Scared Monkeys Discussion Forum

http://www.nwcn.com/news/washington/Reward-increased-in-case-of-missing-McCleary-girl-82818452.html

(http://media.nwcn.com/images/lindseybaum_missing.jpg)

by KING Staff

Posted on January 27, 2010 at 12:25 PM

Updated today at 12:30 PM

******
Related:
Find Lindsey Baum

MCCLEARY, Wash. - The reward is being increased to $20,000 in the case of a missing Grays Harbor County girl.

Eleven- year-old Lindsey Baum disappeared seven months ago while walking home from a friend's house in McCleary.

The Gray's Harbor County Sheriff's Office says there are no new breaks in the case but they hope increasing the reward may bring more tips.

At a press conference Wednesday, Assistant Special Agent in Charge Ron Twersky of the FBI said the Child Abduction Rapid Deployment Team will get a "fresh eyes look" at the investigation and will make recommendations for how the investigation should proceed.

"The work has been extensive but we just need that break and we know that break is out there so that's what this review and this effort is all about," said Twersky.

Baum's mother asked anyone with information to come forward.

"Our world is standing still," said Melissa Baum. "It's hard to stand here and watch the entire world keep going on because our lives aren't moving. We're just frozen in time, waiting for her to come home. So if you know anything please just come forward with a little bit of information because that's what it would take to bring her home is the smallest little tip."

 ::MonkeyCool::

here's the press conference video.. everyone watch it if you haven't already

http://www.king5.com/video/featured-videos/Police-FBI-hold-press-conference-regarding-missing-McCleary-girl-82827387.html

Hi Sister,
I don't know how to bring the other post over to this new thread. Anyways, I long ago gave up on MB doing much of anything. I just really want the reward fund raised FOR LINDSEY. It is not her fault how her mother has handled this whole thing. I was happy though, to see MB out at the last vigil. I guess the news article that I read about Ernie from The center for missing & exploited children was exaggerated. I had no idea. I still think his salary is too high. I am sorry but that is just my feeling on it. Did you get paid when you went out searching for the missing angel in your area? No. You did it out of the goodness of your heart because you are kind and care about these kids. I just think anything over 100K for a charity salary is over the top. JMO

thanks for posting that . . . very interesting.
Prayers for Lindsey and the fresh eyes looking at her case.

Sebastian, I agree it's not Lindsey's fault about her mother and I too am thrilled about the increase in the reward.
We will respectfully disagree about Mr. Allen.
Mother Teresa was showing a news reporter the leper colony which she worked tirelessly.  She had no fear of touching these precious bodies and warming their souls.  The news reporter said something like, "I wouldn't do that for a million dollars."  Mother Theresa was reported to have replied, "Neither would I."

Mother Teresa, God rest her soul, was a diamond in the rough!

Morning Monkeys and guests,

I too am glad to see an increase in the reward & the fresh eyes to review the case.

Glad too to see ANY kind of movement.

Poor Lindsey needs to be found. I think about her almost every day, it is getting hard as there are so many to remember now, and that is sad.

 ::MonkeyAngel::

I'll try to move it over here.....stand by:

 ::CowboySmiley:: ::rhino:: ::MonkeyBike:: I did it!

::MonkeyCheer2:: ::MonkeyCheer2:: I am so glad the FBI has taken a second look at this case FBI Assistant Special Agent in Charge Ron Twersky and CARDT (Child Abduction rapid deployment team) ::MonkeyCheer2:: ::MonkeyCheer2:: God speed, bring Lindsey home!!!!! ::MonkeyCheer2:: ::MonkeyCheer2::

I had read that FBI is also going to take a second look at some of the people they already investigated. I think that's fantastic!

I just have this feeling that since FBI is getting involved again, that they must have something specific they are looking into though.

IIRC Jade ~ you're local? 

If so, have you heard anymore info regarding the latest search warrents served 12/24/2009?   

http://www.thenewstribune.com/news/northwest/story/1005774.html (link no longer works)

GRAYS HARBOR COUNTY
Search for missing McCleary girl intensifies

The Associated Press
Published: 12/24/09   6:55 am   |   Updated: 12/24/09   7:33 am


The Grays Harbor County sheriff's office says deputies started serving search warrants Friday in the McCleary area in the search for a missing 11-year-old girl.

Sgt. Steve Shumate told KXRO more warrants would be served through the weekend in an operation involving the FBI and the King County sheriff's office.

Shumate says investigators have been following leads and conducting interviews that identified areas that may contain information about the disappearance of Lindsey Baum. She disappeared the night of June 26 while walking home from a friend's house.

So I was over checking out the daily bookings at GHC Jail bookings (Thanks sunshine12 for that link BTW) and this caught my eye:  may be something may be nothing.


http://www.co.grays-harbor.wa.us/info/sheriff/JailRegisters/RegisterDetail.asp?SrchBookNo=176583

SCHMIDT, CORY ALLEN Book# 176583 
ID:  772   Male,  Age: 32 


Visiting Hours For Class: MAX - Males 
Wednesday: 0900-1030, 1800-2030
 



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Booked  Statute:   9A.76.110 - Escape 1
1/27/2010 11:10 Offense:   PROB - Probation/Parole Violation
  Arrest Type:   WAR
  Charging Agency:   GHCJ-Grays Harbor County Jail
  Court:   SC1M-GHC Superior Court 1
  Cause No:   97-1-417-1
   Bail Amount:   $5,000.00 
 Disposition:   BBS-Bondable Bail Set
      Seq# 1



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Booked  Statute:   9A.56.150 - Poss Stolen Prop 1
1/27/2010 11:10 Offense:   PROB - Probation/Parole Violation
  Arrest Type:   WAR
  Charging Agency:   GHCJ-Grays Harbor County Jail
  Court:   SC1M-GHC Superior Court 1
  Cause No:   99-1-217-5
   Bail Amount:   $5,000.00 
 Disposition:   BBS-Bondable Bail Set
      Seq# 1



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Booked  Statute:   9A.44.130 - Fail To Reg Sex/Kidnap Offendr 1/27/2010 11:10 Offense:   PROB - Probation/Parole Violation
  Arrest Type:   WAR
  Charging Agency:   GHCJ-Grays Harbor County Jail
  Court:   SC1M-GHC Superior Court 1
  Cause No:   99-1-214-1
   Bail Amount:   $5,000.00 
 Disposition:   BBS-Bondable Bail Set
      Seq# 1



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Booked  Statute:   9A.56.150 - Poss Stolen Prop 1
1/27/2010 11:10 Offense:   PROB - Probation/Parole Violation
  Arrest Type:   WAR
  Charging Agency:   GHCJ-Grays Harbor County Jail
  Court:   SC1M-GHC Superior Court 1
  Cause No:   99-1-217-5
   Bail Amount:   $0.00 
 Disposition:   PA-Pre-Arraignment


_______________________________

so I clicked on the ID#772 and this is what came up for priors:


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Book-No Statute:   9A.44.079 - Rape of a Child 3
175713 Offense:   PROB - Probation/Parole Violation
 Arrest Type:   WAR
Booked  Charging Agency:   DOCM-Department of Corrections
12/15/2009 17:10  Court:   DOCM-Department of Corrections
Released  Bail Amount:   No Bail 
12/22/2009 16:00 Disposition:   PRD-Released on Personal Recog

Yes I am local, but I live in Mason county, haven't lived in Grays Harbor for 4 years. I don't know anything about the warrants, I just had heard that between 8-11 were released, but don't know who is being searched.

I will look further into the man that you posted up. No idea if he had something to do with Lindsey or not, but it's still nice to be able to see the faces of people who have committed crimes like that though, so that I can steer my kids in a different direction in case we come into contact with one. Though this one you posted kind of stands out, since he failed to register and was avoiding the cops. Makes me wonder if he's from a different area

Jadeoff, yes the way I heard and read it, they will be looking at ALL the people again.  Maybe there will be more lie detectors requests coming up!!!!!!

I'm just hoping that they will be able to pick up different body language from people, since when they started questioning people when the case was fresh a lot of people were shook up by the fact that a local 10 year old was missing, one which a lot of people have seen around town. And now that the community has had a chance to sort of become calm in the situation it's likely that if someone locally did take her that they will have different body language than before.

Jadeoff, I agree plus what someone knew then and what the same someone knows now could be two different matters.  I hope folks form a line to take the lie detector.

It looks like he has an appearance hearing on Monday.
http://www.co.grays-harbor.wa.us/info/clerk/docket/rptcrimam.asp

Not sure if this is the same Cory Schmidt.  This one has Everett, WA.  Why doesn't GHS put up booking photos?

http://www.myspace.com/schmidtdog31

Thank you Amanda!

from my board


[size=150]why is she under the name of tanatchangsang?[/size]

they will probably set bail unless she is on some kind of probation hold?


TANATCHANGSANG, LIBBY JO Book# 176658 
ID:  38317   Female,  Age: 47 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Booked  Statute:   9A.36.031 - Assault 3
1/31/2010 01:50 Offense:   APSM - Assault, Police, Simple
  Arrest Type:   PC
  Charging Agency:   MCPD-McCleary Police Department
  Court:   -
  Cause No:   PC
   Bail Amount:   No Bail 
 Disposition:   PA-Pre-Arraignment

Starting Over,From The Beginning
 ::MonkeyAngel::

http://www.kirotv.com/video/22360719/index.html


http://www.king5.com/video/featured-videos/Police-FBI-hold-press-conference-regarding-missing-McCleary-girl-82827387.html


http://**/articles/2010/01/28/local_news/doc4b61e4aed9f4e625704361.txt


 ::MonkeyAngel::

Thanks San for that really special Opener for this Lindsey thread.  Let's hope that during the process of this timely thread that Lindsey will be found and brought back home to her family and friends.  xox

BTW I've missed you all on my Bursitis Sabbatical.  LOL  Man it's rough, hard to type as my little finger is numb from it, but I've discovered Icy Hot so will be fine.  Also sorry for the Christmas Avi.  LOL  Valentines are coming your way soon!


BTW again, I read Libby Nelson was arrested at 1am this morning.  Don't know yet what the charges are or if it is involved in the case.  xox

Hey DoubleDecker,  Thanks for the post which I must have overlooked.  LOL  xox

Thanks for the info
Hi Scandi, glad your feeling better

Assaulting a police officer -- yipes, how stupid is that?
Tracygirl, hope you are feeling better.  Me still has a bad cold (plus 12 inches of snow).

Thanks Tracygirl, It is good to be back.  Sister's snow sounds stupendous ~   ::rhino::  Get well Sister.  Just look at the snow thru the window and stay inside.  lol

Maybe we'll learn somethng about Libby today if she goes to court.  I think I saw a photo of her once and don't think she is real skinny, but the thought of her assulting an officer is just beyond the pale IMO.  Of course we don't know what was going on either.  I just want to know everything     ::MonkeyDevil::

the assault was actually not an assault as in 'hitting' etc.  I am told she "poked" him, so I guess they just did not feel like fooling with her.

the police were asked to come there because of a guy who was at the house. 

http://www.co.grays-harbor.wa.us/info/sheriff/JailRegisters/InmateDetail.asp?SrchNameNo=35147 Here is another child rapist that was re-arrested in January in Grays Harbor. Jason Thomas Leon Adams. It appears that LE may be doing a sweep of these scumbags. What I want to know, is why they are not behind bars in the first place?

There must be more to this story. Libby was not released today and there is no bail? Do you think that they are trying to put the squeeze on her thinking that she knows something about Lindsey's disappearance?

There must be more, no bail? For poking a police officer?  ::MonkeyShocked::

I agree -- there must be more to the story for "no bail" -- one can only hope that a lot of people are going to be "squeezed" now that the FBI is there.

I don't know why there is no bail set... the only reason that would make since is if she is on probation and has a probation hold, but it doesn't state that either.  I will try to find out what is going on... maybe bail was set and they have not updated the site yet?  I don't know. 

I do know why they police came there and it had nothing at all to do with the Lindsey case.  They were asked to come there by someone at the house.  It had to do with some guy that was at the house.  Why they ended up taking her to jail I don't know.  My guess is they said something to her she did not like and she told them about it and ended up poking them while she was telling them what she thought... that probably gave them a reason to take her to jail, get the guy out of her house and stop whatever it was they were asked to come there for in the first place. 

I think the police think someone at that house might know something.  They had been there way too many times before.  Whatever it was they thought someone might know must have not given them any answers and heaven knows they were there enough times to have found out. 

I have no idea what LE thinks anyone there might know.  But if anyone there did know anything, now might be the time to start re-asking them; we have both tag and libby in jail now and the girls are obviously with someone other than tag and libby.  Seems if there was ever a time to re-ask anyone at that household anything, now is the time to do it.

Good Morning,  Libby was released last night at 8:45pm.  http://www.co.grays-harbor.wa.us/info/sheriff/JailRegisters/TodaysReleases.asp (http://www.co.grays-harbor.wa.us/info/sheriff/JailRegisters/TodaysReleases.asp)

Thank-you

-
Hi DD, That makes me wonder if the kids at school who were chatting about what had happened to her right after she went missing were the girls in the swimming party? 

Does anyone remember talk about that? 

Have we ever truly established that Lindsey had stopped by Tag and Libby's the night that she disappeared? Didn't Libby deny it but others stated that Lindsey had?

Well, we know KK said she went by there looking for Lindsey around 11.  Makes you wonder why she went there.

Just MORE inconsistencies with the timeline. I wonder why LE would interview Tag and Libby so many times unless Lindsey actually HAD gone by their house that night. I also wonder why KK waited until 11pm to go by their home? Didn't she say that Lindsey left her house at 9:15pm? Why the delay? Why did Libby deny that Lindsey had been by her house that night? Where was Tag? KK says that when she went by there all of the girls were home alone. I wonder if this is why Marilyn Lassiter went silent. Perhaps she was defending Libby in the beginning and then started seeing inconsistencies herself?

KK's states her phone was on the charger and it wasn't receiving phone calls, that is why she didn't go looking until that time. The dogs didn't track Lindsey leaving KK's house so that makes me wonder if either she didn't leave in the conventional way or she came back thinking maybe she left her phone or something and on her way back met up with whatever happened to her.

According to KK, Lindsey and KK's daughter were swimming there all day.  Not so as has been proven over and over.
Trust me, she knew MB was out looking for Lindsey way before 11 o'clock.

no, they were not the same girls

There was a person back in July 2009 who said they knew for a fact that lindsey had stopped back by tag and libbys on her way home... this info was relayed to me by a person who asked for me.  At the time I did not know whether or not to believe this however this same person had said their was a slumber party at libby's that night(same thing Kara said. 

This same person said they saw a man on beck street and his truck up a logging road... HO also talked to this person, so that gave me more reason to believe this person. 

so I don't know what is true and what is not about all of this.  I only know what I have been told.  Did the person tell the truth?  Did they say what they believed to be the truth?  or did they just make it all up?  who knows.

I'll try to explain this the best I can...

when I received information that it was known for a fact that lindsey had stopped by libbys on the way home... that same person talked to ML.. this person told me ML's response to that info was that it was not true that she had talked to libby the next morning and Lindsey had not stopped by there.  After my asking for this person to keep asking and find out exactly, this same person told me that ML then said... libby had not actually said lindsey had not stopped by...rather.. libby had not mentioned anything about lindsey so ML assumed that meant lindsey had not stopped back by. 

the person stating they knew lindsey stopped by there FOR A FACT... you have to wonder how they know this FOR A FACT... were they there at libbys and saw lindsey there?  or were they told this by someone and believed it to the point the thought they know this for a fact?  I don't know. 

I had asked about this peron and am told this person is very credible. 

there is no way to know who really knew what, or just thought they knew it, or who is lying to cover up something else?  perhaps someone wants people to think lindsey was at libbys when she was not.. maybe lindsey was with the very people who are saying it, or with someone they know who they are covering for?  you just never know.

Thanks for that DD,  In my mind I accept what this person told you as a fact as I think your intuitive abilities are well honed.

Also to Sister, I thought KK said the first place she went looking was to Libby's.  But I agree, it sure makes one wonder why she headed there first! 

There are just too many circumstantial possibilities we have learned about that night at the Nelson house, like all these 5+ men drinkin' there and then at 11 even Tag was gone somewhere which seems very odd to me. Ya think he's be passed out by then, eh?  Libby calling for a change of clothes at 10:30pm, overly odd.  And to me the combination of the men assembled seems odd too, although they could have been regular drinkin' buddies.

I find it so odd that none of these men got up to clean the area around the pool where the girls were swimming, their diving or jump/splashing off the old stove seems so unsafe to me.

Gee Whiz, maybe one of them did venture forth to make the accommodations for the girls swimming a bit more safe, even pleasurable!   ::MonkeyEek::  Just a thought

Where did the information come from that there were 5 guys at Libby's that night? Do we have any names? Were all of the kids at the slumber party related to Libby? It seems weird to me that a bunch of men would be hanging out drinking while a slumber party is going on. Does anyone else think that is odd? I know I am overly paranoid with my kids, but I don't think I would be comfortable with that. Having said that, my kids would not be caught dead in that pool, if it is the same one with the stove for the diving board.

5+ men at a girls slumber party seems strange to me as well.  The only thing that might make it okay is if the men were the girls fathers...but it still is strange.

the girls are all relatives, it's not like it was any kind of "party", the cousin stayed over etc.  I don't know why they call it a slumber party?  maybe just staying up spending the night and watching movies etc is a slumber party to people. 

as for guys over drinking with tag, I don't know who was there or not but he has friends over drinking, that is the norm, so was not odd to THEM to have friends over drinking and libby's kids or nieces around.  I think that is pretty common for them. 

To understand this case we have to realize and remember that most of these people are nothing in every day life like most people on these crime forums.  They people have a different culture.. what is the norm and acceptable everyday life for them seems totally out of place for most of you...

also having a pool like that in the yard and set up that way is most likely very acceptable to them... it might even be considered a luxury to a lot of people. 

It's a different living style than what any of you are use to.  To them all of this is "normal" so nothing was going on that was not always going on.

Hello DD nice to see you around again. I have a question for you or anyone that wishes to answer.
I recall reading that the dogs didn't track Lindsey leaving Kara's home, they track her there and then nothing. What do you make of that? Does the theory fit that Lindsey never left or may have left and turned around to get somehing she may have forgotten or believed she had forgotten and was taken from in front of Kara's house. There is something that you always said and I can't move away from it, Dogs don't lie.
Can you also please refresh my memory if the woman standing in front of the friends house talking, I think it was a co worker to MB, she is the same person that says she saw Lindsey on the corner of 6th and maple. Has this person been investigated at all and what if anything was found out about her?

the dogs never trailed lindsey from kara's porch.  I don't believe the dogs lie, they have no reason to...

its possible she went out the back door? but then why would they not take the dogs to the back and trail her?  its possible the house door leads into the attached garage and she got into a vehicle that was in the garage?? I don't know... don't even know if the house door opens into the garage, but most of the time they do open into attached garages...

because kara had asked me what happens if lindsey were "carried" would the dogs be able to track her... its possible she was carried out of the house off the porch into a car... normally the dogs would know that though... but the trail might have been weaker and for such a short ways the dogs did not pick it up..

otherwise we have to assume lindsey never left kara's house...

the second witness is said to have come forward on tuesday, so this tells me the 2nd witness is not the first witness, who is rena who kara told me was standing outside of the stroms house when lindsey was going TO karas... this would be about 3 houses to the east of kara's house.  I don't know why rena would not also see lindsey walk FROM kara's as well as TO if lindsey was at kara's for only 5 minutes as kara claims.  you would think rena would see lindsey go back by again being it was just a few minutes.  And I also have to wonder why the other people outside with rena did not notice lindsey?  None of it really makes much sense. 

Where did we get the information that the dogs never caught a scent leading away from KK's house? Sadly, this case has been going on for so long that I am forgetting who said what. I can tell you this, however I cannot get into details. Dogs don't intend to lie but they make mistakes all of the time. I know this from the Amber Dubois case. They have had several dogs out and the dogs have taken them all over the place and nothing ever came out of any of it. Additionally, Lindsey's scent should have been all over that town. She had walked all around it for a very long time. I am sorry but I do not put a whole lot into the dog and or dogs that were used. Dogs, like people are not 100% all of the time, no matter how good they are supposed to be.
JMO

As I have not read every single post on the forums, I'm going to assume that Rena is the woman who saw Josh and Lindsey arguing and she sent Josh home. And then I also read that there was another woman who was driving to work that night and she saw Lindsey walking home where she was spotted at Maple and 6th.

Sebastian, the dogs pick up the freshest scent. Amber had dogs tracking her back home, the same thing as what has happened here. They picked up the scent from the school to the house, or that is what I was told and has been posted.

Lindsey was tracked to the house and then nothing. If she left either from the back or the front and walked anywhere else they would have tracked her there. I really think what ever happened to Lindsey, happened around Kara's house. Does that mean that Kara or her family did it? Not necessarily, it could have been someone around Kara's house. Then there is the scent that lead up to someone's door. Lindsey could have left Kara's house by car via the inside door and taken to that house. Was it searched? If I recall correctly it was not. 

Hi Tracygirl, 

Do you mean the house on Cedar?

I would also add that a dog is only as good as how he has been trained and how good a handler he/she has.  In Lindsey's case I think LE kept most of the dog info they gleaned tight to the vest, thankfully.

I know she was scented up by the water tower which might be why it was searched several times.  Also HO's dogs scented her going uphill on 6th, right?  And also wasn't it said she was scented up off of Beck St?  I know she had been to both the WT and Beck within the last few days with her friend/s before she disappeared so maybe that is what LE meant by saying her scent was weak.

I also don't think LE used cadaver or human scent recovery dogs.  Has anyone heard about that?  I think HO's dogs were dual trained in tracking and recovery but usually those are very special dogs, like the ones used on 9/11.

I believe that Lindsey did leave the Kampen residence that night. I believe that Kara's daughter is telling the truth that she watched Lindsey walk until she couldn't see her anymore.

Would anyone know how the dogs can tell if Lindsey was going toward the house or leaving the house?  Could she have followed the same path?  Sorry for what may be obvious to some, but has just been tapping on the back of my head for a while.  How does the dog know it was only one way, and which way it was?  Thanks!

 ::CowboySmiley::

Hi Jademoff,  It's great to see you again.  I agree with you for 2 reasons.  First LE had to have some reason to search that corner property on 6th and Fir so many times, all done by the Sunday after she went missing.  And second it would b e the logical way for Lindsey to walk if she was heading over to Libby's house on Main St, it being only a couple of houses up off Fir.  DD has stated she was told as a fact {capped} the person who knew Lindsey went there and had no reason to disbelieve her.  And then the first place KK went to look for Lindsey was at Libby's,  Just sayin'.

PS:,  Hey, that's really 4 reasons.  LOL

Hi Bearlyhere,  First, your Valentines Avi is simply too precious, those little hearts falling one by one from her hand - well the whole Avi is great.  Isn't our CBB something else?      ::MonkeyHeart::

I wish I knew the answer to your question.  I first started thinking about your question picturing her walking up and then down the street, how she would do it.  And then it dawned on me her footprints would mean nothing as the soles might not have any scent.  I don't know, but think the scent comes from the tiny rafts of skin which fall down around us as we walk around.

Lindsey only had about a 5 min + turn around time acc to Kara so there wouldn't be much difference in time.  And I don't think she walked a straight path, but maybe stopped, turned around to talk, did a little skip or two, maybe a dance step thrown in as she made it closer to KK's.  Just like any spirited young pre-teen would do, probably singing along to her steps.  But for sure, one path of rafts would be a bit fresher or newer than the other.  I don't know if a dog would sense that difference.  And we know she wouldn't walk back in exactly the same footsteps as she took walking up to Kara's.

Whatever that means  ::rhino::  Oh, this guy agrees with me  LOLOLOLOL  ::MonkeyDevil::  I really wish I knew the answer, just trying to visualize how it would work.  xox

I was at a meeting today for the Amber Dubois walk-a-thon next Saturday. I just wanted to share some things that I heard from people who hear things through the grapevine about Lindsey. Some had even helped in the Lindsey case at one time or another. KK is well liked by everyone that has ever worked the Lindsey Baum case. From what I heard today, she gives 150% of herself to helping to find Lindsey. It is also my understanding that KK's daughter has been getting a whole lot of ugliness at school about Lindsey just because Lindsey was at her house. It breaks my heart that kids can be so mean. I asked about the dogs and the fact that the scent was not picked up of Lindsey walking away from KK's house. It was told to me that the dogs were having a hard time picking up a scent anywhere. They did not have a fresh scent of Lindsey to go by. I know there are those of you that have been suspicious of KK, (myself included). I just wanted to pass on what I heard. Maybe those locals that see KK's daughter around town can give her a smile. First she loses her best friend and then she gets a bunch of nastiness from other kids. She does not deserve that.

I come here looking everyday , praying and hoping the new investigation team assigned to Lindsey's case will find something that tells them where she is or who is responsible for her disappearance.

It saddens me so for there to be absolutely nothing new in this case.  ::MonkeyNoNo::

:( Hopefully we'll hear something positive in regards to finding her soon. I'm really sad that the case has gone on this long too, it seems like since it was in McCleary, someone would have seen something, or at least have an idea of where the heck she may have gone if she left independently.

The dogs tracking Lindsey here and there, around and nowhere indicates to me that they were just too late getting there.  They may not lie, but they can be confused and not able to trail someone. 

Also, I think the very last thing Lindsey wanted was to return home alone.  It looks to me as if she wanted to stay elsewhere, or have someone with her at home.  That is an excellent defense plan when there is conflict or abuse at home.  I know I used it for years. 

Could Lindsey have been afraid of something/one following her, and hidden instead of going home?   I hope and pray that all the empty stores and homes have been searched including cabinets and fridges.   Also, abandoned vehicles which were unlocked.  What about old water cisterns?   Lindsey probably knew hiding places in that little town that only she and maybe Josh would.   The complete lack of information to this point makes me wonder if she hid herself too well and could not get out. 

OK... this may be too far out, but it does seem possible to me.     

JMOO naturally. 

Chi-M

Still talking to myself. ...    M Lachester(?) at one time was quoted as worried that Lindsey might have run to her old home, but she had moved away, so she could not help her.  That house was empty then as I recall.   I would like to take it apart board by board.   ML may have changed stories or misunderstood someone, but it could be that some of what she said was at least partially accurate. 

Do any Monks have thoughts on the possibility that Lindsey was not kidnapped by strangers and sold to the sex trade.  Maybe she was injured in an accident on the way home.  The property owners may well have moved her then to avoid investigation and lawsuits. 

I just can't buy that that whole town is evil, or just don't care about Lindsey.  They may not know anything more than we do.   For such a small and poor town, I think they did the best that they could to find Lindsey.   

Anyone want to discuss? 

IMO of course.

Chi-M



Chi-M
 

Chi-Monkey I don't know what to believe sometimes with this case. I find myself going back and forth and back and forth more then a tennis match.

I posted in the Amber thread a story of a young girl that was put into an underground to protect her from abuse she suffered. Anyone suppose that could have happened in this case...Maybe MB felt she couldn't protect Lindsey from Josh or from a friend or relative? Maybe Lindsey's dad did it, after all he doesn't seem to be too involved in helping to find her, maybe that is why?

Another thing I wonder you know there are so many places in Washington state to hide a body, maybe she just hasn't been found?

Sadly I agree with your last statement.  Not finding a body is no indication of anything except that no body has been found.  Does not mean she is alive, or not alive.  The entire town could search the woods and lakes up there for years and not find her, if she is even there.    The same could be said of Amber.

Chi-M

It had come to my mind also about the possibility of her being injured on the way home. But if that was the case they would have found signs involving body fluid of some sort. And that for sure would have been something the dogs would have picked up on.

I'm still trying to think of connections from the area she was last seen.

I do also  ::MonkeyNoNo:: And since I'm not good at sleuthing anything I appreciate all that I read here.

Do any of the locals know if there is anything coming out of the beefed up investigation regarding Lindsey? I think of her daily!

This case is driving me bonkers. What on earth happened to this girl? Still to this day we know nothing more then we did. Did she leave the house? We don't kniow. Not leave the house? Don't know. Go anywhere afterwards or began to walk straight home? No one knows foresure. I sure hope this is nto the case to those in LE. I pray they have something to go on.

Thanks, Scandi, I love my avi, I hate to give it up.  I love your avi, too.  CBB has been doing my avi forever and I have always been surprised and pleased.

Thanks for your answer.

Another thing I have been thinking about--anyone who heard the woman who sent Lindsey's brother home and was around at the time of that incident, might assume Lindsey was walking home alone as her brother had been sent home and waited for her.

 ::MonkeyNoNo::

Human Remains Found In Toledo-
http://www.kirotv.com/news/22611317/detail.html

No info yet as to age, gender or race.

That looks pretty close to a road.How far is Toledo from McCleary?

I was looking into these remains today and wondered if there was a Lewis County connection to this case. Not that there needs to be, but I was curious.

McCleary to Toledo, WA is apx. 73 miles as per google map, but this article says apx. 50 miles...>>>>>>>

An 8-year-old boy out playing Thursday in rural Lewis County discovered skeletal remains.

Aerial footage of the scene captured by KOMO News' Air 4 shows detectives combing the area with cadaver dogs. A search team also can be seen forming up near the rural site.

Grays Harbor County Undersheriff Rick Scott said authorities do not have any indication that the remains might belong to Lindsey Baum, the young girl who disappeared June 26 in the small town of McCleary, about 50 miles away.
http://blog.oregonlive.com/nwheadlines/2010/02/8-year-old_boy_finds_human_rem.html

Thanks for the info Nut.

The remains were found at a location along the 100-block of Cougar Lane. Stacey Brown also said it is too early to determine if the person was the victim of a crime. She said the remains are most likely those of an adult.

Cadaver dogs are being called in to help search for additional clues, including something that might lead to the identity. The investigation includes checking missing persons records.

Grays Harbor County Undersheriff Rick Scott said authorities do not have any indication that the remains might belong to Lindsey Baum, the young girl who disappeared June 26 in the small town of McCleary, about 50 miles away.

Undersheriff Scott confirmed with Examiner.com that the remains are not those of Lindsey Baum and that the case of the discovered remains is being handled by Lewis County Sheriff's office.

http://www.examiner.com/x-34328-Seattle-Headlines-Examiner~y2010m2d19-Officials-say-remains-found-by-8-yearr-old-near-Olympia-not-believed-to-be-those-of-Susan-Cox-Powell

http://www.kirotv.com/news/22639498/detail.html

Mom Searching For Missing McCleary Daughter Ordered To Pay Back Unemployment

Posted: 6:25 pm PST February 22, 2010
Updated: 6:52 pm PST February 22, 2010

RAINIER, Wash. -- Her daughter's been missing since June and now the mother of Lindsey Baum has been ordered to repay unemployment benefits the state said she never should have received.

Melissa Baum took three months unpaid leave from her job as a call center operator and then filed for unemployment when her employer said she could not return to work part-time.

Baum left her job so she could assist in the search for her daughter, Lindsey, who has been missing from McCleary since June 26.

“We discussed it when I did my initial interview for unemployment. They all knew what was going on, they approved me, I started getting unemployment,” Baum said.

The checks came for five weeks then just before Christmas the state said she was ineligible and asked her to send a $1,000 back.

“I paid into unemployment, I earned the unemployment and now they're saying I can't have it,” Baum said.

Baum and her 13-year-old son just moved to the town of Rainier to live with relatives. She said she can no longer afford the rent for the house in McCleary where she knows her missing daughter is trying to get home to.

“It's very hard, extremely, and I put it off as long as I possibly could. I don't want to do it, but I don't have a choice,” Baum said.

She said she also doesn’t have the $1,000 the state of Washington is demanding her to pay back from unemployment benefits.

“It's just one more battle that I just don't have the time or energy to fight.” Baum said.

Due to federal privacy rules, the state could not make a comment on Baum’s case. They said the federal rules require Baum to pay back the benefits that she wrongly received.

Anyone with information about Lindsey’s disappearance is asked to call the Grays Harbor Sheriff’s Office at 1-866-915-8299 or send an e-mail to soadmin@co.grays-harbor.wa.us.

My heart goes out to MB.  It's bad enough her daughter is missing.  Now she has to pay back unemployment and has moved out of the house where Lindsey went missing. 

I really pary there would be some clue as to where Lindsey went.

I did not have sympathy for her at first, I always thought she wasn't "doing enough" until I found out she may have some mental issues.  If she does, I hope she gets the help she needs for Josh's sake.

Chi-M,

I totally agree, this reminds me so much of Rowan Ford.  http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2311.0 a little girl who went to church early to avoid what was going on at home.  And now with these "men" gathering at the pool party...

Where are you Lindsey????

http://www.king5.com/news/local/FBI-searching-home-of-missing-McCleary-girl-85558007.html

FBI searching home of missing Lindsey Baum

McCleary, Wash. – FBI agents are searching the home of Lindsey Baum, the 11-year-old girl who has been missing since June 2009, according to the Grays Harbor County Sheriff's Office.

Baum was last seen walking home from a friend's house about six blocks from her home on June 26, 2009.

The sheriff's office said area residents were told recently that they would see an increase in activity and searching of additional sites.

Friday's search was not the result of a search warrant. The sheriff's office says Lindsey's mother, Melissa, allowed the agents to come inside.

More searches are expected on Monday.

http://www.king5.com/news/local/FBI-searching-home-of-missing-McCleary-girl-85558007.html

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
MCCLEARY, Wash. - Nine months after 10-year-old Lindsey Baum vanished without a trace, FBI agents returned to the family home Friday to conduct a new search.

There is no new evidence or new tips that brought the FBI to the home where Lindsey was living before her nationally publicized disappearance last June.

Rather, investigators want to take a last chance to gather material from the home before Lindsey's mother, Melissa Baum, moves out of McCleary for good.

Grays Harbor County Undersheriff Rick Scott said Lindsey's room has been preserved untouched in the home since the evening of June 26, when she vanished while walking home from a friend's home.

Now that Lindsey's mother is moving in with relatives in Thurston County, investigators want to take this last opportunity to gather fibers, hair samples and other evidence from the home.

"An outside review of the investigation into the disappearance suggested another review of the home be made by CSI specialists, and the FBI team was available today," Undersheriff Scott told KOMO News.

He said the home has been searched at least three times before. This time, forensics experts will be taking samples of carpet, furniture, hair strands, materials in the family car and anything else that might help them if that type of evidence is ever needed.

"In the sad eventuality that her remains were found, detectives would have controlled samples to eliminate any trace evidence which might have come from the home rather than from any other source," Scott said.

Scott said there are no suspects at this time, and nothing should be read into Friday's search other than that the landlord may want to recarpet and repaint and make other changes to the house when Lindsey's mother moves.

So this is investigators' last chance to conduct a search before the home is refurbished.

The undersheriff said that Melissa Baum quit her job after her daughter disappeared to take part in the searches, which continued for several months, and now the mother needs to move because of strained finances.

A $20,000 reward has been offered for information leading to the discovery of Lindsey Baum.

Lindsey was 10 years old when she vanished; now she'd be 11, and her family is holding out hope that someone will come forward with information.

Investigators have received hundreds of tips, but no substantial leads. Volunteer searches have turned up nothing but frustration.

Over the last six months, Lindsey's mother and the police chief appeared on a national TV programs to urge anyone with information to call investigators, and Lindsey was even featured on the cover of People Magazine.

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/85571172.html

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
FBI Searches Home Of Missing McCleary Girl Before Family Moves

Posted: 3:23 pm PST February 26, 2010

MCCLEARY, Wash. -- The FBI is searching the home of a missing McCleary girl one last time before her family moves out.

Lindsey Baum’s family is moving to Rainier and Grays Harbor County Undersheriff Rick Scott said it’s the last chance to obtain samples of the old house before someone new moves in.

Baum was last seen June 26 when she disappeared while walking home from a friend's house. Two people spotted the then 10-year-old along the way, but she never made it home and investigators have found no evidence that could explain her disappearance

Scott said Friday's search was planned and is part of the FBI's review of the county's investigation.

Investigators are taking samples of carpet and other items inside the home to put into an evidence library in case they are ever needed for comparison. They are also doing a final search of Lindsey’s room which hasn’t been touched since she vanished, Scott said.

Samples are also being collected from Melissa Baum’s car, Lindsey’s mother, for possible future use.

Scott said the search and collecting samples are routine and that there are no new tips or information in the case.

Lindsey's family has two Web sites with information: http://lindseybaum.com/ and http://findlindseybaum.com/.

Lindsey is 4 feet 9 inches tall, 80 pounds, with brown hair and brown eyes. She was last seen wearing a light blue hooded pullover shirt and blue jeans.

Anyone with information about Lindsey’s disappearance is asked to call the Grays Harbor Sheriff’s Office at 1-866-915-8299 or send an e-mail to soadmin@co.grays-harbor.wa.us.

http://www.kirotv.com/news/22687279/detail.html

http://www.kirotv.com/news/22688415/detail.html

McCleary Mom Does Not Have To Pay Back Unemployment
Posted: 5:39 pm PST February 26, 2010

SEATTLE -- The mother of missing McCleary girl Lindsey Baum will not have to pay back unemployment benefits which she was ordered to do.

KIRO 7 spoke with Melissa Baum after she was given a notice that she was to pay $1,000 for unemployment checks that she was not suppose to receive.

Baum took three months unpaid leave from her job as a call center operator and then filed for unemployment when her employer said she could not return to work part-time. Baum left her job so she could assist in the search for her daughter who has been missing since June 26.

The checks came for five weeks then just before Christmas the state said she was ineligible and asked her to send a $1,000 back.

A top official with the Employment Security Division reached out to Melissa Baum after our story and said does not have to repay the money, but she remains ineligible for unemployment because she left work to search for her daughter and care for her son.

Thank you Lovin
So much for the Family Leave Act,they must not honor FLA in WA.

The Family Leave Act, to my knowledge, applies to companies with 50 or more employees.  Some states have modified it to less employees.  To my knowledge, you must apply with your employer and you must be willing to return to the same position you held.  I don't know about MB's employer and/or whether MB applied.

http://www.jacksonlewis.com/legalupdates/article.cfm?aid=1116
Washington Enacts Paid Family Leave Law
Posted: May 15, 2007
Page Tools:
Register for Email Alerts
For More Information Contact:
Kristin Bell
Michael A. Griffin
Barry Alan Johnsrud
Gina D. Wolverton
Related Practice Areas:
Disability, Leave and Health Management
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Making Washington the second state to mandate paid family leave, Governor Christine Gregoire has signed a bill directing an as yet undesignated state agency to establish and administer the family leave insurance program slated to begin on October 1, 2009.  Under the new law, approved on May 8, 2007, employees in the state are entitled to up to five weeks' paid family leave "because of the birth of a child of the employee and in order to care for the child," or "because of the placement of a child with the employee for adoption."  The law also provides certain employees with re-employment after taking leave. 

Insurance Benefits
Family leave insurance benefits will be payable to an employee "during a period in which the individual is unable to perform his or her regular or customary work because he or she is on family leave."  To qualify for insurance benefits, the employee must have worked at least 680 hours during the employee's qualifying year; and provided written notice of the intent to take leave. 
The employee is entitled to a maximum of five weeks of family leave insurance during the application year.  The wage replacement is capped at $250/week.  However, benefits are not payable during the first seven calendar days of family leave, regardless of whether those days are paid or unpaid by the employer.  Part-time employees will be eligible for a prorated payment.

Re-employment Requirements
The new law also requires employers to restore qualified employees to a position if:

the employer has more than 25 employees; and
the individual has been with the employer at least twelve months and worked at least 1250 hours during the previous twelve-month period.
The new law does not affect an employee's right under the Washington Family Leave Act (RCW 49.78) to be restored (1) to the same job he or she had before taking leave; or (2) to an equivalent position with equivalent employment benefits, pay, and other terms and conditions of employment at a workplace within 20 miles of the employee's workplace when leave commenced. 

Concurrent Leave
Any leave taken under the new law must be taken concurrently with any unpaid leave under the federal Family and Medical Leave Act of 1993 or under the Washington Family Leave Act.  Additionally, employers may require that leave be taken concurrently with any leave allowed under the terms of a collective bargaining agreement or other employer policy, as applicable, for the birth or placement of a child.  Employers must give employees written notice of this requirement.

Another site with info
http://www.nwwlc.org/pdf/self_help/Family_Leave_Laws.pdf

Thank you for the info Sister
Maybe Melissa didn't work enough hours or enough months and with all of the stipulations of the Family Leave Act,maybe somehow she just doesn't qualify.
I feel bad for Lindseys Mama.

We can only continue to pray that Lindsey will be found and that the new investigators have a hunch or clues in this case.

Praying for Lindsey ::MonkeyTears::

Authorities hit the streets

Federal and local authorities launched a new push for clues in the disappearance of 11-year-old Lindsey Baum on Monday as teams of investigators returned to the McCleary street where she was last seen.

Like door-to-door salesmen in blue windbreakers,  FBI agents and local officers spent the day systematically knocking on the doors along Maple Street, greeting many residents with questions that had been asked before.

Grays Harbor Undersheriff Rick Scott said detectives and federal agents intend to re-question many people along the neighborhood street as part of a larger review of the investigation.

“We’re not plowing any new ground,” Scott said. “We’re just going over what we’ve already done.”

Investigators are following new recommendations from the FBI Child Abduction Rapid Deployment team, which specializes in kidnapping cases across the country. Scott said the FBI team has been advising detectives since the beginning of the search, but its experts recently finished a third-party review of the investigation and offered suggestions on new approaches and follow-up interviews.

“Today was sort of the kick-off,” Scott said, later adding, “These are the techniques and these are the recommendations that have been successful (in other cases).”

Lindsey Baum went missing on June 26 while walking a short distance back home along Maple Street. She was sighted twice along the way, but  investigators have found no evidence explaining how she disappeared. It was just days before her 11th birthday.

“It’s as comprehensive today as it was on June 26,” Scott said Monday, explaining that without specific evidence they must continue investigating all possibilities.
 

 


Forensic experts also conducted a final search of Lindsey’s house Friday to follow up on one of the review recommendations before her mother moved out of the area.

FBI agents teamed up with local officers from several departments Monday to make the door-to-door interviews. Scott said departments from Aberdeen, McCleary, Montesano, Lacey, Thurston County, Mason County, the State Patrol and others volunteered officers to help in the effort.

A couple dozen officers combed through the streets, stopping to chat with homeowners. Police cruisers crowded the main roads.

Scott said investigators have prioritized the expert recommendations and hope to keep the extra officers around for several days to complete the new round of interviews.

“We want to do it until it’s done,” he said.

The FBI brought in profilers, psychologists, computer technicians and many others to work on the case, Scott said. They also provided a mobile command center to serve as a clearinghouse for any information collected.

“There’s a lot of resources the FBI can bring to the table,” he said.

Some residents invited investigators inside. Others hung in the doorways as answering questions, the sessions lasting minutes or hours.

Scott said the federal review found the initial investigation very thorough, but they want to go back and see if they can turn up anything new, any small detail that might break the case.

“There’s a method to the madness,” he said. “We need the public’s understanding.”

He asked McCleary residents to continue the cooperation and support they have always offered investigators throughout the past eight months.

Standing outside his mother’s Maple Street home, David Belcher said investigators spent about three hours Monday morning interviewing him and the others at the house.

“They were really polite,” he said. “Whatever it takes, as long as they find out who did this.”

Though he lives in Central Park, Belcher said he often visits his mother and aunt in McCleary to help them around the house. It was the second time he had been interviewed for the case.

“(This time was) more thorough,” he said. “They really spent a lot more time on it.”

“Somebody had to have seen something,” he added.

Scott said some residents have questioned the redundancy of the second, or in some cases third or fourth, interviews. But he said few were caught off guard or upset.

“The community kind of knew something was going to happen,” he said. “Now they’re seeing what they heard was coming.”

Scott said investigators hope to build some momentum over the next several days and have plans in place to follow up on any potential break-throughs in the case.

“We’re going to go at this for as long as it takes,” he said.
http://**/articles/2010/03/02/local_news/doc4b8d73a0ad350595677110.txt

Karma thank-you, glad to see this happening.

You're very welcome No Rose
I do hope they get detailed results this time around and I hope this isn't just another end all as in"we did everything we could"and close the case.

Note the html error is in the article, I coppied it directly from the sight.

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/86288577.html

New search for Lindsey Baum launched
Story Published: Mar 3, 2010 at 5:34 PM PST
Story Updated: Mar 3, 2010 at 11:55 PM PST

(http://media.komonews.com/images/100127_Lindsey_Baum.jpg)
MCCLEARY, Wash. -- FBI agents have teamed-up with local investigators to fan through the small town of McCleary, hoping to find something that leads back to a
href="http://search.komonews.com/default.aspx?ct=r&q=%22lindsey%20baum%22" target="_blank">Lindsey Baum.

"I'm glad they are. At least you know there's somebody looking for her," said McCleary resident Donna Jebbett.

Baum was just 10 years old when she vanished while walking home from a friend's house last June.

Nine months have passed since, but investigators are no closer to solving this case than the day the girl disappeared.

So they're starting over.

"If it was my kid, or someone I knew, then I would want them doing this," said Terran Sisk, an area resident.

The FBI is putting its best resources into the Baum case. The agency moved in a high-tech command center to coordinate efforts, and has profilers and psychologists analyzing evidence.

Teams of two are going out to re-interview neighbors, and comb through what's already been collected.

"We're not plowing any new ground, but we're re-plowing a lot of old ground to see if there's some nugget of information there that we might have missed," said Grays Harbor County Undersheriff Rick Scott.

Investigators made a final search of Baum's home last week because her mother was moving out.

The girl's disappearance has had a profound effect on the close-knit community, and some neighbors are still scared.

"You don't see anybody, even kids, down at the park playing very much anymore. The park's right next door to me and, you don't see kids out there playing anymore," said Jebbett.

Investigators say they'll keep searching for another eight to 12 days, but they say they'll never rest until the Baum family learn the truth in their daughter's disappearance.

Prayers for Lindsey that this new investigation will have some answers  ::MonkeyAngel::

I am so glad they are doing. I pray they find something that leads to where Lindsey is.

http://www.thenewstribune.com/2010/03/05/1096789/grays-harbor-county-no-new-evidence.html

No new evidence in Lindsey Baum case
THE OLYMPIAN
Published: 03/05/10 6:20 am | Updated: 03/05/1012:46 pm

No breakthrough evidence has surfaced in the renewed questioning of McCleary residents, but investigators say they are collecting valuable details about the day Lindsey Baum disappeared, according to The Daily World of Aberdeen.

Federal and local authorities continue to canvass the city for clues, Grays Harbor Undersheriff Rick Scott said.

He said investigators are conducting much more thorough interviews of residents along the Maple Street area where the 11-year-old girl went missing. The interviews are part of third-party recommendations from FBI experts on the Child Abduction Rapid Deployment team.

Investigators have taken hours to question some residents, Scott said, allowing those people to elaborate on details they might have left out of earlier interviews.

“We’re getting a lot of information,” he said. He later added, “It’s starting to paint a better picture.”

Law enforcement officials ask that anyone who might have information about the whereabouts of Lindsey to come forward. Tips can be called in to 866-915-8299, e-mailed to soadmin@co.grays-harbor.wa.us or mailed to P.O. Box 305, McCleary, WA 98557.

http://www.examiner.com/x-1168-Crime-Examiner~y2010m3d5-Lindsey-Baum-update-Reward-doubles-as-search-continues-for-missing-Washington-girl

Lindsey Baum update: Reward doubles as search continues for missing Washington girl
March 5, 6:40 PM
Crime Examiner
Cindy Adams

Lindsey Baum update: Reward doubles as search continues for missing Washington girl

On June 26, 2009, 10-year-old McCleary, Wash. girl Lindsey Baum disappeared. A reward for information that assists authorities in finding her has now been doubled.

Lindsey Baum vanished last summer while walking home from a friends house on a Friday evening at around 9:15 p.m. Lindsey had planned to sleepover at the friend's home, however, the girl’s mother said no to the idea.

Grays Harbor County Sheriff’s Office and the FBI have increased the reward in the case from $10,000 to $20,000, according to The News Tribune.

According to local authorities, investigators plan to increase police presence in the McCleary area during the next few weeks, as well as reinvestigate and re-search the entire area in an effort to find Lindsey.

Anyone with information regarding the case is urged to call the sheriff’s office at 360-249-3711, extension 543.

New search for Lindsey Baum launched

New video below

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/86288577.html?tab=video

 ::MonkeyAngel::

Excellent, they really mean business now, which I'm praying will get some answers soon  ::MonkeyAngel::

Me too No Rose
I thought it was interesting that they interviewd a young guy named Terrin(sp?) Sisk which was a name we were looking at in the beginning of this case.Also the Jebber(sp?)guy who comes in town to help his Mom and GrandMom out......they talked to them about 3 hours I read.

Hi Karma and All,  I wonder if the FBI has gone up to do forensics on the 2 cellars on the north edge of McClary?  Ya never know.  That was one of the most bizarre parts of this case, the searchers being hailed down by this couple, telling them to search that area to prove they were not involved in her disappearance.  Their dogs barked at the cellar the night she went missing, smoke was coming from the cellar and the couple said they didn't even know when last it had been opened.  The male of the couple was said to be drinking with Tag that night down on Main St   ::MonkeyEek::  It is certainly food for thought and I'd love to see it either ruled in or out of the investigation.  Keeps ticklin' at my brain, so to say    ::rhino::

That is just plain bizarre, I sure hope so. One thing I must have missed, the male of the couple was said to be drinking with Tag that night down on Main St   ::MonkeyEek::

I just woke up to a message that they have a house search going on.  One of the key people they have questioned. 

I'm waiting to hear back.  I do know who's house it is.  Just waiting for more info.  I'm surprised no one is posting about it.  Should hit the news I would think.  I'm waiting for my contact to get back to me. 

Wow, thank-you for that info

My contact is very reliable, they say this is a SEARCH...

Tag and Libby are back together now.   


Searching Tag & Libby's House March 8, 2010

(http://i708.photobucket.com/albums/ww90/doubledeck/baumsearchK3810-1.jpg)

Thank-you

just got word they are also searching Kara's house now

Great, thanks

Yes thank you DoubleDecker.  I think everyone's wrapped up in Amber's case today. 

I hope this brings some answers.  It's time for Lindsey to come home.  ::MonkeyAngel::

 ::MonkeyAngel::

http://www.kirotv.com/news/22774021/detail.html
(Video avail)
New Search For Clues In McCleary Girl's Disappearance
Monday, March 8, 2010

DD thanks for the heads up. Sorry, as Lovin said been over on the amber threads for the past week. I hope this leads to finding little Lindsey. Please keep up updated!

Wow Kara's and tags and libby's, glad to hear of it!

Thanks to all Monkeys for the updates, yes Muffy I agree....it is time for this angel to be found and brought home!

Will be praying for some good news!  ::MonkeyAngel::

I wonder, or can't remember if a througoh search was done of Kara's house before?  I don't recall Tag and Libby's house ever being searched. 

sorry self edit...I am still not sure i spelled it correctly... ::MonkeyDevil::

Please bring Lindsey home.

 ::MonkeyAngel::

DD... Thanks for the news of the new searches. 

IMO The events of the night Lindsey went missing combined with the known activities at Tag & Libbys make me very suspicious of that group/place.    Has any more info come from the searches?      We really need a break in this case. 

Chi-M

First Thank you Doubledecker for the encouraging news with photo. 

Hi AZ,  I think we learned LE have done over 40 searches at the Nelson's.  To me that makes yesterday's search almost remarkable, eh?   It makes one wonder what brought them back so many times.  I wonder if this search is just part of an organized sweep to redo everything?  xox

One would think with all those searches of the Nelson's place, and thank-you I didn't realize there were that many  ::MonkeyEek:: that LE must be thinking something happened to Lindsey there. I don't know what else to think.

Just curious if any of you saw this on DD's site

http://truecrimes.50.forumer.com/viewtopic.php?f=343&t=2074

Melissa Baum saying she saw Lindsey at 9:15 the
night Lindsey Baum went missing...Ron and Don show
August 28, 2009 3pm..30:33 interview starts with
Mbaum on the video


Host:
Melissa, when was the last time you saw your daughter
and do you remember what she was wearing the last
time that you saw her?

MB:
The last time I saw her was at um nine-fifteen
on that night, and that was actually, we found since
then that is the longest day of the year, it didn’t get dark
until after ten-thirty that night.

No I have not seen this, very interesting indeed  ::MonkeyEek::

Hello monkeys...

What time do we say she was last seen on the time lines all the monkeys put together?

I'm confused...it was earlier then that wasn't it?

Hi Scandi... so much info in this case, sometimes hard to keep up and remember it correctly, but since I am the one who stated LE had been to Libby's over 40 times, I remember this correctly... The house was not SEARCHED  40 times, just that LE were there to talk to people over 40 times(is what I was told).  The new search with the CARD TEAM is the first time I have heard they actually SEARCHED Tag and Libby's house.  They also luminoled the house. 

They are searching a lot of houses.. so hard to say if they suspect something at Libby's or if her house is on the list to be searched because it was known Lindsey was there that day. 

They have been asking a lot of different people questions and they are getting new info that they had not known before or info that was ignored before this.  I do not believe they are going to ignore anything at all now. 

They also have all the info that was stated the first time around and now they can ask again and go back and compare what they were told.  I am sure the lies are going to start showing up.  Rick Scott stated they were not plowing any new ground... I know that is not true, they have new info and they are responding to that info.  I believe they will get to the bottom of this mess of a case.  They are "listening" whereas, at first a LOT of what LE was told was ignored.  Also since LE first heard info, it has been changing, and they have to be seeing all these lies.  And they have info we have never heard about.  Names are popping up we have never heard of... so I am confident they are on this case and not going to overlook anything.

DD, thank-you, that is all good to know.

http://**/articles/2010/03/10/local_news/doc4b97feb8c5672122969959.txt

Officials continue push for new leads
 
Wednesday, March 10, 2010 2:11 PM PST

Local and federal investigators plan to continue their push for new information into next week as they work on leads arising from recent interviews in the search for missing Lindsey Baum.

Grays Harbor Undersheriff Rick Scott said detectives and FBI agents have received huge amounts of information from McCleary residents as they work to create a “snapshot” of the rural town on the summer evening Lindsey disappeared.

“All of that’s helping us to more thoroughly investigate leads,” he said. “The focus of the case is much clearer.”

After a week of questioning residents, Scott said he hopes to keep extra officers from other regional departments around until next week to continue the recent drive for new evidence. He said deputies and FBI agents may conduct follow-up interviews beyond next week as information surfaces.

“It’s not like we’re going to just put the lid back on the box,” he said. “I don’t want to shut the stove off when we’ve got something cooking.”

Lindsey Baum went missing on June 26 while walking a short distance home from a friend’s house. Investigators have found no evidence in the past eight months to explain her disappearance.

Investigators are conducting their interviews based on recommendations from the FBI Child Abduction Rapid Deployment team, which recently reviewed the investigation and offered its expertise on the case. 

“It’s doing exactly what the CARD team said,” Scott said of the recent interviews. “These are the techniques that have proved successful in their other cases.”
 
Scott said the recent interviews, which can last hours, allow residents to elaborate on their earlier statements to officers and provide new details.

He said investigators have been “pleasantly surprised” with the amount of detail many residents have been able to provide.

All of those details help “paint a picture” of the town on June 26.

“It’s like when Mount St. Helens blew,” he said. “People remember where they were and what they were doing. ... This was an emotional event for them.”

Scott said detectives are also asking residents about their theories on the case or rumors floating around the community.

“Now they’ve had a chance to think about it,” he said, later adding, “Everybody’s had a chance to play armchair investigator here. ... Some of (the ideas) seem plausible.”

As details come in, Scott said he and others felt the interviews were developing into new leads similar to other child abduction cases that were solved. Scott said he hopes and prays they can make a breakthrough in locating Lindsey.

“We are definitely making progress,” he said.

Law enforcement officials are asking anyone who might have any information about the whereabouts of Lindsey Baum to come forward with tips. Tips can be made by phone at 1-866-915-8299 or via e-mail at soadmin@co.grays-harbor.wa.us. A $20,000 reward is available for information leading to her.

Hello Canadianmonkey.  I think that the reason everyone is  ::MonkeyEek:: regarding above statement by MB is because KK has always stated that she was the last one to see Lindsey approximately 9:15-9:30 pm when she left KK's house to head home.  If the "original" timeline is correct, Lindsey and her friends went to the video store approx 8:15pm then Lindsey went home to take a bath and change.  KK's daughter, Josh and Lindsey walked from the Baum residence to KK's house.  Very detailed timeline by Janet (Tomikosmom) here: http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=5703.0  So if MB is now saying that she saw Lindsey at 9:15, could lindsey have made it home?

Excellent point, and something that I have been wondering from the beginning.

Although I have not wavered from my position that Lindsey's brother and/or mother should be a focus by investigators ... a focus in the process of elimination ... I believe that Melissa Baum meant to say 8:15 PM rather than 9:15 PM in her guest appearance on the Ron and Don Show.  8:15 PM is the approximate time that Lindsey and friend were at the Baum home prior to leaving for the Kampen residence with Josh in tow.

Janet

++++++++


Linda Cunningham

The Olympian – June 30, 2009

MCCLEARY – ... Linda Cunningham, owner of McCleary Video, said she remembers Lindsey coming into her store with a group of friends to rent movies around 8:15 Friday night. “They were all laughing and joking and having a good time.”

http://www.theolympian.com/southsound/story/896613.html


Kara Kampen

KaraK
Re: Lindsey Baum, 10y missing from McCleary, WA 6/26/09
« Reply #992 on: July 04, 2009, 09:13:38 PM »

Video store - Took place at 8:19 according to the video store records - so it happened before she went home to change. The video store is less than 1/2  block from where the girls were swimming and they went to the video store with the friends who they were swimming with.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=5541.msg864342;topicseen#msg864342


Ron and Don Show
Friday August 28, 2009 - 3:00 pm

Melissa Baum - 7:59

Working Link:
http://www.mynorthwest.com/?nid=577&a=9909&p=&n=

In the past ... my position in regards to Josh Baum was upheld by some and not others.  That is OK.  The truth remains ellusive and ... speculation based on what is out there is where it is at.  Justice for Lindsey Baum implies that all avenues of suspicion should be explored.

Janet

++++++





TIMELINES AND THEORIES
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=5703.0

Maybe I am wrong, but IMO this site is not about who sides with whom.  Bumping opinions that support or are different from our own reeks of ego-inflated I told you so.  Bad form, IMO.
It has been obvious to most researchers that the players in this case have lied, lied, and then lied again and their stories have changed over and over.  Everyone is delighted that CARD is starting from the beginning and they assuredly will uncover the truth, IMO.  The purpose is to find Lindsey -- but that's just my opinion.

Hi Janet, glad to see you in here again, I sure have my doubts on many things, and I keep going back to my original thoughts. You know sometimes you get a gut feeling, and it just doesn't go away  ::MonkeyCool::

I know what you mean No Rose.  However ... until the truth is revealed and ... justice prevails for Lindsey Baum ... ALL avenues of speculation is where it is at.

Have a good day.

Janet
9:40 AM PT

++++++

Thank-you, you have a good day also.  I'm really hoping now with this new investigation we will hear something soon  ::MonkeyAngel::

NO SEARCH WARRANT?

When the argument that Lindsey had with her brother minutes prior to her disappearance is considered ... when the underlying family dynamics which were already known to CPS and LE are considered and ... when it is consider how close Lindsey was to home when observed by witness sighting … I cannot comprehend ... in the process of elimination ... why there was not an official search warrant immediately issued by LE and approved by a judge ... something akin to the September, 2009 searches.

If police activity that reflected the magnitude of the September, 2009 searches had taken place at the Baum residence/property ... I assume the media would have covered it accordingly.

In the majority of missing person cases … the family is the immediate focus and … from there the investigation branches out.

Could it be that the focus of the investigation has never been on Lindsey's mother and brother as persons of interest is because there were red flags from the past … red flags that LE and CPS did not want exposed ... red flags that LE and CPS disregarded ... red flags that should have been addressed ...

Janet


++++++

Search warrants issued in Lindsey Baum case
Sep 26, 2009 at 3:58 PM PST

MCCLEARY, Wash. - In what could be a big break in the case of a missing 11-year-old girl, authorities executed search warrants Friday at two locations to seek evidence in the mysterious disappearance of Lindsey Baum.

The searches, both in the McCleary area, cover so much ground that agents were brought in from the FBI, along with detectives in the Grays Harbor County Sheriff's Office and King County Sheriff's Office .....
 
More:
http://www.katu.com/news/61475637.html

Unless it is revealed otherwise ... I will continue to ask myself the following questions regarding Lindsey Baum's disappearance:

1.  Following the witness sighting ... is it possible that an impulsive action by someone close to Lindsey unintentionally ... in the act of wrongdoing ... caused her death?

2.  Did Lindsey stop at the Shell Station to retrieve her bike and met with foul play?

3.  Did Lindsey make it home and it was there that something went terribly wrong?

4.  In a sincere attempt to protect a loved one  ... is it possible assistance to cover up was requested and provided?

5.  Considering there have been no arrests ... could there be underlying legal issues encompassing the questioning of an underage person of interest without any concrete evidence? 

Janet

Questions are good.
Unfortunately, there is a great divide between what is known as "facts" and what somebody told somebody that told somebody, who then changed their story.
We do not know for a fact if Lindsey took a shower at home, we do not know for a fact if Lindsey wanted to spend the night at KKs house or if KKs daughter wanted to spend the night with Lindsey, we do not know for a fact when the bike was taken or retrieved from the filling station, we do not know for a fact what time Lindsey arrived at KKs house or if she ever did, we do not know for a fact if the "witnesses" saw her coming or going, we do not know for a fact where else she went that day or that night, we do not know for a fact where else the girls went swimming that day or what else they did, we do not know for a fact all who have or have not taken lie detector tests, we do not know for a fact if MB even saw Lindsey before she left home, we do not know for a fact who else what at Lindsey's house, we do not know for a fact who was at KKs house, we do not know for a fact what Lindsey was afraid of, we do not know for a fact what has happened to the monies donated . . . because based on what people say on a particular day, their "facts" change constantly.  Bottom line, all we know is Lindsey is missing and needs to be found.

Amen !!  We have zero proof of what we have been told is 100% fact.

Were there any updates from Undersheriff Rick Scott regarding the outcome of this search which was deemed warranted eight months following the disappearance of Lindsey Baum?

Janet

I haven't heard anything. ::MonkeyNoNo::

http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/lindsey-baum-missing-girl-fbi/story?id=10107104
Special FBI Team Joins Hunt for Missing Girl
High-Tech Tools Join Old-Fashioned Police Work in Search for Lindsey Baum, 11
By PIERRE THOMAS, LISA A. JONES and
TED GERSTEIN
March 16, 2010

The disappearance last summer of 10-year-old Lindsey Baum continues to haunt her family and her small hometown of McCleary, Wash., pop. 1,500. Now the FBI has stepped in, deploying an array of cutting edge law enforcement techniques in an effort to crack the mystery.


"To the person or persons who stole my daughter," reads an open letter Baum wrote to the kidnapper she imagines. "Please let my daughter go. She needs her family. I don't care who you are, I just want my Lindsay back safely."

Watch the full story tonight on "World News" and "Nightline" at 11:35 p.m. ET

Last month, ABC News accompanied local police and members of the FBI's Child Abduction Rapid Deployment (CARD) team as they worked on the case.

The task force questioned two-thirds of the town's residents. They also set up a massive command post with state-of-the-art equipment capable of tracking down leads around the country. An FBI computer database tracked leads as they came in and identified sex offenders who may have been in the area at the time of Lindsey's disappearance.

"Thousands of children go missing every year," said Kevin Perkins, assistant director of the FBI's criminal investigation division. "Many of them are runaways in family issues. But there's between 100 and 200 cases a year where it is a stranger abduction. These are very, very serious crimes that the FBI places a high priority on. There's no greater crisis in a community, and I can't imagine a greater crisis for either a parent or a community, then to have a child go missing."

The questions for the local police and FBI's CARD team: Was it an abduction? Or was it an accident? Where could Lindsay be now?

The model allowed the FBI to identify twelve new persons of interest in the case, inside and outside of McCleary, with at least two people of high interest.

 ::MonkeyShocked::

Thanks Lovinlife.

Janet

Wow... looks like some good news here for a change. That's terrific.

For some reason, I still think this is a stranger abduction. That was my initial impression and I still feel that way. I also do not think this was someone from McCleary, but I could be wrong.

Some of my early impressions focused on Rt 8 and the Shell gas station. To me - this was KEY.

There has been a ton of investigation in this case... both by LE and online. There has been a lot of attention... and there have even been a few locals that have gotten an enema and still it's at a standstill. To me, that confirms it's not a local and a stranger abduction. After all this time - something would have been found to link someone to what happened to Lindsey if this was 100% local. To me, it seems unsolved because it is not local and the person is not on the radar.

I sure hope I'm wrong and the FBI is about to close this case with a major arrest or two. Personally, I feel it's one person, and a crime of opportunity.

Sometimes - crimes are just opportunity and in our zest to find a missing link - well, there is no link and the crime goes unsolved because of that very fact.

Thank-you for this new info  ::MonkeyAngel::

wow this is great! I hope they are on their way to finding out what happened to this little girl.

Page 2

'Every Place Possible'

The FBI brought in profilers to analyze the behavior of persons of interest and to help develop a sense of who the possible perpetrator might be. Profilers also studied Lindsey's behavior and personality for clues.

"FBI agents who work these child abduction cases on a full-time basis can come in and they can quickly discern from the behavior patterns of those associated with the case certain aspects of things," said Perkins. "They can look at the subjects that might have already been identified. They can look at registered sex offenders in the area to determine where were these people, what were they doing? There are certain techniques that you use in grid searches that make sure that you look every place possible that this child could be."

Drawing on interviews, cell phone data, ATM videos and surveillance cameras from the day of Lindsey's disappearance, the FBI built a model and timeline of the day Lindsey vanished.

"Somebody saw something and somebody suspects something," said Melissa Baum. "Somebody knows something and they're not coming forward. I think that's my greatest frustration through this all is, I know there's somebody out there and for whatever reason, they're not sharing whatever information that they have. Whether they honestly don't believe that it's important or that it will make a difference."

The sheriff and FBI agree with Baum's sentiment.  While an arrest may not be imminent, police say the case is active and they are hopeful.

Baum said she remains hopeful that these efforts will lead her daughter back to her. She said she is constantly searching, praying and wondering.

"I honestly believe that my daughter's alive.... What kills me is she's out there itching to be home and she's not. And every day that goes by is one more day that she's missing. And I feel like our world is standing still and I'm afraid to move with the rest of the world because I don't want her to miss out on anything."


http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/lindsey-baum-missing-girl-fbi/story?id=10107104&page=2

 

I was distracted and lost track of time.

An overview of the Nightline special would be appreciated.

Thank you.

Good Night All!

 ::HelloKitty::

Janet
9:30 PM PT

Nightline was also on at 11:30 PM PT ... so I did not miss the Lindsey segment afterall.

The following video is exactly what appeared on Nightline.

Janet

+++++++


Go behind the scenes of a 9-month search for a 10-year-old girl.

Video:
http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/TheLaw/lindsey-baum-missing-girl-fbi/story?id=10107104

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/88224357.html

Sources: Persons of interest ID'd in girl's disappearance

by KOMO Staff & ABC News

McCLEARY, Wash. -- A renewed investigative effort in the search for a 10-year-old girl who vanished last year has identified a dozen persons of interest, law enforcement sources told ABC News.

Nightline reporters were given behind-the-scenes access to the FBI's Child Abduction Rapid Deployment (CARD) team, which has been leading the search for Lindsey Baum.

Lindsey disappeared while walking home from a friend's house last June.

Investigators from multiple agencies have spent months searching for the girl, and the FBI recently moved in a high-tech command center to coordinate efforts.

Agents with the CARD team have been checking hours of ATM security camera video taken from cash machines throughout McCleary and the surrounding area, looking for anything that seems out of place.

They have also been checking cell phone records to see who was in the area when Lindsey vanished.

"We can start putting a timeline together," FBI Assistant Director Kevin Perkins told Nightline. "And we may see that call and a certain cell phone and, perhaps, our missing individual coming together at a certain place at a certain time."

The agency also has profilers and psychologists analyzing evidence.

Detectives from the sheriff's department are working with the FBI to check new sites that might be connected to the case, and they're also re-searching sites checked previously.


The investigators are also interviewing most of the people in the town, hoping for new leads and watching for unease.

"We're looking for the whole picture, but there are sometimes when you get a gut reaction or gut feeling about a certain individual or their reaction to your questioning," sheriff's Det. Keith Peterson said.

Investigators have talked with more than two-thirds of the town's population.

Drawing on the interviews, searches, security camera video and cell phone data, the FBI has built a model and timeline of the day Lindsey was last seen.

Lindsey's mother, Melissa Baum, thinks someone is holding out.

"I guess what gets me is I know aliens didn't just beam her up and take her away," she said. "Somebody knows something."

Sources tell ABC news that 12 people identified as persons of interest in the case live inside and outside of McCleary, and at least two of those people are considered "high interest" by investigators.

While an arrest may not be imminent, police say the case is active and they are hopeful.

And Lindsey's mom is still spending every day working to find her daughter.

"I don't care who you are," she said. "I just want my Lindsey back safely."

This is what I am hearing.. it comes from a very reliable source. I believe it to be true.

I am told that one of the two high interest people looked at is Buddy Richards. He is the uncle of the girl who said she was hanging out with lindsey right before lindsey disappeared. This girl's father is loren richards... he drives a smalll white car(just in case any of the white car rumors are true, who knows on those) I am told buddy failed a ldt. From records it appears Loren is this girls father.

I was told early on that the guy (was told an uncle) who lived in the yard in a trailer behind this girls house had left town the day after lindsey went missing. I am told this person has never returned. But now I am told the person who took off the next day was actually LOREN, the girls father. I am told he returned the weekend of the golder search...but then took off again and never came back.


The richards live on Pine... this would make sense with the early on info about lindsey taking a different route home, and this would take her south and probably past mullins creek heading to pine.

when the 2nd witness showed up in the news, so did this girl saying she had been hanging out with lindsey right before she went missing. She had stated lindsey was her best friend, so it would seem they hung out a bit I guess.

__________________________________-

the other thing I am told is they searched a house last night. I am told evidence of some sort was found. I don't know at this time whose house was searched or what it was they found. I don't know if it has anything at all to do with the above info in this post. Trying to find out more.

Morning all Monkeys and guests,

Thanks for this new info. What does anyone know about the girl, Buddy Richards or Loren Richards? I searched here and didn't find anything.

I thought Kara's daughter was the last person Lindsey was with. Was the daughter in the group that was swimming and went to the movies store, or was she also at Kara's?

Sorry for all the questions, I am just so frustrated with this case and lack of information, but am glad there are fresh eyes and new people involved!

I also thought Kara's daughter was the last person Lindsey was with. Thanks for that info DD.

Interesting DD, thanks.

http://thedailyworld.com/articles/2010/03/18/local_news/doc4ba26b3d06540563333890.txt

Renewed search fruitful

BY JACOB JONES - The Daily World

Thursday, March 18, 2010 2:10 PM PDT

(http://thedailyworld.com/content/articles/2010/03/18/local_news/doc4ba26b3d06540563333890.jpg)

Investigators looking into the disappearance of 11-year-old Lindsey Baum say recent interviews with McCleary residents have helped raise interest in about a dozen individuals, but authorities stopped well short of calling any of them a suspect.

Grays Harbor Undersheriff Rick Scott said federal and local authorities collected vast amounts of anecdotal information during hundreds of interviews with residents, some of which identified the potential persons of interest.

“I’m not calling anybody a suspect,” he said.

Of the 12 or so people identified, Scott said two people were of “high interest.” Detectives will be closely examining their activity around the time that Baum disappeared on June 26.

Local authorities worked with the FBI in recent weeks to question McCleary residents living near where Baum went missing. The questions were suggested after a review of the investigation by experts with the FBI Child Abduction Rapid Deployment team.

“We’ve got a lot of stuff to look at,” Scott said.

Lindsey Baum went missing just days before her 11th birthday while walking a short distance home from a friend’s house. Investigators have found no evidence in the past nearly nine months to explain her disappearance.

In two-man teams, investigators went from house to house talking to residents. Scott said they questioned nearly 1,000 people for up to hours at a time, asking them about new details and any suspicions. Many brought forward new information or presented theories on what happened.

“Arising from the ashes of all this,” he said, “there’s probably a dozen people of interest and a couple people of heightened interest.”

Investigators were aware of many of the potential persons of interest, Scott said, but new information has sparked cause for additional scrutiny. He described them as a mix of local residents and others who may have been passing through the area in late June.

Scott said the results of the interviews were similar to other cases the FBI child abduction team has been able to solve. Local authorities are considering organizing a second push for information across a wider area.

“There was a lot of information,” he said. “It’s given birth to spin-off leads.”

Thanks so much DD for sharing that info.  You know we are all hanging with baited breath waiting for that big break in the case so Lindsey can be found and brought home.

A fellow poster mentioned she doesn't necessarily think the person Lindsey left with was the one who actually hurt/killed/took her.  That was a new direction for me to think about and it does seem to fit with LE now saying that 2 of the 12 people identified are of high interest.

Also thanks for the clarification on LE's visits to the Nelson home.

Realizing that what LE puts out in the public eye is done for a good reason, using the media as a tool as told to me by a searcher, I'm hoping they are closer than we realize in putting the case together.  Isn't it funny how LE can say so much while still saying so little?      ::dogwag::

Here's a picture of Lindsey I hadn't seen before:

http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/lindsey-baum-missing-girl-fbi/story?id=10107104&page=2

(http://a.abcnews.com/images/Nightline/ht_Lindsey_Baum_100316_mn.jpg)

FLASHBACK

Cops' Search in Lindsey Baum Case Comes Up Empty
Police Served Warrants, but Found No Evidence of Missing Girl
By DEAN SCHABNER
Oct. 4, 2009

http://abcnews.go.com/US/lindsey-baum-missing-months-disappearance/story?id=8744233

Thanks Tamikosmom,  Looks like things they are a changin' what with 2 people of 'high interest' now in the case. 

And MuffyBee, Thanks for the adorable photo of a happy Lindsey.  xox

Thanks for the article.  It made me think one thing they have done now is to profile Lindsey herself. 

She had such a personality, rather outgoing I think, possibly always up for adventure and strong minded with the hint of a soft side to her IMO.  With all the different facets about her it would most likely attract a certain type of abductor.  I am so thankful they have done this as it might help them put 2 + 2 together or else make a match to someone they are already looking at seriously.  Ya Ya

xox

Hold tight, Lindsey, we are looking for you.

 ::MonkeyAngel::

someone has told me tracking dogs were out and about around the rainbow apts and also around the street that Lindsey supposedly walked toward home that night

I have received some other info that is very encouraging as far as knowing CARD is really taking this seriously and is investigating thoroughly a person of interest... whether or not this person is responsible, who is to say, but at least we know that CARD is not fooling around and they are testing for forensics and in a BIG way... I'll give more details when this info becomes public... at the moment I don't feel it would be appropriate to say more about this...

 what I can say is... I know of some other searches and what they took...I don't know if this is to prove something they think happened or if this is to eliminate something they were told, but they are going to find out one way or another...

one thing we do know for sure... they are doing things that were never done previously and they are doing it in such a way as to prove or eliminate... again, they are not fooling around.  things are going to the lab and things places are being searched.

Thank-you DD

Thank you for giving us the bits that you can, doubledecker.  It's been too long and it's time to bring Lindsey home.   ::MonkeyAngel::

thank you dd for all the updates...is your website still working because i have been trying to sign in but its not letting me?


i am praying that lindsey is brought home soon  ::MonkeyAngel::

yes is still working... hmmm... maybe re-register.

http://findlindseybaum.blogspot.com/2010/03/day-of-pain-questions-and-closure-for.html
Day of Pain, Questions and Closure for Several Families of Missing Children
Friday March 26th,2010
Today for many is a day that will continue to be remembered in all the years to come. For us our own missing angel Lindsey Baum has now been missing 9 long months. As we battle with the pain and the questions that come with her disappearance and the lack of answers others spend today getting questions answered and laying their loved ones to rest.
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_7d2K-DrWbuY/S6z9Mq9WitI/AAAAAAAAAOM/tYfZGV492co/s200/Lindsey+Baum.jpg)  Lindsey Baum - 9 Months and still missing. So many questions still sit unanswered. Life has not gone on for many of those who love her...
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_7d2K-DrWbuY/S6z9ULAinnI/AAAAAAAAAOU/RlNvDphOc8Q/s200/Amber+Dubois.jpg)  Amber Dubois- Amber Dubois, from Escondido, CA, was laid to rest today. Some questions now answered while others still plague her family and loved ones. R.I.P. sweet angel may justice soon be yours!
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_7d2K-DrWbuY/S6z9yKmqxCI/AAAAAAAAAOc/y63vFFs2MY0/s200/Somer+Thompson.jpg)  Somer Thompson - Suspect officially charged with the rape and premeditated murder of this innocent child. The family has one less question unanswered but many more that no amount of answers will ever satisfy. 

anyone hear they arrested someone?  I just got word they have, however, this is not coming from one of my normal sources so trying to veryify...

any locals who can veryify? 

I don't want to say the name until I am sure of this...

they are not on the jail registery, too soon, so does no good to look there. 

I'll post as soon as I can veryify yes or no.....

let's hope this is it !!!!  btw, it is someone we have been mentioning.

okay someone who knows the relative of this person says IS NOT TRUE... hmmm
so .... so far, no one is hearing this that should have heard if true,

so... I'm going with not true...

now question is... who is putting out these rumors...

okay I have figured out who is starting the rumors   ... idiot people, they never give up with the nonsense.  Guess had a friend of theirs start the rumor...

IT'S A RUMOR... started on purpose.

WTH is going on with these people. A rumor started on purpose, how sickening  ::MonkeyNoNo::

I'm not saying this person might not end up arrested at some point, it is very possible they might be...there is some things that might lead to one wondering about that... but just because there is one or two things that might make a person go hmmm about someone, doen't mean they are guilty or are arrested. Someone certainly wants me to believe that though...

why don't they just post it themself... LOL

I'm just so confused with these games being played with some people in that town. ::MonkeyNoNo::

Hi DD,  What you say seems to possibly give a reason for what Keith Peterson said, quoted in the article on the last page here,  "there are sometimes when you get a gut reaction or gut feeling about a certain individual or their reaction to your questioning, . . .".  It hit me straight in the gut, so much so I forgot to grab the link.

I think LE must be very close to nailing this case.  They were so reserved for so long and are now taking a different tack with Lindsey's case.  Just my feeling, but I think they are now assuming they have the edge, letting the people know, and this positivity will lead to the exposure of this person/people involved with her disappearance.



PS:  When I say they are assuming the 'edge', I associate that with sales which is my profession.  There is a point to where one has enough knowledge in their product {here, the case and  their gut reaction now being made public}, that to actually get the sale, one has to assume they will get it. 

I also think they have several great minds, Sleuthers Supreme from Washington State's biography of successful investigators who have pooled their thoughts around what happened to Lindsey.  And they have now made great headway.  I'd just bet on it ::MonkeyCool::

I have been so close to this case it is like I have known Lindsey for a long time now.   ::HelloKitty::

Since I can't edit, that link I referred to above was posted by Klaas in post #147:   http://www.komonews.com/news/local/88224357.html (http://www.komonews.com/news/local/88224357.html)    ::CowboySmiley::

Thinking of you Lindsey and hoping you will be found soon!

 ::MonkeyAngel::

hi scandi...

I think they have some good info on someone and I think they are trying to go through it and look deeper.  I know they are looking deeper.  I'm not sure why a few of the things associated with this were not looked at deeper the first time around...maybe a few pieices of added info caused them to decide to look deeper, however, I think a couple of the things they are reviewing now, should have been looked at deeper in the beginning.  they had some info in the beginning they could have taken a closer look at but obviously did not or they would not be having to do it now.  But I do know they are doing it NOW... so... they are either going to end up eliminating this person or prove they had a connection to Lindsey(moreso than should be). 

Obviously I can't say exactly what they are looking at, but I know they are looking at something very important.  It could very well be what sets things in motion for an arrest... or like I said, it will eliminate someone or at least let us know one way or the other if she was at a specific place with specific person/persons. 

I am not sure how long it takes for them to get the results of what they are looking at, but hopefully, it won't take too long. 

for once I can say I am happy with what they are doing.  this info needed to be acted upon for a long time.. it's good to see if finally is.  If they could just place her at a specific place at a specific time it would certainly help.. especially if they can place someone else there as well.  not that this means someone is responsible, but it would certainly help to figure this out. 

there are several things they are looking at that I know of, and this one will just be another to confirm or not if lindsey went a certain route or had contact with certain persons that evening.

I so appreciate your updates DD, thank-you  ::MonkeyCool::

I have positive feelings that she is going to be found soon. I'm constantly looking at updates on yahoo for her. I have also read that LE and FBI believe that the involvement may be some local mixed with out of town. I don't know any names, and we probably won't unless an arrest is made. Any news of progress is good news to me. Also, RIP to Amber Dubois, I read about that a couple days ago and my heart just sank.

my bold above in red... hmm, I guess I missed where this was stated... but it makes sense to me as that might very well go along with the info I have...not that I know it does or not, but it could and make sense as to why they are looking at something they are looking at.  If what they are looking at comes back to confirm what MIGHT have been, then yes, she could very easily have left mccleary alive.

I read it on a news website. But I was thinking about it after I posted it up, and the article was posted up about a day or 2 after they released that they were still re-interviewing people around the town. I'm guessing what probably happened was that the person who posted the news article for the site, probably misread what was actually said. While what being said was 'They found over a dozen persons of interest inside and outside of McCleary with 2 people of high interest'. I searched for the article again before I came to the forums, but didn't find it, but I will continue to look for it.

Jademoff is this the news story you're looking for? 
(Video Avail)
http://www.komonews.com/news/local/88224357.html
Sources: Persons of interest ID'd in girl's disappearance
March 17, 2010

(http://media.komonews.com/images/100317_Baum_search.jpg)
FBI agents and local investigators have been going door-to-door, interviewing nearly everyone in town regarding Lindsey's disappearance.
(http://media.komonews.com/images/100127_Lindsey_Baum.jpg)
Lindsey Baum

McCLEARY, Wash. -- A renewed investigative effort in the search for a 10-year-old girl who vanished last year has identified a dozen persons of interest, law enforcement sources told ABC News.

Nightline reporters were given behind-the-scenes access to the FBI's Child Abduction Rapid Deployment (CARD) team, which has been leading the search for Lindsey Baum.

Lindsey disappeared while walking home from a friend's house last June.

Investigators from multiple agencies have spent months searching for the girl, and the FBI recently moved in a high-tech command center to coordinate efforts.

Agents with the CARD team have been checking hours of ATM security camera video taken from cash machines throughout McCleary and the surrounding area, looking for anything that seems out of place.

They have also been checking cell phone records to see who was in the area when Lindsey vanished.
"We can start putting a timeline together," FBI Assistant Director Kevin Perkins told Nightline. "And we may see that call and a certain cell phone and, perhaps, our missing individual coming together at a certain place at a certain time."

The agency also has profilers and psychologists analyzing evidence.

Detectives from the sheriff's department are working with the FBI to check new sites that might be connected to the case, and they're also re-searching sites checked previously.

The investigators are also interviewing most of the people in the town, hoping for new leads and watching for unease.

"We're looking for the whole picture, but there are sometimes when you get a gut reaction or gut feeling about a certain individual or their reaction to your questioning," sheriff's Det. Keith Peterson said.

Investigators have talked with more than two-thirds of the town's population.

Drawing on the interviews, searches, security camera video and cell phone data, the FBI has built a model and timeline of the day Lindsey was last seen.


Lindsey's mother, Melissa Baum, thinks someone is holding out.

"I guess what gets me is I know aliens didn't just beam her up and take her away," she said. "Somebody knows something."

Sources tell ABC news that 12 people identified as persons of interest in the case live inside and outside of McCleary, and at least two of those people are considered "high interest" by investigators.

While an arrest may not be imminent, police say the case is active and they are hopeful.

And Lindsey's mom is still spending every day working to find her daughter.

"I don't care who you are," she said. "I just want my Lindsey back safely."

Happy Easter Monkeys

Thank-you and Happy Easter  ::MonkeyAngel::

Praying that we get to see that cute smile again and soon.

 ::MonkeyAngel::

does anyone know if there is any truth to rumors over on ws?

also, someone had posted something from facebook, which i can't access b/c i don't have a facebook account, that loren richards was seen forcing a 12 year old girl into a car that night lb went missing and is now in jail b/c of it?  I am gonna assume for now that this is just a rumor because the news media hasn't picked it up and loren richards isn't on the ghc inmate search for the ghc jail

I have not seen the rumors on WS. I do have facebook. I'm sorry could you please tell me who Loren Richards is, I don't know.

I'm also so confused over there with initials, I went and looked, and I haven't a clue. ::MonkeyNoNo::

Loren Richards is either the uncle or father of the friend that Lindsey was swimming with the day she went missing.  It's apparently a rumor.

Thank-you

He is the father.

This is my first time posting on scared monkeys so please bear with me.  I have lived in
McCleary for the last 5 years and I do remember that june day very well.  I have always thought, and I know I wil get flak for this, that MB has something to do with LBs disappearance.  I have seen her many times in town before she moved and something about her lack of real emotion bothers me. Now I know that everybody reacts to a trama differently so I do take that into account.  I have seen the older brother numerous times in town alone after 9:00 pm.  So you tell me if you lost one child would you be ok with the other one out doing the same thing that your missing child was doing when she went missing?  Also it bothers me what some of the money from those jars with LBs picture on it is being used for.  I happened to be behind MB in the store one day and she had a six pack and ciggarettes on the counter.  She then reached into the donation jar to get the money to buy these things.  I thought that money was to help in the search expences.  But anyways these are my opinions only.  Thank you.

welcome to the board! i think a lot of us on here have had the same thoughts you are having run through our minds at one point or another. the incident you just recounted about lb's mother just sent shivers up my spine..

Mine too  ::MonkeyEek:: and I agree with what sunshine just said. Welcome  ::MonkeyCool::

I don't think MB did anything to her daughter. Whether or not she wins mother of the year is another story. jmo

Waiting, welcome to the board.  For sure MB is not on my list of favorite people and I vacillate between whether she had anything to do with it or not.  However, I totally agree with you regarding her conduct or lack of conduct concerning her son and I have questioned from the beginning about how the "search" money collected has been used.

this is a rumor, it is the rumor I was hearing about earlier... it was about loren richards being arrested..since it is now out on the board with his name, then I'll go ahead and talk about him.  I just did not want to see another Golder mess with a lynch mob coming after someone before anything is even really known...

loren is the father of christina richards... you will remember her from the news article, they gave her name and said she had seen lindsey before lindsey disappeared.. she also said she lindsey was her best friend.  she also had said the fbi had been to her house twice.  this was all early on in the case. 

the person posting saying they heard loren had been arrested is not the same person who told me he had been arrested, however I am pretty sure they people all know one another.  one of their relatives is kara's next door neighbor... so I don't know where all of this is coming from...

it seems they might have the same "source" but... this one who ws is posting about her post says she is a friend of lorens brother and knows loren, so if this is true, wouldn't she really know he was not arrested?  you would think so... also they have a direct pipeline to the rumor mill, where a lot of info about this case comes from... then there is also someone, who I won't give any info about who would really know this is not true, yet people are saying this is who they are hearing the rumor from that he was arrested... but he wasn't... so I don't know why these people keep saying these things. 

now since CARD came they have went back to lorens... but they have went to a lot of people's houses again, so this really does not mean he is guilty of anything.  and being his daughter talks of lindsey as being her best friend, it stands to reason lindsey might have even been to their house, so this would not be out of the realm of normal either. 

now I do know more about some of this and i do know that the Card team has been there and I do know they are looking at some things.  And I do know that these things take a bit of time, so... if we just hold on a bit, I am sure this is going to come out one way of the other... either they will find something or they won't.  as of yet they have not found anything.  they are looking, but nothing positive has turned up yet.  I just don't want a lynch mob going to that house until (well never a lynch mob) something for sure turns up... It should not be much longer until they either have something or they end up eliminating him because everything is legit. I don't know either way how this is going to turn out... he might be involved, he might not be. 

as for his forcing a girl into his car... I am not sure what anyone thinks they thought they saw... and I believe LE is not sure either... and so this is most likely one of the reasons they are looking... to figure out if this is true and if lindsey was around him that evening, and if so, was it a legit reason, like being with her friend, his daughter, or was it something else.  we don't know... it might all be nothing. 

I do know this.  IF.. he forced a girl into his vehicle, and IF it was lindsey, they will figure it out... this I know... for all we know someone might have seen him with his own daughter... however, they have the means to figure it out... so I think they will figure it out soon enough and then we will know. 

I do know that loren left town after lindsey went missing... early on I thought it was the uncle who left town, but since then have found out it was loren... but that  really means nothing either... people leave for awhile for different reasons, so might be innocent enough. 

I know if it turns out that lindsey was really in his vehicle, they are most likely going to know it... I am basically 100% sure they will know it if she were in it... so I am sure that is what they are doing now, trying to figure that out... and I believe they have the means to do just that.  and I know that is what they are doing.  so I have just been waiting to see how this all turns out before I go jumping to any conclusions about loren... it could all be nothing.  but the arrest part is definitely a rumor. 

my guess is someone saw LE over there and maybe talking to him, or maybe he even went with them to talk to him and a rumor started he was arrested... I don't know that this happened, but would make sense.  however, the "source" people are saying where they heard this from, baffles me, because if it is true, who their source is, then that person knows dang well he was never arrested... so why say he was... that is just crazy... I'm not talking about the posters posting about it, I'm talking about the orginial source of the info, which has not been mentioned... I know where this is coming from and it baffles me that someone would start this rumor who knows it is not true. 

I'd say a week or two and if there is anything to this, we will know it.. maybe sooner. this has been going on for awhile now.  you would think by now they would be getting to the point of KNOWING something.  one way or the other... but again, who knows what time schedule they are on... ugh. 

btw, there are other people they are looking at, not only loren, so this tells me they don't KNOW anything or they would not have to be looking at other people.  And I know they do not KNOW lindsey was in his vehicle... I think they are just following up on something to try to make sure ... and they are doing a serious follow-up... which is good, find out one way or the other, which they should have done early on... they had this info early on.. they just didn't act on it.

oh and this is not connected to the swimming in the pool at libby and tags.. this is something totaly different.  this is the father of the girl who was quoted in the newspaper... who said she was hanging out with lindsey before she disappeared.. this is not tag and libby's daughter or nieces.  there house is not down the maple route... this is the route that was stated early on that lindsey might have taken a different route home.  if she went with this friend over toward her house she would have most likely taken the south 6th route past mullins creek.  she would not have endedup past libbys

however, if she then came back by the gas station she might have ended up coming up past libby's again... but no one knows if the person whoever soeone thought they saw is lindsey.  they have yet to figure that out... but they can figure it out... but has nothing to do with tag and libby or the girls there.

hi waiting... I've been told by a few people from mccleary they have seen josh out at all hours of the night and early morning after midnight.  I also have been told about the money jars... just so you know, and others know, I believe you and I've heard the same things, and it totally sucks to have people give money for the searches and have it used for things that have nothing to do with searches or even helping lindsey at all.  I think if I were MB I would think about using that money for things other than what they were collected for... someone might just get her on film / tape/ surveilance doing just that... my guess someone might have already done so... I would call that fraud...

Thank you all for the welcoming.   I also wanted to say that I don't necessarily think that MB was the one to commit the crime but I do believe that she knows more than she is admitting to.  I also question the validity of the lie detector test.  From what I understand the test detects changes in your heart rate, perspiration and such.  The accuracy levels of such tests are about 80% at best. From what I have seen of MB she is stone cold and would have no problem passing a polygraph.  I want nothing more than to see them find the person or persons responsible for LBs disappearance.  Again thank you all for the warm welcome.

dd-thank you for all of the information you truly have been an asset to this case.  i'm really happy to see that this thread is starting to become more active again..

i think its possible that maybe LB went to stop by her friend's house (loren's daughter) after she left KK's because she wasn't ready to go home yet.  the fact that loren left town the day after she disappeared is very strange to me.  doesn't an uncle live in a trailer in the backyard too?  do we know anything about him? i think his name is buddy

Welcome Waitinginmccleary !!

I just want to say Bravo for speaking up about MB and those who want to give you flack... let them and be a duck in the water honey let it roll off of you like water on oil . We all know that MB has something going on or that she is hiding due to her behavior and one day and I hope it is soon, we will know the truth.  So don't be afraid to speak up because the locals know the story better than anyone about the family.

KUDOS  ::MonkeyGavel::

I got your back !  ::MonkeyDevil::

Me too Rose!   Thanks DD for that.  I so appreciate your updates. 

I hope this thread doesn't turn into trashing fest again. I think the rumors has hurt this investigation more then anything. 

Your right, this should not turn into a trashing fest, but also remember that part of investigating a crime is talking about and bringing forth evidence.  Everyone is entitled to their opinion about this but I don't condone it going beyond words.  And as with any crime certain activities sometimes make you look guilty and there are those of us who pay attention to that.

I think it is important to bring evidence. Sorry it is not that I don't be YOU, it is I don't believe anything that comes out of that town right now. Too many rumors for me.

You and everyone, including myself, are entitled to our opinions, that is more then true. However, we also have a responsibility to be careful in what we say so not to hurt investigative measures. If she is using funds for personal use, then get evidence of that. Telling the story is not evidence or proof of something.

Well as soon as I can get the security camera video from Sam's market where she took the money from the jar for beer and cigarettes I will let you know. :)  Question for you?  Do you live here in McCleary or know someone who does?  I can tell you that Lindsey's disappearance is a very emotional thing for everyone in this town and yes there have been some rumors go around but they don't all come out of McCleary.  I know that for a fact.  Also as far as I know, witness testimony is used every day in prosecuting crimes.

I don't doubt you that Lindsey's mom took money out of the jar for beer and cigarettes. I'm sure there are many, many rumors. I've been following Lindsey's case right from the start, and I know one thing, when I started reading a very sick feeling came over me. I've followed many, many missing people cases, and never got that feeling before. I'm not good at researching anything, but Lindsey's thread I always come and check for any info. I'm appreciative of any info, and my prayers are that soon Lindsey will be found. I can't say what I think about Lindsey's mom, my thoughts change all the time, I don't think she had anything to do with Lindsey's disappearance.

waiting-i believe what you are saying is true.  i cant imagine what must have been going through your head when you saw MB reach into that jar and use the money for cigarettes. it is sickening. you did nothing wrong by repeating what you saw..there have been a lot of conflicts so far with this case and some unethical things that have gone on with the search center which i think has sickened a lot of us on this board.  your account of what happened with mb taking the money from lb's jar is not suprising in the least based on other things that have been reported..

Obviously you know I do not live in mc cleary. I don't have to live there to know that the rumor mill is alive and well there. I read about it all of the time. This one is arrested, that one said this, she did this or that then it is unproven.

In the beginning of this case the problem has been these rumors and some times flat out nastiness and lies. Unless I am reading something based on evidence, I am not going down that road.

This is where I am coming from. If someone was planning on sending money for the search for Lindsey and they came across a posting that talks about her mother using the money for cigs and beer, that person? They would send money and that hurts Lindsey. I just don't see the point of posting that. If you or others disagree with me, that is not the first time that has happened and I am sure wont be the last in this thread.


 

You are not the first to tell of MB's misuse of the money from the LB Jar's.
We have heard from others about her using the money for things such as coffee's from the espresso stand and the like.


Keep up the good work !  ::MonkeyDance::

So it is a good thing to post things which may stop the money coming in for the searches? I just don't see that as a good thing.

IF MB is dipping into the money, there are things that can be done to change that. Get it on film and send it to the authorities.  I am sure no one wants the money to stop, right? Well posting there is misuse of funds will only stop the money. I suppose it is all in how you look at it.

You know what is important? The little girl that is missing and finding the person that took her. None of this leads us to Lindsey.

Is there a law that states she cannot use the money for anything other than the search or is it at MBs discresion?  Its a serious questions as I truly do not know.  Yes it is sickening but is it against the law?  You are suggesting to go to the authorities but will it do anything? And as far as something like this making people not donate maybe it will make them think that  they should send their money directly to the search parties and not into the jar that is so easily accessible to MB to dip into.   :idea:

Hi there. I actually live in Shelton. I worked at Gordon's up until 2 years ago. I was hearing all sorts of rumors right after she first came up missing, even the day after she came up missing one of the locals brought in fliers to my work and showed me. I didn't recognize her until I saw her picture online of the one she is wearing the green hat. I was hoping that it would be like the other missing persons fliers we had seen around McCleary in the previous years where the kids just took off with a friend and were brought home safe by police a week later. My first gut reaction after she wasn't found within the first few days is that someone who was traveling through McCleary picked her up, because that time of year a lot of people from out of town, state, and even out of country have come through town just traveling the coast, going to the beach, or just going camping.

 
None of this leads us to Lindsey. If you feel MB is doing something unethical with the money then contact the proper authorities.   

Agreed. I'd say contact whomever started the jars. And if it is illegal, they can contact law enforcement.

This one isn't it, but I did read this the same day as I read the other one. Thank you Muffy!

It wouldn't surprise me at all if it was a stranger abduction and she was taken right off the street. I think in this case there are a lot of lessons on what to do and what not to do. Such as don't allow a child to go out alone, don't allow a child to leave alone. I go back and forth about what could have happened to Lindsey and who took her, whether or not she knew the person or not. One thing I feel is if she wasn't alone this wouldn't have happened.  I don't feel she is alive and I pray I am wrong. I think one day she will be found in the woods.

I'm constantly thrown back and fourth with if it was someone she knew or a stranger. My reaction after I did a bit of research (growing up in a small town, I don't know street names, but I know a place by location) and found that Maple street was the road right behind the main road made me start to think that it might have been someone more local because after 9pm it seems odd that someone would drive on one of the back streets that isn't from the area, since the grocery store was closed and the only options would be gas stations. My mind is a huge jumbled mess, I hope that they will find some answers soon.

Don't get your panties in a bunch  ::MonkeyKiss::

We are just discussing the misuse of funds from the JARS in our opinions.
Is it illegal ? I do not believe it is illegal. Is it unethical ? I feel it is very much.


Your doing great holding your own in here waitinginmccleary !! ::MonkeyJnBox::

BTW, MB has access to the search center funds as well since she is now in charge of the search center too.   ::MonkeyNoNo::

Hi Banana,  She has moved to a town a bit away from McCleary so does she still come to the SC?

That is what I was also curious about too, Rainer is actually quite a bit away from McCleary (somewhere between 1 and 2 hours). She's Lindsey's mom though, and can't imagine she would miss a search, especially if they found something.

You need to be respectful to me. That comment is unacceptable in my opinion. I responded to the poster with a common sense idea. If she feels something was done that is illegal then report it, it is really that simple. Posting this sort of thing does not lead us to Lindsey. You are coming on here and causing problems and nothing more. I will no longer engage with you or the other poster because I will not disrespect Lindsey in that way.


 

Didn't she move in with a relative? I don't blame her for moving out of the town. I don't think she gets much, if any support there.

I honestly have no clue since it appears they are no longer having searches according to their own website. Link below:

tentative schedule from http://www.findlindseybaum.com/1915.html

http://www.mycalendarmaker.com/previewfiles/7c3a5fe857ecf2d0e9311ecdad0d7d01.pdf

I was not intending to be disrespectful, It means, don't get so upset.  nothing more.

"The basic idea is that you use this idiom to express the idea that someone should relax, or not get so worked up about something.

For example, you're using the bathroom, and your brother is pounding at the door. You could say "I'm almost done!!! Don't get your panties in knot/bunch/twist!!!"

This is a forum, not your home bathroom. There are posters here; not your family members. Words are read, not heard. Please don't assume that your intentions are as accurately interpreted by a forum member as they are by your family at home. That's exactly why I want you to refrain from directing similar remarks at other posters. I know the expression, Banana, and also know that many posters would be offended if you repeated it to them. Please take this opportunity to avoid that.  

That is a quote from the internet for the example.  so evidently that OLD saying is now offensive.  So "I APOLOGIZE TO TRACY GIRL" for offending her. It really was not my intention.

Is the following statement acceptable ?
 " don't get so upset"

I apologize to waitinginmccleary as well since the poster is a first timer here.  I was very excited to see someone on here not afraid to speak the truth. I appreciate the people that tell it like they see it and wish more people like waitinginmccleary was on this forum concerning Lindsey. I am no different than anyone else here that wants to know the truth about what happened to Lindsey and who is responsible.  Odd behaviors are an insight to the people surrounding her before and after she disappeared. 

So, Again I say " Thank You" to waitinginmccleary

We also don't know if she ever replaced the money.  She could have and that was not witnessed by the same person.  I want to find Lindsey.  If her mother needs money occasionally for cigarettes, I think this is the most stressful situation one can ever be in, having a missing child.  I say, let her have the cigarettes.  It appears, if she did it, she did it out in the open, it's not like she bought a fishing boat.

I would hate to see people stop donating to the fund for this reason.  We only know part of the story.  Tracy is right, there are other ways to stop this through an investigation.

I would like to add my own personal opinion.  Lindsey's mom may not be perfect but as far as I've read she is not a suspect in the disappearance of Lindsey.  Discussing what became of "jar donations" is not going to bring Lindsey home.

Thanks Barelyhere,  I so agree with you.  It looks like after 9 months going on 10 there have been changes {taking everything we know now} into consideration.  I think possibly for the better, and that leads to a more positive environment for the investigation and finding of Lindsey.  IMO

Thank you  ::MonkeyCool::

One thing I did last night, as I'm sure others have done, I've gone back through some of the threads here on the forum. It doesn't hurt to see if something was pointed out that maybe wasn't picked up on during the whole rush of events from when Lindsey first came up missing, as I know for sure my mind was a bit scattered then.

that is a great idea! i hope the CARD team that is working the case now is working on new leads that can hopefully help find lindsey

Yes she moved in with a relative, and from my reading and understanding, it was because she wasn't working since Lindsey came up missing. I haven't been into McCleary that much since Lindsey came up missing, but I've heard rumors about Melissa, now a days it's just goes in one of my ears then out the other. I don't even want to feel the devastation that her or any other parent go through when their child goes missing.

The main reason I had brought it up in the thread today was because I read Kara's first post on the forums last night. That was absolutely heartwrenching. And I wasn't able to pick up on emotion before, while I know other posters were. And I was thinking since we are all here and investigating together, that others might be able to also pick up on other things that they weren't able to before. Since by this point we know what is fact and what is rumor.

Hi Jade,
I have done that before, gone through the old posts to see what has changed from then to now. When reading Kara's posts did you notice that her story changed? I suppose she could have been covering some mistakes she made such as not walking Lindsey home. That has just always stuck with me. At one time I really did think she had to have something to do with this whether directly or indirectly. Then I recalled seeing a pic of Kara standing on a corner with her son and daughter, they were holding up a sign that asked if anyone had seen Lindsey. The look on their faces tells me another story. I don't think she has anything to do with this either.

I hope she is now getting the help and support she needs.

I haven't had time to read through them completely, but I will get around to it during my weekend from work. Before I even read through all of Kara's posts, my assumption is that since Kara's house was the last house that Lindsey is known to be at, that Kara was getting a lot of fingers pointed at her from people and was trying to prove her innocence, and her thoughts weren't functioning properly after this sort of traumatic event.

BTW Tracygirl (offtopic), your avatar picture is fantastic, I am gifted with a cousin who is Autistic and he is wonderful.

So I've gone through about a quarter of the pages of Thread #1 here on the forums. There were a couple things that jumped out and grabbed me.

First off the comment by Rob... Thread #1, page 13 post #3 (feels like I'm posting up bible verses, not my intention). Regarding a traveling salesperson being the person who took Lindsey. I'm going to assume that this was read from a site posted by a psychic. However June is about the right time of year for this area to start seeing business people start to come into town selling things, whether it be windows, cleaners, or even random stuff from the trunk.

Another thing that grabbed me is Yoville. I have both a facebook account and a Myspace account and I used to do Yoville. Not only can you acquire a virus from Yoville (thank you Zynga) but it can also be used as an avatar chatroom. For those of you who don't know how Yoville works, you create a character and personalize it to look however you want it to. You also start out with your own virtual apartment which you can decorate as you please as well. In order to get money to decorate your apartment, you work at a factory and also visit neighbors apartments. The only way you can get neighbors in yoville is if the person is on your myspace/facebook friends list (whichever site you are accessing yoville through). The catch though is that your friends list through Yoville, you can add different people that you meet when you are roaming your avatar on the streets of yoville or going through the different areas where you can purchase things for your avatar. When this person is on your friends list (Yoville verifies that you want this person as a friend), when you are online they can jump servers and join the same room you are in to chat with you. I don't know how the servers work... meaning I don't know if the connection you make to play yoville, if you are connected to a region server or a random picked worldwide server.

Alright, a friend cleared me up on how exactly the applications like Yoville work. My biggest concern that Lindsey may have gotten contact with someone from Yoville, and since the game is a flash application it doesn't download what you do into the computer itself. However the chat log in the app is stored in a database by the company who created the app. While it won't show up on Myspace, it'll show up through Zynga (the creators of the app) so I'm sure FBI has looked into it.

OT
aww that is wonderful you feel as you do about your cousin. My son has inspired me to be a better person. When I think I am having a bad day, I look at everything he struggles with and he still has this wonderful smile. He makes me grounded.

I will say though one of the reasons I feel for the parents of kidnapped children is in many ways I feel my son was kidnapped. The baby I had, the one that talked, looked at me, reached out for me disappeared in about a weeks time. I love my son more then anything in the world but I will admit I feel the baby I had for a full year was taken from me. I still morn for him and miss him. He was a happy, healthy, typical baby that was beginning to speak, loved his mama, I could see it in his eyes when he looked at me. He was a wonderful baby.  It is like I have had two of him, one was a typical child, one is autistic. The autistic child is wonderful too though. He always smiles. He is still happy but I don't always know what about. Sometimes we will be sitting there and he will all of a sudden burst out laughing, lol. It is very cute and the entire family will join him, we just love him. He is a teen now and I can tell you, he is the only teen aged boy still hugging and kissing his mama hello and goodbye and I wouldn't trade that for anything. As I said, I feel like I have had 2 of him.

Sorry this was just a rambling post. Today I spent the day saying many, many prayers for Nadia and it has made me be reflective tonight.   

Tracygirl ... thank you for sharing.

 ::MonkeyAngel::

In your opinion ... was there an obvious catalyst that brought on the sudden transformation?

Janet

Until ruled out ... in the process of elimination ... I believe that investigators should consider ... as persons of interest ... ALL who are known to have had or were going to have a connection with Lindsey Baum following the 8:20 PM recorded image on the evening she disappeared ... the recorded image captured at the video store..

In my speculations ... I eliminated out Kara as a suspect at the getgo.  Witnesses placed Lindsey very close to her home at 7th and Maple at a time that would affirm Kara's account of when the little girl left her residence.

++++++++

TIMELINES AND THEORIES
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=5703.0


 

I will answer this but I do not wish to debate this subject at all on this forum. Yes, the next day after my son had his one year vaccinations which consisted of an MMR and a chickenpox vaccine, my son got a high fever (103) that lasted a few days. Within a weeks time my son changed.

Tracygirl  ::MonkeyAngel::

Thank you Tracygirl and ... thank you again for sharing.

If you wish to read ... to contribute ...Bearlyhere and I had a short discussion in regards to the autism spectrum.

Janet

++++++++

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=5703.160
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=5703.180

Janet,
I think Bearly said everything so perfectly I have nothing to contribute. In regards to the vaccines, I believe it may have contributed to his autism along with other environmental assults and possibly a genetic trigger. I can't say that for all children on the autism spectrum. I advise parents to research both sides of the debate with an open mind and make their own decisions.

It is so difficult.

 ::MonkeyNoNo::

After extensive research ... my son and DIL procrastinated in having our grandson vacinated.  They made the decision not to accept the method of vacination provided by the Canadian health care system (bundles).  As K. would not been permited entry into the public or private school systems unless vacinated ... last year between the ages of two and three ... several  trips across the line to a private clinic in the Seattle area was where it was at.

Tracygirl ... God Bless.  I hope you are having a good day.

Janet

Absolutely. From my understanding EVERYONE they talked with before, FBI talked with again. I am not seeing any updates through search engines I am looking at, and looking for updates on missing people within this area is what I do first thing when I get on the computer (Mainly seeing if there is anything new for Lindsey, Nancy Moyer, and Shantina Smiley). With people of interest and 2 of them being of high interest, I'm getting anxious to know if they have found anything! I think I'm going to do a bit more browsing to see if I can find anything suspicious.

Other than Dale Golder (Foreman Rd. Search) ... I do not believe there has ever been any official persons of interest in the the Lindsey Baum case.  However ... that has not prevented speculation.

As a reminder ... maybe some of the following topic threads need to be revisited.

Justice for Lindsey!!

Janet

+++++++

TIMELINES AND THEORIES
Tamikosmom
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=5703.0

The Weirdos Connected To The Churches & Strange Goings-On
Doubledecker
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=5683.0

Maple Street~Who Lives/Works On Maple ST.
KarmaRoundUp 
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=6261.0

FOREMAN ROAD SEARCH
Tamikosmom
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=6221.0

6th Street Info, Who LIves Their, Connections Etc
doubledecker
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=5593.0

Beck Street
Jademoff  
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=6118.0

Adam Lee Campbell Message & Connections ?
doubledecker
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=5816.0

Wayne Watne - Missionary At Lindsey's Church; Took Josh Fishing Etc
doubledecker
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=5614.0

Jim Mullin Creek Searched 6 Times & Info
doubledecker  
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=5606.0

They have currently 11 persons of interest with two of those people being of high interest. I am just crossing my fingers, my toes, my arms, and especially my heart that they are close to finding her.

I'm actually going to look into the Adam Lee Campbell messages again.... as well as Strongtower.

 ::MonkeyAngel::

Okay, scratch Strongtower, I forgot exactly what that guy was writing, and now that my mind is refreshed and a bit on the ::MonkeyEek:: ::MonkeyEek:: ::MonkeyNoNo:: ::MonkeyShocked:: side, I'll move on to Adam Campbell.

Thanks Tamikosmom for your devotion to every case you study, and I do appreciate your posting these links like you did.  Really nice, and a great time saver, getting right to the point.  xox

Hi Jademoff,  It is always great to read your input as I know you live right outside of town.  Those 2 people of 'heightened interest' have to mean something, right?  It is such a turn around to hear this from the mouths of LE, God Bless them in their work.  It seems like a whole new strategy IMO, letting the public know this investigation is still alive and going strong.   ::rhino::

I apologize and also thank you, heightened interest is the term I was looking for. The 2 heightened interest people may or may not mean something. There was just something about them that set off a red flag to the FBI. The two people may have been connected that night, but also may be two people who had no connection to each other. I'm hoping we'll hear within the next couple of days since two different papers will be released each day. And if we don't hear anything for a while, I sure as heck hope that they are onto something strong!

does anyone remember anything about a ford taurus, a tan one... or a blue van... or any car that looked like a ford taurus that might have been seen by kara's daughter? 

it was posted about somewhere but now we can't find it.

might not be daughter who said it, but was said to kk

I don't know if this is rumor mill or not, but I heard from someone who lives in McCleary that the car (white) was identified by the girls as a Nissan.

I'll help you look for the post you are talking about. I remember reading stuff about cars when I first joined, and I want to say that's either thread 2 or 3.

DD I found this information about a house in Wishkah posting up something about a dark blue van.

http://www.topix.net/forum/city/aberdeen-wa/T9LE8ONGRNI92FR4Q

My apologies, Wishkah is just outside of Aberdeen.

Helllooo Monkeys! I have finally been approved as a member here after waiting several months. Thank you to the Monkey-Powers-That-Be for letting me become a member!
 ::MonkeyCheer4::

To the person asking about a blue van: There use to be a dark blue van parked beside J&F Auto repair on 5th in McCleary. Don't know if it's the same van you're talking about, or if it still parks there, but wanted to let you know just in case. I think it had a covered spare tire on the back if that helps to match it to the one you're asking about.

There's so much I've wanted to say all these months and now that I'm here I don't know where to begin.  :smt102

Let's bring this case back to life and get it solved!!!  ::MonkeyGavel::

I've always thought about the possibility that Lindsey could have been hit by a car. Do any of you remember the Erica Baker case? This article has a pretty good summary
http://www.whiotv.com/news/15244175/detail.html (http://www.whiotv.com/news/15244175/detail.html)

Lindsey's disappearance has always reminded me of Erica's. While it seems like someone would have seen or heard something if Lindsey were hit by a car there's still the chance that it could have happened. It took years before someone came forward about Erica.

Basket Case welcome and looking forward to your info  ::MonkeyCool::

Hi there, welcome to Scared Monkeys.

I looked up Erica, have they found her yet? I couldn't find anything about them finding her remains.

I had thought at one time that Lindsey may have been hit by a car. I don't know about killed on the spot though, just because I think LE and FBI would have found traces of body fluids. As another question, maybe she was hit by a car, not killed, and the person who hit her offered her a ride home or even to the hospital, and Lindsey being in a state of shock may have accepted the ride and been taken else where (not that the person wanted to, but more so because they didn't want to get sued). I know that my brother as 13/14 year old he ran into a tree on his bike and busted his arm, and he was in a state of panic that he would accept help from anyone who offered it.

No they have not found Erica's remains. There were no traces of body fluids found or anything that made anyone suspect that Erica had been hit by a vehicle in her case either. This is why I keep an open mind that something similar could have happened to Lindsey. Just one of many possibilities.

The following is part of a report from a 2006 child abduction & murder study. If we consider what might be the worst case scenario, that Lindsey was abducted and killed, this report may give us some insight.

CASE MANAGEMENT
for Missing Children
Homicide Investigation

May 2006
Rob McKenna
Attorney General of Washington
&
U.S. Department of Justice
Office of Juvenile Justice and
Delinquency Prevention

The murder of an abducted child, particularly by a stranger, is a rare event. There are estimated to be about 100 such incidents in the United States each year. The victims are typically “average” children, leading normal lives, and growing up in normal families. The vast majority of them are girls, with the average age between 11 and 12 years old. In most cases, the initial contact between the victim and killer is within one-fourth mile of the victim’s residence.

The average age of killers of abducted children is around 27 years old. They are predominantly unmarried, and half of them either live alone or with their parents. Half of them are unemployed, and those that are employed work in unskilled or semi-skilled labor occupations. The killers can generally be characterized as “social marginals.”
Almost two-thirds of the killers have prior arrests for violent crimes, with slightly more than half of those prior crimes committed against children. The most frequent prior crimes against children are rape and other types of sexual assault. Most of the murderers’ prior crimes are similar in MO to the child abduction murder.
Commonly, the killers are at the initial victim-killer contact site for a legitimate reason. They either live in the area or were engaging in some normal activity. Most of the victims of child abduction murder are victims of opportunity. Seldom does the killer choose his victim because of some physical characteristic of the victim. The primary motivation for the child abduction killer is sexual assault.
A unique pattern of distance relationships exists in child abduction murders. Often, the initial contact site is located very close to the victim’s last known location. Conversely, the distance between the Initial Contact Site and the Murder Site increases to distances greater than one-fourth mile. The distance from the Murder Site to the Body Recovery Site again decreases to less than 199 feet in the vast majority of cases.
There are investigative implications of these spatial relationships. If the Initial Contact Site is not identified by the police, the clearance rate drops drastically, and vice versa. The close proximity between the Initial Contact Site and the Victim’s Last Seen Site suggests thorough neighborhood canvass and area searches be completed to locate the initial contact site. The Murder Site is second only to the body of the victim as a source of physical evidence that can be connected with the killer. Its close proximity to the Body Recovery Site suggests that a thorough search be completed to locate it.
It was discovered that once the murder investigation has begun, the name of the killer is likely to be in the investigative file within the first week. This provides an opportunity for investigators who may have run out of viable leads to regroup and review everyone whose name has been uncovered during the investigation. Similarly, it is not uncommon for the police to have actual contact with the killer before he becomes a primary suspect, for example, during the initial neighborhood canvass. Also, while at times the media seem to “get in the way,” in the end they are much more likely to have a positive effect on the investigation than a negative one. In short, the media are more likely to bring witnesses forward than to aid the killer in his escape.

I've highlighted some of the parts in color that I think are key. You can view the entire report and more about the study at the following links

http://www.atg.wa.gov/page.aspx?id=2354 (http://www.atg.wa.gov/page.aspx?id=2354)

http://www.atg.wa.gov/uploadedFiles/Another/Supporting_Law_Enforcement/Homicide_Investigation_Tracking_System_(HITS)/Child_Abduction_Murder_Research/CMIIReport-Summary.pdf
 (http://www.atg.wa.gov/uploadedFiles/Another/Supporting_Law_Enforcement/Homicide_Investigation_Tracking_System_(HITS)/Child_Abduction_Murder_Research/CMIIReport-Summary.pdf)

thanks for that link Jade... I've made a note of it in case anything might match up.

thanks basket case... I'll see if I can find out anything about this blue van...

I have wondered if this could have happened... I have information that at least a couple of people had someone tell them this is what happened. however, I have no idea how this all started...so perhaps different people are getting the same info from the ORIGINAL same source. 

I am not wondering if perhaps the ford taurus might have hit her?  I have mostly heard from people it was a "truck" who hit her, but have been told it was a "car"... now we have a ford taurus parked weird at that location with the door open and the driver not seen.  so I am trying to figure out who owns this car, and why was it parked that way right by where lindsey is said to have last been seen by witness #2...the blue van was also right there in that area at the same time. 

So just trying to go through this and see if there is anything that might be connected to the disappearance of Lindsey.

Was the information about the car being parked there in an article, I haven't seen this anywhere?

I've always thought it likely that the person/person's responsible for what happened to Lindsey, or someone with knowledge of what happened, read here. If you are reading here, I plea that you come forward, even if you must do it by anonymous means. If you think this isn't eating away at you, you're wrong because it is, and it will continue to get worse. Always looking over your shoulder waiting to get caught is hell in itself. Give Lindsey the peace she deserves, her friends and family deserve and that McCleary needs. The dark cloud of this case haunts everyone and will never go away until it's revealed what happened.

That's an interesting report, and thank you for posting that. I'm looking at the age range, that's around my age (I'm 26), so I went to school with those in that age range. It's something that I've been looking at for the past couple of months as well, regarding her last seen location and I kind of have a theory but I don't have anything really strong to back up what I have looked into. I will work with these statistics and see what I can come up with.

This is something else that can be found in the detailed report (it's huge but worth the download), it's a breakdown of female victim-killer relationship by age group (found in table 16 of the report, page 43)

Killer relationship for female victims ages 10-12:

Stranger:  41.6%
Friend/Acquaintance:  32.7%
Family/Intimate:  11.9%
Unknown:  13.9%

the entire 103-page report can be found below (pdf)
http://www.atg.wa.gov/uploadedFiles/Another/Supporting_Law_Enforcement/Homicide_Investigation_Tracking_System_(HITS)/Child_Abduction_Murder_Research/CMIIPDF.pdf (http://www.atg.wa.gov/uploadedFiles/Another/Supporting_Law_Enforcement/Homicide_Investigation_Tracking_System_(HITS)/Child_Abduction_Murder_Research/CMIIPDF.pdf)

(I tried to cut out some of the quoted above to save space, hop I did it properly)

Jademoff, I would be interested to know your theory. Sharing ideas and theories with others is what gets those wheels turning.  ::MonkeyBike::

I don't think a forum is always the best place to do that though, for reasons I'm sure we can all speculate. Does Scared Monkeys have a chat room?

I don't want to just start posting names of people up, because more than anything that could hurt the case. I think I may have a start of something, I just need to look into specifics to back up my theory, and then after that I'm going to get more in depth.

I concur Jademoff, we don't want to hurt the case.

Here's another thing found in the full report I mentioned a few posts back, it may give an idea on where to look for Lindsey IF she is among the rare cases she was abducted and killed. From pages 54-56 of the report

The child abduction killers chose rural areas for the body disposal location in 52.6% of the cases
Killers conceal the victim's body in 55.4% of the cases

On another topic, an interesting find on page 60 about witnesses: 32.9% of the cases studied had unknowing witnesses; people who saw some aspect of the crime but at the time did not realize that they were witnessing part of a crime/abduction

Just a little off topic, are you also from the Grays Harbor area?

no, it is info that was turned in at the beginning of the case... but not posted about.  we are not working on this info trying to figure out who these vehicles belong to.

Does anyone know what decade Taurus it is?

Sorry if I'm over-posting, I've been reading this case on here since the get-go and now that I can post I'm a bit out of control.  ::MonkeyDance::

Possible scenarios I'm throwing out there for what could have happened to Lindsey:

Ran Away
Accident caused by Lindsey: lost in woods, etc.
Accidental injury/death caused by someone else: hit by vehicle, fight led to injury/death, etc.
Abducted by stranger/killed
Abducted by stranger/alive
Abducted by family/killed
Abducted by family/alive
Drug/alcohol overdose
Killed by someone she knew: family, acquaintance, peers (why? rage, jealousy...?)
Victim of human trafficking

What else could have happened? Please add your ideas.  :smt115

Yes Ma'am!

I live in Shelton and I haven't heard about or read about anything recent involving Lindsey's case. Is there anything new that you've heard within the last week? How is the investigation going?

I've heard as much as you have  ::MonkeyCool::

My brain is on overload. I shall return in a few hours.

So I think I might have found a connection, and this is based off if the reports by Harry Oakes are legit (still something I'm on the fence with, because if Melissa didn't want to have anything to do with him being involved in the investigation, how did he get articles for his dog to pick up Lindsey's scent from, and also did he have permission from local LE to be involved on top of that, because he is retired LE himself, and he knows better than to just jump into things), and still digging further to see if this connection also has a connection around 6th street also.

hi jademoff, amanda, mb's sister is actually the one who contracted with HO..mb wanted nothing to do with him... He went through amanda for everything.

if you are trying to match up something and need some info just let me know, I can most likely help you.  you can email me if you need some info to help with whatever you are going with which connects with the HO report..  keysring@yahoo.com

Jademoff wrote:

Does anyone know what decade Taurus it is?

______________

This car was a early 90s Ford taurus kind of a tan color.  It was most likely an aftermarket paint color as it did not match factory colors... there was something significant about the bumper

It might be helpful to have a profile of Lindsey. This could give us clues about what happened to her. These are posts, quotes and statements from articles to help us get a sense of who Lindsey is. These are in no particular order. I've provided the links to the various articles and posts where these were found.

We should consider that these are the only perceptions and opinions of Lindsey that we have been made privy too, so we can only skim the surface. If anyone has anything to add please do not hesitate to do so. None of this should be used to pass judgement on Lindsey's character. The purpose of this is to understand how others view Lindsey, to find her weaknesses that someone may have preyed on, give insight into what someone's purpose might have been to take or harm Lindsey, and to try and put ourselves into Lindsey's shoes and imagine her thoughts and actions the night she disappeared.


Lindsey had been planning to celebrate her upcoming July 7 birthday by going with a group of friends to the new "Harry Potter" movie a few days later
http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=7966924&page=2 (http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=7966924&page=2)

Mother believes her daughter would never have willingly gotten into a stranger's car.
"If somebody grabbed her she would have put up a fight," she said. "She would definitely scream."
http://www.komonews.com/news/local/49511367.html (http://www.komonews.com/news/local/49511367.html)

...outgoing, talkative and mature for her age. She loved to read and write and had big plans for her future.
"She insisted when she grows up she's going to be an author and an illustrator and a veterinarian," (quote by Melissa Baum)
http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=7966924&page=1 (http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=7966924&page=1)

Michaela & Lindsey were “almost inseparable” and loved to spend time together talking about “10-year-old girl stuff, boys and music, school occasionally.” (quote by Kara)

Lindsey is a “chatterbox.” “She’s very, very talkative,” “One of those girls who only takes a breath when she absolutely has to.” (Quote by Kara)

 “a smart little girl.”
“I just don’t see her willingly getting in a stranger’s car, she’s too smart for that.” (quotes by Linda Cunningham, owner of McCleary Video)

"Lindsey’s a very outgoing, very independent girl”  “She’s socially active in her peer group.” (quotes by Undersheriff Rick Scott)

http://www.theolympian.com/2009/06/30/896613/search-for-missing-girl-includes.html (http://www.theolympian.com/2009/06/30/896613/search-for-missing-girl-includes.html)

Lindsey is afraid of the dark
Lindsey was known to not always answer her phone and on more then one occasion try to talk someone into letting her stay over and notifying her mom was not a top priority
(found in Kara's posts) http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?action=profile;u=6810;sa=showPosts (http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?action=profile;u=6810;sa=showPosts)

Melissa Baum said Lindsey’s birthday wish was for a digital camera so she could upload pictures to her computer.

Lindsey was in Girl Scouts. She went to church at the Evergreen Christian
Center in McCleary, an offshoot of a larger church in west Olympia. She
sometimes worked the front counter at Baum’s store in Elma, a “dollar
store.”

She didn’t spend much time watching television but she
loved using the computer, including the popular social networking site
MySpace and hanging with her friends, according to her family.

MySpace.com lists two Lindsey Baums in McCleary with MySpace pages.

One, with a picture of Lindsey’s pet German Shepherd on the page, is marked
“private.” It lists her mood as “adored” and the name of her account as
“DISTURBED.” But it gives no other public information.

A second MySpace account is more public. Her nickname there is TWILIGHT FREAK.
She loved the popular “Twilight” series of books, love stories about
teen-age vampires. And Stephen King novels. And S.E Hinton, who wrote
“The Outsiders.”

She listed her best friends as her personal heroes. And said she wants to have children “someday.”

She also described herself a little older — 13 years old, instead of 10. And taller — 5-foot-2 instead of her 4-foot-9 stature.

Within two hours of creating this second MySpace account in May, Baum
allegedly wrote: “I’ve been getting a lot of nightmares lately and I
have this bad feeling that something bad is gonna happen.”

Baum attended school for a short while in Elma, near the McCann home. But
this year, she enrolled as a fifth-grader at McCleary School. Her mom
said she got along very well with her teacher Lynn Bolster.

With a group of girls, sometimes she would walk to school, which is just a
few blocks farther than where she disappeared. Most times she would
ride the school bus.

The divorce was causing her grades to suffer, her mom thinks. And friends of Lindsey said she was missing a fair share of school days because of “stress.”

“Lindsey was having a hard time this school year,” Melissa Baum said. “This was not
a good year for her — with the divorce and everything.”

“She sits and writes notes and poems,” her mother said. “She’s won a couple of contests for her writing. This last year she won second place for the fifth-grade writing competition.”

When she was living in Tennessee, her family says she was part of a special
summer writing program at the University of Tennessee. She won a
scholarship to be part of it. The experience made her want to be a professional writer.

But she also has other dreams — like being an artist. Her family said she’d love to write and illustrate her own book, in fact.

She also loves animals and flirted with the idea of being a veterinarian.
She had cared for her 5-year-old German shepherd Kadence since the dog
was a puppy.

Sometimes she could make a mountain out of a mole hill, the family says, but they don’t
think any of that played into a runaway scenario.

“She’s a very emotional child,” her mom said. “We’ve always called her a drama queen.”

One of Lindsey’s best friends, 11-year-old Christina Richards, said the two
would hang out together at a local creek or the city park and muse
about life.

“I asked her a question when I first met her about
where she would go if she were to run away and I said I’d want to run
away to the Bahamas. She didn’t want to.” Christina says Lindsey wanted
to stay here.

Groups have also been searching trails behind the Simpson Door mill. Friends said it was an area the girl liked to visit.

http://**/articles/2009/07/01/local_news/doc4a4ba94721f78989072462.txt (http://**/articles/2009/07/01/local_news/doc4a4ba94721f78989072462.txt)


Police Chief George Crumb said he used to look out his office window from the police station on Summit Road and see Lindsey Baum walking with her regular group of friends.
 “She was pretty much a daily fixture of the area,” “She seemed to be, you could even say, the leader of the little group.” (quote by Police Chief George Crumb)
 http://www.theolympian.com/2009/10/31/1021596/after-four-months-authorities.html

This is a semi-profile of McCleary. It might give some outsiders a better understanding of the town. Some of these are quotes and opinions from people found in articles regarding Lindsey. Again, not to be used to pass judgement on the town, but to get an understanding of people's opinions, etc.

"People are always taking that exit to get gas. That town isn't as safe as it appears and I hope that little girl is ok" (comment)
http://www.komonews.com/news/local/49343017.html#idc-cover (http://www.komonews.com/news/local/49343017.html#idc-cover)

"She was probably picked up by some drunks coming from the Little Creek Casino... I grew up in the area too and they like to go fast and swerve right through the middle of town next to the cop shop.." (comment)
http://www.komonews.com/news/local/49428097.html#idc-cover (http://www.komonews.com/news/local/49428097.html#idc-cover)

"There is also the wildlife factor we have a rise in cougar and bear populations. McCleary is "home of the bear festival" (comment)
http://www.komonews.com/news/local/49511367.html (http://www.komonews.com/news/local/49511367.html)

"you can't do much in a town this size without everybody knowing about it" (quote by Dave Pimentel )
http://www.komonews.com/news/local/49383897.html (http://www.komonews.com/news/local/49383897.html)

"i live down the road in Elma, and both towns are similar in the fact that kids run the streets, that's just how it is here, it might as well be called Kidsville. we are known for having tons of children here as well as senior citizens. the roads are filled with bikes and motorized wheelchairs. it's very safe here, the cops, business owners, other adults etc. all cooperate in looking out for them. when a sex offender was moving to town the cops distributed his photo door to door, posters in every shop window, every kid had his name and face memorized. he never came. the summer atmosphere is generally very norman rockwell, the kids literally take over the town, the swimming hole becomes the only potential danger, where parents do attend their children, often spending the whole day there closely watching theirs and everyone elses. our worst problem was children shoplifting candy, until they put in the cameras. they run around on bikes, skateboards, scooters and rollerskates. the speed limit is 10-20 mph. last night it wasn't dark til about 10 p.m. (and we do have a curfew here in Elma, can't remember if McCleary does). a lot of us here prefer to send our kids to school there, and lots of kids ride the city bus back and forth, even very young ones. they sit at the front and are watched like a hawk by the driver and faithful regulars. and yes we are slightly old fashioned in that boys often do walk girls home." (comment)
http://abcnews.go.com/US/comments?type=story&id=7966924 (http://abcnews.go.com/US/comments?type=story&id=7966924)

Undersheriff Rick Scott said ground search crews will focus on specific areas on the outskirts of town, such as brushy areas that children are known to frequent. It's possible a child could become tangled in heavy brush, he said.
http://www.thenewstribune.com/2009/06/30/795723/search-effort-for-missing-mccleary.html (http://www.thenewstribune.com/2009/06/30/795723/search-effort-for-missing-mccleary.html)

Melissa Fulton, a McCleary hair stylist, said many local residents feel comfortable letting their children play outside or ride bikes around town until dark.
http://www.theolympian.com/2009/06/30/896613/search-for-missing-girl-includes.html (http://www.theolympian.com/2009/06/30/896613/search-for-missing-girl-includes.html)


McCleary’s location near several highways increases the number of locations where an abductor could have taken her, Scott said. The roads out of McCleary include state Route 8, which leads to U.S. Highway 101 and Interstate 5; and state Route 108, which leads past Little Creek Casino toward Shelton. http://www.theolympian.com/2009/10/31/1021596/after-four-months-authorities.html (http://www.theolympian.com/2009/10/31/1021596/after-four-months-authorities.html)


Misc. town details; links to the resources where these are referenced are below:

small mill town
a town where everyone knows their neighbors
population 1,550
town surrounded by forests
logging roads
highways
railroad tracks
creeks
ponds and lakes
drainage ditches
marshy areas
swamps southwest of town
a few businesses located just off the street Lindsey would have used to get home
Straddleline ORV park & Capitol Forest nearby
http://www.komonews.com/news/local/49383897.html (http://www.komonews.com/news/local/49383897.html)
http://www.thenewstribune.com/2009/06/29/795115/still-no-sign-of-missing-aberdeen.html (http://www.thenewstribune.com/2009/06/29/795115/still-no-sign-of-missing-aberdeen.html)
http://www.theolympian.com/2009/06/30/896613/search-for-missing-girl-includes.html (http://www.theolympian.com/2009/06/30/896613/search-for-missing-girl-includes.html)
http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=7966924&page=2 (http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=7966924&page=2)
http://www.komonews.com/news/local/49891642.html (http://www.komonews.com/news/local/49891642.html)

Sex offenders in area that should be looked into include: those that live in town, transient sex offenders, offenders who have connections to McCleary
http://www.theolympian.com/2009/06/30/896613/search-for-missing-girl-includes.html (http://www.theolympian.com/2009/06/30/896613/search-for-missing-girl-includes.html)

Information about McCleary from Citi-Data.com:  http://www.city-data.com/city/McCleary-Washington.html (http://www.city-data.com/city/McCleary-Washington.html)

Nearest cities: Malone-Porter, WA (2.7 miles ), Elma, WA  (2.7 miles ), Kamilche, WA (2.9 miles), Satsop, WA (3.2 miles ), Brady, WA  (3.6 miles ), Shelton, WA  (3.7 miles ), Wynoochee, WA (3.9 miles ), Oakville, WA  (3.9 miles ).

Ummm...sorry, that Citi-Data information is way off on the distance to the nearby towns.  :smt101

This is a more accurate calculation of distance from McCleary to the following (I didn't put all of towns from above):

Elma: 8.3 miles
Malone/Porter: 9.1 miles
Satsop: 12.3 miles
Brady: 13.7 miles
Shelton: 17.5 miles
Oakville: 19 miles
Olympia: 21 miles
Ocean Shores: 53.8 miles

For sure a Taurus? Is there a possibility that it could have been a tan Mercury Sable?

Do you know if Harry Oakes was working with Law Enforcement or was he just on his own?

Jademoff, I know your asking this question to doubledecker, but I believe the local LE was sorta against Harry Oakes searching. Sorry if this is wrong but that's the information that I heard.

I hope your onto something with your resent sleuthing!  ::monkeywine2::

they said it was for sure a taurus, as we have asked if it could be a few other cars that look just like a taurus, and they said they are sure it was a taurus... but still, it would not hurt to keep other styles(look-a-likes) in mind... there is a very telling identifying mark on the bumper though, however that might not any longer be there. 

I do have a pic of a van thought that is said to look like the van in question.

If you think you might know of a vehicle which might match the "taurus" then by all means get a photo to me and I will have the person who saw it to look at it. 

he was in contact with them and shared his info with them and the fbi, however, I would say he was NOT WORKING "with" them...I can't comment in detail about this as I said I wouldn't... but ... harry oakes contracted with amanda, MB's sister(it had to be a family member or LE before he will work on a case).  He sent all of his info & anything he found to LE and fbi; that is the extent of his doing much in conjunction with LE, not because HE would not have worked WITH them... I am sure he was willing to work with them, and I am sure he would have done much more if anyone would have wanted him to.   

A Mercury Sable is the same thing as a Ford Taurus, just made by Mercury (Jademoff is a car woman FYI  ::MonkeySlide::)

Also an early 1990's Ford Taurus is an odd vehicle for someone to invest getting a new paint job on. I will keep my eyes and ears open for it though.

the van also had a new paint job which is really weird also.

also these two vehicles were seen at 9:30 pm at the same time yet neither of them see lindsey on that street?  or could one of them have been the witness who said they saw lindsey on their way to work??? I don't know.. but if they they are the one who thought they saw lindsey on their way to work, then they definitely saw that other vehicle too.  it would have to be the van who MIGHT be the witness, because if it were the taurus who was the witness I really doubt they would be parked weird like that if they saw her... also, if it were the taurus who was the witness the police would know who was in the taurus... so if either of these two vehicles were the witness, then it would have to be the van... or... it is the person who saw the van and the taurus.  however, it is not the taurus who is the witness I would not think... why would they be parked like that with the door open... also, the police do not know who they are, or they didn't know...

we really need to figure out who this taurus belongs too. 

I will get a pic of the mercury sable to the person who saw the "taurus" and see if it might have been the sable.  That could account for the color being off?  but do they paint the taurus cars with the same paint as the sables?  seems they might.. if so, still would be an aftermarket paint job. 

Can you share more detail about this without jeopardizing anything? I'm trying to figure out what you mean by the taurus parked that way with the doors open? I read back but don't see a post about this and I'm trying to understand.

The paint from the vehicles I will have to look into. I can't see someone painting one of those vehicles an aftermarket color though, just because they aren't one of those vehicles that people do after market paint jobs to, UNLESS they have it as some sort of Show car, which is very unlikely unless however it was a Sho Taurus (spelled Sho, it's the sports version of the Taurus.)

I don't know how bright the color of tan the car was, but here is a Mercury Sable in a tannish/silverish color.

http://autos.yahoo.com/used-cars/mercury-sable-pictures-cars348063086;_ylt=AkH9MDObaEWxQeLP_yHns4z3bY54;_ylv=3?sortcol=price&sortdir=up&listingtype=used&model=&make=&distance=50&picstart=1

Here also is a picture of what appears to be a 1995 Ford Taurus in a gold/tan color

http://avtosostav.ru/BMW/tuning/1990-95-Ford-Taurus.jpg

Sorry about so many posts at once. Here is another picture of the Mercury sable with a color they call Champagne.

http://images.search.yahoo.com/images/view?back=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.search.yahoo.com%2Fsearch%2Fimages%3Fp%3D1990%2BMercury%2BSable%26b%3D64%26ni%3D21%26ei%3DUTF-8%26xargs%3D0%26pstart%3D1%26fr%3Dyfp-t-701%26fr2%3Dtab-web&w=100&h=68&imgurl=www.motorcities.com%2Fmedia%2Fimages%2F100%2F04L6E293505775A.jpeg&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.motorcities.com%2Fvehicle%2F04L6E293505775.html&size=2k&name=1990+Mercury+sab...&p=1990+Mercury+Sable&oid=370642c7bc426ff6&fr2=tab-web&no=83&tt=94&b=64&ni=21&sigr=11m0tqg2k&sigi=11pld9b3p&sigb=13vgmjr0u

I just want to put a call out to other locals and non-locals that feel they have something to contribute to Lindsey's case. If you have been waiting for a long time getting approved here for membership you could try doing what I did and email Klaasend about it. I'm not sure if I should put the email address here so I'll just direct you to the scaredmonkeys page where you can find the contact information on the right hand side: http://scaredmonkeys.com/ (http://scaredmonkeys.com/).

Geez, I hope I don't get in trouble for suggesting that, but I know there are others who wanted to come on here and discuss things and I think some fresh input here might get things going again.  ::MonkeyWink::

We don't have to name names or point fingers if that's what's holding some of you back. I'd like to paint a picture of McCleary around the time period that she vanished. What was going on in and around town? Why would someone be passing through McCeary? What route do you think Lindsey took? What are some of your theories and thoughts?

It's getting close to A YEAR THAT LINDSEY HAS BEEN MISSING. I can't stand the thought of that, and I know you folks here feel the same.

Wherever you are Lindsey, we're still digging for the truth, and we won't stop until you're home!  ::MonkeyShovel::

 

This has been gone over before but it won't hurt to refresh our memories. It's not a timeline really, but an outline of Lindsey's day and her walk home. This is what I've found and I'm sure there's more stuff to add that I've forgotten or don't know so please add to it.


Lindsey left her cell phone at home before leaving to play with friends Friday
Michaela had spent Friday with Lindsey and a group of other girls, swimming at a friend’s pool
Lindsey was at McCleary Video with a group of friends around 8:15 Friday night, located at 225 W Simpson Ave
Some time later, Michaela, Josh & Lindsey headed to Michaela's house after leaving Lindsey's house on Mommsen
Josh left to return home before his sister after the two had a dispute
Between 9 and 10 p.m. Friday Lindsey left her friend's home on Maple Street
Lindsey was going to walk to her home on Mommsen, which is roughly a 10-minute walk on a densely populated suburban street
Light was waning but the sun hadn’t gone down

I remember there was a lot of people questioning if it was dark or not when Lindsey headed home. It really does stay light out here late that time of year. Here's a link to the weather underground that shows temps, the phase of the moon and sunrise/sundown information for June 26, 2009.
http://www.wunderground.com/history/airport/KSHN/2009/6/26/DailyHistory.html?req_city=NA&req_state=NA&req_statename=NA (http://www.wunderground.com/history/airport/KSHN/2009/6/26/DailyHistory.html?req_city=NA&req_state=NA&req_statename=NA)

(This actually shows Shelton, but that's as close as I could get.)

You'll see it shows Civil Twilight as 9:52 PM that night. This is a definition given for Civil Twilight: This is defined to be the time period when the sun is no more than 6 degrees below the horizon at either sunrise or sunset. The horizon should be clearly defined and the brightest stars should be visible under good atmospheric conditions (i.e. no moonlight, or other lights). One still should be able to carry on ordinary outdoor activities.

If we go off of that, it was still fairly light out when Lindsey headed home, but getting dark fast. So if Lindsey really is afraid of the dark like we've heard, it seems she would head straight home. That's my thinking anyway.

I've always wondered who sent her brother home after the bike dispute.  Was it just what it appears, break up the fighting by separating the siblings, or could this person have wanted Lindsey to lose her escort back home?

I had wondered that too, but thinking about it the town starts to get quiet that time of night, and being close to the beehive a lot of the people there were probably already in bed, and with the two kids argueing and probably being really loud, whoever it was that knew them and heard them outside probably thought they were going to wake the whole neighborhood up, so sending the one home would quiet it back down. They probably didn't know if Lindsey was going to stay the night or if Kara's daughter was going to stay the night at Lindsey's, and then they just didn't think about the chance of Lindsey walking home alone. One thing about that though is since there was apparently a text sent to MB about sending Josh home, and then Lindsey having her own cell phone, I would have thought that MB would have called Lindsey to find out what was going on, and then discover Lindsey doesn't have her phone on her.

Oh, no worries, any little bit helps :). Harry Oakes is just a subject I'm on the fence with, I think now I'm starting to climb down one side of the fence rather than the other though. There is just so much that doesn't make sense to me.... LE being against him is the main thing. While a lot of people might think it's stupid that LE didn't work with him (based off the reputation we read about on the website for Harry Oakes) I know they have good reasons for not working with him.

Am I getting my cases mixed up or was there a meeting of some sort going on that night?

No, this is the correct case. There was a town meeting going on that night.

Do you recall where the meeting was held?

There was also talk of a retirement party that the Mayor attended but I'm note sure where it was at.

I found this in an older post about the party --

McCleary Mayor Wallace Bentley remembers the night Lindsey disappeared like it was yesterday. The little girl’s route home would have taken her right past his house. In fact, a confirmed sighting of Lindsey has her disappearing right outside his home on Maple Street, within view of his windows.

 “I’ve been bending my brain around what happened ever since,” Bentley said. “I returned home from a retirement party for a city employee. I was there. I know I saw kids on the street. But did I see her? I don’t know. I wish I could say I did, but I just don’t know.”

 Across the street, William Self, 79, says he was home, too. But he didn’t see anything either. He says an FBI agent looked through his home and in his backyard for Lindsey, like they did for practically every neighbor up and down the six or seven blocks it would have taken Lindsey to go from her friend’s house back home.

From what I've been told there are various reasons LE may not want an outside party involved in a search or investigation. I can respect that but I'm not ready to discount the Oakes report completely. The recent news of Amber Dubois from California being found, and allegations that LE didn't consider information gathered by privately hired scent-sniffing dogs which showed they had followed Amber's trail from Escondido to the Pala area where she ended up being found, makes me keep Oakes report in mind.

That's just how I'm feeling about it, I'm not trying to sway what side of the fence your on Jademoff.

That helps me to consider taking a look at his reports again. At this point in time, we don't know where Lindsey is and this man did go into McCleary and offer some help.
That's just how I'm feeling about it, I'm not trying to sway what side of the fence your on Jademoff.
[/quote]

[/quote]

Eeek! That last post was terrible. I'm going to take a look at his reports again, and figure out map locations. I think the first time I took a look at them, I was still pretty shaken up about her being missing for that long. I'm doing it because we don't know where Lindsey is.

It was a AA meeting, or NA meeting, or something for sex offenders. I can't recall but someone found that a friday meeting is held somewhere near or in McCleary. 

I missed that! If you find where that was talked about I would like to see it and find out more about it.  ::MonkeyShocked::

It was somewhere in the beginning of the threads. I think it was the same time as the forum was talking about the church there. I think this is when it was found.

Or maybe it was the community center? Oh gosh I don't know. does anyone recall this?

Retirement party that the mayor attended was going on in McCleary that night.

It was not this, I think at the time we talked about the meeting we didn't know about the mayors event.
It may have been earlier in the day. There was an AA meeting or an NA meeting, someone posted the schedule and it was on that friday.
Does anyone know how to find things on this forum? The search never works for me.

Tracygirl, I think you will find what you are looking for under the thread here about Weirdos and churches:  I don't know how to bring stuff over correctly -- but I think what you are looking for is in that thread.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote from: doubledecker on July 14, 2009, 07:18:20 PM
Quote from: doubledecker on July 14, 2009, 07:04:50 PM
and then for a local to tell me that half of the congregation has quit going there, then what does that say?  if even the members of the church don't like something going on there, to the point of HALF of them leaving, that tells me something too. 

local told me
 apparently northwest life has cancelled all services except sunday morning for a while until they figure out "what's wrong" (why everyone left).


someone has told me
they have stopped some of the church services for a 6 week period

they THINK the services they have stopped are:
Saturday night
Sunday Night
Wednesday Night
AND THE YOUTH GROUP which was on FRIDAY nights
 

VERY interesting........is Wayne Watne connected to this group and is there a meeting place in McCleary for this group?Will see what I can find.
I wanted to tell you DD,that the santanic stuff scares the caca out of me and I try not to read/see anything about it so I cannot participate in that aspect of this case investigation but I promise I will try and be stronger and keep up with it.
Just that topic gives me what I say is devil nightmares.
I watched a Law&Order show last night that I had dvr'd from a month or so ago and it dealt with child sexual abuse in this cult but this was a so called"God"cult....no sacrificing of kids but they raised their kids to have sex(as a group)with everyone in the cult....from a very young age.
It was a scary and very sad show.

Thanks Sister for finding that. I do recall the youth group. Wasn't it something about an AA group was at the same place or near the youth group meetings? Gosh I remember the conversation but cannot find the thread.

Found these. I know it was an AA group or a NA and we spoke about sex offenders. was it at one of the churches they had a self help group for sex offenders?
http://karisable.com/12step.htm
AA meetings

McCleary
Saturday

7:00pm United Methodist Church 426 S (3rd and Oak) McCleary, Wa

Elma

Monday

5:30pm Faith Lutheran Church 1296 Monte-Elma Rd Elma Wa

Wednesday

9:30am St. Luke’s Episcopal Church Division and Young Elma Wa

Thursday

7:00pm Faith Lutheran Church 1296 Monte-Elma Rd Elma Wa



Narcotics Anonymous

Elma

Tuesday

7:00pm 1st Methodist Church Annex 505 W Young St, Elma

Friday

7:00pm 1st Methodist Church Annex 505 W Young St, Elma
Saturday

9:00pm 1st Methodist Church Annex 505 W Young St, Elma

Montesano