Scared Monkeys Discussion Forum

(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c100/crazybabyborgs/MOD/Elizabeth20.gif)

 ::MonkeyBike::

Thanks for unlocking this one, Klaas.  I always wait till the very last in case Robots shows up.  We all know how he used to love to cheat  ::MonkeyLaugh::

 ::MonkeyJnBox:: ::MonkeyJnBox::

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KuavXaJjuqw

I posted this in the last cage as an ending for the cage...

have a good day monkeys, have family coming in from out of town so have a full day ahead of me.. corned beef brisket is on stove, will add cabbage , potatoes and carrots in a while..... Take care all

RIP Elizabeth.

http://www.kmiz.com/news/story.php?id=15347


Parents Worried, Town Looking for Answers
After Elizabeth Olten's killing, residents are waiting to find out which rumors are true.
Posted by Erica Nochlin on Thu Oct 29, 2009
Last updated 10 hrs ago

 

With Halloween coming up, some mid-Missouri parents are thinking twice about where to let their kids trick or treat after learning about Elizabeth Olten's killing.

A 15 year old girl remains in custody, accused of killing Elizabeth in St. Martins.

Amber Cundiff works at Stacy's Market, a place she calls, "gossip central."  She says the gossip hasn't stopped since the murder, and now residents are wanting the rumors about the suspect confirmed.

"They want it to be open to the public, justice to be served, she should get what she deserves," Cundiff said.

She wants the accused 15 year old to be tried as an adult, but until a judge makes that decision, authorities are reluctant to release her name - even though residents feel confident they know it.

"Everybody's talking about it, it's crazy, it really is, it's hectic," Jamie Willeford said.  She goes to Jefferson City High School.  That's where she and other students say the suspect used to show up each day.

"A lot of grief, sadness, all throughout the school," Willeford said.  "Some of the teachers really don't want it to be spoken about in class."

But Jamie's mom isn't worried about the high school.  Instead, she's more concerned about her younger daughters.

"My seven year old catches the bus, just like a street over, and I'm even nervous about that, it's crazy," Janelle Hollandsworth said.

For parents so close to the alleged murder, that concern is a common theme.

 "I have a little boy myself, it makes me very worried," Cundiff said.  "It makes me very paranoid at what he's doing at all times."

The hearing to decide whether or not the 15-year-old will be tried as an adult is next month, and it will be open to the public.   

It's very beautiful, searching.  I was going to bring it over from the last thread, but I couldn't get that thread to lock, even after 3 tries.  I wonder if it was the puter gremlins?   ::MonkeyDevil2::

Last night someone posted some videos, one I saw, it was of the suspect and brother and an electric fence. People are talking about a pool, I didn't see a pool, unless I missed it, is there another video besides the electric fence one? And if there is could someone please post it.  ::MonkeyCool::

http://www.youtube.com/user/OkamiKage#p/u/1/FVu8wglJ6Jw

look to the right, the 4 uploads are all hers.

http://www.youtube.com/user/OkamiKage#p/a/u/2/B1ZWypv4v10

http://www.youtube.com/user/OkamiKage#p/a/u/2/B1ZWypv4v10

i think this is it.

woops...plenty to choose from!

Thank you MuffyBee. I don't think that in the end,what is posted or was posted will matter because the mention of this girl being on meds 2 years ago for "issues" is setting the ground work for an mental defect defense. I am saddened by that and the fact a little child lost her life for someone else to get a thrill. I guess hurting people got boring to the little demon so she had to kill to get the rush. "gone too soon" seemed appropriate for cage change. I pray for comfort and peace for Elizabeth's loved ones. How heart broken they must be.

Thanks Searching...Ryan was an inspiration to so many people. Have a great time with you family....and  the food sounds GREAT!!

 Thank-you I will check it out.

Thanks Klaas.....the powers to be need to listen to the people!!

I am assuming this is defending the boyfrined.  If true very interesting in regards to timeline.

BLOCKED WEBSITE

I call B.S. on this SpecialBoy1 as being a friend of AB's boyfriend.

8:52 am on a Friday morning and he's posting on the internet?

The Sheriff needs to get a grip and handle this with the community. He really should issue some sort of statement to calm everyone down. The more he lets rumors fly around the more chances that someone is going to get hurt. If I was those grandparents of AB, I'd never bring my grandchildren back into that community ever again. I'm not saying that the community is bad as a whole, they're righteously angry and you know there's a couple of fruit loops in the mix that can and probably will take things a step too far.

I think I saw somewhere that there was no school today. My kids actually have off today too and we're not even in the same state.

Northern, have you seen any evidence/inference to a boyfriend except from Specialboy1?

I have not been able to find a boyfriend so far.

you're right - just checked and no school today.

Thank you,Searching.   ::MonkeyAngel::

I agree.

If anything, as has been said before the air of secrecy has only succeeded in infuriating people even more than they would have been if only the public was given the name of the suspect, and assured that the authorities were working to protect the community.

I have a feeling that there are going to be some disappointed kids on Halloween - not as much trick or treating freedom as years before.

No school today at Jefferson City HS

http://www.jcps.k12.mo.us/education/components/calendar/calendar.php?sectiondetailid=11983&&PHPSESSID=3c9e9f4b53bf3c387ec255a268744681

Hi One and all..
  I am new.. I discovered this site searching for information on this awful crime. It took me a day to get where I could post. I have read through about page 85, as of last night, and have the rest to catch up on today. In reading through the pages of things I have a few thoughts and commnets.. and lotsa questions.

 First I Know that (JME) person is NO longer here, but maybe they are lurking and reading.. BEING raised by a grandmother IS not being a foster child. My grandmother raised me and had to have guardianship to get me in school etc.. My mother had problems, and I am grateful that my grandmom was there, I had the best.  That being said as we all know having parents w/ issues IS NOT a defense. Too many of us whom have been raised by grandparents or other caring people live perfectly happy lives..AND DONT KILL.


 A question..in the post from AOL(the one that seems to have outted AB's name) I saw it on this site Tuesday night..but it is dated October 29 at like 9:44 pm... Tuesday was the 27???

 Has anyone else noticed AB's Myspace account was signed into yesterday??


A big question I keep asking myself id has anyone else wondered if AB has any connection to Jasmine Haslag?
 I k

http://www.youtube.com/v/2F1Cj7gVIHM&hl=en&fs=1&

Nothing other than the one person defending his friend.

Cont..the last page kept messing up. I know there were some initial thought the killing was over a cell phone(I am sure that was in part due to AB's Tweet) I thought maybe it was..but the cell phone was left near the body.


 I really think some of LE's secrecy, in this case is to protect the family of AB. If I am reading everything correctly there are other minor children in her family. I am HOPING they have a different last name and can live a somewhat normal lives, this isn't their fault..but I worry Elizabeth's playmate will have major issues to deal with.

OHH and a bigquestion(that really does not matter, but has me saying huhmmm) IS WHO do you all think JME was?? It is driving me crazy..lol I went thru all the links posted but did not see anyone I thought would be them replying??

 ::cartwheel::  WELCOME Txsflame   ::cartwheel::

JME is someone who is busy trying to get the focus off of this case regarless what nic they are using

<snipped from yesterday>

Where are your manners? Where does it stop? You have no idea what is going on around here. I realize your keyboard gives you a certain degree of boldness; but I doubt you would be so determined to get your point across if you were face to face with the families involved. This is not a matter of our Amendments, it is the difference of right and wrong, common sense. I'm sure most people have nothing but good intentions; however some really need to move on. I can't speak for everyone, so personally -the compassion is appreciated - the suspicion of our law enforcement is NOT. They have done a great job. They have not given any reason for doubt. They deserve our appreciation for the professionalism and speedy progress of their investigation. The MINOR is in custody, what more could you ask for?

http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/story.aspx?id=366962

There's always internet access on cell phones too.  For example, Verizon has internet access for phones at $29.00 a month.  They don't necessarily need to be a blackberry anymore.   I wouldn't pay that for my child/student, but then some parents would.  Or some students may  have part time jobs and may pay for their cell phones, as I've see some do.  JMHO

BLOCKED WEBSITE

Hi Txsflame, and welcome!   ::MonkeyDance::

Good questions! 

Personally, am thinking that JME person, who it seems has been running the internet with a lot of different names, might be the defense attorney or one (or more) of his helpers.  Seems similiar messages are being posted everywhere, within the same timeframe. 

About ABs myspace.. yes, that was logged into and scrubbed clean of the writings/messages, same with ABs other pages.  Not only that but also any/all of the public court records that contained her name and info.  Someone has been verrrrrrrry busy, deleting deleting.  LOL   

I wonder too, if there is any connection to Jasmine.  Hmmmm.  Have been tucking that idea away for now, waiting on more factual info to come out.  What seems especially odd to me are those early posts online at one of the comment sections online (which could have been written by anyone, but then again, maybe not?), supposedly from one of Jasmine's children.  This person seems to be in such pain, seems to have such a need for others to 'feel their pain'.  And with what seems to have happened with AB and Elizabeth... Hmmmmm.. Yes, it does seem to me there *could be* a connection of sorts.  And wouldn't be at all surprised if it turns out to be true.  Guess we just have to wait this one out tho, see what more of the facts in the case are. 

Unfortunately, AB's younger twin bros have the same last name, but her little sis has a different one.   Am thinking if I were the caregiver, I'd be changing all the last names to ... Smith or Jones .. anything.   lol   To protect any other innocent in this case, for the future.  Could be why the g'parents took off so quickly, just to protect the younger ones.  We'll see. 

This is all just my take on this case, am interested in what other monkeys think too. 
 

Welcome Txsflame!  ::MonkeyDance::

Ty for all the replies.. I had gotten many answers when I went back and finished reading the post(I had eneded somewhere in the 80's last night)


 Oh I did want to add something about "cutters" that many may find interesting. Sadly my daughter was one. Thank God thru counseling, prayer she is done with this. What I found interesting about the cutting(and then talking to many others with the same problem) USUALLY they do it to take out frustrations on their self.  It is hard for me to explain..but as my daughter said. "I would get to where I didnt feel human, and seeing the blood reminded me I was". (She started this after she was victim of a sex crime and then 3 mths later her daddy walked out) I worked in the prisons at the time and spoke to inmates we knew to be cutters(yes I know I shouldn't have..but as a parent I NEEDED info) Most if not all, basically said they did it to punish theirself, and KEEP from hurting others. I know this isnt true in every case. My girl said she would get so angry she wanted to hurt someone anyone the way she was hurting, instead she hurt herself. I THOUGHT when I discovered her doing this it was to "punish" me, to strike out at me. (she blamed me for daddy leaving). I guess though if left untreated it would be like any addiction and escalate.. 

WELCOME  I am very sorry for what your daughter went through  ::MonkeyAngel:: And as a parent who knows to well about cutters, my heart goes out to you. Nothing wrong speaking to inmates to get info, we knew nothing about such a thing, and at first we handled it very wrong. My husband screamed at her, because he was so afraid of what she was doing. If the suspect is a cutter, I just don't see how that went to being a murderer, I'm sure there are incidents where it does escalate to that, but basically I thought it was to cause pain to get the attention off of how bad one was feeling inside. I think this girl has a whole host of issues, and one of them being drugs involved, I know we haven't heard anything about drugs, but I have a feeling there are drugs involved. So taking drugs, mental problems, cutting etc. could have all contributed. Not making excuses, for anyone, just I bet we will hear all this.

I have read about a boyfriend in at least one other instance, I don't remember where though.

Wyks I do not feel there is any connection with Jasmine's children and Elizabeth other than they have both suffered.  There is a connection now that Peggy Florence - Jasmine's mother and co founder of Missouri Missing has been with the Olten family since Elizabeth went missing.  What a amazing woman to do this.

I hope the Gparents get help for the three other children as they are going to need it.  If the rumours are true that Elizabeth's friend was the one who handed LE the note, then she had better be getting some counseling.  IMO there is no way the Gparents did not know what happened when LE was given the note and written evidence.  If the writings were found by a sibling of AB the logical first person to show it to would be one of the Gparents. 

JME stated that it was personal why she did not want the trial moved out of Cole County.  I think she is connected to the defense side in some way.  IMO she is on a rampage to tell everyone to move along as she does know more details than most and somewhere out in rumour world someone has gotten very close to the truth of the events as they transpired.  If defense has been busy busy beavers cleansing on line information can you imagine how nuts they must be going in not being able to erase a theory that is a little too close to the truth and control information that is on the net?  Their magic eraser is only working in a few places.

Northern Rose, if that rumor is true, then that would be the six year old? I am very suspicious of the coverup, but reading this morning that grandpa is a contractor of some sorts for the state that would make sense the protecting of the grandparents. And then to read they weren't being helpful and a search warrant had to be issued......

Well as a parent, I for one would have asked for them to take my daughters disappearance a little more seriously and not to have kept going on record as saying that they didn't feel foul play was indicated.  A 9 year old with no previous record of being a run away disappears on the way home, can't be found at night, and her last cellphone ping is in the woods behind the house she lives in when she is afraid of both the dark and the woods, and there is no indication of foul play?  The local LE f'ed up from the beginning.  They acted like jack@sses with their heads in their rears and now they try to cover up for the minor intended (the afore mentioned murder my neighbor had done when he was in high schoool, they had his name in the paper within 2 days and all he was was charged) leaves plenty for us to ask for us to see that the local LE is not so bright, nor so great, and I really don't care who I offend with my comment or opinion.  I am sorry for Elizabeths family that their daughters disappearance wasn't taken more seriously and that they had to endure the emotional disconcern the LE showed when they said foul play wasn't indicated when I am positive her family knew better.  And I ask for LE to stop covering for the minor and erasing her public records and accounts, etc.  I also ask for them to stop covering up their terrible job and try to move forward having learned something (I hope) so that this situation will never happen again, and if it does they don't mess up so bad.  I am tired of innocent people dying and everyone being so selfish that they have no regard for the life that was lost, they just want to cover their own behinds.  Take that JME, I know you are still watching.

yes the youngest of the 4 and half sister.

Ariana, I really believe right from the beginning, that because of who Elizabeth's father and brother are, LE didn't put as much effort into the investigation. Sad and disgusting, and they put more effort in protecting the suspect and her family. Everything seemed to be backwards.

Thanks, would she have known what to do after stumbling upon such horrible writings? Not that I think six year olds are stupid, by no means, just seems strange, I thought perhaps it was one of the brothers, which to me would make more sense  ::MonkeyConfused::

I always felt LE was in way over their abilities on this one.  Friday morning presser Sherriff White stated there were no signs of foul play also stated not sure Elizabeth was even in area.  After presser he gets written not from a Juvenile that points them to AB who then takes them to the body.  Friday presser #2 announce they have found the body.  Would LE have ever found Elizabeth if the minor had not handed them the note?  Something to ponder.

My belief, no  ::MonkeyNoNo::

While we are on the topic of LE,  why is the news media not following up on the events of this:

No Amber Alert
Reportedly turned away help from a specialized LE agency
What has LE learned from this?
Are there internal reviews going on so that the next missing child case may be handled differently?

All questions local media should be asking but are not and have absolutely no bearing on AB's case but DOES have a direct impact to everyone in the county that may be in a similar situation in the future.  Day two with no response from KOMU and I had escalate my email yesterday.  I also sent a email to KRCG yesterday and have heard nothing back either.  How very interesting that News likes to ignore emails out there.

This is all very strange. Do you believe like I do, that because of Elizabeth's father and brother, that all might have something to do with it? Almost like Elizabeth didn't get the proper attention because of her family, I sure hope I'm wrong.

Yes, and the person who was using JME as a  troll name has a connection to the state government. That is why I was asking the question about where the the Grandfather worked in JC doing IT work. That might be the connection. JMO

IMO in the beginning of this yes.  With her last name they did not pay the attention to this that they should have, just another Olten involved with LE.  If you watch Fridays presser where White announces they found her body he looks shocked, embarrassed and not as authoritative as he did in previous pressers. 

I believe you are right

How terrible, that says a lot doesn't it?   ::MonkeyNoNo::

 ::MonkeyAngel::     ::MonkeyWitch1::    ::MonkeyWitch1::    ::MonkeyAngel::

I think it could have been that, although there seems to be no scarcity of crime for him to take care of in the area. He came to the job from being a resource officer for the school district, for one, and was probably used to covering for the school board. Ellizabeth's relatives might have had a factor in the attitude, but I think the biggest thing is who AB's Grandparents (Grandfather?) who had connections to, and that some how has made AB "special."  Whoever has political pull has sat on the local media and the LE. JMO

From what others have said who are local, the media in the area is quite skilled on reporting only good things as nothing bad happens in Mayberry.  I forgot about Gpa being an IT consultant.  This could explain why KOMU and KRCG does not answer emails.  Their consultant is gone and there is no one there to fix their mail system.  DOH!

Another thing I am wondering about from the locals, and I wish TomSmith99 was here, is since the grandfather was out of town all week doing consulting work, where is the nearest airport for him to fly out of? Did he have his own plane, because all I could find within a reasonable distance were very small airports. I think Columbia might have the biggest airport I could find, and that quite a little jog for a weekly trip.

There isn't a shred of doubt in my mind that the Sheriff didn't take this seriously at all because it was an Olten. Period. Now he's scrambling and ducking.

I know in Florida our Amber Alert is very specific as to when it should be issued. Usually there needs to be some sort of vehicle description etc... However, being Florida is such a transient state and we have a lot of RSO's they tend to issue Amber Alerts immediately.

1.  they think that the public will accept that the "criteria" was not met with the Amber Alert system - also they will argue that an Amber would not have helped in this case.

2.  i doubt they will admit that they turned down the FBI - all articles that I have read over the last days have not reiterated this fact, just that the FBI was there to help.

3.  nothing.  they are too busy patting each other on the backs for "finding" Elizabeth.

4.  doubt it.  They don't seem like the type of LE org that has any internal reviews.

Question for you all:  anyone notice if Sheriff White attended Elizabeth's memorial or graveside services?

Truthfully, I don't think in this case an amber alert would have done anything. It is said she was being killed or dead by the time her mother called LE to begin with at 7:pm. But it is certain that LE did not take this seriously to begin with. And they really didn't, as far as I'm concerned on Thursday when they turned searchers away and the Juvenile experts to question the juveniles. The people in the area were willing to be out in that bad weather, but it was the LE that put the squash on it. IE Sheriff White. Even by Friday morning he was saying she might not even be in the area anymore, inferring to me that he thought she might have run away. And his demeanor really did change that Friday night.

Now we learn that the G'parents wouldn't allow the search without a late night signing of a search warrant, and then they have skedaddled and we can't even talk about them or say their name.. I want to know a whole lot more about them. They may be trying to protect the other children, but maybe not. There's a few skeletons in their closet too, that may or may not have something to do with this whole thing. I have a feeling that those boys, at least, know something about this, even if it is after the fact. Not only is that elementary school missing Elizabeth, but the two brothers and the 6 yr old. I wonder if they have even be interviewed by LE. Somehow I doubt it.

each state has different criteria but it absolutely CAN be stretched if the lead investigator feels it should be.  It should be in the best interests of the CHILD.  And how many Ambers have been out of Missouri lately?  Not like they were going to oversaturate, which was the excuse given.  Oh, and their experienced view that there was no abduction or foul play.  No matter that Elizabeth seemed to disappear into thin air, her father is a suspect in a missing woman case and has many enemies...

 ::MonkeyNoNo::

If we recall in Trenton Duckett's case (Florida, need vehicle description per criteria) there was no vehicle description.  Even the clothing was not sure - it was changed later.

Because he was not abducted, and guess what?  Cops knew that for an almost fact within 6 hours.

But they STILL issued an Amber - and if Florida isn't saturated, what state is?

Nope - White tried to downplay this entire situation, to his own detriment.  Because they way he handled this case has shown his community members (whether they want to see it or not) that CYA was his goal.

Elizabeth NEVER received complete concentration by White, imo.  Too much politics.

He did not attend.   Bill Currie's funeral was at the same time and he was at that one.

 That was what I was saying.I dont think "cutting" was a sign here..excpet of inner turmoil. "Cutters" want to harm themself..make theirself pay..not others.. My last statement was meant to say I guess without treatment it could escalte.. Wit a "cutter" I would be more concerned about suicide then them hurting another. jmho. I also know nothing is always true in every case!

Sorry thought just popped in my head... Do we KNOW she left the friends house at 6:15? I saw there was talk of atleast a miniumal attempt of cover up by gp of AB. (ie refusing to cooperate). Do we know when the last time a crediable person spoke to or saw her. OR is the grandparents of AB giving us the info on when she was last seen?

I agree that most cutters are doing it to self-harm.  Apparently they are able to release their inner pain this way.

But that said, I also believe that some people, especially killers, can very well suffer from more than one mental illness. 

Again to quote the Trenton Duckett case, Melinda Duckett was a cutter, but also violent towards others from what was reported.

I could have sworn that it was reported that "she was last seen walking up Route D".

But who knows who reported that.  Could have been her murderer who told LE that they last saw her walking.

I'm surprised at the cell phone call to Elizabeth, rumored by her killer to lure her back.  Why would the killer do that, when the cell p0hone company would have a record of it?  With or without the phone being found.

And, AB's cell phone had been taken away from her - so whose phone was used to place the call to Elizabeth?

AND, supposedly LE had those cell phone records pretty quickly.  Wouldn't they have see this call?

Doesn't make sense.

I'll never forget Sheriff Dawsey at Jessie Lunsford's service.  Stood right there supporting Mark.  You could not have kept Dawsey from being there, period.

Really??  ::MonkeyNoNo::

i don't know how to link a video, but her's the actual link:

http://www.fox2now.com/ktvi-elizabeth-olten-missing-girl-thurs-102309,0,77198.story

is this fence around this pond the electrical fence from the Youtube video?

(http://d.yimg.com/a/p/ap/20091023/capt.b806ab2d89294532864bb2140cc190ca.missing_girl_mo_jf109.jpg?x=400&y=239&q=85&sig=QBTZg2mxmJadzg7PVkJzLQ--)

My experience with cutters (and that's just from hanging out with kids in theater programs) is that they have usually been abused as children, and in consequence, have shut down their emotions.  The cutting, is done because they can actually feel the pain, and it's reassuring to them to be able to feel SOMETHING...anything.  As most of them have not let anyone know about the abuse, they have not had any sort of counselling for it, and so don't know how to open up their own feelings in a less destructive manner. 

I'm not saying that's true for all such kids, but that's why those that I know did it.

I think the driveway to the house goes up where the white truck and 4-wheeler are parked and up by the horse paddock behind the old house. Just remembering from the pictures posted earlier.  I believe that electrified fence follows that driveway, and I think they were closer to the Buff brick house TomSmith was talking about last night.

VEry well said Jane.. Exactly what I was trying to say in first post..just couldnt get it into words!

THE MOST - October 30, 2009

Thanks for visiting The Most on KOMU.com.  Here, we take a look at The Most viewed, Tweeted and Facebooked stories on KOMU.com.

The Most viewed stories on KOMU.com last week are about 9-year-old Elizabeth Olten.  Together, the reports collected nearly 30,000 page views.  Authorities began searching for Elizabeth last Thursday, after she didn't return home from a friend's house.  On Friday, a Highway Patrol helicopter and a team of over 130 volunteers and investigators searched for Elizabeth.  Cole County Investigators discovered her body on Saturday.

"We came into possession of some written documents, the results of those documents gave us a person of interest.  After questioning that individual, we were taken to the sight where the body was found." Cole County Sheriff Greg White said.

Cole County charged the 15-year-old individual with first degree murder.  The juvenile will attend a hearing in November to determine whether they will be tried as an adult.

MORE....

http://www.komu.com/satellite/SatelliteRender/KOMU.com/ba8a4513-c0a8-2f11-0063-9bd94c70b769/a6a6f048-80ce-0971-01d4-c754d5f652e3

I am thinking more and more that AB wrote some papers at school, and that is where the LE was tipped off by Sheriff White's good friend. She wrote her feelings down, and how she felt, and maybe what she thought about doing. G'parents were not co-operative and would not have allowed any of the sibling give them any information as far as diaries or journals. JMO

Been reading more and asking myself more questions..thought I would see what you alls opinions are on some of my questions.

  Several tiems now I have read that Elizabeth was "found several hundred yards behind ELIZABETHS house in woods".. Do you think Elizabeth was a picked and chosen target?.. Or anyone would have done? Meaning from the info you have gathered (since it seems AB had this planned) Did she know it was Elizabeth she was after??

 Most agree there were many things left ot be desired in the inital investigation/search. Some have mentioned the possibility of if it being due to Olten fathers criminal background. BUT what if it was becasue they already suspected AB?

 Who called Elizabeths mom at 6:15 was it Elizabeth or was it AB's grandpa? Did anyone really call? Do we even know for sure? I have read that Elizabeth told her mom something was not right and her mom told her to "come home" and I have read that the grandpa sent her home and called Elizabeths mom??  If either of this scenerios are fact, maybe AB had already "done something" that scared, worried, or hurt Elizabeth?? Or maybe someone in the house had..

 So many questions so few answers.


 Also I wish we DID know the true facts from the death cert. I dont want to know for the grizzley nastiness of it all, but those that have good "detective" skills can usually tell more of the motive for the killing by the facts of the death. Ie crime of passion vs crime of (wrong place wrong time) srry couldnt think of correct term.

 I know any answers to these question will only be speculation, just seeing if others are specualting on the same wave as me!?

written documents ~or~ handwritten notes????   frustrating!  a written doc could be a text, could be something from the computer...a handwritten note would be exactly that.  "Came into possesion"....were they given to them by the person who wrote them?  were they passed along the tip line?  did investigators find them online?  Were they found when they served the search warrant?  Did the phone company turn over texts???

I guess it doesn't matter...

in this video, White states that the body was found significantly close to the house where they started the investigation.

what does that mean?  AB's house?

http://www.kctv5.com/video/21408339/index.html

October 30th, 2009 12:47 am ET

Supposivly The 15 yr old said she did it because she wanted to know what it was like to kill someone with her own hands. I also heard she killed animals as a kid and buried them. So the night Elizabeth went missing the 15 yr old came in with a butcher knife and the parents thought nothing of it. And they just cleaned it off. I heard they might get the parents involved for not saying anything.


October 29th, 2009 9:56 pm ET

The 15 year old lived with her grandparents. From what I understand, the little sister and Elizabeth was outside playing and the teen told her sister to go inside, the teen then told elizabeth to follow her, as they were playing a game. she got her into the woods, where the grave was already dug, she stabbed her, cut her throat and strangled her. the grandparents have cooperated in the investigation, and are currently in a safe haven. from what i understand, the teen had a friend help. she never headed home, she was already dead by 7 o'clock.

http://nancygrace.blogs.cnn.com/2009/10/28/neighbors-say-elizabeth%e2%80%99s-friends%e2%80%99-home-was-searched-is-there-a-connection-to-the-killer-2/

Well I don't know but if my kid, grandchild whatever came into my house with a butcher knife I don't think that I would just take it and wipe it off, like it was just another day  ::MonkeyShocked::  Now the teen telling Elizabeth to follow her into the woods, playing some type of game, that I can totally see happening.

IA
I am not sure I buy the part with them just wiping a knife off, the part about following her into the woods I can totally see.

I can buy them wiping the knife off especially if AB lied about it> Maybe this was before they knew Elizabeth was missing. Then again, look at the lengths Cindy Anthony went to and still goes through to cover up for Casey. You just never know.

Inly question that I may know the answer to is they didn't serve the search warrant at the house until late Friday night/Sat Morning after Elizabeth's body had been found. TOMSMITH said they had to get a judge out of bed to sign it, according to some LE he had talked to. IIRC

Seems like it would have been easy enough to just throw the knife in the dishwasher with the rest of the dirty dishes and just turn it on. Even a 15 yr old could have done that. JMO

The GP's certainly boogied out of town FAST. They must've known for certain what went down and could've accidently or on purpose tampered with something they shouldn't have. I mean seriously? They just split! I can understand them wanting to get the little kids out of there but you'd think one of them would've stuck around for AB. The whole thing just smells.

That's the part that really bugs me too. I am not buy the "safe-Haven" bit. I am very afraid that some of the rest of the siblings know something about what happened, and they are keeping them from the authorities.  I was watching the interaction of AB and her brothers, and I can't help but feel there is something there. I would have at least thought the family would have made some kind of public statement. You are right, this whole thing stinks. And now it is the weekend, where everything shuts down, and it's gonna get stinkier, because there is nothing fueling this but rumors and bloggers who are not going to just sit back and wait for news to trickle out. I am sure there is just so much more to know. JMO

You are right Fanny. I didn't even think that the siblings might've seen something or heard something. You'd think the Sheriff would have said you need to stick around or something. Especially since she is a minor. She still needs a guardian nearby despite the lawyer. For them to leave her like that is just way too weird. I wouldn't be surprised if their house gets vandalized this weekend and on top of it it's Halloween.

Somewhere earlier someone posted a MS site of AB"bestfriend" . This same girl posted this...

December 14, 2008 - Sunday 
 elizabeth 2000-. ....
Current mood:  drained
 
That is all that is there!!! Elizabeth 2000-... What year is EO born 99 or 00.. Not sure but this is beyond scary!!!

Did they leave town? or Did they just go somewhere and nobody knows where? Maybe they are close enough to still be available for AB and/or LE, if not, IA something smells! I think it's very possible that the boys know something about what happened, even if only after the fact.

They probably thought she had just gone out and killed another animal :roll: no biggie :roll:

I noticed that last night, not sure what to think of it, but IA it is quite scary, I can't find Elizabeth DOB, so not sure on the year.

Her current mood is:
Last Login: 10/29/2009
Mood: hiding something Mood Image
 ::MonkeyEek::

The MS thing gets creepier.. It apparently was posted Dec 14 of 08. Elizabeths birthday is Dec 15 1999.. BUT possible someone AB's age(as in her best friend) would think the birthdya was 2000.  I do think this possible best friend though IS living on Wa., but recently moved there. MANY of her friends are from Wa.
 
 To me appear the "elizabeth 2000-..." was posted 1 day b4 EO 9th bday.

Topix boards:

http://www.topix.com/forum/city/jefferson-city-mo/THC8D8OQQFKLEVVVI

http://www.topix.com/forum/city/jefferson-city-mo/TBBQ8FOIA33RG1FPV

supposed video the perp made w/ bros.
http://www.youtube.com/user/OkamiKage&#035;p/a

Name:Alyssa
Hobbies:killing people, cutting

Sorry if that stuff has been posted....I can't possibly keep up.

Need some opinions.  Is this a second youtube that she set up and friended her other one?


Profile  Name:AlyssaChannel Views:285Joined:May 20, 2007Last Sign In:1 year agoVideos Watched:180Subscribers:0About Me: I like shoes Country:United StatesHobbies:YOUR MOM.Music:AFI, Panic! at the Disco, Evanescnece, Linkin Park, FlyleafBooks:What my Mother Doesn't Know

Saia56 (1 year ago) heeellllllllllllllloooooooooooooooooooooooooo hey!!! i miss talkin to my friend whats up!!! 
  Saia56 (2 years ago) lol alyssa i didnt know u had a youtube lolz 



http://www.youtube.com/user/omgxthesexshoesxrule#p/a/2/1whKQBcnLiQ

BLOCKED WEBSITE

oooooooooo..........I just found the other thread re: suspect

I wasn't able to pick her out, so I am wondering if she was doing the video. Is it just me, or do those boys look like her twin brothers?

I did not wait to say that out right, but that is exactly what I thought. That is her brother dancing.

I guess I may not be in majority here, but for myself, I am tired of tippy-toeing around the suspect and her grandparents just because that is what the LE in JC have decided to do. There is  a lot of info out there. We already know all the juvenile siblings names, and even the parents and the grandparents names, and the mother and fathers name and track record. Records are being swept off the official records and it is just making me mad! There is some accountability here, and I don't think the authorities in Mo have the stomach  to do it. I think Alyssa lost her juvi status when she struck whatever first blow there was to kill an 9 yr old child. I am really angry about the way this is being handled. Elizabeth Orten didn't deserve this and he case should not be swept under the rug because someone somewhere has political pull.

I think I am through with my rant, but I am not sure.  ::MonkeyMad::

 ::MonkeyHaHa::

 :smt064

 ::MonkeyTongue::

Well then, why the heck can't we talk about the rest of it. This is beginning to remind me of Columbine where the parents slinked off and hid and never did answer why it was that their sons could build BOMBS and buy GUNs  and plan the whole thing and do this in the sight of their own parents. Their parents FUNDED the mayhem, and yet they were never accountable and never showed their faces. Is this how this is going to end up? 

Fanny, all I've asked is for the photos of the suspect not be posted directly in the forum.  If you look at that other thread, you will see links to photos and myspace, twitter, facebook, etc.  Won't be long before her photo is all over the place and at that time I'll post all the screen shots I've captured and Red will likely do a front page post on her as well.  EVEN THOUGH WE ARE ALMOST 100% sure who the suspect is, we still don't have an ID from LE.  That is why we are being a little cautious.

I had been asked to make some images for Elizabeth and only had one photo to use. Since then, I have found quite a few more. This is one of my favorites. I heard she loved horses, so I incorporated one with her picture.

Brandi thats beautiful!

Her myspace was accessed again today.

I understand that KLAAS. But there is so much more to this case. By Nov 18 everything could be scrubbed clean, she's a juvi, too bad, so sad, and that's it. RIP ELIZABETH OLTEN. We can't talk about any of the adults around her. They are all protected because Alyssa is a Juvenile. Frustrating!

I agree with you Fanny May.  LE are hiding lots of things and it's catching because people on the blogs don't want to discuss the secret names either.  It took me forever to find out the suspect's name and now I feel like I'm committing a crime by inquiring as to the grandparents' names.  I realize it's none of my business.  Or is it?  I don't live in the area, but used to, and probably will again someday.  But the truth is, I would just like to know because I, like the rest of you, was totally shocked by this horrible murder.  Since none of the details are coming out yet, finding out all we can is a way to try to understand it in my own way.  if that makes any sense.   

It just goes to show...they might as well tell us, because, in this Age of the Internet, we are going to find out!

It's not just curiosity to want to look into the Grandparents/parents history. It is the way we investigate these cases and try to bring help justice to the victims. Who is representing Elizabeth if we are not? The LE and the JC authorities do not seem to be doing it. The courts are not doing it. The media is not doing it. They are protecting the murderer.  Why should we not know the backgrounds of the person that committed this murder? Why should we not know what brought this situation to this point? Information is power. To suppress it only makes it more important. We have many, many smart monkeys here, that have ferreted out some very pertinent information before. Some are sitting on it now. It is frustrating.

We know. We just can't discuss it. (http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab6/fannymae66/runcircles.gif) (http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab6/fannymae66/runcircles.gif) (http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab6/fannymae66/runcircles.gif) (http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab6/fannymae66/runcircles.gif)

Amber Alert Criteria for MO:


SCREEN AGAINST CRITERIA - Verify that ALL of the following MISSOURI AMBER ALERT abduction criteria have been met:

Law enforcement officials have reasonable belief that an abduction has occurred, which meets the definition in RSMo. 565.110 or 565.11.
 
[/i]

Law enforcement officials believe that the child is in imminent danger of serious bodily injury or death.

Enough descriptive information exists about the victim and the abductor for law enforcement to issue an AMBER Alert.

The victim of the abduction is a child age 17 years or younger.

The child’s name and other critical data elements - including the child abduction (CA) flag - have been entered into the National Crime Information Center (NCIC) system.

http://www.dps.mo.gov/Home/AMBERABDUCTION%20FORMaug06.pdf


Where I live, they never issue Amber Alerts without a very good description of the abductor.

Brandi thank-you beautiful picture, Elizabeth was a very pretty little girl  ::MonkeyAngel::  I don't like the protecting of the minor, but it is the law, unfortunately or fortunately I guess on how you look at it. I don't care if they protect her, I just want this girl to be punished the proper way, and that would be to be tried as an adult. I guess we will have to wait and see, but I'm not going to hold my breath on that one. Whatever they do, I pray she doesn't see the light of day again, and I'm not going to hold my breath on that either.

MOO, just reading the posts from her "friends" or whatever about killing animals and wanting to know what is like to kill..etc.

Could it be persons posting this stuff are trying to make her seem crazy so that she will be kept as a juvenile instead of an adult?  I would hope the judge and/or LE would keep track of who is posting these things just in case it is family members and such. Just another "d" question from JSM..

BTL  ::MonkeyBike::

Also, God Bless Elizabeth  ::MonkeyAngel::

She probably has computer privileges where she is.  ::MonkeyNoNo:: (sarcasm)

That's the problem, you don't know what is true or rumor, and whether someone wants her to look even worse, or better  ::MonkeyConfused::

Good night.  ::MonkeyAngel::

Except in the case of her youtube channel, she last logged in a year ago, so I'm sure the words about her hobbies were her words:

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub7/AlyssaYoutube.jpg)

That thought crossed my mind as well.  Wonder what she is dressing up as for halloween tomorrow?    ::MonkeyConfused::  Sure they must celebrate in the juvi joint?

Exactly No Rose, I don't know what to believe from the comments from other sites.  ::MonkeyConfused::

Good night fanny   ::MonkeyAngel::

I am not so sure it is the law.  I think it is just LE's preferrence.  If it was law then why have an open proceeding to decide if she can be tried as an adult?  That hasn't even been decided yet and it opens up to the media her name, age, and some aspects of the crime as well as personal info on her psychiatric eval, etc.  A risky move if it was against the law to have her info/name out there.  Which also makes me think maybe the Judge doesn't like all this sweeping under the rug either.

Very possible. I have a friend of a friend that calls the jail where the friend is and when she calls the jailer yells out her name and she comes straight to the phone. So, as manipulative as the girl I saw in the electric fence video is, I wouldn't put it passed her getting some kind of computer privilege. JMO JSM

Reporting the Elizabeth Olten Story

Ugly news presents difficult news choices.

The recent arrest of a suspect in the murder of a nine-year-old Cole County girl raised some questions about how journalists cover stories involving juvenile suspects.

The juvenile court asked stations not to report the name and gender of the suspect until after the case's certification hearing. KOMU only reported the suspect's age, while some stations did not comply with the court's request at all.

Charles Davis is Executive Director of the National Freedom of Information Coalition. He said KOMU and several other news outlets in the Columbia area have shown great ethical restraint.

"As a newsgathering institution, you have to figure out what you're going to disclose, [and] how much you should to disclose," Davis said.

KOMU's decision not to cover the girl's gender also dismayed some viewers. One viewer named Linda was particularly upset.

"I am shocked over the last line of your article 'Olten's Funeral is Wednesday, but KOMU 8 will not cover it as to let the funeral remain private'. The family has stated that both the viewing as well as funeral are open to the public. Why would the network not be covering it when the family has made the decision to have it open the public? I am also shocked that none of the press conferences that were held by Sheriff White or anyone else for that matter has been covered live when KOMU has streaming capabilities on the web. It is pretty disheartening to be watching traffic and a church on your live cams when the death of a child is why many of us who are following it are visiting your site. Will this be changing now that the national media has picked up this story?"

Tuesday, the family's funeral director, Houser Millard, released a statement asking the media to refrain from attending both the visitation and the funeral in order to respect the family's privacy. However, the funeral home did accommodate the media with a staging ground at the girl's graveside service.

Nevertheless, KOMU News Director Stacey Woelfel said he felt the accommodations were not an invitation to the media to attend.


"The funeral home and the family expected the disruption and wanted to keep it to a minimum, so they set up the place for the media to go," Woelfel said. "But in the big picture I think these are private affairs and for the media to show up often acting not in the style that you should at a funeral is really upsetting for family and friends and there's really nothing to shoot there and it's better to just report on that without going."

If you want to comment on the coverage of the Elizabeth Olten suspect or anything else, you can click on the Your View tab. You can also call us on the Your View commentline at (573) 884-NEWS.

http://www.komu.com/satellite/SatelliteRender/KOMU.com/ba8a4513-c0a8-2f11-0063-9bd94c70b769/a7762d71-80ce-0971-016a-3cfdf43db89b

Shelby

Here in Virginia to issuse an Amber Alert they have to have a discription of the vehicle involved.  I know a lot of states are trying to get the rules changed, but until they do, it is what it is.

Thanks Klaas, I didn't realize it was a year ago her hobbies were posted.  ::MonkeyNoNo:: I hope she rots in H*ll for what she did to Elizabeth. Arrrggghhh I hate it when I try to give people the benefit of the doubt.  ::MonkeyWaa::

Does anyone else think it strange AB's "best friend" posted in Dec 08 a blog titled "Elizabeth 2000-...." This is really bugging me..

 Does anyone know if it is possible to change the date on a blog on MYspace, maybe it is some sick kid messing around.

I am guessing they have received many emails about their coverage.  Here is the new Your View tab referred to in the last article:

Your View 
 
Do you ever wonder how KOMU decides what stories to cover? Do you have questions about the technology KOMU uses to bring programming to you home? Do you have an opinion on local news you want to share? KOMU wants to give you a chance to ask questions, give insights and share your view with Mid-Missouri.

Just fill out the form below, or send an e-mail to the Your View team at yourview@komu.com. Coming soon to Sunday nights on KOMU News at Ten, Sarah Hill will answer your questions and share your view.
 
http://www.komu.com/satellite/SatelliteRender/KOMU.com/ba81e83a-c0a8-2f11-0022-b6f7d4035981/d6888618-c0a8-2f11-0185-703473028f3e

I am back. I was cruising over what we were talking about last night, and I found this very interesting.

http://www.topix.com/forum/city/jefferson-city-mo/TFSQHR7T6M9A3GI3E

OMG   ::MonkeyMad::

I see TOMSMITH99 in the rafters. Do you have anything else? I will research it and bring it here. There has got to be a reason this crap is going on.

There have been some pretty disturbing stories I have run across in the local papers so nothing surprises me.  There is an article today about a set of parents that are facing an additional charge in Kansas City .  Man fathered 3 children with his daughter and facing 2nd degree murder in the death of one of the infants. Teo infants were found in coolers on a property where they once lived.

Now that KOMU has posted about their coverage of the case, think we will find out COD or results from the autopsy or toxicology before Nov 18th?

  ::MonkeyEek:: The funeral home man Fanny? I am so  ::MonkeyConfused:: TIA JSM

Pretty white carriage and pretty white horse doesn't look so pretty anymore, does it?

KRCG who has the Connectmissouri.com site on it and has hardly had much coverage is owed by this group. Included are the e-mails and addys for the owners

http://www.barringtontv.com/


http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/

No Ma'am it doesn't.

Good Evening Monkeys and guest!

I am so confused. This man was accused of something and the charges dropped...what does that have to do with the white carriage and horses?

KOMU TV in Jefferson city, MO

http://www.komu.com//satellite/SatelliteRender/KOMU.com/61f5f746-80ce-0971-019d-8500acdc7d96

Owned by the University of Missouri

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KOMU-TV

Go back and read last night's post. Then you will understand.

District Attorney, Cole County Missouri

http://www.colecopa.com/

I did read last nights post...I just don't understand what this has to do with Elizabeth.

Yes, it bugs me. It actually creeped me out so bad that my stomach kinda did a roll. Especially the part about Mood-drained. I am really hoping that it just some sick prank and not have been there BEFORE she was killed. That would be even more heinous if THAT'S even possible than what's already been going on.

What a quaint little town they have there.... and people said Satsuma reminded them of what? I think we are beginning to see some of the secrets that town is hiding. Sick Sick Sick.

what MS was this on please?

 :smt006 Good Evening Monkeys,

Wow I finally was able to catch up and read all the posts. This case is just " off the Brain" ..This poor little girl Elizabeth at the demise of a twisted teenage girl .... makes my heart hurt and my brain snap. And I am sure that the teens in the local area "tonight" on devils night are tripping out. All the rumors and all the connections of this girl to who and whom.
I was trying to dig off her usernames ( AB) and I don't know if anyone came across this. I am not 100 percent sure, this maybe her or not.. But the similarities in info and mindset lead to the same personality. I wish I knew the meaning of the name Okamikage. Says on the profile that it is of a 15 yr old boy. The poetry written under the user name seems to be a girl... Is their a name Branden linked to AB?  kids today say they are 27 living in Hawaii and yet are 12 in Dallas ...so I just thought I would throw this out..there. 
http://allpoetry.com/okamikage
Profile:
snipped
my names wolf (not realy but thats what my account name means)
my favorite bands are AFI, mychemical romance, and santana.
my free time is spent drawing, writing in my book, skateboarding and spending time with my dad.
my lifes goal is to become a famous author, or a vet.
im a full blood hunter, no matter what my sister says.
my signature is crazy enough to kill smart enough to get away with it.
*** And if this is no link to her what the H#ll is wrong with kids today? why are they so obsessed with Death and Killing.
--------
This video from one of her friends on YT which I think they are from the same town. Saia56.
Has a comment under the video from AB. About killing Jenny who I think is the Jenny on the karaoke site. Singsnap

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjmzFAzZAgQ
Singsnap: http://www.singsnap.com/snap/watchAndListen/play/b812b963c
the comment by J under her song, her photo and is a member of singsnap .. I think is the J who Saia56 is talking about killing. Who is Applegirl - Applegirl is J.
One other YT account under AB: http://www.youtube.com/user/omgxthesexshoesxrule
Where Saia and Apple are listed as friends.   
** I looked at AB's photo on singsnap for over 5 mins as I attempted to listen to her music, which I could not. But for the love of God ... when went to click off the site, it hit me for the first time her Eyes were open. The entire time I was looking at her photo, I thought her eyes were shut and she had a ton of eye makeup on.  Freaked me out. Was if she opened her eyes and they looked right through me.
So disturbing all of it.


 

 

Looks like Cole County doesn't want much know about them.


http://www.colecounty.org/

It goes to the facts of a long time covering up of things going on in Jefferson City. This man was spokesman for the meda to cover the funeral and it was his white carriage that Elizabeth was taken to her grave in. That's all.

http://www.myspace.com/totallyavalleygirl

I don't know. I just read what Txsflame had said they found so I quoted it at the top so you can see the exact wording. But it did give me the creeps.

DEENIE, I am so glad to see you. I thought you had left us! ::MonkeyGavel::

I couldn't open the last YouTube. I think that's our girl and her friends. Where In God's name were her caretakers??? Most of the stuff we are finding is in 2007. No tell how bad it had gotten by 2009!

FWIW I just tried to make a blog post on myspace, and you can change the date after you post a comment.

For the sake of saying. I totally believe that a 15 yr old is capable of  premeditated murder on some younger than them. Because it happened in my neighborhood. Was Halloween weekend 1981.

Ronnie Moore was 15, I went to school with him since 4th grade. He brutally raped, murdered a 12 yr girl who lived down the road from his house. It was on Devil's night Friday Night Oct 30, 1981. First off he knew her and she knew him. He knew her Mother and her habits, both work and at home. She was a divorced single mom and had a tendency to use sleeping pills and or alcohol to put herself to bed. ( she was not a bad person, not my intent, just what was). The point is he knew it. Was after Midnight, He cut all the electricity from the outside and cut all phone lines ..and he got in the house. And Mom was passed out cold and didnt hear a thing. He brutally beat, raped and then killed this girl and left her in the back yard naked. And he went home. Reminding You all he was 15. I know I have posted this before. And Yes he was a child from a broken home, a home of drug addicted criminal parents that should not have been able to be in society.

They canceled Halloween in all the remote neighborhoods. The LE had no clue what to think. Monday he went to school as any other day - yet he had a tremendous amount of claws marks and scratches from his forehead past his shirt line...... and LE was notified. He had quite a record in school so he was easy to see by anyone. He was a bully to many, he was always nice to me.. I had no idea why, but I am thankful.  He was arrested I believe by Tuesday because he buried the clothes he wore in his own backyard.

This is him today: LIFE in Prison No Parole Murder 1st Degree. We do not have the Death Penalty in Michigan.
http://www.state.mi.us/mdoc/asp/otis2profile.asp?mdocNumber=170722

Anything is possible and most probable when the 15 yr old has nothing to lose.

I'm sure there is lots more SEARCHING. I'm digging as hard as I can. TOMSMITH99, can you give me a hand here?

Thank you Maven  ::MonkeyAngel::

The point I was trying to get across is that what this man was accused of had nothing to do with the looks of the carriage and horses. I have to respect LE and the news media for not covering the funeral. I personally would not want a camera in my face if I was mourning the loss of a loved one. A funeral is personal and not something that should be splattered across a tv screen and especially that of a small child. That is my opinion. I understand LE not discussing the particulars of Elizabeth's murder. One wrong move or slip of the tongue could jeopardize the entire case especially where a juvenile is concerned. I feel sure this is not something that can be swept under the rug no matter how hard they try. All just my opinion.

Darla, last night we were discussing that Jefferson City has a history of covering things up, things that are just flat out wrong. The press and local officials don't want bad things to happen in their little city. I am sick and tired of it, and pointed out some examples: The person that owns the funeral home, and provided for Elizabeth's service, was arrested for a sex act on a teen boy a few years ago. He was arrested, but within a few weeks was free and clear. People in town hate it when someone talks bad about him, basically telling the truth. To me this is just wrong, he throws money around town, helping the local churches, high school sports, etc. etc. I would just hate for Elizabeth's family to get treated like all the other victoms of these crimes, they deserve more than that.

Was it a big hoo-ha back then that he was a juvenile, or did everyone know right away? I'm assuming he was charged as an adult.

I know where GB worked as an IT consultant in Jefferson City. There would be NO connection with JME statements, nor having the ability or access to delete case net or other related files. I would guess their (or AB's) attorney might be behind that.

So glad to see you TOM. Please tell me, who OWNS the town. You know, who's got the leverage. Please tell me it isn't this man.  ::MonkeyNoNo::

The friends are talking tonight.  From a myspace

30 Oct 2009 13:39

Well if she is clinically depressed then it isn't her fault. It's her brains. But some people don't believe that there really could be things wrong with your brain to make you do things like that.

Gabe? idk ha

I know that JME's husband has something to do with the State Legislation. Would this be close?

Generally GB is out of town, doing IT consulting work, I am not close enough to know if he was going last week when all of started, Weds evening. I would guess that he normally flys out of KC or STL airports, about 3 hour drives. Or Columbia airport which is about a 40 minute drive. He never discussed having a plane.

Hi Ms Fanny, I am still around. I think it took Elizabeth to drag me out from me being missing.
And Ms Northern too.

I will try to embed the video here. The reason why I think this vid is important because it shows the Mentality of these girls. There are no photos of anyone on the vid - it is all just words and animation.  Their mentality is sick.
When oh when will our children on the internet learn how to spell !! ( just a side note) grr

http://www.youtube.com/v/pjmzFAzZAgQ&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0

Elizabeth wasn't born in 2000, her birthdate is December 15, 1999

Deenie   ::MonkeyAngel::    ::MonkeySkate::     ::MonkeyGavel::    ::MonkeyBike::

I keep getting an"error, try later" on it.

Yes that is the same fence. The video was taken to the left, more near the horse barn and buff brick home, on the pool side. My guess would be their new house is about 2 years old, probably being built around the time of the video. The vehicle is parked on the new house drive way. The same driveway Elizabeth would probably take walking home.

::MonkeyKiss::

WOW  Thanks!

Ok, I got that one. It was the last one you posted I couldn't get.

I live on the road where all of this happened about a mile away and I've lived in the same spot since I was born.  I was just going to give a few facts..
1. Elizabeth's house is the first house to the north of Hwy 50.  They've lived there a couple years.
2.  AB's grandparents own the older house you see in the youtube videos.  They've been there 4 or 5 years and within the last year built the new big yellow house you've seen on NG.  It is 2/10 mile from Elizabeth's drive to the drive of the new house. I drive by everyday and measured.
3. GM was using the old house for a daycare.  I don't know how long it has been closed, but the sign has been gone for a few months.
4.  I have seen lights on at the new house this week. just a couple days though
5. this is a nice area, very rural and quiet

AB looks just like all the other girls her age, I never would have imaged.  My nephew says AB is nice (he rides the bus with her).
On the youtube video with the electric fence, all of us country folks around here have done this same thing and always thought it was crazy funny.  So I don't see anything weird with her video.  Seems like she was getting along with her brothers and doing what all the other kids around here do.
I really wish that she didn't look and act so much like other teens, i want her to be someone I can pick out.this whole thing has a lot of people scared because of the fact that shes "normal"and "nice".                                                                                     

I do want to say about the funeral director that tomsmith wanted to bring up. the case was dropped, facts came to light that the teen in the case bragged to others that he made it up to get money.  I know this man personally and would trust him with my life and my children and i don't say that about more than a handful of people.  He is an caring member of the community.  I won't say it for sure about Elizabeth, but I know that he does things for people in bad situations (financially)to give them things like the horse drawn carrage for no cost, same with other expenses. 
I just wanted to say there are 2 sides to every story.

 ::cartwheel::  WELCOME lurker74   ::cartwheel::

Welcome, LURKER74. Glad to hear from some locals.

What do you think happened?

Alot of old money and businesses, it is the home of Missouri state govenment, and the home of our Governor, so maybe by it's history, we don't want bad things to happen here, I don't know for sure. Reid Millard (funeral home owner) rolled into town about 15 years ago, left Texas because of some of the same problems, bought some of the local funeral homes. He eventually bought the local florist, a farm for partys and events west of town, and a few other businesses, and a dirt track race car. Over time he has sold most the other businesses and stays focused on funeral homes. He donates time and money to special need kids, high profile funerals, local church events, etc. etc. He throws alot of money around town, but does not really have much pull after some of his secrets got leaked out. So I would say he does not OWN this town, although alot of people would probably disagree with me. When I see him around town, shaking hands at social events, and stalking our youth, it just makes me sick.

there are so many crazy rumors floating around, esp at the high school.  I know that within an hour after the body was discovered I was told it who it was that was suspected and how it was done.  I don't know if it is true the how, because it is not the same as the vast majority of "rumors" floating.  I do think she kept a written diary. I suspect she went in the woods with AB, remember her siblings are older than AB, so she would feel comfortable around teens, young adults.
I was told her brothers were VERY upset and concerned about finding Elizabeth,the day after Elizabeth disappeared, and AB was "quite". I think the brothers were friends of AB.

I have only ever seen AB and the twins get on and off the bus, never a younger girl at that stop, so I don't know about the half sister.

Welcome lurker74, I hope we can agree to disagree with my thoughts on RM. There are probably more than two sides to every story. I know the parents of the teen in the RM case, crew up with his mother PD. I spend many hours talking to her when this broke, yes there was money involved, but they swear it happened. I personally would not trust the man to even put me in the ground. But hey that is just my opinion, and looking over at that Topix board, many others. Again Welcome.

When my Daughter was in high school and it was even in her middle school. At lunch time the kids had two choices - Which line to get into. And that choice was not made by them. Was made by the school/parents and or student. The two lines were " Lunch" or " Meds".
Meaning that there just as many children in the lunch line as there were to get their Meds.
Where it be Ritalin or some sort of antidepressant  ::MonkeyNoNo:: .

Now my daughter is out of high school and I remember she got in trouble at school for giving her friend a midol. And she was in trouble for carrying the midol in her purse as well.

I think of all the kids that are addicted to prescription pills and or sell them, and or have been forced to take them for years ... and years. I am not talking about kids who have to take scripts to keep their health maintained. I am talking about the kids who are put on drugs because their parents see it as an easy way out to " keep them in control". 
My daughter had some friends from extremely wealthy families and the parents were just as doped up and on candy scripts so they could maintain Life not their health.
I find it an injustice that Doc's write scripts because some people force their hand and say " Don't you know who I am" or say I will get it from someone else ..yadda.

And what comes of it is the people who really need help and or meds. They are looked at or treated as if something must be terribly wrong with you - that your taking those pills.
We thought we were a Pill popping nation in the 60's 70' for recreational use - not even close these days. Its a script abusing nation and it is unfortunate scripts have now become recreational.
"IF" AB needs help and needs mental health care and or meds its going to be a hard road for her due to her families issues. She may already be taking them and mixing them and turning her brain inside out.. I don't think anyone would know. AB is a bit I believe like Casey Anthony ..prob ran the dog and pony show at home. Until we know all the facts then It will be unknown of AB. 
Just a broad statement
Jmo I think that some people are born mean and evil and fine tune their personalities to draw the weak and or innocent to them, so they can abuse them. ( that it is not environmental)

I think "stalking our youth" is overkill.  like i said definately 2 sides to that story

Have you seen the MySpace and Twitter site Alyssa had, and also the things she had posted on the SnapSing site? Would you say this the norm for the teens her age? Did she dress emo, or is that popular there?

Did you know the boy involved?

I agree about the overmedicated part. That is why I think we need to know more about the background. And there is the evil equations, and yes, I believe that too. She was trying to get her younger brothers to do things to hurt themselves, the worse the better. And not just in the electric fence video either. I sensed something really mean in her interaction with them, but I think they admired her too and would have done anything to please her. JMO

"Old money," always the bane of where it is. The tenticles of "old money" run deep.  JMO

It was a very short lived in talk/attys " He is a Juvenile " because of the severity of the Murder and I left out .. He raped the Mother and there was the youngest child in the house as witness she hid under her bed. He was charged as an Adult Yes. 

Yes I've seen teh myspace and twitter, she has FB too, all you can see are her >100 friend list.I didn't see anything to out of this world- the killin/cutting comment now looks bad, but before 2 wks ago would I have thought anything more about it than a teen trying to be funny?  I don't know that I would havethen, now for sure!    And I only found the 2 songs on singsnap (creed and 3 doors down), very normal, popular songs from 2 yrs ago.   She didn't dress any different from my 13 yr old, jeans and hoodies, when I've seenshe had shoulder length brown hair.  last time i saw her was probably 4 wks ago. ( i hate getting behind the bus so i try to avoid it cause there's a bunch of stops through that stretch)
I have more family that live basicly across the street from AB, I haven't asked their opinion

The account at  allpoetry isn't hers.
 Okami is a Japanese video game (anime, naruto, manga, etc) and means 'wolf' i think, it's a character. 'kage' is the level of the ninja-if you are kage level you are most powerful. My daughter used to play these games all the time.

I had really intended to go to bed much earlier, but as soon as my head hit the pillow I bounce back up because I knew I would not rest. I am glad I came back, as I know there is so much more to what happened here, and why it is being covered up. All I know is to keep digging and keep shining the light where we can. This can't just go away, it just can't.

But I am going to bed this time. I am so glad that we have some local posters here, and really glad to see some other posters that are not normally here, especially DEENIE.  ::MonkeyKiss::

Good Night everybody. RIP Elizabeth Olten.  ::MonkeyAngel::

hey everyone!

Gabe....never saw a Gabe.  Did you see a Gabe, Northern?

I totally agree with you Fanny - that her little brothers (the video's show) believe she is the Coolest most Awesome Older Sister .. and they will and would do anything to please her.

I was able to meet two kids that were friend of friend. They were at best 13 (girl) younger brother 9.. I was 21 at the time. I was so put back by these kids behavior. I never met their parents. I did meet these two children 3 times. They were brought to My friends house by a neighbor who watched them from time to time. Not a neighbor of my friend. I did not know this woman or these kids from Adam. I did not know where they lived nothing.
I never in my life met two kids that were so outright ungodly with words, actions ... I felt when I was around them I was trapped in a bad B movie. I thought OMG were you kids raised in the gutter? By who? The nine year old had a mouth on him like no other. I don't think he could communicate without the F word. And the statements that ran between the brother and sister were just unbelievable. The 13yr old girl talking smut and saying words just unfathomed. Reminded me of the movie Natural Born Killers.  I thought HOW could anyone turn out two kids that are like this. ( these kids make AB and her brothers in video look like Nuns) I have no clue what happened to them. I did find out though that they came from a family that had good jobs and a great house.  What made them that way? That I will never know, never met the parents nor knew anything about them. But it is just so so disturbing that children can be so empty, blank and be so filled with ugly, hate, spew .. I don't understand. If you tried to talk to them - was a lost cause. At 13 and 9.
 ::MonkeyNoNo::

Good night Fanny sleep well and rest even better.  I may need to borrow your pumpkin butt to carve tomorrow .   ::MonkeyAngel::

I was so hoping someone would see that and know who Gabe is.  BF?

gotta be.

can you send me the myspace that you found this?  thanky.

It looked to me like they were having a conversation, and that the Gabe part may not have been related to the other part, I can only see on side of the comments because the other profile is private, but they were posted close together, like the two were having a conversation with each other. http://www.myspace.com/totallyavalleygirl

O/T........this is so horable, I just cant believe some people, scary.....

http://www.clevelandleader.com/node/11821

In going throught the group of kids that are connected on myspace I am seing that the reality has finally hit them.  That means they have not gone through the anger or are just starting to hit angry.  comments

....well visit her in jail tho..

One can only be sad for so long and can only bear the weight of the world until a kind hand holds it for you,

alyssa.....i miss you and you are in my prayers.....i wont lose hope Mood: yourethemonster

Honeybucket AKA The Slaughter House,

Pastures Of Genocyde, US

sent

comment

When humans become extinct may the world have peace.

TO SEARCHING... srry I havent figured out yet how to "quote" The "blog" I posted about "Elizabeth 2000-..." was on a MS for a girl nic /totallyavalleygirl who claims to be ABs best friend. It looks like the girl recently moved(maybe from Mo.) to washington. This girl also has a picture of AB as HER profile pic. If I am allowed and it is needed I can post a direct link to it, just let me know. It is deeply disturbing to me because
 1) it was apparently posted Dec 14, 2008 (the day before EOs 9th bday)
 2) it appears to me to be like date of birth followed by NO death date, (but like there could be one in the near future)
 3) The DOB(if that is indeed what it was) is a yr off, but I can see a teenage miss adding the year.
 4) If it is what it appears to say..AB and others were planning EOs death this for months!!

I for one wish we could figure out if anything happened between EO and AB around her birthdya last year??
Someone else on her posted, they did not believe in coincidences.. well I dont either and this "blog" was scary to me.

thanks Maven and Northern.

Looks like this one has added some new pics and descriptions/comments for the pics.

She seems to be making an effort to give the big middle finger to anyone looking.  Or, she's hoping the Today Show or 48 hours will call her.

God!  It just never ends, does it?

hey Txflame - I think you CAN link the blog.  The link to her myspace is just a couple of posts up - see Maven's post.

Re: the profile pic, that's not AB, though - that's the girl who owns that Myspace.  If you click on that profile pic, you will be able to pull up her photos.

I just wanted to add that I dont think the girl lives in Washington, the  mention of that is for the movie Twilight, when is based out of Frks Washington, alot of teenagers are using that as there city/state..

Lurker (( Hi ))

I am so sorry for the torment and loss within your community. I am as well saying prayers for Elizabeth and her family/friends.
I have to tell you that it really doesn't matter what is or what isn't as far as AB has shown to the outward world. What is truly important is what was ongoing in her interior world and her mind. (( which none of us could possibly know)) Anyone can portray themselves to the outside and be who ever they wish in order to fit in and or go with the flow.
I think the real issue is our children today have changed. They have become much more savvy, more industrious, due to all that they have to experience. Which is internet, cell phones, cameras, camcorders, texting ..all these things that they have basically profected.

What it is lacking is the Human Experience, Socialization Skills. They socialize in school somewhat. Then they either go home to a empty house or are carted off to every sport or dance, ballet etc...  And kids today do not realize that they need social interaction to develop. Some are way over socialized and have no room to breath or sleep due to they are inducted into every activity known to man after school ..or they are simply left with no parental guidance.  Kids needs structure and balance in their lives and it is very hard and difficult to offer these days from all parents. Where it be a single parental home or Mom & Dad  .. there is no easy fix nor answer.
I think our kids are suffering though. Across the board they are. They do not use social skills
that we were forced to use as kids which was all we had. Such as how to use a telephone and use proper manners. To write one a letter if you wanted them to know something private. None of that exists any longer. And the years of the I am special and There is no competition, No score to be in sports, As long as your team player everyone Wins - was the worst era of all education. I believe Ms Ab was of that generation. No one stood out. Was a blanket of OH You showed up - Your a Winner. Gag me.

Teens too they have not the brain development to be able to cognitively find reason and or consequence. Yet by the age of 15 you should know " Right from Wrong".
And I think that is the bottom line question of AB. Did she know Right from Wrong? Or did she and simply did not care. She seems to be a very troubled girl and there are many troubled girls out there. But they do not kill. I am not convicting her prior to knowing all. Too much unknown. If anything Girls -they abuse themselves first and foremost and do not move on to others. I don't know. All I know is this is a travesty that Elizabeth's Life meant Nothing to someone.  No words can express and I am sure you feel the same way. 

I feel for you and I am sure you feel numb because it is all too inconceivable.

omg!  that's 20 miles away from me!

HH - I think that if she does not live in Forks, she lives close to Forks.  If you check her Washington friends, labeled 2008-2009 friends in her pics, they all live in that area of Washington.

I googled the description under one of the pictures and they are song lyrics.  I have not done the others yet.

This gal with the Forks Wa Myspace - Her name shown as Charlie Rhodes.
The name Charlie Rhodes is a character from a Stephen King Novel - Salems Lot.
He is a vampire. I was totally booted by the way off of SM ""Until"" I closed her Myspace I was able to come back here. I don't know if she has a virus or what.
I noticed in the top of her blog a tiny script of acid green words " Cyanide Sun". Which is a Band. Which is a goth Emo band. They sing about Death.
I found this photo that someone wrote the lyrics out of one of their songs. It's creepy.

(http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k14/boxah104/doomedcyanidesunsm-1.png)

Very Creepy.

I did see the pics on valley girls photos, the pics that I saw that were labeled her look like she was more reddish hair with freckls.. That is why I though she had the pic of AB(oops I almost typed her name). The reason I think she moved is because there is a photo album labeled "moved away"..and MANY of her friends on ms are also from Wa.(but not all are from Forks, several are from Lacey and other towns) In the album "moved away" are where she has pics of AB.. in going back I do agree it isnt AB in the profile pic as I originally thought.

http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendId=211959030&blogId=456181006

Hopefully if the link I posted worked, it will take all directly to the blog that has me deeply disturbed(if u couldnt tell)


 O/T Can anyone explain how to quote others in post?

Makes one wonder if Elizabeth was a human sacrifice - for part of the world these girls live within. Cult like. It's maddening.

Hit the quote button top righthand side of the comment you wish to quote.  Yes there is a picture of AB with caption:

Alyssa at the high land fall afterparty.....she gave me a goddamn hickey!!! alyssa....wby?

second picture in there as well.  Someone is giving a peace sign and they have warts?? on their finger.  I can only see the top of her head though.

Texas just click on the " Quote Button" next to - The Poster and type under the word

Northern do you recall the girl who has a myspace that mentions Lindsey Baum- she is about 15 and claims to live in Forks and has a ton of photo's with her cleavage hanging out. She took the photos herself. She has two myspaces. One she says her Mom died ( not saying she didnt) and that she is black which she is not. And the other is all about her and has photos of her and Dad and friends.
But her photos are her in her bathroom taking pics of herself with her Boobs all to show.
Do you recall her? she looks just like this girl on this myspace with AB on it.

That's a typical way to communicate, for kids who haven't yet found their own words.  I remember writing out the entire lyrics to "The Times They Are A'Changing" and sending them to my mother...it took me forever, backing up the record to play it line by line...and writing down the words.  I wonder what she made of that!

Levi Page Explosive shows coming up: This weekend a panel discusses Elizabeth Olten & the Haleigh Cummings cases.

http://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=305494635275&id=109169690664

http://www.lyricstime.com/him-venus-doom-lyrics.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9NYXksSK-3w

Yes I do remember.  She does look similar but I do not think it is the same person.

Klaas do you have those pictures from http://www.myspace.com/totallyavalleygirl

Think I found one of the twins(AB bro) on MS last log in 10/21.. but it is private

Good Night all and God Bless.  Busy day tomorrow.  Deenie my friend I am so glad you are back   ::MonkeyAngel::

I have them both. Neither has been back on since 10/21

Yes, all the photos with AB anyway

How can a child of 15  use the location of I live in the Pastures of Genocyde ??? she cannot even spell it how can she understand the word. (( oh snap))
That's Confidential Information
# 15 / Female
# Pastures Of Genocyde, US
----------
Went and looked at all friends of Charlie Rhodes and came up with this Gal - sorry she created the name - :(
http://www.myspace.com/fuckinpurpleunicorns
Last login 10/28/09

Which this links to a video on AB's Youtube saved video - Charlie the Unicorn.

Comment: Oct 27/09 Charlie Unicorn alyssa.....i miss you and you are in my prayers.....i wont lose hope
Mood: yourethemonster


About me:
Oh when you’re down and you’re looking for some cheering up Then just head right on up to the candy mountain cave When you get inside you find yourself a cheery land Such a happy and joy filled and perky merry land They’ve got lollipops and gummidrops and candy things Oh so many things that will brighten up your day It’s impossible to wear a frown in candy town It’s the neck of lovely candy cave They’ve got jellybeans and coconut with little hats Candy rats, chocolate bats, it’s a wonderland of sweets Buy the candy train to town and hear the candy band Candy bells, it’s a treat, as they march across the land Cherry ribbon stream across the sky and to the ground Turn around, it astounds, it’s a dancing candy treat In the candy cave imagination runs so free So now give me n allie ur fukin kidneys!!!!!!!!

 ::MonkeyNoNo::

You brought me back Northern. Elizabeth her Justice will be found, I am sure of it.
Sleep Well Northern (( Hug))

Purpleunicorn Girl has on her myspace a phone number that is of Jefferson County MO - and she has it as a comment that she wrote herself.

I guess Parental Guidance is left up to the X rated theaters.
I know they do not ID kids anymore for R rated movies - because if they did they would lose out on Billions.   Sad

I have a question of who ever can answer-

I watched on NG and Elizabeth's Aunt was on and she said to NG that E was a very Girly Girl, shy but would fight with her brother, who loved to wear clothing of frills and such .. and that she was just that.
Then I read statements within the Newspapers that E was the opposite that she was a Total Tom Boy and it was not unheard of that she would Jump into a lake or get dirty and not care.
Does not make sense to me - If your a Girly Girl you are just that, If your Tomboy Your a Tomboy.
Its Conflicting

http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:jsjrJnSKGY0J:community.babycenter.com/post/a17243685/another_child_murdered...unbelievable_sadness+%22olten%22+patty&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us


Check out the post from munchkin33,there are 2...the second one has some info?? (explicit language in post warning though)

Txsflame I cannot see where I am to go. I have to ask you a few questions because I know you have been following along.
Was Elizabeth's older sister a friend of AB?
And WHO actually took LE to Elizabeth's Body was it AB ? or someone else. Because I heard one and have read another.

Thank U :)

From what I can tell (and it is only from reading all I could find..amd no where near Mo.) Yes it was AB. There are several news reports linked through out, where LE say " they got written evidence that lead them to POI, who then lead them to EO's body"..

I didnt understnad what u meant by "you cant see where your going".

I found this link and it is a gathered clutch of all News written of EO and Somer Thompson's case is entwined.

http://newsfeedresearcher.com/data/articles_n43/elizabeth-olten-home.html

the post of the link you offered with Munchkin - I see her baby blog and her post of EO.
I am confused

This is what was posted. I edited out the bad language adn where it named EOs mom, and bolded the part that really caught my attention.

jmunchkin33
Updated 2 hours ago
I'm over being sick to my stomach - a good puke was all I needed.   

Now I am so F*** MAD!!!!  I am so angry.   And so f***ing fed up!!   Children killing children.   What in the H** is going on?   Don't give me any more shit about video games and cartoons.   What chemical imbalance are we really dealing with here?   I am a liberal, agnostic, democrat who just might be torn apart for saying it...but damn it, if you do an adult crime, I don't give a shit how young you are....you get charged as an adult.   

I'm sick to death of how many protections criminals of every age and every group has.   Bullshit!!!   Protect us!   Protect OUR BABIES from these low-life predators of every age.   I don't even know what to say to P___ O__.   What could I possibly say that would help her now?   Nothing.   I'm sorry, P___.   I really am.   My heart is breaking for you and your family.   I wish I could put my hands on the throats of these two JUVENILES who took your baby away from you.   But even if I did, Elizabeth will still be gone and that sucks.   That is UNACCEPTABLE!!!!

Thanks for letting me vent - again.   I promise you, I'm not done.

The link leads to a cached version of the page, if you look at the top where you see this is Google's cache of blah blah blah, well if you click the link it brings you to the page. http://community.babycenter.com/post/a17243685/another_child_murdered...unbelievable_sadness

I believe the comment that Txsflame was talking about was the part about two juveniles, in the second ranting post by that user:
snip~

BLOCKED WEBSITE

Thank You Maven, & Tflame .. I got it and read it ..saw it. Wow that is something.

You know there is such a thing of composure, I have to say though that something struck a nerve in Munchkin that made her blast off like that more than likely (All our lost Kids lately and being PG) ....... She wrote though from her heart and the " TWO" rings out .. what she has typed. Two Juveniles. hmm. Interesting.

 I am not sure where the vid was taken. I THINK a local guy told us earlier today he felt it WAS at the grandparents house. I cant seem to find the video of Elizabeths older sister, and cant see enough in the AB vid to make any comparsion(sic).

I thought the girl in the pool was AB..But like I said I cant see it very well, think eithermy poor eyes are crossing or puter is very tired... Yeah for some reason I cant view videos at that particular news site!?!?! I see where the vid should be, but it only shows me a white empty square

I have been a Monkey since the 3rd day Caylee was reported on National News Missing.
I have memory of many missing children in my lifetime prior to Caylee. I was a child that lived in a community that lost many children that made National headlines and I was of the same age of the missing. And lived relatively close to those children. Which I don't think I will ever get over. Was a fear branded into me that no one was to be trusted. The person was never caught to this day. Was the Case called " Oakland County Child Killer". Forever it will be unsolved. ( I believe). 
Then came others and then came in my memory was Adam Walsh. Who I remember to this day I was about 16 and his face was plastered on the cover of my home town paper - not Have you seen me? But I was found Murdered. I live in Metro Detroit not Florida.
Since I have become a Monkey so many have come up missing, found and not found alive. We have had our Glory of some who were found alive and unharmed. Which is always to be Remembered and Always to be profound. And then those who are still out there, no leads, no information and it breaks my heart. It breaks my heart even more so though for those who have been found deceased. Because once we find out the details yet not the complete truth (because the cases will be in litigation forever) We though know enough that this child suffered unmercifully, that who is named on paper was or is that person who ended this child's life. And it is exactly what it is- It is Beyond our Comprehension, Beyond our Minds, Beyond our hearts to understand, to grasp it.  It is the most deafening silence that lives in your head. When you think of these children, by face, by name who have been taken and removed from this planet we call our House.  I will never understand. Never. Its not within me. It's time for legislation to become united in the world - if an offense/Murder is against a child and your proven guilty without a reasonable doubt -  ( with all the technology and forensics avail today) You no matter what -You deserve Death Row - or Death Penalty. Either way you can sit for Ten yrs+ in Prison - Sit and Stir in a cell and find GOD as most believe they do ..  which is total BS and we all know it.
My Rant is over.
Justice for Elizabeth, Sandra, Jada and Ms Caylee.. and all the babies on SM and all who are still out there.

Hope I did this right...if not someone please correct me---I tried using help, but it didn't sink it bc I should be sleeping...hehe

Ok, this is my first post, but I have read ALL of this thread while waiting to e approved. I'm absolutely appalled by the horrific crime AB has committed. And to all of those(LE & Attny's) who are seeking a mental defense, all I have to say is OF COURSE SHE HAS MENTAL PROBLEMS, anyone who kills another human ESPECIALLY an INNOCENT CHILD so brutally has mental problems, but this is NO excuse and should NEVER be used as a defense for a lighter sentence. Ugh, it just disgusts me...I checked the MS of "Charlie Rhoades" (AB's bf) and noticed her mood shows: "hiding something :(" This girl needs to be watched closely bc she could be the next AB....

 
☼ Smooth Criminal luvz alyssa 4eva♫☼
Charlie Rhodes 
   In our darkest hour, in my deepest despair,wil u stil care? Will u b there? In my trials an tripulations, through our doubts and confessions,in my violence and my pain,through my joy an sorrow. . Ill never let u part cause ur always in my hdart

Female
17 years old
Foreverland a.k.a Forks, Washington
United States



Last Login: 10/29/2009
 
Mood: hiding something   
View My: Pics | Videos 
 
 
 
THIS GIRL KNOWS SOMETHING!!!!!!!!!! And the blog...VERY scary...I have younger relatives that are into the whole "emo" thing but they are also in church AND sunday school every week and are VERY involved in school and family activities...good kids. I think the fad is popular for most teens nowadays (Not the cutting/dark stuff) I meant the way they dress, and the "screamo" music. AB was CLEARLY not your typical "emo teen"...she obviously had very dark thoughts which unfortunately turned into actions and I truly believe that if she is not locked up for the rest of her life (I PRAY TO GOD SHE IS) she WILL kill again.

I am curious about the teacher's suicide...IF it had nothing to do with this horrible crime, does anyone (locals) know anything about him?? Money/Marriage problems? Did he leave a note? The timing is too coincidental IMO...

God Bless you little Elizabeth, you are forever in our hearts...Rest in Peace little Angel ::MonkeyAngel::

I will catch up on sunday--busy busy weekend ahead...stay safe

RE: Video
When watching the video AB  isounds if she is narrating .At the end of her video is scrolling credits identifying everyone in the video she has on listed as Julia her best friend the other as  her brothers with there names and one as her sister Emma.

Probably already posted...
We have a thread on that here at SM >>
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4647.0

http://www.komu.com/satellite/SatelliteRender/KOMU.com/ba8a4513-c0a8-2f11-0063-9bd94c70b769/a7762d71-80ce-0971-016a-3cfdf43db89b
    Reporting the Elizabeth Olten Story
Ugly news presents difficult news choices.

The recent arrest of a suspect in the murder of a nine-year-old Cole County girl raised some questions about how journalists cover stories involving juvenile suspects.

The juvenile court asked stations not to report the name and gender of the suspect until after the case's certification hearing. KOMU only reported the suspect's age, while some stations did not comply with the court's request at all.

Charles Davis is Executive Director of the National Freedom of Information Coalition. He said KOMU and several other news outlets in the Columbia area have shown great ethical restraint.

"As a newsgathering institution, you have to figure out what you're going to disclose, [and] how much you should to disclose," Davis said.

KOMU's decision not to cover the girl's gender also dismayed some viewers. One viewer named Linda was particularly upset.
"I am shocked over the last line of your article 'Olten's Funeral is Wednesday, but KOMU 8 will not cover it as to let the funeral remain private'. The family has stated that both the viewing as well as funeral are open to the public. Why would the network not be covering it when the family has made the decision to have it open the public? I am also shocked that none of the press conferences that were held by Sheriff White or anyone else for that matter has been covered live when KOMU has streaming capabilities on the web. It is pretty disheartening to be watching traffic and a church on your live cams when the death of a child is why many of us who are following it are visiting your site. Will this be changing now that the national media has picked up this story?"

Tuesday, the family's funeral director, Houser Millard, released a statement asking the media to refrain from attending both the visitation and the funeral in order to respect the family's privacy. However, the funeral home did accommodate the media with a staging ground at the girl's graveside service.

Nevertheless, KOMU News Director Stacey Woelfel said he felt the accommodations were not an invitation to the media to attend.

"The funeral home and the family expected the disruption and wanted to keep it to a minimum, so they set up the place for the media to go," Woelfel said. "But in the big picture I think these are private affairs and for the media to show up often acting not in the style that you should at a funeral is really upsetting for family and friends and there's really nothing to shoot there and it's better to just report on that without going."

If you want to comment on the coverage of the Elizabeth Olten suspect or anything else, you can click on the Your View tab. You can also call us on the Your View commentline at (573) 884-NEWS.

Posted by: John Henry

Published: Friday, October 30, 2009 at 4:59 PM
Last Updated: Friday, October 30, 2009 at 7:58 PM

That video was shot by AB, you can hear her voice making comments, and it was taken at the pool at the original house, buff brick, Grandparent's home. I know the fence and you can see the roof of their horse barn building above the fence. There are few houses around here, rural, that have in ground pools. The pool was purchased and installed by the previous home owner. I wounder if EO sister's name is Julia? There are a few people in that video (swimming) that are not really shown very well, I took it that one of those might be the half sister EO was visiting, or this might be before she came to live with them. Either way I am sure of the location.

I saw this on the IS board

10-31-2009, 12:20 AM 
HDG 
Registered User   Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 11 
 
Sorry I haven’t been able to keep up with the post in the last day, so I apologize if this has already been posted

From a reliable source I was told that AB had a list of people she wanted to kill. Elizabeth was her practice run. 



Wow. Practice run? There is also talk about  the two younger boys behaviour have the same warning signs and the GP's have dismissed it. Wonder what they're thinking now?

Wow is right, I guess some of this information will come out if she can be tried as an adult.

Yes watching the videos of the family you can tell boys and her were close. She tells them to do things, touch the fence, moon the camera, jump, etc. etc. Those kids have to be affected mentally living with her for 10+ years, no question about it.

I guess to some this seems normal, goth/evo look, dark eyeliner, lack of respect to anyone, out of control play, etc. to me that is part of the problem, that we as a society are willing to accept this as 'normal'.

WELCOME all new monkeys  ::MonkeyCool::  Appreciate the input of the locals. If I were looking at the videos and myspace and hearing how she dresses, I wouldn't think a thing of it. I know my youngest at that age would write and say things just for a reaction, I remember doing that as well as a teen. Obviously there were warning signs that the grandparents either saw and took seriously or just ignored them. I'm going with ignored, but I don't think they thought she was capable of what she did, imo. If she was so out of control and the grandparents did nothing, then they will have to live with their guilt and remorse till the day they die.

I think that a lot of kids nowadays are "throwaways". Meaning the parents just don't care, figuring someone else will take care of it. Parents are either abandoning their kids or becoming "buddies" with them. Kids will always push the limit, that's what they do but I believe they want and need those boundaries and if those boundaries aren't there, then they push even harder. My daughter lives for the Hot Topic clothes and all the Twilight stuff,  but her best friend is the exact opposite-more into the "preppy" look, very clean cut. My kid-straight A's, happy, loves people--her best friend-eating disorder and failing school.

I have to comment on this. My daughters are now adults, my older daughter, all her friends were clean cut and by all appearances well mannered. The youngest daughter was a whole different set of circumstances. I have had over the years kids here with my youngest daughter coming through my house with mohawks, safety pins on their clothes to the point that was the only thing holding the clothes together, one boy wore a pair of plaid pants that were so tight I have no idea how he put them on or took them off, so I just figured he lived in them 24/7. One kid looked just like Robert Smith from the Cure, torn fishnets, dyed black hair, black fingernails, etc....       My oldest daughter's one friend who I always liked, turns out she is now a meth addict and lives in her car, I will say that shocked me. So I don't put a lot of stock in clothes, music, lets shock the parents so bad type of thing, for most teens it is a phase, and I sure remember my phases as a teen, and I grew up alright and so did my youngest daugher and her friends. The suspect in my opinion is just plain evil, bad seed if you will.

I totally agree with you. LOL--if anyone saw what I looked like back in the 80's as a teenager they would be SHOCKED at what I look like now. I also don't put much stock in the clothing. I think if you really pay attention, kids will give you clues as to what's going on despite what they wear. I think every generation had their share of wierd clothing and werid music. The Beatles were even considered devil music at one point. I know it's hard-I have 3 teenagers and all 3 are as different as night and day. But if something is off with one of them, we definately get to the bottom of it right away. It's just sad that there are so many grandparents having to raise children, if it's hard for me at 40, I can only imagine how difficult it can be at 60 and up. God Bless'em cause I bet they weren't planning on having do it all over again. The GP's of AB, I don't understand their behaviour at all.

I don't understand the grandparents either, maybe they were so overwhelmed and thought this would all go away with the suspect's behavior, or maybe she didn't show a lot of signs, I just don't know, and yes, I can't imagine having to raise grandchildren after your kids are grown. I know I'm still worn out by it all, and I certainly wouldn't have the patience and strength to do it all over again.

Good Morning. (http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab6/fannymae66/punkinscaref.gif)


I have read back from last night after I went to bed. I am shocked at how some people think this is acceptable conduct for MySpace, FaceBook, and other entries, and is totally normal for this age group. The language alone is apalling, whether it is lyrics from a song, or a written poem by one of the teens. The free use of foul language and the preoccupation with blood, death, killing, cutting, life after death and such is shocking beyond belief to me. The out-of-control videos and the things that are said should have sent up flares, spotlights, and major concern if a parent had only looked.

From some of the comments here, I think maybe some parents did know, and saw nothing wrong with any of it. There has always been free expression of dress during the teen years, but it is up to the parents to say when it has gone way overboard. So I can only guess the parents didn't notice, didn't care, or was too laid back to set some rules.

We have heard over and over the Alyssa was such a sweet girl. But we have seen page after page of her dark thoughts and some pictures of her that were very dark. Some parents think that huge swing is ok too. There seems to have been no control over her as to who she associated with.

For me the fact there are parents who say it is ok, scares the living he77 out of me. To say, "oh, she went through a cutting phase, but she got over it", points out real denial and a disconnect.

Also, the poster that said last night it was all the boys fault about the assault on him, he was lying to get money needs to rethink her statement. Here at SM we are advocates for children, and if the charges were dropped against this man, I'm going to side with the boy until someone proves me wrong. TOMSMITH  said he had the same trouble in Texas, and I am digging for that  too. Fifteen years is a long time to look into this, but not impossible.

Thank you all for continuing the conversation last night when I was too tired to post anymore. But I will be back at it at least part of the day. Halloween is tonight, but for the past few years, we have hardly had a youngster come through our very nice neighborhood. I doubt if we have any again this year. Another thing that has been taken away from our children, because of the darkness of the people roaming our world. I wonder how many of these thrill killers and sex deviates started just the was we have seen on these pages. JMO 

aelliott 
Registered User   Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 8 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TunaMelt 
What do the grandparents do, job-wise? Does anyone know much about their daily lives, jobs, etc.

TIA

 

I don't know them well, but I do know that both of the grandparents are religious and that the grandmother has openly acknowledged her trouble with her daughter and that she prays for her. However, I also know they've withdrawn from the church scene since this incident and are keeping to themselves for the time being. The sad thing about all of this though, is that whether they could financially afford a counselor or not is a moot point as the church they belong to would have financed such care if they had felt it was necessary for anyone in their family. Everyone just dismissed her behavior and the behavior of her brothers (trust me the same warning signs are present there) as "kid stuff" and didn't think twice about it. The whole thing is terribly sad.
 
 From In Sessions

Weclome back Deenie...do NOT go away again!  WE all need you!!

Thanks Deenie! ::MonkeyKiss::

Good Morning Monkeys and Guest!

o/t...sorry....NRCG you have nanners please.

Hi all! Just wanted to add my "Welcome Back" to Deenie!  ::MonkeyDance::

First Post!  Welcome Jean75! We're glad you're here!

Fanny, I have to say that I agree with everything you said and it scares the he!! out of me too.  God gave children parents to guide them and teach them right from wrong.  I guess I shouldn't say anything more.

Welcome to our new Monks!  I have scanned the posts this morning and ill go back and read more carefully.....but the post from IS about the brother made the hair on my arms stand up!! ::MonkeyEek::

Sorry I forgot my manners, Welcome to all the new Monkeys! There have been so many in the last week, I can't keep up.

Good Morning thank-you  ::MonkeyCool::

Not to sidetrack this thread on Elizabeth, but related as we were talking about funeral home owner of our wonder little community here in Jefferson City. Read this and tell me if you would trust your children with this man.

Jefferson City funeral director Reid Millard was charged Tuesday afternoon with statutory sodomy, for having "deviate sexual intercourse" with a 16 year-old boy.

Millard, 46, was arrested, then released from the Cole County Jail on a $100,000 bond.

Prosecutors said the charges followed an Aug. 28 incident at Millard's Apple Creek Farm near Centertown.

The boy, who was not named in the charges, reported the incident to the Cole County Sheriff's Department that morning.

Sheriff Greg White immediately asked the Missouri Highway Patrol's Drug and Crime Control unit to investigate the boy's allegations, because Millard had supported a different candidate in last April's special Sheriff's election and because several deputies also work part-time for Millard's business.

Cole County Prosecutor Bill Tackett said Tuesday the charges were filed shortly after the patrol submitted a report on their ongoing investigation.

"For right now, we feel very confident in our charge," Tackett told reporters Tuesday afternoon. "Obviously, these are things that we don't take lightly.

"And we've analyzed this case like we would any other case, and we've charged it."

A probable cause statement by the Patrol's Sgt. D.A. Rice, released with the charges, said the victim had been working for Millard for about a month, "doing odd jobs and grocery shopping."

On Aug. 27, Millard bought "several hundred dollars worth of personal clothing" for the boy at the Columbia Mall, then took him to the auto races in Lebanon, investigators said.

When they returned to the Apple Creek Farm, the boy said, he went to bed fully clothed, in Millard's bed, but woke up the next morning with Millard rubbing the victim's body.

The victim then said Millard touched him in a sexual way.

The probable cause statement said DNA evidence found on some of Millard's clothing and bedding at the farm, during a search, supported the boy's story.

The statement said Millard acknowledged the trips to Columbia and Lebanon, but said he and the boy only watched cartoons together for about 30 minutes before Millard went to another room.

Tackett said Millard's contributions to Tackett's political races had "zero effect" on his decision to file the charge.

"If someone commits a crime, they've committed it," he explained. "I have, literally, hundreds of people who have helped me in some fashion or another.

"If you started ducking cases based on that, you'd have half of your cases gone. As long as there is no conflict of interest in my mind, or the appearance of that in the public's mind, there's not a problem."

The probable cause statement said some of the DNA evidence was "a sample from an unknown subject."

Tackett would not comment on that sentence, but noted the patrol's investigation is continuing.

He does not know whether that will lead to more charges.

posted jefferson city news tribune 2005

and then another from the Newspaper... He never denied buying the child things, taking him to the races, watching cartoons, etc.


Reid Millard's trial on a statutory sodomy charge will be held Dec. 12 in Jefferson City.

Three days were set aside for the jury trial during pre-trial discussions last week with Circuit Judge Robert L. Koffman of Sedalia, who will preside over the case.

Another pre-trial conference was set to be held in Koffman's chambers in Sedalia Nov. 14. Pending motions will be taken up then.

Cole County Prosecutor Bill Tackett said Saturday his office had urged Koffman to hold the trial in August.

But various scheduling conflicts pushed the trial date back to December.

“Judge Koffman made it extremely clear that there will be no continuances” from the December date, Tackett said.“He allowed the defense their request for time to retest evidence - specifically the DNA.”

Millard, 46, was charged last September following complaints from a 16-year-old boy that the Jefferson City businessman had improper sexual contact with the boy at Millard's Apple Creek Farm, near Centertown, on Aug. 28, 2005.

If convicted of the felony charge, Millard would have to be listed as a registered sex offender, and he could be sentenced to a term of up to seven years in prison.

At a 90-minute preliminary hearing before Senior Judge Byron Kinder on Dec. 14, the teenager - who has not been identified because he is a juvenile - testified he spent Aug. 28 with Millard, traveling to Columbia for clothes shopping and then to the auto races in Lebanon, before accepting an invitation to spend the night at the farm.

The teen said he was fully clothed when he fell asleep in Millard's bed, while Millard was in a hot tub.

But he said he woke up the next morning with Millard laying behind him, rubbing his lower back before reaching around to touch him in a sexual way.

Millard has not testified in court, but reportedly has acknowledged the trips to police, while also telling officials that he and the teen only watched cartoons together for about 30 minutes, before Millard went to another room.

Evidence entered in the preliminary hearing included a tape-recorded phone call between Millard and the teen, and DNA from a quilt and several articles of clothing.

Prosecutors charged Millard based on a Highway Patrol investigation that was made at Cole County Sheriff Greg White's request, following the teen's reporting the incident to the sheriff's office.

The state Supreme Court named Koffman, the presiding judge of the 18th Circuit in Pettis and Cooper counties, to preside over the Millard case in January.

The appointment followed the prosecutors' December request for a change of judge, after Millard's case was assigned to Cole County Circuit Judge Thomas J. Brown III.
POSTED IN JEFFERSON CITY NEWS TRIBUNE 2005/2006

I found another forum discussion about Reid Millard and his trial. Posters there gave quite a few insights to the workings of JC area.

http://www.topix.com/forum/city/jefferson-city-mo/TRFEELQKUG697VLHR

  Edit: Fix typo per Fanny Mae.  MB

For some reason I thought Sheriff White was fairly new on the job. Now I see that he was Sheriff all the way back to 2005. So the Elizabeth Olten case was not a case that he should be "over his head" with. JMO

Self Edit

http://www.millardfamilyracing.com/ReidMillard.html

Picture of Reid Millard.


Edit:  fix typo.  MB

When was Apple Creek Farm bought and sold? I am finding some interesting connections to some pretty prominent people. 

Evidentally, he still owns it.

http://www.applecreekfarmmo.com/birthdaybash/

Do any of us here know what the grandparents did or didn't do for their 15 year old grandchild? Maybe they saw stuff she was doing and did get help for her, maybe they spent many a restless night worrying about her and wondering and trying to do what was best for her? We have no idea. Maybe this girl didn't show any signs of being a killer, we don't know that either, maybe her grandparents are kind and loving and no matter what they did this girl was going to do this regardless. Sometimes even the best of parent or grandparent who have done everything right and loved their child ends up having a child who does horrific things. There isn't a parent or grandparent who hasn't made a mistake or two, or three..... I have no idea what went on in that house, except a few you-tubes, and a few statements made by the suspect, and some of the statements she really didn't make, they come from songs. She appears plain evil to me with what she did to Elizabeth.

My morning questions..Yes I did finally step away for awhile and get some sleep..but I also did get tr hough all the "major" discussions sites about this case.

 I have one question WHY does so many people keep saying the things on Twitter proved she was planning this. (I DO believe she was, but not from what she wrote on Twitter) It hasn't been said so much on this board, but on many others. So I am wondering is it just people talking to say something or did I miss something in the "tweets"? Yes they were "dark" and disturbing, and yes a cry for help that was ignored, but I didn't see anything that had I not known what she did, would I have thought anything other then a "dark" teen. Her friends MS is every so much MORE disturbing(in case anyone missed the fact it is truly bugging me...lol)

 What I think too many people do not get is MANY MANY teens use writing to get the "dark" side out. I have yet to meet a teen esp. girl that didn't have some emotional problems at some point. Sadly these usually start earlier in a girl then a boy also. I wonder how we as a society are going to figure out HOW to tell the difference. When we see or hear things such as AB wrote, how do we know if she is getting it out, or if she is truly a psycho, or is she is just wanting attention. I ask because I have a "artsy farsty"(my nickname for him) cousin, and in his teen years he was just horrible morbid, could draw things that broke your heart, but also made you say huhmmm, he talked dark, he acted dark.. NOW he is a father of two making a living with his art, and a good one. I admittedly did worry when he was younger. My daughter who is 18 and doing much better, was never "emo" or anything she was too girly girl, pinks and pastels were her colors.. BUT she was all into sad. scary depressing music and poetry. I did have to get her counseling ans she was also in a RTC for 2 weeks, I have mentioned she was a cutter, BUT my point on her IS the dark words she wrote were her therapy. She would get it on paper, and eventually burn it..(wow was it scary until she burned it) Then you have AB, apparently she could draw(as seen on totally's MS), she was dark, and she was pyscho. I just use these 3 examples, but I could write all day about kids and teens I know, that are dark and twisty!!?!?! HOW DO WE KNOW!!!

 One more subject..I am already sick and tired of AB's grandparents being called foster parents. I was raised by my grandma..and I thank GOD for it daily. Maybe the difference was I wasn't "taken" form my parents, I stayed with mema, and mom visited when her emotional state allowed it. BUT I do not believe GP's that raise their grandkids should be called foster parents. My dear mema wouldhave been fighting mad had anyone called her my foster mom, I was hers and that was it.  On this same subject though I do believe it is harder for our grandparents "generation" to see the dark and twisty in teens and know what to do. My poor sweet mema had her hands full with me and I wasn't even dark and twisty, I was a spoilt brat looking for attention. BUT I know she did not and could not handle my mothers emotional problems, and I have seen that a lot on the generations above my parents. That generation just can not fathom what young adults and kids can get into these days.

 And one other thing..OT what is "nanners"??? lol (I know I will probably slap myself when u tell me, I have pretty much figured out the other terminology on here, but not that one)

 TY guys and gals SOOO much for putting up with all my questions and concerns and rants. Honestly I do not know WHY this particular case grabbed me. I know I have always been intrested in true crimes, I come from a family of correctional officers, crimes and criminals are a way of life for me..(they tease I am a prison brat instead of military brat). The Caylee Anthony story made me sick, and then those in between..but this one grabbed me and wont let go!.

Nanners mean email. . Great post and I will get into it when I get back from the store.

Yeah I see these ads for 'his' events all the time, I would not be surprised that he does not purchase and plan them himself. It just makes me sick that our community still supports him, turns the other cheek per say. I don't play that game, I call them as I see them, and he is a child molester....

Alot of us in this community were let down when our PA announced the below. Nothing surpises me anymore, heck 'ol AB might get out in a few months with a slap on the wrist.

I cannot for the life of me understand where posters think that being "dark" is ok during the teen years. Sad music, melancholy, blue, dragging around, emo! Yes, teen years are tumultuous, and emotions fluctuate, both with boys and girls. I had two of both, and there were times they were moody and upset about something that happpened at school, or a snub, or just because. But it wasn't a way of life.

Yes, I am older, and my grandchildren are mostly grown now too. Kids go through things, but black, dark, bloody, and hopeless should be warning signs to anyone, at any stage of life. To say it is normal is just not normal. Who buys them these clothes, these uncontrolled computers, cell phones and video recorders? Yes I think a parent/ grandparent/ caretaker should be nosey, even if their child is 15. I say, even if they still live at home a parent needs to be vigilant. They need to know who their children's friends are and what they are doing.

I don't know what the grandparents did to help Allysa. All I know is I never saw a family picture or a reference to any family function. All I saw were kids behaving badly with no adult supervision. All I know is they wouldn't voluntarily co-operate with the police. That says volumes to me.

Txsflame great post, and you are so right with what you said. What I think too many people do not get is MANY MANY teens use writing to get the "dark" side out / exactly right. Many, many people do that, and don't go and kill anyone. And many, many people listen to depressing music, and don't kill anyone. And many, many people have dark humor, and don't kill anyone.

So is his last name MILLER or MILLARD??? So confused???

It's MILLARD.  Fanny Mae self-edited after her initial post, and to prevent any more confusion, I've edited to correct her typo.  MB

No he got the job in a special election in 2005 after our previous sheriff, George Brooks, killed himself. Read about our top stories that year. Our wonderful funeral director Reid Millard made # 2 that year also.  

BLOCKED WEBSITE
But it really is a nice place to live...

TXSFLAME, I don't know what to call the grandparents, because I don't know what the relationship to the kids were, to tell the truth. Alyssa said in one of her posts (twitter?) she was where she didn't want to be. I don't know if that was a "teen" thing, or because of the relationship with her grandparents. I have never heard if the kids called them gramma & grandpa, or mama, and dad, or what. It is a big black hole there what the relationship was. We can only speculate.

But I can see how calling them foster parents would bother you, because you had a very different relationship with you grandmother that what it appears to be here with Alyssa. I my eyes, the avoiding and evading makes things look worse every day.

This has left a big scar in the area they have lived for a few short years. It seems to me they would have at least issued a statement about the tragedy, if nothing else. I will flip over backwards if I find out they went to DisneyWorld or on a cruise. JMO

I've got so many windows opened already. Do you have a link to Sheriff Brooks suicide, or was it covered like Mr Currier's?

Millard. My fault. I keep writing Miller. If you open the link there is an article with his correct name. Sorry.

Fanny Mae self-edited after her initial error, and I've gone back and edited to prevent further confusion...(hopefully)  MB  ::MonkeyWink::

But this a killer does not make. If that were true I would be a killer. I listened to depressing music all the time as a teen, I had a dark sense of humor, I enjoyed horror movies. For all the kids that do all this we sure would have a lot more killers, some killers have come from religious homes, and vigilant parents. One cannot lump all these kids into one catagory, it doesn't fit. All these people that write horror books and horror movies, I doubt very much that their heads are filled with happiness and pleasant thoughts. A lot of creative people are dark and depressed and they use that to create.

Txsflame ~ IA with your post, I didn't see anything on her Twitter that would have stood out, if I had not known what she did, and even after, I still didn't see anything deeply disturbing there.

The myspace page you are talking about on the other hand ..... is very disturbing if it was indeed written on Dec 14, 2008, it's far more disturbing that anything AB had on her Twitter page. IMO

The youtube profile is disturbing, but if I did not know what she has done, I would think it was just an attempt to be funny, get attention, appear cool ..... whatever.

I haven't seen anything other than the youtube profile that would scream red flag! I have no idea what writings her GPs, friends or teachers have seen, there may have been some warning signs before now, but I have yet to see anything, that would scream that this girl needed help. The friends myspace page well, that's another story.

 Yes I was very lucky to have my mema.. In one of the twitter posts AB says "gramma is making eggs..yumm" So atleast we know what she called her. The GF was a step I believe, and again I am prejudice there, the most normal time of my life was the few years my mom was married to my (step) dad. Anywhoo.. OH also please do not think I have anything against foster parents, I think they are great people, I just believe it is a totally different dyanmic grandparents vs foster parents... But I can also see where u can be right Fanny Mae, AB had a screwed up relationhip(s)..

It was covered, but not really at the depth it needed to be. He took over at a time we had alot of dirty laundry in the county. Yes he was the 'new' sheriff, but he also was part of the problem serving under the old sheriff John Hehmeyer. I liked John and I think alot of towns struggle with their jails, jailers, imates, crime, etc. etc. Just to much for Mr. Brooks to cope with.

Report: Sheriff death was suicide
Thursday, February 10, 2005 | 12:00 a.m. CST
BY Associated Press

JEFFERSON CITY — A police investigation has confirmed that Cole County Sheriff George Brooks intentionally shot himself in the head with his service gun.

The Missouri State Highway Patrol released the conclusion Wednesday, about a month after Brooks’ Jan. 11 death inside the garage at his home. A special election is scheduled April 5 to choose Brooks’ replacement.

YEAH and ty for for making me feel not crazy on this issue!!! lol If I were LE in this case, I would be knocking on Totally's door and having a long convo with her parents!!

Do you think doing these things in your teens helped you to be a happier adult?

I agree norose, I was very 'dark' in my teen years, heck I am still fairly 'dark' and I'm 30, I got married 8 years ago today, yep .... a Halloween wedding, it was great, me and hubby were both vampires, we played Rob Zombie and other dark music at the wedding! LOL

We still get dressed up every year, except this year hubby is out of town werkin.  ::MonkeyJnBox::

It's who I am, that is a part of me. But I certainly have known a lot of very nice teens, that wore all black, skull shirts, saftey pins, tats and piercings, that were decent kids, and well mannered, who came to my house and there was never any trouble, and the ones my daughter kept in contact with have good lives and good jobs. Dress, and music preference, and movie and book preference really don't mean a thing to me. There are many well mannered, well kept individuals lurking around that a person needs to be afraid of. But teenage angst, I don't know anybody that didn't go through that. I will say again, the suspect, imo, is plain evil.

TOM, I know you are older too, but do you know what kids and teen do, or have for recreation in the area?  I think we saw that Allysa was on the fencing team, but are there any other youth activities there in the area?

Something happened last night I would like to share with you all. I was working at a school fundraising event and a young girl came up to the booth and she looked exactly like the photo images of Elizabeth, I mean the age, the height, the hair style and color. I literally had to take a step back and catch my breath.
What a shame Elizabeth was not out celebrating with her friends as this girl was. RIP Elizabeth

  New theory from my pea brain!!!!


Was just reading another site and they pointed out the fact that with EO's dads background, (specially considering he is suspect of making Jasmine disappear)and with his probable contacts still on outside.. This maybe a reason LE is keeping things hush hush. They may fear AB's family could be in danger. Thinking of DO's lifestyle, I can even imagine possible LE had AB's family go into hiding!?!?  If something were to happen to AB or her family, it would really hurt the case IMHO... Plus bring ever so much scrutany(sic) on LE in the area, which we already know they DO NOT WANT! I wonder if they have AB in protected custody, I am also sure Dale Jr has some unsavory contacts and with him only being 21, his  very probablyhas friends in juvie??

 And I maybe a lil dark and twisty myself(yes am a huge Greys fan) BUT if someone did this to one of my children I would want to do horrible things to them I would think!!! Maybe not, but I think I would. I tend to be very meek and mild..UNTIL someone hurts one of my kids, then the temper I inherited form my daddy comes blowing through.

I have to agree with no rose  ::MonkeyWitch1::

Yes, so nice that LE and teachers are just dying to get out. Sorry, but seems there are some dark clouds over that town or just really dark secrets that are going to the grave with some.

Thank-you   ::MonkeyCool::

Good Afternoon Monkeys and guest!

No Rose, I have to agree with you....not all kids that dress dark or into some of the dark things are bad kids. AB could have been dressed as a preppy kid and still done this horrific crime. It is not always a reflection on parenting skills either that make a kid do bad things either. I know a few people who were raised by the most loving ,Christian parents in the world who turn out to be the biggest hellions that ever were.

And as far as news coverage on suicides, I do not think that is necessary. That is a private matter in a family and should not be plastered in the newspaper and on tv. I do not think it is anyone else's business why someone commits suicide, other than family members.

Thank-you and I agree, we had very close family friends that lost a child to suicide, they didn't want it in the obituary, and only a few people were told about what happened.

Nothing is ever in our local papers about suicides. The only way you know about it is word of mouth.

And I think that is a good idea.

Wow it sure got quiet in here. Guess everyone is out for Halloween. God Bless the little ones who are not getting that chance this year. Poor babies.

Not sure about a fencing team, that might have happened in CA, I think she also was riding horses in CA and won some awards. As far as things to do, we are in the midwest, we get all four seasons, have local YMCA, 4H, Scouting, Ice Rink, Roller Rink, Skating Area, lots of Parks and Rec activities, football, coed softball, lots of state parks for hiking and biking. Tons of things to do about 5 miles from their home in Jefferson City. Based on what I see, AB was a skilled computer user, social networker, video editor, music listener, etc.

Honestly I have driven by their houses daily for 5 years, they are not outside much at all, unless they are going to school or getting dropped off, usually without any parent or adult figures in sight. Of course my observations are limited to a few seconds, may not be fair. My guess would be they went unsupervised alot as both parents were working, I know GB works out of town leaving Sunday eve and coming back on Fridays, assuming he is still doing the IT consulting thing.

Tom, I am not trying to pick on you or anything, but just driving by does not give an adequate idea of how much supervision the kids had. I know my grandchildren are not out much after school because they have loads of homework to do. Now in summer it is a different story. So far no information has been forthcoming on what went on in that home with the kids. Glad to have you as a local on the forum.

I think a lot of people are getting ready for Halloween, just got everything for the kids ready now, and it is an awful shame how many little ones can't enjoy this evening  ::MonkeyNoNo::

Ok guys, I agree that most people don't want suicides publicized, and I didn't mean that. But we have speculated here about Mr Currier's reason, and I thought it was unusual for a Sheriff to commit suicide. I asked if TOMSMITH had any idea of the reason, that is all. I was also under the mistaken notion that Sheriff White was fairly new in the office. He cleared that up too.

A lot of parents and grandparents or other caregivers are very often at the bus stop when the kids get off the bus. That is a very long and winding drive up to the big house. I might have expected someone would have met them, even in a vehicle, especially in bad weather. TOM said he has lived in the area for 50+ years and passes there frequently. He gave an honest opinion about how supervised they might have been.

O/T NORTHERN ROSE, you have nanners.   ::MonkeyJnBox::

Fanny I am not blasting anyone...I am entitled to my opinion just like everyone else on this forum. a 15 yr old and 2-11 or 12 yr olds are perfectly old enough to walk that short distance from the bus stop without grandma meeting them at the end of the drive. Just because she was not at the bus stop does not mean they were unsupervised is the point I am trying to get across.....Did he drive by every 5 minutes to see what was going on?

Also suicide rates are higher among police officers and medical personnel than anyone else.

You are absolutely right. You are entitled to your opinion and so is TOM, and likewise so am I.

I also Googled suicide rates and job occupation. There are several interesting links. Physicians are high on the list, so your conclusion is correct about "medical personnel." However, on all of the links I looked at, police officers are pretty low on the list. Prison guards, however, are pretty high.

I am not going to argue statistics with you, but i do know that police officers have a high rate of suicide in our area. In the grand scheme of life I  think one suicide is to many.

I can't say that one suicide is not too many. I very much agree with you. It was a blanket statement you made and it may be true for your area.  ::MonkeyCool::

Hello everyone.. ive been lurking here from the day Somer Thompson was found, i stumbled across the site when i googled something and Im happy I found this board. I am a stay at home mother of 4 ranging from 14 months to 17 yrs and i live in PA. Just wanted to introduce myself before giving any kind of opinions or speculations but i have been wanting to post for a couple days so im so happy that i got approval tonight!
Ok so i was thinking about the myspace of the friend of AB this one http://www.myspace.com/totallyavalleygirl   and when i see these comments and blogs etc it makes me feel as if maybe AB and this girl have talked about this before and possibly planned to do this together. The reason i feel this way is bc when i put the dates and the comments together it just could be possible.
1st this.. as if they had discussing elizabeth even though the date is wrong for her birth year they may not have realised she was born at the end of 1999
December 14, 2008 - Sunday
elizabeth 2000-. ....
Current mood:  drained 
then after this happened to elizabeth and AB was arrested she said
☼ Smooth Criminal luvz alyssa 4eva♫☼alyssa i love you...we were supposed to hang when this happened.....you are in my prayers
Mood:hiding something 
Posted at 1:52 AM Oct 27 from Mobile
To me this sounds like they were supposed to do this together when this happened. what else could she mean? i dont think it means they were supposed to hang out that day bc the girl isnt in the same area. I really think she meant they were supposed to hang when this happened. Also the mood being hiding something.. i really think she knows what the plans were and who knows what shes hiding. Of course i may be wrong but it seems to make sense to me.

I know i have read some of you mention the blog and also about the comment but i wasnt sure if the comment about them being together was read the same way as i was reading it so i figured i would put my 2 cents in.

thanks for this great board!

Hope it is not to big.. but Happy Halloween monkeys.

 happy2009  WELCOME 

Welcome HAPPY2009!!  ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyDance::

I hope LE is looking at this person as far as knowing what was going on. Not so sure they will though. Some of the friends MYSPACE'S are just down right creepy.

Happy Halloween Searching, and everyone, waiting for kids to come to the door and so far none  ::MonkeyShocked::  Thinking about all these kids tonight that should be out laughing in their costumes eating tons of candy   ::MonkeyNoNo::

 I have not seen any of the suspect's friends myspaces except for the one that happy2009 was just talking about.

Thanks for the welcome. We havent had many Trick or Treaters this year either but its raining.

It's beautiful here, just can't figure out where they are all at.  Have you seen any of the other friend's myspace pages? Just curious what is on them.

Never too big!!! Happy Halloween to you too. Have you had any trick or treaters? We've not had a single one. I hope they are having fun at parties and organized events. 

Since they are all juveniles, I guess it's not proper to bring any links to them over.  ::MonkeyNoNo::

I havent really seen any other friends myspaces only ones that were linked though this forum but they all seem to be private except this one http://www.myspace.com/fuckinpurpleunicorns which actually i dont even see AB in her friends list not sure if she removed her or if she is referring to someone else with the same 1st name in her comment??

oops sorry Fanny i didnt see that about the links until after i posted that.. i thought there were posted before though so thats why i thought it was ok.. sorry if it wasnt ok.

Welcome Happy!  Very interresting take on that and frighteningly possible ::MonkeyEek::

Fanny, I understand what you are saying but in THIS case we have a juvenile that has murdered a child.  Her juvenile friends (and her) have several social networking sites that are available for all to see.  IMO if they are old enough to plaster their feelings and photos and videos all over the internet certainly it's OK for us to post a link to their social networking sites.  The problem is does the suspect have FRIENDS that are on the verge of "just seeing what it's like" as well?   

have not had the first trick or treater here. What on earth will I do with all that candy?

IMO we need to stop making excuses for our teens.  They are becoming more and more resistant to authority because adults are afraid to say NO. 

 I see the Smooth Criminal girl's myspace says she lives in Forks, WA, but that seems to be a popular place to want to live, because of the Twilight series, so who knows maybe she lives close to the suspect  ::MonkeyConfused::

And not only teens, there seems to be a lot of excuses for all different ages, always seems to be an excuse for someone's horrible act.

Searching - we never have any, there just aren't any kids in my neighborhood.  That doesn't stop me from buying at least one bag of candy and setting it out even though I know it will all be left over.  Oh......who will ever eat all those Butterfingers?  ::MonkeyDevil2::

Klaas, I like happy2009, can we keep them huh, huh, can we huh?   ::MonkeyDevil::  ::MonkeyJnBox::

Welcome Happy2009. Great thought here and I was thinking they probably had the birth date wrong... That is a scary thought that they may have planned to do that together. Seems to me that they must have had a grudge against Elizabeth, I mean why else choose her and in advance at that. She must have made them mad somehow.... I just can't believe that it was planned and was carried out for no other reason then to do it. If what we have read on HOW she was killed is true, doesnt that seem like over kill? That is often a sign of a rage killing out of extreme anger.

 Plenty of candy left here also, unless we get a huge rush of kids, oh well, won't go to waste  ::MonkeyRoll::

 ::MonkeyLaugh:: I love butterfingers. hmm, I am sure that you can dispose of all those butterfingers somehow. Want some help?   ::MonkeyDevil::

Uh Klaas, if you have a problem getting someone to eat them.I Loveeeeeee Butterfingers or anything spelled C-A-N-D-Y. I didn't have any trick or treaters either.

I agree with you and also with Klaas. I think our children have gotten way to comfortable with feeling they can do as they please. I have to say, if the children are our future, we are in BIGGGGGG trouble.

Darla and Searching - I'm afraid that by the time I got around to sending you the Butterfingers there won't be any left  ::MonkeyHaHa::  I've learned after years of NO trick or treators to buy a candy I like  ::MonkeyDevil::

Wasn't there another friend of AB's that said on her post that her friend was a serial killer. I just have a sickening feeling this is one evil child,

There are so many sick in our area with the flu that they have asked parents not to take the kids out. People have gotten so mean it really is dangerous for the kids to be out.

Wow, never thought about that, could be why there are hardly any kids  ::MonkeyShocked::

Sigh....I guess you will just have to eat it. 

Good thing it is mostly the kinds I like.

About the trick or treaters, in my area, the parks and rec departments have events for the children, they dress up and go from booth to booth trick or treating and playing booth games. Some kids still go door to door but less and less every year. most are at the functions done by the city/ies. The area stores donate candy and small toys for the events.

So true. All I can say it is there for anyone who wants to dig for it. I would feel a lot more comfortable posting about the adults that were closest to Allysa. There is stuff out there about them too. So, I guess, if anyone wants to dig for it, it is there, that is, unless it is clean off the slate before we can post about it. There are a few screen shots, but for the most part, it has been erased.  ::MonkeyNoNo::

It has been posted before HAPPY 2009. You didn't do anything wrong. It was discussed last night, I think. IIRC

ok, in the spirit of halloween.. I have to post this link..kinda creepy..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oclya_UaGkY&feature=related

I saw that once before, and that is beyond creepy  ::MonkeyEek::

YIKES!!!!

Klaas, ITA.

When the parents aren't authority figures and there is nothing left but the children's teachers and the teachers/principals still have no way to punish the kids except for detention. Back in the day, I got detention, and an arse whooping when my mom found out why I was going to be late getting home.

Now days, kids can beat up their teachers, break chairs over them and the teachers have to take it and if the teacher throws the chair back on instinct, then the teacher is in big trouble.

 ::MonkeyBike:: Rant over.... BTL JSM

28 kids tonight which is a huge amount where we live.  Mind you it is a gorgeous night (38 degrees) and very little snow so no snow boots required or mitts and parkas.  Kids were out in force tonight and with the moon almost full it was great.  It was my turn to walk with the kids and their friends and it was such a nice night that we went further than ever before as I was thinking of all the children that should be out there enjoying this evening and are not. 

I knew I had heard the name before!

Okami Kage Hachi hide bio
 Feed .  Send Message.  Subscribe .  Favorite 
email : Email
since : 11-09-07, id: 1417258, Profile Updated: 08-03-09
country :  United States

Author has written 3 stories for Naruto.
Name: Okami Kage (That's what I wanted to be but the computer wouldn't let me change my pen name to it.)

http://www.fanfiction.net/u/1417258/Okami_Kage_Hachi


I bought my son a Naruto book last year and he has one season of Naruto on DVD.

 

Yeah! You are very lucky living where you do. You and HIGHER HOPES are the only ones that are saying you had many trixsters.

I am having a tremendous sugar rush!!  (http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab6/fannymae66/runcircles.gif) (http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab6/fannymae66/runcircles.gif) (http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab6/fannymae66/runcircles.gif)

But I am going to try to go to bed and go to sleep. (http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab6/fannymae66/smiley-sleepy-bedtime-good-night.gif)

Good Night Everybody.  ::MonkeyAngel::

LOL We didn't do trick-or-treating this year, we went to school instead and went trunk-or-treating, it was nice, but sadly no Butterfingers!

So this is one of her books?  I skimmed through some of the chapters and knowing what we know now pretty scary stuff  ::MonkeyEek::

http://www.fanfiction.net/s/4089350/6/Demon_Storm_Shinobi_Rain

From chapter 6

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub7/DemonChap6-1.jpg)

KLAAS, that is not the kind of midnight reading that is going to help settle me down.  (http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab6/fannymae66/monkeyguy-reading.gif) (http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab6/fannymae66/shocked-2.gif)

Night Fanny. God Bless.

I don't know which book I bought my son, I believe there are different authors.  Anime has some very dark stuff or some stuff that is very deep.  A lot of the cartoons from today are no more violent than He-Man and G.I. Joe were in the 80's.  The Naruto book I bought read backwards and was like a comic in book form.  I didn't read the whole thing but I sure did flip through, not that I followed it well, being backwards it was really confusing to figure out where I was supposed to read.

So for someone like me that used to watch Yogi Bear, Woody Woodpecker and Pokey and Gumby this stuff is pretty dark.

Good nite everyone.. thank you all for the warm welcome! I will back back tomorrow as i have been everyday since i found you guys lol only now i can post too  ::MonkeyCheer3::

Yes Northern, it is a lot darker than the happier days of cartoons.  Anime has a lot of psychological stuff in it.  I saw one movie called Akira, never got it, still haven't, and it has been explained to me and all.  That was definately a thinker to see and that was in the 90s.  There are some things that my kids do watch, like my boys watching Naruto, but I offest that by refusing to get cable so they cannot watch other stuff that is much more innappropriate.  Lots of anime has nudity in it too.  There just has to be a balance maintained and I know what they watch and talk to them about the stuff.   Also I stalk my own kids up at the school so I know what they are doing as well.  I see too many parents that don't care and just aren't involved.  They do what is easiest instead of what is right. 

e, I havent said a word about having trick or treaters, Ive been at work all day.....but I did see them walking down the road of my subdivision when I was coming home......so I guess there was some.....

Accidental Shooting Puts Child in Hospital
An accidental shooting between siblings in Cole County, puts one child in the hospital.

An 11-year-old from Cole County is at University Hospital after an accidental shooting.

We confirmed with the Cole County Sheriff, the child's 13-year-old sibling accidentally shot off a gun while they were playing.

It happened just before three Saturday afternoon in the 5200 Block of Veil of Tears.

We're told the 13-year-old was looking for a flashlight, came across the gun and thought it was a toy.

The 11-year-old was shot in the abdomen, we know the child was life-flighted to University Hospital and is in stable condition.
 
The parents were not home at the time.

http://www.kmiz.com/news/story.php?id=15358

I have a 23 y/o step son that is into anime. I have never liked it - it is very dark with lots of sexual overtones in my opinion. The fanfiction site is also rather offensive to me. I blocked it from my home network because it has lots of links to adult content that I did not want the kids into. My younger step son who is a RSO got into the anime and found it sexually stimulating as many of the young women are drawn in a provocative way - even in the anime supposedly for younger children.  On the anime books the older one has there were warnings similar to movies. I had never, nor have I since, seen a book with cartoons in it and found in the kids section of book stores to have an "over 16" rating on it. So I have a general rule for my kids that there is no anime allowed.

I am not saying EMO or anime had anything to do with why this girl killed a child. But I am saying it is a symptom of potential problems and could very well feed a sick soul and lead them into violence.

I agree Klaas - too many kids are being raised by kids (either in age or behavior) - I would never talk to my parents the way many kids do today. We, as a society, have given up our parenting to the state. Either the schools are supposed to teach kids or the rest of the kids do it for us.  I see everyday stories about kids that have done terrible things. I know that there have always been sick evil kids out there. But today it seems there are more. I am pretty sure that the increase is do, in part, to the lack of stable families. When I was a kid it was almost unheard of for a 16 y/o to have a baby and keep it. Now it is common place. My sister teaches as a middle school and has a 13 y.o that just delivered and is keeping a baby. WTF. Who is going to raise the kid? Add to that the guilt of many parents for working long hours (both parents) not for food/shelter but for extra things. Seems the parents have forgotten that things do not replace having a parent there when you need them. So sad.

naming a street "Veil of Tears" is like asking for trouble!!

on a serious note, parents need to lock up their guns, if they are going to have them in the home.  Absolutely just stupidity on their part, imo.

o/t -

Happy November, Everyone!

I'm feeling so good today - I finally found a job, at Kohl's.  Just in the nick of time!

 ::cartwheel:: ::cartwheel:: ::cartwheel::

True........also adding>
Parents are not allowed to discipline their kids in ways that work. Everything is considered 'abuse' now...and has been for a long time. Kids are allowed to 'express themselves' any way they choose, anytime they choose. There is no discipline anymore......period.

   ::MonkeyDance::  Good for you

 I never heard of Anime before. Sometimes while flipping through channels I've noticed a cartoon where the characters have really big eyes, I didn't stay too long on it, is that one of the cartoons?  I grew up with Yogi, Popeye and the Flinstones, don't much care about these newer cartoons.

Happy November Monkeys!

This is my first post, though I have lurked for a short time.

My DH told me a few days ago to make sure I watched NG, that the show would feature a 9yo girl murdered by a 15yo girl. Needless to say, I was appalled at what I learned.  I just can't wrap my mind around this, and ALL the violence that is occurring in our country by some very young people. I realize this isn't a new phenomenon, but seems as if it is happening with greater frequency maybe over the past 10 years or so. Between this and child abductions and murders, I am just in a state of shock.

Thanks for allowing me to vent.

Val

Valerie WELCOME  and another sad disturbing murder.           http://abclocal.go.com/kfsn/story?section=news/local&id=7093550      14 year old Fresno boy murdered 4 year old neighbor boy  ::MonkeyNoNo::

Technically, anime is animated manga. Manga is the cartoon books. Anime is the cartoon movie. All are characterized by similarly drawn characters with the big eyes. The most widely known is the Pokeman series. Not all is evil but it tends to lean towards the sexual and violent with women often being portrayed as helpless and victims.

Thanks, now Pokeman I have heard, I'm sure everyone has heard that, for awhile there that was very popular.

  ::MonkeyNoNo::  ::MonkeyWaa::

 In looking at Smooth's friends she has many form differetn parts of WA. I think she DID live in Mo near AB, but recently moved. Most of Smooths Criminal friends are from Wa. Smooth has a photo album about "moving". She may not actually live in Forks though, ALOT of her friends on MS live in Lacy Wa.

 I had this convo with my kids princepal when they were in prek and 2nd grade(they are not 16 and 18). It was obvious to me even back then it was going to he77 quickly. Kids were not punished, and parents blamed the school when kids misbehaved. I am not sure where so many parents came up with the theory the world owes thier little precious one something. Olzz dont get me wrong I love my children dearly, but I also know they are FAR from perfect. I beleive disciplining them is what is best for them to learn and know to face consquences of their action. I also learned mine were very little, never to say "my kids wouldnt do that" Everything I thought my kids would "never" do,  is exactly what they did (maybe just to prove me worng..lol)
BUT I think the difference in kids and young adults that are good functioning members of society and those that arent is being raised to face the consquences, and have never had any, think anything and everything id A-OKAY. We also are beginning to see a world where too many believe "what ever feels good is ok". Very few think of what their actions may cause to another person.  I have had kids hang out with my son and convince him to curve in his own arm(like a tatoo), my son tried blame the friend, Nope it didnt work. I do not believe for a minute that my ds would haev come up with it on his own, but I also KNOW he knew better. I can go on with stories of things I have seen in kids that ran around with mine. The one positive thing I saw though IS, most of my kids friends that had NO homelife, for one reason or another, WANTED to be at our house, where I was home and I did things with the kids and their friends(even if it was as simple as watching movies) They also followed and respected my rules for the most part(those that didnt, didnt last long). I learned long ago, kids want rules, they want restrictions even as they are trying to fight them and figure out a way around them..they want them.

Thanks

 Read this post on IS....
This is what I heard from one of the Juvenile workers working with AB:
This person said that because of AB’s mental state, they want to, and I guess will be pushing for her to be tried as a juvenile. This person said that the only reason that they would try her as an adult is because of public outrage if they didn’t.

My thought here is if she had enough mental capacity to plan out such a gruesome crime then she should be tried as an adult. If she is tried as a juvenile, she’s free at 21. What kind of a statement is that sending to our kids??? And, if the reports are in fact true that the grandparents had no idea that she was capable of doing this, but the kids close to her at school say they are not surprised, it seems to me that she knew what act to put on around her grandparents but was herself around her friends. I’m thinking that she is a very smart, manipulative girl and who’s to say that she is not acting around the juvenile authorities.

Thoughts from anyone????

This from another poster
AB's BF is still in police custody for the threats he was making in/at school. I gotta believe that if he were actually involved in the murder he would have been charged already.

Rumors of a target list are floating around...that Elizabeth was a "practice kill".

And this...

My understanding is that strangulation could have been the cause with a knife being used for postmortem mutilation of the body.
.
The word around the court house is that it was a “thrill kill”. She wanted to know what it was like to kill someone, however, I have heard that she had a list of people she wanted to kill and Elizabeth was her “practice run”.

As for accomplices, none reported yet. I do believe they have questioned her boyfriend and searched his house but as of now, now arrest. It has been said that the boyfriend was with her on Thursday after Elizabeth went missing and has said that AB was acting normal. It has also been said that he was threatening to kill anyone at school that said something bad about her. It is said that he is still in custody for the threats.
All this info from pretty good sources

 
And now my question for the day.....

 Do you all think LE have seen the MS for AB's friend that is disturbing us so...Would it be worth the effort to call the tips line(if there is one) and point it out.. I kinda feel silly even asking, but it is disturbing me. I have even showed it to friends without giving any real background, just the facts of the case and without my saying what I thought it meant, they read it the same way. Even if it doesnt mean what we are reading it to mean.. someone NEEDS to reach this girl, before she is our next AB!!! I mean we are pretty sure AB is a sociapath, who knows what she has filled this girls head with..or WORSE What if it was this girl putting stuff in AB's head!!?!?!?

   great ::MonkeySlide::

I hope they have seen it anyway!  AB's friend on ms is very hard to just dismiss, especially when she changes her photo captions everyday and they just keep getting worse and worse!  It almost seems like she is trying to implicate herself in all this mess!  I don't understand teenagers at all!  I have five children and it really scares me that I may have this to look forward too!  I can only hope I have instilled good moral values in them and that my children have more compassion for their fellow man!

edie

Usedindustrial

04:05 PMOct 29 2009

I am from the Jefferson City area. The sad part is all these children were in the custody of the Missouri division of family services. They were placed back in the home by youth services and the department of social services. The state had custody and knew the 15 year old was suicidal and homocidal. Now they are trying to keep that quiet. The 15 year old was talken after her arrest to Fulton state hospital and locked up on an adult ward (against the law in Mo.) before being transfered to a jail. The responsibility for this is the states but you probably won't hear that. I wish I could find out how to get ahold of a good news group or Nancy Grace and drop this bombshell on them. After her arrest they removed all the other kids in the home to insure that they wouldn't get the chance to tell. My phone # is 573-257-3443 if someone knows how to get ahold of Nancy Grace or someone to get the truth out.

urn:x-aol:oid:mddn:6343c24e-c4c6-11de-a501-ab30e154f454 AVG RATING: (2)


http://news.aol.com/article/15-year-old-girl-held-in-slaying-of/734317 (http://news.aol.com/article/15-year-old-girl-held-in-slaying-of/734317)


Oh and Txsflame, Having worked a tipline before, I can tell you that tips are taken seriously. You seem the type of person that wouldn't be able to rest unless you get the info off your chest. I think you'd feel a lot better because it seems to be weighing on you.

Thank-you and thank-you Txsflame for this info.  And why didn't the state do something about AB if they knew this? Oh, I know, not enough money, not enough manpower, and not enough people who care, same ole, same ole  ::MonkeyNoNo::

Sorry HH, I thought it was you that said that. I haven't even read back who it was. I just saw you remark. I'm sorry again, somehow I thought it was you. Maybe old timers has really kicked in.   ::MonkeyNoNo::

Good Afternoon Monkeys and Guest!

For any of the locals here on the forum....do you know of any parents who had kids in the daycare center that this grandma ran? Were there any problems there? Why did it close down? When did it close down?

Can you imagine the horror those parents had when they heard this after leaving their babies there around this girl?

And why in he?? would the state... knowing about this girl...give the grandmother a license to run a daycare ?

This is the very reason I wanted to be able to talk about the Grandparents and other adults surrounding Allysa. By the time her hearing comes along Nov 18, all this information will be swept away.  ::MonkeyMad::

Good for you JILL. I know that is a load off your mind.  ::MonkeyCheer2::

Fanny there is no reason you can't go ahead and collect the info and just hang on to it before it it taken down...I already have some.

I don't know if it is such a good idea. Too many lives of all ages are lost to suicide every year. Maybe if it wasn't
covered up all the time, people would realize how prevalent the problem really was. Maybe people would pay closer attention to warning signs. So many people seem to think it 'rarely' happens-it's not true.

A poster here said they read that someone wrote 'she used to be a cutter, but it was a phase...as if that was ok' or something to that effect-i did not read that the poster said that at all. Cutting is not a phase-it is a serious problem.
I think there are 2 types of cutters-the ones who really have a problem, and the ones just looking for attention. A
real cutter takes great pains to cover up what they have done because they are ashamed. They would rather die
than let anyone see it. I know this because I used to do it. Then there are other kids who blatantly cut themselves as some sort of 'banner'-they have a whole other set of problems-some I understand, others I don't.

The majority of teenagers are not 'Emo', but they stand out from the crowd and get so much attention that it just seems that way. And alot of the DO have a reason to be depressed and dark-alcoholic or abusive parents, sexual
abuse, violent home lives, addictions in the family, this girl's parents were both in prison. So were Elizabeth's.

I'm no expert on any of this. But I see the shows that were popular when my dad was a kid-like Gunsmoke, etc, they were pretty violent. I don't think that show was ever blamed for any kids going out and shooting people.

The huge difference between today and when I, and my parents were kids, that I can see is that no parents are ever home. When I was a kid everyone's mom was at home and we were all outside playing. Today I drive by
neighborhoods and there are no kids to be seen. All the kids are in daycare, both parents are working. Everyone has at least 2 cars, they go on expensive vacations-this stuff just didn't happen when I was a kid. I didn't know one family who had 2 cars to pay for! It seems like today adults are putting their values on the wrong things and children just don't come first.

I'm not saying it's wrong to have both parents working-because it certainly isn't. But if you are just out working for
material things-and plenty of people are-I just wonder if that's in the best interest of the kids.

Sorry for the rant. But a huge part of our society just doesn't seem to care about kids. My community cut tons of special-needs funds for the schools so they could put in fancy brick sidewalks downtown. I doubt mine is the only town with that mind-set.

I know, but it is still frustrating.  ::MonkeyNoNo::

I'm actually thinking that is WHY the daycare shut down. Cause maybe the license was pulled due to what was going on with the state. Is there anyway to look that up?

espresso.. i found this info for nancy grace not sure if it will help or not but i hope so.

Nancy Grace's TV production:
Court TV
600 Third Avenue
2nd Floor
New York, NY 10016
Phone: 212-973-2800

to call her while her show is on the number is 1-877-NANCY-01

 

thats really sad about that 4 yr old being murdered by that 14 yr old.. where the heck are these parents? i mean esp the 4 yr old.. i have a 4 yr old and i know where she is at ALL times heck i even know where my 17 yr old is at all times.

shelby very good post. There has been many movies, tv shows through the years that were violent, there are people that think The Three Stooges are violent, I never looked at it that way. But my point is, a good percentage of people can watch violence whether it is in a horror movie, a war movie, a cowboy and Indian movie, etc. or play a violent video game, and they go about their lives without it causing them to do any act of violence. But if someone is off mentally, a violent movie, video game, lyrics to a song can set that person off. I certainly think watching violence and playing violent video games all the time is not healthy, but I would have no idea what percentage of people that have commited violent crimes, got a very steady diet of that. And I for one do not think cutting isn't that big of a deal or a phase, whether it is done for attention or for more serious mental health issues. I think it is a terrible problem, a problem that should never go without help.

Don't mean to post and run, just wanted to say have a nice Sunday afternoon. I am going out for a while. Catch you guys later!

I agree, the person must be mentally ill to be so influenced-and it's scary because we can't tell who is mentally ill sometimes, and just what will be 'the last straw' for that person.
Sometimes, 'evil don't look like anything'.
But seems like in this case, it did.

Does anyone know the name of the Day care? I did a search of for them in the area, could not find anything in the
exact area where she was found though. Would it be on Loma Dr.? And owned by B?

IMHO I think  big difference in us watching 3 Stooges, and the old Westerns etc...IS Back in the day, most identified with the "good guys". We wanted to BE the good guy(or gal). Somewhere down through time kids have started identifying with the villian and wanting to be the "bad" guy??

Have a great day, I have to go in awhile to the store also.  ::MonkeyCool::

Yes, you are right  ::MonkeyNoNo::

shelby... the child care is listed on here under home child care http://www.kidzschoolfinder.com/Jeffersoncitymopreschools.htm

This is so true.

The reason being, the villian/bad guy/thug/slore is glorified in movies today. That is probably why I don't watch TV or have seen a new movie in ages. JMO JSM

 ::MonkeyBike:: BTL

Bad guy = power.

Thanks!

At the above link to AOL news, I found this post:

 Dolphingem70

04:10 PMOct 29 2009

Usedindustrial..... NANCY GRACE is on every night, she has an email address, and there is a 888 number you can call to reach her...... What the hell is the matter with these people.... IS the news article true of what I read that she cut the girls throat and sexually assulted her with a stick??? Did the teacher that commited suicide really know what was going on? Was Elizabeth killed in these peoples home?


I don't know the news article that Dolphingem70 is referring to, just posting here what I read. The word sick doesn't even do this statement justice.

your very welcome  ::MonkeyWink::

Perhaps another link that may give us some information soon...

http://www.topix.com/forum/city/jefferson-city-mo/THC8D8OQQFKLEVVVI

I wish they would release some truth and put an end to the rumours!  If this is true, they need to tell us, but if it's not, they for sure need to tell us that, too!

her friend's myspace is really creeping me out.

wow her pic comments get stranger as the days go by http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewPicture&friendID=211959030&albumId=438872

Could be she is deliberately just trying to upset people, she knows people are looking at her myspace and she is doing this for a reaction, or she is like her friend AB.

Anyone know where the outrage needs to be directed at to ensure she gets tried as an adult?  I am up to dish out a big can of outrage right now.

I think it may be for attention, either way it's disturbing she can treat such a horrible crime so lightly with all of her comment about how she luvs AB etc... Did you notice her list of heroes?


Whether it's for attention, or her feelings are real, or it' just a FU to anyone reading, it's disturbing.

A lot of the comments up until today were song lyrics.   I agree with No Rose, she knows people are looking at her site and is doing it knowing it will create a reaction.  If she has any adults in her life I sure hope they pay attention to what she does online in case she really is thinking of being a martyr.

yes rose i think so too.. my initial reaction was its to get more attention but i only hope thats all it is and that is as far as she plans on going to get that attention. Maybe she feels left out or something i just dont know, i suppose anything could be going through her mind.

she is a very disturbed individual...I hope her parents realize this.

what is this picture of? i tried to figure it out but cant http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=211959030&albumID=438872&imageID=22840061

You can make out an arm and hand holding a video camera up to her face and you can see her hair. Behind her looks like a parking lot to me. It's hard to tell, but it looks like water closer to her. The rest is very distorted, and I don't know why unless it is a pic taken in a reflection, maybe by a cell phone. My best guess.

It might be a person taking a picture through a plate glass window, and catching a reflection in the glass...but that's just a guess.

I believe the distorted look of the picture is an intentional artistic effect.

it is a weird looking pic and it dont look like her hair maybe its just a pic off the net or a friend. I just thought maybe someone else could tell what it is.

i lightened it a little and you can see that its the girl (ab's friend) taking a pic of her self in the reflection of a window. she is holding the camera on the side of her face not directly in front of it. I am gonna assume its a store window because there is writing on the window.  the light square on the top left hand of the picture is a window on the other side of the glass across the room.  it looks like there are stars hanging from the ceiling inside the store.  and i think the water people are seeing is actually blacktop with rain on it.  if you look real hard you can see what looks like a curb to the right.

edie

Don't miss the Dana Pretzer show tonight at 9pm ET.  He has a great lineup tonight, IMO:

www.scaredmonkeysradio.com

I'll post a link to the show just prior to 9pm ET:

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub7/Pretzer110109.jpg)

Direct link to the Dana Pretzer show:

http://scaredmonkeysradio.com/radio.m3u

Karen Brooke
Lomo Dr
Jefferson City, Mo
(573) 353-4110

thank you mommytomany i can kind of see it now so it dont look so creepy.. something about the pic was just looking creepy to me. I think it was just the way it looked so distorted and the way the hand is or something. It looks much less creepy now.. thanks

Looks like a maybe a camera?  So possibly she is taking a photo of herself in a mirror?  Or someone took a photo of her taking a photo?

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub7/Picture0001-1.jpg)

no problem!  i am a photographer and sometimes take weird pics and edited them weird ways, so it wasn't to hard to tell what was what once it was lightened a little bit.

I don't know exactly when but I know by the time I was in high school in the mid-ninties it was more cool to be associated with gangs and the violence that goes a long with them.  A lot of teens on the street I live still have that attitude.  As a latchkey kid of the eighties I can say I had the same ideas about gangs and so on.  The "protection" of being in one and the "family" you have were alluring.  I never went down that road, I think circumstances just didn't go that way, because I think if I had had the opportunity I would have done so and probably been one of those teen murderers.  God blessed me to send some good friends who were on the straight and narrow and influenced me to go that way.  I hate to think the circumstances she had and the people she hung around with.  I know she is responsible for what she did, I hate the situation all around.

Also seems like I remeber 'Kounty Kidz' or 'Country Kidz'. The sign has been down for awhile, and can't say when the last time I saw someone dropping or picking up a kid there. The only signs at both places are 'No Trespassing' signs since the event Weds-Friday.

The caption under the pic is song lyrics.  Think it's Nickleback.

It is song lyrics, it's Shinedown the song is called Second Chance

I found this interesting.

 Hi all

 Well I did it, after stewing on it for these two or three days. I called the tip line. (I am also gonna get an email address if I can find it).  Here is a play by play.. I called the # listed in the news article. It was apparently the sheriff offic. The lady there was very polite. I told her (with a lot of stumbling, I stutter when I am nervous) what we have seen and what it said, and told her it was claiming to be ABs friend. I told them there was alot of disturbing stuff, but especially mentioned the Dec 14 post. I mentioned AB name and EO, she did not deny or confirm either. She said I need to send u to a dispatcher to get a detective call you back. Another lady gets on(basically said police dept plz hold) She came back and asked what she could do.. So I once again went over it..When I mentioned AB name she said "mam I do not know who this A***** is you are talking about"..So I back tracked and told her simply there was a girl on myspace claiming to Elizabeths killer best friend..when I put it this way she started listening. She asked me if I could tell where the girl lived, and how long acct had been open. She then got my name and number and said a Det. would call. I came in to the puter to let you know.. and low and behold within 5 minutes a det called me back. So I explained it to him, and he DID take her sign in name and thanked me and stated he  would check it out right now. Oh I hope I did the right thing. I just kept thinking SOMEONE SOMEWHERE needs to know about this.

 I do HOPE it is only a little girl looking for attention..but after all the reading I have done on AB, I just couldnt see taking a chance. If this girl really is AB best friend, and it is apparent she is already depressed, I can only imagine what she maybe capable of.

I think it's good that you reported it, the Myspace page could mean nothing more than a girl looking for attention, but it could be more than that.

Txsflame~ Please email me: XXXXXXX@gmail.com Edit to remove email addy.  MB

I did!!!