out of cell minutes.


i should have said that i too believe that was a lie  about his minutes and i do believe it has been contradicted by deepaks other statements


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on July 08, 2006, 12:37:37 AM
Quote from: "spooky112483"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Bath time, be back in a little bit

Shall I take my cell phone with me?? lolololol  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:


insert a Thirdstrike comment here :lol:  :lol:


  LOL Spooky... :)


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on July 08, 2006, 12:42:43 AM
Got quiet..


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: LouiseVargas on July 08, 2006, 12:43:27 AM
Hello Beautiful Monkeys!
I didn't read ALL the back pages this time, I just read the past five pages of the previous thread and waited for the thread to change over.

I'd like to comment on snuff films which were discussed in the last thread.  

A long time ago I mentioned here that the perps had most likely made a snuff film of Natalie's death. Everyone said "Bah humbug. The only real snuff films are those made in Iraq when they killed hostages on film. Snuff films are illegal. It has never been proven that a snuff film (that has nothing to do with Iraq) ever existed."

Of course. Snuff films are not out there for the public to see. The snuff film makers belong to a very secret underground organization / network because anyone making such a film would be charged with murder if apprehended. Just because we've never seen snuff films does not mean they don't exist. Such films cost a fortune because of the danger involved in filming them and distributing them. And I don't think anyone off the street could just go somewhere and hook up with someone and buy a snuff film.

I firmly believe the rape of Natalee was filmed and if she accidentally died or was killed on purpose, the camera man filmed it and all of a sudden realized they accidentally had a snuff film on their hands. But with this realization came the knowledge of how much money it was worth and how their photography status would be elevated.

I don't know if the Aruban authorities would know about it. Perhaps they only know that she died at the hands of the suspects and nothing further.

Just my humble opinion.

Louise


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: SunFreak2 on July 08, 2006, 12:46:49 AM
Quote from: "ldstlou"
Quote from: "Tylergal"
Quote from: "klaasend"
ldstlou wrote:

Quote
got it!! another stupid question...would he have sent it to his cell via an e-mail or another way?


According to Beth it was a cell to cell transmission, however, that is what she was told by KJ and very little else.  We don't really know.  For instance, if I took a short video on my cellphone, I could email it to as many people as I wanted.  I could also transmit it to another cell phone as many times as I wanted.  The original video is on the memory card on my cell phone, all else would be copies of the original.


That's right.  The video my DIL took of the Rose Bowl nude pregnant woman and urinating man on Santa Monica was sent to me, her mother and her brother.


ok...so he opens on phone via e-mail? So..sorry stupid here..just trying to figure out if it may have been a video!! So he is transmitting to Deepak via cell to e-mail and then Deepak picks up via e-mail on his cell...would it look like a conversation then? I mean...do you know what I mean..would it appear on record as conversation between two..even though Deepak would have to access it after it was already transmitted..am I making sense?


Are you asking about a live transmission in the sense that depite the few seconde delay, the video feed is live as is the reception.?  Or are you asking if the transmission would appear on records as a phone call  or a transmission like a photo, video,  or text message?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on July 08, 2006, 12:47:21 AM
HI Mom Louise!!
  I just cant get over what a snuff film was/is. I had to have someone explain it to me before.. and I was.. grossed out.    I never heard of it ever until  this case.  
Hugs to you Louise~Mom..  love yah chicky poo!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: klaasend on July 08, 2006, 12:48:10 AM
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
Got quiet..

Back!  I suppose you want me to entertain you with photos now..ha ha ha  :lol:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: crazybabyborg on July 08, 2006, 12:49:14 AM
Do we know what entity acts as the server for Aruba? Honest, I know for a fact that here, anyway, with a subpoena, the server will cough up the exact transmission for any IP address, complete with time, date and duration. Would the internet server have been involved in transmission of a video? I would think that ALL records would have been captured for Joran's and Deepak's IP address for several days surrounding Nat's disappearance.

Wasn't there mention that Paulus had instructed them to e-mail each other, so that a record COULD be established?

If something of interest existed in a memory card of a cell phone, what do you want to bet that the cell phone "swims with the fishes" at this point?

Also, an accurate record would definately exist as to when Deepak's phone ran out of minutes and when he purchased more minutes.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on July 08, 2006, 12:49:56 AM
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
Got quiet..

Back!  I suppose you want me to entertain you with photos now..ha ha ha  :lol:


  ROFLMAO.. Ummmmmmmmm...  Uhhhhhhhhhh...


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: dkpen on July 08, 2006, 12:50:26 AM
National Enquirer Story, there are a few things in it that I think probably
aren't true, but sometimes their reporters get some good info due to all the money they pay for scoops. Take from it as you will....


HOW NATALEE WAS KILLED

By DON GENTILE

Dutch teenager Joran van der Sloot confessed to his father that he dumped
Natalee Holloway's body in shark-infested waters after she accidentally hit
her head and drowned in a drug-induced stupor on an Aruban beach.

This stunning new theory from inside the police investigation of the missing
teen emerged as her grief-stricken relatives came to terms with the fact
that Natalee was not going to be found alive - or possibly not found at all
- because the man-eating sharks may have left nothing behind.

"Her family has come to believe that she's not with us anymore. That's just
realistic," said Natalee's step-uncle Steve Parten, a Florida minister.

Natalee, from Birmingham, Ala., was last seen around 1 am on May 30 leaving
Carlos 'n Charlies, a local nightclub, with 17-year-old Joran and his
buddies Satish Kalpoe, 18, and his brother Deepak, 21. It was the last night
of Natalee's high school graduation trip with her classmates.

For the first time, police are investigating information from several
sources that a panic-stricken Joran confessed to his father Paulus that
Natalee died accidentally and that he fed her body to the sharks.

Two of those sources are Jim Dooley, a South Carolina job recruiter for the
health care industry, and his wife, Bella.

In an exclusive interview, the Dooleys said they contacted the FBI after
learning of Joran's confession to his dad during a shopping trip to a
clothing store in Charlotte, N.C. The date was June 11, just a few days
after Aruba police had arrested Joran and the Kalpoe brothers as "persons of
interest" in the case.

Dooley said the clerk at the clothing store told him that she and her
husband are very good friends with Joran's dad, Paulus van der Sloot, and
his wife, Anita. Her own son had attended school with Joran on the island
and was a close pal.

The clerk told Dooley: "Joran told his father that he and Natalee had all
been drinking and taking drugs at the nightclub. The father specifically
mentioned they took Ecstasy. Joran told his father that when they left the
club, they went to a beach on the island. Natalee was very ill and threw up
several times.

"Then she fell and hit her head on something. Joran checked her and realized
she was dead.

"Joran and others discussed an appropriate place to dump Natalee's body, a
specific place where someone would disappear forever... a spot on the island
where the waters are shark-infested."

Arubans know the shark-feeding spot very well and directed a National
Enquirer reporter to its location on the rugged north coast of the island,
where the ocean pounds the rocks and few people live.

The water there is deep and murky and sits beneath a high cliff, far away
from the beautiful beaches and posh hotel casinos on the island's southern
side.

A meatpacking plant once occupied the site. Workers there would discard meat
cuttings into the ocean. The sharks would quickly gather and go into a
feeding frenzy. To this day, dead animals are dumped into the waters at the
shark site for the sake of tourism.

The clerk continued: "Paulus van der Sloot is very worried. This was an
accidental death but his son is likely to end up going to jail because it
looks like he was covering up a murder.

"But Paulus admitted telling his son that if a body wasn't found, there
could be a chance he'd get out of jail."

According to another source close to the case, Robert Werner, headmaster of
the International School of Aruba, where Joran attended classes, also said
that Paulus van der Sloot admitted to him his son confessed that Natalee
died accidentally in a fall on a beach.

The source revealed: "Paulus told the headmaster that Joran and Natalee had
been taking drugs and decided to go for a swim. As they played in and around
the water, Natalee fell, hit her head on a rock and drowned. In a drug and
alcohol-induced panic, Joran felt he had no other choice but to dispose of
Natalee's body in the sea."

Paulus van der Sloot was arrested himself on June 23, a week after the
Dooleys reported their conversation with the clerk to the FBI. He was later
released but he could be rearrested, said Aruban authorities. He did admit
talking to his son about Natalee's disappearance, saying he advised him in
general terms that without a body there may be no way to prove a crime was
committed.

The Kalpoe brothers were also released. But they, too, could be rearrested,
Aruban authorities said. At the time of going to press, Joran remained
behind bars. His family maintains his innocence.

Published on: 07/15/2005

http://www.nationalenquirer.com/crime/63315


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: klaasend on July 08, 2006, 12:50:30 AM
Quote from: "crazybabyborg"
Do we know what entity acts as the server for Aruba? Honest, I know for a fact that here, anyway, with a subpoena, the server will cough up the exact transmission for any IP address, complete with time, date and duration. Would the internet server have been involved in transmission of a video? I would think that ALL records would have been captured for Joran's and Deepak's IP address for several days surrounding Nat's disappearance.

Wasn't there mention that Paulus had instructed them to e-mail each other, so that a record COULD be established?

If something of interest existed in a memory card of a cell phone, what do you want to bet that the cell phone "swims with the fishes" at this point?

Also, an accurate record would definately exist as to when Deepak's phone ran out of minutes and when he purchased more minutes.


Not sure but my guess would be setar.net


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: spooky112483 on July 08, 2006, 12:51:27 AM
what is the name of the series of films that show people getting killed? i never watched them but it's stuff like people being hit by trains, people committing suicide, falling of buildings or cliffs and stuff like that. those films made millions. ALL of my friends knew about them and had seen them. "Faces of Death" maybe?? anyway, i know they are not snuff films but imo it aint a very far leap there. so the market IS there. it is just underground. no doubt in my mind. I mean look at those "Saw" movies and "Hostle" they are nothing but sex tourture and death HELLO!!!!!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: crazybabyborg on July 08, 2006, 12:51:57 AM
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
HI Mom Louise!!
  I just cant get over what a snuff film was/is. I had to have someone explain it to me before.. and I was.. grossed out.    I never heard of it ever until  this case.  
Hugs to you Louise~Mom..  love yah chicky poo!


There was a movie about a snuff killing called "8mm". Starred Nicolas Cage, I think. It was the first time that I had ever heard of it.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: dkpen on July 08, 2006, 12:52:34 AM
for what it is worth, here are emails that deepak sent to his friend prior
to being arrested: They were sent a week after she disappeared, so obviously
plenty of time to be coached by the dad to leave a (false) 'paper trail.'


dated 6/5/2005


How are you i hope you and your family is fine.(NAME DELETED) is better i
tell you the truth , before it will be a shock for you later, but i think it
will be a shock for you right now.
The missing girl natalee hollaway,I spoke to her , sunday she left with me ,
my brother and a friend from carlos n' charlies , it was my car like the
news said she got in to, I am one of the persons of intrest , i am one the
the students they've questioned and released as they claimed in the news .
Let see where to start i don't even know where to begin these last days
where so crazy for me i'm very tired haven't slept good in days : The story
starts sunday night when a friend of mine was playing poker at a local
casino (in the holiday inn) after he won the poker at the fourth place he
decided to get up and play some blackjack so he went to the blackjack table
and there was natalee (they were a lil drunk ) so my friend started playing
blackjack and he was winning quite good , so then natalee approached him and
introduced herself and said to him'' your a lucky guy , can you help me win
some of my money back i lost $ 360 , of my fathers money'' so my friend said
ok , why not . so he started playing and he won 100 $ for her back and he
said hey thats the best i can do for you because i doubt it i can win more
money for you so its better i quit so she said ok but at least let me buy
you a drink so they went to the bar (in the casino ). so they took a drink
and started talking etc. about school, the vacation etc.etc.afterwards my
friend had to go and she said that ''today is my last day i will be in
carlos n' charlies will you be there'' and my friend said well i have school
tomorrow i don't think so . well she begged him and he still said yes i'll
be there.So that was in the casino i was not present , i was at work so my
friend called me and said hey i met some girls in the casino and her friends
and they want us to meet them in carlos tonight do you have to work tomorrow
morning i said no , so he said pick me up later then i said ok. so i got off
my shift at 10 pm and went home took a bath had to fix something and then me
and my younger brother went to pick up my friend was around 12.10 am so i
came to his home and was talked for like 15 min and then left to go to
carlos (we all went out without or parents knew) so we arrived like 12.30 am
in carlos (carlos is closing 1 pm ) and headed straight for the bar and
bought 3 drinks my friend paid for them, so besides the bar there is a stage
and people were dancing and there was natalee dancing too (thats the first
time i saw her )and she was calling my friend to get on the stage and dance
with her my friend laughed and refused so after the song was finished she
came up to my friend and asked why he won't dance with her , i only heared
that part because i was talking to someone else so i don't know what he
responded(by then natalee was VERY drunk)so as i said i was talking to
someone when i turned i had lost my brother , natalee and my friend. well
they were announced that they were closing soon so i thought well maybe
they' re waiting for me by the car its better i go there so i went to my car
and nobody was there so i started playing music and was waiting on my
brother and my friend.i waited for like 10 min and then i saw my brother
stepping in the car and my friend who was with natalee. so i was surprised
but anyways i started the engine and my brother was besides me and my friend
and natalee were in the backseet so i started cruising in the area and asked
my friend whats going on so natalee responded to me ''hey its no prob let us
just drive around and have fun its my last night , she said you can drop me
off later at holiday inn anyways right'' i said sure why not so as i was
drove out of the carlos road and got on the mainroad there were natalees
friends and she , pushed het head out of the window and screamed something i
can't recall.so i was driving very slow to make a left to get in the next
road and then one of natalees friend screamed for her to get out of the car
, and she refused so then i stopped my car and i said natalee if your
friends want you to go with them its better you go listen to them and go
with them , she said no i will stay with you guys i will get a lift from you
anways later, so she said bye to her friends and i drove away, so then we
were just talking etc, in the car and then she said she wanted to see sharks
,it was by the lighthouse she saw them before that can we go , my friend
said ok ,deepak lets go. so on my my to the lighthouse there was music
playing and noone talking for a while when i looked in the backmirror my
friend and natalee were kissing and touching (his hands etc was in her
blouse but nothing nude or against natalees will ) so my brother siad just
leave them for a while untill we get to the lighthouse, when i arrived at
the lighthouse i said well here is the lighthouse they did not pay attention
to me , so my brother said lets return (i did not stop anywhere not for a
min only trafficlights) so after like 10 min my friend is telling me that
natalee fell asleep i said you kidding just wake her up and tell ask her if
its holiday inn for sure she is staying so my friend woke her up and
confirmed with natalee she was staying at the holiday inn, so i drove to the
lobby driveway of holiday inn and then we woke her up, she got out of the
car and fell on the floor my friend said damn she fell and then rushed out
of the same door natalee came out and picked her up immediately, after she
stood up she pushed my friend and said leave me alone or something like that
i can't recall , my friend offered to help het to her room she said no. she
he stepped in the car and while i was driving away i saw natalee walking
towards the lobby and a gentleman with a walkie talkie and black clothes
approached her and i think they were talking and i had never seen natalee
again sinds.(holiday inn has no cameras in the driveway or lobby) it was
around 2.15 am .monday i came to work normally 4- 11 pm after work i called
my friend i said whats up he said ok i'm at the raddison casino meet me
there , i said ok so i went there we played poker , we had some drinks and
chat and then we had enough and decided that this casino was booring lets go
to whyndham hotel casino . so i drove to whyndham and as i was parking my
friends dad called him and said the police is at his home with some family
members its about the girl you guys went out with yesterday , so my friend
said wait there i be there, so we rushed at my friends home and there was
the police and nataless family and it was a nightmare sinds then. the police
asked us if we knew this girl showed us a picture we said yes thats her ,
they said she was missing and eyewitness say she was the last seen with you
guys . so they asked a few more questions and we said we don't understand we
left her at holiday inn lobby drive way how could she dissapear and then
natalees stepfather jumped and said ''yes thats because after she went with
you assholes she lost'' and then my friends father jumped and said thats
enough you can't talk to the kids like that this is not the us your out of
you juristiction this is not the way i want you people out of my yard i know
the law (my friends father is e judge) so afterwards another family member
of natalee suggested to the police if we can id the security gard we said
ok. we went there there was no suck security working there as we discribed.
so then we were just standing in the lobby there were questions etc. asked
by other members , and then me and my friend walked to the car natalees mom
was sitting and we said mam you have to believe us we did not do anything
with you daughter, she was crying and said i don't believe you 2 , i promise
you i will make you life a living hell because of this . anwyas we said we
were sorry again ans that we will help in any way possible.i went home 7 pm
tuesday, i was then called 2 pm by the police for questioning i went gave a
statement they said i was a witness no suspect the same went for my brother
and my friend they were questionded and had to sign their statement also ,
the checked my car and i was clear to go , wednesday i was called again to
show them how i drove the route that day ( i could refuse was my right i
still decided to go , as did my brother and friend ) the drove us one by one
and then we were free to go again.thursday morning my friend called me (he
goes to aruba international school and his mother is a teacher there and he
is a straight A student ) in panic and said there a re family members here
at school and they are sharing flyers and the flyers said : GIRL KIDNAPPED
ASK JORAN VANDER SLOOT (thats my friends name ) the principle asked them to
leave and they did .so thats my part of the story yesterday and today it was
quiet no treathen phoncalls what we got before and i won't mention the
crazythings the newspapers etc. writes about us its to much to mention. at
home my mom is losing it she is cryimg constantly , my dad bloodpressure got
high also his hands are red , my friends home is a disaster also ,his mom is
crying constantly also his dad is pretty cool he calmes us down and talks to
us also not to worry , my brother is preety cool but on his face you see he
is worried , my friend is pretty worried also. i'm pretty worried also , we
have 2 lawyers one for my friend and one for me in case we get arrested and
charched with something his dad can't defend hin he is a judge and he is too
emotional attached .my friend has his graduation this thursday he has to go
to the states in july he has a full scholarship. i had to go to vacation
also end of this month.many politicians find we should be locked up
rightnow.We heard a lot of false alarms that she was dead , she was seen
with 2 guys , her hair is cut and is red now ,she was in a crackhouse etc,
we were arrested and , my car is by the police we confessed to murder and
rape, she went in a restaurant to buy food but none of those were true.So
(name deleted) that was my part of the story what i said here is the same in
my statement,people are saying they are bad guys lock them up , the family
is going thru a lot righnow , but what they don't know how the other
families feel and how they also have a reputation and carreers etc. because
when this all is over they will still be talks that were the 3 guys that had
something to do with the kidnap of natalee its a small island.they don't
understand the pressure we are having also, if this girl turns up dead we
have a problem we were the last seen with her . I lost a lot of friends who
think we had to do something with this, many of my friends supported us also
brought food etc. for us at home and know we are innocent, we are innocent
also we promise i would NEVER hurt anyone in anyway, i would do every
everything to help find her thats what we told eveyone also , i would take a
bullet to save her and bring her back to her family if i had to so would my
friend also.i would never never hurt anyone i'm a very happy and social
person who likes to make friends with people and not hurting them


So (NAME DELETED) i will say goodbye now hope you believe me and i pray to
god that they find natalee soon and find her well so that this nightmare
ends for all of us and they we prove we had nothing to do with this, i hope
you pray for all of us say hi to everyone there hope to hear from you soon
and may god bless.........

bye bye

Deepak.



Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2005 15:26:12 +0000

Thank you for your wonderfull email you send me I really appreciate it.
Things are going better with me now , as you you know there has been 2
arrests i don't know if it comes because the information we gave or just
another tip.They were 2 security guards for a hotel nearby the holiday inn
where natalee was staying , but we don't have any further information . I
would be willing to try making an Id by the police for the 2 suspects i only
saw one of them in the news.My parents are doing better now , my friends
parents are doing well as well. Although we are almost of the hook we still
don't walk much on the streets a lot of fingers are being pointed etc. But
the press Is like trying to locate us or something i don't know this morning
my friend got a letter for nbc if we were willing to give an intervieuw for
a very good price we did not respond to them yet , we don't know if we will
give interview as yet. The local press however we won't give any interview
they sad a lot of bad things about us they should be ashamed of
theirselves.But for now its just from home to work for me , and in the
afternoons i go by my friends house we order pizza etc. and watch the news
whats going.
Anyways i have to go now , if i have any ipdates i will let you know asap.
the press is all over it so i don't think you will be missing any part of it
.
As for for natalees parents we did not hear or see them personally yet , the
police chief askes us if we would be willing to talk to them if they wanted
to talk to us . We accepted that as long they would not talk aggressive to
us as they did before.

Take care , Say hi to the others and I will mail you again


bye bye

Deepak.



Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2005 23:33:21 +0000

How is everything there. Well they did not say anything yet about the bloody
T -shirt. (she asked about the bloody mattress report)
But we are fine, everything goed normal. The only problem was that yesterday
there were like 30 reporters at my friends gate. They thought we fled the
country , what is ridiculous why would we leave,they were there for like 45
min but my friend stayed in his room did not come out the parents were
talking to them they wanted to know my adress thank god they don't know it .
As for the guards i don't know anything yet about them did said they would
decide today what they would do with them if they would charge them or
something did not understand that part, and yes its in my statement that i
am willing to try id the guard. We told the police about the guard so i
think that helped the police a lot . But for now she is just vanished i
don't understand how she could vanish like this .I never saw this before in
my life , this same girl was sitting in my car spoke to me and now she is
just lost.But anyways i'm going now , if i have any further information i
will let you know, i was planning to go to vacation 30 th of june but if
this is not solved i can kiss that vacation goodbye. Lets hope she will be
found soon and found well


Take care :

Deepak



Mickey john claims Kalpoe did not know who he was and told him the boys had
made up the HI story & they really dropped off Joran & Nat at the Mariott
Beach

3:00 am that night, per Kalpoe, he got a text msg from Joran saying they
needed to talk, Joran never called. Mickey says Deepak "was very upset,
saying he should have never left the girl alone w/ the Dutch boy"


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Tylergal on July 08, 2006, 12:55:11 AM
Quote from: "ldstlou"
Quote from: "Tylergal"
Quote from: "ldstlou"
Quote from: "Tylergal"
Quote from: "klaasend"
ldstlou wrote:

Quote
got it!! another stupid question...would he have sent it to his cell via an e-mail or another way?


According to Beth it was a cell to cell transmission, however, that is what she was told by KJ and very little else.  We don't really know.  For instance, if I took a short video on my cellphone, I could email it to as many people as I wanted.  I could also transmit it to another cell phone as many times as I wanted.  The original video is on the memory card on my cell phone, all else would be copies of the original.


That's right.  The video my DIL took of the Rose Bowl nude pregnant woman and urinating man on Santa Monica was sent to me, her mother and her brother.


ok...so he opens on phone via e-mail? So..sorry stupid here..just trying to figure out if it may have been a video!! So he is transmitting to Deepak via cell to e-mail and then Deepak picks up via e-mail on his cell...would it look like a conversation then? I mean...do you know what I mean..would it appear on record as conversation between two..even though Deepak would have to access it after it was already transmitted..am I making sense?


I am sorry but I am not following you.  Have you ever had anyone transmit a picture to your cell phone?


HELLOOOO!!! did you see my post about not even being able to turn the thing on!!! haha  just trying to understand...on records..say a phone bill...would it appear as though Joran was calling that number and talking for 8 1/2 minutes and appear also on Deepak's phone bill as reciving a call for 8 1/2 minutes? In other words...if someone sends me a text..don't think I get charges for a message until I open it?!


Cell phone bills have changed here recently, not sure how those services are set up on Maniacal Island.  Now if I answer a call, I am billed.  That once was not the case.  Does anyone remember when that started?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on July 08, 2006, 12:55:38 AM
Quote from: "spooky112483"
what is the name of the series of films that show people getting killed? i never watched them but it's stuff like people being hit by trains, people committing suicide, falling of buildings or cliffs and stuff like that. those films made millions. ALL of my friends knew about them and had seen them. "Faces of Death" maybe?? anyway, i know they are not snuff films but imo it aint a very far leap there. so the market IS there. it is just underground. no doubt in my mind. I mean look at those "Saw" movies and "Hostle" they are nothing but sex tourture and death HELLO!!!!!


 you are right Spooky.. Faces of death.   I rented one once. not knowing what the hell it was about.. and this was years and years ago.. I was probably your age back then..   One I saw was pretty nasty.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: LouiseVargas on July 08, 2006, 12:56:40 AM
Dear Angie,

I also needed someone to explain to me what a snuff film is. I could not believe that such a thing existed. I met a man online who told me he was booted out of a bulletin board because he posted a pic of what appeared to be a snuff film.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on July 08, 2006, 12:58:08 AM
Quote from: "crazybabyborg"
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
HI Mom Louise!!
  I just cant get over what a snuff film was/is. I had to have someone explain it to me before.. and I was.. grossed out.    I never heard of it ever until  this case.  
Hugs to you Louise~Mom..  love yah chicky poo!


There was a movie about a snuff killing called "8mm". Starred Nicolas Cage, I think. It was the first time that I had ever heard of it.


  I nevr saw it CBB.. Last movie I saw with Nicolas Cage.. was he and John Travolta  in . "FACE OFF"..  (least I think John T was in it..)


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: dkpen on July 08, 2006, 12:59:00 AM
Thought I'd post this again for those who missed my earlier post.

RUN FOR NATALEE!!!

http://runfornatalee.com/


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: crazybabyborg on July 08, 2006, 12:59:58 AM
You know, those e-mails are interesting. The language in them is in stark contrast to the taped van conversation, where every other word is a curse word. Those e-mails read as though they are a story for an English class. The van conversation was probably a bit guarded for fear of being recorded, but more true to reality. The e-mails are definately staged for public viewing, IMO.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: ala_gunslinger on July 08, 2006, 01:01:04 AM
Quote from: "spooky112483"
what is the name of the series of films that show people getting killed? i never watched them but it's stuff like people being hit by trains, people committing suicide, falling of buildings or cliffs and stuff like that. those films made millions. ALL of my friends knew about them and had seen them. "Faces of Death" maybe?? anyway, i know they are not snuff films but imo it aint a very far leap there. so the market IS there. it is just underground. no doubt in my mind. I mean look at those "Saw" movies and "Hostle" they are nothing but sex tourture and death HELLO!!!!!


"When Wild Animals Attack!"

Sounds like a good title for this one if one so exists...

Good morning ya'll to all the Central and Eastern time zones, Good evening to everyone to the east.  

For those of you not on US time - whatever..


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on July 08, 2006, 01:01:20 AM
hi DK~!

  I dont know what to think about the DEEPAK letters..  alot stood out ot me bfore when they were first posted long ago..   THIS part is really weird IMO..


 Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 12:52 am    Post subject:    

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
for what it is worth, here are emails that deepak sent to his friend prior
to being arrested: They were sent a week after she disappeared, so obviously
plenty of time to be coached by the dad to leave a (false) 'paper trail.'


dated 6/5/2005


How are you i hope you and your family is fine.(NAME DELETED) is better i
tell you the truth , before it will be a shock for you later, but i think it
will be a shock for you right now.
The missing girl natalee hollaway,I spoke to her , sunday she left with me ,
my brother and a friend from carlos n' charlies , it was my car like the
news said she got in to, I am one of the persons of intrest , i am one the
the students they've questioned and released as they claimed in the news .
Let see where to start i don't even know where to begin these last days
where so crazy for me i'm very tired haven't slept good in days : The story
starts sunday night when a friend of mine was playing poker at a local
casino (in the holiday inn) after he won the poker at the fourth place he
decided to get up and play some blackjack so he went to the blackjack table
and there was natalee (they were a lil drunk ) so my friend started playing
blackjack and he was winning quite good , so then natalee approached him and
introduced herself and said to him'' your a lucky guy , can you help me win
some of my money back i lost $ 360 , of my fathers money'' so my friend said
ok , why not . so he started playing and he won 100 $ for her back and he
said hey thats the best i can do for you because i doubt it i can win more
money for you so its better i quit so she said ok but at least let me buy
you a drink so they went to the bar (in the casino ). so they took a drink
and started talking etc. about school, the vacation etc.etc.afterwards my
friend had to go and she said that ''today is my last day i will be in
carlos n' charlies will you be there'' and my friend said well i have school
tomorrow i don't think so . well she begged him and he still said yes i'll
be there.So that was in the casino i was not present , i was at work so my
friend called me and said hey i met some girls in the casino and her friends
and they want us to meet them in carlos tonight do you have to work tomorrow
morning i said no , so he said pick me up later then i said ok. so i got off
my shift at 10 pm and went home took a bath had to fix something and then me
and my younger brother went to pick up my friend was around 12.10 am so i
came to his home and was talked for like 15 min and then left to go to
carlos (we all went out without or parents knew) so we arrived like 12.30 am
in carlos (carlos is closing 1 pm ) and headed straight for the bar and
bought 3 drinks my friend paid for them, so besides the bar there is a stage
and people were dancing and there was natalee dancing too (thats the first
time i saw her )and she was calling my friend to get on the stage and dance
with her my friend laughed and refused so after the song was finished she
came up to my friend and asked why he won't dance with her , i only heared
that part because i was talking to someone else so i don't know what he
responded(by then natalee was VERY drunk)so as i said i was talking to
someone when i turned i had lost my brother , natalee and my friend. well
they were announced that they were closing soon so i thought well maybe
they' re waiting for me by the car its better i go there so i went to my car
and nobody was there so i started playing music and was waiting on my
brother and my friend.i waited for like 10 min and then i saw my brother
stepping in the car and my friend who was with natalee. so i was surprised
but anyways i started the engine and my brother was besides me and my friend
and natalee were in the backseet so i started cruising in the area and asked
my friend whats going on so natalee responded to me ''hey its no prob let us
just drive around and have fun its my last night , she said you can drop me
off later at holiday inn anyways right'' i said sure why not so as i was
drove out of the carlos road and got on the mainroad there were natalees
friends and she , pushed het head out of the window and screamed something i
can't recall.so i was driving very slow to make a left to get in the next
road and then one of natalees friend screamed for her to get out of the car
, and she refused so then i stopped my car and i said natalee if your
friends want you to go with them its better you go listen to them and go
with them , she said no i will stay with you guys i will get a lift from you
anways later, so she said bye to her friends and i drove away, so then we
were just talking etc, in the car and then she said she wanted to see sharks
,it was by the lighthouse she saw them before that can we go , my friend
said ok ,deepak lets go. so on my my to the lighthouse there was music
playing and noone talking for a while when i looked in the backmirror my
friend and natalee were kissing and touching (his hands etc was in her
blouse but nothing nude or against natalees will ) so my brother siad just
leave them for a while untill we get to the lighthouse, when i arrived at
the lighthouse i said well here is the lighthouse they did not pay attention
to me , so my brother said lets return (i did not stop anywhere not for a
min only trafficlights) so after like 10 min my friend is telling me that
natalee fell asleep i said you kidding just wake her up and tell ask her if
its holiday inn for sure she is staying so my friend woke her up and
confirmed with natalee she was staying at the holiday inn, so i drove to the
lobby driveway of holiday inn and then we woke her up, she got out of the
car and fell on the floor my friend said damn she fell and then rushed out
of the same door natalee came out and picked her up immediately, after she
stood up she pushed my friend and said leave me alone or something like that
i can't recall , my friend offered to help het to her room she said no. she
he stepped in the car and while i was driving away i saw natalee walking
towards the lobby and a gentleman with a walkie talkie and black clothes
approached her and i think they were talking and i had never seen natalee
again sinds.(holiday inn has no cameras in the driveway or lobby) it was
around 2.15 am .monday i came to work normally 4- 11 pm after work i called
my friend i said whats up he said ok i'm at the raddison casino meet me
there , i said ok so i went there we played poker , we had some drinks and
chat and then we had enough and decided that this casino was booring lets go
to whyndham hotel casino . so i drove to whyndham and as i was parking my
friends dad called him and said the police is at his home with some family
members its about the girl you guys went out with yesterday , so my friend
said wait there i be there, so we rushed at my friends home and there was
the police and nataless family and it was a nightmare sinds then. the police
asked us if we knew this girl showed us a picture we said yes thats her ,
they said she was missing and eyewitness say she was the last seen with you
guys . so they asked a few more questions and we said we don't understand we
left her at holiday inn lobby drive way how could she dissapear and then
natalees stepfather jumped and said ''yes thats because after she went with
you assholes she lost'' and then my friends father jumped and said thats
enough you can't talk to the kids like that this is not the us your out of
you juristiction this is not the way i want you people out of my yard i know
the law (my friends father is e judge) so afterwards another family member
of natalee suggested to the police if we can id the security gard we said
ok. we went there there was no suck security working there as we discribed.
so then we were just standing in the lobby there were questions etc. asked
by other members , and then me and my friend walked to the car natalees mom
was sitting and we said mam you have to believe us we did not do anything
with you daughter, she was crying and said i don't believe you 2 , i promise
you i will make you life a living hell because of this . anwyas we said we
were sorry again ans that we will help in any way possible.i went home 7 pm
tuesday, i was then called 2 pm by the police for questioning i went gave a
statement they said i was a witness no suspect the same went for my brother
and my friend they were questionded and had to sign their statement also ,
the checked my car and i was clear to go , wednesday i was called again to
show them how i drove the route that day ( i could refuse was my right i
still decided to go , as did my brother and friend ) the drove us one by one
and then we were free to go again.thursday morning my friend called me (he
goes to aruba international school and his mother is a teacher there and he
is a straight A student ) in panic and said there a re family members here
at school and they are sharing flyers and the flyers said : GIRL KIDNAPPED
ASK JORAN VANDER SLOOT (thats my friends name ) the principle asked them to
leave and they did .so thats my part of the story yesterday and today it was
quiet no treathen phoncalls what we got before and i won't mention the
crazythings the newspapers etc. writes about us its to much to mention. at
home my mom is losing it she is cryimg constantly , my dad bloodpressure got
high also his hands are red , my friends home is a disaster also ,his mom is
crying constantly also his dad is pretty cool he calmes us down and talks to
us also not to worry , my brother is preety cool but on his face you see he
is worried , my friend is pretty worried also. i'm pretty worried also , we
have 2 lawyers one for my friend and one for me in case we get arrested and
charched with something his dad can't defend hin he is a judge and he is too
emotional attached .my friend has his graduation this thursday he has to go
to the states in july he has a full scholarship. i had to go to vacation
also end of this month.many politicians find we should be locked up
rightnow.We heard a lot of false alarms that she was dead , she was seen
with 2 guys , her hair is cut and is red now ,she was in a crackhouse etc,
we were arrested and , my car is by the police we confessed to murder and
rape, she went in a restaurant to buy food but none of those were true.So
(name deleted) that was my part of the story what i said here is the same in
my statement,people are saying they are bad guys lock them up , the family
is going thru a lot righnow , but what they don't know how the other
families feel and how they also have a reputation and carreers etc. because
when this all is over they will still be talks that were the 3 guys that had
something to do with the kidnap of natalee its a small island.they don't
understand the pressure we are having also, if this girl turns up dead we
have a problem we were the last seen with her . I lost a lot of friends who
think we had to do something with this, many of my friends supported us also
brought food etc. for us at home and know we are innocent, we are innocent
also we promise i would NEVER hurt anyone in anyway, i would do every
everything to help find her thats what we told eveyone also , i would take a
bullet to save her and bring her back to her family if i had to so would my
friend also.i would never never hurt anyone i'm a very happy and social
person who likes to make friends with people and not hurting them


So (NAME DELETED) i will say goodbye now hope you believe me and i pray to
god that they find natalee soon and find her well so that this nightmare
ends for all of us and they we prove we had nothing to do with this, i hope
you pray for all of us say hi to everyone there hope to hear from you soon
and may god bless.........

bye bye

Deepak.



Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2005 15:26:12 +0000

Thank you for your wonderfull email you send me I really appreciate it.
Things are going better with me now , as you you know there has been 2
arrests i don't know if it comes because the information we gave or just
another tip.They were 2 security guards for a hotel nearby the holiday inn
where natalee was staying , but we don't have any further information . I
would be willing to try making an Id by the police for the 2 suspects i only
saw one of them in the news.My parents are doing better now , my friends
parents are doing well as well. Although we are almost of the hook we still
don't walk much on the streets a lot of fingers are being pointed etc. But
the press Is like trying to locate us or something i don't know this morning
my friend got a letter for nbc if we were willing to give an intervieuw for
a very good price we did not respond to them yet , we don't know if we will
give interview as yet. The local press however we won't give any interview
they sad a lot of bad things about us they should be ashamed of
theirselves.But for now its just from home to work for me , and in the
afternoons i go by my friends house we order pizza etc. and watch the news
whats going.
Anyways i have to go now , if i have any ipdates i will let you know asap.
the press is all over it so i don't think you will be missing any part of it
.
As for for natalees parents we did not hear or see them personally yet , the
police chief askes us if we would be willing to talk to them if they wanted
to talk to us . We accepted that as long they would not talk aggressive to
us as they did before.

Take care , Say hi to the others and I will mail you again


bye bye

Deepak.



Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2005 23:33:21 +0000

How is everything there. Well they did not say anything yet about the bloody
T -shirt. (she asked about the bloody mattress report)


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Tylergal on July 08, 2006, 01:01:21 AM
Just for the record.

LOUISE

I never doubted you.  The person who wrote me last summer from Aruba said he was just about sure it was a snuff film that had taken place.  I used to feel sure this was a man because he gave me details so gross that I did not think a woman could think of those things or know those things.  He told me long before it was mentioned in public about a bloody (Baby Huey) shoe in a snuff video.  I never thought a woman could say all those things that he told me and I am just giving the highlights, not the gruesome details of what he told me, and like I said I believed it was a man but after reading at some of dark side sites, I am not at all sure that it was not a woman.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: crazybabyborg on July 08, 2006, 01:02:52 AM
Quote from: "LouiseVargas"
Dear Angie,

I also needed someone to explain to me what a snuff film is. I could not believe that such a thing existed. I met a man online who told me he was booted out of a bulletin board because he posted a pic of what appeared to be a snuff film.


Louise and Angie: This link is about the movie:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0134273/


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Tylergal on July 08, 2006, 01:04:00 AM
Quote from: "crazybabyborg"
Do we know what entity acts as the server for Aruba? Honest, I know for a fact that here, anyway, with a subpoena, the server will cough up the exact transmission for any IP address, complete with time, date and duration. Would the internet server have been involved in transmission of a video? I would think that ALL records would have been captured for Joran's and Deepak's IP address for several days surrounding Nat's disappearance.

Wasn't there mention that Paulus had instructed them to e-mail each other, so that a record COULD be established?

If something of interest existed in a memory card of a cell phone, what do you want to bet that the cell phone "swims with the fishes" at this point?

Also, an accurate record would definately exist as to when Deepak's phone ran out of minutes and when he purchased more minutes.


Somone from Aruba told me the "Deepak" letter was authored by Paulus and/or Anita.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on July 08, 2006, 01:05:18 AM
Quote from: "LouiseVargas"
Dear Angie,

I also needed someone to explain to me what a snuff film is. I could not believe that such a thing existed. I met a man online who told me he was booted out of a bulletin board because he posted a pic of what appeared to be a snuff film.



 WOW~!    When I hear snuff. I think of .. well.. snuff..
never associated that term with movies..  Blew my mind  bigtime to learn what it meant.  I need a mom hug..  (HUGS) to you MOM Louise.
(BT mom. dont get jealous.. LOL)  :)


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: spooky112483 on July 08, 2006, 01:06:22 AM
Quote from: ala_gunslinger
Quote from: "spooky112483"
what is the name of the series of films that show people getting killed? i never watched them but it's stuff like people being hit by trains, people committing suicide, falling of buildings or cliffs and stuff like that. those films made millions. ALL of my friends knew about them and had seen them. "Faces of Death" maybe?? anyway, i know they are not snuff films but imo it aint a very far leap there. so the market IS there. it is just underground. no doubt in my mind. I mean look at those "Saw" movies and "Hostle" they are nothing but sex tourture and death HELLO!!!!!


"When Wild Animals Attack!"

Sounds like a good title for this one if one so exists...

Good morning ya'll to all the Central and Eastern time zones, Good evening to everyone to the east.  

For those of you not on US time - whatever..[/quote]

HAHA Sounds like something I'd say!
Love the episode of Family Guy when the son gets married someplace in Africa and Louis says "Well it may count here but not back in the US where God pays attention"  :lol:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: crazybabyborg on July 08, 2006, 01:06:55 AM
Quote from: "Tylergal"
Quote from: "crazybabyborg"
Do we know what entity acts as the server for Aruba? Honest, I know for a fact that here, anyway, with a subpoena, the server will cough up the exact transmission for any IP address, complete with time, date and duration. Would the internet server have been involved in transmission of a video? I would think that ALL records would have been captured for Joran's and Deepak's IP address for several days surrounding Nat's disappearance.

Wasn't there mention that Paulus had instructed them to e-mail each other, so that a record COULD be established?

If something of interest existed in a memory card of a cell phone, what do you want to bet that the cell phone "swims with the fishes" at this point?

Also, an accurate record would definately exist as to when Deepak's phone ran out of minutes and when he purchased more minutes.


Somone from Aruba told me the "Deepak" letter was authored by Paulus and/or Anita.


Tyler, you are on a common sense extroidinaire, roll tonight. That, too, makes a lot of sense. Wouldn't surprise me at all.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: thirdstrike on July 08, 2006, 01:07:20 AM
Oh no, we're back on those urban legends called "snuff films" again??   :roll:  :arrow:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: ala_gunslinger on July 08, 2006, 01:08:04 AM
Quote from: spooky112483
Quote from: "ala_gunslinger"
Quote from: "spooky112483"
what is the name of the series of films that show people getting killed? i never watched them but it's stuff like people being hit by trains, people committing suicide, falling of buildings or cliffs and stuff like that. those films made millions. ALL of my friends knew about them and had seen them. "Faces of Death" maybe?? anyway, i know they are not snuff films but imo it aint a very far leap there. so the market IS there. it is just underground. no doubt in my mind. I mean look at those "Saw" movies and "Hostle" they are nothing but sex tourture and death HELLO!!!!!


"When Wild Animals Attack!"

Sounds like a good title for this one if one so exists...

Good morning ya'll to all the Central and Eastern time zones, Good evening to everyone to the east.  

For those of you not on US time - whatever..[/quote]

HAHA Sounds like something I'd say!
Love the episode of Family Guy when the son gets married someplace in Africa and Louis says "Well it may count here but not back in the US where God pays attention"  :lol:


How many days until kickoff???  Roll Tide Roll!!!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: thirdstrike on July 08, 2006, 01:08:26 AM
...oh, and Anna...if you're still in here...I wasn't being sarcastic earlier.  I really DO have love 4 U...;)


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: ala_gunslinger on July 08, 2006, 01:09:30 AM
Quote from: "thirdstrike"
Oh no, we're back on those urban legends called "snuff films" again??   :roll:  :arrow:


Well, at least it's not Shango and Simian!  

How are you this time slice Triple X?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: spooky112483 on July 08, 2006, 01:09:45 AM
Quote from: "Tylergal"
Quote from: "crazybabyborg"
Do we know what entity acts as the server for Aruba? Honest, I know for a fact that here, anyway, with a subpoena, the server will cough up the exact transmission for any IP address, complete with time, date and duration. Would the internet server have been involved in transmission of a video? I would think that ALL records would have been captured for Joran's and Deepak's IP address for several days surrounding Nat's disappearance.

Wasn't there mention that Paulus had instructed them to e-mail each other, so that a record COULD be established?

If something of interest existed in a memory card of a cell phone, what do you want to bet that the cell phone "swims with the fishes" at this point?

Also, an accurate record would definately exist as to when Deepak's phone ran out of minutes and when he purchased more minutes.


Somone from Aruba told me the "Deepak" letter was authored by Paulus and/or Anita.


beth said paulus showed them how to use a hardrive as an alibi :wink:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on July 08, 2006, 01:10:38 AM
Quote from: "crazybabyborg"
Quote from: "LouiseVargas"
Dear Angie,

I also needed someone to explain to me what a snuff film is. I could not believe that such a thing existed. I met a man online who told me he was booted out of a bulletin board because he posted a pic of what appeared to be a snuff film.


Louise and Angie: This link is about the movie:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0134273/


  Thanks CBB.. I got the creeps reading the part about dancing with the devil..  DANG!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: ala_gunslinger on July 08, 2006, 01:10:53 AM
btw, has everyone read the comments on the latest masterpiece by Red?

Interesting....


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Anna on July 08, 2006, 01:11:01 AM
.
Even if Deepak were to be out of minutes, he could still receive calls.

Or transmissions.

.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on July 08, 2006, 01:11:40 AM
Quote from: "thirdstrike"
Oh no, we're back on those urban legends called "snuff films" again??   :roll:  :arrow:


  Good evening TS...


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: spooky112483 on July 08, 2006, 01:12:08 AM
Quote from: "ala_gunslinger"



How many days until kickoff???  Roll Tide Roll!!!

not sure but SEC Media Days are in a few weeks I believe and Ken Darby and Ramzee Robinson will be our reps there :D


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: crazybabyborg on July 08, 2006, 01:13:39 AM
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
Quote from: "LouiseVargas"
Dear Angie,

I also needed someone to explain to me what a snuff film is. I could not believe that such a thing existed. I met a man online who told me he was booted out of a bulletin board because he posted a pic of what appeared to be a snuff film.



 WOW~!    When I hear snuff. I think of .. well.. snuff..
never associated that term with movies..  Blew my mind  bigtime to learn what it meant.  I need a mom hug..  (HUGS) to you MOM Louise.
(BT mom. dont get jealous.. LOL)  :)


I'm not really promoting the movie................it is very well done and recieved a tremendously positive rating from critics, but it was the sort of thing that was chilling to see so well done, if that makes sense. Here's the summary as put out by the studio. It gives the feel for the movie, and was supposed to have been extrememly well researched and realistic in terms of the "underworld" that values and distributes that sort of thing.

Tom Welles, private eye, is hired by a wealthy widow, whose well-known husband passed away recently. She has found a reel of S8-film in a safe. On the film is a cruel slaughtering of a young girl, who obviously does not pretend or act: A snuff-movie. Welles takes up investigation, which leads him to the girl's mother and from there to Hollywood, into the office of a porn flick producer. Welles' rising obsession to solve the case also carries him away from his wife and new-born daughter. But when finally names are at hand, Welles suddenly finds himself on ice much thinner than he planned.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: spooky112483 on July 08, 2006, 01:14:07 AM
Quote from: "thirdstrike"
Oh no, we're back on those urban legends called "snuff films" again??   :roll:  :arrow:


Hey Thirdsy!! Read back a few pages. I disagree that they are legends of any kind. I also dont think these boys where making snuff films but that it all happened to them by accident and Freddy knew what he had in his hands.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Anna on July 08, 2006, 01:15:05 AM
Quote from: "thirdstrike"
...oh, and Anna...if you're still in here...I wasn't being sarcastic earlier.  I really DO have love 4 U...;)



Thank you, Third,

I love you, too, {{Blows a Kiss!}}


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: ala_gunslinger on July 08, 2006, 01:15:26 AM
Quote from: "spooky112483"
Quote from: "ala_gunslinger"



How many days until kickoff???  Roll Tide Roll!!!

not sure but SEC Media Days are in a few weeks I believe and Ken Darby and Ramzee Robinson will be our reps there :D


hmmmm, I'm officially unemployed now, might have to check it out..

Reckon Red would get me a media pass????


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: crazybabyborg on July 08, 2006, 01:17:43 AM
If I keep spelling "extremely" as "extrememly", do you think that Webster's will eventually include it in the dictionary? :lol:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: ala_gunslinger on July 08, 2006, 01:18:04 AM
Quote from: "spooky112483"
Quote from: "thirdstrike"
Oh no, we're back on those urban legends called "snuff films" again??   :roll:  :arrow:


Hey Thirdsy!! Read back a few pages. I disagree that they are legends of any kind. I also dont think these boys where making snuff films but that it all happened to them by accident and Freddy knew what he had in his hands.


Guys, I hate to tell ya, you'r mama lied to you.

Monsters are real and they are getting more powerful every day.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: spooky112483 on July 08, 2006, 01:18:13 AM
Quote from: "Anna"
.
Even if Deepak were to be out of minutes, he could still receive calls.

Or transmissions.

.


so if you run out of minutes and i call you it will go straight to your voice mail and i can leave a message that you can retrive as soon as you get more minutes right? and this would work also if i sent you a video or photo?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on July 08, 2006, 01:18:30 AM
Quote from: "ala_gunslinger"
Quote from: "spooky112483"
Quote from: "ala_gunslinger"



How many days until kickoff???  Roll Tide Roll!!!

not sure but SEC Media Days are in a few weeks I believe and Ken Darby and Ramzee Robinson will be our reps there :D


hmmmm, I'm officially unemployed now, might have to check it out..

Reckon Red would get me a media pass????


 HUH?   Oh my.. I hope things go well for yah Slinger. :(


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: ala_gunslinger on July 08, 2006, 01:18:48 AM
And I ain't dissin anyones mama.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on July 08, 2006, 01:20:24 AM
Quote from: "crazybabyborg"
If I keep spelling "extremely" as "extrememly", do you think that Webster's will eventually include it in the dictionary? :lol:


  LOL CBB... I have a few coice words.. I cant repat here.. that would be funny to see in a dictionery!  :)


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: spooky112483 on July 08, 2006, 01:20:38 AM
Quote from: "ala_gunslinger"
Quote from: "spooky112483"
Quote from: "ala_gunslinger"



How many days until kickoff???  Roll Tide Roll!!!

not sure but SEC Media Days are in a few weeks I believe and Ken Darby and Ramzee Robinson will be our reps there :D


hmmmm, I'm officially unemployed now, might have to check it out..

Reckon Red would get me a media pass????


well if he can he better get me one too!!
or you can meet me at Bama Fever and we can try to sneak into the Wynfry Hotel area :wink:  I got connections at Bama Fever you know, oh yeah, I am somebody :lol:  :lol:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Anna on July 08, 2006, 01:22:04 AM
Quote from: "spooky112483"
Quote from: "Anna"
.
Even if Deepak were to be out of minutes, he could still receive calls.

Or transmissions.

.


so if you run out of minutes and i call you it will go straight to your voice mail and i can leave a message that you can retrive as soon as you get more minutes right? and this would work also if i sent you a video or photo?


At the least, Spooky, but would depend on your calling plan I think for if the battery were charged, I think you might could receive regularly and out of minutes would mean you only could not send but could in fact receive normally.

You only pay to send on most plans I think although that seems to be changing now.  This was over a year ago when I think most of them allowed for receiving.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: ala_gunslinger on July 08, 2006, 01:23:23 AM
Quote from: "spooky112483"
Quote from: "Anna"
.
Even if Deepak were to be out of minutes, he could still receive calls.

Or transmissions.

.


so if you run out of minutes and i call you it will go straight to your voice mail and i can leave a message that you can retrive as soon as you get more minutes right? and this would work also if i sent you a video or photo?


Yes, on the other hand...

I(actually, my kids!) have completed the installation of my wireless network, it has a full 7 acre range.

I could also set up a rolling hotspot with better range from a vehicle using only a laptop, and a hub.  All they way back to a central server with the same.  Such as the internet cafe.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Tylergal on July 08, 2006, 01:25:40 AM
Quote from: "Anna"
Quote from: "spooky112483"
Quote from: "Anna"
.
Even if Deepak were to be out of minutes, he could still receive calls.

Or transmissions.

.


so if you run out of minutes and i call you it will go straight to your voice mail and i can leave a message that you can retrive as soon as you get more minutes right? and this would work also if i sent you a video or photo?


At the least, Spooky, but would depend on your calling plan I think for if the battery were charged, I think you might could receive regularly and out of minutes would mean you only could not send but could in fact receive normally.

You only pay to send on most plans I think although that seems to be changing now.  This was over a year ago when I think most of them allowed for receiving.


That was my question a few pages back, Anna.  I think back when this occurred only the sender was charged and if you called me I could receive your call without charge, but in order to make a call I had to have minutes paid, or my phone bill paid up to date.  I don't do the minutes thing, exactly.  I mean we get free minutes, but beyond that we can still get calls.

I got a video from my grandson that he made that was nothing but the side of a truck and cost me $13+ dollars, but he thought he was getting pictures of some children playing with dogs in a park nearby. :roll:   I paid to see the side of a truck.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: ala_gunslinger on July 08, 2006, 01:27:10 AM
Quote from: "spooky112483"
Quote from: "ala_gunslinger"
Quote from: "spooky112483"
Quote from: "ala_gunslinger"



How many days until kickoff???  Roll Tide Roll!!!

not sure but SEC Media Days are in a few weeks I believe and Ken Darby and Ramzee Robinson will be our reps there :D


hmmmm, I'm officially unemployed now, might have to check it out..

Reckon Red would get me a media pass????


well if he can he better get me one too!!
or you can meet me at Bama Fever and we can try to sneak into the Wynfry Hotel area :wink:  I got connections at Bama Fever you know, oh yeah, I am somebody :lol:  :lol:


You should see my Daniel Moore print in my living room.  Wanna take a guess which one it is?

I'm all for it.  I stood outside that store waitin for it to open at 6:00 am after we beat Miami at the Sugarbowl.

hint:  My son was compared to him by the head coach when he won the Mr. Hustle award his senior year in hs.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: crazybabyborg on July 08, 2006, 01:27:28 AM
Quote from: "ala_gunslinger"
And I ain't dissin anyones mama.


I know you're not, Slinger. Just before you posted your comment, I was thinking about the movie I rented last week-end. It was Capote......I hadn't seen it at the theater and was left struck that today, the murder of a family would hardly shake the nation. At the time, the story was huge! Big enough to make a name for the author that wrote about it. Today it wouldn't even be a ripple.  You're right, I too, think evil is gaining. I'm sure that snuff films have been made, sold, watched, and recycled. In the right market, a snuff film is worth a tremendous amount of money. Remember the Dr. Phil show that talked about the female sex slave having a nail driven through her head and then being raped as she died? I believe the reason was because she was getting too old to be used anymore. I'd call that a snuff film.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Hotshot on July 08, 2006, 01:28:29 AM
Quote
Also, an accurate record would definately exist as to when Deepak's phone ran out of minutes and when he purchased more minutes.


Just a litle thought about cell phones on aruba.  If you are out of minutes, you can still recieve calls.  Odd, I know, but it is true.  I have done it.  And I think a video would show up as text.  But then again Aruba is verryyy different.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: ala_gunslinger on July 08, 2006, 01:28:52 AM
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
Quote from: "ala_gunslinger"
Quote from: "spooky112483"
Quote from: "ala_gunslinger"



How many days until kickoff???  Roll Tide Roll!!!

not sure but SEC Media Days are in a few weeks I believe and Ken Darby and Ramzee Robinson will be our reps there :D


hmmmm, I'm officially unemployed now, might have to check it out..

Reckon Red would get me a media pass????


 HUH?   Oh my.. I hope things go well for yah Slinger. :(


Thank you Angie.  At least I got 7 months severence....


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: cochese on July 08, 2006, 01:29:26 AM
Hello monkeys, how is everyone.  Where is Lala's, she needs to write down these people talking about Alabama.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: ala_gunslinger on July 08, 2006, 01:32:17 AM
Quote from: "crazybabyborg"
Quote from: "ala_gunslinger"
And I ain't dissin anyones mama.


I know you're not, Slinger. Just before you posted your comment, I was thinking about the movie I rented last week-end. It was Capote......I hadn't seen it at the theater and was left struck that today, the murder of a family would hardly shake the nation. At the time, the story was huge! Big enough to make a name for the author that wrote about it. Today it wouldn't even be a ripple.  You're right, I too, think evil is gaining. I'm sure that snuff films have been made, sold, watched, and recycled. In the right market, a snuff film is worth a tremendous amount of money. Remember the Dr. Phil show that talked about the female sex slave having a nail driven through her head and then being raped as she died? I believe the reason was because she was getting too old to be used anymore. I'd call that a snuff film.


Thanks CBB.  I would have to agree.  

never heard about that Dr. Phil show...


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: spooky112483 on July 08, 2006, 01:34:06 AM
ok heres where i'm confused. i think we are assuming deepak has a normal cell plan like 400 minutes a month for $29.99. now if you have this type of plan YOU DO NOT RUN OUT OF MINUTES when you go over your alloted amount you get charged extra but you dont run out! deepak said he ran out of minutes which leads me to believe he has one of those prepaid phones where you buy your minutes as you go, like a phone card type deal. in this case you would run out of minutes and your phone would not be able to even recieve calls, it would be completely dead until you bought more minutes, and i dont know if this "dead" phone could still store messages the same way a normal cell that has run out of battery charge will. make sence?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: ala_gunslinger on July 08, 2006, 01:34:47 AM
Quote from: "cochese"
Hello monkeys, how is everyone.  Where is Lala's, she needs to write down these people talking about Alabama.


Hello Cochese.  Now don't get jealous!!!  lol

I spent some time with my PRS today!  But I still keep going back to that 63 Fender!  

We'll see ya'll the 3rd sat in October


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: crazybabyborg on July 08, 2006, 01:36:21 AM
Quote from: "ala_gunslinger"
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
Quote from: "ala_gunslinger"
Quote from: "spooky112483"
Quote from: "ala_gunslinger"



How many days until kickoff???  Roll Tide Roll!!!

not sure but SEC Media Days are in a few weeks I believe and Ken Darby and Ramzee Robinson will be our reps there :D


hmmmm, I'm officially unemployed now, might have to check it out..

Reckon Red would get me a media pass????


 HUH?   Oh my.. I hope things go well for yah Slinger. :(


Thank you Angie.  At least I got 7 months severence....


I'm glad you got such a good severence package, gun. I once got a 6 month severence package when the corp. I was working for merged with another, and my job was eliminated. It turned into a real opportunity for me, and I got paid double for a while because of it. I wish you the same good fortune!  :wink:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: cubbeegirl on July 08, 2006, 01:36:26 AM
Good Evening Monkeyfaces!!!! Have I missed anything tonight?
Am waiting on the last load of laundry that needs to be packed and then it is shower time an off to bed for a few hours of sleep before we hit the road....


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Anna on July 08, 2006, 01:37:19 AM
Quote from: "ala_gunslinger"
Quote from: "spooky112483"
Quote from: "Anna"
.
Even if Deepak were to be out of minutes, he could still receive calls.

Or transmissions.

.


so if you run out of minutes and i call you it will go straight to your voice mail and i can leave a message that you can retrive as soon as you get more minutes right? and this would work also if i sent you a video or photo?


Yes, on the other hand...

I(actually, my kids!) have completed the installation of my wireless network, it has a full 7 acre range.

I could also set up a rolling hotspot with better range from a vehicle using only a laptop, and a hub.  All they way back to a central server with the same.  Such as the internet cafe.



Gunslinger,

I just feel like the internet cafe figures into this in some way because why on earth would they buy that while Deepak was a murder suspect???  That is very interesting that you can do that.   :shock: I am amazed and cannot keep up with all these advances as they seem to be being made almost daily.

If they could use a server there, well, so much for phone records and no wonder Paulus said he could show them how to make an alibi.  They could make lots of things with the use of their own server.

.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: spooky112483 on July 08, 2006, 01:37:20 AM
Quote from: "ala_gunslinger"
Quote from: "spooky112483"
Quote from: "ala_gunslinger"
Quote from: "spooky112483"
Quote from: "ala_gunslinger"



How many days until kickoff???  Roll Tide Roll!!!

not sure but SEC Media Days are in a few weeks I believe and Ken Darby and Ramzee Robinson will be our reps there :D


hmmmm, I'm officially unemployed now, might have to check it out..

Reckon Red would get me a media pass????


well if he can he better get me one too!!
or you can meet me at Bama Fever and we can try to sneak into the Wynfry Hotel area :wink:  I got connections at Bama Fever you know, oh yeah, I am somebody :lol:  :lol:


You should see my Daniel Moore print in my living room.  Wanna take a guess which one it is?

I'm all for it.  I stood outside that store waitin for it to open at 6:00 am after we beat Miami at the Sugarbowl.

hint:  My son was compared to him by the head coach when he won the Mr. Hustle award his senior year in hs.


oh man, George Teague down the sideline??
I bought Prothro's catch this year but it's not the Moore version.
The owner of Bama Fever has them all donated to them From DM. I used to look at them everyday but now I cant remember them all


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: ala_gunslinger on July 08, 2006, 01:37:55 AM
Quote from: "spooky112483"
ok heres where i'm confused. i think we are assuming deepak has a normal cell plan like 400 minutes a month for $29.99. now if you have this type of plan YOU DO NOT RUN OUT OF MINUTES when you go over your alloted amount you get charged extra but you dont run out! deepak said he ran out of minutes which leads me to believe he has one of those prepaid phones where you buy your minutes as you go, like a phone card type deal. in this case you would run out of minutes and your phone would not be able to even recieve calls, it would be completely dead until you bought more minutes, and i dont know if this "dead" phone could still store messages the same way a normal cell that has run out of battery charge will. make sence?


IF he actually ran out of minutes, the msgs would store on the cell phones company's server.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: ala_gunslinger on July 08, 2006, 01:38:54 AM
Quote from: "spooky112483"
Quote from: "ala_gunslinger"
Quote from: "spooky112483"
Quote from: "ala_gunslinger"
Quote from: "spooky112483"
Quote from: "ala_gunslinger"



How many days until kickoff???  Roll Tide Roll!!!

not sure but SEC Media Days are in a few weeks I believe and Ken Darby and Ramzee Robinson will be our reps there :D


hmmmm, I'm officially unemployed now, might have to check it out..

Reckon Red would get me a media pass????


well if he can he better get me one too!!
or you can meet me at Bama Fever and we can try to sneak into the Wynfry Hotel area :wink:  I got connections at Bama Fever you know, oh yeah, I am somebody :lol:  :lol:


You should see my Daniel Moore print in my living room.  Wanna take a guess which one it is?

I'm all for it.  I stood outside that store waitin for it to open at 6:00 am after we beat Miami at the Sugarbowl.

hint:  My son was compared to him by the head coach when he won the Mr. Hustle award his senior year in hs.


oh man, George Teague down the sideline??
I bought Prothro's catch this year but it's not the Moore version.
The owner of Bama Fever has them all donated to them From DM. I used to look at them everyday but now I cant remember them all


OK, another hint...


Bisquit


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: cochese on July 08, 2006, 01:39:50 AM
Quote from: "ala_gunslinger"
Quote from: "cochese"
Hello monkeys, how is everyone.  Where is Lala's, she needs to write down these people talking about Alabama.


Hello Cochese.  Now don't get jealous!!!  lol

I spent some time with my PRS today!  But I still keep going back to that 63 Fender!  

We'll see ya'll the 3rd sat in October


Hey.  I have been looking at a fender stage 100 se.  My brother got season tickets this year so I will see you, better outcome this year.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Tylergal on July 08, 2006, 01:41:03 AM
Quote from: "cochese"
Hello monkeys, how is everyone.  Where is Lala's, she needs to write down these people talking about Alabama.


WAR EAGLE.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: spooky112483 on July 08, 2006, 01:41:16 AM
Quote from: "ala_gunslinger"
Quote from: "crazybabyborg"
Quote from: "ala_gunslinger"
And I ain't dissin anyones mama.


I know you're not, Slinger. Just before you posted your comment, I was thinking about the movie I rented last week-end. It was Capote......I hadn't seen it at the theater and was left struck that today, the murder of a family would hardly shake the nation. At the time, the story was huge! Big enough to make a name for the author that wrote about it. Today it wouldn't even be a ripple.  You're right, I too, think evil is gaining. I'm sure that snuff films have been made, sold, watched, and recycled. In the right market, a snuff film is worth a tremendous amount of money. Remember the Dr. Phil show that talked about the female sex slave having a nail driven through her head and then being raped as she died? I believe the reason was because she was getting too old to be used anymore. I'd call that a snuff film.


Thanks CBB.  I would have to agree.  

never heard about that Dr. Phil show...


yes CBB i have been thinking of that all night but just didnt want to post it, you know?
Slinger, I believe it was during the second episode with Beth when they where discussing the idea Nat could still be alive


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: spooky112483 on July 08, 2006, 01:42:32 AM
Quote from: "ala_gunslinger"
Quote from: "spooky112483"
ok heres where i'm confused. i think we are assuming deepak has a normal cell plan like 400 minutes a month for $29.99. now if you have this type of plan YOU DO NOT RUN OUT OF MINUTES when you go over your alloted amount you get charged extra but you dont run out! deepak said he ran out of minutes which leads me to believe he has one of those prepaid phones where you buy your minutes as you go, like a phone card type deal. in this case you would run out of minutes and your phone would not be able to even recieve calls, it would be completely dead until you bought more minutes, and i dont know if this "dead" phone could still store messages the same way a normal cell that has run out of battery charge will. make sence?


IF he actually ran out of minutes, the msgs would store on the cell phones company's server.

ok thanks


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: ala_gunslinger on July 08, 2006, 01:42:53 AM
sorry

Biscuit


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Tylergal on July 08, 2006, 01:43:07 AM
Quote from: "spooky112483"
Quote from: "ala_gunslinger"
Quote from: "crazybabyborg"
Quote from: "ala_gunslinger"
And I ain't dissin anyones mama.


I know you're not, Slinger. Just before you posted your comment, I was thinking about the movie I rented last week-end. It was Capote......I hadn't seen it at the theater and was left struck that today, the murder of a family would hardly shake the nation. At the time, the story was huge! Big enough to make a name for the author that wrote about it. Today it wouldn't even be a ripple.  You're right, I too, think evil is gaining. I'm sure that snuff films have been made, sold, watched, and recycled. In the right market, a snuff film is worth a tremendous amount of money. Remember the Dr. Phil show that talked about the female sex slave having a nail driven through her head and then being raped as she died? I believe the reason was because she was getting too old to be used anymore. I'd call that a snuff film.


Thanks CBB.  I would have to agree.  

never heard about that Dr. Phil show...


yes CBB i have been thinking of that all night but just didnt want to post it, you know?
Slinger, I believe it was during the second episode with Beth when they where discussing the idea Nat could still be alive


Yes, it was not the Deepak one, but the last one.  Kidnapped and in Mexico.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: crazybabyborg on July 08, 2006, 01:45:24 AM
When you have a wireless router, it can be used by anyone within its' range. When I take my laptop to Florida, at my sister's house, it actually asks me which internet connection I want to use: her router or her neighbor's..............and even gives me their name! Anything transmitted from within the Internet Cafe's wireless range would go out on their IP address, even if you were not inside the Cafe. Very often people go to a Starbuck's or cyberbrew for the very reason that they do not want their e-mails etc. to exist on a server with their personal IP address attached for a year or more.

Gun.....the Dr. Phil show that I referred to had Beth on the show. That's the only reason I watched it. It was when he was speculating that Nat might have been sold into the sex slave trade.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: ala_gunslinger on July 08, 2006, 01:46:04 AM
Quote from: "cochese"
Quote from: "ala_gunslinger"
Quote from: "cochese"
Hello monkeys, how is everyone.  Where is Lala's, she needs to write down these people talking about Alabama.


Hello Cochese.  Now don't get jealous!!!  lol

I spent some time with my PRS today!  But I still keep going back to that 63 Fender!  

We'll see ya'll the 3rd sat in October


Hey.  I have been looking at a fender stage 100 se.  My brother got season tickets this year so I will see you, better outcome this year.


My next one is Marshal double stack, I got a Joe Walsh talk box that needs a head to work right.  

Have you played a CyberTwin?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: spooky112483 on July 08, 2006, 01:46:42 AM
Quote from: "ala_gunslinger"
Quote from: "spooky112483"
Quote from: "ala_gunslinger"
Quote from: "spooky112483"
Quote from: "ala_gunslinger"
Quote from: "spooky112483"
Quote from: "ala_gunslinger"



How many days until kickoff???  Roll Tide Roll!!!

not sure but SEC Media Days are in a few weeks I believe and Ken Darby and Ramzee Robinson will be our reps there :D


hmmmm, I'm officially unemployed now, might have to check it out..

Reckon Red would get me a media pass????


well if he can he better get me one too!!
or you can meet me at Bama Fever and we can try to sneak into the Wynfry Hotel area :wink:  I got connections at Bama Fever you know, oh yeah, I am somebody :lol:  :lol:


You should see my Daniel Moore print in my living room.  Wanna take a guess which one it is?

I'm all for it.  I stood outside that store waitin for it to open at 6:00 am after we beat Miami at the Sugarbowl.

hint:  My son was compared to him by the head coach when he won the Mr. Hustle award his senior year in hs.


oh man, George Teague down the sideline??
I bought Prothro's catch this year but it's not the Moore version.
The owner of Bama Fever has them all donated to them From DM. I used to look at them everyday but now I cant remember them all


OK, another hint...


Bisquit


Cornilius (I think thats how it's spelled :lol:) . Nice.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: cochese on July 08, 2006, 01:47:14 AM
Quote from: "Tylergal"
Quote from: "cochese"
Hello monkeys, how is everyone.  Where is Lala's, she needs to write down these people talking about Alabama.


WAR EAGLE.


I will tell her about this blasphemy also. :lol:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: ala_gunslinger on July 08, 2006, 01:47:41 AM
Quote from: "crazybabyborg"
When you have a wireless router, it can be used by anyone within its' range. When I take my laptop to Florida, at my sister's house, it actually asks me which internet connection I want to use: her router or her neighbor's..............and even gives me their name! Anything transmitted from within the Internet Cafe's wireless range would go out on their IP address, even if you were not inside the Cafe. Very often people go to a Starbuck's or cyberbrew for the very reason that they do not want their e-mails etc. to exist on a server with their personal IP address attached for a year or more.

Gun.....the Dr. Phil show that I referred to had Beth on the show. That's the only reason I watched it. It was when he was speculating that Nat might have been sold into the sex slave trade.


OH!  OK, I remember now.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: spooky112483 on July 08, 2006, 01:48:04 AM
Quote from: "cochese"
Quote from: "Tylergal"
Quote from: "cochese"
Hello monkeys, how is everyone.  Where is Lala's, she needs to write down these people talking about Alabama.


WAR EAGLE.


I will tell her about this blasphemy also. :lol:


 :lol:  :lol:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: ala_gunslinger on July 08, 2006, 01:49:54 AM
Quote from: "spooky112483"
~big snip~

Cornilius (I think thats how it's spelled :lol:) . Nice.


Yep, the SACK!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: crazybabyborg on July 08, 2006, 01:51:03 AM
Tyler; I know what you mean. That had a profound effect on me at the time. It was the first time in my life that I ever felt the depths of evil that some who share this planet can sink into. Even now, I shiver at the thought. Nuff said, I'll get off that! God Bless and keep us all!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: ala_gunslinger on July 08, 2006, 01:51:06 AM
OK ya'll, good night!  Sweet Dreams!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: spooky112483 on July 08, 2006, 01:53:03 AM
Quote from: "ala_gunslinger"
OK ya'll, good night!  Sweet Dreams!


nite nite Roll Tide


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: crazybabyborg on July 08, 2006, 01:55:30 AM
Night, gun! Gonna take more conversation for me to have sweet dreams.........wonder what's on Nick at Nite?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Anna on July 08, 2006, 01:57:46 AM
.
Just thinking about what Gunslinger and Baby Borg said about being in the vacinity of the Internet cafe and that photo with Freddie in the back seat with Steffy and Bailey.  They were in the vacinity of the Internet Cafe.  Very close and perhaps even going there.

.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: cochese on July 08, 2006, 01:58:10 AM
Quote from: "ala_gunslinger"
OK ya'll, good night!  Sweet Dreams!


Nite, rocky top dreams.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: klaasend on July 08, 2006, 01:58:57 AM
Quote from: "Anna"
.
Just thinking about what Gunslinger and Baby Borg said about being in the vacinity of the Internet cafe and that photo with Freddie in the back seat with Steffy and Bailey.  They were in the vacinity of the Internet Cafe.  Very close and perhaps even going there.

.


They were at Diamonds International in that photo which would be a few blocks away from the Cyberzone which is in Seaport Village.

Goodnight All!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Anna on July 08, 2006, 02:01:13 AM
.
Klaas,
Guess I remembered wrong for I thought it was very close to there like on the other side of that row of buildings that International Diamonds was located in.


Think I am out of minutes, lol, so will call it a night as well, Goodnight all.

.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: spooky112483 on July 08, 2006, 02:02:11 AM
Quote from: "Anna"
.
Just thinking about what Gunslinger and Baby Borg said about being in the vacinity of the Internet cafe and that photo with Freddie in the back seat with Steffy and Bailey.  They were in the vacinity of the Internet Cafe.  Very close and perhaps even going there.

.


this line of thinking has been in the back of my mind since we found out the locations of those photos


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: crazybabyborg on July 08, 2006, 02:09:06 AM
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "Anna"
.
Just thinking about what Gunslinger and Baby Borg said about being in the vacinity of the Internet cafe and that photo with Freddie in the back seat with Steffy and Bailey.  They were in the vacinity of the Internet Cafe.  Very close and perhaps even going there.

.


They were at Diamonds International in that photo which would be a few blocks away from the Cyberzone which is in Seaport Village.

Goodnight All!


Nite, Klaas! There are places that purposefully have large ranges for wireless capabilities. Airports are one, for example. Public places that offer that access as part of their business, like the internet cafe would as well. It's a very simple thing to test. If someone on Aruba could just start sending e-mails from a laptop outside of the cafe and keep going further away, eventually the IP address would change, or the laptop would loose internet capability. That could be checked simultaneously, or later by checking the properties from the sender. Know anyone on Aruba that would participate in the experiment? Deepak would certainly have known the range.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: crazybabyborg on July 08, 2006, 02:10:10 AM
Quote from: "Anna"
.
Klaas,
Guess I remembered wrong for I thought it was very close to there like on the other side of that row of buildings that International Diamonds was located in.


Think I am out of minutes, lol, so will call it a night as well, Goodnight all.

.


Nite Anna! Sleep well!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: thirdstrike on July 08, 2006, 02:11:41 AM
Ok, I'm back.  had to take care of some "busines"...

I miss anything??


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: crazybabyborg on July 08, 2006, 02:14:51 AM
Quote from: "thirdstrike"
Ok, I'm back.  had to take care of some "busines"...

I miss anything??


You sure did! You missed ME!  :lol:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: spooky112483 on July 08, 2006, 02:15:06 AM
Quote from: "thirdstrike"
Ok, I'm back.  had to take care of some "busines"...

I miss anything??


just some Roll Tide stuff between me and Slinger


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: lexie on July 08, 2006, 02:18:06 AM
Klass:

I see our friend Maryann has posted again on FP.  VERY interesting that the dates of her trip to Aruba seem to coincide with those of MEDLEY....

HMMM


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: thirdstrike on July 08, 2006, 02:18:20 AM
And, for the record, killers who happen to capture their crimes on videotape as part of some twisted need to immortalize them aren't considered "snuff films".  They are basically documented evidence...nothing more, nothing less.  If that's, in fact, what Joran and his crew did that night, it wasn't for purposes of profit.  It was, IMO, a result of happenstance...


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: thirdstrike on July 08, 2006, 02:19:37 AM
Quote from: "crazybabyborg"
Quote from: "thirdstrike"
Ok, I'm back.  had to take care of some "busines"...

I miss anything??


You sure did! You missed ME!  :lol:


That goes without saying, my dear!  I miss you the very second I leave here...;)


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: SunFreak2 on July 08, 2006, 02:20:31 AM
TRUTH
IN  LIES


WHAT HE SAID [/b] WHAT HE MEANT

1.  Natalee fell and hit her head   Natalee's head was injured

2.  Natalee drowned  Natalee is in the water somewhere

3) What do you want me do? (as he pounds his chest) Nothing can be done for Natalee

4- Natalee took drugs There will be drugs in Natalee's system

5.  I will laugh if they find that girls body  You will never find Natalee

6. Natalee wanted to see my big house   We went to my house

7  Natalee wanted to see the sharks   Natalee is with the sharks

8.  Natalee wanted to have sex with me  I raped her

9.  My 14 SwissK Airs just like these   These are the exact shoes, ya idiot

10.  Deepak, then Satish picked me up, But I walked home.  What does it matter, we were never at that beach

I KNOW THERE ARE TONS OF THESE, AND IF WE CAN PUT THEM ALL TOGTHER AND STUDY THEM,  WE MIGHT LEARN WHAT THEY ARE SAYING SUBLIMINALLY WHAT HAPPENED.  

Will You add to this list, or correct it?  TIA


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: thirdstrike on July 08, 2006, 02:21:07 AM
Quote from: "spooky112483"
Quote from: "thirdstrike"
Ok, I'm back.  had to take care of some "busines"...

I miss anything??


just some Roll Tide stuff between me and Slinger


Sorry I missed that...;)  No plans this evening?  Wait...I guess it's morning where you are.  My bad...;)


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: crazybabyborg on July 08, 2006, 02:25:29 AM
Quote from: "SunFreak2"
TRUTH
IN  LIES


WHAT HE SAID [/b] WHAT HE MEANT

1.  Natalee fell and hit her head   Natalee's head was injured

2.  Natalee drowned  Natalee is in the water somewhere

3) What do you want me do? (as he pounds his chest) Nothing can be done for Natalee

4- Natalee took drugs There will be drugs in Natalee's system

5.  I will laugh if they find that girls body  You will never find Natalee

6. Natalee wanted to see my big house   We went to my house

7  Natalee wanted to see the sharks   Natalee is with the sharks

8.  Natalee wanted to have sex with me  I raped her

9.  My 14 SwissK Airs just like these   These are the exact shoes, ya idiot

10.  Deepak, then Satish picked me up, But I walked home.  What does it matter, we were never at that beach

I KNOW THERE ARE TONS OF THESE, AND IF WE CAN PUT THEM ALL TOGTHER AND STUDY THEM,  WE MIGHT LEARN WHAT THEY ARE SAYING SUBLIMINALLY WHAT HAPPENED.  

Will You add to this list, or correct it?  TIA


I'll appalud it, SunFreak! There's just one that I'm a little "iffy" about: no. 9.
I'm just not sure that maybe Joran wasn't saying the shoes were just like the ones he was wearing because he was scared one would be found that was a different brand/style that would be his size, and he wanted to distance himself from it/them.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: SunFreak2 on July 08, 2006, 02:26:43 AM
Mr. Sandman, bring me a dream
Make him the cutest that I've ever seen
Give him two lips like roses and clover
Then tell him that his lonesome nights are over.
Sandman, I'm so alone
Don't have nobody to call my own
Please turn on your magic beam
Mr. Sandman, bring me a dream.

Mr. Sandman, bring me a dream
Make him the cutest that I've ever seen
Give him the word that I'm not a rover
Then tell him that his lonesome nights are over.
Sandman, I'm so alone
Don't have nobody to call my own
Please turn on your magic beam
Mr. Sandman, bring me a dream.

Mr. Sandman (male voice: “Yesss?) bring us a dream
Give him a pair of eyes with a “come-hither” gleam
Give him a lonely heart like Pagliacci
And lots of wavy hair like Liberace
Mr Sandman, someone to hold (someone to hold)
Would be so peachy before we're too old
So please turn on your magic beam
Mr Sandman, bring us, please, please, please
Mr Sandman, bring us a dream.


Good Night, Monkeys!!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: spooky112483 on July 08, 2006, 02:33:23 AM
Quote from: "thirdstrike"
Quote from: "spooky112483"
Quote from: "thirdstrike"
Ok, I'm back.  had to take care of some "busines"...

I miss anything??


just some Roll Tide stuff between me and Slinger


Sorry I missed that...;)  No plans this evening?  Wait...I guess it's morning where you are.  My bad...;)


yeah and i gotta be at work in a bit so i'm heading to bed.
nite ya'll see ya tomorrow!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: crazybabyborg on July 08, 2006, 02:33:47 AM
Quote from: "thirdstrike"
Quote from: "crazybabyborg"
Quote from: "thirdstrike"
Ok, I'm back.  had to take care of some "busines"...

I miss anything??


You sure did! You missed ME!  :lol:


That goes without saying, my dear!  I miss you the very second I leave here...;)


Wow! How gallant of you third! I'm all "aflutter". I think I like "aflutter"!  :lol:

Hey! That's another one for inclusion in Webster's!
a-flut-ter: avb; 1) having relevence to what Third does to CBB. 2) warm mix of flattered and embarrassment, causing blushed facial tones.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Tylergal on July 08, 2006, 02:34:54 AM
grande Says:
July 7th, 2006 at 10:18 pm
PLANTATION, FLORIDA (Ft. Lauderdale Suburb) http://i6.tinypic.com/1zbw6so.jpg ( Note the addresses! )

INVESTOR PROTECTION ALERT — FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE)
Warning to Alabama Citizens
About Possible Illegal Offer and/or Sale of Securities
MONTGOMERY, ALABAMA (March 4, 2005) Joseph P. Borg, Director of the Alabama
Securities Commission warns Alabama citizens to be on alert for investment offerings from
CARUBA INTERNATIONAL, LLC (“CARUBA”), TRADEWIND HOLDING COMPANY
(“TRADEWIND”) and suspected key associates listed below.

RESPONDENTS
1. CARUBA INTERNATIONAL, LLC (“CARUBA”), with a business address of xxxx N.
University Drive, Suite 102-337, PLANTATION, FL 33322, is an inactive Florida limited liability
company not registered with the Alabama Secretary of State.

http://tinyurl.com/z3kfh

_______________________________________________________________________

Same building as Caruba…

Student Assistance Services, Inc.

Student Financial Services, Inc.
Fred Markowitz
Donald McGovern

LOCATION: 1868 North University Drive, Suite 202, Fort Lauderdale, Florida; and 1802 North University Drive, Suite 200, PLANTATION, Florida

ALLEGATIONS: Have sent more than 1 million postcards to high school and college students advertising scholarship services and listing an 800 number. Telemarketers told consumers that, for a $179 up-front fee, they could find “unclaimed” scholarship and grant funds from private companies, and guaranteed to refund the fee if the students did not get at least $1,000. Consumers received either nothing at all, or a list of “sources” for financial aid for which they had to apply on their own or which in fact were contests, loans or work-study programs. Many sources were no longer available or not suitable for the student. Students seeking refunds had to apply in writing to each source on the list and provide rejection letters and, even then, many did not receive refunds.

THE DISAPPEARANCE OF COLLEEN PERRIS

“It started with something as innocuous as a call to Colleen’s cell phone.

On September 30, 2000, Colleen Perris, a popular PLANTATION, Florida teenager was enjoying her Saturday off lounging at home with her mother Nancy.

At 2:59pm, Colleen was in her bedroom when her cell phone rang.

A short time later, Colleen breezed through the house and told her mother she was going out, but would be home by 5:30pm….”

_______________________________________________________________________

“You can take Gabriel out of Aruba, but you can’t take Aruba out of Gabriel”

Gabriel Leo – PLANTATION, Florida

http://i4.tinypic.com/160e70k.jpg
http://i3.tinypic.com/169m8hx.jpg

I dont get the feeling that he ( Gabriel Leo ) was motivated by the ‘moral rightness of justice’ based on the Broward County Circuit Clerk’s office records.

DRIVING WHILE LICENSE SUSPENDED
FAILURE TO USE DUE CARE
PERSONAL INJURY
CRIMINAL DAMAGES $500 - $2500

Sorry to do this Gabe, however in light of you posting as an apparent Aruban government activist, I suppose you allowed for this.

You stated recently that you have a vacation home in Plantation. You only spend vacations in Florida? Well if that’s the case I would certainly be interested in knowing what criminal activity you are involved with in Aruba. I can only imagine what your rap sheet would look like in, given they had a legitimate justice system.

Also I noted you and your roommates there in Plantation are doing real estate development with specialized HVAC training. Can I ask how you made a living in Aruba?

(CAREFUL WHAT YOU POST ON THE INTERNET. YOU WOULD BE SURPRISED WHAT ELSE YOU CAN FIND OUT ABOUT A PERSON WITH VERY LITTLE INFORMATION – NOTE MY POSTS REGARDING THE NORTH VALLEY CARTEL IN THE SAME OFFICES AS THE POSNERS AND THE DUTCH CONSULATE IN MIAMI. SOLID PROOF.)

_______________________________________________________________________

Curacao apparently has been relocated to PLANTATION, Florida AMONG OTHER THINGS.

http://i5.tinypic.com/16gkg79.jpg

Disclaimer: The information within this profile has been gathered in an effort to research the motives behind the Shango posts and Gabriel Leo posts associated with the Natalee Holloway Case. In an effort to familiarize myself with the political and criminal atmosphere in Aruba, I have been researching the public databases in Aruba, Curacao and Florida. The results of these searches have not been revised or edited in any way. Critical Personal information i.e., street number addresses and phone numbers have been altered in order to discourage personal contact with the individuals of interest.

In the United States each state is responsible for maintaining the articles of incorporation for each business that operates within there states borders. In most cases these records are made public via a searchable database maintained by the Secretary of States Division of Corporations. Individual records include the registered officers and corresponding addresses as well as incorporation date, and more. Changes to ones personal status are to be filed as amendments to the articles of incorporation.

Similarly, civil and criminal records are also in most cases accessible to the public via the web. Criminal records are maintained by the clerk of the courts of the corresponding County. Civil records are generally available through the circuit clerks office.

This is my best faith effort to assist the Holloway family in their attempts to uncover the truth. There is a tremendous amount of individuals providing due diligence on the timeline of events of the night in question, with just cause. It has occurred in my lifetime that in most cases, crime is a result of one of three issues. Money, Politics and personal relationships generally speaking, provide motive for most criminal behavior. Clearly in this case, we can discount personal relationships as a motive for the disappearance of Natalee.

Certainly money and politics did not provide motive for Natalee’s disappearance or did they? I believe we can all agree that in the initial stages money and politics were not a factor for Joran Van Der Sloot. There is no evidence of that nature. My concern is the snakes oil investigation that followed which has lead to our current state of affairs.

With that being said, please accept this information as a sincere effort to assist in the pursuit of CRIMINAL CHARGES against everyone and anyone that played a role in this crime.

Working on a MIAMI, FLORIDA Profile for what it’s worth. It includes very revealing information regarding the Posner’s and the North Valley Cartel.



INTERESTING FRONT PAGE POST


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: crazybabyborg on July 08, 2006, 02:39:09 AM
Nite SunFreak, Nite Spooky! Dolly and Ronstadt did a great version of Sandman! This pic's the only one I could find of Mr. Sandman, but it's for you!

(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c100/crazybabyborgs/sandman_small.jpg)


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: thirdstrike on July 08, 2006, 02:42:38 AM
Quote from: "crazybabyborg"
Quote from: "thirdstrike"
Quote from: "crazybabyborg"
Quote from: "thirdstrike"
Ok, I'm back.  had to take care of some "busines"...

I miss anything??


You sure did! You missed ME!  :lol:


That goes without saying, my dear!  I miss you the very second I leave here...;)


Wow! How gallant of you third! I'm all "aflutter". I think I like "aflutter"!  :lol:

Hey! That's another one for inclusion in Webster's!
a-flut-ter: avb; 1) having relevence to what Third does to CBB. 2) warm mix of flattered and embarrassment, causing blushed facial tones.


I think I am now "aflutter" because of you CBB!  Maybe you can add a 3rd inclusion to reflect what your presence does to me...;)


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: crazybabyborg on July 08, 2006, 02:52:11 AM
Tyler................whoa! Yep, I'd call that a VERY interesting front page post!
It's sure a small world! Plantation has a very healthy "escort" population as well, and at least one stolen BMW that was bought with my second mortgage, without my knowledge. 'Couse at least 25 Plantation citizens have 8X10 color photos of an escort's web page identifying their neighbor, too. I digress, sorry! Hit a nerve.  :oops:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: thirdstrike on July 08, 2006, 03:12:05 AM
Well, I was hoping you were still here CBB, but it appears you may have went off to bed.  In any case, have a good night, and an even better weekend ahead!  ;)


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: crazybabyborg on July 08, 2006, 03:12:47 AM
Just turning in Third! You have a great one too! Nite!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: thirdstrike on July 08, 2006, 03:30:47 AM
Klass, I know you're gone for the night. But, I was reading back, and Houdini had asked for my email address.  Please send him my address when you get the chance.

Thanks in advance.  Everyone have a GREAT weekend!!  ;)


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Jacqueline on July 08, 2006, 06:31:34 AM
Quote from: "crazybabyborg"
Nite SunFreak, Nite Spooky! Dolly and Ronstadt did a great version of Sandman! This pic's the only one I could find of Mr. Sandman, but it's for you!

(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c100/crazybabyborgs/sandman_small.jpg)


WHoa....

That thing would scare me to death if he were to sing me a dream.

 :shock:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: sharon on July 08, 2006, 06:55:54 AM
Quote from: "Tylergal"
Quote from: "crazybabyborg"
Quote from: "Tylergal"
Quote from: "crazybabyborg"
Tyler; it's like Joran's shoes, and the "natalee fell and hit her head" story. There's purpose in the added details that really mean it's something to take a hard look at.


Exactly and I am glad you brought that up about "Fell and hit her head."  That came up today and some do not believe that was ever said.


 :?:  :?:  :?:  :?:
Well, I don't know how to say this, but....................
They are wrong. It was said by Joran and Deepak.


I wish you had been here earlier on those two conversations.  We had some doubtin' Thomases on both those subjects this afternoon.  Shrugged shoulders and went out to eat, dead-headed some roses and returned.


Tylergal --

I will try this one more time before you give too many additional posters the wrong impression.

My question was -- can anyone find a transcript where the statement 'she fell and hit her head' came from any of the 3 boys.

It is not in Deepaks statement to the police or Joran's interview with Greta. I don't remember it Joran's statements to the police either. I don't know if it was in the original Deepak email.

Tylergal -- you provided a transcript where the statement was made by Beth -- and that she did not hear Joran say it. But Jug or one of his friend's heard Joran say it.

Now, before you attempt to twist the words yet again  :wink: I too believe Beth. Always have. Don't have any reason to not believe her.

But my question was -- do we have anywhere a statement -- made by one of the 3 boys -- making this comment about her hitting her head.

I clearly remember the comment. I remember getting the feelling that she hurt herself trying to get away from j2k. I just could not remember the comment coming from j2k.

I hope you do finally understand my question. I apologize that I was not able to articulate this clearly enough. I hope I have now. If not -- it would be preferable to drop the subject rather than have to read any more mistruths written about me.

I don't save articles on my PC, but rather have used the SM archives when I need to research something. Since they are currently unavailable, I thought I would ask the question of the other posters. Sure learned my lesson.

TIA


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: sharon on July 08, 2006, 07:12:56 AM
dkpen -- thanks so much for this! I have now saved your post of the email from Deepak so I won't have to ask about it :wink:  

(excerpt)
"so i drove to the lobby driveway of holiday inn and then we woke her up, she got out of the car and fell on the floor my friend said damn she fell and then rushed out of the same door natalee came out and picked her up immediately, after she stood up she pushed my friend and said leave me alone or something like that i can't recall , my friend offered to help het to her room she said no."


He never says 'she hit her head'. The reason for my questions are the timeline. If Joran said it the first night that Beth and Jug were on the island -- but never said it again....it would imply that at a certain point they knew they didn't need the lie.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: justinsmama on July 08, 2006, 07:26:01 AM
Good morning, monkeys!

Check out my new sig line! Muhahahaha!

Off for the day to the new place. Culligan is coming to install a water softener (really yucky well water...ick), and then I can start cleaning like a white tornado!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: San on July 08, 2006, 09:16:52 AM
Quote from: "sharon"
dkpen -- thanks so much for this! I have now saved your post of the email from Deepak so I won't have to ask about it :wink:  

(excerpt)
"so i drove to the lobby driveway of holiday inn and then we woke her up, she got out of the car and fell on the floor my friend said damn she fell and then rushed out of the same door natalee came out and picked her up immediately, after she stood up she pushed my friend and said leave me alone or something like that i can't recall , my friend offered to help het to her room she said no."


He never says 'she hit her head'. The reason for my questions are the timeline. If Joran said it the first night that Beth and Jug were on the island -- but never said it again....it would imply that at a certain point they knew they didn't need the lie.

Why would she want to push someone away when they were only helping her up.  I guess when Paulus wrote this email a made a mistake with his wording.  Or was he trying to tell us that Natalee was really fighting for her life by trying to push them away.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: klaasend on July 08, 2006, 09:34:34 AM
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8959673

(snipped)
KOSINSKI:  Carlos and Charlie‘s, this is where it all started around 1:30 in the morning, where Natalee celebrated the last night of her graduation trip with her friends and the last place they ever saw her.  Out here getting into a car with the Kalpoe brothers and Joran Van Der Sloot and yelling, “Yay, Aruba,” as they drove off.

But Natalee‘s mother says those friends told her kids were just pouring out of the bar and jumping into the cabs that lined this street and that Natalee thought she was getting into a cab headed back to her hotel.  They also said Joran had told this group that he was also staying at the Holiday Inn.

Getting into that car is the last moment anyone can really say where Natalee was.  One story takes us directly to the Holiday Inn.  Natalee‘s family‘s attorney says at least one of the boys told police they took her here, that she got out of the car, fell and hit her head, that Joran got out and asked her if she needed help, but that she said she was fine.

They also reportedly told police they saw a security guard help her inside.  Problem is, security cameras show absolutely none of this.  


GOODMORNING ALL


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: klaasend on July 08, 2006, 09:36:18 AM
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0508/29/ng.01.html

HOLLOWAY TWITTY: The first story -- and you know, Nancy, I was not in the group when they were giving this information. Jug and the rest of the group that flew in with us were there. But he was stating that he had dropped Natalee off, and that he and Deepak and Satish had dropped her off at the Holiday Inn, when she got out of the car she stumbled, fell, hit her head, got up, and two security guards met her there at the entrance.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: San on July 08, 2006, 09:42:18 AM
Quote from: "klaasend"
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0508/29/ng.01.html

HOLLOWAY TWITTY: The first story -- and you know, Nancy, I was not in the group when they were giving this information. Jug and the rest of the group that flew in with us were there. But he was stating that he had dropped Natalee off, and that he and Deepak and Satish had dropped her off at the Holiday Inn, when she got out of the car she stumbled, fell, hit her head, got up, and two security guards met her there at the entrance.

Notice how Paulus scripted the hit her head theory from day one.  Deepak's email he is saying the same thing.  He changed it slightly by her saying no she was fine after she fell but in the email it says she pushed them away.

To me it is more like who hit her in the head (Joran, Freddy or Paulus).

Good Morning Klaas.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: klaasend on July 08, 2006, 09:52:49 AM
Where did everyone go San??  :lol:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: San on July 08, 2006, 09:55:09 AM
Quote from: "klaasend"
Where did everyone go San??  :lol:

Beats me I'm sitting her patiently waiting :) .  I guess I could do some chores but I don't feel like it.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: San on July 08, 2006, 09:58:07 AM
Klaas, do you know if Dana is going to ask Art Wood questions from the original list or were new questions forwarded to him.  Since we leard a lot about Freddy's brother and possibility a connection with videos that would be a good question to ask.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: JuJu on July 08, 2006, 09:59:10 AM
Hi Monkeys!

I haven;t been able to be here much, is Freddy now the 5th suspect?
And why?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: San on July 08, 2006, 10:01:52 AM
Quote from: "JuJu"
Hi Monkeys!

I haven;t been able to be here much, is Freddy now the 5th suspect?
And why?

Hi JuJu, I will say Freddy is the fifth suspect because Paulus hired an attorney for him at the same times he hired all the others.  Freddy is into making porn videos and possibly filming what happened to Natalee.  JMO.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: klaasend on July 08, 2006, 10:02:26 AM
Quote from: "San"
Klaas, do you know if Dana is going to ask Art Wood questions from the original list or were new questions forwarded to him.  Since we leard a lot about Freddy's brother and possibility a connection with videos that would be a good question to ask.


I'm not sure San.  I know BFN has put together a list to send Dana as well.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: JuJu on July 08, 2006, 10:04:12 AM
Thank you San!  I was just wondering if there was any new info.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: klaasend on July 08, 2006, 10:06:22 AM
No tin placa pa cual no por sigui! VISIBILITY TEAM SANTA CRUZ TA DESAPARECE

ORANJESTAD (AAN): Ta un lastima cu segun informe cu a yega na atencion di DIARIO ta indica cu debi na falta di placa, e grupo di Visibility Team seccion Santa Cruz  ta worde desmantela.
(http://www.diarioaruba.com/diasabra/noticia/visibility%20team.1.jpg)

   Fuentenan a duna DIARIO di conoce cu ta di lamenta cu esaki ta bay socede ya cu desde e team tabata opera na Santa Cruz, crimen a baha te na cero.  Manera ta conoci, esfuerzo sobre humano, y e team aki a funciona bao di guia di sr. Benny Bikker  segun tin entendi.

   Ya cu e control e vigilancia e observacion y action cu e team a presta den Santa Cruz y vecindario tabata magnifica. Cifranan segun informe ta indica esaki cu a frena e crimennan manera destruccion den auto y ladronicia fuera otro actonan di baldadi a baha  te cu a yega na cero.
(http://www.diarioaruba.com/diasabra/noticia/visibility%20team.2.jpg)

   Awor segun por a comprende, debi cu AHATA a confronta problema pa pago di cierto miembronan por a causa cu no por hinca mas placa den Visibility Team ya cu loke ta Santa Cruz, ta nan tambe tabata subsidia esaki. Un total di cuatro  personal di entre otro dos di AHATA, uno di CEA  y uno di KPA a plama for di otro.

   Esnan tanto di CEA y KPA no ta problema, pero e dosnan di AHATA tin di busca un solucion pa nan segun DIARIO por comprende.

   Tur cos ta depende di e compania pa cual nan ta traha. Mientras tanto tin informacion cu personal di Parke Nacional Arikok lo bay ta encarga hunto cu polis pa e vigilancia, na costa den e parke mes.

   No ta conoci si e grupo cu ta bay worde forma lo ta  sigui usa nomber di Visibility Team.

http://www.diarioaruba.com/diasabra/noticia/news4.html


I could be wrong but it looks like more money trouble in Aruba.  I believe this article is saying the Visibility Team in the Arikok Park is out of money.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: JuJu on July 08, 2006, 10:10:13 AM
I some times think we are giving these bunch of Bozos way too much credit.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: BTgirl on July 08, 2006, 10:12:15 AM
Hi monkeys.

I've been reading to catch up, and have one quick question.

Although most people feel Natalee was killed at the VDS residence, I can't get the rocks out of my head. (Wait - something doesn't sound right about that :lol: )

Seriously, I'm not saying Natalee WASN'T killed at Joran's place, but has anyone ever come up with a good theory regarding what all the rock painting was about?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: San on July 08, 2006, 10:14:30 AM
Quote from: "klaasend"

http://www.diarioaruba.com/diasabra/noticia/news4.html

I could be wrong but it looks like more money trouble in Aruba.  I believe this article is saying the Visibility Team in the Arikok Park is out of money.

Gee what happened to the extra security they were working on (as per Julia Renfro :roll: )

Or is this another cheap excuse to get the GVC family off the island by saying business is bad and we have to close down.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: klaasend on July 08, 2006, 10:17:13 AM
Quote from: "San"
Quote from: "klaasend"

http://www.diarioaruba.com/diasabra/noticia/news4.html

I could be wrong but it looks like more money trouble in Aruba.  I believe this article is saying the Visibility Team in the Arikok Park is out of money.

Gee what happened to the extra security they were working on (as per Julia Renfro :roll: )

Or is this another cheap excuse to get the GVC family off the island by saying business is bad and we have to close down.


I don't think VBC security will close down any time soon, they just won the contract to put security cameras in La Cabana resort.  They may have to cut down their number of employees though.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: San on July 08, 2006, 10:17:52 AM
Quote from: "BTgirl"
Hi monkeys.

I've been reading to catch up, and have one quick question.

Although most people feel Natalee was killed at the VDS residence, I can't get the rocks out of my head. (Wait - something doesn't sound right about that :lol: )

Seriously, I'm not saying Natalee WASN'T killed at Joran's place, but has anyone ever come up with a good theory regarding what all the rock painting was about?

Maybe they dumped her body there for a short period while they were waiting for the boat to come and take her body out to sea.  If she was full of blood I'm sure if placed there it would have come off on the rocks.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: klaasend on July 08, 2006, 10:18:13 AM
Quote from: "BTgirl"
Hi monkeys.

I've been reading to catch up, and have one quick question.

Although most people feel Natalee was killed at the VDS residence, I can't get the rocks out of my head. (Wait - something doesn't sound right about that :lol: )

Seriously, I'm not saying Natalee WASN'T killed at Joran's place, but has anyone ever come up with a good theory regarding what all the rock painting was about?

I still think Natalee was at the rock area and there was blood all over the place.  What happened at the VDS home and what happened at the rocks I'm not sure of.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: the big hammer on July 08, 2006, 10:18:14 AM
Hit Her Head

To sharon's question earlier, and thnaks to klaas for digging out those transcripts.  Looks like there were reports early that Natalee "hit her head" upon exiting deepak car at HI during drop off (story was a lie).

Klaas, I recall, but cannot find that headmaster at ISA related to reporter or HT Family that jvds during school said that Natalee "hit her head on side of pool..."

Do you recall this?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: klaasend on July 08, 2006, 10:19:22 AM
Quote from: "the big hammer"
Hit Her Head

To sharon's question earlier, and thnaks to klaas for digging out those transcripts.  Looks like there were reports early that Natalee "hit her head" upon exiting deepak car at HI during drop off (story was a lie).

Klaas, I recall, but cannot find that headmaster at ISA related to reporter or HT Family that jvds during school said that Natalee "hit her head on side of pool..."

Do you recall this?

Yes Hammer I do recall it.  It will probably be in a statement made by Jug or maybe in Dave's book.  I'll look in Dave's book.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: San on July 08, 2006, 10:20:19 AM
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "San"
Quote from: "klaasend"

http://www.diarioaruba.com/diasabra/noticia/news4.html

I could be wrong but it looks like more money trouble in Aruba.  I believe this article is saying the Visibility Team in the Arikok Park is out of money.

Gee what happened to the extra security they were working on (as per Julia Renfro :roll: )

Or is this another cheap excuse to get the GVC family off the island by saying business is bad and we have to close down.


I don't think VBC security will close down any time soon, they just won the contract to put security cameras in La Cabana resort.  They may have to cut down their number of employees though.

I didn't know they won the contract for security at the La Cabana.  Just goes to show you how you are rewarded for covering up a crime.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: BTgirl on July 08, 2006, 10:21:29 AM
I agree that something went on at the rocks, and surely there must have been blood there.

If the folks in Aruba can't come up with a logical explanation of the painting activity, then there is something about it they don't want us to know.  :evil:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: San on July 08, 2006, 10:23:37 AM
Quote from: "BTgirl"
I agree that something went on at the rocks, and surely there must have been blood there.

If the folks in Aruba can't come up with a logical explanation of the painting activity, then there is something about it they don't want us to know.  :evil:

BT they think all their explanations are logical. They think we are the stupid ones that don't understand.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: klaasend on July 08, 2006, 10:25:00 AM
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "the big hammer"
Hit Her Head

To sharon's question earlier, and thnaks to klaas for digging out those transcripts.  Looks like there were reports early that Natalee "hit her head" upon exiting deepak car at HI during drop off (story was a lie).

Klaas, I recall, but cannot find that headmaster at ISA related to reporter or HT Family that jvds during school said that Natalee "hit her head on side of pool..."

Do you recall this?

Yes Hammer I do recall it.  It will probably be in a statement made by Jug or maybe in Dave's book.  I'll look in Dave's book.


http://tinyurl.com/kwe2q
This is a National Enquirer article from July 17, 2005:

(snipped)
 According to another source close to the case, Robert Werner, headmaster of the International School of Aruba, where Joran attended classes, also said that Paulus van der Sloot admitted to him his son confessed that Natalee died accidentally in a fall on a beach.

The source revealed: "Paulus told the headmaster that Joran and Natalee had been taking drugs and decided to go for a swim. As they played in and around the water, Natalee fell, hit her head on a rock and drowned. In a drug and alcohol-induced panic, Joran felt he had no other choice but to dispose of Natalee's body in the sea."
(snipped)


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: BTgirl on July 08, 2006, 10:25:19 AM
Quote from: "San"
Quote from: "BTgirl"
I agree that something went on at the rocks, and surely there must have been blood there.

If the folks in Aruba can't come up with a logical explanation of the painting activity, then there is something about it they don't want us to know.  :evil:

BT they think all their explanations are logical. They think we are the stupid ones that don't understand.


Oh yeah. Stupid me. It's their system again, right? :roll:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Kat_Gram on July 08, 2006, 10:33:11 AM
Quote from: "BTgirl"
I agree that something went on at the rocks, and surely there must have been blood there.

If the folks in Aruba can't come up with a logical explanation of the painting activity, then there is something about it they don't want us to know.  :evil:


They don't want us to know about anything.
I am interested in finding out from Art about Guido. I know
that the boards were all over this. Who was the dealer that was questioned ? Lorenzo ? We all went cross eyed looking for a Lorenzo Wever ... who does not exist. All I knew was that the Wever in question was the son of a leader of a political party there.
.
Guido became a suspect in February according to Gerard Spong his lawyer.
His real name never even came out of Aruba until he was " detained" in Holland.
This is what I know :
He was playing poker with J-Goon the next night.
The Monday night seems to also be very fuzzy, what was everyone doing before the HT's turned up on Aruba ?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: BTgirl on July 08, 2006, 10:33:58 AM
I have to go do some errands. Before I go, I have a question.

From what I've read, Beth feels strongly that Natalee was alive at the VDS residence at some point. The phone call with the sound of the monkey in the background points to that.

However, there was all the suspicious activity with the rock painting.

Does anyone have a theory that would account for Natalee being alive at the VDS residence and bleeding at the painted rocks?

Thanks!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: JuJu on July 08, 2006, 10:35:09 AM
just throwing this out there.........if J2K had taken her to Paulus at the VDS House (not the apartment) after he finished with her she was going in and out of consciousness, he instructed the boys to dump her at some place they had used 20 times before.  She came to, in the car and got the door opened and fell out.  They ran her down and hit her with the car, she was injured but was able to get up and was trying to run from them and she was trying to hide in the area of the rocks.  THIS IS JUST A THEORY!!  Trying to think outside the box...


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: klaasend on July 08, 2006, 10:37:46 AM
Quote from: "JuJu"
just throwing this out there.........if J2K had taken her to Paulus at the VDS House (not the apartment) after he finished with her she was going in and out of consciousness, he instructed the boys to dump her at some place they had used 20 times before.  She came to, in the car and got the door opened and fell out.  They ran her down and hit her with the car, she was injured but was able to get up and was trying to run from them and she was trying to hide in the area of the rocks.  THIS IS JUST A THEORY!!  Trying to think outside the box...

Sounds very possible to me.  Would explain the VDS residence and the rocks.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: San on July 08, 2006, 10:42:30 AM
Quote from: "BTgirl"
I have to go do some errands. Before I go, I have a question.

From what I've read, Beth feels strongly that Natalee was alive at the VDS residence at some point. The phone call with the sound of the monkey in the background points to that.

However, there was all the suspicious activity with the rock painting.

Does anyone have a theory that would account for Natalee being alive at the VDS residence and bleeding at the painted rocks?

Thanks!

This is just my theory but I feel once Natalee did make this phone all plans changed.  I feel either Joran went bezerk and killed her because she mess up the plans or she started fighting her attack and someone hit her in the head with an object.  As someone stated head injuries have a lot of blood.  The rock area was either a place to dump her bloody body or like I said above where she was placed while they waited for a boat to dispose of her body.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: JuJu on July 08, 2006, 10:44:44 AM
there is also the possibility that J2K decided to have a little fun before they got rid of her, they raped her at the rocks and blood and DNA could be found there.  That poor baby, only God knows what they did to her.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: the big hammer on July 08, 2006, 10:45:23 AM
Not Pool, But Rocks...

So the headmaster indicates "rocks"...hhmmm.

To sharon's point earlier and then replies by I believe Anna: my interpretation of original question/input posed by sharon suggests that possibly there may be more veracity attached to the earliest statements attributed to the three and those around them.

I believe this is valid.  Within the first hours after the crime (assume approx 4:00am May 30), and assuming that pvds engaged to mastermind coverup and alibi manufacture, the attention of those involved would have been focused on hiding/disposal and maintaining as normal a routine as possible.  This suggests to me that poolside strategy session w/ "family" (as mentioned by Mickey Johns upon release) likely happened at earliest on afternoon of May 30 -- AFTER jvds returns from school (presuming he was there at all).

This narrow window of time, when jvds was away from sloot residence and presumably deepak and satish are home (or maybe deepak works daytime shift at Cyberzone) offers an opportunity.  That opportunity is that they are apart and telling stories about previous nite WITHOUT the benefit of pvds alibi advice.

It is this time window that may provide a better view on what might have actually happened because no one had yet set the first alibi in place.  

What we do know is that by time HT family arrives at sloot house at approx 2:00am on May 31 -- that jvds and deepak were telling a completely different tale than "beach and rocks" (which is what jvds is reportedly saying just hours earlier among his classmates).  It is at this time they set the HI drop off lie in motion.  And they hung on to this lie for days and days -- it provided basis for arrest of Jones & Johns on June 5, and even to point of having Croes show up after the 3 arrested to corroborate the HI drop off lie, AFTER June 9.

It would be important too to learn at what point in time exactly did story switch from HI drop off to leaving Natalee on beach.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: San on July 08, 2006, 10:47:28 AM
Quote from: "JuJu"
just throwing this out there.........if J2K had taken her to Paulus at the VDS House (not the apartment) after he finished with her she was going in and out of consciousness, he instructed the boys to dump her at some place they had used 20 times before.  She came to, in the car and got the door opened and fell out.  They ran her down and hit her with the car, she was injured but was able to get up and was trying to run from them and she was trying to hide in the area of the rocks.  THIS IS JUST A THEORY!!  Trying to think outside the box...

This is a good theory.  The one question that comes to mind for me is that how did all the blood get in Deepak's car.  Did they then kill her and take her back to the VDS residence in a panic to get Paulus help.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: BTgirl on July 08, 2006, 10:47:56 AM
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "JuJu"
just throwing this out there.........if J2K had taken her to Paulus at the VDS House (not the apartment) after he finished with her she was going in and out of consciousness, he instructed the boys to dump her at some place they had used 20 times before.  She came to, in the car and got the door opened and fell out.  They ran her down and hit her with the car, she was injured but was able to get up and was trying to run from them and she was trying to hide in the area of the rocks.  THIS IS JUST A THEORY!!  Trying to think outside the box...

Sounds very possible to me.  Would explain the VDS residence and the rocks.


That makes sense to me too, but I have one more question. If she got hurt when she got out of the car at the rocks, how do we account for the large amount of blood that was reportedly inside Deepak's car? If she was already injured when they took her to the rocks and she bled inside Deepak's car, wouldn't she have to have been conscious and able to run around in order to get blood on that many rocks?

How do we account for her bleeding both inside the car and on the rocks outside the car?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: JuJu on July 08, 2006, 10:52:11 AM
How much blood was found in the car?  I didn't know if that was true or not.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Leslie on July 08, 2006, 10:53:26 AM
Amigoe
http://www.amigoe.com/english/
Diario (what happened to Friday, July 7th edition?)
http://www.diarioaruba.com/
Solo Di Pueblo has not been updated recently
http://tinyurl.com/k3fcv


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: klaasend on July 08, 2006, 10:53:43 AM
Quote from: "the big hammer"
Not Pool, But Rocks...

So the headmaster indicates "rocks"...hhmmm.

To sharon's point earlier and then replies by I believe Anna: my interpretation of original question/input posed by sharon suggests that possibly there may be more veracity attached to the earliest statements attributed to the three and those around them.

I believe this is valid.  Within the first hours after the crime (assume approx 4:00am May 30), and assuming that pvds engaged to mastermind coverup and alibi manufacture, the attention of those involved would have been focused on hiding/disposal and maintaining as normal a routine as possible.  This suggests to me that poolside strategy session w/ "family" (as mentioned by Mickey Johns upon release) likely happened at earliest on afternoon of May 30 -- AFTER jvds returns from school (presuming he was there at all).

This narrow window of time, when jvds was away from sloot residence and presumably deepak and satish are home (or maybe deepak works daytime shift at Cyberzone) offers an opportunity.  That opportunity is that they are apart and telling stories about previous nite WITHOUT the benefit of pvds alibi advice.

It is this time window that may provide a better view on what might have actually happened because no one had yet set the first alibi in place.  

What we do know is that by time HT family arrives at sloot house at approx 2:00am on May 31 -- that jvds and deepak were telling a completely different tale than "beach and rocks" (which is what jvds is reportedly saying just hours earlier among his classmates).  It is at this time they set the HI drop off lie in motion.  And they hung on to this lie for days and days -- it provided basis for arrest of Jones & Johns on June 5, and even to point of having Croes show up after the 3 arrested to corroborate the HI drop off lie, AFTER June 9.

It would be important too to learn at what point in time exactly did story switch from HI drop off to leaving Natalee on beach.


JK2 were arrested on June 9th and at that time were tellling the HI drop off story.  On June 17th Steve Croes was arrested.  He was arrested because he had come in the day before to cooberate the HI drop off story but by then ALE knew it was already a lie.  Some time between June 9th and June 16th the story change.  I'll try to find out when.  It was probably durring interrigations because very early on ALE knew the cameras didn't show Natalee being dropped off.  They knew that prior to the security guards were arrested.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: San on July 08, 2006, 10:55:40 AM
Quote from: "klaasend"

JK2 were arrested on June 9th and at that time were tellling the HI drop off story.  On June 17th Steve Croes was arrested.  He was arrested because he had come in the day before to cooberate the HI drop off story but by then ALE knew it was already a lie.  Some time between June 9th and June 16th the story change.  I'll try to find out when.  It was probably durring interrigations because very early on ALE knew the cameras didn't show Natalee being dropped off.  They knew that prior to the security guards were arrested.

It was also said that Joran changed his story three times before it matched the Kalpoes.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: JuJu on July 08, 2006, 10:57:04 AM
another thought.......maybe the sharks were the people in a game at the VDS home. (Paulus & buddies).  If she were raped by several different individuals there, I am sure she would have some injuries, even if she was just trying to fight thme off.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Kat_Gram on July 08, 2006, 10:57:52 AM
Quote from: "BTgirl"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "JuJu"
just throwing this out there.........if J2K had taken her to Paulus at the VDS House (not the apartment) after he finished with her she was going in and out of consciousness, he instructed the boys to dump her at some place they had used 20 times before.  She came to, in the car and got the door opened and fell out.  They ran her down and hit her with the car, she was injured but was able to get up and was trying to run from them and she was trying to hide in the area of the rocks.  THIS IS JUST A THEORY!!  Trying to think outside the box...

Sounds very possible to me.  Would explain the VDS residence and the rocks.


That makes sense to me too, but I have one more question. If she got hurt when she got out of the car at the rocks, how do we account for the large amount of blood that was reportedly inside Deepak's car? If she was already injured when they took her to the rocks and she bled inside Deepak's car, wouldn't she have to have been conscious and able to run around in order to get blood on that many rocks?

How do we account for her bleeding both inside the car and on the rocks outside the car?

The " rocks " by the pool at the VDS house. If they were there at all.
The placement of that rock whatever it is poolside a tthe VDS place looks
strange to me. Like a speed bump. You can usually run all around a pool.
There are alot of buildings on that property. We reaaly don't know. I still have a hard time with them going to the house seeing Paulus was there.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: BTgirl on July 08, 2006, 10:58:17 AM
Quote from: "JuJu"
How much blood was found in the car?  I didn't know if that was true or not.


Wasn't it someone with the FBI who reported to Beth/Dave that due to the amount of blood in the car they had concluded that Natalee was dead?

Can somebody help me out here?  Y'all know I'm old. :roll:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: San on July 08, 2006, 11:00:33 AM
Quote from: "JuJu"
How much blood was found in the car?  I didn't know if that was true or not.

I don't remember how much blood was found I only remember the statement that there was blood all over Deepak's car (which I believe the FBI stated).  Later on Aruba said it was chocolate after they sent it for testing :roll: .


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: San on July 08, 2006, 11:02:59 AM
Quote from: "BTgirl"
Quote from: "JuJu"
How much blood was found in the car?  I didn't know if that was true or not.


Wasn't it someone with the FBI who reported to Beth/Dave that due to the amount of blood in the car they had concluded that Natalee was dead?

Can somebody help me out here?  Y'all know I'm old. :roll:

I believe you are right BT and you are not old.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: JuJu on July 08, 2006, 11:04:48 AM
What were the original charges against PVDS?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: klaasend on July 08, 2006, 11:05:30 AM
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,170678,00.html

(snipped)
TWITTY: Because I think I was asking questions that she didn’t know that I knew about, things that she wouldn’t tell me and I was confronting her with, you know, things like the blood in the car. If you’ll remember, way early on in the investigation, even the prime minister came and said, Yes, they found blood in the car. The FBI said they found blood in the car. She says they didn’t. She says they — I know for a fact that they cut parts out of the seat, cut parts out of the ceiling of Deepak’s car, and they sent them wherever to get tested. And she said no. Initially, the FBI said there was blood all over the car, but then they came back and said now it’s cleaning fluid. And I went ballistic in the meeting. And you know, there are a lot of other things that I went ballistic on because she’s so vague on everything that she tells you. You know, here’s a perfect example, when she hasn’t communicated with Beth in a month. So another...  (snipped)


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: BTgirl on July 08, 2006, 11:06:58 AM
Quote from: "San"
Quote from: "BTgirl"
Quote from: "JuJu"
How much blood was found in the car?  I didn't know if that was true or not.


Wasn't it someone with the FBI who reported to Beth/Dave that due to the amount of blood in the car they had concluded that Natalee was dead?

Can somebody help me out here?  Y'all know I'm old. :roll:

I believe you are right BT and you are not old.


Thanks San! :D


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: BTgirl on July 08, 2006, 11:09:01 AM
Quote from: "klaasend"
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,170678,00.html

(snipped)
TWITTY: Because I think I was asking questions that she didn’t know that I knew about, things that she wouldn’t tell me and I was confronting her with, you know, things like the blood in the car. If you’ll remember, way early on in the investigation, even the prime minister came and said, Yes, they found blood in the car. The FBI said they found blood in the car. She says they didn’t. She says they — I know for a fact that they cut parts out of the seat, cut parts out of the ceiling of Deepak’s car, and they sent them wherever to get tested. And she said no. Initially, the FBI said there was blood all over the car, but then they came back and said now it’s cleaning fluid. And I went ballistic in the meeting. And you know, there are a lot of other things that I went ballistic on because she’s so vague on everything that she tells you. You know, here’s a perfect example, when she hasn’t communicated with Beth in a month. So another...  (snipped)


Thanks Klaas. I was pretty sure it was the FBI, but wanted to check.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: beachwego on July 08, 2006, 11:09:37 AM
Quote from: "BTgirl"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "JuJu"
just throwing this out there.........if J2K had taken her to Paulus at the VDS House (not the apartment) after he finished with her she was going in and out of consciousness, he instructed the boys to dump her at some place they had used 20 times before.  She came to, in the car and got the door opened and fell out.  They ran her down and hit her with the car, she was injured but was able to get up and was trying to run from them and she was trying to hide in the area of the rocks.  THIS IS JUST A THEORY!!  Trying to think outside the box...

Sounds very possible to me.  Would explain the VDS residence and the rocks.


That makes sense to me too, but I have one more question. If she got hurt when she got out of the car at the rocks, how do we account for the large amount of blood that was reportedly inside Deepak's car? If she was already injured when they took her to the rocks and she bled inside Deepak's car, wouldn't she have to have been conscious and able to run around in order to get blood on that many rocks?

How do we account for her bleeding both inside the car and on the rocks outside the car?


Perhaps on the way to be dropped off (alive) in the vicinity of the lighthouse after she was raped, videotaped at the VDS house, she managed to get the phone call off (seems to fit the time frame) while still in the car.  When she was discovered with the phone, someone (most likely Joran) hit her across the head strong enough to cause a spurting blood wound (wasnt the blood on the ceiling as well as the seat).   She then managed to exit the car, running towards the rocks, with the car right after her.  Possibly she was hit by the car while they were tracking her down and then was savagely beaten by an enraged Joran at the rock area.

Horrible, horrible thoughts but it is what I have imagined for a long time...everything seems to fit within this theory.   :cry:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: JuJu on July 08, 2006, 11:17:38 AM
me too beach, have not been able to put it out there till now.  It is so disturbing.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Shizaru on July 08, 2006, 11:17:46 AM
Any theory that has all 3 present when she was injured or died isn't viable.  It's clear from the polis car tapes that at least one member of the trio doesn't know what happened to her.  If they all knew and none of them suspected they were being taped, there would have been no reason for them to all act like they didn't know.  And if 2 or 3 of them knew and one of those 2 or 3  suspected they were being taped, he would have said something to alert the other(s), so they didn't say anything incriminating.    

I think what happened was either:
a) Joran alone was present when he raped and killed her
b) First Joran alone was present when he raped her, then D and/or S alone were present when they raped and killed her


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: BTgirl on July 08, 2006, 11:18:28 AM
Quote from: "beachwego"

Perhaps on the way to be dropped off (alive) in the vicinity of the lighthouse after she was raped, videotaped at the VDS house, she managed to get the phone call off (seems to fit the time frame) while still in the car.  When she was discovered with the phone, someone (most likely Joran) hit her across the head strong enough to cause a spurting blood wound (wasnt the blood on the ceiling as well as the seat).   She then managed to exit the car, running towards the rocks, with the car right after her.  Possibly she was hit by the car while they were tracking her down and then was savagely beaten by an enraged Joran at the rock area.

Horrible, horrible thoughts but it is what I have imagined for a long time...everything seems to fit within this theory.   :cry:


That's a sound theory, Beachy. It would seem to account for everything, especially if Natalee made the call as they were leaving the VDS residence and that's why Beth heard the monkey in the background.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: sharon on July 08, 2006, 11:19:19 AM
Thank you Hammer.

And there are supposedly NO statements from that night in the vds driveway. Or they are incomplete. Charles Croes was there -- yet I have not heard him repeat this.

And we have seen no statements by the boys themselves (interviews, police transcripts, emails) saying this about hitting her head. Of course, we have not seen any statements by Satish. :?:

We have heard a reference to a conversation with the headmaster -- with a slightly different story already the next morning (from jvds). I'd love to see the headmasters statement to ALE (if he gave one).

To me -- it places a lot more importance on this lie. And the timing. IMO.

That's all I was trying to get at. I didn't express that very well.

Have a great day Monkeys. Justice for Natalee.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: BTgirl on July 08, 2006, 11:21:23 AM
One thing I meant to add - if Natalee was bleeding and escaped from the car, she would probably have blood on her hands. If she were trying to negotiate her way around the rocks and holding on to them, that might account for some of the odd places they painted the rocks. The paint was to cover her blood left there as she scrambled amongst the rocks while trying to escape. :cry:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: San on July 08, 2006, 11:21:39 AM
Quote from: "JuJu"
What were the original charges against PVDS?

One of them was suspicion of premeditated murder.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: BTgirl on July 08, 2006, 11:22:24 AM
Quote from: "sharon"
Thank you Hammer.

And there are supposedly NO statements from that night in the vds driveway. Or they are incomplete. Charles Croes was there -- yet I have not heard him repeat this.

And we have seen no statements by the boys themselves (interviews, police transcripts, emails) saying this about hitting her head. Of course, we have not seen any statements by Satish. :?:

We have heard a reference to a conversation with the headmaster -- with a slightly different story already the next morning (from jvds). I'd love to see the headmasters statement to ALE (if he gave one).

To me -- it places a lot more importance on this lie. And the timing. IMO.

That's all I was trying to get at. I didn't express that very well.

Have a great day Monkeys. Justice for Natalee.


You have a great day too, Sharon.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: JuJu on July 08, 2006, 11:24:54 AM
The call could have been made when they took her to PVDS & Buds and was going to leave her there.  Joran could have taken her into the house and told her to stay there that they would be back.....hense...I don't know these people...


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: San on July 08, 2006, 11:26:12 AM
Quote from: "BTgirl"
One thing I meant to add - if Natalee was bleeding and escaped from the car, she would probably have blood on her hands. If she were trying to negotiate her way around the rocks and holding on to them, that might account for some of the odd places they painted the rocks. The paint was to cover her blood left there as she scrambled amongst the rocks while trying to escape. :cry:

Is there where Guido Weaver comes into play for his Heavy Battery charge near the rocks.  Was Natalee severly injured at the VDS residence and did Guido help his friend Joran finish the job near the rocks.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: oldfart on July 08, 2006, 11:27:16 AM
Good day Monkeys :)

Just scanning to see  what is going on..  
I sent some ?'s to Dana (noticed that thread had not been updated).

Klaasend  FWIW   it seems that the HI story changed after MaMa visited Joran in jail. :?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: the big hammer on July 08, 2006, 11:27:36 AM
Earliest Statements: More Veracity?

Yes sharon.

This is certainly worth a look.  Anything they said PRIOR to meeting HT family in sloot driveway area at about 2:00am on 5/31 has, at this point, a reasonable chance at being more accurate than most of what they said since then.  Because it was at this point they launched the complete fabrication and lie of HI drop off and this timing likely PRECEEDED poolside strategy session w/ pvds.

They were on their own among their friends/classmates, etc for a very brief window of time, attempting to engage normal routine, but they were WITHOUT benefit of pvds alibi manufacturing, and direction on what to say/not say.

ANd that is why early talk of rock and head is important -- particularly headmaster of ISA.  And others too, as posted by klaas a few minutes ago.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: JuJu on July 08, 2006, 11:27:54 AM
What battery charge?


Quote from: "San"
Quote from: "BTgirl"
One thing I meant to add - if Natalee was bleeding and escaped from the car, she would probably have blood on her hands. If she were trying to negotiate her way around the rocks and holding on to them, that might account for some of the odd places they painted the rocks. The paint was to cover her blood left there as she scrambled amongst the rocks while trying to escape. :cry:

Is there where Guido Weaver comes into play for his Heavy Battery charge near the rocks.  Was Natalee severly injured at the VDS residence and did Guido help his friend Joran finish the job near the rocks.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Ono on July 08, 2006, 11:29:51 AM
Quote from: "Tylergal"
Quote from: "Sue"
If Deepaks cell was out of minutes where was Joran calling to get a ride at 2am to 3 am or 4 am when ever he got home


His cell was not out of minutes.  That's their tale.  Want to see mine?  There was no reason to say that except for cover.  They interjected too much superfluous information meant to fool the public and that seemed to have worked.


I agree..Another useless (but telling) embroidering.

Good Morning All ~


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: beachwego on July 08, 2006, 11:29:58 AM
Quote from: "BTgirl"
One thing I meant to add - if Natalee was bleeding and escaped from the car, she would probably have blood on her hands. If she were trying to negotiate her way around the rocks and holding on to them, that might account for some of the odd places they painted the rocks. The paint was to cover her blood left there as she scrambled amongst the rocks while trying to escape. :cry:


Exactly, BT, that is what I picture also....and of course, there is also the possibility that she could have been grabbed and swung around a few times as she fought to get away....which would have slung blood all around the rocks and the ground.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Ono on July 08, 2006, 11:32:06 AM
Quote from: "crazybabyborg"
Tyler; it's like Joran's shoes, and the "natalee fell and hit her head" story. There's purpose in the added details that really mean it's something to take a hard look at.


Absolutely.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: klaasend on July 08, 2006, 11:35:45 AM
I had this saved and believe it's from the World Journier site:

First 48 hours

5/30/05
11:30am - Paul Lilly (chaperone) notifies local Aruban authorities that Natalee is missing.  An Aruban police beach patrol officer was dispatched to take a report and collect a copy of her passport and other information for identification purposes. 12:00pm, Paul Lilly calls Beth Twitty and tells her Natalee did not show up at the hotel group meeting to go to the airport.

9:00pm - Paul Lilly (chaperone) phones Aruba police asking for an update on the police findings.  It has been reported that the first Aruban police beach patrol officer failed to submit Natalee's passport and other information.  Aruban police say that there is no news about Natalee being found.

5/31/05
2:00am+ - The Twitty's, Charles Croes, G. Ruffner Page jr. Alberto, Jody Bearman, Paul Lilly, DEA agent, FBI agent, a kid who knows Croes and a kid who knows Joran VDS drive to the Aruban police at Noord station arriving some time after 2:00am.
2:45am - All of the above AND 2 Aruban policemen leave Noord police station headed for the Sloot home. (Beth told MSNBC on 8/23 that when they were searching for JVDS the night of 5/31, and after they learned his name and asked for details about him they were told by someone, "he tend to prey upon your kids, and American tourists".
3:00am - All of the above arrive at the VDS home and the 2 police knock on the door while everyone else stays back.  No one immediately answers, so police sound their siren a couple of times.  PVDS eventually answers the door and speaks to police.  Charles Croes overhears PVDS mentioning something about "McDonalds".  Police ask if Joran is home but PVDS says Joran is not home. (Joran's apartment is not attached to the main house.  Did PVDS look for Joran or just tell police that he was not home).  PVDS says Joran may be at the Wyndham Hotel casino gambling. (review of the Wyndham Hotel video tapes document that Joran was never at the Wyndham Hotel casino gambling the evening/morning of 5/30-5/31, he had not been there at all.
5:00am - the entire group above return to the VDS home to find Joran and Deepak casually leaning up against Deepaks honda.  Beth stayed in the car and the meeting lasted about 1 hour.  Beth claims that durring this meeting Joran admits to sexually assaulting Natalee, that it was said in front of witnesses.  Charles Croes in an 6/29 interview says Joran said there was talk about sex. on 10/14 Jug states to Foxnews that the 2 Aruban police officers that witnessed Joran regarding the sexual assault did not document it in their witness reports.  The 2 Aruban police officers/witnesses claim they cannot recall what as said that night.
6:00am -Conversations and questions become heated.  The police the group to leave.  The Aruban police leave the VDS residence without searching the residence, Deepaks car, or taking any further investigative actions.

Natalee's toothbrush was taken into custody but was not tested until late July according to Tito Lacle, the toothbrush is said to have male DNA on it.

6/1/05
Dave Holloway arrives in aruba and goes to 2 police stations that knew nothing about Natalee before arriving at the station in Noord.  The detective in charge of the investigation answered—quote—‘no, this happens all the time. Just go on down to Carlos N‘ Charlie’s and have a beer. She’ll show up sometime. She probably got drunk or fell in love and ran off with someone for a few days.  Dave goes on to say, “quote—‘Dennis Jacobs responded with the following inappropriate question. How much money do you have?’ ” (DAVE responded “there were two witnesses there that can confirm that.” is what JACOBS said to DAVE)

Beth told CNN on 10/4 that she went to the police station on 6/1 to give her statement of what occurred on 5/31. Beth gave her statement and it was printed in Dutch and translated for her in English, she was asked to sign it which she did. Dennis Jacobs found Beth and Jug later that night and told Beth she needed to sign a new statement, that the date needed to be corrected.  This new statement was only in Dutch but Beth signed it anyway assuming only the date had been changed.  According to Beth her entire statement had been changed. None of the other witnesses were asked to give statements until 16 days later.  The DEA agent has never been asked for a statement.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: oldfart on July 08, 2006, 11:35:58 AM
OMG..

I actually managed  to find something I was looking for  :shock:
Aruba Suspect Changes Story; Dad Arrested
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,160514,00.html


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Kat_Gram on July 08, 2006, 11:35:59 AM
Quote from: "the big hammer"
Earliest Statements: More Veracity?

Yes sharon.

This is certainly worth a look.  Anything they said PRIOR to meeting HT family in sloot driveway area at about 2:00am on 5/31 has, at this point, a reasonable chance at being more accurate than most of what they said since then.  Because it was at this point they launched the complete fabrication and lie of HI drop off and this timing likely PRECEEDED poolside strategy session w/ pvds.

They were on their own among their friends/classmates, etc for a very brief window of time, attempting to engage normal routine, but they were WITHOUT benefit of pvds alibi manufacturing, and direction on what to say/not say.

ANd that is why early talk of rock and head is important -- particularly headmaster of ISA.  And others too, as posted by klaas a few minutes ago.

Well, there are so many rumors and speculations.
Art on Dana ...... although Art was not there right at the beginning, he knows facts. There ae very few of those around in this case.
I have a Q for Art, although let Art talk is the BEST.
I read and this is the problem, I read way too much and my brain becomes cluttered with things that are put there by ppl like the infamous Julia.
Can the PVDS property ever be searched again ? OR
Did he get a court thingie that it couldn't ?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: JuJu on July 08, 2006, 11:37:18 AM
Let's put our heads together.

What issues come up over and over again:

1. The rocks

2. The lighthouse

3. the VDS home

Please add to or take away as you like.....open for discussion


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Ono on July 08, 2006, 11:41:33 AM
Quote from: "Tylergal"
Quote from: "crazybabyborg"
Tyler; it's like Joran's shoes, and the "natalee fell and hit her head" story. There's purpose in the added details that really mean it's something to take a hard look at.


Exactly and I am glad you brought that up about "Fell and hit her head."  That came up today and some do not believe that was ever said.


So far I see these key things they are really worried about:

Evidence on Joran's shoes; her head injury; 8 1/2 cell phone/maybe computer activity between Joran & Deepak; her calling for help from the car; being seen at the Sloot compound.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: crazybabyborg on July 08, 2006, 11:46:50 AM
Morning All!

I've got to catch up but wanted to say HI!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Shizaru on July 08, 2006, 11:49:26 AM
In the VF article it says: "If her body had been buried on Aruba, it probably would have been found by now. If it had been dumped into the surf, it would have ended up back on the beach the following morning. But 200 yards offshore is a sandbar. It's a romantic rendezvous. Couples sometimes go there to make love, and the fishermen watch from their boats. On the other side of that sandbar the current shifts, running west. Anything placed in the water on the far side of the sandbar will drift away from the island, toward Panama. If Natalee was deposited there, her body is gone forever."

Is this sandbar visible in any aerial photos of M beach area?  

If this info is true could explain how Joran gets rid of her body from M beach before returning home and surfing net.  Only problem would be the 3 fishermen who say they saw nothing that nite, seems like they would have noticed someone swimming with a body or carrying a body on the sandbar.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Anna on July 08, 2006, 11:53:34 AM
.
Good Morning, All!


HAMMER,

I have always contended that what the Headmaster said in the very beginning could hold the key to so many things.  Jug practically begged that his statement be taken.  I believe the HM went away for most of the summer after school was out and by the time he returned he was a team player and had dummied up.

But he is an American and was talking openly with the friends of Jug who went to the school to put up the posters on Wednesday and told them plenty.  Too bad no one took all that down but then that would be assuming they actually wanted evidence.   :(

So instead we get the revised version of history after Anita and Julia Renfro work it over.  It was the repeating of what Anita had claimed which was totally false instead of what the headmaster said, claimed by Julia Renfroe on national TV, that began the rift between her and Beth for it was a completely different story than what the HM was telling to the friends of Jug earlier.  First big tip as to whose side Julia was really on after all.

.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: beachwego on July 08, 2006, 11:56:44 AM
Quote from: "Ono"
Quote from: "Tylergal"
Quote from: "crazybabyborg"
Tyler; it's like Joran's shoes, and the "natalee fell and hit her head" story. There's purpose in the added details that really mean it's something to take a hard look at.


Exactly and I am glad you brought that up about "Fell and hit her head."  That came up today and some do not believe that was ever said.


So far I see these key things they are really worried about:

Evidence on Joran's shoes; her head injury; 8 1/2 cell phone/maybe computer activity between Joran & Deepak; her calling for help from the car; being seen at the Sloot compound.


Seems that's it, Ono....pretty good deductions.

So...where does KJ stand?   Can she..and if so...Will she present these to the judge?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Ono on July 08, 2006, 11:57:17 AM
Quote from: "crazybabyborg"
You know, those e-mails are interesting. The language in them is in stark contrast to the taped van conversation, where every other word is a curse word. Those e-mails read as though they are a story for an English class. The van conversation was probably a bit guarded for fear of being recorded, but more true to reality. The e-mails are definately staged for public viewing, IMO.


I agree..I always thought they were pure fictional self-serving propaganda, perhaps using a few facts, but twisting them. It's halo-polishing hogwash.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Ono on July 08, 2006, 12:00:17 PM
Quote from: "beachwego"
Quote from: "Ono"
Quote from: "Tylergal"
Quote from: "crazybabyborg"
Tyler; it's like Joran's shoes, and the "natalee fell and hit her head" story. There's purpose in the added details that really mean it's something to take a hard look at.


Exactly and I am glad you brought that up about "Fell and hit her head."  That came up today and some do not believe that was ever said.


So far I see these key things they are really worried about:

Evidence on Joran's shoes; her head injury; 8 1/2 cell phone/maybe computer activity between Joran & Deepak; her calling for help from the car; being seen at the Sloot compound.


Seems that's it, Ono....pretty good deductions.

So...where does KJ stand?   Can she..and if so...Will she present these to the judge?


The 'jury is still out' regarding KJ as far as I'm concerned..Time will tell but she's not looking too good!  She worries me. Going back to page two now...trying to catch up again..LOL! 8)


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: beachwego on July 08, 2006, 12:02:29 PM
Quote from: "oldfart"
OMG..

I actually managed  to find something I was looking for  :shock:
Aruba Suspect Changes Story; Dad Arrested
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,160514,00.html


A good find, OF!  If I am reading it correctly, it says that Joran changed his story to dropped her at the beach on Thursday, the same day Paulis was arrested.   Pretty telling!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Kat_Gram on July 08, 2006, 12:02:43 PM
Quote from: "Anna"
.
Good Morning, All!


HAMMER,

I have always contended that what the Headmaster said in the very beginning could hold the key to so many things.  Jug practically begged that his statement be taken.  I believe the HM went away for most of the summer after school was out and by the time he returned he was a team player and had dummied up.

But he is an American and was talking openly with the friends of Jug who went to the school to put up the posters on Wednesday and told them plenty.  Too bad no one took all that down but then that would be assuming they actually wanted evidence.   :(

So instead we get the revised version of history after Anita and Julia Renfro work it over.  It was the repeating of what Anita had claimed which was totally false instead of what the headmaster said, claimed by Julia Renfroe on national TV, that began the rift between her and Beth for it was a completely different story than what the HM was telling to the friends of Jug earlier.  First big tip as to whose side Julia was really on after all.

.

Yup. Even how Joran got to school on Monday is questionable.
Did he get a ride 1/2 way ?
What about the Tuesday, thought PVDS drove him and explained why he was late ? Company from Alabama ?
The first PUBLIC info about the change in the story came when the guard was released. And it came from the guard, not via a " sanitizer" "spin-person".
Anita being on the TV speaking in such glowing terms of J-Goon. we had all seen the tickle sites and the many pictures of Joran passed out or having himself a party.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Ono on July 08, 2006, 12:02:48 PM
Quote from: "Tylergal"
Just for the record.

LOUISE

I never doubted you.  The person who wrote me last summer from Aruba said he was just about sure it was a snuff film that had taken place.  I used to feel sure this was a man because he gave me details so gross that I did not think a woman could think of those things or know those things.  He told me long before it was mentioned in public about a bloody (Baby Huey) shoe in a snuff video.  I never thought a woman could say all those things that he told me and I am just giving the highlights, not the gruesome details of what he told me, and like I said I believed it was a man but after reading at some of dark side sites, I am not at all sure that it was not a woman.


 :shock:  :shock:  :shock:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Anna on July 08, 2006, 12:04:00 PM
.Geraldo Sat night Oct 1

You know Geraldo, he is lying there again.
He is saying he never had sex with her, and yes he did.
In the statements, he specifically states that he had sex with my daughter at his home while she is coming in and out of consciousness.
He also admits the sexual assaults against Natalee as she is coming in and out of consciousness.
That is just simply not true. (that he didn't have sex with her)

Geraldo:
And your reaction is that he has not been charged with rape?

Beth:
I am outraged, I can't imagine that rape is not a crime within Dutch law. It has to be.

Geraldo:
He suggests in this next bite that Natalee was a loose woman, and if Joran didn't step up to the plate, it would have been some other guy at the bar.

Geraldo:
The police statements you have read, he took her back to his home. So, this sex while she is in and out of consciousness happened at his home, not the beach.

Beth:
Yes, Joran gives a statement to the police that he had sex with my daughter at his home.

Geraldo:
Is this a baloney story about the beach?

Beth:
You know Geraldo, I don't know. All we can think is maybe after they had this gang rape against my daughter at his home, then maybe they did leave her at the beach.
We don't know where they last left Natalee.

http://www.scaredmonkeys.net/viewtopic.php?p=236449#236449


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: JuJu on July 08, 2006, 12:04:34 PM
in the cover of darkness people do things that they would not normally do. Only in the light of day did panic and coverup begin.  I believe that PVDS told Joran to get rid of her and only found out the next day what a mess he had made of it and the cover up began.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: crazybabyborg on July 08, 2006, 12:05:35 PM
I'm so out of the loop..................
Is Art Wood going to be back on Dana this week-end??? ( I Hope)!

I want him to tell all he knows about the phone call Nat is supposed to have gotten off to Beth. That's the one with the monkey, and she says, "I don't know these people", right? Am I str8 on this? TIA


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: oldfart on July 08, 2006, 12:07:47 PM
Quote from: "crazybabyborg"
I'm so out of the loop..................
Is Art Wood going to be back on Dana this week-end??? ( I Hope)!

I want him to tell all he knows about the phone call Nat is supposed to have gotten off to Beth. That's the one with the monkey, and she says, "I don't know these people", right? Am I str8 on this? TIA

CCB
He is on tonight at 10 Eastern...



SeeeYaaByeeeeeee   alll


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Anna on July 08, 2006, 12:08:05 PM
Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:44 pm    Post subject:    

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
snoopy wrote:
Arubagirl. Good to see you.  

Were you the one who said that a neighbor of Deepaks saw his car being washed? If so, what day was it? Was it the night Natalee dis. or the next night? Also if this is the case, who was washing the car? TIA


Arubagirl


It was the same night, the lady only referred to the people washing the car as 'them', so I took it as the brothers.

Getagrip, to me the translation is perfect! And I am really wondering why Diario just doesn't find out just WHO is the actual owner of thecasino.
_________________
 

.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: crazybabyborg on July 08, 2006, 12:11:24 PM
I'm trying hard to catch you guys, but I have a strong feeling that we are dancing on the truth all over the place this morning. The truth is just under us, and the posts are great. We're looking at the right pieces, just have to turn them the right way, and they'll fall into place. Don't forget Freddy..........


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Shizaru on July 08, 2006, 12:14:13 PM
Quote from: "beachwego"
Quote from: "oldfart"
OMG..

I actually managed  to find something I was looking for  :shock:
Aruba Suspect Changes Story; Dad Arrested
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,160514,00.html


A good find, OF!  If I am reading it correctly, it says that Joran changed his story to dropped her at the beach on Thursday, the same day Paulis was arrested.   Pretty telling!


I'm pretty sure the sequence was:

1) Joran changes his story from HI dropoff to 2K dropped him off at home and drove off with Natalee (think this was on June 10)

2) Then 2K both change their story from HI dropoff to Marriott beach dropoff (this was also around June 10, may have been a day or two later), and they have stuck with that same story ever since

3) Then Joran changes his story to match 2K about Marriott beach dropoff, but later changes it two more times about how he got home from Marriott beach

The fact that 2K both came up with Marriott beach dropoff before Joran is one reason I think it is probably true, they aren't smart enough to have prepared that backup story in advance


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Ono on July 08, 2006, 12:14:44 PM
Quote from: "cochese"
Quote from: "Tylergal"
Quote from: "cochese"
Hello monkeys, how is everyone.  Where is Lala's, she needs to write down these people talking about Alabama.


WAR EAGLE.


I will tell her about this blasphemy also. :lol:


Blasphemy is right!  8)  Alabama-Auburn 18 November

Bama's first game is Sept. 2 Hawaii


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Anna on July 08, 2006, 12:15:06 PM
Shoes:

Tess LaCoyle



Joined: 31 Jul 2005
Location: NC
 Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 1:49 pm    Post subject:    

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Good afternoon, Everybody!

Just got caught up...lots of interesting posts.

Re the one shoe v. two shoes question, here's a blast from the past, August 2, 2005, which mentions two shoes, or a pair:

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/08/02/aruba.missing/index.html

Aruba suspect faces new questions
Behavioral experts to interview van der Sloot over missing teen

Tuesday, August 2, 2005; Posted: 8:08 a.m. EDT (12:08 GMT)

(CNN) -- The only suspect who remains jailed in connection with the disappearance of American teen Natalee Holloway in Aruba faces further questions Tuesday, authorities said.

Dutch behavioral specialists will interview 17-year-old Joran van der Sloot as investigators try to shed new light on the case more than two months after Holloway vanished on the Caribbean resort island off Venezuela.

Defense attorney Antonio Carlo said his client has said all he is going to say and does not know what more he can add.

Carlo said van der Sloot's parents have been visiting their son frequently. Van der Sloot is being held in the youth section of a prison facility, with access to newspapers and television.

"He's holding up," Carlo said.

Van der Sloot, son of an Aruban judge, will be taken to a police station for Tuesday's interview.

Dave Holloway, the missing teenager's father, said the family has had "22 different stories from this guy."

"I just hope that this new team can get to the bottom of it," he told CNN's "Larry King Live."

Holloway, 18, an honors student from suburban Birmingham, Alabama, disappeared May 30 while on a graduation trip with classmates.

She was last seen leaving a nightclub with van der Sloot and two brothers, Deepak and Satish Kalpoe, who were jailed early on but later released.

No one has been formally charged in the teen's disappearance.

Aruban authorities said Monday they were looking for a pair of size 14 tennis shoes that van der Sloot might have had on the night Holloway disappeared.

"He says he might have lost a pair of sneakers on the beach the night Natalee disappeared. That's what he claims in one of his many statements," lead police investigator Roy Tromp said.

Tromp said the suspect described the shoes as white and blue and brand new.

"He claimed he lost them in the area of Fisherman's Hut, but we're looking at other places," Tromp said, referring to a beach area near the Marriott and Holiday Inn hotels. Holloway was staying at the Holiday Inn.

Among the other places searched was a pond drained last week after a witness said he saw van der Sloot and the Kalpoe brothers in the area.

Authorities said Saturday they had completed their search of the pond but had found nothing.
_________________
Truth is a shining goddess, always veiled, always distant, never wholly approachable, but worthy of all the devotion of which the human spirit is capable--Bertrand Russell
 
Back to top    
 

.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: crazybabyborg on July 08, 2006, 12:15:41 PM
Quote from: "San"
Quote from: "BTgirl"
Quote from: "JuJu"
How much blood was found in the car?  I didn't know if that was true or not.


Wasn't it someone with the FBI who reported to Beth/Dave that due to the amount of blood in the car they had concluded that Natalee was dead?

Can somebody help me out here?  Y'all know I'm old. :roll:

I believe you are right BT and you are not old.


 I may be loosing my mind, but, I swear, I thought Oduber confirmed the blood in the car. Anybody?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Ono on July 08, 2006, 12:18:05 PM
Quote from: "crazybabyborg"
Tyler; I know what you mean. That had a profound effect on me at the time. It was the first time in my life that I ever felt the depths of evil that some who share this planet can sink into. Even now, I shiver at the thought. Nuff said, I'll get off that! God Bless and keep us all!


Me too...I couldn't believe my ears.  :shock:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: crazybabyborg on July 08, 2006, 12:18:27 PM
Shizaru wrote:
Any theory that has all 3 present when she was injured or died isn't viable. It's clear from the polis car tapes that at least one member of the trio doesn't know what happened to her. If they all knew and none of them suspected they were being taped, there would have been no reason for them to all act like they didn't know. And if 2 or 3 of them knew and one of those 2 or 3 suspected they were being taped, he would have said something to alert the other(s), so they didn't say anything incriminating.


Yes. And Deepak said, "Freddy has to tell the truth".


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: oldfart on July 08, 2006, 12:18:32 PM
Quote from: "Shizaru"
Quote from: "beachwego"
Quote from: "oldfart"
OMG..

I actually managed  to find something I was looking for  :shock:
Aruba Suspect Changes Story; Dad Arrested
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,160514,00.html


A good find, OF!  If I am reading it correctly, it says that Joran changed his story to dropped her at the beach on Thursday, the same day Paulis was arrested.   Pretty telling!


I'm pretty sure the sequence was:

1) Joran changes his story from HI dropoff to 2K dropped him off at home and drove off with Natalee (think this was on June 10)

2) Then 2K both change their story from HI dropoff to Marriott beach dropoff (this was also around June 10, may have been a day or two later), and they have stuck with that same story ever since

3) Then Joran changes his story to match 2K about Marriott beach dropoff, but later changes it two more times about how he got home from Marriott beach

The fact that 2K both came up with Marriott beach dropoff before Joran is one reason I think it is probably true, they aren't smart enough to have prepared that backup story in advance


Just found another link
Three Suspects in Holloway Case Change Stories
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,159327,00.html

June 13th


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Buckeye on July 08, 2006, 12:21:05 PM
Quote from: "crazybabyborg"
Shizaru wrote:
Any theory that has all 3 present when she was injured or died isn't viable. It's clear from the polis car tapes that at least one member of the trio doesn't know what happened to her. If they all knew and none of them suspected they were being taped, there would have been no reason for them to all act like they didn't know. And if 2 or 3 of them knew and one of those 2 or 3 suspected they were being taped, he would have said something to alert the other(s), so they didn't say anything incriminating.


Yes. And Deepak said, "Freddy has to tell the truth".


And in the Deepak email...he mentions that he and his friend have hired lawyers.  He doesn't mention Satish (or his brother).  Did Satish have an attorny right from the start??


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Ono on July 08, 2006, 12:21:59 PM
Quote from: "SunFreak2"
TRUTH
IN  LIES


WHAT HE SAID [/b] WHAT HE MEANT

1.  Natalee fell and hit her head   Natalee's head was injured

2.  Natalee drowned  Natalee is in the water somewhere

3) What do you want me do? (as he pounds his chest) Nothing can be done for Natalee

4- Natalee took drugs There will be drugs in Natalee's system

5.  I will laugh if they find that girls body  You will never find Natalee

6. Natalee wanted to see my big house   We went to my house

7  Natalee wanted to see the sharks   Natalee is with the sharks

8.  Natalee wanted to have sex with me  I raped her

9.  My 14 SwissK Airs just like these   These are the exact shoes, ya idiot

10.  Deepak, then Satish picked me up, But I walked home.  What does it matter, we were never at that beach

I KNOW THERE ARE TONS OF THESE, AND IF WE CAN PUT THEM ALL TOGTHER AND STUDY THEM,  WE MIGHT LEARN WHAT THEY ARE SAYING SUBLIMINALLY WHAT HAPPENED.  

Will You add to this list, or correct it?  TIA


Ya beat me to it! LOL!  :D


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Buckeye on July 08, 2006, 12:22:15 PM
It would be telling if Paulus hired attornies for Joran, Deepak and Freddy at the onset.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: crazybabyborg on July 08, 2006, 12:24:25 PM
Quote from: "Buckeye"
Quote from: "crazybabyborg"
Shizaru wrote:
Any theory that has all 3 present when she was injured or died isn't viable. It's clear from the polis car tapes that at least one member of the trio doesn't know what happened to her. If they all knew and none of them suspected they were being taped, there would have been no reason for them to all act like they didn't know. And if 2 or 3 of them knew and one of those 2 or 3 suspected they were being taped, he would have said something to alert the other(s), so they didn't say anything incriminating.


Yes. And Deepak said, "Freddy has to tell the truth".


And in the Deepak email...he mentions that he and his friend have hired lawyers.  He doesn't mention Satish (or his brother).  Did Satish have an attorny right from the start??


Another indictment of those e-mails as stage props: Deepak didn't hire an attorney. Paulus hired one for him.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: klaasend on July 08, 2006, 12:25:08 PM
Quote from: "Buckeye"
It would be telling if Paulus hired attornies for Joran, Deepak and Freddy at the onset.


According to Art Wood he did.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: JuJu on July 08, 2006, 12:27:31 PM
Does anybody know where Freddy was that night?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Buckeye on July 08, 2006, 12:27:36 PM
we
have 2 lawyers one for my friend and one for me in case we get arrested and
charched with something his dad can't defend hin he is a judge and he is too
emotional attached .my friend has his graduation this thursday he has to go

http://tinyurl.com/qm4w5


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Buckeye on July 08, 2006, 12:29:00 PM
forgot to add, Deepak didn't say he hired the attorny...sorry..


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: BTgirl on July 08, 2006, 12:33:43 PM
Hi monkeys.

I'm back for a couple of minutes and trying to get a timeline straight in my head.

1)The guys took a drugged Natalee to the VDS residence and raped her.
2)They put her in the car to take her to the beach and leave her.
3)Before they drive away from the VDS residence, Natalee manages to call Beth.
4)The guys get Natalee to the beach and "something bad happens."
5)Natalee bleeds in the car, then manages to get out of the car.
6)She clambers around the rocks while trying to escape and bleeds on them.
7)At some point Natalee dies.
8)The coverup begins.


If we buy this as a possible timeline, and we assume that the 8 1/2 minute phone call was Joran/K2 transmitting a porn video of Natalee being raped, when during the timeline did the transmission occur? Would anyone have thought to transmit a porn video while trying to deal with a body?

What do you think?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Shizaru on July 08, 2006, 12:35:33 PM
Quote from: "crazybabyborg"
Shizaru wrote:
Any theory that has all 3 present when she was injured or died isn't viable. It's clear from the polis car tapes that at least one member of the trio doesn't know what happened to her. If they all knew and none of them suspected they were being taped, there would have been no reason for them to all act like they didn't know. And if 2 or 3 of them knew and one of those 2 or 3 suspected they were being taped, he would have said something to alert the other(s), so they didn't say anything incriminating.


Yes. And Deepak said, "Freddy has to tell the truth".


But then Joran responded with something like "You know Freddy has told the truth".  So my take on the mention of Freddy on the tape is that 2K suspected (or were pretending to suspect) Freddy of some involvement, but didn't know it for certain.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Buckeye on July 08, 2006, 12:35:47 PM
Maybe they are telling the truth.  They did drop Natalee and Joran by the Marriot beach...they just forgot to mention they also dropped off Deepak.  Then they met up with Freddy (who might have been with Guido or GVC).  Then they went to Jorans in Freddy's car or Satish got a ride home.

I can't see Joran heading to the beach where one of the 100+ MB students could have been hanging or walking around.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: crazybabyborg on July 08, 2006, 12:40:15 PM
Found it:

pg. 80, Aruba/Dave Holloway:

We expalained how we were first told that there was blood in Deepak's car. Then, there was no blood in the car.The seat had been cut out of the car and it tested positive for blood.Then, it supposedly tesed positive for chocolate syrup and cleaning fluid. But the Prime Minister had said it was definitely blood, and a police officer that Art talked to, said it was positive for blood.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Red on July 08, 2006, 12:42:18 PM
Front page post:

IRS Renews Email Alert Following New Scams; Look Who’s on the List … Aruba


http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/2006/07/08/irs-renews-email-alert-following-new-scams-look-whos-on-the-list-aruba/

One glaring name shows up out of all the ones listed. Out of all the countries in the world that could be listed, how does such a small island like Aruba show up on so many lists?

These scam Web sites have been located in many different countries, including Argentina, Aruba, Australia, ...


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Ono on July 08, 2006, 12:44:38 PM
Quote from: "San"
Quote from: "sharon"
dkpen -- thanks so much for this! I have now saved your post of the email from Deepak so I won't have to ask about it :wink:  

(excerpt)
"so i drove to the lobby driveway of holiday inn and then we woke her up, she got out of the car and fell on the floor my friend said damn she fell and then rushed out of the same door natalee came out and picked her up immediately, after she stood up she pushed my friend and said leave me alone or something like that i can't recall , my friend offered to help het to her room she said no."


He never says 'she hit her head'. The reason for my questions are the timeline. If Joran said it the first night that Beth and Jug were on the island -- but never said it again....it would imply that at a certain point they knew they didn't need the lie.

Why would she want to push someone away when they were only helping her up.  I guess when Paulus wrote this email a made a mistake with his wording.  Or was he trying to tell us that Natalee was really fighting for her life by trying to push them away.


There is something else therein that always jumped out at me where he says " fell on the floor"...that's indicative of something happening in an interior scene...maybe stone flooring so prevalent now in residential decor.....particularly in beach areas everywhere.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: JuJu on July 08, 2006, 12:46:25 PM
Quote from: "BTgirl"
Hi monkeys.

I'm back for a couple of minutes and trying to get a timeline straight in my head.

1)The guys took a drugged Natalee to the VDS residence and raped her.
2)They put her in the car to take her to the beach and leave her.
3)Before they drive away from the VDS residence, Natalee manages to call Beth.
4)The guys get Natalee to the beach and "something bad happens."
5)Natalee bleeds in the car, then manages to get out of the car.
6)She clambers around the rocks while trying to escape and bleeds on them.
7)At some point Natalee dies.
8)The coverup begins


If we buy this as a possible timeline, and we assume that the 8 1/2 minute phone call was Joran/K2 transmitting a porn video of Natalee being raped, when during the timeline did the transmission occur? Would anyone have thought to transmit a porn video while trying to deal with a body?

What do you think?


I think it is close to the truth.  I have missed much along the way.  Was there an 81/2 min. call or a porn video, is this a fact?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Shizaru on July 08, 2006, 12:46:34 PM
Quote from: "Buckeye"
Maybe they are telling the truth.  They did drop Natalee and Joran by the Marriot beach...they just forgot to mention they also dropped off Deepak.  Then they met up with Freddy (who might have been with Guido or GVC).  Then they went to Jorans in Freddy's car or Satish got a ride home.

I can't see Joran heading to the beach where one of the 100+ MB students could have been hanging or walking around.


The area north of the Mariott and just south of the FH is about 1000 yards from the HI, or about a 5 minute walk.  At that time of nite it is dark and deserted.  Not much chance of any of her classmates being there.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: crazybabyborg on July 08, 2006, 12:47:28 PM
What's the lynchpin to Fort Lauderdale, anyway? That's where Oduber was when this happened. That's where the guy........was it Taylor Northrop....was brought in from to "damage control" the case. That was really early on. What's the deal. It's like it's a little colony of Aruba's corruption. I'm not convinced that has anything to do with the crime itself, but handling the crime brought it in.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Buckeye on July 08, 2006, 12:48:20 PM
Quote from: "Shizaru"
Quote from: "Buckeye"
Maybe they are telling the truth.  They did drop Natalee and Joran by the Marriot beach...they just forgot to mention they also dropped off Deepak.  Then they met up with Freddy (who might have been with Guido or GVC).  Then they went to Jorans in Freddy's car or Satish got a ride home.

I can't see Joran heading to the beach where one of the 100+ MB students could have been hanging or walking around.


The area north of the Mariott and just south of the FH is about 1000 yards from the HI, or about a 5 minute walk.  At that time of nite it is dark and deserted.  Not much chance of any of her classmates being there.


With over a hundred kids....would you take the chance???


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: BTgirl on July 08, 2006, 12:48:54 PM
Quote from: "JuJu"
Quote from: "BTgirl"
Hi monkeys.

I'm back for a couple of minutes and trying to get a timeline straight in my head.

1)The guys took a drugged Natalee to the VDS residence and raped her.
2)They put her in the car to take her to the beach and leave her.
3)Before they drive away from the VDS residence, Natalee manages to call Beth.
4)The guys get Natalee to the beach and "something bad happens."
5)Natalee bleeds in the car, then manages to get out of the car.
6)She clambers around the rocks while trying to escape and bleeds on them.
7)At some point Natalee dies.
8)The coverup begins


If we buy this as a possible timeline, and we assume that the 8 1/2 minute phone call was Joran/K2 transmitting a porn video of Natalee being raped, when during the timeline did the transmission occur? Would anyone have thought to transmit a porn video while trying to deal with a body?

What do you think?


I think it is close to the truth.  I have missed much along the way.  Was there an 81/2 min. call or a porn video, is this a fact?


There was an 8 1/2 minute call of some sort, and there has been speculation that it was transmission of a video of Natalee being raped. If it were indeed a video transmission, I'm trying to fit that into the proposed timeline we've discussed this morning.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Ono on July 08, 2006, 12:50:33 PM
Quote from: "San"
Quote from: "klaasend"

http://www.diarioaruba.com/diasabra/noticia/news4.html

I could be wrong but it looks like more money trouble in Aruba.  I believe this article is saying the Visibility Team in the Arikok Park is out of money.

Gee what happened to the extra security they were working on (as per Julia Renfro :roll: )

Or is this another cheap excuse to get the GVC family off the island by saying business is bad and we have to close down.


Looks like to me they're getting out while the "gettin' is good" ~


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: crazybabyborg on July 08, 2006, 12:51:05 PM
Quote from: "Shizaru"
Quote from: "crazybabyborg"
Shizaru wrote:
Any theory that has all 3 present when she was injured or died isn't viable. It's clear from the polis car tapes that at least one member of the trio doesn't know what happened to her. If they all knew and none of them suspected they were being taped, there would have been no reason for them to all act like they didn't know. And if 2 or 3 of them knew and one of those 2 or 3 suspected they were being taped, he would have said something to alert the other(s), so they didn't say anything incriminating.


Yes. And Deepak said, "Freddy has to tell the truth".


But then Joran responded with something like "You know Freddy has told the truth".  So my take on the mention of Freddy on the tape is that 2K suspected (or were pretending to suspect) Freddy of some involvement, but didn't know it for certain.


Well healthy debate is good for discovering the truth. I take it differently. I think Joran is far more warned by Daddy that conversations might be recorded, and he redirects Deepak by that statement. If you look at the exchange in context, Joran switches the subject after making that statement.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: JuJu on July 08, 2006, 12:51:07 PM
Thanks BT!  I am just trying to sort through what is fact from fiction and rumor.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: BTgirl on July 08, 2006, 12:53:12 PM
Quote from: "JuJu"
Thanks BT!  I am just trying to sort through what is fact from fiction and rumor.


Aren't we all, JuJu, aren't we all? :wink:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: BTgirl on July 08, 2006, 12:57:34 PM
Has anyone seen Easywriter lately?

I got an e-mail from him while I was at work yesterday morninig, but was in a bunch of meetings and didn't get to answer it for several hours. I never heard back from him and don't remember seeing him here yesterday or today.

Just wanted to make sure he is still in the land of the living. :wink:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: crazybabyborg on July 08, 2006, 12:59:58 PM
OK, somebody guide me through my mud here, please. When did the phone call to Beth from Nat supposedly take place............I'm sorry, but I'd love to know that occured for a fact, and that voice analysis nails that down, and that call is accepted fact by Beth and Dave. Then, when did the 8.5 minute conversation/download between Deepak and Joran take place? We know that happened.

I'm begging anyone who can get through to Art tonight to ask about that call. Is it a fact, and do Dave and Beth accept it as such. Has it been authenticated so as to be able to use in court?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: klaasend on July 08, 2006, 01:02:00 PM
SHIZARU - here is a photo I found in webshots of the beach at the Fisherman's Huts.  Looks like there are little reefs out there:


(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e82/klaasend2/fishhutbeach.jpg)


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Ono on July 08, 2006, 01:18:36 PM
Quote from: "crazybabyborg"
Shizaru wrote:
Any theory that has all 3 present when she was injured or died isn't viable. It's clear from the polis car tapes that at least one member of the trio doesn't know what happened to her. If they all knew and none of them suspected they were being taped, there would have been no reason for them to all act like they didn't know. And if 2 or 3 of them knew and one of those 2 or 3 suspected they were being taped, he would have said something to alert the other(s), so they didn't say anything incriminating.


Yes. And Deepak said, "Freddy has to tell the truth".


If Paulus saw the need to hire an attorney for Freddy, then Freddy is in it up to his eyeballs.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: tcumom on July 08, 2006, 01:21:30 PM
Are we still interested in the ATM machines/PVS that late night/early morning?
Should we ask Art about that, or are we just leaving those questions for another day?

Any ideas?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: beachwego on July 08, 2006, 01:24:57 PM
Quote from: "BTgirl"
Hi monkeys.

I'm back for a couple of minutes and trying to get a timeline straight in my head.

1)The guys took a drugged Natalee to the VDS residence and raped her.
2)They put her in the car to take her to the beach and leave her.
3)Before they drive away from the VDS residence, Natalee manages to call Beth.
4)The guys get Natalee to the beach and "something bad happens."
5)Natalee bleeds in the car, then manages to get out of the car.
6)She clambers around the rocks while trying to escape and bleeds on them.
7)At some point Natalee dies.
8)The coverup begins.


If we buy this as a possible timeline, and we assume that the 8 1/2 minute phone call was Joran/K2 transmitting a porn video of Natalee being raped, when during the timeline did the transmission occur? Would anyone have thought to transmit a porn video while trying to deal with a body?

What do you think?


What times do we have for the calls?  I believe there were 3 from Joran to Deepak, weren't there?   Without having that information on hand, my first thoughts would be the sensible one....that the transmission would occur either during the rape or immediately after ....but trying to fit it in with what we have heard from Joran...perhaps it occurred during the latter time when Joran says he went home and viewed porn before going to sleep...as that could be the lie mingled with the truth.  

But, then, how do we know the times we have are accurate?  Haven't we heard they were "tinkered" with?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Kat_Gram on July 08, 2006, 01:28:45 PM
Quote from: "Buckeye"
It would be telling if Paulus hired attornies for Joran, Deepak and Freddy at the onset.

Paulus  " arranged ' for attorney for the Kalpoes. Deepak stated in
the Skeeters tape that they could have had our version of the court appointed attorneys, but they wanted " better " representation.
Don't know if that was after they were arrested or when it became obvious that something like that was going to happen.
Art had said that Freddy's lawyer was obtained by Paulus. That also was right at the beginning. Freddy was questioned and I believe he is the one who Anita and Paulus had the conversation with after Freddy was questioned. That came from Karin J. They wanted to know what Freddy had said to the police. There were not any charges against Freddy or Jaime in relation to Natalee.
.
Guido Guido Guido. Why / What is his role in this ?
We know very little how he got into this and why Gerard Spong
was his lawyer right from the get go. Guido was questioned on Aruba. Guido was questioned in Holland and then was delared a suspect in February and then arrested recently.
If he was just a worker in the casino that Sunday night and was just with Joran and a group playing poker the Monday evening ( until what time  ? ) why such a high powered lawyer ?  
And Guido was flying under the radar ( the public radar ) on this one for a long time.
JQK had some sort of statments b/c in one of them, he said that Guido's name was all over the statments.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: beachwego on July 08, 2006, 01:30:56 PM
Quote from: "tcumom"
Are we still interested in the ATM machines/PVS that late night/early morning?
Should we ask Art about that, or are we just leaving those questions for another day?

Any ideas?


I think it would be important to find out if it is even true...and where it fits in the timeline if it is.  Probably no one better to ask than Art.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: crazybabyborg on July 08, 2006, 01:31:15 PM
I'm ready to stand corrected, but it seems to me that Freddy was most likely at Joran's when JK2 returned to Joran's with Natalee. The 4 boys participate in rape/video/and possibly murder at Joran's apt. I'm not sure she was killed at the apt.  Freddy and Joran, for sure, left in Deepak's car ( has to be his car because of the blood), to drop her off somewhere or dispose of her. I don't think Deepak and Satish were both present to take on that chore. Maybe one of them, maybe neither of them. In the car, if she were still alive, she comes around and attempts escape and they kill her, thus blood in the car. Blood would also be in the car if they had killed her at Joran's. I think they take her to the rocks near the lighthouse to dispose of the body, and put her in a shallow grave. Later, Joran tells Paulus out of fear, and he gets involved in covering up the events.
I'm not sure Deepak and Satish knew she was dead at first. They say adamently in the van, "We were protecting YOU!" "YOU would do 15 years if the truth came out". "Freddy has to tell the truth"..........I'm just thinking out loud here.

OK, what have I missed?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: klaasend on July 08, 2006, 01:36:43 PM
Quote from: "BTgirl"
Has anyone seen Easywriter lately?

I got an e-mail from him while I was at work yesterday morninig, but was in a bunch of meetings and didn't get to answer it for several hours. I never heard back from him and don't remember seeing him here yesterday or today.

Just wanted to make sure he is still in the land of the living. :wink:


Easywriter posted this morning in the "good morning Jerry" thread, lol  :lol:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: beachwego on July 08, 2006, 01:38:26 PM
Quote from: "klaasend"
SHIZARU - here is a photo I found in webshots of the beach at the Fisherman's Huts.  Looks like there are little reefs out there:


(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e82/klaasend2/fishhutbeach.jpg)



For those that may not know, the darker areas are where the water is deeper..so the light areas would be where the reefs are as the water is shallow there...

It's a great picture, Klaasend....thank you!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: crazybabyborg on July 08, 2006, 01:40:13 PM
Again, just thinking out loud............
"Freddy has to tell the truth" comes out in regard to Paulus, after Deepak seems to be admonishing Joran for involving Paulus. Maybe Joran returns and tells K2 that Freddy killed her. Or maybe he doesn't tell them that she's dead at all, but got hurt, and that he let Freddy drop her off while he waited in the car. Maybe Joran never admits to them that he killed her. They would still be implicated because of what happened at the apartment and because they participated in drugging her for rape/filming purposes. That would be enough for them to concoct the HI story, face ALE and Beth and Jug the next night, follow Paulus's advice, and sit in jail all summer.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Sleuth on July 08, 2006, 01:46:29 PM
ToTheBeachWeGo is correct - those darker areas are not reefs.   When I think of a reef I think of something I can climb or stand on, etc.   Not true with anything in the photo above  - but is is a nice photo  :wink:

BTW, hello monkeys


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: crazybabyborg on July 08, 2006, 01:47:41 PM
Quote from: "Sleuth"
ToTheBeachWeGo is correct - those darker areas are not reefs.   When I think of a reef I think of something I can climb or stand on, etc.   Not true with anything in the photo above  - but is is a nice photo  :wink:

BTW, hello monkeys


Hiya, Sleuth! How are you this fine day?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: beachwego on July 08, 2006, 01:54:10 PM
Quote from: "Buckeye"
Quote from: "Shizaru"
Quote from: "Buckeye"
Maybe they are telling the truth.  They did drop Natalee and Joran by the Marriot beach...they just forgot to mention they also dropped off Deepak.  Then they met up with Freddy (who might have been with Guido or GVC).  Then they went to Jorans in Freddy's car or Satish got a ride home.

I can't see Joran heading to the beach where one of the 100+ MB students could have been hanging or walking around.


The area north of the Mariott and just south of the FH is about 1000 yards from the HI, or about a 5 minute walk.  At that time of nite it is dark and deserted.  Not much chance of any of her classmates being there.


With over a hundred kids....would you take the chance???


In addition to that, it was the last night of the Soul Beach Festival....bringing more people out along the beach before leaving.   Didn't we hear that many arrived in boats and they were lined along the shore?  True, they may have all left by that time of night...but I think its doubtful they would choose that area for the events we have been discussing.  Perhaps so if it was just an innocent, romantic interlude between two young kids that have just met ...but nothing we have learned leads me in that direction...


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Nut44x4 on July 08, 2006, 01:55:22 PM
Ken Thomas - The Winkler murder investigation is suppose to be on tonight too.....so Art won't have a full hour.  :cry: He needs more time!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: crazybabyborg on July 08, 2006, 02:09:31 PM
What do we know:

1) Joran's shoe/shoes were lost and it's a problem. He lies about the size, gives explanations, etc. SO.........Joran participated in the crime and was there at the disposal of the body.
2)  Freddy's in the van conversation from the first seconds. Melody said he spent the night with Joran that night, Assist. prosecutor resigned because ALE wouldn't pursue him, KJ has allowed him to be overlooked. Freddy's family must be one of power and fear. Paulus hires a lawyer for him. Deepak believes if Freddy tells the truth, Paulus will be cleared. SO.........Freddy is in this up to his eyeballs. The implications are that Freddy participated in the rape and the cover-up in the crime. Some indications that he was videotaping.
3) There is blood in Deepak's car. Oduber, and a police officer Art spoke with, confirm that. Deepak is seen scouring it. SO............Natalee was killed in Deepak's car, or placed, bleeding, in Deepak's car.
4) The rocks. Dave sees a frantic police car at that location and wonders if Nat's body has been found. Do we know there is blood there? The painting explanation is lame. The story of the kid's body there is weird. SO...............HELP me here, somebody, please?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: JuJu on July 08, 2006, 02:10:01 PM
Quote from: "Ono"
Quote from: "crazybabyborg"
Tyler; I know what you mean. That had a profound effect on me at the time. It was the first time in my life that I ever felt the depths of evil that some who share this planet can sink into. Even now, I shiver at the thought. Nuff said, I'll get off that! God Bless and keep us all!


Me too...I couldn't believe my ears.  :shock:



What are ya'll talking about?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Sleuth on July 08, 2006, 02:10:05 PM
Quote from: "crazybabyborg"
 Hiya, Sleuth! How are you this fine day?


I'm good, and you?

Like my sig, I've been going back and rechecking earlier details...


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Sleuth on July 08, 2006, 02:12:32 PM
Quote from: "beachwego"

In addition to that, it was the last night of the Soul Beach Festival....bringing more people out along the beach before leaving.   Didn't we hear that many arrived in boats and they were lined along the shore?  True, they may have all left by that time of night...but I think its doubtful they would choose that area for the events we have been discussing.  Perhaps so if it was just an innocent, romantic interlude between two young kids that have just met ...but nothing we have learned leads me in that direction...


If my memory is correct, the Soul Beach Festival event that night was not in that area - it was on the other side of O'Stadt entirely...  I could go back and check if important...


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: crazybabyborg on July 08, 2006, 02:14:34 PM
Quote from: "JuJu"
Quote from: "Ono"
Quote from: "crazybabyborg"
Tyler; I know what you mean. That had a profound effect on me at the time. It was the first time in my life that I ever felt the depths of evil that some who share this planet can sink into. Even now, I shiver at the thought. Nuff said, I'll get off that! God Bless and keep us all!


Me too...I couldn't believe my ears.  :shock:



What are ya'll talking about?


A snuff film discussed on one of the Dr. Phil shows that had Beth on. They were discussing the possibility of Nat being sold in the sex slave trade. A girl in the trade had gotten too old to be in demand, and her captors drove a nail in her forhead and filmed her being raped as she died.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: JuJu on July 08, 2006, 02:16:29 PM
Quote from: "crazybabyborg"
Quote from: "JuJu"
Quote from: "Ono"
Quote from: "crazybabyborg"
Tyler; I know what you mean. That had a profound effect on me at the time. It was the first time in my life that I ever felt the depths of evil that some who share this planet can sink into. Even now, I shiver at the thought. Nuff said, I'll get off that! God Bless and keep us all!


Me too...I couldn't believe my ears.  :shock:



What are ya'll talking about?


A snuff film discussed on one of the Dr. Phil shows that had Beth on. They were discussing the possibility of Nat being sold in the sex slave trade. A girl in the trade had gotten too old to be in demand, and her captors drove a nail in her forhead and filmed her being raped as she died.



I'm sorry I asked.  I have seen the movie 8MM with Nick Cage.  It is the most distrubing thing I have ever seen.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: JuJu on July 08, 2006, 02:17:13 PM
sorry, I can't spell today


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Sleuth on July 08, 2006, 02:17:56 PM
I did go back and check - events that night were at Club Havana Beach - that is south of Oranjestad (airport side).


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Jerry from Ohio on July 08, 2006, 02:19:38 PM
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "BTgirl"
Has anyone seen Easywriter lately?

I got an e-mail from him while I was at work yesterday morninig, but was in a bunch of meetings and didn't get to answer it for several hours. I never heard back from him and don't remember seeing him here yesterday or today.

Just wanted to make sure he is still in the land of the living. :wink:


Easywriter posted this morning in the "good morning Jerry" thread, lol  :lol:


   YUP  and  later this year  Easy and I are going to go BullRiden !!   Makes the old feel like young men right Easy ?  ROFLMAO  

  GOOD LORD !!  Geesh We will have to fly Klaass and a few others out to come help us  back to the infirmery tent  where is where they usually take you befor the Ambulance gets there LOL  
   Heck if Easy and I rode  in our conditions  our  insurence  companys  would just laugh at us  as  the Hospital Lady asked  will this  be cash or charge  ?   ROFL
   Does Medicare cover  "Stuck on Stupid"  ?? LOL  :shock:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Shizaru on July 08, 2006, 02:19:56 PM
Quote from: "beachwego"
Quote from: "klaasend"
SHIZARU - here is a photo I found in webshots of the beach at the Fisherman's Huts.  Looks like there are little reefs out there:


(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e82/klaasend2/fishhutbeach.jpg)



For those that may not know, the darker areas are where the water is deeper..so the light areas would be where the reefs are as the water is shallow there...

It's a great picture, Klaasend....thank you!


If the light water is the shallow area then in this photo it looks like the shallows extend for hundreds of yards  (don't know how to just copy the photo):

http://member.telpacific.com.au/rolyroper/NataleeHolloway/page07.htm


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Nut44x4 on July 08, 2006, 02:21:29 PM
Just to let you all know......Snuff Films do exist...for those who have enough money to pay to view them. It is NOT a hoax, nor is it an Urban Legend. They do exist out there and more so now that the internet is with us. I first heard of these films way back in 1987...before internet. They are out there and they are real. I have never seen one because I could never watch anything like that...I do not even atch regular porn, lol....but I know peeps who have seen them.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: beachwego on July 08, 2006, 02:22:36 PM
Quote from: "Sleuth"
Quote from: "beachwego"

In addition to that, it was the last night of the Soul Beach Festival....bringing more people out along the beach before leaving.   Didn't we hear that many arrived in boats and they were lined along the shore?  True, they may have all left by that time of night...but I think its doubtful they would choose that area for the events we have been discussing.  Perhaps so if it was just an innocent, romantic interlude between two young kids that have just met ...but nothing we have learned leads me in that direction...


If my memory is correct, the Soul Beach Festival event that night was not in that area - it was on the other side of O'Stadt entirely...  I could go back and check if important...


It's not important to me...I only mentioned it because it would indicate more people were on the island....and I thought that their boats were possibly moored there.   Just trying to bring out reasons that Joran may not choose that area for a sexual encounter....but I am good with what I think, although others may want to know more.  I apologize for posting incorrect information though.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: crazybabyborg on July 08, 2006, 02:23:54 PM
JuJu wrote:
I'm sorry I asked. I have seen the movie 8MM with Nick Cage. It is the most distrubing thing I have ever seen.


Yeah, I saw it too and had your same reaction. Maybe I shouldn't have answered. Sorry.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on July 08, 2006, 02:25:36 PM
Hello, all.

Regarding Sleuth's post regarding reefs, I can say that the NJ shore points have some beaches where sandbars allow the swimmers to walk out very far, especially at low tide.  These sandbars may end abruptly with a dip, then resurface.  Lifeguards monitor the bathers who venture too far out where the currents become stronger.  The same occurs on the bay side, where channels are used by local boaters.  I, too, thought reefs as rocky ledges under the surface of the water.

A reef, however, by definition can be interpreted as a sandbar, in my opinion.  (according to Merriam-Webster)

Main Entry: 3reef
Function: noun
Etymology: Dutch rif, from Middle Dutch, from Old Norse, literally rib; akin to Old English ribb rib -- more at RIB
1 a : a chain of rocks or coral or a ridge of sand at or near the surface of water -- compare ATOLL, BARRIER REEF b : a hazardous obstruction


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: JuJu on July 08, 2006, 02:26:46 PM
Quote from: "crazybabyborg"
JuJu wrote:
I'm sorry I asked. I have seen the movie 8MM with Nick Cage. It is the most distrubing thing I have ever seen.


Yeah, I saw it too and had your same reaction. Maybe I shouldn't have answered. Sorry.


no apology needed, I asked


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Sleuth on July 08, 2006, 02:27:25 PM
Interesting commentary in regards to tourism in 2005...found this along with my Soul Beach Festival stuff.  I wonder if Edison Briesen and Myrna Jansen would say the same after the 2006 event...

The Aruba Tourism Authority is a host sponsor of the music extravaganza. Minister of Tourism and Transport Edison Briesen said, "Aruba is proud to host the Soul Beach Music Festival for the sixth year as this year's line-up is remarkably talented." For years, his office has worked closely with American producer Mark Adkins, raking in sizeable returns for the island as well as tourism sales and marketing all across the US.

"We are very proud that our island has fared well in 2005 in the wake of what was a challenging year for tourism," said Managing Director for the Aruba Tourism Authority (ATA) Myrna Jansen. The ATA reported a healthy 2005 with total numbers at 732,514 reflecting an increase of 4000 travelers over the year previous. From the US alone, some 532,352 arrived representing over 1000 (or .2 percent) additional guests over 2004 figures. The US market, the biggest for the island, represents 72.7 percent of the island's total market share. Repeat visitors have constantly registered a 40 percent rate. Memorial Day reported occupancies from 90-100 percen all across Aruba.

In return, Adkins who was given the Ambassador of Goodwill plaque for his efforts in promoting Aruba, said: "Once again, Aruba has embraced the 6th Annual Soul Beach Music Festival by providing a remarkable venue, an attractive setting, as well as gathering place for new and old acquaintances to unite. Vacationers experience the best of what Aruba has to offer in the way of tourism and hospitality." Adkins engineered the entire four months of sales blitz across many states penetrating R&B markets via radio, print, TV (Black Enterprise SETAR and VH1 Soul) and live events from East to West Coast.

Briesen added, "We have a lot of events. This is just one of the special events that generate general traffic. In the line of attracting diversified markets, this is one good and activity. We do receive guests from this event since launching it in the '90s." Soul Beach ups the tourism ante with results clearly reflected on the US market count. Traffic does not only come from North America but also from non-traditional markets where the event is not directly pitched to. Next on the calendar is the 5th Annual Aruba Music Festival on Columbus Day weekend, made electric by the world famous rock and roll bands.

" It is encouraging to see this big number of tourists who have traveled here safely. Through the years since 1995 of doing this as the sort of Caribbean Music ambassador, I am happy to see that we inspire. Spirit of soul music is all about collective consciousness. At the time when the negativity has the microphone and speakers, soul music can show positivity will prevail over negativity. In the end, hope prevails over pessimism," enthused Adkins.

Source (http://www.blackbeachweek.com/inpresarsoul.html)


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: beachwego on July 08, 2006, 02:31:58 PM
Quote from: "Jerry from Ohio"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "BTgirl"
Has anyone seen Easywriter lately?

I got an e-mail from him while I was at work yesterday morninig, but was in a bunch of meetings and didn't get to answer it for several hours. I never heard back from him and don't remember seeing him here yesterday or today.

Just wanted to make sure he is still in the land of the living. :wink:


Easywriter posted this morning in the "good morning Jerry" thread, lol  :lol:


   YUP  and  later this year  Easy and I are going to go BullRiden !!   Makes the old feel like young men right Easy ?  ROFLMAO  

  GOOD LORD !!  Geesh We will have to fly Klaass and a few others out to come help us  back to the infirmery tent  where is where they usually take you befor the Ambulance gets there LOL  
   Heck if Easy and I rode  in our conditions  our  insurence  companys  would just laugh at us  as  the Hospital Lady asked  will this  be cash or charge  ?   ROFL
   Does Medicare cover  "Stuck on Stupid"  ?? LOL  :shock:


Hey Jerry!

You guys better not be doing any bullridin!!!

I love your picture...its cool!!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Sleuth on July 08, 2006, 02:32:14 PM
Quote from: "2NJSons_Mom"
Hello, all.

Regarding Sleuth's post regarding reefs, I can say that the NJ shore points have some beaches where sandbars allow the swimmers to walk out very far, especially at low tide.  These sandbars may end abruptly with a dip, then resurface.  Lifeguards monitor the bathers who venture too far out where the currents become stronger.  The same occurs on the bay side, where channels are used by local boaters.  I, too, thought reefs as rocky ledges under the surface of the water.

A reef, however, by definition can be interpreted as a sandbar, in my opinion.  (according to Merriam-Webster)

Main Entry: 3reef
Function: noun
Etymology: Dutch rif, from Middle Dutch, from Old Norse, literally rib; akin to Old English ribb rib -- more at RIB
1 a : a chain of rocks or coral or a ridge of sand at or near the surface of water -- compare ATOLL, BARRIER REEF b : a hazardous obstruction


2NJ - I'm not saying that reefs need to be rocky ledges - I indicated that IMO reefs are something that you can climb or stand on, which would include sandbars.  

I've seen reefs that are rock ledges, coral, and sandbars.  I've also been to the location in the photo, and it is that which is the basis of  my comment that those are not reefs.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Nut44x4 on July 08, 2006, 02:33:04 PM
Quote from: "crazybabyborg"
JuJu wrote:
I'm sorry I asked. I have seen the movie 8MM with Nick Cage. It is the most distrubing thing I have ever seen.


Yeah, I saw it too and had your same reaction. Maybe I shouldn't have answered. Sorry.


I have always been  fascinated with serial killer types. Even so far back to Helter Skelter....I was facinated with it all and I was just  KID at the time, female, no less. I watch all forensic shows and to this day am fascinated with true crime and the serial killer, in general. It all blows my mind as to how these freaks work'. I am not saying that Joran/friends/suspects are serial killers, because I don't think they have graduated that far to call it that...but so many characteristics are there, it is damn scary.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Sleuth on July 08, 2006, 02:35:22 PM
Quote from: "beachwego"

It's not important to me...I only mentioned it because it would indicate more people were on the island....and I thought that their boats were possibly moored there.   Just trying to bring out reasons that Joran may not choose that area for a sexual encounter....but I am good with what I think, although others may want to know more.  I apologize for posting incorrect information though.



One thing is that there is a very popular beach bar (restaurant also but the bar scene goes much later than the restaurant) that is about the closest busy night-time spot on the beach in the area.   Always active at night..


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Jerry from Ohio on July 08, 2006, 02:36:42 PM
Quote from: "JuJu"
Quote from: "crazybabyborg"
Quote from: "JuJu"
Quote from: "Ono"
Quote from: "crazybabyborg"
Tyler; I know what you mean. That had a profound effect on me at the time. It was the first time in my life that I ever felt the depths of evil that some who share this planet can sink into. Even now, I shiver at the thought. Nuff said, I'll get off that! God Bless and keep us all!


Me too...I couldn't believe my ears.  :shock:



What are ya'll talking about?


A snuff film discussed on one of the Dr. Phil shows that had Beth on. They were discussing the possibility of Nat being sold in the sex slave trade. A girl in the trade had gotten too old to be in demand, and her captors drove a nail in her forhead and filmed her being raped as she died.



I'm sorry I asked.  I have seen the movie 8MM with Nick Cage.  It is the most distrubing thing I have ever seen.

*************************************************
  About Snuff films  taken frome snopes .com
 I believe they are Urban Legands,   Jerry  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Claim:   Films are routinely made for distribution in which participants are murdered on camera.
Status:   False.
Origins:   All  
the fretting about it aside, not so much as one snuff film has been found. Time and again, what is originally decried in the press as a film of a murder turns out, upon further investigation, to be a fake. Police on three continents routinely investigate films brought to them, and so far this has always been their verdict. No snuff films. Some clever fakes, yes. But no real product.

(Al Goldstein, publisher of Screw magazine, has a standing offer of $1 million for anyone who can come up with a commercially sold snuff film. That offer has been in place for years. No one has yet laid claim to it.)

It's not enough to fear there might be one snuff film out there; the belief runs strong that a large creation and distribution network is in operation, with children and young people routinely kidnapped then killed while the cameras roll to meet demand and the films of same circulated through this underground to connoisseurs of the genre.

The prurience of human nature being what it is, it's not unreasonable to assume if the films existed, there would be those willing to pay to have them. This assumption lies at the heart of the belief that the distribution network is in place. However, fears that a market for such offerings exists are unfounded; even if the market did exist, the product to satisfy it is not there. Hence, there's no market.

Each of the following four elements contributes to the belief that snuff films exist:


Society's fascination with gore has led filmmakers to experiment with how realistic they can make a horror scene. This has led to the creation of some incredible fakes, including the infamous Flower of Flesh and Blood of the "Guinea Pig" series.

Numerous compilation films in which death scenes -- both real and staged -- exist. Of these, the Faces of Death series is the most widely known.

A number of horror films use as their premise the making of a snuff film or the discovery of same.

Rumors about various serial killers videotaping the last moments of their victims abound. (In an extension of the serial killer rumor, some claim these films subsequently found their way into the marketplace.)
What with all of these elements being interwoven into the fabric of current society as tightly as they are, it's close to impossible for any rational person to conclude snuff films don't exist. Offhand references to them pop up everywhere. Indeed, the genre for this group of videos even has a name, one we casually invoke the same way we would speak of "horror" films or "romantic comedies" --could something we speak of so confidently be a chimera?

And yet, that is exactly the case.

Capturing a murder on film would be foolhardy at best. Only the most deranged would consider preserving for a jury a perfect video record of a crime he could go to the executioner for. Even if he stays completely out of the camera's way, too much of who the killer is, how the murder was carried out, and where it took place would be part of such a film, and these details would quickly lead police to the right door. Though someone whose mania has caused him to lose touch with reality might skip over this point, those who are supposedly in the business for the money would be all too aware of this. It doesn't make sense to flirt with the electric chair for the profits derived from a video.

Let's start by defining the term and locating its origin, then move on to examine some high-profile films often believed to contain snuff footage, and finish with an examination of the serial killers "souvenir of the kill" angle.

Definition of the Term:   As to what is or is not a snuff film, according to Kerekes and Slater, authors of Killing for Culture, the bible on the snuff film rumor:


Snuff films depict the killing of a human being -- a human sacrifice (without the aid of special effects or other trickery) perpetuated for the medium of film and circulated amongst a jaded few for the purpose of entertainment.
It's a simple definition, but a workable one.

Some will further claim that a profit motive must exist, that the final product has to be offered for sale (as opposed to being passed around without charge within a select circle, or remaining solely in the possession of its maker). That detail is extraneous. It's the recording of the death itself which constitutes the "snuff" in snuff films, not who makes a buck out of it. Likewise, claims that the filmmaker must have had no other motivation than the production of the film should be dismissed. A psychopath who tortures and murders solely to satisfy his personal demons but who videotapes the event to create a reliveable record of the experience has produced a snuff film.

Origin of the Term:   Unbelievably, the term was coined during the furor arising from the Manson Family murders of 1969.

On 9 August 1969, Sharon Tate and four others were butchered by members of Charles Manson's "Family." The next night, a married couple in a neighborhood far distant from that of the Tate residence were slaughtered in a similar fashion by the same group. Manson and four of his followers were brought to trial in June, 1970, found guilty of the murders, and sentenced to die. Their sentences were later commuted to life in prison when the death penalty was abolished in 1972. Reinstatement of the death penalty in 1977 did not affect the revised sentences as re-sentencing them (or any of the other inmates whose death sentences had been commuted to life during the "no death penalty" phase) to the original penalty was deemed "cruel and unusual." Manson and his group are still in prison.

Numerous books were written about the Family, their practices, and the murders they took part in. The best known is Vincent Bugliosi's 1974 Helter Skelter. However, it is towards Ed Sanders' 1971 The Family: The Story of Charles Manson's Dune Buggy Attack Battalion to which we turn. In it, Sanders relates that the Family may have been involved in the making of "brutality" (or as he later terms them, "snuff") films. This was the first recorded use of the term.

Pausing for a moment to deal with the rumor raised about Manson and snuff films, Family members stole an NBC-TV truck loaded with film equipment sometime during the summer of 1969. The truck was later dumped and most of the film given away, but Manson kept one of the NBC cameras. The Family were also said to be in possession of three Super-8 cameras and to have used them to make homegrown porn films. The snuff film allegation comes from Sander's interview with an anonymous one-time member of the Family in which Sanders hears about a "short movie depicting a female victim dead on a beach."


ANON: I, I, I knew, I know, I only know about one snuff movie. I, uh, you know --
SANDERS: Which snuff movie do you know about?
ANON: I just know like a young chick maybe about 27, short hair... yeah... and chopped her head off, that was . . .
SANDERS: What did the girl look like? What was the scenario?
ANON: What was what?
SANDERS: What was the scenario? Was she tied up? Did she look willing?
ANON: She was dead. She was just lying there.
SANDERS: She was already dead?
ANON: Yeah. Legs spread, uh. She was nude but nobody was f***ing her. They said her head was just chopped off and she was just laying there.

(At this point the interviewee acknowledged he hadn't actually seen the film himself but was instead relating a story he'd heard.)

From this fanciful beginning, the term "snuff" came to be used to identify films of this nature.

As for Manson and the NBC camera, police seized the last of the stolen equipment -- consisting of a camera loaded with unexposed film -- during a 10 October 1969 raid on Spahn Ranch. In later editions of The Family, Sanders admits no films depicting actual murder or murder victims has surfaced. A 1984 film called Family Movies is sometimes mistaken for home movies of the Family, but all of characters are friends of the director, John Aes-Nihil.

The First "Snuff" Film:   In 1976 the movie Snuff caused a tremendous stir when the word on the street got out that an actual film depicting the on-screen murder of an actress had been smuggled into the States from South America, and this was it. Widely-believed hype aside, the film's origin was much more mundane. Snuff was a product of Monarch Releasing Corporation and had been filmed in Argentina in 1971 as Slaughter, a film about bad girls, motorcycles and bad guys. Slaughter was so ineptly made as to be unreleasable. Five years later, the head of Monarch breathed new life into this terrible piece by splicing on five minutes of additional footage, releasing it as Snuff, and spreading the word this was an actual snuff film.

People were horrified, sickened, titillated, outraged . . . and they went to see it, shelling out the ticket price without argument.

Faces of Death:   Possibly the most famous of all films pointed to as "snuff" is the Faces Of Death series, a sequence of six videos made up of footage of accidents, suicides, autopsies, and executions, liberally peppered with outright fakes scenes. Most of the actual death scenes shown in these films are of the post-death variety. The multiple camera angles give away the acted-out nature of many of the most compelling scenes.

Guinea Pig:   Early in 1991, a film of Asian origin rumored to contain actual snuff footage came into the possession of actor Charlie Sheen. Sheen turned it over to the FBI, quite convinced he'd stumbled onto the real thing, and heartily sickened by what he'd seen.

The film in question was Flower of Flesh and Blood, part of a series of films collectively known as "Guinea Pig." Some of the "Guinea Pig" films have at least temporarily fooled the authorities, fueling news stories about the unearthing of snuff films. It's no wonder either; the special effects are very cleverly executed. Flower of Flesh and Blood is the episode which stirs much of the controversy. It features a samurai torturing, then dismembering a captive girl until she eventually expires in front of the cameras.

It wasn't real. According to The San Francisco Chronicle:


The FBI confiscated Sheen's tape and proceeded to investigate all involved, including Charles Balun, an early distributor of the film. Balun fiercely asserted that the film was a hoax and was merely a series of startling special effects. Propitiously, the Japanese took this time to release ''Guinea Pig Two: The Making of Guinea Pig One,'' revealing the technical sleight of hand in all its bone-cracking glory. After viewing this film, the FBI backed off and dropped the investigation.
In a stunning display of bad taste, this film was shown on San Francisco's public access channel in October 1996.

Serial Killers:   As serial killers are apprehended and brought to trial, it is not uncommon for the "snuff film rumor" to surface about the murders they committed. Perhaps these whispers are born of an attempt to explain the inexplicable, to make some sense of that which is beyond the abilities of most of us to grasp. It's at least a motive we've a chance of understanding.

Almost every time the rumor arises, there's utterly nothing to it other than the public's attempt to make sense of a monster. Rumors spring up, swirl around for a while, then disappear as the evidence to support them fails to materialize and the public's fevered imagination is captured by newer, more horrific events.

Yet every now and then, there's at least a little bit of fire lurking beneath all that generated smoke. Such is the case with the murders committed by Charles Ng and Leonard Lake and with those perpetuated by Paul Bernardo (aka Paul Teale) and Karla Homolka. For both of those murderous pairings, videotape of the victims featured prominently, both in the investigations and at trial. Not videotapes of the murders though -- videotape of the victims while they were still alive.

One other deadly pair deserves mention: Lawrence Bittaker and Roy Norris. You'll soon see why.

Serial Killers -- Lake and Ng:   In northern California, during a span of eight months in 1984 and 1985, Leonard Lake and Charles Ng murdered more victims than the police can even now properly count up. Next to the cabin Lake lived in, seven bodies and 45 pounds of bones and ash scattered across a 2-acre Calaveras County compound were discovered. More bodies were uncovered over time, but the police don't believe they've found all of them. They conservatively estimate the pair's body count at upwards of 20 victims.

Lake and Ng kidnapped women and held them as sexual slaves before murdering them. Men who got in the way or children the women had with them were murdered outright.

Lake committed suicide in 1985 shortly after being arrested on suspicion of shoplifting. After fleeing to Canada and finally being extradited from there, in 1999 Ng stood trial in Orange County, California, for 12 of those murders and was found guilty of 11 of them. His trial has just entered the penalty phase.

Videotape of Ng interacting with two of the women subsequently butchered by the pair was introduced at his trial. In one he's seen releasing Kathleen Allen from her bonds while Lake (off-camera) demands, "Undress for us. We want to see what we bought." In another, Ng is seen using a large knife to cut the bra off Brenda O'Connor, then dispassionately telling her, "Nothing is yours now. It'll be totally ours."

Though there is no doubt about the eventual fate of these women, it doesn't take place on camera. All rumors to the contrary, no film exists of Lake or Ng killing anyone.

Serial Killers -- Bernardo and Homolka:   As serial killers, Paul Bernardo and Karla Homolka can be considered less depraved than Lake and Ng only in so far as they didn't murder nearly as many. And that is about the most charitable thing that can be said of them. They too were monsters.

In 1991 in southern Ontario (Canada), this husband-and-wife team kidnapped, kept as a sex slave, then two weeks later murdered 14-year-old Leslie Mahaffy. In 1992, they abducted 15-year-old Kristen French, kept her for the same purpose for one week, then likewise ended her life.

Videotape of French being raped at knifepoint and Mahaffy being assaulted while blindfolded and with her hands cuffed behind her back were shown to the jury during Bernardo's trial. Bernardo is also seen urinating on French and attempting to defecate on her. However, as with Lake and Ng, there's no film of either murder.

Predating the deaths of French and Mahaffy, the pair had taken the life of another young victim, Homolka's 15-year-old sister, Tammy Lyn. On Christmas Eve 1990 and as her Christmas present to her then-boyfriend, Homolka drugged the girl with animal tranquilizers, making it possible for Bernardo to rape her at leisure. The child never regained consciousness. She choked on her own vomit and died that night.

Videotape of the rape exists. The audio portions of it were played for the jury during Bernardo's trial. The video portion was omitted -- the judge deemed it too terrible to be viewed in the courtroom.

In 1993, for her part in all three murders, Homolka was sentenced to 12 years behind bars. Bernardo was sentenced to life in 1995.

Serial Killers -- Bittaker and Norris:   In 1979 Lawrence Bittaker and Roy Norris bought, then made over a 1977 silver GMC cargo van to facilitate the kidnapping of young girls in southern California. The two men had met in prison and there discovered a common interest -- raping and killing teenage girls.

The following is a list of their victims and dates of death:


24 June 1979 -- Cindy Schaeffer (16 years old)

8 July 1979 -- Andrea Joy Hall (18 years old)

3 September 1979 -- Jackie Gilliam (15 years old)

3 September 1979 -- Leah Lamp (13 years old)

31 October 1979 -- Shirley Ledford (16 years old)
All were picked up while hitchhiking. The van ("Murder Mac," as christened by Bittaker) was used to transport the first four girls to a remote area of the San Gabriel mountains where the rapes and murders took place. Their final victim, Shirley Ledford, was raped, sodomized, tortured, and killed in the van during a two-hour drive through the San Fernando Valley. It is the audio recording made during that ride that is the closest thing in existence to a snuff film -- though the tape is only 18 minutes long and ends well before the girl is killed, it's definitely from that brief and fatal encounter.

In return for his cooperation and testimony against Bittaker, the prosecution agreed not to seek the death penalty or life imprisonment without parole for Norris. He was sentenced to 45 years to life and is eligible for parole in 2010. Bittaker was tried by jury, and on 17 February 1981 convicted on 26 charges of rape, torture, kidnapping, and murder. He was sentenced to die and now sits on death row in a California prison. In 1996 Bittaker sued the state, claiming he'd been subjected to cruel and unusual punishment because he'd been served broken cookies and soggy sandwiches while in the care of its penal system.

Conclusion:   When it comes to snuff films, it's easy to be romanced by what appears in the press into believing verifiable examples of the genre are out there. Time and again, however, what was ballyhooed as the seizure of a cache of snuff films turns out to be the netting of fakes like the Flower of Flesh and Blood tape or compilation films of the Faces of Death ilk. These aren't snuff films . . . but you rarely see members of the press taking pains to make this point clear, thus leaving the general public with the idea that tapes of such murders abound.

Likewise, anyone who claims to have participated in the making or distribution of a snuff film gets his day in the papers. That the videos fail to turn up might net a tiny followup on a far distant date, but even then not on anything approaching the scale on which the original "Suspect Claims He Was Part of a Snuff Film Ring!" articles were emblazoned across the front page.

The world being full of depraved individuals is used as justification for believing in the snuff film fallacy. That it could happen is translated in the minds of many to it must have happened. Somewhere. At some time. We just haven't found the film yet.

The rumor about snuff films has been with us since the early 1970s. In close to 30 years, not one of those films has surfaced. When tempted to believe this rumor, keep that fact close to your heart. Remind yourself -- again and again, if you have to -- that nothing ever comes of these investigations.

It's possible the unthinkable did come close to happening at one time. In 1989, two Virginia men were arrested by the FBI after broadcasting on a computer bulletin board their plans to kidnap a randomly-selected boy, molest, then kill him for a pornographic snuff film. Daniel Depew and Dean Lambey were picked up, tried, and thrown in jail for hatching this plot, with Depew sentenced to 33 years behind bars, and Lambey to 30.

Would they have carried out the scheme? It's hard to say now -- their defense maintained all their chatter was nothing but a sick fantasy the men aired, not something they would have acted on. The judge (needless to say in light of those sentences) thought different.

The only snuff films proven to exist involve animals. In 1998, nine "squish" videos were seized by Scottish police and their distributor arrested. These videos showed scantily-clad women crushing under their high heels an assortment of small animals, including frogs, mice, insects, and a snail. Authorities say the same items have been available in Britain since 1996.

Driving to the heart of the matter and pushing aside for the moment all the fakes and movies about movies, it's the activities of serial killers which come closest to mimicking the snuff film bogeyman. In some instances, videotape does exist of murderers torturing victims they would later kill off-camera. Some day it's possible all of a murder will turn up on such a tape. Even so, purists will tend to dismiss this footage because it does not conform to an overly-strict definition involving the necessity for a profit motive. If these snippets of film are to be dismissed, it should be for an entirely different reason.

Fear of a thriving snuff film industry is what drives this popular myth. As a society, we're not all that concerned with the concept of serial killers walking among us, killing here and there, because no one thinks of himself or his loved ones as potential serial murder victims. In our naivete, we still equate being selected as a sicko's prey with the victim either having done something to bring it on or not being bright enough to tell something was wrong with the guy. (We hang onto the comforting yet nutty idea we'd be able to recognize such a monster a mile away.) Being beyond reproach ourselves (we'd never do anything to rile such a maniac) and quite brilliant about recognizing serial killers, we don't live in fear of the sex-crazed or hears-voices-in-his-head crazy -- clearly, he won't come after us.

However, we do fear the notion of a "murder as a business" set-up because that takes the slavering maniac right out of the picture and in his place substitutes the Reasonable Man Out To Make a Buck. Victims of such a scheme could be undeserving (innocent) -- this could happen to us! And it is on the back of this fear belief in the myth rides in on.

We fear not the killers among us, but the businessmen.

Barbara "fortune (hunters) 500" Mikkelson

Last updated:   27 February 1999
 



The URL for this page is http://www.snopes.com/horrors/madmen/snuff.htm


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Shizaru on July 08, 2006, 02:36:44 PM
Quote from: "2NJSons_Mom"
Hello, all.

Regarding Sleuth's post regarding reefs, I can say that the NJ shore points have some beaches where sandbars allow the swimmers to walk out very far, especially at low tide.  These sandbars may end abruptly with a dip, then resurface.  Lifeguards monitor the bathers who venture too far out where the currents become stronger.  The same occurs on the bay side, where channels are used by local boaters.  I, too, thought reefs as rocky ledges under the surface of the water.

A reef, however, by definition can be interpreted as a sandbar, in my opinion.  (according to Merriam-Webster)

Main Entry: 3reef
Function: noun
Etymology: Dutch rif, from Middle Dutch, from Old Norse, literally rib; akin to Old English ribb rib -- more at RIB
1 a : a chain of rocks or coral or a ridge of sand at or near the surface of water -- compare ATOLL, BARRIER REEF b : a hazardous obstruction


Was tide high or low on M beach at 2:00 am that morning?

Are there any webshots of people standing in the water that give some idea of how far out Joran could have waded with Natalee?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Sleuth on July 08, 2006, 02:42:08 PM
BeachWeGo - I reread your post, and just wanted to let you know that I didn't think of anything you said as incorrect, and The Soul Beach Festival does bring people to Aruba.  I just remember the Club Havana location, that is all.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Nut44x4 on July 08, 2006, 02:48:17 PM
I also rely on 'snopes' to give me info for certain things. Snuff films DO EXIST...it is not a hoax, it is not a lie....sorry, but much to my dismay, I have to say snopes is wrong if they say 'snuff films' are false. Think about it.....how much is out there online w/ porn and crap...nothing is impossible nowadays. Anyway.....I don't think Nats demise went that far...not sure yet how far it went, but I would say NO to that. Maybe someday someone involved will speak the real truth. Other than that, I do not see this case getting solved.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: JuJu on July 08, 2006, 02:50:24 PM
Joran did say that some day he would tell what happened


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: JuJu on July 08, 2006, 02:51:33 PM
did Taco or anyone dispute that Paulus was in the casino video?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: beachwego on July 08, 2006, 02:52:50 PM
Quote from: "Sleuth"
BeachWeGo - I reread your post, and just wanted to let you know that I didn't think of anything you said as incorrect, and The Soul Beach Festival does bring people to Aruba.  I just remember the Club Havana location, that is all.



Thanks, Sleuth.  It was kind of you to answer and I appreciate it.  :)


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: JuJu on July 08, 2006, 02:53:49 PM
from World Jourier

On September 19, 2005, when BETH was asked if the “Excelsior Casino” owner POSNER had threatened BETH, BETH stated to "CNN,” “Well, there was a phone call made. And it was just really having me refer to—you know, I’d only mentioned the fact I had gotten from prosecuting attorney as far as the open line of credit, and that Joran is in his casino gambling, and I don’t think there was ever a question that Joran and Current Suspect P. SLOOT had been in that Excelsior Casino, and, particularly, on the night of the 29th where he and his father met Natalee.”


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: JuJu on July 08, 2006, 02:55:24 PM
sorry meant to highlight the last  sentences

he and his father met Natalee.”


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on July 08, 2006, 03:07:34 PM
Sleuth, trying this again...last one had an error.  (Server?)  I did not intend my post to sound negative in any way.  I just wanted to relay what I thought a reef was versus a sandbar.  Also, forgot that you are more widely travelled than I.   :oops:

Fell behind due to MIL phone call.... :roll:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Buckeye on July 08, 2006, 03:10:05 PM
CBB

Just read your fact list.  I believe the Asst. Prosecutor resigned over KOEN not being interogated. I don't remember any comments about Freddy and her.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: crazybabyborg on July 08, 2006, 03:14:39 PM
Quote from: "Nut44x4"
I also rely on 'snopes' to give me info for certain things. Snuff films DO EXIST...it is not a hoax, it is not a lie....sorry, but much to my dismay, I have to say snopes is wrong if they say 'snuff films' are false. Think about it.....how much is out there online w/ porn and crap...nothing is impossible nowadays. Anyway.....I don't think Nats demise went that far...not sure yet how far it went, but I would say NO to that. Maybe someday someone involved will speak the real truth. Other than that, I do not see this case getting solved.


I don't know the truth of snuff films. I want to believe they don't exist. I hate that the topic is even remotely connected to possibilities in this case. It came up around speculation of a video's worth if her death were caught on film.

As far as the incident on Dr. Phil. I just relayed what was reported there.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Sleuth on July 08, 2006, 03:14:46 PM
Quote from: "JuJu"
Joran did say that some day he would tell what happened


But, was this a lie or the truth.  And if he tells, will you believe it..


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: crazybabyborg on July 08, 2006, 03:16:55 PM
Quote from: "Buckeye"
CBB

Just read your fact list.  I believe the Asst. Prosecutor resigned over KOEN not being interogated. I don't remember any comments about Freddy and her.


And ............you would be right, Buckeye. Thanks for the correction.  :wink:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: JuJu on July 08, 2006, 03:21:20 PM
i am surfing a little to help remember when Freddy came into the picture, can one of you guy help bring me up tp date


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: WidgetTheMidget on July 08, 2006, 03:26:37 PM
Quote from: "Shizaru"
Quote from: "beachwego"
Quote from: "klaasend"
SHIZARU - here is a photo I found in webshots of the beach at the Fisherman's Huts.  Looks like there are little reefs out there:


(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e82/klaasend2/fishhutbeach.jpg)



For those that may not know, the darker areas are where the water is deeper..so the light areas would be where the reefs are as the water is shallow there...

It's a great picture, Klaasend....thank you!


If the light water is the shallow area then in this photo it looks like the shallows extend for hundreds of yards  (don't know how to just copy the photo):

http://member.telpacific.com.au/rolyroper/NataleeHolloway/page07.htm


Heard Back When That Jorans Feet Were Beat Up ............

Walking Over Coral Will Do That .............

 :roll:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: WidgetTheMidget on July 08, 2006, 03:28:13 PM
Quote from: "JuJu"
sorry meant to highlight the last  sentences

he and his father met Natalee.”


It Seems Beth Got A Real Good Look At The Casino Tape .............

 :roll:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Sleuth on July 08, 2006, 03:35:38 PM
Hey Widget is here - how are those precious little girls?


I'm hoping that Beth and Dave have seen the casino video in its entirety..


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: WidgetTheMidget on July 08, 2006, 03:42:06 PM
Quote from: "Sleuth"
Hey Widget is here - how are those precious little girls?


I'm hoping that Beth and Dave have seen the casino video in its entirety..


Hi Sleuth ..........

There Doing Great ...............School Is On Vacation For Another Week ..

They Are Helping Pick The Early Harvest ..........

 :wink:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: crazybabyborg on July 08, 2006, 03:45:57 PM
Quote from: "JuJu"
i am surfing a little to help remember when Freddy came into the picture, can one of you guy help bring me up tp date


Well since I confused Koen and Freddy, you can have absolute confidence in my 2 cents.  :lol:

Melody said that Freddy spent the night with Joran the night Nat went missing. Joran said he had called a friend to go C&Cs, but that he was working. There's speculation it was Freddy that he called. The picture of the 3 boys, Jk2, that is probably the most published.......the one with Joran in the middle, Satish to his right, holding a drink, and Deepak to his left, has been cropped to cut out Freddy. Freddy is to Deepak's left. Freddy's name comes up within seconds in the police van relative to their circumsatnces. Deepak says Freddy must tell the truth. Paulus's arrest is the topic, and Joran states Freddy has told the truth and redirects the subject. Freddy was questioned in regard to internet video porn. Paulus hired a lawyer for him. That's what I know about Freddy.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Sleuth on July 08, 2006, 03:49:18 PM
Quote from: "WidgetTheMidget"
Quote from: "Sleuth"
Hey Widget is here - how are those precious little girls?


I'm hoping that Beth and Dave have seen the casino video in its entirety..


Hi Sleuth ..........

There Doing Great ...............School Is On Vacation For Another Week ..

They Are Helping Pick The Early Harvest ..........

 :wink:


Every time I pick up a bag of Starbucks beans I always look if there are Costa Rica beans included and think of you.   Are the early harvest beans milder or bolder (is that even a proper comparison?)


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: WidgetTheMidget on July 08, 2006, 03:52:53 PM
Quote from: "Sleuth"
Quote from: "WidgetTheMidget"
Quote from: "Sleuth"
Hey Widget is here - how are those precious little girls?


I'm hoping that Beth and Dave have seen the casino video in its entirety..


Hi Sleuth ..........

There Doing Great ...............School Is On Vacation For Another Week ..

They Are Helping Pick The Early Harvest ..........

 :wink:


Every time I pick up a bag of Starbucks beans I always look if there are Costa Rica beans included and think of you.   Are the early harvest beans milder or bolder (is that even a proper comparison?)


First Round Is A Pain In The Butt ...........

You Have To Pick Individually As Not To Disturb The Green Beans ........

We Have A Robust Crop This Year Thanks To The Early Rains .......

Green Beans Make Coffee Bitter ...........

 8)


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Sleuth on July 08, 2006, 04:01:41 PM
Widget - you really ought to team up with Red and sell some of those beans in the Monkey store...


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: spooky112483 on July 08, 2006, 04:01:55 PM
Deepak said "Freddy better tell the truth"
Joran said "you know very well Freddy has told the truth"
Told the truth about what? and why would Deepak want this truth told?
Was the truth that they where filming a rape for whoever Freddy works for? Now in the USA a smart criminal would not admitt to rape because "he made me do it" but remember who we are dealing with here. They think that by pushing off the entire inccident onto whoever Freddy works for by saying "they wanted the video tape" it exonorates (sp) them.
and maybe it just did exonorate them.  Tell the truth Freddy. Tell them who you were working for.

Hi monkeys just lurking from work!!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Sleuth on July 08, 2006, 04:18:20 PM
Hi Spooky - good to see ya.  

I'm heading out though - have some project to do before it rains here... :wink:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: SunFreak2 on July 08, 2006, 05:03:30 PM
I'm still a few pages back, but wanted to share my theory of that evening.

THEORY

J2K and Natalee leave CnC's.
Satish is dropped at his home.
Joran, Deepak pick Freddy up.  Natalee is not succumbing to the drugs yet, so they take a drive out by the lighthouse.  Natalee jumps out of the car (it is going slow b/c of the rough roads and Deepak's low riding suspension).  A chase ensues and Natalee falls into the rocks striking her head.  There are superficial cuts which bleed profusely, but unknown to them Natalee is bleeding within her skull too. They place Natalee in the backseat, where blood gets on the seat & headliner of the car.
They stop at the pond to wash her blood off.  Joran takes off his shoes to wash them, but when they are seen by the gardener, they panic and leave without them.
They carry Natalee into Joran's apt to film the sexual encounter. Deepak is freaking about the blood in his car, so he leaves to go home and clean his car.  This leaves just Joran & Freddy. Natalee is passing in & out of consciousness b/c of her head wound, the drugs & alcohol.  They both rape her while filming it.  While Joran & Freddy are viewing the tape and sending it to Deepak, Natalee makes her phone call(s).  Joran catches her in the act, and in anger strikes her, and she falls unconcious.  Joran can tell she is hurt very badly and runs for Daddy's help.  Paulus takes a wait-n-see attitude b/c he does not want to answer any questions if he takes her for medical help.  Unfortunately, the bleeding in her brain from the fall at the rocks causes her death. Later that morning, Joran is dropped off for school (whether driven to the bus stop or all the way to ISA).   Paulus also takes Freddy home but tells him to come back in the afternoon when Joran is thru with school.

Paulus deals with Natalee's dispostion, therefore the boys have no idea what happened to her. When Anita comes home, she finds out about it, and Joran is forced to turn over Natalee's underwear that he saved as a souvenir.  Or maybe Joran told Paulus that Nat wasn't wearing any, but Anita found them when scouring Joran's room.

This scenario doesn't include Guido as I don't believe he directly participated. He may have been involved after the fact (when he was supposed to be playing tennis with Joran the next day).  Perhaps Joran told him what happened, and KJ was trying to force him to talk by implicating him as an accessory to it.  Joran confiding in Guido could make Guido very scared, and his family retained Sprong b/c of what Guido knows rather than for him participating in the crime.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: JuJu on July 08, 2006, 05:13:01 PM
What's the story about Anita and the underwear?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on July 08, 2006, 05:29:30 PM
What about Guido's quad/ATV?  It was suggested he had one.  They could have borrowed it to move Natalee, and he could have known, or not have known what they needed it for.  Just thinking....

I also reread their taped conversation in the police car for the 5th or more time....no divine intervention turning on a light in my brain, sad to say.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on July 08, 2006, 05:31:40 PM
Quote from: "JuJu"
What's the story about Anita and the underwear?


Anita described them in one of the interviews...I think with Greta & Beth...I'd have to check to be sure....


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: spooky112483 on July 08, 2006, 05:32:06 PM
Quote from: "Nut44x4"
I also rely on 'snopes' to give me info for certain things. Snuff films DO EXIST...it is not a hoax, it is not a lie....sorry, but much to my dismay, I have to say snopes is wrong if they say 'snuff films' are false. Think about it.....how much is out there online w/ porn and crap...nothing is impossible nowadays. Anyway.....I don't think Nats demise went that far...not sure yet how far it went, but I would say NO to that. Maybe someday someone involved will speak the real truth. Other than that, I do not see this case getting solved.


I have read all that snopes stuff before too and I still believe snuff films DO exist. nothing will change my mind. i just think that anything our little minds can think of has happened at some time somewhere. but i dont know if this case has anything to do with snuff. could they have filmed a rape? sure. could she have died on camera? sure. would Freddy have known would he had? sure. could there be a tape out there somewhere? sure. but it's just another theory in the stack. now excuse me while i go throw up


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: JuJu on July 08, 2006, 05:35:10 PM
Quote from: "2NJSons_Mom"
Quote from: "JuJu"
What's the story about Anita and the underwear?


Anita described them in one of the interviews...I think with Greta & Beth...I'd have to check to be sure....


did she find them in the house?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: spooky112483 on July 08, 2006, 05:41:48 PM
Quote from: "JuJu"
Quote from: "2NJSons_Mom"
Quote from: "JuJu"
What's the story about Anita and the underwear?


Anita described them in one of the interviews...I think with Greta & Beth...I'd have to check to be sure....


did she find them in the house?


errr, now I'm having a brain fart! greta said that anita described the, basically, sex between Natalee and Joran that Joran had told to Anita. But where did we come up with Anita desrcibing her underwear? I just dont remember the origin of this for some reason or it being said on greta.
somebody knock me up side the head!!!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: klaasend on July 08, 2006, 05:45:01 PM
FYI - I just missed this:

Big story.. compares JVDS to American terrorist

They had a pic up of an american terrorist, they are looking for... david someoen...didnt get the name.

Julie Banderas says "He looks like joran van der sloot"  :wink:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Jacqueline on July 08, 2006, 05:46:01 PM
Quote from: "JuJu"
Quote from: "2NJSons_Mom"
Quote from: "JuJu"
What's the story about Anita and the underwear?


Anita described them in one of the interviews...I think with Greta & Beth...I'd have to check to be sure....


did she find them in the house?


I thought it was mentioned when Beth and Greta had the sit down at the VDS house.  I recall that Greta seemed a little perplexed that Anita went into detail about natalee's undergarments.  

I honestly don't remember how it came up in the conversation, but I thought Anita was speaking of the underwear , from what Joran had told her.  

Could be wrong.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: JuJu on July 08, 2006, 05:48:33 PM
JMO.....but my guess would be that she found them in the house...I mean seriously I raised 3 boys and I can't imagine them talking to me about a girls underwear.  I am pretty open mined and they have told me things I really could have lived without knowing....lol


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on July 08, 2006, 05:51:22 PM
Spooky & JuJu, that's why I had the feeble disclaimer that 'I'd have to check to be sure'....I've been searching and have not found it.  It could have been a carry over of a post from elsewhere...but I was thinking it was related to AVDS's description of the sexual activity...but it might have been JVDS....too much theory/speculation in a year, and my brain may have more than a fart moment.

If I find it, I'll post it...if someone else doesn't beat me to it.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: San on July 08, 2006, 05:54:03 PM
Quote from: "Jacqueline"
Quote from: "JuJu"
Quote from: "2NJSons_Mom"
Quote from: "JuJu"
What's the story about Anita and the underwear?

Anita described them in one of the interviews...I think with Greta & Beth...I'd have to check to be sure....

did she find them in the house?

I thought it was mentioned when Beth and Greta had the sit down at the VDS house.  I recall that Greta seemed a little perplexed that Anita went into detail about natalee's undergarments.  

I honestly don't remember how it came up in the conversation, but I thought Anita was speaking of the underwear , from what Joran had told her.  

Could be wrong.

Yes Anita went into detail so much so that Greta wanted to crawl under the table.  Now if we were to ask Anita questions about that conversation she would say she never said that because if she did say it happened it would be considered a sexual assault against Natalee.  According to Joran they only cuddled on the beach :roll:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: spooky112483 on July 08, 2006, 05:54:28 PM
Quote from: "klaasend"
FYI - I just missed this:

Big story.. compares JVDS to American terrorist

They had a pic up of an american terrorist, they are looking for... david someoen...didnt get the name.

Julie Banderas says "He looks like joran van der sloot"  :wink:

 :lol:  :lol:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on July 08, 2006, 05:55:03 PM
Thanks, Jacqueline...now, I don't feel so bad.  I remember it...just can't prove it.

A Jersey girl to the rescue...how'e the shore?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: San on July 08, 2006, 05:56:47 PM
Quote from: "spooky112483"

errr, now I'm having a brain fart! greta said that anita described the, basically, sex between Natalee and Joran that Joran had told to Anita. But where did we come up with Anita desrcibing her underwear? I just dont remember the origin of this for some reason or it being said on greta.
somebody knock me up side the head!!!

The underwear description came from one of Joran's statements that Beth has in her possession.  I never heard Anita speak of underwear.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on July 08, 2006, 05:58:32 PM
San, exactly what I was recalling...thank you, too.  AVDS said a lot of things early on...some of which was on tape, with her crying...


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on July 08, 2006, 06:00:11 PM
Gotta go for a bit...see you in a while.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Easywriter on July 08, 2006, 06:05:14 PM
Anything new happening today??????


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: spooky112483 on July 08, 2006, 06:06:11 PM
Quote from: "2NJSons_Mom"
Spooky & JuJu, that's why I had the feeble disclaimer that 'I'd have to check to be sure'....I've been searching and have not found it.  It could have been a carry over of a post from elsewhere...but I was thinking it was related to AVDS's description of the sexual activity...but it might have been JVDS....too much theory/speculation in a year, and my brain may have more than a fart moment.

If I find it, I'll post it...if someone else doesn't beat me to it.


oh yes I know and thanks for looking. it just struck me that i'd been taking this as fact that anita described underwear and now i cant remember where it came from and when i started thinking it was fact. like you said just too much info over a year.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: JuJu on July 08, 2006, 06:07:51 PM
He Easy, people were looking for you today


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: spooky112483 on July 08, 2006, 06:08:15 PM
Quote from: "San"
Quote from: "spooky112483"

errr, now I'm having a brain fart! greta said that anita described the, basically, sex between Natalee and Joran that Joran had told to Anita. But where did we come up with Anita desrcibing her underwear? I just dont remember the origin of this for some reason or it being said on greta.
somebody knock me up side the head!!!

The underwear description came from one of Joran's statements that Beth has in her possession.  I never heard Anita speak of underwear.

ah ha! yes that is the way i remember it. and anita desribed the "sex" to greta and beth.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Jacqueline on July 08, 2006, 06:12:17 PM
Quote from: "2NJSons_Mom"
Thanks, Jacqueline...now, I don't feel so bad.  I remember it...just can't prove it.

A Jersey girl to the rescue...how'e the shore?


Oh my Gawd water was beautiful 68 degrees....

heading back tomorrow !


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Easywriter on July 08, 2006, 06:12:19 PM
Quote from: "JuJu"
He Easy, people were looking for you today


Why?  What did I do now?  :shock:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: JuJu on July 08, 2006, 06:16:42 PM
lol...nothing bad, they were just missing you


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: spooky112483 on July 08, 2006, 06:17:34 PM
Quote from: "Jacqueline"
Quote from: "2NJSons_Mom"
Thanks, Jacqueline...now, I don't feel so bad.  I remember it...just can't prove it.

A Jersey girl to the rescue...how'e the shore?


Oh my Gawd water was beautiful 68 degrees....

heading back tomorrow !


Hey Jacque I haven't had the opportunity to tell you I was so happy to hear about Uncle Mike!! That is such great news but I hate that he had to go through all of that


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: ldstlou on July 08, 2006, 06:20:23 PM
Quote from: "San"
Quote from: "Jacqueline"
Quote from: "JuJu"
Quote from: "2NJSons_Mom"
Quote from: "JuJu"
What's the story about Anita and the underwear?

Anita described them in one of the interviews...I think with Greta & Beth...I'd have to check to be sure....

did she find them in the house?

I thought it was mentioned when Beth and Greta had the sit down at the VDS house.  I recall that Greta seemed a little perplexed that Anita went into detail about natalee's undergarments.  

I honestly don't remember how it came up in the conversation, but I thought Anita was speaking of the underwear , from what Joran had told her.  

Could be wrong.

Yes Anita went into detail so much so that Greta wanted to crawl under the table.  Now if we were to ask Anita questions about that conversation she would say she never said that because if she did say it happened it would be considered a sexual assault against Natalee.  According to Joran they only cuddled on the beach :roll:


Hey Guys!! catching up..but this really ticks me off!! If Greta was there when Anita talked GRAPHICALLY about what Joran did to Natalee...so graphic she wanted to crawl under the table...how in the he-- could she ever say she "tends to believe him"?!  SHE WAS THERE!!!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Jacqueline on July 08, 2006, 06:21:58 PM
Quote from: "spooky112483"
Quote from: "Jacqueline"
Quote from: "2NJSons_Mom"
Thanks, Jacqueline...now, I don't feel so bad.  I remember it...just can't prove it.

A Jersey girl to the rescue...how'e the shore?


Oh my Gawd water was beautiful 68 degrees....

heading back tomorrow !


Hey Jacque I haven't had the opportunity to tell you I was so happy to hear about Uncle Mike!! That is such great news but I hate that he had to go through all of that


Oh thanks Spooky!!!

I hate that it happened too, but he is homeward bound now and all is good! :lol:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: BTgirl on July 08, 2006, 06:22:30 PM
Quote from: "Easywriter"
Quote from: "JuJu"
He Easy, people were looking for you today


Why?  What did I do now?  :shock:


It was just me. I hadn't seen you around today and wanted to make sure you were still alive.

When people get to be our age, that kind of thing is always iffy. :lol:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Jacqueline on July 08, 2006, 06:23:47 PM
Quote from: "BTgirl"
Quote from: "Easywriter"
Quote from: "JuJu"
He Easy, people were looking for you today


Why?  What did I do now?  :shock:


It was just me. I hadn't seen you around today and wanted to make sure you were still alive.

When people get to be our age, that kind of thing is always iffy. :lol:


Hope the migrane is better BT.

And don't kid anyone here....you are a sweet young thang! :wink:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Easywriter on July 08, 2006, 06:24:21 PM
Anyone going to listen to Art Wood tonight?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Shizaru on July 08, 2006, 06:25:59 PM
My understanding is that close to the shore along Palm beach the current runs north, with the Panama bound current usually starting at around 1000 meters out.  The dummes placed in the water at less than that distance all drifted back to shore.  I recall reading somewhere that objects tend to wash ashore along either end of the island, where there are eddys.  So I think if Joran had waded/swum Natalee's body out 100 or 200 meters from roughly the spot where he says he left her, she would have been carried north and then probably would have washed ashore somewhere along Arashi beach near the lighthouse.  Maybe that is why he changed his story about having gone to the lighthouse, he realized she might wash up there and therefore did not want to place himself in that vicinity.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Easywriter on July 08, 2006, 06:25:59 PM
Quote from: "BTgirl"
Quote from: "Easywriter"
Quote from: "JuJu"
He Easy, people were looking for you today


Why?  What did I do now?  :shock:


It was just me. I hadn't seen you around today and wanted to make sure you were still alive.

When people get to be our age, that kind of thing is always iffy. :lol:


Wellllll, I did sleep off and on all day, but I think I am still breathin'!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: ldstlou on July 08, 2006, 06:26:12 PM
Quote from: "Easywriter"
Anyone going to listen to Art Wood tonight?


have to paint...and still no time to get my spakers fixed...could someone summarize so I can read when I get home at all hours of the night covered w/ paint! haha :shock:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Sleuth on July 08, 2006, 06:26:21 PM
Quote from: "Easywriter"
Anyone going to listen to Art Wood tonight?


Approx. 100% of us   :lol:

Hello Easy - hope to hear your voice tonight....

Gotta run and finish dinner, but hello monkeys!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: mishy on July 08, 2006, 06:28:50 PM
Hi Mmonkeys, what's up? Been trying to repair problems on my computer today and get my router reinstalled...No success on any of it!! Does anybody have any tips? If so, please email me....

Also, Klaas you have email...


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: BTgirl on July 08, 2006, 06:28:54 PM
Quote from: "Jacqueline"
Quote from: "BTgirl"
Quote from: "Easywriter"
Quote from: "JuJu"
He Easy, people were looking for you today


Why?  What did I do now?  :shock:


It was just me. I hadn't seen you around today and wanted to make sure you were still alive.

When people get to be our age, that kind of thing is always iffy. :lol:


Hope the migrane is better BT.

And don't kid anyone here....you are a sweet young thang! :wink:


It's better, thanks Jacqueline.

And thanks for lying about my age for me. Keep saying that to people and maybe they'll start to believe it. :lol:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: beachwego on July 08, 2006, 06:30:19 PM
Quote from: "San"
Quote from: "spooky112483"

errr, now I'm having a brain fart! greta said that anita described the, basically, sex between Natalee and Joran that Joran had told to Anita. But where did we come up with Anita desrcibing her underwear? I just dont remember the origin of this for some reason or it being said on greta.
somebody knock me up side the head!!!

The underwear description came from one of Joran's statements that Beth has in her possession.  I never heard Anita speak of underwear.



Hi y'all... I'm back for a lil bit.  It doesnt look like we've moved too fast today.

I just wanted to say that what San says is what I remember about the underwear.  I have never heard Anita speak of it.  Also, I thought Greta was embarrassed by Anita re-telling what Joran had told her of the (insert here the Dutch word for anything from cuddling to fondling or more) that took place between him and Natalee.   WHAT WAS THAT WORD?  It generated so much discussion & now I can't think of it at all!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: ldstlou on July 08, 2006, 06:30:32 PM
Quote from: "SunFreak2"
I'm still a few pages back, but wanted to share my theory of that evening.

THEORY

J2K and Natalee leave CnC's.
Satish is dropped at his home.
Joran, Deepak pick Freddy up.  Natalee is not succumbing to the drugs yet, so they take a drive out by the lighthouse.  Natalee jumps out of the car (it is going slow b/c of the rough roads and Deepak's low riding suspension).  A chase ensues and Natalee falls into the rocks striking her head.  There are superficial cuts which bleed profusely, but unknown to them Natalee is bleeding within her skull too. They place Natalee in the backseat, where blood gets on the seat & headliner of the car.
They stop at the pond to wash her blood off.  Joran takes off his shoes to wash them, but when they are seen by the gardener, they panic and leave without them.
They carry Natalee into Joran's apt to film the sexual encounter. Deepak is freaking about the blood in his car, so he leaves to go home and clean his car.  This leaves just Joran & Freddy. Natalee is passing in & out of consciousness b/c of her head wound, the drugs & alcohol.  They both rape her while filming it.  While Joran & Freddy are viewing the tape and sending it to Deepak, Natalee makes her phone call(s).  Joran catches her in the act, and in anger strikes her, and she falls unconcious.  Joran can tell she is hurt very badly and runs for Daddy's help.  Paulus takes a wait-n-see attitude b/c he does not want to answer any questions if he takes her for medical help.  Unfortunately, the bleeding in her brain from the fall at the rocks causes her death. Later that morning, Joran is dropped off for school (whether driven to the bus stop or all the way to ISA).   Paulus also takes Freddy home but tells him to come back in the afternoon when Joran is thru with school.

Paulus deals with Natalee's dispostion, therefore the boys have no idea what happened to her. When Anita comes home, she finds out about it, and Joran is forced to turn over Natalee's underwear that he saved as a souvenir.  Or maybe Joran told Paulus that Nat wasn't wearing any, but Anita found them when scouring Joran's room.

This scenario doesn't include Guido as I don't believe he directly participated. He may have been involved after the fact (when he was supposed to be playing tennis with Joran the next day).  Perhaps Joran told him what happened, and KJ was trying to force him to talk by implicating him as an accessory to it.  Joran confiding in Guido could make Guido very scared, and his family retained Sprong b/c of what Guido knows rather than for him participating in the crime.


Sun...so much of this rings true for me..but I think it needs a little fine tuning...such as..gardner saw them at pond at 2:30am and Natalee's call from Joran's was at 3am..not alot of time to get home and do anything. So mabe the filming was done in car or at lighthouse? Not sure if that's possible because of lighting.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: BTgirl on July 08, 2006, 06:30:38 PM
Quote from: "Easywriter"
Quote from: "BTgirl"
Quote from: "Easywriter"
Quote from: "JuJu"
He Easy, people were looking for you today


Why?  What did I do now?  :shock:


It was just me. I hadn't seen you around today and wanted to make sure you were still alive.

When people get to be our age, that kind of thing is always iffy. :lol:


Wellllll, I did sleep off and on all day, but I think I am still breathin'!


Glad to hear it! :D

And I have to admit to having a nap today myself. :wink:

Are your cold and fever gone now?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Easywriter on July 08, 2006, 06:31:01 PM
Quote from: "ldstlou"
Quote from: "Easywriter"
Anyone going to listen to Art Wood tonight?


have to paint...and still no time to get my spakers fixed...could someone summarize so I can read when I get home at all hours of the night covered w/ paint! haha :shock:


I was going to send you that joke the other day, but could not find your email in your profile.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: SunnyinTX on July 08, 2006, 06:31:17 PM
Quote from: "WidgetTheMidget"
Quote from: "JuJu"
sorry meant to highlight the last  sentences

he and his father met Natalee.”


It Seems Beth Got A Real Good Look At The Casino Tape .............

 :roll:


Hi Monks!!  Hi Widget!  I am positive there are still many, many things Beth knows.....but still doesn't feel like she can reveal ..as long as there is a chance for justice for Natalee......if/when she losses that hope...the Poop is gonna hit the fan!!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Jacqueline on July 08, 2006, 06:31:28 PM
Quote from: "BTgirl"
Quote from: "Jacqueline"
Quote from: "BTgirl"
Quote from: "Easywriter"
Quote from: "JuJu"
He Easy, people were looking for you today


Why?  What did I do now?  :shock:


It was just me. I hadn't seen you around today and wanted to make sure you were still alive.

When people get to be our age, that kind of thing is always iffy. :lol:


Hope the migrane is better BT.

And don't kid anyone here....you are a sweet young thang! :wink:


It's better, thanks Jacqueline.

And thanks for lying about my age for me. Keep saying that to people and maybe they'll start to believe it. :lol:


Baby you are cooler than alot of 30 year olds I know.

Just a number, Sugar....

(hey, are jersey girls suppose to talk like that.  I find myself saying Honey Hush too!    :lol:  :wink: )


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: ldstlou on July 08, 2006, 06:32:39 PM
Quote from: "Easywriter"
Quote from: "ldstlou"
Quote from: "Easywriter"
Anyone going to listen to Art Wood tonight?


have to paint...and still no time to get my spakers fixed...could someone summarize so I can read when I get home at all hours of the night covered w/ paint! haha :shock:


I was going to send you that joke the other day, but could not find your email in your profile.


oops...when I looked I saw it in there..help Klaas...did I do it right?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: BTgirl on July 08, 2006, 06:33:09 PM
Quote from: "Jacqueline"

Baby you are cooler than alot of 30 year olds I know.

Just a number, Sugar....

(hey, are jersey girls suppose to talk like that.  I find myself saying Honey Hush too!    :lol:  :wink: )


Awww....that makes me feel so good that my arthritic joints have almost stopped aching.

Smoochies.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: ldstlou on July 08, 2006, 06:33:53 PM
Quote from: "SunnyinTX"
Quote from: "WidgetTheMidget"
Quote from: "JuJu"
sorry meant to highlight the last  sentences

he and his father met Natalee.”


It Seems Beth Got A Real Good Look At The Casino Tape .............

 :roll:


Hi Monks!!  Hi Widget!  I am positive there are still many, many things Beth knows.....but still doesn't feel like she can reveal ..as long as there is a chance for justice for Natalee......if/when she losses that hope...the Poop is gonna hit the fan!!


I think you are correct...did anyone else pick up on this early on? That she said met both? Surprised me.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Easywriter on July 08, 2006, 06:34:46 PM
Quote from: "BTgirl"
Quote from: "Easywriter"
Quote from: "BTgirl"
Quote from: "Easywriter"
Quote from: "JuJu"
He Easy, people were looking for you today


Why?  What did I do now?  :shock:


It was just me. I hadn't seen you around today and wanted to make sure you were still alive.

When people get to be our age, that kind of thing is always iffy. :lol:


Wellllll, I did sleep off and on all day, but I think I am still breathin'!


Glad to hear it! :D

And I have to admit to having a nap today myself. :wink:

Are your cold and fever gone now?


I'm starting to think it is allergies.  Constant runny nose, sore throat into my ears and night sweats.  I might just be falling apart!  Might have to take some bonded medicine tonight! lol


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: SunnyinTX on July 08, 2006, 06:35:32 PM
Quote from: "San"
Quote from: "Jacqueline"
Quote from: "JuJu"
Quote from: "2NJSons_Mom"
Quote from: "JuJu"
What's the story about Anita and the underwear?

Anita described them in one of the interviews...I think with Greta & Beth...I'd have to check to be sure....

did she find them in the house?

I thought it was mentioned when Beth and Greta had the sit down at the VDS house.  I recall that Greta seemed a little perplexed that Anita went into detail about natalee's undergarments.  

I honestly don't remember how it came up in the conversation, but I thought Anita was speaking of the underwear , from what Joran had told her.  

Could be wrong.

Yes Anita went into detail so much so that Greta wanted to crawl under the table.  Now if we were to ask Anita questions about that conversation she would say she never said that because if she did say it happened it would be considered a sexual assault against Natalee.  According to Joran they only cuddled on the beach :roll:


I have never heard a teenage boy use the term cuddle....that word came from his mother's mouth to his!!  IMO


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: ldstlou on July 08, 2006, 06:35:47 PM
Quote from: "ldstlou"
Quote from: "SunFreak2"
I'm still a few pages back, but wanted to share my theory of that evening.

THEORY

J2K and Natalee leave CnC's.
Satish is dropped at his home.
Joran, Deepak pick Freddy up.  Natalee is not succumbing to the drugs yet, so they take a drive out by the lighthouse.  Natalee jumps out of the car (it is going slow b/c of the rough roads and Deepak's low riding suspension).  A chase ensues and Natalee falls into the rocks striking her head.  There are superficial cuts which bleed profusely, but unknown to them Natalee is bleeding within her skull too. They place Natalee in the backseat, where blood gets on the seat & headliner of the car.
They stop at the pond to wash her blood off.  Joran takes off his shoes to wash them, but when they are seen by the gardener, they panic and leave without them.
They carry Natalee into Joran's apt to film the sexual encounter. Deepak is freaking about the blood in his car, so he leaves to go home and clean his car.  This leaves just Joran & Freddy. Natalee is passing in & out of consciousness b/c of her head wound, the drugs & alcohol.  They both rape her while filming it.  While Joran & Freddy are viewing the tape and sending it to Deepak, Natalee makes her phone call(s).  Joran catches her in the act, and in anger strikes her, and she falls unconcious.  Joran can tell she is hurt very badly and runs for Daddy's help.  Paulus takes a wait-n-see attitude b/c he does not want to answer any questions if he takes her for medical help.  Unfortunately, the bleeding in her brain from the fall at the rocks causes her death. Later that morning, Joran is dropped off for school (whether driven to the bus stop or all the way to ISA).   Paulus also takes Freddy home but tells him to come back in the afternoon when Joran is thru with school.

Paulus deals with Natalee's dispostion, therefore the boys have no idea what happened to her. When Anita comes home, she finds out about it, and Joran is forced to turn over Natalee's underwear that he saved as a souvenir.  Or maybe Joran told Paulus that Nat wasn't wearing any, but Anita found them when scouring Joran's room.

This scenario doesn't include Guido as I don't believe he directly participated. He may have been involved after the fact (when he was supposed to be playing tennis with Joran the next day).  Perhaps Joran told him what happened, and KJ was trying to force him to talk by implicating him as an accessory to it.  Joran confiding in Guido could make Guido very scared, and his family retained Sprong b/c of what Guido knows rather than for him participating in the crime.


Sun...so much of this rings true for me..but I think it needs a little fine tuning...such as..gardner saw them at pond at 2:30am and Natalee's call from Joran's was at 3am..not alot of time to get home and do anything. So mabe the filming was done in car or at lighthouse? Not sure if that's possible because of lighting.


one more note...it just seemed to me that there were times that Deepak wasn't sure if she was dead..I think that was what I picked up in the Skeeters interview...so makes sense to that he left to wash his car..when he left she was hurt but alive.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Easywriter on July 08, 2006, 06:37:05 PM
Quote from: "Jacqueline"
Quote from: "BTgirl"
Quote from: "Jacqueline"
Quote from: "BTgirl"
Quote from: "Easywriter"
Quote from: "JuJu"
He Easy, people were looking for you today


Why?  What did I do now?  :shock:


It was just me. I hadn't seen you around today and wanted to make sure you were still alive.

When people get to be our age, that kind of thing is always iffy. :lol:


Hope the migrane is better BT.

And don't kid anyone here....you are a sweet young thang! :wink:


It's better, thanks Jacqueline.

And thanks for lying about my age for me. Keep saying that to people and maybe they'll start to believe it. :lol:


Baby you are cooler than alot of 30 year olds I know.

Just a number, Sugar....

(hey, are jersey girls suppose to talk like that.  I find myself saying Honey Hush too!    :lol:  :wink: )


You are probably okay unless you have found yourself saying sugah pie, hunny bunch. lol


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: SunnyinTX on July 08, 2006, 06:37:42 PM
Quote from: "spooky112483"
Quote from: "Jacqueline"
Quote from: "2NJSons_Mom"
Thanks, Jacqueline...now, I don't feel so bad.  I remember it...just can't prove it.

A Jersey girl to the rescue...how'e the shore?


Oh my Gawd water was beautiful 68 degrees....

heading back tomorrow !


Hey Jacque I haven't had the opportunity to tell you I was so happy to hear about Uncle Mike!! That is such great news but I hate that he had to go through all of that


I haven't heard/read the news....been away from the computer....but I gather this is good news for UNCLE MIKE!!!  PTL!!!!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Jacqueline on July 08, 2006, 06:39:11 PM
Quote from: "Easywriter"
Quote from: "Jacqueline"
Quote from: "BTgirl"
Quote from: "Jacqueline"
Quote from: "BTgirl"
Quote from: "Easywriter"
Quote from: "JuJu"
He Easy, people were looking for you today


Why?  What did I do now?  :shock:


It was just me. I hadn't seen you around today and wanted to make sure you were still alive.

When people get to be our age, that kind of thing is always iffy. :lol:


Hope the migrane is better BT.

And don't kid anyone here....you are a sweet young thang! :wink:


It's better, thanks Jacqueline.

And thanks for lying about my age for me. Keep saying that to people and maybe they'll start to believe it. :lol:


Baby you are cooler than alot of 30 year olds I know.

Just a number, Sugar....

(hey, are jersey girls suppose to talk like that.  I find myself saying Honey Hush too!    :lol:  :wink: )


You are probably okay unless you have found yourself saying sugah pie, hunny bunch. lol


I can't help myself... I love you and nobody else....

BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP   sugar pie, honey bunch... LOL


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: ldstlou on July 08, 2006, 06:39:44 PM
Easy..think I fixed it...changed to show e-mail address...hope I did it correctly and not going to show my e-mail address for all the trolls to see!! haha


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: SunnyinTX on July 08, 2006, 06:39:59 PM
Quote from: "ldstlou"
Quote from: "San"


Could be wrong.

Yes Anita went into detail so much so that Greta wanted to crawl under the table.  Now if we were to ask Anita questions about that conversation she would say she never said that because if she did say it happened it would be considered a sexual assault against Natalee.  According to Joran they only cuddled on the beach :roll:


Hey Guys!! catching up..but this really ticks me off!! If Greta was there when Anita talked GRAPHICALLY about what Joran did to Natalee...so graphic she wanted to crawl under the table...how in the he-- could she ever say she "tends to believe him"?!  SHE WAS THERE!!![/quote]

Greta sold her integrity for an exclusive with a murderer.....and  could only ask the questions a murderer approved....yea Greta you are one for the books.....


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: tcumom on July 08, 2006, 06:41:13 PM
Quote from: "Easywriter"

I'm starting to think it is allergies.  Constant runny nose, sore throat into my ears and night sweats.  I might just be falling apart!  Might have to take some bonded medicine tonight! lol

Easy ~ we have mold year-round in central Texas ~ what you've described is the reaction many, many folks have  :cry: Also, headaches and fever.  It really is just awful.  I realize it could be something else, but since you mentioned allergies, I perked up and figured I'd throw in a comment.  Really do hope you feel better ~ it can be miserable.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Easywriter on July 08, 2006, 06:41:17 PM
Quote from: "ldstlou"
Easy..think I fixed it...changed to show e-mail address...hope I did it correctly and not going to show my e-mail address for all the trolls to see!! haha


I will have to find that joke again and send it to you.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: SunnyinTX on July 08, 2006, 06:41:39 PM
Quote from: "Easywriter"
Anyone going to listen to Art Wood tonight?


I jumped in in the middle of things after nearly a week away from the computer..what show is he on and what time please???


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Jacqueline on July 08, 2006, 06:41:42 PM
Quote from: "SunnyinTX"
Quote from: "spooky112483"
Quote from: "Jacqueline"
Quote from: "2NJSons_Mom"
Thanks, Jacqueline...now, I don't feel so bad.  I remember it...just can't prove it.

A Jersey girl to the rescue...how'e the shore?


Oh my Gawd water was beautiful 68 degrees....

heading back tomorrow !


Hey Jacque I haven't had the opportunity to tell you I was so happy to hear about Uncle Mike!! That is such great news but I hate that he had to go through all of that


I haven't heard/read the news....been away from the computer....but I gather this is good news for UNCLE MIKE!!!  PTL!!!!


Thanks!

It is great news, family is soooooooo thrilled!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: ldstlou on July 08, 2006, 06:41:42 PM
Quote from: "SunnyinTX"
Quote from: "ldstlou"
Quote from: "San"


Could be wrong.

Yes Anita went into detail so much so that Greta wanted to crawl under the table.  Now if we were to ask Anita questions about that conversation she would say she never said that because if she did say it happened it would be considered a sexual assault against Natalee.  According to Joran they only cuddled on the beach :roll:


Hey Guys!! catching up..but this really ticks me off!! If Greta was there when Anita talked GRAPHICALLY about what Joran did to Natalee...so graphic she wanted to crawl under the table...how in the he-- could she ever say she "tends to believe him"?!  SHE WAS THERE!!!


Greta sold her integrity for an exclusive with a murderer.....and  could only ask the questions a murderer approved....yea Greta you are one for the books.....[/quote]

Worse than that Sunny...ok..so you sell your soul for the interview..but then she had to add..she tends to believe him...that disturbs me even more!!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: ldstlou on July 08, 2006, 06:42:35 PM
Quote from: "Easywriter"
Quote from: "ldstlou"
Easy..think I fixed it...changed to show e-mail address...hope I did it correctly and not going to show my e-mail address for all the trolls to see!! haha


I will have to find that joke again and send it to you.


thank you!! Loved that one and it is so me!! haha


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: friend of monkeys on July 08, 2006, 06:42:40 PM
Quote from: "San"
Quote from: "spooky112483"

errr, now I'm having a brain fart! greta said that anita described the, basically, sex between Natalee and Joran that Joran had told to Anita. But where did we come up with Anita desrcibing her underwear? I just dont remember the origin of this for some reason or it being said on greta.
somebody knock me up side the head!!!

The underwear description came from one of Joran's statements that Beth has in her possession.  I never heard Anita speak of underwear.


i am still perplexed as to how Klass got on the judges desk to see her calendar...`and also wondering if klass knows what color undies the judge put on this morning  :shock:
hey monkeys......


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: beachwego on July 08, 2006, 06:42:44 PM
HI SUNNY IN TEXAS!!!

Do you remember the Dutch word that was used way back in the beginning to describe sex.....anything from cuddling to the full monty, I guess?

Well, my hubby just came home with his new toy...a Harley...so I gotta go help him unload it from the trailer.  

Safe my place...I'll be back.

Wait for me Sunny, okay?!!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Jacqueline on July 08, 2006, 06:43:58 PM
If possible, please someone recap the show tonight.

Out for the evening.........

TIA

 :lol:

GO ITALY!!!!!!!!!!!!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Easywriter on July 08, 2006, 06:44:51 PM
Quote from: "tcumom"
Quote from: "Easywriter"

I'm starting to think it is allergies.  Constant runny nose, sore throat into my ears and night sweats.  I might just be falling apart!  Might have to take some bonded medicine tonight! lol

Easy ~ we have mold year-round in central Texas ~ what you've described is the reaction many, many folks have  :cry: Also, headaches and fever.  It really is just awful.  I realize it could be something else, but since you mentioned allergies, I perked up and figured I'd throw in a comment.  Really do hope you feel better ~ it can be miserable.


It has been extra bad this year, but it has been extra dry down here too.  Could be grass pollen, or something.  I'm pretty sure the sore throat is just from irritation due to the allergies, or sinus problems.  I will be fine.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: ldstlou on July 08, 2006, 06:45:15 PM
Quote from: "tcumom"
Quote from: "Easywriter"

I'm starting to think it is allergies.  Constant runny nose, sore throat into my ears and night sweats.  I might just be falling apart!  Might have to take some bonded medicine tonight! lol

Easy ~ we have mold year-round in central Texas ~ what you've described is the reaction many, many folks have  :cry: Also, headaches and fever.  It really is just awful.  I realize it could be something else, but since you mentioned allergies, I perked up and figured I'd throw in a comment.  Really do hope you feel better ~ it can be miserable.


mold bad here in St Lou too!! and I am allergig to mold..miserable sometimes!! I am a realtor..I can tell as soon as we walk into a house if a home has foundation problems and/or water problems by my instant reaction to the mold...clients think I am psychic!!! haha Some are really impressed!! Then I have to admit I am not psychic...just allergic!! haha


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: SunnyinTX on July 08, 2006, 06:45:31 PM
Quote from: "Easywriter"


I'm starting to think it is allergies.  Constant runny nose, sore throat into my ears and night sweats.  I might just be falling apart!  Might have to take some bonded medicine tonight! lol


Easy have you tried spraying/washing you sinuses with warm salt water?  It works....just a thought :wink:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: friend of monkeys on July 08, 2006, 06:45:57 PM
Quote from: "ldstlou"
Quote from: "SunFreak2"
I'm still a few pages back, but wanted to share my theory of that evening.

THEORY

J2K and Natalee leave CnC's.
Satish is dropped at his home.
Joran, Deepak pick Freddy up.  Natalee is not succumbing to the drugs yet, so they take a drive out by the lighthouse.  Natalee jumps out of the car (it is going slow b/c of the rough roads and Deepak's low riding suspension).  A chase ensues and Natalee falls into the rocks striking her head.  There are superficial cuts which bleed profusely, but unknown to them Natalee is bleeding within her skull too. They place Natalee in the backseat, where blood gets on the seat & headliner of the car.
They stop at the pond to wash her blood off.  Joran takes off his shoes to wash them, but when they are seen by the gardener, they panic and leave without them.
They carry Natalee into Joran's apt to film the sexual encounter. Deepak is freaking about the blood in his car, so he leaves to go home and clean his car.  This leaves just Joran & Freddy. Natalee is passing in & out of consciousness b/c of her head wound, the drugs & alcohol.  They both rape her while filming it.  While Joran & Freddy are viewing the tape and sending it to Deepak, Natalee makes her phone call(s).  Joran catches her in the act, and in anger strikes her, and she falls unconcious.  Joran can tell she is hurt very badly and runs for Daddy's help.  Paulus takes a wait-n-see attitude b/c he does not want to answer any questions if he takes her for medical help.  Unfortunately, the bleeding in her brain from the fall at the rocks causes her death. Later that morning, Joran is dropped off for school (whether driven to the bus stop or all the way to ISA).   Paulus also takes Freddy home but tells him to come back in the afternoon when Joran is thru with school.

Paulus deals with Natalee's dispostion, therefore the boys have no idea what happened to her. When Anita comes home, she finds out about it, and Joran is forced to turn over Natalee's underwear that he saved as a souvenir.  Or maybe Joran told Paulus that Nat wasn't wearing any, but Anita found them when scouring Joran's room.

This scenario doesn't include Guido as I don't believe he directly participated. He may have been involved after the fact (when he was supposed to be playing tennis with Joran the next day).  Perhaps Joran told him what happened, and KJ was trying to force him to talk by implicating him as an accessory to it.  Joran confiding in Guido could make Guido very scared, and his family retained Sprong b/c of what Guido knows rather than for him participating in the crime.


Sun...so much of this rings true for me..but I think it needs a little fine tuning...such as..gardner saw them at pond at 2:30am and Natalee's call from Joran's was at 3am..not alot of time to get home and do anything. So mabe the filming was done in car or at lighthouse? Not sure if that's possible because of lighting.



works for me......
thanks for all the time u put in to this


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: ldstlou on July 08, 2006, 06:47:39 PM
Quote from: "friend of monkeys"
Quote from: "San"
Quote from: "spooky112483"

errr, now I'm having a brain fart! greta said that anita described the, basically, sex between Natalee and Joran that Joran had told to Anita. But where did we come up with Anita desrcibing her underwear? I just dont remember the origin of this for some reason or it being said on greta.
somebody knock me up side the head!!!

The underwear description came from one of Joran's statements that Beth has in her possession.  I never heard Anita speak of underwear.


i am still perplexed as to how Klass got on the judges desk to see her calendar...`and also wondering if klass knows what color undies the judge put on this morning  :shock:
hey monkeys......


ok...time for me to grab a depends again!! peeing my pants laughing again!!! :lol:  :lol:  :lol:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: JuJu on July 08, 2006, 06:47:44 PM
Quote from: "SunnyinTX"
Quote from: "Easywriter"


I'm starting to think it is allergies.  Constant runny nose, sore throat into my ears and night sweats.  I might just be falling apart!  Might have to take some bonded medicine tonight! lol


Easy have you tried spraying/washing you sinuses with warm salt water?  It works....just a thought :wink:


I have the nasty allergies, but would most likely drown myself if i tried that.....lol


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: SunnyinTX on July 08, 2006, 06:48:00 PM
Quote from: "Jacqueline"
Quote from: "SunnyinTX"


I haven't heard/read the news....been away from the computer....but I gather this is good news for UNCLE MIKE!!!  PTL!!!!


Thanks!

It is great news, family is soooooooo thrilled!


What an ordeal.....I will be interested to read the story one day soon.....someone has got to get him for a book deal!!!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: mishy on July 08, 2006, 06:48:30 PM
Quote from: "SunnyinTX"
Quote from: "spooky112483"
Quote from: "Jacqueline"
Quote from: "2NJSons_Mom"
Thanks, Jacqueline...now, I don't feel so bad.  I remember it...just can't prove it.

A Jersey girl to the rescue...how'e the shore?


Oh my Gawd water was beautiful 68 degrees....

heading back tomorrow !


Hey Jacque I haven't had the opportunity to tell you I was so happy to hear about Uncle Mike!! That is such great news but I hate that he had to go through all of that


I haven't heard/read the news....been away from the computer....but I gather this is good news for UNCLE MIKE!!!  PTL!!!!


Amen!! Aren't they making arrangments for his flight home? I'm so STOKED!!!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: ldstlou on July 08, 2006, 06:49:12 PM
Quote from: "SunnyinTX"
Quote from: "Easywriter"


I'm starting to think it is allergies.  Constant runny nose, sore throat into my ears and night sweats.  I might just be falling apart!  Might have to take some bonded medicine tonight! lol


Easy have you tried spraying/washing you sinuses with warm salt water?  It works....just a thought :wink:


ooh Sunny...you are brilliant!! I forgot..I started using that saline spray and it really really helps!!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Easywriter on July 08, 2006, 06:49:43 PM
Quote from: "SunnyinTX"
Quote from: "Easywriter"
Anyone going to listen to Art Wood tonight?


I jumped in in the middle of things after nearly a week away from the computer..what show is he on and what time please???


He will be on Dana Pretzer's satellite radio show again tonight.  You guys need to call early and ask some tough questions, like what the hell did Joran do with Natalee!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: mishy on July 08, 2006, 06:50:46 PM
Quote from: "beachwego"
HI SUNNY IN TEXAS!!!

Do you remember the Dutch word that was used way back in the beginning to describe sex.....anything from cuddling to the full monty, I guess?

Well, my hubby just came home with his new toy...a Harley...so I gotta go help him unload it from the trailer.  

Safe my place...I'll be back.

Wait for me Sunny, okay?!!


Wasn't it vrijen?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: SunnyinTX on July 08, 2006, 06:51:17 PM
Quote from: "ldstlou"
Quote from: "SunnyinTX"


Greta sold her integrity for an exclusive with a murderer.....and  could only ask the questions a murderer approved....yea Greta you are one for the books.....


Worse than that Sunny...ok..so you sell your soul for the interview..but then she had to add..she tends to believe him...that disturbs me even more!!


What else was she gonna say :evil: ......if she had said she didn't believe him...she would never get that second interview she is so hoping for...oh yes....dear Greta thought she had the horse by the tail....too bad she forgot about horse's poop!!  And Good Morning America beat her out..... :wink:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: SunnyinTX on July 08, 2006, 06:53:58 PM
Quote from: "beachwego"
HI SUNNY IN TEXAS!!!

Do you remember the Dutch word that was used way back in the beginning to describe sex.....anything from cuddling to the full monty, I guess?

Well, my hubby just came home with his new toy...a Harley...so I gotta go help him unload it from the trailer.  

Safe my place...I'll be back.

Wait for me Sunny, okay?!!


hi BEACHY!!!  I have missed you!!!

I know what word you mean.....but can't remember it.... :oops:   Tell Mr. Beachy I said WOOHOO on the new Harley and he owes me a ride!  I'll wait and hold your place!!! :wink:  :D


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: ldstlou on July 08, 2006, 06:54:52 PM
Quote from: "SunnyinTX"
Quote from: "ldstlou"
Quote from: "SunnyinTX"


Greta sold her integrity for an exclusive with a murderer.....and  could only ask the questions a murderer approved....yea Greta you are one for the books.....


Worse than that Sunny...ok..so you sell your soul for the interview..but then she had to add..she tends to believe him...that disturbs me even more!!


What else was she gonna say :evil: ......if she had said she didn't believe him...she would never get that second interview she is so hoping for...oh yes....dear Greta thought she had the horse by the tail....too bad she forgot about horse's poop!!  And Good Morning America beat her out..... :wink:


she could have refrained from saying anything. Thought reporters were supposed to be objective...just lay out the "facts" Man what a slap in the face that had to be to Beth and Dave..and Beth has so much dignity and grace..I think I would have had to go some rounds w/ old Greta after that!!! BRING IT ON GRETA!!! haha


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: AZLady on July 08, 2006, 06:57:49 PM
Good afternoon, Monkeys.  I'm surprised Red doesn't have a link to Dana's show tonight on the Front Page.  I'm sure he'll get it up soon.  What time is the show?  Just in case, does anyone have a link or should I google it?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: SunnyinTX on July 08, 2006, 07:00:53 PM
Quote from: "ldstlou"


mold bad here in St Lou too!! and I am allergig to mold..miserable sometimes!! I am a realtor..I can tell as soon as we walk into a house if a home has foundation problems and/or water problems by my instant reaction to the mold...clients think I am psychic!!! haha Some are really impressed!! Then I have to admit I am not psychic...just allergic!! haha


My son and DIL recently moved back to St. Louis/Arnold....they looked at a lot of houses and my son said many even the newer ones smelled moldy.....he is senstive to mold as well.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: klaasend on July 08, 2006, 07:02:58 PM
Quote from: "AZLady"
Good afternoon, Monkeys.  I'm surprised Red doesn't have a link to Dana's show tonight on the Front Page.  I'm sure he'll get it up soon.  What time is the show?  Just in case, does anyone have a link or should I google it?


(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e82/klaasend2/c-band.jpg)

This Saturday Dana's guest will be Art Wood

No Sunday show this week, I will be doing a Saturday show July 8th at 10pm est.
Guest - Art Wood Part 2 Of Our Discussion On the Holloway case.

http://bruinfan.sasktelwebsite.net/

Scroll down to Click here for a 16k Media Player Stream

Call in number before and after the interview is 306-842-7884


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: SunFreak2 on July 08, 2006, 07:03:30 PM
Deepak on his Tickle site today.
Ewwwhhh!!  Is he creepy or what?

http://connect.tickle.com/profile/index.html?id=WoKilqL4NTk5WOSr


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: klaasend on July 08, 2006, 07:04:47 PM
Mishy - check your email

AZSunny - We have a Media thread that I try to keep updated.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: SunnyinTX on July 08, 2006, 07:05:20 PM
Quote from: "JuJu"
Quote from: "SunnyinTX"
Quote from: "Easywriter"


I'm starting to think it is allergies.  Constant runny nose, sore throat into my ears and night sweats.  I might just be falling apart!  Might have to take some bonded medicine tonight! lol


Easy have you tried spraying/washing you sinuses with warm salt water?  It works....just a thought :wink:


I have the nasty allergies, but would most likely drown myself if i tried that.....lol


hahahaha...no you wouldn't.... me it works.....I had a terrible sinus infection while living on Jamaica....nothing would clear it up....a friend took me to a bush doctor.....he got sea water and put it in one of those syringes one uses for children....it worked in less that 24 hours ....I was feeling human again.  Since them anytime I get a sinus infection or am plagued with any type of allery I use warm water with sea salt disolved in it.....and it works!!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: SunnyinTX on July 08, 2006, 07:06:45 PM
Quote from: "ldstlou"
Quote from: "SunnyinTX"

Easy have you tried spraying/washing you sinuses with warm salt water?  It works....just a thought :wink:


ooh Sunny...you are brilliant!! I forgot..I started using that saline spray and it really really helps!!


See Easy....don't take  my word on it...take idstlou's :wink:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: SunnyinTX on July 08, 2006, 07:07:56 PM
Quote from: "Easywriter"
Quote from: "SunnyinTX"
Quote from: "Easywriter"
Anyone going to listen to Art Wood tonight?


I jumped in in the middle of things after nearly a week away from the computer..what show is he on and what time please???


He will be on Dana Pretzer's satellite radio show again tonight.  You guys need to call early and ask some tough questions, like what the hell did Joran do with Natalee!


thanks Easy....I'll be listening.... :D
I'll leaves the questions to the smart monkeys.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: terryd270 on July 08, 2006, 07:08:17 PM
I really wish that they would have Garrison, Larry on Dana show.. He wanted to tell all about Julia and Greta cut him off.. He would be up there with Beth for me wanting to listen to.. Well thats just my opinion but he would be one I want to hear the rest of the story from..


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Anna on July 08, 2006, 07:08:19 PM
.
Good evening, Monkeys!

Since we never actually heard the interview of Anita that was private between her and Beth with Greta there, we don't know for sure if Anita described the underwear or not.  Greta did say it was so graphic she wanted to crawl under the table and then tended to believe the Sporter when he said he did not have sex with Natalee.

I wonder why the Sporter asked for any family to step away when he told Charles Croes what he did with Natalee?  He didn't want Jug to hear that he cuddled with her on the beach??  Yeah, right!   :evil:

So if anybody runs across what Greta actually said about Anita's graphic descriptions, please post it.  That is all we know about that conversation and Greta might have mentioned if Anita described the underwear or not.  I tend to remember that she did but an not certain at all.  We have only Greta's word on what was said at that meeting.  I do with Beth would tell her side of it.  

.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: SunnyinTX on July 08, 2006, 07:08:51 PM
Quote from: "mishy"
Quote from: "beachwego"
HI SUNNY IN TEXAS!!!

Do you remember the Dutch word that was used way back in the beginning to describe sex.....anything from cuddling to the full monty, I guess?

Well, my hubby just came home with his new toy...a Harley...so I gotta go help him unload it from the trailer.  

Safe my place...I'll be back.

Wait for me Sunny, okay?!!


Wasn't it vrijen?


I think that's it! Mishy you will now be known to me as Amazing Mishy! :wink:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Easywriter on July 08, 2006, 07:09:04 PM
Quote from: "SunnyinTX"
Quote from: "ldstlou"
Quote from: "SunnyinTX"

Easy have you tried spraying/washing you sinuses with warm salt water?  It works....just a thought :wink:


ooh Sunny...you are brilliant!! I forgot..I started using that saline spray and it really really helps!!


See Easy....don't take  my word on it...take idstlou's :wink:


Do you realize what fish do in seawater!!!!! lol


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: ldstlou on July 08, 2006, 07:09:31 PM
Quote from: "SunnyinTX"
Quote from: "ldstlou"


mold bad here in St Lou too!! and I am allergig to mold..miserable sometimes!! I am a realtor..I can tell as soon as we walk into a house if a home has foundation problems and/or water problems by my instant reaction to the mold...clients think I am psychic!!! haha Some are really impressed!! Then I have to admit I am not psychic...just allergic!! haha


My son and DIL recently moved back to St. Louis/Arnold....they looked at a lot of houses and my son said many even the newer ones smelled moldy.....he is senstive to mold as well.


people say this is the mold capitol of the world!! NEVER had sinus problems until I moved here. Arnold nice area...south of me..I actually live in city but run down there to hit Walmat and Kohls. Let me know if you ever come for a visit!!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: AZLady on July 08, 2006, 07:11:10 PM
Thanks, Klaas.  I bookmarked it.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: ldstlou on July 08, 2006, 07:11:36 PM
Quote from: "Easywriter"
Quote from: "SunnyinTX"
Quote from: "ldstlou"
Quote from: "SunnyinTX"

Easy have you tried spraying/washing you sinuses with warm salt water?  It works....just a thought :wink:


ooh Sunny...you are brilliant!! I forgot..I started using that saline spray and it really really helps!!


See Easy....don't take  my word on it...take idstlou's :wink:


Do you realize what fish do in seawater!!!!! lol


don't think there's any fishy poop in mine!! REALLY WORKS!! cleans the cilia? is it called...you know...those tiny hairs up there!! haha :lol:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Easywriter on July 08, 2006, 07:11:43 PM
Quote from: "terryd270"
I really wish that they would have Garrison, Larry on Dana show.. He wanted to tell all about Julia and Greta cut him off.. He would be up there with Beth for me wanting to listen to.. Well thats just my opinion but he would be one I want to hear the rest of the story from..


Contact him and see if he would consider doing Dana's show.  Sometimes all you have to do is ask.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: SunnyinTX on July 08, 2006, 07:11:45 PM
Quote from: "ldstlou"
Quote from: "SunnyinTX"


What else was she gonna say :evil: ......if she had said she didn't believe him...she would never get that second interview she is so hoping for...oh yes....dear Greta thought she had the horse by the tail....too bad she forgot about horse's poop!!  And Good Morning America beat her out..... :wink:


she could have refrained from saying anything. Thought reporters were supposed to be objective...just lay out the "facts" Man what a slap in the face that had to be to Beth and Dave..and Beth has so much dignity and grace..I think I would have had to go some rounds w/ old Greta after that!!! BRING IT ON GRETA!!! haha


beth has been such a lady through all of this.....I admire her greatly....I'd have slapped the crap ( I have to say crap cause Klaas or Lala's might be lurking someplace :wink: ....but you know what I MEAN!! :wink: ) outta Greta! :evil:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: SunnyinTX on July 08, 2006, 07:12:54 PM
Quote from: "AZLady"
Good afternoon, Monkeys.  I'm surprised Red doesn't have a link to Dana's show tonight on the Front Page.  I'm sure he'll get it up soon.  What time is the show?  Just in case, does anyone have a link or should I google it?


Hi AZLAdy...I don't have any answers to your questions :oops: ....just wanted to give you a shout!! :wink:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: klaasend on July 08, 2006, 07:13:03 PM
Quote from: "SunFreak2"
Deepak on his Tickle site today.
Ewwwhhh!!  Is he creepy or what?

http://connect.tickle.com/profile/index.html?id=WoKilqL4NTk5WOSr


Deepak has 2 friends listed, Koen and Kawish.  Kawish has a photo of himself with someone named Santos:

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e82/klaasend2/santos.jpg)


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: BTgirl on July 08, 2006, 07:13:25 PM
Quote from: "Anna"
.
Good evening, Monkeys!

Since we never actually heard the interview of Anita that was private between her and Beth with Greta there, we don't know for sure if Anita described the underwear or not.  Greta did say it was so graphic she wanted to crawl under the table and then tended to believe the Sporter when he said he did not have sex with Natalee.

I wonder why the Sporter asked for any family to step away when he told Charles Croes what he did with Natalee?  He didn't want Jug to hear that he cuddled with her on the beach??  Yeah, right!   :evil:

So if anybody runs across what Greta actually said about Anita's graphic descriptions, please post it.  That is all we know about that conversation and Greta might have mentioned if Anita described the underwear or not.  I tend to remember that she did but an not certain at all.  We have only Greta's word on what was said at that meeting.  I do with Beth would tell her side of it.  

.


Anna,

I don't have a link, but what I remember is Anita describing the underwear to Greta and talking about embroidery on it. There was also some embarrassing description of something to do with Natalee's private parts, if I remember correctly.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Anna on July 08, 2006, 07:13:41 PM
For those having trouble getting the radio broadcast to play, be sure you have Windows Media Player installed and updated.  It should then play when you click on the line/link that has the 16k Media stream in it.

.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: mishy on July 08, 2006, 07:14:33 PM
Quote from: "SunFreak2"
Deepak on his Tickle site today.
Ewwwhhh!!  Is he creepy or what?

http://connect.tickle.com/profile/index.html?id=WoKilqL4NTk5WOSr


Wow, I thought he cancelled it...must be a new one... :roll:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: terryd270 on July 08, 2006, 07:14:48 PM
If JQKelly hasn't deposition Greta on that exchanged then he isn't doing his job.. Like so much of this case, it seems we assume things were done and I'm beginning to think no one did anything except chase their tails.. This would of been in my court papers in the filing but I didn't see it.. I guess maybe I think too simple and that its my problem.. Well I will sit back and assume that the FBI did voice recognition on all the calls and I will assume that JQ Kelly got Greta to do a deposition for his hearing..  I would assume that would of been strong evidence and I might just be frustrated that I see us chasing vaper when stuff that can be verified we assume that its been done..


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: JuJu on July 08, 2006, 07:15:09 PM
Quote from: SunnyinTX
Quote from: "JuJu"
Quote from: "SunnyinTX"
Quote from: "Easywriter"


I'm starting to think it is allergies.  Constant runny nose, sore throat into my ears and night sweats.  I might just be falling apart!  Might have to take some bonded medicine tonight! lol


Easy have you tried spraying/washing you sinuses with warm salt water?  It works....just a thought :wink:


I have the nasty allergies, but would most likely drown myself if i tried that.....lol


hahahaha...no you wouldn't.... me it works.....I had a terrible sinus infection while living on Jamaica....nothing would clear it up....a friend took me to a bush doctor.....he got sea water and put it in one of those syringes one uses for children....it worked in less that 24 hours ....I was feeling human again.  Since them anytime I get a sinus infection or am plagued with any type of allery I use warm water with sea salt disolved in it.....and it works!![/

years ago i let my ex- husband talk me into using some that he had put in an old nose spray bottle, one squirt and i thought satan had been shoved up my nose.  I think part of my brain is still petrified from that event.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: AZLady on July 08, 2006, 07:15:38 PM
Easy, I agree that your symptoms sound exactly like allergies.  My daughter has never had allergies and developed them very seriously last fall (age 22).  Thought she had sinus infections, tried two courses of antibiotics to no avail.  Finally, after months of agony and growing worse, she went to allergist.  Testing showed her immune system wacky and she's allergic to everything.  She's been taking 3 allergy shots a week now since April and is a new person.  They have really turned her around.  You need to see an allergist.  In the meantime, try the saline rinses of sinuses for temporary relief.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: ldstlou on July 08, 2006, 07:16:04 PM
Quote from: "SunFreak2"
Deepak on his Tickle site today.
Ewwwhhh!!  Is he creepy or what?

http://connect.tickle.com/profile/index.html?id=WoKilqL4NTk5WOSr


oooh..it is creepy...not many friends left either!!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Easywriter on July 08, 2006, 07:16:12 PM
Quote from: "SunnyinTX"
Quote from: "ldstlou"
Quote from: "SunnyinTX"


What else was she gonna say :evil: ......if she had said she didn't believe him...she would never get that second interview she is so hoping for...oh yes....dear Greta thought she had the horse by the tail....too bad she forgot about horse's poop!!  And Good Morning America beat her out..... :wink:


she could have refrained from saying anything. Thought reporters were supposed to be objective...just lay out the "facts" Man what a slap in the face that had to be to Beth and Dave..and Beth has so much dignity and grace..I think I would have had to go some rounds w/ old Greta after that!!! BRING IT ON GRETA!!! haha


beth has been such a lady through all of this.....I admire her greatly....I'd have slapped the crap ( I have to say crap cause Klaas or Lala's might be lurking someplace :wink: ....but you know what I MEAN!! :wink: ) outta Greta! :evil:


I lost all respect for Greta after that interview and can not stand to watch her anymore.  I will if she has someone on about this case, but that's it for me.

Wonder what Kimberly will have on tonight...


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: mishy on July 08, 2006, 07:16:18 PM
Quote from: "SunnyinTX"
Quote from: "mishy"
Quote from: "beachwego"
HI SUNNY IN TEXAS!!!

Do you remember the Dutch word that was used way back in the beginning to describe sex.....anything from cuddling to the full monty, I guess?

Well, my hubby just came home with his new toy...a Harley...so I gotta go help him unload it from the trailer.  

Safe my place...I'll be back.

Wait for me Sunny, okay?!!


Wasn't it vrijen?


I think that's it! Mishy you will now be known to me as Amazing Mishy! :wink:


 :lol:  :wink:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: ldstlou on July 08, 2006, 07:17:34 PM
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "SunFreak2"
Deepak on his Tickle site today.
Ewwwhhh!!  Is he creepy or what?

http://connect.tickle.com/profile/index.html?id=WoKilqL4NTk5WOSr


Deepak has 2 friends listed, Koen and Kawish.  Kawish has a photo of himself with someone named Santos:

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e82/klaasend2/santos.jpg)


oh wow Klaas...what an I you have!! I missed that one!! You are so darned good!! Wonder if that is the mysterious Santos?!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: JuJu on July 08, 2006, 07:18:00 PM
I just clicked on a pic at DK website and guess where it took me....to Michale Dompigs website


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: SunnyinTX on July 08, 2006, 07:18:19 PM
Quote from: "ldstlou"


people say this is the mold capitol of the world!! NEVER had sinus problems until I moved here. Arnold nice area...south of me..I actually live in city but run down there to hit Walmat and Kohls. Let me know if you ever come for a visit!!


It's a nice area...when I lived there Arnold was the boonies....I was there in May and will be back in December for 2 weeks...you, Snoopy and I will HAVE to get together....Snoopy and I have tried twice so far.....but my time is always so limited and short.....so 2 weeks should be plenty of time for us to all meet! :wink:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: AZLady on July 08, 2006, 07:18:58 PM
Well, you need to go to a drugstore and get a proper saline solution developed for sinus rinses and my daughter uses what looks like a little plastic teapot bought made to rinse the sinuses.  Do not use someone else's saline spray!!! or an old one!!! asking for trouble there.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Easywriter on July 08, 2006, 07:19:12 PM
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "SunFreak2"
Deepak on his Tickle site today.
Ewwwhhh!!  Is he creepy or what?

http://connect.tickle.com/profile/index.html?id=WoKilqL4NTk5WOSr


Deepak has 2 friends listed, Koen and Kawish.  Kawish has a photo of himself with someone named Santos:

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e82/klaasend2/santos.jpg)


Which is which?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: terryd270 on July 08, 2006, 07:19:43 PM
I too felt that Greta betrayed Beth but then again I realized she is not anyones friend, she is a talking head and nothing more.. She kept the story alive so I'm happy for that but she will not be someone I will watch unless she has Beth, Dave or John Q. Kelly on..


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: SunnyinTX on July 08, 2006, 07:20:14 PM
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "SunFreak2"
Deepak on his Tickle site today.
Ewwwhhh!!  Is he creepy or what?

http://connect.tickle.com/profile/index.html?id=WoKilqL4NTk5WOSr


Deepak has 2 friends listed, Koen and Kawish.  Kawish has a photo of himself with someone named Santos:

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e82/klaasend2/santos.jpg)



hee hee hee...I knew Klaas was lurking out there!  LOL...OHMYGAWD look at the BLING on these guys!!!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Easywriter on July 08, 2006, 07:20:28 PM
I bet Art Wood could tell us more about Dos Santos!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: terryd270 on July 08, 2006, 07:20:39 PM
Look at the bling on those two, I guess they have strong necks?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: AZLady on July 08, 2006, 07:20:59 PM
Hey SunnyinTX, how's it going?  Is is still hot in TX?  It's still hot in AZ!!  :lol:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: JuJu on July 08, 2006, 07:21:12 PM
Quote from: "AZLady"
Well, you need to go to a drugstore and get a proper saline solution developed for sinus rinses and my daughter uses what looks like a little plastic teapot bought made to rinse the sinuses.  Do not use someone else's saline spray!!! or an old one!!! asking for trouble there.


I think the bastard did it on purpose.  He is so stupid he thought he could kill me with it....LOL


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: beachwego on July 08, 2006, 07:22:04 PM
Quote from: "terryd270"
I really wish that they would have Garrison, Larry on Dana show.. He wanted to tell all about Julia and Greta cut him off.. He would be up there with Beth for me wanting to listen to.. Well thats just my opinion but he would be one I want to hear the rest of the story from..


Fantastic idea!!!  I want to hear the rest of his story too...and..I bet he has a lot he could tell!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: klaasend on July 08, 2006, 07:22:19 PM
Quote from: "Easywriter"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "SunFreak2"
Deepak on his Tickle site today.
Ewwwhhh!!  Is he creepy or what?

http://connect.tickle.com/profile/index.html?id=WoKilqL4NTk5WOSr


Deepak has 2 friends listed, Koen and Kawish.  Kawish has a photo of himself with someone named Santos:

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e82/klaasend2/santos.jpg)


Which is which?


Based on the other photos, I believe Santos is on the left.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: SunnyinTX on July 08, 2006, 07:22:37 PM
Quote from: JuJu
Quote from: "SunnyinTX"


hahahaha...no you wouldn't.... me it works.....I had a terrible sinus infection while living on Jamaica....nothing would clear it up....a friend took me to a bush doctor.....he got sea water and put it in one of those syringes one uses for children....it worked in less that 24 hours ....I was feeling human again.  Since them anytime I get a sinus infection or am plagued with any type of allery I use warm water with sea salt disolved in it.....and it works!![/

years ago i let my ex- husband talk me into using some that he had put in an old nose spray bottle, one squirt and i thought satan had been shoved up my nose.  I think part of my brain is still petrified from that event.


OHMYGAWD...please pass the DEPENDS!!!  BYW...did your sinus infection clear up! :D


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: AZLady on July 08, 2006, 07:22:59 PM
Well those two pimps are advertising, doncha know?  All that gold and shiny stuff around the neck tells the girls they are workin' it (or something like that...).


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: ldstlou on July 08, 2006, 07:23:16 PM
Quote from: "SunnyinTX"
Quote from: "ldstlou"


people say this is the mold capitol of the world!! NEVER had sinus problems until I moved here. Arnold nice area...south of me..I actually live in city but run down there to hit Walmat and Kohls. Let me know if you ever come for a visit!!


It's a nice area...when I lived there Arnold was the boonies....I was there in May and will be back in December for 2 weeks...you, Snoopy and I will HAVE to get together....Snoopy and I have tried twice so far.....but my time is always so limited and short.....so 2 weeks should be plenty of time for us to all meet! :wink:


too cool!! I am excited!! I know about Arnold...sold a couple of houses there..have only been here 7 years but everyone talks about how it used to be "Hoosier"  haha it's come along way. Would be really fun to get together!!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Easywriter on July 08, 2006, 07:23:47 PM
Santos en ikkee!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: AZLady on July 08, 2006, 07:24:34 PM
Quote from: "Easywriter"
Santos en ikkee!


Yeah, and Santos looks icky, too!   :lol:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: terryd270 on July 08, 2006, 07:25:00 PM
I hated when Greta was going to read all the transcipts of all the suspects (Satish, Deepak and Joran) while they were in custody the first time.. She started to but we never got to Satish and I wonder why.. We got like two days worth and then nothings else.. Who stopped it??


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: SunFreak2 on July 08, 2006, 07:25:13 PM
Quote from: "Easywriter"
Quote from: "SunnyinTX"
Quote from: "ldstlou"
Quote from: "SunnyinTX"

Easy have you tried spraying/washing you sinuses with warm salt water?  It works....just a thought :wink:


ooh Sunny...you are brilliant!! I forgot..I started using that saline spray and it really really helps!!


See Easy....don't take  my word on it...take idstlou's :wink:


Do you realize what fish do in seawater!!!!! lol


The saline spray is very good advice Sunny.  It is sold in most stores like Wally World in the section by other nasal sprays.  One can fill one nostril, tip the head back for as long as possible.  Then do the other nostril.  Then use the tissue to blow out the mucous.  Or just spray several times a day.  It really does help clear it up.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: beachwego on July 08, 2006, 07:25:17 PM
Quote from: "SunnyinTX"
Quote from: "beachwego"
HI SUNNY IN TEXAS!!!

Do you remember the Dutch word that was used way back in the beginning to describe sex.....anything from cuddling to the full monty, I guess?

Well, my hubby just came home with his new toy...a Harley...so I gotta go help him unload it from the trailer.  

Safe my place...I'll be back.

Wait for me Sunny, okay?!!


hi BEACHY!!!  I have missed you!!!

I know what word you mean.....but can't remember it.... :oops:   Tell Mr. Beachy I said WOOHOO on the new Harley and he owes me a ride!  I'll wait and hold your place!!! :wink:  :D


awww...you waited for me!  You're such a sweetie...thanks!

You can certainly have a ride on that Harley....but you are braver than me!   I've got see his ability on it for awhile before I get on it with him!  It's his first motorcycle EVER....and..he had to have it because his buddies all have one.  WHATEVER!!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: terryd270 on July 08, 2006, 07:25:55 PM
I wonder if Jossy has the rest of the transcipts and if he will release them?  I assume maybe someone has stopped any new releases maybe..


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: ldstlou on July 08, 2006, 07:25:58 PM
Quote from: SunnyinTX
Quote from: "JuJu"
Quote from: "SunnyinTX"


hahahaha...no you wouldn't.... me it works.....I had a terrible sinus infection while living on Jamaica....nothing would clear it up....a friend took me to a bush doctor.....he got sea water and put it in one of those syringes one uses for children....it worked in less that 24 hours ....I was feeling human again.  Since them anytime I get a sinus infection or am plagued with any type of allery I use warm water with sea salt disolved in it.....and it works!![/

years ago i let my ex- husband talk me into using some that he had put in an old nose spray bottle, one squirt and i thought satan had been shoved up my nose.  I think part of my brain is still petrified from that event.



I think Red is going to have to start selling depends in the Monkey Store!!
OHMYGAWD...please pass the DEPENDS!!!  BYW...did your sinus infection clear up! :D


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: SunnyinTX on July 08, 2006, 07:26:53 PM
Quote from: "AZLady"
Hey SunnyinTX, how's it going?  Is is still hot in TX?  It's still hot in AZ!!  :lol:


It's HOT and HUMID and STEAMY!  All the rain.....has many it like a saune nearly every day... :(   It's too hot to even go out and get in the pool!!!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: JuJu on July 08, 2006, 07:27:00 PM
Quote from: SunnyinTX
Quote from: "JuJu"
Quote from: "SunnyinTX"


hahahaha...no you wouldn't.... me it works.....I had a terrible sinus infection while living on Jamaica....nothing would clear it up....a friend took me to a bush doctor.....he got sea water and put it in one of those syringes one uses for children....it worked in less that 24 hours ....I was feeling human again.  Since them anytime I get a sinus infection or am plagued with any type of allery I use warm water with sea salt disolved in it.....and it works!![/

years ago i let my ex- husband talk me into using some that he had put in an old nose spray bottle, one squirt and i thought satan had been shoved up my nose.  I think part of my brain is still petrified from that event.



OHMYGAWD...please pass the DEPENDS!!!  BYW...did your sinus infection clear up! :D


I don't know, the only thing i remember is the pain in my brain!  It was like the Morton Salt Girl pee'd up my nose.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: AZLady on July 08, 2006, 07:27:26 PM
Quote from: "terryd270"
I wonder if Jossy has the rest of the transcipts and if he will release them?  I assume maybe someone has stopped any new releases maybe..


Someone must have.  I remember Greta reading those and after two days, she just stopped with no explanation.  Interesting.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: SunnyinTX on July 08, 2006, 07:28:38 PM
Quote from: "beachwego"
Quote from: "terryd270"
I really wish that they would have Garrison, Larry on Dana show.. He wanted to tell all about Julia and Greta cut him off.. He would be up there with Beth for me wanting to listen to.. Well thats just my opinion but he would be one I want to hear the rest of the story from..


Fantastic idea!!!  I want to hear the rest of his story too...and..I bet he has a lot he could tell!


HI BEACHY!  I held your place!!!  becare Klaas is luring...so no cussing, spittin' or stomping your feet :wink:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: AZLady on July 08, 2006, 07:28:43 PM
Quote from: "SunnyinTX"
Quote from: "AZLady"
Hey SunnyinTX, how's it going?  Is is still hot in TX?  It's still hot in AZ!!  :lol:


It's HOT and HUMID and STEAMY!  All the rain.....has many it like a saune nearly every day... :(   It's too hot to even go out and get in the pool!!!


At least it's been dry and hot here.  Wind kicks up in the evening, but we aren't really into monsoons yet.  Coming soon...


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: terryd270 on July 08, 2006, 07:30:54 PM
I just wanted to say my part about Garrison, Larry  and wanting to hear what he wasn't allowed to say on Greta..  It started out before she broke for a commercial as that Julia ratted out Joran to John Q. Kelly and that this same woman was writing a book on Natalee being pregnant by Jug."  and then Greta stopped him and went to a commercial..  I think that same night she had the old fool Julia on too, I guess she didn't want to upset Julia..  Good night and hope we hear something interesting..


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: AZLady on July 08, 2006, 07:31:02 PM
I'm going to go water my posies, but I'll be back tonight and try to type what Art says for ya'll.  I can't call it transcribing (I dont' type that fast), but just what I can catch.  See ya.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: SunnyinTX on July 08, 2006, 07:31:24 PM
Quote from: "beachwego"


awww...you waited for me!  You're such a sweetie...thanks!

You can certainly have a ride on that Harley....but you are braver than me!   I've got see his ability on it for awhile before I get on it with him!  It's his first motorcycle EVER....and..he had to have it because his buddies all have one.  WHATEVER!!


I told you I would :wink:   eeerrrr if this is Mr B's first motorcycle....I'll let you break it in!  :wink:  LOL


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Easywriter on July 08, 2006, 07:32:37 PM
Quote from: "AZLady"
Quote from: "terryd270"
I wonder if Jossy has the rest of the transcipts and if he will release them?  I assume maybe someone has stopped any new releases maybe..


Someone must have.  I remember Greta reading those and after two days, she just stopped with no explanation.  Interesting.


She started going through Beth's journal too and stopped that as well.  Does make ya wonder.....


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: SunnyinTX on July 08, 2006, 07:32:52 PM
Quote from: "ldstlou"


too cool!! I am excited!! I know about Arnold...sold a couple of houses there..have only been here 7 years but everyone talks about how it used to be "Hoosier"  haha it's come along way. Would be really fun to get together!!


Yes it used to be Hoosier!  LOL.....I was trying to be nice!  LOL.....well if this damn heat keeps up you will have to start loking for a house for me!!!  :shock:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Anna on July 08, 2006, 07:33:12 PM
.
If Dana says he has time for one more call or will take a caller and does not already have one on the line, somebody needs to call in.  Last time I did not intend to call but he was asking for a caller and did not have one.  First time, busy signals forever but last time he was asking for a call.  We do NOT want to leave him strung out without one for he has been too good to interview those we have asked him to interview.

So if he wants a call, let's be sure he has one.  I am using asthma inhaler again tonight so not calling but I know some of you would do a wonderful job if you will just listen for him and keep in mind he has that two minute delay so if he has not caller it will take two minutes for you to get on the air.  Just don't want Dana stranded with no calls if he asks for some.

.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: beachwego on July 08, 2006, 07:34:26 PM
Hey Easy!

I've been having a terrible time with my allergies this year too.  I think because we have been living at our beachhouse for the past couple of years where I had no trouble at all and now that we have moved back to our house here in Houston, I think all the trees and wooded area around here is killing me.  However, I have found that the ZICAM nasal allergy spray and the nasal congestion spray has worked pretty good.  I also use their Cough Mist for sore throat and nasal congestion.

Hope you feel better soon!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: SunnyinTX on July 08, 2006, 07:34:28 PM
Quote from: "terryd270"
I hated when Greta was going to read all the transcipts of all the suspects (Satish, Deepak and Joran) while they were in custody the first time.. She started to but we never got to Satish and I wonder why.. We got like two days worth and then nothings else.. Who stopped it??


Cohen would be my guess.....he still has lots of connections and probably a lot of favors to call in....and he would certainly not be above a little blackmail either...the slimebag!!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: ldstlou on July 08, 2006, 07:35:20 PM
Quote from: "SunnyinTX"
Quote from: "ldstlou"


too cool!! I am excited!! I know about Arnold...sold a couple of houses there..have only been here 7 years but everyone talks about how it used to be "Hoosier"  haha it's come along way. Would be really fun to get together!!


Yes it used to be Hoosier!  LOL.....I was trying to be nice!  LOL.....well if this damn heat keeps up you will have to start loking for a house for me!!!  :shock:


rehabbing one now!! Was supposed to be long gone to paint...I AM SO TIRED OF PAINTING!! Almost done...hoping to have it on the market Thursday!!
We have had unusually nice weather here!! Only in 80's instead of 100!!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Anna on July 08, 2006, 07:36:16 PM
Quote from: "Easywriter"
Quote from: "AZLady"
Quote from: "terryd270"
I wonder if Jossy has the rest of the transcipts and if he will release them?  I assume maybe someone has stopped any new releases maybe..


Someone must have.  I remember Greta reading those and after two days, she just stopped with no explanation.  Interesting.


She started going through Beth's journal too and stopped that as well.  Does make ya wonder.....


Yeah, how come they all provide about two then stop?  I was hoping Jossy would publish the rest of them.  I wonder if Art Wood has read all the ones released?  Maybe he could tell us if there are more revelations such as the one that Joran lies about his shoe size.

.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: SunnyinTX on July 08, 2006, 07:36:34 PM
Quote from: "JuJu"


I don't know, the only thing i remember is the pain in my brain!  It was like the Morton Salt Girl pee'd up my nose.


that's it :shock: ....I do need the DEPENDS now for sure!!! :D  :D  :D


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: ldstlou on July 08, 2006, 07:36:38 PM
Quote from: "ldstlou"
Quote from: "SunnyinTX"
Quote from: "ldstlou"


too cool!! I am excited!! I know about Arnold...sold a couple of houses there..have only been here 7 years but everyone talks about how it used to be "Hoosier"  haha it's come along way. Would be really fun to get together!!


Yes it used to be Hoosier!  LOL.....I was trying to be nice!  LOL.....well if this damn heat keeps up you will have to start loking for a house for me!!!  :shock:


rehabbing one now!! Was supposed to be long gone to paint...I AM SO TIRED OF PAINTING!! Almost done...hoping to have it on the market Thursday!!
We have had unusually nice weather here!! Only in 80's instead of 100!!


ps...never knew the word "hoosier" until I moved here...at first thought they were talking about basketball fans from Indy!!! haha


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: ldstlou on July 08, 2006, 07:37:38 PM
Quote from: "SunnyinTX"
Quote from: "JuJu"


I don't know, the only thing i remember is the pain in my brain!  It was like the Morton Salt Girl pee'd up my nose.


that's it :shock: ....I do need the DEPENDS now for sure!!! :D  :D  :D
told ya they need to start selling them in the monkey store!!! haha I went through a whole case between yesturday and today!!!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: beachwego on July 08, 2006, 07:37:53 PM
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "SunFreak2"
Deepak on his Tickle site today.
Ewwwhhh!!  Is he creepy or what?

http://connect.tickle.com/profile/index.html?id=WoKilqL4NTk5WOSr


Deepak has 2 friends listed, Koen and Kawish.  Kawish has a photo of himself with someone named Santos:

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e82/klaasend2/santos.jpg)


These guys look real gang-related....


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: AZLady on July 08, 2006, 07:38:33 PM
Quote from: "SunnyinTX"
Quote from: "terryd270"
I hated when Greta was going to read all the transcipts of all the suspects (Satish, Deepak and Joran) while they were in custody the first time.. She started to but we never got to Satish and I wonder why.. We got like two days worth and then nothings else.. Who stopped it??


Cohen would be my guess.....he still has lots of connections and probably a lot of favors to call in....and he would certainly not be above a little blackmail either...the slimebag!!


I would agree.  Cohen's influence and Posner's money are a powerful tag team.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: SunnyinTX on July 08, 2006, 07:39:46 PM
Quote from: "terryd270"
I just wanted to say my part about Garrison, Larry  and wanting to hear what he wasn't allowed to say on Greta..  It started out before she broke for a commercial as that Julia ratted out Joran to John Q. Kelly and that this same woman was writing a book on Natalee being pregnant by Jug."  and then Greta stopped him and went to a commercial..  I think that same night she had the old fool Julia on too, I guess she didn't want to upset Julia..  Good night and hope we hear something interesting..


I don't think Greta can get many people besides old leatherface to talk to her anymore....old leatherface and taco (where is that puke icon when you need it)......JQK only comes on when he wants something out.....Greta lost a lot more than her integrity..... :shock:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: beachwego on July 08, 2006, 07:40:07 PM
Quote from: "SunnyinTX"
Quote from: "beachwego"


awww...you waited for me!  You're such a sweetie...thanks!

You can certainly have a ride on that Harley....but you are braver than me!   I've got see his ability on it for awhile before I get on it with him!  It's his first motorcycle EVER....and..he had to have it because his buddies all have one.  WHATEVER!!


I told you I would :wink:   eeerrrr if this is Mr B's first motorcycle....I'll let you break it in!  :wink:  LOL


Smart girl!  :wink:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: SunnyinTX on July 08, 2006, 07:40:27 PM
Quote from: "AZLady"
I'm going to go water my posies, but I'll be back tonight and try to type what Art says for ya'll.  I can't call it transcribing (I dont' type that fast), but just what I can catch.  See ya.


Bye for now AZLady..... :wink:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Anna on July 08, 2006, 07:41:19 PM
.
Santos en ik = Santos and me.  Creeps me out I am starting to understand.

Yes, they do look gang-related so I tend to think this Santos is not the Dos Santos we are seeking.  Would the casino allow gang looking teenagers in to play?  Might that not frighten away the tourists?  Would me.   :wink:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: SunnyinTX on July 08, 2006, 07:43:15 PM
Quote from: "ldstlou"


rehabbing one now!! Was supposed to be long gone to paint...I AM SO TIRED OF PAINTING!! Almost done...hoping to have it on the market Thursday!!
We have had unusually nice weather here!! Only in 80's instead of 100!!


hahahaha....I love to paint....if I was there I'd help ya!!  I knwo y'all are having nice weather....bbbwwwwwaaaaaaaaaaaaaa :wink:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: SunFreak2 on July 08, 2006, 07:43:33 PM
Quote from: "terryd270"
I really wish that they would have Garrison, Larry on Dana show.. He wanted to tell all about Julia and Greta cut him off.. He would be up there with Beth for me wanting to listen to.. Well thats just my opinion but he would be one I want to hear the rest of the story from..


Hi Terry.  I just emailed Larry to ask him if he would consider it and sent him the info about the show tonight and Dana's web site link.  I think he would make a great interviewee.  He has done a lot on this case behind the scenes and is a fountain of information.  Perhaps he would be willing to share some of it with us.   :D


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: JuJu on July 08, 2006, 07:44:26 PM
Quote from: "beachwego"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "SunFreak2"
Deepak on his Tickle site today.
Ewwwhhh!!  Is he creepy or what?

http://connect.tickle.com/profile/index.html?id=WoKilqL4NTk5WOSr


Deepak has 2 friends listed, Koen and Kawish.  Kawish has a photo of himself with someone named Santos:

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e82/klaasend2/santos.jpg)


These guys look real gang-related....



evil is what hit me when i saw these two.  I think that there is more truth about the real Aruba in that pic than any I have seen before


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: SunnyinTX on July 08, 2006, 07:45:17 PM
Quote from: "ldstlou"


ps...never knew the word "hoosier" until I moved here...at first thought they were talking about basketball fans from Indy!!! haha


ROTFLMAO....down her we call um rednecks!!  LOL  but the area is really nice now....good shops, groceries and woohoo....Starbucks!  LOL


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Anna on July 08, 2006, 07:46:52 PM
.BBLater. . . .for radio broadcast which I believe to be at 9 Central Time

.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: ldstlou on July 08, 2006, 07:47:10 PM
Quote from: "SunnyinTX"
Quote from: "ldstlou"


rehabbing one now!! Was supposed to be long gone to paint...I AM SO TIRED OF PAINTING!! Almost done...hoping to have it on the market Thursday!!
We have had unusually nice weather here!! Only in 80's instead of 100!!


hahahaha....I love to paint....if I was there I'd help ya!!  I knwo y'all are having nice weather....bbbwwwwwaaaaaaaaaaaaaa :wink:



PLEASE!!!!! come help!!! hahaha I am SO TIRED of painting!! This is my first rehab so limited budget..so to save $$ decided I would paint the whole house myself!! We finished off basement...LITERALLY took me 10 gallons!! Only thing left is kitchen and living room..heading there tonight to do kitchen...go at night so my 6 year old can snuggle in sleeping bag and watch videos. Last Satuday there until 4am...will probably same tonight!! MAN I AM TIRED OF PAINTING!!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: SunnyinTX on July 08, 2006, 07:48:36 PM
Quote from: "AZLady"
Quote from: "SunnyinTX"


Cohen would be my guess.....he still has lots of connections and probably a lot of favors to call in....and he would certainly not be above a little blackmail either...the slimebag!!


I would agree.  Cohen's influence and Posner's money are a powerful tag team.


I think Cohen is someone JQK should depose if he hasn't....but he'd probably lie..... he orchestrated a lot of what happened not only after...but BEFORE the murderer was released.......I'd love to know the TRUTH about who brought him in and WHO paid him...that would tell a lot IMO....


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Easywriter on July 08, 2006, 07:49:01 PM
Quote from: "JuJu"
Quote from: "beachwego"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "SunFreak2"
Deepak on his Tickle site today.
Ewwwhhh!!  Is he creepy or what?

http://connect.tickle.com/profile/index.html?id=WoKilqL4NTk5WOSr


Deepak has 2 friends listed, Koen and Kawish.  Kawish has a photo of himself with someone named Santos:

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e82/klaasend2/santos.jpg)


These guys look real gang-related....



evil is what hit me when i saw these two.  I think that there is more truth about the real Aruba in that pic than any I have seen before


All the young people from Aruba that end up on the personal web sites look like a bunch of drug dealers and whacked out users to me.  I wonder if there is another side that we have not seen.  Place gives me the creeps now.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: ldstlou on July 08, 2006, 07:49:18 PM
Quote from: "SunFreak2"
Quote from: "terryd270"
I really wish that they would have Garrison, Larry on Dana show.. He wanted to tell all about Julia and Greta cut him off.. He would be up there with Beth for me wanting to listen to.. Well thats just my opinion but he would be one I want to hear the rest of the story from..


Hi Terry.  I just emailed Larry to ask him if he would consider it and sent him the info about the show tonight and Dana's web site link.  I think he would make a great interviewee.  He has done a lot on this case behind the scenes and is a fountain of information.  Perhaps he would be willing to share some of it with us.   :D


I don't know if I remeber who Larry is?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: SunnyinTX on July 08, 2006, 07:50:27 PM
Quote from: "Anna"
.BBLater. . . .for radio broadcast which I believe to be at 9 Central Time

.


Bye Anna....TTYL!!!!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: SunnyinTX on July 08, 2006, 07:52:28 PM
Quote from: "ldstlou"


PLEASE!!!!! come help!!! hahaha I am SO TIRED of painting!! This is my first rehab so limited budget..so to save $$ decided I would paint the whole house myself!! We finished off basement...LITERALLY took me 10 gallons!! Only thing left is kitchen and living room..heading there tonight to do kitchen...go at night so my 6 year old can snuggle in sleeping bag and watch videos. Last Satuday there until 4am...will probably same tonight!! MAN I AM TIRED OF PAINTING!!


that's quite an undertaking.....yikes on the basement.....LOL...we don't have basements in Houston...where is your rehab???


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: beachwego on July 08, 2006, 07:56:02 PM
Quote from: "mishy"
Quote from: "SunnyinTX"
Quote from: "mishy"
Quote from: "beachwego"
HI SUNNY IN TEXAS!!!

Do you remember the Dutch word that was used way back in the beginning to describe sex.....anything from cuddling to the full monty, I guess?

Well, my hubby just came home with his new toy...a Harley...so I gotta go help him unload it from the trailer.  

Safe my place...I'll be back.

Wait for me Sunny, okay?!!


Wasn't it vrijen?


I think that's it! Mishy you will now be known to me as Amazing Mishy! :wink:


 :lol:  :wink:


Hey Mishy!!!  That's it!  Good deal...thanks a lot!!!

this one little word...vrijen...caused so much controversary...and I think we still don't know what it really means.....


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Frijole on July 08, 2006, 07:56:05 PM
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "SunFreak2"
Deepak on his Tickle site today.
Ewwwhhh!!  Is he creepy or what?

http://connect.tickle.com/profile/index.html?id=WoKilqL4NTk5WOSr


Deepak has 2 friends listed, Koen and Kawish.  Kawish has a photo of himself with someone named Santos:

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e82/klaasend2/santos.jpg)


Hi all -just catching up....

Nice pendants --- guess they saved up the money they earned from their paper routes to buy these little guys huh?   :wink:  :wink:  :lol:  :lol:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: ldstlou on July 08, 2006, 07:56:46 PM
Quote from: "SunnyinTX"
Quote from: "ldstlou"


PLEASE!!!!! come help!!! hahaha I am SO TIRED of painting!! This is my first rehab so limited budget..so to save $$ decided I would paint the whole house myself!! We finished off basement...LITERALLY took me 10 gallons!! Only thing left is kitchen and living room..heading there tonight to do kitchen...go at night so my 6 year old can snuggle in sleeping bag and watch videos. Last Satuday there until 4am...will probably same tonight!! MAN I AM TIRED OF PAINTING!!


that's quite an undertaking.....yikes on the basement.....LOL...we don't have basements in Houston...where is your rehab???


here in the city...I am a city girl...we put up drywall...primed it but still sucked that old paint up!!! Finished off 2 rooms...one is just HUGE!! will make a great familyroom...even built in long sitting bench...will look good with cushions on it!! I know...I am nuts!!! I really think I am!! haha next one will HIRE!!! a painter!!! Getting to old for this haha  but I did lose 10 lbs in 2 weeks and getting arms of steel!! haha


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: terryd270 on July 08, 2006, 07:59:26 PM
SunFreak2,

Thanks, that would be GREAT.. That night of Greta he wanted to talk but Greta stopped it..  I think because he was going to discredit her source (Julia) and she didn't want that..  I also think that there is someone that is making people abstain from telling the truth and I would like to know who is giving this INJUNCTION, is it Joe T. ??


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Frijole on July 08, 2006, 08:00:19 PM
Quote from: "beachwego"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "SunFreak2"
Deepak on his Tickle site today.
Ewwwhhh!!  Is he creepy or what?

http://connect.tickle.com/profile/index.html?id=WoKilqL4NTk5WOSr


Deepak has 2 friends listed, Koen and Kawish.  Kawish has a photo of himself with someone named Santos:

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e82/klaasend2/santos.jpg)


These guys look real gang-related....


Either that or they are in the same dance routine.   :lol:  :lol:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: ldstlou on July 08, 2006, 08:00:23 PM
well I have stalled long enough!!! haha
so it's hi ho hi ho...it's off to paint I go!!
My little guy has been in the pool all day so hopefully he will fall asleep fast and NOT beg me to help!! He has good intentions though!!
Will catch whoever is awake about 3 or 4 am!! Will check in for the recap of the show before I head to bed!!
Night all....for now


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: SunFreak2 on July 08, 2006, 08:00:27 PM
LARRY GARRISON just emailed me back and said he would be willing to do Dana's show.  YIPPEE!!  He thinks Stephanie Good should be asked to do it with him.  I'll email her, now.

How do I put Dana in touch with Larry to select a date?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: terryd270 on July 08, 2006, 08:03:54 PM
SunFreak2,

Wow that was fast and thats the best news I have heard in a while..  I think Red and Easy might help on getting the parties together..  Now we might hear the real truth about Julia and the things that happen on that happy little island..


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Easywriter on July 08, 2006, 08:04:58 PM
Quote from: "SunFreak2"
LARRY GARRISON just emailed me back and said he would be willing to do Dana's show.  YIPPEE!!  He thinks Stephanie Good should be asked to do it with him.  I'll email her, now.

How do I put Dana in touch with Larry to select a date?


Just email him at dpretzer@yahoo.com and give him the details.  He will email them and get a telephone number.  It will get scheduled from there.

This is great!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: terryd270 on July 08, 2006, 08:06:15 PM
Well I need to go but this makes me feel that maybe we might find out some stuff that we only heard rumors of and now we might know the facts.. He is the one that has talked to all the suspects and others involved in this case..


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: terryd270 on July 08, 2006, 08:08:11 PM
Cheers to SunFreak2!!!!! I need to go and have a beer now..  I can't wait to hear what he wanted to say that night and was cut off...  He wanted to tell all but wasn't allowed..


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: friend of monkeys on July 08, 2006, 08:09:52 PM
Quote from: "SunFreak2"
Deepak on his Tickle site today.
Ewwwhhh!!  Is he creepy or what?

http://connect.tickle.com/profile/index.html?id=WoKilqL4NTk5WOSr


 :shock:  :shock:  :shock:

fom never leave the monkey zoo.....never leave the monkey zoo........
never never never ........ :shock:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: friend of monkeys on July 08, 2006, 08:11:54 PM
Quote from: "JuJu"
Quote from: "beachwego"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "SunFreak2"
Deepak on his Tickle site today.
Ewwwhhh!!  Is he creepy or what?

http://connect.tickle.com/profile/index.html?id=WoKilqL4NTk5WOSr


Deepak has 2 friends listed, Koen and Kawish.  Kawish has a photo of himself with someone named Santos:

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e82/klaasend2/santos.jpg)


These guys look real gang-related....



evil is what hit me when i saw these two.  I think that there is more truth about the real Aruba in that pic than any I have seen before




ummmmm....they look like terrorists!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: BTgirl on July 08, 2006, 08:13:06 PM
O/T

I just had a woman I found on the internet custom make a sock monkey for Bob, one of our computer guys at work who is a big Star Trek fan. The little tag reads "Captain Bob." :lol:  Is this guy cute or what?

(http://shutter02.pictures.aol.com/data/pictures/06/003/66/AF/1B/FC/dCBrJQswLH4882waPENjhpYR83w6XW160300.jpg)


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: friend of monkeys on July 08, 2006, 08:13:12 PM
Quote from: "SunnyinTX"
Quote from: "AZLady"
Quote from: "SunnyinTX"


Cohen would be my guess.....he still has lots of connections and probably a lot of favors to call in....and he would certainly not be above a little blackmail either...the slimebag!!


I would agree.  Cohen's influence and Posner's money are a powerful tag team.


I think Cohen is someone JQK should depose if he hasn't....but he'd probably lie..... he orchestrated a lot of what happened not only after...but BEFORE the murderer was released.......I'd love to know the TRUTH about who brought him in and WHO paid him...that would tell a lot IMO....



hey sunny.....me too


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Easywriter on July 08, 2006, 08:13:21 PM
Quote from: "terryd270"
Cheers to SunFreak2!!!!! I need to go and have a beer now..  I can't wait to hear what he wanted to say that night and was cut off...  He wanted to tell all but wasn't allowed..


I do remember that interview when he was cut short.  I bet he does have a story he wants to tell!

If I can help pull this together in any way, just let me know.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: terryd270 on July 08, 2006, 08:15:03 PM
I assume that most of the kids on that island are on some type of watch list here in the US.. I don't think any of these kids when they fly into Miami, get out of customs too fast..


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: beachwego on July 08, 2006, 08:17:45 PM
Quote from: "friend of monkeys"
Quote from: "SunFreak2"
Deepak on his Tickle site today.
Ewwwhhh!!  Is he creepy or what?

http://connect.tickle.com/profile/index.html?id=WoKilqL4NTk5WOSr


 :shock:  :shock:  :shock:

fom never leave the monkey zoo.....never leave the monkey zoo........
never never never ........ :shock:


Hi FOM!  How have you been?  It's great to see you...I've missed you!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: terryd270 on July 08, 2006, 08:19:18 PM
BTGirl, does Captain Bob have my toupee, I thought my dog stole it..


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Easywriter on July 08, 2006, 08:20:26 PM
Quote from: "SunFreak2"
LARRY GARRISON just emailed me back and said he would be willing to do Dana's show.  YIPPEE!!  He thinks Stephanie Good should be asked to do it with him.  I'll email her, now.

How do I put Dana in touch with Larry to select a date?


Have you put them together yet?  I just heard from Dana and he is awaiting your email!!!!!!!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: beachwego on July 08, 2006, 08:21:57 PM
Has anyone clicked on Dana's site yet.....the 16K Media Stream one?

the first time it said error so I tried again and there is a man talking about Microsoft & Intel...

I want to be sure I am at the right place....because last week I had trouble and the interview was half over before I got it working.

So if anyone can help, I sure would appreciate it....


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Easywriter on July 08, 2006, 08:22:59 PM
Captain Bob kinda scares me...  :shock:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: friend of monkeys on July 08, 2006, 08:23:29 PM
Quote from: "Easywriter"
Quote from: "terryd270"
Cheers to SunFreak2!!!!! I need to go and have a beer now..  I can't wait to hear what he wanted to say that night and was cut off...  He wanted to tell all but wasn't allowed..


I do remember that interview when he was cut short.  I bet he does have a story he wants to tell!

If I can help pull this together in any way, just let me know.


hey easy...maybe Dana can get him on next????
guy must be easily  bought  :lol: to open his trap


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: friend of monkeys on July 08, 2006, 08:26:26 PM
hey beaches!!!!!  things r good...mj still working on it...says he is okay....

i gotta go ...nite monkeys


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: SunFreak2 on July 08, 2006, 08:27:08 PM
Quote from: "Easywriter"
Quote from: "SunFreak2"
LARRY GARRISON just emailed me back and said he would be willing to do Dana's show.  YIPPEE!!  He thinks Stephanie Good should be asked to do it with him.  I'll email her, now.

How do I put Dana in touch with Larry to select a date?


Just email him at dpretzer@yahoo.com and give him the details.  He will email them and get a telephone number.  It will get scheduled from there.

This is great!


Thanks Easy.  I just wrote to Dana regarding Larry.  I'm excited.  :D


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: BTgirl on July 08, 2006, 08:29:52 PM
Quote from: "Easywriter"
Captain Bob kinda scares me...  :shock:


Perfect! The real Bob kinda scares me sometimes. :lol:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: terryd270 on July 08, 2006, 08:30:09 PM
Wow I guess I might have to go, its Mother Nature showing me a light show.. No lights flickering so I guess I'm ok so far..


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: BTgirl on July 08, 2006, 08:31:03 PM
Quote from: "terryd270"
BTGirl, does Captain Bob have my toupee, I thought my dog stole it..


Terry! I'll bet that's where the sock monkey lady got that one from! :shock:  :lol:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: terryd270 on July 08, 2006, 08:33:19 PM
Well it looks better on him than me, so he can keep it..


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Easywriter on July 08, 2006, 08:35:08 PM
(http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h122/EasyWriter/MonkeyBusiness.jpg)


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Easywriter on July 08, 2006, 08:38:14 PM
Quote from: "SunFreak2"
Quote from: "Easywriter"
Quote from: "SunFreak2"
LARRY GARRISON just emailed me back and said he would be willing to do Dana's show.  YIPPEE!!  He thinks Stephanie Good should be asked to do it with him.  I'll email her, now.

How do I put Dana in touch with Larry to select a date?


Just email him at dpretzer@yahoo.com and give him the details.  He will email them and get a telephone number.  It will get scheduled from there.

This is great!


Thanks Easy.  I just wrote to Dana regarding Larry.  I'm excited.  :D


Good!  I want to hear what the guy has to say too!

Man, we are all turning into Dana's best friend in the media world!  He is getting interviews no one else is getting!!!!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: BTgirl on July 08, 2006, 08:39:21 PM
Quote from: "Easywriter"
(http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h122/EasyWriter/MonkeyBusiness.jpg)


Hmmm....those guys kind of look familiar.

Wracking brain...thinking...where could I have seen them before? 8)


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: terryd270 on July 08, 2006, 08:40:42 PM
I think there are those that have a story to tell and this is what makes it great.. We know the questions to ask and they have the answers.. No more Julia, Joe, Tito, etc..  They can sink with their evil little island.. We are going to pulled the plug and watch it sink...


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: SunFreak2 on July 08, 2006, 08:42:22 PM
Quote from: "Easywriter"
(http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h122/EasyWriter/MonkeyBusiness.jpg)


No fair!  We needed a SPEW & CHOKE warning!

Great pic Easy.  I love it.
 :lol:   :lol:   :lol:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: terryd270 on July 08, 2006, 08:42:24 PM
BTGirl,

Those are your husbands raccoon friends that took my leather jacket and fake earrings..  I think that gold they are wearing came from my little motor cycle that I came to your house in and they took from me too..


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: terryd270 on July 08, 2006, 08:43:45 PM
Well I'm going and watch the storm outside, I guess it will get me ready for the hurricanes.. Take care and have a good night..


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Easywriter on July 08, 2006, 08:43:59 PM
Anyone listening to music tonight while waiting for the Art Wood interview?  I liked that discussion the other day, or night.  I'm still stuck on the oldies and listening to SIRIUS '60s!

~ I'm a wanderer ~
~ I'm the type a guy that likes ~
~ To wander 'round ~


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: BTgirl on July 08, 2006, 08:45:33 PM
Quote from: "terryd270"
BTGirl,

Those are your husbands raccoon friends that took my leather jacket and fake earrings..  I think that gold they are wearing came from my little motor cycle that I came to your house in and they took from me too..


Terry

I'm sending the possums out now to get your stuff back.

Wish them luck!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: SunFreak2 on July 08, 2006, 08:46:49 PM
Quote from: "Easywriter"
Quote from: "SunFreak2"
Quote from: "Easywriter"
Quote from: "SunFreak2"
LARRY GARRISON just emailed me back and said he would be willing to do Dana's show.  YIPPEE!!  He thinks Stephanie Good should be asked to do it with him.  I'll email her, now.

How do I put Dana in touch with Larry to select a date?


Just email him at dpretzer@yahoo.com and give him the details.  He will email them and get a telephone number.  It will get scheduled from there.

This is great!


Thanks Easy.  I just wrote to Dana regarding Larry.  I'm excited.  :D


Good!  I want to hear what the guy has to say too!

Man, we are all turning into Dana's best friend in the media world!  He is getting interviews no one else is getting!!!!


WOW.  I just received email from Dana.  He wants to have Larry on his next show!  I hope Larry can do it then.

Dana is starting the show early at 9:30 tonight.  Art Woord on at 10.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Easywriter on July 08, 2006, 08:49:42 PM
Quote from: "SunFreak2"
Quote from: "Easywriter"
Quote from: "SunFreak2"
Quote from: "Easywriter"
Quote from: "SunFreak2"
LARRY GARRISON just emailed me back and said he would be willing to do Dana's show.  YIPPEE!!  He thinks Stephanie Good should be asked to do it with him.  I'll email her, now.

How do I put Dana in touch with Larry to select a date?


Just email him at dpretzer@yahoo.com and give him the details.  He will email them and get a telephone number.  It will get scheduled from there.

This is great!


Thanks Easy.  I just wrote to Dana regarding Larry.  I'm excited.  :D


Good!  I want to hear what the guy has to say too!

Man, we are all turning into Dana's best friend in the media world!  He is getting interviews no one else is getting!!!!


WOW.  I just received email from Dana.  He wants to have Larry on his next show!  I hope Larry can do it then.

Dana is starting the show early at 9:30 tonight.  Art Woord on at 10.


Great!  Let's keep the story alive and get Dana some guest that can actually answer questions!  His show gives his guest a freedom they will never find elsewhere.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: beachwego on July 08, 2006, 08:57:23 PM
Quote from: "terryd270"
I think there are those that have a story to tell and this is what makes it great.. We know the questions to ask and they have the answers.. No more Julia, Joe, Tito, etc..  They can sink with their evil little island.. We are going to pulled the plug and watch it sink...



I hope he is full of juicy, gossipy info about Julia & her co-horts.  

First question:  Does he know anything about Jug pushing (NOT) Julia with that baby in her arms....and what is the real story behind her absurd allegation?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: terryd270 on July 08, 2006, 08:57:41 PM
I'm going out to get some chicken wings before the show, I'm thinking of hott, but if you want medium ok...  I already have some New Castle here so we are all ready..


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: klaasend on July 08, 2006, 08:59:44 PM
DANA will start the show at 9:30pm eastern and I'm guessing he'll be taking calls prior to Art Wood starting at 10pm

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e82/klaasend2/c-band.jpg)

This Saturday Dana's guest will be Art Wood

No Sunday show this week, I will be doing a Saturday show July 8th at 10pm est.
Guest - Art Wood Part 2 Of Our Discussion On the Holloway case.

http://bruinfan.sasktelwebsite.net/

Scroll down to Click here for a 16k Media Player Stream

Call in number before and after the interview is 306-842-7884


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Easywriter on July 08, 2006, 09:01:17 PM
Quote from: "beachwego"
Quote from: "terryd270"
I think there are those that have a story to tell and this is what makes it great.. We know the questions to ask and they have the answers.. No more Julia, Joe, Tito, etc..  They can sink with their evil little island.. We are going to pulled the plug and watch it sink...



I hope he is full of juicy, gossipy info about Julia & her co-horts.  

First question:  Does he know anything about Jug pushing (NOT) Julia with that baby in her arms....and what is the real story behind her absurd allegation?


Yeah, I want to hear the dirt on the people circulating around the fringe of this case.  There has always been something wrong with the reporting of this case and many players have interjected themselves and only confused issues.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Frijole on July 08, 2006, 09:04:35 PM
Remember when it was said that Larry G had a book deal with Joran?  Obviously this was part of getting Sporter to New York.... I'd like to know the details behind that...

Also, he supposedly chatted with Deepak who wanted a chitload of money... same .... give us the skinny


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Easywriter on July 08, 2006, 09:05:04 PM
Did anyone secretly like Abba and can you explain why?  For me I think it was the blonde and the way she moved…


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: terryd270 on July 08, 2006, 09:08:56 PM
Wow two hours he said his show for tonight  (Dana)..  I usually wait for the transcripts but tonight I will be here with my chicken wings and my beer..I bet other side is going crazy, they know that Larry knows things and Greta can't save them..


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: beachwego on July 08, 2006, 09:09:15 PM
Dana just said it would be a two hour show tonight!!!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: terryd270 on July 08, 2006, 09:10:02 PM
Dana is going to be replacing Greta soon..


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Kat_Gram on July 08, 2006, 09:13:48 PM
Quote from: "SunFreak2"
Quote from: "Easywriter"
(http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h122/EasyWriter/MonkeyBusiness.jpg)


No fair!  We needed a SPEW & CHOKE warning!

Great pic Easy.  I love it.
 :lol:   :lol:   :lol:

Those necklaces looks like they are made from the gold foil from chocolate bar wrapers........... or maybe I just need a choco bar.
Way to go Easy ! !
Wasn't there a Dos Santos who was one of the guys playing poker with Joran the Monday night ?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: San on July 08, 2006, 09:16:33 PM
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "SunFreak2"
Deepak on his Tickle site today.
Ewwwhhh!!  Is he creepy or what?

http://connect.tickle.com/profile/index.html?id=WoKilqL4NTk5WOSr


Deepak has 2 friends listed, Koen and Kawish.  Kawish has a photo of himself with someone named Santos:

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e82/klaasend2/santos.jpg)

I am behind.  They have the same type shirts and whatever piece of Jewelry they are wearing is the same but on guys is bigger.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Easywriter on July 08, 2006, 09:16:43 PM
I have cband on now and it sounds like those two guys on SNL!  lol


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: terryd270 on July 08, 2006, 09:19:56 PM
I now know more about video fans than I will ever need to know..  These guys are kinda boring..


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: beachwego on July 08, 2006, 09:20:16 PM
Quote from: "Easywriter"
Did anyone secretly like Abba and can you explain why?  For me I think it was the blonde and the way she moved…


Easy...this is a good website for the latest & greatest on celebrities and music artists.  This guy is real good about getting the newest stuff out...music upstreams, movie trailers & such.  I like reading it....

http://popbytes.com/


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Easywriter on July 08, 2006, 09:21:18 PM
I liked the talk about ball-bearings better.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: San on July 08, 2006, 09:23:40 PM
Quote from: "Frijole"


Either that or they are in the same dance routine.   :lol:  :lol:

 :lol:  :lol:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Easywriter on July 08, 2006, 09:25:21 PM
Quote from: "terryd270"
I now know more about video fans than I will ever need to know..  These guys are kinda boring..


zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

When I first tuned in I thought he said ball-breakers and I thought we were going to get a story!   :shock:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: terryd270 on July 08, 2006, 09:28:11 PM
Easywriter, thats funny.. I kinda was looking through the post today and I saw them talking about papa smurf and I was kinda upset until they I reread it and realized they were talking about snuff films..


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Frijole on July 08, 2006, 09:31:46 PM
Quote from: "Easywriter"
I liked the talk about ball-bearings better.


I use this time to do important things like clean the popcorn remnants out of my keyboard!!!!   :shock:  :shock:  :shock:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: terryd270 on July 08, 2006, 09:33:41 PM
I think he reads our blog..  I like him so far..  I want him on 7 days a week..


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: beachwego on July 08, 2006, 09:34:14 PM
Dana is on now...


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Tylergal on July 08, 2006, 09:36:55 PM
Would someone call and ask about the possibility of a snuff video from Art Wood. I do believe he is interested in talking about this.  Not sure,  but could be.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Tylergal on July 08, 2006, 09:37:24 PM
I cannot call, have a houesful of grandchildren and their noisy friends.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: terryd270 on July 08, 2006, 09:39:13 PM
Tylergal,

He is taking email also and I will send him an email with that question plus to tell him that he would be welcome to hear every night..


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Easywriter on July 08, 2006, 09:43:03 PM
Call-in!!!!!!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Frijole on July 08, 2006, 09:43:21 PM
Quote from: "Tylergal"
I cannot call, have a houesful of grandchildren and their noisy friends.


You mean you don't want to talk about snuff videos in front of your grandchildren?  lmao  If they only knew what grannie was up to.   :lol:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Frijole on July 08, 2006, 09:44:32 PM
I hope we find out about the damn ATM withdrawals.... did they really happen? ha


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Red on July 08, 2006, 09:46:32 PM
As long as we want huh? Don't say that Dana ... we will have you on for days ..

Dana-palooza.  :wink:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Sleuth on July 08, 2006, 09:49:00 PM
LOL Red - I was thinking the same thing.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: klaasend on July 08, 2006, 09:56:20 PM
Quote from: "Sleuth"
LOL Red - I was thinking the same thing.

I was glad to hear that the Winkler interview was taped, that way there won't be a rush to get done with Art.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Sleuth on July 08, 2006, 09:57:23 PM
C-Band Talk Network (Dana Pretzer)
Art Wood Part 2 Of Our Discussion On the Holloway case.
http://bruinfan.sasktelwebsite.net/

PRE-SHOW Questions from Callers:
Caller #1- Where comment that blood in K2 vehicle came from - what is the proof?  

Caller #2- Ask about ATM redrawals that Paulus supposedly made?

Caller #3- When Jossy was on, he commented about a 7 year old boy at painted rocks area - did not add up as painting was a year ago - ask Art about the painted rock.

Caller #4- You are doing a great job, we appreciate what you are doing.

Caller #5- There was the letter asking that KJ and Dompig be replaced - what is the follow-up.  (Dana will ask Art's thoughts about Dompig leaving the police force).

Caller #6- Plastic bag in video #24 - does he know if it was retrieved and what the contencts were.

Caller #7- Asked abouth the 8 1/2 minute phone call between Joran and Deepak - could have that been a video transmission.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: AZLady on July 08, 2006, 09:58:48 PM
Art, would you comment on reports that Dompig has left the police force?  Do you attribute this to the B type police work?  Doesn't know but word was that Dompig was going to be fired, so Art doesn't know if Dompig is retiring or was fired.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Buckeye on July 08, 2006, 10:00:16 PM
Quote from: "Sleuth"
C-Band Talk Network (Dana Pretzer)
Art Wood Part 2 Of Our Discussion On the Holloway case.
http://bruinfan.sasktelwebsite.net/

PRE-SHOW Questions from Callers:
Caller #1- Where comment that blood in K2 vehicle came from - what is the proof?  

Caller #2- Ask about ATM redrawals that Paulus supposedly made?

Caller #3- When Jossy was on, he commented about a 7 year old boy at painted rocks area - did not add up as painting was a year ago - ask Art about the painted rock.

Caller #4- You are doing a great job, we appreciate what you are doing.

Caller #5- There was the letter asking that KJ and Dompig be replaced - what is the follow-up.  (Dana will ask Art's thoughts about Dompig leaving the police force).

Caller #6- Plastic bag in video #24 - does he know if it was retrieved and what the contencts were.

Caller #7- Asked abouth the 8 1/2 minute phone call between Joran and Deepak - could have that been a video transmission.



Wow Sleuth...Dana did mention he needed a producer........


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: SunnyinTX on July 08, 2006, 10:00:49 PM
Quote from: "Frijole"


Hi all -just catching up....

Nice pendants --- guess they saved up the money they earned from their paper routes to buy these little guys huh?   :wink:  :wink:  :lol:  :lol:


Hi Beans!!  :D   pages behind but I am catching up


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: klaasend on July 08, 2006, 10:01:41 PM
Guess which caller was me??  :wink:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: terryd270 on July 08, 2006, 10:02:14 PM
So it will be good if the case is closed then the FBI can start looking..


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Buckeye on July 08, 2006, 10:03:03 PM
Quote from: "klaasend"
Guess which caller was me??  :wink:


#2  Paulus and ATM


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: klaasend on July 08, 2006, 10:03:21 PM
Quote from: "Buckeye"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Guess which caller was me??  :wink:


#2  Paulus and ATM

Nope


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: tcumom on July 08, 2006, 10:03:28 PM
Quote from: "klaasend"
Guess which caller was me??  :wink:

#7 ~ about the 8 1/2 minute phone transmission  :?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: terryd270 on July 08, 2006, 10:03:48 PM
I don't think Aruba will ever closed this case..  They don't want the FBI looking at what went on..


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: klaasend on July 08, 2006, 10:04:18 PM
Quote from: "tcumom"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Guess which caller was me??  :wink:

#7 ~ about the 8 1/2 minute phone transmission  :?


Bingo  :lol:  Did I sound silly?  I didn't hear myself, went into another room.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Buckeye on July 08, 2006, 10:04:19 PM
Quote from: "tcumom"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Guess which caller was me??  :wink:

#7 ~ about the 8 1/2 minute phone transmission  :?


Yeh...can I change my answer to this one???


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Buckeye on July 08, 2006, 10:05:17 PM
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "tcumom"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Guess which caller was me??  :wink:

#7 ~ about the 8 1/2 minute phone transmission  :?


Bingo  :lol:  Did I sound silly?  I didn't hear myself, went into another room.


You sounded fine.  I was trying to remember which caller did not have a southern accent.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: mrs. red on July 08, 2006, 10:05:38 PM
Hey Y'all....


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: klaasend on July 08, 2006, 10:06:14 PM
Quote from: "Buckeye"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "tcumom"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Guess which caller was me??  :wink:

#7 ~ about the 8 1/2 minute phone transmission  :?


Bingo  :lol:  Did I sound silly?  I didn't hear myself, went into another room.


You sounded fine.  I was trying to remember which caller did not have a southern accent.

Yeah darn it, forgot  to fake an accent, lol  :lol:  :lol:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Buckeye on July 08, 2006, 10:06:46 PM
Can we actually get an opinion from some legal person regarding what recourse the FBI has and what it's called?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: tcumom on July 08, 2006, 10:06:53 PM
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "tcumom"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Guess which caller was me??  :wink:

#7 ~ about the 8 1/2 minute phone transmission  :?


Bingo  :lol:  Did I sound silly?  I didn't hear myself, went into another room.

You sounded GREAT ~ just like you really were having a *live* conversation with him ~ kinda mellow, AND you knew what you were talking about!  Nice one, Klass  :D  :D

A woman of many talents  :wink:  :wink:  8)  :lol:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Sleuth on July 08, 2006, 10:07:28 PM
Art Wood:
Follow the lies and solve the crime


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: klaasend on July 08, 2006, 10:07:30 PM
Thanks tcumom  :lol:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: klaasend on July 08, 2006, 10:08:16 PM
No way to verify ATM withdrawals.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: San on July 08, 2006, 10:09:22 PM
Quote from: "klaasend"
No way to verify ATM withdrawals.

Bummer :cry:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: terryd270 on July 08, 2006, 10:09:24 PM
No way to get bank statements I guess..


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Frijole on July 08, 2006, 10:10:38 PM
Quote from: "terryd270"
No way to get bank statements I guess..


Yeah, cuz that would require work on someone's part.

And we don't want to prove Paulus' lied.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Anna on July 08, 2006, 10:10:38 PM
Quote from: "Buckeye"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "tcumom"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Guess which caller was me??  :wink:

#7 ~ about the 8 1/2 minute phone transmission  :?


Bingo  :lol:  Did I sound silly?  I didn't hear myself, went into another room.


You sounded fine.  I was trying to remember which caller did not have a southern accent.



Buckeye,

No one who called had a southern accent!!   8)

Klaas, you sounded wonderful!  You should call often.

.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: klaasend on July 08, 2006, 10:12:17 PM
Thanks Anna - I wasn't sure if I should get into the Snuff videos though. I didn't feel comfortable asking about it on the air.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: igsigs on July 08, 2006, 10:12:42 PM
5 witnesses to Paulus 4am pick-up statement.

Beth, Jug and 3 friends.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Buckeye on July 08, 2006, 10:12:53 PM
Quote from: "Anna"
Quote from: "Buckeye"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "tcumom"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Guess which caller was me??  :wink:

#7 ~ about the 8 1/2 minute phone transmission  :?


Bingo  :lol:  Did I sound silly?  I didn't hear myself, went into another room.


You sounded fine.  I was trying to remember which caller did not have a southern accent.



Buckeye,

No one who called had a southern accent!!   8)

Klaas, you sounded wonderful!  You should call often.

.



Maybe I should have said I was listening for the West coast accent  :D


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Anna on July 08, 2006, 10:14:22 PM
Quote from: "klaasend"
Thanks Anna - I wasn't sure if I should get into the Snuff videos though. I didn't feel comfortable asking about it on the air.



Right,
Let's start off with a video period because I think that is prolly likely.  Sure hope the rest is just our dread talking.  But it would not be at all unreasonable to think they took photos or a video since there is a history of their doing so and they have connections.

.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: terryd270 on July 08, 2006, 10:14:27 PM
We need more than a few hours...


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: klaasend on July 08, 2006, 10:15:17 PM
Somewhere around the 8th -11th of June it was announced that blood was found in the Kalpoe vehicle.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: terryd270 on July 08, 2006, 10:16:05 PM
Here is my email to Dana..


First time listener and I enjoy so far.. I would loved to have a program as yours to listen to on a daily basis..  
 
 
Art:  We know there was talk about these kids watching porno and actually taking pictures of themselves in some of these shows.. What is the chances of them doing a Snuff film and are they out there or are they Urban legends?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: San on July 08, 2006, 10:16:33 PM
Art said he has a friend in the police force and that friend said they did find blood in Deepak's car.  Not question in their mind that it was blood.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: SunnyinTX on July 08, 2006, 10:17:36 PM
Did anyone ask about the announcement that something bad happened to Natalee and one of the suspects was leading them to her body?  Was either of the brothers on suicide watch while in custody?  Where is the gardner?  The one who made a statement in front of the judge.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: AZLady on July 08, 2006, 10:18:33 PM
Oh man.  I lost internet connection to here and Pretzer's show.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: mrs. red on July 08, 2006, 10:18:37 PM
Pages missing.... not a professional investigation...

look at all the statements they appear incomplete and they try to take the focus off of Joran as a suspect...

looks like sabatoge....


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Frijole on July 08, 2006, 10:18:56 PM
So if someone in Forensics in Aruba said that there was blood in the car.... then at least ONE person in ALE knows there is a cover up.  Probably more than that.  Why aren't ANY of them coming forward?  Seems like someone would crack as this drags on and on..... I know, fear... but this insane.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: SunnyinTX on July 08, 2006, 10:19:06 PM
What is Dana's email address please?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: klaasend on July 08, 2006, 10:19:23 PM
Jan Van Der Straaten, Dennis Jacobs, Dompig all sabotaged the case.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: igsigs on July 08, 2006, 10:19:42 PM
Art Wood

Joran confessed on 6/9 per VDStraaten. When interrogation was transcribed on 6/13 pages were missing.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Buckeye on July 08, 2006, 10:19:52 PM
So Joran confessed the 9th and statement typed the 13th.  Remember the only picture of a beaten down Joran?  The only picture before or since where he looks like he had been crying?  Wasn't that the 9th?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: terryd270 on July 08, 2006, 10:20:07 PM
Klaasend I would put Karen J. with that list.. I don't trust her..


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: mrs. red on July 08, 2006, 10:20:13 PM
Quote from: "SunnyinTX"
Did anyone ask about the announcement that something bad happened to Natalee and one of the suspects was leading them to her body?  Was either of the brothers on suicide watch while in custody?  Where is the gardner?  The one who made a statement in front of the judge.


Sunny after the show, you should call him and ask..


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: San on July 08, 2006, 10:20:31 PM
Van der Straaten told other police officials that Joran had confessed that Natalee was dead.

All the statements taken by Dennis Jacobs are all incomplete and were sabotaged.

In October when Dave and Art were in Aruba he saw Van der Straaten in Dennis Jacobs office. A police officer said he comes in at least twice a week and talks to these guys.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: mrs. red on July 08, 2006, 10:21:43 PM
can someone please give us Dana's email address??


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: SunnyinTX on July 08, 2006, 10:22:00 PM
Quote from: "mrs. red"
Quote from: "SunnyinTX"
Did anyone ask about the announcement that something bad happened to Natalee and one of the suspects was leading them to her body?  Was either of the brothers on suicide watch while in custody?  Where is the gardner?  The one who made a statement in front of the judge.


Sunny after the show, you should call him and ask..


Hi Mrs. Red...if I could get his email addy I would email him.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: terryd270 on July 08, 2006, 10:22:18 PM
dpretzer@yahoo.com


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: mrs. red on July 08, 2006, 10:23:19 PM
Quote from: "SunnyinTX"
Quote from: "mrs. red"
Quote from: "SunnyinTX"
Did anyone ask about the announcement that something bad happened to Natalee and one of the suspects was leading them to her body?  Was either of the brothers on suicide watch while in custody?  Where is the gardner?  The one who made a statement in front of the judge.


Sunny after the show, you should call him and ask..


Hi Mrs. Red...if I could get his email addy I would email him.


I saw that you asked, if someone doesn't post it soon, I will ask red... I don't have it...but if you don't get it... call him...


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: klaasend on July 08, 2006, 10:23:53 PM
Quote from: "terryd270"
dpretzer@yahoo.com


In case you missed it ^


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: mrs. red on July 08, 2006, 10:24:04 PM
Quote from: "terryd270"
dpretzer@yahoo.com


thank you Terry!!!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: terryd270 on July 08, 2006, 10:24:31 PM
I think Dana is reading his email as we listen to his program..  So keep asking the question through his email:  dpretzer@yahoo.com


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: mrs. red on July 08, 2006, 10:25:33 PM
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "terryd270"
dpretzer@yahoo.com


In case you missed it ^


thank Klaasend....

OMG>.. Koen... involved! it's amazing how much info we have discussed that seems to be completely correct!!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: terryd270 on July 08, 2006, 10:25:46 PM
I told you about Karen J. was part of the coverup..


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Tylergal on July 08, 2006, 10:25:53 PM
Thank, Terri, Klaas, Frijole, Anna, Igsigs, Sleuth, et al.

Koen Gotenbos:  One alibi is no alibi.  :shock: There you go!  That's the alibi that was not correct.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: SunnyinTX on July 08, 2006, 10:25:53 PM
Quote from: "terryd270"
dpretzer@yahoo.com


thanks Terry....and thanks Mrs. Red :wink:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: igsigs on July 08, 2006, 10:26:16 PM
Janssen resisted re-interview of Koen.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: SunnyinTX on July 08, 2006, 10:26:38 PM
Quote from: "mrs. red"
Quote from: "SunnyinTX"
Quote from: "mrs. red"
Quote from: "SunnyinTX"
Did anyone ask about the announcement that something bad happened to Natalee and one of the suspects was leading them to her body?  Was either of the brothers on suicide watch while in custody?  Where is the gardner?  The one who made a statement in front of the judge.


Sunny after the show, you should call him and ask..


Hi Mrs. Red...if I could get his email addy I would email him.


I saw that you asked, if someone doesn't post it soon, I will ask red... I don't have it...but if you don't get it... call him...


THANK YOU Mrs. Red.....terry psoted it...and I emailed Dana....


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: AZLady on July 08, 2006, 10:26:58 PM
Okay...trying again to pick this up.  Coverup is a fair term; sabotage of the case.  Dana asked about the painted rocks.  Jossy said the visibility team was painting rocks bec. they found body of a 7 year old boy.  What the hell are the painted rocks about and was the plastic bag analyzed.  Art doesn't know.  He's seen the Chicago videos and says a 7 year old child was found in dunes but before Natalee disappearance.  The person who took the videos claims he took them June 11, so there is no reason for the videos to be involved with the 7 yr old boy who was found a year previously.  He's asked Dave to have the FBI check this out. This is 50 yards from where he found the belt and near where Dave found the policeman with his trunk up who sped away when Dave approached him.

Dave and Art met with the PM and Anelin Flannagin who quit the case, the asst. prosecutor.  met with her for hours late at night. We discussed that we weren't comfortable with what investigative team were doing and we wanted the Prosecution team replaced.  She told us that she examined Koen's testimony early on who concocted an alibi for Joran the night after Natalee disapeared He said he had a tennis match wl Joran and that was lie.  She wanted Koen brought back in because he lied for Joran.  When she pushed for that she got resistance and Koen's father was wealthy man.  The word was that Paulus borrowed Koen's boat on the night of May 30 to dispose of Natalee's body.  They had informtion Koen was ready to crack.  He was so afraid of being arreted he was sleeping with his mother.  They went and talked to his father and no one has ever interviewed Koen.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: SunnyinTX on July 08, 2006, 10:27:14 PM
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "terryd270"
dpretzer@yahoo.com


In case you missed it ^


thanks Klaas I got it :wink:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Frijole on July 08, 2006, 10:27:23 PM
It is obvious now that Karin J is in on the coverup.

Koen Gottenbos should have been arrested for lying to the polis.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: mrs. red on July 08, 2006, 10:27:38 PM
Quote from: "SunnyinTX"
Quote from: "terryd270"
dpretzer@yahoo.com


thanks Terry....and thanks Mrs. Red :wink:


I need to stop being such a loser... not having that address!!!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Anna on July 08, 2006, 10:28:00 PM
Quote from: "igsigs"
Janssen resisted re-interview of Koen.


Janssen has resisted everything, Igs!

 :evil:

.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: AZLady on July 08, 2006, 10:28:20 PM
The complicity goes across the board in this case.  Will heads ever roll in this cover up?  I kind of doubt it.  It's difficult for Arubans to push for the truth here because it will make their administration look real bad.  The corruption is huge.  If you have friends in high places there, you can get things done.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Anna on July 08, 2006, 10:29:21 PM
.
Dana is going to block my email.  I have sent him four already so he has plenty of questions, mine mostly about holding them accountable for the cover up.

.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: AZLady on July 08, 2006, 10:29:25 PM
At least three officers have given the Aruban police a bad name and they deserve better.  Talk to the chief who is retiring and I suspect he is disgusted and has a lot of information bout why this failed.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Lala'sMom on July 08, 2006, 10:29:31 PM
Quote from: "Tylergal"
Thank, Terri, Klaas, Frijole, Anna, Igsigs, Sleuth, et al.

Koen Gotenbos:  One alibi is no alibi.  :shock: There you go!  That's the alibi that was not correct.


Shades of Shango!  :shock:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: terryd270 on July 08, 2006, 10:29:42 PM
I betcha that Joe T. is fit to be tied..


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: crazybabyborg on July 08, 2006, 10:29:43 PM
Just got here.is it over? :cry:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Frijole on July 08, 2006, 10:30:45 PM
Quote from: "terryd270"
I betcha that Joe T. is fit to be tied..


I hope the judge in New York is listening to this!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Anna on July 08, 2006, 10:30:45 PM
.
Mrs Red,
The email contact information is on the website.

I just click there.

.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: AZLady on July 08, 2006, 10:31:13 PM
The 8 1/2 min. cell phone call happened at 4 am on May 29?  The cell phone records were never turned over to the Holoway Twitty's or their attorneys.  I saw the phone records of May 30 with only 4 or 5 calls on there.  Koen has a little brother who was interviewed by police shortly after disappearance.  He says his cell phone was stolen at school on May 29 and Art finds this difficult to believe.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: mrs. red on July 08, 2006, 10:31:20 PM
Quote from: "crazybabyborg"
Just got here.is it over? :cry:



It's close... i will need to listen again...


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: terryd270 on July 08, 2006, 10:31:30 PM
He can't let him go, he has to have Art back..


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: SunnyinTX on July 08, 2006, 10:31:31 PM
Quote from: "mrs. red"
Quote from: "SunnyinTX"
Quote from: "terryd270"
dpretzer@yahoo.com


thanks Terry....and thanks Mrs. Red :wink:


I need to stop being such a loser... not having that address!!!


Don't be silly.....I am working with one hand and am so SLOW


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: crazybabyborg on July 08, 2006, 10:31:37 PM
If it's still on, please somebody, give me a link?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Lala'sMom on July 08, 2006, 10:31:48 PM
Quote from: "crazybabyborg"
Just got here.is it over? :cry:


Not yet. Hi CBB.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Frijole on July 08, 2006, 10:31:50 PM
Guess the refugees got a question in.... Natalee's computer... ye gad.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: igsigs on July 08, 2006, 10:31:55 PM
Sander said his cell phone was stolen at school?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: mrs. red on July 08, 2006, 10:32:03 PM
Quote from: "Anna"
.
Mrs Red,
The email contact information is on the website.

I just click there.

.


Thanks Anna....


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Lala'sMom on July 08, 2006, 10:32:44 PM
Quote from: "igsigs"
Sander said his cell phone was stolen at school?


I thought Art said it was Koen's younger brother. Maybe I heard wrong.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: SunnyinTX on July 08, 2006, 10:32:49 PM
Quote from: "Frijole"
Quote from: "terryd270"
I betcha that Joe T. is fit to be tied..


I hope the judge in New York is listening to this!


Let's make sure JQK gets it :wink:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Anna on July 08, 2006, 10:33:05 PM
Quote from: "igsigs"
Sander said his cell phone was stolen at school?


On SUNDAY??

.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Frijole on July 08, 2006, 10:33:54 PM
Quote from: "Anna"
Quote from: "igsigs"
Sander said his cell phone was stolen at school?


On SUNDAY??

.


Good catch.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: crazybabyborg on July 08, 2006, 10:34:27 PM
Got it.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Lala'sMom on July 08, 2006, 10:35:10 PM
Why does Dennis Jacobs keep coming up in this conversation???  Oh wait I know, he's the major player in the cover up.  How stupid of me.   :roll:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: AZLady on July 08, 2006, 10:35:33 PM
Natalee's computer was not analyzed.  She did not have a laptop with her.  She shared her computer with her mother and Matt.  She left her cellphone in her room.  Police released info that when Joran got home at 4 am he accessed a porno site.  Art thinks that strange.  Joran says it takes him a case of beer to get tipsy.  He's no cub scout.

Was there an FBi agent in thelobby of the hotel the night she vanished?  No, I don't think so.  I haven't heard that one.

What do you know abot the other girls that Joran used a date rape drug with them?  The girl that came forward is a juvenile.  She identified two others and police took statements from the.  In sept. 2005 they all withdrew their statements.  The one girl told an acquaintance that she withdrew her statement after being harrassed by Dennis Jacobs.  I was to meet with this girl twice and both times she didn't....(missed that).  She gave her story to a child advocate, part of legal system there.  Her attorney said she was date raped by Joran and his friends.  The prosecutor told the attorney she withdrew her statement.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Buckeye on July 08, 2006, 10:35:34 PM
Maybe they went to Koen and Sander's house.  Natalee got the call off from Sander's phone??? or Sander was at Jorans??


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: AZLady on July 08, 2006, 10:38:16 PM
Any info on bones found?  We tried to follow up on that and they did not turn them in to a medical examiner.  One officer took a bone to a clinic and the dr. said it was a donkey bone.  Another bone found in Venezuela was an arm bone and hand.  Send to Caracas for investigation.  When it got there they said it was a mannequin.  Caracas said we sent it, don't know what happened to it.  Art saw pictures of bone, and couldn't get over how it turned into a mannequin.  Lots of bizarre things in this case. Goes back that Natalee was seen last alive with these three boys.  They lies about dropping her off.  You follow the lies, you can usually solve the case.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: mrs. red on July 08, 2006, 10:38:38 PM
so that was a human arm...... I cannot believe all that we are hearing... OMG... how can they get closure with all the cover up? :twisted:   :twisted:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Frijole on July 08, 2006, 10:38:48 PM
Quote from: "Buckeye"
Maybe they went to Koen and Sander's house.  Natalee got the call off from Sander's phone??? or Sander was at Jorans??


Could be!  Interesting that a well connected, successful businessman would sell that house, the car, the boat and flee with his family to the Netherlands... got something to hide?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: terryd270 on July 08, 2006, 10:38:48 PM
BACK TO THE THREE PIMPS..  Thank God for people like Dana, Jossy and Art...


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: AZLady on July 08, 2006, 10:39:45 PM
Now talking about the Mary Winkler case.  How difficult is it to help someone who spends their life helping others?  Okay, now talking about Winkler case, so I'll quit reporting.  Over and out.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Anna on July 08, 2006, 10:39:48 PM
Quote from: "Buckeye"
Maybe they went to Koen and Sander's house.  Natalee got the call off from Sander's phone??? or Sander was at Jorans??



I would vote for being at Joren's OR he received a copy of the video on his cell phone???


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Buckeye on July 08, 2006, 10:40:03 PM
Quote from: "Frijole"
Quote from: "Buckeye"
Maybe they went to Koen and Sander's house.  Natalee got the call off from Sander's phone??? or Sander was at Jorans??


Could be!  Interesting that a well connected, successful businessman would sell that house, the car, the boat and flee with his family to the Netherlands... got something to hide?


Plus, didn't his mom have a dress shop??


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: BTgirl on July 08, 2006, 10:40:04 PM
Doesn't hearing all that make you so furious that you feel like your head is going to explode?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Anna on July 08, 2006, 10:40:36 PM
Quote from: "Buckeye"
Maybe they went to Koen and Sander's house.  Natalee got the call off from Sander's phone??? or Sander was at Jorans??


Or he received a copy of the video??


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: terryd270 on July 08, 2006, 10:41:09 PM
I feel so sorry for Beth and Dave what they are going through.. They had to deal with the death of their daughter and then all this other &(&(&( from Aruba.. Kinda hard to feel too much compassion for Aruba..


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Buckeye on July 08, 2006, 10:41:11 PM
Quote from: "Anna"
Quote from: "Buckeye"
Maybe they went to Koen and Sander's house.  Natalee got the call off from Sander's phone??? or Sander was at Jorans??



I would vote for being at Joren's OR he received a copy of the video on his cell phone???


Or they borrowed his cell phone because it had the best video...then tossed it in the ocean??


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: AZLady on July 08, 2006, 10:41:12 PM
I missed the middle of the interview, but from what I gather, the best way for Beth and Dave to get justice for Natalee is to have the FBI take over this case.  That can only happen when Aruba closes the case.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: AZSunny on July 08, 2006, 10:41:24 PM
Quote from: "AZLady"
Now talking about the Mary Winkler case.  How difficult is it to help someone who spends their life helping others?  Okay, now talking about Winkler case, so I'll quit reporting.  Over and out.


AZ Lady...thank you so much, missed so much of this, and you filled in everything beautifully. !


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: mrs. red on July 08, 2006, 10:41:43 PM
Quote from: "AZLady"
Now talking about the Mary Winkler case.  How difficult is it to help someone who spends their life helping others?  Okay, now talking about Winkler case, so I'll quit reporting.  Over and out.



thanks for all of that transcribing AZ and San.....


I am going to hang out and listen to the Winkler case... that one isn't like Natalee... but it's interesting...


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Frijole on July 08, 2006, 10:41:45 PM
Quote from: "Buckeye"
Quote from: "Frijole"
Quote from: "Buckeye"
Maybe they went to Koen and Sander's house.  Natalee got the call off from Sander's phone??? or Sander was at Jorans??


Could be!  Interesting that a well connected, successful businessman would sell that house, the car, the boat and flee with his family to the Netherlands... got something to hide?


Plus, didn't his mom have a dress shop??


I was thinking that was Lorenzo's mom but... heck...I get so confused with all the characters in this case.  lol


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: San on July 08, 2006, 10:41:52 PM
Quote from: "Buckeye"
Maybe they went to Koen and Sander's house.  Natalee got the call off from Sander's phone??? or Sander was at Jorans??

I so mad I missed 20 minutes of the interview.  This is what I'm thinking that she made the phone call from Sander's phone.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: crazybabyborg on July 08, 2006, 10:42:05 PM
Until the podcast is available, I'm going back to catch up on your comments while the show was on. Anything in particular stand out tonight? I'm particularly interested in Art's comments about the phone call from Nat to Beth..........


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Lala'sMom on July 08, 2006, 10:42:24 PM
Quote from: "Lala'sMom"
Quote from: "igsigs"
Sander said his cell phone was stolen at school?


I thought Art said it was Koen's younger brother. Maybe I heard wrong.


I am sorry Igsigs.  I am a bit off my game tonight.  You were right, I mixed up my names.  Please excuse.  I will go back to the corner now.  How embarrasing.  :oops:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Frijole on July 08, 2006, 10:42:36 PM
Quote from: "BTgirl"
Doesn't hearing all that make you so furious that you feel like your head is going to explode?


And ya wonder why Jug looked like he was going to explode and why he made the comment about shocking the world... hmmmm


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Tylergal on July 08, 2006, 10:43:17 PM
Quote from: "Buckeye"
Quote from: "Anna"
Quote from: "Buckeye"
Maybe they went to Koen and Sander's house.  Natalee got the call off from Sander's phone??? or Sander was at Jorans??



I would vote for being at Joren's OR he received a copy of the video on his cell phone???


Or they borrowed his cell phone because it had the best video...then tossed it in the ocean??


Or placed it in Momma Kalpoe's chicken coop.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Anna on July 08, 2006, 10:43:31 PM
Quote from: "mrs. red"
so that was a human arm...... I cannot believe all that we are hearing... OMG... how can they get closure with all the cover up? :twisted:   :twisted:



I don't think they are going to and all our wishing they would will not make it so.   :( And even worse, it seems that those who sabatoged all this are going to just get away with it!  I can't believe it!!!   :shock:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: igsigs on July 08, 2006, 10:43:41 PM
Quote from: "BTgirl"
Doesn't hearing all that make you so furious that you feel like your head is going to explode?


Yes. The number of people willing to lie in this case is amazing.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Buckeye on July 08, 2006, 10:44:15 PM
Quote from: "AZLady"
I missed the middle of the interview, but from what I gather, the best way for Beth and Dave to get justice for Natalee is to have the FBI take over this case.  That can only happen when Aruba closes the case.


I wish we actually had the statute or whatever that states this.  We might have to be "invited" to view the case. That didn't work out too well the last time.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Tylergal on July 08, 2006, 10:44:25 PM
Quote from: "Lala'sMom"
Quote from: "Lala'sMom"
Quote from: "igsigs"
Sander said his cell phone was stolen at school?


I thought Art said it was Koen's younger brother. Maybe I heard wrong.


I am sorry Igsigs.  I am a bit off my game tonight.  You were right, I mixed up my names.  Please excuse.  I will go back to the corner now.  How embarrasing.  :oops:


Xander (Sander) Alexander --- is Koen's younger brother as far as I know.  Did something change?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: terryd270 on July 08, 2006, 10:46:02 PM
I'm going to bed now but it was very informative and kinda what we all suspected.. It was nice to have a sanity check with some of the rumors that actually turned out to be fact.. I hope they have Art back and now that we got Larry Garrison going on, we will have a lot of facts for John Q. Kelly to follow through with.. I guess the ATM is a non_issue, your not going to get any statements out of the Dutch or Aruba, I can almost say that for 100% sure..  Art made a point is who is on the case now that was on the case in the beginning, they are the bad cops...


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: AZSunny on July 08, 2006, 10:46:12 PM
Quote from: "Anna"
Quote from: "mrs. red"
so that was a human arm...... I cannot believe all that we are hearing... OMG... how can they get closure with all the cover up? :twisted:   :twisted:



I don't think they are going to and all our wishing they would will not make it so.   :( And even worse, it seems that those who sabatoged all this are going to just get away with it!  I can't believe it!!!   :shock:


and Caracas said it was a mannequin>   can't they tell a human bone?  This makes me sick to my stomach.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: igsigs on July 08, 2006, 10:46:31 PM
Quote from: "Lala'sMom"
Quote from: "Lala'sMom"
Quote from: "igsigs"
Sander said his cell phone was stolen at school?


I thought Art said it was Koen's younger brother. Maybe I heard wrong.


I am sorry Igsigs.  I am a bit off my game tonight.  You were right, I mixed up my names.  Please excuse.  I will go back to the corner now.  How embarrasing.  :oops:

No problem Lala's. If i apologized for every mistake i made on this board we would have exceeded bandwith months ago :wink:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: San on July 08, 2006, 10:48:00 PM
Klaas was Sander the one who was holding the sign outside the prison when Joran was released.  I always get this mixed up.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: mrs. red on July 08, 2006, 10:48:57 PM
Terry said something earlier about feeling bad for the people of Aruba... I don't, they let it go on.... they are just as guilty... if you live there and you know what the hell happened you shoud be screaming your head off......


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: terryd270 on July 08, 2006, 10:49:03 PM
Having the top cops on your side made Joran know that he had nothing to worry about.. That island and those people need a wakeup call...


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Buckeye on July 08, 2006, 10:49:12 PM
Art had made the point that even if they brought in a new investigator, they still wouldn't be permitted to requestion the perps.  What's with that??


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Tylergal on July 08, 2006, 10:49:16 PM
Quote from: "San"
Klaas was Sander the one who was holding the sign outside the prison when Joran was released.  I always get this mixed up.


Sander/Xander/Alexander, all the same.  He posted as Xander.  His name is Alexander.  I think he spells it Sander on his tickle space.

So Deepak's best friend on his space is Koen, the 18-year-old, 220-pound guy who sleeps with his mommy. :lol:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Buckeye on July 08, 2006, 10:50:06 PM
Quote from: "San"
Klaas was Sander the one who was holding the sign outside the prison when Joran was released.  I always get this mixed up.


Not Klaas...but yes he was.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Tylergal on July 08, 2006, 10:50:11 PM
Quote from: "terryd270"
Having the top cops on your side made Joran know that he had nothing to worry about.. That island and those people need a wakeup call...


Hunger might make them wake up with their stomachs growling.  Like Marie Antoinette said, "Let 'em eat cake."


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: klaasend on July 08, 2006, 10:50:42 PM
Quote from: "San"
Klaas was Sander the one who was holding the sign outside the prison when Joran was released.  I always get this mixed up.


Yes


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: AZLady on July 08, 2006, 10:50:55 PM
Key people we need to focus on in this case:
Dennis Jacobs, Van der Stratten, Karen Janssen

Koen Gottenboes, Sander Gottenboes


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: San on July 08, 2006, 10:50:55 PM
Quote from: "mrs. red"
Terry said something earlier about feeling bad for the people of Aruba... I don't, they let it go on.... they are just as guilty... if you live there and you know what the hell happened you shoud be screaming your head off......

I agree mrs. red.  I have no sympathy it's all gone.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Tylergal on July 08, 2006, 10:51:38 PM
Quote from: "San"
Quote from: "mrs. red"
Terry said something earlier about feeling bad for the people of Aruba... I don't, they let it go on.... they are just as guilty... if you live there and you know what the hell happened you shoud be screaming your head off......

I agree mrs. red.  I have no sympathy it's all gone.


Let 'em eat cake.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Anna on July 08, 2006, 10:51:44 PM
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "San"
Klaas was Sander the one who was holding the sign outside the prison when Joran was released.  I always get this mixed up.


Yes



What did it say??  Send more videos???   :evil:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: terryd270 on July 08, 2006, 10:51:45 PM
Mrsred,  If I said I felt sorry for the Arubans I made a typing error, I want to see them go down the drain.. I have no compassion for that island..  Its a black hole to me that sucks all good things into it..


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Buckeye on July 08, 2006, 10:52:03 PM
Quote from: "Tylergal"
Quote from: "San"
Klaas was Sander the one who was holding the sign outside the prison when Joran was released.  I always get this mixed up.


Sander/Xander/Alexander, all the same.  He posted as Xander.  His name is Alexander.  I think he spells it Sander on his tickle space.

So Deepak's best friend on his space is Koen, the 18-year-old, 220-pound guy who sleeps with his mommy. :lol:


And by the looks of Koen's new pictures on Deepak's site, I'm guessing he's at least 225lb.  now.  Boy, does he look different.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: AZLady on July 08, 2006, 10:52:29 PM
The coverup was to protect the Gottenboes kids as well as Joran and the 2K's.  They were all involved.  The police and prosecution who were there at the beginning are the source of the cover up.  It is simple and right there in front of us.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: San on July 08, 2006, 10:53:01 PM
Quote from: "Buckeye"
Quote from: "San"
Klaas was Sander the one who was holding the sign outside the prison when Joran was released.  I always get this mixed up.


Not Klaas...but yes he was.

Thanks Buckeye.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: mrs. red on July 08, 2006, 10:53:16 PM
Quote from: "terryd270"
Having the top cops on your side made Joran know that he had nothing to worry about.. That island and those people need a wakeup call...



the fact that they haven't woke up yet tells me that they won't ... either that or they really have been brainwashed...


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: AZLady on July 08, 2006, 10:54:14 PM
We need for Aruba to close this case.  That is the only way the FBI can become involved.  Art has said this at the beginning of both interviews--last week and this week.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: AZLady on July 08, 2006, 10:55:53 PM
Aruba pretending to investigate and bring in new witnesses and act like they are doing something is part of the coverup.  They are dragging this out because they DO NOT want the FBI to come in and investigate it.  We need to put pressure on them to close it down.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Anna on July 08, 2006, 10:56:22 PM
.
And here we go again~~wasn't Koen rumored to have his own apartment and once we even tried to find the location?  Did we??  I can't remember.  Was it ever searched?  Could it be a possible crime scene?  Was it Koen at Joran's apartment instead of Freddie?  Were both of them there?  And Sander?  

.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Easywriter on July 08, 2006, 10:56:51 PM
Quote from: "klaasend"
Guess which caller was me??  :wink:


The one with the Yankee accent?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: AZLady on July 08, 2006, 10:57:07 PM
They can keep it open for two years with no more new evidence.  That is another whole year!!!  We can't let this happen.  It needs to be investigated as soon as possible by the FBI.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: igsigs on July 08, 2006, 10:57:15 PM
Could they have used Guido's quadracer to transport a body to Koen's boat? Too farfetched?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Tylergal on July 08, 2006, 10:57:29 PM
At least five people involved in the disappearance and disposal of her body....
Joran, Paulus, Sander, Koen, Deepak.

Law enforcement involved in cover up, Jan vanderStraaten, Paulus vanderSloot, Dennis Jacobs, Karin Janssen, Dompig.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: terryd270 on July 08, 2006, 10:57:51 PM
I don't think they ever liked us in the first place, we were just toys to these kids.  Well if Dana keeps having these programs, then we might get the answers we all seek and help John Q. Kelly.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: AZLady on July 08, 2006, 10:58:26 PM
Quote from: "Tylergal"
At least five people involved in the disappearance and disposal of her body....
Joran, Paulus, Sander, Koen, Deepak.

Law enforcement involved in cover up, Jan vanderStraaten, Paulus vanderSloot, Dennis Jacobs, Karin Janssen, Dompig.


Who was chief of police before Dompig?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Anna on July 08, 2006, 10:58:34 PM
Quote from: "Easywriter"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Guess which caller was me??  :wink:


The one with the Yankee accent?



BRAHAHAHAHA!  Goooood one, Easy!!

 :lol:  :D  :lol:  :D  8)


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Buckeye on July 08, 2006, 10:58:56 PM
Quote from: "Anna"
.
And here we go again~~wasn't Koen rumored to have his own apartment and once we even tried to find the location?  Did we??  I can't remember.  Was it ever searched?  Could it be a possible crime scene?  Was it Koen at Joran's apartment instead of Freddie?  Were both of them there?  And Sander?  

.


I remember the discussion about his apartment...but don't remember if we ever located it.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: terryd270 on July 08, 2006, 10:59:09 PM
Everyone a good night and I think we all learned a lot or at least confirm a lot of our beliefs on the case.. Take care..


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: BTgirl on July 08, 2006, 10:59:30 PM
Quote from: "terryd270"
I don't think they ever liked us in the first place, we were just toys to these kids.  Well if Dana keeps having these programs, then we might get the answers we all seek and help John Q. Kelly.


If more people listened to Dana's program, we'd have more people who were furious about the case and demanding answers from Aruba.

Does anyone have any ideas on how to expand Dana's audience?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Tylergal on July 08, 2006, 10:59:35 PM
Quote from: "Anna"
.
And here we go again~~wasn't Koen rumored to have his own apartment and once we even tried to find the location?  Did we??  I can't remember.  Was it ever searched?  Could it be a possible crime scene?  Was it Koen at Joran's apartment instead of Freddie?  Were both of them there?  And Sander?  

.


Anna, I was told by a poster on RWV that Koen had his own apartment.  Pictures of Koen's house(s) look different.  I am sure Klaas has those.  The windows in house #1 is different from house #2.  I was told by poster that Koen's apartment was near the Sloot house.  You can probably guess which poster told me that.  I will not use poster's name here but I think you can guess which one it was that I was e-mailing with before said poster went to the dark side, sotaspeak.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: BTgirl on July 08, 2006, 11:00:00 PM
Quote from: "terryd270"
Everyone a good night and I think we all learned a lot or at least confirm a lot of our beliefs on the case.. Take care..


Smoochies Terry.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Tylergal on July 08, 2006, 11:00:40 PM
Quote from: "BTgirl"
Quote from: "terryd270"
I don't think they ever liked us in the first place, we were just toys to these kids.  Well if Dana keeps having these programs, then we might get the answers we all seek and help John Q. Kelly.


If more people listened to Dana's program, we'd have more people who were furious about the case and demanding answers from Aruba.

Does anyone have any ideas on how to expand Dana's audience?


Marketing is everything.  Do we have any marketing grads here?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Easywriter on July 08, 2006, 11:01:29 PM
Dana didn’t bother to ask the important questions, which just happened to be my damn questions! lol


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Tylergal on July 08, 2006, 11:01:33 PM
Quote from: "terryd270"
Everyone a good night and I think we all learned a lot or at least confirm a lot of our beliefs on the case.. Take care..


Good night, Terry.  Gotta go for a few minutes.  Little boys have decided this camping out in the backyard does not sound like such a hot idea and want to move back inside.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: AZLady on July 08, 2006, 11:01:43 PM
We need to spend more time talking about Koen and Sander.  They are so involved in this.  They also are the weak links who may talk.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: AZLady on July 08, 2006, 11:02:40 PM
Quote from: "Easywriter"
Dana didn’t bother to ask the important questions, which just happened to be my damn questions! lol


Easy, what were your questions?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Buckeye on July 08, 2006, 11:03:02 PM
Quote from: "AZLady"
Quote from: "Tylergal"
At least five people involved in the disappearance and disposal of her body....
Joran, Paulus, Sander, Koen, Deepak.

Law enforcement involved in cover up, Jan vanderStraaten, Paulus vanderSloot, Dennis Jacobs, Karin Janssen, Dompig.


Who was chief of police before Dompig?


Wasn't it Dolph Richardson...he had too big an area so they split the disticts or something...then he took back over when they "reassigned" Dompig???  I could be wrong.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Sleuth on July 08, 2006, 11:03:20 PM
Dana is taking more calls - will stay as long as we like within reason..


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Anna on July 08, 2006, 11:03:27 PM
Quote from: "AZLady"
We need for Aruba to close this case.  That is the only way the FBI can become involved.  Art has said this at the beginning of both interviews--last week and this week.



But first Aruba has to INVITE them and something tells me that will NEVER happen.  They will not only not invite them, they will block them and destrpy any evidence they haven't already made disappear.

 :(


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: AZLady on July 08, 2006, 11:04:29 PM
You know, all along we have thought the weak link was Satish.  I think Satish is being thrown under the wheels and that was the purpose of Joran's interview with Greta.  It was also to deflect attention from where it should be:  on Joran, Koen and Sander.  The Gottenboes are the weak link and they will talk, if someone can get to them.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: beachwego on July 08, 2006, 11:04:57 PM
Quote from: "Tylergal"
Quote from: "San"
Quote from: "mrs. red"
Terry said something earlier about feeling bad for the people of Aruba... I don't, they let it go on.... they are just as guilty... if you live there and you know what the hell happened you shoud be screaming your head off......

I agree mrs. red.  I have no sympathy it's all gone.


Let 'em eat cake.



Let 'em eat cake....should be our new motto!

Hi Tyler!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Tylergal on July 08, 2006, 11:05:06 PM
Yes, so let's take Deepak out of this equation and make it as follows:

Joran
Paulus
Koen
Sander
Freddy


Law enforcement involved in coverup as follows:
Jan vanderStratten
Karin Janssen
Dennis Jacobs
Dolphi Richardson
Paulus vanderSloot.


How's my list?  OK,  :roll:  now they want something to eat.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: San on July 08, 2006, 11:05:06 PM
Quote from: "Tylergal"
At least five people involved in the disappearance and disposal of her body....
Joran, Paulus, Sander, Koen, Deepak.

Law enforcement involved in cover up, Jan vanderStraaten, Paulus vanderSloot, Dennis Jacobs, Karin Janssen, Dompig.

I agree Tyler.  One more person I would include is Koen's father.  So now we have two grown up men involved in the disposal.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: terryd270 on July 08, 2006, 11:05:11 PM
I remember camping out with all my friends outside and we spooked each other and everyone lived closed by except me and I had to get on my bike with my blanket and ride home all two blocks thinking that someone was going to get me.. I never camped out with those non_friends..  

Just asked Dana how to get him ratings and what he feels that we can do to help.. Its all about ratings and I noticed that there were no commercials so I guess this is all stranged to me.. I know I could of done without listening to the preshow before his..


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: igsigs on July 08, 2006, 11:05:50 PM
Quote from: "AZLady"
We need to spend more time talking about Koen and Sander.  They are so involved in this.  They also are the weak links who may talk.

I wonder how much of a weak link the Gottenbos' really are. At one point there was talk of them being blood relations to the Sloots.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: AZLady on July 08, 2006, 11:06:21 PM
Quote from: "Anna"
Quote from: "AZLady"
We need for Aruba to close this case.  That is the only way the FBI can become involved.  Art has said this at the beginning of both interviews--last week and this week.



But first Aruba has to INVITE them and something tells me that will NEVER happen.  They will not only not invite them, they will block them and destrpy any evidence they haven't already made disappear.

 :(


No, no Anna.  If Aruba closes the case, the Holloway-Twitty family need to petition the FBI in Alabama to investigate.  Then, the FBI can take up the case themselves and investigate it.  There is a treaty with the Netherlands that demands cooperation in such investigations.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Easywriter on July 08, 2006, 11:06:34 PM
Call him!  Let's keep this guy going!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: beachwego on July 08, 2006, 11:06:43 PM
Quote from: "Anna"
Quote from: "AZLady"
We need for Aruba to close this case.  That is the only way the FBI can become involved.  Art has said this at the beginning of both interviews--last week and this week.



But first Aruba has to INVITE them and something tells me that will NEVER happen.  They will not only not invite them, they will block them and destrpy any evidence they haven't already made disappear.

 :(



I agree with you, Anna.  I think it is hopeless.  :cry:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Sleuth on July 08, 2006, 11:06:45 PM
Easy - what question would have you liked to have answered?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Easywriter on July 08, 2006, 11:08:00 PM
Hey RED!  Call the guy and keep it going!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Sleuth on July 08, 2006, 11:08:21 PM
TerryD - I hope you're bringing coffee tomorrow.  I'll probably sleep in late so aroun 10:00 am is fine... :wink:

Also, glad to see your daughter is coming to see you & you can celebrate her 21st..


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Kat_Gram on July 08, 2006, 11:08:41 PM
Quote from: "Tylergal"
At least five people involved in the disappearance and disposal of her body....
Joran, Paulus, Sander, Koen, Deepak.

Law enforcement involved in cover up, Jan vanderStraaten, Paulus vanderSloot, Dennis Jacobs, Karin Janssen, Dompig.

You forgot about Freddy. Don't know about Sander, he is a freind of Satish's. Might just have been doing alot of lying.
What about Guido ? He is still a suspect.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: beachwego on July 08, 2006, 11:09:18 PM
Quote from: "mrs. red"
Quote from: "terryd270"
Having the top cops on your side made Joran know that he had nothing to worry about.. That island and those people need a wakeup call...



the fact that they haven't woke up yet tells me that they won't ... either that or they really have been brainwashed...


yep

let 'em eat cake

Hi Mrs. Red!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Easywriter on July 08, 2006, 11:09:33 PM
Call him RED!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: AZLady on July 08, 2006, 11:09:46 PM
Anna and Beach, go back and listen to the very beginning of each of the Art Woods interviews and Art says how the FBI could investigate.  He says this is the only way the Holloway Twitty's will find out what happened and find justice.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: AZLady on July 08, 2006, 11:12:03 PM
Where are the Gottenboes boys now?  What are they doing?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Lala'sMom on July 08, 2006, 11:12:49 PM
Quote from: "AZLady"
We need to spend more time talking about Koen and Sander.  They are so involved in this.  They also are the weak links who may talk.


Never gonna happen now.  They are far, far away from the scene by now and carrying on with their lives.  Makes me sick to think about it.  There is a special place in you know where for these kinds of people.  I hope and pray there is at least.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: AZLady on July 08, 2006, 11:12:56 PM
Art now talking about how the FBI can get involved.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Tylergal on July 08, 2006, 11:14:09 PM
Quote from: "AZLady"
Where are the Gottenboes boys now?  What are they doing?


In Holland, in bed with their mother.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: AZLady on July 08, 2006, 11:14:13 PM
Once the case is closed by Aruba, then the FBI can go in and start an investigation into the violation of an American citizens' rights, according to a treaty.  Aruba doesn't need to give permission because a treaty exists already.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: AZLady on July 08, 2006, 11:16:25 PM
However, between the civil case investigation and an investigation by the FBI of the violation of an American citizen's rights, answers will be forthcoming.  We need to pressure Aruba to ask for help.  Aruba needs to close this case and then the FBI can come in and investigate it.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: San on July 08, 2006, 11:17:06 PM
Quote from: "Tylergal"
Quote from: "AZLady"
Where are the Gottenboes boys now?  What are they doing?


In Holland, in bed with their mother.

 :lol:  :lol: I was waiting for this answer.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Anna on July 08, 2006, 11:17:08 PM
Quote from: "AZLady"
Anna and Beach, go back and listen to the very beginning of each of the Art Woods interviews and Art says how the FBI could investigate.  He says this is the only way the Holloway Twitty's will find out what happened and find justice.


But if it is by force of treaty, AZLady, I am afraid they would just be
directed to the empty evidence drawer.   :( That is, of course, if Aruba were to by chance honor the treaty?

We are still waiting for the Netherlands to honor their treaty and hand over to us one of the 9/11 suspects they are still holding and REFUSE to extradite to the U.S.   :evil: They keep their word in treaties about like they investigate.  JMO.

.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: AZLady on July 08, 2006, 11:18:16 PM
The MSM needs to take up this battle cry.  Create pressure on Aruba to close this case and say they just could not find answers.  Then, the civil case will go forward and the FBI can investigate the violation of Natalee's rights.  There will be answers to this.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: AZLady on July 08, 2006, 11:20:23 PM
Now we are getting down to the politics of the case.  Does the US have enough influence on the Dutch to push them to cooperate?  The principal characters in the case have fled to Holland so they would need to cooperate.  I think Aruba is looking at Venezuela to the south and the Dutch to the east, and wondering what to do.  I think the US needs to help them make up their mind.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: klaasend on July 08, 2006, 11:21:21 PM
Recent photo of Koen:

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e82/klaasend2/koen2006.jpg)

and Sander:

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e82/klaasend2/sander2006.jpg)


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Easywriter on July 08, 2006, 11:21:35 PM
I want Red to call.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Lala'sMom on July 08, 2006, 11:22:36 PM
Quote from: "AZLady"
Once the case is closed by Aruba, then the FBI can go in and start an investigation into the violation of an American citizens' rights, according to a treaty.  Aruba doesn't need to give permission because a treaty exists already.


Never gonna happen.  Sorry.  The cell records are gone.  The blood in the car is gone.  The videos are gone.  The computer records are gone.  The shoes are gone.  All the evidence is gone.  There would be nothing for the FBI to do.  Who's gonna talk to them?  Not Paulus.  Not Joran. Not Deepak. Not Satish.  Not Guido.  Who's gonna give them any statements?  Not Dompig.  Not vander Straaten. Not Janssen.

Let them eat cake!!!!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: AZLady on July 08, 2006, 11:23:10 PM
You know there was a reason that Beth and Dave hired JQK.  He has connections in the Netherlands and Europe.  This will also involve the EU and Interpol.  I do think the Dutch have strong reasons to see justice done in this case.  Their own legal beagles have come out with comments criticizing the strangeness of the case.  The groundwork is being laid for the civil case to succeed and the FBI to become involved.  It takes time, but I do believe it will happen.  The VDS's and the Gottenboe's can run, but they can't hide forever.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Anna on July 08, 2006, 11:23:13 PM
Quote from: "AZLady"
Anna and Beach, go back and listen to the very beginning of each of the Art Woods interviews and Art says how the FBI could investigate.  He says this is the only way the Holloway Twitty's will find out what happened and find justice.



AZLady,
I heard him.  Loud and clear.  Both times.  Personally, I just think it will never happen.  If Aruba wanted the FBI to investigate they would have allowed it from the beginning.  They don't and without their cooperation, I don't think the FBI will get anywhere especially if it requires a judge's order to even interrogate the suspects again, etc.  They will just obstruct and misdirect, etc.   The Dutch do not always honor their treaties, either.

Not positive that Aruba will accept a treaty signed by the Dutch while in the process of obtaining autonomy from them.  But even if the FBI made it to Aruba, not sure how far they could get when they hit the same stone wall they did the first time.  Sorry to be so negative and if it is all that is left, they have to give it a try.  Just don't have much faith that they could make much progress without real cooperation from Aruba.

But sure, anything is worth a try!

.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: SunnyinTX on July 08, 2006, 11:23:16 PM
Quote from: "Tylergal"
Quote from: "San"
Quote from: "mrs. red"
Terry said something earlier about feeling bad for the people of Aruba... I don't, they let it go on.... they are just as guilty... if you live there and you know what the hell happened you shoud be screaming your head off......

I agree mrs. red.  I have no sympathy it's all gone.


Let 'em eat cake.


tell um to GO  EAT A BUG!!!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: San on July 08, 2006, 11:24:38 PM
Quote from: "AZLady"
Now we are getting down to the politics of the case.  Does the US have enough influence on the Dutch to push them to cooperate?  The principal characters in the case have fled to Holland so they would need to cooperate.  I think Aruba is looking at Venezuela to the south and the Dutch to the east, and wondering what to do.  I think the US needs to help them make up their mind.

I think the US needs to call for a total boycott of Aruba if they do not cooperate.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: AZLady on July 08, 2006, 11:25:10 PM
I'm frankly shocked that the Monkeys I've discussed this case with for over a year are saying that there is no way to resolve it, when you just heard with your own ears that there is a way to get answers.  I guess I've been talking with the wrong people for a long time now about this case.  I'm going to bed before I say something I seriously regret.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: SunnyinTX on July 08, 2006, 11:27:01 PM
Quote from: "AZLady"
The coverup was to protect the Gottenboes kids as well as Joran and the 2K's. They were all involved.  The police and prosecution who were there at the beginning are the source of the cover up.  It is simple and right there in front of us.


this makes much more sense to me.....and they have the $$$'s and on aruba $$$=POWER


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: mrs. red on July 08, 2006, 11:28:45 PM
Quote from: "Tylergal"
Quote from: "AZLady"
Where are the Gottenboes boys now?  What are they doing?


In Holland, in bed with their mother.


LOL :lol:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Sleuth on July 08, 2006, 11:29:24 PM
Quote from: "Buckeye"

Wow Sleuth...Dana did mention he needed a producer........



Thank you Buckey.  I would love to be a producer for Dana.  Well, he has been hearing my voice every week   :lol:  :lol:

Recap for those who can not listen to the podcast....
http://www.scaredmonkeys.net/viewtopic.php?p=10970#10970


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Kat_Gram on July 08, 2006, 11:29:28 PM
Quote from: "San"
Quote from: "Tylergal"
Quote from: "AZLady"
Where are the Gottenboes boys now?  What are they doing?


In Holland, in bed with their mother.

 :lol:  :lol: I was waiting for this answer.

When I heard that, I thought, well, what an excuse !  !


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Port Valerie on July 08, 2006, 11:30:11 PM
Quote from: "AZLady"
I'm frankly shocked that the Monkeys I've discussed this case with for over a year are saying that there is no way to resolve it, when you just heard with your own ears that there is a way to get answers.  I guess I've been talking with the wrong people for a long time now about this case.  I'm going to bed before I say something I seriously regret.


Bye-bye.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: crazybabyborg on July 08, 2006, 11:30:25 PM
Call Monkeys! He's looking for callers!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Anna on July 08, 2006, 11:30:43 PM
Quote from: "Kat_Gram"
Quote from: "San"
Quote from: "Tylergal"
Quote from: "AZLady"
Where are the Gottenboes boys now?  What are they doing?


In Holland, in bed with their mother.

 :lol:  :lol: I was waiting for this answer.

When I heard that, I thought, well, what an excuse !  !



Guess one excuse is as good as another!   :wink:  8)


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: San on July 08, 2006, 11:31:31 PM
Is this the palm reader talking again?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Anna on July 08, 2006, 11:31:51 PM
Quote from: "crazybabyborg"
Call Monkeys! He's looking for callers!


Call, CBB!  I already have.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Lala'sMom on July 08, 2006, 11:31:55 PM
Quote from: "AZLady"
I'm frankly shocked that the Monkeys I've discussed this case with for over a year are saying that there is no way to resolve it, when you just heard with your own ears that there is a way to get answers.  I guess I've been talking with the wrong people for a long time now about this case.  I'm going to bed before I say something I seriously regret.


Oh AZ, I think we are all just so distraught over the possibility of no resolution that we, me especially, have reached our limit.  I too, believe there is a way to get answers.  The Aruban people have to rise up and help solve this.  There in lies the rub, they need to be so desperate that there is no alternative but to throw the guilty out in the streets.  I am sorry I was so discouraging tonight.  Please forgive.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: crazybabyborg on July 08, 2006, 11:32:13 PM
Quote from: "San"
Is this the palm reader talking again?


Voice sounds the same...........


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Buckeye on July 08, 2006, 11:32:14 PM
Quote from: "Sleuth"
Quote from: "Buckeye"

Wow Sleuth...Dana did mention he needed a producer........



Thank you Buckey.  I would love to be a producer for Dana.  Well, he has been hearing my voice every week   :lol:  :lol:

Recap for those who can not listen to the podcast....
http://www.scaredmonkeys.net/viewtopic.php?p=10970#10970


Maybe you could email him your nicely numbered question list before the next show.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Sleuth on July 08, 2006, 11:32:30 PM
San, not the palm reader.  Someone named Jim....


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: crazybabyborg on July 08, 2006, 11:33:11 PM
Quote from: "Anna"
Quote from: "crazybabyborg"
Call Monkeys! He's looking for callers!


Call, CBB!  I already have.


I did. We've done our civic duty, Anna.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Tylergal on July 08, 2006, 11:33:38 PM
Quote from: "Sleuth"
San, not the palm reader.  Someone named Jim....


I thought it was the palm reader. :oops:  again.  Well, whomever, he is expressing an interest.  Maybe it's Shango. :shock:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: San on July 08, 2006, 11:34:04 PM
Quote from: "Sleuth"
San, not the palm reader.  Someone named Jim....

Jim the palm reader :lol:  :lol:   Only kidding Sleuth.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Tylergal on July 08, 2006, 11:35:27 PM
Quote from: "San"
Quote from: "Sleuth"
San, not the palm reader.  Someone named Jim....

Jim the palm reader :lol:  :lol:   Only kidding Sleuth.
:lol:  :lol:  :lol:  My thoughts exactly.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Anna on July 08, 2006, 11:35:28 PM
Quote from: "Sleuth"
San, not the palm reader.  Someone named Jim....




So he says. . . . . . . . . . . .

.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Sleuth on July 08, 2006, 11:35:43 PM
Quote from: "San"
Quote from: "Sleuth"
San, not the palm reader.  Someone named Jim....

Jim the palm reader :lol:  :lol:   Only kidding Sleuth.



 :lol:  :lol: OK, maybe it is Jim the Palm Reader.   I accept the challenge and will go back and listen to the voice of the Palm Reader from last week   :wink:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: AZLady on July 08, 2006, 11:36:48 PM
Quote from: "Lala'sMom"
Quote from: "AZLady"
I'm frankly shocked that the Monkeys I've discussed this case with for over a year are saying that there is no way to resolve it, when you just heard with your own ears that there is a way to get answers.  I guess I've been talking with the wrong people for a long time now about this case.  I'm going to bed before I say something I seriously regret.


Oh AZ, I think we are all just so distraught over the possibility of no resolution that we, me especially, have reached our limit.  I too, believe there is a way to get answers.  The Aruban people have to rise up and help solve this.  There in lies the rub, they need to be so desperate that there is no alternative but to throw the guilty out in the streets.  I am sorry I was so discouraging tonight.  Please forgive.


Thank you, Lala's.  I see I brought Port Valerie out of hiding again, too.   :lol:   That should tell you something.  

We have to remember the support and strength we give to Beth and Dave.  This is not going to happen if we voice the belief that there are no answers to be had.  Do we want them to just quit trying?  NO.  And we cannot quit trying either.  There are solutions, but they are not fast and not easy.  Others would have us think that there are no solutions and no way to get answers.  I do not believe this.  Remember the strength and determination Beth has shown us.  We can at least learn from her and do what we can.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: San on July 08, 2006, 11:36:53 PM
Quote from: "Sleuth"
Quote from: "San"
Quote from: "Sleuth"
San, not the palm reader.  Someone named Jim....

Jim the palm reader :lol:  :lol:   Only kidding Sleuth.


 :lol:  :lol: OK, maybe it is Jim the Palm Reader.   I accept the challenge and will go back and listen to the voice of the Palm Reader from last week   :wink:

You don't have to do that Sleuth.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Sleuth on July 08, 2006, 11:37:46 PM
Quote from: "Buckeye"
Quote from: "Sleuth"
Quote from: "Buckeye"

Wow Sleuth...Dana did mention he needed a producer........



Thank you Buckey.  I would love to be a producer for Dana.  Well, he has been hearing my voice every week   :lol:  :lol:

Recap for those who can not listen to the podcast....
http://www.scaredmonkeys.net/viewtopic.php?p=10970#10970


Maybe you could email him your nicely numbered question list before the next show.


Those were call-ins from monkeys tonight.  He wrote them down and covered most of them with Art tonight.  We should come up with a list for the next show, however.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: SunFreak2 on July 08, 2006, 11:38:30 PM
Quote from: "Anna"


But if it is by force of treaty, AZLady, I am afraid they would just be
directed to the empty evidence drawer.   :( That is, of course, if Aruba were to by chance honor the treaty?

We are still waiting for the Netherlands to honor their treaty and hand over to us one of the 9/11 suspects they are still holding and REFUSE to extradite to the U.S.   :evil: They keep their word in treaties about like they investigate.  JMO.

.


I want to know how the Hague became the seat of the World Court.  Look at how long & drawn out Milosevic's trial was - the man died in prison before the case was finsihed.  The Netherlands won't extradite the 9/11 suspect b/c we have capital punishment.  I think the Netherlands has been tip toeing thru the tulips too long while toking on that hashish pipe. Consensual sex at age 12.   :shock:  :shock:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Buckeye on July 08, 2006, 11:39:52 PM
Quote from: "Sleuth"

Those were call-ins from monkeys tonight.  He wrote them down and covered most of them with Art tonight.  We should come up with a list for the next show, however.


Yes, but you could email right before he connects with the guest and he wouldn't have to write and talk...you know....think producer..


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Sleuth on July 08, 2006, 11:40:09 PM
Quote from: "San"

You don't have to do that Sleuth.


I know, San, my friend.  But now I'm curious   :wink:


I know my voice did not sound the same last week as tonight.  I wasn't ready last week to talk when he picked up immediately and I swallowed the ice cube I had been sucking on  :lol:  :lol:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: San on July 08, 2006, 11:41:41 PM
Quote from: "AZLady"

Thank you, Lala's.  I see I brought Port Valerie out of hiding again, too.   :lol:   That should tell you something.  

We have to remember the support and strength we give to Beth and Dave.  This is not going to happen if we voice the belief that there are no answers to be had.  Do we want them to just quit trying?  NO.  And we cannot quit trying either.  There are solutions, but they are not fast and not easy.  Others would have us think that there are no solutions and no way to get answers.  I do not believe this.  Remember the strength and determination Beth has shown us.  We can at least learn from her and do what we can.

AZLady just because we get a little discouraged doesn't mean we have given up.  I will always continue to support the family and hope they find the answers they want.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Anna on July 08, 2006, 11:42:43 PM
Quote from: "AZLady"
I'm frankly shocked that the Monkeys I've discussed this case with for over a year are saying that there is no way to resolve it, when you just heard with your own ears that there is a way to get answers.  I guess I've been talking with the wrong people for a long time now about this case.  I'm going to bed before I say something I seriously regret.



I'm sorry you feel this way and wish I shared your optimism.  
It's just my opinion and that means I can be totally wrong and you are correct.  Every possibility needs to be explored and I am sure this is one that will be once the case is officially closed.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: San on July 08, 2006, 11:43:23 PM
Quote from: "Sleuth"
Quote from: "San"

You don't have to do that Sleuth.


I know, San, my friend.  But now I'm curious   :wink:

I know my voice did not sound the same last week as tonight.  I wasn't ready last week to talk when he picked up immediately and I swallowed the ice cube I had been sucking on  :lol:  :lol:

 :lol:  :lol:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Sleuth on July 08, 2006, 11:43:29 PM
Quote from: "Buckeye"
Quote from: "Sleuth"

Those were call-ins from monkeys tonight.  He wrote them down and covered most of them with Art tonight.  We should come up with a list for the next show, however.


Yes, but you could email right before he connects with the guest and he wouldn't have to write and talk...you know....think producer..


You are right.  :lol:  :lol:  Would you like to co-produce? You could keep me in line.   I'm left-handed - I could use a right-hand man :wink:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Lala'sMom on July 08, 2006, 11:45:29 PM
Think I will go watch television for a bit.  Maybe I can relax and not be so negative when I return.  You monkeys have a good night and I will see you tomorrow.  Hugging Nemo at Camp Nightengale.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Buckeye on July 08, 2006, 11:46:15 PM
Quote from: "Sleuth"
Quote from: "Buckeye"
Quote from: "Sleuth"

Those were call-ins from monkeys tonight.  He wrote them down and covered most of them with Art tonight.  We should come up with a list for the next show, however.


Yes, but you could email right before he connects with the guest and he wouldn't have to write and talk...you know....think producer..


You are right.  :lol:  :lol:  Would you like to co-produce? You could keep me in line.   I'm left-handed - I could use a right-hand man :wink:


Nope!! Your posts are fast, clear and accurate...you do not need help.  Being left handed is good, saves the right one for using the mouse.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Anna on July 08, 2006, 11:47:18 PM
Quote from: "SunFreak2"
[
I want to know how the Hague became the seat of the World Court.  Look at how long & drawn out Milosevic's trial was - the man died in prison before the case was finsihed.  The Netherlands won't extradite the 9/11 suspect b/c we have capital punishment.  I think the Netherlands has been tip toeing thru the tulips too long while toking on that hashish pipe. Consensual sex at age 12.   :shock:  :shock:



It is just a location, Sunfreak.  The World Court is under international law and not Dutch law at all.  Just as we have the UN in NYC, it is still an independent body.

.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Kat_Gram on July 08, 2006, 11:47:36 PM
Quote from: "AZLady"
Quote from: "Lala'sMom"
Quote from: "AZLady"
I'm frankly shocked that the Monkeys I've discussed this case with for over a year are saying that there is no way to resolve it, when you just heard with your own ears that there is a way to get answers.  I guess I've been talking with the wrong people for a long time now about this case.  I'm going to bed before I say something I seriously regret.


Oh AZ, I think we are all just so distraught over the possibility of no resolution that we, me especially, have reached our limit.  I too, believe there is a way to get answers.  The Aruban people have to rise up and help solve this.  There in lies the rub, they need to be so desperate that there is no alternative but to throw the guilty out in the streets.  I am sorry I was so discouraging tonight.  Please forgive.


Thank you, Lala's.  I see I brought Port Valerie out of hiding again, too.   :lol:   That should tell you something.  

We have to remember the support and strength we give to Beth and Dave.  This is not going to happen if we voice the belief that there are no answers to be had.  Do we want them to just quit trying?  NO.  And we cannot quit trying either.  There are solutions, but they are not fast and not easy.  Others would have us think that there are no solutions and no way to get answers.  I do not believe this.  Remember the strength and determination Beth has shown us.  We can at least learn from her and do what we can.

I think that JQK has lots of evidence /  reports etc that they cannot disclose at the present time. If the civil case goes thru in NY, they do need to keep Joe T on his toes. Why would anyone from the Holloway / Twitty JQK want to discuss the specifics of the strategy of the civil case on TV any more ?
Look how that picture of Natalee surfaced just last week.
JQK has known about Guido for quite some time.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: beachwego on July 08, 2006, 11:48:03 PM
Quote from: "Lala'sMom"
Quote from: "AZLady"
Once the case is closed by Aruba, then the FBI can go in and start an investigation into the violation of an American citizens' rights, according to a treaty.  Aruba doesn't need to give permission because a treaty exists already.


Never gonna happen.  Sorry.  The cell records are gone.  The blood in the car is gone.  The videos are gone.  The computer records are gone.  The shoes are gone.  All the evidence is gone.  There would be nothing for the FBI to do.  Who's gonna talk to them?  Not Paulus.  Not Joran. Not Deepak. Not Satish.  Not Guido.  Who's gonna give them any statements?  Not Dompig.  Not vander Straaten. Not Janssen.

Let them eat cake!!!!


The FBI knows this too.  I doubt very seriously if there will be any further investigation after Aruba closes the case.  Honestly, I have always believed the FBI would be able to do something... was quite optimistic about it...until recently.   :(

Now I just want to say.. Let them eat cake!!!

Let's get a grassroots movement going!   It is the last straw.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Port Valerie on July 08, 2006, 11:48:05 PM
:shock: AZLady, I think someone else takes over your computer late at night. You are very reasonable and then wham you attack for no reason.
Very mysterious. But then this is the internet.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Tylergal on July 08, 2006, 11:49:40 PM
Quote from: "Port Valerie"
Quote from: "AZLady"
I'm frankly shocked that the Monkeys I've discussed this case with for over a year are saying that there is no way to resolve it, when you just heard with your own ears that there is a way to get answers.  I guess I've been talking with the wrong people for a long time now about this case.  I'm going to bed before I say something I seriously regret.


Bye-bye.


I appreciate what you did, AZLady, and I think you are right that JQK has more information than we know about.  He did not take this case to sit on his thumbs and look pretty.

If we lose hope, then all is lost for Beth & Dave.  They have depended on this site, these monkeys for support.  Beth said she would search until the day she died for answers.  I think we must be supportive and look for those answers.

Is Koen the blue-eyed Dutch boy whose name was mentioned in circles in Aruba as early on as 6/7?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: San on July 08, 2006, 11:51:27 PM
Quote from: "Kat_Gram"

I think that JQK has lots of evidence /  reports etc that they cannot disclose at the present time. If the civil case goes thru in NY, they do need to keep Joe T on his toes. Why would anyone from the Holloway / Twitty JQK want to discuss the specifics of the strategy of the civil case on TV any more ?
Look how that picture of Natalee surfaced just last week.
JQK has known about Guido for quite some time.

I agree.  I wouldn't reveal any information.  If they do it is for a reason.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Anna on July 08, 2006, 11:51:29 PM
Quote from: "San"
Quote from: "AZLady"

Thank you, Lala's.  I see I brought Port Valerie out of hiding again, too.   :lol:   That should tell you something.  

We have to remember the support and strength we give to Beth and Dave.  This is not going to happen if we voice the belief that there are no answers to be had.  Do we want them to just quit trying?  NO.  And we cannot quit trying either.  There are solutions, but they are not fast and not easy.  Others would have us think that there are no solutions and no way to get answers.  I do not believe this.  Remember the strength and determination Beth has shown us.  We can at least learn from her and do what we can.

AZLady just because we get a little discouraged doesn't mean we have given up.  I will always continue to support the family and hope they find the answers they want.



And I didn't see anybody saying there were no answers to be had.  I have only voiced my opinion that Aruba will not cooperate with the FBI because of a treaty.  I continue to hope that someone will come forward with information who is on the inside and in a position to demonstrate proof of what happened as well as the cover up.  Thinking it may come by a different venue is a far, far cry from saying there are no answers or trying to discourage the family in any way whatsoever.

.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Sleuth on July 08, 2006, 11:52:10 PM
AZLady - I still believe this can be solved.  It will take interrogators (FBI) that will properly question and document the interrogation and not destroy the results of the interrogation.  

It only takes one to talk.  It just takes the right person to get that person to talk.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: San on July 08, 2006, 11:54:36 PM
Quote from: "Sleuth"
AZLady - I still believe this can be solved.  It will take interrogators (FBI) that will properly question and document the interrogation and not destroy the results of the interrogation.  

It only takes one to talk.  It just takes the right person to get that person to talk.

I also hope there is some way that the peope involved in the coverup are  dealt with accordingly.  Especially that fat ba#@ard Dennis Jacobs.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: crazybabyborg on July 08, 2006, 11:55:13 PM
I think that asking the FBI to solve this case when all the evidence is gone is optimistic at best.......IF that's the only way to skin that cat. It's not. For the FBI to do a proper investigation, it would HAVE to include following the trail of the missing evidence, which takes them directly to ALE and the prosecutor. The resulting investigation of ALE would, in my opinion, yield a harvest of information. The FBI could nail some folks in a cover up, and the press would, once again, hit tourism. Criminal charges could easily come from a bright light on the corruption, and THAT alone could cause people to talk. There is hope, just by exposing the lies.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: angelalala on July 08, 2006, 11:55:54 PM
Uh. Hello. I know it's late. I wanted to stop by ... say hello. Tell my KatzH thank you. I seem to have lost my pen... or my voice... or something. Just out getting a little air. I did enjoy the radio show tonight.   :?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Sleuth on July 08, 2006, 11:57:10 PM
Quote from: "San"
Quote from: "Sleuth"
AZLady - I still believe this can be solved.  It will take interrogators (FBI) that will properly question and document the interrogation and not destroy the results of the interrogation.  

It only takes one to talk.  It just takes the right person to get that person to talk.

I also hope there is some way that the peope involved in the coverup are  dealt with accordingly.  Especially that fat ba#@ard Dennis Jacobs.


I can't remember who said this right now and I can't take credit for it,  but I hear he only weighs 120 pounds...the rest is all the evidence he is hiding.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Easywriter on July 08, 2006, 11:57:47 PM
Yesterday, I almost forgot the memories that held me close to the thoughts of long ago.  I guess I’m a little lost.  Although, smoke seemed to fill the room and the noise bothered me. You walked away from the window, but you looked away.

The smell of salt and the feel of the night pointed toward the Margarita I drank earlier.  I was lost.  It meant nothing!  It meant everything!

Why?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: crazybabyborg on July 08, 2006, 11:58:09 PM
Think about it. Joran may have confessed, but the FBI can't interview him. Joran had to confess TO someone, didn't he? That person, facing exposure and possible criminal charges, can be interviewed. Information is still available.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: BTgirl on July 08, 2006, 11:59:01 PM
Quote from: "angelalala"
Uh. Hello. I know it's late. I wanted to stop by ... say hello. Tell my KatzH thank you. I seem to have lost my pen... or my voice... or something. Just out getting a little air. I did enjoy the radio show tonight.   :?


Hi Angelala.

I'm old and forgetful, so excuse me for asking, but are you new to SM or a returning poster?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Tylergal on July 08, 2006, 11:59:02 PM
Quote from: "angelalala"
Uh. Hello. I know it's late. I wanted to stop by ... say hello. Tell my KatzH thank you. I seem to have lost my pen... or my voice... or something. Just out getting a little air. I did enjoy the radio show tonight.   :?


Welcome, Angelalala.  Good to have you here.  It is a pleasure to have you.  We love KatzHome.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: SunFreak2 on July 08, 2006, 11:59:36 PM
Quote from: "Sleuth"


Those were call-ins from monkeys tonight.  He wrote them down and covered most of them with Art tonight.  We should come up with a list for the next show, however.


I think it would be great if we started a general question thread in which we just list questions we have about the case.   The list could serve many purposes. 1) they stay on the list until we are happy with the way they have been answered . 2) The list can serve to stimulate others to think of questions and perhaps connect some dots. 3) it is a reference point for future interviews and then specific questions from the list can be chosen for a particular guest  4) On slow days in the cage we can pick a question and discuss it among us  5) this way the list will be there where we can write down the question as it pops into our head and won't be lost b/c of CRS disease.

Whatch'all think?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Tylergal on July 09, 2006, 12:00:18 AM
Quote from: "crazybabyborg"
Think about it. Joran may have confessed, but the FBI can't interview him. Joran had to confess TO someone, didn't he? That person, facing exposure and possible criminal charges, can be interviewed. Information is still available.


Agree here, CBB.  I think the first thing the FBI could do is go over what they know, what Beth has, put a few little flies on the walls in the Internet Cafe, etc,. and then exposure the cover-up and those responsible for it.  Make these big men cry and whine a while, make them talk.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: BTgirl on July 09, 2006, 12:00:35 AM
Quote from: "Easywriter"
Yesterday, I almost forgot the memories that held me close to the thoughts of long ago.  I guess I’m a little lost.  Although, smoke seemed to fill the room and the noise bothered me. You walked away from the window, but you looked away.

The smell of salt and the feel of the night pointed toward the Margarita I drank earlier.  I was lost.  It meant nothing!  It meant everything!

Why?


Is this a new story, or a continuation of a previous one?

Whichever, I like it!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: crazybabyborg on July 09, 2006, 12:00:52 AM
Quote from: "SunFreak2"
Quote from: "Sleuth"


Those were call-ins from monkeys tonight.  He wrote them down and covered most of them with Art tonight.  We should come up with a list for the next show, however.


I think it would be great if we started a general question thread in which we just list questions we have about the case.   The list could serve many purposes. 1) they stay on the list until we are happy with the way they have been answered . 2) The list can serve to stimulate others to think of questions and perhaps connect some dots. 3) it is a reference point for future interviews and then specific questions from the list can be chosen for a particular guest  4) On slow days in the cage we can pick a question and discuss it among us  5) this way the list will be there where we can write down the question as it pops into our head and won't be lost b/c of CRS disease.

Whatch'all think?


Gets an eager nod from me! Good idea. My question would be about that phone call from Nat to Beth!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: San on July 09, 2006, 12:01:16 AM
Quote from: "Sleuth"
Quote from: "San"
Quote from: "Sleuth"
AZLady - I still believe this can be solved.  It will take interrogators (FBI) that will properly question and document the interrogation and not destroy the results of the interrogation.  

It only takes one to talk.  It just takes the right person to get that person to talk.

I also hope there is some way that the peope involved in the coverup are  dealt with accordingly.  Especially that fat ba#@ard Dennis Jacobs.


I can't remember who said this right now and I can't take credit for it,  but I hear he only weighs 120 pounds...the rest is all the evidence he is hiding.

 :lol: Terry said it.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Anna on July 09, 2006, 12:01:47 AM
.
I don't think it is a good idea to ever put all your eggs or hopes into one basket and depend on that only for answers.  Especially if it has not worked well in the past.

Better to continue to pursue any and all leads and possibilities than count on something then later have it not pan out.  Or encourage the family to do so or give false hope if you sincerely do not have it on a certain situation, in this case, treaty.  I am sure Beth will continue to look in all directions and at all possibilities until she has a resolution as to what happened to her daugher and not rule out anything counting on just the FBI being able to investigate.  She has a fine attorney to advise her in this regard as well.  I trust that he will continue to do so.

Just my thoughts and opinions.  We are all entitled to ours as far as I know.

.

.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: San on July 09, 2006, 12:02:32 AM
Quote from: "angelalala"
Uh. Hello. I know it's late. I wanted to stop by ... say hello. Tell my KatzH thank you. I seem to have lost my pen... or my voice... or something. Just out getting a little air. I did enjoy the radio show tonight.   :?

Hi angelalala :D


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Sleuth on July 09, 2006, 12:02:35 AM
Quote from: "angelalala"
Uh. Hello. I know it's late. I wanted to stop by ... say hello. Tell my KatzH thank you. I seem to have lost my pen... or my voice... or something. Just out getting a little air. I did enjoy the radio show tonight.   :?


Hey Angelalala - welcome!

I loved your comment on BFN before ArubaTruth went down - I think you had visited the site and saw that there had not been a post since early May.  You made a comment something to the effect of "At least if they don't update the site they don't need to retract it".... :lol:  :lol: (sorry for the paraphrasing)


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: klaasend on July 09, 2006, 12:03:54 AM
angelalala - Welcome!!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Sleuth on July 09, 2006, 12:07:13 AM
Quote from: "San"
Quote from: "Sleuth"



I can't remember who said this right now and I can't take credit for it,  but I hear he only weighs 120 pounds...the rest is all the evidence he is hiding.

 :lol: Terry said it.


How could I have forgotten  :lol:   And someone nominated him to do the strip-search to retrieve the evidence   :lol:  :lol:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: crazybabyborg on July 09, 2006, 12:07:19 AM
Quote from: "Tylergal"
Quote from: "crazybabyborg"
Think about it. Joran may have confessed, but the FBI can't interview him. Joran had to confess TO someone, didn't he? That person, facing exposure and possible criminal charges, can be interviewed. Information is still available.


Agree here, CBB.  I think the first thing the FBI could do is go over what they know, what Beth has, put a few little flies on the walls in the Internet Cafe, etc,. and then exposure the cover-up and those responsible for it.  Make these big men cry and whine a while, make them talk.


Exactly, Tyler! I would assume that Holland would take action against a public servent that has come under world scrutiny for destroying evidence, or for not allowing themselves to be interviewed by the FBI. The court of world tourism will be watching, and that too is pressure. Can't you just see it?
Uh, the belt on the beach, the one that matches the phote of Joran choking a friend..............where is it?  
And your name is? I want to be sure the newspapers get the spelling right.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: San on July 09, 2006, 12:08:29 AM
Quote from: "Sleuth"
Quote from: "San"
Quote from: "Sleuth"



I can't remember who said this right now and I can't take credit for it,  but I hear he only weighs 120 pounds...the rest is all the evidence he is hiding.

 :lol: Terry said it.


How could I have forgotten  :lol:   And someone nominated him to do the strip-search to retrieve the evidence  :lol:  :lol:

And that would be me :lol:  :lol:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: crazybabyborg on July 09, 2006, 12:09:46 AM
Would the FBI be hindered from speaking with Koen? Couldn't Holland assist with that effort? If Aruba closed the case, and the FBI came up with something substantial, could it be re-opened?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: angelalala on July 09, 2006, 12:09:56 AM
Quote from: "BTgirl"

Hi Angelala.

I'm old and forgetful, so excuse me for asking, but are you new to SM or a returning poster?

Well... I'm new to SM... but... I'd say many probably know who I am... Katz and many others have been good to me   :?  . I'm sometimes a bit of a big-mouth I used to write a lot. Not so much lately.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: BTgirl on July 09, 2006, 12:11:17 AM
Quote from: "angelalala"
Quote from: "BTgirl"

Hi Angelala.

I'm old and forgetful, so excuse me for asking, but are you new to SM or a returning poster?

Well... I'm new to SM... but... I'd say many probably know who I am... Katz and many others have been good to me   :?  . I'm sometimes a bit of a big-mouth I used to write a lot. Not so much lately.


Well then, welcome to SM. We're pretty much all big mouths here. :lol:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Sleuth on July 09, 2006, 12:11:32 AM
Quote from: "San"
Quote from: "Sleuth"
 
Quote from: "San"
Quote from: "Sleuth"



I can't remember who said this right now and I can't take credit for it,  but I hear he only weighs 120 pounds...the rest is all the evidence he is hiding.

 :lol: Terry said it.


How could I have forgotten  :lol:   And someone nominated him to do the strip-search to retrieve the evidence  :lol:  :lol:

And that would be me :lol:  :lol:

 :lol:  :lol:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: crazybabyborg on July 09, 2006, 12:13:27 AM
Quote from: "angelalala"
Quote from: "BTgirl"

Hi Angelala.

I'm old and forgetful, so excuse me for asking, but are you new to SM or a returning poster?

Well... I'm new to SM... but... I'd say many probably know who I am... Katz and many others have been good to me   :?  . I'm sometimes a bit of a big-mouth I used to write a lot. Not so much lately.


Well if you are a big mouth, you'll feel right at home here.
(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c100/crazybabyborgs/Welcome.jpg)


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: mrs. red on July 09, 2006, 12:13:38 AM
Quote from: "angelalala"
Quote from: "BTgirl"

Hi Angelala.

I'm old and forgetful, so excuse me for asking, but are you new to SM or a returning poster?

Well... I'm new to SM... but... I'd say many probably know who I am... Katz and many others have been good to me   :?  . I'm sometimes a bit of a big-mouth I used to write a lot. Not so much lately.


I know you... I have read your thoughts at BFN... I think :shock:

I am just reading along your thoughts monkeys.... and Anna, you are allowed to say what you are thinking.... and Tyler & beachy... I agree let 'em eat cake!!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Sleuth on July 09, 2006, 12:13:54 AM
I'm replaying last week's Dana show and I chose to replay at  x the normal speed - trying to relisten to it in its entirety but also waiting for Jim the Palm Reader.   Well, I can understand all that is being said, but it sounds like little chipmunks (or perhaps TerryD squirrels) in BTGirls back yard..


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Sleuth on July 09, 2006, 12:14:50 AM
Self-edit...

Quote from: "Sleuth"
I'm replaying last week's Dana show and I chose to replay at  5x the normal speed - trying to relisten to it in its entirety but also waiting for Jim the Palm Reader.   Well, I can understand all that is being said, but it sounds like little chipmunks (or perhaps TerryD squirrels) in BTGirls back yard..


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Sleuth on July 09, 2006, 12:16:26 AM
Quote from: "crazybabyborg"
Would the FBI be hindered from speaking with Koen? Couldn't Holland assist with that effort? If Aruba closed the case, and the FBI came up with something substantial, could it be re-opened?


In the interview with Jossy (first one, I think) he said if evidence is presented after the case is closed charges could still be filed.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: crazybabyborg on July 09, 2006, 12:16:42 AM
Quote from: "Sleuth"
I'm replaying last week's Dana show and I chose to replay at  x the normal speed - trying to relisten to it in its entirety but also waiting for Jim the Palm Reader.   Well, I can understand all that is being said, but it sounds like little chipmunks (or perhaps TerryD squirrels) in BTGirls back yard..


or a hamster? I'm taking Salsa lessons and this will give you an idea of how it's going.  :wink:  :lol:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7836547273687836884


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: BTgirl on July 09, 2006, 12:16:51 AM
Quote from: "Sleuth"
I'm replaying last week's Dana show and I chose to replay at  x the normal speed - trying to relisten to it in its entirety but also waiting for Jim the Palm Reader.   Well, I can understand all that is being said, but it sounds like little chipmunks (or perhaps TerryD squirrels) in BTGirls back yard..


 :lol:  :lol:  :lol:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Anna on July 09, 2006, 12:16:56 AM
Quote from: "Tylergal"
Quote from: "crazybabyborg"
Think about it. Joran may have confessed, but the FBI can't interview him. Joran had to confess TO someone, didn't he? That person, facing exposure and possible criminal charges, can be interviewed. Information is still available.


Agree here, CBB.  I think the first thing the FBI could do is go over what they know, what Beth has, put a few little flies on the walls in the Internet Cafe, etc,. and then exposure the cover-up and those responsible for it.  Make these big men cry and whine a while, make them talk.



Hasn't the Internet Cafe already been sold, changed hands yet again?

.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: crazybabyborg on July 09, 2006, 12:19:02 AM
Quote from: "Sleuth"
Quote from: "crazybabyborg"
Would the FBI be hindered from speaking with Koen? Couldn't Holland assist with that effort? If Aruba closed the case, and the FBI came up with something substantial, could it be re-opened?


In the interview with Jossy (first one, I think) he said if evidence is presented after the case is closed charges could still be filed.


Well, AWRIGHT!! Close it, Close it, Close it! If they're intent was to solve this case, they would have done it a long time ago. Let's see if we can motivate them. The FBI and Boycott sound like a good team to me!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Sleuth on July 09, 2006, 12:21:06 AM
Quote from: "crazybabyborg"
Quote from: "Sleuth"
I'm replaying last week's Dana show and I chose to replay at  x the normal speed - trying to relisten to it in its entirety but also waiting for Jim the Palm Reader.   Well, I can understand all that is being said, but it sounds like little chipmunks (or perhaps TerryD squirrels) in BTGirls back yard..


or a hamster? I'm taking Salsa lessons and this will give you an idea of how it's going.  :wink:  :lol:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7836547273687836884



 :lol:  :lol: I just played it and it was really funny as my sound had both the 5x of the interview and the hamster at the same time   :lol:   Did you notice the hamster in the silver car - is it an Aruban hamster??


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: San on July 09, 2006, 12:22:42 AM
Quote from: "BTgirl"
Quote from: "Sleuth"
I'm replaying last week's Dana show and I chose to replay at  x the normal speed - trying to relisten to it in its entirety but also waiting for Jim the Palm Reader.   Well, I can understand all that is being said, but it sounds like little chipmunks (or perhaps TerryD squirrels) in BTGirls back yard..


 :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

Sleuth, can you move the little button to 1:52 the guy comes on then.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Anna on July 09, 2006, 12:23:48 AM
Quote from: "San"
[

 :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

Sleuth, can you move the little button to 1:52 the guy comes on then.[/quote]

 :lol: And miss the chipmunks??  :lol:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: crazybabyborg on July 09, 2006, 12:24:44 AM
Quote from: "Sleuth"
Quote from: "crazybabyborg"
Quote from: "Sleuth"
I'm replaying last week's Dana show and I chose to replay at  x the normal speed - trying to relisten to it in its entirety but also waiting for Jim the Palm Reader.   Well, I can understand all that is being said, but it sounds like little chipmunks (or perhaps TerryD squirrels) in BTGirls back yard..


or a hamster? I'm taking Salsa lessons and this will give you an idea of how it's going.  :wink:  :lol:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7836547273687836884



 :lol:  :lol: I just played it and it was really funny as my sound had both the 5x of the interview and the hamster at the same time   :lol:   Did you notice the hamster in the silver car - is it an Aruban hamster??


 :lol: Hadn't caught that, Sleuth, but the FBI will get to the bottom of that!  :lol:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: mrs. red on July 09, 2006, 12:25:22 AM
Quote from: "Anna"
Quote from: "San"
[

 :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

Sleuth, can you move the little button to 1:52 the guy comes on then.


 :lol: And miss the chipmunks??  :lol:[/quote]

hey didn't kimmy get her heart broken by Alvin? :shock:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Anna on July 09, 2006, 12:28:42 AM
Quote from: "mrs. red"
Quote from: "Anna"
Quote from: "San"
[

 :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

Sleuth, can you move the little button to 1:52 the guy comes on then.


 :lol: And miss the chipmunks??  :lol:


hey didn't kimmy get her heart broken by Alvin? :shock:[/quote]

Well, there was that rumor. . . . . . .  :shock:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: SunFreak2 on July 09, 2006, 12:30:38 AM
This is intersting:

Went from Deepak --> Koen G --> Karen Martina and there is Valentjin in a picture with Karen.  Also has Jaime liested as friend and that Adrian Gorgoza guy.

Is this THE Karen?

http://connect.tickle.com/photo/surf.html?id=YsQRaaRPQ3AJAba_&photoid=AuD9ww49uEgNmigFyECw4nyqdw-EujlI


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Sleuth on July 09, 2006, 12:34:44 AM
:lol: San _ I'm past the 1:52 mark.  I've listened to the Palm Reader in Alvin the chipmunk mode and then in regular mode.  

I'm now on to replaying the one from tonight to see if it is the same...

If you play tonight's, lower your volume or you will get blown away  :wink:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: dkpen on July 09, 2006, 12:35:55 AM
Quote from: "crazybabyborg"
I think that asking the FBI to solve this case when all the evidence is gone is optimistic at best.......IF that's the only way to skin that cat. It's not. For the FBI to do a proper investigation, it would HAVE to include following the trail of the missing evidence, which takes them directly to ALE and the prosecutor. The resulting investigation of ALE would, in my opinion, yield a harvest of information. The FBI could nail some folks in a cover up, and the press would, once again, hit tourism. Criminal charges could easily come from a bright light on the corruption, and THAT alone could cause people to talk. There is hope, just by exposing the lies.



IF and when the FBI investigate, once the case is closed, and Aruba ALE/Officials don't cooperate, can FBI arrest them or press charges against them for violation to the treaty? Or turn them over to the Interpol to be investigated in cover-up and corruption in violation to Human Rights act with the Interpol?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: mrs. red on July 09, 2006, 12:37:41 AM
good night monkeys... after listening to Art, I am humbled by how much information we have found over the past year and it's all been true regardless of how many times we have been lead down the wrong paths or told we are going down the wrong path....

so keep the faith and keep up the good work!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: crazybabyborg on July 09, 2006, 12:38:26 AM
Quote from: "mrs. red"
good night monkeys... after listening to Art, I am humbled by how much information we have found over the past year and it's all been true regardless of how many times we have been lead down the wrong paths or told we are going down the wrong path....

so keep the faith and keep up the good work!


Nite, Mrs. Red! Sleep well!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Anna on July 09, 2006, 12:41:31 AM
Goodnight, Mrs Red,

Think I will pack it in as well.  Goodnight, all.

.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Sleuth on July 09, 2006, 12:42:44 AM
Nite Mrs. Red - sleep well!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Sleuth on July 09, 2006, 12:44:40 AM
Nite Anna - sleep well!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: BTgirl on July 09, 2006, 12:46:44 AM
Here is a new mystery for you to solve monkeys.

I'll be checking tomorrow to see if any of you have figured it out.

I had turned off my computer and gone into the potty prior to turning in for the night. When I walked into the bathroom, imagine my surprise when I looked down and saw this in the commode.

My question is, how the heck did it get in there? :shock:

(http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d162/Muzzydog/100_0238.jpg)


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Sleuth on July 09, 2006, 12:47:29 AM
Just listened again to Klaasend's southern drawl   :wink:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Port Valerie on July 09, 2006, 12:50:06 AM
If the case ever does get into a court, Klaas should be called in as an expert witness. I believe she has a better handle on this case than some of the lawyers involved.
 :)

One year since the guy fell off the cruise ship. Last year was quite a summer, wasn't it?

Well, it's late. Saying goodnight. Or going back into hiding as AZ would say. Think I will change my name to Troglodyte.  :lol:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Sleuth on July 09, 2006, 12:51:11 AM
Quote from: "BTgirl"
Here is a new mystery for you to solve monkeys.

I'll be checking tomorrow to see if any of you have figured it out.

I had turned off my computer and gone into the potty prior to turning in for the night. When I walked into the bathroom, imagine my surprise when I looked down and saw this in the commode.

My question is, how the heck did it get in there? :shock:

(http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d162/Muzzydog/100_0238.jpg)


It came in through Terry The Squirrel's window, or perhaps when you brought Easy the Sock Monkey in for the night.  It then just headed for the water   :lol:  :lol:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: klaasend on July 09, 2006, 12:52:44 AM
Quote from: "Sleuth"
Just listened again to Klaasend's southern drawl   :wink:

LOL - I'll have to listen to it now! :lol:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: klaasend on July 09, 2006, 12:53:39 AM
I missed alot of the action tonight.  Had some PC problems and needed to do some cleanup and reboot.  All better now!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: BTgirl on July 09, 2006, 12:53:45 AM
Quote from: "Sleuth"

It came in through Terry The Squirrel's window, or perhaps when you brought Easy the Sock Monkey in for the night.  It then just headed for the water   :lol:  :lol:


 :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

By the way, I just went back into the bathroom to see if that place that looks like a horrible stain is really on the commode, and I can't find anything that looks like that. Hubby is comforting me by saying it's something strange that happened when the flash went off.

I swear I do clean the commodes in this house! :oops:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: BTgirl on July 09, 2006, 12:54:44 AM
I'm really going to sleep this time, monkeys.

See everyone tomorrow.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Sleuth on July 09, 2006, 12:56:38 AM
Quote from: "BTgirl"
 
I swear I do clean the commodes in this house! :oops:


Oh, I believe you clean it.  It looks like you use animal labor to help you out   :lol:  :cry:  :cry:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Sleuth on July 09, 2006, 12:57:33 AM
Quote from: "Sleuth"
Quote from: "BTgirl"
 
I swear I do clean the commodes in this house! :oops:


Oh, I believe you clean it.  It looks like you use animal labor to help you out   :lol:  :cry:  :cry:


Oops - I didn't mean to have any sad faces - I meant to have 3 laughing faces   :lol:  :lol:  :lol:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Sleuth on July 09, 2006, 01:01:40 AM
Finished replaying both last week's and tonight's Dana show.  I guess my conclusion is if you play them at 5x the normal speed it does sound like Jim the Palm Reader in both cases.    :lol:  :lol:

I never could tell those chipmunk voices apart  :wink:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Kat_Gram on July 09, 2006, 01:01:57 AM
Quote from: "crazybabyborg"
Would the FBI be hindered from speaking with Koen? Couldn't Holland assist with that effort? If Aruba closed the case, and the FBI came up with something substantial, could it be re-opened?

If Aruba can't speak to him when the case is open, I doubt if the FBI could re interview anyone if when the case is closed.
The other thing is :
Let 's say that the FBI gets enough info to bring the suspects to a court.
Where would that court be ? Aruba, Holland or the US ?
These are questions for a lawyer.
If the civil case goes forward in the US and there is testimony that
makes it clear what happened, then what? It is the same question.
We know who was responsible, but is there enough to convict ?
I think that K J could lay some charges against Deepak and Satish and then, the crown witness thing could be viable. I can't see any other way to make those two talk. Except to be given something in return for rolling over on J-Goon. Even if the " something " is a walk.
Larry Garrison would have some insight into the character of Deepak.
And a few others who injected themselves into this to spread the bs around. Everyone who is involved in this from Julia to ScubaJap to whoever Medley Relay is. They just kept throwing out info on people that had nothing to do with this.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: SunFreak2 on July 09, 2006, 01:02:26 AM
G'night Mrs Red & BT.

Hello Angelalala - welcome.

Great day of discussion followed by a great evening of talk radio.

I have a date with Mr Sandman in a few.  TTYL.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: klaasend on July 09, 2006, 01:03:00 AM
Quote from: "SunFreak2"
G'night Mrs Red & BT.

Hello Angelalala - welcome.

Great day of discussion followed by a great evening of talk radio.

I have a date with Mr Sandman in a few.  TTYL.

Nite Sunfreak - see you tomorrow  :lol:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: San on July 09, 2006, 01:07:40 AM
Quote from: "Sleuth"
Finished replaying both last week's and tonight's Dana show.  I guess my conclusion is if you play them at 5x the normal speed it does sound like Jim the Palm Reader in both cases.    :lol:  :lol:

I never could tell those chipmunk voices apart  :wink:

 :lol:  :lol:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: San on July 09, 2006, 01:10:06 AM
GOODNIGHT EVERYONE


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: klaasend on July 09, 2006, 01:10:24 AM
Quote from: "San"
GOODNIGHT EVERYONE


Goodnight San!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: San on July 09, 2006, 01:11:36 AM
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "San"
GOODNIGHT EVERYONE


Goodnight San!

By the way Klaas you sounded great.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: klaasend on July 09, 2006, 01:12:16 AM
Quote from: "San"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "San"
GOODNIGHT EVERYONE


Goodnight San!

By the way Klaas you sounded great.

Thanks San, I just listened to it.  Didn't sound nearly as old as I feel, LOLOL  :lol:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Sleuth on July 09, 2006, 01:13:21 AM
Nite SunFreak2, Nite San.

Morning Jerry  :wink:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: San on July 09, 2006, 01:13:53 AM
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "San"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "San"
GOODNIGHT EVERYONE


Goodnight San!

By the way Klaas you sounded great.

Thanks San, I just listened to it.  Didn't sound nearly as old as I feel, LOLOL  :lol:

First of all you're not old and secondly you can run circles around me.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: klaasend on July 09, 2006, 01:14:01 AM
I just noticed something.  There is not one person logged on to the Refugee forum right now...and...they don't even have a thread on Dana's show.  I take that as a good sign.   :wink:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: the big hammer on July 09, 2006, 01:14:29 AM
Pool vs Rocks

Can anyone source commentary re: pool & Natalee's head hitting side of?

klaas posted earlier today NE article stating that  ISA headmaster said jvds says Natalee hit head on rocks at beach.

but POOL side head hit was big for a while  -- does anyone have corroboration for this?

Thanks... !


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: klaasend on July 09, 2006, 01:15:06 AM
Quote from: "San"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "San"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "San"
GOODNIGHT EVERYONE


Goodnight San!

By the way Klaas you sounded great.

Thanks San, I just listened to it.  Didn't sound nearly as old as I feel, LOLOL  :lol:

First of all you're not old and secondly you can run circles around me.

I don't think so San but thanks for the vote of confidence  :wink:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: klaasend on July 09, 2006, 01:17:08 AM
Quote from: "the big hammer"
Pool vs Rocks

Can anyone source commentary re: pool & Natalee's head hitting side of?

klaas posted earlier today NE article stating that  ISA headmaster said jvds says Natalee hit head on rocks at beach.

but POOL side head hit was big for a while  -- does anyone have corroboration for this?

Thanks... !

Hammer, I don't think so.  I think there's been alot of speculation that the head hitting could have been at the VDS pool.  It's possible but there aren't that many rocks around that pool.  I lean towards the rocks near the lighthouse or a car hitting her.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: klaasend on July 09, 2006, 01:18:40 AM
I should add, if she hit her head accidentally it was because she was trying to get away.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: klaasend on July 09, 2006, 01:20:06 AM
They had done this 20 times before.  This time the girl wasn't willing and that was the difference.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: the big hammer on July 09, 2006, 01:26:21 AM
Pool : Klaas

Klaas -- not necessarily believing.

I need to know verifiable reports indicating "pool" head hit.  

The story of pool has been part of lore for a long time -- from whence it is sourced?  Any idea?

WHERE DOES THIS COME FROM?

ISA headmaster as you cited earlier says "rocks and drowned".  

Do you recall anything related to "POOL"


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: crazybabyborg on July 09, 2006, 01:28:06 AM
Klaas...............I'm just listening and you sound really great!!!! Excellent job! You can be spokesman for the cage ANYtime. I personally believe that JQK should hire you to be at his side. There's no one better informed!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: San on July 09, 2006, 01:28:07 AM
OK I signed back on because I wanted to ask this question.  What are the odds that Van der Straaten helped dispose of Natalee's body that first night.  I think Paulus called him as soon as it happened.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: klaasend on July 09, 2006, 01:28:17 AM
Quote from: "the big hammer"
Pool : Klaas

Klaas -- not necessarily believing.

I need to know verifiable reports indicating "pool" head hit.  

The story of pool has been part of lore for a long time -- from whence it is sourced?  Any idea?

WHERE DOES THIS COME FROM?

ISA headmaster as you cited earlier says "rocks and drowned".  

Do you recall anything related to "POOL"

Hammer - I think it's been mearly speculation by some with no verifiable reports.  I'll search and see if there are any documented reports on it though.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: crazybabyborg on July 09, 2006, 01:31:24 AM
Quote from: "San"
OK I signed back on because I wanted to ask this question.  What are the odds that Van der Straaten helped dispose of Natalee's body that first night.  I think Paulus called him as soon as it happened.


I've always speculated about that. I think it's possible, even probable. The first night, I think the kids handled it. Beyond that, the adults did, and I think VDStratten could very well have been one of them. It would give another very good reason why he kept his fingers in the case. He was protecting his own a$$ as well as others.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Sleuth on July 09, 2006, 01:33:24 AM
Hammer - I don't recall ever seeing a source regarding her hitting her head on the pool, just rumors.  I will check, however...give me a few minutes...


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: klaasend on July 09, 2006, 01:34:20 AM
Quote from: "crazybabyborg"
Quote from: "San"
OK I signed back on because I wanted to ask this question.  What are the odds that Van der Straaten helped dispose of Natalee's body that first night.  I think Paulus called him as soon as it happened.


I've always speculated about that. I think it's possible, even probable. The first night, I think the kids handled it. Beyond that, the adults did, and I think VDStratten could very well have been one of them. It would give another very good reason why he kept his fingers in the case. He was protecting his own a$$ as well as others.


San - I agree, very possible that Van Der Straaten helped with the disposal.

CBB - thank you!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: LouiseVargas on July 09, 2006, 01:37:03 AM
Hello Monkeys,

I always get here late when the east coast Monkeys have gone to bed. Any midwest and west coast Monkeys still here? Klaas, you have a southern accent?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: spooky112483 on July 09, 2006, 01:37:09 AM
Quote from: "Tylergal"
Quote from: "BTgirl"
Quote from: "terryd270"
I don't think they ever liked us in the first place, we were just toys to these kids.  Well if Dana keeps having these programs, then we might get the answers we all seek and help John Q. Kelly.


If more people listened to Dana's program, we'd have more people who were furious about the case and demanding answers from Aruba.

Does anyone have any ideas on how to expand Dana's audience?


Marketing is everything.  Do we have any marketing grads here?


hmmm. Tylergal, you know that career opportunity I have been talking to you about? You think maybe I should bring this to them? :wink:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: the big hammer on July 09, 2006, 01:37:35 AM
POOL : search

Thanks.

This is important as to comments of sharon earlier today.

The first known comments of ANY of the 3, preceeding HT Family arrival, are important to review as well as timeline of story changes: drop off morph to beach story.

ISA Head master is earliest known report when accounting for critical dimensions of time -- as this is one of the few reports known to have been available in 3-dimension time as to actually PRECEEDING pvds alibi engagement --

-- ARE THERE MORE OF THESE?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: the big hammer on July 09, 2006, 01:43:05 AM
SLEUTH -- Talk To Me...

Where did the "POOL HEAD HIT STORY" originate?

Where does this come from?

It was my recollection this was what ISA headmaster says reporting what jvds tells classmates.  Klaas produces NE report (verified) that ISA headmaster says "rocks and beach" for head hit.

Who said POOL?

Do we know?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: LouiseVargas on July 09, 2006, 01:45:41 AM
Please, can anyone update me on Sharon's important comments earlier today? I've been gone all day.

I rarely ask this favor.  Thank you.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: the big hammer on July 09, 2006, 01:49:45 AM
THREE DIMENSIONAL TIME -- THINK!

We must account for time dimensions and dates:

1.  WHEN it is reported on wire.

2.  WHEN subject says it.

3.  WHEN subject says it happened.

The critical dimension is point 3 above.  ISA headmaster, eg, says what jvds said during school on the day immeduiately following Natalee's disappearance...

BUT...jvds changes story hours later when confronted by HT Family in driveway: HI drop off lie & alibi.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: klaasend on July 09, 2006, 01:51:34 AM
Quote from: "LouiseVargas"
Please, can anyone update me on Sharon's important comments earlier today? I've been gone all day.

I rarely ask this favor.  Thank you.

Louise - I believe Sharon was saying and Hammer was agreeing that statements made by any of the suspects or reports of what they said prior to their meeting to make up their stories will hold more truth.

The example given was the report of the headmaster saying that Joran told him Natalee fell and hit her head on the rocks.  We are searching for all the early statements we can find.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: LouiseVargas on July 09, 2006, 01:54:35 AM
Ah, thank you Klaas.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: klaasend on July 09, 2006, 01:55:07 AM
Early press report June 1, 2005


NBC13.com
May 31: High School Student Missing In Aruba

POSTED: 10:11 pm CDT May 31, 2005
BIRMINGHAM, Ala. -- A Mountain Brook teen is missing in Aruba.

A high school's senior trip to Aruba went terribly wrong for a local family. The trip ended without Natalie Holloway returning.

The 18-year-old went to a nightclub in Aruba with a man she befriended while on the trip. She was last seen in the man's car leaving the club at about 1 a.m. Monday.

The man, who lives in Aruba, has been interrogated and his car is in FBI custody.

The FBI along with local authorities are investigating Holloway's disappearance. School officials said the event is not school sponsored and is the choice of the students and parents if they want to go.

Holloway's family is in Aruba helping in the investigation.

The trip has been by taken by Mountain Brook students and chaperones for the last three years. About 138 seniors and seven chaperones took the trip this year.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: the big hammer on July 09, 2006, 01:57:17 AM
Before pvds Can Get To Them

Klaas says: "...I believe Sharon was saying and Hammer was agreeing that statements made by any of the suspects or reports of what they said prior to their meeting to make up their stories will hold more truth..."

EXACTLY.

Is ther any corroboration of headmaster's reporting re: "head and rocks at beach"?

AND where does POOL story come from?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: mishy on July 09, 2006, 01:58:27 AM
Hey Hammer, LouiseVargas, Klaasend, Sleuth, and all you other monkeys out there....how are ya'll doing tonight? LV, where have you been? I keep missing you!!

Klaas has email...


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: klaasend on July 09, 2006, 01:58:58 AM
Family of Alabama teen missing in Aruba offers reward

6/2/2005, 5:04 p.m. CT
By TITO LACLE
The Associated Press  

ORANJESTAD, Aruba (AP) — The family of an Alabama high school graduate who disappeared in Aruba offered a reward for her safe return Thursday, as scores of tourists and locals volunteered to post fliers and help in the search.

Natalee Holloway's family asked Aruba radio and television stations to broadcast the reward offer, though they did not specify an amount, said her mother, Beth Holloway Twitty. The family promised to reward anyone who brings the missing teenager safely to a police station or hospital, she said.

Holloway, 18, was among 125 seniors from Mountain Brook High School, near Birmingham, on a five-day trip to the Dutch Caribbean island.

FBI officials, Aruba police and Dutch authorities have been searching for her since Monday, when she did not show up for her group's return flight. Several family members traveled to Aruba to help in the search.

"Everybody has been quite supportive," the mother told The Associated Press. "I am not leaving. I am going to have Natalee with me."

Holloway was last seen by friends getting into a vehicle and leaving the Carlos and Charlie's nightclub in the capital of Oranjestad before dawn Monday.

Police questioned and released three Aruban men who said they dropped Holloway off early Monday at the Holiday Inn, where she had been staying, said police assistant inspector Jules Sambo. The three were not suspects, he said.

"We don't have any indication as to if she is alive," Sambo said. "The whole population is aware that she is missing. The police are doing everything to find her."

Police, using helicopters and all-terrain vehicles and patrol cars, were combing the Arashi area in the northwestern tip of Aruba, a rugged terrain of sand dunes, craters and beaches. The area is near the Holiday Inn, which is about three miles from the capital.

More than 100 people, mostly American tourists, offered to help during a gathering Thursday morning at the Holiday Inn, organized by International Friends of Aruba, a group of wives of Americans working on the island. The volunteers were distributing fliers with the teenager's photo in various parts of the island.

"She has a very loving family and is a very happy girl," said Haleigh Uncapher, a classmate who delivered a flier to local Magic radio station.

Aruba, with a population of about 72,000, is off the north coast of Venezuela and is part of the Netherlands Antilles.

Why would the police be searching the Lighthouse and Arashi Beach area on June 2nd if they were told the HI drop off lie already?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Kat_Gram on July 09, 2006, 01:59:29 AM
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "LouiseVargas"
Please, can anyone update me on Sharon's important comments earlier today? I've been gone all day.

I rarely ask this favor.  Thank you.

Louise - I believe Sharon was saying and Hammer was agreeing that statements made by any of the suspects or reports of what they said prior to their meeting to make up their stories will hold more truth.

The example given was the report of the headmaster saying that Joran told him Natalee fell and hit her head on the rocks.  We are searching for all the early statements we can find.

Jug went to the school and I know that the headmaster spoke to him then. I believe that was the Wednesday. The Monday, Joran told some of his  school mates that he was " knocking boots "  with the American girl. It is an odd expression isn't it ?  :roll:  :roll:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: mishy on July 09, 2006, 02:00:04 AM
Quote from: "the big hammer"
Before pvds Can Get To Them

Klaas says: "...I believe Sharon was saying and Hammer was agreeing that statements made by any of the suspects or reports of what they said prior to their meeting to make up their stories will hold more truth..."

EXACTLY.

Is ther any corroboration of headmaster's reporting re: "head and rocks at beach"?

AND where does POOL story come from?


Hammer,
I wish I could help you. I remember talk of pool, but can't say if it were speculation or if we actually heard talk of it...


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: klaasend on July 09, 2006, 02:01:26 AM
Alabama Girl Missing for 4th Day in Aruba

By MICHAEL NORTON
Associated Press Writer
June 3, 2005, 7:14 AM EDT

ORANJESTAD, Aruba -- Natalee Holloway disappeared on the last night of a trip to Aruba to celebrate her graduation from high school. Four days later, the Alabama teenager is still unaccounted for, despite an extensive search of the Caribbean island.

"Honestly, at the beginning, we were hopeful the girl would come back," said police Superintendent Jan van der Straaten. "Today, we are more and more thinking about the possibility of a crime."

On the island remarkable for its absence of violent crime, hundreds of residents and tourists posted flyers to help the hunt. FBI agents helped the Dutch military and Aruba police scour outlying scrubland with helicopters and all-terrain vehicles but found no trace of the 18-year-old.

Aruba radio and television stations broadcast a reward offer from Holloway's family, though they did not specify an amount. The family promised to reward anyone who brings her safely to a police station or hospital.

"Everybody has been quite supportive," the teenager's mother, Beth Holloway Twitty, told The Associated Press. "I am not leaving. I am going to have Natalee with me."

Holloway came to Aruba for a five-day excursion with 124 seniors and 40 chaperons from Mountain Brook High School, near Birmingham, Ala. She was last seen around 2 a.m. Monday, Attorney-General Caren Janssen said Thursday.

Police discount the possibility she left the island, because they found her passport in her hotel room, van der Straaten said.

Hopes were lifted briefly just before midnight Thursday when a news photographer said he had seen Holloway on the west side of the island. Police rushed to the scene but found an island girl who fit the description but had brown hair, not Holloway's long blond tresses.

Dressed in the same blue and green striped low-cut blouse and jean miniskirt that she wore at the beach earlier in the day, Holloway spent Sunday evening partying at Carlos 'N Charlie's, a popular restaurant and dance spot where tourists and locals meet in the capital, Oranjestad.

She left 10 minutes before closing at 1 a.m., said the restaurant's master of ceremonies Jose Hernandez, 38. "Nothing was out of the ordinary."

Friends saw her getting into a vehicle outside the nightclub. She did not show up to catch her flight Monday. Her stepmother, Robin Holloway, said Natalee was last seen with a local resident who claimed to be a foreign exchange student.

So by June 3rd they are saying it looks like a crime.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Easywriter on July 09, 2006, 02:04:32 AM
I don’t think Van Der Stratten, or Dompig are behind this cover-up.  Think of their words.  Why implicate those you wish to protect?  

Someone hushed them and it came from high up.  Why?  What about this disappearance would make the knees of a country buckle?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: klaasend on July 09, 2006, 02:04:41 AM
FBI Joins Search for Missing Ala. Teen

Saturday June 4, 2005 10:31 AM
By MICHAEL NORTON
Associated Press Writer

ORANJESTAD, Aruba (AP) - More FBI agents headed to Aruba to help search for an Alabama teenager whose disappearance on the last day of a high school graduation trip has shaken the quiet Dutch Caribbean island.

Police and volunteers combed beaches and scrubland for a fifth consecutive day, but found no sign of Natalee Holloway, 18, whose mother had tearfully pleaded for more U.S. help in the search.

Her mother and stepfather rushed to a police station late Friday night when police thought they might have found the teen in a car with some and stepfather held hands and smiled as they emerged from the station outside the capital of Oranjestad, saying the woman was not their daughter but they were confident she would be found.

``I know we'll find her,'' said Beth Holloway Twitty.

Justice Minister Rudy Croes announced late Friday that more FBI agents were on the way to Aruba, though he did not specify how many or say how many were already on the island. FBI officials did not return calls seeking comment.

Authorities say there is no evidence that the honors student was abducted, but police commissioner Jan van der Straaten said ``after four or five days you are afraid a crime has been committed.''

Her mother had pleaded earlier Friday for the Dutch government to request more direct help from the United States.

``We all have a common goal to find Natalee so we can bring her home,'' Holloway Twitty told reporters in a hotel conference room. She choked up and left the room in tears.

Aruban Attorney General Caren Janssen had insisted earlier that local authorities did not need more U.S. help. U.S. State Department spokesman Sean McCormack said Washington was ``making sure that we provide all possible assistance to the family and local authorities.''

A $50,000 reward has been offered for information leading to Holloway's rescue, said Myrna Jansen, the director of Aruba's tourism office. The Aruban government and local tourism organizations were contributing $20,000, while family and benefactors in Alabama were offering the rest, she said.

Aruba's coast guard began searching surrounding waters, indicating authorities were considering the possibility Holloway was taken off the island with or without her consent. Police found her passport in her hotel.

Holloway spent the last night of her holiday at Carlos 'N Charlie's bar and restaurant in the capital, eating and dancing with classmates and residents. She didn't show up for her return flight.

Croes said police questioned and released two Surinamese nationals and a native of the Netherlands who said they dropped Holloway off early Monday at the Holiday Inn where she had been staying, rectifying police reports that the three men had been Aruban students. He said the three men were residents of Aruba.

The search has not been extended to Venezuela, whose coastline is only 25 miles from Aruba at the nearest point, or the neighboring Dutch island of Curacao, van der Straaten said.

Holloway had just graduated and earned a full scholarship at the University of Alabama, where she planned to study premed, said her uncle Paul Reynolds, who traveled from Houston to help in the search.

Reynolds said his niece was a responsible person who would not have run away.

``Natalee is very smart and focused,'' Reynolds said. ``It never crossed my mind that she intentionally missed the flight. When she did, I knew something was terribly wrong.''

Posters with a photograph of Holloway have been put up throughout island, with a caption reading: ``Kidnapped since 1:30 a.m. May 30.''

On an island remarkable for its friendliness, pristine beaches and an absence of violent crime, Holloway's disappearance has shocked islanders, many of whom say they are optimistic she will be found alive.

``She's not on the island,'' said Jany Winterdal, a 51-year-old taxi driver. ``In Aruba, we don't know what doing bad things to people is. For me, she's alive.''

There have been two murders and three rapes on the island of 72,000 people this year, compared to one murder and six rapes last year, none involving foreigners, police said.

Aruba has an average of 13,000 tourists on any given day at this time of the year, the Tourism Authority said.

On June 4th KJ says she doesn't need any help from the US.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: LouiseVargas on July 09, 2006, 02:05:08 AM
Mishy,

I'm so happy to see you. I usually get to the LCD late 'cause I live on the west coast. What part of the country are you in?

I've missed you too!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: klaasend on July 09, 2006, 02:05:26 AM
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e82/klaasend2/threadlock.jpg)


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: mishy on July 09, 2006, 02:05:38 AM
Klaas wrote:

Why would the police be searching the Lighthouse and Arashi Beach area on June 2nd if they were told the HI drop off lie already?


Good point, Klaas!!! When was the pow wow around the pool supposed to have taken place?

I will say that when I read the following on the day it was released, I was :shock:  :shock:  :shock:  :shock:  :shock:  :shock:

I was yelling at the computer "Released!?!?!?!?!" "Not suspects!?!?!?!?!?!?"

Police questioned and released three Aruban men who said they dropped Holloway off early Monday at the Holiday Inn, where she had been staying, said police assistant inspector Jules Sambo. The three were not suspects


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Sleuth on July 09, 2006, 02:05:54 AM
Quote from: "the big hammer"
SLEUTH -- Talk To Me...

Where did the "POOL HEAD HIT STORY" originate?

Where does this come from?

It was my recollection this was what ISA headmaster says reporting what jvds tells classmates.  Klaas produces NE report (verified) that ISA headmaster says "rocks and beach" for head hit.

Who said POOL?

Do we know?


Hammer, sorry, but I don't recall a pool head hit story, and I just checked and can't find anything regarding this.   I see the same ISA headmaster report as Klaas.  

I've heard three "hit her head" theories or stories:
1.  The statements (later found to be untrue) where Natalee hit her head while getting out of the car at the HI
2.  Theory regarding her hitting her head in the rocks area
3.  Theory of her hitting her head while falling off the pier that is up in the Marriot Beach area - the one near the Moomba Beach Bar


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: mishy on July 09, 2006, 02:06:18 AM
Quote from: "LouiseVargas"
Mishy,

I'm so happy to see you. I usually get to the LCD late 'cause I live on the west coast. What part of the country are you in?

I've missed you too!


In da South...


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: klaasend on July 09, 2006, 02:06:47 AM
HAMMER - Here is your KIDNAPPING charges:

U.S. teenager remains missing in Aruba

BIRMINGHAM, AL, Jun. 4 (UPI)

The search for a missing 18-year-old Mount Brook, Ala., girl missing in Aruba has turned into a suspected kidnapping case.

The teenager was in Aruba on a trip that was not sponsored by her high school, but which has been taken by more than 100 students and their chaperones for three years.

Her friends saw Natalie get into a vehicle outside a nightclub early Monday, the last morning of a senior trip to the Caribbean island nation.

An unidentified man accompanying her was subsequently taken into FBI custody, but no other information had been released by Saturday.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: igsigs on July 09, 2006, 02:10:45 AM
Klaas, thanks for the old articles. Nothing much seems to have changed since.

Hammer - not familiar with any direct reference to *pool*. Speculation about such an offshoot of Joran's drowning statement. Then the concrete work done in pool area along with Joran's 'stopped outside his house' statement brought speculation anew. Some of it very reasonable, IMO.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Sleuth on July 09, 2006, 02:10:56 AM
Quote from: "mishy"
Hey Hammer, LouiseVargas, Klaasend, Sleuth, and all you other monkeys out there....how are ya'll doing tonight? LV, where have you been? I keep missing you!!

Klaas has email...


Hi Mishy,  I'm good - how are you.

Hammer has us on a mission to find the origin of a story of Natalee hitting her head on the VDS pool (and if we found it, when was the story told, and when did they say it happened), and so far we can't find anything about this...


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: klaasend on July 09, 2006, 02:11:09 AM
Men Questioned In Search For Teen Missing In Aruba
Three Men Called 'Persons Of Interest'

UPDATED: 5:00 pm CDT June 4, 2005

ORANJESTAD, Aruba -- Three men who said they dropped off an Alabama teenager at her hotel have emerged as "the most important lead" in the honor student's disappearance on this Dutch Caribbean island, police said Saturday.

Police, Dutch troops and hundreds of volunteers scouring coastline and beaches for six days have found no trace of Natalee Holloway, 18.

Deputy police chief Gerold Dompig said authorities were investigating the background and story of two Surinamese men and a native of the Netherlands who said they dropped her off at the Holiday Inn before dawn Monday.

Domping declined to call the men suspects, saying they were "persons of interest," but said the men were "the most important lead."

"We are working diligently," Domping said. "I want everybody to hold their breaths for the next 24 hours. There will be developments after this weekend."

An official close to the investigation said the three men -- legal Aruban residents between the ages of 18 and 25 -- told police they had taken Holloway to a beach at the northwestern tip of Aruba before dropping her off at the hotel.

But her uncle, Paul Reynolds, said he was told security cameras did not show Holloway returning to the hotel that night. Police declined to comment on that report.

Holloway was on a five-day excursion with 124 seniors and several chaperones from Mountain Brook High School, near Birmingham, Ala. She spent the last night of her vacation eating and dancing at Carlos 'N Charlie's bar and restaurant.

She didn't show up for her return flight, and police found her passport in her hotel room with her packed bags.

"Natalee's bags were packed and she's ready to go home," her mother, Beth Holloway Twitty, told a news conference. "Please help bring her home."

Holloway, a straight-A student, had earned a full scholarship at the University of Alabama and planned to study premed, Reynolds said. He described his niece as a levelheaded girl who would not have done anything rash.

Ten more FBI agents joined the search Saturday for the girl, Attorney General Caren Jansse said. "We need more technical assistance," she said, declining to elaborate.

Hey, they are the most important lead in the case and ALE knew they were lying.  They weren't detained as suspects but as witnesses and they lied yet they weren't detained for lying on June 4th.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: mishy on July 09, 2006, 02:11:29 AM
Guys, I hate to pop in and run, but I gotta get up early for church in the morning. Great seeing you all...LouiseVargas, shoot me an email when ya can so we can catch up  :lol:

Love you guys!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: LouiseVargas on July 09, 2006, 02:14:28 AM
I was very surprised when I heard about the pool story, although I felt early on that they took Natalee to the VDS home. I read stuff like she was trying to run away and jumped over a gate and hit her head. I guess it's logical that if I believed the crime took place at the VDS's there could be a scenario at the pool. However, if she was given Rohypnol, even if she were coming in and out of consciousness, I don't she would be up to jumping over a gate. She would have been groggy and uncoordinated. And what was she supposed to have been doing by the pool? Running away and fell down by the pool side? That doesn't sound right to me.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Sleuth on July 09, 2006, 02:15:13 AM
Hammer - I called in to Dana's show last Sunday with your question regarding why haven't abduction/kidnapping charges been brought against Joran and K2s.  Also asked about the gambling and drinking establishments and why charges have not been brought against them.

Art never got to those questions.  I think I'll email them in to Dana for his next interview - he did say that he will have another Natalee-related interview next weekend.

Also check my nominations for the next interview   :wink:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: klaasend on July 09, 2006, 02:16:00 AM
Goodnight All

Hammer - I'll keep searching tomorrow


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: mishy on July 09, 2006, 02:16:33 AM
I will add that I was taking a computer class on the morning that Natalee missed her flight and my instructor was a Mtn Brook mom, who had just received word about Natalee on her email and told me about it. She said whoever emailed her said that they were searching for a "father and son" in relation to her disappearance...

It was weeks later when I heard speculation on the blogs or MSM that a "father" might have been involved...do I have that timeline right?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: mishy on July 09, 2006, 02:18:30 AM
Goodnight everyone. I'll check back to this page tomorrow afternoon. I hope everyone sleeps well  8)


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Sleuth on July 09, 2006, 02:18:44 AM
Klaasend wrote:
Why would the police be searching the Lighthouse and Arashi Beach area on June 2nd if they were told the HI drop off lie already?

Good point, Klaasend.  This only makes sense if by that time they knew it was a lie.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Easywriter on July 09, 2006, 02:23:58 AM
Okay, Van Der Stratten wants to protect Joran, so he says Joran confessed?  Then Dompig wants to perpetuate the cover-up by telling the world that the three suspects are “guilty as hell!”

I just don’t get it!  Someone hushed them and it came from high up.

Why?  What about this disappearance would make the knees of a country buckle?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Sleuth on July 09, 2006, 02:24:06 AM
Nite Mishy.  

Nite Klaasend - like the others said, you sounded great tonight and that was a good question about the cell transmission.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Sleuth on July 09, 2006, 02:24:51 AM
"We are working diligently," Domping said. "I want everybody to hold their breaths for the next 24 hours. There will be developments after this weekend."


Good thing none of us held or breaths waiting for Dompig...


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Sleuth on July 09, 2006, 02:28:32 AM
Quote from: "mishy"
I will add that I was taking a computer class on the morning that Natalee missed her flight and my instructor was a Mtn Brook mom, who had just received word about Natalee on her email and told me about it. She said whoever emailed her said that they were searching for a "father and son" in relation to her disappearance...

It was weeks later when I heard speculation on the blogs or MSM that a "father" might have been involved...do I have that timeline right?


WOW Mishy, if that instructor had that on the day Natalee went missing, I wonder who she received the email from.  If it was the morning Natalee went missing, that would have been PRIOR to Beth and Jug arriving and visiting the VDS property.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Sleuth on July 09, 2006, 02:34:10 AM
Quote from: "Easywriter"
Okay, Van Der Stratten wants to protect Joran, so he says Joran confessed?  Then Dompig wants to perpetuate the cover-up by telling the world that the three suspects are “guilty as hell!”

I just don’t get it!  Someone hushed them and it came from high up.

Why?  What about this disappearance would make the knees of a country buckle?


Why is the big question.  I think knowing why would lead us to the 'what' as in what happened.  

The longer this drags out and the more that retire or are fired the more I feel this is a much bigger issue....why would anyone risk all the tourist business.  If it were just Joran and/or K2s the country would not allow this coverup to continue.  It has to be much, much larger.

IMO, to solve will take the FBI interrogations or perhaps a crown witness....


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Anna on July 09, 2006, 02:46:28 AM
.
HAMMER

If you are still here, I am up taking Alka Seltzer,  this case has that effect on me.   :(

There was no pool mentioned in the beginning because we did not even know the Sloots had a pool.  That will be found much, much later on.

Wish I could find in RWV archives for several of us spent days on the first twenty four hours after Natalee disappeared.  But Joran told HM she hit her head on a ROCK for sure, no pool.  In fact the first knowledge of the existence of the pool likely came on the day of the fake search of the VDSloot property.  Try around in that area which would be like Day 14 to 16 after she was missing.  Meanwhile I will see what I can find of old timeline for first day and actually first forty-eight hours.

By Tuesday morning, Paulus was explaining to HM that Joran would not be seen on the video at HI because the tape was broken.  Little did Paulus know Beth already had the tape and all were already viewing it.    This was the day the HM told Paulus he must have put Natalee in the Spanish Lagoon driving Joran to school the day beefier which would have been Monday.  I know, I know!  Anita and Julia have said he rode the bus, etc. as have others but I know what I heard.  That's what I think and that's what I know.   :evil:


.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Sleuth on July 09, 2006, 02:56:14 AM
Quote from: "Jacqueline"
If possible, please someone recap the show tonight.
Out for the evening.........
TIA



For you, anything...
 :wink:
http://www.scaredmonkeys.net/viewtopic.php?p=10970#10970


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Sleuth on July 09, 2006, 02:58:10 AM
I heard the Spanish Lagoon story also, Anna...you are not alone.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Sleuth on July 09, 2006, 03:01:49 AM
Hammer -  I have been looking and still haven't seen anything regarding hitting her head on the pool..


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Sleuth on July 09, 2006, 03:03:52 AM
OK Monkeys, shutting the lights out for the night.  Will keep the candle for Natalee burning though.

Wake me with a cup of coffee tomorrow, will ya?  :wink:

Nite all.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: spooky112483 on July 09, 2006, 03:09:12 AM
Quote from: "Sleuth"
Quote from: "mishy"
I will add that I was taking a computer class on the morning that Natalee missed her flight and my instructor was a Mtn Brook mom, who had just received word about Natalee on her email and told me about it. She said whoever emailed her said that they were searching for a "father and son" in relation to her disappearance...

It was weeks later when I heard speculation on the blogs or MSM that a "father" might have been involved...do I have that timeline right?


WOW Mishy, if that instructor had that on the day Natalee went missing, I wonder who she received the email from.  If it was the morning Natalee went missing, that would have been PRIOR to Beth and Jug arriving and visiting the VDS property.


wasnt that posted on that first tripadvisor post by the wife of one of the chaperones? i could be wrong. does anyone have those posts handy?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: spooky112483 on July 09, 2006, 03:15:47 AM
Quote from: "Sleuth"
Hammer -  I have been looking and still haven't seen anything regarding hitting her head on the pool..


just from my memory i think it was the headmaster or someone from the school told some of the holloway/twitty family early on that what they had heard was that natalee may have fell and hit her head in the pool. this was someone from the school and they told it to jug i believe. this is what i remember about where this came from. it was when jug and his people went to the school to hang up posters and talked with the headmaster and others at the school. sort of an off the cuff comment or rumors that where going around the school. but i believe i remember it being from someone at the school told to jug during the time the went there to hang up posters


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Port Valerie on July 09, 2006, 04:48:40 AM
Quote from: "Easywriter"
Okay, Van Der Stratten wants to protect Joran, so he says Joran confessed?  Then Dompig wants to perpetuate the cover-up by telling the world that the three suspects are “guilty as hell!”

I just don’t get it!  Someone hushed them and it came from high up.

Why?  What about this disappearance would make the knees of a country buckle?


That's the best question. Why did she have to disappear in the first place? And why do so many people participate in the coverup? I guess that's two questions.

Possible answers:

1) The way she died was so horrendous that no one would ever visit the island again if they heard about it.

2) Where she died was a very popular tourist spot and it would lose all its business if people associated the place with a murder.

3) The person who did it was so important that faith in the island hierarchy would be rocked if the people found out.

These answers presume that popular opinion matters and that the criminals are motivated by a desire to keep the island reputation clean and the tourist business intact.

But what if these are just common run-of-the-mill criminals and they're acting on their own arrogance? Then she disappeared because they could make her disappear, and they don't care to account to anybody.

I keep remembering that Aruba has a population of about 80,000 people. That's about the size of Kenosha, Wisconsin, or Kalamazoo, Michigan. Plus, it's all alone out there in the middle of the ocean. Maybe there is an island mentality -- it's fairly easy to get to the height of power in such a small world, and you don't have to account to anybody because nobody from the larger world ever demands that you do.

Therefore it was dumb arrogance, not brilliant strategy, that made them disappear her. Kind of like the mafia. Like that greasy guy they chose as their lawyer.

Just thinking.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: ldstlou on July 09, 2006, 05:06:52 AM
Quote from: "AZLady"
I'm frankly shocked that the Monkeys I've discussed this case with for over a year are saying that there is no way to resolve it, when you just heard with your own ears that there is a way to get answers.  I guess I've been talking with the wrong people for a long time now about this case.  I'm going to bed before I say something I seriously regret.


amen Sweetie...now 4am...just getting back from painting..catching up...so so tired...but still think...if we can get the opposed political group on our side we can find answers!!! No one listened to me before!! But it is a GREAT!!! election campaign!!! to be the heroes that solved the case and got the "Americans" back in Aruba; back in our good graces!! And let's be real...only way any of us would return is if Aruba did a TOTAL FLIP!! in regards to who is in charge of power and law enforcement...I think this truely is the answer!!! Need someone on the "inside" on our side...and it is obvious...they need a stake in the investigation to be on our side!!! So so tired!! But really want your feedback!! and then answers as to how to proceed!!!!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: ldstlou on July 09, 2006, 05:08:21 AM
night all....or rather good morning!! REALLY NEED my beauty sleep after an all nighter painting...but PLEASE consider what I have said!! Hope it made sense!! haha did I mention....so so so tired!!!!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: spooky112483 on July 09, 2006, 05:15:04 AM
aruba can flip flop as much as john kerry they still will never see me there. EVER!!
in fact, it is my mission to make sure as few people set foot on that cess pool as possible!
MISSION ACCEPTED
GIVE US NATALEE
GIVE US JUSTICE FOR NATALEE
and then MAYBE then you can work your way back....doubt it though.
fool me once it's my fault....fool me twice....how many times has aruba tried to fool us? all out of Muligans, aruba. no more tushy kissin'.
tick tock tick tock tick tock......


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Port Valerie on July 09, 2006, 05:54:21 AM
Quote from: "Easywriter"
Okay, Van Der Stratten wants to protect Joran, so he says Joran confessed?  Then Dompig wants to perpetuate the cover-up by telling the world that the three suspects are “guilty as hell!”

I just don’t get it!  Someone hushed them and it came from high up.

Why?  What about this disappearance would make the knees of a country buckle?


Short answer: Nothing.

Nothing about this case would bring Aruba or any country to its knees, not even if the grandmother of the prime minister had committed the crime. Unfortunately, it's a fairly ordinary crime -- girl goes to a bar, gets into a car with strangers, never comes back.

Aruba is not a country in the usual sense -- a nation bordered by other nations with lots of different people coming and going. Rather, it's out there all by itself in the middle of the ocean. Isolated. Like a kingdom, as in fairy tales. Or like a thugdom, as in the mafia.

Aruba is not even very big, and "high up" is not all that high -- about as high as the mayor of Kenosha..

The people involved didn't cover up the crime out of concern for tourism and their marketing strategy. Rather, they covered up the crime out of arrogance -- because they could. Arrogance and habit. Who's gonna stop them?

Following this line of thinking, the next step would not involve invoking the Hague or the UN or the FBI or international law. It would be this: Figure out how to make an ordinary street gang or bunch of mid-level criminals admit to a crime and tell you exactly what they did so you can recover the body.

Send in Mark Fuhrman. He got the truth out of Greenwich, another closed and self-ruled island.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Jacqueline on July 09, 2006, 07:10:46 AM
Quote from: "Sleuth"
Quote from: "Jacqueline"
If possible, please someone recap the show tonight.
Out for the evening.........
TIA



For you, anything...
 :wink:
http://www.scaredmonkeys.net/viewtopic.php?p=10970#10970


Thank you SO much Sleuth! :lol:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: SunFreak2 on July 09, 2006, 07:22:58 AM
"It's a good day......"
Woke up this morning with Perry Como singing this in my head:

Oh it's a good day, for singing this song
and it's a good day, for moving along
Yes it's a good day, how could anything go wrong?
It's a good day from morning till night

Yes it's a good day for shining your shoes
and it's a good day, for loosing the blues
everything to gain and nothing to loose
cause it's a good day from morning till night (you're right!)

I said to the sun, good morning sun
Rise and shine today
You know you got to get going if you're gonna make a showin
And you know you'll got that right away

Cause it's a good day, for paying your bills
And it's a good day, for curing your ills
So take a deep breath throw away all your pills
Cause it's a good day from morning till night

Just this very day i said to the sun: 'Good morning sun'
Rise and shine (why don't you rise and shine)
You know you got to get going if you're gonna make a showin
And you know you've got the right of way

Cause it's a good day, for paying your bills
And it's a good day, for curing your ills
So take a deep breath (ahhh) throw away all your pills
Cause it's a good day from morning till night
say that again
yes it's a good day from morning till night
that's what he said
cause it's a good day from morning till niiiiight!


 :lol:  :lol:  :lol:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Altruist on July 09, 2006, 07:24:23 AM
Quote from: "the big hammer"
THREE DIMENSIONAL TIME -- THINK!

We must account for time dimensions and dates:

1.  WHEN it is reported on wire.

2.  WHEN subject says it.

3.  WHEN subject says it happened.

The critical dimension is point 3 above.  ISA headmaster, eg, says what jvds said during school on the day immeduiately following Natalee's disappearance...

BUT...jvds changes story hours later when confronted by HT Family in driveway: HI drop off lie & alibi.


I am only speculating here but I think because Beth H-T sensed so strongly that NH was at the PVDS property & the story told by the ISA HeadMaster regarding the "story" inferred to him about drowning, the next supposition from there by poster's was that there was a pool on the PVDS property where "something bad could have happened" as right from the beginning it was  obvious that truth was next to impossible from being uttered from that sociopath's mouth, JVDS.

I believe that is where the initial speculation came from regarding the PVDS pool.  We KNOW that there was significant evidence & is the reason for the inhumane treatment of NH as they. VDS's & company, were very much aware that there was NO ACCIDENT & all they are only concerned for their SORRY ASS'S.

I HATE enabler's, it is their insistence for selfishness & cowardice that has contributed to the danger that is present to prey on the innocent.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: San on July 09, 2006, 08:38:29 AM
Quote from: "klaasend"
FBI Joins Search for Missing Ala. Teen

Saturday June 4, 2005 10:31 AM
By MICHAEL NORTON
Associated Press Writer

{edited}

Authorities say there is no evidence that the honors student was abducted, but police commissioner Jan van der Straaten said ``after four or five days you are afraid a crime has been committed.''

Aruban Attorney General Caren Janssen had insisted earlier that local authorities did not need more U.S. help. U.S. State Department spokesman Sean McCormack said Washington was ``making sure that we provide all possible assistance to the family and local authorities.''[/b]

On June 4th KJ says she doesn't need any help from the US.


Van der Straaten was working to dismiss the kidnapping charges very early on in this case.  How would he know that she wasn't kidnapped.  He helped his best friend Paulus that evening dispose of her body (he has seen the evidence which means the body).  JMO.

Then we have Karin Janssen stressing that she doesn't need any help from the US.  She wants to make sure they don't uncover the truth when everything is still fresh in the case because they are still trying to concoct their stories.  Like Art Wood said in last weeks interview the only time he saw the prosecutor and other police officers move is when he was searching the dunes where he found the belt.

Karin Janssen and Van der Straaten have done everything in their power in order to derail this investigation.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: GreatOwl on July 09, 2006, 08:46:41 AM
How Sad!!!!!   I still read every day and remember many of the discussions from over  a year ago.  I see the same things discussed over and over and nothing has changed.  The investigation has reached a "critical stage" how many times now.  Arrests will come in 24 to 28  hours?  The case will be solved in "a few days."

Those who have followed this thread for over a year know that crime on Aruba has either increased one thousand times or it was probably never recorded and reported during past years.  I do question that this island is safer than other vacation locations or even cities in the United States.

Hiding crime is a crime and it is evident that this goes on not only on Aruba, but all over the Carribean.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: sharon on July 09, 2006, 08:56:55 AM
Quote from: "the big hammer"
Before pvds Can Get To Them

Klaas says: "...I believe Sharon was saying and Hammer was agreeing that statements made by any of the suspects or reports of what they said prior to their meeting to make up their stories will hold more truth..."

EXACTLY.

Is ther any corroboration of headmaster's reporting re: "head and rocks at beach"?

AND where does POOL story come from?


Hammer -- thank you.

And Klaas! And of course, the notorious and infamous Granny Toad who keeps saying 'go back to the very first story'. Which would be what we 'heard' from ISA headmaster. We think.

Joran tells a story the very next morning in school (so we are told) that prompted a call to his mother (even though she was still in Holland) to tell her to shut her kid up.

The very same evening we have a different variation (maybe) of the story as told to Jug and his frineds -- that is not documented and NO ONE recollects (excepts the MB group).

I remember when this first 'broke' about swimming and hitting her head on rocks -- Arubagirl on this site said that the story was not believable. That you don't go 'swimming' and oops! hit your head on a rock. She said if this was true -- Natalee had help hitting her head, or else they were somewhere that was way too dangerous for swimming.

I can't take any credit for these thoughts -- I'm just agreeing with Granny Toad who keeps saying -- let's start with the very first 'story'.

Hammer -- parts of this same story came from a retail store owner in the Carolina's? Who was a friend and former neighbor of Paul? And he told her the story??? I think that might be where 'pool' came from -- but that's just from memory.

Good morning monkeys! Justice for Natalee!!!!!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: klaasend on July 09, 2006, 09:09:34 AM
http://www.nationalenquirer.com/crime/63315
Published on: 07/15/2005
HOW NATALEE WAS KILLED

By DON GENTILE

Dutch teenager Joran van der Sloot confessed to his father that he dumped Natalee Holloway's body in shark-infested waters after she accidentally hit her head and drowned in a drug-induced stupor on an Aruban beach.

This stunning new theory from inside the police investigation of the missing teen emerged as her grief-stricken relatives came to terms with the fact that Natalee was not going to be found alive — or possibly not found at all — because the man-eating sharks may have left nothing behind.

"Her family has come to believe that she's not with us anymore. That's just realistic," said Natalee's step-uncle Steve Parten, a Florida minister.

Natalee, from Birmingham, Ala., was last seen around 1 am on May 30 leaving Carlos 'n Charlies, a local nightclub, with 17-year-old Joran and his buddies Satish Kalpoe, 18, and his brother Deepak, 21. It was the last night of Natalee's high school graduation trip with her classmates.

For the first time, police are investigating information from several sources that a panic-stricken Joran confessed to his father Paulus that Natalee died accidentally and that he fed her body to the sharks.

Two of those sources are Jim Dooley, a South Carolina job recruiter for the health care industry, and his wife, Bella.

In an exclusive interview, the Dooleys said they contacted the FBI after learning of Joran's confession to his dad during a shopping trip to a clothing store in Charlotte, N.C. The date was June 11, just a few days after Aruba police had arrested Joran and the Kalpoe brothers as "persons of interest" in the case.


Dooley said the clerk at the clothing store told him that she and her husband are very good friends with Joran's dad, Paulus van der Sloot, and his wife, Anita. Her own son had attended school with Joran on the island and was a close pal.

The clerk told Dooley: "Joran told his father that he and Natalee had all been drinking and taking drugs at the nightclub. The father specifically mentioned they took Ecstasy. Joran told his father that when they left the club, they went to a beach on the island. Natalee was very ill and threw up several times.

"Then she fell and hit her head on something. Joran checked her and realized she was dead.

"Joran and others discussed an appropriate place to dump Natalee's body, a specific place where someone would disappear forever... a spot on the island where the waters are shark-infested."

Arubans know the shark-feeding spot very well and directed a National Enquirer reporter to its location on the rugged north coast of the island, where the ocean pounds the rocks and few people live.

The water there is deep and murky and sits beneath a high cliff, far away from the beautiful beaches and posh hotel casinos on the island's southern side.

A meatpacking plant once occupied the site. Workers there would discard meat cuttings into the ocean. The sharks would quickly gather and go into a feeding frenzy. To this day, dead animals are dumped into the waters at the shark site for the sake of tourism.

The clerk continued: "Paulus van der Sloot is very worried. This was an accidental death but his son is likely to end up going to jail because it looks like he was covering up a murder.

"But Paulus admitted telling his son that if a body wasn't found, there could be a chance he'd get out of jail."

According to another source close to the case, Robert Werner, headmaster of the International School of Aruba, where Joran attended classes, also said that Paulus van der Sloot admitted to him his son confessed that Natalee died accidentally in a fall on a beach.

The source revealed: "Paulus told the headmaster that Joran and Natalee had been taking drugs and decided to go for a swim. As they played in and around the water, Natalee fell, hit her head on a rock and drowned. In a drug and alcohol-induced panic, Joran felt he had no other choice but to dispose of Natalee's body in the sea."

Paulus van der Sloot was arrested himself on June 23, a week after the Dooleys reported their conversation with the clerk to the FBI. He was later released but he could be rearrested, said Aruban authorities. He did admit talking to his son about Natalee's disappearance, saying he advised him in general terms that without a body there may be no way to prove a crime was committed.

The Kalpoe brothers were also released. But they, too, could be rearrested, Aruban authorities said. At the time of going to press, Joran remained behind bars. His family maintains his innocence.


NO POOL - HIT HER HEAD


GOODMORNING ALL!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Leslie on July 09, 2006, 09:10:11 AM
Rosa Palmer
http://tinyurl.com/qbmrx


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: San on July 09, 2006, 09:21:29 AM
Quote from: "Leslie"
Rosa Palmer
http://tinyurl.com/qbmrx


Palmer said she believes officials at the International School of Aruba, which her son attended with Joran van der Sloot, know more than they have said.

Why would she feel the need to bring up the head master.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: San on July 09, 2006, 09:22:35 AM
GOOD MORNING EVERYONE.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: San on July 09, 2006, 09:25:44 AM
OK I'm going back to bed because I'm tired.  You guys keep me up to late. :wink:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: sharon on July 09, 2006, 09:30:22 AM
Quote from: "klaasend"
http://www.nationalenquirer.com/crime/63315
Published on: 07/15/2005
HOW NATALEE WAS KILLED

NO POOL - HIT HER HEAD

GOODMORNING ALL!


Also "hit her head on something" NO ROCKS either.

Well -- I was close. I got the retail store and the word Carolina right :)  The memory is not what it used to be when I was younger :wink:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Leslie on July 09, 2006, 09:50:33 AM
I would love to know whose male voice is heard on the 3 AM phone call from Natalee.  If the entire conversation is Natalee saying "I don't know these people" and a man's voice asking " Are you calling home?" and then the call is terminated; THAT man is the last known person to be with Natalee before her disappearance.  Can they not determine who is talking and arrest him for kidnapping?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: klaasend on July 09, 2006, 09:55:37 AM
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e82/klaasend2/aglorenzorumor.gif)


June 18th a person in Aruba is saying some of Natalee's items are found at Lorenzo's house.  The question is, is this part of the original coverup?  Try to suggest that Natalee was still alive and being held?  Or is there truth that Natalee may have been at Lorenzo's house?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Leslie on July 09, 2006, 09:59:04 AM
The ISA Headmaster Robert Werner
http://www.isaruba.com/
Go to Academics
Choose Faculty and Staff
Werner's Favorite Quotation:  "May the "Great Spirit" grant me the strength to change the things that need to be changed, accept the things that cannot be changed, and have the wisdom to know the difference. "

I guess he doesn't have strength or wisdom!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Buckeye on July 09, 2006, 10:04:23 AM
Hammer

Part of hitting head swimming.  I don't recall the earliest reports mentioning rocks or beach...only hitting head swimming.  

On 8-1 JUG stated to that on 6-1 several of JUG’s friends took some of the “KIDNAPPED” posters to Prime Suspect J. SLOOT’s “International School.” The friends had written on the NATALEE “missing” posters something like “ask Joran van der Sloot about Natalee’s whereabouts.” While the friends were still at the school, the school’s headmaster, ROBERT WERNER, came out and asked them what they were doing, and if JUG‘s friends were with the F.B.I. The friends told WERNER, who invited the friends into his school office. WERNER told JUG’s friends that the day before (5-31), the headmaster had spoken directly to Prime Suspect J. SLOOT and Current Suspect P. SLOOT in the headmaster’s office and that the headmaster told Prime Suspect J. SLOOT, “Joran, you need to come clean on what happened.” JUG stated that WERNER told his friends that Prime Suspect J. SLOOT claims he and NATALEE engaged in some form of sex, and, he also said that NATALEE may have hit her head while swimming that night. The headmaster also told the friends that Prime Suspect J. SLOOT and Current Suspect P. SLOOT claimed WERNER that the reason that Current Suspect D. KALPOE’s car could not be seen in the “Holiday Inn” security camera video tapes around 2:00 AM is that “there was a break in the tape.”

http://tinyurl.com/bcehg


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Leslie on July 09, 2006, 10:05:03 AM
Why is Lorenzo van Rijn being protected more than anyone else in this case?  Over a year after the disappearance, we have no clear picture of him and no real information but he was brought in for questioning and is discussed in Shango/Simian/Checkme postings.  What kind of power /influence does this drug dealer  have?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: klaasend on July 09, 2006, 10:07:48 AM
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e82/klaasend2/Trip%20Advisor/tripadvisor3.jpg)


BLOOD IN CAR - From TripAdvisor forum


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: terryd270 on July 09, 2006, 10:11:39 AM
Quote from: "klaasend"
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e82/klaasend2/Trip%20Advisor/tripadvisor3.jpg)


BLOOD IN CAR - From TripAdvisor forum


This statements says it was Joran's car that was tested and not Deepak's car..  Who's car was tested?  Too many silver cars on that island, and too many PIMPS..


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: klaasend on July 09, 2006, 10:14:33 AM
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e82/klaasend2/Trip%20Advisor/tripadvisorarubiangirl7.jpg)

So what time did they actually leave CnC?  The Diamonds International camera would have a time stamp on it.  They know what time.  Was it closer to 1 or 1:30?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: klaasend on July 09, 2006, 10:18:02 AM
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e82/klaasend2/Trip%20Advisor/tripadvisorarubiangirl9.jpg)

The roads that night were busier because of the Soul Beach Festival.  They had to take the route going towards the VDS residence.  They could have crossed back over to the hotel area I suppose but that would have taken more time as well.  How does the La Cabana and the porn video fit?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Leslie on July 09, 2006, 10:21:12 AM
Re: Blood in the car - was Natalee on her period?  This is an important question yet nobody had discussed it.  Many men do not want to have sex with a woman during that time of the month and some religions forbid it. " Knocking boots" means sexual intercourse.
Hindu Religion views on sex:
Religiously speaking, Hindus begin life at the Brahmacharya or "celibate student" stage, in which they are directed to celibately advance themselves educationally and spiritually to prepare themselves for a life of furthering their dharma (religious duties) and karma (right earthly actions); only once they reach the Grihastya or "householder" stage can they seek kama (physical pleasure) and artha (worldly achievement, material prosperity). To seek physical pleasure before the householder stage would violate the spiritual Hindu's prescribed life path.
Most culturally-sensitive Hindus adhere to sexual standards akin to Victorian morality, with both pre-marital and extra-marital sex perceived to be gravely immoral and shameful. In the religion's teachings, the prohibition against sex outside of marriage is largely related to the prescribed life stages Hindus are bound to follow if they are to attain moksha (the same as the Buddhist concept of nirvana, or enlightenment of the soul).


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Leslie on July 09, 2006, 10:29:53 AM
Soul Beach concert seemed to end at 11:30 Sunday night.  Many people
would have had to go to work or school the next day, so I do not see how the roads could have been that busy at 1 AM Monday morning.    
In the Dutch TV film clip of the drive past Diamonds International we do not see any other car than Deepak's.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Houdini on July 09, 2006, 10:41:48 AM
You know we have hashed and rehashed the events or the "perceived" events from C&C's on.  But if a minute by minute timeline of Natalee's whereabouts from the moment she landed on the island had been done, the perpetrators would be in jail now.

That's how a missing persons, or a homicide investigation is done.  You speak for the victim, because she is not there to speak for herself.  The answer to what happened to Natalee can be found in the time leading up to C&C's.
With all the cop shows on TV, First 48, Without A Trace, CSI, ALL the Law & Orders........ that's what they do.  What does ALE watch?  Gilligan's Island?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: San on July 09, 2006, 10:44:26 AM
Quote from: "Leslie"
I would love to know whose male voice is heard on the 3 AM phone call from Natalee.  If the entire conversation is Natalee saying "I don't know these people" and a man's voice asking " Are you calling home?" and then the call is terminated; THAT man is the last known person to be with Natalee before her disappearance.  Can they not determine who is talking and arrest him for kidnapping?

My question is are those the only words spoken or could there be more.  Because if it was me and they found out I made a call I would be screaming my head off.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Easywriter on July 09, 2006, 10:50:36 AM
Good Morning!

I have always felt that the crime was very simple.  A case of rape and rage by the perpetrators.  The cover-up is what becomes mysterious.  Who on that island has that kind of power and why would they risk all for a few punk kids?

Something is missing here and I think we are looking past it due to all the BS we have heard out of Aruba.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Buckeye on July 09, 2006, 10:53:07 AM
Remember this one....

Anonymous said...
Natalee died at the VDS house, but not in Joran's room. She died in the pool shed out back of the house where PVDS put her after Joran beat her up while trying to have sex with her against her will.
Nalalee went of with Joran willingly but did not want to have sex after Joran got started. This happened not in the presense of Deepak or Satish. The brothers had left Joran on the beach with Natalee after Natalee escaped from the car and ran. Joran went after her. It was not the beach near the Marriot, but one on the southern end of the island where they went to look at the stars that can only be seen from the southern hemisphere, most significantly The Southern Cross.
Joran called his dad when he realized he'd hurt Natalee. They took her back to the VDS house. Paulus sent Joran to bed and he put her in the pool shed until he figured out how to save his son from this mess. She died there of her injuries, most significantly the one to her head. She choked to death on vomit from her head injury the next day because she had tape on her mouth and was tied up.

PVDS hid the body in a grave under that dog of Joran's that Joran killed a few days before. There are lots of bodies buried under dogs on that island, bodies from deaths that occured at Rave parties from drug reactions.

http://tinyurl.com/g8zuh


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: San on July 09, 2006, 10:56:27 AM
Quote from: "klaasend"
June 18th a person in Aruba is saying some of Natalee's items are found at Lorenzo's house.  The question is, is this part of the original coverup?  Try to suggest that Natalee was still alive and being held?  Or is there truth that Natalee may have been at Lorenzo's house?

I believe it was part of the original coverup.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: klaasend on July 09, 2006, 10:56:52 AM
Quote from: "Buckeye"
Remember this one....

Anonymous said...
Natalee died at the VDS house, but not in Joran's room. She died in the pool shed out back of the house where PVDS put her after Joran beat her up while trying to have sex with her against her will.
Nalalee went of with Joran willingly but did not want to have sex after Joran got started. This happened not in the presense of Deepak or Satish. The brothers had left Joran on the beach with Natalee after Natalee escaped from the car and ran. Joran went after her. It was not the beach near the Marriot, but one on the southern end of the island where they went to look at the stars that can only be seen from the southern hemisphere, most significantly The Southern Cross.
Joran called his dad when he realized he'd hurt Natalee. They took her back to the VDS house. Paulus sent Joran to bed and he put her in the pool shed until he figured out how to save his son from this mess. She died there of her injuries, most significantly the one to her head. She choked to death on vomit from her head injury the next day because she had tape on her mouth and was tied up.

PVDS hid the body in a grave under that dog of Joran's that Joran killed a few days before. There are lots of bodies buried under dogs on that island, bodies from deaths that occured at Rave parties from drug reactions.

http://tinyurl.com/g8zuh


And who's website did this come from??

The view from Aruba
What you see pictured is the view from Aruba. It  is spectacular. At the southern tip of the island,  you can view many magnificent gems of the southern Milky Way , an amazingly clear view of the Southern Cross  (Crux), as shown, and the “False Cross,  and much more.

Other dazzling southern sky treasures you can see when visiting Aruba are Canopus, the Tarantula Nebula, the incredible Eta Carina Nebulaand neighboring star cluster NGC 3532, the Jewel Box cluster, the “Southern Pleiades” along with many other spectacular open clusters strewn along the Milky Way, the huge globular cluster Omega Centauri,  the giant galaxy Centaurus A” and Apha and Beta Centauri.   Aruba provides an amazing view of Crux (the Southern Cross), plus one of the best "star gazes" anywhere on the planet.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Sleuth on July 09, 2006, 10:57:29 AM
Quote from: "ldstlou"
Quote from: "AZLady"
I'm frankly shocked that the Monkeys I've discussed this case with for over a year are saying that there is no way to resolve it, when you just heard with your own ears that there is a way to get answers.  I guess I've been talking with the wrong people for a long time now about this case.  I'm going to bed before I say something I seriously regret.


amen Sweetie...now 4am...just getting back from painting..catching up...so so tired...but still think...if we can get the opposed political group on our side we can find answers!!! No one listened to me before!! But it is a GREAT!!! election campaign!!! to be the heroes that solved the case and got the "Americans" back in Aruba; back in our good graces!! And let's be real...only way any of us would return is if Aruba did a TOTAL FLIP!! in regards to who is in charge of power and law enforcement...I think this truely is the answer!!! Need someone on the "inside" on our side...and it is obvious...they need a stake in the investigation to be on our side!!! So so tired!! But really want your feedback!! and then answers as to how to proceed!!!!


That opposing political party could be Jossy.  Wouldn't that be sweet.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Houdini on July 09, 2006, 10:58:24 AM
Buckeye wrote:
Quote
Remember this one....

Anonymous said...
Natalee died at the VDS house, but not in Joran's room. She died in the pool shed out back of the house where PVDS put her after Joran beat her up while trying to have sex with her against her will.
Nalalee went of with Joran willingly but did not want to have sex after Joran got started. This happened not in the presense of Deepak or Satish. The brothers had left Joran on the beach with Natalee after Natalee escaped from the car and ran. Joran went after her. It was not the beach near the Marriot, but one on the southern end of the island where they went to look at the stars that can only be seen from the southern hemisphere, most significantly The Southern Cross.
Joran called his dad when he realized he'd hurt Natalee. They took her back to the VDS house. Paulus sent Joran to bed and he put her in the pool shed until he figured out how to save his son from this mess. She died there of her injuries, most significantly the one to her head. She choked to death on vomit from her head injury the next day because she had tape on her mouth and was tied up.

PVDS hid the body in a grave under that dog of Joran's that Joran killed a few days before. There are lots of bodies buried under dogs on that island, bodies from deaths that occured at Rave parties from drug reactions.


Well Dang Buckeye,  this scenario would explain ALOT of things.  All except the MASSIVE coverup, those involved and most importantly.........the reason for a cover up in the first place.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: klaasend on July 09, 2006, 10:59:03 AM
Just a note - the southern tip of the island would have been harder to reach that night.  The Soul Beach Festival was held that night south of CnC, the roads would have been more crowded there.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Buckeye on July 09, 2006, 10:59:55 AM
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "Buckeye"
Remember this one....

Anonymous said...
Natalee died at the VDS house, but not in Joran's room. She died in the pool shed out back of the house where PVDS put her after Joran beat her up while trying to have sex with her against her will.
Nalalee went of with Joran willingly but did not want to have sex after Joran got started. This happened not in the presense of Deepak or Satish. The brothers had left Joran on the beach with Natalee after Natalee escaped from the car and ran. Joran went after her. It was not the beach near the Marriot, but one on the southern end of the island where they went to look at the stars that can only be seen from the southern hemisphere, most significantly The Southern Cross.
Joran called his dad when he realized he'd hurt Natalee. They took her back to the VDS house. Paulus sent Joran to bed and he put her in the pool shed until he figured out how to save his son from this mess. She died there of her injuries, most significantly the one to her head. She choked to death on vomit from her head injury the next day because she had tape on her mouth and was tied up.

PVDS hid the body in a grave under that dog of Joran's that Joran killed a few days before. There are lots of bodies buried under dogs on that island, bodies from deaths that occured at Rave parties from drug reactions.

http://tinyurl.com/g8zuh


And who's website did this come from??

The view from Aruba
What you see pictured is the view from Aruba. It  is spectacular. At the southern tip of the island,  you can view many magnificent gems of the southern Milky Way , an amazingly clear view of the Southern Cross  (Crux), as shown, and the “False Cross,  and much more.

Other dazzling southern sky treasures you can see when visiting Aruba are Canopus, the Tarantula Nebula, the incredible Eta Carina Nebulaand neighboring star cluster NGC 3532, the Jewel Box cluster, the “Southern Pleiades” along with many other spectacular open clusters strewn along the Milky Way, the huge globular cluster Omega Centauri,  the giant galaxy Centaurus A” and Apha and Beta Centauri.   Aruba provides an amazing view of Crux (the Southern Cross), plus one of the best "star gazes" anywhere on the planet.


Well, I don't know...don't know if I've ever seen it.  But Natalee was a smart girl, maybe she would know about this and want to see the sky since she hadn't gotten to see it yet on the trip.  Could be a reason for accepting the ride, IF she did go willingly..


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: klaasend on July 09, 2006, 11:00:55 AM
Buckeye - it's from the front page of SCRUX


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: whytegirl on July 09, 2006, 11:02:57 AM
Buckeye HOLY COW!  :shock:

I've been here for months and I don't remember reading that one.

Probably a similar one but not with so much detail.

Good morning everybody!  Still on the downy dumps about Leyla... :cry:   went to the Humane Society to see if they had kittens and I found the most beautiful cat, looks just like one I had a year or so ago that was ran over by a car called Jewel.  They won't hold the cat for me till Tuesday because I can't find the rabies paper for KC!!!!! :evil:  :twisted:  :evil:  :twisted:  :evil:  :twisted:

I faxed them EIGHT PAGES of vet documentation and evidence that I do take good care of my cats, even Leyla's rabies updated shot ppwk....they said NO> :evil:  The shelter does not open till Monday so I have till basically today to get that cat and they won't hold it for me or let me pay, anything! :evil:

I have been praying hard that this kitten comes into my life.  If he does I will take pics and post them here you will be very impressed.  Some Persian in him.  Orange and white.  Mr. Whyte said he will get that cat for me today.  Been depressed and with a two-day headache.  Then seeing the crate where Leyla was is not making me feel any better.

To top it off, there is at the shelter a gray kitten, 3 mos., female that just looks like Leyla. :cry:  :cry:   I wish I could get both, I would feel complete....up to Mr. Whyte and the shelter's "COMPASSION".


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Buckeye on July 09, 2006, 11:04:14 AM
Quote from: "klaasend"
Just a note - the southern tip of the island would have been harder to reach that night.  The Soul Beach Festival was held that night south of CnC, the roads would have been more crowded there.


Going towards the beach or returning towards town??

I just think it was an odd posting, but maybe it was placed to throw us off from what we were thinking at the time...


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: whytegirl on July 09, 2006, 11:05:47 AM
Quote from: "Sleuth"
Quote from: "ldstlou"
Quote from: "AZLady"
I'm frankly shocked that the Monkeys I've discussed this case with for over a year are saying that there is no way to resolve it, when you just heard with your own ears that there is a way to get answers.  I guess I've been talking with the wrong people for a long time now about this case.  I'm going to bed before I say something I seriously regret.


amen Sweetie...now 4am...just getting back from painting..catching up...so so tired...but still think...if we can get the opposed political group on our side we can find answers!!! No one listened to me before!! But it is a GREAT!!! election campaign!!! to be the heroes that solved the case and got the "Americans" back in Aruba; back in our good graces!! And let's be real...only way any of us would return is if Aruba did a TOTAL FLIP!! in regards to who is in charge of power and law enforcement...I think this truely is the answer!!! Need someone on the "inside" on our side...and it is obvious...they need a stake in the investigation to be on our side!!! So so tired!! But really want your feedback!! and then answers as to how to proceed!!!!


That opposing political party could be Jossy.  Wouldn't that be sweet.


I would then suggest RED to post or write more information about the opposing political party and what is their agenda and platform for Aruba.  And with Red's two cents of course.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Buckeye on July 09, 2006, 11:08:20 AM
Quote from: "klaasend"
Buckeye - it's from the front page of SCRUX


Well now, that is a coincidense isn't it??  so, maybe the Anonymous posting was to throw us off.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: San on July 09, 2006, 11:11:44 AM
Quote from: "Buckeye"
Remember this one....

Anonymous said...
Natalee died at the VDS house, but not in Joran's room. She died in the pool shed out back of the house where PVDS put her after Joran beat her up while trying to have sex with her against her will.
Nalalee went of with Joran willingly but did not want to have sex after Joran got started. This happened not in the presense of Deepak or Satish. The brothers had left Joran on the beach with Natalee after Natalee escaped from the car and ran. Joran went after her. It was not the beach near the Marriot, but one on the southern end of the island where they went to look at the stars that can only be seen from the southern hemisphere, most significantly The Southern Cross.
Joran called his dad when he realized he'd hurt Natalee. They took her back to the VDS house. Paulus sent Joran to bed and he put her in the pool shed until he figured out how to save his son from this mess. She died there of her injuries, most significantly the one to her head. She choked to death on vomit from her head injury the next day because she had tape on her mouth and was tied up.

PVDS hid the body in a grave under that dog of Joran's that Joran killed a few days before. There are lots of bodies buried under dogs on that island, bodies from deaths that occured at Rave parties from drug reactions.

http://tinyurl.com/g8zuh

I remember this post and it always disturbed me.  Notice that the only two areas that were searched by the police in the VDS residence were Joran's room and the shed.

Were the police really searching those two spots to collect any forensic evidence to dispose of it.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: BTgirl on July 09, 2006, 11:12:22 AM
Quote from: "Buckeye"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Buckeye - it's from the front page of SCRUX


Well now, that is a coincidense isn't it??  so, maybe the Anonymous posting was to throw us off.


Good morning monkeys.

I've read the post by Anonymous several times over the past few months, but it doesn't ring true to me somehow.

While I'm willing to believe that PVDS is a slimy dirty old man, I can't see him binding and gagging Natalee and hiding her in the pool house. That one sounds like a badly written story to me.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Buckeye on July 09, 2006, 11:14:08 AM
Klaas

I had been searching catched pages with pool, head plus other things for Hammer, trying to figure out when the VDS "pool" story came up. It has been quite interesting rereading OLD postings.  I was trying to figure out which ones might have been posted by Arubans.  I keep forgetting that there were a lot of people paid to post crap.  Boy, have I learned a lot in the last year...not about Natalee...but general overall info.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: klaasend on July 09, 2006, 11:17:54 AM
Quote from: "Buckeye"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Just a note - the southern tip of the island would have been harder to reach that night.  The Soul Beach Festival was held that night south of CnC, the roads would have been more crowded there.


Going towards the beach or returning towards town??

I just think it was an odd posting, but maybe it was placed to throw us off from what we were thinking at the time...


(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e82/klaasend2/SoulBeach2005.jpg)


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Buckeye on July 09, 2006, 11:19:37 AM
Question

Wasn't there something about Paulus saying he picked "them" up at 4am??

Maybe it was from the south of town.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: klaasend on July 09, 2006, 11:24:28 AM
My OPINION is that they stopped by the VDS residence then headed towards the lighthouse that night.  

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e82/klaasend2/OneStraightLine.jpg)


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Buckeye on July 09, 2006, 11:26:57 AM
Quote from: "klaasend"
My OPINION is that they stopped by the VDS residence then headed towards the lighthouse that night.  




My money would always go with you...you think the VDS house first, then lighthouse....not lighthouse then VDS house??


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: ldstlou on July 09, 2006, 11:28:29 AM
Quote from: "whytegirl"
Quote from: "Sleuth"
Quote from: "ldstlou"
Quote from: "AZLady"
I'm frankly shocked that the Monkeys I've discussed this case with for over a year are saying that there is no way to resolve it, when you just heard with your own ears that there is a way to get answers.  I guess I've been talking with the wrong people for a long time now about this case.  I'm going to bed before I say something I seriously regret.


amen Sweetie...now 4am...just getting back from painting..catching up...so so tired...but still think...if we can get the opposed political group on our side we can find answers!!! No one listened to me before!! But it is a GREAT!!! election campaign!!! to be the heroes that solved the case and got the "Americans" back in Aruba; back in our good graces!! And let's be real...only way any of us would return is if Aruba did a TOTAL FLIP!! in regards to who is in charge of power and law enforcement...I think this truely is the answer!!! Need someone on the "inside" on our side...and it is obvious...they need a stake in the investigation to be on our side!!! So so tired!! But really want your feedback!! and then answers as to how to proceed!!!!


That opposing political party could be Jossy.  Wouldn't that be sweet.


I would then suggest RED to post or write more information about the opposing political party and what is their agenda and platform for Aruba.  And with Red's two cents of course.


good morning again!! I am back up!! AAAHH! still tired haha
I think that is a great idea!!


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: klaasend on July 09, 2006, 11:28:30 AM
Quote from: "Buckeye"
Quote from: "klaasend"
My OPINION is that they stopped by the VDS residence then headed towards the lighthouse that night.  




My money would always go with you...you think the VDS house first, then lighthouse....not lighthouse then VDS house??


VDS home first then maybe the Gottenbos home??  How does Sander figure in?  How is it he coincidentally lost his cellphone at school on May 30th?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Leslie on July 09, 2006, 11:29:33 AM
Is Scrux a short form of Southern Cross = S(Crux)?

Anonymous said...

Natalee died at the VDS house, but not in Joran's room. She died in the pool shed out back of the house where PVDS put her after Joran beat her up while trying to have sex with her against her will.
Joran's "room" is the pool shed.
Nalalee went of with Joran willingly but did not want to have sex after Joran got started. This happened not in the presense of Deepak or Satish. The brothers had left Joran on the beach with Natalee after Natalee escaped from the car and ran. Joran went after her. It was not the beach near the Marriot, but one on the southern end of the island where they went to look at the stars that can only be seen from the southern hemisphere, most significantly The Southern Cross.
It was overcast that night.
Joran called his dad when he realized he'd hurt Natalee. They took her back to the VDS house. Paulus sent Joran to bed and he put her in the pool shed until he figured out how to save his son from this mess. She died there of her injuries, most significantly the one to her head. She choked to death on vomit from her head injury the next day because she had tape on her mouth and was tied up.
So, when did she make the phone call with the monkey sound in the background?
PVDS hid the body in a grave under that dog of Joran's that Joran killed a few days before.
So, Joran killed his dog, while his parent's were away, and buried it ? Is that why the yard was "torn up"?
There are lots of bodies buried under dogs on that island, bodies from deaths that occured at Rave parties from drug reactions.
S.E.A. Fly n’ Dive reported pulling out several sacks of debris from under the sea around the De Palm Island Area and the Hash House Harriers filled eight pick up trucks with trash from around Seroe Colorado and the Pet Cemetery in the San Nicolas Area.



Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Sleuth on July 09, 2006, 11:29:45 AM
Quote from: "klaasend"
Just a note - the southern tip of the island would have been harder to reach that night.  The Soul Beach Festival was held that night south of CnC, the roads would have been more crowded there.


Sorry, but I don't think so. I have to agree with Leslie on this one.  

What we know so far is that Joran and K2 did not even arrive at CnC until the Soul Beach Festival ended.  That might mean slightly more traffic when leaving, but not significantly more.  And to turn right onto LG Smith and head towards the southern tip would have been faster than trying to head north.

I've gone from downtown O'Stadt to San Nicolas (southern side) late on a Saturday night during prime season and it took about  1/2 hour (I think I have timestamps on pictures where I could get the exact times).  

I don't see a big difference in time to get to the southern beach or to Arashi area on that Sunday night..


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: ldstlou on July 09, 2006, 11:31:33 AM
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "Buckeye"
Quote from: "klaasend"
My OPINION is that they stopped by the VDS residence then headed towards the lighthouse that night.  




My money would always go with you...you think the VDS house first, then lighthouse....not lighthouse then VDS house??


VDS home first then maybe the Gottenbos home??  How does Sander figure in?  How is it he coincidentally lost his cellphone at school on May 30th?


still catching up...but isn't the reason we placed Natalee at Joran's house at 3am because of the monkey sounds in the background of her phone call?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: klaasend on July 09, 2006, 11:33:31 AM
Quote from: "Sleuth"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Just a note - the southern tip of the island would have been harder to reach that night.  The Soul Beach Festival was held that night south of CnC, the roads would have been more crowded there.


Sorry, but I don't think so. I have to agree with Leslie on this one.  

What we know so far is that Joran and K2 did not even arrive at CnC until the Soul Beach Festival ended.  That might mean slightly more traffic when leaving, but not significantly more.  And to turn right onto LG Smith and head towards the southern tip would have been faster than trying to head north.

I've gone from downtown O'Stadt to San Nicolas (southern side) late on a Saturday night during prime season and it took about  1/2 hour (I think I have timestamps on pictures where I could get the exact times).  

I don't see a big difference in time to get to the southern beach or to Arashi area on that Sunday night..

You may be right Sleuth, I'm just thinking that the last night of the Soul Beach Festival did NOT have an after hours party.  The way they like to party in Aruba I'd think people would still be out and about, especially on LG Smith between CnC and the airport.  In any case, I don't believe they went that way but that's my opinion only.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: ldstlou on July 09, 2006, 11:35:15 AM
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "Buckeye"
Quote from: "klaasend"
My OPINION is that they stopped by the VDS residence then headed towards the lighthouse that night.  




My money would always go with you...you think the VDS house first, then lighthouse....not lighthouse then VDS house??


VDS home first then maybe the Gottenbos home??  How does Sander figure in?  How is it he coincidentally lost his cellphone at school on May 30th?


could the cell phobe be the one Natalee made the call from and it was damaged when they tried to get it from her?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Sleuth on July 09, 2006, 11:36:25 AM
Quote from: "Buckeye"
Klaas

I had been searching catched pages with pool, head plus other things for Hammer, trying to figure out when the VDS "pool" story came up. It has been quite interesting rereading OLD postings.  I was trying to figure out which ones might have been posted by Arubans.  I keep forgetting that there were a lot of people paid to post crap.  Boy, have I learned a lot in the last year...not about Natalee...but general overall info.


LOL - I spent about two hours last night doing the same type of search and came up with a lot of the same stuff that was posted this morning, but I just do not see any trustworthy source or article that says she hit hear head in the pool.

It was a big trip down memory lane for me as well and all we've been though together.  I had totally forgotten one theory of Natalee hitting her head on the pier as she fell off it (by Marriott area).


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: klaasend on July 09, 2006, 11:36:57 AM
Quote from: "Sleuth"
Quote from: "Buckeye"
Klaas

I had been searching catched pages with pool, head plus other things for Hammer, trying to figure out when the VDS "pool" story came up. It has been quite interesting rereading OLD postings.  I was trying to figure out which ones might have been posted by Arubans.  I keep forgetting that there were a lot of people paid to post crap.  Boy, have I learned a lot in the last year...not about Natalee...but general overall info.


LOL - I spent about two hours last night doing the same type of search and came up with a lot of the same stuff that was posted this morning, but I just do not see any trustworthy source or article that says she hit hear head in the pool.

It was a big trip down memory lane for me as well and all we've been though together.  I had totally forgotten one theory of Natalee hitting her head on the pier as she fell off it (by Marriott area).


Make that 3 of us, lol  :lol:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Buckeye on July 09, 2006, 11:37:53 AM
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "Buckeye"
Quote from: "klaasend"
My OPINION is that they stopped by the VDS residence then headed towards the lighthouse that night.  




My money would always go with you...you think the VDS house first, then lighthouse....not lighthouse then VDS house??


VDS home first then maybe the Gottenbos home??  How does Sander figure in?  How is it he coincidentally lost his cellphone at school on May 30th?


or..VDS then "the rocks" then Gottenbos...cell call


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: klaasend on July 09, 2006, 11:39:44 AM
Quote from: "Buckeye"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "Buckeye"
Quote from: "klaasend"
My OPINION is that they stopped by the VDS residence then headed towards the lighthouse that night.  




My money would always go with you...you think the VDS house first, then lighthouse....not lighthouse then VDS house??


VDS home first then maybe the Gottenbos home??  How does Sander figure in?  How is it he coincidentally lost his cellphone at school on May 30th?


or..VDS then "the rocks" then Gottenbos...cell call


They would pass the Gottenbos home to get to the rocks but very possible  that they came back to the Gottenbos to use their boat.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Buckeye on July 09, 2006, 11:44:34 AM
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "Sleuth"
Quote from: "Buckeye"
Klaas

I had been searching catched pages with pool, head plus other things for Hammer, trying to figure out when the VDS "pool" story came up. It has been quite interesting rereading OLD postings.  I was trying to figure out which ones might have been posted by Arubans.  I keep forgetting that there were a lot of people paid to post crap.  Boy, have I learned a lot in the last year...not about Natalee...but general overall info.


LOL - I spent about two hours last night doing the same type of search and came up with a lot of the same stuff that was posted this morning, but I just do not see any trustworthy source or article that says she hit hear head in the pool.

It was a big trip down memory lane for me as well and all we've been though together.  I had totally forgotten one theory of Natalee hitting her head on the pier as she fell off it (by Marriott area).


Make that 3 of us, lol  :lol:


I certainly think Hammer owes us a research stipend...or Klaas, you can have my share and just add it to your itemized monthly business expense for Red. :wink:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: ldstlou on July 09, 2006, 11:44:54 AM
Quote from: "Buckeye"
Hammer

Part of hitting head swimming.  I don't recall the earliest reports mentioning rocks or beach...only hitting head swimming.  

On 8-1 JUG stated to that on 6-1 several of JUG’s friends took some of the “KIDNAPPED” posters to Prime Suspect J. SLOOT’s “International School.” The friends had written on the NATALEE “missing” posters something like “ask Joran van der Sloot about Natalee’s whereabouts.” While the friends were still at the school, the school’s headmaster, ROBERT WERNER, came out and asked them what they were doing, and if JUG‘s friends were with the F.B.I. The friends told WERNER, who invited the friends into his school office. WERNER told JUG’s friends that the day before (5-31), the headmaster had spoken directly to Prime Suspect J. SLOOT and Current Suspect P. SLOOT in the headmaster’s office and that the headmaster told Prime Suspect J. SLOOT, “Joran, you need to come clean on what happened.” JUG stated that WERNER told his friends that Prime Suspect J. SLOOT claims he and NATALEE engaged in some form of sex, and, he also said that NATALEE may have hit her head while swimming that night. The headmaster also told the friends that Prime Suspect J. SLOOT and Current Suspect P. SLOOT claimed WERNER that the reason that Current Suspect D. KALPOE’s car could not be seen in the “Holiday Inn” security camera video tapes around 2:00 AM is that “there was a break in the tape.”

http://tinyurl.com/bcehg


if there is "some" truth in every story..could she have hit her head on Joran's pool? In order to hear monkey screech would they have had to have been outside? So she hits her head while swimming...but not at beach!! Where are you going to hit your head at a beach?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: klaasend on July 09, 2006, 11:45:26 AM
Joran Van Der Sloot
Deepak Kalpoe
Satish Kalpoe
Freddy Arambatzis
Koen Gottenbos
Sander Gottenbos

Where are Joran's best friends for life?

Jaime Carrasquilla
Freddy Arambatzis


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Leslie on July 09, 2006, 11:46:01 AM
A lot of these events are for the tourists who can walk from the hotels.  I cannot see Aruba as being overrun with cars even though there seems to be a serious car accident daily as reported in the newspapers.  It is illegal to drive without wearing a seatbelt but driving while drunk is not a crime.
The newspapers in Aruba do not have their priorities in order-Why investigate the death of a 7 year old child of illegal workers found buried behind some rocks or the nude body of a female found in an advanced state of putrefaction and dumped down a chasm or a corpse found in the ocean that was not a fisherman, when you can put multiple pictures of a gruesome car accident on the front page of your newspaper?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: whytegirl on July 09, 2006, 11:46:14 AM
Klaas, who's testimony was it about the cell phone?  How is it that we know Sander's cell was lost?  They brought him in for questioning or was that part of their father's statement?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Nut44x4 on July 09, 2006, 11:46:18 AM
Just want to say Bravo to Dana and his 2nd show with Art. Excellent info, indeed. Thanks to all who make it happen. Bravo also go to Klaas and all her info posts from days past and comments on those articles now, in recent days. I recently got Dave's Book and am now on Chapter 7...very interesting,  intriguing...and so frustrating. Unbelievable ......even from day one and anyone who does not see that is totally blind. Keep on plugging 4 this family...it is all we can do.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Buckeye on July 09, 2006, 11:47:40 AM
Quote from: "ldstlou"
Quote from: "Buckeye"
Hammer

Part of hitting head swimming.  I don't recall the earliest reports mentioning rocks or beach...only hitting head swimming.  

On 8-1 JUG stated to that on 6-1 several of JUG’s friends took some of the “KIDNAPPED” posters to Prime Suspect J. SLOOT’s “International School.” The friends had written on the NATALEE “missing” posters something like “ask Joran van der Sloot about Natalee’s whereabouts.” While the friends were still at the school, the school’s headmaster, ROBERT WERNER, came out and asked them what they were doing, and if JUG‘s friends were with the F.B.I. The friends told WERNER, who invited the friends into his school office. WERNER told JUG’s friends that the day before (5-31), the headmaster had spoken directly to Prime Suspect J. SLOOT and Current Suspect P. SLOOT in the headmaster’s office and that the headmaster told Prime Suspect J. SLOOT, “Joran, you need to come clean on what happened.” JUG stated that WERNER told his friends that Prime Suspect J. SLOOT claims he and NATALEE engaged in some form of sex, and, he also said that NATALEE may have hit her head while swimming that night. The headmaster also told the friends that Prime Suspect J. SLOOT and Current Suspect P. SLOOT claimed WERNER that the reason that Current Suspect D. KALPOE’s car could not be seen in the “Holiday Inn” security camera video tapes around 2:00 AM is that “there was a break in the tape.”

http://tinyurl.com/bcehg


if there is "some" truth in every story..could she have hit her head on Joran's pool? In order to hear monkey screech would they have had to have been outside? So she hits her head while swimming...but not at beach!! Where are you going to hit your head at a beach?


I think this might be how the original "pool" and "climbing the gate and falling" stories got started.  The pieces fit and made sense.  I couldn't find any quotes or direct evidence of this...but...it does make sense.


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Sleuth on July 09, 2006, 11:47:48 AM
I have on numerous times tossed around the idea that they turned right on LGSmith and went towards the Spanish Lagoon or Lorenzo's, but I never see anything to substantiate it.  Thus my opinion, based on what I've see thus far, goes along with Klaasend that they first went to the VDS residence and then on from there.  The big question in my mind is did they just swing by there and then go on toward Koens or a beach, or did they stay at the VDS residence.

I'm outraged that the VDS compound was not fully searched, because I firmly believe there was evidence there - whether it be from when they first went there or evidence that was 'brought back'.  

Why did it take so long for Paulus to come out that night that Beth, Jug, etc were there?


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: klaasend on July 09, 2006, 11:48:38 AM
From RWV August 26, 2005 regarding the questioning of Jaime and Freddy:

The arrests are said to be related to an incident that occurred back in April of this year. There are conflicting stories as to the alleged incident. One local news person is said to have stated that the incident involved a gang rape of an unidentified accuser.

According to statements by Jamie Carrasquilla, he believes the only2_7  event the charges could be related to involves photographs taken of a particular female individual, along with several others, back in April.

The pictures are said to be provocative in nature and were allegedly passed-around, as well as displayed, possibly somewhere on the Internet. At the time, or soon thereafter, one female individual is said to have been upset with the displaying of the pictures and asked the boys to remove and possibly destroy them.

Jamie Carrasquilla, pictured at left, is said to believe that the request was complied with and claims that the female in question, if she is indeed at the heart of the new arrests, has since spent time with many of the boys, even at least once at a party at the home of suspect Joran Van der Sloot.

According to sources, Prosecutor Karin Jannsen has stated only that additional information has led to the arrests.

Update: From a reader:

This is a comment from Jaime to Locoman on Locoman's Tickle page: well e guy ta un un di mi dos miho amigonan e ta mane mi ruman anto nos tei pa otro anytime den bon y den malo corda riba e adventures nan de fefi beto & jojo kk loca hahahahahahah

And from an ex of Joran Van der Sloot to Locoman: hooooode! lolz... next time no wanta e pober mucha su cabes :P hihihi, love you ! take care!! lolz *


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: klaasend on July 09, 2006, 11:50:22 AM
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e82/klaasend2/nowlocked.jpg)

Please move to LCD# 490

http://www.scaredmonkeys.net/viewtopic.php?t=59


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: Sleuth on July 09, 2006, 11:50:22 AM
Quote from: "Buckeye"

I certainly think Hammer owes us a research stipend...or Klaas, you can have my share and just add it to your itemized monthly business expense for Red. :wink:


No stipend necessary - he should just be an interviewee on the Dana show - I think he has tons of knowledge from his research that he could share  :wink:


Title: Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006
Post by: klaasend on July 09, 2006, 11:51:25 AM
Quote from: "Sleuth"
Quote from: "Buckeye"

I certainly think Hammer owes us a research stipend...or Klaas, you can have my share and just add it to your itemized monthly business expense for Red. :wink:


No stipend necessary - he should just be an interviewee on the Dana show - I think he has tons of knowledge from his research that he could share  :wink:


I'd like to see Hammer question the goon  :wink: