Scared Monkeys Discussion Forum

Missing, Exploited and True Crime => Lindsey Baum - McCleary, WA 6/26/09 => Topic started by: MuffyBee on July 26, 2009, 08:16:54 PM



Title: Lindsey Baum #3 7/28/09 - 8/26/09
Post by: MuffyBee on July 26, 2009, 08:16:54 PM
(http://**/content/articles/2009/06/28/local_news/doc4a4709024546f677630834.jpg)
LINDSEY BAUM
MCCLEARY, WA
MISSING SINCE JUNE 26, 2009


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: klaasend on July 28, 2009, 11:03:07 PM
Sorry about the early move but at the rate the last thread was going, I'd be up all night waiting on page 100  ::MonkeyHaHa::

I'm hoping this new search today brings us closer to finding Lindsey.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: MuffyBee on July 28, 2009, 11:23:45 PM
Sorry about the early move but at the rate the last thread was going, I'd be up all night waiting on page 100  ::MonkeyHaHa::

I'm hoping this new search today brings us closer to finding Lindsey.



I've been checking this thread on and off since late this afternoon myself...

I hope tomorrow is the day Lindsey is found.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Sister on July 28, 2009, 11:35:11 PM
"It could happen!" from Angels in the Outfield


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on July 29, 2009, 12:45:37 AM
kim c...

on your last post over on the other thread...

about checking the emails, etc, yes I do that sometimes too but I just never did it with adam as I had something else I was doing about him, and so hmmm on those. 

I know he has an AIM account somewhere, don't know what it is, really did not look but he has one.  I think it imight be an old one that has not been used in awhile. 

I am wondering if he hooked up with someone who is homeless and went with them here and there.  I am guessing, but it seems possible to me considering what I know. if that is the case, homeless people can be here one day and gone in the next, or in an hour etc.  just get in the car and drive to wherever, then come back again, who knows. 

what gets me is all this stuff going on in Roy and ft lewis.  too much stuff going on. 

I still am wondering about the white car.  It seems there were several people seeing this white car (I think), can't be sure but so the local rumor mill has it.  just stuff I am hearing from locals.  I hear a lot of things but you can't tell if the people really know or if someone is mistaken, a lot of conflicting stories coming out of mccleary.  one person says this, another says no that is not right, etc.  so I bet the police are getting some really messed up info, and then I am hearing there are people who will not tell the police anything, so hmmmm... so it is like people know things there, but either the right info is not getting to the police, or the police are not listening to some things, or there are people who know things and will not talk to the police.  so what a mess.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on July 29, 2009, 12:56:00 AM
KimC wrote:

Yes, these emails are attached to the address in Battle Ground, Washington.  300 SW 7th Ave. #505  Battle Ground.



300 SW 7th Ave. #505  Battle Ground

BATTLE GROUND, WA
VANCOUVER, WA
GREELEY, CO  he has a CO ip also hmmm

Possible Relatives:

CATT, WALTER R
CATT, KATHRYN L (Age 56)
ONEEL, SHAWNA M (Age 32)
CATT, BRADLEY M (Age 31)
RIDDELL, CANDY M (Age 42)
CATT, DELORES M

Possible Roommates / Associates:

DAVIS, JACKIE DISTEFANO (Age 83)
PHERNETTON, DANACRAFT L (Age 54)
CROSS, DANNY MARVIN (Age 59)
RODGERS, MARGARET L (Age 90)
SWALLING, JULIETTE E (Age 94)
 

hmmm this is the household for that address, I see also connected to colorado.  one of the ip's of adam routes through colorado, I did not really follow it to see why or what it was, maybe I should. 


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on July 29, 2009, 12:57:34 AM
KimC wrote:

Yes, these emails are attached to the address in Battle Ground, Washington.  300 SW 7th Ave. #505  Battle Ground.


_____________________________
*****************************

this part from DD

300 SW 7th Ave. #505  Battle Ground

BATTLE GROUND, WA
VANCOUVER, WA
GREELEY, CO  he has a CO ip also hmmm

Possible Relatives:

CATT, WALTER R
CATT, KATHRYN L (Age 56)
ONEEL, SHAWNA M (Age 32)
CATT, BRADLEY M (Age 31)
RIDDELL, CANDY M (Age 42)
CATT, DELORES M

Possible Roommates / Associates:

DAVIS, JACKIE DISTEFANO (Age 83)
PHERNETTON, DANACRAFT L (Age 54)
CROSS, DANNY MARVIN (Age 59)
RODGERS, MARGARET L (Age 90)
SWALLING, JULIETTE E (Age 94)
 

hmmm this is the household for that address, I see also connected to colorado.  one of the ip's of adam routes through colorado, I did not really follow it to see why or what it was, maybe I should. 

edited to show what part I wrote


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on July 29, 2009, 12:58:24 AM
oh and just to clarify this info,
colorado is not where he was 2 states away


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on July 29, 2009, 12:59:01 AM
and now I wonder if he has disappeared? hmmm

I wonder if he is in jail?


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on July 29, 2009, 01:04:35 AM
Name: Dana Moore Phernetton
Birth Date: Oct 1955
Phone Number: xxxxxxx
Address: 18952 Wisconsin Dr, Chippewa Falls, Wisconsin 54729-0201 (1993)
[Rr 8 Pob 193, Chippewa Falls, Wisconsin 54729-0101 (1989)]

I can't get those addresses to come up. 

looks like she is in WI at one time, so was the sex offender arrested out of montesaro, he was wanted out of WI....


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on July 29, 2009, 01:12:18 AM
hmmm same address same dob
Name: Danette L Phernetton
Birth Date: Oct 1955
Address: 18952 Wisconsin Dr, Chippewa Falls, Wisconsin 54729-0901 (1993)

same address & phone
Name: Mark A Phernetton
Birth Date: May 1960
Phone Number:xxxxxx
Address: 18952 Wisconsin Dr, Chippewa Falls, Wisconsin 54729-1001 (1993)
[Rr 8 Pob 193d, Chippewa Falls, Wisconsin 54729-0401 (1993)]
[316 Waterloo Rd, Marshall, Wisconsin 53559] 


Name: Mark Phernetton
Address: 18952 72Nd Ave 
City: Chippewa Falls 
State: Wisconsin 
Zip Code: 54729-7317
Phone Number: zzzzzzzz
Residence Years: 1993 1994 1995 1996 1997 1998 1999 2000 2001 2002 

not one of these addresses are coming up. hmmm are they real addresses?  they must be, look how many years mark lived there.  wonder why I can't get them to come up?

how would adam be tied to these poeople I wonder?





Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on July 29, 2009, 01:15:43 AM
PHERNETTON, MARK A (Age 49)

Associated names:

 PHERNE, MARK ALLEN
 PHERNETTON,  M
 CHIPPEWA FALLS, WI
CHIPPEWA FLS, WI
WEBSTER, WI
MARSHALL, WI

Possible Relatives:

PHERNETTON, DANETTE L (Age 53)

Possible Roommates / Associates:

MOORE, SETH T (Age 28)
SPRAGUE, ERIN N (Age 31)

oh crap I was punching in washington instead of wisconsin duh, let me try them again
 


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on July 29, 2009, 01:20:15 AM
other places showing up with the above addresses

frisco CO
pheonix az

I'm not connecting up anywhere with adam yet



Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on July 29, 2009, 01:22:23 AM
Wisconsin Marriages, 1973-1997
about Mark Allen Phernetton
Name: Mark Allen Phernetton  
Estimated Birth Year: 1960 
Age: 27 
Gender: M (Male) 
County of Residence: Burnett
Spouse: Danette Lavonne Moore  
Spouse's Estimated Birth Year: 1956 
Spouse's Age: 31 
Spouse's Gender: F (Female) 
Spouse's County of Residence: Eau Claire 
Marriage Date: 16 May 1987  
Marriage County: Polk 
Certificate Number: 006999 
Microfilm Roll Number: 21 
 


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on July 29, 2009, 01:24:59 AM
Minnesota Birth Index, 1935-2002
about Mark Allen Phernetton
Name: Mark Allen Phernetton  
Birth Date: 14 May 1960
Birth County: Hennepin 
Father: Harold Lloyd Phernetton
Mother: Rosemarie De Mars  
File Number: 1960-MN-001352 
 


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on July 29, 2009, 01:25:48 AM
Minnesota Birth Index, 1935-2002
about Mark Allen Phernetton
Name: Mark Allen Phernetton  
Birth Date: 14 May 1960
Birth County: Hennepin 
Father: Harold Lloyd Phernetton
Mother: Rosemarie De Mars  
File Number: 1960-MN-001352


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on July 29, 2009, 01:31:42 AM
mmm no ties to adam I can find yet, hmmm
how does he tie to these people? hmmm


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on July 29, 2009, 01:43:42 AM
adam is tied to these through the same phone number

 YAKIMA, WA
KENNESAW, GA
COLUMBIA, MD
VIENNA, VA
CHATTANOOGA, TN
TAMPA, FL
CARRSVILLE, KY
BERRIEN SPRINGS, MI

Possible Relatives:

PATTERSON, GEOFFREY E (Age 44)
PATTERSON, GARY B (Age 71)



YAKIMA, WA
LIND, WA
PASCO, WA
GRANDVIEW, WA   

KENNESAW, GA
YAKIMA, WA
CHATTANOOGA, TN
COLUMBIA, MD
VIENNA, VA
READING, PA
SILVER SPRING, MD
TAMPA, FL
BERRIEN SPRINGS, MI
CARRSVILLE, KY

 Possible Relatives:

PATTERSON, ALICIA W (Age 44)
PATTERSON, GARY B (Age 71)
PATTERSON, RACHEL KATHRYN (Age 69)
 


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Kermit on July 29, 2009, 02:44:28 AM
When you go to the site that MamaMouse was referencing. You ONLY see this. I saw no man named Kermit. That frog photo is the sties logo. It does not state it is Kermit.

(http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/6526/frogsite.jpg)



NO link to Kermit's photos.  This link takes you to a photo that was uploaded and posted at SM.

It is not part of that WhiteHouse or alleged man standing there that is named Kermit as was implied.


http://img389.imageshack.us/i/shoeallcomparisonak2.jpg/?a=V&ci=0&rt=4

The reason I know that is because I do not have an image shack account. I do not live in that white house.



Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: KarmaRoundUp on July 29, 2009, 07:47:50 AM
Good morning Monkeys

They may be searching again today.


Fresh eyes join search for missing girl.....

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/51941307.html





Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: KimC on July 29, 2009, 09:02:32 AM
adam is tied to these through the same phone number

 YAKIMA, WA
KENNESAW, GA
COLUMBIA, MD
VIENNA, VA
CHATTANOOGA, TN
TAMPA, FL
CARRSVILLE, KY
BERRIEN SPRINGS, MI

Possible Relatives:

PATTERSON, GEOFFREY E (Age 44)
PATTERSON, GARY B (Age 71)



YAKIMA, WA
LIND, WA
PASCO, WA
GRANDVIEW, WA   

KENNESAW, GA
YAKIMA, WA
CHATTANOOGA, TN
COLUMBIA, MD
VIENNA, VA
READING, PA
SILVER SPRING, MD
TAMPA, FL
BERRIEN SPRINGS, MI
CARRSVILLE, KY

 Possible Relatives:

PATTERSON, ALICIA W (Age 44)
PATTERSON, GARY B (Age 71)
PATTERSON, RACHEL KATHRYN (Age 69)
 


Pasco, Washington?  Karl S. Goering, possibly?

I'm going to throw this out here for speculation.

What if Adam Lee Campbell did not create his own MS pages.  What if Adam Lee Campbell did not create this adamcampbell65@yahoo.com email address that is associated with this email address?  What if someone else, wanting to thwart attention away from himself, created all this as a diversion? This has been my theory all along.  Perhaps this is someone who Adam met in jail or someone who was not in jail but had knowledge or contact with him.  Perhaps through some sort of prison outreach?  We've talked about this before.  Elma?  What are some of the activities of the Evergreen Christian Community Church in McCleary? 

Perhaps, as you say, the people in McCleary are not saying what they know ?? Perhaps this is because the answer is right in front of their faces?   


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: MuffyBee on July 29, 2009, 10:02:42 AM
Please say a prayer and light a candle for Lindsey, that she will be found.
http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/candles.cfm?l=eng&gi=FLB


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Tamikosmom on July 29, 2009, 10:07:21 AM
Good morning Monkeys

They may be searching again today.


Fresh eyes join search for missing girl.....

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/51941307.html


Thanks Karma.

One month too late.  IMO.

In the process of elimination ... homes and property within that two block stretch from home where Lindsey was witnessed by a neighbour should have been searched at the getgo.  Residents should of been considered persons of interest and brought in for questioning.

In the process of elimination ... the home and property of Melissa Baum should have been search at the getgo.  When you consider the revealed dynamics encompassing Lindsey's brother ... Josh Baum should have been considered a person of interest and brought in for questioning.

In the process of elimination ... the home and property of Wayne Watnee should have been searched at the getgo.  When you consider where this man resides in relation to the the Baum residence and ... his connection to both Linsey and Josh ... this man should have been considered a person of interest and brought in for questioning.

It is my prayer that behind the scenes the respective questionings and searches did take place and ... were not reported.

Janet

++++++

Fresh eyes join search for missing girl
Story Published: Jul 28, 2009 at 5:55 PM PDT
Story Updated: Jul 28, 2009 at 6:15 PM PDT

 
By Luke Duecy  Watch the story MCCLEARY, Wash. -- It's been more than a month since Lindsey Baum disappeared while walking home from a friend's house, but investigators are not giving up.

On Tuesday, detectives from Pierce County joined the search, hoping to turn up new leads or tips in the case.

They searched homes, trash cans and crawl spaces near where Lindsey was last seen, and cadaver-sniffing dogs were also brought in to comb the area

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/51941307.html


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Tamikosmom on July 29, 2009, 10:10:24 AM
Ockham's Razor

You must never fail to adopt the simplest idea as your working hypothesis. If necessity demands, you can dump it later when you have more data, but only because it is no longer the simplest idea" or "entities should not be multiplied beyond necessity


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: no rose colored glasses on July 29, 2009, 10:11:49 AM
Ockham's Razor

You must never fail to adopt the simplest idea as your working hypothesis. If necessity demands, you can dump it later when you have more data, but only because it is no longer the simplest idea" or "entities should not be multiplied beyond necessity

  ::MonkeyCool::


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: sunshine12 on July 29, 2009, 10:37:03 AM
Ockham's Razor

You must never fail to adopt the simplest idea as your working hypothesis. If necessity demands, you can dump it later when you have more data, but only because it is no longer the simplest idea" or "entities should not be multiplied beyond necessity


i agree, i really enjoy reading your posts and i really like when you remind us of the ockham's razor!  i will be very suprised if they don't find something within the mccleary town limits


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on July 29, 2009, 10:52:22 AM
Ockham's Razor

You must never fail to adopt the simplest idea as your working hypothesis. If necessity demands, you can dump it later when you have more data, but only because it is no longer the simplest idea" or "entities should not be multiplied beyond necessity


You know I agree with you on this. The answer to this is not going to be complicated. The simplest questions have to be answered first, and then move out in concentric circles to a more far reaching investigation. This seems not to have been done, and much time has already been wasted with days of no searching or investigation.  ::MonkeyNoNo::


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Tamikosmom on July 29, 2009, 11:08:57 AM
Ockham's Razor

You must never fail to adopt the simplest idea as your working hypothesis. If necessity demands, you can dump it later when you have more data, but only because it is no longer the simplest idea" or "entities should not be multiplied beyond necessity


You know I agree with you on this. The answer to this is not going to be complicated. The simplest questions have to be answered first, and then move out in concentric circles to a more far reaching investigation. This seems not to have been done, and much time has already been wasted with days of no searching or investigation.  ::MonkeyNoNo::

I agree.

Is it incompetence or ...

 ::MonkeyNoNo::

Janet


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: rebelgirl901 on July 29, 2009, 12:10:03 PM
Ockham's Razor

You must never fail to adopt the simplest idea as your working hypothesis. If necessity demands, you can dump it later when you have more data, but only because it is no longer the simplest idea" or "entities should not be multiplied beyond necessity


You know I agree with you on this. The answer to this is not going to be complicated. The simplest questions have to be answered first, and then move out in concentric circles to a more far reaching investigation. This seems not to have been done, and much time has already been wasted with days of no searching or investigation.  ::MonkeyNoNo::

I agree.

Is it incompetence or ...

 ::MonkeyNoNo::

Janet


Either these are the most inept l.e. in the state OR they already have an idea what happened to Lindsey and are not saying OR they are covering for someone.  Which is it? I don't know.

This is just crazy.  She did not vanish without a trace.  If the dogs did not pick up a scent, they need to get new dogs.  These dogs are trained for this kind of thing.  There has to be a scent.  They are not telling what they know.  IMO


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Northern Rose on July 29, 2009, 12:17:17 PM
Reader comments:

Misha2  ·  31 minutes ago

There is a little boy missing out in Boise,Idaho. His name is Robert Manwill. Does anyone out there believe that they might be connected? Robert went missing on Friday July 24,2009 and Lindsey went missing on June 26,2009 it was also a Friday.The authorities are checking along Interstate 84 and it runs all the way into Clark County,Washington.I hope and pray that both children will be found.

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/51941307.html


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: no rose colored glasses on July 29, 2009, 12:26:39 PM
Reader comments:

Misha2  ·  31 minutes ago

There is a little boy missing out in Boise,Idaho. His name is Robert Manwill. Does anyone out there believe that they might be connected? Robert went missing on Friday July 24,2009 and Lindsey went missing on June 26,2009 it was also a Friday.The authorities are checking along Interstate 84 and it runs all the way into Clark County,Washington.I hope and pray that both children will be found.

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/51941307.html
I've been following the case of this little guy, and I personally don't think there is any connection.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: no rose colored glasses on July 29, 2009, 12:27:57 PM
Ockham's Razor

You must never fail to adopt the simplest idea as your working hypothesis. If necessity demands, you can dump it later when you have more data, but only because it is no longer the simplest idea" or "entities should not be multiplied beyond necessity


You know I agree with you on this. The answer to this is not going to be complicated. The simplest questions have to be answered first, and then move out in concentric circles to a more far reaching investigation. This seems not to have been done, and much time has already been wasted with days of no searching or investigation.  ::MonkeyNoNo::

I agree.

Is it incompetence or ...

 ::MonkeyNoNo::

Janet


Either these are the most inept l.e. in the state OR they already have an idea what happened to Lindsey and are not saying OR they are covering for someone.  Which is it? I don't know.

This is just crazy.  She did not vanish without a trace.  If the dogs did not pick up a scent, they need to get new dogs.  These dogs are trained for this kind of thing.  There has to be a scent.  They are not telling what they know.  IMO
I hope you are right, and LE is not telling what they know, otherwise I hate to say this, but it looks like a botched case right from the start.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: sherip on July 29, 2009, 12:44:04 PM
I do not know how to bring posts from previous threads in to this one so if someone could help I'd appreciate it.  There is a photo of the Northwest Life Center in Elma under the "Weirdos Connected to the Churches and Strange Going ons"  Page 3

The church is "White" and the reader board says "he came to set the captives free"  Could this have anything to do with Adam Campbells messages?  Also, the reason I was looking there was at one point there was discussion of a SO ex police officer that was living up by Hood Canal - this was talked about when George Woodard and Michael Feezer were being looked at - does anyone remember who that person was or where that would be in all of this information?


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on July 29, 2009, 12:54:57 PM
I do not know how to bring posts from previous threads in to this one so if someone could help I'd appreciate it.  There is a photo of the Northwest Life Center in Elma under the "Weirdos Connected to the Churches and Strange Going ons"  Page 3

The church is "White" and the reader board says "he came to set the captives free"  Could this have anything to do with Adam Campbells messages?  Also, the reason I was looking there was at one point there was discussion of a SO ex police officer that was living up by Hood Canal - this was talked about when George Woodard and Michael Feezer were being looked at - does anyone remember who that person was or where that would be in all of this information?


Is this what you wanted?

(http://i715.photobucket.com/albums/ww157/Fannymae65/whitehousechurch.jpg)



Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on July 29, 2009, 12:57:36 PM
When a "Cold Case" detective takes a look at one of his cases, he goes right back to the VERY BEGINNING. This certainly seems like a cold case as no real movement has been made.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on July 29, 2009, 12:58:56 PM
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=5683.40

This is the page that I got the picture I posted above.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on July 29, 2009, 01:09:56 PM
from the above article
On Tuesday, detectives from Pierce County joined the search, hoping to turn up new leads or tips in the case.

They searched homes, trash cans and crawl spaces near where Lindsey was last seen, and cadaver-sniffing dogs were also brought in to comb the area

______________________________________

why if the feds have been there before, would they need the pierce county LE to turn up new leads?  hmmm  sounds like to me that pierce couty might have already had some leads and now they are involved in this case.  why would you just pick out some other county to come over to dig up leads.  Wouldn't that be saying that Grays Harbor County can't do the job, or the feds did not do the job? 

I don't believe they brought them in just because they wanted someone else to come find leads.  I personally really have to wonder if there is some tie to this case in Pierce County and now they are part of the case. 

Also we see from the above article they did have cadaver dogs there, IF the article got it right?  you just never know about the news..


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on July 29, 2009, 01:24:23 PM

snip

Pasco, Washington?  Karl S. Goering, possibly?

I'm going to throw this out here for speculation.

What if Adam Lee Campbell did not create his own MS pages.  What if Adam Lee Campbell did not create this adamcampbell65@yahoo.com email address that is associated with this email address?  What if someone else, wanting to thwart attention away from himself, created all this as a diversion? This has been my theory all along.  Perhaps this is someone who Adam met in jail or someone who was not in jail but had knowledge or contact with him.  Perhaps through some sort of prison outreach?  We've talked about this before.  Elma?  What are some of the activities of the Evergreen Christian Community Church in McCleary? 

Perhaps, as you say, the people in McCleary are not saying what they know ?? Perhaps this is because the answer is right in front of their faces?   

I believe it is adam who is using that email account.  I do believe he is the one who posted the posts to lindsey's guestbook.  I have other info that just about sums that up for sure.  Now he might be posting what someone else is telling him to post, that is possible yes, and I had wondered that as well.  But for certain, that is ADAM talking on that email and the guestbook.  I'm pretty positive of that. So much so I will say I am 100% positive that is adam on that email.  He might be posting what someone else tells him to post, but it is him for sure.  I know this because I have more info than those 2 posts on her guestbook.  Which I can't post the other info on here.

now adam was convicted in 1995. he is 31, he would have been approx. 17 at the time. I wonder how long he went to jail, or prison, or did he get probation?  I honestly believe if he has connections to someone else it is out of the homeless community or some kind of place which houses the homeless or sex offenders.  IF that was him connected to someone who has lindsey, we could very well be looking for some homeless sex offender, but this person might have never been caught, therefore, is not in the system for sex offenses. 

On the other hand what if they were paid to go pick her up from someone?  that's a possibility.  And that could very well be why pierce county is involved.  but that is just a bunch of "what if's" about pierce county involvement.  It's a very possible "theory", one I will not discount at all, and one I am really wondering about.  I would guess adam might be the kind of person who could get talked into doing something really stupid!  just my take on him.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on July 29, 2009, 01:25:11 PM
grrr on above post.  I do not know how to snip and quote and post. ugh I always get it in the wrong place


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on July 29, 2009, 01:27:11 PM

snip

KIMC

Pasco, Washington?  Karl S. Goering, possibly?

I'm going to throw this out here for speculation.

What if Adam Lee Campbell did not create his own MS pages.  What if Adam Lee Campbell did not create this adamcampbell65@yahoo.com email address that is associated with this email address?  What if someone else, wanting to thwart attention away from himself, created all this as a diversion? This has been my theory all along.  Perhaps this is someone who Adam met in jail or someone who was not in jail but had knowledge or contact with him.  Perhaps through some sort of prison outreach?  We've talked about this before.  Elma?  What are some of the activities of the Evergreen Christian Community Church in McCleary? 

Perhaps, as you say, the people in McCleary are not saying what they know ?? Perhaps this is because the answer is right in front of their faces?   

DOUBLEDECKER

I believe it is adam who is using that email account.  I do believe he is the one who posted the posts to lindsey's guestbook.  I have other info that just about sums that up for sure.  Now he might be posting what someone else is telling him to post, that is possible yes, and I had wondered that as well.  But for certain, that is ADAM talking on that email and the guestbook.  I'm pretty positive of that. So much so I will say I am 100% positive that is adam on that email.  He might be posting what someone else tells him to post, but it is him for sure.  I know this because I have more info than those 2 posts on her guestbook.  Which I can't post the other info on here.

now adam was convicted in 1995. he is 31, he would have been approx. 17 at the time. I wonder how long he went to jail, or prison, or did he get probation?  I honestly believe if he has connections to someone else it is out of the homeless community or some kind of place which houses the homeless or sex offenders.  IF that was him connected to someone who has lindsey, we could very well be looking for some homeless sex offender, but this person might have never been caught, therefore, is not in the system for sex offenses. 

On the other hand what if they were paid to go pick her up from someone?  that's a possibility.  And that could very well be why pierce county is involved.  but that is just a bunch of "what if's" about pierce county involvement.  It's a very possible "theory", one I will not discount at all, and one I am really wondering about.  I would guess adam might be the kind of person who could get talked into doing something really stupid!  just my take on him.

gee I have me saying what kimc said, and her saying what I said, let me edit to add who said what.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Artcolley on July 29, 2009, 01:28:04 PM
When you go to the site that MamaMouse was referencing. You ONLY see this. I saw no man named Kermit. That frog photo is the sties logo. It does not state it is Kermit.

(http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/6526/frogsite.jpg)



NO link to Kermit's photos.  This link takes you to a photo that was uploaded and posted at SM.

It is not part of that WhiteHouse or alleged man standing there that is named Kermit as was implied.


http://img389.imageshack.us/i/shoeallcomparisonak2.jpg/?a=V&ci=0&rt=4

The reason I know that is because I do not have an image shack account. I do not live in that white house.



Kermit

May I ask where you saw this from MamaMouse?
You DO know who MamaMouse is, don't you?

Shades of GM and banned ex-monkeys?

 ::MonkeyNoNo::


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: no rose colored glasses on July 29, 2009, 02:04:39 PM
I'm confused who is MamaMouse?  ::MonkeyConfused::


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Haddie McFaddies Mom on July 29, 2009, 02:07:38 PM

[/quote]

Is this what you wanted?

(http://i715.photobucket.com/albums/ww157/Fannymae65/whitehousechurch.jpg)


[/quote]

You sure this wasn't hanging outside the Courthouse, because by the look of things, it's a revolving door up there on Repeats, SO's and the like  ~

( & with continuous budget cuts, it's not going to get any better ) ::MonkeyNoNo::

Try & have a good day Monkey's  ::MonkeyAngel::



Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Leroy on July 29, 2009, 02:10:20 PM
I'm confused who is MamaMouse?  ::MonkeyConfused::

Me too NoRose....i'm confused about the whole post actually...did someone really think Kermit lived in that house?   ::MonkeyEek::    ::MonkeyConfused:: 





Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: no rose colored glasses on July 29, 2009, 02:11:02 PM
I'm confused who is MamaMouse?  ::MonkeyConfused::

Me too NoRose....i'm confused about the whole post actually...did someone really think Kermit lived in that house?   ::MonkeyEek::    ::MonkeyConfused:: 




  ::MonkeyConfused::  I don't know


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on July 29, 2009, 02:17:27 PM
I'm confused who is MamaMouse?  ::MonkeyConfused::

Me too NoRose....i'm confused about the whole post actually...did someone really think Kermit lived in that house?   ::MonkeyEek::    ::MonkeyConfused:: 




  ::MonkeyConfused::  I don't know

I am not sure this is where this should be discussed. JMO


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Leroy on July 29, 2009, 02:24:17 PM


I am not sure this is where this should be discussed. JMO

I know Fanny - I'm not dwelling on it really....i was just confused by the post but dont think it has anything to do with Lindsey.

I am just patiently waiting for news on Lindsey....and praying that the news will be she has been found safe and alive.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: sherip on July 29, 2009, 02:27:23 PM


Is this what you wanted?

(http://i715.photobucket.com/albums/ww157/Fannymae65/whitehousechurch.jpg)


[/quote]

You sure this wasn't hanging outside the Courthouse, because by the look of things, it's a revolving door up there on Repeats, SO's and the like  ~

( & with continuous budget cuts, it's not going to get any better ) ::MonkeyNoNo::

Try & have a good day Monkey's  ::MonkeyAngel::


[/quote]
Yes it was thank you Haddie McFaddies mom!


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: MuffyBee on July 29, 2009, 02:27:35 PM
THIS POST FROM KLAAS IN OTHER LINDSEY THREAD ABOUT THIS SUBJECT:

Kermit has nothing to do with Washington or the white house

You happened upon Kermit's image shack account is all

Drop the subject of Kermit now in the Lindsey threads, it has nothing to do with Lindsey







I can see that Kermit has posted since Klaas posted this.  And Kermit says she doesn't have an image shack account.  But the bottom line is:  Kermit has nothing to do with this Lindsey's case, so no reason for discussion here.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: AZSunny on July 29, 2009, 02:33:03 PM
Are there additional searches going on today?    I can't find anything on the news.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Leroy on July 29, 2009, 02:34:25 PM
Interesting article - nothing new though

Search for missing girl continues, more publicity is needed

http://www.lakestevensjournal.com/editorial/article.exm/2009-07-28_search_for_missing_girl_continues__more_publicity_is_needed


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Artcolley on July 29, 2009, 02:38:54 PM
Muffy.  
Feel free to delete my post.
I saw that  post and responded.
Sorry, won't do THAT again, lol

Carry on


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: MuffyBee on July 29, 2009, 02:43:12 PM
Muffy.  
Feel free to delete my post.
I saw that  post and responded.
Sorry, won't do THAT again, lol

Carry on

Art~  I'm sorry, I can't delete your post.  It's best left for Klaas. 


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: MuffyBee on July 29, 2009, 02:47:57 PM
Let's all get back to finding Lindsey  ::MonkeyAngel::

(http://**/content/articles/2009/06/28/local_news/doc4a4709024546f677630834.jpg)


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Leroy on July 29, 2009, 02:49:56 PM
Are there additional searches going on today?    I can't find anything on the news.

AZSunny - I am not sure but I would hope so.  I cant find any news either   ::MonkeyWaa:: 


Hi Muffy!


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: MuffyBee on July 29, 2009, 02:56:04 PM
Are there additional searches going on today?    I can't find anything on the news.

AZSunny - I am not sure but I would hope so.  I cant find any news either   ::MonkeyWaa:: 


Hi Muffy!

Good afternoon Leroy. 


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: KimC on July 29, 2009, 03:08:41 PM

snip

KIMC

Pasco, Washington?  Karl S. Goering, possibly?

I'm going to throw this out here for speculation.

What if Adam Lee Campbell did not create his own MS pages.  What if Adam Lee Campbell did not create this adamcampbell65@yahoo.com email address that is associated with this email address?  What if someone else, wanting to thwart attention away from himself, created all this as a diversion? This has been my theory all along.  Perhaps this is someone who Adam met in jail or someone who was not in jail but had knowledge or contact with him.  Perhaps through some sort of prison outreach?  We've talked about this before.  Elma?  What are some of the activities of the Evergreen Christian Community Church in McCleary? 

Perhaps, as you say, the people in McCleary are not saying what they know ?? Perhaps this is because the answer is right in front of their faces?   

DOUBLEDECKER

I believe it is adam who is using that email account.  I do believe he is the one who posted the posts to lindsey's guestbook.  I have other info that just about sums that up for sure.  Now he might be posting what someone else is telling him to post, that is possible yes, and I had wondered that as well.  But for certain, that is ADAM talking on that email and the guestbook.  I'm pretty positive of that. So much so I will say I am 100% positive that is adam on that email.  He might be posting what someone else tells him to post, but it is him for sure.  I know this because I have more info than those 2 posts on her guestbook.  Which I can't post the other info on here.

now adam was convicted in 1995. he is 31, he would have been approx. 17 at the time. I wonder how long he went to jail, or prison, or did he get probation?  I honestly believe if he has connections to someone else it is out of the homeless community or some kind of place which houses the homeless or sex offenders.  IF that was him connected to someone who has lindsey, we could very well be looking for some homeless sex offender, but this person might have never been caught, therefore, is not in the system for sex offenses. 

On the other hand what if they were paid to go pick her up from someone?  that's a possibility.  And that could very well be why pierce county is involved.  but that is just a bunch of "what if's" about pierce county involvement.  It's a very possible "theory", one I will not discount at all, and one I am really wondering about.  I would guess adam might be the kind of person who could get talked into doing something really stupid!  just my take on him.

gee I have me saying what kimc said, and her saying what I said, let me edit to add who said what.

Okay, well if there's a way to mess this "quote" up again, I will be the one to do it.   :smt100

I am bringing this back since we got a little off track.  Yes, these are all possible theories, and I suppose we could chase them.  There were sure alot of SO's and others homeless in Yakima.  You pointed that out before.  Lot's of SO's there.  Is there a way to search "release dates" for the SO's in Washington? 

I do have a feeling that it's someone, as you say "anyone" who he made contact with in prison or on the streets of Yakima.  We just have to put that together.

The other thing I am going to ask again.....What are the activities of the Evergreen Christian Community Church/McCleary Campus?  On Pine? 

As I said before, if we spent all that time on the Elma church and their goings on, let's talk a little about the Evergreen in McCleary.  I am still wondering if one of the first reports of Lindsey didn't connect her with this church initially.  The report said the Evergreen Christian Center in McCleary.  And I think it's this one.  Prison outreach?  Possibly?  Anyone? 

Thanks in advance.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Kermit on July 29, 2009, 03:10:10 PM

May I ask where you saw this from MamaMouse?
You DO know who MamaMouse is, don't you?

Shades of GM and banned ex-monkeys?

I meant the other mama that posted the photo.
Guess I had mamamouse on my mind for some odd reason.  ::MonkeyWink::


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on July 29, 2009, 03:24:08 PM

snip

KIMC

Pasco, Washington?  Karl S. Goering, possibly?

I'm going to throw this out here for speculation.

What if Adam Lee Campbell did not create his own MS pages.  What if Adam Lee Campbell did not create this adamcampbell65@yahoo.com email address that is associated with this email address?  What if someone else, wanting to thwart attention away from himself, created all this as a diversion? This has been my theory all along.  Perhaps this is someone who Adam met in jail or someone who was not in jail but had knowledge or contact with him.  Perhaps through some sort of prison outreach?  We've talked about this before.  Elma?  What are some of the activities of the Evergreen Christian Community Church in McCleary? 

Perhaps, as you say, the people in McCleary are not saying what they know ?? Perhaps this is because the answer is right in front of their faces?   

DOUBLEDECKER

I believe it is adam who is using that email account.  I do believe he is the one who posted the posts to lindsey's guestbook.  I have other info that just about sums that up for sure.  Now he might be posting what someone else is telling him to post, that is possible yes, and I had wondered that as well.  But for certain, that is ADAM talking on that email and the guestbook.  I'm pretty positive of that. So much so I will say I am 100% positive that is adam on that email.  He might be posting what someone else tells him to post, but it is him for sure.  I know this because I have more info than those 2 posts on her guestbook.  Which I can't post the other info on here.

now adam was convicted in 1995. he is 31, he would have been approx. 17 at the time. I wonder how long he went to jail, or prison, or did he get probation?  I honestly believe if he has connections to someone else it is out of the homeless community or some kind of place which houses the homeless or sex offenders.  IF that was him connected to someone who has lindsey, we could very well be looking for some homeless sex offender, but this person might have never been caught, therefore, is not in the system for sex offenses. 

On the other hand what if they were paid to go pick her up from someone?  that's a possibility.  And that could very well be why pierce county is involved.  but that is just a bunch of "what if's" about pierce county involvement.  It's a very possible "theory", one I will not discount at all, and one I am really wondering about.  I would guess adam might be the kind of person who could get talked into doing something really stupid!  just my take on him.

gee I have me saying what kimc said, and her saying what I said, let me edit to add who said what.

Okay, well if there's a way to mess this "quote" up again, I will be the one to do it.   :smt100

I am bringing this back since we got a little off track.  Yes, these are all possible theories, and I suppose we could chase them.  There were sure alot of SO's and others homeless in Yakima.  You pointed that out before.  Lot's of SO's there.  Is there a way to search "release dates" for the SO's in Washington? 

I do have a feeling that it's someone, as you say "anyone" who he made contact with in prison or on the streets of Yakima.  We just have to put that together.

The other thing I am going to ask again.....What are the activities of the Evergreen Christian Community Church/McCleary Campus?  On Pine? 

As I said before, if we spent all that time on the Elma church and their goings on, let's talk a little about the Evergreen in McCleary.  I am still wondering if one of the first reports of Lindsey didn't connect her with this church initially.  The report said the Evergreen Christian Center in McCleary.  And I think it's this one.  Prison outreach?  Possibly?  Anyone? 

Thanks in advance.

well we are both messing this quote thing all up... Quote and snip lessons for us anyone LOL 

okay hopefully I post this one correctly.  I am not going to try to snip this one LOL

remember that adam also had a ROY, wa address.  on 6th street, I have the address somewhere.  on that street are several other sex offenders.  I would like to know what that street is like, are there a lot of homeless hanging out there, maybe a mission, motels, etc?  a bit park for homeless hangout, a food bank, halfway houses?  adam used this street as an address at one time.  this is right there at the Roy highway and ft lewis.  This is where the lady said she saw two guys with lindsey.  then she positively 100% id'd adam campbell as one of them.  as far as I know she is still sure of this in her own mind.  The police interviewed adam... he has a solid tight alibi the day lindsey disappeared, the day after and several days before and had been living two states away as of june 19th.  But.... where was he AFTER june 27th?  was he actually back in Roy(where he had an address) on the day the lady saw the two men with who she says is lindsey.  did he go there and then back out of state later?  It's possible for sure.  Did I ask, NO, am I going to, NO LOL, but can I wonder, yes LOL

so what if he hooked up with some homeless people from Roy and went out of state and then back to roy on the day the lady says she saw him.  What if adam had nothing to do with "taking' lindsey but when he sees all this stuff on the news, he posts on her guestbook trying to tell someone some info?  what if he does know something.  maybe he got to thinking he better tell?  maybe he didn't have a clue who she was at the time?  remember he is deaf maybe she tried to tell him and he could not understand her at the time.  maybe he thought she was the daughter of the guy?  heck who knows.  but for some reason he posted on her guestbook trying to give someone some info.  No telling what he told the police when the interviewed him.  hopefully he really did have some info and told them and it helped.  think about it, Pierce county is now in mccleary.  and Roy wa is in pierce county.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on July 29, 2009, 03:25:09 PM
haha, I am not quoting that message post again LOL, for some reason it keeps putting everything new up in the quote.  LOL


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: KimC on July 29, 2009, 03:29:17 PM

snip

KIMC

Pasco, Washington?  Karl S. Goering, possibly?

I'm going to throw this out here for speculation.

What if Adam Lee Campbell did not create his own MS pages.  What if Adam Lee Campbell did not create this adamcampbell65@yahoo.com email address that is associated with this email address?  What if someone else, wanting to thwart attention away from himself, created all this as a diversion? This has been my theory all along.  Perhaps this is someone who Adam met in jail or someone who was not in jail but had knowledge or contact with him.  Perhaps through some sort of prison outreach?  We've talked about this before.  Elma?  What are some of the activities of the Evergreen Christian Community Church in McCleary? 

Perhaps, as you say, the people in McCleary are not saying what they know ?? Perhaps this is because the answer is right in front of their faces?   

DOUBLEDECKER

I believe it is adam who is using that email account.  I do believe he is the one who posted the posts to lindsey's guestbook.  I have other info that just about sums that up for sure.  Now he might be posting what someone else is telling him to post, that is possible yes, and I had wondered that as well.  But for certain, that is ADAM talking on that email and the guestbook.  I'm pretty positive of that. So much so I will say I am 100% positive that is adam on that email.  He might be posting what someone else tells him to post, but it is him for sure.  I know this because I have more info than those 2 posts on her guestbook.  Which I can't post the other info on here.

now adam was convicted in 1995. he is 31, he would have been approx. 17 at the time. I wonder how long he went to jail, or prison, or did he get probation?  I honestly believe if he has connections to someone else it is out of the homeless community or some kind of place which houses the homeless or sex offenders.  IF that was him connected to someone who has lindsey, we could very well be looking for some homeless sex offender, but this person might have never been caught, therefore, is not in the system for sex offenses. 

On the other hand what if they were paid to go pick her up from someone?  that's a possibility.  And that could very well be why pierce county is involved.  but that is just a bunch of "what if's" about pierce county involvement.  It's a very possible "theory", one I will not discount at all, and one I am really wondering about.  I would guess adam might be the kind of person who could get talked into doing something really stupid!  just my take on him.

gee I have me saying what kimc said, and her saying what I said, let me edit to add who said what.

Okay, well if there's a way to mess this "quote" up again, I will be the one to do it.   :smt100

I am bringing this back since we got a little off track.  Yes, these are all possible theories, and I suppose we could chase them.  There were sure alot of SO's and others homeless in Yakima.  You pointed that out before.  Lot's of SO's there.  Is there a way to search "release dates" for the SO's in Washington? 

I do have a feeling that it's someone, as you say "anyone" who he made contact with in prison or on the streets of Yakima.  We just have to put that together.

The other thing I am going to ask again.....What are the activities of the Evergreen Christian Community Church/McCleary Campus?  On Pine? 

As I said before, if we spent all that time on the Elma church and their goings on, let's talk a little about the Evergreen in McCleary.  I am still wondering if one of the first reports of Lindsey didn't connect her with this church initially.  The report said the Evergreen Christian Center in McCleary.  And I think it's this one.  Prison outreach?  Possibly?  Anyone? 

Thanks in advance.


So, maybe while he was in ROY?
Auburn (part), Bonney Lake, Buckley, Carbonado, DuPont, Eatonville, Edgewood, Enumclaw (part), Fife, Fircrest, Gig Harbor, Lakewood, Milton (part), Orting, Pacific (part), Puyallup, Roy, Ruston, South Prairie, Steilacoom, Sumner, Tacoma, University Place, and Wilkeson.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on July 29, 2009, 03:33:36 PM
I HAVE to find adam campbells birthdate. 

should be 1978 .. I thought I had it and now can't find it.  I really really really need his birthdate.  if I have that I can find some other info I really realy really need. ugh.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: KarmaRoundUp on July 29, 2009, 03:35:07 PM
This says they have a search center set up.


If you are interested in volunteering the center will be opening up early next week at 211 Simpson St. in McCleary. All volunteer searchers must be 18 or older with ID. Anyone younger or with kids are welcome to pass out and distribute flyers or ask at center if there is any other way to assist.

http://www.lindseybaum.com/donations
 



Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on July 29, 2009, 03:38:57 PM
is this a key word
TROBULE
and what might that be

another thing he does is keeps SMILE LAUGH  CLEAR 

these are key words

do they mean anything?:  I don't know


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Lovinlife on July 29, 2009, 03:41:52 PM
is this a key word
TROBULE
and what might that be

another thing he does is keeps SMILE LAUGH  CLEAR 

these are key words

do they mean anything?:  I don't know
CLEAR=McCleary ???


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on July 29, 2009, 03:44:39 PM
This says they have a search center set up.


If you are interested in volunteering the center will be opening up early next week at 211 Simpson St. in McCleary. All volunteer searchers must be 18 or older with ID. Anyone younger or with kids are welcome to pass out and distribute flyers or ask at center if there is any other way to assist.

http://www.lindseybaum.com/donations
 



that is the building they "pulled" and "decided" not to "get involved"


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on July 29, 2009, 03:46:17 PM
is this a key word
TROBULE
and what might that be

another thing he does is keeps SMILE LAUGH  CLEAR 

these are key words

do they mean anything?:  I don't know
CLEAR=McCleary ???

see you see that too, and I also see all this SMILE  as maybe Smiley. 

I just wanted to see what someone else thought.

I am telling you he is coding stuff, but it's such a mess. 

maybe he is ONLY just talking like that.  I don't know.  LOL


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on July 29, 2009, 03:46:54 PM
he will also say Clearly


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Leroy on July 29, 2009, 03:51:09 PM
I HAVE to find adam campbells birthdate. 

should be 1978 .. I thought I had it and now can't find it.  I really really really need his birthdate.  if I have that I can find some other info I really realy really need. ugh.

DD  - I found Adams DOB...it was in the last thread

         3922    M    i    Adam Campbell THOMPSON was born on 11 Jun 1978 in Tacoma, , Washington, USA.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Lovinlife on July 29, 2009, 03:56:17 PM
is this a key word
TROBULE
and what might that be

another thing he does is keeps SMILE LAUGH  CLEAR 

these are key words

do they mean anything?:  I don't know
CLEAR=McCleary ???

see you see that too, and I also see all this SMILE  as maybe Smiley. 

I just wanted to see what someone else thought.

I am telling you he is coding stuff, but it's such a mess. 

maybe he is ONLY just talking like that.  I don't know.  LOL
I've been sparadically reading bits and pieces of this case, too hard to follow for me.  That just jumped straight out at me. I never even thought SMILE=Smiley!  I can only imagine what crap you're digging through. 

Where is Lindsey? :gaah:


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: MuffyBee on July 29, 2009, 03:59:07 PM
http://www.ascdeaf.com/blog/?m=200608
<snip>
 An interpreter who is familiar with the concept of a “word salad’, for instance, would recognize a Deaf person’s incomprehensible string of words as a psychiatric symptom and be able to communicate this to the hearing professional. An interpreter with no prior exposure or knowledge of word salads, in contrast, might unintentionally try to “clean up” the Deaf person’s signing so that it makes sense to the hearing professional, unaware that an important psychiatric symptom is unconveyed in the process.
<snip>

Is Adam hearing impaired?  Or has a learning disability or communication problem?

Maybe his messages are a code, I don't know.  But I was also considering the above.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on July 29, 2009, 04:05:48 PM
I HAVE to find adam campbells birthdate. 

should be 1978 .. I thought I had it and now can't find it.  I really really really need his birthdate.  if I have that I can find some other info I really realy really need. ugh.

DD  - I found Adams DOB...it was in the last thread

         3922    M    i    Adam Campbell THOMPSON was born on 11 Jun 1978 in Tacoma, , Washington, USA.

that is not him leroy.  that is someone, someone found and had wondered if this was also adam campbell, but I don't think that is the same person.... it might be, but I just am thinking it isn't.  the thing is I have to be certain I have the right birthdate, or what I am trying to do will not work LOL   but thank you so much for trying to find that, you probably went to a lot of trouble searching for it ugh


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Leroy on July 29, 2009, 04:06:37 PM
http://www.ascdeaf.com/blog/?m=200608
<snip>
 An interpreter who is familiar with the concept of a “word salad’, for instance, would recognize a Deaf person’s incomprehensible string of words as a psychiatric symptom and be able to communicate this to the hearing professional. An interpreter with no prior exposure or knowledge of word salads, in contrast, might unintentionally try to “clean up” the Deaf person’s signing so that it makes sense to the hearing professional, unaware that an important psychiatric symptom is unconveyed in the process.
<snip>

Is Adam hearing impaired?  Or has a learning disability or communication problem?

Maybe his messages are a code, I don't know.  But I was also considering the above.

He is hearing impaired.  I cant decide if these messages are coded or not.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on July 29, 2009, 04:10:44 PM
http://www.ascdeaf.com/blog/?m=200608
<snip>
 An interpreter who is familiar with the concept of a “word salad’, for instance, would recognize a Deaf person’s incomprehensible string of words as a psychiatric symptom and be able to communicate this to the hearing professional. An interpreter with no prior exposure or knowledge of word salads, in contrast, might unintentionally try to “clean up” the Deaf person’s signing so that it makes sense to the hearing professional, unaware that an important psychiatric symptom is unconveyed in the process.
<snip>

Is Adam hearing impaired?  Or has a learning disability or communication problem?

Maybe his messages are a code, I don't know.  But I was also considering the above.

yes he is deaf.  and he does use an interpreter.  but we also have to remember, he posted on lindsey's guestbook saying he could help.  So he must at least THINK he has some information to help.  I asked someone at the grays harbor le if if it could turn out all gobbly gook if he were deaf, they said it could. 

see this is why I think it is a combination of his wording because he is deaf, and ALSO because he is trying to say something without saying it.  so there are two things going on here.  this is why it is so hard to figure out.  if it were ONLY coded, I think I could figure this out, but being we add to it that he is deaf and needs an interpreter, it really messes it all up.  Hopefully when the police communicated with him he told them what he knows.  he did not just go post on the lindsey guestbook just because he randomly found it and had nothing better to do... that is my thought


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: canadianmonkey on July 29, 2009, 04:11:02 PM
http://www.ascdeaf.com/blog/?m=200608
<snip>
 An interpreter who is familiar with the concept of a “word salad’, for instance, would recognize a Deaf person’s incomprehensible string of words as a psychiatric symptom and be able to communicate this to the hearing professional. An interpreter with no prior exposure or knowledge of word salads, in contrast, might unintentionally try to “clean up” the Deaf person’s signing so that it makes sense to the hearing professional, unaware that an important psychiatric symptom is unconveyed in the process.
<snip>

Is Adam hearing impaired?  Or has a learning disability or communication problem?

Maybe his messages are a code, I don't know.  But I was also considering the above.

Yes MuffyBee.  On an earlier thread somewhere its listed on his SO page that he is hearing impaired.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Leroy on July 29, 2009, 04:14:08 PM


that is not him leroy.  that is someone, someone found and had wondered if this was also adam campbell, but I don't think that is the same person.... it might be, but I just am thinking it isn't.  the thing is I have to be certain I have the right birthdate, or what I am trying to do will not work LOL   but thank you so much for trying to find that, you probably went to a lot of trouble searching for it ugh

no problem DD....i just want to your previous posts and should have read forward a bit.  Well that's one date in 1978 that we can rule out at least   ::MonkeyWink:: 

i will look some more


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: mamacrazy30 on July 29, 2009, 04:15:19 PM
 if Lindsey has indeed been the Mcleary area the entire time, and if now they are really starting to search the area, would she still be there now?  who ever has had her Has had her for a month... ::MonkeyNoNo::


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on July 29, 2009, 04:23:29 PM
adam is deaf and uses a phone relay interpreter. 


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: A_News_Junkie_Monkey on July 29, 2009, 04:24:42 PM
DD - is this it?  Found this in last thread:
Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #2
Post by: JessStar on July 22, 2009, 12:23:19 PM
The following information was obtained from public records:

CAMPBELL, ADAM L
(DOB: 02/1978)
(Age: 31)


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: rebelgirl901 on July 29, 2009, 04:27:56 PM
if Lindsey has indeed been the Mcleary area the entire time, and if now they are really starting to search the area, would she still be there now?  who ever has had her Has had her for a month... ::MonkeyNoNo::


Yes it is possible she has been in McCleary the whole time. I think that may be the reason some have not been very helpful in the searches or in providing information to L.E.  Somebody in that town knows what happened to Lindsey.  JMO


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on July 29, 2009, 04:36:00 PM
DD - is this it?  Found this in last thread:
Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #2
Post by: JessStar on July 22, 2009, 12:23:19 PM
The following information was obtained from public records:

CAMPBELL, ADAM L
(DOB: 02/1978)
(Age: 31)


I bet that is it, did jessstar give an address with that, so I can be sure ... but she is usually "right on" with the dates connected to the addresses


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: A_News_Junkie_Monkey on July 29, 2009, 04:42:47 PM
DD - is this it?  Found this in last thread:
Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #2
Post by: JessStar on July 22, 2009, 12:23:19 PM
The following information was obtained from public records:

CAMPBELL, ADAM L
(DOB: 02/1978)
(Age: 31)


I bet that is it, did jessstar give an address with that, so I can be sure ... but she is usually "right on" with the dates connected to the addresses

I bet she did, I just cut the DOB - let me go back and see!


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: KimC on July 29, 2009, 04:47:34 PM
Okay DD, I am beginning this new thread.  I should've probably brought it over from Lindsey part 2, but I am going to throw a whole bunch of stuff out here. 

Let's start with Adam's address in Roy.  Let's assume he had a contact there.  I think he did.  I have a strong reason to believe that there's an association between Adam Campbell and this Karl Steven Goering.

This Karl Steven Goering character, an SO, operating under the radar in Kennewick right now. Non-Compliant.  A Karl S. Goering was a detective in Kennewick too, and I am suspecting that it was possibly his father.   I have a whole bunch of stuff on Karl S. Junior that I posted on Lindsey part 2.  Okay, now that Pierce is in McCleary, that brings us back to Roy, cause Roy is in that county.  Stay with me here, I Will get this out.  Just want to post some stats here again on Karl junior.   Address:  6102 Road 68, Kennewick, Wa.  I have the phone number.  Easy to find.  He married Theresa Ann Forzaglia on Dec 18, 2000.  Child support issues same year.  He's got MS page member #281491802.  Nothing there but a monkey playing a guitar (Is this a slam?)  Another MS member #364234353 with lots and lots of photos.  Born June 18, 1973.  Resembles Adam Lee Campbell, possibly.  Then he's got that fubar page too.  It's in the other thread.  Okay, this is background.

I work in reverse a lot of times.  So, I started in Roy and found that a Dwight Edward Goering used to live in Roy.  He lives in Moses Lake currently.  Address:  1025 Virginia St.  Moses Lake, Wa.  98837.  I have phone too but it's easy to find.  He's on MyLife (formerly Classmates.com I think).  Born September 4, 1962.  Wife Desiree lives at same address.  There's a Donna too, but I believe she lives elsewhere in Washington now. 

On MyLife, Dwight has three friends, one of whom is Theresa Goering in Kennewick, Karl S. Goering Jr's current wife. 

So, this may be Adam's connection from Roy in a round-about way.  I still need to do some snooping around in Roy. 

But, when all is said and done, I think we will find a string of suspects and a string of missing children.  Now, I haven't done this yet, but if we just CONSIDER the possibility that there's a connection here, perhaps the Code (such as it is) may make sense.  I don't know cause I haven't looked at it myself in while.  Do you have the whole message handy to post here again?

Anyway, just more stuff to consider.   :smt120


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: A_News_Junkie_Monkey on July 29, 2009, 04:48:18 PM
DD - is this it?  Found this in last thread:
Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #2
Post by: JessStar on July 22, 2009, 12:23:19 PM
The following information was obtained from public records:

CAMPBELL, ADAM L
(DOB: 02/1978)
(Age: 31)


I bet that is it, did jessstar give an address with that, so I can be sure ... but she is usually "right on" with the dates connected to the addresses

I bet she did, I just cut the DOB - let me go back and see!

Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #2
Post by: JessStar on July 22, 2009, 12:23:19 PM
The following information was obtained from public records:

CAMPBELL, ADAM L
(DOB: 02/1978)
(Age: 31)

7104 314TH ST S
ROY, WA 98580-9712
PIERCE COUNTY
(03/2008-Current)   

708 W HOME AVE APT 4
SELAH, WA 98942-1007
YAKIMA COUNTY
(01/2009-01/2009)   

PO BOX 1563
YAKIMA, WA 98907-1563
YAKIMA COUNTY
(08/2005-04/2008)   

PO BOX 1209
YAKIMA, WA 98907-1209
YAKIMA COUNTY
(01/2008-01/2008)   

605 N 3RD ST APT 1
YAKIMA, WA 98901-2227
YAKIMA COUNTY
(07/2004-10/2005)   

807 S 14TH ST
YAKIMA, WA 98901-3345
YAKIMA COUNTY
(09/2002-06/2005)   

108 S 7TH AVE APT 3
YAKIMA, WA 98902-3374
YAKIMA COUNTY
(07/2002-09/2002)   

124 N 5TH AVE
PASCO, WA 99301-5512
FRANKLIN COUNTY
(04/2002-04/2002)
Social Services Facility   

505 EUCLID ST # 2
GRANDVIEW, WA 98930-1522
YAKIMA COUNTY
(12/2001-04/2002)   

720 N 15TH AVE APT 209
YAKIMA, WA 98902-1964
YAKIMA COUNTY
(10/2001-12/2001) 

211 S NACHES AVE APT 209
YAKIMA, WA 98901-4720
YAKIMA COUNTY
(07/2000-07/2000)   

109 E PHILLIPS RD BLDG E
LIND, WA 99341-9755
ADAMS COUNTY
(03/2000-03/2000)
 
 


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: mamacrazy30 on July 29, 2009, 04:49:34 PM
if Lindsey has indeed been the Mcleary area the entire time, and if now they are really starting to search the area, would she still be there now?  who ever has had her Has had her for a month... ::MonkeyNoNo::


Yes it is possible she has been in McCleary the whole time. I think that may be the reason some have not been very helpful in the searches or in providing information to L.E.  Somebody in that town knows what happened to Lindsey.  JMO
so now that they know the heat is on, you think they would still have her in McCleary?


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: KimC on July 29, 2009, 04:52:59 PM
Okay DD, I am beginning this new thread.  I should've probably brought it over from Lindsey part 2, but I am going to throw a whole bunch of stuff out here. 

Let's start with Adam's address in Roy.  Let's assume he had a contact there.  I think he did.  I have a strong reason to believe that there's an association between Adam Campbell and this Karl Steven Goering.

This Karl Steven Goering character, an SO, operating under the radar in Kennewick right now. Non-Compliant.  A Karl S. Goering was a detective in Kennewick too, and I am suspecting that it was possibly his father.   I have a whole bunch of stuff on Karl S. Junior that I posted on Lindsey part 2.  Okay, now that Pierce is in McCleary, that brings us back to Roy, cause Roy is in that county.  Stay with me here, I Will get this out.  Just want to post some stats here again on Karl junior.   Address:  6102 Road 68, Kennewick, WaThis should be Pasco Washington.  I have the phone number.  Easy to find.  He married Theresa Ann Forzaglia on Dec 18, 2000.  Child support issues same year.  He's got MS page member #281491802.  Nothing there but a monkey playing a guitar (Is this a slam?)  Another MS member #364234353 with lots and lots of photos.  Born June 18, 1973.  Resembles Adam Lee Campbell, possibly.  Then he's got that fubar page too.  It's in the other thread.  Okay, this is background.

I work in reverse a lot of times.  So, I started in Roy and found that a Dwight Edward Goering used to live in Roy.  He lives in Moses Lake currently.  Address:  1025 Virginia St.  Moses Lake, Wa.  98837.  I have phone too but it's easy to find.  He's on MyLife (formerly Classmates.com I think).  Born September 4, 1962.  Wife Desiree lives at same address.  There's a Donna too, but I believe she lives elsewhere in Washington now. 

On MyLife, Dwight has three friends, one of whom is Theresa Goering in Kennewick, Karl S. Goering Jr's current wife. 

So, this may be Adam's connection from Roy in a round-about way.  I still need to do some snooping around in Roy. 

But, when all is said and done, I think we will find a string of suspects and a string of missing children.  Now, I haven't done this yet, but if we just CONSIDER the possibility that there's a connection here, perhaps the Code (such as it is) may make sense.  I don't know cause I haven't looked at it myself in while.  Do you have the whole message handy to post here again?

Anyway, just more stuff to consider.   :smt120


I want to make a correction to my last post.  the current address for Karl Steven Goering Jr. is in Pasco, Washington.  Not Kennewick, just in case LE of some description in this area wants to pay this guy a visit.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on July 29, 2009, 05:01:13 PM
DD - is this it?  Found this in last thread:
Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #2
Post by: JessStar on July 22, 2009, 12:23:19 PM
The following information was obtained from public records:

CAMPBELL, ADAM L
(DOB: 02/1978)
(Age: 31)


I bet that is it, did jessstar give an address with that, so I can be sure ... but she is usually "right on" with the dates connected to the addresses

I bet she did, I just cut the DOB - let me go back and see!

Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #2
Post by: JessStar on July 22, 2009, 12:23:19 PM
The following information was obtained from public records:

CAMPBELL, ADAM L
(DOB: 02/1978)
(Age: 31)

7104 314TH ST S
ROY, WA 98580-9712
PIERCE COUNTY
(03/2008-Current)   

708 W HOME AVE APT 4
SELAH, WA 98942-1007
YAKIMA COUNTY
(01/2009-01/2009)   

PO BOX 1563
YAKIMA, WA 98907-1563
YAKIMA COUNTY
(08/2005-04/2008)   

PO BOX 1209
YAKIMA, WA 98907-1209
YAKIMA COUNTY
(01/2008-01/2008)   

605 N 3RD ST APT 1
YAKIMA, WA 98901-2227
YAKIMA COUNTY
(07/2004-10/2005)   

807 S 14TH ST
YAKIMA, WA 98901-3345
YAKIMA COUNTY
(09/2002-06/2005)   

108 S 7TH AVE APT 3
YAKIMA, WA 98902-3374
YAKIMA COUNTY
(07/2002-09/2002)   

124 N 5TH AVE
PASCO, WA 99301-5512
FRANKLIN COUNTY
(04/2002-04/2002)
Social Services Facility   

505 EUCLID ST # 2
GRANDVIEW, WA 98930-1522
YAKIMA COUNTY
(12/2001-04/2002)   

720 N 15TH AVE APT 209
YAKIMA, WA 98902-1964
YAKIMA COUNTY
(10/2001-12/2001) 

211 S NACHES AVE APT 209
YAKIMA, WA 98901-4720
YAKIMA COUNTY
(07/2000-07/2000)   

109 E PHILLIPS RD BLDG E
LIND, WA 99341-9755
ADAMS COUNTY
(03/2000-03/2000)
 
 

yes that is him, so feb 1978, gee wish they had the DAY, oh well maybe this will work LOL  I will try it . 


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: JessStar on July 29, 2009, 05:03:38 PM
DD - is this it?  Found this in last thread:
Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #2
Post by: JessStar on July 22, 2009, 12:23:19 PM
The following information was obtained from public records:

CAMPBELL, ADAM L
(DOB: 02/1978)
(Age: 31)


I bet that is it, did jessstar give an address with that, so I can be sure ... but she is usually "right on" with the dates connected to the addresses

I bet she did, I just cut the DOB - let me go back and see!

Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #2
Post by: JessStar on July 22, 2009, 12:23:19 PM
The following information was obtained from public records:

CAMPBELL, ADAM L
(DOB: 02/1978)
(Age: 31)

7104 314TH ST S
ROY, WA 98580-9712
PIERCE COUNTY
(03/2008-Current)   

708 W HOME AVE APT 4
SELAH, WA 98942-1007
YAKIMA COUNTY
(01/2009-01/2009)   

PO BOX 1563
YAKIMA, WA 98907-1563
YAKIMA COUNTY
(08/2005-04/2008)   

PO BOX 1209
YAKIMA, WA 98907-1209
YAKIMA COUNTY
(01/2008-01/2008)   

605 N 3RD ST APT 1
YAKIMA, WA 98901-2227
YAKIMA COUNTY
(07/2004-10/2005)   

807 S 14TH ST
YAKIMA, WA 98901-3345
YAKIMA COUNTY
(09/2002-06/2005)   

108 S 7TH AVE APT 3
YAKIMA, WA 98902-3374
YAKIMA COUNTY
(07/2002-09/2002)   

124 N 5TH AVE
PASCO, WA 99301-5512
FRANKLIN COUNTY
(04/2002-04/2002)
Social Services Facility   

505 EUCLID ST # 2
GRANDVIEW, WA 98930-1522
YAKIMA COUNTY
(12/2001-04/2002)   

720 N 15TH AVE APT 209
YAKIMA, WA 98902-1964
YAKIMA COUNTY
(10/2001-12/2001) 

211 S NACHES AVE APT 209
YAKIMA, WA 98901-4720
YAKIMA COUNTY
(07/2000-07/2000)   

109 E PHILLIPS RD BLDG E
LIND, WA 99341-9755
ADAMS COUNTY
(03/2000-03/2000)
 
 

I'm pretty sure this is the right Adam Campbell.  He is hearing impaired.  And the 124 N. 5th Avenue, Pasco, WA address comes up as:

      SEWSCDHH Inc

            124 N 5th Ave

            Pasco                       WA     99301

            (509) 543-9644

            -Interpreter Services for Hearing Impaired Employees


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: JessStar on July 29, 2009, 05:05:01 PM

 
 

I'm pretty sure this is the right Adam Campbell.  He is hearing impaired.  And the 124 N. 5th Avenue, Pasco, WA address comes up as:

      SEWSCDHH Inc

            124 N 5th Ave

            Pasco                       WA     99301

            (509) 543-9644

            -Interpreter Services for Hearing Impaired Employees


That's the Southeastern Washington Service Center of the Deaf and Hard of Hearing


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on July 29, 2009, 05:05:31 PM
Okay DD, I am beginning this new thread.  I should've probably brought it over from Lindsey part 2, but I am going to throw a whole bunch of stuff out here. 

Let's start with Adam's address in Roy.  Let's assume he had a contact there.  I think he did.  I have a strong reason to believe that there's an association between Adam Campbell and this Karl Steven Goering.

This Karl Steven Goering character, an SO, operating under the radar in Kennewick right now. Non-Compliant.  A Karl S. Goering was a detective in Kennewick too, and I am suspecting that it was possibly his father.   I have a whole bunch of stuff on Karl S. Junior that I posted on Lindsey part 2.  Okay, now that Pierce is in McCleary, that brings us back to Roy, cause Roy is in that county.  Stay with me here, I Will get this out.  Just want to post some stats here again on Karl junior.   Address:  6102 Road 68, Kennewick, WaThis should be Pasco Washington.  I have the phone number.  Easy to find.  He married Theresa Ann Forzaglia on Dec 18, 2000.  Child support issues same year.  He's got MS page member #281491802.  Nothing there but a monkey playing a guitar (Is this a slam?)  Another MS member #364234353 with lots and lots of photos.  Born June 18, 1973.  Resembles Adam Lee Campbell, possibly.  Then he's got that fubar page too.  It's in the other thread.  Okay, this is background.

I work in reverse a lot of times.  So, I started in Roy and found that a Dwight Edward Goering used to live in Roy.  He lives in Moses Lake currently.  Address:  1025 Virginia St.  Moses Lake, Wa.  98837.  I have phone too but it's easy to find.  He's on MyLife (formerly Classmates.com I think).  Born September 4, 1962.  Wife Desiree lives at same address.  There's a Donna too, but I believe she lives elsewhere in Washington now. 

On MyLife, Dwight has three friends, one of whom is Theresa Goering in Kennewick, Karl S. Goering Jr's current wife. 

So, this may be Adam's connection from Roy in a round-about way.  I still need to do some snooping around in Roy. 

But, when all is said and done, I think we will find a string of suspects and a string of missing children.  Now, I haven't done this yet, but if we just CONSIDER the possibility that there's a connection here, perhaps the Code (such as it is) may make sense.  I don't know cause I haven't looked at it myself in while.  Do you have the whole message handy to post here again?

Anyway, just more stuff to consider.   :smt120


I want to make a correction to my last post.  the current address for Karl Steven Goering Jr. is in Pasco, Washington.  Not Kennewick, just in case LE of some description in this area wants to pay this guy a visit.

maybe we need to start an adam campbell thread on this board.  I have one over on mine but we need one here to discuss with everyone here, I can organize over there and link back to here as we go. 

I started a thread here
Adam Lee Campbell Message & Connections ?
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=5816.new#new


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: JessStar on July 29, 2009, 05:05:49 PM
Now I did it, DD!   ::MonkeyLaugh::

SWSCDHH is the Southeastern Washington Service Center of the Deaf and Hard of Hearing


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on July 29, 2009, 05:08:53 PM
DD - is this it?  Found this in last thread:
Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #2
Post by: JessStar on July 22, 2009, 12:23:19 PM
The following information was obtained from public records:

CAMPBELL, ADAM L
(DOB: 02/1978)
(Age: 31)


I bet that is it, did jessstar give an address with that, so I can be sure ... but she is usually "right on" with the dates connected to the addresses

I bet she did, I just cut the DOB - let me go back and see!

Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #2
Post by: JessStar on July 22, 2009, 12:23:19 PM
The following information was obtained from public records:

CAMPBELL, ADAM L
(DOB: 02/1978)
(Age: 31)

7104 314TH ST S
ROY, WA 98580-9712
PIERCE COUNTY
(03/2008-Current)   

708 W HOME AVE APT 4
SELAH, WA 98942-1007
YAKIMA COUNTY
(01/2009-01/2009)   

PO BOX 1563
YAKIMA, WA 98907-1563
YAKIMA COUNTY
(08/2005-04/2008)   

PO BOX 1209
YAKIMA, WA 98907-1209
YAKIMA COUNTY
(01/2008-01/2008)   

605 N 3RD ST APT 1
YAKIMA, WA 98901-2227
YAKIMA COUNTY
(07/2004-10/2005)   

807 S 14TH ST
YAKIMA, WA 98901-3345
YAKIMA COUNTY
(09/2002-06/2005)   

108 S 7TH AVE APT 3
YAKIMA, WA 98902-3374
YAKIMA COUNTY
(07/2002-09/2002)   

124 N 5TH AVE
PASCO, WA 99301-5512
FRANKLIN COUNTY
(04/2002-04/2002)
Social Services Facility   

505 EUCLID ST # 2
GRANDVIEW, WA 98930-1522
YAKIMA COUNTY
(12/2001-04/2002)   

720 N 15TH AVE APT 209
YAKIMA, WA 98902-1964
YAKIMA COUNTY
(10/2001-12/2001) 

211 S NACHES AVE APT 209
YAKIMA, WA 98901-4720
YAKIMA COUNTY
(07/2000-07/2000)   

109 E PHILLIPS RD BLDG E
LIND, WA 99341-9755
ADAMS COUNTY
(03/2000-03/2000)
 
 

I'm pretty sure this is the right Adam Campbell.  He is hearing impaired.  And the 124 N. 5th Avenue, Pasco, WA address comes up as:

      SEWSCDHH Inc

            124 N 5th Ave

            Pasco                       WA     99301

            (509) 543-9644

            -Interpreter Services for Hearing Impaired Employees


yes that would be him. 


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: KimC on July 29, 2009, 05:10:59 PM
Okay DD, I am beginning this new thread.  I should've probably brought it over from Lindsey part 2, but I am going to throw a whole bunch of stuff out here. 

Let's start with Adam's address in Roy.  Let's assume he had a contact there.  I think he did.  I have a strong reason to believe that there's an association between Adam Campbell and this Karl Steven Goering.

This Karl Steven Goering character, an SO, operating under the radar in Kennewick right now. Non-Compliant.  A Karl S. Goering was a detective in Kennewick too, and I am suspecting that it was possibly his father.   I have a whole bunch of stuff on Karl S. Junior that I posted on Lindsey part 2.  Okay, now that Pierce is in McCleary, that brings us back to Roy, cause Roy is in that county.  Stay with me here, I Will get this out.  Just want to post some stats here again on Karl junior.   Address:  6102 Road 68, Kennewick, WaThis should be Pasco Washington.  I have the phone number.  Easy to find.  He married Theresa Ann Forzaglia on Dec 18, 2000.  Child support issues same year.  He's got MS page member #281491802.  Nothing there but a monkey playing a guitar (Is this a slam?)  Another MS member #364234353 with lots and lots of photos.  Born June 18, 1973.  Resembles Adam Lee Campbell, possibly.  Then he's got that fubar page too.  It's in the other thread.  Okay, this is background.

I work in reverse a lot of times.  So, I started in Roy and found that a Dwight Edward Goering used to live in Roy.  He lives in Moses Lake currently.  Address:  1025 Virginia St.  Moses Lake, Wa.  98837.  I have phone too but it's easy to find.  He's on MyLife (formerly Classmates.com I think).  Born September 4, 1962.  Wife Desiree lives at same address.  There's a Donna too, but I believe she lives elsewhere in Washington now. 

On MyLife, Dwight has three friends, one of whom is Theresa Goering in Kennewick, Karl S. Goering Jr's current wife. 

So, this may be Adam's connection from Roy in a round-about way.  I still need to do some snooping around in Roy. 

But, when all is said and done, I think we will find a string of suspects and a string of missing children.  Now, I haven't done this yet, but if we just CONSIDER the possibility that there's a connection here, perhaps the Code (such as it is) may make sense.  I don't know cause I haven't looked at it myself in while.  Do you have the whole message handy to post here again?

Anyway, just more stuff to consider.   :smt120


I want to make a correction to my last post.  the current address for Karl Steven Goering Jr. is in Pasco, Washington.  Not Kennewick, just in case LE of some description in this area wants to pay this guy a visit.

And here's all the information on Dwight Edward Goering and all the places he's lived. 

1      Dwight Goering
Dwight E Goering
Dwight Ed Goering
Dwight Edward Goering
Dwight E Georing
   46
   Address Available    Phone Available    Moses Lake, WA
Roy, WA
Graham, WA
Spanaway, WA
Tahuya, WA
Tacoma, WA
Eatonville, WA
Kennewick, WA
Grandview, WA
   Desiree Lynne Goering
Desiree L Goering
Dwight Edward Goering


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on July 29, 2009, 05:15:34 PM
Now I did it, DD!   ::MonkeyLaugh::

SWSCDHH is the Southeastern Washington Service Center of the Deaf and Hard of Hearing

oh hmmmm, so he has that address to them connected to HIM?  is that what this is?  ::MonkeyDevil::


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: A_News_Junkie_Monkey on July 29, 2009, 05:15:52 PM
Now I did it, DD!   ::MonkeyLaugh::

SWSCDHH is the Southeastern Washington Service Center of the Deaf and Hard of Hearing

When I have something to add, I get excited and often don't think about finding the [/quote] and making sure I click behind it !  For anyone new, when you hit reply find this it will always be the last words typed already - click behind it and hit enter twice then type.  But, we all get in the quote boxes no matter how long we have been here.

Jess - where did you find that info of yours I posted?   Can you get a day for his DOB?  Is there one listed on any of the myspace or other social networking sites?


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on July 29, 2009, 05:46:46 PM

 


I'm pretty sure this is the right Adam Campbell.  He is hearing impaired.  And the 124 N. 5th Avenue, Pasco, WA address comes up as:

      SEWSCDHH Inc

            124 N 5th Ave

            Pasco                       WA     99301

            (509) 543-9644

            -Interpreter Services for Hearing Impaired Employees



so what does this really mean, why is this address attached to him though, because he uses it?  as a way to go through to talk to him? or does he work there?


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on July 29, 2009, 05:48:13 PM
kim ----

do you have the actuall addresses for Karl Steven Goering

if not I will go get them, maybe they have the exact same address at some point? 

trying to go through all your stuff and get familiar with it etc


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on July 29, 2009, 05:54:37 PM
okay I got most of my info up on the new thread

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=5816.new#new


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on July 29, 2009, 06:03:51 PM
kimc...

agree there very well could be many missing children tied to all of this.  it might very well be this is what adam was trying to say. I don't know yet, I am still trying to make sense out of what he is saying.

he might know a heck of a lot more than we ever imagine


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on July 29, 2009, 06:38:21 PM
Name: Karl Steven Goering
Address: 505 S Olyumpia Mr, Kennewick, Washington 99336-0101 (1993)


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on July 29, 2009, 06:38:47 PM
Name: Karl S Goering
Address: 4729 W Clearwater, Kennewick, Washington 99336-0101 (1993


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on July 29, 2009, 06:39:31 PM
Name: Karl S Goering
Birth Date: 1962
Address: 9622 Maple Ln, Kennewick, Washington 99336-0501 (1993)
[823 S Everett, Kennewick, Washington 99336-0101 (1993)] 


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on July 29, 2009, 06:40:30 PM
so far I am not finding anything connecting to adam.  other than dwight has a Roy address. 
but that just means I haven't found anything, does not mean there isn't one.  still lookig


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: KarmaRoundUp on July 29, 2009, 07:14:09 PM
Reward produces wave of new tips in Baum case
BY JACOB JONES - The Daily World
Wednesday, July 29, 2009 12:12 PM PDT


Searchers returned to the streets of McCleary under a brutal sun Tuesday to follow-up on new leads in the hunt for 11-year-old Lindsey Baum.

Grays Harbor Undersheriff Rick Scott said about 25 officers and searchers with dogs braved near-record high temperatures to re-canvas areas of town.

“We’re out here sweating our guts out,” Scott said late Tuesday.

A recent $6,000 reward for information in the missing girl’s case has produced a new wave of tips for investigators to check out, Scott said. Surrounding law enforcement agencies including the Aberdeen Police Department, and Pierce and Thurston sheriff’s offices sent officers to help perform follow-up searches and interviews.

“We decided we’d try to reach out a bit,” Scott said.

About six core investigators have been leading the effort to find Lindsey, who disappeared while walking a few short blocks home on June 26. The detectives have found no evidence explaining the 4-foot-9, brown-haired girl’s disappearance, but they continue sorting through thousands of tips.

“I don’t want information sitting,” Scott said, explaining extra officers are helping check out tips as soon as possible.

So far, detectives have not found any clues to send the investigation in a “new direction,” Scott said, but they continue to consider all possibilities.
 

 


Officers and volunteers knocked on doors throughout town Tuesday, asking new questions and trying to reach people missed in previous interviews, he said. Investigators still hope to find the one small piece of information that can move the case forward.

“We were just going around talking to people,” Scott said, adding, “everybody’s just kind of worn out from the heat.”

Two teams with cadaver search dogs also roamed the town seeking any new scents, he said, but the hot conditions limited the available scents and quickly wore out the dogs.

“The heat really is so stifling,” he said.

Scott said detectives and extra officers expect to follow up on new tips in town for at least the rest of the week.

He asked anyone with any potentially helpful information to call the tip line at 1-866-915-8299.

http://**/articles/2009/07/29/local_news/doc4a708a0adde28983338062.txt



Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: KarmaRoundUp on July 29, 2009, 07:15:12 PM
 ::MonkeySlide::  Hahaha!NEW!Monkey Slide!  ::MonkeySlide::


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on July 29, 2009, 07:20:50 PM
Reward produces wave of new tips in Baum case
BY JACOB JONES - The Daily World
Wednesday, July 29, 2009 12:12 PM PDT


Searchers returned to the streets of McCleary under a brutal sun Tuesday to follow-up on new leads in the hunt for 11-year-old Lindsey Baum.

Grays Harbor Undersheriff Rick Scott said about 25 officers and searchers with dogs braved near-record high temperatures to re-canvas areas of town.

“We’re out here sweating our guts out,” Scott said late Tuesday.

A recent $6,000 reward for information in the missing girl’s case has produced a new wave of tips for investigators to check out, Scott said. Surrounding law enforcement agencies including the Aberdeen Police Department, and Pierce and Thurston sheriff’s offices sent officers to help perform follow-up searches and interviews.

“We decided we’d try to reach out a bit,” Scott said.

About six core investigators have been leading the effort to find Lindsey, who disappeared while walking a few short blocks home on June 26. The detectives have found no evidence explaining the 4-foot-9, brown-haired girl’s disappearance, but they continue sorting through thousands of tips.

“I don’t want information sitting,” Scott said, explaining extra officers are helping check out tips as soon as possible.

So far, detectives have not found any clues to send the investigation in a “new direction,” Scott said, but they continue to consider all possibilities.
 

 


Officers and volunteers knocked on doors throughout town Tuesday, asking new questions and trying to reach people missed in previous interviews, he said. Investigators still hope to find the one small piece of information that can move the case forward.

“We were just going around talking to people,” Scott said, adding, “everybody’s just kind of worn out from the heat.”

Two teams with cadaver search dogs also roamed the town seeking any new scents, he said, but the hot conditions limited the available scents and quickly wore out the dogs.

“The heat really is so stifling,” he said.

Scott said detectives and extra officers expect to follow up on new tips in town for at least the rest of the week.

He asked anyone with any potentially helpful information to call the tip line at 1-866-915-8299.

http://**/articles/2009/07/29/local_news/doc4a708a0adde28983338062.txt



I am sorry but the more articles which try to explain what they are doing, the more ridiculous they sound.  It is just me or our their explanations just stupid


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Haddie McFaddies Mom on July 29, 2009, 07:25:45 PM
LovinLife ~ That's it!  That's the little guy and the exact question that's been nagging at my heart and mind and eats at me from the time I open my eyes in the morning, stays with me throughout the motions of the day, and until I close my eyes at night. 

Where is Lindsey? :gaah:

Where is Lindsey? :gaah:

Where is Lindsey? :gaah:

Thank You !  ::MonkeyAngel::

Where is Lindsey? :gaah:

xoxo


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on July 29, 2009, 07:36:28 PM
Ok, so they were doing a search yesterday. Does anyone know if they are searching in McCleary again today? Does anyone know if KaraK's home has been thoroughly searched? I know that it was said that Melissa's home had been searched. Have they gone to either place with cadaver dogs? Does anyone know?


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: mamacrazy30 on July 29, 2009, 07:37:02 PM
Reward produces wave of new tips in Baum case
BY JACOB JONES - The Daily World
Wednesday, July 29, 2009 12:12 PM PDT


Searchers returned to the streets of McCleary under a brutal sun Tuesday to follow-up on new leads in the hunt for 11-year-old Lindsey Baum.

Grays Harbor Undersheriff Rick Scott said about 25 officers and searchers with dogs braved near-record high temperatures to re-canvas areas of town.

“We’re out here sweating our guts out,” Scott said late Tuesday.

A recent $6,000 reward for information in the missing girl’s case has produced a new wave of tips for investigators to check out, Scott said. Surrounding law enforcement agencies including the Aberdeen Police Department, and Pierce and Thurston sheriff’s offices sent officers to help perform follow-up searches and interviews.

“We decided we’d try to reach out a bit,” Scott said.

About six core investigators have been leading the effort to find Lindsey, who disappeared while walking a few short blocks home on June 26. The detectives have found no evidence explaining the 4-foot-9, brown-haired girl’s disappearance, but they continue sorting through thousands of tips.

“I don’t want information sitting,” Scott said, explaining extra officers are helping check out tips as soon as possible.

So far, detectives have not found any clues to send the investigation in a “new direction,” Scott said, but they continue to consider all possibilities.
 

 


Officers and volunteers knocked on doors throughout town Tuesday, asking new questions and trying to reach people missed in previous interviews, he said. Investigators still hope to find the one small piece of information that can move the case forward.

“We were just going around talking to people,” Scott said, adding, “everybody’s just kind of worn out from the heat.”

Two teams with cadaver search dogs also roamed the town seeking any new scents, he said, but the hot conditions limited the available scents and quickly wore out the dogs.

“The heat really is so stifling,” he said.

Scott said detectives and extra officers expect to follow up on new tips in town for at least the rest of the week.

He asked anyone with any potentially helpful information to call the tip line at 1-866-915-8299.

http://**/articles/2009/07/29/local_news/doc4a708a0adde28983338062.txt



I am sorry but the more articles which try to explain what they are doing, the more ridiculous they sound.  It is just me or our their explanations just stupid
its not just you


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on July 29, 2009, 07:41:05 PM


I am sorry but the more articles which try to explain what they are doing, the more ridiculous they sound.  It is just me or our their explanations just stupid

I don't think the heat was quite as stifling in June as it is now. JMO


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on July 29, 2009, 07:42:52 PM


I am sorry but the more articles which try to explain what they are doing, the more ridiculous they sound.  It is just me or our their explanations just stupid

I don't think the heat was quite as stifling in June as it is now. JMO

well I think the heat would make cadaver scent more detectable, not less?


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on July 29, 2009, 07:44:22 PM
and they brought in all these other agencies so tips were not just sitting around?  and when did they get all these tips, JUST NOW all at the same time?  and because of the $6000.00 reward?  and it came out when?  and all the tips come NOW? 

sounds crazy to me


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: mamacrazy30 on July 29, 2009, 07:44:52 PM
if Lindsey has been in McCleary the entire time...and now that whoever has had her, has had a month with her,...if she is still in McCleary, and now whoever has had her knows that the police are going door to door.....is it far fetched to say that she may not be in McCleary now....like today or yesterday moved????


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: mamacrazy30 on July 29, 2009, 07:46:46 PM
maybe this new search for Lindsey is really a call of get your azz out of dodge they're on to ya?


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on July 29, 2009, 07:47:00 PM
maybe I just tear things apart too much LOL

but my personal opinion is they are doing something they are not saying and they are trying to say they are doing it for other reasons because they don't want people to know.  All that if fine, but at least make it believeable  ::MonkeyDevil::


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: KimC on July 29, 2009, 07:48:27 PM
so far I am not finding anything connecting to adam.  other than dwight has a Roy address. 
but that just means I haven't found anything, does not mean there isn't one.  still lookig

Yes, still looking, too, and trying to connect the dots.  In looking at every Goering and family, I came across this interesting site.  Since Adam seems to be familiar with where to go for help, thought maybe he wandered in one of these offices of the state.  It's the 2007 State of Washington Department of Social and Health Services.  And this particular website is a complete listing of all their employees.  And alphabetical too.  There are three Goerings listed and I have looked at all of them.  Just haven't connected the dots yet.  But here's the website in case some interesting names pop out at you.  2007 Arg, out of date, but these are state jobs so you might have people working there for many, many years.

http://lbloom.net/dshs07.html (http://lbloom.net/dshs07.html)



Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: mamacrazy30 on July 29, 2009, 07:52:09 PM
maybe I just tear things apart too much LOL

but my personal opinion is they are doing something they are not saying and they are trying to say they are doing it for other reasons because they don't want people to know.  All that if fine, but at least make it believeable  ::MonkeyDevil::
i feel ya  ::MonkeySlide:: ::MonkeyDevil::


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on July 29, 2009, 07:53:09 PM
if Lindsey has been in McCleary the entire time...and now that whoever has had her, has had a month with her,...if she is still in McCleary, and now whoever has had her knows that the police are going door to door.....is it far fetched to say that she may not be in McCleary now....like today or yesterday moved????

I am wondering if they have a suspect etc, and are going around showing that person's photo to people to see if anyone saw this person around anywhere? ??



Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: mamacrazy30 on July 29, 2009, 07:54:49 PM
here is a thought...what if they have found lindsey, or they know where she is, but it would compromise someone/something and so now they are searching to 'discover her' when in fact they knew what was up the entire time..... ::MonkeyEek::


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: mamacrazy30 on July 29, 2009, 07:56:26 PM
if Lindsey has been in McCleary the entire time...and now that whoever has had her, has had a month with her,...if she is still in McCleary, and now whoever has had her knows that the police are going door to door.....is it far fetched to say that she may not be in McCleary now....like today or yesterday moved????

I am wondering if they have a suspect etc, and are going around showing that person's photo to people to see if anyone saw this person around anywhere? ??


maybe???  i don't know, all i know is that it is hot in McCleary wa this time of year.


















Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: no rose colored glasses on July 29, 2009, 08:02:19 PM
and they brought in all these other agencies so tips were not just sitting around?  and when did they get all these tips, JUST NOW all at the same time?  and because of the $6000.00 reward?  and it came out when?  and all the tips come NOW? 

sounds crazy to me
Sounds crazy to me also, and besides $6,000 reward is really not that much.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on July 29, 2009, 08:22:46 PM
and they brought in all these other agencies so tips were not just sitting around?  and when did they get all these tips, JUST NOW all at the same time?  and because of the $6000.00 reward?  and it came out when?  and all the tips come NOW? 

sounds crazy to me
Sounds crazy to me also, and besides $6,000 reward is really not that much.

I forget what date the reward was offered, but it has been over a week ago, so they are saying everyone with tips waited a week after the reward to give their tips?  now that makes no sense, so this tells me it is not the reward that brought in the tips and they bring in all the agencies so the tips don't sit there(their reason for the different agencies)

well, sorry it has been a week they would have sit there then, so that makes now sense.  that reward is not what brought in tips.  get real.  so Everyone sees the reward and waits over a week to call all at once hahahahaha   so they have to hurry up and go get all these agencies to help.. sure


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: JessStar on July 29, 2009, 08:30:25 PM
Sorry I haven't had a chance to answer those questions earlier. First, with regard to the address for AC, typically the report I retrieve only reports addresses that were used or reported as being a residence. That's not to say AC lived there-it just means he reported it at one point as being his residence. Second, unfortunately none of the reports how the DAY of birth, only the month and year.

 


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: A_News_Junkie_Monkey on July 29, 2009, 08:38:38 PM
Sorry I haven't had a chance to answer those questions earlier. First, with regard to the address for AC, typically the report I retrieve only reports addresses that were used or reported as being a residence. That's not to say AC lived there-it just means he reported it at one point as being his residence. Second, unfortunately none of the reports how the DAY of birth, only the month and year.

 

Thanks Jess.  Is the report you use a paid type search or one you can share? 


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: AZSunny on July 29, 2009, 08:50:44 PM
and they brought in all these other agencies so tips were not just sitting around?  and when did they get all these tips, JUST NOW all at the same time?  and because of the $6000.00 reward?  and it came out when?  and all the tips come NOW? 

sounds crazy to me

We were just going around talking to people,” Scott said, adding, “everybody’s just kind of worn out from the heat.”

Well, that don't cut it sheriff.     He sounds like a beverly hillbilly.



Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: pink angel on July 29, 2009, 08:57:38 PM
To be fair about the heat. The WA area has been experiencing a heatwave the past few days with temps soaring over 100 degrees.

It's tough to be out in that kind of heat any length of time. I don't care if you are cops or dogs. Even in a bathing suit it would be hard.



Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: JessStar on July 29, 2009, 08:58:34 PM
It's a paid service.  The info I posted is gleaned directly from the report.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on July 29, 2009, 09:06:56 PM
Sorry I haven't had a chance to answer those questions earlier. First, with regard to the address for AC, typically the report I retrieve only reports addresses that were used or reported as being a residence. That's not to say AC lived there-it just means he reported it at one point as being his residence. Second, unfortunately none of the reports how the DAY of birth, only the month and year.

 

thanks jessstar..

well I can't find the DAY either, oh well I guess the month and year will work. 

I am wondering on the interpreter thing if he gives that address and phone number to get ahold of him so if he calls there to get the message it will be on some machine which interprets for him.  or... he could have given that as an address and phone number to get ahold of him, so he can understand his messages?  I don't know

or he just said he lived there LOL 

maybe he works there? or did. 



Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on July 29, 2009, 09:09:55 PM
To be fair about the heat. The WA area has been experiencing a heatwave the past few days with temps soaring over 100 degrees.

It's tough to be out in that kind of heat any length of time. I don't care if you are cops or dogs. Even in a bathing suit it would be hard.



I know the heat is awful for anyone to be in and I am a total dog lover and would never want to see a dog out in that heat... but that is not what I am saying. 

they said the heat was making the scent hard to detect the cadaver scent.  that can't be true.  heat helps detect cadaver scent.  that is the point I was laughing about.  but I guess I just pick apart everything too much,  I just thought that was a crazy statement. 

but I do full well agree, the heat would be awful to be out in.  I feel badly for the people out in it and the dogs, especially the dogs. 


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: AZSunny on July 29, 2009, 09:12:34 PM
To be fair about the heat. The WA area has been experiencing a heatwave the past few days with temps soaring over 100 degrees.

It's tough to be out in that kind of heat any length of time. I don't care if you are cops or dogs. Even in a bathing suit it would be hard.



I live in Arizona, it was 111 yesterday, and 108 today. I understand being outside in the heat, but seattle has 45% humidlity on top of that!  I have 5 children in the Seattle area, and my brother. Only one has air conditioning.  Boy are they moaning!  I told them I was going to start charging them AZ state tax if their weather continued. 


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: AZSunny on July 29, 2009, 09:16:03 PM
To be fair about the heat. The WA area has been experiencing a heatwave the past few days with temps soaring over 100 degrees.

It's tough to be out in that kind of heat any length of time. I don't care if you are cops or dogs. Even in a bathing suit it would be hard.



I know the heat is awful for anyone to be in and I am a total dog lover and would never want to see a dog out in that heat... but that is not what I am saying. 

they said the heat was making the scent hard to detect the cadaver scent.  that can't be true.  heat helps detect cadaver scent.  that is the point I was laughing about.  but I guess I just pick apart everything too much,  I just thought that was a crazy statement. 

but I do full well agree, the heat would be awful to be out in.  I feel badly for the people out in it and the dogs, especially the dogs. 

DD, just to insert an OT, I have 3 Bichons, and they go to the door to go out, I open the door and then just stare at me 'don't make me go out there!' One goes out, does his duty and jumps in the pool and before i can catch him has run throught the family room and kitchen and back to his crate, which is where he knows to go is he is wet.  too funny.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on July 29, 2009, 09:23:04 PM
hehe az sunny...

I know the routine exactly LOL  only mine don't get in a crate, they jump in the bed LOL


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: mamacrazy30 on July 29, 2009, 09:24:11 PM
To be fair about the heat. The WA area has been experiencing a heatwave the past few days with temps soaring over 100 degrees.

It's tough to be out in that kind of heat any length of time. I don't care if you are cops or dogs. Even in a bathing suit it would be hard.



I know the heat is awful for anyone to be in and I am a total dog lover and would never want to see a dog out in that heat... but that is not what I am saying. 

they said the heat was making the scent hard to detect the cadaver scent.  that can't be true.  heat helps detect cadaver scent.  that is the point I was laughing about.  but I guess I just pick apart everything too much,  I just thought that was a crazy statement. 

but I do full well agree, the heat would be awful to be out in.  I feel badly for the people out in it and the dogs, especially the dogs. 
do you think they are sending the dogs out there needlessly...like a show of ???  sorry..i expect the worst...always


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: JessStar on July 29, 2009, 09:28:43 PM
No, they have a reason to send them out. I'm sure of that.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: AZSunny on July 29, 2009, 09:31:32 PM
To be fair about the heat. The WA area has been experiencing a heatwave the past few days with temps soaring over 100 degrees.

It's tough to be out in that kind of heat any length of time. I don't care if you are cops or dogs. Even in a bathing suit it would be hard.



I know the heat is awful for anyone to be in and I am a total dog lover and would never want to see a dog out in that heat... but that is not what I am saying. 

they said the heat was making the scent hard to detect the cadaver scent.  that can't be true.  heat helps detect cadaver scent.  that is the point I was laughing about.  but I guess I just pick apart everything too much,  I just thought that was a crazy statement. 

but I do full well agree, the heat would be awful to be out in.  I feel badly for the people out in it and the dogs, especially the dogs. 
do you think they are sending the dogs out there needlessly...like a show of ???  sorry..i expect the worst...always

Why would you think that any dog handler  would agree to send their dogs out "needlessly" to search in over 100 degree weather?  They would not do it for show, I assure you.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: AZSunny on July 29, 2009, 09:37:33 PM
No, they have a reason to send them out. I'm sure of that.
::MonkeyRoll::


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on July 29, 2009, 09:41:21 PM
oh I believe they have a very good reason to have them out there, I just think they are not saying the real reasons they are doing what they are doing or why those other offices are out there. 

I suspect they have a suspect and are trying to find witnesses who might have seen this person/persons in the area... just a guess of mine. 

they might even have the dogs tracking the perp and not lindsey.  to see if the perp was in the area if they have a suspect they can use the scent to track. 

I don't know, just possibilities. 

pierce county being in there really makes me wonder.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: AZSunny on July 29, 2009, 09:43:41 PM
oh I believe they have a very good reason to have them out there, I just think they are not saying the real reasons they are doing what they are doing or why those other offices are out there. 

I suspect they have a suspect and are trying to find witnesses who might have seen this person/persons in the area... just a guess of mine. 

they might even have the dogs tracking the perp and not lindsey.  to see if the perp was in the area if they have a suspect they can use the scent to track. 

I don't know, just possibilities. 

pierce county being in there really makes me wonder.

Didn't they also say Thurston County and I believe Aberdeen?


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on July 29, 2009, 09:57:33 PM
oh I believe they have a very good reason to have them out there, I just think they are not saying the real reasons they are doing what they are doing or why those other offices are out there. 

I suspect they have a suspect and are trying to find witnesses who might have seen this person/persons in the area... just a guess of mine. 

they might even have the dogs tracking the perp and not lindsey.  to see if the perp was in the area if they have a suspect they can use the scent to track. 

I don't know, just possibilities. 

pierce county being in there really makes me wonder.

Didn't they also say Thurston County and I believe Aberdeen?

they said aberdeen I read, I forget if thurston, I was just zooming in on pierce. 

aberdeen and pierce caught my eye. 


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: mamacrazy30 on July 29, 2009, 10:01:00 PM
To be fair about the heat. The WA area has been experiencing a heatwave the past few days with temps soaring over 100 degrees.

It's tough to be out in that kind of heat any length of time. I don't care if you are cops or dogs. Even in a bathing suit it would be hard.



I know the heat is awful for anyone to be in and I am a total dog lover and would never want to see a dog out in that heat... but that is not what I am saying. 

they said the heat was making the scent hard to detect the cadaver scent.  that can't be true.  heat helps detect cadaver scent.  that is the point I was laughing about.  but I guess I just pick apart everything too much,  I just thought that was a crazy statement. 

but I do full well agree, the heat would be awful to be out in.  I feel badly for the people out in it and the dogs, especially the dogs. 
do you think they are sending the dogs out there needlessly...like a show of ???  sorry..i expect the worst...always

Why would you think that any dog handler  would agree to send their dogs out "needlessly" to search in over 100 degree weather?  They would not do it for show, I assure you.
i don't own search and rescue dogs, but i don't know that if you do and le calls on you for help that you really have a choice....maybe a smarter monkey than i can answer....


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: pink angel on July 29, 2009, 10:02:22 PM
oh I believe they have a very good reason to have them out there, I just think they are not saying the real reasons they are doing what they are doing or why those other offices are out there. 

I suspect they have a suspect and are trying to find witnesses who might have seen this person/persons in the area... just a guess of mine. 

they might even have the dogs tracking the perp and not lindsey.  to see if the perp was in the area if they have a suspect they can use the scent to track. 

I don't know, just possibilities. 

pierce county being in there really makes me wonder.

Didn't they also say Thurston County and I believe Aberdeen?



Several agencies, including the FBI, Crime Stoppers and the Pierce County Sheriff's Office, are assisting in the search.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,535201,00.html?test=latestnews



Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: pink angel on July 29, 2009, 10:05:17 PM
oh I believe they have a very good reason to have them out there, I just think they are not saying the real reasons they are doing what they are doing or why those other offices are out there. 

I suspect they have a suspect and are trying to find witnesses who might have seen this person/persons in the area... just a guess of mine. 

they might even have the dogs tracking the perp and not lindsey.  to see if the perp was in the area if they have a suspect they can use the scent to track. 

I don't know, just possibilities. 

pierce county being in there really makes me wonder.

Didn't they also say Thurston County and I believe Aberdeen?



Several agencies, including the FBI, Crime Stoppers and the Pierce County Sheriff's Office, are assisting in the search.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,535201,00.html?test=latestnews




Grays Harbor County Undersheriff Richard Scott told Q13 FOX News that they recently received quite a few tips, so they checked them out on Tuesday with the help of several agencies including the FBI, Aberdeen Police, Crime Stoppers and Thurston, Mason and Pierce County Sheriff's Offices. Pierce County Search & Rescue dogs also helped in the search.


http://www.q13fox.com/news/kcpq-072809-mccleary,0,4668836.story

This is a girl with no means, no money, and no true opportunity to leave. We have nothing specifically that is pointing us in any direction that is going to allow us to rule out any scenario.... this may be a worst case scenario criminal investigation involving a predator or predatory behavior."


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: mamacrazy30 on July 29, 2009, 10:10:56 PM
Quote
i don't own search and rescue dogs, but i don't know that if you do and le calls on you for help that you really have a choice....maybe a smarter monkey than i can answer....


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: rebelgirl901 on July 29, 2009, 10:27:01 PM
if Lindsey has indeed been the Mcleary area the entire time, and if now they are really starting to search the area, would she still be there now?  who ever has had her Has had her for a month... ::MonkeyNoNo::


Yes it is possible she has been in McCleary the whole time. I think that may be the reason some have not been very helpful in the searches or in providing information to L.E.  Somebody in that town knows what happened to Lindsey.  JMO
so now that they know the heat is on, you think they would still have her in McCleary?

If they are really going door to door & have the search dogs out, then I think they believe she is still in McCleary.   I don't know what to think anymore, there is so much we aren't being told.  I do feel that someone in that town knows where Lindsey is or at least what happened to her. I want so much for them to find Lindsey alive & bring her home but, I just have a bad feeling in the pit of my stomach.  God please let me be wrong about this.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: mamacrazy30 on July 29, 2009, 10:35:36 PM
sorry ya'll the 'new' search sounds like a tip-off to me..maybe i'm jaded. ::MonkeyNoNo::


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: JessStar on July 29, 2009, 10:38:17 PM
You're certainly entitled to feel that way mamacrazy. But just think about it for a second- that would be one heck of a big conspiracy if it were a "staged" search intended as a tip-off.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: klaasend on July 29, 2009, 10:40:10 PM
To be fair about the heat. The WA area has been experiencing a heatwave the past few days with temps soaring over 100 degrees.

It's tough to be out in that kind of heat any length of time. I don't care if you are cops or dogs. Even in a bathing suit it would be hard.



I know the heat is awful for anyone to be in and I am a total dog lover and would never want to see a dog out in that heat... but that is not what I am saying. 

they said the heat was making the scent hard to detect the cadaver scent.  that can't be true.  heat helps detect cadaver scent.  that is the point I was laughing about.  but I guess I just pick apart everything too much,  I just thought that was a crazy statement. 

but I do full well agree, the heat would be awful to be out in.  I feel badly for the people out in it and the dogs, especially the dogs. 
do you think they are sending the dogs out there needlessly...like a show of ???  sorry..i expect the worst...always

Why would you think that any dog handler  would agree to send their dogs out "needlessly" to search in over 100 degree weather?  They would not do it for show, I assure you.
i don't own search and rescue dogs, but i don't know that if you do and le calls on you for help that you really have a choice....maybe a smarter monkey than i can answer....

Mamacrazy - of course you have a choice.  I'm certain they have good reason to be out there in this heat. 


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: rebelgirl901 on July 29, 2009, 10:41:49 PM


I am sorry but the more articles which try to explain what they are doing, the more ridiculous they sound.  It is just me or our their explanations just stupid

I don't think the heat was quite as stifling in June as it is now. JMO

well I think the heat would make cadaver scent more detectable, not less?

I agree.  I don't know what they are saying.  It doesn't make any sense.   ::MonkeyConfused::   Sorry to be so blunt but cadaver dogs pick up the scent of decomposition, which I'm sure we all know would be worse in the heat. I don't get what they are doing?


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: mamacrazy30 on July 29, 2009, 10:53:33 PM
so why the 'big' search now..why now?  why have the basic searches not happened until now??  what is different NOW??  is it that people care? wonder?  i have all the respect in the world for le but why is it so different now than it was a month ago???  sorry to be blunt but if we took the stance that McCleary le took when Lindsey was first reported missing where would we be?  oh chit, and now ya'll will ride me on that...you have to understand...in the interest of ruling people out we have everyone as a suspect....i like to follow Janet..and i agree with most...but can some one tell me really...Who is not a suspect in this??


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: mamacrazy30 on July 29, 2009, 10:55:52 PM
so why the 'big' search now..why now?  why have the basic searches not happened until now??  what is different NOW??  is it that people care? wonder?  i have all the respect in the world for le but why is it so different now than it was a month ago???  sorry to be blunt but if we took the stance that McCleary le took when Lindsey was first reported missing where would we be?  oh chit, and now ya'll will ride me on that...you have to understand...in the interest of ruling people out we have everyone as a suspect....i like to follow Janet..and i agree with most...but can some one tell me really...Who is not a suspect in this??
oh what a mess i hope ya'll get the jist ::MonkeyConfused::


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: pink angel on July 29, 2009, 10:56:17 PM
I just think Officer Scott doesn't know a lot about searcher dogs, as was babbling. :)

I don't think he knows a lot about searching for missing children either, IMO. Thank goodness the FBI and other agencies are working on this.

Extreme heat or cold, will limit the amount of time the dog can work between rest breaks to as little as a few minutes. Both air temperature and ground temperature need to be considered. Remember the dog’s nose is working at ground level. Often the hottest parts of the day can be avoided; the dogs can work early in the morning, and in the late afternoon and evening.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: klaasend on July 29, 2009, 10:58:52 PM
so why the 'big' search now..why now?  why have the basic searches not happened until now??  what is different NOW??  is it that people care? wonder?  i have all the respect in the world for le but why is it so different now than it was a month ago???  sorry to be blunt but if we took the stance that McCleary le took when Lindsey was first reported missing where would we be?  oh chit, and now ya'll will ride me on that...you have to understand...in the interest of ruling people out we have everyone as a suspect....i like to follow Janet..and i agree with most...but can some one tell me really...Who is not a suspect in this??
oh what a mess i hope ya'll get the jist ::MonkeyConfused::

Mamacrazy - have you even been following this case?  This is not the first "real" search. 

This is the first article posted in the first thread of this case:

Small town baffled, alarmed at 10-year-old girl's disappearance

Story Updated: Jun 27, 2009 at 9:52 PM PDT
By Ray Lane and KOMO News Web Staff

MCCLEARY, Wash. - A wide-ranging search is under way for a 10-year-old girl who vanished Friday evening while walking home from a friend's house in this small town set amid forested hills west of Olympia. And now the entire town is worried.

Lindsey J. Baum was last seen at 9:15 p.m. Friday when she left her friend's home on Maple Street, where she had been visiting, said Dave Pimentel of the Grays Harbor County Sheriff's Office.

Lindsey was going to walk the four blocks to her home on Mommsen Road, which is roughly a 10-minute walk. But something happened in that short distance - Lindsey never arrived home.


 A volunteer goes door to door, passing out fliers about the missing girl.
"She hasn't been seen or heard from since," Pimentel said.

Her mother reported her missing at 10:50 p.m. And as the hours drag by with no sign of her, the girl's family fears she may have been taken by a stranger.

Search teams have been out looking for the girl, using bloodhounds. Sheriff's deputies, meanwhile, are calling people who live in the neighborhood and also are going door to door to see if anyone heard or saw anything.

Other searchers are combing the nearby woods on ATVs. Everyone is anxious for any sign of the missing girl.


Pimentel said Lindsey has never been a runaway. "We don't suspect that at this time," he said.

The girl's disappearance has shocked many residents of McCleary, population 1,550, where the biggest employer is a lumber mill that manufactures doors and people know their neighbors.

"We don't know what happened to her yet. All we know is she's missing, and we're taking every effort we can to try and locate her," he added.

Police say it appears Lindsey walked at least part of the way with home with friends, who didn't see anything unusual.

Melissa McCann, a family friend, said, "This is a small town. These things don't happen. And yet here they are. She comes from her friend's (house) a lot, so it doesn't make sense that she didn't show up at home. We're just baffled."

Pimentel said it's strange that nobody saw anything unusual.

"Such a small community like this - you can't do much in a town this size without everybody knowing about it," he said. "Everybody in town knows she's unaccounted for."

Lindsey's mother admits the 10-year old had been fighting with her brother in the moments before she was last seen, and that Lindsey is still upset about her parent's recent divorce.

But with every passing hour, there are mounting worries that the friendly girl who will talk with anybody is in serious trouble.

Lindsey was last seen wearing a gray hooded pullover sweatshirt, with blue jeans and black shoes. She stands about 4-feet-10-inches and weighs about 85 pounds.

Anyone with information is asked to call the Grays Harbor 911 Center at (800) 281-6944 or the McCleary Police Department at (360) 495-3107.

(http://media.komonews.com/images/090627_lindsey_baum_3.jpg)

http://www.komonews.com/news/49343017.html


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: JessStar on July 29, 2009, 11:00:08 PM
Well, we all can be weary of local LE, but the FBI and members of CrimeStoppers, who are assisting in the search, certainly are not suspects.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: JessStar on July 29, 2009, 11:06:58 PM
Those are great observations about the dogs, pinkangel. It reminded me that heat also causes a scent to rise straight up, as opposed to more linearly, which can make detection more difficult for the very reason you state- the dog's noses are close to gound level.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: JessStar on July 29, 2009, 11:09:19 PM
Those are great observations about the dogs, pinkangel. It reminded me that heat also causes a scent to rise straight up, as opposed to more linearly, which can make detection more difficult for the very reason you state- the dog's noses are close to gound level.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: mamacrazy30 on July 29, 2009, 11:14:30 PM
I just think Officer Scott doesn't know a lot about searcher dogs, as was babbling. :)

I don't think he knows a lot about searching for missing children either, IMO. Thank goodness the FBI and other agencies are working on this.

Extreme heat or cold, will limit the amount of time the dog can work between rest breaks to as little as a few minutes. Both air temperature and ground temperature need to be considered. Remember the dog’s nose is working at ground level. Often the hottest parts of the day can be avoided; the dogs can work early in the morning, and in the late afternoon and evening.
on one hand i'm glad he doesn't know a lot about missing children..i wish most communities never have this issue...on the other....
(a little piece of me, my step-father (now) is LE in ks and i've seen his folder on profiling and looking for terrorist and what have you...it was a (i don't know what you call it ...learning credits???  )  Really?? 


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: AZSunny on July 29, 2009, 11:29:31 PM
Those are great observations about the dogs, pinkangel. It reminded me that heat also causes a scent to rise straight up, as opposed to more linearly, which can make detection more difficult for the very reason you state- the dog's noses are close to gound level.


JessStar, I wonder how the humidity there, which i understand is at about 45% would impact this?


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Tamikosmom on July 29, 2009, 11:45:33 PM


This is the first article posted in the first thread of this case:

Small town baffled, alarmed at 10-year-old girl's disappearance

Story Updated: Jun 27, 2009 at 9:52 PM PDT
By Ray Lane and KOMO News Web Staff

MCCLEARY, Wash. - A wide-ranging search is under way for a 10-year-old girl who vanished Friday evening while walking home from a friend's house in this small town set amid forested hills west of Olympia. And now the entire town is worried.

Lindsey J. Baum was last seen at 9:15 p.m. Friday when she left her friend's home on Maple Street, where she had been visiting, said Dave Pimentel of the Grays Harbor County Sheriff's Office.

Lindsey was going to walk the four blocks to her home on Mommsen Road, which is roughly a 10-minute walk. But something happened in that short distance - Lindsey never arrived home.


 A volunteer goes door to door, passing out fliers about the missing girl.
"She hasn't been seen or heard from since," Pimentel said.

Her mother reported her missing at 10:50 p.m. And as the hours drag by with no sign of her, the girl's family fears she may have been taken by a stranger.

Search teams have been out looking for the girl, using bloodhounds. Sheriff's deputies, meanwhile, are calling people who live in the neighborhood and also are going door to door to see if anyone heard or saw anything.

Other searchers are combing the nearby woods on ATVs. Everyone is anxious for any sign of the missing girl.


Pimentel said Lindsey has never been a runaway. "We don't suspect that at this time," he said.

The girl's disappearance has shocked many residents of McCleary, population 1,550, where the biggest employer is a lumber mill that manufactures doors and people know their neighbors.

"We don't know what happened to her yet. All we know is she's missing, and we're taking every effort we can to try and locate her," he added.

Police say it appears Lindsey walked at least part of the way with home with friends, who didn't see anything unusual.

Melissa McCann, a family friend, said, "This is a small town. These things don't happen. And yet here they are. She comes from her friend's (house) a lot, so it doesn't make sense that she didn't show up at home. We're just baffled."

Pimentel said it's strange that nobody saw anything unusual.

"Such a small community like this - you can't do much in a town this size without everybody knowing about it," he said. "Everybody in town knows she's unaccounted for."

Lindsey's mother admits the 10-year old had been fighting with her brother in the moments before she was last seen, and that Lindsey is still upset about her parent's recent divorce.

But with every passing hour, there are mounting worries that the friendly girl who will talk with anybody is in serious trouble.

Lindsey was last seen wearing a gray hooded pullover sweatshirt, with blue jeans and black shoes. She stands about 4-feet-10-inches and weighs about 85 pounds.

Anyone with information is asked to call the Grays Harbor 911 Center at (800) 281-6944 or the McCleary Police Department at (360) 495-3107.

(http://media.komonews.com/images/090627_lindsey_baum_3.jpg)

http://www.komonews.com/news/49343017.html


THE TRACKING DOGS

Why was Lindsey's scent not picked up by these dogs.  Think about it ... the Maple Street route was taken by her both going to and coming from the Kampen/Williams residence.

Janet

++++++

KOMO News - June 28, 2009

A wide-ranging search was launched early Saturday in the town and the surrounding forests. The town was criss-crossed three times, but not a trace of Lindsey has been found. Even bloodhounds failed to pick up her scent.

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/49383897.html


The Daily World - July 2, 2009

Scott said authorities have run into several dead ends with almost no signs of the 4-foot-9, brown-haired girl, who was last spotted wearing a blue pullover shirt and blue jeans.

“I don’t know anything more than I knew Saturday afternoon,” he said, “but I’m not willing to admit that I know anything less.”

Scott said bloodhounds traced the route Lindsey took early on from the friend’s house to her own home, but didn’t find any scent. And in places where Lindsey once played — parks and by the creek — Lindsey’s scent has been vanishing.

The loss of scent could be a combination of factors — the heat on the sidewalk could have dissipated it for instance, he said.

http://**/articles/2009/07/02/local_news/doc4a4cf43c1b1dd881132403.txt


IN THE PROCESS OF ELIMINATION

One month too late!

In the process of elimination ... homes and property within that two block stretch from home where Lindsey was witnessed by a neighbour should have been searched at the getgo.  Residents should of been considered persons of interest and brought in for questioning ... not called by LE inquiring whether they saw anything.

In the process of elimination ... the home and property of Melissa Baum should have been search at the getgo.  When you consider the revealed dynamics encompassing Lindsey's brother ... Josh Baum should have been considered a person of interest and brought in for questioning.

In the process of elimination ... the home and property of Wayne Watnee should have been searched at the getgo.  When you consider where this man resides in relation to the the Baum residence and ... his connection to both Linsey and Josh ... this man should have been considered a person of interest and brought in for questioning.

Janet

++++++

Fresh eyes join search for missing girl
Story Published: Jul 28, 2009 at 5:55 PM PDT
Story Updated: Jul 28, 2009 at 6:15 PM PDT

 
By Luke Duecy  Watch the story MCCLEARY, Wash. -- It's been more than a month since Lindsey Baum disappeared while walking home from a friend's house, but investigators are not giving up.

On Tuesday, detectives from Pierce County joined the search, hoping to turn up new leads or tips in the case.

They searched homes, trash cans and crawl spaces near where Lindsey was last seen, and cadaver-sniffing dogs were also brought in to comb the area

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/51941307.html


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: mamacrazy30 on July 29, 2009, 11:59:15 PM
ya know,,  i guess i haven't been following this as much as ya'll....you've been so much more into it and can give it more energy than i can....god bless momkeys..pray for Lindsey


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: mamacrazy30 on July 30, 2009, 12:08:15 AM
so why the 'big' search now..why now?  why have the basic searches not happened until now??  what is different NOW??  is it that people care? wonder?  i have all the respect in the world for le but why is it so different now than it was a month ago???  sorry to be blunt but if we took the stance that McCleary le took when Lindsey was first reported missing where would we be?  oh chit, and now ya'll will ride me on that...you have to understand...in the interest of ruling people out we have everyone as a suspect....i like to follow Janet..and i agree with most...but can some one tell me really...Who is not a suspect in this??
oh what a mess i hope ya'll get the jist ::MonkeyConfused::

Mamacrazy - have you even been following this case?  This is not the first "real" search. 

This is the first article posted in the first thread of this case:

Small town baffled, alarmed at 10-year-old girl's disappearance

Story Updated: Jun 27, 2009 at 9:52 PM PDT
By Ray Lane and KOMO News Web Staff

MCCLEARY, Wash. - A wide-ranging search is under way for a 10-year-old girl who vanished Friday evening while walking home from a friend's house in this small town set amid forested hills west of Olympia. And now the entire town is worried.

Lindsey J. Baum was last seen at 9:15 p.m. Friday when she left her friend's home on Maple Street, where she had been visiting, said Dave Pimentel of the Grays Harbor County Sheriff's Office.

Lindsey was going to walk the four blocks to her home on Mommsen Road, which is roughly a 10-minute walk. But something happened in that short distance - Lindsey never arrived home.


 A volunteer goes door to door, passing out fliers about the missing girl.
"She hasn't been seen or heard from since," Pimentel said.

Her mother reported her missing at 10:50 p.m. And as the hours drag by with no sign of her, the girl's family fears she may have been taken by a stranger.

Search teams have been out looking for the girl, using bloodhounds. Sheriff's deputies, meanwhile, are calling people who live in the neighborhood and also are going door to door to see if anyone heard or saw anything.

Other searchers are combing the nearby woods on ATVs. Everyone is anxious for any sign of the missing girl.


Pimentel said Lindsey has never been a runaway. "We don't suspect that at this time," he said.

The girl's disappearance has shocked many residents of McCleary, population 1,550, where the biggest employer is a lumber mill that manufactures doors and people know their neighbors.

"We don't know what happened to her yet. All we know is she's missing, and we're taking every effort we can to try and locate her," he added.

Police say it appears Lindsey walked at least part of the way with home with friends, who didn't see anything unusual.

Melissa McCann, a family friend, said, "This is a small town. These things don't happen. And yet here they are. She comes from her friend's (house) a lot, so it doesn't make sense that she didn't show up at home. We're just baffled."

Pimentel said it's strange that nobody saw anything unusual.

"Such a small community like this - you can't do much in a town this size without everybody knowing about it," he said. "Everybody in town knows she's unaccounted for."

Lindsey's mother admits the 10-year old had been fighting with her brother in the moments before she was last seen, and that Lindsey is still upset about her parent's recent divorce.

But with every passing hour, there are mounting worries that the friendly girl who will talk with anybody is in serious trouble.

Lindsey was last seen wearing a gray hooded pullover sweatshirt, with blue jeans and black shoes. She stands about 4-feet-10-inches and weighs about 85 pounds.

Anyone with information is asked to call the Grays Harbor 911 Center at (800) 281-6944 or the McCleary Police Department at (360) 495-3107.

(http://media.komonews.com/images/090627_lindsey_baum_3.jpg)

http://www.komonews.com/news/49343017.html
i guess i haven't been following it AT all.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Northern Rose on July 30, 2009, 01:05:49 AM
MCCLEARY, Wash. -- It's been more than a month since Lindsey Baum disappeared while walking home from a friend's house, but investigators are not giving up.

On Tuesday, detectives from Pierce County joined the search, hoping to turn up new leads or tips in the case.

They searched homes, trash cans and crawl spaces near where Lindsey was last seen, and cadaver-sniffing dogs were also brought in to comb the area.

Everywhere you look in this small town there's a photo of Lindsey -- posted in store windows, hanging on the side of a truck parked on Main Street.

Everyone knows her name and everyone wants her to come home.

Spending time here you get the feeling the the girl's disappearance has changed the town. Instead of trading the usual neighborhood gossip, it seems all anyone talks about is what might have happened to Lindsey.

Kevin Pratt lives in McCleary and says he's always keeping his eyes open and thinking of the missing girl.

"Every time I go out in these wooded areas, any time I'm out anywhere I'm looking for anything for anything out of the ordinary."

The investigation into Lindsey's disappearance, which has involved multiple local, state and federal law enforcement agencies, has turned up nothing.

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/51941307.html


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Northern Rose on July 30, 2009, 01:07:08 AM
Reader Comment:

catriley123 84p ·  12 hours ago

This is so sad. I imagine the law enforcement people share info with each other, right? I read the newspaper from my old hometown in California, and there was an attempted abduction of a girl around that age, by a man in a white cargo van with Washington plates. I think it was in Santa Maria. As I said, I'd imagine the authorities send out bulletins nationally, so they'd know about this. The Washington plates thing caught my attention.

I hope they find her soon.

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/51941307.html


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on July 30, 2009, 01:15:21 AM
Reader Comment:

catriley123 84p ·  12 hours ago

This is so sad. I imagine the law enforcement people share info with each other, right? I read the newspaper from my old hometown in California, and there was an attempted abduction of a girl around that age, by a man in a white cargo van with Washington plates. I think it was in Santa Maria. As I said, I'd imagine the authorities send out bulletins nationally, so they'd know about this. The Washington plates thing caught my attention.

I hope they find her soon.

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/51941307.html


I hope they are paying attention to this, a VAN WITH WASHINGTON PLATES


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: klaasend on July 30, 2009, 01:26:02 AM
Reader Comment:

catriley123 84p ·  12 hours ago

This is so sad. I imagine the law enforcement people share info with each other, right? I read the newspaper from my old hometown in California, and there was an attempted abduction of a girl around that age, by a man in a white cargo van with Washington plates. I think it was in Santa Maria. As I said, I'd imagine the authorities send out bulletins nationally, so they'd know about this. The Washington plates thing caught my attention.

I hope they find her soon.

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/51941307.html

http://www.keyt.com/home/ticker/51341337.html

Man Tries To Lure Young Girl Into VanOriginally printed at http://www.keyt.com/home/ticker/51341337.html

Orcutt, CA-- Residents are being told to keep a lookout for a man driving a white van with possibly Washington State license plates.

Santa Barbara Sheriff deputies received a report Monday afternoon, that a man driving a white van near Hartnett and Cane tried to lure an 11-year-old girl into his van.

The girl said, the man pulled up to her and asked her to help him find a lost dog. The girl told sheriff officials that when she ran to a nearby home to call for help.

Detectives say the suspect is in his 50's and was driving a white cargo van with two rear windows covered by curtains.

If you have any information on a possible suspect, you are urged to call the Santa Barbara Sheriff's Department.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: klaasend on July 30, 2009, 01:29:05 AM
It's about a 16hour drive:

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub7/CalifMcCleary.jpg)


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: klaasend on July 30, 2009, 01:31:39 AM
http://www.ksby.com/Global/story.asp?S=10760272

(snipped)

"They were in a van with Washington plates and no side windows," said 12-year-old Cameron Carter.

12-year-old Skyler Stroop said, "They said he had like, gray hair, yeah. They said like, just to be aware."

Courtnee's close call is the talk of the neighborhood Tuesday.

Sheriff's deputies are looking for a white man in his mid-50s with salt and pepper hair. He is thought to be about 5 feet, 8 inches tall, weighing around 150 pounds. He was last seen driving a white cargo or minivan with Washington plates and no side windows, only a rear window with a curtain.

(snipped)


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: JessStar on July 30, 2009, 07:43:26 AM
Regarding the little girl from California and the white van with the Washington plates, that's a pretty significant "coincidence." Has someone passed that on to the tip line?


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: JessStar on July 30, 2009, 08:01:43 AM
Regarding the little girl from California and the white van with the Washington plates, that's a pretty significant "coincidence." Has someone passed that on to the tip line?

UPDATE:  I informed the tip line.  I just think that's too coincidental to ignore.  While it is some distance from McCleary, predators have traveled that far to meet who they thought were underage children in sting operations.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Leroy on July 30, 2009, 08:33:15 AM
Police chase leads on missing McCleary girl
Updated: 07/30/09   1:42 am
 
Searchers returned to the streets of McCleary under a brutal sun Tuesday to follow up on new leads in the hunt for 11-year-old Lindsey Baum, according to The Daily World of Aberdeen.

About 25 officers and searchers with dogs braved near-record temperatures to re-canvass areas of town, Grays Harbor Undersheriff Rick Scott said.

A recent $6,000 reward for information in the missing girl’s case has produced a new wave of tips, Scott said. Surrounding law enforcement agencies including the Thurston County Sheriff’s Office and the Aberdeen Police Department sent officers to help perform follow-up searches and interviews.

About six core investigators have been leading the effort to find Lindsey, who disappeared while walking a few blocks home June 26. The detectives have found no evidence explaining the 4-foot-9, brown-haired girl’s disappearance, but they continue sorting through thousands of tips.

Officers and volunteers knocked on doors throughout town Tuesday, asking new questions and trying to reach people missed in previous interviews, Scott said.

Two teams with cadaver search dogs also roamed the town, he said, but the hot conditions limited the available scents and quickly wore out the dogs.


Scott said detectives and extra officers expect to follow up on new tips in town for at least the rest of the week. He asked anyone with any potentially helpful information to call 866-915-8299.

http://www.thenewstribune.com/news/northwest/story/827963.html


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Leroy on July 30, 2009, 08:35:43 AM
OOPS - sorry....the above article in is regards to Tuesday's search....its early and i thought today was Wednesday!  So I guess there was no search yesterday.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: KarmaRoundUp on July 30, 2009, 08:39:37 AM
Reader Comment:

catriley123 84p ·  12 hours ago

This is so sad. I imagine the law enforcement people share info with each other, right? I read the newspaper from my old hometown in California, and there was an attempted abduction of a girl around that age, by a man in a white cargo van with Washington plates. I think it was in Santa Maria. As I said, I'd imagine the authorities send out bulletins nationally, so they'd know about this. The Washington plates thing caught my attention.

I hope they find her soon.

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/51941307.html

http://www.keyt.com/home/ticker/51341337.html

Man Tries To Lure Young Girl Into VanOriginally printed at http://www.keyt.com/home/ticker/51341337.html

Orcutt, CA-- Residents are being told to keep a lookout for a man driving a white van with possibly Washington State license plates.

Santa Barbara Sheriff deputies received a report Monday afternoon, that a man driving a white van near Hartnett and Cane tried to lure an 11-year-old girl into his van.

The girl said, the man pulled up to her and asked her to help him find a lost dog. The girl told sheriff officials that when she ran to a nearby home to call for help.

Detectives say the suspect is in his 50's and was driving a white cargo van with two rear windows covered by curtains.

If you have any information on a possible suspect, you are urged to call the Santa Barbara Sheriff's Department.

Thanks Klaas
Interesting that the white van guy was also looking for help in finding his lost dog.I sure hope that McCleary LE has fully investigated the man looking for help in finding his lost dog 2 days before Lindsey disappeared.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Tamikosmom on July 30, 2009, 10:13:48 AM
Police chase leads on missing McCleary girl
Updated: 07/30/09   1:42 am
 
Searchers returned to the streets of McCleary under a brutal sun Tuesday to follow up on new leads in the hunt for 11-year-old Lindsey Baum, according to The Daily World of Aberdeen.

About 25 officers and searchers with dogs braved near-record temperatures to re-canvass areas of town, Grays Harbor Undersheriff Rick Scott said.

A recent $6,000 reward for information in the missing girl’s case has produced a new wave of tips, Scott said. Surrounding law enforcement agencies including the Thurston County Sheriff’s Office and the Aberdeen Police Department sent officers to help perform follow-up searches and interviews.

About six core investigators have been leading the effort to find Lindsey, who disappeared while walking a few blocks home June 26. The detectives have found no evidence explaining the 4-foot-9, brown-haired girl’s disappearance, but they continue sorting through thousands of tips.

Officers and volunteers knocked on doors throughout town Tuesday, asking new questions and trying to reach people missed in previous interviews, Scott said.

Two teams with cadaver search dogs also roamed the town, he said, but the hot conditions limited the available scents and quickly wore out the dogs.


Scott said detectives and extra officers expect to follow up on new tips in town for at least the rest of the week. He asked anyone with any potentially helpful information to call 866-915-8299.

http://www.thenewstribune.com/news/northwest/story/827963.html


One month too late.

 ::MonkeyNoNo::


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: AZSunny on July 30, 2009, 10:19:04 AM
Reader Comment:

catriley123 84p ·  12 hours ago

This is so sad. I imagine the law enforcement people share info with each other, right? I read the newspaper from my old hometown in California, and there was an attempted abduction of a girl around that age, by a man in a white cargo van with Washington plates. I think it was in Santa Maria. As I said, I'd imagine the authorities send out bulletins nationally, so they'd know about this. The Washington plates thing caught my attention.

I hope they find her soon.

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/51941307.html

http://www.keyt.com/home/ticker/51341337.html

Man Tries To Lure Young Girl Into VanOriginally printed at http://www.keyt.com/home/ticker/51341337.html

Orcutt, CA-- Residents are being told to keep a lookout for a man driving a white van with possibly Washington State license plates.

Santa Barbara Sheriff deputies received a report Monday afternoon, that a man driving a white van near Hartnett and Cane tried to lure an 11-year-old girl into his van.

The girl said, the man pulled up to her and asked her to help him find a lost dog.  The girl told sheriff officials that when she ran to a nearby home to call for help.

Detectives say the suspect is in his 50's and was driving a white cargo van with two rear windows covered by curtains.

If you have any information on a possible suspect, you are urged to call the Santa Barbara Sheriff's Department.



Wow,  didn't Lindsey's mother say that 2 days before her disappearance a man was looking for his lost dog? Didn't she go to the park to help search....HINKY METER ALERT!!


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: AZSunny on July 30, 2009, 10:19:53 AM
Reader Comment:

catriley123 84p ·  12 hours ago

This is so sad. I imagine the law enforcement people share info with each other, right? I read the newspaper from my old hometown in California, and there was an attempted abduction of a girl around that age, by a man in a white cargo van with Washington plates. I think it was in Santa Maria. As I said, I'd imagine the authorities send out bulletins nationally, so they'd know about this. The Washington plates thing caught my attention.

I hope they find her soon.

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/51941307.html

http://www.keyt.com/home/ticker/51341337.html

Man Tries To Lure Young Girl Into VanOriginally printed at http://www.keyt.com/home/ticker/51341337.html

Orcutt, CA-- Residents are being told to keep a lookout for a man driving a white van with possibly Washington State license plates.

Santa Barbara Sheriff deputies received a report Monday afternoon, that a man driving a white van near Hartnett and Cane tried to lure an 11-year-old girl into his van.

The girl said, the man pulled up to her and asked her to help him find a lost dog. The girl told sheriff officials that when she ran to a nearby home to call for help.

Detectives say the suspect is in his 50's and was driving a white cargo van with two rear windows covered by curtains.

If you have any information on a possible suspect, you are urged to call the Santa Barbara Sheriff's Department.

Thanks Klaas
Interesting that the white van guy was also looking for help in finding his lost dog.I sure hope that McCleary LE has fully investigated the man looking for help in finding his lost dog 2 days before Lindsey disappeared.

WHOOPs, posted before I saw this...great minds. 


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: AZSunny on July 30, 2009, 10:22:56 AM
I don't remember, but was the guy in McCleary  looking for his dog ,also driving a white van??   

If there is a connection here, Lindsey could be anywhere between McCleary and Santa Barbara.  How sad.

JessStar, thanks for reporting this!!


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: JessStar on July 30, 2009, 10:37:32 AM
I don't remember, but was the guy in McCleary  looking for his dog ,also driving a white van??   

If there is a connection here, Lindsey could be anywhere between McCleary and Santa Barbara.  How sad.

JessStar, thanks for reporting this!!

Absolutely.  This threw up a GIGANTIC red flag when I read it.  There are just too many parallels to ignore it.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: no rose colored glasses on July 30, 2009, 10:41:15 AM
I don't remember, but was the guy in McCleary  looking for his dog ,also driving a white van??   

If there is a connection here, Lindsey could be anywhere between McCleary and Santa Barbara.  How sad.

JessStar, thanks for reporting this!!

Absolutely.  This threw up a GIGANTIC red flag when I read it.  There are just too many parallels to ignore it.
Exactly, and one just doesn't know, could mean nothing, could mean everything.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Rob on July 30, 2009, 11:17:12 AM
I don't remember, but was the guy in McCleary  looking for his dog ,also driving a white van??   

If there is a connection here, Lindsey could be anywhere between McCleary and Santa Barbara.  How sad.

JessStar, thanks for reporting this!!

Absolutely.  This threw up a GIGANTIC red flag when I read it.  There are just too many parallels to ignore it.
Exactly, and one just doesn't know, could mean nothing, could mean everything.

this alleged offender fits my profile to a tee...

no offense to anyone digging thru the mountains of sex local sex offenders intended...

but this is more along the lines of what I believe is a hit and run abduction.... and occurred in Lindsey's case...

in town and gone or stopped in town and gone...


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: KarmaRoundUp on July 30, 2009, 11:26:14 AM
Reader Comment:

catriley123 84p ·  12 hours ago

This is so sad. I imagine the law enforcement people share info with each other, right? I read the newspaper from my old hometown in California, and there was an attempted abduction of a girl around that age, by a man in a white cargo van with Washington plates. I think it was in Santa Maria. As I said, I'd imagine the authorities send out bulletins nationally, so they'd know about this. The Washington plates thing caught my attention.

I hope they find her soon.

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/51941307.html

http://www.keyt.com/home/ticker/51341337.html

Man Tries To Lure Young Girl Into VanOriginally printed at http://www.keyt.com/home/ticker/51341337.html

Orcutt, CA-- Residents are being told to keep a lookout for a man driving a white van with possibly Washington State license plates.

Santa Barbara Sheriff deputies received a report Monday afternoon, that a man driving a white van near Hartnett and Cane tried to lure an 11-year-old girl into his van.

The girl said, the man pulled up to her and asked her to help him find a lost dog. The girl told sheriff officials that when she ran to a nearby home to call for help.

Detectives say the suspect is in his 50's and was driving a white cargo van with two rear windows covered by curtains.

If you have any information on a possible suspect, you are urged to call the Santa Barbara Sheriff's Department.

Thanks Klaas
Interesting that the white van guy was also looking for help in finding his lost dog.I sure hope that McCleary LE has fully investigated the man looking for help in finding his lost dog 2 days before Lindsey disappeared.

WHOOPs, posted before I saw this...great minds. 
::MonkeyWink::


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: KarmaRoundUp on July 30, 2009, 11:28:28 AM
I don't remember, but was the guy in McCleary  looking for his dog ,also driving a white van??   

If there is a connection here, Lindsey could be anywhere between McCleary and Santa Barbara.  How sad.

JessStar, thanks for reporting this!!
I don't remember if they said what the lost dog guy in McCleary was driving but Lindsey did ask her Mama if she could help hang up flyers and search for the dog.....I'll have to check the last few pages of this thread for that info.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: AZSunny on July 30, 2009, 11:31:35 AM
I don't remember, but was the guy in McCleary  looking for his dog ,also driving a white van??   

If there is a connection here, Lindsey could be anywhere between McCleary and Santa Barbara.  How sad.

JessStar, thanks for reporting this!!

Absolutely.  This threw up a GIGANTIC red flag when I read it.  There are just too many parallels to ignore it.
Exactly, and one just doesn't know, could mean nothing, could mean everything.

this alleged offender fits my profile to a tee...

no offense to anyone digging thru the mountains of sex local sex offenders intended...

but this is more along the lines of what I believe is a hit and run abduction.... and occurred in Lindsey's case...

in town and gone or stopped in town and gone...

You are possibly right Rob, we are covering all the bases, and there are some interesting "local" links within a 100 radius as well. 


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: sunshine12 on July 30, 2009, 11:34:46 AM
i think there could be a connection here and i'm glad someone called the police or fbi about this... if this is the same person that took lindsey, it would make sense that maybe it was someone local to the area in mccleary or that part of washington state (b/c of the washington plates) and then he decided to flee the area and head south through california where he got the urge to try it again, sadly, if this is the connection we have been looking for, lindsey could be anywhere, but i'd be looking south of mccleary


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: KarmaRoundUp on July 30, 2009, 11:36:42 AM
It is in thread # 2,page #75

Karma wrote:
Quote
From Yosande at WS(after listening to the talk radio show with Melissa):
Melissa stated:

two days before LIndsey went missing, a man was looking for a missing dog. It was legit, and he posted posters around town, but she used it as an opportunity to remind Lindsey of cautions.

MB said she showed Lindsey the SO website.

She wouldn't have gotten in a car with a stranger, she would have fought.

MB says someone knows something.

People know something.

She is concerned someone is covering for the perp.

MB said it was almost 11pm before it got dark that night.

She says her son is a wanderer.

LB was last seen at 9:20pm

She said Lindsey was aware of safety issues.

She said she told Lindsey to kick, fight, scream, if someone ever tried to abduct her.

She said Lindsey had slip on shoes on, and her shoes were not found.

Talking about a website called takeroot.org about adults who were abducted as children, and family members of abducted children.
http://www.takeroot.org/
http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=86992&page=7


and
Karma wrote:
Quote
More from Yosande at WS re:radio show with Melissa:
Melissa stated:
MB said it was legit, but I hope LE checked him out anyway.

(I wonder if a local can give us more info on this person, or grab a poster of the dog.)stated by Yosande


Driving around asking kids if they saw his dog.

Lindsey and friends decided to go to the park to look for the dog.

Mom reminded her of being cautious.

Lindsey said, "Duh mom, I'm not stupid."
http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=86992&page=7


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Rob on July 30, 2009, 11:41:25 AM


You are possibly right Rob, we are covering all the bases, and there are some interesting "local" links within a 100 radius as well. 

AZ, I'm aware of the offenders - and said in my initial post that Lindsey is not in the immediate area and with-in 120 miles. So I do appreciate everyone's efforts.

 ::MonkeyWink::

Good to see you!!!


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: KarmaRoundUp on July 30, 2009, 11:43:15 AM
Someone at WS found these images of Lindsey on Melissa Baum's facebook.




Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Rob on July 30, 2009, 11:44:51 AM
It's about a 16hour drive:

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub7/CalifMcCleary.jpg)

I wonder if this person is heading into Mexico, and might have his license plate capture at the border??

Someone should call the border guards... juss sayin'


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: JessStar on July 30, 2009, 12:00:40 PM
It's about a 16hour drive:

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub7/CalifMcCleary.jpg)

I wonder if this person is heading into Mexico, and might have his license plate capture at the border??

Someone should call the border guards... juss sayin'

VERY possible Rob.  But that darn incident was reported on July 21st, so if he was heading to Mexico, he's there already.   ::MonkeyWaa::


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: JessStar on July 30, 2009, 12:04:28 PM
Someone at WS found these images of Lindsey on Melissa Baum's facebook.




Those look to be a few years old.   ::MonkeyWaa:: ::MonkeyNoNo::My heart aches when I see pictures like that.  She's such a cute girl. 


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on July 30, 2009, 12:05:44 PM
Sheriff's deputies say they have contacted a man who fits the young girl's description and he does drive a white van.

But as of right now, they are not sure any crime has been committed.

http://www.ksby.com/Global/story.asp?S=10760272


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on July 30, 2009, 12:08:26 PM
he was inside the gated community, so you would think he had some kind of connection to be in there?  maybe a landscaper/gardener or delivered something?  but you can say you are going in to deliver something and a lot of times the gatekeeper will let you in, or if you have ever been in there before they just wave you on through. 

weird he would pic a gated community to try this?


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Edward on July 30, 2009, 12:25:24 PM
We had 14 attempted abductions noted in the Amber Dubois case from San Diego to Los Angeles.. and this is the mysterious White Van that has been noted in 3 or those attempted abductions ?? The lic plate possibly being Washington..means just that..possibly.
They need real witness or again they need detectives at ALL gas stations reviewing video and ALL street intersection Video and ANY video surveillance along the freeways that may identify this van..
It could be relative to Lindsey.. It could be relative to Amber and look at the distance this perp travels !! from Washington to San Diego !

We need real efforts by LE and the F.B.I. as this is possibly a multi state crime..
 IF he took Amber from Escondido and headed to Washington she really could be anywhere along that path..
I hate letting my mind get out that far..


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: sunshine12 on July 30, 2009, 12:27:18 PM
he was inside the gated community, so you would think he had some kind of connection to be in there?  maybe a landscaper/gardener or delivered something?  but you can say you are going in to deliver something and a lot of times the gatekeeper will let you in, or if you have ever been in there before they just wave you on through. 

weird he would pic a gated community to try this?

yea i dunno why he would be a gardener or something tho with washington plates


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Edward on July 30, 2009, 12:27:45 PM
Sheriff's deputies say they have contacted a man who fits the young girl's description and he does drive a white van.

But as of right now, they are not sure any crime has been committed.

http://www.ksby.com/Global/story.asp?S=10760272

Interesting... DNA test kit !!!


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Edward on July 30, 2009, 12:31:49 PM
Test his van for Amber TOO.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on July 30, 2009, 12:32:44 PM
We had 14 attempted abductions noted in the Amber Dubois case from San Diego to Los Angeles.. and this is the mysterious White Van that has been noted in 3 or those attempted abductions ?? The lic plate possibly being Washington..means just that..possibly.
They need real witness or again they need detectives at ALL gas stations reviewing video and ALL street intersection Video and ANY video surveillance along the freeways that may identify this van..
It could be relative to Lindsey.. It could be relative to Amber and look at the distance this perp travels !! from Washington to San Diego !

We need real efforts by LE and the F.B.I. as this is possibly a multi state crime..
 IF he took Amber from Escondido and headed to Washington she really could be anywhere along that path..
I hate letting my mind get out that far..

I agree with you Edward, my first thought on this was hmmm, amber dubois and the white van seen all over southern cali.  we also have to realize criminals will slap another set of plates on the vehicles, commit the crimes and then pull them off.  white vans, UGH... all over heck and back. 

but it makes sense to me that a perp would travel all over the place back and forth and around and around so as not to have evidence showing up all in one place.  these guys are mobile.  just pull your van to a campground, camp out a week, go another 500 miles and do it again, leave the victim 1000 miles away.  how you going to keep up with these people. 


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on July 30, 2009, 12:40:22 PM
you know I just have to go ahead and say this. 

adam campbell said more than those two posts on lindsey's guestbook. 
and part of what he said was, as far as I can figure it out was:

man and woman hide in woods, at lake swimming, in a van, take stolen kids, etc. 
see this is what someone is doing.  does he suspect it?  does he KNOW about it?  but see he mentions the VAN too.  they are all over the dang place. 


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Edward on July 30, 2009, 12:44:46 PM
Hi DoubleDecker.. You have been doing some great research..
A Migrating worker from Mexico..
My dad lives in Oregon and owns a mobile home park along the coast and half of his renters are migrant workers from Mexico..
So I do think it is very likely that the occupant of this van could be just that.

Sheriff appear to have somebody and I will just cross my fingers and hope for the best..


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Rob on July 30, 2009, 12:52:31 PM
you know I just have to go ahead and say this. 

adam campbell said more than those two posts on lindsey's guestbook. 
and part of what he said was, as far as I can figure it out was:

man and woman hide in woods, at lake swimming, in a van, take stolen kids, etc. 
see this is what someone is doing.  does he suspect it?  does he KNOW about it?  but see he mentions the VAN too.  they are all over the dang place. 

my initial thoughts in Amber's case were / was a VAN was used - from either New Mexico or Arizona with those state license plates....... it's easy to add in Washington now... I initially thought of migrant workers in construction, food service (vegetable pickers) and possibly vineyard day labors...

Originally, I thought of Arizona, New Mexico and California -

maybe it's time to check Oregon for related cases...possibly a five state crime spree / enterprise.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on July 30, 2009, 12:53:42 PM
Hi DoubleDecker.. You have been doing some great research..
A Migrating worker from Mexico..
My dad lives in Oregon and owns a mobile home park along the coast and half of his renters are migrant workers from Mexico..
So I do think it is very likely that the occupant of this van could be just that.

Sheriff appear to have somebody and I will just cross my fingers and hope for the best..

I had asked a local up there about migrant workers in the area.  they do come in there I was told.  well a lot of times they will work on the tree planting and some of the other forest service contracts, I do know this.  And I was told yes, they do come in the area there.  And there are a LOT Of WHITE migrant workers as well.  And they do travel a circuit from wash, oregon, cali, az, florida, sometimes in idaho and montana as well.  that is the main circuit.  they are very mobile, switch cars like underwear, have vans, campers, travel trailers, motorhomes, all good places to conceal stolen kids.  There is a stolen child ring which has traveled this circuit for decades. 


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: no rose colored glasses on July 30, 2009, 12:55:02 PM
you know I just have to go ahead and say this. 

adam campbell said more than those two posts on lindsey's guestbook. 
and part of what he said was, as far as I can figure it out was:

man and woman hide in woods, at lake swimming, in a van, take stolen kids, etc. 
see this is what someone is doing.  does he suspect it?  does he KNOW about it?  but see he mentions the VAN too.  they are all over the dang place. 
  ::MonkeyEek:: Very interesting, and he mentions VAN also, now I'm really thinking something is up with this. Does he say white van? And why is he saying this in a guestbook of a missing child, is really the big question I have.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on July 30, 2009, 12:58:30 PM
you know I just have to go ahead and say this. 

adam campbell said more than those two posts on lindsey's guestbook. 
and part of what he said was, as far as I can figure it out was:

man and woman hide in woods, at lake swimming, in a van, take stolen kids, etc. 
see this is what someone is doing.  does he suspect it?  does he KNOW about it?  but see he mentions the VAN too.  they are all over the dang place. 
  ::MonkeyEek:: Very interesting, and he mentions VAN also, now I'm really thinking something is up with this. Does he say white van? And why is he saying this in a guestbook of a missing child, is really the big question I have.

he did not say this part in the guestbook. this was elsewhere.  and all he said about a VAN was in the middle of a sentence  where he mentions VAN, nothing more was said about a van other than this part. 

I know but in the State Law very wrong Man or Woman if who has have "Sexual offender Level" after take stolen Boys & Girls" hide bring go somewhere home or lots many tree hide, motel hide, Van hide, Lake Swimming hide


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on July 30, 2009, 01:02:56 PM
you know I just have to go ahead and say this. 

adam campbell said more than those two posts on lindsey's guestbook. 
and part of what he said was, as far as I can figure it out was:

man and woman hide in woods, at lake swimming, in a van, take stolen kids, etc. 
see this is what someone is doing.  does he suspect it?  does he KNOW about it?  but see he mentions the VAN too.  they are all over the dang place. 

my initial thoughts in Amber's case were / was a VAN was used - from either New Mexico or Arizona with those state license plates....... it's easy to add in Washington now... I initially thought of migrant workers in construction, food service (vegetable pickers) and possibly vineyard day labors...

Originally, I thought of Arizona, New Mexico and California -

maybe it's time to check Oregon for related cases...possibly a five state crime spree / enterprise.

Rob, some of this has being going on for decades that I know of.  It spans the states I just posted, it is a wide circuit they make.  I have looked at this forever.  its a real mess and it involves white migrant workers also.  they pick fruit, work the forests, and the cotton gins in AZ on the off time, then head to florida, back to cali, then oregon or wash or both, sometimes into idaho/montana for cherries, then back to AZ. start all over again.  they can be mobile, work if they want or don't want with no record of anything, change cars everywhere they go, etc.  its an other world.  you would have to see it to understand it.  it's a whole sub-culture. 


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on July 30, 2009, 01:05:43 PM
oh I should add, they change their names as often as they change there vehicles.  so they are very hard to track.  if they do not want to be found, you won't find them.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Rob on July 30, 2009, 01:06:09 PM
you know I just have to go ahead and say this. 

adam campbell said more than those two posts on lindsey's guestbook. 
and part of what he said was, as far as I can figure it out was:

man and woman hide in woods, at lake swimming, in a van, take stolen kids, etc. 
see this is what someone is doing.  does he suspect it?  does he KNOW about it?  but see he mentions the VAN too.  they are all over the dang place. 
  ::MonkeyEek:: Very interesting, and he mentions VAN also, now I'm really thinking something is up with this. Does he say white van? And why is he saying this in a guestbook of a missing child, is really the big question I have.

emboldened a portion of doubledecker's post..

interesting that Adam Campbell seems to know underlying info... and un-related to these particular cases, but in the Maddy McCann case - Robert Murat KNEW about the local pedo ring in Praia Da Luz - and told the police and was arrested... and his main associate and business partner - Sergei Malinka - was caught in the act of wiping out several 500 gig hard drives as the police kicked in his door...Malinka was a computer expert from Russia.

Now how do SO's or alleged SO's know these things unless they are peripherally connected - I don't believe in coincidences.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on July 30, 2009, 01:11:36 PM
you know I just have to go ahead and say this. 

adam campbell said more than those two posts on lindsey's guestbook. 
and part of what he said was, as far as I can figure it out was:

man and woman hide in woods, at lake swimming, in a van, take stolen kids, etc. 
see this is what someone is doing.  does he suspect it?  does he KNOW about it?  but see he mentions the VAN too.  they are all over the dang place. 
  ::MonkeyEek:: Very interesting, and he mentions VAN also, now I'm really thinking something is up with this. Does he say white van? And why is he saying this in a guestbook of a missing child, is really the big question I have.

emboldened a portion of doubledecker's post..

interesting that Adam Campbell seems to know underlying info... and un-related to these particular cases, but in the Maddy McCann case - Robert Murat KNEW about the local pedo ring in Praia Da Luz - and told the police and was arrested... and his main associate and business partner - Sergei Malinka - was caught in the act of wiping out several 500 gig hard drives as the police kicked in his door...Malinka was a computer expert from Russia.

Now how do SO's or alleged SO's know these things unless they are peripherally connected - I don't believe in coincidences.

and this is why I paid attention to adam the way I did.  people kept saying he was a Bot, but I knew right off he knew something because I have seen too much of this stuff.  Granted he is deaf and that made a lot of what he was saying come off weird to the point I could not tell how much was INFO CODED and how much he was having a problem relaying info because he is deaf.  but I finally figured it out for the most part, now I can understand him.  He knows what these people do.  and it is about more than lindsey.  It is what they do all over the place.  I honestly believe he was trying to help.  But it came out crazy, but I understand him NOW, but now he has disappeared UGH. 


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Rob on July 30, 2009, 01:13:30 PM
you know I just have to go ahead and say this. 

adam campbell said more than those two posts on lindsey's guestbook. 
and part of what he said was, as far as I can figure it out was:

man and woman hide in woods, at lake swimming, in a van, take stolen kids, etc. 
see this is what someone is doing.  does he suspect it?  does he KNOW about it?  but see he mentions the VAN too.  they are all over the dang place. 

my initial thoughts in Amber's case were / was a VAN was used - from either New Mexico or Arizona with those state license plates....... it's easy to add in Washington now... I initially thought of migrant workers in construction, food service (vegetable pickers) and possibly vineyard day labors...

Originally, I thought of Arizona, New Mexico and California -

maybe it's time to check Oregon for related cases...possibly a five state crime spree / enterprise.

Rob, some of this has being going on for decades that I know of.  It spans the states I just posted, it is a wide circuit they make.  I have looked at this forever.  its a real mess and it involves white migrant workers also.  they pick fruit, work the forests, and the cotton gins in AZ on the off time, then head to florida, back to cali, then oregon or wash or both, sometimes into idaho/montana for cherries, then back to AZ. start all over again.  they can be mobile, work if they want or don't want with no record of anything, change cars everywhere they go, etc.  its an other world.  you would have to see it to understand it.  it's a whole sub-culture. 

22% of all federal inmates are illegals..almost all are in CA, NM, Arizona, Nevada, Florida, Texas, Washington, Oregon, and New York. Of course some are in Colorado and Idaho and North and South Dakota.

they bring their bankrupt central American culture with them and all heck breaks loose...


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: no rose colored glasses on July 30, 2009, 01:15:11 PM
you know I just have to go ahead and say this. 

adam campbell said more than those two posts on lindsey's guestbook. 
and part of what he said was, as far as I can figure it out was:

man and woman hide in woods, at lake swimming, in a van, take stolen kids, etc. 
see this is what someone is doing.  does he suspect it?  does he KNOW about it?  but see he mentions the VAN too.  they are all over the dang place. 
  ::MonkeyEek:: Very interesting, and he mentions VAN also, now I'm really thinking something is up with this. Does he say white van? And why is he saying this in a guestbook of a missing child, is really the big question I have.

he did not say this part in the guestbook. this was elsewhere.  and all he said about a VAN was in the middle of a sentence  where he mentions VAN, nothing more was said about a van other than this part. 

I know but in the State Law very wrong Man or Woman if who has have "Sexual offender Level" after take stolen Boys & Girls" hide bring go somewhere home or lots many tree hide, motel hide, Van hide, Lake Swimming hide
Thanks, but still very strange.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Rob on July 30, 2009, 01:16:37 PM
and this is why I paid attention to adam the way I did.  people kept saying he was a Bot, but I knew right off he knew something because I have seen too much of this stuff.  Granted he is deaf and that made a lot of what he was saying come off weird to the point I could not tell how much was INFO CODED and how much he was having a problem relaying info because he is deaf.  but I finally figured it out for the most part, now I can understand him.  He knows what these people do.  and it is about more than lindsey.  It is what they do all over the place.  I honestly believe he was trying to help.  But it came out crazy, but I understand him NOW, but now he has disappeared UGH. 

Who was Adam Campbell in jail with and where? maybe someone was paroled that he is aware of...?? It's possible he gained knowledge while in jail of the inner workings of a traveling group..

Criminals, when bored, often speak to each other about their escapades and dastardly deeds.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: canadianmonkey on July 30, 2009, 01:18:39 PM
About the unmarked white van that is used in alot of attempts of kidnapping.  Part of my job is to clear shipments going into the states from Canadian.  3 years ago we had a plain white van.  We were stopped going across the border every time.  We were finally told that the truck inspectors were targeting ANY unmarked white van and it was recommended that we get some logo put on the truck.  Since we now have a logo on the truck we aren't stopped.  If this is happening in border states maybe more people can push their states to inforce the same kind of rule.  It's alot easier to identify a van if it has some sort of markings on it.  I know markings can be changed but it has to be easier then an unmarked white van.  Just a thought.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: A_News_Junkie_Monkey on July 30, 2009, 01:20:47 PM
and this is why I paid attention to adam the way I did.  people kept saying he was a Bot, but I knew right off he knew something because I have seen too much of this stuff.  Granted he is deaf and that made a lot of what he was saying come off weird to the point I could not tell how much was INFO CODED and how much he was having a problem relaying info because he is deaf.  but I finally figured it out for the most part, now I can understand him.  He knows what these people do.  and it is about more than lindsey.  It is what they do all over the place.  I honestly believe he was trying to help.  But it came out crazy, but I understand him NOW, but now he has disappeared UGH

Who was Adam Campbell in jail with and where? maybe someone was paroled that he is aware of...?? It's possible he gained knowledge while in jail of the inner workings of a traveling group..

Criminals, when bored, often speak to each other about their escapades and dastardly deeds.

Two things come to mind:
1.  He is involved and hiding ................ and two, more daunting
2.  He has valuable information on this case (or a ring) and he is being dealt with in a manner in which would silence him forever.  I sure hope LE finds him soon and determines which it is.

Or, in all fairness I guess there is a remote possibility he is just a nut, inserting himself in a case like John M. Karr - but I don't think so.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: sunshine12 on July 30, 2009, 01:32:30 PM
i think its highly possible that adam campbell is not involved at all in any of this, however is aware of the child ring going through the different states and wants to bring that information to light as a possibility of what happened to lindsey so that someone would investigate it


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on July 30, 2009, 01:33:28 PM
and this is why I paid attention to adam the way I did.  people kept saying he was a Bot, but I knew right off he knew something because I have seen too much of this stuff.  Granted he is deaf and that made a lot of what he was saying come off weird to the point I could not tell how much was INFO CODED and how much he was having a problem relaying info because he is deaf.  but I finally figured it out for the most part, now I can understand him.  He knows what these people do.  and it is about more than lindsey.  It is what they do all over the place.  I honestly believe he was trying to help.  But it came out crazy, but I understand him NOW, but now he has disappeared UGH. 

Who was Adam Campbell in jail with and where? maybe someone was paroled that he is aware of...?? It's possible he gained knowledge while in jail of the inner workings of a traveling group..

Criminals, when bored, often speak to each other about their escapades and dastardly deeds.

adam is 31 yrs old, convicted in 1995 in washinton, he was approx 17 at the time.  so he might have got probation or sent to youth authority or who knows, or turned 18 during and in county jail.  if he did go to prison it would be in the state of WASH... and how long would he have stayed I don't know.  my guess he did not go to prison because of his age BACK THEN and spent little time if any. 

I believe he probably hooked up with the HOMELESS and this is where he has been in and about all this mess.  Because he is a registered sex offender he probably had contact with other homeless registered sex offenders.  My guess is he hooked up with some homeless sex offender along the line and might have seen or heard a lot.  If you are hooked up with one of them and they come back to your homeless camp with some child, you pretty much know the story of what is going on.  He also could have set in "group sessions" with other sex offenders and heard about it all.  He might have also been involved who knows.  I really am beginning to doubt he was involved other than maybe knowing about it because he is on the guestbook with his own name, his own old email addy and saying this stuff.  why in the heck would he do that.  My guess is he wanted to help, as crazy as that seems.  Or adam just does not fully understand what he is doing... obviously could be the main reason. 

I do know the dets interviewed him and he did not kidnap lindsey when she disappeared.  did he have contact with someone who did?  he might have.  Did he see someone with her after that, he certainly could have, was he one of the guys walking her down the road in Roy, it is very possible, did he decide to tell, he might have.  I don't know, I can't locate him.  ugh


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on July 30, 2009, 01:39:52 PM
About the unmarked white van that is used in alot of attempts of kidnapping.  Part of my job is to clear shipments going into the states from Canadian.  3 years ago we had a plain white van.  We were stopped going across the border every time.  We were finally told that the truck inspectors were targeting ANY unmarked white van and it was recommended that we get some logo put on the truck.  Since we now have a logo on the truck we aren't stopped.  If this is happening in border states maybe more people can push their states to inforce the same kind of rule.  It's alot easier to identify a van if it has some sort of markings on it.  I know markings can be changed but it has to be easier then an unmarked white van.  Just a thought.

you figure this... a van is the easiest place to conceal someone tied up, etc.  AND at the same time if it is a WHITE VAN it is the least likely to ID in comparison with any other color.  white van describes a million vehicles... so that is probably why they use them. 


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on July 30, 2009, 01:50:26 PM
i think its highly possible that adam campbell is not involved at all in any of this, however is aware of the child ring going through the different states and wants to bring that information to light as a possibility of what happened to lindsey so that someone would investigate it

I believe adam was trying to tell what he knows.  he was taking a lot of effort to make sure someone understood.  I hope someone really did pay attention to him and not just write it off.  I do hope he is sitting with the police and they are taking him seriously.  If not, I believe they lost a very valuable person who can possibly help them to understand what is going on.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Tamikosmom on July 30, 2009, 02:02:13 PM
Considering the following ... why was a ten year old little girl ... with no means to defend herself ... put at risk by being allowed to walk the streets of McCleary without adult supervision.

Janet

++++++

mlachester 2 hours ago wrote:

I am close to her and I know a lot more than the media or law enforcement are saying right now. As for Scanner, sorry if you don't like the truth but I have never been one to keep the truth in and she should of been taken the first time she called 911 from my house asking for help instead of put in a police car and taken back to her abuser!"

http://www.king5.com/topstories/stor...omments_anchor


mlachester 1 day ago wrote:
Also people need to know Lindsey had told a friend a white car had been folling her and that another 11 year old girl was also talked to by someone a=in a white car the guy tryed to get her in by going as far as telling her she could drive the car. She ran and told her mom and yes the police knows this too.

http://www.king5.com/topstories/stor...omments_anchor


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: JessStar on July 30, 2009, 02:16:29 PM
Considering the following ... why was a ten year old little girl ... with no means to defend herself ... put at risk by being allowed to walk the streets of McCleary without adult supervision.

Janet

++++++

mlachester 2 hours ago wrote:

I am close to her and I know a lot more than the media or law enforcement are saying right now. As for Scanner, sorry if you don't like the truth but I have never been one to keep the truth in and she should of been taken the first time she called 911 from my house asking for help instead of put in a police car and taken back to her abuser!"

http://www.king5.com/topstories/stor...omments_anchor


mlachester 1 day ago wrote:
Also people need to know Lindsey had told a friend a white car had been folling her and that another 11 year old girl was also talked to by someone a=in a white car the guy tryed to get her in by going as far as telling her she could drive the car. She ran and told her mom and yes the police knows this too.

http://www.king5.com/topstories/stor...omments_anchor


IIRC, this poster has been substantially discredited.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: JessStar on July 30, 2009, 02:17:38 PM
Considering the following ... why was a ten year old little girl ... with no means to defend herself ... put at risk by being allowed to walk the streets of McCleary without adult supervision.

Janet

++++++

mlachester 2 hours ago wrote:

I am close to her and I know a lot more than the media or law enforcement are saying right now. As for Scanner, sorry if you don't like the truth but I have never been one to keep the truth in and she should of been taken the first time she called 911 from my house asking for help instead of put in a police car and taken back to her abuser!"

http://www.king5.com/topstories/stor...omments_anchor


mlachester 1 day ago wrote:
Also people need to know Lindsey had told a friend a white car had been folling her and that another 11 year old girl was also talked to by someone a=in a white car the guy tryed to get her in by going as far as telling her she could drive the car. She ran and told her mom and yes the police knows this too.

http://www.king5.com/topstories/stor...omments_anchor


SELF EDIT:   IIRC, this poster (mlachester)has been substantially discredited.



Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Nut44x4 on July 30, 2009, 02:20:19 PM
KLAAS.....I am not stalking you  ::MonkeyDevil:: I am checking all the active threads, lmaoooo  ::MonkeySlide::


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Edward on July 30, 2009, 02:22:19 PM
Although I live in an AG area .. As the Monterey bay area of California is an AG area..
I do not see many White or European migrant workers today.
Most are from Mexico, central America, South America, Portugal and some others.
   
Although my next door neighbor has his father living with him who was in fact is a white migrant worker from the 40s-50's and very American. They came across years ago from North Dakota all the way to the west coast as migrant workers and even living in there car with the kids.. He is 70 years old now.. Listening to his story is really a "Grapes of Wrath story" which is about European and other immigrants as well as poor class Americans who were in fact white and did in fact do migrant work in the 20's -60's here in the Monterey bay area and a gentleman named Steinbeck who was grouchy old man and who was a writer, wrote some stories about them ..
I have talked with many people who knew Steinbeck.As many did.. who are all now in there 80's
We also have the Steinbeck center in Salinas Ca. if any of you want to know about him.. I have never been inside of it but I bet it is educational..

IF there is a sub culture of Caucasian Migrant farm workers today I have not come across any of them except for the Truck Drivers that haul the finished products shipped out of Coolers after the products are picked and boxed in the fields and taken to the coolers.
For the most part Mexican farm workers are Union workers today and NOT illegal alien workers although I do see some illegals who pick lettuce in Salinas and work in the flower growers hot houses..
Flower growers seem to employ many of them as the Union workers hate them and get really pissy if they are in there fields working.. The union workers actually get into fights with illegals here..
 The illegals are used to pick the cheapest of crops like lettuce and field prep... Not strawberries or Blackberries or high end crops like special grown items.. Union workers pick most of that, as it pays the most..
You always see more crime where the cheap crops are growing too.. Salinas has a high murder rate and they grow most of the lettuce and Watsonville has almost no murder and they grow most of the strawberries and other berries..Which pays the most to the Union pickers..
 When you see the buses show up to a field many times they have illegals in them.
The buses drive around Salinas in the morning and pick up field workers from street corners and pay them cash per day..
 Union workers get a check per week of work.

   


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on July 30, 2009, 02:24:02 PM
about the white car in the area.  I have heard many different stories about a white car, from several different locals. 

we all know marylin's one. 

here is another this is coming from someone else.   
 the night she went missing, before she got to mommsen, before she crossed main (not sure exact location) she stopped at xxxxx and xxxxxxx house (i don't know them) she was asking to spend the night, they were having a slumber party.  a white car went by and she flipped out, went white, scared to death.  she asked to stay and they wouldn't let her.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: sherip on July 30, 2009, 02:26:36 PM
Okay DD, I am beginning this new thread.  I should've probably brought it over from Lindsey part 2, but I am going to throw a whole bunch of stuff out here. 

Let's start with Adam's address in Roy.  Let's assume he had a contact there.  I think he did.  I have a strong reason to believe that there's an association between Adam Campbell and this Karl Steven Goering.

This Karl Steven Goering character, an SO, operating under the radar in Kennewick right now. Non-Compliant.  A Karl S. Goering was a detective in Kennewick too, and I am suspecting that it was possibly his father.   I have a whole bunch of stuff on Karl S. Junior that I posted on Lindsey part 2.  Okay, now that Pierce is in McCleary, that brings us back to Roy, cause Roy is in that county.  Stay with me here, I Will get this out.  Just want to post some stats here again on Karl junior.   Address:  6102 Road 68, Kennewick, WaThis should be Pasco Washington.  I have the phone number.  Easy to find.  He married Theresa Ann Forzaglia on Dec 18, 2000.  Child support issues same year.  He's got MS page member #281491802.  Nothing there but a monkey playing a guitar (Is this a slam?)  Another MS member #364234353 with lots and lots of photos.  Born June 18, 1973.  Resembles Adam Lee Campbell, possibly.  Then he's got that fubar page too.  It's in the other thread.  Okay, this is background.

I work in reverse a lot of times.  So, I started in Roy and found that a Dwight Edward Goering used to live in Roy.  He lives in Moses Lake currently.  Address:  1025 Virginia St.  Moses Lake, Wa.  98837.  I have phone too but it's easy to find.  He's on MyLife (formerly Classmates.com I think).  Born September 4, 1962.  Wife Desiree lives at same address.  There's a Donna too, but I believe she lives elsewhere in Washington now. 

On MyLife, Dwight has three friends, one of whom is Theresa Goering in Kennewick, Karl S. Goering Jr's current wife. 

So, this may be Adam's connection from Roy in a round-about way.  I still need to do some snooping around in Roy. 

But, when all is said and done, I think we will find a string of suspects and a string of missing children.  Now, I haven't done this yet, but if we just CONSIDER the possibility that there's a connection here, perhaps the Code (such as it is) may make sense.  I don't know cause I haven't looked at it myself in while.  Do you have the whole message handy to post here again?

Anyway, just more stuff to consider.   :smt120


I want to make a correction to my last post.  the current address for Karl Steven Goering Jr. is in Pasco, Washington.  Not Kennewick, just in case LE of some description in this area wants to pay this guy a visit.

And here's all the information on Dwight Edward Goering and all the places he's lived. 

1      Dwight Goering
Dwight E Goering
Dwight Ed Goering
Dwight Edward Goering
Dwight E Georing
   46
   Address Available    Phone Available    Moses Lake, WA
Roy, WA
Graham, WA
Spanaway, WA
Tahuya, WA
Tacoma, WA
Eatonville, WA
Kennewick, WA
Grandview, WA
   Desiree Lynne Goering
Desiree L Goering
Dwight Edward Goering




Wayne Watne
PO Box 1794
Moses Lake, WA 98837
02/2006

Wayne Watne
4869 Viking Road NE
Moses Lake Wa, 98837-3743
Grant County


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on July 30, 2009, 02:27:26 PM
and this is again a totally different person


xxxx was also followed by a white car until, she thinks, he could get a good look at her when she turned around.  she said she worked with the sketch artist on that car.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on July 30, 2009, 02:28:40 PM
and then someone else, totally different person said her daughter was followed by a white car


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: no rose colored glasses on July 30, 2009, 02:30:07 PM
and then someone else, totally different person said her daughter was followed by a white car
Just so I'm clear, there were several people in town, saying about a white car?


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: AZSunny on July 30, 2009, 02:33:59 PM
about the white car in the area.  I have heard many different stories about a white car, from several different locals. 

we all know marylin's one. 

here is another this is coming from someone else.   
 the night she went missing, before she got to mommsen, before she crossed main (not sure exact location) she stopped at xxxxx and xxxxxxx house (i don't know them) she was asking to spend the night, they were having a slumber party.  a white car went by and she flipped out, went white, scared to death.  she asked to stay and they wouldn't let her.

So this is another group of girls she wanted to spend the night with, before she asked about KK's daughter spendng the night.  I wonder if it were the girls she had been swimming with all day that have the house across the street from the Shell station?


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on July 30, 2009, 02:37:37 PM
Although I live in an AG area .. As the Monterey bay area of California is an AG area..
I do not see many White or European migrant workers today.
Most are from Mexico, central America, South America, Portugal and some others.
   
Although my next door neighbor has his father living with him who was in fact is a white migrant worker from the 40s-50's and very American. They came across years ago from North Dakota all the way to the west coast as migrant workers and even living in there car with the kids.. He is 70 years old now.. Listening to his story is really a "Grapes of Wrath story" which is about European and other immigrants as well as poor class Americans who were in fact white and did in fact do migrant work in the 20's -60's here in the Monterey bay area and a gentleman named Steinbeck who was grouchy old man and who was a writer, wrote some stories about them ..
I have talked with many people who knew Steinbeck.As many did.. who are all now in there 80's
We also have the Steinbeck center in Salinas Ca. if any of you want to know about him.. I have never been inside of it but I bet it is educational..

IF there is a sub culture of Caucasian Migrant farm workers today I have not come across any of them except for the Truck Drivers that haul the finished products shipped out of Coolers after the products are picked and boxed in the fields and taken to the coolers.
For the most part Mexican farm workers are Union workers today and NOT illegal alien workers although I do see some illegals who pick lettuce in Salinas and work in the flower growers hot houses..
Flower growers seem to employ many of them as the Union workers hate them and get really pissy if they are in there fields working.. The union workers actually get into fights with illegals here..
 The illegals are used to pick the cheapest of crops like lettuce and field prep... Not strawberries or Blackberries or high end crops like special grown items.. Union workers pick most of that, as it pays the most..
You always see more crime where the cheap crops are growing too.. Salinas has a high murder rate and they grow most of the lettuce and Watsonville has almost no murder and they grow most of the strawberries and other berries..Which pays the most to the Union pickers..
 When you see the buses show up to a field many times they have illegals in them.
The buses drive around Salinas in the morning and pick up field workers from street corners and pay them cash per day..
 Union workers get a check per week of work.

   

these white groups usually stay in the orchard fruit.  the apples and cherries and pears then to florida to the oranges and grapefruit.  in between this group will go to az to the cotton gin.  they will do the cherries in cali, but for the most part they do not work in cali, just the early cherries in linden/by stockton. sometimes they end up in the strawberries in oregon, they don't end up in the other areas.  Its a "route" they have traveled for decades.

I know the police were told about this years ago, they did not do a dang thing about it, so... what does that tell you


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on July 30, 2009, 02:39:04 PM
and then someone else, totally different person said her daughter was followed by a white car
Just so I'm clear, there were several people in town, saying about a white car?

yes these are all different people with different incidences.  Now these are locals saying this.  you know how the local rumor mill can spin. but this is what I have been told.  but with this many people saying it, you would think there really is a white car following people.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: JessStar on July 30, 2009, 02:39:54 PM
about the white car in the area.  I have heard many different stories about a white car, from several different locals. 

we all know marylin's one. 

here is another this is coming from someone else.   
 the night she went missing, before she got to mommsen, before she crossed main (not sure exact location) she stopped at xxxxx and xxxxxxx house (i don't know them) she was asking to spend the night, they were having a slumber party.  a white car went by and she flipped out, went white, scared to death.  she asked to stay and they wouldn't let her.

So this is another group of girls she wanted to spend the night with, before she asked about KK's daughter spendng the night.  I wonder if it were the girls she had been swimming with all day that have the house across the street from the Shell station?

Did this happen BEFORE or AFTER she left KK's house?  I'm a bit confused, because I thought the only time she was alone that day was when she left KK's house at 9:15.  This post suggests that she spoke with someone immediately before she went missing, which is news to me.  I haven't heard that before.



Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on July 30, 2009, 02:42:06 PM
about the white car in the area.  I have heard many different stories about a white car, from several different locals. 

we all know marylin's one. 

here is another this is coming from someone else.   
 the night she went missing, before she got to mommsen, before she crossed main (not sure exact location) she stopped at xxxxx and xxxxxxx house (i don't know them) she was asking to spend the night, they were having a slumber party.  a white car went by and she flipped out, went white, scared to death.  she asked to stay and they wouldn't let her.

So this is another group of girls she wanted to spend the night with, before she asked about KK's daughter spendng the night.  I wonder if it were the girls she had been swimming with all day that have the house across the street from the Shell station?

now keep in mind this is the local rumor mill I call it.  I have no reason to believe the people are lying, but I have no way of knowing if they are telling the truth or mistaken or they heard it here or there or what, but here it the rumor mill info

it is someone on maple street.  I have the names but I am not going to post them.  one person said it was at their house, another said no it was not at their house but at someone elses house on that street.  but it was on maple street.  both said it was on maple, just at different people's houses. 


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Edward on July 30, 2009, 02:46:13 PM
DoubleDecker
That is very interesting as that is exactly what my next door neighbors father picked when he came to Watsonville "Apples" As Martinelli Apple cider is made here..
Farmers got paid far more for Berries and one by one over the years most of the Orchards were removed and made into Berry fields as Orchards crop is a one time a year crop..
So you are saying they are all still working and follow orchard crops.. 
Very interesting and educational and it makes sense why I do not see them here..
Thank You


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on July 30, 2009, 02:46:48 PM
about the white car in the area.  I have heard many different stories about a white car, from several different locals. 

we all know marylin's one. 

here is another this is coming from someone else.   
 the night she went missing, before she got to mommsen, before she crossed main (not sure exact location) she stopped at xxxxx and xxxxxxx house (i don't know them) she was asking to spend the night, they were having a slumber party.  a white car went by and she flipped out, went white, scared to death.  she asked to stay and they wouldn't let her.

So this is another group of girls she wanted to spend the night with, before she asked about KK's daughter spendng the night.  I wonder if it were the girls she had been swimming with all day that have the house across the street from the Shell station?

Did this happen BEFORE or AFTER she left KK's house?  I'm a bit confused, because I thought the only time she was alone that day was when she left KK's house at 9:15.  This post suggests that she spoke with someone immediately before she went missing, which is news to me.  I haven't heard that before.



I have a lot of info that I stick in a file called the "local rumor mill".  I just leave the info there until something pops up that might have something to do with it.  I don't post this as FACT, I post it as these are things the locals say.  so it is just like if someone from mccleary came and posted here, we have no idea if what they say is true or not, we either believe them or we don't.  so I just stick this info in a file and try to figure out if it is true or not.  I don't see any reason people would make up the same lies. so that is all I can say about it. 

one person said this happened after she left kara's, I can't say what the other person said. 


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Tamikosmom on July 30, 2009, 02:50:41 PM
Considering the following ... why was a ten year old little girl ... with no means to defend herself ... put at risk by being allowed to walk the streets of McCleary without adult supervision.

Janet

++++++

mlachester 2 hours ago wrote:

I am close to her and I know a lot more than the media or law enforcement are saying right now. As for Scanner, sorry if you don't like the truth but I have never been one to keep the truth in and she should of been taken the first time she called 911 from my house asking for help instead of put in a police car and taken back to her abuser!"

http://www.king5.com/topstories/stor...omments_anchor


mlachester 1 day ago wrote:
Also people need to know Lindsey had told a friend a white car had been folling her and that another 11 year old girl was also talked to by someone a=in a white car the guy tryed to get her in by going as far as telling her she could drive the car. She ran and told her mom and yes the police knows this too.

http://www.king5.com/topstories/stor...omments_anchor


IIRC, this poster has been substantially discredited.


IIRC ... it was only Kara Kampen who discredited this poster who did not hide her identity when commenting.  When you consider that this poster who did not hide her identity revealed that 911 was called in regards to an incident ... I find her words very credible.  Somebody who does not hide her identity is not going to involve LE in fabrications ... a source that can be easily verify the truth the one way or another.

IMO

Janet

++++++

Residents of McCleary Speak Out

mlachester 1 day ago wrote:


To answer the questions everyone has asked, Yes I have talked to police and as far as things being unfounded its more of lazy work by cps and I don't know what the police were thinking. Since Lindsey has gone missing I have helped serch and put fliers up. I was called by the agents investigating and told them what I know. And this is no nick name everyone in McCleary knows who I am. Its no big secret she had came to my house to call 911 when her brother had done things to her. I hope lindsey is hiding and she finds a way to get to someone for help to tell them why. But as everyday gose by the fear gets worse.

http://www.king5.com/topstories/stories/NW_063009WAB-Mccleary-girl-search-LJ.1fc0b759.html?ocp=2#slcgm_comments_anchor


mlachester 2 hours ago wrote:

I am close to her and I know a lot more than the media or law enforcement are saying right now. … Sorry if you don't like the truth but I have never been one to keep the truth in and she should of been taken the first time she called 911 from my house asking for help instead of put in a police car and taken back to her abuser!"

http://www.king5.com/topstories/stor...omments_anchor


mamahead 13 hours ago wrote:
 
Lindsey has been afraid of her brother for a very long time. He has threatned her many times. Where is she? And why is the mother not crazy with sadness or emotion. Show us some tears. The friend that Lindsey was last with shows more emotion than the mother. And why was the brother begging for money for fireworks at his little sisters candlelight vigil?

http://www.king5.com/topstories/stories/NW_070609WAB-missing-mccleary-girl-SW.14c01624.html


KaraK
Re: Lindsey Baum, 10y missing from McCleary, WA 6/26/09
« Reply #1762 on: July 09, 2009, 12:42:02 AM
»

*** Does Lindsey's brother have a standing reputation in the community ??

Yes, not a real good one - with the kids at least. I have not met anyone who claims to be his friend.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=5541.msg870856#msg870856

Kara Kampen – Mother of Lindsey’s friend Michaela


KaraK
Re: Lindsey Baum, 10y missing from McCleary, WA 6/26/09
« Reply #1602 on: July 08, 2009, 01:51:08 AM »


Lindsey's brother has a temper but to seriously hurt her I do not think so -  I've seen them fight and argue numerous times and know he gets mad for a minute and then he's over it. They both are a bit temperamental but he especially thinks highly of Lindsey and nothing in me since she's gone missing made me think he was any way involved. - Now that is just my gut feeling topped with the lack of any form of transportation.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=5541.msg869280;topicseen#msg869280

Kara Kampen – Mother of Lindsey’s friend Michaela.


KaraK
Re: Lindsey Baum, 10y missing from McCleary, WA 6/26/09
« Reply #1809 on: July 09, 2009, 04:33:45 AM »


Josh had gotten into so many spats that honestly were in a large part things he did not start but because he was the oldest he was the one who got in trouble. I've set down kids I've never met before to have a talk with them because I heard that they were antagonizing him to see if he'd blow up.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=5541.msg871164;topicseen#msg871164

Kara Kampen – Mother of Lindsey’s friend Michaela.


KaraK
Re: Lindsey Baum, 10y missing from McCleary, WA 6/26/09
« Reply #1795 on: July 09, 2009, 03:13:01 AM »


I am no Dr and I never dug but he does take medication for some condition - more mental than physical. He is not what kids would call "cool" and strikes you as being younger than he actually is if you talk to him. He came over a few times and we'd talk about something and he'd start jabbering about something completely off topic - when we were all out looking for Lindsey I was trying to talk to him about where we'd already looked and he just wanted to know if my son could come over the next day. So I guess you could say unfocused.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=5541.msg871046;topicseen#msg871046

Kara Kampen – Mother of Lindsey’s friend Michaela


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on July 30, 2009, 02:52:15 PM
DoubleDecker
That is very interesting as that is exactly what my next door neighbors father picked when he came to Watsonville "Apples" As Martinelli Apple cider is made here..
Farmers got paid far more for Berries and one by one over the years most of the Orchards were removed and made into Berry fields as Orchards crop is a one time a year crop..
So you are saying they are all still working and follow orchard crops.. 
Very interesting and educational and it makes sense why I do not see them here..
Thank You

a lot of the younger generation of these people have stopped the circuit but there are some still do.  And some have died now but others still do it.  it is a close knit group, they marry into one another's familes etc, heck some marry their own cousins.  STILL, not back in the 1800's when that was common.  the group is still very intact.  kids have grown up thinking they are really part of that family, but they aren't, they are stolen kids.  crazy. several years ago someone told it all, but nothing done about it.  it's amazing what goes on and no one cares.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: JessStar on July 30, 2009, 03:01:55 PM
about the white car in the area.  I have heard many different stories about a white car, from several different locals. 

we all know marylin's one. 

here is another this is coming from someone else.   
 the night she went missing, before she got to mommsen, before she crossed main (not sure exact location) she stopped at xxxxx and xxxxxxx house (i don't know them) she was asking to spend the night, they were having a slumber party.  a white car went by and she flipped out, went white, scared to death.  she asked to stay and they wouldn't let her.

So this is another group of girls she wanted to spend the night with, before she asked about KK's daughter spendng the night.  I wonder if it were the girls she had been swimming with all day that have the house across the street from the Shell station?

Did this happen BEFORE or AFTER she left KK's house?  I'm a bit confused, because I thought the only time she was alone that day was when she left KK's house at 9:15.  This post suggests that she spoke with someone immediately before she went missing, which is news to me.  I haven't heard that before.



I have a lot of info that I stick in a file called the "local rumor mill".  I just leave the info there until something pops up that might have something to do with it.  I don't post this as FACT, I post it as these are things the locals say.  so it is just like if someone from mccleary came and posted here, we have no idea if what they say is true or not, we either believe them or we don't.  so I just stick this info in a file and try to figure out if it is true or not.  I don't see any reason people would make up the same lies. so that is all I can say about it. 

one person said this happened after she left kara's, I can't say what the other person said.  

You don't need to...I think I have a pretty good idea.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on July 30, 2009, 03:02:49 PM
about the white car in the area.  I have heard many different stories about a white car, from several different locals. 

we all know marylin's one. 

here is another this is coming from someone else.   
 the night she went missing, before she got to mommsen, before she crossed main (not sure exact location) she stopped at xxxxx and xxxxxxx house (i don't know them) she was asking to spend the night, they were having a slumber party.  a white car went by and she flipped out, went white, scared to death.  she asked to stay and they wouldn't let her.

So this is another group of girls she wanted to spend the night with, before she asked about KK's daughter spendng the night.  I wonder if it were the girls she had been swimming with all day that have the house across the street from the Shell station?

Did this happen BEFORE or AFTER she left KK's house?  I'm a bit confused, because I thought the only time she was alone that day was when she left KK's house at 9:15.  This post suggests that she spoke with someone immediately before she went missing, which is news to me.  I haven't heard that before.



I have a lot of info that I stick in a file called the "local rumor mill".  I just leave the info there until something pops up that might have something to do with it.  I don't post this as FACT, I post it as these are things the locals say.  so it is just like if someone from mccleary came and posted here, we have no idea if what they say is true or not, we either believe them or we don't.  so I just stick this info in a file and try to figure out if it is true or not.  I don't see any reason people would make up the same lies. so that is all I can say about it. 

one person said this happened after she left kara's, I can't say what the other person said.  

You don't need to...I think I have a pretty good idea.
oKay Kool


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: no rose colored glasses on July 30, 2009, 03:20:44 PM
and then someone else, totally different person said her daughter was followed by a white car
Just so I'm clear, there were several people in town, saying about a white car?

yes these are all different people with different incidences.  Now these are locals saying this.  you know how the local rumor mill can spin. but this is what I have been told.  but with this many people saying it, you would think there really is a white car following people.
Thank-you, yes this to me is very important info.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: sunshine12 on July 30, 2009, 03:33:23 PM
i believe that if lindsey's face turned white as a ghost after she saw the white car drive by and was told 'no' to another sleepover, she must have known this person or been afraid to tell someone that they were following her, maybe she thought she'd get in trouble? i dont know...im trying to wrap my mind around this case.

did these eye witnesses say it was a car or a truck?


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: AZSunny on July 30, 2009, 03:35:07 PM
i believe that if lindsey's face turned white as a ghost after she saw the white car drive by and was told 'no' to another sleepover, she must have known this person or been afraid to tell someone that they were following her, maybe she thought she'd get in trouble? i dont know...im trying to wrap my mind around this case.

did these eye witnesses say it was a car or a truck?

or possibly a van.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: no rose colored glasses on July 30, 2009, 03:39:49 PM
i believe that if lindsey's face turned white as a ghost after she saw the white car drive by and was told 'no' to another sleepover, she must have known this person or been afraid to tell someone that they were following her, maybe she thought she'd get in trouble? i dont know...im trying to wrap my mind around this case.

did these eye witnesses say it was a car or a truck?

or possibly a van.
What I'm try to figure out, is if this little girl was so frightened by this white car, I wonder why she didn't say something to the parent at the second home she went to that night, or ask if someone would walk home with her. So now this is two different set of people that let a 10 year old walk home alone.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on July 30, 2009, 03:45:47 PM
i believe that if lindsey's face turned white as a ghost after she saw the white car drive by and was told 'no' to another sleepover, she must have known this person or been afraid to tell someone that they were following her, maybe she thought she'd get in trouble? i dont know...im trying to wrap my mind around this case.

did these eye witnesses say it was a car or a truck?

they all call it a white car



there is another rumor mill story about a  pickup; a sharp looking metallic tan color, late 80's model with an egg-shell colored canopy (as described);

pickup about 200 feet back on this little logging road type of thing, two women see the truck after they see a man in the bushes the day after lindsey is missing.  this is on 1st and deck, (1st called "old dusty").  they try to talk loud to get the man to come out, he gets quiet they can't figure out where he went, then they run into the truck parked right there, so they tell the police, police tells them to write it all down on a piece of paper he gives them, they want him to go look now so the man can't drive off, he doesn't. 

the guy was stocky guy in light brown, light brown shorts, light brown shirt, light brown baseball cap. about 5'8" or a little taller.

now these are just stories I here, for all I know they could be all mixed up

i need to go, I have to go run town errands ugh. bbl


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on July 30, 2009, 03:47:30 PM
i believe that if lindsey's face turned white as a ghost after she saw the white car drive by and was told 'no' to another sleepover, she must have known this person or been afraid to tell someone that they were following her, maybe she thought she'd get in trouble? i dont know...im trying to wrap my mind around this case.

did these eye witnesses say it was a car or a truck?

or possibly a van.
What I'm try to figure out, is if this little girl was so frightened by this white car, I wonder why she didn't say something to the parent at the second home she went to that night, or ask if someone would walk home with her. So now this is two different set of people that let a 10 year old walk home alone.

they knew she was afraid, how else would they know she saw the car and flipped out turned white and was scared to death.  they sent her off anyway!!!!  whoever actually did it... according to someone


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on July 30, 2009, 03:51:12 PM
so one more thing "I" am thinking here

maybe she really did start down maple, get scared and double back on 6th to get away from this car?  that would explain why the dog trailing at first ended up on 6th and stopped and it would have been the freshest scent so that would make it to where the maple trail would not count. 



Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on July 30, 2009, 03:51:52 PM
ok I am going to be late for appt. if I don't get off of here. bbl


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: no rose colored glasses on July 30, 2009, 04:16:54 PM
Why in the world would a 10 year old be wanting to find a place to spend the night. Was she afraid to go home? Was she in trouble at home? Was she not getting along at home, so she is out asking to spend the night. Something is not right with this.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Rob on July 30, 2009, 04:39:14 PM
by this point, I would have to believe that all these rumor mill stories have been checked out. It's been a month.

I also believe the police when they say they don't have much to go on and no particular direction... although, they say someone local.

That's hard to believe as almost everyone in the town and the surrounding counties seems to have been cleared and there is no POI or focal point. There are only 1500 people in town and only so many would have access to Lindsey and a chance for a clear cut get-a-way.

As all the people in town are seemingly accounted for and none seem to be exhibiting a change in behavior or suddenly quitting a job, that would indicate that if Lindsey was taken by a townie - she's deceased and no one is tending to her care.

With child abductors, the child is killed with in 3 hours in about 75% of the cases... sorry to say so and my intend is not to be insensitive. Just stating the fact.

Also with child abduction, the abductor can not replace that abducted child very easily. So they sometime do tend to keep the child alive and Shawn Hornbeck is a prime example. Although Shawn was likely to be re-placed by Ben Ownsby but none the less, Shawn was kept alive for about 4-5 years.

In my humble opinion, it doesn't have the hallmarks of a local to me. With only so many people who would abduct and only so many likely suspects with access to THE abduction, it seems more than likely to me that this someone not from the area and that's the main reason why the case is still unsolved.

I know that there are those that think someone knows something and has kept that info confidential. For me, that's hard to believe at this point. Someone usually say something and there are more than enough people willing to speak to strangers on a message board. So, people are talking but the leads are not producing anything so far to date.

 


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Tamikosmom on July 30, 2009, 04:50:06 PM
Why in the world would a 10 year old be wanting to find a place to spend the night. Was she afraid to go home? Was she in trouble at home? Was she not getting along at home, so she is out asking to spend the night. Something is not right with this.

I am 62 years of age and ... I can remember collaborating with friends regarding spending the night at each others home ... regarding how were going to convince our parents.  Sleepovers were fun.

The only part of the scenario that bothers me is the adults who made choices for a ten year old that were not in her best interest.  There is no way I would send any ten year old away from my home to walk the streets defenceless against the dangers that lurk.

It did not concern Kara Kampen or Scott Williams who sent Lindsey on her way and it did not concern Melissa Baum as long as Lindsey met her ten o'clock curfrew.  For crying out loud ... my 11 year old grandson is in bed at 10:00 PM ... not walking the streets of town unsupervised.

Janet

++++

KARA KAMPEN

The Daily World - July 3, 2009


McCLEARY — Kara Kampen said she thought nothing of it when Lindsey Baum walked out of her house at about 9:15 p.m. last Friday.

http://**/articles/2009/07/03/local_news/doc4a4e415cdb51d302573546.txt


SCOTT WILLIAMS

KOMO News - June 28, 2009


Lindsey was going to walk the four blocks to her home on Mommsen Road, which is roughly a 10-minute walk. But something happened in that short distance - Lindsey never arrived home ...

The friend's father, Scott Williams, said he asked Lindsey to go home before it got too dark.

"She was here 10, 15 minutes, and then, you know, we said, 'You should probably get going before it gets dark,' and that was the last we heard of her," he said.

Witnesses say Lindsey seemed normal as she headed out around 9:15.

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/49383897.html


MELISSA BAUM

Where is Lindsey Baum? Police, FBI Search for 10-Year-Old
Girl's Mother Frantic After Lindsey Never Made it Home From a Friend's House
By SARAH NETTER
June 30, 2009


Baum said her children began squabbling over the use of Josh's bike on the way there and were stopped by a family friend who sent Josh home to end the argument. Lindsey continued on to her friend's house. When Lindsey's friend found out she couldn't stay the night, Lindsey headed for home around 9:30 p.m.

"When she wasn't home by 10, I started to get nervous," Baum said, adding that 10 p.m. is the curfew for her children.
 
http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=7966924&page=1


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Edward on July 30, 2009, 05:00:02 PM
You are so correct Rob on all of what you wrote..
 People do not want to hear the facts but they are the facts.. Stranger abductions.. 75% 3 hours, dead. The perp is driven by fear of getting caught and suffers from guilt and he murders the victim to take away both from his conscience..

Shawn and Ben situations is a rare events ... The family wants to hang on to that hope.
I would too. Anybody would.

 I myself will discount the white car until we hear an official report or a witness on news media telling everyone that she was going house to house looking for some place to sleep over and or she was afraid of a car and especially that part of her face turning white as a ghost..
It all sounds crazy.. It Prolly is..

We have neighbors of hers, they are here and posting, not one of them has made such a claim..
The only part I have read is that her brother has fits and that she was in fear of him..
Once I had seen his picture I have doubts about that also..

Although her acting older then what she is and being on the Internet with such claims is alarming... Still, I think this was a stranger abduction or somebody she knew as an acquaintance..
 I have doubts she would just get into a vehicle. But many of the abduction attempts near Escondido were near force or were by force and somebody could have just grabber Lindsey right off a street corner.
 It happens to adult women and I am sure it could happen to a child with ease and in seconds.






Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: no rose colored glasses on July 30, 2009, 05:02:26 PM
I hear what you are saying, and slumber parties were fun. This seems more to me that Lindsey just didn't want to go home. After not being able to sleep at her friends house, it just seems odd she would go to another friend's house to sleep over. But what is even stranger is two sets of adults didn't even think to walk this child home  ::MonkeyNoNo::


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: JessStar on July 30, 2009, 05:16:12 PM


With child abductors, the child is killed with in 3 hours in about 75% of the cases... sorry to say so and my intend is not to be insensitive. Just stating the fact.
 

This needs some clarification because in a vacuum, this statistic is misleading.  What the statistic says is that OF THOSE CHILDREN WHO ARE ABDUCTED AND MURDERED, 75% of them have been murdered within 3 hours. It doesn't say that 75% of children who are abducted are murdered within 3 hours.  On the contrary, according to the Department of Justice statistics, 60% of children who are abducted by strangers are found alive.

Now, all of these statistics need to be tempered by the motivation behind the abduction.  As the motivation becomes more sinister, the likelihood that the child will be murdered increases.



Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: rebelgirl901 on July 30, 2009, 05:17:29 PM
about the white car in the area.  I have heard many different stories about a white car, from several different locals. 

we all know marylin's one. 

here is another this is coming from someone else.   
 the night she went missing, before she got to mommsen, before she crossed main (not sure exact location) she stopped at xxxxx and xxxxxxx house (i don't know them) she was asking to spend the night, they were having a slumber party.  a white car went by and she flipped out, went white, scared to death.  she asked to stay and they wouldn't let her.

This is very disturbing.  We hear from Lindsey's mom that she is terrified of the dark so you would think that since she was walking home 1/2 mile, 4 blocks, 6 blocks, whatever the distance and it was getting close to dark that she would be getting home as quickly as possible to avoid being out after dark.  Also, she has a 10 o'clock curfew and it's already after 9.  Why in this world is she at another persons house asking to spend the night?  Does she go all over town asking people if she can spend the night?  hmmmmm

Let's see...perhaps she leaves KK's house after being told she cannot spend the night, she's heading down maple toward her house and spots the white car that she has seen around town and she gets spooked, she turns around and heads back towards this other friends house to see if she can spend the night there and they tell her no.  Now she is alone again with this white car following her and nobody will let her stay over.  Poor girl, she must have been terrified.   Now this makes me angry.   They could see she was frightened but yet they turned her away to walk home all alone and it's nearly dark.  I myself have taken children home when I have learned they would be alone.  This is just heartbreaking.  This poor girl was scared and no one to help her.  I wonder if she ever mentioned to anyone that someone in a white car was following her?  Did she not think to ask someone to take her home?  This really bothers me.  If it had been me, I would have either let her stay or drove her home or at least walked home with her to make sure she was safe.  WOW!  I'm sorry but I just don't understand.  :smt089


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: AZSunny on July 30, 2009, 05:19:33 PM
You are so correct Rob on all of what you wrote..
 People do not want to hear the facts but they are the facts.. Stranger abductions.. 75% 3 hours, dead. The perp is driven by fear of getting caught and suffers from guilt and he murders the victim to take away both from his conscience..

Shawn and Ben situations is a rare events ... The family wants to hang on to that hope.
I would too. Anybody would.

 I myself will discount the white car until we hear an official report or a witness on news media telling everyone that she was going house to house looking for some place to sleep over and or she was afraid of a car and especially that part of her face turning white as a ghost..
It all sounds crazy.. It Prolly is..

We have neighbors of hers, they are here and posting, not one of them has made such a claim..
The only part I have read is that her brother has fits and that she was in fear of him..
Once I had seen his picture I have doubts about that also..

Although her acting older then what she is and being on the Internet with such claims is alarming... Still, I think this was a stranger abduction or somebody she knew as an acquaintance..
 I have doubts she would just get into a vehicle. But many of the abduction attempts near Escondido were near force or were by force and somebody could have just grabber Lindsey right off a street corner.
 It happens to adult women and I am sure it could happen to a child with ease and in seconds.






One of my  concerns is she was on the internet, and had posted on myspace (at 10 years old!)  She posted on a 20 year old males myspace site, and he lived in McCleary. (it had tons of Mickey Mouse stuff on it, as I recall)  I think her website name on myspace was Defender.  Which struck me as an odd choice of names.  (I read that somewhere,  and I believe that is what I saw on myspace,so if I am wrong about the name, please tell me.)  I did see the posting on the 20 year olds myspace.  Nothing alarming just a posting.  Maybe I am not hip, but my 10 year old daugher does not have a myspace account, nor has she heard of such things.  She plays on a Webkins account that is protected, that is it.(and only with a parents approval)   Are things changing so much and I am not keeping up? 


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: rebelgirl901 on July 30, 2009, 05:20:33 PM
Why in the world would a 10 year old be wanting to find a place to spend the night. Was she afraid to go home? Was she in trouble at home? Was she not getting along at home, so she is out asking to spend the night. Something is not right with this.

That's what I'm thinking now after reading that see stopped at another persons house and asked to spend the night.  It seems as though she did not want to go home.  That is sad.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Rob on July 30, 2009, 05:22:03 PM


With child abductors, the child is killed with in 3 hours in about 75% of the cases... sorry to say so and my intend is not to be insensitive. Just stating the fact.
 

This needs some clarification because in a vacuum, this statistic is misleading.  What the statistic says is that OF THOSE CHILDREN WHO ARE ABDUCTED AND MURDERED, 75% of them have been murdered within 3 hours. It doesn't say that 75% of children who are abducted are murdered within 3 hours.  On the contrary, according to the Department of Justice statistics, 60% of children who are abducted by strangers are found alive.

Now, all of these statistics need to be tempered by the motivation behind the abduction.  As the motivation becomes more sinister, the likelihood that the child will be murdered increases.



credit chi-monkey - link in Amber's thread -

http://www.kidsearchnetwork.org/research-statistics.html

The Kidsearch Network believes that Immediate Response by an experienced search team is necessary. because, 1) there is typically over a two hour delay in making the initial missing child report (60%), and 2) the vast majority (74%) of the abducted children who are murdered are dead within three hours of the abduction. (Source: Attorney General of the State of Washington, who did a study of cases reported to law enforcement in 1997)

There are estimated to be about 100 cases per year in the US where a child is abducted and murdered. The victims of these cases are "average" children, leading normal lives, and living with normal families, typical low-risk victims. The vast majority of them are girls (76%), with the average age being slightly over 11 years of age. In 80% of cases, the initial contact between the victim and killer is within 1/4 mile of the victim's residence.

Over half (57%) of these child abduction murders are committed by a killer who is a stranger to the victim. Family involvement in this type of case is infrequent (9%). However, the relationship between the victim and the killer varies with the gender and age of the victim. The youngest females, 1-5 years old, tend to be killed by friends or acquaintances (64%), while the oldest females, 16-17 years old, tend to be killed by strangers (also 64%). The relationship between the killer and victim is different for the male victims. The youngest male victims (1-5 years old) are most likely to be killed by strangers (also 64%), as are the teenage males (13-15 years old, 60% and 16-17 years old, 58%).

The average age of killers of abducted children is around 27 years old. They are predominantly unmarried (85%) and half of them (51%) either live alone (17%) or with their parents (34%). Half of them are unemployed, and those that are employed work in unskilled or semi-skilled labor occupations. Therefore, the killers can generally be characterized as "social marginals."

Almost two-thirds of the killers (61%) had prior arrests for violent crimes, with slightly more than half of the killers' prior crimes (53%) committed against children. The most frequent prior crimes against children were rape (31% of killers) and other sexual assault (45% of killers). Sixty-seven percent of the child abduction murderers' prior crimes were similar in M.O. to the murder that was committed by the same killer.

Commonly, the killers are at the initial victim-killer contact site for a legitimate reason (66%). They either lived in the area (29%) or were engaging in some normal activity. Most of the victims of child abduction murder are victims of opportunity (57%). Only in 14 percent of cases did the killer choose his victim because of some physical characteristic of the victim. The primary motivation for the child abduction murder is sexual assault.

After the victim has been killed, 52 percent of the bodies are concealed to prevent discovery. In only 9% of cases is the body openly placed to insure its discovery.

A unique pattern of distance relationships exists in child abduction murders. The initial contact site is within 1/4 mile of the victim's last known location in 80% of cases. Conversely, the distance between the initial contact site and the murder site increases to distances greater than 1/4 mile (54%). The distance from the murder site to the body recovery site again decreases, to less than 200 feet in 72 percent of cases.

It was discovered that once the murder investigation has begun, the name of the killer is known to the police within the first week in 74% of cases.

While at times the media seems to "get in the way," in the end they are much more likely to have a positive effect on the investigation (31% of cases) than a negative one (6% of cases). In short, the media are more likely to bring witnesses forward than to aid the killer in his escape. The media had no effect at all in 63% of the investigations.

National Estimates of Missing Children (PDF)

Nonfamily Abducted Children: National Estimates and Characteristics (PDF)

Children Abducted by Family Members: National Estimates and Characteristics (PDF)

Runaway/Thrownaway Children: National Estimates and Characteristics (PDF)

Child Abuse and Neglect Statistics and Research

Statistical Data on Statuatory Rape (PDF)

Statistics on Teenagers/Juveniles as Victims (PDF)


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: sunshine12 on July 30, 2009, 05:23:31 PM
this case is so frustrating, its so hard for me not to get carried away with all of the information that has been pulled up about adam campbell, and the local rumor mill and really stick with the facts of the case.

i will try to stick with with the ockham's razor (hopefully i spelled that right) theory.  i dont know if this would be beneficial but i am going to go back and read through the first threads and the timelines of the case and start brainstorming again from the FACTS we have (unfortunately they are few and far between)...

i think the FACTS in this case indicate a stranger/aquaintance abduction or unfortunately someone in law enforcement


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: JessStar on July 30, 2009, 05:28:22 PM
Rob, you post made my point. It clearly says of those children who are murdered, 75 percent are murdered within 3 hours.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Tamikosmom on July 30, 2009, 06:03:38 PM
Why in the world would a 10 year old be wanting to find a place to spend the night. Was she afraid to go home? Was she in trouble at home? Was she not getting along at home, so she is out asking to spend the night. Something is not right with this.

That's what I'm thinking now after reading that see stopped at another persons house and asked to spend the night.  It seems as though she did not want to go home.  That is sad.

Where is the info coming from that that Lindsey asked to spend the night at Michaela's home.  According to Michaela's mother the overnighter discussion occured between Lindsey and her daughter on the walk from the Baums.  In other words ... both girls were anticipating a sleepover.  Nothing out of the ordinary.  Nothing "sad".

Janet

+++++

KaraK
Re: Lindsey Baum, 10y missing from McCleary, WA 6/26/09
« Reply #1081 on: July 05, 2009, 04:00:50 AM »

According to my daughter the thought of anyone spending the night at my house was thought up on the way to my house. So, Lindsey's mom would have had reason to be worried when she did not show up by 10ish because she at that time was (to my knowledge) not aware the girls had asked me or were going to ask to spend the night at my house or that I'd said no.  I believe she was under the impression that both girls would be coming back to her house which would take them longer because Kayla has to bring along many outfits if she stays the night.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=5541.msg864834#msg864834




Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: AZSunny on July 30, 2009, 06:11:22 PM
Why in the world would a 10 year old be wanting to find a place to spend the night. Was she afraid to go home? Was she in trouble at home? Was she not getting along at home, so she is out asking to spend the night. Something is not right with this.

That's what I'm thinking now after reading that see stopped at another persons house and asked to spend the night.  It seems as though she did not want to go home.  That is sad.

Where is the info coming from that that Lindsey asked to spend the night at Michaela's home.  According to Michaela's mother the overnighter discussion occured between Lindsey and her daughter on the walk from the Baums.  In other words ... both girls were anticipating a sleepover.  Nothing out of the ordinary.  Nothing "sad".

Janet

+++++

KaraK
Re: Lindsey Baum, 10y missing from McCleary, WA 6/26/09
« Reply #1081 on: July 05, 2009, 04:00:50 AM »

According to my daughter the thought of anyone spending the night at my house was thought up on the way to my house. So, Lindsey's mom would have had reason to be worried when she did not show up by 10ish because she at that time was (to my knowledge) not aware the girls had asked me or were going to ask to spend the night at my house or that I'd said no.  I believe she was under the impression that both girls would be coming back to her house which would take them longer because Kayla has to bring along many outfits if she stays the night.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=5541.msg864834#msg864834




I think they are talking about her stopping at another friends house asking to spend the night after she left Michaela's.  A request of a second friend. It is rumored she stopped there after leaving Michaels.   


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: no rose colored glasses on July 30, 2009, 06:33:07 PM
As of now it is rumored that she stopped at another friend's house after leaving Michaela's house, and that she was scared. And if that is true, what a shame nobody walked her home. I guess what I'm wondering is if that happened was it dark when she left the second friend's house?


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: JessStar on July 30, 2009, 06:39:13 PM
If this is true, and people knew she was scared, then shame on the people of McCleary to allow a scared child to walk home alone-especially if they knew or suspected the reason why she was scared. This poor child.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: no rose colored glasses on July 30, 2009, 06:45:30 PM
If this is true, and people knew she was scared, then shame on the people of McCleary to allow a scared child to walk home alone-especially if they knew or suspected the reason why she was scared. This poor child.
It is very hard for me to understand this, I would never have allowed one of my kids friends to walk home alone when they were little. If this is true, I would love to know what Lindsey said when she got to the second home. You would even think the parent might have called Lindsey's mother even to walk over and walk her home.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: JessStar on July 30, 2009, 07:00:54 PM
Exactly Rose. Totally foreign to me. I've taken my little girl's friends home on numerous occasions. Of course, so much is rumor, who knows what to believe.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on July 30, 2009, 07:43:45 PM
I'm back.   when I posted the "local rumor mill" info I was very careful to be sure to say "LOCAL RUMOR MILL" .  I think if someone came on the board to read and came in the middle of this they would start thinking this "IS" (fact) what happened.  I really try not to bring any "rumor mill" info to the board.  I have had and still do have a lot of "rumor mill" info and this is the first time I have shared any of it.  I don't like "rumor mill" info unless it starts to add up to other things in the case that it might substaniate.  I pe

rsonally do not want to start rumors. 

I think perhaps when we discuss the "rumor mill" info we might want to ALWAY add "rumor mill" info.  If we don't it will get a few pages down the line and others will read it and start saying it as fact.  ugh. 

but like it said, it is the same if someone from mccleary comes to the board and posts, it's still rumor really.  whether they post it on the board or they email it to me, it is all the same, so I thought perhaps I should share the "rumor mill" info.  Now I am not so sure. 
gee sorry and hope no one gets confused. 

perhaps I should have never said anything... ugh...



Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: KarmaRoundUp on July 30, 2009, 07:50:41 PM
Police chase leads on missing McCleary girl

Searchers returned to the streets of McCleary under a brutal sun Tuesday to follow up on new leads in the hunt for 11-year-old Lindsey Baum, according to The Daily World of Aberdeen.

About 25 officers and searchers with dogs braved near-record temperatures to re-canvass areas of town, Grays Harbor Undersheriff Rick Scott said.

A recent $6,000 reward for information in the missing girl’s case has produced a new wave of tips, Scott said. Surrounding law enforcement agencies including the Thurston County Sheriff’s Office and the Aberdeen Police Department sent officers to help perform follow-up searches and interviews.

About six core investigators have been leading the effort to find Lindsey, who disappeared while walking a few blocks home June 26. The detectives have found no evidence explaining the 4-foot-9, brown-haired girl’s disappearance, but they continue sorting through thousands of tips.

Officers and volunteers knocked on doors throughout town Tuesday, asking new questions and trying to reach people missed in previous interviews, Scott said.

Two teams with cadaver search dogs also roamed the town, he said, but the hot conditions limited the available scents and quickly wore out the dogs.

Scott said detectives and extra officers expect to follow up on new tips in town for at least the rest of the week. He asked anyone with any potentially helpful information to call 866-915-8299.

http://www.thenewstribune.com/partners/theolympian/story/827963.html


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: AZSunny on July 30, 2009, 08:03:36 PM
I'm back.   when I posted the "local rumor mill" info I was very careful to be sure to say "LOCAL RUMOR MILL" .  I think if someone came on the board to read and came in the middle of this they would start thinking this "IS" (fact) what happened.  I really try not to bring any "rumor mill" info to the board.  I have had and still do have a lot of "rumor mill" info and this is the first time I have shared any of it.  I don't like "rumor mill" info unless it starts to add up to other things in the case that it might substaniate.  I pe

rsonally do not want to start rumors. 

I think perhaps when we discuss the "rumor mill" info we might want to ALWAY add "rumor mill" info.  If we don't it will get a few pages down the line and others will read it and start saying it as fact.  ugh. 

but like it said, it is the same if someone from mccleary comes to the board and posts, it's still rumor really.  whether they post it on the board or they email it to me, it is all the same, so I thought perhaps I should share the "rumor mill" info.  Now I am not so sure. 
gee sorry and hope no one gets confused. 

perhaps I should have never said anything... ugh...


I personally would like to hear the rumors from the locals.  I do agree that we should tag if from 'rumor mill', but I would like to know what the talk around the town is.  You never know when there is a thread that links, or truth involved that ties in to something else.  I understand your position though.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: AZSunny on July 30, 2009, 08:05:47 PM
Police chase leads on missing McCleary girl

Searchers returned to the streets of McCleary under a brutal sun Tuesday to follow up on new leads in the hunt for 11-year-old Lindsey Baum, according to The Daily World of Aberdeen.

About 25 officers and searchers with dogs braved near-record temperatures to re-canvass areas of town, Grays Harbor Undersheriff Rick Scott said.

A recent $6,000 reward for information in the missing girl’s case has produced a new wave of tips, Scott said. Surrounding law enforcement agencies including the Thurston County Sheriff’s Office and the Aberdeen Police Department sent officers to help perform follow-up searches and interviews.

About six core investigators have been leading the effort to find Lindsey, who disappeared while walking a few blocks home June 26. The detectives have found no evidence explaining the 4-foot-9, brown-haired girl’s disappearance, but they continue sorting through thousands of tips.

Officers and volunteers knocked on doors throughout town Tuesday, asking new questions and trying to reach people missed in previous interviews, Scott said.

Two teams with cadaver search dogs also roamed the town, he said, but the hot conditions limited the available scents and quickly wore out the dogs.

Scott said detectives and extra officers expect to follow up on new tips in town for at least the rest of the week. He asked anyone with any potentially helpful information to call 866-915-8299.

http://www.thenewstribune.com/partners/theolympian/story/827963.html


Why no "new" news coming from them if they are still there?  Appears to be confirmation of cadaver search dogs. 


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Tamikosmom on July 30, 2009, 08:26:13 PM
As of now it is rumored that she stopped at another friend's house after leaving Michaela's house, and that she was scared. And if that is true, what a shame nobody walked her home. I guess what I'm wondering is if that happened was it dark when she left the second friend's house?

If this is true ... inquiring minds want to know was this was not revealed at the getgo.  I contend it would be consider obstruction of an investigation .

Something is not right.

If investigators knew that Lindsey was not last observed by a neighbour two blocks from her home on Maple and ... she had taken another route to a friend's home ...  this info should have been publicly released immediately.

Janet

++++++

Grays Harbor Undersheriff Rick Scott  

ABC News – June 30, 2009


Scott said witnesses were able to put Lindsey within a couple of blocks of her house just after 9:30 p.m. The last person reported to have seen her, he said, was a neighbor on her way to work.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/Story?id=7966924&page=2


Grays Harbor Undersheriff Rick Scott  

The Daily World - July 2, 2009


Scott said a second person came forward Tuesday with a confirmed sighting of Baum from Friday night in the same area along Maple Street near Fifth Street.

http://**/articles/2009/07/02/local_news/doc4a4cf43c1b1dd881132403





Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: AZSunny on July 30, 2009, 08:43:34 PM
As of now it is rumored that she stopped at another friend's house after leaving Michaela's house, and that she was scared. And if that is true, what a shame nobody walked her home. I guess what I'm wondering is if that happened was it dark when she left the second friend's house?

If this is true ... inquiring minds want to know was this was not revealed at the getgo.  I contend it would be consider obstruction of an investigation .

Something is not right.

If investigators knew that Lindsey was not last observed by a neighbour two blocks from her home on Maple and ... she had taken another route to a friend's home ...  this info should have been publicly released immediately.

Janet

++++++

Grays Harbor Undersheriff Rick Scott  

ABC News – June 30, 2009


Scott said witnesses were able to put Lindsey within a couple of blocks of her house just after 9:30 p.m. The last person reported to have seen her, he said, was a neighbor on her way to work.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/Story?id=7966924&page=2


Grays Harbor Undersheriff Rick Scott  

The Daily World - July 2, 2009


Scott said a second person came forward Tuesday with a confirmed sighting of Baum from Friday night in the same area along Maple Street near Fifth Street.

http://**/articles/2009/07/02/local_news/doc4a4cf43c1b1dd881132403





Well, as DD said, it is just a rumor.  Even possible the "other friend" lived on Maple?? 


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: mamacrazy30 on July 30, 2009, 11:42:37 PM
so one more thing "I" am thinking here

maybe she really did start down maple, get scared and double back on 6th to get away from this car?  that would explain why the dog trailing at first ended up on 6th and stopped and it would have been the freshest scent so that would make it to where the maple trail would not count. 


be careful..i posted that before when karak was on the board and got major backlash...my line of thought as well....she was trying to go back the entire time...to a safe place, or a place she thought was safe.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: mamacrazy30 on July 30, 2009, 11:52:28 PM
okay..gonna' break this down...we have no info on this...le is a mess and so is the press...sorry ya'll but all we have is broken info...karaK did help for a second but then vanished....is her info correct?  can we believe what she says?  i don't know?  most think i'm a crack-pot here but thats okay with me--i know my intent and its to help find Lindsey....what do we know for a FACT...
#1:  Lindsey never came home that night....

do we Know and i mean is it a FACT that the broken down bike got to the house?


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on July 31, 2009, 12:02:16 AM
so one more thing "I" am thinking here

maybe she really did start down maple, get scared and double back on 6th to get away from this car?  that would explain why the dog trailing at first ended up on 6th and stopped and it would have been the freshest scent so that would make it to where the maple trail would not count. 


be careful..i posted that before when karak was on the board and got major backlash...my line of thought as well....she was trying to go back the entire time...to a safe place, or a place she thought was safe.

personally, I have always thought she doubled back down 6th.  I have always said that.  I really think someone was after her and she knew it and she was trying to get away from them


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: mamacrazy30 on July 31, 2009, 12:49:19 AM
so one more thing "I" am thinking here

maybe she really did start down maple, get scared and double back on 6th to get away from this car?  that would explain why the dog trailing at first ended up on 6th and stopped and it would have been the freshest scent so that would make it to where the maple trail would not count. 


be careful..i posted that before when karak was on the board and got major backlash...my line of thought as well....she was trying to go back the entire time...to a safe place, or a place she thought was safe.

personally, I have always thought she doubled back down 6th.  I have always said that.  I really think someone was after her and she knew it and she was trying to get away from them
just a thought ....
who from???  stranger/know?


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: A_News_Junkie_Monkey on July 31, 2009, 02:30:48 AM
Madibabe - I see you up there, many have been concerned about you.   Can you give us and update?


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: madibabe on July 31, 2009, 02:59:52 AM
lol you little monkeys can see me?  ::MonkeyHaHa:: I just popped on to read any news about little Lindsey. I have been so busy but keeping my eyes mind and ears open for any new developments or clues.
 My daughter was at camp for three days when it was suddenly closed due to a flu like symptoms outbreak. So my baby is super sick. I cant believe that in a matter of a hour timespan 60 campers were sick diarrhea vomiting including counselors. Anyway just wanted to let you know I'm still here and not going anyplace. I email dd when I'm on the road and get a idea. I cant post from my phone for some reason. It jumps around too much when quoting. Sweet Dreams Scared Monkeys See you tomorrow.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: JessStar on July 31, 2009, 08:09:13 AM
Perhaps the reason why so many neighbors have been seemingly uncooperative or unwilling to come forward is their own GUILT  for having turned away a scared child that was in danger who has now turned up missing.  Perhaps they could have saved her had they put their grudges aside and understood that it was an innocent 10 year old CHILD that was standing in front of them.  How shameful.  If this is the case, those people chose poorly, and now they have to live with that for the remainder of their lives.  They won't get any sympathy from me.  I'll save my tears for Lindsey.




Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: KarmaRoundUp on July 31, 2009, 09:08:33 AM
I posted this on the maps and photos thread but wanted to bring it here also as I didn't know Lindsey was chosen for this program.

This image was taken at the Shop With A Cop(link below),a program where 100 Cops pick a child and they go to a pancake breakfast then shopping for Christmas gifts with $100.00.
Looks like Lindsey was chosen.

http://shopwithacopgraysharbor.blogspot.com/search?updated-min=2008-01-01T00%3A00%3A00-08%3A00&updated-max=2009-01-01T00%3A00%3A00-08%3A00&max-results=7



Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: A_News_Junkie_Monkey on July 31, 2009, 10:22:26 AM
lol you little monkeys can see me?  ::MonkeyHaHa:: I just popped on to read any news about little Lindsey. I have been so busy but keeping my eyes mind and ears open for any new developments or clues.
 My daughter was at camp for three days when it was suddenly closed due to a flu like symptoms outbreak. So my baby is super sick. I cant believe that in a matter of a hour timespan 60 campers were sick diarrhea vomiting including counselors. Anyway just wanted to let you know I'm still here and not going anyplace. I email dd when I'm on the road and get a idea. I cant post from my phone for some reason. It jumps around too much when quoting. Sweet Dreams Scared Monkeys See you tomorrow.

Good to hear from you, but take care of your baby - hope she feels better real soon.   


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: no rose colored glasses on July 31, 2009, 10:30:49 AM
lol you little monkeys can see me?  ::MonkeyHaHa:: I just popped on to read any news about little Lindsey. I have been so busy but keeping my eyes mind and ears open for any new developments or clues.
 My daughter was at camp for three days when it was suddenly closed due to a flu like symptoms outbreak. So my baby is super sick. I cant believe that in a matter of a hour timespan 60 campers were sick diarrhea vomiting including counselors. Anyway just wanted to let you know I'm still here and not going anyplace. I email dd when I'm on the road and get a idea. I cant post from my phone for some reason. It jumps around too much when quoting. Sweet Dreams Scared Monkeys See you tomorrow.

Good to hear from you, but take care of your baby - hope she feels better real soon.   
I hope she feels better soon also, what a terrible experience for the kids at camp.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: rebelgirl901 on July 31, 2009, 11:19:48 AM
I'm back.   when I posted the "local rumor mill" info I was very careful to be sure to say "LOCAL RUMOR MILL" .  I think if someone came on the board to read and came in the middle of this they would start thinking this "IS" (fact) what happened.  I really try not to bring any "rumor mill" info to the board.  I have had and still do have a lot of "rumor mill" info and this is the first time I have shared any of it.  I don't like "rumor mill" info unless it starts to add up to other things in the case that it might substaniate.  I pe

rsonally do not want to start rumors. 

I think perhaps when we discuss the "rumor mill" info we might want to ALWAY add "rumor mill" info.  If we don't it will get a few pages down the line and others will read it and start saying it as fact.  ugh. 

but like it said, it is the same if someone from mccleary comes to the board and posts, it's still rumor really.  whether they post it on the board or they email it to me, it is all the same, so I thought perhaps I should share the "rumor mill" info.  Now I am not so sure. 
gee sorry and hope no one gets confused. 

perhaps I should have never said anything... ugh...



No that's okay d.d. I know it's rumor, so don't feel bad about posting what you hear, or receive regarding Lindsey.  Although rumor, there could be some hint of the truth in what you are hearing.  Like a lot of have been saying, somebody knows something.  As someone else posted, the reason why they haven't cooprated with l.e. is because they do feel guilty they didn't help Lindsey when they had the chance.  Regardless of how you feel about a family, when it comes to a child, you should never turn your back on them.  I don't understand.  But please don't stop posting any info you have (that you can post).   

Thanks for all your hard work, you have done some amazing research and I truly appreciate your efforts and your contributions to helping find Lindsey.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Tamikosmom on July 31, 2009, 11:40:51 AM
Perhaps the reason why so many neighbors have been seemingly uncooperative or unwilling to come forward is their own GUILT  for having turned away a scared child that was in danger who has now turned up missing.  Perhaps they could have saved her had they put their grudges aside and understood that it was an innocent 10 year old CHILD that was standing in front of them.  How shameful.  If this is the case, those people chose poorly, and now they have to live with that for the remainder of their lives.  They won't get any sympathy from me.  I'll save my tears for Lindsey.




JessStar

Is there credible backup that reveals that residents of McCleary turned away a "scared" Lindsey who was in danger.

In my world ... that would never happen.  My neighbours, friends and family would embrace any child who had a need.

I suspect that many McCleary residents are aware of the underlying dynamics encompassing the Baum household and believe that Lindsey made it home within minutes of being observed by the neighbour who was on her way to work.

In the process of elimination ... I hope that the concerns of McCleary residents in regards to Lindsey's brother were not not disregarded by Undersheriff Rick Scott.  I hope the concerns of Mccleary residents were taken seriously and ... Josh Baum was not ruled out as a person of interest without investigation ... without questioning and ... without searching.

Janet

++++++++

Grays Harbor Undersheriff Rick Scott

The Olympian - June 30, 2009

Lindsey left her cell phone at home before leaving to play with friends Friday, said Grays Harbor Undersheriff Rick Scott. Lindsey’s older brother had left the Maple Street residence before his sister after the two had a dispute over the bike Lindsey had borrowed from him that day – a common occurrence between frequently squabbling siblings, Scott added.

http://www.theolympian.com/southsound/story/896613.html


Residents of McCleary Speak Out

mlachester 1 day ago wrote:


... Its no big secret she had came to my house to call 911 when her brother had done things to her.

http://www.king5.com/topstories/stories/NW_063009WAB-Mccleary-girl-search-LJ.1fc0b759.html?ocp=2#slcgm_comments_anchor


mlachester 2 hours ago wrote:

I am close to her and I know a lot more than the media or law enforcement are saying right now. … Sorry if you don't like the truth but I have never been one to keep the truth in and she should of been taken the first time she called 911 from my house asking for help instead of put in a police car and taken back to her abuser!"

http://www.king5.com/topstories/stor...omments_anchor


mamahead 13 hours ago wrote:
 
Lindsey has been afraid of her brother for a very long time.  He has threatned her many times. Where is she? And why is the mother not crazy with sadness or emotion. Show us some tears. The friend that Lindsey was last with shows more emotion than the mother. And why was the brother begging for money for fireworks at his little sisters candlelight vigil?

http://www.king5.com/topstories/stories/NW_070609WAB-missing-mccleary-girl-SW.14c01624.html


Lindsey Baum

Lindsey Baum:  Facebook Entry

TWILIGHT FREAK is happy that her brother is going to juvi tomorrow.Mood: happ at 14:10 17 Jun view more

Lindsey Baum is happy that her brother is going to juvie tomorrow.
Mood: Happ at 14:10 17 June

http://www.myspace.com/477760045


Melissa Baum

KING 5 News – July 2, 2009


If a stranger kidnapped 10-year-old Lindsey Baum, her mother says the girl would have put up a fight

“She has very long fingernails,” said Melissa Baum. “Her brother is proof enough of that.”

http://www.king5.com/topstories/stories/NW_070209WAB-mccleary-KS.67b0a9.html




Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Edward on July 31, 2009, 11:57:25 AM
I have been looking for some true statistics relative to stranger abductions but have not been able to find anything more then supposed professional opinions.. I do not trust most professionals.. There opinions make for good toilet paper most of the time.

When I look at news reports..
  I find that most all of children abducted by strangers, that the child is found murdered or not found at all most of the time.
  In news reports "which may only show a small percentage of cases" I find very few children found alive and happy.
So based on that I would consider 90 percent of stranger abductions that the victim is murdered..
Stranger abductions is a small percentage of abductions as parental abductions appear to be the most common in occurrence.


Anyone who can find true statistics by a government agency who tacks every incident please post a link as I would really like to read it for my own education.
Thank You.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: AZSunny on July 31, 2009, 12:04:43 PM
This post from Lindsey's Myspace account haunts me.  What was causing these feelings? 

TWILIGHT FREAKi've been getting a lot of nightmares latley and i have this bad feeling that something bads gonna happenat 6:48 AM May 29 Mood:scared 


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Edward on July 31, 2009, 12:07:05 PM
That was very insightful on her part..


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Tamikosmom on July 31, 2009, 12:14:06 PM
AZSunny


 ::MonkeyAngel::

Love, Janet

+++++

AZSunny
Re: Lindsey Baum #2
« Reply #634 on: July 20, 2009, 02:08:05 AM »


Janet,  dreading the 1st of August.  That is the day I lost my husband.  I am trying so hard to focus on other things, but it is like an elephant standing in front of me.  I miss him so much it physically hurts.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=5627.msg882622#msg882622


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: sherip on July 31, 2009, 12:14:39 PM
I posted this on the maps and photos thread but wanted to bring it here also as I didn't know Lindsey was chosen for this program.

This image was taken at the Shop With A Cop(link below),a program where 100 Cops pick a child and they go to a pancake breakfast then shopping for Christmas gifts with $100.00.
Looks like Lindsey was chosen.

http://shopwithacopgraysharbor.blogspot.com/search?updated-min=2008-01-01T00%3A00%3A00-08%3A00&updated-max=2009-01-01T00%3A00%3A00-08%3A00&max-results=7



So much has been speculated about LE and possibly one of them being involved - does anyone know WHO the police officer was that took Lindsey to "shop with a cop"

She would know and trust that person.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Edward on July 31, 2009, 12:28:51 PM
Tamikosmom ..I am so sorry to her that.. God Bless you, may he give you some peace knowing that you loved your husband so much..


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: MunkeyMunk on July 31, 2009, 12:33:02 PM
AZSunny


 ::MonkeyAngel::

Love, Janet

+++++

AZSunny
Re: Lindsey Baum #2
« Reply #634 on: July 20, 2009, 02:08:05 AM »


Janet,  dreading the 1st of August.  That is the day I lost my husband.  I am trying so hard to focus on other things, but it is like an elephant standing in front of me.  I miss him so much it physically hurts.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=5627.msg882622#msg882622




BIG HUG for you AZSUNNY!!!  ::MonkeyAngel:: I feel for you my grandpa passed away Dec 30, 2008 we moved grandma into our house they were married 72 yrs. she cries everyday!!! ::MonkeyAngel::

May some cheery news of someone being found safe come this weekend!! ::MonkeyDance::
Prayers for Lindsey & her family


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Tamikosmom on July 31, 2009, 12:34:13 PM
Tamikosmom ..I am so sorry to her that.. God Bless you, may he give you some peace knowing that you loved your husband so much..

Edward

AZSunny lost her hubby one year ago.  She is hurting terribly.  My heart breaks for her.

Janet


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Lovinlife on July 31, 2009, 12:38:04 PM
White van reference- Credit to Edward


::MonkeyEek:: ::MonkeyEek:: ::MonkeyEek:: ::MonkeyEek::

Man Tries To Lure Young Girl Into Van


Orcutt, CA-- Residents are being told to keep a lookout for a man driving a white van with possibly Washington State license plates.

Santa Barbara Sheriff deputies received a report Monday afternoon, that a man driving a white van near Hartnett and Cane tried to lure an 11-year-old girl into his van.

The girl said, the man pulled up to her and asked her to help him find a lost dog. The girl told sheriff officials that when she ran to a nearby home to call for help.

Detectives say the suspect is in his 50's and was driving a white cargo van with two rear windows covered by curtains.

If you have any information on a possible suspect, you are urged to call the Santa Barbara Sheriff's Department.

http://www.keyt.com/news/local/51341337.html


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: AZSunny on July 31, 2009, 12:38:42 PM
AZSunny


 ::MonkeyAngel::

Love, Janet

+++++

AZSunny
Re: Lindsey Baum #2
« Reply #634 on: July 20, 2009, 02:08:05 AM »


Janet,  dreading the 1st of August.  That is the day I lost my husband.  I am trying so hard to focus on other things, but it is like an elephant standing in front of me.  I miss him so much it physically hurts.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=5627.msg882622#msg882622


Thanks Janet for thinking of me.   I hope with this day passing it will give me some healing.  It has been a long road.   

Hugs...


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Edward on July 31, 2009, 12:48:30 PM
Tamikosmom ..I am so sorry to her that.. God Bless you, may he give you some peace knowing that you loved your husband so much..

Edward

AZSunny lost her hubby one year ago.  She is hurting terribly.  My heart breaks for her.

Janet



I am so sorry to hear that I Pray God gives her some peace in her mind..
Life on earth is a temporary state of mind and true love lives forever.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5hRchodc2s&feature=related


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Northern Rose on July 31, 2009, 12:50:18 PM
I have been looking for some true statistics relative to stranger abductions but have not been able to find anything more then supposed professional opinions.. I do not trust most professionals.. There opinions make for good toilet paper most of the time.

When I look at news reports..
  I find that most all of children abducted by strangers, that the child is found murdered or not found at all most of the time.
  In news reports "which may only show a small percentage of cases" I find very few children found alive and happy.
So based on that I would consider 90 percent of stranger abductions that the victim is murdered..
Stranger abductions is a small percentage of abductions as parental abductions appear to be the most common in occurrence.


Anyone who can find true statistics by a government agency who tacks every incident please post a link as I would really like to read it for my own education.
Thank You.

Here are some 2002 stats from the DOJ.  Still looking for newer ones for you.

http://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/ojjdp/196467.pdf


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: no rose colored glasses on July 31, 2009, 12:52:44 PM
AZSunny


 ::MonkeyAngel::

Love, Janet

+++++

AZSunny
Re: Lindsey Baum #2
« Reply #634 on: July 20, 2009, 02:08:05 AM »


Janet,  dreading the 1st of August.  That is the day I lost my husband.  I am trying so hard to focus on other things, but it is like an elephant standing in front of me.  I miss him so much it physically hurts.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=5627.msg882622#msg882622

AZSunny, my thoughts and prayers are with you  ::MonkeyAngel::


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Northern Rose on July 31, 2009, 12:55:28 PM
I have been looking for some true statistics relative to stranger abductions but have not been able to find anything more then supposed professional opinions.. I do not trust most professionals.. There opinions make for good toilet paper most of the time.

When I look at news reports..
  I find that most all of children abducted by strangers, that the child is found murdered or not found at all most of the time.
  In news reports "which may only show a small percentage of cases" I find very few children found alive and happy.
So based on that I would consider 90 percent of stranger abductions that the victim is murdered..
Stranger abductions is a small percentage of abductions as parental abductions appear to be the most common in occurrence.


Anyone who can find true statistics by a government agency who tacks every incident please post a link as I would really like to read it for my own education.
Thank You.

Here are some 2002 stats from the DOJ.  Still looking for newer ones for you.

http://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/ojjdp/196467.pdf

http://www.usdoj.gov/oig/reports/FBI/a0908/chapter4.htm


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: JessStar on July 31, 2009, 12:59:11 PM
I have been looking for some true statistics relative to stranger abductions but have not been able to find anything more then supposed professional opinions.. I do not trust most professionals.. There opinions make for good toilet paper most of the time.

When I look at news reports..
  I find that most all of children abducted by strangers, that the child is found murdered or not found at all most of the time.
  In news reports "which may only show a small percentage of cases" I find very few children found alive and happy.
So based on that I would consider 90 percent of stranger abductions that the victim is murdered..
Stranger abductions is a small percentage of abductions as parental abductions appear to be the most common in occurrence.


Anyone who can find true statistics by a government agency who tacks every incident please post a link as I would really like to read it for my own education.
Thank You.

I can probably help you with this, Edward.  But keep in mind that most cases aren't reported in the media.  Those that receive media attention are sensational for one reason or another.  So I'd be a very leary about using media reports as a basis for a statistical analysis. 

While I look up the information, consider this.  There are about 800,000 children in the United States that are reported missing each year.  Let's assume a very small percentage of those are stranger abductions--1%.  I think the number is more like 9%, but we'll use a very small percentage for purposes of this hypothetical.  1% translates to 8,000 children.  According to the United States Department of Justice and the National Center for Missing & Exploited Children, between 100 and 115 children are abducted and murdered each year.  That means that out of the total population of missing children, .000125, or .0125%, are abducted and murdered.  Using this analysis, it would not be accurate to conclude that 90% of children abducted by strangers result in death to the child.  If that were the case, we'd be seeing thousands of children being abducted and murdered each year--a figure that would translate to more than 22 children a day.  And while the abduction and murder of ONE child is too many, fortunately we are not seeing this happening to 22 children a day.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Edward on July 31, 2009, 01:14:48 PM
Thank You both for that information.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: AZSunny on July 31, 2009, 01:15:04 PM
Tamikosmom ..I am so sorry to her that.. God Bless you, may he give you some peace knowing that you loved your husband so much..

Edward

AZSunny lost her hubby one year ago.  She is hurting terribly.  My heart breaks for her.

Janet



I am so sorry to hear that I Pray God gives her some peace in her mind..
Life on earth is a temporary state of mind and true love lives forever.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5hRchodc2s&feature=related


Edward thank you, that is a beautiful and meaningful song.   It touched my heart.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Tamikosmom on July 31, 2009, 01:33:44 PM
AZSunny

The deep pain you must be experiencing today on the anniversary of the loss of you "soul" mate has brought me to my knees ... has brought me to a place where I realize that it is so important that I reassess my priorities in life.  I have a hubby that ... despite the normal ups and downs ... has blessed my life for 43 years.  He is my rock.  Yet ... for the most part ... I take this gift ... that should be treasured ... for granted.  It is so wrong.

Janet


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: AZSunny on July 31, 2009, 01:56:10 PM
AZSunny

The deep pain you must be experiencing today on the anniversary of the loss of you "soul" mate has brought me to my knees ... has brought me to a place where I realize that it is so important that I reassess my priorities in life.  I have a hubby that ... despite the normal ups and downs ... has blessed my life for 43 years.  He is my rock.  Yet ... for the most part ... I take this gift ... that should be treasured ... for granted.  It is so wrong.

Janet


You are so right Janet, treasure every moment and store it in your memory.  It all can change in a hearbeat, and life is never the same.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Tamikosmom on July 31, 2009, 02:03:41 PM
I feel for Josh Baum.  Many anger issues that follow children into adulthood are rooted in experiences akin to those that KaraK describes.

Nevertheless ... a little ten year girl is missing and ... all avenues in the course of the investigation must be persued.  Justice for Lindsey Baum dictates that no free passes are hand out based on circumstances.  Accountability is where it is at.

Janet

++++++


KaraK
Re: Lindsey Baum, 10y missing from McCleary, WA 6/26/09
« Reply #1809 on: July 09, 2009, 04:33:45 AM »


Josh had gotten into so many spats that honestly were in a large part things he did not start but because he was the oldest he was the one who got in trouble. I've set down kids I've never met before to have a talk with them because I heard that they were antagonizing him to see if he'd blow up.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=5541.msg871164;topicseen#msg871164

Kara Kampen – Mother of Lindsey’s friend Michaela.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: A_News_Junkie_Monkey on July 31, 2009, 02:32:25 PM
AZSunny - I hope it is alright, I asked for prayers for you in these difficult times in the prayer thread.  Here is a link - http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=21.new#new
HUGS and  ::MonkeyAngel:: monkey kisses! 


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: JessStar on July 31, 2009, 02:55:50 PM
In 2002, the United States Department of Justice commissioned a study through NISMART (National Incidence Studies of Missing, Abducted, Runaway and Throwaway Children" called "Nonfamily Abducted Children: National Estimates and Characteristics."  I will post a copy of the actual study for anyone who wants it.  The study used the most comprehensive information available.  Importantly, it analyzed those abductions perpetarated by a stranger or slight acquaintance who transported the child 50 or more miles, detained the child overnight, held the child for ransom or with the intent to keep the child permanently, or killed the child (referred to in the study as a "Stereotypical Kidnapping).  One of the study's key findings was that in 40 percent of Stereotypical Kidnappings, the child was killed and, in another 4 percent, the child was not returned or located.  This child was returned physically injured in 32% of the cases, and returned alive in 57% of the cases.  The child was sexually assaulted 49 percent of the time.  Other motives included robbery or ransom.  During the study term, there were 115 such abductions.  46 of those children were murdered while 66 were returned alive.  The remainder were not returned or located.  More than one perpetrator was involved in a starting 48 percent of the cases.  86% of the perpetrators were male, while 7% were female.  (the remainder had no information).  The perpetrator is 20-29 years old in 36% of the cases; 13-19 years old in 21% of the cases, and 30-39 in 21% of the cases.  In 40% of the cases, the child was taken from the street, car or some other vehicle.  In 16% of the cases, the child was taken from his or her own home or yard.  The child was moved 50 miles or more in only 14% of the cases.  Most "stereotypical kidnapped" children are recovered within 24 hours (83%), with 10% lasting longer than 24 hours.

During the same time period, there were 58,200 "non-family" abductions that were not "sterotypical kidnappings."  Out of those, 99 percent were returned alive.

The study carried with it a 95% confidence interval.  What that means is that if the study was repeated 100 times, 95 of the replications would produce the same general results.



Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: JessStar on July 31, 2009, 02:59:13 PM
AZ Sunny, my thoughts and prayers are with you.  Losing a loved one is always difficult.  Losing a soul mate is always tremendously difficult.  May God and Peace be With You.



Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: JessStar on July 31, 2009, 03:01:43 PM
In 2002, the United States Department of Justice commissioned a study through NISMART (National Incidence Studies of Missing, Abducted, Runaway and Throwaway Children" called "Nonfamily Abducted Children: National Estimates and Characteristics."  I will post a copy of the actual study for anyone who wants it.  The study used the most comprehensive information available.  Importantly, it analyzed those abductions perpetarated by a stranger or slight acquaintance who transported the child 50 or more miles, detained the child overnight, held the child for ransom or with the intent to keep the child permanently, or killed the child (referred to in the study as a "Stereotypical Kidnapping).  One of the study's key findings was that in 40 percent of Stereotypical Kidnappings, the child was killed and, in another 4 percent, the child was not returned or located.  This child was returned physically injured in 32% of the cases, and returned alive in 57% of the cases.  The child was sexually assaulted 49 percent of the time.  Other motives included robbery or ransom.  During the study term, there were 115 such abductions.  46 of those children were murdered while 66 were returned alive.  The remainder were not returned or located.  More than one perpetrator was involved in a starting 48 percent of the cases.  86% of the perpetrators were male, while 7% were female.  (the remainder had no information).  The perpetrator is 20-29 years old in 36% of the cases; 13-19 years old in 21% of the cases, and 30-39 in 21% of the cases.  In 40% of the cases, the child was taken from the street, car or some other vehicle.  In 16% of the cases, the child was taken from his or her own home or yard.  The child was moved 50 miles or more in only 14% of the cases.  Most "stereotypical kidnapped" children are recovered within 24 hours (83%), with 10% lasting longer than 24 hours.

During the same time period, there were 58,200 "non-family" abductions that were not "sterotypical kidnappings."  Out of those, 99 percent were returned alive.

The study carried with it a 95% confidence interval.  What that means is that if the study was repeated 100 times, 95 of the replications would produce the same general results.



The Study can be found here:

http://www.missingkids.com/en_US/documents/nismart2_nonfamily.pdf


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Edward on July 31, 2009, 03:39:51 PM
I copy and pasted it ..Thank You very much for the research study and a good statistic I can use in the future.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: JessStar on July 31, 2009, 03:57:20 PM
I copy and pasted it ..Thank You very much for the research study and a good statistic I can use in the future.

No problem, Edward.  I find it emotionally trying to read those studies.  They always seem to be accompanied by an undertone that the "problem is not as bad as everyone thinks."  But to me, one murdered child is one too many.  If it were up to me, I'd be spending the One Billion Dollars on finding and saving missing children, not on Cash for Clunkers.  But to our Government, the problem of missing and exploited kids only deserves a $40 million a year allotment.  And I'm not kidding about that figure.  I don't joke about things like that--it makes me way way way too angry.





Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Tamikosmom on July 31, 2009, 04:34:21 PM
AZSunny

I miss ya on the Natalee Holloway forum.  I miss ya whether you are silently sitting in the rafter or you are contributing with your posts to the elusive cause of justice for this 18 year old American citizen or ... a measure of closure for her family.

 ::MonkeyWaa::

Janet


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: KarmaRoundUp on July 31, 2009, 05:12:06 PM
Lindsey Baum Reward Increase



The Daily World

The reward for information leading to 11-year-old Lindsey Baum has been raised to $10,000 as investigators continue checking on new leads.

Lindsey’s mother Melissa Baum said donations have increased the reward previously offered by Crime Stoppers and the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children.

Grays Harbor Undersheriff Rick Scott said a team of investigators continue to catalog and check out new tips from when the reward was first offered. They are conducting follow-up interviews with the help of neighboring law enforcement agencies.

Lindsey disappeared on June 26 while walking a few blocks to her home in McCleary. Investigators have found no evidence explaining the 4-foot-9, brown-haired girl’s disappearance in the past month.

Melissa Baum said people can contribute to the Lindsey Baum Reward Fund at any Sterling Savings bank branch.

Anyone with information on Lindsey’s whereabouts or suspicious behavior that may be related to the case should call the tip line at 1-866-915-8299 or send an e-mail to soadmin@co.grays-harbor.wa.us.
 
http://**/articles/2009/07/31/local_news/doc4a733060c75f2234916382.txt


 



Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on July 31, 2009, 05:34:16 PM
I am very glad to see the reward going up for Lindsey.  Hopefully, more people are telling something and they are following up on what the people are saying.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on July 31, 2009, 05:36:29 PM
does anyone have any idea what it costs to hire a sketch artist?  a good one? 


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Edward on July 31, 2009, 05:58:57 PM
I copy and pasted it ..Thank You very much for the research study and a good statistic I can use in the future.

No problem, Edward.  I find it emotionally trying to read those studies.  They always seem to be accompanied by an undertone that the "problem is not as bad as everyone thinks."  But to me, one murdered child is one too many.  If it were up to me, I'd be spending the One Billion Dollars on finding and saving missing children, not on Cash for Clunkers.  But to our Government, the problem of missing and exploited kids only deserves a $40 million a year allotment.  And I'm not kidding about that figure.  I don't joke about things like that--it makes me way way way too angry.





I know how you feel.. 4 years ago when we I got involved with the search for Natalee Holloway, I had only done searches physical searches for missing people before that and never done research on missing people nor seen the levels of bureaucracy ..
 Now more then 4 years later I am so frustrated with the professionals that I want the United States Government to appoint a citizen group with unlimited jurisdiction worldwide to do the research and the physical searches for missing people as we can't seem to trust THEM "So many agencies caught up in bureaucratic bull-crap and EGO, that I can't name them all" to do it properly.. I am so frustrated with the amount of unsolved cases on American soil.. We made better progress in a nation not our own with no rights to do so.. and we never let go of the suspects on that rock called Aruba and they are in fact the guilty party..
From the beginning of Amber alerts LE for the most part fails inside of the United States.. There is no common sense in any socialistic group.. You need common sense and the ability to act quickly in ALL of these cases to have any chance of catching the bad people early on.. Until the professionals start acting with urgency on ALL of these cases I am always going to be frustrated. Although it does not happen in all cases and if the criminal falls inside of the police station and confesses or LE finds the victim in the middle of the road they do solve cases and they never let us hear the end of it when that does happen.. True


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Tamikosmom on July 31, 2009, 06:05:30 PM
Think about it.  Considering the girls left the video store at 8:19 PM and ... then  went to the Baum residence prior to beginning their jouney to the Kampen residence with Josh ... there could only be about a 30 minute time span between the girls' parting with Josh following the argument and ... Lindsey's expected time home after leaving the Kampen residence.

Inquiring minds want to know what time did Josh Baum arrive home that evening.

In the process of elimination ... all avenues ... even difficult avenues ... must be explored.

Janet

++++++


KaraK
Re: Lindsey Baum, 10y missing from McCleary, WA 6/26/09
« Reply #1936 on: July 10, 2009, 07:07:48 PM »


The conversation was apparently quite short and consisted of little more then a "Josh you need to go home" Josh trying to explain what was going on and the girls asking the lady to tell Josh to go home again.
 
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=5541.msg873229#msg873229


The Daily World - July 3, 2009

Kampen said she has replayed that Friday evening in her head over and over. So has her daughter, Michaela, 10, who spent the day swimming with Lindsey. They walked together with Josh Baum, 13, to the Kampen house. But halfway there, Michaela said they teased Josh, getting under his skin ...

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=5541.msg863022


KaraK
Re: Lindsey Baum, 10y missing from McCleary, WA 6/26/09
« Reply #1809 on: July 09, 2009, 04:33:45 AM
»

Josh had gotten into so many spats that honestly were in a large part things he did not start but because he was the oldest he was the one who got in trouble. I've set down kids I've never met before to have a talk with them because I heard that they were antagonizing him to see if he'd blow up.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=5541.msg871164;topicseen#msg871164


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: no rose colored glasses on July 31, 2009, 06:19:08 PM
I would like to know what time Josh got home that evening as well. But since his own mother says he is a wanderer, she probably doesn't even know.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Tamikosmom on July 31, 2009, 06:40:53 PM
I would like to know what time Josh got home that evening as well. But since his own mother says he is a wanderer, she probably doesn't even know.

I do not know if it was fear of the consequences or love for my parents that was the motivating factor but ... at 12 years of age if an adult were to instruct my brothers or I to go home ... we would be home licity split.

Janet


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: no rose colored glasses on July 31, 2009, 06:54:19 PM
I would like to know what time Josh got home that evening as well. But since his own mother says he is a wanderer, she probably doesn't even know.

I do not know if it was fear of the consequences or love for my parents that was the motivating factor but ... at 12 years of age if an adult were to instruct my brothers or I to go home ... we would be home licity split.

Janet
Yes, I know I would have also, but then kids were not allowed to be disrespectful to their elders, not like some kids are today.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on July 31, 2009, 06:58:02 PM
okay I am going to try to understand this whole josh thing. 

did they police question him?  if so, do you think he could lie well enough all this time he would not convict himself if he were guilty? 

where would he hide a body or keep a person tied up/locked up or whatever?  out in the woods? in some old building?  etc. 

do you think the police just ignored him and never asked him anything? 

if he and lindsey were fighting and the lady on the street noticed and made josh go home, or at least told him to go home, then wouldn't someone else here them fighting again if they were fighting when lindsey was walking back home. 

did josh wait for lindsey along the way and they fought and he did something to her?  where would he have dragged her to? 

did she get home and he did something to her there?  again, would his mother hear them fighting? where would he drag her off to?  the dogs were at the house and searching the area around there, so wouldn't they have found her if josh did something to her at home and then dragged her out of the house to the woods around there? 

I am trying to understand how others think josh did this, hid her body, and no one finds her? the dogs have been all over town.  wouldn't they have found her scent?  if you think the weather messed up the scent, then okay, where is she?  in some house? under a house?  etc.  its been over a month, if there is a decomposing body in this heat in town, someone would know it by now.  how far could josh drag her out in the woods?  a mile?  1000 feet?  I would think they have searched at least 1000 feet all the way around the town?  I would hope they did.  did he sink her in water?  how would he weight her down? 

do you think he killed her then called someone to help him dispose of her? 

I am just trying to understand how you think josh is responsible and no one has figured that out by now.  I'm not saying he isn't able to do this, I do believe 12 year old kids can do this, but I would think if he did, they would know it by now or at least found her. 

do you think his mother helped him cover this up?  she had no car?  did she help him drag her off somewhere?  did they call someone else with a car to take her and get rid of her?  who would do that?  trust a kid not to tell it if he got caught? 

I have no problem trying to help figure out how josh could have done this etc, but I must not be looking at it the same way some others are


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: sunshine12 on July 31, 2009, 07:15:10 PM
DD-excellent post.  i think that obviously there are some concerns with jb... but i agree with you that i can't seem to come up with any plausible scenario in which he could have been responsible for lb's disappearance.

the only thing i can think of that could be possible (yet extremely far fetched) is if he dug a deep hole in the woods somewhere and had this planned out, which i find almost impossible.

if he was involved, i dont see how he did this alone. if it was a plot w/friends i dont see how someone hasn't talked yet, or how the rumor mill hasnt started on that.

i originally thought maybe an older teen was responsible for this, but the more time that has passed, and the more i have read on the research everyone has been doing on people, the more i think this was an adult aquantince.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Tamikosmom on July 31, 2009, 07:33:06 PM
DD

When all the underlying dynamic that has been revealed/alleged encompassing Josh Baum and ... then when you consider the argument that must of been so heated that it dictated  intervention by a neighbour ... logic dictates that Lindsey's brother should not be overlooked as a person of interest.  Hey ... maybe he has not been overlooked but ... the dots cannot be connected.  Think about the six searches conducted at the creek within days following Lindsey's disappearance.  Think about the recent search with the dogs.

I can only speculate on a possible scenerio and ... it involve a chance meeting between  Lindsey and a still angry Josh within two block from their home ... a chance meeting following Lindsey being observed at Fifteen and Maple by a neighbor driving to work.  Then somewhere off the beaten track ... things go out of hand. 

Consideing Melissa Baum passed a lie detector test ... I do not believe she has any first hand knowledge of wrongdoing.

I saw a photo of Josh Baum at the second vigil a few nights ago.  He is a good size.

Again ... I am not accusing but ... when what is known about Josh and Lindsey's relationship that appears to reach beyond normal sibling rivalry ... I believe that her brother should not be overlooked as a person of interest.

Janet




Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on July 31, 2009, 07:34:57 PM
DD-excellent post.  i think that obviously there are some concerns with jb... but i agree with you that i can't seem to come up with any plausible scenario in which he could have been responsible for lb's disappearance.

the only thing i can think of that could be possible (yet extremely far fetched) is if he dug a deep hole in the woods somewhere and had this planned out, which i find almost impossible.

if he was involved, i dont see how he did this alone. if it was a plot w/friends i dont see how someone hasn't talked yet, or how the rumor mill hasnt started on that.

i originally thought maybe an older teen was responsible for this, but the more time that has passed, and the more i have read on the research everyone has been doing on people, the more i think this was an adult aquantince.

I'm more than willing to listen to the reasons and HOW he could have done this and they not find her, but I just can't figure out myself how come they have not found her if josh did this.  I can't figure out where he would have put her that they can't find her.  I know people can do things together and stay quiet. I am a firm believer in mulitple perps doing stuff together and no one every telling.  but who would have helped Josh.  that is the question.  I can't see how he could hide her by himself.

even if he had a place to hide her, he had to get her there.  if he dragged her on the ground the dogs would know.  if he got her in an empty house or building in town, wouldn't someone know it by now?  in this heat? 

does he have an older friend who drives who would help him?  who would that be.  does he know anyone THAT well who would do that?  where is the "friend" if there is one?  has he been known to hang out with anyone who is that good of friend of his? 

I just don't have any answers to help me with this.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Tamikosmom on July 31, 2009, 07:38:37 PM
Again ... it would be interesting to know what time Josh Baum got home on the evening of June 26, 2009.  Did he go home as the neighbour who intervened in the argument had instructed?  If he was at home with Mom prior to Lindsey's leaving the Kampen resident between 9:15 PM and 9:30 PM then this wannabe detective's speculation will go in another direction.

Janet


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on July 31, 2009, 07:42:39 PM
DD

When all the underlying dynamic that has been revealed/alleged encompassing Josh Baum and ... then when you consider the argument that must of been so heated that it dictated  intervention by a neighbour ... logic dictates that Lindsey's brother should not be overlooked as a person of interest.  Hey ... maybe he has not been overlooked but ... the dots cannot be connected.  Think about the six searches conducted at the creek within days following Lindsey's disappearance.  Think about the recent search with the dogs.

I can only speculate on a possible scenerio and ... it involve a chance meeting between  Lindsey and a still angry Josh within two block from their home ... a chance meeting following Lindsey being observed at Fifteen and Maple by a neighbor driving to work.  Then somewhere off the beaten track ... things go out of hand. 

Consideing Melissa Baum passed a lie detector test ... I do not believe she has any first hand knowledge of wrongdoing.

I saw a photo of Josh Baum at the second vigil a few nights ago.  He is a good size.

Again ... I am not accusing but ... when what is known about Josh and Lindsey's relationship that appears to reach beyond normal sibling rivalry ... I believe that her brother should not be overlooked as a person of interest.

Janet




oh I agree with you that he should not be overlooked at all.  and I believe he is big enough to do something to her either on purpose or accidently if they got into a physical altercation.  I have no problem believing any of those things.  My problem is where would he hide her?  how?  if he hid her someone where he could get her on foot, and if he really is responsible and did this, then she is close... and if she is that close, and he dragged her off somewhere, then they must not have looked very well AT ALL.  that is my problem with this theory... they can't find her where I think he would be able to put her.  either he would have to have help to get her out of there, or they didn't search that town at all.  "IF" he were to have done this. 

It's not even that I don't agree with you that he could have done this, he "could" have, but what did he do with her?  see what I mean?  do you have some ideas where he could have put her or gotten her there?  that is what I can't get past.  believe me, if I could make sense out of where he could have put her, I would be ragging about him just like everyone else.  well maybe not quite as bad, but I would certainly be over here by myself with some huge file of my own going through it. 

if you can tell me something where it seems believeable to me, or even half A$$ believeable to me where he could have hid her, I am more than ready to add him to my list.  the ONLY reason I personally can see that he did it and she is wherever he could have put her, is the police and search dogs are not looking at all.  because if josh dragged her somewhere they should have found her.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on July 31, 2009, 07:51:01 PM
Again ... it would be interesting to know what time Josh Baum got home on the evening of June 26, 2009.  Did he go home as the neighbour who intervened in the argument had instructed?  If he was at home with Mom prior to Lindsey's leaving the Kampen resident between 9:15 PM and 9:30 PM then this wannabe detective's speculation will go in another direction.

Janet


I would think the police would certainly ask josh when he got home, if for no other reason to see where he was and if he saw anyone out and about wherever he was at at the time she was walking home.  even if they never even consider he might be responsible, he was with her right before that and known to be out walking around or at least home so they should have asked him where he was and did he see anyone weird around etc. 

if they never talked to him at all, then boy would that be something


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: klaasend on July 31, 2009, 07:51:27 PM
DON'T MISS DANA PRETZER TONIGHT AT 9PM ET:

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub7/Pretzer073109.jpg)


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on July 31, 2009, 07:56:00 PM
also someone has been ringing in the ear of the police that josh has done things to lindsey, all the more reason they probably did talk to him...being that someone saw them fighting and told him to go home, and they police have talked to them, then all the more reason the police probably talked to him about it.  You would think the police have questioned him about the fight etc.  If they didn't then that would really supprise me.  And I find it hard to believe Josh is smarter than the police when it comes to being questioned.  some are though, but from what I am hearing of Josh, I am not sure he could hold a candle to the feds or det's questioning him.  seems he has been caught for the other things he has done, so does he really know how to commit crimes and get away with them, especially a murder and hiding a body. 

these are the things I can't figure out in order to think he did this.  Can a 12 year old do this and lie and not get caught?  yes... but still, hiding the body is the problem I have.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Rob on July 31, 2009, 07:57:57 PM
I see no way - zero way that Josh could have done this for all the reasons doubledecker listed. In fact, I have considered all those reasons myself but thought that everyone saw it too and didn't want to waste so many keystrokes typing it out.

In fact, I don't see how any of the townies could have done this - atleast not the ones on Lindsey's way home. I also discount all rumors and stories posted by townies that have posted here and on other boards. I have been around long enough to know that townies post all kinds of ludicrous stories... they do it for a multitude of reasons... such as posterity, notoriety and to be a local hero... not to mention getting even with a family they don't like. Those that want to believe them or trust their words - that's up to you.

I'm gonna stick to my original hypothesis - someone off of rt 8 stopping for gas and saw a crime of opportunity. I may be wrong but after 4 + weeks, I don't see the police any closer to arresting someone local. As I said - I may be wrong, but to me this looks like a crime of opportunity where Lindsey was in the wrong place at the RIGHT time.

I would love to see this wrapped up yesterday, I really would. I don't wanna see any child missing, none at all. But I don't think we can make Josh anymore a suspect or POI than we can Watne. All of these people have been check multiple times. Now unless the police are playing some type of game, which I wholeheartedly disagree with, I just do not see how we can label anyone "interesting".

I believe, in my own opinion, that the case is still unsolved simply because the person who abducted Lindsey is not a known person from the community - I could be wrong, but you tell me how a small townie was not been found yet and responsible for this disappearance and the most important question is - where is Lindsey - dead or alive.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: sunshine12 on July 31, 2009, 08:00:47 PM


oh I agree with you that he should not be overlooked at all.  and I believe he is big enough to do something to her either on purpose or accidently if they got into a physical altercation.  I have no problem believing any of those things.  My problem is where would he hide her?  how?  if he hid her someone where he could get her on foot, and if he really is responsible and did this, then she is close... and if she is that close, and he dragged her off somewhere, then they must not have looked very well AT ALL.  that is my problem with this theory... they can't find her where I think he would be able to put her.  either he would have to have help to get her out of there, or they didn't search that town at all.  "IF" he were to have done this. 

It's not even that I don't agree with you that he could have done this, he "could" have, but what did he do with her?  see what I mean?  do you have some ideas where he could have put her or gotten her there?  that is what I can't get past.  believe me, if I could make sense out of where he could have put her, I would be ragging about him just like everyone else.  well maybe not quite as bad, but I would certainly be over here by myself with some huge file of my own going through it. 

if you can tell me something where it seems believeable to me, or even half A$$ believeable to me where he could have hid her, I am more than ready to add him to my list.  the ONLY reason I personally can see that he did it and she is wherever he could have put her, is the police and search dogs are not looking at all.  because if josh dragged her somewhere they should have found her.
[/quote]

i could not agree more.  it has been reported by karak that jb did not have many friends.  part of the reason that wayne watne was looked at so closely on this board was b/c of his connection with jb..it was made to seem from karak that this was his only friend.   i think if jb put her anywhere she def would have been found by now. yes its concerning b/c of the reports about jb and b/c of lindsey's own posts on myspace about him going to "juvi"... but i think all of these things with jb are just a coincidence and hopefully le went over all of this and ruled him out.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: sunshine12 on July 31, 2009, 08:05:33 PM
i'm sorry dd i totally messed up that last post. this was my response to ur last post

i could not agree more.  it has been reported by karak that jb did not have many friends.  part of the reason that wayne watne was looked at so closely on this board was b/c of his connection with jb..it was made to seem from karak that this was his only friend.   i think if jb put her anywhere she def would have been found by now. yes its concerning b/c of the reports about jb and b/c of lindsey's own posts on myspace about him going to "juvi"... but i think all of these things with jb are just a coincidence and hopefully le went over all of this and ruled him out.

rob-i enjoy reading your posts (even though this is such a gruesome subject)


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Tamikosmom on July 31, 2009, 08:08:28 PM
DD

I speculate if something happened to Lindsey at the hands of her brother ... it was completely unplanned.  I am not condoning but ... it could have been possibly provoked and ... he acted impulsively.  At twelve years old ... I believe this young man would have panicked and ... bolted.  In all probability ... no attempt or ... very little attempt at hiding his sister's body.

I believe IF the above scenario took place ... Lindsey will be found in an out-of-sight spot on one of the properties in that two block radius.

Sheriff Scott stated in the search the other day ... that they were calling on neighbours again and requestioning them as well as neighbours who had yet to be contacted.  It does not appear that those properties were search to any extent ... only rural areas.

Also ... when it is considered what a residence said about Josh's behavior at that first vigil in regards to attempting to solicit money for the purchase of fireworks and ... KaraK's words about Josh's behavior at a search effort regarding Josh's only interest was in arranging a playdate with her son ... it appears that he does not comprehend that seriousness of the situation.  A lack of conscience can account for the fact there is no remorse.

DD ... I am only speculating.  Lindsey Baum is missing and ... something happened to her. 

Janet



Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: melisb on July 31, 2009, 08:10:50 PM
DD...I finally caught you on here!  Will you just satisfy MY curiosity?  Please check out KaraK's boyfriend/husband.  I'm just not satisified on their end.  Also, any friend could've been on their way to or from their house.  Please?


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on July 31, 2009, 08:17:33 PM
I'm just going to brainstorm here, because by rambling and thinking of everything I can that is how I notice things I might otherwise miss.  so whatever I say here is not because I think it true or not; I am only brainstorming. 

does search the creek 6 times.  that is far away from where lindsey was walking.  how would josh get her to that creek down a street full of houses, you can't drag a dead body down a residential street that far... if she was alive and he had ahold of her she would be fighting and yelling. just like in front of the lady who told them to go home, someone would hear them by the time they got all the way to the creek. 

I see you think(or I think that is what you are saying) that she is a couple of blocks from her house.  if he waited for her on the west side of the highway, he can't drag her across there and not be seen by someone.  if he is on the east side of the highway waiting for her, there are houses there too, so where to drag her?  where is the easiest place to drag someone off the road without being seen.

could he have grabbed her off maple into an empty house?  I am sure by now they have searched those houses.  maybe not at first but they are back in there now, so it would really make me go hmmmmm the police are useless if they have not searched those empty buildings by now.  by now a decomposing body should aleart the neighbors and there be flies all over ....sorry, but the truth, so I don't think she would be dead in a house closeby.  is there any way she could be?  I don't know, what am I overlooking? 

who would have helped josh take her out of there?  did he have any friends?  older ones with cars?  can he or someone steal a car...possible... 12 year olds steal cars all the time.  was one reported stolen?  if so did the fingerprint it or test for lindsey being in it, did they find a stolen car he could have used?  we don't know. 

and here is one more question... and I am not saying who I believe at this point but... marylin says there was a 911 report and all this stuff josh has done.  kara says no there is not, yet you site both of them in helping you come to your conclusion josh might be the kind of person to do this.  well, one of them has to be telling the truth and one not... so which is it?  we don't know.  marylin is just another person in nthe "local rumor mill".  we have not seen proof of anything she said.  we can choose to believe her though.  there is no reason to not believe her, there is no reason to believe her, it is our own call.  same with kara, just because she is part of this mess, does not mean we know if she is telling the truth, therefore, she is another part of the "local rumor mill" ... we just don't know.  now do both tell the truth?  do both lie? do both tell the truth sometimes and not the other?  how do we pick and choose what is the truth they tell and what is not.  if we look at the times things don't match up with kara(and understandably a lot of it) then we might decide kara lies, or we might think she just got confused or thought differently than someone else... same with marylin.  but it is a fact these two do not agree with one another.  so how do we pick and choose who to believe, and which parts to believe.  do we believe one part and not the other.  or do we say well I think she lied about this or that, so I can't believe her at all?  so here is another huge problem, we are going by some of the things some of the people say and writing off the other parts.  or we point out some of the things they say are not true or don't match yet we believe the other parts they say.  so I personally consider them as part of the "local rumor mill".  now if I ask kara something and she tells me and I go find the doc or the proof, then I know she is telling me the truth... on the other hand I have not talked to marylin and I have not seen the proof of what she is saying.  we can choose to believe her if we like, and I do believe people at times because I choose to, but we can't know unless we see the reports.  I haven't seen one so I don't know if josh did those things to lindsey or not.  would marylin get on the net and lie about reporting something to the police?  who knows.. .would kara?  who knows.  if josh chased lindsey with shovels and knives, do we believe that?  because someone said so?  could be true.. might not be.  if someone came and said hey they are all cranksters tweaked out of their heads, do we believe that?  hey maybe they are, we don't know.  and maybe the person saying it is the one tweaked out.  so personally how do I know who to believe?  so I have to look for some proof of something or something that makes sense one way or the other.  hiding the body is my problem.  that is my real problem with josh.  if I could figure out how he could hide her body and they not find it with the dogs etc... or in a search of the area where he could have dragged a body... then I might see this more believeable that he did this.   


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: love4ever on July 31, 2009, 08:18:42 PM
Hi...almost done with my studies, one more research paper and I am done!! YAY..

Took a break from it all to come here!...
~Love~


PHERNETTON, RICHARD ALLEN

Booked
7/20/2009 21:00    
Statute:
10.88.320 - Fugitive From Justice Other St
Offense:
SOFF - Sex Offense
Arrest Type:
PC
Charging Agency:
MPD-Montesano Police Department
Court:
SC2-GHC Superior Court 2
Cause No:
09-1-307-9
Released
7/31/2009 09:00    

Bail Amount:
No Bail
Disposition:
ROA-Released to Other Agency



Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: no rose colored glasses on July 31, 2009, 08:20:08 PM
DD...I finally caught you on here!  Will you just satisfy MY curiosity?  Please check out KaraK's boyfriend/husband.  I'm just not satisified on their end.  Also, any friend could've been on their way to or from their house.  Please?
Interesting, and I'm glad you are asking her, thanks. There is something about Josh that bothers me very much, but you are right, if he did do something to his sister, LE would surely have found Lindsey by now, I do have a problem of where he would have put her. And I'm sure, at least I hope LE have spoken several times to Josh.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: love4ever on July 31, 2009, 08:20:17 PM
Cited for above post:

http://www.co.grays-harbor.wa.us/info/sheriff/JailRegisters/RegisterDetail.asp?SrchBookNo=173193


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: love4ever on July 31, 2009, 08:24:42 PM
COLE, ERIC JOHN

Booked
7/10/2009 15:20    
Statute:
9A.44.130 - Fail To Reg Sex/Kidnap Offendr
Offense:
WARA - Warrant Arrest
Arrest Type:
WAR
Charging Agency:
GHCJ-Grays Harbor County Jail
Court:
DC1-Grays Harbor District Court 1
Cause No:
2002131
Released
7/31/2009 15:20
   
Bail Amount:
$5,000.00

Disposition:
TS-Time Served
               
http://www.co.grays-harbor.wa.us/info/sheriff/JailRegisters/RegisterDetail.asp?SrchBookNo=173026


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on July 31, 2009, 08:25:34 PM
DD

I speculate if something happened to Lindsey at the hands of her brother ... it was completely unplanned.  I am not condoning but ... it could have been possibly provoked and ... he acted impulsively.  At twelve years old ... I believe this young man would have panicked and ... bolted.  In all probability ... no attempt or ... very little attempt at hiding his sister's body.

I believe IF the above scenario took place ... Lindsey will be found in an out-of-sight spot on one of the properties in that two block radius.

Sheriff Scott stated in the search the other day ... that they were calling on neighbours again and requestioning them as well as neighbours who had yet to be contacted.  It does not appear that those properties were search to any extent ... only rural areas.

Also ... when it is considered what a residence said about Josh's behavior at that first vigil in regards to attempting to solicit money for the purchase of fireworks and ... KaraK's words about Josh's behavior at a search effort regarding Josh's only interest was in arranging a playdate with her son ... it appears that he does not comprehend that seriousness of the situation.  A lack of conscience can account for the fact there is no remorse.

DD ... I am only speculating.  Lindsey Baum is missing and ... something happened to her. 

Janet



now if the police did not check well I could see josh could do something to her and she was left lying there, could have even been accidental in an arguement, a shove and hit her head or whatever... but if she is just left lying out there within 2 blocks why have they not found her is my question... that is the only thing that makes this not work for me.  a month of heat and no one notices a dead body within 2 blocks?  I don't understand how that can happen.  If you know how that can happen or have an idea that might work, I am more than willing to go hmmmm, hey maybe he did do it. 

I look at every possible scenario imagineable, everyone should know that by now.  gee I have dug up everything I can find on everyone, I don't care who they are, and all the while I have my own ideas over here in my head what I think might be... but I am more than willing to work on anything and everything because that is just how I am... I know my own opinion is only as good as every other opinion and at times my own is a lot less believeable haha.  so I really am trying to figure this one out so I can figure out where her body would be if josh did something to her, or where she would be if he locked her up somewhere. 


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Rob on July 31, 2009, 08:25:38 PM

rob-i enjoy reading your posts (even though this is such a gruesome subject)


sunshine12 thanks you for the kind words and deciphering my gibberish  ::MonkeyAngel:: I think, like Klaas, I'm a realist and look for would really could have happened and not what I want to pin on someone.

Trust me, there are certainly enough people around that we could all rail road, but that doesn't solve a case or bring closer for a family. And as far as I know - only one case has ever been solved on the net and that's not likely to happen too many moire times... but that doesn't mean that we should try.

As in Adji's case- I have always believed that was a local predator in the farmer's village. So close and the police missed it. In fact I think I know who did it.

As in Caylee's case - I always believed that Casey killed Caylee and the parents helped her along the way and should be charged with obstruction.

In Brooke Bennett's case I always believed it was the uncle and had her body within .1 of a mile of it's final locale.

In Madeleine McCann's case I always thought it was a predator and a seasoned predator at that. I never believed that Gerry and Kate committed a crime that was without a body while on holiday. I never wanted Gerry and Kate as my GP or a neighbor and certainly not a family member, but I never ever suspected them as the Portuguese police did.

I could list many other cases but that's not helping find Lindsey. And in her case - I'm not seeing a local as the culprit, I could be wrong and the goal is not to be right but to find a clue or commonality that helps find a child that is missing.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Tamikosmom on July 31, 2009, 08:29:00 PM
DD

When I consider the Jessica Lunford case.  This precious little girl was found burird on a property a stone throw away from her home weeks following her disappearance.  In the meantime search efforts were being conducted far and wide.

In the process of elimination ... I consider Josh Baum a person of interest unless he was sitting at home with his Mom between 9:15 PM and 9:30 PM ... the time Lindsey left the Baum residence.  This is where he should have been if he had adhered to the instructions of the "friend of the family" who intervened in the bike argument between him and his sister.

Janet




Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on July 31, 2009, 08:34:19 PM
DD...I finally caught you on here!  Will you just satisfy MY curiosity?  Please check out KaraK's boyfriend/husband.  I'm just not satisified on their end.  Also, any friend could've been on their way to or from their house.  Please?

to be truthful, kara and scott(her bf) were my very first people to look at along with kara's brother wesley and her sister in law michelle flostrom/sheedy.  because kara was on the board I did not put all that stuff out here LOL  but I was behind the scenes asking her straight up about anything I wondered about and if I found something I told her and asked her to explain it.  I did not overlook a one of them.  believe me, poor kara probably thought omg this woman thinks we did this.  but she stuck with me and answered me and even gave me more info that I doubt most people would.  hey I even asked her if she were involved in drugs and could someone be mad at her and thought because lindsey left her house it was one of her kids... I asked her everything.  I checked them out in AZ, all over washington etc.  I checked out her relatives.  I know about her bf and I asked her a lot of things.  I had wondered if lindsey ever really left that house or if she left and one of them caught up with her for whatever reason.  I just did not post all this stuff because she was on the board and I thought perhaps she would leave if I started posting that stuff on here, so I emailed it all to here and asked.  I didn't find anything bad on her bf or her.  doesn't mean I didn't miss something.  so what is my take on them.  truthfully.  I don't know, but nothing for me to go wow they did this.  you have no idea what I thought might have happened when this first started.  I really ragged kara.  I'm supprised she did not tell me off good.  LOL but she didn't.  had it been vise verse.. she would have got an earful from me LOL


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on July 31, 2009, 08:35:13 PM
DD...I finally caught you on here!  Will you just satisfy MY curiosity?  Please check out KaraK's boyfriend/husband.  I'm just not satisified on their end.  Also, any friend could've been on their way to or from their house.  Please?

if you have some thoughts let me know, I will check...


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on July 31, 2009, 08:40:43 PM
Hi...almost done with my studies, one more research paper and I am done!! YAY..

Took a break from it all to come here!...
~Love~


PHERNETTON, RICHARD ALLEN

Booked
7/20/2009 21:00    
Statute:
10.88.320 - Fugitive From Justice Other St
Offense:
SOFF - Sex Offense
Arrest Type:
PC
Charging Agency:
MPD-Montesano Police Department
Court:
SC2-GHC Superior Court 2
Cause No:
09-1-307-9
Released
7/31/2009 09:00    

Bail Amount:
No Bail
Disposition:
ROA-Released to Other Agency



well they probably transported him back to wisconsin where he abscounded from... or hmmmmmm 


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: love4ever on July 31, 2009, 08:41:16 PM
DD, do we know who the family friend is that is said to have sent Josh home after Lindsey and him argue?


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: melisb on July 31, 2009, 08:42:41 PM
I asked her lots of ?'s too and she did answer but I'm not there looking at her, not that I'm an expert at anything, it just would make some sense if Scott left home for a little while and caught up with Lindsey.  Just trying to make sense out of things that shouldn't have happened anyway.  Thank you so much DD for your swift reply.  I really appreciate it.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: love4ever on July 31, 2009, 08:43:43 PM
DD, do we know who the family friend is that is said to have sent Josh home after Lindsey and him argue?

after they saw Lindsey and him arguing****sorry-tired


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on July 31, 2009, 08:45:26 PM
DD

When I consider the Jessica Lunford case.  This precious little girl was found burird on a property a stone throw away from her home weeks following her disappearance.  In the meantime search efforts were being conducted far and wide.

In the process of elimination ... I consider Josh Baum a person of interest unless he was sitting at home with his Mom between 9:15 PM and 9:30 PM ... the time Lindsey left the Baum residence.  This is where he should have been if he had adhered to the instructions of the "friend of the family" who intervened in the bike argument between him and his sister.

Janet




hmm very true about Jessica Lunford... she was right there.  I did not follow that case but did know a little about it... friend followed it extensively... so... how did they miss her?  could they miss lindsey the same way. 


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Tamikosmom on July 31, 2009, 08:47:28 PM
DD, do we know who the family friend is that is said to have sent Josh home after Lindsey and him argue?

Melissa Baum does not reveal the name of the "family friend" who intervened in the argument between Josh and Lindsey.

Janet

++++++

MELISSA BAUM

Where is Lindsey Baum? Police, FBI Search for 10-Year-Old
Girl's Mother Frantic After Lindsey Never Made it Home From a Friend's House
By SARAH NETTER
June 30, 2009

Baum said her children began squabbling over the use of Josh's bike on the way there and were stopped by a family friend who sent Josh home to end the argument. Lindsey continued on to her friend's house. When Lindsey's friend found out she couldn't stay the night, Lindsey headed for home around 9:30 p.m.

"When she wasn't home by 10, I started to get nervous," Baum said, adding that 10 p.m. is the curfew for her children.
 
http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=7966924&page=1


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on July 31, 2009, 08:48:31 PM
DD, do we know who the family friend is that is said to have sent Josh home after Lindsey and him argue?

I THINK I might LOL  but I can't post that and i have only a first name.  so I have not been able to find them.  hard to find someone with only a first name. 


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: love4ever on July 31, 2009, 08:51:34 PM
DD, do we know who the family friend is that is said to have sent Josh home after Lindsey and him argue?

I THINK I might LOL  but I can't post that and i have only a first name.  so I have not been able to find them.  hard to find someone with only a first name. 

Brat..lol


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on July 31, 2009, 08:52:06 PM
I asked her lots of ?'s too and she did answer but I'm not there looking at her, not that I'm an expert at anything, it just would make some sense if Scott left home for a little while and caught up with Lindsey.  Just trying to make sense out of things that shouldn't have happened anyway.  Thank you so much DD for your swift reply.  I really appreciate it.


well that was one of my very first questions... did lindsey leave there house and one of them caught up with her for whatever reason? or someone from their house.  do I KNOW if that happened or not NO, there is no way for me to KNOW that.  someone even told me someone else lived at that house.  I tried to find this person, never found anything like that and I asked her too.  said she never heard of the person.  I can't find anything that says anyone else lived there.  did they?  who knows.  I can't find anything that says they did, other than the person saying it. 


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on July 31, 2009, 08:54:42 PM
DD, do we know who the family friend is that is said to have sent Josh home after Lindsey and him argue?

I THINK I might LOL  but I can't post that and i have only a first name.  so I have not been able to find them.  hard to find someone with only a first name. 

I know, but if I say things I promise not to say how long do you think people will tell me anything LOL   I am true to my word when researching these cases, if someone tells me something and tells me for good reason not to tell it, I won't. 

Brat..lol


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: no rose colored glasses on July 31, 2009, 08:54:50 PM
DD...I finally caught you on here!  Will you just satisfy MY curiosity?  Please check out KaraK's boyfriend/husband.  I'm just not satisified on their end.  Also, any friend could've been on their way to or from their house.  Please?

to be truthful, kara and scott(her bf) were my very first people to look at along with kara's brother wesley and her sister in law michelle flostrom/sheedy.  because kara was on the board I did not put all that stuff out here LOL  but I was behind the scenes asking her straight up about anything I wondered about and if I found something I told her and asked her to explain it.  I did not overlook a one of them.  believe me, poor kara probably thought omg this woman thinks we did this.  but she stuck with me and answered me and even gave me more info that I doubt most people would.  hey I even asked her if she were involved in drugs and could someone be mad at her and thought because lindsey left her house it was one of her kids... I asked her everything.  I checked them out in AZ, all over washington etc.  I checked out her relatives.  I know about her bf and I asked her a lot of things.  I had wondered if lindsey ever really left that house or if she left and one of them caught up with her for whatever reason.  I just did not post all this stuff because she was on the board and I thought perhaps she would leave if I started posting that stuff on here, so I emailed it all to here and asked.  I didn't find anything bad on her bf or her.  doesn't mean I didn't miss something.  so what is my take on them.  truthfully.  I don't know, but nothing for me to go wow they did this.  you have no idea what I thought might have happened when this first started.  I really ragged kara.  I'm supprised she did not tell me off good.  LOL but she didn't.  had it been vise verse.. she would have got an earful from me LOL
Thank-you, I certainly had my suspicions.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on July 31, 2009, 08:55:29 PM
DD, do we know who the family friend is that is said to have sent Josh home after Lindsey and him argue?

I THINK I might LOL  but I can't post that and i have only a first name.  so I have not been able to find them.  hard to find someone with only a first name. 



Brat..lol
fixing my own post, got inside the quote

I know, but if I say things I promise not to say how long do you think people will tell me anything LOL   I am true to my word when researching these cases, if someone tells me something and tells me for good reason not to tell it, I won't. 


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on July 31, 2009, 08:56:18 PM
DD, do we know who the family friend is that is said to have sent Josh home after Lindsey and him argue?

I THINK I might LOL  but I can't post that and i have only a first name.  so I have not been able to find them.  hard to find someone with only a first name. 



Brat..lol
fixing my own post, got inside the quote

I know, but if I say things I promise not to say how long do you think people will tell me anything LOL   I am true to my word when researching these cases, if someone tells me something and tells me for good reason not to tell it, I won't. 


well crap DD posted the above part


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: melisb on July 31, 2009, 08:56:57 PM
Exactly what I was thinking DD!  I still think they deserve another looksee!


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: AZSunny on July 31, 2009, 08:58:06 PM
DD-excellent post.  i think that obviously there are some concerns with jb... but i agree with you that i can't seem to come up with any plausible scenario in which he could have been responsible for lb's disappearance.

the only thing i can think of that could be possible (yet extremely far fetched) is if he dug a deep hole in the woods somewhere and had this planned out, which i find almost impossible.

if he was involved, i dont see how he did this alone. if it was a plot w/friends i dont see how someone hasn't talked yet, or how the rumor mill hasnt started on that.

i originally thought maybe an older teen was responsible for this, but the more time that has passed, and the more i have read on the research everyone has been doing on people, the more i think this was an adult aquantince.

I'm more than willing to listen to the reasons and HOW he could have done this and they not find her, but I just can't figure out myself how come they have not found her if josh did this.  I can't figure out where he would have put her that they can't find her.  I know people can do things together and stay quiet. I am a firm believer in mulitple perps doing stuff together and no one every telling.  but who would have helped Josh.  that is the question.  I can't see how he could hide her by himself.

even if he had a place to hide her, he had to get her there.  if he dragged her on the ground the dogs would know.  if he got her in an empty house or building in town, wouldn't someone know it by now?  in this heat? 

does he have an older friend who drives who would help him?  who would that be.  does he know anyone THAT well who would do that?  where is the "friend" if there is one?  has he been known to hang out with anyone who is that good of friend of his? 

I just don't have any answers to help me with this.

Wayne Watne is an adult he knows and is a friend in the immediate area.   

I can't figure out however how he would do this on the walk, in daylight conditions.  He did have access to the wheel barrow he had used previously that was at the house across from the shell station.    I am still thinking this was an adult, or young adult involved.  I think that Josh must have some learning disabilites and emotional problems.  From what has been said, it appears he is ADD as well.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: AZSunny on July 31, 2009, 08:59:03 PM
Again ... it would be interesting to know what time Josh Baum got home on the evening of June 26, 2009.  Did he go home as the neighbour who intervened in the argument had instructed?  If he was at home with Mom prior to Lindsey's leaving the Kampen resident between 9:15 PM and 9:30 PM then this wannabe detective's speculation will go in another direction.

Janet


Do we know when the mother got home, or if she was home the entire time? 


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: love4ever on July 31, 2009, 08:59:08 PM
DD, do we know who the family friend is that is said to have sent Josh home after Lindsey and him argue?

I THINK I might LOL  but I can't post that and i have only a first name.  so I have not been able to find them.  hard to find someone with only a first name. 



Brat..lol
fixing my own post, got inside the quote

I know, but if I say things I promise not to say how long do you think people will tell me anything LOL   I am true to my word when researching these cases, if someone tells me something and tells me for good reason not to tell it, I won't. 


well crap DD posted the above part

I understand..


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: love4ever on July 31, 2009, 09:06:27 PM
lol..i did it too!


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: cecilita on July 31, 2009, 09:11:05 PM
hello monkeys ::MonkeyDance::
the person sent josh home knew that lindsey will go back home alone.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Tamikosmom on July 31, 2009, 09:11:35 PM
Again ... it would be interesting to know what time Josh Baum got home on the evening of June 26, 2009.  Did he go home as the neighbour who intervened in the argument had instructed?  If he was at home with Mom prior to Lindsey's leaving the Kampen resident between 9:15 PM and 9:30 PM then this wannabe detective's speculation will go in another direction.

Janet


Do we know when the mother got home, or if she was home the entire time? 

 ::MonkeyShocked::

AZSunny ... according to Sheriff Scott ... Melissa Baum passed a polygraph.  I would assume this would rule Lindsey's mom out as committing wrongdoing or having knowledge of wrongdoing.

Janet

+++++


Grays Harbor County Undersheriff Rick Scott

KOMO News – July 2, 2009

The missing girl's mother, who wanted avoid becoming the center of the investigation, voluntarily took a polygraph test. The father of the girl's best friend, Scott Williams, also volunteered to take the test.

"At their requests polygraphs were given to them. They passed those polygraphs. We're comfortable with the information they've shared with us and comfortable with the timeline they've explained," said Grays Harbor County Undersheriff Rick Scott.

http://www.komonews.com/news/49651607.html




Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: love4ever on July 31, 2009, 09:12:26 PM
DD, with all the names listed in Grays harbor county jail for So's failing to register, rape and molestation...and have arresting dates after Lindsey went missing..when researching do you keep that open as an option?


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Tamikosmom on July 31, 2009, 09:12:47 PM
I asked her lots of ?'s too and she did answer but I'm not there looking at her, not that I'm an expert at anything, it just would make some sense if Scott left home for a little while and caught up with Lindsey.  Just trying to make sense out of things that shouldn't have happened anyway.  Thank you so much DD for your swift reply.  I really appreciate it.


Scott Williams voluntarily took a polygraph and passed accounting to Sheriff Scott.

Janet

++++++++

Grays Harbor County Undersheriff Rick Scott

KOMO News – July 2, 2009

The missing girl's mother, who wanted avoid becoming the center of the investigation, voluntarily took a polygraph test. The father of the girl's best friend, Scott Williams, also volunteered to take the test.

"At their requests polygraphs were given to them. They passed those polygraphs. We're comfortable with the information they've shared with us and comfortable with the timeline they've explained," said Grays Harbor County Undersheriff Rick Scott.

http://www.komonews.com/news/49651607.html


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: no rose colored glasses on July 31, 2009, 09:14:36 PM
hello monkeys ::MonkeyDance::
the person sent josh home knew that lindsey will go back home alone.
Hi Cecilita, now that's interesting, I sure wish we knew who this person was, I think it was a woman.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on July 31, 2009, 09:15:25 PM
Exactly what I was thinking DD!  I still think they deserve another looksee!

must be some reason you think that LOL  did you find something ?


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: cecilita on July 31, 2009, 09:17:56 PM
hello monkeys ::MonkeyDance::
the person sent josh home knew that Lindsey will go back home alone.
Hi Cecilita, now that's interesting, I sure wish we knew who this person was, I think it was a woman.
Hi rose,
I am reading about Lindsay brother and what I read I think that he molested his sister? if that is true was easy for him to go home stay for awhile there and then see Lindsey on her way back to home and take her to somewhere else and dosthing to her. If she has been molested by him I believe that he had a lot of control on her and she will do whatever he wants only for fear


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on July 31, 2009, 09:19:58 PM
DD, with all the names listed in Grays harbor county jail for So's failing to register, rape and molestation...and have arresting dates after Lindsey went missing..when researching do you keep that open as an option?

yes.  but I haven't kept up with all of them, but everytime someone mentions one, I look as much as I have time to look.  it takes me a long time to go through all possible connections because I have to use several data bases and keep going back and forth, not like I have the good ones the feds have LOL  so it takes forever to go through all this stuff on one person, but I try to do as many as I can.  then if I find something interesting I look more.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: love4ever on July 31, 2009, 09:24:50 PM
DD, with all the names listed in Grays harbor county jail for So's failing to register, rape and molestation...and have arresting dates after Lindsey went missing..when researching do you keep that open as an option?

yes.  but I haven't kept up with all of them, but everytime someone mentions one, I look as much as I have time to look.  it takes me a long time to go through all possible connections because I have to use several data bases and keep going back and forth, not like I have the good ones the feds have LOL  so it takes forever to go through all this stuff on one person, but I try to do as many as I can.  then if I find something interesting I look more.

There are so many DD, even one on immigration hold who was arrested for rape of a child on July 6th 2009...


HERMENEJILDO-PACHECO, MARTIN

Statute:
9A.44.073 - Rape of a Child 1

http://www.co.grays-harbor.wa.us/info/sheriff/JailRegisters/RegisterDetail.asp?SrchBookNo=172993


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: no rose colored glasses on July 31, 2009, 09:27:13 PM
hello monkeys ::MonkeyDance::
the person sent josh home knew that Lindsey will go back home alone.
Hi Cecilita, now that's interesting, I sure wish we knew who this person was, I think it was a woman.
Hi rose,
I am reading about Lindsay brother and what I read I think that he molested his sister? if that is true was easy for him to go home stay for awhile there and then see Lindsey on her way back to home and take her to somewhere else and dosthing to her. If she has been molested by him I believe that he had a lot of control on her and she will do whatever he wants only for fear
I haven't read that, there are some rumors that he was rather mean to her, but don't know if that is true.  ::MonkeyEek::


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: love4ever on July 31, 2009, 09:57:41 PM
CORONADO, MICHAEL JOSEPH

http://www.co.grays-harbor.wa.us/info/sheriff/JailRegisters/RegisterDetail.asp?SrchBookNo=173242
   
DEITRICK, BRANDON SCOTT

http://www.co.grays-harbor.wa.us/info/sheriff/JailRegisters/RegisterDetail.asp?SrchBookNo=173288

HUFF, BRANDY MARIE

http://www.co.grays-harbor.wa.us/info/sheriff/JailRegisters/RegisterDetail.asp?SrchBookNo=173377

LUDINGTON, DEREK ROBERT

http://www.co.grays-harbor.wa.us/info/sheriff/JailRegisters/RegisterDetail.asp?SrchBookNo=173234

Here's some some DD..I have to finish my studies....


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: love4ever on July 31, 2009, 10:09:11 PM
Pierce County

Today

Booking Date / Time: 
07/31/2009 16:23

WITEK, ADAM WILLIAM

Resist arrest
Fail to register S/O

http://www.co.pierce.wa.us/cfapps/linx/calendar/GetBooking.cfm?booking_id=2009212043


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: love4ever on July 31, 2009, 10:15:44 PM
LOUGH, RYAN ANTHONY     
Booking Date / Time:    07/31/2009 15:12

CHILD RAPE 1


http://www.co.pierce.wa.us/cfapps/linx/calendar/GetBooking.cfm?booking_id=2009212034


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on July 31, 2009, 10:19:53 PM
thanks love4ever, I will put them in the list and check to see if they connect to anything.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: sunshine12 on July 31, 2009, 10:19:59 PM
hello monkeys ::MonkeyDance::
the person sent josh home knew that Lindsey will go back home alone.
Hi Cecilita, now that's interesting, I sure wish we knew who this person was, I think it was a woman.
Hi rose,
I am reading about Lindsay brother and what I read I think that he molested his sister? if that is true was easy for him to go home stay for awhile there and then see Lindsey on her way back to home and take her to somewhere else and dosthing to her. If she has been molested by him I believe that he had a lot of control on her and she will do whatever he wants only for fear


no, i believe what was said is that a child setting fires can be a sign of sexual abuse however that is just in general, not specific about jb.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: love4ever on July 31, 2009, 10:24:34 PM
GOMM, ARRON C     

Arrest Date
02/28/2009 01:34

Out on temporary release

GOMM, ARRON C     

TAKING MOTOR VEHICLE WITHOUT PERMISSION 2ND

FAILING TO REGISTER AS A SEX OFFENDER


http://www.co.pierce.wa.us/cfapps/linx/calendar/GetBooking.cfm?booking_id=2009059012


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: love4ever on July 31, 2009, 10:28:29 PM
COOMBS, JERRY GERALD     

Booking Date / Time:
   07/31/2009 08:31

FAILING TO REGISTER AS A SEX OFFENDER

HOLD FOR MISC. STATE AGENCY


http://www.co.pierce.wa.us/cfapps/linx/calendar/GetBooking.cfm?booking_id=2009212016


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: love4ever on July 31, 2009, 10:31:21 PM
thanks love4ever, I will put them in the list and check to see if they connect to anything.


You are welcome, always DD, there everywhere for godsakes ::MonkeyNoNo::


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Tamikosmom on July 31, 2009, 10:32:11 PM
Did Josh Baum go straight home following the argument he had with his sister as instructed by the "family friend" or ... was there an encounter Lindsey in in the short distance between the neighbours observation and their home?

Was Josh still harboring resentment toward his sister in regards to the dispute over the bike that had taken place 30 minutes prior?

Janet

+++++++


KaraK
Re: Lindsey Baum, 10y missing from McCleary, WA 6/26/09
« Reply #1936 on: July 10, 2009, 07:07:48 PM »


The conversation was apparently quite short and consisted of little more then a "Josh you need to go home" Josh trying to explain what was going on and the girls asking the lady to tell Josh to go home again.
 
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=5541.msg873229#msg873229


The Daily World - July 3, 2009

Kampen said she has replayed that Friday evening in her head over and over. So has her daughter, Michaela, 10, who spent the day swimming with Lindsey. They walked together with Josh Baum, 13, to the Kampen house. But halfway there, Michaela said they teased Josh, getting under his skin ...

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=5541.msg863022


KaraK
Re: Lindsey Baum, 10y missing from McCleary, WA 6/26/09
« Reply #1809 on: July 09, 2009, 04:33:45 AM »


Josh had gotten into so many spats that honestly were in a large part things he did not start but because he was the oldest he was the one who got in trouble. I've set down kids I've never met before to have a talk with them because I heard that they were antagonizing him to see if he'd blow up.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=5541.msg871164;topicseen#msg871164




Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Tamikosmom on July 31, 2009, 10:34:46 PM
I feel for Josh Baum ... my heart breaks.  Many anger issues that follow children into adulthood are rooted in experiences akin to those that KaraK describes.

Nevertheless ... a little ten year girl is missing and ... all avenues in the course of the investigation must be persued.  Justice for Lindsey Baum dictates that no free passes are handed out based on circumstances.

Janet

++++++


KaraK
Re: Lindsey Baum, 10y missing from McCleary, WA 6/26/09
« Reply #1809 on: July 09, 2009, 04:33:45 AM »


Josh had gotten into so many spats that honestly were in a large part things he did not start but because he was the oldest he was the one who got in trouble. I've set down kids I've never met before to have a talk with them because I heard that they were antagonizing him to see if he'd blow up.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=5541.msg871164;topicseen#msg871164

Kara Kampen – Mother of Lindsey’s friend Michaela.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: A_News_Junkie_Monkey on July 31, 2009, 10:35:40 PM
CORONADO, MICHAEL JOSEPH

http://www.co.grays-harbor.wa.us/info/sheriff/JailRegisters/RegisterDetail.asp?SrchBookNo=173242
   
DEITRICK, BRANDON SCOTT

http://www.co.grays-harbor.wa.us/info/sheriff/JailRegisters/RegisterDetail.asp?SrchBookNo=173288

HUFF, BRANDY MARIE

http://www.co.grays-harbor.wa.us/info/sheriff/JailRegisters/RegisterDetail.asp?SrchBookNo=173377

LUDINGTON, DEREK ROBERT

http://www.co.grays-harbor.wa.us/info/sheriff/JailRegisters/RegisterDetail.asp?SrchBookNo=173234

Here's some some DD..I have to finish my studies....

Love4Ever:
The one I highlighted comes up:
 INDALECIO-PEREZ, PAUBLO     
Book# 173377
ID:     85425         
Male,  Age: 33


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: love4ever on July 31, 2009, 10:37:52 PM
BITZ, ANDREW MATHUE

Booking Date / Time:  07/31/2009 08:32

CHILD MOLESTATION 1ST

HOLD FOR MISC. STATE AGENCY


http://www.co.pierce.wa.us/cfapps/linx/calendar/GetBooking.cfm?booking_id=2009212017

BERNAL, WILLIAM TROY

Booking Date / Time:     07/31/2009 10:28

FAILING TO REGISTER AS A SEX OFFENDER

http://www.co.pierce.wa.us/cfapps/linx/calendar/GetBooking.cfm?booking_id=2009212020



You know what DD? It makes me happy that these arrests were all done in one day...It shows that the LE are trying...



Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Tamikosmom on July 31, 2009, 10:38:28 PM

In the process of elimination ... I hope that the concerns of McCleary residents in regards to Lindsey's brother were not not disregarded by Undersheriff Rick Scott.  I hope the concerns of MccCeary residents were taken seriously and ... Josh Baum was not ruled out as a person of interest without investigation ... without questioning and ... without searching.

Janet

++++++++

Grays Harbor Undersheriff Rick Scott

The Olympian - June 30, 2009

Lindsey left her cell phone at home before leaving to play with friends Friday, said Grays Harbor Undersheriff Rick Scott. Lindsey’s older brother had left the Maple Street residence before his sister after the two had a dispute over the bike Lindsey had borrowed from him that day – a common occurrence between frequently squabbling siblings, Scott added.

http://www.theolympian.com/southsound/story/896613.html


Residents of McCleary Speak Out

mlachester 1 day ago wrote:


... Its no big secret she had came to my house to call 911 when her brother had done things to her.

http://www.king5.com/topstories/stories/NW_063009WAB-Mccleary-girl-search-LJ.1fc0b759.html?ocp=2#slcgm_comments_anchor


mlachester 2 hours ago wrote:

I am close to her and I know a lot more than the media or law enforcement are saying right now. … Sorry if you don't like the truth but I have never been one to keep the truth in and she should of been taken the first time she called 911 from my house asking for help instead of put in a police car and taken back to her abuser!"

http://www.king5.com/topstories/stor...omments_anchor


mamahead 13 hours ago wrote:
 
Lindsey has been afraid of her brother for a very long time.  He has threatned her many times. Where is she? And why is the mother not crazy with sadness or emotion. Show us some tears. The friend that Lindsey was last with shows more emotion than the mother. And why was the brother begging for money for fireworks at his little sisters candlelight vigil?

http://www.king5.com/topstories/stories/NW_070609WAB-missing-mccleary-girl-SW.14c01624.html


Lindsey Baum

Lindsey Baum:  Facebook Entry

TWILIGHT FREAK is happy that her brother is going to juvi tomorrow.Mood: happ at 14:10 17 Jun view more

Lindsey Baum is happy that her brother is going to juvie tomorrow.
Mood: Happ at 14:10 17 June

http://www.myspace.com/477760045


Melissa Baum

KING 5 News – July 2, 2009


If a stranger kidnapped 10-year-old Lindsey Baum, her mother says the girl would have put up a fight

“She has very long fingernails,” said Melissa Baum. “Her brother is proof enough of that.”

http://www.king5.com/topstories/stories/NW_070209WAB-mccleary-KS.67b0a9.html



Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: A_News_Junkie_Monkey on July 31, 2009, 10:38:38 PM
CORONADO, MICHAEL JOSEPH

http://www.co.grays-harbor.wa.us/info/sheriff/JailRegisters/RegisterDetail.asp?SrchBookNo=173242
   
DEITRICK, BRANDON SCOTT

http://www.co.grays-harbor.wa.us/info/sheriff/JailRegisters/RegisterDetail.asp?SrchBookNo=173288

HUFF, BRANDY MARIE

http://www.co.grays-harbor.wa.us/info/sheriff/JailRegisters/RegisterDetail.asp?SrchBookNo=173377

LUDINGTON, DEREK ROBERT

http://www.co.grays-harbor.wa.us/info/sheriff/JailRegisters/RegisterDetail.asp?SrchBookNo=173234

Here's some some DD..I have to finish my studies....

Love4Ever:
The one I highlighted comes up:
 INDALECIO-PEREZ, PAUBLO     
Book# 173377
ID:     85425         
Male,  Age: 33


Well, that didn't work out to well!   It was this originally: 
HUFF, BRANDY MARIE

http://www.co.grays-harbor.wa.us/info/sheriff/JailRegisters/RegisterDetail.asp?SrchBookNo=173377

but I am not getting Brandy Huff.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: love4ever on July 31, 2009, 10:39:35 PM
CORONADO, MICHAEL JOSEPH

http://www.co.grays-harbor.wa.us/info/sheriff/JailRegisters/RegisterDetail.asp?SrchBookNo=173242
   
DEITRICK, BRANDON SCOTT

http://www.co.grays-harbor.wa.us/info/sheriff/JailRegisters/RegisterDetail.asp?SrchBookNo=173288

HUFF, BRANDY MARIE

http://www.co.grays-harbor.wa.us/info/sheriff/JailRegisters/RegisterDetail.asp?SrchBookNo=173377

LUDINGTON, DEREK ROBERT

http://www.co.grays-harbor.wa.us/info/sheriff/JailRegisters/RegisterDetail.asp?SrchBookNo=173234

Here's some some DD..I have to finish my studies....

Love4Ever:
The one I highlighted comes up:
 INDALECIO-PEREZ, PAUBLO     
Book# 173377
ID:     85425         
Male,  Age: 33




Sorry about that...here is the correct link for DEITRICK, BRANDON SCOTT...

http://www.co.grays-harbor.wa.us/info/sheriff/JailRegisters/RegisterDetail.asp?SrchBookNo=171161


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: love4ever on July 31, 2009, 10:40:04 PM
LOL..I have too many windows open


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: A_News_Junkie_Monkey on July 31, 2009, 10:42:02 PM
LOL..I have too many windows open

His was right - it was the female - Brandy that came up a male!


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: love4ever on July 31, 2009, 10:44:13 PM
omg, I got it wrong again!!


DEITRICK, BRANDON SCOTT

Fail To Reg Sex/Kidnap Offendr


http://www.co.grays-harbor.wa.us/info/sheriff/JailRegisters/RegisterDetail.asp?SrchBookNo=173288


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: A_News_Junkie_Monkey on July 31, 2009, 10:44:56 PM
CORONADO, MICHAEL JOSEPH

http://www.co.grays-harbor.wa.us/info/sheriff/JailRegisters/RegisterDetail.asp?SrchBookNo=173242
   
DEITRICK, BRANDON SCOTT

http://www.co.grays-harbor.wa.us/info/sheriff/JailRegisters/RegisterDetail.asp?SrchBookNo=173288

HUFF, BRANDY MARIE

http://www.co.grays-harbor.wa.us/info/sheriff/JailRegisters/RegisterDetail.asp?SrchBookNo=173377

LUDINGTON, DEREK ROBERT

http://www.co.grays-harbor.wa.us/info/sheriff/JailRegisters/RegisterDetail.asp?SrchBookNo=173234

Here's some some DD..I have to finish my studies....

Love4Ever:
The one I highlighted comes up:
 INDALECIO-PEREZ, PAUBLO     
Book# 173377
ID:     85425         
Male,  Age: 33




Sorry about that...here is the correct link for DEITRICK, BRANDON SCOTT...

http://www.co.grays-harbor.wa.us/info/sheriff/JailRegisters/RegisterDetail.asp?SrchBookNo=171161

The one originally above is correct for:  DEITRICK, BRANDON SCOTT.

The new link you just gave is for:  DEITRICK, DARRON KEITH

--------------- I hate having multiple windows open - esp when the names are almost the same!


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: love4ever on July 31, 2009, 10:45:20 PM
HUFF, BRANDY MARIE

Fail To Reg Sex/Kidnap Offendr


http://www.co.grays-harbor.wa.us/info/sheriff/JailRegisters/RegisterDetail.asp?SrchBookNo=172944


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: love4ever on July 31, 2009, 10:47:59 PM
Thank you for the correction
A_News_Junkie_Monkey
~Love~

I need to finish my research paper...I will be back later!! ::MonkeyAngel::


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: A_News_Junkie_Monkey on July 31, 2009, 10:48:41 PM
HUFF, BRANDY MARIE

Fail To Reg Sex/Kidnap Offendr


http://www.co.grays-harbor.wa.us/info/sheriff/JailRegisters/RegisterDetail.asp?SrchBookNo=172944

So many kidnapper and SO combo offenders in this area.   Her charges orginally:   Fail To Reg Sex/Kidnap Offendr
Gads.................


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: A_News_Junkie_Monkey on July 31, 2009, 10:49:36 PM
Thank you for the correction
A_News_Junkie_Monkey
~Love~

I need to finish my research paper...I will be back later!! ::MonkeyAngel::

Hurry back and can I read your research paper - I love brain candy! LOL
Have a great night/


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: love4ever on July 31, 2009, 10:50:08 PM
HUFF, BRANDY MARIE

Fail To Reg Sex/Kidnap Offendr


http://www.co.grays-harbor.wa.us/info/sheriff/JailRegisters/RegisterDetail.asp?SrchBookNo=172944

So many kidnapper and SO combo offenders in this area.   Her charges orginally:   Fail To Reg Sex/Kidnap Offendr
Gads.................

Yea scary!! ::MonkeyEek::


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Tamikosmom on July 31, 2009, 10:51:56 PM
The following two posts indicate that Josh Baum in unconcerned over the disappearance of his sister.  If there is lack of caring ... the same mindset could reveal a lack of remorse for lies and actions.

Janet

++++++

mamahead 13 hours ago wrote:
 
Lindsey has been afraid of her brother for a very long time.  He has threatned her many times.  Where is she? And why is the mother not crazy with sadness or emotion. Show us some tears. The friend that Lindsey was last with shows more emotion than the mother. And why was the brother begging for money for fireworks at his little sisters candlelight vigil?

http://www.king5.com/topstories/stories/NW_070609WAB-missing-mccleary-girl-SW.14c01624.html


KaraK
Re: Lindsey Baum, 10y missing from McCleary, WA 6/26/09
« Reply #1795 on: July 09, 2009, 03:13:01 AM »


I am no Dr and I never dug but he does take medication for some condition - more mental than physical. He is not what kids would call "cool" and strikes you as being younger than he actually is if you talk to him. He came over a few times and we'd talk about something and he'd start jabbering about something completely off topic - when we were all out looking for Lindsey I was trying to talk to him about where we'd already looked and he just wanted to know if my son could come over the next day. So I guess you could say unfocused.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=5541.msg871046;topicseen#msg871046

Kara Kampen – Mother of Lindsey’s friend Michaela




Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: love4ever on July 31, 2009, 10:53:58 PM
Thank you for the correction
A_News_Junkie_Monkey
~Love~

I need to finish my research paper...I will be back later!! ::MonkeyAngel::

Hurry back and can I read your research paper - I love brain candy! LOL
Have a great night/

I have about 50 research papers...I have done them anywhere from infant neglect to; does God exist....lol...which one would you like?...I also just finished a 10 page research paper on Morality ::MonkeyConfused::


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: love4ever on July 31, 2009, 10:56:22 PM
The following two posts indicate that Josh Baum in unconcerned over the disappearance of his sister.  If there is lack of caring ... the same mindset could reveal a lack of remorse for lies and actions.

Janet

++++++

mamahead 13 hours ago wrote:
 
Lindsey has been afraid of her brother for a very long time.  He has threatned her many times.  Where is she? And why is the mother not crazy with sadness or emotion. Show us some tears. The friend that Lindsey was last with shows more emotion than the mother. And why was the brother begging for money for fireworks at his little sisters candlelight vigil?

http://www.king5.com/topstories/stories/NW_070609WAB-missing-mccleary-girl-SW.14c01624.html


KaraK
Re: Lindsey Baum, 10y missing from McCleary, WA 6/26/09
« Reply #1795 on: July 09, 2009, 03:13:01 AM »


I am no Dr and I never dug but he does take medication for some condition - more mental than physical. He is not what kids would call "cool" and strikes you as being younger than he actually is if you talk to him. He came over a few times and we'd talk about something and he'd start jabbering about something completely off topic - when we were all out looking for Lindsey I was trying to talk to him about where we'd already looked and he just wanted to know if my son could come over the next day. So I guess you could say unfocused.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=5541.msg871046;topicseen#msg871046

Kara Kampen – Mother of Lindsey’s friend Michaela



It would be better if we knew Josh's middle name...

I willbe back I need to study..~Love~


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: sunshine12 on July 31, 2009, 11:01:23 PM
The following two posts indicate that Josh Baum in unconcerned over the disappearance of his sister.  If there is lack of caring ... the same mindset could reveal a lack of remorse for lies and actions.

Janet

++++++

mamahead 13 hours ago wrote:
 
Lindsey has been afraid of her brother for a very long time.  He has threatned her many times.  Where is she? And why is the mother not crazy with sadness or emotion. Show us some tears. The friend that Lindsey was last with shows more emotion than the mother. And why was the brother begging for money for fireworks at his little sisters candlelight vigil?

http://www.king5.com/topstories/stories/NW_070609WAB-missing-mccleary-girl-SW.14c01624.html


KaraK
Re: Lindsey Baum, 10y missing from McCleary, WA 6/26/09
« Reply #1795 on: July 09, 2009, 03:13:01 AM »


I am no Dr and I never dug but he does take medication for some condition - more mental than physical. He is not what kids would call "cool" and strikes you as being younger than he actually is if you talk to him. He came over a few times and we'd talk about something and he'd start jabbering about something completely off topic - when we were all out looking for Lindsey I was trying to talk to him about where we'd already looked and he just wanted to know if my son could come over the next day. So I guess you could say unfocused.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=5541.msg871046;topicseen#msg871046

Kara Kampen – Mother of Lindsey’s friend Michaela




if we take these 2 witness reports seriously then we are agreeing with the "local rumor mill"..it may be true, it may not be..i have to believe that the police have thoroughly talked to jb

the same questions remain...where would he have hidden her body? i would think the dogs would have tracked it.  i just don't know how practical it is that jb is involved.

in this day in age i just want to say that many children are medicated for "mental health/behavioral problems" that prob shouldn't be..so its very easy for one to put this label on  a child when really they are only going through a difficult time in their life (like the divorce of their parents for example)..  everyone also copes with things in different ways, so who's to say how jb should cope with the fact that his sister is missing?

i just really cant see him being involved


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Tamikosmom on July 31, 2009, 11:17:17 PM
sunshine12

Do you believe that Josh Baum should be given a free pass ... he should be disregarded as a person of interest by investigators in the process of elimination or ... should his actions and whereabouts after he was sent home by the family friend following the dispute with Lindsey and Michaela be investigated?

Janet


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Tamikosmom on July 31, 2009, 11:49:58 PM
Could the truth encompassing the implication that Josh Baum had was involved in any way with the Juvenile Detention System be confirmed or denied by any of our Monkey researchers.  If so ... what was the offence.  It could be that Josh's age may imply that info is not public record.

Thank

Janet

++++++++++

LINDSEY BAUM - IN HER OWN WORDS

Lindsey Baum:  Facebook Entry


TWILIGHT FREAK is happy that her brother is going to juvi tomorrow.Mood: happ at 14:10 17 Jun view more

Lindsey Baum is happy that her brother is going to juvie tomorrow.
Mood: Happ at 14:10 17 June

http://www.myspace.com/477760045


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: JessStar on August 01, 2009, 12:01:57 AM
I know I'll probably catch some flak for this, but I personally think that chasing Josh would be a waste of precious, limited law enforcement resources. It's been quite some time since Lindsey went missing. I'm sure he's been vetted enough. There is no way on God's green earth that a 12 year old boy can pull off something like this-it's been way too quiet way too long. Remember, he's 12. No matter how hard we want to equate his state of mind with someone who is older, he has the mind, and therefore the mental capacity, of a 12 year old. He would have broken by now. There's no way he could stand up to the pressure. Just my opinion. Fire away...


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: AZSunny on August 01, 2009, 12:12:17 AM
Could the truth encompassing the implication that Josh Baum had was involved in any way with the Juvenile Detention System be confirmed or denied by any of our Monkey researchers.  If so ... what was the offence.  It could be that Josh's age may imply that info is not public record.

Thank

Janet

++++++++++

LINDSEY BAUM - IN HER OWN WORDS

Lindsey Baum:  Facebook Entry


TWILIGHT FREAK is happy that her brother is going to juvi tomorrow.Mood: happ at 14:10 17 Jun view more

Lindsey Baum is happy that her brother is going to juvie tomorrow.
Mood: Happ at 14:10 17 June

http://www.myspace.com/477760045


Janet,  there was a link provided earlier, perhaps last week in the threads.  There was a juvenile hearing he attended, and he plead guilty.  Because he is a juvi, what the charge was for we do not know, but it stated a felony.  There was discussion that it was arson related.   

I really do not think he is involved in her disappearance, if he acted alone.  I do not think he could have assisted an adult and still be home for his 10PM curfew. I am pretty sure he was on the radar screen early on, and investigated pretty throughly.  JMO


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: JessStar on August 01, 2009, 12:13:13 AM
As a quick follow-up to my last post, and hopefully to lend some credibility to it, I have cross examined children before. It was the most difficult thing I've ever done in my legal career-for no reason other than the fact that I was staring in the eyes of a child. Not fun. But I can tell you from experience, that it doesn't take much to know when a child is lying or hiding something. I don't care how seasoned he or she is. As Judge Judy would say, adults (especially those trained at it) are still smarter, more clever and astute than a child on his or her best day.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: AZSunny on August 01, 2009, 12:14:32 AM
I know I'll probably catch some flak for this, but I personally think that chasing Josh would be a waste of precious, limited law enforcement resources. It's been quite some time since Lindsey went missing. I'm sure he's been vetted enough. There is no way on God's green earth that a 12 year old boy can pull off something like this-it's been way too quiet way too long. Remember, he's 12. No matter how hard we want to equate his state of mind with someone who is older, he has the mind, and therefore the mental capacity, of a 12 year old. He would have broken by now. There's no way he could stand up to the pressure. Just my opinion. Fire away...

I agree Jess, but I would disagree that he has the mental capacity of a normal 12 year old.  There appears to be some emotional/mental issues at play that make his reasoning far younger than his years.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Tamikosmom on August 01, 2009, 12:17:21 AM
No fire JessStar.

We will just have to respectfully agree to disagree.

1.  I believe that all residents in that two block strench should considered persons of interest and properties should be search.

2.  I believe that the argument between Josh and his sister that warranted intervention less than one hour prior to Lindsey being observed at 5th and Maple dictates that Josh should be considered a person of interest.

3.  Considering Wayne Watnee's connection to both Lindsey and Josh and ... the location of his residence in relation to the Baum residence dictates that this man should be considered a person of interest.

Janet

+++++++

Ockham's Razor

You must never fail to adopt the simplest idea as your working hypothesis. If necessity demands, you can dump it later when you have more data, but only because it is no longer the simplest idea" or "entities should not be multiplied beyond necessity



Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: JessStar on August 01, 2009, 12:19:54 AM
You're right AZ. I should have said that his mental capacity can be no older than a 12 year old.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: JessStar on August 01, 2009, 12:23:24 AM
Personally, under OK-Razor, I'd "dump" the idea that Josh pulled this off because, based on current data, having him as the perp is no longer the simplest idea. The mere passage of time without finding Lindsey or without Josh breaking really lead me there.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Tamikosmom on August 01, 2009, 12:51:28 AM
Could the truth encompassing the implication that Josh Baum had was involved in any way with the Juvenile Detention System be confirmed or denied by any of our Monkey researchers.  If so ... what was the offence.  It could be that Josh's age may imply that info is not public record.

Thank

Janet

++++++++++

LINDSEY BAUM - IN HER OWN WORDS

Lindsey Baum:  Facebook Entry


TWILIGHT FREAK is happy that her brother is going to juvi tomorrow.Mood: happ at 14:10 17 Jun view more

Lindsey Baum is happy that her brother is going to juvie tomorrow.
Mood: Happ at 14:10 17 June

http://www.myspace.com/477760045


Janet,  there was a link provided earlier, perhaps last week in the threads.  There was a juvenile hearing he attended, and he plead guilty.  Because he is a juvi, what the charge was for we do not know, but it stated a felony.  There was discussion that it was arson related.   

I really do not think he is involved in her disappearance, if he acted alone.  I do not think he could have assisted an adult and still be home for his 10PM curfew. I am pretty sure he was on the radar screen early on, and investigated pretty throughly.  JMO

Thanks AZSunny.

I obviously missed this revelation.   I would sure appreciate if a Monkey could provide me with the related link.

So we have no idea what the unrevealed felony charge was that Josh Baum pled guilty to but … it is speculated/rumored that the felony was arson related.  Some have made a choice to give this speculation/rumor credibility and … that is OK..

However … I speculate that the felony was related to the comments of mlachester.  Think about it.  This woman did not hide her identity.  She involved 911 and local LE in the scenario encompassing Lindsey and implicating Josh.  Why would mlachester lie while obviously aware that 911 and LE sources could easily refute her words if fabricated.

Janet

+++++

mlachester 1 day ago wrote:

... Its no big secret she had came to my house to call 911 when her brother had done things to her.

http://www.king5.com/topstories/stories/NW_063009WAB-Mccleary-girl-search-LJ.1fc0b759.html?ocp=2#slcgm_comments_anchor


mlachester 2 hours ago wrote:

I am close to her and I know a lot more than the media or law enforcement are saying right now. … Sorry if you don't like the truth but I have never been one to keep the truth in and she should of been taken the first time she called 911 from my house asking for help instead of put in a police car and taken back to her abuser!"

http://www.king5.com/topstories/stor...omments_anchor



.



Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Tamikosmom on August 01, 2009, 12:57:40 AM
Why was Lindsey so pleased at the prospects of her brother being taken away from the home.  My four grandchildren all have issues with one another ... typical sibling rivalry but ... if there was a threat that one was to be taken away ... the other three would be devastated.

Janet

++++++++

LINDSEY BAUM - IN HER OWN WORDS

Lindsey Baum:  Facebook Entry


TWILIGHT FREAK is happy that her brother is going to juvi tomorrow.Mood: happ at 14:10 17 Jun view more

Lindsey Baum is happy that her brother is going to juvie tomorrow.
Mood: Happ at 14:10 17 June

http://www.myspace.com/477760045


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Tamikosmom on August 01, 2009, 01:05:05 AM
Whatever the truth encompassing the disappearance of Lindsey Baum ... I pray that there will be a conclusion soon.

 ::MonkeyAngel::

Good Night Monkeys!  Good Night Zookeepers!

Janet


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on August 01, 2009, 01:06:27 AM
Personally, under OK-Razor, I'd "dump" the idea that Josh pulled this off because, based on current data, having him as the perp is no longer the simplest idea. The mere passage of time without finding Lindsey or without Josh breaking really lead me there.

these are the very two things that don't work for me also.  I tried to have an open mind to see how it could be he did this, but because of these two things I just can't see how he did.  my personal opinion.  and like I said, if someone can explain these two things away I will reconsider my opinion.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: JessStar on August 01, 2009, 01:12:08 AM
Let's make a deal. If someone can get mlachester to provide the date(s) and approximate time(s)  of the alleged 911 call(s) and, perhaps the phone number from which the call was initiated, I will submit a request for the tapes. They're typically public record.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: JessStar on August 01, 2009, 01:36:13 AM
Good Night everyone. And Good Night Lindsey. We're all here for you, hoping to help bring you home safe and sound. You're in our thoughts and prayers.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: A_News_Junkie_Monkey on August 01, 2009, 01:42:04 AM
Thank you for the correction
A_News_Junkie_Monkey
~Love~

I need to finish my research paper...I will be back later!! ::MonkeyAngel::

Hurry back and can I read your research paper - I love brain candy! LOL
Have a great night/

I have about 50 research papers...I have done them anywhere from infant neglect to; does God exist....lol...which one would you like?...I also just finished a 10 page research paper on Morality ::MonkeyConfused::

Sorry for the OT (promise I won't do it again) but  ....... ALL OF THEM!   


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Nut44x4 on August 01, 2009, 07:16:07 AM
does anyone have any idea what it costs to hire a sketch artist?  a good one? 

I looked it up .....  ::MonkeyCool::
$15-50 an hour plus mileage

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_much_does_a_police_sketch_artist_make_a_year


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Nut44x4 on August 01, 2009, 07:21:39 AM
This is probably old news........

GRAYS HARBOR COUNTY: Reward increases in missing girl case
THE OLYMPIAN | • Published August 01, 2009

The reward for information leading to 11-year-old Lindsey Baum has been raised to $10,000 as investigators continue checking on new leads, according to The Daily World of Aberdeen.

Lindsey’s mother, Melissa, said donations have contributed to the increase in the reward previously offered by Crime Stoppers and the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children.

Lindsey disappeared June 26 while walking a few blocks to her home in McCleary.

Anyone with information about her whereabouts is asked to call 866-915-8299 or send an e-mail to soadmin@co.grays-harbor.wa.us.

http://www.theolympian.com/southsound/story/927389.html


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Tamikosmom on August 01, 2009, 11:19:01 AM
Police chase leads on missing McCleary girl
Updated: 07/30/09   1:42 am
 
Searchers returned to the streets of McCleary under a brutal sun Tuesday to follow up on new leads in the hunt for 11-year-old Lindsey Baum, according to The Daily World of Aberdeen.

About 25 officers and searchers with dogs braved near-record temperatures to re-canvass areas of town, Grays Harbor Undersheriff Rick Scott said.

A recent $6,000 reward for information in the missing girl’s case has produced a new wave of tips, Scott said. Surrounding law enforcement agencies including the Thurston County Sheriff’s Office and the Aberdeen Police Department sent officers to help perform follow-up searches and interviews.

About six core investigators have been leading the effort to find Lindsey, who disappeared while walking a few blocks home June 26. The detectives have found no evidence explaining the 4-foot-9, brown-haired girl’s disappearance, but they continue sorting through thousands of tips.

Officers and volunteers knocked on doors throughout town Tuesday, asking new questions and trying to reach people missed in previous interviews, Scott said.

Two teams with cadaver search dogs also roamed the town, he said, but the hot conditions limited the available scents and quickly wore out the dogs.


Scott said detectives and extra officers expect to follow up on new tips in town for at least the rest of the week. He asked anyone with any potentially helpful information to call 866-915-8299.

http://www.thenewstribune.com/news/northwest/story/827963.html


One month too late.

 ::MonkeyNoNo::


BUMPED


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on August 01, 2009, 11:37:15 AM
Let's make a deal. If someone can get mlachester to provide the date(s) and approximate time(s)  of the alleged 911 call(s) and, perhaps the phone number from which the call was initiated, I will submit a request for the tapes. They're typically public record.

I have already asked someone to ask her about the reports.  hopefully, she will tell them that info. I update and ask specifically for that info. 


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: KarmaRoundUp on August 01, 2009, 11:39:09 AM
Again ... it would be interesting to know what time Josh Baum got home on the evening of June 26, 2009.  Did he go home as the neighbour who intervened in the argument had instructed?  If he was at home with Mom prior to Lindsey's leaving the Kampen resident between 9:15 PM and 9:30 PM then this wannabe detective's speculation will go in another direction.

Janet


Do we know when the mother got home, or if she was home the entire time? 

 ::MonkeyShocked::

AZSunny ... according to Sheriff Scott ... Melissa Baum passed a polygraph.  I would assume this would rule Lindsey's mom out as committing wrongdoing or having knowledge of wrongdoing.

Janet

+++++


Grays Harbor County Undersheriff Rick Scott

KOMO News – July 2, 2009

The missing girl's mother, who wanted avoid becoming the center of the investigation, voluntarily took a polygraph test. The father of the girl's best friend, Scott Williams, also volunteered to take the test.

"At their requests polygraphs were given to them. They passed those polygraphs. We're comfortable with the information they've shared with us and comfortable with the timeline they've explained," said Grays Harbor County Undersheriff Rick Scott.

http://www.komonews.com/news/49651607.html



Speaking of taking polygraphs,does anyone know who the guy is that is with Melissa Baum when she took her poly?


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on August 01, 2009, 11:39:53 AM
does anyone have any idea what it costs to hire a sketch artist?  a good one? 

I looked it up .....  ::MonkeyCool::
$15-50 an hour plus mileage

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_much_does_a_police_sketch_artist_make_a_year


thank you very much.  now I need a list of ones in pierce county.  I'll try to find them still but if someone can help find them, would greatly appreciate help.



Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on August 01, 2009, 11:42:20 AM
Again ... it would be interesting to know what time Josh Baum got home on the evening of June 26, 2009.  Did he go home as the neighbour who intervened in the argument had instructed?  If he was at home with Mom prior to Lindsey's leaving the Kampen resident between 9:15 PM and 9:30 PM then this wannabe detective's speculation will go in another direction.

Janet


Do we know when the mother got home, or if she was home the entire time? 

 ::MonkeyShocked::

AZSunny ... according to Sheriff Scott ... Melissa Baum passed a polygraph.  I would assume this would rule Lindsey's mom out as committing wrongdoing or having knowledge of wrongdoing.

Janet

+++++


Grays Harbor County Undersheriff Rick Scott

KOMO News – July 2, 2009

The missing girl's mother, who wanted avoid becoming the center of the investigation, voluntarily took a polygraph test. The father of the girl's best friend, Scott Williams, also volunteered to take the test.

"At their requests polygraphs were given to them. They passed those polygraphs. We're comfortable with the information they've shared with us and comfortable with the timeline they've explained," said Grays Harbor County Undersheriff Rick Scott.

http://www.komonews.com/news/49651607.html



Speaking of taking polygraphs,does anyone know who the guy is that is with Melissa Baum when she took her poly?

hhhhmmmm, what guy?  I missed the guy I guess?  you mean scott williams? or some other guy?  scott is kk's bf


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: KarmaRoundUp on August 01, 2009, 11:44:26 AM
Does anyone this the guy in this guy(touching the Lindsey poster)looks like the guy below?Could they be the same guy?(guy on the left in the group pic)





Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: KarmaRoundUp on August 01, 2009, 11:47:32 AM
hello monkeys ::MonkeyDance::
the person sent josh home knew that lindsey will go back home alone.
Hi Cecilita, now that's interesting, I sure wish we knew who this person was, I think it was a woman.
I don't think this person who sent Josh home could have known what the plans were for staying the night.Originally Lindsey wanted Kayla to stay at her house that night then the girls changed their minds and wanted Lindsey to stay at Kayla's because the next night they wanted Kayla to stay at Lindsey's.      ::MonkeyConfused::


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: KarmaRoundUp on August 01, 2009, 11:54:44 AM
Or does the guy in the Lindsey poster pic look like this guy?Could they be the same guy?(man on the right in 1st pic,tall man with hat + brown coat in 2nd pic)






Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on August 01, 2009, 12:14:42 PM
Or does the guy in the Lindsey poster pic look like this guy?Could they be the same guy?(man on the right in 1st pic,tall man with hat + brown coat in 2nd pic)






my personally opinion on this guy is, the arms are too hairy and his ears too big??? 


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on August 01, 2009, 12:20:41 PM
Does anyone this the guy in this guy(touching the Lindsey poster)looks like the guy below?Could they be the same guy?(guy on the left in the group pic)





(http://i708.photobucket.com/albums/ww90/doubledeck/lindsey%20baum%20case/baumposterguy1.jpg)(http://i708.photobucket.com/albums/ww90/doubledeck/lindsey%20baum%20case/baumwatnefriend1.jpg)


hmmm, don't know


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: MuffyBee on August 01, 2009, 12:32:47 PM
The guy above has higher check bones and a longer chin then the guy in the lower pic IMO


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: MuffyBee on August 01, 2009, 12:33:50 PM
Notice too, the difference in the ears.  Again, jmo


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: KarmaRoundUp on August 01, 2009, 12:42:51 PM
Again ... it would be interesting to know what time Josh Baum got home on the evening of June 26, 2009.  Did he go home as the neighbour who intervened in the argument had instructed?  If he was at home with Mom prior to Lindsey's leaving the Kampen resident between 9:15 PM and 9:30 PM then this wannabe detective's speculation will go in another direction.

Janet


Do we know when the mother got home, or if she was home the entire time? 

 ::MonkeyShocked::

AZSunny ... according to Sheriff Scott ... Melissa Baum passed a polygraph.  I would assume this would rule Lindsey's mom out as committing wrongdoing or having knowledge of wrongdoing.

Janet

+++++


Grays Harbor County Undersheriff Rick Scott

KOMO News – July 2, 2009

The missing girl's mother, who wanted avoid becoming the center of the investigation, voluntarily took a polygraph test. The father of the girl's best friend, Scott Williams, also volunteered to take the test.

"At their requests polygraphs were given to them. They passed those polygraphs. We're comfortable with the information they've shared with us and comfortable with the timeline they've explained," said Grays Harbor County Undersheriff Rick Scott.

http://www.komonews.com/news/49651607.html



Speaking of taking polygraphs,does anyone know who the guy is that is with Melissa Baum when she took her poly?

hhhhmmmm, what guy?  I missed the guy I guess?  you mean scott williams? or some other guy?  scott is kk's bf
The guy with Melissa was pictured in the video of Melissa going into the police station for her poly.He was right with her and it wasn't her ex hubby or Scott Williams.He is kinda tall and med/slim built,maybe about the same age as Melissa.I'll try to find a image of him.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: KarmaRoundUp on August 01, 2009, 12:47:59 PM
The guy above has higher check bones and a longer chin then the guy in the lower pic IMO
Yes,I see that with the close up shot(thank you DD!)
Also,nose looks bigger in the tall pic.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Heidismom on August 01, 2009, 12:57:50 PM
Janet,
This is the first time I have posted, don't know if I am doing it right.
 But regarding Josh, he had a problem at school this spring, in which the classroom was evacuated, this is public knowledge, told to me by a reliable classmate.  Maybe this had something to do with his juvi thing, I don't know. If the court appearance was due to his mistreating his sister,  I wouldn't think he would be trusted to be the one that was supposed to walk her home. 


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: KarmaRoundUp on August 01, 2009, 01:07:09 PM
OLYMPIA -- The sheriffs of Grays Harbor and Thurston Counties say they'll ask Washington senators Patty Murray, Maria Cantwell, and any House Representatives who will listen to fight for federal COPS money.

The two counties were among 22 Washington counties that applied for federal help to hire deputies. Although many Washington cities got money, the 22 counties got nothing.

Grays Harbor County Sheriff Mike Whelan said he was optimistic he would receive federal stimulus money. Lumber is not exactly the hottest commodity around, the county has budget problems, and they thought for sure their 13.9% unemployment would get them the money.

"When you take a look at the criteria they used, Grays Harbor County was scored out at 97 percent," Whelan said.

Now 97 percent will get you an A+ in college, but on the federal report card, it gets you zero dollars.

Whelan worries about the cost of the unexpected -- for instance the cost of the search for Lindsey Baum, the 11-year-old girl who disappeared while walking home from a friend's home.

Add that to the prospect of more budget cuts, and the lack of federal money could mean troubles ahead.

"When you lay off deputies the crime rate goes up," Whelan said.

Ironically, a higher crime rate might be what they need to the money. Thurston County Sheriff Dan Kimball showed off a plaque he got from an insurance company congratulating him for a low crime rate. But Thurston County failed to qualify for the money because of a low crime rate.

"One of the things we hear is 'your crime rate is not high enough,' " Kimball said. "And it does seem like a kick in the rear end when they say your crime rate's not high enough, therefore we are not going to help you keep that crime rate from going up."

Kimball says he understands crime may be a big problem in bigger cities. But he says the feds need to understand the needs of counties to keep more rural areas safe and if more money comes available in 2010, the counties need a share of the pie.
http://www.komonews.com/news/52227642.html


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: no rose colored glasses on August 01, 2009, 01:07:26 PM
Janet,
This is the first time I have posted, don't know if I am doing it right.
 But regarding Josh, he had a problem at school this spring, in which the classroom was evacuated, this is public knowledge, told to me by a reliable classmate.  Maybe this had something to do with his juvi thing, I don't know. If the court appearance was due to his mistreating his sister,  I wouldn't think he would be trusted to be the one that was supposed to walk her home. 
WELCOME, that is very interesting, wonder what he did that a classroom was evacuated  ::MonkeyEek::


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: KarmaRoundUp on August 01, 2009, 01:09:57 PM
Janet,
This is the first time I have posted, don't know if I am doing it right.
 But regarding Josh, he had a problem at school this spring, in which the classroom was evacuated, this is public knowledge, told to me by a reliable classmate.  Maybe this had something to do with his juvi thing, I don't know. If the court appearance was due to his mistreating his sister,  I wouldn't think he would be trusted to be the one that was supposed to walk her home. 
Welcome to SM's HeidisMom
Thank you for the info.I'm thinking the classroom had to be evacuated because of fire right?


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: AZSunny on August 01, 2009, 01:14:40 PM
Janet,
This is the first time I have posted, don't know if I am doing it right.
 But regarding Josh, he had a problem at school this spring, in which the classroom was evacuated, this is public knowledge, told to me by a reliable classmate.  Maybe this had something to do with his juvi thing, I don't know. If the court appearance was due to his mistreating his sister,  I wouldn't think he would be trusted to be the one that was supposed to walk her home. 

Thanks Heidismom for the information, and WELCOME!!  You posted perfectly!


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Tamikosmom on August 01, 2009, 01:15:35 PM
Janet,
This is the first time I have posted, don't know if I am doing it right.
 But regarding Josh, he had a problem at school this spring, in which the classroom was evacuated, this is public knowledge, told to me by a reliable classmate.  Maybe this had something to do with his juvi thing, I don't know. If the court appearance was due to his mistreating his sister,  I wouldn't think he would be trusted to be the one that was supposed to walk her home. 

The point is ... we are all speculating.  Nobody knows for certain what was the felony that Josh Baum pleaded guilty to.  Nevertheless ... it does appear that this young man has his share of issues.

To tell the truth ... my focus in the disappearance of Lindsey Baum ... a focus that dictates that all avenues that lead back to this little girl on that walk home along Maple should be investigated.

Heidismom ... Welcome to Scared Monkeys.  I hope you continue posting.  This is a great site.  Lots of topics.

Janet



Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on August 01, 2009, 01:22:55 PM
I don't want to clutter up the thread or board with more of my "craziness" so I'll just post a link.  For any of you who believe in dreams or other spiritual or psychic info. 

http://truecrime.forums-free.com/asas-the-koran-backpack-description-t265.html


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: no rose colored glasses on August 01, 2009, 01:29:52 PM
I don't want to clutter up the thread or board with more of my "craziness" so I'll just post a link.  For any of you who believe in dreams or other spiritual or psychic info. 

http://truecrime.forums-free.com/asas-the-koran-backpack-description-t265.html
  ::MonkeyEek::  That is very interesting, and yes I believe in dreams, spiritual and psychic info, I'm open to all kinds of things. I will then sort through what makes sense and what doesn't.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: KarmaRoundUp on August 01, 2009, 01:31:02 PM
DD,I'm sorry,I can't find the video that shows Melissa walking into the police station to take her poly....with that guy walking with her.It sure seemed he was with her specifically though and I wondered who he was.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on August 01, 2009, 01:32:54 PM
I don't want to clutter up the thread or board with more of my "craziness" so I'll just post a link.  For any of you who believe in dreams or other spiritual or psychic info. 

http://truecrime.forums-free.com/asas-the-koran-backpack-description-t265.html
  ::MonkeyEek::  That is very interesting, and yes I believe in dreams, spiritual and psychic info, I'm open to all kinds of things. I will then sort through what makes sense and what doesn't.

I normally would not say anything on here, but maybe one of the locals might recognize the guy or the old piece of building.  Other than that I don't wish to discuss this stuff on here, but I will discuss it on the links there.  Out of respect of this board, so no one thinks the board has gone bonkers LOL


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on August 01, 2009, 01:34:48 PM
DD,I'm sorry,I can't find the video that shows Melissa walking into the police station to take her poly....with that guy walking with her.It sure seemed he was with her specifically though and I wondered who he was.

let me look in my stuff, I try to save all the articles and video links. 

I did get behind is saving them in this case though, but the ones I do have anyone is welcome to use them etc they are here
http://truecrime.forums-free.com/lindsey-baum-news-articles-media-f45.html

the ones with the little white thing in front are the videos, the others are all articles.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: no rose colored glasses on August 01, 2009, 01:35:23 PM
I don't want to clutter up the thread or board with more of my "craziness" so I'll just post a link.  For any of you who believe in dreams or other spiritual or psychic info. 

http://truecrime.forums-free.com/asas-the-koran-backpack-description-t265.html
  ::MonkeyEek::  That is very interesting, and yes I believe in dreams, spiritual and psychic info, I'm open to all kinds of things. I will then sort through what makes sense and what doesn't.

I normally would not say anything on here, but maybe one of the locals might recognize the guy or the old piece of building.  Other than that I don't wish to discuss this stuff on here, but I will discuss it on the links there.  Out of respect of this board, so no one thinks the board has gone bonkers LOL
That's a good idea, but at the same time I would doubt if anyone would think the board has gone bonkers  ::MonkeyEek::  Very interesting forum that you have linked, thanks.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Heidismom on August 01, 2009, 01:40:47 PM
Janet,
This is the first time I have posted, don't know if I am doing it right.
 But regarding Josh, he had a problem at school this spring, in which the classroom was evacuated, this is public knowledge, told to me by a reliable classmate.  Maybe this had something to do with his juvi thing, I don't know. If the court appearance was due to his mistreating his sister,  I wouldn't think he would be trusted to be the one that was supposed to walk her home. 
Welcome to SM's HeidisMom
Thank you for the info.I'm thinking the classroom had to be evacuated because of fire right?


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: AZSunny on August 01, 2009, 01:40:51 PM
I don't want to clutter up the thread or board with more of my "craziness" so I'll just post a link.  For any of you who believe in dreams or other spiritual or psychic info. 

http://truecrime.forums-free.com/asas-the-koran-backpack-description-t265.html

Very interesting. 

When I was in my mid 20's I had a very vivid dream regarding my grandparents home burning down. I lived in Washington State and they were in Florida.   They owned a boarding house. The dream  was so real I called them to see if they were OK. They laughed and said they were fine, but thanks for being concerned.  I asked them to check everything, because the dream was very real and very vivid. 

10 days later my Aunt called me, and their home had been totally destroyed in a fire.  They got out safely, thankfully, but my family told me not to tell them about any more dreams.  LOL


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Heidismom on August 01, 2009, 01:45:22 PM
Fire was not mentioned to me by his classmate.   (I don't know how reply to a specific post)


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: AZSunny on August 01, 2009, 01:48:46 PM
Fire was not mentioned to me by his classmate.   (I don't know how reply to a specific post)
[/b][/color]

Heidi, you can hit the quote button to the right of the post.  the quote will appear in your reply box.  Scroll all the way down past the  comments to the last quote marks (as highlighted above) add a space and then post your comments. 


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: AZSunny on August 01, 2009, 01:49:48 PM
well the quote box didn't highlight...but it says [/quote] we will see if this works.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: AZSunny on August 01, 2009, 01:54:17 PM
DD...for what it is worth...


Acronym Definition
ASAS All Source Analysis System
ASAS Australian Special Air Service
ASAS American Society of Animal Science
ASAS American Society of Animal Science (Savoy, IL)
ASAS Airborne Separation Assurance System
ASAS All Saints Anglican School (Gold Coast, Australia)
ASAS Advanced Solid Axial Stage
ASAS Advanced Solid-state Array Spectrometer
ASAS Actor/Scriptor Animation System
ASAS American Society of Abdominal Surgeons
ASAS Another Side, Another Story (video game Kingdom Hearts)
ASAS Academic Standards and Assessment System
ASAS Alberta Secure Access Service (Canada)
ASAS Aerodynamic Stability Augmentation System
ASAS Addiction & Substance Abuse Specialists
ASAS Association of Southeast Asian Students
ASAS Airborne Student Accountability System
ASAS Argininosuccinic Acid Synthase Deficiency
ASAS Aviation Safety Analysis Subsystem
ASAS Automated Single Audio System (SA-2112/USQ)
ASAS Atkins Stress Analysis System


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on August 01, 2009, 01:55:05 PM
I don't want to clutter up the thread or board with more of my "craziness" so I'll just post a link.  For any of you who believe in dreams or other spiritual or psychic info. 

http://truecrime.forums-free.com/asas-the-koran-backpack-description-t265.html
  ::MonkeyEek::  That is very interesting, and yes I believe in dreams, spiritual and psychic info, I'm open to all kinds of things. I will then sort through what makes sense and what doesn't.

I normally would not say anything on here, but maybe one of the locals might recognize the guy or the old piece of building.  Other than that I don't wish to discuss this stuff on here, but I will discuss it on the links there.  Out of respect of this board, so no one thinks the board has gone bonkers LOL
That's a good idea, but at the same time I would doubt if anyone would think the board has gone bonkers  ::MonkeyEek::  Very interesting forum that you have linked, thanks.

that is MY research board, that is where I get things in categories so I can find it LOL
I'm skye over there.  feel free to use anything there, over here.  I don't mind


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: KarmaRoundUp on August 01, 2009, 02:03:03 PM
Found it finally
Melissa walking into the police station,right at the 1:26 mark.I don't know how to get the image off of the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GTulbXxRCk




Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: no rose colored glasses on August 01, 2009, 02:09:35 PM
Thanks DD.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: AZSunny on August 01, 2009, 02:14:21 PM
Found it finally
Melissa walking into the police station,right at the 1:26 mark.I don't know how to get the image off of the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GTulbXxRCk




Karma,  he resembles Lindsey's father to me.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on August 01, 2009, 02:14:40 PM
Found it finally
Melissa walking into the police station,right at the 1:26 mark.I don't know how to get the image off of the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GTulbXxRCk




not too great of photo but here he is

(http://i708.photobucket.com/albums/ww90/doubledeck/lindsey%20baum%20case/baummomnguy1.jpg)


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on August 01, 2009, 02:19:54 PM
Lindsey's Father

(http://i708.photobucket.com/albums/ww90/doubledeck/lindsey%20baum%20case/baum-dad-1.jpg)


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Tamikosmom on August 01, 2009, 02:39:12 PM
Maybe the LE are attempting to connect the dots in regards to "what info is known" in the latest search.

Janet

+++++++

Expert: Missing girl likely went with someone she knew
09:58 PM PDT on Wednesday, July 1, 2009


A national expert helping in the search for 10-year-old Lindsey Baum says someone Lindsey knew might be responsible for her disappearance. Baum vanished while walking home from a friend’s house Friday around 9 p.m.

"Based on the information I have, it’s someone she possibly knows or is in the area, not outside the area," said Henry Schmidt, with the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children.

Schmidt, a retired sheriff from Wyoming, arrived in McCleary to assist with the search Sunday.

http://www.nwcn.com/statenews/washington/stories/NW_070109WAB-mccleary-KS.260ea8b9.html


Police chase leads on missing McCleary girl
Updated: 07/30/09


Officers and volunteers knocked on doors throughout town Tuesday, asking new questions and trying to reach people missed in previous interviews, Scott said.
 
Two teams with cadaver search dogs also roamed the town, he said, but the hot conditions limited the available scents and quickly wore out the dogs.

http://www.thenewstribune.com/news/northwest/story/827963.html



Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on August 01, 2009, 02:39:36 PM
you can see lindsey's dad's sunglasses here

(http://i708.photobucket.com/albums/ww90/doubledeck/lindsey%20baum%20case/baum-dadglasses1.jpg)

is this guy wearing the same sunglasses?

(http://i708.photobucket.com/albums/ww90/doubledeck/lindsey%20baum%20case/baum-mom-guy4.jpg)





Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on August 01, 2009, 02:42:16 PM
more of the guy with lindsey's mom

(http://i708.photobucket.com/albums/ww90/doubledeck/lindsey%20baum%20case/baum-mom-guy-3.jpg)

(http://i708.photobucket.com/albums/ww90/doubledeck/lindsey%20baum%20case/baum-mom-guy5.jpg)

(http://i708.photobucket.com/albums/ww90/doubledeck/lindsey%20baum%20case/baum-mom-guy2.jpg)





Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Tamikosmom on August 01, 2009, 02:58:32 PM
Found it finally
Melissa walking into the police station,right at the 1:26 mark.I don't know how to get the image off of the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GTulbXxRCk


Karma,  he resembles Lindsey's father to me.

AZSunny ... I do not think it is Lindsey's father who accompanied Melissa Baum to the polygraph..

When the following two articles are taken into consideration ... Scott Baum did not arrive in McCleary until July 4th or 5th.  Sheriff Scott claimed on July 2nd that Melissa Barum had taken a polygraph.

Janet

++++++++++

KOMO News – July 2, 2009

The missing girl's mother, who wanted avoid becoming the center of the investigation, voluntarily took a polygraph test. The father of the girl's best friend, Scott Williams, also volunteered to take the test.

"At their requests polygraphs were given to them. They passed those polygraphs. We're comfortable with the information they've shared with us and comfortable with the timeline they've explained," said Grays Harbor County Undersheriff Rick Scott.

http://www.komonews.com/news/49651607.html


KOMO News – Monday, July 6, 2009

Baum, who lives in Tennessee, arrived in McCleary over the weekend with his heart in a knot. The father said he had to get clearance from his military superiors before making the trip.

Baum hadn't seen his daughter, Lindsey Baum, in a year. He and her mother divorced three years ago. He stayed in Tennessee and his ex-wife moved to Washington with their daughter.

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/50075052.html




 




Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: AZSunny on August 01, 2009, 03:04:14 PM
Found it finally
Melissa walking into the police station,right at the 1:26 mark.I don't know how to get the image off of the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GTulbXxRCk


Karma,  he resembles Lindsey's father to me.

AZSunny ... I do not think it is Lindsey's father who accompanied Melissa Baum to the polygraph..

When the following two articles are taken into consideration ... Scott Baum did not arrive in McCleary until July 4th or 5th.  Sheriff Scott claimed on July 2nd that Melissa Barum had taken a polygraph.

Janet

++++++++++

KOMO News – July 2, 2009

The missing girl's mother, who wanted avoid becoming the center of the investigation, voluntarily took a polygraph test. The father of the girl's best friend, Scott Williams, also volunteered to take the test.

"At their requests polygraphs were given to them. They passed those polygraphs. We're comfortable with the information they've shared with us and comfortable with the timeline they've explained," said Grays Harbor County Undersheriff Rick Scott.

http://www.komonews.com/news/49651607.html


KOMO News – Monday, July 6, 2009

Baum, who lives in Tennessee, arrived in McCleary over the weekend with his heart in a knot. The father said he had to get clearance from his military superiors before making the trip.

Baum hadn't seen his daughter, Lindsey Baum, in a year. He and her mother divorced three years ago. He stayed in Tennessee and his ex-wife moved to Washington with their daughter.

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/50075052.html




 




Good catch on the dates.  Perhaps the video was taken another day.  The video is shown on TV on July 8th.  Two days after he arrived.   That is 6 days after the polygraph if it were taken on the 1st or 2nd.  I do think that is her father.  I think they were just going to talk to the police. 


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Tracygirl on August 01, 2009, 03:06:09 PM
Hello everyone,
I am so far behind I will never catch up. From these last posts I can gather Lindsey has not been found yet  ::MonkeyWaa::
I will try to figure out the happenings but but if someone cares to give a quick update, it would be appreciated.

BTW, FIL's burial went well. We got back into town a day or so ago.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Tamikosmom on August 01, 2009, 03:08:10 PM


Good catch on the dates.  Perhaps the video was taken another day.  The video is shown on TV on July 8th.  Two days after he arrived.   That is 6 days after the polygraph if it were taken on the 1st or 2nd.  I do think that is her father.  I think they were just going to talk to the police.

[/quote]

Thank makes sense.

AZSunny ... thinking of you and your family.

 ::MonkeyAngel::

Janet


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Tamikosmom on August 01, 2009, 03:11:36 PM

Good catch on the dates.  Perhaps the video was taken another day.  The video is shown on TV on July 8th.  Two days after he arrived.   That is 6 days after the polygraph if it were taken on the 1st or 2nd.  I do think that is her father.  I think they were just going to talk to the police. 

That makes sense.

AZSunny ... thinking of you and your family.

 ::MonkeyAngel::

Janet


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: KarmaRoundUp on August 01, 2009, 03:17:09 PM
Found it finally
Melissa walking into the police station,right at the 1:26 mark.I don't know how to get the image off of the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GTulbXxRCk




Karma,  he resembles Lindsey's father to me.
Kinda but Scott has more grey in his face hair and head hair and Scott's face is rounder and he looks stockier to me.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: KarmaRoundUp on August 01, 2009, 03:18:58 PM
Found it finally
Melissa walking into the police station,right at the 1:26 mark.I don't know how to get the image off of the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GTulbXxRCk




not too great of photo but here he is

(http://i708.photobucket.com/albums/ww90/doubledeck/lindsey%20baum%20case/baummomnguy1.jpg)
Thanks DD!
So what do you think?Ever see him before?Are they really walking in together?     ::MonkeyConfused::


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: KarmaRoundUp on August 01, 2009, 03:23:39 PM
more of the guy with lindsey's mom

(http://i708.photobucket.com/albums/ww90/doubledeck/lindsey%20baum%20case/baum-mom-guy-3.jpg)

(http://i708.photobucket.com/albums/ww90/doubledeck/lindsey%20baum%20case/baum-mom-guy5.jpg)

(http://i708.photobucket.com/albums/ww90/doubledeck/lindsey%20baum%20case/baum-mom-guy2.jpg)




That doesn't look like Scott to me.This guy is not wearing sunglasses and I think Scott didn't get into town until after Melissa took her poly.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: KarmaRoundUp on August 01, 2009, 03:24:53 PM
Found it finally
Melissa walking into the police station,right at the 1:26 mark.I don't know how to get the image off of the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GTulbXxRCk


Karma,  he resembles Lindsey's father to me.

AZSunny ... I do not think it is Lindsey's father who accompanied Melissa Baum to the polygraph..

When the following two articles are taken into consideration ... Scott Baum did not arrive in McCleary until July 4th or 5th.  Sheriff Scott claimed on July 2nd that Melissa Barum had taken a polygraph.

Janet

++++++++++

KOMO News – July 2, 2009

The missing girl's mother, who wanted avoid becoming the center of the investigation, voluntarily took a polygraph test. The father of the girl's best friend, Scott Williams, also volunteered to take the test.

"At their requests polygraphs were given to them. They passed those polygraphs. We're comfortable with the information they've shared with us and comfortable with the timeline they've explained," said Grays Harbor County Undersheriff Rick Scott.

http://www.komonews.com/news/49651607.html


KOMO News – Monday, July 6, 2009

Baum, who lives in Tennessee, arrived in McCleary over the weekend with his heart in a knot. The father said he had to get clearance from his military superiors before making the trip.

Baum hadn't seen his daughter, Lindsey Baum, in a year. He and her mother divorced three years ago. He stayed in Tennessee and his ex-wife moved to Washington with their daughter.

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/50075052.html




 



Thank you Janet
I should have read ahead before replying.     ::MonkeyWink::


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: KarmaRoundUp on August 01, 2009, 03:31:20 PM
Thank you DD for the images.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: MuffyBee on August 01, 2009, 03:44:38 PM
Thank you DD for the images.

Ditto.  Thanks for the images, DD.

Hello Tams  :2waver:


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on August 01, 2009, 04:29:36 PM
did anyone here follow the kylie ellis case?  if so ONE QUICK question please... do you believe she committed suicide,

and one quick statement

she was found less that 8 miles from the ft lewis area where they lady said she saw lindsey with Adam Campbell and another man. 

I did not follow the case, know nothing about it, but intend on researching it to see if any connections, however, just wanted opinion of anyone who followed the case to see if anyone thinks she really committed suicide or not. 

thanks


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: MuffyBee on August 01, 2009, 04:35:26 PM
did anyone here follow the kylie ellis case?  if so ONE QUICK question please... do you believe she committed suicide,

and one quick statement

she was found less that 8 miles from the ft lewis area where they lady said she saw lindsey with Adam Campbell and another man. 

I did not follow the case, know nothing about it, but intend on researching it to see if any connections, however, just wanted opinion of anyone who followed the case to see if anyone thinks she really committed suicide or not. 

thanks

This is what I found here at SM:

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4583.msg830214#msg830214

We don't have a thread for her, but here is comment.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: concernedmommyinwa on August 01, 2009, 04:39:44 PM
did anyone here follow the kylie ellis case?  if so ONE QUICK question please... do you believe she committed suicide,

and one quick statement

she was found less that 8 miles from the ft lewis area where they lady said she saw lindsey with Adam Campbell and another man. 

I did not follow the case, know nothing about it, but intend on researching it to see if any connections, however, just wanted opinion of anyone who followed the case to see if anyone thinks she really committed suicide or not. 

thanks

DD, I knew Kylie. She was a handful, had been driving her parents nuts with the crap she was doing, but nobody thought she was suicidal. She was a dramatic girl, full of emotion, but full of life. Her father doesn't think even the police think it was suicide.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on August 01, 2009, 05:44:31 PM
did anyone here follow the kylie ellis case?  if so ONE QUICK question please... do you believe she committed suicide,

and one quick statement

she was found less that 8 miles from the ft lewis area where they lady said she saw lindsey with Adam Campbell and another man. 

I did not follow the case, know nothing about it, but intend on researching it to see if any connections, however, just wanted opinion of anyone who followed the case to see if anyone thinks she really committed suicide or not. 

thanks

DD, I knew Kylie. She was a handful, had been driving her parents nuts with the crap she was doing, but nobody thought she was suicidal. She was a dramatic girl, full of emotion, but full of life. Her father doesn't think even the police think it was suicide.

thank you very much.  I am very glad to hear this about no one thinking she committed suicide.  I am going to research her case as though it were an unsolved murder. 


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Tamikosmom on August 01, 2009, 07:36:39 PM
The flushing of the water and treatment systems could have masked the initial strench of body decomposition body.  However ... after over a month ... would there still be a decomposition order?

What if Lindsey's remains were not disposed of but ... are out of sight ... maybe covered with debris or foilage.  Maybe her remains are lying not far from where she was last observed two blocks from home by a family friend who was driving to work.  Maybe a thorough search with the dogs should be conducted by authorities on ALL properties in that two block stretch.

Remember Jessica Lundsford.  This little girl's remains were found on property within a stone throw from her home ... from the bed she was abducted from. 

Janet

+++++++

McCleary Water / Wastewater manages both the water system from the wells into homes and businesses and the sewer system that takes wastewater to the treatment plant.

WATER SYSTEM FLUSHING

June 22nd through July 2nd


The City crew will be flushing the water system using various fire hydrants around town, click on the link below to read the entire Public Notice and what to do in your area when the flushing takes place.

Hydrant flushing notice 

Wastewater Treatment

Water System

http://www.cityofmccleary.com/index.asp?Type=B_BASIC&SEC={CAF3B3FA-696A-4B0F-B441-C68ADF931009}


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Tamikosmom on August 01, 2009, 07:47:33 PM
MuffyBee

decomposition order? s/b decomposition odor?

Thanks

I hope you are having a good day.

It is dinner time for me.

Janet
4:40 PM PT



Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Heidismom on August 01, 2009, 08:42:20 PM
The flushing of the water and treatment systems could have masked the initial strench of body decomposition body.  However ... after over a month ... would there still be a decomposition order?

What if Lindsey's remains were not disposed of but ... are out of sight ... maybe covered with debris or foilage.  Maybe her remains are lying not far from where she was last observed two blocks from home by a family friend who was driving to work.  Maybe a thorough search with the dogs should be conducted by authorities on ALL properties in that two block stretch.

Remember Jessica Lundsford.  This little girl's remains were found on property within a stone throw from her home ... from the bed she was abducted from. 

Janet

+++++++

McCleary Water / Wastewater manages both the water system from the wells into homes and businesses and the sewer system that takes wastewater to the treatment plant.

WATER SYSTEM FLUSHING

June 22nd through July 2nd


The City crew will be flushing the water system using various fire hydrants around town, click on the link below to read the entire Public Notice and what to do in your area when the flushing takes place.

Hydrant flushing notice 

Wastewater Treatment

Water System

http://www.cityofmccleary.com/index.asp?Type=B_BASIC&SEC={CAF3B3FA-696A-4B0F-B441-C68ADF931009}

While I don't know which houses were searched, I do know that yards were searched several blocks away.  Ours was searched, along with all our neighbors.  Day after day the dogs were on our street, mainly to gain access to another area.  The dogs appeared well trained to my uneducated eye, nose to the ground most of the time,  Concentrating on their business.  There were two large schnauzers, bloodhounds, german sheherds &  last was a golden retriever.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Tamikosmom on August 01, 2009, 08:49:46 PM
The flushing of the water and treatment systems could have masked the initial strench of body decomposition body.  However ... after over a month ... would there still be a decomposition order?

What if Lindsey's remains were not disposed of but ... are out of sight ... maybe covered with debris or foilage.  Maybe her remains are lying not far from where she was last observed two blocks from home by a family friend who was driving to work.  Maybe a thorough search with the dogs should be conducted by authorities on ALL properties in that two block stretch.

Remember Jessica Lundsford.  This little girl's remains were found on property within a stone throw from her home ... from the bed she was abducted from. 

Janet

+++++++

McCleary Water / Wastewater manages both the water system from the wells into homes and businesses and the sewer system that takes wastewater to the treatment plant.

WATER SYSTEM FLUSHING

June 22nd through July 2nd


The City crew will be flushing the water system using various fire hydrants around town, click on the link below to read the entire Public Notice and what to do in your area when the flushing takes place.

Hydrant flushing notice 

Wastewater Treatment

Water System

http://www.cityofmccleary.com/index.asp?Type=B_BASIC&SEC={CAF3B3FA-696A-4B0F-B441-C68ADF931009}

While I don't know which houses were searched, I do know that yards were searched several blocks away.  Ours was searched, along with all our neighbors.  Day after day the dogs were on our street, mainly to gain access to another area.  The dogs appeared well trained to my uneducated eye, nose to the ground most of the time,  Concentrating on their business.  There were two large schnauzers, bloodhounds, german sheherds &  last was a golden retriever.


Thank you Heidismom.

Do you have any idea if the properties along Maple between 15th and the Baum residence were thoroughly searched.  According to authorities some of the residents had yet to be contacted up to a couple of days ago in regards to questioning.  I wonder if properties can be searched without homeowners' permission.

Janet


+++++

(http://i708.photobucket.com/albums/ww90/doubledeck/lindsey%20baum%20case/baumwatnemap1.jpg)

credit: doubledecker


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: no rose colored glasses on August 01, 2009, 08:55:36 PM
Thanks for that info Heidismom.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Heidismom on August 01, 2009, 09:04:31 PM
The flushing of the water and treatment systems could have masked the initial strench of body decomposition body.  However ... after over a month ... would there still be a decomposition order?

What if Lindsey's remains were not disposed of but ... are out of sight ... maybe covered with debris or foilage.  Maybe her remains are lying not far from where she was last observed two blocks from home by a family friend who was driving to work.  Maybe a thorough search with the dogs should be conducted by authorities on ALL properties in that two block stretch.

Remember Jessica Lundsford.  This little girl's remains were found on property within a stone throw from her home ... from the bed she was abducted from. 

Janet

+++++++

McCleary Water / Wastewater manages both the water system from the wells into homes and businesses and the sewer system that takes wastewater to the treatment plant.

WATER SYSTEM FLUSHING

June 22nd through July 2nd


The City crew will be flushing the water system using various fire hydrants around town, click on the link below to read the entire Public Notice and what to do in your area when the flushing takes place.

Hydrant flushing notice 

Wastewater Treatment

Water System

http://www.cityofmccleary.com/index.asp?Type=B_BASIC&SEC={CAF3B3FA-696A-4B0F-B441-C68ADF931009}

While I don't know which houses were searched, I do know that yards were searched several blocks away.  Ours was searched, along with all our neighbors.  Day after day the dogs were on our street, mainly to gain access to another area.  The dogs appeared well trained to my uneducated eye, nose to the ground most of the time,  Concentrating on their business.  There were two large schnauzers, bloodhounds, german sheherds &  last was a golden retriever.


Thank you Heidismom.

Do you have any idea if the properties along Maple between 15th and the Baum residence were thoroughly searched.  According to authorities some of the residents had yet to be contacted up to a couple of days ago in regards to questioning.  I wonder if properties can be searched without homeowners' permission.

Janet


+++++

(http://i708.photobucket.com/albums/ww90/doubledeck/lindsey%20baum%20case/baumwatnemap1.jpg)

credit: doubledecker
[/quote  I don't know about on Maple, I do know that although they told us they didn't search without permission, I saw search dogs in two yards where the owners were not home.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: no rose colored glasses on August 01, 2009, 09:14:58 PM
Heidismom  how are the people in town acting? Is activity somewhat back to normal, or are people being cautious and looking at certain people in town and being suspicious? Are the children out and about or with parents out with them? Being from a small town originally, I know how gossip must be, kind of hard not to.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Tamikosmom on August 01, 2009, 09:47:47 PM
The flushing of the water and treatment systems could have masked the initial strench of body decomposition body.  However ... after over a month ... would there still be a decomposition order?

What if Lindsey's remains were not disposed of but ... are out of sight ... maybe covered with debris or foilage.  Maybe her remains are lying not far from where she was last observed two blocks from home by a family friend who was driving to work.  Maybe a thorough search with the dogs should be conducted by authorities on ALL properties in that two block stretch.

Remember Jessica Lundsford.  This little girl's remains were found on property within a stone throw from her home ... from the bed she was abducted from. 

Janet

+++++++

McCleary Water / Wastewater manages both the water system from the wells into homes and businesses and the sewer system that takes wastewater to the treatment plant.

WATER SYSTEM FLUSHING

June 22nd through July 2nd


The City crew will be flushing the water system using various fire hydrants around town, click on the link below to read the entire Public Notice and what to do in your area when the flushing takes place.

Hydrant flushing notice 

Wastewater Treatment

Water System

http://www.cityofmccleary.com/index.asp?Type=B_BASIC&SEC={CAF3B3FA-696A-4B0F-B441-C68ADF931009}

While I don't know which houses were searched, I do know that yards were searched several blocks away.  Ours was searched, along with all our neighbors.  Day after day the dogs were on our street, mainly to gain access to another area.  The dogs appeared well trained to my uneducated eye, nose to the ground most of the time,  Concentrating on their business.  There were two large schnauzers, bloodhounds, german sheherds &  last was a golden retriever.


Thank you Heidismom.

Do you have any idea if the properties along Maple between 15th and the Baum residence were thoroughly searched.  According to authorities some of the residents had yet to be contacted up to a couple of days ago in regards to questioning.  I wonder if properties can be searched without homeowners' permission.

Janet


+++++

(http://i708.photobucket.com/albums/ww90/doubledeck/lindsey%20baum%20case/baumwatnemap1.jpg)


credit: doubledecker
[/quote  I don't know about on Maple, I do know that although they told us they didn't search without permission, I saw search dogs in two yards where the owners were not home.


Thank you Heidismom.

I have email the FBI agent ... Ronald Twersky ... regarding my suspicions encompassing these properties.  I receeived a very nice form response.  Probably the same response sent to all who email regarding the case.  I was hoping for direct answers.

 ::MonkeyWaa::

Janet




Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: mamacrazy30 on August 01, 2009, 11:33:23 PM
Fire was not mentioned to me by his classmate.   (I don't know how reply to a specific post)
sorry if it has been asked before but do you know what happened?


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on August 01, 2009, 11:46:02 PM
In my view, searching the yards, and not inside the houses is an incomplete search. Do most houses there in McCleary have basements? Until they are throughly searched, along with the crawlspaces underneath, and in the attic areas, they have not done a thorough search job.

 Bodies have been sealed in containers, wrapped in blankets and stuffed in trunks for years without neighbors being suspicious. Deep freezers are the same. Bodies have been buried in unfinished basements. Think John Wayne Gacy. There were even police inside his home and didn't realize there were multiple bodies buried down there. But I believe a cadaver dog would have picked up on it.

Are the neighbors that live on the streets where Lindsay was know to be been unwilling for the LE to search their homes, or have the LE made no efforts to do so? 


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: mamacrazy30 on August 01, 2009, 11:50:00 PM
In my view, searching the yards, and not inside the houses is an incomplete search. Do most houses there in McCleary have basements? Until they are throughly searched, along with the crawlspaces underneath, and in the attic areas, they have not done a thorough search job.

 Bodies have been sealed in containers, wrapped in blankets and stuffed in trunks for years without neighbors being suspicious. Deep freezers are the same. Bodies have been buried in unfinished basements. Think John Wayne Gacy. There were even police inside his home and didn't realize there were multiple bodies buried down there. But I believe a cadaver dog would have picked up on it.

Are the neighbors that live on the streets where Lindsay was know to be been unwilling for the LE to search their homes, or have the LE made no efforts to do so? 
miss Mae i'm afraid its the latter.... ::MonkeyNoNo::


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: pink angel on August 02, 2009, 12:53:57 AM
Janet,
This is the first time I have posted, don't know if I am doing it right.
 But regarding Josh, he had a problem at school this spring, in which the classroom was evacuated, this is public knowledge, told to me by a reliable classmate.  Maybe this had something to do with his juvi thing, I don't know. If the court appearance was due to his mistreating his sister,  I wouldn't think he would be trusted to be the one that was supposed to walk her home. 
Wanna bet he pulled the fire alarm?
My brother did that in grade school and got arrested for it. They don't take that likely.

My brother had to go to court and got a year of court supervision and had to attend some type of class. I forget.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Sister on August 02, 2009, 01:06:50 AM
Pink, I remember that happening at my school too!  The guys got into some big trouble, followed by an assembly where the fire marshall spoke.
But I suppose there are some who live in more pefect worlds, have more perfect children, more perfect grandchildren, more perfect neighbors, etc.  But the imperfect world in which I live is where I am planted and therefore where I bloom.
Justice of Lindsey!
P.S.  Good to see you.  Have been busy moving my sister's furniture, etc.  Am exhausted so just lurking for a while.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: pink angel on August 02, 2009, 01:08:01 AM
Janet,
This is the first time I have posted, don't know if I am doing it right.
 But regarding Josh, he had a problem at school this spring, in which the classroom was evacuated, this is public knowledge, told to me by a reliable classmate.  Maybe this had something to do with his juvi thing, I don't know. If the court appearance was due to his mistreating his sister,  I wouldn't think he would be trusted to be the one that was supposed to walk her home. 
Wanna bet he pulled the fire alarm?
My brother did that in grade school and got arrested for it. They don't take that likely.

My brother had to go to court and got a year of court supervision and had to attend some type of class. I forget.

I just called my mom and she said he was charged with a 3rd degree felony and also got a 500 dollar fine.

He would have been charged with a 2nd or 1st degree if anyone would have got hurt evacuating or a firefighter would have got hurt responding to the alarm.



Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: pink angel on August 02, 2009, 01:15:10 AM
Pink, I remember that happening at my school too!  The guys got into some big trouble, followed by an assembly where the fire marshall spoke.
But I suppose there are some who live in more pefect worlds, have more perfect children, more perfect grandchildren, more perfect neighbors, etc.  But the imperfect world in which I live is where I am planted and therefore where I bloom.
Justice of Lindsey!
P.S.  Good to see you.  Have been busy moving my sister's furniture, etc.  Am exhausted so just lurking for a while.


Good to see you too hon. I am exhausted myself, not moving even my butt though.  ::MonkeyHaHa::

I have been busy since with the little man missing from Idaho, Robert Manwill. Such a tragedy in the making that one.  ::MonkeyNoNo::


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: KarmaRoundUp on August 02, 2009, 09:59:30 AM
Janet,
This is the first time I have posted, don't know if I am doing it right.
 But regarding Josh, he had a problem at school this spring, in which the classroom was evacuated, this is public knowledge, told to me by a reliable classmate.  Maybe this had something to do with his juvi thing, I don't know. If the court appearance was due to his mistreating his sister,  I wouldn't think he would be trusted to be the one that was supposed to walk her home. 
Wanna bet he pulled the fire alarm?
My brother did that in grade school and got arrested for it. They don't take that likely.

My brother had to go to court and got a year of court supervision and had to attend some type of class. I forget.
But then wouldn't the whole school be evacuated instead of just one class room?


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: no rose colored glasses on August 02, 2009, 10:30:28 AM
Janet,
This is the first time I have posted, don't know if I am doing it right.
 But regarding Josh, he had a problem at school this spring, in which the classroom was evacuated, this is public knowledge, told to me by a reliable classmate.  Maybe this had something to do with his juvi thing, I don't know. If the court appearance was due to his mistreating his sister,  I wouldn't think he would be trusted to be the one that was supposed to walk her home. 
Wanna bet he pulled the fire alarm?
My brother did that in grade school and got arrested for it. They don't take that likely.

My brother had to go to court and got a year of court supervision and had to attend some type of class. I forget.
But then wouldn't the whole school be evacuated instead of just one class room?
That's true, and I didn't realize the punishment for pulling a fire alarm at school would be that strict.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Tamikosmom on August 02, 2009, 12:22:34 PM
If the fire alarm was pulled … the bell would have started ringing and … the entire school would have been evacuated.

An elementary student setting off a fire alarm would result in a reprimand by school officials and fire authorities but … somehow I do not believe there would legal consequences UNLESS it had happened before.

I contend the class evacuation incident was unrelated to the felony charges that resulted in a guilty plea by Josh.

Think about.  KaraK was uninformed regarding aspects encompassing Josh and the Juvenile Detention System.  Could it be that she was also unaware of the underlying dynamic encompassing the 911 call and the ride home from mlachester’s residence in a police car?

I cannot get past mlacheste claims.  If  I were to obstruct justice by fabricating a story encompassing an incident … I would not involve the small police force of McCleary in that fabrication.  Logic would dictate that my words could be easily disputed.

When all is said and done … this young man certainly had issues that reached beyond the average 12 year old.  This makes me both sad and suspicious.

Monkeys ... felony charges again a 12 year old boy is serious stuff.  How many 12 year olds do you know personally who have been charged with a felony.  I am 62 years of age and ... I do not know one.

Janet

+++++


KaraK
Re: Lindsey Baum, 10y missing from McCleary, WA 6/26/09
« Reply #1240 on: July 05, 2009, 10:56:04 PM »


I don't know if he ever actually went to juvie.  All I know for sure is he gets picked on a lot (my kids have participated verbally and been in trouble for this as well) by kids trying to get a reaction - spitting, name calling etc. - To my knowledge that is where most of his trouble has been with little fights amongst kids and complaints from them or their parents.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=5541.msg865744#msg865744


mlachester 1 day ago wrote:

... Its no big secret she had came to my house to call 911 when her brother had done things to her.

http://www.king5.com/topstories/stories/NW_063009WAB-Mccleary-girl-search-LJ.1fc0b759.html?ocp=2#slcgm_comments_anchor


mlachester 2 hours ago wrote:

I am close to her and I know a lot more than the media or law enforcement are saying right now. … Sorry if you don't like the truth but I have never been one to keep the truth in and she should of been taken the first time she called 911 from my house asking for help instead of put in a police car and taken back to her abuser!"

http://www.king5.com/topstories/stor...omments_anchor


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: pink angel on August 02, 2009, 12:52:53 PM
If the fire alarm was pulled … the bell would have started ringing and … the entire school would have been evacuated.

An elementary student setting off a fire alarm would result in a reprimand by school officials and fire authorities but … somehow I do not believe there would legal consequences UNLESS it had happened before.

I contend the class evacuation incident was unrelated to the felony charges that resulted in a guilty plea by Josh.

Think about.  KaraK was uninformed regarding aspects encompassing Josh and the Juvenile Detention System.  Could it be that she was also unaware of the underlying dynamic encompassing the 911 call and the ride home from mlachester’s residence in a police car?

I cannot get past mlacheste claims.  If  I were to obstruct justice by fabricating a story encompassing an incident … I would not involve the small police force of McCleary in that fabrication.  Logic would dictate that my words could be easily disputed.

When all is said and done … this young man certainly had issues that reached beyond the average 12 year old.  This makes me both sad and suspicious.

Monkeys ... felony charges again a 12 year old boy is serious stuff.  How many 12 year olds do you know personally who have been charged with a felony.  I am 62 years of age and ... I do not know one.

Janet

+++++


KaraK
Re: Lindsey Baum, 10y missing from McCleary, WA 6/26/09
« Reply #1240 on: July 05, 2009, 10:56:04 PM »


I don't know if he ever actually went to juvie.  All I know for sure is he gets picked on a lot (my kids have participated verbally and been in trouble for this as well) by kids trying to get a reaction - spitting, name calling etc. - To my knowledge that is where most of his trouble has been with little fights amongst kids and complaints from them or their parents.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=5541.msg865744#msg865744


mlachester 1 day ago wrote:

... Its no big secret she had came to my house to call 911 when her brother had done things to her.

http://www.king5.com/topstories/stories/NW_063009WAB-Mccleary-girl-search-LJ.1fc0b759.html?ocp=2#slcgm_comments_anchor


mlachester 2 hours ago wrote:

I am close to her and I know a lot more than the media or law enforcement are saying right now. … Sorry if you don't like the truth but I have never been one to keep the truth in and she should of been taken the first time she called 911 from my house asking for help instead of put in a police car and taken back to her abuser!"

http://www.king5.com/topstories/stor...omments_anchor


So you are saying I am lying? Okay.
I know my brother was charged with a 3rd degree felony. My brother had never been in any trouble before.



Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: KarmaRoundUp on August 02, 2009, 01:03:26 PM
"I Will Find My Daughter"





Power lines hang low over the narrow, gravel-lined stretch of asphalt in McCleary called Maple Street.

Cars roll past rows of small houses. Sprinklers spin in the front yards. Shrubs and street lights stand on either side of the road.

From the front step of her nearby home, Melissa Baum can almost see its intersection with Fifth Street where her 11-year-old daughter took her last known steps into oblivion.

“I feel like she’s right under my nose and I can’t find her,” she said.

Baum sat on her front step earlier this week, staring eastward toward Maple Street with the faint plinking of wind chimes behind her. She lit a cigarette.

“It’s really frustrating,” she said.

The family dog, Cadence, curled up on the concrete at her feet. Signs of support hung in the windows. Empty Diet Coke cans and fountain drinks sat stacked beside her chair after hours of waiting and watching the end of the road.

“It was all a fluke that whole night,” Baum explained quietly. “It’s like everything fell into place. The one time she left the house without her cell phone. The one time she started walking home alone.”
more at link

http://**/articles/2009/08/02/local_news/doc4a75285b085b5140001671.txt




Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Sister on August 02, 2009, 01:14:54 PM
Pink, of course you are not lying.  There are just some that know everything about everything.  I am trying to learn to just ignore them and their ignorance.  Course, as has been noted on here numerous times, there are some that want to make the number of their posts go up, so they quote and quote old stuff and bump and bump stuff.  Let it go my friend.  It aint' worth it.  The Mods are very patient, but eventually they always take care of it, which is why I like this board so much.  Blessings.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: no rose colored glasses on August 02, 2009, 01:21:07 PM
Pink, I don't think you are lying at all, I'm just surprised at such a punishment for doing that, things sure have changed since I was young, you would have gotten into trouble, but nothing like that.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on August 02, 2009, 01:28:59 PM
"I Will Find My Daughter"





Power lines hang low over the narrow, gravel-lined stretch of asphalt in McCleary called Maple Street.

Cars roll past rows of small houses. Sprinklers spin in the front yards. Shrubs and street lights stand on either side of the road.

From the front step of her nearby home, Melissa Baum can almost see its intersection with Fifth Street where her 11-year-old daughter took her last known steps into oblivion.

“I feel like she’s right under my nose and I can’t find her,” she said.

Baum sat on her front step earlier this week, staring eastward toward Maple Street with the faint plinking of wind chimes behind her. She lit a cigarette.

“It’s really frustrating,” she said.

The family dog, Cadence, curled up on the concrete at her feet. Signs of support hung in the windows. Empty Diet Coke cans and fountain drinks sat stacked beside her chair after hours of waiting and watching the end of the road.

“It was all a fluke that whole night,” Baum explained quietly. “It’s like everything fell into place. The one time she left the house without her cell phone. The one time she started walking home alone.”
more at link

http://**/articles/2009/08/02/local_news/doc4a75285b085b5140001671.txt



MB had thought her daughter was far away, now she thinks lindsey is right there under her nose.  Also now it is saying her last steps were near 5th street.  What happened to the other sighting up close to 3rd? 

so something changed?  What do they know NOW that we don't. 

I always felt lindsey did not get to 5th and turned around back to 6th. 

Is this news report in error, or has the info changed now and MB has been told something new that has not come out in public. 

of course we can really believe news reports 100%, but it seems, if this is true, MB does not think the same things as she did at first, and lindsey disappeared around 5th and did not get any farther up maple.  ???


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: no rose colored glasses on August 02, 2009, 01:32:17 PM
DD, I have no idea  ::MonkeyConfused::  Unless LE does have something and they told her mother, otherwise why else would you change your thoughts? This is reminding me more and more of Satsuma Florida and Haleigh's case, I just don't know what to believe or what not to believe.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on August 02, 2009, 01:34:47 PM
just to let you know, I know a LOT Of kids 12 (and under) who have been charged with felonies.  They commit crimes all the time.  And I knew of some who did this back when I was that age also.  The cali napa state hospital was full of them, and there were some in CYA.  Junvenile had kids that young when I was that age, and CYA had a few that young as well. 

KIDS commit felonies all the time.  More and more of them are committing felonies at younger ages now, but kids did it back then too.  I saw it all the time. 


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: no rose colored glasses on August 02, 2009, 01:45:02 PM
just to let you know, I know a LOT Of kids 12 (and under) who have been charged with felonies.  They commit crimes all the time.  And I knew of some who did this back when I was that age also.  The cali napa state hospital was full of them, and there were some in CYA.  Junvenile had kids that young when I was that age, and CYA had a few that young as well. 

KIDS commit felonies all the time.  More and more of them are committing felonies at younger ages now, but kids did it back then too.  I saw it all the time. 
I have no doubt about that, I never knew of any kids charged with felonies when I was growing up at all. I will say that growing up where I did in the Midwest, we sure were sheltered, when I left home at 18 and went to Long Beach CA, I swear that I was on a different planet. I grew up in Catholic schools and if someone would have pulled a fire alarm, yes, there would have been punishment, but I think it would have been between the school and parents.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Rob on August 02, 2009, 02:25:52 PM
Well, where to start?

Most of you monks and monkettes that know me from the beginning here know I was quite the hell raiser when I was a kid. I never denied that. I threw snowballs at cop cars, lit firecrackers in places I certainly shouldn't have, threw lemon-heads at mass transit buses...  and did a host of other stuff that wasn't considered the best of ideas. In the group of troublemakers I grew up with, one went on to become a high-school bathroom bomber and caused hundreds of thousands of dollars in damage, one when on a killing spree where 8 people died, 7 initially and one years later from his injuries. The fire alarm in our junior and senior highschool was pulled at least once a week and I went to the most prestigious school district in my state. Not every hell raiser goes on to a life of crime, but it's not a good start.

As for Josh, he's just a kid. Surely not having his dad around has certainly hurt his overall chances and not made life easier. His dad seems like a nice guy and is in the military. I'm not sure why anyone thinks he could be involved in anything nefarious at this late date. He has been checked and rechecked and tripled checked. I'm pretty sure he does the normal trouble making stuff all other - or - most other 12 years olds do. They are kids and they often don't think through their actions. If he pulled a fire alarm, and I don't know if he did or didn't, but how does an incident like that possibly escalate to disappearing his sister so well that in four weeks he hasn't cracked and no one has found Lindsey. He's a 12 year old.

I'm starting to think that some of the obsessions placed on Josh and Watne are completely unfounded and I'm trying to figure out what posters here know that the police don't? Please don't take my words as personal criticism, because they are not.  I'm honestly asking, like Jess and DD did... someone show me how he is involved and I will re-evaluate my thoughts on the case.

When someone says that - she has long fingernails and her brother can vouch for that (paraphrased) - I think that is simply a statement that he and his sister have had disagreements. I know my sister and I certainly had many many over the years - brothers and sisters often do. It's the nature of being a brother and a sister. I see nothing in that statement that allows me to draw any conclusions that Lindsey scratched Josh and that's the EVIDENCE that we all need to start an indictment.

A 12 year old would crack and cry that he has harmed his sister. In fact, I'm certain that he would. Maybe he does have some developmental issues. I feel sorry for him and he needs to get some help before he has life long problems. Childish mischief is just that - childish. It doesn't allow me to conclude that he is the next Charles Manson based on just a possible fire alarm.

His mother seems to care about him and Lindsey very much and she's just a mom trying to make her way in life with the odds stacked against her. If you didn't think they were stacked against her before, well they sure are now. Josh's mom is doing the best she can. Let's remember that she is a person with feelings too, and her kids were happy and healthy before this horrible tragic event hit them all.

These people deserve sympathy, not ridicule from forum posters.

Off my soap box...



Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on August 02, 2009, 02:29:07 PM
just to let you know, I know a LOT Of kids 12 (and under) who have been charged with felonies.  They commit crimes all the time.  And I knew of some who did this back when I was that age also.  The cali napa state hospital was full of them, and there were some in CYA.  Junvenile had kids that young when I was that age, and CYA had a few that young as well. 

KIDS commit felonies all the time.  More and more of them are committing felonies at younger ages now, but kids did it back then too.  I saw it all the time. 
I have no doubt about that, I never knew of any kids charged with felonies when I was growing up at all. I will say that growing up where I did in the Midwest, we sure were sheltered, when I left home at 18 and went to Long Beach CA, I swear that I was on a different planet. I grew up in Catholic schools and if someone would have pulled a fire alarm, yes, there would have been punishment, but I think it would have been between the school and parents.

well I pulled the fire alarm a couple of time ugh , yes, I was a wild kid.  I did not get caught. I was in like 2nd grade ugh.  in jr high the fire alarm went off at least once a week, sometimes more.  people get suspended for a few days is all.  We had a lot of fights and bad ones too, broken noses, legs, people beat up pretty bad.  Still people did not get in too much trouble. It was an every day occurence to have fights at school.  If you got in a fight with a teacher or the principal you got arrested and charged with assault. there were some of those too.  There were gang fighting almost every day, riots, etc.  And I did not even live in the bad section of town.  I don't really know what the problem was, but there certainly was one.  But all this aside, I don't know anyone who got mad and killed their sister.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on August 02, 2009, 02:35:29 PM
hehe rob, just read your post, did we come from the same place hahahah

and mind you I grew up when fighting in a gang was with knives and chains; long before gangs were really all over.  It was a rarity to be in one.  but there were some young kids in them even then, but still no one killed their family members.  Josh is mild to the kids I knew. 


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: KarmaRoundUp on August 02, 2009, 02:49:48 PM
"I Will Find My Daughter"





Power lines hang low over the narrow, gravel-lined stretch of asphalt in McCleary called Maple Street.

Cars roll past rows of small houses. Sprinklers spin in the front yards. Shrubs and street lights stand on either side of the road.

From the front step of her nearby home, Melissa Baum can almost see its intersection with Fifth Street where her 11-year-old daughter took her last known steps into oblivion.

“I feel like she’s right under my nose and I can’t find her,” she said.

Baum sat on her front step earlier this week, staring eastward toward Maple Street with the faint plinking of wind chimes behind her. She lit a cigarette.

“It’s really frustrating,” she said.

The family dog, Cadence, curled up on the concrete at her feet. Signs of support hung in the windows. Empty Diet Coke cans and fountain drinks sat stacked beside her chair after hours of waiting and watching the end of the road.

“It was all a fluke that whole night,” Baum explained quietly. “It’s like everything fell into place. The one time she left the house without her cell phone. The one time she started walking home alone.”
more at link

http://**/articles/2009/08/02/local_news/doc4a75285b085b5140001671.txt



MB had thought her daughter was far away, now she thinks lindsey is right there under her nose.  Also now it is saying her last steps were near 5th street.  What happened to the other sighting up close to 3rd? 

so something changed?  What do they know NOW that we don't. 

I always felt lindsey did not get to 5th and turned around back to 6th. 

Is this news report in error, or has the info changed now and MB has been told something new that has not come out in public. 

of course we can really believe news reports 100%, but it seems, if this is true, MB does not think the same things as she did at first, and lindsey disappeared around 5th and did not get any farther up maple.  ???
DD,I truly don't know but I feel so heartbroken for Melissa.....she is probably devasted and will be until she gets Lindsey back or they find out what happened to her.No one on this beautiful earth just disappears like that.She must be somewhere,dead or alive.
Where she was last seen was probably just mixed up and exaggerated by the reporter from The Daily World.
Just like media and LE kept saying it was only a 4 block walk home and we could look at all of the maps and see for ourselves it is at least 6 blocks long.
I dunno,I am so dispirited today.   ::MonkeyWaa::


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: no rose colored glasses on August 02, 2009, 02:50:56 PM
hehe rob, just read your post, did we come from the same place hahahah

and mind you I grew up when fighting in a gang was with knives and chains; long before gangs were really all over.  It was a rarity to be in one.  but there were some young kids in them even then, but still no one killed their family members.  Josh is mild to the kids I knew. 
I have a cousin that did some of the things Rob mentioned, maybe you are my cousin  ::MonkeyDevil::  I think maybe the kids I went to school with were too afraid of the nuns to do anything like that, seriously I know I was  ::MonkeyEek:: I must have had a really tame childhood, because nobody ever pulled a fire alarm or anything like that, but I can see how tempting that might be for some kids, wanting to know what would all happen if you pull the alarm.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Rob on August 02, 2009, 02:56:15 PM
hehe rob, just read your post, did we come from the same place hahahah

and mind you I grew up when fighting in a gang was with knives and chains; long before gangs were really all over.  It was a rarity to be in one.  but there were some young kids in them even then, but still no one killed their family members.  Josh is mild to the kids I knew. 

you know DD, there is a big difference between a kid like Josh and the van der Sloot spawns. Josh is just a little bot without a dad and trying to make some friend and maybe he just doesn't fit in with the in crowds and he has things he likes to do. He grew up somewhere else and moved somewhere new. It takes time to find some new friends. We have all been there. Parents get transferred and move and the kids go too.

the van der Sloot kids have a litany of pre-determined fate enabling hard years ahead. And here you have parents that just don't give a darn. Every kid in that family has had brushes with the law and one has disappear a tourist. And the parent keep on keepin-on. No change in their parenting and the results are the same.

With Josh and Lindsey, at least Melissa cares and tries her best to raise her kids. And by the way, all kids will be walking alone at some point. It's unfair to blame anything like walking alone on her. She lives in a neighbor full of kids and the kids all go to each other's homes. It's unrealistic to think that a child will stay home and not go to a friends house to go swimming because the mother or father is not there to walk them back and forth. Parent work to support their kids - they are not always around to hold their hands and cross the street with them.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: KarmaRoundUp on August 02, 2009, 02:59:15 PM
I also want to state that we are all here just giving opinions and WE are not charging or convicting anyone with anything.I'm open minded and believe all opinions should be welcomed,even if it's about Wayne Watne or Josh(who has a felony record).
I don't think anyone here should have the right to put down others here because of their opinions.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on August 02, 2009, 03:27:17 PM
I also want to state that we are all here just giving opinions and WE are not charging or convicting anyone with anything.I'm open minded and believe all opinions should be welcomed,even if it's about Wayne Watne or Josh(who has a felony record).
I don't think anyone here should have the right to put down others here because of their opinions.

I like to look at every possible theory.  I like to find the reasons why and why not.  I like to try to base what "I" think on something I can show some proof of, but I always have my opinions of "just because I think so", as well. 

I think we all use a lot of our own personal experiences and what "we know" throughout our "own life".  Because we come from all walks of life, we get many different opinions based upon our "own experiences".  What seems extreme to one person might not even register with another.  I can get pretty biased on what I think because of this.  So this is why I try to look at everyone elses theories as well, because the person we are looking for might be more like someone else than they are like me.  So I usually keep my true opinions to myself LOL  And when I don't, you can see why LOL 

but I like to believe I know what criminals think LOL, and this really does bias me.  I try not to let that hinder my research though, because someone else might be right, and I might be very wrong. 

But I still ask a lot of questions so I can try to understand why people think what they do.  It is not even that I am debating, I rarely am; I'm just trying to understand why someone else might think something that I just can't see how it is possible.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Tamikosmom on August 02, 2009, 03:37:16 PM
If the fire alarm was pulled … the bell would have started ringing and … the entire school would have been evacuated.

An elementary student setting off a fire alarm would result in a reprimand by school officials and fire authorities but … somehow I do not believe there would legal consequences UNLESS it had happened before.

I contend the class evacuation incident was unrelated to the felony charges that resulted in a guilty plea by Josh.

Think about.  KaraK was uninformed regarding aspects encompassing Josh and the Juvenile Detention System.  Could it be that she was also unaware of the underlying dynamic encompassing the 911 call and the ride home from mlachester’s residence in a police car?

I cannot get past mlacheste claims.  If  I were to obstruct justice by fabricating a story encompassing an incident … I would not involve the small police force of McCleary in that fabrication.  Logic would dictate that my words could be easily disputed.

When all is said and done … this young man certainly had issues that reached beyond the average 12 year old.  This makes me both sad and suspicious.

Monkeys ... felony charges again a 12 year old boy is serious stuff.  How many 12 year olds do you know personally who have been charged with a felony.  I am 62 years of age and ... I do not know one.

Janet

+++++


KaraK
Re: Lindsey Baum, 10y missing from McCleary, WA 6/26/09
« Reply #1240 on: July 05, 2009, 10:56:04 PM »


I don't know if he ever actually went to juvie.  All I know for sure is he gets picked on a lot (my kids have participated verbally and been in trouble for this as well) by kids trying to get a reaction - spitting, name calling etc. - To my knowledge that is where most of his trouble has been with little fights amongst kids and complaints from them or their parents.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=5541.msg865744#msg865744


mlachester 1 day ago wrote:

... Its no big secret she had came to my house to call 911 when her brother had done things to her.

http://www.king5.com/topstories/stories/NW_063009WAB-Mccleary-girl-search-LJ.1fc0b759.html?ocp=2#slcgm_comments_anchor


mlachester 2 hours ago wrote:

I am close to her and I know a lot more than the media or law enforcement are saying right now. … Sorry if you don't like the truth but I have never been one to keep the truth in and she should of been taken the first time she called 911 from my house asking for help instead of put in a police car and taken back to her abuser!"

http://www.king5.com/topstories/stor...omments_anchor


So you are saying I am lying? Okay.
I know my brother was charged with a 3rd degree felony. My brother had never been in any trouble before.



Pink Angel

I think in your heart you comprehend what I am attempting to convey.

I am just stating that I have not known anybody 12 years of age and under who has been charged with a felony.

Janet


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: KarmaRoundUp on August 02, 2009, 03:41:21 PM
I agree with your last post DD.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: pink angel on August 02, 2009, 03:52:12 PM
Rob,

So nice to see you! :)

I agree with posts 100 percent. Well said.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Tracygirl on August 02, 2009, 03:57:37 PM
Good posts Rob and DD. Are there any leading suspects? 


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: JessStar on August 02, 2009, 03:58:08 PM
Rob, excellent post.   You hit the nail on head with Josh. 

As an aside, I caught this from the article from The Daily World:

Baum said she and her 12-year-old son, Josh, will sit down at night to watch a movie and feel overwhelmed by Lindsey’s absence.

During the first two weeks, she almost never left home for fear she would miss a phone call. She now tries to stay busy throughout the day by posting fliers, often replacing old black-and-white versions with color posters. She talks to investigators and tries to make sure Josh has things to keep his mind occupied.

“He’s having a difficult time,” Baum said. “He’s angry. He misses his sister a lot. He’s wanting to go out and find whoever has her."

Now, I suppose we can surmise that MB is covering for him.  But how unlikely is that. . .  JMO


http://**/articles/2009/08/02/local_news/doc4a75285b085b5140001671.txt


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Tamikosmom on August 02, 2009, 03:59:45 PM
Are the following contradictary quotes words of a distraught mother who does not have a clue or ... do those words imply some kind of knowledge in regards to her precious daughter?

Janet

+++++++


MELISSA BAUM - THEN

FOX News – July 1, 2009-08-02


Melissa Baum said she thinks her little girl Lindsey, who vanished Friday night, was snatched and is no longer in their hometown.

"I don’t think she’s in McCleary. I don’t," Baum told The Daily World of Aberdeen, Wash. "Why would they keep her in McCleary? Whoever took her went on the freeway. There are three ways to get out of McCleary and all three ways there are freeways within five or 10 minutes."

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,5296...latestnews


MELISSA BAUM - NOW

Daily World – August 2, 2009-08-02


From the front step of her nearby home, Melissa Baum can almost see its intersection with Fifth Street where her 11-year-old daughter took her last known steps into oblivion.

“I feel like she’s right under my nose and I can’t find her,” she said.

http://**/articles/2009/08/02/local_news/doc4a75285b085b5140001671.txt


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on August 02, 2009, 04:23:56 PM
Good posts Rob and DD. Are there any leading suspects? 

I tracygirl, glad to see you.  There are some threads we started for different people.  Seems as always, there are so many possibles and everyone has different opinions who is the most suspect. 

As for the police, I truly believe they THINK something, but they are not saying.  I have changed my mind a few times about what I thought since the beginning, only because I dig up more stuff and someone else starts not looking so suspicious and some other person pops on the scene and I find something which makes me think they are more suspicious. 

there are so many sex offenders in the area, of course they are always suspect.  And you know how the family and close friends always manage to get on the radar at the beginning of every case.  Then there were some local Satanists who got on my radar.  Then the church person hanging out with Josh got on people's radar.  Of course there comes a time you suspect the cops when they can't find anyone to arrest LOL 

so, yes there are a lot of people who are suspect.  I've zero'd in on a few of my own, as has everyone on the board, but can we all narrow it down and say wow at someone.. not yet.  LOL 

you might as well read the threads and jump in here with your own opinion.  Maybe you will see something we missed.  I hope so LOL


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on August 02, 2009, 04:28:44 PM
Are the following contradictary quotes words of a distraught mother who does not have a clue or ... do those words imply some kind of knowledge in regards to her precious daughter?

Janet

+++++++


MELISSA BAUM - THEN

FOX News – July 1, 2009-08-02


Melissa Baum said she thinks her little girl Lindsey, who vanished Friday night, was snatched and is no longer in their hometown.

"I don’t think she’s in McCleary. I don’t," Baum told The Daily World of Aberdeen, Wash. "Why would they keep her in McCleary? Whoever took her went on the freeway. There are three ways to get out of McCleary and all three ways there are freeways within five or 10 minutes."

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,5296...latestnews


MELISSA BAUM - NOW

Daily World – August 2, 2009-08-02


From the front step of her nearby home, Melissa Baum can almost see its intersection with Fifth Street where her 11-year-old daughter took her last known steps into oblivion.

“I feel like she’s right under my nose and I can’t find her,” she said.

http://**/articles/2009/08/02/local_news/doc4a75285b085b5140001671.txt


I believe Melissa Baum would be much like the rest of us, we start out with one thought at the beginning and as we find out more that is going on, we can change out mind about what we initially thought.  She has to know a lot more now than she did in the beginning.  I know a lot more now and I am not even living there, nor do I have the police telling me things they are probably telling her.  So my guess is, the more she hears the more she might change her mind. 


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on August 02, 2009, 04:37:48 PM
okay I found out a couple of things. 

one -
The man seen walking into the PD with Melissa Baum, is her younger brother. He's been "cleared" and came to escort her through the waves of media that was there at that time. 



Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Rob on August 02, 2009, 04:37:53 PM
Thanks Traceygirl, Jess and Pink Angel.

++++

As far as I know there are no suspects. I have not seen anything that leads anyone where. Maybe I'm wrong and missed something, but there is nothing in the public domain that leads me to think they (the police) have a theory (other than abducted) or POI under the radar.

Here would be a list of possibilities...just some thoughts.

1. Sex offender, with multiple crimes under his belt - never been caught.
2. Repeat sex offender - previously incarcerated. Registered SO.
3. Sex offender committing his first crime. And unknown to police.
4. Unknown perp, and crime not committed for sexual assault.
5. Completely unknown perp such as Melissa Huckaby.

Just some ideas ...


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on August 02, 2009, 04:39:43 PM
I also just got this info

 Josh - Lindsey's brother has Aspergers and ADHD and he has NEVER been to juvie over anything related to his sister or school at all


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: pink angel on August 02, 2009, 04:54:36 PM
I also just got this info

 Josh - Lindsey's brother has Aspergers and ADHD and he has NEVER been to juvie over anything related to his sister or school at all

Exactly. I don't doubt he was in trouble but I think "juvie" was talked about or threatened by someone as possible punishment and Lindsey in her 10 year old mind thought it was a real possibility at the next days court date or she wished it would happen.



Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Tamikosmom on August 02, 2009, 04:55:04 PM
Are the following contradictary quotes words of a distraught mother who does not have a clue or ... do those words imply some kind of knowledge in regards to her precious daughter?

Janet

+++++++


MELISSA BAUM - THEN

FOX News – July 1, 2009-08-02


Melissa Baum said she thinks her little girl Lindsey, who vanished Friday night, was snatched and is no longer in their hometown.

"I don’t think she’s in McCleary. I don’t," Baum told The Daily World of Aberdeen, Wash. "Why would they keep her in McCleary? Whoever took her went on the freeway. There are three ways to get out of McCleary and all three ways there are freeways within five or 10 minutes."

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,5296...latestnews


MELISSA BAUM - NOW

Daily World – August 2, 2009-08-02


From the front step of her nearby home, Melissa Baum can almost see its intersection with Fifth Street where her 11-year-old daughter took her last known steps into oblivion.

“I feel like she’s right under my nose and I can’t find her,” she said.

http://**/articles/2009/08/02/local_news/doc4a75285b085b5140001671.txt


I believe Melissa Baum would be much like the rest of us, we start out with one thought at the beginning and as we find out more that is going on, we can change out mind about what we initially thought.  She has to know a lot more now than she did in the beginning.  I know a lot more now and I am not even living there, nor do I have the police telling me things they are probably telling her.  So my guess is, the more she hears the more she might change her mind. 

DD

What do think Melissa Baum could have learned since July 1, 2009 that would change her thoughts concerning the whereabouts of her daughte?  To go from "out of the area" to "right under my nose" is quite a flip flop.

At this point in time ... I will give Melissa the benefit of my doubts that in her disperation ... she does not know what to think.

Janet



Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Tamikosmom on August 02, 2009, 04:59:25 PM
I also just got this info

 Josh - Lindsey's brother has Aspergers and ADHD and he has NEVER been to juvie over anything related to his sister or school at all

dd

Are you say that you know for sure that John Baum never pleaded guilty to a felony in Juvenile Court or ... are you implying the charges were unrelated to Lindsey or school.

Janet


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Tamikosmom on August 02, 2009, 05:00:17 PM
Above post.

John s/b Josh

Thanks

Janet


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Tracygirl on August 02, 2009, 05:01:46 PM
I also just got this info

 Josh - Lindsey's brother has Aspergers and ADHD and he has NEVER been to juvie over anything related to his sister or school at all

Yep, knew it! If you live with a person with autism, you can call it at least 2000 miles away over a computer.



Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Tracygirl on August 02, 2009, 05:07:41 PM
Has Kara's brother ever been looked at? Can't recall his name right now, he was on my radar in the beginning because of the myspace connection. It seemed to me Lindsey was displaying some of the introspective thoughts as he was. Also, the ex sister in law, michelle. Anything on them?


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Tamikosmom on August 02, 2009, 05:07:50 PM
I also just got this info

 Josh - Lindsey's brother has Aspergers and ADHD and he has NEVER been to juvie over anything related to his sister or school at all

Exactly. I don't doubt he was in trouble but I think "juvie" was talked about or threatened by someone as possible punishment and Lindsey in her 10 year old mind thought it was a real possibility at the next days court date or she wished it would happen.



Pink Angel

Think about it.  What were the underlying dynamics in the sibling relationship that would cause Lindsey to articulate happiness at the prospect of her brother being removed from the home?  In my world ... this mindset goes way beyond sibling rivalry.

Janet

+++++++


LINDSEY BAUM - IN HER OWN WORDS

Lindsey Baum:  Facebook Entry

TWILIGHT FREAK is happy that her brother is going to juvi tomorrow.Mood: happ at 14:10 17 Jun view more

Lindsey Baum is happy that her brother is going to juvie tomorrow.
Mood: Happ at 14:10 17 June

http://www.myspace.com/477760045






Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on August 02, 2009, 05:12:14 PM
Are the following contradictary quotes words of a distraught mother who does not have a clue or ... do those words imply some kind of knowledge in regards to her precious daughter?

Janet

+++++++


MELISSA BAUM - THEN

FOX News – July 1, 2009-08-02


Melissa Baum said she thinks her little girl Lindsey, who vanished Friday night, was snatched and is no longer in their hometown.

"I don’t think she’s in McCleary. I don’t," Baum told The Daily World of Aberdeen, Wash. "Why would they keep her in McCleary? Whoever took her went on the freeway. There are three ways to get out of McCleary and all three ways there are freeways within five or 10 minutes."

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,5296...latestnews


MELISSA BAUM - NOW

Daily World – August 2, 2009-08-02


From the front step of her nearby home, Melissa Baum can almost see its intersection with Fifth Street where her 11-year-old daughter took her last known steps into oblivion.

“I feel like she’s right under my nose and I can’t find her,” she said.

http://**/articles/2009/08/02/local_news/doc4a75285b085b5140001671.txt


I believe Melissa Baum would be much like the rest of us, we start out with one thought at the beginning and as we find out more that is going on, we can change out mind about what we initially thought.  She has to know a lot more now than she did in the beginning.  I know a lot more now and I am not even living there, nor do I have the police telling me things they are probably telling her.  So my guess is, the more she hears the more she might change her mind. 

DD

What do think Melissa Baum could have learned since July 1, 2009 that would change her thoughts concerning the whereabouts of her daughte?  To go from "out of the area" to "right under my nose" is quite a flip flop.

At this point in time ... I will give Melissa the benefit of my doubts that in her disperation ... she does not know what to think.

Janet



I have no idea.  it's also possible "right under my nose" means something that she thinks to be where she is, as in right where she thinks or has thought about, rather than a physical location. 


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on August 02, 2009, 05:18:18 PM
I also just got this info

 Josh - Lindsey's brother has Aspergers and ADHD and he has NEVER been to juvie over anything related to his sister or school at all

dd

Are you say that you know for sure that John Baum never pleaded guilty to a felony in Juvenile Court or ... are you implying the charges were unrelated to Lindsey or school.

Janet


I am not implying anything. what I just said was word for word exactly what I was told.  To tell you the truth I don't have the time to really think about all this because personally I am onto something else that has nothing whatsoever to do with Josh.  But if I can post something I have been told to help others, then I post it. 

I personally am not going to sit here and research josh baum.  I have to work on something else right now that I personally feel is something I need to do to help with something about this case. It involves something totally different, so sorry, I just don't have the time to discuss Josh Baum.  I personally believe he had nothing whatsoever to do with lindsey's disappearance and I am looking at something which I believe might very well have something to do with her and so I have to concentrate on that right now. 



Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on August 02, 2009, 05:20:01 PM
PLEASE GO TO THE PRAYER REQUEST THREAD AND LEAVE A POST FOR NORTHERN ROSE.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=21.new#new


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: doubledecker on August 02, 2009, 05:27:17 PM
I am going to go out on a limb here.  I will say this then I don't have time for the josh baum theory. 

I have asked for the info jessstar needs to look up the public record for josh.  Someone was going to ask for that info yesterday.  that would settle all of this.  I have not heard back from that person yet, but as soon as I do I will know whether or not that person is willing to give us the info so jessstar can look for that record.  I explained that this would end all this back and forth yes there was a 911 report and no there was not.  At this point I am not choosing sides as to who to believe, although I feel if a person can settle this they should so we can get on to whatever it is we are doing.

if this person can prove this report exists, then we will know.  If they choose not to help prove this, then why should I believe anything they say?  we have a couple of people who obviously had some kind of disagreement along the line somewhere and one says this and the other says that.  I can't say oh I believe one because they say so.  if one of them can PROVE they are the one telling the truth and that the other is lying, they the one who has the means to PROVE it should.  So if they choose not to do so, I am not believing them. 

if they are so outspoken with the truth, then they should give up that info.  If not, then I guess they are really that concerned about the truth, rather all they want to do is bash lindsey's family.  that is my personal opinion.

actually to tell you the truth I need off of here for a bit because I am getting aggrivated at this whole josh baum thing. 

if anyone needs me, you can find me at my profile. 



Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Rob on August 02, 2009, 05:30:24 PM
I also just got this info

 Josh - Lindsey's brother has Aspergers and ADHD and he has NEVER been to juvie over anything related to his sister or school at all

dd

Are you say that you know for sure that John Baum never pleaded guilty to a felony in Juvenile Court or ... are you implying the charges were unrelated to Lindsey or school.

Janet


I am not implying anything. what I just said was word for word exactly what I was told.  To tell you the truth I don't have the time to really think about all this because personally I am onto something else that has nothing whatsoever to do with Josh.  But if I can post something I have been told to help others, then I post it. 

I personally am not going to sit here and research josh baum.  I have to work on something else right now that I personally feel is something I need to do to help with something about this case. It involves something totally different, so sorry, I just don't have the time to discuss Josh Baum.  I personally believe he had nothing whatsoever to do with lindsey's disappearance and I am looking at something which I believe might very well have something to do with her and so I have to concentrate on that right now. 



I'll be interested to see what it is, when you can share.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: pink angel on August 02, 2009, 05:35:15 PM
I also just got this info

 Josh - Lindsey's brother has Aspergers and ADHD and he has NEVER been to juvie over anything related to his sister or school at all

Exactly. I don't doubt he was in trouble but I think "juvie" was talked about or threatened by someone as possible punishment and Lindsey in her 10 year old mind thought it was a real possibility at the next days court date or she wished it would happen.



Pink Angel

Think about it.  What were the underlying dynamics in the sibling relationship that would cause Lindsey to articulate happiness at the prospect of her brother being removed from the home?  In my world ... this mindset goes way beyond sibling rivalry.

Janet

+++++++


LINDSEY BAUM - IN HER OWN WORDS

Lindsey Baum:  Facebook Entry

TWILIGHT FREAK is happy that her brother is going to juvi tomorrow.Mood: happ at 14:10 17 Jun view more

Lindsey Baum is happy that her brother is going to juvie tomorrow.
Mood: Happ at 14:10 17 June

http://www.myspace.com/477760045






Most of the time my older brother and me got along but we had our days when we were young where we fought like cats and dogs. It doesn't mean we didn't love each other, because we did and we would have done anything for each other.


When we fought though...my poor parents were referees in our ongoing quest for supremacy over each other. I loved pushing his buttons and he loved pushing mine.

I remember tattling on him all the time just to try and get him in trouble. He would do the same to me. Me being the girl and being smaller, he got in trouble way more than I did. I used to relish him getting in trouble.

I used to write in my diary about how happy I was that John got grounded today because of such and such. I wish he would just run away from home. Often, I wasn't so tame in what I write. I didn't really want anything bad to happen to him deep down but I was 10. Kids say and do mean things to each other.

I see Lindsey's myspace words being no more than writing in a diary. She could have had a fight or a disagreement that day with her brother, was thinking of the court case that was happening that next day and wrote in her diary "I am happy that my brother is going to juvie tomorrow."



That's my opinion.



Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Lovinlife on August 02, 2009, 05:41:43 PM
I'm going to ask a stupid question, because I'm confused and you all probably know and can answer in a flash. 

Re: Lindsey's last confirmed sighting

Is the last confirmed sighting of Lindsey on Maple & Fifth Street?

TIA, Lovinlife


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: KarmaRoundUp on August 02, 2009, 05:42:54 PM
okay I found out a couple of things. 

one -
The man seen walking into the PD with Melissa Baum, is her younger brother. He's been "cleared" and came to escort her through the waves of media that was there at that time. 


Thanks DD
I just wondered who he was,wasn't persecuting anyone.:)


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Tamikosmom on August 02, 2009, 05:59:26 PM
Thank you pink angel.

I stand by my position.

In the course of the investigation ... in the process of elimination ...

1.  I believe that all resident from 15th on Maple to the Baum residence should be considered persons of interest and questioned as well as the respective properties throughly searched.

2.  Considering the heated argument between Josh and Lindsey that dictated intervention  combined with other revealed dynamics encompassing the sibling relationship ... I believe Josh should be considered a person of interest.   

3.  Considering Wayne Watness connection to both Josh and Lindsey and ... the relation between his residence and the Baum residence ... I believe that this man should be a person of interest.

Janet

+++++++++++++++++

Expert: Missing girl likely went with someone she knew
09:58 PM PDT on Wednesday, July 1, 2009


A national expert helping in the search for 10-year-old Lindsey Baum says someone Lindsey knew might be responsible for her disappearance. Baum vanished while walking home from a friend’s house Friday around 9 p.m.

"Based on the information I have, it’s someone she possibly knows or is in the area, not outside the area," said Henry Schmidt, with the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children.
 
Schmidt, a retired sheriff from Wyoming, arrived in McCleary to assist with the search Sunday.

http://www.nwcn.com/statenews/washington/stories/NW_070109WAB-mccleary-KS.260ea8b9.html






Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Tracygirl on August 02, 2009, 06:02:02 PM
Janet not to be disrespectful or anything, but do you have siblings you grew up with?  Most people with siblings will tell you there are times you fight, it is natural. I take Lindseys words as being more teasing then anything else.

I was reading on the Adam Cambell thread. Interesting....



Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Tamikosmom on August 02, 2009, 06:06:39 PM
I'm going to ask a stupid question, because I'm confused and you all probably know and can answer in a flash. 

Re: Lindsey's last confirmed sighting

Is the last confirmed sighting of Lindsey on Maple & Fifth Street?

TIA, Lovinlife


Grays Harbor Undersheriff Rick Scott  

ABC News – June 30, 2009


Scott said witnesses were able to put Lindsey within a couple of blocks of her house just after 9:30 p.m. The last person reported to have seen her, he said, was a neighbor on her way to work.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/Story?id=7966924&page=2


Grays Harbor Undersheriff Rick Scott  

The Daily World - July 2, 2009


Scott said a second person came forward Tuesday with a confirmed sighting of Baum from Friday night in the same area along Maple Street near Fifth Street.

http://**/articles/2009/07/02/local_news/doc4a4cf43c1b1dd881132403




Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Rob on August 02, 2009, 06:08:11 PM
Thank you pink angel.

I stand by my position.

In the course of the investigation ... in the process of elimination ...

1.  I believe that all resident from 15th on Maple to the Baum residence should be considered persons of interest and questioned as well as the respective properties throughly searched.

2.  Considering the heated argument between Josh and Lindsey that dictated intervention  combined with other revealed dynamics encompassing the sibling relationship ... I believe Josh should be considered a person of interest.   

3.  Considering Wayne Watness connection to both Josh and Lindsey and ... the relation between his residence and the Baum residence ... I believe that this man should be a person of interest.

Janet

+++++++++++++++++

Expert: Missing girl likely went with someone she knew
09:58 PM PDT on Wednesday, July 1, 2009


A national expert helping in the search for 10-year-old Lindsey Baum says someone Lindsey knew might be responsible for her disappearance. Baum vanished while walking home from a friend’s house Friday around 9 p.m.

"Based on the information I have, it’s someone she possibly knows or is in the area, not outside the area," said Henry Schmidt, with the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children.
 
Schmidt, a retired sheriff from Wyoming, arrived in McCleary to assist with the search Sunday.

http://www.nwcn.com/statenews/washington/stories/NW_070109WAB-mccleary-KS.260ea8b9.html

Quote
1.  I believe that all resident from 15th on Maple to the Baum residence should be considered persons of interest and questioned as well as the respective properties throughly searched.

Janet, you know that the Constitution and the Bill of Rights prevent undue search and seizure. The residence MAY voluntarily submit, but no one can force anything on anyone without a search warrant signed by a judge based on compelling evidence.

Quote
2.  Considering the heated argument between Josh and Lindsey that dictated intervention  combined with other revealed dynamics encompassing the sibling relationship ... I believe Josh should be considered a person of interest.   

most here have brothers and sisters and did have fights and disagreements with them. I'm sure what constitutes a 'heated argument' between a 10 year old and a 12 year old? Certainly wouldn't rise to the level of never speaking again. These are a 10 year old and a 12 year old. I'm sure they loved each other. And Melissa is on the record saying that she is observing Josh's pain. 

Quote
3.  Considering Wayne Watness connection to both Josh and Lindsey and ... the relation between his residence and the Baum residence ... I believe that this man should be a person of interest.

I realize that there have been some high profile cases involving church members, but that alone should not skew our view of the majority of people involved in the church or give us a reason to look at them for that reason alone. In order to be a POI, there needs to be a real reason such as he was the last person seen with the missing person. Simply living in the neighborhood is not enough.

BTW - glad you are having a great summer and going to D-Land with the family and kids  ::MonkeyWink:: You'll have a great time!!


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Lovinlife on August 02, 2009, 06:11:11 PM
Thanks Janet.   ::MonkeyAngel::


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: JessStar on August 02, 2009, 06:17:36 PM
I'm on mobile so I can't quote, but regarding MB's alleged inconsistent statements, I don't see them as inconsistent. I think she was speaking metaphorically, like words being stuck on the tip of your tongue. She was speaking about how she feels, not about where her daughter might be physically located. She feels like her daughter is standing right in front of her,yet she can't see her. It's symbolic of her frustration and pain over this.  I don't know if I am articulating this right because I've had a stressful day today-I hope I'm making sense.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Sister on August 02, 2009, 06:19:31 PM
Tracygirl, Rob, Pink, DD, and others,
Ditto!!
Think about it!!!!! hmmmm a totally new concept!


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Tamikosmom on August 02, 2009, 06:20:39 PM
Janet not to be disrespectful or anything, but do you have siblings you grew up with?  Most people with siblings will tell you there are times you fight, it is natural. I take Lindseys words as being more teasing then anything else.

I was reading on the Adam Cambell thread. Interesting....



I have two younger brothers ... my daughter has four children between the ages of 6 and 11.  Tracygirl ... I know all about sibling rivalry but ... what has been revealed about the dynamics in Lindsey and Josh's relationship goes way beyond what I would consider typical.

IMO

Janet

++++++


mlachester 1 day ago wrote:

... And this is no nick name everyone in McCleary knows who I am. Its no big secret she had came to my house to call 911 when her brother had done things to her.

http://www.king5.com/topstories/stories/NW_063009WAB-Mccleary-girl-search-LJ.1fc0b759.html?ocp=2#slcgm_comments_anchor


mlachester 2 hours ago wrote:

I am close to her and I know a lot more than the media or law enforcement are saying right now. … Sorry if you don't like the truth but I have never been one to keep the truth in and she should of been taken the first time she called 911 from my house asking for help instead of put in a police car and taken back to her abuser!"

http://www.king5.com/topstories/stor...omments_anchor


mamahead 13 hours ago wrote:
 
Lindsey has been afraid of her brother for a very long time. He has threatned her many times. Where is she? And why is the mother not crazy with sadness or emotion. Show us some tears. The friend that Lindsey was last with shows more emotion than the mother. And why was the brother begging for money for fireworks at his little sisters candlelight vigil?

http://www.king5.com/topstories/stories/NW_070609WAB-missing-mccleary-girl-SW.14c01624.html


LINDSEY BAUM - IN HER OWN WORDS

Lindsey Baum:  Facebook Entry


TWILIGHT FREAK is happy that her brother is going to juvi tomorrow.Mood: happ at 14:10 17 Jun view more

Lindsey Baum is happy that her brother is going to juvie tomorrow.
Mood: Happ at 14:10 17 June

http://www.myspace.com/477760045





Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Tamikosmom on August 02, 2009, 06:26:54 PM
Rob ... in the process of elimination ... I cannot comprehend why ANYBODY would not cooperate with authorities in regards to questioning and searching of property when it is considered a little girl is missing.

If I lived in McCleary and ... the authorities arrived at my door and requested to search my residence and property.  I would step aside and ... instruct them to go for it!

I do not believe for a second if those residence and properties between 5th on Maple and the Baum residence have not been search ... it is because residents would not give permission.

Janet


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Tamikosmom on August 02, 2009, 06:27:47 PM
I am done!


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Sister on August 02, 2009, 06:31:10 PM
Janet, do you know which people refused to cooperate? what is your source? and not merely someone who obviously has a grudge against MB.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Tracygirl on August 02, 2009, 06:33:33 PM
Janet,
Please explain your theory.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Tracygirl on August 02, 2009, 06:35:16 PM
Tracygirl, Rob, Pink, DD, and others,
Ditto!!
Think about it!!!!! hmmmm a totally new concept!

This is me right now  :2brickwall: :gaah: :smt073


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: KarmaRoundUp on August 02, 2009, 06:36:39 PM
Tracygirl, Rob, Pink, DD, and others,
Ditto!!
Think about it!!!!! hmmmm a totally new concept!
I find this insulting,I'm done too.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Tracygirl on August 02, 2009, 06:43:24 PM
I am done!

Janet I think we are all reading what you are writing and not connecting the dots as you have. If you have a theory on HOW then please post it. Is this just a gut feeling or do you have more then a few postings from people we do not know the motives or if they are even the same person or two different people. I read their postings and found it suspect if they are involved to be honest. 


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: klaasend on August 02, 2009, 06:44:10 PM
What the heck is going on here?


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Tamikosmom on August 02, 2009, 06:48:36 PM
Janet, do you know which people refused to cooperate? what is your source? and not merely someone who obviously has a grudge against MB.

I do not have a clue.  I would assume if approached cooperation would be where it was at if  there was nothing to hide.

I would hope ... in the course of the investigation ... that Maple Stree residents in that two block stretch, respective properties, Josh Baum and Wayne Watnee have been investigated and ruled out ... not disregarded.

However ... when it was revealed that other day that authorities were retracing their steps in the investigation and questioning residents who could not be contacted when Lindsey went missing ... it leads me to believe that their respective properties has yet to be searched.

Janet

++++++++


Police chase leads on missing McCleary girl
Updated: 07/30/09

 
Officers and volunteers knocked on doors throughout town Tuesday, asking new questions and trying to reach people missed in previous interviews, Scott said.

Two teams with cadaver search dogs also roamed the town, he said, but the hot conditions limited the available scents and quickly wore out the dogs.

http://www.thenewstribune.com/news/northwest/story/827963.html


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Tracygirl on August 02, 2009, 06:50:37 PM
Tracygirl, Rob, Pink, DD, and others,
Ditto!!
Think about it!!!!! hmmmm a totally new concept!
I find this insulting,I'm done too.

OMG this is childish. Come on everyone, stop it. If there is a reason to see Josh as a suspect, then please post more then a couple of quotes from posters we know nothing about in the respect of motives and also a fight he had with his sister.
Convince us of how he could have done this and gotten away with it for this long?


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: KarmaRoundUp on August 02, 2009, 06:54:13 PM
Tracygirl, Rob, Pink, DD, and others,
Ditto!!
Think about it!!!!! hmmmm a totally new concept!
I find this insulting,I'm done too.

OMG this is childish. Come on everyone, stop it. If there is a reason to see Josh as a suspect, then please post more then a couple of quotes from posters we know nothing about in the respect of motives and also a fight he had with his sister.
Convince us of how he could have done this and gotten away with it for this long?
I really don't feel like explaining my opinions right now,maybe I'm just not grasping Sister's"think about it!!!!!!hmmmmm a totally new concept!!!!"
I guess I must be stupid?Dunno,I'll be reading and trying to learn all I can though.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Lovinlife on August 02, 2009, 06:57:24 PM
OMG this is childish. Come on everyone, stop it. If there is a reason to see Josh as a suspect, then please post more then a couple of quotes from posters we know nothing about in the respect of motives and also a fight he had with his sister.
Convince us of how he could have done this and gotten away with it for this long?
I think it goes beyond JB. Some posters have been condescending to others for unfounded reasons. JMO

I agree, let's get back to finding Lindsey Baum.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: klaasend on August 02, 2009, 07:00:55 PM
Thank you pink angel.

I stand by my position.

In the course of the investigation ... in the process of elimination ...

1.  I believe that all resident from 15th on Maple to the Baum residence should be considered persons of interest and questioned as well as the respective properties throughly searched.

2.  Considering the heated argument between Josh and Lindsey that dictated intervention  combined with other revealed dynamics encompassing the sibling relationship ... I believe Josh should be considered a person of interest.   

3.  Considering Wayne Watness connection to both Josh and Lindsey and ... the relation between his residence and the Baum residence ... I believe that this man should be a person of interest.

Janet

+++++++++++++++++

Expert: Missing girl likely went with someone she knew
09:58 PM PDT on Wednesday, July 1, 2009


A national expert helping in the search for 10-year-old Lindsey Baum says someone Lindsey knew might be responsible for her disappearance. Baum vanished while walking home from a friend’s house Friday around 9 p.m.

"Based on the information I have, it’s someone she possibly knows or is in the area, not outside the area," said Henry Schmidt, with the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children.
 
Schmidt, a retired sheriff from Wyoming, arrived in McCleary to assist with the search Sunday.

http://www.nwcn.com/statenews/washington/stories/NW_070109WAB-mccleary-KS.260ea8b9.html






I don't see any problem with Janet's post above but I'm not reading more into it than what's there.  She's just saying that logically the people mentioned above should be considered persons on interest until proven otherwise.  She's not accusing anyone just saying what to her would be the logical place to start.

Personally, I think everyone from the time Lindsey left her house (with her brother) to the time she went missing, everyone inbetween should be persons of interest UNTIL PROVEN OTHERWISE.

Tensions run high in these missing persons cases and especially when the person has not been found. 


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Tracygirl on August 02, 2009, 07:03:25 PM
Lets assume those who love Lindsey are checking on this thread everyday hoping we all come up with some theory which leads them to Lindsey...When I first found Scared Monkeys I was searching for little Sandra Cantu and wanted to learn from you all where to look next. I wanted your opinions but I also wanted to know theories based on facts.   



Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on August 02, 2009, 07:09:08 PM
In my view, searching the yards, and not inside the houses is an incomplete search. Do most houses there in McCleary have basements? Until they are throughly searched, along with the crawlspaces underneath, and in the attic areas, they have not done a thorough search job.

 Bodies have been sealed in containers, wrapped in blankets and stuffed in trunks for years without neighbors being suspicious. Deep freezers are the same. Bodies have been buried in unfinished basements. Think John Wayne Gacy. There were even police inside his home and didn't realize there were multiple bodies buried down there. But I believe a cadaver dog would have picked up on it.

Are the neighbors that live on the streets where Lindsay was know to be been unwilling for the LE to search their homes, or have the LE made no efforts to do so? 

BUMPED

I am bumping my own post from a day or two ago. I don't think this was ever addressed but this was my thought then, and still is my thought. I do not think it is very far from what Janet is trying to say.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on August 02, 2009, 07:13:32 PM
O/T JANET, ISLAND left you a post on the Billings thread. I hope you read it.   ::MonkeyAngel::


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: no rose colored glasses on August 02, 2009, 07:15:18 PM
But to me the big question is why are some of the people not being that cooperative, and also I noticed that the towns people are not that willing to help, and even hardly come out to the vigil, the vigil did not have that many people. Why? Do they not like the family, or do they have something to hide, something they maybe doing inside their homes?


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Tracygirl on August 02, 2009, 07:17:07 PM
I am not sure how we would find out how has cooperated and who has not. What are the laws on police searching homes without a search warrant in the state of Washington? Do they just go in and see only what is on the surface or are they allowed to move things around? Can they bring dogs in or just do a visual sweep of the area?



Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Tamikosmom on August 02, 2009, 07:21:04 PM
DD

I speculate IF something happened to Lindsey at the hands of her brother ... it was completely unplanned.  I am not condoning but ... it could have been possibly provoked and ... he acted impulsively.  At twelve years old ... I believe this young man would have panicked and ... bolted.  In all probability ... no attempt or ... very little attempt at hiding his sister's body.  Maybe Lindsey was covered with debris or foilage.

I believe IF the above scenario took place ... Lindsey will be found in an out-of-sight spot on one of the properties in that two block radius.

Sheriff Scott stated in the search the other day ... that they were calling on neighbours again and requestioning them as well as neighbours who had yet to be contacted.  It does not appear that those properties were search to any extent ... only rural areas.

Also ... when it is considered what a resident said about Josh's behavior at that first vigil in regards to attempting to solicit money for the purchase of fireworks and ... KaraK's words about Josh's behavior at a search effort regarding Josh's only interest was in arranging a playdate with her son ... it appears that he does not comprehend that seriousness of the situation.  A lack of conscience can account for the fact there is no remorse.

DD ... I am only speculating.  Lindsey Baum is missing and ... something happened to her. 

Janet


BUMPED


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Tamikosmom on August 02, 2009, 07:22:11 PM
The flushing of the water and treatment systems could have masked the initial strench of body decomposition body.  However ... after over a month ... would there still be a decomposition order?

What if Lindsey's remains were not disposed of but ... are out of sight ... maybe covered with debris or foilage.  Maybe her remains are lying not far from where she was last observed two blocks from home by a family friend who was driving to work.  Maybe a thorough search with the dogs should be conducted by authorities on ALL properties in that two block stretch.

Remember Jessica Lundsford.  This little girl's remains were found on property within a stone throw from her home ... from the bed she was abducted from. 

Janet

+++++++

McCleary Water / Wastewater manages both the water system from the wells into homes and businesses and the sewer system that takes wastewater to the treatment plant.

WATER SYSTEM FLUSHING

June 22nd through July 2nd


The City crew will be flushing the water system using various fire hydrants around town, click on the link below to read the entire Public Notice and what to do in your area when the flushing takes place.

Hydrant flushing notice 

Wastewater Treatment

Water System

http://www.cityofmccleary.com/index.asp?Type=B_BASIC&SEC={CAF3B3FA-696A-4B0F-B441-C68ADF931009}


BUMPED


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Tamikosmom on August 02, 2009, 07:23:04 PM
DD

When all the underlying dynamic that has been revealed/alleged encompassing Josh Baum and ... then when you consider the argument that must of been so heated that it dictated  intervention by a neighbour ... logic dictates that Lindsey's brother should not be overlooked as a person of interest.  Hey ... maybe he has not been overlooked but ... the dots cannot be connected.  Think about the six searches conducted at the creek within days following Lindsey's disappearance.  Think about the recent search with the dogs.

I can only speculate on a possible scenerio and ... it involve a chance meeting between  Lindsey and a still angry Josh within two block from their home ... a chance meeting following Lindsey being observed at FiftH and Maple by a neighbor driving to work.  Then somewhere a short distance off the beaten track ... things go out of hand.   

Consideing Melissa Baum passed a lie detector test ... I do not believe she has any first hand knowledge of wrongdoing.

I saw a photo of Josh Baum at the second vigil a few nights ago.  He is a good size.

Again ... I am not accusing but ... when what is known about Josh and Lindsey's relationship that appears to reach beyond normal sibling rivalry ... I believe that her brother should not be overlooked as a person of interest.

Janet



BUMPED


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Tamikosmom on August 02, 2009, 07:24:50 PM
O/T JANET, ISLAND left you a post on the Billings thread. I hope you read it.   ::MonkeyAngel::


Thanks Fanny Mae

 ::MonkeyAngel::

Janet


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on August 02, 2009, 07:27:53 PM
I am not sure how we would find out how has cooperated and who has not. What are the laws on police searching homes without a search warrant in the state of Washington? Do they just go in and see only what is on the surface or are they allowed to move things around? Can they bring dogs in or just do a visual sweep of the area?



I just keep thinking over and over about Jessica Lunsford. She was buried alive just yards from her own home several days after she came up missing. There seems to be no lessons learned in this case, even though it was thousands of miles from McCleary. If only they had gone inside with the search dogs. If only when they talked to the people at the door and they refused to let them come in they had gotten a search warrant to search. If only....There is no reason for someone to refuse to let the LE search unless they have something to hide. I think that refusal in any state would probably be a show cause for a search warrant. JMO


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Tamikosmom on August 02, 2009, 07:30:38 PM
Again ... it would be interesting to know what time Josh Baum got home on the evening of June 26, 2009.  Did he go home as the neighbour who intervened in the argument had instructed?  If he was at home with Mom prior to Lindsey's leaving the Kampen resident between 9:15 PM and 9:30 PM then this wannabe detective's speculation will go in another direction.

Janet


BUMPED


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: MuffyBee on August 02, 2009, 07:31:56 PM
For what it's worth:  I just got off the phone with a special weapons and tactics law enforcement officer with 15 years experience and he trains others in his field.   He said one of the first things that would be done in an investigation in a missing person's case like Lindsey's would be to rule out those closest to the victim.  They would be looked at first and looked at closely.  That makes sense to me. 


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Sister on August 02, 2009, 07:38:11 PM
Island, sorry for the confusion.  I was quoting someone else's repeated statement and I should have actually quoted them.  I enjoy your posts.  Again, sorry for the confusion.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: MuffyBee on August 02, 2009, 07:39:50 PM
(http://bestsmileys.com/hugging/3.gif)


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Tracygirl on August 02, 2009, 07:40:48 PM
Muffybee that is what I would think.

Janet unless you can call the mom not sure if you can find out the detail what you are looking for in order to look at some other place.

Why do you believe the brother has not been ruled out? has there been a statement from LE stating they do not want too look at Josh? I am just trying to follow your thinking is all, not trying to be argumentative.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on August 02, 2009, 07:41:48 PM
For what it's worth:  I just got off the phone with a special weapons and tactics law enforcement officer with 15 years experience and he trains others in his field.   He said one of the first things that would be done in an investigation in a missing person's case like Lindsey's would be to rule out those closest to the victim.  They would be looked at first and looked at closely.  That makes sense to me. 

It makes sense to me too. But it appears that the most rudimentary things have not been done in Lindsay's case, as evidenced by the search by cadaver dogs in open areas and knocking on doors talking to people they have not been able to contact before over a month later. This ain't exactly a huge city. It's a little town in the middle of a forest, and way too laid back to have a child missing in their midst. JMO


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Tracygirl on August 02, 2009, 07:47:51 PM
Sorry about this.....If she is dead and was placed in a crawl space wouldn't there be a smell? I had a cat die under a house and my god you could smell it down the street.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: MuffyBee on August 02, 2009, 07:48:29 PM
For what it's worth:  I just got off the phone with a special weapons and tactics law enforcement officer with 15 years experience and he trains others in his field.   He said one of the first things that would be done in an investigation in a missing person's case like Lindsey's would be to rule out those closest to the victim.  They would be looked at first and looked at closely.  That makes sense to me. 

It makes sense to me too. But it appears that the most rudimentary things have not been done in Lindsay's case, as evidenced by the search by cadaver dogs in open areas and knocking on doors talking to people they have not been able to contact before over a month later. This ain't exactly a huge city. It's a little town in the middle of a forest, and way too laid back to have a child missing in their midst. JMO

I can see what you mean Fanny Mae.  In my area, we would have to have dogs and such brought in too, because we wouldn't have those kinds of resources here.  My area doesn't even have a city police department.  We have one deputy sheriff for every approx. 88 miles. And I know so many towns don't have highly trained personnel or budgets.  They would have to ask for help.  I hope Lindsey is able to be found. 


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on August 02, 2009, 07:49:10 PM
Sorry about this.....If she is dead and was placed in a crawl space wouldn't there be a smell? I had a cat die under a house and my god you could smell it down the street.

Did anyone ever complain about the smell of MULTIPLE bodies buried in the crawl space of John Wayne Gayce's house in Chicago?


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: no rose colored glasses on August 02, 2009, 07:55:39 PM
Sorry about this.....If she is dead and was placed in a crawl space wouldn't there be a smell? I had a cat die under a house and my god you could smell it down the street.

Did anyone ever complain about the smell of MULTIPLE bodies buried in the crawl space of John Wayne Gayce's house in Chicago?
Not that I was ever aware of, and I have read a bit about him. But remember even if there was a smell they were flushing the water system, and had said there would be a smell while they were doing that.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Tracygirl on August 02, 2009, 07:56:51 PM
I don't know about that, did anyone complain about an odd smell?  I would assume most times if the body is just placed somewhere and there is access to air the smell would rise.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on August 02, 2009, 07:57:32 PM
For what it's worth:  I just got off the phone with a special weapons and tactics law enforcement officer with 15 years experience and he trains others in his field.   He said one of the first things that would be done in an investigation in a missing person's case like Lindsey's would be to rule out those closest to the victim.  They would be looked at first and looked at closely.  That makes sense to me. 

It makes sense to me too. But it appears that the most rudimentary things have not been done in Lindsay's case, as evidenced by the search by cadaver dogs in open areas and knocking on doors talking to people they have not been able to contact before over a month later. This ain't exactly a huge city. It's a little town in the middle of a forest, and way too laid back to have a child missing in their midst. JMO

I can see what you mean Fanny Mae.  In my area, we would have to have dogs and such brought in too, because we wouldn't have those kinds of resources here.  My area doesn't even have a city police department.  We have one deputy sheriff for every approx. 88 miles. And I know so many towns don't have highly trained personnel or budgets.  They would have to ask for help.  I hope Lindsey is able to be found. 

My point being, if they had asked for help, there were resources available, IF ONLY THE PD HAD ASKED, from the state and other large areas such as King County. As I understand it, the King Country search teams were not even there until just recently. The FBI has only provided a Assistant Special Agent who only responds to posters with form letter e-mails. I doubt if he is even in the area now. I am not sure, but I am guessing there is a huge district the FBI covers, anyway. If the local LE doesn't ask for help, none just come on their own.

I am thinking that maybe the Federal Attorney in the area should look into the handling of this case. It has been half-hearted at best. JMO


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Tracygirl on August 02, 2009, 08:00:57 PM
Sorry about this.....If she is dead and was placed in a crawl space wouldn't there be a smell? I had a cat die under a house and my god you could smell it down the street.

Did anyone ever complain about the smell of MULTIPLE bodies buried in the crawl space of John Wayne Gayce's house in Chicago?
Not that I was ever aware of, and I have read a bit about him. But remember even if there was a smell they were flushing the water system, and had said there would be a smell while they were doing that.
When did they flush the water system? The smell of a decaying body doesn't takes that long. (sorry about writing this..) I think it is within 24 to 48 hours when decomposing gets to this point.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on August 02, 2009, 08:01:51 PM
I don't know about that, did anyone complain about an odd smell?  I would assume most times if the body is just placed somewhere and there is access to air the smell would rise.

No, they did not. Read it and weep. He got away with it for years. Police had even been inside his house before.

http://www.crimemagazine.com/boykillergacy.htm



Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: JessStar on August 02, 2009, 08:02:53 PM
Flushing the sewer system would have had no effect on the cadaver dogs. Human decomposition has a very unique, identifiable odor the dogs are trained to detect.

In my mind, the question of whether LE properly investigated things early on and whether JB is somehow involved in his sister's disappearance are two entirely different questions. To me, it still boils down to the two questions I posed earlier.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: no rose colored glasses on August 02, 2009, 08:03:17 PM
I don't know about that, did anyone complain about an odd smell?  I would assume most times if the body is just placed somewhere and there is access to air the smell would rise.
Klaas had posted that the city was flushing the water system, between this date and that date, sorry I can't remember exact dates, but it feel in the time that Lindsey was reported missing. And that there would be a smell. So if someone smelled something, they might have thought it was from that.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: no rose colored glasses on August 02, 2009, 08:04:34 PM
Flushing the sewer system would have had no effect on the cadaver dogs. Human decomposition has a very unique, identifiable odor the dogs are trained to detect.

In my mind, the question of whether LE properly investigated things early on and whether JB is somehow involved in his sister's disappearance are two entirely different questions. To me, it still boils down to the two questions I posed earlier.
I agree, what I was commenting on is if a resident smelled something they might have thought it was the sewer system, and not a decomposing body, just a thought.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on August 02, 2009, 08:05:33 PM
The flushing of the water and treatment systems could have masked the initial strench of body decomposition body.  However ... after over a month ... would there still be a decomposition order?

What if Lindsey's remains were not disposed of but ... are out of sight ... maybe covered with debris or foilage.  Maybe her remains are lying not far from where she was last observed two blocks from home by a family friend who was driving to work.  Maybe a thorough search with the dogs should be conducted by authorities on ALL properties in that two block stretch.

Remember Jessica Lundsford.  This little girl's remains were found on property within a stone throw from her home ... from the bed she was abducted from. 

Janet

+++++++

McCleary Water / Wastewater manages both the water system from the wells into homes and businesses and the sewer system that takes wastewater to the treatment plant.

WATER SYSTEM FLUSHING

June 22nd through July 2nd


The City crew will be flushing the water system using various fire hydrants around town, click on the link below to read the entire Public Notice and what to do in your area when the flushing takes place.

Hydrant flushing notice 

Wastewater Treatment

Water System

http://www.cityofmccleary.com/index.asp?Type=B_BASIC&SEC={CAF3B3FA-696A-4B0F-B441-C68ADF931009}


BUMPED

TracyGirl, I will bump this again. KLAAS posted this first a couple of weeks or so ago.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on August 02, 2009, 08:07:43 PM
Flushing the sewer system would have had no effect on the cadaver dogs. Human decomposition has a very unique, identifiable odor the dogs are trained to detect.

In my mind, the question of whether LE properly investigated things early on and whether JB is somehow involved in his sister's disappearance are two entirely different questions. To me, it still boils down to the two questions I posed earlier.

Do you know if CADAVER dogs were brought in when Lindsay first came up missing? I know there were search dogs, but were they Cadaver dogs?


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Rob on August 02, 2009, 08:09:00 PM
For what it's worth:  I just got off the phone with a special weapons and tactics law enforcement officer with 15 years experience and he trains others in his field.   He said one of the first things that would be done in an investigation in a missing person's case like Lindsey's would be to rule out those closest to the victim.  They would be looked at first and looked at closely.  That makes sense to me. 

thank you Muffy!!

In other words, as posted before, those closest to Lindsey have been ruled out, have taken polygraphs conducted by qualified individuals in their respect fields and the focus has shifts for those law enforcement officers.

As a side note, I have noticed that no family member has been asked to take a second or third poly as requested in Haleighs case. Law Enforcement is currently satisfied that NO family member is involved.

thanks again Muffy!


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Tracygirl on August 02, 2009, 08:09:29 PM
I recall reading about the case now. I wonder though since there were people activily looking for Lindsey, if that would make a difference in being able to spot a smell?

I don't recall if there are any farms around the McCleary area with animals? I was told the smell of a farm can cover a smell of a decaying body.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Rob on August 02, 2009, 08:11:07 PM
For what it's worth:  I just got off the phone with a special weapons and tactics law enforcement officer with 15 years experience and he trains others in his field.   He said one of the first things that would be done in an investigation in a missing person's case like Lindsey's would be to rule out those closest to the victim.  They would be looked at first and looked at closely.  That makes sense to me. 

It makes sense to me too. But it appears that the most rudimentary things have not been done in Lindsay's case, as evidenced by the search by cadaver dogs in open areas and knocking on doors talking to people they have not been able to contact before over a month later. This ain't exactly a huge city. It's a little town in the middle of a forest, and way too laid back to have a child missing in their midst. JMO


quite common to re-examine the areas over again as bodies have been moved to previously searched areas. It's happened more than we can count.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Sister on August 02, 2009, 08:11:41 PM
Sorry about this.....If she is dead and was placed in a crawl space wouldn't there be a smell? I had a cat die under a house and my god you could smell it down the street.

Did anyone ever complain about the smell of MULTIPLE bodies buried in the crawl space of John Wayne Gayce's house in Chicago?

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/serial_killers/notorious/gacy/8b.html

some neighbors smelled a bad ordor -- but he was famous for giving parties, including bbqs -- police crawled under the house and thought the smell was sewage, etc.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Tamikosmom on August 02, 2009, 08:11:51 PM
Muffybee that is what I would think.

Janet unless you can call the mom not sure if you can find out the detail what you are looking for in order to look at some other place.

Why do you believe the brother has not been ruled out? has there been a statement from LE stating they do not want too look at Josh? I am just trying to follow your thinking is all, not trying to be argumentative.

Tracygirl

The following statement by Sheriff Scott within four days of Lindsey's disappearance implies he considers the argument between Lindsey and Josh ... the argument that warranted intervention ... as insignificant.  I may have agree to a point if it were not for all the combined allegations that encompass the dynamics of Josh and Lindsey's relationship.

When all is said and done ... I do not know to what extent Josh Baum has been investigated any more than the potential "persons of interest" that DD and others are researching.  We are all armchair detectives working with what is out there ... not just pulling speculations out of thin air.  However ... much more info is required if the dots are going to be connected.

The truth will be revealed!  In the meantime "respectfully" agreeing to disagree with each other when there is a difference of opinion is where it is at.

Janet

++++++

Grays Harbor Undersheriff Rick Scott

The Olympian - June 30, 2009


Lindsey left her cell phone at home before leaving to play with friends Friday, said Grays Harbor Undersheriff Rick Scott. Lindsey’s older brother had left the Maple Street residence before his sister after the two had a dispute over the bike Lindsey had borrowed from him that day – a common occurrence between frequently squabbling siblings, Scott added.

http://www.theolympian.com/southsound/story/896613.html


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: JessStar on August 02, 2009, 08:14:16 PM
I'm not sure when cadaver dogs were first brought in. But they were brought in. They would be capable of detecting decomp as long as it was present, which is for months after decomp begins. They can even detect decomp under water.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Sister on August 02, 2009, 08:15:40 PM
Island, sorry for the confusion.  I was quoting someone else's repeated statement and I should have actually quoted them.  I enjoy your posts.  Again, sorry for the confusion.

Gracious, I meant to say KarmaR, sorry for the confusion.  Time for bed!
 :smt015


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on August 02, 2009, 08:16:41 PM
For what it's worth:  I just got off the phone with a special weapons and tactics law enforcement officer with 15 years experience and he trains others in his field.   He said one of the first things that would be done in an investigation in a missing person's case like Lindsey's would be to rule out those closest to the victim.  They would be looked at first and looked at closely.  That makes sense to me. 

It makes sense to me too. But it appears that the most rudimentary things have not been done in Lindsay's case, as evidenced by the search by cadaver dogs in open areas and knocking on doors talking to people they have not been able to contact before over a month later. This ain't exactly a huge city. It's a little town in the middle of a forest, and way too laid back to have a child missing in their midst. JMO


quite common to re-examine the areas over again as bodies have been moved to previously searched areas. It's happened more than we can count.

Why did they wait a month to go back and talk to people they had not been able to contact when Lindsay came up missing?? And, have they checked the INSIDE of the houses along Lindsay's route home? Do we know that?


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on August 02, 2009, 08:18:07 PM
I'm not sure when cadaver dogs were first brought in. But they were brought in. They would be capable of detecting decomp as long as it was present, which is for months after decomp begins. They can even detect decomp under water.

I can tell you that the first I heard of Cadaver dogs was last week, and they were looking in open fields, from the reports I have heard.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Tracygirl on August 02, 2009, 08:20:28 PM
Janet I will agree to disagree but I do believe I was asking for more information on your theory, not necessarily disagreeing with you.

Here is a site that tells about decomposition. It is disgusting to read and there are pics of little piglets.  so be warned

http://www.7oaks.org/site/hcaverycomputerlab/file/Grade%207%20Science/Stages_of_DecompositionPiglet.pdf


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on August 02, 2009, 08:24:24 PM
Janet I will agree to disagree but I do believe I was asking for more information on your theory, not necessarily disagreeing with you.

Here is a site that tells about decomposition. It is disgusting to read and there are pics of little piglets.  so be warned

http://www.7oaks.org/site/hcaverycomputerlab/file/Grade%207%20Science/Stages_of_DecompositionPiglet.pdf

TracyGirl, bodies are not alway lying out in the open. There are many ways to conceal them. I bumped a post of mine earlier. It comes not only from reading, but also from previous experience.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: A_News_Junkie_Monkey on August 02, 2009, 08:24:52 PM
For what it's worth:  I just got off the phone with a special weapons and tactics law enforcement officer with 15 years experience and he trains others in his field.   He said one of the first things that would be done in an investigation in a missing person's case like Lindsey's would be to rule out those closest to the victim.  They would be looked at first and looked at closely.  That makes sense to me. 

Can I add, I see a bunch of posters wanting every home searched, but the 4th amendment to the US Constitution prevents that while guarding citizens rights to and guards against unreasonable searches and seizures.  They can't just enter all the homes without just cause.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Tamikosmom on August 02, 2009, 08:27:30 PM
Janet I will agree to disagree but I do believe I was asking for more information on your theory, not necessarily disagreeing with you.

Here is a site that tells about decomposition. It is disgusting to read and there are pics of little piglets.  so be warned

http://www.7oaks.org/site/hcaverycomputerlab/file/Grade%207%20Science/Stages_of_DecompositionPiglet.pdf

Tracygirl

I bumped three posts in the past couple of pages of this thread that explain what I believe may have happened as it pertains to Josh Baum.

You theories would be appreciated.

Janet


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: no rose colored glasses on August 02, 2009, 08:30:12 PM
For what it's worth:  I just got off the phone with a special weapons and tactics law enforcement officer with 15 years experience and he trains others in his field.   He said one of the first things that would be done in an investigation in a missing person's case like Lindsey's would be to rule out those closest to the victim.  They would be looked at first and looked at closely.  That makes sense to me. 

Can I add, I see a bunch of posters wanting every home searched, but the 4th amendment to the US Constitution prevents that while guarding citizens rights to and guards against unreasonable searches and seizures.  They can't just enter all the homes without just cause.
Very, very true, I think also that even though a child is missing some people may be worried that LE might stumble onto somethings in their home which are questionable at best, and are afraid to allow LE into their home.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Tamikosmom on August 02, 2009, 08:30:30 PM
Tracygirl, Rob, Pink, DD, and others,
Ditto!!
Think about it!!!!! hmmmm a totally new concept!

 ::MonkeyShocked::


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: JessStar on August 02, 2009, 08:32:47 PM
Can I ask why we are discussing the decomp issue?  Is there a suggestion that JB was possibly capable of concealing a body in such a manner that it would be undetectable? Such as the way Gacy or Dahmer did?


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: mamacrazy30 on August 02, 2009, 08:36:24 PM
i thank goodness everyday that there are folks (such as Scared Monkeys) that care about these situations.  These Children..the reason that we are here...  To figure out what is right and wrong..to help those in need, and to promote justice to victims...Everyone here has a voice and every voice needs to be heard....we are here for Lindsey...may every crook or craney be searched...that is what needs to be done...
please can we quit fighting..we are here for Lindsey...that is the focus...and that is why everyone is so heated...many have opinions and that is GOOD... We are here for Lindsey and that is.  We will all have different ideas and that is ok!  until we have some real info that is all we have. ::MonkeyAngel::


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: no rose colored glasses on August 02, 2009, 08:37:03 PM
Can I ask why we are discussing the decomp issue?  Is there a suggestion that JB was possibly capable of concealing a body in such a manner that it would be undetectable? Such as the way Gacy or Dahmer did?
I can't speak for anyone else, I was just talking about the sewer system being flushed and about the odor that would be caused by that.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on August 02, 2009, 08:37:55 PM
For what it's worth:  I just got off the phone with a special weapons and tactics law enforcement officer with 15 years experience and he trains others in his field.   He said one of the first things that would be done in an investigation in a missing person's case like Lindsey's would be to rule out those closest to the victim.  They would be looked at first and looked at closely.  That makes sense to me. 

Can I add, I see a bunch of posters wanting every home searched, but the 4th amendment to the US Constitution prevents that while guarding citizens rights to and guards against unreasonable searches and seizures.  They can't just enter all the homes without just cause.

Well shoot. Let's just quit looking for Lindsay. Let's go back to looking up every SO from McCleary to Timbuctu!

You start at where the missing child was LAST SEEN, and you work out in circles. The inner circle HAS NOT been thoroughly searched yet IMO. It is only common sense. Refusing to let the LE look inside would raise red flags in almost every state and jurisdiction, and would cause most LE to take a closer look at why not. I have seen no evidence that the LE has even done that at all. This is just my opinion.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: no rose colored glasses on August 02, 2009, 08:40:10 PM
IMO I think valuable time was lost, thinking perhaps she was a runaway.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: JessStar on August 02, 2009, 08:44:25 PM
Fannie Mae- you have identified the issue that is at the heart of the 4th amendment's protection against unreasonable searches and seizures. Our Supreme Court has held that refusal to allow a search cannot be used alone as evidence to support a search warrant. There must be something more- something that raises the probability that a search will uncover evidence of a crime. I agree- it can raise a red flag. But fortunately or unfortunately, that's the law.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: pdh3 on August 02, 2009, 08:44:28 PM
Sorry about this.....If she is dead and was placed in a crawl space wouldn't there be a smell? I had a cat die under a house and my god you could smell it down the street.

Did anyone ever complain about the smell of MULTIPLE bodies buried in the crawl space of John Wayne Gayce's house in Chicago?

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/serial_killers/notorious/gacy/8b.html

some neighbors smelled a bad ordor -- but he was famous for giving parties, including bbqs -- police crawled under the house and thought the smell was sewage, etc.





At one time during his dark days as a serial killer, Gacy was married. His wife and her child or children ( can't remember if the woman had more than one child) complained about the bad smell in the house. People did notice the smell, but he was able to explain it away. Apparently, no one ever thought about the possibility of bodies buried underneath the house until later.  He used lime to try and control the odor, but with that many burial sites, it was not enough to cover up the smell of decomposition.

In this informed day and age, I'd hope that people would be more suspicious of a terrible, persistent odor, and missing youngsters, than they were in John Wayne Gacy's time.....


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on August 02, 2009, 08:45:00 PM
Can I ask why we are discussing the decomp issue?  Is there a suggestion that JB was possibly capable of concealing a body in such a manner that it would be undetectable? Such as the way Gacy or Dahmer did?

I am not necessarily hung up on JB. But I am saying there are ways to conceal a body and I do not think it has been thoroughly investigated. I have questions in my mind if the cadaver dogs last week were even taken to the retention pond for the water system spill-off, much less the other obvious places.

By this time the townspeople should be in an uproar over Lindsay being still missing. Why are they not??


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: MuffyBee on August 02, 2009, 08:46:26 PM
http://www.komonews.com/news/49343017.html
Small town baffled, alarmed at 10-year-old girl's disappearance
Story Published: Jun 27, 2009 at 12:16 PM PDT
Story Updated: Jun 27, 2009 at 9:52 PM PDT
By Ray Lane and KOMO News Web Staff
MCCLEARY, Wash. - A wide-ranging search is under way for a 10-year-old girl who vanished Friday evening while walking home from a friend's house in this small town set amid forested hills west of Olympia. And now the entire town is worried.
Lindsey J. Baum was last seen at 9:15 p.m. Friday when she left her friend's home on Maple Street, where she had been visiting, said Dave Pimentel of the Grays Harbor County Sheriff's Office.

Lindsey was going to walk the four blocks to her home on Mommsen Road, which is roughly a 10-minute walk. But something happened in that short distance - Lindsey never arrived home.
"She hasn't been seen or heard from since," Pimentel said.
Her mother reported her missing at 10:50 p.m. And as the hours drag by with no sign of her, the girl's family fears she may have been taken by a stranger.

Search teams have been out looking for the girl, using bloodhounds. Sheriff's deputies, meanwhile, are calling people who live in the neighborhood and also are going door to door to see if anyone heard or saw anything.

Other searchers are combing the nearby woods on ATVs. Everyone is anxious for any sign of the missing girl.


Pimentel said Lindsey has never been a runaway. "We don't suspect that at this time," he said.

The girl's disappearance has shocked many residents of McCleary, population 1,550, where the biggest employer is a lumber mill that manufactures doors and people know their neighbors.

"We don't know what happened to her yet. All we know is she's missing, and we're taking every effort we can to try and locate her," he added.

Police say it appears Lindsey walked at least part of the way with home with friends, who didn't see anything unusual.

Melissa McCann, a family friend, said, "This is a small town. These things don't happen. And yet here they are. She comes from her friend's (house) a lot, so it doesn't make sense that she didn't show up at home. We're just baffled."

Pimentel said it's strange that nobody saw anything unusual.

"Such a small community like this - you can't do much in a town this size without everybody knowing about it," he said. "Everybody in town knows she's unaccounted for."

Lindsey's mother admits the 10-year old had been fighting with her brother in the moments before she was last seen, and that Lindsey is still upset about her parent's recent divorce.

But with every passing hour, there are mounting worries that the friendly girl who will talk with anybody is in serious trouble.

Lindsey was last seen wearing a gray hooded pullover sweatshirt, with blue jeans and black shoes. She stands about 4-feet-10-inches and weighs about 85 pounds.
**************************
I hope Lindsey is found soon. 


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: crazybabyborg on August 02, 2009, 08:49:47 PM
IMO I think valuable time was lost, thinking perhaps she was a runaway.

That's my understanding too, NRCG.

I realize that unwarrented searches are illegal, and I certainly agree with the rights we have in protecting ourselves from that sort of invasion. Having said that, if police came to my door asking to take a look inside because there was a child missing, I'd fling the door wide open and say "excuse the mess, is there anything I can do to help?"

It might be interesting to see who reacted differently and why! Just sayin'........


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: no rose colored glasses on August 02, 2009, 08:49:52 PM
Can I ask why we are discussing the decomp issue?  Is there a suggestion that JB was possibly capable of concealing a body in such a manner that it would be undetectable? Such as the way Gacy or Dahmer did?

I am not necessarily hung up on JB. But I am saying there are ways to conceal a body and I do not think it has been thoroughly investigated. I have questions in my mind if the cadaver dogs last week were even taken to the retention pond for the water system spill-off, much less the other obvious places.

By this time the townspeople should be in an uproar over Lindsay being still missing. Why are they not??
That is the question I would like to have answered. Either they don't care, they don't like Lindsey's family, they don't want their lives turned upside down with interference of LE. I don't know but it must be some good reason. I have asked on several occassions about how the towns people are acting over this, are their lives going on as before, are they suspicious of each other, and I have not read a reply, so I don't know.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: MuffyBee on August 02, 2009, 08:50:33 PM
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=5541.msg855570#msg855570

This is the very first post in Lindey's  thread started by Pink Angel.  Sometimes it is a good idea to go back from the start and read over things.  JMHO


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: no rose colored glasses on August 02, 2009, 08:51:18 PM
IMO I think valuable time was lost, thinking perhaps she was a runaway.

That's my understanding too, NRCG.

I realize that unwarrented searches are illegal, and I certainly agree with the rights we have in protecting ourselves from that sort of invasion. Having said that, if police came to my door asking to take a look inside because there was a child missing, I'd fling the door wide open and say "excuse the mess, is there anything I can do to help?"

It might be interesting to see who reacted differently and why! Just sayin'........
I would do the same thing, but a lot of people are paranoid and especially paranoid about LE looking around inside their homes.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on August 02, 2009, 08:56:13 PM
Fannie Mae- you have identified the issue that is at the heart of the 4th amendment's protection against unreasonable searches and seizures. Our Supreme Court has held that refusal to allow a search cannot be used alone as evidence to support a search warrant. There must be something more- something that raises the probability that a search will uncover evidence of a crime. I agree- it can raise a red flag. But fortunately or unfortunately, that's the law.

I am aware of the 4th amendment issues, well aware. When a small child is missing in a small town, everyone is generally co-operative. We have seen this over and over. Even in Boise, where Robert Manwell is missing, they were able to get a search warrant on a "show cause" because as I read it he "knew the family" and his car had been reported stolen and returned. Not much to go on, but even he was co-operative.

Now back to Lindsay. Usually police will advise the residents they are looking for Lindsay and not for any illegal drugs or porn on their computer and they will comply. It happens every day. So why is it there are so many people in McCleary that have made themselves unavailible and uncooperative? And why hasn't the LE pushed??

Is there a vigil tonight for Lindsay? How many people are there?


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: mamacrazy30 on August 02, 2009, 09:00:19 PM
IMO I think valuable time was lost, thinking perhaps she was a runaway.

That's my understanding too, NRCG.

I realize that unwarrented searches are illegal, and I certainly agree with the rights we have in protecting ourselves from that sort of invasion. Having said that, if police came to my door asking to take a look inside because there was a child missing, I'd fling the door wide open and say "excuse the mess, is there anything I can do to help?"

It might be interesting to see who reacted differently and why! Just sayin'........
::MonkeyCheer2:: :hockey: :cheers: :smt038 :2notworthy:


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Tamikosmom on August 02, 2009, 09:01:30 PM
Rob ... in the process of elimination ... I cannot comprehend why ANYBODY would not cooperate with authorities in regards to questioning and searching of property when it is considered a little girl is missing.

If I lived in McCleary and ... the authorities arrived at my door and requested to search my residence and property.  I would step aside and ... instruct them to go for it!

I do not believe for a second if those residence and properties between 5th on Maple and the Baum residence have not been search ... it is because residents would not give permission.

Janet

BUMPED


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: rebelgirl901 on August 02, 2009, 09:03:03 PM
Rob ... in the process of elimination ... I cannot comprehend why ANYBODY would not cooperate with authorities in regards to questioning and searching of property when it is considered a little girl is missing.

If I lived in McCleary and ... the authorities arrived at my door and requested to search my residence and property.  I would step aside and ... instruct them to go for it!

I do not believe for a second if those residence and properties between 5th on Maple and the Baum residence have not been search ... it is because residents would not give permission.

Janet

It does happen, I know from experience.  For whatever reason sometimes people do not want their property searched.  We had a case here where a private plane crashed into a man's field and he would not give permission to l.e. to go on his property.  They had to get all the paperwork just to locate the missing plane and recover the pilot & his passengers. Very sad that someone would not cooperate with l.e. or search & rescue when it involved others lives.  I know it wasn't a little girl missing but the same holds true, some people just don't care. 

I don't know IF anyone refused to let l.e. search their property in Lindsey's case, I'm just saying it does happen.

My kids fight a lot and sometimes they say mean things to each other but I know that they love each other and are the first one's to stand up for the other one and protect them if necessary.  It's just kids and they know how to get on each others nerves and push buttons. 

Have a lovely evening.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on August 02, 2009, 09:03:08 PM
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=5541.msg855570#msg855570

This is the very first post in Lindey's  thread started by Pink Angel.  Sometimes it is a good idea to go back from the start and read over things.  JMHO

I have read here from the beginning. The truth is, I never from the beginning thought she was a runaway.  I just haven't posted much here, and as thing have gotten tense, maybe I shouldn't be posting now. It is frustrating to see the thread go so far afield when not even the basic things have been done, IMO.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: no rose colored glasses on August 02, 2009, 09:03:59 PM
Fannie Mae- you have identified the issue that is at the heart of the 4th amendment's protection against unreasonable searches and seizures. Our Supreme Court has held that refusal to allow a search cannot be used alone as evidence to support a search warrant. There must be something more- something that raises the probability that a search will uncover evidence of a crime. I agree- it can raise a red flag. But fortunately or unfortunately, that's the law.

I am aware of the 4th amendment issues, well aware. When a small child is missing in a small town, everyone is generally co-operative. We have seen this over and over. Even in Boise, where Robert Manwell is missing, they were able to get a search warrant on a "show cause" because as I read it he "knew the family" and his car had been reported stolen and returned. Not much to go on, but even he was co-operative.

Now back to Lindsay. Usually police will advise the residents they are looking for Lindsay and not for any illegal drugs or porn on their computer and they will comply. It happens every day. So why is it there are so many people in McCleary that have made themselves unavailible and uncooperative? And why hasn't the LE pushed??

Is there a vigil tonight for Lindsay? How many people are there?
It sure seems to me that not a lot of towns people are interested like they are in other cases, such as Robert and Sandra and Nevaeh. It just seems so, maybe if you live there it doesn't, but being from the outside looking in, that's the way it looks to me.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: no rose colored glasses on August 02, 2009, 09:05:02 PM
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=5541.msg855570#msg855570

This is the very first post in Lindey's  thread started by Pink Angel.  Sometimes it is a good idea to go back from the start and read over things.  JMHO

I have read here from the beginning. The truth is, I never from the beginning thought she was a runaway.  I just haven't posted much here, and as thing have gotten tense, maybe I shouldn't be posting now. It is frustrating to see the thread go so far afield when not even the basic things have been done, IMO.
I never thought she was a runaway either, that just made no sense to me at all.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: JessStar on August 02, 2009, 09:05:15 PM
In the Idaho case, they were able to secure a warrant because a search dog hit on the neighbor's suburban.  Anyway, I agree with you on the searches- I'd like to know who did and didn't consent. However, keep in mind that the 4th amendment is there to protect citizens from unreasonable, but also unscrupulous government- such as those that would plant evidence. It happens. Google the name "fred zane." Zane was head of west virginia's crime lab. For 12 years he falsified dna reports to obtain convictions.  Add to that the apparent community distrust, and the thought by some that someone from law enforcement may even be involved in lindsey's disappearance, and you get a pretty reasoable reason why some residents may be reluctant to open their doors to unbridled searches. Indeed, you might be opening the door to the perp him/her self.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: MuffyBee on August 02, 2009, 09:08:00 PM
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=5541.msg855570#msg855570

This is the very first post in Lindey's  thread started by Pink Angel.  Sometimes it is a good idea to go back from the start and read over things.  JMHO

I have read here from the beginning. The truth is, I never from the beginning thought she was a runaway.  I just haven't posted much here, and as thing have gotten tense, maybe I shouldn't be posting now. It is frustrating to see the thread go so far afield when not even the basic things have been done, IMO.

Fanny, I can tell from your posts you are really feeling the pain of Lindsey's disappearance.  I posted the first post by pink angel, because it does say they had blood hounds out and they were putting fliers out and they were going door to door.  But I don't know just how really, really well they searched, because I wasn't there.  I know it's frustrating.  I would open my door to let le search, or my car to look for a child.  But some don't or won't without a warrant and for that it must be probable cause, which you know.  When you said why aren't LE "pushing" well, we know LE can't push too much or they get in a lot of trouble, because citizens have rights that are protected under the law, which we both know.  And it's hard when there is a child missing.  I hope Lindsey can be found.   ::MonkeyAngel::


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: AZSunny on August 02, 2009, 09:10:41 PM
Can I ask why we are discussing the decomp issue?  Is there a suggestion that JB was possibly capable of concealing a body in such a manner that it would be undetectable? Such as the way Gacy or Dahmer did?

I am not necessarily hung up on JB. But I am saying there are ways to conceal a body and I do not think it has been thoroughly investigated. I have questions in my mind if the cadaver dogs last week were even taken to the retention pond for the water system spill-off, much less the other obvious places.

By this time the townspeople should be in an uproar over Lindsay being still missing. Why are they not??

JessStar...a voice of reason!  There is in MY mind no way that JB was possibly capable of committing a murder and then concealing a body to this extent.  His mind does not reason that throughly!!

If you still want to research it, and find something we have may missed, go for it.  However, let's not let it be to the determint of all other good viable research that is going forward.    I am not sure what people are imagining as to the bad water smell.  It is an unpleasant order, but it is not permating the neighborhood.  We have frequent water flushes here when they open a new pipe, and it smells like sulfer when you hold a glass of water up to your nose, but the neighborhood certainly doesn't smell like that.  JMO 



Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Kat_Gram on August 02, 2009, 09:13:14 PM
I fell the same way about the searches going door to door.
There is a very small area between where she was last seen and her house.
I don't know why if LE came to the house doors and asked if they could look around the yard, crawl spaces etc specifically for her and had dogs with them, that a reasonable person would refuse.  We have different laws here in Canada and they do need probable cause to conduct a full blown search, but if they were just looking for Lindsey and found say drugs or stolen goods by happenstance, could any resulting charges be laid ?


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: mamacrazy30 on August 02, 2009, 09:14:55 PM
Fannie Mae- you have identified the issue that is at the heart of the 4th amendment's protection against unreasonable searches and seizures. Our Supreme Court has held that refusal to allow a search cannot be used alone as evidence to support a search warrant. There must be something more- something that raises the probability that a search will uncover evidence of a crime. I agree- it can raise a red flag. But fortunately or unfortunately, that's the law.

I am aware of the 4th amendment issues, well aware. When a small child is missing in a small town, everyone is generally co-operative. We have seen this over and over. Even in Boise, where Robert Manwell is missing, they were able to get a search warrant on a "show cause" because as I read it he "knew the family" and his car had been reported stolen and returned. Not much to go on, but even he was co-operative.

Now back to Lindsay. Usually police will advise the residents they are looking for Lindsay and not for any illegal drugs or porn on their computer and they will comply. It happens every day. So why is it there are so many people in McCleary that have made themselves unavailible and uncooperative? And why hasn't the LE pushed??

Is there a vigil tonight for Lindsay? How many people are there?
It sure seems to me that not a lot of towns people are interested like they are in other cases, such as Robert and Sandra and Nevaeh. It just seems so, maybe if you live there it doesn't, but being from the outside looking in, that's the way it looks to me.
i feel ya'll there...it seems as though they just want it to go away...not that they don't care (who knows maybe they don't)  or maybe its just to big for them (town-folk, LE) to imagine??  at this point???  questions are all i have ::MonkeyConfused::


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: JessStar on August 02, 2009, 09:16:12 PM
The answer to your question KatGram is yes. If you consent to a search, and they find evidence that a crime has been committed, you're as good as charged.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on August 02, 2009, 09:18:01 PM
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=5541.msg855570#msg855570

This is the very first post in Lindey's  thread started by Pink Angel.  Sometimes it is a good idea to go back from the start and read over things.  JMHO

I have read here from the beginning. The truth is, I never from the beginning thought she was a runaway.  I just haven't posted much here, and as thing have gotten tense, maybe I shouldn't be posting now. It is frustrating to see the thread go so far afield when not even the basic things have been done, IMO.

Fanny, I can tell from your posts you are really feeling the pain of Lindsey's disappearance.  I posted the first post by pink angel, because it does say they had blood hounds out and they were putting fliers out and they were going door to door.  But I don't know just how really, really well they searched, because I wasn't there.  I know it's frustrating.  I would open my door to let le search, or my car to look for a child.  But some don't or won't without a warrant and for that it must be probable cause, which you know.  When you said why aren't LE "pushing" well, we know LE can't push too much or they get in a lot of trouble, because citizens have rights that are protected under the law, which we both know.  And it's hard when there is a child missing.  I hope Lindsey can be found.   ::MonkeyAngel::

Actually, I am feeling the pain of the LE in the McCleary PD and the Grays County Sheriff's Office having not done their jobs. I do know of what I speak. The hot light of suspicion would be on anyone not cooperating, and this is not happening in this case.

Oh well, the townsfolk were able to carry on with their 4th of July celebration and parade, even though there was a child missing within a stone's throw of their celebration, and within days of their fine celebration. The mayor and commissioners were waving from their perches on their convertible cars, and life goes on in McCleary. Where's Lindsay, and who cares anyway? Therein lays my pain.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: JessStar on August 02, 2009, 09:19:52 PM
I gotta go. Good Nite fellow monkeys. God Bless You Lindsey- may tomorrow bring us good news, and bring you back safely to your family. We all care- which is why we spend time here-and sometimes get overly emotional.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: no rose colored glasses on August 02, 2009, 09:21:33 PM
I gotta go. Good Nite fellow monkeys. God Bless You Lindsey- may tomorrow bring us good news, and bring you back safely to your family. We all care- which is why we spend time here-and sometimes get overly emotional.
Have a good night  ::MonkeyAngel::


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: MuffyBee on August 02, 2009, 09:23:56 PM
I gotta go. Good Nite fellow monkeys. God Bless You Lindsey- may tomorrow bring us good news, and bring you back safely to your family. We all care- which is why we spend time here-and sometimes get overly emotional.

Good night.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: A_News_Junkie_Monkey on August 02, 2009, 10:16:07 PM
Fannie Mae- you have identified the issue that is at the heart of the 4th amendment's protection against unreasonable searches and seizures. Our Supreme Court has held that refusal to allow a search cannot be used alone as evidence to support a search warrant. There must be something more- something that raises the probability that a search will uncover evidence of a crime. I agree- it can raise a red flag. But fortunately or unfortunately, that's the law.

Exactly - and refusing alone is not probable cause.  Fanny, I am not saying if it was my neighborhood I wouldn't let LE in my home - I would in a heartbeat.  I understand from an emotional point of view wanting everyone to be compliant, but LE can't demand entry and some might not be aware of the law.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Nut44x4 on August 02, 2009, 10:17:54 PM
For what it's worth:  I just got off the phone with a special weapons and tactics law enforcement officer with 15 years experience and he trains others in his field.   He said one of the first things that would be done in an investigation in a missing person's case like Lindsey's would be to rule out those closest to the victim.  They would be looked at first and looked at closely.  That makes sense to me. 

Yep...that is a given!


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on August 02, 2009, 10:28:02 PM
Fannie Mae- you have identified the issue that is at the heart of the 4th amendment's protection against unreasonable searches and seizures. Our Supreme Court has held that refusal to allow a search cannot be used alone as evidence to support a search warrant. There must be something more- something that raises the probability that a search will uncover evidence of a crime. I agree- it can raise a red flag. But fortunately or unfortunately, that's the law.

Exactly - and refusing alone is not probable cause.  Fanny, I am not saying if it was my neighborhood I wouldn't let LE in my home - I would in a heartbeat.  I understand from an emotional point of view wanting everyone to be compliant, but LE can't demand entry and some might not be aware of the law.

I see no evidence that the McCleary PD or the Grays County Sheriff's office ever even made the effort. Does it look like to you that they did?


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Kat_Gram on August 02, 2009, 10:28:07 PM
The answer to your question KatGram is yes. If you consent to a search, and they find evidence that a crime has been committed, you're as good as charged.
ty JessStar


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on August 02, 2009, 10:35:54 PM
The answer to your question KatGram is yes. If you consent to a search, and they find evidence that a crime has been committed, you're as good as charged.
ty JessStar

Except if the agreement is made before that they look they will only look for evidence of Lindsay, it can be done.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on August 02, 2009, 10:46:48 PM
The answer to your question KatGram is yes. If you consent to a search, and they find evidence that a crime has been committed, you're as good as charged.
ty JessStar

Except if the agreement is made before that they look they will only look for evidence of Lindsay, it can be done.

To clarify, oftentimes in these kinds of searches, they will take along a DA, or City Attorney, that will assure the residents that nothing else will be held against them if they will allow a search. A person can call their own attorney to be present if this is the case. It happens every day.

I know the lawyer type can tell you otherwise, and quote the exact law and bible and verse. In a practical matter, things happen everyday that just go on and never get even brought to the surface. That is the matter of fact with LE, especially when a child that the LE really wants to find. Maybe they just don't want to find her. It appears that way to me for many reasons. JMO


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Tamikosmom on August 02, 2009, 10:47:11 PM
Fannie Mae- you have identified the issue that is at the heart of the 4th amendment's protection against unreasonable searches and seizures. Our Supreme Court has held that refusal to allow a search cannot be used alone as evidence to support a search warrant. There must be something more- something that raises the probability that a search will uncover evidence of a crime. I agree- it can raise a red flag. But fortunately or unfortunately, that's the law.

Exactly - and refusing alone is not probable cause.  Fanny, I am not saying if it was my neighborhood I wouldn't let LE in my home - I would in a heartbeat.  I understand from an emotional point of view wanting everyone to be compliant, but LE can't demand entry and some might not be aware of the law.

I see no evidence that the McCleary PD or the Grays County Sheriff's office ever even made the effort. Does it look like to you that they did?

I agree. 

 ::MonkeyNoNo::

Hopefully ... there is stuff going onbehind the scenes.

Good Night Fanny Mae!  Good Night Monkeys!

Janet
7:45 PM PT


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: A_News_Junkie_Monkey on August 02, 2009, 10:48:19 PM
Fannie Mae- you have identified the issue that is at the heart of the 4th amendment's protection against unreasonable searches and seizures. Our Supreme Court has held that refusal to allow a search cannot be used alone as evidence to support a search warrant. There must be something more- something that raises the probability that a search will uncover evidence of a crime. I agree- it can raise a red flag. But fortunately or unfortunately, that's the law.

Exactly - and refusing alone is not probable cause.  Fanny, I am not saying if it was my neighborhood I wouldn't let LE in my home - I would in a heartbeat.  I understand from an emotional point of view wanting everyone to be compliant, but LE can't demand entry and some might not be aware of the law.

I see no evidence that the McCleary PD or the Grays County Sheriff's office ever even made the effort. Does it look like to you that they did?

Just that they went door to door asking and did the same again last week according to news reports.  I am 3000 miles away, so I can only go on the news reports.  I know they only have three officers and 6 cop cars on their force.  I have seen things brought forward that have my hinky meter wondering if LE or someone close to them is involved or involved after the fact, but otherwise - I know only what I have read, no first hand knowledge.  I know someone who has spoken to them and they have said they felt their information was taken serious and with due respect. 
Unfortunately, NG and Gretta are not there on the ground - then we might have more news footage showing if the streets are bare, being searched or what.  I know it is hard to feel so deeply that more can and should be done - I am not trying to aggravate you, but the law is the law.  People smoke pot - and they are more worried about getting hauled in for their stash than a child.  There are reasons other than guilt for people to refuse a search.  Do I personally, morally agree that there is anything more important than the safety of child - hell no.  But, I will try my best not to let my frustration with the case from keeping me from getting into spats with fellow monkeys who really just want what I want - Lindsay found and brought home. 
In the end this and all we do is not about being right - it is about the children.  Good night, fellow monkeys.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on August 02, 2009, 10:49:12 PM
And to clarify on the Boise case, the dog hit on the Suburban in the DRIVEWAY on Mr. Wallis' property, AFTER the search warrant was issued. IIRC


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: A_News_Junkie_Monkey on August 02, 2009, 10:50:58 PM
The answer to your question KatGram is yes. If you consent to a search, and they find evidence that a crime has been committed, you're as good as charged.
ty JessStar

Except if the agreement is made before that they look they will only look for evidence of Lindsay, it can be done.

To clarify, oftentimes in these kinds of searches, they will take along a DA, or City Attorney, that will assure the residents that nothing else will be held against them if they will allow a search. A person can call their own attorney to be present if this is the case. It happens every day.

I know the lawyer type can tell you otherwise, and quote the exact law and bible and verse. In a practical matter, things happen everyday that just go on and never get even brought to the surface. That is the matter of fact with LE, especially when a child that the LE really wants to find. Maybe they just don't want to find her. It appears that way to me for many reasons. JMO

I have never heard of the DA or SA or a city attorney going door to door offering immunity to search for one crime only.  Can you link me to some cases of this? 


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on August 02, 2009, 10:55:16 PM
Fannie Mae- you have identified the issue that is at the heart of the 4th amendment's protection against unreasonable searches and seizures. Our Supreme Court has held that refusal to allow a search cannot be used alone as evidence to support a search warrant. There must be something more- something that raises the probability that a search will uncover evidence of a crime. I agree- it can raise a red flag. But fortunately or unfortunately, that's the law.

Exactly - and refusing alone is not probable cause.  Fanny, I am not saying if it was my neighborhood I wouldn't let LE in my home - I would in a heartbeat.  I understand from an emotional point of view wanting everyone to be compliant, but LE can't demand entry and some might not be aware of the law.

I see no evidence that the McCleary PD or the Grays County Sheriff's office ever even made the effort. Does it look like to you that they did?

Just that they went door to door asking and did the same again last week according to news reports.  I am 3000 miles away, so I can only go on the news reports.  I know they only have three officers and 6 cop cars on their force.  I have seen things brought forward that have my hinky meter wondering if LE or someone close to them is involved or involved after the fact, but otherwise - I know only what I have read, no first hand knowledge.  I know someone who has spoken to them and they have said they felt their information was taken serious and with due respect. 
Unfortunately, NG and Gretta are not there on the ground - then we might have more news footage showing if the streets are bare, being searched or what.  I know it is hard to feel so deeply that more can and should be done - I am not trying to aggravate you, but the law is the law.  People smoke pot - and they are more worried about getting hauled in for their stash than a child.  There are reasons other than guilt for people to refuse a search.  Do I personally, morally agree that there is anything more important than the safety of child - hell no.  But, I will try my best not to let my frustration with the case from keeping me from getting into spats with fellow monkeys who really just want what I want - Lindsay found and brought home. 
In the end this and all we do is not about being right - it is about the children.  Good night, fellow monkeys.

I did not think I was getting into "spats with fellow monkeys." I thought I was stating my opinion as I see it. You know me and who I am.  I am not trying to be right. I am trying to figure out why Lindsay is not home in her bed right now. I just don't feel that the basics have been done here, and I feel that life is going on like Lindsay was never there.

Do I care?? You bet. Am I trying to make enemies, NO! I just think the investigation of her being missing and probably dead has gone far afield, and wonder why the right questions have not been demanded from the right people.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on August 02, 2009, 10:58:14 PM
The answer to your question KatGram is yes. If you consent to a search, and they find evidence that a crime has been committed, you're as good as charged.
ty JessStar

Except if the agreement is made before that they look they will only look for evidence of Lindsay, it can be done.

To clarify, oftentimes in these kinds of searches, they will take along a DA, or City Attorney, that will assure the residents that nothing else will be held against them if they will allow a search. A person can call their own attorney to be present if this is the case. It happens every day.

I know the lawyer type can tell you otherwise, and quote the exact law and bible and verse. In a practical matter, things happen everyday that just go on and never get even brought to the surface. That is the matter of fact with LE, especially when a child that the LE really wants to find. Maybe they just don't want to find her. It appears that way to me for many reasons. JMO

I have never heard of the DA or SA or a city attorney going door to door offering immunity to search for one crime only.  Can you link me to some cases of this? 

I can tell you that I have personal knowledge of the DA and his assistant going out on criminal cases when they needed certain info and assisting in the investigation with certain agreements being made in advance. If I gave you a link, I would have to kill you.  ::MonkeyDevil2::


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Tamikosmom on August 02, 2009, 11:05:00 PM
Fannie Mae- you have identified the issue that is at the heart of the 4th amendment's protection against unreasonable searches and seizures. Our Supreme Court has held that refusal to allow a search cannot be used alone as evidence to support a search warrant. There must be something more- something that raises the probability that a search will uncover evidence of a crime. I agree- it can raise a red flag. But fortunately or unfortunately, that's the law.

Exactly - and refusing alone is not probable cause.  Fanny, I am not saying if it was my neighborhood I wouldn't let LE in my home - I would in a heartbeat.  I understand from an emotional point of view wanting everyone to be compliant, but LE can't demand entry and some might not be aware of the law.

I see no evidence that the McCleary PD or the Grays County Sheriff's office ever even made the effort. Does it look like to you that they did?

Just that they went door to door asking and did the same again last week according to news reports.  I am 3000 miles away, so I can only go on the news reports.  I know they only have three officers and 6 cop cars on their force.  I have seen things brought forward that have my hinky meter wondering if LE or someone close to them is involved or involved after the fact, but otherwise - I know only what I have read, no first hand knowledge.  I know someone who has spoken to them and they have said they felt their information was taken serious and with due respect. 
Unfortunately, NG and Gretta are not there on the ground - then we might have more news footage showing if the streets are bare, being searched or what.  I know it is hard to feel so deeply that more can and should be done - I am not trying to aggravate you, but the law is the law.  People smoke pot - and they are more worried about getting hauled in for their stash than a child.  There are reasons other than guilt for people to refuse a search.  Do I personally, morally agree that there is anything more important than the safety of child - hell no.  But, I will try my best not to let my frustration with the case from keeping me from getting into spats with fellow monkeys who really just want what I want - Lindsay found and brought home. 
In the end this and all we do is not about being right - it is about the children.  Good night, fellow monkeys.

I did not think I was getting into "spats with fellow monkeys." I thought I was stating my opinion as I see it. You know me and who I am.  I am not trying to be right. I am trying to figure out why Lindsay is not home in her bed right now. I just don't feel that the basics have been done here, and I feel that life is going on like Lindsay was never there.

Do I care?? You bet. Am I trying to make enemies, NO! I just think the investigation of her being missing and probably dead has gone far afield, and wonder why the right questions have not been demanded from the right people.

 ::MonkeyDance::


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Rob on August 02, 2009, 11:53:51 PM
Rob ... in the process of elimination ... I cannot comprehend why ANYBODY would not cooperate with authorities in regards to questioning and searching of property when it is considered a little girl is missing.

If I lived in McCleary and ... the authorities arrived at my door and requested to search my residence and property.  I would step aside and ... instruct them to go for it!

I do not believe for a second if those residence and properties between 5th on Maple and the Baum residence have not been search ... it is because residents would not give permission.

Janet
BUMPED

Janet, I don't ignore your posts. It's just that we have known each other on three boards for so long that I think you probably know that I am a Constitutionalist, (and where I stand on a blanket wide search), as are you. I know that you are Canadian and live your own personal life as if you had these same rights and guarantees. It's part of God's plan for man and woman to be free and those rights are guaranteed by God, not a government. These right are universal and not unique to only America.

I want Lindsey found, just as everyone else does. And just as you may not comprehend why anyone may or may not have a valid or invalid reason for opening their doors - I understand... you're not a criminal. There are many others that are not involved with Lindsey's disappearance, but maybe have a pot farm in the basement or betting slips all over the living room from a bookmaking operation.

All that said, we can't go kicking in doors - that's Germany 1934, Poland 1939, Czechoslovakia 1939-40... we don't allow that and live with-in the Framework. The question is - where is the balance? When a child is missing there needs to be some understanding that a pot farmer is not going to face charges if he cooperates, same for the bookmaker. The LE asked for cooperation and have received a fair amount, but not a total amount, given the article stating that the have went back and talked to people missed the first time through.

I would love to see all the residences open their doors and from what I have read many have and allowed their property to be searched.

BTW - when we don't live with-in the Framework - Japanese interment camps are a possibility under the guise of a common good. I'm sure you understand what I am saying.



Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Tamikosmom on August 03, 2009, 12:00:15 AM
Tamikosmom, doubledecker, Treehouse, Rob, KaraK and 8 Guests are viewing this topic.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Tamikosmom on August 03, 2009, 12:06:50 AM
Rob

I never implied that any constitutional rights should be violated.  I just wanted to know if an attempt was made by LE to get permission from each resident in that two block stretch to search homes and property.  I believe that maybe Lindsey had an encounter on that stretch ... not necessarily a homeowner and ... her body is lying on one of these properties out of sight ... maybe covered with debris or foilage.

Janet



Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Rob on August 03, 2009, 12:12:48 AM
Rob

I never implied that any constitutional rights should be violated.  I just wanted to know if an attempt was made by LE to get permission from each resident in that two block stretch to search homes and property.  I believe that maybe Lindsey had an encounter on that stretch ... not necessarily a homeowner and ... her body is lying on one of these properties out of sight ... maybe covered with debris or foilage.

Janet



highly doubtful her body is lying around one of these homes. The dogs would have pulled a handler directly to it. A dog leading a handler to a property is probably cause for a search... as in a drug bust where drugs are concealed with in a vehicle.

That's different then a body being concealed in a home or in a freezer. A dog would probably have a hard time smelling a cadaver in a freezer in a basement - and likewise hidden in a house unless the windows were open or you had a very very good dog. However, a cadaver dog can smell decaying flesh for quite some distance - and - it's a considerable factor that even hidden in a house - a body could be detected by a dog in the vicinity.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Treehouse on August 03, 2009, 12:13:53 AM
Tamikosmom, doubledecker, Treehouse, Rob, KaraK and 8 Guests are viewing this topic.

Treehouse, Rob, Gizzie, Tamikosmom, doubledecker and 7 Guests are viewing this topic.

Hello all.

I confess to being a binge monkey these days. Work prevents me from following daily, so when I get a stretch of time, I go back and read for hours. Seldom do I catch up enough to comment.

Today is the first that I've read about Lindsey. She is now in my thoughts and prayers.

And now, it is time to turn my thoughts to work again.

Have a good evening.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: A_News_Junkie_Monkey on August 03, 2009, 12:14:19 AM
Tamikosmom, doubledecker, Treehouse, Rob, KaraK and 8 Guests are viewing this topic.


What is the point?  Am I missing something?  Or is this a hi?

On the issue of folks refusing to allow a search, it is not always illegal activity that causes people to say no.  Sometime they are worried their house is so dirty that CPS will be called in - to determine the fitness of the home.  Sometimes they have 14 cats and don't want the city telling them how many cats are too many.  Some just don't want to get involved.  I am not saying that is right, but it is what it is - it is their right by law. 
Is there reason to believe that the newspapers in that area are reporting door to door and going back to ask ones who were missed if they can look for the child - is there reason to believe they are reporting this in error on purpose?


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Tamikosmom on August 03, 2009, 12:15:51 AM
Rob

I never implied that any constitutional rights should be violated.  I just wanted to know if an attempt was made by LE to get permission from each resident in that two block stretch to search homes and property.  I believe that maybe Lindsey had an encounter on that stretch ... not necessarily a homeowner and ... her body is lying on one of these properties out of sight ... maybe covered with debris or foilage.

Janet



highly doubtful her body is lying around one of these homes. The dogs would have pulled a handler directly to it. A dog leading a handler to a property is probably cause for a search... as in a drug bust where drugs are concealed with in a vehicle.

That's different then a body being concealed in a home or in a freezer. A dog would probably have a hard time smelling a cadaver in a freezer in a basement - and likewise hidden in a house unless the windows were open or you had a very very good dog. However, a cadaver dog can smell decaying flesh for quite some distance - and - it's a considerable factor that even hidden in a house - a body could be detected by a dog in the vicinity.

Rob

That is what I want to know.  Has those properties been searched by LE ... by dogs.

Janet


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Tamikosmom on August 03, 2009, 12:21:06 AM
Think about precious little Jessica Lunsford.  Stuffed alive in a plastic bag ... buried less than 2 feet from the surface ... a stone throw from her home ... from the bedroom where she was abducted.  She was not recovered for weeks and ... it was suspicion that brought LE back to that trailer.  The first time LE was there ... it was determined she was still alive in a back room.  No search was done at that time.

Janet


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on August 03, 2009, 12:23:27 AM
I see KaraK is in the rafters watching, so I am wondering if she can answer any of our questions? I do not see the point of pointing out who each of the posters are so I will not. I have just been reading along and know that some think I am wrong for my stance on the McCleary PD and the Grays County Sheriff's office. I wonder if Karak can answer my questions.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Tamikosmom on August 03, 2009, 12:23:31 AM
DD

I speculate IF something happened to Lindsey at the hands of her brother ... it was completely unplanned.  I am not condoning but ... it could have been possibly provoked and ... he acted impulsively.  At twelve years old ... I believe this young man would have panicked and ... bolted.  In all probability ... no attempt or ... very little attempt at hiding his sister's body.  Maybe Lindsey was covered with debris or foilage.

I believe IF the above scenario took place ... Lindsey will be found in an out-of-sight spot on one of the properties in that two block radius.

Sheriff Scott stated in the search the other day ... that they were calling on neighbours again and requestioning them as well as neighbours who had yet to be contacted.  It does not appear that those properties were search to any extent ... only rural areas.

Also ... when it is considered what a resident said about Josh's behavior at that first vigil in regards to attempting to solicit money for the purchase of fireworks and ... KaraK's words about Josh's behavior at a search effort regarding Josh's only interest was in arranging a playdate with her son ... it appears that he does not comprehend that seriousness of the situation.  A lack of conscience can account for the fact there is no remorse.

DD ... I am only speculating.  Lindsey Baum is missing and ... something happened to her. 

Janet


BUMPED


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Tamikosmom on August 03, 2009, 12:24:18 AM
The flushing of the water and treatment systems could have masked the initial strench of body decomposition body.  However ... after over a month ... would there still be a decomposition order?

What if Lindsey's remains were not disposed of but ... are out of sight ... maybe covered with debris or foilage.  Maybe her remains are lying not far from where she was last observed two blocks from home by a family friend who was driving to work.  Maybe a thorough search with the dogs should be conducted by authorities on ALL properties in that two block stretch.

Remember Jessica Lundsford.  This little girl's remains were found on property within a stone throw from her home ... from the bed she was abducted from. 

Janet

+++++++

McCleary Water / Wastewater manages both the water system from the wells into homes and businesses and the sewer system that takes wastewater to the treatment plant.

WATER SYSTEM FLUSHING

June 22nd through July 2nd


The City crew will be flushing the water system using various fire hydrants around town, click on the link below to read the entire Public Notice and what to do in your area when the flushing takes place.

Hydrant flushing notice 

Wastewater Treatment

Water System

http://www.cityofmccleary.com/index.asp?Type=B_BASIC&SEC={CAF3B3FA-696A-4B0F-B441-C68ADF931009}


BUMPED


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Tamikosmom on August 03, 2009, 12:24:50 AM
DD

When all the underlying dynamic that has been revealed/alleged encompassing Josh Baum and ... then when you consider the argument that must of been so heated that it dictated  intervention by a neighbour ... logic dictates that Lindsey's brother should not be overlooked as a person of interest.  Hey ... maybe he has not been overlooked but ... the dots cannot be connected.  Think about the six searches conducted at the creek within days following Lindsey's disappearance.  Think about the recent search with the dogs.

I can only speculate on a possible scenerio and ... it involve a chance meeting between  Lindsey and a still angry Josh within two block from their home ... a chance meeting following Lindsey being observed at FiftH and Maple by a neighbor driving to work.  Then somewhere a short distance off the beaten track ... things go out of hand.   

Consideing Melissa Baum passed a lie detector test ... I do not believe she has any first hand knowledge of wrongdoing.

I saw a photo of Josh Baum at the second vigil a few nights ago.  He is a good size.

Again ... I am not accusing but ... when what is known about Josh and Lindsey's relationship that appears to reach beyond normal sibling rivalry ... I believe that her brother should not be overlooked as a person of interest.

Janet



BUMPED


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Tamikosmom on August 03, 2009, 12:25:17 AM
Again ... it would be interesting to know what time Josh Baum got home on the evening of June 26, 2009.  Did he go home as the neighbour who intervened in the argument had instructed?  If he was at home with Mom prior to Lindsey's leaving the Kampen resident between 9:15 PM and 9:30 PM then this wannabe detective's speculation will go in another direction.

Janet


BUMPED


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Tamikosmom on August 03, 2009, 12:27:44 AM
Kara

what time did Josh Baum arrive home on the evening that his sister went missing.

Thanks

Janet


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: pink angel on August 03, 2009, 12:45:15 AM
Janet,

KaraK may be lurking and reading but she has made a personal decision not to post on any more forums regarding Lindsey. So sadly, I doubt your question(s) will be answered unless another local can answer them or someone can get Sheriff Scott on the line.    ::MonkeyWink::


http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/candles.cfm?l=eng&gi=FLB

Lighting a candle and saying a prayer for Lindsey. May she found soon. It's been FAR too long.

 ::MonkeyAngel::


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Tamikosmom on August 03, 2009, 12:48:04 AM
Thank you pink angel.

Good Night All.

Janet
9:50 PM PT


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on August 03, 2009, 12:49:08 AM
ANJ, do you only see thing in black or white, and think there are no shades of grey? The law says one thing, but do you not think there is ever a case of a little fudging either way? I feel that you must study law, and know how it is written. I respect that. But in reality, there really are some shades of grey.

I am offended when someone makes a blanket statement and then leaves and goes off to another thread or just logs off. I am not speaking of you in this case, ANJ. Like I said before, you know me and knows who I am and why I feel the way I do. Basicially, I am a constitutionalist too. But I am a realist, and know that the constitution is streched way out of shape frequently. Sometimes for the good, sometimes for the worst. Lately it seems, it has really been way for the worst.

It still does not change the fact the the LE have not done their homework in Lindsay being missing for this long. And I really want to know why not.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on August 03, 2009, 12:56:44 AM
As usual, when I post here, posters just leave until I log off, and my questions are not answered. I think they are questions that are at the center of Lindsay being gone this long. I will leave you all alone to post in peace and I will read along and lurk, as it seems I have nothing to offer, or at least nothing that most feel is important or worth hearing.

I have lit a candle for Lindsay and I will continue to do so daily. I hope she is found soon, and this nightmare in McCleary can be over. I pray to God it is soon. We are all really on the same side. We just want Lindsay found.   ::MonkeyAngel::


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: KaraK on August 03, 2009, 01:19:46 AM
I see KaraK is in the rafters watching, so I am wondering if she can answer any of our questions? I do not see the point of pointing out who each of the posters are so I will not. I have just been reading along and know that some think I am wrong for my stance on the McCleary PD and the Grays County Sheriff's office. I wonder if Karak can answer my questions.


I would be happy to answer some questions if I can - I don't get on much we have a lot going on or at least are trying to get a lot of things going on and done but if you wouldn't mind quoting or reposting your questions I will try to check back and answer as many as I can...



Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on August 03, 2009, 01:29:24 AM
I see KaraK is in the rafters watching, so I am wondering if she can answer any of our questions? I do not see the point of pointing out who each of the posters are so I will not. I have just been reading along and know that some think I am wrong for my stance on the McCleary PD and the Grays County Sheriff's office. I wonder if Karak can answer my questions.


I would be happy to answer some questions if I can - I don't get on much we have a lot going on or at least are trying to get a lot of things going on and done but if you wouldn't mind quoting or reposting your questions I will try to check back and answer as many as I can...



I would like to know if as a local, you feel that everything possible has been done by the McCleary PD and the Grays Country Sheriff's Office?

I would also like to know if you feel that this latest search with cadaver dogs covered the area that REALLY needed to be searched, and that people along Lindsay's route were be cooperative?

Do you know if the King County Cadaver dogs were taken to the pond/spill over where the water system drains, and were they taken out in boats?

Have you seen any presence of FBI or State type officials in town?

Do you feel that LE of any kind are doing all they can to find Lindsay?

Have you heard of people in the search area refusing to let LE search their property, and what has the LE reaction been to that?

What do you think really happened to Lindsay that night?

I know it is a lot of questions, and I have never posted when you have been here. I only have the best intentions for Lindsay and want her found one way or the other.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Tracygirl on August 03, 2009, 02:32:49 AM
Tamikosmom
I have not set on a specific theory, there are too many directions this case can go in and since I am not privy to the details that is known by LE, I cannot come out and say someone did this or should be a person of interest. In my opinion it takes more then a comment, a hunch or even a theory but logic and facts. As internet posters who are not on the ground talking to people, searching, conducting questioning, I don't know if we can truly ever know. However if you want to know what my hunch is, I think it is someone who is known to the area, maybe not specifically the neighborhood. I think Lindsey knew this person or has seen this person and was no longer a stranger to her. It is someone who is between  20-45 and maybe is known to act a little younger then what his age may tell. I think it is a sexually motivated crime and this person has gotten away with molestation before and has now moved on to killing. I think the kylie case may have a link to this one. Sadly, I do not believe she is alive and we will find her in water or in the forest areas someday. 

I think it is important to keep in mind Josh has a disability which if you knew about autism it makes it even more unlikely he could do this and not break. Obviously you believe otherwise, that is ok, we don't have to agree. Probably neither one of us is right and it will be someone or something we hadn't even thought of or knew of




Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: pink angel on August 03, 2009, 02:47:08 AM
I see KaraK is in the rafters watching, so I am wondering if she can answer any of our questions? I do not see the point of pointing out who each of the posters are so I will not. I have just been reading along and know that some think I am wrong for my stance on the McCleary PD and the Grays County Sheriff's office. I wonder if Karak can answer my questions.


I would be happy to answer some questions if I can - I don't get on much we have a lot going on or at least are trying to get a lot of things going on and done but if you wouldn't mind quoting or reposting your questions I will try to check back and answer as many as I can...



I spoke to soon. Nice to see you KaraK. Thank you for answering some questions. It's most appreciated. I know you have been busy. Any luck with getting a search center set up and has Melissa contacted TES yet to help search for Lindsey?


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: pink angel on August 03, 2009, 02:50:58 AM
I see KaraK is in the rafters watching, so I am wondering if she can answer any of our questions? I do not see the point of pointing out who each of the posters are so I will not. I have just been reading along and know that some think I am wrong for my stance on the McCleary PD and the Grays County Sheriff's office. I wonder if Karak can answer my questions.


I would be happy to answer some questions if I can - I don't get on much we have a lot going on or at least are trying to get a lot of things going on and done but if you wouldn't mind quoting or reposting your questions I will try to check back and answer as many as I can...



I spoke to soon. Nice to see you KaraK. Thank you for answering some questions. It's most appreciated. I know you have been busy. Any luck with getting a search center set up and has Melissa contacted TES yet to help search for Lindsey?

I am sorry Janet, for speaking for KaraK and KaraK, I am sorry for speaking for you. You did say earlier though you were not going to be posting anymore. I was just repeating what I believed to be true.

It's nice to see you and thank you in advance for all that you are doing for Lindsey. If we monkeys can help in anyway, don't hesitate to ask.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: A_News_Junkie_Monkey on August 03, 2009, 03:49:50 AM
ANJ, do you only see thing in black or white, and think there are no shades of grey? The law says one thing, but do you not think there is ever a case of a little fudging either way? I feel that you must study law, and know how it is written. I respect that. But in reality, there really are some shades of grey.

I am offended when someone makes a blanket statement and then leaves and goes off to another thread or just logs off. I am not speaking of you in this case, ANJ. Like I said before, you know me and knows who I am and why I feel the way I do. Basicially, I am a constitutionalist too. But I am a realist, and know that the constitution is streched way out of shape frequently. Sometimes for the good, sometimes for the worst. Lately it seems, it has really been way for the worst.

It still does not change the fact the the LE have not done their homework in Lindsay being missing for this long. And I really want to know why not.

Fanny- orginally, I was not going to reply to this comment, but I have changed my mind. 
Am I black and white - in part, yes.  But I am so much more than just black and white.  You imply I know you -- I know you from this board and a few emails we have exchanged but I have never met you or spoke with via phone - so no, I don't know you and you don't know me if you think I can be summed up as black and white.
Back to am I black and white - as I said, yes in part.  I am also open minded - I will look in the box, outside the box, under the box and 3000 miles away from the box.  I am intuitive - and that is certainly not black and white.  Yes, I love law, medicine, psychology and an array of topics.  I could go on, but I will spare the board. 
However, it is the black and white in dealing with an investigation that keeps a case from being a mistrial or a not guilty when a guilty verdict was in order.  I want LE to do all searches by the books, because that will insure justice for Lindsay.  It is those times when they 'fudge' and enter into the grey when justice is compromised most, IMHO.
I think you might want to look in the mirror about being black and white - when I simply tried to bring the constitutional issue up as many were upset that doors haven't been broken down in the search - you responded to me this way: 
I wrote:  Can I add, I see a bunch of posters wanting every home searched, but the 4th amendment to the US Constitution prevents that while guarding citizens rights to and guards against unreasonable searches and seizures.  They can't just enter all the homes without just cause.
You replied: Well shoot. Let's just quit looking for Lindsay. Let's go back to looking up every SO from McCleary to Timbuctu!
I also saw where you took part of my post out of context -
You said:  I did not think I was getting into "spats with fellow monkeys."  http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=5790.620
I was not referring to you personally or anyone.  I was referring to the tone that was on the board today.  Monkeys against monkeys because of differing theories.  I have been reading all the different points of view - seeing many entertain lots out of their comfort or black and white zone and asking questions to try to see the other point of view.  On some of it, I see I bunch of bumped posts I have already read - but nothing new or overwhelmingly convincing - but I remain open to all the theories being tossed out.  What I do hate to see is tension getting in the way of respectful discussion of the case.  On that, I am black and white - I like when we all work together. 
More than I intended to post - and my email is in my profile so you or anyone who wants to discuss this more with me can send me a note, but lets get back to the news on Lindsay.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: KaraK on August 03, 2009, 04:33:53 AM


Pink Angel: No worries - I did say I wouldn't be posting because things are busy and I've just not had the time - not to mention that sometimes it is just a bit too difficult to read some opinions and some theories that people have....
 
As for TES MB did contact them and we are getting some information to them as we speak to see if they are willing to come out and help. Ultimately I think that may end up being up to LE. I am not sure though. If they come out then that is all that we will need to get the center active. We are also waiting to see if LRCF or someone through KKF is able to come out as well and get the ball rolling on some searches. Keep your fingers crossed for us that something works out in this area as well...

Fanny Mae:
I have a bit of trouble answering a few of these questions for several reasons but I’ll explain why that is then give you my “opinion” for whatever it is worth. Reason I have trouble with these questions is because there is a lot that we don’t know that has and continues to be done so our opinions are really just based on a partial side of a story but also on emotion as well (does that make sense?)…. We don't get to see first hand a lot of what takes place in Lindsey's search and because nothing has panned out we have No new news outside of what we had 2 weeks ago.

I as well as Lindsey’s family wish that there were still regular and large search parties being sent out daily - which we are trying to make happen- because no matter who reads this we’ve never been shy about the fact that we think searches ended WAY too early on- I also wish that every home had been actually searched in all of McCleary but I know even though this is a small town that this is far easier said then done. You read about little Robert Manwill from Boise and you hear about a 1,000 searchers scouring around looking for clues and that’s not the reality of it here – we are definitely not equipped with numbers like a lot of places are. - Outside of that I think I am really biased because Lindsey's not home yet so until she is there will always be that feeling that more could be being done...

I know that this is top priority for GHCS (though they are not the only agency involved) and that there is a TON of hard work and hours being put into and dedicated to nothing but finding Lindsey and finding out what happened to her as well as following leads etc but for good reason LE can't disclose everything that they are doing nor everything that they have done and because that is unfortunately something that is truly needed in cases like this - it leaves room for doubt to creep into your mind. I wish that they had more money and larger departments that could be dedicated to Lindsey but most of the men and women that they now have working on Lindsey’s case both MB and I believe are truly invested in finding her and would go to great lengths to bring her home..

I’ve not heard more then rumor of anyone denying access to their home when asked to search anywhere in town – I pray that they did not encounter that type of a response because regardless of “rights” there is a child missing and a reaction such as that is bound to at least temporarily redirect suspicion – which can waste valuable time that we don’t have to spare.

I will tell you that is not something that we would ever be informed officially about though because as you can guess there are many people who would take “searching” the property into their own hands. You pray that someone would leak that information for that reason alone but that’s just not how it works – or at least not yet.

Cadaver Dogs – They had cadaver dogs out early on just days after Lindsey went missing as well and at that time and the most recent searches they were taken to several varying locations. Where exactly searches were preformed we don’t know, not all locations were disclosed. I am personally not even aware of where the pond/spill over is located. If you know though please pass it along – if it is accessible we will make sure that it gets searched one way or another if it has not yet. Most water and wooded areas we have been told have at some point been searched though by both dogs and/or man.

What I know did not happen: She did NOT run away – she was not harmed by her mother or her brother – she was not harmed by anyone in my family

What I don’t think happened: I don’t think some lone random person happened to be driving through town at that exact moment in time that Lindsey was walking and was able to snatch her up without her making a sound or anyone seeing anything – I do believe that this is a possibility though…

What I think happened: I wish I knew exactly what happened but the 2 theories that I have are 1) someone she was familiar with and did not feel uncomfortable around (or someone who was at least familiar with her) happened to be driving by or outside their home when she was walking by and lured her in either using a pet, the offer of a ride or promise of something fun … or 2) Someone who does not necessarily live in town but is familiar with it had been watching her and bided their time waiting for the right opportunity for her to be alone

I agree with MB when she says that it feels like Lindsey is right under our noses and we can’t find her – that is exactly what it feels like and it is one of the most gut wrenching feelings you could ever imagine– at the end of the day it makes you want to shake people for “just going on with life” and start busting down doors all over McCleary and surrounding cities and pay attention to peoples “rights” later after Lindsey is found. Things don’t work that way, I know, but there are many a day when we wish that they did –


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: love4ever on August 03, 2009, 06:30:50 AM
Thank you so much for your post Kara, and please forgive us for the theories and speculations of those who are innocent. I live afar from you and yet feel the pain and grief in my own distant location. I first started here with the Sandra Cantu case and found myself becoming emotional at times, and here in Lindseys case, in which I also found myself getting frustrated because of the want and need too find her. That is what all of us monkey's go through here, there is no one to blame for having feelings of loss over a child, our own or of someone elses, or the immense feelings of frustrations because we can not figure things out. I do believe that is what has happened here at our SM site yesterday and early this morning. I do not believe for one moment that anyone here disgusts in the other. I believe we are feeling the tension of the days gone by in which we can not find Lindsey.
Furthermore, having you post what you did Kara, gives a sense of relief and comfort to us in a way that we feel connected to Lindsey. It is also comforting in the way you feel with us in all that has been posted. Thank you for understanding most of all.
For me and others afar, I think in distance, it seems harder because we can not be right there to help, or volunteer in a physical way in the search for Lindsey. However we have the SM sites in which each one of us has our own special unique ability in research, and thought, to provide in the search for Lindsey. We have a lot of people here with great intuitive insight into cases such as Lindsey, but somehow, someway the perp finds a way to  get by with their immoral acts. Eventually they will be found.

With that, I just want to extend my blessings to the family and the friends of the family of Lindsey. We are here to help as much as we can, and by Gods Grace lets pray and hope for the return of Lindsey, and soon!

~Love4ever~


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Sister on August 03, 2009, 08:00:45 AM
I couldn't have said it better Love.  We all want Lindsey to be brought home safe.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Leroy on August 03, 2009, 09:01:11 AM
I couldn't have said it better Love.  We all want Lindsey to be brought home safe.

I 2nd that!! 


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: JessStar on August 03, 2009, 09:52:41 AM
Good morning everyone. I hope today is the day Lindsey is found. KaraK- thank you for the info.  I wish I could be on the ground with you- but I live over 3000 miles away from you. With that distance, I can only be there with you in spirit. But I'm there because I care.

I hope I didn't offend anyone with my posts last night. I think it was Fanny Mae that commented about someone offending her. I just try to offer my legal insight into difficult questions-being a lawyer for 15 years, that's my "area of expertise.". I'll NEVER cut and run- I'll offer my legal pespective to anyone who wants to hear it.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: pink angel on August 03, 2009, 10:19:16 AM
I couldn't have said it better Love.  We all want Lindsey to be brought home safe.

I 2nd that!! 
3rd or 4th that. ::winks at Jess::


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: no rose colored glasses on August 03, 2009, 10:31:38 AM
I suppose with every case I ever followed the police did somethings in investigating where I or someone thought they were not doing the best investigating. But being that this is a small town and they hardly have any police, they probably did the best they could in the beginning, I don't know. And KaraK thanks for the info, and I also believe Lindsey knew the person.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Tamikosmom on August 03, 2009, 10:31:42 AM


Pink Angel: No worries - I did say I wouldn't be posting because things are busy and I've just not had the time - not to mention that sometimes it is just a bit too difficult to read some opinions and some theories that people have....
 
As for TES MB did contact them and we are getting some information to them as we speak to see if they are willing to come out and help. Ultimately I think that may end up being up to LE. I am not sure though. If they come out then that is all that we will need to get the center active. We are also waiting to see if LRCF or someone through KKF is able to come out as well and get the ball rolling on some searches. Keep your fingers crossed for us that something works out in this area as well...


Fanny Mae:
I have a bit of trouble answering a few of these questions for several reasons but I’ll explain why that is then give you my “opinion” for whatever it is worth. Reason I have trouble with these questions is because there is a lot that we don’t know that has and continues to be done so our opinions are really just based on a partial side of a story but also on emotion as well (does that make sense?)…. We don't get to see first hand a lot of what takes place in Lindsey's search and because nothing has panned out we have No new news outside of what we had 2 weeks ago.

I as well as Lindsey’s family wish that there were still regular and large search parties being sent out daily - which we are trying to make happen- because no matter who reads this we’ve never been shy about the fact that we think searches ended WAY too early on- I also wish that every home had been actually searched in all of McCleary but I know even though this is a small town that this is far easier said then done. You read about little Robert Manwill from Boise and you hear about a 1,000 searchers scouring around looking for clues and that’s not the reality of it here – we are definitely not equipped with numbers like a lot of places are. - Outside of that I think I am really biased because Lindsey's not home yet so until she is there will always be that feeling that more could be being done...

I know that this is top priority for GHCS (though they are not the only agency involved) and that there is a TON of hard work and hours being put into and dedicated to nothing but finding Lindsey and finding out what happened to her as well as following leads etc but for good reason LE can't disclose everything that they are doing nor everything that they have done and because that is unfortunately something that is truly needed in cases like this - it leaves room for doubt to creep into your mind. I wish that they had more money and larger departments that could be dedicated to Lindsey but most of the men and women that they now have working on Lindsey’s case both MB and I believe are truly invested in finding her and would go to great lengths to bring her home..

I’ve not heard more then rumor of anyone denying access to their home when asked to search anywhere in town – I pray that they did not encounter that type of a response because regardless of “rights” there is a child missing and a reaction such as that is bound to at least temporarily redirect suspicion – which can waste valuable time that we don’t have to spare.

I will tell you that is not something that we would ever be informed officially about though because as you can guess there are many people who would take “searching” the property into their own hands. You pray that someone would leak that information for that reason alone but that’s just not how it works – or at least not yet.

Cadaver Dogs – They had cadaver dogs out early on just days after Lindsey went missing as well and at that time and the most recent searches they were taken to several varying locations. Where exactly searches were preformed we don’t know, not all locations were disclosed. I am personally not even aware of where the pond/spill over is located. If you know though please pass it along – if it is accessible we will make sure that it gets searched one way or another if it has not yet. Most water and wooded areas we have been told have at some point been searched though by both dogs and/or man.

What I know did not happen: She did NOT run away – she was not harmed by her mother or her brother – she was not harmed by anyone in my family

What I don’t think happened: I don’t think some lone random person happened to be driving through town at that exact moment in time that Lindsey was walking and was able to snatch her up without her making a sound or anyone seeing anything – I do believe that this is a possibility though…

What I think happened: I wish I knew exactly what happened but the 2 theories that I have are 1) someone she was familiar with and did not feel uncomfortable around (or someone who was at least familiar with her) happened to be driving by or outside their home when she was walking by and lured her in either using a pet, the offer of a ride or promise of something fun … or 2) Someone who does not necessarily live in town but is familiar with it had been watching her and bided their time waiting for the right opportunity for her to be alone

I agree with MB when she says that it feels like Lindsey is right under our noses and we can’t find her – that is exactly what it feels like and it is one of the most gut wrenching feelings you could ever imagine– at the end of the day it makes you want to shake people for “just going on with life” and start busting down doors all over McCleary and surrounding cities and pay attention to peoples “rights” later after Lindsey is found. Things don’t work that way, I know, but there are many a day when we wish that they did –

Thanks Kara.

I would have appreciated if you had answered my question directly ... "What time did Josh Baum arrive home on the evening his sister disappeared?"

Janet

+++++++

1.  KAMPEN/WILLIAMS

Considering Scott Williams passed a polygraph and ... there was a confirmed sighting of Lindsey at Fifth on Maple at 9:30 PM which would coinside with the approximate time she left your home (9:15 PM - 9:30 PM) ... this would elminate you and Scott as persons of interest.


2.  MELISSA BAUM

Considering Melissa Baum pass a polygraph ... this would eliminate her as a person of interest that had anything to do with Lindsey's disappearance or direct knowledge at that point in time.


3.  JOSH BAUM

Considering your words ... I would assume that Josh Baum was home with his Mom at 9:30 PM ... the time of the last confirmed sighting of Lindsey.  In other words ... he went home as per the instructions of the family friend who intervened in the argument.  There was no possibility of chance encounter with Lindsey in that two block stretch between Fifth on Maple and home.  Am I correct with that assumption?




 


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Tamikosmom on August 03, 2009, 10:40:20 AM
I see KaraK is in the rafters watching, so I am wondering if she can answer any of our questions? I do not see the point of pointing out who each of the posters are so I will not. I have just been reading along and know that some think I am wrong for my stance on the McCleary PD and the Grays County Sheriff's office. I wonder if Karak can answer my questions.


I would be happy to answer some questions if I can - I don't get on much we have a lot going on or at least are trying to get a lot of things going on and done but if you wouldn't mind quoting or reposting your questions I will try to check back and answer as many as I can...



I spoke to soon. Nice to see you KaraK. Thank you for answering some questions. It's most appreciated. I know you have been busy. Any luck with getting a search center set up and has Melissa contacted TES yet to help search for Lindsey?

I am sorry Janet, for speaking for KaraK and KaraK, I am sorry for speaking for you. You did say earlier though you were not going to be posting anymore. I was just repeating what I believed to be true.

It's nice to see you and thank you in advance for all that you are doing for Lindsey. If we monkeys can help in anyway, don't hesitate to ask.


"I am done"?

Pink Angel ... I have posted those words a hundred time ... maybe more ... in the past four years on the Natalee Holloway forum.  Then I make myself a cuppa tea and ... keep posting.

I hope not too many Monkeys on the Lindsey Baum forum got too excited.

 ::MonkeyHaHa::

Pink Angel ... we do not have to be on the same page in our speculations.  None of us know the answers.  The important think is that a missing 10 year old little girl remains our foucs.

Good Morning All.

Janet
7:40 AM PT


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: crazybabyborg on August 03, 2009, 10:41:48 AM
I suppose with every case I ever followed the police did somethings in investigating where I or someone thought they were not doing the best investigating. But being that this is a small town and they hardly have any police, they probably did the best they could in the beginning, I don't know. And KaraK thanks for the info, and I also believe Lindsey knew the person.

Good Morning Monkeys!

I too wanted to add my hopes that Lindsey be found. Thanks for the information KaraK.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: no rose colored glasses on August 03, 2009, 10:43:42 AM
I'm going to ask these questions again, and hopefully someone local will answer. What is going on in the town now? Is it back to normal? Are neighbors suspicious of each other? Are kids out and about playing? What is the general thoughts about what happened to Lindsey?


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: pink angel on August 03, 2009, 10:51:58 AM
I see KaraK is in the rafters watching, so I am wondering if she can answer any of our questions? I do not see the point of pointing out who each of the posters are so I will not. I have just been reading along and know that some think I am wrong for my stance on the McCleary PD and the Grays County Sheriff's office. I wonder if Karak can answer my questions.


I would be happy to answer some questions if I can - I don't get on much we have a lot going on or at least are trying to get a lot of things going on and done but if you wouldn't mind quoting or reposting your questions I will try to check back and answer as many as I can...



I spoke to soon. Nice to see you KaraK. Thank you for answering some questions. It's most appreciated. I know you have been busy. Any luck with getting a search center set up and has Melissa contacted TES yet to help search for Lindsey?

I am sorry Janet, for speaking for KaraK and KaraK, I am sorry for speaking for you. You did say earlier though you were not going to be posting anymore. I was just repeating what I believed to be true.

It's nice to see you and thank you in advance for all that you are doing for Lindsey. If we monkeys can help in anyway, don't hesitate to ask.


"I am done"?

Pink Angel ... I have posted those words a hundred time ... maybe more ... in the past four years on the Natalee Holloway forum.  Then I make myself a cuppa tea and ... keep posting.

I hope not too many Monkeys on the Lindsey Baum forum got too excited.

 ::MonkeyHaHa::

Pink Angel ... we do not have to be on the same page in our speculations.  None of us know the answers.  The important think is that a missing 10 year old little girl remains our foucs.

Good Morning All.

Janet
7:40 AM PT

I wasn't talking about you saying you were not posting anymore, I was talking about KaraK, in the above posts.

She had said earlier that she was concerned about what the kids were reading and she was busy setting up a search center and wouldn't be posting on anymore blogs. I answered for her, when you asked her a question. I shouldn't have done that. That is why I said I was sorry.

To you for speaking for Kara and to Kara for speaking for her.



Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: pink angel on August 03, 2009, 10:53:24 AM
p.s. Good morning all. :)


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: no rose colored glasses on August 03, 2009, 10:54:01 AM
p.s. Good morning all. :)
Good Morning  ::MonkeyCool::


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Leroy on August 03, 2009, 11:01:44 AM
p.s. Good morning all. :)

Good Morning Pink!  (do you ever sleep....lol)


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: pink angel on August 03, 2009, 11:04:45 AM
p.s. Good morning all. :)

Good Morning Pink!  (do you ever sleep....lol)

I try. As of late, not so much.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Tamikosmom on August 03, 2009, 11:10:38 AM
THE TRACKING DOGS

Why was Lindsey's scent not picked up by these dogs shortly following her disappearance.  Think about it ... the Maple Street route was taken by Lindsey both going to and coming from the Kampen/Williams residence.

Something is not right.

 ::MonkeyNoNo::

Janet

++++++


KOMO News - June 28, 2009

A wide-ranging search was launched early Saturday in the town and the surrounding forests. The town was criss-crossed three times, but not a trace of Lindsey has been found. Even bloodhounds failed to pick up her scent.

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/49383897.html


The Daily World - July 2, 2009

Scott said authorities have run into several dead ends with almost no signs of the 4-foot-9, brown-haired girl, who was last spotted wearing a blue pullover shirt and blue jeans.

“I don’t know anything more than I knew Saturday afternoon,” he said, “but I’m not willing to admit that I know anything less.”

Scott said bloodhounds traced the route Lindsey took early on from the friend’s house to her own home, but didn’t find any scent. And in places where Lindsey once played — parks and by the creek — Lindsey’s scent has been vanishing.

The loss of scent could be a combination of factors — the heat on the sidewalk could have dissipated it for instance, he said.

http://**/articles/2009/07/02/local_news/doc4a4cf43c1b1dd881132403.txt


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Leroy on August 03, 2009, 11:18:45 AM
Janet - I have wondered that from the beginning....You would think the dogs would have picked up her scent somewhere beyond Kara's yard...


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: AZSunny on August 03, 2009, 11:23:30 AM
THE TRACKING DOGS

Why was Lindsey's scent not picked up by these dogs shortly following her disappearance.  Think about it ... the Maple Street route was taken by Lindsey both going to and coming from the Kampen/Williams residence.

Something is not right.

 ::MonkeyNoNo::

Janet

++++++



Janet,  the explanation is the sustained heat and it  the scents rising from the sidewalk and dissapating. If this is not the case, what are you suggesting?  Please don't start on the JB connection again. It is simply not a viable action in my estimation.  I think we need to look somewhere else.  Where do you suggest?


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Tamikosmom on August 03, 2009, 11:30:25 AM
THE TRACKING DOGS

Why was Lindsey's scent not picked up by these dogs shortly following her disappearance.  Think about it ... the Maple Street route was taken by Lindsey both going to and coming from the Kampen/Williams residence.

Something is not right.

 ::MonkeyNoNo::

Janet

++++++



Janet,  the explanation is the sustained heat and it  the scents rising from the sidewalk and dissapating. If this is not the case, what are you suggesting?  Please don't start on the JB connection again. It is simply not a viable action in my estimation.  I think we need to look somewhere else.  Where do you suggest?

AZSunny ... considering it is a known fact that Lindsey was on Maple on foot in her journey to the Kampen and ... she was at the Shell station ... I was questioning the capability of the dogs.

Janet   


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Tamikosmom on August 03, 2009, 11:31:08 AM
Janet - I have wondered that from the beginning....You would think the dogs would have picked up her scent somewhere beyond Kara's yard...

BINGO!!


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: klaasend on August 03, 2009, 11:37:59 AM
Just my own personal opinion but I don't think the "children" or the parents of missing persons belong posting or reading these message boards, especially not the children. 

I also don't believe we should censure our posts thinking they may be. 


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on August 03, 2009, 11:47:39 AM
Good Morning.  ::MonkeyAngel::

I wanted to come back on and thank KaraK for coming back to answer some of my questions will I was gone. I appreciate you going to the trouble to do that for me, a total stranger to you on this thread as we have never posted together.

To ANJ, forgive me for having implied you knew me. I thought I had told you quite a bit about my background, and you would understand I was not talking off the top of my head. I will not ever claim that you know the slightest thing about me again. The spatting comment was made in a post to me, so I took it that way.

It was not you JESSTAR that I was talking about when I said it offended me for someone to make a blanket statement and immediately log off. Sorry, if you thought I meant you.

I am still suprised that in McCleary, being a little town, where ususally a town of this size everyone knows everything about everybody, that nobody really knows nothing, and nothing about what the police are really doing. And why it is so hard to get a simple building for willing private searcers to come in and at least try to look for Lindsay. It is mindboggling.

I too only hope for the return of Lindsay, and pray it will not drag out into months and years of agony for her friends and family. I will light a candle everyday as I have usually done, and may from time to time read along. I am sorry that I upset the applecart for posting my thoughts here.   ::MonkeyCool::


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Heidismom on August 03, 2009, 11:48:07 AM
Fanny Mae,
McCleary did not have a 4th of July celebration/parade.  Need to have your facts straight.  And you can't know the attitude & sadness of a town unless you are here.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Tamikosmom on August 03, 2009, 11:54:25 AM
Fanny Mae,
McCleary did not have a 4th of July celebration/parade.  Need to have your facts straight.  And you can't know the attitude & sadness of a town unless you are here.

Heidismom

Do you have a personal connection to the Baum family?

Thank you

Janet


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: no rose colored glasses on August 03, 2009, 12:01:36 PM
Fanny Mae,
McCleary did not have a 4th of July celebration/parade.  Need to have your facts straight.  And you can't know the attitude & sadness of a town unless you are here.
Could you answer my questions, please. How are the towns people acting, is it like life goes on, or are people suspicious of each other? Are kids out and about and playing like before? What is the general thought of people about what happened to Lindsey?


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Heidismom on August 03, 2009, 12:07:26 PM
Fanny Mae,
McCleary did not have a 4th of July celebration/parade.  Need to have your facts straight.  And you can't know the attitude & sadness of a town unless you are here.

Heidismom

Do you have a personal connection to the Baum family?

Thank you

Janet
No, I don't, just great compassion for them for what they are going through.  I also feel so badly for Josh as he faces his teen & adult years with challenges that are not anyone's fault.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Tracygirl on August 03, 2009, 12:09:01 PM
Just my own personal opinion but I don't think the "children" or the parents of missing persons belong posting or reading these message boards, especially not the children. 

I also don't believe we should censure our posts thinking they may be. 

Good morning everyone,
Klaas I am not sure if you are directing this to my post when I commented on what if the family or loved ones read our postings. I was referring to the arguing and loss of focus on trying to help. I would think should be able to discuss and debate without losing our composure.
Kara thanks for posting back to us, I appreciate your comments and observations.
 
I am going to add my 2 cents... A town does go back to normal. It doesn't say anything else other  then life goes on, no matter how horrible it can be,  we have to get back to what we know as normal in order to survive. I am sure as it was in Tracy, as it is in Boise, in Escondido and the many other cities and towns, McCleary is heartbroken they have not been able to locate Lindsey and want nothing more then to have her home.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: pink angel on August 03, 2009, 12:10:10 PM
THE TRACKING DOGS

Why was Lindsey's scent not picked up by these dogs shortly following her disappearance.  Think about it ... the Maple Street route was taken by Lindsey both going to and coming from the Kampen/Williams residence.

Something is not right.

 ::MonkeyNoNo::

Janet

++++++



Janet,  the explanation is the sustained heat and it  the scents rising from the sidewalk and dissapating. If this is not the case, what are you suggesting?  Please don't start on the JB connection again. It is simply not a viable action in my estimation.  I think we need to look somewhere else.  Where do you suggest?

AZSunny ... considering it is a known fact that Lindsey was on Maple on foot in her journey to the Kampen and ... she was at the Shell station ... I was questioning the capability of the dogs.

Janet   

http://www.cityofboise.org/Departments/Police/Multimedia/DepartmentVideos/BloodhoundDemoVNR.wmv

Janet,
Here is a video of a bloodhound used in the search for Robert Manwill. It's a demonstration on how they work. The handler even says that is harder to track on asphalt because it doesn't hold scent the way grass and bushes do. 


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Tamikosmom on August 03, 2009, 12:18:05 PM
Fanny Mae,
McCleary did not have a 4th of July celebration/parade.  Need to have your facts straight.  And you can't know the attitude & sadness of a town unless you are here.

Heidismom

Do you have a personal connection to the Baum family?

Thank you

Janet
No, I don't, just great compassion for them for what they are going through.  I also feel so badly for Josh as he faces his teen & adult years with challenges that are not anyone's fault.

What has been revealed in regards to the various troubling issues encompassing Josh Baum ... I too feel for this young man.  Nevertheless ... considering the heated argument just prior to his sister's disappearance ... the heated argument that dictated intervention by a family friend ... Josh Baum must be considered a person of interest until eliminated by LE.  In the name of justice for Lindsey Baum ... no person of interest should be given a free pass.

Heidismom ... thank you for responding.

Janet


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Tamikosmom on August 03, 2009, 12:20:40 PM
THE TRACKING DOGS

Why was Lindsey's scent not picked up by these dogs shortly following her disappearance.  Think about it ... the Maple Street route was taken by Lindsey both going to and coming from the Kampen/Williams residence.

Something is not right.

 ::MonkeyNoNo::

Janet

++++++



Janet,  the explanation is the sustained heat and it  the scents rising from the sidewalk and dissapating. If this is not the case, what are you suggesting?  Please don't start on the JB connection again. It is simply not a viable action in my estimation.  I think we need to look somewhere else.  Where do you suggest?

AZSunny ... considering it is a known fact that Lindsey was on Maple on foot in her journey to the Kampen and ... she was at the Shell station ... I was questioning the capability of the dogs.

Janet   

http://www.cityofboise.org/Departments/Police/Multimedia/DepartmentVideos/BloodhoundDemoVNR.wmv

Janet,
Here is a video of a bloodhound used in the search for Robert Manwill. It's a demonstration on how they work. The handler even says that is harder to track on asphalt because it doesn't hold scent the way grass and bushes do. 


Thank you pink angel

I just thought that somewhere along that Maple Street route ... some where in the Shell Station ... a scent would be detected.

Janet


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: no rose colored glasses on August 03, 2009, 12:24:11 PM
Am I too assume that life has moved on in McCleary?  ::MonkeyEek::


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: AZSunny on August 03, 2009, 12:26:19 PM
THE TRACKING DOGS

Why was Lindsey's scent not picked up by these dogs shortly following her disappearance.  Think about it ... the Maple Street route was taken by Lindsey both going to and coming from the Kampen/Williams residence.

Something is not right.

 ::MonkeyNoNo::

Janet

++++++



Janet,  the explanation is the sustained heat and it  the scents rising from the sidewalk and dissapating. If this is not the case, what are you suggesting?  Please don't start on the JB connection again. It is simply not a viable action in my estimation.  I think we need to look somewhere else.  Where do you suggest?

AZSunny ... considering it is a known fact that Lindsey was on Maple on foot in her journey to the Kampen and ... she was at the Shell station ... I was questioning the capability of the dogs.

Janet   

http://www.cityofboise.org/Departments/Police/Multimedia/DepartmentVideos/BloodhoundDemoVNR.wmv

Janet,
Here is a video of a bloodhound used in the search for Robert Manwill. It's a demonstration on how they work. The handler even says that is harder to track on asphalt because it doesn't hold scent the way grass and bushes do. 


Fascinating video.  Thanks Pink Angel.     It just occured to me, that there are not sidewalks in the area. I don't know why this took me so long to realize.I was visualizing her on a sidewalk walking home.   Lindsey would be walking on the street, asphalt most probably.  Heavy traffic wasn't an apparent concern, so she would not have been walking on the side of the road, in the dirt and gravel.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: pink angel on August 03, 2009, 12:29:48 PM
There have been several cases I can think of where people have gone missing and dogs don't pick up a scent or unable to track the person. (depending on the whether they are scent dogs or air tracking dogs)

I would think there would be a scent picked up too and the fact that there was not, is sad for Lindsey.

Dogs are just a tool though and like humans are fallible. They are only as good as the scent available, the conditions, the scent objects they are given, their training and their handler.




Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: pink angel on August 03, 2009, 12:32:32 PM
There have been several cases I can think of where people have gone missing and dogs don't pick up a scent or unable to track the person. (depending on the whether they are scent dogs or air tracking dogs)

I would think there would be a scent picked up too and the fact that there was not, is sad for Lindsey.

Dogs are just a tool though and like humans are fallible. They are only as good as the scent available, the conditions, the scent objects they are given, their training and their handler.




and even then, they do make errors.

I too found the video fascinating, AZ. You are welcome.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on August 03, 2009, 12:38:02 PM
Fanny Mae,
McCleary did not have a 4th of July celebration/parade.  Need to have your facts straight.  And you can't know the attitude & sadness of a town unless you are here.

My apologies, it was the BEAR FESTIVAL pictures and parade I was refering to, held the second week in July.

http://www.cityofmccleary.com/index.asp?Type=B_BASIC&SEC={16587989-AB3D-40DE-AD14-52F45942F4A2}


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Kat_Gram on August 03, 2009, 12:42:30 PM
Her scent would stop if she got into a car.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Tracygirl on August 03, 2009, 12:43:11 PM
Am I too assume that life has moved on in McCleary?  ::MonkeyEek::

I don't think it is unreasonable to assume life goes on. Although, in my opinion it doesn't mean the town has forgotten.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: no rose colored glasses on August 03, 2009, 12:45:25 PM
Am I too assume that life has moved on in McCleary?  ::MonkeyEek::

I don't think it is unreasonable to assume life goes on. Although, in my opinion it doesn't mean the town has forgotten.

All I'm trying to get an answer to is how are the people in town reacting to what happend to Lindsey? Are they being more cautious, are they suspicious of their neighbors, what is the talk in town like about this?


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on August 03, 2009, 12:46:25 PM
Am I too assume that life has moved on in McCleary?  ::MonkeyEek::

I don't think it is unreasonable to assume life goes on. Although, in my opinion it doesn't mean the town has forgotten.


In your experience in Tracy when Sandra Cantu came up missing, was it that way too?


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Tracygirl on August 03, 2009, 12:47:00 PM
Fanny Mae,
McCleary did not have a 4th of July celebration/parade.  Need to have your facts straight.  And you can't know the attitude & sadness of a town unless you are here.

My apologies, it was the BEAR FESTIVAL pictures and parade I was refering to, held the second week in July.

http://www.cityofmccleary.com/index.asp?Type=B_BASIC&SEC={16587989-AB3D-40DE-AD14-52F45942F4A2}

That was the festival or gathering they put out posters and such? At least it was used to spread the word to as many people as possible about Lindsey.

In tracy after Kyle had escaped from the house of terror it was around the holiday season, it felt weird to be at our towns parade, to go to the tree lighting


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Tracygirl on August 03, 2009, 12:48:35 PM
Am I too assume that life has moved on in McCleary?  ::MonkeyEek::

I don't think it is unreasonable to assume life goes on. Although, in my opinion it doesn't mean the town has forgotten.


In your experience in Tracy when Sandra Cantu came up missing, was it that way too?

Yep!


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on August 03, 2009, 02:09:13 PM
Am I too assume that life has moved on in McCleary?  ::MonkeyEek::

I don't think it is unreasonable to assume life goes on. Although, in my opinion it doesn't mean the town has forgotten.


In your experience in Tracy when Sandra Cantu came up missing, was it that way too?

Yep!

 ::MonkeyEek:: ::MonkeyNoNo:: ::MonkeyWaa::


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: JessStar on August 03, 2009, 02:28:42 PM
Fanny Mae, I recently had the same reaction as you are having to what tracygirl is saying. But it was in connection with Nevaeh-a little girl that (probably because of her tender age), really brought me to my knees. I'm a big hockey fan. I remember watching some of the stanley cup finals (the Detroit Redwings were playing), and watching all the Detroit fans cheering in their seats thinking "How could they!  A little girl is missing from your community, and you are watching hockey and cheering!"  That was my state of mind. But I had to realize that yes, life must go on. Nevaeh would want it that way, I'm sure. That doesn't mean for one second that I have forgotten about her. She is still in my thoughts and prayers, much like Sandra Cantu is.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: JessStar on August 03, 2009, 02:38:56 PM
And I should add, much like all the children-Lindsey included. Once I become personally invested, its hard for me to walk away. And impossible for me to forget.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: no rose colored glasses on August 03, 2009, 02:42:36 PM
And I should add, much like all the children-Lindsey included. Once I become personally invested, its hard for me to walk away. And impossible for me to forget.
I am the same way.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: chi-monkey on August 03, 2009, 02:44:11 PM
Fanny Mae,
McCleary did not have a 4th of July celebration/parade.  Need to have your facts straight.  And you can't know the attitude & sadness of a town unless you are here.

Heidismom

Do you have a personal connection to the Baum family?

Thank you

Janet
No, I don't, just great compassion for them for what they are going through.  I also feel so badly for Josh as he faces his teen & adult years with challenges that are not anyone's fault.

What has been revealed in regards to the various troubling issues encompassing Josh Baum ... I too feel for this young man.  Nevertheless ... considering the heated argument just prior to his sister's disappearance ... the heated argument that dictated intervention by a family friend ... Josh Baum must be considered a person of interest until eliminated by LE.  In the name of justice for Lindsey Baum ... no person of interest should be given a free pass.

Heidismom ... thank you for responding.

Janet

Janet, I strongly agree with you on this.  If we cannot consider or discuss Josh, the only one fighting with Lindsey that last day, then we have no reason to be here.  The reasons given for not looking at him are not compelling to me.    A moment of uncontrolled rage and a little help with cleanup is all it would have required for Josh to be involved.   Feeling sorry for Josh is not the point here; finding Lindsey is.   

Chi-M



Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on August 03, 2009, 02:52:08 PM
Fanny Mae, I recently had the same reaction as you are having to what tracygirl is saying. But it was in connection with Nevaeh-a little girl that (probably because of her tender age), really brought me to my knees. I'm a big hockey fan. I remember watching some of the stanley cup finals (the Detroit Redwings were playing), and watching all the Detroit fans cheering in their seats thinking "How could they!  A little girl is missing from your community, and you are watching hockey and cheering!"  That was my state of mind. But I had to realize that yes, life must go on. Nevaeh would want it that way, I'm sure. That doesn't mean for one second that I have forgotten about her. She is still in my thoughts and prayers, much like Sandra Cantu is.

I appreciate you noticing my distress over this. Monroe Mi is not in Detroit, but is a small community between Toledo and Detroit. Tracy, Ca is not the biggest place in the world either. but I remember the outpouring and the news and television ongoing reports. And the interviews going on with citizens who were beside themselves with worry. And the huge outporings of attendence for their vigils and memorials in both places. Yes, I guess life goes on, but the loss of a child in the area is still the topmost concern until they are found.

I have seen nothing like that in McCleary, Wa. I realize it is an out of the way place, probably someplace that most of us have never been to or lived in. It is just unfathomable to me that so many people in such a small place know nothing, and would just to prefer it to be that way. If the LE and the people in such a situation make it uncomfortable for media and outsiders to be there, they will leave. A simple fact. And it seems to be deliberately so.

As far as my remarks for the Bear Festival going on so close to the time of Lindsay being missing, now we are hearing how the city and the LE are underfunded, and the Grays County Sheriff's Office is thinking of cuts. I guess it looks to me like priotities of a missing child vesus disappointing this year's Bear Festival participants were measured, and guess who won? Ok, flyers were handed out to a few more people than those that live right in town. How did that work out for them? It sounds like a case of "Come to town, Leave your money, and then leave and leave us alone."


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Tamikosmom on August 03, 2009, 02:58:31 PM
Fanny Mae,
McCleary did not have a 4th of July celebration/parade.  Need to have your facts straight.  And you can't know the attitude & sadness of a town unless you are here.

Heidismom

Do you have a personal connection to the Baum family?

Thank you

Janet
No, I don't, just great compassion for them for what they are going through.  I also feel so badly for Josh as he faces his teen & adult years with challenges that are not anyone's fault.

What has been revealed in regards to the various troubling issues encompassing Josh Baum ... I too feel for this young man.  Nevertheless ... considering the heated argument just prior to his sister's disappearance ... the heated argument that dictated intervention by a family friend ... Josh Baum must be considered a person of interest until eliminated by LE.  In the name of justice for Lindsey Baum ... no person of interest should be given a free pass.

Heidismom ... thank you for responding.

Janet

Janet, I strongly agree with you on this.  If we cannot consider or discuss Josh, the only one fighting with Lindsey that last day, then we have no reason to be here.  The reasons given for not looking at him are not compelling to me.    A moment of uncontrolled rage and a little help with cleanup is all it would have required for Josh to be involved.   Feeling sorry for Josh is not the point here; finding Lindsey is.   

Chi-M



Thank you chi-Monkey.

Sometimes I feel I am in a twilight zone.

Janet


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: chi-monkey on August 03, 2009, 03:12:54 PM
Private wells and septic tanks pose a danger to children.  Many old towns have private wells, most unused but sometimes not permanently sealed.  Septic tanks often have openings large enough for a small child to fall in, or otherwise.   Ditto underground water cisterns. 

Reading the McCleary City information I see that the city services supply water and sewer to most residents, but some in outlying areas of town use private wells and tanks.   Also, that gas station may have abandoned its old leaky underground storage tanks, but left them in place. 

So far I have not found local maps showing this detail.  Just worrying.

Chi-M


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on August 03, 2009, 03:17:45 PM
Private wells and septic tanks pose a danger to children.  Many old towns have private wells, most unused but sometimes not permanently sealed.  Septic tanks often have openings large enough for a small child to fall in, or otherwise.   Ditto underground water cisterns. 

Reading the McCleary City information I see that the city services supply water and sewer to most residents, but some in outlying areas of town use private wells and tanks.   Also, that gas station may have abandoned its old leaky underground storage tanks, but left them in place. 

So far I have not found local maps showing this detail.  Just worrying.

Chi-M

You have just brought up concerns that I posted much earlier in the thread, and the only answers that were ever forthcoming were "I don't know", to nothing. I am glad you brought it up again.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: AZSunny on August 03, 2009, 03:24:17 PM
Fanny Mae,
McCleary did not have a 4th of July celebration/parade.  Need to have your facts straight.  And you can't know the attitude & sadness of a town unless you are here.

Heidismom

Do you have a personal connection to the Baum family?

Thank you

Janet
No, I don't, just great compassion for them for what they are going through.  I also feel so badly for Josh as he faces his teen & adult years with challenges that are not anyone's fault.

What has been revealed in regards to the various troubling issues encompassing Josh Baum ... I too feel for this young man.  Nevertheless ... considering the heated argument just prior to his sister's disappearance ... the heated argument that dictated intervention by a family friend ... Josh Baum must be considered a person of interest until eliminated by LE.  In the name of justice for Lindsey Baum ... no person of interest should be given a free pass.

Heidismom ... thank you for responding.

Janet

Janet, I strongly agree with you on this.  If we cannot consider or discuss Josh, the only one fighting with Lindsey that last day, then we have no reason to be here.  The reasons given for not looking at him are not compelling to me.    A moment of uncontrolled rage and a little help with cleanup is all it would have required for Josh to be involved.   Feeling sorry for Josh is not the point here; finding Lindsey is.   

Chi-M



Chi, I don't think anyone said we were not considering Josh or that it couldn't be discussed, or that investigations on his background are not important. It doesn't mean that we can't focus on other issues, and not dedicate the whole thread to one suspect.  When page after page is covered on one issue, we lose focus on all the other suspects and circumstances. 

 Do I personally think Josh was involved, NO...I don't think he is mentally capable or focused enough to have done this by himself. Maybe the focus should be who may have helped him?  Not his mother as she has taken a poly and passed.  Perhaps there should be a separate thread just to discuss Josh.  Would that keep everyone happy??


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: JessStar on August 03, 2009, 03:27:15 PM
Fanny Mae, I recently had the same reaction as you are having to what tracygirl is saying. But it was in connection with Nevaeh-a little girl that (probably because of her tender age), really brought me to my knees. I'm a big hockey fan. I remember watching some of the stanley cup finals (the Detroit Redwings were playing), and watching all the Detroit fans cheering in their seats thinking "How could they!  A little girl is missing from your community, and you are watching hockey and cheering!"  That was my state of mind. But I had to realize that yes, life must go on. Nevaeh would want it that way, I'm sure. That doesn't mean for one second that I have forgotten about her. She is still in my thoughts and prayers, much like Sandra Cantu is.

I appreciate you noticing my distress over this. Monroe Mi is not in Detroit, but is a small community between Toledo and Detroit. Tracy, Ca is not the biggest place in the world either. but I remember the outpouring and the news and television ongoing reports. And the interviews going on with citizens who were beside themselves with worry. And the huge outporings of attendence for their vigils and memorials in both places. Yes, I guess life goes on, but the loss of a child in the area is still the topmost concern until they are found.

I have seen nothing like that in McCleary, Wa. I realize it is an out of the way place, probably someplace that most of us have never been to or lived in. It is just unfathomable to me that so many people in such a small place know nothing, and would just to prefer it to be that way. If the LE and the people in such a situation make it uncomfortable for media and outsiders to be there, they will leave. A simple fact. And it seems to be deliberately so.

As far as my remarks for the Bear Festival going on so close to the time of Lindsay being missing, now we are hearing how the city and the LE are underfunded, and the Grays County Sheriff's Office is thinking of cuts. I guess it looks to me like priotities of a missing child vesus disappointing this year's Bear Festival participants were measured, and guess who won? Ok, flyers were handed out to a few more people than those that live right in town. How did that work out for them? It sounds like a case of "Come to town, Leave your money, and then leave and leave us alone."

Wow, did you say a mouthful.  So true.  I have to admit, I find the town's reaction unusual as well-at least from what I can gather from reading media reports and forums such as this.  I'm not there, so I don't know what happens on a day-to-day basis.  I also don't know the town dynamics.  To even begin to understand the town's perceived reaction, you have to understand its people.

For example, how is the relationship between citizens and law enforcement?  Are they suspicious of one another?  Do they trust one another?  Do they respect one another?  Are most residents long-time residents?  Or is a good percentage of the population transient?  What do the people do for a living?  Who is the major employer?  For those who've lived there any appreciable amount of time, why have they stayed?  What is the relationship among the citizenry?  Are there cliques?   Are there "gossip chains?"  And if so, do they focus on any particular person or perceived class of persons?  What is the citizen's view of the media?  What is the average education level?  What is the median age group?  What is the town's principal source of revenue?  What do the citizens do for fun, entertainment, or attraction?

The problem is we judge people through our own eyes.  I already know that if something like this ever happened close to my home, I'd be a basket case, even if the child wasn't mine.  I'd devote whatever time and resources I could toward finding him/her.  I can't imagine it any other way--that's just me--when it comes to children, no cost is too great.  So I automatically think others should react the same way.  To think that KaraK and others couldn't find someone to donate a small space for a "command center" was unbelievable to me, and perhaps symbolic of how financially distressed the area is.  Or perhaps there's a bigger issue of which all of us--except perhaps for the locals--can understand.

This is, of course, all just my opinion, and I certainly mean no disrespect to the citizens of McCleary.  They are going through a very stressful time right now.  The bottom line is that an 11 year old girl remains missing.  And that, alone, is heartbreaking to most people.




Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: AZSunny on August 03, 2009, 03:28:06 PM
Private wells and septic tanks pose a danger to children.  Many old towns have private wells, most unused but sometimes not permanently sealed.  Septic tanks often have openings large enough for a small child to fall in, or otherwise.   Ditto underground water cisterns. 

Reading the McCleary City information I see that the city services supply water and sewer to most residents, but some in outlying areas of town use private wells and tanks.   Also, that gas station may have abandoned its old leaky underground storage tanks, but left them in place. 

So far I have not found local maps showing this detail.  Just worrying.

Chi-M

I wonder if a call to the city services water department could assist with this information?  They were helpful in providing information previously about the draining of the water. 


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: no rose colored glasses on August 03, 2009, 03:43:51 PM
Private wells and septic tanks pose a danger to children.  Many old towns have private wells, most unused but sometimes not permanently sealed.  Septic tanks often have openings large enough for a small child to fall in, or otherwise.   Ditto underground water cisterns. 

Reading the McCleary City information I see that the city services supply water and sewer to most residents, but some in outlying areas of town use private wells and tanks.   Also, that gas station may have abandoned its old leaky underground storage tanks, but left them in place. 

So far I have not found local maps showing this detail.  Just worrying.

Chi-M

You have just brought up concerns that I posted much earlier in the thread, and the only answers that were ever forthcoming were "I don't know", to nothing. I am glad you brought it up again.
And also I'm going to bring up again, the smell, the smell while they were flushing the sewer system. To me that is a big deal, and could mask the smell of decomp.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: chi-monkey on August 03, 2009, 03:47:40 PM
Private wells and septic tanks pose a danger to children.  Many old towns have private wells, most unused but sometimes not permanently sealed.  Septic tanks often have openings large enough for a small child to fall in, or otherwise.   Ditto underground water cisterns. 

Reading the McCleary City information I see that the city services supply water and sewer to most residents, but some in outlying areas of town use private wells and tanks.   Also, that gas station may have abandoned its old leaky underground storage tanks, but left them in place. 

So far I have not found local maps showing this detail.  Just worrying.

Chi-M

You have just brought up concerns that I posted much earlier in the thread, and the only answers that were ever forthcoming were "I don't know", to nothing. I am glad you brought it up again.

At this point I know more about the sewage and drainage system in McCleary than any stranger should. LOL 

Interesting points I read were that the door company waste is held there before dumping into the city system part way to the treatment plant.   That the sewer system before its latest improvement project was so poor that some residents had broken through pipes or their basement floors to the sewer lines to dump drainage in directly.   Manhole covers are to weigh at least 120#.  (Way to heavy for a child to lift.)

I think there should be maps in the city or county offices showing water and drainage.  There are only 5 places in town where drainage can be seen from above ground, but a company doing their plans for the last upgrade ran cameras through the entire system.  Wish they could do that again.   

 Interesting point with the cameras, they found enormous flow from unknown and previously unmeasured source coming into the city system.   It was the door company which had hooked in with city workers help, but been forgotten.  Anyway,  I have no answers about this.   Let's keep looking.

Chi-M

         



Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: no rose colored glasses on August 03, 2009, 03:49:43 PM
JessStar I see you have many questions about the town, I have asked over and over some of your questions, but I still don't know the answers. I'm frustrated, I know from growing up in a small town, people must be talking like crazy over this, I would just like to know what some of the people are thinking about Lindsey missing, my biggest question is are the kids out and about like before Lindsey went missing? There certainly seems to not be as big of concern like in some cases we have followed, maybe I'm wrong. Is LE telling parents to keep an eye on your kids, we have a kidnapper running around, are they warning the public?


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: no rose colored glasses on August 03, 2009, 03:51:06 PM
Thanks chi-monkey   ::MonkeyCool::


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Lovinlife on August 03, 2009, 04:02:44 PM
I believe the county engineer's office should have the sewer and storm drain plans.  ICBW.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Lovinlife on August 03, 2009, 04:15:17 PM
http://www.ecy.wa.gov/programs/wq/permits/permit_pdfs/mccleary/mccleary_fs.pdf

Maybe this will help someone  ::MonkeyConfused::


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: JessStar on August 03, 2009, 04:16:59 PM
Here's a little information that gives us some idea of the demographics of McCleary:

According to the United States Census Bureau, the city has a total area of 1.8 square miles (4.7 km²), of which, 1.8 square miles (4.7 km²) of it is land and 0.55% is water.

As of the census[1] of 2000, there were 1,454 people, 555 households, and 376 families residing in the city.
The population density was 800.2 people per square mile (308.5/km²).
There were 583 housing units at an average density of 320.9/sq mi (123.7/km²).
The racial makeup of the city was 94.36% White, 0.21% African American, 0.89% Native American, 0.28% Asian, 0.76% from other races, and 3.51% from two or more races. Hispanic or Latino of any race were 2.20% of the population.

There were 555 households out of which 32.1% had children under the age of 18 living with them, 50.3% were married couples living together, 13.7% had a female householder with no husband present, and 32.1% were non-families.

27.2% of all households were made up of individuals and 13.2% had someone living alone who was 65 years of age or older.
The average household size was 2.48 and the average family size was 3.00.

In the city the population was spread out with 25.0% under the age of 18, 7.7% from 18 to 24, 27.0% from 25 to 44, 21.5% from 45 to 64, and 18.8% who were 65 years of age or older.

The median age was 38 years.

For every 100 females there were 91.1 males. For every 100 females age 18 and over, there were 87.0 males.

The median income for a household in the city was $30,769, and the median income for a family was $36,534. Males had a median income of $33,421 versus $25,417 for females. The per capita income for the city was $14,249. About 12.2% of families and 17.8% of the population were below the poverty line, including 22.9% of those under age 18 and 24.5% of those age 65 or over.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: JessStar on August 03, 2009, 04:21:58 PM
A little additional information comparing McCleary to Washington generally:

Estimated median household income in 2007:
McCleary:   $38,193
Washington:   $55,591


Estimated per capita income in 2007:
McCleary:   $17,580
Washington:   $29,027


Estimated median house or condo value in 2007:
McCleary:   $138,604
Washington:   $300,800


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: atlanta_mom on August 03, 2009, 04:25:46 PM
Strange - today when I signed on there is only 1 guest.  A couple of weeks ago, there were 18 or 19 all the time.  What does this mean? 


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: JessStar on August 03, 2009, 04:26:18 PM
This answers some of our questions and helps us get a feel for this seemingly quaint little town:

http://ftp.techline.com/infocus/mccleary.htm


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on August 03, 2009, 04:26:26 PM
The storm drain system, sewer system, and water system would be one thing. The knowledge about abandoned water wells, septic tanks, and cisterns would probably only be documented in the memory of a long time WILLING McCleary resident. IMO


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Lovinlife on August 03, 2009, 04:27:57 PM
Strange - today when I signed on there is only 1 guest.  A couple of weeks ago, there were 18 or 19 all the time.  What does this mean? 
Guests are non-members who are here to read, or in some cases (like me sometimes) members who have not logged in (I forget ::MonkeyDevil:: )


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: no rose colored glasses on August 03, 2009, 04:28:50 PM
This answers some of our questions and helps us get a feel for this seemingly quaint little town:

http://ftp.techline.com/infocus/mccleary.htm
Thanks JessStar


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Lovinlife on August 03, 2009, 04:31:55 PM
The storm drain system, sewer system, and water system would be one thing. The knowledge about abandoned water wells, septic tanks, and cisterns would probably only be documented in the memory of a long time WILLING McCleary resident. IMO
Good idea Fanny.  Some interesting reading here:


http://mcclearychamber.org/history.html
Although Simpson Logging Company improved the utilities prior to selling them to the Town, the need for adequate fire protection and a new sewer system soon became apparent. In 1952, a complete two-stage sewage treatment plant together with new water mains and a storage tank were constructed at a cost of $500,000.

So any home constructed before 1952 would have a well & a septic?  I'm a city girl, I'm not sure how that works.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on August 03, 2009, 04:36:46 PM
Strange - today when I signed on there is only 1 guest.  A couple of weeks ago, there were 18 or 19 all the time.  What does this mean? 

Maybe they don't like the company here posting.  ::MonkeyDevil::


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: atlanta_mom on August 03, 2009, 04:41:03 PM
The storm drain system, sewer system, and water system would be one thing. The knowledge about abandoned water wells, septic tanks, and cisterns would probably only be documented in the memory of a long time WILLING McCleary resident. IMO
Good idea Fanny.  Some interesting reading here:


http://mcclearychamber.org/history.html
Although Simpson Logging Company improved the utilities prior to selling them to the Town, the need for adequate fire protection and a new sewer system soon became apparent. In 1952, a complete two-stage sewage treatment plant together with new water mains and a storage tank were constructed at a cost of $500,000.

So any home constructed before 1952 would have a well & a septic?  I'm a city girl, I'm not sure how that works.

Unfortunately, I know all about wells and sewer systems.  We have both.  3 months after we bought our house we started noticing a strange wet spot in the front yard.  We asked the previous owners if they knew anything about it.  He said it was a natural spring.  We later found out it was the septic lines that he "the previous owner" had pumped out every 3 months before they sold the house.  It cost us $10,000 to replace (it never passed county code either and we had to completely replace) ::MonkeyNoNo::


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: atlanta_mom on August 03, 2009, 04:43:20 PM
I meant septic system ::MonkeyEek:: Sooooorry......


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: JessStar on August 03, 2009, 04:44:24 PM
The storm drain system, sewer system, and water system would be one thing. The knowledge about abandoned water wells, septic tanks, and cisterns would probably only be documented in the memory of a long time WILLING McCleary resident. IMO
Good idea Fanny.  Some interesting reading here:


http://mcclearychamber.org/history.html
Although Simpson Logging Company improved the utilities prior to selling them to the Town, the need for adequate fire protection and a new sewer system soon became apparent. In 1952, a complete two-stage sewage treatment plant together with new water mains and a storage tank were constructed at a cost of $500,000.

So any home constructed before 1952 would have a well & a septic?  I'm a city girl, I'm not sure how that works.

If McCleary is like other places, updating to city water/sewage would have been required.  I'll leave that up to the locals to answer for sure, but this comes from the site I referenced above:

The water and sewer departments are up to date, and again very reasonable. Although the utilities are town owned, some of the outlying areas  are serviced for electricity by Grays Harbor PUD and have privately-owned water wells and septic tanks.



Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on August 03, 2009, 04:44:49 PM
The storm drain system, sewer system, and water system would be one thing. The knowledge about abandoned water wells, septic tanks, and cisterns would probably only be documented in the memory of a long time WILLING McCleary resident. IMO
Good idea Fanny.  Some interesting reading here:


http://mcclearychamber.org/history.html
Although Simpson Logging Company improved the utilities prior to selling them to the Town, the need for adequate fire protection and a new sewer system soon became apparent. In 1952, a complete two-stage sewage treatment plant together with new water mains and a storage tank were constructed at a cost of $500,000.

So any home constructed before 1952 would have a well & a septic?  I'm a city girl, I'm not sure how that works.

I was a city girl too. But I do know that when my mama and daddy bought a house in the early '60 that was further out, it had a well and a septic tank. A few years later, the city came through and laid water and sewer pipes and offered the residents a cheaper rate if they hooked on at the time of construction. Most did, although my daddy kept the well going for irrigation of his garden, as long as the water pipes to the city service were seperate from the well water. The septic tanks were still there in every yard, and were sometimes filled with cement or fill. Some were not. Over the years, the grass grew over the opening, and unless you knew beforehand it was there, you would have never know it. It was that way in most yards in the neighborhood.

It would be that kind of information from someone living in the area at the time to be able to tell if this was so in McCleary. I doubt seriously if it would be in any public records.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: atlanta_mom on August 03, 2009, 04:52:36 PM
Most people don't take out the septic tanks because of the expense to do so.  I wanted our septic tank moved because it was so close to the front door.  Needless to say, I couldn't afford it so it is still there.  Also, the county codes keep most people from making decisions for themselves.  You have to have the county approve every step.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: atlanta_mom on August 03, 2009, 04:56:43 PM
Unfortunately, I have heard of a couple of cases where children have been found in a septic tank.  Most tanks are hard to get into though, so It always seem suspicious to me.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Lovinlife on August 03, 2009, 04:58:53 PM
I think we scared everyone away with our sewer talk.  Fanny, I think you maybe on to something here.  If I understand correctly, just because you have city sewer & water does not necessarily mean you don't have an abandoned well & septic tank on your property.  Hmmmm. 


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: JessStar on August 03, 2009, 05:10:16 PM
I'd surmise that very few people removed their septic systems. However, if the conversion took place over 50 years ago, the chances that they would still be accessible are probably slim. I'd be more concerned about abandoned wells. They're probably all over the place. JMO


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: atlanta_mom on August 03, 2009, 05:11:49 PM
Do you think Lindsey may have fallen into an abandoned well or septic tank?  Abandoned wells have always scared me.  We had a property beside ours when I was a child that had a couple of abandoned wells.  The property had, at one time, been a little park that had performances and parties.  It had long ago been abandoned and the only evidence of the wells were metal sheets that covered it.  I was always afraid that one of our dogs would fall in.  They often went over there to play in the creek.  Alot of abandoned wells are not even covered adequately.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: A_News_Junkie_Monkey on August 03, 2009, 05:17:56 PM
Most people don't take out the septic tanks because of the expense to do so.  I wanted our septic tank moved because it was so close to the front door.  Needless to say, I couldn't afford it so it is still there.  Also, the county codes keep most people from making decisions for themselves.  You have to have the county approve every step.

I had a house where everything was on septic and when we got public utilities it was the homeowners responsibility and was strictly enforced that the tanks had to be filled with pea gravel and sealed.  Wonder if the regulations are that strict there? 

BTW - ChiMonkey - interesting post - you have been busy on this. 

Atlanta mom - I have noticed that on big news days the amount of guest goes up in a linear fashion to logged in monkeys.  When news is slow, few guests and often they are us - just not logged in yet!

Lets hope news comes soon about Lindsay.





Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on August 03, 2009, 05:26:27 PM
Do you think Lindsey may have fallen into an abandoned well or septic tank?  Abandoned wells have always scared me.  We had a property beside ours when I was a child that had a couple of abandoned wells.  The property had, at one time, been a little park that had performances and parties.  It had long ago been abandoned and the only evidence of the wells were metal sheets that covered it.  I was always afraid that one of our dogs would fall in.  They often went over there to play in the creek.  Alot of abandoned wells are not even covered adequately.

I don't really think Lindsay "fell" into an abandoned well or septic tank because of the time she came up missing. It was getting dark and she was on her way home on the sidewalks and streets. But I certainly do think she could have been place there by someone in the area that knows of such things. JMO


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: atlanta_mom on August 03, 2009, 05:29:17 PM
Sorry off the subject,
they found a body of juvenile boy close to where the little 8 yr old went missing. ::MonkeyWaa:: ::MonkeyWaa::


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Tamikosmom on August 03, 2009, 05:31:26 PM
What led LE to focus in and conduct "six" searches of Mullin Creek within four days of Lindsey Baum disappearance.

Is the location of this Creek search anywhere near that two block stretch between 5th on Maple and the Baum residence?

Thank you.

Janet

++++++

Search ramps up for McCleary girl
10:19 PM PDT on Tuesday, June 30, 2009


After four days, searchers say they're trying to remain optimistic. Today Grays Harbor County called in the State Patrol's plane for help.

More dogs were called out to look in the neighborhood where Lindsey was last seen walking home from a friend's house Friday night.

Every option is still on the table for police, who say Lindsey could have been injured, lost, kidnapped or just ran away.

"We have not found evidence, we have not found circumstances, witnesses or information that speaks specifically as to what happened to Lindsey," said Scott.

Instead of kids playing in Jim Mullin's creek, search dogs were back on his property. It's the sixth time his place has been searched.

http://www.king5.com/topstories/stories/NW_063009WAB-Mccleary-girl-search-LJ.1fc0b759.html



Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: JessStar on August 03, 2009, 05:35:34 PM
I just heard that sad news atlanta mom. Apparently a young boy wearing a blue shirt was pulled from a canal near the rental home and suburban that was searched. While they haven't confirmed yet, it doesn't sound good. Police canceled the press cponference.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on August 03, 2009, 05:45:47 PM
O/T Robert Manwell breaking news.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=5793.new#new


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: JessStar on August 03, 2009, 06:42:03 PM
OT- I don't know where to put this, but our site was quoted on FoxNews this evening by Brett Baier (spelling?). He read a quote someone wrote about "Sara Palin Derangement Syndrome."



Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: no rose colored glasses on August 03, 2009, 06:49:29 PM
OT- I don't know where to put this, but our site was quoted on FoxNews this evening by Brett Baier (spelling?). He read a quote someone wrote about "Sara Palin Derangement Syndrome."


  ::MonkeyCool::  Go to the blog on the front page, about three or four stories down.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: A_News_Junkie_Monkey on August 03, 2009, 06:49:52 PM
OT- I don't know where to put this, but our site was quoted on FoxNews this evening by Brett Baier (spelling?). He read a quote someone wrote about "Sara Palin Derangement Syndrome."



I show his show repeating at 4am EST on Fox,  I will record it, but maybe someone can record it for a you tube video so we can all see it!   (That is beyond my current skill set!)


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: MuffyBee on August 03, 2009, 06:51:51 PM
OT- I don't know where to put this, but our site was quoted on FoxNews this evening by Brett Baier (spelling?). He read a quote someone wrote about "Sara Palin Derangement Syndrome."



JessStar, if it's OT, you might want to put it in musings, and we can take it from there.   ::MonkeyWink::  Thanks for bringing it. 


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: MuffyBee on August 03, 2009, 06:52:53 PM
OT- I don't know where to put this, but our site was quoted on FoxNews this evening by Brett Baier (spelling?). He read a quote someone wrote about "Sara Palin Derangement Syndrome."


  ::MonkeyCool::  Go to the blog on the front page, about three or four stories down.

Thanks no rose  ::MonkeyCool::


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: JessStar on August 03, 2009, 06:55:51 PM
Will do- thanks MuffyBee. You learn something new every day!


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Tracygirl on August 03, 2009, 07:20:17 PM
Fanny Mae, I recently had the same reaction as you are having to what tracygirl is saying. But it was in connection with Nevaeh-a little girl that (probably because of her tender age), really brought me to my knees. I'm a big hockey fan. I remember watching some of the stanley cup finals (the Detroit Redwings were playing), and watching all the Detroit fans cheering in their seats thinking "How could they!  A little girl is missing from your community, and you are watching hockey and cheering!"  That was my state of mind. But I had to realize that yes, life must go on. Nevaeh would want it that way, I'm sure. That doesn't mean for one second that I have forgotten about her. She is still in my thoughts and prayers, much like Sandra Cantu is.

I appreciate you noticing my distress over this. Monroe Mi is not in Detroit, but is a small community between Toledo and Detroit. Tracy, Ca is not the biggest place in the world either. but I remember the outpouring and the news and television ongoing reports. And the interviews going on with citizens who were beside themselves with worry. And the huge outporings of attendence for their vigils and memorials in both places. Yes, I guess life goes on, but the loss of a child in the area is still the topmost concern until they are found.

I have seen nothing like that in McCleary, Wa. I realize it is an out of the way place, probably someplace that most of us have never been to or lived in. It is just unfathomable to me that so many people in such a small place know nothing, and would just to prefer it to be that way. If the LE and the people in such a situation make it uncomfortable for media and outsiders to be there, they will leave. A simple fact. And it seems to be deliberately so.

As far as my remarks for the Bear Festival going on so close to the time of Lindsay being missing, now we are hearing how the city and the LE are underfunded, and the Grays County Sheriff's Office is thinking of cuts. I guess it looks to me like priotities of a missing child vesus disappointing this year's Bear Festival participants were measured, and guess who won? Ok, flyers were handed out to a few more people than those that live right in town. How did that work out for them? It sounds like a case of "Come to town, Leave your money, and then leave and leave us alone."

Fanny I know it is difficult. When the sandra cantu search was happening, sure there was what seemed like a lot of seachers but less then 3% of the people were actually active in the search. Tracy has a population of about 80,000 people believe it or not and it was said about 2000 people volunteered and not all were from Tracy. While she was missing it was a topic of conversation sure, but most people just went on with their daily lives. Kids played outside, sometimes by themselves, I saw young girl walking alone down the street believe it or not. There were baseball games, little league was starting up the season...I don't think no town ever just stops, I wish it would but that is not realistic I suppose. 
The memorial was visited by many people around that direct area which is heavily hispanic and catholic. Sandra was missing for what was it, 8-10 days before she was found? Lindsey has been lost now for so much longer. No matter how we wish everyone would stop and just look under ever stone, in every water way, in every single place, it just doesn't happen. I don't think it is because people don't care, it is because they can't handle the emotions of it all. As humans we need to protect ourselves so we survive. Sadly it is because of this I believe people just move on.
I find it frustrating to not be able to be there in McCleary. I was actually considering going there believe it or not but then we lost my fil and I had to use my time for that. I want to walk down the path she is said to have taken, speak to the people she knew, just watch and see what I can find...
I hope and pray LE can find this little girl soon, I pray she is alive and can be re-united again with her family. After reading about the body found in Idaho, poor little Robert, I have a son who is 9  ::MonkeyWaa::


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Tamikosmom on August 03, 2009, 07:22:32 PM
OT- I don't know where to put this, but our site was quoted on FoxNews this evening by Brett Baier (spelling?). He read a quote someone wrote about "Sara Palin Derangement Syndrome."



DIVORCE … NOT!!! Sarah & Todd Palin Divorce Rumors … Just More Lies from the Moonbat LEFT
http://scaredmonkeys.com/2009/08/01/divorce-not-sarah-todd-palin-divorce-rumors-just-more-lies-from-the-moonbat-left/


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Fanny Mae on August 03, 2009, 08:44:35 PM
Snipped from the statement that was made in the past few minutes from Deputy Sheriff Jim Kerns, Ada Country Sheriff's office in reference to the body found that could be 8 yr old Robert Manwell's in a canal near Kuna, Idaho.

“A missing child is every family’s nightmare, and a nightmare for an entire community," Kerns said.

My question is, where is the same passion in McCleary, Wa?



Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Heidismom on August 03, 2009, 10:00:48 PM
Snipped from the statement that was made in the past few minutes from Deputy Sheriff Jim Kerns, Ada Country Sheriff's office in reference to the body found that could be 8 yr old Robert Manwell's in a canal near Kuna, Idaho.

“A missing child is every family’s nightmare, and a nightmare for an entire community," Kerns said.

My question is, where is the same passion in McCleary, Wa?


Excuse Me???   We are not exactly Boise, or Kuna, either!


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: AZSunny on August 03, 2009, 10:16:32 PM
Snipped from the statement that was made in the past few minutes from Deputy Sheriff Jim Kerns, Ada Country Sheriff's office in reference to the body found that could be 8 yr old Robert Manwell's in a canal near Kuna, Idaho.

“A missing child is every family’s nightmare, and a nightmare for an entire community," Kerns said.

My question is, where is the same passion in McCleary, Wa?


Excuse Me???   We are not exactly Boise, or Kuna, either!

Heidi, I agree.  I think it is ludicurious that anyone would think there isn't the passion and concern for finding Lindsey. That is just a small number of posters opinion.  It is just a smaller, less vocal community with a lot less police support and a lot less recourses.  Don't let that type of posts concern you.  I think the biggest problem you are facing is the lack of press coverage to keep Lindsey in the news. I am shocked that the KOMO's and the KING TV of the Seattle world aren't providing more coverage to keep the news current.  Keep up the good fight! 


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: AZSunny on August 03, 2009, 10:19:21 PM
Snipped from the statement that was made in the past few minutes from Deputy Sheriff Jim Kerns, Ada Country Sheriff's office in reference to the body found that could be 8 yr old Robert Manwell's in a canal near Kuna, Idaho.

“A missing child is every family’s nightmare, and a nightmare for an entire community," Kerns said.

My question is, where is the same passion in McCleary, Wa?


Excuse Me???   We are not exactly Boise, or Kuna, either!

Heidi, I agree.  I think it is ludicrous that anyone would think there isn't the passion and concern for finding Lindsey. That is just a small number of posters opinion.  It is just a smaller, less vocal community with a lot less police support and a lot less resource's Don't let that type of posts concern you.  I think the biggest problem you are facing is the lack of press coverage to keep Lindsey in the news. I am shocked that the KOMO's and the KING TV of the Seattle world aren't providing more coverage to keep the news current.  Keep up the good fight! 

SELF EDIT---sorry-


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: AZSunny on August 03, 2009, 10:21:07 PM
Snipped from the statement that was made in the past few minutes from Deputy Sheriff Jim Kerns, Ada Country Sheriff's office in reference to the body found that could be 8 yr old Robert Manwell's in a canal near Kuna, Idaho.

“A missing child is every family’s nightmare, and a nightmare for an entire community," Kerns said.

My question is, where is the same passion in McCleary, Wa?



Is that a question, or a statement.  Looks like a judgemental statement to me.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Heidismom on August 03, 2009, 10:41:13 PM
Snipped from the statement that was made in the past few minutes from Deputy Sheriff Jim Kerns, Ada Country Sheriff's office in reference to the body found that could be 8 yr old Robert Manwell's in a canal near Kuna, Idaho.

“A missing child is every family’s nightmare, and a nightmare for an entire community," Kerns said.

My question is, where is the same passion in McCleary, Wa?


Excuse Me???   We are not exactly Boise, or Kuna, either!

Heidi, I agree.  I think it is ludicurious that anyone would think there isn't the passion and concern for finding Lindsey. That is just a small number of posters opinion.  It is just a smaller, less vocal community with a lot less police support and a lot less recourses.  Don't let that type of posts concern you.  I think the biggest problem you are facing is the lack of press coverage to keep Lindsey in the news. I am shocked that the KOMO's and the KING TV of the Seattle world aren't providing more coverage to keep the news current.  Keep up the good fight! 
Thank You.  The Olympia paper was very lax in its coverage, & we are only 20 miles away. It was several days before they even mentioned Lindsey. The vigils could be advertised more. I personally knew nothing about the last one til the day after.  A friend told me the vigil was very briefly mentioned on one newscast, and I saw a large poster on the corner across from the park, but many of us do not go by there routinely

For whoever asked about the changes in town, no, I don't see children out playing or riding bikes nearly as much.  We were already considered overprotective, now the poor kids are barely out of sight.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: AZSunny on August 03, 2009, 10:49:52 PM
Snipped from the statement that was made in the past few minutes from Deputy Sheriff Jim Kerns, Ada Country Sheriff's office in reference to the body found that could be 8 yr old Robert Manwell's in a canal near Kuna, Idaho.

“A missing child is every family’s nightmare, and a nightmare for an entire community," Kerns said.

My question is, where is the same passion in McCleary, Wa?


Excuse Me???   We are not exactly Boise, or Kuna, either!

Heidi, I agree.  I think it is ludicurious that anyone would think there isn't the passion and concern for finding Lindsey. That is just a small number of posters opinion.  It is just a smaller, less vocal community with a lot less police support and a lot less recourses.  Don't let that type of posts concern you.  I think the biggest problem you are facing is the lack of press coverage to keep Lindsey in the news. I am shocked that the KOMO's and the KING TV of the Seattle world aren't providing more coverage to keep the news current.  Keep up the good fight! 
Thank You.  The Olympia paper was very lax in its coverage, & we are only 20 miles away. It was several days before they even mentioned Lindsey. The vigils could be advertised more. I personally knew nothing about the last one til the day after.  A friend told me the vigil was very briefly mentioned on one newscast, and I saw a large poster on the corner across from the park, but many of us do not go by there routinely

For whoever asked about the changes in town, no, I don't see children out playing or riding bikes nearly as much.  We were already considered overprotective, now the poor kids are barely out of sight.

I would be overprotective too!  I have 3 granddaughters that live in Maple Valley, and I am emailing their parents constantly to be watchful!   

Why would the Olympia paper not be banner headling this when she went missing? 

How sad that the kids can't enjoy the freedom anymore of feeling safe in a small community.  Are you seeing officers in the area continuing the search efforts?  Most of us are all from such larger cities, that it is hard to imagine life in a very small town.  The dynamics must be very different. 


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Sister on August 03, 2009, 11:05:15 PM
Heidismom, do you know if they did find a location for the "information" center.  (I can't remember the name of the group seeking it.  Maybe some other monkey can recall).  I just remember that it was reported they were having a difficult time finding a place.  I too live in a very small community and the resources for something of this magnitude . . . well, there just aren't any.  I am sure the community is concerned, compassionate, and troubled.  Just because it's not reported in the news, doesn't make it not true.  In fact, many threads back, there was an article about why this case is not getting the coverage it rightly deserves.  I pray every morning and every night for Lindsey's safe return and for the safety of everyone in this community.  It must be an absolutely frightening time.  Blessings to all of you and thank you for posting.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Heidismom on August 03, 2009, 11:24:15 PM
Heidismom, do you know if they did find a location for the "information" center.  (I can't remember the name of the group seeking it.  Maybe some other monkey can recall).  I just remember that it was reported they were having a difficult time finding a place.  I too live in a very small community and the resources for something of this magnitude . . . well, there just aren't any.  I am sure the community is concerned, compassionate, and troubled.  Just because it's not reported in the news, doesn't make it not true.  In fact, many threads back, there was an article about why this case is not getting the coverage it rightly deserves.  I pray every morning and every night for Lindsey's safe return and for the safety of everyone in this community.  It must be an absolutely frightening time.  Blessings to all of you and thank you for posting.

I see a Gray's Harbor Sheriff car at the police  station from time to time,  haven't really seen them searching from my location lately, not even on those days they brought the cadaver dogs in. 
I don't know anything about the center, If they get it going, I will check it out, & see what I can do.

Goodnight


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: JessStar on August 04, 2009, 08:40:47 AM
You know, the unfortunate fact is that the media is all about sensationalism.  And they have the power of the pulpit.  Until something sensational happens, they don't care.  They don't care about keeping the story alive.  They don't care that just a 20-30 second spot on the nightly news can help keep the memory, the energy, the wherewithal to find this little girl, alive and burning strong.  So the story "disappears."  But you can bet your sweet rear that the minute something breaks, it will be all over the news like flies on doo doo.  And then they'll act like they care--they'll act like they've cared all along.  And it's complete bull.  If they cared, they'd take 20 or 30 seconds away from the "Michael Jackson" debacle and devote it to finding Lindsey.  Is that too much to ask?

Main stream and cable media condemns tabloid news reporting but, the fact is, they're no different.  It's like that Don Henley song "Dirty Laundry."  Until there's a "sensational" story, there is no story.  Plain and simple.  So it's up to us "common" people to get the story out and keep it alive. And that's a feat in and of itself.

Ok, I'll get off my soap box now.  But I'm feeling the frustration that a lot of people are feeling.  I can't see how a 10 year old girl can just disappear without a trace.  And to think that the effort to find her is being limited by the almighty dollar is simply sinful.  It's times like this I wish I had the money of Oprah Winfrey or Bill Gates.  Who needs billions to live on anyway?

Sorry, I rant and rave.  Oh, and Good Morning everyone.  I'm hoping and praying that today is the day Lindsey comes home.  And that Nevaeh's murderer is arrested.  And that Melissa Huckaby is indicted.  And that Haleigh Cummings comes home.  And that Robert Manwill is given justice.  The list goes on . . .



Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Sister on August 04, 2009, 09:07:37 AM
Jess, good morning.  I totally agree with you -- rant on!
Lindsey is wanted at home!


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: Lovinlife on August 04, 2009, 09:52:54 AM
(http://www.king5.com/localnews/stories/D_IMAGE.1223cc986ef.93.88.fa.d0.6d5d40.jpg)

Lindsey Baum-Still Missing

Where are you Lindsey?


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3
Post by: A_News_Junkie_Monkey on August 04, 2009, 10:30:21 AM
You know, the unfortunate fact is that the media is all about sensationalism.  And they have the power of the pulpit.  Until something sensational happens, they don't care.  They don't care about keeping the story alive.  They don't care that just a 20-30 second spot on the nightly news can help keep the memory, the energy, the wherewithal to find this little girl, alive and burning strong.  So the story "disappears."  But you can bet your sweet rear that the minute something breaks, it will be all over the news like flies on doo doo.  And then they'll act like they care--they'll act like they've cared all along.  And it's complete bull.  If they cared, they'd take 20 or 30 seconds away from the "Michael Jackson" debacle and devote it to finding Lindsey.  Is that too much to ask?

Main stream and cable media condemns tabloid news reporting but, the fact is, they're no different.  It's like that Don Henley song "Dirty Laundry."  Until there's a "sensational" story, there is no story.  Plain and simple.  So it's up to us "common" people to get the story out and keep it alive. And that's a feat in and of itself.

Ok, I'll get off my soap box now.  But I'm feeling the frustration that a lot of people are feeling.  I can't see how a 10 year old girl can just disappear without a trace.  And to think that the effort to find her is being limited by the almighty dollar is simply sinful.  It's times like this I wish I had the money of Oprah Winfrey or Bill Gates.  Who needs billions to live on anyway?

Sorry, I rant and rave.  Oh, and Good Morning everyone.  I'm hoping and praying that today is the day Lindsey comes home.  And that Nevaeh's murderer is arrested.  And that Melissa Huckaby is indicted.  And that Haleigh Cummings comes home.  And that Robert Manwill is given justice.  The list goes on . . .



I totally agree!   I am so sick of MJ for 45 min to an hour on JVM and NG I could puke!  So............
WHO WANTS TO START A LETTER CAMPAIGN?     Lets all write to JVM, NG, Gretta and other shows and tell them we want investigative reporting back.  I am going to ask them all if they will email me when they get off the MJ train and back to important news - especially information about all these missing children.  Anyone else in?  Thank you JessStar for inspiring me!


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3 7/28/09 -
Post by: no rose colored glasses on August 04, 2009, 10:44:09 AM
blownaway 
Registered User   Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: McCleary
Posts: 6 
 
Crazy....I just went to town and saw JB and his Mom. He was riding his new bike (looked like a new one) listening to his IPOD or something. I noticed him riding toward the intersection in his own little world. I slowed way down in case he decided to fly out onto Mommson or something, Mom was sitting on the front lawn in a chair....It must be hard waiting for a child to come home not knowing if she will EVER even return...

There was also a very strange lady asking about the case at Gordons Grocery, the cashier was tweaked by her also. I wish I saw where the lady went..It was almost like she was probing to see if the cops had told them any secrets about the case there at the grocery store. The cashier did say that LE wanted them to look out for strange people but she said "it would be easier to look for normal people,there are less of them..".
(I just read this on WS, thought it was interesting)


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3 7/28/09 -
Post by: A_News_Junkie_Monkey on August 04, 2009, 10:50:05 AM
 ::MonkeyCheer2::     All the media links!     ::MonkeyCheer2::

Part 1:  A-N    http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/psdunc/gGB8bS

Part 2:  M-Z    http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/psdunc/gGB8HG

I am hoping most of these are still up to date!  I might have to keep this or maybe a mod can copy it and paste it as a resource for future? 
Leave it to the political campaigns to have this! LOL


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3 7/28/09 -
Post by: A_News_Junkie_Monkey on August 04, 2009, 10:53:16 AM
blownaway 
Registered User   Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: McCleary
Posts: 6 
 
Crazy....I just went to town and saw JB and his Mom. He was riding his new bike (looked like a new one) listening to his IPOD or something. I noticed him riding toward the intersection in his own little world. I slowed way down in case he decided to fly out onto Mommson or something, Mom was sitting on the front lawn in a chair....It must be hard waiting for a child to come home not knowing if she will EVER even return...

There was also a very strange lady asking about the case at Gordons Grocery, the cashier was tweaked by her also. I wish I saw where the lady went..It was almost like she was probing to see if the cops had told them any secrets about the case there at the grocery store. The cashier did say that LE wanted them to look out for strange people but she said "it would be easier to look for normal people,there are less of them..".
(I just read this on WS, thought it was interesting)

Thanks No Rose - that is interesting.  I can't help but wonder if the lady asking at the grocery is one of us or a ws person!   Come us, fess up who was at Gordons Grocery asking questions! LOL


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3 7/28/09 -
Post by: no rose colored glasses on August 04, 2009, 10:59:51 AM
blownaway 
Registered User   Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: McCleary
Posts: 6 
 
Crazy....I just went to town and saw JB and his Mom. He was riding his new bike (looked like a new one) listening to his IPOD or something. I noticed him riding toward the intersection in his own little world. I slowed way down in case he decided to fly out onto Mommson or something, Mom was sitting on the front lawn in a chair....It must be hard waiting for a child to come home not knowing if she will EVER even return...

There was also a very strange lady asking about the case at Gordons Grocery, the cashier was tweaked by her also. I wish I saw where the lady went..It was almost like she was probing to see if the cops had told them any secrets about the case there at the grocery store. The cashier did say that LE wanted them to look out for strange people but she said "it would be easier to look for normal people,there are less of them..".
(I just read this on WS, thought it was interesting)

Thanks No Rose - that is interesting.  I can't help but wonder if the lady asking at the grocery is one of us or a ws person!   Come us, fess up who was at Gordons Grocery asking questions! LOL
I didn't even give that a thought  ::MonkeyConfused:: I must need more coffee.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3 7/28/09 -
Post by: klaasend on August 04, 2009, 11:10:16 AM
ANJ - I've created a thread in this forum for Media Contacts so your lists don't get lost.  Thanks!


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3 7/28/09 -
Post by: A_News_Junkie_Monkey on August 04, 2009, 11:22:52 AM
ANJ - I've created a thread in this forum for Media Contacts so your lists don't get lost.  Thanks!

Thank you - I copied and pasted the full lists too, as that site looks very inactive and if it get taken down this list looks very comprehensive! 


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3 7/28/09 -
Post by: Edward on August 04, 2009, 11:33:49 AM
blownaway 
Registered User   Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: McCleary
Posts: 6 
 
Crazy....I just went to town and saw JB and his Mom. He was riding his new bike (looked like a new one) listening to his IPOD or something. I noticed him riding toward the intersection in his own little world. I slowed way down in case he decided to fly out onto Mommson or something, Mom was sitting on the front lawn in a chair....It must be hard waiting for a child to come home not knowing if she will EVER even return...

There was also a very strange lady asking about the case at Gordons Grocery, the cashier was tweaked by her also. I wish I saw where the lady went..It was almost like she was probing to see if the cops had told them any secrets about the case there at the grocery store. The cashier did say that LE wanted them to look out for strange people but she said "it would be easier to look for normal people,there are less of them..".
(I just read this on WS, thought it was interesting)

Thanks No Rose - that is interesting.  I can't help but wonder if the lady asking at the grocery is one of us or a ws person!   Come us, fess up who was at Gordons Grocery asking questions! LOL

Many showed up to Aruba..
No doubt one of us showed up to Gordons grocery in McCleary Washington.

Sounds like a private investigator..  ::MonkeyWink::


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3 7/28/09 -
Post by: no rose colored glasses on August 04, 2009, 04:35:36 PM
So sad to see no progress  ::MonkeyNoNo::


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3 7/28/09 -
Post by: no rose colored glasses on August 04, 2009, 09:14:36 PM
Where is everybody? And where is Lindsey?  ::MonkeyNoNo::


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3 7/28/09 -
Post by: Leroy on August 04, 2009, 09:24:08 PM
Where is everybody? And where is Lindsey?  ::MonkeyNoNo::

My thoughts exactly NoRose  ::MonkeyNoNo:: 


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3 7/28/09 -
Post by: no rose colored glasses on August 04, 2009, 09:28:27 PM
Where is everybody? And where is Lindsey?  ::MonkeyNoNo::

My thoughts exactly NoRose  ::MonkeyNoNo:: 
I'm getting worried, and sure hope LE is working hard behind the scenes.


Title: Re: Lindsey Baum #3 7/28/09 -
Post by: MuffyBee on August 04, 2009, 09:34:56 PM